CFB51 College Football Fan Community

The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2020, 10:19:36 AM

Title: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2020, 10:19:36 AM

... we're supposed to get our decks tiled this week, starting today.  Hopefully.  The wife has wanted this for two years now.  The deck surfaces are raw concrete, somewhat discolored in spots by rust.  I hope it looks better, the estimate came in under what I expected.

Cool crisp fall day here.  Nothing notable to report, but I see a lot of campaign signs dotted about so I infer we have an election shortly.  We have two Senate races this year, and one is likely to have a runoff.

Can you imagine if that seat is the pivotal seat for control?  The money spent here will prop up the economy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 02, 2020, 10:53:50 AM

oughta charge the campaigns triple for every mailing through the USPS and quadrupole for every text message sent

maybe we wouldn't get as many - it's silly

TV and radio ADs???  Triple the $$$

prop up the economy  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2020, 10:56:47 AM

I have to believe ad costs go up due to supply and demand.  The wife turns on local news at times and it's 90% political ads.  That second Senate race is destined for a run off and COULD be the pivotal vote for Senate control.  I may move.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 02, 2020, 11:03:16 AM

EVANSTON, Ill. – A demonstration Saturday by Northwestern University students ended as a violent protest with property damage, police said.

The protest was started by approximately 150 students who are demanding the university abolish its police department, part of a group called ‘NU Community Not Cops.’ A statement from Northwestern University Graduate Workers (NUGW) said two members were pepper-sprayed during the protests.

The statement said Evanston police arrived to the protests in riot gear with K-9 units, aided by the Northern Illinois Police Alarm System, who are trained in ‘tactical crowd control.’ NUGW alleges the environment facilitated violence.

Police said protesters threw bricks at Evanston police officers, shined high-powered lasers into their eyes and threw fireworks at officers.

Police Chief Demetrius Cook spoke out Sunday, saying the protesters turned to violence.

“We allowed them to do peaceful assembly and we would have let it ride until they turned to violence with bricks,” Cook said.

In response, police said they deployed pepper spray and arrested one Northwestern student.

The student was released from Evanston police custody early Sunday, the university said.

A statement from NUGW reads:

“We unequivocally condemn the police brutality on display last night. Last night proved once again that it is heavily armed, militarized police who create and escalate violence. As NU Community not Cops has long argued, and as we unfortunately saw on display last evening, the police do not, and never will, keep us safe.”

The statement also criticized an e-mail from Northwestern President Morton Schapiro sent to the campus community on October 19, which the organization said warned students ‘who violate rules and laws’ that he was ‘making it abundantly clear that you will be held accountable.’

The organization said members reported an increase in police aggression and repeated attempts by police to provoke the protesters in the days following the e-mail, and called for Schapiro’s immediate resignation.

Evanston Mayor Stephen Hagerty penned a letter to the President of Northwestern University, saying that residents do not support protesters throwing objects at police officers and damaging property.

Hagerty also said he expects the university to cover the cost for city officers responding to a month-long series of anti-police protests, mostly led by students.

Northwestern issued the following statement.

“As we have stated before, Northwestern strongly supports the free expression of ideas and vigorous debate, abiding principles that are fundamental to our University. Northwestern protects the right to protest, but we do not condone breaking the law. Should members of the Northwestern community be found in violation of University policies, state or federal laws, they will be held accountable through our processes.”


https://wgntv.com/news/northwestern-students-clash-with-police-in-evanston/?fbclid=IwAR0eobgrnv3OlAfV7lMrgdd-rkLsCmarFp_BT4o-6Aa8RUq_8Oo4rZ2tVPk (https://wgntv.com/news/northwestern-students-clash-with-police-in-evanston/?fbclid=IwAR0eobgrnv3OlAfV7lMrgdd-rkLsCmarFp_BT4o-6Aa8RUq_8Oo4rZ2tVPk)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 02, 2020, 11:09:23 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 02, 2020, 10:53:50 AM

oughta charge the campaigns triple for every mailing through the USPS and quadrupole for every text message sent

maybe we wouldn't get as many - it's silly

TV and radio ADs???  Triple the $$$

prop up the economy 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2020, 11:09:35 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 02, 2020, 10:56:47 AM

I have to believe ad costs go up due to supply and demand.  The wife turns on local news at times and it's 90% political ads.  That second Senate race is destined for a run off and COULD be the pivotal vote for Senate control.  I may move.

Maybe vote instead?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2020, 11:13:28 AM

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34536259/2022-cadillac-v-series-blackwing-magnesium-wheels/?utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&fbclid=IwAR2YUmLigAaPTqIv9h2OfgPYxJ2sRqZKd5PxoGSC5q4DQwNy9Pd-ab_vfB4

Mag wheels, on a Caddy.

I have an interest in "tanks", armored fighting vehicles etc.  I mentioned elsewhere that the Czechs had some good tanks in 1939, in fact the Germans used them liberally in their Panzer divisions (Panzer means tank, just as does Char in French, like chariot).  The Czechs also had some formidable defensive fortifications on the German border, think mini-Maginot Line that would have given the Germans problems.

The French wanted no part of war with Germany and bailed leaving Chamberlain to try and make the best of a bad deal as there was no way for the UK to go to war without France.  Had they stayed out of it, the Czechs might have given the Germans a bloody nose.  Instead, part of the country was ceded, and then later the rest was grabbed along with considerably tank making industry and design.

The Czech chassis later were used to make tank destroyers where the tanks themselves were judged too lightly armored.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 02, 2020, 11:13:45 AM

* Given all the pandemic weirdness, Moos and his chief security man, retired New York City cop Patrick Kelly, likely won't be able to visit their favorite hot dog stop in the Big Ten. That would be Mustard's Last Stand in Evanston, where they devoured Chicago-style dogs in 2018.

They take this stuff seriously. At the end of each season, they rank the best hot dog at each conference road game. In 2019, the winner — "hands down," according to Moos — was a hot dog stand at Maryland.

"Best brat in town," the stand worker told Moos.

But it's hard to top Mustard's Last Stand.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 02, 2020, 11:19:40 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 02, 2020, 11:09:23 AM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window

I'm not saying these boosters of political influence should spend their money on new shoes or a new book for their library.

I'm saying they spend the same amount of money on the influence of an election, but we the people get fewer pieces of mail, fewer ads on the TV and radio, and fewer text messages to delete. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 02, 2020, 11:20:00 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 02, 2020, 11:13:45 AM

But it's hard to top Mustard's Last Stand.

It's hard to top a Chicago dog.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2020, 11:22:10 AM

... you put a pickle on it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2020, 11:31:34 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 02, 2020, 11:22:10 AM

... you put a pickle on it.

Included.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 02, 2020, 11:50:31 AM

There have been numerous mentions how Nebraska’s marriage to the Big Ten is on the rocks, that it’s hit a “rough patch”, and may even be over.

Nebraska’s Marriage To The Big Ten Has Never Been Better


Nebraska’s Marriage To The Big Ten Has Never Been Better - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVD87OoQKdE&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR0c1_NNWw-lKTF2Nb-jTJ6Cr9c2mXv3IPrCi199aluq36dpQTS8Mc0gTcM)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2020, 12:15:12 PM

https://geneandjudes.com/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 02, 2020, 12:19:50 PM

No Ketchup

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2020, 12:30:02 PM

Never.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2020, 12:39:26 PM

A plain hotdog with mustard can be a fine thing.  The red sauce, never ever.

I like chopped onions and sauerkraut and maybe jalapenoes at times.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 02, 2020, 12:42:27 PM

A hot dog with slaw, onions, mustard, and hot sauce is a hell of a thing.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 02, 2020, 12:43:22 PM

I loathe pickles and pickle relish, those will never visit a hot dog of mine (or any other food item).

Mustard, for sure.  And no ketchup, obviously.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2020, 12:45:49 PM

I like mine the way the come at G&J.

Mustard, relish, onion, sport peppers. They come topped with fries, which are phenomenal. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 02, 2020, 01:08:35 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 02, 2020, 12:43:22 PM

I loathe pickles and pickle relish, those will never visit a hot dog of mine (or any other food item).

Mustard, for sure.  And no ketchup, obviously.

You're missing out. Pickles are delicious.

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2020, 12:45:49 PM

I like mine the way the come at G&J.

Mustard, relish, onion, sport peppers. They come topped with fries, which are phenomenal.

I've never understood the allure of putting fries on a sandwich like those weirdoes in Pittsburgh or topping something like a hot dog with fries. I've never been in a situation where it actually improved the sandwich. 

Had some delicious carne asada fries at the brewery on Saturday, though. Damn fine plate of food. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 02, 2020, 01:10:20 PM

pickles and fries on the side

pickle relish?  terrible

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2020, 01:25:11 PM

The tile guys are here now, I went to get a Willy Philly and they were out of tortillos, and crowded.  So I got a bowl, tasty.

We have a plumber coming later and already had an electrician here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 02, 2020, 01:46:25 PM

Pickles are disgusting.  Not missing out at all.  Gag.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 02, 2020, 01:49:39 PM

Pickle relish is okay on it's own. There's a burger place in Seattle that uses it on a burger and it's not too bad. But it's NOT sweet relish, which is the trash that takes up space in the condiment bar.

Hot dogs and brats are great with brown mustard and raw onions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 02, 2020, 02:17:28 PM

have you ever met a hot dog or brat you didn't like?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 02, 2020, 02:55:10 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 02, 2020, 02:17:28 PM

have you ever met a hot dog or brat you didn't like?

I tried one that had gummy bears as part of the filling. Hard pass.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 02, 2020, 02:59:52 PM

I think the fries over the dog are more about wrapping the fries w the dog in one package than it is fries 'on' the dog.. . Like the weirdos in Pittsburgh. 

At least that's how I've interpreted, received and consumed the Chicago style dogs in my days in either No Ill or in SE Wisconsin. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2020, 03:12:39 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on November 02, 2020, 02:59:52 PM

I think the fries over the dog are more about wrapping the fries w the dog in one package than it is fries 'on' the dog.. . Like the weirdos in Pittsburgh.

At least that's how I've interpreted, received and consumed the Chicago style dogs in my days in either No Ill or in SE Wisconsin.

Correct, but I always leave a couple on when I'm eating.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 02, 2020, 03:42:59 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on November 02, 2020, 02:59:52 PM

I think the fries over the dog are more about wrapping the fries w the dog in one package than it is fries 'on' the dog.. . Like the weirdos in Pittsburgh.

At least that's how I've interpreted, received and consumed the Chicago style dogs in my days in either No Ill or in SE Wisconsin.

Yeah, but why bother wrapping the fries with the dog? Is there some packaging shortage I'm not aware of? 

Seems like separate packaging would be the ideal, and then people who want fries on their hot dog have all the freedom in the world to put fries on their hot dog.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 02, 2020, 03:46:42 PM

I've never had fries on a hot dog, but onion rings on a hamburger can be pretty freaking great.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 02, 2020, 03:51:21 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 02, 2020, 03:46:42 PM

I've never had fries on a hot dog, but onion rings on a hamburger can be pretty freaking great.

These are awesome, either on a burger or off it...


https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/ree-drummond/onion-strings-recipe-3381887

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 02, 2020, 03:59:06 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 02, 2020, 02:17:28 PM

have you ever met a hot dog or brat you didn't like?

Brats cooked offset on the grill just so the casing doesn't burst,I use Pepper Ridge Farms sausage rolls with poppy/sesame seeds.Top that with diced raw onion and spicy brown mustard of your choice - thank me later.Wash it down with a sudsy concoction

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2020, 04:25:06 PM

The wife likes the appearance of the tiled deck so far, which is a good thing.

I like the redder sausage hotdog things, not the white ones.  I used to eat Ballpark a lot because I was poor.  Er.

The French don't have hot dogs that I ever saw.  The step grand kids think they are fantastic when they visit.  But they put that red stuff on them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 02, 2020, 05:01:52 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on November 02, 2020, 02:55:10 PM

I tried one that had gummy bears as part of the filling. Hard pass.

well, there you got me.

I wouldn't eat that either

I tried a drink concoction that was nothing more than a cup full of gummy bears covered in vodka

not good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2020, 05:03:52 PM

The French restaurant has a desert called a "Colonel" (pronounced the French way as opposed to "kernel").  It is a sorbet drowned in Grey Goose.

It's quite tasty.  We're going tomorrow for dinner.

The wife and I watched "My Octopus Teacher" and she says I am no longer to eat octopus.  Hrumph.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2020, 05:26:20 PM

I made homemade gyros yesterday. I must say I was very pleased.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 02, 2020, 05:28:45 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2020, 05:26:20 PM

I made homemade gyros yesterday. I must say I was very pleased.

How? Rotisserie or not?


(https://i.imgur.com/N7incaa.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 02, 2020, 05:31:10 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 02, 2020, 05:03:52 PM

The French restaurant has a desert called a "Colonel" (pronounced the French way as opposed to "kernel").  It is a sorbet drowned in Grey Goose.

It's quite tasty.  We're going tomorrow for dinner.

The wife and I watched "My Octopus Teacher" and she says I am no longer to eat octopus.  Hrumph.

Well good lord, don't let her watch Charlotte's Web or you'll never get bacon again!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SFBadger96 on November 02, 2020, 05:36:01 PM

Mmmmm, bacon.

I made fried cut potatoes for the first time yesterday ("French Fries," "Freedom Fries," whatever). They were pretty good. I overcooked them just a tad, but my daughter prefers them that way; my son said they tasted like the ones from Five Guys--and I think he wasn't far off. I didn't think there was enough salt, but SFIrish was happier that way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2020, 06:30:39 PM

In my feeble efforts to fry potatoes back in school, I overloaded the small fryer I had, and the taters cooled off the grease, leading to greasy nasty "fries".

I really should have understood heat capacity better than that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2020, 06:31:53 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 02, 2020, 05:31:10 PM

Well good lord, don't let her watch Charlotte's Web or you'll never get bacon again!

She really likes bacon, so they helps, and her daughter's name is Charlotte, pronounced slightly differently.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 02, 2020, 06:43:09 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2020, 05:26:20 PM

I made homemade gyros yesterday. I must say I was very pleased.

Yeah what kind of meat did you use?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 02, 2020, 09:57:34 PM

More importantly,  how do you make your tzatziki sauce.

The meat while important, yes,  can't make it a gyro, not wo excellent pita, or tzatziki.   Of course I love some red onion and tomatoes too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 02, 2020, 10:00:56 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 02, 2020, 03:42:59 PM

Yeah, but why bother wrapping the fries with the dog? Is there some packaging shortage I'm not aware of?

Seems like separate packaging would be the ideal, and then people who want fries on their hot dog have all the freedom in the world to put fries on their hot dog.

Same reason the sandwich was invented.  It's portable, on the go, a nod to tradition.  Frankly I like the portion of fries, not too many, just enough.

Nothing says you can't place an order for more fries. 
As my brother said as a teenager,  every place is all you can eat, they aren't going to stop you from ordering more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 03, 2020, 12:26:00 AM

It's a gimmick. Nothing more. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2020, 07:04:54 AM

The meat was a leg of lamb that I ground and then made into a paste in the food processer with all of the other spices and onions and garlic.

I baked it in a loaf pan in the toaster oven as we do not have a complete kitchen yet. That will be this week, I hope.

For the sauce, I strained the yogurt and cucumber. Added some salt, garlic, olive oil and red wine vinegar.

The pita was from a farmer's market.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 03, 2020, 07:06:06 AM

I wish I had that  much time on my hands.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2020, 07:27:20 AM

About 30 minutes of active. If you can't find that, you need a time manager.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2020, 07:43:39 AM

WTF is wrong with kids these days?


https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/evanston/ct-evr-community-response-northwestern-protests-tl-1105-20201103-wyhmlrwfavfmblekffrfzao5au-story.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2020, 07:53:23 AM

I just read in the Chicago paper that businesses there and across the country have boarded up their windows in advance of the election results.

Given that the former VP (ehh, current senator) is favored to win, nothing bad is going to happen as a result. 

If somehow the POTUS wins again, cities burn.

Glad to be living in a bubble right now, behind walls and gated.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 08:28:36 AM

I see no such preparations around here.  Back when there were protests about police shootings, one bank near us partly boarded up their large plate glass windows.  

I saw personally two "protests" that were not violent, rather noisy for a minute or two.

I think this city will stay mostly calm.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 08:30:04 AM

In other news, I overheard two folks talking about not understanding why the one who wins the popular vote is not President.  Neither of them said "electoral college", they just did not appear to understand the System.  They weren't saying it should change, they just didn't understand it, probably 28 years old or so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2020, 08:42:33 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 08:30:04 AM

In other news, I overheard two folks talking about not understanding why the one who wins the popular vote is not President.  Neither of them said "electoral college", they just did not appear to understand the System.  They weren't saying it should change, they just didn't understand it, probably 28 years old or so.

That's grade school education stuff. At least it was when I was coming up. Perhaps things changed (duh).

And these kids are gonna vote today. Jeez.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 03, 2020, 09:00:44 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2020, 07:53:23 AM

I just read in the Chicago paper that businesses there and across the country have boarded up their windows in advance of the election results.

Given that the former VP (ehh, current senator) is favored to win, nothing bad is going to happen as a result.

If somehow the POTUS wins again, cities burn.

Glad to be living in a bubble right now, behind walls and gated.

I worry that when POTUS loses, he's going to incite his fans via tweet to cause mayhem. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 09:05:47 AM

We found out last time, again, how many folks did not understand the EC and that the real vote is December 14.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 03, 2020, 09:13:40 AM

To be fair, it is a stupid system. Most people want to believe we have smart systems, so they assume competence where none exists.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 09:17:10 AM

Gorgeous weather here again, blue skies, 47°F at the moment.  The tile laying folks should be back soon, they can't start until 9:30 (building rules).  They laid about 20 sq ft yesterday, they started late.  The wife likes it.  I like it.  The decks are about 140 sq ft.

We noticed the newer fancier buildings have narrower decks, which makes sense as you "sell" interior space.

I get tired of hearing the term "open concept" on HGTV as if someone wants to rehab that is NOT OC.  Duh.

I dislike the term "en suite" as well, it's a bathroom.

You really need two sinks in the master bath unless you live alone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2020, 09:51:42 AM

We opened up the house here. Took out the kitchen wall and now we have one big room, for cooking, dining and TV watching/sitting.

It's 66 right now, with low humidity. The high will be about 80. This is why I moved here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 10:05:41 AM

I do like to have seasons, just not a miserable one.  

The tile guys say they will be done by tomorrow.  We lived for months during the kitchen redo that was rather painful, this is a walk in the park.

Which we will do in a bit.  It's 52°F now.

My step son got me an Apple watch and iPhone for my BDay.  It's a nice watch, but has some function that periodically tells me to breathe.  I can't turn that off apparently.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2020, 10:07:22 AM

Fingers crossed that this will be the final week of reno here. Then we just have random things that we will mostly self-perform, along with punch lists.

Grout in the kitchen today. Finish work in the master. Master should be complete today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 10:17:11 AM

We did a kitchen in the house about 5 years ago.  The wife got really really stressed (I didn't).  It took three months mostly because they ordered the wrong island top.

This one lasted nearly 3 months mostly because the electrician added some strip outlets after the backsplash boys had measured, so the backsplash had to be remeasured and recut.  There was so much reno work going on in the city everything was backed up.

Little things cause delays.  

I thought the kitchen was OK when we bought the unit.  We did fatten up the cabinets which helps a lot in a smallish kitchen.

The brand new condos being built have some nice kitchens in them appearancewise anyway, because of course that sells.


(https://i.imgur.com/Gw63b5x.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 03, 2020, 10:26:14 AM

Beauty of a day in Columbus too. Started out cold but already warming up, a high around 60. We are going to do a renovation at some point. Not sure how extensive. We have a big sun room and I'd like to convert it to a big living room.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 03, 2020, 10:59:15 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 03, 2020, 09:13:40 AM

To be fair, it is a stupid system. Most people want to believe we have smart systems, so they assume competence where none exists.

It's an antiquated system, based on a country that bears little resemblance to today. It was back when state borders were more than merely lines on a map. I wouldn't call it a "stupid" system though.

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 10:17:11 AM

We did a kitchen in the house about 5 years ago.  The wife got really really stressed (I didn't).  It took three months mostly because they ordered the wrong island top.

This one lasted nearly 3 months mostly because the electrician added some strip outlets after the backsplash boys had measured, so the backsplash had to be remeasured and recut.  There was so much reno work going on in the city everything was backed up.

Little things cause delays. 

I thought the kitchen was OK when we bought the unit.  We did fatten up the cabinets which helps a lot in a smallish kitchen.

The brand new condos being built have some nice kitchens in them appearancewise anyway, because of course that sells.


(https://i.imgur.com/Gw63b5x.png)

That's a nice looking kitchen, CDawg.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SFBadger96 on November 03, 2020, 11:35:24 AM

16-year old daughter cut 13-year old son's hair last night, mostly because son doesn't trust mom anymore to have modern style.

I had to leave in the middle of it, and SFIrish was on a business call, so I was a little worried that I'd come home to a Sweeney Todd situation. Fortunately, it went quite well. The boy's hair is still way too long for my taste (and definitely SFIrish's), but at least it's cleaned up, and "fashionable" by his (and the daughter's) standards.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 03, 2020, 11:52:51 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2020, 07:43:39 AM

WTF is wrong with kids these days?


https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/evanston/ct-evr-community-response-northwestern-protests-tl-1105-20201103-wyhmlrwfavfmblekffrfzao5au-story.html

Too many have been raised to believe they are special and deserve all of the attention they can get. Probably a bunch of participation trophy recipients. 

As to the point of the article, perhaps instead of charging the University for the additional law enforcement expenses, they should charge the parents of these entitled brats. That would get their attention. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 03, 2020, 11:54:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 08:30:04 AM

In other news, I overheard two folks talking about not understanding why the one who wins the popular vote is not President.  Neither of them said "electoral college", they just did not appear to understand the System.  They weren't saying it should change, they just didn't understand it, probably 28 years old or so.

Yet another indictment of our publicly funded, educational system. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 03, 2020, 11:55:11 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 03, 2020, 09:00:44 AM

I worry that when POTUS loses, he's going to incite his fans via tweet to cause mayhem.

And past experience would indicate that you have nothing to worry about. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 03, 2020, 12:01:05 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 03, 2020, 09:00:44 AM

I worry that when POTUS loses, he's going to incite his fans via tweet to cause mayhem.

Based on what?  If your going to make a very stupid, POLITICAL statement like that ( which you should not be doing here), at least have it based in reality.

The people who are boarding up their businesses are not worried about a trump loss. They have seen with her own eyes who is planning the destruction and have already seen some of those plans which have been leaked. It is not Trump supporters and you know that.

When you have Democratic senators, and the Attorney General of the state of Pennsylvania saying things like “the only way Biden can lose is by voter suppression” or “we already know when the votes are counted that the Democrats will win Pennsylvania”, Those are louder than dog whistle’s but open calls for violence and protesting should trump happen to win.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2020, 12:01:48 PM

payback for the cold a snow a couple weeks ago...

59 degrees here headed to a high of 73.  Light breeze, full sun.

The boss is taking the entire office out to lunch at the only decent seafood place in the area.  Then the afternoon off.  It's a good election day.  Likely to break the high temp for election day set in 1934.

Of course, I'm headed to the golf course after lunch to play 9 or a few more holes before dark.

I was the first to vote at 7am in my district.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2020, 12:06:28 PM

not worried about riots here in rural NW Iowa

I little worried about the poll workers.  One lady had to be late 80's or more likely early 90s.  She was wearing a mask and had a plexiglass barrier, but handing out papers to sign all day to everyone coming through the line sitting inside at a table.

I'm not sure if masks are required to vote.  Didn't see a sign.  I wore a mask and everyone else at 7am had a mask, but..........

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 03, 2020, 12:06:37 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 03, 2020, 12:01:05 PM

Based on what?  If your going to make a very stupid, POLITICAL statement like that ( which you should not be doing here), at least have it based in reality.

The people who are boarding up their businesses are not worried about a trump loss. They have seen with her own eyes who is planning the destruction and have already seen some of those plans which have been leaked. It is not Trump supporters and you know that.

When you have Democratic senators, and the Attorney General of the state of Pennsylvania saying things like “the only way Biden can lose is by voter suppression” or “we already know when the votes are counted that the Democrats will win Pennsylvania”, Those are louder than dog whistle’s but open calls for violence and protesting should trump happen to win.

well put HB

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 03, 2020, 12:08:54 PM

I have my baseball bat ready

as soon as Biden wins Im going to smash my neighbors car window

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2020, 12:10:13 PM

does the car window have a Biden sticker on it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 03, 2020, 12:11:07 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 03, 2020, 12:10:13 PM

does the car window have a Biden sticker on it?

Nope but that doesnt seem to matter now days

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 03, 2020, 12:13:02 PM

To clarify, political talk on this thread hasn't been disallowed.  The only one I care about is the Coronavirus thread.

I think it's a bad idea to talk politics on any of the football board threads, since there's an entire Forum on this message board dedicated to politics, but that bit is up to you all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2020, 12:15:01 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 03, 2020, 12:11:07 PM

Nope but that doesnt seem to matter now days

(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdata%3Aimage%2Fjpeg%3Bbase64%2C%2F9j%2F4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD%2F2wCEAAkGBxITEhUTEhMWFhUWFxoXFxgVFxgaFxoYGBgXGhgXGBgdHSggGBonGxcVITEiJSkrLi4uFx8zODMtNygtLisBCgoKDg0OGhAQGysfHx8tLS0rLSstLS0rLS0rLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLTctLS0tLS0tLf%2FAABEIALcBFAMBIgACEQEDEQH%2FxAAcAAABBQEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAFAgMEBgcAAQj%2FxABPEAACAQMDAQUFAwYKBgkFAQABAgMABBEFEiExBhNBUWEHInGBkRQysSNCUqHB0RUzNVNicnOSsrMkJXSCtNIWNDZDY6Lh8PEXVJOUwgj%2FxAAZAQADAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQIDBAX%2FxAApEQACAgICAQMEAQUAAAAAAAAAAQIRAyESMUEEIlETMmFxFAUjQlKR%2F9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwDGY4lwDjwrvyfpSgMrj0%2FZX0l7Pu04u9MmuWto0a23xhRghu6hR8k7eMlsUAfNoEfpRi2jsjaSEqPtCuCCZAF2eOE6ua2jsheHU9L1OZLdFluDMiRrg4b7JFGqhiB1IB8OtF%2B1dmqDR1KKGF7CrDA6iCXIPnyKVDTPnm%2Bis1jiaKTe7AmVSpAQ%2BAB%2FO8aYtrZHDFQDsGW5AIGQM4PJGSOlfScGn2za7MXSMyJZQmMFRxmWYOyjz%2B4M%2BvrVE9rmsxtaLb3lqYr8SbonWICIoJSCY5dxyDFtJGeuMgHGFQ7MkdYhwcZpLdz6fQ1s%2FsaiVtJ1AlQT3k2CQCf4hKtnZ0C20uwktLdZYjHG9wI0DSlTCS7ouRvk73bkcnG4Yp0Kz5uxD%2FRr3EP9Gt59l8tndX%2BrSW8W2F%2Fs3uPGFw2yYSDb4ZYMT6mndVso9O0m3EqjbbXse47csYlvGOfM5jwcetFBZgpkgIAOzjxA5PxPjS4oYG6beOtb%2FwBhe2kN%2FfXNvFAncovepKVwzcxrgoV90ZLfQVQfaDqqXs9yp7m3Ni00MaAktcESL190BeI%2FPq1Kh2UWyuoIyxCQPuG38qu4D%2BkvIw3rzUvSo7MZZu7ZlOQrEEMPLafvVuHYrW7TUNQuJIFBRLS3jbdHt9%2FvLhm90jycDPpQTtvoC2nZ66gCD3JzsOBnY14GTn%2BoyinQcjJHis3JMewEe8Q7KAeeijx%2BFMXbW5YkiNT5KuFHyHSvqKTSITbGz7tMm2KfdHTZ3f7arHsRt4zo8G5VJLyjkDP8Y9FByMAkNucD8mMccDH1orqrQSRwhbaGLukwzpnMhwvvvnx4J4%2FSNfQWgaLHbaWICi7o4ZM5AJGTIevxz9KzLR%2Bz%2BmzaVC6TQpeqqP8AlJsAsj7trKTgZAx04zSaDl%2BChQ3eni2kiaANOzhkm3kBFG3K7Mc9G%2BvpXtvPpwt5EeItcFgUlD4RV44KePj9a3qy7WB9FbVDaxhgsjd1wV9yVo8btvjtz0ob2eja%2B0MyRwL3k88soQbeN18zlQxxwFz9KdByMNtZbZckrG2Rj3s8HzHrRmwj0wQlpdm9RuTr7zD81gOoPA%2Bdbj2jtk%2FhjShsXBS9yMDn8nF1pns5YQ%2Fwlq0iRxm4V4lTcB7qG2QrjyVn3Zx12%2BlFCbsrS6Tod%2Fb7rGKASqoZ0VSHUEc%2B6eeD%2BFZLrVpbpI0Y2KUO3g5yc%2BJ8K1LtP2qiFzp%2FfRG1v4iDcM0YSPu2iYSKrhj3kfeY28kevWndMRH7LTO4HvGYs%2BATg3RyQfhUxx8d29iU90Y3bx24b3ypwenOD861XsB2QsnD3NxFEbZEOWf7u448fQZ%2BorR9YuEsoojHaCSxETiUQRB2X%2BL7ohARmMjvNxwfAnAyazSECTTmSLK2l7qqJbx4AKwtKCy4HQcH3fKicHJadFc6VUQO1i6GWc2ncszYVVQEKuB1HmS2apFzYxR47xQuem4YP0r6P9oVnHLp99EiDfHAZMqoyCMuuPHPufrqp9ho1fVomLGQS6SJsuFzueaLPQAcYxRCHFVbFZiu2281rv8ARv6NfUFto0Y1Ca42Jte2gjHujG4ST5%2Bo2fQUL7O2yfwzqo2LgR2eBtGB%2BTk6VVD5Hzni2%2Fo17i2%2Fo1u3Y28ludYuDdWYtitmqKhGdyC4kxKMgYySR%2Fu1Z9P0aNdQup9i7JYbYKcDG4GcMBx5d39aKDl%2BD5gItv6NEtE0JLpsRBcDG5vBQfxPpW%2B9krZDqWrgouBLb490cf6OvSs%2Fjv57m%2Fklubb7JILeNe555Xe5EnIHUkj5UMORDi7I2aAKYg58WbOSfrxXUfkxmvKVkmKRr7q%2FAVtnsbH%2BotQ%2Ftbj%2FAIaKsq1PRJbdLcyAYmgjmjIOco6gjPkRUSC8njVkjnmjRslkjkZUYkAElQcHIAHwFV0NbNc9kF08XZ%2B%2BljO14zcujYBwy26lTg8HBA61b%2B1shYaOzHJa9gJPmTBKTXzdBezxo0cc8qRtnciSMqNuGDuUHByODTzapdNt3XVwdhDJmZzsYDAK8%2B6QCRkUCN61bQorrX23TzQyxWcTxGF1Vj%2BVlD5yDuXlcjGOeaje01ZJNAke%2BjVbhJF29M7hcbEYYyAWi5OP0j06Vhxv7jvBMbiczKMLKZXMgHPAbOQOTx607qOqXNxj7TcTTbeVEkjMAfMAnGeTQOjWPYkP9T6h%2FaTf8OlGfZ5o8traafJZSSzRXHdm5jd0aKMPEzSPGMAoRKAMAnxyM81iOmzzKRHHPNGkjDekcjIrZwDkA4ORxVi1Tv7JALO6uIEY4KRysEz1yBng1m8iTSfk6cPpMmWMpR%2Fx7NhsUSHUNYeHAf7PbSPj%2Bd2XPJHgSAh9c58aFe1zUFuNBE6fdl%2BzyD%2FeZT%2B2sMjuZ0LlLiZTJ%2FGFZXBk6%2FfIPvdT18zTUl3N3YiM0xiGMRGRjGMHIwmcdeauzncWjSvYBOWv5sge7abRgYyO9U5PmeTzVR7RWkr6jf8AdgYF3Nkk4Ge8PFRdFt5VBlSaSEkYJikZGK5zhiPDI6VNsyWyIy7szEl2JJZjyXYnkmk2Ki%2FexIbbi%2FwoUiGDodw3ASZbPqcmrf2gu1vtIt5BjFxLY5HkXuYAwPwJI%2BVZXZaDs94XE0TMMP3MjKX%2FAK2DyOT4eNPR6OqqI0ubtI1IKoszhFIO4ELng7ufjRyQ6NvaaAagFMjfaDbEiPB2d0JRl84xu3EDr08Kq%2Bgt9ksCOgTU2jHh7rah3Y%2BWG%2BlZ%2BmjgnvDdXfe7dolFw%2B8LnO0HOcZ5x0oVrejziMlLu5dA290eZyCQQ2%2Fr94EA58xmjkhUbnd3O6a%2BTwS1iHzYXRP6ttfOz6O1ksH25D3c8Jki7l1J5AKlsjj7w4qJe3V2jEi7uPygwx76TLADADHPvAAkc%2BZpvWNUnue670jEESwxKoOFRfiSSx8STVLYraNX0X%2Fse%2F8AZT%2F8TJU3sHeyQ9mopIm2urNg4BxuvCp4Ix0JHzrFFuZxH3InmEXIMQkcR8nJGzOME5NeJeTrH3S3EyxfzYlcR9d3C5x97n40BZ9I9pP5Y0n%2Bpe%2F5cNALTQhNq%2Bp3Ec80VzAYtixOoV1a3QgSIykOpYEc8cefNYhJql0WV2urgumdjGZyy7sbtpzkZwM464p3TbqfvmmW5nWYjmUSt3hHHBbOSOBwfKnQGt%2B2lDJpNnLcoqXe%2BLKjwZ4yZkHX3cjpk9BUbRP%2ByEmem2XP%2FwCwazi9eaZw9xPLO4%2B6ZXLbc4ztz06eFMNK6oYu%2FmWI5zEJWEZycn3M4680iuLPofsxo8tk9vDbySz2TxSMzSuj90R3ZhEbAA7WBfjkcDGPHLbC1jPab7PFnu47t5goPuKViLvhegIkyKqEWr3cUXdw3twkQGAiTOFA8gM8D0FBraV423xSPG4z76Oyvz194HPNOiXo%2BrEFvLPewq7NKY4lmQj3UV0kEe046sN2eT0HSsc9gmRqbqzEslnJGQc%2B7tuIRgelZ9Hql0rtIt1cB3xvcTOGbaMLubOWwOBnpTNrcyxsXimljcghnjdlYgkEgsDkgkA%2FEUUFn0%2FaaoGgt%2BfvXbQ%2FOKWXPz%2FI1D7N%2FwAtar%2FZ2X%2BXJXzguoXA2gXM42sXXEr%2B67btzrzwx3Nk9fePnU3T7%2Bfc7%2Fa7kSPgMyzOGYKMKGOctjJx5UgWzbuw1jqKapO%2Bours9ttiK7OIkmyFO1QOsh6880c07Vd1vpvj3s3dH4xwXBP64cViUOm3zflPttyGxgEzybtpwcZz0yAcelVyae6iZU%2B0XC92xZAJXAUncCyc%2B6TubkfpHzpJ2Nqj6L7Ifynq%2FwDa2%2F8Aw61nFvDfRXzLqjB7qSAMjKUx3SOw24RQAdxP1qm9mHnlutn2u6Xvcl2SZwzFUO0sc84Axz4Vf9O0gRt3jSzTSbdoeaRnYLnO0E9Bk5olpCJUo5rqccc11SgI3bPRIX0Cyu2yJYbW1VWHirrGNhHl72ax1ZM1e9d7bLcaTaWSxupjSISMcbWESBVxznkgHkcYqjW6jPpWnHQot2xlhSgKlyQAHGOPPNeyW6gAjPNKi%2BJGApYFOiEbc816sfHwpUUkSNKtt8yL5t4%2BnP7KtHam0Bi3fon9RqqWkm11bn3SDx148qNa5raTKFTcOcncMCubLCTmmj2f6fmw48WRT7a%2F6V914poMM0q7Pu%2FOovoeK6Dxskt6Lbolis4Xd9xRkjzOTgVarYLGMRrj1z%2BygPZGTbbcnqx59B0oglxNJkQDavjKf%2F5Hl61DEiXJconMjAZ8zgn4DqaYN8X%2B7HK2PHYVH%2FmNPWdhHEN0hy3i7cn6%2BHNMza5CD7xcfDb%2B01LlRqoIVFcMpy0Eny2n9WeacXUUJwQyZ4w6kbvQHp8qjQa4jqNhJJz7jKdw%2Fu5zUmDUUlG2VlCnPByOnmCAR6YoBxiUrtBFtnZBwF6Z8jzVh9nfYpdQeTfI0aRbc7QCWLZ4BPTp5Gh%2FaSxb3ZB76D3N%2Bc5A5G7xyAcfSldiNamtrsPGMrht6liFIKkc48R4V0Qg5x9pzzddFm7Y%2BywW0DzwTFwmCySAA4zyQ3n04xWZslaN2l7aT3R2HasWOYxyGOepJ5NUG6A3HAwM0scKtXf7JjyauSoiFKl6cvJpjFStP6mqZpHsltQS%2BRidxOQenFHSKQyqygH6etZuVGrjZXgxFTrmxaNwjFdxx0bI56c03qUJDZ8KZ7pm5z9TVW2YONOibq%2BlyW0gjlA3EA%2B6cjB6U1BbbvHAHUmrzfw6M1qzRtcTXJQAFixKuBgZ6Ltz8apxhcLgjBz0qvpzSTl5M4T5Nr4IssGOhyPOinZmAd7uYe6o8emaas7NpPc4Hjk9KJafb90xV8FM5JHj5Cpr5NaDMmqIThWHyqJq1mJkyPvjof2UzdSRt%2FFrtPgcAUiASKclwR481OvBTtdiOzNhJHdRMVxyc8jxUitHQ1QbObEyHP54%2FHFX0GplKwcaEy9a6lNiupokxe2z3a8H7o8PSkQn%2BietXDSF%2FIQ8D%2BLT%2FCKllB5D6Vm89OqOuHpOUU7KdKwycqeletIuF4%2BFW8xjyH0pqbYoywH0oWe%2FBp%2FFryVPI29D1rt64b9dWCW8Qfmr6eteQ3cTHDIFz5gYrXnKvtM1ij%2FsAEZc%2BPSvFYcdat32ZP0V%2BgqLfTQx%2FeUFvAAc1Cy26SKeClbYDjtSRnw9aTKyA8gZ6ZosmpRnnu%2FwzUq3EMoO1VOOoI5FOfJK3FmMYRbpSQ%2Bqp3aoUVUBwrBtpY%2Bbeec1Pt32LtQlfMA8fSm009ZO7OfuH7oGc8%2BPl4VMjYZckDqazTNZxpgy9t5WIIJ58cZ%2FVQW50%2BTPvMf1VZbmcfdPT086FS%2BJPQVDTvQ4pDWg2IEnUnH7x0pvWNLdZj72QcEEjORgda9h1Bose4M%2BLZ5qfJdmUqeOh%2BPwqt0KkRzdyx4izGysgJjkQMM85ZPFT65oTp0%2ByVsHIwRVie3UgFgSTx8h%2BPWo406IdEA%2BtXjzyh2J4OfQKjQkkj8aVqOnKQrQ7mOPymcYB%2Fo0WNknl%2BNK7hR4YHxNOOeKD%2BNOuwAdEk7nv8rtxnGecVGsPGjralDtMYJK9CBnH1ry2tbc%2FcH6zVyya6ZCw77RCUE9KkLpJPOdtEFtFHQY%2BdRptTiU7dxJ%2Fo81lzctRRs8PHcmiLNpkeDnk%2FpZ5quXCdR61cgqMASCM4xk%2BfI6Go8umWw%2B8B9T%2B%2BmpuOmmZyxRktNFb0q7K7hnqKllieSfnRQ6baLyVxj%2BsaYvooxHvjXgNt5PmM9Cc%2FOt4Zn07MXgpXaI4yOhxUeaY4%2B8fmac58fCpDaaJlHdIwx99nYbSf6IqpU9mXKkRIbkD7zKfjUuK8V%2F0c%2Bgp3%2FofO0ZdGj4O3G73umeB5etC0tZIpAsilT6%2FsrPXgSy26LHayhWVsA4IOKtdjfB1yD8j1qkHgjnINF5e0sUYVGh5A%2B8uATUUdE%2BrLRI5zXVVR2tg8Vf9Ve0qZkMyWvd6dHMrsG7qMjpjJC8frqF2ajmuGKvKyALuB2jnnpzUvV5f9XW0f6cUZ%2BQRalW0p7uMeQGMVEqR1Y1KS76Jh7Ov4XL%2FwBxaq3fjvjvJcKSOeM44zx0rRvKs07SW%2Fc3LrnhveHwbn99VjaTsXJ%2BWTbi6iOAqjj0pu9uY26KAfMdD8qBtJ60gzY6mup5fggsVlcyNDI4dQIRyCpJYHpg5GKiaXPEcvLySfOjXZfRi1pKHGDOPdz5Ae6frVJdWjZkbhlJBB9KnFOKm2ZZm3Gi0WMsCFsAYPPPn6VDubpVfvIzjzHmKF2NtNKSIkZyOu3w%2BJ6CjNn2RupBl07pByWc8keO0DJJ%2BNdEs8XGjmjjd2iyaYr7TvIyQrDZkDB5APnTLXHUcUXltlRQo%2FRAPyGBVYvI2DErXms7021skq%2BTzUe9foB8f3V5FcDx4NeLKGfjkDqaVFWCb7UUVtvJPjjFFtKcNsI4ByeaAappjqwAGVY%2B63gfQ%2Boqz2kAiCqT91Ovr41TqiadnX9ywkjjTBLlgA3TPGOfDxr1Ibsu0fdxblAJ984w2ceHpVbl1fFys2NwRsgeGPCiT9phI7Mvus4UEA9AufH50%2BCoFladJhgWN7%2FNxf8A5D%2Fy0C1KSRpe5kITb1CnI%2BvjRyXtD3Eau4L544PP66puq6oJpmlUbd2OCc9BRjSu6KyTlHTfZYIkiiIBw4PUGmL14s%2FkhsxyMedADcnzp0S5GByTwB5nyrreRUYWE7%2FVZSiAhVEmeQcnAODx4U9Y20Yxj3j5fvqXfdmm7m33dVB7zHgW5pwxKi4QgeZ8azhljjTpCyKU3tjxgHHdxjcfAUbsOyUP3pwZHI69APQVB0%2FSXdA%2B8pgYHr6nNTlkltod7vvOeFHl4msZSbds2hCkI1PQFRSYXbI%2FNbp8Kpw1MtvjZACPE9R51b%2F4bWVC3TA5FVGCMSTu%2Fgev4URewyRVESJlDAfeXPzxVs02NHA97aAOBVKuFCSYPTn9dEtM1HAwTTntHBnjLwXyBoVU4Ubhxkk5PwoZriI8eeCV5GfP0oXHqI86ianfccGsKdnNDHOU1ZHinEq%2BX4ivX09WAy%2BD615ZgKBjAo3ZdGyAcqeorZzo9qGByXZWpdNbPBU%2FOurySXBxmurRHPJU6E3%2BqFkgTHCQxgYP9AGj9pPuiU9OlU%2B7GNmf5qM%2FWNTVqsB%2BSGPSscq0b%2Bml7wokzfpH6mvGAPLAE%2BZANEzp0YHVqFwjdcPEOiorDzyawaZ2rJBnd2v6K%2F3RXd0v6C%2F3RRZNEc84PzwKIWejxx8v77eR%2B6P301GTFPPjj2B7K3mk%2B5nHTPRR86IHRIh70xDt48D8epos9x4eHkOBUKdk8cj1FaqCRwz9RKXWiNKyKu2JQij81RgfTzpuLUjja58Rz6ZGQflTrqp8fmKgXdueo5%2BFUYpsl38wPQ9elALhsHmuacqfh4Gok8m%2FqcHwqWbRkmRtTbHNKgfApt1zweRTRVhx1FCY2nZLt9QbdtA60QSFpGwoyFGWHXg%2BBHrQi2hckED5ngVa9BG0t4luSfPy%2BVOgc2kDlgQfmJ%2FdH7qS0SeCIP8AdX91WiS2jf7y8%2BY4NCNS0dwCYm3D9HA3Dz%2BPhWbgzePqcb7VA3aCoyAR6gGli3j%2FAJtP7q%2FuqRZ2yspycY%2BtJKgTpHk7WVifPI24%2FGoSfR0OcasbFtH%2FADaf3V%2FdXq26A5CKCOQQoB%2FCiL2qAdT9aGXrle6wfvyBT8DTaaJWWD8HtzddQWOfU0Ks7hWnwxyqgn0%2BFK7S4Qgc%2B90byAqLpUX5N5PAkKD8OSa1gtHLmlciw3NzKU6IAfu88geY9aa068dv4x92OMEcig%2F8JkkKTkDp6UiG794seBVOJCmifr0saoxUYJ49KiaeAkQ4yxH%2FAMmhGoX5mO1c0Y0eXKYYdOKEqRLlbC1milegPyFP9yv6K%2FQUHu5pI0HdsBzjpmo0%2BrSr%2Bdz8BWbg29HTizRiqkWLul%2FRH0FKWNf0R9BVOOsXRJ2uMZx90UtNYucHc%2FPoBR9KRovV4%2FguBUeQ%2Bgphzjcf6JoDHqMpHLfqFE7N2KOWOTtP4VLi0bQyxl0ipyzBuSBXtRz4fCurrXR5cu2M3Bzs%2Fs0%2FwLVu04%2FkhVOkPC%2F1E%2Fwirhp5%2FJCssvRfp%2Fuf6LJLPmkdnkxdzORx3aAMemeTx60zGCcDxNHUjVAAPrWMNyNcnsh%2BWTmuc%2BPNRJJqg3PPoRTMN2T7rfeHT1FbHESnuPPpSCx8DUKR%2BcU5DLQA42D14PpTbIw6Gni48aRvWgCDdLn7yg%2FChNxa%2BXP41YmYVHliU%2BFAIq7MRSiwYjqKMXFop6j500mnjPGf1UqNFNo6MDgYoxartGT1NR4LfHx9alqtFEylZLilNPCQ1DRqfVqCRM9sGO5fveI8%2FX41En00mSOUHCqjBvMsxXAA%2BVTw2Kav52OF8Mj8Kairsv6slGhaW64wR9TUTWiqhFCrknOSORj9H1p2ObLUL1t3aXCkDaB1GeT6%2BFWkjK2QZ27zCy5YZx4e78MCpskCqgRR7oGAPSogjcfon6ikSySeoHyIpSh8Gscldg24sRuO0fSoWpZRQviaOxyAnnr6VHurbcclR86STLlKFWiu2sZUHH19KMaW3Qfsrk09gfvfKp2iRtl0b7wG5fUU2jJSokzwAZEnBHPPHzoBNEXyE94%2BHwq7G1SdBvJBC8Eft86AjRJYnJ52noyDqD0GPA1rjgm66JnkpAm30yYZzG3XNRLgdcUeM0pcxnOwfnZw3zoZq8AXoeK0lh02mTHJsdiHSjFr91%2F6p%2FCg1s9F7Q%2B6%2FwDVP4GuGZ6uAp58PhXlenw%2BFdW66OGf3Mgg5A%2BA%2FAVb7V8QA1T4ug%2BA%2FCrfZRFoVUdTjH1rPKX6b7mWXs%2BWfMhGFHC%2FHxP%2FAL86KSyUmCERoqeQ5PmfGo88tJKjOcnJ7G5pOagX2fvDqORTsynrTBbII8aZA4su9Q1JebCcVGtHAYr4Nz8%2FGkXj4B%2BP40DFwkn3iefCpUcfnTMS%2BHlUhQT6CgQ4rCl7vSmlI8OaWmaAFV6kdKAr3dQApFpWaRu8q9zQAoGnA1MilrigB7IPjzTTOGGT%2BbzTc1uSDtJI%2FWPUVCsLo7%2Bf0SCPXIH7DQBKsjlvkKhztmRzkdfPy4qbbe6XJ8P3UJhnyMnbzz0P41oiWPkUgoT%2FAPFI7%2BlK2fA%2FIVQCPsx8W%2FClpAo8vrS8D9BvpXg9I2ooLPe7Fc9uQVkTqhyfVfFaUN36OPrXqzYPUfWgCTbz4OB0zkf1W5FSlvvf%2B9gDrn9VCS5z06MR8jyP21AvIwJG7zdgkkEeINR0FB%2B7vIJThlVz5%2BXzFRpbiLhO7ixnHvKOP30DaXnCKQP1%2FOlxWcrlcKcBsk%2BnjT5sfEOahpcDrmNdrjxRSQfQgcChVopAkB67T%2B2rXazAEJnHFDNZg2szD85T9QKxns7%2FAE6cWZ0q8V1PovFdW6Wjkm%2Fcwro%2FZSJo45GnPvIrbQnTIBxnNWnSNLjjwQzNs6ZAAzQ7RD%2Fo8P8AZp%2FhFHbb3U58ea5bcp0zucYY8PJdtCp3qBPcEdRkV5qOoRxfxkirnpuOKG%2Fw%2FbeMqfWtjziZHdoePxpNxbke8vSh02pWjdJU%2BtNWmvRK23vVYfGlQDtxwwI8eR8R4UmSYOygeDDPyBP7qZm1i2kBXeqnPHPGc%2BdQY72NZG3Sqvz9BmnQywrMBwOTT6Rk8t9BQq01e2zhXXPmTTza7b55lTPxo2IKKRSg1C4dWhY4WVCfAbhTlxqUUf8AGSKpPTJpUARBpQoONetv55PrUwXikAggg9MdKAJ1eigt1rcaHDSKD5E80zFrUbkKsqknoM0wLDupPeetBZ9QjQ4klVT5E8%2FSvF1e2%2Fn0%2FvClQFihl9aCxtiR%2FPcfx8KdGoxqu4uoX9InigdxrcPfORIuCeOfQU0BZr%2BQCJmHlz9OtBFJwOGP%2B9U%2FTr1JkIDBwRjg5oZeTRxNtkaNT5EnP0BqoiYto%2BOVPzb%2FANKUoQf9382yB%2BvrQ9tUgPCsvxMjAfQGpi7FXe8ihfTAH16n61YiWMDrtX5Hn4c80%2Big%2FDz6UPg1W2zxIhPmSM%2FKl%2Fw9bk471T8KBEowIfzGb8KcWLH3YwPj1qHJrkKnBkVT8RUuOcMneLKCnXkjb9fCmAvYQxyoG4DAHXK9SR86nC2EkYyOnFA%2F4Wtdwfv0BAII3efrRjQ9ThkDhJFbbycEdPOs5IpEU6dtORU2x4z8DUC97S2inHfKfPGT%2BFSdMvopeY3VseR5%2BYrOmXZF7Q3hheJhgnHOD60RuphLAJAeq8%2FSonbCANFE36L4%2BRB%2FaKa0tcQsvj1%2BoptaOnHMpi11eMMGurdLRzSfuZbNEOYIR%2F4aD%2FyiilzcnOB0HH0oToB%2FJQf2af4RRmSHPIrlivczq9RL%2B3BDfZTULOHUnk1AxiE2u1DMm9e871CQBg4OAa2Wy0mwljSWO2t2SRQ6MIUwVYAqeV8QRWDa1F%2BRlyOiN1Hoa3TsD%2FJlj%2FssH%2BUlbxejiKPrt%2FpM95YQWot2kW8xKiRAHaIpQQ3ugEbscfCpftp0e2j0id44IkYNFhkjRWGZUBwQM9Kznsqo%2Fhi3OOft8%2FPzet87TaDDfW720%2B7u3Kk7DhvdYMOcHxAqgIWs6DaC1mItYARC5BEUec7Dz0qq%2BxXR7aTSIHkgidi0uWeNGY4lfHJGavmujFrP%2FYyf4Gqoewz%2BRoP60v8AmvQAI9p2q6OlpeWy%2FZkugm0IsQDhvdIAYJwcHzq0didBtH06zZ7aBibeIktEhJJReSSOTVF9rHs9VUvdTFy25gGMWxdvJRMbs59a0vsH%2FJtl%2Fs0X%2BWtAA200XSNRt2KWsLRlmjJWIRurISrYIAZSD4iqT7INARb3VLe4RZvs7xRo0qKx2Bp9p5HGV2k1ofZ7R0021dA0ko7ySZisZZyXYsQsaZJ8BgZqi%2BxbVPtV%2Fq9xtKiSSJgrDDBd04UMPBsAZ9aALfr11o1kyLdJaxFwSu6FeQOD0Q%2BYrD9HRSrHwMjlcD80uduB4DFbP2%2F7ALqUkMhuGhMKso2orZ3EHPJ9KxKzu5DCW90bdwJ6Z2kjP6qmQ0aj7F9Fgks5ppoY5DJcyFTIisQqhUABI6e6fqaNe0js7bHS7tooIUdIjIrJGgYGMh%2BCBkH3ae9kNr3WkWoPVlaQk%2F8AiOz%2FAIEVM7Nzi90qNj%2F38DA%2F7wZT9KoRRvYVZwXNvdSTQxyN9o4LorEDuo%2BASOlXlbPS2uWs%2Fstv3yxCUr9nTHds23O7bg8%2BHrVK%2FwD84KRZXIPBFzg%2FKNK0CLs8q6g9%2FvJZ7dYNmBgBX3ls9SScUAZXrXZCC016wSJB9muGZ%2B5YbkV1Vg4AOfdOVOPAk%2BlafrFpptrEZriC2jjXALGFMDcQB0UnqRWfdpdeW47R6dCqSL9nLgmRGTczq2SoYAlcIMN0POOOa0Ttr2cXULR7VpDGHKncACRsYN0J9KAMV7TanaSak8tkUMHcRr%2BSTapcMxIxgc4x9RVs9jVlDcC%2BaaGOQidQO8RWIHdjgZHAqgdptGOn3j2iyGUKiOHZQp97ORtHB6VofsCJMd8T179f8AqV2BcPsmlm6Nn9mt%2B%2F7rviv2dMd2W253bcdfCs67Q9kYLTXNOWFALa5dmMJGYxIgO7CnjaQynb4HPpWnr2cX%2BETqG87jbC3CYG0DvN5bPUnOBis97W64s3aHTIFSRe4ZyTIjJuMg6oGALL7n3uh5xVAFfbRo9tHpFw8dvCjAxYZI0VhmaMHBAyOKs%2FaHQbQWtwRbQAiGQgiJMghG5HFBvbj%2FI1z8Yf86OrV2k%2F6pc%2F2Ev%2BW1AFH9jGj20mkW7yW8LsTLlnjRmOJpAMkjJ4rOu08KLfXaKAqC%2FgURhQF2kpkY6AemK1P2H%2FAMjW3xm%2Fz5KyztYP9ZXn%2B3wfilAG7XukWEUbyyW1uqRqzuxhTAVQSx4XwAJrKe0cWmapqenW9m0ZiIm%2B0dwvd5QBWCsQBkHaR6ZNbFrmni4tp7cttE0UkRYDJAkQrnHjjOawzUNHXQdTsJDNJPEFkL%2B4AUjxsYgLkkDdu%2F3aANb1W%2Fs9NW2i7gKs06W8SxRpgM%2BcFskYXzPJ56Gqv7Yez0EdsdQiQRzwPHuZAF7xHkVGRwOG%2B8DnqMVb9U0211O2QiTcm4SwzQsNySLnbJGw6MDng%2FAisV9omkataHZdXc9zZysArFjtLBgypKn5rZUEeBx8qACWpxb7dvTDD5UCsGOflTadoWQFJVYAgj3lPSu0yZW%2B6c1Dg0b4Zq6Ac1vkk%2FtrqkTNyePGurZdGcl7mEtDP5KH%2Bon%2BEUVjlZT14oNoLfk4f6i%2F4RReZ0Xq3J%2Btcke2b537I%2Foj69efkZQFz7jDOPQ1uHYH%2BTLH%2FZYP8pKwG%2BumKPHtzuUjJ9RV57N%2B1u3trW3tntLovDDHExVYypKIqkqd%2FTIrWJylP7KSf65t18r%2Bc%2FUyVrvtkvZYdJnkhkeJw0WHjZkYZlQHDKQRkEisZ0q87i7hvWjchLmSZkXbv2OXIA5xkZHjVm9ontJh1CxktIrW4R5ChBkEYX3HVjkhz4CqTA2XW%2F8Aqk%2F9hJ%2FgNVH2GfyNB%2FWl%2FwA16A6n7ZrVoZIvsl0GeNkGVjxllIB%2B%2FwBMmgfs79p0Gn2EVrLbXDuhclowhU7nZhjLg9D5UwBPtUOpNeXy%2FwCnG1zkBe%2BNttCKTkfc2gjPlxW5dg%2F5Nsv9mh%2Fy1rOO0Ptftrm1ngS0ug0sTxqWWPaC6kAn3%2BnNe9nPa3b29rb272l0WiiSNiqxlSUUAkHf04pAWr2PSs1jJuJOLq4Ayc4HeZx9SaGezaMLq%2BthQAO9hPHm3fEn5kk%2FOqt2F9pcNhbvDLa3LM00soKBCMSNkDlxzTHZj2hxWt9qF09tcMl28bIFCFlCb87xv4PvDpmnYFi9tD34ntRaNerHsk7z7H3vXK7d2zjz61mVzGq2kpVWG0Mp7wkOHztYMp5DZJrVh7a7b%2F7K8%2FuR%2FwDPWT6lbNObiXa4Wa4ebu8jdseTdjrjdt9cZqWB9JdntPEdjbwEnC28cZPQ8RhSfjSuzOjw2ltHb27Foo9wUs24%2B87MQWHXBY1n9%2F7XYZIpI47K7DMjKu5YwoJUgZO%2Fpmgfs%2B7dLptklpNaXLurO26IIUIZiRglgfHyp2BbvZFZ9y2px4xtv5QP6uFK%2FqIqVaSt%2FwBIp1ydv8HocZ4yJuDjz5P1qp6L7S4bea8lNld7bmZZVAWPIxDGjbvf4JZGPwIqJD7RI11WS%2F8Aslz3b2qwBQse%2FcJN%2BSN%2BNuPWnYFl7dxga5ozY5JmBPiQFBA%2BW5vqaN%2B1lrkaZMbQzCbdHt%2Bz7%2B8x3i7tuz3umc%2BlZ12h7cLc39heJaXIS0MhdWCB27wADYN%2FPTxxVpb2xQjrYXv9yP8A56AMZIuDNm7%2B0d8VBzdd53hQHAIL8kDmtb9gX8Xff7Qv%2BAVn3tB7WJqF5HPHFLGscPdkShQxO9m4wTxzRT2cdvItNW4WWCaTvpBIpiCkABcEHcw5peQNHSZv%2BkrJuO06aCVzxkXHBx58moPtCUDWdFbAyXmBPj0jwPqx%2BtVVfaLF%2FC38I%2FZbnujZ%2FZ9uE7zd3ofdjfjbj1qB277WHU57Sa1inga0LuGlVeXJiZMAMcjKHOaLA0j24j%2FU1z8Yf8%2BOrV2lP%2Bh3P9hL%2FltWf6d7XLd02X9pLG%2BBu2x97CxB6jxHIBwRx5nGahdq%2B3EupRPZ2EEsccgKyzzAJ%2BTONyxock7gSMnGBnjnIYFj9h%2F8jW3xm%2Fz5KzbtekyX92Gt5gkl9busvdN3WAyD%2BMxjrgUe7D9t102zjs5LO6kaJpPeiVCpDSO6kZYHow8Kd7V%2B0Nb22a3isbtWMkL5dUAxFNHI35%2FXCnHrQBpna4yCxuzDv737NN3fd537%2B7bbsxzuzjGOc18%2FdntMuLu%2Bs4NRN%2BBKJELXDSg8RlykbP0GVBIHgBWnf%2FV6LOPsF7n%2BpH%2Fz1Ve2PbSa%2BltJLK3mhltJWkzcBQpyANmFYk5wQenBoAM61pCaB9llsHm2z3aQzRSPvjdHVs%2B7gYf3Rhhzx4jirb7VrdX0m8Dfmx7x6NGyuvPxUUBtvavaMoF5aTxSKQdvdd7HuHQo46keeBQftj2wk1OE2ttbyxW7kd9NONjMisG2RoDnkgcnwzxzQB0MsTRIZk3MVU8jPJA8KZbRbY%2B%2FiOM%2F0AFPzxTNrfjOWHA4Hpimrq7Dtgcf%2B%2BtWwV2DrnszDuOJW%2FUa6iYmA4FdWfItxZTtGciKMjrsX%2FCKmQ8%2B9jLHgH%2F30r2urNLsrJJul%2BBNwwQgPlnPReg%2BZqQYj1bg%2BAX956V1dRRmLS0bqcc%2Fpe9%2B6oeraU%2B3IwfIjjB%2BFdXUgKw0Ug6gH50pLrHUV1dVCJ0F0G6HHyqXHDn86urqGMkpYjxankskFdXVIDyxKOgpwQv4BQK6uoA8Mcw8B9a5IpW%2F%2Ba6uoAdXT2%2FOavJ5I4hz%2BFdXUAMF%2B8Qn7v6PnxyDXR9oYtoWRsMTjG1j%2BsCurqaDwQ9Y09WG8DHqKAuGjbaa6uqhInwT%2BdE1usLk17XUNDIj6wR1IHyJqzaTrgkUA5Djoa6uqkJhS3jLDvR97xHhxSZZO%2B6DaRwT411dVAQ3TapwcPH7ynzHiDQ5rgxyF8%2Fe97xyN3WurqQDsl1G%2FPeYwFPCt4jcfDpgjnGevFOXN%2FwPyhIx5dDgcevO76etdXVSQHiXMf6Zx%2FV9fLPlz8%2FlUaAc5Jx1zx6%2F%2Bnn5%2BQz1dToE9ibkyZGznjnJAwfLr8K6urqOCK5M%2F9k%3D&hash=e3d48f986be9e32b9b7cc7076468bd01)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 03, 2020, 12:16:17 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 03, 2020, 12:06:28 PM

not worried about riots here in rural NW Iowa

I little worried about the poll workers.  One lady had to be late 80's or more likely early 90s.  She was wearing a mask and had a plexiglass barrier, but handing out papers to sign all day to everyone coming through the line sitting inside at a table.

I'm not sure if masks are required to vote.  Didn't see a sign.  I wore a mask and everyone else at 7am had a mask, but..........

Masks are required in all public buildings here.  Nothing specific about the voting requirements, but the voting booths are all located in public buildings, so by default...

I early voted last week, everyone was wearing masks, the poll volunteers were behind plexiglass screens, they had little finger condoms for you to put on to use the touchscreen, all reasonable precautions were being taken, that I could tell.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 03, 2020, 12:18:39 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2020, 07:43:39 AM

WTF is wrong with kids these days?


https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/evanston/ct-evr-community-response-northwestern-protests-tl-1105-20201103-wyhmlrwfavfmblekffrfzao5au-story.html

They're easy fodder for politicians to use to generate publicity with clickbait stories that snappy boomers flock to?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 03, 2020, 12:19:30 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 03, 2020, 12:16:17 PM

Masks are required in all public buildings here.  Nothing specific about the voting requirements, but the voting booths are all located in public buildings, so by default...

I early voted last week, everyone was wearing masks, the poll volunteers were behind plexiglass screens, they had little finger condoms for you to put on to use the touchscreen, all reasonable precautions were being taken, that I could tell.

There was a kerfuffle in my state where someone made a pol feel bad about voting without a mask. You're allowed to do it, but mostly because one gov order supersedes another. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 12:21:44 PM

I had to drop a check off at the brokerage so we took in an early lunch at our favorite cafe.  I often order smoked salmon benedict there, and did this time.

The cute young server asked me if I wanted my salmon "medium".  I thought I did not hear correctly through the mask.  She repeated it.  I looked confused and then explained the salmon was smoked, so it wasn't cooked.  She said "Oh, sorry, I'm fairly new here and still learning."  No kidding.

Well, after she left the wife went on a RANT about how the cute young thing was VOTING.  I explained to the wife some of the history in the US with things like literacy tests and voting and how a fair number of illiterate people vote legally.  They get a card with the boxes in the right places and vote accordingly.  The wife was ... um, well, not very happy.

Later two men sit down at a table ten feet away, fine, but one of them is wearing a fully on respirator.  OK, fine, he's being careful, but he's DINING in an outdoor cafe, and takes it off of course.  Why wear a respirator walking down the sidewalk and then dine at an outdoor cafe?

Maybe we should have a system where "we" don't vote directly for President, we vote for someone to represent us who actually knows a bit, can read, doesn't wear a respirator, and knows that smoked salmon won't be cooked in the kitchen.  The, later, THEY could vote for President, say mid-December.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2020, 12:27:56 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 03, 2020, 12:16:17 PM

Masks are required in all public buildings here.  Nothing specific about the voting requirements, but the voting booths are all located in public buildings, so by default...

I early voted last week, everyone was wearing masks, the poll volunteers were behind plexiglass screens, they had little finger condoms for you to put on to use the touchscreen, all reasonable precautions were being taken, that I could tell.

reasonable precautions, but possibly a uptick in cases next week fro this in-person voting

wasn't there an increase in cases in Wisconsin way back when they held an election?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 03, 2020, 12:29:20 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 12:21:44 PM

I had to drop a check off at the brokerage so we took in an early lunch at our favorite cafe.  I often order smoked salmon benedict there, and did this time.

The cute young server asked me if I wanted my salmon "medium".  I thought I did not hear correctly through the mask.  She repeated it.  I looked confused and then explained the salmon was smoked, so it wasn't cooked.  She said "Oh, sorry, I'm fairly new here and still learning."  No kidding.

Well, after she left the wife went on a RANT about how the cute young thing was VOTING.  I explained to the wife some of the history in the US with things like literacy tests and voting and how a fair number of illiterate people vote legally.  They get a card with the boxes in the right places and vote accordingly.  The wife was ... um, well, not very happy.

Later two men sit down at a table ten feet away, fine, but one of them is wearing a fully on respirator.  OK, fine, he's being careful, but he's DINING in an outdoor cafe, and takes it off of course.  Why wear a respirator walking down the sidewalk and then dine at an outdoor cafe?

Maybe we should have a system where "we" don't vote directly for President, we vote for someone to represent us who actually knows a bit, can read, doesn't wear a respirator, and knows that smoked salmon won't be cooked in the kitchen.  The, later, THEY could vote for President, say mid-December.

A non-stupid system? Would never work.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2020, 12:36:02 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 03, 2020, 10:59:15 AM

That's a nice looking kitchen, CDawg.

Dr. CDawg.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2020, 12:40:47 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 03, 2020, 12:13:02 PM

To clarify, political talk on this thread hasn't been disallowed.  The only one I care about is the Coronavirus thread.

I think it's a bad idea to talk politics on any of the football board threads, since there's an entire Forum on this message board dedicated to politics, but that bit is up to you all.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s600x600/123199349_359477585111703_3902132547715258864_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=a2X9Ti-PnvAAX_fiMfY&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=7&oh=e067862375d0eeb16fa1d682d3828408&oe=5FC57A6D)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 03, 2020, 12:44:03 PM

I waited zero seconds today when voting.  Thanks early voters who chose to wait in long lines and others who avail themselves of absentee ballots.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 12:45:24 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on November 03, 2020, 12:44:03 PM

I waited zero seconds today when voting.  Thanks early voters who chose to wait in long lines and others who avail themselves of absentee ballots.

Yeah, I wondered exactly this when the news showed long lines here in the first day of early voting.

Come on, folks, wait a day or two, or several.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 03, 2020, 12:48:13 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on November 03, 2020, 12:44:03 PM

I waited zero seconds today when voting.  Thanks early voters who chose to wait in long lines and others who avail themselves of absentee ballots.

Thanks

absentee voter here

I even helped my two cats fill out their ballets

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 03, 2020, 12:54:55 PM

I just got off the phone with my son

He voted here in Houston with no line at all

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2020, 12:55:39 PM

I was first in line.  Showed up at 6:50am, voted at 7:00am, on my way to work at 7:10

small towns don't suck

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2020, 12:56:32 PM

FORE!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 03, 2020, 01:02:43 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 03, 2020, 12:56:32 PM

FORE!!!

Fearless dont you work anymore 

I dont know if there is a such a thing as reincarnation

but if there is I want to come back as you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SFBadger96 on November 03, 2020, 01:11:16 PM

I saw an interesting opinion piece the other day that said that when asked in a professional survey, only 3-4% of Democrats or Republicans believe that violence is appropriate if the "other side" wins, but that about 48-50% think that the other side thinks it is.

As Badge is fond of saying, the reality is that we are a much more moderate and unified nation than the agitators would have you believe, but the agitation has led to a great deal more mistrust of "the other side" than we have previously had. This is an interesting conundrum that I truly hope that our leaders--on both sides--will work to remedy.

I know that in politics--as in any competition--the actors play to win, but unlike other competitions, the overarching point of politics isn't supposed to be winning, it's supposed to be good governance. If that's not what the politician is in it for, then they shouldn't be in it. Alas, we all have different opinions about who that last statement should apply to, and unquestionably, power is a corrupting influence.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 03, 2020, 01:13:46 PM

We had early voting open for three weeks.  The first few days were crazy busy,  but after that, smooth sailing.  I went in the middle of week3, my i s c & a aggie wife and I walked right in, no lines, voted within 7 minutes, and were on our way.  There were two people waiting in line on our way out.  It might have taken then 9 minutes to get through the process.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 03, 2020, 01:15:04 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 03, 2020, 12:13:02 PM

To clarify, political talk on this thread hasn't been disallowed.  The only one I care about is the Coronavirus thread.

Regardless, I'll hold off. No point.

Quote

I think it's a bad idea to talk politics on any of the football board threads, since there's an entire Forum on this message board dedicated to politics, but that bit is up to you all.

Is that what they're doing down there?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 01:21:03 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 03, 2020, 01:15:04 PM

Is that what they're doing down there?

Not really, in my view.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 03, 2020, 01:30:02 PM

Well that's what I was told.  I don't ever go down there, because I have zero interest in talking politics on an internet message board.  O that way, madness lies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 01:43:01 PM

It can be highly entertaining, for bored retired people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on November 03, 2020, 01:51:20 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 03, 2020, 09:13:40 AM

To be fair, it is a stupid system. Most people want to believe we have smart systems, so they assume competence where none exists.

To be fair, you think it is a stupid system. Some of us believe that it works well as intended and its intentions are a good thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 02:07:12 PM

Stupid or not, it isn't going to be changed any time soon, so I don't stress over it.  It's like gravity and aging, and it doesn't rhyme.

One item I strive for in life is to worry less about things outside my control and more about what I can control.

It helps a lot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 03, 2020, 02:12:01 PM

Do you all consider a hamburger to be a sandwich?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 02:15:55 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 03, 2020, 02:12:01 PM

Do you all consider a hamburger to be a sandwich?

an item of food consisting of two pieces of bread with meat, cheese, or other filling between them, eaten as a light meal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 03, 2020, 02:20:38 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 02:15:55 PM

an item of food consisting of two pieces of bread with meat, cheese, or other filling between them, eaten as a light meal.

So a hot dog is a sandwich as well?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 03, 2020, 02:26:45 PM

Identifying stupid flaws in the system and loudly complaining about them has been pretty much my entire career so complaining about the electoral college is right in my wheelhouse. Keeps me sane instead of just going along to get along.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 02:31:43 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 03, 2020, 02:20:38 PM

So a hot dog is a sandwich as well?

Using that definition, I would say yes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 02:33:15 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 03, 2020, 02:26:45 PM

Identifying stupid flaws in the system and loudly complaining about them has been pretty much my entire career so complaining about the electoral college is right in my wheelhouse. Keeps me sane instead of just going along to get along.

If loud complaining is what keeps you sane, have at it, it beats going insane.

I am more in the just going along to keep sane crowd.  It works for me.  And neither approach changes much of import I find.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 03, 2020, 02:45:56 PM

Quote from: SFBadger96 on November 03, 2020, 01:11:16 PM

I saw an interesting opinion piece the other day that said that when asked in a professional survey, only 3-4% of Democrats or Republicans believe that violence is appropriate if the "other side" wins, but that about 48-50% think that the other side thinks it is.

As Badge is fond of saying, the reality is that we are a much more moderate and unified nation than the agitators would have you believe, but the agitation has led to a great deal more mistrust of "the other side" than we have previously had. This is an interesting conundrum that I truly hope that our leaders--on both sides--will work to remedy.

I know that in politics--as in any competition--the actors play to win, but unlike other competitions, the overarching point of politics isn't supposed to be winning, it's supposed to be good governance. If that's not what the politician is in it for, then they shouldn't be in it. Alas, we all have different opinions about who that last statement should apply to, and unquestionably, power is a corrupting influence.

Surveys make for nice conversations.  They feed “ theory” and debate. 

Then there are real life things that we see, CLEARLY, with our eyes. 

I don’t know how anyone can credibly debate those things.  The violence, destruction, looting and all of that which we witnessed all summer are clearly not Trump supporters.  Can’t you just admit that? 

If you want to wax eloquently about the “ why” and somehow come up with a conspiracy theory about how all of those Antifa animals are really Trump supporters in drag- have at it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SFBadger96 on November 03, 2020, 02:48:54 PM

See, I could give you an answer to that question--one that satisfies me, but I suspect you wouldn't agree with it, no matter how eloquently I stated it, but I've been told to stay away from overt political statements around here, and I'm doing so. 

How about you?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 03, 2020, 02:49:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 02:31:43 PM

Using that definition, I would say yes.

Not really talking about definitions in a dictionary, more like, what do each of us consider it to be?

If someone has a bag of fast food, and pulls out a wrapped product and says to you "Wow, take a look at this freaking sandwich!"-- are you expecting to see a hot dog?  Hamburger?  Or more like a ham on rye or a reuben or something?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 03, 2020, 02:51:03 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 03, 2020, 09:00:44 AM

I worry that when POTUS loses, he's going to incite his fans via tweet to cause mayhem.

This is hyperbole of the highest order. Relax Chris Hayes. Stop watching MSNBC. Can’t stand that CIA propaganda and Maddow has a bigger dick than that dweeb Chris Hayes. 

He’s not going to lose imo. I don’t see the enthusiasm for Biden. I think he’s actually a worse candidate than Hillary was.

It’s not 1980. Or even 1990. Polling is essentially worthless today imo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 03, 2020, 02:52:02 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 03, 2020, 09:13:40 AM

To be fair, it is a stupid system. Most people want to believe we have smart systems, so they assume competence where none exists.

No, it’s not. The fact that you say it’s a stupid system astounds me. 

The founders of this country were a HELL of a lot smarter than anyone involved in government today. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 03, 2020, 02:53:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 10:17:11 AM

We did a kitchen in the house about 5 years ago.  The wife got really really stressed (I didn't).  It took three months mostly because they ordered the wrong island top.

This one lasted nearly 3 months mostly because the electrician added some strip outlets after the backsplash boys had measured, so the backsplash had to be remeasured and recut.  There was so much reno work going on in the city everything was backed up.

Little things cause delays. 

I thought the kitchen was OK when we bought the unit.  We did fatten up the cabinets which helps a lot in a smallish kitchen.

The brand new condos being built have some nice kitchens in them appearancewise anyway, because of course that sells.


(https://i.imgur.com/Gw63b5x.png)

Is that yours or the condos you’re talking about ? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 03, 2020, 02:57:18 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 03, 2020, 02:51:03 PM

This is hyperbole of the highest order. Relax Chris Hayes. Stop watching MSNBC. Can’t stand that CIA propaganda and Maddow has a bigger dick than that dweeb Chris Hayes.

He’s not going to lose imo. I don’t see the enthusiasm for Biden. I think he’s actually a worse candidate than Hillary was.

It’s not 1980. Or even 1990. Polling is essentially worthless today imo.

I mean, lack of enthusiasm hasn't appeared to be an issue

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 02:57:26 PM

That is not ours, it's some condos being built near us.  We went into the sales center and oogled.

They have Wolf stoves and SubZero fridges, all the "popular" items, and the cheapest 2 bedroom is $865,000, they told us.

Ours is considerably more prosaic.  We do have a Bosch induction stove, which I love.  Our building is 32 years old now, so the "features" are not like the new places.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 02:59:52 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 03, 2020, 02:49:32 PM

If someone has a bag of fast food, and pulls out a wrapped product and says to you "Wow, take a look at this freaking sandwich!"-- are you expecting to see a hot dog?  Hamburger?  Or more like a ham on rye or a reuben or something?

I would call a hamburger or hotdog just that, not a sandwich.  They have short specific names, like gyro, so why be general when you can be specific with equal facility?

Are they all technically "sandwiches"?  I guess so.  I would not use the term to describe them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 03, 2020, 03:00:14 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 03, 2020, 02:57:18 PM

I mean, lack of enthusiasm hasn't appeared to be an issue

Biden has zero enthusiasm behind him. Nobody likes the guy. Maybe only his family. He is not loved. He does not have a movement behind him. Bernie Sanders- now he did. And what happened? The DNC and Democratic establishment lined up to squash him- again. And the dumbass got on his knees and bent over and took it like the good cuck he is.

The only votes he’s going to get are diehard dems and the people who don’t like Trump. No one is voting for him. He hasn’t given anyone a reason to vote for him. The people that are voting for him are just voting against Trump. This typically doesn’t win you an election.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 03:03:37 PM

This WAS out kitchen before the redo:

(https://i.imgur.com/CG7bFTe.jpg)

It looks almost the same now.  It's a decent size I think considering.  I was standing in the nook to take the photo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 03, 2020, 03:04:06 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 02:57:26 PM

That is not ours, it's some condos being built near us.  We went into the sales center and oogled.

They have Wolf stoves and SubZero fridges, all the "popular" items, and the cheapest 2 bedroom is $865,000, they told us.

Ours is considerably more prosaic.  We do have a Bosch induction stove, which I love.  Our building is 32 years old now, so the "features" are not like the new places.

Sub-Zero/Wolf definitely very expensive. Not sure on the cabinets, hard to tell. Hard to see a developer putting in top of the line cabinets. And those sub/wolf gotta be upgrades that they jack you for. Have a hard time believing those are standard. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 03:08:20 PM

I think this is the best photo of me ever taken, if anyone cares.  

(https://i.imgur.com/GzSxem6.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 03:11:22 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 03, 2020, 03:04:06 PM

Sub-Zero/Wolf definitely very expensive. Not sure on the cabinets, hard to tell. Hard to see a developer putting in top of the line cabinets. And those sub/wolf gotta be upgrades that they jack you for. Have a hard time believing those are standard.

I suspect they are medium to high end cabinets with the features one can notice, like soft close etc.  Those "upgrades" are standard in that complex, which is why the condos are so pricey.  There is another one that never got started except the sale center which I read cost $3.2 MILLION, No, 2 Opus.  They dug the hole, and quit about a year ago.


http://opusplaceatlanta.com/


(https://i.imgur.com/uUB8HGJ.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 03, 2020, 03:11:30 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 03, 2020, 03:00:14 PM

Biden has zero enthusiasm behind him. Nobody likes the guy. Maybe only his family. He is not loved. He does not have a movement behind him. Bernie Sanders- now he did. And what happened? The DNC and Democratic establishment lined up to squash him- again. And the dumbass got on his knees and bent over and took it like the good cuck he is.

The only votes he’s going to get are diehard dems and the people who don’t like Trump. No one is voting for him. He hasn’t given anyone a reason to vote for him. The people that are voting for him are just voting against Trump. This typically doesn’t win you an election.

I guess we'll see. North Carolina nearly matched it's total 2016 vote totals just through early voting. It doesn't appear to me that people aren't enthusiastic about voting, and nothing has suggested Trump is riding some huge wave, so...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 03:13:12 PM

The developers somehow got the idea that near million dollar condos would sell around here, this is the living space for that Opus place, that doesn't exist and never will I suspect.  Their hole in the ground is UGLY.

(https://i.imgur.com/0ym4rq2.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 03, 2020, 03:19:15 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 03:13:12 PM

The developers somehow got the idea that near million dollar condos would sell around here, this is the living space for that Opus place, that doesn't exist and never will I suspect.  Their hole in the ground is UGLY.

(https://i.imgur.com/0ym4rq2.jpg)

Atlanta is great, absolutely love it- but doesn’t strike me as the type of place where multi-million dollar condos fly off the shelves like they do in say Manhattan or Miami. Pre-Covid that is. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 03, 2020, 03:19:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 03:08:20 PM

I think this is the best photo of me ever taken, if anyone cares. 

[img width=500 height=331.997]https://i.imgur.com/GzSxem6.jpg[/img]

uoure too damn happy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 03:24:17 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 03, 2020, 03:19:15 PM

Atlanta is great, absolutely love it- but doesn’t strike me as the type of place where multi-million dollar condos fly off the shelves like they do in say Manhattan or Miami. Pre-Covid that is.

They don't.  The heart of the market around here is more half a million or so.  I can see a building where that is the normal two bdr unit and perhaps the top floor is over a million, but starting nearly a million and going up is not in my view a commercial proposition.  There are some penthouse condos un Buckhead over $10 mil.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 03, 2020, 03:30:24 PM

Am I the only one that thinks it’s absolutely INSANE that CNN and MSNBC actually hires people like James Clapper and John Brennan ?

How does this not make people angry and terrify them ? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 03, 2020, 03:31:26 PM

A hot dog is a sandwich but it's a unique enough subset to be referred to by its more specific name. 

Kinda like if someone says "I see a car" and you look up and see a Bugatti Veyron, you'd wonder why they said "car" when what they were referring to is so much more specific. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 03, 2020, 03:34:42 PM

Speaking of sandwiches, why is this pastrami sandwich $10.79?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 03:34:57 PM

Maybe it's akin to "vehicle", which encompasses cars, trucks, trains, etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 03, 2020, 03:38:24 PM

Also- how tone deaf does Biden have to be to go to flint with Obama to campaign. That is astounding.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 03, 2020, 03:48:17 PM

I'm not suggesting that a hot dog or hamburger don't potentially, technically fall into subsets of a broader group called sandwiches.

However, if nobody ever refers to a hot dog as a sandwich, can we really say that it's a sandwich?

People DO refer to Bugattis as cars.

But I've not once ever seen someone order a sandwich and receive a hot dog, nor heard someone pronounce "I think I'd like to have a sandwich for lunch" and then order a hot dog.  

I did however work with a guy at our BBQ restaurant, a dude who was of Mexican-American descent, who brought tacos made by his mama for lunch everyday.  When he was ready for lunch, he'd say, "Okay, it's time for my sandwich, I'll be back in a few."  

So who knows?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 03:49:14 PM

I agree it's an important issue that is bothering me a lot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2020, 03:50:39 PM

Jus got back from voting. Maybe waited 1 minute in line.

Was told 75% of Lee County voted early.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 03, 2020, 03:53:51 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 03:49:14 PM

I agree it's an important issue that is bothering me a lot.

Heh.  Just looking for a distraction from politics.  I don't really feel strongly about it.

But I will say that if a friend told me, "Hey, don't get anything for lunch, I just went by this new sandwich place and ordered some kick-ass sandwiches and I'm bringing you one" and then it turned out to be a hot dog?  I'd be pretty pissed off.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 03, 2020, 03:55:13 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 03, 2020, 03:34:42 PM

Speaking of sandwiches, why is this pastrami sandwich $10.79?

It's the Bugatti Veyron of sammiches

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 03:58:39 PM

Maybe if it was a really really good hotdog....

I'm sorta stuck on the Willy Philly, which is a burrito, which is a sandwich.  And really good, for $8.75.  Plus tax.

Tax here is nearly 9%.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 03, 2020, 04:00:40 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 12:21:44 PM

I had to drop a check off at the brokerage so we took in an early lunch at our favorite cafe.  I often order smoked salmon benedict there, and did this time.

The cute young server asked me if I wanted my salmon "medium".  I thought I did not hear correctly through the mask.  She repeated it.  I looked confused and then explained the salmon was smoked, so it wasn't cooked.  She said "Oh, sorry, I'm fairly new here and still learning."  No kidding.

Well, after she left the wife went on a RANT about how the cute young thing was VOTING.  I explained to the wife some of the history in the US with things like literacy tests and voting and how a fair number of illiterate people vote legally.  They get a card with the boxes in the right places and vote accordingly.  The wife was ... um, well, not very happy.

Later two men sit down at a table ten feet away, fine, but one of them is wearing a fully on respirator.  OK, fine, he's being careful, but he's DINING in an outdoor cafe, and takes it off of course.  Why wear a respirator walking down the sidewalk and then dine at an outdoor cafe?

Maybe we should have a system where "we" don't vote directly for President, we vote for someone to represent us who actually knows a bit, can read, doesn't wear a respirator, and knows that smoked salmon won't be cooked in the kitchen.  The, later, THEY could vote for President, say mid-December.

So this got me thinking about a couple things. 

The first: This salmon
This feels, maybe a matter of experience or class or something else. I know what lox are, but didn't know how combustable combines were until reading a twitter thread (the answer is very). It's not ideal, but that might be experience. If she's a 19-year-old from Jacksonville, Ga., who knows how many restaurants have salmon at all, let along smoked. (I don't think I'm often asked if I want rare salmon, either)

And we could change it around and a New Yorker is wondering why a Georgian who doesn't know about salmon should vote, it takes on a different tone, and drops into a different part of the culture war. Anyway, we as a society decide that inexperienced people or people with bad judgment are considered adults. (the literacy tests, maybe now would be fine, though obviously the history is ugly as all get-out)

As for the second, system where we don't vote directly. It's interesting because parts of it already exist, even in some backwards ways. We have electors, who in theory are a buffer, though there would be hell to pay if they acted as such. We also have parties that to a degree play a large role in picking who we can realistically vote for. And if we voted for smart folks who then voted, we'd just get a kind of amplified version party politics. 

You could go parliament style, though if it's geography-based, you end up with weird geographic issues unless it's static (like our states) or underhanded tricks. If it's party based, you end up with something like Israel, which is pure in a way, but also recycles pols in an absurd way.

I wish there was a way to structure in good intentions and ability to carry them through, but I don't think there is. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 03, 2020, 04:01:44 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 03:58:39 PM

Maybe if it was a really really good hotdog....

I'm sorta stuck on the Willy Philly, which is a burrito, which is a sandwich.  And really good, for $8.75.  Plus tax.

Tax here is nearly 9%.

I don't know what this is, but I like the idea.

Ever had an Indian food burrito? Real good, though the places with them are often overpriced, unfortunately. Wouldn't be too hard to make, I suppose. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 03, 2020, 04:02:59 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2020, 03:50:39 PM

Jus got back from voting. Maybe waited 1 minute in line.

Was told 75% of Lee County voted early.

That's good. I stood in line for about 45 minutes a few weeks back. 

Local place had lines of 1-1.5 hours before work and I bet will be a mess right after. Ghost town in between. Not catering to work-a-day folks like you'd hope. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 03, 2020, 04:16:35 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 03, 2020, 03:53:51 PM

Heh.  Just looking for a distraction from politics.  I don't really feel strongly about it.

But I will say that if a friend told me, "Hey, don't get anything for lunch, I just went by this new sandwich place and ordered some kick-ass sandwiches and I'm bringing you one" and then it turned out to be a hot dog?  I'd be pretty pissed off.

If someone brought me a really kick-ass hot dog, my anger would quickly dissipate given that it was merely over nomenclature.

I mean, do you really get pissed off when people bring you delicious food just because they explained it badly?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 03, 2020, 04:31:03 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 03, 2020, 03:53:51 PM

Heh.  Just looking for a distraction from politics.  I don't really feel strongly about it.

But I will say that if a friend told me, "Hey, don't get anything for lunch, I just went by this new sandwich place and ordered some kick-ass sandwiches and I'm bringing you one" and then it turned out to be a hot dog?  I'd be pretty pissed off.

There are so many small weird quirks here. 

 Like, if the hot dog kicks ass, might be fine. If it’s a sad hotdog, that’s bad, but if it was a sad regular sandwich, I’d also be pissed. If there are two, I’m less pissed. Also, if someone gives me free lunch, maybe I’m OK with it? Dunno. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 03, 2020, 04:31:55 PM

Could I call a burrito a sandwich? The holding between two pieces of bread part seems stretched beyond recognition.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 03, 2020, 04:36:30 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 03, 2020, 04:31:03 PM

There are so many small weird quirks here.

 Like, if the hot dog kicks ass, might be fine. If it’s a sad hotdog, that’s bad, but if it was a sad regular sandwich, I’d also be pissed. If there are two, I’m less pissed. Also, if someone gives me free lunch, maybe I’m OK with it? Dunno.

I like a sandwich far more than a hot dog.  If I'm expecting a kick-ass sandwich, then a hot god is going to be disappointing every single time.  If all I'm expecting is a hot dog, and it's a good one, then we're fine.  Bottom line, a hot dog is not a sandwich, and expectations should be set appropriately.  

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 03, 2020, 04:31:55 PM

Could I call a burrito a sandwich? The holding between two pieces of bread part seems stretched beyond recognition.

I would never call a burrito a sandwich.  But my Mexican buddy at the restaurant did indeed call his taco a sandwich.  So there you have it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SFBadger96 on November 03, 2020, 04:39:00 PM

Sure, but I know some Wisconsinites who put ketchup on brats, so who's to say a Mexican necessarily understands Tacos?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 03, 2020, 04:44:14 PM

I once dated a girl who called a sandwich a "sangwich."  

She was hot and had a certain... morally casual attitude... so I let it slide.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 05:03:29 PM

Sammich ... Can be a verb.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 03, 2020, 05:04:59 PM

Find you a girl who wants to be a slice of bread

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 03, 2020, 05:08:02 PM

Pumpernickel

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 03, 2020, 05:10:00 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 03, 2020, 05:04:59 PM

Find you a girl who wants to be a slice of bread

Might as well find two unless you want it open-faced.

Speaking of which, is an open-faced sandwich really a sandwich? Seems to be missing one of the critical factors of the definition ("between two pieces of bread").

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2020, 05:12:15 PM

Quote from: SFBadger96 on November 03, 2020, 04:39:00 PM

Sure, but I know some Wisconsinites who put ketchup on brats, so who's to say a Mexican necessarily understands Tacos?

What?

They can't be FROM Wisconsin. No way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 03, 2020, 05:20:08 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NepkGHEd2B0

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 03, 2020, 05:28:00 PM

I think I still have the album - a briefcase full of blues

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 03, 2020, 05:32:42 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 03, 2020, 05:10:00 PM

Might as well find two unless you want it open-faced.

Speaking of which, is an open-faced sandwich really a sandwich? Seems to be missing one of the critical factors of the definition ("between two pieces of bread").

Hell of a lot easier to get to two slices of you start with one

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 03, 2020, 05:45:00 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2020, 12:15:12 PM

https://geneandjudes.com/

Red Hots, French Fries, and Tamales.
Does "red hots" equal "hot dogs" in B1G Country?
To me, they mean these things.
(https://i.imgur.com/W3ZBP1U.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 03, 2020, 05:46:44 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 02, 2020, 01:10:20 PM

pickles and fries on the side

pickle relish?  terrible

Yep.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 03, 2020, 05:58:35 PM

nothing wrong with a little sweet pickle relish on a hotdog 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 03, 2020, 06:28:32 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 03, 2020, 05:10:00 PM

Might as well find two unless you want it open-faced.

Speaking of which, is an open-faced sandwich really a sandwich? Seems to be missing one of the critical factors of the definition ("between two pieces of bread").

Open faced sandwich is to sandwich as deep dish pizza is to pizza?

(I only experience open-faced sandwiches one way, which is having freshly carved roast beef or turkey tossed atop bread and smothered in gravy, which is a good way to calorie bomb)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 03, 2020, 06:32:08 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 03, 2020, 06:28:32 PM

Open faced sandwich is to sandwich as deep dish pizza is to pizza?

(I only experience open-faced sandwiches one way, which is having freshly carved roast beef or turkey tossed atop bread and smothered in gravy, which is a good way to calorie bomb)

Yes and no...

I classify deep dish as a different dish to "pizza", but based on the simple definition, it's still pizza.

I would put it this way:

Open faced sandwich is to sandwich as calzone is to pizza.

Calzones are basically a pizza turnover. Open faced sandwiches use sandwich ingredients but it's not "between" the bread. Whereas a calzone is basically a pizza with some dough stretched around the side and over the top. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 03, 2020, 06:51:38 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 03, 2020, 03:48:17 PM

I'm not suggesting that a hot dog or hamburger don't potentially, technically fall into subsets of a broader group called sandwiches.

However, if nobody ever refers to a hot dog as a sandwich, can we really say that it's a sandwich?

People DO refer to Bugattis as cars.

But I've not once ever seen someone order a sandwich and receive a hot dog, nor heard someone pronounce "I think I'd like to have a sandwich for lunch" and then order a hot dog. 

I did however work with a guy at our BBQ restaurant, a dude who was of Mexican-American descent, who brought tacos made by his mama for lunch everyday.  When he was ready for lunch, he'd say, "Okay, it's time for my sandwich, I'll be back in a few." 

So who knows?

I was going to repeat what I think I read a long time ago--that "taco" is Spanish for "sandwich."

But an English-Spanish translation page provides "emparedado" as the proper Spanish noun.

I also was going to say that a hot dog is not a sandwich because it does not use two pieces of bread.  But then neither do a lot of subs/heroes/hoagies, and they are sandwiches.

Still, in common usage, hot dogs are hot dogs, hamburgers are hamburgers, and sandwiches are sandwiches.

Speaking of hamburgers, their origin is somewhat in dispute.  Part of the problem is whether or not a ground-beef patty between two slices of bread qualifies as a hamburger.  For me, it does not.  Growing up, I would have called one of those a ground-beef sandwich.

If a hamburger is a ground-beef patty between two halves of a bun, then this is the best claim to have been the first, per the Font of All Wisdom and Knowledge:

Quote

Oscar Weber Bilby

The family of Oscar Weber Bilby claim the first-known hamburger on a bun was served on July 4, 1891 on Grandpa Oscar's farm [outside Tulsa]. The bun was a yeast bun. In 1995, Governor Frank Keating proclaimed that the first true hamburger on a bun was created and consumed in Tulsa, Oklahoma in 1891, calling Tulsa, "The Real Birthplace of the Hamburger."

Earlier claims all seem to be about a patty between two slices of bread.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 03, 2020, 06:59:46 PM

If it has bread instead of a bun, and cheese on it, around here we'd call it a patty melt.

I have no idea when that came into the vernacular, nor how widespread it is, though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 03, 2020, 07:02:16 PM

Lots of places claim the hamburger,New Haven,Conn but that was 1900.In Akron Ohio and Outagamie County Fair Wisc.both claim it in 1885

*https://whatscookingamerica.net/History/HamburgerHistory.htm*

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2020, 07:54:44 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 03, 2020, 02:49:32 PM

Not really talking about definitions in a dictionary, more like, what do each of us consider it to be?

If someone has a bag of fast food, and pulls out a wrapped product and says to you "Wow, take a look at this freaking sandwich!"-- are you expecting to see a hot dog?  Hamburger?  Or more like a ham on rye or a reuben or something?

my grandfather cornsidered a hamburger a sammich

my father didn't, neither do I.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2020, 08:00:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 03:08:20 PM

I think this is the best photo of me ever taken, if anyone cares. 

(https://i.imgur.com/GzSxem6.jpg)

best photo ever or not, you are a handsome man

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2020, 08:07:50 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2020, 05:12:15 PM

What?

They can't be FROM Wisconsin. No way.

probably imports from Texas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2020, 08:10:18 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 03, 2020, 06:28:32 PM

Open faced sandwich is to sandwich as deep dish pizza is to pizza?

(I only experience open-faced sandwiches one way, which is having freshly carved roast beef or turkey tossed atop bread and smothered in gravy, which is a good way to calorie bomb)

these are called a "hot beef" or a "hot turkey"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 03, 2020, 08:25:17 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 03, 2020, 05:58:35 PM

nothing wrong with a little sweet pickle relish on a hotdog

This probably explains all of our differences, lol.  Sweet pickles and relish are quite possibly the nastiest thing I've ever tasted.
When they finally came out with dill relish, THAT was a revelation!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 03, 2020, 08:28:01 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 03, 2020, 06:28:32 PM

Open faced sandwich is to sandwich as deep dish pizza is to pizza?

(I only experience open-faced sandwiches one way, which is having freshly carved roast beef or turkey tossed atop bread and smothered in gravy, which is a good way to calorie bomb)

What do you consider daily calorie bombs?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 03, 2020, 08:40:46 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 03, 2020, 08:10:18 PM

these are called a "hot beef" or a "hot turkey"

They’re delightful 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 10:56:33 PM

Wow

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 04, 2020, 12:18:24 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2020, 03:08:20 PM

I think this is the best photo of me ever taken, if anyone cares. 

(https://i.imgur.com/GzSxem6.jpg)

I was was watching American Greed a while back and that looks alot like one guy who was on the lamb after bilking clients/investors.😎

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 04, 2020, 12:27:31 AM

That was me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 04, 2020, 07:02:46 AM

Quote from: CWSooner on November 03, 2020, 05:45:00 PM

Red Hots, French Fries, and Tamales.
Does "red hots" equal "hot dogs" in B1G Country?

Only at G&J.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 04, 2020, 09:20:48 AM

Michigan is a national disgrace and a shit hole of a state and Jim Harbaugh is a clown and that football program is a joke and is dead and will never come back. Never stepping foot in that shit hole of a State again and I will never support that team ever again. I’m giving up on the entire state like I gave up on the Lions when they broke Barry’s soul and forced him to retire early. F##k that entire place.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 04, 2020, 09:26:29 AM

Went for a walk this AM. It’s crisp, started out southern cold. Cloudless kinda day. 

I usually don’t break out the scarf, but it worked today. Was just comfortable for some reason. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 04, 2020, 10:13:00 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 04, 2020, 09:20:48 AM

Jim Harbaugh is a clown and that football program is a joke and is dead and will never come back.

Finally, we can stop talking about when Michigan will figure it out. Everyone gets to be calmer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 04, 2020, 10:19:42 AM

We went to our French restaurant last night and shared Champagne with the staff.  They were fairly busy, even some sat on the patio, the bought heaters.

The tile guys are still working on the first deck, the said they be finished today but I think not (with both decks).  Weather is near perfect, 15°C.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 04, 2020, 10:45:19 AM

weather is perfect here too.

70+ degrees for a high with less than 5mph breeze

golfing weather

I have the day off

life is good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 04, 2020, 10:57:31 AM

I stayed up pretty late for some reason, and apparently sipped a bit too much Woodford whilst watching TV, so my head is not currently in great shape, but it's OK.

The tile guys are buzzing the tile with an annoying tool.  This was dinner.  I had the saumon.

(https://i.imgur.com/c3ivPlK.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 04, 2020, 11:08:58 AM

Going for my 1/2 hour free "swing evaluation" at the local golf pro/clubfitter shop today at lunchtime. It'll be interesting to experience a Trackman for the first time.

Hopefully I can get some tips for what I need to be working on at the range.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 04, 2020, 11:17:31 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 04, 2020, 10:57:31 AM

I stayed up pretty late for some reason, and apparently sipped a bit too much Woodford whilst watching TV, so my head is not currently in great shape, but it's OK.

The tile guys are buzzing the tile with an annoying tool.  This was dinner.  I had the saumon.

(https://i.imgur.com/c3ivPlK.jpg)

Salmon looks good!


I too stayed up pretty late last night, and I was well into some Lagavulin I had put back just for the occasion.  About midnight I decided I was hungry, and I made myself a snack of a Kentucky Derby-style "hot brown."  It was delicious... I think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 04, 2020, 11:29:03 AM

The salmon comes with artichoke hearts and purple olives and the tomato based sauce, it's an interesting combination.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 04, 2020, 11:29:36 AM

The good thing about being on the West Coast was that it was apparent much earlier than you guys back east that the compelling finish we were all looking for on the TV programming wasn't happening, so I got to sleep at a pretty reasonable time. 

I was many IPAs in, but didn't hit the brown liquor. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 04, 2020, 11:48:02 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 04, 2020, 10:13:00 AM

Finally, we can stop talking about when Michigan will figure it out. Everyone gets to be calmer.

Let's be honest- Michigan under Bo in the 70s and 80s had some dominant runs where he was losing 1-2 games a year max- some years even going undefeated when you factor in ties- but it started to tail off in the late 80s and early 90s. Gary Moeller was losing 3-4 games a year, and if he was winning 11 or 12 every year, he probably wouldn't have been fired for his public drunken outburst.

Lloyd Carr took over and was losing 4 games a year until he hit lighting in '97 with arguably the greatest college DB in the history of the sport, and a future 1st ballot NFL HOF'er in Woodson. The only other time LLLLoyd as he was known- had 2 or less losses in his career was in 1999- when he kept trying to give Henson the job over Brady- and in 2006- when they lost to Ohio State in the "game of the century".

Michigan never produced a lot of high level football talent- never had that sort of history like Ohio did and still does to a degree- and they have to share what little talent they have with an in-state P5 program in MSU- something Ohio State doesn't have to deal with- and remember- Michigan is a decaying shit-hole and has been since the late '60s when the riots caused Detroit to fall off a cliff and every one to leave, and it's problems have only been exasperated by NAFTA and Permanent Trade relations with China- those two moves caused millions of good paying manufacturing jobs to leave the state and crippled it's economy- and caused millions to flee the sinking shithole state. The decaying state and population flee has caused what little talent it produced to sink even further.

Only way they'll ever come back is if they get a coach that can go anywhere in the country and load up with elite players. Like Urban Meyer can. Like Nick Saban can. RichRod couldn't. Hoke couldn't. Harbaugh can't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 04, 2020, 11:56:25 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 04, 2020, 11:29:36 AM

The good thing about being on the West Coast was that it was apparent much earlier than you guys back east that the compelling finish we were all looking for on the TV programming wasn't happening, so I got to sleep at a pretty reasonable time.

I was many IPAs in, but didn't hit the brown liquor.

I started with wine, Bordeaux.  Drank that bottle mostly by myself, had one beer (Okotberfest), decided beer wasn't what I wanted, so then I got into the whisky,

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 04, 2020, 12:16:10 PM

I was printing and cutting all evening.  Didn't turn my TV on until 9pm EST.  Switched between MSNCB and FN.  It was funny to watch FN call VA waaaaay before NBC did and have a segment where their stats guy spelled out why they called it one way when the numbers showed it another way, early-on.

That's got to be a tough job - being a stats guy for a viewership who is suspicious of anyone with a degree.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 04, 2020, 12:23:02 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 04, 2020, 12:16:10 PM

I was printing and cutting all evening.  Didn't turn my TV on until 9pm EST.  Switched between MSNCB and FN.  It was funny to watch FN call VA waaaaay before NBC did and have a segment where their stats guy spelled out why they called it one way when the numbers showed it another way, early-on.

That's got to be a tough job - being a stats guy for a viewership who is suspicious of anyone with a degree.

So, you were viewing Fox News then?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 04, 2020, 12:43:38 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 04, 2020, 12:16:10 PM

I was printing and cutting all evening.  Didn't turn my TV on until 9pm EST.  Switched between MSNCB and FN.  It was funny to watch FN call VA waaaaay before NBC did and have a segment where their stats guy spelled out why they called it one way when the numbers showed it another way, early-on.

That's got to be a tough job - being a stats guy for a viewership who is suspicious of anyone with a degree.

How anybody watches MSNBC after they f##n hired John f##n Brennan as an "analyst" and pushed an evidence free based conspiracy for 3 years is beyond me. It's an echo chamber for incredibly stupid hyperbole and they never have anyone on that disagrees with anything they say.

The people on that network that try to tell the truth get fired, and the people who visit who try and push back against the narrative the Democratic establishment want to peddle are never allowed back on.

CNN is just as big of a joke. They let Fredo get on there and talk about meatballs and sauce with his brother but never once maybe ask him why he forced covid positive people back into nursing homes which absolutely killed tens of thousands of people. Remember- nearly 50% of all deaths from this thing are who? PEOPLE IN NURSING HOMES. 

Gee, how funny. And then they go and hire James f###n Clapper- a man who should be in F#$@NG PRISON for committing a felony and perjuring himself under oath in front of the Senate- and pay him $1.5 million a year to be an "analyst" and push evidence free based conspiracies. Absolute lunacy.

I have my issues with Fox News as well, but right now, they look like rookies when it comes to propaganda pushing compared to the other cable news channels.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 04, 2020, 12:48:12 PM

Maybe we should eschew politically oriented rants here "In Other News", as this thread is indeed "other news" you won't find on the regular news.

I'm having left over chili for lunch.  There ya go.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 04, 2020, 12:50:22 PM

NY has still not released the total number of deaths from coronavirus in nursing homes. Cuomo is the only governor of any state that has not released this information. Wonder if this has anything to do with it....


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElgX4aQXUAEQ8fj?format=jpg&name=900x900)


Wonder why CNN never asks that. Nah, instead let's get him on CNN with Fredo and joke about meatballs and sauce and how big his nose is. Hahahaha. So funny.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 04, 2020, 01:33:47 PM

I'm eating a school lunch where the main entree is a soft pretzel with cheese dip.


Maybe an issue where both parties can come together is school lunches.  Maybe the cheapest crap possible isn't a great plan?  Maybe soft pretzels w/ cheese or chili fries shouldn't be a main entree for our children.


Oh wait, nope.  We can't.  It's a politicized issue of public vs private and the dishonestly-named "school choice."  Never mind.  I was wrong to think that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 04, 2020, 01:36:17 PM

"school choice" in parameters apt to this site:

If all of Wisconsin's and Iowa's and Penn State's best players could just transfer to Ohio State with no sitting out, and whenever they want to. 

And Wisconsin/Iowa/Penn State cannot recruit anyone to replace them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 04, 2020, 01:49:30 PM

I don't see how school choice relates to lunch quality, but whatever.  I'm sure if students generally want to pay more for better food, they could get that done.

They were awful back in my day well before "school choice" was an option other than paying for it yourself.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 04, 2020, 01:54:39 PM

My mother always packed a lunch for us. Is that still an option, or are people just too damn lazy?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SFBadger96 on November 04, 2020, 01:58:39 PM

Right, wrong, or indifferent, the school lunch program exists to help feed people who are near or below the poverty line. It's means tested.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 04, 2020, 02:02:57 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 04, 2020, 01:33:47 PM

I'm eating a school lunch where the main entree is a soft pretzel with cheese dip.

Maybe an issue where both parties can come together is school lunches.  Maybe the cheapest crap possible isn't a great plan?  Maybe soft pretzels w/ cheese or chili fries shouldn't be a main entree for our children.

Oh wait, nope.  We can't.  It's a politicized issue of public vs private and the dishonestly-named "school choice."  Never mind.  I was wrong to think that.

Why should I in California have to "come together" on what students in Arizona are eating for their school lunch? 

This should be a local issue.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 04, 2020, 02:04:09 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 04, 2020, 02:02:57 PM

Why should I in California have to "come together" on what students in Arizona are eating for their school lunch?

This should be a local issue.

Bingo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 04, 2020, 02:15:46 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 04, 2020, 11:48:02 AM

Let's be honest- Michigan under Bo in the 70s and 80s had some dominant runs where he was losing 1-2 games a year max- some years even going undefeated when you factor in ties- but it started to tail off in the late 80s and early 90s. Gary Moeller was losing 3-4 games a year, and if he was winning 11 or 12 every year, he probably wouldn't have been fired for his public drunken outburst.

...

Only way they'll ever come back is if they get a coach that can go anywhere in the country and load up with elite players. Like Urban Meyer can. Like Nick Saban can. RichRod couldn't. Hoke couldn't. Harbaugh can't.

That part of the Bo era is interesting because it woulda been a dang thing if it happened nowadays. 
Year 1 Surprise upset to ruin things for OSU
Year 2 Undefeated until visiting OSU, lose (not too much harm)
Year 3 Undefeated all the way to the Rose Bowl, miss a chance to at worst end up at No. 2 because of a 1-point upset to 8-3 Stanford (who lost to SJ State)
Year 4 Undefeated to OSU, then lose to OSU by 3 at the end of the season 
Year 5 Undefeated to OSU, tie No. 1 OSU to miss the Rose Bowl
Year 6 Undefeated to OSU, then lose to OSU by 2 to miss the Rose Bowl
Year 7 Undefeated to OSU with ties to six loss Baylor, four-loss Stanford, lose to No. 1 OSU then lost the bowl
Year 8 Start 8-0, lose at 5-6 Purdue, beat OSU, lose bowl
Year 9 Start 6-0, lose to unranked Minnesota at No. 1 team, beat OSU and miss a chance to claim a national title with a low-scoring bowl loss. 
Year 10 Have the decency to lose to a good (three loss) MSU team after only 4-0. Win out until the bowl game, where they lose again.
Year 11 Lose four games, three to close the season

I feel like modern fans would take issue with parts of this path.

As for getting elite players from anywhere, the issue is the same. Folks can go to place where its easier, so why wouldn't they?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 04, 2020, 02:23:36 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 04, 2020, 02:02:57 PM

Why should I in California have to "come together" on what students in Arizona are eating for their school lunch?

This should be a local issue.

Are you saying what they're fed or why they're fed at all? The first makes sense to me, the second is sort of circular and logical in its way. 

(It also leads to another rabbit hole which is getting calories into kids in a not-unhealthy way, which I'm told is like a mountianous Rubik's Cube or parenting)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 04, 2020, 02:27:21 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 04, 2020, 02:23:36 PM

Are you saying what they're fed or why they're fed at all? The first makes sense to me, the second is sort of circular and logical in its way.

(It also leads to another rabbit hole which is getting calories into kids in a not-unhealthy way, which I'm told is like a mountianous Rubik's Cube or parenting)

Primarily the "what they're fed" question. 

I'm just questioning why it is a political issue, and if it's a political issue, why it's not an issue at the state or school district rather than the federal level.

It's not my job from Mission Viejo CA to tell OAM and his students in AZ what's on the menu. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 04, 2020, 02:29:10 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 04, 2020, 02:15:46 PM

As for getting elite players from anywhere, the issue is the same. Folks can go to place where its easier, so why wouldn't they?

Huh?

At OSU Urban and now Day (who was handed the keys to a Ferrari) - load up on 5*’s every year from Cali, TX, Florida, Washington, Georgia, NV, DMV, PA - all over the country.

Urban would’ve done the same thing at Michigan and gotten 5*’s from everywhere and anywhere. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 04, 2020, 02:29:44 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 04, 2020, 02:27:21 PM

Primarily the "what they're fed" question.

I'm just questioning why it is a political issue, and if it's a political issue, why it's not an issue at the state or school district rather than the federal level.

It's not my job from Mission Viejo CA to tell OAM and his students in AZ what's on the menu.

I assume its because it's federal funds? Which in itself seems fine, but if they wanna give local folks control over that, have at?

(I also have no idea if you in Mission Viejo actually affect it at all, but that's for another time)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 04, 2020, 02:35:11 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 04, 2020, 02:29:44 PM

I assume its because it's federal funds? Which in itself seems fine, but if they wanna give local folks control over that, have at?

(I also have no idea if you in Mission Viejo actually affect it at all, but that's for another time)

I'm going to stop responding on this topic... I shouldn't have taken the political bait. 

But the idea is that "we" should come together on this, which I understood to mean politically. And as a Mission Viejo voter, obviously who I elect might have an effect on the decision, so therefore I technically have an effect on the decision, right? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 04, 2020, 02:36:13 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 04, 2020, 02:29:10 PM

Huh?

At OSU Urban and now Day (who was handed the keys to a Ferrari) - load up on 5*’s every year from Cali, TX, Florida, Washington, Georgia, NV, DMV, PA - all over the country.

Urban would’ve done the same thing at Michigan and gotten 5*’s from everywhere and anywhere.

Sure. 

But if you can go to OSU (or Bama) where it's easier to some degree to get those players (200 miles south matters to a degree) and you have more talent nearby, why wouldn't you just go there? OSU has more talent nearby, better geography, etc. 

If they can do it anywhere, why do it somewhere harder when easier options exist?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 04, 2020, 02:37:55 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 04, 2020, 02:35:11 PM

I'm going to stop responding on this topic... I shouldn't have taken the political bait.

But the idea is that "we" should come together on this, which I understood to mean politically. And as a Mission Viejo voter, obviously who I elect might have an effect on the decision, so therefore I technically have an effect on the decision, right?

I suppose, in some ways, the argument seems like a house of cards where it started (pretzels and such). Anyway, didn't mean to pull you in. Natural curiosity got the best of me. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 04, 2020, 02:51:31 PM

Just back from a walk, a quite large pin oak fell over at some point, I guess the hurricane.  It was likely 80-90 years old, took two other smaller trees with it.  Diameter at the base was 3-4 feet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 04, 2020, 04:04:37 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 04, 2020, 01:54:39 PM

My mother always packed a lunch for us. Is that still an option, or are people just too damn lazy?

I packed lunches for my kids 4 days/week, and let them buy lunch once per week on the day of their choice, after looking at the weekly menu.  They usually chose Friday, which was Pizza day (yes, rectangular school cafeteria still exists and is unchanged from 35 years ago, as far as I can tell).

Nowadays at ages 11 and 13 they pack their own lunches.  I don't miss the hurried morning rush, but I do miss the feeling of taking care of them that I always got, packing their lunches for them and sending them on their way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 04, 2020, 04:10:13 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 04, 2020, 02:36:13 PM

Sure.

But if you can go to OSU (or Bama) where it's easier to some degree to get those players (200 miles south matters to a degree) and you have more talent nearby, why wouldn't you just go there? OSU has more talent nearby, better geography, etc.

If they can do it anywhere, why do it somewhere harder when easier options exist?

It's not really that much easier to get those kind of nationally elite players at OSU or even Bama. It's probably a wash at best. In fact, it might even be easier at Michigan with everything they have to offer and it's proximity to a major international airport.

The key is building it. If you build it, they will come. Alabama was a mediocre for much of the 90s save a couple of years here and there, and for virtually all of the 2000s they were a dumpster fire until 2008 when Saban went 12-2 in Year 2. Been all uphill since then. Ohio State never recruited this insane nationally before Urban got there and took it to a completely next level. Day is just continuing that.

The huge difference is the local talent. Ohio produces way more football talent than Michigan, and there is no other program to have to share the instate talent with. Imagine if MSU didn't exist. Charles Rogers, Malcom McDowell, TJ Duckett, Andre Rison, William Gholston, Dion Sims, Devante Dobbs, etc., etc., - these were all big-time recruits from Michigan that wouldn't have had any other option to stay home. And Alabama produces higher amount of players per capita, but they are right by Georgia- a huge talent producing state- and right by Mississippi & Louisiana- probably the two highest talent producing states per capita. And then there is Florida, but they are so far away from South Florida- where the vast majority of the elite talent in the state of Florida is- that it is basically another world. They weren't getting elite kids from South Florida until they started winning titles. Also helps that Miami and FSU have really stunk, and Florida took a nose dive with Meyer leaving.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: DevilFroggy on November 04, 2020, 05:22:12 PM

For kindergarten last year I packed my twins' lunch but due to some CIVID relief funds they got this year the schools are providing free cafeteria food to ALL students regardless of income level so yeah, I'm taking advantage of that while it lasts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 05, 2020, 07:35:59 AM

@OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) 

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 04, 2020, 11:00:12 PM

Arizona is an immoral shithole that relies on being out west and no one truly giving a damn.

That's because California moved there.

They f'd up their own state, and now they are moving to others, like locusts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 05, 2020, 08:23:12 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 04, 2020, 04:10:13 PM

It's not really that much easier to get those kind of nationally elite players at OSU or even Bama. It's probably a wash at best. In fact, it might even be easier at Michigan with everything they have to offer and it's proximity to a major international airport.

The key is building it. If you build it, they will come. Alabama was a mediocre for much of the 90s save a couple of years here and there, and for virtually all of the 2000s they were a dumpster fire until 2008 when Saban went 12-2 in Year 2. Been all uphill since then. Ohio State never recruited this insane nationally before Urban got there and took it to a completely next level. Day is just continuing that.

The huge difference is the local talent. Ohio produces way more football talent than Michigan, and there is no other program to have to share the instate talent with. Imagine if MSU didn't exist. Charles Rogers, Malcom McDowell, TJ Duckett, Andre Rison, William Gholston, Dion Sims, Devante Dobbs, etc., etc., - these were all big-time recruits from Michigan that wouldn't have had any other option to stay home. And Alabama produces higher amount of players per capita, but they are right by Georgia- a huge talent producing state- and right by Mississippi & Louisiana- probably the two highest talent producing states per capita. And then there is Florida, but they are so far away from South Florida- where the vast majority of the elite talent in the state of Florida is- that it is basically another world. They weren't getting elite kids from South Florida until they started winning titles. Also helps that Miami and FSU have really stunk, and Florida took a nose dive with Meyer leaving.

I mean, Bama is just closer to more of that "national" talent, and it's warmer. OSU is a more interesting case. But as you said, if you're good enough to get all the national kids, might as well go somewhere that has a good local crop. As you said, Michigan has to share a state, two of the closest by schools who can slip across the border are helmets, and there's no talent base to the north. 

Maybe you find the guy that wants to go, but he'll have options.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 05, 2020, 08:23:56 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 05, 2020, 07:35:59 AM

@OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58)


That's because California moved there.

They f'd up their own state, and now they are moving to others, like locusts.

Trying to decided whether this is serious and if I should say something. Kinda assuming it's not. Feel free to correct me. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 05, 2020, 08:35:37 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cNGfHEhtng


One of the best videos I've ever seen on ut, seriously, entertaining and instructive.

And this "argument" comes up all the time on associated chat sites.

It's about the question of the "best tank of WW 2" and has a superb final answer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 05, 2020, 08:56:27 AM

my grandmother was a school lunch cook back in the 70s when I was in school

the food wasn't always great tasting or enough to fill up a high school boy, but it wasn't horrible.  Some days better than others.  Most of the time better than a sammich and some chips in a lunch box from home

10 years ago when my daughters were in school there were mandates on nutrition that were met each meal.

maybe Iowa just does a better job than some states.

we didn't have options to purchase other food.  You went through the line and got what was offered that day.  It wasn't expensive for the majority that paid full price, it was even better for families that were deemed low income and got a reduced rate, maybe even free

I don't hear any complaints here about school lunches, but I've never heard that nacho cheese on a pretzel was the "protein" for the meal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 05, 2020, 08:57:58 AM

@bwarbiany (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) ,

How was the Trackman experience?

I've demo ed clubs on a simulator, but not done a "fitting"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 05, 2020, 08:59:24 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 05, 2020, 08:23:56 AM

Trying to decided whether this is serious and if I should say something. Kinda assuming it's not. Feel free to correct me.

I think it is serious, and I think he is right. California is a failed state. And it's citizens are fleeing to Arizona, Texas, Nevada- and trying to mess up those states like they helped destroy California.

I think every other state in the country should put an immigration ban on California. No dumb Californians allowed. Let the crazy assholes stay in that rotted homeless filled shithole state and burn.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 05, 2020, 09:03:46 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 05, 2020, 08:23:56 AM

Trying to decided whether this is serious and if I should say something. Kinda assuming it's not. Feel free to correct me.

Half way. Let's just say my relatives in AZ are not happy with the influx and how their state has changed in recent years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 05, 2020, 09:06:40 AM

My stepson lives in SF.  We normally visit 2-3 times a year, and he comes here the same.  I enjoy visiting CA.  I'd probably have retired there except for taxes.

The notion it is some complete failure of a state is not consistent with my experience.  It has bad areas of course, which is not unique, and a lot of homeless esp. in the Tenderloin District in SF.  Much of the rest is wealthy with a high standard of living.  The eastern parts look more like Texas.  They make great wine.  A lot of the scenery is fantastic.

I think they have made mistakes in governing, but so have other states.  CA is just BIG.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 05, 2020, 09:13:53 AM

(https://usbacklash.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/California-Dream-Lie-Versus-Shithole-California-Reality-Slums-Poverty-Homeless-Welfare.jpg)(https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/iV6LVxWqNcXs/v0/1000x-1.jpg)
(https://i.imgflip.com/38mzc3.jpg)(https://i.imgflip.com/397ki6.jpg)
(https://www.thepubliceditor.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/The_New_Hotel_California.jpeg)

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/i36kold5faM/hqdefault.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 05, 2020, 09:30:07 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 05, 2020, 09:03:46 AM

Half way. Let's just say my relatives in AZ are not happy with the influx and how their state has changed in recent years.

Ehhhh, that's everyone everywhere. Complaining about people from far away is our national sport. I'm sure many Floridians are pissed that these Midwesterners keep coming in. When they came from the northeast, it was fine, but not this! :)

You should hear how much people in my state, especially parts of my state just loath folks from Ohio. In the end, it's mostly silly fiddle-faddle. State's are big and diverse and have lots of things, and relatively arbitrary in their construction. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 05, 2020, 09:35:06 AM

California has grown to be by far the most populous state.  Calling it a failed state is not serious.  Much of the west is more or less an empty lot.  Property values are going to ensure that people slowly move away from California and towards somewhere cheaper.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 05, 2020, 09:41:15 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 05, 2020, 09:30:07 AM

I'm sure many Floridians are pissed that these Midwesterners keep coming in. When they came from the northeast, it was fine, but not this!

Most of the population of Florida lives in like 3 areas- South Florida (9.3+ million), Tampa Bay MSA (3.2+ million), and Greater Orlando (2.6+ million). Those 3 cities and suburban areas around those cities have 70% of the population of the entire state. 

And vast majority of these people are not from Florida. Everyone is from somewhere else originally. Tampa and Orlando probably have just as many if not more midwesterners than northeasterners. The northeastern crowd is mainly South Florida- but there are a ton of midwesterners down there as well. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 05, 2020, 09:46:33 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 05, 2020, 08:59:24 AM

I think it is serious, and I think he is right. California is a failed state. And it's citizens are fleeing to Arizona, Texas, Nevada- and trying to mess up those states like they helped destroy California.

I think every other state in the country should put an immigration ban on California. No dumb Californians allowed. Let the crazy assholes stay in that rotted homeless filled shithole state and burn.

The bolded cases me to want to say many blunt things. I will not for now as I'd like to keep a level of civility. But I'll just say it shows a profound misunderstanding of the way the world actually is. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 05, 2020, 09:51:17 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 05, 2020, 09:41:15 AM

Most of the population of Florida lives in like 3 areas- South Florida (9.3+ million), Tampa Bay MSA (3.2+ million), and Greater Orlando (2.6+ million). Those 3 cities and suburban areas around those cities have 70% of the population of the entire state.

And vast majority of these people are not from Florida. Everyone is from somewhere else originally. Tampa and Orlando probably have just as many if not more midwesterners than northeasterners. The northeastern crowd is mainly South Florida- but there are a ton of midwesterners down there as well.

That's nice, but 73 percent of residents are from Florida and they can still complain about interlopers. And I bet some of the transplants complain about them too. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 05, 2020, 09:54:09 AM

No Canadians down here this year. Or Europeans. They are not happy to own here and not be able to come. That seems wrong.

My German friends are included in this. We will not see them this year.

Of course, we can't go there either.

Florida is fine with the Midwesterners. 

It's the NE/NY people they'd rather not have.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 05, 2020, 09:58:14 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 05, 2020, 09:35:06 AM

California has grown to be by far the most populous state.  Calling it a failed state is not serious.  Much of the west is more or less an empty lot.  Property values are going to ensure that people slowly move away from California and towards somewhere cheaper.

California is a failed state. It wasn't that long ago that the state government was so deeply in debt that it was issuing IOU's to state employees instead of pay checks. Less than 10 years ago. 

California has nearly 30% of all homeless people in this country. One state. 30% of all homelessness. Why is that? And the homeless are turning the big cities like LA and San Fransisco into a literal dumping ground.

People leaving doesn't have as much to do with property values. There are other parts of California they could move to that are cheap. And there are a lot of rich people with plenty of money that can afford the high property value in the in-demand areas like SF/LA that are fleeing because of the INSANE taxes. And the state is trying to- not sure if it has passed yet- but they were trying to go from 13.3% state income tax for top earners to 16.8% AND institute a state wealth tax as well- the first of it's kind in any state. And as part of that wealth tax- the cocksuckers were trying to tax wealthy people who left the state for up to 10 years. 

#CaliforniaShitHole 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 05, 2020, 09:59:51 AM

I like visiting and fund most of the state to be rather nice.  Parts are not.  Just my perspective.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 05, 2020, 10:00:47 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 05, 2020, 09:51:17 AM

That's nice, but 73 percent of residents are from Florida and they can still complain about interlopers. And I bet some of the transplants complain about them too.

This is inaccurate. Last I read, less than 35% of Florida residents were actually born/native to Florida. 

Seems like damn near half of South Florida has roots from NY/NJ.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 05, 2020, 10:03:06 AM

It is rare in Atlanta to meet someone "from here".  Some of the older upper class folks are from here.  The 'burbs have always been interlopers.

We're used to it.  The crew doing our tile job are Brazilian.

The guys doing our kitchen were from South Africa.

They have all been extremely nice and diligent and careful.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 05, 2020, 10:03:26 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 05, 2020, 09:58:14 AM

California is a failed state. It wasn't that long ago that the state government was so deeply in debt that it was issuing IOU's to state employees instead of pay checks. Less than 10 years ago.

California has nearly 30% of all homeless people in this country. One state. 30% of all homelessness. Why is that? And the homeless are turning the big cities like LA and San Fransisco into a literal dumping ground.

People leaving doesn't have as much to do with property values. There are other parts of California they could move to that are cheap. And there are a lot of rich people with plenty of money that can afford the high property value in the in-demand areas like SF/LA that are fleeing because of the INSANE taxes. And the state is trying to- not sure if it has passed yet- but they were trying to go from 13.3% state income tax for top earners to 16.8% AND institute a state wealth tax as well- the first of it's kind in any state. And as part of that wealth tax- the cocksuckers were trying to tax wealthy people who left the state for up to 10 years.

#CaliforniaShitHole

I mean, come on.  It's the largest non-country economy in the world, would be the fifth biggest economy in the world, has two of the top three city economies in the country, and also has the highest agricultural output in the country.  Not sure what failure means if you call that a failure.  It has the most people and the most money. Calling California a failed state is like calling OSU a failed football program.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 05, 2020, 10:04:33 AM

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/08/30/california-arizona-fires-blue-state-energy-coronavirus-column/5645176002/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 05, 2020, 10:04:39 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 05, 2020, 10:00:47 AM

This is inaccurate. Last I read, less than 35% of Florida residents were actually born/native to Florida.

Seems like damn near half of South Florida has roots from NY/NJ.

Well here's the data of where people were born. 

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/geographic-mobility/state-of-residence-place-of-birth-acs.html

73 percent. If you'd like to show me that 35 percent, I'd love to see it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 05, 2020, 10:06:04 AM

it just seems that way in Ft. Lauderdale

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 05, 2020, 10:06:37 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 05, 2020, 10:04:33 AM

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/08/30/california-arizona-fires-blue-state-energy-coronavirus-column/5645176002/

Wait, a political columnist wrote something bombastic to get attention? That's crazy. Next thing, I'll learn Michigan bloggers think OSU is up to no good. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 05, 2020, 10:07:40 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 05, 2020, 10:03:06 AM

It is rare in Atlanta to meet someone "from here".  Some of the older upper class folks are from here.  The 'burbs have always been interlopers.

We're used to it.  The crew doing our tile job are Brazilian.

The guys doing our kitchen were from South Africa.

They have all been extremely nice and diligent and careful.

It's almost like people from other places are just people, and broadly categorizing them is both petty and childish. Almost. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 05, 2020, 10:12:51 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 05, 2020, 10:04:39 AM

Well here's the data of where people were born.

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/geographic-mobility/state-of-residence-place-of-birth-acs.html

73 percent. If you'd like to show me that 35 percent, I'd love to see it.

It's actually 36%, second lowest native born population in the nation. Would bet these numbers have probably maintained similar as 1,000+ people a day have been moving to Florida every year for the past 10+ years.

"Just 36 percent of Florida's residents were born in Florida as of 2012. Only Nevada has a smaller native population, with only 25 percent of residents born in the state, but Nevada isn't so much a state as it is a collection of brothels and casinos in the desert anyway."

From Miami-New Times - https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/florida-has-the-second-fewest-native-residents-of-any-state-6548292

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 05, 2020, 10:17:09 AM

Calling CA a "failed state" is an opinion, unless one devises criteria for measuring state failure.

The did have fiscal problems in 2009, but largely have traversed that until COVID.

I personally would view a failed state as one technically bankrupt.  Illinois comes to mind as a state with a really bad fiscal situation that gets ignored often as not.

But if you visit the state, people are still carrying on much as before.

If you visit CA, you drive around and stay in motels and see the sights and eat in restaurants etc. and it mostly seems pretty nice to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 05, 2020, 10:27:01 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 05, 2020, 10:12:51 AM

It's actually 36%, second lowest native born population in the nation. Would bet these numbers have probably maintained similar as 1,000+ people a day have been moving to Florida every year for the past 10+ years.

"Just 36 percent of Florida's residents were born in Florida as of 2012. Only Nevada has a smaller native population, with only 25 percent of residents born in the state, but Nevada isn't so much a state as it is a collection of brothels and casinos in the desert anyway."

From Miami-New Times - https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/florida-has-the-second-fewest-native-residents-of-any-state-6548292

Well crap. I grabbed the wrong denominator. My mistake. Apologies.

Fortunately, your state is 16-20 percent Northeasterners, 21 percent foreigners and 11 percent midwesterners. Hat tip to your welcoming state and a wonderful country that allows such mobility that were a person is from is in many ways a superficial signifier. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 05, 2020, 10:28:26 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 05, 2020, 10:04:39 AM

Well here's the data of where people were born.

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/geographic-mobility/state-of-residence-place-of-birth-acs.html

73 percent. If you'd like to show me that 35 percent, I'd love to see it.

73 percent in the summer. 35 percent in the winter. Trust me. I see it happening before my eyes.

I'm surprised the coasts don't fall off when everyone shows up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 05, 2020, 10:33:41 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 05, 2020, 10:28:26 AM

73 percent in the summer. 35 percent in the winter. Trust me. I see it happening before my eyes.

I'm surprised the coasts don't fall off when everyone shows up.

Ehhh, I had my math wrong. Regardless, it shows the reality, we are a mobile populace, and our ownership of any one place is illusory at best. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 05, 2020, 10:34:22 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 05, 2020, 08:57:58 AM

@bwarbiany (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) ,

How was the Trackman experience?

I've demo ed clubs on a simulator, but not done a "fitting"

It was pretty cool. He had the Trackman as well as a full video setup. So he had me warm up and then start hitting some 7 iron shots, and after about 4 of those he already spotted an issue.

He was able to show me via video that my stance and address were textbook, my takeaway was right on plane, but at the top I was over-rotating and bringing my hands too vertical. My correction for that in the attempt to start my downswing was to bring the club back on a much too steep plane, leading to an outside-in club path (which was confirmed by the trackman). Which leads to trying to pull out of the swing to avoid chunking it, and is incredibly hard to time consistently to avoid either a chunked shot or hitting super thin (which unsurprisingly are two of my biggest bad shots).

We worked on a couple of things to keep me on plane at the top of the backswing and to focus on remaining on plane in the downswing, and although as a new movement it felt awkward the Trackman confirmed that it was completely fixing my club path. I was still leaving the club face a bit open and pushing the ball right, so he had me adjust a little on my takeaway (I was rotating my hands too early) and then strengthened my left hand grip slightly, and suddenly (confirmed by trackman) my club path and face angle at impact were perfect, and the trackman showed a perfect 167 yard 7 iron right down the middle. 

All that in 30 minutes. 

I've had lessons before, but at most all I've ever had was video, and that guy screwed me up horribly because he was a Moe Norman cultist. But if you can't tell from everything I've said in the COVID thread, I'm a data guy. The ability to correlate what I'm doing with what the Trackman was showing made the lesson much more effective to me. In a golf swing, you have what you think you're doing, and what it feels like you're doing, but it may not bear much resemblance to what the club is actually doing at impact. Video+Trackman+instruction was helpful, and that was 30 minutes.

I don't know how much I'll do lessons-wise, as they're freakin' expensive. But I firmly believe just based on those free 30 minutes that I'd get much more out of a lesson that includes the Trackman than one that does not. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 05, 2020, 10:36:23 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 05, 2020, 09:58:14 AM

California is a failed state. It wasn't that long ago that the state government was so deeply in debt that it was issuing IOU's to state employees instead of pay checks. Less than 10 years ago.

California has nearly 30% of all homeless people in this country. One state. 30% of all homelessness. Why is that? And the homeless are turning the big cities like LA and San Fransisco into a literal dumping ground.

People leaving doesn't have as much to do with property values. There are other parts of California they could move to that are cheap. And there are a lot of rich people with plenty of money that can afford the high property value in the in-demand areas like SF/LA that are fleeing because of the INSANE taxes. And the state is trying to- not sure if it has passed yet- but they were trying to go from 13.3% state income tax for top earners to 16.8% AND institute a state wealth tax as well- the first of it's kind in any state. And as part of that wealth tax- the cocksuckers were trying to tax wealthy people who left the state for up to 10 years.

#CaliforniaShitHole

Nobody wants to live here. It's too crowded.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 05, 2020, 10:43:45 AM

I knew a fellow in Cincy from the wine tastings.  We'd chat from time to time, and I mentioned we were headed to CA next week once to him.  That really lit him off, he delivered a veritable torrent about how horrible CA was and why would anyone go there.

I asked him when was the last time he had been there, and his response was "Never, and I hope never to go there too.".

His perspective was entirely from the "news".

Now, I can take a video around here and if that is all your know about ATL, I can create an illusion very easily that it is the land of milk and honey, OR a complete failed city that is all slums and homeless, easily.

The reality of course is that the city has nice spots, very nice spots, some so so spots that are a bit trashy, and some bad spots.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 05, 2020, 10:46:14 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 05, 2020, 10:34:22 AM

It was pretty cool. He had the Trackman as well as a full video setup. So he had me warm up and then start hitting some 7 iron shots, and after about 4 of those he already spotted an issue.

He was able to show me via video that my stance and address were textbook, my takeaway was right on plane, but at the top I was over-rotating and bringing my hands too vertical. My correction for that in the attempt to start my downswing was to bring the club back on a much too steep plane, leading to an outside-in club path (which was confirmed by the trackman). Which leads to trying to pull out of the swing to avoid chunking it, and is incredibly hard to time consistently to avoid either a chunked shot or hitting super thin (which unsurprisingly are two of my biggest bad shots).

We worked on a couple of things to keep me on plane at the top of the backswing and to focus on remaining on plane in the downswing, and although as a new movement it felt awkward the Trackman confirmed that it was completely fixing my club path. I was still leaving the club face a bit open and pushing the ball right, so he had me adjust a little on my takeaway (I was rotating my hands too early) and then strengthened my left hand grip slightly, and suddenly (confirmed by trackman) my club path and face angle at impact were perfect, and the trackman showed a perfect 167 yard 7 iron right down the middle.

All that in 30 minutes.

I've had lessons before, but at most all I've ever had was video, and that guy screwed me up horribly because he was a Moe Norman cultist. But if you can't tell from everything I've said in the COVID thread, I'm a data guy. The ability to correlate what I'm doing with what the Trackman was showing made the lesson much more effective to me. In a golf swing, you have what you think you're doing, and what it feels like you're doing, but it may not bear much resemblance to what the club is actually doing at impact. Video+Trackman+instruction was helpful, and that was 30 minutes.

I don't know how much I'll do lessons-wise, as they're freakin' expensive. But I firmly believe just based on those free 30 minutes that I'd get much more out of a lesson that includes the Trackman than one that does not.

very nice


I've never had a lesson, but I should.
I find that a minor adjustment in your grip can really help, such as strengthening your left hand

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 05, 2020, 11:36:38 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 05, 2020, 10:43:45 AM

I knew a fellow in Cincy from the wine tastings.  We'd chat from time to time, and I mentioned we were headed to CA next week once to him.  That really lit him off, he delivered a veritable torrent about how horrible CA was and why would anyone go there.

I asked him when was the last time he had been there, and his response was "Never, and I hope never to go there too.".

His perspective was entirely from the "news".

Now, I can take a video around here and if that is all your know about ATL, I can create an illusion very easily that it is the land of milk and honey, OR a complete failed city that is all slums and homeless, easily.

The reality of course is that the city has nice spots, very nice spots, some so so spots that are a bit trashy, and some bad spots.

Exactly. 40M people live here, and despite the fact that we do have net negative domestic migration (our rate is narrowly in the top 10 nationally (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_net_migration)), the population keeps growing through births and immigration. It's not like population here is decreasing.

We have problems. Taxes are high. Cost of living is high. Traffic sucks. Fiscally, our state is not in good shape, but we're hardly unique there. 

Homelessness is a problem, sure, but I also credit a portion of that to our amazing weather and the fact that panhandlers only beg because people give them stuff. If I were homeless, I'd much rather do it in Los Angeles than freezing to death in Minneapolis...

But California also has a lot of awesomeness. Weather, of course, is better IMHO than basically anywhere else in the nation. There's tons of natural beauty, from the oceans to the mountains to the Redwoods to the High Sierra. The high population density and high cultural mixing means that quite literally we are awash in cultural enrichment opportunities. There's TONS of things to do, whether it's beaches or hiking/mountain biking/skiing, or if you enjoy breweries or wineries, or plentiful restaurants of EVERY ethnic type and quality, or museums, or shopping, or whatever floats your boat. We have a very large and high quality university system. Oh, and there are JOBS. One of the things that attract people here in the first place is employment, and our job market is just fine. Which also means that people looking to change jobs for better opportunities have more chances than in areas where there are 1-2 dominant employers and those are your only options. 

California, like anywhere, has its positives and negatives. I personally have a theory that the more people WANT to live someplace, the worse taxation gets, because they know that people will put up with it to stay there. I.e. taxation is very high here BECAUSE people love living in California. The government knows that high-tax California is still more desirable than a lot of other low-tax areas.

The truth is that I'd definitely consider leaving California, and the reason [for me] is taxation and cost of living. That said, the list of places I'd consider leaving FOR is very, very small. Which to me suggests that California is NOT a shithole, because if it were I'd be casting a much wider net if I choose to leave. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SFBadger96 on November 05, 2020, 11:52:39 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 05, 2020, 10:36:23 AM

Nobody wants to live here. It's too crowded.

Exactly. That's why the median cost of a home in the Bay Area is $1M.

There are plenty of good reasons for people to leave California, the cost of living chief among them. And part of the cost of living is the tax burden, which is high, relatively speaking (although it depends a lot on your age, income, and property). The biggest factor in the cost of living, though, is the cost of housing, and that, my capitalist friends, is the result of a higher demand for the available supply.

And, as noted above, there are even more good reasons to live in California, which is why that supply and demand issue has gone the way it has.

But having spent a few years living in Wisconsin and Tennessee, I'm plenty aware of the perception of California as a crazy place. That's fine. Y'all can believe it if you want to.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 05, 2020, 11:54:27 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 05, 2020, 10:46:14 AM

very nice

I've never had a lesson, but I should.

I find that a minor adjustment in your grip can really help, such as strengthening your left hand

For me I want to avoid lessons as much as I can, because I'm still not a "serious" golfer. It's not like I'm going to be competing. So the ROI unless I'm really trying to get myself down to single digit handicap probably isn't worth it. I doubt I'm regularly going to see more than 20-25 full 18-hole rounds of golf a year.

If I can merely know what to practice to avoid horrible shots, I should be able to get myself inside of bogey golf with some consistent range time. All I'm looking for is consistent solid contact and distance, and a generally straight-ish ball flight. I figure I can get there with range time, and likely an equipment upgrade because my 20-year-old clubs are not anywhere near as forgiving and technologically advanced as these 460cc drivers and game improvement irons. 

For you, since you play MUCH more often than I do, and probably are competitive [i.e. betting] with your regular playing partners, lessons might be a good thing. You have more time to devote to your game and play often enough that your ROI is higher.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 05, 2020, 01:26:19 PM

I’m just half joking when I say California is a shit hole. It obviously isn’t.

Michigan however is a complete shit hole. In large part thanks to Detroit, Flint, and Pontiac. So glad I got out of that dumpster fire.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 05, 2020, 01:42:34 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 05, 2020, 10:00:47 AM

This is inaccurate. Last I read, less than 35% of Florida residents were actually born/native to Florida.

Seems like damn near half of South Florida has roots from NY/NJ.

35% is a comically-low number for anywhere.  Sheer common sense throws that number out the window, right?  C'mon, man.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 05, 2020, 02:41:51 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 05, 2020, 01:42:34 PM

35% is a comically-low number for anywhere.  Sheer common sense throws that number out the window, right?  C'mon, man.

It is, but after double checking, it's right. Florida is a state of immigrants from other states.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 05, 2020, 02:42:29 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 05, 2020, 01:26:19 PM

I’m just half joking when I say California is a shit hole. It obviously isn’t.

Michigan however is a complete shit hole. In large part thanks to Detroit, Flint, and Pontiac. So glad I got out of that dumpster fire.

I took the wife on a driving trip up through Michigan and the UP, stayed in Traverse City, really like it a lot, and then Marquette, also very nice place.  It was summer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SFBadger96 on November 05, 2020, 02:45:10 PM

I have been to places in many states--and the District of Columbia--that I didn't want to stay in any longer than I absolutely had to, and a few in which I felt downright unsafe (again, including in DC). But I have yet to visit a state that I thought was universally horrible (and I love visiting DC, just not all of it). I don't like excessive humidity and heat, so I'm not a huge fan of the deep south and Florida, but I've enjoyed visits to Atlanta and think it--and the areas outside of it--would likely be fine places to live. Houston doesn't resonate with me, though it's fair to point out that I have some pretty strong negative work affiliations with it. I enjoyed my visits to Dallas, loved Austin (though I hear its terrible, don't go there), lived in El Paso for a few seconds, and I've heard too many good things about San Antonio to think its horrible.

I have in-laws in New England and have spent a lot of time there. It's lovely, but not especially hospitable in the winter.

I'm a city dweller--or at least a fairly urban suburbanite, and I don't see myself living far out in any rural areas, though I've often thought a long vacation in the farmland of Wisconsin would be lovely, and I very much enjoy "the great outdoors" for recreation. If so much of my money weren't tied up in my mortgage and if I had more vacation days every year, I would love to have a cabin on a lake somewhere--Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Michigan all seem like excellent candidates for that sort of thing, and maybe upstate New York, Vermont, New Hampshire, or Maine, too. The good spots like that on the west coast are already pretty cost prohibitive.

End of pointless ramble.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 05, 2020, 02:50:37 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/K6q6sy5.jpg)


The tree that was toppled in the park.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 05, 2020, 02:55:19 PM

I agree with sfbadger.  I have found good and bad everywhere. 

I don't like cold long winters.  I lived in the suburbs all my life until 2+ years ago except for my college years.

Life in a fairly big city is quite different of course, but more varied and interesting.  And there are "suburbs" just north of us, regular residential areas with large houses, and small shopping mall in walking distance with a Kroger and  a Publix and a wine store (I don't go there any more) and some other places.  I like being able to walk to restaurants, the symphony, the art museum, the botanical garden, the park.

We have one car now and it's plenty.

There is a park in Paris I've always admired, Parc Monceau, that has midrise apartments overlooking it.  The wife says they run well into the millions of euros.  This place reminds me a bit of that, sans the millions of euros.  So, I'm happy here.

The property and sales taxes are a bite though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 05, 2020, 03:40:09 PM

https://www.midtownatl.com/about/news-center/post/sky-high-drone-pics-capture-the-latest-development-activity

Some of the construction going up near us.  I wonder how the COVID situation is going to change office space permanently of course.  

I like watching these things get built, it is rather amazing to me what humans can do, when they build instead of destroy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 05, 2020, 03:42:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 05, 2020, 03:40:09 PM

https://www.midtownatl.com/about/news-center/post/sky-high-drone-pics-capture-the-latest-development-activity

Some of the construction going up near us.  I wonder how the COVID situation is going to change office space permanently of course. 

I like watching these things get built, it is rather amazing to me what humans can do, when they build instead of destroy.

A lot of effort for something that'll only stand five years :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 06, 2020, 08:58:35 AM

It now appears Georgia will have TWO US Senate runoffs in January.  TWO.

Holy cow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 06, 2020, 09:00:28 AM

Yep, and that will decide the Senate. Scary stuff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 06, 2020, 09:22:26 AM

Those elections will also be very close.   This state is officially Purple now.  I moved here to get away from a battle ground state.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 06, 2020, 09:24:46 AM

You didn't see that coming?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 06, 2020, 09:31:21 AM

I came here for the waters.


It's another glorious day here, 61°F at the moment, blue skies, some cirrus out there.  No rain forecast until Tuesday, highs in the low 70s each day.  I can tolerate TV advertising because I don't watch network TV unless the wife turns on the news (which she likes to do, but she has a TV in the bedroom and in her office.

I had asked the manager of Silverlake Ramen if I could buy one of their shirts because they are KA, and he gave me one when last we dined there.  They opened at a bad time and are struggling to get going now, they do quite a bit of take out.  I'm told their locations in LA are often mobbed with people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 06, 2020, 09:39:46 AM

Awesome weather in Columbus. Should be in 70s all weekend. Might get to watch some football outside tomorrow. What should I grill?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 06, 2020, 09:44:48 AM

The wife loves lobster.  I'm rather indifferent to it, it's fine, but expensive generally.  I do like snow crab a lot.

Kroger has these frozen lobster tails, two for $6, so I buy two (x 2) for $12 and grill them, and they turn out pretty well, she liked them.  They were OK to me, but I can eat almost anything (not liver).

I could probably get better lobster at Costco, perhaps, and certainly in Boston.  We have a Legal Seafood around here somewhere I see.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 06, 2020, 09:50:04 AM

Stone crab tonight.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 06, 2020, 10:11:43 AM

Interesting idea.


https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-france-borders-macron-idUKKBN27L1YE

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 06, 2020, 10:16:21 AM

Rethink .... how exactly?

Seems like talk to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 06, 2020, 10:18:01 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 06, 2020, 10:11:43 AM

Interesting idea.


https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-france-borders-macron-idUKKBN27L1YE

Always laugh at the open border idiots. 

Can’t have a country if you don’t have strong borders. 

Maybe if the US and it’s NATO puppets- of which France is one- would stop destabilizing and destroying these countries in the Middle East, there wouldn’t be any refugees fleeing to Europe in the first place? Gee, what a novel concept.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 06, 2020, 10:32:19 AM

And why is there a migration crisis in Europe? The Democratic Party of Obama/Biden/Clinton ladies and gents. Get ready for more war & destruction! Awesome. Can’t wait! This guy should have all charges dismissed and have a statue built- for sure he will now be thrown in a cage for the rest of his life. You can bet on that google anti-trust suite magically disappearing as well.

https://youtu.be/04MDYW1oEe0

https://youtu.be/TACfQT3Th3k

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 06, 2020, 10:50:41 AM

Costco has been selling whole lambs. Not sure if it's seasonal, but man do I want to try one.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 06, 2020, 10:53:15 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 06, 2020, 10:50:41 AM

Costco has been selling whole lambs. Not sure if it's seasonal, but man do I want to try one. 

Ooh, that could be fun. I wonder how much it would freak out the kids lol...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 06, 2020, 10:59:35 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 06, 2020, 10:50:41 AM

Costco has been selling whole lambs. Not sure if it's seasonal, but man do I want to try one. 

Do you know how to butcher?

I've tried and I'm not too good (arthritis). 

You can get your gyro meat!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 06, 2020, 11:24:06 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 06, 2020, 10:59:35 AM

Do you know how to butcher?

I've tried and I'm not too good (arthritis).

You can get your gyro meat!!

I think they come cleaned. I would probably cook it whole, barbacoa style, so no need to cut things off.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 06, 2020, 11:24:48 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 06, 2020, 10:53:15 AM

Ooh, that could be fun. I wonder how much it would freak out the kids lol...

We did a pig when my oldest turned 8. The second one is about to turn 8, so she needs some sort of whole animal

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 06, 2020, 11:26:37 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 06, 2020, 11:24:06 AM

I think they come cleaned. I would probably cook it whole, barbacoa style, so no need to cut things off.

Hmm. I think I'd want the chops and roasts, at least. You can do the shanks whole in that style.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 06, 2020, 11:41:42 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 05, 2020, 10:43:45 AM

I knew a fellow in Cincy from the wine tastings.  We'd chat from time to time, and I mentioned we were headed to CA next week once to him.  That really lit him off, he delivered a veritable torrent about how horrible CA was and why would anyone go there.

I asked him when was the last time he had been there, and his response was "Never, and I hope never to go there too.".

His perspective was entirely from the "news".

Now, I can take a video around here and if that is all your know about ATL, I can create an illusion very easily that it is the land of milk and honey, OR a complete failed city that is all slums and homeless, easily.

The reality of course is that the city has nice spots, very nice spots, some so so spots that are a bit trashy, and some bad spots.

It's funny, as a Californian who now lives in the south, I have, not exactly the reverse of that, but a version of it. Friends sort of pass on the idea of living down here, citing this or that. But I'm convinced the thing that makes home home is a passing familiarity and family. I might be weird weird.

It's funny because I went to north GA on a trip and thought, well, this isn't that much different from far north Ca. Stumbled into a small winery off a two-lane road. It was nice.

States are big, cool diverse places by and large. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 06, 2020, 11:45:09 AM

The more we travel, the more we learn that humans everywhere are pretty much like us, with some exceptions.

We have a lot in this country they don't have elsewhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 09, 2020, 04:03:41 PM

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/german-scientist-discovers-x-rays?cmpid=email-hist-tdih-2020-1108-11082020&om_rid=fe8126916eb5368f71b1425f9ccb663e2757bd6c092fc3b2d9170e0b5a87289a&fbclid=IwAR0cSCceU9-rnBRKyfBzowmBbnje5XQLxKOaqC0r74F2HpFBJ_ZrFwH-UYo

On this day in history, X-rays discovered.

Tomorrow is some notable anniversary as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 10, 2020, 08:52:58 AM

So, today is a notable anniversary/birthday, as we all are aware of course.

SF.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 10, 2020, 09:04:41 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 06, 2020, 10:59:35 AM

Do you know how to butcher?

I've tried and I'm not too good (arthritis).

You can get your gyro meat!!

This reminds me of the Miss Navajo pageant.  There ain't no bikinis, but one portion of the judging is butchering a sheep.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 10, 2020, 09:23:52 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 10, 2020, 09:04:41 AM

This reminds me of the Miss Navajo pageant.  There ain't no bikinis, but one portion of the judging is butchering a sheep. 

Practical has hell. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 10, 2020, 09:42:25 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 10, 2020, 08:52:58 AM

So, today is a notable anniversary/birthday, as we all are aware of course.

SF.

??? I know the Edmund Fitzgerald went down on this date in'75.Many of the crewman were from NE.Ohio.One from my community.Veterans Day is tomorrow,so......

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 10, 2020, 10:36:07 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 10, 2020, 09:42:25 AM

??? I know the Edmund Fitzgerald went down on this date in'75.Many of the crewman were from NE.Ohio.One from my community.Veterans Day is tomorrow,so......

That song is a real downer to play at bars. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 10, 2020, 10:37:21 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 10, 2020, 10:36:07 AM

That song is a real downer to play at bars.

Also when you are on a boat in open water.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 10, 2020, 10:57:03 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 10, 2020, 10:36:07 AM

That song is a real downer to play at bars.

Or driving along the North Shore in bad weather.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 11:37:59 AM

does anybody else find it ironic that Stephen Colbert went from parodying a blowhard...to actually becoming one?

I used to love his Colbert Report Show. He was hilarious. Now his late night show is horrible and he is just so phony and insufferable. He went the wrong route- none of those network late night shows are any good- they are all just so astonishingly terrible. The last good one imo was Conan- and NBC fired him to bring back the dinosaur Leno.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 11:38:39 AM

also ironic- 

2016 Dems - RUSSIA RIGGED THIS ELECTION! 

2020 Dems - ELECTIONS CAN'T BE RIGGED!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 10, 2020, 11:39:52 AM

Late night shows at my age are not a "thing" for me.  I thought one thing I'd surely do after retirement is sleep late.  Doesn't happen, ever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 10, 2020, 11:41:39 AM

Man, I used to own Illinois properties and now I'm really glad I got out of that business. This has not been a problem with our California holdings. People are paying.


But you know who else is hurting? Landlords, many of whom own only a few properties and depend on rental payments to cover their own bills. Pritzker’s orders treat them as a public resource to be tapped at will, without much regard for their own needs. The Chicago City Council also has issued stricter rules on landlords who decide not to renew leases.

There are some obvious problems here. These measures don’t provide help to property owners struggling to pay mortgages and property taxes, not to mention maintenance costs. “My landlords are very desperate,” Chicago lawyer Carol Oshana told WBEZ. (https://www.wbez.org/stories/the-government-is-protecting-renters-but-who-is-looking-out-for-small-landlords/f635eda0-fda0-4c44-b009-93c6d49343eb) “They have (renters who) are working but don’t want to pay.”

Tenants, in theory, are obligated to make up all the missed payments once the moratorium ends, but that’s cold comfort for owners who need income now — and who may never be able to collect what they’re owed. Michael Glasser, president of the Neighborhood Building Owners Alliance in an October commentary, (https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-opinion-eviction-moratorium-coronavirus-pritzker-20201009-acrnrbasfrcdbbeqz476yuqsqq-story.html) said there aren’t enough safeguards in the moratorium to weed out those cheating the system, the ones who aren’t paying because they know they don’t have to.

“Housing certainly is a necessity, but so are food and medicine. We don’t require grocery stores to provide free food, nor pharmacies to provide free medicine. Yet we require housing providers, including our smaller, more vulnerable neighborhood housing providers, to offer housing for free regardless of the circumstances,” he wrote.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 10, 2020, 11:52:13 AM

Hoping that the politics here can disappear again... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 10, 2020, 11:54:03 AM

Saturn and Jupiter are in very close conjunction in the western sky after sunset.  It's an unusual event.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 10, 2020, 11:58:30 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 10, 2020, 11:52:13 AM

Hoping that the politics here can disappear again...

That snipped article was not about politics. It was about policy.

They are not the same.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 10, 2020, 12:08:12 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 10, 2020, 11:58:30 AM

That snipped article was not about politics. It was about policy.

They are not the same.

A few posts above yours, Badge.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 10, 2020, 12:58:22 PM

Just to be clear, I haven't been deleting political posts on this thread, just the Coronavirus thread.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 12:59:58 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 10, 2020, 12:08:12 PM

A few posts above yours, Badge.

that wasn't politics either. They were observations based in fact. Who said a word about politics? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 01:06:00 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 10, 2020, 11:41:39 AM

Man, I used to own Illinois properties and now I'm really glad I got out of that business. This has not been a problem with our California holdings. People are paying.


But you know who else is hurting? Landlords, many of whom own only a few properties and depend on rental payments to cover their own bills. Pritzker’s orders treat them as a public resource to be tapped at will, without much regard for their own needs. The Chicago City Council also has issued stricter rules on landlords who decide not to renew leases.

There are some obvious problems here. These measures don’t provide help to property owners struggling to pay mortgages and property taxes, not to mention maintenance costs. “My landlords are very desperate,” Chicago lawyer Carol Oshana told WBEZ. (https://www.wbez.org/stories/the-government-is-protecting-renters-but-who-is-looking-out-for-small-landlords/f635eda0-fda0-4c44-b009-93c6d49343eb) “They have (renters who) are working but don’t want to pay.”

Tenants, in theory, are obligated to make up all the missed payments once the moratorium ends, but that’s cold comfort for owners who need income now — and who may never be able to collect what they’re owed. Michael Glasser, president of the Neighborhood Building Owners Alliance in an October commentary, (https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-opinion-eviction-moratorium-coronavirus-pritzker-20201009-acrnrbasfrcdbbeqz476yuqsqq-story.html) said there aren’t enough safeguards in the moratorium to weed out those cheating the system, the ones who aren’t paying because they know they don’t have to.

“Housing certainly is a necessity, but so are food and medicine. We don’t require grocery stores to provide free food, nor pharmacies to provide free medicine. Yet we require housing providers, including our smaller, more vulnerable neighborhood housing providers, to offer housing for free regardless of the circumstances,” he wrote.

Illinois sucks. Chicago is cool, but if I was going to live in an over-crowded, big city, New York would be by far the choice to go. It's just a way better city with better food. And it's almost unbelievable just based on the sheer size of New York and how much bigger it is than Chicago- but it is incredibly more safe and spectacularly less corrupt than Chicago.

Nothing was addressed by the federal gov't to help small landlords or every day people struggling with rent/mortgages. What did they do? Give people a one time $1,200 check and pass a corporate bail out worth that's at least $6 trillion- maybe even upwards of $10 trillion.  

The federal gov't is a joke. It's not just one person or party, it's both parties and it's all of them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 10, 2020, 01:11:52 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 10, 2020, 12:58:22 PM

Just to be clear, I haven't been deleting political posts on this thread, just the Coronavirus thread. 

Thinking about deleting this post.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 10, 2020, 01:12:13 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 12:59:58 PM

that wasn't politics either. They were observations based in fact. Who said a word about politics?

It was not factual, it was a clear distortion. And the clear intent was to suggest that one political party are hypocrites. 

Which is of course easy to do, because both parties are. They make whatever argument benefits them today, regardless of what they've done in the past. 

But I was tempted to argue the point with you, and I'd really like to see this board return to being about college sports (and alcohol, and cooking, and other randomness). 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 10, 2020, 01:13:47 PM

In other news, many of us for the most part handled the politics pretty well, a lot better than I've seen some "friends" do on Facebook.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 10, 2020, 01:17:21 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 12:59:58 PM

that wasn't politics either. They were observations based in fact. Who said a word about politics?

Because something is an observation based on a fact doesn't mean it can't be political. The two are functionally independent. It's also catnip for more argumentation on that very subject. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 10, 2020, 01:21:37 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 10, 2020, 11:41:39 AM

Man, I used to own Illinois properties and now I'm really glad I got out of that business. This has not been a problem with our California holdings. People are paying.


But you know who else is hurting? Landlords, many of whom own only a few properties and depend on rental payments to cover their own bills. Pritzker’s orders treat them as a public resource to be tapped at will, without much regard for their own needs. The Chicago City Council also has issued stricter rules on landlords who decide not to renew leases.

There are some obvious problems here. These measures don’t provide help to property owners struggling to pay mortgages and property taxes, not to mention maintenance costs. “My landlords are very desperate,” Chicago lawyer Carol Oshana told WBEZ. (https://www.wbez.org/stories/the-government-is-protecting-renters-but-who-is-looking-out-for-small-landlords/f635eda0-fda0-4c44-b009-93c6d49343eb) “They have (renters who) are working but don’t want to pay.”

Tenants, in theory, are obligated to make up all the missed payments once the moratorium ends, but that’s cold comfort for owners who need income now — and who may never be able to collect what they’re owed. Michael Glasser, president of the Neighborhood Building Owners Alliance in an October commentary, (https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-opinion-eviction-moratorium-coronavirus-pritzker-20201009-acrnrbasfrcdbbeqz476yuqsqq-story.html) said there aren’t enough safeguards in the moratorium to weed out those cheating the system, the ones who aren’t paying because they know they don’t have to.

“Housing certainly is a necessity, but so are food and medicine. We don’t require grocery stores to provide free food, nor pharmacies to provide free medicine. Yet we require housing providers, including our smaller, more vulnerable neighborhood housing providers, to offer housing for free regardless of the circumstances,” he wrote.

Land lording on average is a tough deal during good times. So much luck if you're down to a few tenants, downright brutal on both sides if you're on the lower-income end. 

This mostly isn't good policy, though the market answer is to just turn up homelessness. And in the end the landlords still take a loss of some sort, though less of one. That market was in line for a contraction at some point. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 10, 2020, 01:24:38 PM

Hello, floodgates.  


Mdot's post might as well be pro-flat earth.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 01:30:01 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 10, 2020, 01:24:38 PM

Hello, floodgates. 


Mdot's post might as well be pro-flat earth. 

you are delusional. the earth is a triangle. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 10, 2020, 01:30:53 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 10, 2020, 01:21:37 PM

Land lording on average is a tough deal during good times. So much luck if you're down to a few tenants, downright brutal on both sides if you're on the lower-income end.

This mostly isn't good policy, though the market answer is to just turn up homelessness. And in the end the landlords still take a loss of some sort, though less of one. That market was in line for a contraction at some point.

Wondering how this will affect residential real estate...

I want to be able to buy in to this SoCal market, but not at these levels. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 10, 2020, 01:32:12 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 10, 2020, 01:30:53 PM

Wondering how this will affect residential real estate...

I want to be able to buy in to this SoCal market, but not at these levels.

We picked up most of our holdings in 2012. We're 98 percent rented (150 units).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 01:34:04 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 10, 2020, 01:12:13 PM

It was not factual, it was a clear distortion. And the clear intent was to suggest that one political party are hypocrites.

Which is of course easy to do, because both parties are. They make whatever argument benefits them today, regardless of what they've done in the past.

It is factual, and it's not a clear distortion. 

I was merely pointing out ASTOUNDING levels of hypocrisy by a bunch of assholes. Has nothing to do with politics, never suggested any election was rigged- because- you know there has to be evidence for that- and as far as I can see- there is like no evidence for 2016 or 2020.

But it is F'NG hilarious that was the narrative in 2016- RUSSIA RIGGED IT! Launched RIDICULOUS investigations/impeachment hearings. Now in 2020- ELECTIONS CANNOT BE RIGGED! It's downright hilarious- and not political at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 01:36:45 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 10, 2020, 01:30:53 PM

Wondering how this will affect residential real estate...

I want to be able to buy in to this SoCal market, but not at these levels.

Residential real estate in South Florida is going bonkers and continues to go to this day. Especially the higher end luxury market. That's single family stuff though. The high-rise/condo stuff has slowed down a bit- but it's always strong bc South Florida is an international playground of the rich. Every rich asshole in the world has a multi-million dollar vacation condo in South Florida.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 10, 2020, 01:42:39 PM

It's got to be hard to be taken seriously when you're playing word games with 'rigged' and 'influenced'.  Laughing off the former as absurd and ignoring the avalanche of evidence for the latter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 10, 2020, 01:44:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 10, 2020, 01:11:52 PM

Thinking about deleting this post.

Ha!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 10, 2020, 03:14:55 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 01:34:04 PM

It is factual, and it's not a clear distortion.

I was merely pointing out ASTOUNDING levels of hypocrisy by a bunch of assholes. Has nothing to do with politics, never suggested any election was rigged- because- you know there has to be evidence for that- and as far as I can see- there is like no evidence for 2016 or 2020.

But it is F'NG hilarious that was the narrative in 2016- RUSSIA RIGGED IT! Launched RIDICULOUS investigations/impeachment hearings. Now in 2020- ELECTIONS CANNOT BE RIGGED! It's downright hilarious- and not political at all.

No. Words mean things. People here [rightly, IMHO] jump on OAM because he'll often make some bombastic statement or statement with no possible nuance and when challenged say "you know what I meant."

In 2016, the Russians did not rig the election and no credible source anywhere has claimed they did. To "rig" an election would be to mess with the vote such that legitimate votes were not counted, illegitimate votes were cast and counted, or the vote totals were changed/modified, and thus the outcome of the election was NOT what the voters actually cast their ballots for. 

In 2016, the Russians engaged in a state-sponsored campaign [mostly via social media as I understand it with the aid of biased news web sites] to spread misinformation and disinformation and influence the outcome of the election. Essentially all they did was try to change perception of one candidate relative to the other. Basically they were surreptitiously campaigning for Trump, not rigging an election. However, in no possible way can this be called "rigging" an election. 

None of what the Russians did would really be actionable, to be honest. If the Trump campaign had colluded with them, however, that would have been a major problem. But that wasn't proven. 

It's now 2020. The claims are that the election was rigged, that it's a fraud, that fraudulent votes were cast, that the counts are incorrect, etc. This is a much different claim than what the Democrats claimed about 2016. 

That's why it is not factual. The Democrats didn't claim in 2016 that Russia rigged the election, they claimed that Russia was influencing the election for Trump and believed that Trump colluded with Russia to do so. The didn't claim that the vote wasn't legitimate. Now the Republicans are claiming that the election was actually rigged and the vote counts aren't legitimate.

Two different claims. You're the one putting words in the 2016 Dems' mouths here to claim it's hypocrisy, but that's not accurate. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 10, 2020, 03:25:51 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/BxpbkSr.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 10, 2020, 03:26:41 PM

https://scontent-atl3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p600x600/124773184_10223551850285334_5342466274255629182_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=2&_nc_sid=09cbfe&_nc_ohc=LaBu7WXG7rYAX9LgfMA&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-2.xx&tp=6&oh=3f3c93d8d889b9acd4d0547d43ef8cd9&oe=5FD254CC

If you are interested in the details of the various stages of electing a President, not meant to be political, and I'm sure some think this is archaic, but it's what exists.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 10, 2020, 03:33:39 PM

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/nazis-launch-kristallnacht?cmpid=email-hist-tdih-2020-1109-11092020&om_rid=fe8126916eb5368f71b1425f9ccb663e2757bd6c092fc3b2d9170e0b5a87289a&fbclid=IwAR1tOLeJ28jW1Hx7qy9Q8pgh0Ziawsoy7elVDN-7XQ7f2MiHLlmDxI0alIc

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 10, 2020, 04:12:22 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 10, 2020, 03:14:55 PM

No. Words mean things. People here [rightly, IMHO] jump on OAM because he'll often make some bombastic statement or statement with no possible nuance and when challenged say "you know what I meant."

In 2016, the Russians did not rig the election and no credible source anywhere has claimed they did. To "rig" an election would be to mess with the vote such that legitimate votes were not counted, illegitimate votes were cast and counted, or the vote totals were changed/modified, and thus the outcome of the election was NOT what the voters actually cast their ballots for.

In 2016, the Russians engaged in a state-sponsored campaign [mostly via social media as I understand it with the aid of biased news web sites] to spread misinformation and disinformation and influence the outcome of the election. Essentially all they did was try to change perception of one candidate relative to the other. Basically they were surreptitiously campaigning for Trump, not rigging an election. However, in no possible way can this be called "rigging" an election.

None of what the Russians did would really be actionable, to be honest. If the Trump campaign had colluded with them, however, that would have been a major problem. But that wasn't proven.

It's now 2020. The claims are that the election was rigged, that it's a fraud, that fraudulent votes were cast, that the counts are incorrect, etc. This is a much different claim than what the Democrats claimed about 2016.

That's why it is not factual. The Democrats didn't claim in 2016 that Russia rigged the election, they claimed that Russia was influencing the election for Trump and believed that Trump colluded with Russia to do so. The didn't claim that the vote wasn't legitimate. Now the Republicans are claiming that the election was actually rigged and the vote counts aren't legitimate.

Two different claims. You're the one putting words in the 2016 Dems' mouths here to claim it's hypocrisy, but that's not accurate.

Well let's be clear who you're talking about when you say "The Democrats" in the above.  Are you talking about the DNC?  Hillary herself?  Or just people that vote Democrat?  Or people in the media that choose to report things in... how should I say it... a "Democrat-slanted manner?"

Because I know quite a few people that voted for Hillary, and who didn't understand exactly what was done with respect to Russian influence, and who most assuredly stated outright that Trump and the RNC and the Russians rigged the election.   And there were also, most certainly, some... "Democrat-slanted media members"... who reported it that way as well.

They might have meant something else, but that's not what they said-- they said it was rigged, and further they were certain that there was conclusive proof that there was collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians. 

I'm not disagreeing with the spirit of what you're saying, but since I agree with you that words mean something, I think it's important to be clear about who and what we're talking about.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 10, 2020, 04:27:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 10, 2020, 03:26:41 PM

https://scontent-atl3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p600x600/124773184_10223551850285334_5342466274255629182_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=2&_nc_sid=09cbfe&_nc_ohc=LaBu7WXG7rYAX9LgfMA&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-2.xx&tp=6&oh=3f3c93d8d889b9acd4d0547d43ef8cd9&oe=5FD254CC

If you are interested in the details of the various stages of electing a President, not meant to be political, and I'm sure some think this is archaic, but it's what exists.

There's a picture of a guy in uniform who resembles Urban Meyer but no details
PS - what's the cake say?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 10, 2020, 04:29:03 PM

Meh, my bad.  That is Lt. Col, Greiner.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 04:44:37 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 10, 2020, 04:12:22 PM

Well let's be clear who you're talking about when you say "The Democrats" in the above.  Are you talking about the DNC?  Hillary herself?  Or just people that vote Democrat?  Or people in the media that choose to report things in... how should I say it... a "Democrat-slanted manner?"

Because I know quite a few people that voted for Hillary, and who didn't understand exactly what was done with respect to Russian influence, and who most assuredly stated outright that Trump and the RNC and the Russians rigged the election.  And there were also, most certainly, some... "Democrat-slanted media members"... who reported it that way as well.

They might have meant something else, but that's not what they said-- they said it was rigged, and further they were certain that there was conclusive proof that there was collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians. 

I'm not disagreeing with the spirit of what you're saying, but since I agree with you that words mean something, I think it's important to be clear about who and what we're talking about.

Yeah I didn't respond because I didn't want to get into it- and I was trying to heed your warnings of no more political talk- but his post was pretty naive- at best.

We had about 3+ years of evidence-free based conspiracies and out-landish media coverage on MSNBC/CNN saying Russia "hacked" the election, you had people go on TV and say was the "greatest attack on America SINCE 9-11 or Pearl Harbor!"- that Trump colluded with Russia and is a Russian puppet- oh I distinctly remember Chris Hayes on MSNBC bringing some idiot writer named Jonathan Chait on TV- who speaking of college football msg boards- Chait actually posts on the Michigan Rivals message board- go on TV and say that Trump may have been a Russian asset since 1987. This literally happened. It was non-stop wall-to-wall coverage. MSNBC and CNN brought on disgraced ex-spooks like John Brennan and James Clapper to openly lie without a shred of evidence backing up any of their obvious false claims- for 3+ years. Pretty standard operation procedure here- if a CIA/NSA spook is going on TV to tell you something- yeah- it's not true. You want to talk about disinformation- who do you think the kings of the universe of disinformation are....lol...our CIA/NSA- that's who.

The Russians did very little to "interfere" with the election. Anyone who says they did honestly cannot be taken seriously. The rest of the world laughed at the US when those claims were going through the US media.

Oh- and by the way- the US doesn't interfere with elections. Like EVER. Lol. Oh- and another by the way- the US didn't "hack" a Russian election in the '90s. They outright rigged it. Lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 10, 2020, 04:59:36 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 10, 2020, 04:12:22 PM

Well let's be clear who you're talking about when you say "The Democrats" in the above.  Are you talking about the DNC?  Hillary herself?  Or just people that vote Democrat?  Or people in the media that choose to report things in... how should I say it... a "Democrat-slanted manner?"

Because I know quite a few people that voted for Hillary, and who didn't understand exactly what was done with respect to Russian influence, and who most assuredly stated outright that Trump and the RNC and the Russians rigged the election.  And there were also, most certainly, some... "Democrat-slanted media members"... who reported it that way as well.

They might have meant something else, but that's not what they said-- they said it was rigged, and further they were certain that there was conclusive proof that there was collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians. 

I'm not disagreeing with the spirit of what you're saying, but since I agree with you that words mean something, I think it's important to be clear about who and what we're talking about.

Listen, there are dumb people everywhere. People who don't understand what's going on, on a good day, being asked to understand complicated things like what Russia was actually doing in 2016.

And sometimes what people say isn't what other people hear, which is why I'm so adamant about words meaning things.

I don't recall anyone in the Democrat "establishment" claiming the election was rigged. By which I mean Hillary, higher-ups in the DNC, prominent Democrat House or Senate members, etc. I also don't recall anyone in the mainstream media using the term "rigged".

I believe I heard the term "interference" out of a large number of them... Which itself can be a much more charged word than influence. Interference comes with it the connotation that something is being done wrongly, or crossing a boundary.

That said, we know our own government "influences" foreign elections and events. I'm sure the locals there call it interference. Just as we call what Russia did interference, and I'm sure they call it influence.

I don't doubt that you know Democrats who used the term "rigged". Just as the forum at the bottom of this site is replete with a bunch of people who will parrot every one of the far-fetched and most deranged conspiracy theories of the right.

If we sat there and said that "X doesn't say Y", and looked at the dumbest and most easily-led subset of "X", you'll find someone who says "Y". So I am naturally referring to the ones with power, influence, position, etc at or near the top. They weren't saying "rigged".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 10, 2020, 05:06:44 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/02/politics/elizabeth-warren-dnc-rigged/index.html

Warren said it was rigged, but she was referring to the primary in this case.  The term "rigged", as noted, means different things to different people.

https://www.mynews13.com/fl/orlando/politics/2020/08/25/hillary-clinton-tells-joe-biden-to--not-concede-under-any-circumstances-

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 05:17:46 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 10, 2020, 05:06:44 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/02/politics/elizabeth-warren-dnc-rigged/index.html

Warren said it was rigged, but she was referring to the primary in this case.  The term "rigged", as noted, means different things to different people.

the DNC absolutely rigged the primary in 2016 in order for Hillary to secure the nomination. The WikiLeaks dumps showed this, and then DNC head Debbie Wasserman Schultz' (who by the way, used to work for Hillary) resignation and former DNC insider Donna Brazille confirmed it. 

Damn shame, because Bernie would've won in 2016. The Democrats were running against one of the most unlikeable people ever in Trump. The only problem is- they rigged their primary in order to run an even more unlikeable person than Trump. Trump also talked a great game- running on a clearly phony populist message he obviously didn't believe in- I mean- the dude is a billionaire...c'mon man.

Instead of taking a real hard look at the failing state of party and the rampant corruption within it, they scream Russia for 4 years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 10, 2020, 05:20:49 PM

In other news, since I had the China Virus back in March and then recovered, I went on a weight loss mission.

Not a diet, a lifestyle change. I still eat what I like and drink (too much). It's about when and why you eat. Pretty cool.

I started April 8.

Hit the 40 pound mark today. 

Gonna go for another 30 still. Should be done by April.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 10, 2020, 05:26:21 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 10, 2020, 04:59:36 PM

If we sat there and said that "X doesn't say Y", and looked at the dumbest and most easily-led subset of "X", you'll find someone who says "Y". So I am naturally referring to the ones with power, influence, position, etc at or near the top. They weren't saying "rigged".

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/16/us/politics/hillary-clinton-russia-fbi-comey.html
 What is she saying then,there are so many articles saying she did precicely that.Because their take isn't the same as yours doesn't make them dumb.I agree with 94 and MDot Clinton's camp threw a lot of shit hoping it would stick

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 05:29:13 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 10, 2020, 05:20:49 PM

In other news, since I had the China Virus back in March and then recovered, I went on a weight loss mission.

Not a diet, a lifestyle change. I still eat what I like and drink (too much). It's about when and why you eat. Pretty cool.

I started April 8.

Hit the 40 pound mark today.

Gonna go for another 30 still. Should be done by April.

Nice! Keep up the good work. I gained a shit ton of weight during the quarantine from March to May. I have yet to lose it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 10, 2020, 05:29:48 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 10, 2020, 05:20:49 PM

In other news, since I had the China Virus back in March and then recovered, I went on a weight loss mission.

Not a diet, a lifestyle change. I still eat what I like and drink (too much). It's about when and why you eat. Pretty cool.

I started April 8.

Hit the 40 pound mark today.

Gonna go for another 30 still. Should be done by April.

Congrats, Badge! That's excellent!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 10, 2020, 05:31:11 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 10, 2020, 05:20:49 PM

In other news, since I had the China Virus back in March and then recovered, I went on a weight loss mission.

Not a diet, a lifestyle change. I still eat what I like and drink (too much). It's about when and why you eat. Pretty cool.

Kudos,Never had to watch my weight that much but choestrol is another story and sometimes BP.Best advice I received was write down everything you eat.Is it cleansing or clogging - in other words stay a natural as possible.I eat alot of steamed veggies and raw fruit along with Brats.pork and sirloins and an occasional pie - pizza and fruit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 05:32:09 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 10, 2020, 04:59:36 PM

I don't recall anyone in the Democrat "establishment" claiming the election was rigged. By which I mean Hillary, higher-ups in the DNC, prominent Democrat House or Senate members, etc. I also don't recall anyone in the mainstream media using the term "rigged".

No, they just went on TV for 3+ years and peddled evidence-free based conspiracies that we were just "attacked in the worst attack since Pearl Harbor!" - that Trump colluded with Russia to win the election, and that Putin was in control of the Executive Branch of the US gov't. This was prominent democrats saying this sort of junk. Lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2020, 05:33:25 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 10, 2020, 05:20:49 PM

In other news, since I had the China Virus back in March and then recovered, I went on a weight loss mission.

Not a diet, a lifestyle change. I still eat what I like and drink (too much). It's about when and why you eat. Pretty cool.

I started April 8.

Hit the 40 pound mark today.

Gonna go for another 30 still. Should be done by April.

nice work

I should do something like that.  but it seems uncomfortable

I'm doing some fasting to see if I get results.  Started yesterday.  I'm patient.
my exercise is going to drop since the golf courses closed.
my Bud Fat intake should drop as well, but..... it's too early to call

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 10, 2020, 05:34:28 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 05:17:46 PM

Damn shame, because Bernie would've won in 2016. The Democrats were running against one of the most unlikeable people ever in Trump. 

Pelosi and Hillary say hello

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 10, 2020, 05:36:12 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 10, 2020, 05:33:25 PM

my Bud Fat intake should drop as well, but..... it's too early to call

After CFB season as 94 does.Oh and you can always cross country ski

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 10, 2020, 05:38:15 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 10, 2020, 05:20:49 PM

In other news, since I had the China Virus back in March and then recovered, I went on a weight loss mission.

Not a diet, a lifestyle change. I still eat what I like and drink (too much). It's about when and why you eat. Pretty cool.

I started April 8.

Hit the 40 pound mark today.

Gonna go for another 30 still. Should be done by April.

Congrats my friend!

Here in the USA one of our biggest enemies is portion control.  And eating way too quickly, which is related.

Keep it up!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 05:41:06 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 10, 2020, 05:34:28 PM

Pelosi and Hillary say hello

Yeah, that was my very next line in that same post you quoted lol- that DNC just so happened to rig their primary in order to astonishingly run one of the few people that is actually more unlikeable than Trump.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 10, 2020, 05:42:06 PM

Ok. Done with politics. I keep wanting to reply, with links, but this isn't the damn place.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 05:43:19 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 10, 2020, 05:42:06 PM

Ok. Done with politics. I keep wanting to reply, with links, but this isn't the damn place.

I'll do it for you. The only link you need to read right here: 

https://theintercept.com/2019/04/18/robert-mueller-did-not-merely-reject-the-trumprussia-conspiracy-theories-he-obliterated-them/ (https://theintercept.com/2019/04/18/robert-mueller-did-not-merely-reject-the-trumprussia-conspiracy-theories-he-obliterated-them/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 10, 2020, 05:43:58 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 10, 2020, 05:33:25 PM

nice work

I should do something like that.  but it seems uncomfortable

I'm doing some fasting to see if I get results.  Started yesterday.  I'm patient.
my exercise is going to drop since the golf courses closed.
my Bud Fat intake should drop as well, but..... it's too early to call

It's not that hard really.

My BCBS insurance sent it to me, through my wife's former employer (Baxter), who we still get our insurance through. Obviously they were watching the results of my physical... Big brother. Heh.


https://www.naturallyslim.com/home

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 10, 2020, 05:45:32 PM

Also she said that was a key role in her defeat.Did the CIA/FBI confirm that?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/02/09/did-hillary-clinton-collude-with-the-russians-to-get-dirt-on-trump-to-feed-it-to-the-fbi/
We can keep going all night there was so much crap from both sides coming out it really hard to believe any of them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 10, 2020, 05:58:40 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 04:44:37 PM

Yeah I didn't respond because I didn't want to get into it- and I was trying to heed your warnings of no more political talk- but his post was pretty naive- at best.

1) I'm not deleting any political talk on this thread or really anywhere other than the Corona thread.  But I don't speak for the ownership of this site, if they want to shut this down, they can, will, and should.  And I'm absolutely serious when I tell you (and others) to knock it off on the Corona thread.  That thread has value to the users of this message board, and protecting it is something the owners/investors of this site have explicitly told me they support.  But it's not personal, I promise you that much.

2) I don't consider bwar's post naive at all.  He's consistently among the most well-reasoned and thoughtful posters on this site.  I do think his take and his response are a little one-sided, as it doesn't represent what average rank and file Americans were hearing on a regular basis from their Democrat friends and from the media that fuels the talk of those people.  I also think bwar was quick to dismiss these people as "the worst" of that group, when from my experience it was pretty much the average-- smart, educated, passionate people, that desperately wanted to believe that an asshole blowhard like Trump stole the election using all nefarious means available.

That wasn't true, at least not in the way they insisted it was.

But being honest and critical, over the past 3.8 years Trump has certainly resorted to other nefarious means to achieve his objectives, and it wouldn't be out of character for him to hatch some super-devious plot, rather than just let the DNC eat itself up and have the Russians expose it, which is mostly what appeared to have happened.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 06:04:22 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 10, 2020, 05:58:40 PM

But being honest and critical, over the past 3.8 years Trump has certainly resorted to other nefarious means to achieve his objectives, and it wouldn't be out of character for him to hatch some super-devious plot, rather than just let the DNC eat itself up and have the Russians expose it, which is mostly what appeared to have happened.

He's definitely not stupid- can't stand when people try to say that- he clearly has some intelligence to him- or he wouldn't be where he's at. His brothers inherited millions and millions just like he did- and none went on to be world famous real estate developers, tv stars, or the president of the freaking US. He's definitely smart- and he definitely knows how to talk a great game.

The truth is- he just isn't competent enough to hatch some super-devious plot. He's an egomaniac, world class bullshit artist. But it kinda, sorta ends there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 10, 2020, 06:11:55 PM

Anyone that believes Trump is stupid, is playing right into his hands.  He's 100% fine with being underestimated, it's one of his key negotiating advantages.  And to Trump, absolutely everything is a negotiation.

He's an incredible asshole, he's unbelievably self-interested and self-absorbed, and he plays fast and loose with laws, rules, morality, ethics, loyalties... but stupid is something he certainly is not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2020, 06:14:04 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 10, 2020, 05:36:12 PM

After CFB season as 94 does.Oh and you can always cross country ski

2 -3 inches of snow here today
sending it your way

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2020, 06:15:19 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 10, 2020, 06:11:55 PM

Anyone that believes Trump is stupid, is playing right into his hands.  He's 100% fine with being underestimated, it's one of his key negotiating advantages.  And to Trump, absolutely everything is a negotiation.

He's an incredible asshole, he's unbelievably self-interested and self-absorbed, and he plays fast and loose with laws, rules, morality, ethics, loyalties... but stupid is something he certainly is not.

perhaps, but he's stupid enough to lose an election because he can't control his mouth or his twitter account

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 10, 2020, 06:16:33 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 05:43:19 PM

I'll do it for you. The only link you need to read right here:

https://theintercept.com/2019/04/18/robert-mueller-did-not-merely-reject-the-trumprussia-conspiracy-theories-he-obliterated-them/ (https://theintercept.com/2019/04/18/robert-mueller-did-not-merely-reject-the-trumprussia-conspiracy-theories-he-obliterated-them/)

Mueller makes clear, for instance, that the Trump campaign not only knew that Russia was interested in helping it win the election but was happy to have that help. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 10, 2020, 06:24:45 PM

I could stand to follow Badge's lead and lose some weight.

The COVID lockdowns didn't help me much. Normally you'd think that would give me tons of extra time to walk, hike, etc. But we got the puppy, and his early months he was NOT on board with walks. And I didn't want to put him in his crate to go take walks of my own, so I spent a couple months doing absolutely nothing. And of course with stress and everything, there was more eating and drinking going on than normal.

Starting to get better... The puppy now wants demands a walk first thing in the morning so we're typically going 2 miles every morning, and sometimes more. With the golf, I'm getting some range time and when I play a course I walk the course, so that's a little more. I feel like things are starting to get back, and I'm probably back to my pre-COVID weight. 

But I could really stand to lose another 20-25 lbs. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 10, 2020, 07:05:07 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 10, 2020, 06:15:19 PM

perhaps, but he's stupid enough to lose an election because he can't control his mouth or his twitter account

Losing the election by around 3% in the popular vote wasn't a result of his twitter or his mouth, it's because he's an insufferable asshole and a few people decided they'd had enough.

And arguably it was his mouth that WON him the election 4 years ago.

Let's not pretend that he suffered some massive landslide defeat, we're talking about 3%.  Sure, a lot more people voted against him in 2020, but a lot more people voted FOR him as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2020, 07:20:32 PM

his twitter and his mouth, reveal that he's an insufferable asshole

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 10, 2020, 07:23:17 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 10, 2020, 06:14:04 PM

2 -3 inches of snow here today
sending it your way

Keep the snow send the Bud,I mean if that's all ya got

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 10, 2020, 07:29:18 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 10, 2020, 07:20:32 PM

his twitter and his mouth, reveal that he's an insufferable asshole

And yet he GAINED votes from 2016 to 2020.

His twitter is irrelevant, the people that voted against him didn't vote because of twitter-- but some of the people that voted FOR him might have.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I can't stand his arrogant, annoying, tone-deaf, condescending tweets.  I'll be delighted NOT to have to read about them on a daily basis.

But his twitter rantings are one of the reasons his support base followed him.  I don't believe he lost votes because of it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 10, 2020, 07:33:18 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 10, 2020, 07:23:17 PM

Keep the snow send the Bud,I mean if that's all ya got

Snow in November?  I thought that was a January thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2020, 07:50:03 PM

we had more snow in October than today

football weather

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 10, 2020, 08:06:35 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 10, 2020, 07:29:18 PM

And yet he GAINED votes from 2016 to 2020.

This speaks less a plus for Trump and more a negative on the populace.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 08:11:05 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 10, 2020, 08:06:35 PM

This speaks less a plus for Trump and more a negative on the populace. 

Lol. Typical blame the voters bs...and not blame the DNC for putting forth yet another horrible, corrupt candidate. A legit candidate would've beat Trump in a landslide.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 10, 2020, 08:13:09 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 06:04:22 PM

He's definitely not stupid- can't stand when people try to say that- he clearly has some intelligence to him- or he wouldn't be where he's at. His brothers inherited millions and millions just like he did- and none went on to be world famous real estate developers, tv stars, or the president of the freaking US.   This pre-supposes that being famous is linked to intelligence.  It also suggests a smart person should want to be a TV star or the president.


 He's definitely smart- and he definitely knows how to talk a great game.

Being a bully who refuses to acknowledge reality isn't "smart."  It may be effective in some walks of life or while dealing with some people, but he's not smart in any conventional sense of the word.  He doesn't read, isn't interested in truth, and wouldn't beat a 4th grader in a game of chess.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 08:13:46 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 10, 2020, 06:15:19 PM

perhaps, but he's stupid enough to lose an election because he can't control his mouth or his twitter account

Again- that doesn't have to do with intelligence- that has everything to to with EGO and pettiness. You're talking about maybe the most arrogant, egotistical person in the world. He literally cannot help himself.

And the twitter spats and his mouth didn't lose him an election. A global health crisis emanating from China which cratered the US economy and left 200,000+ dead lost him the election. COVID never happens- Trump would've crushed Biden in a landslide.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 10, 2020, 08:14:17 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 08:11:05 PM

Lol. Typical blame the voters bs...and not blame the DNC for putting forth yet another horrible, corrupt candidate. A legit candidate would've beat Trump in a landslide.

As if you'd grant any Dem candidate "legit".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 08:16:40 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 10, 2020, 06:16:33 PM

Mueller makes clear, for instance, that the Trump campaign not only knew that Russia was interested in helping it win the election but was happy to have that help.

LOL. I'm glad you got that one little excerpt from that long ass article written by one of the only true journalists in the entire world- which completely blew up Russia hoax to smithereens. So you read that one sentence and didn't read anything else I take it? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2020, 08:18:14 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 08:13:46 PM

Again- that doesn't have to do with intelligence- that has everything to to with EGO and pettiness. You're talking about maybe the most arrogant, egotistical person in the world. He literally cannot help himself.

And the twitter spats and his mouth didn't lose him an election. A global health crisis emanating from China which cratered the US economy and left 200,000+ dead lost him the election. COVID never happens- Trump would've crushed Biden in a landslide.

I consider someone that can't control his ego and arrogance to the point of failure as stupid, but it really doesn't matter.
He lost to a slug like Biden of his own doing.  He has only himself to blame.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 08:19:33 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 10, 2020, 08:14:17 PM

As if you'd grant any Dem candidate "legit".

They had a couple of them. Tulsi would've wiped the floor with Trump imo. 

And DNC co-ordinated to torpedo Bernie- wasn't an all-out rigging like 2016- but it was still some very shady shit nonetheless.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 08:23:03 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 10, 2020, 08:18:14 PM

I consider someone that can't control his ego and arrogance to the point of failure as stupid, but it really doesn't matter.
He lost to a slug like Biden of his own doing.  He has only himself to blame.

In a way sure- but that pettiness and giant ego has also in part made him the success that he is. Trump has such an ego- my guess is he is going to run again in 2024. He is not going away in the night with grace.

Biden better push forth a progressive agenda and really change things in this country if he wants to win re-election. Judging by the names bandied about in his transition team and a potential cabinet- fat chance that happens. Looks like it'll be the same old cast of goons with some awful republicans thrown in and nothing will really change. And when more people are hurting financially and the status quo remains- Biden will be in real danger of losing 2024.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 10, 2020, 08:27:12 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 08:19:33 PM

They had a couple of them. Tulsi would've wiped the floor with Trump imo.

And DNC co-ordinated to torpedo Bernie- wasn't an all-out rigging like 2016- but it was still some very shady shit nonetheless.

Gabbard is a pro-choice Republican.  You know this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 10, 2020, 08:27:47 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 08:16:40 PM

LOL. I'm glad you got that one little excerpt from that long ass article written by one of the only true journalists in the entire world- which completely blew up Russia hoax to smithereens. So you read that one sentence and didn't read anything else I take it?

It's consistent with literally everything. Russia wanted and did try to influence the election to help Trump. He didn't mind, but there wasn't any sort of criminal collusion. That's the Mueller report. There was no hoax. It was real. In fact, the saddest part about it is we know beyond all doubt that foreign countries use social media as a propaganda effort to influence elections, but people would rather close their eyes and cry hoax instead of just living in reality.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 08:32:44 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 10, 2020, 07:05:07 PM

And arguably it was his mouth that WON him the election 4 years ago.

This is exactly what won him the election. He shit all over the establishment GOP and Dems and hammered them all to bits. And the people of this country who are sick and tired of corrupt establishment politicians- loved it.

He ether'd Hilary in the debates in two instances. When the moderator brought up the "grab her by the p***" audio tape and Trump flipped it on Hillary by bringing 6 of the MANY Bill Clinton sexual assault accusers and sitting them in the front row and Trump said "what I said was words, I'm not proud, it was locker-room talk, Bill has said worse to me on the golf course, and Bill, but what Bill Clinton did was actions, actions are worse!" He flipped a grotesque negative against him and punted it to Hillary and put all that huge negative on her. Something that should've hurt him- didn't- and it actually might've hurt Hillary- because a lot of people question why she would stick by someone that is a flat out known sexual predator like Bill Clinton.

And then when Hillary said "it's a good thing someone with your temperament isn't President" and Trump goes, "yeah, cause you'd be in jail." He destroyed her right then and there, and it was all over.

And then his final political ad was a stroke of fake populist genius. He kept promising to "drain the swamp" bring manufacturing back, etc., etc., etc... and everybody should've known it was fake populist bs- the dude is a billionaire and grew up rich- he has nothing in common with the common man- he shits on gold toilets and owns sky-scrappers for f***sake. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 08:36:02 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 10, 2020, 08:27:12 PM

Gabbard is a pro-choice Republican.  You know this.

You are delusional. That's all I know. You need to stop getting your news from MSNBC/CNN aka CIA Propaganda/DNC State TV bud.

Yup, she's a republican alright, a pro-choice republican that's for medicare for all and ending the bullshit 7 wars and drone bombings. Imagine that. LOL.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 08:48:13 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 10, 2020, 08:27:47 PM

It's consistent with literally everything. Russia wanted and did try to influence the election to help Trump. He didn't mind, but there wasn't any sort of criminal collusion. That's the Mueller report. There was no hoax. It was real. In fact, the saddest part about it is we know beyond all doubt that foreign countries use social media as a propaganda effort to influence elections, but people would rather close their eyes and cry hoax instead of just living in reality.

Dear Lord have mercy. You need help.

If you really think Russia spending $100,000 on some Facebook Ads had ANYTHING at all to do with Hillary Clinton- one of the most corrupt, unlikeable politicians in the HISTORY of this country- who hangs out with certifiable war criminals like Kissinger- who voted for the criminal, illegal Iraq war, pushed the Obama administration into the complete destruction of Libya & Syria- losing then you are the one not living in reality.

What Russia did was mf'ng CHILDS play. Like I said- our CIA actually RIGGED an election in Russia in the '90s. Not did a couple of social media ads and memes. Like actually had people on the ground in the country- actively working with Yeltsin and his security state goons to get him re-elected and steal an election.

It is a hoax. It didn't influence or affect jackshit. It is PATHETIC that people even say that. And the rest of the world LAUGHED their asses off at the dumb people in this country who claimed Russia "interfered" with US elections. And the US doesn't run social media ads in other countries. We flat out rig elections and topple governments. Google Timber Sycamore Syria. Google Russian 1996 election. Google Bolivia. Google Venezuela Juan Guaido CIA. THAT'S A HELL OF A LOT MORE THAN $100,000 WORTH OF FACEBOOK ADS.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 10, 2020, 09:02:01 PM

To put it in caps land. It HAPPENED. To think it didn't happen you have to be STUPID. To think it isn't happening now you have to be BLIND. It doesn't mean the election was rigged. It means our population is willfully IGNORANT. Electing IDIOTS was Russia's goal, and it was SUCCESSFUL, which means they will keep TRYING.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 09:20:42 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 10, 2020, 09:02:01 PM

To put it in caps land. It HAPPENED. To think it didn't happen you have to be STUPID. To think it isn't happening now you have to be BLIND. It doesn't mean the election was rigged. It means our population is willfully IGNORANT. Electing IDIOTS was Russia's goal, and it was SUCCESSFUL, which means they will keep TRYING.

LMAO. This is hilarious. You've bought hook line and sinker into this boogeyman DNC bullshit.

Do you HONESTLY THINK $100,000 in Facebook Ads titled the 2016 election. If you do- you are naive. As hell. It had a negligible affect at best.

Trump is many things, but he isn't an idiot. And if Russia was trying to "interfere" with the election- BIG LOL- it's goal would be not to help Trump, but to hurt Hillary. Why? Hillary is a war-hawk who was openly talking about expanding NATO and going to war with Russia before she ever ran for President. Gee, I wonder why they wouldn't want that? LOL.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 10, 2020, 09:23:37 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 10, 2020, 08:18:14 PM

I consider someone that can't control his ego and arrogance to the point of failure as stupid, but it really doesn't matter.
He lost to a slug like Biden of his own doing.  He has only himself to blame.

This is entirely true.  Live by the sword, die by the sword, as they say.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 10, 2020, 09:24:33 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 10, 2020, 06:24:45 PM

I could stand to follow Badge's lead and lose some weight.

The COVID lockdowns didn't help me much. Normally you'd think that would give me tons of extra time to walk, hike, etc. But we got the puppy, and his early months he was NOT on board with walks. And I didn't want to put him in his crate to go take walks of my own, so I spent a couple months doing absolutely nothing. And of course with stress and everything, there was more eating and drinking going on than normal.

Starting to get better... The puppy now wants demands a walk first thing in the morning so we're typically going 2 miles every morning, and sometimes more. With the golf, I'm getting some range time and when I play a course I walk the course, so that's a little more. I feel like things are starting to get back, and I'm probably back to my pre-COVID weight.

But I could really stand to lose another 20-25 lbs.

Good luck, my friend.

I'm in a weird spot. I got a little bit bigger muscle-wise at my last job because of free gym membership. My new job had a gym, but less stuff, so less heavy weight. I think I lost a little weight with that, then I started running, which knocked down the weight a little more. 

Then the pandemic started. On the one hand, I've been good at running every other day and doing an abbreviated lift session on the off days (only so much one can do with limited gear and body weight), plus a long walk. It means my feet have been giving me issues. Sleep issues have also meant my running performance has dipped, which sucks. I'm a little worried I'm snacking too much. Have a sweet tooth I've been indulging too much. 

Your post inspired me to get on the scale (I don't believe in them for the most part), up 7-8 pounds, I think from the last time I looked I don't know how good or bad that is. Wish there was an easy body fat percentage test that was reliable. That's such a better number. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 10, 2020, 09:30:17 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 10, 2020, 04:12:22 PM

Well let's be clear who you're talking about when you say "The Democrats" in the above.  Are you talking about the DNC?  Hillary herself?  Or just people that vote Democrat?  Or people in the media that choose to report things in... how should I say it... a "Democrat-slanted manner?"

Because I know quite a few people that voted for Hillary, and who didn't understand exactly what was done with respect to Russian influence, and who most assuredly stated outright that Trump and the RNC and the Russians rigged the election.  And there were also, most certainly, some... "Democrat-slanted media members"... who reported it that way as well.

They might have meant something else, but that's not what they said-- they said it was rigged, and further they were certain that there was conclusive proof that there was collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians. 

I'm not disagreeing with the spirit of what you're saying, but since I agree with you that words mean something, I think it's important to be clear about who and what we're talking about.

So I think we all know someone somewhere, and can find someone who should've known better who said something bombastic about politics. And many people misused the word "rigged" because it's just the nature of us to sometimes act like morons.

But we don't have to. 

It's hard to resist catnip like the kind MDot threw out and then pretended wasn't political, and now we're four more pages mostly of bickering. Fortunately we mostly seem to not be talking about if it was or wasn't "rigged" in a strict sense of the word, and that's probably good.

Anyway, somewhere someone is saying something that will piss you off. It's the nature of the world. Best to ignore those who don't matter and deal with the people actually in your life as makes sense. (And maybe please not start s--- to start s--- on the board. This part not directed at you Tee)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 10, 2020, 10:08:41 PM

I will say- I am pretty pleased with how things turned out. 

First- no more stupid commercials!

second- I left my Prez ballot empty as promised, but picked all winners down ballot- and those selections were important to me.  

Third- diarrhea mouth is out, and he can only blame himself

Fourth- those with the policy ideas I find repulsive gained no power in the house and senate.

My word of caution is- despite the President Elect calling for unity, which I applaud- I feel a high level of certainty things will get far worse. 
There are 71million people who have 4 years of rage built up for how they have been treated by the left and the media.  They are never going to forget the last election and how it was disputed, and the endless hypocrisy and hate directed at them. ( not at POTUS-at them) from the day after election and through today.  In fact- they see it has escalated now that their candidate won.  They see the talking heads talking about making Trump supporters “ pay” and making lists and still calling then every “ism” that exists.

There will be no unity- because there wasn’t in 16-20. 

84% of Americans don’t trust the media. 78% of Republicans do not feel this election was legit- specifically due to ballot harvesting.  Congress has an approval rating lower ( about half) of Trumps. 

Sadly- this is a recipe for more division. 

Not sure what can fix this. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 10, 2020, 11:12:44 PM

Forcing social media companies to take their algorithms and throw them in the trash can would fix this. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 10, 2020, 11:15:19 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 10, 2020, 09:20:42 PM

LMAO. This is hilarious. You've bought hook line and sinker into this boogeyman DNC bullshit.

Do you HONESTLY THINK $100,000 in Facebook Ads titled the 2016 election. If you do- you are naive. As hell. It had a negligible affect at best.

You seem to think people are people.  They're not.  They're sheep.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 10, 2020, 11:21:55 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 10, 2020, 10:08:41 PM

My word of caution is- despite the President Elect calling for unity, which I applaud- I feel a high level of certainty things will get far worse. 
There are 71million people who have 4 years of rage built up for how they have been treated by the left and the media.  They are never going to forget the last election and how it was disputed, and the endless hypocrisy and hate directed at them. ( not at POTUS-at them) from the day after election and through today.  In fact- they see it has escalated now that their candidate won.  They see the talking heads talking about making Trump supporters “ pay” and making lists and still calling then every “ism” that exists.

There will be no unity- because there wasn’t in 16-20. 

84% of Americans don’t trust the media. 78% of Republicans do not feel this election was legit- specifically due to ballot harvesting.  Congress has an approval rating lower ( about half) of Trumps. 

Sadly- this is a recipe for more division. 

Not sure what can fix this. 

The answer is someone somewhere putting aside rage, maybe turning the other cheek and being nice to one another, even if someone isn't nice to you.

It's a bitch to pull off, especially without personal interaction, and its arguably a hinderance to acquiring power.

Shoot, the past four years started with a deep simmering well of rage. Rage built when that 71 wasn't winning, then it built more when it was winning and now we forecast it builds more in defeat. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 10, 2020, 11:40:01 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 10, 2020, 09:24:33 PM

Your post inspired me to get on the scale (I don't believe in them for the most part), up 7-8 pounds, I think from the last time I looked I don't know how good or bad that is. Wish there was an easy body fat percentage test that was reliable. That's such a better number.

Ah,another rigging or miscount

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 10, 2020, 11:48:04 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 10, 2020, 11:40:01 PM

Ah,another rigging or miscount

I mean, I used to lift weights 4 times a week. If I stopped, I'd lose weight, but that wouldn't be super. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 11, 2020, 12:07:19 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 10, 2020, 11:21:55 PM

The answer is someone somewhere putting aside rage, maybe turning the other cheek and being nice to one another, even if someone isn't nice to you.

It's a bitch to pull off, especially without personal interaction, and its arguably a hinderance to acquiring power.

Shoot, the past four years started with a deep simmering well of rage. Rage built when that 71 wasn't winning, then it built more when it was winning and now we forecast it builds more in defeat.

No you were missing it. I really don’t think it has anything to do with defeat.

The original victory came because how those people were being treated. Deplorable‘s and all. And now those people who say those things, and unfortunately they are the ones with the microphones, are turning up the volume instead of turning it down.  I could see unity if that wasn’t happening but the left seems to want their pound of flesh and it will absolutely and certainly backfire on them politically and in other ways

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 11, 2020, 03:49:36 AM

Elections commercials here have increased, not stopped.  I thought I moved from a BG state to a nonBG state, heh.

I only notice when the wife turns on the local news, so that's good.

I'm up early this morning, again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 07:08:32 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 10, 2020, 09:24:33 PM

Good luck, my friend.

I'm in a weird spot. I got a little bit bigger muscle-wise at my last job because of free gym membership. My new job had a gym, but less stuff, so less heavy weight. I think I lost a little weight with that, then I started running, which knocked down the weight a little more.

Then the pandemic started. On the one hand, I've been good at running every other day and doing an abbreviated lift session on the off days (only so much one can do with limited gear and body weight), plus a long walk. It means my feet have been giving me issues. Sleep issues have also meant my running performance has dipped, which sucks. I'm a little worried I'm snacking too much. Have a sweet tooth I've been indulging too much.

Your post inspired me to get on the scale (I don't believe in them for the most part), up 7-8 pounds, I think from the last time I looked I don't know how good or bad that is. Wish there was an easy body fat percentage test that was reliable. That's such a better number.

I do think anxiety is a huge problem right now. It's got me too. Trouble sleeping, too much booze, etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 07:13:39 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 10, 2020, 10:08:41 PM

I will say- I am pretty pleased with how things turned out. 

First- no more stupid commercials!

second- I left my Prez ballot empty as promised, but picked all winners down ballot- and those selections were important to me. 

Third- diarrhea mouth is out, and he can only blame himself

Fourth- those with the policy ideas I find repulsive gained no power in the house and senate.

My word of caution is- despite the President Elect calling for unity, which I applaud- I feel a high level of certainty things will get far worse. 
There are 71million people who have 4 years of rage built up for how they have been treated by the left and the media.  They are never going to forget the last election and how it was disputed, and the endless hypocrisy and hate directed at them. ( not at POTUS-at them) from the day after election and through today.  In fact- they see it has escalated now that their candidate won.  They see the talking heads talking about making Trump supporters “ pay” and making lists and still calling then every “ism” that exists.

There will be no unity- because there wasn’t in 16-20. 

84% of Americans don’t trust the media. 78% of Republicans do not feel this election was legit- specifically due to ballot harvesting.  Congress has an approval rating lower ( about half) of Trumps. 

Sadly- this is a recipe for more division. 

Not sure what can fix this. 

I am not. I'm not a fan of DJT, but the newly elected "VP" will not be a good president for so many many reasons.

The rest of your post I agree with, except that the divisiveness started in 2008.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 11, 2020, 07:32:22 AM

There has never been a ton of unity.  Just look at the electoral history of black people in the south if you want to see history of widespread fraud.  Though perhaps a newish problem is the sort of gamesmanship unrelated to governance about the election. Trump declared victory and then has tried various theories on why that was the case, none particularly based in evidence.  It would be sad for our democracy if the new normal would be to declare every election fraudulent.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 07:38:32 AM

I think (??) we are the only country that allows for other than in-person voting. That needs to stop. If you want to vote, show up and show your ID.

Dead people voted in Nevada, and I'm sure in many other places. Mayor Daley voted in Chicago, 14 times.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 07:39:07 AM

In other news, I'm going to be a grandpa. 

Holy shit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 11, 2020, 07:40:04 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 07:39:07 AM

In other news, I'm going to be a grandpa.

Holy shit.

Congrats gramps!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 11, 2020, 07:41:12 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 07:38:32 AM

I think (??) we are the only country that allows for other than in-person voting. That needs to stop. If you want to vote, show up and show your ID.

Dead people voted in Nevada, and I'm sure in many other places. Mayor Daley voted in Chicago, 14 times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_voting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_voting)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 11, 2020, 07:45:33 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 07:39:07 AM

In other news, I'm going to be a grandpa.

Holy shit.

So cool!  Congratulations!   We might have to come up with a new nickname for you lol.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 11, 2020, 07:47:10 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 07:39:07 AM

In other news, I'm going to be a grandpa.

Holy shit.

Oh HELL YES! Congrats!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 11, 2020, 07:55:10 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 11, 2020, 12:07:19 AM

No you were missing it. I really don’t think it has anything to do with defeat.

The original victory came because how those people were being treated. Deplorable‘s and all. And now those people who say those things, and unfortunately they are the ones with the microphones, are turning up the volume instead of turning it down.  I could see unity if that wasn’t happening but the left seems to want their pound of flesh and it will absolutely and certainly backfire on them politically and in other ways

Explain to me what I'm missing.

I said that rage was there beyond four years ago, and you agreed. And you said it will continue after this, so we have that. It wasn't a four-year build, it was longer than that. 

And the beauty of it is many loud voices in that 71 million, they said plenty that was going to create rage in the 76 million. We're phenomenally good at pissing each other off. And if the answer is, "well they need to stop first" then we've abdicated all responsibility in our own actions. As I said, someone, somewhere needs to set aside the worries about "those people who say those things" is just a mirror image of each other by and large. Once someone tries that, perhaps we can take steps toward some level of unity.

(Sometimes the best answer is not to talk about that particular subject at all)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 11, 2020, 07:56:32 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 07:39:07 AM

In other news, I'm going to be a grandpa.

Holy shit.

CHEERS!!!


(https://i.imgur.com/pTcL8kY.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 11, 2020, 07:57:57 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 07:38:32 AM

I think (??) we are the only country that allows for other than in-person voting. That needs to stop. If you want to vote, show up and show your ID.

Dead people voted in Nevada, and I'm sure in many other places. Mayor Daley voted in Chicago, 14 times.

I mean, if you live in a place for 14 years, that should be relatively easy. 

(The strangest thing about the dead voting is in the modern context, it should be phenomenally easy to prove, and for the most part hasn't been, except for that guy in Pennsylvania)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 08:45:46 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 11, 2020, 07:41:12 AM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_voting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_voting)

I still say it needs to stop. Show up, and show ID. It's the only way to be sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 11, 2020, 08:46:23 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 11, 2020, 07:55:10 AM

Explain to me what I'm missing.

I said that rage was there beyond four years ago, and you agreed. And you said it will continue after this, so we have that. It wasn't a four-year build, it was longer than that.

And the beauty of it is many loud voices in that 71 million, they said plenty that was going to create rage in the 76 million. We're phenomenally good at pissing each other off. And if the answer is, "well they need to stop first" then we've abdicated all responsibility in our own actions. As I said, someone, somewhere needs to set aside the worries about "those people who say those things" is just a mirror image of each other by and large. Once someone tries that, perhaps we can take steps toward some level of unity.

(Sometimes the best answer is not to talk about that particular subject at all)

Your missing or are in denial about what is right in front of your face.

I am not talking about individual people like you and me. I am talking about the people with the microphones.

why do I have to see clips of Hollywood elites, current elected officials, and news anchors saying that those that voted with Trump are despicable human beings, racist, deplorable, and on and on and on, and need to pay. Why are they talking about assembly lists of business owners or staffers from the administration to make sure they don’t get employment? This is just the tip of the iceberg and it is coming from one side and one side only. Please stop pretending that it is not. Saying that you disagree with another side is one thing but actually trying to convince the world that 1/2 of our population are racist, repulsive pigs, is coming from one side.
so what you are saying as I understand it is that it’s not incumbent upon the side that’s saying all of those things to stop saying them but rather it’s incumbent on the receiving people to just turn the other cheek?

If this election taught us anything it should be that the personality of our president was rejected but the policies in many cases that he stands for were not. Americans seem to want moderation. Yet the left is still babbling about what despicable human beings those on the right are. Do I need to attach 50 video clips in the last 24 hours to prove my point?

Maybe what we should do is turn our cheeks to each other. If you can’t acknowledge the rancor of personal attacks on voters coming from ONE side- your living under a rock. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 11, 2020, 08:47:53 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 08:45:46 AM

I still say it needs to stop. Show up, and show ID. It's the only way to be sure.

It's not the only way to be sure, which is why almost no other business operates that way. People are doing all sorts of things without showing up in person.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 11, 2020, 08:51:30 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 08:45:46 AM

I still say it needs to stop. Show up, and show ID. It's the only way to be sure.

Wow I totally agree with you the reality is this will likely never happen. The barn door has been opened.

you have to give the Democratic Party some credit here. They mastered the art of ballot harvesting back in the 2018 congressional races. In this election they focused so much time on major cities in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Georgia.
remember what ballot harvesting is. It is mailing out ballots, unsolicited, to millions of voters and then paying a third-party firm to go out and collect them. Whether or not they were actually legitimate ballots is no longer detectable once those ballots are mixed in with the other ballots.

They say that it’s pretty clear that Trump received more in person votes, by a wide wide margin, then any presidential candidate in the history of our country. Just think about that for a minute.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 11, 2020, 09:17:02 AM

We did not get mailed out ballots in Georgia.  They did make getting an absentee ballot easier.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 11, 2020, 09:44:27 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 11, 2020, 08:51:30 AM

Wow I totally agree with you the reality is this will likely never happen. The barn door has been opened.

you have to give the Democratic Party some credit here. They mastered the art of ballot harvesting back in the 2018 congressional races. In this election they focused so much time on major cities in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Georgia.
remember what ballot harvesting is. It is mailing out ballots, unsolicited, to millions of voters and then paying a third-party firm to go out and collect them. Whether or not they were actually legitimate ballots is no longer detectable once those ballots are mixed in with the other ballots.

They say that it’s pretty clear that Trump received more in person votes, by a wide wide margin, then any presidential candidate in the history of our country. Just think about that for a minute.

Biden received more votes than anyone in history. Quite the feat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on November 11, 2020, 09:48:43 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 07:39:07 AM

In other news, I'm going to be a grandpa.

Holy shit.

Cheers old man!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 09:51:28 AM

Thanks all. It has to sink in yet. I'm 53.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 11, 2020, 10:04:01 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 11, 2020, 08:46:23 AM

Your missing or are in denial about what is right in front of your face.

I am not talking about individual people like you and me. I am talking about the people with the microphones.

why do I have to see clips of Hollywood elites, current elected officials, and news anchors saying that those that voted with Trump are despicable human beings, racist, deplorable, and on and on and on, and need to pay. Why are they talking about assembly lists of business owners or staffers from the administration to make sure they don’t get employment? This is just the tip of the iceberg and it is coming from one side and one side only. Please stop pretending that it is not. Saying that you disagree with another side is one thing but actually trying to convince the world that 1/2 of our population are racist, repulsive pigs, is coming from one side.
so what you are saying as I understand it is that it’s not incumbent upon the side that’s saying all of those things to stop saying them but rather it’s incumbent on the receiving people to just turn the other cheek?

If this election taught us anything it should be that the personality of our president was rejected but the policies in many cases that he stands for were not. Americans seem to want moderation. Yet the left is still babbling about what despicable human beings those on the right are. Do I need to attach 50 video clips in the last 24 hours to prove my point?

Maybe what we should do is turn our cheeks to each other. If you can’t acknowledge the rancor of personal attacks on voters coming from ONE side- your living under a rock.

Ahhh, so now we get to the crux of the matter. 

I can fully acknowledge that the side you are referring to says many things that trigger rage. But I can also scrape together all the clips so show that the side you described as having four years of built up rage has given plenty in the way of attacks and gross clips. I hope you too can acknowledge that. 

If you can't, you're correct that unity is impossible. It's going to take one side or the other acting like the bigger person, putting aside rage, hurt and insults and being ... dare I say, nice. 

The left probably won't do it, and the right it seems certianly won't do it, in part because maintaining that hard edge seems more advantageous to holding power and influence. And unfortunately also in part because there's something in our lizard brains that seems to want very much to be put upon and feel bad about the world. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 11, 2020, 10:07:29 AM

The Popeye's spicy chicken sandwich is delicious. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 11, 2020, 10:09:35 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 11, 2020, 08:51:30 AM

Wow I totally agree with you the reality is this will likely never happen. The barn door has been opened.

you have to give the Democratic Party some credit here. They mastered the art of ballot harvesting back in the 2018 congressional races. In this election they focused so much time on major cities in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Georgia.
remember what ballot harvesting is. It is mailing out ballots, unsolicited, to millions of voters and then paying a third-party firm to go out and collect them. Whether or not they were actually legitimate ballots is no longer detectable once those ballots are mixed in with the other ballots.

They say that it’s pretty clear that Trump received more in person votes, by a wide wide margin, then any presidential candidate in the history of our country. Just think about that for a minute.

It turns out they mastered it in the saddest way we've ever seen. If you can cheat rampantly and not take the senate or add to the advantage in the house, cheating is either highly ineffective or being done anything but masterfully. 

Who says that last part?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 11, 2020, 10:09:41 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 11, 2020, 10:07:29 AM

The Popeye's spicy chicken sandwich is delicious.

I got one a couple months ago and thought it was...fine. Seemed pretty average to me, I dunno. It's not like I'm expecting earth shattering food in fast food sandwiches, but I'm not sure I could tell it apart from any other one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 11, 2020, 10:10:16 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 11, 2020, 10:07:29 AM

The Popeye's spicy chicken sandwich is delicious.

Is it. I only eat Popeyes on tight airport layovers, usually in Atlanta. The level of crispy breading they have is always absurd. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 11, 2020, 10:10:50 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 11, 2020, 10:07:29 AM

The Popeye's spicy chicken sandwich is delicious.

It's pretty good, but the "spicy" is only in the mayo, and I don't love mayo on a sandwich.

I wish they'd included the spice in the batter itself, like they do for their standard bone-in chicken pieces.  I think THAT would have made for a really great sandwich.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 10:27:10 AM

I don't get the thing about putting breaded/battered chicken between bread.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 11, 2020, 10:27:47 AM

If 71 million people have been pissy the last 4 years with their guy in the WH, then there's no appeasing them, lol.  Bitch when you lose, bitch when you win....why bother caring how they feel if it's always the same emotion?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 11, 2020, 10:28:25 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 10:27:10 AM

I don't get the thing about putting breaded/battered chicken between bread.

I'll pray for you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 11, 2020, 10:35:19 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 11, 2020, 10:04:01 AM

Ahhh, so now we get to the crux of the matter.

I can fully acknowledge that the side you are referring to says many things that trigger rage. But I can also scrape together all the clips so show that the side you described as having four years of built up rage has given plenty in the way of attacks and gross clips. I hope you too can acknowledge that.

If you can't, you're correct that unity is impossible. It's going to take one side or the other acting like the bigger person, putting aside rage, hurt and insults and being ... dare I say, nice.

The left probably won't do it, and the right it seems certianly won't do it, in part because maintaining that hard edge seems more advantageous to holding power and influence. And unfortunately also in part because there's something in our lizard brains that seems to want very much to be put upon and feel bad about the world.

Show me the clips of Hollywood elites calling people who voted for Biden racist, repulsive, disgusting, or threatening revenge against them. Show me that. Show me a news anchor at one of the main stream media saying that those people should feel threatened. Show me that. Show me I talk show host on a main stream Network saying that they want Trump supporters rounded up and locked up. I will save you some time. You won’t find that and yet I can show you plenty of that just in the last 24 hours. Please get real.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 11, 2020, 10:35:51 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 11, 2020, 10:10:50 AM

It's pretty good, but the "spicy" is only in the mayo, and I don't love mayo on a sandwich.

I wish they'd included the spice in the batter itself, like they do for their standard bone-in chicken pieces.  I think THAT would have made for a really great sandwich.

Bojangles does that, and on a biscuit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 11, 2020, 10:37:40 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 11, 2020, 10:27:47 AM

If 71 million people have been pissy the last 4 years with their guy in the WH, then there's no appeasing them, lol.  Bitch when you lose, bitch when you win....why bother caring how they feel if it's always the same emotion?

The right tends to be the side of optimism, the left side of doom and gloom. Never was that more evident than this recent election. 
again you’re missing the point. It has so little to do with who occupies the White House.  People on the right fear for their lives because of people on the left. The walk cancel culture, the violence against somebody wearing a Maga hat, or just endless. You would think that now the left has the White House they would stop but they have just turned up the volume.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 11, 2020, 10:41:17 AM

We've gone from politics to drunk guy at the bar...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 11, 2020, 10:44:19 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 11, 2020, 10:41:17 AM

We've gone from politics to drunk guy at the bar...

Are you at the bar?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 11, 2020, 10:49:34 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 11, 2020, 10:35:51 AM

Bojangles does that, and on a biscuit

Bojangles' chicken is awful.  I've heard of grades of beef and being suspicious of who gets the worst of that, but it's like Bojangles gets the last pickings of the chicken available.  It's thin and tough every single time I've been there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 10:52:48 AM

I do miss Brown's Chicken from up North. Never was a Popeye's or KFC guy.

Best fried chicken I've ever had was at Puckett's in Nash Vegas.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 11, 2020, 11:12:18 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 11, 2020, 10:44:19 AM

Are you at the bar?

I wish.  But seriously, I enjoy hearing what people think about the various issues of the day.  But miss me with the Caddyshack style "are you for goodness or badness" style of discussion where we chop up the country in two groups and then assign them a morality rating.  I realize it's easy to do because of our party system lines up, but it ain't close to reality.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 11, 2020, 11:13:05 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 10:52:48 AM

I do miss Brown's Chicken from up North. Never was a Popeye's or KFC guy.

Best fried chicken I've ever had was at Puckett's in Nash Vegas.

I grew up on Brown's Chicken. Loved their deep fried mushrooms too.

Regarding a fried chicken sandwich, it's that fried chicken is delicious, but messy. Bread makes it easier to eat. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 11, 2020, 11:15:06 AM

When I was a kid my uncle would have big parties where they'd play bluegrass, play euchre, drink beer, and always someone would bring a bucket of fried chicken.  I remember that being the greatest thing, though can't say I get the same thrill these days.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 11:15:46 AM

Yeah, those mushrooms are killer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 11:21:31 AM

Typing killer in reference to Brown's reminds of my former home town of Palatine. Damn.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 11, 2020, 11:34:15 AM

Never heard of Bojangles or Brown's.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 11, 2020, 11:38:24 AM

I went to Gus' in Memphis. They forgot my fried green tomatoes. Can't remember the chicken

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 11, 2020, 11:41:35 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 11, 2020, 11:34:15 AM

Never heard of Bojangles or Brown's. 

We have Bojangle's hereabouts.  I may have eaten at one once, maybe.  Hattie B's is the best I've found in Atlanta since Greenwood's closed.  Mary Mac's Tea Room has good friend chicken but they closed and have not yet reopened.  That place is a local icon kind of place.
Is fried chicken a sandwich?

It has breading on both sides ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 11, 2020, 11:42:27 AM

Got home from transferring the kids to their mom and as I got out of my car I hear snarling and screams. Neighbor pitbull was attacking my elderly neighbor's golden retriever. Rushed over to help separate them. Dog broke the skin of the golden and her owner, so this won't end well. 

Glad I was there, as I'm not sure they'd have gotten separated without myself and the pit's male owner working together. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 11, 2020, 11:43:08 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 11, 2020, 11:34:15 AM

Never heard of Bojangles or Brown's. 

Brown's, as far as I'm aware, is Chicago only. I believe Bojangles is spread throughout the south. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 11, 2020, 11:53:19 AM

We have Gus's here in the ATX, it's good.

I've heard good things about Hattie B's and it is supposed to open here eventually as well.  At least, that's what was announced before the coronas.  Who knows, now?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 11, 2020, 12:00:24 PM

Hattie B's here usually has a long line waiting to order.  We try and hit it midafternoon if we go.  The wife loves it, and I think it's quite good.

They have almost no parking.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 11, 2020, 12:08:26 PM

There is always a line at the Chic-fil-a drive throughs here in the Twin Cities, and I don't get the appeal. Inevitably, the whole thing is a soggy mess that is lukewarm and doesn't taste like anything.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 11, 2020, 12:15:06 PM

Chick-Fil-A here usually has long double lines, but they get folks through quickly.  The wife likes it a lot, we don't go that often though.

I'm impressed with how well that provide customer service at CFA more than their actual food (which I think is decent).

The Varsity hereabouts is a mystery to me, it's pretty popular, but expensive and not that good.  The experience is interesting, once.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 11, 2020, 12:22:03 PM

I love Chick fil A, their spicy sandwich is far superior to the other fast food options out there, largely because their spice is included in the batter.

The key to avoiding a soggy mess that's been under a heat lamp, is to order it without pickles.  Then they have to make it fresh.  Plus, I hate pickles, so win-win.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 11, 2020, 12:24:21 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 11, 2020, 12:22:03 PM

I love Chick fil A, their spicy sandwich is far superior to the other fast food options out there, largely because their spice is included in the batter.

The key to avoiding a soggy mess that's been under a heat lamp, is to order it without pickles.  Then they have to make it fresh.  Plus, I hate pickles, so win-win.

A chicken sandwich without pickles? Might as well eat a Styrofoam sandwich.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 12:25:09 PM

I don't get Chick-Fil-A either. There is nothing special about it, at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 11, 2020, 12:25:37 PM

The Chick-fil-A spicy deluxe chicken sandwich is decent. Surprisingly I found it less satisfying than the Popeye's sandwich though, given how much people LOVE Chick-fil-A and how they've made their reputation on chicken sandwiches, whereas Popeye's makes their reputation on the chicken. 

The Chick-fil-A waffle fries are pretty solid though. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 11, 2020, 12:54:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 12:25:09 PM

I don't get Chick-Fil-A either. There is nothing special about it, at all.

They are very popular hereabouts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 11, 2020, 12:56:53 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/5FD6mA3.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 11, 2020, 01:20:01 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/jBf3INs.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 11, 2020, 01:25:13 PM

The alkaline diet says no alcohol or caffeine. 

I'm out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 11, 2020, 01:26:40 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 11, 2020, 12:24:21 PM

A chicken sandwich without pickles? Might as well eat a Styrofoam sandwich.

Pickles are disgusting, so, nope.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 11, 2020, 01:28:09 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 11, 2020, 12:25:37 PM

The Chick-fil-A spicy deluxe chicken sandwich is decent. Surprisingly I found it less satisfying than the Popeye's sandwich though, given how much people LOVE Chick-fil-A and how they've made their reputation on chicken sandwiches, whereas Popeye's makes their reputation on the chicken.

The Chick-fil-A waffle fries are pretty solid though.

Chick fil A is a spicy chicken sandwich.

Popeye's is a spicy mayo sandwich.  

So they're not really the same thing 'tall.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 01:29:52 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/vtTtbIN.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 11, 2020, 01:31:51 PM

If I have to eat fast food, Chick-Fil-A would be my preferred option, except for breakfast.

I really do avoid all chains of any ilk (beyond some places that have 3-4-5 outlets).  I liked Eddie Merlot's because I had a wine locker and could buy wine at retail.  I hate paying restaurant markups for wine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 11, 2020, 01:36:09 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 01:29:52 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/vtTtbIN.png)

Annoyed. Yesterday I had to go drop off some samples at a customer site, right around lunchtime, and it just so happens that it put my right by a place with awesome Italian Beef sandwiches. It's a little place in a "food court" area that is only open M-F during daytime, as it caters to the office crowd. 

Well, there is no office crowd due to COVID, so they're closed. 

I was very disappointed. And hungry. Which is how I ended up in the Popeye's drive through to begin with.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 11, 2020, 01:39:42 PM

I still want to know if fried chicken can be, on its own, a sandwich.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2020, 01:40:35 PM

I don't go out for chicken sammiches, I don't make chicken sammiches at home.

But, I'm certainly going to the bar tonight for Wings Wednesday.  Gonna destroy a basket of hot wings!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2020, 01:41:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 11, 2020, 01:39:42 PM

I still want to know if fried chicken can be, on its own, a sandwich.

hard NO

breading is not bread

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 01:43:53 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 11, 2020, 01:36:09 PM

Annoyed. Yesterday I had to go drop off some samples at a customer site, right around lunchtime, and it just so happens that it put my right by a place with awesome Italian Beef sandwiches. It's a little place in a "food court" area that is only open M-F during daytime, as it caters to the office crowd.

Well, there is no office crowd due to COVID, so they're closed.

I was very disappointed. And hungry. Which is how I ended up in the Popeye's drive through to begin with.

That sucks.

I'm going to make my own in a couple of weeks. The trick will be getting the bread. I have to find a good source here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 01:59:59 PM

Dinner tonight:

(https://i.imgur.com/73zvSgg.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 11, 2020, 02:00:20 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 01:43:53 PM

That sucks.

I'm going to make my own in a couple of weeks. The trick will be getting the bread. I have to find a good source here.

Mmm, bread. Is that a particular sort of roll. I've only every had Italian beef from a short-lived truck in Madison, and it was great but I had no sense for the finer points. 

Weirdly some of the better bread I've gotten here in the sort that I use for most sandwiches is from the cheapest grocery store. It's not unreal, but highly serviceable. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 11, 2020, 02:01:05 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 01:59:59 PM

Dinner tonight:

(https://i.imgur.com/73zvSgg.png)

That photo is so nice, I can't tell if it's a restaurant or if you're skipping the middle man and just making the same food, but better. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 02:05:35 PM

Picture is not mine, but I will be making my own tonight for sure. Fries too. Got the peanut oil today and the fryer is on the counter, ready to go.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 11, 2020, 02:17:11 PM

Saw a Yelp review for my local Italian Beef place... Girl was complaining about the soggy bread :smiley_confused1:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 02:20:58 PM

Stupid Cali girl!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2020, 02:25:34 PM

I fried a burger last night at home

80/20 beef, sauteed red onion and green pepper, soy sauce.  Wisconsin smoked cheddar cheese.

no bun - no fries - no beer

had broccoli with plenty of butter as my side

drank water

trying to cut back, once in a while

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 02:30:05 PM

I've got 80-20 too, from the local butcher. After TG, I will grind up a batch of my own.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2020, 02:42:50 PM

I use the cheap ($2.99 lb) pink slime from the local packing plant.

it doesn't suck

I won't be cutting back on Wings Wednesday........... cutting loose!

60 cent broasted wings with Grim Reaper sauce, broasted taters and $2.50 Budweisers.  About a dozen wings, a dozen taters, and a 12er of Bud!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 11, 2020, 03:38:00 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 11, 2020, 01:26:40 PM

Pickles are disgusting, so, nope.

I'm gonna make some fried chicken sandwiches later today. Currently have boneless thighs brining in pickle juice. Once they are fried and slathered in pickles and mayo...delicious!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 11, 2020, 03:42:25 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2020, 12:25:09 PM

I don't get Chick-Fil-A either. There is nothing special about it, at all.

I'm with you. It is probably the best fast food place there is though imo. Fast food in general is disgusting. Chic-Fil-A gets overhyped simply because it's pretty good and it's fast food. It isn't amazing or anything. It's just, pretty good.

There is this sandwich place in Ft. Laud called Henry's that has a fried chicken sandwich- now that is an amazing fried chicken sandwich.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 11, 2020, 03:43:38 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 11, 2020, 12:24:21 PM

A chicken sandwich without pickles? Might as well eat a Styrofoam sandwich.

this all day long. gotta have the pickles on a fried chicken sandwich. or cheeseburger. have to.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 11, 2020, 04:07:37 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 11, 2020, 03:38:00 PM

I'm gonna make some fried chicken sandwiches later today. Currently have boneless thighs brining in pickle juice. Once they are fried and slathered in pickles and mayo...delicious!

effing gross.  Your plan is bad and you should feel bad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 12, 2020, 09:13:20 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/qvUFTaw.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 12, 2020, 09:24:58 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 11, 2020, 03:38:00 PM

 Currently have boneless thighs brining in pickle juice.I suppose I'd tried this brine if offered

Once they are fried and slathered in pickles and mayo...delicious!.Ya lost me,go find Andrew Zimmern

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 12, 2020, 09:30:33 AM

I start getting badgers about "What do you want for Christmas?" about now.  I generally say "World peace" or "Harsher punishment for parole violators".

This year I preempted by sending out this:

(https://i.imgur.com/P2v8TDi.png)

That could be me.  It isn't.  It won't be any time soon, but it could be.  Reaction thus far is not promising.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 12, 2020, 09:31:15 AM

Kroger had flat iron steaks on sale so I picked up two of them.  I would just about prefer this to any other cut at any price, just about.  Seriously.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 12, 2020, 09:33:18 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 12, 2020, 09:13:20 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/qvUFTaw.png)

In reading the first one, I thought that was an instruction on how to deal with an engineer 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 12, 2020, 09:56:04 AM

hey now

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 12, 2020, 10:11:22 AM

No shit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 12, 2020, 10:12:06 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 12, 2020, 09:31:15 AM

Kroger had flat iron steaks on sale so I picked up two of them.  I would just about prefer this to any other cut at any price, just about.  Seriously.

Makes for a great steak fritte dinner. Garlic and parsley butter. Mmm..

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 12, 2020, 10:41:19 AM

The recipe was from Serious Eats five ingredient chicken sandwiches. Essentially brine in pickle juice, then a dip in buttermilk, then all purpose flour, then fry. Turned out pretty well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 12, 2020, 10:55:50 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 12, 2020, 09:31:15 AM

Kroger had flat iron steaks on sale so I picked up two of them.  I would just about prefer this to any other cut at any price, just about.  Seriously.

Phenomenal cut for the price. 

When used as a "steak", to me it actually slots in as my number two cut between ribeye (1) and strip (3). 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 12, 2020, 11:20:29 AM

I like the flavor, and the leftovers make great stew or burritos or mixture with rice etc.

I can remember when they were $4.99/lb.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 12, 2020, 11:28:36 AM

The expansion of MARTA hard rail into Gwinett county apparently has failed.  Folks in these outer counties make noise about this every so often, but the referenda fail time and again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2020, 11:32:53 AM

pickle juice is a great brine, but my daughter drinks pickle juice so it's hard to find in my kitchen

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 12, 2020, 11:47:02 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 12, 2020, 11:20:29 AM

I like the flavor, and the leftovers make great stew or burritos or mixture with rice etc.

I can remember when they were $4.99/lb.

I can remember when inside skirt steak was $.59/lb.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 12, 2020, 12:09:45 PM

Well, going back, I used to get sirloins for 99 cents a pound in HS, bring them home and cook them for lunch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 12, 2020, 12:18:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 12, 2020, 09:30:33 AM

I start getting badgers about "What do you want for Christmas?" about now.  I generally say "World peace" or "Harsher punishment for parole violators".

This year I preempted by sending out this:

(https://i.imgur.com/P2v8TDi.png)

That could be me.  It isn't.  It won't be any time soon, but it could be.  Reaction thus far is not promising.

Wasn't a fan of the last Corvette, but they did a hell of a job with this one. It's stunning. Only nitpick I have on it is the taillights, but that's pulling hairs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 12, 2020, 12:19:21 PM

Our pre-game meal was always a big steak and a potato.  No idea what cut it was, but it did what it was supposed to do.  And a banana at halftime, lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2020, 12:20:01 PM

I'd guess it was a sirloin 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2020, 12:20:47 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 12, 2020, 12:18:25 PM

Wasn't a fan of the last Corvette, but they did a hell of a job with this one. It's stunning. Only nitpick I have on it is the taillights, but that's pulling hairs.

If I only had a spare $80K laying around

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 12, 2020, 12:41:49 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 12, 2020, 12:19:21 PM

Our pre-game meal was always a big steak and a potato.  No idea what cut it was, but it did what it was supposed to do.  And a banana at halftime, lol.

Same- with a side of pasta.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2020, 12:54:38 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 12, 2020, 12:20:47 PM

If I only had a spare $80K laying around

hah, a pic today from an acquaintance in Iowa

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p180x540/124344319_10218478814989334_3920776937201148839_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=c-uJLAmNgyMAX-JLF19&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=13413948f1bddef5f61b9c30f518b10e&oe=5FD1E2A4)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 12, 2020, 01:08:02 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 12, 2020, 12:20:47 PM

If I only had a spare $80K laying around

don't they start at $55k? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2020, 01:17:00 PM

$60K

I'd want a few options

I wonder if the dealer threw in the cap for him?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 12, 2020, 01:26:20 PM

I have practical problems with Vettes of course, some obvious ones, and also the memory of how many tires we blew out on the Caddy (which had 19" rims and 35 profile run flats).  That was a major consideration in trading that vehicle.  The second issue is knowing I can't really drive it on a public road.  It hits 60 mph in 2.8 seconds, which is kinda fun of course, but not for long.  It looks pretty cool, but then, I do naturally anyway.

The car I'd buy if I were to buy one would be a B<W 240i convertible.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2020, 01:40:25 PM

well, the Michelin Pilot Sport All-Season 4 isn't a run flat

and you admit you don't drive your current car at it's limits

who cares if the limits are a bit greater and you don't get there?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 12, 2020, 03:12:55 PM

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34601800/last-3-on-the-tree-column-shift-manual-car/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0y4uARm3mfT5H6eFoV39YSrUPDGSSz2-w99P7pA9XJ9tKeUeYMAQfRUZo

The last 3 on a tree transmission available in the US as a new car, 1979 Chevy Nova.

How many here have driven one, a car or truck with 3-on-the-tree?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 12, 2020, 03:33:41 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 12, 2020, 03:12:55 PM

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34601800/last-3-on-the-tree-column-shift-manual-car/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0y4uARm3mfT5H6eFoV39YSrUPDGSSz2-w99P7pA9XJ9tKeUeYMAQfRUZo

The last 3 on a tree transmission available in the US as a new car, 1979 Chevy Nova.

How many here have driven one, a car or truck with 3-on-the-tree?

I have driven those. Many of them.

Now I have two vehicles that have 7 on the tree.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2020, 03:40:56 PM

that's not a tree

I'm familiar with 3 on the tree

many farm trucks and pickups in my youth

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2020, 03:42:01 PM

my first car when I was 17 in 1979 was a 1970 Nova SS

4 on the floor

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 12, 2020, 03:57:46 PM

2 things people love: rhyming and talking animals 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2020, 04:01:46 PM

12ving - 8-man football high school playoff game in Iowa today

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p180x540/124399558_3707932652591388_1411121588358575814_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=p_PLZ2r6P-gAX8SLYkY&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=8826ba4da5631ca14a230274821d4a72&oe=5FD26C67)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 12, 2020, 04:06:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 12, 2020, 03:12:55 PM

How many here have driven one, a car or truck with 3-on-the-tree?

I have have nightmares to this day about those,my brothers also.My dad loved manual tranny's as he grew up in the day,he was also frugal,not cheap but had to watch the Ps/Qs with 5 kids.He also wasn't very good at driving - think Mr Magoo for those that get that.Any way my dad got a deal from guy at Chevy(where he worked) in the early 70s on a 6 cyldr,4dr Chevelle with a 3 on the tree in gawd awful ugly pea green.it was used but he bounced around in it for 6yrs and sold it to a neighbor who got another 3-4 yrs out of it.So imagine a cranky stout,gruff guy like Mel from Mel's Diner in the sit com Alice behind the wheel.Anyway my dad smoked a pipe(tobacco) in one hand he'd have his pipe and in the other the tobacco pouch.He would load his pipe in his lap as he made a left with his elbows on the wheel as he as he tapped the lever downshifting with his elbow - shear-terror."Dad watch it we're going to hit that car/sign/person/ditch as he's swearing enough to make Patton blush and blaming a near would be victim.And yelling at me "Shadd Up!!! what the hell's wrong with you".I never told him after that when I had dental appointments.I'd walk over two miles in the elements.When the family went out we felt bad that mom was in the front seat.And no one ever screamed "shotgun"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 12, 2020, 04:08:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 12, 2020, 09:31:15 AM

Kroger had flat iron steaks on sale so I picked up two of them.  I would just about prefer this to any other cut at any price, just about.  Seriously.

Alton brown cooked them right on the coals.I was slobbering like a St Bernard

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 12, 2020, 04:14:18 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 12, 2020, 12:09:45 PM

Well, going back, I used to get sirloins for 99 cents a pound in HS, bring them home and cook them for lunch.

Ya and John Wayne was appearing in "Stage Coach"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 12, 2020, 04:19:17 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 12, 2020, 03:12:55 PM

The last 3 on a tree transmission available in the US as a new car, 1979 Chevy Nova.

How many here have driven one, a car or truck with 3-on-the-tree?

Nope. Oldest car I've "owned" was the 1985 1/2 Ford Escort with 4 on the floor. Have had multiple manuals since, but all have been on the floor.

Except, of course, for the 1 down 5 up vehicle I had... Which I reversed to the "GP" shift pattern of 1 up 5 down. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 12, 2020, 04:20:56 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 12, 2020, 03:40:56 PM

I'm familiar with 3 on the tree

That how many strokes it takes to get out of the woods?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 12, 2020, 04:27:07 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 12, 2020, 03:12:55 PM

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34601800/last-3-on-the-tree-column-shift-manual-car/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0y4uARm3mfT5H6eFoV39YSrUPDGSSz2-w99P7pA9XJ9tKeUeYMAQfRUZo

The last 3 on a tree transmission available in the US as a new car, 1979 Chevy Nova.

How many here have driven one, a car or truck with 3-on-the-tree?

We had a couple of Chevy farm trucks with 3 on the tree. That is what I learned to drive in. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 12, 2020, 04:28:11 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 12, 2020, 03:42:01 PM

my first car when I was 17 in 1979 was a 1970 Nova SS

4 on the floor

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 12, 2020, 03:12:55 PM

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34601800/last-3-on-the-tree-column-shift-manual-car/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0y4uARm3mfT5H6eFoV39YSrUPDGSSz2-w99P7pA9XJ9tKeUeYMAQfRUZo

The last 3 on a tree transmission available in the US as a new car, 1979 Chevy Nova.

How many here have driven one, a car or truck with 3-on-the-tree?

drove a 1965 volkswagen in college
3 speeds and reverse on the floor

does that count

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 12, 2020, 05:26:40 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 12, 2020, 04:28:11 PM

drove a 1965 volkswagen in college
3 speeds and reverse on the floor

does that count

Guess not

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 12, 2020, 07:01:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 12, 2020, 03:12:55 PM

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34601800/last-3-on-the-tree-column-shift-manual-car/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0y4uARm3mfT5H6eFoV39YSrUPDGSSz2-w99P7pA9XJ9tKeUeYMAQfRUZo

The last 3 on a tree transmission available in the US as a new car, 1979 Chevy Nova.

How many here have driven one, a car or truck with 3-on-the-tree?

A friend in high school in '88 had an old truck that was 3 on the tree.  I don't even remember what brand it was, I wasn't much into pickups at the time, but I drove it occasionally.  So I can raise my hand on this one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2020, 09:05:43 PM

Former Florida State wide receiver D.J. Matthews will transfer to Indiana, it was announced on Thursday. The former Seminoles star made the announcement via a post on social media account as he now gets set to join the Hoosiers for the next leg of his football career.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 12, 2020, 09:49:24 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 12, 2020, 09:05:43 PM

Former Florida State wide receiver D.J. Matthews will transfer to Indiana, it was announced on Thursday. The former Seminoles star made the announcement via a post on social media account as he now gets set to join the Hoosiers for the next leg of his football career.

I know this is going to sound bad but I gotta ask why would anyone want to transfer from Florida State to Indiana

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 12, 2020, 09:55:41 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 12, 2020, 09:49:24 PM

I know this is going to sound bad but I gotta ask why would anyone want to transfer from Florida State to Indiana

Probably to play for a decent team

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2020, 09:59:00 PM

with a decent QB

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 12, 2020, 10:12:09 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 12, 2020, 09:49:24 PM

I know this is going to sound bad but I gotta ask why would anyone want to transfer from Florida State to Indiana

I mean, if you think your coach is unpleasant, could be a reason to leave. And it's not like Tallahassee is a paradise.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 12, 2020, 11:23:42 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 12, 2020, 09:49:24 PM

I know this is going to sound bad but I gotta ask why would anyone want to transfer from Florida State to Indiana

Florida State is a dumpster fire, that's why.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 12, 2020, 11:39:04 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 12, 2020, 11:23:42 PM

Florida State is a dumpster fire, that's why.

OK but why Indiana

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 12, 2020, 11:45:52 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 12, 2020, 11:39:04 PM

OK but why Indiana

It's beautiful country with a nice campus and an opportunity to play

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 13, 2020, 12:21:09 AM

Academics?

Tallahassee may not be a paradise, but there's bangin' scenery and the beach isn't far away.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 13, 2020, 05:36:30 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 12, 2020, 11:39:04 PM

OK but why Indiana

Is this question legitimately curious? Or no?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 13, 2020, 05:39:00 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 13, 2020, 12:21:09 AM

Academics?

Tallahassee may not be a paradise, but there's bangin' scenery and the beach isn't far away.

If you don’t like the beach, there’s quality enough scenery at most large institutions. (Plus he’ll only be there a year anyway)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 13, 2020, 07:41:06 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 12, 2020, 03:40:56 PM

that's not a tree

I'm familiar with 3 on the tree

many farm trucks and pickups in my youth

(https://i.imgur.com/hoBMgHp.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 13, 2020, 08:11:26 AM

That's a pretty tree.  Why are the leaves all orange and yellow and red?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 13, 2020, 08:24:35 AM

Fall colors.

I soon will forget what that looks like.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 13, 2020, 08:30:13 AM

Fall colors?

Fall colors for trees are green, then brown, then gone.

You people are crazy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 13, 2020, 08:34:30 AM

Jack Frost is a helluva artist

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 13, 2020, 10:10:44 AM

These look fine all year long...

(https://i.imgur.com/r3j9awu.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 13, 2020, 10:12:35 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 13, 2020, 08:30:13 AM

Fall colors?

Fall colors for trees are green, then brown, then gone.

You people are crazy.

Well maybe on mesquite or perhaps catus or tumbleweeds where you're at - I would never live there.Fearless and Bwarb on the other hand......

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 13, 2020, 10:13:29 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 13, 2020, 10:10:44 AM

These look fine all year long...

As long as they're not on fire

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 13, 2020, 10:14:08 AM

Leaves are starting to turn here, a bit, still no cold weather, it's been warmer than usual.  The tulip poplar outside my office is about half gone.

Today is gorgeous, 61°F at the moment.  I imagine we'll go to the botanical garden and walk about.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 13, 2020, 10:17:52 AM

Weird year, my crepe myrtles only stopped blooming a few weeks ago, normally they're done in August.  And now they're already dropping leaves into my pool.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 13, 2020, 10:40:17 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 13, 2020, 10:17:52 AM

Weird year, my crepe myrtles only stopped blooming a few weeks ago, normally they're done in August.  And now they're already dropping leaves into my pool. 

2020

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 13, 2020, 10:57:32 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 13, 2020, 10:40:17 AM

2020

Maybe the Murder Hornets pollinated them, so they responded differently.

Effing 2020.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 13, 2020, 10:58:53 AM

Remember the Killer Bees and the Fire Ants?  There was at one point a notion they would "take over everywhere".  I think they are problematic in some areas, like right around Austin, Texas.

Don't move there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 13, 2020, 11:00:49 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 13, 2020, 10:58:53 AM

Remember the Killer Bees and the Fire Ants?  There was at one point a notion they would "take over everywhere".  I think they are problematic in some areas, like right around Austin, Texas.

Don't move there.

yep now there is a rumor that fire ants are mating with killer bees

oh the humanity

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 13, 2020, 11:42:35 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 13, 2020, 05:39:00 AM

If you don’t like the beach, there’s quality enough scenery at most large institutions. (Plus he’ll only be there a year anyway)

Florida probably has the hottest women of any state in the entire country. And FSU has all the hottest girls in Florida that were too stupid to get into UF or too stupid to get into Miami/couldn’t afford the tuition at Miami. Expansion of FAU/FIU have cut into the talent at FSU I’m sure, but the Indiana scenery pales in comparison to what this guy is leaving at FSU. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 13, 2020, 12:00:46 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 13, 2020, 10:58:53 AM

Remember the Killer Bees and the Fire Ants?  There was at one point a notion they would "take over everywhere".  I think they are problematic in some areas, like right around Austin, Texas.

Don't move there.

Yeah, like mine. MF'rs got me good about a month ago. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 13, 2020, 12:12:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 13, 2020, 10:58:53 AM

Remember the Killer Bees and the Fire Ants?  There was at one point a notion they would "take over everywhere".  I think they are problematic in some areas, like right around Austin, Texas.

Don't move there.

Thank You For Your Support

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 13, 2020, 12:20:49 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 13, 2020, 11:42:35 AM

Florida probably has the hottest women of any state in the entire country. And FSU has all the hottest girls in Florida that were too stupid to get into UF or too stupid to get into Miami/couldn’t afford the tuition at Miami. Expansion of FAU/FIU have cut into the talent at FSU I’m sure, but the Indiana scenery pales in comparison to what this guy is leaving at FSU.

I remember when myself and my other Purdue buddy attended our friend's wedding at Auburn. 

School wasn't even in session, but in going to the bars the night before the wedding we realized that a "10" in West Lafayette was only about an Auburn "6". 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 13, 2020, 12:28:48 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 13, 2020, 12:20:49 PM

I remember when myself and my other Purdue buddy attended our friend's wedding at Auburn.

School wasn't even in session, but in going to the bars the night before the wedding we realized that a "10" in West Lafayette was only about an Auburn "6".

The south just has the hottest women in the US. I think that's fair to say.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 13, 2020, 12:49:46 PM

Brian Wilson and David Lee Roth wish they all could be California girls.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 13, 2020, 01:02:10 PM

there are beautiful young women everywhere

there just seems to be more of them in Cali and some other places

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 13, 2020, 01:11:32 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 13, 2020, 11:42:35 AM

Expansion of FAU/FIU have cut into the talent at FSU I’m sure, but the Indiana scenery pales in comparison to what this guy is leaving at FSU.

Talking about the actual campus it self.Been down to FLA a few times and was shocked by the lack of greenery.Had some friends attend in Bloomington,great campus they loved it.And those Florida girls look good until the sun catches up to them - then they look like California raisins 😎

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 13, 2020, 01:14:49 PM

I went up to Ohio State to deliver my kids and my neck was snapping left and right all the time.

I concluded two things:

1.  I'm old.
2.  College aged women look really good to me for the most part.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 13, 2020, 01:31:18 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 13, 2020, 01:02:10 PM

there are beautiful young women everywhere

there just seems to be more of them in Cali and some other places

Well California, and specifically LA, draws a lot of attractive women from all over, that are trying to be actresses/models/etc.  So not only is the homegrown talent good, but they import an abnormally high percentage of attractive women as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 13, 2020, 01:35:53 PM

so that's were most of the smokin hot farmer's daughters go?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 13, 2020, 01:38:26 PM

I see young ladies out on the track daily who are ... attractive ... and they wear these tight pants that are ... attractive, presuming they are attractive, which some may not be.  I guess those are what we call yoga pants.

They actually do yoga classes in the park on weekends.  A lot of guys attend, I suspect for ulteriors.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 13, 2020, 01:45:41 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 13, 2020, 01:31:18 PM

Well California, and specifically LA, draws a lot of attractive women from all over, that are trying to be actresses/models/etc.  So not only is the homegrown talent good, but they import an abnormally high percentage of attractive women as well.

Miami has better looking women than LA. NY has a lot of beautiful women too- but that has more to do with them just having so many god damn people packed into a small area. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 13, 2020, 01:46:14 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 13, 2020, 01:35:53 PM

so that's were most of the smokin hot farmer's daughters go?

There or NY or Miami.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 13, 2020, 01:48:09 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 13, 2020, 12:49:46 PM

Brian Wilson and David Lee Roth wish they all could be California girls.

There's a lot of guys who wish they could be girls in California. Just one of the many reasons that place is a crazy ass cesspool.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 13, 2020, 02:15:10 PM

You're a strange cat with some odd obsessions over how and where other people choose to live their lives, but that's cool.  It takes all kinds.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 13, 2020, 02:23:16 PM

David Lee Roth is a strange cat

I may have been referred to as a strange cat more than a few times

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 13, 2020, 02:38:52 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 13, 2020, 01:31:18 PM

Well California, and specifically LA, draws a lot of attractive women from all over, that are trying to be actresses/models/etc.  So not only is the homegrown talent good, but they import an abnormally high percentage of attractive women as well.

Well if the Chix can't cut it as Aggies then they move to L.A.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on November 13, 2020, 02:52:22 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 13, 2020, 11:42:35 AM

Florida probably has the hottest women of any state in the entire country. And FSU has all the hottest girls in Florida that were too stupid to get into UF or too stupid to get into Miami/couldn’t afford the tuition at Miami. Expansion of FAU/FIU have cut into the talent at FSU I’m sure, but the Indiana scenery pales in comparison to what this guy is leaving at FSU.

You haven't been to Miami U.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 13, 2020, 03:33:51 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on November 13, 2020, 02:52:22 PM

You haven't been to Miami U. 

Don't have to. I've been to Tallahassee before. FSU kills everyone in this...

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.chatsports.com/fsu5.jpg)(https://www.thewizofodds.com/.a/6a00e553e551d18834010534d2ae1f970c-pi)(https://touch-the-banner.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Florida-State-girl-302x.jpg)(https://external-preview.redd.it/kYzTbb_IOWhEVRS35m17K_btQsVELXlZxhFl3gFSzK4.jpg?auto=webp&s=c62778006cbda963ed4da28e78e0d162ef6416a5)(https://i.redd.it/yrmdmy49ye131.jpg)(https://jobbiecrew.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/SandySellers.jpg)


There is literally nothing in Ohio that is better than something in Florida. Ohio is like Michigan. It sucks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 14, 2020, 09:51:12 AM

Arizona State holds its own.

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 13, 2020, 02:38:52 PM

Well if the Chix can't cut it as Aggies then they move to L.A.

When my i s c & a aggie wife was at A&M, there were a lot of very pretty girls.  Same thing at UT.

Over time, as admissions standards have increased, there are fewer and fewer really hot girls going to either.  In the state of Texas, now they all go to Texas Tech or Texas State.  Those schools are... rich in talent... so to speak.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 14, 2020, 09:57:14 AM

Way back in the day, 1975, I took a trip over spring break to visit Princeton, and stopped at UNC on the way back.  Princeton had snow on the ground in places and the "coeds" were covered up with parkas and whatnot.  At UNC it was 70°F and the coeds were wearing shorts.

I went to UNC.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 14, 2020, 10:02:18 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 14, 2020, 09:57:14 AM

Way back in the day, 1975, I took a trip over spring break to visit Princeton, and stopped at UNC on the way back.  Princeton had snow on the ground in places and the "coeds" were covered up with parkas and whatnot.  At UNC it was 70°F and the coeds were wearing shorts.

I went to UNC.

Word.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 14, 2020, 11:39:01 AM

ASU is pretty up there in the talent department.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 14, 2020, 01:50:51 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 03, 2020, 06:59:46 PM

If it has bread instead of a bun, and cheese on it, around here we'd call it a patty melt.

I have no idea when that came into the vernacular, nor how widespread it is, though.

I've heard of a patty melt.  That's what I thought one was, though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 14, 2020, 02:01:02 PM

I think patty melts need to be on pumpernickel or dark rye bread with an obscene amount of fried onions to be considered a patty melt.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 14, 2020, 02:04:01 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 03, 2020, 07:02:16 PM

Lots of places claim the hamburger,New Haven,Conn but that was 1900.In Akron Ohio and Outagamie County Fair Wisc.both claim it in 1885

*https://whatscookingamerica.net/History/HamburgerHistory.htm*

All those other claims are missing the point.  From your link:

Quote

Only one of the claimants below served their hamburgers on a bun – Oscar Weber Bilby in 1891.  The rest served them as sandwiches between two slices of bread.

That would be Oscar Weber Bilby, from just outside of Tulsa.  Ancestor of the current owners of the Weber's Root Beer stand, where, along with cooking their burgers on the original 1891 grill, they make their own root beer.

Surely none of us think that a ground-beef patty between two slices of bread is a hamburger.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 14, 2020, 02:09:43 PM

Is a bun typically something other than bread?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 14, 2020, 02:12:59 PM

The Ole Miss talent at the Grove is unmatched imo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 14, 2020, 02:14:02 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on November 14, 2020, 02:04:01 PM

Surely none of us think that a ground-beef patty between two slices of bread is a hamburger.

I dunno I'm sure someone put them on kaiser Rolls - then what.Not sure Buns were plentiful back in the day.You'll have to ask utee or Badge - we need a ruling

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 14, 2020, 02:15:02 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/QJFDnOU.jpg)

They are swapping out some antenna on our roof today, the rood is about 200 feet up, and the crane came in on a truck.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 14, 2020, 02:15:25 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/h9u4wyF.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 14, 2020, 02:24:15 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 05, 2020, 08:35:37 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cNGfHEhtng


One of the best videos I've ever seen on ut, seriously, entertaining and instructive.

And this "argument" comes up all the time on associated chat sites.

It's about the question of the "best tank of WW 2" and has a superb final answer.

I watched that awhile back, and I liked the answer.
Of course, it depends on what metrics you want to use, but produce-ability, versatility, reliability, economy of operation, and ease of maintenance matter.
In pure single-tank vs. single-tank combat is the metric, then many tanks are better.  But many of those "better" tanks can't get to the battlefield because they are too heavy to get across the available bridges, or because they broke down due to mechanical complexity and lack of spare parts, or because they weren't available in enough numbers due to being too expensive/difficult to produce.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 14, 2020, 02:32:36 PM

Yeah. and as you noted, our tactical approach was to use tank destroyers to engage other tanks, in theory.  The Sherman could fire a useful all purpose round.  They often had to be used against other tanks because battle is messy.

The TDs are an interesting group, I think.  The Germans favored simply "casemate" turretless TDs of course.  And of course their Panzers in 1942 were inferior against some Russian tanks.  So, the Germans creatively generated TDs on light tank chassis, at times using captured Russian guns.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 14, 2020, 02:33:51 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 11, 2020, 11:42:27 AM

Got home from transferring the kids to their mom and as I got out of my car I hear snarling and screams. Neighbor pitbull was attacking my elderly neighbor's golden retriever. Rushed over to help separate them. Dog broke the skin of the golden and her owner, so this won't end well.

Glad I was there, as I'm not sure they'd have gotten separated without myself and the pit's male owner working together.

Walked over to the golden's house yesterday to check on them. Was a lot more serious than I thought. The golden needed $2K in surgery and the pit nearly got to the intestinal wall, which might have killed the poor girl. Replaying the events in my mind, I keep chastising myself for not intervening sooner. After seeing her dog, I'm glad I intervened when I did or she probably wouldn't have survived.

When I was there, I saw the pit bite the lady in addition to her dog, and her dog did not in any way fight back against the pit--it was purely an attack, not a fight. 

But apparently the pit's owner's version of the facts are nowhere near what I saw, and had the audacity to say that the golden bit his pit and that the golden bit her own owner. Apparently the police were going to cite her in addition to him for a "dog fight". Complete and total fabrication. What an asshole.

So I just completed my statement of facts and sent it to the golden's owner to forward to the police investigator. Not going to allow this outrage to stand.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 14, 2020, 02:36:24 PM

Good on you BWar. Not everyone would do what you did. You are a hero. For real.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 14, 2020, 02:37:58 PM

That is disgusting, but it happens.  The pit owner may really believe his side of the story, or has convinced himself of it.  If the pit bit the other person this could lead to civil action.  There was an impartial witness, you.

A LOT of people hereabouts have pit bulls, mostly mixes I think.  I like them, I've been around the ones that were well trained, or not mistrained, but they are powerful dogs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 14, 2020, 02:46:45 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 05, 2020, 02:50:37 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/K6q6sy5.jpg)


The tree that was toppled in the park.

We had a tornado skip through Tulsa a few years ago, and it apparently went right over us, sounding like the proverbial freight train.  It ripped up an 80-foot pecan tree in our back yard.  The root-ball wasn't quite that big, but it was close.
The tree fell into the front yard, caving in the garage roof in the process, and damaging my esposita's Volvo C30 and my Boss 302 with the upper branches.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 14, 2020, 02:48:28 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 14, 2020, 02:36:24 PM

Good on you BWar. Not everyone would do what you did. You are a hero. For real.

I initially didn't want to intervene, but the owners couldn't get control of their dog. And none of the other bystanders [neighborhood ladies] were doing anything more than yelling "no". 

Luckily as pits go, he wasn't a particularly large one. Big enough to rip right through the side of that golden though. 
 

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 14, 2020, 02:37:58 PM

That is disgusting, but it happens.  The pit owner may really believe his side of the story, or has convinced himself of it.  If the pit bit the other person this could lead to civil action.  There was an impartial witness, you.

A LOT of people hereabouts have pit bulls, mostly mixes I think.  I like them, I've been around the ones that were well trained, or not mistrained, but they are powerful dogs.

I'm not anti-pit. Any breed of dog can be good, and any breed of dog can be dangerous.

But I feel like certain breeds of dog (pretty much any retriever) are the type where you almost have to deliberately mistreat them to make them mean or aggressive. Breeds like a pit need much better training by an owner to control more natural aggression, but with the right owner, they can be great dogs.

That said, I suspect that a lot of the owners who are attracted to those breeds are the exact sort of owners who shouldn't have those breeds. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 14, 2020, 02:54:08 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on November 14, 2020, 02:46:45 PM

We had a tornado skip through Tulsa a few years ago, and it apparently went right over us, sounding like the proverbial freight train.  It ripped up an 80-foot pecan tree in our back yard.  The root-ball wasn't quite that big, but it was close.
The tree fell into the front yard, caving in the garage roof in the process, and damaging my esposita's Volvo C30 and my Boss 302 with the upper branches.

This happened after that Hurricane remainder came through, maybe 60 mph gusts.  I have to think that tree was weakened already, nothing else around it fell like that, though a lot of limbs came down.  A lot of the trees in the park are 120 years old, oaks and poplars mostly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 14, 2020, 03:46:33 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 11, 2020, 01:20:01 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/jBf3INs.png)

Still ugly.  Like so much automotive these days.
The overall shape is fine.  But the details are a mess.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 14, 2020, 03:50:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 12, 2020, 09:30:33 AM

I start getting badgers about "What do you want for Christmas?" about now.  I generally say "World peace" or "Harsher punishment for parole violators".

This year I preempted by sending out this:

(https://i.imgur.com/P2v8TDi.png)

That could be me.  It isn't.  It won't be any time soon, but it could be.  Reaction thus far is not promising.

Maybe because it is ugly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 14, 2020, 03:55:11 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 12, 2020, 03:12:55 PM

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34601800/last-3-on-the-tree-column-shift-manual-car/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0y4uARm3mfT5H6eFoV39YSrUPDGSSz2-w99P7pA9XJ9tKeUeYMAQfRUZo

The last 3 on a tree transmission available in the US as a new car, 1979 Chevy Nova.

How many here have driven one, a car or truck with 3-on-the-tree?

A then-old 3-on-the-tree GMC pickup is what I used in learning to drive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 14, 2020, 04:04:47 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 13, 2020, 12:20:49 PM

I remember when myself and my other Purdue buddy attended our friend's wedding at Auburn.

School wasn't even in session, but in going to the bars the night before the wedding we realized that a "10" in West Lafayette was only about an Auburn "6".

In the summer of 1979, my buddy at Fort Benning and I drove to Auburn with the express purpose of picking up girls.  We saw none.  It was like the streets had been rolled up.  Nothing was open.
It was a Saturday night.
Like the one in this town (https://youtu.be/8bqFEJCtULI).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 14, 2020, 04:21:00 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on November 14, 2020, 02:01:02 PM

I think patty melts need to be on pumpernickel or dark rye bread with an obscene amount of fried onions to be considered a patty melt.

Right.  That's what a patty melt has meant to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 14, 2020, 04:22:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 14, 2020, 02:09:43 PM

Is a bun typically something other than bread?

Technically, no.
But when I hear "bread," I don't think of a hamburger bun.
Just like when I hear "sandwich," I don't think of a hamburger.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 14, 2020, 04:29:32 PM

Prettiest airliner ever.

The Lockheed Constellation (https://youtu.be/xRwSKmFoFa8)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 14, 2020, 05:43:38 PM

My buddy says it's the best three engine aircraft in history.  He was an eng officer on one for the French Air Force in the 60s.  He said they almost never completed a mission with all four running.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 14, 2020, 07:40:29 PM

Well, by the '60s they were old.  I'm not sure what model he would have flown.

Checking the Font of All Wisdom and Knowledge, I find that Air France and something called CATAIR (Compagnie d'Affretements et de Transports Aeriens) were the French operators of the Constellation, Super Constellation, and/or L-1649 Starliner.

Starting with the L-1049 Super-Connie, they used the very complex R-3350 turbo-compound engines.  I can imagine that those engines, with a lot of hours on them, could have had some reliability issues.

The airplane in the video is a Starliner.  They used a different wing planform than the P-38-ish design that Connies and Super-Connies did.

Connies looked very nice in Air France livery.

(https://i.imgur.com/oRmFaCg.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 14, 2020, 08:47:54 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on November 14, 2020, 04:04:47 PM

In the summer of 1979, my buddy at Fort Benning and I drove to Auburn with the express purpose of picking up girls.  We saw none.  It was like the streets had been rolled up.  Nothing was open.
It was a Saturday night.
Like the one in this town (https://youtu.be/8bqFEJCtULI).

Especially before summer semesters became normalized, yeah, college towns were ghost towns in the summer.  What were you thinking?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 15, 2020, 12:29:50 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 14, 2020, 08:47:54 PM

Especially before summer semesters became normalized, yeah, college towns were ghost towns in the summer.  What were you thinking?

I'm guessing the southmost heads were doing the bulk of the "thinking" on that trip lol... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 15, 2020, 01:16:15 AM

Quote from: CWSooner on November 14, 2020, 07:40:29 PM

Connies looked very nice in Air France livery.

(https://i.imgur.com/oRmFaCg.png)

Looks like a Dolphin sailing out of the water

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 15, 2020, 01:19:00 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 15, 2020, 12:29:50 AM

I'm guessing the southmost heads were doing the bulk of the "thinking" on that trip lol...

Isn't that what Myrtle Beach was for back then?  Panama City Beach is now?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 15, 2020, 08:50:55 AM

Down here a patty melt doesn't need to be on dark bread, but the bread definitely needs to be toasted.

A common version of a patty melt here, is between two thick slabs of toasted white bread, called "Texas toast."

Obviously cheese is also necessary, hence the "melt" part.

Oh and all buns are bread, but not all bread are buns.  Hamburgers are served on buns, specifically, not just any ol' bread.  If you want to depart from a standard hamburger bun, then you'll need to make a distinction in the description, and call out "kaiser roll" or whatever, otherwise you're gonna confuse the customer when you serve what you called a hamburger, on something other than a hamburger bun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 15, 2020, 08:52:58 AM

Had my burger on some sort of French bread last night. But it was not a baguette.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2020, 10:13:08 AM

Minced meat was a delicacy in medieval cuisine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_cuisine), red meat (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_meat) usually being restricted to the higher classes.^{[16] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-16)} Very little mincing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincing) was done by medieval butchers or recorded in the cookbooks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cookbook) of the time, perhaps because it was not part of the sausage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sausage)-making process that preserves meat.
During the first half of the 19th century, most European emigrants to the New World (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World) embarked from Hamburg, and New York City was their most common destination. Restaurants in New York offered Hamburg-style American fillet,^{[17] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-17)[18] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-Ozersky-18)} or even beefsteak à la Hambourgeoise. Early American preparations of minced beef were therefore made to fit the tastes of European immigrants, evoking memories of the port of Hamburg and the world they left behind.^{[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-Moch-19)}
Hamburg steak[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_the_hamburger&action=edit&section=3)]
In the late 19th century, the Hamburg steak (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburg_steak) became popular on the menus of many restaurants in the port of New York (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_of_New_York_and_New_Jersey). This might consist of a fried patty of chopped beef, eggs, onions, and seasoning,^{[20] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-20)} or it might be lightly salted and often smoked, and served raw in a dish along with onions and bread crumbs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_crumbs).^{[21] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-Theodora-21)[page needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)]} The oldest document that refers to the Hamburg steak is a Delmonico's Restaurant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delmonico's_Restaurant) menu from 1873 which offered customers an 11-cent plate of Hamburg steak that had been developed by American chef Charles Ranhofer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Ranhofer) (1836–1899). This price was high for the time, twice the price of a simple fillet of beef steak.^{[18] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-Ozersky-18)[22] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-22)[page needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)]} However, by the end of the century the Hamburg steak was gaining popularity because of its ease of preparation decreasing cost. This is evident from its detailed description in some of the most popular cookbooks of the day.^{[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-Boston-13)[page needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)]} Documents show that this preparation style was used by 1887 in some U.S. restaurants and was also used for feeding patients in hospitals; the Hamburg steak was served raw or lightly cooked and was accompanied by a raw egg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_(food)).^{[23] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-23)}
The menus of many American restaurants during the 19th century included a Hamburg beefsteak that was often sold for breakfast.^{[24] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-Grace-24)} A variant of Hamburg steak is the Salisbury steak (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salisbury_steak), which is usually served with a gravy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravy) similar in texture to brown sauce (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_sauce). Invented by Dr. James Salisbury (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Salisbury) (1823–1905), the term Salisbury steak has been used in the United States since 1897.^{[25] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-25)} Nowadays, in the city of Hamburg as well as in parts of northern Germany (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Germany), this type dish is called Frikadelle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frikadelle), Frikandelle, or Bulette, which is similar to the meatball. The term hamburger steak was replaced by hamburger by 1930, which has in turn been somewhat displaced by the simpler term, burger.^{[26] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-Merriam-26)} The latter term is now commonly used as a suffix to create new words for different variants of the hamburger, including cheeseburger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheeseburger), porkburger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porkburger), baconburger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacon) and mooseburger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moose). There are other foods with names derived from German cities that are shortened in different ways in American English (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_English). An example is the frankfurter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_dog), often abbreviated as frank.^{[26] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-Merriam-26)}

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2020, 02:50:59 PM

Now, how did the term "hot dog" come to be?

I asked the wife if they had hot dogs in France and she said she'd never seen one, obviously they likely have them somewhere.  I'm a bit amazed how expensive a hot dog is in a restaurant that serves them.  I gather every menu item starts at say $5 regardless and then adds cost to make it.  A hot dog at the Nook is $9 I think, it comes wit "totchos" (or fries).  One hot dog.  That place stays busy nearly all the time, and a bit noisy as they moved a lot of tables outside into their parking lot.

The food is OK, not bad, typical bar food.  It is easy to spend $50 on lunch for two though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 15, 2020, 04:24:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 15, 2020, 02:50:59 PM

Now, how did the term "hot dog" come to be?

I asked the wife if they had hot dogs in France and she said she'd never seen one, obviously they likely have them somewhere.  I'm a bit amazed how expensive a hot dog is in a restaurant that serves them.  I gather every menu item starts at say $5 regardless and then adds cost to make it.  A hot dog at the Nook is $9 I think, it comes wit "totchos" (or fries).  One hot dog.  That place stays busy nearly all the time, and a bit noisy as they moved a lot of tables outside into their parking lot.

The food is OK, not bad, typical bar food.  It is easy to spend $50 on lunch for two though.

World's Fair in Chicago.

Some dude was selling sausages and couldn't sell many, because they were too hot to be handheld. So, he put his "hot dogs" in a bun and the rest is the rest.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2020, 05:54:56 PM

I see some forecast lows in the 30s next week.  I might freeze.

Today was nice but windy midafternoon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2020, 05:58:18 PM

beautiful fall day here - mid 40s,  a bit windy early

I mowed leaves

might have a Husker victory cigar and a glass of scotch on the porch later

mid to upper 50s next week

might play some golf

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2020, 06:02:50 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 15, 2020, 04:24:32 PM

World's Fair in Chicago.

Some dude was selling sausages and couldn't sell many, because they were too hot to be handheld. So, he put his "hot dogs" in a bun and the rest is the rest.

I knew the story, but not why they came to be called "dogs".  Wieners?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 15, 2020, 06:12:25 PM

Well, there's also the inconvenient name of Frankfurters which had to be changed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 15, 2020, 06:16:17 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 15, 2020, 06:02:50 PM

I knew the story, but not why they came to be called "dogs".  Wieners?

From Vienna and called wiener dogs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2020, 06:18:01 PM

A story that riles serious hot dog historians is how term "hot dog" came about. Some say the word was coined in 1901 at the New York Polo Grounds on a cold April day. Vendors were hawking hot dogs from portable hot water tanks shouting "They're red hot! Get your dachshund sausages while they're red hot!" A New York Journal sports cartoonist, Tad Dorgan, observed the scene and hastily drew a cartoon of barking dachshund sausages nestled warmly in rolls. Not sure how to spell "dachshund" he simply wrote "hot dog!" The cartoon is said to have been a sensation, thus coining the term "hot dog." However, historians have been unable to find this cartoon, despite Dorgan's enormous body of work and his popularity.

Kraig, and other culinary historians, point to college magazines where the word "hot dog" began appearing in the 1890s. The term was current at Yale in the fall of 1894, when "dog wagons" sold hot dogs at the dorms. The name was a sarcastic comment on the provenance of the meat. References to dachshund sausages and ultimately hot dogs can be traced to German immigrants in the 1800s. These immigrants brought not only sausages to America, but dachshund dogs. The name most likely began as a joke about the Germans' small, long, thin dogs. In fact, even Germans called the frankfurter a "little-dog" or "dachshund" sausage, thus linking the word "dog" to their popular concoction.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 15, 2020, 07:38:34 PM

I live a 113 miles due south of Cape Canaveral. 
Anytime they do a space ex launch and it’s a clear night we can see it clearly from my back patio. Such a spectacular sight!

They just launched at 10 minutes ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 15, 2020, 10:43:17 PM

I'd see space shuttle launches when we lived in Lakeland, about 100 miles west. 
Nothing can replicate being there at the Cape during a launch, though.  That thumping in your chest is epic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 15, 2020, 11:01:51 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 15, 2020, 10:13:08 AM

Minced meat was a delicacy in medieval cuisine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_cuisine), red meat (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_meat) usually being restricted to the higher classes.^{[16] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-16)} Very little mincing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincing) was done by medieval butchers or recorded in the cookbooks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cookbook) of the time, perhaps because it was not part of the sausage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sausage)-making process that preserves meat.
During the first half of the 19th century, most European emigrants to the New World (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World) embarked from Hamburg, and New York City was their most common destination. Restaurants in New York offered Hamburg-style American fillet,^{[17] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-17)[18] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-Ozersky-18)} or even beefsteak à la Hambourgeoise. Early American preparations of minced beef were therefore made to fit the tastes of European immigrants, evoking memories of the port of Hamburg and the world they left behind.^{[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-Moch-19)}
Hamburg steak[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_the_hamburger&action=edit&section=3)]
In the late 19th century, the Hamburg steak (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburg_steak) became popular on the menus of many restaurants in the port of New York (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_of_New_York_and_New_Jersey). This might consist of a fried patty of chopped beef, eggs, onions, and seasoning,^{[20] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-20)} or it might be lightly salted and often smoked, and served raw in a dish along with onions and bread crumbs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_crumbs).^{[21] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-Theodora-21)[page needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)]} The oldest document that refers to the Hamburg steak is a Delmonico's Restaurant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delmonico's_Restaurant) menu from 1873 which offered customers an 11-cent plate of Hamburg steak that had been developed by American chef Charles Ranhofer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Ranhofer) (1836–1899). This price was high for the time, twice the price of a simple fillet of beef steak.^{[18] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-Ozersky-18)[22] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-22)[page needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)]} However, by the end of the century the Hamburg steak was gaining popularity because of its ease of preparation decreasing cost. This is evident from its detailed description in some of the most popular cookbooks of the day.^{[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-Boston-13)[page needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)]} Documents show that this preparation style was used by 1887 in some U.S. restaurants and was also used for feeding patients in hospitals; the Hamburg steak was served raw or lightly cooked and was accompanied by a raw egg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_(food)).^{[23] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-23)}
The menus of many American restaurants during the 19th century included a Hamburg beefsteak that was often sold for breakfast.^{[24] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-Grace-24)} A variant of Hamburg steak is the Salisbury steak (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salisbury_steak), which is usually served with a gravy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravy) similar in texture to brown sauce (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_sauce). Invented by Dr. James Salisbury (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Salisbury) (1823–1905), the term Salisbury steak has been used in the United States since 1897.^{[25] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-25)} Nowadays, in the city of Hamburg as well as in parts of northern Germany (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Germany), this type dish is called Frikadelle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frikadelle), Frikandelle, or Bulette, which is similar to the meatball. The term hamburger steak was replaced by hamburger by 1930, which has in turn been somewhat displaced by the simpler term, burger.^{[26] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-Merriam-26)} The latter term is now commonly used as a suffix to create new words for different variants of the hamburger, including cheeseburger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheeseburger), porkburger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porkburger), baconburger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacon) and mooseburger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moose). There are other foods with names derived from German cities that are shortened in different ways in American English (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_English). An example is the frankfurter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_dog), often abbreviated as frank.^{[26] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_hamburger#cite_note-Merriam-26)}

"Burg" comes from Old High German "burg," meaning "fortified town."  IIRC, the Dutch equivalent is "burgh" and the French equivalent is "bourg."  All originally meaning about the same thing.  "Bourgeoise" comes from the people who lived in such towns.  "Borough" is another derivation.
"Furt" does not mean "fort," as some might guess, but "ford."  So, "Frankfurt" would have originated as a name for a place where the Franks (who were Germanic, not Gallic) forded or could ford a river.
The suffix "-er" in German means "of the place."  Frankfurters are from Frankfurt, Hamburgers are from Hamburg, Berliners are from Berlin, and Wieners are from Vienna (Wien).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 16, 2020, 07:47:01 AM

Damn NE Ohio got pounded by high winds up until about 11 pm last nite.Trees & wires down and power out all over the place.I had large branches down on the roof/yard.I sympathize with any folks going thru that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2020, 07:53:55 AM

Alfred the Great pushed the idea of fortified towns that were called "Burhs" in Wessex ca. 900 AD.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burh#:~:text=A%20burh%20(Old%20English%20pronunciation,to%20use%20against%20such%20attackers.

They were Saxons fighting the Danes at the time.  The Danes overran most of "England" as we call it now and Wessex was the last kingdom left, and it too was overrun, but the Danes didn't like sieges or attacking fortified towns, so the Saxons gradually retook England from them, and intermarried, and the place became "Englaland", Place of the Angles" (Anglo-Saxons), until some uppity French dude decided he wanted the throne even though he was a mere Duke.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 16, 2020, 08:35:04 AM

We transited Frankfurt to and from Rome last winter. While in the airport, I ate a frankfurter. 

You know, the whole "when in Rome, do as the Romans do" bit. When in Frankfurt, eat a frankfurter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 16, 2020, 08:36:33 AM

When in Rome, eat a Roman?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 16, 2020, 08:55:44 AM

When in Austin - STAY THERE

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 16, 2020, 11:01:01 AM

and eat Tex-Mex

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 16, 2020, 11:20:49 AM

Mmmmmm Tex-Mex.

A new place nearby just opened, they've got really great Tex-Mex AND some awesome interior-style dishes as well.  I hope they make it, the last 3-4 restaurants in that space all failed within a year or so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 16, 2020, 12:50:40 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 16, 2020, 08:55:44 AM

When in Austin - STAY THERE

when not in Austin stay there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 16, 2020, 01:03:45 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 16, 2020, 12:50:40 PM

when not in Austin stay there

Ha!

Amen, brutha.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SFBadger96 on November 16, 2020, 01:30:50 PM

We were at the Cape for the second-to-last shuttle launch...then it was scratched. Serious bummer. We watched it with our kids on TV weeks later, like we had as kids in the 80s, but that was a missed opportunity. Sigh.

Anyway, last week we took a partial vacation down to Palm Springs. Work and school online worked just as well from there, and we all took it extra easy, and took Veterans Day off. Friday I completed what I'm calling the "Palm Springs triathalon:" swimming, tennis, and golf in one day. :-)

It was nice down there. Not that warm, though, until Friday. Good to change scenery and pace a bit. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 16, 2020, 01:40:01 PM

Yeah we did almost a full week down at the beach back in October over Columbus Day weekend, it was great.  Kids had 2 days off already, plus a weekend, and then we fudged through a couple other days with the kids being in "online school" while down there, or driving home.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2020, 02:48:23 PM

Running a non-chain restaurant is a great way to make a small fortune IFF ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 16, 2020, 03:14:00 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 16, 2020, 11:20:49 AM

Mmmmmm Tex-Mex.

A new place nearby just opened, they've got really great Tex-Mex AND some awesome interior-style dishes as well.  I hope they make it, the last 3-4 restaurants in that space all failed within a year or so.

Ya but do they have Lonestar,Jose Cuervo,Armadillo Eggs and Possum on the Half Shell ?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2020, 03:31:41 PM

There is a new burger place near us that we tried twice.  It's not bad, over priced IMHO, and we have better options.  Anyway, we dine fairly often at a place next door that we like, and I almost never see the burger place doing business.  The "owner/manager often is outside bopping about, joshing with folks in the side walk, I don't know about what.  There are a number of dining places in that side street and they'll all be crowded and he's empty at prime time.  I asked him how business was and he said it was great.

I don't know if they are washing money or what, but I'd be shocked if he is covering his nut.

https://www.yelp.com/biz/sam-s-of-san-francisco-atlanta

Several places have closed permanently in that section already.  So, there is more business for the rest I guess.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 16, 2020, 04:33:12 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/123297229_3800126436674032_106391682239192173_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=e9SiG9ndsVYAX9Lu6Fa&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=8da2bf09a8bb99ca0678153ff9cdfdc7&oe=5FD92B8B)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 07:54:31 AM

Hmmm... is a gyro wrap really a sandwich?  If so, then you could argue that a taco or burrito is a sandwich.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2020, 08:10:05 AM

When I get gyros, I always get my pita on the side.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 08:13:05 AM

Deconstructed sandwich.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2020, 08:14:54 AM

Correct.

I had one on Sunday at our favorite Greek place down here (so far).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 08:18:33 AM

The best Greek joints are in town, not out here in the burbs.  There's one good one over by my office, but I haven't been into the office since March, so...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 08:29:51 AM

When I was doing a 6-week summer program at Northwestern, summer before my senior year in high school, I stayed in a campus dorm with an assigned roommate.  He was a Chicago native, and we became friends, so a couple of times per week his dad would swing by and spring us loose for lunch.  They saw it as their mission to enlighten me with respect to Chicago cuisine (and believe me I was all for it, especially compared to dorm food!).

We went out and got red hots, deep dish pizza, and then one day they took me to a Greek place.  I'd had Greek food before, and knew I'd like it, but for some reason I'd never had dessert at any Greek restaurant.  They ordered some baklava and it looked a little weird to me, but I've always been willing to try pretty much anything.  From the moment I bit into it, I knew I'd found ambrosia from the gods, and I knew it would be my favorite dessert for the rest of my life.  

I don't eat it much, I don't eat any sweets all that often, but sometimes I'll go out of my way to stop by my favorite Greek place in town to snag some baklava.  And it tastes as delicious today as it did back then.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2020, 08:45:08 AM

We have some good Greek places around us in walking distance, and I enjoy them, but as the wife says there are so many good places it's hard to patronize them all.

https://www.cafeagora.com/midtown-menu

This place is good, they have three small tables on the sidewalk, I wish they had more outdoor seating but there isn't room.

(https://i.imgur.com/50mx8sy.png)

It's a quiet street fortunately.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 17, 2020, 08:59:10 AM

doesn't look like the parking places get used much, put up a fence in the street

not much greek food here in NW Iowa

the Greeks owned the Red Hot coney dog places

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2020, 09:07:24 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 17, 2020, 08:59:10 AM

the Greeks owned the Red Hot coney dog places

Did they burn down?


:)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2020, 09:18:52 AM

That block is "historical", owned by the Atlanta History Center because the Margaret Mitchell house is on the block, and that small older set of buildings is part of it, so they can't make changes readily.  The house, or rather apartment building, apparently burned significantly a while back, so it isn't really a thing.  We visited it once, I didn't quite get the point of it but whatever.

(https://i.imgur.com/HcrHU81.jpg)

Oddly enough, it's across the street from the Fed building which has a nice museum (closed now).  You can watch millions of dollars of currency being schlepped around by robotic fork lifts.  They don't allow cameras inside.

(https://i.imgur.com/wbmbdyA.jpg)

The Mitchell House is upper left almost hidden in the trees (not the taller brick building, those are condos).  The Fed bldg has some interesting security features one can see from the park around it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 17, 2020, 09:35:04 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2020, 09:07:24 AM

Did they burn down?


:)

no, but unfortunately a couple of them closed due to retirements and COVID

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2020, 09:59:11 AM

I wonder how many Cincy chili places exist outside the Cincy metro area.  I think there are some in C-bus, and some in Florida.

I went to a Gold Star my first night in Cincy in 1980 expecting to get chili.  Disappointed.  Majorly.  Didn't try it again for many years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 10:02:58 AM

I've only ever seen Cincy chili on Food Network shows.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2020, 10:19:47 AM

Obviously, it's different, and if one is expecting "normal" chili, you will be sadly disappointed.  Once I accepted that it was NOT chili, I found it to be "OK" and would order it every so often (and add hot sauce).  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 17, 2020, 11:19:03 AM

I'd like to try it although I'm not big on pasta

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 17, 2020, 11:42:07 AM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/117871499_4164393770268533_627882631490915938_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=qcXhdsozUE8AX9m8S1R&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=eb3c91435ffed96815850c26fe57d9d0&oe=5FD9833A)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 17, 2020, 12:26:44 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 08:29:51 AM

We went out and got red hots, deep dish pizza, and then one day they took me to a Greek place.  I'd had Greek food before, and knew I'd like it, but for some reason I'd never had dessert at any Greek restaurant.  They ordered some baklava and it looked a little weird to me, but I've always been willing to try pretty much anything.  From the moment I bit into it, I knew I'd found ambrosia from the gods, and I knew it would be my favorite dessert for the rest of my life. 

I don't eat it much, I don't eat any sweets all that often, but sometimes I'll go out of my way to stop by my favorite Greek place in town to snag some baklava.  And it tastes as delicious today as it did back then.

I can't stand baklava. It's so cloyingly sweet that more than one bite is way too much for me. 

I do love Greek food, and one of the things I miss about Chicago was how ubiquitous good gyro sandwiches were. Seemed like just about little lunch joint had them, and they were all good. 

Good Greek food isn't exactly impossible to find here in SoCal, but not particularly easy either. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 17, 2020, 12:34:04 PM

I'm not really into sweets

baklava isn't one of my favorites

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SFBadger96 on November 17, 2020, 12:42:31 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 17, 2020, 12:26:44 PM

I can't stand baklava. It's so cloyingly sweet that more than one bite is way too much for me.

I do love Greek food, and one of the things I miss about Chicago was how ubiquitous good gyro sandwiches were. Seemed like just about little lunch joint had them, and they were all good.

Good Greek food isn't exactly impossible to find here in SoCal, but not particularly easy either.

Agree on both Greek food generally, and baklava specifically. I love Greek food.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2020, 12:44:32 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 17, 2020, 12:26:44 PM

I can't stand baklava. It's so cloyingly sweet that more than one bite is way too much for me.

I do love Greek food, and one of the things I miss about Chicago was how ubiquitous good gyro sandwiches were. Seemed like just about little lunch joint had them, and they were all good.

Good Greek food isn't exactly impossible to find here in SoCal, but not particularly easy either.

Greektown is about done. The restrictions are killing them - even places like Greek Islands are talking about closing, and Santorini. Many are already gone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 17, 2020, 01:04:09 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 08:29:51 AM

I don't eat it much, I don't eat any sweets all that often, but sometimes I'll go out of my way to stop by my favorite Greek place in town to snag some baklava.  And it tastes as delicious today as it did back then.

Same here don't eat sweets very much but good baklava is tough to pass up.Also Egg Nog from T'Giving thru to the new year

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 17, 2020, 01:08:03 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2020, 12:44:32 PM

Greektown is about done. The restrictions are killing them - even places like Greek Islands are talking about closing, and Santorini. Many are already gone.

The one our family always went to was The Parthenon, which I heard closed a few years ago under a cloud of rumor... 

When I took my wife to Chicago last fall, we went to Greek Islands. The best Greek place we can find here is a little family chain of I think 3 locations in the Long Beach area called George's. It's very good, and for my wife who grew up in that area, it's her standard for Greek. But even she said the Greek Islands blew it out of the water. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 01:14:15 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 17, 2020, 01:04:09 PM

Same here don't eat sweets very much but good baklava is tough to pass up.Also Egg Nog from T'Giving thru to the new year

Now you're speaking my language!

As long as it's homemade eggnog of course.  I can't stand the storebought stuff.

I still have about a quart of nog from last year's final batch.  We'll likely make another batch Thanksgiving weekend, and I'll do a vertical to compare the aged version versus the fresh.  I've done it before and the aged does well, but it also loses some of its body.  The structure holds up better on the fresh stuff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 01:20:32 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 17, 2020, 12:26:44 PM

I can't stand baklava. It's so cloyingly sweet that more than one bite is way too much for me.

I do love Greek food, and one of the things I miss about Chicago was how ubiquitous good gyro sandwiches were. Seemed like just about little lunch joint had them, and they were all good.

Good Greek food isn't exactly impossible to find here in SoCal, but not particularly easy either.

It's definitely sweet but I don't find it to be cloyingly so.  It's far more natural, IMO, compared to modern desserts, candy, and treats.  I like the honey/syrup and the nuts.  It's just a very old-world kind of food, compared to modern cakes and pies and cookies which are just way over the top for me.  But there's certainly a reason why it comes in those tiny little triangles, a little goes a long way.  But for me, that's true of anything sweet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SFBadger96 on November 17, 2020, 01:22:00 PM

If you're expense accounting, or if you want to put down some of your own money for a great meal in San Francisco, Kokkari is excellent.

When I used to work late a lot and eat dinner at the office, the only restaurant that recognized me was the little Greek grill right across the street. Years after I stopped working there, I walked in and the guy recognized me and made me what I always ordered (verifying it with me, of course, but he still knew).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 17, 2020, 01:24:19 PM

Yeah I like baklava because it isn't as sweet as other desserts. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 17, 2020, 01:27:38 PM

Quote from: SFBadger96 on November 17, 2020, 01:22:00 PM

If you're expense accounting, or if you want to put down some of your own money for a great meal in San Francisco, Kokkari is excellent.

Was there many years ago, completely agree. It's great stuff. 

Oddly while I was there I saw this group of extremely tall [and mostly African-American] young men all going to a table together. Apparently it was St John's basketball team which was out in SF to play [I think] St Mary's. Wish I had realized it at the time because I might have tried to find Gene Keady who was an assistant or consultant with the program at the time. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2020, 01:35:49 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 17, 2020, 01:08:03 PM

The one our family always went to was The Parthenon, which I heard closed a few years ago under a cloud of rumor...

When I took my wife to Chicago last fall, we went to Greek Islands. The best Greek place we can find here is a little family chain of I think 3 locations in the Long Beach area called George's. It's very good, and for my wife who grew up in that area, it's her standard for Greek. But even she said the Greek Islands blew it out of the water.

Yeah, if Parthenon didn't close, they were going to BE closed.

Santorini is my favorite. Costa's used to be.

I've been to George's. It's not bad at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2020, 01:37:27 PM

Our Turkish friend notes that Greek food is really just Turkish food.

Greek yogurt was popularized by a Turk.  Now it's hard to find nonGreek yogurt.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 01:52:08 PM

Can your Turkish friends explain "Why did Constantinople get the works?"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 17, 2020, 01:57:50 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 01:52:08 PM

Can your Turkish friends explain "Why did Constantinople get the works?"

It's none of your business.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2020, 02:22:03 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 01:52:08 PM

Can your Turkish friends explain "Why did Constantinople get the works?"

I have not asked.  We were supposed to go there with him in April.  That didn't happen of course.  Now he wants to go to Egypt, and the wife wants to as well.

For the waters?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2020, 02:32:23 PM

What is American food, other than eggs for breakfast?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 17, 2020, 03:03:02 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2020, 02:32:23 PM

What is American food, other than eggs for breakfast?

Chop suey and General Tso's Chicken.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2020, 03:22:55 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2020, 02:32:23 PM

What is American food, other than eggs for breakfast?

One could say corn with some basis in fact and history.  Europeans really don't eat corn.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2020, 03:25:04 PM

Egg Foo Young then.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 17, 2020, 03:29:44 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2020, 02:32:23 PM

What is American food, other than eggs for breakfast?

couple Greek families here had "american" food cafes.  Specialized in breakfast

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2020, 03:45:51 PM

Eggs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 17, 2020, 03:48:06 PM

eggs, toast, pancakes, waffles, hashbrowned taters, sausage gravy, and coffee are cheap.

good profit margin on breakfast

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 03:49:37 PM

You forgot grits, wonderful grits.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 03:51:17 PM

BBQ is pretty much American.  There are other regions around the globe that have dishes they refer to as "BBQ," but indirect slow-smoked big hunks of fatty stringy meat are fairly unique to the USA.  I've certainly never seen it as a local staple elsewhere in the world.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 17, 2020, 03:57:19 PM

no grits up here

some good hash

some good corn meal mush

(https://conniefiskfoodadventures.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/img_2384.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2020, 03:57:22 PM

https://germanfoods.org/recipes/german-barbecue-recipes/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 04:08:26 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2020, 03:57:22 PM

https://germanfoods.org/recipes/german-barbecue-recipes/

From your link:

"What would a barbecue be without a great sausage hot dog topped with sauerkraut and mustard accompanied by potato salad and pickles and washed down with a refreshing glass of beer? "

Uhhh, no.  That's not BBQ.

Hence my point about many regions around the world having foods they refer to as "BBQ" but none are the American style of slow-smoked indirect heat for huge hunks of poor animal cuts.

There's something called "Korean BBQ" too, which is delicious-- but it's not BBQ.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2020, 04:10:21 PM

My buddy Franz has a smoker.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 17, 2020, 04:11:16 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2020, 02:32:23 PM

What is American food, other than eggs for breakfast?

Walleye,Perch in beer batter

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 04:13:01 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2020, 04:10:21 PM

My buddy Franz has a smoker.

How very American of him. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 17, 2020, 04:13:33 PM

1. My goal for 2020 was to lose 10 pounds. Only have 14 to go.

2. Ate salad for dinner.  Mostly croutons & tomatoes. Really just one big round crouton covered with tomato sauce, and cheese. FINE, it was a pizza.... OK, I ate a pizza! Are you happy now?

3. How to prepare Tofu:

  a.  Throw it in the trash
  b.  Grill some meat, chicken or fish

4. I just did a week's worth of cardio after walking into a spider web.

5. I don't mean to brag, but I finished my 14-day diet food supply in 3 hours and 20 minutes.

6. A recent study has found women who carry a little extra weight live longer than men who mention it.

7. Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

8. Senility has been a smooth transition for me.

9. Remember back when we were kids and every time it was below zero outside they closed school? Yeah, Me neither.

10. I may not be that funny or athletic or good looking or smart or talented. I forgot where I was going with this.

11. I love being almost 80, I learn something new every day and forget 5 other things.

12. A thief broke into my house last night. He started searching for money so I woke up and searched with him

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 04:14:59 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 17, 2020, 04:11:16 PM

Walleye,Perch in beer batter

Mmmmmm.

We don't get walleye here, but I ate a ton of it whilst living/working in Minnesota many years back.

I also wish we could get amberjack here, so tasty.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 17, 2020, 04:21:56 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 01:14:15 PM

Now you're speaking my language!

As long as it's homemade eggnog of course.  I can't stand the storebought stuff.

I still have about a quart of nog from last year's final batch.  

Even pasturized how does that happen - Freezing?I've never made it mom use to though we have some local creamery/dairy that makes it,damn good.It's the only time I don't drink coffee black either

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 17, 2020, 04:22:38 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 04:08:26 PM

 great sausage hot dog 

well, a great sausage hot dog would certainly have been smoked.  Even of you're going to put it on the grill to warm it up and add a few marks

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2020, 04:25:38 PM

Yeah, the Germans smoke a lot of meats/cuts, but you're not going to find a cut like brisket over there very often.

That goes into the grind for burgers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 17, 2020, 04:27:28 PM

Quote from: utee94 on Today at 01:52:08 PM (https://www.cfb51.com/big-ten/in-other-news-18271/msg282597/#msg282597)

Quote

Can your Turkish friends explain "Why did Constantinople get the works?"

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 17, 2020, 01:57:50 PM

It's none of your business.

I don't get it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 17, 2020, 04:29:20 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2020, 04:25:38 PM

Yeah, the Germans smoke a lot of meats/cuts, but you're not going to find a cut like brisket over there very often.

That goes into the grind for burgers.

Evidently the East Carolina Que with spicy mustard is from the Tuetonic Types

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2020, 04:32:33 PM

They do a lot of pork there, that's for sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 04:48:24 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2020, 04:25:38 PM

Yeah, the Germans smoke a lot of meats/cuts, but you're not going to find a cut like brisket over there very often.

That goes into the grind for burgers.

They smoke a few things.  They don't make BBQ.  A smoked sausage in a hot dog, is not BBQ.  They certainly don't make anything like brisket or whole hog, which is what I'm pointing out as being "American" and yet you're arguing an incorrect viewpoint because... reasons?

:)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 04:50:23 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 17, 2020, 04:27:28 PM

Quote from: utee94 on Today at 01:52:08 PM (https://www.cfb51.com/big-ten/in-other-news-18271/msg282597/#msg282597)
I don't get it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo0X77OBJUg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 04:52:14 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 17, 2020, 04:21:56 PM

Even pasturized how does that happen - Freezing?I've never made it mom use to though we have some local creamery/dairy that makes it,damn good.It's the only time I don't drink coffee black either

Nah don't need to freeze it.  Just refrigerated.  It keeps, more or less.

Alton Brown did an episode on it, you could watch it and see what he has to say, he usually explains the science really well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2020, 04:55:29 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 17, 2020, 04:29:20 PM

Evidently the East Carolina Que with spicy mustard is from the Tuetonic Types

That is more South Carolina.  Eastern Carolina is vinegar based.

https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/58486/eastern-north-carolina-bbq-sauce/

• [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.95)]1 cup white vinegar
  [/color]
• [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.95)]1 cup cider vinegar
  [/color]
• [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.95)]1 tablespoon brown sugar
  [/color]
• [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.95)]1 tablespoon cayenne pepper
  [/color]
• [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.95)]1 tablespoon hot pepper sauce (e.g. Tabasco™), or to taste
  [/color]
• [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.95)]1 teaspoon salt
  [/color]
• [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.95)]1 teaspoon ground black pepper [/color]

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 05:03:27 PM

That's a lotta vinegar.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 17, 2020, 05:30:27 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 04:08:26 PM

From your link:

"What would a barbecue be without a great sausage hot dog topped with sauerkraut and mustard accompanied by potato salad and pickles and washed down with a refreshing glass of beer? "

Uhhh, no.  That's not BBQ.

Hence my point about many regions around the world having foods they refer to as "BBQ" but none are the American style of slow-smoked indirect heat for huge hunks of poor animal cuts.

There's something called "Korean BBQ" too, which is delicious-- but it's not BBQ.

I thought BBQ was anything, as long as it's slathered in "BBQ sauce"?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2020, 06:02:05 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 17, 2020, 05:30:27 PM

I thought BBQ was anything, as long as it's slathered in "BBQ sauce"?

BBQ is anything that is slow cooked with offset heat, in effect, with or without sauce.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 06:02:13 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 17, 2020, 05:30:27 PM

I thought BBQ was anything, as long as it's slathered in "BBQ sauce"?

Good point.

The McRib is a fine BBQ sandwich. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2020, 06:03:13 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 05:03:27 PM

That's a lotta vinegar.

It is rather vinegary, another thing I adjusted to over time and came to like.  The pulled pork has a distinctive gray color and doesn't look very appetizing really.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 06:37:43 PM

I don't like vinegar sauce on pulled pork, and I won't use it. When I smoke a pork butt I just capture the juices and reintroduce those when pulling and mixing the meat.

And also, when I smoke a pork butt, it always ends up with great color and a lot of barky bits, that I pull into the mix.  Not sure why the folks in Carolina wouldn't be able to do that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 17, 2020, 09:15:08 PM

they do, but when it sits in a warmer for hours waiting in the buffet it turns grey

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 17, 2020, 09:16:25 PM

Cooking a whole pig is more popular in Carolina, but it's a lot tougher to get good flavor through the whole thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 17, 2020, 09:17:56 PM

popular in Hawaii as well

comes out kinda grey

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 17, 2020, 11:45:48 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 04:50:23 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo0X77OBJUg

What the hell was that - never saw/heard that in my life

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 18, 2020, 06:30:29 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 04:48:24 PM

They smoke a few things.  They don't make BBQ.  A smoked sausage in a hot dog, is not BBQ.  They certainly don't make anything like brisket or whole hog, which is what I'm pointing out as being "American" and yet you're arguing an incorrect viewpoint because... reasons?

:)

I posted that you will not find brisket there. They use it for hamburger - which is good. I do the same on occasion.

As for not doing BBQ, well, they do. Applying smoke and low levels of heat is BBQ. They do this. They just don't do it on cuts that take 18 hours.

They do make pork shoulder a lot. Poultry too. Not much in the beef department though.

Why is sausage not BBQ in Germany, but it is in Texas? I've had both and they are both stellar.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 18, 2020, 06:52:23 AM

I love vinegar, so obviously I love the Carolina sauce. I love pickles too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 18, 2020, 06:56:20 AM

Also really like this stuff. 

https://www.southernliving.com/recipes/white-bbq-sauce

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 08:01:55 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 18, 2020, 06:30:29 AM

I posted that you will not find brisket there. They use it for hamburger - which is good. I do the same on occasion.

As for not doing BBQ, well, they do. Applying smoke and low levels of heat is BBQ. They do this. They just don't do it on cuts that take 18 hours.

They do make pork shoulder a lot. Poultry too. Not much in the beef department though.

Why is sausage not BBQ in Germany, but it is in Texas? I've had both and they are both stellar.

I've spent months in Germany.  Show me these BBQ restaurants if you insist they exist.

BBQ sausage is filler.  I cook it for others but don't bother eating it.

Brisket, ribs, pulled pork.  BBQ-- the American style and specific cuisine I've been talking about this entire time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 08:04:27 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2020, 02:32:23 PM

What is American food, other than eggs for breakfast?

I mean, you're the one that brought up eggs.  Those aren't American.  I've had eggs all over the world.

Cooking them in specific ways at specific times?  Okay, that might be American.

See what I'm saying, now? :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 08:10:12 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 17, 2020, 03:03:02 PM

Chop suey and General Tso's Chicken.

I also liked bwar's response here.  It's pretty on-point.  

We've altered the cuisines of lots of other countries and created uniquely American dishes.

"Chinese" food is often American.  Tex-Mex is American.  

Grits are not American because they're the same thing as polenta, which is not American.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 18, 2020, 08:17:39 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 08:01:55 AM

I've spent months in Germany.  Show me these BBQ restaurants if you insist they exist.

BBQ sausage is filler.  I cook it for others but don't bother eating it.

Brisket, ribs, pulled pork.  BBQ-- the American style and specific cuisine I've been talking about this entire time.

There's not many, just as there are not many in the US outside of the South and Texas.

The Germans I know (4 families) all have smokers and they all smoke meats. I don't know what else to say. They do it over there.

Lots of European countries do smoked meats as I understand it, mostly East. My understanding is that the Czech's had a lot of influence on CenTex BBQ, and maybe still do?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 08:24:47 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 18, 2020, 08:17:39 AM

There's not many, just as there are not many in the US outside of the South and Texas.

The Germans I know (4 families) all have smokers and they all smoke meats. I don't know what else to say. They do it over there.

Lots of European countries do smoked meats as I understand it, mostly East. My understanding is that the Czech's had a lot of influence on CenTex BBQ, and maybe still do?

The Czechs and Germans brought us sausage.  That's their contribution. :)

I'm glad your German friends are so progressively American though, good on them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 18, 2020, 08:25:59 AM

Reminds me of the server who asked if I wanted my smoked salmon medium rare or medium.

I think smoking is a different, though related process, to BBQ.  You can smoke a ham to preserved it for example, it's not BBQ.

And of course there is salt curing, my granddad did both smoke and salt cured hams, which we call country ham.  He taught it to the Italians.

https://www.thespruceeats.com/what-is-prosciutto-1328662

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 18, 2020, 08:28:03 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 08:01:55 AM

BBQ sausage is filler.  I cook it for others but don't bother eating it.

(https://i.imgur.com/9AzlAQn.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 08:29:56 AM

Not BBQ, but the Czechs also brought us the kolache and the klobasnek, for which I am eternally grateful.

Although arguably the klobasnek actually IS American, as many accounts have them originating here, albeit from Czech bakeries.  Which would make sense, as when I was in the Czech Republic I saw plenty of kolaches in bakeries, but didn't see any klobasnek over there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 18, 2020, 08:32:02 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 18, 2020, 08:17:39 AM

There's not many, just as there are not many in the US outside of the South and Texas.

The Germans I know (4 families) all have smokers and they all smoke meats. I don't know what else to say. They do it over there.

Lots of European countries do smoked meats as I understand it, mostly East. My understanding is that the Czech's had a lot of influence on CenTex BBQ, and maybe still do?

Smoking has been around for time eternal Native American smoked meats

(https://i.imgur.com/mfgsX5N.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/1QtH3FU.png)
https://www.offthegridnews.com/off-grid-foods/long-term-meat-preservation-the-native-american-way/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 08:32:17 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 18, 2020, 08:25:59 AM

Reminds me of the server who asked if I wanted my smoked salmon medium rare or medium.

I think smoking is a different, though related process, to BBQ.  You can smoke a ham to preserved it for example, it's not BBQ.

And of course there is salt curing, my granddad did both smoke and salt cured hams, which we call country ham.  He taught it to the Italians.

https://www.thespruceeats.com/what-is-prosciutto-1328662

Yes, a lot of people seem to think that smoke-curing is the same as smoke-BBQing, but they're two different processes for two different purposes.

Even more people think grilling is BBQing, but everyone around here is smart enough to know the difference, so we won't talk about that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 18, 2020, 08:38:36 AM

Ed Zachery though some don't know how to cook proper chili - so we won't talk about that either

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 18, 2020, 08:41:35 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 08:24:47 AM

The Czechs and Germans brought us sausage.  That's their contribution. :)

I'm glad your German friends are so progressively American though, good on them.

Perhaps but the Poles/Italians/Slovenians/Hungarians might want a word with you.Though the Gerries may have arrived much sooner - you like that word?Slovenian Easter Sausage they make here in Cleveland is just......you have to try it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 18, 2020, 08:49:35 AM

There is a neat book out called "Salt" that goes through its history and how critical it was back in the day to nearly every aspect of life, especially the military.

Preserving food is an obvious necessity when you have hard winters.  A lot of Southern food is derived from the need for preservation without refrigeration.

Smoking meats was of course an alternative to using salt.  Food is pretty interesting, history thereof etc.

We dined at the French place last night with our neighbor the physicist.  Good stuff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 18, 2020, 08:55:09 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 18, 2020, 08:49:35 AM

Smoking meats was of course an alternative to using salt.  Food is pretty interesting, history thereof etc.

I've found food comes in handy - no matter what form

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 09:01:47 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 18, 2020, 08:49:35 AM

There is a neat book out called "Salt" that goes through its history and how critical it was back in the day to nearly every aspect of life, especially the military.

Preserving food is an obvious necessity when you have hard winters.  A lot of Southern food is derived from the need for preservation without refrigeration.

Smoking meats was of course an alternative to using salt.  Food is pretty interesting, history thereof etc.

We dined at the French place last night with our neighbor the physicist.  Good stuff.

In the South it was also a way of cooking outdoors, to keep from heating up the kitchen and consequently the entire house, in the pre-air-conditioning days.  That's another reason why BBQ is so prevalent in the South versus other places in the USA.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 18, 2020, 09:09:05 AM

My granddad had a smoke house, really a shed, for smoking meat (ham).  They'd wrap the hams in a burlap kind of white cloth and hang them and smoke the place up.  He also salt cured hams as well, sometimes doing both, the result was delicious.

Back in the day, the kitchen was often a separate building because of the danger of fire, at least for larger houses.  Of course the poor lived in a one or two room "shack" and were glad to have it.  

Those folks lived lives full of work.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 18, 2020, 09:14:34 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 09:01:47 AM

In the South it was also a way of cooking outdoors, to keep from heating up the kitchen and consequently the entire house, in the pre-air-conditioning days.  That's another reason why BBQ is so prevalent in the South versus other places in the USA.

Smoking was prevelant everywhere as a good fire was hard to maintain(even with a smokehouse) when the cold Candadian winds come by and stuck around.So smoke as much as possible during the moderate weather when game was easily accessible

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 18, 2020, 10:12:46 AM

We stayed three days in Marquette, MI on the waterfront.  There was a fish smoking place just west of the motel, and they had some awesome stuff.

The wife still talks about it.  Thill's and Sons.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g42441-d7119448-r229279818-Thill_s_Fish_House-Marquette_Upper_Peninsula_Michigan.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 18, 2020, 10:21:50 AM

The Golden Flashes put it on the Zips to the tune of 69-35 thumping last nite in Maction taking the Wagon Wheel trophy from rival Akron
Kent State (3-0, 3-0 Mid-American Conference) is off to its best start since 1958.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 18, 2020, 10:24:54 AM

Rauchbier goes well with American BBQ, I'll say that :72:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 18, 2020, 10:26:18 AM

Now I'm hungry, might venture over to Fox Bros. for lunch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 18, 2020, 10:27:09 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 18, 2020, 10:12:46 AM

We stayed three days in Marquette, MI on the waterfront.  There was a fish smoking place just west of the motel, and they had some awesome stuff.

My brother was stationed for quite a few years at KI Sawyer AF Base as a AT Contoller.He loved it even in the winter as he had a 4 wheel drive Chevy Pick Up and made money on the side plowing during those bad winters.The base is now decommisioned but still used as a county airport I believe

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 18, 2020, 10:28:06 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 18, 2020, 10:24:54 AM

Rauchbier goes well with American BBQ, I'll say that :72:

I've had that - unique I guess is the word

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2020, 10:30:15 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 18, 2020, 06:56:20 AM

Also really like this stuff.

https://www.southernliving.com/recipes/white-bbq-sauce

nope

I'd try it, but doubt I'd really like it much

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2020, 10:30:34 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 17, 2020, 11:45:48 PM

What the hell was that - never saw/heard that in my life

not clicking on that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2020, 10:31:54 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 08:01:55 AM

BBQ sausage is filler.  I cook it for others but don't bother eating it.

Dude,

I'll eat it.
sides and salads are filler
Not good sausage

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2020, 10:33:40 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 18, 2020, 08:28:03 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/9AzlAQn.png)

Amen

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 18, 2020, 10:34:13 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 17, 2020, 04:50:23 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo0X77OBJUg

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 17, 2020, 11:45:48 PM

What the hell was that - never saw/heard that in my life

Quote from: FearlessF on November 18, 2020, 10:30:34 AM

not clicking on that

Some people just have no culture.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 18, 2020, 10:38:05 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 18, 2020, 10:34:13 AM

Some people just have no culture.

No RauchBier or Blind Robins for YOU

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2020, 10:40:17 AM

I've had some smoked beers

as with any beer, some are better than others, but none were so bad I couldn't get them sown

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2020, 10:41:29 AM

I'm not a big Herring fan, but I'll eat them while hunting or ice fishing if I get hungry enough

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 18, 2020, 10:47:44 AM

Ugh... Thought I was having problems with the new amp in the Jeep after redoing the sound system. So I packaged it up, sent it off to Alpine (along with a $95 service fee b/c I bought it cheaper off Amazon and not from an authorized seller), and figured everything would be repaired and good as new.

Nope. Came back as No Trouble Found. Of course it did. Because I'm usually the one on the other side where a customer tells me something's wrong and we get the drive back and it's behaving perfectly. 

Wonder if it's the head unit just not putting anything out on those channels. Guess I'm back to the drawing board on troubleshooting. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 10:51:48 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 18, 2020, 10:24:54 AM

Rauchbier goes well with American BBQ, I'll say that :72:

Indeed it does. Grodsizkie does, too!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 10:52:51 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 18, 2020, 10:47:44 AM

Ugh... Thought I was having problems with the new amp in the Jeep after redoing the sound system. So I packaged it up, sent it off to Alpine (along with a $95 service fee b/c I bought it cheaper off Amazon and not from an authorized seller), and figured everything would be repaired and good as new.

Nope. Came back as No Trouble Found. Of course it did. Because I'm usually the one on the other side where a customer tells me something's wrong and we get the drive back and it's behaving perfectly.

Wonder if it's the head unit just not putting anything out on those channels. Guess I'm back to the drawing board on troubleshooting.

My first two EE questions are always-- is it plugged in, is it turned on? :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 18, 2020, 10:53:20 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 18, 2020, 10:47:44 AM

Ugh... Thought I was having problems with the new amp in the Jeep after redoing the sound system. So I packaged it up, sent it off to Alpine 

No RauchBier or Blind Robins for your Jeep either

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 10:58:14 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 18, 2020, 10:53:20 AM

No RauchBier or Blind Robins for your Jeep either

Live Oak does a version of their Oktoberfest using smoked malts, it's called Smoketoberfest.  Quite tasty.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2020, 10:58:57 AM

can I buy that on-line?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 10:59:43 AM

Nope, available at the brewery only, and only during Sept/Oct.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2020, 11:01:45 AM

btw, I tried a 6 pack of the SHINER HOLIDAY CHEER

Brewed by Spoetzl Brewery 

Winter Seasonal Beer5.4% ABV22 IBU

A moderately dark German-style wheat beer with a banana-and-clove yeast character, supported by a toasted bread flavor.

_______________________________________________

tastes a bit too much like cough syrup for me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 18, 2020, 11:02:44 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 10:58:14 AM

Live Oak does a version of their Oktoberfest using smoked malts, it's called Smoketoberfest.  Quite tasty.

With the Virus spiking perhaps they should send all of that up here I'll make sure it's quarantined proper

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 11:10:57 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 18, 2020, 11:01:45 AM

btw, I tried a 6 pack of the SHINER HOLIDAY CHEER

Brewed by Spoetzl Brewery

Winter Seasonal Beer5.4% ABV22 IBU

A moderately dark German-style wheat beer with a banana-and-clove yeast character, supported by a toasted bread flavor.

_______________________________________________

tastes a bit too much like cough syrup for me

I'm not a fan.  In general, the Spoetzl Brewery has become too macro for me.  I'll occasionally drink a Shiner Bock out of nostalgia, but now they've cheapened the ingredients and use a lot of corn adjunct, and it comes through really strong in the flavor profile.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2020, 11:15:00 AM

I like to try different beers

figured I'd give the Shiner boys a chance with the 6er

I'll be giving something different a chance next time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 11:59:25 AM

Yeah, worth a shot.  I know a couple of people that really like Shiner Cheer.  For me, it definitely tastes medicine-y, as well. I'd guess it's coming from liquid flavoring extracts, a cheaper way to induce flavors into beer than going the natural routes.  bwar could explain it much better than I can.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 18, 2020, 12:37:20 PM

Well just leave out Istanbul and the Turks and the larks that sing about it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 12:40:39 PM

Can't believe you've never heard of They Might Be Giants.

You can think of them as a bit like a modern day Kingston Trio.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2020, 01:09:00 PM

do they have a #1 hit similar to " Tom Dooley "?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 18, 2020, 01:15:40 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 10:52:51 AM

My first two EE questions are always-- is it plugged in, is it turned on? :)

Crap... I knew I forgot something!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SFBadger96 on November 18, 2020, 02:29:02 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 12:40:39 PM

Can't believe you've never heard of They Might Be Giants.

You can think of them as a bit like a modern day Kingston Trio.

They're olllllddddd. Not like us whippersnappers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 18, 2020, 02:31:57 PM

Nah, I don't think They Might Be Giants ever sang about a man going to the gallows.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 18, 2020, 02:35:39 PM

Second Hand Lions was fun.

Had lunch here, highly recommended.

https://pastadapulcinella.com/#home-section

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2020, 02:45:41 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on November 18, 2020, 02:31:57 PM

Nah, I don't think They Might Be Giants ever sang about a man going to the gallows.

how about a #1 hit?  regardless of storyline

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 02:51:07 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 18, 2020, 02:45:41 PM

how about a #1 hit?  regardless of storyline

Not as far as I know.

They did have a #3 hit in 1990.

Got any other irrelevant questions I can answer for you?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 18, 2020, 03:02:52 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on November 18, 2020, 02:31:57 PM

Nah, I don't think They Might Be Giants ever sang about a man going to the gallows.

Does a guillotine count?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJRR3Ltm_sw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2020, 03:03:36 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 02:51:07 PM

Not as far as I know.

They did have a #3 hit in 1990.

Got any other irrelevant questions I can answer for you?

Burnt Eye's mailing address?

He's on my Christmas card list

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 18, 2020, 03:45:00 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 02:51:07 PM

Not as far as I know.

They did have a #3 hit in 1990.

Got any other irrelevant questions I can answer for you?

No - a number 3,3 decades ago and a LongHorns fan is irrelevance enough

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 18, 2020, 03:47:02 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 18, 2020, 03:03:36 PM

He's on my Christmas card list

I'm on some lists but they don't begin with Christmas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2020, 03:57:42 PM

so I've heard

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2020, 04:02:49 PM

The majority of American sports fans are waiting for the arrival of a COVID-19 vaccine before they feel comfortable returning to the bleachers, according to a new study conducted this past weekend.

Two-thirds of the survey respondents said they would not attend an indoor sporting event without a vaccine -- even if masks and social distancing measures were being enforced in the arena. Among respondents who identified themselves as sports fans, 60% said they were waiting for a vaccine.

For outdoor sporting events, 58% of all respondents said they also were waiting on a vaccine rather than trusting personal protective equipment or social distancing to keep them safe in a large crowd.

The survey, conducted by Seton Hall University's Sharkey Institute, collected answers from 1,506 adults from across the country. The responses were collected from Nov. 13 through Nov. 16 -- roughly one week after Pfizer announced that an early trial showed it had developed a COVID-19 vaccine that was more than 90% effective.

A similar poll conducted in April, weeks after the sports world came to a sudden halt, found that 72% of Americans were unwilling to attend any kind of sporting event (indoor or outdoor) without the availability of a vaccine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 18, 2020, 04:15:09 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 18, 2020, 03:47:02 PM

I'm on some lists but they don't begin with Christmas

Can't spell Christmas without an S, H, I or T.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 18, 2020, 04:51:16 PM

speaking of Christmas, I've been trying to get a new Xbox or Playstation for my little nephews for Christmas but it's literally impossible thanks to manufacturing/supply chains in China being screwed up by the China Virus and these god damn things only being sold online and not in stores- why they are selling only online- god knows why and I have no idea. 

Anyway, apparently there are these computer programs called bots- which basically attack retail websites 24/7 and add items a cart and checkout instantly- and these computer nerds use these bots to collect street wear and exclusive sneakers to either keep or resell them and price gouge the living shit out of people on resell markets like eBay or Amazon and sell things at 5-10x retail price- and these asshole nerds have been turning their shoe bots to retailers to buy up all the already limited supply of Xbox/PS units. I saw an article where one person bought literally over 30 PS5 with bots and has been selling something that retails for $499 on eBay for like $2k a pop.

I completely gave up trying basically right away as it's impossible. Instead of buying them the brand Xbox/PS bought them Nintendo Switch with a bunch of Mario games.

Having said all this, I would seriously like to injure these sneaker bot nerds- and I have no idea why these retail sites and/or US law makers don't do something about these dumb ass bots and price gouging on eBay/Amazon. It baffles me actually.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 18, 2020, 05:01:05 PM

My brothers are game nerds. You want me to investigate a source? They seem to be able to get things others can't, through connections.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 18, 2020, 05:02:58 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 18, 2020, 04:51:16 PM

speaking of Christmas, I've been trying to get a new Xbox or Playstation for my little nephews for Christmas but it's literally impossible thanks to manufacturing/supply chains in China being screwed up by the China Virus and these god damn things only being sold online and not in stores- why they are selling only online- god knows why and I have no idea.

Anyway, apparently there are these computer programs called bots- which basically attack retail websites 24/7 and add items a cart and checkout instantly- and these computer nerds use these bots to collect street wear and exclusive sneakers to either keep or resell them and price gouge the living shit out of people on resell markets like eBay or Amazon and sell things at 5-10x retail price- and these asshole nerds have been turning their shoe bots to retailers to buy up all the already limited supply of Xbox/PS units. I saw an article where one person bought literally over 30 PS5 with bots and has been selling something that retails for $499 on eBay for like $2k a pop.

I completely gave up trying basically right away as it's impossible. Instead of buying them the brand Xbox/PS bought them Nintendo Switch with a bunch of Mario games.

Having said all this, I would seriously like to injure these sneaker bot nerds- and I have no idea why these retail sites and/or US law makers don't do something about these dumb ass bots and price gouging on eBay/Amazon. It baffles me actually.

I suspect the retail sites, if they wanted, could try to detect and restrict bots. But I don't know what lawmakers could do. 

You know how to stop this? Don't pay $2K on eBay for a $500 item. But sadly, people are willing to do so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 18, 2020, 05:12:41 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 18, 2020, 05:02:58 PM

I suspect the retail sites, if they wanted, could try to detect and restrict bots. But I don't know what lawmakers could do.

You know how to stop this? Don't pay $2K on eBay for a $500 item. But sadly, people are willing to do so.

Oh I'm not that stupid, trust me- I would never pay $2k for a $500 retail item. I have no idea why people are willing to do that.  Blows my mind. I think some are just desperate to get stuff for their kids for Christmas.

The retail sites really don't give a shit. They have zero incentive to stop the bots. As long as a sale is made and they collect their money- they don't give a rats ass. Why would they spend more money on IT/programmers to try to stop the bots- which in turn adds to their overhead and eats into their profit? Which let's be honest- the profit is all they care about. They don't give a shit about their customer.

The government can pass strict laws against them and the re-selling of items bought with bots- and enforce it. Hammer a nerdy botter or two and make examples out of them and throw the book at them and send them to prison for a couple years and the entire thing would crumble. These teenage nerds and jagoffs who live in moms basement aren't looking to do jail time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 18, 2020, 05:16:51 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 18, 2020, 05:01:05 PM

My brothers are game nerds. You want me to investigate a source? They seem to be able to get things others can't, through connections.

Sure. I'd appreciate it, but don't waste their time or yours too much. My guess is they won't be able to do much. There is a very limited supply because of the China Virus screwing up production/supply chains and then the demand is enormous- and then you have the bots buying up literally everything instantly because the people who use the bots have them set up to basically attack the retailers websites 24/7- so as soon as any stock goes live on their sites they are basically instantly gone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2020, 05:28:30 PM

if the government can crack down on folks reselling toilet paper and hand sanitizer, they could arrest these asshats

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 05:39:02 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 18, 2020, 03:45:00 PM

No - a number 3,3 decades ago and a LongHorns fan is irrelevance enough

If you think 3 decades ago is a long time, you should ask Fearless when the Kingston Trio charted their #1 hit about a man dying at the gallows!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 18, 2020, 05:42:40 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 18, 2020, 05:01:05 PM

My brothers are game nerds. You want me to investigate a source? They seem to be able to get things others can't, through connections.

Ya by showing him the Benjamins

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 18, 2020, 05:44:00 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 05:39:02 PM

If you think 3 decades ago is a long time, you should ask Fearless when the Kingston Trio charted their #1 hit about a man dying at the gallows!

They also sang about the good ship Rueben James also

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 05:53:53 PM

My favorite Kingston Trio song is MTA.  

But I also have a lot of love for:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8-BI89mb9A


Kinda reminiscent of 2020, no?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 18, 2020, 05:57:19 PM

Eh. It's arbitrage. 

We've seen the exact same thing with concert tickets for decades. 

But on what legal principal can you declare that property which you have purchased cannot be resold? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 06:15:27 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 18, 2020, 05:57:19 PM

Eh. It's arbitrage.

That's my absolute favorite Beastie Boys tune!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 18, 2020, 06:21:36 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 18, 2020, 05:57:19 PM

Eh. It's arbitrage.

We've seen the exact same thing with concert tickets for decades.

But on what legal principal can you declare that property which you have purchased cannot be resold?

They government has made bots illegal in concert ticket sales and cracked down on US companies that were buying tickets bots and then re-selling. Which has just caused a lot of them to move their base of operations out of the country. 

This was a big international business where people were making millions of dollars using bots to buy concert tickets all over the world and than re-sell them and make millions.

The street-wear/sneaker/ps5/xbox thing is teenage nerds in moms basement on twitter/youtube. It could be cracked down and shut down in two seconds flat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 18, 2020, 07:02:00 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 18, 2020, 06:21:36 PM

They government has made bots illegal in concert ticket sales and cracked down on US companies that were buying tickets bots and then re-selling. Which has just caused a lot of them to move their base of operations out of the country.

This was a big international business where people were making millions of dollars using bots to buy concert tickets all over the world and than re-sell them and make millions.

Did they even move out of the country?

Or is it just unenforceable?

https://queue-it.com/blog/ticket-bots/

Quote

5. Has legislation been effective?

Enforceability isn’t easy

Enforceability is an ever-present issue with ticketing legislation. Just because a law is on the books doesn’t mean it’s followed. Strong enforcement is necessary to curb illegal behavior.

Indeed, when the Ontario ban originally passed, attorney general Yasir Niqvi acknowledged (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/scalper-bot-law-1.4447388) the difficulty of enforcing the bot ban, as many bot operators are located outside of the province. He cited the 50% resale cap as an easier enforcement tool. Two years later, in 2019, Ontario’s government rolled back (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-scalpers-ticket-resale-cap-ford-1.5098924) the 50% resale cap, saying it wasn’t enforceable.   

Similarly, in the U.S. the BOTS Act’s bark has been worse than its bite. The Federal Trade Commission—the agency tasked with enforcing the law—couldn’t comment on any instances of enforcement (http://web.archive.org/web/20190903201830/https://www.king5.com/article/news/nation-world/why-federal-law-hasnt-stopped-online-ticket-scalpers-from-cheating/507-563962209) since the BOTS Act’s passage.

And even when the law was passed, the Congressional Budget Office judged it unlikely (https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52064) that any enforcement would take place.

“CBO estimates that [revenues from civil penalties] would be insignificant because of the small number of cases that the agency would probably pursue.”

The financial incentives are too lucrative

Using bots to scalp tickets is a perfect example of rent-seeking behavior (http://freakonomics.com/podcast/live-event-ticket-market-screwed/) (economist talk for leeching) that adds no benefit to society. But as long as there’s a secondary market to sell tickets at markups of over 1,000% (http://www.ag.ny.gov/pdfs/Ticket_Sales_Report.pdf), bad actors will fill the void to take advantage.

Indeed, the U.S. ticket resale market alone has ballooned to $5 billion (https://www.cnbc.com/2015/03/04/online-ticket-resellers-the-surreptitious-rise-of-the-online-scalper.html). Ticketmaster reported that it blocks 5 billion bot attempts (https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/8478525/ticketmaster-responds-senate-letter) every month. The financial incentive is simply too strong and the threat of legal action too weak to stop malicious bot operators.

Legislation can’t keep up with the technology

In such a rapidly evolving space, legislation becomes outdated as soon as it’s passed. The U.S. BOTS Act, for example, doesn’t appear to apply to people who purchase tickets where they’ve only used bots to reserve the tickets (as Denial of Inventory bots do). The newest iteration of bots will continue to outpace and outmaneuver the legal roadblocks. 

It’s clear that the ticketing industry cannot rely on legislation to solve the ticketing bot problem. The onus remains on venues, ticketing organizations, and online platforms to defend against malicious bots during online ticket sales. And companies that aren’t perceived as doing enough to battle bots are playing with fire. Public outrage can quickly turn on such organizations, and potential legal actions can follow in its footsteps.

Sounds from that like there has never been a single enforcement case against the people behind bots. Maybe that's because it went overseas. Or maybe that's because it's a toothless law?

Quote

The street-wear/sneaker/ps5/xbox thing is teenage nerds in moms basement on twitter/youtube. It could be cracked down and shut down in two seconds flat.

I'm not sure I believe in this either. How many teenage nerds have access to the sort of capital or credit necessary to pull this off at a large scale? 

Teenage nerds are known more for access to time than to capital. It might not even be bots. It might be hordes of them spending countless hours clicking "refresh" on sites trying to find stock and order 1 or 2 of something with the expectation of resale, rather than bots who might be able to collect 10-20 units. Especially at the order of something like a PS5 or XBox where 20 units might run you 10 grand...

You might have a bunch of guys like me or utee, who are old and successful enough nerds that we have significant access to credit, who do something like this on the side. But I'm pretty sure it's not teenage nerds in mom's basement. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 18, 2020, 11:37:38 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 18, 2020, 05:28:30 PM

if the government can crack down on folks reselling toilet paper and hand sanitizer, they could arrest these asshats

I think they politely asked Big Tech to do that, and Big Tech did because it was good PR. 

What would they be arrested for? Commerce. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 18, 2020, 11:40:14 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 18, 2020, 05:02:58 PM

I suspect the retail sites, if they wanted, could try to detect and restrict bots. But I don't know what lawmakers could do.

You know how to stop this? Don't pay $2K on eBay for a $500 item. But sadly, people are willing to do so.

This seems like kinda basic economics. These things are to a degree under priced. Or at least underpriced if the scarcity is turned up. A lot of folks will balk at $2K, and that's supply and demand working to perfection. 

And at some point, they'll burn through people willing to pay $2k and have to dump them, or someone will dump $500 versions back on the market and mildly patient people will get them. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 19, 2020, 07:52:22 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 18, 2020, 05:16:51 PM

Sure. I'd appreciate it, but don't waste their time or yours too much. My guess is they won't be able to do much. There is a very limited supply because of the China Virus screwing up production/supply chains and then the demand is enormous- and then you have the bots buying up literally everything instantly because the people who use the bots have them set up to basically attack the retailers websites 24/7- so as soon as any stock goes live on their sites they are basically instantly gone.

Good guess.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 19, 2020, 12:49:51 PM

in other news............ the weather here in NW Iowa is unseasonably awesome

I'm leaving the office to play 18 holes in shorts

can't remember doing that on November 19th

Cooler is packed with Bud Heavy

FORE!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 19, 2020, 01:01:06 PM

Miss Noonan,miss

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 19, 2020, 01:35:39 PM

Will be going for a bike ride later this afternoon. Very nice here in MSP. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 19, 2020, 02:08:45 PM

63°F here and sunny, about to take a walk and throw the baseball a bit on the tennis courts practice wall.  I bought a rubber ball today.

I'm supposed to be back to normal December 10.  I still have some deep ache in the shoulder when I do certain movements, part of the therapy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 19, 2020, 02:33:10 PM

67 and breezy - I'll take it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 19, 2020, 03:08:13 PM

Had to make a Costco run this morning. Place was PACKED. 

And my streak of picking the slowest cashier line is still going strong!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 19, 2020, 03:16:58 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 19, 2020, 03:08:13 PM

Had to make a Costco run this morning. Place was PACKED.

And my streak of picking the slowest cashier line is still going strong!

Hoarding?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 19, 2020, 03:21:36 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 19, 2020, 03:16:58 PM

Hoarding?

There was no toilet paper or paper towels to be found. Not that I was going to buy any--I'm not a hoarder. 

Other than that, the place was pretty well stocked. It wasn't like the start of the pandemic where meat and canned goods were completely gone. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 19, 2020, 03:24:58 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 19, 2020, 03:08:13 PM

Had to make a Costco run this morning. Place was PACKED.

And my streak of picking the slowest cashier line is still going strong!

Costco's in SFL are always like that. Love the products and deals in Costco but it's too packed for me. I'm way too impatient to deal with those lines and the swarm of people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 19, 2020, 03:29:11 PM

We usually go on "off days", which are Mon-Wed, and don't wait at the pumps long nor in check out lines for long, maybe 3 minutes, it can seem long.  The problem is I see some gorgeous 80" TV for $1300 and want it.

The good news is I own some COST stock which has been very good for me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 19, 2020, 03:31:30 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 19, 2020, 03:24:58 PM

Costco's in SFL are always like that. Love the products and deals in Costco but it's too packed for me. I'm way too impatient to deal with those lines and the swarm of people.

With WFH, I usually try to get there on a weekday morning when I don't have meetings. It was far more busy this morning than I'm used to. 

I don't want to go near the place on the weekends.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 19, 2020, 03:34:59 PM

Stores here are starting to limit numbers on things, to stave off the hoarders that will be down soon, from up North.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 19, 2020, 03:43:45 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 19, 2020, 03:24:58 PM

Costco's in SFL are always like that. Love the products and deals in Costco but it's too packed for me. I'm way too impatient to deal with those lines and the swarm of people.

The closest one to me is in West Palm which is 35 minute drive. For that reason I probably only go once every couple months which is different from my old house in Michigan which was 2 miles away and I spent a fortune in there every two weeks. You’re absolutely right though the one in West Palm is so crowded it’s absolutely ridiculous

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 19, 2020, 03:45:51 PM

We have not yet been down here - there are two in Fort Myers but that's a PIA.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 19, 2020, 03:46:57 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 19, 2020, 12:49:51 PM

in other news............ the weather here in NW Iowa is unseasonably awesome

I'm leaving the office to play 18 holes in shorts

can't remember doing that on November 19th

Cooler is packed with Bud Heavy

FORE!!!

I believe last year it was News Years Eve day or possibly the day before, me and my 3 friends that make up our foursome, played 18 holes in shorts in Northern Ohio, just 1 mile from Lake Erie. That was awesome!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 19, 2020, 03:48:51 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 19, 2020, 03:46:57 PM

I believe last year it was News Years Eve day or possibly the day before, me and my 3 friends that make up our foursome, played 18 holes in shorts in Northern Ohio, just 1 mile from Lake Erie. That was awesome!

You out in Huron?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 19, 2020, 03:52:31 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 19, 2020, 03:43:45 PM

The closest one to me is in West Palm which is 35 minute drive. For that reason I probably only go once every couple months which is different from my old house in Michigan which was 2 miles away and I spent a fortune in there every two weeks. You’re absolutely right though the one in West Palm is so crowded it’s absolutely ridiculous

I've got about 5 Costcos within about a 10 mile radius. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 19, 2020, 03:53:07 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 19, 2020, 03:48:51 PM

You out in Huron?

Yup, Thunderbird North that day. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 19, 2020, 04:03:53 PM

That's the only course that close to the lake I can think of - maybe Sweetbriar in Avon Lake was the other one

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 19, 2020, 04:18:41 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 19, 2020, 04:03:53 PM

That's the only course that close to the lake I can think of - maybe Sweetbriar in Avon Lake was the other one

I played that a couple of years ago. Nice course.

Do you live in the Cleveland Metro area?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 19, 2020, 04:22:30 PM

West suburbs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 19, 2020, 04:24:19 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 19, 2020, 03:34:59 PM

Stores here are starting to limit numbers on things, to stave off the hoarders that will be down soon, from up North.

Gotta hate those Northerners coming down and invading your home in Florida, dontcha? :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 19, 2020, 04:47:36 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 19, 2020, 03:46:57 PM

I believe last year it was News Years Eve day or possibly the day before, me and my 3 friends that make up our foursome, played 18 holes in shorts in Northern Ohio, just 1 mile from Lake Erie. That was awesome!

How was the wind?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 19, 2020, 04:48:52 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 19, 2020, 04:24:19 PM

Gotta hate those Northerners coming down and invading your home in Florida, dontcha? :)

Hey, I'm a permares now. We do not own a home anywhere else. Those people are going to come down here as trained hoarders.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 19, 2020, 05:05:49 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 19, 2020, 04:47:36 PM

How was the wind?

Barely blowing at all. The sun was out, the temps hit the low 70's and as I said, hardly a breeze. One of the most beautiful days to play golf other than the very limited daylight hours. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 19, 2020, 07:02:54 PM

beautiful day, little wind

greens were fuzzy, so where the fairways, but it was beautiful

beer was cold, sun was warm

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 19, 2020, 07:03:38 PM

I recommend The Taste of Conquest: The Rise and Fall of the Three Great Cities of Spice (https://www.amazon.com/Taste-Conquest-Three-Great-Cities-ebook/dp/B001J1S88U), by Michael Krondl.

Lots of description of what the 1% ate 500 years ago.

Overwhelmingly, the spice was pepper, to cover up the taste of food gone bad.

EDIT: I thought I quoted CD's comments about Salt when I posted this.  Anyway, this was in response to that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 19, 2020, 07:09:18 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 18, 2020, 06:56:20 AM

Also really like this stuff.

https://www.southernliving.com/recipes/white-bbq-sauce

Here's a quote:

Quote

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.95)]Next time you’re talking ‘cue in Alabama memorize these three little words: Alabama white BBQ sauce.[/color]

Math class must have been interesting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 19, 2020, 07:25:02 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 18, 2020, 05:53:53 PM

My favorite Kingston Trio song is MTA. 

But I also have a lot of love for:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8-BI89mb9A


Kinda reminiscent of 2020, no?

"Merry Minuet," one of my favorites from the Trio.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 19, 2020, 08:25:59 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on November 19, 2020, 07:25:02 PM

"Merry Minuet," one of my favorites from the Trio.

Yeah I have no idea why the Youtuber didn't title it correctly.  It was just the first one I pulled up whilst looking.

I sang it to my 13yo daughter after posting it here, and she was cracking up.  I asked why and she said, "you're singing about all these horrible things in such a cheerful way."  She gets it. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 20, 2020, 11:51:01 AM

Today, let’s remember one of the U.S. Army’s loudest (though not necessarily most dangerous) weapons of World War II. The T34 Calliope was a unique tank/rocket launcher combination that added two racks of rocket launchers to the turret of an ordinary Sherman tank. The result was an artillery piece that could dump up to 60 rockets on a target area, saturating it with nearly 260 pounds of high explosives.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a34716141/army-world-war-ii-tank-t34-caliope-rocket-launcher-history/ (https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a34716141/army-world-war-ii-tank-t34-caliope-rocket-launcher-history/)

American T-34 Tank - The Rocket Sherman - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srusVFgByjQ&feature=emb_logo)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 20, 2020, 12:15:49 PM

I'd imagine the A bombs were pretty loud.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 20, 2020, 12:32:01 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 20, 2020, 12:15:49 PM

I'd imagine the A bombs were pretty loud.

I was going to post that the A Bombs were weapons employed by the Air Force but then remembered that the Air Force didn't come into being until 1947. Being as the Air Corps was actually part of the Army during WWII and specifically 1945 when the 2 A Bombs were deployed, you are correct. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 20, 2020, 01:03:55 PM

My Dad was in the USAAF 1942-1945.

We only had two branches back then, Army and Navy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 20, 2020, 01:06:05 PM

Marine Corp?Was that Dept of the Navy?What about Coast Guard?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 20, 2020, 01:24:44 PM

The Coast Guard is the Vanderbilt of the armed forces, no?  Yeah, you're in the group, but just because.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 20, 2020, 01:26:37 PM

The Marine Corps (with an S) is still in the Department of the Navy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 20, 2020, 02:31:18 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 20, 2020, 01:24:44 PM

The Coast Guard is the Vanderbilt of the armed forces, no?  Yeah, you're in the group, but just because.

I know a lot of guys who are in the USCG. If you think it's easy, go ahead and sign up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 20, 2020, 02:48:19 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s600x600/125833569_1349797608691667_6421818593618006820_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=2&_nc_sid=a26aad&_nc_ohc=YOnwN-CRQTIAX9NsjtY&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=7&oh=fd662f56b3b4c1a678bda2dc72776583&oe=5FDCAF9A)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SFBadger96 on November 20, 2020, 07:59:01 PM

Saw this in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel today. This is a direct quote from the president of the University of Wisconsin system (Tommy Thompson, former governor and Secretary of the Health and Human Services, I think, under W. Bush):

"You go to the university to learn, but you also go to the university to grow up. You go there to have fun, you go there to watch football, you go there to drink beer, to have a cup of coffee, to study and learn."

Let's take a moment to thank the system president for plainly stating that one of the reasons to go the University of Wisconsin is to drink beer.

It's just about 5pm here. Time for me to have a cocktail.

On Wisconsin.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 20, 2020, 10:21:37 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 20, 2020, 12:32:01 PM

I was going to post that the A Bombs were weapons employed by the Air Force but then remembered that the Air Force didn't come into being until 1947. Being as the Air Corps was actually part of the Army during WWII and specifically 1945 when the 2 A Bombs were deployed, you are correct.

Ever since the Air Force came into existence as a separate service, we've had trouble winning serious wars.  The U.S. Army Air Forces were the greatest aerial weapon--relative to the first-rate competition it faced--of any air arm in history.
And the greatest amphibious invasion in history--Operation Overlord--was an Army-Navy thing too.  No need for any other services.
If it hadn't been for Belleau Wood, we might not have a U.S. Marine Corps today.  There were more soldiers than marines in that fight, but somehow the only story that got told to the American people was about the "Devil Dog" marines there.  And the whole "Teufel Hunden" story was fabricated too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 20, 2020, 10:26:49 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 20, 2020, 01:24:44 PM

The Coast Guard is the Vanderbilt of the armed forces, no?  Yeah, you're in the group, but just because.

The sharpest cadet I taught at West Point was a Coast Guard Academy exchange student.
The USCG used to be under Dept. of the Treasury control during peacetime (revenue cutters were a big thing) and Dept. of the Navy during wartime.
I think that their peacetime home these days is Dept. of Homeland Security.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 20, 2020, 10:32:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 20, 2020, 01:26:37 PM

The Marine Corps (with an S) is still in the Department of the Navy.

As the Space Force <rollseyes> is under the Department of the Air Force.
The Army's outnumbered.
And administrative authority is split six ways (if you count the USCG) under three different sub-cabinet departments and a different cabinet department altogether during peacetime.
It's really something of a mess.  It's no wonder that we can't get to the bottom of who contracted for $300 hammers and $600 toilet seats.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 20, 2020, 10:33:22 PM

If you're at all familiar w Tommy Thompson, like I am, you find this quote so befitting Thompson.  I can hear him yelling it out loud with his , , 'dems and 'dohs.  Many a time have been in his presence while he was Gov. and he's been doing the same. 

A quintessential Wisconsin ambassador. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 20, 2020, 10:41:21 PM

Quote from: SFBadger96 on November 20, 2020, 07:59:01 PM

Saw this in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel today. This is a direct quote from the president of the University of Wisconsin system (Tommy Thompson, former governor and Secretary of the Health and Human Services, I think, under W. Bush):

"You go to the university to learn, but you also go to the university to grow up. You go there to have fun, you go there to watch football, you go there to drink beer, to have a cup of coffee, to study and learn."

Let's take a moment to thank the system president for plainly stating that one of the reasons to go the University of Wisconsin is to drink beer.

It's just about 5pm here. Time for me to have a cocktail.

On Wisconsin.

I mean, I sure as hell did. I didn't even know I would drink when I committed, but I figured it out soon enough.

I think that's a nice way to look at college, but one that isn't always the best. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 20, 2020, 11:45:18 PM

worked for me at UNL

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SFBadger96 on November 21, 2020, 02:18:34 AM

I met Tommy a couple of times, once at a tailgate in Milwaukee, and once at his birthday party in Madison. He likes his beer as much as the next Badger. He's definitely one of the fellas. But also smart, and a good person (though I rarely agreed with his politics).

So yeah, this was a very Tommy Thompson comment, but I still enjoyed it. :-)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 21, 2020, 03:17:34 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 20, 2020, 02:31:18 PM

I know a lot of guys who are in the USCG. If you think it's easy, go ahead and sign up.

Sigh.
Didn't say it was easy.  
I also doubt it's easy to be a Vandy football player.   


Thanks for misconstruing.  Weird hobby.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 21, 2020, 06:17:42 AM

Quote from: SFBadger96 on November 20, 2020, 07:59:01 PM

Saw this in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel today. This is a direct quote from the president of the University of Wisconsin system (Tommy Thompson, former governor and Secretary of the Health and Human Services, I think, under W. Bush):

"You go to the university to learn, but you also go to the university to grow up. You go there to have fun, you go there to watch football, you go there to drink beer, to have a cup of coffee, to study and learn."

Let's take a moment to thank the system president for plainly stating that one of the reasons to go the University of Wisconsin is to drink beer.

It's just about 5pm here. Time for me to have a cocktail.

On Wisconsin.

Post of the year!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 21, 2020, 07:19:44 AM

In Europe, about 35% of HS grads go to college.  Here the figure is almost double that.

I think some of this is that our HS system is not as rigorous for that top third, and kids go to college to catch up on whatever they failed to learn in HS.

Another thing about college in Europe, you basically take ONLY courses in your major, you don't take English and history and liberal arts if you are a science major.  So, they get a more extensive study in the field of choice undiluted if you will by those make up courses.  They are assumed to have learned a foreign language in HS, and their own language, and history, etc., so they come out of college with a more extensive knowledge in their field of study.

We here have made college an egalitarian "experience" with kids below the mean in academic achievement attending.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 21, 2020, 08:19:24 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 21, 2020, 07:19:44 AM

We here have made college an egalitarian "experience" with kids below the mean in academic achievement attending.

Indoctrination camps. :67:


Sorry... couldn't resist.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 21, 2020, 09:00:51 AM

printing degrees and raking money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 21, 2020, 09:03:35 AM

Pretty much. I'd like to see that come to an end and rely on community colleges much more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 21, 2020, 09:03:42 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 20, 2020, 01:24:44 PM

The Coast Guard is the Vanderbilt of the armed forces, no? Yeah, you're in the group, but just because.

Just how is that supposed to be viewed tinkerbell?Not really a glowing endorsement and 847 called you on it(sigh)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 21, 2020, 09:04:04 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 21, 2020, 07:19:44 AM

In Europe, about 35% of HS grads go to college.  Here the figure is almost double that.

I think some of this is that our HS system is not as rigorous for that top third, and kids go to college to catch up on whatever they failed to learn in HS.

Another thing about college in Europe, you basically take ONLY courses in your major, you don't take English and history and liberal arts if you are a science major.  So, they get a more extensive study in the field of choice undiluted if you will by those make up courses.  They are assumed to have learned a foreign language in HS, and their own language, and history, etc., so they come out of college with a more extensive knowledge in their field of study.

We here have made college an egalitarian "experience" with kids below the mean in academic achievement attending.

In the USA we're using colleges in ways that were never intended.  The classic liberal arts education was created to develop the sons of wealthy men into erudite and well-rounded business moguls and lawyers.  It was never intended to be vocational school for 70% of the population and it serves that purpose extremely poorly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 21, 2020, 09:08:08 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 21, 2020, 09:03:35 AM

Pretty much. I'd like to see that come to an end and rely on community colleges much more.

I certainly agree, but community colleges are in the same business

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 21, 2020, 09:09:25 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 21, 2020, 09:08:08 AM

I certainly agree, but community colleges are in the same business

Not really. They offer vocational and technical degrees that can get you a good job with a degree or certificate. Can't get a good job with an art history degree.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 21, 2020, 09:39:33 AM

oh much better for getting a job and more practical

they still print degrees and rake money

I agree with you, I wish they were getting more kids and less kids were going to universities

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 21, 2020, 09:48:55 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/FuyWVMF.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 21, 2020, 10:26:35 AM

Are you driving those around now?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 21, 2020, 12:41:20 PM

It would be fun to drive one in a field, you can do that in places.

Tanks are interesting to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 21, 2020, 12:46:03 PM

I wish I had one

not quite practical enough for my budget

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 21, 2020, 01:08:14 PM

https://mashable.com/feature/generation-ships/?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3gpsBChORJmkZmdljcXHpu-vs1TXfc6JpPDqJtzsKBOpvUXU6b8WHp-qM

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 22, 2020, 02:29:15 AM

I'd rather fly a helicopter.

I'd really rather fly something like this.

(https://i.imgur.com/28gw0jC.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 22, 2020, 02:34:56 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 21, 2020, 09:09:25 AM

Not really. They offer vocational and technical degrees that can get you a good job with a degree or certificate. Can't get a good job with an art history degree.

This is a field that becomes sort of the peg for a mess of majors, but I'd be kinda curious how many people actually get those.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2020, 07:25:27 AM

I think the term "art history" does, as you say, mean a lot of majors with no direct application.  I never met a person who had one that I knew about.

My daughter majored in French and English and is a web site designer now making good money in C-bus.

Quite a few folks get kind of generic majors and go on to good jobs unrelated to said major.  My niece majors in psych and worked for an insurance company.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2020, 08:29:40 AM

Other worldly.

(https://i.imgur.com/RaHgQev.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 22, 2020, 08:38:53 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 22, 2020, 02:34:56 AM

This is a field that becomes sort of the peg for a mess of majors, but I'd be kinda curious how many people actually get those.

There are 3 in my extended family alone, but they are all trust fund kiddies. One did get a job that paid. She worked in Philly, on the President-elect's campaign. Lots of connections, her immediate family has. One is a volunteer at a local museum. The other one is going for a PhD in Art History at Harvard.

Not all PhD's are equal, of course, but she will someday be referred to as "doctor". 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2020, 08:41:55 AM

I wonder how one does "original research" in art history.  I guess it's possible obviously.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 22, 2020, 09:26:10 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 22, 2020, 07:25:27 AM

I think the term "art history" does, as you say, mean a lot of majors with no direct application.  I never met a person who had one that I knew about.

My daughter majored in French and English and is a web site designer now making good money in C-bus.

Quite a few folks get kind of generic majors and go on to good jobs unrelated to said major.  My niece majors in psych and worked for an insurance company.

similar to folks that either dropped out of college w/o a degree or didn't attend college
as the guy from Wisconsin stated, going to college is more than obtaining a degree.
many kids grow up and learn a lot, learning many things not related to their major or even academics related.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 22, 2020, 09:29:08 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 22, 2020, 08:38:53 AM

Not all PhD's are equal, of course, but she will someday be referred to as "doctor".

(https://i.imgur.com/74HdspJ.png)
Calling Dr Howard,Dr Fine,Dr Howard

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 22, 2020, 10:17:23 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 22, 2020, 08:38:53 AM

There are 3 in my extended family alone, but they are all trust fund kiddies. One did get a job that paid. She worked in Philly, on the President-elect's campaign. Lots of connections, her immediate family has. One is a volunteer at a local museum. The other one is going for a PhD in Art History at Harvard.

Not all PhD's are equal, of course, but she will someday be referred to as "doctor".

That fact is wild to me. I think my dad almost got one, but pivoted to something science-y and ended up nearly an engineer. 

Granted, when he went to college, working part time could pay for room, board and school. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 22, 2020, 10:24:02 AM

When you have $50 Mil in a trust fund, you can do whatever you want.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2020, 10:41:24 AM

I knew a few majoring in music.  I had a guy in the senior level chem lab I was teaching who was a trumpet major.  He said he liked chemistry.  He was a very good student.

Most of those folks were headed to med school at that point.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 22, 2020, 10:41:43 AM

Already annoyed this morning. 

Dog woke me up at 5:10 AM. Which, frankly, is only 20-35 minutes earlier than usual, but still. Hoped I could just take him out to potty and go back to bed, but 5 minutes later he was whining again to get up. 

So I thought, fine... At least this will allow me to try to get some tee times for next Sunday, because you can only book a week out. 

First grabbed my backup time at my local 18 hole executive. Positive was I was able to get a favorable time (8:40) for 4, and it's easy to cancel, so if nothing else I'll be playing. Negative is that it's only a 3600 yard course, is fairly boring, and I've played there every other week for the last 3 outings, so I'm a little tired of it. I wanted to find a full-length course.

I'd heard good things about the San Clemente municipal course. Checking their web site yesterday morning, I realized they don't open the next week's tee times up until 6 AM on the dot. So I refresh at exactly 6 on the dot and... First tee time available is after 1:00 PM. Little chance of finishing 18 this time of year, and it screws up my entire Sunday instead of just taking the morning. I guess the earlier times are only available to San Clemente residents to be booked a week ahead, which is fine as it's a muni course, but it would be nice if they told me that. It looks like they open them up wider 2-3 days prior to the target date, but that doesn't offer much planning.

So option 3 was a reasonable public course in Costa Mesa. I get onto their website, and boom, see a foursome available at 8:58 AM. Perfect! Try to register for an account... Can't register as it says I already have one for my email address--which would have been a decade+ ago, but ok. Go to the "forgot password" thing. Get my password reset, go back, and despite that only about 90 seconds had passed, they hadn't held my tee time and it's already gone, as is anything else before noon. Okay, so that's screwed... I go take the dog for a walk, get back, and see that a 7:41 has opened up, for 1 person. Try to get logged in and reserve it, and the web site waits, and waits, and waits, and it's gone. 

It's hard enough to find an affordable course in Orange County to begin with, but dammit not having decent web sites or transparent tee time policies is annoying af. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 22, 2020, 10:51:29 AM

might want to try a phone call to the clubhouse

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 22, 2020, 01:18:38 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 22, 2020, 08:29:40 AM

Other worldly.

(https://i.imgur.com/RaHgQev.png)

I wonder what messages astronauts have written in the sand, knowing it just remains there, permanently.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 22, 2020, 01:18:52 PM

CA has as many people as TX and GA combined.  That's nuts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2020, 01:51:00 PM

• California (Population: 39,747,267)
• Texas (Population: 29,087,070)
• Florida (Population: 21,646,155)
• New York (Population: 19,491,339)
• Pennsylvania (Population: 12,813,969)
• Illinois (Population: 12,700,381)
• Ohio (Population: 11,718,568)

I had not realized NY had dropped to fourth.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 22, 2020, 02:23:38 PM

A decade of near-zero growth vs 14% growth.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2020, 02:30:13 PM

When referring to naval guns, the term "caliber" refers to the length of the barrel relative to the diameter of the breech.  That same is true for tank guns as well.

For example, the USS North Carolina had 16" main guns in 45 calibers, while the Iowa class had 16" main guns in 50 calibers.

The latter developed more muzzle velocity.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 22, 2020, 02:52:16 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 22, 2020, 10:24:02 AM

When you have $50 Mil in a trust fund, you can do whatever you want.

If I did, I sure as hell would get into something more interesting. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 22, 2020, 05:03:50 PM

I think a person's muzzle velocity should be kept privately in the home.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 22, 2020, 05:15:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 22, 2020, 01:51:00 PM

• California (Population: 39,747,267)
• Texas (Population: 29,087,070)
• Florida (Population: 21,646,155)
• New York (Population: 19,491,339)
• Pennsylvania (Population: 12,813,969)
• Illinois (Population: 12,700,381)
• Ohio (Population: 11,718,568)

I had not realized NY had dropped to fourth. 

they are dropping even further bc of the China Virus. Nearly 500,000 people moved out of NYC alone in the 6 months after China Virus started. Majority of them came to Florida.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2020, 05:55:57 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/qdYZAqL.jpg)

Guess where this was?  That was four years ago already.

(https://i.imgur.com/lRFB9L6.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2020, 06:42:50 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/VqeBhCi.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 22, 2020, 06:48:56 PM

Prophetic

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 23, 2020, 08:41:37 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 22, 2020, 01:51:00 PM

• California (Population: 39,747,267)
• Texas (Population: 29,087,070)
• Florida (Population: 21,646,155)
• New York (Population: 19,491,339)
• Pennsylvania (Population: 12,813,969)
• Illinois (Population: 12,700,381)
• Ohio (Population: 11,718,568)

I had not realized NY had dropped to fourth. 

That's because they are all coming down here. Illinois is shrinking too. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 23, 2020, 08:45:35 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 22, 2020, 05:55:57 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/qdYZAqL.jpg)

Guess where this was?  That was four years ago already.

(https://i.imgur.com/lRFB9L6.jpg)

I know that joint.  I was supposed to spend the weekend there about a month ago.  Stoopid coronas.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 23, 2020, 09:10:40 AM

That was a lot of fun for me, not as much as baseball, but pretty close for one day and not very expensive.

They used to have a two day even in Vegas I was pondering with more teaching.  The racing capabilities of many four door sedans these days is astonishing to me, and I'm sure this applies to the BMWs and Mercedes et al. in this class.

I'm better at baseball than driving fast.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 23, 2020, 09:34:51 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 23, 2020, 09:10:40 AM

That was a lot of fun for me, not as much as baseball, but pretty close for one day and not very expensive.

They used to have a two day even in Vegas I was pondering with more teaching.  The racing capabilities of many four door sedans these days is astonishing to me, and I'm sure this applies to the BMWs and Mercedes et al. in this class.

I'm better at baseball than driving fast.

Where is that?  
When I purchased my V series Cadillac I got to race it at Monticello and that was a great experience. When I purchased one of my SRT vehicles I got to race it at Chicagoan Speedway both on the oval and threw a cross country track.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 23, 2020, 09:43:59 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 23, 2020, 08:45:35 AM

I know that joint.  I was supposed to spend the weekend there about a month ago.  Stoopid coronas.

can't be Texas, folks are wearing jackets

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 23, 2020, 10:23:50 AM

The photos are at COTA.  The LV location is out of town a bit, I'm told, didn't check it out closely, was two days.

The ATS-V was, I thought, a more rational car, the CTS-V had almost too much power to be driven on city streets in my view, if that is possible to have.  It was crazy.

We had at the time a CTS with a four banger.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 23, 2020, 11:45:46 AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-54994814?fbclid=IwAR1FNRA9uxIzDBl6PWAWm3iuE69RPIAmmiBrJmrxQC63owLG_v7f2OoHw3o

Some good news about the planet's largest creature.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 23, 2020, 11:56:48 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 23, 2020, 09:43:59 AM

can't be Texas, folks are wearing jackets

Yup, like Cincy said, that's the Circuit of the Americas on the outskirts of ATX.  As I recall he was here sometime in winter or early spring, hence the jackets.

The Formula 1 United States Grand Prix was supposed to be October 23-25, but the coronas screwed that one up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 23, 2020, 12:00:26 PM

don't blame them for not allowing yankees

those northerners would have been in shorts and shirt sleeves

Like me when I'm golfing in the winter down there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 23, 2020, 12:01:52 PM

Yup I wear a hoodie or jacket if it dips below 70.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 23, 2020, 12:02:36 PM

They had us drive it first in sections, like a sixth of the track at a time.  The back straight I hit around 140 mph before braking, hard, into a slower corner.  We also did skid pad and a slalom course.  

They change the brake pads and tires after each single day events.  It was hard for me to really get down on the brakes because my usual driving I try and be smooth, racing is more about controlled desperation at the edge.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 23, 2020, 12:06:51 PM

The tennis court area has a nice practice wall.  I've been throwing some into it of late.  It's nice to be able to throw without pain, still some deep pain in the joint.  I'm taking it easy with a rubber ball. It was coolish today, I wore a light jacket.

(https://i.imgur.com/nKYuEII.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 23, 2020, 12:09:14 PM

Started watching this last night, not bad, about history of electricity.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x63y0pf

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 23, 2020, 12:11:02 PM

I wore a light jacket today.  18 degrees when I left the house.

scraped some frost of the windshield before driving to work

high of 36 expected - rain over night, maybe 3/4".  We need moisture.  I much prefer rain to snow.

no need to push rain off the driveway 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 23, 2020, 12:57:31 PM

In other news........... Texas BBQ in the San Fran Bay area!!!

No, there's no indoor dining yet, but several picnic tables outside have prime views of three more smokers, all of them working slowly but surely to produce Horn's signature style of "West Coast Barbecue" with influence from Central Texas, the Black South, and his own California roots.

Anyone who knows their 'cue knows that the key to the most tender meat is time—hours upon hours of time. At Horn, the smoker fires up in the wee hours of day, and the brisket cooks for a solid 18 hours to reach melt-in-your-mouth perfection. Other specialties include hot links, beef ribs, pulled pork, spareribs, and even turkey (you can order a whole smoked bird for Thanksgiving takeout). Everything comes by the pound or in sandwich form. For the sides, Horn shares his Southern favorites: corn bread, potato salad, coleslaw, collard greens, and his grandma's signature potatoes. Nina Horn, Matt's wife, takes care of dessert in the form of sweet rum cake and banana pudding.

It all comes together for a neighborhood gem we can really sink our teeth into.

"It's been surreal to be open and to see all of the love and support for what we do," says Horn. "People have been extremely supportive, and we do not take that for granted."

// Horn Barbecue is open 11am till sold out Friday through Sunday; 2534 Mandela Pkwy. (Oakland),


https://www.7x7.com/first-taste-horn-barbecue-oakland-2648855795/particle-9 (https://www.7x7.com/first-taste-horn-barbecue-oakland-2648855795/particle-9)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 23, 2020, 01:51:47 PM

Looks legit, maybe some of our bay area posters can check it out and report back.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 23, 2020, 02:02:20 PM

now you got me hungry for some BBQ

door dash here I come

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 23, 2020, 02:05:47 PM

This is where I get my BBQ fix

They do a decent job

https://www.springcreekbarbeque.com/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 23, 2020, 02:06:03 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 23, 2020, 12:01:52 PM

Yup I wear a hoodie or jacket if it dips below 70.

That's about the point we begin to sweat

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 23, 2020, 02:44:20 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 23, 2020, 02:05:47 PM

This is where I get my BBQ fix

They do a decent job

https://www.springcreekbarbeque.com/

can't be any good.  Too many locations, like a damned chain.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 23, 2020, 03:20:06 PM

While I'm against chains in general, I'm open to one being pretty good.  City BBQ is decent I think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 23, 2020, 03:20:15 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 23, 2020, 02:44:20 PM

can't be any good.  Too many locations, like a damned chain.

Its terrible better not move to Texas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 23, 2020, 03:20:59 PM

We just picked up Thanksgiving dinner, it's duck confit, not casoulet, with some kind of ravioli and haricot vert.

Which is a fancy word for green beans.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 23, 2020, 03:25:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 23, 2020, 03:20:59 PM

We just picked up Thanksgiving dinner, it's duck confit, not casoulet, with some kind of ravioli and haricot vert.

Which is a fancy word for green beans.

Yeah, but they cost more. Because they're French, or something. :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 23, 2020, 03:28:19 PM

Good BBQ brisket is no secret process

It just has to be done right

The rub used is very important

The pit needs to be wood burning

The wood should be Hickory although some places use Pecan and Mesquite

The art here is the temp of the fire and slow cooking until a masterpiece has been created

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 23, 2020, 03:33:07 PM

Bonedaddy's is a good enough chain BBQ place for me when I'm in Texas.

nice scenery and cold beer

I don't usually order the brisket there.  My brother does dern fine brisket.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 23, 2020, 03:38:10 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 23, 2020, 03:20:15 PM

Its terrible better not move to Texas

I wouldn't dream of moving to Texas!

Now... Austin, maybe... :72:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 23, 2020, 03:50:34 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 23, 2020, 03:25:13 PM

Yeah, but they cost more. Because they're French, or something. :57:

Yes indeed. Much like polenta is the same thing as grits, except it costs more....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 23, 2020, 03:56:06 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 23, 2020, 03:50:34 PM

Yes indeed. Much like polenta is the same thing as grits, except it costs more....

I've lived in the South or around the edges of it for most of my life.  I like a most southern eats and drinks.
But I don't like grits.
For me, a nickel spent on grits is a nickel wasted.  As would be a dime spent on polenta.
I don't like fried okra, or black-eyed peas, or collard greens either.  That stuff is to feed to pigs, IMO.
If pigs would even eat it, that is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 23, 2020, 03:56:57 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 23, 2020, 03:28:19 PM

Good BBQ brisket is no secret process

It just has to be done right

The rub used is very important

The pit needs to be wood burning

The wood should be Hickory although some places use Pecan and Mesquite

The art here is the temp of the fire and slow cooking until a masterpiece has been created

Rub is important in that it should be extremely simple.  Salt and pepper are all that's needed.  Here in Central Texico, that's referred to as "Dalmatian."

The primary wood for Centex BBQ is post oak.

Hickory/pecan (which are basically used interchangeably) works well for fowl, and for pork.

I never use mesquite for BBQ, it burns too hot and too fast, and its flavor is too intense for a long smoke.  It works great for direct grilling though.  The one exception to that, is when my boy scout troop was camping in Mexico for a week, on the grounds of a massive hacienda belonging to a big Boy Scouts of Mexico benefactor, alongside a local Mexican troop.  We spent a couple hours digging out two trenches, one where we burned down mesquite logs to coals, and one where we shoveled those coals under a couple of spits where we roasted several whole goat kids.  That BBQ'd cabrito is possibly the best food I've ever eaten in my life.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 23, 2020, 03:57:37 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 23, 2020, 03:38:10 PM

I wouldn't dream of moving to Texas!

Now... Austin, maybe... :72:

Bite your tongue!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 23, 2020, 04:25:05 PM

Fried okra is my favorite vegetable by far.

And of course I adore grits, and black eyed peas, and greens of whatever ilk.

Eating those things is why I grew up tall and handsome.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SFBadger96 on November 23, 2020, 04:25:09 PM

Oakland has a lot of great food from other places, but it's not super convenient to me. Once I'm back to moving around a little for work, I'll find an excuse to have lunch over there...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 23, 2020, 04:27:48 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 23, 2020, 04:25:05 PM

Fried okra is my favorite vegetable by far.

And of course I adore grits, and black eyed peas, and greens of whatever ilk.

Eating those things is why I grew up tall and handsome.

:86:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 23, 2020, 04:30:42 PM

so, there is a decent reason to eat those things

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 23, 2020, 04:31:44 PM

I like okra, both fried and stewed.  I like greens of every kind.  I like grits.  And I like polenta when I'm trying to impress fancy people like badgerfan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 23, 2020, 04:35:19 PM

Even the wife likes grits and fried okra.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 23, 2020, 04:52:01 PM

grits make a good bed to put shrimp or Grillades or something on top of

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 23, 2020, 04:59:35 PM

I dislike ruining grits with shrimp.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 23, 2020, 05:05:32 PM

Grits alone are good.  Grits with scrimps are good.

My mom makes a pretty amazing sausage cheese grit casserole that's a staple at most of our holiday meals.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 23, 2020, 06:25:32 PM

I make a grits with bacon and egg and cheese thing that should be similar.  I'm not really a fan of shrimp and grits.  For one thing, they charge through the nose for it around here as if it's haute cuisine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 23, 2020, 06:28:55 PM

Grits, very buttered with bacon crumbles.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 23, 2020, 06:34:32 PM

Okra= ka-ka I could fry up old shoe laces and there'd be paying customers.Throw okra in a pot and it just tastes like the other ingrediants,but it's really kinda slimy - try it with Escargots or slug on the half shell

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 23, 2020, 11:45:09 PM

Never had proper okra obviously ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 23, 2020, 11:55:39 PM

Fried,steamed,sauteed - fried perhaps because it's crunchy and tastes like the breading.Okra pretty much sux right up there with kale.Sure I'll eat it because I'm spartan in my diet.You can sautee kale with olive oil and garlic with spices.but you're really covering it with the other ingredients

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 24, 2020, 01:23:21 AM

What you just described is the same with a grit, except that a grit has no taste at all.  It tastes like what you put on it.  Salt and pepper and butter?  It tastes like salt and pepper and butter.

I find pickled okra OK.  Not great, but OK.

Fried okra?  What a way to ruin perfectly good batter!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2020, 06:45:12 AM

You guys are talking about two foods with little to no value.

Why would I ruin bacon and cheese by putting into a runny corn meal?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2020, 07:21:22 AM

So, I get this flyer in the mail for an AC inspection and such.

Guy comes out, pokes around and a bit later the wife comes into my office to get me. I'm thinking, oh shit...

And yep. The air handler is trashed. I wondered why it was laboring. Now I know. Full of growth and icky things.

So, new air handler, new AC unit, full on duct cleaning/sanitizing/sealing, R30 insulation in the attic.

It was cheaper to go new rather than replace parts. Plus, this comes with a 10 year warranty on parts and labor. It's a Champion system.

Another expense I did not expect right now. Damn.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 24, 2020, 07:24:55 AM

Quote from: CWSooner on November 24, 2020, 01:23:21 AM

What you just described is the same with a grit, except that a grit has no taste at all.  It tastes like what you put on it.  Salt and pepper and butter?  It tastes like salt and pepper and butter.

I find pickled okra OK.  Not great, but OK.

Fried okra?  What a way to ruin perfectly good batter!

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2020, 06:45:12 AM

You guys are talking about two foods with little to no value.

Why would I ruin bacon and cheese by putting into a runny corn meal?

Hear,Hear

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2020, 07:27:42 AM

Yeah, I replaced one of our HVACs here a year back.  The good news is my electricity bills went down a lot.  The old unit was apparently garbage and laboring despite being five years old.  I got a quote first from Costco and the guy said $7400, as if that was a deal.  I got an independent guy replace it with a Bosch for $4700.

Maybe he found it fallen off a truck or something.

My October electricity bill was $68, I can live with that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 24, 2020, 07:40:29 AM

I know the newer units at least with the 15 seer rating or above use DC motors,with converters on them.Evidently DC motors draw less current.94 being in the Nether regions and a EE could prolly elaborate

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2020, 07:53:32 AM

Yeah, I replaced our AC in Cincy with an 18 SEER unit that had a variable speed DC blower on it.

I don't know much about this new Bosch unit, it's running right now, fan speed seems constant to me.  It pulls heat out of water.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2020, 07:58:02 AM

22 SEER for our new one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 24, 2020, 08:04:30 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 24, 2020, 07:53:32 AM

Yeah, I replaced our AC in Cincy with an 18 SEER unit that had a variable speed DC blower on it. It pulls heat out of water.

Oh you have a heat pump,bitch to clean both coils - that I do every season

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 24, 2020, 08:07:22 AM

We have two AC units for this house.  I'm dreading the day I need to replace them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 24, 2020, 08:20:46 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 24, 2020, 07:53:32 AM

I don't know much about this new Bosch unit

I had a Bosch Tankless Water Heater which I loved  that A friend and I installed in 2006.Problem being the newer units have so many more components.That when one of those gadgets goes south after the 10 yr warranty is up it will cost as much to replace as tank.So even the savings on natural gas gets bested by price gouging for parts :banghead:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2020, 08:31:50 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 24, 2020, 08:04:30 AM

Oh you have a heat pump,bitch to clean both coils - that I do every season

The coils are not accessible.  My tech said the building at one time didn't service the water supply system and it clogged up a lot of coils requiring replacement.  I'm told it's scheduled now.  Somebody cleans out the main water supply system and heat exchanger/evaporator on the roof, or so I'm told.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2020, 08:43:28 AM

The new HVAC equipment will be installed today. Looking forward to seeing what that new stuff looks like, and also looking forward to energy savings.

Outside, we have power washing to prep for house painting. Then all fresh mulch will go down.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 24, 2020, 08:45:38 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 24, 2020, 08:31:50 AM

The coils are not accessible.  My tech said the building at one time didn't service the water supply system and it clogged up a lot of coils requiring replacement.  I'm told it's scheduled now.  Somebody cleans out the main water supply system and heat exchanger/evaporator on the roof, or so I'm told.

If you have a HOA should look into that - maintenance is important.Amazing how many people never replace/clean filters.Or pull off the back panel on the fridge and vacuum that out.Though those coils are much easier to clean than the old models

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2020, 08:49:54 AM

We have a bldg "engineer" now, and I asked him if the building water evap system was cleaned out and he told me "It's on a schedule".  We do have an HOA, my monthly fees are rather steep because it's based on unit square footage.  But, it includes cable and internet and hot and cold water.  SO, it's about what I was paying for the house if you count the cost of painting it.

The upstairs unit is a Crane and my tech guy checked it out and said it was good to go.

Our fridge has the heat exchanger underneath, not in the back.  Had to replace that also.  If you buy an older house or condo, figure on replacing most things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 24, 2020, 08:53:02 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2020, 08:43:28 AM

Outside, we have power washing to prep for house painting. Then all fresh mulch will go down.

Just say no to mulch volcanoes!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2020, 08:54:10 AM

These guys are really good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 24, 2020, 08:59:37 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 24, 2020, 08:49:54 AM

Our fridge has the heat exchanger underneath, not in the back.  Had to replace that also.  If you buy an older house or condo, figure on replacing most things.

I have an older house and I have no problem getting condensing or evap coils .There are specially designed stiff brushes that get under the front to the evap coil long/thin with short,stout bristles.or the back panel for condensing coil.You can use compressed air also - though that's dustyThere a videos on YT

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2020, 09:00:29 AM

I used to spend all spring mulching and planting and digging and mowing and trimming ....  not missing it at all.

I built these stone walls to level out the yard in places, we had huge pieces of flat limestone I'd run into digging to plant a tree.  I started digging just to find more stones.  Weird hobby.  That ended up being a nice backyard bordering on green space, I have a notion the new owner doesn't keep it up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 24, 2020, 09:01:58 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2020, 08:54:10 AM

These guys are really good.

Of course it's like when mom made a sandwich for you.It's usually better

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2020, 09:04:56 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 24, 2020, 08:59:37 AM

I have an older house and I have no problem getting condensing or evap coils .There are specially designed stiff brushes that get under the front to the evap coil long/thin with short,stout bristles.or the back panel for condensing coil.You can use compressed air also - though that's dustyThere a videos on YT

This is a water source heat exchanger, so the coils carry water, and the unit is completely contained, I can see it in the back.  This says I can clean the inside of the coils with acid, which I won't do.  


https://www.behler-young.com/tech-tips/geothermal-tips/acid-cleaning-of-water-coil-water-source-heat-pumps

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 24, 2020, 09:10:05 AM

Better talk to your tech about that,you could if you have drip pan & a drain.Not real familiar with that.Suppose it would be like the coils on the tankless heater that i used a vinegar solution that i circulated inside a 10 gallon tote with a pump

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2020, 09:20:46 AM

There is no pan, no drain, solid concrete floors.

It's fed by pretty heavy braided flexible pipes, and the connections are so tight and rusted the tech couldn't get them off and left them for fear removal might crack the feeder pipes.

So, I could only get the hoses off at the unit, which doesn't work for this process.  I won't be doing it.  I might text him about it.

It's a neat set up really, the older condos here have units on the roof that heat exchange with air which isn't efficient.

There are newer towers near us that have some rather massive evaporators on the ground.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 24, 2020, 09:26:39 AM

Ya let a tech do it.Those connections even if you could get them off cleanly you could have the same  problem with the shut off  valves to isolate the unit.Rust,scale,sediment are a bitch.When you get new plumbing/ HVAC it's good to work the valves so they stay usable with time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 24, 2020, 09:39:13 AM

If I want to eat brick mortar, I'll eat brick mortar instead of grits.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 24, 2020, 09:41:51 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2020, 07:21:22 AM

So, I get this flyer in the mail for an AC inspection and such.

Guy comes out, pokes around and a bit later the wife comes into my office to get me. I'm thinking, oh shit...

And yep. The air handler is trashed. I wondered why it was laboring. Now I know. Full of growth and icky things.

So, new air handler, new AC unit, full on duct cleaning/sanitizing/sealing, R30 insulation in the attic.

It was cheaper to go new rather than replace parts. Plus, this comes with a 10 year warranty on parts and labor. It's a Champion system.

Another expense I did not expect right now. Damn.

I feel you on that one. I had to replace our entire HVAC system a week after my wedding. After paying for the lion's share of that, what's an HVAC system?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2020, 09:45:44 AM

Grits of course were a way to preserve corn prior to refrigeration, which is most of our history.

I'm watching an Amazon show about the history of electricity, it's pretty decent.  We rarely give a thought to how important, nay essential, various technologies are in our lives.  Without electricity, we're in the steam age again.  What tech do we have that isn't dependent on it?  Maybe drugs?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 24, 2020, 09:51:34 AM

I've eaten brick mortar.  Tastes nothing like grits.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 24, 2020, 09:56:42 AM

house is about 40 years old, I've been there 30 years.

Replaced my HVAC system about 5 years ago.

Hopefully, this one lasts 30 years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 24, 2020, 09:57:27 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 24, 2020, 09:51:34 AM

I've eaten brick mortar.  Tastes nothing like grits.

goofy Longhorns

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2020, 09:59:05 AM

Heck, I eat snails.  The only major food I dislike is liver, just really dislike it.

Any liver.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 24, 2020, 10:00:56 AM

liver is better than brains or Lutefisk

but, it's not my favorite, and I love onions

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2020, 10:02:34 AM

I've had brains, cow brains, and they are tasty, but I don't like the imagery.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 24, 2020, 10:05:26 AM

yup, I'd rather eat liver or tripe than brains

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2020, 10:12:45 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 24, 2020, 09:51:34 AM

I've eaten brick mortar.  Tastes nothing like grits.

But it has taste?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 24, 2020, 10:22:09 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 24, 2020, 10:02:34 AM

I've had brains, cow brains, and they are tasty, but I don't like the imagery.

I was watching bizarre foods and Zimmern the host was going down the Mississippi and hitting all the towns from Minny to the gulf(it could have been Fieri on D,D &D).I guess they still eat livestock brains but locals call it something else to get around regulations.like you I'm sure I'd like it if i could get past what it really is

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 24, 2020, 10:25:38 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 24, 2020, 10:05:26 AM

yup, I'd rather eat liver or tripe than brains

Liver Eatin'Johnson agrees the Jeremiah Johnson movie was based on.Supposedly he ate the livers of the indians who killed his wife

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 24, 2020, 10:34:53 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2020, 10:12:45 AM

But it has taste?

Not really.  Grits do though.  Taste like corn.  Imagine that!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 24, 2020, 10:37:05 AM

I'll eat tripas or sesos or lengua.  Snails too.

I'm not a huge fan of liver on a plate, but I love goose liver or duck liver pate'.  And I'm always down for fried chicken livers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2020, 10:37:34 AM

Hmm. Maybe having Covid 3 times killed my taste about 15 years ago, when I tried the slop. Tasted like nothing, without the butter, salt, pepper, cheese, etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 24, 2020, 10:39:32 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2020, 10:37:34 AM

Hmm. Maybe having Covid 3 times killed my taste about 15 years ago, when I tried the slop. Tasted like nothing, without the butter, salt, pepper, cheese, etc.

Tastes like polenta because they're the same thing.  Both taste like ground corn.  You might or might not like the flavor of ground corn, or you might not find it to be a strong flavor, but there you have it.  That's what ground corn tastes like.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 24, 2020, 10:42:14 AM

I am open to eating all food. I won't order veal brains again.   I'm cool w offal and sweatbreads.  Didn't like the veal brain.  

It now joins tuna salad, tuna steak and butterfingers on my no go menu.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 24, 2020, 10:44:42 AM

I'm from southern Ohio so we took our polenta fried

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2020, 10:58:55 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 24, 2020, 10:22:09 AM

I was watching bizarre foods and Zimmern the host was going down the Mississippi and hitting all the towns from Minny to the gulf(it could have been Fieri on D,D &D).I guess they still eat livestock brains but locals call it something else to get around regulations.like you I'm sure I'd like it if i could get past what it really is

Sweetbreads is the common name for it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 24, 2020, 11:06:03 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 24, 2020, 10:44:42 AM

I'm from southern Ohio so we took our polenta fried

we call that corn meal mush around here
(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdata%3Aimage%2Fjpeg%3Bbase64%2C%2F9j%2F4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD%2F2wCEAAkGBxMTEhUTExIVFhUWFxcVFRUXFxYXFxgYFRUWFhYVFxgYHSggGB0lGxYVITEhJSkrLi4uFx8zODMsNygtLisBCgoKDg0OGhAQGy0lICYtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLf%2FAABEIAOEA4QMBEQACEQEDEQH%2FxAAcAAABBQEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAADAAECBAUGBwj%2FxABHEAABAwIDBQUEBwQIBQUAAAABAAIRAyEEEjEFBkFRYRMicYGRBzKhsRQjQlLB0fAzQ3LhFSRic4KSk7IWY6LC4jRTVJTS%2F8QAGgEAAwEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBv%2FEADwRAAICAQMCAwYDBQcEAwAAAAABAhEDBBIhMUETUWEFInGRscEUgaEjMtHh8CQzQmJykvEVJTWyNHPC%2F9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwB6VPS0Lyz0jQo4IlIVhjs8co8EWA%2F0HpKdgM3BeSBDDDR1SGR%2Bhsdq2OqLCyvW2aBdpRY0ynUpEWIQUJmqYh3YedRZIYx2SwiS30RuaCkyljNkR7t%2BiqM%2FMHEpDDub7w9VbafQnlDmkCjoFWFp0iND5KbTCqJtYDq1MVBBhGmwPkUWKhf0SeXmFSkKgLsEQfzsnYhfRjyKQwjMPzEosZM0BpceCdBY9PDOjUOHVAivVwrgfdI8LqkyGiVIOmAZQLkd1YtMOHok0mUnRWxLp%2FmlQ7AZP1KQ7OywTZWLKNnC0wkSy6KITAztobQo0Pfqsb0LhPomoN9EFruYOK33wYtmcerWmPVaLT5PInxI%2BZRO%2FGF5v82%2FzT%2FDzDxIhv8AjHBH95CTwz8h74%2BYQbxYQiRXb52UPHLyKUkXqG0KDhaqx09QpcZIq0WBh6btI8lNsYnbPOoTsLHbhXcr8xZSFk24Mi5E%2BIugdjYnCscILb%2BCVjRXdsgRdlktzHwVauxxwJCamwoA%2FZrhwnwVb0FADQI4J7goPSe5vFG4HAt0cQ11ngJ2Q4lyng6bvddCe4mmOdmniARzCLFZF2z2DUEeKLYWAdswHRUpsAL8I4KlJCor1aBGoVcMRUqMaOCAKOIc0cEchwUs7eQ%2BKfI6Oh2ZXqiA4taFg0WHx%2B%2BFGgcs9o77rb%2Bp0C0hglIylkijltqb44mvZruyZyZ73m7X0XZj00V1MJZX2KdHAse0kmXx7xMn4rvWKNcHO5uzmcXRNxyXM0WmUQ0qBhITASQyTXEaEjzRQWW6G1azPdquHmocIvqi1kku5qYTfPFs%2FeT4qHggylmkbWE9pdcEZqbT1Wb0y7Mrxl3Rt4X2o0j%2B0pEeH8pWb00i1liadPfrCPsH5TyMQsngmuxayRfc08PtvDVB3KzWnqYHxUPHJF2X2Fp4tf8AwkT6KdoWE%2BjtPT4KKHuZRxmE%2FUSmikzMq0SPsen5KkMVPDNOpLfEKkmxNk6GGHBwPmjkGWaZqNsD6lCdktFuhtIaPb5p2S4F1gpv0MfBUmQ0QdhCdCD4oEV62Gj3meifQLMbGYNrpgwVW5jo5%2FaGCe0aSqUkFGP2TvulXuQqMTG7frVhlnIz7rePieK3hhiuTnnlbKtJq6EjIstKd0AanjS3RWslCcSmakkk8VnuHQPscxhouVEpJFRi2Cr4Ko33mEeShZIvuU8cl2AGmeSdoW1kSwp2KhoQAoQAkAJAhJgSY8jQkeFkqsdliltCq24qOB8UnCL7FKcl3NClvTi2iO2cfEkrPwYPsUs0jTwntAxbIu13PMJlQ9LBleOzVp%2B0sn9ph2nqCQs3pPJlrUIuUvaDQd71N49CFL00ilniW8PvBgKn7zsz1BCl4ZotZYvuX27QpSMmIY8dHCVHhvyKU0EGPBNktjHuQR9ccHQUkhk8NjarTYz4q9pLSZo0drffEdRdLklx8hsRWpvkyErFTMDH0mmQ15B5Jpjoyfo7%2Fv8AwVWFHm9Mr00eeWGPRYwmdJyHQxKVjBkoEWNm4vJVa48CCs8kd0aNMcqZ6i7auFrUxZma0yvOcJRO1SszMZsrDPJDY8UKckOk%2Bpk1N2mTAK08aRDxxIv3MnRya1LF4MSvW3Hq8Lq1qvQl4EZ2I3Srt0YStFqYkPTPsZtbY1ZutN3otFmg%2B5m8El2KrsO4atPorU0Q4NAy08lVk0NCBDQgBQgB4TASAFKAJB5QAWljHt0c4eBIS2oe5l2lvBiG%2FvXHxv8ANTsj5FLJIu0N767dS0%2BI%2FJT4MS1mkX6W%2FDvtMHkVLwLsUs%2FoX2b60SLhzT4T8lm8DLWaIOpt%2Bk7SqPA2PxUPDJdi1ki%2B5X%2FpUf8AuD%2FN%2FNLw35D3R8zjWFdxwBmlIYQOQMlKQDFMCBCACU6pHFS4lKTQQY54%2B0VHhorxGGZtWoPtFJ4kUsrL%2BH3kqt4rN4EWsxqYbfWqLGFD05SymvhN92%2Faas3gaL8RGph958M%2F3mhQ8UkUpeoR%2BIwNTVrfQKdskVZVrbCwT9ICrfNdxNJ9ijiNzcMfdd8VSzTRLxwfYxMZucB7rlqtS%2B5DwRfQyMTu09ul1rHUJmb0%2FkZ9XZb26harKmZvDJAHYcjgrUkZuLRDs07JobImBEsTAbIkBE00AQc1AAyUAQL0CI50AW2FSUHYUDCBICYQAkAFw%2BFfUMMaXEXgCbKJ5IwVydFRhKXRCqYV7feY4eLSELJF9GhuEl1QB7Y1EeNla5JZFMQkgHlFDsWYpUFskKpRtHuCtxbhxU7EUsjDM2pUGjipeNMpZWHbtyqPtFT4MR%2BKzrt2dj4zFBtQnJSJ1dOZwH3Ry6lebqtXhw3Fcs6IW%2BWdRidyXuuyvFtHCR66rhxe0u0olto5za%2B7eLpOg0w9v3wQBpqZNl349Xia54fkJJy4Rzm3dnVKOU1GZQ73SCCPCRxXVgzwy3sfQzywcephuautM5qBlqqxURLVVk0NlTsVESE7FRBzE7FQF9NICu9iAB5EAWWFSMOxAwoKAJgpAGw2HfUcGU2lznWa0akqZSUVcnwNJvoe17obrU6FME04c4NJze9MXBXzGqy5M0%2FefHY7U1FVE6N2BZ90egXHKLXQe9g62x6TvepsP%2BEK4Rn1UqDec9tLcPC1ZmkGk%2FaZ3T5RZa49fqcTq7XqDjCXVHO7S9mzGsim8yLjNEm2k8l2Q9rZFL30CwY5Kjjdobs1m1MjWGcuaD8geK9PFr8c422Rl0jXMeUYRC7jjGQAkAaOxNi1cVUDKTTr3nkHK0cyfwWGo1OPBHdN%2Fl3ZcMbm%2BD1ndb2f4fDgPqgVqoMhzgcovaGG3mV8%2FqPaeTMqhwjpjijE7YDgBC86RZIBOKoGCxeDZVaWPaHNIgg6Facun5DjNxdoHU2TSc0NfTY5oiGuaHARpEohGUHuTBzcupym8Hs6wtbM6kDRqEWyQGTe5Z14rtxe08mPh8r1%2FiQ4Jnj%2B1cFUw1V1Gq2Ht9CDo5p4gr6LFkjlgpx6M5ZJxdMqh0rSibEgLIliYiBYmAJ4QIrvQIGgArEhh2IAKEDJhID0X2T7JaXOxLgZaSxmmW4GY9SNF43tXU7Kx%2Fmzoww4s9WY7kvBnkt8G1Bmnoqi76iaIvCJLyBEJHVK0MobRezKS4kQY4%2Fgp6%2FE1xp3wYe0cO3KXsM%2Bsg8wrxypm9t8M8U2kC2rUaTJD3SdJvMr7HDLdBP0PIyR2zaK2daEGzsHd6rijDMrb6unSbmy5NTrMeBe8dGPTTnHd0R7PsHY7MJRZTacxA1iJPMwvlNTnefI5s64qlRuUp8FnFS6Il0HAXQoUuSLBGsToC30WUslfuotRJtfKW7cKqCEHnf8FqoSffkm0CIlR4S7Ds4%2FeTdmhin5qjZcO6HAkEdLLo0%2BsyYFUXwauEZpbkZOG3XoUjAYAQS4HVwEcHaldT12TJ%2B8yo4oR5ijzzeXBmlXMlpD%2B%2B3LoASQBoL2XuaTLHJjVduDz9RBwnyZUrqMBEoAG8oArVECBIAIxIYdiAChAyQSA9X9k1J7sO60NFRwzT7xgEwOGq%2Be9qY92ZO%2Bx2YppQo9HZQgLznhih7mxOF5v4CUtq6jsdvgkkuoh3NlNxsLAVMO2%2FXXrCHFFKTMra%2BBzU3BhLSWkAjgY1upjUWmaRm75PnrFVXue41CM8kOIsJFj8l9jjUVFKPQ8%2FI25Ns29i7nYzFND6VIZCSMz3BotqYN48lhm1uHE6k%2BfQqOKTPat3tlU8NRZSAbma1oe8C7nAAOd5lfJ587zZXLzfyO7muTXpBp8QnjjBkSbRMvbp8FbnC9oqfUx9q7a7NwYwdXE8un65Kn0906cOn3q2ZdXHvqkNDsue5M2jWB6LJcS5OjwowV10NbYMZntb0Jkz3rDTwgrfaptI5M9pJs22yJtqtoxlBt11OVtMzdr1C2CDraPyXNqYcqVm2GnwyrTcHA%2FHmuZmvQo4qm9skQeUj5JwnXBqnFnn2%2BezzUa1zGEva4iGi2UiT8V7vs3Uxi3GTpP6mGrxOaTj2OILY1XvJ2eW%2BCJTEDegCvUQIEgAjEhh2IAM0IGXdlbNqYio2lSbLnacgOLieACyy5Y4ouUnwVGLk6R75upsKnhKLaTCT9pxJmXEDMRyFtF8xmzvNk3M6apUjbhQwE4KXEaISoikmMC95m5ACht2WkqGdW1A10RKdIFEr1MO%2BoBo0TcakjoZt8Ut9rgriJhVNyKNPtX0AG1qgMVag7TK6XHO0HQ97hyC63q8jUYyfurt0v0FBxUtzRf3f2diKNPJVqipFmviHEf2uawzS3SuCpGmScJcpGx2M6rLwr6mW6icAK6UFwLqCqGVlJuXLKXBhbZ2cXkcOvEjknDJ4fU68ORRIjBANLY1EDhHnwCmM7lbG8lmts5opMFr6mNT%2BfBdUZqPLOTJc2Fx21QxthLjoPmryat1S6kQw2%2BTFc11V5c6YmwnTwXJKbfLOlVFUi1TokQQVm7QtyZLETHNJS55Ejm31KRqGkXNa77PXpPPouyEZVurg0d1ZxG%2BmDDSHdmQ4m7x7pGgBHOwXv%2Bzsu6O2%2FyODVQV7kcqWL1DkAvagCvUCBAoTAmxIA7EAXcBRz1GN%2B85o9Ss8stsHLyReNXJI9y2bRpsDctNgLWhgMDMGjRs6wvisufJP95%2Bp6nhpdC3h6lYuJBMCwbAEmeKiMq%2FdKlGFUyzRbXe8Oc%2FI0TNMAX5Gblb7pSM5eHFUlfqabPHVVFV1MGCdXkw2DaRJHy1RJ%2BRSj5lZtFxdJJvqJPDSBoFybnI1tJcF1lLmtqvqZWOHNzZeIEkQePXRNqMQ5asLAVxUWSM5U2wIZOKTi%2Bo7KePpVC05HZXECCRIBnks3HlNo0hKKfIVsxfX9XUXxyLvwOw8wqxO3yKQB1OeMBTJclpmXicR3g1pIy8ovbQ8evkkpJ9jVRpWyeGwhcZNzzTUbM5TLxoRwlRJtKyU7HLLfgo6jAVzDTzQijy3e6iKuKeGHIW5Xgn3XEcD6DTivoNHNY4JvlPj1LnieSFXyjWdVGLwrmVsoqNHv5YAcLggnhHzUQl4GZOHT9aMsmJ7eTzlwX0R5pXqBMRUqBAAkCJsQAdgQB3u4mxQCK9TW4Ywjwh4K8T2lq014cfzf2O%2FT4WveZ6XsyjPeItPd8tV884s6Jyrg0u1DbWngFKltI2tku%2BdY8vxRLLMEojDBDU6qeXy2Pe%2BgYUmi%2FHSf5o4RNthQVal3JJG4stbtWhAalTofJQ22UkEDhlk26k%2FitYxuJL6g31iHNGVxBmXCIbAtN5vpZNUuR1aZKiXXzEG%2FdgEQOANzJ62VpvuS67Ei5TKXNAkDfVAWTyJFJMr1Kw94HglKS%2FeiUovozLxeMLhlabnU8lkm31NlFLkhgsHEEreiJzs2MPRhNR7mLYYslJwTVAmV3sdmEEZeMrDarNE1Q1Wl8lLXcEzyH2jYqrhsVRqMcC0gzTjuy0iQT1DtOEL6H2XjhnwSjJc%2BZObLODTXQtM27TxmEe2l9VVyw9trDUweLSAbhENNLTZ05crsRLL4kHRxLgvfOIDUCBFOqmAFAibEAdJuzu3VxUuZlDWFvv5u%2FMmGwIOl%2FFcWr1uPAql1fkb4cLm7PXdj7IYC0l2YtMuaILZgWIibL5Sed7uh6Mm6o6hlFugAA5Dh%2BSuVS6HNb7kvown4rFaa5ehW%2FgcUknj5DcThXSXUQUUBMF0ExaOel%2FNdC02PcoynTdcV501z%2BZG99UiXZCAS7mNOWq0%2FDQUE5T8108uotzvhCGE172h5TwlUvZySl73R%2BV%2BvmLxfQCWidZ6wQuZwjGVbrXnVfoaW6GfRYBJcSDYDKYt04a6rZ4sUYbt%2FDuuH2%2F5JUpN1Q%2FYCS3N3gSIgxI1Epfho73BT95Wujq16%2Feh73V1wQoUsxieBPPQTHzWenxvNLa3XD7X05HKW1WRdhJcG54M6ZT5cVp%2BEjLIob%2BfLa%2F4h4lK6%2FUFi6fZMLi6B%2FaGWZIEC9zfTxTyaF48e6%2Bnmqv4c9fQcJ75UkZ9emx7zSZVuKYqWYT3XAOiJ1hwPmiGhhOe1T7J%2Fu%2Bavz8mjRTlFbmu9dSOC2Q0OyioZvMsIMt8%2FH06qFpoSyeGp%2Bf8AhfFfn8fl6inmlV1%2BppMwrQ2Q6QIBtGsx8iplihscoyuq7V1v%2BBnud00FYER8hMZ9ASClPHymNS4oeoxZ5oNMIsA9shYVasuzg%2FanswPwr3wJY5jpgTAJbr4OK9P2TlcdQo9nYsvOM8jw2HvPJfVJHCWSmIDUQIp1UwAoEdVudu42v9ZWns7hrQXAuNu9I0A%2BPlfzddrXh92HU6sGDct0uh6bW2jRw9IEw1rWgNboYFgAvntk806XLPRhjI7r7zsxFV9NrHCLh3BwBieh0MG6rUaGWFRlJ9RTXFo7em5ZJ7ehytBMyh5W%2BFwFDA8pUfAYSeq1SvuSEbVd0tEGGk28pXRHLlu7XFf4Yt8dOavj4k7V%2FVlLGbW7OAb8u6DcmOV1n%2BKyqoKn8VH7o1hp9%2FK%2BpbGKPQ3kyG%2FiFqtXkkuafN8qL%2BqMvDRCtVm5%2FL5LLNPdzLr8voOKrhFXEYs5QIsLgQJ9dVhPUTlFQ7L0X1qzWONXZOhjy4uvcGCcrQZIB1i9iLhbR1Wa%2FeavzqN%2FNK%2FuTLEl%2FwAgnV3MdIPSIB16ELnjlyYpbo%2FRP6plbVJUwNbaGQZmmCLyQD6StI5pQe6HD%2BCf1VAse50zm8RtV2V9PMJqS4NLKZibB0EHII0iOK1w5MkYOKra3bVKr%2BXH5dDq8OKal5er%2FpmlsypUEOcWF2QMc7sqQkNEAQGQLADwAHAK56uduXHKr92PTy6GE4xfC%2Br%2FAIm3QrOEHu2mIawDvRJgCOAWcdRki001xdVGPer4quxg4J%2F8sOahIi3kGj5BXLJKcdrr8kl9EiUkhuMLP%2FFtQyTXKt1cMVDuMyOOqTt2mAOobQs8jqNIpGJtpuak9tpcC0SJEkWtxWWKbjNP1NlGzwrG4E0Kj6JdmLDEw4A21AdeF9ziyLJFTXc81x2ugDirEAqFMCrVQICgR6nu4w9iwsaB3AWtmdQIEr5nVL9rK33PXxNbUS2ps9%2BSpnJq5nd1tu4ItltMqMWaClGuK%2FU68bT4Nj2W7qVnOqV6xNJrBkAIiftOJgweFzovQnhjq17skorq%2Ft6epyarOoJR6tnouIwJZle14dTggwLySIMzpYjzXBqdCsMFkhLdF9%2F66nJDLutNUy23ZwgZngOOgt%2BiuiPsqNLxJpSfRf0%2BfyM3n8lwCo4Mmo5hdBAnna0fP4Llw%2Bz5S1EsMpU0r6Wu3w8zSWWoKSQV%2BzzBLXgxwjlw1XTP2VJRcsc067V%2FNkLPzTQP6E59Mua8AwYGWbiY4qMPs%2BeXB4ql58V5et9%2FgU8qjOmilU2aHU%2B0JuDER1iZXEtC5ab8Ru79K9a639jZZ9s9iRcxeC7OmXZpiOHlzXdqPZ602HxN19O3n%2BZhDLvnVFehhe0omqXFoAecpbfuEibHjCnB7MeowrLvq74r%2BZc8qhPZRV3cYMRh2YntQ1j8wALdMr3M1nm1PD7IvGpznV%2Bn3tFajLsyOCV0WsXQawAB4dqSRwiOp5%2FBYanSY8Kityl15Xaq9WTCbl2oFtXZJFJ1Y1IDWFxbl0ESbzyngt83smSxPKpdFdV%2Bl39gxaj3lCu5ylGMZh8U7D4gNdhw4OJZ2neDC6Peby638IT0XsvxEp5OF5ef8C82o8N0uX9DldzqZfle8kvc3M4mLk3JMW9Fz61qL2x6Hc21GmenbF2X2oPfjLHCZmevRLR6H8Wpe9VV2vrfqvI4c2bw%2BxcpYQmp2cxEiY5cY9FOPROeoeC%2Bl8%2FD09fiRLIlDcWDgCKgZm1EzHjbVdf%2FAE5x1Cw7%2Bqu6%2B1mfi3DdRGjgA6oRN2yQevu6TyKjBot%2BoljvpfNeTHLLUEydLBzLnPDWiQSf1ZVi0HiJznLbFd%2F66CeSuErYq2FLS3vBzXEAHx%2Bayz6GWKcKlujJpJ%2FH6%2BY45E0%2BOUDxOFh7WZtYvHMwo1Gi2aiOHd1rmvN10scMlxcqMbbuBDKnEkAd7QQZtEmVhrNN%2BGn4d3wn0r%2BJ04MjlGzx3f8AluIY1waT2c9oGwXy9wGaDcgNA9ei%2Bg9lO8La8%2BlnNqq3nMkr0jmBPKYFWogQFAj1PYe1WCA0giLRGn4L5jPimm3I9iNSXB1WHxLXaRYrzMkWikmjtNjP%2FqlQ9XafwtXs6Nr%2FAKflfx%2BiODMv20SLNofVinHEGZ%2FtTouKOv8A2MdPXdc3630L8H3txe2m76%2BkOrf969H2lf4zD8V%2F7Ixw%2FwB1L8%2FoWGj%2Bsn%2B6%2FwC4LpX%2FAJN%2F%2FX%2F%2BkQ3%2Bw%2FP7DYSmaZqOdYEzw5n81GkxS00s2XLwm%2BPm%2FwCIZJKe2MSez3xTZ1JHqTC09nT2aWF921%2BrFlVzZVx78lB9jZ8QOrhB8IIXPrI%2BFopryl9%2BP0NMS3ZV8PsWtpNzUnt%2FsT6SfwXfrFv084f5b%2B%2F2MsT2zT9QWHoAYfsv%2BVfn3mnj6p6X3NPGPdRT%2BYZHeRv1MrZmzi3ZzKNFosTlbIH71xPQcVx48eTUaBRXLfn6SOjJkX4hyl%2FXB57i61fDY5tPEOh9Qsa2mHB2ZtV3ZsygGxDjfoFzS9nypYmuX3%2Fmdzy45Yrj2PRa2N7fFYzA%2FZGEpRzmqcQ1%2FwD09kvoNqdp%2FI8a6Sf6nmHsOEbN2mDYgGfHsHyqIZZ3IZGHomNaTJ5%2B6DbzXxuul%2B1kvVnu9YJvyPSt2nQ2qeADT6By9H2NNRjll5V9zz9UrcUaAbFZ7uAZPy%2F%2FACV1KGzW5Mj6bb%2Fr5Mxu8aXqTqft2%2FwH5lXk%2FwDIQ%2F0P6iX90%2FiCwZ%2Buf%2Fi%2F3BYaN%2F23Ivj9UVk%2Fu0KgBUpvp9T85%2Baem2anBPBfNv639RyuElIrNzgsYTAa5sDwPPzXDF51PHhnwoyjx%2BZo9rTku6LuJwzjVa4Cwy3twN16Wp0mSeqhliuFX6MxhNKDTMbeBwNYt45QfmF5Pth%2F2n8l9zq0yfh36niftRYG4ml%2FdmTw986evyXpexv7qS9fsRqnbTORK9c5gLymIrVEADQInSeQZBIPMGD6hDSapjTa5R126m1K4zd8ubIEOudOBNxaF4%2FtDBi4pU%2FQ9LRylJPc7PZd0McamzcS6DLXvEam1Om78VOnwVocsV3v6InUJLUw%2FL6stYXDs%2BiNrwcxcIuQCM8aHoFwx0WKOkjmkvetc%2Bm7y%2BA5Tl4zxrpX2Nrarj9IoiNY%2BD5PwXZ7SjL8Zhpd1%2Bklf6HNgrwpf12LjXf1kj%2Fl%2FwDcF1xf%2FcX%2FAKPujJ%2F3P5g9n4g1HVWOuAY4aSR%2BCy0OeeeebFkdpP8AS2vsVlgoKMkVnVwzCh8gBpmToIcTJXLCbXs6Eo9d3H%2B5l7bzNBtrVmvw2dpBa4McDwIdBB9IXZ7Wqeik13r6ojAnHLT7WGe%2F60MP2qR%2BBH4EreUv7Qsb6OD%2Bq%2FiQl7jfkwbcQO0rtH7unT%2BIqH5QnF%2FtcsV2jFf%2Bw3H3Yvzb%2BxyeN2qamxu2oPqMJeWhzMweIxTmOiL8CscEMmPRJd%2BvHq77eh0xUfxVOq9fh6nlu6mIrYvbmE7UVoDzldWNRzntw7X1Wkl%2FVoMcJ6rsw4mopzdvr8DLNqLbUFS6cdz17ZeHwg2vXrs2hSfXqs7F2EDqeZvZinNg7NI7NxiLZnLZR5s53NuKic1uHgTSbt6lGletlH9lzKhZ%2FwBJCogHu1RcKVMvBnIwGWx9kcIEHyXxWqjJTk2uLZ70mqpHcbCA7KvH3B%2Fteu32d%2F8AH1H%2Bn7SODP8Avw%2BP8DWrv%2Bqz8XNYPU%2F%2BRXrZ8i%2FDeN3kor5v%2BZzRXv7fKxVP%2FUN%2FgPzKnI%2F%2B4QX%2BV%2FVgv7p%2FEFgmnt6nn8SFz6KDWvyv4%2FVF5H%2ByiVn0CGmq10EE2A6xP6C4p6eUMT1WOVNN9F61d%2FyNFJOWxotYokii%2BIJc0HwNz8viu%2FUt5I6fNVSco38Hy%2FoZwpOce1MWLrkVmNBMHLabG5S1eecdbCCbr3eO3VihFPG2Z%2B3mTU%2Fwj8V5%2FthJ6n1pfc30z9w8r9oe778R2RogFzHOa6SGwx0Sb3IDmjSfeKr2Vq44dyyPh8%2FmbajG5pNHnm0NnVaJLarC0gxOrTrBB6weq%2Bix5YZFcWcMoOPUoPWpBXegASBDtQB6PuxsiKDM1iZcYOsyR5xGi%2Bd12ovK6%2BB6%2Bnjsgjs9gbQrYTN2UEPjMxwJbbjYgg9fyCwwa%2BeF%2B78mVlwxy%2FvENu7z4muQ17WhjTIawEdJdJJJ15C%2BivVaqWqjtlwvIvT6bHi5XU0cFv5WY0NIY6AAHEHN%2Fig3WkPaeohDbSfqzOXs%2FHJ2rRY2bvI%2FOahLS9wgzMQSNACOQXBj1ebHmlm4cnxz07eTXkGTSxcVHsW8Pt51NznNy943mSNSefVGDXZcM5Tglcutp%2FHz9TOWmU0k74KuI2xmomh3Mt%2BBJuSYMmIus1qsiwLBS2p33vrfW%2FsaRwJZPE5sFT3kc2g2g4U4AgRMgA93jGkcF0y1mWeHwXW34c%2FX7A9LHxHNWUMRv252JblyB1NrgO67Jcfa70k8YBC6Xqc7lHO0uOO%2FKf5jjo8ag4O%2BTI2p7THUalXs206lWsGioIflZlaWiCHSDDtL6cF1aaWdynlaS3V%2BnHHP1M54cVRhb46fzMfYPtLxGzsJToAUXsaXFssqOqE1HuqEuPaAaudw9ePfDLOXuwSVeZjmw4o%2B9Nu35FLantexT8TQxLaeGLqLKzWTTqgDtywOkdrJMUmxBjvHXh0wcq944sihfuX%2BZymzN6K9HaB2ixtM1jUq1SHBxp5q4eHiA4GPrHR3uSdkUdPsr2rY6liK9VlLCB%2BKqU3VMzaoY1zWNpAj63uiACZJ4%2BCHKlYKN8HqdDb2JxFMMrtpBwMk0g4CROmZxtwXy2v1886eOlt6%2Bv1%2Bx6sdNDE7Tdmrg8UWNcABDxBmZ0ItHiVx4dVPBCUY1UlT%2Flz6kzxqTV9iwMe8sawxAjnNud03r8zxRwuqVed8efP2I8KKk5E6mNe5weYBFhHnrc81eTW5smaOaVJrpX%2FL8xLFFRcQ1fatQggQLaiZ%2Bdl05va%2BolFxVL1X25Ijp4J2BwWPcwGIjiDe659J7QyYE1Hp5Pz9CsmJSfIq%2BOe5zXECGkFoGk9fgjN7Qy5skZyr3XaXYI4oxTS7kK%2B0JqNccodwHPKRw8SPVTl1k8mZZmlar4cc%2BZUcVQaXQDj6z3uDjlHAiDpBiL81jqs08%2BTxMnWq4%2Fpl44qKpGLiqRiRbW4jjxWON7WdCa7nI7w4FtWmQ5hAzza0G4kaxrdexpdS4SuLFkxKapnl%2BKpFji06tJB8l9JGSklJHkyi4umU6iokEgRYwOHNSoxg1c4DhxN9baSoyTUIuT7FQjukke3bKoAN0k2vzjivjMsnZ7DNai7KNGmTxAKzjm2ron8VYmrAY11v2dKf7tpW8dS1%2Fhj8hxj6v5mJjC8XFGj%2FAKTeHkuvHq%2FNR%2BRqorzfzMirvFXpEzRoxIA%2BrAPULqWya6R%2BSKeNeb%2BYVm9VYj9jR%2FyD8lDhBPpH%2Fag8Jeb%2BYw3krH91Q%2F0p%2FFHuL%2FCvkg8Neb%2BYenjazyM1Oj%2FpNUPPGPSMfkJwXm%2FmPWxgptnsaENufqmjzmLlOOeU3VL5EOHq%2Fmcd%2FTrjXzfR8MQXR%2BwZmjTU%2Fqy9fdWKuDjUH4l2%2FmaO1HveG9lhcK5xdHeoU7CCZM6aDxkQssGqUf36QanTSa4t%2FmcxW229rnNOGwUtJaf6uzUGCvRUrVo81xp0MNvO%2FwDjYP8A%2BsxOwol%2FT5F%2FouDMXj6PTS6jSp2e67FxQNNrgyn3mh1mD7QBXxmXM1J%2B7Hj%2FACo9eSvu%2FmbFCvrZkfwhTDNa5jH5IylH4km4ocm%2F5VK1H%2BWPyQOHxJsq9G%2F5QqWe%2FwDDH5ITiN9Kvo22tgpeo5%2Fdj8kHh8EaGIMe62ZM90KY6h9Nsfkhyh6sMa%2FRvoFfjPrtj8kRt%2BILtZPeDZ4HKFKzNvmMf9qL28cX8xn97l5WQ7ydl%2BXALgw9s4xtFjnEiOUgE9BOpibJYsTlLajeEdzOd2li%2B6atM9w37xiQbCeRuBrxXdDB7200a28M8iqOJuTJOpmfjxX1SVLg8Rld6YgaBGvurQLsQ1wMZO9NuIIHjquXWzUcTT7nTpIbsl%2BR7Jsx4gXm1yNPJfJZVyejI0aZBuueSERrG%2BqEmNFDEtBGq2hwWmc%2FtbCd06gaSL3IXdhlzZrF3wUMPSY2AToOJ1sLnmtZSk%2BRuy1Sc3lHHkspKQi1SrDQwB8ev4LNxJoobw4pjaJHd5wIvcaBdGlhKUyZOlbOXwWHuXwMxIiYPecRHTVejkl2IhFXZp4iuKcEk52XdAIBzC0CwOh09dVlGLkqrhmsmr%2BBye8FRj67nsEB0E8BOhIHAWB9V6mnTWNJnj6lJZHRSAWxgIkCJEi0t0kcRI0nRAHu%2B6FUOoUy0ktLQQSOYkW4Hh5L4rVJrLJPzZ7MqaTR0bWkhYJNoysIGCJQ4xSFbCC3y%2FNC45EyuGd61hx%2FBJLkvd7pZDI4K5RrmjOxhY%2Fr4KY9QGI%2BKNrY7BVnq2qGjmtpvbWqFoJHZu0uBJa0i%2FHX5jgt4bo%2B9XDOvGtqK9U5H92ILeIMZjcEiek%2BtxK3xydkzjuieTbcwL6NVzXkGSXBwEB0mSQ2TludF9NgyxyQuJ5GXHKDpmU9bGQNBJrbuY3sqhMaiJ5X%2FXouTWYvEgkdekmoydnaYHeRotMef5fq68TJopPk9PdFmpT2%2BOdzfmuZ6VlUhO260HNmiNBwM8whaaXSgpFSrvKzmPX5LVaKYboooY3bgcIBHwK3hpWuovESMp%2B19dItwHyC6lpiXmKuJ2%2BbS%2FQZROsfktY6S%2Bxi9TGPcubMxj6t8wDdJsZNhoD8QscuKMOK5N8c3NWuhr4XY5qB2d7HAAOtNhrA48NVzzzqD91D69SjtjY%2BRhIfOU5jMgQQQSY5CFvgz7nTXUJLiykcY2qw5jwGVxOUBwIDnHMOQiy3WNwfBEsikjm69UVHF4AbMCB0AE%2FBejCO2NM8nLNTk5IhlVmZPDZA9pqAuYHDOBYkcVM1Jxe3qVGty3dD1Hdbaf1hbTLRSyjK0C8C4d8%2FVfM6vHtjbu75PdaUoJnc4WqIBn4rzFwc0kXm1gRBT3Jrkz20V6Te8TeDeLW00%2BJ81lXPJo3xQ%2BJMiWuIjkG36XCq0n0FFeYUm2uqUrEhTpxToQPEYwMaSZgDT8lpB26GoWzAO3RUswEEAFzXRIzTYwbEQRHzut5YNv7x0Rw11KFDtRL6jQCSTYFunO5Hn1Wkox6Q6epqmug1VweM0GOR4HkQqinF0HQ5HezD5qZIEgRHGDz6Dh5yvW0UqkcmqipQOEevWPJYNBIRtUtBgkTr1ScU%2BpSk10BCu7MHEm3y4pbVVFKclJMs%2FwBKvGluVyfyWfgR7mv4mXYA7G1D9s%2FBWsUF2IebI%2B5B%2BIeftHysmoRXYl5JvuIV3az%2BvJGyPkLxJeZDM77x9SqpCt%2BZEtQIt4PaFSnGU2BkA3A8OI8llkwwn1N8WoyY%2BIvg0%2F8AinEQR3BIiQHSPCXR6hc%2F4HFd8mz12Vrt%2FX5lbD7crNd33uqNM52PMtcCNDyFhpyWstNja4VPs12MoamadydryZa2%2Ft44rKxrAxjSDFtQ0N0AgW4DWynT6bwrbdsrPqPEVJUjPa2F1HMOgCL0AXcBtk06jHt7uUQRNnLky6ZTg4vmzuxan3lfCO%2F2bvZ3QTY%2FAx%2BtF4OXQNPg7%2Fdlya1PeoXM9Y%2BfUrnekmg8NM1G7caYOYQdIkT5ahYSxSXAvCLDNqggXseJ9Vk4MXhh6G0m8%2Fj%2FADS2smWNhW40Hp5%2BStIlwoo7QIdlJdYGdbTexHKJ1WuOMldGkODNBaahIzA6QRE3sfDVb7ZKNM3vgHiNptf9WMzXDg4WfFib%2FJdCxNK%2BxMY1yBwjnPDhBaJtzF7g2lVKFUEqRTxwHekwLggjX8lvie0yk00ef7x4dgfNPSO8NIPgV7OKe5HlZse1mItjnJJDBlqQxZUALIgB8iAGLUANCYChIBwEAPCQD5EwCUWoAKEwHhAEKiAKrmIEJlVw0JCTjF9S1klHoyxT2lUHHx1WbwwZqtTNFnD7eqtjjHUrOWkxyNI62a6o2MLvY7n1gj8ZXHP2dE6oa2MjrdgbSqVRnyAsiQXGAYImIm68%2FLpY43TN%2FEU17p0FOoBLmmQecDLzsuWWJJgueGZ7394B1QSTrpPCCNDy%2Fmt4ryRr2IASS5pJbpEgjukggW%2FUK%2BnDQ74MP6c%2FOXPse8QTEWGURMCPM6kru8OG2kQp%2BY%2BK3lFBzRUaXMMEOBaQQdHMLZDrXueaIaZzZz5c8Yqzn9tbeD6ofQJb3YcYjPcmHD7QGnmV249P7m3Jz5ehwZM3vXAyKmerLiZItEcD14X0HitVUOCHeTkD2PQ%2FFVuJ2AmrQzHypDHDUgFCAGIQBEhAEYQA8IAcBAD5UwJwgCTQgB0AOgBFAA3MQBA00gBmmgCJYmBEsRYqO09n20q3aGmazezDR3HmSZMNyEmWxAEC0HS8rzvaGOLhdc%2BaOzSzal14Jb14%2Bu40qIc17nVHvaaZ1aXAUQYPJx15i%2FNabFjScmq4S5%2FUvJkyJpI0sBTqdnkxFRtJ7WmD2jXFzSYzkE%2FecGxbgspuD97GrXwN8c5ribo0NlbQdmdQqObnpiZgtztOjmgjoSQJWOXEqU4rhlwyc7ZdS897Ay5zBxFgJkEgSPXmoimaMwN7Mbh%2ByNJ1RpcZcGlri%2FTuzlFtYBPxhdumhPduS4OPPKG1p9Tz9rhx%2BC9M84mzEEGWmLQltvqVuroCzHmU6RO5k2pgECQDkIAZAESgYxCAGhACAQA4CAJBADhAh0AOEwFKQClADoASAIkIGMWIoCJYlQA30wgBUHljgWnKQdeXVKSTVMcW07R1m2NuUwxjXMpVXtvBGZglsAyDp0nSPFefgwSttNpfqd%2BfLBccNhcFvz9W4Vabc7f2bQMrY%2B6C0SLRrN72VS0XvJJ8d%2FMyjqeG%2B5kbb3lr1iA2q4Uy0d0Q0zxDi25v4cPE9MNPjjzXJlPPOXcxi4nUknS5J4k8epPqtjKyLmpkg0wHQIK0oAmCkMlKAGJQA0oAaUAJAClAClADygBSgB5QApQAgUAPKAHlMBSkApQApQAzigYIuSAgUARTAYIAI0IAmAgBygQIpiGQA4KAJAoAfMgBSgBSgYpQIaUAKUAKUAKUAPmQAsyAFmQA8oAWZACzIAWZACzIAWZACJQMgkBFxQBEoAZAE2lABMyYESUCIOKAGlAEggBwgB0AJADIAdACQAyAEEAJACQA6AEgBIASAEgYkCEgB0AMgBkAQKAGSAQQBMJgOgBigCLkAQQB%2F9k%3D&hash=7f21f30b5d4baba3317cc15e8b62930f)


quite tasty

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2020, 11:17:48 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 24, 2020, 10:39:32 AM

Tastes like polenta because they're the same thing.  Both taste like ground corn.  You might or might not like the flavor of ground corn, or you might not find it to be a strong flavor, but there you have it.  That's what ground corn tastes like.

I do my polenta in cubes and then deep fry. Much nicer texture that way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 24, 2020, 11:21:06 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 24, 2020, 09:59:05 AM

Heck, I eat snails.  The only major food I dislike is liver, just really dislike it.

Any liver.

Incl. foie gras?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2020, 11:27:24 AM

Love that stuff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 24, 2020, 11:34:52 AM

in other news...........

Dow rallies more than 400 points to surpass 30,000 for the first time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2020, 11:38:22 AM

The markets have traditionally performed better when there is a D president/administration. I expect this run to continue well into 2021. Of course, there will be choppiness. That's a sign of where we are with the virus.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2020, 11:52:13 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 24, 2020, 11:21:06 AM

Incl. foie gras?

There is some in France I've had that is "OK", but it's not my favorite.

The wife loves the stuff.

The stock market is telling us something, I think, though it can be wrong of course.  This is about the vaccine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 24, 2020, 12:44:02 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on November 24, 2020, 10:42:14 AM

 Didn't like the veal brain. 

It now joins tuna salad, tuna steak and butterfingers on my no go menu.

Friend brought home some Tuna they caught on a charter off NY.Damn those tuna steaks flipped a few times in just butter.One of the best things I ever ate

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 24, 2020, 12:52:43 PM

Love foie gras.

There's a local French place that does it every bit as well as what I've had in France.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 24, 2020, 01:02:31 PM

Notice I didn't say sashimi or toro (tuna).    

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 24, 2020, 01:53:27 PM

for Nubbz in other news.........

Purdue Pharma pleaded guilty Tuesday to three criminal charges, formally admitting its role in an opioid epidemic that has contributed to hundreds of thousands of deaths over the past two decades.

In a virtual hearing with a federal judge in Newark, New Jersey, the OxyContin maker admitted impeding the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration’s efforts to combat the addiction crisis. Purdue acknowledged that it had not maintained an effective program to prevent prescription drugs from being diverted to the black market, even though it had told the DEA it did have such a program, and that it provided misleading information to the agency as a way to boost company manufacturing quotas.


https://apnews.com/article/purdue-pharma-opioid-crisis-guilty-plea-5704ad896e964222a011f053949e0cc0 (https://apnews.com/article/purdue-pharma-opioid-crisis-guilty-plea-5704ad896e964222a011f053949e0cc0)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 24, 2020, 01:57:24 PM

Pisses me off, because everyone would assume that Purdue University is somehow affiliated with this mess, whereas this company has no relationship with the university at all. 

https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2018/purdue-university-statement-re-purdue-pharma.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 24, 2020, 01:57:59 PM

I don't think that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 24, 2020, 01:59:04 PM

Well I wasn't refering to that seedy part of Big Pharma but cane them if guilty.Hopefully Perdue Chicken isn't embarassing anyone

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2020, 02:49:56 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 24, 2020, 01:59:04 PM

Hopefully Perdue Chicken isn't embarassing anyone

They are advertising a lot around here now, but it's confusing to me, they want me to vote for something instead of just buying their chicken.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 24, 2020, 03:44:09 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 24, 2020, 11:06:03 AM

we call that corn meal mush around here
(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdata%3Aimage%2Fjpeg%3Bbase64%2C%2F9j%2F4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD%2F2wCEAAkGBxMTEhUTExIVFhUWFxcVFRUXFxYXFxgYFRUWFhYVFxgYHSggGB0lGxYVITEhJSkrLi4uFx8zODMsNygtLisBCgoKDg0OGhAQGy0lICYtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLf%2FAABEIAOEA4QMBEQACEQEDEQH%2FxAAcAAABBQEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAADAAECBAUGBwj%2FxABHEAABAwIDBQUEBwQIBQUAAAABAAIRAyEEEjEFBkFRYRMicYGRBzKhsRQjQlLB0fAzQ3LhFSRic4KSk7IWY6LC4jRTVJTS%2F8QAGgEAAwEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBv%2FEADwRAAICAQMCAwYDBQcEAwAAAAABAhEDBBIhMUETUWEFInGRscEUgaEjMtHh8CQzQmJykvEVJTWyNHPC%2F9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwB6VPS0Lyz0jQo4IlIVhjs8co8EWA%2F0HpKdgM3BeSBDDDR1SGR%2Bhsdq2OqLCyvW2aBdpRY0ynUpEWIQUJmqYh3YedRZIYx2SwiS30RuaCkyljNkR7t%2BiqM%2FMHEpDDub7w9VbafQnlDmkCjoFWFp0iND5KbTCqJtYDq1MVBBhGmwPkUWKhf0SeXmFSkKgLsEQfzsnYhfRjyKQwjMPzEosZM0BpceCdBY9PDOjUOHVAivVwrgfdI8LqkyGiVIOmAZQLkd1YtMOHok0mUnRWxLp%2FmlQ7AZP1KQ7OywTZWLKNnC0wkSy6KITAztobQo0Pfqsb0LhPomoN9EFruYOK33wYtmcerWmPVaLT5PInxI%2BZRO%2FGF5v82%2FzT%2FDzDxIhv8AjHBH95CTwz8h74%2BYQbxYQiRXb52UPHLyKUkXqG0KDhaqx09QpcZIq0WBh6btI8lNsYnbPOoTsLHbhXcr8xZSFk24Mi5E%2BIugdjYnCscILb%2BCVjRXdsgRdlktzHwVauxxwJCamwoA%2FZrhwnwVb0FADQI4J7goPSe5vFG4HAt0cQ11ngJ2Q4lyng6bvddCe4mmOdmniARzCLFZF2z2DUEeKLYWAdswHRUpsAL8I4KlJCor1aBGoVcMRUqMaOCAKOIc0cEchwUs7eQ%2BKfI6Oh2ZXqiA4taFg0WHx%2B%2BFGgcs9o77rb%2Bp0C0hglIylkijltqb44mvZruyZyZ73m7X0XZj00V1MJZX2KdHAse0kmXx7xMn4rvWKNcHO5uzmcXRNxyXM0WmUQ0qBhITASQyTXEaEjzRQWW6G1azPdquHmocIvqi1kku5qYTfPFs%2FeT4qHggylmkbWE9pdcEZqbT1Wb0y7Mrxl3Rt4X2o0j%2B0pEeH8pWb00i1liadPfrCPsH5TyMQsngmuxayRfc08PtvDVB3KzWnqYHxUPHJF2X2Fp4tf8AwkT6KdoWE%2BjtPT4KKHuZRxmE%2FUSmikzMq0SPsen5KkMVPDNOpLfEKkmxNk6GGHBwPmjkGWaZqNsD6lCdktFuhtIaPb5p2S4F1gpv0MfBUmQ0QdhCdCD4oEV62Gj3meifQLMbGYNrpgwVW5jo5%2FaGCe0aSqUkFGP2TvulXuQqMTG7frVhlnIz7rePieK3hhiuTnnlbKtJq6EjIstKd0AanjS3RWslCcSmakkk8VnuHQPscxhouVEpJFRi2Cr4Ko33mEeShZIvuU8cl2AGmeSdoW1kSwp2KhoQAoQAkAJAhJgSY8jQkeFkqsdliltCq24qOB8UnCL7FKcl3NClvTi2iO2cfEkrPwYPsUs0jTwntAxbIu13PMJlQ9LBleOzVp%2B0sn9ph2nqCQs3pPJlrUIuUvaDQd71N49CFL00ilniW8PvBgKn7zsz1BCl4ZotZYvuX27QpSMmIY8dHCVHhvyKU0EGPBNktjHuQR9ccHQUkhk8NjarTYz4q9pLSZo0drffEdRdLklx8hsRWpvkyErFTMDH0mmQ15B5Jpjoyfo7%2Fv8AwVWFHm9Mr00eeWGPRYwmdJyHQxKVjBkoEWNm4vJVa48CCs8kd0aNMcqZ6i7auFrUxZma0yvOcJRO1SszMZsrDPJDY8UKckOk%2Bpk1N2mTAK08aRDxxIv3MnRya1LF4MSvW3Hq8Lq1qvQl4EZ2I3Srt0YStFqYkPTPsZtbY1ZutN3otFmg%2B5m8El2KrsO4atPorU0Q4NAy08lVk0NCBDQgBQgB4TASAFKAJB5QAWljHt0c4eBIS2oe5l2lvBiG%2FvXHxv8ANTsj5FLJIu0N767dS0%2BI%2FJT4MS1mkX6W%2FDvtMHkVLwLsUs%2FoX2b60SLhzT4T8lm8DLWaIOpt%2Bk7SqPA2PxUPDJdi1ki%2B5X%2FpUf8AuD%2FN%2FNLw35D3R8zjWFdxwBmlIYQOQMlKQDFMCBCACU6pHFS4lKTQQY54%2B0VHhorxGGZtWoPtFJ4kUsrL%2BH3kqt4rN4EWsxqYbfWqLGFD05SymvhN92%2Faas3gaL8RGph958M%2F3mhQ8UkUpeoR%2BIwNTVrfQKdskVZVrbCwT9ICrfNdxNJ9ijiNzcMfdd8VSzTRLxwfYxMZucB7rlqtS%2B5DwRfQyMTu09ul1rHUJmb0%2FkZ9XZb26harKmZvDJAHYcjgrUkZuLRDs07JobImBEsTAbIkBE00AQc1AAyUAQL0CI50AW2FSUHYUDCBICYQAkAFw%2BFfUMMaXEXgCbKJ5IwVydFRhKXRCqYV7feY4eLSELJF9GhuEl1QB7Y1EeNla5JZFMQkgHlFDsWYpUFskKpRtHuCtxbhxU7EUsjDM2pUGjipeNMpZWHbtyqPtFT4MR%2BKzrt2dj4zFBtQnJSJ1dOZwH3Ry6lebqtXhw3Fcs6IW%2BWdRidyXuuyvFtHCR66rhxe0u0olto5za%2B7eLpOg0w9v3wQBpqZNl349Xia54fkJJy4Rzm3dnVKOU1GZQ73SCCPCRxXVgzwy3sfQzywcephuautM5qBlqqxURLVVk0NlTsVESE7FRBzE7FQF9NICu9iAB5EAWWFSMOxAwoKAJgpAGw2HfUcGU2lznWa0akqZSUVcnwNJvoe17obrU6FME04c4NJze9MXBXzGqy5M0%2FefHY7U1FVE6N2BZ90egXHKLXQe9g62x6TvepsP%2BEK4Rn1UqDec9tLcPC1ZmkGk%2FaZ3T5RZa49fqcTq7XqDjCXVHO7S9mzGsim8yLjNEm2k8l2Q9rZFL30CwY5Kjjdobs1m1MjWGcuaD8geK9PFr8c422Rl0jXMeUYRC7jjGQAkAaOxNi1cVUDKTTr3nkHK0cyfwWGo1OPBHdN%2Fl3ZcMbm%2BD1ndb2f4fDgPqgVqoMhzgcovaGG3mV8%2FqPaeTMqhwjpjijE7YDgBC86RZIBOKoGCxeDZVaWPaHNIgg6Facun5DjNxdoHU2TSc0NfTY5oiGuaHARpEohGUHuTBzcupym8Hs6wtbM6kDRqEWyQGTe5Z14rtxe08mPh8r1%2FiQ4Jnj%2B1cFUw1V1Gq2Ht9CDo5p4gr6LFkjlgpx6M5ZJxdMqh0rSibEgLIliYiBYmAJ4QIrvQIGgArEhh2IAKEDJhID0X2T7JaXOxLgZaSxmmW4GY9SNF43tXU7Kx%2Fmzoww4s9WY7kvBnkt8G1Bmnoqi76iaIvCJLyBEJHVK0MobRezKS4kQY4%2Fgp6%2FE1xp3wYe0cO3KXsM%2Bsg8wrxypm9t8M8U2kC2rUaTJD3SdJvMr7HDLdBP0PIyR2zaK2daEGzsHd6rijDMrb6unSbmy5NTrMeBe8dGPTTnHd0R7PsHY7MJRZTacxA1iJPMwvlNTnefI5s64qlRuUp8FnFS6Il0HAXQoUuSLBGsToC30WUslfuotRJtfKW7cKqCEHnf8FqoSffkm0CIlR4S7Ds4%2FeTdmhin5qjZcO6HAkEdLLo0%2BsyYFUXwauEZpbkZOG3XoUjAYAQS4HVwEcHaldT12TJ%2B8yo4oR5ijzzeXBmlXMlpD%2B%2B3LoASQBoL2XuaTLHJjVduDz9RBwnyZUrqMBEoAG8oArVECBIAIxIYdiAChAyQSA9X9k1J7sO60NFRwzT7xgEwOGq%2Be9qY92ZO%2Bx2YppQo9HZQgLznhih7mxOF5v4CUtq6jsdvgkkuoh3NlNxsLAVMO2%2FXXrCHFFKTMra%2BBzU3BhLSWkAjgY1upjUWmaRm75PnrFVXue41CM8kOIsJFj8l9jjUVFKPQ8%2FI25Ns29i7nYzFND6VIZCSMz3BotqYN48lhm1uHE6k%2BfQqOKTPat3tlU8NRZSAbma1oe8C7nAAOd5lfJ587zZXLzfyO7muTXpBp8QnjjBkSbRMvbp8FbnC9oqfUx9q7a7NwYwdXE8un65Kn0906cOn3q2ZdXHvqkNDsue5M2jWB6LJcS5OjwowV10NbYMZntb0Jkz3rDTwgrfaptI5M9pJs22yJtqtoxlBt11OVtMzdr1C2CDraPyXNqYcqVm2GnwyrTcHA%2FHmuZmvQo4qm9skQeUj5JwnXBqnFnn2%2BezzUa1zGEva4iGi2UiT8V7vs3Uxi3GTpP6mGrxOaTj2OILY1XvJ2eW%2BCJTEDegCvUQIEgAjEhh2IAM0IGXdlbNqYio2lSbLnacgOLieACyy5Y4ouUnwVGLk6R75upsKnhKLaTCT9pxJmXEDMRyFtF8xmzvNk3M6apUjbhQwE4KXEaISoikmMC95m5ACht2WkqGdW1A10RKdIFEr1MO%2BoBo0TcakjoZt8Ut9rgriJhVNyKNPtX0AG1qgMVag7TK6XHO0HQ97hyC63q8jUYyfurt0v0FBxUtzRf3f2diKNPJVqipFmviHEf2uawzS3SuCpGmScJcpGx2M6rLwr6mW6icAK6UFwLqCqGVlJuXLKXBhbZ2cXkcOvEjknDJ4fU68ORRIjBANLY1EDhHnwCmM7lbG8lmts5opMFr6mNT%2BfBdUZqPLOTJc2Fx21QxthLjoPmryat1S6kQw2%2BTFc11V5c6YmwnTwXJKbfLOlVFUi1TokQQVm7QtyZLETHNJS55Ejm31KRqGkXNa77PXpPPouyEZVurg0d1ZxG%2BmDDSHdmQ4m7x7pGgBHOwXv%2Bzsu6O2%2FyODVQV7kcqWL1DkAvagCvUCBAoTAmxIA7EAXcBRz1GN%2B85o9Ss8stsHLyReNXJI9y2bRpsDctNgLWhgMDMGjRs6wvisufJP95%2Bp6nhpdC3h6lYuJBMCwbAEmeKiMq%2FdKlGFUyzRbXe8Oc%2FI0TNMAX5Gblb7pSM5eHFUlfqabPHVVFV1MGCdXkw2DaRJHy1RJ%2BRSj5lZtFxdJJvqJPDSBoFybnI1tJcF1lLmtqvqZWOHNzZeIEkQePXRNqMQ5asLAVxUWSM5U2wIZOKTi%2Bo7KePpVC05HZXECCRIBnks3HlNo0hKKfIVsxfX9XUXxyLvwOw8wqxO3yKQB1OeMBTJclpmXicR3g1pIy8ovbQ8evkkpJ9jVRpWyeGwhcZNzzTUbM5TLxoRwlRJtKyU7HLLfgo6jAVzDTzQijy3e6iKuKeGHIW5Xgn3XEcD6DTivoNHNY4JvlPj1LnieSFXyjWdVGLwrmVsoqNHv5YAcLggnhHzUQl4GZOHT9aMsmJ7eTzlwX0R5pXqBMRUqBAAkCJsQAdgQB3u4mxQCK9TW4Ywjwh4K8T2lq014cfzf2O%2FT4WveZ6XsyjPeItPd8tV884s6Jyrg0u1DbWngFKltI2tku%2BdY8vxRLLMEojDBDU6qeXy2Pe%2BgYUmi%2FHSf5o4RNthQVal3JJG4stbtWhAalTofJQ22UkEDhlk26k%2FitYxuJL6g31iHNGVxBmXCIbAtN5vpZNUuR1aZKiXXzEG%2FdgEQOANzJ62VpvuS67Ei5TKXNAkDfVAWTyJFJMr1Kw94HglKS%2FeiUovozLxeMLhlabnU8lkm31NlFLkhgsHEEreiJzs2MPRhNR7mLYYslJwTVAmV3sdmEEZeMrDarNE1Q1Wl8lLXcEzyH2jYqrhsVRqMcC0gzTjuy0iQT1DtOEL6H2XjhnwSjJc%2BZObLODTXQtM27TxmEe2l9VVyw9trDUweLSAbhENNLTZ05crsRLL4kHRxLgvfOIDUCBFOqmAFAibEAdJuzu3VxUuZlDWFvv5u%2FMmGwIOl%2FFcWr1uPAql1fkb4cLm7PXdj7IYC0l2YtMuaILZgWIibL5Sed7uh6Mm6o6hlFugAA5Dh%2BSuVS6HNb7kvown4rFaa5ehW%2FgcUknj5DcThXSXUQUUBMF0ExaOel%2FNdC02PcoynTdcV501z%2BZG99UiXZCAS7mNOWq0%2FDQUE5T8108uotzvhCGE172h5TwlUvZySl73R%2BV%2BvmLxfQCWidZ6wQuZwjGVbrXnVfoaW6GfRYBJcSDYDKYt04a6rZ4sUYbt%2FDuuH2%2F5JUpN1Q%2FYCS3N3gSIgxI1Epfho73BT95Wujq16%2Feh73V1wQoUsxieBPPQTHzWenxvNLa3XD7X05HKW1WRdhJcG54M6ZT5cVp%2BEjLIob%2BfLa%2F4h4lK6%2FUFi6fZMLi6B%2FaGWZIEC9zfTxTyaF48e6%2Bnmqv4c9fQcJ75UkZ9emx7zSZVuKYqWYT3XAOiJ1hwPmiGhhOe1T7J%2Fu%2Bavz8mjRTlFbmu9dSOC2Q0OyioZvMsIMt8%2FH06qFpoSyeGp%2Bf8AhfFfn8fl6inmlV1%2BppMwrQ2Q6QIBtGsx8iplihscoyuq7V1v%2BBnud00FYER8hMZ9ASClPHymNS4oeoxZ5oNMIsA9shYVasuzg%2FanswPwr3wJY5jpgTAJbr4OK9P2TlcdQo9nYsvOM8jw2HvPJfVJHCWSmIDUQIp1UwAoEdVudu42v9ZWns7hrQXAuNu9I0A%2BPlfzddrXh92HU6sGDct0uh6bW2jRw9IEw1rWgNboYFgAvntk806XLPRhjI7r7zsxFV9NrHCLh3BwBieh0MG6rUaGWFRlJ9RTXFo7em5ZJ7ehytBMyh5W%2BFwFDA8pUfAYSeq1SvuSEbVd0tEGGk28pXRHLlu7XFf4Yt8dOavj4k7V%2FVlLGbW7OAb8u6DcmOV1n%2BKyqoKn8VH7o1hp9%2FK%2BpbGKPQ3kyG%2FiFqtXkkuafN8qL%2BqMvDRCtVm5%2FL5LLNPdzLr8voOKrhFXEYs5QIsLgQJ9dVhPUTlFQ7L0X1qzWONXZOhjy4uvcGCcrQZIB1i9iLhbR1Wa%2FeavzqN%2FNK%2FuTLEl%2FwAgnV3MdIPSIB16ELnjlyYpbo%2FRP6plbVJUwNbaGQZmmCLyQD6StI5pQe6HD%2BCf1VAse50zm8RtV2V9PMJqS4NLKZibB0EHII0iOK1w5MkYOKra3bVKr%2BXH5dDq8OKal5er%2FpmlsypUEOcWF2QMc7sqQkNEAQGQLADwAHAK56uduXHKr92PTy6GE4xfC%2Br%2FAIm3QrOEHu2mIawDvRJgCOAWcdRki001xdVGPer4quxg4J%2F8sOahIi3kGj5BXLJKcdrr8kl9EiUkhuMLP%2FFtQyTXKt1cMVDuMyOOqTt2mAOobQs8jqNIpGJtpuak9tpcC0SJEkWtxWWKbjNP1NlGzwrG4E0Kj6JdmLDEw4A21AdeF9ziyLJFTXc81x2ugDirEAqFMCrVQICgR6nu4w9iwsaB3AWtmdQIEr5nVL9rK33PXxNbUS2ps9%2BSpnJq5nd1tu4ItltMqMWaClGuK%2FU68bT4Nj2W7qVnOqV6xNJrBkAIiftOJgweFzovQnhjq17skorq%2Ft6epyarOoJR6tnouIwJZle14dTggwLySIMzpYjzXBqdCsMFkhLdF9%2F66nJDLutNUy23ZwgZngOOgt%2BiuiPsqNLxJpSfRf0%2BfyM3n8lwCo4Mmo5hdBAnna0fP4Llw%2Bz5S1EsMpU0r6Wu3w8zSWWoKSQV%2BzzBLXgxwjlw1XTP2VJRcsc067V%2FNkLPzTQP6E59Mua8AwYGWbiY4qMPs%2BeXB4ql58V5et9%2FgU8qjOmilU2aHU%2B0JuDER1iZXEtC5ab8Ru79K9a639jZZ9s9iRcxeC7OmXZpiOHlzXdqPZ602HxN19O3n%2BZhDLvnVFehhe0omqXFoAecpbfuEibHjCnB7MeowrLvq74r%2BZc8qhPZRV3cYMRh2YntQ1j8wALdMr3M1nm1PD7IvGpznV%2Bn3tFajLsyOCV0WsXQawAB4dqSRwiOp5%2FBYanSY8Kityl15Xaq9WTCbl2oFtXZJFJ1Y1IDWFxbl0ESbzyngt83smSxPKpdFdV%2Bl39gxaj3lCu5ylGMZh8U7D4gNdhw4OJZ2neDC6Peby638IT0XsvxEp5OF5ef8C82o8N0uX9DldzqZfle8kvc3M4mLk3JMW9Fz61qL2x6Hc21GmenbF2X2oPfjLHCZmevRLR6H8Wpe9VV2vrfqvI4c2bw%2BxcpYQmp2cxEiY5cY9FOPROeoeC%2Bl8%2FD09fiRLIlDcWDgCKgZm1EzHjbVdf%2FAE5x1Cw7%2Bqu6%2B1mfi3DdRGjgA6oRN2yQevu6TyKjBot%2BoljvpfNeTHLLUEydLBzLnPDWiQSf1ZVi0HiJznLbFd%2F66CeSuErYq2FLS3vBzXEAHx%2Bayz6GWKcKlujJpJ%2FH6%2BY45E0%2BOUDxOFh7WZtYvHMwo1Gi2aiOHd1rmvN10scMlxcqMbbuBDKnEkAd7QQZtEmVhrNN%2BGn4d3wn0r%2BJ04MjlGzx3f8AluIY1waT2c9oGwXy9wGaDcgNA9ei%2Bg9lO8La8%2BlnNqq3nMkr0jmBPKYFWogQFAj1PYe1WCA0giLRGn4L5jPimm3I9iNSXB1WHxLXaRYrzMkWikmjtNjP%2FqlQ9XafwtXs6Nr%2FAKflfx%2BiODMv20SLNofVinHEGZ%2FtTouKOv8A2MdPXdc3630L8H3txe2m76%2BkOrf969H2lf4zD8V%2F7Ixw%2FwB1L8%2FoWGj%2Bsn%2B6%2FwC4LpX%2FAJN%2F%2FX%2F%2BkQ3%2Bw%2FP7DYSmaZqOdYEzw5n81GkxS00s2XLwm%2BPm%2FwCIZJKe2MSez3xTZ1JHqTC09nT2aWF921%2BrFlVzZVx78lB9jZ8QOrhB8IIXPrI%2BFopryl9%2BP0NMS3ZV8PsWtpNzUnt%2FsT6SfwXfrFv084f5b%2B%2F2MsT2zT9QWHoAYfsv%2BVfn3mnj6p6X3NPGPdRT%2BYZHeRv1MrZmzi3ZzKNFosTlbIH71xPQcVx48eTUaBRXLfn6SOjJkX4hyl%2FXB57i61fDY5tPEOh9Qsa2mHB2ZtV3ZsygGxDjfoFzS9nypYmuX3%2Fmdzy45Yrj2PRa2N7fFYzA%2FZGEpRzmqcQ1%2FwD09kvoNqdp%2FI8a6Sf6nmHsOEbN2mDYgGfHsHyqIZZ3IZGHomNaTJ5%2B6DbzXxuul%2B1kvVnu9YJvyPSt2nQ2qeADT6By9H2NNRjll5V9zz9UrcUaAbFZ7uAZPy%2F%2FACV1KGzW5Mj6bb%2Fr5Mxu8aXqTqft2%2FwH5lXk%2FwDIQ%2F0P6iX90%2FiCwZ%2Buf%2Fi%2F3BYaN%2F23Ivj9UVk%2Fu0KgBUpvp9T85%2Baem2anBPBfNv639RyuElIrNzgsYTAa5sDwPPzXDF51PHhnwoyjx%2BZo9rTku6LuJwzjVa4Cwy3twN16Wp0mSeqhliuFX6MxhNKDTMbeBwNYt45QfmF5Pth%2F2n8l9zq0yfh36niftRYG4ml%2FdmTw986evyXpexv7qS9fsRqnbTORK9c5gLymIrVEADQInSeQZBIPMGD6hDSapjTa5R126m1K4zd8ubIEOudOBNxaF4%2FtDBi4pU%2FQ9LRylJPc7PZd0McamzcS6DLXvEam1Om78VOnwVocsV3v6InUJLUw%2FL6stYXDs%2BiNrwcxcIuQCM8aHoFwx0WKOkjmkvetc%2Bm7y%2BA5Tl4zxrpX2Nrarj9IoiNY%2BD5PwXZ7SjL8Zhpd1%2Bklf6HNgrwpf12LjXf1kj%2Fl%2FwDcF1xf%2FcX%2FAKPujJ%2F3P5g9n4g1HVWOuAY4aSR%2BCy0OeeeebFkdpP8AS2vsVlgoKMkVnVwzCh8gBpmToIcTJXLCbXs6Eo9d3H%2B5l7bzNBtrVmvw2dpBa4McDwIdBB9IXZ7Wqeik13r6ojAnHLT7WGe%2F60MP2qR%2BBH4EreUv7Qsb6OD%2Bq%2FiQl7jfkwbcQO0rtH7unT%2BIqH5QnF%2FtcsV2jFf%2Bw3H3Yvzb%2BxyeN2qamxu2oPqMJeWhzMweIxTmOiL8CscEMmPRJd%2BvHq77eh0xUfxVOq9fh6nlu6mIrYvbmE7UVoDzldWNRzntw7X1Wkl%2FVoMcJ6rsw4mopzdvr8DLNqLbUFS6cdz17ZeHwg2vXrs2hSfXqs7F2EDqeZvZinNg7NI7NxiLZnLZR5s53NuKic1uHgTSbt6lGletlH9lzKhZ%2FwBJCogHu1RcKVMvBnIwGWx9kcIEHyXxWqjJTk2uLZ70mqpHcbCA7KvH3B%2Fteu32d%2F8AH1H%2Bn7SODP8Avw%2BP8DWrv%2Bqz8XNYPU%2F%2BRXrZ8i%2FDeN3kor5v%2BZzRXv7fKxVP%2FUN%2FgPzKnI%2F%2B4QX%2BV%2FVgv7p%2FEFgmnt6nn8SFz6KDWvyv4%2FVF5H%2ByiVn0CGmq10EE2A6xP6C4p6eUMT1WOVNN9F61d%2FyNFJOWxotYokii%2BIJc0HwNz8viu%2FUt5I6fNVSco38Hy%2FoZwpOce1MWLrkVmNBMHLabG5S1eecdbCCbr3eO3VihFPG2Z%2B3mTU%2Fwj8V5%2FthJ6n1pfc30z9w8r9oe778R2RogFzHOa6SGwx0Sb3IDmjSfeKr2Vq44dyyPh8%2FmbajG5pNHnm0NnVaJLarC0gxOrTrBB6weq%2Bix5YZFcWcMoOPUoPWpBXegASBDtQB6PuxsiKDM1iZcYOsyR5xGi%2Bd12ovK6%2BB6%2Bnjsgjs9gbQrYTN2UEPjMxwJbbjYgg9fyCwwa%2BeF%2B78mVlwxy%2FvENu7z4muQ17WhjTIawEdJdJJJ15C%2BivVaqWqjtlwvIvT6bHi5XU0cFv5WY0NIY6AAHEHN%2Fig3WkPaeohDbSfqzOXs%2FHJ2rRY2bvI%2FOahLS9wgzMQSNACOQXBj1ebHmlm4cnxz07eTXkGTSxcVHsW8Pt51NznNy943mSNSefVGDXZcM5Tglcutp%2FHz9TOWmU0k74KuI2xmomh3Mt%2BBJuSYMmIus1qsiwLBS2p33vrfW%2FsaRwJZPE5sFT3kc2g2g4U4AgRMgA93jGkcF0y1mWeHwXW34c%2FX7A9LHxHNWUMRv252JblyB1NrgO67Jcfa70k8YBC6Xqc7lHO0uOO%2FKf5jjo8ag4O%2BTI2p7THUalXs206lWsGioIflZlaWiCHSDDtL6cF1aaWdynlaS3V%2BnHHP1M54cVRhb46fzMfYPtLxGzsJToAUXsaXFssqOqE1HuqEuPaAaudw9ePfDLOXuwSVeZjmw4o%2B9Nu35FLantexT8TQxLaeGLqLKzWTTqgDtywOkdrJMUmxBjvHXh0wcq944sihfuX%2BZymzN6K9HaB2ixtM1jUq1SHBxp5q4eHiA4GPrHR3uSdkUdPsr2rY6liK9VlLCB%2BKqU3VMzaoY1zWNpAj63uiACZJ4%2BCHKlYKN8HqdDb2JxFMMrtpBwMk0g4CROmZxtwXy2v1886eOlt6%2Bv1%2Bx6sdNDE7Tdmrg8UWNcABDxBmZ0ItHiVx4dVPBCUY1UlT%2Flz6kzxqTV9iwMe8sawxAjnNud03r8zxRwuqVed8efP2I8KKk5E6mNe5weYBFhHnrc81eTW5smaOaVJrpX%2FL8xLFFRcQ1fatQggQLaiZ%2Bdl05va%2BolFxVL1X25Ijp4J2BwWPcwGIjiDe659J7QyYE1Hp5Pz9CsmJSfIq%2BOe5zXECGkFoGk9fgjN7Qy5skZyr3XaXYI4oxTS7kK%2B0JqNccodwHPKRw8SPVTl1k8mZZmlar4cc%2BZUcVQaXQDj6z3uDjlHAiDpBiL81jqs08%2BTxMnWq4%2Fpl44qKpGLiqRiRbW4jjxWON7WdCa7nI7w4FtWmQ5hAzza0G4kaxrdexpdS4SuLFkxKapnl%2BKpFji06tJB8l9JGSklJHkyi4umU6iokEgRYwOHNSoxg1c4DhxN9baSoyTUIuT7FQjukke3bKoAN0k2vzjivjMsnZ7DNai7KNGmTxAKzjm2ron8VYmrAY11v2dKf7tpW8dS1%2Fhj8hxj6v5mJjC8XFGj%2FAKTeHkuvHq%2FNR%2BRqorzfzMirvFXpEzRoxIA%2BrAPULqWya6R%2BSKeNeb%2BYVm9VYj9jR%2FyD8lDhBPpH%2Fag8Jeb%2BYw3krH91Q%2F0p%2FFHuL%2FCvkg8Neb%2BYenjazyM1Oj%2FpNUPPGPSMfkJwXm%2FmPWxgptnsaENufqmjzmLlOOeU3VL5EOHq%2Fmcd%2FTrjXzfR8MQXR%2BwZmjTU%2Fqy9fdWKuDjUH4l2%2FmaO1HveG9lhcK5xdHeoU7CCZM6aDxkQssGqUf36QanTSa4t%2FmcxW229rnNOGwUtJaf6uzUGCvRUrVo81xp0MNvO%2FwDjYP8A%2BsxOwol%2FT5F%2FouDMXj6PTS6jSp2e67FxQNNrgyn3mh1mD7QBXxmXM1J%2B7Hj%2FACo9eSvu%2FmbFCvrZkfwhTDNa5jH5IylH4km4ocm%2F5VK1H%2BWPyQOHxJsq9G%2F5QqWe%2FwDDH5ITiN9Kvo22tgpeo5%2Fdj8kHh8EaGIMe62ZM90KY6h9Nsfkhyh6sMa%2FRvoFfjPrtj8kRt%2BILtZPeDZ4HKFKzNvmMf9qL28cX8xn97l5WQ7ydl%2BXALgw9s4xtFjnEiOUgE9BOpibJYsTlLajeEdzOd2li%2B6atM9w37xiQbCeRuBrxXdDB7200a28M8iqOJuTJOpmfjxX1SVLg8Rld6YgaBGvurQLsQ1wMZO9NuIIHjquXWzUcTT7nTpIbsl%2BR7Jsx4gXm1yNPJfJZVyejI0aZBuueSERrG%2BqEmNFDEtBGq2hwWmc%2FtbCd06gaSL3IXdhlzZrF3wUMPSY2AToOJ1sLnmtZSk%2BRuy1Sc3lHHkspKQi1SrDQwB8ev4LNxJoobw4pjaJHd5wIvcaBdGlhKUyZOlbOXwWHuXwMxIiYPecRHTVejkl2IhFXZp4iuKcEk52XdAIBzC0CwOh09dVlGLkqrhmsmr%2BBye8FRj67nsEB0E8BOhIHAWB9V6mnTWNJnj6lJZHRSAWxgIkCJEi0t0kcRI0nRAHu%2B6FUOoUy0ktLQQSOYkW4Hh5L4rVJrLJPzZ7MqaTR0bWkhYJNoysIGCJQ4xSFbCC3y%2FNC45EyuGd61hx%2FBJLkvd7pZDI4K5RrmjOxhY%2Fr4KY9QGI%2BKNrY7BVnq2qGjmtpvbWqFoJHZu0uBJa0i%2FHX5jgt4bo%2B9XDOvGtqK9U5H92ILeIMZjcEiek%2BtxK3xydkzjuieTbcwL6NVzXkGSXBwEB0mSQ2TludF9NgyxyQuJ5GXHKDpmU9bGQNBJrbuY3sqhMaiJ5X%2FXouTWYvEgkdekmoydnaYHeRotMef5fq68TJopPk9PdFmpT2%2BOdzfmuZ6VlUhO260HNmiNBwM8whaaXSgpFSrvKzmPX5LVaKYboooY3bgcIBHwK3hpWuovESMp%2B19dItwHyC6lpiXmKuJ2%2BbS%2FQZROsfktY6S%2Bxi9TGPcubMxj6t8wDdJsZNhoD8QscuKMOK5N8c3NWuhr4XY5qB2d7HAAOtNhrA48NVzzzqD91D69SjtjY%2BRhIfOU5jMgQQQSY5CFvgz7nTXUJLiykcY2qw5jwGVxOUBwIDnHMOQiy3WNwfBEsikjm69UVHF4AbMCB0AE%2FBejCO2NM8nLNTk5IhlVmZPDZA9pqAuYHDOBYkcVM1Jxe3qVGty3dD1Hdbaf1hbTLRSyjK0C8C4d8%2FVfM6vHtjbu75PdaUoJnc4WqIBn4rzFwc0kXm1gRBT3Jrkz20V6Te8TeDeLW00%2BJ81lXPJo3xQ%2BJMiWuIjkG36XCq0n0FFeYUm2uqUrEhTpxToQPEYwMaSZgDT8lpB26GoWzAO3RUswEEAFzXRIzTYwbEQRHzut5YNv7x0Rw11KFDtRL6jQCSTYFunO5Hn1Wkox6Q6epqmug1VweM0GOR4HkQqinF0HQ5HezD5qZIEgRHGDz6Dh5yvW0UqkcmqipQOEevWPJYNBIRtUtBgkTr1ScU%2BpSk10BCu7MHEm3y4pbVVFKclJMs%2FwBKvGluVyfyWfgR7mv4mXYA7G1D9s%2FBWsUF2IebI%2B5B%2BIeftHysmoRXYl5JvuIV3az%2BvJGyPkLxJeZDM77x9SqpCt%2BZEtQIt4PaFSnGU2BkA3A8OI8llkwwn1N8WoyY%2BIvg0%2F8AinEQR3BIiQHSPCXR6hc%2F4HFd8mz12Vrt%2FX5lbD7crNd33uqNM52PMtcCNDyFhpyWstNja4VPs12MoamadydryZa2%2Ft44rKxrAxjSDFtQ0N0AgW4DWynT6bwrbdsrPqPEVJUjPa2F1HMOgCL0AXcBtk06jHt7uUQRNnLky6ZTg4vmzuxan3lfCO%2F2bvZ3QTY%2FAx%2BtF4OXQNPg7%2Fdlya1PeoXM9Y%2BfUrnekmg8NM1G7caYOYQdIkT5ahYSxSXAvCLDNqggXseJ9Vk4MXhh6G0m8%2Fj%2FADS2smWNhW40Hp5%2BStIlwoo7QIdlJdYGdbTexHKJ1WuOMldGkODNBaahIzA6QRE3sfDVb7ZKNM3vgHiNptf9WMzXDg4WfFib%2FJdCxNK%2BxMY1yBwjnPDhBaJtzF7g2lVKFUEqRTxwHekwLggjX8lvie0yk00ef7x4dgfNPSO8NIPgV7OKe5HlZse1mItjnJJDBlqQxZUALIgB8iAGLUANCYChIBwEAPCQD5EwCUWoAKEwHhAEKiAKrmIEJlVw0JCTjF9S1klHoyxT2lUHHx1WbwwZqtTNFnD7eqtjjHUrOWkxyNI62a6o2MLvY7n1gj8ZXHP2dE6oa2MjrdgbSqVRnyAsiQXGAYImIm68%2FLpY43TN%2FEU17p0FOoBLmmQecDLzsuWWJJgueGZ7394B1QSTrpPCCNDy%2Fmt4ryRr2IASS5pJbpEgjukggW%2FUK%2BnDQ74MP6c%2FOXPse8QTEWGURMCPM6kru8OG2kQp%2BY%2BK3lFBzRUaXMMEOBaQQdHMLZDrXueaIaZzZz5c8Yqzn9tbeD6ofQJb3YcYjPcmHD7QGnmV249P7m3Jz5ehwZM3vXAyKmerLiZItEcD14X0HitVUOCHeTkD2PQ%2FFVuJ2AmrQzHypDHDUgFCAGIQBEhAEYQA8IAcBAD5UwJwgCTQgB0AOgBFAA3MQBA00gBmmgCJYmBEsRYqO09n20q3aGmazezDR3HmSZMNyEmWxAEC0HS8rzvaGOLhdc%2BaOzSzal14Jb14%2Bu40qIc17nVHvaaZ1aXAUQYPJx15i%2FNabFjScmq4S5%2FUvJkyJpI0sBTqdnkxFRtJ7WmD2jXFzSYzkE%2FecGxbgspuD97GrXwN8c5ribo0NlbQdmdQqObnpiZgtztOjmgjoSQJWOXEqU4rhlwyc7ZdS897Ay5zBxFgJkEgSPXmoimaMwN7Mbh%2ByNJ1RpcZcGlri%2FTuzlFtYBPxhdumhPduS4OPPKG1p9Tz9rhx%2BC9M84mzEEGWmLQltvqVuroCzHmU6RO5k2pgECQDkIAZAESgYxCAGhACAQA4CAJBADhAh0AOEwFKQClADoASAIkIGMWIoCJYlQA30wgBUHljgWnKQdeXVKSTVMcW07R1m2NuUwxjXMpVXtvBGZglsAyDp0nSPFefgwSttNpfqd%2BfLBccNhcFvz9W4Vabc7f2bQMrY%2B6C0SLRrN72VS0XvJJ8d%2FMyjqeG%2B5kbb3lr1iA2q4Uy0d0Q0zxDi25v4cPE9MNPjjzXJlPPOXcxi4nUknS5J4k8epPqtjKyLmpkg0wHQIK0oAmCkMlKAGJQA0oAaUAJAClAClADygBSgB5QApQAgUAPKAHlMBSkApQApQAzigYIuSAgUARTAYIAI0IAmAgBygQIpiGQA4KAJAoAfMgBSgBSgYpQIaUAKUAKUAKUAPmQAsyAFmQA8oAWZACzIAWZACzIAWZACJQMgkBFxQBEoAZAE2lABMyYESUCIOKAGlAEggBwgB0AJADIAdACQAyAEEAJACQA6AEgBIASAEgYkCEgB0AMgBkAQKAGSAQQBMJgOgBigCLkAQQB%2F9k%3D&hash=7f21f30b5d4baba3317cc15e8b62930f)


quite tasty

Yeah we just call it fried mush and when I was little I was very confused

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 24, 2020, 03:46:54 PM

that's what my grandparents called it

my grandmother fried it for me many winter mornings.  Was good and warm after shoveling snow for the neighbors 4 or 4 hours and before walking 3 blocks to school

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 24, 2020, 04:44:40 PM

....uphill....both ways..... in 5 ft of snow

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2020, 04:45:37 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 24, 2020, 04:44:40 PM

....uphill....both ways..... in 5 ft of snow

Both ways.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 24, 2020, 04:47:30 PM

Damn straight gotta learn how to spin a yarn

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 24, 2020, 05:12:05 PM

it was uphill in the morning, downhill in the afternoon

plenty of snow

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 24, 2020, 05:22:36 PM

Shut up who's telling this story

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 25, 2020, 08:46:43 AM

See, all you people eat grits, you just didn't know it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 25, 2020, 09:05:43 AM

Into the wind both ways.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 25, 2020, 09:15:44 AM

While having to pee like a racehorse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 25, 2020, 09:45:35 AM

probably why I've never had an issue with peeing outdoors, especially in the fairway or the first cut of rough

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 25, 2020, 09:48:55 AM

One of the critical skills of being on a survey crew is the ability to pee on the side of the freeway without anyone noticing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 25, 2020, 09:52:43 AM

yup, did some surveying back in the 80's

check

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 25, 2020, 10:21:08 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 25, 2020, 09:45:35 AM

probably why I've never had an issue with peeing outdoors, especially in the fairway or the first cut of rough

What, trying to keep your ball dry? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 25, 2020, 10:41:25 AM

balls

trying to keep my balls dry

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 25, 2020, 10:47:04 AM

That being the case, don't piss into the wind.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 25, 2020, 10:48:58 AM

learned that walking back and forth to elementary school

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 25, 2020, 11:23:31 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 25, 2020, 10:47:04 AM

That being the case, don't piss into the wind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XdzEV13E7g

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 25, 2020, 11:26:01 AM

What about tugging on Superman's cape?  Would he take exception to that?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 25, 2020, 11:37:28 AM

Superman is hiding in his basement.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 25, 2020, 11:49:49 AM

ripped up his knee..........

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/12/9c/dc/129cdc17c7655e47ae22805ce7ed03cf.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 25, 2020, 11:54:57 AM

What about the Lone Ranger and Tonto?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 25, 2020, 11:56:52 AM

the Lone Ranger is wearing his mask

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 25, 2020, 12:21:44 PM

I have no idea what you yokels are bantering on about,cabin fever and scotch appear to be rearing their ugly heads

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 25, 2020, 12:27:19 PM

gonna be broasted chicken wings, broasted taters, and Budweiser for me about 5:30

Grim Reaper sauce on the wings

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 25, 2020, 12:53:17 PM

Sent the kids back to mom's house, hit the range to hit a bucket, and then was going to hit up my butcher to get the big slab o' beef short ribs for tomorrow...

...but during COVID apparently they don't open until 10. So I'll have to make another trip later. Maybe I can use it as an excuse to get some unhealthy drive through. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 25, 2020, 07:21:28 PM

I hear eggs are really good for breakfast.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 25, 2020, 07:24:40 PM

along with kegs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 25, 2020, 07:30:05 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/lS8mqXn.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 26, 2020, 01:32:38 AM

I could say that If I had the guts to stand up to the egg lobby, I'd stop eating them.

Except I don't eat eggs for breakfast, for cholesterol reasons.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 26, 2020, 01:35:46 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 25, 2020, 07:30:05 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/lS8mqXn.jpg)

Unusual view of Central Park.  Being from the north looking south.
Is that ice in the East River?
I don't know if it ices over in the winter.  Upriver 60 miles, the Hudson certainly does.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 26, 2020, 01:41:17 AM

Snow in Manhattan is nasty.  Golashes make perfect sense when you spend a minute in NYC in snow.  Dirty filthy mess.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 26, 2020, 06:04:05 AM

It may be ice on the shoreline.  This is from 1931.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 26, 2020, 10:09:42 AM

Quote from: CWSooner on November 26, 2020, 01:32:38 AM

I could say that If I had the guts to stand up to the egg lobby, I'd stop eating them.

Except I don't eat eggs for breakfast, for cholesterol reasons.

I eat 20 MG of Simvastatin for lunch so I can eat whatever I like for breakfast

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 26, 2020, 10:21:40 AM

The correlation between cholesterol in the diet and cholesterol levels in the blood is rather dubious from what I've seen.

In a normal human, 70% of the cholesterol we need is generated by our bodies from other things, only 30% comes from diet.  That can get out of whack, and if you cut the dietary component to zero, your body may compensate by making more, and too much, potentially.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 26, 2020, 10:23:49 AM

probably a reason my doc didn't suggest I change diet and exercise

or he just thinks I'm a stubborn old man that would be good at healthy change in my lifestyle 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 26, 2020, 10:31:27 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 26, 2020, 10:09:42 AM

I eat 20 MG of Simvastatin for lunch so I can eat whatever I like for breakfast

I'm on the same stuff,only I hardly take them,trying to start every other day.Though anything that might thin blood is supposedly good at combating Covid

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 26, 2020, 10:33:47 AM

There is some evidence that dietary iron is bad for males and post menopausal women.  It makes some sense to me.  Dietary iron is colocated, usually, with saturated fat and cholesterol.  So, folks were told to avoid cholesterol unduly, I think, when perhaps iron was the real culprit.

Iron has the ability to spawn free radicals which can be very damaging to tissues like blood vessels.  Usually it's carried by various and sundry things in the body so that doesn't happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 26, 2020, 10:33:57 AM

I've thought about taking less, but the doc seems to like the results and it's the lowest dose they prescribe.

zero co-pay at the Pharmacy, so it don't cost nuttin

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 26, 2020, 10:34:03 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 26, 2020, 10:21:40 AM

The correlation between cholesterol in the diet and cholesterol levels in the blood is rather dubious from what I've seen.

In a normal human, 70% of the cholesterol we need is generated by our bodies from other things, only 30% comes from diet.  That can get out of whack, and if you cut the dietary component to zero, your body may compensate by making more, and too much, potentially.

Well then I'm glad I hardly take statins then - I guess.However there are indications that statins could cause memory problems - as the brain is 30% fat.So I do take fish oil

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 26, 2020, 10:34:53 AM

I am speaking rather speculatively, not with any intent to provide firm guidance.  I'd defer to any MD.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 26, 2020, 10:35:14 AM

so THAT's why I can't remember shit!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 26, 2020, 12:16:33 PM

I see we've reached the AARP/geriatric portion of the thread. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 26, 2020, 12:30:48 PM

I don't feel old,I don't feel anything until noon-then it's time for my nap - Bob Hope

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 26, 2020, 12:32:45 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 26, 2020, 10:34:53 AM

I am speaking rather speculatively, not with any intent to provide firm guidance.  I'd defer to any MD.

Well crap there goes my supplemental plan,how about investments :111:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 26, 2020, 12:37:40 PM

I take 2 flintstones vitamins every few days.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 26, 2020, 12:41:12 PM

(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shutupandtakemymoney.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2020%2F08%2Fflintstone-vitamins-coronavirus-meme.jpg&hash=4dad9d4c7ce1a7b537a181e3c156addb)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 26, 2020, 12:43:02 PM

Prolly snuck a Mr Slately in there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 26, 2020, 12:46:49 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/3WVkipT.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/SJX4MOX.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/E3hJpDx.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/UpuQKiR.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 27, 2020, 02:04:45 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/PrlJSu4.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 27, 2020, 03:35:13 PM

(https://www.sltrib.com/resizer/72FHDF3vbKTSVGKDX-XZ2mw_yPs=/0x600/smart/filters:quality(86)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/sltrib/43Z42PUNVZB5LJNJY32HJ5HA3Q.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 28, 2020, 05:45:06 AM

Yesterday here was very warm (70s) and the park was so crowded with folks we walked out of it and into a residential area where there were fewer people.  Most folks in the park had no mask and it was hard to maintain distances.

Monday's low is supposed to be 27°F, our first night below freezing, with a scant possibility of snow in the northern 'burbs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 28, 2020, 06:08:37 AM

https://www.npr.org/2020/11/24/938736955/how-tall-is-mount-everest-hint-its-changing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 28, 2020, 06:10:44 AM

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3775168/

Although researchers have made tremendous gains in understanding cardiovascular disease (CVD) over the past several decades, traditionally recognized risk factors such as cholesterol levels, blood pressure, smoking, obesity, and sedentary lifestyle only account for 50% of the incidence of heart disease. It is clear that aggressive approaches to correct elevated cholesterol levels and recommendations for modifying other coronary risk factors are not enough. With this in mind, recent researches have taken a sharp turn to identify other casual factors such as chronic infections and elevated iron levels. Iron is a key component in catalyzing the production of reactive radicals and causing oxidative stress and lipid peroxidation.[1 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3775168/#ref1),2 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3775168/#ref2),3 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3775168/#ref3),4 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3775168/#ref4)] Oxidative stress and lipid peroxidation have been linked to several pathologies, including atherosclerosis.[5 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3775168/#ref5),6 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3775168/#ref6),7 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3775168/#ref7)]

Excessive iron has been proposed to be a potent risk factor for coronary heart disease (CHD), especially for acute myocardial infarction (AMI).[8 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3775168/#ref8),9 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3775168/#ref9),10 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3775168/#ref10)] Supporting evidence comes from in vitro lipid peroxidation and lipoprotein modification studies,[11 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3775168/#ref11),12 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3775168/#ref12)] cholesterol-fed iron-overloaded animal models,[13 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3775168/#ref13),14 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3775168/#ref14)] and analyses of the composition of human atherosclerotic lesions,[15 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3775168/#ref15),16 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3775168/#ref16)] although there is conflicting evidence regarding the relationship between iron and CVD.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 28, 2020, 06:13:30 AM

They determined that waste circumference had a stronger correlation with coronary heart disease than Ferritin or iron levels.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 28, 2020, 06:32:41 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 28, 2020, 06:13:30 AM

They determined that waste circumference had a stronger correlation with coronary heart disease than Ferritin or iron levels.

"I crap bigger than you" just not as intimidating as it used to be

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 28, 2020, 07:36:17 AM

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2021-ford-mustang-mach-e-ev-suv-first-ride-review/?sm_id=organic_fb_AMAG_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR18Cuc_DMHKd29fyC0j_HLE1Cb3S17SRmiBcBFwqOssGlIzngAbiaCF3oo


I am not sure Ford made the right call calling this a "Mustang".  On the one hand, it associates the car with a very successful brand name.  On the other, it isn't "like" Mustangs of yore, except the ill fated Mustang II perhaps in ways.

Ford messed up the Thunderbird, IMHO, back in the day.

Either way, the EVs are coming, and I suspect many of us will own one before we drive our last mile.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 28, 2020, 09:12:08 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 28, 2020, 06:08:37 AM

https://www.npr.org/2020/11/24/938736955/how-tall-is-mount-everest-hint-its-changing

I've read it gets higher a lttle each year,but I heard that in an Urban to Austin Thread

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 28, 2020, 10:00:40 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 28, 2020, 07:36:17 AM

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2021-ford-mustang-mach-e-ev-suv-first-ride-review/?sm_id=organic_fb_AMAG_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR18Cuc_DMHKd29fyC0j_HLE1Cb3S17SRmiBcBFwqOssGlIzngAbiaCF3oo


I am not sure Ford made the right call calling this a "Mustang".  On the one hand, it associates the car with a very successful brand name.  On the other, it isn't "like" Mustangs of yore, except the ill fated Mustang II perhaps in ways.

Ford messed up the Thunderbird, IMHO, back in the day.

Either way, the EVs are coming, and I suspect many of us will own one before we drive our last mile.

Wow that thing is ugly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 28, 2020, 01:11:26 PM

https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/the-biocentric-universe-theory-life-creates-time-space-and-the-cosmos-itself

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 28, 2020, 01:26:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 28, 2020, 07:36:17 AM

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2021-ford-mustang-mach-e-ev-suv-first-ride-review/?sm_id=organic_fb_AMAG_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR18Cuc_DMHKd29fyC0j_HLE1Cb3S17SRmiBcBFwqOssGlIzngAbiaCF3oo


I am not sure Ford made the right call calling this a "Mustang".  On the one hand, it associates the car with a very successful brand name.  On the other, it isn't "like" Mustangs of yore, except the ill fated Mustang II perhaps in ways.

Ford messed up the Thunderbird, IMHO, back in the day.

Either way, the EVs are coming, and I suspect many of us will own one before we drive our last mile.

Just like a 4-door Thunderbird was not a Thunderbird, a 4-door Mustang is not a Mustang.
IMO, Ford messed up the Thunderbird twice--in 1958 ,when it went to 4 seats, then again in 1967 when it went to 4 doors.
The guy at Ford most responsible for the first mess-up was this fellow.

(https://i.imgur.com/E8NwCus.png)
When I teach the Vietnam War, I ask this question.

Would you trust the guy who changed this . . .

(https://i.imgur.com/SC9c7Kc.png)

into this . . .

(https://i.imgur.com/bt7rpjj.png)

to run a war?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 28, 2020, 01:28:48 PM

https://earthsky.org/astronomy-essentials/great-jupiter-saturn-conjunction-dec-21-2020

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 28, 2020, 03:06:55 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 28, 2020, 06:13:30 AM

They determined that waste circumference had a stronger correlation with coronary heart disease than Ferritin or iron levels.

I've heard that's a huge thing... For men, keeping your waist <40" is the key, moreso than pretty much anything else. 

I'm obese per BMI, but at 6'5" I have a 38" waist, so I figure I'm still fine. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 29, 2020, 01:38:41 PM

The SEC is both normal and weird this year.  The normal is:

Bama is very good, Vandy is very bad.

Florida and A&M look to be pretty good, and Georgia now might be "good".

A few teams like Auburn might be mediocre, even LSU.  UK is "OK" for UK.  Everyone else would love to be mediocre.  Tennessee is bordering on epically bad.  USCe fired their coach and played hard last night but has too many injuries.  I thought the Vols might well improve to "pretty good" or at least good this year.  

Really good teams like Bama, Ohio State, Clemson dispense quickly with most opponents, they might have one bad game like OSU did with IU, but in the main, it's over by the half or earlier and they win 40 something to 10 something.

Notre Dame handled UNC yesterday after hanging around.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 29, 2020, 08:20:38 PM

Incidentally, I got some excellent feedback on my book from CWS who is a Civil War maven.  I really appreciate his taking his limited time to review and respond.  I have complete Book Two and started on Book Three, where I throw history to the winds to get into a what if scenario of major proportions.

As it happens, if the South "wins", they lose.  I'm still working on that aspect of it.

Alternate history.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 29, 2020, 10:01:16 PM

3rd book might not be popular below the Mason/Dixon

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 29, 2020, 11:12:27 PM

It is not a best seller.

Yet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 29, 2020, 11:13:02 PM

Slavery was bad.

You read it here first.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 29, 2020, 11:32:27 PM

I concur.  Slavery was bad.

Still is, because it still exists.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 30, 2020, 12:47:19 PM

Not sure if anyone has read alternate history by Harry Turtledove.

I read one called The Guns of the South, which ended up being a sci-fi version of alternate history. A bunch of post-apartheid South Africans discover time travel, and decide that if they can just get the American Civil War to go the opposite direction, their own failed subjugation of blacks in South Africa won't have to end--so they supply the south with AK-47's. There's a lot more to it, and I realize that sounds ridiculous, but it's not a bad read.

A much better (and less fantastic) one was Ruled Brittania. Premise is that after the Spanish (rather than the English) wins the war in the late 1500's and conquers Britain. The story comes down to a young playwright who is tasked with writing a play that will cause the English to rise up and take back their nation from the Spanish... I'm sure you can imagine which young playwright is the star of the show lol...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 30, 2020, 12:54:01 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 30, 2020, 12:47:19 PM

Not sure if anyone has read alternate history by Harry Turtledove.

I read one called The Guns of the South, which ended up being a sci-fi version of alternate history. A bunch of post-apartheid South Africans discover time travel, and decide that if they can just get the American Civil War to go the opposite direction, their own failed subjugation of blacks in South Africa won't have to end--so they supply the south with AK-47's. There's a lot more to it, and I realize that sounds ridiculous, but it's not a bad read.

A much better (and less fantastic) one was Ruled Brittania. Premise is that after the Spanish (rather than the English) wins the war in the late 1500's and conquers Britain. The story comes down to a young playwright who is tasked with writing a play that will cause the English to rise up and take back their nation from the Spanish... I'm sure you can imagine which young playwright is the star of the show lol...

Read that in middle school. 

He did some follow ups that were kinda interesting, but they sidestepped the AK-47s.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2020, 01:01:23 PM

Yeah, I got into alternative history a bit, and then more into history and historical fiction.  It's a good way to learn history enjoyably with well done historical fiction.

I'm finding the "AH" stuff allows me to make up almost whatever I want as time progresses.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 30, 2020, 04:03:22 PM

in completely "other" news................

PORT CLINTON - Even as fishing in the “Walleye Capital of World” has certainly been living up to its name over the past two years, experts are projecting it could be on the verge of getting even better.

That capital, of course, is none other than Lake Erie, or even more specifically, its western basin, where the walleye population is reaching what scientists have described as “unprecedented” heights and is leading to incredible catch rates for anglers.

“Walleye fishing has never been better,” said Travis Hartman, a biologist with the Ohio Department of Natural Resources’ Division of Wildlife, about western Lake Erie.


Trawl surveys in western Lake Erie have documented enormous walleye hatches in 2015, 2018, 2019 and 2020.

Although 2020 is the smallest of those four examples, it is still considered another great hatch.

“Prior to 2015, I’d have been doing jumping jacks over our catches this year for young-of-year walleyes,” Hartman said. “We are in an incredible period of production.”


https://www.portclintonnewsherald.com/story/news/2020/11/09/walleye-hatches-leading-unprecedented-growth-phenomenal-fishing-lake-erie/6185408002/ (https://www.portclintonnewsherald.com/story/news/2020/11/09/walleye-hatches-leading-unprecedented-growth-phenomenal-fishing-lake-erie/6185408002/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2020, 05:00:29 PM

Fantasy baseball camp has been cancelled.  I guess I'm not surprised but I am bummed.  Not many years left in these legs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 30, 2020, 05:01:32 PM

mmmm walleye

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 30, 2020, 06:26:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 28, 2020, 07:36:17 AM

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2021-ford-mustang-mach-e-ev-suv-first-ride-review/?sm_id=organic_fb_AMAG_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR18Cuc_DMHKd29fyC0j_HLE1Cb3S17SRmiBcBFwqOssGlIzngAbiaCF3oo


I am not sure Ford made the right call calling this a "Mustang".  On the one hand, it associates the car with a very successful brand name.  On the other, it isn't "like" Mustangs of yore, except the ill fated Mustang II perhaps in ways.

Ford messed up the Thunderbird, IMHO, back in the day.

Either way, the EVs are coming, and I suspect many of us will own one before we drive our last mile.

I was at a Halloween party last month and one of the Ford engineers drove one to the party that she had just picked up in Detroit earlier that day. A couple of friends and I went out to investigate. It had some pretty nice features, but was wrong in so many ways. As a Mustang guy that grew up with a 1964 1/2 Mustang and a couple since then, I told her that while that car was nice and had some nice features, calling something that looked like a station wagon a Mustang was simply wrong. She stated that they were associating it to the Mustang as far as driving experience.  I said, that may be but it does NOT look like a Mustang. We agreed to disagree and went back into the party and drank more beer. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 30, 2020, 06:29:26 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 30, 2020, 04:03:22 PM

in completely "other" news................

PORT CLINTON - Even as fishing in the “Walleye Capital of World” has certainly been living up to its name over the past two years, experts are projecting it could be on the verge of getting even better.

That capital, of course, is none other than Lake Erie, or even more specifically, its western basin, where the walleye population is reaching what scientists have described as “unprecedented” heights and is leading to incredible catch rates for anglers.

“Walleye fishing has never been better,” said Travis Hartman, a biologist with the Ohio Department of Natural Resources’ Division of Wildlife, about western Lake Erie.


Trawl surveys in western Lake Erie have documented enormous walleye hatches in 2015, 2018, 2019 and 2020.

Although 2020 is the smallest of those four examples, it is still considered another great hatch.

“Prior to 2015, I’d have been doing jumping jacks over our catches this year for young-of-year walleyes,” Hartman said. “We are in an incredible period of production.”


https://www.portclintonnewsherald.com/story/news/2020/11/09/walleye-hatches-leading-unprecedented-growth-phenomenal-fishing-lake-erie/6185408002/ (https://www.portclintonnewsherald.com/story/news/2020/11/09/walleye-hatches-leading-unprecedented-growth-phenomenal-fishing-lake-erie/6185408002/)

That reminds me, I have some Walleye in the freezer that I need to get cooked up. Sounds like dinner in the next couple of days. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 30, 2020, 06:33:36 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 30, 2020, 06:26:37 PM

She stated that they were associating it to the Mustang as far as driving experience.  I said, that may be but it does NOT look like a Mustang. We agreed to disagree and went back into the party and drank more beer.

as you well know... she and Ford are horribly wrong here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2020, 06:37:13 PM

I think so.  They could call it a Fairlane or something, fine with me, same car.

It may be a fine car, but it isn't a pony.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2020, 06:39:01 PM

We have snow in the forecast for this evening and cold Ts move into the area and push off the rain.

This is our first freeze of the year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 30, 2020, 06:39:26 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 30, 2020, 06:26:37 PM

I was at a Halloween party last month and one of the Ford engineers drove one to the party that she had just picked up in Detroit earlier that day. A couple of friends and I went out to investigate. It had some pretty nice features, but was wrong in so many ways. As a Mustang guy that grew up with a 1964 1/2 Mustang and a couple since then, I told her that while that car was nice and had some nice features, calling something that looked like a station wagon a Mustang was simply wrong. She stated that they were associating it to the Mustang as far as driving experience.  I said, that may be but it does NOT look like a Mustang. We agreed to disagree and went back into the party and drank more beer.

Agreed. If you want to make an electric Mustang, make an electric Mustang.

Don't make a 4-door crossover and call it a Mustang.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 30, 2020, 06:39:47 PM

bummer about the baseball camp, Cincy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 30, 2020, 06:40:30 PM

There are two competing marketing ideas here-- one is using a strong, premier brand as an umbrella to create a halo effect for less desirable sub-brands under it.

And the other is diluting a strong, premier brand and weakening it by associating it with lesser products.

It's pretty obvious to me which direction this one is going.

Whether or not this is a "nice" vehicle is irrelevant-- it's clearly an inferior product with respect to the intent of the Mustang brand.  And it will only serve to weaken the brand by association.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2020, 07:20:46 PM

One of our favorite dining places is opening a new restaurant up the street, and has been so busy we have not been able to dine there (the old place, Cafe Intermezzo).

https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2020/11/30/saints-council-colony-square-william-pitts.html?fbclid=IwAR0WPQN5RVcW6z5jyWvt0-QXnuwOfhddSrXjjmuZt_15VFBWS8CI4unMIls

This is good news, for us anyway, and a sign everything isn't collapsing.  We have had a lot of closures.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 30, 2020, 07:21:36 PM

good news is scare

that's good news

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2020, 07:28:26 PM

Colony Square was built 52 years back when this area was a dump.  It was an attempt at a "mini-city", and only partly worked, but they have redone it, still under construction, and it might turn out to be an neat place.

https://colonysquare.com/reimagined/

The arts center is across the street.  If you ever visit the ATL, midtown is the place to stay, subway link to the airport etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 30, 2020, 07:58:18 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 30, 2020, 06:26:37 PM

I was at a Halloween party last month and one of the Ford engineers drove one to the party that she had just picked up in Detroit earlier that day. A couple of friends and I went out to investigate. It had some pretty nice features, but was wrong in so many ways. As a Mustang guy that grew up with a 1964 1/2 Mustang and a couple since then, I told her that while that car was nice and had some nice features, calling something that looked like a station wagon a Mustang was simply wrong. She stated that they were associating it to the Mustang as far as driving experience.  I said, that may be but it does NOT look like a Mustang. We agreed to disagree and went back into the party and drank more beer.

When marketing goes wrong. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 30, 2020, 08:00:50 PM

cool 70s video, year-by-year (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLncPRduQAk)

Been watching/listening to this the last few days.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 30, 2020, 08:39:44 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on November 30, 2020, 12:47:19 PM

Not sure if anyone has read alternate history by Harry Turtledove.

I read one called The Guns of the South, which ended up being a sci-fi version of alternate history. A bunch of post-apartheid South Africans discover time travel, and decide that if they can just get the American Civil War to go the opposite direction, their own failed subjugation of blacks in South Africa won't have to end--so they supply the south with AK-47's. There's a lot more to it, and I realize that sounds ridiculous, but it's not a bad read.

A much better (and less fantastic) one was Ruled Brittania. Premise is that after the Spanish (rather than the English) wins the war in the late 1500's and conquers Britain. The story comes down to a young playwright who is tasked with writing a play that will cause the English to rise up and take back their nation from the Spanish... I'm sure you can imagine which young playwright is the star of the show lol...

So I've really spent more time on the Civil War than I intended to in my evolving American Military History course.  One of the things that has taken me more time is to flesh out the story of the Confederate commerce raiders beyond just the doings of the CSS Alabama.  It seems like many of these ships of the Confederate Nay visited South Africa, and were able to obtain many services--refueling, reprovisioning, repairing, replenishment of crews--there.  All very cordial, hip-hip, jolly good show there.  A white-supremacist affinity, perhaps.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 30, 2020, 08:42:43 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 30, 2020, 04:03:22 PM

in completely "other" news................

PORT CLINTON - Even as fishing in the “Walleye Capital of World” has certainly been living up to its name over the past two years, experts are projecting it could be on the verge of getting even better.

That capital, of course, is none other than Lake Erie, or even more specifically, its western basin, where the walleye population is reaching what scientists have described as “unprecedented” heights and is leading to incredible catch rates for anglers.

“Walleye fishing has never been better,” said Travis Hartman, a biologist with the Ohio Department of Natural Resources’ Division of Wildlife, about western Lake Erie.


Trawl surveys in western Lake Erie have documented enormous walleye hatches in 2015, 2018, 2019 and 2020.

Although 2020 is the smallest of those four examples, it is still considered another great hatch.

“Prior to 2015, I’d have been doing jumping jacks over our catches this year for young-of-year walleyes,” Hartman said. “We are in an incredible period of production.”


https://www.portclintonnewsherald.com/story/news/2020/11/09/walleye-hatches-leading-unprecedented-growth-phenomenal-fishing-lake-erie/6185408002/ (https://www.portclintonnewsherald.com/story/news/2020/11/09/walleye-hatches-leading-unprecedented-growth-phenomenal-fishing-lake-erie/6185408002/)

Is there a known reason for this?  Is there some natural predator or parasite of walleyes that has been depleted?  Has the lake gotten warmer?  Has the oxygen level in the lake changed?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 30, 2020, 08:56:40 PM

While Lake Erie’s record high water levels in recent years have plagued some communities along the western coast, such as the city of Port Clinton, with frequent flooding — it also appears to be one of the most significant contributing factors to the booming walleye production.

“It’s becoming clear to me that high water is very helpful in producing walleye,” Hartman said. “If you look at the ‘80s, we had very high water. If you look right now, we’re in that same type of high water scenario, actually higher.”


He said he does not yet know precisely what dynamics associated with the lake’s high water levels cause the increase in walleye production, but speculated about the possibility of more sustained plankton blooms that walleye larvae need to eat or, perhaps, currents bringing larvae inshore, potentially putting them in nursery habitats and a better chance of surviving.

“The bottom line is, when we have high water, we’re producing a lot of walleye,” he said.

Another likely contributing factor is preceding hard winter seasons, meaning late ice coverage and a delayed spawning season for walleye.

“But these last years have shown, we don’t have to have a hard winter,” Hartman said. “When you look at the west and you look at production, high water trumps everything.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on November 30, 2020, 09:00:52 PM

Heh!  Interesting stuff!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 30, 2020, 09:01:39 PM

crazy, Walleyes like water

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 30, 2020, 09:05:31 PM

I've been following this a bit.  One reason offered by some locals has been high water levels has created a better environment for larvae, as evidence for better #s of walleyes hatching/surviving outside of the predominant western basins. 

I've noticed the perch numbers are better too.

Edit: ha, FF reading what I read.  I saw this while watching local Midwest fishing shows these past months. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 30, 2020, 09:40:40 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 30, 2020, 08:00:50 PM

cool 70s video, year-by-year (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLncPRduQAk)

Been watching/listening to this the last few days. 

hour and a half
High, I'm Bill Fleming

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 01, 2020, 08:08:25 AM

I like walleyes.  Can't get'em here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 01, 2020, 08:41:09 AM

Walleye is very good eats.

We caught a lot of yellowtail snapper on Saturday, so that was a good meal Saturday night.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 01, 2020, 09:02:32 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 01, 2020, 08:41:09 AM

Walleye is very good eats.

We caught a lot of yellowtail snapper on Saturday, so that was a good meal Saturday night.

Love walleye.

Y'all get amberjack in your part of the state?  That's also some good eatin'.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on December 01, 2020, 09:13:30 AM

Walleye is indeed good eating.

Question for those more familiar with cooking ocean fish: is the meat of saltwater fish naturally quite salty, or did I just get a cook that was overzealous with the salt shaker? Last winter, when I was at Marco Island for a wedding, I had a grouper sandwich. It was tasty, but it was really salty.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 01, 2020, 09:16:31 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 01, 2020, 09:02:32 AM

Love walleye.

Y'all get amberjack in your part of the state?  That's also some good eatin'.

Yep, they are out there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 01, 2020, 09:17:09 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on December 01, 2020, 09:13:30 AM

Walleye is indeed good eating.

Question for those more familiar with cooking ocean fish: is the meat of saltwater fish naturally quite salty, or did I just get a cook that was overzealous with the salt shaker? Last winter, when I was at Marco Island for a wedding, I had a grouper sandwich. It was tasty, but it was really salty.

He used too much salt.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 01, 2020, 09:38:32 AM

I once was using up leftovers to make a kind of stew, I had some chunks of steak, leftover spaghetti sauce, and corn.  I mixed it all up with some more diced tomatoes and a bit of chili powder.  I really liked what the corn brought to it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on December 01, 2020, 10:08:01 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 30, 2020, 04:03:22 PM

in completely "other" news................

PORT CLINTON - Even as fishing in the “Walleye Capital of World” has certainly been living up to its name over the past two years, experts are projecting it could be on the verge of getting even better.

That capital, of course, is none other than Lake Erie, or even more specifically, its western basin, where the walleye population is reaching what scientists have described as “unprecedented” heights and is leading to incredible catch rates for anglers.

“Walleye fishing has never been better,” said Travis Hartman, a biologist with the Ohio Department of Natural Resources’ Division of Wildlife, about western Lake Erie.


Trawl surveys in western Lake Erie have documented enormous walleye hatches in 2015, 2018, 2019 and 2020.

Although 2020 is the smallest of those four examples, it is still considered another great hatch.

“Prior to 2015, I’d have been doing jumping jacks over our catches this year for young-of-year walleyes,” Hartman said. “We are in an incredible period of production.”


https://www.portclintonnewsherald.com/story/news/2020/11/09/walleye-hatches-leading-unprecedented-growth-phenomenal-fishing-lake-erie/6185408002/ (https://www.portclintonnewsherald.com/story/news/2020/11/09/walleye-hatches-leading-unprecedented-growth-phenomenal-fishing-lake-erie/6185408002/)

I remember in the 70s the Walleye were almost non-existent. Most people thought they would never come back.

Family had a boat at Port Clinton, Pretty much all you could catch was Perch and Small Mouth

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 01, 2020, 12:31:00 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 01, 2020, 09:38:32 AM

I once was using up leftovers to make a kind of stew, I had some chunks of steak, leftover spaghetti sauce, and corn.  I mixed it all up with some more diced tomatoes and a bit of chili powder.  I really liked what the corn brought to it.

of course corn is readily available in this region

many yankees put corn in almost everything, even in chili.

it's actually quite good in chili (soup)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 01, 2020, 01:51:20 PM

Really getting annoyed with some of the streaming TV options now.

We all know how to DVR and time-shift content. If you have a DVR in your house and you start recording a game that starts at 1 PM, for example, but you can't get to it until 1:45, it's no problem. You just go and start the recording from the beginning at 1:45. Oh, and you can fast forward through commercials and catch up. 

Not so much with streaming / cloud DVR. 

• First difference is that fast forwarding through commercials is no longer a given. In order to secure the streaming rights to have a cloud DVR at all, they are at the mercy of the content providers and some don't allow fast-forwarding through commercials and others (Hulu) require you to have an "enhanced DVR" subscription that's an additional $10/month. But hey, I'm okay with that. Commercials give me an opportunity to hit the restroom or grab a beer.
• Second, and more annoying, is that apparently some of the content providers are now putting a restriction that you can't *start* your recorded content from the beginning until the entire broadcast is completed. So if you want to pick up your football game at 1:45 PM, you can only watch live content from 1:45 PM on at that point. If you want to watch the content starting at 1:00 PM, you have to wait until the entire game is over to start the broadcast from the beginning. That's f'ing ridiculous.

I'm sure they think this will get people back to cable. Instead I'm more likely to just give up on sports fandom. Being a Purdue fan is soul-crushing enough without additional hurdles. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 01, 2020, 01:57:15 PM

Most every fried fish in the south is going to be salty in my experience.  Not in a bad way, but salty.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 01, 2020, 02:12:03 PM

That has not been my experience here. Granted, I don't normally order my fish fried. I like it seared and served.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 01, 2020, 02:20:15 PM

I don't like much salt in food, I often request lower salt when dining out.  I can't recall having fried fish at a beach restaurant that I thought was salty.

They don't eat corn in France.  They don't eat grits either.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on December 01, 2020, 02:21:53 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 01, 2020, 09:02:32 AM

Love walleye.

Y'all get amberjack in your part of the state?  That's also some good eatin'.

Walleye! Best eating fresh water fish on the planet bar none! Especially if you can go into Canada and get some from those cold deep clear lakes.  

My favorite ocean fish is now cobia.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 01, 2020, 02:21:57 PM

battered and fried = salty

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 01, 2020, 02:23:07 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on December 01, 2020, 02:21:53 PM

Walleye! Best eating fresh water fish on the planet bar none! Especially if you can go into Canada and get some from those cold deep clear lakes. 

My favorite ocean fish is now cobia.

I'm on to triple tail now.

Tried Wahoo. Didn't like that at all. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 01, 2020, 06:40:22 PM

(https://scontent.fdsm1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p552x414/128842148_3832290740114877_5893123394406480653_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=PnK0osb_tU4AX_v4e68&_nc_ht=scontent.fdsm1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=2c5104bb8b1b77c4acc75e00ea4e8ed3&oe=5FEB02D7)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 02, 2020, 08:02:01 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 01, 2020, 09:38:32 AM

I once was using up leftovers to make a kind of stew, I had some chunks of steak, leftover spaghetti sauce, and corn.  I mixed it all up with some more diced tomatoes and a bit of chili powder.  I really liked what the corn brought to it.

Well so much for the image I had of you being a connoisseur of the culinary arts.Now what you describe above is I'm sure something I've whipped up before,many times.Hope you ate it proper - over the sink!!!.Now excuse me I have to get back to removing the 14.6"s we had yesterday.Lying bastages said 3"-5"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2020, 08:16:02 AM

I like dining out, and I enjoy good food, but I also "clean out the fridge" and make something and on occasion it's pretty decent.

We went to our favorite French place last night, had something called "Kokeel Saint Jack", I may have misspelled that, and a nice Chablis (it is half priced wine night).

I think celery is a nice i0gredient for various stew type foods.

It was 28°F when I got up, it's now very sunny outside, some wind, we'll go for a walk somewhere, maybe up to the botanical garden, we like it when it's empty.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 02, 2020, 08:19:31 AM

Love scallops, probably my favorite seafood.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 02, 2020, 08:21:45 AM

I've got some scallops. I think I will make that dish.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 02, 2020, 08:36:11 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 02, 2020, 08:16:02 AM

I think celery is a nice i0gredient for various stew type foods.

It was 28°F when I got up, it's now very sunny outside, some wind, we'll go for a walk somewhere, maybe up to the botanical garden, we like it when it's empty.

32 deg & sunny I'll be trudging up and down a few driveways before long.Sometimes I use Celery instead of bell peppers in Chili - tasty

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 02, 2020, 08:46:12 AM

there ain't no celery or bell peppers in proper chili

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 02, 2020, 08:48:32 AM

Cleaning out the fridge - idgit.And as you've regaled very seldom is the next batch of chili similar to the previous one

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 02, 2020, 08:50:18 AM

I'll allow it.

I'm the fridge cleaner in my house.

nothing goes to waste

even if it has a bit of mold or wilt to it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2020, 08:50:52 AM

We're headed down to Hilton Head tomorrow apparently.  I hope the wife is OK with that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 02, 2020, 08:50:58 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 02, 2020, 08:46:12 AM

there ain't no celery or bell peppers in proper chili

Truth.

Ain't no beans, either.

Obviously.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2020, 08:51:49 AM

And it's "stew" when I take dribs and drabs of leftovers and combine them, augmenting with celery or onion esp. and garlic and whatever else.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 02, 2020, 08:53:09 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 02, 2020, 08:50:18 AM

I'll allow it.

I'm the fridge cleaner in my house.

nothing goes to waste

even if it has a bit of mold or wilt to it

Science projects specials- better be scraping that cheese unless of course that's part of your "greens" intake

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 02, 2020, 08:54:53 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 02, 2020, 08:50:58 AM

Truth.

Ain't no beans, either.

Obviously.

Sayz who,you use to have to hand crank your car that had no windows or heater and wooden rims.It's called advancements/improvements.Plus with the price of meat because of covid contamination beans are a good source of protein

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 02, 2020, 12:26:42 PM

It's about time this farce ended. Those of us with allergies greatly appreciate this ruling.

Feds crack down on flying with emotional support animals - Chicago Tribune (https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-airplane-emotional-support-pets-law-20201202-w722iedxgrgvhfpd3e2flumixq-story.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 02, 2020, 01:00:18 PM

Don't want my live alligator hogging the armrest?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 02, 2020, 01:05:27 PM

Actually seeing someone with a live alligator as an emotional support animal would be pretty cool.

As long as there was a lot of distance between that gator and me.  And a lot of tasty-looking fatties as buffer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 02, 2020, 01:13:46 PM

Dell has plenty of those sitting around

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 02, 2020, 01:17:34 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 02, 2020, 01:13:46 PM

Dell has plenty of those sitting around

Alligators, or fatties?  The reality is, there's none of the former, and not much of the latter, at Dell.  The workforce is pretty young and fit, honestly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 02, 2020, 01:20:59 PM

Then how come you're knocking off 40 lbs every January/February do they have a weight loss contest? ;D

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 02, 2020, 01:23:44 PM

if he wants to knock off 40 lbs, he simply removes his hat

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 02, 2020, 01:26:41 PM

Is his head in it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 02, 2020, 01:27:47 PM

maybe that's his belt buckle

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 02, 2020, 01:28:59 PM

Hope he doesn't use it on the kids.Or you and Bwarb when you move there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 02, 2020, 01:38:06 PM

geezus, even my father didn't use the buckle

the strap was enough to get my undivided attention

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 02, 2020, 01:39:55 PM

That's what ya get for leaving bell pepper out of your chili - your dad gets a Yuengling

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2020, 01:41:48 PM

I put bell pepper and celery into spaghetti sauce, and that usually is the basis for my chili.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 02, 2020, 01:54:24 PM

you obviously, spent WAY too much time in Cincy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 02, 2020, 01:55:30 PM

No tomatoes in chili. either.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 02, 2020, 01:57:15 PM

the truth

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 02, 2020, 01:59:09 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 02, 2020, 01:55:30 PM

No tomatoes in chili. either.

Water from lake travis it is with stringy longhorn and hot peppers.The hotter the better so you don't actually have to taste the stuff

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 02, 2020, 02:01:32 PM

We don't eat Longhorn around here.  We just raise it to look at it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 02, 2020, 02:02:20 PM

Ah Fatties

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 02, 2020, 02:03:08 PM

rumor has it, that garlic and onions were found along the cattle trails and were chili ingredients from the get go

stringy Texas beef, chiles, onions, and garlic.

salt to taste

that's it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 02, 2020, 02:05:04 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 02, 2020, 02:03:08 PM

rumor has it, that garlic and onions were found along the cattle trails and were chili ingredients from the get go

stringy Texas beef, chiles, onions, and garlic.

salt to taste

that's it

Yup that's pretty much it.

It's the blend of dried chile peppers that create the character and depth of flavor, and it's the addition of fresh jalapenos and/or serranos, and cayenne powder, that lends the heat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 02, 2020, 02:06:43 PM

They also took beans on those cattle dives haven't you ever watched Blazing Saddles.No seriously they did - easy to transport and cook.As did the pioneers crossing the continent.The weak ones stopped in Iowa/Nebraska.The smart ones stayed in Ohio

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 02, 2020, 02:08:22 PM

I also add comino and a tiny bit of Mexican oregano.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 02, 2020, 02:08:46 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 02, 2020, 02:06:43 PM

They also took beans on those cattle dives haven't you ever watched Blazing Saddles.No seriously they did - easy to transport and cook

Yeah beans were made alongside the chili.  Not in the chili.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 02, 2020, 02:10:48 PM

So no one tried it at all?Ever?hell they thru possom on the half shell in there if they were hungry enough.High fallutin cow pokes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 02, 2020, 02:12:42 PM

the beans that could be on the wagon were dry and would need to be soaked to be edible

rather have a hard crust of bread to soak up the chili juice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 02, 2020, 02:14:16 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 02, 2020, 02:10:48 PM

So no one tried it at all?Ever?hell they thru possom on the half shell in there if they were hungry enough.High fallutin cow pokes

the Chili Queens of San Antonio never tried it!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 02, 2020, 02:17:29 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 02, 2020, 02:12:42 PM

the beans that could be on the wagon were dry and would need to be soaked to be edible

rather have a hard crust of bread to soak up the chili juice

What juice?there's nothing to soak the beans with remember - let 94 tell the story and stay outta the Bud Fat.And not only that they had to water the "Doggies" somewhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 02, 2020, 02:18:14 PM

it's actually called, gravy, not juice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 02, 2020, 02:19:51 PM

They watered the cattle they could water the beans - stick to dirt farming

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 02, 2020, 02:23:11 PM

maybe they didn't appreciate "blazing" saddles as much as you would

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 02, 2020, 02:28:18 PM

camp town ladies sing their song, doo darrr, doo darrr

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 02, 2020, 02:32:23 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 02, 2020, 02:23:11 PM

maybe they didn't appreciate "blazing" saddles as much as you would

How it didn't win an Oscar I'll never know

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2020, 02:37:32 PM

No tomatoes?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 02, 2020, 02:39:14 PM

Testify CD testify

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 02, 2020, 02:56:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 02, 2020, 02:37:32 PM

No tomatoes?

(https://i.imgur.com/8RHPv25.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2020, 03:22:00 PM

I like onions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 02, 2020, 03:24:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 02, 2020, 03:22:00 PM

I like onions.

And you may have them in proper chili.

Here's an old school original San Antonio chili recipe, from the archives:


Ingredients:
2 lbs beef shoulder, cut into ½-inch cubes
1 lb pork shoulder, cut into ½-inch cubes
¼ cup suet
¼ cup pork fat
3 medium-sized onions, chopped
6 garlic cloves, minced
1-quart water
4 acho chiles
1 serrano chile
6 dried red chiles
1 Tablespoon comino seeds, freshly ground
2 tablespoons Mexican oregano
Salt to taste

Place lightly floured beef and pork cubes in with suet and pork fat in heavy chili pot and cook quickly, stirring often. Add onions and garlic and cook until they are tender and limp. Add water to mixture and simmer slowly while preparing chiles. Remove stems and seeds from chile and chop very finely. Grind chiles in molcajete and add oregano with salt to mixture. Simmer another 2 hours. Remove suet casing and skim off some fat. Never cook frijoles with chilies and meat. Serve as separate dish.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 02, 2020, 03:49:08 PM

similar to mine.................

Fearless Phil authentic Chili:

1 1/2 cups finely minced white onion
8 garlic cloves, finely minced
2 (15 1/2-ounce) cans chicken broth, with fat removed
4 ounces tomato sauce
3/4 teaspoon garlic powder
3 tablespoons ground cumin
2 1/2 tablespoons Gebhardt chili powder
3 tablespoons Fort Worth Light chili powder
3 tablespoons California chile powder (mild)
2 tablespoons Flagstaff chile powder (medium)
1 tablespoon New Mexico chile powder (hot)
2 teaspoons salt

3 pounds tri-tip beef, cut into 3/4-inch cubes
1 tablespoon virgin olive oil
1/2 teaspoon meat tenderizer
1/2 teaspoon light brown sugar
1 teaspoon Tabasco brand pepper sauce

In a large pot simmer onion and minced garlic in 2 cups of chicken broth for 10 minutes. Add tomato sauce and all dry spices, except the tenderizer and sugar. Mix well. Brown the meat in oil using a separate pan and drain well. Sprinkle the meat with the tenderizer. Add the meat to the onion/spice mixture. Add remaining broth and simmer for 2 1/2 hours.
Mix in brown sugar and pepper sauce just before serving.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2020, 04:23:56 PM

Now I'm just hungry.

I like my chili, or whatever it's called (no beans).  I usually serve it over rice and often top it with shredded cheddar or sour cream.  I need to try the "authentic original" style though.  Might downsize it.

Did not know it had pork in it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 02, 2020, 04:30:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 02, 2020, 04:23:56 PM

Now I'm just hungry.

I like my chili, or whatever it's called (no beans).  I usually serve it over rice and often top it with shredded cheddar or sour cream.  I need to try the "authentic original" style though.  Might downsize it.

Did not know it had pork in it.

I don't use the cubed pork but obviously some recipes do.

Well, I take that back-- I do use pork, because I use about 1-1.5 lbs of pork chorizo.  I brown it to render the fat, remove the chorizo meat, then I sear my cubed beef in the remaining chorizo fat plus a little extra oil if necessary.  I reintroduce the chorizo meat once I'm adding all of the chile puree and and dry spices into the mix.

Oh, and I always serve with shredded cheddar and diced raw onions. Cornbread typically, too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2020, 04:39:02 PM

We should have like a recipe page or something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 02, 2020, 04:45:16 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 02, 2020, 04:39:02 PM

We should have like a recipe page or something.

Pretty sure at least one variation of my chili recipe is in there somewhere.  Though it's been so long, it's probably not the one I currently use.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 02, 2020, 04:53:00 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 02, 2020, 04:39:02 PM

We should have like a recipe page or something.

We should write a cookbook.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 02, 2020, 05:03:08 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 02, 2020, 04:53:00 PM

We should write a cookbook.

Wasn't someone supposed to collate our recipe thread into a cookbook for us?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 02, 2020, 05:23:57 PM

It's a project for all of us.

Drew saved it from the old site. It's a lot of work to pare it down.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2020, 05:30:45 PM

I know how to e publish

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 02, 2020, 05:31:07 PM

I like to have some pork or pork fat in my chili.  Somehow the heat from the chile powder attaches to the pork fat and gets to the correct places on the tongue better.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 02, 2020, 05:33:07 PM

In other news.........

it's quitting time, and Wings Wednesday

headed to the local bar for broasted wings and taters with some Grim Reaper sauce

yes, Carolina Reaper peppers!

thanks to breeder Ed Currie

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2020, 05:38:24 PM

We're headed to Hilton Head tomorrow.  I scored a beach front 2 bedroom condo cheap.

Hudson's Seafood.  The Jazz Corner.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 02, 2020, 05:44:01 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 02, 2020, 05:30:45 PM

I know how to e publish

My own belief is that a cookbook doesn't lend itself well to an ereader. 

If you want to do it right, it should be a full-color glossy professional-looking deal. 

Which is why I kinda thought that the "angle" that we could use is target the cookbook at new college grads who happen to be football fans, which makes it a PERFECT gift item. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 02, 2020, 05:57:11 PM

Most of them couldn't afford it. They'd have to trade in their art history books and that ain't happening.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 02, 2020, 06:05:08 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 02, 2020, 05:57:11 PM

Most of them couldn't afford it. They'd have to trade in their art history books and that ain't happening.

No, it's a gift from parents/relatives to the new college grads. You know, people who have accomplishments and income?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 02, 2020, 06:10:05 PM

I wouldn't know. I had income started at 14.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 02, 2020, 06:13:51 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 02, 2020, 06:10:05 PM

I wouldn't know. I had income started at 14.

Slacker. I started at 13. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 02, 2020, 06:21:35 PM

11 for me.   

(maybe)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 02, 2020, 06:36:03 PM

So ya'll violated child labor laws and lived to pat yourselves on the back - you all get a yuengling.Even though i was drinking Gennessee @ age 13

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2020, 06:38:00 PM

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15142951/oldsmobile-toronado-archived-test-review/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1voTKpRWlmCgV60p5S4sEF9B31on7lZkyHzTLYjtencBDEXKlWMx134wY


Hilarious, the Olds Toronado, reviewed.  Hilarious.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 02, 2020, 06:41:37 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 02, 2020, 06:36:03 PM

So ya'll violated child labor laws and lived to pat yourselves on the back - you all get a yuengling.Even though i was drinking Gennessee @ age 13

Was a caddy at 13, minimum age for caddy in Illinois.

In Illinois, you can also get jobs starting at 14 if your school counselor signs off on a work permit, which I got w/o issue as it's not like my grades were suffering. So I was a starter on a golf course starting at age 14, and I think I might have done that the summer I turned 15 as well.

Started working year-round rather than summers as I approached my 16th birthday, got a job first at Subway and then as soon as I had a driver's license I left that horrible foodservice gig and got a job selling computers at Best Buy, which I kept up until leaving for college.

Never had a Gennessee. Only time I drank prior to college was when I visited my sister at Mizzou during parent's weekend at the age of 15, and she took me out and got me hammered. Never touched alcohol beyond that, all through high school. I was a good kid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 02, 2020, 06:56:09 PM

In Illinois now, you can't start working until you are 30 y/o. And that's optional.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2020, 07:11:04 PM

For engineerds, a detailed look at the Corvette C8 suspension.  

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a34825083/c8-corvette-suspension-deep-dive-analysis-video/?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR0jryjnE2ViuCM8i07YUW_OYEhnQEnw4Fqr_QtbUB8jZeW-wQKxhSb1t1A

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 02, 2020, 07:58:14 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 02, 2020, 07:11:04 PM

For engineerds, a detailed look at the Corvette C8 suspension. 

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a34825083/c8-corvette-suspension-deep-dive-analysis-video/?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR0jryjnE2ViuCM8i07YUW_OYEhnQEnw4Fqr_QtbUB8jZeW-wQKxhSb1t1A

(https://i.imgur.com/83li9Xc.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 03, 2020, 12:29:39 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 02, 2020, 06:41:37 PM

Never had a Gennessee. Only time I drank prior to college was when I visited my sister at Mizzou during parent's weekend at the age of 15, and she took me out and got me hammered. Never touched alcohol beyond that, all through high school. I was a good kid.

I was a good kid too - a tad bit tipsy but not bad.See the old man always had a keg.When it was still practal to do so,the folks would head up to the summer cottage in Marble Head by the Erie Islands.My older brother was home from college and suppose to be keeping an eye on me(I was in Middle school) but he was working and chasing skirt.He simply told me if I got in trouble he'd get in trouble.Between baseball games and practice I'd invite some of the neighborhood buds over and sip some suds.Of course my brother and his buddies usually heard about the dwindling keg.My dad had it counted down to the glass and could tell by the Co2 guage.Then I'd go up to the Erie Islands with the folks where many vacationers had Kegs on their outside patios and of course a few of us help ourselves at night.We were suspected but never caught-some good summers from what I remember

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 03, 2020, 01:01:05 PM

I wasn't a good kid, but y'all probably figured that one

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 03, 2020, 04:48:40 PM

What should I do with a 9# whole pork loin?

I had to hit the Costco for my weekly run today, and saw they had a smokin' deal of $8 off a package. It's running $1.99/lb so I ended up with about a 9# loin for $10. 

Trying to figure out what to do with it. I know my wife makes a mean Tuscan pork roast, so I could cut about 1/3 of it for that, but not sure if I just want to cut it into 3 roasts and vacuum seal and freeze them, or what other preparations might be possible?

Obviously it's a matter of vacuum sealing and freezing regardless, but trying to figure out how to portion it into the most useful sizes/cuts...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 03, 2020, 04:50:33 PM

Make it into chops, about 1.5" thick.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 03, 2020, 04:54:45 PM

Thinking of that, for at least a portion of it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 03, 2020, 04:56:50 PM

Makes pretty good crockpot tacos too. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 03, 2020, 04:57:52 PM

Must brine, in my opinion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 03, 2020, 05:00:11 PM

I did a google search for "pork loin roulade" and only got a few hits. 

Google said a related search was "rolled stuffed pork loin". That got a lot more hits. 

I wept a little inside.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 03, 2020, 05:05:29 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 03, 2020, 05:00:11 PM

I did a google search for "pork loin roulade" and only got a few hits.

Google said a related search was "rolled stuffed pork loin". That got a lot more hits.

I wept a little inside.

I've never done it with pork loin, but with pork tenderloin, I've slit it lengthwise, stuffed with chorizo and cheese, wrapped with bacon, and thrown in the smoker at 300 for around an hour or until done.  

I call it pig-stuffed pig-wrapped pig.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 03, 2020, 05:05:40 PM

yup, I slice into chops.

some thinner for sammiches if you like

you can simply throw the whole thing on a Big Green Egg or smoker and then see how much you can eat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 03, 2020, 05:36:16 PM

Can always cook it most of the way and then portion for freezing and final cooking (sear, whatever).

Sous vide is probably not big enough for this thing. I know mine wouldn't be.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 03, 2020, 07:09:57 PM

Kitchen is about done.

(https://i.imgur.com/jGAjzFm.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 03, 2020, 07:12:03 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/y97dvvZ.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 03, 2020, 07:13:31 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/d95ioot.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 03, 2020, 07:14:57 PM

Master bath is done.

(https://i.imgur.com/spbWSGW.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 03, 2020, 07:15:40 PM

Looking good, Badge! If I'm ever in Florida, I'll drop by for dinner. :72:

BTW is that a microwave and an oven, or is that a double oven? I've seen some of those where you can see the smaller upper chamber but I've never had the chance to ask someone... I know double ovens is on the wife's wish list for our forever house... Heck it's on my wish list too lol!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 03, 2020, 07:16:40 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 03, 2020, 07:15:40 PM

Looking good, Badge! If I'm ever in Florida, I'll drop by for dinner. :72:

BTW is that a microwave and an oven, or is that a double oven? I've seen some of those where you can see the smaller upper chamber but I've never had the chance to ask someone... I know double ovens is on the wife's wish list for our forever house... Heck it's on my wish list too lol!

The mic is also an oven. So, it can be a double oven, or not. It's a nice unit. I did all Samsung this time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 03, 2020, 07:17:32 PM

Spare bath is done.

(https://i.imgur.com/T0M2nWu.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/SDwKdPq.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 03, 2020, 07:19:41 PM

Can't leave out Mrs. Happy.

(https://i.imgur.com/5DBNF5V.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 03, 2020, 07:21:01 PM

Or my view:

(https://i.imgur.com/8lROHVL.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 03, 2020, 07:22:41 PM

Or my new license plate:

(https://i.imgur.com/s58PkK6.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on December 03, 2020, 07:23:41 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 02, 2020, 06:38:00 PM

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15142951/oldsmobile-toronado-archived-test-review/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1voTKpRWlmCgV60p5S4sEF9B31on7lZkyHzTLYjtencBDEXKlWMx134wY


Hilarious, the Olds Toronado, reviewed.  Hilarious.

The quirky writing was always half the fun of C-D.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on December 03, 2020, 10:31:19 PM

Does anybody get real trees in FL Badge?

We had ours delivered yesterday and kids wasted no time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 03, 2020, 10:44:15 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 03, 2020, 07:13:31 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/d95ioot.jpg)

Fine, fine, I'll be down in a minute.

(Maybe some day, though damn that part of Florida is the end of the world)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 04, 2020, 07:24:29 AM

Quote from: MarqHusker on December 03, 2020, 10:31:19 PM

Does anybody get real trees in FL Badge?

We had ours delivered yesterday and kids wasted no time.

I don't know. We always have an artificial now after having fresh for years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 04, 2020, 07:25:36 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on December 03, 2020, 10:44:15 PM

Fine, fine, I'll be down in a minute.

(Maybe some day, though damn that part of Florida is the end of the world)

Not really. There is quite a bit to do around here. Or course, we are in a bubble, as that was how our development was intended to be.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 04, 2020, 07:28:00 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 03, 2020, 07:22:41 PM

Or my new license plate:

(https://i.imgur.com/s58PkK6.png)

I'd take some snapshots of my stuff but I can't seem to down load the damn things

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 04, 2020, 07:38:01 AM

I just started pulling random pics from my phone, and the I used the snipping tool to cut and paste.

The license plate is special to me. It has the partial name of my company and my initials.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 04, 2020, 07:59:48 AM

Is that Mertt?Can't quite make it out

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 04, 2020, 08:03:45 AM

Merit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 04, 2020, 09:47:49 AM

Nice pad, badge!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 04, 2020, 09:55:40 AM

Thanks. I will try to find some "before" pictures. Yucky.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 04, 2020, 10:08:54 AM

You put decals on your car? On the paint? :o

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 04, 2020, 10:46:07 AM

The "MW" decal is the car dealer - MotorWerks of Barrington. The other one is a motion W. They can come off without harm to the paint.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 04, 2020, 10:47:02 AM

Master bath before:

(https://i.imgur.com/QVUXIRM.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 04, 2020, 10:47:54 AM

Spare bath before:

(https://i.imgur.com/7ulScfB.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 04, 2020, 10:50:28 AM

Kitchen before:

(https://i.imgur.com/sSEjfac.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/lmW3MU5.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/gEghMOB.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 04, 2020, 11:07:55 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 04, 2020, 10:46:07 AM

The "MW" decal is the car dealer - MotorWerks of Barrington. The other one is a motion W. They can come off without harm to the paint.

Oh okay. Depending on the vinyl, it can leave some residue that can be a bitch to get off. Magnets are generally better because they come right off and you can reposition them if you need to, but if they are the wrong kind of magnet material they can fuse to the car once they get wet. Then you are really screwed. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 04, 2020, 11:16:21 AM

They are actually plastic, coated with chrome, with a sticky tape to adhere. I'm told they remove pretty easily.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 04, 2020, 11:25:08 AM

Man, I'd've gotten two and tried one on your fridge first, but it's a bit late for that obviously. 

The adhesive ones generally go on the glass. You have to be careful not to mangle them with your ice scraper, but you don't have to worry about that anymore. 

They look good though. Like they belong. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 04, 2020, 11:29:07 AM

If the chrome is first surface (on the outside of the decal) then the sun might eventually bake it black. If it is second surface (printed underneath the plastic) then the color will hold, but it might get left behind when you peel up the decal. That was a really big problem with football helmets. 

The best way around it was to print it first surface, and then laminate it with another protective layer. Best of both worlds. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 04, 2020, 11:32:15 AM

I refuse to have anything identifying the dealership where I bought a car on the car. 

I've already paid for the car. If you want me to advertise your dealership, you should be paying me for that privilege. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 04, 2020, 11:39:02 AM

I just never bothered to remove it. I think I will.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 04, 2020, 11:58:54 AM

The worst thing that you can do is put something religious or political on your car because no matter what it is there is bound to be some guy out there somewhere who takes offense to it and they might tamper with your car. Sports decals can be problematic as well. A Wisconsin decal in Florida is probably safe, but of you are rolling around with a Michigan decal in Columbus or whatever, you have balls of steel.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on December 04, 2020, 11:59:18 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 04, 2020, 11:32:15 AM

I refuse to have anything identifying the dealership where I bought a car on the car.

I've already paid for the car. If you want me to advertise your dealership, you should be paying me for that privilege.

Amen!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 04, 2020, 12:13:25 PM

youse guys are a bit sensative

I'm not going to much trouble to remove the auto dealer's logo from my vehicle.  Especially if the process may damage the finish.

that said, I don't put stickers or decals on my vehicles.

I also don't have tattoos on my body.

I do have a couple Husker magnets I throw on if I'm driving to Lincoln or to an away game. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 04, 2020, 12:28:28 PM

If I worry that removing the decal will damage the finish, I make the dealer do it before I take possession of the car. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 04, 2020, 12:32:35 PM

I might take it to a detail shop to have them remove the one. The W stays.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 04, 2020, 12:34:45 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 04, 2020, 12:28:28 PM

If I worry that removing the decal will damage the finish, I make the dealer do it before I take possession of the car.

I'm sure they hate to see you leave the lot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 04, 2020, 12:41:37 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 04, 2020, 12:34:45 PM

I'm sure they hate to see you leave the lot.

LOL... I'm actually not that bad. Most dealers don't really even do that any more with the decals around here. They put on their license plate frames, and I drive off the lot with their frame on the car--and change it when I get home. 

The only time I've had to do that was when I lived in Atlanta, which is Neal Boortz country. He made a point of talking about the same thing on his radio show back then, so I'm pretty sure all the Atlanta area dealers are used to it. 

I've also never understood the concept of wearing a T-shirt that says something like "Guess Jeans" on it. Really? Do I need my shirt to advertise my pants? Who would wear such a thing? (Turns out, a lot of people...)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 04, 2020, 12:46:44 PM

and a lot of people will pay over $30 for the shirt advertising their pants

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 04, 2020, 12:51:06 PM

Last minute trip to Hilton Head.  72 F...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 04, 2020, 12:51:35 PM

And just in case anyone wonders... I'm not entirely sure my position is perfectly consistent. It's not like I only wear plain shirts. 

My T-shirt wardrobe (with the exception of some plain-colored v-necks) is almost entirely Purdue shirts or brewery shirts. Clearly I'm advertising for both, and I'm not getting those shirts free. But I'm deliberately choosing to support those entities/businesses... When I buy my intent is not to advertise for a dealer, and when I buy a piece of clothing, my intent is not to advertise the brand of clothing I bought. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 04, 2020, 12:52:42 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 04, 2020, 12:51:06 PM

Last minute trip to Hilton Head.  72 F...

stay safe
drink some wine

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 04, 2020, 12:55:21 PM

I don't have many t-shirts I've actually paid for.

90% are from vendors in the business or my employer for free.

another 9% are Husker or Viking shirts that were gifts.

the remaining one shirt I may have purchased I'm not sure I could find.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 04, 2020, 12:56:36 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 04, 2020, 12:41:37 PM

LOL... I'm actually not that bad. Most dealers don't really even do that any more with the decals around here. They put on their license plate frames, and I drive off the lot with their frame on the car--and change it when I get home.

The only time I've had to do that was when I lived in Atlanta, which is Neal Boortz country. He made a point of talking about the same thing on his radio show back then, so I'm pretty sure all the Atlanta area dealers are used to it.

I've also never understood the concept of wearing a T-shirt that says something like "Guess Jeans" on it. Really? Do I need my shirt to advertise my pants? Who would wear such a thing? (Turns out, a lot of people...)

In Ohio the plate covers were illegal because they covered up the name of the county. Of course the dealers put them on there anyway without bothering to tell you that. So you'd get a ticket as soon as you drove through a speed trap. Quite the racket.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 06, 2020, 10:18:58 PM

any of youse guys know anything about telescopes?

My daughter wants one for Xmas.

I'm not looking to spend a lot of money, maybe $200 or less.  Doubt she will really use it much.

I'll probably get something slightly used.

Lots of options, and I know nothing about optics like this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 06, 2020, 10:23:03 PM

Get one that can spot the planets. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj-P031VlbU&ab_channel=J.W.Astronomy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 06, 2020, 10:32:26 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 06, 2020, 10:18:58 PM

any of youse guys know anything about telescopes?

When I was hunting/fishing more I bought a lot of gear from here .sportsmansguide.com/product/index/barska-20-60x60mm-colorado-waterproof-spotting-scope?a=1516596&szc=000&clrc=000&pm2d=CSE-SPG-15-PLA&utm_medium .They use to sell Military Surplus - they still might.

 When I was looking this ad popped up https://www.bestbuy.com/site/celestron-travel-scope-70mm-refractor-telescope-gray-black/6387417.p?skuId=6387417&ref=212&loc=1&extStoreId=278&ref=212&loc=1&ds_r ,so there is prolly one around you - Good Luck

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 07, 2020, 10:05:14 AM

Continuing the conversation from Saturday, for my bday dinner, I got the branzino, but my i s c & a aggie wife got the braised beef short ribs, so I got to enjoy BOTH. 

I also stumbled into a free bottle Chateau Margaux, that was quite the experience...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 07, 2020, 10:12:50 AM

Made ribs yesterday. Mmmmm...

(https://www.homebrewtalk.com/attachments/pxl_20201207_023927513-jpg.709270/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 07, 2020, 10:59:32 AM

Did you bring some for the rest of us

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 07, 2020, 12:08:12 PM

I've been thinking about that Mr. Hand

it's it "our" time?  since we are both here?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 07, 2020, 04:10:07 PM

Uber sells its self-driving unit to Aurora

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 07, 2020, 05:16:13 PM

Down into the 30s tonight, off to the Jazz Corner.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 07, 2020, 05:22:06 PM

Going to 46 here. High of 62 tomorrow. Low of 39.

I feel like I brought this with me...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 07, 2020, 05:33:53 PM

The most humorous part of life in a warm climate is to see dogs in sweaters when it's like 65 degrees out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 07, 2020, 05:35:25 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on December 07, 2020, 05:33:53 PM

The most humorous part of life in a warm climate is to see dogs in sweaters when it's like 65 degrees out.

Yeah, I'm constantly amazed at what people here think is "cold"...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 07, 2020, 06:07:11 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 07, 2020, 05:22:06 PM

Going to 46 here. High of 62 tomorrow. Low of 39.

I feel like I brought this with me...

it's the "W" on the Benz 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 07, 2020, 06:09:28 PM

low of 23 overnight - high 50's on Wings Wednesday

I'll be golfing Wednesday afternoon

2-3 inches of snow Friday and Saturday!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 07, 2020, 06:13:31 PM

Went all Marie Kondo on my Facebook friends list today. If it doesn't bring you joy, throw it out!

Went from 180 to 63. 

Mostly symbolic, because I basically don't post on FB and don't read it, but still, it felt good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 07, 2020, 06:48:00 PM

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EoqkRM3XEAAMbO_?format=jpg&name=small)

See new Tweets
Tweet


 (https://twitter.com/YahooSportsCFB)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1176105745936347137/nzEm8quX_bigger.png)
 (https://twitter.com/YahooSportsCFB)
 (https://twitter.com/YahooSportsCFB)
 (https://twitter.com/YahooSportsCFB)Yahoo Sports College Football

@YahooSportsCFB
 (https://twitter.com/YahooSportsCFB)
·
2h (https://twitter.com/YahooSportsCFB/status/1336060877070602243)


UNLV QB Max Gilliam issued an apology for eating sushi off of a nude model on a reality TV show.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 07, 2020, 06:50:25 PM

Apology? Dude should be writing a book. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 07, 2020, 07:01:07 PM

I need pics to see just how bad his behavior was, before I judge

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 07, 2020, 07:35:46 PM

for Burnt Eyes........ no that he will se this here, but...........



(https://scontent.fdsm1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/130686721_10165250041015500_127022192441333668_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=EyanOkaR5acAX-hOxjf&_nc_ht=scontent.fdsm1-1.fna&oh=a356586598b40539f5240882241cc472&oe=5FF5A761)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 07, 2020, 08:08:11 PM

In past 8 days, 121 FBS players have entered NCAA Transfer Portal, including a whopping 26 so far today. Good luck finding a new school w/all players not losing a year of eligibility this season

3:02 PM · Dec 7, 2020

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 08, 2020, 08:16:01 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/xAy42Hm.png)

This is not normal for here. The record low for this date is 37, set in 1984. Average is 77/56.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on December 08, 2020, 08:37:25 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 07, 2020, 05:22:06 PM

Going to 46 here. High of 62 tomorrow. Low of 39.

I feel like I brought this with me...

I don’t know badge. I have been down here from Michigan since the beginning of 2016 and everyone keeps telling me that my blood will thin out and the cold weather will really get to me like it does get to them. But it has not happened yet. This cool air actually is a great relief for me from the 6 to 8 months of 90+ degrees and 95% humidity!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 08, 2020, 08:41:49 AM

Really glad I got the solar heat for the pool. Electric bill and all that. Ouch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 08, 2020, 08:48:02 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 08, 2020, 08:16:01 AM

[img width=500 height=298.991]https://i.imgur.com/xAy42Hm.png[/img]

This is not normal for here. The record low for this date is 37, set in 1984. Average is 77/56.

The front half of that looks about average for Austin this time of year.  Yes, it's too cold for me.  Someday I'll be moving to a tropical island in the Caribbean or something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 08, 2020, 09:14:29 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on December 08, 2020, 08:37:25 AM

I don’t know badge. I have been down here from Michigan since the beginning of 2016 and everyone keeps telling me that my blood will thin out and the cold weather will really get to me like it does get to them. But it has not happened yet. This cool air actually is a great relief for me from the 6 to 8 months of 90+ degrees and 95% humidity!

It takes a while. 20 years in Southern California and I'm nowhere near as tolerant of cold as I was then... But still much more tolerant of cold than the natives here. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 08, 2020, 09:30:15 AM

37 F here this morning, but sunny.  Go for a walk soon.

A lot of folks on the beach walking,

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 08, 2020, 09:31:43 AM

Might set a record high here tomorrow afternoon while on the golf course

high of 55 today - it's balmy AF

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 08, 2020, 09:49:27 AM

How the hell are you getting all that balmy weather and I'm seeing sled dog deliveries all over the place?To hell with Austin I'm moving to sewer city

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 08, 2020, 09:52:36 AM

That's the spirit!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on December 08, 2020, 10:01:28 AM

High of 48 tomorrow here in MSP with brilliant sunshine. It's kind of crazy to think that it will be December 9 and I'll be taking my road bike out without being muffled to the eyebrows.

All the golf courses here that are still open have been stacked solid. Definitely helps their bottom lines for the year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 08, 2020, 10:03:30 AM

so, where are the Boomer Sooners?

how come I've not heard of "The Smoked Oklahoma Prime Rib" before???

utee?  Longhorn?

Hooky would have known, he had relatives from there or lived there a while

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 08, 2020, 10:17:45 AM

70 when I walked the dog this morning. Expected high of 81 today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 08, 2020, 10:19:19 AM

its supposed to get up to 71 in Houston today

eat your heart out Fearless

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 08, 2020, 10:25:57 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 08, 2020, 10:03:30 AM

so, where are the Boomer Sooners?

how come I've not heard of "The Smoked Oklahoma Prime Rib" before???

utee?  Longhorn?

Hooky would have known, he had relatives from there or lived there a while

There are places around here that will run a special on smoked prime rib from time to time.  I didn't know it was an Oklahoma thing.

It's not my favorite cut, even smoked, so I don't ever really order it and I've never done it myself.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 08, 2020, 12:18:41 PM

so, you haven't heard of "it" before.....

https://www.smoking-meat.com/january-31-2013-smoked-bologna-great-superbowl-food?fbclid=IwAR2LDPC2d4yUY7kZBX3D4TNI8990xWkfR2SiZtxHvXtgsU3fqWqd08thUik (https://www.smoking-meat.com/january-31-2013-smoked-bologna-great-superbowl-food?fbclid=IwAR2LDPC2d4yUY7kZBX3D4TNI8990xWkfR2SiZtxHvXtgsU3fqWqd08thUik)

The Smoked Oklahoma Prime Rib
(https://www.smoking-meat.com/image-files/IMG_7596-2000x1333-686x458.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 08, 2020, 12:21:27 PM

That's a joke, right? :57:

I mean, an intentional one?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on December 08, 2020, 12:47:57 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 08, 2020, 09:14:29 AM

It takes a while. 20 years in Southern California and I'm nowhere near as tolerant of cold as I was then... But still much more tolerant of cold than the natives here.

I spent the summer of 1982 in San Antonio were it felt like the surface of the sun everyday. The morning I got back to Ohio, the temp was in the mid 50's and I was freezing. So for me, it took about 3 months to "thin my blood" so to say. However, it didn't take long to build my tolerance for the cold back up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 08, 2020, 12:57:02 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 08, 2020, 12:21:27 PM

That's a joke, right? :57:

I mean, an intentional one?

the land thieves are the butt of many jokes

they've earned it, for the most part

(https://www.smoking-meat.com/image-files/IMG_7632-2000x1333-686x458.jpg)
finished product coming out of the Oklahoma Joe smoker
or maybe just warmed up.  I guess it gets blacker before it's done
smoke ring???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 08, 2020, 12:58:22 PM

You'd all go blind from reading what I think that thing looks like.


That being said, I bet it tastes good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 08, 2020, 01:00:03 PM

If/when I visit my brother, I think we'll try it with a case of Budweiser

and a couple football games on the boob tube

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 08, 2020, 01:54:23 PM

Ah now I get it, okie version of prime rib.  :)

Overall though, I agree with OAM-- it probably tastes pretty darn good. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 08, 2020, 02:05:51 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 08, 2020, 01:54:23 PM

Overall though, I agree with OAM

Damn fool ya just had to go and trigger the Apocalypse,didn't cha?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 08, 2020, 04:54:18 PM

This is unreal, but not unbelievable. It's Chicago.

Chicago alderman’s Ann Sather restaurant facing up to $10,500 in possible fines for indoor dining violations - Chicago Tribune (https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-coronavirus-chicago-tunney-ann-sather-city-fines-20201208-q5tcop4oara53n44fp4y2qquby-story.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 08, 2020, 05:30:18 PM

Sorry CW,

Just joking with y'all

https://www.smoking-meat.com/january-31-2013-smoked-bologna-great-superbowl-food?fbclid=IwAR2LDPC2d4yUY7kZBX3D4TNI8990xWkfR2SiZtxHvXtgsU3fqWqd08thUik (https://www.smoking-meat.com/january-31-2013-smoked-bologna-great-superbowl-food?fbclid=IwAR2LDPC2d4yUY7kZBX3D4TNI8990xWkfR2SiZtxHvXtgsU3fqWqd08thUik)

Ingredients

5 lb chub of bologna
1/4 cup of Jeff's barbecue sauce (Purchase formula here | Purchase bottled sauce)
1/4 cup of yellow mustard (hotdog mustard)
Jeff's original rub (Purchase formula here | Purchase bottled rub)

Directions

Remove the wax or paper from the 5 lb chub. Cut the bottom off to give it a flat place to sit and keep it from rolling.


Using a sharp knife, make vertical cuts or slices in the bologna about 3/4 of the way through and at about 1/2 inch intervals.

Slather on some of the “Jeff's Mustard Sauce” (recipe shown above) making sure to get it down in between the slices as much as possible. Be generous with this stuff!
Sprinkle Jeff's original rub onto the outside of the chub, making sure to get it on the sides and ends as well.

Place the Oklahoma Prime Rib into a 225°F smoker for about 2 hours using pecan or your favorite smoking wood.

When it's done smoking, slice and serve.



Jeff Phillips here.. owner and originator of the smoking-meat.com website.

Probably a rich arrogant Texan

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on December 08, 2020, 05:30:25 PM

Smoked Oklahoma prime rib looks like the derogatory term for a large chub of Oscar Meyer baloney coated with Montreal steak seasoning.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 09, 2020, 03:27:02 PM

If you ever visit Hilton Head, the Jazz Corner is a don't miss.  Great food and great live performances.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 10, 2020, 12:17:32 PM

Having some leftover baby back ribs for breakfast.

Take that, egg lobby!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 10, 2020, 12:36:23 PM

Nice try, but that pig was once a fertilized egg. 

Resistance is futile. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 10, 2020, 12:36:27 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 10, 2020, 12:17:32 PM

Having some leftover baby back ribs for breakfast.

Take that, egg lobby!

For lunch I just had leftover enchiladas...

...topped with a fried egg.



All Hail the Egg Lobby!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 10, 2020, 12:49:31 PM

I had leftover Bolognese for breakfast. No eggs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 10, 2020, 01:00:54 PM

I had broasted chicken wings last night with Grim Reaper sauce

and some french fried taters

was near 60 degrees here yesterday afternoon - played 23 holes of golf, drank 12 Budweisers and two shots of fireball.  Then went to the bar for wings and more Budweiser.

twas a fine December 9th in NW Iowa

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 10, 2020, 01:08:55 PM

Hit 79 yesterday here at my casa. Only supposed to get up to 78 today.

I love that wintery weather!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 10, 2020, 03:04:13 PM

We lucked out weatherwise in HH, back in the ATL now, where it is nice weather as well.

Always nice to get good seafood.  It's a five hour drive and I'm a bit tired.  Traffic on I-75 of course was rather dense.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 10, 2020, 03:52:48 PM

Hit the driving range today. Man, if I could hit 'em like that on the actual course, I'd be pretty good at this golf thing!

Bit chilly though, only a high of 65 today. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 10, 2020, 04:05:52 PM

IT RAINED!!!!!!!!

First time since summer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 10, 2020, 04:13:37 PM

It's my understanding you're going to have that in a Desert

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 10, 2020, 04:15:30 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/lsB00ED.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 10, 2020, 04:26:56 PM

That's exactly what I was thinking,Fookin' mind reader,ya got me on the Real Genuis quote also.That young comedian special he did in '84 was classic

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 10, 2020, 04:35:33 PM

I got to see Sam Kinison at one of his last tour stops before he died.  He was even better live in concert.  Just awesome.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 10, 2020, 04:39:25 PM

"Should of shot your ass in Danang when I had the chance"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 10, 2020, 05:05:42 PM

when "experts" talk about water shortages, they never refer to North and South Dakota

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 10, 2020, 05:14:45 PM

Okay FF I'll bite where's that going?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 10, 2020, 07:08:44 PM

I'm guessing the water pipeline that some billionaire oil guy from Oklahoma was going to build would take water to the dessert  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 10, 2020, 07:32:47 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 10, 2020, 04:15:30 PM

[img width=500 height=356.997]https://i.imgur.com/lsB00ED.png[/img]

have you seen his routine where he's Jesus trying to explain to his wife why he was getting home late

finally he screams "I was dead"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 10, 2020, 07:36:18 PM

I found it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4rbobz9Ylo


Its a little rough so be careful with kids around

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 10, 2020, 08:20:11 PM

(https://scontent.fdsm1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p180x540/131257128_3646828625403126_8088604272790935973_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=hVz_3D4b2g0AX__0s3h&_nc_ht=scontent.fdsm1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=7395a45ddd1a15a8b48ab35b5c74e6e8&oe=5FF90763)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 11, 2020, 12:17:42 AM

https://youtu.be/9GXPd0fnpKw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 11, 2020, 12:42:14 AM

Since 1970, by win %:
1. Alabama
2. Georgia
3. Florida
4. Auburn
5. LSU
6. Tennessee

.
That's 50 years.  UT is boring.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2020, 07:25:39 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/RzDvxjf.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 11, 2020, 08:22:28 AM

NICE!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 11, 2020, 04:48:57 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 11, 2020, 12:42:14 AM

Since 1970, by win %:
1. Alabama
2. Georgia
3. Florida
4. Auburn
5. LSU
6. Tennessee

.
That's 50 years.  UT is boring.

not sure where you get your data but here is what I found


https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/College-football-winningest-programs-Alabama-Crimson-Tide-Ohio-State-Buckeyes-Texas-Longhorns-Georgia-Bulldogs-USC-Trojans-145649289/#145649289_14


1   Ohio St
2   Oklahoma
3   Alabama
4   Nebraska
5   Penn St
6   Michigan
7   Boise St
8   USC
9   Florida St
10 Georgia
12 Texas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on December 11, 2020, 04:50:09 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 11, 2020, 04:48:57 PM

not sure where you get your data but here is what I found


https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/College-football-winningest-programs-Alabama-Crimson-Tide-Ohio-State-Buckeyes-Texas-Longhorns-Georgia-Bulldogs-USC-Trojans-145649289/#145649289_14


1  Ohio St
2  Oklahoma
3  Alabama
4  Nebraska
5  Penn St
6  Michigan
7  Boise St
8  USC
9  Florida St
10 Georgia
12 Texas

Science😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2020, 05:59:06 PM

Gunshow - Glenwood Park, Atlanta, GA (gunshowatl.com) (https://gunshowatl.com/?_ga=2.2680688.1367248677.1607727381-561561140.1607727381)

One of the top rated restaurants in the ATL.

$99 per person.

Chef Kevin Gillespie’s restaurant Gunshow offers a bold, interactive take on the traditional dining experience. Dishes are presented to guests, at their tables, by the chef that prepared the dish. Cocktails are prepared table side on a rolling cart. Diners will receive 8-10 dishes, each meant to be shared between two people for a fixed price of $99 per person. Taxes, gratuity, and beverages are in addition. Reservations are required.






READ MOREABOUT US (https://gunshowatl.com/atlanta-glenwood-park-gunshow-about)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 11, 2020, 06:09:12 PM

kinda hoity toity aint it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on December 11, 2020, 06:36:18 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 11, 2020, 04:48:57 PM

not sure where you get your data but here is what I found


https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/College-football-winningest-programs-Alabama-Crimson-Tide-Ohio-State-Buckeyes-Texas-Longhorns-Georgia-Bulldogs-USC-Trojans-145649289/#145649289_14


1  Ohio St
2  Oklahoma
3  Alabama
4  Nebraska
5  Penn St
6  Michigan
7  Boise St
8  USC
9  Florida St
10 Georgia
12 Texas

OAM only listed SEC teams.
They are the only ones that matter, are they not?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2020, 06:39:09 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 11, 2020, 06:09:12 PM

kinda hoity toity aint it?

Yup, haven't been, called to make a reservation and they wanted my credit card for a no show - $75.

I hear it's good.  Whatever.  Probably will try it soon enough.  I'm overwhelmed with new places to try.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2020, 06:39:38 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on December 11, 2020, 06:36:18 PM

OAM only listed SEC teams.
They are the only ones that matter, are they not?

Well, they just mean more of course.

I see they signed a TV contract with ABC/ESPN.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 11, 2020, 07:24:10 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 11, 2020, 06:39:09 PM

Yup, haven't been, called to make a reservation and they wanted my credit card for a no show - $75.

I hear it's good.  Whatever.  Probably will try it soon enough.  I'm overwhelmed with new places to try.

I'd find a few other spots to try until a buyer came to town
use someone's company credit card

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 11, 2020, 08:52:54 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 11, 2020, 06:39:09 PM

Yup, haven't been, called to make a reservation and they wanted my credit card for a no show - $75.

I hear it's good.  Whatever.  Probably will try it soon enough.  I'm overwhelmed with new places to try.

there would have to be a naked girl give me a lap dance for me to pay that much

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 11, 2020, 09:01:41 PM

I could possibly pay $99 for a meal, but there better be some Wagyu Beef and other top shelf food

AND top shelf drinks would need to be included

I'll give the extra $25 for a tip

I've never tried Wagyu.  Don't really think it could be that much better than a prime steak from Iowa

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2020, 10:20:15 PM

Wagyu is really good.  Once had  wagyu hotdog.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 11, 2020, 10:35:47 PM

just doesn't seem right

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 12, 2020, 08:23:27 AM

I'll take a NW Iowa steak, please.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 12, 2020, 08:40:45 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 11, 2020, 10:35:47 PM

just doesn't seem right

I concur, really, but I've had a few steaks and they are really really good, no doubt.  They are like prime cuts but less fatty somehow in my experience.

Are they worth the money to me?  Nope, maybe special occasion worthy, maybe.  I prefer having "more elegant" fare dining out though.  I can do a pretty good steak here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 12, 2020, 08:44:30 AM

There is a local steak place called "STK" that we've talked about visiting but have never dined there.  They had a deal on buy a $100 gift card and get a $50 bonus gift card so I did it.  Haven't been yet, the $50 is limited to 3 months after 1/1/21.

STK Atlanta | Steakhouse, Seafood, & Drinks (stksteakhouse.com) (https://stksteakhouse.com/venues/atlanta/)

I just checked their menu, it ain't cheap at all.  Huh.  Probably be a one time deal for us.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 12, 2020, 09:21:36 AM

obviously, Cincy is living right

https://neurosciencenews.com/cheese-wine-cognition-17408/ (https://neurosciencenews.com/cheese-wine-cognition-17408/)


Here are four of the most significant findings from the study:

1- Cheese, by far, was shown to be the most protective food against age-related cognitive problems, even late into life;
2 - The daily consumption of alchohol, particularly red wine, was related to improvements in cognitive function;
3 - Weekly consumption of lamb, but not other red meats, was shown to improve long-term cognitive prowess; and
4 - Excessive consumption of salt is bad, but only individuals already at risk for Alzheimer’s Disease may need to watch their intake to avoid cognitive problems over time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 12, 2020, 10:00:45 AM

Well shoot I got the cheese and wine part covered.  I guess I need more lamb.  And I don't use much salt at all whilst cooking, and rarely add salt to anything afterward.

Well not entirely true.  The brisket rub uses quite a bit of salt, and cracked black pepper.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on December 12, 2020, 10:06:20 AM

I wish Kroger would stock more goat

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 12, 2020, 10:15:31 AM

Go find a middle eastern market - or some Hill Folk

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 12, 2020, 10:25:33 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 12, 2020, 08:44:30 AM

There is a local steak place called "STK" that we've talked about visiting but have never dined there.  They had a deal on buy a $100 gift card and get a $50 bonus gift card so I did it.  Haven't been yet, the $50 is limited to 3 months after 1/1/21.

STK Atlanta | Steakhouse, Seafood, & Drinks (stksteakhouse.com) (https://stksteakhouse.com/venues/atlanta/)

I just checked their menu, it ain't cheap at all.  Huh.  Probably be a one time deal for us.

Apparently a chain. Judging by their web site it'll probably be good, but overpriced for the "atmosphere"... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 12, 2020, 10:26:10 AM

Salt is life. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 12, 2020, 10:26:22 AM

the latinos in the area eat a lot of goat, but I'm not in the circle

I don't use much salt, plenty of pepper and spice instead

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 12, 2020, 10:50:27 AM

Best goat I ever ate was freshly prepared by a Catholic Priest from Uganda.

Long story.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 12, 2020, 10:52:27 AM

If I ever bump into a Priest from Uganda I'll ask him to fire up the spit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 12, 2020, 10:56:42 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 12, 2020, 10:50:27 AM

Best goat I ever ate was freshly prepared by a Catholic Priest from Uganda.

Long story.

If you ever find your way back to Madison (in summer of course) Dotty's has or had a greek lamb burger, which is among the best food I've had. It's not on the menu at the moment, but I wonder (hope?) that's a COVID thing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 12, 2020, 11:01:47 AM

Never been there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 12, 2020, 11:04:14 AM

Goat's common around here.  

Best goat I ever ate was BBQ'd cabrito on the grounds of a huge Mexican hacienda outside of Saltillo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 12, 2020, 11:05:45 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 12, 2020, 11:04:14 AM

Goat's common around here. 

Sounds freakin' good,I might start looking around here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 12, 2020, 11:20:46 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 12, 2020, 10:25:33 AM

Apparently a chain. Judging by their web site it'll probably be good, but overpriced for the "atmosphere"...

Yup, they have about ten other STKs, so a small chain, and over priced is I think guaranteed.  There is another spot called Bones will is supposedly the best in town, according to some.  The real best place is probably some one off in the 'burbs that gets no press.


About – Bone's Restaurant


Bones opened its doors in 1979 with a mission to provide only the finest service, steaks and seafood. Since that time, we’re proud to have been recognized as the best steakhouse in Atlanta — and by many, as the best steakhouse in America. Prime beef, fresh seafood, and Maine lobster are served along with regional specialties from our Southern roots. (http://bonesrestaurant.com/about/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 12, 2020, 11:23:36 AM

The Whole Foods near us has an aged beef selection and they age it themselves.  I might give one a go.

As many note, a steakhouse is not really unique enough for me to get overly excited about.  I can snare a really good steak at Midtown Meat Shop for $40 or so and open a terrific bottle of wine and fix taters and have a great meal here with little difficulty.

And that on an electric grill, which is far better than I expected.

I'd rather dine out French/Italian/Thai/Vietnamese/Japanese/Persian/whatever.

Have any of youse guys ever dined at an upscale Mexican place?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 12, 2020, 11:32:42 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 12, 2020, 11:23:36 AM

The Whole Foods near us has an aged beef selection and they age it themselves.  I might give one a go.

As many note, a steakhouse is not really unique enough for me to get overly excited about.  I can snare a really good steak at Midtown Meat Shop for $40 or so and open a terrific bottle of wine and fix taters and have a great meal here with little difficulty.

And that on an electric grill, which is far better than I expected.

I'd rather dine out French/Italian/Thai/Vietnamese/Japanese/Persian/whatever.

Have any of youse guys ever dined at an upscale Mexican place?

I almost always order seafood at steakhouses, provided it's one that specializes in both.  I can do great steaks at home, but the quality of seafood a high-end restaurant can get, tends to be better than what I can grab on my own.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 12, 2020, 11:35:23 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 12, 2020, 11:23:36 AM

The Whole Foods near us has an aged beef selection and they age it themselves.  I might give one a go.

I highly recommend the 30-60 day dry aged steaks
I grill them at home when I can find them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 12, 2020, 11:35:40 AM

Oh and a definitely yes on upscale Mexican.  There are a few really well-established Mexican fine dining places in Austin, Fonda San Miguel is probably my favorite.  

https://www.fondasanmiguel.com/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 12, 2020, 11:36:13 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 12, 2020, 11:01:47 AM

Never been there.

Never a bad idea if you can. You might be too fancy for it, but it is a nice mid-priced restaurant of high-quality.

I don’t have much time for Burgers most of the time, but if I’m in Madison, I will ideally like to stop in

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 12, 2020, 12:12:13 PM

I'm not fancy... Trust me. IF given a choice, my last meal would be a burger and fries.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 12, 2020, 12:14:00 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 12, 2020, 11:35:40 AM

Oh and a definitely yes on upscale Mexican.  There are a few really well-established Mexican fine dining places in Austin, Fonda San Miguel is probably my favorite. 

https://www.fondasanmiguel.com/

Rick Bayless | Topolobampo

 (https://www.rickbayless.com/restaurants/topolobampo/)Unfortunately, I'll probably never get there again. Not only do I want to avoid Chicago, I think this virus is going to kill this and many other places off.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 12, 2020, 12:19:44 PM

Would love to try upscale Mex.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 12, 2020, 02:12:58 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 12, 2020, 12:12:13 PM

I'm not fancy... Trust me. IF given a choice, my last meal would be a burger and fries.

60 day dry aged steak for me
fries would be a fine side

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 12, 2020, 02:17:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 12, 2020, 12:19:44 PM

Would love to try upscale Mex.

only tried upscale Mex in tourist spots in resort areas in Cancun, Cabo, Acapulco, Manzanillo,  and  Ixtapa

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 12, 2020, 02:30:26 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 12, 2020, 02:17:57 PM

only tried upscale Mex in tourist spots in resort areas in Cancun, Cabo, Acapulco, Manzanillo,  and  Ixtapa

Only?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 12, 2020, 02:43:23 PM

the ex wife liked a fancy meal on vacation

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 12, 2020, 11:28:25 PM

No need for a steakhouse when your house already qualifies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 12, 2020, 11:31:18 PM

I'm not a fan of the cold mexican seafood dishes.  I don't understand how anyone could like it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 12, 2020, 11:39:47 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 12, 2020, 11:28:25 PM

No need for a steakhouse when your house already qualifies.

Is that bluecheese on the salad and bacon/cheese on the baked spud & a New York Strip

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 13, 2020, 08:47:32 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/Lyddyn8.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 13, 2020, 08:54:20 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 12, 2020, 11:39:47 PM

Is that bluecheese on the salad and bacon/cheese on the baked spud & a New York Strip

Yep, that's a "deconstructed" wedge salad. Iceberg/onion/tomato/bacon/blue cheese.

Steak is a ribeye. 

Wine is the "Improv" from Ecluse (https://www.eclusewines.com/) in Paso Robles.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 13, 2020, 08:54:54 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 13, 2020, 08:47:32 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/Lyddyn8.jpg)

You're taking the social distancing thing a little too far in your travels, CD...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 13, 2020, 08:55:18 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 13, 2020, 08:47:32 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/Lyddyn8.jpg)
CD - you checking out?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on December 13, 2020, 09:15:00 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 12, 2020, 11:28:25 PM

No need for a steakhouse when your house already qualifies.

 Very nice!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 13, 2020, 09:17:52 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 13, 2020, 08:54:20 AM

Yep, that's a "deconstructed" wedge salad. Iceberg/onion/tomato/bacon/blue cheese.

Steak is a ribeye.

Wine is the "Improv" from Ecluse (https://www.eclusewines.com/) in Paso Robles.

BTW feel free to not post pics anymore

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 13, 2020, 09:35:53 AM

I looked up upscale Mexican restaurants in the ATL.  I got a list of popular restaurants, blech.  Number Ten is a place we go fairly often, but it's clearly a Spanish Tapas kind of place, not bad at all, but Spanish, not Mexican.

Disappoint.

This is perhaps the most upscale in the area, I didn't check them all.

October 2020 (casicieloatl.com) (https://casicieloatl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/CASI-CIELO-DINNER-October-2020.pdf)

It looks decent and one menu item is $43 (steak), but most are in the teens.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 13, 2020, 10:00:27 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 13, 2020, 09:35:53 AM

I looked up upscale Mexican restaurants in the ATL.  I got a list of popular restaurants, blech.  Number Ten is a place we go fairly often, but it's clearly a Spanish Tapas kind of place, not bad at all, but Spanish, not Mexican.

Disappoint.

This is perhaps the most upscale in the area, I didn't check them all.

October 2020 (casicieloatl.com) (https://casicieloatl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/CASI-CIELO-DINNER-October-2020.pdf)

It looks decent and one menu item is $43 (steak), but most are in the teens.

I don’t live so far from you, and man there is a dearth of quality Mexican in this part of the country. Maybe something lower scale?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 13, 2020, 10:04:09 AM

There is "upscale" Mexican? 

Taco truck guy could kick their butt with not but a donkey and an onion to work with. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 13, 2020, 10:04:49 AM

We have "good Mexican" places all over here, in my view, places where we're the only nonHispanics, but they tend to be inexpensive.

I was pondering an "upscale" Mexican place, like  the French place we like, where the entrees range from $20-50.  Might not be any better than the holes in the wall.

,[33.64992986551487,-85.37987876699218],null,[33.8970722,-84.78936363027343],10]"]buford highway mexican restaurants - Google Search (http://"https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk02ZQnYfu2LmVOzt1vsRba5CBIjaQQ:1607871836092&source=hp&ei=VC3WX9nfJ8y45gLLxZzwAw&q=buford highway mexican restaurants&oq=buford+highway+mexican&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQARgAMgoIABDJAxAUEIcCMgIIADIGCAAQFhAeMgYIABAWEB4yBggAEBYQHjIGCAAQFhAeMgYIABAWEB4yBggAEBYQHjICCCYyAggmOgQIIxAnOgoILhDHARCvARAnOgQIABBDOgQILhBDOgUIABCRAjoKCC4QxwEQrwEQQzoLCC4QsQMQxwEQowI6BwguELEDEEM6BwgAELEDEEM6CAguEMcBEK8BOgUIABCxAzoKCAAQsQMQgwEQQzoHCAAQyQMQQzoHCAAQFBCHAjoFCC4QsQM6DgguEMcBEK8BEMkDEJMCUKwHWLojYPU2aABwAHgBgAGoAYgB0g6SAQQxOC40mAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpeg&sclient=psy-ab&tbs=lf:1,lf_ui:9&tbm=lcl&rflfq=1&num=10&rldimm=4639825846695743720&lqi=CiJidWZvcmQgaGlnaHdheSBtZXhpY2FuIHJlc3RhdXJhbnRzSIeph6zmgICACFpFChNtZXhpY2FuIHJlc3RhdXJhbnRzEAIQAxgAGAEYAhgDIiJidWZvcmQgaGlnaHdheSBtZXhpY2FuIHJlc3RhdXJhbnRz&phdesc=2iE2ek2vutY&ved=2ahUKEwjxrImtncvtAhXDrVkKHbkODQsQvS4wAHoECAIQQQ&rlst=f#rlfi=hd:;si:4639825846695743720,l,CiJidWZvcmQgaGlnaHdheSBtZXhpY2FuIHJlc3RhdXJhbnRzSIeph6zmgICACFpFChNtZXhpY2FuIHJlc3RhdXJhbnRzEAIQAxgAGAEYAhgDIiJidWZvcmQgaGlnaHdheSBtZXhpY2FuIHJlc3RhdXJhbnRz,y,2iE2ek2vutY;mv:[[34.14350033842861,-84.19884849355468)

Buford Highway is "famous" for Mex. and the ones we've tried are good, IMHO.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 13, 2020, 10:06:18 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on December 13, 2020, 10:04:09 AM

There is "upscale" Mexican?

Taco truck guy could kick their butt with not but a donkey and an onion to work with.

That was my question.  We have "upscale" French, Spanish, German, Italian, Japanese, Chinese, Thai, Vietnamese, etc., but upscale Mexican sounds like an oxymoron.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 13, 2020, 10:22:58 AM

Do they have upscale soul food in Atlanta? 

Chitterlings and gizzards at $100 a plate? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 13, 2020, 10:27:24 AM

For the reasons y'all are calling out, "upscale Mexican" is a tough sell, especially down here when every single strip center has a Mexican or Tex-Mex place in it.

That's why they tend to only do "upscale" for interior and coastal Mexican, and not Tex-Mex. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 13, 2020, 10:28:10 AM

Upscale Mexican is probably the best meal I've ever eaten. The imagination alone was incredible. 

And, no. No tacos, burritos, enchiladas.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 13, 2020, 10:34:16 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 13, 2020, 10:28:10 AM

Upscale Mexican is probably the best meal I've ever eaten. The imagination alone was incredible.

And, no. No tacos, burritos, enchiladas.

Yup, interior and coastal Mexican have some amazing flavor combinations.  But down here there are tons of interior and coastal Mexican places that aren't "upscale" and are still delicious, so the "upscale" really refers more to the quality of ingredients and how thoughtfully the menu is curated.

The "regular" places are going to serve traditional dishes from family recipes, while the upscale joints are going to get more creative with the ingredients.  Both can be excellent of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 13, 2020, 10:38:38 AM

The carne asada I had was a ribeye center/filet, a 28 ingredient mole and fois gras, with a diakon radish salad. 

That was one of seven courses.

Even the wine pairings were brilliant.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 13, 2020, 10:50:11 AM

there's so much excellent Mexican here that is inexpensive, there's really no need to search out something that costs 3 or 4 times as much

now the atmosphere of the dining experience is what I'd pay more money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 13, 2020, 11:07:08 AM

That's the idea. The food at these places is unlike anything else.

Think of Mexican flavors prepared using French techniques. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 13, 2020, 11:24:23 AM

sorry, in this part of the country, there aren't many Chefs using French techniques

I have no experience to draw from

might be able to find something like that in Omaha or Minneapolis

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 13, 2020, 11:35:21 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 13, 2020, 11:24:23 AM

sorry, in this part of the country, there aren't many Chefs using French techniques

I have no experience to draw from

might be able to find something like that in Omaha or Minneapolis

Yeah, but in your part of the country a good wine pairing is Taco Bell with Baja Blast. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on December 13, 2020, 11:47:31 AM

The best Mexican food I've had was in Paris.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 13, 2020, 11:51:31 AM

doubt I will ever make it the Paris, but if I do... I certainly won't be eating Mexican

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 13, 2020, 12:02:21 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on December 13, 2020, 11:35:21 AM

Yeah, but in your part of the country a good wine pairing is Taco Bell with Baja Blast.

Perhaps we should try Dago Red with a bag filled from the dollar menu @ Burrito Bizzare

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 13, 2020, 01:28:21 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on December 13, 2020, 11:47:31 AM

The best Mexican food I've had was in Paris.

The worst Mexican food I've ever had was in Nantes, France.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on December 13, 2020, 06:40:15 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 13, 2020, 08:47:32 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/Lyddyn8.jpg)

Beautiful pic!

Do you have ancestors from Wales?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on December 13, 2020, 06:42:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 13, 2020, 10:06:18 AM

That was my question.  We have "upscale" French, Spanish, German, Italian, Japanese, Chinese, Thai, Vietnamese, etc., but upscale Mexican sounds like an oxymoron.

Seems like it would serve what the upscale people in Mexico City eat when they go out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 13, 2020, 06:45:54 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on December 13, 2020, 06:40:15 PM

Beautiful pic!

Do you have ancestors from Wales?

Is that a fat joke?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 13, 2020, 06:46:00 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 13, 2020, 11:51:31 AM

doubt I will ever make it the Paris, but if I do... I certainly won't be eating Mexican

I had Japanese in Paris and "Mexican" in Lyon.  The former was good, the latter was OK, but odd.  I had German in Strasbourg, but that isn't unusual.  Choucoute, I'm not sure how to spell it.

I also had seiche once, not really recommended.

My advise for dining in Paris is to walk until you have not seen an American in 15 minutes, and then walk another 15 minutes, and then find a spot somewhere in a neighborhood.

A thing I have learned about France is that hotel restaurants can be superb, really superb.  I would rarely dine at a Hilton here in the states unless under duress, but I have had great meals at Hiltons in France and Brussels.  We stayed at a B&B in Normandy three nights and dined there every night it was so good.  That was in Bayuex, which is an excellent base for seeing Normandy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 13, 2020, 06:48:22 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on December 13, 2020, 06:40:15 PM

Beautiful pic!

Do you have ancestors from Wales?

My uncle has an extensive genealogy of the family, four sizeable books on it, rather confused books.  Near as I can tell, my surname is a tradename like "Smith" or "Miller" from England.  The first fellow came over early 1600s to Virginia and his brother was ship wrecked in Maine, or landed there by accident, something happened.  There is an island there with my surname, along with a city in Tennessee.

No whales, or Welch, apparently.  I have a good friend named Welch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 13, 2020, 06:48:33 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 13, 2020, 10:28:10 AM

And, no. No tacos, burritos, enchiladas.

What else is there?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on December 13, 2020, 06:59:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 13, 2020, 06:48:22 PM

My uncle has an extensive genealogy of the family, four sizeable books on it, rather confused books.  Near as I can tell, my surname is a tradename like "Smith" or "Miller" from England.  The first fellow came over early 1600s to Virginia and his brother was ship wrecked in Maine, or landed there by accident, something happened.  There is an island there with my surname, along with a city in Tennessee.

No whales, or Welch, apparently.  I have a good friend named Welch.

I just asked because Wales--not home to whales or people named Welch--is right in the center.
It occurred to me that your surname name might possibly be an anglicization of a Welsh name that doesn't have any vowels except for letters that are sometimes vowels and sometimes consonants.
But evidently not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 13, 2020, 07:18:32 PM

I got some more really good feedback on my book from an Army guy whose son graduated from VMI.  I have some work to do.  He did say he enjoyed the book after it "got going".  I may need to trim/cut much of the initial parts.  He called out quite a few typos as well, which I can appreciate.

I called Maxcy Greg General Maxcy in one spot.  Bummer.  He was rather flamboyant apparently, maybe I should flesh him out a bit more.

I don't see how anyone much survived those battles.  At Second Manassas, several regiments stood in line in the open at 60 yards having at it, with rifled muskets.

I'm also amazed how many of the wounded survived.  And how many disease took, I probably should note that.

Book Three is coming along now, I had to bring in Nathan Forrest of course who takes a liking to our "hero".  Jackson is prepared to assault Grant near Memphis.

So, well, I changed things a bit.  I think Grant is going to win that fight.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 13, 2020, 07:34:12 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 13, 2020, 11:51:31 AM

doubt I will ever make it the Paris, but if I do... I certainly won't be eating Mexican

well, I guess I wouldn't be there for more than a day or two.  a week tops

if I spent more than a couple months I might be tempted to get some Mexican food no matter where I was

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 14, 2020, 08:40:36 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 13, 2020, 07:34:12 PM

well, I guess I wouldn't be there for more than a day or two.  a week tops

if I spent more than a couple months I might be tempted to get some Mexican food no matter where I was

Yeah I'd been in France for over two months when I finally broke down and let the locals drag me to that Mexican place in Nantes.

Big mistake.  Huge.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 14, 2020, 08:42:17 AM

So, the Cleveland Indians are not going to be the Cleveland Indians anymore.

Cancel that.

Cleveland Baseball Team?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on December 14, 2020, 09:39:22 AM

Go Cleveland Spiders!

Burn on.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 14, 2020, 10:03:23 AM

How 'bout the "Cleveland Burning River" ????

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 14, 2020, 10:08:39 AM

Cleveland Rams would be my pick.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 14, 2020, 10:16:56 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on December 14, 2020, 09:39:22 AM

Go Cleveland Spiders!

Burn on.

Or recluses.This is political correctness run amok.

Louis Francis Sockalexis (October 24, 1871 – December 24, 1913), nicknamed The Deerfoot of the Diamond, was an American baseball player. Sockalexis played professional baseball in the National League for three seasons, spending his entire career (1897-1899) as an outfielder for the Cleveland Spiders.

The team name was changed to Indians in his honor

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 14, 2020, 10:20:02 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 14, 2020, 10:03:23 AM

How 'bout the "Cleveland Burning River" ????

The Cleveland Mistake [on the Lake]?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 14, 2020, 10:25:42 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 14, 2020, 10:03:23 AM

How 'bout the "Cleveland Burning River" ????

Great Lakes Brewing named a Beer after it.Rivers had previously caught fire in Chicago,New York and Pittsburgh.Usually when oil/petroleum products were ignited somehow.In Cleveland a barge on the River was leaking oil - as it flowed under a rail road trestle that was being welded/repaired.The good thing to come out of it was it launched Earth Day and the Clean Water Act.And now you know the rest of the story.

If the team relocated in Cali it could be the Burning Countryside ;D

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on December 14, 2020, 12:29:31 PM

TCF Bank is no more. They're being bought out by Huntington Bank, and the name of the New Brickhouse will be changing.

Then again, I've called the Gophers' home the New Brickhouse since the outset, so this doesn't change much.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 14, 2020, 12:33:24 PM

Cleveland Wahoos.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on December 14, 2020, 12:45:56 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on December 12, 2020, 10:06:20 AM

I wish Kroger would stock more goat

A friend of mine that we usually use for our beef supply, also raises goats. I may have to give it a try. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on December 14, 2020, 12:54:13 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 13, 2020, 10:28:10 AM

Upscale Mexican is probably the best meal I've ever eaten. The imagination alone was incredible.

And, no. No tacos, burritos, enchiladas.

The closest I have came to upscale Mexican was Rita's on the Riverwalk in San Antonio. It was pretty good. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 14, 2020, 02:02:47 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on December 14, 2020, 12:45:56 PM

A friend of mine that we usually use for our beef supply, also raises goats. I may have to give it a try.

I'd just stay with the beef.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 14, 2020, 02:42:54 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 14, 2020, 12:33:24 PM

Cleveland Wahoos.Yahoos

Either-or

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on December 15, 2020, 02:23:48 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 14, 2020, 10:16:56 AM

Or recluses.This is political correctness run amok.

Louis Francis Sockalexis (October 24, 1871 – December 24, 1913), nicknamed The Deerfoot of the Diamond, was an American baseball player. Sockalexis played professional baseball in the National League for three seasons, spending his entire career (1897-1899) as an outfielder for the Cleveland Spiders.

The team name was changed to Indians in his honor

I just read the definitive book on the jnfamous 1899 Spiders.  Really enjoyed it.  Anyways. Sockalexis had great promise, incredible prospect and flashes of greatness. cannon of an arm, but I don't think he made it half a full season during his three seasons.  Big time alcohol problems.    The readings I've done which there are many, suggest it isnt entirely clear why Indians was the nickname chosen in 1915, after running through so many names prior to this.  Its more legend than fact that it was solely because of Sockalexis.  It certainly wasn't the girl who wrote the local paper with the suggestion.  I suppose there will some dusting off of these stories. 

I'd support Spiders, which understandably was loathed for some time following the syndicate era which culminated with the 20-134 record in 1899.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on December 15, 2020, 02:31:20 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 14, 2020, 02:02:47 PM

I'd just stay with the beef.

I see it's the time of year for stories proclaiming shock that people in WI like cannibal sandwiches.   The state health people with their annual warning.   I do like it , though not as much as a Lebanese kibbeh nayeh.  Call it steak tartare and throw a yolk in it and the NYT will sing its praises.

For those scoring at home, fairly popular holiday app.  Fresh ground sirloin, served raw, w raw onions and s&p.  Served on cocktail rye.   Memories of it suggest I only remember seeing it served between Thanksgiving and say the Super Bowl.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 15, 2020, 10:35:56 AM

the bar in Crofton, NE serves it in the fall for Husker games

they simply call it Tiger Meat

Crofton is a rural town of around 700 people just south of Yankton, SD, Gavin's Point Dam, and Lewis & Clark Lake

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 15, 2020, 01:42:28 PM

Trump apparently heavily considering to pardon Julian Assange and Edward Snowden on his way out. God I hope he does it. It’s a god damn CRIME what the US intelligence goon squad and corrupt as all hell DoJ has done to both these men. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 15, 2020, 02:10:58 PM

here's a list for Cincy............

https://thegruelingtruth.com/college-football/top10qbs-college-football-history/?fbclid=IwAR3eZrq_O9xUJU86ZEkwddU9Xl4BY1eDHx24hqon3_pii7MBkjCx-jchjmk (https://thegruelingtruth.com/college-football/top10qbs-college-football-history/?fbclid=IwAR3eZrq_O9xUJU86ZEkwddU9Xl4BY1eDHx24hqon3_pii7MBkjCx-jchjmk)

10) Jim Plunkett
Jim Plunkett was the quarterback for Stanford University in the late 1960s.  Plunkett overcame adversity in his first season at Stanford.  He had to have a thyroid operation which caused him to lose his spot as a quarterback on the team.

9) Chris Weinke
Chris Weinke played quarterback for Florida State starting in 1997; he was 25 years old.


8) Michael Vick
This guy played like Superman.  Now he only played two seasons, but if you saw him play in college, you know why he made my list.

7) Joe Namath
Joe Namath played QB for Alabama from 1962 to 1964.  In that time he had a 29-4 record as the starting quarterback.

6) Charlie Ward
Charlie Ward won the 1993 Heisman as the Florida State quarterback.  He also won the Maxwell, O’Brien, and numerous other awards.

5) Doug Flutie
Doug Flutie is  probably most famous for the “Miracle in Miami.”  However, he did quite a bit more at Boston College. The number one achievement was he made Boston College relevant on the national stage.

4) Steve McNair
Steve McNair wanted so much to play college quarterback that he turned down a scholarship from Florida because they offered it to him as a defensive back. I think Florida now regrets that decision.

3) Vince Young
Vince Young was amazing.  We all remember Young’s Texas Longhorns and their epic game for the title against USC. That game showed you what a great college QB Vince Young was, the last few minutes of that game cemented his legend.

2) Tim Tebow
In 2006 he played sparingly. In 2007, he had a 172.5 passer rating, 3,286 passing yards, 32 touchdowns, and only six interceptions.  He also rushed for 895 yards and 23 more touchdowns.

1) Tommie Frazier
Tommie Frazier was an incredible quarterback.  He earned the 1994 and 1995 Orange Bowl Most Valuable Player Awards, the 1995 Johnny Unitas Award, and the 1996 Fiesta Bowl MVP.

Frazier led the Cornhuskers to back-to-back national championships in 1994 and 1995.  These teams are still legendary, the 95 team is considered by many the greatest ever.

Frazier also led his team to four Big Eight Conference Championships and finished with a 33-3 record overall as a starter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2020, 08:00:10 PM

I like lists.  You know the all time SEC passing leader?  Few do.  He's considered to have been a decent QB of course, he passed for over 3,000 yards in each of his 4 years.

He's now an announcer, an "OK" one I'd say, not great.  He's the color guy.  

We should have a list of best lists of all time somewhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 16, 2020, 10:13:36 AM

MERRY CHRISTMAS :-)
A Couple Out Christmas Shopping

Quote

A couple were in a busy shopping center just before Christmas. 
The wife suddenly noticed that her husband was missing and as they had a lot to do, she called him on her cellphone.

The wife said "Where are you, you know we have lots to do."
He said "You remember the jewelery store we went into about 10 years ago, and you fell in love with that diamond necklace? 
I could not afford it at the time and I said that one day I would get it for you?"

Tears started to flow down her cheek and she got all choked up…
"Yes, I do remember that shop." she replied.
"Well, I am in the golf shop next door to that." 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 16, 2020, 10:49:41 AM

The wife went to Kroger this morning and came home complaining about how rude the check out lady was.  

I asked her if she used the self checkout lane.

She isn't speaking to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 16, 2020, 11:46:07 AM

If Joe Namath was an all-time top 10 college QB, then I was an all-time top 10 college WR.  
People's inability/unwillingness to detach college from NFL success will forever drive me crazy.  And he wasn't that good in the NFL, either.  If he was Joe Blow on the Eagles with the exact same career, no one would remember him today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 16, 2020, 12:18:27 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 16, 2020, 11:46:07 AM

If Joe Namath was an all-time top 10 college QB, then I was an all-time top 10 college WR. 

Well, Joe WAS a college QB of some note of course.  I was not a college WR of any note at any level.

These top ten lists either rely on opinions or some set of "statistics" selected using opinions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 16, 2020, 01:20:43 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 16, 2020, 11:46:07 AM

If Joe Namath was an all-time top 10 college QB, then I was an all-time top 10 college WR. 
People's inability/unwillingness to detach college from NFL success will forever drive me crazy.  And he wasn't that good in the NFL, either.  If he was Joe Blow on the Eagles with the exact same career, no one would remember him today.

from the article ....


Perhaps the greatest compliment a football player could receive was given to Joe Namath.  Paul “Bear” Bryant said that Namath was the greatest athlete he ever coached.

Namath’s stats weren’t all that impressive, but it was the way he played the game that lands him on my list.  Fearless, confident, and never backing down.  Joe Namath quarterbacked the Alabama Crimson Tide during the civil rights upheaval of the 1960s.

Joe Namath stood up for African Americans against some of his white teammates.  He didn’t back down, he stood for what was right, and for that and much more he makes my list. His pro career was never what it could have been because of the knee injuries that nagged him his entire career. Watch him before the knee injuries started at Alabama, and you will realize sadly Namath would have been one of the greatest QB’s to ever play at any level without the injuries.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on December 16, 2020, 10:55:53 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 16, 2020, 01:20:43 PM

from the article ....


Perhaps the greatest compliment a football player could receive was given to Joe Namath.  Paul “Bear” Bryant said that Namath was the greatest athlete he ever coached.

Namath’s stats weren’t all that impressive, but it was the way he played the game that lands him on my list.  Fearless, confident, and never backing down.  Joe Namath quarterbacked the Alabama Crimson Tide during the civil rights upheaval of the 1960s.

Joe Namath stood up for African Americans against some of his white teammates.  He didn’t back down, he stood for what was right, and for that and much more he makes my list. His pro career was never what it could have been because of the knee injuries that nagged him his entire career. Watch him before the knee injuries started at Alabama, and you will realize sadly Namath would have been one of the greatest QB’s to ever play at any level without the injuries.

Just for clarification, Namath had no black teammates at Alabama.  Bama didn't integrate until 1971.  USC--with an all-black backfield--beating-down the Tide 42-21 in Birmingham in 1970 was what got the Bama PTBs to support integration of the football team.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2020, 09:23:39 AM

Yeah....buncha crap.  I wonder how many "best athletes" Bear Bryant coached.  

I guess I'd rather have a meager coward at QB who played better, lol.  But I'm usually wrong.  

It seems that maybe Namath is past his drinking problems, so that's good.  I hope he's able to keep that up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2020, 09:24:53 AM

I got an apple pie this morning from McDonalds.  For 59 cents, it's a great deal.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2020, 11:16:02 AM

no egg?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on December 17, 2020, 11:19:38 AM

Sausage McMuffins for a buck apiece are nothing to sneeze at.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 17, 2020, 11:35:34 AM

Where you guys live, is the "value menu" still a dollar menu?

I don't know if it's just CA prices, but it seems like most of what the items I used to recall being a dollar a piece are like $1.79 or higher now. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 17, 2020, 11:42:22 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 17, 2020, 11:35:34 AM

Where you guys live, is the "value menu" still a dollar menu?

I don't know if it's just CA prices, but it seems like most of what the items I used to recall being a dollar a piece are like $1.79 or higher now.

Well I saw that once in Canada. Only there the dollar menu items were only $1.49 instead of $1.79. 

Apparently CA has an even weaker dollar than Canada. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 17, 2020, 11:43:49 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on December 17, 2020, 11:19:38 AM

Sausage McMuffins for a buck apiece are nothing to sneeze at.

I don't love breakfast sausage.  I don't hate it, but I don't love it.  I'd rather have the McMuffin in OG form, with Canadian bacon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on December 17, 2020, 12:15:57 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2020, 09:24:53 AM

I got an apple pie this morning from McDonalds.  For 59 cents, it's a great deal. 

Its not the type though which had to have been concocted in a laboratory.   They never did bring that back, have they?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2020, 12:24:56 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on December 17, 2020, 11:19:38 AM

Sausage McMuffins for a buck apiece are nothing to sneeze at.

That is my go to when we're traveling, with a senior coffee.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2020, 12:27:45 PM

The wife it seems nearly always wants something changed, or added, or finagled.  I can't quite convince her this results in mangled orders.  She'll order an egg white McMuffin, but then with cheese, and sauce on the side, and no potatoes, but a Coke, and no bacon.  Or something.  With a French accent through a mask.

In France, you order with a flat panel kiosk thingee so you can do that.  In the US, the trainee cashier who started working an hour before gets it all mangled every time.  She ends up with a quarter pounder and fries and can't understand why.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on December 18, 2020, 07:55:23 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2020, 09:24:53 AM

I got an apple pie this morning from McDonalds.  For 59 cents, it's a great deal. 

It was probably made by Bama Pie, Inc., in Tulsa.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 18, 2020, 08:26:12 AM

I work with a guy who used to work in the plant in Ohio that produced the Jack In The Box tacos.  They make them fresh and then flash-freeze them.   He was in IT but they allowed all sorts of employees to perform QC by eating samples from each batch.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 18, 2020, 08:32:16 AM

Quote from: MarqHusker on December 17, 2020, 12:15:57 PM

Its not the type though which had to have been concocted in a laboratory.  They never did bring that back, have they?

When it used to be deep fried in lard? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on December 18, 2020, 08:45:43 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 17, 2020, 11:43:49 AM

I don't love breakfast sausage.  I don't hate it, but I don't love it.  I'd rather have the McMuffin in OG form, with Canadian bacon.

I'm not thrilled with breakfast sausage either. But...

-You need to be at work at 0600
-A McD's is at the exit where you get off to go to work, and the drive-thru is open 24 hours
-Sometimes I overslept to where I needed to be in the car and moving 2 minutes after waking up

All of that meant that during the time I worked there, I ate more sausage mcmuffins than I want to admit.  Needless to say, I don't eat many anymore.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 18, 2020, 08:49:36 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on December 18, 2020, 08:45:43 AM

I'm not thrilled with breakfast sausage either. But...

-You need to be at work at 0600
-A McD's is at the exit where you get off to go to work, and the drive-thru is open 24 hours
-Sometimes I overslept to where I needed to be in the car and moving 2 minutes after waking up

All of that meant that during the time I worked there, I ate more sausage mcmuffins than I want to admit.  Needless to say, I don't eat many anymore.

Do y'all get those Jimmy Dean frozen microwaveable sausage/egg/cheese biscuits up there?  I'll admit that those are a guilty pleasure for me.  We used to eat them at the cabin on my friend's ranch, at like 5 AM before heading out to go hunting.  Back in college I could put down 5 or 6 pretty easy.  For a long hunting weekend, we'd buy about 10 big boxes of those, and still run out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 18, 2020, 08:49:59 AM

A light loafered George Costanza slinging McDLTs in the 80s, while singing and dancing. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTSdUOC8Kac&ab_channel=ArcadeSpookyTree

Of the many problems with that idea, there is one that I did not notice until now. They insert the cheese between the tomato and the lettuce? Why on Earth would anybody do that? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 18, 2020, 08:54:46 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on December 18, 2020, 08:49:59 AM

Of the many problems with that idea, there is one that I did not notice until now. They insert the cheese between the tomato and the lettuce? Why on Earth would anybody do that?

New Coke.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 18, 2020, 08:55:31 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 18, 2020, 08:49:36 AM

Do y'all get those Jimmy Dean frozen microwaveable sausage/egg/cheese biscuits up there?  I'll admit that those are a guilty pleasure for me. 

Bob Evans,same-same,just never cared for breakfast sausage that much.In a pinch I always liked BK's Bacon/Egg/Cheese croissant but the micro's will do the trick

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 18, 2020, 08:57:36 AM

We get Bob Evans and Jimmy Dean here, and we did in Chicago/Wisconsin too. There are some others doing it too, like Special K, for example.

My wife gets me the ones with turkey sausage.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 18, 2020, 08:58:42 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 17, 2020, 12:27:45 PM

The wife it seems nearly always wants something changed, or added, or finagled. 

Including spouses?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 18, 2020, 09:01:37 AM

I frequent the McDonalds halfway to my work, as I go in early and nothing else is open.  The original egg mcmuffin is one of the nastiest things i've ever eaten.  I can sometimes get something with their scrambled egg on it, but not that egg white crap with a tiny sliver of ham?  Who came up with that??  It's god-awful.

I get the sausage mcmuffn with no egg.  And about pricing - the cost of a hash brown there is now comical.  I swear, in just the past month, it's gone from 1.49 to 1.79 and now 1.99.  Because of the deal they have, 1 hash brown now costs the same as 2 sausage mcmuffins.

Anyway, I usually toss the top half of the muffin out so the meat-to-bread ratio is better.  If i'm feeling adventurous, I'll place the hash brown in the sausage mcmuffin - that's hearty.  And heart diseasy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 18, 2020, 09:01:43 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 18, 2020, 08:54:46 AM

New Coke.

Yeah but has there ever been another burger where there was a barrier between the meat and the cheese? I'm not even talking about the cheese being on the cold side, which is rather peculiar in it's own right. But they didn't even have the cheese as the top layer, so that it is the first thing that comes in contact with the meat once you put it together. Instead it had two tomatoes between the meat and the cheese, and then the lettuce on top of the cheese.

That's just effed up, man.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/gHA4wkN-VVQ/hqdefault.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 18, 2020, 10:28:23 AM

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34992832/battery-price-drop-2023/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&fbclid=IwAR0KgC6Mwl1RaalhPjyXh-GtETyZ3zNGJrkysm4W_0RrZ2PDwu6ZEsxlHWw


Along with autonomous, would change things a lot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 18, 2020, 10:45:10 AM

You guys eat some nasty stuff

Just say no to fast food

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 18, 2020, 11:10:54 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 18, 2020, 10:28:23 AM

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34992832/battery-price-drop-2023/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&fbclid=IwAR0KgC6Mwl1RaalhPjyXh-GtETyZ3zNGJrkysm4W_0RrZ2PDwu6ZEsxlHWw


Along with autonomous, would change things a lot.

As I've said, I plan to keep my Ford Flex at the very least until child #1 leaves the house... He just turned 13. 

Which puts me roughly in the car market again sometime around 2026, at which time I believe the cost and infrastructure of EV should hopefully be in line where I have it as an option. At that point (wherever I'm actually living) I also plan to again be a homeowner and as the kids age out and my child support payments go away, I'll be in a better place to afford an EV even if they're not as low in price as I'd like. 

I sure wish the ex would find someone who would put up with her shit--would save me a hell of a lot each year in alimony.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 18, 2020, 11:11:35 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 18, 2020, 08:58:42 AM

Including spouses?

Not yet, anyway.  I guess in France it's more common to deliver some kind of highly personalized order, even though the term "menu" there means "combo meal".

It causes a disturbance in the force every time.

She also insists on tapping her credit card instead of just swiping it, I have no clue why.  I guess it's a new thing.  She'll stand there tapping with the guy telling her it isn't working for 30 seconds.  I would guess the success rate is maybe 15%, and time taken is significant.

Just swipe the dang card or let me pay.

At least at our French restaurant, most of the servers are French.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 18, 2020, 11:12:38 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 18, 2020, 10:45:10 AM

You guys eat some nasty stuff

Just say no to fast food

Yes, very much, with some exceptions, like when traveling.  Fast food is the Devil.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 18, 2020, 11:14:33 AM

There are more EVs sold (new) today than cars with manual transmissions (neither is very high of course).

If you compare say a Chevy Volt with a Chevy Cruze today, the calculus favors the latter by quite a bit.  If someday they cost the same, operating costs would favor the EV, even with $2 gas.  Of course, it would behoove owners to pay for a home charging station.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 18, 2020, 11:45:59 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 18, 2020, 10:45:10 AM

You guys eat some nasty stuff

Just say no to fast food

The Forum's in good hands having you as our health guru.I know the fizzy spring water,grain based elixir you espouse has done wonders.And of course pushing the ticker to the limit lugging those clubs is an inspiration to us all - you get a Yuengling

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 18, 2020, 11:51:13 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 18, 2020, 11:45:59 AM

The Forum's in goof hands having you as our health guru.I know the fizzy spring water,grain based elixir you espouse has done wonders.And of course pushing the ticker to the limit lugging those clubs is an inspiration to us all - you get a Yuengling

Be careful with that Yuengling. If his ticker is already pushed to the limit, his shock at the explosion of flavor in a Yuengling compared to his yellow fizzy water might just push that ticker over the edge. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 18, 2020, 07:46:28 PM

2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E First Test: Faster Horses (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/mustang-mach-e/2021/2021-ford-mustang-mach-e-first-test-review/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR2xFNAcvlIk29qiuiINz_K76qmIDZYAG0siJRaAIaHGfUM3-R8bgg1MsX0)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on December 18, 2020, 08:16:47 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 18, 2020, 07:46:28 PM

2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E First Test: Faster Horses (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/mustang-mach-e/2021/2021-ford-mustang-mach-e-first-test-review/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR2xFNAcvlIk29qiuiINz_K76qmIDZYAG0siJRaAIaHGfUM3-R8bgg1MsX0)

I'd rather have an electric SUV Porsche 911.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 18, 2020, 08:25:42 PM

I'm still waiting for the Toyota Supra electric SUV. I hear it seats seven.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 18, 2020, 08:27:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 18, 2020, 11:12:38 AM

Yes, very much, with some exceptions, like when traveling.  Fast food is the Devil.

traveling and some exceptions are merely excuses

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2020, 06:45:57 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/EFO7JpH.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on December 19, 2020, 07:38:22 PM

Don't eat the "Cannibal Sandwich"/"Tiger Meat," say Wisconsin public health officials. (https://news.yahoo.com/dont-eat-cannibal-sandwich-tiger-180750479.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on December 19, 2020, 07:44:01 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on December 18, 2020, 09:01:43 AM

Yeah but has there ever been another burger where there was a barrier between the meat and the cheese? I'm not even talking about the cheese being on the cold side, which is rather peculiar in it's own right. But they didn't even have the cheese as the top layer, so that it is the first thing that comes in contact with the meat once you put it together. Instead it had two tomatoes between the meat and the cheese, and then the lettuce on top of the cheese.

That's just effed up, man.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/gHA4wkN-VVQ/hqdefault.jpg)

I college at OU, I worked at one of the early "char-broiled" burger places, the original Across the Street restaurant.
The owner/manager had a theory of assembling hamburgers that I internalized.  I will go to my death making burgers the way he taught.
The buns are lightly buttered and toasted.
On the bottom bun goes the spread--mayo, mustard, whatever.  Then come the pickles.  Then comes the lettuce, then the tomato slices.  These make the bed on which the patty lies.
On top of the patty goes the cheese (if you're making a cheeseburger), then the ketchup (or barbecue sauce if you prefer).  Then the top bun.
Very few of the national chains make burgers this way.
They are wrong.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 19, 2020, 08:04:12 PM

If the cheese isn't on the meat, how's it supposed to melt?  Hell, if you're grilling, the cheese goes on the burger on the grill, no?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 19, 2020, 08:18:47 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 19, 2020, 08:04:12 PM

If the cheese isn't on the meat, how's it supposed to melt?  Hell, if you're grilling, the cheese goes on the burger on the grill, no?

Yeah, that's the conundrum in a nutshell. And it isn't like they just did that for the photo op because they consider tomatoes to be more picturesque than a slice of American cheese. The constructed one also had the tomatoes between the meet and the cheese. 


(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/N7radb0Vl9k/hqdefault.jpg)

Just wrong on so many levels. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on December 19, 2020, 08:23:50 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on December 19, 2020, 08:18:47 PM

Yeah, that's the conundrum in a nutshell. And it isn't like they just did that for the photo op because they consider tomatoes to be more picturesque than a slice of American cheese. The constructed one also had the tomatoes between the meet and the cheese.


(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/N7radb0Vl9k/hqdefault.jpg)

Just wrong on so many levels.

Also, the meat sitting on the bottom bun makes it soggy with its leakage of grease and moisture.  That's another reason why the pickles, lettuce, and tomato should be on the bottom.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on December 19, 2020, 08:25:39 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 19, 2020, 08:04:12 PM

If the cheese isn't on the meat, how's it supposed to melt?  Hell, if you're grilling, the cheese goes on the burger on the grill, no?

At the aforementioned Across the Street restaurant, we would put the cheese on the patty just before taking it off the grill.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 19, 2020, 08:32:04 PM

American cheese is a waste.  It's tasteless.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on December 19, 2020, 09:12:36 PM

We used cheddar.  Shredded.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 19, 2020, 09:17:28 PM

When you melt American cheese it becomes a lot like nacho cheese; both in flavor and consistency. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 20, 2020, 06:49:56 AM

Real cheese won't melt.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 20, 2020, 08:33:01 AM

Quote from: CWSooner on December 19, 2020, 08:23:50 PM

Also, the meat sitting on the bottom bun makes it soggy with its leakage of grease and moisture.  That's another reason why the pickles, lettuce, and tomato should be on the bottom.

Well the lettuce for sure to block moisture from the tomatos/pickles also.That's how I do it and always browned the buns on a skillet w/butter

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 20, 2020, 08:34:47 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 20, 2020, 06:49:56 AM

Real cheese won't melt.

It melted when we used steamers at a restaurant I worked at.Brick,Swiss,Goulda,cheddar

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 20, 2020, 08:43:37 AM

They can liquefy.

https://www.finecooking.com/article/the-science-of-melting-cheese

Whether it truly is melting is perhaps a small point.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 20, 2020, 09:01:17 AM

What the hells the diiference?Melt-liquify,stop analyzing and just eat the damn thing - over the sink,properly

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 20, 2020, 10:53:35 AM

Polymers can liquify without melting, see glass transition temperature

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 20, 2020, 11:39:16 AM

Didn't know real cheese was a polymer.Then truth in advertising would state liquified polymer on you burger/pasta/sammich/whatever.Not sure that would sell as good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on December 20, 2020, 11:43:42 AM

you're not melting feta.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 20, 2020, 11:47:21 AM

the cheese lobby is as strong as the egg lobby

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 20, 2020, 11:52:31 AM

Cheese certainly contains polymers which govern consistency.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 20, 2020, 12:09:50 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on December 20, 2020, 11:43:42 AM

you're not melting feta.

No, but you can get it nice and toasty.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 20, 2020, 12:11:30 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 20, 2020, 11:52:31 AM

Cheese certainly contains polymers which govern consistency.

but it melts

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 20, 2020, 12:12:48 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 20, 2020, 11:47:21 AM

the cheese lobby is as strong as the egg lobby

hey cheese it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on December 20, 2020, 05:45:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 20, 2020, 10:53:35 AM

Polymers can liquify without melting, see glass transition temperature

So, is your point that cheese doesn't melt related to cheese not being a solid but rather a very firm gel?
To the layman, shredded cheddar cheese "melts" when you put it on a hot hamburger patty.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on December 20, 2020, 05:46:38 PM

The Cheez-It Bowl--with Miami and FoSu--figures to highlight some truly awful football-costume combinations.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 20, 2020, 05:49:09 PM

The Super Melters: Process Cheese

Process cheeses, including "American" cheese, are cheese products designed to be extremely meltable and nearly impossible to break. This is accomplished by starting with real cheese (usually a young cheddar-style), and blending it with extra milk (for the added water), extra milk protein micelles (for the strong protein structure), and some form of chemical salt that helps prevent proteins from tightening. Because American-style cheeses have so much excess liquid added to them, they have extremely low melting points, making for extra-gooey grilled cheese sandwiches or cheeseburgers. This meltability, of course, comes at the cost of less intense flavor.

A lot of stuff we call cheese it really process cheese.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on December 20, 2020, 06:18:54 PM

But we used cheddar cheese--real cheese--and it "melted."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 20, 2020, 07:00:42 PM

It can liquify, in effect, the modulus goes way down and it starts to flow.  True melting turns a solid into a liquid, like water, very little cohesive forces left in liquid water, just enough to make it not a gas, but it will "flow" readily and fill any complex volume readily and quickly.  "Melted" cheese will not.  It's still viscous goo.

A true melting point is precise and reflects a change of state.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 20, 2020, 09:58:07 PM

in other news....



Connor Culp (Nebraska) blows a kiss to Keith Duncan (Iowa)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 20, 2020, 10:05:19 PM

glad that the playoff game will not be played in Cali, the Governor doesn't deserve the revenue


in other news.............

 Oracle co-founder Larry Ellison has moved from California's Silicon Valley to a Hawaiian island where he owns almost all of the land

The billionaire reported his relocation to the software giant's staff members on Monday, writing in a company-wide email that he would not follow the company's headquarters from Redwood City, Calif., to Austin, Texas.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 21, 2020, 08:32:48 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/786WQBI.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 21, 2020, 08:44:42 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 20, 2020, 07:00:42 PM

It can liquify, in effect, the modulus goes way down and it starts to flow.  True melting turns a solid into a liquid, like water, very little cohesive forces left in liquid water, just enough to make it not a gas, but it will "flow" readily and fill any complex volume readily and quickly.  "Melted" cheese will not.  It's still viscous goo.

A true melting point is precise and reflects a change of state.

It melted,repeat M-E-T-L-T-E-D.Next Frenchie Bistro you're in see if liquify is on the menu.It melts - put it in the steamer for 30 secs,it stayed in form but sagged some what,didn't run off like liquifying would do. :29:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 21, 2020, 08:47:25 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 20, 2020, 10:05:19 PM

glad that the playoff game will not be played in Cali, the Governor doesn't deserve the revenue

Unfortunately that slimeball in a sea of puss still gets paid,just like Miss Hitler Aunt Nancy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 21, 2020, 08:57:15 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 20, 2020, 10:05:19 PM

Oracle co-founder Larry Ellison has moved from California's Silicon Valley to a Hawaiian island where he owns almost all of the land

The billionaire reported his relocation to the software giant's staff members on Monday, writing in a company-wide email that he would not follow the company's headquarters from Redwood City, Calif., to Austin, Texas.

Prolly a smoke screen really moving to Sioux City be my guess

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 21, 2020, 09:09:50 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 20, 2020, 10:05:19 PM

glad that the playoff game will not be played in Cali, the Governor doesn't deserve the revenue


in other news.............

 Oracle co-founder Larry Ellison has moved from California's Silicon Valley to a Hawaiian island where he owns almost all of the land

The billionaire reported his relocation to the software giant's staff members on Monday, writing in a company-wide email that he would not follow the company's headquarters from Redwood City, Calif., to Austin, Texas.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On the other hand, Oracle's current campus in Austin is right next to one of my rental houses, as is the Apple campus, so the value of that home only continues to skyrocket...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 21, 2020, 09:49:16 AM

Dayum branching out there you capitalistic pig dog

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 21, 2020, 10:06:00 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 21, 2020, 09:49:16 AM

Dayum branching out there you capitalistic pig dog

If I learned anything from Lucy van Pelt in Peanuts, it's the value of real estate. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 21, 2020, 10:18:08 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 21, 2020, 09:09:50 AM

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On the other hand, Oracle's current campus in Austin is right next to one of my rental houses, as is the Apple campus, so the value of that home only continues to skyrocket...

my brother hopes for the same

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on December 21, 2020, 10:28:59 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 20, 2020, 07:00:42 PM

It can liquify, in effect, the modulus goes way down and it starts to flow.  True melting turns a solid into a liquid, like water, very little cohesive forces left in liquid water, just enough to make it not a gas, but it will "flow" readily and fill any complex volume readily and quickly.  "Melted" cheese will not.  It's still viscous goo.

A true melting point is precise and reflects a change of state.

Ah, so.

So, when 15-year-old-me was building plastic model airplanes, and heated a sprue over a match to stretch it out into an antenna wire, and instead it caught fire and "melted' into a viscous goo, it didn't really melt.  It just lost its modulus.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 21, 2020, 10:56:21 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 21, 2020, 10:06:00 AM

If I learned anything from Lucy van Pelt in Peanuts, it's the value of real estate. :)

I Should have watched more peanuts


https://youtu.be/sh-J4GSPgAM?t=3

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 21, 2020, 10:58:38 AM

Quote from: CWSooner on December 21, 2020, 10:28:59 AM

 it didn't really melt.  It just lost its modulus.

HA!You get a Yuengling,CW

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 21, 2020, 02:11:37 PM

WTF??

(https://i.imgur.com/1tQ2cjP.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 21, 2020, 02:22:11 PM

50 degrees here today and tomorrow

balmy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 21, 2020, 02:27:31 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/OVtQa2B.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 21, 2020, 02:29:10 PM

High of 80 here today. 

Should cool down over the next week. Hoping to play golf next Sunday and only showing a high of 65, and then again the following Wednesday only 64. I might need to bring a windbreaker...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 21, 2020, 02:35:11 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 21, 2020, 02:29:10 PM

High of 80 here today.

Should cool down over the next week. Hoping to play golf next Sunday and only showing a high of 65, and then again the following Wednesday only 64. I might need to bring a windbreaker...

I've been having to wear my one sweater over and over again.  I can't stand this cold weather.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 21, 2020, 02:56:49 PM

No Lakes evaporating around here,one more month until we're pulling Walleye/Perch thru the ice.Hillsides aren't on fire either  - so we have that going for us

Cleveland, OH

(https://static.ewscloud.com/weathercenter/prod/static/weathericons/daytime/cloudy.png)
40°Cloudy
feels like 33°
 
39° / 34°
(https://assets.scrippsdigital.com/cms/images/color_schemes/wews/wx-brand.png)
(https://static.ewscloud.com/weathercenter/prod/static/weathericons/daytime/sleet.png)Monday
Showers
39° / 34°
60%
(https://static.ewscloud.com/weathercenter/prod/static/weathericons/daytime/lightsnow.png)Tuesday
AM Rain/Snow Showers
37° / 30°
40%
(https://static.ewscloud.com/weathercenter/prod/static/weathericons/daytime/overcast.png)Wednesday
Cloudy/Wind
49° / 39°
10%
(https://static.ewscloud.com/weathercenter/prod/static/weathericons/daytime/sleet.png)Thursday
Rain/Snow
41° / 21°
70%

View hourly forecast (https://www.news5cleveland.com/weather/hourly-forecast)View daily foreca (https://www.news5cleveland.com/weather/daily-forecast)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 21, 2020, 05:37:34 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/OidrB8L.png)


[font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][color=var(--neutralPrimary)](https://i.imgur.com/5sXo3Y7.png)

[/font][/color][/font][/size][/color]

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 21, 2020, 08:19:54 PM

Heh, we could save ourselves a lot of time by posting a Nation-wide weather map each morning. 

Just spotted the "Christmas Star" tonight. Pretty cool. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 21, 2020, 08:26:49 PM

COVID related revenue issues for the NCAA - not as bad as once feared

https://nebraska.rivals.com/news/big-red-business-an-encouraging-outlook-for-big-ten-revenue-sharing (https://nebraska.rivals.com/news/big-red-business-an-encouraging-outlook-for-big-ten-revenue-sharing)

The financial picture for Nebraska athletics is not as bad as originally feared this tumultuous year, thanks largely to an improved outlook for Big Ten Conference media revenue sharing.

Athletic department officials have been mostly mum since the onset of Covid-19 about the size of the TV payout this year from conference revenue sharing, which amounted to $54 million last year.

But John Jentz, the athletic department’s chief financial officer, said the conference recently provided an update on projected revenues from media rights for the current fiscal year. Jentz called the outlook “encouraging.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 22, 2020, 07:11:05 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on December 21, 2020, 08:19:54 PM

Heh, we could save ourselves a lot of time by posting a Nation-wide weather map each morning.

Just spotted the "Christmas Star" tonight. Pretty cool.

I saw that last night too. The sky was clear, so very visible.


(https://i.imgur.com/6VwhNML.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 22, 2020, 08:36:49 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on December 21, 2020, 08:19:54 PM

Just spotted the "Christmas Star" tonight. Pretty cool.

Crap I forgot,was that it or will it be in sight tonite?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 22, 2020, 08:59:38 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 22, 2020, 08:36:49 AM

Crap I forgot,was that it or will it be in sight tonite?

‘Christmas Star’ to those who missed it last night: ‘I’ll be here all week’ - pennlive.com
 (https://www.pennlive.com/life/2020/12/christmas-star-to-those-who-missed-it-last-night-ill-be-here-all-week.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 22, 2020, 10:10:51 AM

so, I would guess many of us can see stars pretty well just outside our house or within a few miles

I'd guess folks like Cincy that live in the middle of metro areas have too much ambient light or light-polluted city sky.

Obviously, I'm out in a dirt field.  Star gazing is easy here.

For Badger, if he's a few miles off shore, it might be even better

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on December 22, 2020, 11:21:48 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on December 21, 2020, 08:19:54 PM

Heh, we could save ourselves a lot of time by posting a Nation-wide weather map each morning.

Just spotted the "Christmas Star" tonight. Pretty cool.

That was a great sight.
It wasn't QUITE this clear last night, but it was pretty cool indeed.

(https://www.severe-weather.eu/wp-content/gallery/space-weather/cache/great-conjunction-christmas-star-jupiter-saturn-moons.png-nggid0521287-ngg0dyn-700x700x100-00f0w010c010r110f110r010t010.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 22, 2020, 11:34:55 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 22, 2020, 10:10:51 AM

so, I would guess many of us can see stars pretty well just outside our house or within a few miles

I'd guess folks like Cincy that live in the middle of metro areas have too much ambient light or light-polluted city sky.

Obviously, I'm out in a dirt field.  Star gazing is easy here.

For Badger, if he's a few miles off shore, it might be even better

Heck, even I could see it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 22, 2020, 12:14:27 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/NY7bSHk.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on December 22, 2020, 12:17:42 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 22, 2020, 08:36:49 AM

Crap I forgot,was that it or will it be in sight tonite?

I don't know about the West Cleveland suburbs, but it was too overcast here last night to see anything. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 22, 2020, 01:20:28 PM

Look in the southwest about an hour after sunset.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 22, 2020, 02:09:11 PM

Florida has been placed on one-year probation and coach Dan Mullen has been given a one-year show-cause order after the NCAA determined that the program violated recruiting contact rules on two occasions in 2019.

Mullen was found to have failed to promote an atmosphere of compliance and will be banned from all off-campus recruiting activity during the fall 2020 evaluation period. He was also given a four-day off-campus recruiting ban during the fall 2021 contact period, and the university banned him from recruiting for the first 10 days of the January 2020 contact period.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 22, 2020, 05:32:36 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 22, 2020, 10:10:51 AM

so, I would guess many of us can see stars pretty well just outside our house or within a few miles

I'd guess folks like Cincy that live in the middle of metro areas have too much ambient light or light-polluted city sky.

Yeah, and I have a decent telescope.  The odd thing is I can't use it, even with the least "powerful" lens, they are not in the same field of view.  Binoculars are better.  I'm going to try tonight at the French restaurant.  Light pollution is a lot less there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 22, 2020, 05:44:53 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 22, 2020, 02:09:11 PM

Florida has been placed on one-year probation and coach Dan Mullen has been given a one-year show-cause order after the NCAA determined that the program violated recruiting contact rules on two occasions in 2019.

Mullen was found to have failed to promote an atmosphere of compliance and will be banned from all off-campus recruiting activity during the fall 2020 evaluation period. He was also given a four-day off-campus recruiting ban during the fall 2021 contact period, and the university banned him from recruiting for the first 10 days of the January 2020 contact period.

This is weird in that Florida/Mullen has already served most of the penalties.  This is some late-ass reporting, lol.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 22, 2020, 05:45:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 22, 2020, 05:32:36 PM

Yeah, and I have a decent telescope.  The odd thing is I can't use it, even with the least "powerful" lens, they are not in the same field of view.  Binoculars are better.  I'm going to try tonight at the French restaurant.  Light pollution is a lot less there.

It's amazing that god made all those other planets with nothing on them, just for us to look at through scientifically-created telescopes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 22, 2020, 05:46:23 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 22, 2020, 05:32:36 PM

Yeah, and I have a decent telescope.  The odd thing is I can't use it, even with the least "powerful" lens, they are not in the same field of view.  Binoculars are better.  I'm going to try tonight at the French restaurant.  Light pollution is a lot less there.

Sure the cognac will help

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 22, 2020, 05:55:49 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 22, 2020, 05:44:53 PM

This is weird in that Florida/Mullen has already served most of the penalties.  This is some late-ass reporting, lol. 

Busy with other worthless "reporting", as is the norm.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 22, 2020, 07:14:43 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 22, 2020, 05:45:37 PM

It's amazing that god made all those other planets with nothing on them, just for us to look at through scientifically-created telescopes.

Non-sequitur much?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 22, 2020, 07:39:12 PM

I spotted Saturn, Jupiter, Mars and Venus over the last 24 hours. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 22, 2020, 07:56:13 PM

I've gotten Venus every morning lately because the dog wants to walk before sunrise. I don't even know where or when to look for Mars though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 22, 2020, 08:00:56 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 22, 2020, 07:56:13 PM

I've gotten Venus every morning lately because the dog wants to walk before sunrise. I don't even know where or when to look for Mars though.

It's not far from the Moon tonight. Look for a reddish star near there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 22, 2020, 08:08:08 PM

If you position yourself so that the Moon looks like a capital "D" then the upper corner is pointing almost directly at it. 

That's just for tonight. Tomorrow the Moon will be in a different spot, but Mars won't. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 22, 2020, 08:09:36 PM

I spotted the Huskers at the Kohl Center

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 22, 2020, 09:15:19 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on December 22, 2020, 07:39:12 PM

I spotted Saturn, Jupiter, Mars and Venus over the last 24 hours.

Spending the Holidays in the Betty Ford Clinic I see

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 23, 2020, 10:37:03 AM

An interesting list for Cincy.............

https://time.com/collection/best-inventions-2020/ (https://time.com/collection/best-inventions-2020/)

For centuries, vodka has been made by fermenting grains like corn and wheat, a process that naturally results in carbon emissions. The Brooklyn-based startup Air Co. thinks it’s found a better way, distilling the spirit from nothing more than water and carbon dioxide, in a process that transforms the CO² into ethyl alcohol. Not only does Air Vodka (starting at $65 for 750 ml) do the trick in a Moscow mule, but it’s also carbon negative: for every bottle that’s produced, the company’s NASA-award-­winning technology removes about a pound of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.

one for utee..........

“Clean” rooms, in which air remains contained in a closed system for filtering rather than mixing with the rest of the facility, are in high demand at hospitals. Enter the OptiClean ($2,000–$4,000), a mobile air purifier built by Carrier that has two air-scrubbing functions. It can turn any room into a so-called negative air-­pressure space to prevent potentially contaminated air from flowing out, pushing it instead through a high-­efficiency HEPA filter before releasing it back into the room. Or, it can simply filter out pathogens from a room. So far, the company has 15,000 orders for the units from hospitals as well as schools, universities, offices and other buildings looking to provide safe indoor environments.

Creating the tons of steel and concrete we use to build our world requires a massive amount of heat—and most of it comes from burning dirty fossil fuels. HelioHeat cleans up that process by using the power of the sun. Here’s how it works: A field of 100,000 motorized, computer-­controlled mirrors concentrates sunlight in the direction of a 40-m-tall tower, “like a giant magnifying glass,” says Heliogen founder Bill Gross. There, a hot spot gets up to 2,000°F, where the heat can be harnessed to melt steel or make cement or electricity. Future iterations of the tech, says Gross, could use the sunlight to create hydrogen to power zero-emission automobiles.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 23, 2020, 10:56:23 AM

Odd, the way I always think of "clean rooms" is in manufacturing, where your goal is positive pressure. You're only allowing highly filtered air in through a known path and every other exchange of air with the outside world is venting air. I.e. the goal is that any impurities go away, instead of getting trapped in a single room and not allowed to escape. 

But I suppose if your goal is to not allow pathogens out into the wild, negative pressure would be ideal. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 23, 2020, 11:10:39 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 23, 2020, 10:56:23 AM

Odd, the way I always think of "clean rooms" is in manufacturing, where your goal is positive pressure. You're only allowing highly filtered air in through a known path and every other exchange of air with the outside world is venting air. I.e. the goal is that any impurities go away, instead of getting trapped in a single room and not allowed to escape.

But I suppose if your goal is to not allow pathogens out into the wild, negative pressure would be ideal.

Yup, exactly.  I've worked in a lot of cleanrooms in my time.  Some took it more seriously than others.

At the facility in Sicily where I installed an ion implanter, the techs didn't like going through the entire gowning/ungowning process for their (numerous) smoke breaks.  So they just threw open the back cargo doors into the alley.  I didn't allow them to run my machine during that, because I had to keep it clean on the surfscan particle tests in order to get the machine signed off and for me to go home after 3 or 4 months.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 23, 2020, 11:19:31 AM

Couldn't get a good shot of it with my 2012 Samsung phone, but this is the best I could do.

(https://i.imgur.com/UyIn6Hl.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 23, 2020, 11:23:59 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on December 22, 2020, 08:08:08 PM

If you position yourself so that the Moon looks like a capital "D" then the upper corner is pointing almost directly at it.

That's just for tonight. Tomorrow the Moon will be in a different spot, but Mars won't.

well this tip is now outdated, but the planets follow roughly the same path across the sky as the sun and the moon. There are five that you can see with the naked eye, but I've never been able to time Mercury right, as it is really close to the Sun. 

You need a telescope for Neptune, Uranus and Pluto. Pluto is next to the Christmas star right now, and Neptune is also out at night right now. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 23, 2020, 12:05:28 PM

You can download a free Planet Finder app for your phone, that will help you locate the various planets in the night sky.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 23, 2020, 12:06:10 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 23, 2020, 11:10:39 AM

Yup, exactly.  I've worked in a lot of cleanrooms in my time.  Some took it more seriously than others.

At the facility in Sicily where I installed an ion implanter, the techs didn't like going through the entire gowning/ungowning process for their (numerous) smoke breaks.  So they just threw open the back cargo doors into the alley.  I didn't allow them to run my machine during that, because I had to keep it clean on the surfscan particle tests in order to get the machine signed off and for me to go home after 3 or 4 months.

Yeah, our factories definitely wouldn't let that slide! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 23, 2020, 12:07:20 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 23, 2020, 11:19:31 AM

Couldn't get a good shot of it with my 2012 Samsung phone, but this is the best I could do.

(https://i.imgur.com/UyIn6Hl.png)

Looks like FFs Top Flite stuck in the mud

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 23, 2020, 12:09:53 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 23, 2020, 12:06:10 PM

Yeah, our factories definitely wouldn't let that slide!

As a Zymurgist your brewing operation wouldn't allow it either - I'm guessin'

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 23, 2020, 12:24:45 PM

This was parked up the street from us, left open top.

(https://i.imgur.com/daX3JOV.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 23, 2020, 12:25:11 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/aWyx3MN.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 23, 2020, 12:29:51 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 23, 2020, 12:09:53 PM

As a Zymurgist your brewing operation wouldn't allow it either - I'm guessin'

Lots of the best Belgian beers are a result of local wild yeasts and open fermentation, so a cleanroom would be counterproductive.

Brewers trying to create incredibly consistent lagers on the other hand...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 23, 2020, 01:02:49 PM

It might surprise you to know that this isn't how I dress to brew beer...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 23, 2020, 01:05:14 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 23, 2020, 12:29:51 PM

Lots of the best Belgian beers are a result of local wild yeasts and open fermentation, so a cleanroom would be counterproductive.

Ya sort of an outliar but that's accurate and intersting.Think how they stumbled onto that.Well we'll leave some slots and slits up by the rafters open and hope mother nature blows or wafts in something that will work.IMO aliens tipped them off

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 23, 2020, 01:16:23 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 23, 2020, 01:05:14 PM

Ya sort of an outliar but that's accurate and intersting.Think how they stumbled onto that.Well we'll leave some slots and slits up by the rafters open and hope mother nature blows or wafts in something that will work.IMO aliens tipped them off

Well that's how brewing was discovered, to be honest. Nobody knew that yeast existed. It was more that if they put stuff in the same pot as the last batch, they liked how it worked. They didn't really know why, but it did. As brewing became more of an "industry", they still didn't understand the actual nature of yeast, but they realized that if they pulled the stuff off the top of one batch during fermentation and put it into the next batch, it would make the next batch create beer too...

I'd venture to say that most of the natural fermentation Belgian beers that 94 is referring to are probably beers that a typical Bud Fat drinker wouldn't like... They're funky. The Belgian "Trappist" or abbey ale styles are not fermented like that at all. They use very unique yeasts, but the brewing process is as clean as any typical brewery. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 23, 2020, 03:34:50 PM

I'm definitely NOT a typical Bud Fat drinker

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 23, 2020, 03:36:43 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 23, 2020, 12:24:45 PM

This was parked up the street from us, left open top.

(https://i.imgur.com/daX3JOV.jpg)

next to the fire hydrant on the white stripes

would be a bummer to have it towed and scratched

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 25, 2020, 10:26:14 AM

Santa's list of "naughty" and "nice" children has its roots in Belgium and the Netherlands where their version of Santa Claus, Sinterklaas, kept a similar list. The Norse god Odin kept two ravens that would listen at people's chimneys to find out who was good or bad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 25, 2020, 11:28:54 AM

How come St Nick Saban and Dabo keep getting the gift of talented teams and returns to the Play Offs?Took me decades but I'm not buying the naughty/nice thing.Unless of course St Peter's involved

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 25, 2020, 11:39:15 AM

perhaps the bagmen paid off the ravens?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 25, 2020, 01:08:57 PM

Kinda wondering what went down in Nashville this morning, and who is responsible.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on December 25, 2020, 01:16:16 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 25, 2020, 10:26:14 AM

Santa's list of "naughty" and "nice" children has its roots in Belgium and the Netherlands where their version of Santa Claus, Sinterklaas, kept a similar list. The Norse god Odin kept two ravens that would listen at people's chimneys to find out who was good or bad.

Krampus has been scaring bad kids in December since before Christianity came to Europe. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krampus

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 25, 2020, 01:27:12 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 23, 2020, 03:36:43 PM

next to the fire hydrant on the white stripes

would be a bummer to have it towed and scratched

That reminds me of a time that I saw just one car parked curbside on the entire street, right in front of a fire hydrant with the trunk wide open and no one in or around it. 

I'm sure that there must have been a hidden camera involved. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 25, 2020, 01:44:10 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 25, 2020, 01:08:57 PM

Kinda wondering what went down in Nashville this morning, and who is responsible.

yup, crazy evil people
hope they are brought to justice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 25, 2020, 01:45:54 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on December 25, 2020, 01:16:16 PM

Krampus has been scaring bad kids in December since before Christianity came to Europe.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krampus

not sure how effective scaring bad kids has been over the centuries, but my mother was good at it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Hawkinole on December 26, 2020, 12:21:19 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 25, 2020, 01:08:57 PM

Kinda wondering what went down in Nashville this morning, and who is responsible.

Me too. A blast like this is almost always politically motivated. However, with the reports of gunshots an hour earlier, I could also imagine this to be an effort to conceal responsibility for a murder. 
Identity of the person responsible, whether dead or alive, will almost certainly be determined.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 26, 2020, 07:54:57 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 25, 2020, 01:08:57 PM

Kinda wondering what went down in Nashville this morning, and who is responsible.

I am happy that almost no one was hurt. And I’m also a little happy that it happened on the holiday, because it meant considerably less fascination which means less ugly quick speculation, which is nice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 26, 2020, 12:02:33 PM

Well, this is terrible news.

BREAKING NEWS: Utah Star Ty Jordan Reportedly Killed (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/utah/Article/BREAKING-NEWS-Utah-Star-Ty-Jordan-Reportedly-Killed-157837789/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 26, 2020, 12:16:49 PM

The bomb thing is fortunately difficult to pull off.  Detonators are closely controlled.  It usually means someone with a fair bit of skill is involved.  I find it odd they called ahead on 15 minutes to clear the area, which is hardly enough time, but no one was close by apparently.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 27, 2020, 07:12:22 PM

Perfect day for golf. 6 pars and a birdie, but still only managed +18 (bogey golf) because of a few blow up holes...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on December 27, 2020, 07:39:38 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 27, 2020, 07:12:22 PM

Perfect day for golf. 6 pars and a birdie, but still only managed +18 (bogey golf) because of a few blow up holes...

Your getting there.   What typically causes your blowup holes? Is it errant T-shots?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 27, 2020, 07:55:48 PM

nothing wrong with Bogey golf

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on December 27, 2020, 08:04:38 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 27, 2020, 07:55:48 PM

nothing wrong with Bogey golf

True. But I have found that there are two kinds of bogey golfers. The first kind is the player that pretty much bogeys every hole give or take.

The second kind is someone who is learning and has the potential to shoot pretty low scores. They get many pars and even a few birdies but then they get doubles and triples because usually they whack the ball out of bounds or something crazy like that.

Are used to be that guy but now I have eliminated the blowup holes in frequently get into the 70s but usually no worse than the low 80s

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 27, 2020, 09:20:15 PM

golf is not a game of how many good shots you make but rather how many bad shots you make

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 27, 2020, 09:52:44 PM

yup, don't miss big, small misses

I can and do still ruin a good round with a triple bogey or a couple doubles

I can always find a way to screw it up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on December 27, 2020, 11:04:10 PM

OB or hazards tend to contribute to any of my doubles or triples.  I mean I can lay the sod over a full short iron from time to time but I'm  past the stage of my golfing life playing military golf or four jacking.  Scrambling seems to be something I'm very comfortable with.   I really do credit Dave Pelz' short game Bible for that.   I read that sucker 20 years ago and not a round goes by without me thinking about his work.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 27, 2020, 11:05:19 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on December 27, 2020, 08:04:38 PM

True. But I have found that there are two kinds of bogey golfers. 

There's two kinds of fishing.Good fishing and great fishing,great fishing is when you actually catch something

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 27, 2020, 11:07:03 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on December 27, 2020, 11:04:10 PM

 I really do credit Dave Pelz' short game Bible for that.  I read that sucker 20 years ago and not a round goes by without me thinking about his work. 

Yogi berra once said "you can't think and hit at the same time".There's more than a grain of truth to that,IMO

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 28, 2020, 09:32:49 AM

Quote from: MarqHusker on December 27, 2020, 11:04:10 PM

OB or hazards tend to contribute to any of my doubles or triples.  I mean I can lay the sod over a full short iron from time to time but I'm  past the stage of my golfing life playing military golf or four jacking.  Scrambling seems to be something I'm very comfortable with.  I really do credit Dave Pelz' short game Bible for that.  I read that sucker 20 years ago and not a round goes by without me thinking about his work. 

always a good idea to refresh those thoughts
Penick and Hogan have also helped my game

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 28, 2020, 09:33:45 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 27, 2020, 11:07:03 PM

Yogi berra once said "you can't think and hit at the same time".There's more than a grain of truth to that,IMO

I always tell folks, golf is not a thinking man's game

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 28, 2020, 12:36:12 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on December 27, 2020, 07:39:38 PM

Your getting there.  What typically causes your blowup holes? Is it errant T-shots?

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on December 27, 2020, 08:04:38 PM

True. But I have found that there are two kinds of bogey golfers. The first kind is the player that pretty much bogeys every hole give or take.

The second kind is someone who is learning and has the potential to shoot pretty low scores. They get many pars and even a few birdies but then they get doubles and triples because usually they whack the ball out of bounds or something crazy like that.

Are used to be that guy but now I have eliminated the blowup holes in frequently get into the 70s but usually no worse than the low 80s

Yeah, my issue is inconsistency. 

I have the tools of a good golf game. My swing is fundamentally sound, it's more a matter of me just needing a lot more reps. I definitely think I have the potential to shoot much better scores. Managed 37 putts yesterday, so that's roughly (+1) where I should be and pretty standard for me. 

To give you a sense of where I screw up my game, I'll go over all the double-or-worse holes I played yesterday. Bear in mind this is a par 60 course, so the fact that some of these par 4s are short shouldn't surprise you.

#1 - ~280 yard par 4. This course doesn't have a range so I never take driver off this tee. Hit a 5 iron. Relatively good strike, down the right side, in light rough. Hit about 190-200 yards and I'm in range of a SW. Proceed to chunk the sand wedge about 45 yards. Hit the sand wedge again, lands on the green but rolls off the back. Pitch onto the green, and two putt for a double bogey. Clearly the fault here was my short game.

#6 - 300 yard par 4. Elevated tee. I made the bad decision and pulled driver. Thankfully didn't shank it, but ended up OB to the right.  Lost ball, had to take a drop. (I believe I should have hit provisional, which I need to change going forward...) Lying 2, my 3rd shot is another chunked SW. Get a little closer, and take another SW which goes just slightly off the back. Have a tricky downhill putt from the fringe, which I leave WAY short, and two putt from there for a 7. So my downfall was an OB drive, a chunked wedge, and three puts. 

#7 - ~150 yard par 3. Competely wormburner my tee shot. Just a total skull. Leaving me about 75-80 to the [back] pin. I choke down on my SW, trying to take a reasonably full (but gentle) swing. Strike the ball PURE... Which means I go about 8 yards too far, into the bunker behind the green. And because it was a beautiful, high, sand wedge, means it was coming almost straight down, and ends up in its own ball mark. Thankfully not plugged, but a terrible lie. Took me two to get it onto the green. So now I'm lying 4 on a par three, and two-putt for a triple-bogey 6. So the tee shot was bad but recoverable--I certainly could have gotten up and down for bogey. But the second shot going over the green into a terrible lie in a bunker was killer.

#16 - ~150 yard par 3. Completely shank my tee shot, low, FAR right, and short. Luckily not OB. End up with the ball well above my feet, and chunk a SW. Next SW shot lands on the green, but rolls about 8 ft off the back edge. Still within puttable distance, which I prefer because again I'm going to have a tricky downhill putt. My first putt gets caught up in the fringe a little too much and ends up rolling onto the green but still ~15 ft from the hole. Two-putt from there. So again, downfall was an errant tee shot, a chunked wedge, and then 3-putting. Finish with a triple-bogey 6. 

#18 - Normally 225 yard par 3, in this case the tees were up so it was about 200. Take a 4 iron. Hit a halfway decent tee shot, but it had a little too much draw and ended up left of the left side greenside bunker. BARELY avoided dropping in a water hazard, but the downside was that it left me with a really tough uphill lie near the edge of the water. Hit my 60 degree wedge, but didn't trust myself enough to hit it as hard as necessary, and just barely made it onto the green. Lag putt was halfway decent, leaving myself about 5 feet for bogey, but I missed it and finished with a double-bogey 5. Really the only killer here was that I couldn't two putt this one. My wedge wasn't a good shot, but I got on the green, so I blame my putting there. 

Just for comparison, I'll go over where I made par or better...

#2 - Par 3 normally ~180 yards, but playing about 170 with a front pin. Again still barely warmed up b/c the course doesn't have a range and it'd been a few weeks since I last hit. Take a 6 iron. Not a great hit, definitely low on the face, but starts right with a slight draw. Runs up onto the green and ends up on line with the flag about 20-25 ft past the pin. Again a downhill put (many greens here slope back to front), which I'm too afraid of going 10 feet past the hole, so I leave it maybe 7 feet short. But it's a straight putt, and I manage to sink that one for par.

#3 - 150 yard par 3. Take 8 iron, and again don't hit well--line drive hit extremely low on the face. Hit straight and slightly left of the flag. Hits a little berm in front of the green which slows it down and kicks it to the right. End up a little past pin high on the green, about 15-18 feet right of the hole. I read a some right-to-left break (again, slope is back to front), but end up hitting it slightly left of where I wanted and it broke more than I thought, so I'm left with a 3-footer for par, which I sink.

#4 - 266 yard par 4. Still don't feel like I'm hitting well enough to pull driver, so I grab the 5 iron again. This hole is forgiving to shots errant right, with a big slope that funnels things back towards the fairway. I strike the 5 iron quite well, but it's to the right. As it's coming down it must have gotten tangled up in some trees, but it drops and the slope takes it across the cart path back towards the fairway. Leaves me about 115 yards to a center pin location. I take a choked-down short-swing PW, and strike it perfectly. Best strike of the day so far. It's a little long but on the green. Unremarkable two putt for par. 

#10 - Probably shouldn't count this, but I will. It's normally a 240 yard par 4, but there was some maintenance to the tees so it was playing ~190. A bit tricky because the alternate tee location was on a slight slope, with the ball above your feet. Take the 5 iron, had a halfway decent strike but a bit low on the clubface, ended up just barely green high a little bit to the right. Unremarkable pitch and two putt for par. 

#12 - Short (115 yard) par 3. Took the choked-down 3/4 swing PW again. Struck it really nicely, but pulled left. Basically pin high and about 3 yards off the left edge. Again the green slopes pretty strongly back to front (left to right from my vantage) so I know my pitch will curve quite a bit. But I hit a great pitch, and it ends up basically perfect distance and about 3 feet above the hole. Make the putt for par. 

#14 - Uphill par 3, normally ~165 yards but due to the tees being a bit up and the pin being in front I figure it's playing about 145-150. Pull the 8 iron and strike it pure, albeit a bit to the right. Ends up a little past pin high and a bit right, leaving me about a 20-25 footer. Unremarkable two putt for par. 

#15 - 150 yard par 3. Again pull the 8 iron and just trying to swing easy. Felt like good contact, ball starts a little right of the hole with a nice draw bringing it back exactly on line. Oddly, I must have swung too easy or it wasn't as pure as I thought, because it lands about 3 feet short of the green. I'm left with a 20-25 foot uphill putt. Luckily my buddy had duffed his tee shot and then chunked his pitch, and his ball is about 3 feet right and 2 feet short of where I lie. So he's away, and nearly makes his putt (and gives me a perfect read). I end up striking the putt exactly as hard and on the line I wanted, and sink it for birdie. 

So my blow up holes aren't any single thing, but it's usually just having two bad shots on the same hole which screws me. I can often recover one bad shot for bogey (and occasionally par, on a par 4, if my second shot is really good), but two in a row is usually where I start getting into trouble. And I need to work on my short game, because three putts and duffed pitches will screw up your scorecard REAL quickly. I didn't even cover two holes where I didn't get onto the green until my third shot on par threes, but was decent enough on my final pitch to leave myself a makeable bogey putt. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 28, 2020, 12:58:32 PM

hah, most golfers that don't play at least twice a week

guys that do much better than this only playing a couple times a month are guys that have played tons of golf in previous years or just have very natural talent

my double or worse holes can all look like yours above - except I'm pretty solid with a wedge in my hand from over 50 yards out.  I can screw it up badly from less than 50 yards.

and I 3-putt more than I'd like

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 28, 2020, 01:00:53 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 28, 2020, 12:58:32 PM

hah, most golfers that don't play at least twice a week

guys that do much better than this only playing a couple times a month are guys that have played tons of golf in previous years or just have very natural talent

my double or worse holes can all look like yours above - except I'm pretty solid with a wedge in my hand from over 50 yards out.  I can screw it up badly from less than 50 yards.

and I 3-putt more than I'd like

All those three putts add up to another beer of time on the course

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 28, 2020, 01:32:04 PM

the 3-putts sometimes influence me to take a larger swig than normal when I get back to the cart

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 28, 2020, 02:35:06 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 28, 2020, 12:58:32 PM

and I 3-putt more than I'd like

Atta boy get your money's worth and more execise

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 28, 2020, 02:36:07 PM

Quote from: ELA on December 28, 2020, 01:00:53 PM

All those three putts add up to another beer of time on the course

Now you're going to rattle him,thanx Coach

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 28, 2020, 03:02:22 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 28, 2020, 12:58:32 PM

hah, most golfers that don't play at least twice a week

guys that do much better than this only playing a couple times a month are guys that have played tons of golf in previous years or just have very natural talent

my double or worse holes can all look like yours above - except I'm pretty solid with a wedge in my hand from over 50 yards out.  I can screw it up badly from less than 50 yards.

and I 3-putt more than I'd like

Yeah, I suspect that double or worse won't go "away" with my playing frequency. I'd like to make them more infrequent though!

Playing a much more difficult course Wednesday. Yesterday had a slope of 95 and 3700 yards -- Wednesday's course is 126 and is 6400 yards (from the back). I'm booked on as a single so I don't know if I'll play the back or middle tees--I'll just plan to do whatever the other three golfers want to play. 

At least they have a range so I can hit a little warm up bucket and make a call whether the driver comes out of the bag on the course or not lol...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 28, 2020, 03:11:37 PM

I don't golf, but some of the guys at the harbor do. They went one afternoon this past summer and I asked my neighbor how he did.

He said he got his money's worth in shots. Lots of shots.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 28, 2020, 03:21:03 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 28, 2020, 03:02:22 PM

Yeah, I suspect that double or worse won't go "away" with my playing frequency. I'd like to make them more infrequent though!

don't think the doubles and triples are ever going away for me.  The past two seasons I've played over 130 rounds of golf.

I do avoid them more than I did when I wasn't playing too much golf.

In my defense, we're usually playing "Skins" which only pays for a good score such as par or birdie, so a single or a double or triple amount to the same in the money game.

It's not in my nature to "lay-up" or play it safe.  My conversion rate on "hero shots" isn't good, but...... I try to pull them off more often than I should.

hate taking my medicine

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 28, 2020, 03:43:20 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 28, 2020, 03:21:03 PM

It's not in my nature to "lay-up" or play it safe.  My conversion rate on "hero shots" isn't good, but...... I try to pull them off more often than I should.

LOL... Yeah, I know the feeling. I've started to realize that playing it safe helps me quite a bit...

The course I played yesterday, the 9th hole should be easy, but if you don't trust your driver [as I don't], it is a problem.

It's only about 310 yard par 4. But about 200 yards from the tee, there's a creek. It crosses the fairway on a diagonal, shorter on the left (maybe 160-190 yards) and longer on the right (maybe 200-215 yards). And it's probably 30-40 feet below both the tee and the green, so it's a bit of a ravine--not a steep one, but definitely a slope.

If you trust you can carry >220, it's a very easy hole. You'll easily clear the creek, and then have an uphill lie for a wedge into the green for a nice high shot that'll stop. 

If you don't trust you can carry, you need to lay up. But if you lay up close to the creek, you'll have a horrible downhill lie to an uphill green. Horrible shot. 

Yesterday I took my pitching wedge off the tee to lay up before the downslope, and then a 5 iron to the green. Ended up almost pin high just left of the green, made a pretty decent pitch, but couldn't convert the par putt and ended with a bogey. 

If I had pulled the driver out of the bag, it probably would have been a double or worse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 28, 2020, 04:11:16 PM

the game is about confidence 

if I were rewarded with a tap in bogey or better when I laid up like that, I would do it more often, but I usually find another way to butcher the hole from there and curse myself for playing conservative.

my Cleveland wedges are my most confident clubs in the bag, but if I lay up or take medicine to get in a great wedge distance, somehow it goes bad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 28, 2020, 04:24:14 PM

The wife wanted some bracelet made by Herm's or something like that, so we drove up and got it.  Had a very expensive lunch, comparatively speaking next door, the food was pretty decent and the service was definitely subpar.  I then drove up through NW Atlanta where they are tearing down large 30 year old homes to build flat out mansions.

https://www.amazon.com/-/e/B08RF2D4SY?ref_=pe_1724030_132998070

I need more shameless promotion if I'm to afford any of them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 28, 2020, 04:29:47 PM

30 year old homes???

those aren't even broke in

my house isn't even 40 years old

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 28, 2020, 04:35:07 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 28, 2020, 04:29:47 PM

30 year old homes???

those aren't even broke in

my house isn't even 40 years old

High fallutin' newbie

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 28, 2020, 04:48:43 PM

Yeah, the lots are so valuable they tear them down to build mansions.  The old houses are a "mere" say 5,000 sf and the new ones will top 15,000.  There is one or two like this on every street.  This is an old residential area, some homes are over 50 years old, but most were already bought and replaced.    Below are a couple examples of a replacement "home", they look more like a hotel.  It's hard to believe that many people have this much money, and you can drive for miles and see this sort of thing everywhere.  And it's in the city limits of Atlanta, property taxes would buy you a decent house elsewhere.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZgUFpk9.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/3KndR2J.jpg)

I figure lawyers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 28, 2020, 04:51:29 PM

This much more modest home is in the residential area north of us, we like to walk through it at times.

(https://i.imgur.com/oXzCfpl.jpg)

Looks like a "rational" size, listed at $2.5 million.   Location etc.  No garage, no basement.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 28, 2020, 05:18:14 PM

as long as they're paying their fair share of taxes, build those mansions as big as y'all want

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 28, 2020, 05:37:35 PM

If we were to move, for example to Denver or Austin, we would immediately be able to afford something ridiculous. In either place if you're in the suburbs and you're looking to spend, say, $500-600K, you can find a 3700 sf beautiful place.

But... What do we need that for? A portion of it, of course, is that having the kids dictates a certain minimum number of bedrooms and bathrooms... And then having a dedicated office space would be ideal because I expect I'll be working from home for the foreseeable future--even post-COVID. But there's a limit.

We're in 1200 sf now, and that is clearly too small. But do I really want to furnish 3700 sf? Do I really want to clean 3700 sf? Do I really think there will be rooms that won't just sit basically unused (especially since we'll only have the kids 3-4 months of the year)? 

Nah... While I'd take 3500+ if the right house at the right price happened along, a much more comfortable number would be 2500-3000... That's big enough to be roomy without being ridiculous. And probably wouldn't blow the budget straight to hell... Saving $100K+ in purchase price would improve our quality of life a hell of a lot more than that extra square footage...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 28, 2020, 07:29:34 PM

I bought this place, just under 1100 sq ft, back in 1989 as a starter home.  Figured I'd be here until the 2nd daughter got a few years old.

I do have a full basement that is partially finished.  Oldest daughter lives down there.  Large bedroom, walk-in closet and full bath.  Walk-out to the backyard patio.

I'm still here.  Too late to move out now.

I've saved a ton on interest and taxes.

I did look into building a new house 10 years ago or so.  I had a pretty good plan at just over 1600 sq ft.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 28, 2020, 10:08:12 PM

Smaller is better.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 28, 2020, 10:09:47 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 28, 2020, 05:18:14 PM

as long as they're paying their fair share of taxes, build those mansions as big as y'all want

No one with a house like that pays their fair share of taxes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 28, 2020, 10:18:32 PM

some might not

hopefully, they all are paying the property taxes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on December 28, 2020, 10:54:58 PM

I have a large home by any sq ft measure.   During CV we do clean ourselves.   We do it every two weeks as we did w a cleaning service.   It takes a solid four hours, my wife and I.  We may break it up.  My wife is OCD on bathrooms so she's not once overing anything.   I kind of enjoy it.  I handle the hardwoods, carpets and all of the dusting since my reach is greatest.  My youngest does the toilets.   The oldest organizes. Nice savings.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 29, 2020, 09:00:53 AM

I've been cleaning my small house since I moved in.  The ex-wife wasn't a cleaner.

Cleaning a house isn't difficult, it's more about effort than anything.  My mother taught me the proper way of cleaning every week while growing up.  We may have had the cleanest house in the area.

I don't have the cleanest house in town today, but it's not filthy.  Since it's just me and the daughter, I clean when I'm motivated.  Usually when I might be expecting guests.

I'm hosting a small dinner party tonight.  The house got cleaned last night.

I don't like cleaning bathrooms, especially toilets, but it's really not that bad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 29, 2020, 09:02:42 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 28, 2020, 04:48:43 PM

Yeah, the lots are so valuable they tear them down to build mansions.  The old houses are a "mere" say 5,000 sf and the new ones will top 15,000.  There is one or two like this on every street.  This is an old residential area, some homes are over 50 years old, but most were already bought and replaced.    Below are a couple examples of a replacement "home", they look more like a hotel.  It's hard to believe that many people have this much money, and you can drive for miles and see this sort of thing everywhere.  And it's in the city limits of Atlanta, property taxes would buy you a decent house elsewhere.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZgUFpk9.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/3KndR2J.jpg)

I figure lawyers.

Looks like one of those Guilded Age Monsters up in the North East that the Uber wealthy referred to as cottages

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 29, 2020, 09:05:18 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 29, 2020, 09:00:53 AM

Cleaning a house isn't difficult, it's more about effort than anything.  My mother taught me the proper way of cleaning every week while growing up.  We may have had the cleanest house in the area.

I don't have the cleanest house in town today, but it's not filthy.  Since it's just me and the daughter, I clean when I'm motivated.  Usually when I might be expecting guests.

House keeping isn't something Cindy grasps - so I get my exercise

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 29, 2020, 09:05:37 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 28, 2020, 10:09:47 PM

No one with a house like that pays their fair share of taxes.

Define "fair" share and we can talk. Maybe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 29, 2020, 09:09:01 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 29, 2020, 09:00:53 AM

I don't like cleaning bathrooms, especially toilets, but it's really not that bad.

Throw some denture cleaner in the bowl over nite.Or "cleaning" vinegar in the tank - then flush and let it sit in the bowl for an hour or so

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on December 29, 2020, 09:53:51 AM

I have a 3000sf House, Nice thing about it is it has a Casita, I have been using as an office for my side business for awhile. Now my wife using it since she is working from home and will probably continue to do so.  

We have no need for the 5 bedrooms and 3 1/2 baths, but we love our backyard, nice play pool, fire pit and lots of room to entertain.  We have been talking about selling it, we have enough equity to purchase a smaller home outright, but would have to give up the backyard.  It is hard to find smaller homes with big lots in the Phoenix area. Particularly since we want to stay near my work. (I am only 4 miles from my plant).  

I figure I am probably 7 years from retirement, since my wife won't retire until then. Though there are days when I think I will just go ahead and do it. So we will probably wait to sell the house, but then again we could invest our current house payment until retirement.  But I love my backyard.  If you climbed my wall in the summer, you will find me floating in my pool with a beer in my hand with classic rock playing, probably not wearing a swim suit. 

As to keeping the house clean that is what a cleaning service is for, we have used the same lady for over 10 years.  I don't work in the yard, so we have a landscaping company. Other than we can't go out and listen and dance to live music right now our life is pretty easy.  We have been spending more time on the golf course this year since we can do that.  Still a terrible golfer, but a good excuse to drink beer (like I need one) and just enjoy the Phoenix weather. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 29, 2020, 09:55:24 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 29, 2020, 09:05:37 AM

Define "fair" share and we can talk. Maybe.

don't do it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 29, 2020, 09:56:54 AM

One feature of our tax code is that we tax INCOME in the main (Fed), not wealth (except on death).  A person with a lot of wealth, say $100 mil, can easily dodge taxes simply by having no income (or buying municipals).  He or she may own some larger company worth a lot of money and simply not take income out of it.

Take Bezos, most of his wealth is in "stock".  If he doesn't sell, he doesn't have income (unless they pay a dividend).

I pay what for me seems like a high property tax here, these folks certainly pay much higher.  It's just amazing to me how many of these mansions exist inside the city limits.

Supposedly, Loeffler our Senate candidate, is worth half a trillion in something, no idea where she lives.

Anyway, the wife and I enjoy driving about and oogling, especially in Spring.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 29, 2020, 09:57:56 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on December 29, 2020, 09:53:51 AM

I figure I am probably 7 years from retirement, since my wife won't retire until then. Though there are days when I think I will just go ahead and do it. So we will probably wait to sell the house, but then again we could invest our current house payment until retirement.  But I love my backyard.  If you climbed my wall in the summer, you will find me floating in my pool with a beer in my hand with classic rock playing, probably not wearing a swim suit.

was a good paragraph until.....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 29, 2020, 10:03:08 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 29, 2020, 09:56:54 AM

I pay what for me seems like a high property tax here, these folks certainly pay much higher.  It's just amazing to me how many of these mansions exist inside the city limits.


Anyway, the wife and I enjoy driving about and oogling, especially in Spring.

I like property tax.  Most folks pay their fair share and it stays local.  Doesn't go to Washington, get wasted and then sent to the east or west coast.

I do some oogling of fancy large houses on fancy golf courses.  Very thankful I don't have to pay the mortgage, the taxes, or the utility bill on those wastes of sq footage.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 29, 2020, 10:09:11 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 29, 2020, 09:57:56 AM

was a good paragraph until.....

Well at least you didn't ask for Pics

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 29, 2020, 12:03:42 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 28, 2020, 12:36:12 PM

#7 - ~150 yard par 3. Competely wormburner my tee shot. Just a total skull. Leaving me about 75-80 to the [back] pin. I choke down on my SW, trying to take a reasonably full (but gentle) swing. Strike the ball PURE... Which means I go about 8 yards too far, into the bunker behind the green. And because it was a beautiful, high, sand wedge, means it was coming almost straight down, and ends up in its own ball mark. Thankfully not plugged, but a terrible lie. Took me two to get it onto the green. So now I'm lying 4 on a par three, and two-putt for a triple-bogey 6. So the tee shot was bad but recoverable--I certainly could have gotten up and down for bogey. But the second shot going over the green into a terrible lie in a bunker was killer.

Monarch Beach Monday Mulligan - Buried Lie in a Bunker with Eloh - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?q__lnk=2&v=l_Ir_kgnLCE&feature=youtu.be)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 29, 2020, 12:12:15 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 29, 2020, 12:03:42 PM

Monarch Beach Monday Mulligan - Buried Lie in a Bunker with Eloh - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?q__lnk=2&v=l_Ir_kgnLCE&feature=youtu.be)

That course is about 12 miles from my house. When I first moved back from GA to CA, I lived in an apartment complex that backed up to the course. I could take a little walking trail along the course down to the beach for exercise. Beautiful course. 

Never played it, though... Can't afford the $300 weekend greens fees! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on December 29, 2020, 12:19:06 PM

I'm so not a Page Six person but this Hilary Baldwin story is fascinating to me.  

Or is it Hilarious Baldwin

I had no idea who she was 36 hours ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 29, 2020, 12:23:16 PM

Yeah, I think property tax is a rational thing in general, some places have it too high (NJ).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 29, 2020, 12:45:48 PM

Finally got a chance to work on the Jeep's audio system again after getting back the [no trouble found] amplifier from Alpine...

I ran new speaker wire to the two front channels, which immediately fixed those. Not sure how the factory speaker wire on the fronts had gotten screwed up... But whatever. 

Also ran new speaker wire to the subwoofer, thinking that might be the problem. Nope... Upon looking at the speaker itself, one of the two voice coils is electrically open. So that's just a dead speaker. Makes a little bit of sense, given that the sub had just completely cut out one day as I hit a bump. But disappointing... I'll need to order a new one. Can't even replace it under warranty as I bought it from an unauthorized reseller (Amazon) to save money. 

But once this project is over I can start thinking about buying a floor jack, some jack stands, a new torque wrench, and can finally install the lift kit that's been sitting in my garage for ~2 months. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 29, 2020, 12:46:26 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 29, 2020, 12:12:15 PM

That course is about 12 miles from my house. When I first moved back from GA to CA, I lived in an apartment complex that backed up to the course. I could take a little walking trail along the course down to the beach for exercise. Beautiful course.

Never played it, though... Can't afford the $300 weekend greens fees!

nice area

I've never been to that area or played golf there.  Probably the closest is Aviara Golf in Carlsbad

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 29, 2020, 12:58:19 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 29, 2020, 12:46:26 PM

nice area

I've never been to that area or played golf there.  Probably the closest is Aviara Golf in Carlsbad

you wouldnt be allowed

thats where the beautiful people live

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on December 29, 2020, 01:01:07 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 29, 2020, 10:03:08 AM

I like property tax.  Most folks pay their fair share and it stays local.  Doesn't go to Washington, get wasted and then sent to the east or west coast.

I do some oogling of fancy large houses on fancy golf courses.  Very thankful I don't have to pay the mortgage, the taxes, or the utility bill on those wastes of sq footage.

I despise Property Taxes.  Even if I pay off my mortgage, if I don't pay my Feudal Lord(s) their annual serf dues they will kick me off their land.

Property rights are so fundamental to being truly free.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 29, 2020, 01:04:15 PM

One of my wife's patients is 100 years old, and just bought a refrigerator. 

The Home Depot delivery goons wouldn't put the shelves into the fridge, and refused to reverse the door hinges for her.

So that's what I'm doing this afternoon lol...

(Which is about a 10-15 minute job anyway...)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 29, 2020, 01:11:23 PM

I once looked for some area within the US free of property taxes.  I'm still looking, unless you're a church or somesuch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 29, 2020, 01:11:44 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on December 29, 2020, 01:01:07 PM

I despise Property Taxes.  Even if I pay off my mortgage, if I don't pay my Feudal Lord(s) their annual serf dues they will kick me off their land.

Property rights are so fundamental to being truly free.

sell your house and go live on the streets in LA

thats about as free as you can get

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 29, 2020, 01:24:11 PM

live on the streets in San Fran or Austin

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 29, 2020, 01:24:44 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 29, 2020, 12:58:19 PM

you wouldnt be allowed

thats where the beautiful people live

yes, but I can visit if I spend $$$ like a tourist

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 29, 2020, 01:26:19 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on December 29, 2020, 01:01:07 PM

I despise Property Taxes.  Even if I pay off my mortgage, if I don't pay my Feudal Lord(s) their annual serf dues they will kick me off their land.

Property rights are so fundamental to being truly free.

as you know, if they do away with property tax, they will simply tax you another way to get the money.

and that other way may send your money to be laundered in Washington DC
pick your poison

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 29, 2020, 01:52:08 PM

$5 million Alpharetta home offers detached guest house on 8 acres (ajc.com) (https://www.ajc.com/life/5-million-alpharetta-home-offers-detached-guest-house-on-8-acres/YCS4YFUG6ZH4DJHVEBIZTRXK3Y/)

This one is up north, in a town that was the sticks when I last lived here.  I gather none of the owners worry much about cleaning the house themselves.

A gated estate, detached guest house and 8 acres have landed on the market in Alpharetta.

At 15060 Freemanville Rd resides a staggering 15,759 square foot home featuring a long, winding driveway and an expertly manicured lawn.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 29, 2020, 01:58:13 PM

Which college-football program has produced the most NFL draft picks this century? Alabama? Clemson? Joe Burrow's LSU? Jeff Okudah's Ohio State? Time to find out. Here's a look of the top 50 programs based on stats published by NCAA.com. The schools are ranked by the total number of picks they've generated from the 2000 NFL Draft to the 2020 NFL Draft. Where there were ties, we separated the programs by their number of first-round picks.

https://247sports.com/ContentGallery/The-50-College-Football-Programs-with-the-Most-NFL-Draft-Picks-This-Century-Ranked-148633972/#148633972_1 (https://247sports.com/ContentGallery/The-50-College-Football-Programs-with-the-Most-NFL-Draft-Picks-This-Century-Ranked-148633972/#148633972_1)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 29, 2020, 02:01:02 PM

Interesting to see USC at #7 on that list.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 29, 2020, 02:04:32 PM

A friend of mine's son stayed there every other week for about eight months, providing private baseball lessons to the owner’s 12 year old son.

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/25-Casteel-Rdg_Edwards_CO_81632_M27357-59502 (https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/25-Casteel-Rdg_Edwards_CO_81632_M27357-59502)

$78,000,000
8bed, 9.5+bath, 32,000sqft - 439acre lot
25 Casteel Creek Rd, Edwards, CO, 81632

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 29, 2020, 02:05:00 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 29, 2020, 02:01:02 PM

Interesting to see USC at #7 on that list.

thought UNC would be higher and UNL would be lower

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 29, 2020, 03:04:54 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 29, 2020, 01:11:23 PM

I once looked for some area within the US free of property taxes.  I'm still looking, unless you're a church or somesuch.

St CinciDawg of the ATL - sounds legit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 29, 2020, 03:16:28 PM

Property taxes are a permanent lien on your property. Those states with really high property taxes, such as my former one, are actually stealing your property out from under you. Values drop as a result, and when you sell, you lose your ass - IF you can sell.

Property tax burdens in Illinois are the result of the state having too many units of government (pensions, anyone?). 


Illinois has nearly 7,000 units of local governments | Illinois Policy (https://www.illinoispolicy.org/reports/too-much-government-illinois-thousands-of-local-governments/)


(https://i.imgur.com/PRn2mDz.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on December 29, 2020, 03:25:56 PM

We have been bouncing around ideas on remodeling the house.  It's somewhat intimidating to think about, there seems to be no limit once you start thinking about what you can do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 29, 2020, 03:31:22 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 29, 2020, 03:16:28 PM

Property tax burdens in Illinois are the result of the state having too many units of government (pensions, anyone?).


Illinois has nearly 7,000 units of local governments | Illinois Policy (https://www.illinoispolicy.org/reports/too-much-government-illinois-thousands-of-local-governments/)

maybe I won't move to Kansas or Texas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on December 29, 2020, 04:32:50 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 29, 2020, 03:16:28 PM

Property taxes are a permanent lien on your property. Those states with really high property taxes, such as my former one, are actually stealing your property out from under you. Values drop as a result, and when you sell, you lose your ass - IF you can sell.

Property tax burdens in Illinois are the result of the state having too many units of government (pensions, anyone?).


Illinois has nearly 7,000 units of local governments | Illinois Policy (https://www.illinoispolicy.org/reports/too-much-government-illinois-thousands-of-local-governments/)


(https://i.imgur.com/PRn2mDz.png)

That's an impressive chart, Badge.
Maybe "depressive" is the better term if one is an Illinoisian.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 29, 2020, 04:41:38 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 29, 2020, 03:31:22 PM

maybe I won't move to Kansas or Texas

Texas is OK. Florida is better in this metric, obviously.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 29, 2020, 04:56:14 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on December 29, 2020, 03:25:56 PM

We have been bouncing around ideas on remodeling the house.  It's somewhat intimidating to think about, there seems to be no limit once you start thinking about what you can do.

1.  Get a reliable contractor who will respond to your phone calls etc.
2.  Figure it will take 20-50% longer than predicted.
3.  Figure your house will be covered in dust during the process.
4.  Figure on call backs.
5.  The best return seems to be on the kitchen.
6.  Consider getting an induction stove/cooktop.
7.  Get a reliable contractor.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 29, 2020, 05:01:50 PM

IPIC Theaters - The Ultimate Theater Experience (https://www.ipic.com/atlanta_colony_square/dining?siteId=18)

This place opened near us, not good timing on their part.  We strolled by and I popped my head in and they gave us a tour.  It is very elegant, you can order drinks and food at your seat etc., which is a leather covered recliner in a "pod".  A seat is $14, which isn't a crazy price for one movie I saw.  They had more staff than guests when we were there.

Colony Square is a 52 year old "experiment" that almost failed and now is doing fairly well apparently, they are doing a major overhaul.  The new restaurants have of course some serious headwinds and one was supposed to open last spring but is still pending, a Persian food place.

Colony Square Redevelopment | Midtown Atlanta, GA (https://colonysquare.com/reimagined/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 29, 2020, 05:44:21 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 29, 2020, 05:01:50 PM

IPIC Theaters - The Ultimate Theater Experience (https://www.ipic.com/atlanta_colony_square/dining?siteId=18)

This place opened near us, not good timing on their part.  We strolled by and I popped my head in and they gave us a tour.  It is very elegant, you can order drinks and food at your seat etc., which is a leather covered recliner in a "pod".  A seat is $14, which isn't a crazy price for one movie I saw.  They had more staff than guests when we were there.

Colony Square is a 52 year old "experiment" that almost failed and now is doing fairly well apparently, they are doing a major overhaul.  The new restaurants have of course some serious headwinds and one was supposed to open last spring but is still pending, a Persian food place.

Colony Square Redevelopment | Midtown Atlanta, GA (https://colonysquare.com/reimagined/)

Around here our luxury theater is Cinepolis: https://cinepolisusa.com/

Similar that the seats are leather recliners and they're in pods of 2 seats each. Can press a little button and a waiter will come and take your order for drinks, food, etc. Nice to be able to sit back and watch a movie and have someone bring me more IPA...

It's the only way my wife and I ever go see movies. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 29, 2020, 05:53:54 PM

Helped the 100 year old lady by swapping the hinges on her fridge and installing all the shelves. My good deed for the day. 

She wanted to pay me and I didn't want her money, so I had to back away while a 100 year old lady tried to stuff money in my pants... 

Wait... That sounds dirty. Is it cleaner if I say my wife was there watching? :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 29, 2020, 06:03:35 PM

Good job, BW.  Good to hear such stories around here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 29, 2020, 08:12:00 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 29, 2020, 05:44:21 PM

Around here our luxury theater is Cinepolis: https://cinepolisusa.com/

Similar that the seats are leather recliners and they're in pods of 2 seats each. Can press a little button and a waiter will come and take your order for drinks, food, etc. Nice to be able to sit back and watch a movie and have someone bring me more IPA...

It's the only way my wife and I ever go see movies.

I did it once, ordered too much stuff.  I'm glad I did it once, but it was too busy.  I want to focus on the movie.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 29, 2020, 08:13:31 PM

I hate when people try to force you to take money.  Let me be nice.  If money is any kind of issue, I'll let you pay for materials, if it's a project of some kind.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on December 29, 2020, 09:49:30 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 29, 2020, 05:53:54 PM

Helped the 100 year old lady by swapping the hinges on her fridge and installing all the shelves. My good deed for the day.

She wanted to pay me and I didn't want her money, so I had to back away while a 100 year old lady tried to stuff money in my pants...

Wait... That sounds dirty. Is it cleaner if I say my wife was there watching? :57:

The most significant lesson I've learned over the last decade or so was to let people do things for me... especially if it is in response to something I gave for them... it gives them the same jolt of joy I get when I give.... but never money. 

A lady across street fell this past summer, in her back yard.. I a was doing yard work and thought I heard something before I fired up the tractor... then again before I fired push mower... then again with weed eater.... between weed eater and leaf blower I decided I wasn't crazy and went to investigate.  She was lucky because after the leaf blower comes beer.  Copious amounts of beer.

She was crawling and in her side yard before I got to her... good thing she wasn't in a race as she would have needed headlights before she arrived at her door... it was likely around lunch time when this was happening. 

She's north of 90 years old.  Has family but some distance away, and though active in church her cell phone was indoors. 

After poking around searching for broken bones I felt safe enough to scoop her up and carry her inside.  I asked her to call her friend to come check on her and perhaps give her a better look than I could or would.  Didn't rule out a trip to the zoo er uh hospital for her... this was mid covid scare and if you wanted to put fear of God in an older person, mention a trip to the hospital...

So anyway she, her friend,  and her family all wanted to pay me... for doing the only thing there is to do in a situation like that... but they wanted to carry no debt- which is the lesson I had learned some time prior to that- so.... I asked for a pie... a cheesecake,  actually... and... she brought me one... she's brought me several since.. ive taken to using the sweeper attachment to clear leaves from her yard and taking her trash to the corner... and she loves my little girl and teaches her- turns out she was a teacher in her professional life, and my little girl has a thirst for learning as heavy as the ladys thirst to teach... I'd call her friend. 

And I figure that's how you make them. 

Doesn't always work out that way.  Old fella who used to live across street was a doctor in WWII to give indication of his age... he introduced himself to me at least five times... tried to be nice to him several times, but he was a straight ass hole.  And.... he never learned what I feel proud to have gained- gotta let people do things for you just like you do for them.... never money.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 30, 2020, 10:06:08 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/noQn5Ci.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 30, 2020, 10:31:29 AM

A good idea to turn down "money" but accept some more personal form of "compensation", I think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 30, 2020, 11:08:24 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/xLKEqmh.png)

Neat photo of The Bone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 30, 2020, 11:14:15 AM

for us laymen who are not as military as you please explain the Bone is slang for B - 1 or B one bomber

that is all you are dismissed 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on December 30, 2020, 11:27:10 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 30, 2020, 11:14:15 AM

for us laymen who are not as military as you please explain the Bone is slang for B - 1 or B one bomber

that is all you are dismissed

As you guessed, "Bone" is for "B-ONE."
It's the Air Force.  Where you put your hands in your pockets to keep them warm and invent sexual innuendos for every piece of equipment.
Oh, "piece."  I went and did it myself!

I like the condensation around the engine intakes and nacelles.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 31, 2020, 01:49:41 PM

Golf is a frustrating sport...

After posting a +18 on Sunday, I managed to throw down a ridiculous 109, +37, yesterday. Ten 3-putts (!) and didn't par a single hole. My only redeeming points were actually making birdie on one par 3 due to a perfect shot leaving me a 4 footer, and that despite how horrific my day was, I managed only bogey on the #1 handicap hole on the course. 

I was generally hitting the ball well, so the fault lies with my short game... A few times I was in bunkers and took two strokes to get out, a few flubbed chips or pitches that went over the green or left me with terrible putts, and then of course the aforementioned 3-putts. 

Oh well, the beer still tasted good, and I got some good exercise out of it. I walked all 18, and when I got home took the dog for an additional walk because I'd left him home so long, so according to my watch I walked over 14 miles yesterday. 

Unfortunately, despite not having a flare-up of tennis elbow in either round, yesterday on the back nine I had an attack of golfer's elbow. Sore today... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on December 31, 2020, 01:53:37 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 30, 2020, 10:06:08 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/noQn5Ci.png)

we got a couple christmas presents that have been sitting in birmingham since Dec 8th. one of them made a trip to atlanta and back for a day for some reason.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 31, 2020, 01:56:45 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 31, 2020, 01:49:41 PM

Golf is a frustrating sport...

After posting a +18 on Sunday, I managed to throw down a ridiculous 109, +37, yesterday. Ten 3-putts (!) and didn't par a single hole. My only redeeming points were actually making birdie on one par 3 due to a perfect shot leaving me a 4 footer, and that despite how horrific my day was, I managed only bogey on the #1 handicap hole on the course.

I was generally hitting the ball well, so the fault lies with my short game... A few times I was in bunkers and took two strokes to get out, a few flubbed chips or pitches that went over the green or left me with terrible putts, and then of course the aforementioned 3-putts.

Oh well, the beer still tasted good, and I got some good exercise out of it. I walked all 18, and when I got home took the dog for an additional walk because I'd left him home so long, so according to my watch I walked over 14 miles yesterday.

Unfortunately, despite not having a flare-up of tennis elbow in either round, yesterday on the back nine I had an attack of golfer's elbow. Sore today...

you can play and putt with me any ol time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 31, 2020, 01:59:20 PM

Give the score card to Bwarb though

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 31, 2020, 02:17:09 PM

I have an eraser

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 31, 2020, 02:40:10 PM

When you're caught do you know how to use it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 31, 2020, 02:54:12 PM

hell yes, it's ONLY to correct honest mistakes

trust me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 31, 2020, 03:04:42 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 31, 2020, 02:54:12 PM

trust me

On the Course?


(https://i.gifer.com/CxRU.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 31, 2020, 06:20:49 PM

I put on my tux for the first time in ages for dinner tonight.  I look spiffy.  Relatively spiffy.

OK, I look as good as I can.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 31, 2020, 07:42:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 31, 2020, 06:20:49 PM

I put on my tux for the first time in ages for dinner tonight.  I look spiffy.  Relatively spiffy.

OK, I look as good as I can.

I'm wearing my finest pajama pants.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 31, 2020, 10:15:06 PM

Nice dinner, tres cher.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 01, 2021, 08:58:39 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 31, 2020, 07:42:53 PM

I'm wearing my finest pajama pants.

I have on the finest flip flops and sox with designed holes for aeration and sporting my 8yr old Big Yank denim Jeans and a Russell Hooded Ohio State sweatshirt.Busting into the New Year in smashing fashion.Just waiting on the ribs and at noon I'll try some Belvedere Vodka that Santa left

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 01, 2021, 09:08:22 AM

(https://twitter.com/KyleRowland)Kyle Rowland

A quirk of not having standard protocols in the playoff: Clemson is done with COVID testing for the week, while Ohio State will continue testing.


After having their OC test positive,I wonder if they shut down because they don't want to know

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 01, 2021, 10:08:20 AM

Interesting, ignorance is bliss, initially.  Might not be next week.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on January 01, 2021, 10:52:48 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 01, 2021, 10:08:20 AM

Interesting, ignorance is bliss, initially.  Might not be next week.

I believe that is the case.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 01, 2021, 11:16:50 AM

But what if opponents get infected?Not saying that will be the case but certainly could be

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 01, 2021, 11:19:01 AM

Beouf bourgignon came out great!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on January 01, 2021, 11:48:24 AM

Crummy weather, self quarantine, I'm gonna watch bowl games probably make duck breast latter.  Wife and kids now making kaik.  

I'm digging up the Lebanese Pop Essentials for this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on January 01, 2021, 06:25:18 PM

Pretty good stuff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on January 02, 2021, 01:11:15 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 01, 2021, 11:16:50 AM

But what if opponents get infected?Not saying that will be the case but certainly could be

Why would a team that is avoiding testing care about that?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 03, 2021, 07:03:57 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on December 31, 2020, 07:42:53 PM

I'm wearing my finest pajama pants.

i always feel sort of formal when I change out of my nighttime pajama pants, into my daytime pajama pants.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 03, 2021, 07:13:54 PM

Sleep on the couch in your jeans - problem solved

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 03, 2021, 07:21:33 PM

heathen

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 03, 2021, 07:24:45 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on January 02, 2021, 01:11:15 AM

Why would a team that is avoiding testing care about that?

Dabo's tight with the almighty so I'm guessing he would be remorseful

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on January 03, 2021, 07:43:55 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 03, 2021, 07:24:45 PM

Dabo's tight with the almighty so I'm guessing he would be remorseful

Hah!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: TyphonInc on January 03, 2021, 09:20:36 PM

I'm actually pretty concerned about OSU's potential exposure to the non tested Tigers they spent 3 hours in close proximity with.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on January 03, 2021, 09:29:19 PM

Quote from: TyphonInc on January 03, 2021, 09:20:36 PM

I'm actually pretty concerned about OSU's potential exposure to the non tested Tigers they spent 3 hours in close proximity with.

WR room should be fine, I didn't see any Tigers near them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: TyphonInc on January 03, 2021, 09:32:16 PM

Quote from: ELA on January 03, 2021, 09:29:19 PM

WR room should be fine, I didn't see any Tigers near them

Lol

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 03, 2021, 09:48:19 PM

Quote from: TyphonInc on January 03, 2021, 09:20:36 PM

I'm actually pretty concerned about OSU's potential exposure to the non tested Tigers they spent 3 hours in close proximity with.

I'm really hoping this doesn't happen on either side.  If a key guy (or more) is out between now and the NCG.....ugh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 03, 2021, 10:25:32 PM

I hope all the key guys made grades at the semester break

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on January 04, 2021, 12:35:06 AM

Long-lost bootleg concert of John Denver singing "18 Holes"

https://youtu.be/3fbTGhDDL2g (https://youtu.be/3fbTGhDDL2g)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 04, 2021, 01:18:13 AM

Quote from: ELA on January 03, 2021, 09:29:19 PM

WR room should be fine, I didn't see any Tigers near them

HA!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 04, 2021, 11:01:29 AM

Quote from: CWSooner on January 04, 2021, 12:35:06 AM

Long-lost bootleg concert of John Denver singing "18 Holes"

https://youtu.be/3fbTGhDDL2g (https://youtu.be/3fbTGhDDL2g)

As bad as I am at golf, I'm worse singing, but I might memorize this song.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on January 04, 2021, 12:20:56 PM

Two of my metal head high school golf teammates were good at golf riffs.  They wrote and performed one.  I catch myself humming one of their tunes whenever someone hits it OB. I should ask them for the verse lyrics, which were funny. the refrain was something like this:   'I need a three...I hit it OB...I make bogey...its a white stakes birdie.'

'

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 04, 2021, 12:36:26 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 04, 2021, 11:01:29 AM

As bad as I am at golf, I'm worse singing, but I might memorize this song.

Then your singing is cat in a fan belt bad

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 04, 2021, 01:12:46 PM

you've heard me sing?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 04, 2021, 01:17:57 PM

Anything like your posting?Which BTW is leaps and bounds better than mine

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 04, 2021, 01:32:51 PM

I'm guessing OAM will agree with that post of yours

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 04, 2021, 02:59:55 PM

It's not like I set the bar real high

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 04, 2021, 03:37:52 PM

true

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 04, 2021, 10:10:10 PM

Wow.
I went on the IRS website.  Clicked the button.  Typed in 4 things I didn't have to look up.  And it plainly told me the date my check is being mailed out.
AMAZING.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 04, 2021, 10:35:57 PM

efficiency from the IRS???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 04, 2021, 10:56:38 PM

Unfortunately I don't have direct deposit.Which means it will get here by perhaps Ground Hog Day

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 05, 2021, 09:39:24 AM

A cranky old woman was arrested for shoplifting at a grocery store.

She gave everyone a hard time, from the store manager to the security guard to the arresting officer who took her away, complaining and criticizing throughout the process.

When she appeared before the judge, the judge asked what she had stolen from the store.

The lady defiantly replied, "Just a stupid can of peaches."

The judge then asked why she had done it. She replied, "I was hungry and forgot to bring any cash to the store."

The judge asked how many peaches were in the can. She replied, "Nine, but what do you care about that?"

The judge patiently said, "Well, ma'am, because I'm going to give you nine days in jail -- one day for each peach."

As the judge was about to drop gavel, the lady's long-suffering husband raised his hand and asked if he might speak.

The judge said, "Yes, what do you have to add?"

The husband said, "Your Honor, she also stole a can of peas."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 05, 2021, 01:06:12 PM

We tried the Mukja Korean Fried Chicken place for lunch, very good, mine was spicy.  They are doing take out only right now.

Mukja Korean Fried Chicken | Atlanta, GA (mukjaatl.com) (https://www.mukjaatl.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 05, 2021, 01:09:39 PM

Yup, seems like Korean fried chicken is the new Nashville Hot Chicken.

I like them both and am glad for the expanded diversity in available options.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 05, 2021, 01:22:00 PM

Little Rocket Man flavor?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on January 05, 2021, 02:04:55 PM

I liked the hot/spicy/garlicky Korean meat dishes I had during my year in the ROK.

I also liked most varieties of kimchi I ate.

But I don't know of any Korean restaurants we have around here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 05, 2021, 02:09:48 PM

This Korean had more of a crust than Nashville hot, I think, and I agree both are excellent.  These guys just opened a couple months back and we're trying to support the local places.  They don't have an outside seating area unfortunately.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 05, 2021, 02:18:26 PM

no Korean around here that I'm aware of...

Many Vietnamese and Thai places

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 05, 2021, 02:41:49 PM

We have a large Korean community here (and Vietnamese) and a number of "regular" Korean restaurants, but the fired chicken angle is somewhat novel.  I like bi bim bop dol sot a lot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 05, 2021, 02:45:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 05, 2021, 02:41:49 PM

We have a large Korean community here (and Vietnamese) and a number of "regular" Korean restaurants, but the fired chicken angle is somewhat novel.  I like bi bim bop dol sot a lot.

Yeah same here.  Lots of traditional Korean places around here, but "Korean fried chicken" is sort of a new thing.

I do like bibimbap, and also pork bulgogi, quite a bit.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 05, 2021, 03:22:02 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 05, 2021, 01:22:00 PM

Little Rocket Man flavor?

Wrong Korea. I don't think they can afford to eat chicken in the north. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 05, 2021, 04:49:22 PM

As I've felt all along, the officers involved in the Jacob Blake shooting will not be charged.

Say a prayer for my second home. I'd like it to still be there come Memorial Day.

No criminal charges to be filed in Kenosha police shooting of Jacob Blake | Local News | kenoshanews.com (https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/no-criminal-charges-to-be-filed-in-kenosha-police-shooting-of-jacob-blake/article_d34297f7-7bdf-5388-ae84-68219b2d7481.html#tracking-source=home-breaking)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 06, 2021, 05:36:27 PM

My step son from SF (a very nice young man) and I and the wife went to the NA Porsche HQ and he had an hour and a half driving a GT3 on their track.  It was quite find watching him.  

Book Driving | Porsche Experience Center - Atlanta, GA (porschedriving.com) (https://www.porschedriving.com/atlanta/book-driving)

I have a 718 convertible on my short list of cars I'd like to own perhaps someday, and I think I'd do this before buying it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 06, 2021, 05:39:17 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 05, 2021, 04:49:22 PM

No criminal charges to be filed in Kenosha police shooting of Jacob Blake | Local News | kenoshanews.com (https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/no-criminal-charges-to-be-filed-in-kenosha-police-shooting-of-jacob-blake/article_d34297f7-7bdf-5388-ae84-68219b2d7481.html#tracking-source=home-breaking)

Just as ordinary folks are presumed innocent and have to be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a trial, the same applies to the police.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 06, 2021, 07:10:02 PM

[color=var(--neutralDark)][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif](https://attachment.outlook.live.net/owa/MSA%3Amrnubbz%40hotmail.com/service.svc/s/GetAttachmentThumbnail?id=AQMkADAwATY3ZmYAZS04NzM1LWViZmEtMDACLTAwCgBGAAADIvK1pE0uIE2AKvwm%2F7BZTwcACknFrdWf8066Dgde7jPs8gAAAgEMAAAACknFrdWf8066Dgde7jPs8gAE5QBB3QAAAAESABAAo%2B9%2Fc4PZ8E6MuzHozwWbfg%3D%3D&thumbnailType=2&isc=1&token=eyJhbGciOiJSUzI1NiIsImtpZCI6IjMwODE3OUNFNUY0QjUyRTc4QjJEQjg5NjZCQUY0RUNDMzcyN0FFRUUiLCJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJ4NXQiOiJNSUY1emw5TFV1ZUxMYmlXYTY5T3pEY25ydTQifQ.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.TtUkObnMseGnksTXChWGbaYt0Q5VJN1uRwK_UuxuGDrh5o3oXKbqzLO40ovBmAlgpMA-xXuonc0SXQXXnrh9e8if4mSu-jy-89Pmcom55JI4xnZIknhXqkmrtm-ONeyi4MpwWkiSeN3207aCmGejvOKIBhYMt-Z2wjgTaWFTc9yZPlpwWuru_CqA_1a8FbWb4fUqXcOuSvv55N6y7mKvhiDFuw6Bl6BCZM8WjVJNyKfBQ69kTDKB-rY2b_WSSPdJdE1qP_at_nviq6hd69aMP2-rOjVtd1Bwgj9_x1ebiiQc2JCgfWVJgRk_kR9RaAy3dp5cTBrsvgdenKfC8yeBug&X-OWA-CANARY=Cze-XcBElEmkQhQFgNbffJBNuTSgstgYjuAHR7YekIntAYbeSR9fcSUtdQXOtLhUtSEhIkZLPd8.&owa=outlook.live.com&scriptVer=20201228001.03&animation=true)[/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/color]

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 06, 2021, 10:17:36 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on January 05, 2021, 03:22:02 PM

Wrong Korea. I don't think they can afford to eat chicken in the north.

You wanna spend 5 hours on youtube?  Watch the former North Korean soldiers marvel at our actual military might.....then watch them enjoy real, American BBQ for the first time!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 06, 2021, 11:01:08 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 06, 2021, 10:17:36 PM

You wanna spend 5 hours on youtube?  Watch the former North Korean soldiers marvel at our actual military might.....then watch them enjoy real, American BBQ for the first time!

Lemme guess... it was burgers and dogs on the grill, wasn't it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 07, 2021, 12:12:06 AM

No, fancy-pants BBQ restaurants providing brisket, ribs, and pulled pork. 
Search DIMPLE on youtube - it's really great.  They're legit former North Korean soldiers who have had the veil of absurdities lifted and understand they were brainwashed. 
Some of the vids are their first exposures to various US military weapons and stats and others are lighter - with trying a variety of foods besides bean paste and raw potatoes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 07, 2021, 09:33:06 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 06, 2021, 07:10:02 PM

[color=var(--neutralDark)][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif](https://attachment.outlook.live.net/owa/MSA%3Amrnubbz%40hotmail.com/service.svc/s/GetAttachmentThumbnail?id=AQMkADAwATY3ZmYAZS04NzM1LWViZmEtMDACLTAwCgBGAAADIvK1pE0uIE2AKvwm%2F7BZTwcACknFrdWf8066Dgde7jPs8gAAAgEMAAAACknFrdWf8066Dgde7jPs8gAE5QBB3QAAAAESABAAo%2B9%2Fc4PZ8E6MuzHozwWbfg%3D%3D&thumbnailType=2&isc=1&token=eyJhbGciOiJSUzI1NiIsImtpZCI6IjMwODE3OUNFNUY0QjUyRTc4QjJEQjg5NjZCQUY0RUNDMzcyN0FFRUUiLCJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJ4NXQiOiJNSUY1emw5TFV1ZUxMYmlXYTY5T3pEY25ydTQifQ.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.TtUkObnMseGnksTXChWGbaYt0Q5VJN1uRwK_UuxuGDrh5o3oXKbqzLO40ovBmAlgpMA-xXuonc0SXQXXnrh9e8if4mSu-jy-89Pmcom55JI4xnZIknhXqkmrtm-ONeyi4MpwWkiSeN3207aCmGejvOKIBhYMt-Z2wjgTaWFTc9yZPlpwWuru_CqA_1a8FbWb4fUqXcOuSvv55N6y7mKvhiDFuw6Bl6BCZM8WjVJNyKfBQ69kTDKB-rY2b_WSSPdJdE1qP_at_nviq6hd69aMP2-rOjVtd1Bwgj9_x1ebiiQc2JCgfWVJgRk_kR9RaAy3dp5cTBrsvgdenKfC8yeBug&X-OWA-CANARY=Cze-XcBElEmkQhQFgNbffJBNuTSgstgYjuAHR7YekIntAYbeSR9fcSUtdQXOtLhUtSEhIkZLPd8.&owa=outlook.live.com&scriptVer=20201228001.03&animation=true)[/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/color]

ya don't say

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 07, 2021, 11:13:25 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 05, 2021, 02:45:05 PM

Yeah same here.  Lots of traditional Korean places around here, but "Korean fried chicken" is sort of a new thing.

I do like bibimbap, and also pork bulgogi, quite a bit. 

I was wondering if you find KFC (above) in Korea as a "thing", and whether if so, it's a recent thing.  Maybe they had the original KFC and simply set out to improve it (which is not that tough to do).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on January 07, 2021, 03:03:54 PM

They had fried chicken in Seoul when I was there in '88-89.

From a bus I was taking to CP Tango on an exercise, I saw a restaurant with a picture of Olive Oyl's head painted on the side.

In Han-Gul was written "Oh-Lee-Beh Chee-Keen."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 07, 2021, 03:07:50 PM

Interesting, perhaps it was the same style (which was good).  Obviously, a country can adopt a food from elsewhere and then change it rather dramatically (pizza).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 08, 2021, 10:02:16 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/P8pg2b7.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 08, 2021, 10:02:37 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/GVhEP3N.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 08, 2021, 11:22:40 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/DhidgUU.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 08, 2021, 09:44:19 PM

Mission Viejo sunset...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 09, 2021, 02:05:17 PM

I like this list.

But, it's just a subjective list

https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/College-football-best-players-all-time-Herschel-Walker-Bo-Jackson-Barry-Sanders-Archie-Griffin-158871761/#158871761_7 (https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/College-football-best-players-all-time-Herschel-Walker-Bo-Jackson-Barry-Sanders-Archie-Griffin-158871761/#158871761_7)

oddly, the list doesn't include Archie's ypc or Emmitt Smith

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 09, 2021, 02:22:48 PM

I like all lists, but I'm against all over generalizations.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 09, 2021, 03:53:15 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 09, 2021, 02:05:17 PM

I like this list.

But, it's just a subjective list

https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/College-football-best-players-all-time-Herschel-Walker-Bo-Jackson-Barry-Sanders-Archie-Griffin-158871761/#158871761_7 (https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/College-football-best-players-all-time-Herschel-Walker-Bo-Jackson-Barry-Sanders-Archie-Griffin-158871761/#158871761_7)

oddly, the list doesn't include Archie's ypc or Emmitt Smith

Sure, it's a traditionalists' safe, consensus list. 
Jim Brown, one could say, is on these lists for his NFL career and eventual reputation....that he was merely a 5th-place Heisman RB for a school with no tradition is ignored.  If he'd gone on to fizzle out after 2 years in the NFL and become a car salesman, he wouldn't be ranked on any college football list.  But human beings have some sort of blind spot when it comes to differentiating college and NFL. 
It's incredible.

Here, forget all that.  I hadn't looked at the title of the article.   To propose 9 of the 10 best players were running backs is flat out stupid.  You'd have to be a stupid person to suggest such a thing.  A 7 year old would make a list like that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 09, 2021, 03:57:52 PM

well, there's also this......


Brown was a consensus first-team All-American on the gridiron as a senior and finished fifth in the Heisman Trophy voting. He set school records for highest season rush average (6.2) and most rushing touchdowns in a single game (6).  

you could easily put the 5th place finish for Hypesman (which has been discussed)  as "for a school with no tradition"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 10, 2021, 11:02:56 AM

I'd pick Sanders for my RB if I had a mediocre OLine over HW.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 10, 2021, 11:47:39 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 09, 2021, 03:53:15 PM

Here, forget all that.  I hadn't looked at the title of the article.  To propose 9 of the 10 best players were running backs is flat out stupid.  You'd have to be a stupid person to suggest such a thing.  A 7 year old would make a list like that.

I'd guess that many times the RBs are the best athletes on the team

combination of strength, speed, agility, quickness, and toughness

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 10, 2021, 11:54:48 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 10, 2021, 11:47:39 AM

I'd guess that many times the RBs are the best athletes on the team

Lots of athletes aren't players.As Jimmy Johnson always said "But can he play"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 10, 2021, 12:24:11 PM

I suspect by and large the running backs are the best overall athletes on a football team by position, wide receivers can be freaks as well.

If you put them in just about any other sport at an early age, many would have done well.  I know a lot of WRs were very good BBall players in HS.  Maybe that group would be better overall but not at bobsledding.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 10, 2021, 12:29:43 PM

Herschel was good at bobsledding

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c3/cd/84/c3cd84eee3da438458eca7190cd34369.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on January 10, 2021, 12:57:47 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 09, 2021, 02:05:17 PM

I like this list.

But, it's just a subjective list

https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/College-football-best-players-all-time-Herschel-Walker-Bo-Jackson-Barry-Sanders-Archie-Griffin-158871761/#158871761_7 (https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/College-football-best-players-all-time-Herschel-Walker-Bo-Jackson-Barry-Sanders-Archie-Griffin-158871761/#158871761_7)

oddly, the list doesn't include Archie's ypc or Emmitt Smith

Is Archie Griffin even one of Ohio State's 10 best football players of all time?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 10, 2021, 01:32:21 PM

I'll defer to true Buckeye fans, but Archie didn't suck

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on January 10, 2021, 06:52:44 PM

I'll defer to them too.  But surely they don't hold Archie Griffin as the greatest Buckeye football player of all time.  Maybe on the margin of the top 10.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 10, 2021, 06:53:58 PM

Orlando Pace?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 10, 2021, 06:56:55 PM

Georgia Football: 10 Best Players in Bulldogs History | Bleacher Report | Latest News, Videos and Highlights (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2498678-georgia-football-10-best-players-in-bulldogs-history)

I found this list, which looks reasonable I guess, I'd try and find room for Nick Chubb (the list is from 2015).

This guy made Number 2 on the list, if you can name him I'm impressed.  That is a COVID helmet I think.

(https://i.imgur.com/MHwC1xZ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 10, 2021, 07:01:07 PM

it's not Sir Francis

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 10, 2021, 07:08:20 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 10, 2021, 07:01:07 PM

it's not Sir Francis

It is not.  Weird helmet design.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on January 10, 2021, 08:04:34 PM

It's not George Patton's "Green Hornet" design for a tanker uniform.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 10, 2021, 08:09:29 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 09, 2021, 03:53:15 PM

Sure, it's a traditionalists' safe, consensus list. 
Jim Brown, one could say, is on these lists for his NFL career and eventual reputation....that he was merely a 5th-place Heisman RB for a school with no tradition is ignored.  If he'd gone on to fizzle out after 2 years in the NFL and become a car salesman, he wouldn't be ranked on any college football list.  But human beings have some sort of blind spot when it comes to differentiating college and NFL. 
It's incredible.

Here, forget all that.  I hadn't looked at the title of the article.  To propose 9 of the 10 best players were running backs is flat out stupid.  You'd have to be a stupid person to suggest such a thing.  A 7 year old would make a list like that.

It's a poll, which means no individual said that. It means there's more consensus on who the high-end RBs are as compared to the most high-end QBs, DEs, WRs, whatever.

And for better or worse, this is a sport where the most consensus can build around workhorse backs for most of the sport's history. That doesn't make it a good list, more just one borne of a weird (bad) process.

(Also, lists are weird and silly. That putting numbers next to things can inspire even a pop of strong feeling is perpetually interesting. It's also an article copying another article, which is funny in its own way)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 10, 2021, 08:37:52 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 10, 2021, 06:56:55 PM

Georgia Football: 10 Best Players in Bulldogs History | Bleacher Report | Latest News, Videos and Highlights (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2498678-georgia-football-10-best-players-in-bulldogs-history)

I found this list, which looks reasonable I guess, I'd try and find room for Nick Chubb (the list is from 2015).

This guy made Number 2 on the list, if you can name him I'm impressed.  That is a COVID helmet I think.

(https://i.imgur.com/MHwC1xZ.png)

Sinkwich or Trippy.....those are the only black-and-white Dawgs I know.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 10, 2021, 10:02:54 PM

Frankie Sinkwich, the first player for a southern school to win the H.

Also was a Marine, which is more important.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 11, 2021, 04:39:58 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 09, 2021, 02:05:17 PM

I like this list.

But, it's just a subjective list

https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/College-football-best-players-all-time-Herschel-Walker-Bo-Jackson-Barry-Sanders-Archie-Griffin-158871761/#158871761_7 (https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/College-football-best-players-all-time-Herschel-Walker-Bo-Jackson-Barry-Sanders-Archie-Griffin-158871761/#158871761_7)

oddly, the list doesn't include Archie's ypc or Emmitt Smith

list sucks. Jim Brown isn't even close to being the best college football player ever. He's not even top 25 let alone #1. Arguably greatest NFL player and RB ever- sure. You can make that argument. College football? Not even close. Saturdays don't equal Sundays. They are ranking a lot of these guys purely off NFL. I think even Barry might be a little bit too high. His JR year was incredible and to this day the best RB season in CFB history- but his first two seasons he was a back-up and didn't really do much.

I'd put Herschel Walker #1, easily. Bo Jackson would be in my top 5 for sure- don't know where exactly but in there. Have to really think about it. Tim Tebow, Charles Woodson, Deion Sanders, Anthony Carter, Hugh Green, Ndamukong Suh, Orlando Pace, Reggie Bush, Derrick Thomas, Marcus Allen, Earl Campbell, Ricky Williams, Vince Young, Tony Dorsett, Larry Fitzgerald, and others would be way up there before I ever got to Jim Brown- the "#1 college player ever" LOL.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 11, 2021, 03:53:07 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p552x414/136667211_10224298228953774_5879376150756884153_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=oWlsOUQw96wAX93g0f6&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=34982900aa2a2c997845461d9e54b5d8&oe=6023F81F)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 13, 2021, 03:42:22 PM

I was in the park jogging and noticed a large film production happening, complete with snow, quite a bit of snow in fact.  I didn't see it being made, there was a few inches on the ground in places that had not melted.

The is the first production I've seen since March, and it was quite large, probably ten tractor trailers and a lot of gear.

Atlanta normally is a bigger film production area than Hollywood.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 14, 2021, 07:16:14 AM

I got my Turbotax dicc yesterday, not really a fun time, but it helps.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 14, 2021, 09:48:47 AM

Luke McCaffrey clearly possesses a deep appreciation for the sport of football and the quarterback position in general.

“I go back to Fran Tarkenton as one of the quarterbacks who I watch and try to build my game after,” he told reporter Steven Sipple in December 2018, not long before he officially became a Nebraska quarterback.

That would be Fran Tarkenton of the 1970s Minnesota Vikings.


Wait a second. He studies Fran Tarkenton? Really?

Yeah, the kid is a quarterback. He thinks of himself as a quarterback. Granted, he's a bit raw as a quarterback — he threw one touchdown pass and six interceptions this season — but he's still a quarterback.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 14, 2021, 12:19:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 14, 2021, 07:16:14 AM

I got my Turbotax dicc yesterday, not really a fun time, but it helps.

You got your WHAT?!?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 14, 2021, 01:02:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 14, 2021, 07:16:14 AM

I got my Turbotax dicc yesterday, not really a fun time, but it helps.

Im ordering mine today

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 14, 2021, 01:38:57 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 14, 2021, 12:19:34 PM

You got your WHAT?!?

I was wondering the same thing.  I think it's a typo and he's actually talking about this:



(https://i.imgur.com/vIchzBx.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 14, 2021, 01:46:43 PM

hah, they mailed them in 1998, just arrived yesterday!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 14, 2021, 02:41:22 PM

I order mine from amazon 

looking for a thumb drive version but cant find one

so Im going to have dig out my external cd player

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on January 14, 2021, 03:18:23 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 14, 2021, 01:38:57 PM

I was wondering the same thing.  I think it's a typo and he's actually talking about this:



(https://i.imgur.com/vIchzBx.jpg)

I still have my turbotax disks from the early 90s. Don't know why, I have nothing that will read them of course I also have all my tax returns dating back to my first filing in 1976.  They are all scanned now. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 14, 2021, 03:27:31 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on January 14, 2021, 03:18:23 PM

I still have my turbotax disks from the early 90s. Don't know why, I have nothing that will read them of course I also have all my tax returns dating back to my first filing in 1976.  They are all scanned now.

you could get an external drive to read them but your operating system probably would not run them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 14, 2021, 03:46:01 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on January 14, 2021, 03:18:23 PM

I still have my turbotax disks from the early 90s. Don't know why, I have nothing that will read them of course I also have all my tax returns dating back to my first filing in 1976.  They are all scanned now.

are you planning to run for office?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 14, 2021, 04:31:27 PM

I too have ancient TT discs around somewhere.

Dunno why either.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 14, 2021, 04:42:23 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 14, 2021, 03:46:01 PM

are you planning to run for office?

I think we've learned you can just keep all of your secrets, as long as you have the Senate in your pocket.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 14, 2021, 05:10:32 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 14, 2021, 04:42:23 PM

I think we've learned you can just keep all of your secrets, as long as you have the Senate in your pocket.

Thats political and Im gonna tell

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 14, 2021, 05:16:03 PM

it's allowed in this thread IF you keep it civil

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 14, 2021, 05:22:50 PM

Man, I wish caddies were still a thing. 

I started working at 13 as a caddie. In Illinois at the time, the earliest you could get a normal job was 14 (with a work permit from your school), but caddies could start at 13. 

I was hoping that there might be opportunities for my son this summer, as he turned 13 in August so he'll be 13 for the first half of the summer this upcoming year. 

I called the private country club close to his mom's house, and they don't have caddies. I finally found a course which does have caddies, but they have a caddie partnership with an external firm called CaddieNow which will only take you at age 18+. 

Then I checked here in CA, and you can't work anywhere until you're at least 14. 

Kid needs a damn job to learn to appreciate what it's like to actually work for and earn things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 14, 2021, 06:10:09 PM

I was mowing lawns and shoveling snow before I was 13.  Don't know if Iowa had any laws about such stuff back in the early 70s

I don't think so

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 14, 2021, 06:29:00 PM

I was working in the family restaurant by age 8, bussing tables and washing dishes.  No child labor laws appeared to apply...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 14, 2021, 06:45:05 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 14, 2021, 06:29:00 PM

I was working in the family restaurant by age 8, bussing tables and washing dishes.  No child labor laws appeared to apply...

Typically there are exceptions for kids working for their parents, as far as I know.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 14, 2021, 06:56:18 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on January 14, 2021, 06:45:05 PM

Typically there are exceptions for kids working for their parents, as far as I know.

Yes there are, I was just kidding around.

They paid me in soda-fountain "suicides" as I recall. :)

That was back before every 7-11 had an open soda fountain, so having free rein on the beverages was a big deal to a kid in 1980.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 14, 2021, 07:20:01 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 14, 2021, 06:56:18 PM

Yes there are, I was just kidding around.

They paid me in soda-fountain "suicides" as I recall. :)

That was back before every 7-11 had an open soda fountain, so having free rein on the beverages was a big deal to a kid in 1980.

When I worked as the starter on a golf course at 14, one of my perks was unlimited soda... I took advantage.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on January 14, 2021, 08:31:26 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on January 14, 2021, 05:22:50 PM

Man, I wish caddies were still a thing.

I started working at 13 as a caddie. In Illinois at the time, the earliest you could get a normal job was 14 (with a work permit from your school), but caddies could start at 13.

I was hoping that there might be opportunities for my son this summer, as he turned 13 in August so he'll be 13 for the first half of the summer this upcoming year.

I called the private country club close to his mom's house, and they don't have caddies. I finally found a course which does have caddies, but they have a caddie partnership with an external firm called CaddieNow which will only take you at age 18+.

Then I checked here in CA, and you can't work anywhere until you're at least 14.

Kid needs a damn job to learn to appreciate what it's like to actually work for and earn things.

My oldest stepson caddied at Southern Hills (site of several PGAs and US Opens) for a couple of summers.  He earned some decent coin.
Southern Hills is hosting the Sr. PGA this year, and may be the replacement for Trump's course for the 2022 PGA.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 14, 2021, 08:40:01 PM

speaking of golf and the PGA in other news...

my brother and I were invited to The Memorial Tournament at Muirfield Village Golf Club in Dublin, Ohio

my brother's colleagues and friend's parents live on the 9th hole of the course.  Apparently, folks that live on the course get perks, such as free passes and parking, access to the hospitality tents.  They also know Jack Nicklaus and say they will introduce me to Jack.

My brother will line up a short "talk" at OSU, so his airfare and lodging will be comped.  All I need to do is get there.  12 hour drive or a flight.

So, I will be in C-bus a few days the first week of June.

Looking forward to it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on January 14, 2021, 08:56:36 PM

That's pretty cool, FF!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 14, 2021, 09:14:27 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on January 14, 2021, 05:22:50 PM

Man, I wish caddies were still a thing.

I started working at 13 as a caddie. In Illinois at the time, the earliest you could get a normal job was 14 (with a work permit from your school), but caddies could start at 13.

I was hoping that there might be opportunities for my son this summer, as he turned 13 in August so he'll be 13 for the first half of the summer this upcoming year.

I called the private country club close to his mom's house, and they don't have caddies. I finally found a course which does have caddies, but they have a caddie partnership with an external firm called CaddieNow which will only take you at age 18+.

Then I checked here in CA, and you can't work anywhere until you're at least 14.

Kid needs a damn job to learn to appreciate what it's like to actually work for and earn things.

I didn't have a first "job" until I was 18. Granted, the first job was a doozy and a very good growing experience. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on January 14, 2021, 10:24:23 PM

I delivered papers at 12-13.  Mowed lawns of course.   One guy, an immigrant from the Netherlands,  Krommenhoef.  He wouldn't let me mow on the sabbath and had me use his manual push mower.   The guy also wore wood shoes and puffed some exotic looking pipe, long wispy beard as he examined my passes.  No wonder I had such strong triceps as a kid.   

 A few houses down was Mr. Rambo (seriously). Total opposite.   Some kind of machinist.   Let me use his big rider, always had metal on the radio in garage.  Kids in neighborhood always wondered what kind of firearms he owned.   In winter as we'd play hockey on the pond across the street He'd come out to see what the problem was when we'd eventually start arguing or fighting about something.   Neighborhoods thrive when you have enigmas like that.   His name was Rambo, in the early mid 80s!   We wouldn't dare cut through his yard, heck I'd be pissed too, I cut that sucker.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 15, 2021, 10:21:52 AM

I had a Christmas job in 1972 at JC Penny selling bikes.  I earned MW $2.60 an hour and was glad of it.  A recession hit the next year and they didn't hire temps like me.

My next job was graduate assistant, which paid around $5,000 a year, yay.  My next job I had until I retired.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on January 15, 2021, 11:10:06 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 14, 2021, 03:46:01 PM

are you planning to run for office?

I was actually asked to run for congress almost 30 years ago by a group of people.  As much as I would have loved to do it, too much time spent fundraising and didn't want the anal exam by the press, opponent, etc.

As to keeping the disk, I am a pack rat. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on January 15, 2021, 11:13:24 AM

I had a couple of paper routes, the morning paper and the evening paper.

Also worked most summer on a farm. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 15, 2021, 11:19:21 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 14, 2021, 08:40:01 PM

 They also know Jack Nicklaus and say they will introduce me to Jack.

Why not Jack can afford the counseling that would naturally follow

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 15, 2021, 11:27:31 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on January 15, 2021, 11:10:06 AM

I was actually asked to run for congress almost 30 years ago

Hence your handle

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2021, 11:54:02 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 15, 2021, 11:19:21 AM

Why not Jack can afford the counseling that would naturally follow

wouldn't terrible for Jack if he didn't sit down with me for a few drinks and a couple cigars

I'll bet he has stories that would rival mine

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 15, 2021, 12:18:03 PM

Invite Feherty,Zoeller and Trevino while you're at it.That'd be a group I'd like to sit down with to wet many a nipperkin

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2021, 12:21:31 PM

a couple of them might be there

seems Jack made some friends along the way that enjoy attending his tournament from time to time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 15, 2021, 12:49:55 PM

Miss Noonan Miss

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2021, 12:56:24 PM

if only Carl, Ty, Al, and Lacey Underall would be there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 15, 2021, 01:03:59 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 15, 2021, 12:18:03 PM

Invite Feherty,Zoeller and Trevino while you're at it.That'd be a group I'd like to sit down with to wet many a nipperkin

Back in the day, when golf courses were being built left and right, I had to meet Trevino and others for weekly coordination meetings, as he was a consultant for the course (not the main designer). Man, that dude could drink. Holy crap.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 15, 2021, 01:06:59 PM

Said to be funnier than all f*** too

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 15, 2021, 01:10:08 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 15, 2021, 12:56:24 PM

if only Carl, Ty, Al, and Lacey Underall would be there

My sophomore year of college I had the hots for this cute blonde freshman named Lacy. Realized Caddyshack came out in 1978, and she was born in 1979... 

Probably not the best idea to make that character someone's namesake, but she grew up to have quite the resemblance. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 15, 2021, 01:11:25 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on January 15, 2021, 01:10:08 PM

My sophomore year of college I had the hots for this cute blonde freshman named Lacy. Realized Caddyshack came out in 1978, and she was born in 1979...

Damn I'm getting old

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 15, 2021, 01:11:56 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 15, 2021, 01:06:59 PM

Said to be funnier than all f*** too

He was hilarious. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 15, 2021, 01:20:13 PM

I sometimes wonder whatever happened to those gals I had the hots for back in the day.

I imagine they are all old and wrinkled and most of them fat now, like me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 15, 2021, 01:30:51 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 15, 2021, 01:03:59 PM

Back in the day, when golf courses were being built left and right, I had to meet Trevino and others for weekly coordination meetings, as he was a consultant for the course (not the main designer). Man, that dude could drink. Holy crap.

well he's an ex marine what did you expect

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 15, 2021, 01:56:38 PM

Roberto Clemente was a Marine, as was Vince Dooley.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 15, 2021, 02:12:54 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 15, 2021, 01:56:38 PM

Roberto Clemente was a Marine, as was Vince Dooley.

as was Rob Riggle- for 23 years- the comedian/actor. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 15, 2021, 02:15:35 PM

As is my son. Not a big drinker. He'll be here in a few hours.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 15, 2021, 02:17:46 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 15, 2021, 01:56:38 PM

Roberto Clemente was a Marine, as was Vince Dooley.

yeah but could they hit a 2 iron

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 15, 2021, 02:56:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 15, 2021, 01:20:13 PM

I sometimes wonder whatever happened to those gals I had the hots for back in the day.

I imagine they are all old and wrinkled and most of them fat now, like me.

I saw a then-current picture of my serious college GF a few years ago. 

Dodged a bullet. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 15, 2021, 03:26:46 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on January 15, 2021, 02:56:57 PM

I saw a then-current picture of my serious college GF a few years ago.

Dodged a bullet.

Ironically, she’s still pretty, but the bullet was dodged for the other reasons. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2021, 03:33:59 PM

never judge a broad by her pretty face

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 15, 2021, 03:34:53 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 15, 2021, 03:26:46 PM

Ironically, she’s still pretty, but the bullet was dodged for the other reasons.

Well, she isn't.

But I suspect that the reason I broke up with her (the other reasons) didn't get better with age either. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2021, 03:41:15 PM

they could mellow with age, but I've not experienced that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 15, 2021, 03:52:49 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 15, 2021, 03:41:15 PM

they could mellow with age, but I've not experienced that

I'm sure you've heard the old saw, "Men find a woman and hope that she won't change; women find a man and hope that he will."

If she didn't change, she wasn't for me. If she did... Well I wasn't going to wait around for that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 15, 2021, 03:54:54 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 15, 2021, 03:33:59 PM

never judge a broad by her pretty face

I have found that the prettier they are the crazier they are. It's best to marry an uggo, then just have fun with the crazies on the side.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2021, 03:56:30 PM

I've heard it

it's been my experience that everyone changes over time

some for the better, some for the worse

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 15, 2021, 03:58:30 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 15, 2021, 01:20:13 PM

I sometimes wonder whatever happened to those gals I had the hots for back in the day.

They're running around with clown faces after surgery to appear younger

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 15, 2021, 04:07:33 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 15, 2021, 01:56:38 PM

Roberto Clemente was a Marine, as was Vince Dooley.

George Carlin racked up an impressive three court-martials, several other disciplinary actions, and a general discharge three years into his enlistment

Richard Pryor was imprisoned and discharged after two years of service for a physical altercation involving a white soldier who was overly amused by a racially charged scene in a film, according to a 1999 profile in The New Yorker.


Jimi Hendix - “Pvt. Hendrix plays a musical instrument during his off-duty hours, or so he says. This is one of his faults because his mind apparently cannot function while performing duties and thinking about his guitar.”

His commanding officer, Capt. Gilbert Batchman, wrote in his May 1962 request for discharge (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/jimis-private-parts?page=6) that Hendrix's issues included “behavior problems, requires excessive supervision while on duty, little regard for regulations, apprehended masturbating in platoon area while supposed to be on detail.”

Hendrix would receive an honorable discharge soon after that and the Army’s problem child would soon carve out a nice career as a voodoo child.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 15, 2021, 04:17:21 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/21sGByA.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Tpn78pz.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/joFenVk.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/zMasOig.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/wSvaHX6.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/wranB8M.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 15, 2021, 04:17:42 PM

7 American Celebrities Who Just Couldn't Hack It In The Armed Forces - Task & Purpose (taskandpurpose.com) (https://taskandpurpose.com/entertainment/7-celebrities-military-careers/#:~:text=George)

Note that they were all Air Force or Amy except Steve McQueen, who was a Marine, and spoke highly of his experience as one.  I had not known he was a Marine.

He made some superb movies (duh).

Steve McQueen Movies: 15 Greatest Films Ranked Worst to Best - GoldDerby (https://www.goldderby.com/gallery/steve-mcqueen-movies-15-greatest-films-ranked-worst-to-best/the-great-escape/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 15, 2021, 04:20:28 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 15, 2021, 03:58:30 PM

They're running around with clown faces after surgery to appear younger

Lmao. Reminds me of that Bill Burr bit. 

NSFW....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pznB7WP4P1o

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 15, 2021, 04:23:12 PM

ONly pay for what you need.

Have your money in hand and your order in mind.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 15, 2021, 04:30:52 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 15, 2021, 04:20:28 PM

Lmao. Reminds me of that Bill Burr bit.

Regarding women who get plastic surgery - "You look like you lost a fight .....3 days ago" :D

https://youtu.be/FjLT-xI8_MA?t=2

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 15, 2021, 04:31:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 15, 2021, 01:20:13 PM

I sometimes wonder whatever happened to those gals I had the hots for back in the day.

I imagine they are all old and wrinkled and most of them fat now, like me.

Some people sadly, genuinely, peak in high school.  That must be awful.  Of the group of hotties from my HS, I know at least a couple wound up marrying and divorcing their HS BFs and work as local waitresses.  And that's all they'll ever be.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 15, 2021, 04:32:08 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 15, 2021, 04:30:52 PM

Regarding women who get plastic surgery - "You look like you lost a fight 3...days ago" :D

They look like crayons that sat in a hot car.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2021, 07:32:17 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 15, 2021, 12:18:03 PM

Invite Feherty,Zoeller and Trevino while you're at it.That'd be a group I'd like to sit down with to wet many a nipperkin

David Feherty’s golf talk program to end after 10 years and nearly 150 episodes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 15, 2021, 09:54:30 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 15, 2021, 07:32:17 PM

David Feherty’s golf talk program to end after 10 years and nearly 150 episodes

Thats too bad I really enjoyed his show

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 16, 2021, 08:52:50 AM

in other news...

I'm thankful I survived the blizzard and that we all have football to entertain us today

I'll be rooting against Rogers and the Pack this afternoon

the blizzard wasn't really that bad, but we did close the office about 1pm Friday afternoon

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 16, 2021, 11:34:24 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 15, 2021, 07:32:17 PM

David Feherty’s golf talk program to end after 10 years and nearly 150 episodes

Damn,didn't watch it alot but was never disappointed when I did.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on January 16, 2021, 12:28:59 PM

Didn't get much snow here in MSP, maybe 1-2" of slop.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 17, 2021, 12:55:06 PM

College football bids farewell to Urban Meyer, who will try to succeed where so many have failed (cbssports.com) (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-bids-farewell-to-urban-meyer-who-will-try-to-succeed-where-so-many-have-failed/)

This is why I pay little attention to sports writers.  I can get equal or better prognostications around here.  Granted, my own would have been as bad or worse of course.

The season is only loosely predictable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 17, 2021, 03:08:42 PM

Boy, Sunday AM sports options:  college basketball or hockey.  Bleh. 
.
Today will be spent doing lesson plans and producing a 30-team Whoa Nellie order from Ft. Hood, TX.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 18, 2021, 12:29:51 PM

Reports: Tennessee to part ways with Jeremy Pruitt

https://247sports.com/college/tennessee/Article/Jeremy-Pruitt-Fired-Tennessee-Vols-Football-Head-Coach-Coaching-Search-157430488/

After the way the Fanbase treated Schiano I wish them continued distress

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on January 18, 2021, 12:36:41 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 18, 2021, 12:29:51 PM

Reports: Tennessee to part ways with Jeremy Pruitt

https://247sports.com/college/tennessee/Article/Jeremy-Pruitt-Fired-Tennessee-Vols-Football-Head-Coach-Coaching-Search-157430488/

After the way the Fanbase treated Schiano I wish them continued distress

I can't imagine the optics of firing a coach for NCAA violations, and replacing him with Hugh Freeze

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 18, 2021, 12:56:49 PM

The optics of firing ANOTHER coach so soon are already bad enough.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 18, 2021, 12:59:38 PM

Winning >>>>>>>> optics

Winning trumps all.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 18, 2021, 01:05:13 PM

because winning = $$$

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 18, 2021, 01:16:20 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 17, 2021, 12:55:06 PM

College football bids farewell to Urban Meyer, who will try to succeed where so many have failed (cbssports.com) (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-bids-farewell-to-urban-meyer-who-will-try-to-succeed-where-so-many-have-failed/)

This is why I pay little attention to sports writers.  I can get equal or better prognostications around here.  Granted, my own would have been as bad or worse of course.

The season is only loosely predictable.

Is that a prognostication?

It reads like a meditation on a man he knows. Not the greatest piece in the world, just a small piece of somewhat interesting perspective. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 18, 2021, 01:18:38 PM

LOL @ Tennessee.  I thought you were supposed to be good when you cheated.  Yeesh.  The dumpster fire rages on!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 18, 2021, 01:19:47 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 18, 2021, 12:59:38 PM

Winning >>>>>>>> optics

Winning trumps all. 

make UT great again

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 18, 2021, 01:20:21 PM

I think it's nice when a sportswriter revisits his earlier posts.  One thing fun about CFB is the teams that "come out of nowhere", and the apparently great teams that implode.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 18, 2021, 01:23:37 PM

I have pondered how many poor seasons it takes before a program simply fades from view, how much turnover with the HC, etc.  Obviously, it depends, Cincinnati could do it in 2 years probably.  Michigan?  They have not imploded like Tennessee of late, I'd opine Tenn is on the precipice.

Another coach with a rebuilding job and no guarantees of doing much better in 2-3 years.

Of course, a great or near great coach can turn it around quickly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 18, 2021, 01:35:17 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 18, 2021, 01:23:37 PM

I have pondered how many poor seasons it takes before a program simply fades from view, how much turnover with the HC, etc.  Obviously, it depends, Cincinnati could do it in 2 years probably.  Michigan?  They have not imploded like Tennessee of late, I'd opine Tenn is on the precipice.

Another coach with a rebuilding job and no guarantees of doing much better in 2-3 years.

Of course, a great or near great coach can turn it around quickly.

They have the booster support to recruit. So it's a matter of finding someone who keeps shit together. 

I honestly thought Jones did a relatively good job to a point. And then the damn bottom dropped out. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 18, 2021, 01:42:24 PM

They likely can manage to be ranked in the teens in most years, recruitingwise.  That might get them 9-4 seasons with a good coach (not great, just gooc).

Tennessee Volunteers Football Record By Year | College Football at Sports-Reference.com (sports-reference.com) (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/tennessee/index.html)

Their last ten win season was 2007, also their last final ranking in the top 20.  Jones managed 9-4 twice in his tenure, which isn't terrible for a record those years.  At some point, the top level recruits simply don't even think of you unless they are in state, and even then.

And they are paired with Alabama each year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 18, 2021, 01:44:00 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 18, 2021, 01:23:37 PM

I have pondered how many poor seasons it takes before a program simply fades from view, how much turnover with the HC, etc.  Obviously, it depends, Cincinnati could do it in 2 years probably.  Michigan?  They have not imploded like Tennessee of late, I'd opine Tenn is on the precipice.

Another coach with a rebuilding job and no guarantees of doing much better in 2-3 years.

Of course, a great or near great coach can turn it around quickly.

I think, like most of anything, it comes down to recruiting. 

Michigan still gets good recruits, even through the Rodriguez/Hoke coaching years. Notre Dame, as they went through the Davie/Willingham/Weis coaching run, still got good recruits. I don't know as much about Alabama, but I'll bet that between Stallings and Saban they didn't fall off the map completely regarding recruiting. 

That, to me, is the key. If you're still recruiting well through non-performing coaches, you're still a helmet team. When the recruiting fades, is when you're in danger of falling off. 

That's also the difference with coaches that are overperforming. If you have a coach that is really good at spotting, coaching up, and developing talent, we'll say a Ferentz or a Dantonio, you can look really good. But if the recruiting actually doesn't uptick, as soon as that coach is gone you see a falloff. 

Football success at the collegiate level* is a function of talent+coaching. The "haves" are the haves because they have the talent, regardless of whether they have good coaches. When they get a coach that matches that talent, they're perennial NY6/CFP contenders. The have-nots, however, may have great outlier years where they might see the NY6 or CFP based on coaching rather than talent [and luck], but when they get there and face a team that has both talent & coaching, they get exposed. 

 * Truth is it's talent+coaching at all levels. But in college, talent is based on recruiting, which is a naturally unequal playing field. In most pro sports, there are drafts and salary caps, which brings all teams much closer to parity in talent levels unless they've got horrible management. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 18, 2021, 01:59:53 PM

If one has offers from say Bama, Ohio State, Clemson, UGA, Auburn, Florida, Texas, and the like, does Tennessee compete with that?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 18, 2021, 02:18:05 PM

Who do they think they are going to hire?

Urban just went to the NFL. Jon Gruden is busy. Vince Lombardi is dead.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 18, 2021, 02:27:29 PM

Bo Pelini and Mike Riley are available

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 18, 2021, 02:27:50 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 18, 2021, 01:59:53 PM

If one has offers from say Bama, Ohio State, Clemson, UGA, Auburn, Florida, Texas, and the like, does Tennessee compete with that?

if the bagman is serious, yes!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 18, 2021, 02:41:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 18, 2021, 01:59:53 PM

If one has offers from say Bama, Ohio State, Clemson, UGA, Auburn, Florida, Texas, and the like, does Tennessee compete with that?

Early playing time!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 18, 2021, 02:50:44 PM

they can get that anywhere

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 18, 2021, 02:57:43 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 18, 2021, 01:42:24 PM

They likely can manage to be ranked in the teens in most years, recruitingwise.  That might get them 9-4 seasons with a good coach (not great, just gooc).

Tennessee Volunteers Football Record By Year | College Football at Sports-Reference.com (sports-reference.com) (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/tennessee/index.html)

Their last ten win season was 2007, also their last final ranking in the top 20.  Jones managed 9-4 twice in his tenure, which isn't terrible for a record those years.  At some point, the top level recruits simply don't even think of you unless they are in state, and even then.

And they are paired with Alabama each year.

They've been 12th-16th in total talent across the past four years. The downside is 2-3 very tough games a year, plus a crossover. 

The plus side is they should be better than 4-5 conference teams every year, and it's not like Florida is always that far ahead. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 18, 2021, 04:12:18 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 18, 2021, 01:59:53 PM

If one has offers from say Bama, Ohio State, Clemson, UGA, Auburn, Florida, Texas, and the like, does Tennessee compete with that?

Quote from: FearlessF on January 18, 2021, 02:27:50 PM

if the bagman is serious, yes!

Find out when Hugh Freeze gets there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 18, 2021, 05:54:05 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 18, 2021, 02:57:43 PM

The plus side is they should be better than 4-5 conference teams every year, and it's not like Florida is always that far ahead.

(https://i.imgur.com/nTCxqFx.jpg)

No...not always.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 18, 2021, 05:57:05 PM

I considered early playing time, and it's a consideration, but at say Bama a top tier talent is going to get PT early also, at least in blow outs and STs.  And by his second season he should be starting, or rotating.  Now, a QB is going to check who is already present for how long, but not starting your first year can be fine and then move up the second.

The key is to go wherever gives you the clearest path to the League.

There is a reason nearly all the 5 star dudes sign with a handful of programs, special cases aside.

The top ranked teams on the 247 2021 recruiting list have commits for 7, 5, 4, 3, and 2 five stars,  No one else has more than one.

Seven five stars, in one year, and no doubt some near that level.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on January 18, 2021, 09:24:53 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 18, 2021, 12:29:51 PM

Reports: Tennessee to part ways with Jeremy Pruitt

https://247sports.com/college/tennessee/Article/Jeremy-Pruitt-Fired-Tennessee-Vols-Football-Head-Coach-Coaching-Search-157430488/

After the way the Fanbase treated Schiano I wish them continued distress

Does anybody know the specifics of why Pruitt was fired for cause? If recruiting violations that's just the excuse to get out of the buyout. If he wins enough nobody in Knoxville cares how much is getting funneled to the Linebacker's Dad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 19, 2021, 08:53:08 AM

Pictures of coeds "waxing his bald head?"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 19, 2021, 11:19:09 AM

easy now, this is a family thread

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 19, 2021, 12:10:41 PM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on January 18, 2021, 09:24:53 PM

Does anybody know the specifics of why Pruitt was fired for cause? If recruiting violations that's just the excuse to get out of the buyout. If he wins enough nobody in Knoxville cares how much is getting funneled to the Linebacker's Dad.

It's apparently "condoning" violations, or not doing enough to stop them.  The details are sparse, and I expect Pruitt's lawyer will negotiate a parting gift.

Pruitt may have problems finding a coaching job now though even as DC.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 19, 2021, 12:38:05 PM

he might have that problem for a year or two, then all will be forgotten

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 19, 2021, 12:41:09 PM

Depends on whether he's hit with a show-cause.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 19, 2021, 12:50:14 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 19, 2021, 12:10:41 PM

Pruitt may have problems finding a coaching job now though even as DC.

Evidently he was given an extension last summer and his buy out was 24.8(from what I've read) unless they have a morals clause

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 19, 2021, 12:56:13 PM

He's being fired for cause, so the contract has no buy out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on January 19, 2021, 01:52:30 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 19, 2021, 12:10:41 PM

It's apparently "condoning" violations, or not doing enough to stop them.  The details are sparse, and I expect Pruitt's lawyer will negotiate a parting gift.

Pruitt may have problems finding a coaching job now though even as DC.

Nah, it's 1970's style.  Literal bags of cash

https://twitter.com/247Sports/status/1351575146998476802?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 19, 2021, 01:59:22 PM

dude was trying

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 19, 2021, 02:06:10 PM

Striking resemblance to Pruitt.

(https://i.imgur.com/UIvwziJ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 19, 2021, 03:09:42 PM

I've been reading more than usual about our Civil War back in the day and remain impressed with several basic things:

1.  How armies back then were not wiped out by disease, and of course more of the 620,000 or so who died did so of disease than combat.

2.  How they could at times line up 60 yards apart with rifles and have at it, as they did at Second Manassas for an hour or so, in the open, and not wipe each other out.

3.  How they could march so far in a day, and get up and do it again, often barefoot (Valley Campaign 1862).

4.  How they appear relatively impervious to heat, cold, mosquitos, ticks, fleas, insects of all kinds, snakes, and lions.

5.  How anyone could effectively control an army of 60,000 individuals.  I know in 1862, that control was often very limited.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 19, 2021, 03:23:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 19, 2021, 03:09:42 PM

I've been reading more than usual about our Civil War back in the day and remain impressed with several basic things:

1.  How armies back then were not wiped out by disease, and of course more of the 620,000 or so who died did so of disease than combat.

2.  How they could at times line up 60 yards apart with rifles and have at it, as they did at Second Manassas for an hour or so, in the open, and not wipe each other out.

3.  How they could march so far in a day, and get up and do it again, often barefoot (Valley Campaign 1862).

4.  How they appear relatively impervious to heat, cold, mosquitos, ticks, fleas, insects of all kinds, snakes, and lions.

5.  How anyone could effectively control an army of 60,000 individuals.  I know in 1862, that control was often very limited.

another interesting fact was a soldiers average height was 5'8" and average weight was 143 pounds

ages ranged from 18 to 39 averaging 26

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 19, 2021, 03:37:28 PM

Napoleon was about 5'5" relative to the average male height at the time of 5'6".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 19, 2021, 03:47:25 PM

I should have been born back then

I coulda played D-Line!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 19, 2021, 03:52:45 PM

Dan Patrick: Tennessee coaches handed McDonald's bags with cash to recruits (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/Article/Jeremy-Pruitt-fired-Tennessee-Vols-football-NCAA-recruiting-violations-McDonalds-bags-cash-coaching-search-159558159/?fbclid=IwAR3TOPFndzm77ZTlkIVH7ekfsVIlArJgQVziLm5Yj46xH2tpe8qMp6haAVI)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 19, 2021, 04:27:46 PM

https://twitter.com/i/status/1351520742375092227

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 19, 2021, 05:59:46 PM

The wife and I walked today as is our wont, and stopped at Chick-Fil-A for a sammich.  We took our meals outside, there is a nice pocket park right there, and a pretty well dressed black guy approached me and asked if I'd buy him a sammich.  So, we go inside and I order a sammich and he says "Get a milkshake too" and I said no, just a sammich, I pay.  He comes out directly and sits in the park below us and eats.  He doesn't look homeless, to me, he has a fanny pack with something in it.  He finishes and waves as he departs and says "Thanks".

I hope he's OK, not sure why he was asking for food, other than being hungry, it must be kind of demoralizing to ask for something as basic as food.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 19, 2021, 06:31:07 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 19, 2021, 05:59:46 PM

The wife and I walked today as is our wont, and stopped at Chick-Fil-A for a sammich.  We took our meals outside, there is a nice pocket park right there, and a pretty well dressed black guy approached me and asked if I'd buy him a sammich.  So, we go inside and I order a sammich and he says "Get a milkshake too" and I said no, just a sammich, I pay.  He comes out directly and sits in the park below us and eats.  He doesn't look homeless, to me, he has a fanny pack with something in it.  He finishes and waves as he departs and says "Thanks".

I hope he's OK, not sure why he was asking for food, other than being hungry, it must be kind of demoralizing to ask for something as basic as food.

Or maybe he's actually quite wealthy, and the way he preserves his wealth is by asking random people to buy him food.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 19, 2021, 06:47:41 PM

Dammit, all my McDonalds bag had in it was food!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 19, 2021, 06:51:22 PM

I wish I could stop making my Whoa Nellie game and just play it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 20, 2021, 10:35:24 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 19, 2021, 06:31:07 PM

Or maybe he's actually quite wealthy, and the way he preserves his wealth is by asking random people to buy him food.

HA I was just reading on a Sparty Board about people buying the meal at drive thrus for the folks behind them.A feel good fleece IMO.Rather than randomely dumping 40 bucks on the SUV with 4 people behind you just donate to those in need if you have it


https://247sports.com/college/michigan-state/board/93/Contents/so-im-at-the-in-n-out-burger-drivethru-159354027/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 20, 2021, 10:44:34 AM

I was traveling from Texas to Iowa a few years ago, stopped in OKC for gas.  I man asked me for gas money.  Said he needed gas to get his family home.  I gave him 10 bucks.

I was walking out of the station after using the restroom.  The man was paying for gas at the counter.  Not buying food or drinks, just the gas.  Seemed legit, so when he came outside I gave him another 20.  Seemed he needed it more than I did.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 20, 2021, 10:44:40 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 19, 2021, 06:31:07 PM

Or maybe he's actually quite wealthy, and the way he preserves his wealth is by asking random people to buy him food.

The wife and I discussed this possibility, or that he was doing OK and was simply out of cash and had no CC.

I wish I could do more for the indigent though, somehow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 20, 2021, 10:51:01 AM

I work about 6-8 hrs a week at a food pantry.Unloading trucks,sorting,itemizing then rotating food stock.Then loading cars on pick up days

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 20, 2021, 10:55:18 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 20, 2021, 10:44:34 AM

The man was paying for gas at the counter.  Not buying food or drinks, just the gas.  Seemed legit, so when he came outside I gave him another 20.  Seemed he needed it more than I did.

😎 You get a Yuengling FF

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 20, 2021, 11:05:03 AM

When the restaurants had to close down in March, they had a lot of food delivered or ordered, and "we" combined with a number of them to take that excess food and break it down  and repack it into boxes to give away, ostensibly to food industry workers, who now were out of a job.

Fortunately, the weather was very nice, rather sunny, and I got a bit of a burn.  We had 30-40 folks working, it was hard work, made about 4,000 boxes of food.  The cars were lined up in two lanes to get their box, probably a hundred  cars often as not, some expensive cars too.

It was enough to feed a family of four for 2-3 days I think.  It generated a LOT of cardboard waste.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 20, 2021, 11:09:02 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 20, 2021, 11:05:03 AM

 It generated a LOT of cardboard waste.

There is a Catholic Church around the corner from the food pantry who let use their recycle bins as long as everything is flattened

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 20, 2021, 11:11:15 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 20, 2021, 10:44:34 AM

I was traveling from Texas to Iowa a few years ago, stopped in OKC for gas.  I man asked me for gas money.  Said he needed gas to get his family home.  I gave him 10 bucks.

I was walking out of the station after using the restroom.  The man was paying for gas at the counter.  Not buying food or drinks, just the gas.  Seemed legit, so when he came outside I gave him another 20.  Seemed he needed it more than I did.

now he had beer money

bless you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 20, 2021, 11:40:27 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 20, 2021, 11:09:02 AM

There is a Catholic Church around the corner from the food pantry who let use their recycle bins as long as everything is flattened

We had dumpsters provided, the flattening part fell to me, on Day two anyway.  I was impressed just how much packaging is involved in food delivered.  The yogurt packages were the worst.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 20, 2021, 11:41:31 AM

The wife just explained "INCREDIBLE!" that Lady GOOGOO is singing the national anthem.  I guess I don't keep up with pop music stars.

She wants to watch the inaugural.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 20, 2021, 12:50:49 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/poZR17f.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 20, 2021, 01:51:18 PM

Great post CD,The answer was hiding in plain sight,the world needs more Abraham Walds.......and Lincolns

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 20, 2021, 03:44:37 PM

ma-2020-progress-report-final-010721.pdf (ctycms.com) (https://ctycms.com/ga-midtown/docs/ma-2020-progress-report-final-010721.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1Ac1wZPgSO8f_LF0U7YGOK2HK1T1Hg60UEnj6UO2KjVECIqThX9Rhzt_g)

That's me on Page Two in the Braves shirt with white hair packing food boxes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 20, 2021, 08:35:15 PM

I don't know where else to put this, but it should be known.  You know who lucked out with this covid thing?  Florida State.  They skipped what would have been one helluva whoopin'. 

Yes, it bothers me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2021, 08:46:01 AM

I know there are around 3 1/2 to 4 times as many basketball games as P5 Football games, but it seems many more basketball games are postponed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 22, 2021, 12:56:41 PM

Telescopes on Far Side of the Moon Could Illuminate the Cosmic Dark Ages - Scientific American (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/telescopes-on-far-side-of-the-moon-could-illuminate-the-cosmic-dark-ages1/?fbclid=IwAR1JH8-R2VAUGvICe71Qv0kvvRVW67p89F-4GMNtRUcnG_yjzRhrPbq1VRo)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 22, 2021, 01:11:42 PM

an average head weighs 8 lbs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2021, 01:13:10 PM

yes, but everything's bigger in Texas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 22, 2021, 01:20:45 PM

Ten gallons weighs about 75 pounds.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 22, 2021, 01:24:09 PM

Gasoline weighs about 6 pounds per gallon.  Pilots need to know that.  Of course, it might be easier in metric, but whatever.

Forty liters of water weighs about 40 kilograms.

Which is about 88 pounds.  Four liters is 3.8 gallons.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2021, 01:24:15 PM

the head in a 10 gallon hat?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 22, 2021, 01:41:08 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 22, 2021, 01:11:42 PM

an average head weighs 8 lbs

With all of the beetles, ants, and termites, it's GOT to be lower than that.:72:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 22, 2021, 01:49:36 PM

If things expand when the get hotter why does water expand when it turns into ice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 22, 2021, 01:52:33 PM

Why do we park on a driveway, and drive on a parkway?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 22, 2021, 01:53:21 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 22, 2021, 01:49:36 PM

If things expand when the get hotter why does water expand when it turns into ice

A)  the Louisiana purchase
B)  because glaciers receded 
C)  no one knows (like the Pythagorean Theorem)
D)  Earl Campbell

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 22, 2021, 01:59:26 PM

I'm always gonna go with D) Earl Campbell

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 22, 2021, 02:04:19 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 22, 2021, 01:59:26 PM

I'm always gonna go with D) Earl Campbell

I never knew the grow roses in Tyler

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 22, 2021, 02:07:29 PM

JJust in case you dont remember

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRslKY04CIQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 22, 2021, 02:09:29 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 22, 2021, 01:49:36 PM

If things expand when the get hotter why does water expand when it turns into ice

It expands because it forms a crystalline structure rather than simply coalescing into a solid. 

As a thought experiment, have you ever thought about what would happen to the universe if water froze to be more dense as a solid than as a liquid, and thus sink? Would life be sustainable on Earth?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 22, 2021, 02:12:19 PM

Based on all of the fishing gear I've left at the bottom of lakes I'd say yes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 22, 2021, 02:13:18 PM

Earl's a funny dude.

My i s c & a aggie wife's Aggie dad was the GM of an oil distribution company, and his company was also great at putting on large-scale fish frys-- like for 2,000+ people.  It came about because they used to throw big fish fry parties for their customers, and their customers were very large companies like Shell, Texaco, etc.

They eventually evolved to where they catered other fish frys, because they already had the equipment and expertise and manpower to do it.  So for many years, they catered the VIP Fish Fry at the Texas Relays (which is a pretty big 3-day track and field event held at UT in Austin every year).  Lots of high school and college teams come in to compete from all over the state and country, which brings in a lot of college coaches for both track and football, and over time it became a big networking/socializing event for all sports-related people in the state, football and non-football. 

So anyway, Earl Campbell naturally attends these kinds of events, and although alcohol wasn't ever on the menu, the crew always drank beer as they fried fish and served, and a few select, important guests, were always informally given some of it.  I actually offered Mack Brown a beer at the first one he attended in the Spring of 1998, a couple of months after he was hired but before he'd coached a game.  He politely declined.  It was Lone Star, so, I get it.

Earl is known for liking his beer, but he'd never accept when offered. I'd be "working" the event, which for me consisted of chatting with people far more important than I am and fetching them beer every so often.  So whenever I saw Earl, I'd be sure to walk over and offer him and his entourage some beers.  But he always refused and instead, he liked to slide around behind all the folks working the fryers and serving line, locate an ice chest with beer in it, and sneak some.  He'd do this several times throughout the evening, and it took 2-3 hours for us to serve all 2000+ folks coming through the lines.  I guess he liked the idea of getting away with something, but my FIL always had me specifically put that ice chest in a place Earl would be able to easily identify and access it. And it always made me smile seeing him slink along the back wall to find it and grab some.

Just one of those quirks, that make him such an interesting person.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 22, 2021, 02:13:53 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on January 22, 2021, 02:09:29 PM

It expands because it forms a crystalline structure rather than simply coalescing into a solid.

As a thought experiment, have you ever thought about what would happen to the universe if water froze to be more dense as a solid than as a liquid, and thus sink? Would life be sustainable on Earth?

all I know is be careful putting bottled beer in the freezer to quickly cool them

they do explode as I found out

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 22, 2021, 02:19:17 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 22, 2021, 01:52:33 PM

Why do we park on a driveway, and drive on a parkway?

Why do Americans choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 22, 2021, 02:20:21 PM

Why does sour cream have an expiration date?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 22, 2021, 02:22:06 PM

Earl came into one of our BBQ restaurants and was quickly recognized and our manager comped his meal

Our restaurants were cafeteria style so there were no waiters or waitresses

never the less he left a $20 dollar tip when he left

that made out busser very happy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 22, 2021, 02:24:43 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 22, 2021, 02:20:21 PM

Why does sour cream have an expiration date?

Just remember…if the world didn’t suck, we’d all fall off.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 22, 2021, 02:30:32 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 22, 2021, 02:24:43 PM

Just remember…if the world didn’t suck, we’d all fall off.

not the world just Oklahoma

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 22, 2021, 02:40:07 PM

Man, I miss having a fish fry at my Grandma's or Uncle's place in GA.  Fried catfish, fries, and all the hushpuppies (and no damn jalapenos in it!!!!!!!).  Just sweet vidalia onion in the mix.  Half of the puppies would be gone before the actual meal began.  

Those were the days.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 22, 2021, 02:48:42 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on January 22, 2021, 02:09:29 PM

It expands because it forms a crystalline structure rather than simply coalescing into a solid.

As a thought experiment, have you ever thought about what would happen to the universe if water froze to be more dense as a solid than as a liquid, and thus sink? Would life be sustainable on Earth?

It would be a problem as a lot of water life survives winters at the bottom, and the oceans would freeze at the bottom.  The depths of oceans are around 39°F.

Interesting, ice made from D2O is heavier than liquid water, so if you see ice in your glass sinking, it means someone is trying to poison you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 22, 2021, 03:00:57 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 22, 2021, 02:40:07 PM

Man, I miss having a fish fry at my Grandma's or Uncle's place in GA.  Fried catfish, fries, and all the hushpuppies (and no damn jalapenos in it!!!!!!!).  Just sweet vidalia onion in the mix.  Half of the puppies would be gone before the actual meal began. 

Those were the days.

Yup.  My FIL retired so I don't "help" him cater events all the time anymore, but he'll still fry some catfish 2 or 3 times per year and I make sure never to turn down one of those invitations.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2021, 03:05:35 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 22, 2021, 02:13:18 PM

Earl's a funny dude.


Just one of those quirks, that make him such an interesting person.

Skoal Brother
and guest on Triple D in Big D

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2021, 03:42:14 PM

IOWA CITY, Iowa (AP) — The former CEO of Make-A-Wish Iowa has been arrested on three felony charges alleging she embezzled tens of thousands of dollars from the charity that supports sick children, the group confirmed Friday.

Jennifer Woodley, 40, was booked at the Polk County Jail in Des Moines on Thursday on two counts of first-degree theft and the unauthorized use of a credit card. She was released on bond.

Months after becoming its leader, Woodley secretly awarded herself a $10,000 bonus in October 2019 that had not been approved by the board, according to criminal complaints unsealed Friday.

The bonus, which Woodley added to a list of legitimate bonuses earned by other employees, cost the organization $15,540 in all, police said.

Woodley also made 84 unauthorized purchases on an organization credit card that were for her personal use, totaling more than $23,000 over a 10-month span, the complaints state. Woodley allegedly did not reimburse the group for those expenses.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 22, 2021, 04:07:54 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 22, 2021, 02:13:18 PM

Earl is known for liking his beer, but he'd never accept when offered. I'd be "working" the event, which for me consisted of chatting with people far more important than I am and fetching them beer every so often.  So whenever I saw Earl, I'd be sure to walk over and offer him and his entourage some beers.  But he always refused and instead, he liked to slide around behind all the folks working the fryers and serving line, locate an ice chest with beer in it, and sneak some.  He'd do this several times throughout the evening, and it took 2-3 hours for us to serve all 2000+ folks coming through the lines.  I guess he liked the idea of getting away with something, but my FIL always had me specifically put that ice chest in a place Earl would be able to easily identify and access it. And it always made me smile seeing him slink along the back wall to find it and grab some.

Just one of those quirks, that make him such an interesting person.

You didn't realize Earl was the inspiration for the song?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrwjiO1MCVs 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 22, 2021, 05:37:32 PM

I'm sure everyone saw the news about Hank Aaron.  Phil Niekro passed away earlier.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 23, 2021, 09:55:58 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on January 22, 2021, 04:07:54 PM

You didn't realize Earl was the inspiration for the song?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrwjiO1MCVs

https://youtu.be/j73OsXo19vI?t=4

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 23, 2021, 10:03:22 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 22, 2021, 05:37:32 PM

  Phil Niekro passed away earlier.

On pg 33 of the Obit Thread

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 23, 2021, 10:56:29 AM

What Is Quantum Computing and How Does it Work? | Built In (https://builtin.com/hardware/quantum-computing)

Pretty neat, some big changes in the offing perhaps in our lifetimes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2021, 12:26:25 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/139870698_10157870993772322_5832944691652363998_o.png?_nc_cat=101&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ZwVlBqefRpMAX9b6jUB&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&_nc_tp=30&oh=d6413170218c4b0c805a030da7dedfd3&oe=602FF740)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 23, 2021, 04:23:30 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/7Bsq1u5.png)
Little Larry attended a horse auction with his father. He watched as his father moved from horse to horse, running his hands up and down the horse's legs and rump, and chest. After a few minutes, Larry asked, 'Dad, why are you doing that?' His father replied, 'Because when I'm buying horses, I have to make sure that they are healthy and in good shape before I buy. Larry, looking worried, said, 'Dad, I think the UPS guy wants to buy Mom

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2021, 10:24:25 PM

According to the University of Michigan’s student-run newspaper The Michigan Daily, the Michigan health department will suspend all Wolverines athletics for two weeks after a student-athlete tested positive for the B.1.1.7 COVID-19 variant. A student-athlete was the first confirmed case of the new virus variant in the state.

The pause will begin starting on Sunday, January 24. The Daily is reporting that there were five confirmed cases of the new variant and 15 more presumed positive cases.

The B.1.1.7 variant was believed to be brought over at the beginning of the new semester from a student-athlete from the United Kingdom. All members of Michigan’s athletics department are expected to quarantine for 14 days.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2021, 10:25:33 PM

The suspension of the University of Michigan's athletic department will not affect Michigan State's athletic department.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 23, 2021, 10:40:11 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 23, 2021, 10:24:25 PM

According to the University of Michigan’s student-run newspaper The Michigan Daily, the Michigan health department will suspend all Wolverines athletics for two weeks after a student-athlete tested positive for the B.1.1.7 COVID-19 variant. A student-athlete was the first confirmed case of the new virus variant in the state.

The pause will begin starting on Sunday, January 24. The Daily is reporting that there were five confirmed cases of the new variant and 15 more presumed positive cases.

The B.1.1.7 variant was believed to be brought over at the beginning of the new semester from a student-athlete from the United Kingdom. All members of Michigan’s athletics department are expected to quarantine for 14 days.

sucks for basketball

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 24, 2021, 10:26:30 AM

Saw that Parts Unknown is on HBOMax - pretty easily the best travel show of all time and easy to go down a rabbit hole for hours.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 24, 2021, 10:26:26 PM

Think Fleck would leave Minnesota to go to Tennessee?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 24, 2021, 11:03:55 PM

sure, it's possible

much would depend on how much Fleck loves his situation in Minny

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 25, 2021, 12:14:04 AM

I was thinking more about stepping into the dumpster fire that is UTK.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2021, 08:17:24 AM

I don't think Tennessee would allow him to but "ROW" and plaster oars and his face on everything.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2021, 08:17:41 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/ZSg99a7.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 25, 2021, 08:21:42 AM

Um that's clearly stealing Ty Cobb's line about facing today's pitchers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2021, 08:58:49 AM

MJ was just as ruthless as Ty Cobb.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 25, 2021, 09:24:25 AM

He should try coming up with his own material,or is that just a smug Bulls Fan

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2021, 09:29:19 AM

It's not real. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 25, 2021, 09:34:37 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/fbME7OD.png)

Taken with my phone through my Celestron this morning, Cooper's Hawk in the park.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 25, 2021, 10:55:16 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2021, 08:17:24 AM

I don't think Tennessee would allow him to but "ROW" and plaster oars and his face on everything.

They would if he won the East.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2021, 11:22:51 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 25, 2021, 10:55:16 AM

They would if he won the East.

Nah. 

(https://i.imgur.com/wsyE34V.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ZykdhH4.png)


(https://i.imgur.com/Zm7UADd.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 25, 2021, 11:25:42 AM

I suppose it hinges on whether he just enjoys coaching at UM and thinks he makes plenty of money versus wanting a huge challenge and more money.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2021, 11:26:21 AM

At a program facing probation...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 25, 2021, 11:31:17 AM

Well, I'm available.  A reasonably successful current HC might not be interested, as we have seen in the past.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2021, 11:32:39 AM

Greg Schiano would have that program doing much better.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 25, 2021, 12:17:26 PM

They'd tie it into the Volunteer navy stuff.  A daisy-orange paddle.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2021, 12:19:32 PM

I knew you would bring that up...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 25, 2021, 12:20:44 PM

Because it's obvious.  Although I'm no longer a Captain, with no boat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2021, 12:27:25 PM

I'm still a licensed captain. Just renewed with the USCG. 100 Ton Master.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 25, 2021, 12:48:18 PM

I'm a licensed pilot, but I'm not  current at all, and I misplaced my flight bag in the move, license, log, electronics, the whole schmear.  Annoying.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 25, 2021, 01:10:50 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2021, 08:17:24 AM

I don't think Tennessee would allow him to but "ROW" and plaster oars and his face on everything.

This School Has Their Own NAVY? Tennessee Vol Navy | SEC WEEK EP. 4 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmAL9pKwpXw)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 26, 2021, 09:07:14 AM

I wonder if going home after another loss hurts less if you're driving a boat instead of a car...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 26, 2021, 10:59:59 AM

[font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif]Journey of a Man 
 
When I was 13, I hoped that one day I would have a girlfriend with big boobs.
 
When I was 16 I got a girlfriend with big boobs, but there was no
 
passion, so I decided I needed a passionate girl with a zest for life.
 

In college I dated a passionate girl, but she was too emotional.
 
Everything was an emergency; she was a drama queen, cried all the time
 
and threatened suicide. So I decided I needed a girl with stability.
 

When I was 25 I found a very stable girl but she was boring. She was
 
totally predictable and never got excited about anything. Life became
 
so dull that I decided that I needed a girl with some excitement.
 

When I was 28 I found an exciting girl, but I couldn't keep up with
 
her. She rushed from one thing to another, never settling on anything.
 
She did mad impetuous things and made me miserable as often as happy.
 
She was great fun initially and very energetic, but directionless. So
 
I decided to find a girl with some real ambition.
 

When I turned 30, I found a smart ambitious girl with her feet planted
 
firmly on the ground, so I married her. She was so ambitious that she
 
divorced me and took everything I owned.
 

I am older and wiser now, and I am looking for a girl with big boobs.[/font][/font][/color]

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 26, 2021, 11:46:58 AM

I am older and wiser now, and I am looking for a girl with big boobs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2021, 08:53:39 AM

Josh Heupel?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 27, 2021, 12:12:15 PM

good luck Josh

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 27, 2021, 12:41:12 PM

I just have to say- it's pretty awesome that a bunch of posters on a forum on Reddit can literally wipe out billionaire Wall Street short seller hedge fund assholes. LOVE IT. 

CNBC whining about it and then openly lying on air for the hedge funds and TD Ameritrade putting restrictions on trade on the stocks the Reddit posters are targeting is just- wild- but so 2020. Different set of rules for the extremely wealthy- and state TV has to prop them up and control the narrative.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 27, 2021, 01:54:39 PM

If the super-wealthy merely paid their fair share in taxes, I think there'd be a lot less anger tossed their way.  But in a system in which the cost of a great tax attorney pays for itself with results, you can't really fault them, either.

It's all broken.  

I was having this conversation the other day with a friend - name one major system that isn't broken.  We couldn't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2021, 01:57:59 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 27, 2021, 01:54:39 PM

If the super-wealthy merely paid their fair share in taxes, I think there'd be a lot less anger tossed their way.  But in a system in which the cost of a great tax attorney pays for itself with results, you can't really fault them, either.

It's all broken. 

I was having this conversation the other day with a friend - name one major system that isn't broken.  We couldn't.

Go ahead and put a call into the CEO's of Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, Twitter, etc.

Let them know you mean it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 27, 2021, 02:57:48 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 27, 2021, 01:54:39 PM

If the super-wealthy merely paid their fair share in taxes, I think there'd be a lot less anger tossed their way.  But in a system in which the cost of a great tax attorney pays for itself with results, you can't really fault them, either.

It's all broken. 

I was having this conversation the other day with a friend - name one major system that isn't broken.  We couldn't.

The super-wealthy buy off the politicians to write the laws they want. This is nothing new. It has just been exacerbated and made worse by things like the citizens united ruling. Now the money flowing into campaign donations and pacs is just obscene and unprecedented. Dan Rather did a great news program on a channel that Mark Cuban owned called HDNet back in the day- maybe 12-15 years ago- and one of the 60 minute episodes was on lobbying and the money that's poured into K-street. In the 1980's, there was maybe a few hundred registered lobbyists in DC- when Rather did this show back in 2005-2006- he reported that in 2005-2006 there was 30,000 registered lobbyists in DC. 30,000. In just a 20-25 year span- when from few hundred to 30,000. That number is no doubt even larger now. DC is now the richest city in the United States. It had never been in the history of this country. This isn't a coincidence.

There is one party that rules this country. Always find it fascinating that people are so pathetic and root for the Blue team over the Red or vice versa. They disagree on very little, mostly unimportant things. For the most part- they are one party. Why are they one party? They are controlled by their masters who donate to their campaigns. You scratch my back- I scratch yours. This country has descended into fascism where the line between the largest corporations and the government to the point where the line is non-existent- they are one in the same- they have merged.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 27, 2021, 03:10:31 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2021, 01:57:59 PM

Go ahead and put a call into the CEO's of Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, Twitter, etc.

Let them know you mean it.

Their compensation is pretty much 100% tied to stock these days- and for most part are only paying capital gains rates- which is a much lower % than normal tax rates would be in their bracket.

Whole system is F*%$$D. You have people working their asses off at some shitty middle management job making $120,000k a year paying 30-35%+ in taxes while you might have an exec at that same company being compensated in millions of dollars worth of stock options on top of getting all kinds of perks like taking the company jet on vacations and having the company pay for his vacations and all kinds of shit and then paying 15-20% in tax on sale of their stock (capital gains) and then they have the best tax attorneys in the world to use every trick under the sun to bring that % down even further.

Funny little way they find to just rig system more and more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2021, 03:23:45 PM

I get stock options.  They are treated as earned income. 

A Big Tax Deal is "carried interest", which does not apply to normal executive compensation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 27, 2021, 03:35:09 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 27, 2021, 03:23:45 PM

I get stock options.  They are treated as earned income.

A Big Tax Deal is "carried interest", which does not apply to normal executive compensation.

you aren't getting the same stock options those top level guys are getting.....and well those ones- they aren't taxed as income- if they hold them that is. Most sell a little- hold a lot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2021, 03:48:06 PM

They are the same stock options anyone gets as compensation.  There can be no "special kind" for anyone else.  

Now, I sell my options, if you exercise them and get stock, you can delay the tax bill on  further appreciation.  There are also Restricted Stock Units and other means of delayed compensation.

But stock options show up as earned income.  For everyone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 27, 2021, 03:49:16 PM

The effective tax rate for the nation as a whole is aprox 13%

the top 20% of compensated tax payers have an effective tax rate of aprox 23%

The top 40% of compensated taxpayers pay over 96% of this nations tax liability

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2021, 03:56:25 PM

One issue is with earned versus unearned income.  Let's say I have $100 million.  I can invest that in municipal bonds and get 1-2% interest tax free on that.  If I live on a million a year, I never touch principal (inflation  would) and pay no income taxes.  Or if I own a company and don't sell it, I pay no income tax because I have no income.  If I see part of it, having held it a year, I pay capital gains taxes on the unearned income.  I don't pay FICA on any of it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 27, 2021, 04:01:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 27, 2021, 03:56:25 PM

One issue is with earned versus unearned income.  Let's say I have $100 million.  I can invest that in municipal bonds and get 1-2% interest tax free on that.  If I live on a million a year, I never touch principal (inflation  would) and pay no income taxes.  Or if I own a company and don't sell it, I pay no income tax because I have no income.  If I see part of it, having held it a year, I pay capital gains taxes on the unearned income.  I don't pay FICA on any of it.

how did you get the $100 million

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2021, 04:05:29 PM

If I start a company that does well, for example, I could end up with the $100 million in net asset value.  I'd probably have paid myself salary of course on which I'd pay income taxes and FICA.  But the company value would be mine if I retained sole ownership.

This is usually how folks GET rich.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 27, 2021, 04:12:31 PM

California is dying. Between 2008-2019 alone, 18,000 businesses have left California to relocate in other states. HP announced in December that they were moving their headquarters from California and relocating to Houston, TX and Oracle also announced in December they were doing the same and moving to Ausitn, TX.

Elon Musk already moved to Austin, TX and plans on relocating Tesla's headquarters there.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ez90rXhMWjE

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2021, 04:17:48 PM

Not going to post the LA Times' "Make America California Again" article, but feel free to search it out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 27, 2021, 04:20:24 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 27, 2021, 02:57:48 PM

It has just been exacerbated and made worse by things like the citizens united ruling.

The Citizens United ruling was a nothingburger. 

SpeechNow.org v FEC is the droid you're looking for. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 27, 2021, 04:22:53 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2021, 04:17:48 PM

Not going to post the LA Times' "Make America California Again" article, but feel free to search it out.

California has around 27% of all homelessness in the country. 53% of all Califonrian's are considering leaving the state. 63% of millennials are considering leaving the state. 66% of people in the SF Bay Area said they would considering leaving California if they could always work from home.

If the entire US became "California" where the hell would we all go to flee? Canada probably won't take us. Mexico? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2021, 04:25:59 PM

I'd probably head to Sardinia. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 27, 2021, 04:28:10 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on January 27, 2021, 04:20:24 PM

The Citizens United ruling was a nothingburger.

SpeechNow.org v FEC is the droid you're looking for.

citizens united ruling overturned election spending restrictions. Opened pandoras box to allow corporations and the wealthy to spend unlimited funds on campaign advertising so long as they aren't formally co-ordinating with a candidate. the super PAC became a thing because of it. in the 8 years after it was passed, super pacs alone spent $3 billion to federal elections. It's hardly a nothingburger. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 27, 2021, 04:28:54 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2021, 04:25:59 PM

I'd probably head to Sardinia.

Never been, I desperately want to go. I think I'd go to Sicily. Been there a couple times and love it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2021, 04:29:56 PM

Sicily would be fine too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 27, 2021, 04:30:22 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 27, 2021, 04:12:31 PM

California is dying. Between 2008-2019 alone, 18,000 businesses have left California to relocate in other states. HP announced in December that they were moving their headquarters from California and relocating to Houston, TX and Oracle also announced in December they were doing the same and moving to Ausitn, TX.

Elon Musk already moved to Austin, TX and plans on relocating Tesla's headquarters there.

I wouldn't say California is dying. HP, Oracle, and Tesla will still retain major operations in the Bay Area, because that's where TONS of good employees are. They're moving HQ. 

California may lose some prominence, but people still want to live here. People put up with the negatives (cost of living and taxes) in exchange for the weather, the beaches, the scenery, and the cultural variety offered by the state, etc. 

What I think we're seeing, particularly with the Silicon Valley set, is that companies are trying to diversify. Heck, one of the reasons for that is that the employment market for tech workers in the Bay Area is TOO competitive--it's hard to retain employees when literally every corner houses another potential employer for them. 

Not everyone wants the Bay Area lifestyle, so they can get employees who are perhaps a little more stable and less likely to jump jobs on a whim in Austin or Houston. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 27, 2021, 04:37:04 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 27, 2021, 04:28:10 PM

citizens united ruling overturned election spending restrictions. Opened pandoras box to allow corporations and the wealthy to spend unlimited funds on campaign advertising so long as they aren't formally co-ordinating with a candidate. the super PAC became a thing because of it. in the 8 years after it was passed, super pacs alone spent $3 billion to federal elections. It's hardly a nothingburger.

No, Speechnow got rid of spending limits. The Super PAC thing is from Speechnow, although a lot of people believe it was due to Citizens United because they occurred at the same time and everyone complains about Citizens United.

All Citizens United did was ensure corporations to have the same speech rights that the individuals who comprise that corporation have. Another misconception is that it said corporations were people--whereas corporate "personhood" is a completely different and much longer-standing idea. 

Citizens United said that individuals have the right to political speech, and when those individuals come together in a corporate form, they don't forfeit that right. 

But it was SpeechNow that said that individuals cannot be limited in their donations to political organizations that operate and advocate outside of direct coordination with candidates. 

Two different things. What you're accusing Citizens United of was done by SpeechNow. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 27, 2021, 05:06:42 PM

Gotta love this board. Legit learn something new here everyday. Pretty cool. Thanks for the edumication brother!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 27, 2021, 05:12:52 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 27, 2021, 05:06:42 PM

Gotta love this board. Legit learn something new here everyday. Pretty cool. Thanks for the edumication brother!

No problem!

I did some research back in the day when everyone was up in arms over Citizens United... I did something rash, and ya know, actually read the majority opinion. Nothing I read had anything to do with the criticisms of the ruling, so I knew I had to dig deeper. 

I think Citizens United gets all the attention because of the facts of the case, and who the intended target was of the movie that Citizens United was trying to air. When--in close temporal proximity--SuperPACs became a thing, people just naturally conflated the two. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 27, 2021, 06:18:56 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 27, 2021, 04:22:53 PM

California has around 27% of all homelessness in the country. 53% of all Califonrian's are considering leaving the state. 63% of millennials are considering leaving the state. 66% of people in the SF Bay Area said they would considering leaving California if they could always work from home.

So, not that Ca is a paradise, but all these things basically come down to A. It's temperate B. It's expensive. 

The homelessness is exacerbated by several factors, but a big one is that just about all year in both massive metro areas, you won't die sleeping outside. And that's actually kinda rare. 

And people tend to "consider" leaving places that are expensive. I live in a town I like very much and I've been considering leaving for about half the time I lived here (and will leave very soon).

The part about considering leaving if they could work from home, I bet they would. Jobs pay more there. And if I could keep a salary from a high-priced part of the world and live somewhere I could buy a house, I'd consider the hell out of that.

(That or they're getting priced out, like in Austin) 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 27, 2021, 06:22:54 PM

I'd point out that for all the people "considering" leaving California, the population grows every year. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 27, 2021, 06:27:38 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on January 27, 2021, 06:22:54 PM

I'd point out that for all the people "considering" leaving California, the population grows every year.

Yeah, because children are born. 

California is actually losing people. More people are leaving the state than people are moving to the state.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 27, 2021, 06:28:44 PM

This is amazing. Basically just dropping knowledge shitting all over the CNBC interviewer for 30 Mins straight. Amazing.

https://youtu.be/036bv0zsIxY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 27, 2021, 06:29:35 PM

And what's the worse-case scenario?  CA goes from the 6th-largest economy in the world to 7th?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 27, 2021, 06:30:28 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 27, 2021, 06:27:38 PM

Yeah, because children are born.

California is actually losing people. More people are leaving the state than people are moving to the state.

So just to be clear:  children aren't being born there?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 27, 2021, 06:35:21 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 27, 2021, 04:22:53 PM

53% of all Califonrian's are considering leaving the state. 

Cool, and I bet 95% of all Mississippians are as happy to stay put as a pig in shit.  So what?  
I see that stat and think wow, they're being proactive, keeping their options open, and are financially able to move when they choose to.  
.
Meanwhile, down in MS, they're happily awaiting that 3rd grandbaby from their HS daughter, while motoring around in Walmart looking for a new rebel flag hankie.  You couldn't entice them out of their echo chamber if you bribed them with free diabetes meds and 100 scratch-offs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 27, 2021, 06:44:32 PM

Man, irritated.

Ordered an electric fireplace for the bedroom. It took a couple weeks to arrive. I scoped out the spot on the wall, and was getting ready to install it when I noticed the plug, which is...not for American outlets.

It shipped from California to Ohio, so not sure how I got a European version, but there we are. Probably why California is dying.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 27, 2021, 06:45:46 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 27, 2021, 06:44:32 PM

Man, irritated.

Ordered an electric fireplace for the bedroom. It took a couple weeks to arrive. I scoped out the spot on the wall, and was getting ready to install it when I noticed the plug, which is...not for American outlets.

It shipped from California to Ohio, so not sure how I got a European version, but there we are. Probably why California is dying.

:043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 27, 2021, 06:52:08 PM

That's when I feel most defeated.  When I allow myself to get excited for a little something different/new/special and the world takes a big dump on it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 27, 2021, 07:21:40 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 27, 2021, 06:27:38 PM

Yeah, because children are born.

California is actually losing people. More people are leaving the state than people are moving to the state.

Net domestic migration is negative. Net migration is positive*. People from all over the world want to move to California. 

 * note - I'm only 80% sure of that... I haven't looked it up. What I've read suggests that the population growth is based BOTH on birth rates as well as international immigration, but I would need to confirm.

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 27, 2021, 06:44:32 PM

Man, irritated.

Ordered an electric fireplace for the bedroom. It took a couple weeks to arrive. I scoped out the spot on the wall, and was getting ready to install it when I noticed the plug, which is...not for American outlets.

It shipped from California to Ohio, so not sure how I got a European version, but there we are. Probably why California is dying.

Probably slow boat from China to California, to a warehouse. Then shipped from California to Ohio with nobody bothering to check the plug lol. Doubt it was manufactured in CA. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 27, 2021, 08:07:51 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on January 27, 2021, 07:21:40 PM

Net domestic migration is negative. Net migration is positive*. People from all over the world want to move to California.

 * note - I'm only 80% sure of that... I haven't looked it up. What I've read suggests that the population growth is based BOTH on birth rates as well as international immigration, but I would need to confirm.

Probably slow boat from China to California, to a warehouse. Then shipped from California to Ohio with nobody bothering to check the plug lol. Doubt it was manufactured in CA.

Hell Id want to move there too if I could get free education and free healthcare and couldnt get arrested 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on January 27, 2021, 11:50:30 PM

CA will lose a congressional seat for first time in either a long time or ever. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 12:20:47 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 27, 2021, 08:07:51 PM

Hell Id want to move there too if I could get free education and free healthcare and couldnt get arrested

Nothing wrong with the first two. At all. There are better, more efficient systems of health care and education out there.

And we have way too many people in prisons and jails as it is. We have less people in prisons and jails then China. Freaking China- where they can arrest people for anything and no one has any rights at all. And oh yeah, we have a quarter of their total population- if that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 12:22:58 AM

Yeah, just gonna leave this here....

Why and how is this shit legal? 

https://finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/nancy-pelosi-buys-tesla-calls-191017279.html?__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 12:24:44 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 12:20:47 AM

Nothing wrong with the first two. At all. There are better, more efficient systems of health care and education out there.

And we have way too many people in prisons and jails as it is. We have less people in prisons and jails then China. Freaking China- where they can arrest people for anything and no one has any rights at all. And oh yeah, we have a quarter of their total population- if that.

I think you meant to say we have more people in prisons then China not less

nothing wrong with the first two cept Joe six pack has to pay for their free rides

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 28, 2021, 07:02:09 AM

Update.  Good news, they completely refunded me.  I was worried they'd want me to try and send this thing back and it would be a huge pain in the ass.  But they said just keep it.  I ordered an adapter online, not sure if it will work, but if it does I got an electric fireplace for 12 bucks.  I suppose Cali can stop dying now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2021, 07:03:14 AM

California's population is now growing at its slowest rate in more than a century. The California Department of Finance, which monitors the state's population data, found that from July 1, 2019 to July 1, 2020, California saw a net gain of only 21,200 new residents — a 0.05% growth rate not seen since 1900.Dec 16, 2020

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2021, 07:11:59 AM

Legal ones

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2021, 07:22:46 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on January 27, 2021, 06:22:54 PM

I'd point out that for all the people "considering" leaving California, the population grows every year.

Barely, growth rate is near zero now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2021, 07:29:43 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 12:22:58 AM

Yeah, just gonna leave this here....

Why and how is this shit legal?

https://finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/nancy-pelosi-buys-tesla-calls-191017279.html?__twitter_impression=true

Yahoo calls it controvesial?It's flat out corruption,I realy detest these shirks where the hell is the long arm of the law?The Congess should immediately bring up charges agains her and the gaggle of sqwuaking twats that dumped their stocks last winter knowing there was a shut down coming

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2021, 07:34:25 AM

It could be her husband trading.

In my view, families of Congress persons should have their funds in a blind trust.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2021, 08:03:37 AM

In my view, congress people should serve, and then GO BACK TO WORK.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2021, 08:28:22 AM

A lot of things SHOULD be, but aren't.  I've reconciled myself to that condition.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2021, 08:31:14 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on January 27, 2021, 07:21:40 PM

Probably slow boat from China to California, to a warehouse. Then shipped from California to Ohio with nobody bothering to check the plug lol. Doubt it was manufactured in CA.

I've had some game supplies have this happen.  A card shop would only sell me 1 pack of card sleeves because there was a shortage.  He specified a bulk of them were on a ship in San Francisco, just sitting there.  I found some elsewhere, so idk how accurate he was.  
But getting things I know for a fact originate in China are s-l-o-w now.  Fun stuff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2021, 08:33:18 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 28, 2021, 07:03:14 AM

California's population is now growing at its slowest rate in more than a century. The California Department of Finance, which monitors the state's population data, found that from July 1, 2019 to July 1, 2020, California saw a net gain of only 21,200 new residents — a 0.05% growth rate not seen since 1900.Dec 16, 2020

Did we expect massive growth forever?  
Sounds like someone has the quarterly report to shareholders mindset to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2021, 08:34:24 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 28, 2021, 07:34:25 AM

It could be her husband trading.

In my view, families of Congress persons should have their funds in a blind trust.

Definitely - and this wouldn't be a big deal IF serving in Congress was a temp job and not a lifelong cash-grab.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 28, 2021, 08:35:39 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 12:22:58 AM

Yeah, just gonna leave this here....

Why and how is this shit legal?

https://finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/nancy-pelosi-buys-tesla-calls-191017279.html?__twitter_impression=true

I'm sure Nance has done some stuff, but I'm not super clear how that exactly connects. 

She or her husband bought a bunch of stock for a super popular and valuable company. That stock just went on an insane heater, jumping just short of 40 percent in value in under a month. 

The article explains "The purchases by Pelosi are questionable as arguments could be made that the companies stand to benefit from new President Joe Biden’s agenda." 

Was that new? Was there something that after the Dec. 22 purchase made clear companies like Tesla were gonna benefit. Because if it's just "the new admin is gonna push electric cars" didn't we know that on election day and before? I assume down the road it could perhaps be troubling, but it doesn't seem like there's a strong correlation. 

I suppose the argument could be made that you just can't tinker with your stocks and such while in office, but that would of course really drive away people who earned enough to invest in a valuable way, which I assume some folks want. Granted, it makes a good headline and generates them clicks, so who am I to judge that?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 28, 2021, 08:38:10 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2021, 08:03:37 AM

In my view, congress people should serve, and then GO BACK TO WORK.

It's a weird case. Because governing is to a degree a skill. And it takes some time to get OK at it. But when you're around long enough, certain rots set in. 

I understand the appeal of term limits, but then you just had veteran staffers and lobbyists who get more ability to direct lost lawmakers (to a degree, it would be like only letting you employ engineers under 32. I assume that would be kinda a mess)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2021, 08:40:21 AM

Fastest Growing States 2021 (worldpopulationreview.com) (https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/fastest-growing-states)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2021, 08:42:23 AM

If your holdings are in a blind trust, they still get invested, you just have no control over it.

I think many in Congress are not very bright and are manipulated by staffers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 10:14:01 AM

Robinhood app completely shuts down buying of GameStop, AMC, and other stocks. Will only allow users to sell. Wow.

How is that not illegal massive market manipulation?

Robinhood is actively colluding with hedge funds to stop the bleeding and to try to bring those stock prices down so the shorts won’t get squeezed out of existence.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2021, 10:19:57 AM

I see trading was halted, I presume by the exchange.

I'm curious what Robinhood offers over say Schwab.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 28, 2021, 10:29:27 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 10:14:01 AM

Robinhood app completely shuts down buying of GameStop, AMC, and other stocks. Will only allow users to sell. Wow.

How is that not illegal massive market manipulation?

Robinhood is actively colluding with hedge funds to stop the bleeding and to try to bring those stock prices down so the shorts won’t get squeezed out of existence.

I have mixed feelings here. There is a value to protecting people from buying highly overvalued stock.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2021, 10:31:05 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 28, 2021, 10:29:27 AM

I have mixed feelings here. There is a value to protecting people from buying highly overvalued stock.

Who decides what is over valued?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2021, 10:31:12 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 28, 2021, 08:38:10 AM

It's a weird case. Because governing is to a degree a skill. And it takes some time to get OK at it. But when you're around long enough, certain rots set in.

I understand the appeal of term limits, but then you just had veteran staffers and lobbyists who get more ability to direct lost lawmakers (to a degree, it would be like only letting you employ engineers under 32. I assume that would be kinda a mess)

I don't disagree, but my guess is that for ethical new members of Congress, they steer clear of influential lobbyists at first.  And then, over time, after being inundated by them for years, pick the one(s) they deem as least awful and succumb to those. 

But it's just a guess.  It's probably both/all of the above.
.
As for term limits, I think it's essential, but not short ones.  Make it 20 years or something...but these guys who hold their seat for 40+ years are garbage.  They "rep" stodgy districts with no growth and lazy voters.  It should not be a career...maybe a Congressional mentor program to get newbies up to speed more quickly could be a thing - but it'd be a private career to do that.  

Anyway, there's far too much of the representative telling their district what they should want and not enough of the district telling the representative to actually BE a representative.  Honestly, they should change the name of the job, because I don't see much actual representation at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2021, 10:31:31 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 28, 2021, 10:31:05 AM

Who decides what is over valued?

The market (traders)?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2021, 10:33:10 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2021, 08:40:21 AM

Fastest Growing States 2021 (worldpopulationreview.com) (https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/fastest-growing-states)

dry and sunny > wet and sunny > all the other crap places to live

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 28, 2021, 10:34:30 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 28, 2021, 10:31:05 AM

Who decides what is over valued?

(https://i.imgur.com/FDcoh9U.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 10:38:30 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 28, 2021, 10:19:57 AM

I see trading was halted, I presume by the exchange.

I'm curious what Robinhood offers over say Schwab.

The exchange couldn’t just halt it- they have no valid reason to. 

Robinhood no commissions, completely free. Robinhood is most likely toast after this imo. They are going to lose hundreds of thousands if not millions of users.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2021, 10:39:40 AM

In a free and efficient market, traders decide prices, which are instantaneously accurate, nothing can be over valued.

The exchanges do have "trips" though that kick in at times.  

GME is back trading on Schwab anyway, apparently.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2021, 10:40:34 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 10:38:30 AM

The exchange couldn’t just halt it- they have no valid reason to.

Robinhood no commissions, completely free. Robinhood is most likely toast after this imo. They are going to lose hundreds of thousands if not millions of users.

No commissions?  Just like Schwab?

At least on stock trades anyway.

The exchange can halt trading, overall, or on a specific stock.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2021, 10:44:18 AM

I don't understand the Gamestop stock thing.
Why are a group of people doing this?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 10:44:49 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 28, 2021, 10:29:27 AM

I have mixed feelings here. There is a value to protecting people from buying highly overvalued stock.

I don’t think you’re quite understanding what’s going on here. 

Main Street just destroyed Wall Street at their own games- and Wall Street is crying foul. 

Wall Street was shorting 140% of all Game Stop shares in existence. They were having their minions go on CNBC every day trying to drive that company to zero. That’s the real scandal. That should be illegal.

Citadel by the way- runs all Robinhoods trades for them.

They are trying to stop themselves from getting hurt. They don’t give a shit about protecting people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 10:48:07 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2021, 10:44:18 AM

I don't understand the Gamestop stock thing.
Why are a group of people doing this?

It was stated by a group of people on reddit- but other Wall Street hedge funds piggybacked on it.

It’s a short squeeze. Bunch of shrewd redditors noticed that GameStop stock deliberately being destroyed by a bunch of assholes who rig/manipulate markets all the time to make money without anyone saying a word- so they basically just gave them a taste of their own medicine. And now they don’t like it and are trying to cry foul and change the rules.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2021, 10:56:13 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 10:48:07 AM

GameStop stock deliberately being destroyed by a bunch of assholes who rig/manipulate markets all the time to make money without anyone saying a word-

Hard to believe someone would do that, with all the ethical practices I've been told about here (with lots of money at stake).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 28, 2021, 11:24:01 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 10:44:49 AM

I don’t think you’re quite understanding what’s going on here.

Main Street just destroyed Wall Street at their own games- and Wall Street is crying foul.

Wall Street was shorting 140% of all Game Stop shares in existence. They were having their minions go on CNBC every day trying to drive that company to zero. That’s the real scandal. That should be illegal.

Citadel by the way- runs all Robinhoods trades for them.

They are trying to stop themselves from getting hurt. They don’t give a shit about protecting people.

I understand all of that - the issue is now it appears that the hedge funds are mostly getting out of Gamestop.  So buying Gamestop stock now at $350 a share or whatever it is gets you...a share of stock that just days ago was trading at four dollars.  It has gone up because Gamestop is a failing company - that's why they got shorted in the first place.  So the populist message of buying and holding Gamestop stock now is benefiting the big investors you mentioned earlier who will be more than happy to make a ton of money on a mostly worthless stock.  The people who get screwed will be the ones who own the stock when it goes back in the toilet, and it appears to me that this may be the people who are being told to hold or buy to stick it to the man.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 28, 2021, 11:32:25 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2021, 10:44:18 AM

I don't understand the Gamestop stock thing.
Why are a group of people doing this?

1. Gamestop's grew on their business model of buying/selling video games.  But people have by and large turned to buying their games digitally, so used games is no longer a thing.  So lately Gamestop has gone in the tank.

2. Hedge funds, which exist mostly to do weird crazy things with the stock market, noticed this and shorted them.  That is, they borrow shares, sell them at the current rate, then plan on buying the shares back at a later time when the share price falls, thereby making a profit.  The downside to this is if the share price goes up, you have to buy them at whatever the rate is. 

3. People on reddit noticed that hedge funds were constantly shorting Gamestop, put out the word to buy the stocks.  So the price starting going up.  This has snowballed and the price has gone from a low of around 4 bucks to a high of around 450 bucks.  So any hedge fund who borrowed the stock at 4 bucks now has to pay back 450 bucks for each share they borrowed.  So hedge funds have lost billions of dollars on this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 28, 2021, 11:33:49 AM

Or listen to an expert

https://twitter.com/avalonpenrose/status/1354496683938201600?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 11:36:47 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 28, 2021, 11:33:49 AM

Or listen to an expert

https://twitter.com/avalonpenrose/status/1354496683938201600?s=20

she should be on The View

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 11:37:17 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 28, 2021, 11:24:01 AM

I understand all of that - the issue is now it appears that the hedge funds are mostly getting out of Gamestop.  So buying Gamestop stock now at $350 a share or whatever it is gets you...a share of stock that just days ago was trading at four dollars.  It has gone up because Gamestop is a failing company - that's why they got shorted in the first place.  So the populist message of buying and holding Gamestop stock now is benefiting the big investors you mentioned earlier who will be more than happy to make a ton of money on a mostly worthless stock.  The people who get screwed will be the ones who own the stock when it goes back in the toilet, and it appears to me that this may be the people who are being told to hold or buy to stick it to the man.

I wouldn’t say that GameStop is a failing company. They weren’t Enron or going to zero. It was a company on hard times that has been in process restructuring and arguably on the upswing. 

Hedge funds were not just shorting the company. Please stop with that nonsense.  They were shorting 140% of all shares in existence- something that should be illegal- and they were actively trying to manipulate it and drive it into the dirt and as close to zero as possible so they could make money on their speculative bet that it would fall. 

And the hedge funds aren’t out of it completely. That’s the lie they’re spinning right now. Getting Robinhood to stop the trading and trying to get the stock going down is exactly what the shorts are trying to do right now in order to minimize their losses. They are not out of it. 

The hedge funds have lost $5.5 billion of cold hard cash shorting GameStop just in January- that’s money that went from their pockets on Wall Street to the pockets of little guys on Main Street- just this month alone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 11:40:47 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 28, 2021, 11:32:25 AM

1. Gamestop's grew on their business model of buying/selling video games.  But people have by and large turned to buying their games digitally, so used games is no longer a thing.  So lately Gamestop has gone in the tank.

2. Hedge funds, which exist mostly to do weird crazy things with the stock market, noticed this and shorted them.  That is, they borrow shares, sell them at the current rate, then plan on buying the shares back at a later time when the share price falls, thereby making a profit.  The downside to this is if the share price goes up, you have to buy them at whatever the rate is.

3. People on reddit noticed that hedge funds were constantly shorting Gamestop, put out the word to buy the stocks.  So the price starting going up.  This has snowballed and the price has gone from a low of around 4 bucks to a high of around 450 bucks.  So any hedge fund who borrowed the stock at 4 bucks now has to pay back 450 bucks for each share they borrowed.  So hedge funds have lost billions of dollars on this.

This kind of thing happens all the time

Thats why folks who make their living from swing trading stay the hell away from companies like Gamestop

There are just too many almost sure things out there to  fool around with those types of investments

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 28, 2021, 11:42:09 AM

I'm not defending the hedge funds at all - I'm saying that right now any fund that owns Gamestop stock is not a long term investment and so efforts to get people to buy right now feel more like a way for the current stock owners to get out before it inevitably falls back to earth.  You have to be crazy to think Wall Street isn't right now scheming to make sure Main Street take the hit when Gamestop stock falls back to earth.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 11:48:48 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 28, 2021, 11:42:09 AM

I'm not defending the hedge funds at all - I'm saying that right now any fund that owns Gamestop stock is not a long term investment and so efforts to get people to buy right now feel more like a way for the current stock owners to get out before it inevitably falls back to earth.  You have to be crazy to think Wall Street isn't right now scheming to make sure Main Street take the hit when Gamestop stock falls back to earth.

Thats why serious investors follow 3 rules

only invest in an up market

only invest in sound stocks

only invest in up trending stocks

additionally have a buy strategy and a sell strategy which includes a stop loss rule

be happy with a 5% to 10% gain then move on to the next candidate

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 11:51:26 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 28, 2021, 11:42:09 AM

I'm not defending the hedge funds at all - I'm saying that right now any fund that owns Gamestop stock is not a long term investment and so efforts to get people to buy right now feel more like a way for the current stock owners to get out before it inevitably falls back to earth.  You have to be crazy to think Wall Street isn't right now scheming to make sure Main Street take the hit when Gamestop stock falls back to earth.

Buying it and having the price soar upwards would’ve wiped out a lot of those hedge funds. Like non-existent- all gone bye bye. They didn’t close out their positions- demand on stock was so high and they shorted so much- more than actually exists- don’t think it would’ve been possible for them.

It falling back to earth right now only benefits Wall Street hedge funds- and that’s exactly what they want. If it free falls back to earth- they’ll take losses but they won’t be wiped out. This thing kept going- they’d have been wiped out. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 12:03:22 PM

Robinhood- which has tens of millions of active users- completely restricted people from buying GameStop, AMC, and a host of others.

They allowed people to sell the stock- and actually changed the sell button from red to green - after removing the green buy button in the app.

Tells you all you need to know really. If you forbid people from buying a stock and only allow them to sell it- what’s gonna happen- you’re going to push the price down. If that’s not deliberate and blatant market manipulation what is?

Edit: more than half of all Robinhood users- which is MILLIONS of people- own GameStop stock. They are unable to freely trade it. But hey- they can sell it in their Robinhood app. EL OH EL.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2021, 12:06:09 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 11:37:17 AM

The hedge funds have lost $5.5 billion of cold hard cash shorting GameStop just in January- that’s money that went from their pockets on Wall Street to the pockets of little guys on Main Street- just this month alone.

I don't exactly get it but I sure hope you are right

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 12:07:17 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 28, 2021, 12:06:09 PM

I don't exactly get it but I sure hope youa are right

Well it’s an oversimplification- there are a lot of big shareholders that have obviously made money- but also a lot of little guys have as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 28, 2021, 12:09:54 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 11:51:26 AM

Buying it and having the price soar upwards would’ve wiped out a lot of those hedge funds. Like non-existent- all gone bye bye. They didn’t close out their positions- demand on stock was so high and they shorted so much- more than actually exists- don’t think it would’ve been possible for them.

It falling back to earth right now only benefits Wall Street hedge funds- and that’s exactly what they want. If it free falls back to earth- they’ll take losses but they won’t be wiped out. This thing kept going- they’d have been wiped out.

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 28, 2021, 11:42:09 AM

I'm not defending the hedge funds at all - I'm saying that right now any fund that owns Gamestop stock is not a long term investment and so efforts to get people to buy right now feel more like a way for the current stock owners to get out before it inevitably falls back to earth.  You have to be crazy to think Wall Street isn't right now scheming to make sure Main Street take the hit when Gamestop stock falls back to earth.

Remember, the way to short stock is this:

• "Borrow" shares from an owner.
• Sell those shares immediately. You now owe the owner who lended you the share that number of shares, not the number of dollars those shares were worth.
• The incentive for the owner of the shares is that you are paying them some sort of fee for being able to borrow their shares. That's where they make their money. 
• At some point you have to pay back the borrower, and you have to pay them back in shares, not in dollars. If the shares are worth less than what they were when you sold them, you pocket the difference (minus whatever fee you had to pay for the privilege of borrowing). If the shares are worth more than they were when you sold them, you have to buy them at whatever the current price is to return them.

Where a "short squeeze" occurs is that shorting a stock is essentially a margin trade. If the paper value of the shares is high enough that you trigger how much margin the lender of those shares is willing to grant you, they can give you a margin call and force you to sell the shares.

But for some of these hedge funds, if they can put off their creditors until the stock drops back down to reality, they might not actually have to sell at all, in which case it WON'T cause them to lose a dime. As long as they're still holding the shares, their losses are paper losses. 

The large mutual funds (who are probably the lenders of those shares) want to keep that business--lending shares to hedge funds for a fee--more than they want a one-time windfall of a margin call and wiping out their customer base. Especially since those mutual funds know that GameStop isn't worth the current share price, so that if they do get their shares back from the hedge funds they are just going to have to sell them immediately anyway and drive the price right back down. 

So Mdot is right--any price drop now is good for the hedge funds. Price drops now can help them hold off their creditors and not be forced into the margin call that puts those PAPER losses into ACTUAL losses. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 12:15:04 PM

Class action lawsuit just filed against robinhood. 

You have senators and congressmen calling out robinhood and saying they’re going to be push for hearings/investigations. 

This just got way more interesting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2021, 12:16:24 PM

man alot of slippery shit going on

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2021, 12:17:24 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 12:15:04 PM

Class action lawsuit just filed against robinhood.

You have senators and congressmen calling out robinhood and saying they’re going to be push for hearings/investigations.

This just got way more interesting.

Why because they are better crooks than congress?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 12:21:05 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 12:03:22 PM

Robinhood- which has tens of millions of active users- completely restricted people from buying GameStop, AMC, and a host of others.

They allowed people to sell the stock- and actually changed the sell button from red to green - after removing the green buy button in the app.

Tells you all you need to know really. If you forbid people from buying a stock and only allow them to sell it- what’s gonna happen- you’re going to push the price down. If that’s not deliberate and blatant market manipulation what is?

Edit: more than half of all Robinhood users- which is MILLIONS of people- own GameStop stock. They are unable to freely trade it. But hey- they can sell it in their Robinhood app. EL OH EL.

wow remind me never to recommend Robinhood

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 12:29:07 PM

could it be that Robinhood was simply trying to protect wouldbe Gamestop investors from getting in deeper

in a stock which was artificially inflated

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 28, 2021, 12:29:25 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on January 28, 2021, 12:09:54 PM

Remember, the way to short stock is this:

• "Borrow" shares from an owner.
• Sell those shares immediately. You now owe the owner who lended you the share that number of shares, not the number of dollars those shares were worth.
• The incentive for the owner of the shares is that you are paying them some sort of fee for being able to borrow their shares. That's where they make their money.
• At some point you have to pay back the borrower, and you have to pay them back in shares, not in dollars. If the shares are worth less than what they were when you sold them, you pocket the difference (minus whatever fee you had to pay for the privilege of borrowing). If the shares are worth more than they were when you sold them, you have to buy them at whatever the current price is to return them.

Where a "short squeeze" occurs is that shorting a stock is essentially a margin trade. If the paper value of the shares is high enough that you trigger how much margin the lender of those shares is willing to grant you, they can give you a margin call and force you to sell the shares.

But for some of these hedge funds, if they can put off their creditors until the stock drops back down to reality, they might not actually have to sell at all, in which case it WON'T cause them to lose a dime. As long as they're still holding the shares, their losses are paper losses.

The large mutual funds (who are probably the lenders of those shares) want to keep that business--lending shares to hedge funds for a fee--more than they want a one-time windfall of a margin call and wiping out their customer base. Especially since those mutual funds know that GameStop isn't worth the current share price, so that if they do get their shares back from the hedge funds they are just going to have to sell them immediately anyway and drive the price right back down.

So Mdot is right--any price drop now is good for the hedge funds. Price drops now can help them hold off their creditors and not be forced into the margin call that puts those PAPER losses into ACTUAL losses.

Yes, obviously, any fund invested in shorting Gamestop wants the price to go down.  However, some big funds said they had closed out of Gamestop, so unless they are just lying, the amount of funds invested in shorting Gamestop has gone down.  And anyone buying Gamestop stock now will have less effect on hedge funds but much more effect on people who bought low to sell high. So to simply say Robinhood is doing a favor to hedge funds is too simplistic - anyone buying now is probably losing money, which is also something they might want to avoid. I guess we have that ethics in business thing going on right now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 12:32:41 PM

mind you one of the biggest hedge funds to get squeezed in this entire thing is Melvin Capital- which is run by a guy named Gabe Plotkin. Melvin Capital had to raise $3 billion yesterday just to cover losses related to it's extreme and risky short bet of GameStop.

Where did Melvin raise said money? From another hedge fund called Citadel LLC run by a guy named Ken Griffin and another investment firm called Point72 run by a guy named Steven A Cohen. Plotkin was once Cohen's right hand man and used to work for Cohen at a hedge fund called SAC Capital- a hedge fund that got shut down by the SEC for all kinds of insider trading and market manipulation- Cohen avoided facing prosecution and going to court by willingly dissolving the hedge fund, agreeing not to run another hedge fund for x amount of years and also agreed if he ever got back in that game he wouldn't let other investors in like ever and that he'd use only his own money, and oh yeah also paying I believe almost $1.5 billion to the SEC in fines- the largest ever such fines on Wall Street by a single person- like EVER. Cohen is still worth like $20+ billion and he just bought the New York Mets. Plotkin sure learned from the best.

Oh and speaking of Citadel LLC/Ken Griffin- Griffin also founded a separate company with the name Citadel in it- Citadel Securities LLC. Citadel Securities literally handles all of Robinhoods trades for them....so go figure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 12:33:22 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 12:29:07 PM

could it be that Robinhood was simply trying to protect wouldbe Gamestop investors from getting in deeper

in a stock which was artificially inflated

No.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 28, 2021, 12:33:52 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 28, 2021, 12:29:25 PM

Yes, obviously, any fund invested in shorting Gamestop wants the price to go down.  However, some big funds said they had closed out of Gamestop, so unless they are just lying, the amount of funds invested in shorting Gamestop has gone down.  And anyone buying Gamestop stock now will have less effect on hedge funds but much more effect on people who bought low to sell high. So to simply say Robinhood is doing a favor to hedge funds is too simplistic - anyone buying now is probably losing money, which is also something they might want to avoid. I guess we have that ethics in business thing going on right now.

I do agree with that. Anyone jumping into Gamestop now is playing with fire. 

The good news is that I'm guessing a lot of these redditors who are buying Gamestop aren't exactly liquidating $500K positions to dump it all into pumping up a worthless stock. I'm sure a lot of them are buying one, two, maybe three shares and are going to be taught a moderately expensive--but not financially ruinous--lesson when they're caught holding the bag. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 12:33:56 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 28, 2021, 12:29:25 PM

Yes, obviously, any fund invested in shorting Gamestop wants the price to go down.  However, some big funds said they had closed out of Gamestop, so unless they are just lying, the amount of funds invested in shorting Gamestop has gone down.  And anyone buying Gamestop stock now will have less effect on hedge funds but much more effect on people who bought low to sell high. So to simply say Robinhood is doing a favor to hedge funds is too simplistic - anyone buying now is probably losing money, which is also something they might want to avoid. I guess we have that ethics in business thing going on right now.

Wall Street hedge funds going on TV and lying! NO WAY. They have not closed out of GameStop. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 12:35:09 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 12:33:22 PM

No.

why

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 12:39:15 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 12:35:09 PM

why

Because it was so extremely shorted. And if they did- why the co-ordinated effort to stop people from buying it? You can literally only sell it on apps like Robinhood, TD Ameritrade, and now WeBull. Which would naturally just do what- manipulate the price down.

Robinhood by the way- has all of it's trades handled by Citadel Securities LLC- a sister company of Citadel LLC- the monstrous hedge fund which just piggybacked off of the GameStop reddit run yesterday and then invested billions of dollars into Melvin Capital- one of the largest hedge funds on Wall Street that got burnt by their extreme and risky short bets.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 12:47:38 PM

this is also a very real possibility- and may be what is happening here...

https://twitter.com/matthewstoller/status/1354843367549661187?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 01:02:02 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 12:39:15 PM

Because it was so extremely shorted. And if they did- why the co-ordinated effort to stop people from buying it? You can literally only sell it on apps like Robinhood, TD Ameritrade, and now WeBull. Which would naturally just do what- manipulate the price down.

Robinhood by the way- has all of it's trades handled by Citadel Securities LLC- a sister company of Citadel LLC- the monstrous hedge fund which just piggybacked off of the GameStop reddit run yesterday and then invested billions of dollars into Melvin Capital- one of the largest hedge funds on Wall Street that got burnt by their extreme and risky short bets.

Actually I use TD Ameritrade as my broker and have seen no manipulation of any stock

could it be a simple situation where a hedge fund saw a stock way over valued and decided shorting was a good strategy

be careful here cause the market reacts to the public buying sentiment whatever that may be

unless Gamestop put out fraudulent information this may be entirely above board

can the little guy get hurt from investing in a stock over valued - yes

do big investors short over valued stocks causing them to decrease in price - yes

all legal

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2021, 01:19:46 PM

GameStop stock falls 20%, halted several times after brokers place restrictions on trades (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/28/gamestop-reverses-losses-and-surges-another-30percent-in-the-premarket-to-450-as-mania-continues.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 01:27:04 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 28, 2021, 01:19:46 PM

GameStop stock falls 20%, halted several times after brokers place restrictions on trades (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/28/gamestop-reverses-losses-and-surges-another-30percent-in-the-premarket-to-450-as-mania-continues.html)

as stated earlier this is very common for highly volatile stocks

its not to manipulate the stock but as a cooling off period to protect the investor

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 01:33:52 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 28, 2021, 01:19:46 PM

GameStop stock falls 20%, halted several times after brokers place restrictions on trades (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/28/gamestop-reverses-losses-and-surges-another-30percent-in-the-premarket-to-450-as-mania-continues.html)

Robinhood has roughly 15 million active users. Over half of their uses had GameStop stock. That's at least 7.5 million people.

Well- when you stop those people from buying- and Robinhood wasn't nearly the only trading platform which wouldn't allow users to buy GameStop- and only allow them to sell it- what happens- the price will go down because a lot of people will panic and do what- sell it.

Looks like the co-ordinated effort from Wall Street with Robinhood and other retail trading platforms to manipulate the market and push the stock down worked.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 01:35:15 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 01:27:04 PM

as stated earlier this is very common for highly volatile stocks

its not to manipulate the stock but as a cooling off period to protect the investor

Lol. No. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2021, 01:35:23 PM

Why Gamestop though?  Why was it being (allegedly?) shorted?  Random/strictly a numbers thing or something specific about the company itself (not numbers-related)?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 01:37:39 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 01:02:02 PM

Actually I use TD Ameritrade as my broker and have seen no manipulation of any stock

could it be a simple situation where a hedge fund saw a stock way over valued and decided shorting was a good strategy

be careful here cause the market reacts to the public buying sentiment whatever that may be

unless Gamestop put out fraudulent information this may be entirely above board

can the little guy get hurt from investing in a stock over valued - yes

do big investors short over valued stocks causing them to decrease in price - yes

all legal

refusing to let people on their apps/platform buy it while still allowing and basically openly encouraging people to sell it is the definition of market manipulation.

The stock wasn't overvalued or undervalued- it just was what it was- and it wasn't just one Wall Street hedge fund- it was a cabal of them- and they didn't just short the company- they dangerously, excessively massively shorted the company and tried to run the share price into the dirt just to make a quick buck on their highly risky speculative bet. They lost.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 01:41:34 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2021, 01:35:23 PM

Why Gamestop though?  Why was it being (allegedly?) shorted?  Random/strictly a numbers thing or something specific about the company itself (not numbers-related)?

Nothing alleged about it. It was being shorted. Excessively. It was being shorted more than any stock on the entire market by an order of magnitude. Nothing else was close. It was shorted at 140%. Basically means they borrowed every single share of GameStop stock in existence- 1.4 times. Hard to even wrap your head around that.

They were trying to drive it into the dirt so they could buy the shares back for pennies on the dollar- return the shares they borrowed and pocket huge sums of money. Reddit forum caught onto what they were doing and banded together to squeeze them. Sounding like other hedge funds piggybacked off the redditors and made those losses for the shorts even worse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2021, 01:44:30 PM

But why Gamestop?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 28, 2021, 01:46:46 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2021, 01:44:30 PM

But why Gamestop? 

Because it was a failing company that was still publicly traded

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 01:47:52 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2021, 01:44:30 PM

But why Gamestop? 

Because it had been struggling a bit. Although it had been struggling- it'd been undergoing restructuring and they brought on the founder of Chewy (the billionaire online pet retailer) to help them raise capital and restructure.

These hedge fund assholes think they pick whomever the hell they want whenever the hell they want and f$#k with them and drive them into the dirt. Simply put- they figured it was an easy target and quick way to make money. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 01:50:27 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 01:37:39 PM

refusing to let people on their apps/platform buy it while still allowing and basically openly encouraging people to sell it is the definition of market manipulation.

The stock wasn't overvalued or undervalued- it just was what it was- and it wasn't just one Wall Street hedge fund- it was a cabal of them- and they didn't just short the company- they dangerously, excessively massively shorted the company and tried to run the share price into the dirt just to make a quick buck on their highly risky speculative bet. They lost.

all stocks are overvalued or undervalued so Im not sure how you can say this

the act of shorting is not in itself manipulation any more then buying a stock is

and again a broker limiting activity on a highly volatile stock is very common

so far Ive not seen anything I would consider illegal like fraudulent company info etc

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 01:52:00 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 01:47:52 PM

Because it had been struggling a bit. Although it had been struggling- it'd been undergoing restructuring and they brought on the founder of Chewy (the billionaire online pet retailer) to help them raise capital and restructure.

These hedge fund assholes think they pick whomever the hell they want whenever the hell they want and f$#k with them and drive them into the dirt. Simply put- they figured it was an easy target and quick way to make money.

other then shorting the stock what else did they do that was manipulation

I really dont know 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 01:53:01 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 28, 2021, 01:46:46 PM

Because it was a failing company that was still publicly traded

Not entirely true. It is NOT as simple or cut and dry as you are trying to make it sound. GameStop sales grew in 2020 and their losses in 2020 improved dramatically from 2019- more than halved- they had just brought on the founder of online pet retailer Chewy onto their board to help them restructure- they had just restructured debt and raised capital. This wasn't a business that wasn't just going to disappear overnight. It has a viable business and reason to exist. 

The shorts were literally just trying to f###k with it and drive it into the dirt to make money because they felt like it was an easy target. And they weren't just shorting it. They were EXCESSIVELY and dangerously shorting it. And that's why they just got their asses handed to them. Gotta love it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 01:56:32 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 01:50:27 PM

all stocks are overvalued or undervalued so Im not sure how you can say this

the act of shorting is not in itself manipulation any more then buying a stock is

and again a broker limiting activity on a highly volatile stock is very common

so far Ive not seen anything I would consider illegal like fraudulent company info etc

stocks aren't ovevalued or undervalued- they are valued at whatever the market is willing to pay for them- that is their value- and it changes literally by the second.

When you short 140% of a company- and have minions go on tv on CNBC and trash the company 24/7 - yeah that's manipulation.

A retail broker like Robinhood/TD Ameritrade- banning people from buying a stock while allowing them to sell said stock- yeah- don't think that's happened. Like Ever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 28, 2021, 01:57:47 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 01:53:01 PM

Not entirely true. It is NOT as simple or cut and dry as you are trying to make it sound. GameStop sales grew in 2020 and their losses in 2020 improved dramatically from 2019- more than halved- they had just brought on the founder of online pet retailer Chewy onto their board to help them restructure- they had just restructured debt and raised capital. This wasn't a business that wasn't just going to disappear overnight. It has a viable business and reason to exist.

The shorts were literally just trying to f###k with it and drive it into the dirt to make money because they felt like it was an easy target. And they weren't just shorting it. They were EXCESSIVELY and dangerously shorting it. And that's why they just got their asses handed to them. Gotta love it.

I mean that's why they shorted Gamestop - it wasn't like they hated videogames or something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 02:02:47 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 01:56:32 PM

stocks aren't ovevalued or undervalued- they are valued at whatever the market is willing to pay for them- that is their value- and it changes literally by the second.

When you short 140% of a company- and have minions go on tv on CNBC and trash the company 24/7 - yeah that's manipulation.

A retail broker like Robinhood/TD Ameritrade- banning people from buying a stock while allowing them to sell said stock- yeah- don't think that's happened. Like Ever.

Thats just not true
Stock are backed up by company assets and earning record and potential which has an implicit value attached to it
history of dividend payments scientific breakthroughs etc all help to determine value
what the market is willing to pay does not authenticate value of the company

thats why short selling exists 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 02:03:47 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 28, 2021, 01:57:47 PM

I mean that's why they shorted Gamestop - it wasn't like they hated videogames or something.

GameStop wasn't just going to go zero overnight. It was a struggling company going through restructuring- lots of companies struggle and go through restructuring and don't get shorted at 140%.

This wasn't some typical short bet like the shorts on Tesla where maybe 20-30% was shorted- which was also a struggling company going through restructuring by the way- they were shorting this thing at 140% trying to drive it out of existence. It was dangerous, risky, and excessive. They got caught with their pants down and took it up the ass because of it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 02:06:52 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 02:02:47 PM

Thats just not true
Stock are backed up by company assets and earning record and potential which has an implicit value attached to it
history of dividend payments scientific breakthroughs etc all help to determine value
what the market is willing to pay does not authenticate value of the company

thats why short selling exists

This is false. Stock market isn't tied to reality. At all.

Amazon has never once paid a dividend and they never will. And people still die to get their hands on it.

How many stocks trade at ridiculous x earnings? A LOT.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 02:13:13 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 02:03:47 PM

GameStop wasn't just going to go zero overnight. It was a struggling company going through restructuring- lots of companies struggle and go through restructuring and don't get shorted at 140%.

This wasn't some typical short bet like the shorts on Tesla where maybe 20-30% was shorted- which was also a struggling company going through restructuring by the way- they were shorting this thing at 140% trying to drive it out of existence. It was dangerous, risky, and excessive. They got caught with their pants down and took it up the ass because of it.

Gamestop began the year at a $17 share price and right now is at $235 per share so I dont think their operators are crying in their beer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 02:16:47 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 02:06:52 PM

This is false. Stock market isn't tied to reality. At all.

Amazon has never once paid a dividend and they never will. And people still die to get their hands on it.

How many stocks trade at ridiculous x earnings? A LOT.

your right but a short seller banks on the fact that sooner or later the stock will resort to its actual value

its because some stocks are trading much higher then they should be that keeps hedge funds in business

and its all above board

just like buying an undervalued stock is hoping the price will incrase to its actual value

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 02:19:08 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 02:16:47 PM

your right but a short seller banks on the fact that sooner or later the stock will resort to its actual value

its because some stocks are trading much higher then they should be that keeps hedge funds in business

and its all above board

just like buying an undervalued stock is hoping the price will incrase to its actual value

I don't think you're getting what's happened here. GameStop took off because of the shorts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 02:23:17 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 02:19:08 PM

I don't think you're getting what's happened here. GameStop took off because of the shorts.

no Gamespot took off because the public investors drove the price even higher then the short sellers thought was possible and they had to buy to cover their shorts which contributed to the force driving the price even higher

the initial shorts were wrong but as the price got higher more and more shorts joined in because it was way over valued

again there is just nothing that strike me as illegal here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 03:13:54 PM

https://twitter.com/chamath/status/1354883147523997697?s=20

https://twitter.com/chamath/status/1354883148513910786?s=20

https://twitter.com/chamath/status/1354883149503688706?s=20

https://twitter.com/chamath/status/1354883150489423875?s=20

https://twitter.com/chamath/status/1354883151395360773?s=20

https://twitter.com/chamath/status/1354883152490061824?s=20

https://twitter.com/chamath/status/1354883155279237123?s=20

https://twitter.com/chamath/status/1354883158253084675?s=20

https://twitter.com/chamath/status/1354883159603597312?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 28, 2021, 03:25:54 PM

I just hope the really smart guys I pay to manage my 401K holdings did the right thing and made me some money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 03:52:16 PM

https://twitter.com/GerberKawasaki/status/1354885090883432449?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 03:52:51 PM

https://twitter.com/CGasparino/status/1354892841550553096?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 03:57:35 PM

Wall Street hedge fund asshole shorts tried crushing Tesla too buy the way- not to this extreme degree where it's 140%+ short- but they got wiped out- they lost $40 billion in 2020 alone shorting Tesla. 

Tesla even started selling extremely short red shorts (the clothing) for $69.420 on it's website. Needless to say, Elon Musk doesn't like these people....


https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1354890601649610753?s=20

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1354891972406865922?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 04:05:09 PM

co-founder of the multi-billion dollar streaming platform Twitch....

https://twitter.com/justinkan/status/1354861575916515330?s=20

https://twitter.com/justinkan/status/1354853920762253315?s=20

https://twitter.com/justinkan/status/1354859093253480458?s=20

https://twitter.com/justinkan/status/1354859094184628228?s=20

https://twitter.com/justinkan/status/1354859095006736384?s=20

https://twitter.com/justinkan/status/1354859095929446400?s=20

https://twitter.com/justinkan/status/1354861746897346560?s=20

https://twitter.com/justinkan/status/1354864682662846469?s=20

https://twitter.com/tyler/status/1354803431295213578?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 04:20:31 PM

UNREAL. Robinhood is toast.

https://twitter.com/themaxburns/status/1354872948226732046?s=20

https://twitter.com/themaxburns/status/1354873559663960066?s=20

https://twitter.com/themaxburns/status/1354874931092348933?s=20

https://twitter.com/themaxburns/status/1354902045552214017?s=20

https://twitter.com/themaxburns/status/1354900820161155077?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 28, 2021, 04:42:25 PM

fun times

might as well blame Trump

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2021, 04:46:18 PM

I checked this morning and trading on GME was halted at Schwab, but a bit later it was open to buy and sell.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 28, 2021, 04:48:24 PM

in other news.............. I think I remember a short discussion regarding melting cheese

https://www.seriouseats.com/2015/08/the-science-of-melting-cheese.html?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Features_20210128_Thursday_MeltedCheeseScience&utm_content=Features_20210128_Thursday_MeltedCheeseScience+CID_f043f2e639f50e22d8c819d6607f5fe6&utm_source=Email%20campaign&utm_term=Get%20the%20full%20story (https://www.seriouseats.com/2015/08/the-science-of-melting-cheese.html?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Features_20210128_Thursday_MeltedCheeseScience&utm_content=Features_20210128_Thursday_MeltedCheeseScience+CID_f043f2e639f50e22d8c819d6607f5fe6&utm_source=Email campaign&utm_term=Get the full story)

One of the most common ways to help cheese melt smoothly is to add starch: this is a process that works in sauces like mornay, or nacho cheese sauce. Starches and other thickeners will physically impede fat molecules from joining up into larger droplets, as well as making the water phase of the cheese more viscous. All of this helps to prevent fat from coalescing and breaking out.

Adding acid, like the tartaric acid you'll find in a tart white wine, can also help prevent the cheese's casein proteins from clumping together and turning stringy, like in a classic fondue (our recipe uses a touch of starch for further protection from breaking).

But when even that's not enough, it's time for the big guns: more liquid. This is where Kenji's genius steaming technique comes into play. Steaming a cheese doesn't just heat it more evenly and gently than, say, a toaster oven, but it reintroduces water that's otherwise lost in more traditional heating methods. You can even go the whole nine yards and stir in a combination of milk or cream and starch like Gold Medal Wondra Flour—this method's perfect for topping burgers or filling your next grilled cheese. Check out the full story or go one step farther and learn how to make American-style cheese slices from scratch out of nearly any cheese! (Hint: it involves a food processor, gelatin, and a whole lot of goo).

The Super Melters: Process Cheese
Process cheeses, including "American" cheese, are cheese products designed to be extremely meltable and nearly impossible to break. This is accomplished by starting with real cheese (usually a young cheddar-style), and blending it with extra milk (for the added water), extra milk protein micelles (for the strong protein structure), and some form of chemical salt that helps prevent proteins from tightening. Because American-style cheeses have so much excess liquid added to them, they have extremely low melting points, making for extra-gooey grilled cheese sandwiches or cheeseburgers. This meltability, of course, comes at the cost of less intense flavor.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 04:53:58 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 28, 2021, 04:42:25 PM

fun times

might as well blame Trump

CNN already did. True story lmao.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2021, 04:59:53 PM

Most polymers show a phase behavior that is different from water.  Cheese is a mixture of biopolymers.  A typical polymer, say polystyrene, will exhibit three phases, glassy, viscous or rubbery, and melted.  For some, the melt temperature is higher than the decomposition temperature.  You can get cheese into its rubbery viscous state, usually, but it's not a true melted state unless you add a lot of stuff.

Of course, in cooking, we don't distinguish between viscous rubbery and melted.  The stuff appeared to liquify so we're happy.


The oddity of the glass transition is that it is time dependent.  But that's a longer story.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 06:39:11 PM

hollleeeee shittttt.....

https://twitter.com/biancoresearch/status/1354893124410216449?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 28, 2021, 07:37:49 PM

Well this is wild

https://twitter.com/themaxburns/status/1354872948226732046?s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2021, 07:47:01 PM

Sounds like a good reason for me to stay with Schwab, and their zero commission rates on most trades.

The first stock I ever bought had a $70 commission.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 08:00:16 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 28, 2021, 07:47:01 PM

Sounds like a good reason for me to stay with Schwab, and their zero commission rates on most trades.

The first stock I ever bought had a $70 commission.

Robinhood might not even exist in a couple months anyway lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 08:11:47 PM

GM announces they'll only sell electric cars starting 2035. Only 5 years behind China's 2030 EV plan- and 27 years behind Tesla. Lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on January 28, 2021, 08:46:04 PM

I've been denouncing Robinhood for a long time, though entirely for other reasons.  This sideshow and it really is a market sideshow is a comic tragedy.    

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 28, 2021, 10:41:23 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on January 28, 2021, 08:46:04 PM

I've been denouncing Robinhood for a long time, though entirely for other reasons.  This sideshow and it really is a market sideshow is a comic tragedy.   

That's the one that game-ified investing, right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 28, 2021, 10:42:23 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 06:39:11 PM

hollleeeee shittttt.....

https://twitter.com/biancoresearch/status/1354893124410216449?s=20

One of the comedies of capitalism is that society dislikes volatility enough to not let people lose as the system dictates they should. (I imagine in the end everyone kinda loses, but that's neither here nor there)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 11:16:21 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 28, 2021, 07:47:01 PM

Sounds like a good reason for me to stay with Schwab, and their zero commission rates on most trades.

The first stock I ever bought had a $70 commission.

Schwab was supposed to buy TD Ameritrade last August but I have not noticed if they did

In the meantime I still have the same Ameritrade web site and log in

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on January 29, 2021, 01:47:45 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 11:16:21 PM

Schwab was supposed to buy TD Ameritrade last August but I have not noticed if they did

In the meantime I still have the same Ameritrade web site and log in

Heh.  This is funny for my own professional reasons.  I'm very deep in the biz, and yes Schwab did acquire TDA. (no I don't work for either, and I am employed by a BD, and I myself have accounts at these types of firms).   They are in the very early stages of integration.    I can say, based on communication from Schwab in the fall,  those of us on the product side can chill out, the platforms aren't yet impacted.  TDA customers will still have the same experience (for now) and vice versa.  Having worked through these with many of the large warehouses merging over the years (AG>Wachovia>Wells) (SalmonSmithBarney>Citigroup>Morgan Stanley>MSSB now folding in E-trade))(etc etc.) these take a lot of time (12mos+).   Most of the grief is operational, back office, technology, and impacting RIAs, Correspondent BDs, and what are called third-party administrators that use the platforms.

 From a retail investor standpoint, I highly doubt you're going to have a negative experience.  I will be most interested in how they treat the TDA brand, and how that impacts the larger, in terms of size, contingent of TDA users (RIAs, etc.).    There's a lot of consternation in the advice market about the future of RIA support/tiers/service levels for those independent RIAs who custody assets at Schwab and or TDA.  Retail/self-directed folks should not experience, what I would consider, disruption.  Massive amounts of product choice, fairly impressive tech offerings and support.  Same, no commission trades (with rare exceptions which exist today on certain products).   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on January 29, 2021, 02:01:05 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 28, 2021, 10:41:23 PM

That's the one that game-ified investing, right?

there's some layer of truth to this, but no, they aren't the first.   There are some DraftKing type similarities though.    I object to them for other reasons, you're not getting 'best execution', they were finally fined big time for this last month (additional problems client trade routing, misleading, disclosure issues, etc.).   I figured this out about six moths into their existence.  Their product offering depth is pathetic, relative to some of the aforementioned shops.    Sad.

translation: little guys, placing little trades, or even larger trades, are getting crap service when you trade.   But hey, free trading!   The 'features' and 'touts' to trade I see on their app and experience make me sick as someone involved in this biz from a legal/compliance/operational/relationship standpoint.   If some of this crap was even attempted by some of the more refined outlets in the market, they'd be laughed at, at best, and probably fined/sanctioned or both.   I'd love to examine them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 02:11:52 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 28, 2021, 10:42:23 PM

One of the comedies of capitalism is that society dislikes volatility enough to not let people lose as the system dictates they should. (I imagine in the end everyone kinda loses, but that's neither here nor there)

It's not a comedy, it's a tragedy- and it's not "society" that dislikes volatility- it's the elite on Wall Street who do risky, highly volatile shit in order to make a quick, easy dollar for basically doing literally nothing at all of value- all they do is play games with money- they produce no actual product or anything of value- and every single time it blows up in their face they want hand outs or bailouts. They are the single most worthless part of the economy who do nothing but leech and should die.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 02:49:25 AM

Discord app deletes the Wall Street Bets chatroom/server for "hate speech".

Facebook deletes a Robinhood investment group that had 157,000 users. No reason given by the lizardman f##kface Zuckerberg. 

Google deletes 100,000 one star ratings on Robinhood on it's App Store. 

Unreal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 29, 2021, 06:23:51 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 02:49:25 AM

Discord app deletes the Wall Street Bets chatroom/server for "hate speech".

Facebook deletes a Robinhood investment group that had 157,000 users. No reason given by the lizardman f##kface Zuckerberg.

Google deletes 100,000 one star ratings on Robinhood on it's App Store.

Unreal.

It really is disgusting.   It is basically financial censorship.  Small, individual investors are being forced to stop winning so the big hedge funds can stop losing.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 29, 2021, 07:38:07 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/fROYhCe.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 09:20:27 AM

It's not "Wall Street".  It is some hedge funds, and perhaps a brokerage company or three.

I made a lot of money yesterday on the market.  Probably will lose today.

How Wall Street thinks the Reddit-fueled GameStop trade will unravel (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/28/this-is-how-wall-street-thinks-the-reddit-fueled-gamestop-trade-unravels-.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 29, 2021, 09:22:47 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 02:11:52 AM

It's not a comedy, it's a tragedy- and it's not "society" that dislikes volatility- it's the elite on Wall Street who do risky, highly volatile shit in order to make a quick, easy dollar for basically doing literally nothing at all of value- all they do is play games with money- they produce no actual product or anything of value- and every single time it blows up in their face they want hand outs or bailouts. They are the single most worthless part of the economy who do nothing but leech and should die.

I agree with some of this, less so with other parts. I’d probably not wish anyone to die. But yeah, society dislikes volatility. People point to the stock market and make political decisions based on “the economy”

They rarely say, “all that is made up and I don’t care.” Maybe the should. I mean, this whole thing is people spending money in essence to eff with rich people. Which is funny, though the end result is creating value out of nothing, which will ultimately not exist soon enough.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 09:43:09 AM

“20 years ago I started Citron with the intention of protecting the individual against Wall Street, against the frauds and the stock promotions were just all over,” Left said in a YouTube video on Friday. “Where we started Citron was supposed to be against the establishment, we’ve actually become the establishment.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 29, 2021, 09:46:34 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 09:20:27 AM

I made a lot of money yesterday on the market.  Probably will lose today.

How Wall Street thinks the Reddit-fueled GameStop trade will unravel (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/28/this-is-how-wall-street-thinks-the-reddit-fueled-gamestop-trade-unravels-.html)

Lot of interseting takes here

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/forum/anything-else/2021/01/120892/recent-stock-market-happenings

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 09:51:39 AM

A more general lesson perhaps is how social media and broad communication can enable a larger group to impact a small "professional" group, in this case to their loss.

We know how SM enables protests to form.  It's otherwise a lot of work to organize a lot of folks to do something they might be disposed to doing but are not coordinated.

It'll be interesting to see how the SEC responds.  We may see implementation of market stops if a stock moves too far in a short period of time, which we already have for the larger market.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 29, 2021, 10:39:09 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 09:51:39 AM

A more general lesson perhaps is how social media and broad communication can enable a larger group to impact a small "professional" group, in this case to their loss.

On a tangent, this is something I think about a lot - how unnatural it is for a person to communicate directly with so many people.
Think about physically talking to a group...what's the most you could reach - within earshot?  The Greeks designed their amphitheaters to enable sound to carry.  The Aztec or Olmecs apparently had a valley in which they'd gather to hear the leader/god/whatever, whose voice could reach over 100,000 pairs of ears.

But today, we have famous people online directly communicating with tens of millions of people.  Maybe an idea isn't supposed to reach that many.  Maybe one mind shouldn't be influencing that many others.  Our brains haven't had time to adjust to the gradual, eventual lead-up to something like that - it's happened in 25 years of the interwebs.  One generation. 

Consider that - what's the absolute most people you could directly communicate with in 1995 (or pre-widespread use of the internet)?  100,000 in a stadium with a mic?  We've doubled that about 9 times in 25 years.  It's not okay.


*All of the top TV audiences of all-time are sporting events or tragedies - not a person sharing their opinions about this and that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on January 29, 2021, 10:53:36 AM

If management at GameStop was smart, they would be looking at a sizable issuance of stock at the top of the bubble, and use the capital to improve the company. 

A fight between James J. Hill and Edward H. Harriman over control of the Northern Pacific and Chicago, Burlington, and Quincy Railroads caused something similar to happen to NP stock as GameStop.  See the Panic of 1901.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2021, 11:18:53 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 29, 2021, 10:39:09 AM

Consider that - what's the absolute most people you could directly communicate with in 1995 (or pre-widespread use of the internet)?  100,000 in a stadium with a mic?  We've doubled that about 9 times in 25 years.  It's not okay.


*All of the top TV audiences of all-time are sporting events or tragedies - not a person sharing their opinions about this and that

I'd guess a presidential state of the union address on the radio back in John Boy Walton's time (Great depression & WWII) would reach the same number and percentage of the population

one person sharing his opinion

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2021, 11:20:48 AM

Yes television and radio before it, have enabled people to reach massive audiences, for generations.

But now there are certainly MORE people capable of doing so.  A lot more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 11:25:40 AM

Yes, it's the change that regular Joe's can connect with millions, not just "leaders".

I find Hitler's rise to power to be fascinating as an example of how one person not known for being much of anything could motivate millions of people.  That was fortunately an unusual situation, there are other examples in history of something similar of course.

Gamestop could issue stock but that announcement would of course change the market rapidly.  GME was up 66% last I checked, today.  Anyone still short is getting hammered.  I bet options are very pricey, if they are traded.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 29, 2021, 11:34:23 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 29, 2021, 11:20:48 AM

Yes television and radio before it, have enabled people to reach massive audiences, for generations.

But now there are certainly MORE people capable of doing so.  A lot more.

And I highlight, again, that this creates a situation where because there are so many voices out there, people can create their own reality by picking the ones they want to listen to. The ensconce themselves in an echo chamber of confirmation bias, to the point where I may live in a completely different reality than my neighbor. 

IMHO that's new in human life. 

30 years ago, we had three main networks all basically running the same narrative on the nightly news. They might have been right or they might have been wrong, but the entire nation lived in the same narrative, with the same facts, and had to deal with each other within one reality. 

Now one side lives in one reality, and is never exposed to the other. While the other side lives in a completely different reality, and is never exposed to the other. When the two come into conflict, literally they cannot even discuss the differences because the bridge is too far between them.

I don't know how this ends... But I can't think it's going to be good. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 29, 2021, 11:37:23 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on January 29, 2021, 11:34:23 AM

And I highlight, again, that this creates a situation where because there are so many voices out there, people can create their own reality by picking the ones they want to listen to. The ensconce themselves in an echo chamber of confirmation bias, to the point where I may live in a completely different reality than my neighbor.

IMHO that's new in human life.

30 years ago, we had three main networks all basically running the same narrative on the nightly news. They might have been right or they might have been wrong, but the entire nation lived in the same narrative, with the same facts, and had to deal with each other within one reality.

Now one side lives in one reality, and is never exposed to the other. While the other side lives in a completely different reality, and is never exposed to the other. When the two come into conflict, literally they cannot even discuss the differences because the bridge is too far between them.

I don't know how this ends... But I can't think it's going to be good.

This.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 11:44:14 AM

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/suck-it-wall-street

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on January 29, 2021, 11:44:59 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 09:51:39 AM

It'll be interesting to see how the SEC responds.  We may see implementation of market stops if a stock moves too far in a short period of time, which we already have for the larger market.

That would be a poor move on the SECs part.

It would only serve the interests of the hedge funds that are causing problems in the first place.

Which would show that the SEC serves the interests of the wealthy, and the entire system really is rigged.

The SEC needs to cap short selling.  GME was shorted 140%.  It's ridiculous.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 11:48:21 AM

We already have rules on the overall markets.

Under market rules (https://www.nyse.com/network/article/nyse-increases-resiliancy-during-extreme-volatility), circuit breakers kick in at three thresholds:

• Level 1: A drop of 7% from the prior day's closing price of the S&P 500 triggers a 15-minute trading halt. Trading is not halted if the drop occurs at or after 3:25 p.m. ET.
• Level 2: A drop of 13% triggers a 15-minute halt. Trading is not halted if the drop occurs at or after 3:25 p.m. ET.
• Level 3: A drop of 20% triggers a halt for the rest of the trading day, and trading resumes the following day.

These automatic trading halts are aimed at preventing the market from entering a free fall, and Monday's halt (https://www.npr.org/2020/03/09/813619387/dow-dives-1-900-points-nyse-halts-trading-as-stock-indexes-plummet) did its job, with the major indexes coming off their lows once trading resumed. However, the indexes fell again later in the day, with the Dow Jones Industrial Average down more than 2,000 points, or nearly 8%.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2021, 11:56:05 AM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on January 29, 2021, 11:44:59 AM

That would be a poor move on the SECs part.

It would only serve the interests of the hedge funds that are causing problems in the first place.

Which would show that the SEC serves the interests of the wealthy, and the entire system really is rigged.

The SEC needs to cap short selling.  GME was shorted 140%.  It's ridiculous.

this is exactly what I expect

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 11:57:33 AM

I would be OK with a halt in trading a single stock if the price moves by over say 30% in a day, something like the exchange halts.

Companies can do this themselves of course.  It happens before some major announcement.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 11:59:26 AM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on January 29, 2021, 11:44:59 AM

That would be a poor move on the SECs part.

It would only serve the interests of the hedge funds that are causing problems in the first place.

Which would show that the SEC serves the interests of the wealthy, and the entire system really is rigged.

The SEC needs to cap short selling.  GME was shorted 140%.  It's ridiculous.

Great point. Why the EFF does this keep getting lost in the discussion? Wall Street hedge funds broke the f###ng law and shorted stocks that don't even exist! Naked shorting is suppose to be illegal!

SEC needs to actually ya know, do it's job. They should be investigating these hedge funds and all of their market manipulation and naked shorting. They won't though. Why? That entire sector of the government has been captured by Wall Street.

No sector of society is as powerful as Wall Street. They own the politicians on both sides of the aisles.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 12:05:27 PM

I agree whoever shorted past 100% should be "investigated".  I don't know the rules on that.

stocks - How can GameStop be short 140% of float? - Personal Finance & Money Stack Exchange (https://money.stackexchange.com/questions/135446/how-can-gamestop-be-short-140-of-float)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 12:09:21 PM

GameStop and AMC stocks soar on another day of wild trading in heavily shorted companies - MarketWatch (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/gamestop-and-amc-stocks-soar-on-another-day-of-wild-trading-in-heavily-shorted-companies-11611775450)

It appears the 140% figure is artificial.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 12:11:55 PM

Glad that people are finally waking up. At the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic, hedge fund billionaire asswipe Bill Ackman went on CNBC and told millions of their viewers the world is ending, said everything is going to zero, hell is coming- we're all going to die- all while shorting the hell out of the market- and made billions in the process- in a matter of a week. Not a damn thing happened to him. These hedge fund dickwads go on CNBC and Bloomberg 24/7 and do this kind of shit constantly- and nothing happens to them. Ever. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 12:14:30 PM

How Bill Ackman Turned $27 Million Into $2.6 Billion During the Coronavirus Crisis | Barron's (https://www.barrons.com/articles/how-bill-ackman-turned-27-million-into-2-6-billion-during-the-coronavirus-crisis-51585147940)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 12:16:18 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 12:09:21 PM

GameStop and AMC stocks soar on another day of wild trading in heavily shorted companies - MarketWatch (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/gamestop-and-amc-stocks-soar-on-another-day-of-wild-trading-in-heavily-shorted-companies-11611775450)

It appears the 140% figure is artificial.

What? No, it's not. The hedge funds shorted more shares than actually exist. That's how you get to 140%. They borrowed all that shares that actually exist 1.4 times. This is suppose to be illegal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 12:19:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 12:14:30 PM

How Bill Ackman Turned $27 Million Into $2.6 Billion During the Coronavirus Crisis | Barron's (https://www.barrons.com/articles/how-bill-ackman-turned-27-million-into-2-6-billion-during-the-coronavirus-crisis-51585147940)

How? The asshole literally went on TV and told millions of viewers they were literally all going to die and the world is over. He said hey I'm the smartest guy in the room- listen to me- you're all going to die- hell is coming- the world is over- all while he was shorting the hell out of everything. He deliberately tried to incite panic selling- full well knowing he was banking on that happening. And what do you think happened? It worked. The guy should've been prosecuted and fined by the SEC. NOTHING happened to him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 12:24:20 PM

The float is the number of shares actually available for trading. Float is calculated by subtracting closely held shares -- owned by insiders, employees, the company's Employee Stock Ownership Plan or other major long-term shareholders -- from the total shares outstanding. At the right price, of course, the closely held shares may start to float. Funny how that works.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 29, 2021, 12:25:44 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 29, 2021, 11:18:53 AM

I'd guess a presidential state of the union address on the radio back in John Boy Walton's time (Great depression & WWII) would reach the same number and percentage of the population

one person sharing his opinion

Okay, but a presidential address was (hopefully) to be informative - keeping people abreast of things, right?  And that person was elected and (again, hopefully) earned their way to that position.

I guess walking that fine line between being cool for the teens, sexy for the men, yet safe for families/kids is some type of earned credit (pop stars with tens of millions of followers).  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 29, 2021, 12:28:56 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on January 29, 2021, 11:34:23 AM

I don't know how this ends... But I can't think it's going to be good.

Call it an infringement on our rights, but removing the $$$ from the news is it.  
No ads during the news and no viewer figures released.  

The cost of having a channel do the news is a 30-minute block of no-revenue programming and not knowing if you have the most viewers or the fewest.  
The 24-hour "news" channels will be reassigned for what they are:  fear-mongering crap.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 12:33:54 PM

24 hour cable news are the worst. I blame it for a lot of the problems we have.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 01:00:18 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 12:33:54 PM

24 hour cable news are the worst. I blame it for a lot of the problems we have.

yep and whats even more horrific are the scars on your arms from being chained to your chair making you watch it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 29, 2021, 01:12:14 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 29, 2021, 12:28:56 PM

Call it an infringement on our rights, but removing the $$$ from the news is it. 
No ads during the news and no viewer figures released. 

The cost of having a channel do the news is a 30-minute block of no-revenue programming and not knowing if you have the most viewers or the fewest. 
The 24-hour "news" channels will be reassigned for what they are:  fear-mongering crap.

Outside of the free speech issues here, I'm not sure this will do it, because...

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 12:33:54 PM

24 hour cable news are the worst. I blame it for a lot of the problems we have.

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 01:00:18 PM

yep and whats even more horrific are the scars on your arms from being chained to your chair making you watch it

The bigger issue isn't even the 24-hour news... It's the amplification and spread of misinformation/disinformation via social media. 

The thing to remember is most people don't watch or read the news. Most people don't even read news items beyond a headline.

It's how things spread. There was a study on sharing of stories via social media and people shared stories with salacious headlines without even clicking the headline. They "like" or "retweet" things without even knowing what's underneath the headline. 

And then you have memes. Most social media understanding of the political/news world is spread by sharing of memes, which by definition cannot contain the level of detail needed to understand a complex issue. 

Understanding is hard. Clicking "share" is easy. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2021, 01:16:24 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 01:00:18 PM

yep and whats even more horrific are the scars on your arms from being chained to your chair making you watch it

You're correct, nobody's forcing anyone to watch these propaganda outlets.  People watch them because they WANT to watch them, because...

Quote from: bwarbiany on January 29, 2021, 01:12:14 PM

... There was a study on sharing of stories via social media and people shared stories with salacious headlines without even clicking the headline. They "like" or "retweet" things without even knowing what's underneath the headline.

And then you have memes. Most social media understanding of the political/news world is spread by sharing of memes, which by definition cannot contain the level of detail needed to understand a complex issue.

Understanding is hard. Clicking "share" is easy.

...they only want to see, hear, and read things within their own echo chambers.  Watching a cable news propaganda outlet is no different than reading the echo chamber within your circle of friends on social media.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 01:34:59 PM

Ive been hurt many times in my life

Broke my little finger trying to catch a football

sprained my ankle many times

but one thig that has never hurt me is hearing some ones opinion

on something

yes we live in a world where some ones opinion can be spread far and wide

so what you big babies

if you dont agree with that opinion one of the solutions should never be used is to cancel that opinion from being heard

so many snowflakes out there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 29, 2021, 01:47:58 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 01:34:59 PM

Ive been hurt many times in my life

Broke my little finger trying to catch a football

sprained my ankle many times

but one thig that has never hurt me is hearing some ones opinion

on something

yes we live in a world where some ones opinion can be spread far and wide

so what you big babies

if you dont agree with that opinion one of the solutions should never be used is to cancel that opinion from being heard

so many snowflakes out there

You're mistaking a discussion about what his happening with a discussion about "what must be done" about it. 

Censorship and cancel culture is not, IMHO, the answer ANYONE should be looking at. Because who decides what gets censored or canceled? OAM? I'm not on board with that lol!

What I'm saying is that we've built an edifice that is incompatible with our brains' ability to handle it, and it's causing problems. 

My *hope* is that the generations who grow up in this environment figure out coping mechanisms to handle it. My *fear* is that humanity is just too tribal, and that we'll splinter as a society because we can't handle it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 29, 2021, 01:49:23 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 01:00:18 PM

yep and whats even more horrific are the scars on your arms from being chained to your chair making you watch it

They're explicitly designed to keep you watching, just as the social media websites are.  This is known.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 01:51:01 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on January 29, 2021, 01:47:58 PM

Censorship and cancel culture is not, IMHO, the answer ANYONE should be looking at. Because who decides what gets censored or canceled? OAM? I'm not on board with that lol!

Amen. Censorship is never the answer. 

I may disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 01:52:37 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on January 29, 2021, 01:47:58 PM

You're mistaking a discussion about what his happening with a discussion about "what must be done" about it.

Censorship and cancel culture is not, IMHO, the answer ANYONE should be looking at. Because who decides what gets censored or canceled? OAM? I'm not on board with that lol!

What I'm saying is that we've built an edifice that is incompatible with our brains' ability to handle it, and it's causing problems.

My *hope* is that the generations who grow up in this environment figure out coping mechanisms to handle it. My *fear* is that humanity is just too tribal, and that we'll splinter as a society because we can't handle it.

my brain is just fine no change is needed 

are there folks out there who cant cope with adverse opinions - yes

but there will always be those folks

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 01:54:56 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 29, 2021, 01:49:23 PM

They're explicitly designed to keep you watching, just as the social media websites are.  This is known.

so your answer is to protect the masses from any speech you deem harmful to them - is that it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 01:58:23 PM

OAM to get a better idea where you are coming from what media outlets would you shut down for the benefit of the public

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 02:03:28 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 29, 2021, 01:49:23 PM

They're explicitly designed to keep you watching, just as the social media websites are.  This is known.

24/7 cable news has millions upon millions of viewers. And it's designed to attract more and more viewers and gin up fear and anxiety- not make people really think or inform them. And they always for the most part just have on hack after hack- and whenever they get interviews with politicians they never press them.

Fox averages like 3.7 million viewers, CNN like 2.5 million, and MSNBC has 1 million. And all have millions of subscribers to their YouTube channels. And all of their websites have millions upon millions of hits daily. 

They exist only to entertain, lie to, and frighten people. Most of it is absolutely awful. I mean for christ sake MSNBC just went on a 4 year evidence free based conspiracy theory about Russia. Before that Fox News went on a several year run on Obama doesn't have a birth certificate. And they all are always for war and pro military industrial complex. They hardly even let dissenting voices on anymore. Actual investigative reporters like Glenn Greenwald and Jeremy Scahill were on MSNBC all the time. They used to go on and slam Obama admin for it's drone wars and expansion of the security state- and were still allowed on although maybe less frequently- but as soon as they ridiculed Hillary Clinton and the DNC about their evidence free based Russia conspiracies- they were basically banned from going on MSNBC. 

It's basically all nothing more than propaganda and state TV. They are always pro war, pro security state. I mean for christ sake the ex-head of the CIA- John Brennan works for MSNBC and the ex-head of the Director of National Intelligence- James Clapper- a man who f###ing committed perjury under oath to congress- works for CNN now. This is absolutely horrific, unconscionable, and criminal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 02:09:22 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 02:03:28 PM

24/7 cable news has millions upon millions of viewers. And it's designed to attract more and more viewers and gin up fear and anxiety- not make people really think or inform them. And they always for the most part just have on hack after hack- and whenever they get interviews with politicians they never press them.

Fox averages like 3.7 million viewers, CNN like 2.5 million, and MSNBC has 1 million. And all have millions of subscribers to their YouTube channels. And all of their websites have millions upon millions of hits daily.

They exist only to entertain, lie to, and frighten people. Most of it is absolutely awful. I mean for christ sake MSNBC just went on a 4 year evidence free based conspiracy theory about Russia. Before that Fox News went on a several year run on Obama doesn't have a birth certificate. And they all are always for war and pro military industrial complex. They hardly even let dissenting voices on anymore. Actual investigative reporters like Glenn Greenwald and Jeremy Scahill were on MSNBC all the time. They used to go on and slam Obama admin for it's drone wars and expansion of the security state- and were still allowed on although maybe less frequently- but as soon as they ridiculed Hillary Clinton and the DNC about their evidence free based Russia conspiracies- they were basically banned from going on MSNBC.

It's basically all nothing more than propaganda and state TV. They are always pro war, pro security state. I mean for christ sake the ex-head of the CIA- John Brennan works for MSNBC and the ex-head of the Director of National Intelligence- James Clapper- a man who f###ing committed perjury under oath to congress- works for CNN now. This is absolutely horrific, unconscionable, and criminal.

I agree with you for the most part but Fox News didnt come anywhere close to pushing the birth cert theory as CNN did the Russian hoax

I would also add to your list NBC, CBS and ABC

There is no news anymore

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2021, 02:14:30 PM

misinformation/disinformation

all of them

and all forms of media

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 02:18:48 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 29, 2021, 02:14:30 PM

misinformation/disinformation

all of them

and all forms of media

The corporate/state media - it's always been this way. Internet has finally just allowed people to expose it.  Which is why they are crying to censor the internet. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 29, 2021, 02:20:52 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 29, 2021, 02:14:30 PM

misinformation/disinformation

all of them

and all forms of media

Except for this place because we are the salt of the earth and the light of the world and are incapable of fabricating a story

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 02:21:37 PM

Naked short-selling Hedgie assholes are down $20 billion on GameStop this month alone. JEEBUS.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/29/gamestop-short-sellers-are-still-not-surrendering-despite-nearly-20-billion-in-losses-this-year.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 02:22:32 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 02:18:48 PM

The corporate/state media - it's always been this way. Internet has finally just allowed people to expose it.  Which is why they are crying to censor the internet.

People in general are not for censoring the Internet of opinions

Expressing our opinions is protected by the Constitution

Its only special interests that want to censor certain opinions from the internet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 29, 2021, 02:25:06 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 01:52:37 PM

my brain is just fine no change is needed

are there folks out there who cant cope with adverse opinions - yes

but there will always be those folks

Respectfully, 320, I don't think you're fully getting the point that I'm making. 

As the old saying goes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but they are NOT entitled to their own facts. 

We all know that yellow and blue make green, right? 

Well, you have one group of people who, through the way they were raised, through their social circles, through their carefully-curated news sources and social media, have constructed a filter that they wear over their eyes that only allow them to see yellow, and blocks all blue. This isn't a pair of glasses they can easily take off, it's something that has been ingrained to be a part of their core identity--it informs them on everything they see in the world and shows the yellow and hides the blue. 

Then, you have another group of people who, through the way they were raised, through their social circles, through their carefully-curated news sources and social media, have constructed a filter that they wear over their eyes that only allow them to see blue, and blocks all yellow. Again, this isn't a pair of glasses they can easily take off, it's something that has been ingrained to be a part of their core identity--it informs them on everything they see in the world and shows the blue and hides the yellow. 

Now, they're brought together and faced with identifying the color of a bundle of broccoli. The yellow filters all say it's yellow and the blue filters all say it's blue. They're fundamentally incapable of seeing that it's green, and further they can't even understand that the opposite group doesn't see what they see. "There must be something defective in the other group", they exclaim, without realizing that they're just as guilty. 

These aren't opinions. To each group, seeing the world in yellow or blue is fact, not opinion. That is the reality under which they live, which they have constructed around themselves. 

In America (heck, in the entire world), we need to be a society. There are aspect of society that require working together, and require agreement on certain basic facts. They require both sides to exist in the same reality. 

Sadly, today the two sides exist in very different, and mutually exclusive, realities. Therefore they are INCAPABLE of working together because they can't agree on the most fundamental basics of the world that they're looking at. 

That's my worry. We can't have a society if we don't live in the same reality, and I see no way to get people back into a single--right or wrong--reality. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 02:25:13 PM

I would be kinda screwed if they censored the internet. I don't even really watch MSNBC, Fox, or CNN anymore. Only when I feel like a laugh, I do. I have to admit though- from time to time- it's incredibly rare- they do have a good segment here or there- but most of the time it's completely by accident- usually when they invite someone on who says something the hosts didn't think that guest would say and then the hosts act all dumbfounded and try to push back but then just wind up looking like the morons and sell-outs that they are.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 29, 2021, 02:29:14 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 02:21:37 PM

Naked short-selling Hedgie assholes are down $20 billion on GameStop this month alone. JEEBUS.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/29/gamestop-short-sellers-are-still-not-surrendering-despite-nearly-20-billion-in-losses-this-year.html

My question for the GME / AMC crowd is what is their endgame?

Had I gotten wind of this in December, and rolled in with $500 or $1000 when the stock was under $10/share, my thought would be to ride the wave up to and including the moment I thought it might crest, and then GTFO.

But I see people that I swear are talking about riding this thing the whole way down just to stick it to the man. Probably a bunch of them that didn't buy in an <$10 prices, but at >$100 prices. And some of them are talking about this like holding for the long term, despite the losses, is valiant...

I don't get it. They hammered the hedge funds. Shouldn't they be getting out now to save themselves?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 02:34:51 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on January 29, 2021, 02:29:14 PM

My question for the GME / AMC crowd is what is their endgame?

Had I gotten wind of this in December, and rolled in with $500 or $1000 when the stock was under $10/share, my thought would be to ride the wave up to and including the moment I thought it might crest, and then GTFO.

But I see people that I swear are talking about riding this thing the whole way down just to stick it to the man. Probably a bunch of them that didn't buy in an <$10 prices, but at >$100 prices. And some of them are talking about this like holding for the long term, despite the losses, is valiant...

I don't get it. They hammered the hedge funds. Shouldn't they be getting out now to save themselves?

No. The hedge funds are still shorting this thing. Some are even doubling down on their short bets. My guess is the end game is to keep the squeeze going and drive the hedge funds still shorting this thing into the dirt like the hedge funds who dangerously and excessively shorted GME were trying to drive GME stock into the dirt.

I told you Melvin and the others were full of shit when they reported they were out of their short positions. It would've been literally impossible. There were more shares shorted than actually f####king exist. There has only been an 8% dip in short interest in the last week- which means this thing is still over 100% shorted. And most of that short covering occured when- YESTERDAY- when Robinhood and a bunch of other retails FORCED sales of GME and wouldn't let their customers buy. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 02:43:38 PM

so Robinhood announced last night they were going to let their customers buy GME again. Well, about an hour ago they just limited share buying of GME to two shares. After the asshole hedgies are down about $8 billion on GME today alone. 

It is literally disgusting how rigged/corrupt this entire economy/political system/country is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 02:46:03 PM

https://twitter.com/MorningBrew/status/1354509043771928576?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 02:54:28 PM

Some of the hedge funds are out, but their positions have been taken over by other shorts.

Sanity will eventually prevail of course at some point, trees don't grow to the sky.  I wouldn't short it, but I'd buy puts or do a straddle.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 29, 2021, 03:06:30 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 02:34:51 PM

No. The hedge funds are still shorting this thing. Some are even doubling down on their short bets. My guess is the end game is to keep the squeeze going and drive the hedge funds still shorting this thing into the dirt like the hedge funds who dangerously and excessively shorted GME were trying to drive GME stock into the dirt.

I told you Melvin and the others were full of shit when they reported they were out of their short positions. It would've been literally impossible. There were more shares shorted than actually f####king exist. There has only been an 8% dip in short interest in the last week- which means this thing is still over 100% shorted. And most of that short covering occured when- YESTERDAY- when Robinhood and a bunch of other retails FORCED sales of GME and wouldn't let their customers buy.

Ok, so with the stock at $280/share, where does it go? As you unroll all the rest of those shorts, is that going to continue driving the price up? 

How long can this take and what's the risk to the buyers?

As stated, if I'd gotten in early I'd have gotten out by now. And I wouldn't dare enter now because there's just too much downside risk IMHO. 

Yet I'm reading stories of people taking out mortgages to buy GME, which just seems like insanity. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 03:12:12 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on January 29, 2021, 02:29:14 PM

My question for the GME / AMC crowd is what is their endgame?

Had I gotten wind of this in December, and rolled in with $500 or $1000 when the stock was under $10/share, my thought would be to ride the wave up to and including the moment I thought it might crest, and then GTFO.

But I see people that I swear are talking about riding this thing the whole way down just to stick it to the man. Probably a bunch of them that didn't buy in an <$10 prices, but at >$100 prices. And some of them are talking about this like holding for the long term, despite the losses, is valiant...

I don't get it. They hammered the hedge funds. Shouldn't they be getting out now to save themselves?

I was in Vegas once at a Black Jack table.  The guy beside me commented he was way down and was just trying to get enough money back to buy gas to get home to Montana.

anyway all of a sudden his luck changed and he couldnt lose he had thousands of dollars of chips in front of him

I leaned over and said congratulations now you can get back to Montana with a little extra

He just looked at me and said he couldnt quit during a winning streak

That guy sat there and lost it all back

some folks just dont know when its time to get out

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2021, 03:12:44 PM

that is insanity

and they probably don't even know it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 03:16:01 PM

Never invest in a stock for a short term investmentif you dont know ahead of time when you will sell

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2021, 03:16:06 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on January 29, 2021, 03:06:30 PM

Ok, so with the stock at $280/share, where does it go? As you unroll all the rest of those shorts, is that going to continue driving the price up?

How long can this take and what's the risk to the buyers?

As stated, if I'd gotten in early I'd have gotten out by now. And I wouldn't dare enter now because there's just too much downside risk IMHO.

Yet I'm reading stories of people taking out mortgages to buy GME, which just seems like insanity.

the little guys won a couple nice battles and hurt the hedge fund folks real bad this week, but in the end the little guys will get squashed and the big guys on wall street will win again.

but as the K-state wildcats used to say, "It was fun while it lasted"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 03:18:37 PM

This could be the start of a market decline overall, broadly.

It shakes confidence.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 03:23:00 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 03:18:37 PM

This could be the start of a market decline overall, broadly.

It shakes confidence.

I really dont think so

all market indicators point to a bull market

course nothing is certain but it will take more this this for a down turn

like maybe screwing the oil industry which is currently in the process of happening

or raising taxes which will probably happen before year end

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 03:25:33 PM

The major oil companies like higher prices, which can come from restricted supply.

They also have operations in a lot of global places.  Shell Oil and BP are multinationals of course, as is Exxon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 03:31:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 03:25:33 PM

The major oil companies like higher prices, which can come from restricted supply.

They also have operations in a lot of global places.  Shell Oil and BP are multinationals of course, as is Exxon.

And higher prices are bad for the economy in general, and really bad for the average folk who have to fill up their cars which run on their gas.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 03:33:04 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 03:18:37 PM

This could be the start of a market decline overall, broadly.

It shakes confidence.

Doubtful. If anything it could be the start of the end of naked shorting and clamping down on hedge funds- but that's also doubtful. 

Prediction: retail investors get hammered by the law and Wall Street gets to play it's games- while the "stupid money" ie the retail bro- gets the clamps put on.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 03:34:33 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 03:25:33 PM

The major oil companies like higher prices, which can come from restricted supply.

They also have operations in a lot of global places.  Shell Oil and BP are multinationals of course, as is Exxon.

not sure what the normal gallon price is but by year end it will be $1 higher

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 03:36:02 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 03:33:04 PM

Doubtful. If anything it could be the start of the end of naked shorting and clamping down on hedge funds- but that's also doubtful.

Prediction: retail investors get hammered by the law and Wall Street gets to play it's games- while the "stupid money" ie the retail bro- gets the clamps put on.

outside of actions by brokers which are questionable there has been nothing done that needs correcting

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 03:37:40 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on January 29, 2021, 03:06:30 PM

Ok, so with the stock at $280/share, where does it go? As you unroll all the rest of those shorts, is that going to continue driving the price up?

How long can this take and what's the risk to the buyers?

As stated, if I'd gotten in early I'd have gotten out by now. And I wouldn't dare enter now because there's just too much downside risk IMHO.

Yet I'm reading stories of people taking out mortgages to buy GME, which just seems like insanity.

It's still shorted at 112%, still plenty of time to squeeze them. All the people buying the stock now are doing is trying to squeeze the shorts- which drives the price up even more. They'll have to cover these short positions eventually. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 03:37:56 PM

Gasoline prices have been depressed due to COVID for obvious reasons, so the economic activity recovers, one would expect higher gas prices.

The average price per gallon when Obama left office was $2.38.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 29, 2021, 03:38:08 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 03:34:33 PM

not sure what the normal gallon price is but by year end it will be $1 higher

$2.50/gal here right now, for 93.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 03:41:31 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 03:36:02 PM

outside of actions by brokers which are questionable there has been nothing done that needs correcting

What are you talking about? Retail brokers restricting buying of certain stocks, but allowed selling- and in many cases even FORCED sales. 

The hedge funds naked shorted a stock- this is illegal. They should be punished for this alone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2021, 03:42:37 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 03:31:32 PM

And higher prices are bad for the economy in general, and really bad for the average folk who have to fill up their cars which run on their gas.

even worse for below average folks making $15/hour or less

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 03:43:10 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 03:37:56 PM

Gasoline prices have been depressed due to COVID for obvious reasons, so the economic activity recovers, one would expect higher gas prices.

The average price per gallon when Obama left office was $2.38. 

ok fine whatever the normal correction would have been will be quite a bit higher now

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 03:43:15 PM

I didn't buy any GME, or sell, but they have been available on Schwab all day nearly as I can discern, no limit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 29, 2021, 03:43:42 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 03:41:31 PM

What are you talking about? Retail brokers restricting buying of certain stocks, but allowed selling- and in many cases even FORCED sales.

The hedge funds naked shorted a stock- this is illegal. They should be punished for this alone.

Question... Who is at fault for this? 

They need someone to loan them the shares to short. If the prime brokers are loaning shares that don't exist, isn't it the prime brokers who are at fault?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 03:43:57 PM

=AZVHSTSU-_4iWMnP2MAGnJbED_1Ja0GyIHkRZSGnCVDGSYBiyYrB2abgo63Z-8TruH76e4lnNQvGb-DDtO6Sog1n8YwVmkiChbgffR2MiG6o_zxW22DoJsd2HDKz2J2_L7f2tfq27AcdoH6NqD0nWxW-sUJWPfD8byhH5y7i25adO-GqZXfX7M9mtBeSAzRKQj_B3z7h_gmmlhnclbfHGYLEE1G7duRXlVZajv3AfCK4xWXdtJ03ld26M_BQzXeB6jACUKZpYwwu9IYQN0ZBVI8TjP2UK0K1D4eHWNHeq_aJkg&__tn__=-UC%2CP-R"][color=var(--primary-text)]The Economist (http://"https://www.facebook.com/TheEconomist/?__cft__[0)[/iurl]
 


[/color][/size][/color]

[color=var(--secondary-text)]Sponsored (https://www.facebook.com/#)  · [/font][/font][/size][/color]

[color=var(--primary-text)]Global demand is collapsing. If Arab oil states do not wean their economies off the black stuff, they will suffer a similar fate[/font][/font][/size][/color]

(https://econ.st/2M7Djvw?fbclid=IwAR0ed7azvavWELT-qLM8nyOmrw9mn34fzSEltcmHnuzRbmKNQHiWnsbs3vM)[img width=590 height=308.438 alt=The end of a golden age for oil producers | The World In 2021]https://scontent-atl3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t45.1600-4/cp0/q75/spS444/c0.11.526.274a/p526x296/139093519_23846557658600552_3415933874353841132_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=2&_nc_sid=7e83b1&_nc_ohc=1Ca6FzdZfJ0AX9PxJ6i&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-2.xx&oh=b49566b61c78ab45bb7d006703f6bbb8&oe=603B7C4D[/img][/color]
 (https://econ.st/2M7Djvw?fbclid=IwAR0ed7azvavWELT-qLM8nyOmrw9mn34fzSEltcmHnuzRbmKNQHiWnsbs3vM)
 (https://econ.st/2M7Djvw?fbclid=IwAR0ed7azvavWELT-qLM8nyOmrw9mn34fzSEltcmHnuzRbmKNQHiWnsbs3vM)
 (https://econ.st/2M7Djvw?fbclid=IwAR22nzGYS_EDgG1KqjT6d9jHiWJYBU7DoilPgcfhd9GOpT6hBtGPenB3GrY)[color=var(--secondary-text)]ECONOMIST.COM[/color][/font][/font][/size][/color]

[color=var(--primary-text)]The end of a golden age for oil producers | The World In 2021[/font][/font][/size][/color]

 (https://econ.st/2M7Djvw?fbclid=IwAR22nzGYS_EDgG1KqjT6d9jHiWJYBU7DoilPgcfhd9GOpT6hBtGPenB3GrY)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2021, 03:45:18 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 03:37:40 PM

It's still shorted at 112%, still plenty of time to squeeze them. All the people buying the stock now are doing is trying to squeeze the shorts- which drives the price up even more. They'll have to cover these short positions eventually.

there's the question... when is eventually?  How long do the good guys have to hold their stocks to squeeze the big bad guys?

as has been stated, the Hedge fund shorters lost billions, but have they really lost it yet, or will they eventually lose that much if things hold?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 03:46:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 03:43:15 PM

I didn't buy any GME, or sell, but they have been available on Schwab all day nearly as I can discern, no limit.

the retail squeeze wasn't being fueled by Schwab- probably why. It was mainly being fueled by Robinhood. Which literally just restricted buying GME AGAIN- after their CEO made all the rounds on cable tv news and apologized for the confusion and swore GME was going to be available to purchase again tomorrow (today). It was available to purchase freely- then they only allowed 2 shares per account to be purchased- now it's locked up again. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 03:46:11 PM

GM claims it will be all electric by 2035 for cars and light trucks.  Maybe they don't, but they will be heavily electric.  That is potentially a lot of cars, and a lot less gasoline being burned.  It may require a lot more NG to be burned of course.

I think demand for oil is headed down longer term.  We could be awash in the stuff in 15 years with much less demand.  That would be an ironic version of "Peak Oil".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 03:46:22 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 29, 2021, 03:42:37 PM

even worse for below average folks making $15/hour or less

And that's a huge section of this country- unfortunately. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 03:47:00 PM

If I had an account that wouldn't let me trade while Schwab would let me trade, I'd do the obvious, might take a few days.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 03:48:45 PM

CD I cant read your post

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 03:49:09 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on January 29, 2021, 03:43:42 PM

Question... Who is at fault for this?

They need someone to loan them the shares to short. If the prime brokers are loaning shares that don't exist, isn't it the prime brokers who are at fault?

That's a question for the regulators and investigators- both sides are probably at fault. They no doubt naked short and try to manipulate markets and do this shit all the time without anyone saying a word- the one time it blows up in their face you have people calling for regulation- on the retail/little guy. Lol.

SEC needs to investigate the hedge funds. They won't. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2021, 03:49:32 PM

so, 

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 03:46:11 PM

GM claims it will be all electric by 2035 for cars and light trucks.  Maybe they don't, but they will be heavily electric.  That is potentially a lot of cars, and a lot less gasoline being burned.  It may require a lot more NG to be burned of course.

I think demand for oil is headed down longer term.  We could be awash in the stuff in 15 years with much less demand.  That would be an ironic version of "Peak Oil".

so, in 2037, if I'm still driving, I will be able to purchase a 3 year old car and truck that burn gasoline.  And oil/gas prices should plummet from lack of demand.  Could be great paying 99 cents a gallon 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 03:51:14 PM

GameStop short interest stands at $11.2 billion. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2021, 03:54:37 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 03:46:22 PM

And that's a huge section of this country- unfortunately.

So, I looked it up..........


In 2017, 80.4 million workers age 16 and older in the United States were paid at hourly rates, representing 58.3 percent of all wage and salary workers. Among those paid by the hour, 542,000 workers earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. About 1.3 million had wages below the federal minimum. Together, these 1.8 million workers with wages at or below the federal minimum made up 2.3 percent of all hourly paid workers.

1.8 million out of 320 million Americans


https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2017/home.htm#:~:text=In%202017%2C%2080.4%20million%20workers,wage%20of%20%247.25%20per%20hour.


 (https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2017/home.htm#:~:text=In 2017%2C 80.4 million workers,wage of %247.25 per hour.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 03:55:37 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 03:49:09 PM

That's a question for the regulators and investigators- both sides are probably at fault. They no doubt naked short and try to manipulate markets and do this shit all the time without anyone saying a word- the one time it blows up in their face you have people calling for regulation- on the retail/little guy. Lol.

SEC needs to investigate the hedge funds. They won't.

The only possible thing that should be looked into is did the hedge funds cause the brokers to take actions they normally would not have taken

if so then that stock manipulation and is illegal 

or did the brokers just follow published rules of when trading is suspended

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 03:56:05 PM

I'm pretty sure Dodge or someone will make gasoline fueled cars after 2035, likely even GM, but the day is coming where we use much less gasoline  for transportation.

Jet aircraft are an interesting challenge of course, maybe hydrogen, maybe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 29, 2021, 03:59:49 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 29, 2021, 03:49:32 PM

so, so, in 2037, if I'm still driving, I will be able to purchase a 3 year old car and truck that burn gasoline.  And oil/gas prices should plummet from lack of demand.  Could be great paying 99 cents a gallon

Ya but you'll be charged out the ass for your electric golf cart

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 29, 2021, 04:02:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 03:56:05 PM

Jet aircraft are an interesting challenge of course, maybe hydrogen, maybe.

What could possibly go wrong

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/2991231af257ab114339975f7d7b4da7f2d96209/c=0-313-2909-1957/local/-/media/2015/05/06/USATODAY/USATODAY/635665085108581658-hindenburgx0008.jpg?width=660&height=373&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on January 29, 2021, 04:06:25 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 11:16:21 PM

Schwab was supposed to buy TD Ameritrade last August but I have not noticed if they did

In the meantime I still have the same Ameritrade web site and log in

Sale was closed in September, October.  IN the process of Bringing the business together as one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 04:11:05 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 29, 2021, 03:59:49 PM

Ya but you'll be charged out the ass for your electric golf cart

LOL. My next car is definitely going to be a Tesla. Their brand new Plaid+ Model S sedan is freaking gorgeous and has a 590 mile range on full charge, does 200mph and goes 0-60 in 1.99 seconds. Only problem is fully loaded it's about $156k.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2021, 04:15:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 03:56:05 PM

I'm pretty sure Dodge or someone will make gasoline fueled cars after 2035, likely even GM, but the day is coming where we use much less gasoline  for transportation.

Jet aircraft are an interesting challenge of course, maybe hydrogen, maybe.

I'm still looking for them to show me how they're going to solve the battery/range issues for towing, in a pure electric vehicle.

Hybrids on the other hand, could be a great solution for this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 04:22:32 PM

GM said "light trucks".  I guess the 2500s and up are not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2021, 04:26:16 PM

The vast majority of personal/recreational towing in this country is done by F150s/1500s.  I'd hate to have to endure the ride of a F250/2500 just because that's the only option.

But as I've said many times before, I see a great market opportunity for hybrids in that space.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2021, 04:28:02 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 29, 2021, 03:59:49 PM

Ya but you'll be charged out the ass for your electric golf cart

2002 Yamaha gasser


(https://i.imgur.com/7CbHc9p.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2021, 04:31:54 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 29, 2021, 04:26:16 PM

The vast majority of personal/recreational towing in this country is done by F150s/1500s.  I'd hate to have to endure the ride of a F250/2500 just because that's the only option.

But as I've said many times before, I see a great market opportunity for hybrids in that space.

I've had 2500s in the past. 2002 GMC wasn't terrible.  The Fords were stiffer.

I'd guess the ride in the 2035 Chevy 2500 won't be all that bad.  It'll be worth it to have a 450hp 6.2 liter and gas at a buck a gallon

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2021, 04:35:10 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 29, 2021, 04:31:54 PM

I've had 2500s in the past. 2002 GMC wasn't terrible.  The Fords were stiffer.

I'd guess the ride in the 2035 Chevy 2500 won't be all that bad.  It'll be worth it to have a 450hp 6.2 liter and gas at a buck a gallon

Current incarnations of the 250s/2500s ride like dump trucks across all brands.  I test drove them all, both gassers and diesels, before I settled on the F150 with the 3.5L twin turbo EB engine.  It's been a great compromise for a daily driver that also does some pretty significant towing occasionally.

Obviously I have no idea what the 2035 2500s will feel like. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 04:36:16 PM

I wonder if they concoct a special towing truck on a 1500 chassis that is plug in electric but has a Diesel powered generator on board and regen breaking.

The Diesel would be used somewhat rarely.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2021, 04:42:16 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 29, 2021, 04:35:10 PM

Current incarnations of the 250s/2500s ride like dump trucks across all brands.  I test drove them all, both gassers and diesels, before I settled on the F150 with the 3.5L twin turbo EB engine.  It's been a great compromise for a daily driver that also does some pretty significant towing occasionally.

Obviously I have no idea what the 2035 2500s will feel like. :)

Obviously you haven't ridden in a real dump truck for a few years ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 29, 2021, 04:44:56 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 29, 2021, 04:28:02 PM

2002 Yamaha gasser


(https://i.imgur.com/7CbHc9p.jpg)

Ya well I'm driving a 2002 VW Passat - a 1.8 but it's turbo charged

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 04:50:04 PM

Elizabeth Warren aka Pocahontas aka fake ass populist- publicly releases a letter she sent to the SEC where she- wait for it- kinda pretty much calls to protect the hedge funds.

This is a shocker to some people for some odd reason. Warren has never been on the side of the "little guy". Warren is nothing but a grandstanding phony. It's what she's always been. It amazes me she was ever hyped/sold/packaged as part of "the left". She used to be a republican until she was like 47 and she lied about being Native American for her entire life for god sakes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 04:50:49 PM

the economic impact of switching from gasoline to electric has not been fully presented IMHO

what are the additional electricity usage cost from having to recharge batteries

what will replace the state and federal taxes on gasoline

is this going to be cheaper for the US or more expensive

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 04:53:47 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on January 29, 2021, 04:06:25 PM

Sale was closed in September, October.  IN the process of Bringing the business together as one.

Thanks

It will be interesting to see what happens

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2021, 04:55:03 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 29, 2021, 04:44:56 PM

Ya well I'm driving a 2002 VW Passat - a 1.8 but it's turbo charged

290 cc (17.70 cubic inches), a bore (cylinder diameter) of 2.99 inches, a stroke (piston traveling distance) of 2.52 inches, a compression ratio of 8.6 to 1.0 and a maximum torque of 16.6 foot-lbs. at 5,500 revolutions per minute.  10 horsepower


just sips gas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 04:56:55 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 29, 2021, 03:54:37 PM

So, I looked it up..........


In 2017, 80.4 million workers age 16 and older in the United States were paid at hourly rates, representing 58.3 percent of all wage and salary workers. Among those paid by the hour, 542,000 workers earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. About 1.3 million had wages below the federal minimum. Together, these 1.8 million workers with wages at or below the federal minimum made up 2.3 percent of all hourly paid workers.

1.8 million out of 320 million Americans


https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2017/home.htm#:~:text=In%202017%2C%2080.4%20million%20workers,wage%20of%20%247.25%20per%20hour.


 (https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2017/home.htm#:~:text=In 2017%2C 80.4 million workers,wage of %247.25 per hour.)

what many folks dont realize is that wages are not only increased to bring workers up to the minimum wage amount but workers already making the minimum wage amount or close to it will also have to be increased for moral purposes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 29, 2021, 05:15:40 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 04:11:05 PM

LOL. My next car is definitely going to be a Tesla. Their brand new Plaid+ Model S sedan is freaking gorgeous and has a 590 mile range on full charge, does 200mph and goes 0-60 in 1.99 seconds. Only problem is fully loaded it's about $156k.

But think of how much you'll save in gas!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2021, 05:27:43 PM

hah, kilowatts will be very expensive and they will be giving gas away

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 05:31:18 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 04:50:49 PM

the economic impact of switching from gasoline to electric has not been fully presented IMHO

what are the additional electricity usage cost from having to recharge batteries

what will replace the state and federal taxes on gasoline

is this going to be cheaper for the US or more expensive

I'm much more interested in seeing how this affects the petro-dollar and the US dollar being the reserve currency of the world. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 29, 2021, 05:37:42 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 04:11:05 PM

LOL. My next car is definitely going to be a Tesla. Their brand new Plaid+ Model S sedan is freaking gorgeous and has a 590 mile range on full charge, does 200mph and goes 0-60 in 1.99 seconds. Only problem is fully loaded it's about $156k.

I'm sure Aunt Nancy can get you into one for a couple of bucks cheaper.If you don't mind working it off,wink-wink,nudge-nudge

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 05:52:38 PM

Let's imagine by 2035 that say 75% of sales of NEW cars and light trucks are fully EVs, that could be a rough estimate.  The percentage of EVs on the road would be say 40%, and growing.  I've read various estimates, but we'd need about 15-20% more electrical power to the grid, at night anyway.  At night.

That's doable, normally, but our overall demand for electric power is growing as well, along with GDP basically, or close to that.  So you'd need more wind power, much more, just to stay even, not able to shutter coal and NG production plants.  You can scribble the math on a napkin and it isn't good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 06:14:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 05:52:38 PM

Let's imagine by 2035 that say 75% of sales of NEW cars and light trucks are fully EVs, that could be a rough estimate.  The percentage of EVs on the road would be say 40%, and growing.  I've read various estimates, but we'd need about 15-20% more electrical power to the grid, at night anyway.  At night.

That's doable, normally, but our overall demand for electric power is growing as well, along with GDP basically, or close to that.  So you'd need more wind power, much more, just to stay even, not able to shutter coal and NG production plants.  You can scribble the math on a napkin and it isn't good.

yep and all you folks that think you will be saving by not using gasoline need to know that the state and federal gov will get that gas tax revenue some way

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 06:15:52 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 29, 2021, 05:37:42 PM

I'm sure Aunt Nancy can get you into one for a couple of bucks cheaper.If you don't mind working it off,wink-wink,nudge-nudge

I might consider it if she'd give me that $250,000 Tesla roadster....LOL.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 06:20:37 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 29, 2021, 06:14:22 PM

yep and all you folks that think you will be saving by not using gasoline need to know that the state and federal gov will get that gas tax revenue some way

That will have to happen of course, somehow.  But EVs are quite a bit cheaper to fuel per mile today than gasoline.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 06:22:04 PM

this would be hilarious if it wasn't predictable and sad.

https://thefederalist.com/2021/01/29/twitter-troll-replaced-trump-with-cuomo-in-maxine-waters-infamous-call-to-violence-and-democrats-lost-their-minds/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 29, 2021, 06:24:01 PM

So in the days of our lives, electric fireplace edition.  So the converter allowed the fireplace to turn on, but neither the heat nor the motor worked.  So, it could be this thing is just a lemon.  OTOH, it is a UK plug, which generally runs at 240 volts as opposed to 120 for Americans.  Would that difference cause those kinds of issues, i.e. the appliance can't draw enough power to do the more power intensive things?  Or am I thinking about that incorrectly?  Trying to decide whether it's worth exploring getting a transformer of some sort or just throwing the thing out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 29, 2021, 06:26:47 PM

would be sad if it wasn't true. how does an FBI lawyer who forged documents which helped kick off a bullshit investigation which cost the tax payer tens of millions of dollars- only get probation?


https://twitter.com/seanmdav/status/1355206434921836544?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 06:31:09 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 29, 2021, 06:24:01 PM

So in the days of our lives, electric fireplace edition. 

It likely draws more current than your current converter can convert.  I have this issue with the wife's French cooking gadgets, it takes a large heavy transformer for them to function, and even then they are down on power.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 29, 2021, 06:33:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 06:31:09 PM

It likely draws more current than your current converter can convert.  I have this issue with the wife's French cooking gadgets, it takes a large heavy transformer for them to function, and even then they are down on power.

Yep. 

Likewise the opposite way. I had one of the little travel converters and when we were in Italy my wife tried to use it for her hair dryer... Lasted a few minutes and then dead. 

Too much current. 

As for the outlet, there should be no trouble if you have a proper transformer that can handle the current. You'll lose efficiency and your power bills will be higher doing it that way, but you should have enough juice. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 29, 2021, 06:42:45 PM

That's helpful, thanks.  I already ordered a different fireplace for the bedroom, but my wife has a little crafting station in the basement and if I can get this to work she'd probably like it down there.  Plus if she spends more time in the basement she won't be bothering me. Win win.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2021, 07:23:08 AM

The wife had a transformer built into the kitchen in Cincy.  It weight maybe 50 pounds.  She bought a smaller one for here, maybe 20 pounds.  It worked for a year or so and then shorted something.

She wants another one.  I've told her the heavier one's likely last longer, but then she can't get it down from the cabinet.  My solution would be to ditch the ancient French gear and buy new 'Murican stuff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 30, 2021, 08:06:48 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 29, 2021, 06:24:01 PM

Trying to decide whether it's worth exploring getting a transformer of some sort or just throwing the thing out.

A transformer better be well made.Is it as a step or down transformer and designed for what you are doing? since you need a converter kit and transformer,Have an electrician look this over or at the very least plug it into a GFCI.This could smack of debacle if you start McGuyvering everything.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 30, 2021, 08:14:48 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 30, 2021, 08:06:48 AM

A transformer better be well made.Is it as a step or down transformer and designed for what you are doing? since you need a converter kit and transformer,Have an electrician look this over or at the very least plug it into a GFCI.This could smack of debacle if you start McGuyvering everything.

Heh good point.  My reading suggests I need a step up transformer, probably 5000 watts.  Not sure it is worth the effort. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 30, 2021, 08:36:02 AM

It's not worth it. Maybe look into re-wiring the FP.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2021, 09:03:14 AM

The wife asked about putting in a French plug when we redid our kitchen.  The electrician may not have understood, but he said no.

We have US 220 for the dryer and stove of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 30, 2021, 09:46:02 AM

meanwhile we peons will forge ahead using USA stuff

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 30, 2021, 10:20:58 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 29, 2021, 06:20:37 PM

That will have to happen of course, somehow.  But EVs are quite a bit cheaper to fuel per mile today than gasoline.

California has about an 80 cent tax per gallon
that's not a lot per mile, but it is a factor

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 30, 2021, 10:36:15 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 30, 2021, 10:20:58 AM

California has about an 80 cent tax per gallon
that's not a lot per mile, but it is a factor

do you think they are willing to give that up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 30, 2021, 10:37:22 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 30, 2021, 10:36:15 AM

do you think they are willing to give that up

Illinois charges EV users an extra $100/year for license plates.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 30, 2021, 10:55:31 AM

$100/year will be going up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2021, 10:58:59 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/RMvjRtA.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2021, 11:37:11 AM

Ranking college football's 15 most valuable programs (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/LongFormArticle/Alabama-Crimson-Tide-Texas-Longhorns-Ohio-State-Buckeyes-Michigan-college-football-most-valuable-programs-2019-134159991/#134159991_10)

Speaking of money ....

I was surprised to see Tenn ahead of Florida (one spot), and this is for 2018 apparently.

Not sure of the methodology of course but I like lists....

This really is click bait, so I'll just say the list is pretty much as expected.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 30, 2021, 01:52:23 PM

another reason to move to Texas, not Florida

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 30, 2021, 02:47:39 PM

Our course does not allow gas golf carts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 30, 2021, 02:55:22 PM

that's fine, as long as the beverage cart is speedy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2021, 09:05:26 AM

Physicists Measure the ‘Magic’ Fine-Structure Constant | Quanta Magazine (https://www.quantamagazine.org/physicists-measure-the-magic-fine-structure-constant-20201202/)

As fundamental constants go, the speed of light, c, enjoys all the fame, yet c’s numerical value says nothing about nature; it differs depending on whether it’s measured in meters per second or miles per hour. The fine-structure constant, by contrast, has no dimensions or units. It’s a pure number that shapes the universe to an astonishing degree — “a magic number that comes to us with no understanding,” as Richard Feynman described it. Paul Dirac considered the origin of the number “the most fundamental unsolved problem of physics.”

Numerically, the fine-structure constant, denoted by the Greek letter α (alpha), comes very close to the ratio 1/137. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2021, 09:54:27 AM

I deleted my Book Face account yesterday.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2021, 10:05:48 AM

I get a kick out of Facebook personally,  It doesn't bother me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 31, 2021, 10:07:50 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2021, 09:54:27 AM

I deleted my Book Face account yesterday.

I used to consume it a lot. I do less now. Maybe to look someone up. Maybe to see how a friend's kids are, check on life moments, mock a friend's sports teams. 

I've grown good at scrolling through and past politics. And almost never put any of my own out. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2021, 10:08:41 AM

Just no longer interested as being part of that awful machine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 31, 2021, 10:14:22 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2021, 10:08:41 AM

Just no longer interested as being part of that awful machine.

all of my family has also done this

I have not yet only because I only use facebook to see notifications from others but Im thinking seriously of deleting it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 31, 2021, 10:18:24 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2021, 10:08:41 AM

Just no longer interested as being part of that awful machine.

I kind of want to ask what makes it an awful machine, just because I'm curious. But I imagine that might spill out into something. 

Not that it's not awful, but it's awful in a range of ways, often very different ones from different people. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 31, 2021, 10:18:57 AM

I use facebook mostly for birthdays

I pause folks for 30 days if I tire of scrolling by their political posts

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2021, 10:34:00 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 31, 2021, 10:18:24 AM

I kind of want to ask what makes it an awful machine, just because I'm curious. But I imagine that might spill out into something.

Not that it's not awful, but it's awful in a range of ways, often very different ones from different people.

Let's say I deleted all the posts here that I didn't agree with. How would that be taken?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2021, 10:38:53 AM

How Facebook is run doesn't bother me, but then, not much does.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 31, 2021, 10:43:31 AM

Facebook is for posting pictures of your new cars, fabulous vacations, kids, pets, etc.  It's for making people understand that my life is better than theirs.  ;)

They, of course, should do the same to me.  It's fun.

I don't ever post politics on Facebook, and I block anyone that does.  I don't unfriend them, because they still need to see my pictures of fabulous vacations and whatnot, and envy me and wish their lives were as great as mine, but I don't want to see their political hawt takes no matter which particular echo chamber they choose to reside in.

But I do find it really handy for keeping up to date with friends and family that I don't see regularly, keeping up with their kids, and letting them know what we're up to as well.  When you eliminate all the political shit-posting, it's really a pleasant experience.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 31, 2021, 11:05:26 AM

I have never been on Facebook or had an account. Same with Instagram.

I honestly don’t feel like I’m missing a damn thing as a text directly to all my friends and family and get pictures and updates all the time.  

I generally like humans but it is waning. Social media just reinforces how many human traits and elements I find extremely distasteful.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2021, 11:05:52 AM

I enjoy the political postings.  And of course I enjoy the ones that are clearly incorrect factually.  I don't think the posters enjoy when I correct them much.

It's a window into the human condition and psyche.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2021, 11:17:56 AM

Scary shit here.

U.S. intelligence officials say Chinese government is collecting Americans' DNA - 60 Minutes - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/china-us-biodata-60-minutes-2021-01-28/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 31, 2021, 11:26:54 AM

I've been told 60 minutes is not trustworthy

I quit watching

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2021, 11:27:50 AM

That DNA article title is very misleading in my view.  The article doesn't say that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 31, 2021, 11:30:40 AM

most titles are very misleading

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2021, 11:31:42 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 31, 2021, 11:26:54 AM

I've been told 60 minutes is not trustworthy

I quit watching

Better?

Former Intel Official: China Looking to Collect Americans' DNA | Newsmax.com
 (https://www.newsmax.com/world/globaltalk/evanina-china-dna-covid/2021/01/29/id/1007871/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 31, 2021, 12:24:37 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 31, 2021, 11:26:54 AM

I've been told 60 minutes is not trustworthy

I quit watching

That only works if whoever told you is more trustworthy than 60 minutes, lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 31, 2021, 12:29:48 PM

You guys are funny, talking about facebook like that.  If you think it's bad, check out twitter.  It's the ultimate cesspool.  It's basically the most vile comments from a  youtube video transmorphing itself into news.  Facebook is for old people now and twitter is the current platform for people to see what's happening in the world...while wading in knee-deep sewage.
.
And then there's reddit, which is like the worst people alive have taken truth serum and share EVERYTHING horrible they've witnessed or done themeselves.
.
And there's twitch, which you really won't like if you don't like young people expecting money for doing nothing.  Most of it is girls in bikini tops playing video games as men watch and hand their money over. 




"We the poeple" are really pretty disgusting.  Hance my lack of respect and optimism about "the masses."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2021, 12:37:42 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 31, 2021, 12:24:37 PM

That only works if whoever told you is more trustworthy than 60 minutes, lol.

They probably have good sessions and bad.  I have seen some very blatantly bad ones in my time.  The one about Audi unintended acceleration was clearly a  made up story where they fabricated the results.  They had another about the Bradley fighting vehicle that was WAY over the top as well.  I quit watching around that time, it was clear to me they contrive a story and fit the facts to the story, they don't have time to research a story, realize they were wrong, and find something else.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 31, 2021, 01:47:40 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 31, 2021, 12:29:48 PM

You guys are funny, talking about facebook like that.  If you think it's bad, check out twitter.  It's the ultimate cesspool.  It's basically the most vile comments from a  youtube video transmorphing itself into news.  Facebook is for old people now and twitter is the current platform for people to see what's happening in the world...while wading in knee-deep sewage.
.
And then there's reddit, which is like the worst people alive have taken truth serum and share EVERYTHING horrible they've witnessed or done themeselves.
.
And there's twitch, which you really won't like if you don't like young people expecting money for doing nothing.  Most of it is girls in bikini tops playing video games as men watch and hand their money over. 




"We the poeple" are really pretty disgusting.  Hance my lack of respect and optimism about "the masses."

I've seen twitter.  Certainly have no interest in that nonsense and anyone that chooses to consume their "news" via that platform deserves to be ill-informed and have nonsensical opinions.

As for gamer girls on twitch, well, that's not my thing but I just look at it in economic terms as market efficiency.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2021, 02:17:07 PM

My take on Facebook partly is that for most people, it is not something that improves their life. For some that's because it's impossible to take their eyes off the political portion of it. For others it creates an impression that others are living their best life--and they're not. For many they feel forced into being "Facebook friends" with relatives that they actually don't have anything in common with, and it causes familial drama when sometimes it would be better to just not engage. 

On top of that, everyone on FB or Instagram asks for chronological posting--but they can't allow that because it reduces engagement. If you know that you're caught up, then you'll put down the app for a few hours at least. If you never know whether you're going to be missing something, people get into the idea that they have to refresh it constantly lest they miss something. Facebook tries to claim that their algorithm is showing them the best content, but it's all about not letting people know whether they're up to date or not, so they get addicted to it. 

That's before you get into anything about promoting/hiding specific content, which is a whole different issue.

If you can keep your sanity and emotional well-being and be on Facebook, then good for you. It makes me angry to get on it, so I don't. The only thing I use it for is Messenger, and I'm thinking about deleting it entirely. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 31, 2021, 02:25:21 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on January 31, 2021, 02:17:07 PM

My take on Facebook partly is that for most people, it is not something that improves their life. For some that's because it's impossible to take their eyes off the political portion of it. For others it creates an impression that others are living their best life--and they're not. For many they feel forced into being "Facebook friends" with relatives that they actually don't have anything in common with, and it causes familial drama when sometimes it would be better to just not engage.

On top of that, everyone on FB or Instagram asks for chronological posting--but they can't allow that because it reduces engagement. If you know that you're caught up, then you'll put down the app for a few hours at least. If you never know whether you're going to be missing something, people get into the idea that they have to refresh it constantly lest they miss something. Facebook tries to claim that their algorithm is showing them the best content, but it's all about not letting people know whether they're up to date or not, so they get addicted to it.

That's before you get into anything about promoting/hiding specific content, which is a whole different issue.

If you can keep your sanity and emotional well-being and be on Facebook, then good for you. It makes me angry to get on it, so I don't. The only thing I use it for is Messenger, and I'm thinking about deleting it entirely.

Yeah I see some people that can't handle it.

Most people I know, find it useful for trading information on their kids and general goings-on.  That's about all I ever use it for.  My experience has been almost entirely positive, I've been lucky enough to connect with people I genuinely like, that I hadn't interacted with in years.  I find value there.

Like I said, anyone that posts more than maybe about 5% political stuff, I just unfollow.  Keeps it very clean.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2021, 03:35:03 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 31, 2021, 12:24:37 PM

That only works if whoever told you is more trustworthy than 60 minutes, lol.

it's basically Viacom trash operated/owned by the heirs of the late billionaire Sumner Redstone. I believe his daughter is now the CEO and all of his kid have a hand in running it. It's not news.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2021, 03:37:29 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2021, 11:17:56 AM

Scary shit here.

U.S. intelligence officials say Chinese government is collecting Americans' DNA - 60 Minutes - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/china-us-biodata-60-minutes-2021-01-28/)

60 minutes is trash- and any time "US intelligence officials" are leaking something to the mainstream corporate media- you can 90+% of the time immediately call bullshit on it. 

The greatest "misinformation/disinformation" campaigns don't came from twitter or facebook. They come from the mainstream news which has become completely infiltrated by US intelligence. The large media corporations work with the state- not against them. Never forget that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2021, 03:45:54 PM

I imagine some 60 Minutes shows are fine.  I don't watch.  I just wouldn't trust their message without checking independently.

And that headline is not supported by the actual article.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 31, 2021, 05:02:18 PM

Too few people use the "hide" option on FB.  You don't unfriend them, and they're not notified in any way....you just stop seeing their posts.  I only see people's posts that aren't infuriating or ignorant thanks to it.  
.
I began my Whoa Nellie game on FB and it's done well there, but it would absolutely spread further on Twitter, but I'm not familiar enough with it to avoid all the muck.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 31, 2021, 05:29:30 PM

I use the "snooze for 30 days"

sorry, I posted "pause" earlier

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 31, 2021, 05:53:52 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 31, 2021, 05:02:18 PM

Too few people use the "hide" option on FB.  You don't unfriend them, and they're not notified in any way....you just stop seeing their posts.  I only see people's posts that aren't infuriating or ignorant thanks to it. 
.
I began my Whoa Nellie game on FB and it's done well there, but it would absolutely spread further on Twitter, but I'm not familiar enough with it to avoid all the muck. 

how would you feel if FB decided you were bad for society and banned your game

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 31, 2021, 06:00:27 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 31, 2021, 05:53:52 PM

how would you feel if FB decided you were bad for society and banned your game

This is how I feel about church

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 31, 2021, 06:04:23 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 31, 2021, 05:53:52 PM

how would you feel if FB decided you were bad for society and banned your game

I'd reflect on it and consider if my game was bad for society.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 31, 2021, 06:14:34 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 31, 2021, 06:00:27 PM

This is how I feel about church

You've been banned from church?Well just don't go kind of limits their options

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 31, 2021, 06:26:57 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 31, 2021, 06:04:23 PM

I'd reflect on it and consider if my game was bad for society. 

really?  that says it all

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 31, 2021, 06:31:03 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 31, 2021, 05:53:52 PM

how would you feel if FB decided you were bad for society and banned your game

One would assume a person in that case wouldn't use Facebook. And they would probably be better off for it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 31, 2021, 06:40:21 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 31, 2021, 06:04:23 PM

I'd reflect on it and consider if my game was bad for society. 

and after deciding the game was OK for society, open an twitter account

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 31, 2021, 07:03:03 PM

well, 60 minutes has started

I'm watching with a wary eye

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 31, 2021, 07:41:30 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 31, 2021, 06:31:03 PM

One would assume a person in that case wouldn't use Facebook. And they would probably be better off for it.

and what if FB, Twitter, Youtube and others decided it was bad for society no posts concerning the game were allowed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 31, 2021, 08:25:46 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 31, 2021, 07:41:30 PM

and what if FB, Twitter, Youtube and others decided it was bad for society no posts concerning the game were allowed

Well, first I would say it's quite impressive that among the millions of users and billions of pieces of content, that it was that piece that caught their attention. 

I assume I'd be mad. But, I would understand the simple fact that these companies have freedom of association as guaranteed by the first amendment and they are machines of shareholder value, and if publicly blocking my game from distribution helped that, it would be the choice they would make. I wouldn't be happy they did it, but I would not be so entitled as to assume they had to allow me to share that game just because. 

I'd ideally turn to find other ways to distribute. It would be unfortunate since these corporations would not allow me to use their large moneymaking apparatus, but capitalism and the first amendment are the bedrock here. I had ancestors who would suggest we take the means of production, but that's not the way our setup works, for good and ill. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 31, 2021, 09:33:59 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 31, 2021, 08:25:46 PM

Well, first I would say it's quite impressive that among the millions of users and billions of pieces of content, that it was that piece that caught their attention.

I assume I'd be mad. But, I would understand the simple fact that these companies have freedom of association as guaranteed by the first amendment and they are machines of shareholder value, and if publicly blocking my game from distribution helped that, it would be the choice they would make. I wouldn't be happy they did it, but I would not be so entitled as to assume they had to allow me to share that game just because.

I'd ideally turn to find other ways to distribute. It would be unfortunate since these corporations would not allow me to use their large moneymaking apparatus, but capitalism and the first amendment are the bedrock here. I had ancestors who would suggest we take the means of production, but that's not the way our setup works, for good and ill.

ok same question except for the fact that your competitors were not censored selling a very similar game

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 31, 2021, 10:40:00 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 31, 2021, 09:33:59 PM

ok same question except for the fact that your competitors were not censored selling a very similar game

I wouldn't be super happy. But as a millennial, I've been told for years and years by older folks that my generation is too prone to thinking life is fair when it is really not. So I imagine I'd shrug it off and keep at it. It's my personal responsibility to work hard, and I'll do that. 

And in the end, I'd understand that in the marketplace of ideas, there are many outlets. Now, of course, we're talking about a harmless card game focused on college football history. A silly passion to be sure. Nothing really beyond that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 31, 2021, 11:04:22 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 31, 2021, 10:40:00 PM

I wouldn't be super happy. But as a millennial, I've been told for years and years by older folks that my generation is too prone to thinking life is fair when it is really not. So I imagine I'd shrug it off and keep at it. It's my personal responsibility to work hard, and I'll do that.

And in the end, I'd understand that in the marketplace of ideas, there are many outlets. Now, of course, we're talking about a harmless card game focused on college football history. A silly passion to be sure. Nothing really beyond that.

lets just hope America wont also rollover 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 01, 2021, 12:02:59 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 31, 2021, 11:04:22 PM

lets just hope America wont also rollover

It'll to the next best thing, ineffectually complain and say sometimes gross and sometimes untrue things to one another.

(All this, over a card game. What a country)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 01, 2021, 01:53:55 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 31, 2021, 09:33:59 PM

ok same question except for the fact that your competitors were not censored selling a very similar game

Boy, you're really straining to get that victim card as a straight white male who leans right, aren't ya?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 01, 2021, 01:54:38 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 31, 2021, 10:40:00 PM

I wouldn't be super happy. But as a millennial, I've been told for years and years by older folks that my generation is too prone to thinking life is fair when it is really not. So I imagine I'd shrug it off and keep at it. It's my personal responsibility to work hard, and I'll do that.

And in the end, I'd understand that in the marketplace of ideas, there are many outlets. Now, of course, we're talking about a harmless card game focused on college football history. A silly passion to be sure. Nothing really beyond that.

It's only harmless if you play it solo.  :96:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 01, 2021, 01:59:59 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 01, 2021, 01:53:55 PM

Boy, you're really straining to get that victim card as a straight white male who leans right, aren't ya?

playing the race card QAM?

thats pretty low even for you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2021, 02:37:37 PM

Just bought a 32 inch monitor, and discovered it has only HDMI connections.  My old desktop has only VGA output, so I hope I bought the correct adaptor.

We'll see.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 01, 2021, 02:54:28 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 01, 2021, 02:37:37 PM

Just bought a 32 inch monitor, and discovered it has only HDMI connections.  My old desktop has only VGA output, so I hope I bought the correct adaptor.

We'll see.

If your current computer only has VGA outputs, then it's probably time for you to update and upgrade...


https://deals.dell.com/en-us/productdetail/7b95

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 01, 2021, 02:58:41 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 01, 2021, 01:59:59 PM

playing the race card QAM?

thats pretty low even for you

No more than I'm playing the straight card or male card.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 01, 2021, 02:58:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 01, 2021, 02:37:37 PM

Just bought a 32 inch monitor, and discovered it has only HDMI connections.  My old desktop has only VGA output, so I hope I bought the correct adaptor.

We'll see.

When it catches fire, have the extinguisher on hand. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2021, 03:01:08 PM

I can pick up a new computer fairly cheaply, this Dell has lasted a lot longer than most did back in the day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 01, 2021, 03:06:39 PM

my old Dell desktop at home has some age, but the most stressful thing I put it through is logging into this forum

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 01, 2021, 03:17:49 PM

Dude, you're getting a Dell!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 01, 2021, 03:25:19 PM

In any event, delivery services are certainly growing and the pandemic has really rearranged life that some ways will not go back to normal.  While we are saying how things ought to be, I'd like to see governments really loosen up liquor laws.  Shopping centers should be an all in one type place - grab a bite to eat, grab a drink, peruse the stores while walking around with your margarita slurpee.  Getting people to leave the house consistently is getting more difficult, and the excessive regulation only drives down options.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2021, 03:27:48 PM

I wonder about all the new office space going up around me.

Midtown development pipeline includes 26 major projects right now (curbed.com) (https://atlanta.curbed.com/maps/map-midtown-atlanta-development-apartment-condo-office)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2021, 03:33:12 PM

So, what will be different when things return to "normal"?

Work from home - Does anyone think this won't remain very common?  Maybe it's 1-2 days a week, maybe it's everything.

Delivery services - Grocery stores, restaurants, Amazon of course is gorging on this.

Loss of independent eateries - I imagine the chains will survive, fast food might stay more prominent

Movie going - I was oogling an  80" OLED TV today at Costco.  Do I need a movie theater?

Travel - might return to near normal?

Virtual doctor visits

The optimist in me hopes this mRNA vaccine tech becomes widely useful for antivirals.  Even if you get COVID after the vaccine, it is almost certain to be mild.

What other changes have you seen?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 01, 2021, 03:38:56 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 01, 2021, 03:33:12 PM

So, what will be different when things return to "normal"?

Work from home - Does anyone think this won't remain very common?  Maybe it's 1-2 days a week, maybe it's everything.

Delivery services - Grocery stores, restaurants, Amazon of course is gorging on this.

Loss of independent eateries - I imagine the chains will survive, fast food might stay more prominent

Movie going - I was oogling an  80" OLED TV today at Costco.  Do I need a movie theater?

Travel - might return to near normal?

Virtual doctor visits

The optimist in me hopes this mRNA vaccine tech becomes widely useful for antivirals.  Even if you get COVID after the vaccine, it is almost certain to be mild.

What other changes have you seen?

I was thinking about the theaters the other day

not sure they will return

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 01, 2021, 03:57:24 PM

I still love going to see the big blockbusters at the movie theater.  Star Wars, Avengers, those kinds of movies.  In a normal year we hit the theater 3-4x.

But I don't know if there are enough people like me, or if my habits are enough, to sustain movie theaters.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 01, 2021, 04:14:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 01, 2021, 03:33:12 PM

• Work from home - Does anyone think this won't remain very common?  Maybe it's 1-2 days a week, maybe it's everything.
• Delivery services - Grocery stores, restaurants, Amazon of course is gorging on this.
• Loss of independent eateries - I imagine the chains will survive, fast food might stay more prominent
• Movie going - I was oogling an  80" OLED TV today at Costco.  Do I need a movie theater?
• Travel - might return to near normal?
• Virtual doctor visits

• Absolutely think this will stay. Some of the execs upchain of me prior to this didn't like WFH--preferred to have their employees in the office. This has ABSOLUTELY changed their mind. While there is some advantage to the office, the belief that productivity would fall off a cliff with WFH wasn't true.
• I think to some extent all of this (except Amazon) will fade. Sometimes with grocery, you actually want to SEE your produce before you buy, and not have some person you don't know substituting some food you didn't want because what you wanted was out of stock. For restaurant delivery, I think people will realize that they're spending WAY more for delivery services than carry-out or dine-in and that one might fade as well. For goods? Yeah, I think everyone has been pushed into free shipping and I definitely think "buy on line / pick up curbside or in store" will completely increase. 
• Tough to say. I think independent eateries will recover, as it's a common small business formation. Even if some are decimated by the pandemic, I think they'll be replaced over time. 
• I think this, along with sporting events, is already happening. However, at the same time I think movies--for the demographic that MOST funds the theaters--is a social event. Old curmudgeons like us would rather sit in our own house and may not really care if we see a move on opening weekend or 6 months later. For the teens/twenties crowd, who may not be able to afford an 80" TV or the living room and surround sound setup to hold it, I think it'll come right back.
• Travel is going to be PACKED and EXPENSIVE starting the 2nd half of this year and through 2022, IMHO. I'm flat out itching to go somewhere, and I think a LOT of other people are too. 
• Totally think this will continue. For routine stuff, why bother taking 2-3 hours out of your day for a 30 minute or 1 hour appointment, when you can just do it virtually... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 01, 2021, 04:15:45 PM

BTW I totally think that you guys should all be looking into refreshing your PCs, laptops, etc...

In fact, don't get off Facebook / Twitter / Youtube / etc. Start posting HUGE videos and pictures and other stuff. Need to fill some hard drives. 

94 and I have kids to feed :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2021, 04:27:22 PM

‘A Universe From Nothing,’ by Lawrence M. Krauss - The New York Times (nytimes.com) (https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/books/review/a-universe-from-nothing-by-lawrence-m-krauss.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 01, 2021, 05:31:40 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on February 01, 2021, 04:15:45 PM

BTW I totally think that you guys should all be looking into refreshing your PCs, laptops, etc...

In fact, don't get off Facebook / Twitter / Youtube / etc. Start posting HUGE videos and pictures and other stuff. Need to fill some hard drives.

94 and I have kids to feed :57:

Word up.

Also, you all definitely need 8K Displays.  It really makes a huge difference...




...to my bonus check.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2021, 05:55:34 PM

I would update my Dell if it wasn't so cumbersome to migrate everything.  I have an Office disc somewhere here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 01, 2021, 06:07:20 PM

haven't been to the movie theater since my youngest daughter was scared to see the Spiderman movie in 2002

think it was about 2004 when I bought this Dell

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2021, 06:12:16 PM

Perfection is the enemy of good enough.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2021, 06:22:56 PM

The Cadillac CT5V Blackwing reveal is at 7 this evening, I am guessing no one here really cares.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 01, 2021, 06:27:56 PM

I might care a little if it has the same engine as the Z06 C8 Vette

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2021, 06:29:23 PM

Probably not, but it will have a manual as an option.  The Cadillac Blackwing enginre won't be used, it will be the 6.2 L supercharged Chevy engine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 01, 2021, 06:31:06 PM

it won't be under powered

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2021, 06:36:55 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 01, 2021, 05:55:34 PM

I would update my Dell if it wasn't so cumbersome to migrate everything.  I have an Office disc somewhere here.

Quote from: FearlessF on February 01, 2021, 06:07:20 PM

haven't been to the movie theater since my youngest daughter was scared to see the Spiderman movie in 2002

think it was about 2004 when I bought this Dell

Damn youse guys still have your AOL Accounts too?Since 2004 I've had a Dell & HP CPU's with Toshiba Monitor,then an Acer and I'm just cracking open my 2nd Lenovo Laptop.And I'm definitely behind the technology curve,still thinking of going Amish the gadgets not only getting way to expensive but hardly serving my purposes.I can hear the theme of Green Acres wafting about in the back ground

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 01, 2021, 06:40:50 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on February 01, 2021, 04:14:25 PM

• I think to some extent all of this (except Amazon) will fade. Sometimes with grocery, you actually want to SEE your produce before you buy, and not have some person you don't know substituting some food you didn't want because what you wanted was out of stock. For restaurant delivery, I think people will realize that they're spending WAY more for delivery services than carry-out or dine-in and that one might fade as well. For goods? Yeah, I think everyone has been pushed into free shipping and I definitely think "buy on line / pick up curbside or in store" will completely increase.

I love going to the grocery store and have no interest in those services, but for people who aren't as cooking obsessed, I think they love it. They have as much interest in walking around grocery stores as I do walking around department stores.

Also, talking my family out to eat is a huge pain in the ass. I think I save money ordering delivery, because I doubt have to buy drinks and don't have to order whole meals for my kids who aren't that interested in their meal anyway. Speaking only for myself, I'm much more likely to order delivery than go out to eat even in non pandemic times.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 01, 2021, 07:19:54 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 01, 2021, 06:22:56 PM

The Cadillac CT5V Blackwing reveal is at 7 this evening, I am guessing no one here really cares.

And you w be wrong.  I have stated here many times -  I am a car nut.  Specifically- modern performance/every day driver cars.  Non exotic 

I have been following the Blackwing closely for a while.  Drool 🤤

I have been curious since Cadillac announced they were scaling down the V- series cars ( the CTS-V was in the elite category on the world stage). The Blackwing keeps their foot in that door.

I owned version 1- the 09 CTS-V. 

I have a 710HP Hellcat Durango on order.  Excess... I Know.  My vice.  Wasn’t kidding when I said “nut”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 01, 2021, 07:21:36 PM

I don't mind going inside to shop for food.  As long as it's not too crowded.

I don't like Walmart's or malls or department stores

I could purchase almost everything online and have it delivered, I think even groceries

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2021, 07:22:19 PM

Road Stands ?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 01, 2021, 07:23:44 PM

road stands are good if the weather is decent

that's how I purchase sweet corn in season if someone isn't loading my truck because they have too much

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 01, 2021, 07:56:04 PM

https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/tim-cook-may-have-just-ended-facebook.html?fbclid=IwAR3m0FN6-uyb4Dpun-WG3dwac7xhDNHKcdn7_1wA-WvP0Jd7qNjQRVNnFXo (https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/tim-cook-may-have-just-ended-facebook.html?fbclid=IwAR3m0FN6-uyb4Dpun-WG3dwac7xhDNHKcdn7_1wA-WvP0Jd7qNjQRVNnFXo)

Apple CEO Tim Cook went on the offensive against Mark Zuckerberg and Facebook. Cook's speech seems to be a direct response to Facebook's recent attack on Apple, in which the world's largest social network took out full-page ads in several newspapers attacking Apple's new privacy changes.

But what's most fascinating is that Cook took direct aim at Facebook without ever mentioning the company by name.

Just check out the following excerpt:


"Technology does not need vast troves of personal data stitched together across dozens of websites and apps in order to succeed. Advertising existed and thrived for decades without it, and we're here today because the path of least resistance is rarely the path of wisdom.

"If a business is built on misleading users on data exploitation, on choices that are no choices at all, then it does not deserve our praise. It deserves reform.

"We should not look away from the bigger picture. In a moment of rampant disinformation and conspiracy theories juiced by algorithms, we can no longer turn a blind eye to a theory of technology that says all engagement is good engagement, the longer the better, and all with the goal of collecting as much data as possible.

"Too many are still asking the question "How much can we get away with?" when they need to be asking "What are the consequences?

"What are the consequences of prioritizing conspiracy theories and violent incitement simply because of the high rates of engagement?

"What are the consequences of not just tolerating but rewarding content that undermines public trust in life-saving vaccinations?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 01, 2021, 10:01:50 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 01, 2021, 07:56:04 PM

https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/tim-cook-may-have-just-ended-facebook.html?fbclid=IwAR3m0FN6-uyb4Dpun-WG3dwac7xhDNHKcdn7_1wA-WvP0Jd7qNjQRVNnFXo (https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/tim-cook-may-have-just-ended-facebook.html?fbclid=IwAR3m0FN6-uyb4Dpun-WG3dwac7xhDNHKcdn7_1wA-WvP0Jd7qNjQRVNnFXo)

Apple CEO Tim Cook went on the offensive against Mark Zuckerberg and Facebook. Cook's speech seems to be a direct response to Facebook's recent attack on Apple, in which the world's largest social network took out full-page ads in several newspapers attacking Apple's new privacy changes.

But what's most fascinating is that Cook took direct aim at Facebook without ever mentioning the company by name.

Just check out the following excerpt:


"Technology does not need vast troves of personal data stitched together across dozens of websites and apps in order to succeed. Advertising existed and thrived for decades without it, and we're here today because the path of least resistance is rarely the path of wisdom.

"If a business is built on misleading users on data exploitation, on choices that are no choices at all, then it does not deserve our praise. It deserves reform.

"We should not look away from the bigger picture. In a moment of rampant disinformation and conspiracy theories juiced by algorithms, we can no longer turn a blind eye to a theory of technology that says all engagement is good engagement, the longer the better, and all with the goal of collecting as much data as possible.

"Too many are still asking the question "How much can we get away with?" when they need to be asking "What are the consequences?

"What are the consequences of prioritizing conspiracy theories and violent incitement simply because of the high rates of engagement?

"What are the consequences of not just tolerating but rewarding content that undermines public trust in life-saving vaccinations?

Hmmm, this would not sit well with the outlook some folks here seem to have. Interesting. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 01, 2021, 10:08:30 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 01, 2021, 10:01:50 PM

Hmmm, this would not sit well with the outlook some folks here seem to have. Interesting.

actions speak louder then words

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 01, 2021, 10:09:58 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 01, 2021, 10:08:30 PM

actions speak louder then words

How do you mean in this context? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 01, 2021, 10:17:31 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 01, 2021, 10:09:58 PM

How do you mean in this context?

just mean that even though he feels justified the bottom line is its a violation of the 1st amendment to censor people for their opinions

thats ok their time is coming

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 01, 2021, 10:36:12 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 01, 2021, 10:17:31 PM

just mean that even though he feels justified the bottom line is its a violation of the 1st amendment to censor people for their opinions

thats ok their time is coming

It is many things. Possibly not good business. Alienating to many folks. An interesting step on the shifting tides of brand neutrality. 

But it ain't a violation of the first amendment. Perhaps it's against a sort of broad spirit of the most cited part of the amendment, but censoring people on a private platform is not a constitutional violation. It simply isn't. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 01, 2021, 11:03:18 PM

I could be censored here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 01, 2021, 11:47:53 PM

I'm censored all the time here.  Shrug.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 02, 2021, 01:05:59 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 01, 2021, 10:36:12 PM

It is many things. Possibly not good business. Alienating to many folks. An interesting step on the shifting tides of brand neutrality.

But it ain't a violation of the first amendment. Perhaps it's against a sort of broad spirit of the most cited part of the amendment, but censoring people on a private platform is not a constitutional violation. It simply isn't.

I have no problem with across the board censorship applied fairly to everyone but that is not the game they are playing

these chat services have become so big that they could be considered a utility like the phone company

the more they do this crap the closer they come to being regulated

I really dont understand why they are poking the bear

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 01:08:21 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 01, 2021, 11:47:53 PM

I'm censored all the time here.  Shrug.

Put that thing out you'll burn your fingers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 02, 2021, 04:55:21 AM

Google/FB/Twitter are the internet today. They are the public square. They have grown so pervasive and become so ingrained into the fabric of society and grown way beyond the “oh they’re private companies that can just do whatever they want” argument- that they need to be treated like public utilities. And in all cases 1st amendment rights ought to apply. 

You can think whatever you want of Donald Trump- but the fact that a bunch of unelected oligarchs in Silicon Valley could effectively just erase a President of the f**king United State from the Internet- is god damn FRIGHTENING. If they can do that to that guy- that can do that to anyone and for any reason.

I am 100000% against censorship in any form or fashion. People have the right to say whatever the hell they want. The idea that people out there actually believe that everyone has the right to never be offended is absolute lunacy. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 02, 2021, 04:59:28 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 01, 2021, 07:56:04 PM

https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/tim-cook-may-have-just-ended-facebook.html?fbclid=IwAR3m0FN6-uyb4Dpun-WG3dwac7xhDNHKcdn7_1wA-WvP0Jd7qNjQRVNnFXo (https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/tim-cook-may-have-just-ended-facebook.html?fbclid=IwAR3m0FN6-uyb4Dpun-WG3dwac7xhDNHKcdn7_1wA-WvP0Jd7qNjQRVNnFXo)

Apple CEO Tim Cook went on the offensive against Mark Zuckerberg and Facebook. Cook's speech seems to be a direct response to Facebook's recent attack on Apple, in which the world's largest social network took out full-page ads in several newspapers attacking Apple's new privacy changes.

But what's most fascinating is that Cook took direct aim at Facebook without ever mentioning the company by name.

Just check out the following excerpt:


"Technology does not need vast troves of personal data stitched together across dozens of websites and apps in order to succeed. Advertising existed and thrived for decades without it, and we're here today because the path of least resistance is rarely the path of wisdom.

"If a business is built on misleading users on data exploitation, on choices that are no choices at all, then it does not deserve our praise. It deserves reform.

"We should not look away from the bigger picture. In a moment of rampant disinformation and conspiracy theories juiced by algorithms, we can no longer turn a blind eye to a theory of technology that says all engagement is good engagement, the longer the better, and all with the goal of collecting as much data as possible.

"Too many are still asking the question "How much can we get away with?" when they need to be asking "What are the consequences?

"What are the consequences of prioritizing conspiracy theories and violent incitement simply because of the high rates of engagement?

"What are the consequences of not just tolerating but rewarding content that undermines public trust in life-saving vaccinations?

Tim Cook is a faggot. And I literally do not mean that in the homosexual derogatory way- I could give a shit less what he’s into or his sexual orientation. 

I mean it in the grade school talking bullshit with your friends way when one friend was being a little whiny bitch over nothing and one of your other friends would say to the whiner- quit being a faggot dude. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 06:17:11 AM

I think there are some restrictions on Free Speech that are needed, a few are obvious, and then the line gets grey.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 02, 2021, 07:13:21 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 06:17:11 AM

I think there are some restrictions on Free Speech that are needed, a few are obvious, and then the line gets grey.

The only restrictions on free speech imo- obviously direct threats of violence or harm on someone- or direct calls to go harm someone or break the law- maybe hate speech to a degree- but aside from that everything is wide open. Freedom of speech is a damn good thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 02, 2021, 07:17:20 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 02, 2021, 07:13:21 AM

The only restrictions on free speech imo- obviously direct threats of violence or harm on someone- or direct calls to go harm someone or break the law- maybe hate speech to a degree- but aside from that everything is wide open. Freedom of speech is a damn good thing.

some folks consider your opinion hate speech if you dont agree with them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 07:18:41 AM

The other one oft cited is screaming fire in a theater of course.

Calling for the armed takeover of government is illegal.

Conspiracy can be illegal.

But once you cross the line into this and that the grey starts.

In Germany, it is ILLEGAL to say publicly the Holocaust never happened.  Illegal.  You get torched with a Jewish space laser if you do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 07:32:07 AM

Blackwings Are Cadillac's Last Gasoline V-Series. Should We Mourn? (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35381408/cadillac-blackwing-last-gas-v-series/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1d0HLTOJfCUzW58swjT02vVtC_2b0PUSMEdqbJ1aNonh6kq9SbLjdSLFY)

The great reveal thingee was mundane IMHO.

The pace with which EVs "take over" is going to get interesting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 02, 2021, 07:41:09 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 07:18:41 AM

The other one oft cited is screaming fire in a theater of course.

Calling for the armed takeover of government is illegal.

Conspiracy can be illegal.

But once you cross the line into this and that the grey starts.

In Germany, it is ILLEGAL to say publicly the Holocaust never happened.  Illegal.  You get torched with a Jewish space laser if you do.

It should always be noted that the bolded point comes from a case in which a person distributing flyers that said people should resist being drafted into WWI could be convicted of espionage. The precedent has basically been taking to pieces. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 02, 2021, 07:42:09 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 02, 2021, 04:59:28 AM

Tim Cook is a faggot. And I literally do not mean that in the homosexual derogatory way- I could give a shit less what he’s into or his sexual orientation.

I mean it in the grade school talking bullshit with your friends way when one friend was being a little whiny bitch over nothing and one of your other friends would say to the whiner- quit being a faggot dude.

What an oddly gross post. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 02, 2021, 07:47:43 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 02, 2021, 01:05:59 AM

I have no problem with across the board censorship applied fairly to everyone but that is not the game they are playing

these chat services have become so big that they could be considered a utility like the phone company

the more they do this crap the closer they come to being regulated

I really dont understand why they are poking the bear

They're exercising free association. Down the road, it'll probably burn the other side. 

But it would be a nightmare to regulate. Just about impossible. And it would open up so many avenues for abuse. Actual first amendment abuse. For now, it strikes me as a case of the dog chasing the car. But if the dog catches the car, it's gonna actually have to figure out what to do. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 07:55:56 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 02, 2021, 04:59:28 AM

Tim Cook is a faggot. And I literally do not mean that in the homosexual derogatory way- I could give a shit less what he’s into or his sexual orientation.

I mean it in the grade school talking bullshit with your friends way when one friend was being a little whiny bitch over nothing and one of your other friends would say to the whiner- quit being a faggot dude.

These 2 things became linked and that's what makes it a slur.  So we don't use it anymore.  Because of this link.  It's called evolving.  Try it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 07:56:31 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 02, 2021, 07:13:21 AM

The only restrictions on free speech imo- obviously direct threats of violence or harm on someone- or direct calls to go harm someone or break the law- maybe hate speech to a degree- but aside from that everything is wide open. Freedom of speech is a damn good thing.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Evelyn Beatrice Hall 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 08:07:12 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 02, 2021, 04:55:21 AM

Google/FB/Twitter are the internet today. They are the public square. 

FB/Twitter doesn't seem hard to avoid at all.I did sign up for a GOOGLE e-mail account so I could post on You Tube.The Bastards then banned me - True Story.And didn't even have the common courtesy to respond to my inquiries as to why.Good thing I only used them to post.I've had a Hot Mail Accnt since '96 and nary a problem.Should be called Goonle

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 02, 2021, 08:08:31 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 02, 2021, 07:13:21 AM

The only restrictions on free speech imo- obviously direct threats of violence or harm on someone- or direct calls to go harm someone or break the law- maybe hate speech to a degree- but aside from that everything is wide open. Freedom of speech is a damn good thing.

It depends upon who gets to decide what is considered "hate speech" and what isn't. That is a very slippery slope. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 02, 2021, 08:10:09 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 02, 2021, 08:08:31 AM

It depends upon who gets to decide what is considered "hate speech" and what isn't. That is a very slippery slope.

Correct. 

The key part of free speech is that for it to be truly free, some of it is going to be disgusting and horrifying to a great many people. That's the beast and the bargain. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 08:10:38 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 07:55:56 AM

These 2 things became linked and that's what makes it a slur.  So we don't use it anymore.  Because of this link.  It's called evolving.  Try it.

Oh,yes evolving really does become you,the rest of should naturally follow suit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 02, 2021, 08:18:04 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 08:07:12 AM

FB/Twitter doesn't seem hard to avoid at all.I did sign up for a GOOGLE e-mail account so I could post on You Tube.The Bastards then banned me - True Story.And didn't even have the common courtesy to respond to my inquiries as to why.Good thing I only used them to post.I've had a Hot Mail Accnt since '96 and nary a problem.Should be called Goonle

I too have avoided social media. No Facebook, no Twitter nor Instagram or any of those other things. This forum is about as close as I get. And even here with what little I post, I seem to rile peoples feathers. I find it best to just read and keep most of my opinions to myself. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 08:27:18 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 07:18:41 AM

Conspiracy can be illegal.

Tell me why hasn't the Government prosecuted Finestein & her ilk who dumped their stock on que last February.My portfolio got pummeled after that - I effed up I trusted the wrong people.And Pelosi buys TESLA stock and miraculously Sleepy Joe plans to cut the EV Market some benefits.And of course the Hedge Fund/Robinhood scam last week - nothing smells there.If you've been a decent soul and played fair by the rules laid out I can clearly see why some one,some where is going to twist off in a big way and sadly it almost needs to happen

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 08:27:42 AM

A thing I find interesting, often, is I might correct someone's post, pointing out a clear error or maybe just providing some context, like the full quote.  

I then get assailed as being a "communist" or "right wing retard".  I don't mind, but I rarely get asked what I think about the topic.

Several posted a deeply flaw "tax analysis" meme of what happens to a person who gets a raise to $15 an hour.  When I note that isn't how tax brackets work, I get called a communist who wants $100 an hour.  No, I just prefer correct data and information.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 02, 2021, 08:28:44 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 02, 2021, 07:42:09 AM

What an oddly gross post.

This is exactly the kind of kid I was referring to. 

Cry me a river cupcake.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 08:30:01 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 08:27:18 AM

Tell me why hasn't the Government prosecuted Finestein & her ilk who dumped their stock on que last February.My portfolio got pummeled after that - I effed up I trusted the wrong people.And Pelosi buys TESLA stock and miraculously Sleepy Joe plans to cut the EV Market some benefits.And of course the Hedge Fund/Robinhood scam last week - nothing smells there.If you've been a decent soul and played fair by the rules laid out I can clearly see why some one,some where is going to twist off in a big way and sadly it almost needs to happen

I believe the preCOVID sales were investigated and there was insufficient evidence for any action.  As for Pelosi, it was:

1.  Almost certainly her husband.
2.  It was stock OPTIONS on TSLA bought Dec. 21.
3.  Everyone was aware Biden would try and push EVs well before that.

I don't think any of this would be a conspiracy of the type that is illegal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 08:30:55 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 02, 2021, 08:18:04 AM

I too have avoided social media. No Facebook, no Twitter nor Instagram or any of those other things. This forum is about as close as I get.Same-Same
And even here with what little I post, I seem to rile peoples feathers. I find it best to just read and keep most of my opinions to myself.Oh no,by all means let them have it most enjoy/agree with your slant

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 02, 2021, 08:31:01 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 08:27:42 AM

A thing I find interesting, often, is I might correct someone's post, pointing out a clear error or maybe just providing some context, like the full quote. 

I then get assailed as being a "communist" or "right wing retard".  I don't mind, but I rarely get asked what I think about the topic.

Several posted a deeply flaw "tax analysis" meme of what happens to a person who gets a raise to $15 an hour.  When I note that isn't how tax brackets work, I get called a communist who wants $100 an hour.  No, I just prefer correct data and information.

one of the biggest errors people make is thinking that getting a raise throwing them into a higher tax bracket will cause them to take home less money then before so I understand your comment

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 02, 2021, 08:34:32 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 07:55:56 AM

These 2 things became linked and that's what makes it a slur.  So we don't use it anymore.  Because of this link.  It's called evolving.  Try it.

Words have lost all of their meaning and intent matters. It’s only a slur if someone is using it in a derogatory way to demean or bully someone that is actually a homosexual.

Bullshitting with your friends as a joke like guys do and saying that- not derogatory.

Cry me a river you god damn cupcake.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 08:36:46 AM

[th]ax rate[/th] [th]Taxable income bracket[/th] [th]Tax owed[/th]
10%	$0 to $9,875	10% of taxable income
12%	$9,876 to $40,125	$987.50 plus 12% of the amount over $9,875

Single filers rates here, current.  If you make say $10 an hour, that's $20,000 a year on 50 weeks, and $15 an hour puts you around $30,000.The increase in your tax bracket is minimal, and I have included the standard deduction here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 08:43:21 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 08:30:01 AM

I believe the preCOVID sales were investigated and there was insufficient evidence for any action.Bull an independent looked into it and found plenty of grounds to move forward.There was only one guy in that bunch who was known to have been active in the Market every day.The rest of them certainly knew ahead of time.I don't have that interview I wish I had saved those articles but with everything going on..... 

As for Pelosi, it was:

1.  Almost certainly her husband.
2.  It was stock OPTIONS on TSLA bought Dec. 21.
3.  Everyone was aware Biden would try and push EVs well before that.
Maybe in democratic circles,either way it is clearly a conflict of interest.Pelosi is a pompous steaming pile and has already been caught bending rules and laws.As utee has said - "I weep for the future" and the shame of it is it all could have been avoided

I don't think any of this would be a conspiracy of the type that is illegal.Maybe that's the problem at one time it prolly was considered or at the very least should have been.Because we know husband/wife and best friends never go home or stop at the Tavern and discuss shop

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 08:51:35 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 07:55:56 AM

These 2 things became linked and that's what makes it a slur.  So we don't use it anymore.  Because of this link.  It's called evolving.  Try it.

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 02, 2021, 08:34:32 AM

Words have lost all of their meaning and intent matters. It’s only a slur if someone is using it in a derogatory way to demean or bully someone that is actually a homosexual.

Bullshitting with your friends as a joke like guys do and saying that- not derogatory.

Cry me a river you god damn cupcake.

Okay gentleman to your corners and lets have a fair fight,Good Luck

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 08:51:51 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 02, 2021, 08:34:32 AM

Words have lost all of their meaning and intent matters. It’s only a slur if someone is using it in a derogatory way to demean or bully someone that is actually a homosexual.

Bullshitting with your friends as a joke like guys do and saying that- not derogatory.

Cry me a river you god damn cupcake.

So your words, going by what you say here, are not at all concerned with how the receiver understands them? 
You should be a mime.
.
I'm amazed that you've deemed that words have lost all meaning.  I believe your words have lost all meaning, but not everyone's.  You refuse to evolve, and that makes you the cupcake.  The stubborn 3 year old who continues to piss and moan, expecting to get your way.  
Draw your line in the sand...as the bulk of humanity crosses it with impunity.  
.
I do love this, because the very people who refute evolution are the same ones acting like an ape.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 02, 2021, 08:53:16 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 02, 2021, 08:28:44 AM

This is exactly the kind of kid I was referring to.

Cry me a river cupcake.

Sigh. 

What I'm being is this thing, you've seen them around, it's called an adult. You know, the kind of person whose discourse isn't whining like a petulant kid on the schoolyard. The sort of person with a vocabulary that moves past misused slurs on the school bus. 

Now, I know, it offends the sensibilities of just so many to have to act like a grown up. You'll whine that I called what you said gross. High pitched whine too. Lord, the softness of folks these days. They cry up a river with their posts, but then when poked, they're the big strong boy on the playground. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 02, 2021, 09:01:02 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 02, 2021, 08:53:16 AM

Sigh.

What I'm being is this thing, you've seen them around, it's called an adult. You know, the kind of person whose discourse isn't whining like a petulant kid on the schoolyard. The sort of person with a vocabulary that moves past misused slurs on the school bus.

Now, I know, it offends the sensibilities of just so many to have to act like a grown up. You'll whine that I called what you said gross. High pitched whine too. Lord, the softness of folks these days. They cry up a river with their posts, but then when poked, they're the big strong boy on the playground.

we all have a child in us and we reflect it often

poo poo head

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 09:04:42 AM

I mentioned conspiracy as a kind of speech that CAN be illegal.  I wasn't referring to stock trading on inside information, which is illegal but for other reasons.

I'm not sure Nancy Pelosi could explain what a stock option is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 02, 2021, 09:07:49 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 02, 2021, 09:01:02 AM

we all have a child in us and we reflect it often

poo poo head

As a person who ate what seemed like a pound of M&Ms yesterday, I have no idea what you’re talking about. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 09:12:20 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 02, 2021, 08:53:16 AM

 Lord, the softness of folks these days. They cry up a river with their posts, but then when poked, they're the big strong boy on the playground.

https://youtu.be/95_DB6GgLQs?t=22

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 09:15:44 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 09:04:42 AM

I'm not sure Nancy Pelosi could explain what a stock option is.

Ya but her husband and Gavin keep her up to date

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 09:18:10 AM

I prefer discussing some current event topic than who was more offensive with their posts.

I can't be offended unless I allow it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: TyphonInc on February 02, 2021, 09:20:00 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 08:51:51 AM

So your words, going by what you say here, are not at all concerned with how the receiver understands them? 
You should be a mime.
.

Holy Flipping Mud Balls!

You have been on the opposite side of this discourse numerous times. Multiple posters have advised you to be careful with your words. To which you famously sneer that they have to grow up, and your "sorry not sorry" that your words offend others. And now here you are posting on the opposite side?!?!

Have you actually turned a leaf? and understand now how name calling and argumentative stances frustrates others? Or is this yet another example of Orange Asperger Man just arguing because he is addicted to arguing? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 02, 2021, 09:29:46 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 09:15:44 AM

Ya but her husband and Gavin keep her up to date

This is where it starts getting odd and fuzzy. Why would Gavin know? Why would she need to go beyond her venture capitalist husband? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 09:33:11 AM

I saw a meme that said:

"Marines will talk S to your face and defend you behind your back.  Civilians will do the opposite."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 09:37:40 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 02, 2021, 09:29:46 AM

This is where it starts getting odd and fuzzy. Why would Gavin know? Why would she need to go beyond her venture capitalist husband?

Sigh!Sarcasm,Provided Pelosi is clueless

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 02, 2021, 10:00:32 AM

silly of me obviously, but knowing the consequences of the public scrutiny, ....... why would Pelosi's husband do something like that?  Legal or illegal

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 02, 2021, 10:02:05 AM

similar to Nancy getting her hair done on camera during a lockdown

I suppose when you are above the law and obviously above the common man, it just doesn't matter

"F" em, I just do what I please

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 10:27:18 AM

Pelosi's husband is an investment guy, I imagine he buys and sells all the time.

Any of us could have bought TSLA call options in December once we realized Biden won.  I didn't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 10:31:32 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 02, 2021, 10:00:32 AM

silly of me obviously, but knowing the consequences of the public scrutiny, ....... why would Pelosi's husband do something like that?  Legal or illegal

Gleened on info the spouse brought home - certainly not out of the realm.Just too fookin' close to insider info

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 10:33:00 AM

What could Pelosi have known about Biden's plans that wasn't obvious to us all?

These are March calls as I recall.  Investors use calls and puts for all sorts of reasons.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 10:33:08 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 10:27:18 AM

Any of us could have bought TSLA call options in December once we realized Biden won.  I didn't.

Gonna have a talk with an agent of my mutual fund hopefully this week

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 10:39:33 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 10:33:00 AM

What could Pelosi have known about Biden's plans that wasn't obvious to us all?

These are March calls as I recall.  Investors use calls and puts for all sorts of reasons.

I couldn't prove it either way and even if I could it would fall on deaf ears - legally speaking.Again last Feb/March those who dumped their portfolios happened to be some of the same people who dumped before the 2008 housing crash.There were more than a few articles on this that I didn't cache - that's just not a coincidence.Got snow to shovel

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 10:41:55 AM

Quote from: TyphonInc on February 02, 2021, 09:20:00 AM

Holy Flipping Mud Balls!

You have been on the opposite side of this discourse numerous times. Multiple posters have advised you to be careful with your words. To which you famously sneer that they have to grow up, and your "sorry not sorry" that your words offend others. And now here you are posting on the opposite side?!?!

Have you actually turned a leaf? and understand now how name calling and argumentative stances frustrates others? Or is this yet another example of Orange Asperger Man just arguing because he is addicted to arguing?

Actually, from his post, it sounds like he doesn't even take the audience of his words into account.  I do, but then progress with what I'm saying because I feel it needs to be said.  

There is a difference.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 10:45:12 AM

So Pelosi doing some insider trading is the narrative to demonize the Dems now?  Mkay.  That's fun.  It's always something. 
.
It's interesting that during the primaries, Biden and Mayor Pete were the moderates, while Bernie and Warren were the far leftists.  But thanks to the infinite spin machine, whoever won is now a far leftist.  And Pelosi is the debbul.  
.
Rinse, repeat, yawn.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2021, 10:47:56 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 10:39:33 AM

I couldn't prove it either way and even if I could it would fall on deaf ears - legally speaking.Again last Feb/March those who dumped their portfolios happened to be some of the same people who dumped before the 2008 housing crash.There were more than a few articles on this that I didn't cache - that's just not a coincidence.Got snow to shovel

Those who dumped made a major mistake.

I know I'm only one guy, but I made 36 percent on my investments last year. Lots of people lost out on an opportunity to do that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 10:55:33 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 10:45:12 AM

So Pelosi doing some insider trading is the narrative to demonize the Dems now?  Mkay.  That's fun.  It's always something.
.

Just shut the hell up I'm refering to Corruption in general.I've pointed out before AIG/Wall Street Barons/Military Industrial Complex/Dick Cheney helping themselves to the national treasury pretty sure those idgits aren't registered Dems.Either way Main Street gets the snotty end of the knob

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 10:59:36 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2021, 10:47:56 AM

Those who dumped made a major mistake.

My picks are just recently climbing back into the ring.Many I know would have been better off

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 02, 2021, 11:04:15 AM

Pelosi has always been the debbul

but, carry on

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 02, 2021, 11:06:20 AM

my stocks did very well overall in 2020 - over 14%

best year in a long time.  I'm pretty conservative

the stocks are divided into groups. one group did a bit better than 30%.  Wish I would have have everything in that group, but....... what the heck

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 11:06:38 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 10:45:12 AM

So Pelosi doing some insider trading is the narrative to demonize the Dems now?  Mkay.  That's fun.  It's always something.
.
It's interesting that during the primaries, Biden and Mayor Pete were the moderates, while Bernie and Warren were the far leftists.  But thanks to the infinite spin machine, whoever won is now a far leftist.  And Pelosi is the debbul. 
.
Rinse, repeat, yawn.

That's almost as touching as "Old Yeller" you throw your darts but now the targets on your unscrupulous sad sacks and this is som how unjust - guess it depends on whose ox is getting gored

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 11:08:11 AM

Anyone could, and should, have made adjustments in their investments once it was clear Biden would be President.  I did, some.

Paul Pelosi has some serious wealth from investments, I'm sure he did the same.  It might be useful to see all the adjustments  he made, not just the news of this TSLA call purchase.  You could have bought Tesla call options just about randomly over the past 2-3 years and made out like a banshee.

I don't think that trade was illegal, and I suspect it's not based on any inside info.

But is spins politically.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: TyphonInc on February 02, 2021, 11:13:23 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 10:41:55 AM

Actually, from his post, it sounds like he doesn't even take the audience of his words into account.  I do, but then progress with what I'm saying because I feel it needs to be said. 

There is a difference.

Ahh, so one person is ignorant to their actions, the other is intentionally being an ass. Got it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 02, 2021, 11:21:03 AM

I'm going to visit my advisor sometime in the next month or so.

Tax time and trip to Texas time.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 02, 2021, 11:22:52 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 11:08:11 AM

Anyone could, and should, have made adjustments in their investments once it was clear Biden would be President.  I did, some.

Paul Pelosi has some serious wealth from investments, I'm sure he did the same.  It might be useful to see all the adjustments  he made, not just the news of this TSLA call purchase.  You could have bought Tesla call options just about randomly over the past 2-3 years and made out like a banshee.

I don't think that trade was illegal, and I suspect it's not based on any inside info.

But is spins politically.

when did you think it was clear?  after election day? Before, after the riot at the Capital, or after the inauguration?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 11:23:11 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 02, 2021, 11:06:20 AM

my stocks did very well overall in 2020 - over 14%

You get many Yuenglings

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 02, 2021, 11:27:06 AM

I might be able to retire someday

depends mostly on the daughters, not my investments

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 11:37:14 AM

I'm gonna have to put you/CD/BF on retainer for Market purposes.The same tactics I used at the Horse Track aren't making a dent

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 11:39:08 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 02, 2021, 11:22:52 AM

when did you think it was clear?  after election day? Before, after the riot at the Capital, or after the inauguration?

I thought it was clear when the Electoral College met, really before that.  I'd say around late November or so, I realized Biden would be the next President.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2021, 12:06:23 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 11:37:14 AM

I'm gonna have to put you/CD/BF on retainer for Market purposes.The same tactics I used at the Horse Track aren't making a dent

Call these guys. Best I've ever worked with.


Waddell & Reed | Taking Financial Planning Personally

 (https://www.waddell.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 02, 2021, 12:07:28 PM

do they have an office by the Horse Track?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2021, 12:08:26 PM

They are national. I still use the office up North.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 12:10:40 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 11:06:38 AM

That's almost as touching as "Old Yeller" you throw your darts but now the targets on your unscrupulous sad sacks and this is som how unjust - guess it depends on whose ox is getting gored

I have no affiliation with Pelosi.  I don't know much about her.  Why would I, I don't live in CA.  I'm certain she's not a demon as I'm certain that she's no cleaner than the other people with her in Congress.

She just has the target on her.  Like AOC does.  Another person I don't know much about, because I don't live in NYC.  

But it's funny to cast the moderate Biden as a radical, as the righty "commentator entertainment" channels do.  Imagine if an actual lefty radical had been elected!  The Capitol would probably have been burned to the ground, huh?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 12:12:53 PM

I need one of you to tell me where to put some small monthly amount for the next 17 years.
Half safe, half risky.
Or all of it in a mostly-safe place.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 02, 2021, 12:16:07 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 12:12:53 PM

I need one of you to tell me where to put some small monthly amount for the next 17 years.
Half safe, half risky.
Or all of it in a mostly-safe place.

gold

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 02, 2021, 12:17:19 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 12:10:40 PM

I have no affiliation with Pelosi.  I don't know much about her.  Why would I, I don't live in CA.  I'm certain she's not a demon as I'm certain that she's no cleaner than the other people with her in Congress.

She just has the target on her.  Like AOC does.  Another person I don't know much about, because I don't live in NYC. 

But it's funny to cast the moderate Biden as a radical, as the righty "commentator entertainment" channels do.  Imagine if an actual lefty radical had been elected!  The Capitol would probably have been burned to the ground, huh?

do you really think Biden calls the shots

Biden will be as left as the left want him to be

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 12:18:41 PM

If I had 17 years, and know I wouldn't need the funds barring a major calamity, I'd be pretty adventurous with the money, XLK is a decent place for half of it anyway.

I might dial back some on the other half, but I'd probably split it between a health care ETF and a dividend ETF, I broker with Schwab, so I'd use theirs, but any of the others should be fine too.

I would avoid the funds that reinvest your monies according to your retirement age, I think they are gimmmicks.  BUT, I would change the above as that 17 years became 5 years.

Rebalancing my portfolio is where most of my energy goes.  I was lucky enough to buy quite a bit of Apple a while back  and the runup made it into too large a percentage, so I was unlucky enough to sell part of it, and now it has run up again.  Anything I might need in 5-7 years is liquid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 12:19:41 PM

As for how liberal Biden is, or Harris might be, it doesn't matter, much, as the Senate is where legislation will be decided.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 12:21:40 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 02, 2021, 12:17:19 PM

do you really think Biden calls the shots

Biden will be as left as the left want him to be

That is a lovely narrative.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 12:22:17 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 12:19:41 PM

As for how liberal Biden is, or Harris might be, it doesn't matter, much, as the Senate is where legislation will be decided.

Agreed.  Is there a worse person on the planet than the turtle from Kentucky?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 02, 2021, 12:22:30 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 12:19:41 PM

As for how liberal Biden is, or Harris might be, it doesn't matter, much, as the Senate is where legislation will be decided.

So the 43 executive orders dont mean anything?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 12:22:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 12:18:41 PM

If I had 17 years, and know I wouldn't need the funds barring a major calamity, I'd be pretty adventurous with the money, XLK is a decent place for half of it anyway.

I might dial back some on the other half, but I'd probably split it between a health care ETF and a dividend ETF, I broker with Schwab, so I'd use theirs, but any of the others should be fine too.

I would avoid the funds that reinvest your monies according to your retirement age, I think they are gimmmicks.  BUT, I would change the above as that 17 years became 5 years.

Rebalancing my portfolio is where most of my energy goes.  I was lucky enough to buy quite a bit of Apple a while back  and the runup made it into too large a percentage, so I was unlucky enough to sell part of it, and now it has run up again.  Anything I might need in 5-7 years is liquid.

I don't know what any of this means.  And remember, I said a small, monthly amount.  Small.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 12:23:40 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 02, 2021, 12:22:30 PM

So the 43 executive orders dont mean anything?

It took that many to correct 4 years of a game-show host being in charge.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 12:23:45 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 02, 2021, 12:22:30 PM

So the 43 executive orders dont mean anything?

Read what I stated, it doesn't matter much, and really most of those EOs were for show, imagery, not substance.  One or two has some impact which won't be that great.

Legislation is where major changes happen that are lasting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 02, 2021, 12:23:51 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 12:22:17 PM

Agreed.  Is there a worse person on the planet than the turtle from Kentucky?

yep she runs the House

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 12:24:19 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 12:23:40 PM

It took that many to correct 4 years of a game-show host being in charge. 

If you think those EOs corrected much, well, I disagree.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2021, 12:25:48 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 12:22:53 PM

I don't know what any of this means.  And remember, I said a small, monthly amount.  Small. 

How small, and will it increase over time? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 12:25:59 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 02, 2021, 12:23:51 PM

yep she runs the House

You can take the worst 10 Dems if you just get rid of McConnell.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 12:26:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 12:24:19 PM

If you think those EOs corrected much, well, I disagree. 

I'm just jousting and parrying.  No content to see here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 12:27:40 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2021, 12:25:48 PM

How small, and will it increase over time?

Idk and.....idk.  I'm maxed out at my salary level, need to get a master's to hop over.  I'm not going to learn anything unless I get it in something interesting.  Educational leadership makes me want to hurl.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 02, 2021, 12:28:46 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 12:25:59 PM

You can take the worst 10 Dems if you just get rid of McConnell. 

His state republicans have soured on him as well

His popularity polls are way down from last year

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 02, 2021, 12:31:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 09:18:10 AM

I prefer discussing some current event topic than who was more offensive with their posts.

I can't be offended unless I allow it.

I coined a phrase...

"Offense can never be given; it can only be taken."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 12:35:29 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 12:25:59 PM

You can take the worst 10 Dems if you just get rid of McConnell. 

I have determined over my long long life (so far) that getting rid of a bad one just means another one just as bad pops up.  It's the nature of the position, I think.

People focus - usually - on how bad the guy on the other side of the aisle is and make excuses for their guy.  We're stuck voting for the LOTE in most cases, and it's just easier to decide "I'm Dem or Rep" and vote that way and criticize the other side relentlessly.

I dislike them all, maybe there is an exception somewhere I don't know anything about, and I suspect some of the FNGs are OK NOW, but if they stay around ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2021, 12:38:33 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 12:27:40 PM

Idk and.....idk.  I'm maxed out at my salary level, need to get a master's to hop over.  I'm not going to learn anything unless I get it in something interesting.  Educational leadership makes me want to hurl.

If you can do $500/month, I'd go with a Roth IRA. The contributions are not tax deductible, but when you start drawing at 59.5, the income is tax free. Max yearly contribution is $6000, and goes to $7000 when you hit 50.

Your total investment will be $102,500. 


(https://i.imgur.com/CRl3r3T.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 02, 2021, 12:42:38 PM

:06:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/30821045/school-plan-ea-sports-do-college-football

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 02, 2021, 12:45:40 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 12:22:53 PM

I don't know what any of this means.  And remember, I said a small, monthly amount.  Small. 

There are funds called "ETF" (exchange traded funds) or "Index Funds" which attempt rather than actively manage and "pick" stocks in the fund, try to match the broad-based sectors of an economy, or in the case of some of the big Index funds, try to match the S&P 500 index as a whole. 

Generally they're very safe funds due to diversification, and also lower in fees than most of the actively-managed mutual funds. They're great for passive investors who don't know what they're doing--and possibly better than the returns of active investors who think they know what they're doing lol.

XLK is a fund which attempts to be a broad-based technology sector specific fund. So if you think technology is going to be a generally bull market over the next 17 years (duh!), it's probably a good sort of fund to look at. XLK of course is the stock ticker symbol for that fund. 

CD also suggested a health-care sector ETF, which again is assuming that health care in general is going to be a bull market or at least a stable market as the baby boomers retire and become old folks. Probably pretty safe place, with upside. 

Finally, he suggested a dividend ETF. Most people think that you make money in stocks by the price going up and lose it by the price going down. That's somewhat true in the "hot name" stocks, but a lot of giant companies reward their shareholders via dividends instead. The companies are large and stable and profitable, and instead of growth they use those profits to pay their owners [shareholders] a quarterly dividend. A dividend ETF will retain and reinvest those dividend payments, which is how your portfolio grows. This would be likely the safest of the three options, but with the least upside.

So you diversify your investment into growth (tech ETF), potential growth (health care ETF), and stability (dividend ETF). 

Make sense?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 12:50:18 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 02, 2021, 12:07:28 PM

do they have an office by the Horse Track?

That right there is funny I don't care who the hell you are

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2021, 12:51:25 PM

Waddell & Reed has 5 offices in the Phoenix area.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 02, 2021, 12:54:57 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 02, 2021, 12:17:19 PM

do you really think Biden calls the shots

Biden will be as left as the left want him to be

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s640x640/144434732_10222223863019038_4381514511339989208_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=wuzCUKP_IA8AX_MAQsQ&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=7&oh=38bc92711efb45ea3fcf57f768e5d0cd&oe=603F39E8)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 12:56:27 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 12:22:17 PM

Agreed.  Is there a worse person on the planet than the turtle from Kentucky?

Leave him out of it

https://youtu.be/a8BOtEpUcX8?t=15

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 02, 2021, 12:56:33 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 12:12:53 PM

I need one of you to tell me where to put some small monthly amount for the next 17 years.
Half safe, half risky.
Or all of it in a mostly-safe place.

the state of Arizona doesn't have a very good pension or retirement plan?

No Teacher's union?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 02, 2021, 12:59:38 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2021, 12:38:33 PM

If you can do $500/month, I'd go with a Roth IRA. The contributions are not tax deductible, but when you start drawing at 59.5, the income is tax free. Max yearly contribution is $6000, and goes to $7000 when you hit 50.

Your total investment will be $102,500.


(https://i.imgur.com/CRl3r3T.png)

I know people who preach the voodoo of "You want to go regular IRA is you're in a lower tax bracket at the end as compared to now." It seems nice in theory, but I'm skeptical. Tax free growth across decades makes sent to me. 

Also, they don't let people at a certain income level get Roths, which is interesting in its own way. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 01:02:49 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2021, 12:06:23 PM

Call these guys. Best I've ever worked with.


Waddell & Reed | Taking Financial Planning Personally

 (https://www.waddell.com/)

Thank You kindly,maybe you can give me a heads up and we'll split the difference.If not perhaps the local Book can point me in the right direction

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2021, 01:03:15 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 02, 2021, 12:59:38 PM

I know people who preach the voodoo of "You want to go regular IRA is you're in a lower tax bracket at the end as compared to now." It seems nice in theory, but I'm skeptical. Tax free growth across decades makes sent to me.

Also, they don't let people at a certain income level get Roths, which is interesting in its own way.

There are ways around that. I still contribute.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 01:07:03 PM

ah

(https://i.imgur.com/LrihjUZ.png)  I mean aliases

Thought over like 120 K you couldn't contribute

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 02, 2021, 01:11:05 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 02, 2021, 11:22:52 AM

when did you think it was clear?  after election day? Before, after the riot at the Capital, or after the inauguration?

Actually 100 percent clear? At inauguration if you were thinking with the really fringy part of the brain.

Clear enough to base your stock bets on? The Saturday after election day when the thing got called. Those calls are built on data, so the losing side was going to have to be incredibly competent and coordinated and have a vast set of facts at its disposal. And it was a good bet that was not going to come together.

Whatever could've potentially turned that was gonna rock the markets enough that it wouldn't matter if you bought Tesla or not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 01:11:34 PM

If you file taxes as a single person, your Modified Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI) must be under $139,000 for the tax year 2020 and under $140,000 for the tax year 2021 to contribute to a Roth IRA, and if you're married and file jointly, your MAGI must be under $206,000 for the tax year 2020 and 208,000 for the tax year 2021. The maximum total annual contribution for all your IRAs combined is:

• $6,000 if you're under age 50
• $7,000 if you're age 50 or older

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2021, 01:13:51 PM

You can. It's called a Roth Conversion.

2021 Form 5498 (irs.gov) (https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f5498.pdf)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 02, 2021, 01:14:50 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2021, 01:03:15 PM

There are ways around that. I still contribute.

This is what I figure: If it's good enough the option isn't even extended to rich folks, but they find loopholes to do it anyway, probably should factor strongly into my retirement planning.

I think I have the option for a Roth 401k, but I might leave that pre-tax. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2021, 01:17:37 PM

Taxes will never again be as low as they are now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 01:19:42 PM

I did a Roth conversion years back before the market tanked, so I undid it, which is allowed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 02, 2021, 01:22:46 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2021, 01:13:51 PM

You can. It's called a Roth Conversion.

2021 Form 5498 (irs.gov) (https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f5498.pdf)

converting regular IRA to Roth IRA?

or is this something different?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 01:23:43 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 01:11:34 PM

If you file taxes as a single person, your Modified Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI) 

Aren't those the guys who followed the Star of Bethlehem to Jesus?Never figured them to dabble in the market

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2021, 01:29:14 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 02, 2021, 01:22:46 PM

converting regular IRA to Roth IRA?

or is this something different?

I have a traditional IRA (dummy account) that I contribute the $7K per year to. Then, my advisor transfers that money to the Roth. I then get form 5498, which essentially makes the contribution to be after tax.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 01:45:19 PM

Is that legal?I mean seems kind Mr Haneyish to me,NTTAWWT

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 01:48:07 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 01:45:19 PM

Is that legal?I mean seems kind Mr Haneyish to me,NTTAWWT

Using Nondeductible IRAs to Get Money Into a Roth (thebalance.com)

 (https://www.thebalance.com/using-non-deductible-iras-to-get-money-into-a-roth-ira-2388699#:~:text=Through the backdoor Roth IRA,it to a Roth IRA.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2021, 01:50:31 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 02, 2021, 01:45:19 PM

Is that legal?I mean seems kind Mr Haneyish to me,NTTAWWT

Yep, it's legal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on February 02, 2021, 02:00:37 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 02, 2021, 08:31:01 AM

one of the biggest errors people make is thinking that getting a raise throwing them into a higher tax bracket will cause them to take home less money then before so I understand your comment

May not have less take home pay, but could lose or have some deductions and credit reduce causing an increase in taxes.  Rare, but possible. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on February 02, 2021, 02:12:45 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2021, 01:17:37 PM

Taxes will never again be as low as they are now.

But it doesn't matter if tax rates go up, but you are in a lower income bracket.

I can't contribute to a Roth, but even if I could I wouldn't because I am fairly certain the money I am saving by putting my money in my 401k and getting the tax deduction is worth more than the taxes it will cost me when I withdraw it in retirement. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 02, 2021, 02:18:51 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on February 02, 2021, 12:45:40 PM

There are funds called "ETF" (exchange traded funds) or "Index Funds" which attempt rather than actively manage and "pick" stocks in the fund, try to match the broad-based sectors of an economy, or in the case of some of the big Index funds, try to match the S&P 500 index as a whole.

Generally they're very safe funds due to diversification, and also lower in fees than most of the actively-managed mutual funds. They're great for passive investors who don't know what they're doing--and possibly better than the returns of active investors who think they know what they're doing lol.

XLK is a fund which attempts to be a broad-based technology sector specific fund. So if you think technology is going to be a generally bull market over the next 17 years (duh!), it's probably a good sort of fund to look at. XLK of course is the stock ticker symbol for that fund.

CD also suggested a health-care sector ETF, which again is assuming that health care in general is going to be a bull market or at least a stable market as the baby boomers retire and become old folks. Probably pretty safe place, with upside.

Finally, he suggested a dividend ETF. Most people think that you make money in stocks by the price going up and lose it by the price going down. That's somewhat true in the "hot name" stocks, but a lot of giant companies reward their shareholders via dividends instead. The companies are large and stable and profitable, and instead of growth they use those profits to pay their owners [shareholders] a quarterly dividend. A dividend ETF will retain and reinvest those dividend payments, which is how your portfolio grows. This would be likely the safest of the three options, but with the least upside.

So you diversify your investment into growth (tech ETF), potential growth (health care ETF), and stability (dividend ETF).

Make sense?

be careful with ETFs as you can get regular or heavily leveraged

if you get heavily leveraged your gain or loss will be multiplied by at least 2

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Abba on February 02, 2021, 02:44:48 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on February 02, 2021, 02:12:45 PM

But it doesn't matter if tax rates go up, but you are in a lower income bracket.

I can't contribute to a Roth, but even if I could I wouldn't because I am fairly certain the money I am saving by putting my money in my 401k and getting the tax deduction is worth more than the taxes it will cost me when I withdraw it in retirement.

The reasoning I've heard for both is to just give yourself options for how to pull your money.  If you have a pension, 401K, and IRA, you can decide to pull from more from the 401K one year and more from IRA the next, depending on circumstances.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 02, 2021, 03:34:24 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on February 02, 2021, 02:12:45 PM

But it doesn't matter if tax rates go up, but you are in a lower income bracket.

I can't contribute to a Roth, but even if I could I wouldn't because I am fairly certain the money I am saving by putting my money in my 401k and getting the tax deduction is worth more than the taxes it will cost me when I withdraw it in retirement.

So I’m clear, by tax deduction, you mean an actual tax deduction, not just not paying taxes on the principal now, correct? (I’m but a humble goon who has taken the standard deduction to this point in life)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 02, 2021, 03:48:25 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on February 02, 2021, 02:12:45 PM

But it doesn't matter if tax rates go up, but you are in a lower income bracket.

I can't contribute to a Roth, but even if I could I wouldn't because I am fairly certain the money I am saving by putting my money in my 401k and getting the tax deduction is worth more than the taxes it will cost me when I withdraw it in retirement.

this is true for most

luckily I've put as much as possible into 401K for long enough that I may have the same income and be in the same tax bracket when I retire

so Roth for me now.  and I'll convert more to Roth upon retirement.  Then draw down the traditional IRA funds first before drawing the Roth funds

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 02, 2021, 03:56:21 PM

The more we go through this, the more I realize I’m not so knowledgeable as to the finer points of these tools. 

But I know I’m a hell of a saver and put money in long-term index funds, so at worst, I should do alright. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 04:03:33 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on February 02, 2021, 02:00:37 PM

May not have less take home pay, but could lose or have some deductions and credit reduce causing an increase in taxes.  Rare, but possible.

My favorite deduction is $250 for teachers, which I spend before the first day of school starts.  It's a joke.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2021, 04:05:10 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 02, 2021, 03:34:24 PM

So I’m clear, by tax deduction, you mean an actual tax deduction, not just not paying taxes on the principal now, correct? (I’m but a humble goon who has taken the standard deduction to this point in life)

When you contribute to a 401K or IRA, it is before taxes. The money you pull out later will be taxed at that time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 04:08:51 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 02, 2021, 12:56:33 PM

the state of Arizona doesn't have a very good pension or retirement plan?

No Teacher's union?

No real union, it's a right-to-work state. 
I can retire at 57/58 and get 70% of my highest 5-year average salary. 

I did an annuity a few years back, but didn't switch it over when I moved down to Phoenix, so that's just a little just sitting around.  And I have a year in FL that's another tiny pile of money sitting around. 

I'm not parting with $500/month, though, that's insane to me.  I was thinking half that, or less.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 04:10:01 PM

I could act like my neighbors and pool my tiny bits of money here and there and invest in some scratch-offs.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 04:14:32 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on February 02, 2021, 12:45:40 PM

So you diversify your investment into growth (tech ETF), potential growth (health care ETF), and stability (dividend ETF).

Make sense?

Yeah, I'm all about having some safe and some loose&fast diversification when it comes to this.....but I've never known enough to come to this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 04:14:58 PM

Quote from: ELA on February 02, 2021, 12:42:38 PM

:06:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/30821045/school-plan-ea-sports-do-college-football

This brings joy to my heart.....and I'll believe it when I see it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on February 02, 2021, 04:17:10 PM

Backdoor Roth backdoor Roth!

If you make too much for Roth ira.

Take an after tax dollar that you have.  In your pocket, savings, checking, wherever.  Open and Fund a Taxable IRA, try and do the max.  $6500 for us young pups, $7k for those who can catch up Ira rules.  Invest in cash.  Wait a few days for it to settle and then convert the account to the Roth IRA.  This is the 5498 form Badge mentioned.  You will pay tax on any gains, which will be a penny or two at most..  Now you are free to invest in whatever you want in the Roth without paying taxes on future withdrawals.

Do the same thing next year and every year.

It's when you have a bloated, longer term IRA that you convert to a Roth, that you get socked with a big tax bill on gains.  The backdoor method is a great punchbowl which I'm sure will be taken away.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 02, 2021, 04:54:10 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2021, 04:05:10 PM

When you contribute to a 401K or IRA, it is before taxes. The money you pull out later will be taxed at that time.

I know. But it was phrased as it is a deduction. As a person who in life has yet to take a deduction, I was trying to understand if what was described was considered as a deduction in this context, or if there were some other kind of deduction being taken.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 02, 2021, 06:13:00 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 02, 2021, 04:54:10 PM

I know. But it was phrased as it is a deduction. As a person who in life has yet to take a deduction, I was trying to understand if what was described was considered as a deduction in this context, or if there were some other kind of deduction being taken.

its simply deducted from income before tax

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 02, 2021, 06:26:21 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 04:08:51 PM

No real union, it's a right-to-work state. 
I can retire at 57/58 and get 70% of my highest 5-year average salary. 

I did an annuity a few years back, but didn't switch it over when I moved down to Phoenix, so that's just a little just sitting around.  And I have a year in FL that's another tiny pile of money sitting around. 

I'm not parting with $500/month, though, that's insane to me.  I was thinking half that, or less.

You don't a union, but you have a defined-benefit retirement plan. Okay then. I wonder who negotiated that?

Quote from: MarqHusker on February 02, 2021, 04:17:10 PM

Backdoor Roth backdoor Roth!

If you make too much for Roth ira.

Take an after tax dollar that you have.  In your pocket, savings, checking, wherever.  Open and Fund a Taxable IRA, try and do the max.  $6500 for us young pups, $7k for those who can catch up Ira rules.  Invest in cash.  Wait a few days for it to settle and then convert the account to the Roth IRA.  This is the 5498 form Badge mentioned.  You will pay tax on any gains, which will be a penny or two at most..  Now you are free to invest in whatever you want in the Roth without paying taxes on future withdrawals.

Do the same thing next year and every year.

It's when you have a bloated, longer term IRA that you convert to a Roth, that you get socked with a big tax bill on gains.  The backdoor method is a great punchbowl which I'm sure will be taken away.

Hmm... 


(https://i.imgur.com/GfhWRKh.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 07:33:04 PM

It's a good thing to gain some level of understanding of investments.  A really good thing, it can amount to hundreds of thousands over one's life, and I'm not talking about being able to time markets, just the basics.

Read "The Only INvestment Guide You'll Ever Need".  You need to know what an ETF is, and is not, what a fiduciary is, and why that's important, why annuities generally are as bad as time shares, why mutual funds generally don't outperform the market, etc.  I don't suggest individual stocks with anything less than $100 K.

(https://i.imgur.com/uRj4mpG.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 02, 2021, 07:40:42 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 02, 2021, 06:13:00 PM

its simply deducted from income before tax

That's what I figured, but the wording got me tripped up. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 02, 2021, 07:42:45 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 07:33:04 PM

It's a good thing to gain some level of understanding of investments.  A really good thing, it can amount to hundreds of thousands over one's life, and I'm not talking about being able to time markets, just the basics.

Read "The Only INvestment Guide You'll Ever Need".  You need to know what an ETF is, and is not, what a fiduciary is, and why that's important, why annuities generally are as bad as time shares, why mutual funds generally don't outperform the market, etc.  I don't suggest individual stocks with anything less than $100 K.

(https://i.imgur.com/uRj4mpG.png)

I've been told Common Sense on Mutual Funds: New Imperatives for the Intelligent Investor is a good one as well. (Well, at least one I need to read. I had a copy at on point, but damn if I know where it is)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 07:44:36 PM

There are a number of good books, you want to start without something light and understandable.

Starting with Howard Marks is not a good idea, even though his insights are brilliant, I think.

(https://i.imgur.com/eDTm9bv.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on February 02, 2021, 08:57:24 PM

Very intrigued by this thread lately.   The Bond Book by Annette Thau is the best book on bonds, treasuries, muni bonds,  zeroes, I Bonds etc.  Great basis for understanding yield/price curves and all of the tax treatment for these fixed income products. 

Intelligent Investor is an all-timer.  By Ben Graham.   70 years later I'd still give that to any person who is interested in understanding the fundamentals of investing for an average investor.

I give lectures on mutual funds and ETFs but really from the perspective of a manufacturer, operating, distribution and compliance perspective not for the investor.   Having said that you could do a lot worse than sticking to no more than 3-4 broadly diversified low cost equity and fixed income funds or ETFs.   Ill never name names.    I only play with individual stocks with shoebox money,  never anything serious.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 02, 2021, 09:32:44 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 02, 2021, 03:56:21 PM

The more we go through this, the more I realize I’m not so knowledgeable as to the finer points of these tools.

But I know I’m a hell of a saver and put money in long-term index funds, so at worst, I should do alright.

More than all right.  That is still the best formula there is! And I do this for a living

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2021, 09:32:56 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on February 02, 2021, 06:26:21 PM

You don't a union, but you have a defined-benefit retirement plan. Okay then. I wonder who negotiated that?
Hmm...

I don't know, but if a state decided to be the only one without it for teachers, that state wouldn't have any teachers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 03, 2021, 02:20:38 AM

Fun little vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WydftYRVZto (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WydftYRVZto)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 03, 2021, 02:23:39 AM

Surprised they were still doing this in '94.  I guess Sapp forgot his jersey?  Includes WV's best player ever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqlA6n9MLC8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqlA6n9MLC8)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2021, 06:44:26 AM

Quote from: MarqHusker on February 02, 2021, 08:57:24 PM

Very intrigued by this thread lately.  The Bond Book by Annette Thau is the best book on bonds, treasuries, muni bonds,  zeroes, I Bonds etc.  Great basis for understanding yield/price curves and all of the tax treatment for these fixed income products.

Intelligent Investor is an all-timer.  By Ben Graham.  70 years later I'd still give that to any person who is interested in understanding the fundamentals of investing for an average investor.

I think for a starter those books are too advanced, just my opinion.  A thing easily forgotten is how much terminology is used in various disciplines.  For example, a beginning investor could well have no idea what the term "Treasuries" is, or muni bonds, or yield curve, etc.

Something light and airy could be a better starting point, something with everyday analogies.

When Tobias wrote his first edition, inflation was raging, and he advised for example when something was on sale that you used to buy a lot of it, the price in a year would be 10% higher.  It was simple stuff like that, plus thoughts on stocks and bonds.  Back then, many mutual stock funds had loads, they were offered by folks like Merrill Lunch, the loads could be 5% or more, at the start, plus annual fees.  We didn't have discount brokers, my first stock trade had a $70 commission.

One trick I learned was dividend re3nvestment, a simple concept of course, mainly a way to avoid high commissions.

He updated his book years later.  I advise my kids to use ETFs.  And if you get a money manager, by all means make sure he's fiduciary.  

Years ago my then ex mother in law had me look over her portfolio that was being managed, I should say CHURNED.  Holy cow, it was a mess.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 03, 2021, 07:34:01 AM

I don't have any financial books. Only a financial advisor.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2021, 07:43:51 AM

I had one for three years after I retired.  I asked a lot of questions about why they did this and that.  It wasn't rocket science, and I've done better on my own, mostly because of some lucky picks.

They also saved me a bunch on taxes when I retired.  I was in a special situation that year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2021, 08:51:36 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 03, 2021, 07:34:01 AM

I don't have any financial books. Only a financial advisor.

yup, I let my guy read all the books and keep up on the ever changing market and tax code
my cousin's son, so I think I can trust him
sharp kid

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 03, 2021, 08:59:47 AM

3 important things. Financial advisor, accountant, attorney. Helps me sleep.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2021, 09:46:07 AM

my finances are too complex - Financial guy handles accounting

haven't needed attorney services since settling my father's estate 

try to not need to talk to attorneys

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 03, 2021, 11:46:26 AM

Has any one seen our new Secretary of Health and Human Services?1st they prop up a dementia patient to the highest office in the land.Then they find some out of work knuckle dragger from Barnum - Bailey's Freak Show that doesn't know whether to stand or squat to fill out his staff.I'm a patient man but c'mon.Why not appoint some one from Isis as the Secretary of Defense and Bernie Madoff to head the Treasury.I hope to God this is a farce or at least has been photo shopped I just might move to Canada - if they still take Americans










[font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif](https://i.imgur.com/D9BNUdb.png)[/font][/font][/font][/font][/color]

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2021, 11:56:57 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 03, 2021, 11:46:26 AM

Has any one seen our new Secretary of Health and Human Services?

Assistant, if that matters.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 03, 2021, 12:05:14 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 03, 2021, 11:46:26 AM

Has any one seen our new Secretary of Health and Human Services?1st they prop up a dementia patient to the highest office in the land.Then they find some out of work knuckle dragger from Barnum - Bailey's Freak Show that doesn't know whether to stand or squat to fill out his staff.I'm a patient man but c'mon.Why not appoint some one from Isis as the Secretary of Defense and Bernie Madoff to head the Treasury.I hope to God this is a farce or at least has been photo shopped I just might move to Canada - if they still take Americans










[font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif](https://i.imgur.com/D9BNUdb.png)[/font][/font][/font][/font][/color]

Way to keep it apolitical.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 03, 2021, 12:05:37 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 03, 2021, 08:59:47 AM

3 important things. Financial advisor, accountant, attorney. Helps me sleep.

My cushy gubmint job doesn't pay me enough money for these things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 03, 2021, 12:09:29 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 03, 2021, 12:05:37 PM

My cushy gubmint job doesn't pay me enough money for these things.

Never too late to make a career change.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 03, 2021, 12:12:20 PM

How much are you willing to invest?  If I can outsource the card production to (gulp) China and alter the linen fields-halving them and doubling inventory, we can get this thing really rolling!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 03, 2021, 12:21:01 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 03, 2021, 11:56:57 AM

Assistant, if that matters.

I hope it does

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 03, 2021, 12:30:31 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 03, 2021, 12:05:14 PM

Way to keep it apolitical.

Following the trail you blazed snoflake

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2021, 12:59:24 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 03, 2021, 12:05:37 PM

My cushy gubmint job doesn't pay me enough money for these things.

my Financial advisor doesn't charge for consultations or moving my money around....
the fees his firm (Thrivent) charge my account pay his salary
He even helped me amend my tax filing last year after receiving a dividend statement late
good kid
I even take my laptop with me and he helps me adjust my Fidelity 401K investments from work

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2021, 01:08:10 PM

2020 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray Z51 at Lightning Lap 2021 (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a35368145/2020-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-lightning-lap/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3CWrmL_uHygacnb7z1o05tQMWMO6NgrhpUsyXxQRI1rJ8oODf4d8jUcuk)

Midengine Vette much quicker around VIR.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2021, 01:09:25 PM

where's the Z06?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2021, 01:11:56 PM

that reminds me to talk to my advisor about the $30K I want to invest in a C6

while keeping $30K in reserve for each daughter's wedding should those events happen in the near future

need around $100K liquid and accessible 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 03, 2021, 01:16:51 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 03, 2021, 12:05:37 PM

My cushy gubmint job doesn't pay me enough money for these things.

Oh so you're falling on your sword for humanity - touching

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2021, 01:17:25 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 03, 2021, 01:09:25 PM

where's the Z06?

On the way, supposed to have a 5.5 L flat plane crank and cool sounds.


2022 Chevy Corvette Z06: What We Know So Far (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/corvette-z06#:~:text=The first mid-engine Corvette,cues and serious performance attributes.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 03, 2021, 01:18:14 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 03, 2021, 12:59:24 PM

the fees his firm (Thrivent) charge my account pay his salary

You're shyting me - I have a couple accts with them.Gotta tell you wasn't impressed when I jumped in with them - I took a beating - a year before 911 and that was @ 10% - I think

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 03, 2021, 01:19:54 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 03, 2021, 01:11:56 PM

that reminds me to talk to my advisor about the $30K I want to invest in a C6

while keeping $30K in reserve for each daughter's wedding should those events happen in the near future

need around $100K liquid and accessible

Start an investment account for that purpose. I can have money in my bank within 24 hours.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2021, 01:38:54 PM

yup, me too, sometimes with 4 or 5 hours

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2021, 01:39:54 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 03, 2021, 01:18:14 PM

You're shyting me - I have a couple accts with them.Gotta tell you wasn't impressed when I jumped in with them - I took a beating - a year before 911 and that was @ 10% - I think

I started with them back in the 80s.  AAL days.  They've been berry berry goood to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 03, 2021, 02:06:02 PM

Ya they merged with LB and became Thrivent - like to be thriving a little bit more

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 03, 2021, 02:07:44 PM

Interesting article about robinhood

https://slate.com/technology/2021/02/robinhood-gamestop-stock-business-model.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 03, 2021, 03:03:41 PM

GME is back down under $100...

Hope the redditors aren't holding this bag all the way down.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2021, 03:09:55 PM

ya just know that some of them are, and it's going to be very bad for those that do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2021, 03:18:38 PM

My investment aim each year is to cover what I take out.  Back in March that looked sketchy, but I stayed the course.  This turned out to be a good year investmentwise, and I'm pretty well into cash eq.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on February 03, 2021, 03:31:02 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 02, 2021, 03:34:24 PM

So I’m clear, by tax deduction, you mean an actual tax deduction, not just not paying taxes on the principal now, correct? (I’m but a humble goon who has taken the standard deduction to this point in life)

I do not pay taxes on what I am contributing to my 401k, but will when I withdraw the funds.

With a Roth IRA, you pay taxes on the money now, but will withdraw it and any earning on it tax free in the future. 

as an example, if I am in the 24% tax bracket and I put $1000 in my 401K, I will save $240 on my tax bill this year
If I put it in a Roth IRA, I will be paying the $240 right now.

So I am now retired and in the 12% tax bracket when I withdraw the $1000 from my 401K, I will have a tax bill of $120
If I withdraw from the Roth IRA the money I pay no taxes. 

In this example I saved $120 by putting it in my 401K instead of a Roth IRA, not accounting for the time value of money.

The issue comes when I withdraw the earnings on what I have contributed.  There is a point where the current tax savings may be lower than future tax savings.    The wider the gap between current tax rates and future tax rates the more favorable to get the current deduction.   There is also the time before retirement element.  The long the time between the current deduction and retirement the better it will be for a Roth IRA.

IOW one size does not fit all.  I am very near retirement and in a higher tax bracket, so my personal calculation says put in my 401K not a Roth

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on February 03, 2021, 03:35:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 02, 2021, 07:33:04 PM

It's a good thing to gain some level of understanding of investments.  A really good thing, it can amount to hundreds of thousands over one's life, and I'm not talking about being able to time markets, just the basics.

Read "The Only INvestment Guide You'll Ever Need".  You need to know what an ETF is, and is not, what a fiduciary is, and why that's important, why annuities generally are as bad as time shares, why mutual funds generally don't outperform the market, etc.  I don't suggest individual stocks with anything less than $100 K.

(https://i.imgur.com/uRj4mpG.png)

Too lazy to do the work. I let my wife who works for a major brokerage firm handle the what to invest in, while I do the calculation on how much to invest and what vehicle to use

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2021, 03:53:26 PM

Pro-Trump Attorney Lin Wood Faces Illegal Voting Investigation : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2021/02/02/963467966/pro-trump-election-conspiracist-lin-wood-under-investigation-for-illegal-voting)

Investigation into possible voter fraud in Georgia.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2021, 03:54:20 PM

I recommend the Tobias book for anyone interested in getting a first level understanding of investing and finance in general, it's not all about stocks and bonds.

It's very readable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2021, 04:07:51 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 03, 2021, 03:53:26 PM

Pro-Trump Attorney Lin Wood Faces Illegal Voting Investigation : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2021/02/02/963467966/pro-trump-election-conspiracist-lin-wood-under-investigation-for-illegal-voting)

Investigation into possible voter fraud in Georgia.

The devil went down to Georgia
He was lookin' for a soul to steal
He was in a bind
'Cause he was way behind
And he was willin' to make a deal

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2021, 04:17:35 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 03, 2021, 02:06:02 PM

Ya they merged with LB and became Thrivent - like to be thriving a little bit more

well, Thrivent performed at 13% last year compared to my Fidelity account at 14%

Fidelity has lower fees

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 03, 2021, 04:21:10 PM

Does Fidelity manage that or you personally?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 03, 2021, 04:25:16 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 03, 2021, 04:07:51 PM

The devil went down to Georgia

We may have the Devil up here in NE Ohio about 8 miles away from me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2021, 04:57:38 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 03, 2021, 04:21:10 PM

Does Fidelity manage that or you personally?

Fidelity is through my employer.  I manage it myself, well my cousin's son with Thrivent drives it on my laptop.

I also have the option to get help from Fidelity, I can call or use the internet.  But, no one sitting in an office I can visit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 03, 2021, 04:58:42 PM

Deleted my Facebook last night. I don't regret it one bit.

BTW I felt like abusing my body again, so I went to Popeyes for lunch. They have chocolate beignets. 0 out of 10, would not recommend.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2021, 05:01:15 PM

so, one outa 2 decisions ain't bad

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 03, 2021, 06:14:36 PM

I like Popeye's plain old spicy fried chicken on the bone, but it's definitely hit or miss with them regarding quality, promptness, attention to detail, general give a crap-ness, etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 03, 2021, 06:20:27 PM

I got some of the spicy fried chicken, as well as the spicy chicken sandwich again. The sandwich was meh this time, and I really liked it last time. 

The spicy chicken was pretty solid. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 03, 2021, 06:28:23 PM

The biggest problem with Popeye's Spicy Chicken Sandwich, is that... it isn't one.  It's a chicken sandwich with spicy mayo.  Which is a whole lot less interesting to me.

The only difference between their regular chicken sandwich, and the spicy chicken sandwich, is the different mayo.

I think it could be pretty great if they used the same seasoned fry batter that they do for the bone-in spicy chicken, but I'm guessing the sandwich patties are prepared offsite and shipped to the franchises from some central location. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on February 03, 2021, 08:06:41 PM

I had spicier chicken from the hot case at the local grocery store than I did at Popeye's.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 04, 2021, 03:02:30 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 03, 2021, 06:14:36 PM

I like Popeye's plain old spicy fried chicken on the bone, but it's definitely hit or miss with them regarding quality, promptness, attention to detail, general give a crap-ness, etc.

Hmm, maybe the shitty ones are those people who "should" be working fast food and the quality ones are of those who "should" have better jobs, huh?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 04, 2021, 08:30:34 AM

Basis for the above post:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 04, 2021, 08:52:00 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 03, 2021, 04:57:38 PM

Fidelity is through my employer.  I manage it myself, well my cousin's son with Thrivent drives it on my laptop.

I also have the option to get help from Fidelity, I can call or use the internet. But, no one sitting in an office I can visit

Good name for a Horse,I know how stocks are suppose to work - in a perfect world.I simply can't grasp what and when to buy/sell/move on a daily/weekly basis

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2021, 08:57:00 AM

I don't buy and sell on a weekly basis, I might trade once or twice a month.

I have a plan that is based on allocations of stock types, and I try and stay with that plan.  If one stock type appreciates in price a lot, I start selling it, and vice versa.

Balance grasshopper.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 04, 2021, 09:07:04 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 04, 2021, 03:02:30 AM

Hmm, maybe the shitty ones are those people who "should" be working fast food and the quality ones are of those who "should" have better jobs, huh?

Dry your eyes pumpkin maybe if some one was taught common sense at a tender age they'd realize most of the time good performance is tied to advancement.You do understand that you don't go to work for minimum wage one week and land on the Board of Directors of Amazon/Walmart the next?I worked at a GM Cleveland plant right out of H.S.,some segments thought that if they worked hard for a couple of months they were management material.Rather than reason what skills they needed to develop to get there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 04, 2021, 09:12:39 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 04, 2021, 08:57:00 AM

I don't buy and sell on a weekly basis, I might trade once or twice a month.

I have a plan that is based on allocations of stock types, and I try and stay with that plan.  If one stock type appreciates in price a lot, I start selling it, and vice versa.

Balance grasshopper.

Thank You OBE WAN,problem is(with me at least based on unfamiliarity)  how to recognize those opportunities before 99% of the investors play me like a cheap violin.

https://youtu.be/3BmRMqMIfwo?t=14

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2021, 09:19:38 AM

I don't look for "opportunities" with few exceptions.  I look for balance.

For example, I have any funds I expect to need for five years in cash (equivalents).  So, to keep that I can't leave my portfolio alone, a year goes by and I need to replenish the cash.  The next five year period I have invested in "safe" stocks (the term is misleading a bit).  The next five years is in somewhat more speculative stocks (and ETFs).

After that I can afford to be somewhat more speculative, I own a good bit of Apple for example, Amazon, Google, etc.  The problem is that these stocks have run up which means I should be selling to rebalance my portfolio, and I did sell some Apple, a move I now regret obviously, but whatever, I was getting way too much Apple stock, and still have too much, I'm over 10%.  I wanted to stay under 4% with any single investment.

And of course I take out cash each year to pay bills etc.  So, my main focus is simply allocations.  I have been off my model for a while now but I still have a heavy portion of cash eq.

If you are younger, you should be more aggressive relative to how many years you have before retirement.

I wouldn't buy a single stock with a portfolio under $100 K, even half a mil you can do fine with ETFs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 04, 2021, 09:39:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 04, 2021, 09:19:38 AM

I don't look for "opportunities" with few exceptions.  I look for balance.......

I wouldn't buy a single stock with a portfolio under $100 K, even half a mil you can do fine with ETFs.

Guess ETFs aren't for me,you are very shrewd/prudent/dialed in regarding this.I wouldn't be comfortable moving large sums(to me) electronically a couple of times a month.A man's got to know his limitations

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2021, 09:45:41 AM

I personally view ETFs as enormously useful investment tools.  They are cost efficient and provide for diversification without having multiple individual stocks.

I do spend a fair bit of time in a day looking at investments, I enjoy it.  

I think the key is to start early in life and save money in an IRA/401K/Roth for later.  And stay out of bad debt.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 04, 2021, 09:47:29 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 04, 2021, 09:12:39 AM

Thank You OBE WAN,problem is(with me at least based on unfamiliarity)  how to recognize those opportunities before 99% of the investors play me like a cheap violin.

https://youtu.be/3BmRMqMIfwo?t=14

I use a service called VectorVest to help spot opportunities

Its not cheap but has paid for itself many times over

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 04, 2021, 09:52:11 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 04, 2021, 09:45:41 AM

I do spend a fair bit of time in a day looking at investments, I enjoy it. 

You've got a gift - I find it imposing/intimidating

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2021, 09:54:03 AM

I don't view it as any kind of gift.  As I noted, for three years after retirement I used a fiduciary money manager.

I asked a LOT of questions.  It was useful for me learning what they were doing, and why, it's not rocket science.

I could have left it with them, it's my retirement fund, and done OK I'm sure.  But then I'd be so bored I'd probably have to write books and post all day on  some internet site.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 04, 2021, 10:06:11 AM

Some of the neater things about Vectorvest is its stock screening ability and the ability to use a stock screening formula in a look back to see what the results would have been had you invested this way in the past

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 04, 2021, 10:10:43 AM

The S&P 500 entered 1980 at 108 and closed 2020 at 3756

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 04, 2021, 10:37:48 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 04, 2021, 09:07:04 AM

Dry your eyes pumpkin maybe if some one was taught common sense at a tender age they'd realize most of the time good performance is tied to advancement.You do understand that you don't go to work for minimum wage one week and land on the Board of Directors of Amazon/Walmart the next?I worked at a GM Cleveland plant right out of H.S.,some segments thought that if they worked hard for a couple of months they were management material.Rather than reason what skills they needed to develop to get there

Nothing you say here has anything to do with my post.  Odd.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 04, 2021, 11:11:28 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 04, 2021, 10:37:48 AM

Nothing you say here has anything to do with my post.  Odd.

Off your meds again?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 04, 2021, 01:24:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 04, 2021, 09:54:03 AM

I could have left it with them, it's my retirement fund, and done OK I'm sure.  But then I'd be so bored I'd probably have to write books and post all day on  some internet site.

The Horror

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 04, 2021, 01:25:53 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 04, 2021, 11:11:28 AM

Off your meds again? 

You're just jealous the voices talk to him

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 04, 2021, 02:16:47 PM

sitting in on a Fidelity Investments Web Workshop currently

the first 15 minutes have been a waste, much too basic and for beginners 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 04, 2021, 03:13:19 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 04, 2021, 02:16:47 PM

 first 15 minutes have been a waste, much too basic and for beginners

Or for those rebuilding in a volatile market.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2021, 03:15:22 PM

This is why I loathe training videos and courses.  I can read, let me read, then I can skip to the good parts.

I just finished proof reading Book Two, that is a real chore.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 04, 2021, 03:17:50 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 04, 2021, 03:15:22 PM

This is why I loathe training videos and courses.  I can read, let me read, then I can skip to the good parts.

I just finished proof reading Book Two, that is a real chore.

Your novel?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 04, 2021, 03:23:55 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 04, 2021, 03:15:22 PM

This is why I loathe training videos and courses.  I can read, let me read, then I can skip to the good parts.

I just finished proof reading Book Two, that is a real chore.

I think my company is going to give me some kind of credit for watching such a thing, so I suppose that would at least be good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2021, 03:32:39 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 04, 2021, 03:17:50 PM

Your novel?

Yeah, the sequel.  I e published Book One, which doesn't amount to much, so I've submitted both to Pegasus now.  That likely won't amount to much either.  This one was 60,000 words.

I am nearing the end of Book 3.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2021, 07:24:03 PM

My new fancy monitor doesn't work.  I got the VGA adaptor today and eagerly hooked it up, no go.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 04, 2021, 07:43:16 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 04, 2021, 07:24:03 PM

My new fancy monitor doesn't work.  I got the VGA adaptor today and eagerly hooked it up, no go.

try googling this

someone else is bound to have the same problem

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 04, 2021, 07:55:33 PM

you might have to upgrade your video card to one with HDMI output

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 04, 2021, 08:03:16 PM

Here is an article I found on VGA to HDMI connection

https://www.exhibitedge.com/how-to-connect-your-vga-laptop-to-hdmi-monitor-on-the-show-floor/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 04, 2021, 10:53:50 PM

Stop trying to play an mp3 in your cassette deck!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2021, 08:38:38 AM

Adaptor did not work.  Going for new computer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 05, 2021, 08:55:40 AM

I really like my Surface.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2021, 09:22:34 AM

With how I use computers, I don't need much computing power or flexibility.  This Dell has worked fine for 6-7 years.  I need to find my Office CD here somewhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 05, 2021, 09:28:30 AM

Your new computer probably won't have a CD drive. Office is almost all cloud now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2021, 09:54:02 AM

Yeah, I was just looking at it, the CD/DVD is an extra $45.

My current system is fine, I may just return the monitor.  It was $180 at Costco for a 32" really good colors etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 05, 2021, 10:00:20 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 04, 2021, 07:24:03 PM

My new fancy monitor doesn't work. 

They slapped one of those on your ankle too?Ask OAM he's familiar with them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 05, 2021, 10:17:40 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 05, 2021, 08:38:38 AM

Adaptor did not work.  Going for new computer.

CD did you even read my posts

you need a converter not just an adaptor

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2021, 10:19:05 AM

Yeah, I saw it, I understand, a converter costs over $100.  Or I could change my graphics card.

Meh.  I'm too lazy.  A new Dell is under $600.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 05, 2021, 10:20:16 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 05, 2021, 10:19:05 AM

Yeah, I saw it, I understand, a converter costs over $100.  Or I could change my graphics card.

Meh.  I'm too lazy.  A new Dell is under $600.

I saw some listed at less then $50 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 05, 2021, 10:21:33 AM

However if your computer is over 7 years old it might be time for a new one

My office came on a thumb drive

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 05, 2021, 10:22:36 AM

Dell's support is very good

Thats where I'd go

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2021, 10:26:43 AM

I've had it a long time, more than 5 years, probably more than 7.  A new one is the price of three nice meals out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 05, 2021, 11:04:36 AM

CD I forgot the name of your 1st novel.How would I go about getting my mitts on it?Speaking of mitts spring traing isn't far off

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2021, 11:05:43 AM

can't spend money travelling - drinking Kirkland wine

do your part to keep the economy from crashing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2021, 11:07:57 AM

Rebel in a Cause: Book One - Kindle edition by Dyer, John. Literature & Fiction Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com. (https://www.amazon.com/Rebel-Cause-Book-John-Dyer-ebook/dp/B08KTN5HJV/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=rebel+in+a+cause+dyer&qid=1612541204&sr=8-1)

You can read it on any device, not just Kindle.  I fixed a number of typos .  It's $2.99, appreciate any feedback on it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 05, 2021, 11:09:44 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 05, 2021, 11:05:43 AM

can't spend money travelling - drinking Kirkland wine

do your part to keep the economy from crashing

Livers be damned full steam ahead

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 05, 2021, 11:16:37 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 05, 2021, 11:07:57 AM

Rebel in a Cause: Book One - Kindle edition by Dyer, John. Literature & Fiction Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com. (https://www.amazon.com/Rebel-Cause-Book-John-Dyer-ebook/dp/B08KTN5HJV/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=rebel+in+a+cause+dyer&qid=1612541204&sr=8-1)

You can read it on any device, not just Kindle.  I fixed a number of typos in it but can't seem to replace the book.  It's $2.99, appreciate any feedback on it. 

I've never done kindle how long does the 2.99 last for?I do have an Amazon acct just like leaning back in the recliner with the fire going and sipping a frothy grog whilst page flipping
P.S. I'm guessing no Print edition - or I could buy one from you directly

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2021, 11:19:01 AM

You don't need Kindle, and the purchase is permanent.  I don't think anyone who has read it has Kindle.

I'm looking at a paperback edition, but thought I'd give Pegasus a chance to go with it.  Might hear from them in a month, probably a turn down of course.

I think Book Two is better, you get better by doing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 05, 2021, 11:26:31 AM

I read it on Kindle... 

I always thought I'd prefer physical books to a Kindle, until I got a Kindle. Now I can't imagine going back. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2021, 11:28:23 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on February 05, 2021, 11:26:31 AM

I read it on Kindle...

I always thought I'd prefer physical books to a Kindle, until I got a Kindle. Now I can't imagine going back.

Really appreciated your comments, tried to add some conflict to Book Two, it's not that easy I found.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2021, 11:45:07 AM

I figured out how to do the paperback.  It's in review, priced at $8.99 on Amazon, should be up in a day or so, if you like paperbacks.

And it's the mostly typo fixed version, I hope.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 05, 2021, 02:34:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 05, 2021, 10:19:05 AM

Yeah, I saw it, I understand, a converter costs over $100.  Or I could change my graphics card.

Meh.  I'm too lazy.  A new Dell is under $600.

Dude, you're getting a Dell!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2021, 02:42:01 PM

My old one is a Dell Inspiron 660 bought September 2013.  Maybe I'm due for a new one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 05, 2021, 03:00:03 PM

I've got an old Dell Optiplex from maybe 2010 that I'm running Linux on just for fun.  I have it set up as a media server for the household.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2021, 08:49:30 PM

in other news..............

just got a shout out from Burnt Eyes on FB messenger

apparently he's doing well in Tennessee

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2021, 07:33:58 AM

So, my book is now available on Amazon in paperback.  I have no clue how it looks, I need to order one for me.

It's $8.99 because of printing costs.  Duh.

They have a pretty neat setup there but if you want to market your book, good luck, way too expensive, so I schill around here.

Rebel in a Cause: Book One: Dyer, John: 9798705217243: Amazon.com: Books (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08W3Y3GDM/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=rebel+in+a+cause+dyer&qid=1612616057&sr=8-3)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2021, 07:53:13 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 05, 2021, 08:49:30 PM

in other news..............

just got a shout out from Burnt Eyes on FB messenger

apparently he's doing well in Tennessee

I talked to him about a month ago, on my birthday. He's doing well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 06, 2021, 08:01:11 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 05, 2021, 08:49:30 PM

in other news..............

just got a shout out from Burnt Eyes on FB messenger

apparently he's doing well in Tennessee

Of course he's not a Vols Fan(sorry Drew)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 06, 2021, 09:23:07 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2021, 07:53:13 AM

I talked to him about a month ago, on my birthday. He's doing well.

yes, this is good to hear
told me he's doing as well as maybe he ever has

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 06, 2021, 10:30:42 AM

Finally found the Kirkland Signature Oakville Cab... Wife approved.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2021, 10:36:00 AM

They have a Stag's Leap Cab here also.  I highly recommend giving that some time, at least 3 months.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 06, 2021, 08:11:55 PM

The saga of the electric fireplace continues. We got the new one, and it's much prettier and modern looking. Unfortunately, it also made a weird ticking noise. I realized the noise went away if I pushed on the bottom of the unit, so I wedged a box of soap under it. Not as pretty, but I'm done fooling with it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 06, 2021, 10:13:35 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on February 06, 2021, 08:11:55 PM

The saga of the electric fireplace continues. We got the new one, and it's much prettier and modern looking. Unfortunately, it also made a weird ticking noise. I realized the noise went away if I pushed on the bottom of the unit, so I wedged a box of soap under it. Not as pretty, but I'm done fooling with it.

:smiley_confused1:

Sounds like a fire hazard.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on February 07, 2021, 10:17:56 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 05, 2021, 11:45:07 AM

I figured out how to do the paperback.  It's in review, priced at $8.99 on Amazon, should be up in a day or so, if you like paperbacks.

And it's the mostly typo fixed version, I hope.

https://youtu.be/SepZDSkY4Ro

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 07, 2021, 11:20:36 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on February 06, 2021, 10:13:35 PM

:smiley_confused1:

Sounds like a fire hazard.

Probably. Though the heat comes out the top and the box is on the bottom, so hopefully we don't catch on fire.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 07, 2021, 11:54:18 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on February 07, 2021, 11:20:36 AM

Probably. Though the heat comes out the top and the box is on the bottom, so hopefully we don't catch on fire.

Not from heat... From sparks.

Have it looked at, dude. Weird ticking noises from high current electrical equipment shouldn't be fixed by shoving something under it...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 07, 2021, 11:56:51 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on February 06, 2021, 08:11:55 PM

The saga of the electric fireplace continues. We got the new one, and it's much prettier and modern looking. Unfortunately, it also made a weird ticking noise. I realized the noise went away if I pushed on the bottom of the unit, so I wedged a box of soap under it. Not as pretty, but I'm done fooling with it.

aren't you glad you use dial?Don't you wish everyone would?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 07, 2021, 12:00:50 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on February 07, 2021, 11:20:36 AM

Probably. Though the heat comes out the top and the box is on the bottom, so hopefully we don't catch on fire.

well heat rises but if you've seen sparks send it packing or at least make sure the smoke/fire alarm works

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 07, 2021, 12:01:56 PM

Quote from: bwarbiany on February 07, 2021, 11:54:18 AM

Not from heat... From sparks.

Have it looked at, dude. Weird ticking noises from high current electrical equipment shouldn't be fixed by shoving something under it...

All facts. I can't really figure it out, though I don't think it's actually the motor making the noise but rather the rotating "flames."  It sounds they are brushing something as they turn.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 07, 2021, 12:02:35 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 07, 2021, 11:56:51 AM

aren't you glad you use dial?Don't you wish everyone would?

I use Irish Spring for all my electrical repairs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 07, 2021, 12:06:35 PM

That use to be Dial's signature slogan in commercials but a dial is an electrical/mechanical instrument

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 07, 2021, 12:36:26 PM

still not a fan of "fake" fires

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 07, 2021, 12:56:12 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 07, 2021, 12:36:26 PM

still not a fan of "fake" fires

I wouldn't say I'm a fan of fake fires but it is pretty and keeps the room pleasantly warm. Not trying to build a real fireplace in our bedroom.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 07, 2021, 03:09:59 PM

my daughter would probably prefer something pretty

She lives in my basement, it gets cool down there...

I bought her the best electric heater as rated by the internet a few years ago

I'm more about function and price.

She can certainly upgrade on her dime

there's no wondering why I'm single

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 07, 2021, 03:43:53 PM

FF,a buddy and I installed a ventless gas fireplace in the basement in 2009.Zero problems - he ran the actual gas line from the main over the ceiling and down comes on a few minutes an hour 10-15 but you can adjust as you like.Defintely removes dampness and chill

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 07, 2021, 03:56:52 PM

no gas at my house.  All electric

heat pump went out a week ago.  Bad reversing valve.

don't think the heat pump would help much this week with an expected high of 9 above for the next 10 days

electric furnace works great, hopefully all kilowatts from windmills, but doubtful

MidAmerican Energy, a subsidiary of Berkshire Hathaway, owns and operates George Neal South Generating Station six miles outside of Sioux City, IA along the Missouri River. The station has a single 640 MW coal-fired unit that began operating in 1979. Coal ash from the station is disposed of in a 32-acre CCR landfill.

I can see this plant from my house.  Tomorrow morning when 9 below zero, the vapor from the smokestack will be impressive

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 07, 2021, 04:18:56 PM

No NG - WTF,someone has a monopoly.Heat pumps are great in the mid atlantic states and south were they can be reversed for AC puposes.In the great white north spring/fall - i have one but use for back up in case the gas furnace goes down or inturruption in service.Hopefully your unit is fixed,do you have a gas option?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 07, 2021, 05:05:18 PM

my heat pump works in the summer as well

my other option would be a 500 gallon propane tank in the yard like many of my neighbors

all electric seems to work fine

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 07, 2021, 07:15:09 PM

All heat pumps work in the summer.  

We have two "water sourced" heat pumps which seem very efficient.  They exchange heat into or out of building water.  The water exit cables get warm or cool depending on the season.

I had to replace one after we moved in, not really cheap things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on February 07, 2021, 11:15:35 PM

Went out to dinner tonight for oldest's 12th.  Really pleasant dining experience.  I expected C team performance, Sunday evening +plus SB.    My wife and I were thrilled with her non- chain Italian selection.   

Certainly some confirmation bias but scanning the dining room, people who really don't care about the Super Bowl really don't look like they care about the Super Bowl.  I guess that includes us.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 08, 2021, 07:56:59 AM

I watched the 3rd quarter.  I've probably seen about 1.5 of the last 4 SBs.  
I wonder what causes our interest to wane with some sports and remain strong with others.  It hasn't been a conscious decision.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2021, 08:05:32 AM

The wife and I were watching Law and Order reruns after dinner.  I mentioned to her the Super Bowl was on, I think.  

That is as close as I got.  I lost interest in the NFL a long time ago.  I have narrowed my sports watching to CFB, MLB, and Australian Rules Football.

And curling, I forgot curling.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 08, 2021, 09:17:47 AM

What about Darts?Lifting those pints all evening can be taxing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2021, 10:25:23 AM

My paperback is up to THREE (3) sales thus far!!!

(All friends on FB.)

(All female oddly enough, I warned them it's mostly a guy book.)

Neither of my own children have read it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 08, 2021, 10:36:07 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 08, 2021, 07:56:59 AM

I watched the 3rd quarter.  I've probably seen about 1.5 of the last 4 SBs. 
I wonder what causes our interest to wane with some sports and remain strong with others.  It hasn't been a conscious decision. 

I'm always interested in the Superbowl when my favorite team is involved, and I'm always less interested when it's not.

No different than college football.  If my team were involved in the CFP, I'd be interested.  It has not been, and I've watched maybe 6 quarters-- TOTAL-- of all the CFP games, since the CFP began.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 08, 2021, 10:44:37 AM

My "interest" in non-Purdue sports is obviously much more casual. I'll turn on other CFB/NCAABB games, NFL games, or golf, but unless it's a matchup I'm interested in it's usually relegated to "it's on the TV but I'm barely paying attention" status. 

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 08, 2021, 07:56:59 AM

I watched the 3rd quarter.  I've probably seen about 1.5 of the last 4 SBs. 
I wonder what causes our interest to wane with some sports and remain strong with others.  It hasn't been a conscious decision. 

I've found that the older I get, the more I realize that by reducing the number of things I care about, it makes my life a lot more pleasant. 

I used to spend all Saturday watching college football. I'd root for Purdue and against IU/ND. I'd often have a team in other games that I'd prefer to win, and although I didn't really "care" to any large degree, I'd still get disappointed if they lost. 

I don't have time for all that nonsense any more. And it didn't even really improve my life. While a Purdue win makes me genuinely happy, an IU loss or ND loss I didn't actually care about, but an IU win or ND win disappointed me. 

It's all about reducing desire to live a more even life... That's a zen thing, right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 08, 2021, 11:08:51 AM

The only good thing about last nights game was TB winning

The commercials were a dud

The half time show was the worst one yet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 08, 2021, 11:37:58 AM

Quote from: bwarbiany on February 08, 2021, 10:44:37 AM

It's all about reducing desire to live a more even life... That's a zen thing, right?

hell, if it wasn't for "caring" about meaningless stuff like sports on TV and my own crappy golf game, I'd have very little to "care" about and give my life any meaning.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 08, 2021, 11:46:43 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 08, 2021, 11:37:58 AM

hell, if it wasn't for "caring" about meaningless stuff like sports on TV and my own crappy golf game, I'd have very little to "care" about and give my life any meaning.

Your kids are pretty much grown, it makes a difference.

There was a point, up until as recently a 4 years ago, when I hadn't missed a UT home football game since 1988.  So something like 27 or 28 years I guess.

But now, not only have I missed attending most home games over the past 4 years,  but I'm even missing them live on TV, due to other commitments for my kids like soccer games, football games, scouting campouts, etc.

And I'm perfectly happy about that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 08, 2021, 11:49:08 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 08, 2021, 11:46:43 AM

Your kids are pretty much grown, it makes a difference.

There was a point, up until as recently a 4 years ago, when I hadn't missed a UT home football game since 1988.  So something like 27 or 28 years I guess.

But now, not only have I missed attending most home games over the past 4 years,  but I'm even missing them live on TV, due to other commitments for my kids like soccer games, football games, scouting campouts, etc.

And I'm perfectly happy about that.

theres little hope for you

youve gone over to the dark side

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 08, 2021, 11:52:47 AM

I love watching my kids play sports and getting to go on scouting campouts and stuff with them.  This bit isn't going to last forever.  My 13yo daughter is already starting to shift into wanting to do her own thing with her friends, which is fine and natural.  But it just makes me hold on to the moments she's willing to spend with me, even more.

We've taken them to football games for both UT and TAMU, and they enjoy those too.  But we can't make every game anymore, just too much other stuff going on.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2021, 12:09:47 PM

If I watch say Boston College playing Virginia, I don't care who wins, I try and look at the MLB or another player to see how they react.  I'm still puzzled by how they read the offensive alignments, often, to me, the offensive presnap looks the same as nearly every other play.

It's clear the D reacts to a player who motions.  I infer the QB can read that reaction and figure what sort of defense they are in, etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 08, 2021, 12:59:57 PM

yup, I'll still watch Boston College vs Virginny, just because I enjoy watching football

I enjoy the competition of live sports

the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat

kids out there trying to make plays and win a contest

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 08, 2021, 01:21:21 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 08, 2021, 12:59:57 PM

yup, I'll still watch Boston College vs Virginny, just because I enjoy watching football

I enjoy the competition of live sports

the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat

kids out there trying to make plays and win a contest

Oh I like it too, it's just not a priority in my life these days.

Perhaps that'll change, or perhaps I'll replace kid duties with something non-sports-watching related when it comes to that.  I'm still about half-finished with two different screenplays I started writing many years ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2021, 01:23:15 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 08, 2021, 01:21:21 PM

Oh I like it too, it's just not a priority in my life these days.

Perhaps that'll change, or perhaps I'll replace kid duties with something non-sports-watching related when it comes to that.  I'm still about half-finished with two different screenplays I started writing many years ago.

Are you gonna cast yourself with Aunt Becky?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2021, 01:35:13 PM

The Stick-Shift 668-HP CT5-V Blackwing And 472-HP Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Are Cadillac's Last Hurrah For Loud Gasoline Fury (jalopnik.com) (https://jalopnik.com/the-stick-shift-668-hp-ct5-v-blackwing-and-472-hp-cadil-1846178846?utm_campaign=Jalopnik&utm_content=1612283470&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1gmACMVJU36MWPYRPf8AuaMcuTRAsbEESYy5UL7OlqmTSNItz5f8K3_zA)

This may be the last new V-8 car you can buy with a manual transmission.

Might be close on the V-6 as well, manuals are disappearing.  You can get a V6 manual Camaro.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2021, 01:40:15 PM

2023 Cadillac Lyriq: What We Know So Far (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/cadillac/lyriq?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&fbclid=IwAR2smkEska4tqxjGBr3b61JAAFAszNxt6kQdlbl7d3RevoewF6S1-vWAl9s)

General Motors is launching a line of new EV battery technology with the Lyriq called Ultium. The scalable technology allows the automaker to produce batteries that range in size from 50.0 kWh to 200 kWh, although the largest size is said to be reserved only for large EV pickup trucks such as the upcoming GMC Hummer EV SUT (https://www.caranddriver.com/gmc/hummer-ev). Cadillac claims that the Lyriq will offer a battery with about 100-kWh worth of capacity and should be capable of driving ranges of more than 300 miles per charge. DC fast charging capability will be standard but the Lyriq will also be able to charge on home power outlets as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 08, 2021, 01:49:58 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxBQ2Q39Tq4&feature=emb_logo

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 08, 2021, 04:30:41 PM

Meh

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 08, 2021, 09:01:29 PM

I really prefer the idea of trading in your battery instead of quick-charging it.  A - it'll never feel quick enough for people.  B - if you have a battery to trade in, then you get a fully-charged one. 


It'd be like a propane tank for your grill.  Your key could unlock it, and if it's too hot or heavy or whatever, the gas station person would do it - boom - more jobs. 
They can scan the battery you're trading in and scan the one you're getting so it's all on the up-and-up.


Battery stations with mini-marts, everywhere, to replace gas stations. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2021, 07:28:01 AM

The battery swap concept has some challenges.

Motor Mouth: Is battery-swapping the future of EVs? | Driving (https://driving.ca/features/feature-story/motor-mouth-is-battery-swapping-the-future-of-evs)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2021, 07:29:42 AM

I just ordered a new computer.  After gnashing molars a few days, including waking up at 2 AM a couple times with this on my mind, I figured I should finish it.

I bought the external CD/DVD read/write gizmo and a new Office software thing, so it ended up being a bit more than I expected.

But, I can sleep now, I hope.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 09, 2021, 07:45:16 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 08, 2021, 01:49:58 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxBQ2Q39Tq4&feature=emb_logo

Funny commercial. I wonder if these people understand they are in favor of coal powered cars? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2021, 07:47:42 AM

Not in Norway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 09, 2021, 08:57:02 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 09, 2021, 07:28:01 AM

The battery swap concept has some challenges.

Motor Mouth: Is battery-swapping the future of EVs? | Driving (https://driving.ca/features/feature-story/motor-mouth-is-battery-swapping-the-future-of-evs)

Every battery-related idea has some challenges.  I just deem it the most likely, considering how impatient people are.

You could have several battery types - the changing station could be versatile to handle any number of different sizes/locations.  It could have a high-pressure wash feature, drying, terminal cleaning, etc.
.
Each individual automaker could have its own stations - so instead of Shell, Chevron, etc, you'd pull inot the Tesla station if that's what you're driving. 

Build them every 100 miles along major interstates as you build them in the largest cities........I think this is how it will end up, maybe not what's "next" in the industry.  But 40 years from now, yeah, I think it's the most likely outcome.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 09, 2021, 10:10:19 AM

why is battery swapping better then battery recharging

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 09, 2021, 10:15:22 AM

quickness

only stop for 5 minutes while using the restroom and you're ready to go

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 09, 2021, 10:15:42 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 09, 2021, 10:10:19 AM

why is battery swapping better then battery recharging

It's faster.


And you could conceivably catch more potential battery failures that way, as well.  If they're regularly coming into stations to be swapped out for recharging, they could check for problems and potentially recondition them as well, before putting them back into circulation.  This would, of course, be more expensive, but could be a value-added service.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 09, 2021, 10:32:33 AM

There are currently over 270,000,000 vehicles in the US

If you figure each one needing a recharge every 7 days thats aprox 38,000,000 each day

so you are saying every day 38,000,000 will be replaced 

while I can see exchanging if on a long trip I dont see much of advantage for those just going from

work to home each day

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2021, 10:40:41 AM

These batteries weigh a half ton or more. Might not be easy to swap.

(https://i.imgur.com/gqzqAlk.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 09, 2021, 10:42:54 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2021, 10:40:41 AM

These batteries weigh a half ton or more. Might not be easy to swap.

(https://i.imgur.com/gqzqAlk.png)

you stole my thunder
I was just getting ready to post that fact
Technology will have to greatly decrease the weight for swapping to be practical 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 09, 2021, 10:44:39 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2021, 10:40:41 AM

These batteries weigh a half ton or more. Might not be easy to swap.

(https://i.imgur.com/gqzqAlk.png)

Yeah it definitely depends on the vehicle, the batteries, and the battery configuration.  But no matter what, we're definitely NOT talking about something as simple as swapping out your normal battery on your current everyday IC engine vehicle.

I've seen the proposal for "battery sleds" in a vehicle, where the whole bank of batteries slides out on a sled and is replaced with another that is identical.  I think eventually the capability to do something like that will be there, but what I don't know, is whether or not the market dynamics will enable such a thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2021, 01:02:58 PM

Cadillac Super Cruise Review: Better Than Tesla’s Autopilot (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/cars/cadillac/escalade/2021/cadillac-super-cruise-is-as-good-or-better-than-tesla-autopilot/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR2OVFGgOgUWNQwaeyTZN41D7apcVBDjwlto2Oi9TngNl5aflKnXNXqvKqY)

We may end up with inductive charging as we drive, but that's a ways out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on February 09, 2021, 01:54:43 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 09, 2021, 01:02:58 PM

Cadillac Super Cruise Review: Better Than Tesla’s Autopilot (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/cars/cadillac/escalade/2021/cadillac-super-cruise-is-as-good-or-better-than-tesla-autopilot/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR2OVFGgOgUWNQwaeyTZN41D7apcVBDjwlto2Oi9TngNl5aflKnXNXqvKqY)

We may end up with inductive charging as we drive, but that's a ways out.

Anything coming from the road is a long ways off, especially in colder climates. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 09, 2021, 01:59:10 PM

the old battery in my daughter's 2010 Malibu worked fine this morning at negative 16 degrees

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 09, 2021, 02:28:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 09, 2021, 01:02:58 PM

Cadillac Super Cruise Review: Better Than Tesla’s Autopilot (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/cars/cadillac/escalade/2021/cadillac-super-cruise-is-as-good-or-better-than-tesla-autopilot/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR2OVFGgOgUWNQwaeyTZN41D7apcVBDjwlto2Oi9TngNl5aflKnXNXqvKqY)

We may end up with inductive charging as we drive, but that's a ways out.

that would be neat

have two batteries one operating and one charging

perpetual motion machine

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 09, 2021, 04:35:25 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 09, 2021, 10:32:33 AM

There are currently over 270,000,000 vehicles in the US

If you figure each one needing a recharge every 7 days thats aprox 38,000,000 each day

so you are saying every day 38,000,000 will be replaced

while I can see exchanging if on a long trip I dont see much of advantage for those just going from

work to home each day

Thanks for the meaningless numbers, lol.

I was thinking more along the lines of people charging when they're home/overnight, so many would hardly ever need to switch theirs out.  But on long trips, obviously, it would be useful, as you said. 
.
Perhaps it'd be more like an oil change, where you notice it doesn't recharge to 100% overnight or something..

It depends on the battery usage people get into the habit of.....is it a nightly thing you plug in before bed or is it a "when I remember, on the weekends" kind of thing.  Do they start wearing out after 20 recharges or 500 or 10,000?

.
All I know is that people are absolutely not going to wait around for a battery to recharge when they're trying to get somewhere.  That might be a thing in the early years of widespread electric car use, but it will not be "the way" down the (timeline) road.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2021, 04:41:27 PM

This is for V3 Tesla supercharging:

 At this rate, a Model 3 Long Range operating at peak efficiency can recover up to 75 miles of charge in 5 minutes and charge at rates of up to 1,000 miles per hour. 

That's pretty good I think.  It would be nifty if the makers would standardize on a plug in type.  A car with 300 miles of range would need 15-20 minutes to recharge from dead.  You might stop every 200 miles and recharge in five minutes and drive on.

If you drive 400 miles in a day, that is two stops.  For five minutes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2021, 04:49:44 PM

The ultimate highway cruiser?

2021 Cadillac Escalade Diesel Is Smooth, Fuel-Sipping Euphoria (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a35454287/2021-cadillac-escalade-diesel-drive/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR0j_EqFgOEOmtAqIf2pQf2s5I5SfbJZapjZgGJcEWCw7BohT2Da42y1xp0)

27 mpg highway EPA rating and SuperCruise, all for a bit over 100 large.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 09, 2021, 04:58:38 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 09, 2021, 04:35:25 PM

Thanks for the meaningless numbers, lol.

I was thinking more along the lines of people charging when they're home/overnight, so many would hardly ever need to switch theirs out.  But on long trips, obviously, it would be useful, as you said. 
.
Perhaps it'd be more like an oil change, where you notice it doesn't recharge to 100% overnight or something..

It depends on the battery usage people get into the habit of.....is it a nightly thing you plug in before bed or is it a "when I remember, on the weekends" kind of thing.  Do they start wearing out after 20 recharges or 500 or 10,000?

.
All I know is that people are absolutely not going to wait around for a battery to recharge when they're trying to get somewhere.  That might be a thing in the early years of widespread electric car use, but it will not be "the way" down the (timeline) road.

the current battery weighs over half a ton so currently not likely

sorry if numbers scare you 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2021, 05:05:26 PM

Out in the future, I'm fairly confident we'll see inductive charging.

A battery swap required exposed contacts.  Not a good thing in winter.  And batteries degrade over time, so you could well end up with one with half full charge.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 09, 2021, 06:35:35 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 09, 2021, 04:58:38 PM

the current battery weighs over half a ton so currently not likely

sorry if numbers scare you

Only when they're pulled from your ass.  No telling what's been up there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 09, 2021, 06:36:37 PM

Florida schedules home-and-home with Notre Dame in 2031-2.
November of 31 in South Bend
September of 32 in Gainesville

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 09, 2021, 06:52:51 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 09, 2021, 05:05:26 PM

Out in the future, I'm fairly confident we'll see inductive charging.

I'm not sure at all. The cost required to put inductive charging into roadways is astronomical. And the efficiency of inductive charging is probably not enough to make it worthwhile. I don't see it happening.

Quote

A battery swap required exposed contacts.  Not a good thing in winter.  And batteries degrade over time, so you could well end up with one with half full charge.

Also note that for a battery swap, you need a LOT more weight and strength in the chassis to make them easily removable and replaceable.

I'm reminded of motorcycles where all modern sportbikes use the engine as a stressed member of the frame. I'm guessing that in a modern BEV, the batteries don't just "ride" in the frame, the battery packs are part of the frame. 

Once you make them removable and they ride in the frame, you have to beef up the frame significantly, which of course adds tons of extra weight. 

Then your point about exposed contacts is important. You need contacts that are removable, but also capable of handling all the shock and vibration of a moving vehicle. Whereas a static battery pack will have fixed connections. 

There are SO many logistical and engineering issues with battery swaps. Not to say that they won't ever be solved, but I'm guessing that much like inductive charging, the solution will be to improve the rapid charging infrastructure rather than to go to battery swap tech. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 09, 2021, 08:29:52 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 09, 2021, 06:35:35 PM

Only when they're pulled from your ass.  No telling what's been up there.

go sit with the other 6 year olds youre at the wrong table

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 10, 2021, 12:37:13 AM

At least you got the right youre, sort of

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 10, 2021, 08:26:01 AM

Out in the future, I'm talking 2050 plus, we might see some trials done earlier.  It would be better than high speed rail I think.

I completely agree about the battery being a structural member with structural attachments in cars today.  Frame rigidity is a huge thing for cars these days.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 10, 2021, 08:29:19 AM

Many people following The Science here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 10, 2021, 09:15:57 AM

In any event, the tech that will dictate how and where and how often electric car batteries will be manipulated has yet to be perfected or even developed.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 10, 2021, 09:22:18 AM

Well, there are three main concepts, one already in use:

1.  Normal charging, including supercharging, which is capable of 75 miles range in 5 minutes.
2.  Battery swaps, really in the concept phase.
3.  Induction, which is more of a costly dream at this point, technically possible.

If you need long distance capability, charging becomes less attractive for obvious reasons, but most  driving is intercity where that isn't really an issue.  An EV with 250 miles range will get you to work and back easily (I hope).  Then you charge at night when power needs are low.

The strain on the Grid for day charging in July could be a factor.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 10, 2021, 10:56:19 AM

I've been told the electric grid in my area should be able to handle the additional capacity easily.  Regardless of day or night charging

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 10, 2021, 12:59:26 PM

I've seen figures ranging  from 25% to 40% of additional generating capacity needed if we were all electric, including trucks.

Electric Cars Will Challenge State Power Grids | The Pew Charitable Trusts (pewtrusts.org) (https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2020/01/09/electric-cars-will-challenge-state-power-grids)

A U.S. Department of Energy study (https://www.wecc.org/Administrative/NREL elec tranformation study with GHG comments.pdf) found that increased electrification across all sectors of the economy could boost national consumption by as much as 38% by 2050, in large part because of electric vehicles. The environmental benefit of electric cars depends on the electricity being generated by renewables.

University of Texas at Austin estimated (https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/12/americas-power-grid-isnt-ready-electric-cars/577507/) the amount of electricity that would be required if every car on the road transitioned to electric. Wyoming, for instance, would need to nudge up its electricity production only 17%, while Maine would have to produce 55% more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 10, 2021, 01:09:33 PM

could boost national consumption by as much as 38% by 2050,

I'm guessing the grid and power production will evolve in the next 30 years

probably hasn't increased 38% in the past 30 years, but I assume there's been an increase

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 10, 2021, 02:36:36 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/JIAvh14.png)

At a time when many want more wind and solar, it's useful to note that an additional demand due to EVs recharging will make that even more of a challenge.   The rate of increase over time has been significant, up to 2007.  We increased from 3,000 to 3,700 from 1990 to 200, so large increased are possible, but of course that was significantly using coal.

It will be tough to keep up if our new sources are limited to wind and solar.  Tough as in mathematically impossible.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 10, 2021, 02:38:59 PM

Here is on projection on the mix by 2050:

(https://i.imgur.com/hu6QYod.png)

You can see it would be 2045 before renewables EQUALS NG, not replaces.  These can be wrong of course, but any realistical view of our energy situations shows the magnitude of the problem seriously out running the lofty notions of politicos.

And fusion increasingly is looking  further distant.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 10, 2021, 02:40:09 PM

Nevada, outside of Clarke County, should just be one giant solar panel.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 10, 2021, 02:53:44 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 10, 2021, 02:36:36 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/JIAvh14.png)

At a time when many want more wind and solar, it's useful to note that an additional demand due to EVs recharging will make that even more of a challenge.  The rate of increase over time has been significant, up to 2007.  We increased from 3,000 to 3,700 from 1990 to 200, so large increased are possible, but of course that was significantly using coal.

It will be tough to keep up if our new sources are limited to wind and solar.  Tough as in mathematically impossible.

Does this only include commercial sources, or does it also include the output of residential solar?

I don't know if the economics works out yet (and haven't looked into it strongly b/c I rent), but residential solar coupled with home battery backup has the potential to be a game-changer here. 

Let the sun charge your batteries during the day while you're out. When you get home, power the house (and your EV needing recharging) off the stored battery energy. Only use the grid intermittently. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 10, 2021, 03:18:12 PM

Residential solar today is a blip, not significant, that could change.  The charts are on the grid.

Roughly 100 miles needs 30 KwHrs of electricity.  That could improve some, but we're probably near max on it.

The math problem on "wind and solar" is really eye opening, I think.  If in time rooftop solar became say 50% of houses, we might have something IFF the system had capacity to run AC and else while also charging batteries.

With installation, an average residential 5kW size system costs between $3 and $5 per watt, according to the CSE, which results in the $15,000 to $25,000 range. That cost is before any tax credits and incentives. If you know your current energy usage, you can calculate how much you'll need to pay for solar panels.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 10, 2021, 03:37:33 PM

Midtown is coming back to life from pandemic slow-downs - Atlanta Business Chronicle (bizjournals.com) (https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2021/02/05/midtown-market-report-viewpoint.html?b=1612475274^21855288&fbclid=IwAR3BD4ge5c6pv9XOe_wJ1z4u9ipHFTjUGkWRNL66ShjVasY0D0OjwQcntdw)

Maybe.  What do you see as long term impacts of the COVID pandemic in your area?


Can't even see our condo building in this shot.  That is Grant Field in the foreground.(https://i.imgur.com/hXcvRmo.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 10, 2021, 03:45:59 PM

This would suck.

Trucks drenched in human waste following messy crash in Florida (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/trucks-drenched-in-human-waste-following-messy-crash-in-florida/ar-BB1dzF4X?ocid=msedgntp)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 10, 2021, 05:43:11 PM

Thanx - as I sit down to a couple of Chalupas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 10, 2021, 06:03:52 PM

[font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif](https://i.imgur.com/EAoOD8j.png)
 
(https://i.imgur.com/UvewNJj.png)
 
(https://i.imgur.com/reUDYyI.png)
 
(https://i.imgur.com/SEZYq8A.png)
 
 
(https://i.imgur.com/wHfElCS.png)
 
(https://i.imgur.com/SPnLLpA.png)
 
 
(https://i.imgur.com/2ypG9gt.png)
 
(https://i.imgur.com/gKB6qlL.png)
 
(https://i.imgur.com/J77Ke3X.png)
 
(https://i.imgur.com/8nWpSov.png)
 
 
And my absolute favorite …
 
 
(https://i.imgur.com/AWfEoeF.png)[/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/color]

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 10, 2021, 06:14:04 PM

My new computer has arrived.  Set up tomorrow.  I hope.  I don't see any deductions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 10, 2021, 06:17:51 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 10, 2021, 06:14:04 PM

My new computer has arrived.  Set up tomorrow.  I hope.  I don't see any deductions.

only from your bank account

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 10, 2021, 07:26:12 PM

time to liven things up around here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HNEYHLgebQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 11, 2021, 08:20:06 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 10, 2021, 07:26:12 PM

time to liven things up around here

That was pretty good, very talented youngsters. And the guitar player even looks a little bit like Jimmy Page. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2021, 08:35:55 AM

22 Atlanta-Area Barbecue Restaurants to Know (eater.com) (https://atlanta.eater.com/maps/where-eat-barbecue-atlanta)

Fat Matt's is very near us and they have a nice music scene (preCOVID) and it stays crowded.  Their pulled pork is meh.

Fox Bros. Bar-B-Q

1238 Dekalb Ave NE
Atlanta, GA(404) 577-4030Visit Website (http://www.foxbrosbbq.com/)

Jonathan and Justin Fox don’t mess around. Their Texas-style barbecue joint is famous for bringing Frito pie to the Southeast, but their brilliance shines in the Tominator, a base of tater tots covered in Brunswick stew and smothered in melted cheese. For those living and working north of Midtown, check out their Bar-B-Que que-osk housed in a converted shipping container on Ottley Drive Monday - Friday from 11 a.m. to 2 p.m. The brothers open a second location (https://atlanta.eater.com/2019/10/22/20926829/fox-bros-barbecue-opening-second-restaurant-the-works-underwood-hills-atlanta) of their popular barbecue restaurant next year at the Works next to Andrew Zimmern’s food hall off of Chattahoochee Avenue.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2021, 08:36:41 AM

Sweet Auburn Barbecue

656 N Highland Ave NE
Atlanta, GA

(678) 515-3550
Visit Website (http://sweetauburnbbq.com/)

Start with Asian-inspired pimento cheese wontons at the first brick-and-mortar shop by Howard Hsu, who started with a Sweet Auburn Barbecue food truck and a counter at Sweet Auburn Curb Market. Stick to the Asian path with coconut lemongrass spare ribs, or go domestic with Memphis-, Carolina-, and Texas-style dishe



(https://i.imgur.com/QES3PPl.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 11, 2021, 08:45:05 AM

So... I guess today's the day we get the BBQ tour around Atlanta?

Coulda sworn that was on the Calendar for next Thursday...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2021, 08:47:27 AM

The new Audi EV based on the Porsche Taycan is interesting.  I imagine charging rates will continue to improve, some, we could be near some maximum without a new battery type.  The one has a 93 KwH battery pack which should be good for over 300 miles.  Drive 280 miles, stop for lunch and recharge, and drive another 280 miles, should be enough for a day for most.  (If you can find a fast charger.)

The E-Tron GT adopts an 800-volt charging architecture for ultra-fast charges. Using a 270-kW DC fast-charger, the car can go from 5 to 80 percent charge in a claimed 22 minutes. It'll also reportedly gain a maximum of 62 miles of range in 5 minutes under optimal conditions.

2022 Audi E-Tron GT Arrives as the Taycan's Four-Ringed Cousin (automobilemag.com) (https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2022-audi-e-tron-gt-first-look-review/?sm_id=organic_fb_social_AMAG_210210_sf242805614&fbclid=IwAR2Ul4ERCl5S1lwHX-BPBR-j5gGuyF9LoieSxsQxN14IgeB1YXMGg2YKZwE#sf242805614)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2021, 08:49:20 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 11, 2021, 08:45:05 AM

So... I guess today's the day we get the BBQ tour around Atlanta?

Coulda sworn that was on the Calendar for next Thursday...

Nope, today.  As you know, I've been looking for good Q places, I'd never heard of most of these, not surprisingly.  On the other hand, I'm  happy with Fox Bros.  I want to try Community some time.  The wife is a fan of good BBQ.  I once thought we'd move to Lyon and I'd open a rib joint.  She laughed.

Things Southern she has adopted, and not adopted:

Sweat tea
Corn bread and hushpuppies
Fried chicken
BBQ
Cole slaw (we are both particular about it)
Baked beans and tater salad (if good)
Greens (if good)

She has yet to adopt:

Fried oysters and shrimp
Y'all
Settin' on the porch
Fried jalapenoes and mushrooms

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 11, 2021, 08:55:02 AM

Moonshine?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 11, 2021, 08:56:46 AM

Odd that she doesn't like the fried oysters and shrimp, as seafood is a pretty common part of the diet in much of France.  And the fact that she likes fried chicken would seem to indicate it's not a texture-thing.  

We have several BBQ/Asian fusion type places around here as well. For the most part, they're quite good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2021, 09:16:25 AM

She likes raw oysters, a lot.  She thinks frying them is a travesty.  She never orders fried shrimp, I think she'd like it if she did.  They don't fry things in  France much except freedom  fries.

The Whole Foods near us will shuck oysters for you, ten for $10, if you eat them on premise, and they have a rooftop "bar" area that is pretty neat.  I think it reopened a few weeks back.

(https://i.imgur.com/uOqs6nl.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 11, 2021, 09:35:37 AM

I like oysters

raw, fried, stewed, all of them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 11, 2021, 09:46:04 AM

Yup same here.  And I like scrimps too. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 11, 2021, 09:47:37 AM

I like my oysters raw. Gonna get some fresh ones at the market tomorrow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2021, 10:04:41 AM

I just turned on my new computer, it is taking a while to boot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 11, 2021, 10:06:42 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 11, 2021, 10:04:41 AM

I just turned on my new computer, it is taking a while to boot.

SSD or HDD?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2021, 10:17:37 AM

Both, setup seems to be going easily.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 11, 2021, 10:22:03 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 11, 2021, 08:20:06 AM

That was pretty good, very talented youngsters. And the guitar player even looks a little bit like Jimmy Page.

Yep he gets that a lot

Ive followed them for a while

Its an all cast

The drummer is from Germany

the singer believe it or not is Russian

and the guitar player is from some Baltic country not sure which

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2021, 10:23:38 AM

My very first message on new computer, should be a doozy ...

... but won't.

Foggy today outside.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 11, 2021, 11:04:14 AM

So NOW you can use the fancy new monitor?  

How does it look?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2021, 11:08:26 AM

It's BIG.  My old on is 24" I think, side by side the new one looks almost double.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 11, 2021, 11:58:52 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 11, 2021, 11:08:26 AM

It's BIG.  My old on is 24" I think, side by side the new one looks almost double.

When it comes to actual screen area, a 32" is actually pretty close to double of a 24"...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 11, 2021, 12:17:03 PM

I have a 34" curved monitor.  It's really, really big.

My boss has a 38" curved.  That thing is ridiculous.

His boss had  49" curved.  That thing was... well, it's a good thing he was a VP 'cause it wouldn't fit in my old cube that's for sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 11, 2021, 12:27:04 PM

You guys use desktops??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 11, 2021, 12:28:44 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 11, 2021, 12:27:04 PM

You guys use desktops??

Nope

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 11, 2021, 12:34:17 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 11, 2021, 12:27:04 PM

You guys use desktops??

No. My Surface monitor is the 3rd one. Gets used for Zoom and Teams only.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 11, 2021, 12:48:00 PM

Yup.

I have dual monitors set up in addition to the laptop's screen.  The whole setup runs off a USBC dock.  In addition to the 34" curved, my "small" monitor is a 29" Ultrawide UltraSharp which is actually my favorite for the very very very large spreadsheets I have to create, maintain, and analyze on a daily basis.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 11, 2021, 12:51:01 PM

I've got two Dell 28" monitors, plus the Surface 13".

CAD files and all that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 11, 2021, 12:53:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 11, 2021, 10:23:38 AM

My very first message on new computer, should be a doozy ...

... but won't.

Foggy today outside.

Message old fogies in a fog

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 11, 2021, 03:28:02 PM

HP desktop in the office - 28" UHD 4k2k monitor

ten year old Dell desktop at the house - smaller monitor maybe 20"

HP laptop for work when travelling or at home

my fiber connection at home can put me on the office LAN

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 11, 2021, 03:40:23 PM

HP?

*sighs, shaking head*

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 11, 2021, 03:42:52 PM

I do 90% of all purchasing here, but I don't purchase for the IT department

all my techs have HP laptops ed zachery like mine

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 11, 2021, 03:54:24 PM

sad, sad state of affairs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 11, 2021, 03:58:47 PM

he's an Apple guy too

weird 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 11, 2021, 04:07:07 PM

Going for a Michelin-starred meal doesn’t have to mean blowing the travel budget. We’ve found the 50 cheapest one star (*) and two star (**) restaurants in each country covered by the Michelin guide, and ranked them by the price of an individual meal. Sort the list by location, price, or type of meal and click on each restaurant to find out exactly where you can eat beautiful, delicious, Michelin-worthy food wherever you go in the world.

https://www.traveloka.com/special/cheapest-michelin-meals?b=t%3AWKvkqG5SI1U_hbRqgebtKA&p=https%3A%2F%2Fusefulinterweb.com%2Fpost%2F642027604902281217%2F50-cheapest-michelin-meals-in-the-world&m=0&ts=1612464132 (https://www.traveloka.com/special/cheapest-michelin-meals?b=t%3AWKvkqG5SI1U_hbRqgebtKA&p=https%3A%2F%2Fusefulinterweb.com%2Fpost%2F642027604902281217%2F50-cheapest-michelin-meals-in-the-world&m=0&ts=1612464132)

I'll take my daughters to Al's in San Fran if we ever get there together on my way to play Pebble Beach

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 11, 2021, 04:15:26 PM

I've been to #21 on that list. The governor closed it, sadly.

(https://i.imgur.com/j3FGBnf.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2021, 05:32:04 PM

I am dubious there are that many Michelin stars.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 11, 2021, 05:39:56 PM

not many in the USA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 11, 2021, 07:08:41 PM

I don't see Gusteau's in Paris on the list...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 11, 2021, 07:10:16 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 11, 2021, 07:08:41 PM

I don't see Gusteau's in Paris on the list...

Shut down by the health department. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 11, 2021, 07:35:41 PM

after looking again........

just a list of the 50 lowest priced / cheapest one star (*) and two star (**)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 11, 2021, 08:10:35 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 11, 2021, 05:39:56 PM

not many in the USA

And you dined & dashed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2021, 08:15:02 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 11, 2021, 05:39:56 PM

not many in the USA

A Comprehensive List of Michelin Star Restaurants in the United States (upserve.com)
 (https://upserve.com/restaurant-insider/michelin-star-restaurants-united-states/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 13, 2021, 07:58:44 PM

Mmm... Bacon...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 13, 2021, 10:03:56 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/I5QBKB5.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/ffdkzQz.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/g183Vhx.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 13, 2021, 10:17:27 PM

testing for seniors drivers license renewel

(https://i.imgur.com/J8WoeyV.png)

Sorry you failed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2021, 09:29:20 AM

In other news, we sold the wife's Benz yesterday. Now we need to find a golf cart.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2021, 09:47:54 AM

So, my new computer wanted a password to unlock the damn thing.  Huh.  And for some obscure reason my keyboard would register only numbers, not letters.  

So, I had to go in circles to reset the damn thing with only numbers, and the password guru didn't like that.  I finally forced the issue.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2021, 10:15:55 AM

So... I finally decided to try out Harry's razors.

Goodbye, Gillette. 

Harry's are amazing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 14, 2021, 10:19:19 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2021, 09:29:20 AM

In other news, we sold the wife's Benz yesterday. Now we need to find a golf cart.

the Yamaha gassers are reliable and need very little maintenance

gas burners might not be allowed in many places

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 14, 2021, 10:20:07 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2021, 10:15:55 AM

So... I finally decided to try out Harry's razors.

Goodbye, Gillette.

Harry's are amazing.

I switched to electric a couple decades ago

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2021, 10:35:20 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 14, 2021, 10:19:19 AM

the Yamaha gassers are reliable and need very little maintenance

gas burners might not be allowed in many places

Yeah, gas not allowed on the course here. Only electric.

I'm gonna get a new one. The batteries are much more reliable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 14, 2021, 10:41:35 AM

So badge, are y'all downsizing to one car?  Or is a replacement in the works?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 14, 2021, 10:55:10 AM

Over thanksgiving I was driving a golf cart down a street when I heard a vehicle approaching from behind. So I steered over near the side of the road, and all of a sudden these two guys in a souped-up golf cart go racing by; thumbing their nose. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2021, 10:57:30 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 14, 2021, 10:41:35 AM

So badge, are y'all downsizing to one car?  Or is a replacement in the works?

Her car sat in the garage for 3 months, so I asked her about it. We've had it four years and put 8K miles on it. Lots of that was getting it down here...

So, get rid of the insurance and put money in the bank. Made sense. We only "lost" $4K on it, in 4 years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 14, 2021, 11:04:55 AM

the new lithium battery golf carts are sweet

but, expensive

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 14, 2021, 11:09:18 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 14, 2021, 09:47:54 AM

So, my new computer wanted a password to unlock the damn thing.  Huh.  And for some obscure reason my keyboard would register only numbers, not letters. 

So, I had to go in circles to reset the damn thing with only numbers, and the password guru didn't like that.  I finally forced the issue.

Your keyboard only typed numbers?  What caused that?  Did you get a Dell?

splain it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 14, 2021, 11:11:18 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 14, 2021, 11:09:18 AM

Your keyboard only typed numbers?  What caused that?  Did you get a Dell?

splain it

the devil

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2021, 11:19:33 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 14, 2021, 11:09:18 AM

Your keyboard only typed numbers?  What caused that?  Did you get a Dell?

splain it

I can't explain it, it only was the case when I tried to unlike my computer.

Very weird.  I changed the password using my old computer.

This new one keeps having popup ads on it, stuff loaded onto the computer that is "amazing" and I should use.  go away.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 14, 2021, 11:35:05 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 14, 2021, 11:19:33 AM

I can't explain it, it only was the case when I tried to unlike my computer.

Very weird.  I changed the password using my old computer.

This new one keeps having popup ads on it, stuff loaded onto the computer that is "amazing" and I should use.  go away.

what computer did you get?  Dell?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2021, 11:37:26 AM

I purchased a program to transfer files from old to new.  It took two days.  It seems to have worked OK.  My task bar is weird and some other things are weird.  The screen is nice to have though.

I still have my old computer running side by side.  I hope TurboTax works OK when I use it in a week or so.

Whilst not having a computer (I used iPad as needed), I took the time to pull out storage boxes from my office closet, which was needed.  I consolidated a lot of stuff (and threw stuff out) and have much more room in the closet.  This bedroom has a double wide closet and another small one with a door.  So, I have more room now and less clutter.  Why I kept some of this stuff ...

When I moved, I got tired of deciding, it was easier to pack stuff than decide whether or not I needed it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2021, 11:38:17 AM

Yes, a Dell, like my old one, only new, so I could use this fancy monitor.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 14, 2021, 12:45:33 PM

I hate adware and bloatware.  I hate that companies, including the one I work for, insist on loading it.

There are some decent apps that you can run that will go through and disable/remove most of it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2021, 12:50:14 PM

I suspect these pop up once and are gone.  Maybe.  They are off to the side.  Some kind of yuboTV thingee popped up.

MacAfee pops up.  I got a CD called Media Suite 12, no idea what that would do.

It's some DVD editing thingee.

I'm working on my task bars.  Just logged into Amazon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 14, 2021, 12:55:20 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 14, 2021, 12:45:33 PM

I hate adware and bloatware.  I hate that companies, including the one I work for, insist on loading it.

There are some decent apps that you can run that will go through and disable/remove most of it. 

it's all about the $$$

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 14, 2021, 01:31:13 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2021, 09:29:20 AM

In other news, we sold the wife's Benz yesterday. Now we need to find a golf cart.

One-car family?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2021, 01:49:42 PM

Yep. No need for two.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 14, 2021, 02:00:28 PM

one car, one golf cart, two boats!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2021, 02:48:39 PM

Why number 137 is one of the greatest mysteries in physics - Big Think (https://bigthink.com/surprising-science/number-137-physics?rebelltitem=1#rebelltitem1)

I read a biography of Dirac the other week and this came up, he was really fascinated by it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 14, 2021, 05:15:14 PM

Anybody have an idea of when the fade route became a thing?  
There's always been the fly (streak) route straight downfield and the post, but the fade - where you drift towards the sideline as you go downfield - was born at some point. 

I have no ide when, though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2021, 06:07:21 PM

Hmmmm .... my earliest recollection is with David Greene, but I imagine it was a think before the Dawgs discovered it.  I wonder if some QB accidentally threw a fade and the WR caught it, but it was a broken play in effect, at some point.

It seems like a low percentage pass to me.

The other one is the "back shoulder" which I considered a fairly high percentage play counting PI as part of the success.  Very tough to defend I think.  Then there are wheel routes.

I don't know when or who popularized these things, maybe some coach had them in 1937.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 14, 2021, 09:05:51 PM

The back shoulder started in the past 20-25 years, for sure.  
But the fade route was backinto the 80s  I assume and perhaps before.  I'd have to listen to a bunch of old games to see how far back the announcers used it.  
I was just asking a genuine question, and as usual, got a non-answer in return.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 14, 2021, 09:57:29 PM

It's not one of the 9 basic routes on the route tree here.....

https://www.thephinsider.com/2016/6/20/11975890/football-101-wide-receiver-route-tree (https://www.thephinsider.com/2016/6/20/11975890/football-101-wide-receiver-route-tree)

This one shows the "fade" as the fly

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2016841-nfl-101-breaking-down-the-basics-of-the-route-tree (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2016841-nfl-101-breaking-down-the-basics-of-the-route-tree)


(https://media.bleacherreport.com/f_auto,w_800,h_533,q_auto,c_fill/br-img-article/001/469/678/2f131ebd9723b50d6e3c471f38f02556_crop_exact.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 14, 2021, 10:01:19 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 14, 2021, 05:15:14 PM

Anybody have an idea of when the fade route became a thing? 
There's always been the fly (streak) route straight downfield and the post, but the fade - where you drift towards the sideline as you go downfield - was born at some point.

I have no ide when, though.

maybe Don Coryell in the 60's?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 15, 2021, 12:06:30 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 14, 2021, 09:57:29 PM

It's not one of the 9 basic routes on the route tree here.....

https://www.thephinsider.com/2016/6/20/11975890/football-101-wide-receiver-route-tree (https://www.thephinsider.com/2016/6/20/11975890/football-101-wide-receiver-route-tree)

This one shows the "fade" as the fly

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2016841-nfl-101-breaking-down-the-basics-of-the-route-tree (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2016841-nfl-101-breaking-down-the-basics-of-the-route-tree)


(https://media.bleacherreport.com/f_auto,w_800,h_533,q_auto,c_fill/br-img-article/001/469/678/2f131ebd9723b50d6e3c471f38f02556_crop_exact.png)

Yeah, that's definitely not the traditional fade route.  
In my game, I'm not sure everyone knows what a "dig" route is, so I type it out as "deep in." 
.
A fade where you aren't expecting the ball to be thrown at you, but at an area you create between you, the defender, and the sideline is what I'm talking about.  You stutter-step off the line, then get width to the outside of the corner, and then go upfield, expecting the ball in that area, usually a rainbow-type throw that should land right along the sideline.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 15, 2021, 12:07:51 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdeYDmmj_hk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdeYDmmj_hk)

like this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2021, 07:49:39 AM

Whoopsies.

Minneapolis push to defund police backfires after residents complain of slow response times, increase in crime | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/minneapolis-defund-police-backfires-residents-complain-slow-response-times-increase-crime)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 15, 2021, 08:33:37 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2021, 07:49:39 AM

Whoopsies.

Minneapolis push to defund police backfires after residents complain of slow response times, increase in crime | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/minneapolis-defund-police-backfires-residents-complain-slow-response-times-increase-crime)

they should just get their social workers to do it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 15, 2021, 08:46:51 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2021, 07:49:39 AM

Whoopsies.

Minneapolis push to defund police backfires after residents complain of slow response times, increase in crime | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/minneapolis-defund-police-backfires-residents-complain-slow-response-times-increase-crime)

Any one ever talk to Road Dawg anymore.Always enjoyed his takes you hooked up with him in Indy a while back didn't you?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2021, 08:50:38 AM

I have not for a while. He's on here from time to time, just not as often as I would prefer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 15, 2021, 09:49:37 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2021, 07:49:39 AM

Whoopsies.

Minneapolis push to defund police backfires after residents complain of slow response times, increase in crime | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/minneapolis-defund-police-backfires-residents-complain-slow-response-times-increase-crime)

I understand that picking up your life and moving may not be as easy for some folks, but I'd be moving out of Minneapolis or Chicago or a few other blue cities.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 15, 2021, 09:52:24 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 15, 2021, 09:49:37 AM

I understand that picking up your life and moving may not be as easy for some folks, but I'd be moving out of Minneapolis or Chicago or a few other blue cities.

Austin voted to defund, as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 15, 2021, 09:55:10 AM

move to Round Rock!

or that acreage  outside of town in the hills

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 15, 2021, 10:07:36 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 15, 2021, 09:55:10 AM

move to Round Rock!

or that acreage  outside of town in the hills

I'm in Cedar Park, just across the town border from Austin.  Our city government is... VERY, VERY conservative... to say the least.  Even more conservative than RR.

I love our mayor, he's a really great dude, very smart too.  He's got two degrees from UT, just like me. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 10:39:34 AM

We have a new thing here that sounds promising, it's a "3-1-1" call, for situations that are not threatening, mainly seeing a homeless person you think needs help.  Apparently they do send some social workers out to check on the individual.

That could be a thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2021, 10:44:36 AM

3-1-1 is new to Georgia??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 15, 2021, 11:10:37 AM

I haven't heard of it here in Iowa

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 11:11:59 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2021, 10:44:36 AM

3-1-1 is new to Georgia??

It's new to Atlanta.  They just rolled it out in two zones.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 15, 2021, 11:23:32 AM

We've had 3-1-1 for decades.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2021, 11:32:08 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 15, 2021, 11:23:32 AM

We've had 3-1-1 for decades.

Same in Illinois. Florida has had it for a while too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2021, 11:47:17 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 15, 2021, 12:06:30 AM

Yeah, that's definitely not the traditional fade route. 
In my game, I'm not sure everyone knows what a "dig" route is, so I type it out as "deep in."
.
A fade where you aren't expecting the ball to be thrown at you, but at an area you create between you, the defender, and the sideline is what I'm talking about.  You stutter-step off the line, then get width to the outside of the corner, and then go upfield, expecting the ball in that area, usually a rainbow-type throw that should land right along the sideline.

Isn't a fade route basically a corner route? 

A route that starts vertically against a defender with inside leverage so that you can run outside the defender, where you'll work away from the ball. 

In the red zone the outside defenders often have to play inside leverage to defend the slant routes, rub routes, etc. That leaves the fade open, but it's really just a corner route thrown on a timing play to get the ball along the sideline where only the receiver can get it or nobody gets it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 15, 2021, 11:53:39 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 15, 2021, 11:23:32 AM

We've had 3-1-1 for decades.

after some checking....... apparently Iowa has had it since at least 2012

not promoted very well

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 11:55:50 AM

When I was in college, I had a phys ed class with some Dawg starters.  Our WRs of the day tended to be 5'11" ish.

Today, most are 3-4 inches taller, and perhaps that has influenced what passes work.  Of course DBs have gotten taller as well, so maybe not.  Back when, someone with my height would be pretty slow running the 40.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 03:27:04 PM

If an EV had two battery packs and two charging ports, could you charge twice as fast with two chargers?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2021, 03:46:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 03:27:04 PM

If an EV had two battery packs and two charging ports, could you charge twice as fast with two chargers?

I'm going with no... 

The rate of charge is limited by the safety of each battery cell itself. Essentially your EV has hundreds of battery cells, and the arbitrary delineation of the batteries into one "pack" or two "packs" is immaterial. 

Likewise, the amount of voltage and current at that voltage that the charging port is capable of accepting will be sized to the maximum rate of charge of all cells in parallel. Unless you had some limit as far as how much current could safely be carried through one port, simply making the port beefier accomplishes the same thing having two ports would do--the actual charge going to each cell will be controlled by the charging electronics, not the size or number of input ports. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 03:59:29 PM

Van Gogh: The Immersive Experience - Atlanta (vangoghexpo.com) (https://vangoghexpo.com/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=ad&utm_campaign=92529_atl&utm_content=video&fbclid=IwAR2BKTSxHqqktz_ducMo5DMtWc41fO85qnR7VmuJ1T0M1dPo6eDG0H-xQ9Y)

Two separate battery packs with two separate charging outlets and two separate chargers.

Evs today have only one charging outlet so far as I can discern.

Even small airplanes have two isolated fuel tanks.  You can refuel them in theory with two gasoline trucks twice as fast as one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2021, 04:04:48 PM

My boat had two tanks, and we filled them at the same time. When you're tossing 200 gallons in each, that can take a while.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 04:18:11 PM

We only had one fuel truck and there was no hurry.

The 172 held 50 gallons, it had the extended range tanks, they usually held 40.  You'd get 9-10 gallons per hour and 120 knots cruising speed, roughly.

The gas was termed "100 LL", Low Lead.  It had some lead for the valve seats.

We'd check each tank for water before take off.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2021, 04:20:53 PM

My boat averaged 1.2 gallons/mile.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2021, 04:32:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 03:59:29 PM

Van Gogh: The Immersive Experience - Atlanta (vangoghexpo.com) (https://vangoghexpo.com/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=ad&utm_campaign=92529_atl&utm_content=video&fbclid=IwAR2BKTSxHqqktz_ducMo5DMtWc41fO85qnR7VmuJ1T0M1dPo6eDG0H-xQ9Y)

Two separate battery packs with two separate charging outlets and two separate chargers.

Evs today have only one charging outlet so far as I can discern.

Even small airplanes have two isolated fuel tanks.  You can refuel them in theory with two gasoline trucks twice as fast as one.

The question you ask yourself is where is the bottleneck?

Imagine if your airplane had 512 individual mini fuel tanks. Those tanks (to reduce weight) were made of a flexible material like a balloon to reduce weight. 

You have to fill each little balloon with the right amount of fuel. Filling a single balloon too fast will cause the balloon to shear and pop. Filling too much per single balloon will cause them to overfill and pop. So you have flow regulators on every single balloon to make sure they all get filled the proper amount.

Now, you've got one fuel port, and that fuel port goes to the internal pump and is distributed to the flow regulators to all 512 individual balloons. 

If you design a fuel port that doesn't allow enough flow to fill 512 balloons at maximum rate at once, then your fuel port is the bottleneck. If the pump on the charging truck doesn't put out enough flow to fill 512 balloons at maximum rate at once, then your truck flow rate is the bottleneck. In either case, then yes adding another fuel port and additional trucks will help. 

If your fuel port and fuel truck have enough capacity to exceed the flow rate of 512 balloons, however then adding fuel ports and additional trucks, or splitting those 512 balloons into two separate 256-balloon "packs", won't make a difference. 

-------------------------------

To go back to the EV example in a typical charging setup...

• EV charge rate on a 120V wall outlet is ABYSMAL. A common circuit on your breaker might be 15A, giving you at most 1.8kW of charging power.  If that was the only way you had to charge, connecting several different 110V extension cords (from different circuits off your breaker) to multiple charging ports would increase charge rate.
• EV charge rate on a 240V outlet is significantly better. But that doesn't mean you'll get maximum charging if you just hook it up to the electric dryer outlet in your garage. Apparently dryer circuits require 30A, so you boost yourself to 7.2kW. According to this (https://www.chargepoint.com/resources/how-choose-home-ev-charger/), that only gets you to a charge level of about 18 miles of charge per hour. Probably enough for typical overnight chargers. But they make chargers that can go faster if you put in high enough breaker capacity. 
• Tesla Superchargers apparently are capable of delivering 250kW (https://cleantechnica.com/2019/03/08/supercharger-v3-shocking-power-smart-strategy-by-tesla-charts/). That's close enough to the maximum safe peak charging speed of the batteries themselves that there's not much reason to add another port...

An example is here:

(https://i.imgur.com/bvjT3n8.png)

When the battery is 20% or less, technically it can take charge faster than the 250kW charger can provide. But as soon as you get just barely past 20%, a 250kW charging station will be limited by the maximum charge rate of the battery, not the output of the charger. 

And typical EV practice is to try to remain within 20% and 80% of charge to maximize the life cycle of the battery.

So the realistic bottleneck if you're looking for maximum charge rate is the limitation of the battery, not the number of chargers or number of ports. 

I suppose if you had two of the Tesla v2 Superchargers hooked up together to two ports--because there were no v3 Superchargers around, technically the batteries would charge faster up until about 55% charge. But that's not inherent to single or dual ports, or single or dual packs, it's inherent to having your bottleneck be the wattage of the charger. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 15, 2021, 04:46:37 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2021, 11:47:17 AM

Isn't a fade route basically a corner route?

A route that starts vertically against a defender with inside leverage so that you can run outside the defender, where you'll work away from the ball.

In the red zone the outside defenders often have to play inside leverage to defend the slant routes, rub routes, etc. That leaves the fade open, but it's really just a corner route thrown on a timing play to get the ball along the sideline where only the receiver can get it or nobody gets it.

It's closer to being an inverted corner route, where you get the most width towards the sideline right off the snap and you purposely trail towards it slowly, while leaving yourself enough room.
On a corner route, you begin straight upfield, and even ease towards the goalpost before sharply breaking out at a 45 degree angle, full-speed towards the sideline.
Fade routes near the goal line have evolved into looking more like a corner route, because so many of them are back-shoulder fades.  But a traditional, between-the-20s fade route you should be able to run under the ball and only jump up at it if it's headed out of bounds.  The end zone variety are almost exclusively the jump-ball ones.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 04:47:35 PM

Let's imagine two Teslas pull up to a charger.  One starts charging at X rate and the other also charges at X rate.  The total charge is clearly 2x rate.

Two separate battery packs, two separate chargers.  The total amount of charging is twice as fast in terms of Kwhrs per minute.

The packs happen to  be in different cars instead of one car.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 15, 2021, 04:56:55 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 15, 2021, 04:46:37 PM

It's closer to being an inverted corner route, where you get the most width towards the sideline right off the snap and you purposely trail towards it slowly, while leaving yourself enough room.
On a corner route, you begin straight upfield, and even ease towards the goalpost before sharply breaking out at a 45 degree angle, full-speed towards the sideline.
Fade routes near the goal line have evolved into looking more like a corner route, because so many of them are back-shoulder fades.  But a traditional, between-the-20s fade route you should be able to run under the ball and only jump up at it if it's headed out of bounds.  The end zone variety are almost exclusively the jump-ball ones.

seems like how the "option" "read" routes evolved

defense has inside leverage, throw the ball to the outside

defense plays outside throw the ball inside
either or, on the fly pattern or fade pattern

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2021, 05:12:28 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 04:47:35 PM

Let's imagine two Teslas pull up to a charger.  One starts charging at X rate and the other also charges at X rate.  The total charge is clearly 2x rate.

Two separate battery packs, two separate chargers.  The total amount of charging is twice as fast in terms of Kwhrs per minute.

The packs happen to  be in different cars instead of one car.

Yeah, but you're also now talking about doubling the total battery capacity, not merely splitting it into two half-sized packs. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 05:20:43 PM

It's an analogy, it makes no difference.  The charging rate is double with two separated battery packs regardless of the capacity of the batteries.

Put two half sized isolated packs in one car with two charging ports connected to two chargers.  They charge twice as fast, inherently.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2021, 05:45:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 05:20:43 PM

It's an analogy, it makes no difference.  The charging rate is double with two separated battery packs regardless of the capacity of the batteries.

Put two half sized isolated packs in one car with two charging ports connected to two chargers.  They charge twice as fast, inherently.

Only if the capability of the chargers is the limiting factor...

Look at the graph shown above, relative to the charging rate of a Model 3 Long Range plotted against the current charge state of the batteries. 

A Tesla v3 Supercharger can go 250kW. The batteries, for a VERY short time and portion of their charge capability, can exceed 250kW, but from about 21% charge until 100%, the battery is the limiting factor, not the charger. 

As mentioned, you can't look at a Tesla Model 3 LR as one "battery pack". That battery pack consists of hundreds of battery cells segmented into multiple cells per module, and the modules are then built into the overall "battery pack". I believe they're isolated at the module level. But the key factor is that the cells themselves CANNOT take charge beyond a certain rate. 

From here: https://evannex.com/blogs/news/understanding-teslas-lithium-ion-batteries

Quote

One of the key requirements for electric car batteries, especially on road trips, is that they need to be recharged relatively quickly.  Since batteries are direct current (DC) devices and home electrical service is AC, charging at home typically uses a 240 volt circuit supplying 40 amperes (about 10 kW of power).  The car has built in charging circuitry that rectifies the AC, converting it to DC.  Charging this way typically takes several hours.  Tesla has installed Supercharger DC charging stations worldwide that supply up to about 135 kW of power.  The DC bypasses the car's charging circuitry and charges the battery pack directly.  This is much faster, requiring 20 to 40 minutes typically.

The Tesla battery packs using Panasonic 18650 batteries can charge no faster than this.  The maximum charging voltage for a Panasonic cell is 4.2 volts.  Panasonic specifies a maximum charging current of 2 amperes per cell.  Tesla allows charging current to be up to 4 amperes.  Therefore the maximum power that a Tesla battery pack can can use for charging is 4.2 X N X I where N is the number of cells in the pack and I is the maximum current allowed per cell.  For 85/90 kWh packs this is 7,104 X 16.8=119.3 kW.  For the 100 kWh packs it is 8,256 X 16.8=138.7 kW.  There is no way to charge faster without increasing the maximum charging current per cell which might hasten degradation of the cells or worse.

The Tesla Model 3 cars will use the Gigafactory manufactured 2170 cells mentioned above.  The larger cells may be able to use more than 4 amperes of charging current which would hasten charging but, because the 2170 cells have more energy storage capacity than the 18650 cells, proportionately fewer will be needed to create a pack with a given kWh rating.  (N gets smaller, I gets larger). This means that higher power charging is meaningless for these battery packs.  The 4.2 X N X I relationship still applies.  It will be interesting to see how these new battery cells perform.

Note that I was off by an order of magnitude or so... Tesla battery modules consist of hundreds of cells each, and Tesla battery packs consist of thousands...

And that 2 A/cell or 4 A/cell is a maximum rate. As the above graph shows, charging slows down as you fill the battery, so this is merely PEAK charging rate.

If you split the same battery pack into two battery packs without adding cells, you have not added aggregate charge rate. Therefore isolation doesn't allow them to charge faster. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 05:48:15 PM

I'm not understanding your objection at all.  I don't think you understand my concept.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 15, 2021, 06:26:14 PM

Elon Musk hasn't thought about the concept either, apparently

makes perfect sense to this old dirt farmer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2021, 06:27:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 05:48:15 PM

I'm not understanding your objection at all.  I don't think you understand my concept.

I think I do... 

My point is that the charging speed of the battery is inherently limited by the capacity of the battery. That's it. The battery is comprised of a fixed number of cells that is the capacity of the battery divided by the capacity of each individual cell.

Those cells, even though they're integrated into a "pack", are not a single source. Those cells are built into modules, and my belief is that the modules are already isolated from each other when it comes to charging/etc. You have lots of modules within a pack. Therefore the idea of splitting "packs" has already been done. So there's no advantage to splitting into two packs when the modules are already isolated. 

So then you look at what accomplishes the isolation... You have circuitry that does that, that controls charging rates, controls regenerative braking charging rates, that controls charge dissipation, etc. 

There's no point in doubling that circuitry and isolating it into two distinct "packs", because it's inherently capable of splitting the input as needed by each individual module. 

So finally you get to the charging ports and the chargers themselves. As long as the charging port is capable of handling 250kW, and the charger is capable of handling 250kW, there is NO advantage to splitting them. 

As long as one port and one charger can supply the aggregate max charging rate of the battery, you DON'T gain any advantage by doubling ports or doubling chargers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2021, 06:43:42 PM

New neighbors are moving in next door today... Noticed when their golden retriever was peering at our golden retriever through the fence between the backyards lol... So hopefully Jake has a new friend.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Kris60 on February 15, 2021, 06:58:54 PM

What’s up with the name change, Bwar?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2021, 07:07:41 PM

Quote from: Kris60 on February 15, 2021, 06:58:54 PM

What’s up with the name change, Bwar?

Previous handle contained my actual last name, so figured I'd change to something less personally identifiable for google search reasons... Particularly when I badmouth my ex lol...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 07:09:15 PM

The charging rate obviously doubles when you use two chargers for two battery packs.  It's a simple concept.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 15, 2021, 07:20:19 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2021, 07:07:41 PM

Previous handle contained my actual last name, so figured I'd change to something less personally identifiable for google search reasons... Particularly when I badmouth my ex lol...

he's not scared, but he's a little nervous

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 15, 2021, 07:25:59 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2021, 07:07:41 PM

Previous handle contained my actual last name, so figured I'd change to something less personally identifiable for google search reasons... Particularly when I badmouth my ex lol...

is there a meaning to the 4 Greek letters you use in your name?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2021, 07:33:42 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 07:09:15 PM

The charging rate obviously doubles when you use two chargers for two battery packs.  It's a simple concept.

Not at all... Again...

Quote

The Tesla battery packs using Panasonic 18650 batteries can charge no faster than this.  The maximum charging voltage for a Panasonic cell is 4.2 volts.  Panasonic specifies a maximum charging current of 2 amperes per cell.  Tesla allows charging current to be up to 4 amperes.  Therefore the maximum power that a Tesla battery pack can can use for charging is 4.2 X N X I where N is the number of cells in the pack and I is the maximum current allowed per cell.  For 85/90 kWh packs this is 7,104 X 16.8=119.3 kW.  For the 100 kWh packs it is 8,256 X 16.8=138.7 kW.  There is no way to charge faster without increasing the maximum charging current per cell which might hasten degradation of the cells or worse.

If you have a 100kWh pack, that's comprised of individual cells which limit the aggregate charging power. 

Maximum possible charging power is 138.7 kW. 

If you have a 50kWh pack, maximum charging power is half that, or 69.4 kW.

You're saying that by cutting the packs in half, and separating the chargers, you can achieve a maximum charging power of 2x of 138.7 kW, or 277.4 kW.

But that's not possible. By breaking the packs in two, you haven't doubled the number of cells. Therefore you haven't increased the aggregate maximum charging power. 

AS I HAVE CONCEDED, if the charger isn't capable of achieving the maximum charging power, there is an advantage to putting multiple chargers in parallel. But as long as you have an adequate charger, there is NOT a doubling of charging rate. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2021, 07:33:52 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 15, 2021, 07:25:59 PM

is there a meaning to the 4 Greek letters you use in your name?

Spelling.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 07:36:38 PM

I disagree obviously, and all your folderol is unconvincing and off point.

Charging rate will be double, it's inherent.

Two cars charge as double the rate as one car.  Three cars would triple the rate of recharge.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 15, 2021, 07:47:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 07:36:38 PM

I disagree obviously, and all your folderol is unconvincing and off point.

Charging rate will be double, it's inherent.

Two cars charge as double the rate as one car.  Three cars would triple the rate of recharge. 

how fast can EVs go

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 07:51:00 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 15, 2021, 07:47:25 PM

how fast can EVs go

It depends on the EV of course, but they go in excess of 100 mph in nearly every case.

The Chevy Bolt will do 140 mph and get 0-60 in 5.3 seconds.  They tend to be pretty quick, a lot of torque off the line.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2021, 08:04:15 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 07:36:38 PM

I disagree obviously, and all your folderol is unconvincing and off point.

Charging rate will be double, it's inherent.

Two cars charge as double the rate as one car.  Three cars would triple the rate of recharge. 

Two 100 kWh cars will charge at double the rate of one 100 kWh car.

Two 50 kWh cars will charge at the same rate of one 100 kWh car.

What's so hard to understand? The charging rate is limited by the battery capacity. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 08:06:59 PM

I disagree entirely.  Charging rate is charging rate independent of battery capacity.

I don't understand all your posts, and didn't bother reading them.  I could be wrong, but it seems straightforward to me.

If I hook up a Volt, it charges at the same rate initially as a depleted Tesla with double or triple the battery capacity.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 08:08:27 PM

If I have one 10 L bucket and one hose to fill it with water, it will fill at half the rate of two 5 L buckets and two hoses.

I get 10 L twice as fast with two hoses.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2021, 08:19:36 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 08:06:59 PM

I disagree entirely.  Charging rate is charging rate independent of battery capacity.

I don't understand all your posts, and didn't bother reading them.  I could be wrong, but it seems straightforward to me.

If I hook up a Volt, it charges at the same rate initially as a depleted Tesla with double or triple the battery capacity.

A Tesla contains thousands of individual batteries. The individual batteries are rated to X amperes of maximum charging current. A battery pack is limited to X*N (N being the number of cells to create the pack) of maximum charging current. 

Splitting that battery "pack" in half means that you have two batteries each of N/2 size. So each pack can take X*N/2 maximum charging current, which means your total charging current for two packs is 2*X*N/2, or X*N. You've changed nothing by doubling the number of charging ports or chargers. 

If splitting the packs in half and doubling the number of charging ports would increase recharge rate, why would Elon Musk not have done it at this point? 

BTW if you hook up a Volt to a 250 kW Tesla v3 Supercharger, it won't fill at 250 kW, because the battery can't accept that much current. 

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 08:08:27 PM

If I have one 10 L bucket and one hose to fill it with water, it will fill at half the rate of two 5 L buckets and two hoses.

I get 10 L twice as fast with two hoses.

The problem is that you're ONLY looking at this from the flow rate of the source. You're not looking at it from the rate at which the battery can accept charge, which is the limiting factor.

If the hose output is the same, then you'll fill one 10L bucket twice as fast with two hoses as you will with one. Along the same lines, if you have two 5L buckets, you'll fill them with 2 hoses AT THE SAME RATE as you will fill one 10L bucket with two hoses. It doesn't matter whether it's one 10L bucket or two 5L buckets if the hose flow rate is the key.

What I'm saying is that with batteries, it is NOT the hose flow rate that is the limiting factor--it is the battery cell maximum charging current. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 15, 2021, 08:28:07 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 07:51:00 PM

It depends on the EV of course, but they go in excess of 100 mph in nearly every case.

The Chevy Bolt will do 140 mph and get 0-60 in 5.3 seconds.  They tend to be pretty quick, a lot of torque off the line.

so, they should probably install little windmills to generate electricity to help charge the battery
and those fancy brakes that generate electricity

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 10:43:36 PM

Which takes less time to recharge from empty?

A car with a 50 KwHr battery, or one with a 100?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 10:44:34 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 15, 2021, 08:28:07 PM

so, they should probably install little windmills to generate electricity to help charge the battery
and those fancy brakes that generate electricity

They do have regen brakes.  No windmills of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 15, 2021, 10:54:49 PM

apparently the drag from the windmills isn't worth the added generation

I was thinking those few small spots where air is allowed to flow for cooling.  I understand the electric motor may produce much less heat, so no need for a radiator.  But, probably air cooled engine, keep batteries cool, brakes?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 11:01:10 PM

The batteries do have cooling systems. Regen braking does not get hot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2021, 07:02:01 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 15, 2021, 10:54:49 PM

apparently the drag from the windmills isn't worth the added generation

I thought you were kidding.  There is a real limit on windmill efficiency, under 50%.  So, you'd be producing drag and generating 40% of the energy lost to the drag.  Otherwise you'd have a perpetual motion machine.

Regen braking is a real thing and works.  You can set many EVs for driving without ever using your brake pedal, when you release the accelerator the regen brakes activate slightly and you slow down faster than you would normally.  It's a bit like gearing down except you recover energy.


Fast and Ultra-fast Chargers - Battery University

 (https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/ultra_fast_chargers)How Long Does It Take to Charge an Electric Car? | Pod Point (pod-point.com)

The time it takes to charge an electric car can be as little as 30 minutes or more than 12 hours. This depends on the size of the battery and the speed of the charging point. (https://pod-point.com/guides/driver/how-long-to-charge-an-electric-car#:~:text=The time it takes to,with a 7kW charging point.)

• A typical electric car (60kWh battery) takes just under 8 hours to charge from empty-to-full with a 7kW charging point.
• Most drivers top up charge rather than waiting for their battery to recharge from empty-to-full.
• For many electric cars, you can add up to 100 miles of range in ~35 minutes with a 50kW rapid charger.
• The bigger your car’s battery and the slower the charging point, the longer it takes to charge from empty to full.

(https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/ultra_fast_chargers) (https://pod-point.com/guides/driver/how-long-to-charge-an-electric-car#:~:text=The time it takes to,with a 7kW charging point.)
This last point is obvious.  A larger battery takes longer to recharge empty to full.The ratio is not linear of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 16, 2021, 07:38:13 AM

I'm still going with a trade-out station. 
Drive in, it's like an oil change setup, boom, they scan my car's sticker, it's one of the 3-6 common battery sizes every station has plenty of, and the machine underneath switches it out in a minute.  The weight doesn't matter, it's just the ID of the battery size/type and payment.
.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2021, 07:55:26 AM

It would take much longer than a minute.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2021, 08:01:20 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/NX8gNsm.png)
If you can get 100 mile in half an hour of fast charging, I view this as a better option than a battery swap, which has many many difficulties.

Most folks with an EV aren't going to drive very far in a day, so the charging rate is only relevant on trips over 200-300 miles.

Think of how many batteries total would be needed for battery swap to happen, aside from other issues?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 16, 2021, 08:44:23 AM

they could also put a solar panel on the hood, roof, and trunk lid - especially in Arizona, California, ect.

I don't have a pic of the electric golf cart I've ridden in, but it was large, carried 4 golfers and clubs.  Had a large top with solar panel.  This wouldn't keep up forever, but allowed them to run all day w/o charging

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2021, 08:47:43 AM

I see sailboats with a single solar panel quite often. The owners rely on them to charge a single 12V battery. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2021, 08:47:59 AM

The amount of electricity generated by a solar panel the size of a car surface is too slight to worry about, at best 20-25 miles of range per day under ideal conditions.

Can You Buy Solar Panel Cars in 2021? | EnergySage (https://news.energysage.com/solar-panel-cars/#:~:text=If solar panel cars could,where the sun's rays hit.)

I've seen them used to power internal exhaust fans to reduce summer heat.

Hyundai Put A Solar Panel On An Electric Car But It's False Green (forbes.com) (https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2019/08/26/hyundai-put-a-solar-panel-on-an-electric-car-but-its-false-green/?sh=6bc9c25d1537)

Hyundai says their solar panel will provide enough electricity to power 808 miles of driving per year, or 2.2 per day -- if you leave the car out in the sun. That's not nothing, but it's close to nothing, so close as to not justify the cost. You also give up the opportunity for things like Tesla's panoramic roof or sunroofs. This low amount of energy is shown in the history of cars with solar panels. An early Prius with a solar panel only used it to power a fan to keep the car cool on hot days.  808 miles of electricity at home prices is worth about $22 or 6 cents/day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 16, 2021, 09:02:20 AM

It's not nothing, but it's close to nothing

agreed, but every little bit helps.

and it's green energy , not a charging station supplied by a coal or NG plant

if every car and truck in the world had solar panels........it just might add up to a small something

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2021, 09:06:55 AM

The cost benefit ratio is not good at all.  A slight benefit isn't worth it if the cost is high.

You're better off with a slightly larger battery pack.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 16, 2021, 09:19:24 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 08:06:59 PM

I disagree entirely.  Charging rate is charging rate independent of battery capacity.

I don't understand all your posts, and didn't bother reading them.  I could be wrong, but it seems straightforward to me.

If I hook up a Volt, it charges at the same rate initially as a depleted Tesla with double or triple the battery capacity.

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2021, 08:19:36 PM

A Tesla contains thousands of individual batteries. The individual batteries are rated to X amperes of maximum charging current. A battery pack is limited to X*N (N being the number of cells to create the pack) of maximum charging current.

Splitting that battery "pack" in half means that you have two batteries each of N/2 size. So each pack can take X*N/2 maximum charging current, which means your total charging current for two packs is 2*X*N/2, or X*N. You've changed nothing by doubling the number of charging ports or chargers.

If splitting the packs in half and doubling the number of charging ports would increase recharge rate, why would Elon Musk not have done it at this point?

BTW if you hook up a Volt to a 250 kW Tesla v3 Supercharger, it won't fill at 250 kW, because the battery can't accept that much current.

The problem is that you're ONLY looking at this from the flow rate of the source. You're not looking at it from the rate at which the battery can accept charge, which is the limiting factor.

If the hose output is the same, then you'll fill one 10L bucket twice as fast with two hoses as you will with one. Along the same lines, if you have two 5L buckets, you'll fill them with 2 hoses AT THE SAME RATE as you will fill one 10L bucket with two hoses. It doesn't matter whether it's one 10L bucket or two 5L buckets if the hose flow rate is the key.

What I'm saying is that with batteries, it is NOT the hose flow rate that is the limiting factor--it is the battery cell maximum charging current.

SCREW IT!!!

(https://i.imgur.com/ticPK7p.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2021, 09:20:40 AM

A 50 KwHr battery recharges with less time than a 100 battery.  It's not half the time, but it is less time.  Obviously.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2021, 09:27:28 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 16, 2021, 09:19:24 AM

SCREW IT!!!

(https://i.imgur.com/ticPK7p.png)

Horses fart.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 16, 2021, 09:55:01 AM

So do power plants some hay/alfalfa and you're back in the mix

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2021, 09:58:38 AM

We do burn biomass for energy, it's a small contributor.  Biomass generally contains a lot of water and that is a problem.  The same is true with municipal waste, only worse, way too much water to burn, so they fire the plants with NG to generate enough heat to get rid of the water as steam so the biomass can burn.

Water is bad in a combustible fuel, an energy soak.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2021, 10:01:27 AM

Engineer Who Compared Tesla Model 3 Quality To 'A Kia In The '90s' Buys Another Model 3. Here's What He Found (jalopnik.com) (https://jalopnik.com/engineer-who-compared-tesla-model-3-quality-to-a-kia-in-1846071616?utm_campaign=Jalopnik&utm_content=1611168003&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1r1QAhLHKMnHzonChFVkj9PrSr0xL4gnuRYZ9D_EwK3Isnf8K4gPKRtpI)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2021, 10:10:41 AM

2021 BMW i4: What We Know So Far (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/i4?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&fbclid=IwAR1Cv7vQmt64Tm8GHIMndBQay04rlkFFmMpYvYs9YjkTyHRV-IDFdZZnjWY)

BMW says the i4 will have the ability to travel up to 372 miles on a full battery. However, that estimate is based on the European testing cycle that is much more generous than the EPA range cycle that we use here in America. Along with a battery pack that measures about 80.0-kWh, the i4 will have a 150-kilowatt charging capacity can provide up to 80-percent of the car's driving range in just 35 minutes.

If I can drive 250 miles and fast charge to 80% in 35 minutes, I won't need any battery swap thing.  That gives me 400 miles in range easily with one 35 minute break.  The  tech is evolving fairly rapidly.  We will need more charging points.  Crackerbarrel?

Our condo is adding them now on some spots.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 16, 2021, 10:19:57 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/NxjZByE.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/83SSayJ.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/IjVAdld.png)

(https://attachment.outlook.live.net/owa/MSA%3Amrnubbz%40hotmail.com/service.svc/s/GetAttachmentThumbnail?id=AQMkADAwATY3ZmYAZS04NzM1LWViZmEtMDACLTAwCgBGAAADIvK1pE0uIE2AKvwm%2F7BZTwcACknFrdWf8066Dgde7jPs8gAAAgEPAAAACknFrdWf8066Dgde7jPs8gAE%2F1%2FkDgAAAAESABAAEPVI8QlamkqMMVtVHN4dYQ%3D%3D&thumbnailType=2&isc=1&token=eyJhbGciOiJSUzI1NiIsImtpZCI6IjMwODE3OUNFNUY0QjUyRTc4QjJEQjg5NjZCQUY0RUNDMzcyN0FFRUUiLCJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJ4NXQiOiJNSUY1emw5TFV1ZUxMYmlXYTY5T3pEY25ydTQifQ.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.i7h8wHaPrl9hUBIc5wO0j25y7L9rVWBPVQP0W1rj7JuFVWu0Y5SOVipNGJR2HwtdMMNg8Un0pSDk48yC-tAgB9imIJJ0dpR5F4G70aBh0CDFF0XmQBnH_qyO1mqBxi3SfhnicbRXAmYURAdawfJ2-tjVnlM4S_R7rcPit0kJn09_NuySylUdXfrc9EUKfY1ewk_CN8g9111koUSOSM0-oJM7Ro9LdLNZI2uS7zQDBCSI67pzovjiLH9W_x6TzuLTaIDLvxpltGYGbbjOuSCdCq6Nx1cooJgwAZJhK-1lSkcC6nm028FIGweaBqz17Ucp9jCuv9tV3Xpl4nzzjkWmeQ&X-OWA-CANARY=VmYDn9YnWEGSU-vYD-N5QKC-nguP0tgYNuObBqSECS7e-18xO6ZZA1xyOAbTQwqXWPA-FpQIcrE.&owa=outlook.live.com&scriptVer=20210208002.03&animation=true)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2021, 11:51:58 AM

Average EV Owner Drives Half as Many Miles as Other Drivers—Study (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35498794/ev-owners-low-mileage-study/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&fbclid=IwAR3G6sQ5lqIMrhuE63wR-trkK8tloiMxb-bLlOlLqySB0LAncXxut9SzgE4)

Makes sense of course.  My guess is that in 5-8 years, most two car households will be buying an EV when they are in the market for a new car.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 16, 2021, 12:01:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2021, 10:43:36 PM

Which takes less time to recharge from empty?

A car with a 50 KwHr battery, or one with a 100?

Ok, here's some data, based on 801 Tesla cars and their battery capacity. Full curves here: https://forum.abetterrouteplanner.com/blogs/entry/6-tesla-battery-charging-data-from-801-cars/


TL ; DR

[th]Battery Code[/th] [th]Tesla Model[/th] [th]Estimated Usable Capacity[/th] [th]10 kWh -> 50 kWh charge time[/th]
BT37	3 Long Range	72.8 kWh	23 min
BT60	S60	56.3 kWh	42 min
BT70	S70	65.7 kWh	33 min
BT85	S85	73.4 kWh	27 min
BTX4	S/X90	79.8 kWh	23 min
BTX5	S/X75	71.6 kWh	27 min
BTX6	S/X100	95.7 kWh	20 min
BTX8	Rare S/X75		25 min

So in this case they're not going to "full charge", they're seeing which batteries add 40 kWh fastest, going from 10->50. 

As a general rule, larger batteries add 40 kWh faster than smaller batteries. There is some noise in the data because these are different battery configurations, and of course the Model 3 uses a completely different battery cell than the previous Model S/X. 

But it's clear. Slowest is the [smallest] 56.3 kWh battery, next slowest is the [next smallest] 65.7 kWh battery, and the fastest is the [largest] 95.7 kWh battery. 

Note: this analysis is somewhat skewed because this was before the 250 kW Superchargers had been released. These chargers were all limited to 120 kW.

The reason for this is that charge rate is dependent on battery size and on current state of charge. 

Let's look at the charts for the second-smallest (they don't have a chart for the BT60) and the largest:


(https://i.imgur.com/Xox6Gmb.png)
As you can see, the BT70 can take all the juice the 120 kW charger can give up until about 22% charge, or about 14.5 kWh of charge. After that point the maximum charge rate it will accept decreases. By the time you get to 50 kWh of charge (~76% charge, your charging power is only 40 kW. 
(https://i.imgur.com/vvGyXJr.png)
The 95.7 kWh battery is able to charge at 120 kW charging power from about 13% (12.5 kWh of charge) up until somewhere in the high 40s percent charge, we'll estimate 47% (46kWh) from that red line, and then drops off very slowly until you get to around 58% (55.5 kWh).

Like the 65.7 kWh battery, charge rate drops off. The 40 kW charge power point for this larger battery is at say 91%, or 87 kWh...

So... The 95.7 kWh battery charges FASTER than the 65.7 kWh battery. Because it has more cells, it can accept more charging current for longer. And if you compare the curves, at any given state of charge measured in kWh rather than percent of charge, it will be charging at a FASTER rate.

Larger batteries charge at a faster rate than smaller. It's the nature of the technology. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 16, 2021, 12:33:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 16, 2021, 10:10:41 AM

If I can drive 250 miles and fast charge to 80% in 35 minutes, I won't need any battery swap thing.  That gives me 400 miles in range easily with one 35 minute break.  The  tech is evolving fairly rapidly.  We will need more charging points.  Crackerbarrel?

Our condo is adding them now on some spots.

over 740 miles to my brother's place in Dallas
I'd have to stop twice and add an hour to an 11 hour trip.

I suppose someday that will be normal.  Or batteries and EVs will evolve and improve.

or I could swap batteries at AfroMan's kiosk along the Kansas Turnpike

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 16, 2021, 01:44:11 PM

for my buddies enjoying the weather in Florida.............

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/148124944_2928133534073263_3904969515309842444_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=V1C43fAFXXQAX99LcdJ&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=7ec2d6037b66fc6289625594a7d210e1&oe=60508423)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2021, 02:00:07 PM

I have a method to keep those away.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 16, 2021, 02:12:01 PM

A basket and a flute?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2021, 02:24:44 PM

I'm a pretty good shot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2021, 02:49:08 PM

I asked a simple question, does a 50 Kwhr battery reach full charge in less time than a 100?

The answer is clearly yes, all else being equal.  It takes less time to charge a smaller battery from near empty to near full.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2021, 03:19:34 PM

I don't know much about these batteries, except that they are really heavy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 16, 2021, 03:28:56 PM

and the batteries are produced by horrendous damage to the earth with child slave labor

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2021, 03:30:54 PM

It's obvious a 50 battery will reach full charge faster than a 100 battery.  I provided links on that.  It's not half the time, I get that, not my point at all.

Alphabet continues to show data irrelevant to my core point.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 16, 2021, 04:41:50 PM

That snake pic is one big plus for living north of I-4 rather than south of it.  The scariest thing I ever saw growing up was a behemoth, prehistoric alligator snapping turtle.  

It will remove your digits if you mess with it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2021, 05:00:06 PM

Too cold up there. It's noticeable. I was looking in Clearwater and ruled it out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 16, 2021, 05:37:46 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 16, 2021, 03:30:54 PM

It's obvious a 50 battery will reach full charge faster than a 100 battery.  I provided links on that.  It's not half the time, I get that, not my point at all.

Alphabet continues to show data irrelevant to my core point.

Here's what your link said:

Empty-to-full time to charge with different chargepoint speeds:

[th]Vehicle[/th] [th]Empty to full charging time***[/th]
Model	Battery	Pod Point Confidence Range*	3.7kW slow	7kW fast	22kW fast	43-50kW rapid	150kW rapid
Nissan LEAF (2018) (https://pod-point.com/guides/vehicles/nissan/2018/leaf)	40kWh	143 miles	11 hrs	6 hrs	6 hrs	1 hr	Can't charge on this kind of charger
Tesla Model S (2019) (https://pod-point.com/guides/vehicles/tesla/2019/model-s)**	75kWh	238 miles	21 hrs	11 hrs	5 hrs	2 hrs	<1 hr
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (2018) (https://pod-point.com/guides/vehicles/mitsubishi/2018/outlander-phev)	13.8kWh	24 miles	4 hrs	4 hrs	4 hrs	40 mins	Can't charge on this kind of charger

If you are limited by the power output of your charging station, then yes your charge time is proportional to your battery capacity.

What I've been telling you is that if you're not limited by the output of the charging station, then a larger battery has a higher charge rate.

As long as you're not limited by the output of the charging station, a 50 kWh battery and a 100 kWh battery, if they're made up of the same core cells and module configutation, should both reach full charge at or very close to the same time. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 16, 2021, 05:55:31 PM

Finally found a chart that shows it...

It's based on data taken from real-world tests of various models when plugged into Superchargers, as shown in YouTube videos of the actual charging as reported by the car. This is the best apples-to-apples because it's all Tesla Model S/X which use similar battery chemistries and cells. 

Time to full charge is not dependent on battery size. 

https://forums.tesla.com/discussion/48062/model-s-supercharging-times-compared-s60-s70d-s85-p85d-s85d

(https://i.imgur.com/J1GoBSn.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2021, 05:21:31 AM

I agree the larger battery has a faster charge rate, that isn't my point. 

I showed data showing my point.  I think my point is correct.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 17, 2021, 08:38:10 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 16, 2021, 04:41:50 PM

That snake pic is one big plus for living north of I-4 rather than south of it.  The scariest thing I ever saw growing up was a behemoth, prehistoric alligator snapping turtle. 

It will remove your digits if you mess with it. 

we have snappin turtles up here
size of garbage can lids

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 17, 2021, 09:24:08 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/sUBx6t0.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 17, 2021, 10:01:53 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 17, 2021, 05:21:31 AM

I agree the larger battery has a faster charge rate, that isn't my point.

I showed data showing my point.  I think my point is correct.

Okay, let's try this another way...

Charger A - holds 4x AA batteries:
(https://i.imgur.com/NXk8iw6.png)

Charger B - holds 8x AA batteries:

(https://i.imgur.com/aM1F1VS.png)

Charger C - holds 16x AA batteries:

(https://i.imgur.com/nDA41vB.png)

So let's think about some charging scenarios. For the purposes of the below scenarios, every single AA battery used in the below scenarios are 100% identical and empty of charge.

• Charger A with 1 battery
• Charger B with 1 battery
• Charger C with 1 battery
• Charger A with 4 batteries
• Charger B with 4 batteries
• Charger C with 4 batteries
• Charger B with 8 batteries
• Charger C with 8 batteries
• Charger C with 16 batteries

Every individual AA cell is identical. I postulate to you that the charging times of every scenario 1-9, for however many batteries are in the chargers to all go empty to full, in the above scenarios are the same. 


Would you agree?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2021, 10:35:44 AM

I may be stubborn, dumb, and slow, but I finally get it.  A 5 L bucket fills faster than a 10 L bucket IFF the hose is small, but if the hose provides 100 L per second, there is minimal difference.

The both fill in a fraction of a second.

So only if the hose is slow is there a difference.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 17, 2021, 10:43:30 AM

I haven't seen this here, so forgive me if it's been touched on - but what would the battery-producers want to happen?  What system would net them the most money, long-term?  
Charging stations using "the grid" to recharge their batteries, or their batteries populating every existing gas station across the country, being switched out every few hundred miles?  
This being a new-ish tech and has yet be become "the way," they have a say in how things progress, no?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 17, 2021, 10:48:33 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 17, 2021, 10:35:44 AM

I may be stubborn, dumb, and slow, but I finally get it.  A 5 L bucket fills faster than a 10 L bucket IFF the hose is small, but if the hose provides 100 L per second, there is minimal difference.

The both fill in a fraction of a second.

So only if the hose is slow is there a difference.

Almost...

The key to the analogy is that the 100 kWh battery is NOT a 10 gal bucket while the 50 kWh battery is a 5 gal bucket... It's that the 100 kWh battery is already (2) 5 gal buckets. So the amount of time it takes to fill (2) 5 gal buckets is the same as the time it takes to fill (1) 5 gal bucket as long as it's done in parallel by splitting the hose into two outlets. You're filling at twice the rate but it takes the same time.

Or more accurately, the 100 kWh battery is (5000) 100 cc vials and the 50 kWh battery is (2500) 100 cc vials. If the flow rate is limited at the vial level, having double the number will increase the aggregate flow rate, but not increase or decrease the aggregate fill time. 

BEV battery packs are basically just like a couple thousand AA batteries all wired up in parallel and each battery has its own maximum flow rate. As long as the "hose" is large enough, the amount of time it takes to charge several thousand batteries is the same amount of time it takes to charge one battery. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2021, 11:23:01 AM

My analogies have to be ultra simple.

I'm sure battery producers would like a huge market, but so would charging stations.  The improvements in charging, to me, look impressive and not really problematic longer term, if you use a fire hose.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 17, 2021, 12:25:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 17, 2021, 11:23:01 AM

My analogies have to be ultra simple.

I'm sure battery producers would like a huge market, but so would charging stations.  The improvements in charging, to me, look impressive and not really problematic longer term, if you use a fire hose.

I think the AA battery charger is the best analogy.

Here are the batteries used in the Tesla Model S/X (left) and used in the Model 3/Y (right).

(https://i.imgur.com/ZBAsxlH.png)

Nobody really thinks of a BEV battery pack being full of thousands of little cylindrical batteries that look like a AA (but a bit bigger), but that's reality.

Hence the only difference between a 60 kWh battery pack and a 100 kWh battery pack is not that the batteries are larger, but that there are more of them.

Each individual battery is charge rate limited, and identical across batteries. The maximum charge RATE (measured in kW) of a 100 kWh battery pack is higher than a 60 kWh battery pack because there are more cells, but the maximum charge rate of each cell is the same. Each individual battery will reach its maximum charge at roughly the same time, if each individual battery is being charged to the maximum charge rate that it will accept.

So a 60 kWh battery pack and a 100 kWh battery pack will take the same time to charge AS LONG AS the charger power is high enough to achieve the maximum flow rate of a battery pack with 66% more batteries within it.

If you have a big hose, they'll charge in the same amount of time. But if you have a tiny hose, then the 100 kWh pack will take longer to fill than the 60 kWh. 

tl;dr -- The size of your hose matters ;-)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 17, 2021, 02:11:06 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 17, 2021, 10:43:30 AM

I haven't seen this here, so forgive me if it's been touched on - but what would the battery-producers want to happen?  What system would net them the most money, long-term? 
Charging stations using "the grid" to recharge their batteries, or their batteries populating every existing gas station across the country, being switched out every few hundred miles? 
This being a new-ish tech and has yet be become "the way," they have a say in how things progress, no?

To an extent they don't really have much say, no.

• The battery producers can't tell the car companies whether they have to build batteries into the car as a static part or whether they have to make them replaceable modules. 
• To some extent (such as with Tesla), the battery producers ARE the car companies. There may be a push to become vertically integrated in battery production for BEVs because it's such a high proportion of the car's Bill of Materials [BOM] cost. Even if it doesn't make commercial sense for an automaker to be fully vertically integrated, two might form a joint venture on the battery side so they can share that technology even if they're competitors elsehwere. (There's precedence for this in my industry--Intel and Micron previously had a joint venture in NAND and DRAM, and my company and Kioxia currently have a joint venture in NAND, despite that all 4 of those companies are competitors in the market). 
• Even if the battery vendors want things to be done one way, if the technical hurdles of battery swap technology simply don't make technical sense, and charger technology continues to improve, then battery swaps fail the market test.

To be honest, I think we've brought up and you haven't (that I've seen) acknowledged my point about the additional structural rigidity and other engineering challenges associated with battery swaps. 

I know it seems like it's easy technically and logistically--but I suspect it's FAR more complex than you are suggesting. Heck, based on just the top-level issues I can envision, I would almost say I *know* it's far more complex than you're suggesting. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 17, 2021, 02:24:49 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 17, 2021, 08:38:10 AM

we have snappin turtles up here
size of garbage can lids

Make some soup - delicious

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 17, 2021, 03:36:39 PM

Just ordered this one.

(https://i.imgur.com/WbG2RLW.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 17, 2021, 04:18:51 PM

-Why we cannot believe anything they say:
[font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif]A politician finally breaks down and visits a remote northern state Indian reservation.
With news crews following him around as they tour the place,the senator asks the chief if there was anything the people need.
 
"Well," says the chief, "We have three very important needs:
First, we have a medical clinic…. but no doctor."
 
The senator whips out his cell phone; dials a number;
talks to somebody for two minutes…. and then hangs up.
"I've pulled some strings. Your doctor will arrive in a few days.  Now what was the second problem?"

"We have no way to get clean water.   The local mining operation has poisoned the water our people have been drinking for thousands of years.  We've been flying bottled water in, and it's terribly expensive."

Once again, the senator whips out his cell phone; dials a number; yells into the phone for a few minutes….. and then hangs up.  "The mine has been shut down, and the owner is being billed for setting up a purification plant for your people.

Now what was that third problem?"
"We have no cell phone reception up here," the chief says.[/font][/font]

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 17, 2021, 07:31:06 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 17, 2021, 02:11:06 PM

I know it seems like it's easy technically and logistically--but I suspect it's FAR more complex than you are suggesting. Heck, based on just the top-level issues I can envision, I would almost say I *know* it's far more complex than you're suggesting.

I understand, but I'd add in the word "now."  
.
I just figure we're like a 3-month old baby right now when it comes to the lifetime of how widespread and total electric transportation will be.  We're back in 1907 cranking the front of our motor carriage.  I think what' I'm suggesting will be simpler and easier in the near future.  And I could be wrong.  
Time will tell.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2021, 06:41:51 AM

Folks have noted some rather daunting challenges with battery swaps as a concept.  Someone could address those issues by suggesting some technological innovation that plausibly could resolve them.  The obvious one is how batteries today are integral parts of the frame and generate rigidity which is critical in cars.

A big change in cars of today versus say 1970 is frame rigidity.  It's probably not as significant as fuel injection and cats and electronics, but it's up there in terms of how a car performs on the highway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 18, 2021, 09:28:02 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/XD5yqb5.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/HcOPPP4.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 18, 2021, 09:28:50 AM

Definitely drinking too much these days.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 18, 2021, 10:43:47 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2021, 06:41:51 AM

Folks have noted some rather daunting challenges with battery swaps as a concept.  Someone could address those issues by suggesting some technological innovation that plausibly could resolve them.  The obvious one is how batteries today are integral parts of the frame and generate rigidity which is critical in cars.

A big change in cars of today versus say 1970 is frame rigidity.  It's probably not as significant as fuel injection and cats and electronics, but it's up there in terms of how a car performs on the highway.

All of this could be moot - the frame rigidity talk made me think, "hey, when none of us even driving the vehicles, safety won't matter as much."  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 18, 2021, 11:30:21 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 18, 2021, 10:43:47 AM

All of this could be moot - the frame rigidity talk made me think, "hey, when none of us even driving the vehicles, safety won't matter as much." 

Frame rigidity isn't nearly as much for safety as for comfort of the occupants, as I understand it. Obviously also for handling performance, which admittedly will matter less when the cars are driven by computers and performance is less of an issue.

A rigid frame allows the tires, springs and shocks to absorb and dampen the bumps, cracks, and other disturbances on the road. Prior to unibody construction and stiff frames, those road changes would transmit through the entire car.

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 17, 2021, 07:31:06 PM

I understand, but I'd add in the word "now." 
.
I just figure we're like a 3-month old baby right now when it comes to the lifetime of how widespread and total electric transportation will be.  We're back in 1907 cranking the front of our motor carriage.  I think what' I'm suggesting will be simpler and easier in the near future.  And I could be wrong. 
Time will tell.

To be honest, this is a constant thought I hear from people with no background in engineering or other "innovative" pursuits, that someone smart will just figure it out. 

There's a degree to which that's true... It's amazing what humanity has invented over the last century and a half. 

But there are also limits. We've been "promised" a future full of flying cars since at least the 1950s/1960s. And we still don't have them. I've explained here the problem: energy. It takes zero energy to keep a car at rest on the road. Gravity pulls it down. The earth pushes it up. You're in stasis. It takes TONS of energy to keep a car aloft. Gravity pulls it down. You need to generate lift to push it up. We've not found ANY means to generate lift that doesn't use significantly more energy to operate a vehicle in the air than on the ground. In fact, we're no so much more energy-conscious that modern cars shut off their engines when they stop to save fuel. 

It's not to say that you're wrong--maybe some fantastic technology will come around and we'll have battery swaps. 

But right now we have major headwinds. Battery packs between manufacturers (and even between vehicle lines within a single manufacturer) are not standardized in any way. Battery packs weigh thousands of pounds, so there are all sorts of safety/liability concerns with a swap. And to enable battery swaps, as stated requires completely redesigning cars around a swap technology, which means adding rigidity (i.e. weight) elsewhere, making sure that the battery terminals are good for X number of insertions, that the non-fixed battery packs can stand up to the vibration, to the elements, etc that aren't as big of an issue in a fixed configuration, etc. 

All the while, the competition (charging infrastructure) is rapidly maturing to the point where you can add significant amounts of charge in very short (<30 min) timeframes, and most BEV owners charge at home otherwise so don't need rapid charging and it's only an issue on road trips. 

So you can hand-wave away ALL of the challenges and the rapid improvement of the alternative and say "well they'll just figure it out"... Or you can look at it and say maybe someday we'll have it, but the tea leaves are pointing the opposite direction for all the reasons we've already told you. 

I'm not saying we'll never have battery swaps. I'm saying that based on what I see, it's not on a time horizon where I see the logistical problems being an easier solution than rapid charging for the foreseeable future. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 18, 2021, 11:44:55 AM

relax we will invent cold fusion and all our energy problems will be solved

If OAM can rely on stuff yet to be invented then count me in for cold fusion

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 18, 2021, 12:30:34 PM

Hardy-har har.......you're right, but it's also correct to rely on the inevitable advances we make - nearly exponentially.  The only problem is, we don't know WHICH advances will occur and where.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2021, 02:11:38 PM

As noted above, frame rigidity is a very significant item for a personal vehicle in terms of comfort and handling, it matters just the same if a computer drives the vehicle.

It's immediately noticeable if you drive some 1960s car with a bit of verve.  Get in a V8 1966 Camaro and see how the frame twists with a bump or hard cornering.  Of course, the suspensions then were crude as well and that too is a factor.

It seems to me that fast charging is pretty decent now even if my brilliantly flawed notion was hogwash.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 18, 2021, 02:39:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2021, 02:11:38 PM

It's immediately noticeable if you drive some 1960s car with a bit of verve.  Get in a V8 1966 Camaro and see how the frame twists with a bump or hard cornering.  Of course, the suspensions then were crude as well and that too is a factor.

Not to mention tire differences over the last 55 years lol... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 18, 2021, 02:40:32 PM

I have no doubt the charging tech is good now and will be great, but I have less doubt about the masses being impatient.
.
The time it takes (or will take) to charge a car is perfectly acceptable in a vacuum, but when people are used to filling up their car with gas in 3 minutes, then a half hour to charge it becomes a problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2021, 02:42:39 PM

I am amazed how much better tires are even from 20 years ago, much less 40.  Obviously radial tires were a sea change, but tires keep getting better when I would have guessed we were near the top of the S curve.

I'm also amazed how much better engines are today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2021, 02:44:34 PM

It's not much of an issue now because EVs far more often are used to drive 50 miles in a day, or so.

Range anxiety becomes a factor for long trips.  For me personally, if I drive 300 miles, I'm ready for lunch or something.  Initial cost is still an issue.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 18, 2021, 02:51:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2021, 02:44:34 PM

It's not much of an issue now because EVs far more often are used to drive 50 miles in a day, or so.

Range anxiety becomes a factor for long trips.  For me personally, if I drive 300 miles, I'm ready for lunch or something.  Initial cost is still an issue.

Yeah, on long trips, I'm one extreme or the other.....take breaks whenever, no hurry OR only pee/eat when filling up for gas straight through.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2021, 03:12:28 PM

When I was young, and cars were a new thing, I spent some time every three months changing the oil, checking fluids, maybe replacing a belt, etc.  I spent a fair bit of time once a year doing a tuneup, on that car it was a 2-3 hour job.  I'd replace shocks every 5-6 years, tires about the same maybe sooner.  

I haven't worked on a car in decades.  Mine needs an oil change once a year and that's it, for a long time.  "We" once spent a fair bit of time on our cars.  Every filling station had a lift and mechanic, nearly.  Now if you change the oil and use synthetic, they can go 6-7-8 years with no other maintenance.

I'm not a fan of fuel cells in cars.

And the other issue with flying cars is air space safety.  We'd need them to be autonomous now for that to work.  Trying to navigate in a plane on your own is entertaining, without GPS.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 18, 2021, 03:49:45 PM

Pffft, we got flying cars 6 years ago, didn't we?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 18, 2021, 04:20:34 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 17, 2021, 03:36:39 PM

Just ordered this one.

(https://i.imgur.com/WbG2RLW.png)

and you selected the correct color!
very nice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 18, 2021, 04:22:45 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 17, 2021, 02:24:49 PM

Make some soup - delicious

my uncle has served snapping turtle 5 or 6 ways.  I think the soup is the best, but I wouldn't consider it delicious

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 18, 2021, 04:32:36 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 18, 2021, 04:20:34 PM

and you selected the correct color!
very nice

It's got the lithium batteries and the brushless motor. Should purr along nicely.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 18, 2021, 04:41:19 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 18, 2021, 02:40:32 PM

I have no doubt the charging tech is good now and will be great, but I have less doubt about the masses being impatient.
.
The time it takes (or will take) to charge a car is perfectly acceptable in a vacuum, but when people are used to filling up their car with gas in 3 minutes, then a half hour to charge it becomes a problem.

Well, there are other issues.

I contend that for anyone with the capability of charging at home, there's no issue at all. 

The problem is that the US home ownership rate is only 65%. That leaves 35% of the population without the ability to install a home charger. That includes me, for example. I could certainly go BEV and I even have a garage, but my slumlord landlord isn't going to put a Level 2 charger in his rental property. So even if I was in the BEV market right now, I wouldn't do it until I own my own home.

That 65% also probably includes folks like CD who live in posh condo towers... While his tower probably already has EV charging, people who own condos or townhomes that fit into that 65% may be in situations where they don't have secure garages, and only have carports. Not to mention that portions of that 65% who are in single family homes don't have garages at all, and only have street parking. 

Right now a BEV is a luxury good and primarily owned by people who have the capability to charge at home... In order to go "down market" the home charging infrastructure will need to mature.  

Still, I view all of this as more likely than battery swaps, especially since the charging infrastructure will grow slowly over time incrementally with the growth of BEV, so it's not a "chicken & egg" problem. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2021, 04:55:51 PM

My condo tower isn't notably posh nor much of a tower and we're just now installing a few chargers.  The  building is 32 years old.  Nearly all the new apartment buildings have chargers in their garages.  The Whole Food near us has four parking places with chargers, I see them fairly often around town.

The thing about our condo is it's right on the park.  Everything else on the park is either older (much) or apartments a block or three away.  And everything nearly has "park" in the name even two blocks away.

My doctor wanted to move here but he has a Tesla.  He asked me about charging being added.  We rarely have anything for sale in the building.

My next car will probably be an EV (or just use Uber, haven't done the math on that).  Or a C8.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 18, 2021, 04:59:59 PM

I'd go with the C8 convertible

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 18, 2021, 05:01:33 PM

One environmental scientist argues that deforestation is not always harmful for the planet. Christopher A. Williams, a professor at Clark University's Graduate School of Geography (Worcester, Massachusetts), says that instead of warming up the Earth, deforestation can actually cool it down.

But some experts are concerned that Williams' work is likely to be misconstrued as permission to continue deforesting, which is not his intention.

It's widely accepted that our existing forests are vital carbon sinks, and the best course of action is to stop deforestation, while rewilding and reforesting areas already lost.

Deforestation contributes to climate change, can cause wildfires, desertification, soil erosion and most of all - releases huge amounts of carbon dioxide which causes global warming.

But there’s that word - ‘warming’.


While the above may be true, Williams’ new research argues that there are two factors we are not acknowledging: the significance of location and something known as ‘the albedo effect’.

https://www.euronews.com/living/2021/02/17/deforestation-could-be-cooling-the-planet-down-say-scientists (https://www.euronews.com/living/2021/02/17/deforestation-could-be-cooling-the-planet-down-say-scientists)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 18, 2021, 05:11:35 PM

Thats a great article except for the fact that the US has more trees growing today then it had 100 years ago

so we are doing our part

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 18, 2021, 05:42:30 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 18, 2021, 04:20:34 PM

and you selected the correct color!
very nice

He "Loves It"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 18, 2021, 05:43:38 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 18, 2021, 05:11:35 PM

Thats a great article except for the fact that the US has more trees growing today then it had 100 years ago

so we are doing our part

Wonder how many are lost to forest fires or cut down for Christmas?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 18, 2021, 05:49:06 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 18, 2021, 05:01:33 PM

One environmental scientist argues that deforestation is not always harmful for the planet. Christopher A. Williams, a professor at Clark University's Graduate School of Geography (Worcester, Massachusetts), says that instead of warming up the Earth, deforestation can actually cool it down.

I kind of doubt that how would they prove it?They haven't had check stations set up since the bronze age.On the hottest summer days walk under my 2 oaks and one maple and it's markedly cooler.More trees across the creek in the park and it'much cooler when the breeze blows

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 18, 2021, 06:16:29 PM

believe the science

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2021, 06:19:12 PM

That really is a silly mantra meaning nothing but "I'm superior to you" uttered by people who probably stopped at 8tg grade science ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 18, 2021, 06:46:58 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s600x600/151495517_1792435094265190_4249840746813720575_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=d7-CkNyWb6AAX9RI5n2&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=7&oh=f200fcc0c842065d556f153a5afe2f55&oe=6054AEE2)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2021, 06:48:07 PM

I don't imagine many are trying to drive anywhere, are they?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 18, 2021, 07:47:55 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2021, 06:48:07 PM

I don't imagine many are trying to drive anywhere, are they?

Thats what made it scary

no heat at 12 degrees and no ability to drive to shelter because of frozen conditions

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 18, 2021, 08:30:18 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2021, 06:48:07 PM

I don't imagine many are trying to drive anywhere, are they?

The people who put away enough food for a couple of weeks, but then had friends/relatives that they didn't expect show up and crash, are absolutely having to drive places now hoping to buy food to survive.

Or are you talking about something else?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 18, 2021, 08:43:19 PM

unfortunately, too many try to drive when they should not

this is nationwide, not just Texas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 18, 2021, 09:07:55 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 18, 2021, 06:46:58 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s600x600/151495517_1792435094265190_4249840746813720575_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=d7-CkNyWb6AAX9RI5n2&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=7&oh=f200fcc0c842065d556f153a5afe2f55&oe=6054AEE2)

Thankfully, you can just drive to the station and switch out your battery in 2-3 minutes!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 18, 2021, 09:08:47 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2021, 06:48:07 PM

I don't imagine many are trying to drive anywhere, are they?

If they're smart and live in civilization, they'll walk in golf cleats to acquire food.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 18, 2021, 09:14:16 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/149589369_2876049455964250_8475032570739042183_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=aLuIEZuEvssAX9RmznZ&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=7&oh=def60b20128f1ff0ac8f36be7e4f9e17&oe=6053A776)

Austin, TX, keeping it weird 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 19, 2021, 07:55:23 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2021, 06:19:12 PM

That really is a silly mantra meaning nothing but "I'm superior to you" uttered by people who probably stopped at 8tg grade science ...

Anyone who calls it "the" science is not a scientist.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2021, 08:44:48 AM

hah, merely an "expert"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 19, 2021, 08:45:54 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 18, 2021, 06:46:58 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s600x600/151495517_1792435094265190_4249840746813720575_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=d7-CkNyWb6AAX9RI5n2&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=7&oh=f200fcc0c842065d556f153a5afe2f55&oe=6054AEE2)

Lock the Thread,FF you get a Yuengling

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2021, 08:47:34 AM

if it's a lockable post, you'd think a 6er was in order

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 19, 2021, 08:59:01 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 19, 2021, 08:47:34 AM

if it's a lockable post, you'd think a 6er was in order

Tall order then how bout some Natty Lite or Lonstar - they're already cold

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2021, 09:14:58 AM

I might bump into a Lone Star in a few days

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 19, 2021, 10:51:09 AM

Stopping down for some those Fred Flinstone drive-in Ribs?If you do please don't post Pics

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2021, 11:10:35 AM

my brother has a brisket ready to go.  I've requested beef ribs and beef cheeks.

and then there's the traditional stop at BoneDaddy's

We will also be hitting up a Salt Grass Steakhouse.

Plenty of Beef and Beer.  The golf is the exercise to burn calories.  Many strokes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 19, 2021, 11:12:44 AM

Well you do swing the clubs a lot.....regardless of what the score card says

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 19, 2021, 11:23:26 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 19, 2021, 11:10:35 AM

my brother has a brisket ready to go.  I've requested beef ribs and beef cheeks.

and then there's the traditional stop at BoneDaddy's

We will also be hitting up a Salt Grass Steakhouse.

Plenty of Beef and Beer.  The golf is the exercise to burn calories.  Many strokes.

BBQ  beef cheeks are a real delicacy, so good.  Also so incredibly rich I can't eat too much in one sitting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 19, 2021, 11:35:33 AM

Just got my stimulus card thought for sure it got lost in the mail.Yuenglings all around....almost!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 19, 2021, 11:39:08 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 19, 2021, 11:23:26 AM

BBQ  beef cheeks are a real delicacy, so good.  Also so incredibly rich I can't eat too much in one sitting.

Never thought of that I suspect the damn butchers have been hoarding them for themselves because I never see them.I know I've tried walleye/pike/perch cheeks and they're all that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 19, 2021, 11:43:59 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 19, 2021, 11:39:08 AM

Never thought of that I suspect the damn butchers have been hoarding them for themselves because I never see them.I know I've tried walleye/pike/perch cheeks and they're all that

Hmmm. I may be eating Walleye and Perch for dinner tonight now that you mention it. Now I'm getting hungry. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 19, 2021, 11:48:45 AM

Do you Ice Fish?And no jokes about frying the ice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 19, 2021, 11:56:48 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 19, 2021, 11:48:45 AM

Do you Ice Fish?And no jokes about frying the ice

No, I don't even fish. But I have friends and relatives that love too. That and I allow them to use my freezer as an overflow so they don't mind contributing to my indulgence. ;)
Me personally, I couldn't catch fish with a net a Cabela's. I am horrible at fishing. But I'm pretty good at eating them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 19, 2021, 11:58:40 AM

Well there's two types of fishing - good fishing and great fishing.Great Fishing is when you actually catch something

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2021, 12:15:35 PM

very similar to golf

good is what I do, great is what accomplished players with talent do

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 19, 2021, 01:20:39 PM

They just use the foot wedge better,keep an eye on them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 19, 2021, 02:18:29 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 19, 2021, 11:12:44 AM

Well you do swing the clubs a lot.....regardless of what the score card says

Ive played many rounds of golf with the temp in the 40s

course thats when I was young and crazy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2021, 02:21:24 PM

40 is my threshold...

I won't play if it's 39, but I'll play if it's 40 or 41

same temp for riding the motorcycle

same for wearing gloves, not needed over 40

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2021, 02:58:27 PM

Not too far from us, a construction crane is apparently leaning and buildings had to be evacuated, including the medical center where we did our PT.

NEW DETAILS: Leaning crane outside Midtown high-rise could take 2 days to clear (ajc.com) (https://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-midtown-road-shut-down-due-as-crews-work-to-stabilize-crane/YXUWJLDNZRAK7GFCZFVLFGBM4Y/)

(https://i.imgur.com/TCDF7e7.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 19, 2021, 04:25:52 PM

The damage that could do - they would have to de-construct quite a bit of that structure if it collapsed in

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2021, 04:47:31 PM

Crews rush to dismantle leaning tower crane in midtown Atlanta, multiple buildings evacuated | | cbs46.com (https://www.cbs46.com/crews-rush-to-dismantle-leaning-tower-crane-in-midtown-atlanta-multiple-buildings-evacuated/video_0e1bed19-420c-506e-8a87-0e21093e061b.html?block_id=988383)

It's on 13th Street, and we live off  13th Street, but it's about 5 blocks west of us.  I drove past it on 14th Street today to go to Costco.  There were about 10 cameras set up on the corner to get film of the impending disaster.  And it's supposed to be windy tonight.

There is a sizeable apartment building right next to it.  This is an interesting project, we've watched it go up, it's a city block of condos and office space and a hotel.

West Peachtree St. is shut down and is a fairly major artery, 4 lanes one way north.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 19, 2021, 04:51:37 PM

My normal golf foursome are planning to start a simple $1 skins game for the first time this weekend. 

According to our various trackers, we have handicaps of 20, 23, 24, and... 36. 

Given how rarely anyone makes birdie in this group, a par from the 36 will likely win any hole. Even a bogey from him might win a fair number and tie a par from any of the others of us.

Oh well... Worst case loss is $18 lol...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2021, 04:59:20 PM

yup, can't lose a 20

good clean fun

some cake in the game!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 19, 2021, 05:36:01 PM

What kind of clubs do y'all recommend for a beginner? I mean, I've got good hand-eye coordination (can still hit a 90 MPH fastball) so I think I'll pick it up quick, so I don't want to go cheap.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 19, 2021, 05:56:07 PM

Louisville Slugger

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 19, 2021, 06:28:13 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 19, 2021, 05:36:01 PM

What kind of clubs do y'all recommend for a beginner? I mean, I've got good hand-eye coordination (can still hit a 90 MPH fastball) so I think I'll pick it up quick, so I don't want to go cheap.

You sure you're talking about golf? :57:

My advice for a beginner:

• Find a set of used clubs. Assuming you're of generally normal size and strength (and not yet a "senior"), basic irons with steel shafts of normal flex are fine. Really it doesn't matter much at this point.
• Take some lessons. If you're a beginner, it's better to learn things right to start rather than try to figure it out on your own and learn bad habits up front. 
• Play with those used clubs for a full season to start to get a sense of the game and your swing.
• After a season, go get professionally fit for clubs that fit your swing, and sell the used ones.

I'm a fan of professional fitting. Most of what they're working with is the part of the club that most people pay zero attention to... The shaft. But the shaft is the most important part. Beyond that the fitter will let you try out multiple clubheads and you'll go with whatever brand feels right to you. 


But think about it... If I were a beginner at baseball, and asked you what bat was best for me, you'd say "learn to swing first, son, before you start figuring out exactly what bat is perfect for you". 

That said, if you want to buy new clubs off the rack, you definitely want something in the "game improvement" category because they're most forgiving. I've heard good things about the Ping G710 series, and the Taylor Made SIM Max or P790 series, and the Callaway Mavrik irons. 

But I still say start used, learn to swing, then get fit for a real set after a season of learning.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 19, 2021, 06:37:57 PM

and get ready for disappointment and frustration 80% of the time

and sheer joy 20% of the time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Kris60 on February 19, 2021, 06:45:21 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 19, 2021, 05:36:01 PM

What kind of clubs do y'all recommend for a beginner? I mean, I've got good hand-eye coordination (can still hit a 90 MPH fastball) so I think I'll pick it up quick, so I don't want to go cheap.

You can hit a 90 mph fastball?  Hmm.  I’d like to get you in a batting cage and verify that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2021, 07:21:53 PM

When we played the former pros, the guy pitching against us told me he let it go when I was batting.  He was throwing 90 mph or close to it.  I fouled one off.  No change ups, no breaking stuff, just heat.  It gets on your quick duh, and makes evil sounds.

I can't hit 90.

A typical pitcher in fantasy league is throwing 60, a couple guys maybe 70s.

I can hit that, bring it meat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2021, 09:28:45 PM

yup, buy a used set for your first attempt

something very forgiving with a big cavity back - not blades

Golf galaxy has always treated me and others well.  There's a golf Galaxy in Naples, just south of you.

They can fit you very well, swing speed and ability

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 19, 2021, 09:30:19 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 19, 2021, 06:37:57 PM

and get ready for disappointment and frustration 80% of the time

and sheer joy 20% of the time

When you reach the clubhouse pub

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 19, 2021, 09:48:58 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 19, 2021, 09:30:19 PM

When you reach the clubhouse pub

I drink on the course. Why wait?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2021, 09:51:05 PM

amen, brother

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 20, 2021, 07:32:44 AM

Quote from: Kris60 on February 19, 2021, 06:45:21 PM

You can hit a 90 mph fastball?  Hmm.  I’d like to get you in a batting cage and verify that.

It was last summer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 20, 2021, 08:32:13 AM

Quote from: Kris60 on February 19, 2021, 06:45:21 PM

You can hit a 90 mph fastball?  Hmm.  I’d like to get you in a batting cage and verify that.

Whose going to throw it to him?

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 20, 2021, 07:32:44 AM

It was last summer.

So you stuck the bat out straight and waited - "BRILLIANT"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 20, 2021, 08:36:00 AM

You have to start your swinging motion about when the ball comes out. I probably connect with 15% or so. Then I go back to the slower cage. Heh. 

But, 15% is more than 0%, so I'll take it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 20, 2021, 08:51:03 AM

yup, like me stating that I hit my driver 280

it's maybe 15% of the time, but it's 100% of the time when I'm downhill and down wind!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 20, 2021, 09:07:16 AM

Or on a fairway that hasn't had water in a month

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 20, 2021, 09:09:22 AM

hey, Texas has snow melting today on the fairways

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 20, 2021, 09:10:03 AM

for @Cincy..............

The Last Day to Order a 2021 Corvette is June 17th

https://www.corvetteblogger.com/2021/02/19/the-last-day-to-order-a-2021-corvette-is-june-17th/ (https://www.corvetteblogger.com/2021/02/19/the-last-day-to-order-a-2021-corvette-is-june-17th/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 20, 2021, 09:14:30 AM

Just One?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 20, 2021, 10:01:25 AM

fairways or Vettes?

no, multiple

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2021, 10:10:02 AM

If a 90 mph fastball is in the same place every time, you can time it up.  With a live pitcher, that isn't happening, and at that speed it's bound to have some movement.

Our coach was Kris Medlen, he can still bring it.  Nice guy.  When you play the pros the last day, your pitching coach throws against you.  Guys like Steve Avery don't have an arm left so it's not hard.  I had Marvin Freeman one year and he could get it up there sidearm at about 85.  Nobody hit that.

I hit off Pete Smith one year and drilled a couple foul so he got nasty and brought a slider, and then laughed at me.  Pete is a good guy, they all are.  His first pitch was on the inner half and I like'em inside, I bat left handed, and I turned on it but it went foul.  

Fantasy Camp is a real highlight for me, cancelled this year.  Major bummer.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 20, 2021, 10:13:28 AM

I used to be better before the spinal fusion. Can't turn like I used to. Maybe that will be good for golf, if I take that plunge.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 20, 2021, 10:20:42 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 20, 2021, 10:10:02 AM

If a 90 mph fastball is in the same place every time, you can time it up.  With a live pitcher, that isn't happening, and at that speed it's bound to have some movement.

Chin Music

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 20, 2021, 10:22:10 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 20, 2021, 10:13:28 AM

I used to be better before the spinal fusion. Can't turn like I used to. Maybe that will be good for golf, if I take that plunge.

Swimming - helps out when the disc slips

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 20, 2021, 10:52:44 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 20, 2021, 10:20:42 AM

Chin Music

give 'em Da Heater

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2021, 12:37:33 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/Yf23Gtl.jpg)

The crane is still leaning and problematic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 20, 2021, 01:55:33 PM

Do construction outfits have like a Red Adair type?To get them out of the predicaments they've found themselves in.May need the Council of Elders from the other side to solve this.Helicopters could help if little wind :017:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 20, 2021, 04:34:39 PM

A couple weeks back, I started a cure and then smoke of about 17# of pork belly for bacon. Just sliced it all up.

Ended up with almost 120 slices of very thick cut bacon and almost 2# of chopped odds and ends for lardons to go into other recipes. 

I need a big-ass meat slicer. Slicing this crap by hand is no joke.

I also have a giant brisket in the fridge as well as about 7# of chuck. Plan is to grind the chuck and the brisket point for a burger blend, and then use the brisket flat for homemade corned beef. My wife has some Irish heritage and corned beef on St Patrick's day is a tradition, but this will be the first time we've actually cured our own from scratch. 

Tonight we're doing our Valentine's Day dinner since we had the kids last weekend. Making a big filet paired with a very large (>1#) lobster tail, paired with some sous vide asparagus with hollandaise. Planning on raiding the wine cellar* for one of our really good bottles.

We've got a bunch of leftover whole milk and heavy cream from recipes and making vanilla ice cream last weekend with the kids, so we're going to start a batch of coffee & chocolate chip ice cream today too. 

All that after taking the dog on a 3+ mi walk to start the day, and fitting in the Purdue game at 2:30.

Busy day. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 20, 2021, 04:35:59 PM

You have too much bacon.  I'll do you a solid and take some of it off your hands.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 20, 2021, 04:38:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 20, 2021, 10:10:02 AM

If a 90 mph fastball is in the same place every time, you can time it up.  With a live pitcher, that isn't happening, and at that speed it's bound to have some movement.

Our coach was Kris Medlen, he can still bring it.  Nice guy.  When you play the pros the last day, your pitching coach throws against you.  Guys like Steve Avery don't have an arm left so it's not hard.  I had Marvin Freeman one year and he could get it up there sidearm at about 85.  Nobody hit that.

I hit off Pete Smith one year and drilled a couple foul so he got nasty and brought a slider, and then laughed at me.  Pete is a good guy, they all are.  His first pitch was on the inner half and I like'em inside, I bat left handed, and I turned on it but it went foul. 

Fantasy Camp is a real highlight for me, cancelled this year.  Major bummer. 

Reminds me of a question - if you had 100 at-bats how many hits would you get off of a MLB pitcher.  
The answer is NONE.
.
If they're being nice and not mixing it up too much, you'll hit a few foul and then hit some fair and a few would get through as hits.  But if they're in game-mode with grit in their teeth, none of us is hitting much of anything in 100 tries.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 20, 2021, 04:42:06 PM

(https://cdnassets.hw.net/e8/c4/7e71beaa4b1d899601e33cebe2ff/tmpbb29-2etmp-tcm20-730506.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 20, 2021, 05:01:46 PM

Big Ten Lacrosse 
.
Week 1 
#8 OSU beat #19 Hopkins, 14-8
#17 Rutgers beat #9 PSU, 11-9
#5 Maryland edged the unranked Wolverines, 20-9
.
Standings 
1-0 OSU, Rutgers and Maryland
0-1 PSU, Hopkins and the Wolverines

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/owdsb-oE61glwZL3tcKq86EMu7s=/0x0:598x399/1200x800/filters:focal(0x0:598x399)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/49225833/Michigan_vs_Maryland_2016.0.0.jpeg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 20, 2021, 05:43:12 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 20, 2021, 04:35:59 PM

You have too much bacon.  I'll do you a solid and take some of it off your hands.

Hey, if you were local, I'd throw you some bacon. Why not?

As it is, bacon is EXTREMELY easy to make, and better [and cheaper] than the store-bought stuff. You could do this quite easily yourself... I'd be more than happy to guide you through the process. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 20, 2021, 08:31:37 PM

Maybe send it in a bubble mailer?  Aged bacon is still bacon, right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 20, 2021, 08:35:18 PM

I always wondered what an unsliced slab of bacon would taste like, grilled like a steak or whatever. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 20, 2021, 11:39:55 PM

I vaguely remember the America's cup being a big deal when I was young. It's on NBCSN right now, and whatever the hell they are racing, is barely a boat

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 20, 2021, 11:50:57 PM

Closer to being airplanes than ships.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2021, 06:54:24 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/X2pez5o.jpg)

I took this yesterday.  They are building another crane in order to take this leaning crane down, probably take most of the weekend.  This is less than a mile from us, the Whole Foods entrance on the right was shut down.  I think one could enter through the garage below, but these businesses are getting hurt.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2021, 06:58:38 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/UR5ibUf.png)

This is from the paper.  The operator was in the booth when it failed.  And the Construction company wishes it didn't have its name on the crane now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 21, 2021, 09:55:30 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 21, 2021, 06:58:38 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/UR5ibUf.png)

This is from the paper.  The operator was in the booth when it failed.  And the Construction company wishes it didn't have its name on the crane now.

they probably got a bunch of yellow and brown stuff to clean off the seat

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2021, 09:58:00 AM

Yeah, he's 400 feet up and the crane starts to tilt and make noises ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 21, 2021, 10:05:30 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 21, 2021, 09:55:30 AM

they probably got a bunch of yellow and brown stuff to clean off the seat

The seat and the street. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 21, 2021, 12:17:27 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 20, 2021, 04:34:39 PM

I need a big-ass meat slicer. Slicing this crap by hand is no joke.

I'm sure the dog could help you out

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 21, 2021, 03:21:51 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on February 20, 2021, 05:01:46 PM

Big Ten Lacrosse
.
Week 1
#8 OSU beat #19 Hopkins, 14-8
#17 Rutgers beat #9 PSU, 11-9
#5 Maryland edged the unranked Wolverines, 20-9
.
Standings
1-0 OSU, Rutgers and Maryland
0-1 PSU, Hopkins and the Wolverines

Most importantly, order has finally been restored in the wlax edition of THE GAME, bringing things back to normalcy. 


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EuxsU0VVcAE-axW?format=jpg&name=small)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2021, 03:43:24 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/i93r7oC.png)+

A lot of equipment in the street, they plan to construct another crane to take down the broken one.  We walked over again today after lunch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2021, 03:49:38 PM

I had ordered ten of my paperbacks and they finally arrived.  They did a first rate job with them, I'm going to go ahead with Book Two.  I'm going to shop my book at a local shop that caters to local writers.

If there is a way to get an "in" with an agent or publisher, I can't find it.  I should give the publisher more time of course, I'm sure they get bombarded.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2021, 11:23:58 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/AjrWEyC.jpg)

Work continues to bring down unstable crane in Atlanta this weekend (ajc.com) (https://www.ajc.com/news/work-progresses-to-remove-teetering-crane-outside-midtown-high-rise/PWRRR4VR7NDXTC6SJ3X6TPO5TE/?fbclid=IwAR1R1PQJlivWdYJ9rjpvdjMqMYxRoZ1mbLE-926TAe9p0BWE4vBp4Oiiyc0)

The two "mobile assist cranes" weight 600 and 900 tons each.  This is pretty amazing to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2021, 11:48:49 AM

I'm trying to imagine the cost of bringing in two huge "mobile" cranes on a weekend, plus paying for lodging for hundreds of displaced apartment dwellers.

And the local medical center is closed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 22, 2021, 05:40:12 PM

(https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/150908837_10224913302566697_6572326918313310347_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=-l-BPPAxd9sAX-Anfst&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=a9ee735c198cbe0d74517f9b143d65ba&oe=6058C4AA)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 22, 2021, 05:56:14 PM

Well, Texans might have rioted or looted or engaged in violence...

...but it was too cold for them to go out of doors ;-) 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 22, 2021, 06:09:24 PM

rioting in your own home gets old

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 22, 2021, 06:27:08 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 22, 2021, 06:09:24 PM

rioting in your own home gets old

And expensive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2021, 06:34:27 PM

We had so many families and extra pets packed into my house that it was pretty much a slightly controlled riot for about 4 days.

Before all that stuff went down I had considered grabbing my RV and parking it alongside the house.  Now, I wish I'd done just that!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 22, 2021, 07:29:38 PM

I called our electric supplier and asked if I was going to get an electric bill for thousands like some folks have had happen and they just laughed and told me absolutely not

we are on a fixed plan

so I got that going for me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 22, 2021, 09:54:29 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 22, 2021, 05:40:12 PM

(https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/150908837_10224913302566697_6572326918313310347_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=-l-BPPAxd9sAX-Anfst&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=a9ee735c198cbe0d74517f9b143d65ba&oe=6058C4AA)

What a bizarre brag.  
I wonder what the history says about looting in near-zero temps.  Probably not a lot, huh?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 22, 2021, 09:57:11 PM

So 10 days after capsizing their space-aged flying sailboat, the US team got spanked by Italy, but the American ship's peak speed was the highest of the day @ 53 knots (62 mph).  They had a hole in the hull from a ripped-out foil and had to re-wire the entire ship.

It's crazy.
A sailboat.  60+ mph.  What???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2021, 07:09:38 AM

Perseverance's Video Cameras Capture Its Arrival On Mars (There's Audio, Too) : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2021/02/22/970245456/watch-perseverances-video-cameras-capture-its-arrival-on-mars-theres-audio-too?utm_medium=social&utm_term=nprnews&utm_campaign=npr&utm_source=facebook.com&fbclid=IwAR1G5CYp3jhJhgZrlhppr6YTJh4qmBZ4aOmEvTHeEoPArFPyIMtgs6KN6A0)

Pretty neat short film with audio of the landing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 23, 2021, 07:26:47 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 19, 2021, 06:37:57 PM

and get ready for disappointment and frustration 80% of the time

and sheer joy 20% of the time

I'm still searching for that 20%.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2021, 07:38:59 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/rVKFrtR.jpg)

The crane saga is continuing.  Pretty amazing (and expensive) operation.

Crews continue working to bring down unstable crane in Atlanta (fox5atlanta.com) (https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/crews-continue-working-to-bring-down-unstable-crane-in-atlanta)

We live nearly a mile east of this, 5-6 blocks, so it doesn't impact us.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 23, 2021, 08:20:51 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 23, 2021, 07:38:59 AM

We live nearly a mile east of this, 5-6 blocks, so it doesn't impact us.

Domino effect, dude. 


(https://i.gifer.com/8yoc.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 23, 2021, 08:34:40 AM

I think that one was in a Vodka Warehouse in Russia......"Comrade Nilolai we'd like a word with you"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 23, 2021, 08:37:10 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 23, 2021, 07:38:59 AM

The crane saga is continuing.  Pretty amazing (and expensive) operation.

We live nearly a mile east of this, 5-6 blocks, so it doesn't impact us.

If those are condos well you can damn near double the original sale prices.Unless insurance comes across with the goods - in a huge way

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 23, 2021, 08:40:31 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 21, 2021, 09:58:00 AM

Yeah, he's 400 feet up and the crane starts to tilt and make noises ...

Somewhere,someone is wishing that it was pigeon crap

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2021, 08:51:32 AM

The building to this side is apartments, pretty nice ones.  To the right is Northside Medical Center which we used for our PT and they have a 24/7.  Diagonally across is ICON apartment building which is rather large and has a Whole Foods on three floors at street level.

I don't know if ICON is emptied.  You can get an idea how many apts are in that building.

(https://i.imgur.com/fjyJF86.png)

The crane in this photo would be hidden by the building by next to that apartment building.

(https://i.imgur.com/Kyu0dR5.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 23, 2021, 08:58:52 AM

https://twitter.com/UnnecRoughness/status/1363848125920784384?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 23, 2021, 09:07:40 AM

Millennials would record their own mom getting hit by a car.  It wouldn't even occur to them to go and push her out of the way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2021, 09:09:19 AM

Oops.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 23, 2021, 09:24:30 AM

https://youtu.be/ZFhubbRugak?t=1

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 23, 2021, 09:40:48 AM

there is something enjoyable watching somebody pick on the wrong guy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 23, 2021, 10:05:41 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on February 20, 2021, 04:42:06 PM

(https://cdnassets.hw.net/e8/c4/7e71beaa4b1d899601e33cebe2ff/tmpbb29-2etmp-tcm20-730506.jpg)

Where is that?It looks familiar - lots of shitty designs/ideas out there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2021, 10:17:02 AM

Rank	USA Metropolitan Statistical Area	2010 Census	2019 estimate	% change
11	Phoenix-Mesa-Chandler, AZ MSA	4,192,887	4,948,203	+18.01%
10	Boston-Cambridge-Newton, MA-NH MSA	4,552,402	4,873,019	+7.04%
9	Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Alpharetta, GA MSA	5,286,728	6,020,364	+13.88%
8	Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL MSA	5,564,635	6,166,488	+10.82%
7	Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV MSA	5,649,540	6,280,487	+11.17%
6	Houston-The Woodlands-Sugar Land, TX MSA	5,920,416	7,066,141	+19.35%
5	Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD MSA	5,965,343	6,102,434	+2.30%
4	Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX MSA	6,366,542	7,573,136	+18.95%
3	Chicago-Naperville-Elgin, IL-IN-WI MSA	9,461,105	9,458,539	−0.03%
2	Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim, CA MSA	12,828,837	13,214,799	+3.01%
1	New York City-Newark-Jersey City, NY-NJ-PA MSA	18,897,109	19,216,182	+1.69

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2021, 10:20:27 AM

It is fact that those numbers would look a whole lot worse if you took out Indiana and Wisconsin. That's where the majority are/have been headed.

(https://i.imgur.com/uqCt728.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 23, 2021, 10:20:34 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 23, 2021, 10:05:41 AM

Where is that?It looks familiar - lots of shitty designs/ideas out there

Las Vegas brain institute. 

Because what could be more fun than screwing with people who are already losing their minds? 


(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/Brain_Institute_Las_Vegas%2C_Nevada%2C_USA.JPG)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2021, 10:34:56 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 23, 2021, 10:17:02 AM

Rank	USA Metropolitan Statistical Area	2010 Census	2019 estimate	% change
11	Phoenix-Mesa-Chandler, AZ MSA	4,192,887	4,948,203	+18.01%
10	Boston-Cambridge-Newton, MA-NH MSA	4,552,402	4,873,019	+7.04%
9	Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Alpharetta, GA MSA	5,286,728	6,020,364	+13.88%
8	Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL MSA	5,564,635	6,166,488	+10.82%
7	Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV MSA	5,649,540	6,280,487	+11.17%
6	Houston-The Woodlands-Sugar Land, TX MSA	5,920,416	7,066,141	+19.35%
5	Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD MSA	5,965,343	6,102,434	+2.30%
4	Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX MSA	6,366,542	7,573,136	+18.95%
3	Chicago-Naperville-Elgin, IL-IN-WI MSA	9,461,105	9,458,539	−0.03%
2	Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim, CA MSA	12,828,837	13,214,799	+3.01%
1	New York City-Newark-Jersey City, NY-NJ-PA MSA	18,897,109	19,216,182	+1.69

California says the rumors of its death have been greatly exaggerated. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2021, 10:39:49 AM

I'm fascinated by how fast the area around me is growing.  I don't know if the pace changes after COVID or not, it might.

 I've never lived in an area with so much construction.  Of course, the city of ATL is a minor part of the metro area.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2021, 10:40:50 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2021, 10:34:56 AM

California says the rumors of its death have been greatly exaggerated.

Really? I'm thinking that the population going out is not like the population coming in.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on February 23, 2021, 10:41:22 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on February 23, 2021, 08:58:52 AM

https://twitter.com/UnnecRoughness/status/1363848125920784384?s=20

Do not, repeat, DO NOT mess with wrestlers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 23, 2021, 10:42:20 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2021, 10:20:27 AM

It is fact that those numbers would look a whole lot worse if you took out Indiana and Wisconsin. That's where the majority are/have been headed.

(https://i.imgur.com/uqCt728.png)

There's sort of an irony in competing to see which places can become the most crowded. Like, I've never sat in Chicago traffic and thought "Damn, it would be great if there were more people here."

Granted, I've also lived in dying industrial towns, and those weren't super either. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2021, 10:52:55 AM

Chicago is not what it once was. Too many people fleeing the crime and taxes. Indiana and Wisconsin thank Illinois.

Editorial: Census: 7th year of Illinois population loss and the worst yet - Chicago Tribune (https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-illinois-population-census-exodus-20201222-ukwt63e6gvh3xnnvgzoidmx6su-story.html)

This is not good.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZAMBaCx.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2021, 11:15:41 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 23, 2021, 10:42:20 AM

There's sort of an irony in competing to see which places can become the most crowded. Like, I've never sat in Chicago traffic and thought "Damn, it would be great if there were more people here."

Granted, I've also lived in dying industrial towns, and those weren't super either.

Growth, in broad terms, is a good thing.  You have construction which means jobs and folks spending money.  Traffic goes the opposite way of course.

The fastest growing large cities have no geographic restrictions (among other things).  You can buy a nice starter castle here for $300 K, it'll just be 50 miles from the center of the city.(Used to, prices probably have escalated.)

A city on the decline tends to death spiral because folks leave who can afford to leave.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 23, 2021, 11:21:59 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 23, 2021, 11:15:41 AM

Growth, in broad terms, is a good thing.  You have construction which means jobs and folks spending money.  Traffic goes the opposite way of course.

The fastest growing large cities have no geographic restrictions (among other things).  You can buy a nice starter castle here for $300 K, it'll just be 50 miles from the center of the city.(Used to, prices probably have escalated.)

A city on the decline tends to death spiral because folks leave who can afford to leave.

Growth can be a great thing as it is here where I live in Florida. The economy here is absolutely booming including the job market and housing market. Unfortunately it also means incredible increases in traffic and people out places where you don’t necessarily want to see that such as when I try to take out my boat and go fishing or routine drives across town which used to take 10 minutes and I’ll take three times that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2021, 11:38:34 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2021, 10:40:50 AM

Really? I'm thinking that the population going out is not like the population coming in.

The population coming in is a mix of natural population growth (children being born) and international immigrants. Net domestic migration is negative.

I looked this up, and apparently about 25% of California's population is foreign born. Almost half of those are now naturalized citizens. Of the remainder, some are certainly low-skill illegal immigrants, but many are educated and here on work visas. 

California is very nice in many ways. It's just really expensive to live here. 

But I know, I'm wrong about the state where I've lived for most of the last 20 years, and it's just a shithole, right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 23, 2021, 11:43:10 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on February 23, 2021, 10:20:34 AM

Las Vegas brain institute.

Because what could be more fun than screwing with people who are already losing their minds?

Some where in the Cleveland area they built a mangled mess like this.All sorts of roof leaks/drainage/structural problems I recall hearing - happens when they get too cute.Want to hang art pictures like that on your wall fine,don't litter the landscape with it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2021, 11:57:49 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2021, 11:38:34 AM

The population coming in is a mix of natural population growth (children being born) and international immigrants. Net domestic migration is negative.

I looked this up, and apparently about 25% of California's population is foreign born. Almost half of those are now naturalized citizens. Of the remainder, some are certainly low-skill illegal immigrants, but many are educated and here on work visas.

California is very nice in many ways. It's just really expensive to live here.

But I know, I'm wrong about the state where I've lived for most of the last 20 years, and it's just a shithole, right?

I didn't say it was. Some of it is. If you take the back roads from LAX to my SIL's place in Belair, or to downtown LA, well, there ya have it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2021, 11:58:24 AM

Two threads on California. Has to be a record.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2021, 12:38:31 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2021, 11:57:49 AM

I didn't say it was. Some of it is. If you take the back roads from LAX to my SIL's place in Belair, or to downtown LA, well, there ya have it.

Nah, @Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) called it a shithole, among other things. Granted, I think the list of "non-shithole" places for him is quite small lol :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on February 23, 2021, 01:34:40 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2021, 11:58:24 AM

Two threads on California. Has to be a record.

https://youtu.be/Asiyu-wnYOo

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2021, 01:36:36 PM

Nice.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on February 23, 2021, 02:48:30 PM

Tiger Woods....man not good.   Involved in a bad one car rollover wreck. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 23, 2021, 02:49:53 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on February 23, 2021, 02:48:30 PM

Tiger Woods....man not good.  Involved in a bad one car rollover wreck.

I read about this but cant find out his condition

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2021, 03:28:30 PM

Tiger Woods involved in Los Angeles car crash, first-responders needed 'jaws of life' to remove him | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/sports/tiger-woods-los-angeles-car-crash)

Does not sound good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 23, 2021, 04:18:51 PM

Oh no.  The horror.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 23, 2021, 04:22:59 PM

Such a sad ending.  I have no thoughts one way or the other, but I would have enjoyed his chase of Jack from an entertainment perspective.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 23, 2021, 04:39:41 PM

Quote from: ELA on February 23, 2021, 04:22:59 PM

Such a sad ending.  I have no thoughts one way or the other, but I would have enjoyed his chase of Jack from an entertainment perspective.

have you heard something

all Ive seen is that he has leg injuries and is in surgery 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 23, 2021, 04:52:48 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2021, 12:38:31 PM

Nah, @Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) called it a shithole, among other things. Granted, I think the list of "non-shithole" places for him is quite small lol :57:

I mean they are literally crapping in the street.

The west side of Columbus was full of homeless junkies, but they at least had the decency not to crap all over the sidewalk. Not sure what they did instead, but at least it wasn't that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 23, 2021, 04:55:18 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2021, 03:28:30 PM

Tiger Woods involved in Los Angeles car crash, first-responders needed 'jaws of life' to remove him | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/sports/tiger-woods-los-angeles-car-crash)

Does not sound good.

So he was flying down the road, and rolled his vehicle? Single car accident? At 7:AM?

Did Perkins start serving alcohol? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on February 23, 2021, 05:03:54 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on February 23, 2021, 04:55:18 PM

So he was flying down the road, and rolled his vehicle? Single car accident? At 7:AM?

Did Perkins start serving alcohol?

After watching his interview the other day, he was probably pumped full of Xanax.

How does he not have a car and driver at this point?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 23, 2021, 05:08:18 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on February 23, 2021, 04:55:18 PM

So he was flying down the road, and rolled his vehicle? Single car accident? At 7:AM?

Did Perkins start serving alcohol?

That's what the 12-pack on the passenger seat is for. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2021, 05:08:49 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on February 23, 2021, 04:52:48 PM

I mean they are literally crapping in the street.

The west side of Columbus was full of homeless junkies, but they at least had the decency not to crap all over the sidewalk. Not sure what they did instead, but at least it wasn't that.

You're aware not everywhere in California is San Francisco, right?

San Francisco is a wonderful city in a lot of ways that has a lot of redeeming qualities... But it's dirty af. No argument there.

It's a nice place to visit. I wouldn't want to live there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 23, 2021, 05:15:06 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2021, 03:28:30 PM

Tiger Woods involved in Los Angeles car crash, first-responders needed 'jaws of life' to remove him | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/sports/tiger-woods-los-angeles-car-crash)

Does not sound good.

Officials later clarified that the "jaws of life" were not used to extricate Woods.

Los Angeles Sheriff's Department Lt. Michael White told CBS Los Angeles (https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2021/02/23/tiger-woods-car-crash-hospital-surgery/) that the golfer suffered "non-life-threatening injuries."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2021, 05:34:09 PM

Notice how often the initial media reports are seriously flawed?

They seem to push unverified salacious information often, I guess it gets eyeballs.  And then what someone heard persists as a belief.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 23, 2021, 06:50:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 23, 2021, 05:34:09 PM

Notice how often the initial media reports are seriously flawed?

They seem to push unverified salacious information often, I guess it gets eyeballs.  And then what someone heard persists as a belief.

I mean, the jaws of life thing came from the cops. Like the cops said they used it. 

So the approach should be to not trust cops with the first thing they say.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 23, 2021, 06:54:32 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 23, 2021, 05:15:06 PM

Officials later clarified that the "jaws of life" were not used to extricate Woods.

Los Angeles Sheriff's Department Lt. Michael White told CBS Los Angeles (https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2021/02/23/tiger-woods-car-crash-hospital-surgery/) that the golfer suffered "non-life-threatening injuries."

yep looking at the wreck you dont see anywhere the j of l would have been used

there were no sprung doors etc

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 23, 2021, 06:57:24 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on February 23, 2021, 04:55:18 PM

So he was flying down the road, and rolled his vehicle? Single car accident? At 7:AM?

Did Perkins start serving alcohol?

hey he had places to go and things to do

as a Texan I can identify with that

there was a time in my life where that could have been me

the cops would of had to dig me out from under a pile of beer cans

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 23, 2021, 07:17:34 PM

Tiger could afford a ride

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 23, 2021, 07:30:03 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 23, 2021, 07:17:34 PM

Tiger could afford a ride

on one hand I could understand him trying to penny pinch after he had to give his ex a quarter of a billion dollars. Bill Burr has a great bit about her- she's a f##kn baby-sitter with a quarter of a billion dollars. Lol. She was like Ernie Els' sons nanny or some shit like that when Tiger met her. 

I like hot young exotic ass as much as the next guy- but I could never get over having to give up a quarter of a billion dollars to an ex-wife- and I really don't care how much money I had. That's insane.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 23, 2021, 07:39:22 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2021, 12:38:31 PM

Nah, @Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) called it a shithole, among other things. Granted, I think the list of "non-shithole" places for him is quite small lol :57:

Facts.

Palm Beach island is pretty fk'n nice. Wellington is pretty nice. So is Delray Beach. Boca Raton. Las Olas/Ft Lauderdale. Lighthouse Point. Brickell/Wynwood/Midtown/Miami Design District/Miami Beach/North Miami Beach/Bal Harbour/Aventura/Sunny Isles/ - all pretty fk'n nice.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on February 23, 2021, 08:20:57 PM

Daft Punk calling it quits makes me feel a bit old.  I'm not necessarily an EDM guy but they were really good.   Loved LCD Soundsystem's ode to them.  Daft Punk is playing at my house!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 23, 2021, 11:05:57 PM

They were never really my thing but I liked that Get Lucky song.  I mean, who DOESN'T want to Get Lucky?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 24, 2021, 01:05:03 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 23, 2021, 07:30:03 PM

on one hand I could understand him trying to penny pinch after he had to give his ex a quarter of a billion dollars. Bill Burr has a great bit about her- she's a f##kn baby-sitter with a quarter of a billion dollars. Lol. She was like Ernie Els' sons nanny or some shit like that when Tiger met her.

I like hot young exotic ass as much as the next guy- but I could never get over having to give up a quarter of a billion dollars to an ex-wife- and I really don't care how much money I had. That's insane.

No wealthy person should ever get married.  But they do.  Over and over and over again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2021, 07:12:56 AM

If you have an iron clad prenup, it could be OK.

The step daughter is here from France with her five year old son, who is, well, undisciplined, being the youngest of four.  I'm hiding.

She wanted a COVID test, she had two before she left France.  It would cost her about $300 here.  So, yesterday she went to the DMV and got a GA DL, she kept talking about great and nice and efficient they were.  She had on OH DL but it had expired.  Now the test is free.

I wasn't too clear and didn't ask how she could get a GA DL, maybe they registered her to vote, I didn't ask.

I told her the numbers in the US were dropping rapidly, I think she didn't believe me.  She's very nervous about it.  Her family has been cooped up in a tiny village for months only going out for groceries, nothing else.  

Crews press on to remove teetering crane outside Midtown high-rise (ajc.com) (https://www.ajc.com/news/crews-press-on-to-remove-teetering-crane-outside-midtown-high-rise/JTRTJ4CRMFEE7PRBYLOX7JXRPM/)

(https://i.imgur.com/30ZKHv3.png)

That is a pretty amazing "mobile crane" they brought in and assembled in three days.  It looks like height overkill to me.  The Whole Foods store is under that colorful wall painting thing.  It's a pretty neat, expensive store, with a rooftop deck where you can eat your food and have a beer.

I'll walk down there today, this photo is looking south from 14th Street on West Peachtree.  We have a lot of Peachtree streets.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2021, 07:17:13 AM

24 Science Myths Almost Everyone Believes (sciencesensei.com) (https://sciencesensei.com/24-science-myths-almost-everyone-believes/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SCS&utm_campaign=23846987634670781&utm_content=23846987634940781_23846987634820781&fbclid=IwAR11t9Es08Py6C_vx6jeq0pmIfW0Z8Oy4csjMEBGmqe9FUJRtBR6OtK2aL4)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2021, 07:44:03 AM

Real Median Household Income in the United States (MEHOINUSA672N) | FRED | St. Louis Fed (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N/)

In a world of bad news, some apparent good news ...

Coronavirus in Georgia: COVID-19 Cases, testing and deaths dashboard and updates (ajc.com) (https://www.ajc.com/news/coronavirus-georgia-covid-dashboard/jvoLBozRtBSVSNQDDAuZxH/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 24, 2021, 08:21:16 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 24, 2021, 07:17:13 AM

24 Science Myths Almost Everyone Believes (sciencesensei.com) (https://sciencesensei.com/24-science-myths-almost-everyone-believes/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SCS&utm_campaign=23846987634670781&utm_content=23846987634940781_23846987634820781&fbclid=IwAR11t9Es08Py6C_vx6jeq0pmIfW0Z8Oy4csjMEBGmqe9FUJRtBR6OtK2aL4)

interesting but loaded with pop ups

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 24, 2021, 08:38:46 AM

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eu1iLMhXIAIwS9L?format=jpg&name=large)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2021, 10:01:51 AM

2021 Audi E-Tron Sportback Is Your Everyday Electric Vehicle (automobilemag.com) (https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2021-audi-e-tron-sportback-first-test-drive/?sm_id=organic_fb_AMAG_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR0LDYjXjTygryPY9HoFHgozNf_VyLLvDUVUgUZSncHiGhF8JapByHFuOQc)

I woke up this morning trying to concoct a "two battery system" that made sense.  A battery charges faster when discharged, so if you have dial batteries, isolated, and went to recharge, the one most discharged would gain range faster than the other which was nearly full.  The problem with this stunt is that a unibattery would basically do the same thing.

If you get 20 miles in 5 minutes of fast charging, that would be "OK" if you were a bit short of getting to your destination, but nobody wants to drive 20 miles and then stop on a long distance trip of course.  The 22 minute interval is more acceptable I think, folks stare at their phone longer than that, and it's enough time to snare a burger.

This Audi doesn't have great total range, one deficiency in that model.

I stopped by one of Electrify America's 150 kW chargers, and got from 38 percent (85 miles of range) to 76 percent (163 miles) in 22 minutes. I picked up my first 20 miles of added range in the first 5 minutes of charging,

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2021, 10:36:11 AM

Tesla > every EV 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2021, 10:40:01 AM

We talk about this already or no? 

But NY Gov. Andrew Cuomo on the hottest of hot seats for his butt fkn bumbling mishandling of coronavirus in NY - and powerful Dems in NY turning against him. 

Can’t help but LOL after the media blew him 24/7 for 6 months straight, won a freaking Emmy award, wrote a best selling book, and his little brother Fredo Cuomo actually felatioed him live on CNN on a nightly basis. 

You honestly can’t make this crap up. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 24, 2021, 10:43:39 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 24, 2021, 10:40:01 AM

We talk about this already or no?

But NY Gov. Andrew Cuomo on the hottest of hot seats for his butt fkn bumbling mishandling of coronavirus in NY - and powerful Dems in NY turning against him.

Can’t help but LOL after the media blew him 24/7 for 6 months straight, won a freaking Emmy award, wrote a best selling book, and his little brother Fredo Cuomo actually felatioed him live on CNN on a nightly basis.

You honestly can’t make this crap up.

Assimilation to the Borg does not necessarily protect one from the Borg. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 24, 2021, 10:58:55 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 24, 2021, 10:01:51 AM

I woke up this morning trying to concoct a "two battery system" that made sense.  A battery charges faster when discharged, so if you have dial batteries, isolated, and went to recharge, the one most discharged would gain range faster than the other which was nearly full.  The problem with this stunt is that a unibattery would basically do the same thing.

Yep.

Actually, again the important distinction to make is that the "dual" battery might be two battery packs of X individual cells each, whereas the "unibattery" is a single battery pack of 2*X cells. But the key is that isolation of the packs actually doesn't matter, and they're already isolated in smaller units than that at the module level.

Let's look at this description of the original Audi E-Tron battery (https://www.audi-mediacenter.com/en/the-audi-e-tron-in-abu-dhabi-11089/battery-and-charging-technology-11094):

Quote

95 kWh of energy: the high-voltage battery system

The powerful lithium-ion battery in the Audi e-tron provides for a range of more than 400 kilometers (248.5 mi) in the WLTP driving cycle. The battery operates with a nominal voltage of 396 volts and stores 95 kWh of energy. The battery system in the Audi e-tron is located beneath the cabin and is 2.28 meters (7.5 ft) long, 1.63 meters (5.3 ft) wide and 34 centimeters (13.4 in) high. It comprises a total of 36 cell modules in square aluminum housings, each of which is roughly the size of a shoe box. They are arranged on two levels, known as “floors” – a longer lower floor and a shorter upper one. The cell modules in the Audi e-tron can reproducibly discharge and charge electricity over a broad temperature and charge status window. They can be densely packed to achieve a very high output and energy density in the volume available. At market launch, each module is equipped with twelve pouch cells having a flexible outer skin of aluminum-coated polymer. In the future, Audi will use both technically equivalent prismatic cells in its modular concept, also in terms of a multiple supplier strategy.

An indirect cooling system distinct from the cell space ensures the high-performance operation of the battery over the long term. It is made of flat, extruded aluminum sections uniformly divided into tiny chambers. Heat is exchanged between the cells and the cooling system beneath them via a thermally conductive gel pressed beneath each cell module. In what is a particularly efficient solution, the gel evenly transfers the waste heat to the coolant via the battery housing.

The battery and all key parameters, such as charge status, power output and thermal management, are managed by the external battery management controller (BMC). This is located in the occupant cell on the right A-pillar of the Audi e-tron. The BMC communicates with both the controllers of the electric motors and the cell module controllers (CMC), each of which monitors the currents, voltage and temperature of the modules. The battery junction box (BJB), into which the high-voltage relays and fuses are integrated, is the electrical interface to the vehicle. Enclosed in a die-cast aluminum housing, it is located in the front section of the battery system. Data exchange between the BMC, the CMCs and the BJB is via a separate bus system.

The "isolation" you speak of would be at the module level, I believe. So the Audi e-Tron is already 36 "isolated" battery modules, each with its own cell module controller [CMC]. 

This is speculation, but I'm guessing that since each individual CMC can monitor current, voltage, and temperature at the module level, the BMC can also individually control the amount of current being delivered to each module. Trying to deliver a uniform current to all modules in parallel would be unsafe, so I can't imagine that the BMC is not capable of this. 

So if battery module 7 is only at 20% charge, while battery module 19 is at 67% charge, the BMC will pump more current into module 7 because it can handle it, and thus module 7 will be charging at a faster rate than module 19. 

So... Long story short... Your idea of breaking the battery pack into smaller isolated batteries already exists and is in common usage!

It's not actually done for charging rate reasons IMHO; it's basically because you want a certain voltage out of each module which is determined by the number of cells per module. It's also done for ease of design/manufacture... That way the battery module configuration, charging electronics, BMC, motors, etc of a Tesla Model 3 Standard Range and a Tesla Model 3 Long Range are of identical design; the Long Range simply has more modules/BMC in parallel. But the net result is to break down a large battery pack into multiple isolated modules, which is what you were after.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 24, 2021, 11:05:07 AM

Newsom is currently facing a recall petition. Needs to get 1.5M signatures within the next month or so IIRC to force a special election.

Last time we recalled a governor we ended up with Ahhnold. Betcha this time if we recall him, we elect Kim Kardashian. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 24, 2021, 11:08:35 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 24, 2021, 11:05:07 AM

Newsom is currently facing a recall petition. Needs to get 1.5M signatures within the next month or so IIRC to force a special election.

Last time we recalled a governor we ended up with Ahhnold. Betcha this time if we recall him, we elect Kim Kardashian.

karma

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2021, 11:18:38 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 24, 2021, 11:05:07 AM

Newsom is currently facing a recall petition. Needs to get 1.5M signatures within the next month or so IIRC to force a special election.

Last time we recalled a governor we ended up with Ahhnold. Betcha this time if we recall him, we elect Kim Kardashian.

Newsom seems like the slimiest of slimeballs. Closes everything down for the regular folk in his entire state- but somehow it's completely A-OK for him to enjoy an indoor dining experience with 12 of his homies at a 3 star Michelin restaurant that costs about $400 a plate. Fkn dooosh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2021, 11:20:29 AM

He's getting recalled and almost certainly will be reelected.  I don't see the point really.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 24, 2021, 11:36:26 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 24, 2021, 11:20:29 AM

He's getting recalled and almost certainly will be reelected.  I don't see the point really.

I'm not so sure the recall election will fail...

While this is a deeply blue state, there are a lot of pissed off people after the way the virus was handled. And he came off BADLY in that whole affair. Not only because it seemed like everything he did was decrees passed down from on high, but then when the French Laundry incident happened it hurt him badly.

You know that Republicans in California will vote lock-step to recall him. The question is whether there are enough Democrats who are so pissed off after lockdowns, after school closings, after his smarmy ass got caught violating his own lockdown, to peel off and vote to recall. 

I don't think it's clear that he'll survive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 24, 2021, 11:38:47 AM

He's going to be recalled because many people are not stupid. 

They see the lockdowns and the devastation of the economy for many, and then they look at Florida (among others) and see that keeping the economy open, while letting the people choose their behavior, produced just about the same results, without devastating the economy for most. 

And Florida has a much older population.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 24, 2021, 12:02:57 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 24, 2021, 11:18:38 AM

Newsom seems like the slimiest of slimeballs. Closes everything down for the regular folk in his entire state- but somehow it's completely A-OK for him to enjoy an indoor dining experience with 12 of his homies at a 3 star Michelin restaurant that costs about $400 a plate. Fkn dooosh.

When your state is the Borg and you control the mothership, you can pretty much do whatever you want without consequence.

Anyone that objects is simply dismissed as an Alt-Right Nazi Klansman from the trailer park who hates clean air, and doesn't believe in climate change. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 24, 2021, 12:12:28 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on February 24, 2021, 12:02:57 PM

When your state is the Borg and you control the mothership, you can pretty much do whatever you want without consequence.

Anyone that objects is simply dismissed as an Alt-Right Nazi Klansman from the trailer park who hates clean air, and doesn't believe in climate change.

Eh. The Borg can turn on their own... That's why I'm not sure that Newsom will survive this. 

We may end up in a situation where the Borg simultaneously hates the Right and Newsom. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2021, 12:24:46 PM

California’s Gavin Newsom Will Likely Face A Recall Election — But He’ll Probably Survive It | FiveThirtyEight (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/californias-gavin-newsom-will-likely-face-a-recall-election-but-hell-probably-survive-it/)

Odds are 1 in 5 he doesn't survive this, apparently, at this point, limited polling.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 24, 2021, 12:38:06 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 24, 2021, 12:12:28 PM

Eh. The Borg can turn on their own... That's why I'm not sure that Newsom will survive this.

We may end up in a situation where the Borg simultaneously hates the Right and Newsom.

Yes indeed they can. But it is generally someone that breaks rank and attempts to reach across the isle. 

So long as they are steadfast in their devotion to the cause, then they have carte blanche to pretty much do whatever. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 24, 2021, 12:56:10 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 24, 2021, 11:38:47 AM

He's going to be recalled because many people are not stupid.

They see the lockdowns and the devastation of the economy for many, and then they look at Florida (among others) and see that keeping the economy open, while letting the people choose their behavior, produced just about the same results, without devastating the economy for most.

And Florida has a much older population.

WE WANT THE FREEDOM TO ALLOW MORE PEOPLE TO DIE!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 24, 2021, 12:59:49 PM

His situation is the exact reason I never want to be in a leadership position with adults.  You try to do the right thing, you get spit on.  You go with the popular thing, things inevitably go awry, you get spit on.  
.
Anytime a person in power tries to be responsible when the masses don't want to be, they get ass-canned.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2021, 01:02:11 PM

If you compare California's COVID results with say Florida's, the comparison isn't really good for CA.

But, it takes very few signatures relatively to get a recall, and many more votes to have it work.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 24, 2021, 01:03:34 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 24, 2021, 12:56:10 PM

WE WANT THE FREEDOM TO ALLOW MORE PEOPLE TO DIE!

We want the freedom to function and feed our families safely, as opposed to going out of business, watching our kids rot, and gaining NOTHING

1000 new residents per day, so they obviously see through the disinformation from the MSM.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 24, 2021, 01:05:43 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 24, 2021, 12:56:10 PM

WE WANT THE FREEDOM TO ALLOW MORE PEOPLE TO DIE!

Compare and contrast.


(https://i.imgur.com/qp8WCO6.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2021, 01:13:12 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/j80pmSd.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 24, 2021, 01:58:05 PM

Wonder why Iron Workers had/have a high rate of alcoholism

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 24, 2021, 02:03:44 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 24, 2021, 11:36:26 AM

The question is whether there are enough Democrats who are so pissed off after lockdowns, after school closings, after his smarmy ass got caught violating his own lockdown, to peel off and vote to recall.

I don't think it's clear that he'll survive.

There should be a federal mandate that sends the Rot like him to the pokey.Could have solidified local power so they can't be touched.And send Eva Braun Aunt Nancy to the same cell block as Martha Stewart enjoyed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2021, 02:07:38 PM

Landau Genius Scale ranking of the smartest physicists ever - Big Think (https://bigthink.com/surprising-science/landau-genius-scale-ranking-of-the-smartest-physicists-ever?rebelltitem=9#rebelltitem9)

Interesting, Einstein and Bohr thought of Dirac as being very smart.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 24, 2021, 02:34:09 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 24, 2021, 12:59:49 PM

His situation is the exact reason I never want to be in a leadership position with adults.  You try to do the right thing, you get spit on.  You go with the popular thing, things inevitably go awry, you get spit on. 
.
Anytime a person in power tries to be responsible when the masses don't want to be, they get ass-canned.

Eh. I realize you guys aren't as tied in to how it went down here in CA, but it's not that he got in trouble for "trying to do the right thing".

Dude was flailing. I honestly think he got the initial lockdown right... And then got everything else wrong. 

It'd be one thing if I could say, as someone who has followed this stuff closely, that he was following the science in what he was doing. But he wasn't. It was like every time the numbers changed, he locked down without really evaluating WHERE the risks were. Shutting down outdoor dining, haircuts (everyone masked), nail salons (everyone masked), when there was no evidence that those were primary avenues of spread. Kowtowing to the teachers unions who didn't want to return to schools when all the science said that schools weren't the primary avenues of spread. 

Then he lost the PR battle. Whole counties--including many high population counties--basically said they just refused to enforce anything Newsom said. He ended up getting into a kerfluffle over Thanksgiving gatherings--which is something that he needed to say--but did so in such a tone-deaf way that he came off looking like an ass. And then the French Laundry thing happened which made him look like a GIANT hypocrite, and like there was a different set of rules for the elites than us lowly serfs.

The issue is that when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. His only tool was a lockdown, so everything looked like a lockdown opportunity. But people got sick of it, got sick of him, and then just simply tuned him out. 

If he had been a lot more forthcoming and treated Californians like adults, focusing on the key avenues of spread and trying to convince us that we need to mediate our behavior to avoid it, I think it would have gone better. Instead he treated us like children and any time the cases rose, told us we were grounded--while he went off and played. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 24, 2021, 02:39:32 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 24, 2021, 02:34:09 PM

Eh. I realize you guys aren't as tied in to how it went down here in CA, but it's not that he got in trouble for "trying to do the right thing".

Dude was flailing. I honestly think he got the initial lockdown right... And then got everything else wrong.

It'd be one thing if I could say, as someone who has followed this stuff closely, that he was following the science in what he was doing. But he wasn't. It was like every time the numbers changed, he locked down without really evaluating WHERE the risks were. Shutting down outdoor dining, haircuts (everyone masked), nail salons (everyone masked), when there was no evidence that those were primary avenues of spread. Kowtowing to the teachers unions who didn't want to return to schools when all the science said that schools weren't the primary avenues of spread.

Then he lost the PR battle. Whole counties--including many high population counties--basically said they just refused to enforce anything Newsom said. He ended up getting into a kerfluffle over Thanksgiving gatherings--which is something that he needed to say--but did so in such a tone-deaf way that he came off looking like an ass. And then the French Laundry thing happened which made him look like a GIANT hypocrite, and like there was a different set of rules for the elites than us lowly serfs.

The issue is that when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. His only tool was a lockdown, so everything looked like a lockdown opportunity. But people got sick of it, got sick of him, and then just simply tuned him out.

If he had been a lot more forthcoming and treated Californians like adults, focusing on the key avenues of spread and trying to convince us that we need to mediate our behavior to avoid it, I think it would have gone better. Instead he treated us like children and any time the cases rose, told us we were grounded--while he went off and played.

Great post.

And yes, he (and almost everyone else) got the initial lockdown right. Then, he just lost it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2021, 02:39:50 PM

My step son said restaurants in SF spent money to outfit for outdoor dining, and then that was forbidden.  Then the homeless took up residence and littered the place and the restaurants were fined for that.  This sort of inconsistency and failure to adapt is fairly glaring, and the results of these lockdowns is not impressive either.

Them there is the issue of getting his clothes cleaned at some French place, who would do that?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 24, 2021, 02:50:34 PM

Ah, well he acted stupidish, then.  
Maybe we Americans aren't great at picking leaders.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 24, 2021, 02:50:50 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 24, 2021, 02:03:44 PM

There should be a federal mandate that sends the Rot like him to the pokey.Could have solidified local power so they can't be touched.And send Eva Braun Aunt Nancy to the same cell block as Martha Stewart enjoyed

Way to keep it objective.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 24, 2021, 03:36:39 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 24, 2021, 02:50:34 PM

Ah, well he acted stupidish, then. 
Maybe we Americans aren't great at picking leaders.

We? We who?

Any comment on my post above, citing actual data?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 24, 2021, 03:47:07 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 24, 2021, 02:50:34 PM

Ah, well he acted stupidish, then. 
Maybe we Americans aren't great at picking leaders.

Democracy is definitely the worst form of government...

...except for all the others.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2021, 04:01:19 PM

I have little good to say about any politician.  Mike Dewine did attend my son's internment as Senator at the time along with Steve Chabot.  I appreciated that, Dewine later made a speech on the empty Senate floor and sent me the video.  And he wrote a letter of recommendation for my kid's application to law school.  We exchanged a couple personal  letters.  So, he seems like a nice human being.  For a politician.

People who appear to believe that all/most politicians of this party are great and all/most of that party are evil are in my view highly mislead and ridiculous, but a fair number of folks feel that way.  And yes, the problem is how else to choose "leaders".

I'm generally for a qualified franchise, folks should be able to pass a simple written test on government in  my view to be allowed to vote.  We ask that of people becoming naturalized citizens.

Maybe with that the discourse could improve a little bit.  But that's not going to happen of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 24, 2021, 04:13:25 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 24, 2021, 03:47:07 PM

Democracy is definitely the worst form of government...

...except for all the others.

👍👍

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 24, 2021, 04:28:43 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 24, 2021, 02:50:50 PM

Way to keep it objective.

Go bash someone helping the homeless

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 24, 2021, 04:37:51 PM

Oh, you can do it, but others can't.  Got it.  Again, way to keep it objective.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 24, 2021, 05:00:26 PM

Shut up you juvenile FvCK,just had to crawl out from under your rock and make unsoliceted remarks.Go see your medicine man for more peyote

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 24, 2021, 05:02:07 PM

LOL, calm down.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 24, 2021, 05:05:09 PM

Thanx for not procreating - you are a humanitarian at heart

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 24, 2021, 06:52:43 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 24, 2021, 11:05:07 AM

Newsom is currently facing a recall petition. Needs to get 1.5M signatures within the next month or so IIRC to force a special election.

Last time we recalled a governor we ended up with Ahhnold. Betcha this time if we recall him, we elect Kim Kardashian.

I wonder if the mechanics are the same. I recall that if the incumbent was the right blend of unpopular and uninteresting, it lined up super well for a challenger. 

That was a weird summer. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 24, 2021, 06:59:47 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on February 24, 2021, 12:02:57 PM

When your state is the Borg and you control the mothership, you can pretty much do whatever you want without consequence.

Anyone that objects is simply dismissed as an Alt-Right Nazi Klansman from the trailer park who hates clean air, and doesn't believe in climate change.

Single-party dominant states do tend to create weird outcomes. I live in one controlled by one party, and holy hell are those folks corrupt. 

The worst part is if it gets really unbalanced, you end up with more and more fringy folks in the minority party because your more viable and popular candidates look for races they can win. Some of those folks in my home state are low-key loony toons (are are many of their majority opponents).

It points to the kind of oddity of our state border situations. Like, Ca. had more voters for that minority party's presidential candidate than 30 or so states have people overall (and the flip side is Texas had as many voters in their minority party as 28 states have people). But arbitrary boarders draw things up in such odd ways. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2021, 07:20:49 PM

We have a female US Rep a bit north of me who thinks the schools shootings may be false flags.

I hate arbitrary boarders, unless they pay the rent on time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 24, 2021, 08:47:36 PM

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/United_States_evolution.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 25, 2021, 08:56:22 AM

Ever catch that "How the states got their shape" show, probably on History channel?  It's interesting sometimes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on February 25, 2021, 09:04:52 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 25, 2021, 08:56:22 AM

Ever catch that "How the states got their shape" show, probably on History channel?  It's interesting sometimes.

As someone who has dabbled in surveying, the book is even more interesting. Most of the borders aren't too exciting, but there are some real doozies.

Currently, the boundary between the Carolinas is being updated thanks to high accuracy modern instrumentation, and it's causing chaos in a lot of places.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article79676647.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 25, 2021, 09:19:19 AM

I haven't seen the show, but I do have the book. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2021, 09:31:10 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on February 25, 2021, 09:04:52 AM

As someone who has dabbled in surveying, the book is even more interesting. Most of the borders aren't too exciting, but there are some real doozies.

Currently, the boundary between the Carolinas is being updated thanks to high accuracy modern instrumentation, and it's causing chaos in a lot of places.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article79676647.html

That should never happen. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 25, 2021, 11:15:57 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2021, 09:31:10 AM

That should never happen.

I kinda like it when dumb stuff like that happens.  Keeps life interesting. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2021, 11:21:52 AM

As a Professional Land Surveyor, it drives me nuts when people assume that newer technology is better than following in the footsteps and intentions of the original Land Surveyor. It's an art and a science, all in one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 25, 2021, 11:36:34 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2021, 11:21:52 AM

As a Professional Land Surveyor, it drives me nuts when people assume that newer technology is better than following in the footsteps and intentions of the original Land Surveyor. It's an art and a science, all in one.

Did you know that George Washington was a land surveyor prior to him going on to other things

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2021, 11:44:45 AM

Yes, of course. Not licensed, but back then a license wasn't a thing (for most anything).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 25, 2021, 11:44:58 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 25, 2021, 11:36:34 AM

Did you know that George Washington was a land surveyor prior to him going on to other things

Who? 

I'm familiar with his land surveying history, but I hadn't heard of anything in his post-surveying career...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 25, 2021, 12:22:38 PM

How'd he find the time, while owning all of those slaves?   :88:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2021, 12:31:49 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 25, 2021, 12:22:38 PM

How'd he find the time, while owning all of those slaves? 

Probably had advice from the African guy who he bought them from?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 25, 2021, 12:33:54 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2021, 12:31:49 PM

Probably had advice from the African guy who he bought them from?

😂😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 25, 2021, 12:51:00 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 25, 2021, 12:22:38 PM

How'd he find the time, while owning all of those slaves?  :88:

Really? That's your concern? Or are you just trying to stir the pot?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 25, 2021, 12:53:27 PM

Well this isn’t going anywhere good. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 25, 2021, 12:54:51 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 25, 2021, 11:44:58 AM

Who?

I'm familiar with his land surveying history, but I hadn't heard of anything in his post-surveying career...

Yeah, I had heard that he had a couple of other gigs. But he was one hell of a surveyor. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 25, 2021, 12:55:08 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 25, 2021, 12:22:38 PM

How'd he find the time, while owning all of those slaves?  :88:

And you're proof the white man is still taking advantage of the Red Man :040:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 25, 2021, 01:31:17 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 25, 2021, 12:55:08 PM

And you're proof the white man is still taking advantage of the Red Man :040:

History tells us that upon his death GW made provisions to free all his slaves which was completed by 1801

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 25, 2021, 03:15:54 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 25, 2021, 12:51:00 PM

Really? That's your concern? Or are you just trying to stir the pot?

Pretty sure it is the latter, since the question itself is fairly nonsensical.

A slave owner would obviously have a lot more time on their hands than someone who had to do all of those chores themselves. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 25, 2021, 03:53:34 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2021, 12:31:49 PM

Probably had advice from the African guy who he bought them from?

He bought his teeth from African guys, not his slaves.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on February 25, 2021, 04:02:08 PM

Ha.  A recent GW bio caught my eye, one of the items I noticed was about those teeth he wore.  George hated to show his teeth and it did impact his speech.   I may pick it up. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 25, 2021, 04:11:29 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on February 25, 2021, 03:53:34 PM

He bought his teeth from African guys, not his slaves.

George Washington WAS an African-American guy.  Here's a pic:



(https://i.imgur.com/zytG4Dv.png)


GW is the one in the middle...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 25, 2021, 04:18:56 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 25, 2021, 12:51:00 PM

Really? That's your concern? Or are you just trying to stir the pot?

It's called a joke.  The pot and what's in it doesn't need any help from me to get stirred up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 25, 2021, 04:19:47 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 25, 2021, 01:31:17 PM

History tells us that upon his death GW made provisions to free all his slaves which was completed by 1801

That's just selfish, isn't it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 25, 2021, 04:22:00 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 25, 2021, 12:55:08 PM

And you're proof the white man is still taking advantage of the Red Man :040:

a - I moved off the Rez almost 4 years ago
b - teaching their children for free is taking advantage?
.
*before you respond, consider I MIGHT know a little about it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 25, 2021, 04:23:21 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 25, 2021, 04:18:56 PM

It's called a joke.  The pot and what's in it doesn't need any help from me to get stirred up.

Basically, a person could take a quote from a Wilford Brimley and have it come out of an AOC and get all of the monkeys throwing their poo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 25, 2021, 04:38:17 PM

Also, dude, "Monkeys" is not the preferred nomenclature. 

(https://dazedimg-dazedgroup.netdna-ssl.com/421/0-0-421-281/azure/dazed-prod/1100/7/1107520.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 25, 2021, 06:09:07 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 25, 2021, 04:23:21 PM

Basically, a person could take a quote from a Wilford Brimley and have it come out of an AOC and get all of the monkeys throwing their poo.

 It sure AOC has ever said a word that makes sense.  Just being honest.  She is nuts. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 25, 2021, 06:24:34 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 25, 2021, 06:09:07 PM

It sure AOC has ever said a word that makes sense.  Just being honest.  She is nuts.

she was probably a great bartender but like a lot of others she has risen to her level of incompetence 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 25, 2021, 07:31:53 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 25, 2021, 06:09:07 PM

It sure AOC has ever said a word that makes sense.  Just being honest.  She is nuts.

I believe that her ideas don't make sense to you.  

How a recently rookie representative from NYC can draw so much ire from the right is fascinating.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on February 25, 2021, 08:03:24 PM

Are you new to this OAM?  When has Congress not been about isolating some obscure Rep. And elevating them to some barometer for the party?  This is what you get with a zillion districts cut by a limber jigsaw.   Congress has an endless supply of bogeymen and women. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 25, 2021, 09:58:41 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 25, 2021, 07:31:53 PM

I believe that her ideas don't make sense to you. 

How a recently rookie representative from NYC can draw so much ire from the right is fascinating.

No ire. Just can’t take her seriously and it appears I am not alone in that. Even her own party often distances from her.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on February 25, 2021, 11:02:57 PM

Remember Hawaii QB and Heisman finalist Colt Brennan? Well, he isn't doing too well:

https://twitter.com/westhawaiitoday/status/1331387461528924162


https://twitter.com/westhawaiitoday/status/1290739666623303681


https://twitter.com/TMZ/status/228596649679798272



https://twitter.com/KHONnews/status/633514949390635008

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2021, 08:06:53 AM

In crane news, the tilting crane is gone now, they appear to be breaking down the two mobile cranes, street still closed.

I felt kind of crappy yesterday but feel OK this morning.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 26, 2021, 08:07:42 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 25, 2021, 04:19:47 PM

That's just selfish, isn't it?

No, it was the law at the time. I don't remember the exact circumstance, but there were provisions in law that prevented slave owners from freeing their slaves. They however could be freed upon the death of the slave owner. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2021, 08:42:23 AM

I had to deal with this in my book, if you were a slave who was freed, what would you do with yourself?

You might not have any awareness of the world beyond ten miles.  Where could you go?  I'd guess many stayed in the same place.  But imagine you drifted away, could you find work somewhere?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 26, 2021, 09:52:58 AM

Good point how would they have any experience in the working world

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 26, 2021, 09:58:11 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 25, 2021, 04:22:00 PM

a - I moved off the Rez almost 4 years ago
b - teaching their children for free is taking advantage?
.
*before you respond, consider I MIGHT know a little about it

So who's subsidizing you know ?ANTIFA?No I won't extend to you that courtesy since you won't/don't do it for others

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 10:35:32 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 26, 2021, 09:58:11 AM

So who's subsidizing you know ?ANTIFA?No I won't extend to you that courtesy since you won't/don't do it for others

What does antifa have to do with personal attacks against me on this forum?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 10:36:36 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 26, 2021, 08:42:23 AM

I had to deal with this in my book, if you were a slave who was freed, what would you do with yourself?

You might not have any awareness of the world beyond ten miles.  Where could you go?  I'd guess many stayed in the same place.  But imagine you drifted away, could you find work somewhere?

And this is why the southern US is (STILL) populated by the two groups with a horrific history with each other. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 26, 2021, 10:37:04 AM

Personal attacks - you make me Larf - poor baybee

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 10:38:14 AM

Those Colt Brennan photos could just be hair-growth updates during covid quarantine, lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 10:39:16 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 26, 2021, 10:37:04 AM

Personal attacks - you make me Larf - poor baybee

It's not whining to accurately label a person attack as such.  It's merely factual.  But thanks for avoiding my question.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 26, 2021, 10:41:41 AM

Did you fall down the stairs again?Have them dial back the voltage at the home

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 10:47:32 AM

Still not answering.  You could be a right-wing pundit on the news 'commentary' shows.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2021, 10:48:40 AM

So, in my book is farm run by a widow and her daughter, who happens to marry my "hero" (starts in 1858).  They have black farm workers and two who take care of the house, but none are slaves.  They have aspirations to go "somewhere", but where?  And they like it where they are, pretty much.  They get paid, some, and share in the proceeds generated by farming.  The whites still live in the Big House and the blacks live in small houses which they have repaired and made to be neat.

One, the house sort of maitre d' is fairly sophisticated, but where could he go, rationally?  It's a hundred miles to a slave free state, at least.  A black female does the cooking and washing and ends up married to the other hero of the book, a slave that our white hero frees.  So, he's a freedman now, great, and gets paid, but where can he go?

He ends up following our hero into the Confederate Army and has a remarkable event that alters history, but that's in Book Two.

Our two heroes spent on summer at his uncles in Chambersburg, PA, which has some relevance later in the book (2).  The farm workers are all white and do not take kindly to the black person's presence.  The uncle is a progressive sort, a "Republican".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 26, 2021, 01:08:07 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 26, 2021, 10:37:04 AM

Personal attacks - you make me Larf - poor baybee

He can dish it, but he cannot take it. 

What a surprise. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 26, 2021, 01:29:50 PM

my question is is there any subject to talk about that OAM wont make a race issue out of it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 01:31:43 PM

lol, it doesn't bother me.  But it seems as if anytime I've moved on, one of you "goes lower."  Not sure it's a good use of your time, but hey, that's your business.  But to think it affects me is lovely.  
And he still hasn't answered my question.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 01:33:25 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 26, 2021, 01:29:50 PM

my question is is there any subject to talk about that OAM wont make a race issue out of it

I was actually making a joke that one of you would have made.  And it's lost on you.  That I actually did something one of you would have done - you're hellbent on believing I'm with the far-left, drinking the kool-aid.  
Sorry I don't check every box down your column of "evil, stupid radical liberals" list.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 26, 2021, 01:36:44 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 01:33:25 PM

I was actually making a joke that one of you would have made.  And it's lost on you.  That I actually did something one of you would have done - you're hellbent on believing I'm with the far-left, drinking the kool-aid. 
Sorry I don't check every box down your column of "evil, stupid radical liberals" list.

you seem to make some form of that "joke" over and over

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2021, 01:38:07 PM

I thought he was joking and took it that way.

I realize OAM has a history of pot-stirring, but some of you might be a little too sensative.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 26, 2021, 01:41:37 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 26, 2021, 01:38:07 PM

I thought he was joking and took it that way.

I realize OAM has a history of pot-stirring, but some of you might be a little too sensative.

you bet Im sensative about that subject

for the past 4 years as a white man and a Trump supporter Im considered a racist and it gets a bit old

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 01:44:45 PM

And THAT, my friends, is the victim card.  LMAO

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 01:47:35 PM

Back to actual news (for me):  our district is going back to in-person schooling for those families who chose it.  I'll still be teaching online for those who did not want to come back.  
Every day is the same.  That's the tough part - not the isolation, but the monotony.  
.
Teachers were asked which they'd prefer, and in my apathy said I'd do either in-person or not.  The other ladies in my grade level chose in-person, so I'll be at the computer for this whole school year.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 26, 2021, 01:50:33 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 01:44:45 PM

And THAT, my friends, is the victim card.  LMAO

I still cant play it as well as you do but Im trying

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 26, 2021, 01:53:16 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 01:31:43 PM

  But to think it affects me is lovely. 
And he still hasn't answered my question. 

I troll trolls there's your answer.Evidently it does affect you because you're back frothing and pouting about personal attacks

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2021, 01:53:55 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 01:44:45 PM

And THAT, my friends, is the victim card.  LMAO

Meh, it has become the de facto ad hominem attack of stupid, simple-minded people that lean left, to paint all those who don't agree with their opinions, as racists.

That's not a matter of victimhood, it's just a fact, as you like to say.

It doesn't really bother me though, because I'm neither stupid, nor a racist.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 01:54:09 PM

When have I been a victim?  I'm a white male and I don't feel like I've been called a racist.  Maybe it's more about the vote you cast and NOT your race?  Ironic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 26, 2021, 01:54:33 PM

So fro deploys personal attacks, gets back what he gives, whines about it, and then says that other people are playing the victim card?

He definitely picked a fitting user name, as he really is just a clown with clown shoes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 01:54:56 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 26, 2021, 01:53:16 PM

I troll trolls there's your answer.Evidently it does affect you because you're back frothing and pouting about personal attacks

Making note of it and frothing are a little different.  Do some research.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 01:55:19 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 26, 2021, 01:53:55 PM

Meh, it has become the de facto ad hominem attack of stupid, simple-minded people that lean left, to paint all those who don't agree with their opinions, as racists.

That's not a matter of victimhood, it's just a fact, as you like to say.

It doesn't really bother me though, because I'm neither stupid, nor a racist.

Good post.  Thank you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 01:56:16 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on February 26, 2021, 01:54:33 PM

So fro deploys personal attacks, gets back what he gives, whines about it, and then says that other people are playing the victim card?

He definitely picked a fitting user name, as he really is just a clown with clown shoes.

See, when you guys (who always complain about me) use personal attacks, that's called "hypocrisy."  But instead of acknowledging that, you say I'm whining.  
Whining isn't the pointing out of hypocrisy.  
Do some research.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 26, 2021, 01:57:59 PM

All you do is post personal attacks. Yes we are going to point and laugh when you wheedle and whine about getting a tiny dose of your own medicine. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2021, 02:04:35 PM

Guys, we've all done it, none of us are above the fray, none of us have the high ground.

Except for badgerfan. He's beyond reproach.

So, can we just move on?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 26, 2021, 02:17:34 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 01:54:56 PM

Making note of it and frothing are a little different.  Do some research.

I did last summer when you gave cheer to those tearing down buildings and torching towns/cities all over the place.Then you dulley noted that those helping the less fortunate were only doing it so as to manipulate them at a later date.Or do you now conveniently have amnesia again.Would you like me to dig that conversation up?Perhaps you should ask Badger Fan why he had to point out to you that he employs 30 people who pay taxes so public emplyees can in turn be paid.Trying to paint him into a corner like he was the MAN holding down your oppressed brick tossers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 26, 2021, 02:18:31 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 26, 2021, 02:04:35 PM

Guys, we've all done it, none of us are above the fray, none of us have the high ground.

Except for badgerfan. He's beyond reproach.

So, can we just move on?

OKAY now lock the thread

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2021, 02:19:21 PM

I like this thread.  It's fun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 02:33:57 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 26, 2021, 02:04:35 PM

Guys, we've all done it, none of us are above the fray, none of us have the high ground.

Except for badgerfan. He's beyond reproach.

So, can we just move on?

I tried.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2021, 02:35:35 PM

Well I've said my piece.

Y'all can keep picking away at each other, if you like.  It's a free country after all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 02:40:10 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 26, 2021, 02:17:34 PM

I did last summer when you gave cheer to those tearing down buildings and torching towns/cities all over the place.Then you dulley noted that those helping the less fortunate were only doing it so as to manipulate them at a later date.Or do you now conveniently have amnesia again.Would you like me to dig that conversation up?Perhaps you should ask Badger Fan why he had to point out to you that he employs 30 people who pay taxes so public emplyees can in turn be paid.Trying to paint him into a corner like he was the MAN holding down your oppressed brick tossers

Wow, now I'm convinced you ARE a far-right pundit on the non-news shows on the news channel.
I agree with whatever I said back then.  
I'm not sure where I gave cheer to those torching towns, but that's part of your narrative.  No, I wasn't out marching with them, because my ass stayed home during a pandemic.

I'd love to say I'm for "all lives matter," but I can't, because a certain side made that phrase mean a slanted, political thing.  And I don't know how this thread got here, but here we are.

I'll note, again, how obscure it is for largely rural america to have so much emotional investment in some downtown shops in big cities.  Your seemingly random empathy is pretty gross.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 02:48:47 PM

Can we please talk about something else?  Bash me somewhere else, everyone doesn't need to see this crap over and over.  I'm sorry that I don't just bend over and take it like you want me to.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 26, 2021, 03:09:14 PM

You're such a victim!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 26, 2021, 03:13:30 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 26, 2021, 02:35:35 PM

Well I've said my piece.

Y'all can keep picking away at each other, if you like.  It's a free country after all.

For now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 03:34:41 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on February 26, 2021, 03:09:14 PM

You're such a victim!

I guess I'm trying to do it for the good of the people.  Like Gavin Newsome!!!!  
He can keep his 80's Gordon Gecko hair.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2021, 04:11:28 PM

At least the CFB HoF had minimal damage and reopened.

It's kinda neat.

Obviously, most lives matter, to some extent.  I should make a T shirt that says "Some lives matter, but not yours."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 06:14:23 PM

I wish I could have a job at the college football HOF as a curator or something.  A guide maybe.  That'd be a helluva job.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 26, 2021, 06:59:28 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 02:40:10 PM

Wow, now I'm convinced you ARE a far-right pundit on the non-news shows on the news channel.
I agree with whatever I said back then. 

But here is some of your smashing riposte you must bristle with pride
https://www.cfb51.com/big-ten/2020-nfl-draft-thread/686/  or  https://www.cfb51.com/big-ten/2020-nfl-draft-thread/700/

your natural predisposition to morph into the douche nozzle will not be denied

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 07:44:49 PM

Exhibit E of you being unable to move on.  No one cares about my old posts.  Most of you don't care about my current ones.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 26, 2021, 07:50:43 PM

https://www.cfb51.com/big-ten/2020-offseason-stream-of-unconciousness/7280/
Oh no it's always fun to point out your miscreant,mindless babble wondering if one day the light bulb may go off and you feel a need to delete something.That may one day be used against you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 26, 2021, 08:26:31 PM

Fro's bulb burnt out a long time ago. 

They just tell him what to think, then he thinks it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 10:03:05 PM

I don't see anything incorrect with my previous posts.  You keep linking them as if they're damning, but they're not.  I go by the statistics.  You seem to go by what Sean Hannity wants you to.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 10:07:19 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 26, 2021, 07:50:43 PM

https://www.cfb51.com/big-ten/2020-offseason-stream-of-unconciousness/7280/
Oh no it's always fun to point out your miscreant,mindless babble wondering if one day the light bulb may go off and you feel a need to delete something.That may one day be used against you

What fantasyland world do you live in that I would go back through months of posts here to delete something?  You're in O.J. land.
.
All I'm going to say is that it's all related:  abortion > religion > race > socioeconomics > yes, a slave class > Rs vs Ds > gerrymandering > voter suppression
.
To pretend it's not is folly.  Sorry, I'm not old school and give religion and politics a free pass (that we shouldn't talk about it).  That's how you try to stunt progress.  Not gonna be a part of that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2021, 06:29:50 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 06:14:23 PM

I wish I could have a job at the college football HOF as a curator or something.  A guide maybe.  That'd be a helluva job. 

Your guide there is your badge which has RFID built in, it's pretty slick really I thought.

I don't think one needs a human guide to enjoy it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 27, 2021, 08:56:15 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 10:07:19 PM

What fantasyland world do you live in that I would go back through months of posts here to delete something?  You're in O.J. land.

Find out out when the Arizona Board of Education receives your Pearls of Wisdom that you so graciously share with the congregation here.Until then go frolick with your ANTIFA Overlords.And what do you know about progress while sucking on the governments tits you give cheer those who tear down businesses that pay slappies like you to have a job?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2021, 09:02:12 AM

I suggest we move along to other news.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 27, 2021, 09:03:49 AM

Yes please.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 27, 2021, 09:04:17 AM

I have been sleeping terribly late. I would ask the group at large for tips on better sleep, but I think going to bed before midnight should probably be my first move. Bleh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 27, 2021, 09:11:29 AM

Editorial: Former House Speaker Michael Madigan’s pension illustrates the broken system - Chicago Tribune (https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-fixing-illinois-chicago-budget-madigan-pension-20210226-tt4kmbn7hbetldxgez57x4ioqq-story.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on February 27, 2021, 09:54:04 AM

You're not the only one not sleeping well, but going to bed at 10:30 and waking up at 3 stinks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 27, 2021, 10:03:57 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?topic=18271.msg317480#msg317480) 2/27/2021, 7:04:17 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 27, 2021, 09:04:17 AM

I have been sleeping terribly late. I would ask the group at large for tips on better sleep, but I think going to bed before midnight should probably be my first move. Bleh.

Zquil will put you under.



You can also get gel tabs that contain the exact same active ingredient, and they are quite a bit cheaper.

(you definately want to take them before midnight)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 27, 2021, 10:07:01 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on February 27, 2021, 09:54:04 AM

You're not the only one not sleeping well, but going to bed at 10:30 and waking up at 3 stinks.

or you could go to bed at 1 AM and get up at 7 AM then take naps in your easy chair like me

what a life

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2021, 10:09:09 AM

ZZquil is one of the ingredients in cold "medications".  They charge the same and give less.

The various store brands are identical.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2021, 10:16:39 AM

Was There a Civilization on Earth Before Humans? - The Atlantic (https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/04/are-we-earths-only-civilization/557180/?utm_campaign=the-atlantic&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR10P2dGN4d4pZ2xPhFKRN_jIU5XaYguxvxYSNPfPxjH_4ujfb_D5qSQo9k)

Thoughts about the possibility of some advanced industrial civilization 100 million years ago, on Earth, one answer to the Fermi paradox.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 27, 2021, 10:17:12 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2021, 10:09:09 AM

ZZquil is one of the ingredients in cold "medications".  They charge the same and give less.

The various store brands are identical.

Yeah, that's why I recommended the store brand gel tabs.

Here's the Wally World one. 



(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/818JdIBsOaL._AC_SS450_.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 27, 2021, 10:22:27 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 27, 2021, 10:07:01 AM

or you could go to bed at 1 AM and get up at 7 AM then take naps in your easy chair like me

what a life

Wish I could do that,I'm out like a rail road tie for 5 hrs and that's it.Maybe I should stop drinking coffee but that just about 4 cups before noon

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2021, 10:23:06 AM

The Wally World generics is what I buy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2021, 10:24:19 AM

The only products my old company made that I really like and still use are Dawn, Charmin, and Bounty.

Well, the wife likes Bounty and Charmin better so I get them for her.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 27, 2021, 10:27:43 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 27, 2021, 10:22:27 AM

Wish I could do that,I'm out like a rail road tie for 5 hrs and that's it.Maybe I should stop drinking coffee but that just about 4 cups before noon

I have 1 cuo of coffee and 1 coke a day hopefully my caffeine level is not out of hand

Ive always been an early riser so no matter when I go to bed I get up no later then 7

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2021, 10:32:35 AM

I'm waking up around 4-5 AM to pee and then can't get back to sleep.  I sleep about 6 hours.  I get a bit tired around 5 PM and then recover.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 27, 2021, 10:32:41 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on February 27, 2021, 09:54:04 AM

You're not the only one not sleeping well, but going to bed at 10:30 and waking up at 3 stinks.

Amen. I don't think I've had a good night of sleep in almost two weeks now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 27, 2021, 10:33:47 AM

I love that when I want to move on - for the good of the other posters - doesn't happen.  Someone else says the same - boom!  It's done.  
Awesome stuff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 27, 2021, 10:42:09 AM

If I were you I'd search out another board that was more to your liking. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 27, 2021, 10:44:15 AM

Eat my ass

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 27, 2021, 10:47:19 AM

Like that movie Alive? 

(https://i.imgur.com/ZK7nd2p.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 27, 2021, 10:48:49 AM

Like there are some old-as-dirt people here that should maybe try growing up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2021, 10:56:38 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJJ-ZLdrTwY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2021, 10:56:41 AM

Dirt is a general term, so it's not possible to assess its age, but I'd say it's broadly older than any living human.

I'd like to know more about plastic pollution in the oceans.  We see these photos of course.  But when I fly over an ocean or visit a beach I don't see that sort of thing, I suspect the waste accumulates in smaller areas due to ocean currents.  Someone takes a photo and implies everything is like that.

It's similar to photos of the Tenderloin district in SF.  It's pretty bad, but it's not the whole city, or even a major part of it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 27, 2021, 11:10:59 AM

Most of the plastic is what I'd describe as pulverized and is tiny pieces.  Also, much of it doesn't float on top of the water, but at a level below.  That's why there's no giant plastic heap the size of Texas circulating in a spot in the Pacific that you can fly over and easily spot.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 27, 2021, 11:13:58 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 27, 2021, 10:48:49 AM

Like there are some old-as-dirt people here that should maybe try growing up.

Once again, we are exactly the same age. 

But I look a lot younger. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2021, 11:19:38 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 27, 2021, 11:10:59 AM

Most of the plastic is what I'd describe as pulverized and is tiny pieces.  Also, much of it doesn't float on top of the water, but at a level below.  That's why there's no giant plastic heap the size of Texas circulating in a spot in the Pacific that you can fly over and easily spot. 

Yup, all of this.  It breaks down some, but not entirely.  And then it sinks just below the surface so it can't really be seen from above.

There's a lot of research and effort going into determining if there's some way to harvest it and re-use it.  Ideally we'd get to a point where it's profitable to harvest rather than manufacture new, in which case the problem would take care of itself.  But even if it got to the point where it were neutral or even just slightly more expensive, I think we'd have a large number of Good Actors engaging in it.  We're still a LONG way off from that, of course, but I'll never say never.

The very large computer manufacturing corporation I work for does a lot of work in eco-friendly packaging, and is also investing in ocean plastics work, but mostly from the perspective of preventing it from entering our waterways to begin with.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2021, 11:43:44 AM

The main problem with recycling plastics, and it's a HUGE problem, is having a mixture of different types of plastic.  Most of it is polyethylene, fairly easy to recycle IF it's a pure stream, or has minor impurities.  But, your milk jug is PE, fine, and the CAP is PP (polypropylene).  Coke bottles are PET.  Fishing line is nylon.

You get all this crap together and you can't do anything with it but burn it.

Then you have polystyrene, which is usually from packaging, the white foam stuff.  Then there is polyurethane, usually foam stuff inside pillows and whatnot or insulation.

And then you have rubber tires, which technically isn't plastic and usually isn't in the same stream.  Usually.

Most stuff we put in the recycling bin goes to landfill.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 27, 2021, 11:55:56 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2021, 11:43:44 AM

The main problem with recycling plastics, and it's a HUGE problem, is having a mixture of different types of plastic.  Most of it is polyethylene, fairly easy to recycle IF it's a pure stream, or has minor impurities.  But, your milk jug is PE, fine, and the CAP is PP (polypropylene).  Coke bottles are PET.  Fishing line is nylon.

My brother worked for a company in this line of work.He even went over to China 3X.Didn't know putting caps on bottles was so involved

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 27, 2021, 12:04:35 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/wrCDflI.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/MAlpjE0.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/G5JsrZo.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 27, 2021, 12:39:37 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 27, 2021, 09:04:17 AM

I have been sleeping terribly late. I would ask the group at large for tips on better sleep, but I think going to bed before midnight should probably be my first move. Bleh.

Do you have any sleep irregularities?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on February 27, 2021, 01:15:18 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2021, 10:38:14 AM

Those Colt Brennan photos could just be hair-growth updates during covid quarantine, lol.

Lol, see, going through those Colt Brennan mishaps is our focal point for when we find out some of our peers who did socially well in high school are not doing so well now. It parallels especially well because Colt is only a few years older (mid-30s) and after a dozen years lost in in translation you come to find out, like several of your high school buddies, they've picked up some baggage. I only recently found out that two of the dudes I hung out with nearly everyday of high school have done time for drug arrests. One is a surprise, the other everyone saw going down the drain.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2021, 01:26:51 PM

There is a temperature at which plastics will depolymerize if no oxygen is present, and you can in theory collect the gases coming off to use to make more polymers.  

It's a lot cheaper to make monomers from petroleum or NG or even coal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2021, 01:29:44 PM

I passed 70,000 words on Book 3 and decided to end it there, so there will be a Book 4.

Now I need to proof read which I hate.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 28, 2021, 09:07:06 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/IxC462C.jpg)

I wonder how hard he could throw today, and if he throws "for fun".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 28, 2021, 09:10:05 AM

When Betelgeuse goes supernova, what will it look like from Earth? | Astronomy.com (https://astronomy.com/news/2020/02/when-betelgeuse-goes-supernova-what-will-it-look-like-from-earth?utm_source=asyfb&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=asyfb&fbclid=IwAR2nPeNELuH_CFxvuhmThd1xn2_G-ELgYJ41W6lSNm4c3x3zrOdZm817VbY)

(https://i.imgur.com/XrKKjo4.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 28, 2021, 10:00:16 AM

I don't know what to say here, so I'll just let stand for itself.

Newsom appears to post TikTok inside restaurant, denies eating there | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/newsom-appears-to-post-tik-tok-inside-restaurant-in-county-where-indoor-dining-is-not-allowed)


(https://i.imgur.com/AV5kTQb.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 28, 2021, 10:07:12 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 28, 2021, 09:10:05 AM

When Betelgeuse goes supernova, what will it look like from Earth? | Astronomy.com (https://astronomy.com/news/2020/02/when-betelgeuse-goes-supernova-what-will-it-look-like-from-earth?utm_source=asyfb&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=asyfb&fbclid=IwAR2nPeNELuH_CFxvuhmThd1xn2_G-ELgYJ41W6lSNm4c3x3zrOdZm817VbY)

(https://i.imgur.com/XrKKjo4.png)

That'd be pretty cool. Up to 100+ days of something becoming the second-brightest object in the night sky... And potentially on the upper end almost rivaling a full moon. 

When the puppy woke me up at 5:20 AM this morning to take him out to go potty (thanks, Jake!), it was still dark except for the full moon--which was bright enough to cast shadows. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 28, 2021, 10:37:36 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 28, 2021, 09:10:05 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/XrKKjo4.png)


(https://i.imgur.com/XRh9qRd.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 28, 2021, 10:44:27 AM

Unfortunately for us, this supernova could be tomorrow, or in a million years (probably less).  It would be supercool, and the reactions by the less informed among us would be epic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 28, 2021, 12:05:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 28, 2021, 10:44:27 AM

Unfortunately for us, this supernova could be tomorrow, or in a million years (probably less).  It would be supercool, and the reactions by the less informed among us would be epic.

nor close enough to hurt us

just another moon in the sky

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 28, 2021, 12:11:46 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2021, 01:26:51 PM

There is a temperature at which plastics will depolymerize if no oxygen is present, and you can in theory collect the gases coming off to use to make more polymers. 

It's a lot cheaper to make monomers from petroleum or NG or even coal.

 The very large computer manufacturing company that I work for, uses a cool product called AirCarbon for some of its packaging.  The process actually pulls carbon out of the atmosphere to produce the plastic sheeting.


https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20140520006916/en/Dell-Introduces-New-Packaging-Takes-Greenhouse-Gases-Out-of-the-Air-and-Builds-PCs-Reusing-Plastic-from-Recycled-Electronics#:~:text=Dell's%20new%20packaging%20is%20based,become%20part%20of%20the%20air.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 28, 2021, 05:37:54 PM

Newlight’s AirCarbon hits the market running (plasticstoday.com) (https://www.plasticstoday.com/newlights-aircarbon-hits-market-running)

This looks expensive, money perhaps spent for a PR purpose rather than something of substance.

The figures I've seen show normal plants do a far better job of converting CO2 to something with substance (cellulose for example).

PHA: A biopolymer whose time has finally come (acs.org) (https://cen.acs.org/business/biobased-chemicals/PHA-biopolymer-whose-time-finally/97/i35)

I was involved in this when Metabolix made a run and creating a market.  They failed miserably.  This stuff is very small relative to the market for polyethylene, but it looks nice for public relations.

While the price of polymers such as PP and PE is around US$0.60–0.87/lb, PHA biopolymer cost is estimated to be 3–4 times higher, ranging between US$2.25–2.75/lb [7,8]

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 28, 2021, 08:48:20 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 26, 2021, 02:04:35 PM

Guys, we've all done it, none of us are above the fray, none of us have the high ground.

Except for badgerfan. He's beyond reproach.

So, can we just move on?

so, after being on vacation for a week, going back 2 days is plenty to catch up?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 28, 2021, 08:49:56 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 28, 2021, 09:07:06 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/IxC462C.jpg)

I wonder how hard he could throw today, and if he throws "for fun".

not sure you'd want him throwing for fun at your camp while you were diggin in the batter's box

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 28, 2021, 08:53:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 28, 2021, 10:44:27 AM

Unfortunately for us, this supernova could be tomorrow, or in a million years (probably less).  It would be supercool, and the reactions by the less informed among us would be epic.

Wouldn't a supernova we see tomorrow have happened millions of years ago?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 28, 2021, 09:02:26 PM

Not when it is 642.5 light-years away, as is the case here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 28, 2021, 10:02:20 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 28, 2021, 05:37:54 PM

Newlight’s AirCarbon hits the market running (plasticstoday.com) (https://www.plasticstoday.com/newlights-aircarbon-hits-market-running)

This looks expensive, money perhaps spent for a PR purpose rather than something of substance.

The figures I've seen show normal plants do a far better job of converting CO2 to something with substance (cellulose for example).

PHA: A biopolymer whose time has finally come (acs.org) (https://cen.acs.org/business/biobased-chemicals/PHA-biopolymer-whose-time-finally/97/i35)

I was involved in this when Metabolix made a run and creating a market.  They failed miserably.  This stuff is very small relative to the market for polyethylene, but it looks nice for public relations.

While the price of polymers such as PP and PE is around US$0.60–0.87/lb, PHA biopolymer cost is estimated to be 3–4 times higher, ranging between US$2.25–2.75/lb [7,8]

It is expensive, relatively speaking.  It's also a valuable project.  We've also done packaging using bamboo, and mushrooms.  It's going to take some experimentation and some commitment to bring viable products to market.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on March 01, 2021, 12:17:19 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 28, 2021, 10:00:16 AM

I don't know what to say here, so I'll just let stand for itself.

Newsom appears to post TikTok inside restaurant, denies eating there | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/newsom-appears-to-post-tik-tok-inside-restaurant-in-county-where-indoor-dining-is-not-allowed)

Give the guy a break, this is his good faith attempt to absorb heat away from his Emmy winning buddy running New York on fraud, bullying, and sexual harassment.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 01, 2021, 12:21:06 AM

Political bingo?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2021, 05:32:34 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 28, 2021, 10:02:20 PM

It is expensive, relatively speaking.  It's also a valuable project.  We've also done packaging using bamboo, and mushrooms.  It's going to take some experimentation and some commitment to bring viable products to market.

I'm pretty jaded on these things, been there done that kind of outlook.  This stuff, all of it, has been around for decades now.  The core issues aren't going away, I can't see how "commitment" fixes them.  But, it's a great PR bump for a company, often as not.  They spend some money for PR anyway, and this is one way to do it.

After the PR is done, the numbers guys start wanting to save a few bucks and it goes away, quietly, and no one notices.  Back in the 90's and 00's, soda/water bottle makers advertised using some PHA in their bottles, and then it quietly went away.  I worked for several years on a project that was of this ilk because of the notion landfills were filling up with diapers.  That was a completely false notion of course hyped by the insane media, you'll notice you don't hear that fear at all today.  It's not because there was any solution, it's because the problem definition was clearly wrong, and faked.

I was personally spending Company money like crazy during that period.  It took me a while to realize it was only a PR project, it wasn't meant to DO anything.

PHA was one of the primary candidates for one product, also polyethylene made from bagasse in Brazil, that was some other outfit and it came to naught.  We're supposed to be using cellulosic ethanol now, but that also went to nearly zip.

So much of this stuff is vaporware, just really fake at the core, for PR.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 01, 2021, 09:31:27 AM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on March 01, 2021, 12:17:19 AM

Give the guy a break, this is his good faith attempt to absorb heat away from his Emmy winning buddy running New York on fraud, bullying, and sexual harassment.

Poor attempt. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2021, 10:30:45 AM

The crane saga is ending.  I am impressed with how quickly they managed this.

WEST PEACHTREE ROAD CLOSURE UPDATE: Exceptional progress was made this past weekend in regards to the tower crane at 1105 West Peachtree.The crane was safely dismantled and crews are now in the process of removing the two support cranes that were brought in to remove the original crane. On Friday, residents were allowed to return to their homes and officials are now working with affected business to ensure the area is safe so employees can return to work.

Closures on West Peachtree between 10th and 14th Streets and on side streets will continue through the early part of this week as crews continue to clear the area. We will continue to provide updates as we receive them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 01, 2021, 01:22:27 PM

You're right they did a bang up job.My nephew has lived in the ATL for over 20 yrs.The 2 streets he lived on had Peach something or other in it.Can't they name something Pecan or Praline?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 01, 2021, 04:28:14 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 01, 2021, 05:32:34 AM

I'm pretty jaded on these things, been there done that kind of outlook.  This stuff, all of it, has been around for decades now.  The core issues aren't going away, I can't see how "commitment" fixes them.  But, it's a great PR bump for a company, often as not.  They spend some money for PR anyway, and this is one way to do it.

After the PR is done, the numbers guys start wanting to save a few bucks and it goes away, quietly, and no one notices.  Back in the 90's and 00's, soda/water bottle makers advertised using some PHA in their bottles, and then it quietly went away.  I worked for several years on a project that was of this ilk because of the notion landfills were filling up with diapers.  That was a completely false notion of course hyped by the insane media, you'll notice you don't hear that fear at all today.  It's not because there was any solution, it's because the problem definition was clearly wrong, and faked.

I was personally spending Company money like crazy during that period.  It took me a while to realize it was only a PR project, it wasn't meant to DO anything.

PHA was one of the primary candidates for one product, also polyethylene made from bagasse in Brazil, that was some other outfit and it came to naught.  We're supposed to be using cellulosic ethanol now, but that also went to nearly zip.

So much of this stuff is vaporware, just really fake at the core, for PR.

We use it on high margin products.  We can afford to.  And of course it's good for PR. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2021, 04:49:03 PM

I forget how many tons of PE  we used just in diaper backsheets, but it was a lot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 01, 2021, 10:01:01 PM

in other news............

@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) asked about my golfing and BoneDaddy's Texas Trip?

some good, some bad...

Golfing on Monday, Tuesday, & Wednesday was fabulous.  3 days in shorts at great courses.

the tradition of a stop at BoneDaddy's was not to be...... the BoneDaddy's in Grapevine up north by Colleyville has closed permanently.  That meant we would have to drive to I-20 South of Arlington.  That didn't happen.

We did stop for a Bloody Mary & a few beers at Hooters on the way to the course one morning.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 01, 2021, 10:26:48 PM

Bone daddy's in the ATX is closed as well.  Didn't survive covid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 01, 2021, 10:35:00 PM

damn COVID

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 01, 2021, 11:15:51 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 01, 2021, 05:32:34 AM

After the PR is done, the numbers guys start wanting to save a few bucks and it goes away, quietly, and no one notices.  Back in the 90's and 00's, soda/water bottle makers advertised using some PHA in their bottles, and then it quietly went away.  I worked for several years on a project that was of this ilk because of the notion landfills were filling up with diapers.  That was a completely false notion of course hyped by the insane media, you'll notice you don't hear that fear at all today.  It's not because there was any solution, it's because the problem definition was clearly wrong, and faked.

Well now I'm curious. Were the diapers degrading? Or were they just not at such a volume that it mattered?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on March 02, 2021, 01:10:04 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 01, 2021, 09:31:27 AM

Poor attempt.

https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1366606317734002688

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 02, 2021, 07:09:04 AM

Between Trump and Cuomo we've had some real turds in office

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 02, 2021, 07:24:45 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 02, 2021, 07:09:04 AM

Between Trump and Cuomo we've had some real turds in office

That is just the beginning of the list of turds in office. Long long list.    Most still in office. Both red and blue.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 02, 2021, 07:54:29 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 01, 2021, 10:01:01 PM

in other news............

@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) asked about my golfing and BoneDaddy's Texas Trip?

some good, some bad...

Sorry to see your Bone Daddy's tradition go by the way side.Prolly not the same w/o HH anyway

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 02, 2021, 08:54:43 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 02, 2021, 07:24:45 AM

That is just the beginning of the list of turds in office. Long long list. Most still in office. Both red and blue. 

Yup.

Nancy Pelosi (an evil vile bitch), Chuck Schumer (a dirty lying sack of shit), Diane Feinstein (a literal moron- who as Mayor of San Fransisco- literally torpedoed "The Night Stalker" serial killer investigation by going on live tv and publicly revealing information secret to the investigation), Mitch McConnell (Satan re-incarnate), and AOC (an idiot bartender) say hi.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 02, 2021, 09:09:13 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 02, 2021, 07:24:45 AM

That is just the beginning of the list of turds in office. Long long list.    Most still in office. Both red and blue. 

How do we break the spell of both congress having basically no approval ratings AND incumbents being generally safe?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 02, 2021, 09:16:16 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 02, 2021, 09:09:13 AM

How do we break the spell of both congress having basically no approval ratings AND incumbents being generally safe? 

Giant meteor. That would do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 02, 2021, 09:16:53 AM

In other news, McD's prepping for that $15/hour thing. 


The One Change You May Notice at McDonald's Drive-Thru (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/the-one-change-you-may-notice-at-mcdonald-s-drive-thru/ar-BB1e7ECW?ocid=msedgntp)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 02, 2021, 09:23:54 AM

As long as the creepy AI robots destined to take over all look like Jessica Alba, I'll allow it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 02, 2021, 10:04:42 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 02, 2021, 09:23:54 AM

As long as the creepy AI robots destined to take over all look like Jessica Alba, I'll allow it.

I’m in!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 02, 2021, 11:30:43 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 02, 2021, 07:09:04 AM

Between Trump and Cuomo we've had some real turds in office

there's miles of room between those two and miles of turds obviously

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 02, 2021, 11:32:45 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 02, 2021, 07:54:29 AM

Sorry to see your Bone Daddy's tradition go by the way side.Prolly not the same w/o HH anyway

we shall simply chalk it up to COVID and restart the tradition with a vengeance next time I visit
apparently the one on I-20 south of Arlington is still open
hurray!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 02, 2021, 11:50:15 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 02, 2021, 09:09:13 AM

How do we break the spell of both congress having basically no approval ratings AND incumbents being generally safe? 

If you check polls on how folks  like THEIR Representative, the numbers in general are pretty high.  (I believe less than half of Americans could even name our Representative, I'm guilty of that as well.)

It's those OTHER bastages who are evil, not mine.  Whoever he or she may be.  I should look it up.

Nikema Williams is her name.  She replaced that famous dude who died last year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 02, 2021, 12:07:08 PM

the reps with name recognition have usually earned it by stupid acts

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 02, 2021, 02:02:33 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 02, 2021, 11:30:43 AM

there's miles of room between those two and miles of turds obviously

I mean between being creepy towards women, being abusive to anyone who doesn't do what they want, and taking all sorts of victory laps  on some pretty incompetent performance, they are practically the same person

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 02, 2021, 02:30:01 PM

they are all practically the same person

that's why I don't believe terms limits will change much of anything besides names and faces

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 02, 2021, 02:48:16 PM

I don't aspire to having term limits simply because it seems unrealistic to expect them to happen nationally.

If I could  wave a magic wand, we'd have term limits and age limits on judges, but I can't, otherwise the Dawgs would have more NCs since 1980.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 02, 2021, 03:38:02 PM

aspiring to have term limits is similar to aspiring to force politicians to have the same health care and retirement plans as citizens.

just not possible

not worth thinking about

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 02, 2021, 04:02:45 PM

We can all sleep better at night knowing Dr Seuss has been cancelled

Thank You President Biden

Whats next?  Grimm's Fairy Tales?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 02, 2021, 05:02:33 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 02, 2021, 04:02:45 PM

We can all sleep better at night knowing Dr Seuss has been cancelled

Thank You President Biden

Whats next?  Grimm's Fairy Tales?

[color=rgb( var(--theme-link) )]https://www.bustle.com/articles/148509-obama-praises-dr-seuss-for-teaching-him-empathy-and-responsibility (https://www.bustle.com/articles/148509-obama-praises-dr-seuss-for-teaching-him-empathy-and-responsibility)[/url][/font][/size][/color]

Obama Says Dr. Seuss Is The Best Teacher

It's no secret that President Obama is an avid reader. But, he just got even more cred with book-lovers by praising everybody's favorite children's author: yep, Obama loves Dr. Seuss. In a Q&A session with interns, (paid or unpaid?) 

Obama admitted that "pretty much all the stuff you need to know is in Dr. Seuss." And of course, he's spot on....(snip)
[color=rgb( var(--theme-link) )](https://imgix.bustle.com/rehost/2016/9/13/c5608371-f254-4c1e-b7c2-7f6b806fb0ca.jpg?w=800&fit=crop&crop=faces&auto=format,compress) (https://imgix.bustle.com/rehost/2016/9/13/c5608371-f254-4c1e-b7c2-7f6b806fb0ca.jpg?w=800&fit=crop&crop=faces&auto=format,compress)[/iurl][/font][/size][/color]

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 02, 2021, 05:03:42 PM

SMDH

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 02, 2021, 05:04:38 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 02, 2021, 02:30:01 PM

they are all practically the same person

that's why I don't believe terms limits will change much of anything besides names and faces

It needs to be like jury duty.  
Something you probably don't look forward to, but it's your duty as a citizen when called upon.  Make it so you get your previous year's salary in the role AND GET RID OF THE @*(%^@#(%*_@ LOBBYISTS!!!!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 02, 2021, 05:07:33 PM

Whether you like(d) his books or not, you HAVE to respect a guy who can write one of the top-selling children's books of all time by using only 50 different words.
THAT is genius.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 02, 2021, 05:13:51 PM

Making legislative service like jury duty is absolutely not the way to reduce the influence of Big Lobby. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 02, 2021, 06:00:32 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 02, 2021, 05:07:33 PM

Whether you like(d) his books or not, you HAVE to respect a guy who can write one of the top-selling children's books of all time by using only 50 different words.
THAT is genius.

Yeah, like any kid is going to learn vocabulary reading that! :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 02, 2021, 06:47:11 PM

So, why was Dr. Seuss canceled?

Pretty f##kn' unreal time we live in, when a dead guy who has been dead for 30 years gets "canceled". I have no hope for humanity. We don't deserve to live.

I just saw Tenet and that movie was confusing but awesome. Won't give away any spoilers but I kinda wish the Russian bad guy won. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 02, 2021, 06:54:46 PM

Dr. Seuss canceled for racist & insensitive images was the headline

sorry, I didn't read the article

some folks can find hatred in just about anything if they try hard enough

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 02, 2021, 08:07:05 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 02, 2021, 06:54:46 PM

Dr. Seuss canceled for racist & insensitive images was the headline

sorry, I didn't read the article

some folks can find hatred in just about anything if they try hard enough

Anybody thats been to Whoville knows just how racist they are

and the cat in the hat is a known organizer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 02, 2021, 08:12:57 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 02, 2021, 04:02:45 PM

We can all sleep better at night knowing Dr Seuss has been cancelled

Thank You President Biden

Whats next?  Grimm's Fairy Tales?

Reinstate it tomorrow he won't remember

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 02, 2021, 08:16:37 PM

this is the kind of stuff that SNL could be writing skits about but they wont touch it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 02, 2021, 08:48:08 PM

I can't find my tv remote and I blame Joe Biden. Luckily I did find my wine bottle so credit to Joe Biden for that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 02, 2021, 09:14:42 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 02, 2021, 08:48:08 PM

I can't find my tv remote and I blame Joe Biden. Luckily I did find my wine bottle so credit to Joe Biden for that

man this place would go to defcon 1 if I lost the remote

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 02, 2021, 09:16:42 PM

I always keep a spare remote, rarely need it, but.................

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 02, 2021, 09:44:31 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 02, 2021, 09:16:42 PM

I always keep a spare remote, rarely need it, but.................

yep I do have a spare but still just knowing that lost remote is out there someplace would really bother me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 02, 2021, 09:56:53 PM

me too

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 02, 2021, 10:34:42 PM

You can download a remote control app on your phone for some systems......

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 02, 2021, 10:39:49 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 02, 2021, 08:16:37 PM

this is the kind of stuff that SNL could be writing skits about but they wont touch it

SNL has sucked donkey dk for at least 15 years. Maybe longer. Just absolute f##kn garbage. Horrible show with a horrible cast. Literally unwatchable. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 02, 2021, 10:40:52 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/MzXThEJ.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 02, 2021, 10:41:18 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 02, 2021, 10:34:42 PM

You can download a remote control app on your phone for some systems......

good reminder, I have that on my phone

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 02, 2021, 11:18:39 PM

The only problem with that guys is that I dont have a smart phone

I use a land line and have a cheap cell for emergencies 

yep Im an old codger that doesnt text to anyone

very peaceful at my place

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 03, 2021, 06:57:53 AM

In other news, our PPP loan was approved by the SBA yesterday.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 03, 2021, 07:07:29 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 03, 2021, 06:57:53 AM

In other news, our PPP loan was approved by the SBA yesterday.

Excellent!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 03, 2021, 08:56:36 AM

We had one last year too, and we kept all of our people. It's about them, not the company owners. Without them, there is no company.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 03, 2021, 09:14:28 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 03, 2021, 08:56:36 AM

We had one last year too, and we kept all of our people. It's about them, not the company owners. Without them, there is no company.

That’s exactly why I responded that way. 

Being in banking- I see those funds being used properly and for the good of small businesses and their employees and communities, but I also see much abuse and waste.  

I know which one fits your situation.  😊

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 03, 2021, 09:26:57 AM

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1366152963723563008?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 03, 2021, 10:18:28 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 03, 2021, 09:14:28 AM

That’s exactly why I responded that way.

Being in banking- I see those funds being used properly and for the good of small businesses and their employees and communities, but I also see much abuse and waste. 

I know which one fits your situation.  😊

So I shouldn't apply for a million bucks with my 1-man operation?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on March 03, 2021, 10:28:45 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2021, 01:29:44 PM

I passed 70,000 words on Book 3 and decided to end it there, so there will be a Book 4.

Now I need to proof read which I hate.

Do you self-publish?

If so, do you you a service like CreateSpace?

Have you made your books available for sale online?

Do you hire your own editor?

Have you ever queried literary agents?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 03, 2021, 10:34:09 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 03, 2021, 10:18:28 AM

So I shouldn't apply for a million bucks with my 1-man operation?

Unless you want to commit fraud, I'd say no.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 03, 2021, 10:41:42 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 03, 2021, 10:34:09 AM

Unless you want to commit fraud, I'd say no.

In that case just run for office then it will come naturally

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2021, 11:49:11 AM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on March 03, 2021, 10:28:45 AM

Do you self-publish?

If so, do you you a service like CreateSpace?

Have you made your books available for sale online?

Do you hire your own editor?

Have you ever queried literary agents?

Yes, though Amazon/Kindle.  
No editor, but me.
I have queried literary agents, I get the same canned response each time.  I also sent two books off to Pegasus, no response yet.

I'm going back through Book 2 now, I like it myself, still finding errors. It's historical fiction in Book One, civil war.  Book 3 is written but not checked.

 I'm going to epublish soon and get the paperback as well, on Amazon.  The first book is out, I had a bad typo on the back cover unfortunately.

Rebel in a Cause: Book One - Kindle edition by Dyer, John. Literature & Fiction Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com. (https://www.amazon.com/Rebel-Cause-Book-John-Dyer-ebook/dp/B08KTN5HJV/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1420FIHR530BD&dchild=1&keywords=rebel+in+a+cause+john+dyer&qid=1614790067&sprefix=rebel+in+a+cause%2Caps%2C632&sr=8-1)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 03, 2021, 02:38:43 PM

OK, so this is some funny shit. I don't care who ya are.

'We Don't Like Cuomo Now,' Says Every Late-Night Host In Perfect Robotic Unison | The Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/we-dont-like-cuomo-now-says-every-late-night-host-in-perfect-robotic-unison)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 03, 2021, 03:48:45 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 03, 2021, 02:38:43 PM

OK, so this is some funny shit. I don't care who ya are.

'We Don't Like Cuomo Now,' Says Every Late-Night Host In Perfect Robotic Unison | The Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/we-dont-like-cuomo-now-says-every-late-night-host-in-perfect-robotic-unison)

😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 03, 2021, 04:38:32 PM

Ignore THE SCIENCE. Also, ignore Florida.

Psaki dings Texas, Miss. reopenings: Country has ‘paid the price’ for leaders who ‘ignored the science' | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/psaki-texas-mississippi-reopenings)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 03, 2021, 05:12:54 PM

pot stirrer

I'm not sure that "Texas reopening" is any major news.  It's been open since mid May.

The only real difference is the removal of the statewide mask mandate.  Businesses including retailers may continue to require masks of their employees and customers as they see fit, according to their own set of safety protocols.

Since bars and restaurants are already open, and nobody's wearing a mask after they sit down, I don't anticipate any change in outcomes there.

The only real potential change in outcomes I can see is maybe at grocery stores and other retailers.  I anticipate many of them will remove their own mask requirements for customers, so that they don't put their employees in confrontational situations with customers who don't want to wear masks, and no longer feel compelled to without a state mandate in place. I don't know how large a % of people that will be, but I don't think it's really going to be enough to move the needle strongly.

tl;dr version-- Much ado about nothing, Texas is already open so can't "reopen" at this time, that happened in May.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 03, 2021, 05:24:50 PM

I'm just sick of all the BS with this thing. The Science has mostly been full of shit.

All the GOP Guvs are stupid, naturally. 

All the CCP Guvs are brilliant, especially The Luv Guv, and they are all begging for Federal bailouts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2021, 06:30:04 PM

Yeah, I wondered what really changed in Texas.  The news really latched on to it as a thing.

They do that, often.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 03, 2021, 07:17:10 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 03, 2021, 05:24:50 PM

I'm just sick of all the BS with this thing. The Science has mostly been full of shit.

All the GOP Guvs are stupid, naturally.

All the CCP Guvs are brilliant, especially The Luv Guv, and they are all begging for Federal bailouts.

Sheesh. 

"The Science" has only ever said that this was a novel virus for humans and that it would be a good idea to be cautious.  Anything more than that is someone running with it and bastardizing it.

2,500,000 people didn't just die this past year from nothing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 03, 2021, 07:23:38 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 03, 2021, 07:17:10 PM

Sheesh. 

"The Science" has only ever said that this was a novel virus for humans and that it would be a good idea to be cautious.  Anything more than that is someone running with it and bastardizing it.

2,500,000 people didn't just die this past year from nothing.

The science says its safe to send kids back to school but many red states have ignored this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 03, 2021, 07:42:45 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 03, 2021, 07:23:38 PM

The science says its safe to send kids backs to school but many red states have ignored this

So have many blue states. Much of CA is still not back at school. I'm lucky that my kids are. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 03, 2021, 10:14:35 PM

Yes, when you have 50 different states with different ideologies will yield an array of adhesion to "the science."
.
Another reason why it'd be cool if a scientifically literate leader of a country would dictate measures to combat a virus that knows no borders.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 03, 2021, 10:17:43 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 03, 2021, 10:14:35 PM

Yes, when you have 50 different states with different ideologies will yield an array of adhesion to "the science."
.
Another reason why it'd be cool if a scientifically literate leader of a country would dictate measures to combat a virus that knows no borders. 

dictate?

kind of a bummer when democracy gets in the way aint it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2021, 06:09:05 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 03, 2021, 10:14:35 PM

Yes, when you have 50 different states with different ideologies will yield an array of adhesion to "the science."
.
Another reason why it'd be cool if a scientifically literate leader of a country would dictate measures to combat a virus that knows no borders. 

To the Republic, for which it stands.

At this point I'd settle for a literal leader, as opposed to a puppet.

White House cuts virtual event feed after Biden says he's 'happy to take questions' from House Democrats | Fox News
 (https://www.foxnews.com/media/white-house-cuts-event-feed-biden-happy-take-questions)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2021, 07:08:55 AM

What's the holdup here?

POLITICO on Twitter: "The CDC will not be releasing its guidance for vaccinated Americans on Thursday as originally planned https://t.co/ZjXd9KjEYG" / Twitter (https://twitter.com/politico/status/1367283169595174916)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2021, 07:46:52 AM

I like how folks throw around "heed the science" as if somehow "science" has all the right answers all the time.  I'm pretty sure virologists and public health experts out there disagree about how we should handle COVID.  There is no magical single voice called "science" in much of anything.

Dissension is a critical aspect of "science".  You heed the best advice you can find appropriate for your state or local situation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2021, 07:56:01 AM

Thinking for one's self? What a concept.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2021, 08:18:08 AM

A governor should "heed" expert opinions about his state's situation.  There is no one size for all obviously.

I'm not sure much really changed in Texas anyway.  I'd bet those small somewhat isolated towns in west Texas did their own thing the whole time.

If the vaccine provides some resistance to the new variants, I think we'd be "OK" here and not have another wave.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 04, 2021, 08:43:35 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/Ojyw247.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2021, 08:47:49 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2021, 07:08:55 AM

What's the holdup here?

POLITICO on Twitter: "The CDC will not be releasing its guidance for vaccinated Americans on Thursday as originally planned https://t.co/ZjXd9KjEYG" / Twitter (https://twitter.com/politico/status/1367283169595174916)

vaccinated Americans need guidance???

what type of guidance

Cincy says there were almost too many folks at the vaccination site guiding americans from place to place

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2021, 08:59:36 AM

Officials: Super Bowl LV in Tampa was not a super spreader event | wtsp.com (https://www.wtsp.com/article/sports/nfl/superbowl/super-bowl-lv-not-covid-super-spreader-event/67-5f19f7fb-2e6a-42af-9e5f-9ab7359e938f)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2021, 09:04:27 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 04, 2021, 08:47:49 AM

Cincy says there were almost too many folks at the vaccination site guiding americans from place to place

There were too many in my view.  I don't need a group of four people pointing the way when there are signs galore.  It's useful to have someone telling you where to park and which level to walk to, fine, and maybe a couple more at odd points, but not groups of four times about six.

The process was efficient, just over  staffed.

The wife went to the Board of Health on back and traffic control there was ridiculous and pointless.  They made every car stop and tell someone 2 or 3 times why they were there, so traffic was backed up.  There was ample parking.  Maybe you ask once and point them to the lot, fine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2021, 09:21:14 AM

Cincy,

What type of guidance would be useful to you and your wife now that you are vaccinated?

things like: should I still wear a mask?  Should I still wash my hands?  should I check for certain symptoms or reactions from the vaccine?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 04, 2021, 09:28:37 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 04, 2021, 07:46:52 AM

I like how folks throw around "heed the science" as if somehow "science" has all the right answers all the time.  I'm pretty sure virologists and public health experts out there disagree about how we should handle COVID.  There is no magical single voice called "science" in much of anything.

Dissension is a critical aspect of "science".  You heed the best advice you can find appropriate for your state or local situation.

Exactly.
When so much is unknown, it's best to be cautious.  But you can't that to the people who shrug at the uncertainty and just go on about their lives as usual.  

Back in the olden times, those were the ones who'd test out the rope bridge first.  I think it's called earning a Darwin Award.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2021, 09:35:03 AM

the Iowa Governor removed all restrictions, including masks, a week or two ago.  a week or so before Texas

was at the bar last night for wings, maybe 50 -60 folks cycled thru while I was there from 5:30-10:00pm

5 or 6 wore masks coming in the front door

I'm curious as to what the grocery store will look like.

I'd didn't wear a mask at the bar, but I'm planning to wear one at the grocery

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 04, 2021, 09:40:27 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 04, 2021, 08:18:08 AM

A governor should "heed" expert opinions about his state's situation.  There is no one size for all obviously.

I'm not sure much really changed in Texas anyway.  I'd bet those small somewhat isolated towns in west Texas did their own thing the whole time.

If the vaccine provides some resistance to the new variants, I think we'd be "OK" here and not have another wave. 

I think thats what utee and I have been telling you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2021, 09:45:22 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 04, 2021, 09:21:14 AM

Cincy,

What type of guidance would be useful to you and your wife now that you are vaccinated?

things like: should I still wear a mask?  Should I still wash my hands?  should I check for certain symptoms or reactions from the vaccine?

This is what the CDC was set to announce, and I suspect the bosses did not like the content.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2021, 10:48:32 AM

I wonder what "the science" said? 

Because all "the science" can do is give you information that is useful for making decisions--"the science" doesn't make decisions for you. 

Lockdowns are a political/economic/social decision. It's a risk-reward decision. Locking down has severe political/economic/social consequences. Dead bodies piling up en masse has different severe political/economic/social consequences. "The science" doesn't tell you which consequences are worse, and for whom. 

I supported the initial lockdown for two reasons. First and foremost, it was because "the science" didn't have enough answers, but this thing looked bad enough that the precautionary principle warranted a strong response IMHO. Second, I think the initial lockdown was very useful as a mental "reset" to make the country take this thing seriously... 

I supported [and still support] mask mandates... They're minimally intrusive and appear [according to "the science"] to be quite effective at mitigating spread. I wouldn't relax them until we've gone a few more months and a much higher proportion of the population has been vaccinated. By May or so, I expect that just about anyone who wants the vaccine has probably gotten it, and if people choose not to get the vaccine and then choose not to wear a mask... Well ya get what ya get. 

And I would have REALLY liked to see much more consistent messaging to the public about what contributes the MOST to spread--gatherings with members outside your household un-masked. For humanity we cannot isolate forever, but the messaging should have highlighted that the frequency and the number of participants of those gatherings being critically important to the potential spread and damage they cause. 

"The science" says a return to school for kids is low-risk. Thus when comparing it to the social and developmental cost of keeping kids isolated, the limited efficacy of distance learning in relation to in-person learning, and the economic cost for working parents who are impacted by their kids being home during school hours, the balance should have supported a return to school. 

I didn't support the returns to lockdown, however, because I feel like they locked down low-risk activity (economic interactions where both parties are masked, outdoor dining, etc) without having any control over the high-risk activity (gatherings with members outside your household sans-mask). Listening to "the science" should have told us that we should focus on messaging about the high-risk activity and not bear the economic cost of locking down the low-risk activity. 

Does that mean I'm not listening to "the science"? Because I think on a number of these topics, OAM disagrees with me and yet he claims the mantle of listening to "the science". 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2021, 11:08:46 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2021, 09:45:22 AM

This is what the CDC was set to announce, and I suspect the bosses did not like the content.

but, the bosses just hand picked this person to head the CDC and send the "correct" message

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2021, 11:12:30 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2021, 10:48:32 AM

And I would have REALLY liked to see much more consistent messaging to the public about what contributes the MOST to spread--gatherings with members outside your household un-masked. For humanity we cannot isolate forever, but the messaging should have highlighted that the frequency and the number of participants of those gatherings being critically important to the potential spread and damage they cause.

I agree 100%

unfortunately, we are not getting this from the past administration or the current administration.  I also have not heard this message from Governors of any state.

and regarding "Science", I really would have liked to hear the message that wearing a mask alone will not make you "safe" from the virus.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2021, 11:22:57 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 04, 2021, 11:08:46 AM

but, the bosses just hand picked this person to head the CDC and send the "correct" message

We don't know who the men and women behind the curtain are. This is becoming evident.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 04, 2021, 11:25:45 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2021, 10:48:32 AM

I wonder what "the science" said?

Because all "the science" can do is give you information that is useful for making decisions--"the science" doesn't make decisions for you.

Lockdowns are a political/economic/social decision. It's a risk-reward decision. Locking down has severe political/economic/social consequences. Dead bodies piling up en masse has different severe political/economic/social consequences. "The science" doesn't tell you which consequences are worse, and for whom.

I supported the initial lockdown for two reasons. First and foremost, it was because "the science" didn't have enough answers, but this thing looked bad enough that the precautionary principle warranted a strong response IMHO. Second, I think the initial lockdown was very useful as a mental "reset" to make the country take this thing seriously...

I supported [and still support] mask mandates... They're minimally intrusive and appear [according to "the science"] to be quite effective at mitigating spread. I wouldn't relax them until we've gone a few more months and a much higher proportion of the population has been vaccinated. By May or so, I expect that just about anyone who wants the vaccine has probably gotten it, and if people choose not to get the vaccine and then choose not to wear a mask... Well ya get what ya get.

And I would have REALLY liked to see much more consistent messaging to the public about what contributes the MOST to spread--gatherings with members outside your household un-masked. For humanity we cannot isolate forever, but the messaging should have highlighted that the frequency and the number of participants of those gatherings being critically important to the potential spread and damage they cause.

"The science" says a return to school for kids is low-risk. Thus when comparing it to the social and developmental cost of keeping kids isolated, the limited efficacy of distance learning in relation to in-person learning, and the economic cost for working parents who are impacted by their kids being home during school hours, the balance should have supported a return to school.

I didn't support the returns to lockdown, however, because I feel like they locked down low-risk activity (economic interactions where both parties are masked, outdoor dining, etc) without having any control over the high-risk activity (gatherings with members outside your household sans-mask). Listening to "the science" should have told us that we should focus on messaging about the high-risk activity and not bear the economic cost of locking down the low-risk activity.

Does that mean I'm not listening to "the science"? Because I think on a number of these topics, OAM disagrees with me and yet he claims the mantle of listening to "the science".

Well said.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 04, 2021, 11:27:01 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2021, 11:22:57 AM

We don't know who the men and women behind the curtain are. This is becoming evident.

Yes- it is now obvious. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2021, 11:29:33 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2021, 11:22:57 AM

We don't know who the men and women behind the curtain are. This is becoming evident.

so, possibly a power struggle going on?  They don't even know who is in charge yet?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2021, 11:30:48 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 04, 2021, 11:27:01 AM

Yes- it is now obvious.

it was obvious to me a many others long before Sleepy Joe was elected, that he wouldn't be making ANY decisions

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2021, 11:31:32 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 04, 2021, 11:29:33 AM

so, possibly a power struggle going on?  They don't even know who is in charge yet?

They key is who are they?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2021, 11:35:36 AM

we will probably never know for sure

and I'd guess that "they" are and will be ever changing

unless a true powerful leader or two gain control of the Dem party

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 04, 2021, 11:41:06 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/PviwgXx.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 04, 2021, 11:47:01 AM

I have a hard time thinking the CDC isn't going to tell you to wash your hands.  I think the complicated question is how much should you change your behavior after getting vaccinated. It's a bit of a complicated question, because with all the talk of herd immunity, we are now in a realistic position to approach herd immunity. So we know vaccinated people have a lower chance to get and spread the disease, but it isn't a zero chance, so the question is how long we should tolerate restrictions.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2021, 11:50:23 AM

You guys know what you sound like sometimes, right?

(https://i.imgur.com/n73GwY1.jpg)

:57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 04, 2021, 11:59:16 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2021, 11:50:23 AM

You guys know what you sound like sometimes, right?

(https://i.imgur.com/n73GwY1.jpg)

:57:

Is that the Dem who came up with the latest nut cake conspiracy theory that the CPAC convention stage was a Nazi Symbol?

Or is that the woke bro who is pressuring Jeep to change the name of the Cherokee ?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 04, 2021, 12:00:35 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 04, 2021, 11:59:16 AM

Is that the Dem who came up with the latest nut cake conspiracy theory that the CPAC convention stage was a Nazi Symbol?

Or is that the woke bro who is pressuring Jeep to change the name of the Cherokee ?

I think it's the guy who was wheeling around a giant Golden Trump

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 04, 2021, 12:04:17 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 04, 2021, 12:00:35 PM

I think it's the guy who was wheeling around a giant Golden Trump

He is still living in your heads, rent free. 😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 04, 2021, 12:05:22 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 04, 2021, 12:04:17 PM

He is still living in your heads, rent free. 😂😂

LOL buddy it ain't my head he's living in.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 04, 2021, 12:28:08 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 04, 2021, 11:41:06 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/PviwgXx.jpg)

Our nation's discourse is never not strange. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2021, 12:29:49 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 04, 2021, 12:28:08 PM

Our nation's discourse is never not strange.

Which is a good thing. It is never "strange" in China, but it's not a good thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2021, 12:33:45 PM

The flu season was a record low event.  What "we" have done has blasted flu, which suggests to me continued hand washing and some distancing would be a positive in flu season.  And it would work if another zoonose shows up.

The next one could be worse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 04, 2021, 12:45:52 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 04, 2021, 12:28:08 PM

Our nation's discourse is never not strange.

Biden Cancels Coronavirus

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 04, 2021, 12:55:48 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2021, 12:29:49 PM

Which is a good thing. It is never "strange" in China, but it's not a good thing.

Ehh, in the quoted case, I’d describe it as not good. Not in the sense that it shouldn’t be permitted, but in the sense it’s a sort of confused mirthful pointlessness. 

But I suppose I let a bunch of young adults who play sports in a place I’ve not lived in 10 years impact my mood and spur me to argue with strangers online, so I’m not above such things. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 04, 2021, 12:57:53 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 04, 2021, 12:45:52 PM

Biden Cancels Coronavirus

Canceling is bad, but sometimes good, but also sometimes bad when it seems good. 

It is a deeply effective branding of a particular sort of grievance, I’ll give it that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 04, 2021, 01:02:43 PM

so they cancelled congress today out of fear of an invasion from who knows

we have over 3,000 national guard troops behind a razor wire fence plus hundreds of Capital police

with sub machine guns at the ready

so whats the real reason for all this crap 

I think its a continued scare tactic to justify all the anti Trump agenda

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2021, 01:06:39 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 04, 2021, 01:02:43 PM

I think its a continued scare tactic to justify all the anti Trump agenda

you probably shouldn't think so much

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 04, 2021, 01:37:41 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 04, 2021, 01:06:39 PM

you probably shouldn't think so much

as Homer says every time I learn something new something old gets pushed out

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 04, 2021, 01:42:43 PM

Biden has not had a press conference in his first 40 plus days as our President

This is the first time this has ever happened

actually Im fine with this as it would be sheer agony watching him try to answer questions

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 04, 2021, 01:48:28 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 04, 2021, 01:02:43 PM

so they cancelled congress today out of fear of an invasion from who knows

You know.  I know.  We all know.  Some of us just can't admit it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 04, 2021, 01:55:04 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 04, 2021, 01:48:28 PM

You know.  I know.  We all know.  Some of us just can't admit it.

please tell us who

who is going to do this

I dont think antifa is strong enough plus they are know cowards

so spill it tell us all knowing one

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2021, 01:56:19 PM

Supposedly, it was this "Three Percenters" group, somewhat affiliated with Qanon.  I don't think they showed up.

I would expect "them" to over react to Internet chatter now.  I expect they will come up with this possible threat a few more time because it's clear they cried wolf too often, after having not reacted appropriately before Jan. 6.

Barn door shutting after horse has bolted.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2021, 01:58:12 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 04, 2021, 01:56:19 PM

Supposedly, it was this "Three Percenters" group, somewhat affiliated with Qanon.  I don't think they showed up.

I would expect "them" to over react to Internet chatter now.  I expect they will come up with this possible threat a few more time because it's clear they cried wolf too often, after having not reacted appropriately before Jan. 6.

Barn door shutting after horse has bolted.

Just an excuse to keep the Capitol militarized.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2021, 02:01:43 PM

I suspect one could find sufficient Internet chatter to presume a "possible risk" just about daily.  I think they are just over reacting.  

And some may think it further tarnishes the legacy of Jan. 6.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 04, 2021, 02:04:16 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2021, 01:58:12 PM

Just an excuse to keep the Capitol militarized.

yep

if you spread false info enough pretty soon it become fact

and the message here is that Trump supporters are dangerous and need to be dealt with

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2021, 02:08:10 PM

just don't piss off the Reddit users

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 04, 2021, 02:16:40 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 04, 2021, 01:48:28 PM

You know.  I know.  We all know.  Some of us just can't admit it.

Well nearly all of the violence and destruction this past year has been BLM/Antifa.   Really going back 4 years. 

but I don’t think they would take precautions for them, since they have either ignored their planned mayhem or openly encouraged it- what with bail money for those arrested etc.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 04, 2021, 02:19:08 PM

Reddit is such a cesspool.   Gross.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 04, 2021, 02:19:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 04, 2021, 02:01:43 PM

I suspect one could find sufficient Internet chatter to presume a "possible risk" just about daily.  I think they are just over reacting. 

And some may think it further tarnishes the legacy of Jan. 6.

How do you mean that second part? Tarnishing the legacy, I mean?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 04, 2021, 02:20:57 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 04, 2021, 02:19:08 PM

Reddit is such a cesspool.  Gross.

It’s a weird place because it’s just so big. Like, their CFB film and CFB stuff is great. But it has some crazy dark corners. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 04, 2021, 02:23:24 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 04, 2021, 02:20:57 PM

It’s a weird place because it’s just so big. Like, their CFB film and CFB stuff is great. But it has some crazy dark corners.

Good Lord, no.  Their CFB is the worst of all.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 04, 2021, 02:32:58 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 04, 2021, 02:23:24 PM

Good Lord, no.  Their CFB is the worst of all. 

(I admit, I don’t spend time there. It might well be the Twitter account that scrapes it only brings me the good stuff)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 04, 2021, 02:34:18 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 04, 2021, 02:19:08 PM

Reddit is such a cesspool.  Gross.

Then what's HB and longhorn?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 04, 2021, 02:41:43 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 04, 2021, 02:34:18 PM

Then what's HB and longhorn?

classy 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 04, 2021, 02:48:54 PM

It's more classy to pretend buffalo head Bob isn't on your side?  I'm not saying you're on his, but you don't get to play stupid when wondering who's behind the failed coup attempt(s).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 04, 2021, 02:54:13 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 04, 2021, 02:34:18 PM

Then what's HB and longhorn?

Christ. Always looking to get into it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2021, 03:00:54 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 04, 2021, 02:48:54 PM

It's more classy to pretend buffalo head Bob isn't on your side?  I'm not saying you're on his, but you don't get to play stupid when wondering who's behind the failed coup attempt(s).

The far right and far left don't represent ANYONE on this board. So, maybe enough with that talk.

And if that was a coup attempt.. well, they suck at it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 04, 2021, 03:01:31 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 04, 2021, 02:48:54 PM

It's more classy to pretend buffalo head Bob isn't on your side?  I'm not saying you're on his, but you don't get to play stupid when wondering who's behind the failed coup attempt(s).

😂😂😂😂.   The boogeyman. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2021, 03:06:17 PM

At the Capitol, a March 4 threat by Trump QAnon supporters proved a mirage - The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/03/04/capitol-threat-qanon-march-4/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2021, 03:07:23 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2021, 03:00:54 PM

And if that was a coup attempt.. well, they suck at it.

Donald, incensed by the expulsion of his presidency, says: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture."

Animal House 'Futile and Stupid Gesture' - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h4DZeBleLs)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2021, 03:09:12 PM

I would have rather had a well thought out coup attempt and run all of the idiots out of the capital and into a real swamp

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2021, 03:12:19 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 04, 2021, 03:09:12 PM

I would have rather had a well thought out coup attempt and run all of the idiots out of the capital and into a real swamp

There's plenty of real swamps around here.

But they would have to come in, wearing seatbelts, on old nasty busses that plunge directly into the swamp.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 04, 2021, 03:29:01 PM

I found Buffalo Bob and his asst Clarabell

who knew they would one day take over

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNacSC-RpGA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 04, 2021, 03:33:38 PM

I found another far right group led by this guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Whu__edQ-M

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 05, 2021, 07:43:17 AM

Fredo. Poor Fredo.

(https://i.imgur.com/QXy1PdP.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 05, 2021, 07:45:03 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 05, 2021, 07:43:17 AM

Fredo. Poor Fredo.

(https://i.imgur.com/QXy1PdP.png)

😂😂👍👍

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 05, 2021, 07:52:58 AM

Why does the guy call him Fredo.It appears every time that Cuomo opens his mouth he weakens the nation

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2021, 09:08:04 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2021, 11:50:23 AM

You guys know what you sound like sometimes, right?

(https://i.imgur.com/n73GwY1.jpg)

:57:

CARRRROLLLLLLLLLLL. CARRRROLLLLLLLLL.

THERE IS NO PEPE SILVIA! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2021, 09:11:20 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 05, 2021, 07:43:17 AM

Fredo. Poor Fredo.

(https://i.imgur.com/QXy1PdP.png)

LMAO.


There isn't a bigger pair of douchebags on this planet than the Cuomo Bros.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 09:16:53 AM

I find, usually, the "news of the day" is, well, not that important.  Whatever it was a year ago on this date wasn't important often as not, with obvious exceptions.

The media have to sell something of course.  And they breathlessly do that.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2021, 09:26:14 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 05, 2021, 09:11:20 AM

LMAO.


There isn't a bigger pair of douchebags on this planet than the Cuomo Bros.

Mitch McConnell and anyone picked at random.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 05, 2021, 09:32:57 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2021, 03:06:17 PM

At the Capitol, a March 4 threat by Trump QAnon supporters proved a mirage - The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/03/04/capitol-threat-qanon-march-4/)

Good. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 05, 2021, 09:33:26 AM

Nah. Mitch is an idiot, but he hasn't assaulted or killed anyone. Try again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 05, 2021, 09:33:46 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 09:16:53 AM

I find, usually, the "news of the day" is, well, not that important.  Whatever it was a year ago on this date wasn't important often as not, with obvious exceptions.

The media have to sell something of course.  And they breathlessly do that. 

People want to buy, and someone will sell. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2021, 09:34:02 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2021, 09:26:14 AM

Mitch McConnell and anyone picked at random.

I'd say he's more a vile evil piece of shit than a douchebag.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 05, 2021, 09:34:20 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 05, 2021, 09:33:26 AM

Nah. Mitch is an idiot, but he hasn't assaulted or killed anyone. Try again.

Oooooh, I'd disagree there. Respectfully, of course. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 09:40:57 AM

I can't name anyone in Congress I "like".  I could almost say that about politicians generally.

Many of these folks wouldn't be considered good workers in a civilian job.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 05, 2021, 09:49:33 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 09:40:57 AM

I can't name anyone in Congress I "like".  I could almost say that about politicians generally.

Many of these folks wouldn't be considered good workers in a civilian job.

I've met and liked several US Reps and two US Senators over time that I liked. But then they stay too long, fall in line, and I no longer like them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on March 05, 2021, 10:19:01 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 04, 2021, 02:48:54 PM

It's more classy to pretend buffalo head Bob isn't on your side?  I'm not saying you're on his, but you don't get to play stupid when wondering who's behind the failed coup attempt(s).

First coup attempt in the history of the world where they tried without any weapons. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 10:37:49 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on March 05, 2021, 10:19:01 AM

First coup attempt in the history of the world where they tried without any weapons.

They had fire extinguishers, oh wait,  Bear spray.  And signs.

It seemed more like a mob to me, something without a consistent purpose or goal except to be there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 10:44:55 AM

the truth

wasn't much of anything but a protest rally

mostly peaceful

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 10:51:24 AM

They got pretty rowdy, some of them anyway.  I would say many were peaceful while breaking the law, a fair number were breaking things to enter.

My GUESS is 90% were following along "because everyone else was doing it" and had no clear vision of why.

I certainly don't mean to defend any of them, it was wrong.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 05, 2021, 10:53:56 AM

An unruly, angry, and sometimes violent mob.

I don't approve of it, I wish it hadn't happened, and it was certainly whipped up by commentary by the former president.  

But it wasn't a coup attempt and labeling it as such is silly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 10:56:50 AM

yup, it was obviously breaking the law and they should all go to jail for a while, but.....

it wasn't a coup attempt and I really don't think Nancy's life was in danger

I could be wrong about that.  Now she and her other fellow congress folks should have been scared.  Scared of being tarred and feathered and run out of Washington.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2021, 11:00:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 10:37:49 AM

They had fire extinguishers, oh wait,  Bear spray.  And signs.

It seemed more like a mob to me, something without a consistent purpose or goal except to be there.

Quote from: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 10:44:55 AM

the truth

wasn't much of anything but a protest rally

mostly peaceful

As we've talked about in the climate thread, there's a big difference between having a goal, and having a realistic plan to achieve that goal.

I think the goal was to intimidate Congress and Mike Pence. The "plan" was a murky idea that somehow, if they just showed Pence they were, like, SUPER serious, he'd refuse to accept electors, Biden wouldn't get 270, and then there'd be enough chaos sending it to the House that Trump would get 4 more years. 

I don't think the "plan" was to occupy the capitol and declare themselves our new legislative body, or to "overthrow" the government. It was to intimidate the government into doing what they wanted. 

A protest rally could have occurred outside the capitol building. A legitimate "coup attempt" probably would have required weapons. CD is right--it was a poorly-organized mob. But there was a purpose--the purpose was to intimidate Congress and Mike Pence into somehow throwing out the results of the election and getting Trump another term.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 05, 2021, 11:03:00 AM

There is no mystery here.  The mob didn't like that Donald Trump wasn't re-elected president.  Donald Trump set up the mob in an attempt to disrupt the electoral process enough that there would be enough confusion to trigger a vote by state in the house as a way to overturn the will of the states and the people.  It was a brazen attempt to overturn the election, and he had a lot of support from Republicans to do it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 05, 2021, 11:06:20 AM

It was Russia!! We need an investigation. Or something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2021, 11:07:10 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on March 05, 2021, 10:19:01 AM

First coup attempt in the history of the world where they tried without any weapons.

Gotta love the media and their bullshit reporting on this when it happened.

Only for the FBI to admit now that nobody had arms. Kinda crazy how media tried to spin it as an "armed insurrection". First armed insurrection in the history of armed insurrections without arms. Funny.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2021, 11:09:25 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 10:44:55 AM

the truth

wasn't much of anything but a protest rally

mostly peaceful

this is the truth on the matter. ridiculous how this entire thing has been spun and how DC has been on lockdown and militarized. 

There were how many people at the protest rally? 100,000+ plus. How many of those people actually broke into the capitol building? A few hundred. 

Give me a f#kin break. This entire ordeal barely even rises to the level of being worth talking about. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 05, 2021, 11:09:57 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 05, 2021, 11:07:10 AM

Gotta love the media and their bullshit reporting on this when it happened.

Only for the FBI to admit now that nobody had arms. Kinda crazy how media tried to spin it as an "armed insurrection". First armed insurrection in the history of armed insurrections without arms. Funny.

It's the same everywhere.  The crown prince of Saudi Arabia had an American journalist sawed into pieces, but was given a pass so we wouldn't disrupt oil prices. In return, he had the people he ordered do the job executed. So all these rubes who showed up at Trump's beckon will get some sort of federal punishment, even though we all know they were there at the express direction of Trump.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2021, 11:13:34 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 05, 2021, 11:03:00 AM

There is no mystery here.  The mob didn't like that Donald Trump wasn't re-elected president.  Donald Trump set up the mob in an attempt to disrupt the electoral process enough that there would be enough confusion to trigger a vote by state in the house as a way to overturn the will of the states and the people.  It was a brazen attempt to overturn the election, and he had a lot of support from Republicans to do it.

Trump tweeted and said things about protesting. He never organized a coup attempt or encouraged people to break the law and storm into government buildings and break shit or commit acts of violence.

He tried to set up a protest movement. Last I checked, Americans have a constitutional right to peacefully and publicly protest. Absolutely nothing wrong with that whatsoever. 

There was over 100,000+ people in the streets protesting peacefully. A few hundred of them were lunatic fringe jackasses who stormed the capitol building. Without weapons by the way.

People need to stop trying to make it into something it is not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2021, 11:19:55 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 05, 2021, 11:09:57 AM

It's the same everywhere.  The crown prince of Saudi Arabia had an American journalist sawed into pieces, but was given a pass so we wouldn't disrupt oil prices. In return, he had the people he ordered do the job executed. So all these rubes who showed up at Trump's beckon will get some sort of federal punishment, even though we all know they were there at the express direction of Trump.

You are comparing apples to oranges. Donald Trump never ordered anyone to storm the capitol or break the law. He encouraged people to express their legal constitutional rights to protest. 99.99% of them did just that. A few hundreds rejects that should've been aborted went overboard. Quit acting like all 100,000+ people that were there did the same thing.

And get real- of course the US wasn't going to do a god damn thing about the Saudi's. It's not about oil prices at all. It's about protecting the petro-dollar and US defense contractors and arms dealers (aka military industrial complex) reliance on Saudi money to buy arms. Saudis buy hundreds of billions of dollars worth of arms from the US. Funny how virtually all of islamic terrorism and the extreme fundamentalist Wahhabism sect of Islam emanates from Saudi Arabia, yet the brain dead Biden is bombing the shit out of Syria right now and the US is still "fighting terrorism" with troops in Iraq & Afghanistan for 20 fkkn years.  Can't blame that senile old reject- every president before him is at fault for this garbage too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 05, 2021, 11:26:49 AM

You can wish it was something else.  But that's all it is...wishing. If I was a New York resident I might wish Andrew Cuomo was a decent person.  I could even create an alternate reality where he is a decent person.  But here we are.  You don't summon a protest, tell them lots of crazy, untrue things, tell them to fight like hell, and tell them you will go the capitol with them unless you are trying to stir it up. There's a pretty straight line between Trumps words and the riots, and there is a pretty easy reason to see why he wanted it to happen that way, and I think a lot of the other stuff is just people not wanting to live in that reality.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2021, 11:29:51 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 05, 2021, 11:26:49 AM

You can wish it was something else.  But that's all it is...wishing. If I was a New York resident I might wish Andrew Cuomo was a decent person.  I could even create an alternate reality where he is a decent person.  But here we are.  You don't summon a protest, tell them lots of crazy, untrue things, tell them to fight like hell, and tell them you will go the capitol with them unless you are trying to stir it up. There's a pretty straight line between Trumps words and the riots, and there is a pretty easy reason to see why he wanted it to happen that way, and I think a lot of the other stuff is just people not wanting to live in that reality.

Yawn. 

How many people actually stormed the capitol. FBI has arrested what, 200? It looks like max 500. MAYBE 1,000. Out of supposedly 100,000+. That is the reality.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 11:39:04 AM

I agree relatively a small percentage of those at the rally chose to enter the Capitol building.

I'm amazed the ME report on the officer who died isn't out yet, nor is any report about the shooting that occurred out.

I suspect highly the narrative pushed by each side on this is seriously false.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 05, 2021, 11:53:09 AM

I don't know that there are hard numbers but I've seen estimated about 30,000 people were at the rally, about 10K went to the Capitol, and about 800 entered the Capitol.  Why this matters is beyond me - the idea that this was just a couple rubes who went off the deep end is pretty silly. I think about 300 have been arrested, many of whom claim they did exactly what Trump told them to do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2021, 11:55:50 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 05, 2021, 11:13:34 AM

Trump tweeted and said things about protesting. He never organized a coup attempt or encouraged people to break the law and storm into government buildings and break shit or commit acts of violence.

He tried to set up a protest movement. Last I checked, Americans have a constitutional right to peacefully and publicly protest. Absolutely nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

I don't think Trump would meet the legal definition of "incitement" to the level where he could be successfully prosecuted for it. 

To act like he does not carry a huge moral responsibility for what happened is just denying the obvious. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 05, 2021, 12:05:45 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2021, 11:55:50 AM

I don't think Trump would meet the legal definition of "incitement" to the level where he could be successfully prosecuted for it.

To act like he does not carry a huge moral responsibility for what happened is just denying the obvious.

No Trump does not carry any responsibility for 500 supporters going rouge 
He even stressed in his speech to peacefully protest

The left would love for Trump to just lie down and go away but thats not going to happen
Thats why they are pushing HR 1 so hard to rig the voting system so Trump cant win

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 12:09:59 PM

If there were 30,000 at the rally, and a thousand entered the Capitol, it's pretty clear it was a small percentage of those at the rally.  The other 29,000 apparently thought it was not a good idea, if these figures are correct (nearly).

Does it matter?  Somewhat in my view.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 05, 2021, 12:15:05 PM

If you tell 100 people to shoot someone, should you get a gold star if 99 don't shoot anyone?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2021, 12:19:43 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 05, 2021, 11:53:09 AM

I don't know that there are hard numbers but I've seen estimated about 30,000 people were at the rally, about 10K went to the Capitol, and about 800 entered the Capitol.  Why this matters is beyond me - the idea that this was just a couple rubes who went off the deep end is pretty silly. I think about 300 have been arrested, many of whom claim they did exactly what Trump told them to do.

Except, he didn't. There are these things out there called delusional idiot fkn retards. They often do extremely dumb shit on their own volition and often like to blame others for their dumbass behavior. 

The official arrested number is 250, just googled it. 

#1 lesson in life- retards will be retards. America unfortunately has a shitload of these people. Chris Rock used to make a joke that the people you see on Jerry Springer are your average Americans. I used to think it was funny. Now I just think it's true.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2021, 12:21:15 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 05, 2021, 12:15:05 PM

If you tell 100 people to shoot someone, should you get a gold star if 99 don't shoot anyone?

Not seeing where Donald Trump told anyone to shoot anyone or storm the Capitol and break laws. In fact, he never said anything like that once. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2021, 12:23:10 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2021, 11:55:50 AM

To act like he does not carry a huge moral responsibility for what happened is just denying the obvious.

Yeah, no.

If some fkn retard interperted what he was saying in their retarded lizard brain and went out and committed acts of violence and broke the law- well that's on that fkn dumbass. 

People need to take responsibility for THEIR OWN ACTIONS. No one does this anymore. It's always someone elses' fault. No one tell them no it's not dumbass- it's your own stupid fault.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 12:24:48 PM

The folks at the rally were motivated Trump supporters, virtually all of them other than media and security.  Apparently, MOST did not go to the Capitol.

I think that is a different storyline versus had MOST gone to the Capitol.  It's not really all that critical but it's worth noting.  MOST of them did not heed the call to go.  Some did, apparently single digit percentages.

As noted above, Trump might not have passed the legal threshold for incitement, but his actions make him responsible for it, in my view.

He and his folks were citing all sorts of nonsense about the voting.  That got people riled up, some more than others.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2021, 12:25:21 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 05, 2021, 11:29:51 AM

Yawn.

How many people actually stormed the capitol. FBI has arrested what, 200? It looks like max 500. MAYBE 1,000. Out of supposedly 100,000+. That is the reality.

Would you yawn if they reached where members of Congress were hiding?  If they hurt or injured one?  If they killed the VP?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2021, 12:26:52 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 05, 2021, 12:23:10 PM

Yeah, no.

If some fkn retard interperted what he was saying in their retarded lizard brain and went out and committed acts of violence and broke the law- well that's on that fkn dumbass.

People need to take responsibility for THEIR OWN ACTIONS. No one does this anymore. It's always someone elses' fault. No one tell them no it's not dumbass- it's your own stupid fault.

Thank you for not pretending to be anything other than what you are.  At least I've been right about you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2021, 12:27:43 PM

The funniest thing about this is that now a majority of republicans now know what it's like to be a normal, everyday Muslim.
It's not fun, is it?  Being linked to the crazies.  Seems kinda unfair, huh?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2021, 12:28:22 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2021, 12:25:21 PM

Would you yawn if they reached where members of Congress were hiding?  If they hurt or injured one?  If they killed the VP? 

Did any of this happen in the "armed insurrection". Oh wait, no.

Honestly, quite a few of them who sell out the American people on the regular all in order to line their own pockets should be tried in the court of law by a jury of their peers for treason against the American people and then executed by lethal injection- if found guilty of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2021, 12:30:51 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2021, 12:26:52 PM

Thank you for not pretending to be anything other than what you are.  At least I've been right about you.

Ummmm ok? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 12:31:58 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 05, 2021, 12:05:45 PM

No Trump does not carry any responsibility for 500 supporters going rouge
He even stressed in his speech to peacefully protest

The left would love for Trump to just lie down and go away but thats not going to happen
Thats why they are pushing HR 1 so hard to rig the voting system so Trump cant win

he did state this once.  Not sure he really "stressed" this point.

He actually chose his words somewhat carefully.  That to me is something.

I'd say Trump carries some responsibility, but not much.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 05, 2021, 12:33:38 PM

Which insurrection are we speaking of?

The One where antifa and BLM members charged the fence at the White House, let the church on fire, and seriously injured several federal agents, as the president had to be taken to the bunker. Because that one was clearly incited by leading Democrats including the mayor of Washington DC herself and openly applauded by mainstream media figures.    

Or are we speaking of the one in Portland where they actually took over public property in public land and several people were killed. Again openly incited by local Democrats as well as national Democrats and widely applauded by the media.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 12:36:27 PM

yup, groups of folks get very upset about something they think is unfair, they take to the streets to protest in numbers, a few wackos ruin it for everyone

color doesn't matter, black/white or red/blue

it's all the same

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 05, 2021, 12:37:01 PM

Or are we talking about the Cavanaugh hearings, the absolute travesty of a joke that they were, where all the liberal protesters busted into the hearings and were intimidating senators who were simply trying to move about the hallways?

Or maybe referring to the insurrection which captured and burned numerous police stations during the summer? Again openly encouraged by the Democrats and the mainstream media and those few who iwere caught we’re bailed out by Democrat lead bail funds that were publicly brag about

If you’re going to pretend what happened at the capital was actually a cool attempt, besides having no credibility in reality, at least don’t be the ultimate hypocrite and take responsibility for the other 20 or insurrections that took place with violence and death.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 05, 2021, 12:41:21 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2021, 12:25:21 PM

Would you yawn if they reached where members of Congress were hiding?  If they hurt or injured one?    

After many members dropped their stocks - again last February(2020) with insider info perhaps they need a good thumping.Look at the laws/rules they make and then skirt while holding us to them.Skirt sounds like something you should be issued - is that too political?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 05, 2021, 12:45:04 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2021, 12:27:43 PM

The funniest thing about this is that now a majority of republicans now know what it's like to be a normal, everyday Muslim.
It's not fun, is it?  Being linked to the crazies.  Seems kinda unfair, huh?

Such a creepy, inaccurate and racist thing to say. 

and wrong- it is not about Republicans. The majority have common sense and see this for exactly what it is.  We are still the majority.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 05, 2021, 12:48:27 PM

A big way that Trump (and by extension, the rest of the Republican Party) could deal with his responsibility would be to publicly state that A) he lost the election, and B) he lost fair and square, and it was not stolen.

He has yet to do either.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 05, 2021, 12:58:13 PM

Quote

Which insurrection are we speaking of?

There is only one. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 05, 2021, 12:59:43 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 05, 2021, 12:48:27 PM

A big way that Trump (and by extension, the rest of the Republican Party) could deal with his responsibility would be to publicly state that A) he lost the election, and B) he lost fair and square, and it was not stolen.

He has yet to do either.

well just as soon as Hillary does this then maybe we can talk

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 05, 2021, 01:01:05 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 05, 2021, 12:48:27 PM

A big way that Trump (and by extension, the rest of the Republican Party) could deal with his responsibility would be to publicly state that A) he lost the election, and B) he lost fair and square, and it was not stolen.

He has yet to do either.

I wouldn’t hold my breath.  Just like the few who beloved Biden would actually try to unite never should have held theirs.

When over 1000 local and state level laws were changed in the weeks leading up to the election, and ballot harvesting is legal so you can send unsolicited ballots out and pay third party company’s to collect them and in some cases help people fill them out, and then you eliminate or water down the signature verification process which validates those votes, and your MSM outlets are censoring and even fabricating related “ news”- you’re going to end up with widespread distrust. 

of course there is no “ evidence “.  Lol

Somewhere between 60 and 100, million voters in the United States say they don’t trust our electoral system. Well that is still the minority it’s an absolute shame that so many, from all parties, don’t trust it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 05, 2021, 01:01:22 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 05, 2021, 12:59:43 PM

well just as soon as Hillary does this then maybe we can talk

😂😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 01:09:40 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 05, 2021, 12:48:27 PM

A big way that Trump (and by extension, the rest of the Republican Party) could deal with his responsibility would be to publicly state that A) he lost the election, and B) he lost fair and square, and it was not stolen.

He has yet to do either.

Trump won't, ever, but other Republicans have of course.  

Apparently, this wasn't an ARMED insurrection.  It was awful, but they didn't go there with firearms.  I'm not trying to minimize what happened, I think it was bad, but the hyperbole on both sides gets, well, hyperbolic at times.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 01:20:55 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 05, 2021, 12:48:27 PM

A big way that Trump (and by extension, the rest of the Republican Party) could deal with his responsibility would be to publicly state that A) he lost the election, and B) he lost fair and square, and it was not stolen.

He has yet to do either.

I'd guess there are only a handful of people in the entire country that know the true answer to "B" with any certainty. 
If the democratic party or republican party has some real credible evidence that "B" is 100% true I think they'd be willing to share it.

I'm not sure anyone knows this for certain.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 01:29:10 PM

Wild day on Wall Street today.  Froth?

I thought Costco had a nice quarterly report and they went down as a result.  I may pick up some more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 05, 2021, 01:38:30 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 01:20:55 PM

I'd guess there are only a handful of people in the entire country that know the true answer to "B" with any certainty.
If the democratic party or republican party has some real credible evidence that "B" is 100% true I think they'd be willing to share it.

I'm not sure anyone knows this for certain.

The guy lost by millions of votes.  Oh wait, we are so supposed to ignore the people's vote and instead go with the electoral college, which he also lost.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 01:42:09 PM

Yes, presuming we adhere to the Constitution, the EC is what counts.  So, we are supposed to ignore the national popular vote, in legal terms.  It's the law and all that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 01:44:07 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 05, 2021, 01:38:30 PM

The guy lost by millions of votes.  Oh wait, we are so supposed to ignore the people's vote and instead go with the electoral college, which he also lost.

I'm specifically referring to "B"
yes, I know he lost the electoral vote.

please do your best to prove to me and others that the electoral vote wasn't stolen

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 05, 2021, 01:46:04 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 01:44:07 PM

please do your best to prove to me and others that the electoral vote wasn't stolen

I'm still waiting for Adam Schiff to show us all proof how the Trump campaign colluded with Russia. He says he has it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2021, 01:47:07 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 01:44:07 PM

I'm specifically referring to "B"
yes, I know he lost the electoral vote.

please do your best to prove to me and others that the electoral vote wasn't stolen

Yeah, that's not how this works.  You don't get to flip the burden of proof.  If you're claiming the election was erroneous, it's on you to prove it.  It's not on anyone else to prove you're wrong.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 01:47:18 PM

I'd like to see Hunter's laptop.  Someone has it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 01:51:16 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2021, 01:47:07 PM

Yeah, that's not how this works.  You don't get to flip the burden of proof.  If you're claiming the election was erroneous, it's on you to prove it.  It's not on anyone else to prove you're wrong.

that's great and I agree, but many would like to see the unruly extremist Trump supporters mellow out, come together with liberals and heal the divide in the country.

coming up with some credible evidence that the election was NOT stolen might help in that regard.

I'm not stating that the election was stolen or not stolen.

I'd just like to be able to form an opinion one way or another. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2021, 01:52:50 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 01:51:16 PM

that's great and I agree, but many would like to see the unruly extremist Trump supporters mellow out, come together with liberals and heal the divide in the country.

coming up with some credible evidence that the election was NOT stolen might help in that regard.

I'm not stating that the election was stolen or not stolen.

I'd just like to be able to form an opinion one way or another.

You're dangerously close to sounding like you believe an either/or situation is 50/50 here.  I hope that's not the case.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2021, 01:54:37 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 01:51:16 PM

I'd just like to be able to form an opinion one way or another.

There's a claim that the election was "stolen".  That claim lacks any convincing evidence and has been dismissed by dozens of judges, most of which are conservative.
If a claim lacks evidence, then there's no need to opine it's a true claim.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 02:04:11 PM

For my part, I check into as many claims as I could, particularly  here in Georgia.  I found either plausible alternative explanations, or often that the claims were factually wrong.  If the election was stolen somehow, in my view it was done by a remarkably large and covert group in several states.

I really think there has been an intent to "disinform" by making a number of claims about what happened that are demonstrably untrue.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 02:33:12 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2021, 01:54:37 PM

There's a claim that the election was "stolen".  That claim lacks any convincing evidence and has been dismissed by dozens of judges, most of which are conservative.
If a claim lacks evidence, then there's no need to opine it's a true claim.

perhaps I'm just not trustworthy, but this doesn't convince me there is no evidence or there's no wrong doing.  I've met a few judges I wouldn't trust with my beer money.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2021, 02:37:40 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 05, 2021, 12:05:45 PM

No Trump does not carry any responsibility for 500 supporters going rouge
He even stressed in his speech to peacefully protest

The left would love for Trump to just lie down and go away but thats not going to happen
Thats why they are pushing HR 1 so hard to rig the voting system so Trump cant win

Stressed? That's... A stretch.

He said "peace" once in his entire speech that day. He said peacefully 18 minutes into his hour-and-20-minute-long speech. He closed the speech, an hour later with this "fight like hell or you won't have a country any more" line.

Again, I'm not saying he crossed the legal line to incitement. But saying he "stressed" that they be peaceful is just not real. 

The people who entered the capitol are culpable for their actions--they are not puppets dancing on Trump's strings. But he's not without some blame as well. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 05, 2021, 02:41:10 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2021, 02:37:40 PM

Stressed? That's... A stretch.

He said "peace" once in his entire speech that day. He said peacefully 18 minutes into his hour-and-20-minute-long speech. He closed the speech, an hour later with this "fight like hell or you won't have a country any more" line.

Again, I'm not saying he crossed the legal line to incitement. But saying he "stressed" that they be peaceful is just not real.

The people who entered the capitol are culpable for their actions--they are not puppets dancing on Trump's strings. But he's not without some blame as well.

They're the rabble.  He was the rouser.   Pretty clear.

He's not blameless.

Nor was it any kind of "coup attempt." 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2021, 02:44:37 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 01:51:16 PM

that's great and I agree, but many would like to see the unruly extremist Trump supporters mellow out, come together with liberals and heal the divide in the country.

coming up with some credible evidence that the election was NOT stolen might help in that regard.

I'm not stating that the election was stolen or not stolen.

I'd just like to be able to form an opinion one way or another.

It's almost impossible to prove a negative. So how can we "prove" the election was not stolen, against claims offered with no evidence that it was? 

POTUS and his legal team spent weeks arguing in the court of public opinion that the election was subject to widespread fraud, widespread irregularities, and that it was stolen. Then they went into court and either had no evidence or argued procedural battles that didn't even allege fraud. 

So I'll prove the election wasn't stolen when you prove there's no Easter Bunny. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 05, 2021, 02:45:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 01:42:09 PM

Yes, presuming we adhere to the Constitution, the EC is what counts.  So, we are supposed to ignore the national popular vote, in legal terms.  It's the law and all that.

Most elections go to the person with the most votes, as opposed to running it through a very weird algorithm. In any event, claiming the election was stolen is doubly ridiculous given the only chance Trump had was literally counting some people's votes more than others.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 02:49:24 PM

I'm sayin it can't be proven either way

one side wants the other side to just believe the election was honest and true with no wrong doing

we all know this isn't going to happen.

I'd just like more assurance that the election was fair than what I've seen at this point.  Knowing full well that's not going to happen.

I'm just pointing out that the side that thinks there was wrong doing has little reason to change their mind.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 05, 2021, 02:51:40 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 05, 2021, 02:41:10 PM

They're the rabble.  He was the rouser.  Pretty clear.

He's not blameless.

Nor was it any kind of "coup attempt."

Seems pretty clear it was an attempt to get the results of the election thrown out via less than legal means. Whatever you want to call that is whatever it is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 02:52:06 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 05, 2021, 02:45:22 PM

Most elections go to the person with the most votes, as opposed to running it through a very weird algorithm. In any event, claiming the election was stolen is doubly ridiculous given the only chance Trump had was literally counting some people's votes more than others.

this is exactly what many folks thought about Biden's chances.

ya gotta admit Joe isn't the most charismatic politician in his own state
yet sleepy Joe got more votes than any US politician EVER in history
just seems a bit far fetched to some

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 02:54:48 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 05, 2021, 02:45:22 PM

Most elections go to the person with the most votes, as opposed to running it through a very weird algorithm. In any event, claiming the election was stolen is doubly ridiculous given the only chance Trump had was literally counting some people's votes more than others.

It's the law, so that's a pretty good reason to do it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 02:56:04 PM

Joe got more than 11 million votes in CA, a state never in doubt, so one presumes there was no wide spread shennigans there.

Obama got fewer than 8 million.

There are obvious reasons for the large increase in the popular vote that don't appear to be related to fraud.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2021, 03:14:49 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 02:49:24 PM

I'm sayin it can't be proven either way

one side wants the other side to just believe the election was honest and true with no wrong doing

we all know this isn't going to happen.

I'd just like more assurance that the election was fair than what I've seen at this point.  Knowing full well that's not going to happen.

I'm just pointing out that the side that thinks there was wrong doing has little reason to change their mind.

And the only reason they believe it in the first place is that Trump spent months telling them it happened, without actual evidence or proof. 

It was a propaganda campaign, and it worked. 

Let me spin it back at you. What evidence would they accept to change their mind? What would it actually take?

Quote from: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 02:52:06 PM

this is exactly what many folks thought about Biden's chances.

ya gotta admit Joe isn't the most charismatic politician in his own state
yet sleepy Joe got more votes than any US politician EVER in history
just seems a bit far fetched to some

A lot of people that didn't vote for Hillary in 2016--in fact some who voted for Trump in 2016--swapped and voted Biden in 2020. 

That vote wasn't pro-Biden. It was anti-Trump. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 05, 2021, 03:18:21 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2021, 02:44:37 PM

So I'll prove the election wasn't stolen when you prove there's no Easter Bunny.

C'mon there's no Easter Bunny but yetis,little green men and honest politicians are a different story

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 03:25:45 PM

3 Questions: John Leonard on the future of autonomous vehicles | MIT News | Massachusetts Institute of Technology (https://news.mit.edu/2020/mit-3-questions-john-leonard-future-of-autonomous-vehicles-0804)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 03:26:14 PM

i THINK this will be the biggest change to impact most of us in our lifetimes.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 03:35:10 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2021, 03:14:49 PM

And the only reason they believe it in the first place is that Trump spent months telling them it happened, without actual evidence or proof.

It was a propaganda campaign, and it worked.

Let me spin it back at you. What evidence would they accept to change their mind? What would it actually take?
A lot of people that didn't vote for Hillary in 2016--in fact some who voted for Trump in 2016--swapped and voted Biden in 2020.

That vote wasn't pro-Biden. It was anti-Trump.

nothing would change many of their minds.  It wouldn't take a bunch of evidence to change my mind or many of the more reasonable folks

I agree that most of Biden's votes were anti-Trump

just as many of Trump's votes 4 years ago were anti-Hillary

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 03:40:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 03:26:14 PM

i THINK this will be the biggest change to impact most of us in our lifetimes. 

reading this seems to imply that it very well may be after some of our lifetimes

2 or 3 decades. maybe more

I hope to live 20 more years, but....... that's as much unknow as Level 4 autonomous vehicle systems

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 04:03:53 PM

My GUESS is in 15 years, we'll have a lot of Level 4 EVs available for Lyft/Uber to employ, and many of us will forgo private car ownership, or go from two to one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 04:11:00 PM

I'd guess, in cities like Atlanta, you will be correct

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 05, 2021, 04:14:39 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 05, 2021, 02:51:40 PM

Seems pretty clear it was an attempt to get the results of the election thrown out via less than legal means. Whatever you want to call that is whatever it is.

No it doesn't. 

I mean, it obviously seems that way to people who really want to believe that.  But I don't have any agenda to prove so I have no reason to really want to believe it.

So what I see is an unarmed, unruly mob, that endangered their own lives as much or more than anyone else's, and ended up accomplishing nothing-- because they never had any real goal to accomplish anything.

If you think buffalo bob and company had some concrete goal in mind, you're giving them a lot more credit than they deserve. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 04:18:00 PM

My vision is for the folks going to work, they will reserve their car that showed up on time each day and they take their 30 minute commute working on email etc.  When work is over, they schedule another pickup and ride home.  No need for a "work car".

The cars run themselves, recharge in parking garages no longer needed, and then turn out for service the next morning.  And, they could operate within feet of each other and send telemetry to each other about conditions up ahead, and communicate with smart signals etc.  

Retirees could call one to go shopping or to play golf or whatever, no parking to worry about.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 04:20:32 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 05, 2021, 04:14:39 PM

So what I see is an unarmed, unruly mob, that endangered their own lives as much or more than anyone else's, and ended up accomplishing nothing-- because they never had any real goal to accomplish anything.

If you think buffalo bob and company had some concrete goal in mind, you're giving them a lot more credit than they deserve. 

Mobs often are this way, just folks doing what they see everyone else doing, without much conceived intent.  Reminds me of streaking back in the day, running around nekkid.  Why?  Because everyone else was doing it.

Let's all march over to the Capitol and, well, we'll show'em, yeah.  Unarmed.

Dumb idea, lowest common denominator.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 05, 2021, 04:22:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 04:20:32 PM

Mobs often are this way, just folks doing what they see everyone else doing, without much conceived intent.  Reminds me of streaking back in the day, running around nekkid.  Why?  Because everyone else was doing it.

Let's all march over to the Capitol and, well, we'll show'em, yeah.  Unarmed.

Dumb idea, lowest common denominator.

You actually went streaking?  I thought that was just a thing in the movies! :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 04:28:40 PM

my brother went streaking, once.  at church camp

my mother was not amused 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 05, 2021, 04:34:31 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 05, 2021, 04:14:39 PM

No it doesn't. 

I mean, it seems that way to people who really want to believe that.  But I don't have any reason to really want to believe it.

So what I see is an unarmed, unruly mob, that endangered their own lives as much or more than anyone else's, and ended up accomplishing nothing-- because they never had any real goal to accomplish anything.

If you think buffalo bob and company had some concrete goal in mind, you're giving them a lot more credit than they deserve. 

Oh I don't attribute any "goal" to the mob other than to follow Donald Trump and raise hell because he lost and they didn't think that should happen.

I'm referring to Trump, who made repeated false claims about the election to sow doubt among his supporters and the nation at large about the actual outcome. He also claimed Mike Pence could overturn the election, and in fact pressured several people to try and subvert the election.  Rudy Giuliani also left the following message intended for Tommy Tuberville, of all people.

"We need you, our Republican friends, to try to just slow it down ... So if you could object to every state and, along with a congressman, get a hearing for every state, I know we would delay you a lot, but it would give us the opportunity to get the legislators who are very, very close to pulling their vote ... they have written letters asking that you guys adjourn and send them back the questionable ones and they'll fix them up"."

Why delay things? Because the hope was they could stop Congress from certifying election results and instead resort to the Constitutional method for when no electoral college winner is declared, which is each state delegation gets a vote, which would have advantaged Republicans and theoretically provided a path towards Trump remaining in office. A good way to delay things would be to simply stop Congress from operating at all, which is what they did, at least for a few hours. So the idea that this was just some goofy protest and not one specifically designed to help Trump subvert the election is not something anyone should buy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2021, 04:38:38 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 05, 2021, 04:14:39 PM

No it doesn't. 

I mean, it seems that way to people who really want to believe that.  But I don't have any reason to really want to believe it.

So what I see is an unarmed, unruly mob, that endangered their own lives as much or more than anyone else's, and ended up accomplishing nothing-- because they never had any real goal to accomplish anything.

If you think buffalo bob and company had some concrete goal in mind, you're giving them a lot more credit than they deserve. 

I think the concrete goal was to do SOMETHING and then Pence would refuse to certify. Here's Trump on that day:

Quote

He looked at Mike Pence, and I hope Mike is going to do the right thing.
I hope so. I hope so because if Mike Pence does the right thing, we win the election. All he has to do. This is from the number one or certainly one of the top constitutional lawyers in our country. He has the absolute right to do it. We’re supposed to protect our country, support our country, support our constitution, and protect our constitution. States want to revote. The States got defrauded. They were given false information. They voted on it. Now they want to recertify. They want it back. All Vice-President Pence has to do is send it back to the States to recertify, and we become president, and you are the happiest people.

Quote

We’re going to have to fight much harder and Mike Pence is going to have to come through for us. If he doesn’t, that will be a sad day for our country because you’re sworn to uphold our constitution. Now it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy. After this, we’re going to walk down and I’ll be there with you. We’re going to walk down. We’re going to walk down any one you want, but I think right here. We’re going walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators, and congressmen and women. We’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong.
We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated, lawfully slated. I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard. Today we will see whether Republicans stand strong for integrity of our elections, but whether or not they stand strong for our country, our country.

Quote

Today, we see a very important event though, because right over there, right there, we see the event going to take place. And I’m going to be watching, because history is going to be made. We’re going to see whether or not we have great and courageous leaders or whether or not we have leaders that should be ashamed of themselves throughout history, throughout eternity, they’ll be ashamed. And you know what? If they do the wrong thing, we should never ever forget that they did. Never forget. We should never ever forget. With only three of the seven states in question, we win the presidency of the United States.

Quote

By the way, Pennsylvania has now seen all of this. They didn’t know because it was so quick. They had a vote, they voted, but now they see all this stuff. It’s all come to light. Doesn’t happen that fast. And they want to re certify their votes. They want to re certify. But the only way that can happen is if Mike Pence agrees to send it back.
Mike Pence has to agree to send it back. And many people in Congress want it sent back, and take of what you’re doing. Let’s say you don’t do it. Somebody says, “Well, we have to obey the constitution.” And you are, because you’re protecting our country and you’re protecting the constitution, so you are.

Quote

And Mike Pence, I hope you’re going to stand up for the good of our constitution and for the good of our country. And if you’re not, I’m going to be very disappointed in you.

Quote

The Republicans have to get tougher. You’re not going to have a Republican party if you don’t get tougher. They want to play so straight, they want to play so, “Sir, yes, the United States, the constitution doesn’t allow me to send them back to the States.” Well, I say, “Yes, it does because the constitution says you have to protect our country and you have to protect our constitution and you can’t vote on fraud,” and fraud breaks up everything, doesn’t it? When you catch somebody in a fraud, you’re allowed to go by very different rules. So I hope Mike has the courage to do what he has to do. And I hope he doesn’t listen to the RINOs and the stupid people that he’s listening to.

Quote

I think one of our great achievements will be election security because nobody until I came along, had any idea how corrupt our elections were. And again, most people would stand there at 9:00 in the evening and say, “I want to thank you very much,” and they go off to some other life, but I said, “Something’s wrong here. Something’s really wrong. Can’t have happened.” And we fight. We fight like Hell and if you don’t fight like Hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.

Quote

So we’re going to, we’re going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, I love Pennsylvania Avenue, and we’re going to the Capitol and we’re going to try and give… The Democrats are hopeless. They’re never voting for anything, not even one vote. But we’re going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones, because the strong ones don’t need any of our help, we’re going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.

Their goal was to convince, force, cajole, who knows(?), Congress or Mike Pence to not certify the slates of electors. That's specifically what Trump was telling them was the way to make everything better. Don't certify, send it back to the states, or the House, or ANYTHING other than actually certifying the election.

It was a last ditch effort. It was probably doomed to failure whether they stormed the capitol or not. In fact, storming the capitol was probably counterproductive because it turned public opinion against them. And I don't know how they figured storming the capitol would have helped them achieve the goal--that was just pure mob action. 

But don't say they didn't have a goal. The goal was to stop Pence and Congress from certifying the electors. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 05, 2021, 04:55:38 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 04:28:40 PM

my brother went streaking, once.  at church camp

my mother was not amused

Was he sentenced to a couple of months serving Coffee Klatches?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 05, 2021, 04:58:05 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 05, 2021, 04:22:25 PM

You actually went streaking?  I thought that was just a thing in the movies! :)

https://youtu.be/XtzoUu7w-YM?t=1

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 04:59:01 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 05, 2021, 04:22:25 PM

You actually went streaking?  I thought that was just a thing in the movies! :)

I did not, but the largest streak in the country was at UGA and I was observing.  

I know the mob thought somehow they would stop Pence, but I don't think of that as a concrete specific goal with any kind of plan.  I suppose it's semantics.

It was a vague notion, we'll march over there and somehow stop Pence.  Hang him?

And it absolutely damaged their "cause".  Most sensible folks were shocked.  I'd bet a lot of the 29,000 were shocked and dismayed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 05, 2021, 05:04:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 04:20:32 PM

Mobs often are this way, just folks doing what they see everyone else doing, without much conceived intent.  Reminds me of streaking back in the day, running around nekkid.  Why?  Because everyone else was doing it.

Let's all march over to the Capitol and, well, we'll show'em, yeah.  Unarmed.

Dumb idea, lowest common denominator.

So, I think this is sort of removing a little potency from the act.

You went streaking because it was essentially harmless and you knew or believed the consequences were minimal. Now, being part of a mob reduces your sense of consequences, to be sure, but we have to account for the fact that at some point, folks gotta say "I get that everyone is doing it, but ransacking the US Capital building means something." It means you're doing something that is considered pretty much unilaterally bad and horrifying (if it isn't that, we have another discussion).

I don't have much angst toward many of the folks who went over. Many as you said, went to go. But a lot went because they want desperately to believe something. Even if that something is extralegal wearing down of democratic norms, ehhh, you can protest for nonsense, that's America. But at some point, you've streaked into the US Capital with insanity going on around you. And at some point, you've either consciously crossed the line or just acted really irresponsibly. 

Now, I suppose if it was a smaller crown, they might have been dealt with more harshly. But power in numbers prevailed. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 05, 2021, 05:04:40 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2021, 04:38:38 PM

I think the concrete goal was to do SOMETHING and then Pence would refuse to certify. Here's Trump on that day:

Their goal was to convince, force, cajole, who knows(?), Congress or Mike Pence to not certify the slates of electors. That's specifically what Trump was telling them was the way to make everything better. Don't certify, send it back to the states, or the House, or ANYTHING other than actually certifying the election.

It was a last ditch effort. It was probably doomed to failure whether they stormed the capitol or not. In fact, storming the capitol was probably counterproductive because it turned public opinion against them. And I don't know how they figured storming the capitol would have helped them achieve the goal--that was just pure mob action.

But don't say they didn't have a goal. The goal was to stop Pence and Congress from certifying the electors.

That's not a goal, that's an outlandish idea, with no goal and no plan to achieve that goal.

Sorry guys, this was not a coup attempt.  People that have actually seen coups, people that live in revolutionary war-torn countries, are rolling their eyes at this hyperbolic categorization of what was an unruly and somewhat violent mob.  

I'm certainly not saying Trump is blameless, he's the rouser that stirred the rabble.  

But I'm also saying this was not a coup attempt.

I AM the middle ground on this one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 05:05:32 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 05, 2021, 04:55:38 PM

Was he sentenced to a couple of months serving Coffee Klatches?

I think it was a couple months grounded to his room.  No TV, radio, or friends.  This was the 70s, before gaming and internets

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 05, 2021, 05:10:00 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 04:59:01 PM

I did not, but the largest streak in the country was at UGA and I was observing. 

I know the mob thought somehow they would stop Pence, but I don't think of that as a concrete specific goal with any kind of plan.  I suppose it's semantics.

It was a vague notion, we'll march over there and somehow stop Pence.  Hang him?

And it absolutely damaged their "cause".  Most sensible folks were shocked.  I'd bet a lot of the 29,000 were shocked and dismayed.

It seemed a little like the dog that caught the car. 

Mob makes it to the capital. Set to stand there. A few hundred start fighting cops. They win. They break in. Many more trail the vanguard. 

Like, I'm sure not everyone is gonna do something grotesque. But it takes five people or less to beat a 61-year-old savagely. How many to overwhelm security? Not a lot. And it's not like the hundreds are gonna step in and say "you must stop." 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 05, 2021, 05:10:40 PM

so now in the news its being reported that Eric Swalwell has filed suit against Trump and several others in an attempt to hold him responsible for the Jan 6th riot

This will be very interesting

First time Ive ever heard of a sitting US congressman suing a US citizen

Brings up all sorts of legal issues

I really dont think Swalwell has thought this out as it opens the door for all sorts of discovery
not only on the former Presidnt but on Swalwell also

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 05, 2021, 05:14:12 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 05, 2021, 05:10:00 PM

It seemed a little like the dog that caught the car.

Mob makes it to the capital. Set to stand there. A few hundred start fighting cops. They win. They break in. Many more trail the vanguard.

Like, I'm sure not everyone is gonna do something grotesque. But it takes five people or less to beat a 61-year-old savagely. How many to overwhelm security? Not a lot. And it's not like the hundreds are gonna step in and say "you must stop."

Sure.  And this right here is just another way of saying-- They had no plan.

Their only idea, was to vent anger, because they were being told the election was stolen.  

That is certainly what generates an angry mob.

That is not what constitutes a coup.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2021, 05:17:19 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 05, 2021, 05:04:40 PM

That's not a goal, that's an outlandish idea, with no goal and no plan to achieve that goal.

Sorry guys, this was not a coup attempt.  People that have actually seen coups, people that live in revolutionary war-torn countries, are rolling their eyes at this hyperbolic categorization of what was an unruly and somewhat violent mob. 

I'm certainly not saying Trump is blameless, he's the rouser that stirred the rabble. 

But I'm also saying this was not a coup attempt.

I AM the middle ground on this one.

No, it was mob action, which couldn't be effective or well-planned enough to be a legitimate coup attempt. 

I doubt they actually believe they would have gotten a hold of Pence, nor do I think, if it REALLY came down to it, that they would have known what to do with him if they did. I don't think these yokel's were REALLY planning to hang anyone that day. If they'd grabbed Pence and then people started yelling "hang him!", I'm guessing sh!t would have gotten real for most of them immediately and they'd shut it down.

But there was a goal. It was outlandish, and their plan didn't exactly have any real causative mechanism to accomplish said goal. But there was a goal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 05, 2021, 05:17:40 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 05:05:32 PM

I think it was a couple months grounded to his room.  No TV, radio, or friends.  This was the 70s, before gaming and internets

Ya when you wanted a ride to friends house in the winter you just grabbed the bumper(remember those?) of a passing car.Once at night I almost gabbed a cops bumper realized the mistake and kept running.Ya the '70s - tough times 😁

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 05, 2021, 05:19:29 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2021, 05:17:19 PM

No, it was mob action, which couldn't be effective or well-planned enough to be a legitimate coup attempt.

I doubt they actually believe they would have gotten a hold of Pence, nor do I think, if it REALLY came down to it, that they would have known what to do with him if they did. I don't think these yokel's were REALLY planning to hang anyone that day. If they'd grabbed Pence and then people started yelling "hang him!", I'm guessing sh!t would have gotten real for most of them immediately and they'd shut it down.

But there was a goal. It was outlandish, and their plan didn't exactly have any real causative mechanism to accomplish said goal. But there was a goal.

Not gonna agree with you on that.

A general vague idea of "stop the certification somehow" just isn't a goal.

Beyond that, I don't believe more than a tiny handful of them even had that general vague idea.  The majority were just following a mob.

No goal, no plan, no weapons-- not a coup attempt. Any characterization as such is agenda-driven hyperbole, coming from the usual suspects.

I'll leave it at that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 05, 2021, 05:19:37 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 05, 2021, 05:04:40 PM

That's not a goal, that's an outlandish idea, with no goal and no plan to achieve that goal.

Sorry guys, this was not a coup attempt.  People that have actually seen coups, people that live in revolutionary war-torn countries, are rolling their eyes at this hyperbolic categorization of what was an unruly and somewhat violent mob. 

I'm certainly not saying Trump is blameless, he's the rouser that stirred the rabble. 

But I'm also saying this was not a coup attempt.

I AM the middle ground on this one.

I'd call that a fair assessment. I think there was to a degree a goal. Not a concrete one. There was no plan, and maybe no realistic goal. I think one could argue, there was an ideal endpoint, but kind of a fantastical one. 

I think that's one downside of our current discourse. We use phrasing that promises fantasies. And it's super profitable to to promise such imaginary situations. And a lot of folks know that much of this is kinda stupid burfle, but just enough don't that it should concern. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 05, 2021, 05:25:00 PM

well I just noted that Swallwel's suit isnt the only suit against Trump as a Rep Thompson has also filed suit three weeks ago alleging his civil rights were violated because of Trump

I will be really surprised if both of thses suits arent thrown out 

should be interesting

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 05, 2021, 05:30:37 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 05, 2021, 05:10:40 PM

so now in the news its being reported that Eric Swalwell has filed suit against Trump and several others in an attempt to hold him responsible for the Jan 6th riot

This will be very interesting

First time Ive ever heard of a sitting US congressman suing a US citizen

Brings up all sorts of legal issues

I really dont think Swalwell has thought this out as it opens the door for all sorts of discovery
not only on the former Presidnt but on Swalwell also

Oh, that's happened through the years. I think Devin Nunes has been doing it for a while now. He's suing that twitter cow and the person behind it. 

Both are stunt suits, which I generally think are a gross misuse of the justice system. But they get headlines and donations. Cynical poor acts in my view. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2021, 05:31:00 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 05, 2021, 05:19:29 PM

Not gonna agree with you on that.

A general vague idea of "stop the certification somehow" just isn't a goal.

Beyond that, I don't believe more than a tiny handful of them even had that general vague idea.  The majority were just following a mob.

No goal, no plan, no weapons-- not a coup attempt. Any characterization as such is agenda-driven hyperbole, coming from the usual suspects.

I'll leave it at that.

I think a lot of them had that general vague idea. Their heads had been filled for two months with "stop the steal". Trumps actual statements on that day, which I quoted, were basically all around the idea of getting Pence and Congress not to certify. The multiple days prior to Jan 6 there were multiple news stories that Trump wanted Pence to do just that and Pence was refusing. This was the powder keg that had been created.

So Trump told the mob that they needed Pence and Congress to refuse to certify. And that if they didn't do so, "you don't have a country any more". 

I wouldn't call it a coup attempt. But I think the general idea was clear. I'll bet if you polled the folks that were marching to the capitol building, 80%+ would have said the goal was to get Pence and Congress to stop the certification. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 05, 2021, 05:31:33 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 05, 2021, 05:19:37 PM

I'd call that a fair assessment. I think there was to a degree a goal. Not a concrete one. There was no plan, and maybe no realistic goal. I think one could argue, there was an ideal endpoint, but kind of a fantastical one.

I think that's one downside of our current discourse. We use phrasing that promises fantasies. And it's super profitable to to promise such imaginary situations. And a lot of folks know that much of this is kinda stupid burfle, but just enough don't that it should concern.

word

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2021, 05:33:25 PM

I'm really interested to see the outcomes of Dominion and Smartmatic's defamation suits.

To date, I don't think Trump has been named in either, but Rudy and Sidney Powell both have. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 05, 2021, 05:56:52 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2021, 05:33:25 PM

I'm really interested to see the outcomes of Dominion and Smartmatic's defamation suits.

To date, I don't think Trump has been named in either, but Rudy and Sidney Powell both have.

that one really stumps me

If Sidney Powell made all those accusations without proof then she should be roasted

Id be really surprised if she didnt have some sort of proof

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 06:08:06 PM

I would be shocked if she has proof of anything.

I think we're in substantive agreement about the Capitol aside from semantics.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 05, 2021, 06:39:54 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 06:08:06 PM

I would be shocked if she has proof of anything.

I think we're in substantive agreement about the Capitol aside from semantics.

why would an attorney of her stature just throw away their reputation 

I just dont see it

but hey Im surprised every day 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 07:40:11 PM

I think she has dementia.  I read her "brief", it was atrocious, really really bad.  Just a concoction of popular mythical claims with zero evidence.

I think her best defense is going to be mental defect.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 05, 2021, 07:58:45 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 07:40:11 PM

I think she has dementia.  I read her "brief", it was atrocious, really really bad.  Just a concoction of popular mythical claims with zero evidence.

I think her best defense is going to be mental defect.

well dont hold back CD tell us how you feel about her

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 05, 2021, 08:25:50 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 05, 2021, 07:58:45 PM

well dont hold back CD tell us how you feel about her

If memory serves, she was the one who kept filing lawsuits with egregious typos as well. A lot of that situation was messy to say the least. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2021, 08:27:06 PM

Good evening for the wine bar.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 05, 2021, 08:27:28 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 05, 2021, 08:25:50 PM

If memory serves, she was the one who kept filing lawsuits with egregious typos as well. A lot of that situation was messy to say the least.

typos????

Oh the humanity!!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 08:44:18 PM

glad we don't have them here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2021, 09:14:19 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 02:49:24 PM

I'm sayin it can't be proven either way

one side wants the other side to just believe the election was honest and true with no wrong doing

we all know this isn't going to happen.

I'd just like more assurance that the election was fair than what I've seen at this point.  Knowing full well that's not going to happen.

I'm just pointing out that the side that thinks there was wrong doing has little reason to change their mind.

There is evidence of attempted wrong doing, and it's on the losing side.  
But you know, stay "fair and balanced" in your own head.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2021, 09:19:55 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 05, 2021, 05:19:29 PM

Not gonna agree with you on that.

A general vague idea of "stop the certification somehow" just isn't a goal.

Beyond that, I don't believe more than a tiny handful of them even had that general vague idea.  The majority were just following a mob.

No goal, no plan, no weapons-- not a coup attempt. Any characterization as such is agenda-driven hyperbole, coming from the usual suspects.

I'll leave it at that.

LOL
I like this.  They were too stupid to attempt a coup.  Reminds me of the Trump defense in his FIRST impeachment.  He was too stupid to collude with Russia, just a clueless beneficiary.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 05, 2021, 09:23:53 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2021, 09:19:55 PM

LOL
I like this.  They were too stupid to attempt a coup.  Reminds me of the Trump defense in his FIRST impeachment.  He was too stupid to collude with Russia, just a clueless beneficiary. 

Speaking of clueless..... 

werent you babbling about “evidence” in this thread?  Trump didn’t need a defense.  There was virtually zero evidence against him.  

as several prominent Dems admitted just prior to the second failed impeachment- the first was nothing more than a political fishing expedition. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 05, 2021, 09:48:10 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 05, 2021, 08:27:28 PM

typos????

Oh the humanity!!!!

Well, you described her as an attorney of stature with that reputation. 

And in a field where language matters, where precision matters, where not immediately looking foolish in front of a judge matters, efforts this person spearheaded misspelled the word district in two different ways at the top of a lawsuit. And these lawsuits, if one believed they had merit, would have literally been among the most important lawsuits in American history. 

So if a person responsible for something is comically sloppy, one might assume either something is wrong with her or she is deeply incompetent. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2021, 10:06:44 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 05, 2021, 09:23:53 PM

Speaking of clueless.....

werent you babbling about “evidence” in this thread?  Trump didn’t need a defense.  There was virtually zero evidence against him. 

as several prominent Dems admitted just prior to the second failed impeachment- the first was nothing more than a political fishing expedition.

Yeah, it's gonna be tough to present evidence when no witnesses or subpoenaed documents are allowed.  I guess then, you're able to say there's no evidence and technically not be lying.
You should consider changing your name to MitchJr

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 05, 2021, 10:45:38 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2021, 10:06:44 PM

Yeah, it's gonna be tough to present evidence when no witnesses or subpoenaed documents are allowed.  I guess then, you're able to say there's no evidence and technically not be lying.
You should consider changing your name to MitchJr

The House was supposed to have done that before their vote to impeach but chose not to and then wanted the senate to do their job

Its in the Constitution just read it. I have but its obvious you have not

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 10:46:19 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2021, 09:14:19 PM

There is evidence of attempted wrong doing, and it's on the losing side. 
But you know, stay "fair and balanced" in your own head.

are these folks being held accountable?
or did some judge just decide not to take the case

I'd love nothing more than cheaters and law breakers to be held accountable - both sides of the aisle

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 06, 2021, 09:17:27 AM

Les Miles on leave at Kansas as a report came out that he was cavorting with the coeds at LSU

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2021, 09:44:39 AM

Typos in an important legal brief on the first page are ONE indication of sloppy work.  The term "circuit" was misspelled, twice.  I don't worry about the occasional typo in the body if the rest of the brief is meaty, but that wasn't the case here, at all.

At best, it's evidence for hurried work, but the brief wasn't all that long, and it was replete with completely unsubstantiated charges including some which are easily disproven with a quick check of voting tabulations.

It contained no new information, just a regurgitation of false claims made public by others, like that MBA in Texas, whose claims are easily checked and dismissed as nonfactual.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 06, 2021, 09:51:47 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 06, 2021, 09:17:27 AM

Les Miles on leave at Kansas as a report came out that he was cavorting with the coeds at LSU

Ya know I would not be shocked,back in '07 & '11 when LSU was playing for NCs and he was a hot commodity it was obvious he flirted/fawned  with and over attractive reporters.Remember one he did with Erin Andrews - so damn blatant I felt bad for his family and LSU.You'd think these guys might remember Bobby Petrino,Mike Price,etc;Hope it's all false but considering all the grass he ate prolly not

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 06, 2021, 12:02:24 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 06, 2021, 09:17:27 AM

Les Miles on leave at Kansas as a report came out that he was cavorting with the coeds at LSU

there were rumors that this is a reason why he wasn't ever going to coach at Michigan. didn't believe them. now i do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 06, 2021, 12:10:28 PM

Wasn't JoePa's wife a Penn St student that he courted and married while he was their FB HC? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2021, 02:10:19 PM

We stopped and got take out at Community BBQ today, I was wanting to try it.  They only do take out.  On the whole I prefer Fox Bros.

Community Q BBQ (http://communityqbbq.com/#home-section)

Their Mac and Cheese was apparently home made.  Brunswick stew was decent, not great.  The pulled pork was very lean, I liked that, no obvious fat.  Two kinds of sauces including eastern Carolina type (vinegar).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 06, 2021, 02:11:02 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on March 06, 2021, 12:10:28 PM

Wasn't JoePa's wife a Penn St student that he courted and married while he was their FB HC?

Assistant. It appears he had 13ish years on her. Not ideal, though obviously very different times. When they got married, he was 35, her 22, I think

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 06, 2021, 02:18:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 06, 2021, 02:10:19 PM

We stopped and got take out at Community BBQ today, I was wanting to try it.  They only do take out.  On the whole I prefer Fox Bros.

Community Q BBQ (http://communityqbbq.com/#home-section)

Their Mac and Cheese was apparently home made.  Brunswick stew was decent, not great.  The pulled pork was very lean, I liked that, no obvious fat.  Two kinds of sauces including eastern Carolina type (vinegar).

I've found the range of even the appearance of Brunswick stew to be vast.  A range of quality is expected, but I've seen it looking like soup, like canned chili, served by itself, served over white rice....it's weird.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2021, 02:24:54 PM

It does vary a lot, even from  Brunswick, GA to Brunswick County Virginia, both lay claim to it.

I like it when it's good, and it's usually at least OK.  I make it myself at times.  I might make some tonight.  My daughter should be here from C-bus, she's on the road now, in TN I suspect.  (She just texted me from Loudon, TN, she's less than four hours out.)
This was more like soup and had no lima beans or potatoes, which is OK, but I prefer the kind with lima beans.

It was a touch spicy.  The wife asked me to make sweet tea so I did.  She liked it, she thinks it's an arduous task to make sweet tea.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2021, 02:25:06 PM

NASA Perseverance Rover Completes First Test Drive On Mars : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2021/03/06/974386021/in-first-test-drive-on-mars-perseverance-rover-makes-a-short-but-significant-tri)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 06, 2021, 02:28:10 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on March 06, 2021, 12:10:28 PM

Wasn't JoePa's wife a Penn St student that he courted and married while he was their FB HC?

Cavorting with coeds is probably a bad description. At best it sounds like he was hiring student workers to be his personal Hooters staff and at worst hiring them for his personal harem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 07, 2021, 08:17:54 AM

Who knew?  Buying a watch in 1880!

If you were in the market for a watch in 1880, would you know where to get one? You would go to a store, right? Well, of course, you could do that, but if you wanted one that was cheaper and a bit better than most of the store watches, you went to the train station!Sound a bit funny?

Well, for about 500 towns across the northern United States, that's where the best watches were found. Why?
The railroad company wasn't selling the watches, not at all.
The telegraph operator was.
Most of the time the telegraph operator was located in the railroad station because the telegraph lines followed the railroad tracks from town to town.
It was usually the shortest distance and the right-of-way had already been secured for the rail line.
Most of the station agents were also skilled telegraph operators and it was the primary way they communicated with the railroad.
They would know when trains left the previous station and when they were due at their next station.
And it was the telegraph operator who had the watches.
As a matter of fact, they sold more of them than almost all the stores combined for a period of about 9 years.
This was all arranged by "Richard", who was a telegraph operator himself.
He was on duty in the North Redwood, Minnesota train station one day when a load of watches arrived from the East. It was a huge crate of pocket watches. No one ever came to claim them.
So Richard sent a telegram to the manufacturer and asked them what they wanted to do with the watches.
The manufacturer didn't want to pay the freight back, so they wired Richard to see if he could sell them. So Richard did.
He sent a wire to every agent in the system asking them if they wanted a cheap, but good, pocket watch.
He sold the entire case in less than two days and at a handsome profit.
That started it all. He ordered more watches from the watch company and encouraged the telegraph operators to set up a display case in the station offering high quality watches for a cheap price to all the travelers.
It worked!
It didn't take long for the word to spread and, before long, people other than travelers came to the train station to buy watches. Richard became so busy that he had to hire a professional watchmaker to help him with the orders.
That was Alvah.
And the rest is history as they say.
The business took off and soon expanded to many other lines of dry goods.
Richard and Alvah left the train station and moved their company to Chicago -- and it's still there.
YES, IT'S A LITTLE KNOWN FACT  that for a while in the 1880s, the biggest watch retailer in the country was at the train station. It all started with a telegraph operator: Richard Sears and partner Alvah Roebuck!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2021, 08:24:23 AM

When we moved to Atlanta in 1964, this was THE Sears in town.

(https://i.imgur.com/GxDVeJR.png)

There wasn't another one that I knew of.  We went to this one if we went to Sears.  Obviously, over the years it closed as a retail outlet, and fell into some disrepair, was bought by the city for offices, and then by a developer who had this idea for "Ponce City Market", which has been a major success.

Ponce City Market (https://poncecitymarket.com/)

It has sparked construction all over near it coupled with its being adjacent to the East Belt Line, a walking biking path on an old RR grade.

Usually, buildings like this get torn down here for something boring.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 07, 2021, 09:40:29 AM

I think I'm probably an overly nostalgic person. I miss Sears.  When I was a kid, it was a wonderland that had everything.  

(Including the "toughskin" jeans my mom made me wear because they were less expensive but had double-reinforced knees that were tougher for me to wear through)

I also miss McDonald's with the outside playground that had this:

(https://i.imgur.com/q0QydV6.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2021, 10:21:05 AM

Across the street was the baseball park for the Atlanta Crackers minor league team (and the Atlanta Black Crackers as well).  In center field, in play, was a magnolia tree that is still there.  The rest is a strip mall in effect with a Home Depot and Whole Foods and whatnot.  

Atlanta Stadium was built in 1965 for $16 million.  It cost $64 million to tear it down and cart it away.  MB Stadium cost $1.5 billion, 100x.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 07, 2021, 04:23:23 PM

Some of that playground equipment was fun....unless you lived where it was hot.  That Hamburgler or Mayor McCheese thing is all-metal and it would burn the shit out of you in the summer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 07, 2021, 04:32:06 PM

some good wrestling on the BTN this afternoon 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 07, 2021, 04:37:33 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 07, 2021, 04:32:06 PM

some good wrestling on the BTN this afternoon

unless its female mud wrestling I'll pass

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 07, 2021, 05:02:19 PM

What about creamed corn?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 07, 2021, 05:04:21 PM

or jello

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 09:03:23 AM

As I and many others predicted crude oil prices continue to rise

at $66/barrel from $45/barrel Nov 2020

They are at a current 2 year high and still going up

Good job President Biden you'll have this country on its knees in no time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 08, 2021, 09:11:09 AM

Didn't expect to see a Sargent Big Mac reference in here.

(https://cdnmetv.metv.com/KrU8p-1462830352-852-blog-Header%202.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 08, 2021, 10:43:03 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 09:03:23 AM

As I and many others predicted crude oil prices continue to rise

at $66/barrel from $45/barrel Nov 2020

They are at a current 2 year high and still going up

Good job President Biden you'll have this country on its knees in no time

On the flipside, I've got a friend that owns multiple wells on his ranch in South Texas.  They stop pumping when oil gets below about $60/barrel because it's not worth it for them.  Now, they're going to be raking in the money again.  When he's rolling in the dough, he always pays off some ridiculous tabs at mega-expensive bars and restaurants for me and some other close friends, so I'd expect to start getting some invites from him soon. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2021, 10:47:40 AM

always a silver lining

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 11:03:40 AM

Gasoline prices follow oil prices

(https://i.imgur.com/M7cHNfj.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2021, 11:05:01 AM

I blame the Russians

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 11:07:43 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 08, 2021, 10:43:03 AM

On the flipside, I've got a friend that owns multiple wells on his ranch in South Texas.  They stop pumping when oil gets below about $60/barrel because it's not worth it for them.  Now, they're going to be raking in the money again.  When he's rolling in the dough, he always pays off some ridiculous tabs at mega-expensive bars and restaurants for me and some other close friends, so I'd expect to start getting some invites from him soon. :)

I inherited several oil royalty wells from my parents

and yes my monthly checks have increased

unfortunately many joe six packs wont see any benefit

 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 11:08:47 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 08, 2021, 11:05:01 AM

I blame the Russians

well dont be too vocal about it cause next week we'll probably be buying oil from them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 08, 2021, 11:13:06 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 11:07:43 AM

I inherited several oil royalty wells from my parents

and yes my monthly checks have increased

unfortunately many joe six packs wont see any benefit

 

Last time he was really raking it in, several years back, he bought a huge $2 million house on a quadruple lot in Central Austin just north of campus.  Those don't even really exist, I have no idea how he found a place with so much property.  But I'm glad he did, for the Texas-LSU game in 2019 he had a huge tailgate party on the grounds, hired caterers and everything, 300 people or so.  It was kind of a big deal.  I stayed late and helped him clean up a lot of it and we cleared out the last of the specialty vodka bar together.  That was  a great weekend, aside from the result of the game of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2021, 11:27:21 AM

I preferred when the Russians and Saudis had the price war a year ago

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 08, 2021, 11:39:07 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 09:03:23 AM

As I and many others predicted crude oil prices continue to rise

at $66/barrel from $45/barrel Nov 2020

They are at a current 2 year high and still going up

Good job President Biden you'll have this country on its knees in no time

It's funny, when a person likes the president, the other side says he doesn't control gas prices, but when they don't like him, it's all his fault.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2021, 11:45:25 AM

yup, the president is mostly the guy that stands behind the podium and takes the blame

unless he's signing executive orders, then it is his fault

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 08, 2021, 11:46:08 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 08, 2021, 11:45:25 AM

yup, the president is mostly the guy that stands behind the podium and takes the blame

unless he's signing executive orders, then it is his fault

As far as I know, there haven't been any executive orders signed since January 20th, right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 12:15:16 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 08, 2021, 11:39:07 AM

It's funny, when a person likes the president, the other side says he doesn't control gas prices, but when they don't like him, it's all his fault.

Amazing how not issuing oil and gas permits and shutting down oil production on federal lands causes me to feel our current President

is one of the main reasons for oil price increases

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2021, 12:17:09 PM

oil companies will use just about any reason, valid or not, to increase prices

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2021, 12:17:51 PM

in other news................

This is Lt. Hargrave's photo of boys from second platoon of Charlie, 2-501, 101st at Battalion training.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/557171_2897735012489_1914749651_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=cdbe9c&_nc_ohc=dYfqqIvOMLcAX-6TsG9&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=821f734ae1801a230c7e754561de727a&oe=606D9E9F)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 12:19:46 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 08, 2021, 12:17:09 PM

oil companies will use just about any reason, valid or not, to increase prices

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2021/01/29/how-president-bidens-executive-orders-impact-the-oil-industry/?sh=61786d124ef4

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 12:26:22 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 08, 2021, 11:39:07 AM

It's funny, when a person likes the president, the other side says he doesn't control gas prices, but when they don't like him, it's all his fault.

On the contrary it was a direct result of President Trump's actions that oil prices fell

For the first time in a long time America was self sustaining on energy resources

we did not rely on another country for our oil

President Biden is very quickly undoing this

soon we will once again be Saudi Arabia's bitch

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2021, 12:30:58 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 08, 2021, 11:46:08 AM

As far as I know, there haven't been any executive orders signed since January 20th, right?

None that have been good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2021, 01:27:14 PM

COVID is why oil prices fell last year, and the recovery in demand is why global oil prices are increasing.  This would have happened under any President.

There is a lot of OPEC production still off line, for now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 08, 2021, 01:30:06 PM

If we are blaming Biden for things I am blaming for the Unites States' booming vaccine numbers. Good job Joe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2021, 01:41:46 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 08, 2021, 01:30:06 PM

If we are blaming Biden for things I am blaming for the Unites States' booming vaccine numbers. Good job Joe.

Operation Warp Speed was a tremendous success.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2021, 01:46:59 PM

Former Oklahoma coach and national champion Bob Stoops is the pick to replace Urban Meyer on Fox Sports' college football pre-game show, Big Noon Kickoff, the New York Post reports. Meyer left the broadcasting crew in January for the Jacksonville Jaguars job, leaving a crucial vacancy to Fox Sports' Saturday morning efforts.

Stoops, who retired in June 2017 and was named to the College Football Hall of Fame in January, spent 18 seasons as the head coach at Oklahoma, where he won 190 games with the Sooners. Under Stoops' watch, Oklahoma captured 10 Big 12 championships and one national championship (2000). The Sooners additionally reached the national title game on three other occasions (2003, 2004, 2008) and qualified for the College Football Playoff in 2015.

Stoops was a six-time Big 12 Coach of the Year selection and was named Walter Camp Coach of the Year in both 2000 and 2003. Stoops leaped out of retirement to lead the XFL's Dallas Renegades, but that league folded after one season.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 08, 2021, 01:50:40 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 09:03:23 AM

As I and many others predicted crude oil prices continue to rise

at $66/barrel from $45/barrel Nov 2020

They are at a current 2 year high and still going up

Good job President Biden you'll have this country on its knees in no time

The oil price debate seems like one of those super nuanced things we just kinda boil down to whatever makes the best point that day. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2021, 01:52:23 PM

MUST READ: Governor Ron DeSantis followed the science on coronavirus and the data now VINDICATES him

With such a large state full of seniors, Governor Ron DeSantis should have been among the worst states in terms of mortality with regard to the coronavirus. But he’s not even close, because he followed the science and didn’t do what other reckless governors like Cuomo and Murphy did up north.

This brilliant op-ed in the WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/vindication-for-ron-desantis-11614986751) explains how the facts of what DeSantis did in Florida vindicates him now and it’s long past time for him to get the recognition he deserves:

Ryan Petty on Twitter: "Absolute vindication for the leadership of ⁦@GovRonDeSantis⁩. He actually followed the science. Florida’s death rate among seniors is about 20% lower than California’s and 50% lower than New York’s, based on CDC data. https://t.co/v5bp5Wlrdi" / Twitter (https://twitter.com/rpetty/status/1368270684934307843)

Quote

IN THE EARLY MONTHS OF THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC, NEW YORK GOV. ANDREW CUOMO IMPOSED STRICT LOCKDOWN POLICIES—MANY STILL IN PLACE—AND BECAME THE MEDIA’S GOLDEN BOY. “THE GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK’S MORNING NEWS CONFERENCES HAVE BECOME PART OF THE COUNTRY’S NEW DAILY RHYTHM,” THE WASHINGTON POST’S STYLE SECTION GUSHED IN MARCH 2020. “HE’S THE STRONGMAN WHO CAN ADMIT HE’S WRONG. HE SPEAKS FLUENTLY ABOUT THE FACTS. HE WORRIES ABOUT HIS MOTHER, AND BY EXTENSION, YOURS, TOO.”
GOV. RON DESANTIS TOOK A DIFFERENT APPROACH AND WAS PILLORIED. HE WAS AMONG THE FIRST TO LIFT HIS STATE LOCKDOWN, ADOPTING SOMETHING RESEMBLING SWEDEN’S STRATEGY OF PROTECTING THE VULNERABLE WHILE KEEPING BUSINESSES AND SCHOOLS OPEN. “FLORIDA MAN LEADS HIS STATE TO THE MORGUE,” READ A JUNE HEADLINE IN THE NEW REPUBLIC. “RON DESANTIS IS THE LATEST IN A LONG LINE OF REPUBLICANS WHO MADE THE STATE A PLUTOCRATIC DYSTOPIA. NOW HE’S LETTING ITS RESIDENTS DIE TO SAVE THE PLUTOCRATS.”
A YEAR AFTER THE VIRUS HIT THE U.S., MR. CUOMO’S LUSTER HAS FADED, AND MR. DESANTIS CAN CLAIM VINDICATION. THE SUNSHINE STATE APPEARS TO HAVE WEATHERED THE PANDEMIC BETTER THAN OTHERS LIKE NEW YORK AND CALIFORNIA, WHICH STAYED LOCKED DOWN HARDER AND LONGER.
MORTALITY DATA BEAR OUT THIS CONCLUSION. THE COVID DEATH RISK INCREASES ENORMOUSLY WITH EACH DECADE OF AGE. MORE THAN 80% OF COVID DEATHS IN THE U.S. HAVE OCCURRED AMONG SENIORS OVER 65. THEY MAKE UP A LARGER SHARE OF FLORIDA’S POPULATION THAN ANY OTHER STATE EXCEPT MAINE. BASED ON DEMOGRAPHICS, FLORIDA’S PER-CAPITA COVID DEATH RATE WOULD BE EXPECTED TO BE ONE OF THE HIGHEST IN THE COUNTRY.
NOPE. FLORIDA’S DEATH RATE IS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PACK AND ONLY SLIGHTLY HIGHER THAN IN CALIFORNIA, WHICH HAS A MUCH YOUNGER POPULATION. FLORIDA’S DEATH RATE AMONG SENIORS IS ABOUT 20% LOWER THAN CALIFORNIA’S AND 50% LOWER THAN NEW YORK’S, BASED ON CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION DATA.

NURSING HOMES

Quote

SEVERAL DEMOCRATIC GOVERNORS, INCLUDING MR. CUOMO AND NEW JERSEY’S PHIL MURPHY, EARLY IN THE PANDEMIC REQUIRED NURSING HOMES TO ACCEPT COVID PATIENTS DISCHARGED FROM HOSPITALS, THOUGH MANY WERE SHORT-STAFFED AND UNABLE TO CARE FOR THEM PROPERLY. THE NEW YORK INVESTIGATION BY ATTORNEY GENERAL LETITIA JAMES ESTIMATED THAT THE STATE’S NURSING HOME DEATHS WERE 50% HIGHER THAN MR. CUOMO’S OFFICIAL FIGURES, THOUGH IT’S IMPOSSIBLE TO KNOW HOW MANY DEATHS HIS ORDER CAUSED. THE JOURNAL REPORTED THURSDAY THAT MR. CUOMO’S AIDES REWROTE A REPORT BY STATE HEALTH OFFICIALS IN JUNE TO OMIT THE NUMBER OF NEW YORK NURSING-HOME RESIDENTS WHO’D DIED IN HOSPITALS DURING THE PANDEMIC.
MR. DESANTIS TOOK A SMARTER APPROACH. HIS ADMINISTRATION HALTED OUTSIDE VISITATIONS TO NURSING HOMES AND BOLSTERED THEIR STOCKPILE OF PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT. FLORIDA’S GOVERNMENT ALSO SET UP 23 COVID-DEDICATED NURSING CENTERS FOR ELDERLY PATIENTS DISCHARGED FROM HOSPITALS. NURSING-HOME RESIDENTS WHO TESTED POSITIVE AND COULDN’T BE ISOLATED IN THEIR FACILITIES WERE SENT TO THESE COVID-ONLY WARDS. FLORIDA SET UP FIELD HOSPITALS TO HANDLE A SURGE IN CASES THAT MODELS PREDICTED IN THE SPRING, ALTHOUGH IT NEVER MATERIALIZED.
“THOSE MODELS ABOUT HOSPITAL OVERCROWDING NEVER EVEN CAME CLOSE TO BEARING OUT, EVEN IN NEW YORK,” MR. DESANTIS SAYS IN AN INTERVIEW. “SOME OF THOSE POLICIES THAT WERE DONE IN THESE OTHER STATES, THEY REALLY WERE MOTIVATED BY THOSE MODELS. AND THOSE MODELS DID DO A LOT OF DAMAGE.”

LOCKDOWNS

Quote

LIKE MOST GOVERNORS, MR. DESANTIS SHUT DOWN MOST BUSINESSES WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP ISSUED GUIDELINES FOR A NATIONAL LOCKDOWN ON MARCH 16. “WE DID THE 15 DAYS TO SLOW THE SPREAD,” MR. DESANTIS SAYS. THE GOVERNOR KEPT RESTRICTIONS ON “NONESSENTIAL” BUSINESSES FOR SEVERAL MORE WEEKS, BUT HE LET MORE PLACES STAY OPEN THAN OTHER STATES, INCLUDING CHILD-CARE FACILITIES, CONSTRUCTION SITES, HOTELS AND BEACHES. NATIONAL MEDIA PUBLISHED PHOTOS OF CROWDED FLORIDA BEACHES. “DESANTIS IN FLORIDA LET EVERYBODY GO CRAZY OVER SPRING BREAK,” CNN’S CHRIS CUOMO, THE NEW YORK GOVERNOR’S BROTHER, SAID IN JUNE. “HE THEN EXPORTED ALL THAT VIRUS BACK TO WHEREVER—WHEREVER THEY WANTED TO GO, OK?”

BUT FLORIDA’S INFECTION RATE DURING APRIL STAYED ON PAR WITH CALIFORNIA, WHERE MOST BEACHES AND RESIDENTIAL CONSTRUCTION WERE RESTRICTED. “I WAS NOT CONVINCED THAT A LOT OF THOSE [LOCKDOWN] POLICIES WERE MAKING A HUGE DIFFERENCE AS DATA CAME IN,” MR. DESANTIS SAYS.
FLORIDA BEGAN A PHASED REOPENING IN EARLY MAY, ALLOWING RESTAURANTS, BARBERSHOPS, NAIL SALONS, GYMS AND OTHER RETAILERS TO OPERATE INITIALLY AT 50% CAPACITY PROVIDED THEY FOLLOW SOCIAL-DISTANCING AND SANITARY PROTOCOLS. BARS AND PUBS WERE LATER ALLOWED TO OPEN AT 50% CAPACITY, AND LIMITS FOR OTHER BUSINESSES WERE INCREASED.
MR. DESANTIS ALSO LET THEME PARKS—IMPORTANT FLORIDA EMPLOYERS AND TOURIST ATTRACTIONS—REOPEN AT REDUCED CAPACITY. SEAWORLD ORLANDO AND UNIVERSAL STUDIOS REOPENED IN JUNE. “DISNEY WORLD TOOK A LITTLE LONGER, BUT THAT WAS JUST BECAUSE OF THEIR [OWN] BUSINESS DECISIONS.” CALIFORNIA’S GOVERNMENT STILL HASN’T ALLOWED THE DISNEYLAND OR UNIVERSAL STUDIOS THEME PARKS TO REOPEN.

SURGES

Quote

FLORIDA’S CASES STARTED CLIMBING IN JUNE AS PEOPLE SOCIALIZED MORE, INCLUDING AT GRADUATION PARTIES, SUMMER COOKOUTS AND ON FATHER’S DAY. EXPERTS AND THE MEDIA CASTIGATED THE GOVERNOR FOR REOPENING TOO FAST AND TOO SOON. “DESPITE THE GUIDELINES AND THE RECOMMENDATIONS TO OPEN UP CAREFULLY AND PRUDENTLY, SOME STATES SKIPPED OVER THOSE AND JUST OPENED UP TOO QUICKLY,” THE NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH’S ANTHONY FAUCI SAID IN JULY. “CERTAINLY FLORIDA I KNOW, YOU KNOW, I THINK JUMPED OVER A COUPLE OF CHECKPOINTS.”
BUT CASES SPIKED ACROSS THE SUN BELT, INCLUDING IN CALIFORNIA, WHICH MAINTAINED MUCH STRICTER BUSINESS RESTRICTIONS. STILL, POLITICAL PRESSURE INTENSIFIED ON MR. DESANTIS TO SHUT DOWN HIS STATE AGAIN. HE REFUSED. “I’M LIKE, ‘NO, WE’RE NOT GOING TO LOCK DOWN. IT DOESN’T WORK. IT COMPOUNDS PROBLEMS,’ ” HE SAYS. THE VIRUS IS NOT “GOING TO BE GOVERNED BY SIMPLY CLOSING SOMEONE’S BUSINESS, OR NOT LETTING PEOPLE GO TO WORK.”
MR. DESANTIS SAYS HE LISTENED TO A DIFFERENT CAST OF EXPERTS SUCH AS STANFORD’S JAY BHATTACHARYA, HARVARD’S MARTIN KULLDORFF AND OXFORD’S CARL HENEGHAN AND SUNETRA GUPTA. INSTEAD OF SHUTTING DOWN BUSINESSES IN THE SUMMER, HE ORDERED MORE-FREQUENT TESTING FOR NURSING-HOME WORKERS AND DEPLOYED MORE PERSONNEL TO HARD-HIT HOSPITALS. IN LATE JULY, CASES IN FLORIDA AND ACROSS THE SUN BELT BEGAN TO FALL.

THE GREAT REOPENING

Quote

IN SEPTEMBER MR. DESANTIS LIFTED CAPACITY RESTRICTIONS ON RESTAURANTS AND BARS. HE ALSO OVERRODE LOCAL JURISDICTIONS THAT TRIED TO KEEP THEM CLOSED. “WE SAID EVERY BUSINESS HAS THE RIGHT TO OPERATE; YOU CANNOT CLOSE ANYTHING. EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO WORK. YOU HAVE TO LET PEOPLE EARN A LIVING,” HE SAYS. MR. DESANTIS ALSO REQUIRED LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICTS TO OFFER IN-PERSON INSTRUCTION FIVE DAYS A WEEK IN THE FALL, THOUGH PARENTS COULD CHOOSE REMOTE LEARNING INSTEAD. “THE UNION SUED US, BUT WE BEAT THEM IN COURT.”
TEACHERS UNIONS IN LARGE SCHOOL DISTRICTS IN CALIFORNIA, MEANWHILE, HAVE REFUSED TO RETURN TO CLASSROOMS. THEY CLAIM SCHOOLS ARE UNSAFE. BUT PER CAPITA COVID CASES AMONG CHILDREN ARE ABOUT THE SAME IN FLORIDA AND CALIFORNIA.
WHEN CASES BEGAN TO RISE AGAIN IN THE FALL, DEMOCRATIC GOVERNORS LIKE MR. CUOMO AND CALIFORNIA’S GAVIN NEWSOM TIGHTENED BUSINESS SHUTDOWNS AND EVEN SOUGHT TO LIMIT THANKSGIVING GATHERINGS TO 10 PEOPLE. MR. CUOMO GRIPED THAT POLICE WEREN’T STRICTLY ENFORCING HIS HOUSEHOLD LIMITS.

RESULTS

Quote

THE FALL AND WINTER LOCKDOWNS DON’T APPEAR TO HAVE MADE ANY DIFFERENCE IN THE VIRUS SPREAD. BETWEEN NOV. 1 AND FEB. 28, THERE WERE 5.8 NEW CASES PER 100 PEOPLE IN NEW YORK, 6.4 IN CALIFORNIA, AND ONLY 5 IN FLORIDA, WHERE BUSINESSES COULD STAY OPEN AT FULL CAPACITY. BUT THE ECONOMIC IMPACT OF THE LOCKDOWNS HAS BEEN ENORMOUS.
EMPLOYMENT DECLINED BY 4.6% IN FLORIDA IN 2020, COMPARED WITH 8% IN CALIFORNIA AND 10.4% IN NEW YORK. LEISURE AND HOSPITALITY JOBS FELL 15% IN FLORIDA, VS. 30% IN CALIFORNIA AND 39% IN NEW YORK.

The rest of the article goes on to explain that everything is turning up roses in Florida compared to other large states, from the economy to new business growth to tourism to real estate. Florida is doing so much better than many of these states and they did it without all of the scary lockdowns.



DeSantis has been derided by the media from day one while the Cuomos of the county were being praised. It just goes to show just how ridiculous our garbage media is in this country and, of course, don’t expect them to acknowledge the truth of what this article explains.



I’ll leave you with this:

Jerry Dunleavy on Twitter: "A truly incredible super cut here. https://t.co/X8aou7Tp7D" / Twitter (https://twitter.com/JerryDunleavy/status/1368538197932802049)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2021, 01:59:29 PM

being better than New York and California isn't a high bar

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 02:07:08 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 08, 2021, 01:50:40 PM

The oil price debate seems like one of those super nuanced things we just kinda boil down to whatever makes the best point that day.

there cant be too much debate

Biden shut down production on Federal land and has stopped issuing exploration drilling permits

the price of oil and gasoline has increased accordingly

no debate required

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2021, 02:09:51 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 08, 2021, 01:50:40 PM

The oil price debate seems like one of those super nuanced things we just kinda boil down to whatever makes the best point that day.

That is true, though it generally is pretty clearly a result of the supply-demand equation.  A year ago, the price nominally fell below zero briefly.  There was a lot of supply and almost no demand.  The global economy is recovering and so is demand and supply is lagging.  A lot of supply was shut down a year ago.  It'll come back on line now, slowly, as they don't want to overdo it.

This has nothing to do with Biden, at all, zilch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2021, 02:10:55 PM

never fear, when OPEC production catches up with demand, the prices will drop back to 2019 levels

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2021, 02:11:47 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 02:07:08 PM

there cant be too much debate

Biden shut down production on Federal land and has stopped issuing exploration drilling permits

the price of oil and gasoline has increased accordingly

no debate required

There are 3-4 years of existing leases on Federal land, which in any event is only about 25% of oil and gas production in the US, and that is only a fraction of global oil production.  And he did not shut down production, only fracking, on Federal land, an impact we could see in 2-3 years.

Correlation is NOT causation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2021, 02:14:06 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 08, 2021, 02:10:55 PM

never fear, when OPEC production catches up with demand, the prices will drop back to 2019 levels

Oil prices (WTI) ranged from about $55 to about $75 throughout 2018 and 2019, so they are at those levels today, basically, $65 today.  This isn't some unusually high price at all.


@CL.1: 64.73 -1.36 (-2.06%) (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/@CL.1?qsearchterm=)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 02:29:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 08, 2021, 02:14:06 PM

Oil prices (WTI) ranged from about $55 to about $75 throughout 2018 and 2019, so they are at those levels today, basically, $65 today.  This isn't some unusually high price at all.


@CL.1: 64.73 -1.36 (-2.06%) (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/@CL.1?qsearchterm=)

ok when the price of oil climbs to 100/barrel we will revisit it

the price of oil has gone from 45 to 65 since election day

and shows no signs of stopping

the last thing this country needs is to curb production which is whats happening

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 02:29:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 08, 2021, 02:11:47 PM

There are 3-4 years of existing leases on Federal land, which in any event is only about 25% of oil and gas production in the US, and that is only a fraction of global oil production.  And he did not shut down production, only fracking, on Federal land, an impact we could see in 2-3 years.

Correlation is NOT causation.

it is in this case

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2021, 02:37:49 PM

It clearly is not.  Biden's steps have had zero impact on current global production.

Zero.  Precluding fracking on Federal land COULD reduce production in  2-3 years, more likely it will SHIFT production to other than Federal lands, and nonfracking production can continue anyway.  Oil is a global market, and the amount of global oil Biden limited in 2-3 years is trifling.  We're just getting back to "normal" oil prices.

OPEC will start increasing supply soon, if not already.  

(https://i.imgur.com/sEBPhyc.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2021, 02:38:20 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 08, 2021, 01:59:29 PM

being better than New York and California isn't a high bar

It is in this case. Florida has not touched its rainy day fund at all through this thing, and will not be getting a "blue state" bailout from Biden.

I'm very pissed that my money will still be going to f'ing Illinois even though I don't live there (fled there).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2021, 02:39:34 PM

just because there has been zero impact on global production doesn't mean the oil companies won't use the crap in the media to raise prices

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 02:41:51 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 08, 2021, 02:37:49 PM

It clearly is not.  Biden's steps have had zero impact on current global production.

Zero.  Precluding fracking on Federal land COULD reduce production in  2-3 years, more likely it will SHIFT production to other than Federal lands, and nonfracking production can continue anyway.  Oil is a global market, and the amount of global oil Biden limited in 2-3 years is trifling.  We're just getting back to "normal" oil prices.

OPEC will start increasing supply soon, if not already. 

(https://i.imgur.com/sEBPhyc.png)

how can you come to that idea when your own graph shows a direct increase over the last 3 months

how and why would you come to this conclusion that Bidens actions have no affect on prices

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2021, 02:43:01 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 08, 2021, 02:39:34 PM

just because there has been zero impact on global production doesn't mean the oil companies won't use the crap in the media to raise prices

The missile attack in Saudi Arabia had a greater impact on oil prices, short term, for a day.  Oil companies do not control oil prices, they wish they did.  OPEC TRIES to control oil prices, that is their function, and even they struggle to manage it.

This is clearly a supply-demand issue.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 08, 2021, 02:43:36 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 08, 2021, 01:59:29 PM

being better than New York and California isn't a high bar

I doubt I'd use papyrus in all-caps for being average.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2021, 02:44:32 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 02:41:51 PM

how can you come to that idea when your own graph shows a direct increase over the last 3 months

how and why would you come to this conclusion that Bidens actions have no affect on prices

I could cite a number of articles by "experts" in the oil market to support my position, but I figure nobody would believe them either.

You can believe as you wish.  I'll believe what logic and experience and fact dictates.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 08, 2021, 02:45:40 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 02:41:51 PM

how can you come to that idea when your own graph shows a direct increase over the last 3 months

how and why would you come to this conclusion that Bidens actions have no affect on prices

Yeah, you're out of your depth.  
Maybe look up correlation vs causation?  After that, I don't know, maybe just listen more?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 02:46:36 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 08, 2021, 02:44:32 PM

I could cite a number of articles by "experts" in the oil market to support my position, but I figure nobody would believe them either.

You can believe as you wish.  I'll believe what logic and experience and fact dictates.

no wonder Georgia is blue

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 08, 2021, 02:51:29 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 02:46:36 PM

no wonder Georgia is blue

LMAO, and there's our problem.  Someone says they're going to "believe what logic and experience and fact dictates," and you reply with this.  
You are the problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 08, 2021, 03:17:52 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2021, 02:38:20 PM

It is in this case. Florida has not touched its rainy day fund at all through this thing, and will not be getting a "blue state" bailout from Biden.

I'm very pissed that my money will still be going to f'ing Illinois even though I don't live there (fled there).

Desantis has done a fantastic job!  Proof is the 1000 new residents a day florida is gaining, the economic boon, and the attempts by CNN to disparage him while not covering Cuomos two major scandals.  😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 08, 2021, 03:24:27 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2021, 12:30:58 PM

None that have been good.

What- don’t you like allowing boys to dominate girls sports?

Are you afraid of illegal immigrants entering our country who have tested positive for covid?

you picky SOB.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 03:57:47 PM

12 states sue President Biden over "social cost" calculation

this should be interesting

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/biden-lawsuit-climate-executive-order-federal-regulatory-power

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/542149-12-states-sue-biden-over-calculation-of-climate-impacts-in

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2021, 04:14:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 08, 2021, 02:43:01 PM

The missile attack in Saudi Arabia had a greater impact on oil prices, short term, for a day.  Oil companies do not control oil prices, they wish they did.  OPEC TRIES to control oil prices, that is their function, and even they struggle to manage it.

This is clearly a supply-demand issue.

exactly, oil companies control the price of gasoline.  They own the refineries.

when there's a missle attack or 911 happened, gas prices soared w/o any supply and demand difference in one day or one week.

they look for "opportunities"
headlines such as shutdowns of keystone pipeline or no drilling on federal land are simple opportunities

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2021, 04:48:12 PM

the blaze might not be the most reliable source..............

Considering that OPEC has raised oil production, one may expect worldwide oil prices to drop.

But Hofmeister told Fox Business host Maria Bartiromo that Biden's climate policies are offsetting the effects of the global oil market because they hamper domestic energy production.

"The reason gasoline is coming back up is we've been in a shutdown period for many of the refineries, and so that puts a squeeze on what's available in terms of final product," Hofmeister said.

"But there's something else that's going on that's more subtle. What that is, is that the industry, the producers, are practicing serious capital discipline and they're not roaring back to produce more oil. And also, they're getting squeezed by the administration," Hofmeister continued.

Hofmeister explained that Biden's policies have created an environment of fear that drives up oil prices.

"So the ban on leasing — the prohibition on new leases from the Biden administration — that's going to create a psychology in the industry of, 'There's going to be less available,' and the psychology drives the pricing as well," Hofmeister said.

"As long as we see this hostile administration, we're going to have a problem with prices," he added.


https://www.theblaze.com/news/former-oil-exec-biden-policies-skyrocketing-gas-prices?utm_content=buffer602b9&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=fb-glennbeck&fbclid=IwAR1ptR9oTFKWV4e33aVhyIXh5OJ-UT86LyD_HoPFDs9KFmToi8Xsvt49ZjY (https://www.theblaze.com/news/former-oil-exec-biden-policies-skyrocketing-gas-prices?utm_content=buffer602b9&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=fb-glennbeck&fbclid=IwAR1ptR9oTFKWV4e33aVhyIXh5OJ-UT86LyD_HoPFDs9KFmToi8Xsvt49ZjY)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2021, 05:00:06 PM

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-biden-drilling/big-u-s-oil-drillers-have-federal-permits-to-mute-effect-of-any-biden-ban-idUSKBN29Q1S5

The price of gasoline very tightly correlates with the price of oil.  The US produces about 19% of the worlds oil, and about 10% is from Federal lands.  The ban could have some impact in a year or more.

It will shift some production to places like Texas.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2021, 05:16:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 08, 2021, 05:00:06 PM

The price of gasoline very tightly correlates with the price of oil.  The US produces about 19% of the worlds oil, and about 10% is from Federal lands.  The ban could have some impact in a year or more.

It will shift some production to places like Texas.

until a refinery blows up or goes off line because of a hurricane or some such
someone wanted to build a new refinery 40 miles from here.  Activists shut it down.
was rumored to have caused the local gas prices to be 10-20% lower

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 05:17:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 08, 2021, 05:00:06 PM

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-biden-drilling/big-u-s-oil-drillers-have-federal-permits-to-mute-effect-of-any-biden-ban-idUSKBN29Q1S5

The price of gasoline very tightly correlates with the price of oil.  The US produces about 19% of the worlds oil, and about 10% is from Federal lands.  The ban could have some impact in a year or more.

It will shift some production to places like Texas.

what will have a greater impact is not issuing permits

but after giving this a little thought I still think Im right but will admit it may be a little early to find fault

100% with our President

Lets just say he is doing absolutely nothing to encourage oil production

so Im willing to wait until oil hits $100/barrel which will happen before the end of the year

when that happens and gasoline is $3.50/gal I will bring this up again

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 05:19:35 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 08, 2021, 05:16:08 PM

until a refinery blows up or goes off line because of a hurricane or some such
someone wanted to build a new refinery 40 miles from here.  Activists shut it down.
was rumored to have caused the local gas prices to be 10-20% lower

the town I grew up in Texas City has oil refineries

all we had to worry about was it blowing up which happened more then once

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2021, 05:22:27 PM

yup, I was going to be 40 miles and a state line away

the folks that were within a mile or two didn't have the stomach for it.

whiners

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2021, 05:29:28 PM

https://gaspricesexplained.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/diesel-gasoline-crude-prices-move-together-092019-f-1320x881.jpg

Supply

Demand

Global

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 05:38:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 08, 2021, 05:29:28 PM

https://gaspricesexplained.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/diesel-gasoline-crude-prices-move-together-092019-f-1320x881.jpg

Supply

Demand

Global

supply - Biden shuts us down

demand - will go way up after pandemic

global - other countries especially OPEC will do whatever they want now that the big boy has been castrated

the short of it is that we will no longer be energy independent because our production is way down

Again when I see Biden do one thing to help the petroleum industry I'll change my mind

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2021, 05:41:22 PM

The impact of Biden on US production is negligible.  In two years, it will increase to very slight.

Do the numbers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 05:45:36 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 08, 2021, 05:41:22 PM

The impact of Biden on US production is negligible.  In two years, it will increase to very slight.

Do the numbers.

the word slight is our disagreement

to me going from independent to dependent is more then slight

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2021, 05:51:23 PM

The numbers do not support any thought of becoming dependent any time the foreseeable.  The Biden move is optics, not substance.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=46476

https://www.statista.com/statistics/264026/projections-of-us-oil-production/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 05:59:46 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 08, 2021, 05:51:23 PM

The numbers do not support any thought of becoming dependent any time the foreseeable.  The Biden move is optics, not substance.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=46476

https://www.statista.com/statistics/264026/projections-of-us-oil-production/

one observation is that the charts do show a slight increase in production but no where near the level it was pre pandemic

so it looks like were going to coast along almost flat

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2021, 06:23:20 PM

time will tell

we have almost 4 years

who was in office a few years ago when gasoline was $3.80/gallon?

I always heard it was because of the Bush's oil buddies in Texas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2021, 07:05:34 PM

Look at both demand and supply.  Demand longer term will decline as EVs take a greater share of the market.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2021, 07:13:32 PM

I'm looking forward to 99 cent per gallon gas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 08, 2021, 07:31:52 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 03:57:47 PM

12 states sue President Biden over "social cost" calculation

this should be interesting

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/biden-lawsuit-climate-executive-order-federal-regulatory-power

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/542149-12-states-sue-biden-over-calculation-of-climate-impacts-in

Will be interested to see how much of this is real, how much is stunt. Smells like a stunt, but I suppose we'll see. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 08, 2021, 07:36:31 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 02:07:08 PM

there cant be too much debate

Biden shut down production on Federal land and has stopped issuing exploration drilling permits

the price of oil and gasoline has increased accordingly

no debate required

From June of 2014 to Jan of 2015, Oil prices fell by half. Was this because the president greatly expanded oil production? No. 

This is silly. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 07:39:01 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 08, 2021, 07:31:52 PM

Will be interested to see how much of this is real, how much is stunt. Smells like a stunt, but I suppose we'll see.

I think the states main case centers around only congress is supposed to pass laws involving money
and Biden is doing an end run by establishing what rates various agencies will use as a basis to charge states

but yes it should be interesting 
I mean if he can do that whats to stop him from coming out with new income tax rates

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 08, 2021, 07:39:35 PM

Badge, I'm not gonna quote that article that came in formatted badly, but if we're gonna get mad at the mean ole media, let's not be quoting sketchy blogs out here fluffing people by way of summarizing WSJ opinion pieces. Like, we can just talk about the original opinion piece. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 07:40:47 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 08, 2021, 07:36:31 PM

From June of 2014 to Jan of 2015, Oil prices fell by half. Was this because the president greatly expanded oil production? No.

This is silly.

no its because he removed various restrictions on exploration and well development

some of this included fracking as well and increased the supply domestically 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 08, 2021, 07:45:40 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 07:39:01 PM

I think the states main case centers around only congress is supposed to pass laws involving money
and Biden is doing an end run by establishing what rates various agencies will use as a basis to charge states

but yes it should be interesting
I mean if he can do that whats to stop him from coming out with new income tax rates

Ahhh, looks closer. They're suing him for attaching numerical estimates that are supposed to guide policy. They worry it will be used to justify something involving money. That seems ... stunt-ish, but I'll wait for someone non-crazy with a legal background to weigh in more. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 08, 2021, 07:46:20 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 07:40:47 PM

no its because he removed various restrictions on exploration and well development

some of this included fracking as well and increased the supply domestically

The president in 2014 removed restrictions on exploration?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 08:05:29 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 08, 2021, 07:46:20 PM

The president in 2014 removed restrictions on exploration?

not sure if Obama did anything like that but if he did it was not even close to the steps Trump took

I seem to remember OPEC increasing production to derive prices down to run some of the oil shell guys out of business

maybe thats also part of it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 08, 2021, 10:46:46 PM

Longhorn:  says something wrong
Multiple posters:  you're wrong, listen and learn more
Longhorn:  I still think I'm right
Multiple posters:  tries to explain/teach further
Longhorn:  I'm so right!
Multiple posters:  :banghead:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 08, 2021, 10:56:33 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 08, 2021, 08:05:29 PM

not sure if Obama did anything like that but if he did it was not even close to the steps Trump took

I seem to remember OPEC increasing production to derive prices down to run some of the oil shell guys out of business

maybe thats also part of it

Correct. And yet, oil prices plummeted on his watch. 

And the reason is ... oil prices are very lightly impacted by the choices a president make and they are certianly not highly reactive as compared to big things like say a massive economic bounce back (which likewise is mostly not to a president's credit)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 09, 2021, 01:11:30 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 08, 2021, 10:46:46 PM

Longhorn:  says something wrong
Multiple posters:  you're wrong, listen and learn more
Longhorn:  I still think I'm right
Multiple posters:  tries to explain/teach further
Longhorn:  I'm so right!
Multiple posters:  :banghead:

OAM I feel its necessary to point out the fact that youre an asshole of the highest caliber 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsHEHSrMDU0

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 09, 2021, 01:26:43 AM

For posting a summary?  Mkay.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 09, 2021, 08:39:20 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 08, 2021, 02:43:36 PM

I doubt I'd use papyrus in all-caps for being average. 

The writer used whatever font he chose. He was reporting on how Florida performed versus the lockdown states.

Florida performed fantastic, without killing its businesses, destroying young people, and it was done with a far older population than California.

Florida also concentrated on protecting its nursing homes, rather than murder the residents.

It was all done without touching the rainy day fund.

This is not average. This is A+.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 09, 2021, 08:57:41 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 08, 2021, 07:36:31 PM

From June of 2014 to Jan of 2015, Oil prices fell by half. Was this because the president greatly expanded oil production? No.

This is silly.

Well to be fair it was at an average of 3.73 here in Ohio.And for some reason I remember discussing this with Gatorama at the time as he thought it might go over 4.I forgot what he did but he was much more on top of economical  complexities than I.Not sure how much more the Barons could squeeze out economy and it did fall to half for a whole 2 weeks(1.89) but wasn't consitently that.Then it climbed back to between 2.50-3.00 for 9 months.That's where we are here in Ohio right now and that was almost 7yrs ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 09:47:10 AM

The US produces 19% of the global oil supply, ten percent of that comes from Federal land.

It will be a small factor in 2-3 years.  Exploration will shift to places like Texas.  Wyoming et al. Will suffer.  This will do zip for climate change.

The Canadian oil will also get refined.  It will be shipped by rail, more costly and dangerous than by pipeline.  Optics, not substance.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 09, 2021, 09:50:50 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 09, 2021, 01:26:43 AM

For posting a summary?  Mkay.

nope for being just a general asshole 24/7

you rarely have anything to offer but ridicule and sarcasm

try being a little more decent to other posters and you might

be surprised at how well you will be received

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 09, 2021, 09:54:20 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 09:47:10 AM

 Optics, not substance.

Huh?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 09:56:45 AM

Most of politics is about optics, not substance.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 09, 2021, 10:04:55 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 09:56:45 AM

Most of politics is about optics, not substance. 

it would be nice if these optics would help the US instead of hurting it

the border situation has gotten way out of hand which is another example of optics

being very bad for the US

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 09, 2021, 10:19:14 AM

From what I've observed, mostly the people who cite "optics" are the people whose guy didn't win.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 09, 2021, 10:38:22 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 09:56:45 AM

Most of politics is about optics, not substance. 

https://twitter.com/GOPLeader/status/1368011754425483265?s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 09, 2021, 10:42:57 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 09, 2021, 10:38:22 AM

https://twitter.com/GOPLeader/status/1368011754425483265?s=19

😂😂.   You like that “I am Sam”.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 09, 2021, 10:43:40 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 09, 2021, 10:38:22 AM

https://twitter.com/GOPLeader/status/1368011754425483265?s=19

we have almost all of the Dr Seuss books

and now thanks to optics they are worth a lot more then they were

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 09, 2021, 11:14:06 AM

optics

the border....

kids were being held in cages before Trump, During Trump, and even now, after Trump

illegals were coming across the border before Trump, during Trump, and after Trump

a few more or a few less possibly.  Perhaps all illegals coming across while Trump was in office the past few months were tested for COVID and those that were positive were turned back.  I doubt it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 09, 2021, 11:17:20 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 09, 2021, 10:42:57 AM

😂😂.  You like that “I am Sam”. 

I'm more of a Sam I Am

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 09, 2021, 11:20:27 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 09, 2021, 11:14:06 AM

kids were being held in cages before Trump, During Trump, and even now, after Trump

this is true, but it is missing context. The Obama administration built the "cages" and had separated children from adults, but only in certain cases. Trump administration applied a "zero tolerance" policy and separated all kids from adults. This policy was short lived and eventually they went back to the Obama administration policy- but it happened. Can't change history. Both policies are seriously f'ed up, Trump's zero tolerance even more so than Obama's.

The US should really stop meddling in the affairs of Central and South America and stop destroying those countries which only leads to mass immigration from those countries into the US. Maybe if we didn't you know, make those countries into shitholes the people there wouldn't be fleeing to come here? What if we actually tried to invest in those countries and help them develop. What an idea!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 11:26:09 AM

The governmnents a down there often are criminal enterprises.  I think Belize and Costa Rica are exceptions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 09, 2021, 11:26:27 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 09, 2021, 11:20:27 AM

this is true, but it is missing context. The Obama administration built the "cages" and had separated children from adults, but only in certain cases. Trump administration applied a "zero tolerance" policy and separated all kids from adults. This policy was short lived and eventually they went back to the Obama administration policy- but it happened. Can't change history. Both policies are seriously f'ed up, Trump's zero tolerance even more so than Obama's.

context means lesser of two evils as is the case with politics

at times, depending on their "goals" or want to throw crap on the party on the other side of the aisle, both Dems and Reps build walls or put kids in cages or whatever.

then a while later when the "other" party does the same thing, there's outrage.

and the media somehow ignores the context and the history and jumps on the story to divide the country again and again


it's mind numbing 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 09, 2021, 11:27:27 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 09:47:10 AM

The US produces 19% of the global oil supply, ten percent of that comes from Federal land.

It will be a small factor in 2-3 years.  Exploration will shift to places like Texas.  Wyoming et al. Will suffer.  This will do zip for climate change.

The Canadian oil will also get refined.  It will be shipped by rail, more costly and dangerous than by pipeline.  Optics, not substance.

Oil is eventually mostly going bye bye. Sooner than later.

GM is only selling electric cars and trucks by 2035, and by 2030 it will be illegal in China- the world's largest autos market- to sell gasoline powered vehicles.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 09, 2021, 11:29:27 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 11:26:09 AM

The governmnents a down there often are criminal enterprises.  I think Belize and Costa Rica are exceptions.

In case you haven't noticed, the US loves to support criminal enterprise governments around the world. They often play ball the best with the US when they don't have this pesky thing called the people to answer to.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 11:39:15 AM

It is tough for us to invest there because of this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 09, 2021, 11:43:46 AM

First it was Dr Seuss now its Pepe Le Pew

https://deadline.com/2021/03/pepe-le-pew-space-jam-2-new-york-times-rape-culture-controversy-1234708688/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 09, 2021, 11:52:33 AM

I'm glad I'm too old to get worked up over Mr. Potato Head, or Pepe or Doc Suess or rainbow flags or toppling statues, or other stuff that really doesn't affect me.


My life is too short to spend time being offended by such trivial crap

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 09, 2021, 11:56:21 AM

and now for something important to old men........

FORE!!!

searching for Birdies and Budweisers!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 09, 2021, 11:57:42 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 09, 2021, 11:52:33 AM

I'm glad I'm too old to get worked up over Mr. Potato Head, or Pepe or Doc Suess or rainbow flags or toppling statues, or other stuff that really doesn't affect me.


My life is too short to spend time being offended by such trivial crap

At your age?

What, are you old enough to have had the Mister Potato head where you had to stick the pieces into an actual potato? O0



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICGrjmJouWA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 09, 2021, 12:01:13 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 09, 2021, 11:56:21 AM

and now for something important to old men........

FORE!!!

searching for Birdies and Budweisers!

you didnt hear?

they want to ban golf

only played by white supremacist drunks

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 09, 2021, 12:06:05 PM

The want to cancel the macroswill too. They cater to hillbillies, walmart shoppers and Nascar fans. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 09, 2021, 12:21:53 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 09, 2021, 10:19:14 AM

From what I've observed, mostly the people who cite "optics" are the people whose guy didn't win.

On the contrary, I think that's 100% backwards.

We spent the last 4 years with the left saying that everything Trump did was destroying the nation, while the right said "eh, it's not all that big of a deal; why are you overreacting?"

We spent the 8 years before that, and will spend the next 4 [at least] years with the right saying that everything Obama/Biden did/do will destroy the nation, while the left will say "eh, it's not all that big of a deal; why are you overreacting?"

Just look at this thread. Biden has destroyed America's oil independence and is responsible for an enormous rise in oil prices over the last 3 months, while simultaneously infecting the rest of the nation with COVID brought in entirely by illegal immigrants, all while turning American into a vassal state of China--and he's not even the real decisionmaker! He's taking his marching orders from Kamala, AOC, and the "squad"! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 12:29:54 PM

When the country faces very real problems that are basically insurmountable, politicians focus on OPTICS instead.  Ted Cruz introduces a term limits amendment every year in the Senate.  It has zero chance of passage, he does it for optics.  Biden shuts down the XL pipeline project to "cure climate change".  The two topics are unrelated of course, but the optics sound good.  He stops new leases for fracking on Federal lands, sounds great, but 90% of fracking is on nonFederal land, so in  reality it affected very little (and companies have leases 2-3-4 years out anyway).  Congress passes some massive give away as the economy is recovering, optics, probably with an undesirable end result.  Folks want "common sense gun controls", who wouldn't?  Optics, the vast majority of gun crime is committed with handguns.  The vast majority of sales at gun  shows are by FFLs and have BG checks.  Children in cages at the border?  Optics.  Substance behind the story, but the photo passed around to blame one guy was optics.

The media abet this because the salacious gets clicks.  "We" allow it because of confirmation bias and a lack of checking further into headlines.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 09, 2021, 12:40:41 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 09, 2021, 12:21:53 PM

On the contrary, I think that's 100% backwards.

We spent the last 4 years with the left saying that everything Trump did was destroying the nation, while the right said "eh, it's not all that big of a deal; why are you overreacting?"

We spent the 8 years before that, and will spend the next 4 [at least] years with the right saying that everything Obama/Biden did/do will destroy the nation, while the left will say "eh, it's not all that big of a deal; why are you overreacting?"

Just look at this thread. Biden has destroyed America's oil independence and is responsible for an enormous rise in oil prices over the last 3 months, while simultaneously infecting the rest of the nation with COVID brought in entirely by illegal immigrants, all while turning American into a vassal state of China--and he's not even the real decisionmaker! He's taking his marching orders from Kamala, AOC, and the "squad"!

That's exactly my point.  The members of the losing team rant and rave and ball their hands into fists and pound the table and point out the horrible "optics" of whatever the winning administration does.  

The "winners" aren't worried about optics at all.  They're getting their way.

"Optics" are nothing more than people who aren't getting their way, complaining about it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 12:43:39 PM

For me, "optics" means doing a thing that has little or no actual value but sounds and looks good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 12:45:53 PM

Midtown Atlanta apartment tower near Piedmont Park could be tallest in several years - Atlanta Business Chronicle (bizjournals.com) (https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2021/03/08/residential-towers-midtown-atlanta.html?ana=TRUEANTHEMFB_AT&csrc=6398&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A Trending)

Condos apparently, proposed, near me.  Wouldn't impact my view of the park fortunately.

You pay quite a bit extra to be on higher floors for the same unit.  And you can wake up to something like this being built blocking your views.  We looked at two condos 6 years back that now stare out at another building, they had a nice view at the time.

The city is also rebuilding major streets cutting one lane of traffic to make a lane for bikes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 01:09:54 PM

Ford Mustang Mach-E Proves It's A Winner In 456-Mile Tahoe Road Trip (insideevs.com) (https://insideevs.com/reviews/492865/ford-mustang-mach-e-trip-tahoe/?fbclid=IwAR2Tb0vtXDtUWvjYmB6tlPmkhqDzRAEYr-qZiffGufmt2EdErsDA6TMPJlU)

Interesting, rather pricey, but interesting, to me.

I think EVs are still a compromise solution, but it's changing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 09, 2021, 01:12:54 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 09, 2021, 12:01:13 PM

you didnt hear?

they want to ban golf

only played by white supremacist drunks

Yeah, you're a victim, alright.  Poor you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 01:20:00 PM

I try not to get bothered by stuff that doesn't affect me and I can't do anything about anyway.

Apathy is the path to a longer life.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 09, 2021, 01:22:10 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 12:43:39 PM

For me, "optics" means doing a thing that has little or no actual value but sounds and looks good.

That's propaganda.

"Optics" are solely about perception of an action.  People who don't like that action, insist that the "optics" are bad.  People who support an action, look on and say "fine by me, I have no issues, optics look fine."

"Optics" are the most useless metric anyone could ever possibly use to gauge the results of an action.  "Optics" are self-fulfilling, those that have an agenda and a desire to find fault with an action, will.  Those that have no desire to find fault with an action, will not.  Really is just that simple.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 09, 2021, 01:23:23 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 09, 2021, 12:40:41 PM

That's exactly my point.  The members of the losing team rant and rave and ball their hands into fists and pound the table and point out the horrible "optics" of whatever the winning administration does. 

The "winners" aren't worried about optics at all.  They're getting their way.

"Optics" are nothing more than people who aren't getting their way, complaining about it. 

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 12:43:39 PM

For me, "optics" means doing a thing that has little or no actual value but sounds and looks good.

Yeah, I think the debate is the difference between how CD and I are using the term relative to 94...

I view "optics" as style over substance. You do something that gets headlines but makes no meaningful difference to solve a problem, claim victory, and then move on because you've placated your base without upsetting the ACTUAL apple cart--the economy.

My view is that the losing party actually stating that the winner's "optics" will actually result in all the meaningful differences that the winners never even intended, with disastrous results. Thus they're saying that the policy isn't optics, i.e. style; rather it's substance. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 09, 2021, 01:26:21 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 01:20:00 PM

I try not to get bothered by stuff that doesn't affect me and I can't do anything about anyway.

Apathy is the path to a longer life.

You guys probably haven't been clued into this, but my wife's social circle is arguing over the outrage about the Meghan Markle interview that aired Sunday...

My take on that is that we won a war that ending in 1787 that basically says we don't have to care about the British royal family. I don't understand the fascination, in the first case, but then I don't understand wasting energy on outrage over it either.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 09, 2021, 01:28:02 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 09, 2021, 01:23:23 PM

Yeah, I think the debate is the difference between how CD and I are using the term relative to 94...

I view "optics" as style over substance. You do something that gets headlines but makes no meaningful difference to solve a problem, claim victory, and then move on because you've placated your base without upsetting the ACTUAL apple cart--the economy.

My view is that the losing party actually stating that the winner's "optics" will actually result in all the meaningful differences that the winners never even intended, with disastrous results. Thus they're saying that the policy isn't optics, i.e. style; rather it's substance.

Optics are solely about perception-- indeed that's the very origin of the term if you think about it.

Losing team is always going to claim the "optics" of the winner's actions are bad.  That's how I constantly see it being used in the media, social media, etc.

An even more recent but related phrase I hear these days is "That's a bad look."  Which only means "Regardless of the outcome of the action, positive or negative, my perception is that you look bad doing it, for no reason other than I disagree with you or I don't like you."

Anyway, optics is a relatively new term, only introduced in the past couple decades as a way of emphasizing perception over reality.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 01:30:21 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 09, 2021, 01:23:23 PM

My view is that the losing party actually stating that the winner's "optics" will actually result in all the meaningful differences that the winners never even intended, with disastrous results. Thus they're saying that the policy isn't optics, i.e. style; rather it's substance.

Agree with this.  One side does something that in reality is pretty minor, and the other side claims it's calamitous.

Meanwhile, real issues get ignored, or at most treated with more optics.  Real issues are tough to solve.

Take the XL pipeline.  That oil is going to market anyway, by rail.  It's not as if Canada is going to leave it in the ground.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 01:31:54 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 09, 2021, 01:28:02 PM

Anyway, optics is a relatively new term, only introduced in the past couple decades as a way of emphasizing perception over reality.

(https://i.imgur.com/qDxaSPb.png)

It's an old term,  they just spelled it differently.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 09, 2021, 01:35:09 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 01:30:21 PM

Agree with this.  One side does something that in reality is pretty minor, and the other side claims it's calamitous.

Meanwhile, real issues get ignored, or at most treated with more optics.  Real issues are tough to solve.

Take the XL pipeline.  That oil is going to market anyway, by rail.  It's not as if Canada is going to leave it in the ground.

I don't disagree that this occurs, I just don't see it used this way in the mainstream.

"Optics" are typically used to describe an action that one group is politically or financially opposed to as a matter of platform, policy, or agenda-- regardless of the objective outcome of that action.

"Exxon just announced they're gong to start drilling in 300 new locations, despite their tanker just dumping 50,000 gallons of oil into the Gulf.  Man the optics look really bad."

Regardless of whether or not Exxon's drilling is a good thing or a bad thing, and even though the tanker is completely unrelated, people who cite "optics" are more concerned with the superficial appearance of things, than they are with the objective outcomes.  And it's entirely related to their opinion of the action itself-- people who think "that's a bad look for Exxon" were already opposed to Exxon doing any more drilling, anyway.  The tanker disaster is completely unrelated, but it allows them to frame an unrelated issue in a way that matches their desires/agenda.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 09, 2021, 01:43:25 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 09, 2021, 01:26:21 PM

You guys probably haven't been clued into this, but my wife's social circle is arguing over the outrage about the Meghan Markle interview that aired Sunday...

My take on that is that we won a war that ending in 1787 that basically says we don't have to care about the British royal family. I don't understand the fascination, in the first case, but then I don't understand wasting energy on outrage over it either.

that subject gets a big ol yawn from me

I dont understand why Americans give a hoot about this

so a newly married couple dosent get along with the husbands in laws so what

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 09, 2021, 01:45:49 PM

94... Do you perceive the term "optics" as inherently negative? I.e. it's hard to have "good optics"?

I agree with you that optics are all about perception. But in my view it goes both ways. Biden stopping new leases on fracking on federal land has great "optics" amongst his supporters. Whether its effects in reality are substantial or not, it makes him look like he's doing something good for the environment. 

I feel like 320 wasn't attacking the "optics" of the move--he was legitimately blaming that policy on a significant rise in oil and gas prices. Hence it had nothing to do with him on how that policy made Biden look, it had to do with the real effects. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 01:55:24 PM

Politicians like optics because it's usually a lot easier than solving problems.

Take Social Security for example.  Solutions are fairly easy, they would have been easier 20 years ago than now.  But, no one wants to touch it now because of optics, save a few who want to lift the cap (which has other implications obviously).

Or take climate change.  We are back in the Paris Agreement, as if that DOES anything, beyond some paperwork.  Optics.  Trump pulled out.  Optics.  Doing something REAL would be nearly impossible, so we have agreements.

Immigration reform, each side depicts the other in extreme terms to create the optical illusion they are bad.

Just about everything, to me, is optics.  Gun control, voting "reforms" in Georgia, energy policy, .... Exxon ads about getting fuel from algae.  Their tech guys know why this is a bad idea.  Carbon capture.  The best carbon capture things are plants.  But when they die you need to bury them so they don't degrade.  I lived through the era of landfills reaching capacity.  It was malarkey.  It was known malarkey.  But optics played.  I bet one could review the MAJOR issues of the day back in the past and realize much of it was fabricated optics and meant little.

Blend all that with news coverage of "stars" of one sort or another saying this or that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 09, 2021, 01:58:02 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 09, 2021, 01:45:49 PM

94... Do you perceive the term "optics" as inherently negative? I.e. it's hard to have "good optics"?

I agree with you that optics are all about perception. But in my view it goes both ways. Biden stopping new leases on fracking on federal land has great "optics" amongst his supporters. Whether its effects in reality are substantial or not, it makes him look like he's doing something good for the environment.

I feel like 320 wasn't attacking the "optics" of the move--he was legitimately blaming that policy on a significant rise in oil and gas prices. Hence it had nothing to do with him on how that policy made Biden look, it had to do with the real effects.

you are correct


whether or not Biden's actions has a big affect on oil prices is not my main concern

his actions can only hurt America in the long run

why would anyone want to hamper oil production

there may be a time in the future when we can replace oil but that day is not now

to me its very similar to the defund the police movement

everything is great until you need the oil and dont have it without paying up the gazoo for it

using domestically produced oil is much cheaper then importing it

Think about it the first two things Biden does is reduce oil production and open the southern border

allowing covid carriers into the US

Why

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 09, 2021, 02:17:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 01:55:24 PM

Politicians like optics because it's usually a lot easier than solving problems.

Take Social Security for example.  Solutions are fairly easy, they would have been easier 20 years ago than now.  But, no one wants to touch it now because of optics, save a few who want to lift the cap (which has other implications obviously).

The issue is that the "solutions" are raising taxes or cutting benefits. There's no other. The population is aging and living longer, so you either need more money or to ration the money you're bringing in. 

For a politician, how are raising taxes or cutting benefits "easy" lol?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 02:21:25 PM

Fairly easy.  You cut benefits on folks not yet there, folks 50 and under.  They care less because it's off in the future.  

You could also raise taxes "on the wealthy" of course, to the extent that raises much revenue.  That changes the nature of the program of course.

You also could invest the entire SSTF in Bitcoin and Tesla.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 09, 2021, 02:25:58 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 09, 2021, 01:45:49 PM

94... Do you perceive the term "optics" as inherently negative? I.e. it's hard to have "good optics"?

I agree with you that optics are all about perception. But in my view it goes both ways. Biden stopping new leases on fracking on federal land has great "optics" amongst his supporters. Whether its effects in reality are substantial or not, it makes him look like he's doing something good for the environment.

I feel like 320 wasn't attacking the "optics" of the move--he was legitimately blaming that policy on a significant rise in oil and gas prices. Hence it had nothing to do with him on how that policy made Biden look, it had to do with the real effects.

In my observation, people citing "optics" are nearly always criticizing.  Biden's base doesn't view his move as something that is "good for optics," rather they view it as the right thing to do that will get results-- even if it's nothing more than window dressing.

Same thing for Trump when he was in office-- his base didn't discuss his actions in terms of optics because they believed the actions were effective.

People citing "optics" are almost invariably trying to cast some action from the opposition as lacking substance and being "a bad look." 

I just don't really see people saying, "Those optics were great!" because if they think something is great, they're not going to WANT to imply that there's little substance to it.  See what I mean?  Your experience may differ from mine, but this is what I see out there in the world.

Personally I think any discussion of "optics" are laughable because it's a tacit admission that there's no substance.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 09, 2021, 02:31:13 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 09, 2021, 01:26:21 PM

You guys probably haven't been clued into this, but my wife's social circle is arguing over the outrage about the Meghan Markle interview that aired Sunday...

My take on that is that we won a war that ending in 1787 that basically says we don't have to care about the British royal family. I don't understand the fascination, in the first case, but then I don't understand wasting energy on outrage over it either.

People care about a lot of stupid things.  I don't view the British royals any differently than I do the Kardashians.  People obsess over it for reasons I will never understand.

But, it doesn't affect me at all in my own life, so it's also easy to just shake my head and move along, on the rare occasions someone actually attempts to engage me over silly stuff like that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 02:33:21 PM

I bring up college football when someone raise that sort of "news".

"I dunno, do you think that Bama QB is going to be as great as advertised?"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 09, 2021, 02:45:56 PM

Yes, the royals are an utter mystery to me.  People are obsessed and they don't do anything.  It's mystifying.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 02:55:42 PM

Many care about what athlete says, rich folks, movie stars, it's no different I think.  If a corporate CEO says something of substance, I care about it, or might.

Politicians SAY a lot of things, I think often as not, what they say doesn't really mean that much.  It might, but often it doesn't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 09, 2021, 02:59:51 PM

Yeah I feel the same way about celebrities of any kind.  I like watching athletes perform in their sports.  I like watching actors in movies.  I like hearing bands and singers perform.  I like reading the literary works of various authors.

But I don't care at all what they say or do in their private lives.  It is irrelevant to my life.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 03:01:25 PM

Why Big Oil Isn’t Worried About Biden’s Executive Orders | OilPrice.com (https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Why-Big-Oil-Isnt-Worried-About-Bidens-Executive-Orders.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 03:05:35 PM

My ex was intensely interested in various award shows, the Emmys etc.  She wanted to see each movie herself to have her opinion.  I wasn't interested and am not today of course.  I might be a bit interested in who won a Nobel, even if it isn't me.

The HOA meetings often devolve into something about the color paint to be used in the hallways, whether it's a neutral light beige, or a more neutral and lighter beige.

Maybe little in our lives really matters, but 'we' try to gin up something to make it seem to be a thing.  A person  truly apathetic about everything is probably clinically depressed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 09, 2021, 03:18:51 PM

I stopped watching the Academy Awards 2 years ago as they had become a political platform

Its a shame because they used to have a very entertaining show

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 03:27:06 PM

I may have watched some part of them circa 1980 or so.  Maybe.  It's like wine ratings.  This wine got 90 points, and this one got 91, so I'll but it instead.

Wine is often about optics, not taste.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 09, 2021, 03:27:17 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 09, 2021, 02:31:13 PM

People care about a lot of stupid things.  I don't view the British royals any differently than I do the Kardashians. 

Testify 94 Testify,nothing wrong with the commoners but their aristocracy can eat a bucket of F***

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 09, 2021, 03:29:48 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 09, 2021, 03:18:51 PM

I stopped watching the Academy Awards 2 years ago as they had become a political platform

Its a shame because they used to have a very entertaining show

I stopped watching it in '81 when Chariots of Fire won - it wasn't close at the box office with some obscure flick called "Raiders of the Lost Ark" breaking the gate

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 09, 2021, 03:37:44 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on March 09, 2021, 12:06:05 PM

The want to cancel the macroswill too. They cater to hillbillies, walmart shoppers and Nascar fans.

You left out polygamists in Utah...just sayin'

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 09, 2021, 04:20:16 PM

Sadly- much of what goes on is for optics.  

Things being cancelled due to cancel culture are most often achieving or changing nothing- but it makes for appropriate optics.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 04:21:45 PM

Yeah, the Dr. Seuss estate said they wouldn't publish six of his books, or something like that.  OK, fine, never heard of those anyway.

BOOK BURNING!!! THE BIBLE IS NEXT!!!!!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 09, 2021, 05:34:55 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 09, 2021, 12:40:41 PM

That's exactly my point.  The members of the losing team rant and rave and ball their hands into fists and pound the table and point out the horrible "optics" of whatever the winning administration does. 

The "winners" aren't worried about optics at all.  They're getting their way.

"Optics" are nothing more than people who aren't getting their way, complaining about it. 

There are so many posts, I'm not going back through them (so this might already be covered), but I'd make the slight side point that optics might go a little beyond that in one key sense. 

Sometimes optics are about side-stepping something. Like I had a convo with a friend about some misstep that allowed for ranting, raving, pounded tables (some on this very board), and said "Well that person that you and I nominally support should not have don't that because of optics." Like the thing the pol did was highly immaterial to anything, but it looked very bad and caught them a raft of shit they didn't need. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 09, 2021, 05:44:16 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 09, 2021, 10:43:40 AM

we have almost all of the Dr Seuss books

and now thanks to optics they are worth a lot more then they were

That incident is the height of stupidity and really in most senses points out the hollow silliness of most of our "cancel culture" discussion. 

The man's estate pulled six books. As far as I can tell, maybe one was actually popular. They folks making the books did the "canceling." And people responded by giving the cancelers gobs of money because it made them feel smug they were "sticking it" to someone faceless group they can't identify. I suppose if giving away money gives them some good feels, that's the point of having money. 

So the books are in theory more valuable because people seem to relish being morons. 

(And of course there's the sort of funny dueling sidepoints: 1. The Dr. himself was a New Deal Democrat who had political cartoons both pro-cancelation of certain ideas and somewhat morally questionable in retrospect, and 2. The act of cancelation was long a tool of the folks now crying it, and in some spots still is)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 09, 2021, 05:46:44 PM

I'm surprised they haven't canceled Sean Connery for slapping women yet. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 09, 2021, 05:50:23 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 09, 2021, 05:34:55 PM

There are so many posts, I'm not going back through them (so this might already be covered), but I'd make the slight side point that optics might go a little beyond that in one key sense.

Sometimes optics are about side-stepping something. Like I had a convo with a friend about some misstep that allowed for ranting, raving, pounded tables (some on this very board), and said "Well that person that you and I nominally support should not have don't that because of optics." Like the thing the pol did was highly immaterial to anything, but it looked very bad and caught them a raft of shit they didn't need.

Well sure, but's really my point-- who is the person or group that's really bothering to point out how "bad" the "optics" were?  As you said, you and friend who are supporters of PoliticoX might wince a little because the situation wasn't framed in a more palatable way, but you're still not calling out PoliticoX about it.  It's your fear of the opposition doing so, that makes you wince.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 06:10:19 PM

Optics can be shaped more readily than reality, usually.  They can be shaped into something bad more easily than to something good, I think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 09, 2021, 06:50:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 03:05:35 PM

A person  truly apathetic about everything is probably clinically depressed.

It's not that I'm lazy, Bob... It's that I just don't care.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 09, 2021, 06:53:00 PM

And I'm not clinically depressed. I don't even go to clinics.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 09, 2021, 07:58:40 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 09, 2021, 05:50:23 PM

Well sure, but's really my point-- who is the person or group that's really bothering to point out how "bad" the "optics" were?  As you said, you and friend who are supporters of PoliticoX might wince a little because the situation wasn't framed in a more palatable way, but you're still not calling out PoliticoX about it.  It's your fear of the opposition doing so, that makes you wince.

I mean, my side is in control, the other side is mad, but they're not saying the optics are bad, they're saying the thing done is very bad. And I'm saying the optics are bad in essence to say it looks worse than it is. (I suppose I'm saying he shouldn't have done that because it looks bad and whatever gain there might have been was negligible)

I dunno, it seems like an imprecise framing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 09, 2021, 09:27:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 09, 2021, 04:21:45 PM

Yeah, the Dr. Seuss estate said they wouldn't publish six of his books, or something like that.  OK, fine, never heard of those anyway.

BOOK BURNING!!! THE BIBLE IS NEXT!!!!!!!

Phew!!!What a relief -  thought they'd go after the Daily Racing Form

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 09, 2021, 10:06:40 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 09, 2021, 12:01:13 PM

you didnt hear?

they want to ban golf

only played by white supremacist drunks

hear hear


youse fellers been busy this afternoon/evening

followed up golf with a trip to the Outback Steakhouse for the Melbourne, Porterhouse

was derned good in my dirt-farmer's opinion
don't know if I'm a supremacist, but I'm a white drunk

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 09, 2021, 10:43:43 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 09, 2021, 10:06:40 PM

hear hear


youse fellers been busy this afternoon/evening

followed up golf with a trip to the Outback Steakhouse for the Melbourne, Porterhouse

was derned good in my dirt-farmer's opinion
don't know if I'm a supremacist, but I'm a white drunk

well 2 out of 3 aint bad

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2021, 12:53:47 AM

America's Cup is tied 1-1 after day 1.  The team with the better start right off the line won both races.  
The Kiwis looked scary-good after race 1 - both because of their zero-errors race and the fact that they've been waiting in the wings the past few weeks.  The Italians, however, showed it's all about the start in tying it up.  I feel they have the advantage, having raced so many more times in qualifying and reaching the Cup Final.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2021, 08:11:44 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/pHB9Lqf.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 10, 2021, 08:16:27 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 09, 2021, 05:46:44 PM

I'm surprised they haven't canceled Sean Connery for slapping women yet.

that would be pretty impresive as his mortal contract got canceled last October

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 10, 2021, 09:03:04 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2021, 08:11:44 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/pHB9Lqf.png)

Any particular reason you didn't post this on the Coronavirus thread? 

;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 10, 2021, 09:09:17 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2021, 08:11:44 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/pHB9Lqf.png)

I like a good account that declares itself politically neutral, but then I read through and find it, well, not really that at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 10, 2021, 09:12:06 AM

I also find that, on graphs, I prefer to see both axes labeled with the associated units.  Maybe I'm just a weird scientist/engineer like that...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 10, 2021, 10:29:03 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 10, 2021, 09:12:06 AM

I also find that, on graphs, I prefer to see both axes labeled with the associated units.  Maybe I'm just a weird scientist/engineer like that...

You’re just a person who wants to know what the graph actually means. I’m the same way. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 10, 2021, 10:46:54 AM

Units on the Y axis wouldn't make that graph any more or less accurate/deceptive at proving a political point than leaving units off, because it's relative numbers only. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 10, 2021, 10:52:30 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 10, 2021, 10:46:54 AM

Units on the Y axis wouldn't make that graph any more or less accurate/deceptive at proving a political point than leaving units off, because it's relative numbers only.

Oh I know, but if the y-axis is 5, it tells a different story for ALL geos involved, compared to if the y-axis is 50,000.

Knowwhatimean?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2021, 10:55:45 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 10, 2021, 09:12:06 AM

I also find that, on graphs, I prefer to see both axes labeled with the associated units.  Maybe I'm just a weird scientist/engineer like that...

It's just relative. Hospitalizations per 100K.

Wisconsin and Iowa have been open. Illinois has been on lockdown.

Illinois fails.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2021, 10:56:31 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 10, 2021, 09:03:04 AM

Any particular reason you didn't post this on the Coronavirus thread?

;)

Because you would have nuked it. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 10, 2021, 11:41:03 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2021, 10:55:45 AM

It's just relative. Hospitalizations per 100K.

Wisconsin and Iowa have been open. Illinois has been on lockdown.

Illinois fails.

• Population density of Chicago: 9.8K / sq mi
• Population density of Milwaukee: 6.1K / sq mi
• Percentage of Illinois' population in Chicago: 21%
• Percentage of Wisconsin's population in Milwaukee: 10%
• Total population of Chicago metropolitan area: 9.5M

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01944363.2020.1777891

Quote

Our study is to our knowledge the first peer-reviewed publication to investigate the relationship between density and the COVID-19 spread and mortality in the United States, controlling for confounding factors. This is a perfect example of the application of structural equation modeling, as explained in the Conceptual Framework and Research Design section. Our outcome variables are COVID-19 confirmed cases and deaths per 10,000 population. We find metropolitan population to be one of the most significant predictors of infection rates, with larger metropolitan areas experiencing higher infection and higher mortality rates. We also find that after controlling for metropolitan population, county density is unrelated to the infection rate and negatively related to the mortality rate, possibly due to greater adherence to social distancing policies and practices in denser areas and better quality of health care.

These findings suggest that connectivity matters more than density in the spread of the COVID-19 pandemic. Large metropolitan areas (and megaregions) with a higher number of counties tightly linked together through economic, social, and commuting relationships are the most vulnerable to the pandemic outbreak. They are more likely to exchange tourists and businesspeople with each other and with other parts of the world, thus increasing the risk of cross-border infections.

So Chicago, an enormous metropolitan population with high density and (counting the wider metro area) being a megaregion with multiple counties tightly linked together through economic, social, and commuting relationships...

...should be compared to Wisconsin and Iowa... Why?!

Sounds like you're arguing backward from your conclusion. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2021, 11:56:11 AM

People in the most dense areas of Chicago ain't going to restaurants...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 10, 2021, 12:10:16 PM

might be working at McDonalds

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 10, 2021, 12:17:54 PM

Just curious, @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) is that study peer reviewed?  I'm not sure how to even determine that within the formatting of the printing.

I'm curious because I know someone that has repeatedly cited a ScientificAmerican article that came to the conclusion that population density was not a major contributing factor.  I'd like to offer a counter viewpoint.

Edit: D'oh!  Says so right in the first sentence, which I didn't read because I skipped down to your highlighted bits

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 10, 2021, 12:25:59 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 10, 2021, 12:17:54 PM

Just curious, @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) is that study peer reviewed?  I'm not sure how to even determine that within the formatting of the printing.

I'm curious because I know someone that has repeatedly cited a ScientificAmerican article that came to the conclusion that population density was not a major contributing factor.  I'd like to offer a counter viewpoint.

Edit: D'oh!  Says so right in the first sentence, which I didn't read because I skipped down to your highlighted bits

94... It doesn't actually say that density is the controlling factor, at least at the county level. A much bigger factor is total metropolitan population, especially in highly connected metros. 

Which of course would indicate that the Chicagoland metro area (which, tbh could include portions of NW Indiana when you count all 9.5M people) as a whole would likely to be more impacted than... Well... Anywhere in Wisconsin or Iowa because they don't have large metropolitan areas. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 10, 2021, 12:40:38 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 10, 2021, 12:25:59 PM

94... It doesn't actually say that density is the controlling factor, at least at the county level. A much bigger factor is total metropolitan population, especially in highly connected metros.

Which of course would indicate that the Chicagoland metro area (which, tbh could include portions of NW Indiana when you count all 9.5M people) as a whole would likely to be more impacted than... Well... Anywhere in Wisconsin or Iowa because they don't have large metropolitan areas.

Yeah, the original claim was that population and density were non-factors, and the context was, what happened in New York.

That didn't ring true to me, so I've been looking for any actual evidence in favor, or opposed to, that claim.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 10, 2021, 05:37:47 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2021, 10:55:45 AM

It's just relative. Hospitalizations per 100K.

Wisconsin and Iowa have been open. Illinois has been on lockdown.

Illinois fails.

I mean, yes, that’s the point of the low context graph. But I don’t know how big that jump actually is. Nor do I know what that gap between Illinois and the other states actually is. 

If it’s just relative, by my eyeball, the COVID hospitalization rate went up four or five fold in three states in like three months. Maybe I just completely missed that?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 10, 2021, 11:20:44 PM

It's our legal 3 year anniversary today, so we did crab cakes with an arugula salad, and a dry Riesling. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2021, 11:23:25 PM

A good crab cake is one of my favorite things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2021, 12:26:26 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2021, 11:23:25 PM

A good crab cake is one of my favorite things.

Super easy to make at home.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 11, 2021, 12:28:05 AM

Here in AZ, a little CAN of real crab meat is $18.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 11, 2021, 08:16:30 AM

I once had crab cakes in the White House.  They were good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 11, 2021, 08:34:35 AM

Before or after you had it sided?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 11, 2021, 09:16:13 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/6dRmbla.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 11, 2021, 10:23:10 AM

the "new" crab cake bites at Outback steakhouse are mostly cake with little crab

not recommended

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 11, 2021, 10:25:39 AM

Outback is not recommended by me for anything.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 11, 2021, 10:29:00 AM

the outback here is well managed

they do a better than average service

a salesman I know likes it and we dine there once a month or so.

I've been to others that are just bad in comparison

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 11, 2021, 10:29:39 AM

Best crab cakes by far are at Gaido's in Galveston

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2021, 10:50:44 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 11, 2021, 12:28:05 AM

Here in AZ, a little CAN of real crab meat is $18.

Costco, a 1# can of real crab meat is $20. Admittedly, that's not the cheapest thing in the world, but when you're feeding two people it's not that much. That was two pretty hefty crab cakes per person. Crab, bread crumbs, a little seasoning, arugula, parmesan, and dressing, etc, and that entire meal for two (not counting the wine) was under $30.

At a restaurant, a crab cake appetizer will often cost $15-20 by itself, and contain far less than 1/2# of crab meat. 

And like I said, it's an incredibly easy meal to make. I don't know how much cooking you do, but even if you almost never cook, you can put this together. 

Invite a date over for dinner, and you're gonna be in good shape, my friend. Impressive, "fancy", and yet not overly expensive in the grand scheme of things and really easy to prepare.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2021, 10:52:02 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 11, 2021, 10:25:39 AM

Outback is not recommended by me for anything.

I'll take the Bloomin' Onion and their bread, along with a beer, any day. 

If I served their level of steak to a guest in my own home, I'd have to commit ritual suicide in shame. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 11, 2021, 10:55:14 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2021, 10:52:02 AM

I'll take the Bloomin' Onion and their bread, along with a beer, any day.

If I served their level of steak to a guest in my own home, I'd have to commit ritual suicide in shame.

I like their grilled shrimp on the barbie appetizer as well.  The shrimp are nothing special, but the buttery garlicky shrimpy toast underneath, is delicious.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 11, 2021, 11:15:55 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2021, 10:52:02 AM

I'll take the Bloomin' Onion and their bread, along with a beer, any day.

If I served their level of steak to a guest in my own home, I'd have to commit ritual suicide in shame.

I've made their bloomin' onion and the sauce from scratch. 
A good friend was pregnant and had a craving, but didn't live anywhere near an Outback.  So I made it my mission.
Outback seems to have a little doo-hicky that cuts the onion that way, but all you have to do is cut like 90% through it like 16 ways.  It was difficult, but doable......made 2 in case the first one sucked.  Both were good, though! 
Craving satisfied. 
Good friend deed done..
.
And my point on the crab was that it was in a can.  I grew up literally getting seafood in off the boat at Miss Becky's seafood in Jacksonville.  Sponsored my Little League team one year.  Most of what we bought was still alive when we pulled into our driveway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 11, 2021, 11:30:37 AM

You can use one of those apple slicers to do the bloomin onion.  I saw it on a Tik Tok video.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 11, 2021, 11:38:31 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2021, 10:52:02 AM

I'll take the Bloomin' Onion and their bread, along with a beer, any day.

If I served their level of steak to a guest in my own home, I'd have to commit ritual suicide in shame.

Actually the Outback by us had decent steaks.A guy on our softball team worked their for a while.Some of the team ate in there and no one said it suucked.But that was almost 20 yrs back

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 11, 2021, 12:18:16 PM

steaks for this outback are boxed only a few miles away

they are not prime, but they are almost always very good

I like their broccoli with the melted cheese

They are offering a "special" beef short rib for a limited time.  It was very good as well.

I know the bartender pretty well.  I get great drinks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 11, 2021, 12:19:26 PM

I'd like to try the crab cakes at Camden Yards some afternoon

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 11, 2021, 12:38:14 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 11, 2021, 12:18:16 PM

I know the bartender pretty well.  I get great drinks.

How much could they faff up opening a BUD?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 11, 2021, 12:40:04 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 11, 2021, 12:38:14 PM

How much could they faff up opening a BUD?

Maybe he gets a PBR/High Life cocktail

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 11, 2021, 12:52:27 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2021, 10:52:02 AM

I'll take the Bloomin' Onion and their bread, along with a beer, any day.

If I served their level of steak to a guest in my own home, I'd have to commit ritual suicide in shame.

I find myself just about never eating steak at restaurants. If I'm paying that much, it'd better be DAMN good. And if it's that good, it's mostly just special occasion level.

I'll make an exception for Harris Ranch on I-5, one because they got all them cows and two because that drive is awful and a steak breaks it up. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 11, 2021, 12:58:25 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 11, 2021, 12:40:04 PM

Maybe he gets a PBR/High Life cocktail

They prolly let him rest his head under the Keg Spigot so they don't have to wash a glass

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 11, 2021, 01:01:47 PM

many times in the summer I enjoy a refreshing bombay gin & tonic

I prefer mine with extra bombay and extra lime

when I'm having a johnny walker black on the rocks after dinner, I prefer a large pour

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 11, 2021, 01:08:33 PM

Most of us can grill a pretty good steak.  I'm with those who rarely order steak out.  I try and order what I can't fix as well at home.

I've gotten to where I can fix most things at home.  We do burritos pretty often of some sort or another, often with leftovers.

The folks who lived here before us left a Weber electric grill.  I turned my nose up at it, but it turns out it generates pretty good radiant heat, better than has I think.  We can't have gas or charcoal on the deck.

Charcoal gets extremely hot with enough air.  But electric is really not bad at all.  They also left a 55" 4K TV that I moved upstairs for the wife.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 11, 2021, 01:28:54 PM

the fillet I had last night is tough to get at home

(https://i.imgur.com/KkcjmEK.jpg)


18 oz prime fillet 60-day dry aged

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 11, 2021, 01:51:03 PM

The Whole Foods near us has a dry aging device.

I haven't tried anything, they are pricey.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2021, 02:06:48 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 11, 2021, 12:52:27 PM

I find myself just about never eating steak at restaurants. If I'm paying that much, it'd better be DAMN good. And if it's that good, it's mostly just special occasion level.

I'll make an exception for Harris Ranch on I-5, one because they got all them cows and two because that drive is awful and a steak breaks it up.

Yeah, but depending on which direction the wind is heading, it can be a pretty stinky meal!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 11, 2021, 02:19:54 PM

I admit to loving a Ruth’s Chris Ribeye one a year or so. 

I can grill one at home that competes  on taste , but I can’t get one that is that hot, and stays that hot, through the whole meal. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 11, 2021, 02:29:34 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 11, 2021, 01:28:54 PM

the fillet I had last night is tough to get at home

18 oz prime fillet 60-day dry aged

Jeebis you find a mammoth in the permafrost?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 11, 2021, 02:41:16 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 11, 2021, 02:29:34 PM

Jeebis you find a mammoth in the permafrost?

looks like a $40 meal to me

did you start printing money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 11, 2021, 02:48:12 PM

the beef cattle here great big, corn-fed

the guy across the table in the blue & white shirt was buying

If it was my tab, I would have had the 30-day dry aged sirloin 

every steak at Archie's Waeside is dry aged

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 11, 2021, 02:52:13 PM

They have big heifers in OHIO we just don't lop off a leg sitting around the campfire

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2021, 02:53:32 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 11, 2021, 02:52:13 PM

They have big heifers in OHIO we just don't lop off a leg sitting around the campfire

Well that would be rude to those OSU co-eds...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 11, 2021, 02:53:39 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 11, 2021, 02:52:13 PM

They have big heifers in OHIO we just don't lop off a leg sitting around the campfire

Well of course you don't, pretty sure it's illegal to do that to Ohio State coeds.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 11, 2021, 02:54:24 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2021, 02:53:32 PM

Well that would be rude to those OSU co-eds...

D'oh!


Seven seconds.

Missed it by... that much.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 11, 2021, 02:57:27 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2021, 02:53:32 PM

Well that would be rude to those OSU co-eds...

You're cornfusing them with West Leftout

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2021, 03:07:49 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 11, 2021, 02:57:27 PM

You're cornfusing them with West Leftout

Why I married a California girl. PKU. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 11, 2021, 03:11:14 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 11, 2021, 02:53:39 PM

Well of course you don't, pretty sure it's illegal to do that to Ohio State coeds.

Ain't nothing but steers,queers and a bunch of afflicted boarder crashers in Texas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 11, 2021, 03:17:13 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2021, 03:07:49 PM

Why I married a California girl. PKU.

Valley Girl,fer sure,good for you.PKU as in please kill yourself?Or Purdue Kentucky University

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2021, 03:23:29 PM

please keep up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 11, 2021, 03:27:44 PM

Iowa has long been the nation’s leader in ethanol and biodiesel production, turning homegrown corn and soybeans into cleaner-burning fuel.

Which raises a question – why does our state’s promotion of biofuels lag behind other Midwestern states?

State lawmakers are attempting to answer that question with legislation that would make E-10 (fuel blended with 10 percent ethanol) the standard at Iowa gas stations, while still giving consumers the choice to buy fuel with no ethanol.

So why pass an E-10 standard?

1) It helps Iowa catch up to other Midwestern states.
Establishing an E-10 standard is a proven, common sense approach that has worked for decades in other Midwestern states, including Minnesota and Missouri. Why wouldn’t Iowa (the national leader in ethanol production) want to catch up to its neighbors in promoting ethanol sales?

2) It's good for our communities.
Ethanol's benefits aren't just felt by the farm families who grow corn. Those benefits extend to rural communities and businesses, to biofuel plants, and to everyone driving in and through our state who appreciates a cost effective, homegrown, renewable and cleaner-burning fuel (that actually enhances their engine performance by boosting power and efficiency).

3) It's better for the environment.
A new study, conducted by scientists at Harvard and other universities, shows that corn ethanol’s carbon intensity is 46% lower than that of gasoline. In addition, the study found that some corn ethanol, depending on how it's made, can achieve up to a 61% reduction in GHG emissions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2021, 04:27:56 PM

Nick Saban gets it.

Alabama coach Nick Saban believes College Football Playoff takes away from other bowl games - CBSSports.com (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/alabama-coach-nick-saban-believes-college-football-playoff-takes-away-from-other-bowl-games/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 11, 2021, 08:01:50 PM

What would he know about other bowl games?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 11, 2021, 08:39:58 PM

Sad but true.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 11, 2021, 08:49:06 PM

he wants a new challenge?

he hasn't won a Rose Bowl?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 11, 2021, 09:02:42 PM

The importance of Bowl Games is in the eye of the beholder. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 11, 2021, 09:19:37 PM

The real problem is the nationalization of the sport.  The bowls were being diminished in favor of the chase for the national championship long before the CFP, or even the BCS and Alliance, were conceived.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 11, 2021, 11:20:35 PM

That may be true, but isn't it really just a supply/demand thing?  When there are 47 bowls and the names keep changing and you have sub-.500 teams making them and you have no idea who's playing where, you just throw it all out the window.

If we had the playoff and 8 other bowls only, you could wrap your head around that.  These teams had great seasons, they're rewarded, they're playing on this, this, and this night.  Each gets a piece of your attention.  It's manageable.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 11, 2021, 11:21:31 PM

Italy wins race 3 of the America's Cup.  Up 2-1.
Kiwis tie it in the 4th.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 12, 2021, 07:22:47 AM

Just surprised Flushing NY hasn't sponsored the Tidy Bowl yet.When invitations to the post season are handed out like beads at Mardi Gras kind of takes away the anticipation.Specially with the Holidays in full swing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 12, 2021, 08:09:32 AM

I too married a California girl. Somehow, she's normal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 12, 2021, 08:22:58 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2021, 04:27:56 PM

Nick Saban gets it.

Alabama coach Nick Saban believes College Football Playoff takes away from other bowl games - CBSSports.com (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/alabama-coach-nick-saban-believes-college-football-playoff-takes-away-from-other-bowl-games/)

I mean, he gets that nostalgia sells, that’s for sure. (No doubt, he himself is nostalgic as an old guy ).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 12, 2021, 08:26:46 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 12, 2021, 08:09:32 AM

I too married a California girl. Somehow, she's normal.

Somehow? 

I swear, we complain about kids spending too much inside and yet adults delight in acting as if they’ve never been in the world. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 12, 2021, 08:52:24 AM

Idiocy Flow Chart:

(https://i.imgur.com/LWeSocx.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 12, 2021, 08:54:58 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 12, 2021, 08:26:46 AM

Somehow?

I swear, we complain about kids spending too much inside and yet adults delight in acting as if they’ve never been in the world.

Ummm... WUT?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2021, 08:59:20 AM

somehow normal

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 12, 2021, 10:17:34 AM

The wife and I typically don't buy each other gifts for anniversaries--since we basically have everything we want we usually rather would spend that money on an experience together or something for the house.

Year 3 is supposed to be either leather (traditional) or glass (modern) themed, so we have a big dual-zone wine fridge with a nice big glass door coming, likely sometime next week. 

(https://i.imgur.com/CMqtJVw.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 12, 2021, 11:54:24 AM

Those are great. We have one too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 12, 2021, 11:58:37 AM

I probably should get one, I had one, but I generally don't lay wine down for long.  I do have a few in regular wine racks waiting for the right time, but not as many as before.  I gave my wine fridge to the daughter.

We have a dorm fridge in my office I've never plugged in.  I have a semi-decent stereo sitting atop it I've never wired up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 12, 2021, 12:19:51 PM

I'd like to have one.  We have four refrigerators so generally have plenty of room for chilled wines.  And I have a massive wall system including floating cabinets and room-temp wine racks that I built in my dining room.  

But having one of those dual-zone wine fridges that holds both at the correct temperature would be nice.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 12, 2021, 12:28:51 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 12, 2021, 10:17:34 AM

The wife and I typically don't buy each other gifts for anniversaries--since we basically have everything we want we usually rather would spend that money on an experience together or something for the house.

Year 3 is supposed to be either leather (traditional) or glass (modern) themed, so we have a big dual-zone wine fridge with a nice big glass door coming, likely sometime next week.

(https://i.imgur.com/CMqtJVw.png)

Looks like a vending machine. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 12, 2021, 12:40:17 PM

Two of my issues with our current wine storage:

• Most of our "good" bottles are in a rack in the hall closet, and we forget about them. The way they're stored makes it impossible to figure out what we have unless we halfway unload it. So when we're trying to decide to open something nicer when we both drink wine, we either have to completely search out what we've got to make a decision, or we just pick something closer to the top.
• We try not to run our a/c or heat, since CA is temperate. But I think for some of the nicer bottles of red wine, that means they're seeing more temp swings than probably is optimal. Could be 85+ inside the house in mid-afternoon, and then down to low 60s by the middle of the night... Day after day. That can't be good.

The hard thing will be acquiring enough wine to fill it lol...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 12, 2021, 12:41:35 PM

In other news...

My wife's best friend was just declared cancer-free! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 12, 2021, 12:43:39 PM

Tomorrow I'm taking my 13 year old for his first "real" round of golf... We got him adult clubs for Christmas and we've hit the range a few times, but this will be the real thing. Granted, it's an 1115 yard 9 hole course. So it's not particularly challenging, which of course means it's perfect.

I escaped for a quick 9 before work this morning (actually after SOME work--cleared my inbox of critical crap first) over there. Played ugly. But I figured I needed a tune-up before taking him so he doesn't beat me!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 12, 2021, 12:44:33 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 12, 2021, 12:40:17 PM

Two of my issues with our current wine storage:

• Most of our "good" bottles are in a rack in the hall closet, and we forget about them. The way they're stored makes it impossible to figure out what we have unless we halfway unload it. So when we're trying to decide to open something nicer when we both drink wine, we either have to completely search out what we've got to make a decision, or we just pick something closer to the top.
• We try not to run our a/c or heat, since CA is temperate. But I think for some of the nicer bottles of red wine, that means they're seeing more temp swings than probably is optimal. Could be 85+ inside the house in mid-afternoon, and then down to low 60s by the middle of the night... Day after day. That can't be good.

The hard thing will be acquiring enough wine to fill it lol...

Oh no bubble boy, that part's EASY!

(just expensive)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 12, 2021, 12:48:59 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 12, 2021, 12:43:39 PM

Granted, it's an 1115 yard 9 hole course. So it's not particularly challenging, which of course means it's perfect.

For you or him?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2021, 12:49:16 PM

my entire company (about 15 of us) are celebrating with lunch, 2 drinks, and the rest of the afternoon off.

I'm headed to the golf course after lunch

we're celebrating cutting over the last customer/subscriber from copper service to fiber service - big day

since Monday afternoon, all customers are now capable of synchronous Gig service on fiber.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 12, 2021, 12:55:54 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 12, 2021, 12:41:35 PM

In other news...

My wife's best friend was just declared cancer-free!

thats great news I know the feeling very well

the world is bright again

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 12, 2021, 01:04:15 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 12, 2021, 08:54:58 AM

Ummm... WUT?

Most people most places are normal. People from California are not materially different than people from anywhere else. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 12, 2021, 01:05:01 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 12, 2021, 12:41:35 PM

In other news...

My wife's best friend was just declared cancer-free!

Wonderful!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 12, 2021, 01:50:26 PM

Glad to hear about your wife's best friend beating the hell outta cancer, bwar!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 12, 2021, 03:38:13 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 12, 2021, 01:04:15 PM

Most people most places are normal. People from California are not materially different than people from anywhere else.

How long has it been since you were there?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 12, 2021, 04:10:49 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 12, 2021, 03:38:13 PM

How long has it been since you were there?

8 months, I think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 12, 2021, 04:16:37 PM

I'm calling Lex Luthor.

I'll B.R.A.D. know when it will happen. He's normal. Kinda.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 12, 2021, 04:25:56 PM

We can't be breaking CA off into the Pacific, my rent is rising fast enough as it is!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 12, 2021, 04:26:38 PM

The daughter wanted to watch Coming to America II last night, so we did.  I think there were 3 or 4 funny lines, maybe, I almost went to bed after 15 minutes, it was not remotely on par with the original.  It was as dumb as sequels often are.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 12, 2021, 06:02:33 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 12, 2021, 04:26:38 PM

The daughter wanted to watch Coming to America II last night, so we did.  I think there were 3 or 4 funny lines, maybe, I almost went to bed after 15 minutes, it was not remotely on par with the original.  It was as dumb as sequels often are.

sorry to hear that we are going to watch it tonight so Im prepared

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2021, 09:28:20 PM

lunch was nice.  As mice as lunch with co-workers can be

and as nice as lunch can be with an over cooked sirloin

golf was better, there was plenty of beer and decent weather.  Mid 50s with sun and a slight breeze

front 9 was rough, 14 over - fired up a cigar on the back and doubled down on Budweisers.  Shot 1 over.

home in time for Hawkeye hoops

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 13, 2021, 10:39:56 AM

You ate mice for lunch?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 13, 2021, 10:56:52 AM

Ya but the sirloin wasn't great

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 13, 2021, 02:01:02 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 12, 2021, 04:26:38 PM

The daughter wanted to watch Coming to America II last night, so we did.  I think there were 3 or 4 funny lines, maybe, I almost went to bed after 15 minutes, it was not remotely on par with the original.  It was as dumb as sequels often are.

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 12, 2021, 06:02:33 PM

sorry to hear that we are going to watch it tonight so Im prepared

Eh. It's stupid funny, just like the original. 

We watched the original the night before, and it aged about as well as you'd expect a 1980s comedy to age. We have nostalgia for the original, though, so we ascribe some level of "special" significance to it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2021, 03:21:05 PM

Neither is as good as Trading Places.

Took the wife and son up to Sweetwater Brewery, it is 79°F. partly cloudy, nice day to sit on the patio and have some brewskis.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 13, 2021, 03:37:30 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 12, 2021, 12:43:39 PM

Granted, it's an 1115 yard 9 hole course. So it's not particularly challenging, which of course means it's perfect.

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 12, 2021, 12:48:59 PM

For you or him?

I don't mean that it'll be easy for him... But if I brought him out to some par 36 9-hole course measuring 3500 yards and made him play from the tips... You might as well call DCFS on me... That's child abuse!

I played that course yesterday morning at +14 with two quadruple bogeys... So it can be a "challenge" for anyone if you play like crap. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2021, 05:23:20 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/QXZq1jg.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 14, 2021, 09:47:52 AM

Virus tolls similar despite governors' contrasting actions (apnews.com) (https://apnews.com/article/public-health-health-florida-coronavirus-pandemic-ron-desantis-889df3826d4da96447b329f524c33047)


:96:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 15, 2021, 12:53:40 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/160352431_3780255055395066_3734262798210814438_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=wnU1wts6pOYAX8klkHP&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=ee405826a67274da00c6ccdb9abfe0a0&oe=6073E348)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 15, 2021, 03:58:36 PM

We did our St Patrick's Day meal yesterday since we won't have the kids on Wednesday. 

It was the first time corning our own beef. I bought a 19# brisket and about 7# of chuck roast. I separated the point from the flat on the brisket, and after trimming all the fat I ground the brisket and the chuck together for burger meat. 

I then brined the flat for 8 days, and ended up with around 7# of meat post-brine. That was too much, so I quartered it and vacuum sealed two of the quarters for freezing, and cooked the two remaining quarters.

It was delicious! Tender and with that perfect red color. Served with roasted cabbage, roasted red potatoes, and sous vide carrots. 

Unfortunately I forgot to take pictures. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 15, 2021, 06:22:56 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 13, 2021, 03:37:30 PM

I played that course yesterday morning at +14 with two quadruple bogeys...

And you still would have beat me by plenty - so you have that going for you

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 15, 2021, 03:58:36 PM

It was delicious! Tender and with that perfect red color. Served with roasted cabbage, roasted red potatoes, and sous vide carrots.

Unfortunately I forgot to take pictures.

Thank You

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 15, 2021, 09:40:40 PM

Crazy America's Cup races today.
We had our first lead change in the 7th race (tied up 3-3).  New Zealand wins to go up 4-3.
.
Then the real fun happened - both boats experienced being listless - dead in the water, due to pockets of no wind.  It's crazy seeing vessels that can sail 50 mph drawing dead in the water.  They shortened the race due to this, and New Zealand wins again, up 5-3.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 15, 2021, 09:41:47 PM

Turns out my wife remembered to snap a pic...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 15, 2021, 10:15:40 PM

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/3ohs81rDuEz9ioJzAA/giphy-downsized-large.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 15, 2021, 10:29:05 PM

how in the world did you get video of utee at work

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 16, 2021, 07:06:12 AM

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2021/03/15/judge-rules-secretary-state-bensons-ballot-signature-verification-guidance-invalid/4699927001/?utm_source=detroitnews-Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily_briefing&utm_term=hero

I find this extremely interesting. State constitution changed in 24 states, which requires a vote of the people but happened without one. 
 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 16, 2021, 07:14:48 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 13, 2021, 02:01:02 PM

Eh. It's stupid funny, just like the original.

We watched the original the night before, and it aged about as well as you'd expect a 1980s comedy to age. We have nostalgia for the original, though, so we ascribe some level of "special" significance to it.

The original was funny. That was back in the heyday of Eddie Murphy's prime, when his powers were at their peak. Anything that guy did back then was gold. Not sure there has ever been a comedian/actor as big as Eddie Murphy was back in the 80s to early 90s. He was IT. Even as big as Jim Carrey or Adam Sandler got- to me neither felt like they were ever as big, famous, or larger than life than Eddie Murphy was in his day.

I honestly didn't think the sequel was funny at all. I thought it was trying to hard to be "woke" and that it was in general just flat out terrible. The only part of that movie that was any good was Wesley Snipes' cameo. Oh and his daughter Bopopo or whatever. 

Very few sequels ever are any good. Especially ones that come 30 years later. Most sequels that are any good- they make them a few years right after the original. GF2 came out just 2 years later, and was arguably better than GF1- when they waited 20+ years to come out with another GF sequel- it was absolutely awful. Have to strike while that creative and cultural iron is hot otherwise the sequels just wind up being trash. Look at all the Star Wars' from the early 2000s and late 2010's. God awful.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2021, 07:27:02 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 16, 2021, 07:06:12 AM

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2021/03/15/judge-rules-secretary-state-bensons-ballot-signature-verification-guidance-invalid/4699927001/?utm_source=detroitnews-Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily_briefing&utm_term=hero

I find this extremely interesting. State constitution changed in 24 states, which requires a vote of the people but happened without one.
 

Not surprised. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 16, 2021, 08:11:33 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 16, 2021, 07:06:12 AM

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2021/03/15/judge-rules-secretary-state-bensons-ballot-signature-verification-guidance-invalid/4699927001/?utm_source=detroitnews-Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily_briefing&utm_term=hero

I find this extremely interesting. State constitution changed in 24 states, which requires a vote of the people but happened without one.
 

The article doesn't say the state constitution was changed. It says the Administrative Procedures Act was not followed. Which doesn't seem great. (Out of curiosity, I couldn't find the 24 state thing. Would be interested to read about it)

In a larger sense, it is a sort of wild system. It assumes handwriting is an identifiable trait, and that these random bureaucrats will have a clue in matching them. Imagine the legal battles, ballot by ballot, digging through and matching signature by signature. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2021, 08:58:57 AM

knock it off

there's no evidence the election was rigged

everyone should simply wake up and acknowledge this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2021, 09:04:58 AM

Judge may unseal Fulton absentee ballots for fraud investigation (ajc.com) (https://www.ajc.com/politics/election/judge-may-unseal-fulton-absentee-ballots-for-fraud-investigation/3IPZKDO3BJGRRGVFTEW4MLLAKQ/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 16, 2021, 09:17:09 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 16, 2021, 08:58:57 AM

knock it off

there's no evidence the election was rigged

everyone should simply wake up and acknowledge this

You knock it off.  Nobody here said that. 

but the laws and rules, that are in place, followed,changed, not followed, etc - are a viable conversation.  
 You can’t censor it with your “knock it off”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2021, 09:27:23 AM

One side wants fewer legal citizens to vote under the guise of "voter fraud."  That's all there is to see here.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2021, 09:51:35 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2021, 09:27:23 AM

One side wants more illegal non-citizens to vote.  That's all there is to see here. 

We can all play that game, my friend.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 16, 2021, 09:52:26 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 15, 2021, 10:29:05 PM

how in the world did you get video of utee at work

Ha that was pretty much everyone when the Technology was being introduced to the offices and work place

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2021, 09:57:57 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 16, 2021, 09:52:26 AM

Ha that was pretty much everyone when the Technology was being introduced to the offices and work place

I like the look of UTee with his tie and short-sleeved shirt.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 16, 2021, 10:00:40 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2021, 09:27:23 AM

One side wants fewer legal citizens to vote under the guise of "voter fraud."  That's all there is to see here. 

I want every single person who is allowed to vote, and wants to vote - to be able to and do so easily-I do want them identified.  You know- how people get identified for virtually everything of substance they do in day to day life. 

it is not a credible argument to say we should not ensure their identity before people vote. Even someone who says they believe that- doesn’t. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 16, 2021, 10:03:35 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 16, 2021, 08:58:57 AM

knock it off

there's no evidence the election was rigged

everyone should simply wake up and acknowledge this

Maybe/maybe not but I have a hard time believing tax paying Americans voted for a guy who obviously is in the early stages of dementia.And a VP who had 4 yrs as senator of a floundering financial state that is/was a mess when she left.As both agreed to open the border since we know who will get the bill for that and it won't be the one %ers or those already getting Gov't subsidies.Just shoving the bill for feeding and housing anyone who jumps the border on an already taxed to death middle class

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2021, 10:04:21 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 16, 2021, 10:00:40 AM

I want every single person who is allowed to vote, and wants to vote - to be able to and do so easily-I do want them identified.  You know- how people get identified for virtually everything of substance they do in day to day life.

it is not a credible argument to say we should not ensure their identity before people vote. Even someone who says they believe that- doesn’t.

Exactly this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2021, 10:15:14 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 16, 2021, 10:00:40 AM

I want every single person who is allowed to vote, and wants to vote - to be able to and do so easily-I do want them identified. 

Yeah, your party doesn't.  At all.  The 2nd half of your post focuses on ID.....oh, if only that was their only tactic to suppress legal voting.  If only!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 16, 2021, 10:23:36 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 16, 2021, 10:00:40 AM

I want every single person who is allowed to vote, and wants to vote - to be able to and do so easily-I do want them identified.  You know- how people get identified for virtually everything of substance they do in day to day life.

it is not a credible argument to say we should not ensure their identity before people vote. Even someone who says they believe that- doesn’t.

Is it credible to acknowledge an extremely tight process of ensuring might likely be used to prevent people who would like to vote and are allowed to vote from voting? Just that it would be a pretty real possible externality. 

I don't have a great answer, but it certianly strikes me as a possible mechanism for chicanery, as unfortunately do the alternatives.  

(This spins back a bit toward that felon voting/court fees thing, which I listened to part of a podcast on. Less about the voting part, more about how the court fees were not really court fees as much as a back door to taxes, which was interesting)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 16, 2021, 10:24:55 AM

It should also be noted, voting primarily on a Tuesday is a bad and inefficient tradition. If you're not in favor of expanding the voting window, it should at the very least be moved to a non-work day. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2021, 10:35:11 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 16, 2021, 10:24:55 AM

It should also be noted, voting primarily on a Tuesday is a bad and inefficient tradition. If you're not in favor of expanding the voting window, it should at the very least be moved to a non-work day.

Not gonna happen. Election Day is a holiday in some states.

I'm all for early voting and verified absentee voting. Showing ID should be mandatory. It's silly to not be.


Voter identification laws - Wikipedia
 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_identification_laws)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 16, 2021, 10:54:27 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2021, 10:35:11 AM

Not gonna happen. Election Day is a holiday in some states.

I'm all for early voting and verified absentee voting. Showing ID should be mandatory. It's silly to not be.


Voter identification laws - Wikipedia
 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_identification_laws)

For the most part I don't mind the showing ID part (you get into questions of how a homeless person might vote, or those with insufficient access to certain services, but that can be worked through).

I'd aim for that to be relatively loose rather than stringent. If you have the spirit of being IDed correctly, I'd prefer it not get tripped up on technicalities (updated after a move, issues with students, the like). 

As long at the window is larger, Tuesdays are peachy. It just seems so silly to set it up so you have long waits early and late and just old people and the lightly employed wandering in for 70 percent of the open hours. (also some of the silly and punitive laws that have popped up around supplying people stuck in line)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2021, 11:04:40 AM

perhaps one party doesn't want the masses voting, but that's not "my" party

I'd like as many legal voters to vote as possible within reason

I showed my state issued driver's license to vote.  Didn't feel like oppression.  I also wore my mask, that wasn't oppressive either, IMO

if a legal voter wants to cast a ballot there's no unreasonable hoops to jump through, IMO

if illegal voters want to cast a ballot, it should be nearly impossible.

the integrity of our elections is very important, obviously

when folks believe otherwise, they become upset.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 16, 2021, 12:33:10 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 16, 2021, 07:14:48 AM

I honestly didn't think the sequel was funny at all. I thought it was trying to hard to be "woke" and that it was in general just flat out terrible. The only part of that movie that was any good was Wesley Snipes' cameo. Oh and his daughter Bopopo or whatever.

To be fair, I wouldn't have paid money to watch the sequel in a theater. It wouldn't have been worth that.

But I already have Amazon Prime, so for my investment (time, not money), it was stupid and funny, and I don't regret it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2021, 12:36:40 PM

I did not like the sequel.  And I thought it emphasized African stereotypes, some of which were not positive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 16, 2021, 12:39:04 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2021, 12:36:40 PM

I did not like the sequel.  And I thought it emphasized African stereotypes, some of which were not positive.

well then you could start a ground swell movement to cancel it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2021, 12:44:28 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 16, 2021, 12:39:04 PM

well then you could start a ground swell movement to cancel it

This cancel thing to me is PR.  The owners of whatever decided not to publish more of it, they own it.  It could also increase sales of forgotten books etc.

Nobody is making them do it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2021, 01:17:35 PM

Well.. this is interesting.

(https://i.imgur.com/22TvzHF.png)

Eric on Twitter: "In September 2019, Johns Hopkins in partnership with WHO published a detailed report on "high-impact respiratory pathogens" that is prophetic. For example, they warned NPI policies could be abused by overreaching governments for political/social purposes, not because of evidence. https://t.co/DbC1WQjeQc" / Twitter (https://twitter.com/IAmTheActualET/status/1371842988444422156)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2021, 01:29:24 PM

apparently, the WHO forgot about this

perhaps Johns Hopkins forgot as well

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2021, 01:31:50 PM

Huh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2021, 01:47:50 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 16, 2021, 11:04:40 AM

perhaps one party doesn't want the masses voting, but that's not "my" party

I'd like as many legal voters to vote as possible within reason

I showed my state issued driver's license to vote.  Didn't feel like oppression.  I also wore my mask, that wasn't oppressive either, IMO

if a legal voter wants to cast a ballot there's no unreasonable hoops to jump through, IMO

if illegal voters want to cast a ballot, it should be nearly impossible.

the integrity of our elections is very important, obviously

when folks believe otherwise, they become upset.

I almost wasn't able to vote because the address on my ID didn't match where I'm living.  
No one wants people to vote who shouldn't vote.  
The Republicans know good and well they're actions are limiting legal citizens from voting.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 16, 2021, 01:51:13 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2021, 01:47:50 PM

I almost wasn't able to vote because the address on my ID didn't match where I'm living. 
No one wants people to vote who shouldn't vote. 
The Republicans know good and well they're actions are limiting legal citizens from voting. 

and the dems actions increase the possibility of fraud 10 fold

so two can play your game OAM

the solution is there if both sides would just talk to each other

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 16, 2021, 01:51:37 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2021, 01:47:50 PM

I almost wasn't able to vote because the address on my ID didn't match where I'm living. 
No one wants people to vote who shouldn't vote. 
The Republicans know good and well they're actions are limiting legal citizens from voting. 

You might want to google the last election results to see how many people voted. Voter suppression?  Lol

And as is almost always the case when you post your dribble you are not only incorrect but the opposite of the truth. Most Republicans fully understand the difference between identifying a voter and having wide open voting or ballots are mailed unsolicited identifications are not checked and dead people get to vote as well as those who vote multiple times in multiple locations. It is some Democrats who understand their path to victory is to manufacture false votes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 16, 2021, 01:51:45 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2021, 01:17:35 PM

Well.. this is interesting.

(https://i.imgur.com/22TvzHF.png)

Eric on Twitter: "In September 2019, Johns Hopkins in partnership with WHO published a detailed report on "high-impact respiratory pathogens" that is prophetic. For example, they warned NPI policies could be abused by overreaching governments for political/social purposes, not because of evidence. https://t.co/DbC1WQjeQc" / Twitter (https://twitter.com/IAmTheActualET/status/1371842988444422156)

I'd like to see the rest of the report. 

I'd also point out that nothing has been said here. The reader is supposed to link that because Johns Hopkins said travel restrictions and quarantine *might* be pursued for social or political purposes, that in this case travel restrictions and quarantines *were* pursued for social or political purposes. 

But Johns Hopkins said no such thing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 16, 2021, 01:52:49 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 16, 2021, 01:51:13 PM

and the dems actions increase the possibility of fraud 10 fold

so two can play your game OAM

the solution is there if both sides would just talk to each other

The solution is simple! Voter identification. I’m sorry but nobody can credibly argue against that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 16, 2021, 01:56:42 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 16, 2021, 01:52:49 PM

The solution is simple! Voter identification. I’m sorry but nobody can credibly argue against that.

its also not ballot harvesting

and voting on one day

its also allowing poll watchers to go unhendered

its also not closing polling places running out the poll watchers and then processing ballots unobserved

there are many more too numerous to mention

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2021, 01:57:05 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 16, 2021, 01:51:13 PM

and the dems actions increase the possibility of fraud 10 fold

so two can play your game OAM

the solution is there if both sides would just talk to each other

The problem is that Republicans yelled and screamed that widespread fraud has occurred when it hasn't.  It's good to want to prevent fraud.  But it's a lie to say it's happened when it hasn't.  When policy is built on a lie, where does that leave us?

Sure, our elections are probably ripe for the picking.  But they haven't been picked.  And the proposed changes by Rs are targeted to prevent the poor and minorities from voting.  I can't believe you're on the other side of the net wanting to play this game.  Rs are pinpointing populations to omit from voting like smart bombs and you're pretending it's both sides equally at fault.

It's pretty disgusting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2021, 01:59:13 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 16, 2021, 01:56:42 PM

its also not closing polling places running out the poll watchers and then processing ballots unobserved

All of your items listed are what could lead to voting fraud, not what actually did.  But this one is my favorite.  It's projecting what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed.  They couldn't be trusted to process ballots unobserved, so that means no one should be.  It's amazing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 16, 2021, 02:01:01 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2021, 01:57:05 PM

The problem is that Republicans yelled and screamed that widespread fraud has occurred when it hasn't.  It's good to want to prevent fraud.  But it's a lie to say it's happened when it hasn't.  When policy is built on a lie, where does that leave us?

Sure, our elections are probably ripe for the picking.  But they haven't been picked.  And the proposed changes by Rs are targeted to prevent the poor and minorities from voting.  I can't believe you're on the other side of the net wanting to play this game.  Rs are pinpointing populations to omit from voting like smart bombs and you're pretending it's both sides equally at fault.

It's pretty disgusting.

you live in lala land OAM

pretty obvious massive fraud did occur

just because SCOTUS was afraid to hear the many documented cases brought to it

does not mean it didnt

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2021, 02:11:11 PM

aaaaaaand you're done
.
I'm in la-la land because I disagree with the narrative you've been fed with no actual evidence.  
You probably believe in a god, too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 16, 2021, 02:18:57 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2021, 02:11:11 PM

aaaaaaand you're done
.
I'm in la-la land because I disagree with the narrative you've been fed with no actual evidence. 
You probably believe in a god, too.

now comes the personal attack

lots of evidence but thats ok you keep spewing your dribble maybe somebody might believe it

how does it feel to have a potted plant for a president

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2021, 02:25:42 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 16, 2021, 01:51:45 PM

I'd like to see the rest of the report.

I'd also point out that nothing has been said here. The reader is supposed to link that because Johns Hopkins said travel restrictions and quarantine *might* be pursued for social or political purposes, that in this case travel restrictions and quarantines *were* pursued for social or political purposes.

But Johns Hopkins said no such thing.

(https://i.imgur.com/010xD6e.png)

190918-GMPBreport-respiratorypathogen.pdf (centerforhealthsecurity.org)

 (https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/our-work/pubs_archive/pubs-pdfs/2019/190918-GMPBreport-respiratorypathogen.pdf)Go to page 73 to find the above paragraph.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 16, 2021, 02:26:59 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2021, 01:57:05 PM

The problem is that Republicans yelled and screamed that widespread fraud has occurred when it hasn't.  It's good to want to prevent fraud.  But it's a lie to say it's happened when it hasn't.  When policy is built on a lie, where does that leave us?

Sure, our elections are probably ripe for the picking.  But they haven't been picked.  And the proposed changes by Rs are targeted to prevent the poor and minorities from voting.  I can't believe you're on the other side of the net wanting to play this game.  Rs are pinpointing populations to omit from voting like smart bombs and you're pretending it's both sides equally at fault.

It's pretty disgusting.

Yes.  How dare those nasty Rs want people to be identified.    The shame.  Its racist I tell you. In fact- anytime we are asked for ID, like boarding an airplane, purchasing a weapon, making a bank withdrawal or buying beer- is racist! 

Disgusting. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2021, 02:29:07 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2021, 01:47:50 PM

I almost wasn't able to vote because the address on my ID didn't match where I'm living. 

maybe you shouldn't have been allowed
you knew your ID wasn't up to date
you knew there was an election coming up
it's an easy fix
have you since updated the ID?
do your license plates match your county?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 16, 2021, 02:33:31 PM

OAM certianly does live in "derail this by stirring folks up" land.

Every time I think perhaps we might dialogue to one degree, we get a very aggressive post, which triggers four more, which triggers three responses and off we go. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2021, 02:35:05 PM

I try to avoid aggressive posts at all costs

incoming and especially out going 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 16, 2021, 02:38:27 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 16, 2021, 02:29:07 PM

maybe you shouldn't have been allowed
you knew your ID wasn't up to date
you knew there was an election coming up
it's an easy fix
have you since updated the ID?
do your license plates match your county?

So this gets you down the rabbit hole. 

People who move close to election day can't vote unless there are hoops jumped through. DMVs in many places make things difficult. It turns a casual lack of inertia into a way to make things more difficult (and then people will lament when orgs pop up to drive people places to get IDs updated and such).

I have a sticker I need to put on my car. I haven't gotten around to it. None the less, I'm allowed to drive. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2021, 02:41:09 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 16, 2021, 02:38:27 PM

So this gets you down the rabbit hole.

People who move close to election day can't vote unless there are hoops jumped through. DMVs in many places make things difficult. It turns a casual lack of inertia into a way to make things more difficult (and then people will lament when orgs pop up to drive people places to get IDs updated and such).

I have a sticker I need to put on my car. I haven't gotten around to it. None the less, I'm allowed to drive.

Proper ID could be a driver's license, even if it is not correct, if you bring in a lease, utility bill, etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2021, 03:03:25 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 16, 2021, 02:38:27 PM

So this gets you down the rabbit hole.

People who move close to election day can't vote unless there are hoops jumped through. DMVs in many places make things difficult. It turns a casual lack of inertia into a way to make things more difficult (and then people will lament when orgs pop up to drive people places to get IDs updated and such).

I have a sticker I need to put on my car. I haven't gotten around to it. None the less, I'm allowed to drive.

how difficult can a DMV make things?
how many people move close to an election day?  What is "close" a week or two, a month or two?
I don't see these hoops as difficult.

and as you know.... if you don't get that sticker on your car in a reasonable time, you won't be allowed to drive that car.
this isn't NAM.  There are RULES!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 16, 2021, 03:05:30 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2021, 02:25:42 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/010xD6e.png)

190918-GMPBreport-respiratorypathogen.pdf (centerforhealthsecurity.org)

 (https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/our-work/pubs_archive/pubs-pdfs/2019/190918-GMPBreport-respiratorypathogen.pdf)Go to page 73 to find the above paragraph.

Thanks. At 84 pages, I should be careful what I wish for, huh? 

But even the full paragraph offers a lot more context.

tl;dr being "don't trust your local government, trust the WHO!"

Is that what you were going for when you posted it initially? :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2021, 03:07:46 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 16, 2021, 03:05:30 PM

Thanks. At 84 pages, I should be careful what I wish for, huh?

But even the full paragraph offers a lot more context.

tl;dr being "don't trust your local government, trust the WHO!"

Is that what you were going for when you posted it initially? :57:

Haha.

That was written when the WHO had a little more cred on the street. That's gone.

It's actually a good report. Better than I thought.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2021, 03:22:33 PM

had more cred, but probably didn't deserve it in hindsight

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 16, 2021, 03:25:14 PM

Government red tape is good actually, if it prevents voting

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2021, 03:37:10 PM

many things have more and more difficult hoops than voting

if you want to vote, make the effort

if you want to drive a car, it takes effort

if you want to take a commercial flight, it takes effort

if you want to travel to another country, it takes effort

if you want to buy a gun, it takes effort

if you want to qualify for federal or state monetary assistance, it takes effort

if you don't want to make the effort - do things illegally and hope you don't get caught

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2021, 03:39:15 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 16, 2021, 03:25:14 PM

Government red tape is good actually, if it prevents voting

elections are run by the government, what would you expect
simple, easy, credible, no corruption?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2021, 05:08:58 PM

The DMV here was shockingly efficient.  We were out in 30 minutes, new DL, and registered to vote.  Very easy.

I was prepared to spend hours.  The wife was shocked as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 16, 2021, 05:24:13 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 16, 2021, 03:03:25 PM

how difficult can a DMV make things?
how many people move close to an election day?  What is "close" a week or two, a month or two?
I don't see these hoops as difficult.

and as you know.... if you don't get that sticker on your car in a reasonable time, you won't be allowed to drive that car.
this isn't NAM.  There are RULES!

I mean, you just get admonished at least once, not denied driving outright. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 16, 2021, 05:25:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2021, 05:08:58 PM

The DMV here was shockingly efficient.  We were out in 30 minutes, new DL, and registered to vote.  Very easy.

I was prepared to spend hours.  The wife was shocked as well.

I've been in two good DMV states as an adult. Granted, one was good for a kinda silly reason. 

Ca was a dystopian nightmare. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2021, 05:25:47 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2021, 05:08:58 PM

The DMV here was shockingly efficient.  We were out in 30 minutes, new DL, and registered to vote.  Very easy.

I was prepared to spend hours.  The wife was shocked as well.

Same down here. 30 minutes for DL, plates, title, voting registration and payment.

All with the same person.

In Illinois, that's a 4 hour endeavor, with 10 different people and 10 different lines.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 16, 2021, 05:31:39 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 16, 2021, 05:25:08 PM

Ca was a dystopian nightmare.

I think CA has improved somewhat from older days, with the appointment system.

Still, it can be very hit-or-miss depending on which DMV you go to. I usually like to go down to San Clemente. Last time I had to renew my license (two summers ago) I was seriously out in about 15-20 minutes. 

But I have heard that some other locations are nightmares. The one closest to me is right near the giant retirement community, and usually slow as molasses.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2021, 05:59:43 PM

Here in AZ, my ID doesn't expire until I'm 65, so I don't see why I should replace it when I move.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2021, 06:08:44 PM

I had a wrinkle with my license plates, the lady put the address in wrong, so they didn't show up, and I had to go get them on my last day with temps.  But that wasn't the DMV.  We went to the DMV downtown, I expected a Charlie Foxtrot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2021, 09:06:54 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2021, 05:59:43 PM

Here in AZ, my ID doesn't expire until I'm 65, so I don't see why I should replace it when I move. 

maybe to be able to vote
or a few other things that aren't important

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on March 16, 2021, 09:54:25 PM

Every time I visit the IN motor vehicle branch. Which is rare as you can do so much online,  I compliment how efficient it is.  People are friendly, pleasant,  no lines plenty of room and chairs while you hold your deli #.  Legend has it fixing the IN BMV was Mitch Daniels' day one obsession when he became Gov.
   WI was just miserable. People pricks, such an Anti-WI feel.  Only the Milwaukee County Courthouse had a more negative vibe. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2021, 09:01:27 AM

Yeah, all of the state offices in Illinois were like that too. It was like going into a morgue. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2021, 09:02:01 AM

Makes me want to puke.

Meghan Markle, Prince Harry's fan-created GoFundMe page ends after dismal showing: report | Fox Business (https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/fan-gofundme-meghan-markle-prince-harry-mortgage-ends)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2021, 09:07:53 AM

Inflation looks to me like a real thing going forward.  Duh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2021, 09:50:22 AM

haven't talked much about inflation for years

oh well

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2021, 09:56:09 AM

A lot of economic stimulus of late, should push demand etc.  Domestic oil I think has played a role in keeping it down.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 17, 2021, 10:03:18 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 17, 2021, 09:50:22 AM

haven't talked much about inflation for years

oh well

It's probably bad for business.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2021, 10:13:12 AM

it's bad for folks that don't have a lot of money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 17, 2021, 10:27:27 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2021, 09:02:01 AM

Makes me want to puke.

Meghan Markle, Prince Harry's fan-created GoFundMe page ends after dismal showing: report | Fox Business (https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/fan-gofundme-meghan-markle-prince-harry-mortgage-ends)

Hey, that it was even created makes me want to puke, but the fact that it had a "dismal showing" at least restored a tiny amount of faith in people...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2021, 10:36:45 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 17, 2021, 10:27:27 AM

Hey, that it was even created makes me want to puke, but the fact that it had a "dismal showing" at least restored a tiny amount of faith in people...

Correct.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2021, 10:43:18 AM

What sort of person would send them a dime?  Some lady fascinated with the Royals?  She might send ten bucks?  Poor things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2021, 10:46:13 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 17, 2021, 10:03:18 AM

It's probably bad for business. 

Bad for you too.

Go back and take a look at the mid/late 1970's. Disaster.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2021, 10:59:17 AM

I applied for a home loan in 1981, the quoted interested rate was 17.5% 30 year fixed.

I passed.  Another bank bailed out the owner of the new condos and gave me a 3 year ARM at 12.5%.  I took it.  Got a sweet deal on the unit too, 80% of original listing cost.

This would hammer real estate values in time and make imports expensive and raw materials expensive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2021, 11:14:52 AM

yup, Student loan in 1980.  Home mortgage in 89.

local farm economy in the toilet

the past 20 years have been much better financially, at least in this dirt farmer's area code

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2021, 11:28:07 AM

When I first started investing for real, the DJIA was around 600.  Commissions were $70 per trade.  There was an odd lot fee.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 17, 2021, 11:53:57 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 17, 2021, 10:27:27 AM

Hey, that it was even created makes me want to puke, but the fact that it had a "dismal showing" at least restored a tiny amount of faith in people...

Many, many boardgames are crowd-funded.  I looked into it, but yeah, I'm not a fan.  For me, ideas (and businesses) should succeed or fail on merit.  When it comes to ideas/games/whatever on these crowdfunding sites, it's speculation and then a form of debt....social debt?  Or perks for speculating with their money?  Idk.  

Just put it out there and trust in your product, man.

As for former royals asking for money, yeah, that's gross.  I applaud them for leaving all that, though.  But the financial ramifications were obvious, so they should have had some kind of plan for that - a book or big payday for a sit-down interview, etc.  They need to spend some time eating Top Ramen and 2-for-1 gas station hotdogs.  That'll put some hair on their chests.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2021, 12:00:37 PM

Living poor for a while does sharpen your empathy and your financial discipline.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2021, 12:15:10 PM

I've been told I need much more empathy and less financial discipline

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2021, 12:18:03 PM

They are not living poor...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 17, 2021, 12:28:24 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2021, 12:18:03 PM

They are not living poor...

Exactly.
If they did, for 5 minutes, they'd freak.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 17, 2021, 12:35:17 PM

Its one thing to have disagreements with your in laws but something else to go on Oprah and bash them

I lost all respect for them when that happened 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 17, 2021, 12:36:03 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 17, 2021, 12:35:17 PM

Its one thing to have disagreements with your in laws but something else to go on Oprah and bash them

I lost all respect for them when that happened

I would have lost all respect for them also provided I had any respect for them in the first place. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2021, 12:38:03 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 17, 2021, 12:36:03 PM

I would have lost all respect for them also provided I had any respect for them in the first place.

There is that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2021, 12:39:40 PM

Ed Zachery

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 17, 2021, 01:08:25 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 17, 2021, 12:35:17 PM

Its one thing to have disagreements with your in laws but something else to go on Oprah and bash them

I lost all respect for them when that happened

I'd bash anyone for the kind of money they got for doing that interview (I assume).  Even you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on March 17, 2021, 01:12:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2021, 05:08:58 PM

The DMV here was shockingly efficient.  We were out in 30 minutes, new DL, and registered to vote.  Very easy.

I was prepared to spend hours.  The wife was shocked as well.

It is even simpler in Arizona.  Once you have your original License it doesn't expire until you are 65.  To update, you go to a website, fill in some information and less than a week later you have a new license with your current address. You only have to update your photo every 12 years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on March 17, 2021, 01:13:32 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2021, 05:59:43 PM

Here in AZ, my ID doesn't expire until I'm 65, so I don't see why I should replace it when I move. 

Because it is required by law and it is super easy to do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 17, 2021, 01:14:21 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 17, 2021, 01:08:25 PM

I'd bash anyone for the kind of money they got for doing that interview (I assume).  Even you.

Supposedly they did not receive anything for the interview.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on March 17, 2021, 01:15:36 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 17, 2021, 10:59:17 AM

I applied for a home loan in 1981, the quoted interested rate was 17.5% 30 year fixed.

I passed.  Another bank bailed out the owner of the new condos and gave me a 3 year ARM at 12.5%.  I took it.  Got a sweet deal on the unit too, 80% of original listing cost.

This would hammer real estate values in time and make imports expensive and raw materials expensive.

I got a 13.5% fix rate in 1983 only because there was a special bond issue for funds in Ohio for first time home buyers. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2021, 01:18:00 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on March 17, 2021, 01:15:36 PM

I got a 13.5% fix rate in 1983 only because there was a special bond issue for funds in Ohio for first time home buyers.

I got the 1st time homebuyer's in 89.  I think it was under 10%, but don't remember.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 17, 2021, 01:19:37 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on March 17, 2021, 01:13:32 PM

Because it is required by law and it is super easy to do.

For some reason, I'm not big on victimless laws that aren't enforced.  But I'm weird like that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2021, 01:21:23 PM

apparently, I need to update my DL that is valid until 2023 because it's not TSA approved to get on a flight.

I might not fly anywhere until 23.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2021, 01:22:03 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 17, 2021, 01:19:37 PM

For some reason, I'm not big on victimless laws that aren't enforced.  But I'm weird like that.

Weird folks aren't required to vote

or even encouraged 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 17, 2021, 01:22:46 PM

I've flown, been pulled over, and voted with my DL with an old address on it.  Thus, no motive to update it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 17, 2021, 01:23:17 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 17, 2021, 01:22:03 PM

Weird folks aren't required to vote

or even encouraged

The poor are discouraged to vote.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2021, 01:24:06 PM

Dude,

you brought it up... as oppression

apparently, you're NOT being oppressed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on March 17, 2021, 01:24:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 17, 2021, 12:00:37 PM

Living poor for a while does sharpen your empathy and your financial discipline.

Lived poor for a long long time. I am well off now, my wife has accused me of changing in the last 5 years and become cavalier with money.  Probably true, I have become use to doing what I want when I want and not worrying about the cost.  Use to be I tracked every penny, seriously to the penny and every bit of money coming in was allocated to a category. 

All that said, I can say that can be quite empathic to those less fortunate than me. I believe (and practice) strongly in personal charity, while opposing governmental forced "charity"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2021, 01:24:57 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 17, 2021, 01:23:17 PM

The poor are discouraged to vote. 

how so?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 17, 2021, 01:25:36 PM

If you need someone to tell you, it won't be a fruitful discussion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on March 17, 2021, 01:26:59 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 17, 2021, 01:19:37 PM

For some reason, I'm not big on victimless laws that aren't enforced.  But I'm weird like that.

Neither am I. I don't even think there should be driver's license :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 17, 2021, 01:29:52 PM

Scandalous!  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2021, 01:46:35 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 17, 2021, 01:25:36 PM

If you need someone to tell you, it won't be a fruitful discussion.

I'm pretty cheap thrifty & I don't often think my vote is worth much.

if voting cost much money, I'd probably save my money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2021, 01:46:51 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 17, 2021, 01:21:23 PM

apparently, I need to update my DL that is valid until 2023 because it's not TSA approved to get on a flight.

I might not fly anywhere until 23.

Get the Global Entry pass. With that, you can enter the country without having to go through Customs. It's a step above TSA Pre-Check, and worth it. It took about a month.

Major FBI background check, of course. 

Just like for anyone entering this coun... Wait...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2021, 02:00:06 PM

I don't need to bother the FBI, they've got more important things to do

perhaps my passport would work?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2021, 02:02:46 PM

Gunshow - About (gunshowatl.com) (https://gunshowatl.com/atlanta-glenwood-park-gunshow-about)

Going to try this place next week, I think, I hear about it a lot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2021, 02:07:22 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 17, 2021, 02:00:06 PM

I don't need to bother the FBI, they've got more important things to do

perhaps my passport would work?

I don't think so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 17, 2021, 02:09:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 17, 2021, 02:02:46 PM

Gunshow - About (gunshowatl.com) (https://gunshowatl.com/atlanta-glenwood-park-gunshow-about)

Going to try this place next week, I think, I hear about it a lot.

looks kinda hoity toity 

better dress up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2021, 02:14:14 PM

The name Gunshow is a tribute to Chef Gillespie’s family. Growing up in Georgia, Kevin’s father worked seven days a week to provide a better life for his family. On the rare Sunday afternoon, he had off, father and son would often go to a gun show.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2021, 02:14:17 PM

It looks dress casual, but it's $99 per person, not including fine print.

21 Best Restaurants in Atlanta | Condé Nast Traveler (cntraveler.com) (https://www.cntraveler.com/gallery/best-restaurants-in-atlanta)

I've been to one of these, sort of, Little Rey's Al Carbon Chicken, it's casual and fun, and crowded.

Need to start checking off the others.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2021, 02:33:00 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2021, 09:02:01 AM

Makes me want to puke.

Meghan Markle, Prince Harry's fan-created GoFundMe page ends after dismal showing: report | Fox Business (https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/fan-gofundme-meghan-markle-prince-harry-mortgage-ends)

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p180x540/161183922_963093361164743_2434277151915364542_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=5js0ytfbfZwAX_fGOzW&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=15f75684a0b3e8f9710c749620d0563f&oe=6077FCF9)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2021, 02:37:59 PM

Sabine Schmitz's Nurburgring Lap in a Van Is Still Wonderful (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a35863214/sabine-schmitz-top-gear-transit-nurburgring-lap/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&fbclid=IwAR1jyOof5tlsiq7gDDJUlN1ndu4J27sPTKYoSeCwpbZ4vd4vBb1Y6dpJpyY)

Will make your day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2021, 02:43:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 17, 2021, 02:37:59 PM

Sabine Schmitz's Nurburgring Lap in a Van Is Still Wonderful (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a35863214/sabine-schmitz-top-gear-transit-nurburgring-lap/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&fbclid=IwAR1jyOof5tlsiq7gDDJUlN1ndu4J27sPTKYoSeCwpbZ4vd4vBb1Y6dpJpyY)

Will make your day.

excellent 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 17, 2021, 02:49:27 PM

I usually just watch the crash videos.  It's cheaper than a NASCAR ticket, anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2021, 02:51:30 PM

Uncomfortable knowledge | Climate Etc. (judithcurry.com) (https://judithcurry.com/2021/03/03/uncomfortable-knowledge/#more-27179)

But Rayner and Sarewitz argue that this isn’t so. The problem is not that charlatans have duped the public with pseudoscience and misinformation but rather that the expert class and the institutions in which they are embedded has failed to attend to the panoply of public values that are unavoidably implicated in the construction of policy-relevant science. The solution, they argue, is not more research, better science communication, or louder condemnations of science denial. Instead, it is greater cognitive pluralism — both in how we define problems and how we shape solutions — so that both are better able to speak to a broader range of normative postures toward risk.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2021, 02:52:57 PM

“Nobody worries,” Rayner and Sarewitz observe, “whether laypeople trust astrophysicists who study the origins of stars or biologists who study anaerobic bacteria that cluster around deep sea vents.” Nor have most of us come to distrust surgeons or airline pilots. It is rather a particular kind of science, “making claims upon how we live and how we are governed” that so many of us no longer trust.

This sort of science has become so intensely contested in the early decades of the 21st century because the science, related as it is to the complex interface of human societies, public health, the natural world, and technology, carries so much uncertainty across so many valences of human choices and values. Lay publics are right to mistrust strong claims, whether they come from scientists, policy-makers, or advocates, based upon this sort of science.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2021, 02:59:00 PM

I just self published Book 3, started on Book 4.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2021, 03:12:21 PM

Interesting, from one year ago today.

In the coronavirus pandemic, we're making decisions without reliable data (statnews.com) (https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2021, 03:18:08 PM

I think "we" had to make decisions without data.  By the time we might have had data it could be far too late.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2021, 03:27:52 PM

Sweden made decisions. It's worked for them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 17, 2021, 03:46:44 PM

Ugh......I wish this wasn't so predictable.  
Oh well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2021, 03:50:44 PM

I think it became predicable early on in this thing. 

More people have had it than we know. 5-10x as many. Even if it's 5x as many, the death rate is 0.36% as of today, in the US.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 17, 2021, 03:52:59 PM

What part of your body did those numbers originate?  
The predictable part was our lucking out that this thing wasn't worse + our precautions = the naysayers eventually touting how we overreacted.  Ick.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2021, 05:23:14 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 17, 2021, 03:52:59 PM

What part of your body did those numbers originate? 
The predictable part was our lucking out that this thing wasn't worse + our precautions = the naysayers eventually touting how we overreacted.  Ick.

From my brain, which contains considerable knowledge based on reading papers, such as the one I cited above (which you probably did not bother to open), and from talking to actual Scientists and Doctors (of Medicine). You know, The Science.

There were several experts who last year suggested that the case rate in Santa Clara County could be as much as 50x greater than known.

While I don't believe it's that high (we'd have herd immunity if it was), this virus has been here since November, or earlier. It was in Spain as early as September, based on municipal waste sample analyses. 

Asymptomatic Spread ran wild, and only when we knew what we had did people start to figure this thing out. It would have helped had the CCP and WHO come clean sooner, and had the CCP banned travel abroad - like they did for travel domestically.

Lots of people passed away from November through January and the medical community suspected pneumonia. Now we know better.

Anyway, here we are, sitting at a 1.8% death rate. Divide that number by 5 and you get 0.36%.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2021, 05:24:18 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/xiTQzXh.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 17, 2021, 11:20:01 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2021, 09:02:01 AM

Makes me want to puke.

Meghan Markle, Prince Harry's fan-created GoFundMe page ends after dismal showing: report | Fox Business (https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/fan-gofundme-meghan-markle-prince-harry-mortgage-ends)

Badge. My friend. Why would it make you sick? Don't do that.

I've worked in a couple media adjacent fields, so I have half a feel for such things. This is a set of kinda of fascinating elements of the media landscape. 

This is outrage cotton candy. It's a story that people get low-key irked by and they share. And that's good for the outlet, cynical in it's approach. You can get a lot of traffic by saying something as simple as "Kids sure are crappy and ungrateful." You could write that at any point, and folks would heartily agree. This is something different. This is "look at this freak."

This person is at worst a weirdo, at best, a knowing grifter. And after getting highlighted by a national outlet, it can only help feed the weirdness or the grift. And here's the thing, we've had weirdos and grifters since time began, but we didn't have a way to highlight them quite as we do now. Or as profitably as we do now. 

Someone started a stupid gofundme, either because they're an sincere moron or they were trying to steal. No one cared. This is not a story or important. I could start a gofundme right now that says "Raise money to support 847BadgerFan after he was canceled for saying that racial slur." I could do that right now. It wouldn't mean you were canceled or said a slur or that I was seriously raising money for you. 

This is a weirdo being weird and a national outlet feeding us stupid content that bothers a lot of people because it's stupid. I don't think any of the weirdos on the board make you want to puke for any reason (hopefully), so no reason for some weirdo you'll never meat or wouldn't think about outside an outlet making them a freak show to either. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 18, 2021, 06:41:46 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 17, 2021, 01:08:25 PM

I'd bash anyone for the kind of money they got for doing that interview (I assume).  Even you.

Why do you care about a financial arraignment between two consenting parties that does not affect you? Personally, I could care less about the Royals or the Orca, I really don't care for either of them. But what they do with their money is not my concern. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 18, 2021, 08:54:30 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/B9r96um.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 18, 2021, 11:33:22 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 18, 2021, 06:41:46 AM

Why do you care about a financial arraignment between two consenting parties that does not affect you? Personally, I could care less about the Royals or the Orca, I really don't care for either of them. But what they do with their money is not my concern.

I don't care.  I don't understand people who do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 18, 2021, 05:24:27 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/162417913_1196080547515205_7437589378085274116_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=kjLy0HgH4AMAX-Evchk&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=1b7e2c5cbf88caa10961b32f1d8f0ca2&oe=607A81D0)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 18, 2021, 10:25:56 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 18, 2021, 08:54:30 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/B9r96um.png)

It's ... real annoying. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 18, 2021, 10:26:25 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2021, 05:24:18 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/xiTQzXh.png)

... did OAM miss his calling as an engineer?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 19, 2021, 10:21:37 AM

My dad is a civil engineer - mostly worked on nuclear plants.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 19, 2021, 10:31:58 AM

was his name, Homer?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 19, 2021, 11:31:04 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 19, 2021, 10:31:58 AM

was his name, Homer?

LOL

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 19, 2021, 11:35:34 AM

His name is my name.
We moved every 5 years or so, going from job to job, until nuclear basically went offline overnight.  Then he owned his own business, working himself to death.  When nuclear became a thing again, my brother and I suggested he go back into it - fewer hours, less stress, and there was a gap of people specializing in it, because it had been offline for so long.

I don't know why he specialized in nuclear powerplants....he just oversaw the construction of different pieces of it.  No opportunities to pull a Homer and fall asleep during a meltdown.  
It's weird, though - back in the 90s, they just halted construction on nuclear plants suddenly.  The U.S. had a bunch of half-build reactors (and accompanying infrastructure) just sitting around for 15 years.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 19, 2021, 11:59:21 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 19, 2021, 11:31:04 AM

LOL

it was supposed to be funny and not offensive

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 19, 2021, 12:15:44 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 19, 2021, 11:59:21 AM

it was supposed to be funny and not offensive

didnt offend me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 19, 2021, 02:28:00 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 19, 2021, 11:59:21 AM

it was supposed to be funny and not offensive

It was funny.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 19, 2021, 03:29:35 PM

In other news...........

it's over 50 degrees and sunny

the golf course and a bud fat are calling

FORE!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 19, 2021, 03:35:55 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 19, 2021, 03:29:35 PM

In other news...........

it's over 50 degrees and sunny

the golf course and a bud fat are calling

FORE!!!

bud fat?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 19, 2021, 05:13:22 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 19, 2021, 03:29:35 PM

In other news...........

it's over 50 degrees and sunny

the golf course and a bud fat are calling

FORE!!!

Had a golf lesson today. HUGE help in understanding why my body wasn't doing what I was telling it to...

It was on a Trackman, and I was hitting 7i with 90 mph clubhead speed, which is right around PGA tour average... So I've got that going for me... Which is nice. :72:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 19, 2021, 05:36:34 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 19, 2021, 05:13:22 PM

... So I've got that going for me... Which is nice. :72:

Was this supposed to be read in this voice:

https://youtu.be/X48G7Y0VWW4

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 19, 2021, 05:42:41 PM

Yeah, that was intentional ;-) 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 20, 2021, 09:25:14 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 19, 2021, 03:35:55 PM

bud fat?

not Bud Light


Bud Heavy
diesel

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2021, 09:26:28 AM

Quote from: SFBadger96 on March 19, 2021, 03:10:56 PM

Our discussion of the use of "China Virus" still bugs me.

The piece linked below was written by a high school classmate and friend of mine. Maybe they aren't related. I think they are. You have to make your own decisions.

https://techsavvymama.com/2021/03/6-things-you-can-do-to-stop-asian-hate.html?fbclid=IwAR2LQgi95VlPPtKSi9S7lBCkeKMSS4N1iwI0j4JVqMFO-I5R2S7jux7voII

I understand @SFBadger96 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=51) . But, we still talk about the Spanish Flu, the Hong Kong Flu, etc.


Even CNN and MSNBC referred to this thing as the "Chinese Virus" early on, before they cancelled it and called it racist.

Still, I get it. I don't use that terminology much anymore, except when I'm pissed about it. And have not an ounce of Asian hate in my body. They are wonderful people who should be an example to us.

Regardless, back to Asian hate crimes.

Who commits them?

Black on Asian Crime Statistics (financegeek.org) (https://www.financegeek.org/chinese/black-on-asian-crime/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 20, 2021, 09:30:05 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 19, 2021, 05:13:22 PM

Had a golf lesson today. HUGE help in understanding why my body wasn't doing what I was telling it to...

It was on a Trackman, and I was hitting 7i with 90 mph clubhead speed, which is right around PGA tour average... So I've got that going for me... Which is nice. :72:

nice, I always say, "Swing Hard!"

Was a good afternoon on he course, took all 9 skins on the front (carry overs) with a tap in par on nine
then chipped in for birdie on 18 to shoot 39 on the back

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 20, 2021, 11:26:43 AM

FORE!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 20, 2021, 11:32:22 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 20, 2021, 11:26:43 AM

FORE!!!

Yep. Playing 18 in about an hour. So I have to forget everything I learned yesterday because it's too early to integrate into a full swing...

...and I don't want to be at a disadvantage in our high stakes ($1/hole) skins game! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 20, 2021, 03:19:23 PM

Nice weather today, we'll hit a high of 70 and very bright and sunny.  I'm BBQing three racks of pork spares and I'll do some smoked sausage later.  Gotta get ready to watch Texas play in the tourney tonight.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 20, 2021, 03:39:55 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/K4jIf6I.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 20, 2021, 03:41:19 PM

This is where Georgia played Auburn in football in 1895 in front of 5,000 spectators, including folks on a train.  The tracks are not part of the Beltline around Atlanta.  



(https://i.imgur.com/T8LsoHU.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 20, 2021, 03:42:07 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/nSsyHib.jpg)

Our view north, tulip poplar on left and sycamore on right.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 20, 2021, 05:20:10 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2021, 09:26:28 AM

I understand @SFBadger96 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=51) . But, we still talk about the Spanish Flu, the Hong Kong Flu, etc.


Even CNN and MSNBC referred to this thing as the "Chinese Virus" early on, before they cancelled it and called it racist.

Still, I get it. I don't use that terminology much anymore, except when I'm pissed about it. And have not an ounce of Asian hate in my body. They are wonderful people who should be an example to us.

Regardless, back to Asian hate crimes.

Who commits them?

Black on Asian Crime Statistics (financegeek.org) (https://www.financegeek.org/chinese/black-on-asian-crime/)

I used to respect you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 20, 2021, 05:38:33 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 20, 2021, 05:20:10 PM

I used to respect you.

847 has lost OAM's respect

all is lost

will you ever recover 

there's always hope

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 20, 2021, 05:41:47 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 20, 2021, 05:20:10 PM

I used to respect you.

did 847 make your list


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SczxwCSt1F8

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 20, 2021, 06:04:11 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2021, 09:26:28 AM

I understand @SFBadger96 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=51) . But, we still talk about the Spanish Flu, the Hong Kong Flu, etc.


Even CNN and MSNBC referred to this thing as the "Chinese Virus" early on, before they cancelled it and called it racist.

Still, I get it. I don't use that terminology much anymore, except when I'm pissed about it. And have not an ounce of Asian hate in my body. They are wonderful people who should be an example to us.

Regardless, back to Asian hate crimes.

Who commits them?

Black on Asian Crime Statistics (financegeek.org) (https://www.financegeek.org/chinese/black-on-asian-crime/)

Great post badge. I think it takes chutzpah to post those stats- which are no secret

so a lunatic goes off and kills a bunch of people. It hurts to continue to see it. We see it virtually EVERY weekend.

all, not some, but all of the evidence and facts point to the lunatic having a sex addiction. His words, his history, those who know him.

Because he is a white guy- the big lie comes out from the MSN, and others.  It’s a a hate crime.  It’s white supremacy.  The big lie.  Not a shred of evidence to support it.  Nothing. 

Not a word about the mass shootings In Illinois and Indiana recently, by black men. Not a word about the black men caught assaulting Asians recently.

So many now-thankfully-commenting on the media’s role in causing more racial tension and hate with their blatant dishonesty- to push their agenda.

I wonder if they understand their false cries are watering down the urgency for when it is real. People are now just rolling their eyes and saying “whatever.”   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 20, 2021, 06:40:36 PM

The Spanish flu didn't originate in Spain.  Because they were not in the war, they could report on it.  The news was quashed in France, GB, and the US, and Germany.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 20, 2021, 09:16:20 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 20, 2021, 06:04:11 PM

People are now just rolling their eyes and saying “whatever.”   

No they're not.  Just you people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 20, 2021, 09:31:22 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 20, 2021, 09:16:20 PM

No they're not.  Just you people.

Yes.  They are. And they are saying so. 

but- whatever    

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 21, 2021, 08:55:44 AM

Ebola is named after the river in the Congo where it was first identified.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 21, 2021, 10:13:09 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 21, 2021, 08:55:44 AM

Ebola is named after the river in the Congo where it was first identified.

It was actually named for a river near there, not the closest river, as I recall.  They were confused.

Disease is often named for a person or place, it's not the end of the world.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 21, 2021, 10:21:27 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 21, 2021, 10:13:09 AM

It was actually named for a river near there, not the closest river, as I recall.  They were confused.

Disease is often named for a person or place, it's not the end of the world.

I guarantee you if covid had originated in the US it would be called the American virus

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 21, 2021, 10:28:57 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 20, 2021, 06:40:36 PM

The Spanish flu didn't originate in Spain.  Because they were not in the war, they could report on it.  The news was quashed in France, GB, and the US, and Germany.

Yes that was my understanding that the 1st reports came out of there hence the title.Not sure if combatants knew or not as the horrific battle casualties was the focus

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 21, 2021, 10:34:01 AM

I have visited four American cemeteries in  France.  Many of the dates are 1919, clearly non-war related (mostly).  The flu killed far more than died in battle.

Estimates are that 500 million got sick, a third of the global population, and 50 million died.

This is scary obviously to contemplate today where travel is far more extensive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 21, 2021, 10:41:38 AM

Ya,last spring there were many pics posted from that time period and people wearing masks - lots of people

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 21, 2021, 10:47:36 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 21, 2021, 10:41:38 AM

Ya,last spring there were many pics posted from that time period and people wearing masks - lots of people

was one of them Dr Fauci

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 21, 2021, 12:24:26 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 20, 2021, 11:32:22 AM

Yep. Playing 18 in about an hour. So I have to forget everything I learned yesterday because it's too early to integrate into a full swing...

...and I don't want to be at a disadvantage in our high stakes ($1/hole) skins game!

we play for quarters
I'd rather play for dollars, but.......... some folks don't

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 21, 2021, 12:53:54 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 21, 2021, 12:24:26 PM

we play for quarters
I'd rather play for dollars, but.......... some folks don't

I played some sh!t golf yesterday... Got around in a +33 at a pretty easy course. 

But my good holes happened when it counted--won 11 skins despite only winning 5 holes...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 21, 2021, 01:16:59 PM

pick your spots to swoop in and grab the money!

shit golf here yesterday but the wind was 25-30 mph

I always tell my partners, today isn't the day to break 80, the windy day is the time to break 100

going back at it again in a couple hours.  30-35 mph this afternoon

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 21, 2021, 02:29:45 PM

The winds here in Florida- this time of year- are BRUTAL on your game.  

I played a tough course last Wednesday afternoon in high winds.  Shot 104.  Played the same course Friday early (first t-time) before the wind got up.  Shot 81. ( much more normal score)  Actually hit the ball better on the Wednesday. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 21, 2021, 03:02:06 PM

We had a nice lunch on the top deck of a restaurant today, it was sunny and warm, and then cloudy and the wind would pick up and be chilly, and the sunny and warm again.

Traffic has really picked back up.  I was spoiled for a while.  Even the side streets are often jammed.

I'm going to plant tomatoes tomorrow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 21, 2021, 03:13:03 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 21, 2021, 12:53:54 PM

I played some sh!t golf yesterday... Got around in a +33 at a pretty easy course.

Hell you got your money's worth and more exercise - that's a win in my book

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 21, 2021, 03:18:23 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 21, 2021, 01:16:59 PM

I always tell my partners, today isn't the day to break 80, the windy day is the time to break 100

Try casting your fly fishing match the hatch nymphs in that,luckily I don't fly fish 😎

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 22, 2021, 03:22:21 PM

1000-HP C8 Corvette Versus Porsche Taycan Turbo: Drag Race (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a35903098/1000-hp-c8-corvette-vs-porsche-taycan-turbo/?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR3vN1s5cXyQcFhQJU1rZEEmUu8u_Qc37aNo5GKSYHQevChpaM0qaIJM67I)

Kinda fun, a twin turbo C8 Vette vs the Taycan electric called a "turbo".

The Vette had a lot of work done on it, over 1,000 hp on the dyno, but the Taycan is AWD.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SFBadger96 on March 22, 2021, 03:30:20 PM

For what it's worth--and I'm unlikely to be drawn very far into this--the point of my earlier post is not that any one person is racist, or that using that phrase is inherently racist, but that the use of phrases like that one has negative consequences--at the very least potential for negative consequences, without any contrary positive attributes. If using the phrase is hurtful to Asian Americans (in the case of the piece I posted, my high school classmate's feelings are hurt), why use it? Because the Spanish Flu--from 100 years ago--also has a geography in one of the common ways to refer to it?

While you may bristle at her opinion (you certainly bristle at mine), her very real perspective, as a resident of northern Virginia is this (verbatim from her Facebook post): 
"I'm Chinese and terrified for myself, my family & community. Today on the blog I'm asking for your help to be an ally to me and my fellow Asians."

It is true that there is no direct evidence (that I'm aware of) tying the Atlanta shooting to COVID-19 or even, necessarily, racism. It is also true that since the advent of the pandemic, anti-Asian hate crimes are way up in the United States. That being the case, why continue to use this term?

Badge--I appreciate your willingness to reconsider the term.

This isn't "cancel culture," it's decency (empathy) for your fellow Americans. You can use whatever term you like, but there are good reasons not to.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 22, 2021, 03:42:25 PM

Is there evidence that Asian hate crimes are way up over the past year?  Do we have data to track such a thing?  How much is it up?  If there had been a gradual rise over time and then it increased marginally, I wouldn't call that "way up".

I have found no data, but I didn't look very hard.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 22, 2021, 03:54:58 PM

I'd also think a person who attacks an Asian because anyone calls it the "Chinese virus" has other issues, and may need little to cause them to attack someone who looks different from them.  I'm sure none of us thought "Oh, China flu, let's go roust some Asians".  It makes zero sense.

VERIFY: Anti-Asian hate crimes rising during COVID-19 pandemic | abc10.com (https://www.abc10.com/article/news/verify/verify-data-show-asian-hate-crimes-rising-during-covid-pandemic/507-ee3f615f-14b2-49dc-b3e6-a28e5a5cbac1)

The Center for Study of Hate & Extremism published a report (https://www.csusb.edu/sites/default/files/FACT SHEET- Anti-Asian Hate 2020 3.2.21.pdf) documenting changes in hate crime patterns in 2020 in 16 American cities. In those 16 cities, which include most of the United States’ largest cities, anti-Asian hate crimes rose by 149% in 2020 while overall hate crimes dropped by seven percent.
In 2019, there were 49 documented cases of hate crimes with anti-Asian bias in those 16 cities, while in 2020 there were 122 such cases. The total number of hate crimes documented in those cities was 1,845 in 2019 and 1,717 in 2020.
While the sample size is small, the increase is clearly there. That’s more than double the number of hate crimes from the year before.
Normally, the FBI compiles the data on hate crimes across the United States, but they don’t publish their annual report until November of the following year. That means we have their 2019 data (https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2019/topic-pages/victims.pdf), but not their 2020 data.

That isn't much of a base size on which to base firm conclusions, and the vast majority of hate crimes had nothing to do with Asians.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 22, 2021, 04:01:12 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/dyuyKwL.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 22, 2021, 04:31:49 PM

Quote from: SFBadger96 on March 22, 2021, 03:30:20 PM

For what it's worth--and I'm unlikely to be drawn very far into this--the point of my earlier post is not that any one person is racist, or that using that phrase is inherently racist, but that the use of phrases like that one has negative consequences--at the very least potential for negative consequences, without any contrary positive attributes. If using the phrase is hurtful to Asian Americans (in the case of the piece I posted, my high school classmate's feelings are hurt), why use it? Because the Spanish Flu--from 100 years ago--also has a geography in one of the common ways to refer to it?

While you may bristle at her opinion (you certainly bristle at mine), her very real perspective, as a resident of northern Virginia is this (verbatim from her Facebook post):
"I'm Chinese and terrified for myself, my family & community. Today on the blog I'm asking for your help to be an ally to me and my fellow Asians."

It is true that there is no direct evidence (that I'm aware of) tying the Atlanta shooting to COVID-19 or even, necessarily, racism. It is also true that since the advent of the pandemic, anti-Asian hate crimes are way up in the United States. That being the case, why continue to use this term?

Badge--I appreciate your willingness to reconsider the term.

This isn't "cancel culture," it's decency (empathy) for your fellow Americans. You can use whatever term you like, but there are good reasons not to.

SF- I personally agree with this entire post.

furthermore if I Ever were to personally witness racial hate in person or on social media or texts with the circles I run in, I would personally try to stop it at the source including putting myself in physical danger.  That’s how strongly I feel about it and why I don’t use that terminology. 

hopefully, you understood from my post -what I have objected to is when hate crimes are called hate crimes, but there’s really no evidence to support that they are actually racially motivated in anyway shape or form. Looking at some of the statistics and posts just before this one, I wonder who and how they decide if something is a hate crime.

I saw a video yesterday of a black man sucker punching a white police officer and breaking his jaw. Was that a hate crime? I don’t know for sure but I highly doubt it as it was a charged situation with drugs involved. Unfortunately if the colors were reversed there would be many including the Talking Heads who would be calling it a hate crime.  That is the main point I was making. Followed by the harm that is doing to the real cause of eliminating racial tension. That accusation has been so often thrown out there where it obviously does not exist- folks are becoming numb to it.  And that is sad. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 22, 2021, 05:29:10 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 22, 2021, 04:01:12 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/dyuyKwL.png)

NYC = 833%  holy moly

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 22, 2021, 05:36:44 PM

Deadly hate crime levels surge in latest FBI reporting - CNNPolitics (https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/16/politics/hate-crimes-fbi-report/index.html)

"Surge", note the use of that word here.

The latest report found that 7,314 criminal hate crime incidents were reported to the FBI in 2019, an increase of 194 incidents since 2018.

Now, imagine your basketball team averaged 73 points this year up from 71 points last year.  Would you consider that a "surge" in offensive production?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 22, 2021, 05:41:58 PM

Or we could look at this chart:

(https://i.imgur.com/YzC4iOc.png)

There is a pretty clear TREND, there is no "SURGE" in my view.  The trend could be in part due to more extensive reportage.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 22, 2021, 05:53:57 PM

I have learned to distrust headlines, news from an unnamed highly placed person who should know, and FB memes.

And of course folks from Eastern Michigan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 22, 2021, 05:58:49 PM

Quote from: SFBadger96 on March 22, 2021, 03:30:20 PM

It is true that there is no direct evidence (that I'm aware of) tying the Atlanta shooting to COVID-19 or even, necessarily, racism. It is also true that since the advent of the pandemic, anti-Asian hate crimes are way up in the United States. That being the case, why continue to use this term?

It's this type of inevitability that suggests it's more stupidity than it is true racism.  Most of those perps aren't racist against Asians, Asians just happen to be on their infantile minds.  
If the virus started in Nepal, hate crimes against sherpas would be up 273%.  If it started in Mexico, they'd want to build a wall or something.
.
The fact that say, a politician, hears a virus is spreading and originated in China - they can predict hate crimes vs East Asians will jump - is evidence that "We the people" are idiots.  The masses are cavemen, and their ire is drawn towards the carousel of targets put in front of them.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 22, 2021, 06:11:14 PM

I "think" someone who shoots 8 people, 6 of whom are Asians working in the sex industry, because he has a sex addition, purportedly, is off in his head to the point that a clear motive may be impossible to ascertain.

We never found a motive for the Las Vegas shootings.  Some people are just nuts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 22, 2021, 06:32:56 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 22, 2021, 06:11:14 PM

We never found a motive for the Las Vegas shootings.  Some people are just nuts.

https://youtu.be/efHCdKb5UWc

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 22, 2021, 06:54:08 PM

I try and check every instance of a thing that is "common knowledge".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 22, 2021, 07:12:41 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 22, 2021, 05:58:49 PM

It's this type of inevitability that suggests it's more stupidity than it is true racism.  Most of those perps aren't racist against Asians, Asians just happen to be on their infantile minds. 
If the virus started in Nepal, hate crimes against sherpas would be up 273%.  If it started in Mexico, they'd want to build a wall or something.
.
The fact that say, a politician, hears a virus is spreading and originated in China - they can predict hate crimes vs East Asians will jump - is evidence that "We the people" are idiots.  The masses are cavemen, and their ire is drawn towards the carousel of targets put in front of them. 

May I agree with you?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 22, 2021, 07:52:06 PM

Please do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 22, 2021, 11:21:23 PM

Apropos of this discussion, I finally made something out of my Hunan cookbook.

Yellow salted cod with red chilis and stir fried mixed mushrooms.

Damn delicious.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 22, 2021, 11:35:54 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 22, 2021, 06:32:56 PM

https://youtu.be/efHCdKb5UWc

by far the greatest comic book movie period, and also the best movie trilogy ever made.

The only comic book movie in that league was that Logan movie.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 22, 2021, 11:41:16 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 22, 2021, 11:21:23 PM

Apropos of this discussion, I finally made something out of my Hunan cookbook.

Yellow salted cod with red chilis and stir fried mixed mushrooms.

Damn delicious.

I'm going to have to report this clear cut case of cultural appropriation to the California bureau of hate crime investigation. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 23, 2021, 12:40:14 AM

salted Cod - next thing you know it will be Lutefisk

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 23, 2021, 07:41:51 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 22, 2021, 11:21:23 PM

Apropos of this discussion, I finally made something out of my Hunan cookbook.

Yellow salted cod with red chilis and stir fried mixed mushrooms.

Damn delicious.

Oh man what cookbook is that?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 23, 2021, 08:01:57 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 22, 2021, 05:58:49 PM

It's this type of inevitability that suggests it's more stupidity than it is true racism.  Most of those perps aren't racist against Asians, Asians just happen to be on their infantile minds. 
If the virus started in Nepal, hate crimes against sherpas would be up 273%.  If it started in Mexico, they'd want to build a wall or something.
.
The fact that say, a politician, hears a virus is spreading and originated in China - they can predict hate crimes vs East Asians will jump - is evidence that "We the people" are idiots.  The masses are cavemen, and their ire is drawn towards the carousel of targets put in front of them. 

You can lump yourself into any group you wish. The rest of us adults capable of rational thought, will be just fine understanding that terms like the "China Virus" or "Wuhan Virus" don't support or even suggest that all Asians are guilty of something.

I work with a lady that is an immigrant from China. She is a very nice person and very good at her job. The last thing I ever would even think about is associating her with any virus that originated her country of origin. I believe most rational adults think the same way. It would seem that you either work with or are surrounded by idiots. But that does NOT make the rest of the country racist or idiots. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2021, 09:08:37 AM

1 - did you even read my post?
2 - please don't pin silly anecdotal evidence on me
.
The masses are stupid because a nasty virus originating in China virtually GUARANTEED an increase in nasty behavior towards Asian-Americans here.  It was a certainty.  And that's the embarrassing part.  This has nothing to do with ONE woman you know or who I work with.  
.
Honestly, some of you aren't able to fathom anymore more than your own personal anecdotal evidences.  It's quite alarming.  Widen your circle, friend.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2021, 09:19:59 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 23, 2021, 07:41:51 AM

Oh man what cookbook is that?

Written by Fuschia Dunlop, who does some writing at seriouseats.com as well. She also has a Sichuan book I bought at the same time, and need to start cooking something out of that soon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 23, 2021, 09:32:33 AM

You are only digging yourself deeper homey. 

(https://wildchina.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Fuchsia_BlogCover-1.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 23, 2021, 09:38:18 AM

This is the most blatant case of imperson-Asian since Dr Daka, from the 1940s Batman serials. O0

(https://13thdimension.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Batman-1943-9.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 23, 2021, 09:49:43 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 22, 2021, 05:58:49 PM

It's this type of inevitability that suggests it's more stupidity than it is true racism.  Most of those perps aren't racist against Asians, Asians just happen to be on their infantile minds. 
If the virus started in Nepal, hate crimes against sherpas would be up 273%.  If it started in Mexico, they'd want to build a wall or something.
.
The fact that say, a politician, hears a virus is spreading and originated in China - they can predict hate crimes vs East Asians will jump - is evidence that "We the people" are idiots.  The masses are cavemen, and their ire is drawn towards the carousel of targets put in front of them. 

How are things going at the border? I hear there is no crisis to be concerned about.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2021, 09:57:50 AM

What's the success rate of walls?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 23, 2021, 10:03:46 AM

Probably better if they were done. Who knows who is getting into our country now. 

The border is not one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2021, 10:06:36 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2021, 09:57:50 AM

What's the success rate of walls?

A wall is an obvious barrier to any attempt to traverse a section of land.  They are not perfect obviously.  If monitored and manned, they can be quite effective if properly designed.

I'd rather walk along a path freely versus having to figure out how to traverse a wall.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2021, 10:11:31 AM

Yeah.  They see the wall, shrug, and go back to what they're escaping in the first place. 
Good plan.
.
Shit, why not put up huge signs saying WELCOME TO GUATEMALA all along our southern border?  It'll confuse them and they'll turn around and leave, right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2021, 10:13:00 AM

A wall makes it more difficult to enter, obviously, not impossible.  You can monitor a wall with fewer people than some area without a wall.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2021, 10:15:15 AM

And yet still ineffective, lol.  

There's this good quality about it and this positive thing and this other plus aspect.......AND IT STILL DOESN'T DO WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 23, 2021, 10:17:22 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 23, 2021, 10:13:00 AM

A wall makes it more difficult to enter, obviously, not impossible.  You can monitor a wall with fewer people than some area without a wall.

Have a little faith,baby,have a little faith

(https://i.imgur.com/RIDpPL3.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 23, 2021, 10:20:18 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2021, 10:15:15 AM

And yet still ineffective, lol. 

There's this good quality about it and this positive thing and this other plus aspect.......AND IT STILL DOESN'T DO WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO!

Interesting that the very first 2 things the dems did was to tear down the southern boarder wall and build a wall around the Capital

Hows your potted plant doing OAM

the dems are coming up with the biggest tax increase in three decades 

which will kill jobs and this is during our fight against the pandemic

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2021, 10:22:13 AM

A wall is NOT "ineffective" obviously, nor has Biden torn it down.

There is some very obvious and simple logic here that I painstakingly explained.  If you can't follow that, have at it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2021, 10:23:46 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 23, 2021, 10:20:18 AM

Interesting that the very first 2 things the dems did was to tear down the southern boarder wall and build a wall around the Capital

Hows your potted plant doing OAM

the dems are coming up with the biggest tax increase in three decades

which will kill jobs and this is during our fight against the pandemic

I'm not a Dem.  Check my voter registration.
Idk what the potted plant thing means.  
In my lifetime, every Rep. president has added more to the national debt than every Dem. president has.  Independents seem like Dems because the Rep. party is some sort of deformed version of its former self.  You could say it's transitioned to something it wasn't.  Yes, the Rep. party is trans.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2021, 10:25:26 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 23, 2021, 10:22:13 AM

A wall is NOT "ineffective" obviously, nor has Biden torn it down.

There is some very obvious and simple logic here that I painstakingly explained.  If you can't follow that, have at it.

Look up the effectiveness of walls.
Look up any and every "unclimbable" wall version and see it being scaled, usually very quickly and easily, often by a 12 year old.
Inform yourself beyond the logic of, "yeah, this makes sense."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 23, 2021, 10:29:48 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2021, 10:25:26 AM

Look up the effectiveness of walls.
Look up any and every "unclimbable" wall version and see it being scaled, usually very quickly and easily, often by a 12 year old.
Inform yourself beyond the logic of, "yeah, this makes sense."

a wall is never meant to be a stand alone deterrent but as an assisting tool

your potted plant is tearing down a wall and offering no human help to deter illegal immigration 

Its just catch and release covid and all

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2021, 10:34:06 AM

It's blatantly obvious that any wall is a deterrent, even Hadrian's Wall, which in many places was 3 feet high.

They didn't build it for their health.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2021, 10:56:36 AM

Pro-Trump lawyer Sidney Powell: Election-theft claims not statements of fact (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/23/pro-trump-lawyer-sidney-powell-election-theft-claims-not-statements-of-fact.html)


I am all astonishment.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 23, 2021, 11:00:38 AM

The wall in Berlin was fairly effective. Over a period of almost 30 years, estimates are that around 5,000 made it through to the west, with over 100,000 attempted crossings. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 23, 2021, 11:02:22 AM

The wall around the Vatican is pretty effective, even though they wag their finger at others for building a wall. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2021, 11:07:23 AM

Humans don't build walls as deterrents without understanding that they are in fact reasonable deterrents.  To claim otherwise is absurd.  To claim they are perfect is almos as absurd.

Folks wondered for a while why Hadrian's Wall was so low.  It was not meant to deter the Scots from coming over, it was to make it difficult for them to take sheep and cattle and horses back with them.  It also was a clear line, and the Scots knew if they were caught on the wrong side, the Romans would kill or enslave them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 23, 2021, 11:26:54 AM

We went to this place, on a side tour from Firenze a couple of years ago.

(https://i.imgur.com/qgTIAHH.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2021, 11:30:51 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 23, 2021, 10:34:06 AM

It's blatantly obvious that any wall is a deterrent, even Hadrian's Wall, which in many places was 3 feet high.

They didn't build it for their health.

So anything that took time and effort is worthwhile?  That's what I'm gathering from your post.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.  
You're now advocating that a 3' wall was effective.  That's the corner you've painted yourself into.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2021, 11:32:38 AM

I wonder if the hill you're willing to die on is anymore than 3' high.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2021, 11:39:40 AM

did you read this part???

Folks wondered for a while why Hadrian's Wall was so low.  It was not meant to deter the Scots from coming over, it was to make it difficult for them to take sheep and cattle and horses back with them.  It also was a clear line, and the Scots knew if they were caught on the wrong side, the Romans would kill or enslave them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2021, 11:41:42 AM

Of course.

I guess they didn't have spray paint back then to draw a line instead.

Maybe moats are underutilized.  You know, inverted walls, full of water and sharks and alligators.  Probably much cheaper, too.  Oh wait, the Rio Grande is there.  Nevermind.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2021, 11:43:34 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 23, 2021, 07:41:51 AM

Oh man what cookbook is that?

These recipes both came out of the first one, but the second book is also pretty awesome.

Revolutionary Chinese Cookbook - Recipes From Hunan Province

 (https://www.amazon.com/Revolutionary-Chinese-Cookbook-Recipes-Province/dp/0393062228/ref=sr_1_1?adFormat=grid&adId=searchbar&adMode=manual&adType=smart&creativeASIN=searchbar&dchild=1&imprToken=HC24nywq9UUXTkWUvGk12g&impressionTimestamp=1616513988116&keywords=revolutionary+chinese+cooking+fuschia+dunlop&linkCode=w43&qid=1616514029&ref-refURL=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cfb51.com%2Fbig-ten%2Fin-other-news-18271%2F3794%2F&sig=undefined&sigts=undefined&slotNum=0&sr=8-1)The Food of Sichuan (https://www.amazon.com/Food-Sichuan-Fuchsia-Dunlop/dp/1408867559/ref=sr_1_2?adFormat=grid&adId=searchbar&adMode=manual&adType=smart&creativeASIN=searchbar&dchild=1&imprToken=HC24nywq9UUXTkWUvGk12g&impressionTimestamp=1616513988116&keywords=revolutionary+chinese+cooking+fuschia+dunlop&linkCode=w43&qid=1616514056&ref-refURL=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cfb51.com%2Fbig-ten%2Fin-other-news-18271%2F3794%2F&sig=undefined&sigts=undefined&slotNum=0&sr=8-2)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2021, 11:43:51 AM

AfroMan,

You've seen pics of the wall Trump was trying to build.  Would you rather scale that wall or walk across the border w/o any wall?

if the wall only kept the crippled and elderly and infants out is has some effectiveness

perhaps young able bodies can scale the wall, but bus loads can't be driven across

there's a difference

Ask the local border patrol agents if they'd rather  work with the help of a wall or nothing

hell the border patrol can't possibly be 100% effective, but they are still there doing their job

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2021, 11:45:52 AM

if the hill you're willing to die on is that nothing is 100% effective, than just send out welcome letters and hand out water bottles at the border to encourage as many illegals as possible

but wait, all that encouragement wouldn't be 100% effective, so......... why even try?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2021, 11:46:39 AM

This is a classic case of derangement, a stance taken SOLELY because some political figure was for it, so he's against it, despite clear logic and human experiences.

If he doesn't think a wall is a deterrent, fine with me, it says far more about OAM than walls.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2021, 11:54:33 AM

So we're not worried about the able-bodied illegal immigrants entering our country and killing and raping our citizens.  We just want the infants, elderly, and disabled to stay out?


I'm confused now.  Your propaganda is going both ways now.  So not only is the Rep. party trans, your talking points are bi.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2021, 11:55:54 AM

Just think, this all started after HB dared to agree with me.  
Shows him, for stepping out of line.  Back into the echo chamber with him!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2021, 11:56:06 AM

I feel he agrees that it's a minor deterrent, but not effective enough to be worthwhile

similar to other's thoughts of climate change.  The trillions of dollars poured into the problem might not be worthwhile

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 23, 2021, 11:58:30 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2021, 11:54:33 AM

So not only is the Rep. party trans, your talking points are bi.

This comment lacks self awareness. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2021, 11:58:44 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2021, 11:54:33 AM

So we're not worried about the able-bodied illegal immigrants entering our country and killing and raping our citizens.  We just want the infants, elderly, and disabled to stay out?


I'm confused now.  Your propaganda is going both ways now.  So not only is the Rep. party trans, your talking points are bi.

I'm worried about all illegals coming into the country

even from Canada and other methods that have nothing to do with out border with Mexico
any deterrent is a good deterrent in my opinion

perhaps if fewer infants and elderly come across the border, fewer able bodied will accompany them?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2021, 12:10:44 PM

I see this "logic" on FB often, even about vaccines as I noted.  I have some ardent Trump supporters on FB who were claiming Trump basically did the vaccine on his own.

Now, those same folks claim they will not take the vaccine.  Just back in November they were hailing it as a masterful piece of Presidenting.

I suppose humans are for some reason highly inclined to confirmation bias and political bias.  We actually had training on examples of the former resulting in bad outcomes.

Now, one can logically opine that a wall is not worth the money, fine, but to claim no wall ever in human history was a deterrent is blatantly absurd.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2021, 12:12:29 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 23, 2021, 11:56:06 AM

I feel he agrees that it's a minor deterrent, but not effective enough to be worthwhile

similar to other's thoughts of climate change.  The trillions of dollars poured into the problem might not be worthwhile

That's where I am. A wall is a minor deterrent, with a very large price tag. 

But it's something politicians can point to and say "look at that big SHINY wall that *I* made happen!" even if it is merely a drop in the bucket as far as solving the issue.

It's optics. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2021, 12:15:14 PM

I THINK there are places along the border where a wall would be very useful.  BP states that.  There also places where it would be redundant or ineffective, you can't build one in the flood plain of a river for example.  But between San Diego and Tijuana?  Obviously it helps.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2021, 12:17:53 PM

yup, why not tear down that wall, Nancy???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 23, 2021, 12:59:17 PM

The sad part is- it seems that the overwhelming majority of American Citizens are in favor of LEGAL immigration.  But that gets discussed so rarely. 

I wonder what it would take financially to invest in proactively helping and vetting those who want to do it and speeding up the process so well, that the “demand” for illegal crossings would go down to a manageable level. 

A guy can dream....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2021, 01:08:44 PM

Yes, the illegals is the symptom of the larger issue:  the backlog of people trying to legally enter and become citizens.  But that's not sexy and the brilliant masses (I've been assured they're not idiots, despite hating Congress and NOT replacing them) don't vote for that kind of talk.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 23, 2021, 01:15:25 PM

Fro is definitely a free thinker that forms his own opinions instead of parroting MSM talking points.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 23, 2021, 01:17:27 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2021, 11:43:34 AM

These recipes both came out of the first one, but the second book is also pretty awesome.

Revolutionary Chinese Cookbook - Recipes From Hunan Province

 (https://www.amazon.com/Revolutionary-Chinese-Cookbook-Recipes-Province/dp/0393062228/ref=sr_1_1?adFormat=grid&adId=searchbar&adMode=manual&adType=smart&creativeASIN=searchbar&dchild=1&imprToken=HC24nywq9UUXTkWUvGk12g&impressionTimestamp=1616513988116&keywords=revolutionary+chinese+cooking+fuschia+dunlop&linkCode=w43&qid=1616514029&ref-refURL=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cfb51.com%2Fbig-ten%2Fin-other-news-18271%2F3794%2F&sig=undefined&sigts=undefined&slotNum=0&sr=8-1)The Food of Sichuan (https://www.amazon.com/Food-Sichuan-Fuchsia-Dunlop/dp/1408867559/ref=sr_1_2?adFormat=grid&adId=searchbar&adMode=manual&adType=smart&creativeASIN=searchbar&dchild=1&imprToken=HC24nywq9UUXTkWUvGk12g&impressionTimestamp=1616513988116&keywords=revolutionary+chinese+cooking+fuschia+dunlop&linkCode=w43&qid=1616514056&ref-refURL=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cfb51.com%2Fbig-ten%2Fin-other-news-18271%2F3794%2F&sig=undefined&sigts=undefined&slotNum=0&sr=8-2)

Ordered the second one. Love reading on the porch and love reading a good cookbook. Reading Momofuku right now and want to attempt the bahn mi recipe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2021, 01:20:44 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on March 23, 2021, 01:15:25 PM

Fro is definitely a free thinker that forms his own opinions instead of parroting MSM talking points.

You guys are so far from the center that everyone else looks radically left.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2021, 01:26:49 PM

I love that the idea of a wall is going to turn back people driven away from their homeland and have walked 800 miles.  The balls you have to even suggest it is truly remarkable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2021, 01:29:58 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 23, 2021, 12:59:17 PM

The sad part is- it seems that the overwhelming majority of American Citizens are in favor of LEGAL immigration.  But that gets discussed so rarely.

I wonder what it would take financially to invest in proactively helping and vetting those who want to do it and speeding up the process so well, that the “demand” for illegal crossings would go down to a manageable level.

A guy can dream....

Legal immigration at what annual limits? Current or higher than current?

Personally I think the best way to reduce illegal immigration is to create a guest worker program that is relatively easy to enter, doesn't create a path to citizenship on its own, and virtually unlimited in number. Tons of different ways to do it and make it trackable, so that you know where they're living, they have a unique identifier for employment so you know if they're remaining employed, and you can require all sorts of things like a quarterly in-person check-in to make sure they're physically still around (kinda like a parole officer, but I'd hate to use that term lol)...

This would ensure that the people that we actually want here for economic reasons can get in, which means that anyone who is trying to get in illegally is probably doing so for bad reasons, and it's a lot easier to focus on the illegal immigrants.

Seems like it would make most people who are in favor of legal immigration happy. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2021, 01:32:36 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 23, 2021, 01:17:27 PM

Ordered the second one. Love reading on the porch and love reading a good cookbook. Reading Momofuku right now and want to attempt the bahn mi recipe.

I do love some bahn mi. I did a pork belly bahn mi years ago with char siu marinade... I need to do that again. What I need is a recipe for the pickled carrot and daikon to really make it solid though. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 23, 2021, 01:38:18 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2021, 01:29:58 PM

Legal immigration at what annual limits? Current or higher than current?

Personally I think the best way to reduce illegal immigration is to create a guest worker program that is relatively easy to enter, doesn't create a path to citizenship on its own, and virtually unlimited in number. Tons of different ways to do it and make it trackable, so that you know where they're living, they have a unique identifier for employment so you know if they're remaining employed, and you can require all sorts of things like a quarterly in-person check-in to make sure they're physically still around (kinda like a parole officer, but I'd hate to use that term lol)...

This would ensure that the people that we actually want here for economic reasons can get in, which means that anyone who is trying to get in illegally is probably doing so for bad reasons, and it's a lot easier to focus on the illegal immigrants.

Seems like it would make most people who are in favor of legal immigration happy.

I'd be mostly in favor this. How do you handle heath care and housing?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 23, 2021, 01:40:14 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2021, 01:32:36 PM

I do love some bahn mi. I did a pork belly bahn mi years ago with char siu marinade... I need to do that again. What I need is a recipe for the pickled carrot and daikon to really make it solid though.

There's a place here that does a smoked brisket banh mi with pork pate'.  It's pretty freaking great.  

Man, now I know what I want for lunch!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 23, 2021, 01:52:59 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2021, 01:20:44 PM

You guys are so far from the center that everyone else looks radically left.

You are essentially just an MSNBC-themed pull string dummy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2021, 01:53:54 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 23, 2021, 01:38:18 PM

I'd be mostly in favor this. How do you handle heath care and housing?

For health care, the same way we do with Americans. There's an Obamacare mandate (that has no enforcement any more) that they have to have health insurance. I wouldn't offer them the subsidy that is offered to citizens though. 

I don't know if perhaps you'd make them prove quarterly that they're maintaining insurance to stay within the guest worker program? Could work...

As for housing, that's their problem. I'd require them to have a valid address, but it's not something we'd be required to "handle" for them. 

Of course if someone is coming in, they may have to be given a grace period (say 1 month) to find a job, to find housing, and to prove they get health insurance. Still better than how we do it now though. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 23, 2021, 02:22:14 PM

And.... here we go again with the racist, woke and as usual factually challenged crowd.  

🙄

https://www.foxnews.com/media/boulder-colorado-shooter-meena-harris-kamala-niece-tweet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 23, 2021, 02:33:59 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 23, 2021, 02:22:14 PM

And.... here we go again with the racist, woke and as usual factually challenged crowd. 

🙄

https://www.foxnews.com/media/boulder-colorado-shooter-meena-harris-kamala-niece-tweet

I was wondering how long it would take for the dems to use this tragic event for their own political gain

how unfortunate for them it was not a white man

but they will still find a way to spin it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 23, 2021, 02:37:31 PM

how also unfortunate for the dems that the Colorado shooter used a hand gun instead of what they call an assault weapon

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2021, 02:58:25 PM

I thought it was unfortunate for the 10 dead people.  But please, keep obsessing over the "bad people."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 23, 2021, 03:12:53 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2021, 01:32:36 PM

I do love some bahn mi. I did a pork belly bahn mi years ago with char siu marinade... I need to do that again. What I need is a recipe for the pickled carrot and daikon to really make it solid though.

Cribbing from my book 
Brine

• 1 cup hot water
• 1/2 cup rice wine vinegar
• 6 tablespoons sugar
• 2.5 teaspoons kosher salt

Julienne the vegetables at about 3/16 inches. Brine separately at least a day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 23, 2021, 03:15:04 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2021, 02:58:25 PM

I thought it was unfortunate for the 10 dead people.  But please, keep obsessing over the "bad people."

Well I think we agree again.  Here you have some nutball slaughtering innocent people- ruining countless lives.  That is beyond tragic. 

but like clockwork- the talking heads are seizing the opportunity to make it about race- and openly condemn an entire race ( and in this case- the wrong one).  
 Can I assume that bothers you?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 23, 2021, 03:22:14 PM

Let me add- completely false narrative.  

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2019/08/51-mass-shooters-2019-were-black-only-29-were-daniel-greenfield/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2021, 03:27:47 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 23, 2021, 12:59:17 PM

The sad part is- it seems that the overwhelming majority of American Citizens are in favor of LEGAL immigration.  But that gets discussed so rarely.

I wonder what it would take financially to invest in proactively helping and vetting those who want to do it and speeding up the process so well, that the “demand” for illegal crossings would go down to a manageable level.

A guy can dream....

I heard Biden had a dream and was prepared to do something along the lines of easing up on legal immigration in his first 100 days.  Maybe an executive order was signed and it somehow didn't become a major news story

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 23, 2021, 03:32:45 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 23, 2021, 03:27:47 PM

I heard Biden had a dream and was prepared to do something along the lines of easing up on legal immigration in his first 100 days.  Maybe an executive order was signed and it somehow didn't become a major news story

I think the order he signed only makes illegal immigration easier. 

https://humanevents.com/2021/01/21/biden-signs-several-executive-orders-that-help-illegal-immigrants/

I realize this is an opinion piece- but just ignore the opinion and look at data supplied. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 23, 2021, 03:45:58 PM

there's a major class problem in this country- not a race one. for most people in america- racism just doesn't track- it's not part of their everyday lives.

the elite like to use racism and "wokeism" to divide and district from the real problems we have in this country. if the have nots ever decided to wake the f***k up and turn the system on it's head- the haves would be f***d.

Divide and conquer. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 23, 2021, 03:52:11 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 23, 2021, 02:22:14 PM

And.... here we go again with the racist, woke and as usual factually challenged crowd. 

🙄

https://www.foxnews.com/media/boulder-colorado-shooter-meena-harris-kamala-niece-tweet

who is this bitch again? she was shot out of some dudes nutsack into Kamala Harris' sister and people are suppose to give a flying f**k about her or what she says.....why? typically in the past, to gain notoriety or fame- one had to actually accomplish something worth notoriety or fame.

Social media absolutely sucks ass and is ruining the world. Reality TV started it. Social media will end it. The internet social media just a bunch of animals and retards on twitter and facebook.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 23, 2021, 03:57:30 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 23, 2021, 03:52:11 PM

who is this bitch again? she was shot out of some dudes nutsack into Kamala Harris' sister and people are suppose to give a flying f**k about her or what she says.....why? typically in the past, to gain notoriety or fame- one had to actually accomplish something worth notoriety or fame.

Social media absolutely sucks ass and is ruining the world. Reality TV started it. Social media will end it. The internet social media just a bunch of animals and retards on twitter and facebook.

which is one reason this forum is the only social media I do

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 23, 2021, 04:02:41 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 23, 2021, 03:57:30 PM

which is one reason this forum is the only social media I do

this isn't social media. this is a league. a league of gentlemen. extraordinary gentlemen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2021, 04:03:13 PM

I know liberals who believe most of the media is a right wing operation, CNN, CBS, MSNBC, the lot.  Obviously more conservatives think that way in reverse.  The reality is, if you think MOST people out there are hard right wingers, it means YOU are a left winger, and vice versa, it's inherent.

I think the media is largely a crock.  It's similar to listening to Game Day and worrying about their predictions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 23, 2021, 04:26:42 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 23, 2021, 03:52:11 PM

who is this bitch again? she was shot out of some dudes nutsack into Kamala Harris' sister and people are suppose to give a flying f**k about her or what she says.....why? typically in the past, to gain notoriety or fame- one had to actually accomplish something worth notoriety or fame.

Social media absolutely sucks ass and is ruining the world. Reality TV started it. Social media will end it. The internet social media just a bunch of animals and retards on twitter and facebook.

Well, she was an adviser for Kamala Harris during the campaign, so it's reasonable to deduce that her beliefs and the current VP's beliefs align in some fairly important ways.
I think that's worthy of note, though certainly not anything earth-shattering.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2021, 04:30:28 PM

Google confirms massive Atlanta expansion in 1105 West Peachtree tower - Atlanta Business Chronicle (bizjournals.com) (https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2021/03/23/google-confirms-atlanta-expansion.html?ana=e_atl_bn_breakingnews_breakingnews&j=90554615&t=Breaking)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2021, 04:37:15 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 23, 2021, 04:26:42 PM

Well, she was an adviser for Kamala Harris during the campaign, so it's reasonable to deduce that her beliefs and the current VP's beliefs align in some fairly important ways.
I think that's worthy of note, though certainly not anything earth-shattering.

note worthy


my take is that she was given a position as "adviser" and therefore an income

probably more money than she was making before
I have no idea what she was doing before the campaign and not trying to minimize whatever it was.  Perhaps she's very intelligent and experienced and has impressive credentials.

I hope so, but Mdot doesn't appear to believe this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2021, 04:45:27 PM

Images: $1.5B Arthur M. Blank Hospital is beginning to rise up | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/childrens-healthcare-arthur-m-blank-hospital-falcons-united)

One hears bad thing about the wealthy, I'd like to give some credit to this dude.  They did name it for him, but he also donated $200 mil for it, a children's hospital.

(https://i.imgur.com/D6kUESl.png)

This is maybe three miles from us?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 23, 2021, 05:04:15 PM

How Will We Solve This Epidemic of People Coming to This Country to Work Hard and Make It Great

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2021, 05:22:37 PM

Rendering of the condos proposed about two blocks from us, I'm not a fan of the looks:

(https://i.imgur.com/GbEQP3B.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/OaX70qT.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 23, 2021, 05:30:51 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 23, 2021, 05:04:15 PM

How Will We Solve This Epidemic of People Coming to This Country to Work Hard and Make It Great

Not all of them have that intention.

Far too many of our legal citizens don't have that intention.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2021, 05:48:17 PM

I've been on the edge of our immigration process and believe it needs fixing, but I also believe strongly we need a method of legal immigration, not some completely out of control mess at the border.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2021, 07:37:25 PM

first step, how many immigrants total do we want to allow per year?  illegal and legal combined?

then work back from there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SFBadger96 on March 23, 2021, 08:23:24 PM

Instead of complaining about one thing or another...

Every now and again Daniel Inouye ("ee-noh-ay") shows up in my consciousness, whether because of news or social media or TV or whatever.

If they made a movie just about this guy's war service people would dismiss it as beyond the pale.

Dude is told he can't enlist because he's effectively an enemy of the country of his birth, being of Japanese descent. Dude continues to insist on enlisting. Finally, government decides to form the 442nd Regimental Combat Team, enlisted soldiers of Japanese descent, white officers. Sends to Europe, rather than fighting the Japanese in the Pacific.

He and the 442nd are sent to break through to the "Lost Battalion," a battalion of the 141st Infantry, formerly the Texas National Guard. The rest of the 141st weren't able to get to the battalion surrounded by the German military. The 442nd is sent in. By the time the fighting is over, the 211 remaining soldiers in the Lost Battalion are rescued, and the 3000 man-442nd is down to 800 at fighting strength. Platoon Sergeant Inouye receives the Bronze Star for valor and is promoted with a battlefield commission to second lieutenant. He credits two silver dollars with stopping a bullet that hit him in the chest.

After some rest, the 442nd is sent to Italy to help break the German's "Gothic Line," a heavily defended region in the mountains. He leads his platoon up the hill, and while attempting to flank part of the German defenses, three fortified German machine gun positions open up on the platoon from a distance of 40 yards. Lieutenant Inouye gets up to attack and is shot in the stomach. He crawls to within five yards of the first position and takes it out with his grenades. Then he charges the second and guns the Germans down with his Thompson submachine gun. One machine gun emplacement to go.

He crawls from the second nest toward the third and final position and gets to ten yards away. A first down away. So far, this is your Hollywood war epic. Now is the part you wouldn't believe if Hollywood told you it happened: he grabs a grenade, pulls the pin, and...

A German rifle grenade, fired from that ten-yard distance, hits the elbow of his throwing arm--but doesn't explode. It does, however, sever the hand, still clutching the now live grenade, from his body. he uses his left hand to peel the grenade out of his severed right hand, and throws it at the third machine gun bunker, killing the soldier who just shot him with the rifle grenade, and then gets up and charges the position, killing another German with his Thompson in his left hand. He's shot--again--this time in the leg, and loses consciousness, while his platoon overruns the enemy.

Because he's had so much morphine while on the field of battle, he doesn't get any further sedation for his field surgery--during which is he conscious.

Goes home, becomes the first American of Japanese descent to serve in the House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate, where he was widely respected by folks on both sides of the aisle.*

*Side note, in the hospital recovering from his injuries he meets and befriends future Senators Bob Dole and Philip Hart.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2021, 08:50:22 PM

nice story

seems I've heard it before

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 23, 2021, 09:12:04 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 23, 2021, 07:37:25 PM

first step, how many immigrants total do we want to allow per year?  illegal and legal combined?

then work back from there

Hard to come up with a raw number. Population growth without immigration is pretty stagnant.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 23, 2021, 09:19:26 PM

How many immigrants?

'bout tree fiddy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 23, 2021, 09:24:55 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 23, 2021, 07:37:25 PM

first step, how many immigrants total do we want to allow per year?  illegal and legal combined?

then work back from there

as many as it takes to keep the dems in office

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 23, 2021, 09:58:44 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 23, 2021, 09:19:26 PM

How many immigrants?

'bout tree fiddy

😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2021, 10:28:39 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 23, 2021, 09:24:55 PM

as many as it takes to keep the dems in office

knock it off

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2021, 10:29:09 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 23, 2021, 09:24:55 PM

as many as it takes to keep the dems in office

and how many would that be?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2021, 10:30:22 PM

I assume we have a good idea of the number of legals in the past ten years

do we even have a credible number of illegals in the past ten years?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 23, 2021, 10:35:24 PM

Exactly one metric shit tonne. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 23, 2021, 10:55:04 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 23, 2021, 10:30:22 PM

I assume we have a good idea of the number of legals in the past ten years

do we even have a credible number of illegals in the past ten years?

media always says 11,000,000 but its got to be at least twice that amount

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 23, 2021, 10:57:09 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 23, 2021, 10:28:39 PM

knock it off

I wish I could but our Pres has opened the doors to thousands every day

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 23, 2021, 11:14:38 PM

lh320, I don't edit politics on this thread, but you often complain that "the other guys" are the ones bringing it up.  You do it at least as much, and maybe more.

I can assure you, you're not going to change anyone's mind on this forum.  So why bother.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 23, 2021, 11:27:32 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 23, 2021, 11:14:38 PM

lh320, I don't edit politics on this thread, but you often complain that "the other guys" are the ones bringing it up.  You do it at least as much, and maybe more.

I can assure you, you're not going to change anyone's mind on this forum.  So why bother.

I was under the impression that this thread could be used for politics

if not I wont post any 

I only complain when politics is brought up on a non political thread

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 23, 2021, 11:39:54 PM

The only thread on these "non-political forums" on this site that is actually edited for politics, is the Coronavirus thread.

This thread isn't edited for politics.  Whether or not it should be used for that subject is debatable, because most of y'all turn it into a complete shit show when you do so.

I suppose it's possible you only complain when others bring up politics on the Coronavirus thread, though.  If that really is the case, well then, carry on.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 23, 2021, 11:59:32 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 23, 2021, 11:39:54 PM

The only thread on these "non-political forums" on this site that is actually edited for politics, is the Coronavirus thread.

This thread isn't edited for politics.  Whether or not it should be used for that subject is debatable, because most of y'all turn it into a complete shit show when you do so.

I suppose it's possible you only complain when others bring up politics on the Coronavirus thread, though.  If that really is the case, well then, carry on.

thanks utee

if I convert at least one communist to democracy every day Im happy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 24, 2021, 12:16:00 AM

If prefer we go back to the old way, where politics exists only down in A51. We sometimes came close to that line talking policy, but since last spring we jumped the line with both feet and haven't looked back.

Let's just stop. Plenty of places online to do it. We don't need it here.

#kthxbye 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 24, 2021, 12:19:34 AM

Amen, brutha.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 24, 2021, 12:25:48 AM

thats fine just issue a formal directive and I'll abide

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 24, 2021, 12:29:19 AM

This isn't my place, I'm just a guest.  It's up to the site owners and operators.

They've given me license to take out the trash on the Coronavirus thread, and that's the one I care most about.

But it would be nice not to have to read through all the feces-flinging on all the other threads, too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 24, 2021, 01:05:01 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 24, 2021, 12:29:19 AM

This isn't my place, I'm just a guest.  It's up to the site owners and operators.

They've given me license to take out the trash on the Coronavirus thread, and that's the one I care most about.

But it would be nice not to have to read through all the feces-flinging on all the other threads, too.

well when one Texan asks another Texan for a favor I feel obligated to grant it so from here on I will not post politics on this thread

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 24, 2021, 01:06:22 AM

Well that's mighty fine of you.  Thanks!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2021, 08:32:39 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 23, 2021, 10:55:04 PM

media always says 11,000,000 but its got to be at least twice that amount

edited after reading the requests for no more political garbage

I was just trying to be humorous, perhaps a bit of pot stirring

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 24, 2021, 08:47:31 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 24, 2021, 08:32:39 AM

edited after reading the requests for no more political garbage

I was just trying to be humorous, perhaps a bit of pot stirring

Very uncharacteristic of you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2021, 09:40:16 AM

I blame the pandemic

starting to weigh on me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2021, 10:00:04 AM

Atlanta's largest hotel in ages set to launch construction next month | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/hotel-downtown-georgia-world-congress-center-hilton-mercedes-benz-stadium)

Another sign planners think COVID is "over".  Some projects here got delayed and are started to restart and some new ones are proposed and likely to start soon.

I'm curious why large hotel chains have SO many variant names.  I could see 5 or 6, maybe 8.

A lot of the variants seem scarcely different from the other in concept.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 24, 2021, 10:02:07 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 23, 2021, 04:03:13 PM

I know liberals who believe most of the media is a right wing operation, CNN, CBS, MSNBC, the lot.  Obviously more conservatives think that way in reverse.  The reality is, if you think MOST people out there are hard right wingers, it means YOU are a left winger, and vice versa, it's inherent.

I think the media is largely a crock.  It's similar to listening to Game Day and worrying about their predictions.

Media:  outrage --> viewership/clicks --> eyeballs --> ad revenue
.
The only fix for the media is making it's finances moot.  No commercials, no ads, no commentary.  Separate channels can do all of that for your company (not that it needs it).  Hopefully these bloated "not news just commentary" garbage human beings making all the dollars will move on and suck a different teat.  
.
Separate news & money like we do church & state.  FFS.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 24, 2021, 10:02:36 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 24, 2021, 10:00:04 AM

Atlanta's largest hotel in ages set to launch construction next month | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/hotel-downtown-georgia-world-congress-center-hilton-mercedes-benz-stadium)

Another sign planners think COVID is "over".  Some projects here got delayed and are started to restart and some new ones are proposed and likely to start soon.

I'm curious why large hotel chains have SO many variant names.  I could see 5 or 6, maybe 8.

A lot of the variants seem scarcely different from the other in concept.

My post wrapped to a new page, here's the last post on the previous one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2021, 10:13:07 AM

NPR has no commercials, and unlike many, I find them to be a "decent" source, not perfect, not always straight up, but decent enough that I read their web page, or scan for items of interest.

I know they are an anathema to conservatives, most of whom don't read their stuff of course. 

I also get a daily "summary" from the NYT in my in box.  Often, it's a nice summary of the key events of the day, and then it tries to get me to pay for the story in the NYT.

At times, I detect some pretty obvious bias, but it's obvious.  Obvious bias to me is better than the bias of burying a story or jumping to a conclusion based on unnamed sources.  These unnamed sources are fairly often playing the media to get something in press.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2021, 10:15:22 AM

This is the first part of that NYT summary for today for example:

Is bad news the only kind?

Bruce Sacerdote, an economics professor at Dartmouth College, noticed something last year about the Covid-19 television coverage that he was watching on CNN and PBS. It almost always seemed negative, regardless of what was he seeing in the data (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/a/1E-rAjXVpLi60lykP0CgLA~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRiPZu8P0TaaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vaW50ZXJhY3RpdmUvMjAyMC91cy9jb3JvbmF2aXJ1cy11cy1jYXNlcy5odG1sP2NhbXBhaWduX2lkPTkmZW1jPWVkaXRfbm5fMjAyMTAzMjQmaW5zdGFuY2VfaWQ9Mjg0MTMmbmw9dGhlLW1vcm5pbmcmcmVnaV9pZD0xNTMzNjg5MTAmc2VnbWVudF9pZD01NDA3MiZ0ZT0xJnVzZXJfaWQ9OGU1ZDJhMmI1ZTQ4YTY5NjU2MTkyY2MzYWYwYTkwMGNXA255dEIKYFi8FltgwMIWsFIRamNkb29tOUBnbWFpbC5jb21YBAAAAAA~) or hearing from scientists he knew.

When Covid cases were rising in the U.S., the news coverage emphasized the increase. When cases were falling, the coverage instead focused on those places where cases were rising. And when vaccine research began showing positive results, the coverage downplayed it, as far as Sacerdote could tell.

But he was not sure whether his perception was correct. To check, he began working with two other researchers, building a database of Covid coverage from every major network, CNN, Fox News, Politico, The New York Times and hundreds of other sources, in the U.S. and overseas. The researchers then analyzed it with a social-science technique (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/a/jqwgIS6iBVXbOAhvCOxHuQ~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRiPZu8P0TNaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuY3MudWljLmVkdS9-bGl1Yi9GQlMvc2VudGltZW50LWFuYWx5c2lzLmh0bWw_Y2FtcGFpZ25faWQ9OSZlbWM9ZWRpdF9ubl8yMDIxMDMyNCZpbnN0YW5jZV9pZD0yODQxMyZubD10aGUtbW9ybmluZyZyZWdpX2lkPTE1MzM2ODkxMCZzZWdtZW50X2lkPTU0MDcyJnRlPTEmdXNlcl9pZD04ZTVkMmEyYjVlNDhhNjk2NTYxOTJjYzNhZjBhOTAwY1cDbnl0QgpgWLwWW2DAwhawUhFqY2Rvb205QGdtYWlsLmNvbVgEAAAAAA~~) that classifies language as positive, neutral or negative.

The results showed that Sacerdote’s instinct had been right — and not just because the pandemic has been mostly a grim story.

The U.S. media is an outlier

The coverage by U.S. publications with a national audience has been much more negative than coverage by any other source that the researchers analyzed, including scientific journals, major international publications and regional U.S. media. “The most well-read U.S. media are outliers in terms of their negativity,” Molly Cook, a co-author of the study, told me.

About 87 percent of Covid coverage in national U.S. media last year was negative. The share was 51 percent in international media, 53 percent in U.S. regional media and 64 percent in scientific journals.

Notably, the coverage was negative in both U.S. media outlets with liberal audiences (like MSNBC) and those with conservative audiences (like Fox News).

(https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/PENSNn9tE6vfRe16fWQPndNRzOtm1CUa7Wfo4ygJLfcQEoAHRNBok9tE2TnMe4EYVL34ADaWGa3Fz_kn8oK3sblKabx71uMBSaW00OV2a-4z_7rmoPdZvta9CcrPouZkq-bN0UDDiAL3mFtKJMjVLqsg0UPaBY8Mb2Y8vV1z4Bd1d5E=s0-d-e1-ft#https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/03/24/multimedia/24-MORNING-VIRUSNEWS/24-MORNING-VIRUSNEWS-articleLarge.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2021, 10:16:09 AM

The U.S. media is giving the audience what it wants.

When the researchers examined which stories were the most read or the most shared on Facebook, they tended to be the most negative stories. To put it another way, the stories that people choose to read skew even more negative than the stories that media organizations choose to publish. “Human beings, particularly consumers of major media, like negativity in their stories,” Sacerdote said. “We think the major media are responding to consumer demand.”

That idea is consistent with the patterns in the data, Sacerdote added: It makes sense that national publications have better instincts about reaching a large audience than, say, science journals. And overseas, some of the most influential English-language media organizations — like the BBC — have long received government funding (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/a/_mNW_jRQIZwY8t8RKWOJHw~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRiPZu8P0TYaHR0cHM6Ly9rbmlnaHRmb3VuZGF0aW9uLm9yZy9wdWJsaWMtbWVkaWEtd2hpdGUtcGFwZXItMjAxNy1nYXJkbmVyLz9jYW1wYWlnbl9pZD05JmVtYz1lZGl0X25uXzIwMjEwMzI0Jmluc3RhbmNlX2lkPTI4NDEzJm5sPXRoZS1tb3JuaW5nJnJlZ2lfaWQ9MTUzMzY4OTEwJnNlZ21lbnRfaWQ9NTQwNzImdGU9MSZ1c2VyX2lkPThlNWQyYTJiNWU0OGE2OTY1NjE5MmNjM2FmMGE5MDBjVwNueXRCCmBYvBZbYMDCFrBSEWpjZG9vbTlAZ21haWwuY29tWAQAAAAA), potentially making them less focused on consumer demand.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 24, 2021, 10:38:59 AM

anybody ever search recently sold homes just for shits and giggles?

Search these: 

Jupiter
North Palm Beach
Palm Beach
Delray Beach
Boca Raton
Ft. Lauderdale
Aventura
Surfside, FL 
Fisher Island
Miami Beach
Miami 
Coral Gables


Insanity.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 24, 2021, 10:41:47 AM

Outrage Culture is in full effect.  The internet and social media have amplified it, and cultivated it, but it's been around for a while.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2021, 11:14:42 AM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/91697326_1555501161279376_8229762607402188800_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=jt_dLYpxGAMAX_fGZuu&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=db7fa7397eab313763d81fbfdc023409&oe=608119C0)

guy holding the banner on the left's birthday

guy on the far left is my buddy Robert

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 24, 2021, 11:27:03 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 24, 2021, 10:41:47 AM

Outrage Culture is in full effect.  The internet and social media have amplified it, and cultivated it, but it's been around for a while.

Nothing from the past can hold a candle to the pervasive algorithms infiltrating the VAST majority of our devices/accounts online.  It's akin to the best, most shrewd advertiser being Kasparov....the computers are much further ahead.  We have a dumber populace BEING the product and not even realizing it AND/OR caring about it.
Gotta get that newest phone.
Gotta get likes and subscribers on the next, cool platform.
Gotta play the mindless games in case I accidently have 4 minutes of downtime.  Wouldn't want to reflect or wonder or work something out in my head.  I need to be distracted, every moment, forever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 24, 2021, 11:30:41 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 24, 2021, 11:27:03 AM

Nothing from the past can hold a candle to the pervasive algorithms infiltrating the VAST majority of our devices/accounts online.  It's akin to the best, most shrewd advertiser being Kasparov....the computers are much further ahead.  We have a dumber populace BEING the product and not even realizing it AND/OR caring about it.
Gotta get that newest phone.
Gotta get likes and subscribers on the next, cool platform.
Gotta play the mindless games in case I accidently have 4 minutes of downtime.  Wouldn't want to reflect or wonder or work something out in my head.  I need to be distracted, every moment, forever.

This.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 24, 2021, 11:32:20 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 24, 2021, 10:38:59 AM

anybody ever search recently sold homes just for shits and giggles?

Search these:

Jupiter
North Palm Beach
Palm Beach
Delray Beach
Boca Raton
Ft. Lauderdale
Aventura
Surfside, FL
Fisher Island
Miami Beach
Miami
Coral Gables


Insanity.

Dude - I am the Exec in charge of Mortgage for a Florida Bank.  Those are all in markets we compete in.  So yes- every day lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 24, 2021, 11:33:44 AM

Some recipes are just not helpful.

The wife and I are making Thai shrimp lettuce wraps for dinner. I buy my shrimp frozen from Costco and this recipe calls for cooked chilled shrimp, so I need to defrost, cook, and chill the shrimp during the day before she gets home. So I asked her "hey, just simple salt and pepper to season the shrimp ok?", and she said the recipe was printed in our cookbook.

So I looked it up. It calls for 16-20 pre-cooked jumbo shrimp. It doesn't reference what "jumbo" means, nor an overall weight of what those "jumbo" shrimp are supposed to be. Nor, because it only says this, does it have ANY reference to any sort of seasoning or cooking method for the shrimp--obviously I think most pre-cooked shrimp is steamed, but I know very little about the seasoning.

There is no universal definition of jumbo shrimp. Online it says that it can often refer to 16-20 count and it can also often refer to 21-25 count shrimp. Assuming the midpoints (18 and 23), 16 shrimp could be as much as 0.88 lbs or as little as 0.7 lbs. 20 shrimp could be as much as 1.25 lbs or as little as 0.87 lbs.

I buy the 13-15 count shrimp. None of that puny 16-20 or 21-25 stuff!

Screw it. I'm going to use 1# of shrimp, hit it with a little salt and pepper, and cook it in the wok. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 24, 2021, 11:41:31 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 24, 2021, 11:33:44 AM

Some recipes are just not helpful.

The wife and I are making Thai shrimp lettuce wraps for dinner. I buy my shrimp frozen from Costco and this recipe calls for cooked chilled shrimp, so I need to defrost, cook, and chill the shrimp during the day before she gets home. So I asked her "hey, just simple salt and pepper to season the shrimp ok?", and she said the recipe was printed in our cookbook.

So I looked it up. It calls for 16-20 pre-cooked jumbo shrimp. It doesn't reference what "jumbo" means, nor an overall weight of what those "jumbo" shrimp are supposed to be. Nor, because it only says this, does it have ANY reference to any sort of seasoning or cooking method for the shrimp--obviously I think most pre-cooked shrimp is steamed, but I know very little about the seasoning.

There is no universal definition of jumbo shrimp. Online it says that it can often refer to 16-20 count and it can also often refer to 21-25 count shrimp. Assuming the midpoints (18 and 23), 16 shrimp could be as much as 0.88 lbs or as little as 0.7 lbs. 20 shrimp could be as much as 1.25 lbs or as little as 0.87 lbs.

I buy the 13-15 count shrimp. None of that puny 16-20 or 21-25 stuff!

Screw it. I'm going to use 1# of shrimp, hit it with a little salt and pepper, and cook it in the wok.

That's what I'd do.  No need to overthink it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 24, 2021, 11:45:06 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 24, 2021, 11:33:44 AM

Some recipes are just not helpful.

The wife and I are making Thai shrimp lettuce wraps for dinner. I buy my shrimp frozen from Costco and this recipe calls for cooked chilled shrimp, so I need to defrost, cook, and chill the shrimp during the day before she gets home. So I asked her "hey, just simple salt and pepper to season the shrimp ok?", and she said the recipe was printed in our cookbook.

So I looked it up. It calls for 16-20 pre-cooked jumbo shrimp. It doesn't reference what "jumbo" means, nor an overall weight of what those "jumbo" shrimp are supposed to be. Nor, because it only says this, does it have ANY reference to any sort of seasoning or cooking method for the shrimp--obviously I think most pre-cooked shrimp is steamed, but I know very little about the seasoning.

There is no universal definition of jumbo shrimp. Online it says that it can often refer to 16-20 count and it can also often refer to 21-25 count shrimp. Assuming the midpoints (18 and 23), 16 shrimp could be as much as 0.88 lbs or as little as 0.7 lbs. 20 shrimp could be as much as 1.25 lbs or as little as 0.87 lbs.

I buy the 13-15 count shrimp. None of that puny 16-20 or 21-25 stuff!

Screw it. I'm going to use 1# of shrimp, hit it with a little salt and pepper, and cook it in the wok.

the last thing you use is salt

get some "crab boil" at the grocery store thats much better

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 24, 2021, 11:48:43 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 24, 2021, 11:27:03 AM

Nothing from the past can hold a candle to the pervasive algorithms infiltrating the VAST majority of our devices/accounts online.  It's akin to the best, most shrewd advertiser being Kasparov....the computers are much further ahead.  We have a dumber populace BEING the product and not even realizing it AND/OR caring about it.
Gotta get that newest phone.
Gotta get likes and subscribers on the next, cool platform.
Gotta play the mindless games in case I accidently have 4 minutes of downtime.  Wouldn't want to reflect or wonder or work something out in my head.  I need to be distracted, every moment, forever.

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 24, 2021, 11:30:41 AM

This. 

Yup.

Sad but true.

But how to correct the issue?  Is it even possible at this point?

We keep our kids off social media, maybe that's a start.  But there will come a point when we can't make those choices for them, it'll be entirely influenced by their peers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 24, 2021, 11:52:18 AM

I wish I knew an answer. 😞

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2021, 12:13:36 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 24, 2021, 11:45:06 AM

the last thing you use is salt

get some "crab boil" at the grocery store thats much better

old bay seasoning

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 24, 2021, 12:27:21 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 24, 2021, 11:45:06 AM

the last thing you use is salt

get some "crab boil" at the grocery store thats much better

Quote from: FearlessF on March 24, 2021, 12:13:36 PM

old bay seasoning

Normally I'd do something like that, but I'm looking for a very neutral flavor since these are Thai lettuce wraps. But I've always learned that you season every ingredient when cooking, so I need a little bit of something...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 24, 2021, 12:41:45 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 24, 2021, 12:27:21 PM

Normally I'd do something like that, but I'm looking for a very neutral flavor since these are Thai lettuce wraps. But I've always learned that you season every ingredient when cooking, so I need a little bit of something...

You could brine them in salt and sugar while they thaw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 24, 2021, 12:42:18 PM

salt n peppa 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 24, 2021, 12:45:51 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 24, 2021, 12:41:45 PM

You could brine them in salt and sugar while they thaw

Not a bad idea, but they're already mostly thawed. Thanks though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 24, 2021, 01:13:00 PM

I've always been told that you should not brine from frozen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 24, 2021, 01:44:18 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 24, 2021, 01:13:00 PM

I've always been told that you should not brine from frozen.

Is that a statement related to seafood or meat in general? Alton Brown has a video on YouTube about brining a turkey straight from frozen...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 24, 2021, 01:52:21 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 24, 2021, 01:44:18 PM

Is that a statement related to seafood or meat in general? Alton Brown has a video on YouTube about brining a turkey straight from frozen...

Yup I've brined frozen turkeys before.  Worked well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 24, 2021, 01:55:13 PM

The brine will not penetrate frozen meat. Ice crystals and all that. It will only penetrate once the meat thaws, which takes longer in the brine than in water. So, if you have a week to brine your turkey, it's fine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2021, 02:10:07 PM

I thaw the turkey, then Alton Brown brine for 12 hours in a 5 gallon bucket in the garage

Late November temps in my garage are perfect

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 24, 2021, 02:20:21 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 24, 2021, 01:55:13 PM

The brine will not penetrate frozen meat. Ice crystals and all that. It will only penetrate once the meat thaws, which takes longer in the brine than in water. So, if you have a week to brine your turkey, it's fine.

Turkey is a big old thing. Shrimp are small and don't need much time to thaw or brine. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SFBadger96 on March 24, 2021, 02:40:13 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 24, 2021, 11:14:42 AM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/91697326_1555501161279376_8229762607402188800_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=jt_dLYpxGAMAX_fGZuu&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=db7fa7397eab313763d81fbfdc023409&oe=608119C0)

guy holding the banner on the left's birthday

guy on the far left is my buddy Robert

Happy birthday (back then, to him).

Military unit naming convention is curious. There was no 501st in the 101st Airborne that I served in. We had the 327th, 502nd, and 187th infantry regiments. In the 2000s, following the success of the Band of Brothers TV show, the Army brought back the 506th infantry regiment into the 101st. But all of those are just names to honor the past. Really, each is the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and then 4th Brigade Combat Team (BCT), respectively. More recently the 101st has reorganized again, getting back to three BCTs, like when I was there. But because the 506th is so popular because of the TV show, one battalion within the 3rd BCT (generally speaking, the 187th) has retained the 506th designation (2nd battalion 3rd BCT is 2-506, unlike the first and third battalions, which are 1-187 and 3-187).

I mention all of this because when I saw the 501st on that flag it threw me for a loop (because we didn't have a 501st).

It's also evolving--all those changes involving the 506th happened in the last 20 years. And obviously the 501st went away from the 101st sometime between the Vietnam War and when I was in the 101st in the late 90s. Curiously, the 501st, originally under the 101st, is now in the 25th Infantry (the Alaska BCT), and in the 82nd Airborne.

The whole use of a "regiment" designation is simply pointing back to history, because the U.S. Army doesn't organize in regiments anymore (now it's divisions, brigades, battalions, where regiments would have fit between brigades and battalions).

Regiments went away in the late 1950s. Before then they were largely organized by area (Wisconsin regiments, Tennessee regiments, etc.). But there were also special regiments, like the 442nd that I mentioned earlier: the "Nisei" regiment during WWII, or the 54th Massachusetts Infantry (black soldiers) during the Civil War, to name two that are more famous. Of course, all that harkens back to a time when the world was more spread out and segregated (not just in a race-based sense, but in a you're from Wisconsin, he's from Texas, I'm from California sort of a way). That was particularly evident during times of war because traditionally (at least before WWII), the U.S. didn't maintain a large standing army, so the National Guard regiments would get activated to go answer the nation's call.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2021, 02:55:42 PM

The Marines have four divisions but often operate as an MEU or MEF format.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2021, 02:56:14 PM

yup, as the banner says 69-70 for those grunts

they have a 501st name to be remembered by and to be proud of.

They are mostly proud they survived

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 24, 2021, 03:01:35 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 24, 2021, 11:33:44 AM

Some recipes are just not helpful.


There is no universal definition of jumbo shrimp. Online it says that it can often refer to 16-20 count and it can also often refer to 21-25 count shrimp. Assuming the midpoints (18 and 23), 16 shrimp could be as much as 0.88 lbs or as little as 0.7 lbs. 20 shrimp could be as much as 1.25 lbs or as little as 0.87 lbs.

You just have to gauge how oxymoronic they look....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SFBadger96 on March 24, 2021, 03:43:24 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 24, 2021, 02:56:14 PM

yup, as the banner says 69-70 for those grunts

they have a 501st name to be remembered by and to be proud of.

They are mostly proud they survived

As well they should be.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2021, 04:44:20 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/xrbehoN.jpg)

This thing is real, I've seen it live, rather amazing, and interesting.  It also is in a nice city.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 24, 2021, 04:46:20 PM

Yup it's pretty striking and impressive.

And I loved spending time in Barcelona, really want to go back sometime soon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2021, 04:46:31 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/KDYxHeE.png)

This thing is also real, and located up the road from me about 25 miles, it's amazing to see it nestled in amongst a Waffle House and a strip mall.

(https://i.imgur.com/VEkOvI7.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2021, 04:56:46 PM

So, income taxes, I use Turbo Tax each year.  Unfortunately I still have income from Ohio (fortunately).

I try to save a few bucks filing on line through Ohio, but this year the site was a mess.  Out of frustration, I finally decided to pay TurboTax $95 for the Ohio state form, which ended up saving me $1600 as it turned out, as TT had put some of my Ohio income on my GA state tax return.  I thought they did that but couldn't find where it was looking at the return, so it ended well.

I wanted to file everything before we leave Friday for DC.  Check box.

I should celebrate, is it 5 o'clock yet?  The French would say cinq heures, which sounds like "sank ur" or something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 24, 2021, 05:21:08 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 24, 2021, 04:46:20 PM

Yup it's pretty striking and impressive.

And I loved spending time in Barcelona, really want to go back sometime soon.

My 3rd favorite city in Europe (Florence and Amsterdam 1-2).

Will be doing Amsterdam, Munich and Lisbon this year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2021, 05:25:51 PM

I really liked Lyon, FR also.  Brussels was nice, a lot of museums.  Marseille was "interesting", pretty dirty in areas.  we missed Florence last year, should  get there this year, maybe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 24, 2021, 05:37:21 PM

There are some island cities I liked too. The places on Sardinia are really nice. Corsica and Majorca too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2021, 05:41:37 PM

Major Payne, in my view, is an under appreciated pretty bad awful comedy of a movie that makes me laugh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 24, 2021, 05:46:48 PM

Yup Barcelona is way up there for me.

I spent three months in Leuven, which is a major university town outside of Brussels.  It's pretty awesome.  It was easy to day-trip into Brussels but Leuven was much more of a Belgian town compared to an international city.  That's a fave.

Also love Firenze, I'm a medieval freak nerd and it's pretty much the ultimate.

And then there's Prague, what an incredible town that is.  

Our 2020 trip was going to hit Budapest, Croatia, and Greece.  Now we'll likely do that in 2022.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 24, 2021, 06:59:11 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 24, 2021, 04:46:20 PM

Yup it's pretty striking and impressive.

And I loved spending time in Barcelona, really want to go back sometime soon.

Don't come back here Yankee cause if you ever do..........

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 24, 2021, 10:41:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 24, 2021, 04:56:46 PM

So, income taxes, I use Turbo Tax each year.  Unfortunately I still have income from Ohio (fortunately).

I try to save a few bucks filing on line through Ohio, but this year the site was a mess.  Out of frustration, I finally decided to pay TurboTax $95 for the Ohio state form, which ended up saving me $1600 as it turned out, as TT had put some of my Ohio income on my GA state tax return.  I thought they did that but couldn't find where it was looking at the return, so it ended well.

I wanted to file everything before we leave Friday for DC.  Check box.

I should celebrate, is it 5 o'clock yet?  The French would say cinq heures, which sounds like "sank ur" or something.

Let's not remind me of something I need to do. (There's a whole weird convo to have about the tax prep industry, but perhaps for another time)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 24, 2021, 11:44:01 PM

Mmm... Shrimp lettuce wraps...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 25, 2021, 08:34:16 AM

A real-time 3D digital map of Tokyo's public transport system.

https://minitokyo3d.com/ (https://minitokyo3d.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 25, 2021, 08:34:52 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 24, 2021, 06:59:11 PM

Don't come back here Yankee cause if you ever do..........

Don, All she wants to do is dance

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 25, 2021, 08:35:09 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 24, 2021, 11:44:01 PM

Mmm... Shrimp lettuce wraps...

sounds too healthy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 25, 2021, 08:40:13 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 25, 2021, 08:34:16 AM

A real-time 3D digital map of Tokyo's public transport system.

https://minitokyo3d.com/ (https://minitokyo3d.com/)

That is really cool!

Just when I am convinced no good can ever come of the internet, I see something cool like this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 25, 2021, 08:42:27 AM

a bit late to the public transit party, but..........

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2021, 08:43:18 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 24, 2021, 10:41:08 PM

Let's not remind me of something I need to do. (There's a whole weird convo to have about the tax prep industry, but perhaps for another time)

Yeah, likely we all feel the same way.  I shelled out over $130 for tax prep stuff.  The main advantage for me is I can download all the mess from my brokerage site.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 25, 2021, 08:55:53 AM

I'm currently still using Turbo Tax, our investments and rental properties are still manageable enough.

But this month, my i s c & a aggie wife is incorporating and going into business for herself, with her own practice.  Our taxes are about to get significantly more complicated and I'll likely need to hire an accountant.  I could probably figure out how to do it, but it's also not likely worth my time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2021, 09:02:32 AM

I think you could manage OK initially. I did Schedule C by hand back when I had wife One.  Amortization is a bear.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 25, 2021, 09:22:39 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 25, 2021, 08:35:09 AM

sounds too healthy

Well I had a carne asada burrito and an al pastor taco for lunch. So I needed to compensate.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 25, 2021, 09:26:31 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 25, 2021, 08:35:09 AM

sounds too healthy

Looked tasty to me.  

bwar-- how did you end up seasoning, and did the Asian flavors come through okay after final prep?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 25, 2021, 09:50:18 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 25, 2021, 08:55:53 AM

I'm currently still using Turbo Tax, our investments and rental properties are still manageable enough.

But this month, my i s c & a aggie wife is incorporating and going into business for herself, with her own practice.  Our taxes are about to get significantly more complicated and I'll likely need to hire an accountant.  I could probably figure out how to do it, but it's also not likely worth my time.

schedule C here we come unless of course she incorporates

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2021, 09:57:59 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 24, 2021, 04:44:20 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/xrbehoN.jpg)

This thing is real, I've seen it live, rather amazing, and interesting.  It also is in a nice city.

That thing is a beauty. I've been to Barcelona around 5-6 times, my favorite city in Europe that I've been to so far. Can't believe they are still building that thing- it's been under construction since like the 1880s I think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2021, 10:07:00 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 24, 2021, 11:32:20 AM

Dude - I am the Exec in charge of Mortgage for a Florida Bank.  Those are all in markets we compete in.  So yes- every day lol.

Yeah, it's totally insane. Everyone with money is moving to South Florida. The luxury market ($2 mil and up)  used to be driven 70%+ by foreign buyers. Now it's driven 70%+ by domestic buyers. There's a major repricing shift downwards long-term in Real Estate markets in NYC, LA, Boston, San Francisco, and Chicago- and long-term shift upwards in South Florida. Everyone with money from there is moving here.

I've got my gc license and I have my real estate license. People are buying garbage production homes from GL Homes and Toll Brothers in South Florida for $2-3 million. All day long. Complete garbage production homes with cheap cabinetry and finishes that will completely fall apart in under 5 years. 

People buy complete old pieces of shit houses on the water for $1.5 million just for a 1,500 sq ft dump built in the 60's just to tear down and build new homes or completely gut and and do additions. Working on two houses right now on the water where we're doing serious renovations/additions and talking to three potential customers right now that want to tear down little old pieces of crap and build new modern 4,000-5,000 sq ft homes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 25, 2021, 10:47:08 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 25, 2021, 09:26:31 AM

Looked tasty to me. 

bwar-- how did you end up seasoning, and did the Asian flavors come through okay after final prep?

Just did salt and pepper, and pan fried them in a little oil. Definitely didn't overpower the flavor.

The recipe we were working from was pretty basic. Carrot, bell pepper, green onion, cilantro, and some Thai peanut satay sauce I found at the Asian market. If anything, the peanut sauce was the star of the show. It had a nice heat to it--a little more than my wife likes, in fact--and really good flavor. 

Really nice for a weeknight throw-together dish, especially since I can WFH and prepare the shrimp hours ahead during down time. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 25, 2021, 10:51:37 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 25, 2021, 10:07:00 AM

Yeah, it's totally insane. Everyone with money is moving to South Florida. The luxury market ($2 mil and up)  used to be driven 70%+ by foreign buyers. Now it's driven 70%+ by domestic buyers. There's a major repricing shift downwards long-term in Real Estate markets in NYC, LA, Boston, San Francisco, and Chicago- and long-term shift upwards in South Florida. Everyone with money from there is moving here.

I can't really speak to LA or SF proper, but I can say I'm not seeing any downward repricing shift in my neck of the woods in south Orange County. I've been expecting COVID economic effects to bring things down, and yet they're still going up. Anecdotally, I've been hearing the Silicon Valley area (mostly San Jose and the peninsula, not really in tune with SF) is still going up as well. 

Granted, I guess I'm not really looking at the luxury market. I might be missing that. The only time I ever look at the luxury homes is after we go to our wine bar and get wistful about wanting a waterfront home on Lake Mission Viejo--those are still going in the $3-5M range. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2021, 11:13:40 AM

Stuff here is crazy, we had our realtor friend over for dinner Monday and I chatted with him about the market.  There are a lot of condos under construction near us and a new large project was just proposed, he said they were all selling quickly, people were jumping to get construction pricing even before they break ground.

Part of it is interest rates of course.  He said single family is the tightest he's ever seen, 30 years in the biz.  Houses routinely got for 10-20% over asking price with 4-5-6 offers.  He said they would sell their house but then what?

The city of Atlanta continues to gain population, which is a reversal of what was happening 30 years back of course.  The city has fewer people than does Nashville.

Atlanta, Georgia Population 2021 (Demographics, Maps, Graphs) (worldpopulationreview.com) (https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/atlanta-ga-population)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 25, 2021, 11:19:54 AM

Home prices are up over 20% YoY in my hood and all over town.  Houses won't sit on the market more than a day or two and get multiple offer bidding wars well over list price, even as list prices skyrocket.

I'm actually thinking I might sell my rental properties and then reinvest when the market cools.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 25, 2021, 11:33:06 AM

Very tired today, but I just bought a boat for Florida.

(https://i.imgur.com/V75KVs9.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 25, 2021, 11:36:32 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 25, 2021, 11:33:06 AM

Very tired today, but I just bought a boat for Florida.

(https://i.imgur.com/V75KVs9.jpg)

Nice, looks a lot smaller than your usual though.  :)

What is it and what are the specs?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on March 25, 2021, 11:39:37 AM

Wsj piece the other day talked about how there are more RE Agents now than total Home listings in the U.S.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2021, 11:41:07 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/1TDqgMt.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 25, 2021, 11:49:23 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 25, 2021, 10:07:00 AM

Yeah, it's totally insane. Everyone with money is moving to South Florida. The luxury market ($2 mil and up)  used to be driven 70%+ by foreign buyers. Now it's driven 70%+ by domestic buyers. There's a major repricing shift downwards long-term in Real Estate markets in NYC, LA, Boston, San Francisco, and Chicago- and long-term shift upwards in South Florida. Everyone with money from there is moving here.

I've got my gc license and I have my real estate license. People are buying garbage production homes from GL Homes and Toll Brothers in South Florida for $2-3 million. All day long. Complete garbage production homes with cheap cabinetry and finishes that will completely fall apart in under 5 years.

People buy complete old pieces of shit houses on the water for $1.5 million just for a 1,500 sq ft dump built in the 60's just to tear down and build new homes or completely gut and and do additions. Working on two houses right now on the water where we're doing serious renovations/additions and talking to three potential customers right now that want to tear down little old pieces of crap and build new modern 4,000-5,000 sq ft homes.

I hope they're all on stilts....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2021, 11:54:14 AM

Atlanta listed among 'top 10 cities to live in after the pandemic' | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/where-to-live-after-covid19-pandemic-today-show)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 25, 2021, 11:56:40 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 25, 2021, 11:33:06 AM

Very tired today, but I just bought a boat for Florida.

(https://i.imgur.com/V75KVs9.jpg)

How are we all gonna fit on that lil thing?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 25, 2021, 11:58:43 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 25, 2021, 11:36:32 AM

Nice, looks a lot smaller than your usual though.  :)

What is it and what are the specs?

It's a Cobalt 242 with a 5.7 Volvo duoprop drive. Same engine as my last boat, but that one had two.

Don't need a big boat here. That one is in Kenosha.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 25, 2021, 12:26:11 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 25, 2021, 11:58:43 AM

It's a Cobalt 242 with a 5.7 Volvo duoprop drive. Same engine as my last boat, but that one had two.

Don't need a big boat here. That one is in Kenosha.

Cool, I thought it looked like a Cobalt.

Mine's a Cobalt 220 bowrider with the exact same engine and outdrive.  The duoprops make for a really quick holeshot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 25, 2021, 12:29:10 PM

Where's the kitchen? 

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 25, 2021, 11:58:43 AM

It's a Cobalt 242 with a 5.7 Volvo duoprop drive. Same engine as my last boat, but that one had two.

Don't need a big boat here. That one is in Kenosha.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2021, 12:31:44 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 25, 2021, 10:51:37 AM

I can't really speak to LA or SF proper, but I can say I'm not seeing any downward repricing shift in my neck of the woods in south Orange County. I've been expecting COVID economic effects to bring things down, and yet they're still going up. Anecdotally, I've been hearing the Silicon Valley area (mostly San Jose and the peninsula, not really in tune with SF) is still going up as well.

Granted, I guess I'm not really looking at the luxury market. I might be missing that. The only time I ever look at the luxury homes is after we go to our wine bar and get wistful about wanting a waterfront home on Lake Mission Viejo--those are still going in the $3-5M range.

Forbes just did a couple articles on this. Long-term price adjustment downwards in those areas, and is expected to continue downward into the foreseeable future. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 25, 2021, 12:38:30 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on March 25, 2021, 12:29:10 PM

Where's the kitchen?

(https://i.imgur.com/tfCEnJP.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2021, 12:49:27 PM

Nice kitchen indeed.  Ours is much smaller of course but functional.

We only have a 30" fridge.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 25, 2021, 12:53:10 PM

Here in Houston

just got our 2021 property tax valuation 

my house value went up 8% over last year

oh joy

might have to protest it but maybe not

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 25, 2021, 12:54:17 PM

My property tax went down. That has never happened to me before.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 25, 2021, 12:55:38 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 25, 2021, 12:53:10 PM

Here in Houston

just got our 2021 property tax valuation

my house value went up 8% over last year

oh joy

might have to protest it but maybe not

Always protest it.  You'll likely get some concession. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 25, 2021, 01:01:52 PM

Can't trust Texans using 'concession'...sounds too much like secession.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 25, 2021, 01:12:25 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 25, 2021, 01:01:52 PM

Can't trust Texans using 'concession'...sounds too much like secession.

after counting to 10 and taking a deep breath


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQS3JGqx46U

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 25, 2021, 01:12:55 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 25, 2021, 12:49:27 PM

Nice kitchen indeed.  Ours is much smaller of course but functional.

We only have a 30" fridge.

We have done everything in this place, except the roof. It's like a new home.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 25, 2021, 01:20:17 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 25, 2021, 12:38:30 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/tfCEnJP.jpg)

There's no way that kitchen fits inside the boat. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 25, 2021, 01:23:59 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 25, 2021, 12:55:38 PM

Always protest it.  You'll likely get some concession.

Columbus area property values are flying up too. I was thinking about challenging it but based on what I've heard you need to have an appraisal done to get anywhere and I didn't feel like it. Plus the valuation is still 100K below what homes in the area are going for, so I just accepted it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 25, 2021, 01:33:32 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 25, 2021, 01:23:59 PM

Columbus area property values are flying up too. I was thinking about challenging it but based on what I've heard you need to have an appraisal done to get anywhere and I didn't feel like it. Plus the valuation is still 100K below what homes in the area are going for, so I just accepted it.

you can use a protesting service that will charge 50% of your savings they got for you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 25, 2021, 02:30:12 PM

nice boat, Badge

the RED stripe is just enough for Wisconsin fandom

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 25, 2021, 02:53:12 PM

No giant, shirtless fathead of Ron Dayne?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SFBadger96 on March 25, 2021, 03:33:12 PM

The problem with "luxury" real estate in the San Francisco Bay Area is that the average home price here basically qualifies as "luxury" in most places. $3M in my neck of the woods gets you a reasonably nice 2500 sq. ft., 4/2 with a 5000 sq. ft. lot. But probably not in the "more desirable" parts of town.

And that number has continued to climb throughout COVID.

For long-term investors, I can believe that they think the market has to slow down in our area. That seems logical because the growth has been sustained since 2009, and had recovered from 2008 by about 2010.

I feel very lucky that we bought our home in 2008--when we could barely afford what we got, which was a (moderate) fixer-upper, and only because of the moderate drop caused by the financial crisis. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2021, 04:24:58 PM

Quote from: SFBadger96 on March 25, 2021, 03:33:12 PM

The problem with "luxury" real estate in the San Francisco Bay Area is that the average home price here basically qualifies as "luxury" in most places. $3M in my neck of the woods gets you a reasonably nice 2500 sq. ft., 4/2 with a 5000 sq. ft. lot. But probably not in the "more desirable" parts of town.

And that number has continued to climb throughout COVID.

For long-term investors, I can believe that they think the market has to slow down in our area. That seems logical because the growth has been sustained since 2009, and had recovered from 2008 by about 2010.

I feel very lucky that we bought our home in 2008--when we could barely afford what we got, which was a (moderate) fixer-upper, and only because of the moderate drop caused by the financial crisis.

from Forbes: 
South Florida’s real estate resurgence has all the signs of a boom that’s here to stay for a while as the country’s other major metropolises like Manhattan and San Francisco struggle with a long-term re-pricing in the other direction. (https://www.forbes.com/sites/petertaylor/2020/10/28/is-new-york-citys-real-estate-market-really-tanking-i-asked-three-experts-for-the-brutal-truth/?sh=29f95d6e16b8)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2021, 04:42:58 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 25, 2021, 12:38:30 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/tfCEnJP.jpg)

Nice kitchen. And boat. 

I have a 10x10 high end custom German kitchen if you need it for that boat. It was a display, knocking the building down need to get rid of the shit inside it.

Also got a 43" La Cornue range for the kitchen if you're looking. High-end shit, hand assembled in France.

https://ibb.co/5jWpNFL
https://ibb.co/NsPyCg3
https://ibb.co/swgPkw2

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2021, 04:45:08 PM

Home Prices: High demand is met with low inventory and a constrained housing market, driving a sustained upward trend in Atlanta home prices. The result is that the average and median sales prices continue to gain traction and outpace 2020’s figures, with positive gains. The median sales price in January was $309,000, an increase of 17.9% from last January. The average sales price was $379,000, up 17.9% from the previous year.

Housing Supply: The metro Atlanta housing market has been leaning in favor of sellers for several years, and the shortage of homes has been even more acute during this pandemic. Atlanta area housing inventory totaled 8,133 units in January, a decrease of 48.5% from January 2020.

New listings totaled 6,679, down 19.4% from January 2020 and up 27.1% from the previous month. The month’s supply over a 12-month period decreased to 1.2 months, which means sellers still cannot meet buyer demand. Experts consider the market balanced when the number of listings is equal to about six months of sales. 

(https://29y1pu2xvdbzd0g2823sa275-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Atlanta-Housing-Market-Trends-1.jpg) (https://29y1pu2xvdbzd0g2823sa275-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Atlanta-Housing-Market-Trends-1.jpg)

Courtesy of Atlanta REALTORS®

Listing Prices: Realtor.com's January 2021 report shows that the median list price of homes in the city of Atlanta, GA was $345K, trending up 11.3% year-over-year. The median listing price per square foot was $234. The median sale price was $310K. Sale-to-List Price Ratio was 98.97%, which means that homes in Atlanta sold for very close to their asking prices on average in January. Ideally, a buyer would prefer a sale to list price ratio that’s closer to 90% while a seller would always prefer scenarios that can yield a ratio of 100% or higher.

There are 202 neighborhoods in and around Atlanta, GA where Realtor.com has listings. Morningside – Lenox Park has a median listing price of $812K, making it the most expensive neighborhood. Venetian Hills is the most affordable neighborhood, with a median listing price of $248.1K.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2021, 04:45:56 PM

property values are going up everywhere because there's very little inventory. 

I know for example in South Florida there is literally none. It's the lowest number of homes listed for sale on the MLS in at least 13 years. And there is next to no new construction, as there is literally no land. Can't make new land. 

Shit ton of people moving to South Florida + little new construction + lowest number of homes for sale on MLS = crazy high prices. Shit ton of demand, but no supply. And the demand isn't stopping any time soon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2021, 04:47:31 PM

also: price for construction materials were SKYrocketing due to covid- and now with fuel prices going sky high- that's a bad combo. Labor is up too because no one wants to work- everyone getting unemployment sitting on their asses. 

Cost of construction is super high right now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2021, 04:47:41 PM

You can tear down and  build up, and Hawaii even adds new land each  year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2021, 04:49:25 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 25, 2021, 11:49:23 AM

I hope they're all on stilts....

You don't see the ugly stilt homes in South Florida. You see that in the white trash pandhandle parts.

We're all going to be OK anyway- didn't you hear? Joe Biden is here to save us all from the bad orange man. That's if a staircase doesn't take him out before he can save us.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 25, 2021, 04:50:07 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 25, 2021, 04:47:31 PM

also: price for construction materials were SKYrocketing due to covid- and now with fuel prices going sky high- that's a bad combo. Labor is up too because no one wants to work- everyone getting unemployment sitting on their asses.

Cost of construction is super high right now.

that's what is happening here
many projects put on hold or shut down

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 25, 2021, 04:50:56 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 25, 2021, 04:42:58 PM

Nice kitchen. And boat.

I have a 10x10 high end custom German kitchen if you need it for that boat. It was a display, knocking the building down need to get rid of the shit inside it.

Also got a 43" La Cornue range for the kitchen if you're looking. High-end shit, hand assembled in France.

https://ibb.co/5jWpNFL
https://ibb.co/NsPyCg3
https://ibb.co/swgPkw2

Haha.

I can't get a 10x10 kitchen into a 24 foot boat. :)

Also, we do not have gas. All electric so I went with a Samsung induction top.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2021, 04:51:06 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 25, 2021, 04:50:07 PM

that's what is happening here
many projects put on hold or shut down

nothing is put on hold or shut down here- still too much demand and money to be made even with the high material/labor prices.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 25, 2021, 04:52:08 PM

Yeah, there are no stilt homes around here, except for some on Pine Island. They keys have quite a few if I remember right.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2021, 04:54:36 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 25, 2021, 04:50:56 PM

Haha.

I can't get a 10x10 kitchen into a 24 foot boat. :)

Also, we do not have gas. All electric so I went with a Samsung induction top.

Induction is the way to go if you can't get gas. Electric sucks. 

I saw you said something about the roof, if you're looking to do a new metal roof- I can put you in touch with a guy who does the fabricates and installs. He only does metal only and don't know if he services all parts of Florida- but his prices just can't be beat by anyone. Just used him on a 5,200 sq ft. home in Delray Beach on the intercoastal and his price was 17k less than every other roofer I had bid the job. 

He has all the machines and buys the metal and makes the roof himself, he's not going through a middle man like just about every other roofer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 25, 2021, 05:05:20 PM

I don't get the "low inventory" thing... It's been that way locally for YEARS now. 

Prices are high, yet nobody wants to sell anything. You'd think just with natural turnover, inventory would be better than right now, and with high prices, it would spur more. 

Why is inventory so low? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 25, 2021, 05:06:00 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 25, 2021, 04:45:56 PM

property values are going up everywhere because there's very little inventory.

I know for example in South Florida there is literally none. It's the lowest number of homes listed for sale on the MLS in at least 13 years. And there is next to no new construction, as there is literally no land. Can't make new land.

Shit ton of people moving to South Florida + little new construction + lowest number of homes for sale on MLS = crazy high prices. Shit ton of demand, but no supply. And the demand isn't stopping any time soon.

So true.  I am blessed to be in the Home Lending business right now. 

also, I have had numerous offers for my home even though it is not for sale. Very generous offers. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 25, 2021, 05:07:32 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 25, 2021, 05:05:20 PM

I don't get the "low inventory" thing... It's been that way locally for YEARS now.

Prices are high, yet nobody wants to sell anything. You'd think just with natural turnover, inventory would be better than right now, and with high prices, it would spur more.

Why is inventory so low?

Multiple contributing reasons. Covid made people stay in place and made many people take out a home equity loans and refurbish their existing place. But even before that construction of new homes was slowing as demand was actually slowing a little bit. Basically what you have is substantial pent-up demand in all categories: first time buyers, first time move up to your second house, people looking for their final home and retirement etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 25, 2021, 05:10:33 PM

the county assessed my house quite a bit higher than last year

oh well, property tax stays in the local area, I don't mind paying.

Just don't care for Federal taxes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 25, 2021, 05:16:34 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 25, 2021, 05:07:32 PM

Multiple contributing reasons. Covid made people stay in place and made many people take out a home equity loans and refurbish their existing place. But even before that construction of new homes was slowing as demand was actually slowing a little bit. Basically what you have is substantial pent-up demand in all categories: first time buyers, first time move up to your second house, people looking for their final home and retirement etc.

I get that COVID made it less likely people would want to move right now... But I also figured that it would spur some people who *had* to move because they can no longer afford their mortgage. But it seems that didn't happen either.

But here in SoCal, the story has been low inventory for at least half the last decade, if not longer. And it's not that a lot of homes are selling but demand is higher so things don't stay on the market, it's that actual number of sales and homes for sale are lower than typical. At least that's how I understand it... I'm not in real estate so that could be backwards.

I'm legitimately perplexed. It seems like we have a multi-year trend of significantly lower inventory and raising prices, making it a seller's market. Shouldn't that attract more sellers?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2021, 05:18:17 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 25, 2021, 05:16:34 PM

I'm legitimately perplexed. It seems like we have a multi-year trend of significantly lower inventory and raising prices, making it a seller's market. Shouldn't that attract more sellers?

As our realtor friend said to us, he'd sell their house, but then what?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 25, 2021, 05:18:45 PM

I am soliciting a GoFundMe to purchase this place if anyone wants to help out though...

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/27681-Chapala-Mission-Viejo-CA-92692/25629882_zpid/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2021, 05:23:24 PM

490 W Paces Ferry Rd NW, Atlanta, GA 30305 | MLS #6829067 | Zillow (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/490-W-Paces-Ferry-Rd-NW-Atlanta-GA-30305/171553863_zpid/)

Been on the market a while, I hear they are willing to deal.

(https://i.imgur.com/zLc6geA.png)(https://i.imgur.com/BZBrKej.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2021, 05:26:42 PM

Looks a bit like badge's kitchen, 2 bedroom, only $2.6, asked.

(https://i.imgur.com/q9Z5pGh.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 25, 2021, 05:28:39 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 25, 2021, 05:18:17 PM

As our realtor friend said to us, he'd sell their house, but then what?

I get it. I had a coworker who had sold their house around 2006-2007 because he saw what was coming, and went to go rent for a few years. 

Pissed his wife off something fierce, but I think a couple years later she realized that he'd seen what was coming, and it was a hell of a leap of faith, and it worked out because they were able to buy in at a much lower price. 

I could have SWORN that COVID was going to disrupt the economy enough to reset the housing market. Didn't happen. 

If your realtor friend doesn't see things dropping in the near future, I completely agree... "Then what?" But then, realtors who predict the housing market is about to crash aren't exactly common. Usually they're pretty bullish on the market. 

I just wonder how long this can last. It's gotta correct sometime, right? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2021, 05:31:20 PM

Obviously, a steep economic drop would kill demand.  I sold my house in 2012 substantially lower than it had been in 2008.

Buyers were just starting back to be interested.  Ultra low interest rates push up pricing and vice versa.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 25, 2021, 05:46:32 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 25, 2021, 05:28:39 PM

I get it. I had a coworker who had sold their house around 2006-2007 because he saw what was coming, and went to go rent for a few years.

Pissed his wife off something fierce, but I think a couple years later she realized that he'd seen what was coming, and it was a hell of a leap of faith, and it worked out because they were able to buy in at a much lower price.

I could have SWORN that COVID was going to disrupt the economy enough to reset the housing market. Didn't happen.

If your realtor friend doesn't see things dropping in the near future, I completely agree... "Then what?" But then, realtors who predict the housing market is about to crash aren't exactly common. Usually they're pretty bullish on the market.

I just wonder how long this can last. It's gotta correct sometime, right?

Well I think in a lot of ways it affected the market, just not the way many anticipated.  As noted above, new construction materials and labor costs have skyrocketed, to the point where it's been paused or abandoned in many markets.  This means the only inventory can come from existing homes, so the supply is shorter, and if you hold demand steady, then the prices must increase accordingly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 25, 2021, 05:58:42 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 25, 2021, 05:16:34 PM

I get that COVID made it less likely people would want to move right now... But I also figured that it would spur some people who *had* to move because they can no longer afford their mortgage. But it seems that didn't happen either.

But here in SoCal, the story has been low inventory for at least half the last decade, if not longer. And it's not that a lot of homes are selling but demand is higher so things don't stay on the market, it's that actual number of sales and homes for sale are lower than typical. At least that's how I understand it... I'm not in real estate so that could be backwards.

I'm legitimately perplexed. It seems like we have a multi-year trend of significantly lower inventory and raising prices, making it a seller's market. Shouldn't that attract more sellers?

Slowly- it is.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 25, 2021, 06:02:49 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 25, 2021, 05:28:39 PM

I get it. I had a coworker who had sold their house around 2006-2007 because he saw what was coming, and went to go rent for a few years.

Pissed his wife off something fierce, but I think a couple years later she realized that he'd seen what was coming, and it was a hell of a leap of faith, and it worked out because they were able to buy in at a much lower price.

I could have SWORN that COVID was going to disrupt the economy enough to reset the housing market. Didn't happen.

If your realtor friend doesn't see things dropping in the near future, I completely agree... "Then what?" But then, realtors who predict the housing market is about to crash aren't exactly common. Usually they're pretty bullish on the market.

I just wonder how long this can last. It's gotta correct sometime, right?

It actually is starting to but I would not call it a correction. The housing market is often a zero sum game so to speak. People would love to sell to get top dollar but they have nowhere to go because inventory is low and they have to now pay top dollar to get a new house. As rates start to rise which they have a little prices will flatten out and more buyers will enter the market causing more sellers because most of the buyers have a home.  Closer to “normal”. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 25, 2021, 06:08:51 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 25, 2021, 04:49:25 PM

You don't see the ugly stilt homes in South Florida. You see that in the white trash pandhandle parts.

Well....they're still on stilts, they're just covered up, lol.  I like the stilt homes down in the Keys.  Didn't know you were a snob, too.  Damn, got to add it to the list.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2021, 06:26:49 PM

Homes on stilts exist in the hurricane zone on islands and whatnot, not in "normal areas".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 25, 2021, 06:27:27 PM

I'm just looking for when I can get back into home ownership.

I made a perfect call on buying here at the end of 2010. I've never believed that you can truly "time the market", but I felt that my job situation was safe enough that I could ride out another 5-10% drop in prices, which is kinda what I thought was worst case at the time. I figured it'd recover in 1-2 years even if that drop occurred. So I bought. As it turns out, I pretty much nailed the bottom [as described, due to luck more than skill]. 

But then in 2016, I had to sell as part of the divorce. I couldn't afford to buy my ex [who was a spendthrift so we had no savings and plenty of debt] out of the property, so we both had to sell and walk away. 

I constantly regret that I couldn't buy her out. If I had bought her out, I'd have at least $300K in equity right now. Instead I'm renting, and I've watched prices continually rise for the last 5 years since the divorce. 

Now it's damn near impossible to find a single family home around here under $800K. 

I've spent the last 5 years watching the market--after it had appreciated SIGNIFICANTLY the previous 5 years--and it just keeps going up and all I hear is "lack of inventory."

I'm waiting for the party to end so I can actually get beyond the velvet rope.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2021, 06:31:51 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/w49gHgh.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2021, 06:33:29 PM

I think it will take another recession, which I can't hope for, but it will come.  And we could well see inflation heading up soonish, which also would impact home pricing.

Owning is a decent inflation hedge.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2021, 06:45:44 PM

Selig Lays Out 300-Unit, 500,000-Square-Foot Second Phase Plans For 1105 West Peachtree | What Now Atlanta (https://whatnowatlanta.com/selig-lays-out-300-unit-500000-square-foot-second-phase-plans-for-1105-west-peachtree/?fbclid=IwAR35WHmJEJ-5Ldq5vGMbPDA9pkbhvM0g0_sqFdGvrz8p70D0QfwvpuoTwqA)

This fellow has almost rebuilt midtown single handedly.  

There currently is a pretty crappy looking low rise apt building on this site.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2021, 10:21:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 25, 2021, 06:26:49 PM

Homes on stilts exist in the hurricane zone on islands and whatnot, not in "normal areas".

homes on piles in SoFL really only near water where soil conditions suck. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on March 25, 2021, 10:31:03 PM

I could not have finished our build at a better time, Aug 19.  I haven't had to order, rehab, fix or renovate a thing during this time where everybody is waiting around for all kinds of raw materials and labor.  It's bonkers how many people did major redesign projects and are still waiting around for stuff.   Lumber prices are crazy.  Framing cost is massively higher on a new build right now relative to early '20.

First world problems but it has disrupted a lot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2021, 10:33:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 25, 2021, 06:33:29 PM

I think it will take another recession, which I can't hope for, but it will come.  And we could well see inflation heading up soonish, which also would impact home pricing.

Owning is a decent inflation hedge.

every real estate market is different and unto itself. There will be slowdown and corrections in markets that are artificially hot at the moment due to low interest rates and foreclosure relief programs keeping homes that could be sold on the cheap off the markets (think dying places that are losing people YoY like PA/Michigan/Ohio/Illinois) which lowers total inventory and keeps prices higher.

I don't see the South Florida market slowing down anytime soon. You have insane demand (1,000+ people a day moving) and near zero supply. Banks aren't just handing out mortgages like skittles like they were pre-crash of 2008-2009. And every single developer that sells pre-construction homes and condos down here now makes buyers put up a huge chunk to buy. Leading up to the crash of 2008-2009 you could buy a condo or house with 10 or 20% down- when shit hit the fan buyers all walked. These guys learned a thing or two. Now developers make their buyers put up 60-80% ground is ever broken. And it's mainly people with money that are coming here- and people with money almost always have money- no matter what the economy looks like for the common folk. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 26, 2021, 05:58:08 AM

Quote

I've spent the last 5 years watching the market--after it had appreciated SIGNIFICANTLY the previous 5 years--and it just keeps going up and all I hear is "lack of inventory."

Man I know.  We bought a few years ago and I felt stupid. Like, I must be the biggest buster for buying now while the market is totally hot and home prices are inflated.  But I bit the bullet and we bought our home.  Since then, prices have risen even faster and inventory has dropped even lower. So who knows.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2021, 07:16:55 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 25, 2021, 10:21:35 PM

homes on piles in SoFL really only near water where soil conditions suck.

Yeah, the wife originally aspired to be "near a beach".  We looked in north Florida, and there is a hurricane zone where houses on the beach are on stilts.  Somewhat further inland is still the zone, but houses are "normal", and I learned it's good to be out of said zone for insurance purposes.  A couple miles inland is all it takes.

A house right on the beach will be elevated, a nice house will simply have a garage downstairs and the house built up a level, like on Hilton Head.  There are some million dollar homes there "on the beach", but they are 100 yards or more away from high tide.  They aren't on stilts at all of course.

We have 125 units in our building, nothing for sale right now, which is pretty typical.  Our realtor friend tells us if you want one here, you need to know before it comes on the market and have a check in hand.

I am somewhat concerned about over building, but the developers are not apparently.  They tend to over build here before a crash.

The popular thing is a 2 bdr 2.5 bath condo with about 1200 sf.  Those start at half a mil in anything of recent construction.  They could be a good investment.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 26, 2021, 09:37:13 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 25, 2021, 05:16:34 PM

I get that COVID made it less likely people would want to move right now... But I also figured that it would spur some people who *had* to move because they can no longer afford their mortgage. But it seems that didn't happen either.

But here in SoCal, the story has been low inventory for at least half the last decade, if not longer. And it's not that a lot of homes are selling but demand is higher so things don't stay on the market, it's that actual number of sales and homes for sale are lower than typical. At least that's how I understand it... I'm not in real estate so that could be backwards.

I'm legitimately perplexed. It seems like we have a multi-year trend of significantly lower inventory and raising prices, making it a seller's market. Shouldn't that attract more sellers?

Here is a good overview.

https://www.realtor.com/news/trends/housing-market-was-rocked-by-covid-19-where-we-go-from-here/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 26, 2021, 09:40:52 AM

This gives you an idea of just how much has changed.  

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/22/existing-home-sales-fell-sharply-in-february-as-supply-declined-at-record-pace.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2021, 09:41:10 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 25, 2021, 04:54:36 PM

Induction is the way to go if you can't get gas. Electric sucks.

I saw you said something about the roof, if you're looking to do a new metal roof- I can put you in touch with a guy who does the fabricates and installs. He only does metal only and don't know if he services all parts of Florida- but his prices just can't be beat by anyone. Just used him on a 5,200 sq ft. home in Delray Beach on the intercoastal and his price was 17k less than every other roofer I had bid the job.

He has all the machines and buys the metal and makes the roof himself, he's not going through a middle man like just about every other roofer.

Thank you. The HOA does not allow metal roofs currently, but they are looking into it. Doesn't that get a little noisy when it rains?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 26, 2021, 09:42:06 AM

yes, but you get used to it

just put on more insulation between the metal and yourself

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 26, 2021, 09:46:22 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2021, 09:41:10 AM

Thank you. The HOA does not allow metal roofs currently, but they are looking into it. Doesn't that get a little noisy when it rains?

Not here.  CB construction cancels it out amazingly well. 

During the last couple of hurricanes we could actually look out the window and see the hundred mile per hour winds and things flying by but it was like watching a silent movie. You could almost not hear it at all. Of course we have hurricane impact windows throughout so that helps.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 26, 2021, 09:52:48 AM

The Airstream's aluminum roof sounded awesome from inside whilst enjoying a rainstorm.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 26, 2021, 10:02:23 AM

I believe I chose well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 26, 2021, 10:06:16 AM

Kamikaze pilots were both, in a way....if you're morbid like that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2021, 10:13:38 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 26, 2021, 09:46:22 AM

Not here.  CB construction cancels it out amazingly well. 

During the last couple of hurricanes we could actually look out the window and see the hundred mile per hour winds and things flying by but it was like watching a silent movie. You could almost not hear it at all. Of course we have hurricane impact windows throughout so that helps.

I will look into it.

We put in all new windows too, 235MPH and also UV rated. We don't hear much of anything. We also had 3' of insulation blown into the attic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 26, 2021, 10:13:57 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 26, 2021, 10:02:23 AM

I believe I chose well.

Word.  And same here.  I just don't get into war history.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 26, 2021, 11:09:19 AM

Heh heh. "Smoking meat" 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 26, 2021, 11:39:44 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2021, 09:41:10 AM

Thank you. The HOA does not allow metal roofs currently, but they are looking into it. Doesn't that get a little noisy when it rains?

Not too much. Metal is absolutely 1000% the best roof for Florida. During hurricane that bitch ain’t going nowhere. Also looks the best next to the modern homes with flat roof. 

Shingle roof on stucco looks terrible. Tile looks great but those mofos turn into projectile weapons of destruction during hurricanes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2021, 11:42:58 AM

Yeah, we have the concrete tile and it's a concern of mine.

What are your thoughts on the synthetic tiles?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 26, 2021, 12:05:49 PM

Our home inspector recommended a metal roof - more durable and can make it pretty. Though frozen ice falling off in a sheet can be a hazard. Less chance of that in Florida.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 26, 2021, 12:14:02 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2021, 11:42:58 AM

Yeah, we have the concrete tile and it's a concern of mine.

What are your thoughts on the synthetic tiles?

They look great, better and more durable than concrete tile. They can still come up and turn into projectiles.

Only thing not going anywhere is metal or flat. Flat looks great on a well designed modern home, but prone to leaks. Metal is the best all around. Only way to go imo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on March 26, 2021, 12:16:44 PM

Quote from: SFBadger96 on March 25, 2021, 03:33:12 PM

The problem with "luxury" real estate in the San Francisco Bay Area is that the average home price here basically qualifies as "luxury" in most places. $3M in my neck of the woods gets you a reasonably nice 2500 sq. ft., 4/2 with a 5000 sq. ft. lot. But probably not in the "more desirable" parts of town.

And that number has continued to climb throughout COVID.

For long-term investors, I can believe that they think the market has to slow down in our area. That seems logical because the growth has been sustained since 2009, and had recovered from 2008 by about 2010.

I feel very lucky that we bought our home in 2008--when we could barely afford what we got, which was a (moderate) fixer-upper, and only because of the moderate drop caused by the financial crisis.

The Bad (good) thing is people are selling their homes in Cali taking the appreciation and then coming to Arizona and offering cash well above asking price driving prices up and inventory down. 

I am selling my home for quite a bit more than I purchased it just a few years ago and downsizing my home and building a new home in a retirement community, but paying about what I originally bought my much larger house for.  Works well in that my house payment will go down quite a bit due to the equity I now have in my current home.

Bad for someone like my daughter who is trying to buy her first home and makes offers above asking price when she finds one she likes, but get rejected because someone is offering cash above the asking price with no contingencies and no appraisal.   People are putting their house for sale on a Friday, Open house on Saturday.  Collecting offers over the weekend and accepting the one of multiple offers they like best on Monday or Tuesday. 

It really is crazy. For my sake I hope it last for about a year, Which is about how long it is going to take to build my new home.  Nice to be able to purchase without having to sell, so no moving twice. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on March 26, 2021, 12:18:44 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 25, 2021, 05:05:20 PM

I don't get the "low inventory" thing... It's been that way locally for YEARS now.

Prices are high, yet nobody wants to sell anything. You'd think just with natural turnover, inventory would be better than right now, and with high prices, it would spur more.

Why is inventory so low?

A lot of people can't afford to buy a new place if they sell their house. 

If you sell before you have a place, you could get squeezed out.  Most buyer won't accept an offer that is contingent on the sell of the buyer's current home.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 26, 2021, 01:12:25 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on March 26, 2021, 12:18:44 PM

A lot of people can't afford to buy a new place if they sell their house.

If you sell before you have a place, you could get squeezed out.  Most buyer won't accept an offer that is contingent on the sell of the buyer's current home.

Yup. 

I know a guy who bought his house in Boca for $1.25 million probably 10 years ago and right now he’d get $1.8 million all day long. He was thinking of selling, but problem is if he sells where is he going to go? There’s no inventory and prices on something new construction at his size home- $2+ million all day long and it’s way out west near the turnpike and it’s a production piece of trash. 

Custom home more east- $3+ million and that’s simply bc there’s no land and you’ve got to buy an old piece of shit for 1+ million and tear it down. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 26, 2021, 01:47:24 PM

Bought my house in 1990 new build to suit

It has more then doubled in price

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2021, 02:01:31 PM

We bought our last place in Illinois in 2007. We lost our ass on that one. Put a boatload on money into it too.

(https://i.imgur.com/sA61rEq.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/sav6ZHZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/bu3iiR7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/RfoUzdw.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/YuYD4aM.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 26, 2021, 02:10:53 PM

Just a regular, plain ole commode?

Should be more like... 

(https://royaltoiletry.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/black-and-gold-oval-shaped-toilet-2.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2021, 02:29:18 PM

I like the clean lines of a one piece unit. Kohler!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 26, 2021, 02:32:28 PM

There is no land shortage in FL.  Just go inland.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2021, 02:34:52 PM

No thank you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 26, 2021, 02:35:36 PM

What?  Something wrong with rural southerners 'n skeeters?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2021, 02:36:55 PM

Too much floodplain and wetlands. I'd rather they be left alone, unlike that clusterfuck of public "works" around Lake O.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 26, 2021, 03:39:18 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on March 26, 2021, 02:10:53 PM

Just a regular, plain ole commode?

Should be more like...

(https://royaltoiletry.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/black-and-gold-oval-shaped-toilet-2.jpg)

Looks like my wife's friends house, in the one bathroom her husband was allowed to pick the finishes. 

He has a... unique... sense of style. :smiley_confused1:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2021, 03:45:54 PM

I am in Durham, NC.  That was an unpleasant drive, traffic and construction galore.  Nice hotel near Duke at least.

Some of the worst pavement I've ever seen on an interstate.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 26, 2021, 03:46:56 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2021, 02:36:55 PM

Too much floodplain and wetlands. I'd rather they be left alone, unlike that clusterfuck of public "works" around Lake O.

Elite HS football talent comes outta there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on March 26, 2021, 05:54:57 PM

Love Kohler fixtures but am a Toto guy with toilets.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 26, 2021, 08:24:38 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 26, 2021, 01:47:24 PM

Bought my house in 1990 new build to suit

It has more then doubled in price

bought mine in 89 for $44,000

easily worth triple that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 26, 2021, 08:26:21 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 26, 2021, 08:24:38 PM

bought mine in 89 or $44,000

easily worth triple that

feels good dont it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 26, 2021, 08:30:17 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 26, 2021, 10:02:23 AM

I believe I chose well.

That's funny because I've read volumes on that conflict.It is interesting,when I drop cable and go to the rabbitt ears I'll be reading even more

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 26, 2021, 08:38:51 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 26, 2021, 08:26:21 PM

feels good dont it

mortgage bankers didn't make much interest on me

hate bankers and insurance men and casinos

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 26, 2021, 08:45:22 PM

Ya but with casino's your not laboring under the illusion of safe money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 26, 2021, 08:51:18 PM

I don't have any illusions regarding bankers and insurance men

bastards

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 26, 2021, 08:52:11 PM

grandfather set me straight when I was but a wee lad

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 26, 2021, 09:02:13 PM

On Women and Whiskey?Or just Golf

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 26, 2021, 09:29:23 PM

gramps knew quite a bit about women, a bit too much about whiskey

never touched a golf club

he got mixed up with some bootleggers in the Al Capone network and spent a few nights in the clink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 26, 2021, 11:57:39 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 26, 2021, 08:30:17 PM

That's funny because I've read volumes on that conflict.It is interesting,when I drop cable and go to the rabbitt ears I'll be reading even more

Yeah, volumes and volumes. Bet it didn't taste good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 27, 2021, 06:48:46 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 26, 2021, 08:38:51 PM

mortgage bankers didn't make much interest on me

hate bankers and insurance men and casinos

Hey.  Watch it. That’s hitting home. I am a “banker”.   That’s bankerism.    And isms are bad. Lol

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 27, 2021, 09:53:15 AM

no worries HonestBuck

I love ya as long as ya don't have your hand in my pocket

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 27, 2021, 10:00:17 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 27, 2021, 09:53:15 AM

no worries HonestBuck

I love ya as long as ya don't have your hand in my pocket

I solved that problem

paid of my house 3 years ago

now all I have to worry about is property taxes and insurance

but no gazillion dollar monthly pmt so I'll take it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 27, 2021, 12:54:36 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 26, 2021, 02:32:28 PM

There is no land shortage in FL.  Just go inland. 

That land is worthless and no one wants to live there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 27, 2021, 01:00:02 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 27, 2021, 12:54:36 PM

That land is worthless and no one wants to live there.

if you wait long enough it will eventually be water front property

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 27, 2021, 01:26:18 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 27, 2021, 01:00:02 PM

if you wait long enough it will eventually be water front property

Take this to the Climate Change thread.




(just kidding)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 27, 2021, 01:47:05 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 27, 2021, 01:00:02 PM

if you wait long enough it will eventually be water front property

we will all be dead by then. whose got time to wait for that shit? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 27, 2021, 01:49:38 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 27, 2021, 06:48:46 AM

Hey.  Watch it. That’s hitting home. I am a “banker”.  That’s bankerism.    And isms are bad. Lol

Hey, I love bankers. Got any clients looking for high-end residential new home construction or major renovations in south florida? Send them my way :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 27, 2021, 01:51:48 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on March 26, 2021, 02:10:53 PM

Just a regular, plain ole commode?

Should be more like...

(https://royaltoiletry.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/black-and-gold-oval-shaped-toilet-2.jpg)

that looks like some over the top super expensive shit like Sherle Wagner. Hideously ugly and ridiculously expensive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 27, 2021, 01:54:36 PM

Well I was trying to find a commode that was made out of solid gold, but came across that one instead. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 27, 2021, 02:01:14 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on March 27, 2021, 01:54:36 PM

Well I was trying to find a commode that was made out of solid gold, but came across that one instead.

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2019/may/03/flushed-with-success-solid-gold-toilet-to-be-installed-at-blenheim

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 27, 2021, 02:49:06 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 27, 2021, 01:00:02 PM

if you wait long enough it will eventually be water front property

😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 27, 2021, 04:27:25 PM

Got a little FCS FB on CBS... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 27, 2021, 10:52:34 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 26, 2021, 11:57:39 PM

Yeah, volumes and volumes. Bet it didn't taste good.

No but I've learned some flanking manuevers and charging techniques that will come in handy when I purloin your sirloins.Have some concusion grenades that will stun the grill master whilst I make off with the goods

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 28, 2021, 01:32:20 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 27, 2021, 12:54:36 PM

That land is worthless and no one wants to live there.

You sound like one of those people who want private, walled-off lots to wrap around the state from Fernadina Beach to Panama City Beach.  No public access, no public views, just million-dollar homes as far as A1A can see.  Gross.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 28, 2021, 07:35:25 AM

$10 Million homes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 28, 2021, 07:39:23 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 27, 2021, 12:54:36 PM

That land is worthless and no one wants to live there.

So Florida is either overpriced or worthless? Good to know. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 28, 2021, 08:04:19 AM

A place like Disney could never be built today. Not a chance in hell that project gets permitted.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2021, 10:12:26 AM

Am in DC, rainy, awful traffic from Richmond, three hour drive for 90 miles.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2021, 10:28:18 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 28, 2021, 07:39:23 AM

So Florida is either overpriced or worthless? Good to know.

See why I'm not moving to Florida?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2021, 10:28:30 AM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/165233130_3589799314480132_2643645476034000768_o.png?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=ie0j60gs2H4AX_Rt0kt&_nc_oc=AQm_4WnjfVyOt5P2hFidFxeF0uZpwOb5ibz0TFPlFE273zXDC-M_B-liwRzVMSkUiUk&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&_nc_tp=30&oh=2ed376ffde7db0c2f980bbd12aecc0cc&oe=60863DD9)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 28, 2021, 10:37:41 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 28, 2021, 10:28:18 AM

See why I'm not moving to Florida?

No way, don't believe him.  Florida is great and definitely the place to move!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 28, 2021, 10:45:51 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 28, 2021, 08:04:19 AM

A place like Disney could never be built today. Not a chance in hell that project gets permitted.

For what reason? Environmental? Need of using something else for the land? (not trying to be adversarial, in case it comes off that way, just curious)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 28, 2021, 10:48:41 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 28, 2021, 10:37:41 AM

No way, don't believe him.  Florida is great and definitely the place to move!

A friend used to live in Temple and just raved about Austin. There was even a stretch where I was considering applying to UT. The tech people who are overcrowding my homeland have already invaded, so I guess at least I won’t feel out of place!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 28, 2021, 10:57:53 AM

Your friend is lying, Austin is horrible.

My mom was born and raised in Temple, I spent a lot of time there visiting my GPs over the years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2021, 11:03:49 AM

there ya go, move to Temple!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 28, 2021, 11:34:46 AM

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/jlsTq70dIvoIJZNSCjYPaoe0uArhIe-WOvwOvieemKoBYujc8aD_TPeWjZpngiAHmg0vRkkitzCiGUFjNN9PuLxo2iBoHug)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2021, 12:40:34 PM

My son says property taxes are very high in Austin, over double mine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 28, 2021, 01:11:17 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 28, 2021, 10:57:53 AM

Your friend is lying, Austin is horrible.

My mom was born and raised in Temple, I spent a lot of time there visiting my GPs over the years.

The downside of living in nice places, other people. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 28, 2021, 01:58:23 PM

Finally sucked it up and got the taxes done... Good news is there's a decent amount coming back. 

Gonna need a beer after all that "fun", but it's only 11 AM lol...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 28, 2021, 02:11:59 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 28, 2021, 10:45:51 AM

For what reason? Environmental? Need of using something else for the land? (not trying to be adversarial, in case it comes off that way, just curious)

Yes. So much wetland and floodplain were displaced with that monster it's unreal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 28, 2021, 02:12:22 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 28, 2021, 01:58:23 PM

Finally sucked it up and got the taxes done... Good news is there's a decent amount coming back.

Gonna need a beer after all that "fun", but it's only 11 AM lol...

good luck the IRS has had my return since Feb 24 and my refund is still pending

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 28, 2021, 02:14:01 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 28, 2021, 02:11:59 PM

Yes. So much wetland and floodplain were displaced with that monster it's unreal.

Having been several times it looked like they incorporated the existing environment as much as possible

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 28, 2021, 02:15:23 PM

They did, but also took away probably half. Since 1987, that would not happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 28, 2021, 02:25:47 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 28, 2021, 02:15:23 PM

They did, but also took away probably half. Since 1987, that would not happen.

I always assumed that was just Florida nature trying to take it back.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on March 28, 2021, 05:19:15 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 28, 2021, 02:15:23 PM

They did, but also took away probably half. Since 1987, that would not happen.

Disney put many pieces of their land under the watch of the Florida Department of Environmental Regulation and the South Florida Water Management District as conservation easements. Many portions remain as a wetland.

Disney World is an impressive piece of work.  The entire area is its own self governed municipality.  Walt Disney himself petitioned the Florida Legislature to give his land almost total autonomy.  He got it too.  The area is officially known as the Reedy Creek Improvement District.  It's functions completely on its own.  Any service it doesn't provide itself, it contracts out (such as police).

The only areas where the district had to submit to the county and state would be property taxes and elevator inspections.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 28, 2021, 06:39:01 PM

When it's inevitably under a foot of water, they can just lay down some track and the whole park will be like "Pirates of the Caribbean."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2021, 07:12:53 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 28, 2021, 06:39:01 PM

When it's inevitably under a foot of water, they can just lay down some track and the whole park will be like "Pirates of the Caribbean."

Inevitably?  When?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 28, 2021, 08:29:26 PM

Soon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2021, 08:50:31 PM

We go out to dinner, I find a decent looking place, we get seated, ready to order, and wait.  After fifteen minutes, we just leave, no service.

Orlando won't be underwater soon, to claim otherwise is ignorant.

DC might be.  This place is near sea level, has tidal pools.

Not really.

Daughter joins us tomorrow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2021, 04:13:54 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 28, 2021, 08:29:26 PM

Soon.

How soon will sea level get to about 100-120 feet?

Jeez.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 29, 2021, 09:34:34 AM

There are a lot of things that were built in the past that they would never get away with today. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 29, 2021, 02:12:03 PM

Volkswagen accidentally posted a press release on its website a month early on Monday announcing a new name for its U.S. operations, Voltswagen of America, emphasizing the German automaker’s electric vehicle efforts.

A spokesman for the company declined to comment on the release, which was dated April 29 and has since been taken down.

A person familiar with the company’s plans confirmed the authenticity of the release to CNBC. They asked to remain anonymous because the plans were not meant to be public yet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 29, 2021, 07:51:18 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on March 29, 2021, 09:34:34 AM

There are a lot of things that were built in the past that they would never get away with today.

Like the city of New Orleans?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 29, 2021, 07:55:36 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 29, 2021, 07:51:18 PM

Like the city of New Orleans?

Or the Netherlands?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 29, 2021, 08:10:15 PM

I'm glad they built New Orleans, it's awesome.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 29, 2021, 08:27:52 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 29, 2021, 08:10:15 PM

I'm glad they built New Orleans, it's awesome.

the French Quarter rocks

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 29, 2021, 09:29:29 PM

Building what became a large city below sea level on a massive river near the ocean is dumb.  Re-building it in the same place is a special kind of stupid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 29, 2021, 11:35:25 PM

Nah, New Orleans is awesome.  An incredible melting pot of culture, music, food. 

Laissez les bons temps rouler!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2021, 01:57:24 AM

Me:  where it is built is stupid
Everyone:  New Orleans is awesome!
.
fml

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 30, 2021, 07:36:17 AM

Oh pleeze stop prattling on like the voice in the wilderness.Many have been on that long ago,try running that past 847 - you're late to the party

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 30, 2021, 08:02:51 AM

It's not "everyone" it's just me. Well, and lh320 who expressed enthusiasm for the French Quarter.

847 certainly agrees with you, and has gone on at length about it in the past.

But you're both wrong because New Orleans is awesome.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 30, 2021, 09:03:11 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 29, 2021, 09:29:29 PM

Building what became a large city below sea level on a massive river near the ocean is dumb.  Re-building it in the same place is a special kind of stupid.

I may have posted this before, but I walked away from a Million $ contract for design and construction services. I just did not believe that the city should be re-built.

The FQ is above sea level. That could have stayed as a vacation area.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 30, 2021, 09:05:18 AM

Also, the Mississippi is being held in its current position, and has been for some time. It needs to be allowed to take its natural path - of which there have been 3-500 over time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 30, 2021, 09:10:21 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 30, 2021, 09:03:11 AM

I may have posted this before, but I walked away from a Million $ contract for design and construction services. I just did not believe that the city should be re-built.

The FQ is above sea level. That could have stayed as a vacation area.

Counterpoint-- The French Quarter is not the only awesome part of New Orleans, and so the rest must remain as well.

:)

And I'm not ACTUALLY disagreeing with the general premise that building (and then rebuilding) a city below sea level is stupid-- it is.  I'm simply saying that New Orleans is awesome and therefore worth it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 30, 2021, 09:13:35 AM

MS River in Danger of Being Captured by the Atchafalaya River – Bigger Pie Forum (https://biggerpieforum.org/environment/ms-river-in-danger-of-being-captured-by-the-atchafalaya-river/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2021, 09:37:16 AM

Of course NOLA is awesome, but the 2 points are unrelated.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 30, 2021, 09:45:56 AM

What's the purpose in pointing it out, then?

New Orleans is awesome.   Being a sinking crap-hole and the way that affects the culture and attitudes of the populace, is an important part of its charm.

I wouldn't change New Orleans for any reason.

I also wouldn't build a new city, in the year 2021, at or below sea level.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 30, 2021, 10:16:14 AM

One thing should be made clear NO was not originally below sea level

This happened over time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 30, 2021, 11:09:54 AM

Never change Baylor


https://sports.yahoo.com/kim-mulkey-covid-testing-ncaa-tournament-022102224.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on March 30, 2021, 02:23:32 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2021, 01:57:24 AM

Me:  where it is built is stupid
Everyone:  New Orleans is awesome!
.
fml

Not me, Been there once, never again

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2021, 02:35:51 PM

I wasn't impressed with New Orleans either, but............

it could have been my traveling partner on that trip or...

it may have been that my expectations were too high or...

I'm just too old for that type of debauchery or.....

the combination of the 3 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 30, 2021, 03:03:03 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 28, 2021, 07:39:23 AM

So Florida is either overpriced or worthless? Good to know.

No. South Florida is the only place to live there. Some of the nicest places in the entire country. 

The panhandle is a boring white trash toothless redneck shit hole that might as well be Alabama, Tampa is an armpit and most of the west coast of Florida sucks. Orlando is nothing but giant shopping malls, giant theme parks, and awful food with nothing but chain restaurants in the middle of the state with no beaches, Jacksonville is a literal dump, and the rest of the state is just empty farmland with cow f**king inbred hillbilly white trash. Kind of like most states in this country. Only small pockets of where it’s nice to live, the rest kind of sucks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 30, 2021, 03:04:45 PM

I really love how open-minded and non-judgmental folks on this message board are.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 30, 2021, 03:08:28 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on March 30, 2021, 02:23:32 PM

Not me, Been there once, never again

Where did you go, out of curiosity?

I found the French quarter to be fine. Kind of grungy and sticky. But the Bywater and the Garden District and some of the neighborhoods are actually quite nice. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2021, 03:14:35 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 30, 2021, 03:04:45 PM

I really love how open-minded and non-judgmental folks on this message board are. 

this is why I hang out here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 30, 2021, 03:57:21 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 30, 2021, 03:03:03 PM

No. South Florida is the only place to live there. Some of the nicest places in the entire country.

The panhandle is a boring white trash toothless redneck shit hole that might as well be Alabama, Tampa is an armpit and most of the west coast of Florida sucks. Orlando is nothing but giant shopping malls, giant theme parks, and awful food with nothing but chain restaurants in the middle of the state with no beaches, Jacksonville is a literal dump, and the rest of the state is just empty farmland with cow f**king inbred hillbilly white trash. Kind of like most states in this country. Only small pockets of where it’s nice to live, the rest kind of sucks.

SW Florida is very nice. From Syracuse to Marco there are no armpits, with a few exceptions, just like there are on the SE. Clearwater is very nice.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 30, 2021, 04:00:49 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 30, 2021, 03:04:45 PM

I really love how open-minded and non-judgmental folks on this message board are. 

makes me look good dont it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2021, 04:12:12 PM

I wouldn't go THAT far

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 30, 2021, 04:16:11 PM

Today I noticed a humming noise coming from my TV

at first I thought the noise was from my air conditioners but after investigating found that not to be the case

so back to the TV

I tried lowering the contrast and changing volume settings

and the noise would come and go but always came back

I tried restarting the TV and unplugging various stuff I have connected to the TV

no change

it was driving me crazy

after missing with this for a while I walked to the kitchen and noticed the noise was coming from 

a stack of boxes I had

I opened one box and found an old battery powered radio and although it was turned off was making the humming noise

I took the batteries out of it and the noise stopped

That damn radio was not only the source of the noise but was transmitting it to my TV speakers

I need a beer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2021, 04:34:32 PM

320, you do realize that auditory hallucinations is one of the first signs of COVID, right? :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 30, 2021, 04:38:43 PM

I was thinking it's probably coming from the 5G chips injected into the bloodstream

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 30, 2021, 04:45:10 PM

hey guys it is one of those radios that not only has AM/FM but also can pick up airplanes, police etc

It obviously interfered with the TV but what ever

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 30, 2021, 04:47:15 PM

I almost called a repairman boy that would have been embarrassing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2021, 04:47:43 PM

Ok 320, but you do realize that 94 and I are both electrical engineers, and what you're proposing is--to all known theories of radiated emissions--impossible. 

I think it's in your head, buddy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 30, 2021, 04:50:18 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2021, 04:47:43 PM

Ok 320, but you do realize that 94 and I are both electrical engineers, and what you're proposing is--to all known theories of radiated emissions--impossible.

I think it's in your head, buddy.

Definitely.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2021, 04:51:18 PM

gotta be the water in Houston

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 30, 2021, 04:54:15 PM

so I guess I might get the Nobel prize over this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 30, 2021, 05:07:32 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 30, 2021, 04:54:15 PM

so I guess I might get the Nobel prize over this

...or electrocuted remotely by Bill Gates...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 30, 2021, 05:10:13 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 30, 2021, 04:54:15 PM

so I guess I might get the Nobel prize over this

I'll give you an Emmy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 30, 2021, 05:18:12 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 30, 2021, 03:04:45 PM

I really love how open-minded and non-judgmental folks on this message board are. 

Sometimes folks are a bit put off by wide swaths of this land where they live. 

(I’ve been to at least three notable cities in Florida and like them. My Orlando experience was not particularly great, but I have a buddy who’s from there and likes a lot of it. Most places are fine for a lot of folks)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2021, 05:27:22 PM

I'll admit that my impression of Orlando would best be described as "soulless". I was there a couple times for work in the mid-oughts and kinda agree with Mdot. It was pretty much just chain restaurants as far as the eye could see. Bland little tourist trap. 

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's got a bunch of charm and you just need to know where to look. But... I had no clue where to look, and yet I find all that charm in tons of other cities I visit without having to dig deep. 

IMHO Orlando is only a "thing" because of Disney, and as a result, that's its only "thing". 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 30, 2021, 05:36:49 PM

There are plenty of places where I don't want to live, but that doesn't mean I must designate them as shitholes.  Diffrent strokes for diffrent folks and all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 30, 2021, 06:49:46 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2021, 05:27:22 PM

IMHO Orlando is only a "thing" because of Disney, and as a result, that's its only "thing".

Downtown Orlando is actually kinda nice. But the suburbs and surrounding areas are a drag. And you’re 100% right, Disney put Orlando on the map. It wouldn’t be anywhere close to what it is if it wasn’t for Disney.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on March 31, 2021, 02:58:58 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 30, 2021, 03:08:28 PM

Where did you go, out of curiosity?

I found the French quarter to be fine. Kind of grungy and sticky. But the Bywater and the Garden District and some of the neighborhoods are actually quite nice.

I unintentional went right in the middle of Mardi Gras. Was catching a cruise and decided to visit New Orleans for a couple of days to see what it was all about.  Went to the French quarter. Had dinner (very good). Walked over to Bourbon street. Walked one block. Saw a person sliced with a knife. My Daughter-in-law got groped.  Got off at the next block.  Don't understand the appeal. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 31, 2021, 03:11:00 PM

That's kind of like saying, I went to the Eiffel Tower on Bastille Day.  Paris sucks.

You're free to your own opinion, but you didn't really experience New Orleans. 

By the way, the French Quarter is cool, especially when you're NOT there during Mardi Gras, but there's better food, better art, better culture, and even better music, at numerous places outside the Quarter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2021, 04:45:07 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/KIPRUMi.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2021, 04:46:09 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/7glN187.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2021, 04:46:56 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/3q4xkOQ.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2021, 04:48:16 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/zNzZ2iF.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2021, 04:49:05 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/dODqhyu.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2021, 04:49:36 PM

Weather now rainy and getting cold

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 31, 2021, 07:58:07 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 31, 2021, 03:11:00 PM

That's kind of like saying, I went to the Eiffel Tower on Bastille Day.  Paris sucks.

No,no it's its not,if that's a female family member of yours,I don't believe that's your response

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2021, 01:01:13 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 31, 2021, 03:11:00 PM

That's kind of like saying, I went to the Eiffel Tower on Bastille Day.  Paris sucks.

You're free to your own opinion, but you didn't really experience New Orleans.

By the way, the French Quarter is cool, especially when you're NOT there during Mardi Gras, but there's better food, better art, better culture, and even better music, at numerous places outside the Quarter.

Anyone who doesn’t like Paris is just an uncultured dipshit. It’s easily one of the top few greatest cities in the entire world. It’s also the prettiest mega-city there is. By far. 

New Orleans is one of the best cities in America. I’ve always had a blast whenever I’ve been there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2021, 06:11:43 AM

Paris is my least favorite French city

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2021, 08:18:20 AM

There are things I really like about Paris, and things I don't.  In many countries, the people tend to be much nicer in the provinces and less friendly in the big cities. France and Paris are no exception.

But the high concentration of great food and wine within Paris, is hard to match anywhere else on the planet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2021, 08:23:09 AM

I went to NYC. The USA sucks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2021, 08:29:32 AM

I visited downtown Boston on St. Patrick's Day.  The crowds were crazy, drunks everywhere, and I got groped by a small man with an orange beard, a green tophat, and monk shoes with gold buckles.

I don't get the appeal of Boston at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2021, 08:34:28 AM

I don't get the appeal of NYC period. Dirty, obnoxious, dangerous, expensive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 01, 2021, 08:51:17 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 01, 2021, 08:29:32 AM

I visited downtown Boston on St. Patrick's Day.  The crowds were crazy, drunks everywhere, and I got groped by a small man with an orange beard, a green tophat, and monk shoes with gold buckles.

I don't get the appeal of Boston at all.

Don’t talk about our forum members like that. Orange beard you say......?    😂.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2021, 09:47:09 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2021, 08:34:28 AM

I don't get the appeal of NYC period. Dirty, obnoxious, dangerous, expensive.

Lol, I was just there. Funny you say that. 

For me it’s the best city in the US. It has everything- best food city in US, the culture, nightlife, museums, sight seeing, just everything. 

The corona and the inept leadership of dick for brains Cuomo and that stupid sack of shit DeBlasio definitely changed it though. It’s gotten a lot worse and it’s 100% because of those two stupid dickheads.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2021, 09:59:13 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 01, 2021, 08:18:20 AM

There are things I really like about Paris, and things I don't.  In many countries, the people tend to be much nicer in the provinces and less friendly in the big cities. France and Paris are no exception.

But the high concentration of great food and wine within Paris, is hard to match anywhere else on the planet.

The only thing I don’t like about Paris are the people- they’re assholes who don’t like Americans and they show it. 

Oh and the tourist trap restaurants. Most of the restaurants you just walk into off the street are gross. You have to know where to go. But that’s probably true of any major tourist city.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2021, 10:09:14 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2021, 08:34:28 AM

I don't get the appeal of NYC period. Dirty, obnoxious, dangerous, expensive.

I don't get the appeal of any large cities

San Francisco was nice to visit, but I prefer staying north of the bay in Sausalito or Tiburon and riding the ferry to the city and back.

 Dirty, obnoxious, dangerous, expensive. can describe any city over 100,000 people
but, I'm a small town guy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2021, 10:13:28 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 01, 2021, 10:09:14 AM

I don't get the appeal of any large cities

San Francisco was nice to visit, but I prefer staying north of the bay in Sausalito or Tiburon and riding the ferry to the city and back.

 Dirty, obnoxious, dangerous, expensive. can describe any city over 100,000 people
but, I'm a small town guy

Yup, it's all a matter of perspective.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on April 01, 2021, 10:19:31 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 30, 2021, 03:03:03 PM

Orlando is nothing but giant shopping malls, giant theme parks, and awful food with nothing but chain restaurants in the middle of the state with no beaches

Giant shopping malls - Yes
Giant theme parks - Yes
Awful food - Definitely not true.

Orlando is certainly filled with a ton of chain restaurants, as is every other big city in America.

However, it also had an amazing variety of quality restaurants.  Disney itself is home to some really good dining. 

I saw you mention downtown Orlando in another post.  Downtown is filled with quality spots.  The Colonial Dr/Mills area has plenty of options.  It's also known the little Vietnam and little Korea area with tons of mom and pop places with go and grab some authentic food.

I live about an hour from Orlando, and have explored it extensively.  The food scene is top notch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 01, 2021, 10:20:50 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 01, 2021, 08:51:17 AM

Don’t talk about our forum members like that. Orange beard you say......?    😂. 

:D

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2021, 10:30:15 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 01, 2021, 09:47:09 AM

Lol, I was just there. Funny you say that.

For me it’s the best city in the US. It has everything- best food city in US, the culture, nightlife, museums, sight seeing, just everything.

The corona and the inept leadership of dick for brains Cuomo and that stupid sack of shit DeBlasio definitely changed it though. It’s gotten a lot worse and it’s 100% because of those two stupid dickheads.

Hence the reason I have no desire to go there again. It was fine (OK, still dirty) before these DB's wrecked the city.

I'd rather go to Chicago, but that's being wrecked too. People are leaving downtown neighborhoods in droves.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2021, 10:31:11 AM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on April 01, 2021, 10:19:31 AM

Giant shopping malls - Yes
Giant theme parks - Yes
Awful food - Definitely not true.

Orlando is certainly filled with a ton of chain restaurants, as is every other big city in America.

However, it also had an amazing variety of quality restaurants.  Disney itself is home to some really good dining. 

I saw you mention downtown Orlando in another post.  Downtown is filled with quality spots.  The Colonial Dr/Mills area has plenty of options.  It's also known the little Vietnam and little Korea area with tons of mom and pop places with go and grab some authentic food.

I live about an hour from Orlando, and have explored it extensively.  The food scene is top notch.

Didn't Emeril and other chefs come in there to open up shop?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2021, 11:08:44 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2021, 10:31:11 AM

Didn't Emeril and other chefs come in there to open up shop?

Emeril’s restaurant in Orlando was at one of the theme parks- and it was obviously just a licensing deal cash grab- bc that place was GOD awful. Nothing like any of the restaurants he owns and operates and is actually at in New Orleans- those are great. The one in Orlando was god awful. I don’t think it’s even around anymore. 

For me- Orlando kinda sucks. I’m all south florida through and through. Food scene in Miami & Fort Lauderdale is great, lots of independent little spots that are terrific. Martorano’s in Ft Lauderdale is probably the best Italian-American food I’ve ever had even if it’s overpriced, and Pane & Vino in Miami Beach is the best Italian restaurant in the US- and I don’t think it’s particularly close. You’re not finding spots like this in Orlando- they just don’t exist. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 01, 2021, 11:12:18 AM

Humphrey Bogart once pointed out that “A hot dog at the ballpark is better than a steak at the Ritz,”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2021, 11:15:23 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2021, 10:30:15 AM

Hence the reason I have no desire to go there again. It was fine (OK, still dirty) before these DB's wrecked the city.

I'd rather go to Chicago, but that's being wrecked too. People are leaving downtown neighborhoods in droves.

It’s honestly really sad to see. I really love NYC. I have a lot of friends and family from NY- on all different sides of the political aisle- and the only thing they all seem to agree on is they all despise Cuomo & DeBlasio.

I like Chicago, but I feel like everything Chicago has NYC has but more of and better. And I hate the Chicago “pizza”- so I always knock the city down a peg just for that. The dangerous Chicago neighborhoods are more dangerous than the most dangerous NYC neighborhoods. There are just a lot more people in NYC, hence why it might seem more dangerous.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2021, 11:18:34 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 01, 2021, 11:12:18 AM

Humphrey Bogart once pointed out that “A hot dog at the ballpark is better than a steak at the Ritz,”

The fancy overpriced restaurants that are chains like a hotel or Capital Grille are honestly usually the worst. 

Last time I ate at Capital Grille was probably a year ago- and it was $96 for a single Waygu steak that wasn’t even Waygu- and honestly the steak kinda sucked. 

Give me a place like Peter Luger’s in Brooklyn that has I think only 2 locations- all day everyday over places like Capital Grille or Morton’s or Ruth’s Chris. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2021, 11:29:42 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 01, 2021, 09:59:13 AM

The only thing I don’t like about Paris are the people- they’re assholes who don’t like Americans and they show it.

Oh and the tourist trap restaurants. Most of the restaurants you just walk into off the street are gross. You have to know where to go. But that’s probably true of any major tourist city.

Oddly, that was my takeaway as a difference between Italy and Paris.

In Italy, we were in Rome, the Cinque Terre, and Florence. The entire trip (other than grabbing a slice of crappy pizza in the Vatican cafeteria) was mostly walking into restaurants off the street. And with one exception (a sidewalk cafe in Florence), it was outstanding. It didn't seem to matter what restaurant we picked--even a sidewalk cafe near the Colosseum that was in a tourist trap area--we ate wonderfully.

In Paris, I'm not sure we had a restaurant meal I'd describe as memorable in our 3 1/2 days there. Tried to look places up on Yelp and other sites to at least make semi-informed choices.  Our best meal was getting appetizers in our hotel bar--and there none of it was French food lol... 

I'm sure it's simply that we were at the wrong places, but I would have thought that we'd have a higher hit rate in a city known for its food. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2021, 11:36:31 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2021, 11:29:42 AM

Oddly, that was my takeaway as a difference between Italy and Paris.

In Italy, we were in Rome, the Cinque Terre, and Florence. The entire trip (other than grabbing a slice of crappy pizza in the Vatican cafeteria) was mostly walking into restaurants off the street. And with one exception (a sidewalk cafe in Florence), it was outstanding. It didn't seem to matter what restaurant we picked--even a sidewalk cafe near the Colosseum that was in a tourist trap area--we ate wonderfully.

In Paris, I'm not sure we had a restaurant meal I'd describe as memorable in our 3 1/2 days there. Tried to look places up on Yelp and other sites to at least make semi-informed choices.  Our best meal was getting appetizers in our hotel bar--and there none of it was French food lol...

I'm sure it's simply that we were at the wrong places, but I would have thought that we'd have a higher hit rate in a city known for its food.

Agree 100%, and I've always said this. In Italy or Sicily, in just about any city there- you can walk into a place off the street and 9 times out of 10 you're going to have an outstanding meal. I've only had ONE bad spot walking in off the street- and that was a place right by the Vatican. I will say this though- Paris is a much bigger city than any cities in Italy- way more people and I'm sure the rent prices for the restaurants in Paris are sky high compared to that of most restaurants in Italy- so what a lot of them probably do in Paris- they pay a ton of money to be near hotspots and tourists and then cheapen the F out of their food. Makes for a great location and vibe, but disgusting food.

The first couple times I went to Paris- went to a bunch of crap tourist trap places by the Eiffel Tower and Louvre. Then I discovered the TripAdvisor app, and every time I've been back to Paris I've followed that app and have had some outstanding meals there. There are some amazing restaurants in Paris- you just have to know how to find them. I'd ditch Yelp if I were you and download TripAdvisor.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2021, 12:34:48 PM

Most of the time I've been in Europe, it hasn't been as a tourist, but rather as an expat living/working there for months at a time.  So in most cases, the restaurants I've gone to, I've been taken there by my local friends/colleagues.  That's a pretty fantastic way to do it.  Nothing but great experiences.

I've also been as a tourist and when I haven't been able to grab a recommendation from a nearby local friend, I've found that some of the guidebooks have great advice.  Rick Steves never steered me wrong, and another lesser-known one, I think Lonely Planet, also had some good recommendations.

I've never used travel apps because the masses are stupid and make stupid recommendations in general.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2021, 12:36:47 PM

And, I haven't been to NYC in over 20 years, but as a young and single 20-something professional with more money in my pocket than I knew what to do with, I thought it was pretty great at the time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2021, 12:37:28 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 01, 2021, 12:34:48 PM

I've never used travel apps because the masses are stupid and make stupid recommendations in general.

Dude, did OAM get your password? :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2021, 12:42:35 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2021, 12:37:28 PM

Dude, did OAM get your password? :57:

Dude, I've never said he's wrong about that. :)

Seriously though, when I look at the travel app recommendations for my own area, where I have a great deal of expertise in dining, all I can do is shake my head in wonder.

So, why would I think the masses in Paris or New York or Firenze would be any better????

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on April 01, 2021, 01:26:14 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2021, 11:29:42 AM

Oddly, that was my takeaway as a difference between Italy and Paris.

In Italy, we were in Rome, the Cinque Terre, and Florence. The entire trip (other than grabbing a slice of crappy pizza in the Vatican cafeteria) was mostly walking into restaurants off the street. And with one exception (a sidewalk cafe in Florence), it was outstanding. It didn't seem to matter what restaurant we picked--even a sidewalk cafe near the Colosseum that was in a tourist trap area--we ate wonderfully.

In Paris, I'm not sure we had a restaurant meal I'd describe as memorable in our 3 1/2 days there. Tried to look places up on Yelp and other sites to at least make semi-informed choices.  Our best meal was getting appetizers in our hotel bar--and there none of it was French food lol...

I'm sure it's simply that we were at the wrong places, but I would have thought that we'd have a higher hit rate in a city known for its food.

I found the same to be true when I was in Italy.  Didn't matter what restaurant I walked into off the street was great. 

Been a long time since I was in Paris and I can say that no place that I ate there stood out as good, let alone great. Now done in Nimes and Nice, I thought the food was good. 

Only thing that made Paris great for me was The Louvre, Notre Dame and driving down to Versailles.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2021, 02:49:03 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 01, 2021, 12:42:35 PM

Dude, I've never said he's wrong about that. :)

Seriously though, when I look at the travel app recommendations for my own area, where I have a great deal of expertise in dining, all I can do is shake my head in wonder.

So, why would I think the masses in Paris or New York or Firenze would be any better????

Heck, it could be even worse in Paris or Firenze. If I'm on an American web site like Yelp where most of the reviews are in English, I'm not even dealing with Parisian or Italian masses--the reviews may even be dominated by American tourists! 

That said, these sites aren't infallible, and they're not a great substitute for good local knowledge or expert reviews. But most of the time, they're better than nothing. It's one of the many filters I'll use to try to get an idea of where to go, when I'm in a place where I have no personal knowledge to fall back on. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2021, 03:24:13 PM

Heck the Parisians probably deliberately give high ratings to bad restaurants just to trick us Americans.

Bastages!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2021, 03:30:03 PM

I’ve found yelp and opentable to be mostly garbage and useless. TripAdvisor has been on the money no matter where I’ve been in the world. It’s never failed me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2021, 03:32:53 PM

We've discussed rail here a bit, so I wanted to pass this one along. Full disclosure--Cato is a libertarian think tank and this author is pretty much their expert on dismantling transit plans... So it's certainly not fair & balanced. 

Yet I can't find much fault in it.

https://www.cato.org/blog/amtraks-money-losing-vision

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2021, 03:53:43 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 01, 2021, 03:30:03 PM

I’ve found yelp and opentable to be mostly garbage and useless. TripAdvisor has been on the money no matter where I’ve been in the world. It’s never failed me.

Just looking at the top 5 in my own specific suburb, 3 of the top 5 are good to quite good, and the other two are absolute trash.  Like, vomit-inducing garbage.

So you've got a 60% chance of a good meal in my town if you trust Tripadvisor, and a 40% chance of repeatedly shitting your own pants within about 6-8 hours.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2021, 03:55:47 PM

BTW for something like Yelp, you can't just look at the star rating and go with that... It's always important to read reviews too. With that you can get a much better sense of the the quality of the establishment based on the quality of the reviews you read. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2021, 03:58:33 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2021, 03:55:47 PM

BTW for something like Yelp, you can't just look at the star rating and go with that... It's always important to read reviews too. With that you can get a much better sense of the the quality of the establishment based on the quality of the reviews you read.

In general I agree, but reading through all of the pretentious rambling to get to the few nuggets of helpful commentary, is usually more than I can take.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 01, 2021, 04:11:05 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 01, 2021, 03:58:33 PM

In general I agree, but reading through all of the pretentious rambling to get to the few nuggets of helpful commentary, is usually more than I can take. 

utee's a busy man with places to go and things to do

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 01, 2021, 04:18:18 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 01, 2021, 03:53:43 PM

 and the other two are absolute trash.  Like, vomit-inducing garbage.

Leave utee's Trattoria out of this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2021, 04:19:24 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 01, 2021, 04:18:18 PM

Leave utee's Trattoria out of this

There is a really tasty trattoria in my neck of the woods, but I can't lay claim to it in any way, other than being a happy customer upon occasion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 01, 2021, 04:56:25 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2021, 12:37:28 PM

Dude, did OAM get your password? :57:

Are you defending the content of any 'comments' section anywhere on the internet?  Because you'd be the first.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2021, 05:06:44 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 01, 2021, 04:56:25 PM

Are you defending the content of any 'comments' section anywhere on the internet?  Because you'd be the first.

You realize I'm just clowning on you, OAM... I may have a lower opinion of "the masses" than even you do. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2021, 05:15:15 PM

B.R.A.D. hates people. All people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2021, 05:22:18 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2021, 05:15:15 PM

B.R.A.D. hates people. All people.

Same here.  No one can ever accuse me of discriminating or prejudice.  I hate all people equally.

It dovetails nicely with a Libertarian outlook.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 01, 2021, 05:23:54 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 01, 2021, 03:58:33 PM

In general I agree, but reading through all of the pretentious rambling to get to the few nuggets of helpful commentary, is usually more than I can take. 

This!!  Here in Florida I actually look for negative reviews from the out of towners and go to those restaurants because they’re usually the very best ones!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2021, 05:32:31 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2021, 05:15:15 PM

B.R.A.D. hates people. All people.

It's why my license plate reads:

MSNTHRP

Or it would, if California would let me have it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2021, 05:35:59 PM

So.. a little help. I'm tired from surgery today. What the hell is that?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2021, 05:39:45 PM

misanthrope
[ mis-uhn-throhp, miz- ]SHOW IPA


See synonyms for misanthrope on Thesaurus.com (https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/misanthrope)

---

noun
a hater of humankind.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2021, 05:43:44 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/aKrVFSy.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2021, 06:02:00 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 01, 2021, 05:43:44 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/aKrVFSy.png)

Available for $0.60 on Amazon, so it's already on my Kindle... Thanks!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on April 01, 2021, 06:09:58 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2021, 10:31:11 AM

Didn't Emeril and other chefs come in there to open up shop?

A lot of chefs have opened up shop there.  Either directly controlling the restaurant, or, as Mdot mentioned, signing a licensing agreement.

Morimoto, Art Smith, Wolfgang Puck, Jose Andres are a few that come to mind.

Todd English has a restaurant called Blue Zoo he opened at the Swan and Dolphin resort on Disney property.  I can confirm he actually shows up as one of my best friends was one of the head chefs there and worked with him on multiple occasions.

Cool story.  Iron Chef Cat Cora used to have a greek place on Disney's Boardwalk.  I was staying out there with my wife and daughter one weekend.  We decide to take a late night dip in the pool and hot tub.  There are other people there with their kids.  I get to talking with one the guys and it turns out my daughter is playing with Cats kids.  He mentions she's on her way over.  Sure enough she shows up.  We had a few drinks with her and shot the breeze about cooking, etc.  She looked good in a bikini.

So I called my friend the head chef because surely he'd love to hear I hung out with Cat.  He doesn't seem surprised.  Apparently she used to party after hours with some of the other foodies at Blue Zoo.  To the point she was doing shots and dancing on the bar topless.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 01, 2021, 06:14:15 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2021, 05:06:44 PM

You realize I'm just clowning on you, OAM... I may have a lower opinion of "the masses" than even you do.

Yes, but many defend "the masses" earnestly.  
My frustration isn't that I hate everyone, it's that the masses don't have to be that way.  We allow ourselves to be influenced by advertisers, algorithms, and tribalism EVEN WHEN WE KNOW WE ARE.
It's embarrassing...except it's not, because the masses somehow turn things around 180 degrees and take pride in their faults instead of, you know, working to improve them.  
All you need is another chode like yourself to avoid looking at yourself in the mirror.  
.
*Note:  "the masses" are approximately the middle 2/3 of the population, not everyone, not necessarily YOU, and not this and that anecdotal exception you want to retort with

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2021, 06:16:50 PM

Speaking of chefs and restaurants, the new season of Top Chef starts tonight... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2021, 06:19:25 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2021, 06:02:00 PM

Available for $0.60 on Amazon, so it's already on my Kindle... Thanks!

Ha!  I hope you're not disappointed.  It's pretty dry, plus there's sometimes something lost in translation from 17th century France to current-day USA. 

But still, it's cleverly written and I rather enjoyed performing in that play in high school, playing the role of Alceste who is the lead, protagonist, and title character of the play.  It didn't hurt that a VERY cute girl played the female lead opposite me, she was a senior when I was a sophomore, and it led to some very good times.

From Moliere's other works I've read, I get the feeling he himself was not unlike Alceste.  The play might have been somewhat autobiographical.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2021, 06:21:37 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 01, 2021, 06:14:15 PM

Yes, but many defend "the masses" earnestly. 
My frustration isn't that I hate everyone, it's that the masses don't have to be that way.  We allow ourselves to be influenced by advertisers, algorithms, and tribalism EVEN WHEN WE KNOW WE ARE.
It's embarrassing...except it's not, because the masses somehow turn things around 180 degrees and take pride in their faults instead of, you know, working to improve them. 
All you need is another chode like yourself to avoid looking at yourself in the mirror. 
.
*Note:  "the masses" are approximately the middle 2/3 of the population, not everyone, not necessarily YOU, and not this and that anecdotal exception you want to retort with

And those you consider to be the undesirable masses, consider you to be the undesirable masses in turn.

Same as it ever was.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2021, 06:23:04 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 01, 2021, 06:14:15 PM

My frustration isn't that I hate everyone, it's that the masses don't have to be that way.

Yeah they do. 

You're a teacher, so I admire your optimism that they don't. 

But they do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 01, 2021, 06:45:10 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 01, 2021, 06:21:37 PM

And those you consider to be the undesirable masses, consider you to be the undesirable masses in turn.

Same as it ever was.

There can be only one masses.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2021, 06:50:39 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 01, 2021, 06:45:10 PM

There can be only one masses.

(https://i.imgur.com/0BwfPqR.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2021, 07:33:50 PM

What always interests me is the members of the masses who don't recognize that they're the masses...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2021, 07:42:57 PM

Masses my ass. F masses.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 01, 2021, 08:36:02 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2021, 07:33:50 PM

What always interests me is the members of the masses who don't recognize that they're the masses...

I use 'we' when discussing the masses.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2021, 12:02:23 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2021, 03:32:53 PM

We've discussed rail here a bit, so I wanted to pass this one along. Full disclosure--Cato is a libertarian think tank and this author is pretty much their expert on dismantling transit plans... So it's certainly not fair & balanced.

Yet I can't find much fault in it.

https://www.cato.org/blog/amtraks-money-losing-vision

"high-speed" rail is being built in Florida right now. The trains max out at 130mph I think- which is fastest thing in the crummy USA train scene- far car from the top speeds trains in Europe & Asia hit. But hey, it's a start, right?

It was called "Brightline" but it's been rebranded as VirginTrains USA with Richard Branson getting involved. The stations/lines are already done and open from West Palm Beach to Ft Lauderdale to Miami. That's all been open for a couple years now- recently just shut down due to covid (THANKS CHINA)-  but super nice brand new trains, super nice brand new stations, and the tickets were cheap. I even took it a couple times. Freaking loved it. You can go from downtown WPB to downtown Miami in about an hr. They are currently building new rail out to Orlando Airport- then from MCO to Disney World.

Downtown Boca Raton is getting rail built and a brand new station built close to Mizner Park and a brand new station and rail is being built at the Aventura Mall (super high-end mall in Aventura- which is a rich ass city just 10 miles or so north of Miami lined as far as the eye can see with multi-million dollar condo high-rises).

So VirginTrains USA high-speed rail is going to go from Miami -> Aventura -> Ft Lauderdale -> Boca Raton -> West Palm Beach - > MCO -> Disney World - and back by 2022. Pretty f'n cool. Just wish they could hit like 200mph. Miami and the stops in between WPB- definitely nowhere near enough room to hit those kind of speeds- but nothing but white trash cows and farm land with cows as far as the eye can see from WPB to Orlando- plenty of space to go faaaaast.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2021, 12:06:31 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2021, 03:55:47 PM

BTW for something like Yelp, you can't just look at the star rating and go with that... It's always important to read reviews too. With that you can get a much better sense of the the quality of the establishment based on the quality of the reviews you read.

If a place has almost 5,000 reviews and it's average review is 5*.....it's really damn good. Just think of how many idiots and assholes there are on the internet. That kind of rating is impossible. Places like that- always live up to the hype.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2021, 12:08:59 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 01, 2021, 03:53:43 PM

Just looking at the top 5 in my own specific suburb, 3 of the top 5 are good to quite good, and the other two are absolute trash.  Like, vomit-inducing garbage.

So you've got a 60% chance of a good meal in my town if you trust Tripadvisor, and a 40% chance of repeatedly shitting your own pants within about 6-8 hours.

I've found TripAdvisor isn't great for suburbs. Really just good for the really big cities/tourist spots.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 02, 2021, 07:31:44 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on April 01, 2021, 01:26:14 PM

I found the same to be true when I was in Italy.  Didn't matter what restaurant I walked into off the street was great.

Been a long time since I was in Paris and I can say that no place that I ate there stood out as good, let alone great. Now done in Nimes and Nice, I thought the food was good.

Only thing that made Paris great for me was The Louvre, Notre Dame and driving down to Versailles.

Heh, man I had the opposite experience. I had some great meals in Italy, but certainly not all of them. Where Paris was fabulous - I say this all the time but we went to a Mexican restaurant there and had the best Mexican food I've ever had, something I'm still chasing. In any event, we also went to the Notre Dame, the Louvre, and Versailles, and honestly I could have skipped all of them and been happier for it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 02, 2021, 08:00:42 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 02, 2021, 12:02:23 AM

"high-speed" rail is being built in Florida right now. The trains max out at 130mph I think- which is fastest thing in the crummy USA train scene- far car from the top speeds trains in Europe & Asia hit. But hey, it's a start, right?

It was called "Brightline" but it's been rebranded as VirginTrains USA with Richard Branson getting involved. The stations/lines are already done and open from West Palm Beach to Ft Lauderdale to Miami. That's all been open for a couple years now- recently just shut down due to covid (THANKS CHINA)-  but super nice brand new trains, super nice brand new stations, and the tickets were cheap. I even took it a couple times. Freaking loved it. You can go from downtown WPB to downtown Miami in about an hr. They are currently building new rail out to Orlando Airport- then from MCO to Disney World.

Downtown Boca Raton is getting rail built and a brand new station built close to Mizner Park and a brand new station and rail is being built at the Aventura Mall (super high-end mall in Aventura- which is a rich ass city just 10 miles or so north of Miami lined as far as the eye can see with multi-million dollar condo high-rises).

So VirginTrains USA high-speed rail is going to go from Miami -> Aventura -> Ft Lauderdale -> Boca Raton -> West Palm Beach - > MCO -> Disney World - and back by 2022. Pretty f'n cool. Just wish they could hit like 200mph. Miami and the stops in between WPB- definitely nowhere near enough room to hit those kind of speeds- but nothing but white trash cows and farm land with cows as far as the eye can see from WPB to Orlando- plenty of space to go faaaaast.

Gotta love how you disparage those of us that don't happen to share your affinity for big city living. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2021, 08:32:10 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 02, 2021, 07:31:44 AM

Heh, man I had the opposite experience. I had some great meals in Italy, but certainly not all of them. Where Paris was fabulous - I say this all the time but we went to a Mexican restaurant there and had the best Mexican food I've ever had, something I'm still chasing. In any event, we also went to the Notre Dame, the Louvre, and Versailles, and honestly I could have skipped all of them and been happier for it.

Public Service Announcement:  This is why anecdotal evidence isn't useful.  Person A has one experience and Person B has the opposite experience.  Both are correct for themselves, but neither is right overall.  
.
Thank you for the fine example.  No, this post isn't the problem in any way, it's a useful teaching tool.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2021, 08:33:19 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 02, 2021, 12:02:23 AM

 but nothing but white trash cows and farm land with cows as far as the eye can see from WPB to Orlando- plenty of space to go faaaaast.

Don't you mean fine people of a certain persuasion?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 02, 2021, 08:40:54 AM

In my 5 visits, I've only had one bad meal in Italy. Of course, it was near the Coliseum.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 02, 2021, 08:49:51 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 02, 2021, 12:08:59 AM

I've found TripAdvisor isn't great for suburbs. Really just good for the really big cities/tourist spots.

My "suburb" is directly connected to the Austin metro of 2.2M people.  It has two of the five best BBQ restaurants, in the best BBQ city, in the entire world.  Neither of those even made the top 50 restaurants in my area.

You like Tripadvisor, I get it.  I think it sucks only slightly less than Yelp. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 02, 2021, 08:59:33 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2021, 07:33:50 PM

What always interests me is the members of the masses who don't recognize that they're the masses...

Testify,non Marzen making Bwarb,Testify

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 02, 2021, 09:01:16 AM

I've not used tripadvisor, yelp, or any other service such as that

certainly not reading crazy comments about some place on social media

but, I'm old

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 02, 2021, 09:07:00 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 02, 2021, 08:40:54 AM

In my 5 visits, I've only had one bad meal in Italy. Of course, it was near the Coliseum.

Funny i saw an article how they're still finding bits/pieces of the Gladiators to this day

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 02, 2021, 09:13:52 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 02, 2021, 08:49:51 AM

My "suburb" is directly connected to the Austin metro of 2.2M people.  It has two of the five best BBQ restaurants, in the best BBQ city, in the entire world.  Neither of those even made the top 50 restaurants in my area.

You like Tripadvisor, I get it.  I think it sucks only slightly less than Yelp.

Are used to have a job that involved travel to and through a lot of small towns. So I would mostly use yelp and TripAdvisor for things like what are 2 to 4 restaurants that are actually local and then what might sound good.

and even with that small task I was often disappointed or sad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 02, 2021, 09:34:57 AM

https://www.realtor.com/news/trends/cities-that-will-dominate-home-construction/


Quick and interesting read about where house are being built.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 02, 2021, 10:45:11 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 02, 2021, 09:34:57 AM

https://www.realtor.com/news/trends/cities-that-will-dominate-home-construction/


Quick and interesting read about where house are being built. 

Interesting list. It’s though that it’s a flat number, just because of geography/current size/etc.

it doesn’t make me laugh because in a city where a couple of my friends live it describes their situation to a T. they were mad about bidding wars, they found a lot in a cul-de-sac they liked and they just built one. (and I get to move to that market soon enough)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 02, 2021, 10:49:13 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 02, 2021, 12:02:23 AM

"high-speed" rail is being built in Florida right now. The trains max out at 130mph I think- which is fastest thing in the crummy USA train scene- far car from the top speeds trains in Europe & Asia hit. But hey, it's a start, right?

It was called "Brightline" but it's been rebranded as VirginTrains USA with Richard Branson getting involved. The stations/lines are already done and open from West Palm Beach to Ft Lauderdale to Miami. That's all been open for a couple years now- recently just shut down due to covid (THANKS CHINA)-  but super nice brand new trains, super nice brand new stations, and the tickets were cheap. I even took it a couple times. Freaking loved it. You can go from downtown WPB to downtown Miami in about an hr. They are currently building new rail out to Orlando Airport- then from MCO to Disney World.

Downtown Boca Raton is getting rail built and a brand new station built close to Mizner Park and a brand new station and rail is being built at the Aventura Mall (super high-end mall in Aventura- which is a rich ass city just 10 miles or so north of Miami lined as far as the eye can see with multi-million dollar condo high-rises).

So VirginTrains USA high-speed rail is going to go from Miami -> Aventura -> Ft Lauderdale -> Boca Raton -> West Palm Beach - > MCO -> Disney World - and back by 2022. Pretty f'n cool. Just wish they could hit like 200mph. Miami and the stops in between WPB- definitely nowhere near enough room to hit those kind of speeds- but nothing but white trash cows and farm land with cows as far as the eye can see from WPB to Orlando- plenty of space to go faaaaast.

So, I'm looking at a map and have no local knowledge... Correct me if I'm wrong.

I can absolutely see a use for train service across that corridor between Miama and WPB. Could be useful for commuters and just in general due to what I'm sure is horrific traffic. 

But I can't see the argument for connecting it to Orlando... How many daily trips are there between South Florida and Orlando? Enough to actually have good ridership numbers? Will it be even close to cost-competitive with driving? 

Orlando is one of the few places it could make sense, because quite frankly Disney prefers that once you're on their property, you don't have a car to leave lol... And if you're doing the Disney resort thing, you frankly don't need the car anyway. 

But I wonder if there's any way to make money on that leg of the route? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 02, 2021, 10:52:48 AM

In Texas there have long been proposals for high speed rail from Houston-Dallas, and Dallas-San Antonio which includes Austin.  Personally I'd love it, I could get to Dallas in 1/3 the time without having to drive.  But in general people down here love their cars.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 02, 2021, 10:55:08 AM

This just popped up in my neighborhood. 

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/26676-Calle-Alcala-Mission-Viejo-CA-92691/25627818_zpid/?

This is the family with the son playing bball at college in Davenport, IA. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 02, 2021, 11:02:00 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 02, 2021, 10:52:48 AM

In Texas there have long been proposals for high speed rail from Houston-Dallas, and Dallas-San Antonio which includes Austin.  Personally I'd love it, I could get to Dallas in 1/3 the time without having to drive.  But in general people down here love their cars. 

The hard part IMHO is that for a number of those cities, once you step off that train, you almost immediately need a car. I think all of those cities have quite a lot of sprawl going on.

It's much easier now that we have Uber and Lyft, because it's provided a much more realistic way of getting around than taxi service, which usually isn't very good in cities of sprawl. Before Uber and Lyft, unless you knew you ONLY wanted to be in the heart of downtown... You needed a car. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 02, 2021, 11:03:54 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 02, 2021, 10:55:08 AM

This just popped up in my neighborhood.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/26676-Calle-Alcala-Mission-Viejo-CA-92691/25627818_zpid/?

This is the family with the son playing bball at college in Davenport, IA.

Is there a screaming deal for your part of the world? It feels like it would be where I grew up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 02, 2021, 11:04:50 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 02, 2021, 11:02:00 AM

The hard part IMHO is that for a number of those cities, once you step off that train, you almost immediately need a car. I think all of those cities have quite a lot of sprawl going on.

It's much easier now that we have Uber and Lyft, because it's provided a much more realistic way of getting around than taxi service, which usually isn't very good in cities of sprawl. Before Uber and Lyft, unless you knew you ONLY wanted to be in the heart of downtown... You needed a car.

I don’t know a ton about the geography of some of those cities but definitely for Houston. That place will be disaster on foot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 02, 2021, 11:09:21 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 02, 2021, 11:04:50 AM

I don’t know a ton about the geography of some of those cities but definitely for Houston. That place will be disaster on foot.

we have plenty of horses 

dont worry bout us

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2021, 11:14:18 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 02, 2021, 10:49:13 AM

But I can't see the argument for connecting it to Orlando... How many daily trips are there between South Florida and Orlando? Enough to actually have good ridership numbers? Will it be even close to cost-competitive with driving?

If your high-dollar, high-stress Disney vacation also included a day and/or night on South Beach, with low-effort travel, maybe it becomes more appealing?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 02, 2021, 11:15:51 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 02, 2021, 11:03:54 AM

Is there a screaming deal for your part of the world? It feels like it would be where I grew up.

If you're rating just on neighborhood, bedrooms, and square footage, it's a little on the high end IMHO for a neighborhood built in the mid-70s. It's turnkey/renovated and has a pool, though, which is where the extra comes from. 

At that level, it probably puts it in the upper 15% of the homes in this tract, which is one reason I wouldn't be interested in it... They say you never buy the nicest house on the block, right? 

That would be a screaming deal for the Bay Area though lol... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 02, 2021, 11:21:38 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2021, 11:14:18 AM

If your high-dollar, high-stress Disney vacation also included a day and/or night on South Beach, with low-effort travel, maybe it becomes more appealing?

Maybe. I know when I was 10 and my family did the Florida vacation, we did a couple days in the Disney complex and then did Cocoa Beach... I can see the appeal of combining Disney with actually seeing an ocean--I'd never seen one before that. Closest I'd ever seen was Lake Michigan.

'Course it was the 80s, we were middle-class and no way my parents would put all three of us kids on an airplane, so we drove the Oldsmobile the whole way from Chicago to Orlando, so we had a car lol ;-) 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 02, 2021, 11:26:26 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 02, 2021, 11:15:51 AM

If you're rating just on neighborhood, bedrooms, and square footage, it's a little on the high end IMHO for a neighborhood built in the mid-70s. It's turnkey/renovated and has a pool, though, which is where the extra comes from.

At that level, it probably puts it in the upper 15% of the homes in this tract, which is one reason I wouldn't be interested in it... They say you never buy the nicest house on the block, right?

That would be a screaming deal for the Bay Area though lol...

I like to walk neighborhoods in my hometown. Zillow let me find out prices of some thing I’m standing here.

And a feeling of, you can’t go home again washes over me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2021, 11:34:37 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 02, 2021, 10:49:13 AM

So, I'm looking at a map and have no local knowledge... Correct me if I'm wrong.

I can absolutely see a use for train service across that corridor between Miama and WPB. Could be useful for commuters and just in general due to what I'm sure is horrific traffic.

But I can't see the argument for connecting it to Orlando... How many daily trips are there between South Florida and Orlando? Enough to actually have good ridership numbers? Will it be even close to cost-competitive with driving?

Orlando is one of the few places it could make sense, because quite frankly Disney prefers that once you're on their property, you don't have a car to leave lol... And if you're doing the Disney resort thing, you frankly don't need the car anyway.

But I wonder if there's any way to make money on that leg of the route?

Traffic in South FL is god awful, and it gets increasingly worse the further south you go, so during rush hour in the am and pm when people are going to work and leaving work- could see it absolutely being 100% useful and many people actually wanting to use it. I could see people using it everyday if they had to work in Miami but not have to live there.

My guess is the whole connecting it to Orlando is an effort to boost tourism in both Orlando and SoFL. Get families that fly into Disney and might not want to rent a car and drive for 4 hours to Miami to just take the train- and then get families from SoFL who might not want to drive up to Orlando to take the train right into Disney. The tickets would have to be cost effective though for a family to even want to consider it. If it's too much- might as well just rent the car or even fly. Which gets back to your point- how would the operators make money on that long stretch to Orlando? I haven't a clue.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2021, 11:36:44 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2021, 11:14:18 AM

If your high-dollar, high-stress Disney vacation also included a day and/or night on South Beach, with low-effort travel, maybe it becomes more appealing?

South Beach used to be really nice, it's now become a complete and utter shithole thanks to a certain class of people. I blame the gangster rappers and NBA basketball players.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2021, 11:42:30 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 02, 2021, 11:02:00 AM

The hard part IMHO is that for a number of those cities, once you step off that train, you almost immediately need a car. I think all of those cities have quite a lot of sprawl going on.

It's much easier now that we have Uber and Lyft, because it's provided a much more realistic way of getting around than taxi service, which usually isn't very good in cities of sprawl. Before Uber and Lyft, unless you knew you ONLY wanted to be in the heart of downtown... You needed a car.

This is also the problem with the current high-speed rail in SoFL. As soon as you get off in downtown WPB, downtown Ft. Laud, or downtown Miami - you need a car lol. There is zero public transportation. Lyft & Uber certainly help- but they can get pricey- it's not like NYC/London/Paris where you can just get off the high-speed rail and then hop on a subway on the cheap and literally get anywhere. Wish it was.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2021, 11:45:42 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 02, 2021, 08:40:54 AM

In my 5 visits, I've only had one bad meal in Italy. Of course, it was near the Coliseum.

Same here lol. Never had a bad meal in my many visits, except one- and that was near the Vatican.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2021, 11:49:09 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 02, 2021, 10:55:08 AM

This just popped up in my neighborhood.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/26676-Calle-Alcala-Mission-Viejo-CA-92691/25627818_zpid/?

This is the family with the son playing bball at college in Davenport, IA.

$870k for 1,800 sq ft. Crazy lol. At least the house looks really nice on the inside.

Right now in Boca/Delray area a tiny piece of shit on a canal/intercoastal that's 1,500-1,800 sq ft. from the 60's that's run down and not kept up and has never been re-done at all- basically a complete piece of shit- going for $1.3mil-$1.5mil. People are just buying them up right now to tear them down and build new homes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2021, 11:51:26 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 02, 2021, 09:34:57 AM

https://www.realtor.com/news/trends/cities-that-will-dominate-home-construction/


Quick and interesting read about where house are being built. 

Not surprised nowhere in SoFL is on the list. No freaking land. 

A little surprised Tampa is on this list. It's an armpit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 02, 2021, 12:11:16 PM

$975,000 house in Houston area

https://www.blackshearrealty.com/search/details/14pv/10/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 02, 2021, 12:24:08 PM

Looks like it's on stilts :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 02, 2021, 01:17:24 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 02, 2021, 11:02:00 AM

The hard part IMHO is that for a number of those cities, once you step off that train, you almost immediately need a car. I think all of those cities have quite a lot of sprawl going on.

It's much easier now that we have Uber and Lyft, because it's provided a much more realistic way of getting around than taxi service, which usually isn't very good in cities of sprawl. Before Uber and Lyft, unless you knew you ONLY wanted to be in the heart of downtown... You needed a car.

Absolutely.  It's really sort of another version of "the last mile" problem.  Public transit isn't great in any city in Texas anyway, although Dallas's DART rail system isn't terrible.  But mostly it's just really poorly run buses, that run inconvenient routes at inconvenient times.  So as you say, once you arrive, you probably still need a car.

Plus, Texans love their cars anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 02, 2021, 01:31:19 PM

I've definitely found that travel now that Uber/Lyft exist really opens things up to not have a car, even in those types of cities though. It really does provide that "last mile" service when you don't have an adequate taxi system and don't want to be relegated to bus schedules.

When I wrap a business trip to Denver around a weekend there with my wife, I typically have a rental car for all the business stuff as I have to go down to Colorado Springs and all around the Denver metro for meetings... And the company is paying for it. Usually what I do on the day she flies in is drive to the airport, drop off the rental car, and then we ride the light rail downtown. Not everything is walkable, even in lower downtown where we like to stay, even considering I consider a several mile walk to be walkable lol. Taxi service in Denver is sparse. But Uber/Lyft are all over the place, rarely more than 5 minutes waiting on a ride. 

Given that I'm avoiding the cost of renting a car, filling it with gas, paying to park it at a downtown hotel... AND it means I can drink without having to worry about driving because, well, it's Denver! Gonna be doing some drinking. More than worth the cost of Uber/Lyft.

I'm still not sure that makes most rail transit (HSR or otherwise) make sense relative to air travel, but I will say that the world has changed from where it was a decade ago to solve that "last mile" problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 02, 2021, 01:34:58 PM

I'll use Uber but I honestly don't love it.  It's better than a taxi, but I don't like getting into someone else's personal car, and having them drive me around.  It's weird.

I also had a crazily bad Uber experience a couple years back, I don't know if the driver was drunk or high or just a lunatic.  He was driving all over the road, blew through two different traffic lights, before I made him pull over and drop me off.  I know weird stuff can happen in a taxi too, though I've never personally experienced it.

All to say, just one more reason I prefer to take my own car, or arrange to be in an area that's 100% walkable once I arrive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 02, 2021, 01:46:30 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 02, 2021, 11:36:44 AM

South Beach used to be really nice, it's now become a complete and utter shithole thanks to a certain class of people. I blame the gangster rappers and NBA basketball players.

Wealthy people? That’s what the NBA players and many of the rappers are. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 02, 2021, 01:52:12 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 02, 2021, 01:46:30 PM

Wealthy people? That’s what the NBA players and many of the rappers are.

(https://i.imgur.com/Tei6xd0.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2021, 01:56:08 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 02, 2021, 11:36:44 AM

South Beach used to be really nice, it's now become a complete and utter shithole thanks to a certain class of people. I blame the gangster rappers and NBA basketball players.

But isn't it now really nice to that class of people?  
You sound a tiny bit judgemental here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2021, 01:59:22 PM

On a longer timeline, a high-speed rail in FL is going to turn and go to Tampa Bay and possibly continue up to Jacksonville.  
St. Augustine, Daytona Beach, Sawgrass and all that would be a good alternative to South Beach.  The Gulf Stream keeps the water warm up that way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 02, 2021, 02:04:36 PM

HSR along alligator alley might make some sense too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2021, 02:41:35 PM

It would be bookin' it from Naples to Miami.  But good luck with the environmental hurdles on that one.  It could be coated in the skins from hunted pythons maybe...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2021, 02:49:56 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 02, 2021, 01:46:30 PM

Wealthy people? That’s what the NBA players and many of the rappers are.

Wealthy people never really lived in South Beach, they lived South or North of south beach. 

The rappers and NBA players made it popular for the ghetto trash that have infested it and ruined it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2021, 02:55:13 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2021, 01:59:22 PM

On a longer timeline, a high-speed rail in FL is going to turn and go to Tampa Bay and possibly continue up to Jacksonville. 
St. Augustine, Daytona Beach, Sawgrass and all that would be a good alternative to South Beach.  The Gulf Stream keeps the water warm up that way.

There is already plans in works to expand it to Tampa. Hopefully they extend it all over the state.

Those places won’t be an alternative to south beach. Rich people, athletes, rappers, celebs, and dope boys go to south beach to rent Lambos & rolls Royces, party out of control, do lots of drugs, be seen in high-end establishments & restaurants and mingle with celebs, go to topples beaches or find smoking hot women to have sexual relations with. Can’t find any that in those other places.

It has gotten so out of control and become a shithole though. They need to destroy all the cheap old hotels and ghetto ass apartments and rebuild like they did south of fifth, beef up the police force, and close down bars earlier.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 02, 2021, 03:07:16 PM

Frank’s RedHot Hot Sauce – that zesty cayenne sauce that’s the key ingredient in Buffalo wings, America’s No. 1 hot sauce, the one that’s advertised with the tagline, “I put that ___ on everything” – was created more than 100 years ago in Cincinnati.

If you didn’t know that last fact, you might be excused. Even the brand’s website doesn’t mention Cincinnati in its history, instead focusing on the Louisiana connection.

But make no mistake, Frank’s RedHot was born and bottled in the Queen City, produced by the Frank Tea and Spice Co., and first put on shelves in 1920.

Before we get there, though, let’s start at the beginning.


https://www.cincinnati.com/story/entertainment/2021/04/01/franks-redhot-hot-sauce-founded-cincinnati/6998933002/ (https://www.cincinnati.com/story/entertainment/2021/04/01/franks-redhot-hot-sauce-founded-cincinnati/6998933002/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 02, 2021, 03:16:51 PM

I'm a Cholula guy myself.  But there's room for plenty of hot sauces.

(https://i.imgur.com/AQI6TM3.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 02, 2021, 03:27:56 PM

I lik'em both, but prefer something with a little more heat

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 02, 2021, 03:29:05 PM

I prefer flavor over heat and that's invariably the tradeoff.

That's why I land on Cholula.  Decent heat, and far better flavor than the hotter alternatives.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 02, 2021, 03:30:42 PM

agreed, habanero is warm enough for me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2021, 03:45:36 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 02, 2021, 02:55:13 PM

There is already plans in works to expand it to Tampa. Hopefully they extend it all over the state.

Those places won’t be an alternative to south beach. Rich people, athletes, rappers, celebs, and dope boys go to south beach to rent Lambos & rolls Royces, party out of control, do lots of drugs, be seen in high-end establishments & restaurants and mingle with celebs, go to topples beaches or find smoking hot women to have sexual relations with. Can’t find any that in those other places.

It has gotten so out of control and become a shithole though. They need to destroy all the cheap old hotels and ghetto ass apartments and rebuild like they did south of fifth, beef up the police force, and close down bars earlier.

How does closing bard down earlier mesh with the paragraph above it?  
And btw, Tampa is basically the strip club capital of earth.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 02, 2021, 04:13:13 PM

We've got a guy who does hot sauce and basically sells at all the local farmers markets. 

https://www.chonehotsauce.com/

Not that I assume you guys are just going to start ordering hot sauce, taste-unseen, but it's good stuff.

I'm about out, so need to make a farmers market run soon. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 02, 2021, 05:14:06 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2021, 02:41:35 PM

It would be bookin' it from Naples to Miami.  But good luck with the environmental hurdles on that one.  It could be coated in the skins from hunted pythons maybe...

It would have to be built in the median of the existing highway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 02, 2021, 05:23:44 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 02, 2021, 03:29:05 PM

I prefer flavor over heat 

Just going to say that my FAV vvvvvvvvvvvv

(https://i.imgur.com/9YCRCi2.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2021, 06:11:57 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2021, 03:45:36 PM

How does closing bard down earlier mesh with the paragraph above it? 
And btw, Tampa is basically the strip club capital of earth.

Because too many of them are open super late and too many morons get loaded up on liquor and drugs and do dumb shit. 

Let the really expensive, exclusive, fancy places with dress codes stay open late as hell. All the other ones- shut em down early.  

Tampa is the strip club capital of meth’d out toothless white trash, maybe. Tampa strip clubs do not have shit on South Florida strip clubs. The girls in general are way better looking in South Florida, and it’s especially true of the titty bar crowd.

South Florida has the most beautiful women of anywhere in this entire country- and it’s not particularly close. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 02, 2021, 06:53:06 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 02, 2021, 06:11:57 PM

Let the really expensive, exclusive, fancy places with dress codes stay open late as hell. All the other ones- shut em down early. 

This sounds deeply weird to me, like if you're rich, you get the right to have entertainment when less right folks should not. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2021, 08:59:02 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 02, 2021, 06:53:06 PM

This sounds deeply weird to me, like if you're rich, you get the right to have entertainment when less right folks should not.

The people causing all the f’ing commotion and chaos and anarchy in south beach right now aren’t rich. They aren’t white. They aren’t college kids.

The intention is to get as many of those people out and stop them from coming as possible.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 02, 2021, 10:03:21 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 02, 2021, 06:53:06 PM

This sounds deeply weird to me, like if you're rich, you get the right to have entertainment when less right folks should not.

if you are better behaved, it's not about the money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 02, 2021, 10:04:56 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 02, 2021, 06:11:57 PM

Because too many of them are open super late and too many morons get loaded up on liquor and drugs and do dumb shit.

Let the really expensive, exclusive, fancy places with dress codes stay open late as hell. All the other ones- shut em down early. 

Tampa is the strip club capital of meth’d out toothless white trash, maybe. Tampa strip clubs do not have shit on South Florida strip clubs. The girls in general are way better looking in South Florida, and it’s especially true of the titty bar crowd.

South Florida has the most beautiful women of anywhere in this entire country- and it’s not particularly close.

pure platinum in Ft. Lauderdale didn't suck back in the 90s

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 02, 2021, 10:17:37 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 02, 2021, 08:59:02 PM

The people causing all the f’ing commotion and chaos and anarchy in south beach right now aren’t rich. They aren’t white. They aren’t college kids.

The intention is to get as many of those people out and stop them from coming as possible.

Ah, I'm picking up what you're putting down. Get what you're saying loud and clear. ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2021, 11:33:50 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 02, 2021, 08:59:02 PM

The people causing all the f’ing commotion and chaos and anarchy in south beach right now aren’t rich. They aren’t white. They aren’t college kids.

The intention is to get as many of those people out and stop them from coming as possible.

Yeah, I think this is called racism.  Classism?  Maybe it's just mean or wrong.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2021, 11:41:44 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 02, 2021, 05:14:06 PM

It would have to be built in the median of the existing highway.

But still.
You're not going to be elevating it, due to cost.  So your heavy-ass train is going to have a short bridge EVERYWHERE the road does?  You're not filling in any of those marshy areas where there's a 50-yard bridge?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2021, 11:46:05 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 02, 2021, 06:11:57 PM

Because too many of them are open super late and too many morons get loaded up on liquor and drugs and do dumb shit.

Is this not an appeal for rich, classy types to be out late as well?  You're pretending two different groups are out late for different reasons when they're not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 03, 2021, 09:26:32 AM

This thread keeps getting weirder and weirder.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 03, 2021, 09:34:22 AM

More weird.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 03, 2021, 09:45:18 AM

I'm having a big cup of 1,3,7-trimethylxanthine this morning

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 03, 2021, 09:51:15 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 03, 2021, 09:34:22 AM

More weird.

Fan Death

There is a common belief in South Korea that falling asleep in a closed room with an electric fan running can lead to death. Cases of suspected fan death are sometimes reported by the media, and new fans are equipped with automatic timers as a precaution. Though fan death is technically possible, as the use of a fan can hasten dehydration and thus lead to heat exhaustion, the more popular ideas about how fans might kill people have all been debunked by science.

https://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Fan+death (https://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Fan+death)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 03, 2021, 09:53:49 AM

that too

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 03, 2021, 10:01:17 AM

The U.S. Marine Corps is on the verge of its first major reorganization in a century, one that will position America’s premier amphibious force to land on China’s doorstep.

The Marines will organize into smaller units capable of operating across vast distances, seizing China’s network of artificial island bases in the South China Sea. The revamp will see the Marines trade in their tanks, artillery, and even some F-35s in return for long-range missiles, unmanned boats, and anti-ship weapons.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a36005513/us-marine-corps-historic-reinvention/ (https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a36005513/us-marine-corps-historic-reinvention/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 03, 2021, 10:02:40 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 03, 2021, 09:51:15 AM

Fan Death

There is a common belief in South Korea that falling asleep in a closed room with an electric fan running can lead to death. Cases of suspected fan death are sometimes reported by the media, and new fans are equipped with automatic timers as a precaution. Though fan death is technically possible, as the use of a fan can hasten dehydration and thus lead to heat exhaustion, the more popular ideas about how fans might kill people have all been debunked by science.

https://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Fan+death (https://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Fan+death)

correlation doesnt mean causation 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 03, 2021, 10:05:01 AM

I'm not a fan of either of those responses

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 03, 2021, 10:17:01 AM

I'm gonna need more caffeine for this thread.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 03, 2021, 10:29:38 AM

since the MLB all-star game is being moved, I read this article.

https://www.onlineathens.com/story/news/state/2021/03/28/new-georgia-voting-law-what-does-sb-202-change-elections/7038406002/ (https://www.onlineathens.com/story/news/state/2021/03/28/new-georgia-voting-law-what-does-sb-202-change-elections/7038406002/)

I didn't see anything in there that seemed to make it unusually difficult for people of color to cast a ballot.  But, my lens is different than some.

Perhaps this writer is biased.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 03, 2021, 10:29:54 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 03, 2021, 10:01:17 AM

The U.S. Marine Corps is on the verge of its first major reorganization in a century, one that will position America’s premier amphibious force to land on China’s doorstep.

Pipe Dream I hope,gotta believe there is a tremendous home field adv.there.Not only in numbers but obviously germ warfare.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 03, 2021, 10:50:42 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 03, 2021, 10:29:38 AM

since the MLB all-star game is being moved, I read this article.

https://www.onlineathens.com/story/news/state/2021/03/28/new-georgia-voting-law-what-does-sb-202-change-elections/7038406002/ (https://www.onlineathens.com/story/news/state/2021/03/28/new-georgia-voting-law-what-does-sb-202-change-elections/7038406002/)

I didn't see anything in there that seemed to make it unusually difficult for people of color to cast a ballot.  But, my lens is different than some.

Perhaps this writer is biased. 

not only do I agree with you but 72% of the public does too

MLB has seriously misjudged their fan base

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 03, 2021, 11:00:49 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 03, 2021, 10:29:38 AM

since the MLB all-star game is being moved, I read this article.

https://www.onlineathens.com/story/news/state/2021/03/28/new-georgia-voting-law-what-does-sb-202-change-elections/7038406002/ (https://www.onlineathens.com/story/news/state/2021/03/28/new-georgia-voting-law-what-does-sb-202-change-elections/7038406002/)

I didn't see anything in there that seemed to make it unusually difficult for people of color to cast a ballot.  But, my lens is different than some.

Perhaps this writer is biased. 

Nah. Every journalist is impartial. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 03, 2021, 11:09:42 AM

FORE!!!!

75, sunny, light breeze

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 03, 2021, 01:22:15 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 03, 2021, 11:00:49 AM

Nah. Every journalist is impartial.

Though oddly, the one the wrote the linked article was about as "just the facts ma'am" as you'll get. Well, just the wording of the bill, anyway. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 03, 2021, 01:25:31 PM

Feeling productive. Knocked out my taxes. I always find it interesting seeing how different employers deal with their baseline withholdings. Some set for  a bigger one. Some minimize federal, some try to equal out federal and state, which I find interesting. I also learned there was some kind of refund I could get if I religiously tracked vehicle usage. That was odd. 

Granted, I have some modest dividend income, so that means a small federal refund becomes a small bit I owe. Next year is going to be a hot, hot mess for me when it comes to taxes because of some IC work and a snafu with a retirement thing. Oh well. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 03, 2021, 02:12:20 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 03, 2021, 10:50:42 AM

not only do I agree with you but 72% of the public does too

MLB has seriously misjudged their fan base

Maybe they just wanted to do what they thought was right?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 03, 2021, 02:12:59 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 03, 2021, 09:51:15 AM

Fan Death

There is a common belief in South Korea that falling asleep in a closed room with an electric fan running can lead to death. Cases of suspected fan death are sometimes reported by the media, and new fans are equipped with automatic timers as a precaution. Though fan death is technically possible, as the use of a fan can hasten dehydration and thus lead to heat exhaustion, the more popular ideas about how fans might kill people have all been debunked by science.

https://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Fan+death (https://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Fan+death)

A)  why bother with science now?
B)  if this was the case, I'd die every night

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 03, 2021, 02:13:34 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 03, 2021, 10:29:38 AM

since the MLB all-star game is being moved, I read this article.

https://www.onlineathens.com/story/news/state/2021/03/28/new-georgia-voting-law-what-does-sb-202-change-elections/7038406002/ (https://www.onlineathens.com/story/news/state/2021/03/28/new-georgia-voting-law-what-does-sb-202-change-elections/7038406002/)

I didn't see anything in there that seemed to make it unusually difficult for people of color to cast a ballot.  But, my lens is different than some.

Perhaps this writer is biased. 

Hmm, then I wonder why they bothered with the bill in the first place?  Who might it affect?  Seriously question.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 03, 2021, 03:48:50 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 03, 2021, 02:13:34 PM

Hmm, then I wonder why they bothered with the bill in the first place?  Who might it affect?  Seriously question.

It affects only those voting who arent who they pretend to be

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 03, 2021, 03:51:22 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 03, 2021, 02:12:20 PM

Maybe they just wanted to do what they thought was right? 

The MLB is doing a booming business with China and boycotting an American city

They should not be mixed up in politics and they will learn this the hard way

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 03, 2021, 03:52:21 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 03, 2021, 03:48:50 PM

It affects only those voting who arent who they pretend to be

It gives the government some leeway to throw out the vote if the people get it wrong

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 03, 2021, 03:57:33 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 03, 2021, 03:52:21 PM

It gives the government some leeway to throw out the vote if the people get it wrong

all votes that are not from a real live eligible voters should be thrown out

without this law it gives either side the ability to commit massive fraud

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 03, 2021, 06:19:26 PM

The massive fraud........that has yet to happen.  Domestically, anyway.  
Open your eyes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 04, 2021, 09:14:09 AM

whether there was massive fraud or not isn't the issue here

the reason for the changes is to gain the people's trust that there won't be massive fraud in the future

some folks obviously thought there was some fraud going on in the last election maybe a few elections before the last one

assure the people that the next election isn't rigged

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 04, 2021, 09:40:07 AM

I went to the bank the other day. I had to show my ID.

I went to get a vaccine. I had to show my ID.

I had some surgery the other day. I had to show my ID.

I rented a car last week. I had to show my ID. 

I'm going to get to the airport soon. I will have to show my ID. 17 times.



Why on earth would showing ID NOT be required in order to f'ing VOTE?!?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 04, 2021, 10:34:51 AM

Easter plans?

Having my FIL and step-MIL over, and we have the kids this weekend. Doing roasted leg of lamb with root vegetables and mashed potatoes. I think my wife is cooking a lemon bundt cake as well.

My arm after the shot isn't very sore, so thinking I'll hit the range with the kid at some point today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 04, 2021, 10:42:43 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 04, 2021, 09:40:07 AM

I'm going to get to the airport soon. I will have to show my ID. 17 times.



Why on earth would showing ID NOT be required in order to f'ing VOTE?!?

What airports are you going to? I fly a semi-regularly and I’m pretty sure they see my ID once. Flying to China or something?

I don’t particularly mind the idea of simply having to possess an ID when you vote. That seems fine. I do worry about it potentially being used to leverage someone in a bad spot. Historically when the right to vote was denied, it was done using mundane sounding tools.

Not that I’m necessarily saying that is the case here. I am of a split mind about it. I think a lot of the criticism is overheated. But I also think it is being done with a not particularly good justification I would not doubt the potential for nefariousness.

Wisconsin actually had an interesting example of this nefarious approach. They passed a voter ID law a few years back, and it said that a student ID could count. That makes sense. But they installed a few random qualifications, namely that the ID had a signature and that it has to expire in a term of two years or less (both these things are silly). It disqualified a large number of IDs from University of Wisconsin Schools, including Madison. Alas, the devil is in the details when it comes to underhandedness.

In the end, we will just have to see how it plays out. (I also saw Cobb county pushed their economic impact bit, which are always comically overheated)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 04, 2021, 10:44:20 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 04, 2021, 10:34:51 AM

Easter plans?

Having my FIL and step-MIL over, and we have the kids this weekend. Doing roasted leg of lamb with root vegetables and mashed potatoes. I think my wife is cooking a lemon bundt cake as well.

My arm after the shot isn't very sore, so thinking I'll hit the range with the kid at some point today.

I am finishing a halfhearted attempt to follow the date hair rules of Passover, and let me say,l, that description is making me incredibly hungry. I suppose a meal itself actually would pass the test of the restrictions. But not the Bundt cake

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 04, 2021, 11:21:55 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 04, 2021, 10:42:43 AM

What airports are you going to? I fly a semi-regularly and I’m pretty sure they see my ID once. Flying to China or something?

I don’t particularly mind the idea of simply having to possess an ID when you vote. That seems fine. I do worry about it potentially being used to leverage someone in a bad spot. Historically when the right to vote was denied, it was done using mundane sounding tools.

Not that I’m necessarily saying that is the case here. I am of a split mind about it. I think a lot of the criticism is overheated. But I also think it is being done with a not particularly good justification I would not doubt the potential for nefariousness.

Wisconsin actually had an interesting example of this nefarious approach. They passed a voter ID law a few years back, and it said that a student ID could count. That makes sense. But they installed a few random qualifications, namely that the ID had a signature and that it has to expire in a term of two years or less (both these things are silly). It disqualified a large number of IDs from University of Wisconsin Schools, including Madison. Alas, the devil is in the details when it comes to underhandedness.

In the end, we will just have to see how it plays out. (I also saw Cobb county pushed their economic impact bit, which are always comically overheated)

dont they issue student IDs to non citizens and out of state folks

not sure a student ID is good enough

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 04, 2021, 11:28:19 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/DlJrMqh.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 04, 2021, 11:28:43 AM

Just got it looks good

(https://i.imgur.com/wlfLD0C.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 04, 2021, 12:02:20 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 04, 2021, 11:21:55 AM

dont they issue student IDs to non citizens and out of state folks

not sure a student ID is good enough

I mean, IDs are to ID you. The ID isn't what lets you vote.

Also, out-of-state students can vote in elections in the states in which they live. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 04, 2021, 12:02:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 04, 2021, 11:28:19 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/DlJrMqh.png)

Awesome! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 04, 2021, 12:09:37 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 04, 2021, 12:02:20 PM

I mean, IDs are to ID you. The ID isn't what lets you vote.

Also, out-of-state students can vote in elections in the states in which they live.

If they are registered in the state where they go to school then yes they can vote

The key here is not to only ID but to also verify they are registered

as long as that happens then no problem

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 04, 2021, 01:24:00 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 04, 2021, 09:40:07 AM

I went to the bank the other day. I had to show my ID.

I went to get a vaccine. I had to show my ID.

I had some surgery the other day. I had to show my ID.

I rented a car last week. I had to show my ID.

I'm going to get to the airport soon. I will have to show my ID. 17 times.



Why on earth would showing ID NOT be required in order to f'ing VOTE?!?

Compared to many, you live a very privileged life.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 04, 2021, 02:28:03 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 04, 2021, 09:40:07 AM

I went to the bank the other day. I had to show my ID.

I went to get a vaccine. I had to show my ID.

I had some surgery the other day. I had to show my ID.

I rented a car last week. I had to show my ID.

I'm going to get to the airport soon. I will have to show my ID. 17 times.

Why on earth would showing ID NOT be required in order to f'ing VOTE?!?

I don't think there is any provision in Georgia's new law about showing ID to people. They were already required to show ID. The ID requirement they added is now on absentee ballots.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 04, 2021, 02:54:48 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 04, 2021, 02:28:03 PM

I don't think there is any provision in Georgia's new law about showing ID to people. They were already required to show ID. The ID requirement they added is now on absentee ballots.

Under the new law an absentee voter will still put their name but also an ID # from a Drivers License or state issued ID or a cope of their their voter ID

This will cut down on ballot harvesting and help verify identity of a registered voter

Not sure why this is considered voter suppression 

The law reads:

The actual absentee ballot and envelopes will look different, as well. SB 202 requires absentee ballots to be printed on special security paper, and your precinct name will now be included along with precinct ID printed at the top. Once you fill out your choices by filling in the circles for your choices, you will place it in an envelope that will have your name, signature, driver's license or state ID number (or last four digits of your Social Security number) and date of birth. The envelope will be designed so that sensitive personal information will be hidden once it is sealed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 04, 2021, 03:01:46 PM

Sometimes, rule changes may increase confidence in an election process without really doing that much of substance for election security.  It's a tradeoff.  We already require ID to vote in person, now it's required to request an absentee ballot.  It's not some sea change, but if you need ID for one, why not the other?

Probably too much is being made of this for partisan reasons on both sides ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 04, 2021, 03:05:09 PM

Ummm....WTF...?

https://twitter.com/HollyAnderson/status/1378726835735965696?s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 04, 2021, 04:12:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 04, 2021, 03:01:46 PM

Sometimes, rule changes may increase confidence in an election process without really doing that much of substance for election security.  It's a tradeoff.  We already require ID to vote in person, now it's required to request an absentee ballot.  It's not some sea change, but if you need ID for one, why not the other?

Probably too much is being made of this for partisan reasons on both sides ...

The main issue is Trump just tried to steal tune election and this law certainly appears aimed at making that easier

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 04, 2021, 04:45:01 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 04, 2021, 03:01:46 PM

Sometimes, rule changes may increase confidence in an election process without really doing that much of substance for election security.  It's a tradeoff.  We already require ID to vote in person, now it's required to request an absentee ballot.  It's not some sea change, but if you need ID for one, why not the other?

Probably too much is being made of this for partisan reasons on both sides ...

I saw an interesting twitter thread about some of the ups and downs of all this. It's probably being done for a less than savory reason. But also in Ga., a bunch of expansions to the franchise were an emphasis from the party in power because they felt at the time it helped their chances like five years ago (and now they are much more gun shy as the other side had grown better at using them). 

There's also the challenge of balancing things, privacy, access, questions of security. I once voted absentee because I'd just moved and they wouldn't be able to get me some paperwork in time. There was an element of the honor system there. I had a pay stub with an address I gave my employer. Faking something like that wouldn't be super hard. So with a tightly controlled approach, I shouldn't vote at all because I took a new job in a different state in late September. It's an interesting question with both power, but more than that, a massive amount of people's emotional capital seeming to ride on such things. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 04, 2021, 05:28:05 PM

When you back up the invented problem with a legislative "fix", it gives the invented problem a semblance of being real.  Period.

Yet another disgusting display by a particular party, with the backers of that party shrugging and asking "what's the harm?"  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 04, 2021, 05:35:15 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 04, 2021, 05:28:05 PM

When you back up the invented problem with a legislative "fix", it gives the invented problem a semblance of being real.  Period.

Yet another disgusting display by a particular party, with the backers of that party shrugging and asking "what's the harm?" 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74kOgbPQ7LI&list=PL8ev3X5tHcOYjrhBQp2Hf7UoC7G0W1zEb

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 04, 2021, 05:44:20 PM

^
this is your go-to.....don't debate the precise, valid point I made.  Just avoid it with crap.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 04, 2021, 06:04:10 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 04, 2021, 05:28:05 PM

When you back up the invented problem with a legislative "fix", it gives the invented problem a semblance of being real.  Period.

Yet another disgusting display by a particular party, with the backers of that party shrugging and asking "what's the harm?" 

A perception exists among SOME that the election laws here were inadequate to ensure less fraud.  The new bill was meant to address that impression, while doing relatively little in real terms.  A LOT of legislation is largely imagery, and this is no exception.  Imagery, on BOTH sides, folks calling it "Jim Crowe" are just are wrong as folks who claimed there was wide spread fraud in Georgia this past election.

Imagery, a LOT of politics is imagery.  And this bill did almost nothing to limit voting rights.  Disgusting display?  That's an opinion.  To me, it's close to a nothing, it did clean up some vague rules in the previous wording, to the extent it was needed, like "work hours" now meaning 9-to-5 for early voting.

The actual restrictions here are far less than many other states have like NY and DE.

A good habit is to look past all the imagery and spin and seek what actually happened and why.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 04, 2021, 06:14:51 PM

I know, I know....anyone against the thing is brainwashed and just being against it because they're told to.   

Guys, all of your radical, left-winger boogeymen aren't lefties, they're moderates.  And it's why the Republicans are acting like a wounded animal in a corner.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 04, 2021, 06:48:07 PM

The actual substance of this new law is pretty moderate and changes relatively little.

Voting laws here remain more liberal and open than in many other states.  We retained "no excuse absentee voting".  Check how many other states allow that.

The angst is misplaced, and the spin is epic, which is par for the diamond.

If someone voiced an actual substantive objection to a specific that would be nice, instead of generalities which often are simply incorrect.

And of course, at least SOME of the "left wingers" really are quite a bit Left of the mainstream in the country.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 04, 2021, 06:59:18 PM

Whats interesting is that MLB wants to move the all star game to New York which has stricter voting laws then the new Georgia law

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 04, 2021, 09:00:29 PM

because MLB has no clue

watching the Halos and Sox

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 04, 2021, 09:06:20 PM

@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) 

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-0/p526x296/168023611_4022517731144384_5533046257603310396_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=XlpjaK4uBQEAX81WeD6&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=eec88eb115a3b067677c3da6af1297ce&oe=608F43B8)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 04, 2021, 09:11:33 PM

Future MrsNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17)?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 04, 2021, 09:58:48 PM

i just sold my boat... on FB marketplace of all places... but because of which, in behavior appropriate for FB's reputation, i'm now being bombarded with boat adverts...

and then this once crossed my feed- and i'll be damned if i don't want to go check this boat out.  i need to look real close at it...

don't y'all agree?

(yes, i saved the picture yes i did- and hung it here too just in case i lose it, yup!)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 04, 2021, 10:15:29 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 04, 2021, 09:11:33 PM

Future MrsNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17)?

She'd slap you for even suggesting that and I don't think photo shop could gussie up my photo enough to fetch her interest.Fairly certain Cindy wouldn't appreciate that arrangement either.But it appears Fearless has landed in a new watering hole,he certainly found the Ladies Tee

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 04, 2021, 10:18:12 PM

boat-gal.jpg

nice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 04, 2021, 10:18:56 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 04, 2021, 09:58:48 PM

(yes, i saved the picture yes i did- and hung it here too just in case i lose it, yup!)


(https://i.imgur.com/416swvR.png)

Good to see she's wearing those floatation devices

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 04, 2021, 11:11:16 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 04, 2021, 09:58:48 PM

i just sold my boat... on FB marketplace of all places... but because of which, in behavior appropriate for FB's reputation, i'm now being bombarded with boat adverts...

and then this once crossed my feed- and i'll be damned if i don't want to go check this boat out.  i need to look real close at it...

don't y'all agree?

(yes, i saved the picture yes i did- and hung it here too just in case i lose it, yup!)

I'm about to sell mine, I'll list on Craigslist and Nextdoor but my buddy who buys and sells such toys all the time, tells me FB marketplace is gonna be the winner.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 04, 2021, 11:16:30 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 04, 2021, 09:06:20 PM

@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17)

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-0/p526x296/168023611_4022517731144384_5533046257603310396_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=XlpjaK4uBQEAX81WeD6&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=eec88eb115a3b067677c3da6af1297ce&oe=608F43B8)

Are you at a bar or a dairy?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 04, 2021, 11:31:23 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 04, 2021, 11:11:16 PM

I'm about to sell mine, I'll list on Craigslist and Nextdoor but my buddy who buys and sells such toys all the time, tells me FB marketplace is gonna be the winner.

i'm amazed at the effectiveness of FB marketplace.  and if you give it a modest boost? you'll be bombarded. 

i sold my 89 f150 within 4 hours of listing it last year... i literally had three people standing in front of me bidding against each other- I sold it to the first person that offered asking price which really tweaked the guys going over asking.... i've never been in such a position before.

the first time i listed the boat i had 6 people look at it and 4 offers- i thought i had snapped a shift cable last season at the end of the season... had to be towed in- only time the boat let me down... had one in box and offered it to the guy who brought me the check, and offered to put it on with him helping... turns out it wasn't the cable... at all... the horizontal shaft pinion was smooth as glass and the vertical shaft ring was literally nowhere to be found.  the lower half didn't have even a shimmer of metal in it- as the gears in the top part had disintegrated into chunks too big to fit through the oil passages...

that's what i get for shoving 325 ponies through an outdrive designed for no more than 300 too long. 

he didn't take it, and i get it.. so i ordered and installed a new outdrive by the next week and relisted it... it was a tuesday when that happened.... this time, i didn't get a single message or call until friday which worried me... then, three people on saturday and a couple handed me a wad of cash adding up to asking price... poof... made me plenty happy. 

i also sell the things you're now seeing in the sidebar on marketplace.. it outperforms etsy, my own page, pinterest and spotify by a wide margin... to the point i don't even mess with spotify or pinterest anymore.... and etsy is about to get cut...

and another quick thing: a broker called wanting to sell the boat for a fee... local guy... he didn't know that i already knew of him, and i've nothing against him at all- but i happened to know his success was due to (drum roll) "marketplace".  no kidding. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 05, 2021, 06:20:47 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 04, 2021, 01:24:00 PM

Compared to many, you live a very privileged life.

You shouldn't be surprised. It's the result of having a plan and hard work.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2021, 07:58:06 AM

What I see, often, is some political "leader" will make a gross mischaracterization of some issue and their "followers" adopt it without question or research.

This is true across the board.  Reality, which is actually important I think, very often is more complex and nuanced and "in the middle", to me, and these partisan opinions about whatever are, well, predictable and abusive of the process.  Few take the time to do any research into a political topic it seems to me.

Folks decide on a topic like say climate change PURELY on their politics.  Reality there is far more complex and nuanced than just R and L.

I am on FB with a fair number of ardent Trump supporters and some of them went from the vaccine being the greatest thing ever to now claiming they want nothing to do with it.  wut?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2021, 09:47:00 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2021, 07:58:06 AM

What I see, often, is some political "leader" will make a gross mischaracterization of some issue and their "followers" adopt it without question or research.

This is true across the board.  Reality, which is actually important I think, very often is more complex and nuanced and "in the middle", to me, and these partisan opinions about whatever are, well, predictable and abusive of the process.  Few take the time to do any research into a political topic it seems to me.

Folks decide on a topic like say climate change PURELY on their politics.  Reality there is far more complex and nuanced than just R and L.

I am on FB with a fair number of ardent Trump supporters and some of them went from the vaccine being the greatest thing ever to now claiming they want nothing to do with it.  wut?

this rambled a little bit 

your first sentence and your last sentence dont match up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2021, 09:48:53 AM

What I see, often, is some political "leader" will make a gross mischaracterization of some issue and their "followers" adopt it without question or research.

I am on FB with a fair number of ardent Trump supporters and some of them went from the vaccine being the greatest thing ever to now claiming they want nothing to do with it.  wut?


Sure they do, an example of how politics shape opinions about a topic.  When Trump was President, vaccine was great, not the same vaccine is terrible and they don't want it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2021, 09:57:01 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2021, 09:48:53 AM

What I see, often, is some political "leader" will make a gross mischaracterization of some issue and their "followers" adopt it without question or research.

I am on FB with a fair number of ardent Trump supporters and some of them went from the vaccine being the greatest thing ever to now claiming they want nothing to do with it.  wut?


Sure they do, an example of how politics shape opinions about a topic.  When Trump was President, vaccine was great, not the same vaccine is terrible and they don't want it.

oh you were saying Trump supporters changed their mind because of a different President

but since Trump is still for the vaccine this still doesnt compute

but thats ok CD Im a Trump supporter and I change my mind all the time

its called being open minded

course I still havent changed my mind about those craze assed dems they be nuts

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2021, 10:04:25 AM

It was three individuals who changed their attitudes on the vaccine 180° once Joe was President.

It wasn't based on anything else.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2021, 10:07:00 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2021, 10:04:25 AM

It was three individuals who changed their attitudes on the vaccine 180° once Joe was President.

It wasn't based on anything else. 

come on man

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 05, 2021, 10:09:10 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2021, 09:48:53 AM

What I see, often, is some political "leader" will make a gross mischaracterization of some issue and their "followers" adopt it without question or research.

I am on FB with a fair number of ardent Trump supporters and some of them went from the vaccine being the greatest thing ever to now claiming they want nothing to do with it.  wut?


Sure they do, an example of how politics shape opinions about a topic.  When Trump was President, vaccine was great, not the same vaccine is terrible and they don't want it.

While I cannot speak for all Trump supporters, for the issue of the vaccine and it's availability are two different things.

First, I believe that Trump and those in his administration, did a great job of clearing hurdles to allow companies to get this vaccine developed and distributed. If Trump had not done this, this vaccine would not be anywhere near ready to go by now. That is in stark contrast to how the left wing characterized Trumps efforts regarding Covid. 

As for the vaccine itself, I am still not sold that it is something that I am willing to inject into my body, regardless of who advocated for it or made it possible. I applaud Trump and his administration for getting it to market, but I still am leery that it has been properly tested. If someone wants to get it, go for it. I wish them well and hope it works for them. But I would like to learn a bit more about it before I submit to it. 

As I have been in direct contact with many people that had Covid at the time I was with them, I am certain that I have been more than exposed to the virus. I don't know that I have been infected, but if not, I must have a natural immunity to it. That gives me yet another reason not to get the vaccine at this point and allow others that may be more at risk, to take it in my place. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 05, 2021, 10:18:59 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 05, 2021, 10:09:10 AM

As for the vaccine itself, I am still not sold that it is something that I am willing to inject into my body, regardless of who advocated for it or made it possible.

I guess there about a dozen of us in the state who haven't got it yet.Isn't your daughter a nurse?If so what does she suggest.My one brother got his last shot Saturday and said it effects his hands real bad.Another brother and his wife had both shots and said it's uncomfotable but they recommended it.Now he said the moderna vaccine may be good for 6 months only.So I'll wait until the sites thin out a little then go in - probably

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2021, 10:26:21 AM

I tried to read as much as I could about the vaccine and its safety, and concluded for my part the technology is impressive and unlikely to cause undue side effects beyond the obvious.  I am hopeful this approach can be used more broadly than for just COVID.

I think the safety testing was more than adequate in my view.  It wasn't rushed, more like prioritized over other treatments for other illnesses.

I don't think it  likely the mRNA approach could really do much counter to our health.  Nearly all of us have had many other vaccines in our lives that were more likely to generate side effects, in my view.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 05, 2021, 10:32:12 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2021, 10:26:21 AM

I tried to read as much as I could about the vaccine and its safety, and concluded for my part the technology is impressive and unlikely to cause undue side effects beyond the obvious.  I am hopeful this approach can be used more broadly than for just COVID.

I think the safety testing was more than adequate in my view.  It wasn't rushed, more like prioritized over other treatments for other illnesses.

I don't think it  likely the mRNA approach could really do much counter to our health.  Nearly all of us have had many other vaccines in our lives that were more likely to generate side effects, in my view.

This is the same with me. Next shot in two weeks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 05, 2021, 10:34:36 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 05, 2021, 10:09:10 AM

While I cannot speak for all Trump supporters, for the issue of the vaccine and it's availability are two different things.

First, I believe that Trump and those in his administration, did a great job of clearing hurdles to allow companies to get this vaccine developed and distributed. If Trump had not done this, this vaccine would not be anywhere near ready to go by now. That is in stark contrast to how the left wing characterized Trumps efforts regarding Covid.

I feel like this somewhat proves CD's point...

Trump has spent plenty of time claiming that there's no way we'd have a vaccine within 5 years without him. Says it over, and over, and over. 

China and Russia both had vaccines months before us... Granted, I don't trust either of them to have completed adequate testing, so let's look at Western nations... The UK and Canada both approved the Pfizer vaccine for use before the US did. Last time I checked, Trump has never been president of either.

Trump is claiming credit for something that literally ANYONE in the White House would have done at the time. It's literally a no-brainer. 

Yet his supporters parrot the claim that if it weren't for Trump it'd be 5 years before we'd see a vaccine. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2021, 10:40:22 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 05, 2021, 10:34:36 AM

I feel like this somewhat proves CD's point...

Trump has spent plenty of time claiming that there's no way we'd have a vaccine within 5 years without him. Says it over, and over, and over.

China and Russia both had vaccines months before us... Granted, I don't trust either of them to have completed adequate testing, so let's look at Western nations... The UK and Canada both approved the Pfizer vaccine for use before the US did. Last time I checked, Trump has never been president of either.

Trump is claiming credit for something that literally ANYONE in the White House would have done at the time. It's literally a no-brainer.

Yet his supporters parrot the claim that if it weren't for Trump it'd be 5 years before we'd see a vaccine.

so what youre saying is a politician claimed credit when non was due

man Im sure glad the potted plant we have in the WH now doesnt ever do that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2021, 10:43:49 AM

It's a lot tougher, I think, to come to independent opinions on matters, and easier to just parrot whatever your "leader" says about a thing.

Climate Change opinions are excellent examples of this.  If any of us try to read even the technical summaries, it rapidly gets confusing, in my view.  It takes a lot of work, and that's one issue, and the effort might well leave you simply uncertain about the threat of it, and what is to be done about it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2021, 11:14:32 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 05, 2021, 06:20:47 AM

You shouldn't be surprised. It's the result of having a plan and hard work.

What base were you born on?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 05, 2021, 11:23:06 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2021, 11:14:32 AM

What base were you born on?

I'm a first generation college graduate. My family had very little and we lived in a small apartment in a crappy area of Des Plaines, Illinois after leaving the city when I was about 5.

Why do you ask?

I guess my answer would be the on-deck circle, getting ready to take my swings.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2021, 11:37:03 AM

We were firmly middle class, no luxuries, modest cars, a decent house, my parents both went to college and graduated.  It was expected.

My Dad wanted me to be an MD but somehow failed to inform me of that wish, my sister told me much later.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2021, 11:38:30 AM

I had a lunch table conversation once about what kind of car you'd get for your son if you had serious money, Bill Gates in effect.

My answer at the time was a Chevy Suburban Diesel.  A few said he'd have to work for it.

Maybe so, the life of the really wealthy has troubles too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2021, 11:40:47 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 05, 2021, 11:23:06 AM

I'm a first generation college graduate. My family had very little and we lived in a small apartment in a crappy area of Des Plaines, Illinois after leaving the city when I was about 5.

Why do you ask?

I guess my answer would be the on-deck circle, getting ready to take my swings.

Hmm, all of your description centers on economics.  Weird.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2021, 11:42:04 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2021, 11:38:30 AM

I had a lunch table conversation once about what kind of car you'd get for your son if you had serious money, Bill Gates in effect.

My answer at the time was a Chevy Suburban Diesel.  A few said he'd have to work for it.

Maybe so, the life of the really wealthy has troubles too.

An old mini-van, lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 05, 2021, 12:02:08 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2021, 11:40:47 AM

Hmm, all of your description centers on economics.  Weird.

How do you get that from my post?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 05, 2021, 12:05:44 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 05, 2021, 10:40:22 AM

so what youre saying is a politician claimed credit when non was due

man Im sure glad the potted plant we have in the WH now doesnt ever do that

It goes a step farther than claiming credit where none was due... "Without me, you wouldn't have had this for 5 years." That's the second half. 

Which is what NOB echoes:

Quote

If Trump had not done this, this vaccine would not be anywhere near ready to go by now.

Trump repeated that line so many times, without any evidence. But any rational observer would realize that given this pandemic, any President would have fast-tracked a vaccine and cleared any administrative hurdles in its path to get the country through it.

Even Jimmy Carter and the potted plant would do the same. How to handle that portion of the response to COVID is obvious.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on April 05, 2021, 12:07:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2021, 10:43:49 AM

It's a lot tougher, I think, to come to independent opinions on matters, and easier to just parrot whatever your "leader" says about a thing.

Climate Change opinions are excellent examples of this.  If any of us try to read even the technical summaries, it rapidly gets confusing, in my view.  It takes a lot of work, and that's one issue, and the effort might well leave you simply uncertain about the threat of it, and what is to be done about it.

This is an excellent point that can be applied in A LOT of different ways. Take theology, for example; I became fed up with whose interpretation was "right" or "better" or more "scripturally accurate." At some point, rather than hearing another back and forth about Infant Baptism, you realize that God gave us a brain and He's entertained with our diversity of good faith Biblical interpretations.

Realizing this while bogged down in theology gave me a whole new approach with which to view the world. The difference with science is we're so easily lead to believe that because science has in the past lead to concrete knowns, such as the Law of Gravity, then anything that comes under the lens of science is likewise afforded status as unchallengeable known. Thus a diet of dubious application gets a pass because of its "science," which merely means there's some sort of scientific logic to falling within the open definition of what a diet even is.

And yes, the open-ended science of Climate Change is such an all or nothing ordeal, most give up and side with their leader.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 05, 2021, 12:17:22 PM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on April 05, 2021, 12:07:57 PM

This is an excellent point that can be applied in A LOT of different ways. Take theology, for example; I became fed up with whose interpretation was "right" or "better" or more "scripturally accurate." At some point, rather than hearing another back and forth about Infant Baptism, you realize that God gave us a brain and He's entertained with our diversity of good faith Biblical interpretations.

Realizing this while bogged down in theology gave me a whole new approach with which to view the world. The difference with science is we're so easily lead to believe that because science has in the past lead to concrete knowns, such as the Law of Gravity, then anything that comes under the lens of science is likewise afforded status as unchallengeable known. Thus a diet of dubious application gets a pass because of its "science," which merely means there's some sort of scientific logic to falling within the open definition of what a diet even is.

And yes, the open-ended science of Climate Change is such an all or nothing ordeal, most give up and side with their leader.

Most people on this planet aren't capable of understanding theology or science. Most don't even want to.

They don't want to find the answer.

They want to be told the answer. 

And if the answer isn't what they want to hear, they'll go to someone who tells them a different answer. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2021, 12:20:38 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 05, 2021, 12:05:44 PM

It goes a step farther than claiming credit where none was due... "Without me, you wouldn't have had this for 5 years." That's the second half.

Which is what NOB echoes:



Trump repeated that line so many times, without any evidence. But any rational observer would realize that given this pandemic, any President would have fast-tracked a vaccine and cleared any administrative hurdles in its path to get the country through it.

Even Jimmy Carter and the potted plant would do the same. How to handle that portion of the response to COVID is obvious. 

Yep just like Obama did with swine flu

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 05, 2021, 12:26:54 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 05, 2021, 12:05:44 PM

Trump repeated that line so many times, without any evidence. But any rational observer would realize that given this pandemic, any President would have fast-tracked a vaccine and cleared any administrative hurdles in its path to get the country through it.

Even Jimmy Carter and the potted plant would do the same. How to handle that portion of the response to COVID is obvious. 

I can't agree with this statement.  I believe that any president would have TRIED, but any other president would have faced a different set of political pressures and obstacles to push it through, even if the bureaucratic hurdles remained constant.

So, we can speculate all we want, but all we can KNOW is that the actual president at the time, pushed it through.  Anyone else would likely have tried, but we have no way to know whether or not he would have been successful.

If nothing else, we know that our previous president was fairly effective at bulldozing over opposition.  I don't believe we can assume that ANY other president would have been able to do the same.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 05, 2021, 12:29:13 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 05, 2021, 12:20:38 PM

Yep just like Obama did with swine flu

Swine flu was nowhere near as deadly. If it was, the response would have been different. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 05, 2021, 12:33:55 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 05, 2021, 10:34:36 AM

I feel like this somewhat proves CD's point...

Trump has spent plenty of time claiming that there's no way we'd have a vaccine within 5 years without him. Says it over, and over, and over.

China and Russia both had vaccines months before us... Granted, I don't trust either of them to have completed adequate testing, so let's look at Western nations... The UK and Canada both approved the Pfizer vaccine for use before the US did. Last time I checked, Trump has never been president of either.

Trump is claiming credit for something that literally ANYONE in the White House would have done at the time. It's literally a no-brainer.

Yet his supporters parrot the claim that if it weren't for Trump it'd be 5 years before we'd see a vaccine.

What was the shortest period of time that a vaccine or even a drug came to market prior to the Covid vaccine? And I'm not talking about in foreign nations, but here in the United States? 

Look, I don't think Trump did anything that others couldn't have, all he did was help to clear roadblocks. If you believe differently, so be it. But until someone can show me where it has been done in a shorter period of time, and I don't mean something in the 1700 - 1800's prior to the regulatory state, I will contend that Trump did what something that prior admins had failed to do. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 05, 2021, 12:36:01 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 05, 2021, 12:29:13 PM

Swine flu was nowhere near as deadly. If it was, the response would have been different.

bull spit.  it just wasn't politically advantageous to ride into the stupidity we find ourselves surrounded by now.  it was better to ignore it, largely and from a political posture, and that is precisely what 'they' did.   procedures were followed as identified by the national pandemic response plan and measures were taken that were effective.  with COVID19, instead, FEAR was sewn purposely and it caught on like wildfire- for political leverage.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 05, 2021, 12:36:33 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2021, 11:40:47 AM

Hmm, all of your description centers on economics.  Weird.

Your first post implied economics. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2021, 12:38:53 PM

Usually, when asked "what base were you born on?", it means economics, in my experience.

If you were born on second base, it meant your family was reasonably well to do.

I'm not sure how else to interpret it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 05, 2021, 12:40:24 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 05, 2021, 12:05:44 PM

It goes a step farther than claiming credit where none was due... "Without me, you wouldn't have had this for 5 years." That's the second half.

Which is what NOB echoes:



Trump repeated that line so many times, without any evidence. But any rational observer would realize that given this pandemic, any President would have fast-tracked a vaccine and cleared any administrative hurdles in its path to get the country through it.

Even Jimmy Carter and the potted plant would do the same. How to handle that portion of the response to COVID is obvious. 

I probably did not phrase that correctly. Without intervention of the regulatory process, the vaccine would still be a ways off. Trump took the lead to intervene in that process. I'm not saying any other president would not have, but the left had been accusing Trump of not taking Covid seriously all the while waiting on a vaccine that he and his administration were removing hurdles for. 

There are 2 houses of Congress that could have also gotten involved from their end to pass legislation to speed up the process, but they were too busy attacking Trump for having 2 scoops of ice cream. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 05, 2021, 12:45:27 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 05, 2021, 12:26:54 PM

I can't agree with this statement.  I believe that any president would have TRIED, but any other president would have faced a different set of political pressures and obstacles to push it through, even if the bureaucratic hurdles remained constant.

So, we can speculate all we want, but all we can KNOW is that the actual president at the time, pushed it through.  Anyone else would likely have tried, but we have no way to know whether or not he would have been successful.

If nothing else, we know that our previous president was fairly effective at bulldozing over opposition.  I don't believe we can assume that ANY other president would have been able to do the same.

I can agree here. I do believe any president would have tried.

We can't run the simulation 1000 times with 1000 different Presidents in this country. The best we can do is look at what happened across the world:

https://covid19.trackvaccines.org/trials-vaccines-by-country/

This is all I could find with a quick google search, and obviously it's updated as of early April, so I can't easily back-date it to early December when our vaccine was approved.

But we see that we are NOT the only country which was running vaccine trials. So it's not like America was going it alone, or that all the vaccine trials were under Trump's jurisdiction. 

We also know (based on my previous post) that both the UK and Canada beat us to approval of the vaccine. I'm sure both countries have political pressures and obstacles, and they got it done. I believe I read that by the end of December, 8 countries had approved vaccines for use. So that's 5 more beyond UK/USA/Canada all in a very short window.

So I stick to my original point--literally any President would have done the same thing. At most, a President more effective than Trump might have gotten us there very slightly earlier, and a President less effective than Trump might have gotten us there a few weeks later. 

NOB stated this morning that if Trump hadn't done what he did, the vaccine wouldn't be ready to go by NOW... 

I would ask if anyone on this board truly believes that? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 05, 2021, 01:10:36 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 05, 2021, 12:33:55 PM

What was the shortest period of time that a vaccine or even a drug came to market prior to the Covid vaccine? And I'm not talking about in foreign nations, but here in the United States?

Look, I don't think Trump did anything that others couldn't have, all he did was help to clear roadblocks. If you believe differently, so be it. But until someone can show me where it has been done in a shorter period of time, and I don't mean something in the 1700 - 1800's prior to the regulatory state, I will contend that Trump did what something that prior admins had failed to do.

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 05, 2021, 12:40:24 PM

I probably did not phrase that correctly. Without intervention of the regulatory process, the vaccine would still be a ways off. Trump took the lead to intervene in that process. I'm not saying any other president would not have, but the left had been accusing Trump of not taking Covid seriously all the while waiting on a vaccine that he and his administration were removing hurdles for.

There are 2 houses of Congress that could have also gotten involved from their end to pass legislation to speed up the process, but they were too busy attacking Trump for having 2 scoops of ice cream.

I understand we can't always look to "foreign nations", because the situation is different in every country. However, that's why I relied on the UK and Canada as examples, which are advanced OECD nations. And with that link of vaccine trials, you can see that most advanced nations were running trials and getting vaccines approved more quickly than ever in history. 

Because the situation, and its response, were obvious. 

And BTW the FDA is an executive branch agency. While Congress could possibly have done something, this is actually one of the few places where it was fully within the administration's purview to set priorities and do this. 

Oh, and BTW I found this...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/25/fact-check-double-standard-covid-19-h-1-n-1-inaccurate/5780274002/

H1N1 was first detected in California on April 15, 2009, and quickly spread globally, according to the CDC. (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-pandemic-timeline.html) The first infections of the novel virus were reported to the World Health Organization on April 18, three days after the first human infection.

A vaccine for the swine flu became available about five months after the first confirmed U.S. case, according to USA TODAY. (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/08/13/fact-check-swine-flu-spread-rapidly-but-not-deadly-covid-19/5577001002/) Access to the vaccine opened to the general public in late December 2009. The WHO announced  (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-pandemic-timeline.html)the end of the pandemic Aug. 11, 2010, 14 months after the first U.S. case. The national death toll (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/08/20/fact-check-covid-19-deadlier-than-1918-spanish-flu-seasonal-flu/3378208001/) reached 12,469.

So we had a vaccine for the swine flu faster than we did for COVID. Which makes sense, of course, as we already knew how to make vaccines for influenza. But you can't claim that this is the fastest vaccine ever produced...

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 05, 2021, 12:36:01 PM

bull spit.  it just wasn't politically advantageous to ride into the stupidity we find ourselves surrounded by now.  it was better to ignore it, largely and from a political posture, and that is precisely what 'they' did.  procedures were followed as identified by the national pandemic response plan and measures were taken that were effective.  with COVID19, instead, FEAR was sewn purposely and it caught on like wildfire- for political leverage. 

Worldwide, what changed politically between 2009 and 2020 to cause a different response? 

Because it's easy to claim that this was spun politicallly to damage Trump. But in 2009, NO countries locked down for swine flu, while in 2020 nearly EVERY country locked down for COVID.

We are not alone in this. We were not the first to lock down. Obviously China locked down Wuhan, but again I don't like using autocratic nations as examples. But Italy, well before the US, locked down. Then the rest of the world followed suit.

I would argue that H1N1, which was a pretty benign virus, merits a different response than COVID-19 because of its mortality rate. You are saying it's due to political advantage. Well if that's true, I would argue that you have to postulate what has changed in the past 11 years worldwide to create a political advantage to lockdowns.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 05, 2021, 01:11:33 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 05, 2021, 12:45:27 PM

I can agree here. I do believe any president would have tried.

We can't run the simulation 1000 times with 1000 different Presidents in this country. The best we can do is look at what happened across the world:

https://covid19.trackvaccines.org/trials-vaccines-by-country/

This is all I could find with a quick google search, and obviously it's updated as of early April, so I can't easily back-date it to early December when our vaccine was approved.

But we see that we are NOT the only country which was running vaccine trials. So it's not like America was going it alone, or that all the vaccine trials were under Trump's jurisdiction.

We also know (based on my previous post) that both the UK and Canada beat us to approval of the vaccine. I'm sure both countries have political pressures and obstacles, and they got it done. I believe I read that by the end of December, 8 countries had approved vaccines for use. So that's 5 more beyond UK/USA/Canada all in a very short window.

So I stick to my original point--literally any President would have done the same thing. At most, a President more effective than Trump might have gotten us there very slightly earlier, and a President less effective than Trump might have gotten us there a few weeks later.

NOB stated this morning that if Trump hadn't done what he did, the vaccine wouldn't be ready to go by NOW...

I would ask if anyone on this board truly believes that?

Europe's rollout of the Astrozeneca vaccine has been severely hindered, due to issues with the process of bringing the vaccine to market.  Among other things, it wasn't adequately vetted and socialized to make the public comfortable with it.  While not a complete failure, it's obvious their rollout has not been as successful as the USA.

As I said probably 11 months ago, "I have no doubt that China and Russia will quickly have SOME liquid to jab into people's arms."  I have been proven correct on that.  But there's no way to know if their vaccine efforts have actually been successful, and given their egregious lying about the pandemic status in their countries to date, I can't accept either of them as an example of a vaccine rollout that preceded the USA's.

So knocking out most of Europe, and China, and Russia, how many countries actually brought their vaccine to the public quicker than the USA?  I'm asking because I don't know.  You've mentioned Canada, anyone else?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 05, 2021, 01:55:13 PM

Well, I was mostly talking about approval. Rollout is a completely different issue. 

Not only that, rollout is a logistical issue that mostly occurred post-Trump. So even if he was REALLY good at it, it was mostly out of his hands by the time it actually started happening. As I remember it, he was focusing on litigating the election results most of that time... In fact, while high-profile members of the public were trying to show that they believed in the vaccine by getting publicly jabbed, he did so in secret in the White House in January. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 05, 2021, 02:22:43 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 05, 2021, 01:10:36 PM

Worldwide, what changed politically between 2009 and 2020 to cause a different response?

Because it's easy to claim that this was spun politicallly to damage Trump. But in 2009, NO countries locked down for swine flu, while in 2020 nearly EVERY country locked down for COVID.

We are not alone in this. We were not the first to lock down. Obviously China locked down Wuhan, but again I don't like using autocratic nations as examples. But Italy, well before the US, locked down. Then the rest of the world followed suit.

I would argue that H1N1, which was a pretty benign virus, merits a different response than COVID-19 because of its mortality rate. You are saying it's due to political advantage. Well if that's true, I would argue that you have to postulate what has changed in the past 11 years worldwide to create a political advantage to lockdowns.

worldwide- they were freaking out.  Just because our media didn't cover it extensively doesn't mean it didn't happen.  H1N1 and MERS are a huge concern and though MERS wasn't pandemic but more epidemic doesn't mean it wasn't a huge concern to WHO.  Here, we quietly tracked H1N1 cases using a system implemented as part of the NIMS (national incident management system) and ICS (Incident command structure) procedures to harvest data from emergency responders and hospitals 'live' databases and tracking systems, identifying and isolating as much as possible and while focusing the weight of resources and efforts at locations where it was concentrated and/or there was potential/threat of massive spread....

in short... the administration at the lowest levels handled it based on identified procedures captured during cross-decked communication including the CDC, WHO, down to the local health departments and mayors and without intervention from freaking the house and senate in an election year and with one of the most popular (and a populist) President in office.. They followed procedure.  We (average joe's) hardly noticed- but that doesn't mean there wasn't full out execution of response plans. It just means the media didn't want to impact the sitting president/messiah they so approved of.  It was actually handled correctly. 

then... after that 'success', it's followed along with a bunch of charlatans sewing fear and panic (but only after leading parades through China Town in various cities for a photo op) and the image (and image alone) that a sitting President was doing nothing.  which is bull shit.  but, 'they' painted him in a corner to where he took to the podium every single day- to the point the media began to ignore him- and he got involved, bringing deep state operatives such as fauci and scarf lady who were in stations neither of them should have been in (they were tools of the state and not of their appointed stations).  NOT ONE TIME has anyone asked Fauci "why was there no plan?"- instead, they got out in front and pretended there is no means to "know what to do when we don't know enough about it"- and that demonstrates 40 years of incompetence and begs the question "why were they getting paid?"- as it IS THEIR JOB to spitball- in the better sounding activity of 'think tank' possibilities and contingencies based on possibilities- to catalog them and store them in databases which can be referenced by interjecting queries specific to the conditions, and suitable responses immediately made available.  but... no.... they made a circus over it and for the gain of one political party- and at a moment when we damn well should have been united... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2021, 02:57:00 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2021, 12:38:53 PM

Usually, when asked "what base were you born on?", it means economics, in my experience.

If you were born on second base, it meant your family was reasonably well to do.

I'm not sure how else to interpret it.

It means everything....your whole situation.  Basically all of the things out of your control at your birth.  
I believe you when you say you're not sure how else to interpret it.  And that's too bad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2021, 03:02:32 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2021, 02:57:00 PM

It means everything....your whole situation.  Basically all of the things out of your control at your birth. 
I believe you when you say you're not sure how else to interpret it.  And that's too bad.

youre not playing the race card again are ya

Sounds like it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 05, 2021, 03:09:41 PM

I chose to take control of the situation handed to me. Wanted to be better, made it happen, and never begged for school money from anyone, let alone the government.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2021, 03:20:57 PM

What does the term 'born on third base and thought he hit a triple' mean? - Quora (https://www.quora.com/What-does-the-term-born-on-third-base-and-thought-he-hit-a-triple-mean)

Looks like a lot of folks think it means what I think it means.  The quote is not original with BS apparently.

"Some people are born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple." -Barry Switzer

Urban Dictionary: born on third base (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=born on third base)

born on third base (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=born on third base)

term coined by the great Barry Switzer (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Switzer) to describe someone who was born with a silver spoon (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=silver spoon) in their mouth but has an arrogance (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=arrogance) and thinks their standing in life is because of their own doing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 05, 2021, 03:28:57 PM

Well if Barry $wizter said it, then you know it's 100% complete bullshit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 05, 2021, 03:31:35 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 05, 2021, 02:22:43 PM

worldwide- they were freaking out.  Just because our media didn't cover it extensively doesn't mean it didn't happen.  H1N1 and MERS are a huge concern and though MERS wasn't pandemic but more epidemic doesn't mean it wasn't a huge concern to WHO.  Here, we quietly tracked H1N1 cases using a system implemented as part of the NIMS (national incident management system) and ICS (Incident command structure) procedures to harvest data from emergency responders and hospitals 'live' databases and tracking systems, identifying and isolating as much as possible and while focusing the weight of resources and efforts at locations where it was concentrated and/or there was potential/threat of massive spread....

in short... the administration at the lowest levels handled it based on identified procedures captured during cross-decked communication including the CDC, WHO, down to the local health departments and mayors and without intervention from freaking the house and senate in an election year and with one of the most popular (and a populist) President in office.. They followed procedure.  We (average joe's) hardly noticed- but that doesn't mean there wasn't full out execution of response plans. It just means the media didn't want to impact the sitting president/messiah they so approved of.  It was actually handled correctly. 

then... after that 'success', it's followed along with a bunch of charlatans sewing fear and panic (but only after leading parades through China Town in various cities for a photo op) and the image (and image alone) that a sitting President was doing nothing.  which is bull shit.  but, 'they' painted him in a corner to where he took to the podium every single day- to the point the media began to ignore him- and he got involved, bringing deep state operatives such as fauci and scarf lady who were in stations neither of them should have been in (they were tools of the state and not of their appointed stations).  NOT ONE TIME has anyone asked Fauci "why was there no plan?"- instead, they got out in front and pretended there is no means to "know what to do when we don't know enough about it"- and that demonstrates 40 years of incompetence and begs the question "why were they getting paid?"- as it IS THEIR JOB to spitball- in the better sounding activity of 'think tank' possibilities and contingencies based on possibilities- to catalog them and store them in databases which can be referenced by interjecting queries specific to the conditions, and suitable responses immediately made available.  but... no.... they made a circus over it and for the gain of one political party- and at a moment when we damn well should have been united... 

Ahh, so you're only referring to the media coverage of this, not the actual government response?

I'm saying we didn't have lockdowns, or Operation Warp Speed, or any of those actual changes to government policy because this was a much more dangerous virus/disease than H1N1. 

I'm not talking about assigning blame, or how the media covered things, or whether there was political advantage for how this virus/disease was "spun". 

H1N1 was a mouse. This thing is an elephant.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2021, 03:46:52 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 05, 2021, 03:28:57 PM

Well if Barry $wizter said it, then you know it's 100% complete bullshit.

The Bootlegger's Boy wasn't born on 3rd base

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 05, 2021, 03:48:21 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 05, 2021, 03:31:35 PM

Ahh, so you're only referring to the media coverage of this, not the actual government response?

I'm saying we didn't have lockdowns, or Operation Warp Speed, or any of those actual changes to government policy because this was a much more dangerous virus/disease than H1N1.

I'm not talking about assigning blame, or how the media covered things, or whether there was political advantage for how this virus/disease was "spun".

H1N1 was a mouse. This thing is an elephant.

More like a cat. 

Elephants are afraid of mice anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 05, 2021, 03:52:16 PM

I'm saying it was ALL mishandled, and on the heels of a circumstance that was NOT mishandled.  I'm asking "why is that?"...

I'm opining that it was seized by media and the democrats, who are one and the same, and weaponized in effort to eliminate a political enemy.  I'm saying that media and politicians stayed clear of H1N1 and allowed policies and procedures to deploy and operate without meddling for 'optics'... I'm saying that Fauci and Birch were exposed as charlatans to anyone paying attention and were rolled out and fought over by both sides as political pawns.  I'm saying the lessons learned from H1N1 were completely lost when addressing COVID19.  I'm calling it plainly- a political operation. 

Spanish flue impacted 3% of the global population.  The flu of 1968 has a harsh one.  2009/10 H1N1 impacted .03% of the population, and killed more than people realize.  COVID19 is not something to trifle with, however, and especially in the beginning there was knee jerk reactions taking place... why? because it was man made and 'novel'- people were unequipped to combat it.  Other than 'that' little bit of it (not little at all) it is no more threatening than H1N1- the infection rate is/was higher because of that.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 05, 2021, 04:11:44 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 05, 2021, 03:46:52 PM

The Bootlegger's Boy wasn't born on 3rd base

That's just because his family had already stolen it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 05, 2021, 04:17:16 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 05, 2021, 01:55:13 PM

Well, I was mostly talking about approval. Rollout is a completely different issue.

Not only that, rollout is a logistical issue that mostly occurred post-Trump. So even if he was REALLY good at it, it was mostly out of his hands by the time it actually started happening. As I remember it, he was focusing on litigating the election results most of that time... In fact, while high-profile members of the public were trying to show that they believed in the vaccine by getting publicly jabbed, he did so in secret in the White House in January.

The initial rollouts came as the next steps in the process after the approvals.  They're all connected. The first doses were administered in the USA by mid-December and at that point tens of millions of doses were already in the manufacturing process.  If you're saying those had nothing to do with the sitting president at the time, well that's certainly a thing you could say.  If you're saying tens of millions of doses were NOT in manufacturing WIP until January 20th, well that's something else.

The USA handled all of that pretty well.  While Europe has faltered pretty badly.  There's no realistic way to view it any differently than that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2021, 04:26:45 PM

The 1918-1919 flu infected an estimated 30% of the world's population, and killed about ten percent of those infected, not 3%, maybe the zero was left out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 05, 2021, 04:51:14 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2021, 04:26:45 PM

The 1918-1919 flu infected an estimated 30% of the world's population, and killed about ten percent of those infected, not 3%, maybe the zero was left out.

I hate posting from phone... if I mistype "and" with "amd" I usually just leave it as yall will figure that out.  Jist and just os another... perfect example os and is... 

BUT that damn zero had value above, well, the nothing it represents. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 05, 2021, 04:59:45 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 05, 2021, 03:52:16 PM

I'm saying it was ALL mishandled, and on the heels of a circumstance that was NOT mishandled.  I'm asking "why is that?"...

I'm opining that it was seized by media and the democrats, who are one and the same, and weaponized in effort to eliminate a political enemy.  I'm saying that media and politicians stayed clear of H1N1 and allowed policies and procedures to deploy and operate without meddling for 'optics'... I'm saying that Fauci and Birch were exposed as charlatans to anyone paying attention and were rolled out and fought over by both sides as political pawns.  I'm saying the lessons learned from H1N1 were completely lost when addressing COVID19.  I'm calling it plainly- a political operation.

Spanish flue impacted 3% of the global population.  The flu of 1968 has a harsh one.  2009/10 H1N1 impacted .03% of the population, and killed more than people realize.  COVID19 is not something to trifle with, however, and especially in the beginning there was knee jerk reactions taking place... why? because it was man made and 'novel'- people were unequipped to combat it.  Other than 'that' little bit of it (not little at all) it is no more threatening than H1N1- the infection rate is/was higher because of that. 

The mortality rate of H1N1--while highly infectious--was miniscule. They estimate there were 60M cases in the US, and only 12-13K deaths. It was significantly less fatal than the flu, which is why all the concern and media uproar died down so quickly. 

COVID-19 was highly infectious and significantly higher mortality than the flu, which coupled with the fact that it was novel, meant that the impact would be orders of magnitude higher. We didn't have solid numbers (still don't), but much of the estimates are somewhere between 0.5% and 1% mortality, probably on the lower end of that range. That means it's ~5x higher mortality than seasonal flu, we didn't have a vaccine for it, and we had no natural immunity. That's a bad combination...

H1N1 never would have resulted in the lockdowns, because H1N1 was a completely different beast. As for difference in media attention? I'll readily admit that the media made this about Trump and his response; ever since he announced his candidacy, everything in the United States has been about Trump. But the entire media effort would have fizzled out in a month if this thing was anything like H1N1. 

Quote from: utee94 on April 05, 2021, 04:17:16 PM

The initial rollouts came as the next steps in the process after the approvals.  They're all connected. The first doses were administered in the USA by mid-December and at that point tens of millions of doses were already in the manufacturing process.  If you're saying those had nothing to do with the sitting president at the time, well that's certainly a thing you could say.  If you're saying tens of millions of doses were NOT in manufacturing WIP until January 20th, well that's something else.

The USA handled all of that pretty well.  While Europe has faltered pretty badly.  There's no realistic way to view it any differently than that.

Looking into it further, I can give Trump some credit on this. Apparently the big contracts where the gov't agreed in advance to buy millions of doses of the vaccines if they were successful appear to be an executive branch action. 

Not to say another President or administration wouldn't have done the same, but I'll call a spade a spade on this one. Kudos to him and his administration for doing it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2021, 06:39:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2021, 03:20:57 PM

What does the term 'born on third base and thought he hit a triple' mean? - Quora (https://www.quora.com/What-does-the-term-born-on-third-base-and-thought-he-hit-a-triple-mean)

Looks like a lot of folks think it means what I think it means.  

It's too bad what most people think doesn't make it so.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2021, 06:42:07 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 05, 2021, 03:02:32 PM

youre not playing the race card again are ya

Sounds like it

I type "everything...your whole situation" and you come away with race card?  This is revealing of where your head's at.  I don't find you worthwhile of remaining in this conversation that you weren't a part of in the first place.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2021, 06:43:23 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 05, 2021, 03:09:41 PM

I chose to take control of the situation handed to me. Wanted to be better, made it happen, and never begged for school money from anyone, let alone the government.

So people who didn't turn out successful didn't want to be better?  
.
Is taking out a school loan "begging" for money?  
.
Stay humble.  Jesus christ.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 05, 2021, 07:06:57 PM

Quote

The USA handled all of that pretty well.  While Europe has faltered pretty badly.  There's no realistic way to view it any differently than that.

Thank God for big government amirite???


From what I've read the biggest problem has been the EU, which is a much weaker version of a federal government compared to ours. Before they can take any action they need some sort of consent for every country, all while we could more or less just write checks to several companies without even Congressional oversight, which is what we did. Though I'm not sure there is a ton of American exceptionalism there. Pfizer took no money initially from us, but did in partnership with Germany, and their timeline was the same (and they did enter into contracts with out government later). The UK has been a bit better than us on vaccinations (Brexit?).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2021, 07:10:40 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2021, 06:42:07 PM

I type "everything...your whole situation" and you come away with race card?  This is revealing of where your head's at.  I don't find you worthwhile of remaining in this conversation that you weren't a part of in the first place.

The term is generally meant to be about finances, as I linked to other's opinions.  Someone who worked up from a relatively impoverished state to success didn't start on third base, or second, or first.  I'm not sure what else should be factored into "whole situation" when one uses the baseball analogy.  Obviously, having good parents is a big help, as is having some good teachers, and various and sundry, but starting on third base means financially.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2021, 07:12:53 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 05, 2021, 07:06:57 PM

Thank God for big government amirite???


From what I've read the biggest problem has been the EU, which is a much weaker version of a federal government compared to ours. Before they can take any action they need some sort of consent for every country, all while we could more or less just write checks to several companies without even Congressional oversight, which is what we did. Though I'm not sure there is a ton of American exceptionalism there. Pfizer took no money initially from us, but did in partnership with Germany, and their timeline was the same (and they did enter into contracts with out government later). The UK has been a bit better than us on vaccinations (Brexit?).

France has a MUCH more centralized government than does the US with much greater power vested in the President.  The EU obviously is not a country but a kind of financial merger of interests, each country remains largely independent and in control of matters such as this, and most other things unrelated to currency.

One issue they have is a higher percentage of folks who don't trust the safety of the vaccine, but that hasn't played much of a role as yet because they aren't getting enough vaccine, probably for complicated reasons.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 05, 2021, 07:36:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2021, 07:12:53 PM

France has a MUCH more centralized government than does the US with much greater power vested in the President.  The EU obviously is not a country but a kind of financial merger of interests, each country remains largely independent and in control of matters such as this, and most other things unrelated to currency.

One issue they have is a higher percentage of folks who don't trust the safety of the vaccine, but that hasn't played much of a role as yet because they aren't getting enough vaccine, probably for complicated reasons.

A lot of European countries relied on the EU to fund and coordinate vaccine acquisition. This hasn't been great, resulting most of the EU countries haven't remarkably similar numbers. Also, they had contracted with the Astozeneca vaccine, which has both been unable to fulfill its commitments and at least had the appearance of problems. France and Germany have wildly different poll numbers on willingness to take the vaccine, but the actual rollout has been quite similar.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2021, 07:48:40 PM

Any country that relied on the EU for something like this obviously made a huge mistake.  The wife tells me France did not, they usually go their own way.

France is a mess right now, shut down including schools this time.  They all told us not to come under any circumstance.  My step daughter is trying to figure a way to come back over here.  

All this stuff is probably complex, but the "analyses" I see often are just political spin, and unreliable in my view.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2021, 07:57:15 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2021, 07:10:40 PM

The term is generally meant to be about finances, as I linked to other's opinions.  Someone who worked up from a relatively impoverished state to success didn't start on third base, or second, or first.  I'm not sure what else should be factored into "whole situation" when one uses the baseball analogy.  Obviously, having good parents is a big help, as is having some good teachers, and various and sundry, but starting on third base means financially.

Seriously?
I specified what I meant.  What it generally means is worth fuck-all here.  Butt out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 05, 2021, 08:12:55 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 05, 2021, 04:59:45 PM

Looking into it further, I can give Trump some credit on this. Apparently the big contracts where the gov't agreed in advance to buy millions of doses of the vaccines if they were successful appear to be an executive branch action.

Not to say another President or administration wouldn't have done the same, but I'll call a spade a spade on this one. Kudos to him and his administration for doing it.

Yes, and believe me, that's ALL I'm saying.  That's ALL the credit I'm willing to give to the previous administration, but I do think they handled that bit pretty well.  If nothing else, Trump's natural tendency toward bullying, and single-minded focus on a few odd details, finally worked in our favor.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2021, 09:17:53 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2021, 06:42:07 PM

I type "everything...your whole situation" and you come away with race card?  This is revealing of where your head's at.  I don't find you worthwhile of remaining in this conversation that you weren't a part of in the first place.

When you are saying its not economics but instead what you come into this world with

how else can it be meant but your sex or your race

now if you are commenting on male vs female you have my apology 

I think you were saying if someone isnt white in this country they have a harder task being successful

which of course is playing the race card

and I dont need your permission to comment on this forum

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 12:08:29 AM

Buddy....I'm starting to feel for you.  Your lack of depth on this thing probably isn't your fault.  But it's sort of illustrating what I mean by what base you're born on and your whole situation that is out of your hands.  Here are a few non-race (BECAUSE THAT'S ALL YOU'RE ABLE TO SEE) examples:
your mother's neonatal care
the type of interactions you had in your first 3 years of life (frequency, quality, type, etc)
the quality of your elementary school
the role you father played (quiet breadwinner, friendly, funny, disciplinarian, etc)
your parent's relationship - they're actual relationship, not the show they put on for you and your siblings (that all couples put on)
the memories that stuck with you from childhood - positive, negative - what ratio?  bullying, violent, boring, stressful?
yes, your race (gasp)
yes, your sex 
hell, honestly, even your height/weight - was it a thing, was it not?  did you wish you were taller?  skinnier?  stronger?  
.
I could literally sit here and type endlessly on this.  And your brain can't get past the race card.
I'm sorry your horizon is so close.  That must be frustrating.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 06, 2021, 12:25:36 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 12:08:29 AM

Buddy....I'm starting to feel for you.  Your lack of depth on this thing probably isn't your fault.  But it's sort of illustrating what I mean by what base you're born on and your whole situation that is out of your hands.  Here are a few non-race (BECAUSE THAT'S ALL YOU'RE ABLE TO SEE) examples:
your mother's neonatal care
the type of interactions you had in your first 3 years of life (frequency, quality, type, etc)
the quality of your elementary school
the role you father played (quiet breadwinner, friendly, funny, disciplinarian, etc)
your parent's relationship - they're actual relationship, not the show they put on for you and your siblings (that all couples put on)
the memories that stuck with you from childhood - positive, negative - what ratio?  bullying, violent, boring, stressful?
yes, your race (gasp)
yes, your sex
hell, honestly, even your height/weight - was it a thing, was it not?  did you wish you were taller?  skinnier?  stronger? 
.
I could literally sit here and type endlessly on this.  And your brain can't get past the race card.
I'm sorry your horizon is so close.  That must be frustrating.

youre moving the goal post 

youre now including things you aren't born with saying Im short sighted for not knowing them

Hell I can do that

getting bit by a dog early in age so now youre afraid of animals

developing allergies and needing shots making you afraid of doctors 

seeing a scary movie which made you afraid of the dark

there are a lot of other things that can happen to you after youre born but your original statement was 
aspects that you are born with

you do a great job of trying to back track from your original statement but its pretty clear what your intent was

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 01:46:46 AM

Things out of your control.  There are hundreds when you're born and it goes on from there.  And by the way, none of this has to do with you.  I guess 847 is busy getting humble.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2021, 07:36:37 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2021, 07:57:15 PM

Seriously?
I specified what I meant.  What it generally means is worth fuck-all here.  Butt out.

After badge explained his situation, you claimed he only posted about his financial situation.  I showed that is generally what it means to be "born on  base".

His response was spot on with the normally understood meaning of the term.  If you want to be your own lexicographer, fine, but do it up front, not later, when folks respond using the NORMAL accepted definitions.

Now you get irritated when folks point out what a thing means when you misused the term.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2021, 08:20:42 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2021, 06:43:23 PM

So people who didn't turn out successful didn't want to be better? 
.
Is taking out a school loan "begging" for money? 
.
Stay humble.  Jesus christ. 

Success can be had by anyone who truly wants it. Success is also defined differently by everyone.

.

When we have pols talking about $50K forgiveness (to help bratty white kids with shit degrees no less) of student loans, I get pissed off. Yes, people are begging for money.

.

No comment.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2021, 08:22:44 AM

Most MDs had to take out loans for med school, which makes sense, but it doesn't make sense for "us" to pay for their loans when they are making bank now.

If you took out a loan, fine with me, but pay it back, as you agreed to do back when.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2021, 08:25:34 AM

Time for a ban on Samurai knives.

Man used ‘samurai knife’ to kill elderly family member in Bellwood: prosecutors (fox32chicago.com) (https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/man-used-samurai-knife-to-kill-elderly-family-member-in-bellwood-prosecutors)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 06, 2021, 08:42:48 AM

you fellas believe the student loan forgiveness thing is about helping students?

many, possibly most "student" loans are sold to lenders by the students to get a better interest rate or terms or consolidate into one more manageable loan

I assume, student loan forgiveness will benefit billionaire bankers and lenders, not so much students.

Maybe I'm just jaded and hopefully wrong, but when the feds decide to help someone, it's usually their billionaire buddies, not poor college students

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2021, 08:48:25 AM

I'm sure it would help some deserving individuals, but many, if not most, not really much, they could buy another Porsche I guess.  And would there be any end to it?

A HS kid today would be stupid not to get loans to the max even if his parents can afford to pay for college.

To me, it's an idiotic idea to have folks who never went to college paying for those who did with loans who often are making more money.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 06, 2021, 09:30:21 AM

I'm not a huge fan of the idea of student loan forgiveness, but I'm also not a fan of what our university education system has become.

The focus on getting a college education that in most cases is not geared toward enablement toward joining the workforce, yet is still an almost mandatory prelude to joining the workforce, is frustrating and misguided.  And the widespread availability of loans to fund this unnecessary and misplaced education, is enabling the universities to increase costs at a dramatic rate, without much check or balance to the value of the money being spent or the appropriateness of the education being provided.

It's all sad and broken and the students are the ones getting caught in the crossfire.

In reality, a large percentage of those students would be better served in vocational training and never should have gone to college at all.  But in our country, the American Dream has become conflated with insistence upon a college education, and vocational training is consequently stigmatized.  Until we can correct those issues, I don't see much chance of reforming the entire post-secondary-educational system in the US.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 06, 2021, 09:31:16 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 06, 2021, 08:42:48 AM

you fellas believe the student loan forgiveness thing is about helping students?

many, possibly most "student" loans are sold to lenders by the students to get a better interest rate or terms or consolidate into one more manageable loan

I assume, student loan forgiveness will benefit billionaire bankers and lenders, not so much students.

Maybe I'm just jaded and hopefully wrong, but when the feds decide to help someone, it's usually their billionaire buddies, not poor college students

How in the world Does loans not being repaid help bankers?  As a banker I can assure you that you are dead wrong on this one

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 06, 2021, 09:36:45 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 06, 2021, 09:31:16 AM

How in the world Does loans not being repaid help bankers?  As a banker I can assure you that you are dead wrong on this one

Everything helps bankers


They are evil

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 06, 2021, 09:37:55 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 06, 2021, 09:36:45 AM

Everything helps bankers


They are evil

I'm okay with bankers.

Lawyers, on the other hand...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2021, 09:41:20 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 06, 2021, 09:30:21 AM

In reality, a large percentage of those students would be better served in vocational training and never should have gone to college at all.  But in our country, the American Dream has become conflated with insistence upon a college education, and vocational training is consequently stigmatized.  Until we can correct those issues, I don't see much chance of reforming the entire post-secondary-educational system in the US.

Europe is very different here, and much less egalitarian than the US.  They stream kids early and only 35% or so attend college.  The US is almost double that.  Kids with academic records below average go to college.  And their kids in college study only their major and closely related subjects, if you major in EE, you take engineering, only, not history or English or whatever, maybe some math or physics, maybe.

Their college level kids are expected to have learned history and language and whatever else.  Ours haven't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2021, 09:41:59 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 06, 2021, 09:37:55 AM

I'm okay with bankers.

Lawyers, on the other hand...

How about a banking lawyer?

I am lucky to never have had much issue with banks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2021, 09:46:19 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 06, 2021, 09:30:21 AM

I'm not a huge fan of the idea of student loan forgiveness, but I'm also not a fan of what our university education system has become.

The focus on getting a college education that in most cases is not geared toward enablement toward joining the workforce, yet is still an almost mandatory prelude to joining the workforce, is frustrating and misguided.  And the widespread availability of loans to fund this unnecessary and misplaced education, is enabling the universities to increase costs at a dramatic rate, without much check or balance to the value of the money being spent or the appropriateness of the education being provided.

It's all sad and broken and the students are the ones getting caught in the crossfire.

In reality, a large percentage of those students would be better served in vocational training and never should have gone to college at all.  But in our country, the American Dream has become conflated with insistence upon a college education, and vocational training is consequently stigmatized.  Until we can correct those issues, I don't see much chance of reforming the entire post-secondary-educational system in the US.

Nor am I. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 06, 2021, 09:55:09 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 06, 2021, 09:41:20 AM

Europe is very different here, and much less egalitarian than the US.  They stream kids early and only 35% or so attend college.  The US is almost double that.  Kids with academic records below average go to college.  And their kids in college study only their major and closely related subjects, if you major in EE, you take engineering, only, not history or English or whatever, maybe some math or physics, maybe.

Their college level kids are expected to have learned history and language and whatever else.  Ours haven't.

Yes, I'm a big fan of how Europe handles it.  

But as you say, they're not nearly as egalitarian as we are. I don't know HOW to change our system to work better for our citizens, but I do believe that the college financial crisis will only get worse unless/until we do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 10:00:51 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 06, 2021, 08:48:25 AM

I'm sure it would help some deserving individuals, but many, if not most, not really much, they could buy another Porsche I guess.  And would there be any end to it?

A HS kid today would be stupid not to get loans to the max even if his parents can afford to pay for college.

To me, it's an idiotic idea to have folks who never went to college paying for those who did with loans who often are making more money.

You're quite literally backwards.  
Where is this army of rich young adults who can repay their loans, but aren't?!??   How is that (fictional) population not dwarfed by tens of millions of poor young adults just getting by, with student loan debt they can never hope to repay???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 10:03:17 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2021, 08:20:42 AM

Success can be had by anyone who truly wants it. 

Aaaaaaaand here's where you're lost.  You can't fathom a person who truly wants success not achieving it.  You're in some sort of alternate universe, friend.  And this proves it.

We have a newest "wrongest wrong that was ever wronged" statement.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2021, 10:07:05 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 10:03:17 AM

Aaaaaaaand here's where you're lost.  You can't fathom a person who truly wants success not achieving it.  You're in some sort of alternate universe, friend.  And this proves it.

We have a newest "wrongest wrong that was ever wronged" statement.

See, I think you are the one who is lost. You have very little faith in people, it seems. I choose to think otherwise. And to think positively.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 10:11:15 AM

Yes, in a fairy princess land where some people, largely due to their station in life and/or what base they were born on, face impossible to overcome obstacles over and over until they're subjected to a shit life of survival in a society that doesn't care.

But I'm sure I'm just making that up.  
Come to Maryvale in urban Phoenix and walk around telling people that all they have to do is truly want success for it to happen.  
Having your sidearm might come in handy.  But that's just them being violent against you, a positive-thinker, oblivious to the actual world.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2021, 10:12:02 AM

Who owes the most in student loans: New data from the Fed (brookings.edu) (https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/10/09/who-owes-the-most-in-student-loans-new-data-from-the-fed/)

The fact that households in the upper half of the income distribution and those with graduate degrees hold a disproportionate share of that debt almost never makes it into the narrative. But who owes education debt is as important as how much debt there is.

The highest-income 40 percent of households (those with incomes above $74,000) owe almost 60 percent of the outstanding education debt and make almost three-quarters of the payments. The lowest-income 40 percent of households hold just under 20 percent of the outstanding debt and make only 10 percent of the payments. It should be no surprise that higher-income households owe more student debt than others. Students from higher-income households are more likely to go to college in the first place. And workers with a college or graduate degree earn substantially more in the labor market than those who never went to college.

(https://i.imgur.com/arkrjIo.png)

Some would no doubt benefit, but MANY as shown in the data are relatively high income folks who are able to pay it down.  And folks with no income can defer payments now.  I don't make this up, this is real, it's upper income folks who would benefit for the most part.

A growing share of borrowers participate in income-driven repayment (IDR) plans, which do not require any payments from those whose incomes are too low and limit payments to an affordable share of income for others. And some borrowers are in forbearance or deferment because of financial hardships. As a result, out-of-pocket loan payments are concentrated among high-income households; few low-income households enrolled in IDR are required to make payments.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 10:16:28 AM

Uhh, this part makes my point for me.
It should be no surprise that higher-income households owe more student debt than others. Students from higher-income households are more likely to go to college in the first place. And workers with a college or graduate degree earn substantially more in the labor market than those who never went to college.
More poorer people have debt - to state U.  The fewer rich kids have more debt - to Princeton and Wisconsin and WI-LaCrosse, etc. 

Just set an annual income level (or sliding scale), above which, your loans aren't forgiven.  Done.  Not a big deal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2021, 10:16:34 AM

Imagine, if you will, an under privileged person of whatever ilk who is honest, willing to show up on time, and do a reasonable job, say flipping burgers.  This person wants to succeed in life and is willing to work for it.  The manager of the franchise, no doubt frustrated in being  unable to find honest folks who show up on time and do a reasonable job, is going to notice him or her fairly quickly.  They have then a path to become assistant manager over time, and then manager,  they might need to find time to obtain more schooling at night, it's not an easy path by any means.  Folks do exist who have done this and who now own several franchises.

It's not impossible.  It's not easy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2021, 10:17:53 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 10:16:28 AM

More poorer people have debt - to state U.  The fewer rich kids have more debt - to Princeton and Wisconsin and WI-LaCrosse, etc. 

Just set an annual income level (or sliding scale), above which, your loans aren't forgiven.  Done.  Not a big deal.

But, what you propose isn't what is BEING proposed and discussed herein.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 10:21:12 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 06, 2021, 10:16:34 AM

Imagine, if you will, an under privileged person of whatever ilk who is honest, willing to show up on time, and do a reasonable job, say flipping burgers.  This person wants to succeed in life and is willing to work for it.  The manager of the franchise, no doubt frustrated in being  unable to find honest folks who show up on time and do a reasonable job, is going to notice him or her fairly quickly.  They have then a path to become assistant manager over time, and then manager,  they might need to find time to obtain more schooling at night, it's not an easy path by any means.  Folks do exist who have done this and who now own several franchises.

It's not impossible.  It's not easy.

Imagine a manager that doesn't see it.  It's a mismanaged fast food joint.  It goes out of business.  
OPEN YOUR EYES.

Here, just this morning, I'm on my way to work, I'm going to get some drive-thru breakfast (because my health isn't important to me).  So I pull into a Burger King in the ghetto.  It's obviously open, perhaps for 5-7 minutes (6:37) and no one answers at the menu sign.  I pull around.  Honk gently.  A guy comes over - "the system is still booting up, it'll be a few minutes."
I leave, because I'm in a hurry.  That fast-food joint is mismanaged.  They should have someone there early enough to boot the system so that they're ready to take orders the minute they open.  I doubt the owner knows his "restaurant" is being handled this way.

A shitty joint like that isn't going to appreciate the good worker who is on time and does a good job, they're going to run him ragged, covering other, bad worker's shifts until he wants to quit.  It's called reality.  Try it, sometime.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 10:21:45 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 06, 2021, 10:17:53 AM

But, what you propose isn't what is BEING proposed and discussed herein.

It can be, if both sides are willing to be human beings and discuss things.  Instead of blindly saying NO.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2021, 10:24:55 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 10:21:45 AM

It can be, if both sides are willing to be human beings and discuss things.  Instead of blindly saying NO.

It COULD be, but it isn't.  I'm willing to discuss alternatives obviously, but not something that is NOT what is being proposed currently.

I've shown how this is primarily a bailout for the wealthier students and banks more than assistance to the truly needy.  If someone some day modifies the parameters then it can be discussed.  

I see no reason to discuss something not extant beyond being suggested here.  It's not "real", it's not what is being pushed.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 06, 2021, 10:27:50 AM

10k probably isn't doing much for the doctors but it would be doing a lot for the nurses

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2021, 10:35:45 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 06, 2021, 10:27:50 AM

10k probably isn't doing much for the doctors but it would be doing a lot for the nurses

Nursing School is one area that I would propose earned tuition for all, everywhere. Meet certain criteria (decent grades, community service, punctuality, etc.) and you are in at no cost.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2021, 10:37:52 AM

I'm sure we collectively could find a plan for much of this that would make sense and work, but what is being proposed is in my view extremely stupid and unfair.

As noted, $10 K doesn't help doctors appreciably, nor do they need it, and for someone struggling with $100 K in debt, it doesn't help them much either.  But this all is asking Joe the Plumber to foot the bill one way or the other.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 06, 2021, 10:38:39 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 06, 2021, 10:27:50 AM

10k probably isn't doing much for the doctors but it would be doing a lot for the nurses

and where does this 10K come from?

from those that have giving to those who need?

from redistributing wealth?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2021, 10:46:54 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 10:11:15 AM

Yes, in a fairy princess land where some people, largely due to their station in life and/or what base they were born on, face impossible to overcome obstacles over and over until they're subjected to a shit life of survival in a society that doesn't care.

But I'm sure I'm just making that up. 
Come to Maryvale in urban Phoenix and walk around telling people that all they have to do is truly want success for it to happen. 
Having your sidearm might come in handy.  But that's just them being violent against you, a positive-thinker, oblivious to the actual world. 

You have no clue where I've been and what I've done for people in need. Zero clue. Less than Zero.

I have many solutions. The powers that be do not like my solutions, because they are all designed to lift people - not to hold them down to be mere subjects to their rulers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2021, 10:51:35 AM

I think it's easier to believe there is NO chance for any success in life to rationalize why a person failed to achieve it.

The MAN kept me down ....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2021, 10:52:27 AM

These cutting boards you may notice to the right are really beautiful and make nice gifts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2021, 10:58:21 AM

Share of outstanding student debt held by households with different levels of educational attainment, 2016 and 2019

	Share of student debt
Highest level of education of household head or spouse	2016	2019
No college degree	13%	8%
AA	12%	7%
BA	27%	29%
MA	27%	36%
Professional/Doctoral	21%	20%

Source: Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System (2017, 2020), Survey of Consumer Finances 2016 and 2019, https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scfindex.htm (https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scfindex.htm), calculations by the authors.


Seems like some rich folks like this idea ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 06, 2021, 11:15:00 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 10:21:12 AM

Imagine a manager that doesn't see it.  It's a mismanaged fast food joint.  It goes out of business. 
OPEN YOUR EYES.

Here, just this morning, I'm on my way to work, I'm going to get some drive-thru breakfast (because my health isn't important to me).  So I pull into a Burger King in the ghetto.  It's obviously open, perhaps for 5-7 minutes (6:37) and no one answers at the menu sign.  I pull around.  Honk gently.  A guy comes over - "the system is still booting up, it'll be a few minutes."
I leave, because I'm in a hurry.  That fast-food joint is mismanaged.  They should have someone there early enough to boot the system so that they're ready to take orders the minute they open.  I doubt the owner knows his "restaurant" is being handled this way.

A shitty joint like that isn't going to appreciate the good worker who is on time and does a good job, they're going to run him ragged, covering other, bad worker's shifts until he wants to quit.  It's called reality.  Try it, sometime.

Nice anecdote.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 06, 2021, 11:16:14 AM

The American dream is why people risk their lives to cross that border. 

The American dream is dying as a caste system here develops.  The opportunities to grow are being crushed with each move away from capitalism and toward 'free'.  Ain't nothing free.  The flavor of free socialism offers costs you freedom.  Those atop the stack won't notice or care the opportunities are taken from those without stake to enter the game.  It makes it harder for those, if not impossible. 

I'd think it foolish to suggest some don't have advantages others do- and I haven't seen that suggested here, I'm just throwing it out there.  Some receive the ball on their opponents 10 yard line.. others on their own 10 yard line.  Even the mighty Bama would lose more games if yardage was subsidized, but even then people would seek out the product bama produces as its known to be superior to most... is that a pisser? Yeah it sure is, but you know what? Bama earned that, and it's now up to a team with luck as much as skill and determination to take that from them.

This isn't a American problem.  It's a dynamic that has existed long before- as in "always".  You can either sit around and complain about it, which seems popular to do while trying to get something for as little as possible, or, you can bust your ass and attempt to be prepared when an opportunity presents itself- and hope one does. 

It's the story of life... ain't no legislation going to change it.  It may alter it, but natural progression will win. 

"No law, written by man and which contradicts the laws of nature, will survive the test of time.". 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2021, 11:32:13 AM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 06, 2021, 11:16:14 AM

The American dream is why people risk their lives to cross that border. 

The American dream is dying as a caste system here develops.  The opportunities to grow are being crushed with each move away from capitalism and toward 'free'.  Ain't nothing free.  The flavor of free socialism offers costs you freedom.  Those atop the stack won't notice or care the opportunities are taken from those without stake to enter the game.  It makes it harder for those, if not impossible. 

I'd think it foolish to suggest some don't have advantages others do- and I haven't seen that suggested here, I'm just throwing it out there.  Some receive the ball on their opponents 10 yard line.. others on their own 10 yard line.  Even the mighty Bama would lose more games if yardage was subsidized, but even then people would seek out the product bama produces as its known to be superior to most... is that a pisser? Yeah it sure is, but you know what? Bama earned that, and it's now up to a team with luck as much as skill and determination to take that from them.

This isn't a American problem.  It's a dynamic that has existed long before- as in "always".  You can either sit around and complain about it, which seems popular to do while trying to get something for as little as possible, or, you can bust your ass and attempt to be prepared when an opportunity presents itself- and hope one does. 

It's the story of life... ain't no legislation going to change it.  It may alter it, but natural progression will win. 

"No law, written by man and which contradicts the laws of nature, will survive the test of time.". 

But, at least you get the ball, with an opportunity to do something with it.

This is my whole point.

The way things seem headed could be detrimental to my solutions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 11:33:40 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 06, 2021, 11:15:00 AM

Nice anecdote.

Built on his sturdy foundation, lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 06, 2021, 11:38:46 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2021, 11:32:13 AM

But, at least you get the ball, with an opportunity to do something with it.

This is my whole point.

The way things seem headed could be detrimental to my solutions.

Absolutely.  Some opportunities are out there and are completely disguised as pitfalls... somebody somewhere, either through vision that others lack or through necessity will identify that opportunity.  Yet there are opportunities galore that far outnumber the hurdles... it, in my humble opinion, is about positioning and being able to respond.  For many, who live a life defeated before they even begin, they'll identify the reasons they have no opportunities with the same vigor that would be better spent 'positioning' themselves.  Those who have spent a lifetime positioning themselves may not cash out as quickly or dramatically,  but... theyve given themselves every opportunity they could.  For those folks, I feel bad.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 11:39:48 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2021, 11:32:13 AM

But, at least you get the ball, with an opportunity to do something with it.

This is my whole point.

The way things seem headed could be detrimental to my solutions.

I'm not sure you're taking into account the VAST difference between back in your day coming up and now.  None of the debts/costs have grown commensurate with the payoffs/salaries.  The ratio is insanely different then how it used to be, because those in power have made it so.  
I got dragged over the coals for suggesting we have a near slave class here, but what do you call Amazon's corporate earnings vs the earnings and quality-of-life of its warehouse workers?  No matter how radical that chasm was between Carnegie or Vanderbilt was with their workers, it's astronomically more so today.

And its not just Amazon, it's that trend across the board.  Want to better yourself with a college degree?  Look at the cost for that compared to in the past.  It's stupid.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 11:41:19 AM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 06, 2021, 11:38:46 AM

 For many, who live a life defeated before they even begin, they'll identify the reasons they have no opportunities with the same vigor that would be better spent 'positioning' themselves.  Those who have spent a lifetime positioning themselves may not cash out as quickly or dramatically,  but... theyve given themselves every opportunity they could.  For those folks, I feel bad. 

I've been assured that those people either don't exist or simply need to try harder.  Because this is 1954 and everyone gets the payoff hard work provides.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 11:44:23 AM

We've all seen/heard the success story of the immigrant making good or the first-in-family college graduate owning a successful company, but those are noteworthy because they're rare!

Not a lot of feel-good news stories on the multitudes that it didn't become a success story WHILE efforting just as much or more as the few that did.  I really hate this invented narrative of the only thing holding you back is you.  Bullllllllllllll shitttttttttttttttt.  



Some of us don't want to accept the reality that our country isn't perfect and that everyone isn't given every opportunity to succeed.  How can someone so proud be so naive?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 06, 2021, 11:53:27 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 11:41:19 AM

I've been assured that those people either don't exist or simply need to try harder.  Because this is 1954 and everyone gets the payoff hard work provides.

You're blaming the times and the system. 

Convenient. 

History is bound to repeat itself because the nature of man hasn't changed.  People are greedy and seek power over their environment- that ain't no secret.  In America, you have opportunities other nations citizens don't have. 

You can blame the times or the system, but those are both ever changing.  Nature of man doesn't.  There are just of not many many more opportunities now than ever before... time and effort was a massive barter piece 50 years ago as it took people to process materials, paperwork, logistics, et al... now, most of that is automated and people's time less of a barter piece for pay... now, it's about effectiveness and innovation.

I met a guy who was friends with my dad (better said my dad worked for him) when I was a kid.  I labored for him on his farm.  He's still likely the wealthiest person I ever personally knew.  He told me once "sell to the classes live with the masses; sell to the masses live with the classes"... that summed up his business approach.  Guess what? That is dead, now... with the advent of internet and communication, YOU can sell a college football board game.  Without it? Good luck.  With that board game that appeals only to a small segment of world population, you can make a reasonably successful side gig- where that effort would earn you squat without being able to find that market.  The rules changed.. as they always do.  How many people at the fast food joint are busting their asses producing and packaging board games in the wee hours and sending them across the globe for reasonable prices?  ......... 

Be careful with your response here... you've painted yourself into a corner. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Kris60 on April 06, 2021, 11:55:01 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 10:11:15 AM

Yes, in a fairy princess land where some people, largely due to their station in life and/or what base they were born on, face impossible to overcome obstacles over and over until they're subjected to a shit life of survival in a society that doesn't care.

But I'm sure I'm just making that up. 
Come to Maryvale in urban Phoenix and walk around telling people that all they have to do is truly want success for it to happen. 
Having your sidearm might come in handy.  But that's just them being violent against you, a positive-thinker, oblivious to the actual world. 

You are absolutely right. Simply wanting to be successful isn’t enough. It takes action, initiative, sacrifice, etc. If you asked me if I wanted six pack abs I’d tell you yes, but I’m unwilling to put in the necessary work to achieve that. And, yeah, I was probably born with some traits that make it harder for me to achieve that than others.

But, yes, your point is well taken. Badge’s message probably wouldn’t be well received by some. Once people make up their minds they can’t do something it’s very difficult to convince them otherwise.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2021, 11:58:25 AM

Quote from: Kris60 on April 06, 2021, 11:55:01 AM

You are absolutely right. Simply wanting to be successful isn’t enough. It takes action, initiative, sacrifice, etc. If you asked me if I wanted six pack abs I’d tell you yes, but I’m unwilling to put in the necessary work to achieve that. And, yeah, I was probably born with some traits that make it harder for me to achieve that than others.

But, yes, your point is well taken. Badge’s message probably wouldn’t be well received by some. Once people make up their minds they can’t do something it’s very difficult to convince them otherwise.

That word in that context is not in my vocabulary. Sorry.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 06, 2021, 12:06:34 PM

Can't = don't wanna
Can't = too hard
Can't = (sometimes) "it's being guarded by a friggin ferocious bear and it just ain't that important to me (and I don't wanna)". 

Can= it requires effort, attention, intent and TENACITY (to some degree).  

It's a personal decision, but I'd choose to live in a world of possibilities rather than one controlled by someone else.  Even in red Russia there were opportunities- had to go underground, but..  they were there. 

Speaking of which- Google x-ray records..  you're welcome.  

In red Russia a fella realized he could use old x-rays as a medium for pressing/cutting records.  He brought in music from around the world and sold them to people all over Russia.  This was strictly forbidden.  He was ultimately caught and sent to prison, but his innovation was copied by countless people and xray records became a thing amd earned those capable of making them a good little side kick.  

Innovation.  Effort.  Vision. Tenacity.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 06, 2021, 12:32:13 PM

That's why we need more immigrants

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 06, 2021, 12:33:48 PM

I pull around.  Honk gently.

this made me smile

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 06, 2021, 12:34:59 PM

Quote from: Kris60 on April 06, 2021, 11:55:01 AM

You are absolutely right. Simply wanting to be successful isn’t enough. It takes action, initiative, sacrifice, etc. If you asked me if I wanted six pack abs I’d tell you yes, but I’m unwilling to put in the necessary work to achieve that. And, yeah, I was probably born with some traits that make it harder for me to achieve that than others.

But, yes, your point is well taken. Badge’s message probably wouldn’t be well received by some. Once people make up their minds they can’t do something it’s very difficult to convince them otherwise.

many times by 2 or 3 or more generations of passing down to the next generation

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 06, 2021, 12:37:59 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 06, 2021, 12:32:13 PM

That's why we need more immigrants

legal immigrants not to be confused with the over 100K illegal immigrants arriving in the US in March

at this rate the monthly amount will average 250K illegal immigrants each month

our country as we currently know it will be gone if this isnt stopped

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 06, 2021, 12:42:50 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 06, 2021, 12:37:59 PM

legal immigrants not to be confused with the over 100K illegal immigrants arriving in the US in March

at this rate the monthly amount will average 250K illegal immigrants each month

our country as we currently know it will be gone if this isnt stopped

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 06, 2021, 12:32:13 PM

That's why we need more immigrants

i'd trade one-for-one many of those here for many of those willing to risk it all for a better life.  

i just wish they'd do it legally... which means the legal process ought to be simplified.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 06, 2021, 12:45:05 PM

can we legally trade one for one?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 06, 2021, 12:47:01 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 06, 2021, 12:45:05 PM

can we legally trade one for one?

identity theft is real.... i don't see why we can't leverage that?  

see, 'fro? opportunity. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 01:11:24 PM

Quote from: Kris60 on April 06, 2021, 11:55:01 AM

But, yes, your point is well taken. Badge’s message probably wouldn’t be well received by some. Once people make up their minds they can’t do something it’s very difficult to convince them otherwise.

This wording doesn't seem to have the proper empathy.  It's not that their minds are made up, it's that every (literally, every) time an extra effort is ever made, it's squashed.  
I'm an exemplary employee - it goes unnoticed or the places closes down.
I take a 2nd job and my child starts having violent outbursts at school.
I take out a loan (ie - begging the gov't for money, apparently), and get laid off soon after, leaving me up the creek.

These are the commonplace happenings, not the success stories.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2021, 01:13:54 PM

Success starts with quality education, from preschool on up.

And THAT system is completely broken. 

That's where I would start.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 01:26:35 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 06, 2021, 11:53:27 AM

You're blaming the times and the system. 

Convenient. 

History is bound to repeat itself because the nature of man hasn't changed.  People are greedy and seek power over their environment- that ain't no secret.  In America, you have opportunities other nations citizens don't have. 

You can blame the times or the system, but those are both ever changing.  Nature of man doesn't.  There are just of not many many more opportunities now than ever before... time and effort was a massive barter piece 50 years ago as it took people to process materials, paperwork, logistics, et al... now, most of that is automated and people's time less of a barter piece for pay... now, it's about effectiveness and innovation.

I met a guy who was friends with my dad (better said my dad worked for him) when I was a kid.  I labored for him on his farm.  He's still likely the wealthiest person I ever personally knew.  He told me once "sell to the classes live with the masses; sell to the masses live with the classes"... that summed up his business approach.  Guess what? That is dead, now... with the advent of internet and communication, YOU can sell a college football board game.  Without it? Good luck.  With that board game that appeals only to a small segment of world population, you can make a reasonably successful side gig- where that effort would earn you squat without being able to find that market.  The rules changed.. as they always do.  How many people at the fast food joint are busting their asses producing and packaging board games in the wee hours and sending them across the globe for reasonable prices?  .........

Be careful with your response here... you've painted yourself into a corner.

I blame the time/era because 847 seems to think now is then.  Of course now is not then.  That's the point.  Now, roadblocks existed then as they do now, and of course, they're widely different.  But many are the same and of the same ones - some are better, some are worse. 

As for my game, it's an obvious luxury for it to have begun in the first place.  Not the luxury of money, but of privileges.  I was privileged enough to seek out a game to play.  I was nitpicky enough that I didn't find anything that I wanted.  I had the time to look....if I had to take the bus to work everyday, I wouldn't have bothered.  If I had 2 jobs already, or kids, or this or that, I wouldn't have even taken that first step.  More privilege, and a doozy:  when I didn't find what I wanted, I had the wherewithal and CONFIDENCE to say, "screw it, I'll create it myself."  If I didn't know who my dad was and/or got a D every year in math and/or barely made ends meet, it wouldn't have happened.  If I didn't have the past life experience that when I really set my mind to do something, it turns out well more often than not, it wouldn't have happened.

Anyway, back to the times.  Bill James (baseball stat nerd chief) started out by placing a tiny ad in the Sporting News magazine.  I would have had to do something like that back in the 70s, and I would have. 

Yes, I've put in countless hours on a side gig that's been successful, but aside from that hard work that only happened due to my high confidence in that it wouldn't be in vain, it required a great amount of privilege to even get off the ground.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 01:27:49 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2021, 01:13:54 PM

Success starts with quality education, from preschool on up.

And THAT system is completely broken.

That's where I would start.

It's a system of forced cohorts, quick assessment scores, and doesn't seem to be anyone's actual priority.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2021, 01:43:49 PM

When I retire, education reform will be my life mission. 2 more years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 06, 2021, 01:45:56 PM

I thought it was 8 more months?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 01:50:54 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 06, 2021, 12:37:59 PM

our country as we currently know it will be gone if this isnt stopped

Yep, just like every little thing you're taught to fear.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2021, 01:52:20 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 06, 2021, 01:45:56 PM

I thought it was 8 more months?

Have to go a little longer. The partners want me to start an office down here. They will pay me buckets of money to do it, so why not?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 06, 2021, 01:52:40 PM

I assume there is both- those who start with nearly insurmountable obstacles who are able to find a way, and those who want to, try extremely hard, but the obstacles are just too much. 

I think it is naive to not think that there are many people who are very successful, but wouldn’t have been had they faced those obstacles.  Likewise- I think it is naive to not think there are many who struggle badly, who wouldn’t if they had more readily available opportunities. As Drew said- to some degree or in some way, it has always been that way. 

Too me the real questions ( the ones we all fight over) are:
-what can be done realistically to remove those obstacles and create  opportunities?

And

How much can be taken ( involuntarily) from those who are successful to be given to those who are not or not yet?  The redistribution of wealth problem. 

I emphasize the word “ involuntarily” because a connecting and very impacting side effect is this:
Much of the resource today that goes to help feed, educate, provide for and mentor those with low income, comes from private sector people and businesses (like 847 AND his business).  

If you tax them more- their ability to make those contributions is greatly reduced. That is a reality. 

That’s is the debate. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 01:56:10 PM

If you think the debate is about 847's tax dollars, then I'm done.  FFS.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 06, 2021, 01:58:28 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 01:56:10 PM

If you think the debate is about 847's tax dollars, then I'm done.  FFS.

If that’s what you got from my post you should be done FFS.  

read it carefully this time.  That is what I call an issue ver connected to the debate, but not the debate itself. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2021, 01:59:01 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 11:44:23 AM

Some of us don't want to accept the reality that our country isn't perfect and that everyone isn't given every opportunity to succeed.  How can someone so proud be so naive?

And here I thought everyone else on this site thought the US was entirely perfect ....

Or perhaps you make it your job to distort the plain meaning of not only terms but also what others have posted.  But you are welcome to whine all you want.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2021, 02:04:09 PM

So... education reform. Where to start?

Abolishing the Federal Department of Education would be a place to start. It's a useless entity and a waste of money. 

Next, work on curricula.

No more teacher unions. Reduce administrative staff. Consolidate school districts.

All of that will increase the amount of money that goes to students, and to teachers.


As of July 1, 2018, there were 852 public school districts: 368 elementary districts, 97 high school districts, 386 unit districts, and one Illinois Department of Juvenile Justice (https://www.bing.com/search?q=Illinois+Department+of+Juvenile+Justice&filters=sid%3aa9d27c79-9083-9989-cbc7-75b4d99c5fd4&form=ENTLNK) district.


This is a ridiculous number of tax-funded entities. Many of these school districts have only ONE school!!

Florida has 75 school districs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 06, 2021, 02:30:33 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2021, 01:52:20 PM

Have to go a little longer. The partners want me to start an office down here. They will pay me buckets of money to do it, so why not?

only one reason why not.............. I might beat you to retirement!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 02:40:20 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 06, 2021, 01:58:28 PM

If that’s what you got from my post you should be done FFS. 

read it carefully this time.  That is what I call an issue ver connected to the debate, but not the debate itself.

You ended it with "that is the debate", so that's how I got that from your post.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 02:44:53 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2021, 02:04:09 PM

So... education reform. Where to start?

The food.

Today, our students are 'enjoying' bagged sliders.  Two mini cheeseburgers of gas station-quality meat in a bag.  In AZ, I've seen chili fries check all the boxes for being a main entree.  Yes, ketchup has been considered a vegetable (I don't know how widespread or for how long and I'd like to think that's no longer a thing).

But we have one selfish rich prick selling crap food to another district-level selfish rich prick - neither of whom's kids attend public school, all to save 3 pennies per lunch.

It's criminal.  Feeding our children the cheapest possible garbage in order for a company to make a little more money.  Our priorities are ASKEW.

So we feed them like that and then they go home and eat hot cheetohs and Monster energy drink for dinner and we expect 13 years of that to produce spry, driven thinkers?  Mkay.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 06, 2021, 02:45:55 PM

do you eat the food?

Just curious

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 02:49:40 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 06, 2021, 02:45:55 PM

do you eat the food?

Just curious

I eat certain things.  I usually don't eat until I get home.  But if you asked all teachers at my school, easily fewer than 5-10% eat anything from the cafeteria.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 02:52:18 PM

This connects to the born on 3rd thing.  Yes, it's post-birth (longhorn), but simple nutrition.  On the Rez, I was all gung-ho for our best team in years to face a team from Sedona with a similar record.  And the veteran Rez coach just shook his head at me.
"We're playing a team of players who have had 3 square meals a day their whole lives."  

Oh.  
Yeah....they curb-stomped us.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2021, 03:02:58 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 02:44:53 PM

 Feeding our children the cheapest possible garbage in order for a company to make a little more money.  Our priorities are ASKEW.

What is the company that provides this "food"?  How much profit do they make off the lunches?  Is it in part that the lunches are really cheap?  A good portion of the cost of food service is fixed cost, labor, rent and utilities (if not provided of course, which schools generally do), taxes if applicable, spoilage, inventory, ...

Perhaps some company is not degrading the food quality to make more money, perhaps they just can't provide decent food at that price.  If you try and run a restaurant, you hope your bulk food costs are about 30% of menu pricing, maybe 35%.  I suppose it's easier to blame everything on some company somewhere, or wealthy folks, or someone else of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 03:59:26 PM

A bleeding heart for the dictators of industry.  Wow.

They throw their hands up, crying "we can't supply any better food" yet they manage to make enough money to continue existing.  Poor them.  

How about if we can't feed our children decent food, we fix the industry?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2021, 04:05:50 PM

I see you continue to mischaracterize my clear meaning because you apparently can't discuss the issue coherently with facts, so you make them up from nothing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2021, 04:14:15 PM

The only thing about changing foods available is that the kids don't want the food that is good for them.

I've seen it first hand with my kids, friends' kids, co-workers' kids. It's also been widely reported.

So, they eat crappy burgers and fries, or they eat nothing.

Better would be to offer healthy choices and see what sells. Better yet would be to have the kids make their own lunches with ingredients provided. 

Maybe a little "home economics" wouldn't hurt.

Is that even taught anymore?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2021, 04:29:41 PM

I would  think some decent sandwiches should be possible and reasonably healthy, turkey or something with lettuce and maters.  I eat sandwiches by choice fairly often.

I agree the food should be improved, I just am not sure of the holdup.  It's facile to blame some Big Corporation for everything.  And at times they are at fault.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 06, 2021, 04:31:51 PM

Ain't nothing wrong with school cafeteria food, I have no idea what y'all are talking about.

(https://i.imgur.com/rmB5KRD.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 06, 2021, 04:50:51 PM

https://youtu.be/d_KSLK2XwxY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 06, 2021, 04:53:44 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 06, 2021, 04:29:41 PM

I would  think some decent sandwiches should be possible and reasonably healthy, turkey or something with lettuce and maters.  I eat sandwiches by choice fairly often.

I agree the food should be improved, I just am not sure of the holdup.  It's facile to blame some Big Corporation for everything.  And at times they are at fault.

Okay, here's how this plays out. It's not "blame Big Corporation", it's not anything particularly nefarious. It's all covered by standard behavioral economic theory:

• The powers that be (school board, dept of education, health dept, whoever) comes up with a list of nutritional guidelines for the food that is served.
• As such, they obviously cannot say "you must serve these 5 meals on weekly rotation" because they'll be seen as meddlesome tyrants. Which they are, but they don't want to APPEAR that way. So you get guidelines basically stating caloric requirement, inclusion of certain food groups, etc. 
• This of course includes a significant amount of lobbying, such as how ketchup becomes classified as a vegetable. A good portion of that lobbying is probably from big corporations who know that if they get ketchup to be classified as a vegetable, they can satisfy the requirements at lower cost.
• The school districts need to figure out what food supplier to go with. To justify their bloated administrative budgets, they convene a 12-person panel that meets for weeks and weeks to write the request for proposal that is sent out to food suppliers, and then more weeks and weeks to select their supplier. Lots of money is spent by people who are going to sit around a conference room arguing, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
• The food suppliers know that they are going to have to be the low bidder or damn near it to even have a chance at getting the contract. So [having already lobbied the requirements to be flexible and cheap], they work out the crappiest food and the thinnest margins they can offer in order to make a healthy enough profit on the deal to be worth their while at all. They know they'll have predictable sales volume, so it's a low-risk endeavor to keep profits low, but they have to hit the cost targets to win the bid at all. 
• The school districts get the bids. They've already spent their budget on the salaries for the people who spent endless meetings discussing the bids, so they pick the lowest bidder.

Hence, you end up with crappy, cheap, unhealthy food. But it comes in within the budget for the school districts, who don't have extra money to pay for healthier options, and the kids suffer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2021, 04:56:57 PM

Yeah, that makes sense to me.  Spend money on administration instead of the product.

Our HS food in Cincy was "OK", I ate there a few times.  I thought it was reasonable for the price, which was very low.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2021, 05:03:56 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 06, 2021, 04:56:57 PM

Yeah, that makes sense to me.  Spend money on administration instead of the product.

Our HS food in Cincy was "OK", I ate there a few times.  I thought it was reasonable for the price, which was very low.

That's why I want to cancel as many administrators as possible. It's bloated.

In Chicago, there are 32K teachers and 6K administrators. Average teacher pay is around $70K and the average (do nothing) admin is payed around $150K.

That's $900 Million on administrators and $2.2 Billion on teachers.

There are 350K students.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 06, 2021, 05:23:21 PM

I went to HS so long ago they were actually cooking the food right there in the cafeteria 

and it wasnt bad as I remember

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 05:49:30 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 06, 2021, 04:53:44 PM

Okay, here's how this plays out. It's not "blame Big Corporation", it's not anything particularly nefarious. It's all covered by standard behavioral economic theory:

• The powers that be (school board, dept of education, health dept, whoever) comes up with a list of nutritional guidelines for the food that is served.
• As such, they obviously cannot say "you must serve these 5 meals on weekly rotation" because they'll be seen as meddlesome tyrants. Which they are, but they don't want to APPEAR that way. So you get guidelines basically stating caloric requirement, inclusion of certain food groups, etc.
• This of course includes a significant amount of lobbying, such as how ketchup becomes classified as a vegetable. A good portion of that lobbying is probably from big corporations who know that if they get ketchup to be classified as a vegetable, they can satisfy the requirements at lower cost.
• The school districts need to figure out what food supplier to go with. To justify their bloated administrative budgets, they convene a 12-person panel that meets for weeks and weeks to write the request for proposal that is sent out to food suppliers, and then more weeks and weeks to select their supplier. Lots of money is spent by people who are going to sit around a conference room arguing, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
• The food suppliers know that they are going to have to be the low bidder or damn near it to even have a chance at getting the contract. So [having already lobbied the requirements to be flexible and cheap], they work out the crappiest food and the thinnest margins they can offer in order to make a healthy enough profit on the deal to be worth their while at all. They know they'll have predictable sales volume, so it's a low-risk endeavor to keep profits low, but they have to hit the cost targets to win the bid at all.
• The school districts get the bids. They've already spent their budget on the salaries for the people who spent endless meetings discussing the bids, so they pick the lowest bidder.

Hence, you end up with crappy, cheap, unhealthy food. But it comes in within the budget for the school districts, who don't have extra money to pay for healthier options, and the kids suffer.

Right.  It's a race to the bottom. For food.  For kids.  In the "best country in the world."   

I feel like I arrive at the outcome and skip all of this typing, when we all know the typing, but for some reason many of you need it all typed out.  

When it comes to food at public schools, it's basically treated the same as prisons:  keep them alive.  Honestly.  
And when standards are put in place to require x-amount of this and y-amount of that, that's how you get chili fries counting as a main entree.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 05:51:44 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 06, 2021, 04:05:50 PM

I see you continue to mischaracterize my clear meaning because you apparently can't discuss the issue coherently with facts, so you make them up from nothing.

The facts are it's a broken system with those that don't have a voice suffering as a result.  That's a fact.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 06, 2021, 07:15:24 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 05:51:44 PM

The facts are it's a broken system with those that don't have a voice suffering as a result.  That's a fact. 

Have you ever heard of the Voice vs Exit idea? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exit,_Voice,_and_Loyalty

Kids don't have Voice in the debate, because the powers that be are government and teacher's unions, not parents. When you don't have voice, you need exit. And kids don't have Exit, because you're stuck with the school you're zoned for, and the cost to find a better one involves moving, often to someplace you can't afford because it's strange how property values tend to track with quality of school district, no?

This is the argument for school choice. If you have no exit, then nobody listens to your voice. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 01:55:51 AM

"School choice" as it's been labeled, is about one thing and one thing only - white flight.  

How is a school/district supposed to improve when their best/most concerned students/families leave?  


I'm also afraid teacher's unions are an antiquated boogeyman, too.  Over half the states are 'right to work' and don't have bloated, draconian teacher unions.  And it's hard for parents to have a voice in their local school if they're busy choosing another school.  I'm not even sure how we got to this, as I - a teacher - am advocating for better food for students.  
.
A school in a poor neighborhood isn't going to have parents advocating for quality school food because they're not providing quality food at home.  Because they're poor.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 07, 2021, 07:35:10 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 01:55:51 AM

"School choice" as it's been labeled, is about one thing and one thing only - white flight. 

How is a school/district supposed to improve when their best/most concerned students/families leave? 


I'm also afraid teacher's unions are an antiquated boogeyman, too.  Over half the states are 'right to work' and don't have bloated, draconian teacher unions.  And it's hard for parents to have a voice in their local school if they're busy choosing another school.  I'm not even sure how we got to this, as I - a teacher - am advocating for better food for students. 
.
A school in a poor neighborhood isn't going to have parents advocating for quality school food because they're not providing quality food at home.  Because they're poor. 

So, your major complaint about the educational system in the United States, is the quality of the food? You see no other problems?

When my kids were in school (not terribly long ago by the way), we would get a calendar from the cafeteria every month that detailed what would be served on that day. Therefore, my kids knew what they could expect if they ate the school lunch that day. That gave them an option, eat what the cafeteria was serving or bring their own lunch. My wife and I would be sure that we had food choices at home that were transportable and available for their lunch. So if they didn't care for the school lunch, they could take something else that appealed to them.

This is called Personal Responsibility. My wife and I were responsible for ensuring that our kids had nutritious food for lunch and the kids were responsible for determining which lunch they preferred on a daily basis.  We didn't leave that decision up to some school administrator or other government agency, we handled it ourselves. Perhaps if more parents did the same, food wouldn't be an issue at schools. 

This is were you start lambasting me because we actually work to ensure our children have what they need to grow up healthy. We sure do. We also waited to have children until after we married and got ourselves into a financial situation where that would not be an issue. I suggest that others approach parenthood in a similar fashion as it is a HUGE responsibility to bring a child into this world and care for them. Too many people these days don't share that opinion. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 07, 2021, 07:56:57 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 07, 2021, 07:35:10 AM

So, your major complaint about the educational system in the United States, is the quality of the food? You see no other problems?

When my kids were in school (not terribly long ago by the way), we would get a calendar from the cafeteria every month that detailed what would be served on that day. Therefore, my kids knew what they could expect if they ate the school lunch that day. That gave them an option, eat what the cafeteria was serving or bring their own lunch. My wife and I would be sure that we had food choices at home that were transportable and available for their lunch. So if they didn't care for the school lunch, they could take something else that appealed to them.

This is called Personal Responsibility. My wife and I were responsible for ensuring that our kids had nutritious food for lunch and the kids were responsible for determining which lunch they preferred on a daily basis.  We didn't leave that decision up to some school administrator or other government agency, we handled it ourselves. Perhaps if more parents did the same, food wouldn't be an issue at schools.

This is were you start lambasting me because we actually work to ensure our children have what they need to grow up healthy. We sure do. We also waited to have children until after we married and got ourselves into a financial situation where that would not be an issue. I suggest that others approach parenthood in a similar fashion as it is a HUGE responsibility to bring a child into this world and care for them. Too many people these days don't share that opinion.

This👍👍

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 09:35:26 AM

I'm all for improving food quality in schools, I just am not sure how best to achieve it.  Blaming some corporation is facile.  The school board, or someone, chooses who gets the contract.  I was friends with the head of our school board for a while, he told me they had to spend a large sum on filling out forms to get monies from the Doed and he was uncertain whether it paid off in the end, it was about 7% of funding.

This is why they  had so many "administrators", one reason anyway.  This was a "good school system", well funded, they spent over $15 K per student, and it was majority black.  

I understand why some folks jump  to blaming X or Y for some problem, it's a political driven conclusion, the same is true for other issues like climate change, as I have noted.  Reading up on such an issue is "difficult".  Forming your own opinions is far harder than just parroting whatever your "leader" tells you is true.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 09:50:47 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 09:35:26 AM

  Forming your own opinions is far harder than just parroting whatever your "leader" tells you is true.

Who is the leader telling me what's true about the broken BUSINESS of school lunches?  I bet it's Hillary, right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 09:51:52 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 07, 2021, 07:35:10 AM

So, your major complaint about the educational system in the United States, is the quality of the food? You see no other problems?

How in the holy hell did you.........nevermind, having an actual conversation here is an utter waste of time.....sigh.....here, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and guess that you're messing with me and that your post wasn't genuine.  Because I should respect people (including you) enough to avoid coming to the conclusion that you're genuinely asking that I see no other problems.  


I cannot believe I have to type that out.  Some of you are excruciating to interact with.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 10:07:59 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 09:50:47 AM

Who is the leader telling me what's true about the broken BUSINESS of school lunches?  I bet it's Hillary, right?

I asked you some simple questions about who this evil corporation is that provides your lunches and you went off one some rant about how I was defending corporations.  The repeated shallowness of your "analyses" is rather striking, to me, you refuse to scratch the surface, it's always the fault of someone else.

I think everyone here AGREES that it would be great to improve food in school cafeterias,  some of us want to discuss why that is and what could be done to remedy it instead of just blaming something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 10:27:04 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 10:07:59 AM

I asked you some simple questions about who this evil corporation is that provides your lunches and you went off one some rant about how I was defending corporations.  The repeated shallowness of your "analyses" is rather striking, to me, you refuse to scratch the surface, it's always the fault of someone else.

You're right, it's my fault.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 07, 2021, 10:28:45 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 10:07:59 AM

I asked you some simple questions about who this evil corporation is that provides your lunches and you went off one some rant about how I was defending corporations.  

CD don't bother there is more than one of him in there and they appear to be fighting

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 10:31:10 AM

It is fascinating to me to see someone so resistant to engaging in an actual discussion of a topic without distortion and distractions and hyperbole.

I generally enjoy discussing issues and problems and wondering what causes the problem.  That's how I learn things from others.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 10:47:06 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2021, 02:44:53 PM

But we have one selfish rich prick selling crap food to another district-level selfish rich prick - neither of whom's kids attend public school, all to save 3 pennies per lunch.

If this selfish rich prick a person with a name, or a corporation with a name?  Is he really interested personally in saving 3 cents per lunch?

Would the problem be solved, partially at least, but contracting with some other outfit?

Are there any nonprofits engaged in this business?  I don't know if saving 3 cents per meal helps much, but it's a start.  Do you think the food could be improved if that 3 cents per meal disappeared?  I presume a lunch costs, say, $2 or so, right?  If that 3 cents went to better quality food, so you think it would matter much?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 07, 2021, 10:50:02 AM

It always seems to come down to personal responsibility.   Those kids growing up in homes where the parents consider themselves victims don't have much of a chance.  Those kids in homes where the kids are taught to take what you've got and run? They do.  

That same ailment covers a lot of subjects outside of education, too.  

Don't misconstrue - victims are real.  It's what victims do next that defines their character.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 07, 2021, 10:55:28 AM

I'm pretty sure we beat the issue of school lunches to death a few months ago

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 07, 2021, 10:56:43 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 07, 2021, 10:55:28 AM

I'm pretty sure we beat the issue of school lunches to death a few months ago

Beating a dead horse is also how the school sloppy joes are made

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 07, 2021, 10:59:55 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 07, 2021, 10:55:28 AM

I'm pretty sure we beat the issue of school lunches to death a few months ago

Need to come up with solutions.

I would propose kids preparing their own lunches, with provided ingredients. Not only will they choose what they eat, but they will develop a skill on how to prepare it.

You can teach a kid a recipe. But, if you teach a kid a technique, you've taught the kid 100 recipes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 11:01:00 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 10:47:06 AM

If this selfish rich prick a person with a name, or a corporation with a name?  Is he really interested personally in saving 3 cents per lunch?

Would the problem be solved, partially at least, but contracting with some other outfit?

Are there any nonprofits engaged in this business?  I don't know if saving 3 cents per meal helps much, but it's a start.  Do you think the food could be improved if that 3 cents per meal disappeared?  I presume a lunch costs, say, $2 or so, right?  If that 3 cents went to better quality food, so you think it would matter much?

According to the Supreme Court when it comes to campaign donations, corporations are people, so differentiating them is unnecessary, right?  Anyway, getting past that sour grape, here's a thing:

Since the 1970s, Big Food has colonized the school cafeteria. From signing lucrative food service contracts to promoting their corporate brands and dishing out chicken nuggets and other mass-produced, heat-and-serve items, the food industry has done quite well for itself by selling goods and services to schools across the United States, including the 95% of public schools that participate in the government-subsidized National School Lunch Program (https://fns-prod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/resource-files/NSLPFactSheet.pdf) (NSLP).  

In recent years, Big Food companies — and their industry associations — have spent millions of dollars lobbying the federal government to weaken or change its nutritional standards, and these efforts have paid off handsomely. It happened in 2014, when the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) caved to industry pressure (https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/12/magazine/how-school-lunch-became-the-latest-political-battleground.html) and made it easier for schools to serve French fries and pizza. It happened in 2018, when the USDA loosened restrictions (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/08/us/trump-school-lunch-usda.html?action=click&module=RelatedCoverage&pgtype=Article&region=Footer) on the amount of sodium, flavored milk, and refined grains that could be served in school meals. And it is happening again with the Trump administration’s latest proposal (https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/01/17/usda-proposes-changing-school-menus-allow-more-fries-pizza-fewer-vegetables-fruits-reversing-michelle-obama-effort/) to make the rules more “flexible” (as Thompson, 2020, recently described in these pages). 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 07, 2021, 11:01:48 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 05, 2021, 12:29:13 PM

Swine flu was nowhere near as deadly. If it was, the response would have been different.

Swine flu was actually a lot deadlier from what I recall. Just not as easily transmissible. There's a difference.

COVID is actually all things considered- not that deadly. It is however contagious like a motherfker.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 11:04:42 AM

I apologize for the slanted language of "big food" and "lobbying" as those are invented fantasies of the far left agenda. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 11:05:38 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 07, 2021, 11:01:48 AM

Swine flu was actually a lot deadlier from what I recall. Just not as easily transmissible. There's a difference.

COVID is actually all things considered- not that deadly. It is however contagious like a motherfker.

this was mdot's post that may have been missed on the previous page.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 07, 2021, 11:05:48 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 11:01:00 AM

According to the Supreme Court when it comes to campaign donations, corporations are people, so differentiating them is unnecessary, right?  Anyway, getting past that sour grape, here's a thing:

Since the 1970s, Big Food has colonized the school cafeteria. From signing lucrative food service contracts to promoting their corporate brands and dishing out chicken nuggets and other mass-produced, heat-and-serve items, the food industry has done quite well for itself by selling goods and services to schools across the United States, including the 95% of public schools that participate in the government-subsidized National School Lunch Program (https://fns-prod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/resource-files/NSLPFactSheet.pdf) (NSLP). 

In recent years, Big Food companies — and their industry associations — have spent millions of dollars lobbying the federal government to weaken or change its nutritional standards, and these efforts have paid off handsomely. It happened in 2014, when the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) caved to industry pressure (https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/12/magazine/how-school-lunch-became-the-latest-political-battleground.html) and made it easier for schools to serve French fries and pizza. It happened in 2018, when the USDA loosened restrictions (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/08/us/trump-school-lunch-usda.html?action=click&module=RelatedCoverage&pgtype=Article&region=Footer) on the amount of sodium, flavored milk, and refined grains that could be served in school meals. And it is happening again with the Trump administration’s latest proposal (https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/01/17/usda-proposes-changing-school-menus-allow-more-fries-pizza-fewer-vegetables-fruits-reversing-michelle-obama-effort/) to make the rules more “flexible” (as Thompson, 2020, recently described in these pages).

the egg lobby is not amused 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 07, 2021, 11:06:16 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 11:05:38 AM

this was mdot's post that may have been missed on the previous page.

thanks for that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 07, 2021, 11:07:15 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 05, 2021, 04:59:45 PM

The mortality rate of H1N1--while highly infectious--was miniscule. They estimate there were 60M cases in the US, and only 12-13K deaths. It was significantly less fatal than the flu, which is why all the concern and media uproar died down so quickly.

COVID-19 was highly infectious and significantly higher mortality than the flu, which coupled with the fact that it was novel, meant that the impact would be orders of magnitude higher. We didn't have solid numbers (still don't), but much of the estimates are somewhere between 0.5% and 1% mortality, probably on the lower end of that range. That means it's ~5x higher mortality than seasonal flu, we didn't have a vaccine for it, and we had no natural immunity. That's a bad combination...

H1N1 never would have resulted in the lockdowns, because H1N1 was a completely different beast. As for difference in media attention? I'll readily admit that the media made this about Trump and his response; ever since he announced his candidacy, everything in the United States has been about Trump. But the entire media effort would have fizzled out in a month if this thing was anything like H1N1.
Looking into it further, I can give Trump some credit on this. Apparently the big contracts where the gov't agreed in advance to buy millions of doses of the vaccines if they were successful appear to be an executive branch action.

Not to say another President or administration wouldn't have done the same, but I'll call a spade a spade on this one. Kudos to him and his administration for doing it.

Well I was wrong! Lol. Thanks for clearing that up.

I still feel like corona was the most overblown thing of all-time. I'd hate to see what happens to us when something actually species threatening happens.

And the media sucks. They went after Trump 24/7, all while fellating Andrew Cuomo 24/7. Turns out Governor Nipple Rings wasn't all they cracked him out to be.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 07, 2021, 11:13:41 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 03, 2021, 11:00:49 AM

Nah. Every journalist is impartial.

Absolutely. Did you catch that hit piece 60 Minutes tried to run on Governor DeSantis? Blew up in their freaking faces. Both the Democratic Mayor of Palm Beach County and the head of the Florida Division of Emergency Management- another Democrat- publicly bashed 60 Minutes and said the entire story was complete bullshit- their actual words- not mine. And then the entire video of DeSantis' press conference just came out- and showed 60 Minutes edited the FK out of the video and completely distorted DeSantis' response. It was such an egregious attempt at misinformation- that reporter who works for CBS and the editor on that story should both be fired- and CBS should be fined heavily by the FCC.

At the very beginning of the entire crisis- media tried to make DeSantis out to be the worst governor in the country handling the crisis while fellating Nipple Rings Sex Predator Cuomo and Michelin French Laundry Douche Newsome out to be heroes. Whoops. Turns out DeSantis has done a way better job than either of those corrupt pieces of shits in NY and CA. When that failed- they just tried to run a hit piece on him that blew up in their faces- and now the guy is more popular in Florida and across the country than ever. LOL.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 07, 2021, 11:14:04 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 01:55:51 AM

"School choice" as it's been labeled, is about one thing and one thing only - white flight. 

How is a school/district supposed to improve when their best/most concerned students/families leave? 


I'm also afraid teacher's unions are an antiquated boogeyman, too.  Over half the states are 'right to work' and don't have bloated, draconian teacher unions.  And it's hard for parents to have a voice in their local school if they're busy choosing another school.  I'm not even sure how we got to this, as I - a teacher - am advocating for better food for students. 
.
A school in a poor neighborhood isn't going to have parents advocating for quality school food because they're not providing quality food at home.  Because they're poor. 

Dude... White flight already happened. They moved out to the 'burbs where property values are higher and school systems are better. 

School systems in the poor neighborhoods suck. In many of them, per-student funding is quite healthy (albeit spent on the wrong things, i.e. bloated administrations). How are we supposed to solve the problem of those school districts? Throw more money at it? 

We need reform, and it's not going to happen when the "customers" are legally required to go to school, and cannot afford to go to private schools or move out of the poor neighborhoods, so they're captives to the system. 

I'm probably not going to make you a school choice believer... I'm fine with that.

What's your solution?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 07, 2021, 11:16:20 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 07, 2021, 11:01:48 AM

Swine flu was actually a lot deadlier from what I recall. Just not as easily transmissible. There's a difference.

COVID is actually all things considered- not that deadly. It is however contagious like a motherfker.

I see you responded already, but I think you're confusing swine flu (H1N1) with other things. 

I believe the original SARS was more deadly, but not as transmissible. The same is true with MERS, I believe, but I'm less familiar with that one. 

But H1N1 was both highly transmissible and relatively benign, which is why it didn't merit responses anywhere near COVID, which is highly transmissible and significantly more deadly than the flu. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 07, 2021, 11:16:41 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2021, 05:03:56 PM

That's why I want to cancel as many administrators as possible. It's bloated.

In Chicago, there are 32K teachers and 6K administrators. Average teacher pay is around $70K and the average (do nothing) admin is payed around $150K.

That's $900 Million on administrators and $2.2 Billion on teachers.

There are 350K students.

Solutions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 07, 2021, 11:17:19 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2021, 02:04:09 PM

So... education reform. Where to start?

Abolishing the Federal Department of Education would be a place to start. It's a useless entity and a waste of money.

Next, work on curricula.

No more teacher unions. Reduce administrative staff. Consolidate school districts.

All of that will increase the amount of money that goes to students, and to teachers.


As of July 1, 2018, there were 852 public school districts: 368 elementary districts, 97 high school districts, 386 unit districts, and one Illinois Department of Juvenile Justice (https://www.bing.com/search?q=Illinois+Department+of+Juvenile+Justice&filters=sid%3aa9d27c79-9083-9989-cbc7-75b4d99c5fd4&form=ENTLNK) district.


This is a ridiculous number of tax-funded entities. Many of these school districts have only ONE school!!

Florida has 75 school districs.

Solutions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 07, 2021, 11:19:41 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 07, 2021, 11:13:41 AM

Absolutely. Did you catch that hit piece 60 Minutes tried to run on Governor DeSantis? Blew up in their freaking faces. Both the Democratic Mayor of Palm Beach County and the head of the Florida Division of Emergency Management- another Democrat- publicly bashed 60 Minutes and said the entire story was complete bullshit- their actual words- not mine. And then the entire video of DeSantis' press conference just came out- and showed 60 Minutes edited the FK out of the video and completely distorted DeSantis' response. It was such an egregious attempt at misinformation- that reporter who works for CBS and the editor on that story should both be fired- and CBS should be fined heavily by the FCC.

At the very beginning of the entire crisis- media tried to make DeSantis out to be the worst governor in the country handling the crisis while fellating Nipple Rings Sex Predator Cuomo and Michelin French Laundry Douche Newsome out to be heroes. Whoops. Turns out DeSantis has done a way better job than either of those corrupt pieces of shits in NY and CA. When that failed- they just tried to run a hit piece on him that blew up in their faces- and now the guy is more popular in Florida and across the country than ever. LOL.

Yes.  I saw that entire thing. Completely made up.  And they got caught. 

don’t forget the media love for Governor Witless in Michigan, now the US epicenter for covid 19.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 11:21:56 AM

I personally don't see how COVID was overblown at all.  I see that some of the steps taken were inefficient and ineffective, but a year ago we knew little about the disease and its transmission.

Half a million additional deaths when we would normally have had 2.9 million TOTAL is a huge increase.

It hit Europe hard also, and Brazil and a few other places, not as much Africa though the data there may be suspect.  (Is).

I hear some folks who once said everything was being done properly now claiming it wasn't, but I take that as political pandering.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 07, 2021, 11:22:48 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 07, 2021, 11:16:20 AM

I see you responded already, but I think you're confusing swine flu (H1N1) with other things.

I believe the original SARS was more deadly, but not as transmissible. The same is true with MERS, I believe, but I'm less familiar with that one.

But H1N1 was both highly transmissible and relatively benign, which is why it didn't merit responses anywhere near COVID, which is highly transmissible and significantly more deadly than the flu.

yeah, i didn't read through all the pages I missed been busy, but then I read your other post on the next page and cleared that up. that's the thing with this board- learn shit all the time. 

COVID is worse than the flu- but it was being billed as something that was going to kill us all. Turns out- it's not really that dangerous. It's far more dangerous for the elderly and the obese. I believe that the CDC reported 50+% of all COVID deaths were from nursing homes- most of these people are on deaths doorstep as is- and 78% of all COVID hospitalizations in the US were obese people. 

Want to fix health in the US? A great start would be rethinking our entire food system. Getting rid of soda and getting rid of fast food. Will that ever happen? No. But it would help a lot. We have the fattest population in the world and the most garbage food in the world. You don't see too many absolute cows in Europe. Italians drink olive oil by the gallon and French people eat 10 sticks of butter a day and they aren't obese- and oh yeah their food shits all over our food. Makes you think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 07, 2021, 11:25:47 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 07, 2021, 11:19:41 AM

Yes.  I saw that entire thing. Completely made up.  And they got caught. 

don’t forget the media love for Governor Witless in Michigan, now the US epicenter for covid 19.

Michigan is dying because of her. I still have a lot of family and friends there- some have moved south or west and the ones that are still there absolutely hate her. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 11:27:59 AM

The main things I see different about food in France is:

1.  Fresh ingredients, and
2.  Prepared on the spot.

People shop daily for food, frozen items and preprepared items are available, but eaten less often than here.  (They also walk a lot, and many younger females smoke to maintain weight, it's notable.)

I've tried to move more to "real cooking" at home, with simple ingredients bought recently.  It's more time consuming than heating up a frozen pizza of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 07, 2021, 11:34:23 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 11:27:59 AM

The main things I see different about food in France is:

1.  Fresh ingredients, and
2.  Prepared on the spot.

People shop daily for food, frozen items and preprepared items are available, but eaten less often than here.  (They also walk a lot, and many younger females smoke to maintain weight, it's notable.)

I've tried to move more to "real cooking" at home, with simple ingredients bought recently.  It's more time consuming than heating up a frozen pizza of course.

They also don't have:

1) Fast Food on every block on every street - absolute garbage that is slowly killing people. they barely have these places. we have them every freaking where.
2) HFC - your body cannot break this crap down. it's in literally everything here. it's banned in europe. they use you know- actual sugar.

And oh yeah the EU bans I believe like 50+ food additives or pesticides that are allowed to be used in US by FDA/EPA. They are A LOT more strict with their food supply.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 11:41:19 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 07, 2021, 11:34:23 AM

They also don't have:

1) Fast Food on every block on every street - absolute garbage that is slowly killing people. they barely have these places. we have them every freaking where.
2) HFC - your body cannot break this crap down. it's in literally everything here. it's banned in europe. they use you know- actual sugar.

And oh yeah the EU bans I believe like 50+ food additives or pesticides that are allowed to be used in US by FDA/EPA. They are A LOT more strict with their food supply.

HFC is readily metabolized in our bodies.  It's composition is close to that of table sugar.  (I think we have issues with fructose but that exists in table sugar as well at the same levels as in HFC.)  It is not banned in Europe.  It once was limited to protect their sugar industry, not for health reasons.

And there are fast food joints all over Paris.


In the European Union (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union) (EU), HFCS is known as isoglucose or glucose-fructose syrup (GFS) which has 20–30% fructose content compared to 42% (HFCS 42) and 55% (HFCS 55) in the United States.^{[22] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-fructose_corn_syrup#cite_note-:1-22)} While HFCS is produced exclusively with corn in the US, manufacturers in the EU use corn and wheat to produce GFS.^{[22] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-fructose_corn_syrup#cite_note-:1-22)[23] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-fructose_corn_syrup#cite_note-:2-23)} GFS was once subject to a sugar production quota, which was abolished on 1 October 2017, removing the previous production cap of 720,000 tonnes, and allowing production and export without restriction.^{[23] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-fructose_corn_syrup#cite_note-:2-23)} Use of GFS in soft drinks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_drink) is limited in the EU because manufacturers do not have a sufficient supply of GFS containing at least 42% fructose content. As a result, soft drinks are primarily sweetened by sucrose which has a 50% fructose content.^{[24] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-fructose_corn_syrup#cite_note-24)}

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 11:48:04 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 07, 2021, 11:14:04 AM

Dude... White flight already happened. They moved out to the 'burbs where property values are higher and school systems are better.

School systems in the poor neighborhoods suck. In many of them, per-student funding is quite healthy (albeit spent on the wrong things, i.e. bloated administrations). How are we supposed to solve the problem of those school districts? Throw more money at it?

We need reform, and it's not going to happen when the "customers" are legally required to go to school, and cannot afford to go to private schools or move out of the poor neighborhoods, so they're captives to the system.

I'm probably not going to make you a school choice believer... I'm fine with that.

What's your solution?

I know 'white flight' is taught as a one-use term to describe the specific era you shared, but it's not just that - it's continuous and occurs in nearly every portion of our society.  All this damn integration has run amok and cities are somewhat checkerboards when it comes to neighborhood quality.  It's so sad that every elite neighborhood can't buffer itself with an upper middle class neighborhood, away from the poor kids.  
So it's another white flight from mostly-nice public schools to charter schools (money-making bonanzas) and private schools - both of which have somehow (guess which party helps) extracted public funds.  

So what's the solution?
Well, the solution is NOT to siphon money from public schools to give to charters and privates.
The solution is NOT for the best students and most involved families to ditch their public schools....if that happens, then there is no solution.  

An actual "fix" of our school system would require a total reset, based on what's best for the students.  Not what's easiest to test them, not what's going to avoid hurting feelings, etc.
Teachers are tasked with being given a bell curve of students and told to make them all average or better.  It's absurd.  
Grade levels aren't a problem, but having annual cohorts and 95% of them marching along to the next grade year by year is a clown fantasy come to life.  There are MANY 8 year olds that should still be in kindergarten.  There are MANY 8 year olds ready for middle school content.  We're more worried about the social stigma of holding kids back or promoting them too quickly, based on their knowledge/ability level.  Except that that pales in comparison to these students not being at the correct level even more (imo).  

We could fill 1000 forum pages on this, but there needs to be a paradigm shift of epic proportions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 11:48:47 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 07, 2021, 11:34:23 AM

They also don't have:

1) Fast Food on every block on every street - absolute garbage that is slowly killing people. they barely have these places. we have them every freaking where.
2) HFC - your body cannot break this crap down. it's in literally everything here. it's banned in europe. they use you know- actual sugar.

And oh yeah the EU bans I believe like 50+ food additives or pesticides that are allowed to be used in US by FDA/EPA. They are A LOT more strict with their food supply.

Betcha a dollar they have nothing like our lobbyists.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 07, 2021, 11:52:08 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 11:48:04 AM

Grade levels aren't a problem, but having annual cohorts and 95% of them marching along to the next grade year by year is a clown fantasy come to life.  There are MANY 8 year olds that should still be in kindergarten.  There are MANY 8 year olds ready for middle school content.  We're more worried about the social stigma of holding kids back or promoting them too quickly, based on their knowledge/ability level.  Except that that pales in comparison to these students not being at the correct level even more (imo). 

I was going to bring up this very thing next.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 11:52:32 AM

847, I love your idea of having food available and they throw together what they want.  I'd honestly just have a sandwich/wrap bar, a mexican food bar (similar to the sandwich bar, honestly), and then all the veggies and fruits under the sun.  

Not a starches section, not a ton of meat.  Let their crap intake occur at home.  Maybe they get one portion from either of the 2 entree bars, but can eat all they want from the plants bar.  

Heart disease deaths might magically decline in 40-50 years, right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 07, 2021, 11:55:28 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 07, 2021, 11:22:48 AM

COVID is worse than the flu- but it was being billed as something that was going to kill us all. Turns out- it's not really that dangerous. It's far more dangerous for the elderly and the obese. I believe that the CDC reported 50+% of all COVID deaths were from nursing homes- most of these people are on deaths doorstep as is- and 78% of all COVID hospitalizations in the US were obese people.

Well, if you dig into the statistics, it's also much more deadly for the young and healthy than the flu is, but again tripling a very tiny mortality rate for one category--the flu is almost never deadly for that group--is still a very tiny mortaility rate.

There's also the concern about long-term effects. There are a lot of stories about people stuck with long-term fatigue, cardiac issues, lung issues. I don't know the actual numbers and I don't know if those are expected to clear up with more time, but it's one of the reasons I was gung-ho about getting the vaccine... Despite being young and healthy enough that I'm highly unlikely to die from COVID, the potential long-term effects could still hit me.

Quote

Want to fix health in the US? A great start would be rethinking our entire food system. Getting rid of soda and getting rid of fast food. Will that ever happen? No. But it would help a lot. We have the fattest population in the world and the most garbage food in the world. You don't see too many absolute cows in Europe. Italians drink olive oil by the gallon and French people eat 10 sticks of butter a day and they aren't obese- and oh yeah their food shits all over our food. Makes you think.

Agreed... I think it's cultural. I think America, particularly post-WWII, was a land of excess. "Bigger is better", as you could see in our cars of the era. That applied to food--restaurants competed on portion size rather than quality. And having an extreme car-driven culture also led to more and more fast food.

I do believe that there is starting to be a difference, but similar to OAM's point, that change is occurring at the higher income brackets rather than the lower, leading to even more disparity between rich and poor in health outcomes. I think it'll take a generation at least before it starts to filter down, much like child names--the rich people make a new name popular, then 10 years later it's a middle class name, then 10 years later it's a poor kid's name.

At least I hope it'll filter down. The country needs to remake its food culture to be more healthful.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 11:58:48 AM

Outsourcing K-12 food service programs to private management companies has a controversial history. 
For decades, the practice was outlawed: When the National School Lunch Act was passed in 1946, school food program directors — many of them trained in home economics or dietetics—persuaded Congress that for-profit operators had no place in the not-for-profit world of the federal lunch program. From survey research conducted in the 1920s and 1930s, they knew that commercial vendors tended to encourage children to purchase sugary and salty items (e.g., candies, cakes, soda pop, and pickles) because these unhealthy items were more profitable to sell. 

In the late 1960s, however, millions of poor students became eligible for free school lunch, which meant that district administrators, particularly in large urban systems, faced a sudden demand to scale up their school meal programs. Lacking resources to build new kitchen and cafeteria facilities, many of them looked to the private sector for solutions. Facing intense pressure also from the National Restaurant Association, a powerful trade lobby representing the food service industry (and often referred to by food justice advocates as “the other NRA (https://chapters.rocunited.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/StopTheNRA_2017_Report_W.pdf)”), the USDA then decided, in 1970, to lift its restriction on for-profit providers. 

The commercialization of the school lunch program ramped up quickly over the subsequent years. For districts looking for a quick and cheap way to feed lots of students, the easiest option was to outsource the daily work of preparing meals to a frozen food manufacturer and/or to hire a FSMC to run the lunch program, freeing the schools from the administrative burden.  

During the 1980s, the Reagan administration pushed schools even further down this path by slashing the federal school lunch program’s budget by 25%. Since then, it has only become more and more common for districts to turn their cafeterias over to private corporations such as Aramark, Chartwells, and Sodexo (the “big three” FSMCs), in the hope that this will allow their food service departments to break even.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 12:01:42 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 11:48:47 AM

Betcha a dollar they have nothing like our lobbyists. 

They do indeed, and his two examples are both false, so there is that.

Their initial HFC "ban" was to protect their sugar industry.  Their bans on things like GMO are also to protect their industries.  I could go on for a long time, Europe has many trade restrictions with the US due to their industry lobbyists and farmers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 12:02:05 PM

The shitty US diet can be blamed on many things, but mostly one big one:  advertising.  We have largely been raised on TV and commercials and bright colors and toys in the box and on and on and on.  We eat what we grew up eating, by and large.  We like food that can be stored for awhile.  We like food that is salty and sweet.  Advertisers prey on us endlessly.  

Take all of the Cheez-It ads you've ever been exposed to and compare it to all of the cabbage ads you've seen.  It's not close, it's total.  A total discrepancy.  And with online now being the #1 thing in kid's lives, all the ads there do the same as TV ads used to.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 12:04:40 PM

In the US, by and large poorer people are more often obese, and thinner folks are more often upper class on income etc.

It's a reversal since say 1900.

'Fast food" including the frozen items at Kroger are prevalent, as are snacks, candies, ...

One thing I did as a parent was to have zero chips and salted snacks and candy items.  They got one day after Halloween (which I hated) and all the candy disappeared.

I did order pizza too often.

I'm not sure eliminating a 3 cent profit on a $2 lunch changes the quality much.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 12:06:53 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 12:02:05 PM

The shitty US diet can be blamed on many things, but mostly one big one:  advertising.  

I would primarily blame convenience and cost.  We can't do much of anything about advertising.

When I stand in line at Kroger, I idly inspect what folks buy ahead of me, it's often heavily convenience and cost oriented.

We're lazy.  The average number of hours we watch TV a day is astounding to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 07, 2021, 12:12:22 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 11:48:04 AM

An actual "fix" of our school system would require a total reset, based on what's best for the students.  Not what's easiest to test them, not what's going to avoid hurting feelings, etc.

We could fill 1000 forum pages on this, but there needs to be a paradigm shift of epic proportions.

If that's true, then it's either time to throw up our hands completely because the entire power structure won't allow a paradigm shift of epic proportions, or we should determine incremental steps that, when you slowly implement them all, will get you where you need to go.

It's the offseason. We've got 1000 pages.

I'd like to hear a few more concrete initial steps, and how to "sell" them to the public and the powers that be to get it started. That would be quite interesting offseason chatter IMHO.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 07, 2021, 12:15:45 PM

When people shop, they should shop the perimeter of the store. That's where most of the best food is.

Interior for things like flour, stocks, pastas, etc. Stay out of the rest of the aisles.

ALWAYS have a list.

**************

I don't know if this is a thing everywhere, but in Kenosha last summer I was in line and a lady was using some sort of a government card to buy food. The checkout lady had to set about 8 things aside, as her card would not allow the purchase.

Kraft Mac N' Cheese, some fruit snacks, pop, frozen treats, frosted flakes. 

Has anyone else ever seen that?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 12:17:47 PM

The US spends more on K-12 per student than any other major industrialized country.  That alone says we're doing it badly, and there are many reasons, some of which badge has suggested to change.  (I don't think we could do away with unions practicably.)

Europe, as I note often, streams kids HARD and early, you can make it up later, but by 7th grade, you can find yourself not able to attend college.  They focus on the college kids with college prep and direct the others into trades etc.  I don't think the US would allow that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 07, 2021, 12:19:40 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 12:02:05 PM

The shitty US diet can be blamed on many things, but mostly one big one:  advertising.  We have largely been raised on TV and commercials and bright colors and toys in the box and on and on and on.  We eat what we grew up eating, by and large.  We like food that can be stored for awhile.  We like food that is salty and sweet.  Advertisers prey on us endlessly. 

Take all of the Cheez-It ads you've ever been exposed to and compare it to all of the cabbage ads you've seen.  It's not close, it's total.  A total discrepancy.  And with online now being the #1 thing in kid's lives, all the ads there do the same as TV ads used to. 

Do you think they have less advertising in Europe and Asia? Or that in those regions, that advertising of unhealthy food is forbidden or limited? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 12:20:22 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 07, 2021, 12:15:45 PM

I don't know if this is a thing everywhere, but in Kenosha last summer I was in line and a lady was using some sort of a government card to buy food. The checkout lady had to set about 8 things aside, as her card would not allow the purchase.

Kraft Mac N' Cheese, some fruit snacks, pop, frozen treats, frosted flakes.

Has anyone else ever seen that?

Yeah, it's Federal, SNAP has limits on what can be bought.  I go to Walmart twice a month and I see folks using their SNAP card in line, if I stand in line at all.

They often have two "carts", one they pay with SNAP and the other they pay with a credit card of their own.  At times, the cashier rings it all up and then says you can't pay for this and this with SNAP.

I nearly always go very early so there is no line or I use self checkout.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 12:21:01 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 07, 2021, 12:19:40 PM

Do you think they have less advertising in Europe and Asia? Or that in those regions, that advertising of unhealthy food is forbidden or limited?

They usually have fewer channels in France anyway, and some have no ads.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 07, 2021, 12:26:12 PM

convenience

folks buying most everything they eat at mcdonalds or 7/11

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 07, 2021, 12:30:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 11:27:59 AM

I've tried to move more to "real cooking" at home, with simple ingredients bought recently.  It's more time consuming than heating up a frozen pizza of course.

I think this is important.

Cooking at home can be much more cost-effective than eating out. It's usually not, the way I do it, but it can be lol...

Again this is something that I think is cultural, and has a "trickle down" effect from rich to poor. Go back a few generations and cooking at home was just the standard. People started making more money, and there was a status symbol effect to eating at restaurants. People did it because it was more expensive and more "fancy". And as the poorer folks started to increase their wealth, they followed suit as much as they could afford to be like the rich people.

We're seeing this change. It has become fashionable for wealthier people to cook. What we took for granted two generations ago [mom in the kitchen, dad on the grill] and then lost, has again become a thing. Heck, you can all even see it with me--I'm not likely to take a picture and post on IG something I order at a restaurant, but I'll do it with something I cooked myself that I'm proud of. I suspect COVID and the lockdowns will accelerate this as well, as a lot of people who didn't cook suddenly were forced to; hopefully many learned they enjoy it. But again, it might require the same sort of cultural trickle-down effect before it becomes fashionable for someone with less money to cook at home rather than flaunt it by eating out at a restaurant.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 07, 2021, 12:48:03 PM

What type of Laptop Computer is the best bang for your buck? 

I don't need all the bells and whistles that double the price, but I don't want some cheap piece of junk either. 

Dells seem to work great up until a certain point, at which time everything just kinda goes to Hell all at once. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 07, 2021, 12:58:45 PM

convenience

it's more convenient to not have a job

it's more convenient to not cook

it's more convenient to not parent your children

it's more convenient to let the government worry about your children

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 01:03:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 12:04:40 PM

I'm not sure eliminating a 3 cent profit on a $2 lunch changes the quality much.

You know this - sacrificing quality to make an extra dollar in order to maintain (impossible) perpetual growth.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 07, 2021, 01:05:33 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 07, 2021, 12:48:03 PM

What type of Laptop Computer is the best bang for your buck?

I don't need all the bells and whistles that double the price, but I don't want some cheap piece of junk either.

Dells seem to work great up until a certain point, at which time everything just kinda goes to Hell all at once.

The question is really what you want it to do...

Is it a glorified dumb terminal for getting online? Do you have specialized applications (for work or otherwise) that you need to run on it? Will it be used for any "power user" type tasks, like video/photo editing, etc? 

A lot of people will disagree, but for basic ability to get online I'd look at a nicer chromebook before looking at a low-end Windows notebook. If you want "bang for your buck", it's a very lightweight OS so you don't need tons of RAM or processing power (or storage). Battery life is typically really good as well. But... It's very limited in what it can do. If everything you do can be done via the browser [which is increasingly common], it's great. If you want it to do anything else, it's not.

Beyond that I can't tell you much about brand. What I will say is this: don't cheap out on RAM [I'd prioritize the spend there over processor], and make sure you get an SSD rather than HDD. Most people don't need more than say 128GB storage, so a 128GB SSD will be a MUCH better user experience than a 1TB HDD. Once you get past the basic specs, you're looking at form factor (do you want something ultra thin and light--which you pay for), screen size, battery life, etc. 

Now, if you're a power user, you'll need a lot more. But most power users aren't asking this question, so I'm guessing it's more of a simple "I need a computer to run a few applications and get online" question, in which case you can get by with less.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 01:05:55 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 07, 2021, 12:58:45 PM

convenience

it's more convenient to not have a job

it's more convenient to not cook

it's more convenient to not parent your children

it's more convenient to let the government worry about your children

You'd be surprised at the last one, too, though.  On the other side of the spectrum, we have students who barely ever show up.  It's kind of hard to teach someone who isn't present.
Even in this online environment.....I have families that CHOSE online learning who can't wake up their kid and set them in front of the computer.  It's a special kind of lazy.
I feel for the ones with jobs relying on some unreliable family member to do it.  Or the ones with unholy-awful internet service, etc.  Those are numerous and real, but so are the ones who can't be bothered to even do the bare minimum.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 01:06:29 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 01:03:32 PM

You know this - sacrificing quality to make an extra dollar in order to maintain (impossible) perpetual growth. 

My obvious point is that 3 cents isn't going to make a material difference to a $2 lunch.  I didn't say anything remotely about some hypothetical perpetual growth, that came from nowhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 01:11:14 PM

The wife has a cousin in France who used to be married to some high level exec dude, she was a real looker even at 52, he was fat and kind of gross but rich.

One thing they had was a chef come to their house 3-4 times a week and prepare dinner.  They did this when we visited, the dinner was superb (duh, in St. Tropez, he had 2-3 ACRES in walking distance of the port there.  (They also had a live in maid.)

The wife noted how nice it would be to be able to have a chef come to your house on occasion.  Yup.  We dine out on occasion, usually avoiding any chain.

The cousin is divorced now, still a looker at about 60 or so.  She was a Vogue model in the I'm told, thin as a rail.

I sort of enjoy cooking, to an extent, when I feel like it, it's just chemistry really.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 01:15:32 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 07, 2021, 12:48:03 PM

What type of Laptop Computer is the best bang for your buck?

I don't need all the bells and whistles that double the price, but I don't want some cheap piece of junk either.

Dells seem to work great up until a certain point, at which time everything just kinda goes to Hell all at once.

I just go and get a $600 one that isn't garbage.  All I use it for is internet and (now) file storage.  The last one lasted me 8-9 years.  This one can fold all the way flat and act as a tablet (which I almost never use).  But the touchscreen in either tablet or laptop function is handy at certain times.

Due to inflation, maybe look in the $750 range.  I have an Acer now.  I couldn't tell you what the previous one was.  I just look for a certain price range and have some worker-bee at the store assure me it's not a piece of junk.  Get whatever is cheapest and has the most recent processor chip in it maybe?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 01:16:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 01:06:29 PM

My obvious point is that 3 cents isn't going to make a material difference to a $2 lunch.  I didn't say anything remotely about some hypothetical perpetual growth, that came from nowhere.

I honestly think everyone would benefit if you just stopped reading my posts.  I'm unwilling to take the time to break everything down bit by bit, sorry.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 07, 2021, 01:22:58 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 07, 2021, 12:48:03 PM

What type of Laptop Computer is the best bang for your buck?

I don't need all the bells and whistles that double the price, but I don't want some cheap piece of junk either.

Dells seem to work great up until a certain point, at which time everything just kinda goes to Hell all at once.

Ive used Dell for years and buy their support package

Very few complaints

If you are using a laptop for hours each day you should replace it every 4 or 5 years

get fast CPM plenty of storage at least 16 gig of RAM and a SSD drive

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 01:25:38 PM

I recently bought a new Dell for about $750.  It's really no better than my old Dell of 7.5 years, but I have a larger monitor now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 07, 2021, 01:28:57 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 01:05:55 PM

You'd be surprised at the last one, too, though.  On the other side of the spectrum, we have students who barely ever show up.  It's kind of hard to teach someone who isn't present.
Even in this online environment.....I have families that CHOSE online learning who can't wake up their kid and set them in front of the computer.  It's a special kind of lazy.
I feel for the ones with jobs relying on some unreliable family member to do it.  Or the ones with unholy-awful internet service, etc.  Those are numerous and real, but so are the ones who can't be bothered to even do the bare minimum.

the school system (Gov) is in charge of truancy 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 07, 2021, 01:29:53 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 07, 2021, 01:22:58 PM

Ive used Dell for years and buy their support package

Very few complaints

If you are using a laptop for hours each day you should replace it every 4 or 5 years

get fast CPM plenty of storage at least 16 gig of RAM and a SSD drive

you pay those heathens for support that you don't use?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 01:31:33 PM

I recently got a letter from the Social Security folks that my "benefit" had been uprated ($26) and it had a two page item about how I could contest this if I wanted.

Our grandkids in France had remote learning yesterday for the first time as the shut down just started.  The national system was down, nobody could log onto anything.

The Braves have started out 0-4.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 07, 2021, 01:32:49 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 07, 2021, 01:29:53 PM

you pay those heathens for support that you don't use?

Ive used it several times

very quick to make contact and they know their stuff

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 07, 2021, 01:34:41 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 01:31:33 PM

I recently got a letter from the Social Security folks that my "benefit" had been uprated ($26) and it had a two page item about how I could contest this if I wanted.

Our grandkids in France had remote learning yesterday for the first time as the shut down just started.  The national system was down, nobody could log onto anything.

The Braves have started out 0-4.

so much for the 6 o-clock news

the cheating Astros have started 5 and 1

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 01:37:09 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 07, 2021, 01:28:57 PM

the school system (Gov) is in charge of truancy

And lawyers (if it went there) are expensive.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 07, 2021, 01:52:30 PM

back in the day, the school would send someone to the house looking for the child or the parent if the child didn't show at school

does that still happen?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 01:54:39 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/EZ4LyDu.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 01:55:46 PM

It's very nice to hang onto a computer long enough so that when you need to replace the battery, they're cheap. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 01:56:37 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 07, 2021, 01:52:30 PM

back in the day, the school would send someone to the house looking for the child or the parent if the child didn't show at school

does that still happen?

We call.  Home visits do occur.  But basically after 10 consecutive days, they're simply dropped.  They have to re-enroll after that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 07, 2021, 01:58:13 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 07, 2021, 01:52:30 PM

back in the day, the school would send someone to the house looking for the child or the parent if the child didn't show at school

does that still happen?

From first hand knowledge.. no.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 07, 2021, 02:00:43 PM

after 10 consecutive days, the parent/guardian should be forced to work 40 hours at the school.

Perhaps in the kitchen!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 07, 2021, 02:02:00 PM

are voter restrictions much different in Colorado than Georgia?

asking for a friend

MLB

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 02:06:49 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 07, 2021, 02:02:00 PM

are voter restrictions much different in Colorado than Georgia?

asking for a friend

MLB

Different,  yes, majorly different, no.  Georgia in some ways is less restrictive.  I think this is 99.9% spin by each side.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 07, 2021, 02:09:03 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 07, 2021, 01:05:33 PM

The question is really what you want it to do...

Is it a glorified dumb terminal for getting online? Do you have specialized applications (for work or otherwise) that you need to run on it? Will it be used for any "power user" type tasks, like video/photo editing, etc?

A lot of people will disagree, but for basic ability to get online I'd look at a nicer chromebook before looking at a low-end Windows notebook. If you want "bang for your buck", it's a very lightweight OS so you don't need tons of RAM or processing power (or storage). Battery life is typically really good as well. But... It's very limited in what it can do. If everything you do can be done via the browser [which is increasingly common], it's great. If you want it to do anything else, it's not.

Beyond that I can't tell you much about brand. What I will say is this: don't cheap out on RAM [I'd prioritize the spend there over processor], and make sure you get an SSD rather than HDD. Most people don't need more than say 128GB storage, so a 128GB SSD will be a MUCH better user experience than a 1TB HDD. Once you get past the basic specs, you're looking at form factor (do you want something ultra thin and light--which you pay for), screen size, battery life, etc.

Now, if you're a power user, you'll need a lot more. But most power users aren't asking this question, so I'm guessing it's more of a simple "I need a computer to run a few applications and get online" question, in which case you can get by with less.

Yeah, I'm not a gamer or anything crazy like that. Mostly just using the internet.

My battery doesn't hold a charge at all, and the cord falls out a lot because the port is jacked up. Then it takes forever to reboot. Nothing on my menu bar works. The internet is sluggish, the videos stop and start, the sound is static-y, the ring of death appears frequently, and if I try to open a jpeg it tells me to go eff myself. Time for a replacement.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 07, 2021, 02:12:57 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 07, 2021, 02:09:03 PM

Yeah, I'm not a gamer or anything crazy like that. Mostly just using the internet.

My battery doesn't hold a charge at all, and the cord falls out a lot because the port is jacked up. Then it takes forever to reboot. Nothing on my menu bar works. The internet is sluggish, the videos stop and start, the sound is static-y, the ring of death appears frequently, and if I try to open a jpeg it tells me to go eff myself. Time for a replacement.

Here's an article on the capabilities between Chromebook and Windows notebook: https://www.cnet.com/news/laptop-vs-chromebook-whats-the-difference-and-which-is-best-in-2021/

Up to you if a Chromebook is enough, but they're generally less expensive if they are. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 07, 2021, 02:13:09 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 07, 2021, 02:09:03 PM

Yeah, I'm not a gamer or anything crazy like that. Mostly just using the internet.

My battery doesn't hold a charge at all, and the cord falls out a lot because the port is jacked up. Then it takes forever to reboot. Nothing on my menu bar works. The internet is sluggish, the videos stop and start, the sound is static-y, the ring of death appears frequently, and if I try to open a jpeg it tells me to go eff myself. Time for a replacement.

dude you need a Dell

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 02:27:30 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/3BHtbpk.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 07, 2021, 02:39:06 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 07, 2021, 02:13:09 PM

dude you need a Dell

It is a Dell. Worked like a dream up until a few weeks ago.

The port was damaged about six months ago and I had to take it into best buy and find a cord that would work on it. At that point the battery could only keep a charge for five minutes, but otherwise it worked perfectly fine. Now all of a sudden it loses power instantly if the cord comes out, and the whole thing is just going to Hell.

I could try a factory reset and maybe even a new battery, but with the port all jacked up why bother? Rather just drop a few hundo for a shiny new one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 02:46:34 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 07, 2021, 02:39:06 PM

It is a Dell. Worked like a dream up until a few weeks ago.
 Now all of a sudden it loses power instantly if the cord comes out, 

The exact same thing suddenly happened to me a couple of weeks ago, too.  I was panicking because I have orders to fill and a battery would take a few days.  
I took the battery out and used it plugged in for a day or so.  
Then I put the old battery back in and now it works fine again.  If you're willing to buy a new one, you have the luxury to fiddle around with it and see if some magic happens.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 03:18:17 PM

Officials: BeltLine's Southside Trail to launch new construction early next year | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/beltline-elevator-park-old-fourth-ward-new-city)

The BeltLine here I think has exceeded anyone's wildest imaginings in terms of popularity and commercial development.  The city seems to be taking notice and passed a special tax to develop it further.  There are plans for light rail or streetcars along it, but I'm beginning to think what it needs is a pedestrian walk separated from a bike path.

One project near us that stalled due to COVID is supposed to restart this month, I hope, it's an eyesore now.  I see news daily of new projects starting up or proposed around midtown, so it appears developers think the worst is behind us.  In the past, developers have not always been prescient.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 07, 2021, 03:27:47 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 07, 2021, 02:39:06 PM

It is a Dell. Worked like a dream up until a few weeks ago.

The port was damaged about six months ago and I had to take it into best buy and find a cord that would work on it. At that point the battery could only keep a charge for five minutes, but otherwise it worked perfectly fine. Now all of a sudden it loses power instantly if the cord comes out, and the whole thing is just going to Hell.

I could try a factory reset and maybe even a new battery, but with the port all jacked up why bother? Rather just drop a few hundo for a shiny new one.

Ive replaced several power ports in the past

unless the power port is part of the motherboard its not hard

you can find detailed disassembly instructions on most Dells on youtube

maybe you get a replacement laptop first then try replacing the power port

that way you will have a backup if needed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 03:40:07 PM

Does anyone want to transfer all of the teams I've created (1,600+) from excel to sheets for me?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 07, 2021, 04:25:49 PM

nope

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 07, 2021, 04:26:16 PM

and I think I'm speaking for anyone

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 07, 2021, 04:46:01 PM

Quote from: ELA on April 07, 2021, 10:56:43 AM

Beating a dead horse is also how the school sloppy joes are made

Well some Mrs Dash and meat tenderizer :67:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 07, 2021, 04:53:02 PM

plenty of MSG

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 07, 2021, 05:00:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 07, 2021, 01:31:33 PM

The Braves have started out 0-4.

what'd you expect for a paltry 136 million

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 07, 2021, 05:04:09 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 07, 2021, 02:09:03 PM

My battery doesn't hold a charge at all, and the cord falls out a lot because the port is jacked up.

(https://i.imgur.com/QPxTjJf.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 07, 2021, 05:10:29 PM

100 mph tape

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 07, 2021, 05:18:55 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 01:05:55 PM

You'd be surprised at the last one, too, though.  On the other side of the spectrum, we have students who barely ever show up.  It's kind of hard to teach someone who isn't present.
Even in this online environment.....I have families that CHOSE online learning who can't wake up their kid and set them in front of the computer.  It's a special kind of lazy.
I feel for the ones with jobs relying on some unreliable family member to do it.  Or the ones with unholy-awful internet service, etc.  Those are numerous and real, but so are the ones who can't be bothered to even do the bare minimum.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-0/p526x296/167869140_1577296285797320_4439601072030369464_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=OzOLjN7-iyAAX_T7eTn&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=567d807d2acfa587832366fd61c21ecb&oe=609433CC)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 07, 2021, 05:22:59 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 03:40:07 PM

Does anyone want to transfer all of the teams I've created (1,600+) from excel to sheets for me?

I'm sorry you're breaking up...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 07, 2021, 05:26:19 PM

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 07, 2021, 05:29:20 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 03:40:07 PM

Does anyone want to transfer all of the teams I've created (1,600+) from excel to sheets for me?

Hmm... I wonder how much I can quote OAM to do this for him...

...and then just follow the instructions here: https://productivityspot.com/convert-excel-to-google-sheets/


Convert Excel to Google Sheets while uploading to Google Drive

This method is best suited when you have a lot of Excel files that you want to convert to Google Sheets.

Here are the steps to convert Excel to Google Sheets while uploading to Google Drive:

• Go to Google Drive Homepage (https://drive.google.com/) and log in using your credentials.
• Click on the gear icon on the top right.[img width=327 height=215.363 alt=Convert Excel To Google Sheets - gear]https://mk0productivityipf7c.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Convert-Excel-To-Google-Sheets-Gear.png[/img][/size][/color]
• Click on Settings.[img width=327 height=215.363 alt=Convert Excel To Google Sheets - gear settings]https://mk0productivityipf7c.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Convert-Excel-To-Google-Sheets-Settings.png[/img][/size][/color]
• In the Setting dialog box, select the option ‘Convert uploaded files to Google Docs editor format’.
• Click on Done.

Now, when you upload an Excel file to Google Drive, it will automatically be converted into the Google Sheets format.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 07, 2021, 05:31:04 PM

in other news........

the weather isn't conducive for golf, so........

I'm going to the bar for 65 cent hot wings and cold Budweiser! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 07, 2021, 06:07:04 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 07, 2021, 05:31:04 PM

in other news........

the weather isn't conducive for golf, so........

I'm going to the bar for 65 cent hot wings and cold Budweiser!

You live such a wonderous life FF

kind of a cross between Homer Simpson and Fred Flintstone

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2021, 08:50:54 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 07, 2021, 05:29:20 PM

Hmm... I wonder how much I can quote OAM to do this for him...

...and then just follow the instructions here: https://productivityspot.com/convert-excel-to-google-sheets/


Convert Excel to Google Sheets while uploading to Google Drive

This method is best suited when you have a lot of Excel files that you want to convert to Google Sheets.

Here are the steps to convert Excel to Google Sheets while uploading to Google Drive:

• Go to Google Drive Homepage (https://drive.google.com/) and log in using your credentials.
• Click on the gear icon on the top right.[img width=327 height=215.363 alt=Convert Excel To Google Sheets - gear]https://mk0productivityipf7c.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Convert-Excel-To-Google-Sheets-Gear.png[/img][/size][/color]
• Click on Settings.[img width=327 height=215.363 alt=Convert Excel To Google Sheets - gear settings]https://mk0productivityipf7c.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Convert-Excel-To-Google-Sheets-Settings.png[/img][/size][/color]
• In the Setting dialog box, select the option ‘Convert uploaded files to Google Docs editor format’.
• Click on Done.

Now, when you upload an Excel file to Google Drive, it will automatically be converted into the Google Sheets format.

My worry is that the formatting will be more than 1 mm off and I have to adjust every team.  Maybe I'll be brave and see if my fears are warranted.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2021, 08:48:01 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 07, 2021, 06:07:04 PM

You live such a wonderous life FF

kind of a cross between Homer Simpson and Fred Flintstone

each man has to walk his own path

the path is a bit groggy this morning

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 08, 2021, 09:09:59 AM

The path this morning is cloudy with rain expected.  I'm going to throw at the tennis practice court and see how the shoulder is today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 08, 2021, 09:47:36 AM

Work stress is messing with sleep. Combination of work stress and bad sleep are leading to hideously stiff neck. Ugh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 08, 2021, 10:12:40 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 08, 2021, 09:47:36 AM

Work stress is messing with sleep. Combination of work stress and bad sleep are leading to hideously stiff neck. Ugh.

I haven't slept well in... Hell, I don't remember. On my best nights I manage to sleep until about 3-4 AM and then lay awake. On the worst nights I only make it to ~1 AM and it's just fitful all the rest of the way. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 08, 2021, 10:15:09 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 08, 2021, 10:12:40 AM

I haven't slept well in... Hell, I don't remember. On my best nights I manage to sleep until about 3-4 AM and then lay awake. On the worst nights I only make it to ~1 AM and it's just fitful all the rest of the way.

do you find yourself sleeping during the day?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 08, 2021, 10:22:47 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 08, 2021, 10:15:09 AM

do you find yourself sleeping during the day?

Never. I probably haven't taken a "nap" in over 5 years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 08, 2021, 10:25:57 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 08, 2021, 10:22:47 AM

Never. I probably haven't taken a "nap" in over 5 years.

What is it that wakes you up?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 08, 2021, 10:52:45 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 08, 2021, 09:09:59 AM

The path this morning is cloudy with rain expected.  I'm going to throw at the tennis practice court and see how the shoulder is today.

Another sign I'm getting old, nearly all the ladies playing tennis today were good looking to gorgeous.  I guess they had a league going, the courts were nearly full, 12 of them I think.  The practice wall was open for me.  A good looking lady sat down near me and I asked if she was waiting on me, she said she was watching a friend play.

I think she really was watching me throw.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 08, 2021, 11:07:27 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 08, 2021, 10:25:57 AM

What is it that wakes you up?

Not always clear, but I usually have to hit the restroom when that happens, so that may be what's waking me up. Or... Maybe I'm waking up due to something else and my body decides hitting the restroom would be convenient because I'm up...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 08, 2021, 11:07:49 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 08, 2021, 10:22:47 AM

Never. I probably haven't taken a "nap" in over 5 years.

That is unimaginably awful.
When I wake up from a nap, I feel so strong and right.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 08, 2021, 11:31:47 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 08, 2021, 10:25:57 AM

What is it that wakes you up?

Expanded playoff scenarios.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 08, 2021, 11:41:14 AM

I used to doze off at work sometimes, now I almost never doze or nap, even though I could any time I'm not driving etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 08, 2021, 11:45:23 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 08, 2021, 11:07:27 AM

Not always clear, but I usually have to hit the restroom when that happens, so that may be what's waking me up. Or... Maybe I'm waking up due to something else and my body decides hitting the restroom would be convenient because I'm up...

Welcome to my world

on a good night its one trip 

but I can always fall back asleep

have you thought of sleep apnea

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 08, 2021, 11:46:29 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 08, 2021, 11:41:14 AM

I used to doze off at work sometimes, now I almost never doze or nap, even though I could any time I'm not driving etc.

I take 1 nap every day

mostly 1 to 2 hours

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2021, 11:57:39 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 08, 2021, 11:45:23 AM

Welcome to my world

on a good night its one trip

but I can always fall back asleep

have you thought of sleep apnea

youse fellas obviously aren't drinking enough

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 08, 2021, 12:01:24 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 08, 2021, 11:57:39 AM

youse fellas obviously aren't drinking enough

I dont drink near as much as I used to when I was a flat belly

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2021, 12:03:14 PM

I slept very well last night

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 08, 2021, 12:07:40 PM

has anyone here ever gone to sleep with a hard decision to make or an unsolved problem and when you wake up you know the answer

that used to happen to me a lot when I worked for a living

I guess the phrase lets sleep on it has merit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 08, 2021, 12:09:25 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 08, 2021, 11:07:49 AM

That is unimaginably awful.
When I wake up from a nap, I feel so strong and right.

When I wake up from a nap, I feel sick. Never really got on with naps... Always feel like I've screwed my mental state for the entire rest of the day. 

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 08, 2021, 11:45:23 AM

Welcome to my world

on a good night its one trip

but I can always fall back asleep

have you thought of sleep apnea

Yeah, I have a CPAP that I don't use. Probably should. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 08, 2021, 12:11:21 PM

I have a CPAP and I use it, even though I tested out of it a few months ago (after much weight loss).

It's like my blankie. Can't let it go.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 08, 2021, 12:35:35 PM

I could probably stand to lose 5 or 30 lbs...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2021, 12:37:18 PM

I'm down 10

working on the next 10

then I'm good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 08, 2021, 12:38:26 PM

Alcohol can mess with your sleep cycle.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 08, 2021, 12:44:44 PM

Yep. Passing out and sleeping are not the same.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2021, 12:54:19 PM

perhaps not, but you do rest well when passed out

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 08, 2021, 01:10:24 PM

because your body is taking over, since your brain is failing you, lol

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 08, 2021, 02:14:32 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 08, 2021, 12:38:26 PM

Alcohol can mess with your sleep cycle.

Yeah, but I also sleep like crap when I don't drink...

Small sample size, of course... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 08, 2021, 02:59:39 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 08, 2021, 12:07:40 PM

has anyone here ever gone to sleep with a hard decision to make or an unsolved problem and when you wake up you know the answer

that used to happen to me a lot when I worked for a living

I guess the phrase lets sleep on it has merit

When I was learning graphic design techniques this would happen to me all the time. I would dream about creative ways to set up/clean up artwork quickly and efficiently that didn't occur to my while I was awake, and sitting at my work computer doing it the long way. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2021, 03:30:53 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-0/p526x296/170566672_301179128040230_5674620599961943562_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=FU4TRq803vgAX9I6cPE&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=c2113f2a989423e4dc42d09401673403&oe=6094354C)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 08, 2021, 03:44:49 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 08, 2021, 12:07:40 PM

has anyone here ever gone to sleep with a hard decision to make or an unsolved problem and when you wake up you know the answer

In grad school, I had a very perplexing problem in the lab, the Boss couldn't figure it out either.  We kept pounding away, nothing made sense.  I woke one morning around 2 AM and realized what the solution might be, I got up and went into the lab to run some tests, and sure enough the tests were aligned with my solution.  I was sitting outside the bosses office when he arrived at 7 AM and showed him the data.  That was pretty cool.

It was a reaction that generated B from A, but then under the same conditions also produced A from B, so it kind of ran in circles, which is why none of the kinetics made sense.  Got a nice pub out of that one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2021, 03:46:04 PM

The Jet Award tonight with keynote speaker Hershel Walker is sold out. You can watch via Zoom at 6 PM Central time. Pass code 424691.

https://zoom.us/j/97282347349?pwd=NlJ5cGxpcE5mZEE4aDlHSGN4TkdMUT09#success (https://zoom.us/j/97282347349?pwd=NlJ5cGxpcE5mZEE4aDlHSGN4TkdMUT09#success)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 08, 2021, 05:24:13 PM

Just got off a Zoom with my financial advisor. Obviously this is an anomaly, but we did 70% on our holdings last year, April to April.

This year will be a little choppy still, but we're project 22-26% for 2021.

How'd y'all make out last year?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 08, 2021, 05:36:38 PM

April to April, I probably killed it too, I don't project next year though, it would be down 20%.  I have been heavy in "cash" for a while now.  My IRA is my main account, the numbers there make me scratch my head, I make a lot more now than I made working.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 08, 2021, 05:55:31 PM

My personal account is basically ESPP and RSU, and the value there has almost doubled in the last 12 months. 94 was talking about the shortages, and that helps that account. The one different plan I'm going to have this time relative to the last big run-up the company had is that when I actually think it's peaked, I'm going to get out and diversify... Probably take a big tax hit at that point, but worth it to avoid losses.

The rest of it is 401K so I don't look at it too closely. Supposedly my 1-year return there is almost 73%. Hope they do a good job retaining it lol...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 08, 2021, 06:09:46 PM

So many people foolishly pulled out last March, and never got back in. That would suck.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2021, 06:57:15 PM

90% of my stuff is very conservative - S&P 500

I did nearly 100% on the other 10%

overall was about 17% from Jan to January

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 08, 2021, 08:17:58 PM

how the hell am I not hearing about this 'til now? Amy Winehouse song completely made by AI. This is freaking me out....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh3dNJIYO2M






The machines will take over the world. Soon. Terminator was a documentary.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 08, 2021, 08:23:20 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 08, 2021, 08:17:58 PM

how the hell am I not hearing about this 'til now? Amy Winehouse song completely made by AI. This is freaking me out....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh3dNJIYO2M



The machines will take over the world. Soon. Terminator was a documentary.

I was listening to those the other day. The Nirvana one wasn't bad. The Doors one sounded like Mitch McConnell singing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 08, 2021, 10:38:21 PM

I do enjoy burger night...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 09, 2021, 06:10:16 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 08, 2021, 10:38:21 PM

I do enjoy burger night...

Your presentation of food in photos is always top notch!   A second career???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Kris60 on April 09, 2021, 06:58:57 AM

Man, that looks good. The tots look as good as the burger. I’d need a big bowl of ketchup for those bad boys.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2021, 08:20:49 AM

There is a ketchup shortage, apparently. 

Is ketchup made in China too?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 09, 2021, 08:31:14 AM

Trying to ruin that burger with too much lettuce

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2021, 08:53:50 AM

That's his salad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 09, 2021, 08:55:27 AM

Bought some scallops at Costco yesterday, figure on giving them a shot tonight.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 09, 2021, 09:25:45 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 09, 2021, 08:55:27 AM

Bought some scallops at Costco yesterday, figure on giving them a shot tonight.

Let me know what you think.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 09, 2021, 10:03:07 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 09, 2021, 06:10:16 AM

Your presentation of food in photos is always top notch!  A second career???

If I made it into a job, I might start hating it lol...

Quote from: Kris60 on April 09, 2021, 06:58:57 AM

Man, that looks good. The tots look as good as the burger. I’d need a big bowl of ketchup for those bad boys.

Gotta give my wife the credit for the tots, as well as the assembly of the burger. I just ground the meat, cooked the burgers, and toasted the buns. She did everything else. 

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2021, 08:20:49 AM

There is a ketchup shortage, apparently.

Is ketchup made in China too?

I don't like ketchup much. Kinda grew out of it. 

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 09, 2021, 08:31:14 AM

Trying to ruin that burger with too much lettuce

I'm a big fan of balance. And when you have a 10.5 oz patty with two slices of melted cheddar, there's plenty of room to add condiments and still balance. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 09, 2021, 10:05:01 AM

Totchos are a bar food popular here, the place next door claims to have invented them.  They have 4-5 versions for $10, which will fill up two people.

Totchos are based on tater tots fried and then covered with coverage, like nachos.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 09, 2021, 10:08:49 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 09, 2021, 08:55:27 AM

Bought some scallops at Costco yesterday, figure on giving them a shot tonight.

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 09, 2021, 09:25:45 AM

Let me know what you think. 

I do that all the time. We buy the nice big ones (I think U10) from the frozen section. Usually a 2.5# bag, so we'll typically do 1.25# per meal that we have scallops. I do the same with the frozen U13-15 shrimp, which comes in 4# bags. Costco has nice frozen individually-sealed portions salmon, mahi, cod, tilapia (for fish tacos) that we buy all the time. Usually don't get much of the halibut, sea bass, or others because they're $$$...

I rarely buy "fresh" seafood, because most seafood in the store isn't fresh anyway. It's previously frozen and defrosted in-store. Might as well buy it frozen and defrost it myself under my own conditions just prior to cooking. The primary time I buy fresh is when it's something that isn't available frozen from Costco, or when I'm buying the large 3+# salmon filet to make with the kids, because that will all be consumed in one meal. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 09, 2021, 10:18:25 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 09, 2021, 10:05:01 AM

Totchos are a bar food popular here, the place next door claims to have invented them.  They have 4-5 versions for $10, which will fill up two people.

Totchos are based on tater tots fried and then covered with coverage, like nachos.

With all the fixin's???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 09, 2021, 10:26:22 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 09, 2021, 10:03:07 AM

I don't like ketchup much. Kinda grew out of it.

it's sugary and for kids

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 09, 2021, 10:47:45 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 09, 2021, 10:08:49 AM

I do that all the time. We buy the nice big ones (I think U10) from the frozen section. Usually a 2.5# bag, so we'll typically do 1.25# per meal that we have scallops. I do the same with the frozen U13-15 shrimp, which comes in 4# bags. Costco has nice frozen individually-sealed portions salmon, mahi, cod, tilapia (for fish tacos) that we buy all the time. Usually don't get much of the halibut, sea bass, or others because they're $$$...

I rarely buy "fresh" seafood, because most seafood in the store isn't fresh anyway. It's previously frozen and defrosted in-store. Might as well buy it frozen and defrost it myself under my own conditions just prior to cooking. The primary time I buy fresh is when it's something that isn't available frozen from Costco, or when I'm buying the large 3+# salmon filet to make with the kids, because that will all be consumed in one meal.

They also sell a variety pack that has shrimp, calamari, scallops, and mussels. Defrost that, toss in corn starch, then fry makes for a nice appetizer if you have people over.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 09, 2021, 10:56:49 AM

The Nook’s World Famous Totchos™ 
What are Totchos you ask?  They are our The Nook’s tater tots smothered in goodness!
As The Nook continues our commitment to giving back, all of our Totchos will be “Giving Totchos” during this time, and all will benefit The Giving Kitchen. 
Please see www.thegivingkitchen.org for more information.
Breakfast Totchos™

$10

Tots smothered with chicken sausage gravy, diced chicken sausage, and an egg over easy.
Loaded PoTotchos™

$10

Tots smothered with cheese sauce, sour cream, bacon bits, shredded cheese, and scallions.
Redneck Totchos™

$11

Tots smothered with mesquite smoked pork, our signature Coca-Cola® barbecue sauce, jalapeños, and homemade cheese sauce.
Buffalo Chicken Totchos™

$11

Tots smothered with grilled chicken in our spicy buffalo sauce, blue cheese dressing and topped with green onions and blue cheese crumbles.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 09, 2021, 11:06:44 AM

triple D joint

the nook

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2021, 12:22:06 PM

Calorie and carb and cholesterol bomb. No thank you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on April 09, 2021, 12:44:39 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 09, 2021, 10:56:49 AM

The Nook’s World Famous Totchos™
What are Totchos you ask?  They are our The Nook’s tater tots smothered in goodness!
As The Nook continues our commitment to giving back, all of our Totchos will be “Giving Totchos” during this time, and all will benefit The Giving Kitchen.
Please see www.thegivingkitchen.org for more information.
Breakfast Totchos™

$10

Tots smothered with chicken sausage gravy, diced chicken sausage, and an egg over easy.
Loaded PoTotchos™

$10

Tots smothered with cheese sauce, sour cream, bacon bits, shredded cheese, and scallions.
Redneck Totchos™

$11

Tots smothered with mesquite smoked pork, our signature Coca-Cola® barbecue sauce, jalapeños, and homemade cheese sauce.
Buffalo Chicken Totchos™

$11

Tots smothered with grilled chicken in our spicy buffalo sauce, blue cheese dressing and topped with green onions and blue cheese crumbles.

Actually had this for the first time at Cold Bell and Cheeseburgers last week. A Buffalo Chicken variety.  They were quite tasty.  Wife just recently had braces put on so Nacho chips are out of the question. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 09, 2021, 01:05:23 PM

The last third of loaded tots are far superior to the soggy chips of loaded nachos.  

But you have to gobble both up before either gets cold.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 09, 2021, 01:16:59 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2021, 12:22:06 PM

Calorie and carb and cholesterol bomb. No thank you.

Eh... Sometimes you just have to go big.

It's the key to life--excess in moderation. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mrrca_PmViw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 09, 2021, 02:39:08 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2021, 12:22:06 PM

Calorie and carb and cholesterol bomb. No thank you.

Probably not much cholesterol in most, but a lot of fat.  I can't finish one order.

We were going to have lunch at the botanical  garden but it was packed (which is good news).  So, we walked down the hill to try this newish Mexican place, which was closed for some reason, the pizza place was closed for lunch, by now we were almost to our French place, so we had lunch there.  However, it's an uphill walk back of close to two miles.  They have good fries.

The Nook was packed when we passed it, which is normal for them.  Their food is typical bar food mostly, but it seems to be a major pickup joint.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 09, 2021, 03:32:16 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 08, 2021, 08:17:58 PM

how the hell am I not hearing about this 'til now? Amy Winehouse song completely made by AI. This is freaking me out....







The machines will take over the world. Soon. Terminator was a documentary.

The cyborgs will be our undoing, but I suspect that it will be less Terminator-y and more of a thing where the sexbots become so realistic that men and women will no longer be hooking up with each other.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 09, 2021, 03:42:24 PM

I'm way past ya, bud!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 09, 2021, 05:18:23 PM

I never got into those nacho also rans. Ohio tends to have nacho substitutes using potato chips. Seeing nachos on the menu then realizing they use potato chips is...disappointing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 09, 2021, 05:37:14 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 09, 2021, 05:18:23 PM

I never got into those nacho also rans. Ohio tends to have nacho substitutes using potato chips. Seeing nachos on the menu then realizing they use potato chips is...disappointing.

That would never fly here in Texas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 09, 2021, 06:31:18 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 09, 2021, 05:37:14 PM

That would never fly here in Texas

Shouldn't fly in Ohio either. Nachos are the near perfect greasy appetizer. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 09, 2021, 09:35:49 PM

Page 333

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/517VmLWX3EL.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 10, 2021, 07:45:03 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 09, 2021, 05:18:23 PM

I never got into those nacho also rans. Ohio tends to have nacho substitutes using potato chips.

Wha....,since when? That's just something you weird Central Ohio Briars concoct.As opposed to the Southern Ohio Briars actually Kentuckians who slap together a big mess they call CHILI,SMDH

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 10, 2021, 08:58:38 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 09, 2021, 09:35:49 PM

Page 333

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/517VmLWX3EL.jpg)

We're halfway there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 10, 2021, 09:15:25 AM

waffle fries are sometimes used here for nacho chips

never potato chips

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 10, 2021, 09:19:27 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 09, 2021, 10:12:12 AM

Dying state

(https://i.imgur.com/hSexMet.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 10, 2021, 09:21:34 AM

Kansas?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 10, 2021, 09:36:23 AM

Evidently watching reruns of the Wizard of Oz - damn twisters....and witches

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 10, 2021, 10:03:02 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 10, 2021, 09:19:27 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/hSexMet.png)

Sure, without adjusting for population, any state with nearly 40M people will look like a big number.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 10, 2021, 10:05:30 AM

Florida is not on that list. :67:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 10, 2021, 10:07:18 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 10, 2021, 10:05:30 AM

Florida is not on that list. :67:

neither is Texas


bad power grid and all

course we have so many illegals flooding in it would be dern near impossible to lose population

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 10, 2021, 10:08:02 AM

And 2010-19, California had positive net migration overall, counting both international and domestic:

https://www.prb.org/usdata/indicator/migration/snapshot

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 10, 2021, 10:12:57 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 10, 2021, 07:45:03 AM

Wha....,since when? That's just something you weird Central Ohio Briars concoct.As opposed to the Southern Ohio Briars actually Kentuckians who slap together a big mess they call CHILI,SMDH

Careful now. 

Cincydawg gets mighty defensive of his Cincinnati Chili. 


(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/E2qgPzxxJPQ/maxresdefault.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 10, 2021, 10:19:05 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/tqQLxv7.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 10, 2021, 11:03:17 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 10, 2021, 10:12:57 AM

Careful now.

Cincydawg gets mighty defensive of his Cincinnati Chili.

Actually, not really, I found it to be "interesting" and I got used to it.  I don't miss it now.  

I lived there for more than half my life, though that is about to cease to be true.  I hope.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 10, 2021, 12:08:45 PM

Going to look at a MB GLE AMG43 today. My wife likes it a lot.

(https://i.imgur.com/eqN6k8l.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 10, 2021, 12:50:55 PM

Women tend to love SUVs because of their height.  The ones I've driven drive like pigs as a result of that top weight, and they get poor fuel economy.

I'm not a fan, at all.  But it's good to get the wife what she wants in general.  Mine wanted a convertible and then said a nice sunroof would be sufficient.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 10, 2021, 01:11:39 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 10, 2021, 11:03:17 AM

Actually, not really, I found it to be "interesting" and I got used to it.  I don't miss it now. 

And here I thought that you were the Cincinnati Chili version of that egg council that Fro has been trying to warn us about. 

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSKT_5RqXOID_8LKojyh11666CE-FwS52SuylmELpYK-FYSbMRaKWEkzpc9kY0cPzMdx-A&usqp=CAU)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 10, 2021, 01:53:58 PM

Nah,  I do like finally chopped Vidalia onions and will often add them and cheddar cheese to my variant of chili.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 10, 2021, 02:04:09 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 09, 2021, 01:05:23 PM

The last third of loaded tots are far superior to the soggy chips of loaded nachos. 

But you have to gobble both up before either gets cold.

Pile of slop nachos suck anyway.  Proper nachos are neatly arranged, like this:


(https://i.imgur.com/gwEjCy1.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 10, 2021, 02:05:06 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 10, 2021, 01:53:58 PM

Nah,  I do like finally chopped Vidalia onions and will often add them and cheddar cheese to my variant of chili.

Chopped onions and grated cheddar cheese are proper and acceptable toppings for chili.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 10, 2021, 02:21:19 PM

Ya your nachos above are just too neat to eat over the sink,i'll pass 😎

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 10, 2021, 04:08:46 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 10, 2021, 12:50:55 PM

Women tend to love SUVs because of their height.  The ones I've driven drive like pigs as a result of that top weight, and they get poor fuel economy.

I'm not a fan, at all.  But it's good to get the wife what she wants in general.  Mine wanted a convertible and then said a nice sunroof would be sufficient.

This car drove fantastic. Felt like a sports car. I made an offer. We'll see.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 10, 2021, 04:23:56 PM

2021 Mercedes-AMG GLE-Class Review, Pricing, and Specs (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/mercedes-amg/gle53-4matic-gle63-4matic)

I've driven the BMW equivalent, the have great power and acceleration and drive probably about the best an SUV can drive, maybe the Macan is a bit better, don't know.  They aren't meant to be sports cars obviously.  They would be very good highway cruisers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 10, 2021, 04:27:39 PM

So is Skyline chili just with onions and cheese?  
Is that why Wendy's offers those every time I order chili?  And no, I haven't found any band-aids or finger tips in it.  


Separated nachos sounds too expensive for me.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 10, 2021, 04:28:56 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 10, 2021, 04:23:56 PM

2021 Mercedes-AMG GLE-Class Review, Pricing, and Specs (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/mercedes-amg/gle53-4matic-gle63-4matic)

I've driven the BMW equivalent, the have great power and acceleration and drive probably about the best an SUV can drive, maybe the Macan is a bit better, don't know.  They aren't meant to be sports cars obviously.  They would be very good highway cruisers.

Get her a Durango Hellcat, lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-jdvMU1EKo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-jdvMU1EKo)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 10, 2021, 04:38:58 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 10, 2021, 04:27:39 PM

So is Skyline chili just with onions and cheese? 
Is that why Wendy's offers those every time I order chili?  And no, I haven't found any band-aids or finger tips in it. 

It's a kind of brownish gruel served over over cooked spaghetti noodles optionally topped with cheese, onions, and even deep fried jalapenoes, optionally contained beans.

The origins are Mediterranean apparently, and several places claim it.  You can order it from two way up to six way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 10, 2021, 05:28:42 PM

Order up a variety pack, and try them all. 

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/proxy/mLnzvk5THawSyUmEaRy3eX2Ps-PCgMs5rs3w-XqyQ_Cx5Qx3x5dPgll87dCKFBi9O5-2f9NcxXbMZa5LEYIlalwsNwo7StVg9ddWh5YkB9Fp92I=w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu)

When you get done doing that, mix them all together, and then try that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 10, 2021, 06:56:22 PM

The stuff in those cans is really really bad.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 10, 2021, 08:47:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 10, 2021, 06:56:22 PM

The stuff in those cans is really really bad. 

:67:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 10, 2021, 09:50:26 PM

I wouldn't eat anything out of those cans unless served in the most impressive manner

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 11, 2021, 12:14:05 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 10, 2021, 12:08:45 PM

Going to look at a MB GLE AMG43 today. My wife likes it a lot.

(https://i.imgur.com/eqN6k8l.png)

There is  GlC 63 AMG that just arrived in Port of Rhode Island on the eighth and will be in a Tampa Clearwater dealership in about 10 days.

I know because I almost bought it. I had ordered the new hellcat Durango which is limited production of only 2000 units but Dodge just does not have their act together. So it was down to the AMG are the Audi SQ8, which I picked up today.
there is a shortage on dealer inventory as you all know so I had to fly to Atlanta to get the car I wanted and drove it back today.

there is nothing top-heavy or sluggish about this vehicle LOL. It will out run an out corner 99.5% of sedans and coops on the road. 
it has some incredible new hardware including a separate anti-roll stabilization motor and rear steering at high speeds to keep it stable.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=sq8+pov+review+not+what+i+thought&t=iphone&ia=videos&iax=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DZBaxoQ4FYfA

(https://i.imgur.com/KkO894K.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 11, 2021, 08:49:46 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 10, 2021, 10:05:30 AM

Florida is not on that list. :67:

Florida is in danger of becoming the new California. 

New York is dead. Everyone from NY with money is moving to Miami-Ft.Lauderdale-Boca/Palm Beach. 

All this money pouring in, home & land prices skyrocketing with no end in sight- and my only fear is these people pouring in do not do some dumb shit and turn this great state into the shithole garbage dump they were fleeing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 11, 2021, 09:08:12 AM

enjoy Sunday at the Masters


I'll be on the golf course

18 this morning teeing at 9:30

then change courses and 18 this afternoon teeing at 1:45

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 11, 2021, 09:42:04 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 10, 2021, 09:19:27 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/hSexMet.png)

Congrats on all your new neighbors from the Northeast and Ca! 

May you some day take enough of them that I can afford a house in my hometown. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2021, 09:42:15 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 11, 2021, 08:49:46 AM

Florida is in danger of becoming the new California.

New York is dead. Everyone from NY with money is moving to Miami-Ft.Lauderdale-Boca/Palm Beach.

All this money pouring in, home & land prices skyrocketing with no end in sight- and my only fear is these people pouring in do not do some dumb shit and turn this great state into the shithole garbage dump they were fleeing.

This does concern me a bit. Houses are selling like crazy over here too, and prices are going up. I see more and more NE and California tags too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 11, 2021, 09:43:43 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 11, 2021, 08:49:46 AM

Florida is in danger of becoming the new California.

New York is dead. Everyone from NY with money is moving to Miami-Ft.Lauderdale-Boca/Palm Beach.

All this money pouring in, home & land prices skyrocketing with no end in sight- and my only fear is these people pouring in do not do some dumb shit and turn this great state into the shithole garbage dump they were fleeing.

Haven't New Yorkers with money been moving to Florida to die since time began?

Anyway, this is the downside of popularity, especially when many/most of the newcomers share your feelings on the livability of the vast majority of the state. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 11, 2021, 09:54:55 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 11, 2021, 12:14:05 AM

there is nothing top-heavy or sluggish about this vehicle LOL. It will out run an out corner 99.5% of sedans and coops on the road. 
it has some incredible new hardware including a separate anti-roll stabilization motor and rear steering at high speeds to keep it stable.

Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.91 g

That's C&D's figure for road holding, which is very good for an SUV.  My GTI does 0.89, with FWD, costing $30 K.  Skidpad figures aren't the be all of course.  (Tires play a big role along with weight distribution.)

2021 Cadillac CT5 Review, Pricing, and Specs (caranddriver.com)

 (https://www.caranddriver.com/cadillac/ct5)An "ordinary" CT5 is at 0.92.  

The Merc would dust them both on a road course due to much higher power to weight.  But the pure handling is not something out of this world.  Sedans in the same price range would beat them.  I personally feel that top weight in any SUV I've driven, I'm pretty sure this Merc is one of the best.

2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing Gets a Glorious 668-HP V-8 and a Manual (caranddriver.com)

 (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35383882/2022-cadillac-ct5-v-blackwing-revealed/)This one would keep up on a track easily and comes with a manual transmission.  But, we don't drive on a track, usually.  I found it to be very exhausting personally, but I'm old.  

It reminds me of how I used to pass kids on a bike with some 18 speed bike in the wrong gear going up a hill, they had a bike costing 4x what mine cost but they didn't know even the basics, apparently, of how to ride it.  I still "lust" after a C8 Corvette, but where am I going to drive it at half it's potential?  I don't even stretch the GTI's.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 11, 2021, 09:56:11 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 11, 2021, 09:43:43 AM

Haven't New Yorkers with money been moving to Florida to die since time began?

It's a pretty obvious thing to live 6 months and a day in Florida and pay FL income taxes while keeping an apartment in NYC if you want.

I considered this dodge myself were I to live part time in say California.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 11, 2021, 09:59:15 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 11, 2021, 09:08:12 AM

enjoy Sunday at the Masters


I'll be on the golf course

18 this morning teeing at 9:30

then change courses and 18 this afternoon teeing at 1:45

Enjoy!

Taking my son to the par-29 exec course today. Hoping he can beat his previous score of 64 lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2021, 10:00:07 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 11, 2021, 09:56:11 AM

It's a pretty obvious thing to live 6 months and a day in Florida and pay FL income taxes while keeping an apartment in NYC if you want.

I considered this dodge myself were I to live part time in say California.

What income taxes? We don't have any of that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 11, 2021, 10:04:15 AM

ARod is buying the Timberwolves.

In other news, the renovated Seattle Center Coliseum just freed up 41 dates.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 11, 2021, 10:09:43 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2021, 10:00:07 AM

What income taxes? We don't have any of that.

That is my point.  My kid in Texas said my property taxes in Austin would be over double what they are here same unit.  You have to pay taxes one way or the other ....

Georgia's income taxes are pretty friendly to retirees, if you keep a lid on income.

My property taxes are in line with Cincy for the same valuation.  Our house there was of course more sqft by 50% and with a very nice lot, but worth less than half what this one cost.  Location I guess.

Condos around us sell very quickly these days.  Keeping an eye on interest rates and inflation, that could end our nice run here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 11, 2021, 10:09:53 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 11, 2021, 09:43:43 AM

Haven't New Yorkers with money been moving to Florida to die since time began?

Anyway, this is the downside of popularity, especially when many/most of the newcomers share your feelings on the livability of the vast majority of the state.

Yes, but it's not like it's just all old people moving to Florida at the moment. It's a lot of younger people with money that are coming right now. Wall Street & Big Tech companies/execs/employees are coming here in droves also. And it's not just people from NY. The entire NE region is coming down in droves right now. I just sold a reno job to a couple from Boston area in their early 50's who bought a piece of junk production home built in 2001 all the way west- not even really in Boca- for $1.8 million. It's a nice gated community- with a bunch of fake little "lakes" and good size lots- 1/3rd to half acre- but the homes are complete crap and they are going to wind up spending minimum $500k fixing it up right before it's all said and done. House should be $1mil max. And they paid cash. 

I also just bid a job a few months back- didn't get it- but it was for a guy from Michigan who bought a house in Boca on the water for $5.7 million- CASH- closed in 10 days. He was 42, his wife was 30. He wanted to rip the roof, do a new metal roof, do a 3,000 sq ft home addition to a 8,000 sq ft home- re-do the pool, add a bunch of new windows and glass to the existing structure- one of those huge nana sliding glass walls- do new garage doors with the glass on them- new elevator system- completely change the exterior elevation and do a new smooth stucco- gut the entire home and re-do it. That job was easily just under $2 million with all the crap he wanted to do. 

Unfortunately- when it's a really nice place to live- people flock. All those flocking people usually just wind up making something really good go to shit. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on April 11, 2021, 10:51:18 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 10, 2021, 05:28:42 PM

Order up a variety pack, and try them all.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/proxy/mLnzvk5THawSyUmEaRy3eX2Ps-PCgMs5rs3w-XqyQ_Cx5Qx3x5dPgll87dCKFBi9O5-2f9NcxXbMZa5LEYIlalwsNwo7StVg9ddWh5YkB9Fp92I=w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu)

When you get done doing that, mix them all together, and then try that.

Gold Star Chili is the most memorably bad chili I’ve ever tried - yuck! 🤮

I warn anyone traveling through southern Ohio to stay away.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 11, 2021, 10:56:51 AM

I've never even tried the chili over spaghetti. But every once in a while I'll pop in to a Skyline and get a couple coney dogs. Slathered in chili, mustard, onions, cheese, and that super tangy hot sauce - not bad. It's also the rare fast food restaurant that has waiters and gives you a little bowl of oyster crackers when you sit down.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 11, 2021, 10:59:09 AM

All of this tax talk reminds me I have to do my taxes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 11, 2021, 11:22:32 AM

Of the three chains, Skyline is the biggest. It has fully infiltrated the Columbus, Indianapolis and Louisville markets with a few one offs in Cleveland, South Bend, etc. 

Gold Star is next. They have the Cincy-Dayton area fully saturated, but don't exist outside of that general area.

Dixie is the smallest and most obscure of the three chains. It is only available in Cincinnati's Kentucky suburbs.

There are at least a dozen one offs as well, including Cincydawg's beloved Blue Ash Chili that does the eating challenge. 



(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/jK0GhT1OOfE/maxresdefault.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 11, 2021, 11:26:04 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 11, 2021, 10:56:51 AM

I've never even tried the chili over spaghetti. But every once in a while I'll pop in to a Skyline and get a couple coney dogs. Slathered in chili, mustard, onions, cheese, and that super tangy hot sauce - not bad. It's also the rare fast food restaurant that has waiters and gives you a little bowl of oyster crackers when you sit down.

Chili over spaghetti? WTF? Only in Ohio, I guess. Gross. 

Thats not a coney. You lost me at the cheese and tangy hot sauce. Coney dog has chili, mustard, and onions. That’s it. I hate hot dogs- but the coney dog in downtown Detroit at Lafayette or American- could eat those every single day of the week.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 11, 2021, 11:30:49 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 11, 2021, 11:26:04 AM

Chili over spaghetti? WTF? Only in Ohio, I guess. Gross.

Thats not a coney. You lost me at the cheese and tangy hot sauce. Coney dog has chili, mustard, and onions. That’s it. I hate hot dogs- but the coney dog in downtown Detroit at Lafayette or American- could eat those every single day of the week.

Ooh you should try it - it's important the cheese is room temperature and finely shredded - then it gets a little melty by the dog and holds onto the hot sauce. When I studied in Oxford they had this street meat that was ok, but offered this super sharp hot sauce that really made it. I think the closest big brand I've had to it is Texas Pete's, so I try to keep that on hand.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 11, 2021, 11:37:20 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 11, 2021, 10:56:51 AM

I've never even tried the chili over spaghetti. But every once in a while I'll pop in to a Skyline and get a couple coney dogs. Slathered in chili, mustard, onions, cheese, and that super tangy hot sauce - not bad. It's also the rare fast food restaurant that has waiters and gives you a little bowl of oyster crackers when you sit down.

It's fine/good. I mean, if you like spaghetti with meat sauce, it's not really far from that.

A place I like was doing Texas-style brisket chili (so not that odd skyline style), which is not quite robust enough to eat as a soup. So I slopped it over a little pasta and found it to be generally a solid way to eat it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 11, 2021, 11:40:54 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 11, 2021, 10:09:53 AM

Unfortunately- when it's a really nice place to live- people flock. All those flocking people usually just wind up making something really good go to shit.

When you have something nice, chances are someone with a lot of money and little regard will also find it nice. 

Granted, we might be in the midst of another housing bubble. I know I read some hedge funds are buying up property either to rent or just to hold onto. It seemed like the early low interest rates were good for folks early in the pandemic, but folks I know in cities in the market for a house are just throwing big offers out to no avail. Shoot, in my quiet little neighborhood, houses are being sold within a day of going on the market. And it's historically been a low-price kinda place (an improving downtown and proximity are helping). 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 11, 2021, 11:58:29 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 11, 2021, 09:54:55 AM

Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.91 g

That's C&D's figure for road holding, which is very good for an SUV.  My GTI does 0.89, with FWD, costing $30 K.  Skidpad figures aren't the be all of course.  (Tires play a big role along with weight distribution.)

2021 Cadillac CT5 Review, Pricing, and Specs (caranddriver.com)

 (https://www.caranddriver.com/cadillac/ct5)An "ordinary" CT5 is at 0.92. 

The Merc would dust them both on a road course due to much higher power to weight.  But the pure handling is not something out of this world.  Sedans in the same price range would beat them.  I personally feel that top weight in any SUV I've driven, I'm pretty sure this Merc is one of the best.

2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing Gets a Glorious 668-HP V-8 and a Manual (caranddriver.com)

 (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35383882/2022-cadillac-ct5-v-blackwing-revealed/)This one would keep up on a track easily and comes with a manual transmission.  But, we don't drive on a track, usually.  I found it to be very exhausting personally, but I'm old. 

It reminds me of how I used to pass kids on a bike with some 18 speed bike in the wrong gear going up a hill, they had a bike costing 4x what mine cost but they didn't know even the basics, apparently, of how to ride it.  I still "lust" after a C8 Corvette, but where am I going to drive it at half it's potential?  I don't even stretch the GTI's.

https://robbreport.com/motors/cars/first-drive-2021-audi-sq8-1234571514/

you need to actually get out and drive these new, super SUV crossovers.  I have.  I chose this one.

The high end auto makers ( Benz, Audi, BMW, Even Lambo and Porsche) are concentrating all of their R&D and best engineers in this segment now/ because that’s what’s DOMINATING sales.

this awd SUV would MURDER a CT5 on a road course, let alone in a straight line.  Go check out Nurburgring times. The RSQ8 broke the record for Cross Over SUVs.

The Benz (GLE) is great.  I drove it 2 weeks ago. I just chose the Audi because I liked the styling and fit and finish better. And what you can do with this SUV in the twisties would blow your mind.

Sure- there are some exotic cars that can beat it, but not everyone wants a track car. Some people want a vehicle that you can haul the dogs on the golf clubs in and take on a cross-country trip no matter the season, and then come home and taking on a road course for a dragstrip and beat just about everybody there.

Let’s see what this big Caddy can do in the Ring.  Should be interesting.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29711782/audi-rs-q8-nurburgring-record/?_gl=1*bk89qg*_ga*YW1wLUdLRG5sMGhqRmxTNUxNaFE1SXFoam1CT280UTFfRjdVdjl4ZHlVRGR4azA2RnN0QTBqMGVEOGRQZGp5bmF5Y2I.

Lastly the CD time you posted is for the regular SQ8.  It does not have nearly the suspension hardware mine has- which is the identical to the RSQ8. ( built on the same platform as the Lambo Urus, Porche Cayenne and   Bentley Bentayga)

If you read the above article- it Shattered the previous SUV Ring time by seconds, previously held by the Benz GLC 63 AMG. 7 seconds is I lifetime on the ring. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 11, 2021, 12:00:43 PM

That's why you never give your town a nice name. 

Call it Stenchburg, or Locust Point, or Snake Pit... something that sounds completely undesirable to some a-hole from NY or CA. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 11, 2021, 12:04:01 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 11, 2021, 11:30:49 AM

Ooh you should try it - it's important the cheese is room temperature and finely shredded - then it gets a little melty by the dog and holds onto the hot sauce. When I studied in Oxford they had this street meat that was ok, but offered this super sharp hot sauce that really made it. I think the closest big brand I've had to it is Texas Pete's, so I try to keep that on hand.

I too have only had the Coney, and never once tried it over noodles. 

The worst part about the Coney was that steamed bun that turned into complete mush if you didn't wolf it down the instant it was served to you. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 11, 2021, 12:25:51 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 11, 2021, 11:40:54 AM

When you have something nice, chances are someone with a lot of money and little regard will also find it nice.

Granted, we might be in the midst of another housing bubble. I know I read some hedge funds are buying up property either to rent or just to hold onto. It seemed like the early low interest rates were good for folks early in the pandemic, but folks I know in cities in the market for a house are just throwing big offers out to no avail. Shoot, in my quiet little neighborhood, houses are being sold within a day of going on the market. And it's historically been a low-price kinda place (an improving downtown and proximity are helping).

I do not buy for a second that there is another housing bubble. Lot of little factors adding up to push prices up right now. You have huge pent up demand and literally no inventory, foreclosure freezes pushing prices up bc there's nothing cheap for people to try to steal on the market- and also new construction prices are higher due to skyrocketing materials prices & skyrocketing labor prices.

Last go 'round- any asshole and their mother could get a mortgage without proving income or proving in anyway they could pay the loan back. People were putting little to no down and getting 2-3-4 mortgages at a time to buy garbage spec homes from large national builders and developers that shit out shitbox cookie cutter houses. And then when shit hit the fan they say- here take the house back bank. That is not going on right now. Yes, interest rates are stupid low- but it's not exactly like they are rubber stamping mortgages like they were leading up to the crash in 2008-2009.

Right now? People are paying CASH like crazy for stuff. CASH MONEY.

And oh yeah- last time around- there was TONS of inventory. They were speculatively building shit EVERYWHERE and 99% of it made ZERO sense. There was ZERO reason or demand for it to even be built. No one lived in some of these towns- no one wanted to live there- and no one was actually ever going to live there in a million years. Master planned communities in the middle of f'ing NOWHERE where people would never in a million years want to actually live. Just shitting out 2,000 houses in master planned communities in butt-fk egypt towns in middle of nowhere where maybe 20,000 people max lived. That IS NOT going on right now. Developers last go 'round were letting people put down next to nothing pre-construction- when shit hit the fan people just walked away- they aren't doing that anymore. They are making people put real skin in the game. I know for example- the really expensive high-rise luxury shit in SoFL- those developers making people put up 40-50% up front now- and their condo unit is pretty much almost 100% paid for before it's even finished. They learned their lesson. And to be honest anyway- people who buy that kind of shit- they ALWAYS have money- no matter what the economy looks like for everyone else.

Problem is pent up demand, ZERO inventory, not enough new construction & SKYROCKETING new construction costs because of SKYROCKETING materials costs & labor is tight & harder to find right now than ever and to find any good labor it's EXPENSIVE as hell right now. Any skilled laborer or trades worth a shit is busy af right now and if you want to hire them they're going to charge a premium for their time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 11, 2021, 12:30:37 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 11, 2021, 11:37:20 AM

It's fine/good. I mean, if you like spaghetti with meat sauce, it's not really far from that.

If a person from Italy read this- they would want to fight you. LOL. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 11, 2021, 12:34:04 PM

The question is whether all the economic dislocation of COVID will cause a recession... Or if we see an inflation jump that pushes up rates.

I find it REALLY hard to find reasons the market will continue going up... Eventually you have to run out of people who can afford these payments, right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 11, 2021, 12:40:12 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 11, 2021, 12:34:04 PM

The question is whether all the economic dislocation of COVID will cause a recession... Or if we see an inflation jump that pushes up rates.

I find it REALLY hard to find reasons the market will continue going up... Eventually you have to run out of people who can afford these payments, right?

Every real estate market is different and unique unto itself. It will come back down to earth in areas where the craziness makes no sense whatsoever like Michigan or Ohio. It's not exactly like you have people with money moving there in droves. Once the demand starts slowing down and once the foreclosures kick into gear- that should push prices down because there will be a lot more inventory. Right now- there's no inventory. Low supply + high demand = high prices.

I suspect in an area like South Florida- where people with money are moving by the busloads daily- and where a lot of these people aren't having to afford payments- they are paying CASH- will probably continue for awhile longer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 11, 2021, 01:23:40 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 11, 2021, 12:00:43 PM

That's why you never give your town a nice name.

Call it Stenchburg, or Locust Point, or Snake Pit... something that sounds completely undesirable to some a-hole from NY or CA.

Or Ohio :93:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 11, 2021, 01:30:03 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 11, 2021, 12:40:12 PM

Every real estate market is different and unique unto itself. It will come back down to earth in areas where the craziness makes no sense whatsoever like Michigan or Ohio. It's not exactly like you have people with money moving there in droves. Once the demand starts slowing down and once the foreclosures kick into gear- that should push prices down because there will be a lot more inventory. Right now- there's no inventory. Low supply + high demand = high prices.

I suspect in an area like South Florida- where people with money are moving by the busloads daily- and where a lot of these people aren't having to afford payments- they are paying CASH- will probably continue for awhile longer.

Central Ohio is actually growing at a pretty steady clip. It's kind of crazy. One issue nationwide is there seems to be a lot of pushback on building anything that isn't either a single family home or an apartment/condo complex. Results in housing shortages and rising prices.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 11, 2021, 01:32:11 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 11, 2021, 12:25:51 PM

I do not buy for a second that there is another housing bubble. Lot of little factors adding up to push prices up right now. You have huge pent up demand and literally no inventory, foreclosure freezes pushing prices up bc there's nothing cheap for people to try to steal on the market- and also new construction prices are higher due to skyrocketing materials prices & skyrocketing labor prices.

Last go 'round- any asshole and their mother could get a mortgage without proving income or proving in anyway they could pay the loan back. People were putting little to no down and getting 2-3-4 mortgages at a time to buy garbage spec homes from large national builders and developers that shit out shitbox cookie cutter houses. And then when shit hit the fan they say- here take the house back bank. That is not going on right now. Yes, interest rates are stupid low- but it's not exactly like they are rubber stamping mortgages like they were leading up to the crash in 2008-2009.

Right now? People are paying CASH like crazy for stuff. CASH MONEY.

And oh yeah- last time around- there was TONS of inventory. They were speculatively building shit EVERYWHERE and 99% of it made ZERO sense. There was ZERO reason or demand for it to even be built. No one lived in some of these towns- no one wanted to live there- and no one was actually ever going to live there in a million years. Master planned communities in the middle of f'ing NOWHERE where people would never in a million years want to actually live. Just shitting out 2,000 houses in master planned communities in butt-fk egypt towns in middle of nowhere where maybe 20,000 people max lived. That IS NOT going on right now. Developers last go 'round were letting people put down next to nothing pre-construction- when shit hit the fan people just walked away- they aren't doing that anymore. They are making people put real skin in the game. I know for example- the really expensive high-rise luxury shit in SoFL- those developers making people put up 40-50% up front now- and their condo unit is pretty much almost 100% paid for before it's even finished. They learned their lesson. And to be honest anyway- people who buy that kind of shit- they ALWAYS have money- no matter what the economy looks like for everyone else.

Problem is pent up demand, ZERO inventory, not enough new construction & SKYROCKETING new construction costs because of SKYROCKETING materials costs & labor is tight & harder to find right now than ever and to find any good labor it's EXPENSIVE as hell right now. Any skilled laborer or trades worth a shit is busy af right now and if you want to hire them they're going to charge a premium for their time.

When there's pent up demand and prices are launching up, that sounds like a bubble, does it not? Especially when the excuse of "at worst, it's a rental property" seems to be on the tip of so many tongues. 

I mean, I live in a town that I like a lot, but it's not particularly popular. It ain't the kinda place houses should be selling a good bit over asking while hardly being on the market. 

At the least, sounds like a shit time for me to buy, which is AOK. I'm moving soon anyway, and the new town is more of a jungle on that front. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 11, 2021, 03:48:05 PM

3 types of hotdogs for me (all Nathan's)
quickest:  just yellow mustard
normal:  mustard and diced onions
fancy:  bacon, shredded cheese, bbq sauce

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 11, 2021, 03:53:13 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 11, 2021, 01:23:40 PM

Or Ohio :93:

Believe it or not I actually lived here for a year back in the late 80's, before I moved to Ohio. Same neighborhood and everything.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 11, 2021, 04:17:25 PM

Nurburgring times are interesting, but I'd opine a sports sedan would beat an SUV at equal cost, same make and power etc.  I agree the modern high end SUVs are very good, but I think the modern high end sports sedans drive better.

I've driven the BMW X5 with  the twin turbo V8 back to back with an M5 (BMW had a day where you could drive anything they had if you listened to a ten minute spiel).  The M5 to me felt a lot more controlled on the corners.  That was in 2015-6.

I'd guess the Caddy Blackwing would set a good 'ring time.  That course favors that sort of design, high power and RWD.

Cadillac CTS-V Breaks Nurburgring Record! (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/news/a14071/cadillac-cts-v-breaks-nurburgring-record/)

That last report is ancient relatively, but the Vs usually do well on the Ring.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2021, 04:32:46 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 11, 2021, 03:48:05 PM

3 types of hotdogs for me (all Nathan's)
quickest:  just yellow mustard
normal:  mustard and diced onions
fancy:  bacon, shredded cheese, bbq sauce

Vienna Beef hot dogs for me. Nathan's sucks, in my opinion.

Mustard, relish, onion, sport peppers. From here:


(https://i.imgur.com/9vARI8o.jpg)



https://geneandjudes.com


D (https://geneandjudes.com/)on't dare ask for ketchup. The McDonald's in the background will sell it to you for 50 cents per packet.


(https://i.imgur.com/NN4f5bC.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 11, 2021, 05:07:10 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 11, 2021, 11:58:29 AM

this awd SUV would MURDER a CT5 on a road course, let alone in a straight line.  Go check out Nurburgring times. The RSQ8 broke the record for Cross Over SUVs.

I didn't post anything about an Audi.  The previous Cadillac CTS-V matched that time on the ring, 7:42.  I'd guess the new version (CT5-V Blackwing) with more power and less weight will do better than that.  But that is impressive for an SUV, no doubt.  I've driven the V on COTA in Austin and it's a handful.  For an SUV to match is is surprising, but I doubt owners of either type drive the car at 10/10th often, if ever.  This is one reason I have not delved into really high performance vehicles other than for a day.  Is it better to have good fuel economy and comfort or high performance on paper than you never see except an occasional burst on an on ramp ...


Cadillac CTS-V Mk III specs, 0-60, quarter mile, lap times - FastestLaps.com

 (https://fastestlaps.com/models/cadillac-cts-v-mk-iii)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 11, 2021, 05:41:22 PM

My son improved his 9 hole score from his first round 64 to shoot a 47 today. And yet still probably had 5 strokes he could easily shave off with improved putting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 11, 2021, 05:45:19 PM

I grew up with a grimy place for links that was open until 4 am. Had a good chicken apple sausage and a bunch of other stuff. Can remember the condiments off hand, but ketchup is bad and whole grain mustard that clears your sinuses is the right way to be. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 11, 2021, 06:17:12 PM

Speaking of Green Hell lap times, I was poking about the interwebz and found this:

The 2020 C8 Corvette Lapped Nurburgring in 7:29.9 - The News Wheel (https://thenewswheel.com/the-2020-c8-corvette-lapped-nurburgring-in-729-9/#:~:text=Chevrolet is cooking up an,lap time%3A 7%3A29.9.)

That's pretty decent for the "base engine" (Z51).  The amusing thing is a Camaro is quite a bit faster.  That car is barely away from being a race car.

The Corvette’s lap time of 7:29.9 puts it within inches of the industry’s high-end supercars (https://thenewswheel.com/2020-corvette-c8-matches-lamborghini-huracans-lap-time/), including the McLaren MP4-12C and the Mercedes-Benz SLS Black Series. It’s also following close behind the Camaro ZL1’s record of 7:29.6. The Camaro ZL1 1LE model picked up the pace even more — it clocked in at 7:16.04.

VW Golf GTI Clubsport S beats its own Nürburgring record (motor1.com) (https://www.motor1.com/news/130577/vw-gti-clubsport-nurburgring-record/)

That isn't a US GTI of course, but it got under 8 minutes with a 7:47.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 11, 2021, 06:31:50 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 11, 2021, 04:17:25 PM

Nurburgring times are interesting, but I'd opine a sports sedan would beat an SUV at equal cost, same make and power etc.  I agree the modern high end SUVs are very good, but I think the modern high end sports sedans drive better.

I've driven the BMW X5 with  the twin turbo V8 back to back with an M5 (BMW had a day where you could drive anything they had if you listened to a ten minute spiel).  The M5 to me felt a lot more controlled on the corners.  That was in 2015-6.

I'd guess the Caddy Blackwing would set a good 'ring time.  That course favors that sort of design, high power and RWD.

Cadillac CTS-V Breaks Nurburgring Record! (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/news/a14071/cadillac-cts-v-breaks-nurburgring-record/)

That last report is ancient relatively, but the Vs usually do well on the Ring.

I owned that 09 CTS-V. I also got to drive it on the Monticello Road Course. That car was amazing.
it proves my point though.  I suggested that some of these new, highly engineered super suv vehicles are not only faster then many modern sedans, but they can be tossed around on a BRUTAL road course or canyon road.  I’m telling you, I took it out early this morning on some curvy roads and it inspires more confidence in the curves than my CTSV, or my BMW 550 M, or any other sedan I’ve ever owned.

The ring numbers prove it.  The SUV I just purchased ran a better ring time than that V!  Stop and think about that.  It beat the last corvette Z06 that tried the ring. It beat the Porche 911 GTS. Just look at the Ring lap times I posted, and the list of expensive sedans that it beat.

so you can opine if you wish, but your off on what is real in the car world.  Did you even look at what they engineered into that Audi to make its suspension System world class?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 11, 2021, 06:35:33 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 11, 2021, 06:17:12 PM

Speaking of Green Hell lap times, I was poking about the interwebz and found this:

The 2020 C8 Corvette Lapped Nurburgring in 7:29.9 - The News Wheel (https://thenewswheel.com/the-2020-c8-corvette-lapped-nurburgring-in-729-9/#:~:text=Chevrolet is cooking up an,lap time%3A 7%3A29.9.)

That's pretty decent for the "base engine" (Z51).  The amusing thing is a Camaro is quite a bit faster.  That car is barely away from being a race car.

The Corvette’s lap time of 7:29.9 puts it within inches of the industry’s high-end supercars (https://thenewswheel.com/2020-corvette-c8-matches-lamborghini-huracans-lap-time/), including the McLaren MP4-12C and the Mercedes-Benz SLS Black Series. It’s also following close behind the Camaro ZL1’s record of 7:29.6. The Camaro ZL1 1LE model picked up the pace even more — it clocked in at 7:16.04.

VW Golf GTI Clubsport S beats its own Nürburgring record (motor1.com) (https://www.motor1.com/news/130577/vw-gti-clubsport-nurburgring-record/)

That isn't a US GTI of course, but it got under 8 minutes with a 7:47.

So- knowing this Audi ran 7:42:03- don’t you agree it handles better than an extremely high % of sedans in the stree? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 11, 2021, 06:37:33 PM

I am unfamiliar with the Audi entirely.  I based my conclusions on the experience I described, they could be outdated, but top weight seems to me like an inherent physics problem.  If you put the same tech the Audi SUV has in an Audi SEDAN, which would be faster?  In the case of the BMWs, I favored the sedan, by a lot.

And I suspect the CT5 Blackwing will do pretty well on the 'Ring.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 11, 2021, 06:38:20 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 11, 2021, 06:35:33 PM

So- knowing this Audi ran 7:42:03- don’t you agree it handles better than an extremely high % of sedans in the stree? 

SPORTS sedans of equal cost?  I don't agree.

10 Fastest Sports Sedans Around The Nürburgring | HotCars (https://www.hotcars.com/fastest-sports-sedans-nurburgring/)

It would make the top ten list tied at number 6, which is amazing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 11, 2021, 06:47:56 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 11, 2021, 06:37:33 PM

I am unfamiliar with the Audi entirely.  I based my conclusions on the experience I described, they could be outdated, but top weight seems to me like an inherent physics problem.  If you put the same tech the Audi SUV has in an Audi SEDAN, which would be faster?  In the case of the BMWs, I favored the sedan, by a lot.

And I suspect the CT5 Blackwing will do pretty well on the 'Ring.

That’s the point you keep missing.  The technology they are using is turning the excess weight from a disadvantage to a distinct advantage for road holding. There is a 48 volt motor which is moving the anti roll braces under the vehicle to balance it and counter lean.  That’s just one example- BMW does not have that. Then there is the rest limited slip integrated with air suspension and rear steering. When I put my car in dynamic mode/ it lowers significantly.
There is more- how do you think it ran that time and is now the fastes suv to ever run the ring?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 11, 2021, 06:51:52 PM

I get your point just fine.  It's an amazing time and technology.  I don't think the top weight can be an advantage though, it's physics, even with complex adjustments.

But a sedan would be faster with the same type of technology.  I will say MOST SUVs don't handle as well as comparable sedans, there can always be an exception.

What do you think the Blackwing's time would be? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 11, 2021, 06:53:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 11, 2021, 06:51:52 PM

I get your point just fine.  It's an amazing time and technology.  I don't think the top weight can be an advantage though, it's physics, even with complex adjustments.

But a sedan would be faster with the same type of technology.  I will say MOST SUVs don't handle as well as comparable sedans, there can always be an exception.

What do you think the Blackwing's time would be?

I bet they get it under 8 minutes for sure.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 11, 2021, 06:59:55 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 11, 2021, 06:51:52 PM

I get your point just fine.  It's an amazing time and technology.  I don't think the top weight can be an advantage though, it's physics, even with complex adjustments.

But a sedan would be faster with the same type of technology.  I will say MOST SUVs don't handle as well as comparable sedans, there can always be an exception.

What do you think the Blackwing's time would be?

Well that is true in most cases.

I have 2 cars in my garage
The RS5 which I have substantial enhanced the suspension and power. 
And the SQ8.  The RS5 is faster.  But it is amazing in the corners. My SQ8 is faster in a curvy road. I proved this morning. Believe me- it still shocked me

The RS5 did very well on the ring.  8:10. 
They are pretty close in cost.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 11, 2021, 07:34:21 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 11, 2021, 06:53:35 PM

I bet they get it under 8 minutes for sure. 

The old CTS-V did 7:42.  The Blackwing has more power and less weight and is more modern.  I wonder what the take rate will be for the manual transmission in that car.  It would be slower in performance in any test except raw handling perhaps.

2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing First Look: A 668-HP Monster (motortrend.com)

T (https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-cadillac-ct5-v-blackwing-first-look-review/)he wife had the slowest CTS they make, the 2.0T with AWD and it was pretty reasonably fast for a regular car.  Oddly enough, the ride was a bit stiff I thought even though it had the MHD suspension.  I have a soft spot for Caddy obviously with their performance bing, but their naming is goofy.

Their SUVs they would give me for a loaner were horrible.  I realize they are not remotely sporty by intent.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 11, 2021, 07:44:11 PM

I will revise my guesstimate and say seven minutes and 30 seconds. The alpha platform architecture for that car is world class and competes easily with the Germans and I cannot believe they’re on their fourth generation of the magnetic ride control. I only got to try the first generation on my V card and it was magnificent.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 11, 2021, 07:46:47 PM

I'd guess 7:35.  With the automatic.

I can recall when breaking 8 was a THING.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 11, 2021, 09:47:03 PM

seems reasonable that lower center of gravity would be very valuable 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 11, 2021, 10:02:25 PM

The odd thing about this place is that I have no interest in these toys (I inherited a bland sort of pragmatism), but I just read through two pages about them with moderate interest. Weird. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 11, 2021, 10:24:31 PM

the common denominator is......... weird

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 11, 2021, 10:56:10 PM

I don't care much about the racing performance of an SUV, I simply like them for their utility.  The U part of SUV.

I prefer towing with an SUV over a pickup for many reasons, and if any manufacturers were still making an SUV that could tow 12,000 pounds, that's what I'd own.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 11, 2021, 11:04:13 PM

jack of trades

master of nothing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 12, 2021, 08:09:07 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 11, 2021, 11:04:13 PM

jack of trades

master of nothing

Oh I don’t know I think you can have it all.

an SUV i can load with dogs golf clubs and lots of other gear, Tow 7500 pounds which is two times the weight of my boat and trailer, run a quarter mile in under 12 seconds which is faster than 99% of the cars on the street, and lapped the Nuremberg Ring faster than 99% of the cars on the street.  Just “master”.  Lol.  I paid for it, but get lots if the “U”, World class levels of the “S” and massive tech and functionality like massaging seats with 8 settings, 3D sound system, and 360 camera view of the vehicle including a 3D Birdseye view.

To each their own as they say...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2021, 08:16:40 AM

Gonne drive one of these this week.

(https://i.imgur.com/qhBoUV0.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 12, 2021, 08:18:30 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 11, 2021, 01:23:40 PM

Or Ohio :93:

That does it. I'm going to have to find out where you live and move in next door to you. LOL

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 12, 2021, 09:03:54 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 12, 2021, 08:18:30 AM

That does it. I'm going to have to find out where you live and move in next door to you. LOL

There’s a house around the corner that’s going up for sale. It’s small, and I’m moving soon, much as it saddens me. 

Don’t know where I’m living in the new city. But I don’t know you’d like next door, wherever it is. I’d welcome you, for sure. The city does have some fancy lake living in outer burbs. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 12, 2021, 09:13:48 AM

Retire to the South
Florida

“A Florida senior citizen drove his brand new Corvette convertible out of the dealership.  Taking off down the road, he pushed it to 80 mph, enjoying the wind blowing through what little hair he had left.  "Amazing,” he thought as he flew down I-95, pushing the pedal even more.
Looking in his rear view mirror, he saw a Florida State Trooper, blue lights flashing and siren blaring  He floored it to 100 mph, then 110, then 120.  Suddenly he thought, “What am I doing? I’m too old for this!” and pulled over to await the trooper’s arrival.
Pulling in behind him, the trooper got out of his vehicle and walked up to the Corvette.  He looked at his watch, then said, “Sir, my shift ends in 30 minutes.  Today is Friday.  If you can give me a new reason for speeding – a reason I’ve never before heard – I’ll let you go..”
The old gentleman paused then said, “Three years ago, my wife ran off with a Florida State Trooper.  I thought you were bringing her back.”
“Have a good day, Sir,” replied the trooper.

Georgia
The owner of a golf course in Georgia was confused about paying an invoice, so he decided to ask his secretary for some mathematical help.
He called her into his office and said, “Y’all graduated from the University of Georgia and I need some help. If I wuz to give yew $20,000, minus 14%, how much would you take off?”
The secretary thought a moment, and then replied, “Everthang but my earrings”

Louisiana
A senior citizen in Louisiana was overheard saying, “When the end of the world comes, I hope to be in Louisiana .”
When asked why, he replied, “I’d rather be in Louisiana ‘cause everythang happens in Louisiana 20 years later than in the rest of the world.”

Mississippi
The young man from Mississippi came running into the store and said to his buddy, “Bubba, somebody just stole your pickup truck from the parking lot!”
Bubba replied, “Did y’all see who it was?”
The young man answered, “I couldn’t tell, but I got the license number.”

North Carolina
A man in North Carolina had a flat tire, pulled off on the side of the road, picked a bunch of flowers in the field and proceeded to put a bouquet of flowers in front of the car and one behind it.  Then he got back in the car to wait.
A passerby studied the scene as he drove by, and was so curious he turned around and went back.  He asked the fellow what the problem was.
The man replied, “I got a flat tahr.”
The passerby asked, “But what’s with the flowers?”
The man responded, “When you break down they tell you to put flares in the front and flares in the back. I never did understand it neither.”

Tennessee
A Tennessee State trooper pulled over a pickup on I-65. The trooper asked, “Got any ID?”
The driver replied, “Bout whut?”

Texas
The Sheriff pulled up next to the guy unloading garbage out of his pick-up into the ditch  The Sheriff asked, “Why are you dumping garbage in the ditch?  Don’t you see that sign right over your head.”
“Yep,” he replied. “That’s why I’m dumpin’ it here, ‘cause it says: ‘Fine For Dumping Garbage.’”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2021, 09:35:20 AM

I used to get asked what kind of car someone should buy.  Well, there is no answer without a lot of questions being answered.  If you have $100 K to spend and want an SUV, you definitely can get something superb, either track capable or imminently comfortable, or you could get an EV soonish.

If you want to spend $20 K on a new car, your options obviously get limited.  But you can still get something decent even there.  Cars today are really good, nearly all of them.  

Those Dodges with the very loud exhausts are popular around here, folks like showing them off, either they took out the mufflers or they can bypass them.  I think they are pretty crappy vehicles aside from straight lines.  And making noises.

Practicably speaking, I have always thought a FWD minivan was an exceptionally practical conveyance, if you don't need to tow and don't car much about driving excitement.  I owned two for many years while I had kids.  The sliding door was great.

I see a lot of Porsches around here also, 911s and Boxster types.  But again, where can you drive such a car at 8/10ths?  They are mostly status symbols, I'd guess many of the drivers never push them, just as many SUV owners never go on a dirt road.

 My step son drove a GT3 on the Porsche experience track here near the airport, he said it was great fun, I'll probably do that someday soonish, probably with the Cayman.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 12, 2021, 10:04:09 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 12, 2021, 09:35:20 AM

I used to get asked what kind of car someone should buy.  Well, there is no answer without a lot of questions being answered.  If you have $100 K to spend and want an SUV, you definitely can get something superb, either track capable or imminently comfortable, or you could get an EV soonish.

If you want to spend $20 K on a new car, your options obviously get limited.  But you can still get something decent even there.  Cars today are really good, nearly all of them. 

Was never fond of Corporate America but they have taken nauseating greed to a level that even I didn't think they would.Mechanic friend was telling me about how many models you can't even read your tire pressure with a simple guage any more.Each valve has it's individual sensor in it now and you have your read out on the dash digital readout.That sensor goes bad - 150.00 smackers,that's not covered under the drive train warranty.Many can't afford this heinous goughing.Those cocks don't deserve prosperity

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 12, 2021, 11:22:29 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 12, 2021, 10:04:09 AM

Was never fond of Corporate America but they have taken nauseating greed to a level that even I didn't think they would.Mechanic friend was telling me about how many models you can't even read your tire pressure with a simple guage any more.Each valve has it's individual sensor in it now and you have your read out on the dash digital readout.That sensor goes bad - 150.00 smackers,that's not covered under the drive train warranty.Many can't afford this heinous goughing.Those cocks don't deserve prosperity

kinda makes my 2001 Buick Regal look pretty good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 12, 2021, 11:26:08 AM

Part of why I loved my '95 Jeep was that I could actually work on it.  I could go from stranded on the highway to back limping home, if needed.  In my '18 hatchback, I can't even attach jumper cables to the battery terminals (halfway up under the dashboard).

And the GD tire pressure sensor goes off every 2 weeks, because it's so sensitive.  I wish I could disable it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2021, 11:36:44 AM

I've had three cars with TPO sensors and none had this problem, including the 2018.  I had not heard about it.

How Does a Tire Pressure Monitoring System Work? (motorbiscuit.com) (https://www.motorbiscuit.com/how-does-a-tire-pressure-monitoring-system-work/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 12, 2021, 11:39:15 AM

The guy at the tire shop told me they're sensitive, I don't know the exact PSI that sets it off.  
It may be a temperature thing (Phx in the summer) or it could just be that I'm lucky it's sensitive, because living in one ghetto and working in another makes for some sharp and prickly roads.  
Maybe I should go work in Scottsdale, where the streets are flat, clean, and manicured.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2021, 11:46:46 AM

I was losing pressure in a tire in the GTI not long after I bought it.  Once a week I'd have to put air in it, it got annoying.  They found a tiny nail in it, too near the sidewall, so I replaced it.  I would not have noticed its being low pressure without the TPMS.  It looked fine, and I don't routinely check pressure any more, or anything else.

I doubt the car makers added them to make more profit when they break.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 12, 2021, 11:50:55 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2021, 08:16:40 AM

Gonne drive one of these this week.

(https://i.imgur.com/qhBoUV0.png)

Spectacular! The vehicle I just got is built on that same platform

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 12, 2021, 12:50:51 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 12, 2021, 11:46:46 AM

I was losing pressure in a tire in the GTI not long after I bought it.  Once a week I'd have to put air in it, it got annoying.  They found a tiny nail in it, too near the sidewall, so I replaced it.  I would not have noticed its being low pressure without the TPMS.  It looked fine, and I don't routinely check pressure any more, or anything else.

I doubt the car makers added them to make more profit when they break.

Yeah, those sensors have alerted me to nails/screws that have been picked up in tires several times. Probably wouldn't have noticed until they were REALLY low otherwise. 

With the exception of sometimes them starting to trigger when the temps get "cold" in the winter because of the change in air density, I've never had one fail on me that I can recall. 

I'm having some issues with the rain-sensing wipers in the Flex, though... Not even sure where to begin with that crap. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2021, 12:55:04 PM

2021 Porsche Macan Review, Pricing, and Specs (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche/macan)

The car across from us is a black Macan that the wife really likes.  There are very capable vehicles, this probably would be my choice among the breed.

With a refined chassis, strong turbocharged engines, and a comfortable cabin, the 2021 Porsche Macan is dual-purpose package unlike any other vehicle on the road today. It's equally at home tearing it up at a track day as it is running Sunday errands. Performance is impressive (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a25441380/2019-porsche-macan-s-drive/), and the Macan's suspension is poise personified: taut while cornering but not so firm that it sacrifices ride comfort on the work commute. It's this flexibility that earned the Macan a place on our 2021 10Best list (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a34690757/10best-2021-porsche-macan/) as well as an Editors' Choice award (https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a35536605/2021-editors-choice/). All-wheel drive is standard, and buyers can pick from one of three turbocharged engines. Some auto enthusiasts may kvetch about the infiltration of SUVs (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g27257734/best-suvs/)—and we're guilty of similar complaints—but with the Macan, there are so few compromises that it deserves respect from even the most ardent SUV detractors.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 12, 2021, 01:05:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 12, 2021, 12:55:04 PM

2021 Porsche Macan Review, Pricing, and Specs (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche/macan)

The car across from us is a black Macan that the wife really likes.  There are very capable vehicles, this probably would be my choice among the breed.

With a refined chassis, strong turbocharged engines, and a comfortable cabin, the 2021 Porsche Macan is dual-purpose package unlike any other vehicle on the road today. It's equally at home tearing it up at a track day as it is running Sunday errands. Performance is impressive (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a25441380/2019-porsche-macan-s-drive/), and the Macan's suspension is poise personified: taut while cornering but not so firm that it sacrifices ride comfort on the work commute. It's this flexibility that earned the Macan a place on our 2021 10Best list (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a34690757/10best-2021-porsche-macan/) as well as an Editors' Choice award (https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a35536605/2021-editors-choice/). All-wheel drive is standard, and buyers can pick from one of three turbocharged engines. Some auto enthusiasts may kvetch about the infiltration of SUVs (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g27257734/best-suvs/)—and we're guilty of similar complaints—but with the Macan, there are so few compromises that it deserves respect from even the most ardent SUV detractors.

Kind of what I was saying yesterday. 
if they offered a v8 I would have considered it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2021, 01:15:55 PM

Yeah, my kvetching is probably out of date on SUVs, at least higher end more capable types.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2021, 01:28:57 PM

FTR, I'll be driving the Cayenne. The Macon is too small.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 12, 2021, 01:39:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 12, 2021, 01:15:55 PM

Yeah, my kvetching is probably out of date on SUVs, at least higher end more capable types.

Maybe, maybe not.

I think you have a point. The higher CG of an SUV is not a good thing. Which means that the best SUVs will be worse at handling than the best sedans / coupes / sports cars. 

And HB has a point as well. The best SUVs are better at handling than all BUT the best sedans / coupes / sports cars. 

It's truly impressive that you have near-supercar performance in an SUV... It's still not truly supercar performance, but it's damn close enough for the type of people who are driving on public roads, and it's a much more versatile vehicle at the same time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 12, 2021, 02:46:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 12, 2021, 11:46:46 AM

I was losing pressure in a tire in the GTI not long after I bought it.  Once a week I'd have to put air in it, it got annoying.  They found a tiny nail in it, too near the sidewall, so I replaced it.  I would not have noticed its being low pressure without the TPMS.  It looked fine, and I don't routinely check pressure any more, or anything else.

I doubt the car makers added them to make more profit when they break.

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 12, 2021, 12:50:51 PM

Yeah, those sensors have alerted me to nails/screws that have been picked up in tires several times. Probably wouldn't have noticed until they were REALLY low otherwise.

With the exception of sometimes them starting to trigger when the temps get "cold" in the winter because of the change in air density, I've never had one fail on me that I can recall.

I'm having some issues with the rain-sensing wipers in the Flex, though... Not even sure where to begin with that crap.

I drove to Vegas and back with a fat nail in my tire.  The car is 2 years old and I"ve replaced 3 of the tires already.  Everything out here is prickly and sharp and pepples everywhere.....I miss grass and water and mulch and not getting a flat tire every 6 months.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on April 12, 2021, 03:24:12 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 10, 2021, 04:38:58 PM

It's a kind of brownish gruel served over over cooked spaghetti noodles optionally topped with cheese, onions, and even deep fried jalapenoes, optionally contained beans.

The origins are Mediterranean apparently, and several places claim it.  You can order it from two way up to six way.

Heard a chef say that it is basically a Bolognese sauce.  I think most people say it was a couple of Greek restaurateurs invention. I think the issue most people have with it, it that it is called "chili"  when it is obvious not spiced like what most people call chili.

Personally I miss it at time and will generally stop and get some when I get back to cincinnati. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 12, 2021, 05:49:58 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 11, 2021, 11:04:13 PM

jack of trades

master of nothing

If it meets more of my needs than ANY AND ALL of the alternatives, is it really a master of none?  The 3/4 ton Suburbans were absolutely the master of meeting my needs.  The only problem, is that GM no longer makes them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 12, 2021, 06:06:43 PM

It's a balance.

Most people can't have half a dozen vehicles, each one a dedicated tool that perfectly performs the needs of that day. 

And everyone, not just Maslow, has a hierarchy of needs. 

Some people value performance and handling higher than others. Some people value cargo capacity and rear passenger legroom higher than others. Some people value towing higher than others [many who value it not at all]. Some people value safety highest. Some people value cool factor highest. Etc etc etc.

Each of those people need to balance their needs with the exception. 

I.e. if someone is a single person living in a small apartment, they might prefer a small sporty car that doesn't have tons of cargo room. In that case the "exception" is that anytime you need to haul something you're begging favors from someone with a truck or going and renting a truck, or you're spending extra money for delivery of items that you could have transported yourself if you'd bought a bigger vehicle. 

For me, the top need is to have a family hauler. Literally my entire selection process was based around that as priority #1, and accomplishing that while avoiding driving a minivan was priority #2 lol... But my "exception" was that I have a fun car already, the Jeep. It was paid off and so all it costs me is registration/insurance money, so I didn't really worry about Nurburgring times for my family hauler. 

SUVs are popular for a lot of reasons, but that they do a lot of things for a lot of uses is a big one... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 12, 2021, 06:24:07 PM

For sure.  It's always a matter of personal needs, and personal taste.

What I'd REALLY love, is the styling, frame, and axles of the 2005 Chevy Suburban Z71 4x4 3/4 ton, but with the current Ford 3.5L Twin Turbo Ecoboost and 10-speed transmission.  That would be a fantastic daily driver as well as a superior towing beast.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 12, 2021, 06:47:32 PM

BTW I saw my first Mustang Mach-E this morning. Not the worst looking car, and a little bit stylish. Tail lights are a bit screwy though...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 12, 2021, 09:45:00 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 12, 2021, 06:06:43 PM

It's a balance.

Most people can't have half a dozen vehicles, each one a dedicated tool that perfectly performs the needs of that day.

And everyone, not just Maslow, has a hierarchy of needs.

Some people value performance and handling higher than others. Some people value cargo capacity and rear passenger legroom higher than others. Some people value towing higher than others [many who value it not at all]. Some people value safety highest. Some people value cool factor highest. Etc etc etc.

Each of those people need to balance their needs with the exception.

I.e. if someone is a single person living in a small apartment, they might prefer a small sporty car that doesn't have tons of cargo room. In that case the "exception" is that anytime you need to haul something you're begging favors from someone with a truck or going and renting a truck, or you're spending extra money for delivery of items that you could have transported yourself if you'd bought a bigger vehicle.

For me, the top need is to have a family hauler. Literally my entire selection process was based around that as priority #1, and accomplishing that while avoiding driving a minivan was priority #2 lol... But my "exception" was that I have a fun car already, the Jeep. It was paid off and so all it costs me is registration/insurance money, so I didn't really worry about Nurburgring times for my family hauler.

SUVs are popular for a lot of reasons, but that they do a lot of things for a lot of uses is a big one...

A friend was telling me about some marketing seminar he was in that described every product you buy as something you in essence hire to do something for you. Her example was an SUV. She was hiring it to do all the big vehicle things, but she was hiring it as a secondary reason to not make her feel like a soccer mom.

And I hire old Toyotas because I enjoy the feeling of something I don't have to finance and can try to squeeze a lot of life out of. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 12, 2021, 10:06:12 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 12, 2021, 06:47:32 PM

BTW I saw my first Mustang Mach-E this morning. Not the worst looking car, and a little bit stylish. Tail lights are a bit screwy though...

also a bit screwy, cause, Mustangs don't have 4 doors

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 12, 2021, 10:41:40 PM

I guess I get the idea of leveraging the Mustang brand name which is among Ford's strongest, but it also potentially endangers that brand with dilution/erosion effects.

Bottom line it's not a Mustang.  Maybe they should have tried to resurrect another Ford marque that has more to do with utility?  They're already using Bronco, maybe Ranchero or something.  Badging it as any version of a Mustang just seems weird.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 13, 2021, 12:00:33 AM

Oh, agree. It's not a Mustang. I feel strongly about that in a way that I still accept the new mid engine Corvette or would completely accept an EV Mustang.

But a 4 door CUV Mustang? Sacrilege.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 13, 2021, 09:32:47 AM

could have called it a T-Bird

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 13, 2021, 10:29:40 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 12, 2021, 11:22:29 AM

kinda makes my 2001 Buick Regal look pretty good

or my 2002 VW

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2021, 11:20:05 AM

We saw a Mustang EV in DC, the daughter liked it, said she would look into it, she wants an EV next, she's sort of on an eco thing.  She's driving my 2012 Chevy Sonic LTZ now.  I agree it's not a Mustang and think that's a mistake.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2021, 11:33:16 AM

Real life photo from one of my wine classes:

(https://i.imgur.com/uoQ2rb2.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 13, 2021, 11:44:05 AM

They should call it the Clydesdale, lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 13, 2021, 11:59:06 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 13, 2021, 12:00:33 AM

Oh, agree. It's not a Mustang. I feel strongly about that in a way that I still accept the new mid engine Corvette or would completely accept an EV Mustang.

But a 4 door CUV Mustang? Sacrilege.

A mustang is a horse 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 13, 2021, 12:37:27 PM

At a Halloween party I attended last fall, a Ford engineer had just returned from Detroit where she picked a Mustang EV up to drive around. She took me out to show the car to me. It had some pretty cool features, but I told her that it was NOT a Mustang. They should have called it something else, but it was NOT what I or other Mustang lovers would ever consider a Mustang. 

I don't think she cared what I thought. ~???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 13, 2021, 01:18:30 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 13, 2021, 11:59:06 AM

A mustang is a horse

A Mustang is a North American WW2 fighter plane.  The P-51.

(https://i.imgur.com/s6Xnd5H.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 13, 2021, 01:20:38 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 13, 2021, 01:18:30 PM

A Mustang is a North American WW2 fighter plane.  The P-51. D

(https://i.imgur.com/s6Xnd5H.png)

Complete name

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 13, 2021, 01:21:46 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 13, 2021, 12:00:33 AM

Oh, agree. It's not a Mustang. I feel strongly about that in a way that I still accept the new mid engine Corvette or would completely accept an EV Mustang.

But a 4 door CUV Mustang? Sacrilege.

Yeah as long as it appeared as a 2-door American-style muscle/sportscar, then I'd be okay with a fully EV Mustang.

I realize not everyone agrees with me, but it wouldn't bother me, as long as it was built to look cool and be quick, with no ideas of function or utility at all, considered in the design. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 13, 2021, 01:35:07 PM

Ed Zachery

just don't put 4 doors on it

and try to be a bit cognizant of the taillights

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 13, 2021, 02:01:54 PM

Doors on a horse will never work!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 13, 2021, 03:36:30 PM

Counterpoint:

(https://i.imgur.com/7f8e0rk.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2021, 03:46:39 PM

A mustang is an enlisted noncomm who was promoted to the commissioned officer ranks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 13, 2021, 04:26:25 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 13, 2021, 01:18:30 PM

A Mustang is a North American WW2 fighter plane.  The P-51.

(https://i.imgur.com/s6Xnd5H.png)

That’s a funny lookin’ horse

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2021, 04:42:03 PM

So, my new Dell comes with McAffee installed, and at times it is SLOW as molasses in winter time to upload something, relative to my 8 year old Dell.

I figure it's the antivirus, which I never had on the old one.  So, after much searching, I finally manage to turn off at least one part of it, and now it nags me all the time to turn it back on.

Annoyed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 13, 2021, 05:10:13 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 13, 2021, 01:18:30 PM

A Mustang is a North American WW2 fighter plane.  The P-51.

(https://i.imgur.com/s6Xnd5H.png)

My second favorite WWII Fighter. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2021, 05:14:43 PM

F-4U Corsair

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 13, 2021, 05:58:14 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 13, 2021, 04:42:03 PM

So, my new Dell comes with McAffee installed, and at times it is SLOW as molasses in winter time to upload something, relative to my 8 year old Dell.

I figure it's the antivirus, which I never had on the old one.  So, after much searching, I finally manage to turn off at least one part of it, and now it nags me all the time to turn it back on.

Annoyed.

why dont you just uninstall it

not a good idea to go with no virus protection though

I use McAffee and it does not slow my system down

there are a lot of good antivirus programs out there

find one you like and install it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 13, 2021, 06:13:09 PM

I use free Avast

it keeps reminding me that I need to upgrade to a version that costs money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 13, 2021, 06:33:53 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 13, 2021, 06:13:09 PM

I use free Avast

it keeps reminding me that I need to upgrade to a version that costs money

McAfee costs about $50 a year and you can install it on up to 5 computers at once

not the best one out there but there are a lot that are worse

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 13, 2021, 07:01:09 PM

if I don't have a computer virus that costs me $50 per year or $100 in the past 5 years, why would I pay for anti-virus?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 13, 2021, 07:04:09 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 13, 2021, 07:01:09 PM

if I don't have a computer virus that costs me $50 per year or $100 in the past 5 years, why would I pay for anti-virus?

to each his own

at least you have some virus protection which is better then some

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 13, 2021, 07:42:10 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 13, 2021, 01:18:30 PM

A Mustang is a North American WW2 fighter plane.  The P-51.

With a Rolls Royce Merlin Engine.Used the original Allison Engine which was supposedly faster but had problems over 14-15,000 feet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 13, 2021, 07:45:02 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 13, 2021, 03:36:30 PM

Counterpoint:

(https://i.imgur.com/7f8e0rk.png)

Counterpoint
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2PdyxMtiYM

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 13, 2021, 07:48:06 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on April 13, 2021, 05:10:13 PM

My second favorite WWII Fighter.

SuperMarine SpitFire?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 13, 2021, 08:05:47 PM

This person had a great start in life, an early exotic present:
 Mr. Allen Swift:  Born - 1908 - Died  2010 owned and drove the same car for 82 years!
 Can you imagine even having the same car for 82 years?  Mr. Allen Swift (Springfield , Massachusetts) received this 1928 Rolls-Royce Piccadilly-P1 Roadster from his father, brand new - as a graduation gift in 1928.
  He drove it up until his death in 2010 at the age of 102.  He was the oldest living owner of a car that was purchased new...thought you'd like to see it. 
 Rolls Royce Phantom I 1928
 It was donated to a Springfield museum after his death.
It has 1,070,000 miles on it, still runs like a Swiss watch, dead silent at any speed and is in perfect cosmetic condition.
82 years - That's approximately 13,048 miles per year (1087 per month).
 1,070,000 that's miles not kilometres.
 That's British engineering of a bygone era.
I don't think they make them like this anymore..


(https://i.imgur.com/xeiJNKI.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 13, 2021, 08:10:33 PM

Herschel Walker,Johnny  Rodgers, Eric Crouch, Mike Rozier, at the Jet Award Gala

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-0/p180x540/173736666_4524891484192579_1018139383946254423_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Fh1FyLWc7DMAX857hLN&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=899d1f42a27a50c1962c343fe9b84cab&oe=609C3C5D)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 13, 2021, 08:27:34 PM

Windows Defender for me. Never had a problem in all the years we've used it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 13, 2021, 11:52:57 PM

taxes are filed

turbo tax - Intuit wasn't my friend, but I persevered 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on April 13, 2021, 11:54:12 PM

Now, I can't see Herschel's midsection, but he just looks like a guy that could suit up, still.    B/t him, Jerry Rice and Gary Player, those guys seem to be ageless.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on April 13, 2021, 11:58:06 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 13, 2021, 11:52:57 PM

taxes are filed

turbo tax - Intuit wasn't my friend, but I persevered

Still stick with the preparer (only because they run my wife's group's accounting, and we pay next to nothing for it as individuals).   I will say the total # of pages on the return are down by about 20% since 2017, not that it is indicative of much of anything,  takes up less space in the file cabinet I guess.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 14, 2021, 12:03:52 AM

simple issue of the payers name being more than 28 characters on the 1099-DIV form

went thru the fed just fine, Iowa didn't like it and couldn't find where to edit it w/o help

I beat my head against the rock for an hour before asking for help - then it took support 20 minutes to find it.

things could simply work better

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 14, 2021, 03:41:25 AM

Did Crouch give his Heisman to Grossman yet?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 14, 2021, 08:25:38 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 13, 2021, 11:52:57 PM

taxes are filed

turbo tax - Intuit wasn't my friend, but I persevered

Actually getting some coin back,Tax changes a couple of years back were not friendly - to me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 14, 2021, 08:28:45 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ac1nECE1P0

How much to maintain a Bugatti

PS - it's for the 1% of the 1 %

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 14, 2021, 10:03:38 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 14, 2021, 03:41:25 AM

Did Crouch give his Heisman to Grossman yet?

I'd happily give Crouch's trophy to Grossman if Eddie George would give his up to Tommie Frazier

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 14, 2021, 10:15:36 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 14, 2021, 10:03:38 AM

I'd happily give Crouch's trophy to Grossman if Eddie George would give his up to Tommie Frazier

I'm still waiting for the committee to hand over Reggie Bush's rescinded trophy to Vince Young.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 14, 2021, 10:50:03 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 14, 2021, 10:15:36 AM

I'm still waiting for the committee to hand over Reggie Bush's rescinded trophy to Vince Young.

Did seasons become 1-game?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 14, 2021, 11:09:29 AM

Vince was pretty good the entire season

Reggie was cheating the entire season

it's all about the entire season

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 14, 2021, 11:11:56 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 14, 2021, 10:50:03 AM

Did seasons become 1-game?

Good question, you'd have to ask the Heisman committee when they decided to give it to Bush as a result of his one game against Fresno State.  Lemme know when they get back to you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 14, 2021, 11:16:46 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 14, 2021, 11:11:56 AM

Good question, you'd have to ask the Heisman committee when they decided to give it to Bush as a result of his one game against Fresno State.  Lemme know when they get back to you.

One could probably go either way, but Bush did have a hell of a season. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 14, 2021, 11:17:55 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 14, 2021, 11:16:46 AM

One could probably go either way, but Bush did have a hell of a season.

Same is true of all the others discussed above...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 14, 2021, 11:18:32 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 14, 2021, 11:09:29 AM

Vince was pretty good the entire season

Reggie was cheating the entire season

it's all about the entire season

Saying “Bush was cheating” the entire season is kinda inaccurate. His team might have cheated to get him, but his family having a house didn’t really affect his play. 

It’s not like he was in PEDs or anything. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 14, 2021, 11:20:31 AM

let's just say he was ineligible that season 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 14, 2021, 11:27:08 AM

So of the 22 starters in that 2006 RB, only Bush received things he shouldn't?
Mkay.  

I honestly live in a different universe than some of you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 14, 2021, 11:28:23 AM

a better look at Herschel's mid-section

Legends Night with Mike Garatt and Herschel Walker, Bryan Wilson, Tim Clark, Pee Wee Les Harrison Richard Webb and Johnny Rodgers !

Mike Garatt USC 1965 Heisman Winner is the Legends Winner!

(https://scontent.fdsm1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p843x403/173399014_4524879047527156_6681211625212914053_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=jIDvYwYMe_sAX92gZg9&_nc_ht=scontent.fdsm1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=5f40351578234f026ec417cdef3b6608&oe=609D0460)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 14, 2021, 11:29:07 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 14, 2021, 11:27:08 AM

So of the 22 starters in that 2006 RB, only Bush received things he shouldn't?
Mkay. 

I honestly live in a different universe than some of you.

Dude, he got caught.

Blame Pete the Cheat!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 14, 2021, 11:30:26 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 14, 2021, 11:20:31 AM

let's just say he was ineligible that season

But as an actual football player, very possibly the best. 

(I don’t know he was clearly better than young, but I don’t really see much argument young was clearly better either, in the actual period for which the award is given)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 14, 2021, 11:38:57 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 14, 2021, 10:03:38 AM

I'd happily give Crouch's trophy to Grossman if Eddie George would give his up to Tommie Frazier

You need to stay out of the 19th Hole and away from the Beer Cart !!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 14, 2021, 11:41:18 AM

Bush vs Fresno:  23 car, 294 yds, 2 TD
Bush vs UCLA:  24 car, 260 yds, 2 TD...vs a much better team and rival, the very next game.
.
VY:  65% comp, 3000 yds passing, 26 TD, 10 INT, 164 rat
155 car, 1000 yds, 6.8 ypc, 12 TD
38 total TD.....very good pass rating....amazing yards per carry, except...
.
his RB averaged 7.4 yards per carry.  

Bush averaged 8.7 ypc for the season on 200 carries.  5th-best all-time and 2nd behind Pruitt if you up the carries threshold.  2nd-highest....ever.   He won the Heisman in a landslide WITH his own teammate taking some votes away, finishing 3rd.

And if you take Young's best game away, pffft, forget it, he's another Michael Bishop or Joe Hamilton (you may have to look them up - fellow Heisman runners-up).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 14, 2021, 11:42:00 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 14, 2021, 11:29:07 AM

Dude, he got caught.

Blame Pete the Cheat!

Wait, so VY was more elusive and thus, didn't get caught?!?!?     j/k

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 14, 2021, 11:44:55 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 14, 2021, 11:27:08 AM

So of the 22 starters in that 2006 RB, only Bush received things he shouldn't?
Mkay. 

I honestly live in a different universe than some of you.

Did anyone say that? 

Bush is being brought up because he's the only one of those 22 starters who won a Heisman and then had it stripped. 

The other 21 are irrelevant to that discussion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 14, 2021, 11:45:45 AM

I think Young's legacy isn't that he was snubbed for the Heisman, but that he showed a QB can shoulder the load running the ball and he may have been the first of his kind.  More players like him began populating teams and HCs stopped treating their QBs with kid gloves, letting them risk injury.  So while Young may have been the first high-volume passer-runner, better players came along and expanded on that (Tebow, Newton, etc).  
.
I think that legacy is plenty good and just for a great player who had a great season, but is probably overrated for one all-time great game.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 14, 2021, 11:46:11 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 14, 2021, 11:44:55 AM

Did anyone say that?

Bush is being brought up because he's the only one of those 22 starters who won a Heisman and then had it stripped.

The other 21 are irrelevant to that discussion.

I guess he should've held onto it with 2 hands.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 14, 2021, 11:46:51 AM

FWIW, Frazier gets the same treatment as Young, thanks to his game vs Florida. 

(ducks and covers)

He produced under 2,000 total yards and "only" 31 total TDs.  Kind of a Rocket Ismail syndrome.  Your eyes say WOW, but his actual production is MEH.  Ismail only scored 6 TDs when he was runner-up for the Heisman.  Isn't that insane?  6.  Rushing + receiving + returns.  6.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 14, 2021, 11:54:24 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 14, 2021, 11:45:45 AM

I think Young's legacy isn't that he was snubbed for the Heisman, but that he showed a QB can shoulder the load running the ball and he may have been the first of his kind.  More players like him began populating teams and HCs stopped treating their QBs with kid gloves, letting them risk injury.  So while Young may have been the first high-volume passer-runner, better players came along and expanded on that (Tebow, Newton, etc). 
.
I think that legacy is plenty good and just for a great player who had a great season, but is probably overrated for one all-time great game.

Oh I don't really care about the Heisman.  2005 wasn't the first year, and it wasn't the last year, that the best player was passed over. :)

I'm just jawing.  I'm happy Vince played at Texas, and really wish he had come back for his senior year.

Sometimes, I think he wishes that too.  He's admitted openly that he was very immature when he entered the NFL, and that it affected his relationships with coaches and teammates, and ultimately his production at that level.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 14, 2021, 11:56:15 AM

You'd think NFL teams would vet maturity, lol.  

I hate when kids leave early then don't even get drafted.  That's rough.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 14, 2021, 11:57:46 AM

except Eddie averaged 5.9 on 328 carries

in his big game, THE GAME

Timmy runs for a record 313 yards in Michigan's 31-23 win over Ohio State

and it overshadowed a 105-yard, one touchdown game by Ohio State's highly touted Heisman Trophy hopeful, Eddie George.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 14, 2021, 12:03:05 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 14, 2021, 11:56:15 AM

You'd think NFL teams would vet maturity, lol. 

I hate when kids leave early then don't even get drafted.  That's rough.

I think they try a lot of the time, but young strikes me as an example of the it only takes one asshole principal.

I remember watching one kid who left early, didn’t get drafted, and was pretty much OK with it. He, correctly, knew that his quarterback situation was about to go from very good very bad, and he knew he wasn’t getting much faster and he wasn’t getting much taller, and he was already a high-end technician on the field with very good statistics.

it helped that he had a very good family situation to fall back on, but he ultimately worked himself in the league and got I think one decent contract

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 14, 2021, 12:50:05 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 14, 2021, 12:03:05 PM

I think they try a lot of the time, but young strikes me as an example of the it only takes one asshole principal.

I remember watching one kid who left early, didn’t get drafted, and was pretty much OK with it. He, correctly, knew that his quarterback situation was about to go from very good very bad, and he knew he wasn’t getting much faster and he wasn’t getting much taller, and he was already a high-end technician on the field with very good statistics.

it helped that he had a very good family situation to fall back on, but he ultimately worked himself in the league and got I think one decent contract

And that kid, was Albert Einstein.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 14, 2021, 01:02:24 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 14, 2021, 11:38:57 AM

You need to stay out of the 19th Hole and away from the Beer Cart !!!

too windy for Golf this afternoon

going to the Bronson Bar about 5:30 for broasted hot wings and cold long neck bottles of Bud

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 14, 2021, 01:09:07 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 14, 2021, 01:02:24 PM

too windy for Golf this afternoon

going to the Bronson Bar about 5:30 for broasted hot wings and cold long neck bottles of Bud

back when I played the wind would have to be hurricane force to be too windy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 14, 2021, 01:17:44 PM

you are from Houston!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 14, 2021, 02:31:51 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 14, 2021, 01:02:24 PM

too windy for Golf this afternoon

going to the Bronson Bar about 5:30 for broasted hot wings and cold long neck bottles of Bud

Hope you run into Eddie George

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 14, 2021, 02:47:10 PM

Eddie does the runnin, remember?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 14, 2021, 02:53:53 PM

If he's standing in the rough and you're teeing off well then yes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 14, 2021, 03:05:36 PM

I have been known to run on the golf course occasionally, if the beer cart tries to get away.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 14, 2021, 06:19:26 PM

There's nothing like dragging two little kids to the oldest's track and field meet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 14, 2021, 08:22:48 PM

Much better parenting than sending them to an unknown border situation caused for no apparent reason.

For that I commend you. 

:72:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on April 14, 2021, 08:52:54 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 14, 2021, 11:28:23 AM

a better look at Herschel's mid-section

Legends Night with Mike Garatt and Herschel Walker, Bryan Wilson, Tim Clark, Pee Wee Les Harrison Richard Webb and Johnny Rodgers !

Mike Garatt USC 1965 Heisman Winner is the Legends Winner!

[img width=234.333 height=534 alt=May be an image of 7 people, people standing and indoor]https://scontent.fdsm1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p843x403/173399014_4524879047527156_6681211625212914053_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=jIDvYwYMe_sAX92gZg9&_nc_ht=scontent.fdsm1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=5f40351578234f026ec417cdef3b6608&oe=609D0460[/img]

Still has a washboard I bet.  Did I ever tell you that Johnny the Jet was a student in my Geology course at UNL in....1996!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 14, 2021, 09:22:34 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 14, 2021, 08:22:48 PM

Much better parenting than sending them to an unknown border situation caused for no apparent reason.

For that I commend you.

:72:

Heh well I hope some immigrants make there way to Ohio.  We could use some more good restaurants.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 14, 2021, 09:29:55 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 14, 2021, 09:22:34 PM

Heh well I hope some immigrants make there way to Ohio.  We could use some more good restaurants.

They will.  They are getting stimulus checks. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 14, 2021, 09:48:18 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 14, 2021, 09:29:55 PM

They will.  They are getting stimulus checks.

Trump's best legacy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 15, 2021, 06:46:42 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 14, 2021, 09:48:18 PM

Trump's best legacy

Such fake news.   You know that.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 15, 2021, 06:51:25 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 14, 2021, 06:19:26 PM

There's nothing like dragging two little kids to the oldest's track and field meet

Did you happen to venture up to Mansfield for a track meet? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 15, 2021, 06:52:42 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 14, 2021, 09:22:34 PM

Heh well I hope some immigrants make there way to Ohio.  We could use some more good restaurants.

I don't. We already have too many people living off the gov't teat. We don't need to swell their ranks. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2021, 07:01:51 AM

The subway here used to have color coded lines, red, blue, green, yellow ... but the yellow line runs up through what has become an area dominated with Asians (and Hispanics).  Some really good restaurants up that way.  Anyway, the yellow line now is known as the Gold line.  They changed the term.

We don't have any typical Korean restaurants in walking distance (the Korean Fried Chicken place is good and close by).  So, we drive out there on occasion, there also is a good Malaysian place next door to the Korean place with the unusual name "Food Terminal", and they just opened a branch fairly near us, have not tried it yet.  They do an okra dish that I favor.  An Indian place near us does okra also, interesting to me.  I thought okra was African in origin, related to hibiscus.


Chamblee Menu — Food Terminal (https://www.foodterminal.com/chambleemenu)


(https://i.imgur.com/w6kzPGe.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 15, 2021, 07:19:54 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 15, 2021, 06:46:42 AM

Such fake news.  You know that. 

Buddy I don't even know what we are talking about

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 15, 2021, 07:20:52 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 15, 2021, 06:51:25 AM

Did you happen to venture up to Mansfield for a track meet?

No, just a local one - my oldest daughter is a freshman in high school 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 15, 2021, 07:25:48 AM

Chicago's CTA brown line goes through pretty rich areas.

(https://i.imgur.com/bP2Pda3.png)

Yellow and purple are also very good areas. Purple goes to Northwestern. Go figure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2021, 07:27:40 AM

I was throwing a rubber baseball on the practice tennis court yesterday and had the wife make some short video clips.  The good news is my arm speed is way up.  But I notice my torso looks really stiff.  So, flexibility.

It is pretty much summer here already, though it got chilly last night.  It's 59°F at the moment, headed to only 70°F, so we had a cold front that was supposed to bring rain but didn't really.  I have a veritable garden on the deck and have had to water it incessantly.  The wife is seeing about having an outside spigot installed.  Our plumber is an extremely nice very tall bald African American gentleman.  He puts on booties before entering the place, he did some repair work after we moved in.  He's one of the nicest fellows I've ever met, extremely polite.  I don't know anything about his history.  

I sometimes wonder if we started ignoring race if we could ignore race.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 15, 2021, 07:27:52 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 15, 2021, 07:19:54 AM

Buddy I don't even know what we are talking about

It’s all good. 
I am engrossed in watching video of the peaceful riots in Minnesota last night, or a peaceful water bottle was thrown and struck a CNN crewmember peacefully in the head, and he peacefully lost consciousness and fell to the ground. Then the peaceful mob, peacefully chased them to their car while peacefully throwing more objects at them. Then the peaceful CNN crew peacefully tried to drive away well peaceful objects including eggs And water bottles were peacefully thrown at their car.😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2021, 07:30:04 AM

There are after all some peaceful protests, maybe most of them in general, but they can deteriorate into mayhem and violence, and looters take advantage of the distractions to loot.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2021, 07:58:58 AM

Speaking of food choices, this place has been an amazing success and is expanding.  The was THE Sears store when we moved here in 1964.

Ponce City Market expansion on pace for early summer debut | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/ponce-city-market-restaurants-shops-expansion)

(https://i.imgur.com/5mZzIR0.jpg)

The restaurants are all decent enough, but nothing stands out to me, yet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 15, 2021, 08:09:00 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 15, 2021, 07:01:51 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/w6kzPGe.png)

While the presentation is nice,it doesn't scream "must have" to me.Looks like OKRA which IMO is just mushy sustenance - good fried but then again what isn't

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 15, 2021, 08:53:38 AM

Where's the BEEF?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 15, 2021, 08:53:47 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 15, 2021, 08:09:00 AM

While the presentation is nice,it doesn't scream "must have" to me.Looks like OKRA which IMO is just mushy sustenance - good fried but then again what isn't

+1

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 15, 2021, 09:49:13 AM

One thing that I love about living in large metro areas is the variety of food... Can't wait for everything to reopen to the point where there's full indoor dining again so I can go back here: https://www.garlicandchives.com/ (https://www.garlicandchives.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2021, 09:53:02 AM

Everything is open here inside and out, most folks prefer out because the weather is great right now.  I love okra in all its forms, but then I also like grits and sweet potatoes and black eyed peas and fresh green beans and tomatoes, etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 15, 2021, 10:01:03 AM

Everything is open in Florida too. Has been for almost a year.

Illinois not so much.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on April 15, 2021, 10:29:06 AM

For those on Twitter, this college football account posts Sportscenter briefs of old games, mostly from the 90s & 2000s:

https://twitter.com/ClassicsCFB/status/1381004921747632128

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 15, 2021, 10:41:10 AM

Indoor dining in Austin has been open to about 75% for a while, it's now officially open to 100% and some places were at 100% a while back.

Despite the governor's mandates, places in the suburbs and out in the country, have pretty much been open 100% (with very little masking) since last May.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 15, 2021, 04:14:12 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 13, 2021, 05:14:43 PM

F-4U Corsair

Yep, that is my #1. The Mustang was a great plane but the Corsair was arguably better AND could take off from and land on carriers. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 15, 2021, 04:28:53 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on April 15, 2021, 04:14:12 PM

Yep, that is my #1. The Mustang was a great plane but the Corsair was arguably better AND could take off from and land on carriers.

Both were designed for different purposes

Corsair was a carrier fighter with shorter range requirements in the Pacific

P51 was a long range bomber escort in Europe

Both had 3 guns on each wing

Corsair was slightly larger and about 10mph faster 440mph vs 450mph

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 15, 2021, 04:35:43 PM

I like the Mustang better, because the original Ford Mustang was (at least partially) named after it.

(https://i.imgur.com/Z6WMLfO.jpg)


(https://i.imgur.com/UEpx9vA.png)


(https://i.imgur.com/bCIIgX9.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 16, 2021, 09:13:01 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 15, 2021, 07:20:52 AM

No, just a local one - my oldest daughter is a freshman in high school

All three of my kids ran HS track with my oldest being all Ohio her Junior and Senior year. She would also run at the Mehock relays every year in Mansfield. It used to be one of the largest HS track meets in the country pulling in over 350 teams from six states and Canada. I only ask because you mentioned going to a really large track meet. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 16, 2021, 10:57:09 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 16, 2021, 09:13:01 AM

All three of my kids ran HS track with my oldest being all Ohio her Junior and Senior year. She would also run at the Mehock relays every year in Mansfield. It used to be one of the largest HS track meets in the country pulling in over 350 teams from six states and Canada. I only ask because you mentioned going to a really large track meet.

Heh no not nearly that big. She's a freshman so more or less just starting out. She ran the 100 and 200 the other night, and the 100 is close to beginning of the meet and the 200 near the end. So entertaining my 6 and 8 year olds is...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 16, 2021, 12:42:31 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 16, 2021, 10:57:09 AM

Heh no not nearly that big. She's a freshman so more or less just starting out. She ran the 100 and 200 the other night, and the 100 is close to beginning of the meet and the 200 near the end. So entertaining my 6 and 8 year olds is...

I'm hip. My kids ran in a variety of events. My oldest was all state in the 100, 200 and 400. So as you say, we got there early and stayed late. My youngest was about 6 when my oldest was a Freshman, so I understand where you are coming from.

My other two also ran the 4x400 relay which meant that we got to stay for the very last event. And there were some cold evenings during track. While I do miss seeing my kids compete, I enjoy NOT having to go to a track meet 2 or 3 times a week. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2021, 12:51:11 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 15, 2021, 04:28:53 PM

Both were designed for different purposes

Corsair was a carrier fighter with shorter range requirements in the Pacific

P51 was a long range bomber escort in Europe

Both had 3 guns on each wing

Corsair was slightly larger and about 10mph faster 440mph vs 450mph

We had a lot of differently designed fighters used late in WW 2.  The Navy (and Marine Corps) had a critical need for carrier landings for obvious reasons.  The Corsair initially had problems landing, but the British sorted it out, and it was a rare situation where the Marines got a front line fighter early because the Navy didn't think they could use it.

The Marines often flew off island bases.  The P51 used an Allison built (under license) version of the famous Merlin V-12 engine.  That and it's wing design gave it long range (and drop tanks).  The P47 was an interesting fighter as well, enormous, and the P38 is a favorite of mine also, very unusual layout.

Then there is the F6F Hellcat that the Navy did like.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 16, 2021, 01:28:45 PM

If I had been a fighter pilot in WW2 Id want a P51 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2021, 02:07:23 PM

If I'd been a naval aviator, I'd want an F6F.

The Germans built some capable fights also, the FW-190D comes to mind.  The Me-262 was ultra fast but limited in range.  Many shot down were coming in for a landing, and many crashed on landing.  The Soviet Yak-9 was credible.  The Brit Spitfire was very maneuverable and lasted the entire war in various marks.

Early in the war, I probably would have chosen the Zero Sen, long range, good firepower, and very nimble, but no armor or self sealing tanks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 16, 2021, 02:39:13 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 16, 2021, 01:28:45 PM

If I had been a fighter pilot in WW2 Id want a P51

Nowadays, fighter pilots use a PS-5 from the comfort of their own living rooms, more or less.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 16, 2021, 02:59:30 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2021, 02:07:23 PM

If I'd been a naval aviator, I'd want an F6F.

The Germans built some capable fights also, the FW-190D comes to mind.  The Me-262 was ultra fast but limited in range.  Many shot down were coming in for a landing, and many crashed on landing.  The Soviet Yak-9 was credible.  The Brit Spitfire was very maneuverable and lasted the entire war in various marks.

Early in the war, I probably would have chosen the Zero Sen, long range, good firepower, and very nimble, but no armor or self sealing tanks.

the yak wasnt fast and had less then great fire power but they were very rugged and designed to land on very bad run ways as the soviets didnt really have quality places to land and take off

no thanks on the zero
it would be like flying a maneuverable match box

nothing wrong with the FW-190D fast with good armament 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 16, 2021, 03:34:23 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2021, 12:51:11 PM

The Marines often flew off island bases.  The P51 used an Allison built (under license) version of the famous Merlin V-12 engine.  

Packard built the American Merlin. Allison built the original P51 engine which was very good at low altitudes but could not compete with contemporary German and British fighters at high altitudes due to insufficient supercharging, thus the switch to the Rolls Royce designed Merlin.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 16, 2021, 03:45:50 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 16, 2021, 02:59:30 PM

no thanks on the zero
it would be like flying a maneuverable match box

Agreed.

One of the tragedies of war is that for some reason Chennault's Flying Tigers' experiences fighting against the Zero while flying for the Chinese prior to Pearl Harbor were either not reported back to the US or were not taken seriously.

Due to this failure American pilots had to learn how to defeat the Zero from scratch. Unfortunately, an untold number of American pilots paid for these lessons with their lives when they got into hopeless low speed turning contests with the more nimble Zeros.

Eventually American pilots learned to NEVER try to out maneuver a Zero as doing so was almost always fatal and instead to maintain high airspeed and blast away at the flimsy Zeros during high speed passes. They also learned that while the lightweight Zeros could climb very well, their dive speed was limited by their lightweight construction so, as long as you had altitude to burn, you could always escape a Zero by going into a full power dive.

Countless American lives would have been saved if the early war American pilots had learned these lessons in training based on Chennault's experiences rather than having to learn them in live warfare.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2021, 03:49:43 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on April 16, 2021, 03:34:23 PM

Packard built the American Merlin. Allison built the original P51 engine which was very good at low altitudes but could not compete with contemporary German and British fighters at high altitudes due to insufficient supercharging, thus the switch to the Rolls Royce designed Merlin.

Yeah, thanks for the correction.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2021, 03:55:24 PM

There was the Thatch Weave developed to fight the Zero using the F4Fs that was pretty successful, but early in the war, Japanese pilots had superb training and often combat experience.  They would have beaten our fliers if they switched planes.  But early in the war, the Zero was a very capable long range fighter in good hands.  

You had naval aviators flying F4Fs (mostly) who would not have known about the Flying Tigers at the time.  The branches didn't play well together.

Very few fighters available in 1939 were still in use in 1945 in front line service, with more developed marks.  I'm trying to think:

Zero
Spitfire
Me-109

The P-38 and P-40 were still in use, I think, but relegated to other than front line work, I think.  Anything else?  

I'm impressed how many pilots we trained to fly advanced aircraft.  I never got past a Cessna 172.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 16, 2021, 03:57:36 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2021, 12:51:11 PM

The P51 used an Allison built (under license) version of the famous Merlin V-12 engine.  That and it's wing design gave it long range (and drop tanks).  The P47 was an interesting fighter as well, enormous, and the P38 is a favorite of mine also, very unusual layout.

The P51 used a Packard built Merlin made stateside and was improved by the the Bendix Carb which performed close to the Fuel Injection the German ME 109s had

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2021, 02:07:23 PM

The Brit Spitfire was very maneuverable and lasted the entire war in various marks.

The later models(Spit) were quite a bit faster than the Mustang that was actually quite a bit bigger - it could hold a lot more fuel.The Spit was a better in tight fighter.The Mustang for the long hauls that escorted and protected the B-17s/B-24s/Lancasters for the raids over the Reich.As Air Marshall Hermann Goering supposedly said "When I saw Mustangs over Berlin, I knew the jig was up" aware of the strategic consequences of this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 16, 2021, 04:00:04 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2021, 03:55:24 PM

There was the Thatch Weave developed to fight the Zero using the F4Fs that was pretty successful, but early in the war, Japanese pilots had superb training and often combat experience.  They would have beaten our fliers if they switched planes.  But early in the war, the Zero was a very capable long range fighter in good hands. 

A brilliant counter stroke considering the state of affairs at that time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 16, 2021, 04:04:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2021, 03:55:24 PM

Very few fighters available in 1939 were still in use in 1945 in front line service, with more developed marks.  I'm trying to think:

Zero
Spitfire
Me-109

Focke Wulf fw 190
Edit - it wasn't introduced until '42,P-51 did not enter production until '41

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 16, 2021, 04:05:02 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on April 16, 2021, 03:34:23 PM

Packard built the American Merlin. Allison built the original P51 engine which was very good at low altitudes but could not compete with contemporary German and British fighters at high altitudes due to insufficient supercharging, thus the switch to the Rolls Royce designed Merlin.

which I think was the advent of the P-51 D version

they could now compete effectively against the German fighters as they could operate at 15,000 ft altitudes while maintaining their range

When the D version arrived on the scene The Germans just had no answer for it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 16, 2021, 04:08:04 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2021, 03:55:24 PM

There was the Thatch Weave developed to fight the Zero using the F4Fs that was pretty successful, but early in the war, Japanese pilots had superb training and often combat experience.  They would have beaten our fliers if they switched planes.  But early in the war, the Zero was a very capable long range fighter in good hands. 

You had naval aviators flying F4Fs (mostly) who would not have known about the Flying Tigers at the time.  The branches didn't play well together.

Very few fighters available in 1939 were still in use in 1945 in front line service, with more developed marks.  I'm trying to think:

Zero
Spitfire
Me-109

The P-38 and P-40 were still in use, I think, but relegated to other than front line work, I think.  Anything else? 

I'm impressed how many pilots we trained to fly advanced aircraft.  I never got past a Cessna 172.

well hell CD just stick 6 50 caliber guns on those wings and you would fit right in

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 16, 2021, 04:09:56 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 16, 2021, 04:05:02 PM

which I think was the advent of the P-51 D version

they could now compete effectively against the German fighters as they could operate at 15,000 ft altitudes while maintaining their range

When the D version arrived on the scene The Germans just had no answer for it

The Focke Wulf 190 was more than a match the problem by that time was not enough - pilots,fuel,planes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2021, 04:15:17 PM

The FW-190A had a V engine, the D model had a rotary engine.  One factor in all of this was US produced very high octane fuel.  We could make it, the Germans couldn't.  They resorted to techniques like water and methanol injection.

Interestingly, one of the guys who helped developed high octane aviation fuel was a Shell Chemical engineer named Jimmy Doolittle.  He later was their head of R&D.  They have a large framed painting of him at their Westhollow Research Center, which they otherwise would have named after him.  He had a PhD in chemical engineering.

I think he also did something during the war ... some ridiculously impossible.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2021, 04:20:27 PM

My Dad was a radar operator on a B-24 in the SW Pacific.  On his 13th mission (he had flown antisub patrols out of Langley earlier), they had a "runaway supercharger", and had to go back for another plane.  This one later went down, my Dad doesn't know what happened, in the ocean.  He thinks the heavy radar dome hit the water first and tore the fuselage in half and he floated out, he was unconscious and hurt.  The copilot went through the windscreen, and the flight engineer followed, the only three to survive.

They were picked up by a US destroyer in the morning.  My Dad and the copilot badly hurt, the flight engineer, a Lt. Lamica, kept them afloat during the night.  I met the copilot once, his forehead was at a strange angle.  My Dad was finally awarded a Purple Heart in 1970 something.  So, now I have two in my possession.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 16, 2021, 04:22:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2021, 04:15:17 PM

 He had a PhD in chemical engineering.

I think he also did something during the war ... some ridiculously impossible.

You chemical guys get to experiment with things

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 16, 2021, 04:22:38 PM

Getting off the WWII aircraft topic, I'll ask something else that you old farts might know about...

Anyone have experience with a Theragun or other percussive massage guns? 

My wife gets huge knots in her upper back from sitting in an office chair all day, and I feel like my body is more knot than muscle at this point. I can usually work hers out, but she doesn't have enough hand strength to really effectively work on me. 

Been thinking about one of these for a while, and wondering if anyone has used them. Looks like there are a lot of "off brand" versions at Amazon, so can get into this without paying hundreds and hundreds for the Theragun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 16, 2021, 04:23:10 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2021, 02:07:23 PM

If I'd been a naval aviator, I'd want an F6F.

The Hellcat was a heck of a fighter as well. 

FWIW, the (F6F), Corsair (F4U), and Thunderbolt (P47) were all powered by the same engine, the Pratt & Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_%26_Whitney_R-2800_Double_Wasp). This was a 46L (2,800 cu in) 18 cylinder double bank radial engine of 2,100 hp and more than 125k were built.

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2021, 02:07:23 PM

The Germans built some capable fights also, the FW-190D comes to mind.  The Me-262 was ultra fast but limited in range.  Many shot down were coming in for a landing, and many crashed on landing.

The ME262 was well beyond it's time and a great plane but simply a case of too little, too late for the Germans. They built about 1,400 and many of those never got operational for various logistical reasons as the third Reich collapsed. By contrast the US built more than 15,000 Mustangs and more than 15,000 Thunderbolts while the British built more than 20,000 Spitfires and 4,000 of their own jet, the Meteor.

You probably already know this, but the high number of 262's shot down while landing (and also while on the ground, and taking off) was not due to some design defect, it was because the American and British pilots knew they couldn't keep up with the German Jet in flight but they vastly outnumbered the Luftwaffe at that point in the war so they simply took up station over the German airfields and destroyed the German jets when they were at their most vulnerable either taking off and getting up to speed or landing while low (often critically low) on fuel and ammunition.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 16, 2021, 04:26:09 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2021, 04:20:27 PM

They were picked up by a US destroyer in the morning.  My Dad and the copilot badly hurt, the flight engineer, a Lt. Lamica, kept them afloat during the night.  I met the copilot once, his forehead was at a strange angle.  My Dad was finally awarded a Purple Heart in 1970 something.  So, now I have two in my possession.

Incredible,I know you mentioned this years back,thanx for sharing.Hard to believe hypothermia or Whitetip Sharks did not get them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2021, 04:27:19 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 16, 2021, 04:22:38 PM

Anyone have experience with a Theragun or other percussive massage guns?

My PT lady used one one me at every sessions.  My trapezius was really really tight post-op.  She tried manual stimulation and said she couldn't get into it.  The hammer thingee seemed to work some.  Mostly I needed time to recover.

She said it was a common side effect to the surgery I had.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2021, 04:31:48 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/jSMarSe.png)

I loathed group projects, fortunately I didn't have many.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 16, 2021, 04:46:04 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2021, 03:55:24 PM

Zero
Spitfire
Me-109

The difference between the Zero and the other two is that the Spitfire and ME-109 were both improved dramatically as the war ground on.

I read a book on the Spitfire that was a collection of short stories written by pilots from different times within the Spitfire's operational life. One of the last chapters was by a postwar British pilot who flew a late WWII Spitfire from a base in what is now Israel immediately before the British withdrew and ceded the territory to the Israelis and Syrians. Everybody knew that there was going to be a war as soon as the British left and both sides were concerned that British equipment would be given to the other side. Anyway, their base was attacked by unidentified Spitfires so he and a wingman were sent up in Spitfires to identify and destroy the attackers.


As it turned out the attackers were Syrians flying Battle-of-Britain era Spitfire Mk 5's and he described it as child's play to take them out with his Mk19.

My point is that 1945 Spitfires and Me-109's bore only a superficial resemblance to 1940 Spitfires and Me-109's. This was NOT the case for the Japanese Zero. The Zero's flying in defense of Okinawa in April of 1945 were exactly the same as the Zeros that took off from the Combined Fleet's carriers early on the morning of December 7, 1941.

To be fair, the Japanese did design a very credible replacement for the Zero but they lacked the logistics, productive capacity, and fuel to build anything more than a few prototypes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 16, 2021, 04:49:49 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2021, 04:20:27 PM

My Dad was a radar operator on a B-24 in the SW Pacific.  On his 13th mission (he had flown antisub patrols out of Langley earlier), they had a "runaway supercharger", and had to go back for another plane.  This one later went down, my Dad doesn't know what happened, in the ocean.  He thinks the heavy radar dome hit the water first and tore the fuselage in half and he floated out, he was unconscious and hurt.  The copilot went through the windscreen, and the flight engineer followed, the only three to survive.

They were picked up by a US destroyer in the morning.  My Dad and the copilot badly hurt, the flight engineer, a Lt. Lamica, kept them afloat during the night.  I met the copilot once, his forehead was at a strange angle.  My Dad was finally awarded a Purple Heart in 1970 something.  So, now I have two in my possession.

Wow, thankfully the Navy at least found them the next day. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 16, 2021, 04:53:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2021, 04:15:17 PM

Interestingly, one of the guys who helped developed high octane aviation fuel was a Shell Chemical engineer named Jimmy Doolittle.  He later was their head of R&D.  They have a large framed painting of him at their Westhollow Research Center, which they otherwise would have named after him.  He had a PhD in chemical engineering.

I think he also did something during the war ... some ridiculously impossible.

I read 30 Seconds Over Tokyo in about the sixth grade.  On  a tactical level,, Doolittle's raid was a ridiculous failure. All the planes and many of their crews were lost for only negligible damage inflicted.

On a strategic level it was successful beyond anyone's wildest dreams. Those guys had serious guts!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2021, 04:55:29 PM

Hanover Company To Start Foundation Work For 40-Story Midtown Project | What Now Atlanta (https://whatnowatlanta.com/hanover-company-to-start-foundation-work-for-40-story-midtown-project/?fbclid=IwAR0k6roTSD2v5WCytQ-QBfwES0b_iWAuO7GdyJrntoMCIFsQdYrTPclxRbQ)

Another project about to start near me.  I hear construction materials are at a premium now, especially wood.  I should buy some wood company, after seeing all the cardboard boxes Amazon uses I wanted to buy some cardboard producer, but didn't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 16, 2021, 05:38:49 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on April 16, 2021, 04:53:31 PM

I read 30 Seconds Over Tokyo in about the sixth grade.  On  a tactical level,, Doolittle's raid was a ridiculous failure. All the planes and many of their crews were lost for only negligible damage inflicted.

On a strategic level it was successful beyond anyone's wildest dreams. Those guys had serious guts!

Imagine the reaction in this country had the Japanese done something similar and hit San Francisco or LA or both

course we were already pissed from Pearl Harbor 

Had they taken Midway that might have happened

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 16, 2021, 07:18:36 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 16, 2021, 04:22:38 PM

Getting off the WWII aircraft topic, I'll ask something else that you old farts might know about...

Anyone have experience with a Theragun or other percussive massage guns?

My wife gets huge knots in her upper back from sitting in an office chair all day, and I feel like my body is more knot than muscle at this point. I can usually work hers out, but she doesn't have enough hand strength to really effectively work on me.

Been thinking about one of these for a while, and wondering if anyone has used them. Looks like there are a lot of "off brand" versions at Amazon, so can get into this without paying hundreds and hundreds for the Theragun.

Get one. They are nothing short of amazing. They remove knots and if you’re sore from working out they reduce the recovery time in half or better. Amazing. That’s why so many professional sports teams and athletes use them. Not to be a dick, but go all in and get a real one and not a knock off.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on April 16, 2021, 08:05:51 PM

Where's CWS on this topic?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 16, 2021, 09:44:58 PM

Hasn't posted in 3 months - hope everythings OK

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 17, 2021, 08:16:48 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 16, 2021, 04:22:38 PM

Getting off the WWII aircraft topic, I'll ask something else that you old farts might know about...

Anyone have experience with a Theragun or other percussive massage guns?

We have this one and we love it.


Belmint Percussion Handheld Massager, Six Massage Heads, Adjustable Massaging Direction for Muscles, Back, Neck, Shoulders and Legs - Walmart.com - Walmart.com

 (https://www.walmart.com/ip/Belmint-Percussion-Handheld-Massager-Six-Massage-Heads-Adjustable-Massaging-Direction-for-Muscles-Back-Neck-Shoulders-and-Legs/922912094?athcpid=922912094&athpgid=athenaItemPage&athcgid=null&athznid=PWVUB&athieid=v0&athstid=CS020&athguid=2a01bfca-008-178dfc2793b4da&athancid=null&athena=true)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2021, 09:25:56 AM

Quote from: MarqHusker on April 16, 2021, 08:05:51 PM

Where's CWS on this topic?

I had an email from him this week, so he's fine.  I mailed him my three books, he read the first one and had useful feedback.  I will mail three to bwarny if he sends me his mailing address, if he wishes.  He had very helpful comments on Book One as well.  Some friends and relatives read Book One, but they just say it's great, which is nice, but not as helpful as constructive critique.  The wife said Two was a better read, and I think it is as well.  I was reading Book 3 when we were in DC and think it's better than some of the tripe I've gotten from the library.  It's difficult not to have errors of course.  Book 4 is getting complicated.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 17, 2021, 10:02:51 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 17, 2021, 09:25:56 AM

I had an email from him this week, so he's fine.  I mailed him my three books, he read the first one and had useful feedback.  I will mail three to bwarny if he sends me his mailing address, if he wishes.  He had very helpful comments on Book One as well.  Some friends and relatives read Book One, but they just say it's great, which is nice, but not as helpful as constructive critique.  The wife said Two was a better read, and I think it is as well.  I was reading Book 3 when we were in DC and think it's better than some of the tripe I've gotten from the library.  It's difficult not to have errors of course.  Book 4 is getting complicated.

Yeah, I need to start reading again... Was reading tons during all the lockdowns, but that sorta fell off during football and college basketball season and with playing a lot more golf. 

I'll grab the Kindle versions on Amazon--I rarely read paper books any more.

Agree with you on friends/relatives. I get the same thing when they taste my beer. "Oh, it's great!" I have to take to my homebrew buddies if I want real critique. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 17, 2021, 10:23:50 AM

Yeah, I've learned not to honestly critique anything that someone is proud of/worked hard on. 

They will ask for criticism like they really want it, then react as though kicked in the groin if it is anything short of glowing praise. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2021, 10:25:48 AM

I did NOT expect vibrators to make an appearance in this thread.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 17, 2021, 10:39:45 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 16, 2021, 04:22:38 PM

Getting off the WWII aircraft topic, I'll ask something else that you old farts might know about...

Anyone have experience with a Theragun or other percussive massage guns?

My wife gets huge knots in her upper back from sitting in an office chair all day, and I feel like my body is more knot than muscle at this point. I can usually work hers out, but she doesn't have enough hand strength to really effectively work on me.

Been thinking about one of these for a while, and wondering if anyone has used them. Looks like there are a lot of "off brand" versions at Amazon, so can get into this without paying hundreds and hundreds for the Theragun.

Forget the sissy ass wand, go getcha one of these massage belts by TruMedic. About 100 bucks, give or take. You can adjust the pressure by tugging with your arms. You can really dig down deep if you want to. You can do your legs, or lay down and go up and down your entire back. 

You'll thank me later. 
(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/bcd386d5-5152-42b0-9a8b-55f13725db30_1.e04388efd56d3fc4ecdf520d46836dd3.jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=ffffff)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 17, 2021, 10:40:55 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 17, 2021, 10:23:50 AM

Yeah, I've learned not to honestly critique anything that someone is proud of/worked hard on.

They will ask for criticism like they really want it, then react as though kicked in the groin if it is anything short of glowing praise.

That's usually the case, but if you know someone is truly trying to hone a craft, they are the type that appreciate honesty. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 17, 2021, 10:41:37 AM

Interesting: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/hard-drive-ssd-shortages-imminent-if-new-cryptocurrency-blooms

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 17, 2021, 11:15:18 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 17, 2021, 10:02:51 AM

Agree with you on friends/relatives. I get the same thing when they taste my beer. "Oh, it's great!" I have to take to my homebrew buddies if I want real critique.

Send the suds my way,I'll take one for the team and accept this tremendous burden you have placed on them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 17, 2021, 11:29:23 AM

 I think all politicians should wear uniforms. You know, like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2021, 12:35:34 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 17, 2021, 10:40:55 AM

That's usually the case, but if you know someone is truly trying to hone a craft, they are the type that appreciate honesty.

Yeah, that's me, I need the criticism, it's a favor to me.  I'm not looking for "I loved it!".  I can't improve my writing if I don't get another perspective, like the very useful note to introduce more conflict, which I've learned is hard to do for some reason.  I keep thinking about how to do it, but one critic told me the book read well but was like a "travel log", somebody hereabouts in fact.  I took that to heart, because it was spot on.  You need conflict of a sort to resolve later to keep a reader interested.

If any of you are ever interested in self publishing, the Amazon/Kindle thing works well, you get a paperback for about $4 each of your own design.  They look good, I think, though mine could look better, I didn't want a copyright issue on the cover photo.  You could write your family history, or an autobiography, whatever.  Usually you need about 50,000 words.  Fortunately I type fast.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2021, 12:40:11 PM

The beer thing reminded me of my wine classes back in the day (since taken over by a protege).  A thing I hate is folks who try and come up with more obscure terms to describe a wine so they sound like they know something.  

You know the best wines I have ever had?  They lack some pronounced taste feature.  They are BALANCED, in CHARACTER, and really good.  And that's about all I can say about them, and I think all that needs to be said.

In character means a Chablis that tastes like the quintessential Chablis.  Chablis is a small area in northern France where an outcropping of limestone happened to be near the surface.  (Kimmerridgian).   They can only grow chardonnay, and the best ones are exquisite.  Technically, it's part of Burgundy.  But I digress.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 17, 2021, 02:22:39 PM

Im trying to get my 2001 Buick Regal safety inspection they say the cars computer has to be reset from when I replaced a battery and the power was cut off

anyway they said to go out and drive the car 40 to 60 miles and it should reset

Ive driven the car close to 80 miles and the computer still has not reset

anyone have any suggestions

the check engine light is not on so I have no reason to think the chip has gone bad

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 17, 2021, 08:18:56 PM

Go Amish

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 17, 2021, 08:44:23 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 17, 2021, 08:18:56 PM

Go Amish

oats cost too much

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 18, 2021, 07:33:26 AM

So John Kerry says he and his Chinese counterpart have struck a deal to work on climate change.

Is he aware that China is currently building almost 200 coal plants?

Just more dribble. Nothing will happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 18, 2021, 07:41:58 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 18, 2021, 07:33:26 AM

So John Kerry says he and his Chinese counterpart have struck a deal to work on climate change.

Is he aware that China is currently building almost 200 coal plants?

Just more dribble. Nothing will happen.

He is aware

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 18, 2021, 08:10:15 AM

He should also be aware that nothing is going to happen.

Nothing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 18, 2021, 08:16:46 AM

I just read that article

Longhorn320 should ditch the buick - trade it on an electric

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 18, 2021, 09:18:19 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 18, 2021, 08:10:15 AM

He should also be aware that nothing is going to happen.

Nothing.

You're right.


And you're also never allowed to tell someone they can't be political on here.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 18, 2021, 09:32:24 AM

China and India are absolute, 100% oncoming pollutive super-bubbles.  We can't expect them to fast-forward the same stages we passed through when it comes to such things.  

The funny thing is that I say the same about Islam.  Everyone's scared of it or says it's so violent....it's simply 500 years younger than Christianity.  Just as we can't fast-forward the industrial development of other massive countries, nor can we fast-forward the liberal progress of an oppressive religion.  You guys would have offed me years ago if this was 1520 instead of 2020.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 18, 2021, 09:54:29 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 18, 2021, 09:18:19 AM

You're right.


And you're also never allowed to tell someone they can't be political on here. 

Well he's one of the site stakeholders, so he really can.

But that's neither here nor there-- this thread has long been open for political discussion.

Really the only one that's monitored is the Coronavirus thread, when I take the time to do it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 18, 2021, 10:14:32 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 18, 2021, 08:16:46 AM

I just read that article

Longhorn320 should ditch the buick - trade it on an electric

thanks for the advice

the Buick is paid for

electric would cost gazillions of dollars

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 18, 2021, 11:04:37 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 18, 2021, 09:18:19 AM

You're right.


And you're also never allowed to tell someone they can't be political on here. 

You are confusing my post on policy for a political post.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2021, 11:36:54 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 18, 2021, 09:32:24 AM

China and India are absolute, 100% oncoming pollutive super-bubbles.  We can't expect them to fast-forward the same stages we passed through when it comes to such things. 

The funny thing is that I say the same about Islam.  Everyone's scared of it or says it's so violent....it's simply 500 years younger than Christianity.  Just as we can't fast-forward the industrial development of other massive countries, nor can we fast-forward the liberal progress of an oppressive religion.  You guys would have offed me years ago if this was 1520 instead of 2020. 

You should read about the Islamic Golden Age.  Circa 1000 AD, they were well ahead of Europe by about any metric.  A lot of Jews fled Europe to live in the Ottoman Empire where they were tolerated, and even held up for their science and medical arts.

And we don't expect China and India to magically go carbon neutral.  But then, why should we spend gazillions trying ourselves for a 0.1° possible benefit?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 18, 2021, 11:40:02 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 18, 2021, 07:33:26 AM

So John Kerry says he and his Chinese counterpart have struck a deal to work on climate change.

Is he aware that China is currently building almost 200 coal plants?

Just more dribble. Nothing will happen.

This is just frightful,any sane,normal,rational individual's head will explode listening to these slappie's attempting to play us as saps :sign0065:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on April 18, 2021, 11:40:43 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 17, 2021, 10:39:45 AM

Forget the sissy ass wand, go getcha one of these massage belts by TruMedic. About 100 bucks, give or take. You can adjust the pressure by tugging with your arms. You can really dig down deep if you want to. You can do your legs, or lay down and go up and down your entire back.

You'll thank me later.
(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/bcd386d5-5152-42b0-9a8b-55f13725db30_1.e04388efd56d3fc4ecdf520d46836dd3.jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=ffffff)

And to think Deshaun Watson could've had this instead of his 22 masseuses eventually costing him over $10 million is civil settlements.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 18, 2021, 11:43:00 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 18, 2021, 09:32:24 AM

  You guys would have offed me years ago if this was 1520 instead of 2020. 

Oh it's still on the list :bluegrab:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 18, 2021, 12:01:54 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 17, 2021, 08:44:23 PM

oats cost too much

Just split them with the horse

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 18, 2021, 01:11:16 PM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on April 18, 2021, 11:40:43 AM

And to think Deshaun Watson could've had this instead of his 22 masseuses eventually costing him over $10 million is civil settlements.

Yes, the one flaw in the massage belt is that it doesn't come with a happy ending.

But man, those spinning discs of knobs of varying length just tenderize you all the way down to the bone.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71V2A1BXUzL._AC_SX425_.jpg)

All that other vibrating nonsense is just a total rip off, and does nothing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 18, 2021, 02:53:32 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 18, 2021, 01:11:16 PM

Yes, the one flaw in the massage belt is that it doesn't come with a happy ending.

But man, those spinning discs of knobs of varying length just tenderize you all the way down to the bone.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71V2A1BXUzL._AC_SX425_.jpg)

All that other vibrating nonsense is just a total rip off, and does nothing.

Ah, damn.  I've been wearing it as a VR headset.  No wonder my vision is off.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 18, 2021, 02:57:07 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 18, 2021, 11:36:54 AM

You should read about the Islamic Golden Age.  Circa 1000 AD, they were well ahead of Europe by about any metric.  A lot of Jews fled Europe to live in the Ottoman Empire where they were tolerated, and even held up for their science and medical arts.

And we don't expect China and India to magically go carbon neutral.  But then, why should we spend gazillions trying ourselves for a 0.1° possible benefit?

I think you're getting the region mixed up with the religion.  
The middle east was THE scientific and educational epicenter of the world BEFORE Islam arose.  After that, not so much.  

Where'd you get your 0.1 degree number from?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2021, 03:39:32 PM

The Islamic Golden Age was a "thing", and it happened after Islam came into being.  That is why I cited circa 1000 AD.

The Islamic Golden Age | World Civilization (lumenlearning.com) (https://courses.lumenlearning.com/suny-hccc-worldcivilization/chapter/the-islamic-golden-age/)

• The Islamic Golden Age started with the rise of Islam and establishment of the first Islamic state in 622.
• The introduction of paper in the 10th century enabled Islamic scholars to easily write manuscripts; Arab scholars also saved classic works of antiquity by translating them into various languages.
• The Arabs assimilated the scientific knowledge of the civilizations they had overrun, including the ancient Greek, Roman, Persian, Chinese, Indian, Egyptian, and Phoenician civilizations.
• Scientists advanced the fields of algebra, calculus, geometry, chemistry, biology, medicine, and astronomy.
• Many forms of art flourished during the Islamic Golden Age, including ceramics, metalwork, textiles, illuminated manuscripts, woodwork, and calligraphy.
• This period is traditionally understood to have begun during the reign of the Abbasid caliph Harun al-Rashid (786–809) with the inauguration of the House of Wisdom in Baghdad, where scholars from various parts of the world with different cultural backgrounds were mandated to gather and translate all of the world’s classical knowledge into the Arabic language.
  
  The end of the age is variously given as 1258 with the Mongolian Sack of Baghdad, or 1492 with the completion of the Christian Reconquista of the Emirate of Granada in Al-Andalus, Iberian Peninsula. During the Golden Age, the major Islamic capital cities of Baghdad, Cairo, and Córdoba became the main intellectual centers for science, philosophy, medicine, and education. The government heavily patronized scholars, and the best scholars and notable translators, such as Hunayn ibn Ishaq, had salaries estimated to be the equivalent of those of professional athletes today.
  The School of Nisibis and later the School of Edessa became centers of learning and transmission of classical wisdom. The House of Wisdom was a library, translation institute, and academy, and the Library of Alexandria and the Imperial Library of Constantinople housed new works of literature. Nestorian Christians played an important role in the formation of Arab culture, with the Jundishapur hospital and medical academy prominent in the late Sassanid, Umayyad, and early Abbasid periods. Notably, eight generations of the Nestorian Bukhtishu family served as private doctors to caliphs and sultans between the 8th and 11th centuries.
  
  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 18, 2021, 04:03:49 PM

when will OAM learn when you mess with the bull you get the horns

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 18, 2021, 04:45:03 PM

longhorn, i'm glad to learn something new, this isn't a pissing fight.  piss off

.
So Cincy, then what happened?  When did the fundies take over and forbid learning?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2021, 04:49:07 PM

The Mongols happened, in effect.  Later the Ottoman Empire took hold and had considerable power.  The Jews kicked out of Spain in 1492 often migrated to the Ottoman territories, where they were welcomed as "people of the Book".  Muslims consider Jews and Christians as related, worshipping the same God.  They just think they had a distorted Bible, unlike the Koran.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 18, 2021, 05:03:52 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 18, 2021, 04:45:03 PM

longhorn, i'm glad to learn something new, this isn't a pissing fight.  piss off

.
So Cincy, then what happened?  When did the fundies take over and forbid learning?

must be an every day occurrence 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2021, 05:09:44 PM

The wife and I watched a show about the history of Alexandria. 

The Burning of the Library of Alexandria | eHISTORY (osu.edu) (https://ehistory.osu.edu/articles/burning-library-alexandria)

So who did burn the Library of Alexandria? Unfortunately most of the writers from Plutarch (who apparently blamed Caesar) to Edward Gibbons (a staunch atheist or deist who liked very much to blame Christians and blamed Theophilus) to Bishop Gregory (who was particularly anti-Moslem, blamed Omar) all had an axe to grind and consequently must be seen as biased. Probably everyone mentioned above had some hand in destroying some part of the Library's holdings. The collection may have ebbed and flowed as some documents were destroyed and others were added. For instance, Mark Antony was supposed to have given Cleopatra over 200,000 scrolls for the Library long after Julius Caesar is accused of burning it.

It is also quite likely that even if the Museum was destroyed with the main library the outlying "daughter" library at the Temple of Serapis continued on. Many writers seem to equate the Library of Alexandria with the Library of Serapis although technically they were in two different parts of the city.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 18, 2021, 05:14:31 PM

And Fro teaches children. 

Scary. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2021, 05:42:56 PM

Well, we have no idea what he teaches, and frankly I didn't learn any of this in school.  History was the most boring subject I had in school, and now I find it fascinating, and a revelation into WHY we are how we are today.  It's my favorite thing to read.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 18, 2021, 06:13:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 18, 2021, 05:42:56 PM

Well, we have no idea what he teaches, and frankly I didn't learn any of this in school.  History was the most boring subject I had in school, and now I find it fascinating, and a revelation into WHY we are how we are today.  It's my favorite thing to read.

I also like history

watch the Hitler channel every day

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 18, 2021, 09:47:14 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 18, 2021, 05:03:52 PM

must be an every day occurrence

Only you would consider this an insult....seeking knowledge.  FFS

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 18, 2021, 09:47:46 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 18, 2021, 05:14:31 PM

And Fro teaches children.

Scary.

Yes, it's scary that I encourage them to seek out what they don't know.  I'm a danger to them!  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 18, 2021, 09:48:17 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 18, 2021, 06:13:25 PM

I also like history

watch the Hitler channel every day

How's Mr. Hannity?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 18, 2021, 09:49:42 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 18, 2021, 04:49:07 PM

The Mongols happened, in effect.  Later the Ottoman Empire took hold and had considerable power.  The Jews kicked out of Spain in 1492 often migrated to the Ottoman territories, where they were welcomed as "people of the Book".  Muslims consider Jews and Christians as related, worshipping the same God.  They just think they had a distorted Bible, unlike the Koran.

So I ask the question, and you cite the Mongols, which we're all aware of.  But beyond that, it seems we're not sure.

And it's odd here - Muslims considering Jews and Christians as related, worshipping the same God...........because Mulsims worship the same god as Christians and Jews.
What a bizarre sentiment. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 18, 2021, 11:35:18 PM

so, have a chance to get involved in an ownership stake of one of the best restaurants in the entire country. anybody in here know anything about the restaurant biz? i'm always learning shit from some really smart guys in here- figured why not ask for some insight.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 18, 2021, 11:55:05 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 18, 2021, 11:35:18 PM

so, have a chance to get involved in an ownership stake of one of the best restaurants in the entire country. anybody in here know anything about the restaurant biz? i'm always learning shit from some really smart guys in here- figured why not ask for some insight.

Is this a single establishment or a chain

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on April 19, 2021, 12:53:28 AM

I have zero desire to invest in a restaurant.  You need to be present or better damn well have people w skin in the game that are present all the time.    I can think of dozens of other illiquid investments I'd rather make.   It's just not for me, that type of risk tolerance.   I'm not even interested in making passive investments into them, outside of accepting fractional indirect ownership via a pooled vehicle (mf/etf).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2021, 06:05:53 AM

I had part ownership in an upscale restaurant in Cincy years back, it didn't end well.  I did get some benefits while it lasted though, basically $1500 a year in dining.  And a  tax write off.  It was a nice place when I bought in, various and sundry dragged it down, including the recession.

It was nice while it lasted though.  It's nice a rather mediocre restaurant that does great business.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2021, 06:11:46 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 18, 2021, 09:49:42 PM

So I ask the question, and you cite the Mongols, which we're all aware of.  But beyond that, it seems we're not sure.

And it's odd here - Muslims considering Jews and Christians as related, worshipping the same God...........because Mulsims worship the same god as Christians and Jews.
What a bizarre sentiment. 

Why is that a "bizarre sentiment"?  As for the demise of the Islamic Golden Age, the Mongols clearly played a role.  Beyond that it gets complicated.  I wouldn't say we're not sure, it's just more complicated than some simple one liner.

It was partially restored when the Ottoman's gained power and a large empire.  When the Jews were kicked out of Spain in 1492, many ended up in that empire.  They had no place else to go in effect.  

Meanwhile, Europe was involved in almost constant warfare which had the side effect of developing increasing effective weaponry and tactics.  The English long bow was one such example.  I read a piece somewhere that suggested Wellington would have been better served at Waterloo by men with longbows than muskets.

When the Europeans "discovered" America of course it generated enormous wealth which was a significant factor in their dominance in the 17th and 18th centuries, and the Ottoman Empire started to recede, though it might still be around if they had not gotten involved in WW One by some serious missteps involving a German cruiser.

That is a very odd story, there is a nice book about it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2021, 07:23:55 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 18, 2021, 11:35:18 PM

so, have a chance to get involved in an ownership stake of one of the best restaurants in the entire country. anybody in here know anything about the restaurant biz? i'm always learning shit from some really smart guys in here- figured why not ask for some insight.

I don't think I would do it. Based on friends who do own restaurants, it's way more than a full time gig - and they always watch the store. Otherwise, they would have partners they don't want.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 19, 2021, 08:40:10 AM

I grew up in a family that was in the restaurant business.  I would advise against it.

As others have said, either you, or someone you trust completely with a lot of skin in the game, must be present at all times.  All of your employees will steal from you.  Even trusted managers.  And if there are multiple owners, invariably there are going to be multiple ideas on vision, process, etc.  Almost literally, too many cooks in the kitchen.  It's tough business.

My friends finally stopped bothering telling me I should open a BBQ restaurant when I told them all the stories about the one that we used to own.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 19, 2021, 09:02:10 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 18, 2021, 11:35:18 PM

so, have a chance to get involved in an ownership stake of one of the best restaurants in the entire country. anybody in here know anything about the restaurant biz? i'm always learning shit from some really smart guys in here- figured why not ask for some insight.

Does someone want out for a reason?They a little too eager to get you involved?Best advice I ever got was what would you do/say if some one asked you the same question.Obviously ask someone you really trust in the business.Good chance it might be picking up.When it comes to investments I seem to be Wally Pipp

Just saw 94s comment above,prolly what he said having rode in that rodeo

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 19, 2021, 09:23:51 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on April 16, 2021, 04:53:31 PM

I read 30 Seconds Over Tokyo in about the sixth grade.  On  a tactical level,, Doolittle's raid was a ridiculous failure. All the planes and many of their crews were lost for only negligible damage inflicted.

On a strategic level it was successful beyond anyone's wildest dreams. Those guys had serious guts!

That's the first book I ever read. I was enamored by the bravery of these men. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 19, 2021, 09:28:05 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/eH7FaDQ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2021, 09:33:37 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 19, 2021, 08:40:10 AM

I grew up in a family that was in the restaurant business.  I would advise against it.

As others have said, either you, or someone you trust completely with a lot of skin in the game, must be present at all times.  All of your employees will steal from you.  Even trusted managers.  And if there are multiple owners, invariably there are going to be multiple ideas on vision, process, etc.  Almost literally, too many cooks in the kitchen.  It's tough business.

My friends finally stopped bothering telling me I should open a BBQ restaurant when I told them all the stories about the one that we used to own.

This, exactly.

And they don't necessarily steal. But, let's say the bartender over pours drinks, seeking out better tips. Well, now you have an unwanted partner.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 19, 2021, 09:41:40 AM

When any exciting opportunity comes my way, my first thought is WHY is this opportunity available?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 19, 2021, 10:05:36 AM

Church Ladies with Typewriters

They're Back! Those cheery Church Bulletins! Thank God for church ladies with typewriters. These sentences actually appeared in church bulletins or were announced at church services.
---------- 
The Fasting & Prayer Conference includes meals.
----------
 Scouts are saving aluminum cans, bottles and other items to be recycled. Proceeds will be used to cripple children.
----------
The sermon this morning: Jesus Walks on the Water.  The sermon tonight: Searching for Jesus.
----------
 Ladies, don't forget the rummage sale. It's a chance to get rid of those things not worth keeping around the house. Bring your husbands.
----------
 Don't let worry kill you off—let the Church help.
----------
 Miss Charlene Mason sang I will not pass this way again, giving obvious pleasure to the congregation.
----------
 For those of you who have children and don't know it, we have a nursery downstairs.
----------
 Next Thursday there will be try-outs for the choir. They need all the help they can get.
----------
 Irving Benson and Jessie Carter were married on October 24 in the church. So ends a friendship that began in their school days.
----------
 At the evening service tonight, the sermon topic will be: What Is Hell? Come early and listen to our choir practice.
----------
 Eight new choir robes are currently needed due to the addition of several new members and to the deterioration of some older ones.
----------
 Please place your donation in the envelope along with the deceased person you want remembered..
----------
The church will host an evening of fine dining, super entertainment and gracious hostility.
----------
 Pot-luck supper Sunday at 5:00 PM - prayer and medication to follow.
----------
 The ladies of the Church have cast off clothing of every kind. They may be seen in the basement on Friday afternoon.
----------
 This evening at 7 PM there will be a hymn singing in the park across from the Church. Bring a blanket and come prepared to sin.
----------
The pastor would appreciate it if the ladies of the Congregation would lend him their electric girdles for the pancake breakfast next Sunday.
----------
 Low Self Esteem Support Group will meet Thursday at 7 PM. Please use the back door.
----------
 The eighth-graders will be presenting Shakespeare's Hamlet in the Church basement Friday at 7 PM .. The congregation is invited to attend this tragedy.
----------
 Weight Watchers will meet at 7 PM at the First Presbyterian Church. Please use large double door at the side entrance.
----------
And this one just about sums them all up:
 
The Associate Minister unveiled the church's new campaign slogan last Sunday: “I Upped My Pledge - Up Yours.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 19, 2021, 10:57:54 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 19, 2021, 09:41:40 AM

When any exciting opportunity comes my way, my first thought is WHY is this opportunity available? 

This is a very good reality check 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 19, 2021, 11:12:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 19, 2021, 06:11:46 AM

That is a very odd story, there is a nice book about it.

Guns of August has a great chapter about it. One of the very few diplomatic successes of Germany in the 20th Century and it came (mostly) against Britain which makes it all the more impressive because Britain's diplomatic success is astounding. 

Short version for those who do not know:
Prior to WWI the Ottomans had purchased a warship or some warships (I don't remember all the details) from British shipbuilders. 

When the war began the British were uncharacteristically undiplomatic in informing the Ottomans that their ships (which had been paid for) would not be delivered because the British had confiscated them due to their war with Germany. This REALLY ticked off the Ottomans. 

Meanwhile, the Germans had several warships in the Mediterranean which were effectively worthless to them since they were trapped there due to British control of the two exits (Suez and Gibraltar). Instead of giving them to the Austro-Hungarian Navy* they effectively gave them to the Ottomans. This made up for the Ottoman loss of the British ships and created a strong pro-german feeling in the Ottoman Empire. The Ottomans joined Germany in WWI in part because of this.

*Giving the ships to the Austro-Hungarian Navy would have likely been worthless as that Navy spent most of the war bottled up in Trieste at the Northern end of the Adriatic. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 19, 2021, 11:26:05 AM

On this technology question, one surprising contributor to the European technological surge was the Plague.

That may be counter-intuitive but hear me out:

The Black Death killed around one third of Europe's population. That is obviously horrific and devastating but a major unappreciated side effect was that the remaining people were each, on average, 33% wealthier than each pre-plague person had been. 

Consider a modern example: There are three of us and between us we own two cars. Thus each person owns an average of 0.67 cars. Now one person dies so two of us each own an average of 1 car. The two survivors are wealthier than the three were before the death.

The assets then were generally more agriculture related (plows, farmland, draft animals, barns,etc) but the same ratios apply. 

Additionally, the remaining population had 1/3 less mouths to feed. Furthermore, if you need 1/3 less food you can probably reduce the tilled land by 1/2 because you are, of course, going to take the least productive land out of tillage first.

Effectively this left the remaining 2/3 of the population vastly better off than they had been just a few years before. Some of their newfound freetime was used to think about ways to build better mousetrap and thus technology saw a significant surge.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 19, 2021, 11:32:23 AM

Another unexpected example of an unlikely cause is that Britain's lack of wood was a major contributing factor to the industrial revolution for several reasons:

People had known for centuries that it was possible to mine coal and use it to burn for heat but as long as trees were plentiful it wasn't worth the effort so not much coal mining was done. As Britain began to run low on trees due to cutting them down for building materials, shipbuilding, and fuel the price of wood increased and coal mining became a viable industry. 

Ironworks discovered that because coal burns much hotter than wood, they could use it to produce steel more consistently than they could with wood.

Coal miners needed a way to pump water out of their mines and the first steam engines were used for exactly this purpose. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 19, 2021, 11:43:14 AM

Historical what-ifs:
The ancient Egyptians had what was in effect a mini steam engine. They put a pot over a fire with the lid designed to vent such that the venting steam caused the lid to rotate. They used this as nothing more than a palace toy to entertain guests but it embodies the basic premise of a steam engine. If they had stuck a pulley on the lid, the industrial revolution would have started in Egypt 4,000-6,000 years ago instead of in Britain >500 years ago.

Note that Ancient Egypt is so long ago that the Romans are closer in time to us than they were to the Ancient Egyptians. Think about that, when the Roman Legions got to Egypt and discovered the Pyramids, the Pyramids were older than the Roman ruins are now.

Speaking of the Romans, they were also right on the precipice of the Industrial revolution. They had central heating using boilers and steam to transmit heat throughout buildings. If you understand that, you aren't far from a steam engine, just use the expansion to drive a piston or turbine instead of to transmit heat and bingo, Industrial revolution.

I once read that a middle class citizen of Roman Britain had central heat and once the Roman Empire collapsed nobody in Britain not even the King and Queen had central heat for more than a thousand years.

Imagine where humans would be today if the Industrial Revolution had occurred 2,000 or 4,000 years ago!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on April 19, 2021, 12:48:48 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 19, 2021, 09:41:40 AM

When any exciting opportunity comes my way, my first thought is WHY is this opportunity available? 

Speaking of opportunities, I just spent hundreds of dollars on tickets to this upcoming season's CyHawk game to justify crashing my best college buddy's family reunion in Ames during that weekend.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 19, 2021, 01:19:52 PM

You're assuming you'll be welcome

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 19, 2021, 04:00:32 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on April 19, 2021, 11:43:14 AM

Imagine where humans would be today if the Industrial Revolution had occurred 2,000 or 4,000 years ago!

All of the futuristic movies made would be utopias with gregarious main characters and homely-looking female sidekicks?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 19, 2021, 04:10:20 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on April 19, 2021, 11:43:14 AM

Imagine where humans would be today if the Industrial Revolution had occurred 2,000 or 4,000 years ago!

Probably would have extinguished ourselves within the first 400 years of either. 

Right now we're anywhere between 180 and 260 years out from our industrial revolution depending on how you count, and I'm not convinced we're going to make it to 400. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 19, 2021, 07:46:48 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 19, 2021, 04:10:20 PM

and I'm not convinced we're going to make it to 400.

Got news 80 and I'm out,you wanna hang around like Noah and scream at clouds knock yourself out

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 19, 2021, 09:09:18 PM

That's an interesting question:  if/when life expectancy goes up to say, 200 years......would you want to live that long?  Assuming it's prorated out so that you feel 40 when you're 100, etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 19, 2021, 09:30:26 PM

When your body gives out and quality of life goes away, it's time to go

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 19, 2021, 09:42:44 PM

Break on thru to the other side

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 19, 2021, 10:13:13 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 19, 2021, 09:42:44 PM

Break on thru to the other side

Im determined to stay around long enough to get all my social security and medicare withholding back with interest

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 19, 2021, 10:28:42 PM

I hear you...

My goal right now is to cash one SS check

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 19, 2021, 11:22:30 PM

BTW I do think one outcome is radical life extension...

...I think another is humanity extinguishing itself in a cataclysm of epic proportions.

We'll see. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 20, 2021, 12:46:56 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 19, 2021, 11:22:30 PM

BTW I do think one outcome is radical life extension...

...I think another is humanity extinguishing itself in a cataclysm of epic proportions.

We'll see.

no actually we wont see 

we'll be long gone

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 20, 2021, 06:58:39 AM

Humanity will,hopefully we won't unless you believe in reincarnation so perhaps maybe

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 20, 2021, 08:34:43 AM

Was going to put this on the covid thread, but decided it's better here.

This lady is an ass.

Gretchen Whitmer Traveled to Florida After Blaming That State for Michigan’s Spike in Covid Cases by Brad Slager (townhall.com) (https://townhall.com/columnists/bradslager/2021/04/20/gretchen-whitmer-traveled-to-florida-after-blaming-that-state-for-michigans-spike-in-covid-cases-n2588204)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 20, 2021, 08:36:19 AM

you use the term lady, loosely 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 20, 2021, 08:57:35 AM

just another example of someone reaching their level of incompetence 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 20, 2021, 10:19:02 AM

the Peter Principle 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 20, 2021, 10:23:41 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 20, 2021, 08:34:43 AM

Was going to put this on the covid thread, but decided it's better here.

This lady is an ass.

Gretchen Whitmer Traveled to Florida After Blaming That State for Michigan’s Spike in Covid Cases by Brad Slager (townhall.com) (https://townhall.com/columnists/bradslager/2021/04/20/gretchen-whitmer-traveled-to-florida-after-blaming-that-state-for-michigans-spike-in-covid-cases-n2588204)

she's a dumb c-word and Michigan sucks ass and Florida is best place in US to live right now- hence why 1,000's of people are moving there on the daily whilst people are leaving that sinking shithole state Michigan by the droves daily.

Michigan is a complete shithole- all of it's inner-cities are complete dumpster fire crime ridden drug ridden shitholes- but hey- that's what happens when you get a certain party running everything.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2021, 10:34:24 AM

Status update, atrial flutter, in hospital fo r slew of tests, may have catheter ablation procedure tomorrow.

Heart is misfiring, resting comfortably.  Have all sorts of gizmos stuck to me.  Ciao.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 20, 2021, 10:40:24 AM

Good luck Cincy!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 20, 2021, 10:42:03 AM

Best wishes CD.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 20, 2021, 10:49:41 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 20, 2021, 10:34:24 AM

Status update, atrial flutter, in hospital fo r slew of tests, may have catheter ablation procedure tomorrow.

Heart is misfiring, resting comfortably.  Have all sorts of gizmos stuck to me.  Ciao.

Good luck!

In other news, catheter ablation follows the razor business model... You know, sell the initial razor basically at cost or even at a loss and make it up in consumable / replaceable heads? 

The ablation vendors sell their machine basically at cost, but each time the machine is used on a patient it requires a brand new catheter and ablation lead. And they can sell those consumables for thousands of dollars a pop. 

A decade or so ago, I was supporting a customer in that business using our storage device in their machine. At the time, ablation was already commonplace in Europe but was still just going through FDA approval here in the USA. 

Cool tech. Very safe and minimally invasive for anything involving the heart, as well. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 20, 2021, 10:54:24 AM

best wishes!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 20, 2021, 10:54:42 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 20, 2021, 10:34:24 AM

Status update, atrial flutter, in hospital fo r slew of tests, may have catheter ablation procedure tomorrow.

Heart is misfiring, resting comfortably.  Have all sorts of gizmos stuck to me.  Ciao.

Oh my, good luck to you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 20, 2021, 11:28:08 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 20, 2021, 10:34:24 AM

Status update, atrial flutter, in hospital fo r slew of tests, may have catheter ablation procedure tomorrow.

Heart is misfiring, resting comfortably.  Have all sorts of gizmos stuck to me.  Ciao.

Take care. Flirt with the nurses.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2021, 11:47:44 AM

I get to go home, surgery in four weeks, heart scan was good, just the electrical issue, so I should be fine.  Folks here are very nice, Piedmont  Hospital.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 20, 2021, 11:56:10 AM

good news

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 20, 2021, 12:12:44 PM

Good luck CD,stay off of social media when you get home.Prolly no good for your BP 😎

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 20, 2021, 12:34:42 PM

Great to hear. Stay well. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 20, 2021, 12:37:44 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 19, 2021, 11:22:30 PM

BTW I do think one outcome is radical life extension..

From what I have seen the technology for this is still way off.

To consider:
Two and a half centuries ago the life expectancy at birth was around 35 years.

A lot of people misunderstand that to mean that many people died of old age at ~35-40 around the time of the Revolution. That is absolutely not true. Many of the founders of this nation, for example, lived to more than twice that age:

• George Washington lived to 67
• Thomas Jefferson and John Adams famously both died on the 50th anniversary of signing the Declaration of Independence on July 4, 1826 when they were 83 and 90 respectively.
• Benjamin Franklin was 70 at the time of the Revolution and that did not prevent him from sailing to Europe as America's first ambassador. He lived to 84.

Life expectancy was ~35 and yet I just gave three examples of people who lived to more than double that and a fourth who lived to nearly double that.

Today life expectancy is nearly 80 but there aren't any 160 year olds. Per wiki there are five currently living people over 115 (one in Japan and two each in France and Brazil) and only the world's 50 oldest individuals are over 111 year and 331 days. Only one person is believed to have lived past 120 which is only about 50% beyond the life expectancy in most of the developed world.

The reason for this is that modern medicine has accomplished miracles in reducing deaths from diseases that ravaged our ancestors but has accomplished very little against old age. A three-great grandfather of mine died of Scarlett Fever in his 40's. His father, son, grandson, and granddaughter (my grandmother) all lived well past 80. With modern medicine he would probably have lived past 80 as well, but he wouldn't have lived to 140 because old age hasn't moved much, if at all.

People from two and a half centuries ago who were lucky enough to avoid dying of diseases like Scarlett Fever generally "wore out" and died of old age in their 80's or so. Scarlett Fever and a multitude of diseases that used to be terrifying mortal threats are now basically non events but people still "wear out" and die of old age at about the same age as our 10-great grandparents. I'll start believing that this might be able to be radically extended only after I see it pushed upwards in a discernible and meaningful amount.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 20, 2021, 12:49:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 20, 2021, 11:47:44 AM

I get to go home, surgery in four weeks, heart scan was good, just the electrical issue, so I should be fine.  Folks here are very nice, Piedmont  Hospital.

Good news!


Good luck!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 20, 2021, 12:57:08 PM

I think what would really extend life wouldn't be much of a life lived......perfect nutrition and air quality at all times, with the right amount of humidity, plus living much of it in an aquatic or space environment to extend the life of joints, etc.   


We can't really experiment too much with it, either, and that's the damning thing.  No one wants to be a lifelong guinea pig, and no one has the right to volunteer someone to be, from birth.  We may very well be able to make as much progress on life extension as anything else, but we lack any and all experimentation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 20, 2021, 01:03:01 PM

Hell, imagine being born on a ship bound for Mars or something like that.  No one asks for that.  Here, honey, we decided that you'd be born off of that blue, inhabitable planet.  We love you!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 20, 2021, 01:03:48 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 20, 2021, 11:47:44 AM

I get to go home, surgery in four weeks, heart scan was good, just the electrical issue, so I should be fine.  Folks here are very nice, Piedmont  Hospital.

This is excellent and makes me happy. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 20, 2021, 01:26:47 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on April 20, 2021, 12:37:44 PM

From what I have seen the technology for this is still way off.

<snip>

Scarlett Fever and a multitude of diseases that used to be terrifying mortal threats are now basically non events but people still "wear out" and die of old age at about the same age as our 10-great grandparents. I'll start believing that this might be able to be radically extended only after I see it pushed upwards in a discernible and meaningful amount.

The technology is clearly not ready, but the real question is how far off is it? 

The truth of technology is that the rate of increase in technology tends to accelerate.

200 years ago we were just starting to figure out the steam engine. All travel was pretty much horse-drawn carriages, steam locomotives, or steamships. It took another 100 years to move it forward to the internal combustion engine. We advanced that into air travel by mid-century, and put a man on the moon only 25 years after mainstream rocketry was really pioneered in WWII. In the ensuing half-century, we've made air travel safer [and all travel] safer and more economical.

We were only learning the fundamental laws of electricity in the mid-1800s. We figured out the telegraph in the mid-1800s. Electrical generation and transmission and artificial electric light barely existed and were certainly not mainstream before 1900. Only after this did we actually figure out radio. The first CRT televisions were the mid-1920s. The transistor wasn't commercially viable until after WWII. The computer driving the Apollo missions was less capable than a modern calculator. Yet know we all carry computers around in our pockets every day, have a worldwide instantaneous communication network, can Zoom with our long-lost relatives and business colleagues anywhere in the world. We're pioneering in new fields like machine learning and AI which may accelerate learning new things through analysis methods that are not necessarily human-intuitive aided by processing power. 

100 years ago, we faced one of the larger pandemics the world had seen since the bubonic plague. At the time we did not even know that viruses existed. Penicillin wasn't even discovered until almost a decade later. Around that time we were starting to understand that DNA existed, but it wasn't until 1953 that the actual structure of DNA was discovered. We barely started to scratch the surface of genomic sequencing in the late 1970s, and it was only 20 years ago that we actually figured out the sequence of the human genome. Yet last year we sequenced a virus, developed a vaccine using mRNA which taught our bodies to produce a specific protein generated by that virus, and learn to build immunity to it. That doesn't even take into account all the medical advances over the last 100 years. 

But what we've seen over the last 100 years is that we now have advanced technology for communication and processing, and we've ALREADY been using that to accelerate our learning and development of medical advances to where we've advanced medicine more in the last 20 years then probably in the 40 years before that, and more in the last 100 years than in all of human history combined. And on all fronts, it appears to be accelerating, not stalling. 

There is ongoing research in the mechanisms of aging. We have some good understanding of HOW we age. We haven't really figured out very much how to slow or stop that process. It might be impossible. I don't know. But if it's possible, we're at a better time in history than ever to figure it out.

Will it happen in my lifetime? Well, one of the ideas being floated is that every advance that gets us partially there helps people live longer for the next advances to get us the next extension to be developed, such that at some point simply getting to step 1 may allow you to live long enough to see the problem solved. The question is whether step 1 is figured out before I'm too old and decrepit to make use of it, or after I've already passed.

Either way, it's exciting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 20, 2021, 05:00:21 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 20, 2021, 01:26:47 PM

The technology is clearly not ready, but the real question is how far off is it?

Agreed.

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 20, 2021, 01:26:47 PM

The truth of technology is that the rate of increase in technology tends to accelerate.

It did, but I do not see this as an unbreakable law and I believe that the rate is slowing and will continue to decline.

As an example, consider air/space travel which you brought up. My grandfather was born in 1900 and died in 1984. When he was born no human had ever lifted off of earth's surface in a heavier-than-air craft:

• When he was three the Wright Brothers flew.
• When he was 14-18 aircraft advanced incredibly during WWI from early war observation planes that looked a lot like the Wright Flyer to late war bombers and fighters some of which were modern looking metal-skinned monoplanes.
• When he was 39-45 aircraft advanced incredibly again during WWII.
• Also during WWII the Germans deployed a guided rocket that was super-sonic and reached a low orbit.
• When he was 69 he watched on his television as Purdue grad Neil Armstrong became the first man to walk on the moon.
• When he was 72 Purdue grad Eugene Cernan became the last man to walk on the moon.

In between Armstrong and Cernan an additional 10 American men walked on the moon. That feat has not been accomplished in my lifetime and today NASA is so inept that US Astronauts can't even get to the Space Station without hitching a ride with the Russians. Note that the Space Station is only about 250 miles from earth while the moon is almost 240 THOUSAND miles from earth.

Only four men who walked on the moon are still living. They are 91, 88, 85, and 85 years old. Another seven men who flew into Lunar orbit but did not land are still living. They are all 85+.

With the exception of those 11 men and the 13 Appolo Astronauts who have already died, no human has ever been farther away from Earth than a low earth orbit.

In my lifetime no human has ever gone beyond low earth orbit.


Technology is slowing down and will continue to slow down because today we have alternative priorities and are ruled by corrupt morons. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 20, 2021, 05:03:38 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on April 20, 2021, 05:00:21 PM

Technology is slowing down and will continue to slow down 

All the other stuff was cool, but this is literally and demonstrably false.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 20, 2021, 05:17:00 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 20, 2021, 01:26:47 PM

There is ongoing research in the mechanisms of aging. We have some good understanding of HOW we age. We haven't really figured out very much how to slow or stop that process. It might be impossible. I don't know. But if it's possible, we're at a better time in history than ever to figure it out.

Will it happen in my lifetime? Well, one of the ideas being floated is that every advance that gets us partially there helps people live longer for the next advances to get us the next extension to be developed, such that at some point simply getting to step 1 may allow you to live long enough to see the problem solved. The question is whether step 1 is figured out before I'm too old and decrepit to make use of it, or after I've already passed.

Either way, it's exciting.

My guess is that even if a method to delay or stop aging is found it will be far to late for you and I. I'm in my mid 40's so even if a miracle drug to completely stop the aging process is readily available in 30 years, that would only permit me to maintain my mid 70's age. Additionally, there is the mechanical wear-and-tear issue. Stopping genetic aging wouldn't stop rotator cuffs, hips, knees, and other joints from wearing out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 20, 2021, 05:19:11 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on April 20, 2021, 05:00:21 PM

It did, but I do not see this as an unbreakable law and I believe that the rate is slowing and will continue to decline.

Technology is slowing down and will continue to slow down because today we have alternative priorities and are ruled by corrupt morons.

Disagree entirely on technology slowing down.

Humans only went to the moon because of the space race--the forces of capitalist US and communist Russia were vying to prove to the world that they were supreme. 

So we spent a shitload of money on something that had no intrinsic economic value... A tourist trip. Vacation, as it were, to the moon. 

Note that sending things [satellites] into space is of big commercial value. It's of enough value that it's a for-profit business. 

Sending people into space? Not so much. Maybe eventually. 

Radical life extension is a much different prospect. How much would you pay to halt/reverse aging? How much would you pay to be in the prime of health perpetually? To not wake up with random things hurting because you're on the wrong side of 40? To feel as young and strong and wonderful as you did ever day at the age of say 25-30, to have that metabolism, to have that vigor? 

There's a huge economic opportunity available to anyone who figures this out.

Think of how much Americans pay every year for boner pills. You don't think they'll pay TONS more for pills that restore them to their 25-year-old selves when they could f&$k all night? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 20, 2021, 05:20:57 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on April 20, 2021, 05:17:00 PM

My guess is that even if a method to delay or stop aging is found it will be far to late for you and I. I'm in my mid 40's so even if a miracle drug to completely stop the aging process is readily available in 30 years, that would only permit me to maintain my mid 70's age. Additionally, there is the mechanical wear-and-tear issue. Stopping genetic aging wouldn't stop rotator cuffs, hips, knees, and other joints from wearing out.

I've made that joke before. They'll figure out how to halt aging when I'm 85. 

And then I'll end up stuck as the 85-year-old body in a world full of people who are perpetually 25. 

That, my friend, would be terribly depressing. :'(

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 20, 2021, 05:28:30 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 20, 2021, 05:20:57 PM

I've made that joke before. They'll figure out how to halt aging when I'm 85.

And then I'll end up stuck as the 85-year-old body in a world full of people who are perpetually 25.

That, my friend, would be terribly depressing. :'(

If they can figure out how to slow or halt aging, then it's not completely unrealistic to think they could figure out how to reverse it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 20, 2021, 05:28:48 PM

joints can be replaced

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 20, 2021, 05:30:11 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 20, 2021, 05:28:30 PM

If they can figure out how to slow or halt aging, then it's not completely unrealistic to think they could figure out how to reverse it.

Sure, so I have to be 85 for 50 years before I can go back to 25? 

"Just wait a little longer, gramps, we'll perfect that technology soon!"
"Every day hurts, son."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 20, 2021, 05:54:04 PM

Ray of sunshine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 20, 2021, 06:00:10 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 20, 2021, 05:28:30 PM

If they can figure out how to slow or halt aging, then it's not completely unrealistic to think they could figure out how to reverse it.

They can,absolutely NO slow roasted/smoked meats

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 20, 2021, 06:57:18 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 20, 2021, 05:20:57 PM

I've made that joke before. They'll figure out how to halt aging when I'm 85.

And then I'll end up stuck as the 85-year-old body in a world full of people who are perpetually 25.

That, my friend, would be terribly depressing. :'(

I was actually thinking the same thing when I typed that. I'd be lucky enough to make it to 85 only to be one of the only old people in a world full of a growing and growing number of young people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 20, 2021, 08:32:15 PM

young folks have problems too

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 21, 2021, 07:02:23 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 20, 2021, 05:20:57 PM

And then I'll end up stuck as the 85-year-old body in a world full of people who are perpetually 25.

What was it Alice Cooper sang "I've got a baby's brain and an old man's heart

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 21, 2021, 07:07:04 AM

Not sure I want to wake up in 20-30 yrs every morning feeling like Keith Richards/Keith Moon - which I prolly deserve

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 21, 2021, 09:25:47 AM

A brit that lived in Cincinnati, taking Cincinnati chili home and turning it into British fusion cuisine.  What could possibly go wrong?

https://chilibomb.co.uk/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 21, 2021, 10:15:21 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 18, 2021, 11:55:05 PM

Is this a single establishment or a chain

it's a single establishment. looking to expand into a better area.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 21, 2021, 10:16:08 AM

Quote from: MarqHusker on April 19, 2021, 12:53:28 AM

I have zero desire to invest in a restaurant.  You need to be present or better damn well have people w skin in the game that are present all the time.    I can think of dozens of other illiquid investments I'd rather make.  It's just not for me, that type of risk tolerance.  I'm not even interested in making passive investments into them, outside of accepting fractional indirect ownership via a pooled vehicle (mf/etf).

This is where I am at. I would only put up money and get involved and do it if I could get someone I seriously trust would also put in money and be there 24/7 and run it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 21, 2021, 10:16:53 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 19, 2021, 06:05:53 AM

I had part ownership in an upscale restaurant in Cincy years back, it didn't end well.  I did get some benefits while it lasted though, basically $1500 a year in dining.  And a  tax write off.  It was a nice place when I bought in, various and sundry dragged it down, including the recession.

It was nice while it lasted though.  It's nice a rather mediocre restaurant that does great business.

Nothing mediocre about this place at all. In fact, it's honestly one of the best places I've ever eaten at.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 10:17:25 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 20, 2021, 05:28:30 PM

If they can figure out how to slow or halt aging, then it's not completely unrealistic to think they could figure out how to reverse it.

This makes me think of the problem of time travel.  Ehhh, stopping something is one thing, putting it in reverse is a whole other task.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 10:17:53 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 21, 2021, 10:15:21 AM

it's a single establishment. looking to expand into a better area.

So a state with a republican governor then?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 21, 2021, 10:18:05 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2021, 07:23:55 AM

I don't think I would do it. Based on friends who do own restaurants, it's way more than a full time gig - and they always watch the store. Otherwise, they would have partners they don't want.

This is the hang-up for me as well. I don't have the time to live there. And most restaurants that are any good- have someone there running it 24/7 and kicking ass and taking names and watching everything and everyone. Minute you let up, quality starts going down and employees start taking advantage.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 10:18:46 AM

Hasn't this pandemic proven that restaurants aren't a great idea to pump money into?  Thin margins and more at the whim of the economics of the masses than most other enterprises?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 21, 2021, 10:21:40 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 19, 2021, 08:40:10 AM

I grew up in a family that was in the restaurant business.  I would advise against it.

As others have said, either you, or someone you trust completely with a lot of skin in the game, must be present at all times.  All of your employees will steal from you.  Even trusted managers.  And if there are multiple owners, invariably there are going to be multiple ideas on vision, process, etc.  Almost literally, too many cooks in the kitchen.  It's tough business.

My friends finally stopped bothering telling me I should open a BBQ restaurant when I told them all the stories about the one that we used to own.

Appreciate the insight. One thing I am definitely not dumb enough to do is tell someone that has an incredible product to change the vision/process, etc.. or try to be another "cook in the kitchen". 

This place has the best food there is. The location sucks though if you ask me. South Beach is a complete dumpster fire, with nothing but trash and tourists. South of Fifth is super nice, Brickell is super nice, Coral Gables is super nice, Bal Harbour is super nice, North Miami Beach is nice, Wynwood has become super nice- those are the areas/neighborhoods you want to be at in Miami- South Beach is just a complete trash can with overpriced rent and a bunch of scum. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 21, 2021, 10:25:36 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 19, 2021, 09:41:40 AM

When any exciting opportunity comes my way, my first thought is WHY is this opportunity available? 

Hate to pat myself on the back, but the dude not listening to me after I practically begged him not to buy a failing restaurant business right down the street and sign a triple net lease that was $22k/mo + cam (roughly another $2k) to open a 2nd location right next door to his already existing location + COVID f***kd him. He lost his ass, but now he's sold that 2nd location/equipment/business and is looking to do something out of South Beach- like I told him he needed to do from the jump. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 21, 2021, 10:29:13 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 10:18:46 AM

Hasn't this pandemic proven that restaurants aren't a great idea to pump money into?  Thin margins and more at the whim of the economics of the masses than most other enterprises? 

I agree that they aren't a great idea to pump money into if you're in dying states with mass migration of people leaving and gtfo, shrinking economies, and heavy restrictions due to shitty government. IE- Michigan.

Places that are growing like Arizona/FL with good state gov't- good places to invest in restaurants. And the margins don't always have to be thin. If you have a truly GREAT product- you can mark it up like crazy and make high margins. Google this guy: Cafe Martorano's - Fort Lauderdale. He is making STUPID money. His markups on some dishes have to be damn near 1,000% - which means his margins have to be crazy high.

Right now might be the time to get in- as over 100,000+ restaurants have closed their doors permanently.

https://www.loopnet.com/learn/is-now-the-best-time-to-open-a-restaurant/500188177/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 21, 2021, 10:34:40 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 10:18:46 AM

Hasn't this pandemic proven that restaurants aren't a great idea to pump money into?  Thin margins and more at the whim of the economics of the masses than most other enterprises? 

It's not just the pandemic.  Anyone that's run a restaurant-- ever, under any circumstances-- would tell you the same.

Even during the best of times, restaurants are super-risky as an investment.  It has to be a labor of love to own one, because you're going to have to operate it as well, unless you want to lose your a$$.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2021, 10:54:04 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 10:17:25 AM

This makes me think of the problem of time travel.  Ehhh, stopping something is one thing, putting it in reverse is a whole other task.

Yeah, but much different processes. Enough so that it's not even close to a valid analogy.

It's like saying we can't live forever, because due to entropy we'll never overcome the inevitable heat death of the universe. It's a true statement, but we're looking at the order of hundreds to thousands of years, whereas that's a problem that's billions or trillions of years away. 

The body is consistently regenerating. Some cells [like skin] are replacing themselves on the order of days, while others [like skeletal muscle] is on the order of years. There are a few areas [such as in the brain, I believe] that are not replacing themselves at all--which will be another problem that we'll have to face.

A lot of the "reversal of aging" questions are based on the regeneration process. Every time a cell divides and grows, there are two problems. Actually, there are more than two, but these are two that I know of that are of particular concern to the radical life extension folks:

• Mutation. Every cell division carries with it the potential for mutation. Some mutations are benign. Some harm the cell itself and thus either cause the cell to die or cause sub-optimal cells to continue to divide, so there's a degeneration in the quality of the cell relative to its original genetic design. Others cause the cell to go into hyper-growth mode, and we call that cancer... 
• Telomeres. These are effectively the "caps" on our chromosomes and apparently protect the chromosomes themselves. As cells divide to regenerate, apparently these telomeres shorten. The more divisions; the shorter they get. When they get too short, they can no longer effectively protect the chromosomes and cells become unable to divide, and you get an overall degenerative process because the cells can't replace themselves.

One of the very interesting areas of anti-aging research is specifically the telomeres. There are some who believe that if we can find a way to either stop the decay of telomeres or to find a way to replace/regenerate the telomeres as we go, that the body will be able to avoid some of the natural degeneration that occurs with aging. 

And that's what it's about. It's not about "reversing" aging per se. Our body's cells know how to regenerate. If you can fix that process--perhaps by finding a method to teach our body to produce and repair the telomeres--our body will start generating the healthy cells it should be producing, and the body itself will reverse the aging process. At that point you need to find a way to teach our body to cull the mutated cells as well, of course, and that's something for which we have a lot of research into mRNA right now to identify cancerous cells and teach the body to see them as foreign and have the immune system fighting cancer instead of ignoring it. Over the span of time, you'll see that the degenerate cells are replaced by healthy cells, and eventually the body will be almost entirely healthy cells, and hopefully cells of the original genetic code rather than mutated.

These are, of course, hard problems. But as we learn more and more about aging, we are able to define what the problems are, which is the first step to trying to figure out how to solve them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 11:39:50 AM

@Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) 
I'm no expert about the restaurant business, but I do know that if you have one ultra-successful place in mind to mimic and not accept that you'll probably have a joint more like the other 99.9%, you've deceived yourself and you'll fail. 

I'd much rather be knowledgeable and want to know the ins and outs of the 50th percentile restaurant over the 99th before I make any decision.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 11:42:48 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2021, 10:54:04 AM

Yeah, but much different processes. Enough so that it's not even close to a valid analogy.

Except that both are absurd fantasies.  :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2021, 12:06:08 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 11:42:48 AM

Except that both are absurd fantasies.  :)

That's possibly true. 

Kinda like every [rare] time I buy a lotto ticket... I'm a millionaire until the numbers are drawn. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2021, 12:26:34 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 10:18:46 AM

Hasn't this pandemic proven that restaurants aren't a great idea to pump money into?  Thin margins and more at the whim of the economics of the masses than most other enterprises? 

I think it has demonstrated why chains are a better idea than a one off place.  Chains are doing pretty well since last year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 21, 2021, 12:46:12 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2021, 12:06:08 PM

That's possibly true.

Kinda like every [rare] time I buy a lotto ticket... I'm a millionaire until the numbers are drawn.

The lottery is a tax on people who are bad at math.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 12:52:16 PM

Yup.
One teacher at my school sends out numerous, obnoxious emails about gathering money together to buy powerball tickets.  Most people put $5 in, including the principal.

I abstain.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2021, 12:57:16 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on April 21, 2021, 12:46:12 PM

The lottery is a tax on people who are bad at math.

Yep. I do it maybe 3 times a year as an absurd fantasy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 12:58:39 PM

My extended family started giving scratch-offs as a stocking stuffer for Christmas like 10 years back.  Made me feel icky, but I don't know why.  There's nothing wrong with that at all.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2021, 01:01:22 PM

there's nothing wrong with gambling if you understand the odds and realize the more you gamble the more you will lose

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 01:12:13 PM

Exhibit B on school lunches:  today's main entree is a big pretzel + cheese sauce.  

If that's not a shortcut on a technicality, I don't know what is.  Ohhh, they're "whole grain" pretzels.  That makes it better.

Might as well save money on cafeteria staff and let the kids eat from vending machines.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2021, 01:16:55 PM

There's a thought, using some sort of reasonably advanced vending machines, stocked with at least decent sandwiches.  How hard is it to provide a sandwich?

It sounds as if your school meals are far worse than what our HS served routinely.

Our HS also provided breakfasts which were pretty decent.  A lot of students were on free lunch programs.  I saw concern here that kids out of school because of the pandemic would not be eating at all.  That is truly a sad statement if accurate.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 01:29:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2021, 01:16:55 PM

There's a thought, using some sort of reasonably advanced vending machines, stocked with at least decent sandwiches.  How hard is it to provide a sandwich?

It sounds as if your school meals are far worse than what our HS served routinely.

Our HS also provided breakfasts which were pretty decent.  A lot of students were on free lunch programs.  I saw concern here that kids out of school because of the pandemic would not be eating at all.  That is truly a sad statement if accurate.

We had a drive-thru lunch hand-out system on days our district was closed to students.  It's still going on now, even as 2/3-3/4 of the students are back in person.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 01:39:11 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2021, 01:16:55 PM

There's a thought, using some sort of reasonably advanced vending machines, stocked with at least decent sandwiches.  How hard is it to provide a sandwich?

It sounds as if your school meals are far worse than what our HS served routinely.

I think eating even fresh food from vending machines is as common in Japan as fast food is here.  It could absolutely replace a lot of the bad food service infrastructure we have.

I assume school lunches have gotten worse as time has passed - as companies keep finding ways to provide worse barely acceptable for cheaper, while remaining legal.
This is what all of the pro-corporate guys here don't understand:  what I just said is the end game.  Finding ways to provide the least acceptable for cheaper, while remaining legal.  That's how it works, at least in this industry at this time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2021, 01:50:40 PM

I'm not pro-corporate, I'm pro DATA and information instead of blanket emotional response and reactions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2021, 01:52:01 PM

Why the Arabic World Turned Away from Science — The New Atlantis (https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/why-the-arabic-world-turned-away-from-science)

To anyone familiar with this Golden Age, roughly spanning the eighth through the thirteenth centuries a.d., the disparity between the intellectual achievements of the Middle East then and now — particularly relative to the rest of the world — is staggering indeed. In his 2002 book What Went Wrong? (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060516054?ie=UTF8&tag=the-new-atlantis-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=1789&creativeASIN=0060516054), historian Bernard Lewis notes that “for many centuries the world of Islam was in the forefront of human civilization and achievement.” “Nothing in Europe,” notes Jamil Ragep (http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/30/science/how-islam-won-and-lost-the-lead-in-science.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm), a professor of the history of science at the University of Oklahoma, “could hold a candle to what was going on in the Islamic world until about 1600.” Algebra, algorithm, alchemy, alcohol, alkali, nadir, zenith, coffee, and lemon: these words all derive from Arabic, reflecting Islam’s contribution to the West.
Today, however, the spirit of science in the Muslim world is as dry as the desert. Pakistani physicist Pervez Amirali Hoodbhoy laid out the grim statistics in a 2007 Physics Today article (http://scitation.aip.org/journals/doc/PHTOAD-ft/vol_60/iss_8/49_1.shtml?bypassSSO=1): Muslim countries have nine scientists, engineers, and technicians per thousand people, compared with a world average of forty-one. In these nations, there are approximately 1,800 universities, but only 312 of those universities have scholars who have published journal articles. Of the fifty most-published of these universities, twenty-six are in Turkey, nine are in Iran, three each are in Malaysia and Egypt, Pakistan has two, and Uganda, the U.A.E., Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Kuwait, Jordan, and Azerbaijan each have one.
There are roughly 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, but only two scientists (http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/444035a) from Muslim countries have won Nobel Prizes in science (one for physics in 1979, the other for chemistry in 1999). Forty-six Muslim countries combined contribute just 1 percent of the world’s scientific literature; Spain and India each contribute more of the world’s scientific literature than those countries taken together. In fact, although Spain is hardly an intellectual superpower, it translates more books (http://www.arab-hdr.org/publications/other/ahdr/ahdr2002e.pdf) in a single year than the entire Arab world has in the past thousand years. “Though there are talented scientists of Muslim origin working productively in the West,” Nobel laureate physicist Steven Weinberg has observed (http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/the_tls/tls_selections/religion/article2305888.ece), “for forty years I have not seen a single paper by a physicist or astronomer working in a Muslim country that was worth reading.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2021, 01:52:33 PM

Given that Arabic science was the most advanced in the world up until about the thirteenth century, it is tempting to ask what went wrong — why it is that modern science did not arise from Baghdad or Cairo or Córdoba. We will turn to this question later, but it is important to keep in mind that the decline of scientific activity is the rule, not the exception, of civilizations. While it is commonplace to assume that the scientific revolution and the progress of technology were inevitable, in fact the West is the single sustained success story out of many civilizations with periods of scientific flourishing. Like the Muslims, the ancient Chinese and Indian civilizations, both of which were at one time far more advanced than the West, did not produce the scientific revolution.

Nevertheless, while the decline of Arabic civilization is not exceptional, the reasons for it offer insights into the history and nature of Islam and its relationship with modernity. Islam’s decline as an intellectual and political force was gradual but pronounced: while the Golden Age was extraordinarily productive, with the contributions made by Arabic thinkers often original and groundbreaking, the past seven hundred years tell a very different story.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 21, 2021, 02:37:27 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 11:39:50 AM

@Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595)
I'm no expert about the restaurant business, but I do know that if you have one ultra-successful place in mind to mimic and not accept that you'll probably have a joint more like the other 99.9%, you've deceived yourself and you'll fail. 

I'd much rather be knowledgeable and want to know the ins and outs of the 50th percentile restaurant over the 99th before I make any decision.

Yeah I'd agree with this. I think it's very hard to duplicate- but much easier feat to achieve if you're only doing like 1 or 2 more. 

I think where restaurants really go to shit is when they try to expand to any further than 3. It's so hard to keep quality and standards high at one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2021, 02:37:31 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 01:39:11 PM

I think eating even fresh food from vending machines is as common in Japan as fast food is here.  It could absolutely replace a lot of the bad food service infrastructure we have.

I assume school lunches have gotten worse as time has passed - as companies keep finding ways to provide worse barely acceptable for cheaper, while remaining legal.
This is what all of the pro-corporate guys here don't understand:  what I just said is the end game.  Finding ways to provide the least acceptable for cheaper, while remaining legal.  That's how it works, at least in this industry at this time.

But there is a second part of that. We give gov't power to define what a legal lunch is--but via regulatory capture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture) you end up with the decisions of making the rules being corrupted by industry.

I find that for the pro-government folks, they assume that putting more decision-making power in the hands of government means that we'll get better decisions, in the best interests of the kids. 

But that usually doesn't happen. Voters want kids to have healthy lunches, but don't have the incentive or the time to actually base voting decisions on that matter, and very few elected officials are running on that platform anyway. But industry players have HUGE incentive to try to influence the process. 

It's the standard lobbying problem. Concentrated benefit but diffuse costs [or effects] means that those with the most incentive to lobby do so, while those footing the bill or affected way downstream of the decision have very little control over the outcome and not enough benefit to justify trying to lobby. 

We all know that corporations will lobby the government for the most favorable rules they can get. What you haven't identified is how we fix it, other than "we should fix it."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 21, 2021, 02:38:10 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2021, 12:26:34 PM

I think it has demonstrated why chains are a better idea than a one off place.  Chains are doing pretty well since last year.

yeah, but chains suck. food almost always sucks at chain places.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2021, 02:38:37 PM

a pretzel with cheese was never a main course for a school lunch in Iowa as far as I know.

I did quit wondering about 5 years ago when my youngest graduated

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2021, 02:42:32 PM

I think most problems such as this are complex.  It's facile to focus blame on ONE cause, usually, when the causes are likely multifaceted, and not simple, else they would have been fixed.  But it's more convenient to see a problem and constantly blame ONE entity, whichever you favor, Dems, Reps, Big Business, Labor Unions, Eastern Michigan, Fox News, NPR, Biden, Trump, illegal immigrants, ...

I know some on FB who blame EVERYTHING on ONE cause, consistently.    Life is rarely that simple.  But it makes us happier to think it is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2021, 02:42:48 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 21, 2021, 02:38:10 PM

yeah, but chains suck. food almost always sucks at chain places.

I'm not sure why a chain would do better at being competitive in the market than a local spot.

there are some economies of scale, but as we've discussed, a good manager at Outback or Old Chicago can make that particular spot a success, while poor management at the Outback across town or in the next city might suck.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2021, 02:43:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2021, 02:42:32 PM

I think most problems such as this are complex.  It's facile to focus blame on ONE cause, usually, when the causes are likely multifaceted, and not simple, else they would have been fixed.  But it's more convenient to see a problem and constantly blame ONE entity, whichever you favor, Dems, Reps, Big Business, Labor Unions, Eastern Michigan, Fox News, NPR, Biden, Trump, illegal immigrants, ...

I know some on FB who blame EVERYTHING on ONE cause, consistently.    Life is rarely that simple.  But it makes us happier to think it is.

Bobby Stoops

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2021, 02:53:56 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 21, 2021, 02:42:48 PM

I'm not sure why a chain would do better at being competitive in the market than a local spot.

there are some economies of scale, but as we've discussed, a good manager at Outback or Old Chicago can make that particular spot a success, while poor management at the Outback across town or in the next city might suck.

The "good chains" have a System that works and that they enforce religiously with inspections.  They have economies of scale on advertising.  You also usually know what you can expect at a "Crackerbarrel", whereas you don't at "Joe's Diner".  Chains also do surveys on locations where their chain is likely to succeed, and they have Deep Pockets and so can usually survive a Black Swan event.  The private place may have closed up eliminating one competitive option from the area.

My step son in law worked for one of the main Italian chains when he got out of CIA and he recounted the "System" for fixing everything, and how it was quite efficient and competent.  They have test kitchens to keep the menu freshened up also.  The corporate "system" simply can outpace "Joe" diner across the board, which is why we have so many chains now.

I personally avoid them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2021, 03:02:56 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 21, 2021, 02:38:10 PM

yeah, but chains suck. food almost always sucks at chain places.

Most people (i.e. "the masses") wouldn't know good food if they were forced to consume it "A Clockwork Orange" style...

Quote

No one in this world, so far as I know—and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me—has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby. The mistake that is made always runs the other way. Because the plain people are able to speak and understand, and even, in many cases, to read and write, it is assumed that they have ideas in their heads, and an appetite for more. This assumption is a folly.
-H.L. Mencken

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2021, 03:17:12 PM

Places like Seasons 52 and the Lettuce chains are pretty darn good. Definitely exceptions, of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2021, 03:31:18 PM

Seasons 52 is pretty good, part of the Red Lobster chain (which I once viewed as pretty good also).  I just won't drive out of my way to go there.

It seemed most of the options around us in Cincy were chains, but that was the 'burbs.  Around us here, there aren't many chains at all, there are some mid-upscale places that have 5 or 6 different places collectively with differing themes, like Lure and Ecco and South City Chicken, part of Fifth Group.

We have a place called Sugar Factory which is apparently a chain and very popular with African Americans for some reason.  The menu looks OK, it's regular good, have not tried it yet.  We were out looking for brunch Sunday and traffic was a mess and many many folks were out walking or standing in line for a place to dine at 2 PM.  We ended up at the new Korean Fried Chicken place (Mukja) and got takeout to eat across the street outside.  We try to support the one offs.

We've gone to STK a few times for their happy hour stuff, dinner there gets steep in a hurry, and it's not all that great IMHO.

There is a place called Gun Show I've been trying to get in for weeks now without luck.

Gunshow - Glenwood Park, Atlanta, GA (gunshowatl.com) (https://gunshowatl.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2021, 03:45:05 PM

True, there are high-end chain restaurants. 

There are also mid-tier chain restaurants that don't completely suck. Heck, Chili's actually seasons their food. It's not tremendously awesome, but at least it has flavor, unlike Applebee's, TGI Fridays, and Chotchkie's.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2021, 04:02:01 PM

If the mid-tier chains, I'd probably pick Crackerbarrel because their stuff is pretty simple.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 04:05:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2021, 01:50:40 PM

I'm not pro-corporate, I'm pro DATA and information instead of blanket emotional response and reactions.

Have I been too emo for you?  Or do I have firsthand knowledge?  I get those mixed up sometimes, too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 04:08:18 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2021, 02:42:32 PM

I think most problems such as this are complex.  It's facile to focus blame on ONE cause, usually, when the causes are likely multifaceted, and not simple, else they would have been fixed. 

This is the most adorable thing I've read in a long time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 04:10:13 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2021, 02:37:31 PM

What you haven't identified is how we fix it, other than "we should fix it."

The fix to better school lunches is the same answer to any problem where the big, rich entity gets richer as the poorest with no voice suffer.  It'd be one helluva thing for me to come up with.  I'm not there yet.  How's that?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 04:13:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2021, 02:53:56 PM

The "good chains" have a System that works and that they enforce religiously with inspections.  They have economies of scale on advertising.  You also usually know what you can expect at a "Crackerbarrel", whereas you don't at "Joe's Diner".  Chains also do surveys on locations where their chain is likely to succeed, and they have Deep Pockets and so can usually survive a Black Swan event.  The private place may have closed up eliminating one competitive option from the area.

My step son in law worked for one of the main Italian chains when he got out of CIA and he recounted the "System" for fixing everything, and how it was quite efficient and competent.  They have test kitchens to keep the menu freshened up also.  The corporate "system" simply can outpace "Joe" diner across the board, which is why we have so many chains now.

I personally avoid them.

This.
It's why McDonalds is a thing. 
Consistency. 
Not high-quality consistency, simply consistency.  People value it, perhaps subconsciously, but they value it.
Local joints may have consistent ownership, but their servers have turnover, their chef leaves, etc......bye-bye consistency. 
Plus something I don't think most consider:  your first visit isn't necessarily their average.  You may love it your first visit, but they were at a 9 instead of their usual 5.  So most subsequent visits will be especially disappointing.

If McDonalds is always a 3.5, you get an accurate portrayal your first visit, it meets your visit on subsequent visits, and you can come to rely on it.  No, it's not a 7, but it's consistent.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2021, 04:20:12 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 04:10:13 PM

The fix to better school lunches is the same answer to any problem where the big, rich entity gets richer as the poorest with no voice suffer.  It'd be one helluva thing for me to come up with.  I'm not there yet.  How's that?

Government (I think federal, although I may be mistaken) sets the nutrition standards. Local school districts negotiate the contracts with the foodservice companies. 

Seems that if someone's shorting the kids, there are more people involved than the big corporations. Most of whom aren't dominated by the profit motive and are [supposedly] driven by ensuring the well-being of the kids.

I admit the companies are doing everything they can to stack the odds in their favor. Where's the culpability for the purchasers of foodservice for their portion of the systemic failure?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 04:35:49 PM

I think it, like with many things, is a case of a lack of options.  A one-company monopoly is sort of an invention - even if 3 companies dominate an industry, they act the same as a monopoly.


Part of the issue on the government's end is a failure to plan for the imagination of the food producers and school districts.  
Gov't:  your main entree must have X-calories, including y% carbs and z% of protein, but must not exceed 2y% fat (thinking they'll serve students traditional main course options)
.
Food producing corporation (and here's why I place the blame here, amongst a multi-problem issue):  choose one of these:
a - bagged pair of cheeseburger sliders (including garbage meat 51% actual meat) (legal, as per the gov't requirements)
b - bagged pretzel w/ cheese dip (legal, as per the gov't requirements)
c - (which I doubt is even a thing, because of $$$) a lovely, freshly-made enchilada 
.
School district:  uhhhh, well, we can only afford a or b........we ordered a last year and many students didn't eat it, so let's go with b.  

The school system had tons of money - but the "piles of money" are all segmented.  I think a differentiation of money for the actual food separated from the food service costs/salaries, etc. would be a good idea.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 04:38:10 PM

For all of you comparing back in the day to now, when it comes to school lunches - the kitchen staff rarely cooks anything.  It's basically heated and/or bagged.  
If there's one industry we don't want run like all the others, wouldn't it be this?  Just feed the kids quality food.  Fresh food.  100% actual meat, not grade D pink slime meat.  

Why is that an absurd, emotional request?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2021, 04:43:52 PM

Here is the middle school menu from the school dist I live in

https://www.cfisd.net/download_file/34090/1537

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 04:52:45 PM

Yeah, it's the frozen food section of your grocery store.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2021, 04:57:40 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 04:52:45 PM

Yeah, it's the frozen food section of your grocery store. 

Roasted corn
Fresh Apple Slices
Fruit Cobbler
Garden Salad
BBQ Baked Beans
Spaghetti and Meatballs

more then the frozen food section

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2021, 04:58:39 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 04:38:10 PM

For all of you comparing back in the day to now, when it comes to school lunches - the kitchen staff rarely cooks anything.  It's basically heated and/or bagged. 
If there's one industry we don't want run like all the others, wouldn't it be this?  Just feed the kids quality food.  Fresh food.  100% actual meat, not grade D pink slime meat. 

Why is that an absurd, emotional request? 

It's not. The question is HOW?

This is often one of those "forgotten" issues that's item #7463 on the priority list. It doesn't get tons of press or attention...

BUT THAT CHANGED!

We had a champion of this in the White House. It's common for the First Lady to champion some sort of cause, and for Michelle Obama it was childhood health/obesity/nutrition. 

We even had legislation passed for this in 2010:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthy,_Hunger-Free_Kids_Act_of_2010

And yet... No real progress. 

If Michelle couldn't get it done, what hope do the rest of us have?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2021, 05:00:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 04:10:13 PM

The fix to better school lunches is the same answer to any problem where the big, rich entity gets richer as the poorest with no voice suffer.  It'd be one helluva thing for me to come up with.  I'm not there yet.  How's that?

I told you how to do it.

Let them make their own - part of home economics - with quality ingredients sourced from grocery stores who want to make a donation to kids in need.

Home economics would also include sewing, basic household repairs, managing a checkbook/finances, etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 21, 2021, 05:00:56 PM

I recall Michelle Obama getting criticized because she ate ribs. Tough to get much done in this country.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2021, 05:01:47 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2021, 04:58:39 PM

If Michelle couldn't get it done, what hope do the rest of us have?

Bring private industry into the solution, and make it local. That's how shit gets done. F the government. They don't know Jack from Jill. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 05:01:57 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 21, 2021, 04:57:40 PM

Roasted corn
Fresh Apple Slices
Fruit Cobbler
Garden Salad
BBQ Baked Beans
Spaghetti and Meatballs

more then the frozen food section

I'll just say what's written down sounds better than the reality of what's put on the tray.  The spaghetti you're picturing isn't the spaghetti they're getting.  
Unless I'm wrong and they cook it on-site, which would be fantastic.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2021, 05:02:43 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 21, 2021, 05:00:56 PM

I recall Michelle Obama getting criticized because she ate ribs. Tough to get much done in this country.

Human ribs? 

Otherwise, what the hell is wrong with eating ribs once a month or so? I don't get that one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 05:03:01 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2021, 05:00:26 PM

I told you how to do it.

Let them make their own - part of home economics - with quality ingredients sourced from grocery stores who want to make a donation to kids in need.

Home economics would also include sewing, basic household repairs, managing a checkbook/finances, etc.

Changing a tire and a "So you want a credit card" video would go a long way, lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 05:04:06 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2021, 05:02:43 PM

Human ribs?

Otherwise, what the hell is wrong with eating ribs once a month or so? I don't get that one.

This is how conspiracy theories start.  Don't let Area 51 see this post.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 05:06:02 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 21, 2021, 04:43:52 PM

Here is the middle school menu from the school dist I live in

https://www.cfisd.net/download_file/34090/1537

My chubby kid eating a cinnabun and a chili dog is fun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 21, 2021, 05:08:42 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 05:01:57 PM

I'll just say what's written down sounds better than the reality of what's put on the tray.  The spaghetti you're picturing isn't the spaghetti they're getting. 
Unless I'm wrong and they cook it on-site, which would be fantastic. 

I can't speak to the spaghetti in lh320's school district in Houston, but our school menus look similar and the enchiladas in my school district in Austin are definitely scratch made, and they're pretty tasty.  Of course, we could DEFINITELY argue over whether or not they're healthful...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2021, 05:12:01 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2021, 02:53:56 PM

The "good chains" have a System that works and that they enforce religiously with inspections.  They have economies of scale on advertising.  You also usually know what you can expect at a "Crackerbarrel", whereas you don't at "Joe's Diner".  Chains also do surveys on locations where their chain is likely to succeed, and they have Deep Pockets and so can usually survive a Black Swan event.  The private place may have closed up eliminating one competitive option from the area.

My step son in law worked for one of the main Italian chains when he got out of CIA and he recounted the "System" for fixing everything, and how it was quite efficient and competent.  They have test kitchens to keep the menu freshened up also.  The corporate "system" simply can outpace "Joe" diner across the board, which is why we have so many chains now.

I personally avoid them.

I personally avoid them as well, but I did dine at the local Red Lobster last night.  Better than average seafood for this area. IMO

I understand the advantages of Chains, but think most of those advantages can be implemented by single local restaurateurs. 
Such as having a savings account to survive some tough luck.
It's just that most aren't good at accounting or business plans.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2021, 05:13:01 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2021, 03:02:56 PM

Most people (i.e. "the masses") wouldn't know good food if they were forced to consume it "A Clockwork Orange" style...

almost like the masses were brought up with the school lunch program?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 21, 2021, 05:17:12 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2021, 05:02:43 PM

Human ribs?

Otherwise, what the hell is wrong with eating ribs once a month or so? I don't get that one.

I often feel the universe is playing an elaborate trick on me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2021, 05:52:41 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2021, 05:02:43 PM

Human ribs?

Otherwise, what the hell is wrong with eating ribs once a month or so? I don't get that one.

Umm, partisan politics? 

I swear there was a portion of the population that, as soon as Michelle Obama said she wanted kids to eat healthy, said "Honey, git the vat of gravy. We gonna give 'em gravy and screw vegetables."

It's just gotcha crap. If she's telling kids to eat healthy and scarfing down some ribs, ONCE, on camera, it must be because she's an ivory-tower hypocrite, right? 

Stupid. But it plays well to the masses.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2021, 06:05:24 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2021, 05:52:41 PM

Umm, partisan politics?

I swear there was a portion of the population that, as soon as Michelle Obama said she wanted kids to eat healthy, said "Honey, git the vat of gravy. We gonna give 'em gravy and screw vegetables."

It's just gotcha crap. If she's telling kids to eat healthy and scarfing down some ribs, ONCE, on camera, it must be because she's an ivory-tower hypocrite, right?

Stupid. But it plays well to the masses.

actually most folks I know were just saying this isnt a Federal matter and should be left up to the states

everything the Fed gets involved in they screw up and now they want to tell us what to feed our kids

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2021, 06:12:39 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 21, 2021, 06:05:24 PM

actually most folks I know were just saying this isnt a Federal matter and should be left up to the states

everything the Fed gets involved in they screw up and now they want to tell us what to feed our kids

They've been telling you* what to feed your* kids for decades.

That is, if you're poor, and if your kids are on the federally-subsidized school lunch program, which has been around since Truman in 1946.

In that case, then yes, SOMEONE should be making sure that those dollars are going to healthy, nutritious meals.

BTW that's one of the reasons this issue gets little traction...

I'm not poor. My kids eat better than most adults in this country. At least when they're at my house at least; I can't speak to their mom. I send them with lunch every day, and it's a healthy balanced lunch. 

So I paid little attention to Michelle Obama's initiatives; they didn't affect me or my kids at all.

I also pay little attention to school lunch options; they don't affect me or my kids at all.

Hence why this system isn't being reformed. If my kids were affected I might take an interest in school lunch options, and might organize my fellow parents of school-aged children to fight for better options. But they're not... So I don't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2021, 06:23:31 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2021, 06:12:39 PM

They've been telling you* what to feed your* kids for decades.

That is, if you're poor, and if your kids are on the federally-subsidized school lunch program, which has been around since Truman in 1946.

In that case, then yes, SOMEONE should be making sure that those dollars are going to healthy, nutritious meals.

BTW that's one of the reasons this issue gets little traction...

I'm not poor. My kids eat better than most adults in this country. At least when they're at my house at least; I can't speak to their mom. I send them with lunch every day, and it's a healthy balanced lunch.

So I paid little attention to Michelle Obama's initiatives; they didn't affect me or my kids at all.

I also pay little attention to school lunch options; they don't affect me or my kids at all.

Hence why this system isn't being reformed. If my kids were affected I might take an interest in school lunch options, and might organize my fellow parents of school-aged children to fight for better options. But they're not... So I don't.

so we are in agreement
when the Fed runs things it gets screwed up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 07:26:55 PM

You can't be that simple.  Please.  Show. Some.  Depth.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 07:27:32 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2021, 06:12:39 PM

They've been telling you* what to feed your* kids for decades.

That is, if you're poor, and if your kids are on the federally-subsidized school lunch program, which has been around since Truman in 1946.

In that case, then yes, SOMEONE should be making sure that those dollars are going to healthy, nutritious meals.

BTW that's one of the reasons this issue gets little traction...

I'm not poor. My kids eat better than most adults in this country. At least when they're at my house at least; I can't speak to their mom. I send them with lunch every day, and it's a healthy balanced lunch.

So I paid little attention to Michelle Obama's initiatives; they didn't affect me or my kids at all.

I also pay little attention to school lunch options; they don't affect me or my kids at all.

Hence why this system isn't being reformed. If my kids were affected I might take an interest in school lunch options, and might organize my fellow parents of school-aged children to fight for better options. But they're not... So I don't.

This.
People who could enact change aren't adversely affected.
So no change occurs. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2021, 07:35:06 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 07:26:55 PM

You can't be that simple.  Please.  Show. Some.  Depth. 

pretty simple 

keep the feds out of it if you want improvement

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 21, 2021, 11:53:20 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2021, 05:00:26 PM

I told you how to do it.

Let them make their own - part of home economics - with quality ingredients sourced from grocery stores who want to make a donation to kids in need.

Home economics would also include sewing, basic household repairs, managing a checkbook/finances, etc.

I wonder when that turn of phrase will phase out. I'm past 30, and I've never done it, nor do I have too much of an idea what it entails. 

That said, I do thing that home econ style class is good, albeit I'd change the name. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2021, 11:58:21 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 21, 2021, 11:53:20 PM

I wonder when that turn of phrase will phase out. I'm past 30, and I've never done it, nor do I have too much of an idea what it entails.

That said, I do thing that home econ style class is good, albeit I'd change the name.

Youve never managed a checkbook?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 22, 2021, 12:07:36 AM

What's a checkbook?  Or a billfold.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 22, 2021, 06:38:59 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 10:18:46 AM

Hasn't this pandemic proven that restaurants aren't a great idea to pump money into?  Thin margins and more at the whim of the economics of the masses than most other enterprises? 

Banking on a rebound be my guess

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 22, 2021, 06:43:34 AM

On a good front my suburb seems primed to nullify the open container law for downtown. This is long overdue and makes it a lot organic to hang out downtown. So restaurants will definitely be getting more of my money.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 22, 2021, 06:46:37 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 12:52:16 PM

Yup.
One teacher at my school sends out numerous, obnoxious emails about gathering money together to buy powerball tickets.  Most people put $5 in, including the principal.

I abstain.

you only have to get lucky once

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 22, 2021, 06:52:12 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 21, 2021, 01:01:22 PM

there's nothing wrong with gambling if you understand the odds and realize the more you gamble the more you will lose

as Glenn Frey sang "It's the lure of easy money it's got a very strong appeal"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 22, 2021, 08:03:24 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 21, 2021, 11:58:21 PM

Youve never managed a checkbook?

I mean, I have a checkbook. It’s full of checks about 15 of which I write each year. The book it self seems to require minimal management. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 22, 2021, 08:16:14 AM

Let me tell you about a time before online banking...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 22, 2021, 09:03:13 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 22, 2021, 12:07:36 AM

What's a checkbook?  Or a billfold. 

Those things that you keep on either side of your coin purse.
(no, not the coin purse that's nestled between your front pockets)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2021, 09:20:04 AM

Areas where the Federal government has had some success:

EPA - yes, maybe using means that weren't always efficient, but stuff is cleaner now
OSHA - well, improvement, I think, but the paperwork is ridiculous
IRS? - My dealings with them sorted out eventually in my favor, they at least were polite with me
SS & Medicare - pretty useful though obviously in financial straits

Areas where success has been less obvious:

DoEd
DoEnergy - I have a particular bone about the fuel ethanol thing
Military procurement
Patent and Trademark Office - what a mess
HUD
Interior
..... the list is pretty long here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 22, 2021, 09:36:46 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 22, 2021, 06:43:34 AM

On a good front my suburb seems primed to nullify the open container law for downtown. This is long overdue and makes it a lot organic to hang out downtown. So restaurants will definitely be getting more of my money.

Westerville? 


From dry town to public drinking in 25 years? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 22, 2021, 10:02:29 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 22, 2021, 08:03:24 AM

I mean, I have a checkbook. It’s full of checks about 15 of which I write each year. The book it self seems to require minimal management.

all I can say is Banks make errors all the time so if you dont manage your checkbook or something independent of online banking info you will not catch these errors should they happen

maybe youre the guy who simply looks at your balance and thinks looks ok to me

banks love that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 22, 2021, 10:22:37 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 22, 2021, 10:02:29 AM

all I can say is Banks make errors all the time so if you dont manage your checkbook or something independent of online banking info you will not catch these errors should they happen

maybe youre the guy who simply looks at your balance and thinks looks ok to me

banks love that

Usually looks ok. More money goes in then goes out. Then when the number gets too large, big chunks go into savings.

(i’m actually pretty fastidious about tracking my finances. Really almost never have banking mistakes. Much of the stuff is too automated at this point. And I agree with Badge financial literacy and such should be part of our educational curriculum, oh Lord knows, there are some topics I still don’t have a great grasp on. But none of those have to do with my checkbook)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2021, 10:33:35 AM

had an issue with a bank 10 years ago or so.  around $1,000 disappeared.

I keep paperwork and records and was able to show them the issue.  They were unconvinced. and accepted no blame.

I contemplated taking this to my lawyer, but finally just moved all my accounts to the local small town bank.

no issues since, but the small town bank was sold a few years ago to a large bank.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 22, 2021, 10:52:55 AM

Can't trust them big city types, I tell you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 22, 2021, 10:56:16 AM

Like BAB, I don't "balance my checkbook" in any traditional sense.

I have a spreadsheet with two main columns, "cleared" and "pending". The top number in "cleared" is my current balance. I typically only write one check per month (rent), but via online bill pay, debit card transactions, etc, there are a lot of transactions that aren't immediately charged and show up in online banking.

I go through online banking every couple of days to look at what has officially cleared and move it to the cleared column, confirm that everything lines up perfectly with what I expect, and then delete everything but the top line of "cleared" which is my balance as of all those transactions. 

I like it because it automatically sums everything in the "cleared" and "pending" columns and I have a third location where it shows the sum of those debits so I know what's left at all times. 

Effectively I'm "balancing my checkbook" but it's not a checkbook.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2021, 11:01:38 AM

I'm pretty casual with my "checking", which is done through Schwab.  No issues that I've noticed.  The thing that I still get surprised by is the SS payment each month.

Suddenly the balanced goes up appreciably and I can't think why, for a second.

Oh yeah.

Gubmint.

My goal was to have all my finances with Schwab once I retired, and I have only one other account because of residual stock options.  That is now with ETrade who completely mangled the account opening when the company decided to use them instead of doing it themselves.  As soon as my options expire in two years, I will close that account utterly and with disdain and relief.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 22, 2021, 11:04:36 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 22, 2021, 10:33:35 AM

I keep paperwork and records and was able to show them the issue.  They were unconvinced. and accepted no blame.

so they stiffed you for a grand?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 22, 2021, 11:10:54 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 22, 2021, 10:56:16 AM

Like BAB, I don't "balance my checkbook" in any traditional sense.

I have a spreadsheet with two main columns, "cleared" and "pending". The top number in "cleared" is my current balance. I typically only write one check per month (rent), but via online bill pay, debit card transactions, etc, there are a lot of transactions that aren't immediately charged and show up in online banking.

I go through online banking every couple of days to look at what has officially cleared and move it to the cleared column, confirm that everything lines up perfectly with what I expect, and then delete everything but the top line of "cleared" which is my balance as of all those transactions.

I like it because it automatically sums everything in the "cleared" and "pending" columns and I have a third location where it shows the sum of those debits so I know what's left at all times.

Effectively I'm "balancing my checkbook" but it's not a checkbook.

that should work

as long as youre accounting for everything hitting your account no problem

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2021, 11:34:40 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 22, 2021, 11:04:36 AM

so they stiffed you for a grand?

I'm pretty sure, but couldn't prove it to them.

Someone did, I'm real sure of that.  Just couldn't pin it on them.

It happened as one bank was purchased by another bank.  During the merger.
After the merger I get my "new" account statement and PooF!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 22, 2021, 11:40:31 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 12:52:16 PM

Yup.
One teacher at my school sends out numerous, obnoxious emails about gathering money together to buy powerball tickets.  Most people put $5 in, including the principal.

I abstain.

The thing that makes those offers hard to pass up is that say you have nine co-workers (I'm sure your school is bigger than that, this is just a hypothetical). If all but you go in on powerball and it hits, your nine co-workers are all going to retire into luxury while you are stuck doing the work of 10 people and training nine replacements. It might rationally be worth the $5 to avoid the possibility of that fate.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2021, 12:09:53 PM

A really good idea with a large price tag and no funding.

Midtown’s highway-capping park boosters release new video, continue outreach | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/midtown-park-over-highway-connector-georgia-tech)

This freeway, the "Downtown Connector", divides midtown with one side enjoying massive growth and the other not so much (yet).  Great concept anyway.  Maybe they can manage something smaller.

(https://i.imgur.com/VHB609C.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 22, 2021, 12:10:35 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on April 22, 2021, 11:40:31 AM

The thing that makes those offers hard to pass up is that say you have nine co-workers (I'm sure your school is bigger than that, this is just a hypothetical). If all but you go in on powerball and it hits, your nine co-workers are all going to retire into luxury while you are stuck doing the work of 10 people and training nine replacements. It might rationally be worth the $5 to avoid the possibility of that fate.

Yeah, that's the hard part. 

You'll never miss the winning lottery ticket you didn't purchase. But you WILL miss the winning lottery ticket that was offered to you that you didn't join, when you see everyone else win.

That said, Powerball drawings happen ~9 times a month. $5 each time is $45/mo. That's $540/year (although likely lower if they don't do this over the summer and school breaks). Average stock market return is ~9%.

That amount invested annually over the span of 40 years is $240K. 

So if it's a one-time deal, especially if it's a major Powerball jackpot, I'd say spend the $5.  If it's every drawing, twice a week, then I don't know that it's worth it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 22, 2021, 12:11:38 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2021, 12:57:16 PM

Yep. I do it maybe 3 times a year as an absurd fantasy.

I noticed this years ago.

• Blackjack has a payout of about 99%
• Craps has a payout of about 98%
• Roulette has a payout of 94.7%
• Slot machines typically payout about 90%
• State lotteries typically payout about 62%

Based on the above, nobody should ever play slot machines let alone lotteries but they do, why?

The answer is the absurd fantasy.

• If you drop $10 on a hand of blackjack your best-case-scenario is to win $15.
• Craps is more complex but the highest payout is 30:1 so if you drop $10 on a 2/12 bet and win you get $300.
• With roulette it depends on what you are playing but the highest payout is 35:1 so if you drop $10 and win you get $350.

None of the above are life-changing or even close.

The absurd fantasy with slots/lotteries is that you can drop $10 (or less) and hit a life-changing payout. That is what keeps people playing despite vastly superior odds offered by other forms of gambling.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 22, 2021, 12:20:19 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on April 22, 2021, 12:11:38 PM

I noticed this years ago.

• Blackjack has a payout of about 99%
• Craps has a payout of about 98%
• Roulette has a payout of 94.7%
• Slot machines typically payout about 90%
• State lotteries typically payout about 62%

Based on the above, nobody should ever play slot machines let alone lotteries but they do, why?

The answer is the absurd fantasy.

• If you drop $10 on a hand of blackjack your best-case-scenario is to win $15.
• Craps is more complex but the highest payout is 30:1 so if you drop $10 on a 2/12 bet and win you get $300.
• With roulette it depends on what you are playing but the highest payout is 35:1 so if you drop $10 and win you get $350.

None of the above are life-changing or even close.

The absurd fantasy with slots/lotteries is that you can drop $10 (or less) and hit a life-changing payout. That is what keeps people playing despite vastly superior odds offered by other forms of gambling.

actually craps is just about the only casino game where you can get true odds on a bet after the point has been established

the 99% blackjack assumes various rules are in affect and you play perfect basic strategy course if you count the odds can swing in your favor

never play roulette slots or keno they are sucker games

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 22, 2021, 12:21:57 PM

Exactly. 


Anyone who regularly plays the lottery is simply throwing money away that could be used for REAL wealth-building. 

I don't regularly play the lottery. Two or three times a year, often when I'm getting oil changes where I'm not only stuck in the gas/carwash/oil service center for ~45 minutes but I ALSO need to be carrying cash to tip the car wash guys, I'll throw $10 down on a lotto ticket. The opportunity cost of that $20-30 over the span of 12 months is what, a case of beer? It's certainly not going into my 401K or E*trade account. So it's worth the absurd fantasy.

Now, though, I'll tell you the really funny [and even more absurd] part...

I don't play Powerball or Megamillions. I only play California Superlotto. 

Why? Because the odds of winning Superlotto are 1 in 41M, and a ticket only costs a doller, so for $10 I have odds of 1 in 4.1M.

The odds of Powerball are 1 in 292M and Megamillions are 1 in 301M, and a ticket costs $2. So my $10 basically gives me about 1 in 60M odds of winning. 

Both are absurd fantasies, but my rational brain doesn't allow me to take the worse odds for the larger payout, because Superlotto payouts are "enough" lol...

I'd rather take 1 in 4.1M odds of winning $12M than 1 in 60M odds of winning $500M+. Because $12M is still life-changing money. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 22, 2021, 12:37:09 PM

I'll play SuperLotto and/or Megamillions when they get ridiculously huge, so maybe a couple of times per year, if that often.  It's worth the quick thrill for minimal investment.

And ya never know, eventually SOMEBODY wins it... :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2021, 12:39:01 PM

For those who can spare a few bucks, it's fine, entertainment.  For those who can't it's a tax on the poor.  But when we didn't have it, the Mafia benefitted.

I often muse if I won say $10 million it wouldn't change much in my life.  I'd give most of it away.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 22, 2021, 12:41:40 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 22, 2021, 11:34:40 AM

I'm pretty sure, but couldn't prove it to them.

Someone did, I'm real sure of that.  Just couldn't pin it on them.

It happened as one bank was purchased by another bank.  During the merger.
After the merger I get my "new" account statement and PooF!

Even if you lawyer up and win you lose unless they could be forced to cover your attorney fees.Like when the IRS fined me $600.00 for a 35 dollar share I didn't know I had - that is now wrth 17.00.But AIG gets bailed out and Cyber Security firms walk away with 1.8 billion on systems that failed.They get the gold mine and we get the shaft :character0029:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 22, 2021, 12:43:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 22, 2021, 12:39:01 PM

I often muse if I won say $10 million it wouldn't change much in my life.  I'd give most of it away.

Play often and check your inbox for my number 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 22, 2021, 12:50:00 PM

Cincydawg- do you know anything about Brunswick, GA? My brother just got a piece of property there under contract, going to head out there in a couple of weeks to see it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2021, 12:52:32 PM

A little, not much, I took the wife to Jekyll Island a few years ago and we walked around Brunswick one day, found a great restaurant.

I'd call it a bit sleepy aside from tourists like me.

Jekyll is nice.  St. Simon's Island is nice.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 22, 2021, 12:52:40 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 22, 2021, 12:50:00 PM

Cincydawg- do you know anything about Brunswick, GA? My brother just got a piece of property there under contract, going to head out there in a couple of weeks to see it.

I’ve only driven through, but his the rep of a wealthy nice beach town, I believe. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2021, 01:01:40 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 22, 2021, 12:52:40 PM

I’ve only driven through, but his the rep of a wealthy nice beach town, I believe.

Brunswick is inland, about ten miles or so, from the beach.  It's more industrial than beachy, that area has a lot of paper mills.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 22, 2021, 01:08:02 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 22, 2021, 01:01:40 PM

Brunswick is inland, about ten miles or so, from the beach.  It's more industrial than beachy, that area has a lot of paper mills.

Ahhh, I must be thinking of the area. On goodly maps, the town is next to water, but I guess not the populated part.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2021, 01:09:57 PM

The Marshes of Glynn
[color=var(--black)]Sidney Lanier (https://poets.org/poet/sidney-lanier) - 1842-1881[/font][/size][/color]

Glooms of the live-oaks, beautiful-braided and woven 
With intricate shades of the vines that myriad-cloven 
  Clamber the forks of the multiform boughs,-- 
                        Emerald twilights,-- 
                        Virginal shy lights, 
Wrought of the leaves to allure to the whisper of vows, 
When lovers pace timidly down through the green colonnades 
Of the dim sweet woods, of the dear dark woods, 
  Of the heavenly woods and glades, 
That run to the radiant marginal sand-beach within 
        The wide sea-marshes of Glynn;-- 
Beautiful glooms, soft dusks in the noon-day fire,-- 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 22, 2021, 01:10:31 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 22, 2021, 11:34:40 AM

I'm pretty sure, but couldn't prove it to them.

Someone did, I'm real sure of that.  Just couldn't pin it on them.

It happened as one bank was purchased by another bank.  During the merger.
After the merger I get my "new" account statement and PooF!

All kinds of stuff (ie - people) fall through cracks and get screwed during a transfer of ownership - happened with my apartment complex.  
The new ownership had no paperwork on me and assumed I was on a month-to-month thing.....didn't bother to you know - ask.  They were charging me all these fees and stuff and I show them my lease agreement then refund everything.  

Both the old ownership and new were to blame.  Just sloppiness all around.  When it comes to stuff like that, it's almost always incompetence and not malice.  But it doesn't help you (or me) either way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2021, 01:11:58 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 22, 2021, 01:08:02 PM

Ahhh, I must be thinking of the area. On goodly maps, the town is next to water, but I guess not the populated part.

You drive over causeways to get to the barrier islands.  These pass through "famous" mashes, of Glynn.

(https://i.imgur.com/3hn9Nax.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 22, 2021, 01:12:45 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 22, 2021, 12:50:00 PM

Cincydawg- do you know anything about Brunswick, GA? My brother just got a piece of property there under contract, going to head out there in a couple of weeks to see it.

I hope he's not downwind of the paper mill.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2021, 01:14:50 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 22, 2021, 01:10:31 PM

All kinds of stuff (ie - people) fall through cracks and get screwed during a transfer of ownership - happened with my apartment complex. 

When in grad school, I rented a place on the "wrong side of the tracks" for $135 per month one bedroom, adequate for me.  The place went belly up, and the rent didn't change for three years.  Somebody bought it finally and the rent jumped just as I was leaving, this was a time of high inflation, so having no increase in rent was a godsend for me, I was earning about $5 K a year.

My last month the rent had jumped in two months to $205 a month, which was still a good deal relatively speaking.

Now my HOA is nearly a grand a month.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2021, 01:15:54 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 22, 2021, 01:12:45 PM

I hope he's not downwind of the paper mill.

Everywhere is at one time or the other.

I was offered a job at one years back near Brunswick in Jasper, GA, the back side of nowhere.  I couldn't figure out schooling for the kids, Wayne County HS was not good at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 22, 2021, 01:20:07 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 22, 2021, 12:37:09 PM

I'll play SuperLotto and/or Megamillions when they get ridiculously huge, so maybe a couple of times per year, if that often.  It's worth the quick thrill for minimal investment.

And ya never know, eventually SOMEBODY wins it... :)

This is when my coworkers do it - when it gets above a certain threshold. 

I just look at any lottery ticket purchase as throwing your money into a trash can.  If they hit the big one, I'll be happy for them.  But I know that won't happen, so it doesn't matter.  There's nothing to fear there.

Sure, people play the lottery for the "what if" factor and dare to dream stuff.  But I think it's just another case of our brains not being able to really wrap around these insanely large numbers (and conversely - miniscule odds of winning).  

So what if I go in with 20 other people to increase the odds of winning?  It might as well be 20 shades of red in hopes of getting green.  It ain't happening.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 22, 2021, 01:35:25 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 22, 2021, 12:20:19 PM

actually craps is just about the only casino game where you can get true odds on a bet after the point has been established

Right, but you still have to actually play the point so you are paying something.

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 22, 2021, 12:20:19 PM

the 99% blackjack assumes various rules are in affect and you play perfect basic strategy course if you count the odds can swing in your favor

Exactly, there is a humongous difference between being Rainman and being a half drunk tourist distracted by cute waitresses.

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 22, 2021, 12:20:19 PM

never play roulette slots or keno they are sucker games

I know nothing of keno but I like roulette and I'll explain why. The odds for blackjack and craps are higher but you have to know what you are doing. With Roulette every bet has the exact same payout so you can't screw it up.

Additionally, my feeling is that Roulette is slower so even if you lose more as a percentage I think that you lose less per hour.

Example:
Say your drunken/distracted blackjack payout is 96% while the roulette payout is 94.7%. Ok, if you bet $1,000 at each then, on average, you walk away with:

• $960 in blackjack
• $947 in roulette

So blackjack is $13 better per $1,000 played but my experience is that blackjack is MUCH faster. If you figure one hand per minute at blackjack and one spin every three minutes at Roulette both on $15 tables then in an average hour you get:

• 60 blackjack hands costing $900 and returning $864, cost of $36/hour to play.
• 20 roulette spins costing $300 and returning $284.10, cost of $15.90/hour to play.

You are losing at both but losing slower at roulette.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2021, 01:52:26 PM

Vegas gambling for me gets boring, with few exceptions.  I'm unwilling to bet very much on a hand, etc., so I can't win enough to "matter" (unless I go for long odds, and even then).  Imagine I bet $10 on red five and it hits, yay, layout is 36 to one.  Nice, $360.

OK, but I gain and lose that much in a second in my investments.  And imagine I play this once and win the $360, what then?  I take the wife for a nice dinner maybe?  I would anyway.  Reality of course is most folks who win keep playing and probability kills them.

The exception is if the table is "alive" and folks are having fun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 22, 2021, 01:58:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 22, 2021, 01:20:07 PM

This is when my coworkers do it - when it gets above a certain threshold. 

I just look at any lottery ticket purchase as throwing your money into a trash can.  If they hit the big one, I'll be happy for them.  But I know that won't happen, so it doesn't matter.  There's nothing to fear there.

Sure, people play the lottery for the "what if" factor and dare to dream stuff.  But I think it's just another case of our brains not being able to really wrap around these insanely large numbers (and conversely - miniscule odds of winning). 

So what if I go in with 20 other people to increase the odds of winning?  It might as well be 20 shades of red in hopes of getting green.  It ain't happening.

Oh I certainly understand the probabilities involved.

I explain it to some people this way-- "If I choose the numbers 1,2,3,4,5,6, those are no more nor less likely to hit than a series that seems more sensible like 5,14,23,29,37,48."  People really don't understand how incredibly unlikely it is to pull ANY 6 specific numbers out of the hat.

Now, there is perhaps another reason not to play 1,2,3,4,5,6-- that series is extremely commonly selected.  So if it DOES hit, you're going to be sharing with a bunch of people.  Of course, you'd still be better off than not having won at all, so there's that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 22, 2021, 02:33:57 PM

I detest Vegas in general.

I could maybe get on with hanging in a sportsbook on a fall Saturday watching a bunch of games with some money on several of them... But only with a group like is on this board lol... 

Beyond that, I have absolutely no use for Vegas. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 22, 2021, 02:35:38 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on April 22, 2021, 01:35:25 PM

So blackjack is $13 better per $1,000 played but my experience is that blackjack is MUCH faster. If you figure one hand per minute at blackjack and one spin every three minutes at Roulette both on $15 tables then in an average hour you get:

• 60 blackjack hands costing $900 and returning $864, cost of $36/hour to play.
• 20 roulette spins costing $300 and returning $284.10, cost of $15.90/hour to play.

You are losing at both but losing slower at roulette.

card counting does not require one to be rainman

it only requires one to bet properly so as not to be identified as a counter

blackjack can be beat but requires lot of practice which few are willing to do

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 22, 2021, 02:37:01 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 22, 2021, 02:33:57 PM

I detest Vegas in general.

I could maybe get on with hanging in a sportsbook on a fall Saturday watching a bunch of games with some money on several of them... But only with a group like is on this board lol...

Beyond that, I have absolutely no use for Vegas.

I on the other hand love Vegas

I cant wait to get there and 3 days later cant wait to leave

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 22, 2021, 02:39:05 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 22, 2021, 01:58:26 PM

Oh I certainly understand the probabilities involved.

I explain it to some people this way-- "If I choose the numbers 1,2,3,4,5,6, those are no more nor less likely to hit than a series that seems more sensible like 5,14,23,29,37,48."  People really don't understand how incredibly unlikely it is to pull ANY 6 specific numbers out of the hat.

Now, there is perhaps another reason not to play 1,2,3,4,5,6-- that series is extremely commonly selected.  So if it DOES hit, you're going to be sharing with a bunch of people.  Of course, you'd still be better off than not having won at all, so there's that.

I didn't mean knowing the probabilites, but fully grasping the long odds of winning...above a certain point, it's just gobbly-gook.  A comp would be the distance of space from here to the furthest point we can see across the galaxy.  It's so vast, it' becomes jibberish.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 22, 2021, 02:39:09 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 22, 2021, 02:33:57 PM

I detest Vegas in general.

I could maybe get on with hanging in a sportsbook on a fall Saturday watching a bunch of games with some money on several of them... But only with a group like is on this board lol...

Beyond that, I have absolutely no use for Vegas.

I have a group of friends that go every year.  They tend to go the weekend before Thanksgiving, which is college football's "rivalry week #1."  Most of them travel a lot and use frequent flyer miles and such, but I don't really have that, so for me with flight and hotel and then some fun money, it's at least $1500.  They know I don't care about gambling table games, and so they always try to tell me "it's great just sitting in the sportsbook on Saturday, watching all the rivalry games."  My response is always, "Is it $1,500 great?"  And of course, it is not.  I've got three TVs set up in my game room in the house, with a pool table, full bar, and kegerator.  I don't really need a Vegas sportsbook.

Every year I tell them, if you changed the trip to  New Orleans, I'd be there in a heartbeat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 22, 2021, 02:46:48 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 22, 2021, 02:35:38 PM

card counting does not require one to be rainman

it only requires one to bet properly so as not to be identified as a counter

blackjack can be beat but requires lot of practice which few are willing to do

Yep. The problem with card counting is that to do it right, you need to vary your bets--raise them when the count is in your favor and bet minimum when it isn't. Well, that pattern is very easy for a casino to spot lol.

That's why the people who have had more luck "getting away with it", like the MIT Blackjack Team (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_Blackjack_Team), worked in groups. Someone would be sitting at the table betting minimum doing the counting, and have a way to signal advantageous counts to another player who would sit down and bet much larger. 

But eventually they would have players who were burned by being identified and linked to others as counters, and get barred from the casinos, and the team would have to keep recruiting new entrants. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2021, 03:00:27 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 22, 2021, 02:33:57 PM

I detest Vegas in general.

I could maybe get on with hanging in a sportsbook on a fall Saturday watching a bunch of games with some money on several of them... But only with a group like is on this board lol...

Beyond that, I have absolutely no use for Vegas.

Ed Zachery

it only takes a few clowns to ruin the atmosphere in a sportsbook

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 22, 2021, 03:05:50 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 22, 2021, 02:46:48 PM

Yep. The problem with card counting is that to do it right, you need to vary your bets--raise them when the count is in your favor and bet minimum when it isn't. Well, that pattern is very easy for a casino to spot lol.

That's why the people who have had more luck "getting away with it", like the MIT Blackjack Team (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_Blackjack_Team), worked in groups. Someone would be sitting at the table betting minimum doing the counting, and have a way to signal advantageous counts to another player who would sit down and bet much larger.

But eventually they would have players who were burned by being identified and linked to others as counters, and get barred from the casinos, and the team would have to keep recruiting new entrants.

Not if you dont get greedy
a 1 to 7 spread is easy to spot
but doubling a bet after a loss isnt
a smart player will sometimes increase their bet when the deck is poor
there are many things a good player can do to avoid being labeled a counter

I dont like team play as it gets easier to be spotted especially with the face id software all casinos use

A good player plays different casinos not staying long in any of them

again its a matter of not getting too greedy

you win your $200 and you walk

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2021, 03:30:18 PM

Is it possible to count into a six deck shoe?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2021, 03:47:51 PM

it's possible for some

not for me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 22, 2021, 03:53:21 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 22, 2021, 03:30:18 PM

Is it possible to count into a six deck shoe?

I don't know all the intricacies but the short answer is yes.

The somewhat longer answer is that, as @longhorn320 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=16) said:

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 22, 2021, 02:35:38 PM

card counting does not require one to be rainman

Non-Rainman humans don't actually remember each card because there are 312 cards in six decks and non-Rainman humans cannot remember that many. 

The basic premise instead is to keep a count of how far above or below the average value the exposed cards have been. The cards' values are (ignoring that aces can also be 11 because that is irrelevant for purpose of busting out):

• 10 for each king
• 10 for each queen
• 10 for each jack
• 10 for each 10
• 9 for each 9
• 8 for each 8
• 7 for each 7
• 6 for each 6
• 5 for each 5
• 4 for each 4
• 3 for each 3
• 2 for each 2
• 1 for each ace

A seven is the middle card. Roughly 46.15% are <7, 46.15 are >7, and 7.70% are 7's. Thus, if you have 14 or less you should have only a 46.15% chance of busting by taking a card. However, if you have 15 or more then you have at least a 53.85% chance of busting by taking a card.

IIRC, the fundamental basis of counting for non-Rainman is to start at zero and subtract one for each card under 7 and add one for each card over seven. When you get deep in the shoot you can use this knowledge to alter your bets based on knowing that there are either more large or more small cards left than usual.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 22, 2021, 03:53:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 22, 2021, 03:30:18 PM

Is it possible to count into a six deck shoe?

very possible

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 22, 2021, 04:01:57 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on April 22, 2021, 03:53:21 PM

I don't know all the intricacies but the short answer is yes.

The somewhat longer answer is that, as @longhorn320 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=16) said:Non-Rainman humans don't actually remember each card because there are 312 cards in six decks and non-Rainman humans cannot remember that many. 

The basic premise instead is to keep a count of how far above or below the average value the exposed cards have been. The cards' values are (ignoring that aces can also be 11 because that is irrelevant for purpose of busting out):

• 10 for each king
• 10 for each queen
• 10 for each jack
• 10 for each 10
• 9 for each 9
• 8 for each 8
• 7 for each 7
• 6 for each 6
• 5 for each 5
• 4 for each 4
• 3 for each 3
• 2 for each 2
• 1 for each ace

A seven is the middle card. Roughly 46.15% are <7, 46.15 are >7, and 7.70% are 7's. Thus, if you have 14 or less you should have only a 46.15% chance of busting by taking a card. However, if you have 15 or more then you have at least a 53.85% chance of busting by taking a card.

IIRC, the fundamental basis of counting for non-Rainman is to start at zero and subtract one for each card under 7 and add one for each card over seven. When you get deep in the shoot you can use this knowledge to alter your bets based on knowing that there are either more large or more small cards left than usual.

actually its the opposite

cards delt under 7 is a plus 1

cards delt over 9 is a negative 1

so if your current count is for example plus 3 then 3 more low cards have been dealt then 10s and Aces

when the deck is rich in tens its favors the player and the bet should be more

with multi deck shoes you have to divide the count by the estimated decks remaining undealt

so if your actual count is plus 4 and there are 2 decks undealt then the true count is actually 2

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2021, 04:04:15 PM

A while back, I was sitting at a bar in LV and a guy sat next to me in a suit.  He SAID he was a pit boss, and he didn't pay for his drink.  I think it was at Caesar's, he had just gotten off, we got to chatting and it came up.  I asked him about card counting and he told me it was something they didn't worry about, at all, because of the six deck shoe.  He claimed it was "Hollywood" (this was before Rainman came out).  

He said they really watching for folks changing cards, the dealers, stealing chips, simple stuff he said, that folks think they can get away with.  Of course he may have been BSing me, I was young at the time.

Counting cards is legal, but ... (freep.com) (https://www.freep.com/story/entertainment/nightlife/2016/04/05/mark-pilarski-casinos-counting-cards/82538428/)

4 Reasons Why Counting Cards is a Waste of Time (kiowacasino.com) (https://kiowacasino.com/4-reasons-why-counting-cards-is-a-waste-of-time/)

I kinda figure folks would get wealthy over time if it really worked and was a threat to casinos, and they wouldn't  build these humongous places in LV.  I gather it is more like work, as the article states, and you probably can make more money working.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 22, 2021, 04:04:34 PM

there all kinds of bet size management out there

the goal is bet more when the deck turns positive but dont up your bet too high else its a tell that your a counter

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 22, 2021, 04:09:42 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if they don't worry much about card counters.  There are so many other people that the house is making a ton of money on, card-counters are likely a miniscule threat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2021, 04:11:07 PM

Can you still make money counting cards in a casino? | by Rik Worth | Medium (https://rikcw.medium.com/can-you-still-make-money-counting-cards-in-a-casino-e878ab6cb207)

Former Chairman of the International Association of Casino Security and Crown Prosecution expert witness David Mills says: “In terms of a serious risk to game integrity, card counting is marginal at best by comparison to the other scams and techniques. On the plus side, it is also one of the very few ‘skills’ that can be legitimately deployed within the casino environment and thus has an enduring appeal and added interest for many players.”

Quote

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.8)]There has been far more lost by would-be card counters than they have ever won.[/color]

Casinos can still make money from people practising counting and love counters who think they’re much better than they actually are. On top of which small stakes and a lack of counters mean that a lot of casinos don’t care about counting unless actual cheating is taking place. David adds: “Even in the States, there has been far more lost by would-be card counters than they have ever won! In fact, even the grandfather of card counting, Prof Edwin Thorpe, wonders why it is still treated as such a big issue in casinos.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 22, 2021, 04:11:41 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 22, 2021, 04:04:15 PM

A while back, I was sitting at a bar in LV and a guy sat next to me in a suit.  He SAID he was a pit boss, and he didn't pay for his drink.  I think it was at Caesar's, he had just gotten off, we got to chatting and it came up.  I asked him about card counting and he told me it was something they didn't worry about, at all, because of the six deck shoe.  He claimed it was "Hollywood" (this was before Rainman came out). 

He said they really watching for folks changing cards, the dealers, stealing chips, simple stuff he said, that folks think they can get away with.  Of course he may have been BSing me, I was young at the time.

Counting cards is legal, but ... (freep.com) (https://www.freep.com/story/entertainment/nightlife/2016/04/05/mark-pilarski-casinos-counting-cards/82538428/)

4 Reasons Why Counting Cards is a Waste of Time (kiowacasino.com) (https://kiowacasino.com/4-reasons-why-counting-cards-is-a-waste-of-time/)

I kinda figure folks would get wealthy over time if it really worked and was a threat to casinos, and they wouldn't  build these humongous places in LV.  I gather it is more like work, as the article states, and you probably can make more money working.

the advantage a card counter can get is between 1 and 2 % so to benefit you need to count flawlessly and have at least 100 bets with the deck positive

if you are betting $25 chips averaging $50 dollars a hand you should be able to win between $100 and $200 an hour

again while all this is going on you have to keep your betting spread down 1 to 4 max and it doesnt hurt to be talking and joking around with the other players and or dealer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2021, 04:12:38 PM

David, who now works as a software engineer for Google says: “People stop playing because they lose interest, at least in my case — or when they get something more stable, or when they’re tired of grinding out a boring lifestyle. Counting really isn’t that fun. Counting is pretty much like operating as a robot, making bets according to math, and playing according to math. The swings are also something people don’t really like. One day there can be a positive swing and you go up $500 at a $5 table in an hour, and the next day you’re down that much in a mere hour and a half.”

In gambling slang “the grind” is how much cash a casino whittles away, however slowly, at players. For most normal people, the grind is the day in, day out chore of working hard, and though card counting might allow you to chip away slowly at the casino, and prove that perhaps the house doesn’t always win, like any full time job there’s really no avoiding the grind.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 22, 2021, 04:14:14 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 22, 2021, 04:11:07 PM

Can you still make money counting cards in a casino? | by Rik Worth | Medium (https://rikcw.medium.com/can-you-still-make-money-counting-cards-in-a-casino-e878ab6cb207)

Former Chairman of the International Association of Casino Security and Crown Prosecution expert witness David Mills says: “In terms of a serious risk to game integrity, card counting is marginal at best by comparison to the other scams and techniques. On the plus side, it is also one of the very few ‘skills’ that can be legitimately deployed within the casino environment and thus has an enduring appeal and added interest for many players.”Casinos can still make money from people practising counting and love counters who think they’re much better than they actually are. On top of which small stakes and a lack of counters mean that a lot of casinos don’t care about counting unless actual cheating is taking place. David adds: “Even in the States, there has been far more lost by would-be card counters than they have ever won! In fact, even the grandfather of card counting, Prof Edwin Thorpe, wonders why it is still treated as such a big issue in casinos.”

I agree with this 100%

If youre going to be a card counter you better know what youre doing meaning knowing the right card playing strategy and counting flawlessly

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2021, 04:24:02 PM

probably a lot like golf

better to be lucky than good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on April 22, 2021, 05:28:39 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2021, 12:52:16 PM

Yup.
One teacher at my school sends out numerous, obnoxious emails about gathering money together to buy powerball tickets.  Most people put $5 in, including the principal.

I abstain.

I do it with my company to insure that they don't win.  If I didn't play, they would win and I would leave to pick up the pieces when they all quit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on April 22, 2021, 05:42:20 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 22, 2021, 12:41:40 PM

Even if you lawyer up and win you lose unless they could be forced to cover your attorney fees.Like when the IRS fined me $600.00 for a 35 dollar share I didn't know I had - that is now wrth 17.00.But AIG gets bailed out and Cyber Security firms walk away with 1.8 billion on systems that failed.They get the gold mine and we get the shaft :character0029:

Must have not done anything about it. I have never in my career ever had a first time mistake by a client get stuck paying a penalty. More often than not I get it cancelled but always reduced. Now the interest on what is owed is another story.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 22, 2021, 11:53:47 PM

I applaud the effort

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/22/989728196/property-owner-calls-police-after-couple-tries-to-get-married-there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 23, 2021, 12:47:48 AM

some folks are just plain idiots

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 23, 2021, 08:57:47 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 22, 2021, 02:33:57 PM

I detest Vegas in general.

I could maybe get on with hanging in a sportsbook on a fall Saturday watching a bunch of games with some money on several of them... But only with a group like is on this board lol...

Beyond that, I have absolutely no use for Vegas.

Same-same never been to vegas though but that's how I would do it.Sports wagering the odds are best - it's the vig that gets pissy.Saw a few pages back of Black Jack discussion.Years ago I watched the Docu - "Bringing Down the House" (based on the book) of the M.I.T Black Jack team.The professor that compiled and directed those teams based his formula on a UCLAs Math Professor formula findings from the '60s,worth the watch or the read.

 There was also a series I think it was Breaking Vegas or sum such about all sorts of cheaters.One was absolutely brilliant some dude took casino coins to a metalurgist who was able to somehow duplicate tokens for the machines.He used the exact composite metal make up and used computers to duplicate the exact outline of the coins and had the total down to the weight also.But every night money and coins are counted out and the House Dicks found something interesting - they were ending up with more casino coins than they had inventoried.For a couple of months this guy won because after payouts he had no investment sans the cost of creating the coins.And the casino(s) count were still showing more coins  than previously inventoried

Eventually they caught the guy with cameras.He was playing a 50.00 coin machine - when one of his coins got hung up he just walked away instead of flagging down help.That tipped his hand,the average gambler would want to be reimbursed.There were all sorts of clever stories like that.I miss the old HISTORY Channel

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 23, 2021, 09:18:17 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on April 22, 2021, 05:42:20 PM

Must have not done anything about it. I have never in my career ever had a first time mistake by a client get stuck paying a penalty. More often than not I get it cancelled but always reduced. Now the interest on what is owed is another story.

 after going round and round with an IRS rep on the phone,they stuck to their guns I owed them.And since it was my oversight - though an honest one,prolly left w/o recourse.Since they put Big Al away I'm sure they'd have no problem calling my bluff

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 23, 2021, 09:45:16 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 23, 2021, 08:57:47 AM

Same-same never been to vegas though but that's how I would do it.Sports wagering the odds are best - it's the vig that gets pissy.Saw a few pages back of Black Jack discussion.

Yeah, sports betting is just like poker -- a skill game with a high variance due to inherent luck. 

It's also like poker in that the house doesn't care who wins. In sports betting the goal is simply to have 50/50 betting on each side of a wager, and in poker it's just to have action going. Sports betting it's the vig where the house makes its money, poker it's the rake. 

The problem with sports betting, though, is that you can't make money with a 1-2% advantage, because you need to win 55%+ of your bets to beat the vig. Which means the skill isn't in betting every game and hoping that you can win >55%, it's in identifying where the spread or O/U is significantly wrong and that you can figure that out with >55% certainty. 

Way back in 2006 I spent an entire season tracking picks on my old blog. I picked every Big Ten game--minus Purdue because I couldn't separate emotions--which is to say I *picked* Purdue but didn't count it to my season stats because I knew I couldn't be objective... I also would look around at the national scene and pick games where I thought there was something particularly interesting about the matchup or the line. 

Over the course of a season, I would pick 8-10 games per week, and I finished the year with a 62.5% record against the spread. Which I was, and am, pretty proud of.

The problem was that when I did the math, if I had been betting $100/game, over 3+ months of work my entire winnings for the year would have been ~$1K. Based on the number of hours of analysis, the risk, etc, I thought to myself "this is a grind--it's just not worth it."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 23, 2021, 10:15:41 AM

Ya I used every measurable out there to beat the spread consistently even contrarian play - going against the public.It's still a rare breed of cat that can turn a profit - though it does happen.I use to look up % of day games/nite games won/lost,home/away,turf/grass,common opponents,injuries,you name it - just a grind and facting in that pay out - it has to be an ardent hobby - which it was for me for about 10-11 seasons

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 23, 2021, 10:29:20 AM

I need to bone up on my sports gambling theory. Never got into it before, but I also didn't live near a Nevada resort town with several mega-casinos. 

I did watch a you tube video about how to rig the system for comped rooms, and it worked. I get 4 free nights every month. 

I don't do any gambling at all when I am there though, beyond the bare minimum that it takes in order to keep the freebies flowing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2021, 11:01:25 AM

A tactic I've done "for fun" is bet every dog in bowl season.  It seems to work.  The teams are generally closer in talent than The Public tends to think, and Name Teams get a boost which is not merited, usually.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 23, 2021, 11:03:34 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 23, 2021, 11:01:25 AM

A tactic I've done "for fun" is bet every dog in bowl season.  It seems to work.  The teams are generally closer in talent than The Public tends to think, and Name Teams get a boost which is not merited, usually.

No no, that's not it at all.  It's always a case of the name team just not wanting to be there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2021, 11:10:47 AM

the SEC is loaded with "name" teams

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 23, 2021, 11:11:33 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 23, 2021, 11:03:34 AM

No no, that's not it at all.  It's always a case of the name team just not wanting to be there.

especially if they are playing Texas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 23, 2021, 11:12:36 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 23, 2021, 11:11:33 AM

especially if they are playing Texas

Yup.  Texas isn't a name team, so there's no reason anyone would ever get more "UP" to play the Horns than, say... Duke or Wake Forest.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2021, 11:13:11 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 23, 2021, 11:11:33 AM

especially if they are playing Texas

or Oklahomo

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 23, 2021, 11:16:08 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 23, 2021, 11:13:11 AM

or Oklahomo

Nah, teams beat the okies in bowl games all the time.  Losing bowl games is kinda their thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2021, 11:23:26 AM

unless they're taking on Bama

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2021, 11:49:02 AM

I figure the "betting public" often sides with Name Teams in bowl season.  That sways the odds, though I figure the Smart Guys balance that out to advantage.

The odds really are pretty good.  

But betting against the masses is often a good idea.

The SEC does have a lot of near Blue Blood teams historically, which is one reason they get some "consideration" in polling.

LSU 
Auburn
UGA
Florida
Tennessee (I know they are down)

Arkansas and Missouri have some decent history.  If they start out say 7-1, they get consideration also.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 23, 2021, 11:53:19 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 23, 2021, 11:49:02 AM

But betting against the masses is often a good idea.

I have a former coworker who was a bookie on the side, and we were talking about this.

He said that when you see a line that is getting bet heavily enough one direction that it's moving the line, bet the opposite way. The masses think they're smarter than the oddsmakers, and it's usually not the case. 

I'd love to see if there is actually any truth to that, though. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 23, 2021, 11:55:06 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 23, 2021, 11:53:19 AM

I have a former coworker who was a bookie on the side, and we were talking about this.

He said that when you see a line that is getting bet heavily enough one direction that it's moving the line, bet the opposite way. The masses think they're smarter than the oddsmakers, and it's usually not the case.

I'd love to see if there is actually any truth to that, though.

Sounds like something bookies say to get the betting public to place more bets. ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 23, 2021, 11:55:18 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 23, 2021, 09:45:16 AM

Yeah, sports betting is just like poker -- a skill game with a high variance due to inherent luck.

It's also like poker in that the house doesn't care who wins. In sports betting the goal is simply to have 50/50 betting on each side of a wager, and in poker it's just to have action going. Sports betting it's the vig where the house makes its money, poker it's the rake.

The problem with sports betting, though, is that you can't make money with a 1-2% advantage, because you need to win 55%+ of your bets to beat the vig. Which means the skill isn't in betting every game and hoping that you can win >55%, it's in identifying where the spread or O/U is significantly wrong and that you can figure that out with >55% certainty.

Way back in 2006 I spent an entire season tracking picks on my old blog. I picked every Big Ten game--minus Purdue because I couldn't separate emotions--which is to say I *picked* Purdue but didn't count it to my season stats because I knew I couldn't be objective... I also would look around at the national scene and pick games where I thought there was something particularly interesting about the matchup or the line.

Over the course of a season, I would pick 8-10 games per week, and I finished the year with a 62.5% record against the spread. Which I was, and am, pretty proud of.

The problem was that when I did the math, if I had been betting $100/game, over 3+ months of work my entire winnings for the year would have been ~$1K. Based on the number of hours of analysis, the risk, etc, I thought to myself "this is a grind--it's just not worth it."

I had the same realization in reverse during my first year at Ohio State. A couple of wannabe gangsters shared a room down the hall from me and, fancying themselves to be Henry Hill they were booking bets. From them I learned how it worked and that the one requisite to being a bookie was to have a bigger bookie that you could pass your potential losers onto.

Big sports books don't pass their losers on, they are simply big enough to absorb a loss now and then but if you are a bookie on a campus you need a bigger bookie so that if all of your betters take the local school in a game you don't lose your a$$ if they win.

These guys thought they could absorb their losses but the couldn't and the had to drop out of school to get jobs because of all the money they lost.

Anyway, once I had the business figured out I contemplated getting into it. The vig is usually 10% but it is effectively only charged to the losers so the bookie theoretically makes 5% of the total bet through him. Example:

Suppose @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) bets $100 on Purdue+11.5 through me and @Brutus Buckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=31) bets $100 on tOSU-11.5 through me. No matter what happens one will win and one will lose so I will owe $100 to the winner and be owed $110 by the loser so I'll make $10 or 5% of the $200 that I booked. I didn't get involved because I immediately recognized a number of problems for the bookie:

• Credit/collections: Suppose I have 10 people bet $100 each on PU and another 10 bet $100 each on tOSU. I'll owe $1,000 to the 10 winners and be owed $1,100 by the 10 losers so I'll make $100 but only if everyone pays me. If one of the losers skips town I'll collect $990 from the other losers, pay $1,000 to the winners, and be out $10. This is why the mob has to rough people up.
• Unbalanced bets: In the above examples I had equal bets so I made money either way but instead if I have 15 people bet $100 each on tOSU and only five bet $100 each on PU then I have a problem. If PU covers I get $1,650 from the 15 losers and owe $500 to the five winners so I'm up $1,150 but if tOSU covers I get $550 from the five losers and owe $1,500 to the 15 winners so I'm out $950. In order to cover this I have to call my bigger bookie and bet between $950 and $1,045 on tOSU. That severely reduces my profit margin because the unbalanced bets effectively don't count towards that 5% that I would make on bets placed through me.
• Volume: Even with no collections problems and perfectly balanced bets the bookie still only makes 5% of the total bet through him. To make $500 a week you need $10,000 a week in 100% collectible and perfectly balanced bets. At $50-$100 per bet/gambler that is 100-200 gamblers. That strikes me as an immense amount of effort and risk to make $500 a week.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2021, 11:59:57 AM

for Badge..............


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-0/p526x296/175326036_3885053188238067_8624228836736725192_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=rVrHpX2eA3YAX86YfXg&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=8c048d30c44224c825fa9fb4f13da233&oe=60A9F165)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 23, 2021, 12:08:54 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 23, 2021, 11:53:19 AM

I have a former coworker who was a bookie on the side, and we were talking about this.

He said that when you see a line that is getting bet heavily enough one direction that it's moving the line, bet the opposite way. The masses think they're smarter than the oddsmakers, and it's usually not the case.

I'd love to see if there is actually any truth to that, though.

the goal of the bookie is to establish a line that will go 50/50 in betting not to actually forecast the outcome of a game

Thats why I like the initial line more then later lines

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2021, 12:10:24 PM

I get the impression that the various "schemes" to "Beat the Odds" are WORK, for relatively little payout.

If something were simple and easy, the "market" would already have reacted to it and compensated accordingly.  It reminds me of GRQ schemes in the stock market, based off some analytic gizmo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 23, 2021, 12:11:36 PM

One experience with sports betting:

I was at tOSU when the first Tyson/Holyfield fight happened (not the ear, that was Tyson/HolyfieldII). Tyson was a huge favorite so Holyfield was a 10:1 underdog. 

If you remember the era, Tyson had won a bunch of fights with early knockouts and fans were getting angry that they paid $100 PPV for the fight and ended up seeing only a round or two. I remember that in one case the PPV price ended up being $1/second. 

Faced with those complaints the PPV for this fight had a built in maximum per round so that buyers would get a discount if the fight ended quickly. 

I'm naturally a cynic so when I saw that I figured the Tyson would lose because people were getting bored with him always dominating and the sport (aka Don King) needed variety to generate interest. Consequently, I scrounged up $100 and had my roommate call his bookie to place a $100 bet on Holyfield at 10:1. 

My roommate's bookie refused the bet. I understand why. Basically nobody bets $100 to win $10 in that situation so he had no balancing bets and didn't want to have to pay me a grand if Holyfield won, which he did by TKO in the 11th round.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2021, 12:14:20 PM

small time Bookie

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 23, 2021, 12:17:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 23, 2021, 12:10:24 PM

I get the impression that the various "schemes" to "Beat the Odds" are WORK, for relatively little payout.

If something were simple and easy, the "market" would already have reacted to it and compensated accordingly.  It reminds me of GRQ schemes in the stock market, based off some analytic gizmo.

I do a lot of swing trading which means buying a stock and hopefully when the price goes up to a certain point 5% or 10% selling

the best formula Ive found is one which utilizes trading volume

when a stocks trading volume all of a sudden jumps something is going on so I center on those stocks and if a follow through goal is hit they become prime candidates for purchase

coarse there are several other things that need to be present but volume is a big tell

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 23, 2021, 12:28:57 PM

More on being a cynic:

Upthread I mentioned that I like roulette when I'm in a casino because of the time issue. I said this in response to @longhorn320 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=16) 's comment.

There is another reason, first some background:

There are 38 spaces on a roulette wheel and 38 individual numbers you can bet:

• 0 and 00 are green
• 1-36 are half red and half black

All payouts are set such that it would be "fair" (ie, the house would make nothing) if there were 36 rather than 38 spots. 

If 38 betters each bet $10 on a single number with no overlap then there will be $380 on the table. After each spin the casino will give $360 to the one winner and pocket $20.

In addition to the individual numbers you can also bet other things such as:

• Black or Red: pays 1:1
• Even or odd: pays 1:1
• First, second, or third 12 (1-12, 13-24, 25-36): pays 2:1
• Etc

The thing I noticed when I first encountered this game was that the casino makes most of their money when the wheel lands on one of the green spots. It doesn't matter for the individual numbers because you can bet green but it matters for the other bets, here is why:

Suppose that @longhorn320 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=16) and I are betting red and black respectively in equal amounts. When red hits they give my money to him.  When black hits they give his money to me. They keep both of our money when green hits. It is the same basic concept for the other bets.

Being a cynic I've always suspected that if the casino could make the green spaces an imperceptible millimeter or two wider, they would. Thus, I always bet green and it's usually worked pretty well for me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 23, 2021, 12:41:27 PM

See they are changing college football OT. 1st OT is the same, 2nd OT you must go for 2, after that the teams alternate 2 point conversions plays. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2021, 12:52:35 PM

I want to be brave one year and just bet the same amount on games I'm most certain about, but the swings scare me.  I have confidence I'd come out well ahead of 55% threshold easily.  But the bad runs would be too stressful.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2021, 12:53:37 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 23, 2021, 11:59:57 AM

for Badge..............


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-0/p526x296/175326036_3885053188238067_8624228836736725192_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=rVrHpX2eA3YAX86YfXg&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=8c048d30c44224c825fa9fb4f13da233&oe=60A9F165)

This is a good'n.  Let's have them running around with AR 15s.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2021, 12:54:07 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 23, 2021, 12:47:48 AM

some folks are just plain idiots

The best part is that the irony is lost on you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2021, 01:16:46 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2021, 12:53:37 PM

This is a good'n.  Let's have them running around with AR 15s. 

that's the point
they are NOT using ARs, yet many people are dying of gunshot wounds
it's not the AR
it's the people

the hand guns that are killing people are not legal

making ARs illegal will change nothing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 23, 2021, 01:24:23 PM

why is it when a cop has to shoot someone it was a person who did it

but when there is a mass killing the gun was at fault

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 23, 2021, 01:29:05 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2021, 12:54:07 PM

The best part is that the irony is lost on you.

now if you cant play nice you will be put on a time out

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2021, 01:31:27 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 23, 2021, 01:16:46 PM

that's the point
they are NOT using ARs, yet many people are dying of gunshot wounds
it's not the AR
it's the people

the hand guns that are killing people are not legal

making ARs illegal will change nothing

I'm going to give you credit and assume you realize how silly this is.  
My comment was hey, let's give them guns with 5x the capacity and a faster firing rate.  And you think it means the opposite.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2021, 01:32:51 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 23, 2021, 01:24:23 PM

why is it when a cop has to shoot someone it was a person who did it

but when there is a mass killing the gun was at fault

It's not either/or.

Let's see who will answer this question honestly:  Why do you need a gun besides to hunt or home defense?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 23, 2021, 01:33:35 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 23, 2021, 12:08:54 PM

the goal of the bookie is to establish a line that will go 50/50 in betting not to actually forecast the outcome of a game

Thats why I like the initial line more then later lines

While that is true, there is also a tendency for them to set the line in many sporting events where they think the most likely outcome of the game would land. There's a reason they're experts in their field. Now, obviously there are things they take into account... More popular or big-market teams will tend to have more bets on their side, etc, so they may shade the line slightly in those cases to try to entice a more 50/50 split. 

So when an oddsmaker in Vegas sets the line on an NFL game at, say, -8 1/2, and suddenly 90% of the bets are coming in for the underdog, it gets interest. And the line moves. 

And then you have to ask yourself, who is more likely to be right? The oddsmaker, or the masses? The idea is that the oddsmaker is more likely to be right because they're the expert who does this all day, every day. 

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on April 23, 2021, 12:28:57 PM

Being a cynic I've always suspected that if the casino could make the green spaces an imperceptible millimeter or two wider, they would. Thus, I always bet green and it's usually worked pretty well for me.

I'm pretty sure the Nevada Gaming Commission would have an issue with that. Trust me. I've sold products to gaming companies. Their regulatory requirements are up there with medical devices. Quite literally they're terrified of screwing up and having the Nevada Gaming Commission on their backs. Now--in other markets, maybe it's more lax. But not in Vegas. 

And there is way too much reputational risk for a casino. They don't want to be caught cheating gamblers, because there are plenty of other casinos you can go to. 

Their goal isn't to cheat you as a bettor... Their goal is to get as many bets as they can because the advantage they have, writ large, is more than enough to fund them and then some. 

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2021, 12:52:35 PM

I want to be brave one year and just bet the same amount on games I'm most certain about, but the swings scare me.  I have confidence I'd come out well ahead of 55% threshold easily.  But the bad runs would be too stressful.

Yep. Let's say you are making 10 bets a week, at $110 each (to make the numbers easier). So each week you need $1100.

Let's assume it's week 1 of the season.

• If you break even, picking 5 right, you've won $500 but you've lost $550. You now only have $1050 available, so you need to come up with an additional $50 just to be able to make 10 bets in week 2.  
• If you only win 4 games, you've won $400 but you've lost $660. So you're down from $1100 to $840. Now you need to come up with an additional $260 to make 10 bets in week 2.
• If you only win 3 games, you've won $300 but lost $770. You're now down from $1100 to $630. You need an additional $470 to make 10 bets in week 2. 

Hence if you want to bet $1100 per week, you really need to start with at least $2-3K liquid to weather the bad weeks. And if you do as I did and hit at a 62.5% rate, your takeaway from those bets is only $1K at the end of the season.

That's not BAD, by any stretch. But when a couple bad weeks in a row could decimate your bankroll, it's certainly not a low-risk investment... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2021, 01:35:23 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2021, 01:32:51 PM

It's not either/or.

Let's see who will answer this question honestly:  Why do you need a gun besides to hunt or home defense? 

You don't need one. If you choose to have one (or more) for hunting and home defense, have at it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 23, 2021, 01:39:01 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2021, 01:32:51 PM

It's not either/or.

Let's see who will answer this question honestly:  Why do you need a gun besides to hunt or home defense? 

Im not sure I follow

what is your point

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 23, 2021, 01:43:49 PM

The casinos are all rigged to clean you out if you don't know when to quit, and most people don't know when to quit. Everyone says that they won money, but they are all lying. So my approach is that if you can walk out with more money than you walk in with, even if it is just a couple of dollars, then you did better than like 99% of the people that walked in there that day. So I will play a little, and then as soon as I hit anything, and I mean ANYTHING, that puts me over, I am cashing out right then and there. So I rarely do more than a few minutes of gambling, but I usually walk out with a few bucks more than I walked in with.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2021, 01:51:42 PM

2 responses, 2 non-answers.  Thank you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2021, 01:53:08 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2021, 01:31:27 PM

I'm going to give you credit and assume you realize how silly this is. 
My comment was hey, let's give them guns with 5x the capacity and a faster firing rate.  And you think it means the opposite.

your comment?  Silly comment.

I was assuming you were being sarcastic

if you were serious, well I'd rather not go there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 23, 2021, 01:53:41 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2021, 01:51:42 PM

2 responses, 2 non-answers.  Thank you.

No point?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2021, 01:54:33 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2021, 01:32:51 PM

It's not either/or.

Let's see who will answer this question honestly:  Why do you need a gun besides to hunt or home defense? 

I'll answer honestly.

I don't need a gun for any other reason than to hunt or protect myself.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2021, 01:54:46 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 23, 2021, 01:53:41 PM

No point?

No need.  You made it for me.  I already thanked you both.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2021, 01:55:06 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 23, 2021, 01:54:33 PM

I'll answer honestly.

I don't need a gun for any other reason than to hunt or protect myself.

Then you're not the problem.  Thank you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2021, 01:56:20 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 23, 2021, 01:53:08 PM

your comment?  Silly comment.

I was assuming you were being sarcastic

if you were serious, well I'd rather not go there.

I'm saying go there, in your head.  Why not?  The Rs act like everything else is a slippery slope, why isn't this?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 23, 2021, 01:57:28 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2021, 01:54:46 PM

No need.  You made it for me.  I already thanked you both.

why do you even bother posting

do you not want a discussion or do you just want to show a smug attitude

if you want a discussion tell us your point if not feel free to continue into never never land

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2021, 01:59:25 PM

I asked a question you wouldn't answer and I'm in the wrong.  You're fun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 23, 2021, 02:04:57 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2021, 01:59:25 PM

I asked a question you wouldn't answer and I'm in the wrong.  You're fun.

nope youre not in the wrong

but you feel free to make comments on what others say but wont tell us what your point is

to me thats not communication at all

why are you so afraid to tell us your beliefs 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 23, 2021, 02:19:34 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2021, 01:55:06 PM

Then you're not the problem.  Thank you.

Would FF be the problem if he wanted an AR-15 to hunt or protect himself?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2021, 02:54:17 PM

Is someone gonna come and try to take this away from me?

(https://i.imgur.com/1ErxwZW.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 23, 2021, 02:59:00 PM

Only if they replace it with something better, like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/hv9Ew7C.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 23, 2021, 03:05:02 PM

answer truthfully what do you need a knife for besides

hunting or cutting vegetables

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 23, 2021, 03:09:32 PM

Ehh. I'm happy with what I already have:

(https://i.imgur.com/VpjSHqE.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2021, 03:10:05 PM

politicians always wanting to pass some legislation to resolve problems

making new rules doesn't resolve anything

I hear we have a new law......... it's now against the law to hate asian folks

I kinda always figured it wasn't good to hate anyone for their race or skin color, but I guess I was wrong, cause now we have a law.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2021, 03:11:13 PM

(https://www.vmcdn.ca/f/files/sudbury/images/LifestyleImages/081216_crocodile_dundee.jpg;w=660)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2021, 03:11:31 PM

I love my Global knife collection. Not terribly expensive, and great performance.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 23, 2021, 03:12:21 PM

speaking of guns/knives....

Apparently LeChina/LeBitch/LeVagina/LeWoman James thinks it's A-OK to attack another human being with a knife right in front of a police officer and the officer is supposed to just stand there and watch and do nothing.

Is there a bigger bitch/hypocrite/moron in the history of sports than LeBitch? Cannot stand that f**king moron and all the sycophants who suck his balls and have the unmitigated gall, the audacity-  to put that woman in the same sentence as Jordan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2021, 03:13:20 PM

he's got a bigger mouth than Jordan

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 23, 2021, 03:13:56 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 23, 2021, 03:13:20 PM

he's got a bigger mouth than Jordan

he's soft as charmin. Jordan was a killer on that court. LeBitch is a sissy bitch. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 23, 2021, 03:14:22 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 23, 2021, 03:09:32 PM

Ehh. I'm happy with what I already have:

I'm just messing around.  I only have a decent set of really old Henkels, I'm not much of a knife snob.

The best, most used, and cheapest knife I own, is my brisket/roast slicer from Ace Mart.

(https://i.imgur.com/c1X0xGQ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 23, 2021, 03:17:38 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 23, 2021, 03:12:21 PM

speaking of guns/knives....

Apparently LeChina/LeBitch/LeVagina/LeWoman James thinks it's A-OK to attack another human being with a knife right in front of a police officer and the officer is supposed to just stand there and watch and do nothing.

Is there a bigger bitch/hypocrite/moron in the history of sports than LeBitch? Cannot stand that f**king moron and all the sycophants who suck his balls and have the unmitigated gall, the audacity-  to put that woman in the same sentence as Jordan.

They often speak of the million dollar athlete with a ten cent head.

Lebron might be the first billion dollar athlete with a one cent head.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 23, 2021, 03:18:25 PM

The bulk of my knife "collection" is Victorinox with the fibrox handles. Tremendous value, holds an edge really well, and if something happened to one of them, I wouldn't lose any sleep.

The prized knife is the Tanaka Sekiso 270mm Gyuto in Blue #2 carbon steel (the one I pictured). Gift from my wife for Christmas a few years ago. It's just gorgeous, but most importantly it's easy to sharpen and holds its edge better than anything I've ever used. And the thing just glides through anything you want to cut. It's not cheap, but I think it's worth every dollar she spent ;-) 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 23, 2021, 03:22:15 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 23, 2021, 03:17:38 PM

They often speak of the million dollar athlete with a ten cent head.

Lebron might be the first billion dollar athlete with a one cent head.

This absolutely drives me crazy. Why is everyone so obsessed with what athletes or celebrities think? For the most part, vast majority of them are complete and utter uneducated morons. People actually think that just because someone can act or sing or dunk a basketball- that their opinion means anything? Makes no sense to me. F**ked up celebrity hero worship culture/society we live in- when in reality most of those people are f**king idiots that just know how to do one thing at a high level- and many times it's just genetic (sports) or they are complete psychopaths (actors).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2021, 03:30:55 PM

If "we" ignored what they say, well ....

I'm interested in a good general purpose knife, I looked at some of the Japanese offerings but didn't buy.  I have a sort of midrange butcher block set that are OK, kids have it to me a while back.  My main blade has to be sharpened almost daily if I'm to cut something more precisely.

An SEM of a sharp versus dull blade is fascinating. n The bottom is a razor after three passes on the strop.

(https://i.imgur.com/1BWegsX.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/S4IIft7.png)

The Pasted Strop – part 3 – scienceofsharp (https://scienceofsharp.com/2015/03/31/the-pasted-strop-part-3/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2021, 03:31:10 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 23, 2021, 02:19:34 PM

Would FF be the problem if he wanted an AR-15 to hunt or protect himself?

Not if an AR 15 is an appropriate gun for such things.  I'm not part of the crowd treating a particular gun as the boogeyman.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2021, 03:31:59 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 23, 2021, 03:22:15 PM

This absolutely drives me crazy. Why is everyone so obsessed with what athletes or celebrities think? 

We need our own royal family to obsess over, apparently.  THe fault isn't with the stars, but in ourselves.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2021, 03:35:50 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2021, 02:54:17 PM

Is someone gonna come and try to take this away from me?

(https://i.imgur.com/1ErxwZW.jpg)

Fear no. 1938283294029238 that has never remotely happened, ever never ever.  I call that an irrational fear.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2021, 03:36:31 PM

I once was a bit into target shooting (pistol), which is something different from hunting and self defense obviously.  I doubt any real target shooters are dangerous.

The firearms often are bolt action single shot specialized items.

The vast majority of gun crimes are committed with pistols for obvious reasons.  Folks focus on certain rifles instead.

The Ruger Mini-14 is a nice example of a gun that looks "OK" but actually is  the equivalent of the dreaded assault rifle in terms of firing rate, lethality of the round itself, magazine size, you name it, but it "looks" less dangerous.  It isn't.


(https://i.imgur.com/iFHCi5K.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 23, 2021, 03:42:52 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 23, 2021, 03:05:02 PM

answer truthfully what do you need a knife for besides

hunting or cutting vegetables

Filleting fish and whittling

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2021, 03:43:44 PM

Where's the whittling thread?!?   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 23, 2021, 03:49:12 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 23, 2021, 03:10:05 PM

politicians always wanting to pass some legislation to resolve problems

making new rules doesn't resolve anything

I hear we have a new law......... it's now against the law to hate asian folks

Based on the amount of Chinese/Asian Restuarants my guess is they are pretty popular.Tell it to people like Ahmad Al Aliwi Alissa, a 21-year-old man from a Denver suburb, was charged with the killing of 10 people at a grocery store in Colorado.Maybe they should just execute mass murders on the spot

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2021, 03:49:42 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2021, 03:43:44 PM

Where's the whittling thread?!? 

You're probably in it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 23, 2021, 03:51:13 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 23, 2021, 03:42:52 PM

Filleting fish and whittling

then you are obviously part of the problem

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 23, 2021, 03:53:12 PM

My grandpa loved to whittle on the front porch, and I used to whittle with him.  It was like something out of a 50s TV show.  Good times.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2021, 03:53:45 PM

Can/will "we" ever get past the idea that guns don't pull their own triggers?  

Should pressure cookers be banned because they can be used to make bombs?

(https://i.imgur.com/DbHpU9R.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 23, 2021, 03:57:07 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 23, 2021, 03:51:13 PM

then you are obviously part of the problem

Nope jesus liked fisherman,Simon,Andrew,James and John were all fisherman  - you're wrong.Course I guess you actually have to catch fish to be considered one - I'm working on that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 23, 2021, 03:59:23 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2021, 03:53:45 PM

 

Should pressure cookers be banned because they can be used to make bombs?

Don't give them anymore ideas. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2021, 04:59:02 PM

Lefties or bombers?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 23, 2021, 05:16:10 PM

Same difference

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 23, 2021, 05:31:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 23, 2021, 03:30:55 PM

I'm interested in a good general purpose knife, I looked at some of the Japanese offerings but didn't buy.  I have a sort of midrange butcher block set that are OK, kids have it to me a while back.  My main blade has to be sharpened almost daily if I'm to cut something more precisely.

Truth is that any knife, of any quality, will cut just fine. Almost any knife, even cheap ones, will take an edge. But as you find, it just might need to be sharpened damn near constantly to hold an edge if it's crappy steel. 

I really do like the Victorinox. Yeah, they don't look impressive in a knife block. But they're amazingly good for the price--better than a lot of knives 2-3x as expensive. I also like that they have more of a Japanese edge (narrow angle) compared to a German edge. Both options are great, of course, but I just prefer the Japanese style. 

My advice to anyone re: knives:

• Pay for quality. That doesn't mean "buy the most expensive knife"--as I've said I believe the Victorinox to be quality, but a better knife will hold its edge longer and require sharpening less frequently. That will improve your enjoyment of the knife, especially since most of us [myself included] get lazy about sharpening.
• Pre-made knife block sets are usually a bad deal. Usually they include knives you don't need and they sacrifice quality for quantity. Since you already have a block, I'd look at replacing individual knives--your main used knives--with new individual knife sets rather than getting a new knife set.
• I recommend larger knives for your main workhorse. I think a lot of people are intimidated by anything larger than an 8" chef's knife--and quite a few people are intimidated by those. My primary Victorinox is 10" and the Gyuto is almost 11". It's actually a lot easier to cut many things if you can get the blade above what you're cutting while the tip of the knife still rests on the board. You can always buy a smaller knife for more delicate tasks (we also have an 8" chef's knife and 7" santoku), but a lot of jobs are easier with 10" than 8". 
• Knives need to be sharpened regularly, and a honing steel is NOT sharpening. Most home cooks buy a set of knives and will have them for a decade without sharpening them. I'm a nerd, so I learned to sharpen my knives myself with a whetstone. But for people who don't want to do that, they can take their knives to be sharpened for a few dollars per knife. Do that every 6 months with your main knives and you'll be a lot happier...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 23, 2021, 05:34:19 PM

I see you guys have played knifey spooney before.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 23, 2021, 06:23:51 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 23, 2021, 03:14:22 PM

I'm just messing around.  I only have a decent set of really old Henkels, I'm not much of a knife snob.

The best, most used, and cheapest knife I own, is my brisket/roast slicer from Ace Mart.

(https://i.imgur.com/c1X0xGQ.png)

This reminds me that my hands have several marks from serrated bread knives. Never fun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 23, 2021, 07:04:10 PM

You can get roast slicers that aren't scalloped, but the wavy edge helps quite a bit when cutting through dense, crusty bark on a BBQ brisket. 

And if your BBQ brisket doesn't have dense, crusty bark, then you're doing it wrong. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 23, 2021, 07:06:30 PM

The question is where I can get a good serrated slicer with left-handed serration?

For now I just use a 12" slicer, which works fine. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 23, 2021, 07:46:50 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 23, 2021, 07:04:10 PM

You can get roast slicers that aren't scalloped, but the wavy edge helps quite a bit when cutting through dense, crusty bark on a BBQ brisket.

And if your BBQ brisket doesn't have dense, crusty bark, then you're doing it wrong. :)

This kills me, because the only place that does really good brisket in my town isn’t open often, and the next time it’s open I will not be in town.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 23, 2021, 08:02:00 PM

There was a BBQ stand at the county fair, and I bought some just because I hadn't had good BBQ in over a year. 

WOO WEE. Was it bad. It was a sampler with ribs, brisket and pulled pork, and all of it was cold. 

It was like they pulled it out of the fridge and tried to warm it up, but they were in a hurry and they didn't warm it up nearly enough. 

I wound up throwing like half of it in the garbage. 

Best $20 I ever spent. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 23, 2021, 08:38:05 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 23, 2021, 07:46:50 PM

This kills me, because the only place that does really good brisket in my town isn’t open often, and the next time it’s open I will not be in town.

Why isn't there another place in town that does really good brisket?

For example... Your house?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 23, 2021, 09:38:40 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 23, 2021, 08:38:05 PM

Why isn't there another place in town that does really good brisket?

For example... Your house?

I'm a crap cook. Just hasn't settled into being a passion. I make a few things I like, but that's about it.

There's a place that I'm told is quite good, though I can't imagine the same care goes into the brisket. Been meaning to try it at some point. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 23, 2021, 10:27:04 PM

I wanted to look at some data to test my theory that the loss per hour is relatively low at Roulette. I looked up some data, and I think I'm right and @longhorn320 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=16) 's assertion that it is a sucker bet is wrong. 

Here is a link to a table of spins, rolls, and hands per hour in Roulette, Craps, and Blackjack:  
https://wizardofodds.com/ask-the-wizard/136/

Per that chart, with five players (it varies a LOT based on number of players) you get:

• 70 Blackjack hands per hour,
• 144 Craps rolls per hour, or
• 48 Roulette spins

Assuming $10 tables and that you bet the minimum each time and hit the average payout your cost per hour would be:

• $14 at Blackjack: I'm assuming 98% payout and you play 70 hands in an hour. The 70 hands cost $700 (70*$10). The 2% that you lose is $14 ($700*.02).
• $28.80 at Craps: I'm using the same 98% payout but now you have more games per hour so the 144 rolls cost you $1,440. The 2% that you lose is $28.80.
• $24 at Roulette: I'm using the roughly 95% payout so the 48 spins cost you $480 and you lose 5% of that or $24.

From the above it looks like Blackjack is much cheaper per hour than either Craps or Roulette but that is with five players at each game. From what I have seen in Vegas (I haven't been in ages, maybe this has changed?) the Craps and Roulette tables have WAY more players than the Blackjack tables. So I think the fair comparison involves much more crowded and therefore slower Craps and Roulette tables. I still think Roulette is the cheapest per hour game.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 23, 2021, 10:41:00 PM

are you saying because you bet less you dont lose as much

I guess thats one way of looking at it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 23, 2021, 10:46:07 PM

If your goal is to lose money at a snails pace while amassing free drinks, then your best bet is to park at a nickle machine and play one credit at a time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2021, 10:58:02 PM

or just  stay away from the casino like me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 24, 2021, 05:09:12 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 23, 2021, 10:41:00 PM

are you saying because you bet less you dont lose as much

I guess thats one way of looking at it

Yes.

I don't gamble much. I haven't been to Vegas in over a decade but when I have gambled I've viewed it as an entertainment expense. As such, my concern is the loss per hour which I think is lowest at a crowded Roulette wheel.

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 23, 2021, 10:46:07 PM

If your goal is to lose money at a snails pace while amassing free drinks, then your best bet is to park at a nickle machine and play one credit at a time.

Maybe, but I just find slots to be ridiculously boring so even if the loss per hour is low, the entertainment value is also low to me. Also, plays per hour can be really high at slots.

Quote from: FearlessF on April 23, 2021, 10:58:02 PM

or just  stay away from the casino like me

Good point and I haven't been in years so I'm with you, away from the casino.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 24, 2021, 07:30:02 AM

I love Vegas, but only for the food and shows and general debauchery. I have almost no interest in gambling either.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2021, 07:37:23 AM

We go every so often and gamble one night.  I set a limit of $100, but usually I quit before I get there unless the table is "fun".  It's entertainment, or it isn't.

The wife does penny slots, which aren't a penny any more, and she often wins $5-6.  She loves the pool at the Trump, seriously, it's a nice pool.  Rental cars are dirt cheap and we get one to drive up into Utah, I really enjoy Zion NP.  

I was musing about card counting a bit, imagine you play at the $10 table with a $2500 limit and you see the odds shift from 2% against to 2% for, and you place a $2500 bet.  And lose.  You still have that 2% edge, and repeat it, and lose again.  Then they reshuffle the deck.  Even at 52:48, if you get there, it's basically 50-50.  Over time, with enough funds, you can work the odds in your favor, but it would be work, and perhaps if your "worked" a normal job you could make more and faster.

It seems like a tough way to make any money, which could be why casinos don't much care.  They can rely on folks who THINK they can CC but really can't.  Those who really can might take a few bucks but it's chump change for them.  And I imagine often the deck remaining in a six deck shoe is usually in their favor.

How often does it flip?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2021, 07:45:34 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/sRktA9H.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 24, 2021, 08:38:33 AM

Macron vows France will ‘never give in’ to ‘Islamist terrorism’ after deadly knife attack | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/world/macron-vows-france-will-never-give-in-to-islamist-terrorism-after-deadly-knife-attack)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 24, 2021, 09:30:05 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 23, 2021, 10:46:07 PM

If your goal is to lose money at a snails pace while amassing free drinks, then your best bet is to park at a nickle machine and play one credit at a time.

Yeah, waitresses come around to the nickel slots about once an hour, from what I've seen.

They come around to the blackjack tables MUCH more frequently. 

The casino knows what's up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 24, 2021, 09:38:35 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 24, 2021, 09:30:05 AM

Yeah, waitresses come around to the nickel slots about once an hour, from what I've seen.

They come around to the blackjack tables MUCH more frequently.

The casino knows what's up.

What’s the old saying? They don’t build places that big a nice giving YOU money.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 24, 2021, 09:39:39 AM

Dear Miss Manners,

I recently repaired a relationship with my estranged brother and his wife. It was caused by her, who was close to my ex-wife and betrayed my confidence when I met my current wife by a) leaking private information about my doings to my ex which got back to me and b) saying rude things to my now current wife on social media. This rift persisted even though they had moved to Orange County ~15 minutes from where I live.

After several years, she reached out, and we had a long talk about the issues, and tried to patch things up. We've seen them a half-dozen times over the last 6 months, both with and without the kids, and it has seemed to be going well. She and my wife really seemed to be hitting it off. I have been clear with my sister-in-law that I won't tell her who she can and can't be friends with, but that it was important to me that if she wanted to remain friends with my ex, all I cared about was keeping my private doings private. 

Fast-forward to Thursday. She reached out to my wife mid-day asking if we had any plans for Saturday and inviting us [and the kids, who were still with their mom on Thursday] over for the afternoon. Without committing, my wife gave the impression that we were in, but hadn't firmed any plans. When she got home from work, we both agreed that we didn't really want to go this weekend, so we canceled.

I picked up the kids yesterday from school, and last night my son asked if he should return some books that he'd borrowed to his cousin, because his mom had told him we were going to see them. Which of course means that sometime between, say, noon and 6 pm, my sister-in-law told my ex that she had made plans with us and the kids. This plans did not involve my ex in any way, and are none of her business.

What should I do?

Sincerely, Hand on the Sibling Relationship Detonator

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 24, 2021, 09:50:21 AM

i still want to pound the snot out of you,The kids have a soccer tournament

Tough call,what's your gut tell you?As the years pass by I stick by the decent folks and sift the phony fence sitters out of the equation.IMO boils down to how much you treasure your brothers company/relationship.People can change but once bitten twice shy - Good Luck

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 24, 2021, 09:53:14 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 24, 2021, 09:30:05 AM

Yeah, waitresses come around to the nickel slots about once an hour, from what I've seen.

They come around to the blackjack tables MUCH more frequently.

The casino knows what's up.

Nothing that can't be solved by studying their system for a few minutes. You quickly observe which waitress is working what section on your initial walk through. Then when one of them starts their rounds, you b-line to a nickel machine in their section. After you get your drink, you back away from the slot machine, while you walk around and drink it. Once it is almost gone, you repeat the process. 

They definitely prioritize the table games though. As soon as you walk in, you'll notice that one of the cocktail waitresses is like ten times better looking then all of the others combined, and you automatically know that her section is the table games. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 24, 2021, 09:53:56 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 24, 2021, 09:39:39 AM

Dear Miss Manners,

I recently repaired a relationship with my estranged brother and his wife. It was caused by her, who was close to my ex-wife and betrayed my confidence when I met my current wife by a) leaking private information about my doings to my ex which got back to me and b) saying rude things to my now current wife on social media. This rift persisted even though they had moved to Orange County ~15 minutes from where I live.

After several years, she reached out, and we had a long talk about the issues, and tried to patch things up. We've seen them a half-dozen times over the last 6 months, both with and without the kids, and it has seemed to be going well. She and my wife really seemed to be hitting it off. I have been clear with my sister-in-law that I won't tell her who she can and can't be friends with, but that it was important to me that if she wanted to remain friends with my ex, all I cared about was keeping my private doings private.

Fast-forward to Thursday. She reached out to my wife mid-day asking if we had any plans for Saturday and inviting us [and the kids, who were still with their mom on Thursday] over for the afternoon. Without committing, my wife gave the impression that we were in, but hadn't firmed any plans. When she got home from work, we both agreed that we didn't really want to go this weekend, so we canceled.

I picked up the kids yesterday from school, and last night my son asked if he should return some books that he'd borrowed to his cousin, because his mom had told him we were going to see them. Which of course means that sometime between, say, noon and 6 pm, my sister-in-law told my ex that she had made plans with us and the kids. This plans did not involve my ex in any way, and are none of her business.

What should I do?

Sincerely, Hand on the Sibling Relationship Detonator

Sit her down, one on one, and lay down the law - firmly. Tell her that if she doesn't stop, she will ruin your relationship with your brother.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 24, 2021, 09:55:23 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 24, 2021, 09:39:39 AM

Dear Miss Manners,

What should I do?

Sincerely, Hand on the Sibling Relationship Detonator

seems fairly innocent to me, knowing only what I've read in the post.
I'd blow it off.
but, that's how I handle most things until something obviously sinister happens

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 24, 2021, 09:58:37 AM

Well what if she wants to go golfing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 24, 2021, 10:02:46 AM

G - entlemen

O - nly

L - adies

F - orbidden

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 24, 2021, 10:03:13 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 24, 2021, 09:53:56 AM

Sit her down, one on one, and lay down the law - firmly. Tell her that if she doesn't stop, she will ruin your relationship with your brother.

I think he said he hammered some of that out.If things are going somewhat smoothly,give it a 2nd shot.That way Bwarb took the high road.Some people aren't necessarily nefarious they just have big mouths and have to bump their gums-which gets them into trouble.If things don't work out a 2nd time then Bwarbs brother has a 1st class problem on his hands

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 24, 2021, 10:04:32 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 24, 2021, 10:02:46 AM

G - entlemen

O - nly

L - adies

F - orbidden

So how did you talk your way on?Providing pilsner to the starter?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 24, 2021, 10:08:18 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 24, 2021, 09:39:39 AM

Dear Miss Manners,

I recently repaired a relationship with my estranged brother and his wife. It was caused by her, who was close to my ex-wife and betrayed my confidence when I met my current wife by a) leaking private information about my doings to my ex which got back to me and b) saying rude things to my now current wife on social media. This rift persisted even though they had moved to Orange County ~15 minutes from where I live.

After several years, she reached out, and we had a long talk about the issues, and tried to patch things up. We've seen them a half-dozen times over the last 6 months, both with and without the kids, and it has seemed to be going well. She and my wife really seemed to be hitting it off. I have been clear with my sister-in-law that I won't tell her who she can and can't be friends with, but that it was important to me that if she wanted to remain friends with my ex, all I cared about was keeping my private doings private.

Fast-forward to Thursday. She reached out to my wife mid-day asking if we had any plans for Saturday and inviting us [and the kids, who were still with their mom on Thursday] over for the afternoon. Without committing, my wife gave the impression that we were in, but hadn't firmed any plans. When she got home from work, we both agreed that we didn't really want to go this weekend, so we canceled.

I picked up the kids yesterday from school, and last night my son asked if he should return some books that he'd borrowed to his cousin, because his mom had told him we were going to see them. Which of course means that sometime between, say, noon and 6 pm, my sister-in-law told my ex that she had made plans with us and the kids. This plans did not involve my ex in any way, and are none of her business.

What should I do?

Sincerely, Hand on the Sibling Relationship Detonator

OK, I will admit to things before giving any advice. I’m sure there is some depth of context/subtext I missing. I also tend to look for the most friendly read on things, some thing that used to drive a long-term ex girlfriend insane. I am also not much of a detonator person.

under the assumption that the kids were already part of the deal, I think saying “ i’m going to see your kids“ is enough of their business that it can’t just count as your business. granted, I don’t know how much she jumped the gun, I don’t know how much the kids were supposed to be involved, etc.

In short, again without what I’m sure is a boatload of context, An aunt telling a mother she is excited to see nieces/nephews strikes me as communal business, or communal enough to avoid blowing everything up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 24, 2021, 10:09:48 AM

Dig up some dirt on your brothers wife, and then threaten to expose her if she doesn't play nice. 

**insert pot stirring emoticon** 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 24, 2021, 10:13:18 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 24, 2021, 10:09:48 AM

Dig up some dirt on your brothers wife, and then threaten to expose her if she doesn't play nice.

**insert pot stirring emoticon**

Pot of chili?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 24, 2021, 10:16:34 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 24, 2021, 10:09:48 AM

Dig up some dirt on your brothers wife, and then threaten to expose her if she doesn't play nice.

**insert pot stirring emoticon**

He's trying to repair frayed feelings not blow up the bridge.Will ask you later if things go south :098:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 24, 2021, 10:21:14 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 24, 2021, 10:04:32 AM

So how did you talk your way on?Providing pilsner to the starter?

I put up a good front on the first tee box

urinating on the 3rd or 4th fairway is usually a dead giveaway 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 24, 2021, 10:22:59 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 24, 2021, 10:16:34 AM

He's trying to repair frayed feelings not blow up the bridge.Will ask you later if things go south :098:

Not blowing up the bridge, it would be like one of those psychological thrillers where nobody knows but the two of them. Alpha Beta would then excerpt more and more control over her behind the curtains, dragging her into a nightmarish existence of secretive torment administered by a maniacal brother in law, while everyone else in her life thinks that they have patched things up, and are getting along great. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 24, 2021, 10:30:06 AM

The first time I went into a casino was at the age of 17.  My big sister and her boyfriend took me to Lake Tahoe

anyway I started playing the nickel slots  and proceeded to hit several jackpots in a row

I was swimming in nickels which had filled up half the hopper

about this time this beautiful girl comes over and asks me if Id like a drink

I ordered a beer

so I stood there winning money and drinking free beer thinking this was the greatest ever

went home with over $200 in winnings and slightly drunk

been hooked on casinos ever since

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 24, 2021, 10:36:44 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 24, 2021, 10:16:34 AM

He's trying to repair frayed feelings not blow up the bridge.

That's yet to be determined. I'm too old for drama in my life and might just blow up the bridge.

You know the old saying... Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 24, 2021, 10:08:18 AM

under the assumption that the kids were already part of the deal, I think saying “ i’m going to see your kids“ is enough of their business that it can’t just count as your business. granted, I don’t know how much she jumped the gun, I don’t know how much the kids were supposed to be involved, etc.

In short, again without what I’m sure is a boatload of context, An aunt telling a mother she is excited to see nieces/nephews strikes me as communal business, or communal enough to avoid blowing everything up.

Normally I might agree. So there's context, built out of lack of trust.

She contacted my wife basically at noon Thursday. It pretty much came out of nowhere for us; we usually schedule well in advance. With what I know of the kids' schedule, my wife would have had to be going to pick up the kids from school by 1:30 PM. I very highly doubt that she could have physically seen my ex post-1:30. 

Maybe they were just texting back and forth. Maybe because she was texting my ex at the time, she thought about me, my wife, and the kids, and decided to invite us, and completely innocently divulged that information to my ex...

Or... Maybe they were out to lunch together. Maybe they were cooking something up. They're both gossips, and were gossips when my ex and I were married. Was she across the table from my ex, texting my wife? Was I going to get ambushed by my ex showing up at this afternoon bbq because suddenly they all want to be a happy family? Am I just driving myself crazy with outlandish possibilities?

We just saw them with the kids 2 weeks ago at our house. So I doubt she was just overcome by excitement at seeing the kids and had to gush it out to someone. And the late timing of the invite was questionable. And I already don't trust her. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 24, 2021, 11:02:04 AM

I guess it really all depends on how much you value a relationship with you brother. That's the bottom line.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 24, 2021, 11:30:22 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 24, 2021, 11:02:04 AM

I guess it really all depends on how much you value a relationship with you brother. That's the bottom line.

I only value relationships with people who value mine... And a married couple is a package deal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 24, 2021, 11:41:49 AM

Time to walk, I reckon. Sorry man. That's where I'd be.

Too many good friends to have bad ones, right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 24, 2021, 05:47:12 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 24, 2021, 10:36:44 AM

Normally I might agree. So there's context, built out of lack of trust.

She contacted my wife basically at noon Thursday. It pretty much came out of nowhere for us; we usually schedule well in advance. With what I know of the kids' schedule, my wife would have had to be going to pick up the kids from school by 1:30 PM. I very highly doubt that she could have physically seen my ex post-1:30.

Maybe they were just texting back and forth. Maybe because she was texting my ex at the time, she thought about me, my wife, and the kids, and decided to invite us, and completely innocently divulged that information to my ex...

Or... Maybe they were out to lunch together. Maybe they were cooking something up. They're both gossips, and were gossips when my ex and I were married. Was she across the table from my ex, texting my wife? Was I going to get ambushed by my ex showing up at this afternoon bbq because suddenly they all want to be a happy family? Am I just driving myself crazy with outlandish possibilities?

We just saw them with the kids 2 weeks ago at our house. So I doubt she was just overcome by excitement at seeing the kids and had to gush it out to someone. And the late timing of the invite was questionable. And I already don't trust her.

Makes sense, especially with a history of chicanery.

I would warn about the bolded section. I've lived less life than you, but I've learned that people are not nearly as intentional as they are in our worried brains. Even if we think people are all hanging out without us, it's usually not the case. 

That said, at the moment, do you NEED to hit the button? You canceled the plans. I assume something else happened with the Saturday. If a schism is meant to be, they'll give you a damn good reason. Folks like that always do. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 24, 2021, 06:18:10 PM

As someone with a nutty vindictive ex, I have two opposite thoughts. One, there is something to be said for not letting her dictate your life. She already seems to have driven a wedge between you and your brother and seems able to cause all sorts of issues that make you feel crazy and self-doubting. There is a certain refreshing feeling to saying screw whatever she thinks because she is no longer a part of your life (which is itself false, because you have kids together and she's like a ghost that always haunts you).

The other thought is that you are part of the family and she is not. So why the hell is this lady talking to her at all?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2021, 06:56:21 PM

I have a nutty ex, somewhere.  One kid thinks she may be in Israel, or not, neither of them have any contact, though every couple of years she tries to get in touch with them apparently, with marginal success.  

As for me, I feel like an OLD man now.  I can barely walk two blocks with this heart thing.  I reckon a few decades back, if this happened to you, you were just basically sedentary for the rest of your life a walker, a powered wheel chair, something.  I can barely move, and it's getting worse.  I can't recall ever thinking I'd be happy to have surgery, but this will be an occasion.

The poor wife is having to make every meal now, I keep saying I'm sorry, I can probably do a little bit, slowly.

Don't let this happen to you, and if it does, go early to the doc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 24, 2021, 08:13:58 PM

Our excuse for cancelling was that I had made a tee time with my 13yo for the afternoon. Which means that I had to make a tee time lol.

So we played nine holes. I shot a personal best for that course at +4. My son had two really good chances at making his first par of his life, but not just barely missed. One if these days one of those will drop.

Wife is making salmon tacos for dinner tonight.

So I suppose it all worked out today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 24, 2021, 09:15:19 PM

Well while Alpha Beta is busy eating his wife's tuna taco, which one of you has the craziest ex? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 24, 2021, 10:01:27 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 24, 2021, 09:15:19 PM

Well while Alpha Beta is busy eating his wife's tuna taco, which one of you has the craziest ex?

not me my 50th wedding anniversary will be in July

I got married when I was 6 but its Texas so no problem

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 24, 2021, 11:35:28 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 24, 2021, 09:15:19 PM

Well while Alpha Beta is busy eating his wife's tuna taco, which one of you has the craziest ex?

don't want to talk about it

my daughters don't have much communication with their mother, I think that's very unfortunate

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2021, 12:11:12 AM

I was crap at dating when I was young, which meant I avoided landing an ex-wife. 

At the time, it bothered me. In retrospect, coulda been worse. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2021, 08:42:11 AM

Is there anything left to take back? Why is NOW the time? Why has this been allowed to go on for almost a year?


Portland mayor says it's time take our city back' from violent mob (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/portland-mayor-says-it-s-time-take-our-city-back-from-violent-mob/ar-BB1g0Sl5?ocid=msedgntp)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 25, 2021, 09:05:34 AM

real leadership

real poor leadership

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Kris60 on April 25, 2021, 09:21:23 AM

My two cents on Bwarb’s situation is it sounds like making a mountain out of a mole hill.  I don’t know the history but telling your ex you are coming over to hang out seems pretty mundane information to be passing along.


On a different note for all you guys with ex-wives how do you think they describe you? Are you the crazy ex in their stories?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2021, 09:47:12 AM

My ex showed up, the last time I saw her, to warn me that the Russians were about to invade the US and I should take precautions.  She went on at some length about it, and was obviously serious.  I just listened patiently.  She finally left.  This was about 2013 or so.

I ended up doing every chore to be done around the house, with three small kids, everything, including yard work.  It was exhausting, and my work load went down when she moved out because I no longer had her messes to clean up.  She came home drunk one night and collapsed on the couch and threw up and left the mess on the floor, and then claimed the next day it wasn't her mess.  That was very near the end obviously.

She just didn't want kids, three kids into the deal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 25, 2021, 09:54:09 AM

might have me beat on the craziness index there

mine wasn't REAL crazy, just didn't want kids, 2 kids into the deal

and similarly, I did all the chores, cleaning all her messes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2021, 10:13:04 AM

We got married too young, and we simply grew up, and apart. Thankfully, no kids and I've not seen her since (1993).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 25, 2021, 10:14:06 AM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/176223735_6001315076560997_8144094745079466375_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=tBZ9lsKq5d8AX9TpmRx&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=86cded5aad368087dce3acb8137313f6&oe=60A9E6C7)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 25, 2021, 10:37:24 AM

Quote from: Kris60 on April 25, 2021, 09:21:23 AM

On a different note for all you guys with ex-wives how do you think they describe you? Are you the crazy ex in their stories?

Oh, I'm certain she describes me as an asshole. 

Partly because I've had to be one; she has tried to take advantage of my good nature several times since the divorce so I have that wall up constantly. 

It's been much more pleasant the last year or two when she finally realized that when she pushes, I'll push back, and harder.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 25, 2021, 10:40:36 AM

I'm glad that I didn't get married young. 

If I had, then whoever I married would be pushing 40 right about now. :o

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Kris60 on April 25, 2021, 11:40:56 AM

Well, I was lucky I guess. Tomorrow is my 18th wedding anniversary.  I married over my head. She is way better looking than I am, way smarter, and makes more money than I do.

Luckily, I’m terrific in bed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2021, 11:50:14 AM

I think luck is part of it.  I was finishing up grad school and she was finishing undergrad, and "what was next" seemed to be "marry whoever you are with at the time".

And I was a month from being 26 when we married, so it wasn't doing it too soon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 25, 2021, 01:45:54 PM

Quote from: Kris60 on April 25, 2021, 11:40:56 AM

Luckily, I’m terrific in bed.

You're in the corn liquor again aren't you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 25, 2021, 01:49:09 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 25, 2021, 09:47:12 AM

My ex showed up, the last time I saw her, to warn me that the Russians were about to invade the US and I should take precautions.  

Is she an NHL Fan?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 25, 2021, 02:27:29 PM

All of these horror stories/sob stories make me feel fortunate. 
Marrying/living with someone has never appealed to me.  I'd love to have a wife for about 2 days a week.  That's not gonna fly, so I've avoided all that.  I've only dabbled in the fun first 4 months of a relationship, then let things fizzle and move on.

All the good, none of the bad.  

Similarly, my love of children influenced my career, not personal life.  I have no desire to have my own kids because I work with them every day....and get to send them home.  One thing online teaching has revealed is how hectic/loud my students' homes are.  And I assume that's pretty normal.  I get to come home to a quiet apartment just how I left it, everyday.  Any messes are my messes.  I leave it messy for an hour or a week - and it only affects me.  One thing I really hated about longer relationships has been my behaviors affecting someone I love in a negative way.  I love-love-love that my faults or failures or laziness or shortcomings don't affect anyone as a single guy.  

Any women I have spent quality time with in the past, I still have a net plus relationship with.  One even spent a week in FL with me a few years after we broke up.  She was a good one.  If I had to get married, it'd be to her.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2021, 02:36:26 PM

My wife is my partner in everything (except work) and she's my best friend. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Just celebrated our 24th.

Hopefully can live to celebrate 50.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2021, 04:13:01 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 25, 2021, 01:49:09 PM

Is she an NHL Fan?

No, just really in bad shape mentally.

I get mail addressed to her here occasionally, the outside looks like folks wanting her to pay up, I don't open, just resend address unknown.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 25, 2021, 04:17:30 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 25, 2021, 02:27:29 PM

All of these horror stories/sob stories make me feel fortunate.
All the good, none of the bad. 

Ya you get to spend more time with yourself lucky you :D

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2021, 04:36:42 PM

You can date a girl for a while and live with her, but when you get married, it changes.

If you have kids, it really changes.  A lot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2021, 04:43:45 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 25, 2021, 04:36:42 PM

You can date a girl for a while and live with her, but when you get married, it changes.

If you have kids, it really changes.  A lot.

yep you grow up in a hurry

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 25, 2021, 10:10:40 PM

well, some of us grow up in a hurry

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2021, 10:40:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 25, 2021, 04:36:42 PM

You can date a girl for a while and live with her, but when you get married, it changes.

If you have kids, it really changes.  A lot.

Some fine advice from a family member when I moved cross country for my first full-time job. 

“don’t get anyone pregnant or you’ll be stuck there forever.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 26, 2021, 12:48:30 AM

Any of you been married more than twice?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2021, 06:57:21 AM

Not I.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 26, 2021, 08:52:12 AM

Just the one for me.

My BIL has been married three times.

My SIL has also been married 3 times, twice to the same guy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2021, 09:00:22 AM

With a tax rate of 51.4% of GDP, Swedes are one of the most highly taxed populations in the world. Ironically, they are generally happy to pay a high tax rate, and the Swedish word for tax is skatt, or “treasure.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2021, 09:22:56 AM

Looks like our trip to Europe is gonna be on!


EU finalizing plans to allow US tourists back this summer (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/eu-finalizing-plans-to-allow-us-tourists-back-this-summer/ar-BB1g4gDw?ocid=uxbndlbing)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 26, 2021, 09:46:24 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2021, 09:22:56 AM

Looks like our trip to Europe is gonna be on!


EU finalizing plans to allow US tourists back this summer (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/eu-finalizing-plans-to-allow-us-tourists-back-this-summer/ar-BB1g4gDw?ocid=uxbndlbing)

We were supposed to go last summer-- Budapest, Croatia, Greece-- and it was canceled due to COVID of course. 

I thought about rescheduling for this year, but even though travel in looks to be allowed for vaccinated Americans, I still don't think things will be back to normal enough.  So we're going to wait until 2022.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2021, 09:53:02 AM

We are going to see our friends in Munich, then going to head to Lisbon with them for two nights before we board the ship to Miami. It will be normal enough for us.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 26, 2021, 09:55:31 AM

For me a huge part of visiting foreign countries, is visiting their bars and restaurants.  I don't think that will be normal enough for me through 2021, although I will say that crowds will likely still be somewhat diminished, and there's something to be said for that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 26, 2021, 10:01:10 AM

I had a cousin in the Air Force that got hitched seven times. Never once learned his lesson. He just married every gal he dated, and then he'd get divorced a few years later. 

He had a kid with his first wife, then he divorced her because she got knocked up by another guy. When that second kid was an adult he had a DNA test because he looked just like my cousin, and it turned out to be his kid all along. They became roommates for a while after that. The second wife made him get a vasectomy, and the fourth wife made him get it reversed so that they could have a kid together, which they did. Then he must have gotten another one because he burned through three more wives after that without knocking any of them up. 

That's the most extreme case of stacking exes that I know of. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 26, 2021, 10:05:30 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 26, 2021, 09:46:24 AM

We were supposed to go last summer-- Budapest, Croatia, Greece-- and it was canceled due to COVID of course.

I thought about rescheduling for this year, but even though travel in looks to be allowed for vaccinated Americans, I still don't think things will be back to normal enough.  So we're going to wait until 2022.

Well then enjoy your own lakes,hopefully they don't shrivel up again

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 26, 2021, 10:08:02 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 26, 2021, 10:01:10 AM

I had a cousin in the Air Force that got hitched seven times. Never once learned his lesson. He just married every gal he dated, and then he'd get divorced a few years later.

He had a kid with his first wife, then he divorced her because she got knocked up by another guy. When that second kid was an adult he had a DNA test because he looked just like my cousin, and it turned out to be his kid all along. They became roommates for a while after that. The second wife made him get a vasectomy, and the fourth wife made him get it reversed so that they could have a kid together, which they did. Then he must have gotten another one because he burned through three more wives after that without knocking any of them up.

That's the most extreme case of stacking exes that I know of.

That has the makings of a good sit-com......or a perpetual nightmare

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 26, 2021, 10:19:39 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 26, 2021, 10:05:30 AM

Well then enjoy your own lakes,hopefully they don't shrivel up again

They're already getting pretty bad.  There are several constant-level lakes but they get really crowded when the larger reservoir lakes aren't full.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 26, 2021, 10:27:50 AM

Most of our lakes are filled up, somehow some way.



(https://www.trekwithus.com/kayaking-sand-hollow-state-park-utah/sand-hollow-fishing/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 26, 2021, 11:24:10 AM

The woman my dad's married to now had previously married the same guy twice.  I think he died the 2nd time, so only 1 divorce.  

If I had a boring, quiet, mundane job in a cubicle somewhere, I may want marriage and kids and all that.  But I can't fathom coming home to it after a day with 25 kids.  
I honestly think teachers who are parents are clinically insane.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 26, 2021, 11:28:55 AM

I hear trips to India are pretty cheap this week.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 26, 2021, 11:54:34 AM

Just when I think that I have fro pegged, I find out that he is capable of a selfless act.

He is to be commended for voluntarily removing himself from the genepool. 

Sort of like self-imposed Darwinism. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 26, 2021, 11:59:11 AM

Indeed.  Sort of like the best potential presidents have no interest in the job, right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 26, 2021, 12:09:25 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 26, 2021, 11:59:11 AM

Indeed.  Sort of like the best potential presidents have no interest in the job, right?

nope

more like a man knowing his limitations

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 26, 2021, 12:22:08 PM

So I took a gander at the arrest records in a resort town that I will be staying at for a couple of nights, and it was mostly just the usual DUI/Pubic Intoxication type stuff. But they arrested this one guy from Las Vegas. Get a load of his charges. 

• Unlawful deposit of dead animal
• Public urination/defication
• Domestic battery by strangulation
• Sexual assault
• Robbery
• Kidnapping, first degree
• Domestic violence/substantial bodily harm

Now THAT is one helluva crime spree. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2021, 12:26:56 PM

just another night on the town for some folks

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 26, 2021, 12:32:30 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 26, 2021, 09:55:31 AM

For me a huge part of visiting foreign countries, is visiting their bars and restaurants.  I don't think that will be normal enough for me through 2021, although I will say that crowds will likely still be somewhat diminished, and there's something to be said for that.

Yep. I want to experience the way a foreign country lives, not experience the way a foreign country deals with a pandemic. 

That's interesting enough at home, and cheaper.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2021, 12:41:43 PM

The trip is in November. All is well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2021, 01:16:22 PM

A thing I enjoy, aside from history, in foreign countries is getting a better idea how the locals live, locally.  That by definition means "away from tourists".  We stayed three weeks in a tiny village in our daughter's home that was pretty neat.  We walked a lot and visited the local "bistro" several times for lunch to the point they got to know us.  This was Jan-Feb last year, before the Thing.

We were oogling one "mansion" and the owner happened to be by and chatted with us, in English, for a bit.  His grounds were impressive.  He owned an ancient gas station garage now converted to hold his antique cars which he showed us.  

I used to meet folks who said they had been to Atlanta when what they meant was they changed planes in the airport.

I have dragged the wife past too many battlefields and military museums, including the Maginot Line, which is quite impressive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 26, 2021, 01:33:54 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 26, 2021, 01:16:22 PM

I used to meet folks who said they had been to Atlanta when what they meant was they changed planes in the airport.

LOL. I usually don't count having "been" somewhere unless my feet have touched terra firma outside of the airport.

I've changed planes through Heathrow once, and I've actually had a layover in London where I had to take an Uber from Heathrow to Gatwick which would I guess qualify for my definition...

...but I still don't say I've "been to" the UK.

Same with Hong Kong. I've been through the airport several times, and I've left the airport and gotten into a car and gone across the border to Shenzhen on several occasions, but I don't consider that having "been to" Hong Kong.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2021, 01:38:25 PM

I have "lived" in three states, for any period of time, and they are more similar than different, GA NC OH.  I lived longest in OH oddly enough.

The wife talks about living in France for 3-4 months, but that plan has not materialized.  I doubt it will.  In reality, we usually visit some place and hit up the tourist spots and think we've been there, which technically is true.  She has a long monologue on how daunting "living" in France can be, things like getting permits for everything under the sun.

We went to the DMV here to get our state DL and were out in 40 minutes, I was amazed, she was incredulous.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2021, 01:54:29 PM

Man, the DMV experience here was actually pleasant.

In Illinois, it was dreadful. Just for the DL, you waited in 7 lines for 7 separate people - the last one being the cashier. The greeter, who pointed you to the next line, was normally OK but the rest were downright terrible to deal with. The last time I renewed, it took a little over 3 hours.

Here, I did my DL, Title and Plates in 30 minutes, with ONE person. She even took the picture herself, and took my payments. Also walked out to the car to verify the VIN. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2021, 02:00:18 PM

I'd like to "live" in Texas from January 3rd to March 15th annually.

Unless I'm just living there with a long trip to Iowa/Nebraska in July and August

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2021, 02:02:34 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2021, 01:54:29 PM

Man, the DMV experience here was actually pleasant.

In Illinois, it was dreadful. Just for the DL, you waited in 7 lines for 7 separate people - the last one being the cashier. The greeter, who pointed you to the next line, was normally OK but the rest were downright terrible to deal with. The last time I renewed, it took a little over 3 hours.

Here, I did my DL, Title and Plates in 30 minutes, with ONE person. She even took the picture herself, and took my payments. Also walked out to the car to verify the VIN.

here the title and plates are in a different location and almost pleasant.
The DL office on the other hand is not good, almost terrible.
I need to upgrade my DL to the new one that is TSA approved for commercial flights

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 26, 2021, 02:21:52 PM

I've noticed the CA DMV has improved significantly since moving here 20 years ago... Definitely more streamlined and makes me less stabby.

Last time I had to renew my DL I was in and out in probably 15 minutes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 26, 2021, 02:23:19 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 26, 2021, 02:21:52 PM

I've noticed the CA DMV has improved significantly since moving here 20 years ago... Definitely more streamlined and makes me less stabby.

Last time I had to renew my DL I was in and out in probably 15 minutes.

That’s good! 

When I first got my license 120 years ago, I thought my family was going to catch a murder charge before it was done. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 26, 2021, 02:23:28 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 26, 2021, 01:16:22 PM

I have dragged the wife past too many battlefields and military museums, including the Maginot Line, which is quite impressive.

Well if some of those battlefields weren't hotly contested it'd be a real drag.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 26, 2021, 02:24:50 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 26, 2021, 02:02:34 PM

The DL office on the other hand is not good, almost terrible.

Still upset about the picture?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 26, 2021, 02:26:49 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2021, 01:54:29 PM

Man, the DMV experience here was actually pleasant.

prolly because most of the immigrants jumping ship don't bother to get a DL

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 26, 2021, 02:30:38 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 26, 2021, 12:22:08 PM

Now THAT is one helluva crime spree.

even ANTIFA is like WTF,dude.Not really prolly their sargent at arms

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2021, 02:48:51 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 26, 2021, 02:21:52 PM

I've noticed the CA DMV has improved significantly since moving here 20 years ago... Definitely more streamlined and makes me less stabby.

Last time I had to renew my DL I was in and out in probably 15 minutes.

Do you remember Illinois? Unchanged/worse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 26, 2021, 02:52:44 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2021, 02:48:51 PM

Do you remember Illinois? Unchanged/worse.

I've tried to block it out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 26, 2021, 03:22:15 PM

Issue with sister-in-law confronted [nicely] and averted. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 26, 2021, 03:26:00 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 26, 2021, 12:26:56 PM

just another night on the town for some folks

I'm just wondering what he possibly could have caught him doing that would result in that exact list of charges. Best I can come up with is that he was violently raping a woman while simultaneously taking a dump on an animal carcass. Outdoors.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2021, 03:29:20 PM

I'd rather not wonder

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 26, 2021, 03:35:44 PM

Where is Maximum Sam when you need him?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 26, 2021, 03:56:55 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 26, 2021, 03:22:15 PM

Issue with sister-in-law confronted [nicely] and averted.

Glad to hear it!

I hoped, for you, that you wouldn't have to detonate the sibling relationship. 

My das is in Hospice with very limited time remaining and I surely wouldn't want to face that with an estranged sibling. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 26, 2021, 04:00:08 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 26, 2021, 02:21:52 PM

I've noticed the CA DMV has improved significantly since moving here 20 years ago... Definitely more streamlined and makes me less stabby.

Last time I had to renew my DL I was in and out in probably 15 minutes.

I renewed my license last summer, in the middle of the early stages of the pandemic.  They had completely changed the system, with a scheduled appointment time, all paperwork and questions completed online before arrival.  Basically all I did when I got there was take the eye test and sign my name.  In and out in maybe 8 minutes tops. It was fantastic.  I hope they keep it that way forever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 26, 2021, 04:07:39 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 26, 2021, 03:35:44 PM

Where is Maximum Sam when you need him?

Mistakes were made

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 26, 2021, 04:18:26 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 26, 2021, 03:26:00 PM

I'm just wondering what he possibly could have caught him doing that would result in that exact list of charges. Best I can come up with is that he was violently raping a woman while simultaneously taking a dump on an animal carcass. Outdoors.

Only a savage would do that indoors.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 26, 2021, 04:19:59 PM

2020 Census results starting to be released:

https://twitter.com/nytgraphics/status/1386774091693240329

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2021, 04:29:46 PM

Let the jerrymeandering begin...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 26, 2021, 05:14:32 PM

Indeed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 26, 2021, 05:45:46 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 26, 2021, 04:19:59 PM

2020 Census results starting to be released:

https://twitter.com/nytgraphics/status/1386774091693240329

Amazing that California is losing a seat, first time ever IIRC.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 26, 2021, 05:53:23 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2021, 04:29:46 PM

Let the jerrymeandering begin...

better that than gerrymandering,I mean meandering they can go to hell hopefully

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 26, 2021, 06:05:28 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on April 26, 2021, 05:45:46 PM

Amazing that California is losing a seat, first time ever IIRC.

And yet... California is still growing population...

Just not as fast as other states to the extent that they aren't keeping up. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 26, 2021, 06:12:19 PM

Ohio was my fault.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 26, 2021, 10:07:55 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on April 26, 2021, 05:45:46 PM

Amazing that California is losing a seat, first time ever IIRC.

Good economics, I think. The country should balance out, to a degree. People in expensive places should go to cheaper ones based on natural movements, until things balance out a bit. 

Which means places where things are nice and cheap will perpetually be bum rushed by money and then get pricy. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 26, 2021, 11:37:26 PM

Is any state supposed to have perpetual growth?  No.  Just like no company should.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2021, 03:52:54 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 26, 2021, 06:12:19 PM

Ohio was my fault.

Illinois was mine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2021, 05:28:04 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 26, 2021, 06:05:28 PM

And yet... California is still growing population...

Just not as fast as other states to the extent that they aren't keeping up.

Sure is....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2021, 05:31:26 AM

Calls for John Kerry to be investigated for what he told Iran | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/world/calls-for-john-kerry-to-be-investigated-for-what-he-told-iran)

Let's see how this goes for Tehran John.

And, nothing to see here.

CNN - Breaking News, Latest News and Videos (https://www.cnn.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 27, 2021, 06:42:31 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/yimzuz5.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2021, 12:20:12 PM

24 Science Myths Almost Everyone Believes (sciencesensei.com) (https://sciencesensei.com/24-science-myths-almost-everyone-believes/4/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SCS&utm_campaign=23846987587970781&utm_content=23846987605080781_23846987605060781&fbclid=IwAR3f8B1zrmyvyIG2dEnvVx2llRTUgtXLFbQ31BwBJ6-FDwQldX6OfTLIYN4)

These really are just plain myths, like folks think humid air is "heavier" than dry air.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 27, 2021, 12:57:15 PM

I just cannot believe that the five second rule isn't scientifically sound.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 27, 2021, 01:03:26 PM

The thing that gets me is the putting salt in boiling water one...

Of course it does... Something. 

It makes your pasta taste better.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 27, 2021, 02:16:39 PM

got my tickets to Husker baseball Sunday vs Rutgers - daughter is going with me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2021, 03:41:02 PM

I don't salt pasta water myself, but any difference would be marginal of course.  The sauce usually has plenty of salt for my tastes.

The sugar-kids thing really is a widely spread belief.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 27, 2021, 03:44:39 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2021, 03:41:02 PM

I don't salt pasta water myself, but any difference would be marginal of course.  The sauce usually has plenty of salt for my tastes.

The sugar-kids thing really is a widely spread belief.

I was taught that you season at every step... 

Also that when you're salting pasta water, you don't dump a tbls of salt in 2 gallons of water... I agree that's marginal. I usually throw in a handful.

(We go through salt quickly at my house lol...)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 27, 2021, 05:30:23 PM

Margaritas be my guess or to repel wicked spirits

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 27, 2021, 05:48:29 PM

Margaritas-- sounds good, don't mind if I do.  It is Taco Tuesday after all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2021, 05:58:23 PM

Why is there not a Taco Thursday also?

We tried a new hot chicken place just a block away for lunch called "Howlin's", it's side by side with the "Mexican" place called Willy's Mexicana Grill.  Hattie B's is much better, but takes a drive to get to and it's always packed.

It seems nearly all the food workers here are Hispanic, even at the noodle places, which are popular here.  If I had known I could serve Ramen noodles for $10 a bowl, I'd be rich now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 27, 2021, 06:00:00 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2021, 05:58:23 PM

Why is there not a Taco Thursday also?

Because they're tacos, not thacos. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 27, 2021, 06:01:46 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 27, 2021, 06:00:00 PM

Because they're tacos, not thacos.

They are in Barthelona.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 27, 2021, 06:04:20 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 27, 2021, 06:01:46 PM

They are in Barthelona.

No, those would be cacos.

In Barthelona they'd be pronounced tathos ;-) 

Funny thing... My SIL is an Aussie. One of the first times I met her she was new to the US and living with my brother in San Diego, and we were eating Mexican food... She pronounced tortilla like it's spelled rather than tor-tee-ah. I didn't say anything, but clearly have never forgotten that one...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 27, 2021, 06:06:38 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 27, 2021, 06:04:20 PM

No, those would be cacos.

In Barthelona they'd be pronounced tathos ;-)

Funny thing... My SIL is an Aussie. One of the first times I met her she was new to the US and living with my brother in San Diego, and we were eating Mexican food... She pronounced tortilla like it's spelled rather than tor-tee-ah. I didn't say anything, but clearly have never forgotten that one...

Way to be completely literal and ruin a joke.  Typical engineer, you must be the life of all the parties.

Edit: Also, when I was younger I was over at one of my Jewish buddy's houses for dinner and told them that I really like CH-ALLA bread.  His parents were polite and didn't say anything, but my buddy laughed his arse off at me and to this day he gives me a hard time for that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2021, 06:09:04 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 27, 2021, 05:48:29 PM

Margaritas-- sounds good, don't mind if I do.  It is Taco Tuesday after all.

margaritas off limits for me causes stomach problems

I'll have a beer please

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 27, 2021, 08:03:02 PM

I many times pronounce tortilla like it's spelled rather than tor-tee-ah.

but, that's just to amuse or annoy folks

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 27, 2021, 08:04:17 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 27, 2021, 06:09:04 PM

margaritas off limits for me causes stomach problems

I'll have a beer please

you should work on your gut health

what is it in the Marg that triggers yer tummy?

perhaps you need better tequila 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2021, 08:11:15 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 27, 2021, 08:04:17 PM

you should work on your gut health

what is it in the Marg that triggers yer tummy?

perhaps you need better tequila

nope not the liquor its the citric acid in the lime juice

believe me Ive tested it several times

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 27, 2021, 08:42:28 PM

yup, the citric acid in fruit can give me some heartburn

especially in the morning

margs don't seem to bother for whatever reason, maybe cause they're later in the day?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 27, 2021, 08:43:13 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 27, 2021, 08:03:02 PM

I many times pronounce tortilla like it's spelled rather than tor-tee-ah.

but, that's just to amuse or annoy folks

Last time I was in Lafayette IN I was served a quesadilla, and the waitress (who I'd venture to say has never left this country) pronounced the second half of it like it's spelled... But oddly enough got the first half right.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2021, 09:34:27 PM

I once ordered a "Kwa-Sahn" at Arby's and got a strange look.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 28, 2021, 06:42:30 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 27, 2021, 06:06:38 PM

, when I was younger I was over at one of my Jewish buddy's houses for dinner and told them that I really like CH-ALLA bread.  His parents were polite and didn't say anything, but my buddy laughed his arse off at me and to this day he gives me a hard time for that.

Missed the conotation - the emphasis on ALLA ?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 28, 2021, 07:52:54 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/CK5bbZ2.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 28, 2021, 08:40:53 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 28, 2021, 06:42:30 AM

Missed the conotation - the emphasis on ALLA ?

Oh no, that would have been even more awkward.

I just said it with a "ch" sound like cheese, rather than the throaty H sound that people of the Tribe would use.  Hallah.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 28, 2021, 09:04:04 AM

Gotcha or Hotcha

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 28, 2021, 09:07:39 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/ILUmUl2.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 28, 2021, 10:02:38 AM

CA-18 Mustang

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-0/p526x296/175987015_10159873243662923_3557655042952795148_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=LVn8zjcNN1gAX81eWza&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=b9c21cb8a245c2db936674b828d4472e&oe=60AD2C06)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 28, 2021, 10:24:33 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 28, 2021, 08:40:53 AM

Oh no, that would have been even more awkward.

I just said it with a "ch" sound like cheese, rather than the throaty H sound that people of the Tribe would use.  Hallah.

I love the use of throaty there. Because it’s a sound/letter that isn’t really part of our alphabet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 28, 2021, 11:18:29 AM

Just saw a unicorn, folks...

A woman wearing shiny, tight, black leggings... Who actually had the body to pull it off 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 28, 2021, 11:20:07 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 28, 2021, 11:18:29 AM

Just saw a unicorn, folks...

A woman wearing shiny, tight, black leggings... Who actually had the body to pull it off

Picture, or it didn't happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 28, 2021, 11:58:13 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 28, 2021, 10:02:38 AM

CA-18 Mustang

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-0/p526x296/175987015_10159873243662923_3557655042952795148_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=LVn8zjcNN1gAX81eWza&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=b9c21cb8a245c2db936674b828d4472e&oe=60AD2C06)

Rosie the Rivoter scrubs up nice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 28, 2021, 12:32:19 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 28, 2021, 11:18:29 AM

Just saw a unicorn, folks...

A woman wearing shiny, tight, black leggings... Who actually had the body to pull it off

We make jokes about the smoldering ruin of California, but if that’s a unicorn in your part of SoCal ... things might be more dire than I thought. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 28, 2021, 12:47:58 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 28, 2021, 12:32:19 PM

We make jokes about the smoldering ruin of California, but if that’s a unicorn in your part of SoCal ... things might be more dire than I thought.

No kidding.  In my part of town, soccer mom milfs hitting the store after their gym workouts are quite common, and they're spectacular.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 28, 2021, 12:52:16 PM

perhaps betarhoalphadelta has higher standards for spectacular

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 28, 2021, 12:52:57 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 28, 2021, 12:52:16 PM

perhaps betarhoalphadelta has higher standards for spectacular

Doubtful

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 28, 2021, 12:56:42 PM

why we need pics

good ones!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 28, 2021, 01:22:00 PM

I should be clear... Leggings and yoga pants are commonplace, and there is a wide variety of women who wear them--plenty who should.

The key word here was "shiny". Usually, the ones who wear the loud and attention-grabbing clothing are almost invariably those who shouldn't. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 28, 2021, 04:57:37 PM

FORE!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 29, 2021, 08:38:51 AM

Boy, the yoga pants are extremely popular around here, and often the ladies are head turning.  I asked the wife if they were super comfortable or something and she said "Not really, they are just a way to show off your assets."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 29, 2021, 08:43:42 AM

More often than not people shouldn't be showing off

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 29, 2021, 09:30:26 AM

Folks around here are pretty young, generally, and young women often look really nice.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 29, 2021, 09:33:50 AM

the young ladies that drive the beverage carts at the course are lookers and they sport those spandex britches when it's chilly

like last night

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 29, 2021, 09:47:30 AM

Friggin Texans and their crap power grid............

SIOUX CITY, Iowa — First, it was a shortage of toilet paper, then Clorox wipes, and lately those tiny ketchup packages. Now there's a shortage of chicken wings!

The shortage is so bad that Bob Roe's Point After is temporarily canceling its normal "Wings Wednesday."


Other restaurants in Siouxland and across the country are facing a similar predicament.

The shortage is being blamed on increased demand for takeout and comfort food during the past year and the devastating winter storms in Texas shrinking the supply.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 29, 2021, 09:52:08 AM

What the industry does to chicken farmers is criminal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 29, 2021, 09:55:02 AM

Need a chicken farmer lobby.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 29, 2021, 09:59:00 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 29, 2021, 09:47:30 AM

Friggin Texans and their crap power grid............

SIOUX CITY, Iowa — First, it was a shortage of toilet paper, then Clorox wipes, and lately those tiny ketchup packages. Now there's a shortage of chicken wings!

The shortage is so bad that Bob Roe's Point After is temporarily canceling its normal "Wings Wednesday."


Other restaurants in Siouxland and across the country are facing a similar predicament.

The shortage is being blamed on increased demand for takeout and comfort food during the past year and the devastating winter storms in Texas shrinking the supply.

how the hell did we Texans cause this you jack wagon

we do enough things to blame us for so leave off the fake crap

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 29, 2021, 10:04:40 AM

how many chickens died in Texas cause youse yokels couldn't keep the power on?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 29, 2021, 10:05:05 AM

In other news............


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/178971210_10219933671114675_3867455965978058992_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=6zhv5G1wMpIAX_pV8e9&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=6762ebae3323853e6e2abb72673d9fe3&oe=60B04392)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 29, 2021, 10:49:02 AM

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration announced Thursday that it will propose a ban on menthol-flavored cigarettes in the United States, putting strain on future cigarette sales for manufacturers in the tobacco industry.

Menthol is the last allowable flavor for cigarettes, according to the FDA, and has been disproportionately been used by youth, people of color and low-income communities.

“With these actions, the FDA will help significantly reduce youth initiation, increase the chances of smoking cessation among current smokers, and address health disparities experienced by communities of color, low-income populations, and LGBTQ+ individuals, all of whom are far more likely to use these tobacco products,” said Acting FDA Commissioner Janet Woodcock, in a press release.

This decision comes after years of deliberation from public health officials in order to help transition smokers to less harmful methods, such as non-combustible products.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 29, 2021, 10:51:13 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 28, 2021, 12:47:58 PM

No kidding.  In my part of town, soccer mom milfs hitting the store after their gym workouts are quite common, and they're spectacular.

hey-hey-hey you shouldn't be using that term,what with your aeiou wife or whatever initials you use

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 29, 2021, 10:52:54 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 29, 2021, 10:49:02 AM

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration announced Thursday that it will propose a ban on menthol-flavored cigarettes in the United States

What about chew?They gonna start in on that.How about they lower taxes so folks won't smoke and drink so much

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 29, 2021, 11:08:21 AM

if menthol cigs are bad, why aren't regular cigs bad?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 29, 2021, 11:11:50 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 29, 2021, 10:49:02 AM

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration announced Thursday that it will propose a ban on menthol-flavored cigarettes in the United States, putting strain on future cigarette sales for manufacturers in the tobacco industry.

Menthol is the last allowable flavor for cigarettes, according to the FDA, and has been disproportionately been used by youth, people of color and low-income communities.

“With these actions, the FDA will help significantly reduce youth initiation, increase the chances of smoking cessation among current smokers, and address health disparities experienced by communities of color, low-income populations, and LGBTQ+ individuals, all of whom are far more likely to use these tobacco products,” said Acting FDA Commissioner Janet Woodcock, in a press release.

This decision comes after years of deliberation from public health officials in order to help transition smokers to less harmful methods, such as non-combustible products.

The FDA is banning Mentols because black people like them? 



(https://data.photofunky.net/output/image/2/9/9/6/299612/photofunky.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 29, 2021, 11:14:58 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 29, 2021, 10:51:13 AM

hey-hey-hey you shouldn't be using that term,what with your aeiou wife or whatever initials you use

Plus the term "soccer mom milfs" is redundant. 

It's like saying the "NFL League" or "MAC Conference." The word is already included in the acronym. 


(https://i.imgur.com/kRsBlCp.jpg?fb)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 29, 2021, 11:18:13 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 29, 2021, 08:38:51 AM

Boy, the yoga pants are extremely popular around here, and often the ladies are head turning.  I asked the wife if they were super comfortable or something and she said "Not really, they are just a way to show off your assets."

I dunno, my wife seems to think they're pretty comfortable. She thinks it's uncouth typically to go out in public in yoga pants or leggings, but that's what she loves to wear around the house in the evenings or on weekends when we're not going anywhere, specifically because they're comfortable. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 29, 2021, 11:25:14 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 29, 2021, 09:47:30 AM

Friggin Texans and their crap power grid............

SIOUX CITY, Iowa — First, it was a shortage of toilet paper, then Clorox wipes, and lately those tiny ketchup packages. Now there's a shortage of chicken wings!

The shortage is so bad that Bob Roe's Point After is temporarily canceling its normal "Wings Wednesday."


Other restaurants in Siouxland and across the country are facing a similar predicament.

The shortage is being blamed on increased demand for takeout and comfort food during the past year and the devastating winter storms in Texas shrinking the supply.

I find the chicken wing market to be very interesting.

Chicken wings used to be throwaway items that nobody could find a market for. They were dirt cheap. I mean, there's not a lot of meat on them, they're hard to eat due to the bones, and a lot of people seem to have a preference for white meat chicken.

At the same time, chicken breast was premium, and usually carried a much higher per-pound price than chicken wings. Chicken breast is incredibly versatile, becoming the protein in basically just about any recipe that needs a cheap protein. 

Enter Buffalo and the chicken wing craze. A market was created out of nowhere based purely on bar food to start.

I remember sometime in about the mid-oughts seeing a story that chicken wing prices had surpassed boneless skinless chicken breast on a per-pound basis, and that being a big thing. Especially since the wings have bones, which are inedible weight, and that wings (because they have skin and bones) are likely less processing cost. 

But it makes sense. To feed someone a meal, you need 1 chicken breast, or 1/2 of the breasts available on a chicken. To feed someone a meal, you probably need 12 chicken wing pieces, or 3 chickens worth of wing pieces. So as wings became more popular, you had a 6x number of chickens needed to be slaughtered for per meal compared to chicken breast. 

So if there is going to be a chicken shortage, the wing market is the first place it would show up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 29, 2021, 11:28:50 AM

You fatties eat too many wings anyway.

Mix in a salad for cryin' out loud.  There ain't no lettuce shortage.

You're welcome.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 29, 2021, 11:37:26 AM

That's what the celery sticks and ranch count towards:  salad.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 29, 2021, 11:41:39 AM

Ed Zachery

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 29, 2021, 11:45:40 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/rCcgnLB.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 29, 2021, 11:49:25 AM

I noticed the black yoga pants thing about 10 years ago - as a trend that was a whole big thing that was spreading fast.
I accompanied some gifted students to a field trip to ASU and felt like a total perv.  EVERY young, hot thing was wearing them and they were quite accentuating. 
This discussion reminded me of my thinking back then that it was a fashion trend meant only for fit women - it wasn't something the large/unsavory would mimic because.....ew.

But no.  That didn't work out. 
Work out....get it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 29, 2021, 11:54:23 AM

There was a brief window in the mid 20-ots where tennis skirts and thong underwear were both in fashion simultaneously, so that every time there was a little gust of wind... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 29, 2021, 01:11:28 PM

Sidney Powell Fights Kraken Sanctions Demand After Dominion Suit (lawandcrime.com) (https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/sidney-powells-lawyers-say-dominion-defamation-defense-is-no-admission-that-kraken-case-was-false-or-non-believable/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 29, 2021, 02:05:39 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 29, 2021, 11:37:26 AM

That's what the celery sticks and ranch count towards:  salad. 

I literally just had some celery/carrot sticks with a 1/4 of my deli sammich - that were consumed proper - over the kitchen sink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 29, 2021, 02:39:42 PM

The only cow in a small town in Ireland stopped giving milk. Then the town folk found they could buy a cow in Scotland quite cheaply. So, they brought the cow over from Scotland . It was absolutely wonderful.
It produced lots of milk every day and everyone was happy.

They bought a bull to mate with the cow to get more cows so they'd never have to worry about their milk supply again. They put the bull in the pasture with the cow but whenever the bull tried to mount the cow, the cow would move away. No matter what approach the bull tried, the cow would move away from the bull and he was never able to do the deed.

The people were very upset and decided to go to the Vet, who was very wise, tell him what was happening and ask his advice. "Whenever the bull tries to mount our cow, she moves away.

If he approaches from the back, she moves forward. When he approaches her from the front, she backs off. If he attempts it from the one side, she walks away to the other side."

The Vet rubbed his chin thoughtfully and pondered this before asking,

"Did you by chance, buy this cow in Scotland ?"

The people were dumbfounded, since no one had ever mentioned that they had brought the cow over from Scotland ..
"You are truly a wise Vet,"  they said.

"How did you know we got the cow from Scotland ?
The Vet replied with a distant look in his eye:

"My wife's from Scotland "

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 29, 2021, 03:55:35 PM

So after buying the wine fridge, we had a wine rack that we were looking to get rid of. Probably could have sold it, but we put out the feelers to see if any of our family/friends wanted it, and found a taker, one of my wife's friends.

So last night I loaded it (66"H x 15"W x 15"D) into the back of the Flex and my wife took it to her office which was a more convenient handoff point.

Well, guess who didn't inform us that they drove a Honda Accord? And guess what car it won't fit into?

Wouldn't it have been good to confirm this previously? :smiley_confused1:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 29, 2021, 04:01:45 PM

Your fault really - in a way,you reasoned they had that figured out.Did you find out if she filled up the car with friends to help carry it?;D Reminds me of Search for the Holy Grail "Gallahad,Lancelot and I are going to crawl......

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 29, 2021, 04:34:24 PM

The funny thing is that my wife was all worried whether or not it would fit in the Flex. Of course it will! Hell, I didn't make a point of it, but it would have fit in her RX350.

We never even thought to ask if he'd known whether it would fit in the car. (Perhaps it's sexist that we didn't think to ask, because he's a dude?)

Apparently he took it apart and got it to fit... Which would sound fine if he'd brought his own tools that would suggest planning had occurred... But he had to borrow a screwdriver from my wife's office to do it...

As Badge would say, PoA...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 29, 2021, 04:36:48 PM

Ed Zachery why I wouldn't be able to have just one vehicle that was a Honda Accord

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 29, 2021, 04:50:40 PM

Over the years I've sold a lot of stuff on Craigslist, Facebook Marketplace, etc.

I always list the dimensions, and tell people what kind of vehicle they'll need to move it.  If it's large and heavy, I always tell them in the ad to bring help, because I'm not going to do it.  And when I confirm a sale by phone or text, I always do the same.

Only once has it worked out weirdly, when a lady showed up to pick up two large dressers I was selling, in a-- you guessed it-- Honda Accord.  When she showed up she said, "Oh, I guess those won't fit."  I was like, "Uhhh, yup."

She said she had a friend with a truck and asked me if I would hold it for her.  I said she could do whatever she wanted with the furniture after she paid me.  So she sort of grudgingly agreed to pay me, and then took off.  Came back a few hours later with a friend with a small SUV and not a truck, and I was skeptical, but sure enough, they fit.  Of course her friend was an even tinier lady than she was, so I ended up helping them load it. 

But surprisingly, that's the only time out of a few dozen that things went weird.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 29, 2021, 04:54:19 PM

I was impressed that I could help a lady friend move a loveseat in my Jeep.  That was the limit, lengthwise, though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 30, 2021, 09:34:58 AM

My grandfather had a knack for making just about anything fit in his little K car and Plymouth Acclaim.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 30, 2021, 09:39:30 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on April 30, 2021, 09:34:58 AM

My grandfather had a knack for making just about anything fit in his little K car and Plymouth Acclaim.

A true MOPAR man then, it seems? :)

My grandfather loved Chryslers.  He loved the BIG luxury Chryslers, more specifically.  Whatever was the biggest Chrysler equivalent to the biggest Cadillac being made, that's what he'd drive.  Several years worth of Chrysler 5th Avenues, and then a bunch of other ones that I don't recall.  Always with the largest engine, too, of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 30, 2021, 09:42:18 AM

The wife tells me about trips to the beach she took with her four kids in an Austin Mini back in the day, loaded to the gills, in France, the old Cooper.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2021, 09:57:23 AM

the neighbors (mom, and two boys) and my mother and my brother and myself would pile into a VW Bug back in the 60's to drive 30 minutes to the sand pit for some good swimming and sunbathing

had to blow up the inflatables on-site 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 30, 2021, 10:36:25 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 30, 2021, 09:39:30 AM

A true MOPAR man then, it seems? :)

My grandfather loved Chryslers.  He loved the BIG luxury Chryslers, more specifically.  Whatever was the biggest Chrysler equivalent to the biggest Cadillac being made, that's what he'd drive.  Several years worth of Chrysler 5th Avenues, and then a bunch of other ones that I don't recall.  Always with the largest engine, too, of course.

On top of the rolling beer cans with 2-stroke engines, the only trucks he bought for most of his life were Dodges. Also, my parents bought Dodges in my lifetime. So I guess it might be said we're a Mopar famiily ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2021, 03:03:57 PM

headed to Lincoln to eat, drink, and watch college sports

Enjoy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 30, 2021, 03:15:06 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 30, 2021, 03:03:57 PM

headed to Lincoln to eat, drink, and watch college sports

Enjoy

are you on food stamps?

do you ever work?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 30, 2021, 05:59:10 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on April 30, 2021, 10:36:25 AM

On top of the rolling beer cans with 2-stroke engines, the only trucks he bought for most of his life were Dodges. Also, my parents bought Dodges in my lifetime. So I guess it might be said we're a Mopar famiily ;)

Buddy of mine bought an old used New Yorker back in the day.Could seat 6 guys in there drinking a beer and no one touched elbows on the way to the game

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 30, 2021, 06:00:31 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 30, 2021, 03:15:06 PM

are you on food stamps?

do you ever work?

Are you the resident hausfrau?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 30, 2021, 06:06:37 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 29, 2021, 04:50:40 PM

  Of course her friend was an even tinier lady than she was, so I ended up helping them load it. 

But surprisingly, that's the only time out of a few dozen that things went weird.

well bless your mean,capitalistic,sexist pigdog heart

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 30, 2021, 06:34:19 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 30, 2021, 06:00:31 PM

Are you the resident hausfrau?

as I posted before I dont know if there's a such a thing as reincarnation but if there is I want to come back as him

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 30, 2021, 09:07:06 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 30, 2021, 06:00:31 PM

Are you the resident hausfrau?

(https://i.imgur.com/Pu60wbu.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 30, 2021, 09:27:32 PM

i used to play pranks on a guy at work.. one of my best friends ever, and a genuinely likeable guy... he never met anyone who wasn't his friend within 5 minutes of meeting.  he tried and tried to catch me in a good one but never did.  

he drove quite a distance to work- almost 150miles round trip.  he didn't mind it, and he bought a small two door accord getting 60mpg or so to do it.  he wanted to take a bar table home with him and instead of driving his jeep, his big diesel truck, or his ram1500 (he had even more to choose from but that isn't the point) he drove the accord.  

we flipped the front passenger seat forward and started prying that thing in there.  he decided to go to the other side to assist.  as soon as he was looking elsewhere i put a knee into the back of the folding seat and twist-pushed the thing into the tiny back seat... the seat had to remain forward- the catch: it had a sunroof and it was open.. I made sure and aimed for the open sunroof as I made this maneuver.... now in my defense i figured he'd see the part sticking out of the roof- but as it was and as i twisted it the thing rested completely inside.  

he drove the truck the next day. 

i asked him if he had any trouble getting the table out and he said "it's still in the damn thing... well... half of it anyway."... he just abandoned effort and drove the truck... the next evening he called frustrated saying he couldn't even fit in there enough to get to the screws to disassemble it in the car and take it out in parts... he was pretty mad.  I asked him about the sunroof and he didn't understand what I meant.  he figured it out the next day and was less than pleased when he did... 

i'm real good at shoving big things in small places.  I don't mean that how some of y'all gonna take that.. i mean it in terms of embark... i've packed out all kinds of things from simple crates to sea-board containers, to load-out of payloads on wide body birds and have a gift for making it fit.  

weird gift, huh? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 30, 2021, 09:38:52 PM

Sounds like you're probably pretty good at Tetris.

I always was.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 01, 2021, 11:16:40 AM

https://www.facebook.com/NerdsOfTheFandoms/posts/1437644316587490?__cft__[0]=AZW3G3yswxFx5FGltIClCHpg-J2C8v0-zUE2GHktlBBx9wCkkk8BCdceFmi2UMPYXsqOpdnIcHRcgTcxOhQ1FR2QnUaRra34E8y-L1nyXYbmH175fLhe6mEwLNNFpAAFKdxsbFjsNb9E3-adiblJyL7CB6vZsQLRVecbybKY5Y9eqizr-1nvvKBJOCjXxsGgq7JXSZMf7Kt6YPBhX9qYWD9B&__tn__=%2CO*F

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 01, 2021, 04:10:37 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/J8q0Jfk.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 01, 2021, 04:13:10 PM

2010 Chevrolet Corvette - 10-108174 | Corvettes for Sale, classic, vintage, and late model at Buyavette® - Atlanta, Georgia (https://buyavette.com/inventory/25697/view/10-108174/Atlanta-GA/2010-Chevrolet-Corvette)

I'm thinking about it, 18 K miles, manual, Grand Sport 2 LT.

(https://i.imgur.com/J6G3lcu.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 01, 2021, 05:02:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 01, 2021, 04:13:10 PM

2010 Chevrolet Corvette - 10-108174 | Corvettes for Sale, classic, vintage, and late model at Buyavette® - Atlanta, Georgia (https://buyavette.com/inventory/25697/view/10-108174/Atlanta-GA/2010-Chevrolet-Corvette)

I'm thinking about it, 18 K miles, manual, Grand Sport 2 LT.

(https://i.imgur.com/J6G3lcu.jpg)

A little Whipple twin screw on that thing and... whoa... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 01, 2021, 05:34:32 PM

436 hp is enough for me ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 01, 2021, 05:48:41 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on May 01, 2021, 05:02:13 PM

A little Whipple twin screw on that thing and... whoa...

Idk what that means, but it probably deserves a language warning....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 01, 2021, 06:34:44 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 01, 2021, 05:34:32 PM

436 hp is enough for me ...

Guy I know, a retired navy chief, has an '11 I think it is.. it may be a '10 like that one.. LS6 as that one you posted has.  He slapped the Whipple on it as he intended to track it... his peers at the track had told him "it was what was meant for that car" in terms of performance and not only rwhp... the transmission, gear ratio... everything is complimented by it.  

I think he said he's around 630hp and 450tq, but I may be wrong.  He's all smiles about that thing.  Says "it's a car I can grow into" as opposed to reducing everything to lack of mistakes lapping (road racing... BSR in Winchester Va/WV).  The car has more than he's willing to push it to.  That's a first for him, and I was surprised to hear him say it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on May 01, 2021, 07:55:27 PM

Damn, my Derby bets had such promise...  impressive run by the winner.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 01, 2021, 09:05:42 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 01, 2021, 05:48:41 PM

Idk what that means, but it probably deserves a language warning....

Turbocharging, I think.  A lot more power.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 01, 2021, 10:13:45 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 01, 2021, 09:05:42 PM

Turbocharging, I think.  A lot more power. 

https://store.custombuiltmotors.com/power-adders/whipple-ls1-ls2-ls6-48-53-60-23l-supercharger-tuner-kit-non-emissions.html

(https://store.custombuiltmotors.com/power-adders/images/Whip-3.jpg)
incredibly easy to install- literally can be done in a day.  every single thing comes with it and the only 'hairy' part about the install (and i'm not certain it's required on this kit) is tapping the snout of the crank, and even that can be done at home with a drill and a huge set of jewels.  

the chief i mentioned went with another camshaft too which brought his powerband into the range for the track- and even that is fairly simple on the LS6 and can be done without lifting heads.  

when it's done it looks stock to someone who wouldn't know.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 01, 2021, 10:16:03 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on May 01, 2021, 07:55:27 PM

Damn, my Derby bets had such promise...  impressive run by the winner.

that was as spectacular a finish as I can recall of recent years!  Of the four leaders, it could have been any of them in the last 100', and either of two in the last 20'.  

that trainer has 7 wins, and 4 of them came with a horse that cost $25k or less.  i'm guessing he knows what he's doing, huh? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 02, 2021, 09:03:42 AM

CDC Now Recommends Wearing A Seat Belt Even When You’re Outside The Car | The Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/car-manufacturers-now-recommend-wearing-a-seatbelt-even-when-youre-outside-the-car)

(https://i.imgur.com/6PvpJcm.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2021, 09:22:22 AM

I personally would not add more power to that Vette, it's just me I suppose.  For one thing, it already struggles to get its power to the ground from start.  You can end up with an undrivable beast, instead of something fun to drive, and that makes the right noises.  A turbo tends to mask exhaust notes to some degree unless you get into the exhaust as well.

In any event, I'm leaning away from it, we just don't drive much as it is, I'm not sure it makes sense given where we live to get a second car.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 02, 2021, 09:32:37 AM

The wife now wants a Volvo XC60. I'm looking at the R Design now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 02, 2021, 11:13:41 AM

Convergence... 

The kids 21st was Friday.  We're going out and coughing up for dinner for her and her friends tonight.  Of course they pick the most expensive place on the island.  

Full stop.

It's quickly turned temperature here and all these gals are anxious to slip into two piece suits. 

Full stop. 

Most the kids friends are also in the 20-22yo range, and have converged here at the house for pool time and drinks.  Yes, drinks, at 1100a on a Sunday morning.

Full stop. 

I have graduated to dirty old man status, as laughingly told by my wife, as I mentioned these girls as I recall them are fully developed now and are on full display.  

Crap... maybe she's right?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2021, 11:19:31 AM

It is impossible not to "look" at young females "dressed" alluringly.  That's probably a good thing.

I have managed to walk a couple miles a day now, with frequent stops.  When your ticker is not ticking properly, it really really slows you down.  I feel like an old man.

I'm ready to get this fixed, doctor's appt May 11, for review.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 02, 2021, 11:34:46 AM

The latest on Bidens huge tax hike he is purposing

He wants to dramatically increase corporate taxes so to protect the US from companies leaving he is pushing the world to also increase corporate taxes

good luck with that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2021, 12:10:50 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 02, 2021, 11:34:46 AM

He wants to dramatically increase corporate taxes so to protect the US from companies leaving he is pushing the world to also increase corporate taxes

It is a partial roll back, we survived with a nominal corporate tax rate of 35% not long ago.  They may compromise at 25% when it's said and done.  Corporate tax revenues are only about a tenth of all Federal tax revenues, so it doesn't raise much money relatively, and it's an expense corporations pass on to their customers.

It likely is less important than changes, if any, in how companies deduct expenses for various and sundry.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2021, 12:34:19 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/1ufevMs.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 02, 2021, 01:38:26 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 02, 2021, 11:19:31 AM

It is impossible not to "look" at young females "dressed" alluringly.  That's probably a good thing.

I have managed to walk a couple miles a day now, with frequent stops.  When your ticker is not ticking properly, it really really slows you down.  I feel like an old man.

I'm ready to get this fixed, doctor's appt May 11, for review.

Good luck, CD.

As an aside, one of my good friends that I mentioned having left SoCal (he returned to Indianapolis) has had a rough couple of months. His wife left him, and days later he was in the hospital with a heart issue. Required atrial valve replacement. Open-heart surgery for him. And he's only 40...

He said that the run-up to that was really difficult. He was getting extraordinarily fatigued, just feeling terrible and didn't have a clue why, and it got so bad that when he got checked out they admitted him. 

Well, a couple months have passed since the surgery, and he says he feels like a teenager again. 

So hang on... Your procedure is MUCH less invasive and should have a much shorter recovery time... Hoping you're back to long walks in no time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 02, 2021, 02:40:12 PM

https://twitter.com/TheBenNatan/status/1388606353023946753?s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2021, 03:41:25 PM

Yeah, my procedure is pretty simple really, fish a set of catheters up my femoral into the heart and cauterize the rim of the atrial valve.  I am very grateful to have this option, without it, I'd have aged 30 years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 02, 2021, 09:14:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 01, 2021, 05:34:32 PM

436 hp is enough for me ...

dual mode exhaust

nice
I'm looking for the same vehicle, but the automatic tranny in the coupe not the convert

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 03, 2021, 08:02:37 AM

Two Mafia hitmen are walking deep into a forest in the middle of the night.

One of them says to the other, "I gotta admit I'm scared out here".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2021, 09:23:53 AM

When your heart is less efficient for whatever reason, your overall quality of life really declines, like becoming an old man "over night".  Take care of it, you depend on it, a lot.

It's not known what leads to flutter/fibrillation apparently, an electrical malfunction caused by ... unknown.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 03, 2021, 10:15:24 AM

Another mass shooting in Chicago. These shooters really suck at shooting.

5 shot in Chicago's Near West Side neighborhood, police say - Chicago Tribune (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-chicago-5-people-shot-20210503-4n2q7vu5mfa33i5y72gl6pqbpa-story.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 03, 2021, 10:34:37 AM

No arrests had been made. Police did not release a detailed description of the shooter or shooters.

Hmm anyone fancy a guess why?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2021, 10:50:53 AM

If it was a drive by, they well might have no description from  anyone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 03, 2021, 10:51:25 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on May 03, 2021, 10:34:37 AM

No arrests had been made. Police did not release a detailed description of the shooter or shooters.

Hmm anyone fancy a guess why?

now you sound like me

how flattering

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 03, 2021, 02:48:26 PM

Anyone have experience with WiFi light bulbs?

I have WiFi outlets that I absolutely love. Two of the lights in my living room are hooked up and can be turned on and off with an app. I use two more for the Christmas tree and outdoor Christmas lights during that season, which is also great. The tree can be turned on and off without having to go reach under it and plug/unplug, and the outdoor lights are on timers so it's all automated by the app. The outlets have been rock solid for a couple years of ownership.

However, the same isn't true for my WiFi light bulb that is used above my front door. I use that also with a timer so it can be on ~8 hours daily in the summer or >12 hours daily in the winter, depending on the sun. I can't remember turn the switch on and off regularly, so automation is great. 

The problem is that the fixture above the front door is enclosed by glass and metal. The WiFi bulb, unlike the outlets, has all the electronics in its base where it plugs into the light socket and then has a 10W LED above it (equivalent lumens to 75W incandescent). I have trouble keeping these things alive more than 6 months or so. I suspect having the electronics plus LED in an enclosed environment is just cooking them to death. Because there is no outlet feeding them, I have to use the smart bulb as well--I have no convenient way to wire up a smart outlet.

They're not horribly expensive... ~$10 each last time I bought them. But that's not nothing, and having to go out there every 6 months on the ladder and replace the bulb is annoying. 

So I'm wondering if anyone has messed around with these and found more reliable options? I'd much rather buy something better (even for more money) if it means not having to replace it often.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 03, 2021, 03:08:58 PM

https://www.amazon.com/Switches-Outlets-Control-Compatible-Automation/dp/B082WVSRNX

get the control out of the bulb and into the switch.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 03, 2021, 03:11:58 PM

I have a light switch - Z wave

seems to work fine

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 03, 2021, 03:27:08 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on May 03, 2021, 03:08:58 PM

https://www.amazon.com/Switches-Outlets-Control-Compatible-Automation/dp/B082WVSRNX

get the control out of the bulb and into the switch. 

Yeah, that might be the answer, and I'll have no problem installing it. Just annoying because it's a rental. 

But at least it's a one-time deal. And then a standard LED bulb in the fixture will last longer, I'm sure. 

Quote from: FearlessF on May 03, 2021, 03:11:58 PM

I have a light switch - Z wave

seems to work fine

Might look at that as well. It's a double switch so that's a little more, with the second one controlling an outlet in the room. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 03, 2021, 09:08:39 PM

I show a pic of my double switch, but it's not appealing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 03, 2021, 10:00:21 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-0/p526x296/181741247_6165521550132151_6625689742406664880_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=3wrkArPQ9NQAX-FztPy&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=34bb25fd1294f8cc87463e1774d8591f&oe=60B5896B)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 03, 2021, 10:08:19 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on May 03, 2021, 10:34:37 AM

No arrests had been made. Police did not release a detailed description of the shooter or shooters.

Hmm anyone fancy a guess why?

Because Hillary eats babies, right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 04, 2021, 09:09:50 AM

Fancy a guess?Pretty simple ,not sure how that sent you spiraling

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 04, 2021, 09:18:36 AM

I can imagine no one might see the shooter(s) very well in a drive by, they could get some car recognition perhaps, you don't expect this, generally speaking, shots ring out and I'd be diving for the ground.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 04, 2021, 09:41:27 AM

The video surveillance should help. There are cameras everywhere in that city now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 04, 2021, 09:46:39 AM

I see a fair number of cars with blacked out windows, I think they are illegal here, but they happen.  If I were doing a drive by, I'd obscure my tax number and have blacked out windows.

Shoot and scoot.

They might get "black SUV, maybe a Ford, or Chevy", as if.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 04, 2021, 09:52:32 AM

A drive by with the windows up? 

Highly unorthodox, CD. But it just might work. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 04, 2021, 10:01:10 AM

Roll one down to shoot of course, then roll up and scoot.  I doubt anyone standing by would get much of a look at the shooter, and they likely would have a vague vehicle description.

Of course, I've never tried this.  yet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 04, 2021, 10:25:11 AM

Cincy, just give in to the fact that it's a liberal media conspiracy!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 04, 2021, 10:30:52 AM

This is likely just another crime that will never be solved. There are so many.

It's also 99.9999% likely that the victims knew the shooter, and vice versa.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 04, 2021, 10:34:54 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 04, 2021, 10:25:11 AM

Cincy, just give in to the fact that it's a liberal media conspiracy!!!

If the police provided no ID on the shooters, it has naught to do with the media.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 04, 2021, 12:01:14 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 04, 2021, 10:34:54 AM

If the police provided no ID on the shooters, it has naught to do with the media.

Tell that to the guys posting this borderline racist shit every day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 04, 2021, 12:03:07 PM

I probably missed the "borderline racist S" here, could you reference it please?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 04, 2021, 12:05:05 PM

Chicago police are investigating a shooting that left five people injured late Sunday in the Near West Side neighborhood.

Officers were called to the 2100 block of West Adams Street about 11:10 p.m. for a report of a drive-by shooting. A group of people had been standing outside when a gray Audi SUV with three people inside drove past and at least one of the occupants opened fire. It wasn’t immediately clear whether authorities suspected more than one shooter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 04, 2021, 12:07:08 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on May 03, 2021, 10:34:37 AM

No arrests had been made. Police did not release a detailed description of the shooter or shooters.

Hmm anyone fancy a guess why?

He's almost giddy at what he thinks the answer is.  And if it's not a shot at the liberal media, then it's certainly racist. 
.
But I know, I know, I'm just an extremist, alarmist libotard who curses too much, gets frustrated at people who can't complete an obvious thought, and am intermittenly guilty of clogging the echo chamber.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 04, 2021, 12:08:41 PM

I don't see anything racist there, and it's not a shot at the media, as I explained clearly earlier.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 04, 2021, 12:13:51 PM

I don't know the area, but it's a simple fact that most drive by shootings are gang related and often perpetrated by blacks on blacks.  I looked up a school nearby, Dett Elementary, which is 90% black, so if someone infers the shooters and victims are black, that is a reasonable supposition, and not racist.

I know some see racism behind every tree of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 04, 2021, 12:16:12 PM

This is not gun violence. It's gang violence. Big difference.

I've never met a violent gun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 04, 2021, 12:24:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 04, 2021, 12:08:41 PM

I don't see anything racist there, and it's not a shot at the media, as I explained clearly earlier.

Subtext, CD. 

I read 320's claim as if it had been a white shooter, the media would have said that, but because it's [likely in that neighborhood] a black shooter, that they didn't. 

I realize that's me reading into it, and not what he said, claimed, or [necessarily] inferred. But clearly OAM got the same message I did.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 04, 2021, 12:31:19 PM

This crap has to stop.

Timothy Nielsen Charged With Attempted Murder For Plowing Vehicle Into Woman Who Was Picnicking In Logan Square (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/timothy-nielsen-charged-with-attempted-murder-for-plowing-vehicle-into-woman-who-was-picnicking-in-logan-square/ar-BB1gjCEp?ocid=uxbndlbing)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 04, 2021, 12:32:56 PM

I hope they catch this one too.


Asian woman attacked with hammer in NYC's Times Square | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/asian-woman-attacked-hammer-times-square-nyc)


The people doing this stuff need to be sent to hell.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 04, 2021, 12:36:50 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 04, 2021, 12:24:35 PM

Subtext, CD.

I read 320's claim as if it had been a white shooter, the media would have said that, but because it's [likely in that neighborhood] a black shooter, that they didn't.

I realize that's me reading into it, and not what he said, claimed, or [necessarily] inferred. But clearly OAM got the same message I did.

The POLICE are the ones who said they had no description.  It's not the media.  And as I stated, it is very likely no one saw the shooter(s).

The area appears to be mostly black, but that isn't much of a description.  It's not racist to say they were probably black.  That doesn't help find the shooter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 04, 2021, 12:37:05 PM

Im right here guys

Just to remove the mystery

My comment was playing off a comment made by Mr Nubbz

and yes I was inferring a black shooter

its Chicago no big deal there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 04, 2021, 01:34:15 PM

https://morethanjustparks.com/ (https://morethanjustparks.com/)

More than Just Parks was created to be the best online resource for everything National Parks and Public Lands. They create visually stunning national park guides, award-winning short films, breathtaking photos, and insightful tips to make your next national park trip the best.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 04, 2021, 01:40:33 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 04, 2021, 01:34:15 PM

https://morethanjustparks.com/ (https://morethanjustparks.com/)

More than Just Parks was created to be the best online resource for everything National Parks and Public Lands. They create visually stunning national park guides, award-winning short films, breathtaking photos, and insightful tips to make your next national park trip the best.

kinda random there dont you think

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 04, 2021, 01:42:23 PM

well, the current topic wasn't interesting or helpful

you're welcome

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 04, 2021, 01:44:36 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 04, 2021, 01:34:15 PM

https://morethanjustparks.com/ (https://morethanjustparks.com/)

More than Just Parks was created to be the best online resource for everything National Parks and Public Lands. They create visually stunning national park guides, award-winning short films, breathtaking photos, and insightful tips to make your next national park trip the best.

Looks like they still have a lot of work to do on their site. The map isn't even up and running yet. 
It is a full time job to keep track of all of the stuff like this that is nearby. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 04, 2021, 01:48:23 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 04, 2021, 01:42:23 PM

well, the current topic wasn't interesting or helpful

you're welcome

what happened to the average head weighs 8 pounds or the dogs can smell fear topics

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 04, 2021, 02:20:42 PM

Starting to get kinda bummed about going up North in a month. I'm thinking we made a mistake buying a boat for up there. I really like it here.


But, as of this past Sunday I'm a grandpa, so I guess I gotta go, eh?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 04, 2021, 02:21:23 PM

nothing, both much better topics than others

I just happen to know some folks here appreciate the National Parks

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 04, 2021, 02:21:50 PM

Corngrats Grandpa!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 04, 2021, 02:21:57 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 04, 2021, 02:20:42 PM

Starting to get kinda bummed about going up North in a month. I'm thinking we made a mistake buying a boat for up there. I really like it here.


But, as of this past Sunday I'm a grandpa, so I guess I gotta go, eh?

Shoot, I'm planning on moving even further South when I have the chance.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 04, 2021, 03:03:34 PM

Quote from: utee94 on May 04, 2021, 02:21:57 PM

Shoot, I'm planning on moving even further South when I have the chance. 

Joining the boarder patrol?

Good they need your help

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 04, 2021, 03:53:53 PM

No sir on the border patrol.

I'll be moving more... tropical.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 04, 2021, 04:06:01 PM

Port Mansfield???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 04, 2021, 04:14:41 PM

Is Port Mansfield in Belize??? :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 04, 2021, 04:17:46 PM

Quote from: utee94 on May 04, 2021, 04:14:41 PM

Is Port Mansfield in Belize??? :)

I've researched faking my own death for the insurance money, and it's a lot harder than it looks...

...but if you're gonna try to pull that off, you probably want to go to a country that doesn't extradite to the US.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 04, 2021, 04:20:38 PM

Port Isabel?

get a gig at SpaceX

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 04, 2021, 04:22:12 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 04, 2021, 04:17:46 PM

I've researched faking my own death for the insurance money, and it's a lot harder than it looks...

...but if you're gonna try to pull that off, you probably want to go to a country that doesn't extradite to the US.

So, The Republic of Florida then?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 04, 2021, 04:27:50 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 04, 2021, 04:22:12 PM

So, The Republic of Florida then?

Yeah... no...

Provo, Spain?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 04, 2021, 04:28:46 PM

FORE!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 04, 2021, 04:49:17 PM

THREE

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 04, 2021, 04:53:49 PM

Quote from: utee94 on May 04, 2021, 02:21:57 PM

Shoot, I'm planning on moving even further South when I have the chance. 

I'm sure there are message boards down in Belize about Gringos at the Gates

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 04, 2021, 04:55:46 PM

I visited Belize, sort of.  We did an interesting glass bottomed boat tour there.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 04, 2021, 04:56:17 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 04, 2021, 04:06:01 PM

Port Mansfield???

Great fishing


Been there several times

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 04, 2021, 04:56:39 PM

I've vacationed in Belize.  It's nice.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 04, 2021, 04:58:10 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-RbiJxRZws&ab_channel=russellrentfro

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 04, 2021, 04:58:41 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B49ZY0lvXrQ&ab_channel=russellrentfro

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 04, 2021, 05:04:14 PM

I thought I'd like to go back, but we were off a cruise ship, and real visitation was impractical.  Our idea of cruises is to get something of a brief experience in a place and decide where we'd like to return "for real" later.

We took a cruise out of Barcelona and stayed three nights in the city afterward.  We signed up for a bus tour of the city off the boat and then they dropped us with our luggage at our hotel, so it was hardly more than cab fare would have been.  Nice hotel, near the beach.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 04, 2021, 05:20:16 PM

Jerry Jeff Walker is my favorite country singer of all time.  I've watched him perform live nearly countless times. He knew my dad because of KOKE-FM radio and I met him several times over the years.  Sadly he passed away last year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 04, 2021, 09:59:59 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 04, 2021, 04:22:12 PM

So, The Republic of Florida then?

Can you imagine the upkeep in bribing Florida authorities once they figured it out? Otherwise, they'd just sell you back. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 05, 2021, 12:07:14 PM

Cool looking new MARTA cars slated to roll out over the next few years.  They are supposed to upgrade and rebuild some of the stations, which would help some as well, but it gets expensive.

(https://i.imgur.com/V7e6F0I.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 05, 2021, 01:06:18 PM

Build nicer train stations:  done.
Build some housing for the homeless: hell no!
.
Homeless:  uses the train stations as housing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 05, 2021, 01:10:27 PM

problem solved

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 05, 2021, 01:11:51 PM

The city of course builds shelters for the homeless, and low income housing, a lot of it.  But, MARTA money is generated by MARTA operations, and some Federal funding (no state).  And the homeless don't use the stations as shelters.  Many of the homeless don't want to live in a shelter, not all of course.

The Atlanta Mission does a credible job on a difficult problem, I donate to them regularly.

We still have too many homeless of course, it's distressing.  I was surprised how much I saw in DC of folks living in tents.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 05, 2021, 01:18:48 PM

Do you think neighborhoods of tiny houses (for the homeless) would be a bad idea?  A little bit of privacy, a little bit of autonomy.  Maybe?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 05, 2021, 01:28:10 PM

be a very good idea, especially if some folks wanted to donate the $$$ and time and land to make it happen

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 05, 2021, 02:22:57 PM

The homeless have options today already they often choose not to use.  Some are mentally deranged obviously, and won't take advantage of much of anything offered.

Others prefer living in a tent on their own somewhere.  And if you provide some accommodation that do use, you have the going expense of maintenance.

I have explored the problem with some folks locally who deal directly with the homeless, and basically its intractable, in their opinion, though they do provide useful services for those who want them, often people temporarily out of options.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 05, 2021, 02:28:49 PM

Just barebones dormitory housing constructed from flame retardant materials. No bells and whistles such as electricity and running water, just a roof over your head, a mailing address, and a place to sleep and keep your stuff. 

It would keep folks off of the streets, without being desirable enough to be a permanent solution if you have other options. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 05, 2021, 02:32:18 PM

I think many/most of the unsheltered homeless on the streets prefer the streets and their own tent or whatever to some concrete box.

And of course, the majority, I'm told, of homeless sleep in shelters as it is.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 05, 2021, 02:33:48 PM

The barebones dormitories would be optional, not mandatory 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 05, 2021, 02:37:22 PM

everything is optional, even taxes, for the homeless

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 05, 2021, 02:37:34 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-0/p526x296/182579169_10224143955173846_1517417120053219191_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=amaV5Esfj5cAX-QawnS&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=5e586ab7eaed82f92c47e7347b893938&oe=60B8151E)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 05, 2021, 02:41:25 PM

Some are just down on their luck and want a way to get back onto their feet, which would include having a mailing address and a safe place to crash. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 05, 2021, 03:07:04 PM

Those down on their luck use the shelters now.  I'm told the shelters are often only half full as folks live in tents just down the street.  Bear in mind that many are on drugs and not really "there" mentally. There is no lack of shelter around here, some folks don't like them.  The can use them for dinner, and can get a shower there usually.

One thing they need is showers, and clean clothes.  I'm impressed with the job the Atlanta Mission does.


Homeless Shelter in Atlanta - Atlanta Mission | Hope Lives Here (https://atlantamission.org/?_vsrefdom=cmgd&gclid=CjwKCAjwhMmEBhBwEiwAXwFoEZmbV-QZSBQkfyKk6X0RJ9UaITtfvFFTdFTr4l3Q5DhxTWOwsQPIMxoCaYsQAvD_BwE)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 05, 2021, 03:14:41 PM

The shelters are bullshit. A bunch of cots in a singular room, where people can steal your stuff and attack you in your sleep. I would rather take my chances in a tent as well. 

My idea gives everyone their own space, that they can lock and get some peace and quiet. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 05, 2021, 03:43:54 PM

Your first 14 days on campus you will be quarantined. You will be isolated to a dorm room with an individual bathroom and shower stalls. Meals will be delivered to your room during this time. You will not be eligible to leave and return to campus during the first 14 days with the exception of medical necessity.

• Health Checks – Twice a day, a staff member will check your temperature and perform a health screening.

• You are expected to participate in testing for COVID-19 and tuberculosis. This testing is provided free of charge by community partners and a staff member will transport and escort you to the testing site.


The above are requirements at the Atlanta Mission for new participants.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 05, 2021, 03:48:57 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 05, 2021, 03:14:41 PM

The shelters are bullshit. A bunch of cots in a singular room, where people can steal your stuff and attack you in your sleep. I would rather take my chances in a tent as well.

My idea gives everyone their own space, that they can lock and get some peace and quiet.

I agree.  My idea of tiny houses just takes it further.  Having your own space is a big deal, that's why many choose a tent out in the elements over a communal home.  

They'd get trashed, but they'd be bare-bones structures, but private and free-standing.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 05, 2021, 03:52:29 PM

When you have an ongoing, consistent % of the population without housing, it makes me think the term "down on their luck" is BS and it's a major, systemic problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 05, 2021, 03:58:35 PM

Understanding Atlanta's Homeless Count (midtownatl.com) (https://www.midtownatl.com/about/news-center/post/homeless-point-in-time-count#:~:text=Data collection in 2020 found,Atlanta's 130 square-mile footprint.)

It may not always seem apparent, but progress is being made. While nationally homelessness is trending upward and other cities have seen sharp increases in recent years, the City of Atlanta has seen a 25 percent decrease since 2015.

On January 27, 2020, 3,240 homeless people were counted within city limits, 939 of whom were unsheltered (found to be outside or in cars). 

For perspective, the city population is around 510,000.  So, in this city at least, it's a small percentage.  And yes, some of them are "down on their luck" in a temporary situation where they need a hand up and then can recover normally.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 05, 2021, 04:13:30 PM

There are a wide range of homeless people. Some are hopeless junkies that have no goal beyond staying high until they die, but others are just regular people. Hell, I've technically been homeless twice when I was between apartments for month, and you'd have never known it unless I told you. I was employed full time, I had a car, a PO box and a storage unit. Nobody at work knew. I just went on about my life as normal. For sleep, I would sneak into a campground after dark and sleep in my car. Then I'd use their shower in the morning, and show up to work on time and freshly showered. No one suspected a thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 05, 2021, 04:42:58 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 05, 2021, 04:13:30 PM

There are a wide range of homeless people. Some are hopeless junkies that have no goal beyond staying high until they die, but others are just regular people. Hell, I've technically been homeless twice when I was between apartments for month, and you'd have never known it unless I told you. I was employed full time, I had a car, a PO box and a storage unit. Nobody at work knew. I just went on about my life as normal. For sleep, I would sneak into a campground after dark and sleep in my car. Then I'd use their shower in the morning, and show up to work on time and freshly showered. No one suspected a thing.

For sure. But a job and food security are really important, and you had those.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 05, 2021, 04:54:10 PM

Fearless Im tired of this topic could you please change it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on May 05, 2021, 05:13:11 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 05, 2021, 03:52:29 PM

When you have an ongoing, consistent % of the population without housing, it makes me think the term "down on their luck" is BS and it's a major, systemic problem.

From my almost daily interaction with the homeless in my own neighborhood, nearly every tough-love conversation regarding the growing homelessness problem in especially our Pacific Coast cities should begin and end with a reality check regarding their widespread drug abuse. To quote a certain homeless advocacy group: “Substance abuse is well documented as a contributor to homelessness, but it’s also established as a byproduct created by the trauma of living on the streets.“

Housing is one piece of discussing the puzzle but unfortunately, in too many cases, moving a homeless addict into housing services simply means their glass pipes, perc 40s, coke grinders, and drug debts move from the sidewalks and continue indoors.

Drugs play central role to the major, systemic problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 05, 2021, 05:24:57 PM

Anyone else hoping to strike it rich farming Chia?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 05, 2021, 05:36:31 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 05, 2021, 04:42:58 PM

For sure. But a job and food security are really important, and you had those.

Yeah that's what I'm getting at. A lot of folks think that all homeless people are like the junkies in Skid Row, and they propose solutions accordingly.

The reality is that there is a wide range. Some are employed, but need a month or two without the burden of rent in order to get their finances in order. Others are willing and able to work, but lost their job for whatever reason and need a safety net while they look for a new job.

I don't think a shelter that resembles the county jail is a very good "one size fits all" solution, but that's what we have.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 05, 2021, 05:58:04 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 05, 2021, 04:54:10 PM

Fearless Im tired of this topic could you please change it

Screw Golf Boy. I got this.


Dane County convenes first meeting of task force to help prevent deaths from suicide, drug overdose and alcoholism | Local Government | madison.com


 (https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/dane-county-convenes-first-meeting-of-task-force-to-help-prevent-deaths-from-suicide-drug/article_4e32d843-5784-59d9-9063-7fa4c310685e.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1)Maybe loosen the lockdown, "leaders".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 05, 2021, 06:17:03 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 05, 2021, 05:58:04 PM

Screw Golf Boy. I got this.

How do you know what he does with his putter?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 05, 2021, 06:24:39 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 05, 2021, 05:58:04 PM

Screw Golf Boy. I got this.


Dane County convenes first meeting of task force to help prevent deaths from suicide, drug overdose and alcoholism | Local Government | madison.com


 (https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/dane-county-convenes-first-meeting-of-task-force-to-help-prevent-deaths-from-suicide-drug/article_4e32d843-5784-59d9-9063-7fa4c310685e.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1)Maybe loosen the lockdown, "leaders".

drugstore is plum out of razor blades

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 05, 2021, 06:32:17 PM

"suicide prevention" is kind of a funny concept.

The only person that has the ability to prevent it is the victim.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 05, 2021, 09:52:13 PM

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0oJ1MmUUAMynJO?format=jpg&name=medium)


Yeah, we should probably let our basketball team sit this one out. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on May 05, 2021, 09:57:17 PM

We shall not let people say black lives matter!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 05, 2021, 09:58:53 PM

F@&#! 

Guess I'm gonna be doing some plumbing tomorrow. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 05, 2021, 11:03:22 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on May 05, 2021, 09:57:17 PM

We shall not let people say black lives matter!

I think we should present a united team where all lives matter and keep race remarks out of it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on May 06, 2021, 12:14:51 AM

This isn't new.  Olympics don't allow and often punish efforts to do any soapboxing.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 06, 2021, 07:18:18 AM

Northwestern faculty oppose AD Mike Polisky's hiring - Chicago Tribune (https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-northwestern-mike-polisky-athletic-director-protest-20210505-rvhcjoxmijhofoocrexmt6ksqi-story.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 06, 2021, 09:28:26 AM

PET

(https://i.imgur.com/m1RSNQk.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 06, 2021, 09:56:20 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 06, 2021, 07:18:18 AM

Northwestern faculty oppose AD Mike Polisky's hiring - Chicago Tribune (https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-northwestern-mike-polisky-athletic-director-protest-20210505-rvhcjoxmijhofoocrexmt6ksqi-story.html)

Coitizing coeds? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 06, 2021, 09:56:24 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 05, 2021, 05:58:04 PM

Screw Golf Boy. I got this.


Dane County convenes first meeting of task force to help prevent deaths from suicide, drug overdose and alcoholism | Local Government | madison.com


 (https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/dane-county-convenes-first-meeting-of-task-force-to-help-prevent-deaths-from-suicide-drug/article_4e32d843-5784-59d9-9063-7fa4c310685e.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1)Maybe loosen the lockdown, "leaders".

Thanks for stepping up
yes, I was slacking on the golf course with a Modelo in the cup holder

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 06, 2021, 10:01:16 AM

Good they use Corona to wash the clubs and balls....golf balls

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 06, 2021, 10:06:15 AM

(https://golfdigest.sports.sndimg.com/content/dam/images/golfdigest/fullset/2015/07/21/55adb1e4b01eefe207f8bc15_magazine-2014-07-maar02-golf-cart-dui.jpg.rend.hgtvcom.966.725.suffix/1588726853558.jpeg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on May 06, 2021, 10:34:54 AM

Worth saying again how outdated Dan Patrick's radio show is. Listening for the first time in a while & yesterday Dan Patrick was taking calls on whether Barry Bonds should be in the Hall of Fame. Goodness sakes that’s a sports radio topic from 2005. Rest of the industry passed him by YEARS ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 06, 2021, 10:49:08 AM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on May 06, 2021, 10:34:54 AM

Worth saying again how outdated Dan Patrick's radio show is. Listening for the first time in a while & yesterday Dan Patrick was taking calls on whether Barry Bonds should be in the Hall of Fame. Goodness sakes that’s a sports radio topic from 2005. Rest of the industry passed him by YEARS ago.

Oh come on now. Every guest he has is currently relevant. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyIcu-mpWA0 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on May 06, 2021, 11:02:08 AM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on May 06, 2021, 10:34:54 AM

Worth saying again how outdated Dan Patrick's radio show is. Listening for the first time in a while & yesterday Dan Patrick was taking calls on whether Barry Bonds should be in the Hall of Fame. Goodness sakes that’s a sports radio topic from 2005. Rest of the industry passed him by YEARS ago.

Man I didn't even know he still had a show

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 06, 2021, 11:28:05 AM

A LONG time ago, I'd listen some to Bob Trumpy in the car.  I once was motivated to call in, as his schtick was to disagree with everyone who called in.  He had just told off one called that UK would NOT make the Final Four, and I agreed with him, and he argued with me and said I was wrong.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 06, 2021, 11:59:05 AM

C8 Corvette Z06 Prototype Sounds Like a Ferrari 458 on Launch Control (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a36352316/this-c8-corvette-z06-prototype-sounds-like-a-ferrari-458-on-launch-control/?utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3WaTaT-s2Uola_MNKUBrE5yM-R8OQ5QNPvnXQBGDK1Hahkrg6v9rdMEb0)

If you are curious about what a flat plane crank sounds like ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2021, 12:04:27 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 05, 2021, 11:03:22 PM

I think we should present a united team where all lives matter and keep race remarks out of it

We could do that, except people shouting "all lives matter" use it as a retort.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 06, 2021, 12:19:16 PM

I had forgotten what an earworm the classic Dan Patrick theme was, but all someone had to do was mention his name and it's stuck in my head.


The Daaaaaan Patrick Show
On ESPN Radio
EEEEEEE SPN 
Radio

**Cue the jamming jazz horns as the music fades**

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 06, 2021, 12:40:51 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 06, 2021, 12:19:16 PM

The Daaaaaan Patrick Show

That was on CNBC or sumsuch then 2 yrs ago they cancelled that contract.They had to lose coin as he was the only all sports talk I'd watch and many,many others.Now I disabled the cable and have no I dea who carries it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2021, 12:45:14 PM

Do you guys think it's weird that they televise radio shows?  They've been doing it for awhile now.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 06, 2021, 12:46:23 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 05, 2021, 09:58:53 PM

F@&#!

Guess I'm gonna be doing some plumbing tomorrow.

See what all of your eating robustly has done

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 06, 2021, 12:51:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 06, 2021, 11:59:05 AM

C8 Corvette Z06 Prototype Sounds Like a Ferrari 458 on Launch Control (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a36352316/this-c8-corvette-z06-prototype-sounds-like-a-ferrari-458-on-launch-control/?utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3WaTaT-s2Uola_MNKUBrE5yM-R8OQ5QNPvnXQBGDK1Hahkrg6v9rdMEb0)

If you are curious about what a flat plane crank sounds like ...

Last month, we heard a rumor that, unlike with the previous Z06, Chevy is opting for natural aspiration with the new one. One Australian publication reported that the Z06 will make 617 hp from a naturally aspirated 5.5-liter V-8—believable, given the displacement, and similar to what Ferrari squeezed out of the 458's 4.5-liter mill. That would be less power than the old Z06, but with a sound like this and mid-engine handling, it's hard to imagine anyone complaining.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 06, 2021, 12:51:58 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2021, 12:04:27 PM

We could do that, except people shouting "all lives matter" use it as a retort. 

I dont think the Japanese will do that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 06, 2021, 12:56:45 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2021, 12:04:27 PM

We could do that, except people shouting "all lives matter" use it as a retort. 

why do you think they do that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 06, 2021, 12:58:39 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on May 06, 2021, 12:40:51 PM

That was on CNBC or sumsuch then 2 yrs ago they cancelled that contract.They had to lose coin as he was the only all sports talk I'd watch and many,many others.Now I disabled the cable and have no I dea who carries it

Are you thinking of his old partner Keith O? I think he was on MSNBC.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2021, 01:08:46 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 06, 2021, 12:56:45 PM

why do you think they do that

To be combative.  
We're at the point now that no matter what one side says, the other MUST disagree.  I'm sure you'll disagree with me, for instance.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 06, 2021, 01:14:51 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 06, 2021, 12:51:24 PM

Last month, we heard a rumor that, unlike with the previous Z06, Chevy is opting for natural aspiration with the new one. One Australian publication reported that the Z06 will make 617 hp from a naturally aspirated 5.5-liter V-8—believable, given the displacement, and similar to what Ferrari squeezed out of the 458's 4.5-liter mill. That would be less power than the old Z06, but with a sound like this and mid-engine handling, it's hard to imagine anyone complaining.

i recall an engine that produced 450HP naturally aspirated from the factory on a pushrod central camshaft platform- a BBC, as it was.  it was a fire beathing monster.  

ford offered up a 429 Boss, which was a hemispherical combustion chambered engine akin to a HEMI (but they couldn't call it that) that produced an unreal amount of ponies - exceeding 600HP (though it was rated lower in publication's for other reasons)... it was also NA.  

both of them, at the peak range of their power, could run with anything today... the problem is getting into that band.  sure, they produced exactly what they said they did and more, but not many people ever touched the RPM range they actually coughed that power up.  

these flat plane engine have a massive range of power- instead of a range of perhaps 300-500RPM starting above 5k RPM, they start coughing it up off idle... so, that engine producing 450hp n/a in a flat plane, such as ferrari pioneered, have 'useful' power.  

boost, be it nitro, turbo, or supercharger (or any of the variants) move the power band.  they do more- such as cramming 12L of air/fuel into a possible 4L engine and making that engine, for all practical purposes, a 'displacement on demand' engine, but... in practice, though, the boost simply moves the powerband to a range that matches the engines/vehicles purpose. ... that means a flat plane engine in the C8 turning out 'only' 435HP will likely run circles around the similarly set up car that runs a push rod 45* engine... faster off the line, faster out of the corner, max power to the ground on the straights instead of a wind-up. 

that said? that same engine boosted... uh-oh... that be something to fear as an opposing driver.  

an aside- I had a diesel engine some years ago that put 617HP to teh ground along with 1187# of tq... and averaged 18MPG... clean as a whistle (i'm strongly opposed to 'rolling coal')... the powerband in that truck, because of compound turbos, was over 1500RPM range.  I had power wherever i needed it and all of it was under 3k RPM.  I miss that truck. it was 11k pounds dressed out, and could still run 0-60 in under 6 seconds... stripped down it could do it around 5 seconds... nobody would ever have guessed that- which is what made it fun. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 06, 2021, 01:25:46 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2021, 01:08:46 PM

To be combative. 
We're at the point now that no matter what one side says, the other MUST disagree.  I'm sure you'll disagree with me, for instance.

I do disagree on this

I think its a feeling that we will never unite on saying only the life of one race matters
we will only unite when everyone realizes all life is precious 

but the media continues to stir the pot and really is only happy when there is conflict

do we have a bad cop problem yes do we have an antifa problem yes

hate needs to be taken out of the equation

changes need to be made but we need to be united to make these changes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 06, 2021, 01:36:37 PM

It’s part of the IOC’s long-standing ban on “demonstration or political, religious or racial propaganda” on the playing field, the medal stand or during the Games’ official ceremonies.

More generic words like “peace,” “respect,” “solidarity,” “inclusion” and “equality” will be allowed on T-shirts.


So this reads like "All Lives Matter" would not be in violation of the IOC rules because it treats everyone the same, or "equally"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 06, 2021, 01:46:42 PM

basically, and y'all can parse it and compartmentalize it however you wish, but the rest of the world is scared shitless over this American 'woke' thing... they realize the dangers of mass hysteria that condemns major sects of social structure and persecutes those who are targets of the 'woke'. 

history is bound to repeat itself because the nature of man doesn't change...... this dynamic has happened before and we're seeing it happen again... all for the selfishness of one side seeking advantage over another for their personal gain, and under the encouragement of those with a platform.   America is the least racist and one of the safest places on the planet- that should be celebrated not nit-picked until you've got everyone cornered afraid to speak their mind.... else be cancelled.. or worse. 

we ain't perfect... but we're closer to perfect than most outside of these borders. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 06, 2021, 02:13:13 PM

The Z06 will likely not have any boost, that will be saved for the ZR1.  The eventual hybrid will be a true monster, perhaps 1000 hp, motors driving the front axel and engine in the rear.

I think it's crazy, but I like it.

My surgery is scheduled May 25, outpatient.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 06, 2021, 03:10:41 PM

outpatient.... it amazes me the strides in medical procedures over just the last 20 years.  going to sick call and having 'bones' scan you with some sort of device and then hit another button to fix you isn't just for star trek anymore.... well, maybe it is... but i can see where that is actually coming at this rate. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 06, 2021, 03:22:42 PM

I was surprised they kept me overnight the first time really, but they said "for observation", OK.  They saw something in the cardiac CAT scan.

From what I read, this procedure is pretty simple with few/no undesired results, you recover quickly, I'll have a hole in my thigh.

I am tired of being out of breath all the time.  Our condo is on three levels and one set of stairs makes me dizzy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 06, 2021, 03:23:38 PM

The computer polls have almost disappeared from view.  I know one can find them, but they are rarely mentioned these days for obvious reasons.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2021, 03:48:34 PM

because a small committee has infiinte wisdom?  :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 06, 2021, 03:54:16 PM

I'd guess they are rarely discussed because they play no role these days of consequence, they are an oddity, a perhaps interesting feature that few follow.

Maybe the betting public puts great store in them, I don't know.

I'm impressed with how good "the line" gets set, by and large, I'd use those guys on the committee were it me, but that probably has a downside.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2021, 03:55:53 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 06, 2021, 01:25:46 PM

I do disagree on this

I think its a feeling that we will never unite on saying only the life of one race matters
we will only unite when everyone realizes all life is precious

This part is the guise of the phrase.  You're parrotting it.
.
Saying "black lives matter' means that this subest of all lives matters, too.  As in there is a danger that everyone doesn't value this subset.  Saying I like red M&M's doesn't mean I dislike green M&M's.  It means I was fearful that you though I didn't like red M&M's as much, and I'm setting the record straight. 

"Redheads are hot" doesn't mean "blondes are gross," does it?  This feaux "that tribe is being exclusionary" BS needs to stop.  It's fake (by the leaders of a certain party) and echoed by their blind (not stupid, blind) followers. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 06, 2021, 04:09:08 PM

How come it seems like nobody but me thinks of "black lives matter" every time there is a mass shooting or a drive by or child killed in Chicago?

That to me is far more disturbing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 06, 2021, 04:10:21 PM

Folks do worry about it of course, they tend to be less prominent in the "news".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 06, 2021, 04:10:46 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2021, 12:45:14 PM

Do you guys think it's weird that they televise radio shows?  They've been doing it for awhile now. 

Yes. Why would I want to see someone yapping who, pretty much by definition, has a "face for radio"?

Of course, I'm a "writer", and often say my momma told me growing up that I have a face for radio... and a voice for print.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 06, 2021, 04:11:45 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2021, 03:55:53 PM

This part is the guise of the phrase.  You're parrotting it.
.
Saying "black lives matter' means that this subest of all lives matters, too.  As in there is a danger that everyone doesn't value this subset.  Saying I like red M&M's doesn't mean I dislike green M&M's.  It means I was fearful that you though I didn't like red M&M's as much, and I'm setting the record straight. 

"Redheads are hot" doesn't mean "blondes are gross," does it?  This feaux "that tribe is being exclusionary" BS needs to stop.  It's fake (by the leaders of a certain party) and echoed by their blind (not stupid, blind) followers. 

if we dont both move to the middle there will be no solution to our current situation

saying Black Lives Matter infers that white people dont feel that way and it tends to incite confrontation

I for one am tired of being labeled racist just because Im white

that gets old in a hurry

I know the activists dont want to hear it but all lives matter not just Black lives

I dont remember ever hearing the slogan Black lives matter TOO

If that was the name of the organization it wsould not get the same reaction from the right

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 06, 2021, 04:12:39 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on May 06, 2021, 12:46:23 PM

See what all of your eating robustly has done

It was all kicked off by cooking, yes. Not the opposite plumbing. 

I put some shrimp shells down the disposal. That clogged. Then the disposal stopped. So I started working on getting into the PVC pipes under the sink to fix it. And broke the strainer of the other side of the sink trying to move pipes. So suddenly I needed to replace that strainer too...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 06, 2021, 04:15:24 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2021, 12:45:14 PM

Do you guys think it's weird that they televise radio shows?  They've been doing it for awhile now. 

I think it's weird that they televise most of the crap on TV.
They've been doing it since CATV produced more than 3 or 4 channels and 24 hour channels.
weird crap

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 06, 2021, 04:19:30 PM

Glad that's over.

Now I need to figure out WTF I did to the outlet feeding the disposal. I've checked the disposal on an extension cord and it's fine, and the other outlet connected (for the dishwasher) is fine. But the switch which controls this outlet is now dead...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 06, 2021, 04:23:39 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 06, 2021, 04:12:39 PM

It was all kicked off by cooking, yes. Not the opposite plumbing.

I put some shrimp shells down the disposal. That clogged. Then the disposal stopped. So I started working on getting into the PVC pipes under the sink to fix it. And broke the strainer of the other side of the sink trying to move pipes. So suddenly I needed to replace that strainer too...

Stick to cooking here... and write checks for plumbing.

Why not use the shells to make a stock?!?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 06, 2021, 04:26:28 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 06, 2021, 04:23:39 PM

Stick to cooking here... and write checks for plumbing.

Why not use the shells to make a stock?!?

Interesting thought... I keep some beef/pork bones from time to time to use in soup. I haven't messed much with making other stocks.

This was 1 1/4 lb of shrimp so probably not enough to make much stock. But maybe if I'm doing a big shrimp cook for a crowd I might harvest those shells for a stock.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2021, 04:30:10 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 06, 2021, 04:09:08 PM

How come it seems like nobody but me thinks of "black lives matter" every time there is a mass shooting or a drive by or child killed in Chicago?

That to me is far more disturbing.

I can tell it bothers you so.
Gang vs gang violence doesn't involve someone tasked with protecting and serving.  

This line of thinking pretends like police officers aren't to be held to a higher standard, which they obviously should.  
Blue lives matter, too, but again, it's just another fake retort.  

It'd be nice if they could stop shooting unarmed people, wouldn't it?  It'd be really nice if they got more than 4 minuties of training each year, too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 06, 2021, 04:30:43 PM

I once tried to make stock out of shells, but it ended up being rather metallic and bitter.  Someone said I should have used .45 ACP instead of .357 though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 06, 2021, 04:40:55 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 06, 2021, 04:26:28 PM

Interesting thought... I keep some beef/pork bones from time to time to use in soup. I haven't messed much with making other stocks.

This was 1 1/4 lb of shrimp so probably not enough to make much stock. But maybe if I'm doing a big shrimp cook for a crowd I might harvest those shells for a stock.

Freeze them until you need them. Lobster, crab, mussels, clams - any shell. I combine. I can post a recipe in the appropriate place if you like.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2021, 04:42:42 PM

I have a kitchen outlet with both red and green lights on.  Pushing the reset button does nothing.  Is it screwed up?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 06, 2021, 04:43:43 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2021, 04:30:10 PM

It'd be nice if they could stop shooting unarmed people, wouldn't it?  It'd be really nice if they got more than 4 minuties of training each year, too.

Do you believe the police shoot unarmed people often?  If so, how often?  We'd like the figure to be zero, but obviously that is impractical, though perhaps it could be reduced.

My guess is most cops really don't want to shoot anyone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 06, 2021, 04:47:45 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2021, 04:30:10 PM

I can tell it bothers you so.
Gang vs gang violence doesn't involve someone tasked with protecting and serving. 

This line of thinking pretends like police officers aren't to be held to a higher standard, which they obviously should. 
Blue lives matter, too, but again, it's just another fake retort. 

It'd be nice if they could stop shooting unarmed people, wouldn't it?  It'd be really nice if they got more than 4 minuties of training each year, too.

Do you know what percentage are unarmed when they are shot?

It's not high, but I'm guessing you don't know. Fortunately, I've done the research for you.

Data is from the Washington Post. Police killings from 2015-2020:

(https://i.imgur.com/yhoPlkl.png)


Police shootings database 2015-2021 - Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 06, 2021, 04:49:09 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2021, 04:42:42 PM

I have a kitchen outlet with both red and green lights on.  Pushing the reset button does nothing.  Is it screwed up?

Yes. It needs to be replaced. Go to Home Depot and get a new one - probably 20 amp if it's in the kitchen, but check your circuit board. Turn off the circuit and replace. 10 minute job.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2021, 04:54:30 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 06, 2021, 04:43:43 PM

Do you believe the police shoot unarmed people often?  If so, how often?  We'd like the figure to be zero, but obviously that is impractical, though perhaps it could be reduced.

My guess is most cops really don't want to shoot anyone.

Not often at all, hardly ever.  
I understand it in a scuffle - if you're knocked out or someone grabs your gun, you have to act like you'll be killed.  
But aren't the cases where someone is at a distance and/or running away and committed a minor crime the kind where the number could be zero police kills?  In the vastness that is crime statistics, isn't the guy getting away better than murdering them?
Seems like that's how our court system is designed, why not police behaviors?  
And if you really want to get riled up, look up how little these people are trained.  It defies logic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 06, 2021, 04:54:53 PM

FORE!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on May 06, 2021, 04:56:10 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2021, 12:45:14 PM

Do you guys think it's weird that they televise radio shows?  They've been doing it for awhile now. 

There's so much ground to cover across cable sports channels that turning radio shows into TV shows works great as live filler that can be sold to advertisers. Back when Mike & Mike began TV simulcasting as far back as 2005 on ESPN2 (on the heels of Stern and Imus simulcasting), ESPN's goal was to load up on advertisers like Subway that could be charged far more for TV time than on radio. Because higher dollars came into play, TV simulcasting noticeably gave radio shows a much more corporate, filtered tone overnight. Today's simulcasters hammer away at the same 10 - 12 tired topics year round whereas before, when they were radio-only everybody was more entertainingly all over the place and often outside the bounds of sports.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2021, 04:56:15 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 06, 2021, 04:47:45 PM

Do you know what percentage are unarmed when they are shot?

It's not high, but I'm guessing you don't know. 

I know it's not high.  Who said it was?  I just mentioned it as the least police could do.  Stop acting like EVERY interaction is life-and-death because it isn't.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 06, 2021, 04:57:09 PM

I had a buddy in Columbus that put everything down the disposal. I advised him that he out to just throw it in the trash instead, and he scoffed. A week later his sink was backed up with sludge, and he had to get it snaked.

I also had a roommate once that refused to shave over a trash can instead of a sink, so it was always getting clogged. Generally these things are easily avoidable by minimizing the crap that you put down the drain.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2021, 04:58:10 PM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on May 06, 2021, 04:56:10 PM

There's so much ground to cover across cable sports channels that turning radio shows into TV shows works great as live filler that can be sold to advertisers. Back when Mike & Mike began TV simulcasting as far back as 2005 on ESPN2 (on the heels of Stern and Imus simulcasting), ESPN's goal was to load up on advertisers like Subway that could be charged far more for TV time than on radio. Because higher dollars came into play, TV simulcasting noticeably gave radio shows a much more corporate, filtered tone overnight. Today's simulcasters hammer away at the same 10 - 12 tired topics year round whereas before, when they were radio-only everybody was more entertainingly all over the place and often outside the bounds of sports.

I want to do a 'between 2 ferns' with college football people......act like Chris Farley interviewing Paul McCartney.

Re...re.remember when you threw that touchdown pass?   That was cool!  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2021, 05:00:05 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 06, 2021, 04:57:09 PM

I had a buddy in Columbus that put everything down the disposal. I advised him that he out to just throw it in the trash instead, and he scoffed. A week later his sink was backed up with sludge, and he had to get it snaked.

I also had a roommate once that refused to shave over a trash can instead of a sink, so it was always getting clogged. Generally these things are easily avoidable by minimizing the crap that you put down the drain.

For the longest time, I had no idea grease down tthe disposal was a no-no.  But now I know better.  And knowing is half the battle!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 06, 2021, 05:04:51 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2021, 05:00:05 PM

For the longest time, I had no idea grease down tthe disposal was a no-no.  But now I know better.  And knowing is half the battle!

you can put grease down the disposal if done properly

which is running lots of hot water and turning on the disposal for 30 sec and then running lots more of hot water

if been doing it thats way for years and never had a problem

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 06, 2021, 05:06:48 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 06, 2021, 05:04:51 PM

you can put grease down the disposal if done properly

which is running lots of hot water and turning on the disposal for 30 sec and then running lots more of hot water

if been doing it thats way for years and never had a problem

This is word for word what my buddy said the week before his sink got clogged.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 06, 2021, 05:17:19 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2021, 04:56:15 PM

I know it's not high.  Who said it was?  I just mentioned it as the least police could do.  Stop acting like EVERY interaction is life-and-death because it isn't. 

True story.


I was up in Chicago area when I got pulled over for not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign. (suburb)

She asked if I knew why I was being pulled over, and I said "April Fools?" It was April 1.

I was trying to find my insurance card on my phone, when it dawned on me that it was in my backpack. I get out of the car and her partner got out with his weapon drawn, yelling at me to put my hands up. He checked me over and told me to never got out of the car. I'm thinking if I had reached in my pocket to pull out a wallet I would have been shot.

Cops are really on edge now. Not sure why anyone would want to be one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 06, 2021, 05:34:19 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 06, 2021, 05:06:48 PM

This is word for word what my buddy said the week before his sink got clogged.

well let me amend my post a little

Im not talking about a coffee can full of bacon grease

Im talking about throwing out a left over where the grease has congealed on the top
maybe a cup of grease at most

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 06, 2021, 05:38:48 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx12Rox91ww

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on May 06, 2021, 05:41:09 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 06, 2021, 05:17:19 PM

True story.


I was up in Chicago area when I got pulled over for not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign...

My similar pull-over story is two police cars firing up their lights behind me a few years ago.

Police: "Do you know why I pulled you over?"
Me: "I never answer this question right."
Police: "Do you have any weapons or drugs?"
Me: ...shakes bottle of Excedrin PM Pills
Police: "I mean controlled narcotics?"
Me: ...turns up club music...I took a Pill in Ibiza

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 06, 2021, 05:57:40 PM

You can run Dawn down the drain with grease and hot water, copious hot water, it tends to cool down in the pipes of course.  The Dawn will emulsify or dissolve the grease, largely.

It's a bit iffy of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 06, 2021, 09:15:20 PM

Can we stop with the Dawn crap-it's one of many and WAY over priced.Plenty of better degreasers and easier on the wallet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on May 06, 2021, 09:17:05 PM

It's the Dawn lobby

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 06, 2021, 10:04:17 PM

(https://mms.businesswire.com/media/20170509005005/en/585927/4/Dawn_17.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 06, 2021, 10:07:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 06, 2021, 05:17:19 PM

Cops are really on edge now. Not sure why anyone would want to be one.

They've been for a long time. It just wasn't all out there. 

But folks will always want to take that kind of job for all sorts of reasons (no one likes politicians, and people still want to do that). Too many will fall into the traps of enjoying wielding state violence and not being held accountable things, but hopefully enough with good moral fiber can change the culture. Unfortunately seems like that'll have to come from within. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 06, 2021, 10:17:46 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 06, 2021, 10:07:07 PM

They've been for a long time. It just wasn't all out there.

But folks will always want to take that kind of job for all sorts of reasons (no one likes politicians, and people still want to do that). Too many will fall into the traps of enjoying wielding state violence and not being held accountable things, but hopefully enough with good moral fiber can change the culture. Unfortunately seems like that'll have to come from within.

the ugly has infiltrated into an otherwise noble trade.  to further that, people hire in their own image... and to @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) 's point, those seeking to be police in the environments we're told by the media exists, they're likely not the type seeking those positions for the service of the community.  

most cops are good people but who are fearful for the same freakin' reasons people are afraid of them- the freakin' media, and those who are operating far above their station.  they incite both sides, and then jetset to their comfortable and secure lairs where they pop champagne and laugh over their exploits.  to what ends? notoriety? a few dollars? what are the editors and the producers doing? why and to what ends? 

i see both sides of this.  i know a lot of cops seeking incident as a notch on their belts... and i see people who beg for police interdiction and then cry victim when they get it... and i see the media exploiting these, what i would consider exceedingly rare, encounters as the norm.  

the media is to blame.  it's to blame for a lot of the crap afoul right now.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 06, 2021, 10:38:19 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 06, 2021, 10:04:17 PM

(https://mms.businesswire.com/media/20170509005005/en/585927/4/Dawn_17.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZzWOKgoUQY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2021, 11:03:11 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on May 06, 2021, 10:17:46 PM

the media is to blame.  it's to blame for a lot of the crap afoul right now. 

I think it would be accurate to do a 'search and replace' "the media" with "the masses." 

The news wants ratings.  They cover what we will watch.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 06, 2021, 11:14:25 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2021, 11:03:11 PM

I think it would be accurate to do a 'search and replace' "the media" with "the masses."

The news wants ratings.  They cover what we will watch. 

sometimes they even make stuff up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 07, 2021, 12:21:17 AM

I was just out star gazing when all of a sudden I saw what looked like about ten stars that just moved across the sky in a single file line. I watched them until they were out of view. I can't even speculate about what THAT was.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 07, 2021, 12:25:03 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir3gAak9LkY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 07, 2021, 07:29:28 AM

I can't watch "news" on TV very long, other than perhaps a business channel briefly in the AM.  I don't watch ESPN other than games, and really only CFB.

I can read on line faster than they give the news and without commercial interruption, and I skip the latest gossip on some movie star or Bill Gates.

I usually watch CNBC in the AM with my coffee just to see what's afoot.

Not that anyone much cares, but in Book Four, Lucy has twins, this war ends, for now anyway.  John goes back home to Virginia.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 07, 2021, 08:00:17 AM

2021 Chevrolet Suburban Diesel Review - Duramax Suburban Tested (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a36003397/2021-chevrolet-suburban-diesel-review/?fbclid=IwAR3qm30MjhWZUrmeejqPXninCVv5cG6XHjHPSh21Bi-UJdCxOJeo1EdJado)

I always liked the Diesel concept in a truck or large SUV, and today the engines are refined and fuel efficient and torquey.

Torque is more important than hp in my view.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 07, 2021, 09:33:32 AM

always wanted a big diesel truck, but could not justify it.

my cousin on the other hand, he's not as logical

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2021, 10:17:36 AM

Interesting read here.

Flashback: The brazen gangland slaying of Tony Lombardo - Chicago Tribune (https://www.chicagotribune.com/history/ct-opinion-flashback-tony-lombardo-murder-mob-20210507-toctyzsbundghjhp7pv2vzvgsq-story.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 07, 2021, 10:32:48 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 07, 2021, 12:21:17 AM

I was just out star gazing when all of a sudden I saw what looked like about ten stars that just moved across the sky in a single file line. I watched them until they were out of view. I can't even speculate about what THAT was.

Elon Musk and his Starlink?

https://www.kcra.com/article/starlink-satellites-ight-sky/36359224

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 07, 2021, 10:35:05 AM

be my guess

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 07, 2021, 10:48:20 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 07, 2021, 10:32:48 AM

Elon Musk and his Starlink?

https://www.kcra.com/article/starlink-satellites-ight-sky/36359224

I think you nailed it dude, that is totally what I saw. 


(https://starwalk.space/gallery/images/may-2020-starlink-satellites/1920x1080)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 07, 2021, 11:00:14 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 07, 2021, 10:48:20 AM

I think you nailed it dude, that is totally what I saw.


[img width=500 height=280.997]https://starwalk.space/gallery/images/may-2020-starlink-satellites/1920x1080[/img]

where ever they are going they look organized

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on May 07, 2021, 11:26:47 AM

Nothing says Friday like Zillow and Zoloft

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 07, 2021, 11:34:20 AM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on May 07, 2021, 11:26:47 AM

Nothing says Friday like Zillow and Zoloft

one of the benefits of retirement is that every day is Friday

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 07, 2021, 11:39:02 AM

looking forward to it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 07, 2021, 11:46:10 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 07, 2021, 11:34:20 AM

one of the benefits of retirement is that every day is Friday

I think you mean Saturday.

If every day was Friday, then you'd never get a day off. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 07, 2021, 11:47:54 AM

A Friday mindset.....c'mon, a growth mindset....a Homer Simpson mindset.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 07, 2021, 11:56:55 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 07, 2021, 11:46:10 AM

I think you mean Saturday.

If every day was Friday, then you'd never get a day off.

growing up as a kid Fridays were my favorite cause it was grocery shopping day and for dinner we would have hot dogs and punch yum

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 07, 2021, 11:58:31 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 07, 2021, 11:46:10 AM

I think you mean Saturday.

If every day was Friday, then you'd never get a day off.

that has no meaning when youre retired unless of course its football season then you have a little more meaning to Saturday

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2021, 12:13:20 PM

Sometimes I feel like every day is Monday.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 07, 2021, 12:15:40 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 07, 2021, 11:58:31 AM

that has no meaning when youre retired unless of course its football season then you have a little more meaning to Saturday

It has plenty of meaning when you are comparing retirement to a typical work week. 

One is a work day, the other isn't. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 07, 2021, 12:25:39 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 07, 2021, 12:15:40 PM

It has plenty of meaning when you are comparing retirement to a typical work week.

One is a work day, the other isn't.

work?  I kinda remember that

long time ago

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 07, 2021, 12:33:00 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2021, 12:13:20 PM

Sometimes I feel like every day is Monday.

When I've got the kids, weekends seem like more work than working.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 07, 2021, 01:03:03 PM

I figured that kids would be like pets. If you only have one, it will drive you insane with its constant need for attention. But once you have two, they just kind of keep each other entertained for the most part. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2021, 01:03:22 PM

My kids are off of my payroll, so I forgot all about that kind of work.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2021, 01:03:55 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 07, 2021, 01:03:03 PM

I figured that kids would be like pets. If you only have one, it will drive you insane with its constant need for attention. But once you have two, they just kind of keep each other entertained for the most part.

Nope. One is like having one. Two is like having ten.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 07, 2021, 01:36:44 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 07, 2021, 12:33:00 PM

When I've got the kids, weekends seem like more work than working.

How many kids?
I have 22, which is a low year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 07, 2021, 03:16:25 PM

when we first had small children I also acquired a Golden Retriever puppy

I bought a book on how to train a puppy and was amazed at how much of it could also be used when raising children

one thing the book said which I have also applied to children was never call the puppy to you for discipline  instead always go to it that way the puppy will never be afraid to come when called

I applied that to my children as well and it has worked out great

I never could get them to use the restroom in the back yard however

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 07, 2021, 03:19:26 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2021, 01:03:55 PM

Nope. One is like having one. Two is like having ten.

Ive often said that if our daughter had not been born first we would never have tried for two

raising a girl is so much easier then raising a boy and I come from a 3 boy family

I dont know how my mom did it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 07, 2021, 03:22:23 PM

you got lucky with that daughter

I had one daughter that was easy, compared to the first daughter

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 07, 2021, 03:28:25 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 07, 2021, 03:22:23 PM

you got lucky with that daughter

well I wouldnt know cause she is the only one Ive ever had but as a baby she would sleep through the night

poddy trained very early and just a joy to be around

My son was quite different  as in he was all boy and was continually figuring out how to break things


if you didnt hear him it was time to go find out what he was doing cause his options were limitless 
  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 07, 2021, 03:29:19 PM

Yup, exactly the same with my daughter and son.  

So glad we had the girl first.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2021, 03:32:24 PM

The second child is nature's best form of birth control.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 07, 2021, 03:33:55 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2021, 03:32:24 PM

The second child is nature's best form of birth control.

well, I wasn't about to take a chance of having 3 girls

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 07, 2021, 03:38:55 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2021, 03:32:24 PM

The second child is nature's best form of birth control.

well we had already decided to stop at 2 but if we hadnt decided that the boy would have made that decision for us

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 07, 2021, 03:49:42 PM

We were going to stop at two but had twins second time around.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 07, 2021, 04:19:32 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 07, 2021, 03:22:23 PM

you got lucky with that daughter

I had one daughter that was easy, compared to the first daughter

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR3uhIFPR3HKCaodyiPNLMqx_zAwpJ3DsmbJA&usqp=CAU)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2021, 04:39:59 PM

California reports first yearly population decline in state's history, a drop of more than 182,000 people - ABC7 San Francisco (abc7news.com) (https://abc7news.com/society/california-reports-first-yearly-population-decline-in-states-history/10594297/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 07, 2021, 04:41:30 PM

houses gonna get cheaper

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 07, 2021, 04:51:02 PM

How can they possibly have a net loss after absorbing half of Latin America?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 07, 2021, 05:02:11 PM

half of those half didn't get counted

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2021, 05:03:41 PM

Florida went up 241,256.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2021, 05:05:21 PM

The US Cities Where Home Values Are Falling the Fastest (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/the-us-cities-where-home-values-are-falling-the-fastest/ss-BB1gsMvm?ocid=msedgntp#image=16)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 07, 2021, 05:05:24 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 07, 2021, 05:02:11 PM

half of those half didn't get counted

yet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 07, 2021, 05:07:05 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 07, 2021, 12:21:17 AM

I was just out star gazing when all of a sudden I saw what looked like about ten stars that just moved across the sky in a single file line. I watched them until they were out of view. I can't even speculate about what THAT was.

jagermeister kicking in

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2021, 05:07:57 PM

Census data is kinda suspect at the moment as well, based on today's numbers versus the December estimates.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 07, 2021, 05:29:37 PM

everything is suspect

politicians and the media

both evil and dishonest

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on May 07, 2021, 05:29:50 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 07, 2021, 03:19:26 PM

Ive often said that if our daughter had not been born first we would never have tried for two

raising a girl is so much easier then raising a boy and I come from a 3 boy family

I dont know how my mom did it

Different strokes.  I'm  1 of 3 boys, Mom said often she was glad she didn't have 3 girls.    I have 2 girls,  I often drift out of the room wondering what planet I'm on.    The drama and emotional swings are so foreign to me.  I suppose my girls aren't breaking stuff and rough on the wood floors, wood trim and floorboards.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 07, 2021, 10:44:55 PM

boys break things and bones

girls break hearts and emotional wrecks

I'm better suited to deal with boys, but had two girls

different planets

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 07, 2021, 10:56:54 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 07, 2021, 10:44:55 PM

boys break things and bones

girls break hearts and emotional wrecks

I'm better suited to deal with boys, but had two girls

different planets

By the time my son was in High School he had broken both arms and probably had close to 100 stitches 

He had been to the ER so many times the nurses would say high when passing and calli him by his first name

It reminded me of an episode of Home Improvement where the ER had a coffee cup with Tim's name on it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 08, 2021, 12:38:11 AM

and in my opinion, it's easier to deal with than the emotional stuff from girls

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 08, 2021, 09:20:32 AM

Boys are harder up to 11-12, the girls get harder (including the boys eventually chasing them), imo.  But I'm not a parent.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 08, 2021, 09:36:23 AM

I suspect different children are harder independent of their sex, it just varies from child to child and folks say "Well, boys/girls are tougher", whichever is applicable.  It's just the individual.

Mine were all very different.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 08, 2021, 09:48:43 AM

If the girls are getting all emotional, just stick a box of tissues between them and say "let me know when you ladies are done crying, I'll be in my man cave." 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 08, 2021, 10:18:28 AM

pretty much how I dealt with it

not sure that was the best for my daughters

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 08, 2021, 11:36:43 AM

Nothing to see here?

Residents in Los Angeles’ Venice neighborhood frustrated over large homeless encampment, shootings, stabbings | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/los-angeles-venice-homeless-shootings-stabbings)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 08, 2021, 11:44:28 AM

(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.metalmusicarchives.com%2Fimages%2Fcovers%2Fsuicidal-tendencies-welcome-to-venice%28split%29.jpg&hash=ded1c54160771c8bc2590282447fc6e8)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 08, 2021, 12:30:05 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 08, 2021, 11:36:43 AM

Nothing to see here?

Residents in Los Angeles’ Venice neighborhood frustrated over large homeless encampment, shootings, stabbings | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/los-angeles-venice-homeless-shootings-stabbings)

I'd move out

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 08, 2021, 12:34:06 PM

The cfb51 Californians are gonna be  all like....




(https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/nothing_to_see_here_naked_gun.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on May 08, 2021, 12:45:38 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 07, 2021, 04:41:30 PM

houses gonna get cheaper

Unfortunately "Big Real Estate" (like Big Pharma) uses all sorts of methods to prop itself up and keep housing artificially overpriced. They're doing this in New York right now, where prices in New York Metro are kept high by shielding the sheer amount of properties posted for sale and consequently overpricing the market by depicting the low supply necessary to maintain current pricing. If it ever reached general levels of public knowledge as to the volume of houses "unofficially" for sale across NYC Metro, we'd see proportionate drop in property values.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 08, 2021, 12:47:10 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 08, 2021, 12:34:06 PM

(https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/nothing_to_see_here_naked_gun.gif)

Grab that from 11 warriors?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 08, 2021, 01:59:20 PM

Had lunch at our fav Indian place, their food is really something, unlike "Indian" food I've had at lesser places.  It was full, there was one other table of folks like us, everyone else was Indian.  We were afraid they wouldn't survive, but they have.  On 8thh and Peachtree, the real Peachtree.

Indian Food Atlanta | Northwest | Blue India Atlanta (https://www.blueindiaatlanta.com/gallery)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 08, 2021, 02:25:13 PM

only tried Indian food a couple times.  not many options in this area

enjoyed it each time.  always ordered something with some heat

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 08, 2021, 05:55:53 PM

We got some Hawaiian joints here, is that any good? Or is it just seafood?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 08, 2021, 10:58:11 PM

WHITING, Ind. (AP) — A northwestern Indiana city is bringing back its annual Pierogi Fest, a year after the festival built around the popular Polish delicacy was canceled because of the coronavirus pandemic.

This year’s Pierogi Fest will take place from July 23-25 in Whiting, Indiana, where crowds will once again celebrate pierogis and consume the traditionally potato- and cheese-filled dumplings, The (Northwest Indiana) Times reported.

Pierogi Fest is one of the largest food festivals in Indiana and across the Midwest. The event in the city about 20 miles (32 kilometers) southeast of Chicago is filled with offbeat events like a pierogi toss contest and a nun dunk tank.


_____________________________________________

If only I wasn't 8 hours away

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 09, 2021, 12:02:32 AM

Eh. Starch wrapped in starch ain't my thing, despite my Polish DNA...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 09, 2021, 02:12:33 AM

"Hawaiian food" is as much BBQ as it is seafood.  And all the Spam.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 09, 2021, 08:29:30 AM

Not a fan of Hawaiian cuisine. Especially that purple shit. Yuck.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 09, 2021, 08:35:02 AM

Hawaiian Pizza?

pineapple

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 09, 2021, 08:36:51 AM

Just don't do it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 09, 2021, 08:40:54 AM

Speaking of just don't do it...

Shoplifters hit Loop Walgreens as cops respond to disturbances involving ‘large gathering’ - Chicago Tribune (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-met-downtown-disturbance-20210509-dcz27u52erejxcbu72sjfygjli-story.html)



Never gonna step foot in that city again, except at ORD. I'm done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 09, 2021, 08:41:26 AM

I don't, but my daughter enjoys it.

Sometimes I have to clean up the leftovers

takes a generous amount of cayenne 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 09, 2021, 10:55:20 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 09, 2021, 02:12:33 AM

"Hawaiian food" is as much BBQ as it is seafood.  And all the Spam.

This is true, I've been to 3-4 "Luaus".  The serve BBQ pig, it's decent, once you've seen one though, you've seen them all.

I've been to multiples because folks wanted me to take them.  We usually  have a crowd when we go, as we have planned this December for two weeks, this one is all family with one exception, our neighbor is going for one week with us.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 09, 2021, 01:49:15 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=72&v=cgYF2qbTzn4&feature=emb_logo

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 09, 2021, 01:49:33 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 08, 2021, 11:36:43 AM

Nothing to see here?

Residents in Los Angeles’ Venice neighborhood frustrated over large homeless encampment, shootings, stabbings | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/los-angeles-venice-homeless-shootings-stabbings)

I mean, that is a very not good thing. Homelessness is alas a deeply intractable issue. So much of it is tied to drug addiction and mental health issues. Many who served our country have fallen into it, and it's just a bear to get out of. 

And the only salve for communities is often just having government harass folks and destroy their meager property until they just go somewhere else. A real tragedy. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 09, 2021, 03:51:10 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 08, 2021, 11:36:43 AM

Nothing to see here?

Residents in Los Angeles’ Venice neighborhood frustrated over large homeless encampment, shootings, stabbings | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/los-angeles-venice-homeless-shootings-stabbings)

(https://i.imgflip.com/38mzc3.jpg)


such a lovely place, such a lovely pace- where homeless dudes shit right in front your face, right in front your face.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 09, 2021, 03:53:03 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2021, 05:03:41 PM

Florida went up 241,256.

best place to live in all 'Merica and got the best governor in the country by a million miles running shit. 

I'm just concerned that a lot of the idiots moving here are going to ruin the state and turn it into what they are fleeing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 09, 2021, 03:55:23 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 09, 2021, 08:40:54 AM

Speaking of just don't do it...

Shoplifters hit Loop Walgreens as cops respond to disturbances involving ‘large gathering’ - Chicago Tribune (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-met-downtown-disturbance-20210509-dcz27u52erejxcbu72sjfygjli-story.html)



Never gonna step foot in that city again, except at ORD. I'm done.

Was always take it or leave it, kinda meh about Chicago. Always kinda felt like it was a try-hard wannabe New York but nowhere near as good or cool. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 09, 2021, 04:01:17 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2021, 04:39:59 PM

California reports first yearly population decline in state's history, a drop of more than 182,000 people - ABC7 San Francisco (abc7news.com) (https://abc7news.com/society/california-reports-first-yearly-population-decline-in-states-history/10594297/)

makes sense. only going to get worse in the coming years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 09, 2021, 05:04:47 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 09, 2021, 03:53:03 PM

best place to live in all 'Merica and got the best governor in the country by a million miles running shit.

I'm just concerned that a lot of the idiots moving here are going to ruin the state and turn it into what they are fleeing.

You've explained to us that you feel 95 percent of the state is trash. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 09, 2021, 05:16:19 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2021, 05:05:21 PM

The US Cities Where Home Values Are Falling the Fastest (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/the-us-cities-where-home-values-are-falling-the-fastest/ss-BB1gsMvm?ocid=msedgntp#image=16)

Odd collection of cities. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 09, 2021, 05:32:53 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 09, 2021, 05:16:19 PM

Odd collection of cities.

Not really. Makes sense. California & Midwest populating that list makes complete sense. Dying states. Rural South makes sense too- cheap ass land with no jobs no money and tons of country bumpkins. What doesn't make sense is those few places in Texas populating that list.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 09, 2021, 05:36:53 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 09, 2021, 05:04:47 PM

You've explained to us that you feel 95 percent of the state is trash.

Orlando is nice, just boring as shit with no beaches. Jacksonville is a dump, Tampa is an armpit. South Florida is SUPER freaking nice. Those 4 places probably have 80-90% of the entire states population. There's nice little seaside towns like Destin or Seaside WAY up north. But they are kinda red-necky. There's nice little seaside rich towns on the West Coast like Naples. But they are all SUPER boring.

Most of the state is empty barren wasteland with little to no population and the people that live in those areas are 100% trashbags- but that's true of pretty much any state.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 09, 2021, 06:11:40 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 09, 2021, 05:36:53 PM

Orlando is nice, just boring as shit with no beaches. Jacksonville is a dump, Tampa is an armpit. South Florida is SUPER freaking nice. Those 4 places probably have 80-90% of the entire states population. There's nice little seaside towns like Destin or Seaside WAY up north. But they are kinda red-necky. There's nice little seaside rich towns on the West Coast like Naples. But they are all SUPER boring.

Most of the state is empty barren wasteland with little to no population and the people that live in those areas are 100% trashbags- but that's true of pretty much any state.

You wrote what I wrote, but longer. You dislike vast tracks of Florida. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on May 09, 2021, 06:17:41 PM

Man, the disparity between the median home value and median income in those Cali cities is...something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 09, 2021, 07:51:30 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 09, 2021, 05:32:53 PM

Not really. Makes sense. California & Midwest populating that list makes complete sense. Dying states. Rural South makes sense too- cheap ass land with no jobs no money and tons of country bumpkins. What doesn't make sense is those few places in Texas populating that list.

It's weird that you don't differentiate the location of cities in those states, only the states they're in. 

The list is 
SF
SF suburb
Southwest Kansas small town
Tiny town in eastern North Dakota
West Texas oil town (modest size)
Small Missouri town
Mississippi river town in Iowa that's not very big
Outer Houston suburb
Louisiana oil town
Texas border town
Missouri air force base town
SF/San Jose suburb (not a nice one)
East Texas town that's kinda out there
Mobile, Alabama suburb
Random orange county village

It's an odd mix. I suppose that makes sense that it would be sort of random. Happy to see those numbers drop somewhere near or around SF. That real estate market has been overheated for decades. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 09, 2021, 11:23:49 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 09, 2021, 05:36:53 PM

Orlando is nice, just boring as shit with no beaches. Jacksonville is a dump, Tampa is an armpit. South Florida is SUPER freaking nice. Those 4 places probably have 80-90% of the entire states population. There's nice little seaside towns like Destin or Seaside WAY up north. But they are kinda red-necky. There's nice little seaside rich towns on the West Coast like Naples. But they are all SUPER boring.

Most of the state is empty barren wasteland with little to no population and the people that live in those areas are 100% trashbags- but that's true of pretty much any state.

So the only worthwhile places are highly-manicured coastal areas where the rich people live?  Got it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 09, 2021, 11:26:19 PM

...but it's a wet heat. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 09, 2021, 11:38:14 PM

Personally, I hate the long stretches of FL with big, pretty houses lining the beach.  I can't see the ocean and can't access the beach in those areas.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 09, 2021, 11:53:27 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 09, 2021, 11:38:14 PM

Personally, I hate the long stretches of FL with big, pretty houses lining the beach.  I can't see the ocean and can't access the beach in those areas.

Here in Texas we passed a law called Open Beaches Act way back in 1959 just so you could enjoy the beaches along the gulf coast

even if they have houses bordering it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 10, 2021, 07:05:08 AM

The Gulf Coast, from Sarasota to Marco, is very nice, and NOT boring. No, we don't have much of what you see below. South Beach can keep that shit, and the gang banging that comes with it.

(https://i.imgur.com/2spqUJP.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2021, 08:46:28 AM

I've visited uncrowded beaches in Florida, they are there, but kids prefer the other kind.

We visited Miami Beach and it was pretty quiet when we were there.  We stayed across the street from a sliver of a park and then beach.  

The wife tripped on a sidewalk and burst an artery in her forehead, and also ruined her shoulder at the same time.  Had an interesting ride in the ambulance, they took good care of her.  She was really  bleeding.

She had the shoulder done last August, the full monte, unlike mine.  She said it was really bad, the recovery.  rotator cuff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 10, 2021, 10:17:52 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 09, 2021, 11:38:14 PM

Personally, I hate the long stretches of FL with big, pretty houses lining the beach.  I can't see the ocean and can't access the beach in those areas.

Come by after a blow you'll see the Beaches

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 10, 2021, 10:31:20 AM

If we expediate climate change, we can raise the sea levels enough to wash away all of those houses. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 10, 2021, 10:43:31 AM

Some, but not all. Far from it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 10, 2021, 10:44:41 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 10, 2021, 10:31:20 AM

If we expediate climate change, we can raise the sea levels enough to wash away all of those houses.

Its time to invest in the higher ground right now

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 10, 2021, 10:46:18 AM

I have

about 1,000 feet above sea level

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 10, 2021, 10:46:32 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 10, 2021, 10:44:41 AM

Its time to invest in the higher ground right now

(https://i.imgur.com/Ft2Znst.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 10, 2021, 10:46:45 AM

beaches are nice places to visit

wouldn't want to live there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 10, 2021, 10:50:08 AM

You don't want tan feet and a wet swimsuit hanging in every bathroom?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 10, 2021, 10:50:49 AM

and sand in everything all the time?

nope

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 10, 2021, 10:52:16 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 10, 2021, 10:50:49 AM

and sand in everything all the time?

nope

You definitely want to scrap your Vegas retirement plans if you don't want sand in everything all the time. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 10, 2021, 10:55:46 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 10, 2021, 10:50:49 AM

and sand in everything all the time?

nope

(https://i.imgur.com/oV8tsUn.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 10, 2021, 10:55:59 AM

Ed Zachery much better to roll in the hay

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 10, 2021, 10:59:36 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 10, 2021, 10:52:16 AM

You definitely want to scrap your Vegas retirement plans if you don't want sand in everything all the time.

I was raised in Galveston 

Had 3 boys in our family and lived by Offatts Bayou

dont remember our house having a sand problem

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 10, 2021, 11:04:05 AM

I don't like the beach. I like drinking and looking at water, including the ocean, but I'd prefer it from a covered patio somewhere. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 10, 2021, 11:06:15 AM

Quote from: utee94 on May 10, 2021, 10:55:46 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/oV8tsUn.png)

Well in his defense the line worked.

She swooned. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 10, 2021, 11:12:39 AM

Walking on the beaches, looking at the peaches...

https://youtu.be/NuT5KUA7iaY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 10, 2021, 11:21:54 AM

be stuck here the whole summer, well what a bummer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2021, 11:37:24 AM

I bring up you tube videos on the TV of the beach or mountains with soothing music at dinner.

Someday, we may mostly take virtual vacations.  Some of the 80" OLED TVs at Costco are stunning.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 10, 2021, 11:47:04 AM

I suppose I could play virtual golf

if there was a young lady to bring more Budweiser

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 10, 2021, 12:14:49 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 10, 2021, 11:47:04 AM

I suppose I could play virtual golf

if there was a young lady to bring more Budweiser

Ooo, those don't usually end well. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVcJbkLJEuI

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 10, 2021, 12:54:47 PM

some very weird stuff

no wonder I don't watch movies

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 10, 2021, 01:05:05 PM

It was actually a TV show, where each episode is a Twilight Zone-esque short story.

In that one the guy is an astronaut that was cryogenically frozen for his journey. When he awakens he learns from a past lover that he has crash landed off course. So at first they are having all kinds of sex and life on a deserted space station is great, but he slowly figures out over the course of the episode that it is all a simulation controlled by this ex lover.

So he calls her out and demands to be let out of the simulation, which is where this clip picks up. She reluctantly agrees and shows him how terrifying and hopeless his actual situation is. Then mercifully she starts his simulation over from the beginning and he's just like "you know what, I might as well just roll with it."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 10, 2021, 01:19:55 PM

weird

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 10, 2021, 01:51:38 PM

I love the beach life.  Yeah, sand everywhere.  Flip-flops.  Walking a lot.  The sound of the waves.  The smell.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on May 10, 2021, 05:41:10 PM

I'm always amazed at how little I know. I had to buy a cooler so stopped at Target. Decided to eat lunch and saw Chicken Salad Chick near the Target. Gave it a shot, and it was pretty good. I thought it was just some random spot but apparently they have 189 locations. I did not know there was that kind of demand for chicken salad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 10, 2021, 06:01:20 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on May 10, 2021, 05:41:10 PM

I'm always amazed at how little I know. I had to buy a cooler so stopped at Target. Decided to eat lunch and saw Chicken Salad Chick near the Target. Gave it a shot, and it was pretty good. I thought it was just some random spot but apparently they have 189 locations. I did not know there was that kind of demand for chicken salad.

never heard of it

must not be in Houston area

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 10, 2021, 06:08:52 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 10, 2021, 07:05:08 AM

The Gulf Coast, from Sarasota to Marco, is very nice, and NOT boring. No, we don't have much of what you see below. South Beach can keep that shit, and the gang banging that comes with it.

(https://i.imgur.com/2spqUJP.jpg)

Badge, if you talk it up, then people move there, and then you get that. You want to say you live in an armpit, lest the Californians come running in. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 10, 2021, 06:35:58 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 10, 2021, 06:08:52 PM

Badge, if you talk it up, then people move there, and then you get that. You want to say you live in an armpit, lest the Californians come running in.

just talk to utee for some pointers

He's an expert at that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 10, 2021, 06:48:14 PM

Pretty sure the cat's already out of the bag with Florida. 

Or if you prefer, the crustacean has left the bus station. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 10, 2021, 06:48:24 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 10, 2021, 06:35:58 PM

just talk to utee for some pointers

He's an expert at that

Not good enough, apparently.  Still lots of idiots moving here, despite all my dire warnings.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 11, 2021, 06:36:43 AM

Quote from: utee94 on May 10, 2021, 06:48:24 PM

 Still lots of idiots moving here, despite all my dire warnings.

You keep talking like that and Bwarb & FF are going to cancel their plans

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 11, 2021, 07:10:48 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/sQSCLHB.png)  (https://i.imgur.com/x649mIQ.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/xFIF3Yi.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 11, 2021, 07:34:50 AM

We looked pretty hard at Florida as the wife wanted to be near a beach and I wanted to be in a low/no tax state.

I'm sure a lot of folks think that way.  You can have a pool with one of those screens over the whole thing fairly cheaply.

And play golf nearly year round.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 11, 2021, 07:43:07 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/qnAMkYh.png)  (https://i.imgur.com/ifkO9sK.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 11, 2021, 01:05:10 PM

Images: 33-story luxury tower breaks ground in Midtown | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/midtown-development-apartments-construction-high-rise-greystar)

Another project just started near us, more apts.  I noticed that today when we were out, site prep and demo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 11, 2021, 01:15:42 PM

Whatever floats your boat, I suppose. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 11, 2021, 01:20:42 PM

I saw a photo of a nice boat today with the name "Unsinkable II".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 11, 2021, 01:25:56 PM

nice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 11, 2021, 01:40:07 PM

That reminds me: how did the movie "Final Destination" have sequels?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 11, 2021, 01:52:00 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 11, 2021, 01:20:42 PM

I saw a photo of a nice boat today with the name "Unsinkable II".

wonder where Unsinkable I is

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 11, 2021, 02:18:19 PM

I have been shifting my stocks into raw materials over the past few months, with some success.  FCX has done well and NANR is an ETF on raw materials in NA.

Shifting away from tech some.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 11, 2021, 02:42:24 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 11, 2021, 01:52:00 PM

wonder where Unsinkable I is

I don't

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 11, 2021, 03:09:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 11, 2021, 01:20:42 PM

I saw a photo of a nice boat today with the name "Unsinkable II".

My favorite of all time was a sailboat: Breaking Wind

Locally we've got a lot of Duffy electric boats both on Lake Mission Viejo and that tool around in Newport Harbor. Being an electrical engineer, I dig some of the good names I see on some of those. But most aren't funny to non-EEs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 11, 2021, 03:14:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 11, 2021, 02:18:19 PM

I have been shifting my stocks into raw materials over the past few months, with some success.  FCX has done well and NANR is an ETF on raw materials in NA.

Shifting away from tech some.

Tech is gonna be super strong for all of 2022 I'd say.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 11, 2021, 03:15:41 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 11, 2021, 02:18:19 PM

I have been shifting my stocks into raw materials over the past few months, with some success.  FCX has done well and NANR is an ETF on raw materials in NA.

Shifting away from tech some.

Tech is interesting... There are shortages everywhere, particularly semiconductors, but quite a few other areas too--including a lot of things requiring those chips.

That creates a dynamic where profits can be very high on your sales--if you can build enough to actually be able to sell anything. Tons of opportunity for the companies that can manage their supply chain, inventories, production, and sales correctly. But it sure ain't easy.

A more adept investor than I could probably find the gold in them thar hills... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 11, 2021, 03:17:46 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 11, 2021, 03:15:41 PM

Tech is interesting... There are shortages everywhere, particularly semiconductors, but quite a few other areas too--including a lot of things requiring those chips.

That creates a dynamic where profits can be very high on your sales--if you can build enough to actually be able to sell anything. Tons of opportunity for the companies that can manage their supply chain, inventories, production, and sales correctly. But it sure ain't easy.

A more adept investor than I could probably find the gold in them thar hills...

Definitely true in the short term.  And in the long term, as the supply chains free up, then production will ramp.  Prices should fall but so will material costs, so I think Tech should be sitting pretty for the next 1.5 years or so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 11, 2021, 03:31:02 PM

Quote from: utee94 on May 11, 2021, 03:17:46 PM

Definitely true in the short term.  And in the long term, as the supply chains free up, then production will ramp.  Prices should fall but so will material costs, so I think Tech should be sitting pretty for the next 1.5 years or so.

Agreed, but I do think there's a lot to unpack when you say "tech". Some companies are going to execute better than others in this environment.

Net consumers of hardware will be in a much worse position than net producers of hardware...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 11, 2021, 03:32:27 PM

Still nobody but me trying to farm Chia? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 11, 2021, 03:48:28 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 11, 2021, 03:32:27 PM

Still nobody but me trying to farm Chia?

My i s c & a aggie wife makes a healthy chia seed pudding that's actually pretty tasty.

She purchases the chia seeds though, rather than farming them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 11, 2021, 03:58:38 PM

in other news...............

DETROIT – A former president of the United Auto Workers who took part in a scheme along with other union officials that embezzled at least $1.5 million in member funds for lavish trips, golfing, alcohol and other luxuries was sentenced Tuesday to 21 months in prison.

Dennis Williams is the highest-ranking union official to be sentenced as part of a multiyear corruption probe into the prominent American union. He is one of 15 people to have been charged, including three Fiat Chrysler executives and his successor who is awaiting sentencing.

Williams pleaded guilty in September to conspiring with other union officials to embezzle hundreds of thousands of dollars as part of a plea deal with federal prosecutors. Under terms of the agreement, Williams’ sentence would be between 18 months and 24 months.

Federal prosecutors recommended the maximum sentencing guidelines for Williams, who led the union from 2014 to 2018. In court documents, they described Williams as being intricately involved with the illegal activities and living a “double life.”

“Dennis Williams tried to live two lives. On the one hand, at public events, he excoriated the things that were ‘wrong in the United States of America’ because union members ‘cannot buy the things they build,’” assistant U.S. attorneys wrote last week in a sentencing memo. “But in private, he exploited the hundreds of thousands of UAW members that he led.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 12, 2021, 10:47:09 AM

not much traffic through the entire board since yesterday afternoon

did some of y'all get jobs?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 12, 2021, 11:20:37 AM

I've been proof reading Book Four and adding some material.

And I had problems yesterday with the ticker for some reason, seem OK today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 12, 2021, 11:32:55 AM

I figured that we all just finally got tired of one another, simultaneously. Like the message board version of a mutual breakup. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 12, 2021, 11:35:19 AM

Present.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 12, 2021, 11:49:33 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 12, 2021, 11:20:37 AM

I've been proof reading Book Four and adding some material.

And I had problems yesterday with the ticker for some reason, seem OK today.

glad you're feeling better

I was busy hoisting frosted schooners of Coors Banquet and eating Charlie Boy sammiches

my buddy Ben was in town and buying................


(https://i.imgur.com/liDwNiG.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 12, 2021, 11:51:17 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 12, 2021, 10:47:09 AM

not much traffic through the entire board since yesterday afternoon

did some of y'all get jobs?

The tennis talk put everyone off...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 12, 2021, 11:57:02 AM

Drizzling here, the wife is out for something or other, I told her to get some has, we were below half, if there was no line.  She didn't go to Costco and texted me premium was $4.60 but no line.  huh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 12, 2021, 11:57:35 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gQ6AlTAyow

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 12, 2021, 12:10:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 12, 2021, 11:20:37 AM

I've been proof reading Book Four and adding some material.

And I had problems yesterday with the ticker for some reason, seem OK today.

I still need to read books 2 and 3... Got myself sucked into a sci-fi series known as The Expanse--apparently it's a TV show on Amazon Prime now too.

Just started book 5 of that one... Just started reading the series two weeks ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 12, 2021, 12:13:16 PM

I tried to insert more conflict, I'm not good at it, I like easy going better.

If any of you ever want to "publish" a paperback, Amazon makes it easy to do, it might be just an autobiography you write for friends and family.

I've made $31 so far in royalties.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 12, 2021, 12:15:13 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 12, 2021, 11:49:33 AM

I was busy hoisting frosted schooners of Coors Banquet and eating Charlie Boy sammiches

my buddy Ben was in town and buying................


(https://i.imgur.com/liDwNiG.jpg)

Looks like an AA meeting to me.........or a Mexican Stand Off to see who reaches for their wallet 1st

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 12, 2021, 01:28:38 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 12, 2021, 12:13:16 PM

I tried to insert more conflict, I'm not good at it, I like easy going better.

If any of you ever want to "publish" a paperback, Amazon makes it easy to do, it might be just an autobiography you write for friends and family.

I've made $31 so far in royalties.

enough to buy yourself a nice bottle of wine

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 12, 2021, 04:18:40 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 10, 2021, 07:05:08 AM

The Gulf Coast, from Sarasota to Marco, is very nice, and NOT boring. No, we don't have much of what you see below. South Beach can keep that shit, and the gang banging that comes with it.
[img width=273.429 height=188]https://i.imgur.com/2spqUJP.jpg[/img]

The population explosion in Florida over the last 50-75 years just astounds me.

My Grandparents started wintering in Sarasota in the late 60's, early 70's. Population of Sarasota City and County:

• 1950: 19k, 29k
• 1960: 34k, 77k
• 1970: 40k, 120k
• 1980: 49k, 203k
• 1990: 51k, 278k
• 2000: 53k, 326k
• 2010: 52k, 379k
• 2019: 58k, 434k

Forget @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) 's stock advice, just get a DeLorean and go back and buy cheap farmland in outlying Sarasota County in 1950.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 12, 2021, 04:30:25 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 12, 2021, 04:18:40 PM

The population explosion in Florida over the last 50-75 years just astounds me.

My Grandparents started wintering in Sarasota in the late 60's, early 70's. Population of Sarasota City and County:

• 1950: 19k, 29k
• 1960: 34k, 77k
• 1970: 40k, 120k
• 1980: 49k, 203k
• 1990: 51k, 278k
• 2000: 53k, 326k
• 2010: 52k, 379k
• 2019: 58k, 434k

Forget @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) 's stock advice, just get a DeLorean and go back and buy cheap farmland in outlying Sarasota County in 1950.

For comparison, my County in Ohio is a "Ring" County bordering Cuyahoga County (Cleveland). Thus, it has grown relatively rapidly as it has been absorbing refugees from Cleveland's crime and urban blight. Medina City and County population:

• 1950: 5k, 40k
• 1960: 8k, 65k
• 1970: 11k, 83k
• 1980: 15k, 113k
• 1990: 19k, 122k
• 2000: 25k, 151k
• 2010: 27k, 172k
• 2019: 26k, 180k

My relatively fast growing County had nearly 1/2 again the population of Sarasota County 70 years ago and today has well below half the population of Sarasota County.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 12, 2021, 05:08:33 PM

Pinellas County (St. Pete) probably has the most unique population history of anywhere.
1940   91,852     47.8%
1950   159,249   73.4%
1960   374,665   135.3%.....yes, it doubled + a third
1970   522,329   39.4%
1980   728,531   39.5%
1990   851,659    16.9%
2000   921,482    8.2%
2010   916,482    -0.5%
2020   978,872    9.4%

If you're unfamiliar, "What happened?" you might ask. 
It's full.  There's nowhere for it to grow.  There's a bay and an ocean and a border.  I'm guessing the recent 9% growth is strictly vertical, in taller buildings.  There's literally no more landmass to grown into.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2021, 08:25:27 AM

Watch Quarter-Mile Run That Got World's Fastest Corvette C8 Booted (motor1.com) (https://www.motor1.com/news/506744/fastest-corvette-booted-drag-race/?fbclid=IwAR0XPiq8HsZ9VRJ93sICs5QlNNNopWMTMRMIaUGWmMO77MfpyAQrlJyxkI4)

The Corvette, aptly named Phoenix after [color=var(--main-link-color)]going through a significant rebuild and strengthening[/color] (https://www.motor1.com/news/437092/twin-turbo-chevy-corvette-blow-engine/), is capable of handling up to 1,200 horsepower (894 kilowatts). It laid down a [color=var(--main-link-color)]record-setting 9.41-second quarter-mile run at 144.94 miles per hour[/color] (https://www.motor1.com/news/492950/twin-turbo-corvette-quarter-mile-record/) (233.5 kilometers per hour) earlier this year. The car's latest outing didn't break those numbers, but it did break the track's rules. The car, which is street legal, posted a sub-10-second quarter-mile time, and that was a no-no.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2021, 08:27:21 AM

Back in the day, if you had a "fast car" and wanted a good quarter mile time, it was critical to launch appropriately, just burying the throttle would get you smoke but little acceleration, especially with a clutch.  Now its "easy", you bury the throttle and the brakes at the same time and then just release the brakes.

Some computer does the work.  You get minimal wheel spin, just at the edge of traction.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on May 13, 2021, 08:33:40 AM

Ohio having a lottery for people who get vaccinated. Kind of weird, but fun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 13, 2021, 08:36:37 AM

things have been more weird than fun for over a year

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2021, 08:55:22 AM

Images: Tower built atop old downtown parking garage eyes summer debut | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/downtown-apartments-for-rent-ascent-peachtree)

Studios with just over 600 square feet begin at $1,560 monthly. On the flipside, the largest two-bedroom penthouses (1,315 square feet) are commanding rents of $5,500 that could seem astronomical by downtown standards.


Ouch, downtown here is not in my view a great place to live.  I'd pass, you can do better in midtown.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 13, 2021, 08:56:32 AM

Meanwhile, in Memphis...

https://twitter.com/mwizniak/status/1392823565427347458?s=20

Everyone involved is lucky that the bridge isn't in the water. Recall a much smaller failure than this one sent the 35W bridge into the Mississippi River back in 2007.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 13, 2021, 09:04:40 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 13, 2021, 08:36:37 AM

things have been more weird than fun for over a year

Rock-and-roller cola wars, I can't take it anymore!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 13, 2021, 09:06:30 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on May 13, 2021, 08:56:32 AM

Meanwhile, in Memphis...

https://twitter.com/mwizniak/status/1392823565427347458?s=20

Everyone involved is lucky that the bridge isn't in the water. Recall a much smaller failure than this one sent the 35W bridge into the Mississippi River back in 2007.

(https://i.imgur.com/CaGGwXw.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 13, 2021, 09:14:26 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on May 13, 2021, 08:56:32 AM

Meanwhile, in Memphis...

https://twitter.com/mwizniak/status/1392823565427347458?s=20

Everyone involved is lucky that the bridge isn't in the water. Recall a much smaller failure than this one sent the 35W bridge into the Mississippi River back in 2007.

All we need is an infrastructure bill, that actually contains money for infrastructure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2021, 09:19:06 AM

Anyone know how a sizeable piece of steel can crack like that?  Vibration over time?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 13, 2021, 09:32:58 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 13, 2021, 09:14:26 AM

All we need is an infrastructure bill, that actually contains money for infrastructure.

pork and redistribution grease the skids for everyone

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2021, 09:39:03 AM

It would be pretty easy to pass a bill funding highway repairs and updates, if that was an option.

I know the I-75/71 bridge in Cincy is very overdue for replacement, one of these days it will be "in the news".

Hopefully, just because of a crack, not a failure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 13, 2021, 09:50:19 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 13, 2021, 09:19:06 AM

Anyone know how a sizeable piece of steel can crack like that?  Vibration over time?

Clean shear-offs like that are usually caused by fatigue loading. Think of bending a paper clip back and forth until it breaks.

That said, IIRC, fatigue problems are found far more often in deep I-beams, not tubular members. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2021, 09:55:08 AM

I know from standing on normal bridges they vibrate a LOT with traffic/trucks.  it's impressive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 13, 2021, 10:00:35 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 13, 2021, 09:39:03 AM

It would be pretty easy to pass a bill funding highway repairs and updates, if that was an option.

I know the I-75/71 bridge in Cincy is very overdue for replacement, one of these days it will be "in the news".

Hopefully, just because of a crack, not a failure.

In the state I live in, which isn’t terribly far from your state they had like a five year Odyssey to try to pass a bill to fix up roads.

granted, they had to pass a particularly small tax to help fund it, and that proves pretty difficult

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 13, 2021, 10:01:33 AM

Steel Bridge Design Handbook | American Institute of Steel Construction (aisc.org) (https://www.aisc.org/nsba/design-and-estimation-resources/steel-bridge-design-handbook/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 13, 2021, 10:03:19 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 13, 2021, 08:55:22 AM

Images: Tower built atop old downtown parking garage eyes summer debut | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/downtown-apartments-for-rent-ascent-peachtree)

Studios with just over 600 square feet begin at $1,560 monthly. On the flipside, the largest two-bedroom penthouses (1,315 square feet) are commanding rents of $5,500 that could seem astronomical by downtown standards.


Ouch, downtown here is not in my view a great place to live.  I'd pass, you can do better in midtown.

I’m always fascinated by the waves of economics that impact that. In theory, if the places are too expensive, they won’t sell. But just having more expensive housing probably drags the price people will accept up.

(says the person who is putting off serious apartment hunting in a burgeoning metro area)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 13, 2021, 10:04:49 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 13, 2021, 10:04:20 AM

couldn't you just give us the  abridged version?

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 13, 2021, 10:01:33 AM

Steel Bridge Design Handbook | American Institute of Steel Construction (aisc.org) (https://www.aisc.org/nsba/design-and-estimation-resources/steel-bridge-design-handbook/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 13, 2021, 10:06:46 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 13, 2021, 09:55:08 AM

I know from standing on normal bridges they vibrate a LOT with traffic/trucks.  it's impressive.

Which is exactly what we want them to do. 

That said, despite knowing why they move, how they move, and can figure about how far it's moving, it's unsettling as hell when a semi goes by and the bridge deck starts bouncing like a trampoline.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 13, 2021, 10:06:50 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 13, 2021, 10:00:35 AM

In the state I live in, which isn’t terribly far from your state they had like a five year Odyssey to try to pass a bill to fix up roads.

granted, they had to pass a particularly small tax to help fund it, and that proves pretty difficult

the county here used COVID funds to put more gravel on rural roads

one of the school districts took the county to court wanting those funds spent elsewhere
but, the court sided with the county engineer's office

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 13, 2021, 10:11:06 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 13, 2021, 10:01:33 AM

Steel Bridge Design Handbook | American Institute of Steel Construction (aisc.org) (https://www.aisc.org/nsba/design-and-estimation-resources/steel-bridge-design-handbook/)

I still have my copy of that from Steel and Reinforced Concrete Design. Probably out of date, though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2021, 10:15:28 AM

It's funny when you're growing up and discover how flexible bridges, skyscrapers, plane wings, etc are and have to be.  If they weren't, they'd fail in days, not decades.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 13, 2021, 10:21:37 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2021, 10:15:28 AM

It's funny when you're growing up and discover how flexible bridges, skyscrapers, plane wings, etc are and have to be.  If they weren't, they'd fail in days, not decades. 

Minutes, more likely. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 13, 2021, 10:21:59 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/DwjzNTE.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 13, 2021, 10:23:32 AM

In politics, it's a lot more sexy to get credit for spending $500M building something new [especially if you get your name on it] than to spend $500M making sure something someone 30 years ago built doesn't fall down. It's hard to point your constituents to "ongoing maintenance" to justify what a good job you're doing for them. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 13, 2021, 10:31:52 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2021, 10:15:28 AM

It's funny when you're growing up and discover how flexible bridges, skyscrapers, plane wings, etc are and have to be.  If they weren't, they'd fail in days, not decades. 

If you ever find yourself in Taipei, make sure to visit the observation deck of Taipei 101...

They use a "tuned mass damper" to reduce sway of the building during typhoons and earthquakes. What's a tuned mass damper, you ask?

Well, it's a gigantic steel ball suspended by steel cables on top of pistons... https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/tuned-mass-damper-of-taipei-101 https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/design/a16819/tapei-101-mass-damper-record/

And by "gigantic" I mean 800 tons. 

Here's it swaying during a typhoon...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqELmBNyWfU

Pictures, videos, and even saying the words "800 tons" etc don't do it justice... Actually seeing that thing really gives you a much better sense of just what sort of scale I'm talking about. 

Plus Taipei is cool as hell. I highly recommend visiting ;-) 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 13, 2021, 10:39:30 AM

^^^^^^^


(https://i.imgur.com/ceL8KUk.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 13, 2021, 10:57:01 AM

I've used Taipei 101 as an example of a tuned mass damper for several of my STEM outreach presentations.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2021, 10:58:51 AM

I thought Taipei 101 was a little league team...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 13, 2021, 11:02:43 AM

I still remember one night I was in Taipei on a business trip and went to a brewpub...

• Thai food
• German-style beer
• American pop music on the radio
• The totally hilarious Taiwan "Super Basketball League" on the TVs above the bar

Talk about a cultural mishmash lol...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 13, 2021, 11:04:14 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 13, 2021, 10:31:52 AM

If you ever find yourself in Taipei, make sure to visit the observation deck of Taipei 101...

Kind of like  big Jock strap when you really think of it.
Saw video's of it a while back,Wonder when those cables that suspend that ball are inspected.And I'm sure they factored in replacing  them when the time comes - that would be trick

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2021, 11:26:30 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 13, 2021, 10:31:52 AM

If you ever find yourself in Taipei, make sure to visit the observation deck of Taipei 101...

They use a "tuned mass damper" to reduce sway of the building during typhoons and earthquakes. What's a tuned mass damper, you ask?

Well, it's a gigantic steel ball suspended by steel cables on top of pistons... https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/tuned-mass-damper-of-taipei-101 https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/design/a16819/tapei-101-mass-damper-record/

And by "gigantic" I mean 800 tons.

Here's it swaying during a typhoon...


Pictures, videos, and even saying the words "800 tons" etc don't do it justice... Actually seeing that thing really gives you a much better sense of just what sort of scale I'm talking about.

Plus Taipei is cool as hell. I highly recommend visiting ;-)

There's a "your mama" joke somewhere in there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 13, 2021, 11:52:15 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 13, 2021, 09:14:26 AM

All we need is an infrastructure bill, that actually contains money for infrastructure.

yeah no shit. we don't make or build anything here anymore and have crumbling infrastructure. meanwhile China builds skycrappers, roads, bridges, and dams in what seems like weeks. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 13, 2021, 11:53:23 AM

Fauci caught lying again...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw0n3HZXLmo

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 13, 2021, 11:59:22 AM

He badly needs a public relations manager

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 13, 2021, 12:04:50 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 10, 2021, 08:46:28 AM

I've visited uncrowded beaches in Florida, they are there, but kids prefer the other kind.

We visited Miami Beach and it was pretty quiet when we were there.  We stayed across the street from a sliver of a park and then beach. 

The wife tripped on a sidewalk and burst an artery in her forehead, and also ruined her shoulder at the same time.  Had an interesting ride in the ambulance, they took good care of her.  She was really  bleeding.

She had the shoulder done last August, the full monte, unlike mine.  She said it was really bad, the recovery.  rotator cuff.

I like the uncrowded, secluded beaches if they are kept up well. Problem is, I've found that most beaches in small podunk butt fk egypt towns in North Florida/West Florida have disgusting beaches that have tons of seaweed and stink like rotten dead fish.

The beaches in South Florida are super nice because those counties/cities spend a shit ton of money maintaining and improving them. Plus the scenery (women) is wayyyyyy better. Like 1,000,000x better. At least.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 13, 2021, 12:07:38 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 12, 2021, 04:18:40 PM

The population explosion in Florida over the last 50-75 years just astounds me.

It's insane. Just look at the last 20 years. When I moved to FL there was around 16 million people. It overtook NY to become the third most populated state in the union, and it's pushing on 23 million now and it's growing even faster than before because of the pandemic. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 13, 2021, 12:08:49 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 13, 2021, 09:14:26 AM

All we need is an infrastructure bill, that actually contains money for infrastructure.

This drives me nuts - I voted against every fookin' sintax they drag out for NBA/NFL/MLB/NHL play grounds.And this is why,finances that prudently be allocated to the greater good.Intead of already obscenely rich team owners and millionaire Athletes .When it shakes out economists have stated communities could have redirected funds instead of the comparitively little that comes in that doesn't compensate for the over all costs.I honestly believe the votes were rigged.I don't know anyone who has stated they like to pay about 1.50 at least more for a case of beer for contests they can hardly afford to attend.Communities should put a vote up to revoke such assinine expenditures

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2021, 12:26:38 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/Lf4ygUz.jpg)

From our walk this morning.  A trifle cool.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2021, 12:27:55 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/IpyaJvr.png)

Without the finger ... this lawn is often packed on weekends ...  our building is there somewhere behind the trees.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2021, 01:13:48 PM

Our priorities are our priorities.  
This is the argument against a democracy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2021, 01:24:06 PM

I've heard better arguments against pure democracy.

It was fun watching little tykes come up to the horses.  The officers said they had a choice of being downtown or in the park today.  Ha.  Some job.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 13, 2021, 01:37:06 PM

better than the officers that did not have a choice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2021, 01:38:42 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 13, 2021, 01:37:06 PM

better than the officers that did not have a choice

Yeah, the APD has 13 horses, matched with an officer.  I chatted with them about their duties variously, they were quite friendly, and a lot of small kids wanted to come up.

Including me.  The wife gave me sanitizing gel afterwards.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 13, 2021, 01:39:22 PM

I don't think anyone can dispute that the best form of government is a perfectly beneficent and perfectly omniscient dictator. 

Of course, that form of government doesn't exist and never will.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2021, 01:40:36 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 13, 2021, 01:39:22 PM

I don't think anyone can dispute that the best form of government is a perfectly beneficent and perfectly omniscient dictator.

Of course, that form of government doesn't exist and never will.

To the extent it gets approximated at times, the transition to a new leader seems to be an issue.  But Democracy is the worst possible form of government, so saith Churchill.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 13, 2021, 09:02:49 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 13, 2021, 01:40:36 PM

But Democracy is the worst possible form of government, so saith Churchill.

He also saideth "History will be kind to me for I intend to write it"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 13, 2021, 09:24:48 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 13, 2021, 01:40:36 PM

To the extent it gets approximated at times, the transition to a new leader seems to be an issue.  But Democracy is the worst possible form of government, so saith Churchill.

This was Churchill's actual quote:


It has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time; but there is the broad feeling in our country that the people should rule, and that public opinion expressed by all constitutional means, should shape, guide, and control the actions of Ministers who are their servants and not their masters.

Churchill was very much a fan of Democracy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 13, 2021, 10:18:13 PM

Was reading an interesting article about drug dogs, basically that they're extremely ineffective in accurately detecting drugs. But they are very effective at indicating drugs are present, which allows them to function as probable cause on four legs. That in turn can cause some issues for innocent people. 

In retrospect, probably a system that needs to be phased out (this would be different than the dogs that actually lead you toward something, though honestly, who really knows how good those are either?)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 13, 2021, 10:36:48 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 13, 2021, 10:18:13 PM

Was reading an interesting article about drug dogs, basically that they're extremely ineffective in accurately detecting drugs. But they are very effective at indicating drugs are present, which allows them to function as probable cause on four legs. That in turn can cause some issues for innocent people.

In retrospect, probably a system that needs to be phased out (this would be different than the dogs that actually lead you toward something, though honestly, who really knows how good those are either?)

seems pretty simple to fix

cant they just test the dogs and weed out the bad ones

and if none are acceptable then discontinue the practice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 13, 2021, 11:12:25 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 13, 2021, 10:36:48 PM

seems pretty simple to fix

cant they just test the dogs and weed out the bad ones

and if none are acceptable then discontinue the practice

They'd have to do more stringent tests than they do now. There's less emphasis on false positives than there probably should be.

There's also a weird issue because the dogs don't really "know" what they're looking for. They often respond to subtle cues from handlers, and the handler of course usually wants to find drugs to justify being called out. (There's also the other weird element in which saying you "smell" weed is often also free probably cause, because as a citizen, I can't prove someone didn't smell weed, and thus shouldn't have ransacked my property). 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 13, 2021, 11:24:27 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 13, 2021, 11:12:25 PM

They'd have to do more stringent tests than they do now. There's less emphasis on false positives than there probably should be.

There's also a weird issue because the dogs don't really "know" what they're looking for. They often respond to subtle cues from handlers, and the handler of course usually wants to find drugs to justify being called out. (There's also the other weird element in which saying you "smell" weed is often also free probably cause, because as a citizen, I can't prove someone didn't smell weed, and thus shouldn't have ransacked my property).

so youre saying the police have another agenda to being able to violate ones rights and the dogs are just a way to search a car

when there really isnt any reason

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 13, 2021, 11:40:18 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 13, 2021, 11:24:27 PM

so youre saying the police have another agenda to being able to violate ones rights and the dogs are just a way to search a car

when there really isnt any reason

I'm saying police often want broad leeway to dig into things. In theory our constitution creates a slightly higher bar, in practice, less so. It's the same reason both acting nervous and acting too calm can be cause for something in justifying a search or whatnot. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 13, 2021, 11:52:39 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 13, 2021, 11:40:18 PM

I'm saying police often want broad leeway to dig into things. In theory our constitution creates a slightly higher bar, in practice, less so. It's the same reason both acting nervous and acting too calm can be cause for something in justifying a search or whatnot.

cities pay big bucks all the time cause a cop violated the rights of a driver or passenger

i guess the only protection you have is to get a smart phone and record and encounter 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 14, 2021, 08:40:10 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 13, 2021, 10:18:13 PM

Was reading an interesting article about drug dogs, basically that they're extremely ineffective in accurately detecting drugs. But they are very effective at indicating drugs are present, which allows them to function as probable cause on four legs. That in turn can cause some issues for innocent people.

I recall debarking from a cruise ship years back, a dog was sniffing through a long line of luggage, a hundred people or more, he sat down next to the bag of a person behind me and looked at his handler, but he didn't do that for the 30 or so in front of us.  Something triggered his reaction to that specific bag, he had his head down sniffing, he didn't look at his handler at all.

I imagine we've all had dogs do this to our luggage in line, they usually go the entire way without any signal to investigate.  Of course, when standing in line for reentry to the US, your "rights" are limited.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 14, 2021, 09:55:31 AM

in other news.......... this didn't belong on the COVID thread

LONDON (AP) — British, European and American diplomats and donors have voiced serious concerns about how the World Health Organization handled sex abuse allegations involving its own staff during an outbreak of Ebola in Congo, as reported this week by The Associated Press.

On Tuesday, the AP published an investigation documenting that senior WHO management was informed of multiple sex abuse allegations involving at least two of its doctors during the epidemic in 2018.

A notarized contract obtained by the AP showed that two WHO staffers signed off on an agreement between WHO’s Dr. Jean-Paul Ngandu and a young woman he allegedly impregnated in Congo. In it, Ngandu promised to pay the young woman money, cover her pregnancy costs and buy her a plot of land. The contract was made “to protect the integrity and reputation of the organization,” Ngandu said.

“The U.K. has a zero tolerance approach when it comes to sexual exploitation and harassment — and that extends to all international organizations that we fund,” said Simon Manley, the U.K.’s ambassador to the U.N. in Geneva. “We are speaking with WHO and other major donors as a matter of urgency to establish the facts.” Britain is WHO’s second biggest donor, after the U.S.

The U.S. State Department had no immediate comment.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 14, 2021, 11:35:09 AM

Turn ons:  ebola virus treatment?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 14, 2021, 12:03:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 14, 2021, 08:40:10 AM

I recall debarking from a cruise ship years back, a dog was sniffing through a long line of luggage, a hundred people or more, he sat down next to the bag of a person behind me and looked at his handler, but he didn't do that for the 30 or so in front of us.  Something triggered his reaction to that specific bag, he had his head down sniffing, he didn't look at his handler at all.

I imagine we've all had dogs do this to our luggage in line, they usually go the entire way without any signal to investigate.  Of course, when standing in line for reentry to the US, your "rights" are limited.

Did they find drugs?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 14, 2021, 12:09:53 PM

They pulled the guy out of line and took him away.  No denouement.  But the dog was at least selective, and the cruise had been to Jamaica.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 14, 2021, 01:09:28 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 14, 2021, 12:09:53 PM

They pulled the guy out of line and took him away.  No denouement.  But the dog was at least selective, and the cruise had been to Jamaica.

This is just not the same as someone being pulled over for no apparent reason and told by  the officer he can smell weed

If there is a lot of this kind of thing going on it needs to stop

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 14, 2021, 01:13:19 PM

not sure how much is a lot, but vehicles with Iowa, Nebraska, South Dakota, Minnesooota, Mizzery, Kansas plates coming back from a visit to Colorado are sometimes pulled over for speeding ( 5 over) and told there is the aroma of weed for a search

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 14, 2021, 01:17:12 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 14, 2021, 01:09:28 PM

This is just not the same as someone being pulled over for no apparent reason and told by  the officer he can smell weed

If there is a lot of this kind of thing going on it needs to stop

I agree,specially when you put the damn thing out 2 states ago

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 14, 2021, 01:34:19 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 13, 2021, 01:39:22 PM

I don't think anyone can dispute that the best form of government is a perfectly beneficent and perfectly omniscient dictator.

Of course, that form of government doesn't exist and never will.

   Oh,King eh?Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!  Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some... farcical aquatic ceremony!

 You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!! I mean, if I went 'round, saying I was an emperor, just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 14, 2021, 01:37:17 PM

moistened bint???

that's insensative

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 14, 2021, 01:41:20 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 14, 2021, 01:37:17 PM

moistened bint???

that's insensative

I hate it when that happens

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 14, 2021, 03:56:49 PM

Nubbz, are you being oppressed?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 14, 2021, 04:44:00 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 14, 2021, 03:56:49 PM

Nubbz, are you being oppressed?

Repressed,Yes I've been drinking Natty Lites,too many crafts over the long Winter Horry nights.......when lonely men struggled to keep their fires lit and their cabins warm............yes dear I'm going to get the pizza

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 14, 2021, 06:06:05 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 13, 2021, 10:18:13 PM

Was reading an interesting article about drug dogs, basically that they're extremely ineffective in accurately detecting drugs. But they are very effective at indicating drugs are present, which allows them to function as probable cause on four legs. That in turn can cause some issues for innocent people.

In retrospect, probably a system that needs to be phased out (this would be different than the dogs that actually lead you toward something, though honestly, who really knows how good those are either?)

Entire "war on drugs" needs to be phased out. Complete waste of over $1 trillion to the US tax payer. Wars in Middle East with Iraq/Afghanistan/Libya and all the additional bombings in Syria, Somalia, Yemen, and Pakistan have cost the US tax payer over $7 trillion easily if not more. 

$8 trillion completely and utterly wasted down the freaking toilet. Imagine what this country would look like if they had spent that money on infrastructure, public housing, R&D, healthcare. My goodness. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 14, 2021, 06:08:20 PM

Government likely would have wasted the money anyway, much of it, but the alternative would have done something beneficial I guess.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 14, 2021, 06:23:30 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 14, 2021, 12:09:53 PM

They pulled the guy out of line and took him away.  No denouement.  But the dog was at least selective, and the cruise had been to Jamaica.

I had that happen once. I was extremely drowsy and walked through the metal detector with my hands in my pockets. It was an Israeli airline and they were not amused.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 15, 2021, 11:11:18 AM

The madness needs to stop.

No one was in custody for any of the shootings, and detectives were investigating.


5 dead, at least 15 wounded in city shootings since Friday afternoon, police say - Chicago Tribune (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-shootings-chicago-violence-20210515-gpntohxl4rfjdfihlzvpif4v6u-story.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 15, 2021, 11:49:16 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 15, 2021, 11:11:18 AM

The madness needs to stop.

No one was in custody for any of the shootings, and detectives were investigating.


5 dead, at least 15 wounded in city shootings since Friday afternoon, police say - Chicago Tribune (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-shootings-chicago-violence-20210515-gpntohxl4rfjdfihlzvpif4v6u-story.html)

Heartbreaking. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 15, 2021, 12:47:52 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/g5drRZr.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 15, 2021, 04:25:04 PM

Fewer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 16, 2021, 11:28:17 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 15, 2021, 11:49:16 AM

Heartbreaking.

THIS is heartbreaking.


2 Chicago police officers shot and wounded - Chicago Tribune


 (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-officers-shot-chicago-police-shootings-violence-20210516-7e6b72x3pzd47oc4hdwguptvoi-story.html)Tom Ahern on Twitter: "BREAKING: Police involved shooting. Two #ChicagoPolice officers shot and transported to Mount Sinai Hospital. Condition unknown. One suspect shot. Condition unknown. PIO in route to hospital. Updates to follow. https://t.co/utoPbRw0qx" / Twitter (https://twitter.com/TomAhernCPD/status/1393912507098599428)
 (https://twitter.com/TomAhernCPD/status/1393912507098599428)
(https://i.imgur.com/qgPgZeC.png) (https://twitter.com/TomAhernCPD/status/1393912507098599428)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 16, 2021, 11:38:43 AM

I just mailed my check for the US Treasury. 


You're welcome.


:'(

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 16, 2021, 01:47:30 PM

The world's longest spiral staircase, apparently ...

(https://i.imgur.com/MALpinF.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on May 16, 2021, 06:19:57 PM

Back from camping. Whoot. Nothing like trying to sleep in a tent with 3 kids and 2 dogs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 16, 2021, 07:40:16 PM

You are supposed to give the kids and dogs their own tent. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 18, 2021, 08:29:54 AM

So, I have been offered a contract to publish my Book by Pegasus, with a catch of course.  I've been reading up on this sort of thing, there are "vanity publishers" who will generate a few copies of your writings for a substantial fee and then do nothing else.  This is a scam, they will print anything you send, even random letters.  There is no vetting at all.

Then there are standard publishing house contracts, and then there is a hybrid, which is what my offer is, they wanted 2500 British pounds from me up front.  I'm trying to understand what else they do aside from print up some copies, there isn't much in the contract requiring them to market or distribute or anything else.  I'm still rereading it.  

On the other hand, Amazon-Kindle has a nice option with which I am pleased, thus far, they print up a book of your design for a pretty small fee, less than $4 per paperback, and offer it for sale as an ebook on their site with 60% royalty of the retail price.

I think I'll stay with Amazon, I have no expectation of being the next mega author, I just enjoy writing, and some folks have said they enjoyed reading my stories.  Few readers have offered substantive comments, beta is one of two exceptions, and CWSooner is another.  I sent the latter hard copies of the three books and would send same to beta if he wants them.  I am finishing proofing Book Four now, which I think will conclude the saga, and I'll be on to something different.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 18, 2021, 10:47:34 AM

Hell CD send me 2500 British Pounds and I'll get your book printed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on May 18, 2021, 12:51:42 PM

Anyone have any home refinancing tips?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 18, 2021, 12:57:04 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on May 18, 2021, 12:51:42 PM

Anyone have any home refinancing tips?

It pays to shop around

be careful of closing costs need to shop that as well as the rate

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2021, 01:04:57 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on May 18, 2021, 12:51:42 PM

Anyone have any home refinancing tips?

Do it would be my best tip, and listen to LH320.

Credit unions are really good for this. The decision maker sits across from you in most cases.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 18, 2021, 02:13:49 PM

The wife is in Delta Credit Union here.  I tried to refinance with them, it was a complete hassle.  They seemed uninterested.  My originall loan was with Rocket and I went back to them through Schwab.  That was super easy, the closing was done here in the condo.  They have access to all my accounts.  I've about paid it off anyway.

After I refinanced, rates plunged even lower.  Dropped my monthly payment by about $400.  If you can lock in a 30 year now, I'd do it, inflation seems certain fairly soonish.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on May 18, 2021, 04:12:44 PM

Shop around to include whether or not you're required to escrow taxes and or insurance.   I hate escrowing but often the lender will stick you w a slightly higher rate if you don't escrow.

My old employer was my lender thus I avoided that 25bp markup .   

I'm also a bigger fan of 15 yr but of course your cash flow situation, other financial plans will dictate this.
. 
a lot of other mortgage advice really exists in a vacuum.  Ex.  Avoid PMI.  Easy to say when you readily have 20%+ equity.  Avoid prepayment penalties.   I wouldn't waste time shopping title, accepted as a racket.  You should avoid paying points.  Pay attention to who will service your loan.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2021, 04:28:22 PM

Title insurance is such bullshit. All you have to do is look at Schedule B to know this. 

I'm a 30 year fan, at less than 3% anyway.

Can make a whole lot more than that in other areas. Someone can pay it off when I croak.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 18, 2021, 04:41:03 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2021, 04:28:22 PM

Title insurance is such bullshit. All you have to do is look at Schedule B to know this.

I'm a 30 year fan, at less than 3% anyway.

Can make a whole lot more than that in other areas. Someone can pay it off when I croak.

In Texas Title insurance is regulated by the state  so rates are uniform

Title insurance is not only for certifying the owner of the property but also to insure there are no hidden leans and easements

There is one case I know of where the new homeowner found out there was a natural gas pipeline running right under the house

Title insurance saved the home owners bacon by paying to have the pipeline rerouted

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on May 18, 2021, 04:55:21 PM

When we originally bought the house, I still had a bankruptcy in my rearview mirror after getting divorced. This had surprisingly little impact on the mortgage or interest rate, except that we had an FHA loan so I have PMI. But home values have skyrocketed and the online calculators have shot up 100K on the home value since then, so we would likely have 20% in equity and I'd like to get rid of it. I would like to get a 15 year loan and hope that the offsets would make it more or less the same monthly cost, but I guess we will see.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 18, 2021, 05:10:17 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on May 18, 2021, 04:55:21 PM

When we originally bought the house, I still had a bankruptcy in my rearview mirror after getting divorced. This had surprisingly little impact on the mortgage or interest rate, except that we had an FHA loan so I have PMI. But home values have skyrocketed and the online calculators have shot up 100K on the home value since then, so we would likely have 20% in equity and I'd like to get rid of it. I would like to get a 15 year loan and hope that the offsets would make it more or less the same monthly cost, but I guess we will see.

Thats what I did by refinancing to a 15 year from a 30 year with about $50 a month more in payment

Ive since paid off the house

had I not done that I would still be paying for another 5 years

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2021, 05:19:02 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 18, 2021, 04:41:03 PM

In Texas Title insurance is regulated by the state  so rates are uniform

Title insurance is not only for certifying the owner of the property but also to insure there are no hidden leans and easements

There is one case I know of where the new homeowner found out there was a natural gas pipeline running right under the house

Title insurance saved the home owners bacon by paying to have the pipeline rerouted

They are regulated by every state.

I read about 20 title commitments a week (we do a lot of ALTA/ACSM Land Title Surveys). I'm very familiar with what they are.

And when they all contain things like this one does:

(https://i.imgur.com/6phdlyN.png)

It pisses me off.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 18, 2021, 05:24:00 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on May 18, 2021, 04:55:21 PM

When we originally bought the house, I still had a bankruptcy in my rearview mirror after getting divorced. This had surprisingly little impact on the mortgage or interest rate, except that we had an FHA loan so I have PMI. But home values have skyrocketed and the online calculators have shot up 100K on the home value since then, so we would likely have 20% in equity and I'd like to get rid of it. I would like to get a 15 year loan and hope that the offsets would make it more or less the same monthly cost, but I guess we will see.

Yeah, FHA loans only let you get rid of PMI when you're under 80% of the ORIGINAL LTV of the house... So if your house goes up 100%, but you've only paid off 10% of the original value at purchase, the only way to get rid of PMI is to refinance. 

I had that happen before my divorce. House value kept going up while loan was [slowly] going down, and it got beyond 80% LTV so I refinanced to ditch PMI. 

Sorry to hear about the bankruptcy. Puts in perspective the fact that I had to sell my house in the divorce and walk away with equity and I've watch RE values just go up and up since [blocking me out of buying]. But at least it beats bankruptcy... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on May 18, 2021, 05:30:58 PM

I gotta say, bankruptcy wasn't bad. I had a lot of debt and a property and mortgage I couldn't get rid of (this was still housing crisis time). So I think I paid 900 bucks in total and all of it was discharged. I thought it would kill my ability to buy a house, but it didn't affect it much at all. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 18, 2021, 05:36:24 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2021, 05:19:02 PM

They are regulated by every state.

I read about 20 title commitments a week (we do a lot of ALTA/ACSM Land Title Surveys). I'm very familiar with what they are.

And when they all contain things like this one does:

[img width=500 height=141.998]https://i.imgur.com/6phdlyN.png[/img]

It pisses me off.

First of all how could a title company insure against something not in the public records

Second am I wrong to think if its not in the public records chances are that its not enforceable

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2021, 05:46:24 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 18, 2021, 05:36:24 PM

First of all how could a title company insure against something not in the public records

Second am I wrong to think if its not in the public records chances are that its not enforceable

No - I've seen many examples of unrecorded documents that have been enforced. Your are paying for title insurance. It should cover everything, but they are too lazy to do any research outside of the recorder of deeds office.

And now I have a question on a deed restriction for our resident shysters:

I'm doing an apartment project right now. The City has approved the concept plan, which depicts 8 apartment buildings, each with six units. This is affordable housing, next to a train station (perfect).

Now we are going through the entitlement process, which for me includes the ALTA survey, preliminary plat and preliminary engineering. I just got off the phone with a shyster, who is concerned about this deed restriction. The restriction states:

"No development consisting of more than 7 single family residences will be permitted on the property."

The deed is from 1945.

The shyster will be asking the title company shyster to insure over this restriction, based on the (home rule) City's commitment to rezone the property.

It will be very interesting what is decided here.

I told the shyster to do some research on case laws.

Of course, deed restrictions that include things like not selling to blacks (you'd be surprised how many of these are out there) or other crap like only selling to Germans, are thrown out.


(I'm using shyster as a term of affection, by the way)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 18, 2021, 06:05:51 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2021, 05:46:24 PM

Now we are going through the entitlement process, which for me includes the ALTA survey, preliminary plat and preliminary engineering. I just got off the phone with a shyster, who is concerned about this deed restriction. The restriction states:

"No development consisting of more than 7 single family residences will be permitted on the property."

The deed is from 1945.

The shyster will be asking the title company shyster to insure over this restriction, based on the (home rule) City's commitment to rezone the property.

It will be very interesting what is decided here.

Who issued the old deed restriction

do they still own the property

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2021, 06:14:33 PM

Very likely they are dead. The deed lists their ages as being 42 and 45. In 1945.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on May 18, 2021, 09:47:42 PM

took a few months but the 18 foot shuffleboard table arrived today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 19, 2021, 12:42:56 PM

Botanical garden exhibit right now:

(https://i.imgur.com/zhVfri7.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 19, 2021, 12:43:35 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/z57NO09.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 19, 2021, 12:44:00 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/dK7Ma0s.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 19, 2021, 01:23:33 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on May 18, 2021, 09:47:42 PM

took a few months but the 18 foot shuffleboard table arrived today.

That floor looks like the same stuff I put in my Kitchen

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 20, 2021, 01:48:29 PM

I read over this contract I was offered a few times.  It is evident it requires the publisher to do little while requiring me to part with $3,550.  Not a fan.  I'm going to use Kindle-Amazon to publish myself, I can get a lot of paperbacks for that much money.

I don't expect many sales obviously, it's just for fun, and I don't need to claim I'm a published author.

I am anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 20, 2021, 03:53:43 PM

Cigar smokers in the Golden State will have to reach a little deeper into their pockets this summer. The California Department of Tax and Fee Administration (CDTFA) is officially implementing a tax hike this July.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 20, 2021, 05:52:50 PM

Cigars are putrid and gross.  I don't really believe much in sin taxes but if cigars were eradicated from the face of the planet I'd be fine with that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 20, 2021, 05:59:27 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 20, 2021, 03:53:43 PM

Cigar smokers in the Golden State will have to reach a little deeper into their pockets this summer. The California Department of Tax and Fee Administration (CDTFA) is officially implementing a tax hike this July.

Of course they can get real Cubans over the border for like two bucks a pop. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 20, 2021, 06:32:21 PM

Quote from: utee94 on May 20, 2021, 05:52:50 PM

Cigars are putrid and gross.  I don't really believe much in sin taxes but if cigars were eradicated from the face of the planet I'd be fine with that.

Eh. In California smoking is not allowed in most public spaces, so you shouldn't be exposed to cigar smoke unless you're in a cigar bar, and I'm assuming you don't go to places like that. 

Beyond that, why does it impact you if they exist or not?

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 20, 2021, 05:59:27 PM

Of course they can get real Cubans over the border for like two bucks a pop.

Yeah, I'm sure in Tijuana I can get "real" Cuban cigars... For two bucks a pop...

More than likely you're going to buy Dominican knockoffs that are sold as being real Cubans, and they're going to be $12/ea for cigars that would actually retail for $6/ea in California. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 20, 2021, 06:58:15 PM

Some Jamaicans assured me their cigars were much better than any Cuban cigars ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 20, 2021, 07:13:12 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 20, 2021, 06:32:21 PM

Yeah, I'm sure in Tijuana I can get "real" Cuban cigars... For two bucks a pop...

More than likely you're going to buy Dominican knockoffs that are sold as being real Cubans, and they're going to be $12/ea for cigars that would actually retail for $6/ea in California.

Well maybe. I haven't been to Mexico since the early 20-ots, and it was Playa Del Car or whatever it's called. They were 2 bucks a pop back then, but you are right. They might have been as authentic as the Bart Simpson t-shirt that said "I'm going to K-Mart, dude." 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 20, 2021, 08:00:54 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 20, 2021, 06:32:21 PM

Eh. In California smoking is not allowed in most public spaces, so you shouldn't be exposed to cigar smoke unless you're in a cigar bar, and I'm assuming you don't go to places like that.

Beyond that, why does it impact you if they exist or not?

Eh. Here, smoking is allowed outdoors pretty much everywhere.  There are many times when I'd love to enjoy dining al fresco, but the smokers still foul the air with their putrid filth.  It carries, for hundreds of yards, easy.

I'm not telling you that you should, or should not, smoke.

I am saying I find it disgusting and it makes me want to vomit.  And I can smell it from hundreds of yards away.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 20, 2021, 10:29:25 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 20, 2021, 06:32:21 PM

Eh. In California smoking is not allowed in most public spaces, so you shouldn't be exposed to cigar smoke unless you're in a cigar bar, and I'm assuming you don't go to places like that.

Beyond that, why does it impact you if they exist or not?

Really some people smoke blunts,some Cigars,some smoke meats,some all 3

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 20, 2021, 11:09:02 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 20, 2021, 06:58:15 PM

Some Jamaicans assured me their cigars were much better than any Cuban cigars ...

better , but you don't get the same buzz

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 21, 2021, 07:37:24 AM

Looks like we are gonna have a great trip to Europe this year.

Vaccinated Americans can now travel to parts of Europe — what to know and how to pay for it | Fox Business (https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/vaccinated-americans-travel-europe-how-to-pay)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 21, 2021, 02:40:20 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on May 18, 2021, 09:47:42 PM

took a few months but the 18 foot shuffleboard table arrived today.

just a 16 footer


https://www.iowabarndoorandmantel.com/shuffle-board

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-0/p526x296/186449056_1948314681994616_5242978480061551024_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=IJw9EK9A1C4AX-ST163&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=7e4339b9a9570f14e3168e2e425d36c9&oe=60CC17F8) (https://www.iowabarndoorandmantel.com/shuffle-board)

no, it's not mine

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 21, 2021, 07:01:16 PM

a possible source of help for the school lunch program??????????????


https://thecounter.org/how-corporations-buy-and-sell-food-made-with-prison-labor/ (https://thecounter.org/how-corporations-buy-and-sell-food-made-with-prison-labor/)

The Counter identified over $40 million in transactions between private food companies, prisons, and prison industries since 2017, including sales to major food industry players like Cargill and the Dairy Farmers of America. Across the country, at least 650 correctional institutions have some sort of food processing, landscaping, or farming operation, according to research by sociologist Joshua Sbicca and feminist geographer-political ecologist Carrie Chennault at Colorado State University.

This article is the first of a three-part series on food production in the nation’s prisons and will focus on prison sales to private businesses. The next stories will focus on sales within the public sector and, then, working conditions and wages in prison jobs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 21, 2021, 07:15:52 PM

In Nevada you can still smoke inside, but most places ban cigars. 

I don't tend to notice it much unless someone is smoking near me. But it does make your clothes stink. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 21, 2021, 10:24:30 PM

Thankfully your breath cancels it out

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 21, 2021, 11:04:38 PM

Speaking of smoke, I saw a bunch of thick black smoke coming up from the downtown area. So I rode down there to see what was burning, and there were five houses on fire. Five. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 21, 2021, 11:29:30 PM

bummer Dude

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 22, 2021, 12:07:42 AM

One went up like a tiki torch, and there were 30mph winds that spread it to the others. It was in the old part of town where the houses are all pretty close together.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 22, 2021, 09:07:25 AM

meth houses burn hot

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 22, 2021, 09:19:49 AM

Fearless..... you need to put TPC sawgrass on your bucket list.  Spectacular.  Tee off for my round 2 in an hour.  

Hit 17 in a nasty right to left hurting wind yesterday and made par.  The 3 others in my foursome all met watery endings.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 22, 2021, 09:43:27 AM

it's obviously on my list

#1 for me is Pebble Beach.  Maybe in a year of two.

par on #17 is something you can brag about forever

good luck today

I'll be playing at my home course, the local muni

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 22, 2021, 12:26:31 PM

I love the smell of cigars, cigarettes, black-and-milds, etc.  I've never been a smoker, though.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 23, 2021, 10:14:16 AM

bev cart girl's 22nd birthday yesterday

yes, I'm sitting in the bev cart

(https://i.imgur.com/fUkBoZK.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 23, 2021, 10:21:22 AM

Missed 17 green on day 2.  Hit a solid pitching wedge ( 121 to front cut flag), but I played out to right to compensate for strong right to left wind.  Wind died after my swing.  Finished pin high right- but wet 🤮

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 23, 2021, 10:23:03 AM

friggin wind

a non-gust from the God's Romes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 23, 2021, 01:25:51 PM

My procedure is Tuesday.  I imagine a lot of folks 50+ years ago had this malady and just turned into an old person over night, almost.  It's terrible, relatively speaking.  If you ever start being out of breath unusually, get it checked, or just check your pulse.  I can tell my pulse is wonky.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 23, 2021, 03:11:39 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 23, 2021, 10:14:16 AM

bev cart girl's 22nd birthday yesterday

yes, I'm sitting in the bev cart

(https://i.imgur.com/fUkBoZK.jpg)

You'd be able to black mail her with that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 23, 2021, 03:42:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 23, 2021, 01:25:51 PM

My procedure is Tuesday.  I imagine a lot of folks 50+ years ago had this malady and just turned into an old person over night, almost.  It's terrible, relatively speaking.  If you ever start being out of breath unusually, get it checked, or just check your pulse.  I can tell my pulse is wonky.

I will be pullin for ya C-dawg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 23, 2021, 05:02:25 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 22, 2021, 12:26:31 PM

I love the smell of cigars, cigarettes, black-and-milds, etc.  I've never been a smoker, though. 

Same here. Not overwhelming smell in a smoker's bar, and definitely not the smell on your clothes the next day. But I have always loved the smell of fresh smoke, particularly of tobacco pipes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 23, 2021, 05:32:25 PM

The wife often sets out a spread on our balcony when the evenings are nice and I'm all for it.

(https://i.imgur.com/KhSvQWg.jpg)

Regusci is about my favorite winery overall now that Dick Steltzner had retired.  I'm eager to get back there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 24, 2021, 11:35:39 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 23, 2021, 01:25:51 PM

My procedure is Tuesday.  I imagine a lot of folks 50+ years ago had this malady and just turned into an old person over night, almost.  It's terrible, relatively speaking.  If you ever start being out of breath unusually, get it checked, or just check your pulse.  I can tell my pulse is wonky.

God Bless ya tomorrow

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 24, 2021, 11:39:09 AM

Good luck CD!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 24, 2021, 12:17:33 PM

It is described as a simple procedure with a very high success rate.  I should be fine I'm pretty sure, I'm not worried anyway, would like to feel "normal" again, that's for sure, and be able to run.  And climb a flight of stairs without stopping.

I got my hair cut today so I'd look good for the nurses.  They had some pretty ones last time I was there, but my primary ER nurse was male, he was super nice and efficient.  I was surprised how nice everyone was, I know they work under a lot of stress and some patients are nasty to them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 24, 2021, 12:18:26 PM

The few times I've been in the ER I notice a lot of folks complain about general pain.  Something hurts.

Gimme oxy?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 24, 2021, 12:20:47 PM

Gimme Tito's

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 24, 2021, 01:13:26 PM

CD, looking forward to hearing how much better you feel in a few days!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 24, 2021, 01:46:26 PM

Yep, me too. I hope all goes well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 24, 2021, 02:48:54 PM

Ditto. Hope all goes well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2021, 02:23:48 PM

In recovery 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2021, 02:24:05 PM

Went fine

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 25, 2021, 02:57:06 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 25, 2021, 02:24:05 PM

Went fine

Good News

CD

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2021, 03:04:11 PM

Glad to know. Thanks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2021, 03:05:02 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/zn5Kx99.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 25, 2021, 03:08:20 PM

No problem just fill up with Fearless and his crew

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 25, 2021, 03:09:12 PM

been doing my part

X3

I may have bruised my liver

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2021, 03:11:20 PM

The problem with the places I go is that everyone already used to drink for 3. Drinking for 9 has gotten to be a bitch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 25, 2021, 03:33:43 PM

Boy Howdy!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2021, 03:39:54 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/iBZJbNy.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2021, 03:41:10 PM

One more...

(https://i.imgur.com/hQCJdtv.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 25, 2021, 04:48:45 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2021, 03:39:54 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/iBZJbNy.png)

after she has 4 drinks, or after I've had 4 drinks?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 25, 2021, 05:22:55 PM

CD had his procedure today, and tomorrow I take the dog in for his "procedure"... I'm sure CD is happy that they didn't get the two mixed up.

Wish Jake luck. He's gonna come out two balls lighter...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 25, 2021, 05:24:35 PM

he's gonna need more than luck after tomorrow

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 25, 2021, 05:33:21 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 25, 2021, 03:09:12 PM

been doing my part

X3

I may have bruised my liver

You have a LIVER?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 25, 2021, 05:41:14 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on May 25, 2021, 05:33:21 PM

You have a LIVER?

That's why FF was getting chummy with the cart girl. 

Spare parts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 25, 2021, 07:11:53 PM

Naw,she supplies the suds he wouldn't jeopardize that.I'm thinking folks subtlety go missing at the Shark Water Festival

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 25, 2021, 08:25:23 PM

many times it's not so subtle 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2021, 09:21:27 PM

I'm fine

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 25, 2021, 09:53:54 PM

great news

thanks for the update

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2021, 02:50:39 AM

After a fairly prolonged preop period, they wheel me into a surgical room that looks like a Star Trek set.  This part of the hospital opened 9 months ago, so it has bells and whistles galore.  One item was a ca. 60 inch high res video monitor.  A portable X-ray was just above my head.  Folks are in there ripping open myriad packages of this and that, including six large sensors they attack to my back and chest.  They were cold.  These are used to detect where the catheter is positioned, I should say catheters, they use three.  I was chatting with my Vietnamese anesthesia guy when the lights go out.  My lights.  They made a small incision in my femoral vein and ran the catheters up into my beating heart and cauterizes dots on the right atrial valve where the electrical signal is getting messed up.  They said I had a classic case of atrial flutter.  This procedure was developed ca. 1997, before that you had to live with AFlutter, which trust me, is very unpleasant, 24/7.

The worst part was having to lie supine for four hours postop.  My back started aching a lot, worse than childbirth, probably.  The doc said my flutter is already gone, and I can tell I have a steady pulse now, not this random pulses that were causing the issue.  I have to take it easy for five days and then he says I'm good to go, which is amazing, the only potential issue is reopening the vein incision point, which would be bad, and I'm taking Xarelto.

So, it's all good news.  Catherine has to take care of me for almost a week, but she'd already been doing that.  I went to bed early so I'm up early.  Vitals are great.  I should be back to normal in less than a week.  I'll be taking drugs for a while, maybe forever, we'll see.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 26, 2021, 07:20:01 AM

I'm very happy that you are doing well and will be up and about in short time. That is great news. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 26, 2021, 08:15:47 AM

Glad to hear you're doing well, CD.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2021, 08:48:58 AM

probably worse than childbirth

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 26, 2021, 10:36:59 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 26, 2021, 08:48:58 AM

probably worse than childbirth

It's hard work typing from the fainting couch :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on May 26, 2021, 10:38:15 AM

Wisconsin isn't trying to hide anything...

(https://i.imgur.com/LHALVsd.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 26, 2021, 11:02:13 AM

“Doc, I’m in one heck of a hurry,” the man said to the dentist. “I have two buddies sitting out in my car waiting for us to go play golf, so forget about the anesthetic, I don’t have time for the gums to get numb. I just want you to pull the tooth, and be done with it! We have a 10 a.m. (https://outlook.live.com/mail/inbox) tee time at the best golf course in town and it’s 9:30 (https://outlook.live.com/mail/inbox) already. I don’t have time to wait for the anesthetic to work!”
The dentist thought to himself, “Well, well, at last a golfer with real balls!“
So the dentist asks him, “Which tooth is it, sir?”
The man turned to his wife and said, “Open your mouth, honey, and show the dentist.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 26, 2021, 11:04:20 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 25, 2021, 09:21:27 PM

I'm fine

Like the old wine or wine skins,what ever,anyway great to hear

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 26, 2021, 11:09:57 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 26, 2021, 02:50:39 AM

The worst part was having to lie supine for four hours postop.  My back started aching a lot, worse than childbirth, probably.  

don't tell that to the wominz,even though they say they'd do it again.I never heard a guy say he'd like to get kicked in the balls again,though

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2021, 11:25:41 AM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on May 26, 2021, 10:38:15 AM

Wisconsin isn't trying to hide anything...

(https://i.imgur.com/LHALVsd.jpg)

Neither is the county I live in...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 26, 2021, 11:37:03 AM

Coincidence?I think not

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 26, 2021, 11:41:16 AM

Looking at that map I have a hard time believing they're not hitting the sauce in W.V./Ky/Tenn,Ya sure the Bourbon/Whiskey/Moonshine Mecca's are not partaking :017:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2021, 12:08:33 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2021, 11:25:41 AM

Neither is the county I live in...

neither is the state of Iowa, seems a close 2nd

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2021, 12:10:30 PM

the Big Island and Kauai?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 26, 2021, 01:54:30 PM

They're factoring in another type of "BUD"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2021, 04:59:32 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on May 26, 2021, 11:41:16 AM

Looking at that map I have a hard time believing they're not hitting the sauce in W.V./Ky/Tenn,Ya sure the Bourbon/Whiskey/Moonshine Mecca's are not partaking :017:

A lot of church going folks there really don't drink at all.  Some do of course, but many don't believe in it.

They have grape juice in church when they do the Sacrament, not wine.  

The wife used to prepare the wine at her church before the service, it was half watered.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2021, 05:11:39 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/zTUH6Oe.jpg)

This is about a mile south of us, new building with facade meant to look likea computer chip, in "Tech Square".  Different anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 26, 2021, 06:01:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 26, 2021, 05:11:39 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/zTUH6Oe.jpg)

This is about a mile south of us, new building with facade meant to look likea computer chip, in "Tech Square".  Different anyway.

No deed restrictions?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on May 26, 2021, 06:52:03 PM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on May 26, 2021, 10:38:15 AM

Wisconsin isn't trying to hide anything...

[img width=234.333 height=337]https://i.imgur.com/LHALVsd.jpg[/img]

Not one outlier County.  I would have bet on Vernon or Monroe County as closest to less the 20% due to certain religious communities being concentrated near Tomah and west.  This is otherwise not at all surprising.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 26, 2021, 07:12:53 PM

Yeah, I had it come up once in some sort of trivia where the question was "What state has the highest per capita alcohol consumption?"

Around a bunch of Californians, without ANY hesitation, I said "Wisconsin."

And I'm not sure it's particularly close. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2021, 07:25:21 PM

Luxembourg wins for countries.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 26, 2021, 07:49:40 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 26, 2021, 07:12:53 PM

Yeah, I had it come up once in some sort of trivia where the question was "What state has the highest per capita alcohol consumption?"

Around a bunch of Californians, without ANY hesitation, I said "Wisconsin."

And I'm not sure it's particularly close.

I would have guessed Alaska

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 27, 2021, 09:19:03 AM

Vintage Map of Atlanta, Georgia from 1871 - KNOWOL (https://www.knowol.com/information/georgia/vintage-map-atlanta-ga-1871/?fbclid=IwAR0l74AdsZB148wTuKn1_qdG8XDrVnzjM2xC1ljYdSfrAG3sDi3E68uGxq0)

Pretty neat, to me.  The population in 1870 was double that of 1860 despite that Sherman visit.   One can see why downtown streets are at a 45° angle to the rest of them around the area.  Where we live is out in the boonies.  A lot of street names have changed.  Peach Tree Street was two words back then.

The city recovered rather quickly from the war.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 27, 2021, 09:29:48 AM

After building boost with pedal overlap, the Honda Accord Sport 2.0T hits 60 mph in 5.5 seconds, making it just one-tenth of a second slower than the Civic Type R we had in our long-term test fleet (https://www.motortrend.com/cars/honda/civic/2018/2018-honda-civic-type-r-long-term-verdict-review/). Its quarter-mile result of 14.1 seconds at 100.4 mph is only two tenths behind the Civic Type R.


Not many "muscle cars" of yore are faster, and this one gets 32 mpg highway (est).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 27, 2021, 09:35:04 AM

Pretty amazing. Also amazing is how much HP and torque these engineers can coax out of these small power plants.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 27, 2021, 09:57:18 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 27, 2021, 09:35:04 AM

Pretty amazing. Also amazing is how much HP and torque these engineers can coax out of these small power plants.

Absolutely.

Hard to get the torque numbers without forced induction though. You can hit high HP with variable valve timing and a high redline, but unless you have the low-end torque you need to be constantly in "drive it like you stole it" mode to get performance. If you have to drive something at 9/10ths to get the performance, it's not "streetable" performance.

That Civic Type R would likely be significantly faster than the Accord 2.0T on a road course, not only due to being smaller and handling better but that the torque penalty of accelerating from zero mph without boost would be gone. It would stay constantly in the powerband. 

For low end torque you typically either need displacement or boost. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 27, 2021, 10:25:47 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 27, 2021, 09:19:03 AM

Vintage Map of Atlanta, Georgia from 1871 - KNOWOL (https://www.knowol.com/information/georgia/vintage-map-atlanta-ga-1871/?fbclid=IwAR0l74AdsZB148wTuKn1_qdG8XDrVnzjM2xC1ljYdSfrAG3sDi3E68uGxq0)

Pretty neat, to me.  The population in 1870 was double that of 1860 despite that Sherman visit.  One can see why downtown streets are at a 45° angle to the rest of them around the area.  Where we live is out in the boonies.  A lot of street names have changed.  Peach Tree Street was two words back then.

The city recovered rather quickly from the war.

How far is that from where they filmed the first season of the Dukes of Hazzard? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 27, 2021, 11:28:55 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 27, 2021, 09:29:48 AM

After building boost with pedal overlap, the Honda Accord Sport 2.0T hits 60 mph in 5.5 seconds, making it just one-tenth of a second slower than the Civic Type R we had in our long-term test fleet (https://www.motortrend.com/cars/honda/civic/2018/2018-honda-civic-type-r-long-term-verdict-review/). Its quarter-mile result of 14.1 seconds at 100.4 mph is only two tenths behind the Civic Type R.


Not many "muscle cars" of yore are faster, and this one gets 32 mpg highway (est).

Slow!  Molasses level. 

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 27, 2021, 09:29:48 AM

After building boost with pedal overlap, the Honda Accord Sport 2.0T hits 60 mph in 5.5 seconds, making it just one-tenth of a second slower than the Civic Type R we had in our long-term test fleet (https://www.motortrend.com/cars/honda/civic/2018/2018-honda-civic-type-r-long-term-verdict-review/). Its quarter-mile result of 14.1 seconds at 100.4 mph is only two tenths behind the Civic Type R.


Not many "muscle cars" of yore are faster, and this one gets 32 mpg highway (est).

Slow!!!   Yuck 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 27, 2021, 11:32:38 AM

the performance isn't the yucky part

Cincy knows better than I.  I'm 5'10"

getting in and out and trying to get 4 golf bags and 4 guys in the little buggers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 27, 2021, 11:45:41 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 27, 2021, 11:32:38 AM

the performance isn't the yucky part

Cincy knows better than I.  I'm 5'10"

getting in and out and trying to get 4 golf bags and 4 guys in the little buggers

Tell me about it. At 6'5" I feel cramped in the driver's seat of my wife's RX350. We initially looked at the NX200 as well because we weren't sure she needed the size of the RX, and I couldn't comfortably sit in the passenger seat. 

But hey, what do I need to worry about 0-60 times for anyway? I'm not jamming the go pedal all the way to the floor ever anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 27, 2021, 11:58:23 AM

I jam the pedal all the way to the floor occasionally, just because....

I enjoy the sound, like the smell of burnt gas and rubber, and I sometimes feel the need for speed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 27, 2021, 12:25:38 PM

Alrighty, there, Top Gun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 27, 2021, 12:28:44 PM

going vertical, Mav

I say this many times just before hitting a 56, 60, or 64 degree wedge

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 27, 2021, 12:42:46 PM

Displacement and/or boost, yes sir.   At a fundamental level, you need to burn more gasoline to generate more power and torque.  The other exception is a hybrid design where an electric motor supplements the torque, something a few hypercars do, and the monster Corvette is supposed to do.

The GTI is the second car I've owned that I did not have the seat all the way back.

When it was broken in a bit, I did hit throttle pretty hard from a stop and the engine bogged down, the computer was trying to eliminate wheel spin.  I reset it to sport mode and it didn't happen.  It has five modes that drive pretty differently, including one that is "custom".

The CTS V included Track One, Track Two, and "Off".  Off was hairy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 27, 2021, 01:55:29 PM

Deluxe Buckhead condo tower announces first whopping sales | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/buckhead-condo-for-sale-graydon-peachtree)

Still available, however, is the Big Kahuna Graydon residence known as “The Estate” plan: The 5,850-square-foot penthouse is spread across the 22nd floor, with another nearly 3,000 square feet of terraces crowning the building. Price: $8.49 million.

In case you wanted to move here ....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 27, 2021, 04:46:20 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 27, 2021, 01:55:29 PM

Deluxe Buckhead condo tower announces first whopping sales | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/buckhead-condo-for-sale-graydon-peachtree)

Still available, however, is the Big Kahuna Graydon residence known as “The Estate” plan: The 5,850-square-foot penthouse is spread across the 22nd floor, with another nearly 3,000 square feet of terraces crowning the building. Price: $8.49 million.

In case you wanted to move here ....

Cincy, not all of us have that Badge or HB money. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 27, 2021, 04:58:26 PM

Shit.. if HB and I had CDawg's money we're throw ours away.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 27, 2021, 05:45:34 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/3E8URga.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 27, 2021, 05:49:56 PM

At least someone posted that who doesn't make it ironic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 28, 2021, 01:56:51 PM

Heismans left to right Joe Bellino 1960, Tony Dorsett 1976., Billy Sims 1978, Archie Griffin 1974, Mike Rozier 1983, George Rodgers 1980, Johnny the Jet, 1972, John David Crow 1957, John Lattner 1953.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-0/p180x540/189847013_4658328160848910_4336353818584732867_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=zeUmna3EcJsAX-n9lue&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=15b8413d39967e10f98d6462f425bd64&oe=60D61701)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on May 28, 2021, 01:58:16 PM

Sims clearly in between breaths from yelling 'BOOMER'

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 28, 2021, 02:00:01 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 28, 2021, 01:56:51 PM

Heismans left to right Joe Bellino 1960, Tony Dorsett 1976., Billy Sims 1978, Archie Griffin 1974, Mike Rozier 1983, George Rodgers 1980, Me, 1972, John David Crow 1957, John Lattner 1953.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-0/p180x540/189847013_4658328160848910_4336353818584732867_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=zeUmna3EcJsAX-n9lue&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=15b8413d39967e10f98d6462f425bd64&oe=60D61701)

That ain't what you look like.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 28, 2021, 02:22:40 PM

sorry, Johnny the Jet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 28, 2021, 03:28:05 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 27, 2021, 04:58:26 PM

Shit.. if HB and I had CDawg's money we're throw ours away.

Shit if I had the money FF spent on Greens Fees or what you've spilled in Scotch I'd throw OAM's away ;D 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 28, 2021, 03:31:09 PM

Dunno why I'm suddenly being accused of being wealthy.

I prefer the term "comfortable".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 28, 2021, 03:51:46 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on May 28, 2021, 03:28:05 PM

Shit if I had the money FF spent on Greens Fees or what you've spilled in Scotch I'd throw OAM's away ;D

I've spilled more than a few drops of Budweiser on the golf course.

rarely spill good scotch

green fees aren't bad.  Annual pass at the Muni is $700.  I get around 80 rounds in a season.  
I am trying to make a reservation at a fancy course out by Valentine, NE.

$570 for two days of unlimited golf with a night's stay and breakfast - a bit pricey for me, but it's within the budget for a one time deal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 28, 2021, 07:21:19 PM

Ah,stay local and make a lot of popcorn and fill the beverage sock

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 29, 2021, 12:30:03 AM

lesson #851 (at least) in crash course of wood craft novice: do a quick finish of some cutoffs to determine the color/contrast.... grrrr.. 

this bad larry is 24"long, 16"wide, and 2.5" thick standing 1" off the counter for total of 3.5" height... why? it's better for taller guys, that's why... it's large enough to be a preparation station and eliminates or at least mitigates leaning over the counter while you work, and makes it easier on your back. 

here is the deal:  I inlayed the predominately teak end grain chopping block with black walnut for the lighthouse, and sapele for the banner... i wasn't prepared for how dark that blond teak would come to be after soaking up some beeswax laden board oil... you could hardly see the banner... so... I painstakingly pulled those inlays out and they're all maple now- and are easily seen. 

duh... i make public mockery of myself here to make me think twice next time. 

(https://www.drewswoodcraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/teak-with-sapele-block-scaled.jpg)

(https://www.drewswoodcraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/teak-without-sapele-scaled.jpg)

(https://scontent-atl3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/194048524_10159950110303755_2999703665338027446_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=gH11bpMWGAIAX8Umve3&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-2.xx&oh=ab26279a1417ae340b006552e160ddd0&oe=60D824A1)

(https://scontent-atl3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/194126340_10159950110253755_5577876063147247796_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=_PBN4hV8Hm4AX_qd4Im&tn=33-pJN6hzRQG1oqS&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-2.xx&oh=d4fc4871db9dd3dd52c801fdeeee51b8&oe=60D915F8)

(https://scontent-atl3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/190753441_10159950110218755_611002941972968452_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=R-BNVmHWJzYAX_nU3NU&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-2.xx&oh=2482715aad528269c39f8b893d658ec5&oe=60D9345E)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 29, 2021, 12:34:23 AM

WOW!

That maple looks fantastic.  Can't even imagine how much work it was to pull those inlays and replace them.  You, sir, are an artist!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 29, 2021, 12:44:18 AM

Quote from: utee94 on May 29, 2021, 12:34:23 AM

WOW!

That maple looks fantastic.  Can't even imagine how much work it was to pull those inlays and replace them.  You, sir, are an artist!

i can drive the machine, sir... cnc and software for dunces heheheheeee.... i know some artists, now... and they challenge the crap out of me.  i'm learning, and hope to arrive soon! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 29, 2021, 06:27:06 AM

Order some yourself as gifts if you don't need, and he also makes presentation quality items as well as chopping blocks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 29, 2021, 06:48:18 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/i6jIy91.png)

I took this last night with the phone through a window.  Early this morning I awoke with bright light outside, two cranes with lights really bright out there.  They are filming a movie "The Valet" about three blocks from us.  The lights were almost blinding at this distance.

There is a nice apartment building over there, I guess they are using that as a prop.

Windsor at Midtown | Apartments in Atlanta, GA | Available Units (https://www.windsoratmidtown.com/availableunits)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 29, 2021, 08:51:32 AM

public mockery is useful for humility

Lord, it's hard to be humble

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 29, 2021, 08:55:49 AM

Humility is one of my best attributes, one of many ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 29, 2021, 09:19:54 AM

Oh Lord, it's hard to be humble, when you're perfect in every way...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 29, 2021, 10:10:21 AM

I was drifting through final AP rankings and reflecting on how often the Dawgs ended not ranked 1960-2000.  They have a good year and then squat, and aside from a nice four year run, it was up and down with a lot of down.  So, now they end up usually in the top ten and fans (like me) keep wanting more.

I guess that is one reason Richt was fired, just not enough for the fans.  AP finishes the last four years were 2, 7, 4, 7, which is their best run ever aside from 1980-4.

2020 Final Football Polls - College Poll Archive - Historical College Football, Basketball, and Softball Polls and Rankings (http://www.collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/seasons.cfm?seasonid=2020#.YLJLBo2SmUk)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 29, 2021, 01:09:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 29, 2021, 10:10:21 AM

I was drifting through final AP rankings and reflecting on how often the Dawgs ended not ranked 1960-2000.  They have a good year and then squat, and aside from a nice four year run, it was up and down with a lot of down.  So, now they end up usually in the top ten and fans (like me) keep wanting more.

I guess that is one reason Richt was fired, just not enough for the fans.  AP finishes the last four years were 2, 7, 4, 7, which is their best run ever aside from 1980-4.

2020 Final Football Polls - College Poll Archive - Historical College Football, Basketball, and Softball Polls and Rankings (http://www.collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/seasons.cfm?seasonid=2020#.YLJLBo2SmUk)

I mean, at some point soon, I’m wondering if 2,7,4,7 is enough.

Richt had that run of 3,7,7,23,2, but the consistency waned and he got stale. And interestingly, you can get stale almost anywhere, if you’re quite good or just middling. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on May 29, 2021, 02:06:57 PM

Quote from: utee94 on May 29, 2021, 12:34:23 AM

WOW!

That maple looks fantastic.  Can't even imagine how much work it was to pull those inlays and replace them.  You, sir, are an artist!

Indeed.  BTW: one of the best trim carpenters I've ever seen, besides the guys who did my house ;)
Is Next Level Carpentry channel on YouTube.   He's based in South Dakota.   His videos are long but just incredible precision and detailed instruction.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2021, 07:29:07 AM

A Spin Across the West with an Airstream in Tow (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a36524475/spin-across-the-west-airstream-tow/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&fbclid=IwAR3La5nPiULqvYEjF7ck8jTQkKM8JvVJnybzUQvLx6tvCI_5iIVsEN-yOq4)

Entertaining story part of which is how not to tow an Airstream.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 30, 2021, 07:47:14 AM

Yikes.  Rookie RVers can get into serious trouble.  He's lucky he didn't kill multiple people, much less do damage to his quarter-million dollars of truck and trailer.

His problem wasn't the GVWR or even the overloaded tongue weight, his problem was not using a proper weight distribution hitch with anti-sway control.  And also, not knowing to tap the brake controller for the trailer to reduce sway, while keeping your foot OFF the truck's brake.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2021, 08:07:43 AM

Yeah, braking with the truck would be bad.  I'm surprised he didn't appear to understand that.

Staying in a Carl Jr. parking lot sounds boring to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 30, 2021, 09:15:13 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on May 29, 2021, 09:19:54 AM

Oh Lord, it's hard to be humble, when you're perfect in every way...

Some folks say I'm egotistical
Hell I don't even know what that means
It must have something to do with the way
That I fill out my skin tight blue jeans

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 30, 2021, 02:58:03 PM

USA Men's 3x3 basketball team failed to even qualify for the Olympics.  Nothing against Robbie Hummel, but how is our roster composition such that he (a decade after he retired from the NBA?) is the best player on the team?  It was him, a podcaster who played a decade ago for Princeton, a G Leaguer, and a guy who apparently played for Minnesota 5 years ago, and I don't even recall.

I get that we aren't going to use NBA stars for that, but I think the women's team (which did qualify) had four low level WNBA players.  You couldn't find 4 NBA bench guys on eliminated teams to go over?  Hell, 4 current good college players have to be a better option.  Just send Baylor's 4 best players.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 30, 2021, 05:21:45 PM

Quote from: ELA on May 30, 2021, 02:58:03 PM

USA Men's 3x3 basketball team failed to even qualify for the Olympics.  Nothing against Robbie Hummel, but how is our roster composition such that he (a decade after he retired from the NBA?) is the best player on the team?  It was him, a podcaster who played a decade ago for Princeton, a G Leaguer, and a guy who apparently played for Minnesota 5 years ago, and I don't even recall.

I get that we aren't going to use NBA stars for that, but I think the women's team (which did qualify) had four low level WNBA players.  You couldn't find 4 NBA bench guys on eliminated teams to go over?  Hell, 4 current good college players have to be a better option.  Just send Baylor's 4 best players.

I must have slept through this

didnt realize there was this new event

obviously no one else did either

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 31, 2021, 11:20:58 AM

I got around our local putt-putt with a 66 the other day, does that count?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2021, 11:42:26 AM

hell ya

I'm goin out in  couple hours

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 31, 2021, 12:22:41 PM

I played the regulation course yesterday. Previous rounds there have been 109, 112, and 121 (a particularly heinous day). 

Made it around in 95. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2021, 12:26:08 PM

nice

been cool and wet here the past two days

78, sunny, and dry this afternoon

better for scoring

we'll see if it helps

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 31, 2021, 03:11:04 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on May 31, 2021, 11:20:58 AM

I got around our local putt-putt with a 66 the other day, does that count?

If that was an Olympic sport, I would absolutely watch it. I remember being in Myrtle Beach once, and the Putt-Putt we tried to go to was closed for some sort of national event

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 31, 2021, 03:15:46 PM

Doing the chuck roast on the Joe Jr. First time smoking on this because I usually smoke larger cuts. Hoping it goes well. I realized that I've got very little of the seal left between base and lid due to all the high heat cooks I've done on this thing...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 31, 2021, 03:16:09 PM

I enjoy mini-golf a lot myself.  My favorite sport is curling because I have no clue what they are doing.  My second favorite is Australian Rules Football which used to dominate ESPN.  They have no PI penalties at all and referees in long white tuxedos, with flags, and four goal posts.

Those guys are not like Lebron Janes (intentional).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2021, 09:36:25 PM

nice day on the course here, perfect weather

great beer cart service

smooth 41 on the front with a birdie

the back wasn't so smooth, maybe too many shots, probably not, just my game

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 01, 2021, 11:07:34 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 31, 2021, 03:15:46 PM

Doing the chuck roast on the Joe Jr. First time smoking on this because I usually smoke larger cuts. Hoping it goes well. I realized that I've got very little of the seal left between base and lid due to all the high heat cooks I've done on this thing...

How'd it turn out?  I've never smoked a chuck roast before, but I might like to try it sometime.

I did a brisket and 3 racks of pork spare ribs on Sunday, it was glorious.  Perfect weather all day, a little overcast which kept the sun off me which was great.  We had some friends over and swam for a couple of hours, and then right when I pulled the ribs off for their 2-hours in the oven, and I pulled the brisket off to hold in the cooler because it finished a little early, right then is when the skies opened up and poured rain for about an hour.  But I have a really large covered back patio with lots of seating, so we just watched the rain and drank bourbon until it was time to eat.  Awesome times. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2021, 11:10:32 AM

Finished product...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2021, 11:14:05 AM

It ended up a little dry and I think the bark-meat ratio was a bit high. The ends were almost burnt as it didn't as evenly as I would have thought. The thickest part ended up nice though. 

Part of it might have been that it was my first low & slow on the Joe Jr, and the fire almost went out on me at one point, and then I had to run it up to 300 to be sure I could finish in time for dinner (which still ended up being late). 

I'd probably try to find a much larger cut or cut it myself off a chuck roll subprimal to get it much more "pork butt" sized if I did it again. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 01, 2021, 04:37:42 PM

This is a fantastic story.

Eight years after leaving prison, Sharmain Harris walks the stage to collect graduate degree | Local News | kenoshanews.com (https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/eight-years-after-leaving-prison-sharmain-harris-walks-the-stage-to-collect-graduate-degree/article_8ce22fda-f837-58fa-8e51-9aa128043229.html#tracking-source=home-trending)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 01, 2021, 05:01:47 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2021, 11:14:05 AM

It ended up a little dry and I think the bark-meat ratio was a bit high. The ends were almost burnt as it didn't as evenly as I would have thought. The thickest part ended up nice though.

Part of it might have been that it was my first low & slow on the Joe Jr, and the fire almost went out on me at one point, and then I had to run it up to 300 to be sure I could finish in time for dinner (which still ended up being late).

I'd probably try to find a much larger cut or cut it myself off a chuck roll subprimal to get it much more "pork butt" sized if I did it again.

Makes sense.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2021, 03:09:46 AM

I just had the oddest 10 seconds of my life.  
I went on twitch and some chick had like 12,000 ppl watching her stream.  So I click it:
(https://i.imgur.com/i4Sgugn.jpg)
What is Twitch?  Well, this is:
It was a big-boob bikini chick in an inflatable hot tub.  She was dancing with a giant inflatable pickle that looked like Rick from 'Rick and Morty.'  She's dancing to "Careless Whisper" by George Michael.
.
I feel odd.  Is this normal now?  This chick is making some thousands of dollars per month doing stuff like this.  Reminds me of a Japanese gameshow clip or something.
.
I need to take a shower I think.  Something.  WTF.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2021, 03:14:33 AM

Now she's wearing a pigeon? mask.  I don't think I'm ever visiting this site again.
(https://i.imgur.com/mzyRSev.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2021, 08:34:55 AM

I guess it's "Do something rather silly while scantily clad and get folks to watch."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2021, 08:37:50 AM

this is nothing new

the scantily clad part, with folks paying to watch

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 02, 2021, 09:57:33 AM

I don't even know how to follow that...

.

Anyone have travel tips for downtown Seattle? Going next month and other than things like the Space Needle and Pike Place Market, I have no idea what's cool to see/do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 02, 2021, 10:02:01 AM

Take the ferry to Poulsbo. 

Take a drive to Snoqualmie Falls and have a bite at the Salish. 

Take the underground tour. 

Eat at Ivar's and Metropolitan Grill. 

Stay at the Edgewater Hotel.

Hopefully it's not all boarded up still, and things are open.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 02, 2021, 10:48:41 AM

Thanks Badge. We won't have a car, so the falls are out, and I've got Hilton credit, so we'll be staying somewhere in the Hilton family of properties... But those others are things I haven't heard of and will go on the list to check out. Much appreciated.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 02, 2021, 10:58:00 AM

Edgewater has (or at least they did have) live music. Can't beat the view of the sunset (if it's out) over the Sound from there. It's the only waterfront hotel in Seattle.

Can also catch some good live music in Belltown. Or at least you could in the past.

I don't know how things are up there now. Was there 3 years ago. 

(https://i.imgur.com/RtngxTf.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2021, 11:47:41 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 02, 2021, 10:48:41 AM

Thanks Badge. We won't have a car, so the falls are out, and I've got Hilton credit, so we'll be staying somewhere in the Hilton family of properties... But those others are things I haven't heard of and will go on the list to check out. Much appreciated.

We stayed at the downtown Hilton one night (i have a zillion points).  It's pretty convenient for walking around.  We were taking an Alaskan cruise the next day.

The Pike Market, to me, isn't particularly singular, it's worth a gander I suppose.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2021, 11:49:46 AM

I ran today, a bit, for the first time, went well.  I also threw on the tennis practice court (rubber ball).  Looking forward to getting back into shape, I had not really run much since the August surgery.  Heart rate is fine, steady, not lumpy, I tried to keep it under 120.  Resting rate is 55 or so.  I cut back on the Metopropol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2021, 12:20:02 PM

my 20 something daughter enjoyed the underground tour.

she also enjoyed some museum or attraction, I'll ask her if the timing is right.

I haven't been there, but would like to visit. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 02, 2021, 12:32:46 PM

My daughter was there recently and ate at a place called The Biscuit Bitch and said the food was really good

https://www.yelp.com/biz/biscuit-bitch-seattle

not sure about the sit down ability with covid

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2021, 12:41:12 PM

One thing we often do is pay for a bus tour of a new city.  It's usually pretty reasonable, and you get a quick overview, and may spot places you want to spend more time later.  we sort of use cruises this way in Europe, you get a few hours in a city somewhere and might decide you want to return (or not) and spend more time later.

I've had folks tell me they've been to Atlanta, and upon questioning, it turns out they changed planes here.  yay.

I often find interest in "out of the way" kitchy places that are unassuming but interesting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 02, 2021, 12:57:49 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 02, 2021, 11:47:41 AM

We stayed at the downtown Hilton one night (i have a zillion points).  It's pretty convenient for walking around.  We were taking an Alaskan cruise the next day.

The Pike Market, to me, isn't particularly singular, it's worth a gander I suppose.

I think the Pike Market is the tourist thing to do... And we're tourists. 

I doubt it will be anything particularly special. But it'll be something to walk through on our way to something else, especially since I think it's about a block or two from the hotels.

Looks like Hilton has a couple of "collection" hotels there, i.e. more boutique hotels. We usually stay at one of those types when we go to Denver which is really cool called the Curtis -- highly recommend for people in Denver. So we'll likely end up at one of those. I suppose I should get booking now though before everyone else decides to travel lol...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 02, 2021, 01:30:12 PM

Pike Place is a lot of fun.

Eat at Emmitt Watson's Oyster Bar when you're there. Get the oysters and a bowl of clam chowder.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2021, 02:10:20 PM

The Curios I've stayed in were quite nice, especially in Paris.  The main Hilton in Paris (Opera) is so so IMHO.  The old Hilton on Courcelles was excellent but they sold it.

The Hiltons in Europe are better than the ones here without exception in my view, in part because they serve alcohol in the exec lounge.  Free.

We stayed at the waldorf in Versailles, I had a deal, twice now, it is really something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2021, 02:12:44 PM

in LARGE part because they serve alcohol in the exec lounge.  Free.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 02, 2021, 02:18:58 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 02, 2021, 01:30:12 PM

Pike Place is a lot of fun.

Eat at Emmitt Watson's Oyster Bar when you're there. Get the oysters and a bowl of clam chowder.

My wife had her first raw oyster ever back on Mother's Day.

She is in no hurry to repeat the experience. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2021, 02:19:30 PM

Well, duh.  Along with heavy horse's douvers.  Our usual was to get breakfast there, have a nice lunch out, and then take dinner at the hotel.

They just broke ground on something here called "Hilton Signia", apparently catering to business travelers or somesuch, I don't know how much more they can fragment the market.

Towering Signia by Hilton scheme breaks ground in Atlanta | TOPHOTELNEWS (https://tophotel.news/towering-signia-by-hilton-scheme-breaks-ground-in-atlanta/)

(https://i.imgur.com/ZwdeYpa.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2021, 02:20:43 PM

The wife loves oysters, I probably told the story about driving through coastal SC and she saw a sign saying "Fresh Fried Oysters", she had a fit, I still kid her about that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 02, 2021, 02:37:43 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 02, 2021, 02:18:58 PM

My wife had her first raw oyster ever back on Mother's Day.

She is in no hurry to repeat the experience.

Doesn't mean you can't have them. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2021, 03:30:52 PM

obviously, it's an acquired taste

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2021, 03:51:18 PM

The wife got me on to Mignonette "sauce" for oysters, I much prefer it to the usual cocktail sauce (unless the oysters are bad, like those I got from the Shell station).

INGREDIENTS

• • 1 tablespoon coarsely ground white or black peppercorns (vary amount according to taste)
  • 1/2 cup white or red wine vinegar
  • 2 tablespoons finely chopped shallots or sweet onions
  • Salt to taste

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2021, 04:38:47 PM

I've tried that since you spoke of it.

Very good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 02, 2021, 04:54:06 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 02, 2021, 09:57:33 AM

Anyone have travel tips for downtown Seattle? Going next month and other than things like the Space Needle and Pike Place Market, I have no idea what's cool to see/do.

Kerry Park is where you go for great views of the city. Sunset Hill Park up in Ballard is another great view of the Olympics if the weather is good.  

Definitely take a ferry. Washington State Ferries doesn't go to Poulsbo. But from the downtown dock, the Bainbridge Island ferry is an hour round trip and Bremerton two hours.

My favorite fish-and-chips place is Spud Fish and Chips, but none of their locations are easy to get to from downtown without a car. 

Ivar's Salmon House's patio is now open.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 02, 2021, 05:02:00 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on June 02, 2021, 04:54:06 PM

Kerry Park is where you go for great views of the city. Sunset Hill Park up in Ballard is another great view of the Olympics if the weather is good. 

Definitely take a ferry. Washington State Ferries doesn't go to Poulsbo. But from the downtown dock, the Bainbridge Island ferry is an hour round trip and Bremerton two hours.

My favorite fish-and-chips place is Spud Fish and Chips, but none of their locations are easy to get to from downtown without a car.

Ivar's Salmon House's patio is now open.

Could have sworn they did, but memory fades and you actually lived out there. Anyway, renting a car for a day would be a good time to go across the Sound on a Ferry.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 02, 2021, 05:07:13 PM

The last thing I want anywhere near Seattle is a car lol... 

I've been up that way for business a few times, and traffic is flat out insane. The growth of Microsoft and Amazon (and then all the tech stuff that sprung up around it), has made it ridiculous. Boeing was always big, but not "explosive growth" big. 

Staying downtown and paying a ridiculous amount to park, and then not wanting to get in the car to go anywhere because of traffic, doesn't sound fun. I'll have to figure out whether I need to take transit, rideshare, or taxi to get from the airport to downtown, but then I'm going to be happy to be car-less.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 02, 2021, 05:23:27 PM

Yeah, I've been there without a car and it's fine. The light rail works fine. About 45 minutes from the airport.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on June 02, 2021, 06:14:38 PM

We took a family trip to Seattle about five years ago.  No car.   We used our feet, cabs, bus,boats, trains, uber and light rail.   Took Amtrak down to PDX where we did rent car for later coastal purposes.   Great trip.

I would no longer visit PDX for other reasons. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 03, 2021, 08:41:25 AM

I didn't think Seattle traffic was unusual, but we took cabs and walked about downtown.

And I live here of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 03, 2021, 09:51:05 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/qXPRRLO.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 03, 2021, 10:37:28 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 02, 2021, 05:07:13 PM

The last thing I want anywhere near Seattle is a car lol...

I've been up that way for business a few times, and traffic is flat out insane. The growth of Microsoft and Amazon (and then all the tech stuff that sprung up around it), has made it ridiculous. Boeing was always big, but not "explosive growth" big.

Staying downtown and paying a ridiculous amount to park, and then not wanting to get in the car to go anywhere because of traffic, doesn't sound fun. I'll have to figure out whether I need to take transit, rideshare, or taxi to get from the airport to downtown, but then I'm going to be happy to be car-less.

Seattle traffic was terrible when I lived there in 2007-08, and that was before South Lake Union turned into a high-rise farm. It's quickly joining Boston, New York, Chicago, and San Francisco on the list of cities in which not to drive unless absolutely necessary. 

Not sure where in downtown you're staying, but Sound Transit light rail is easy to take downtown from the airport. As for the ferries, you can walk onto them, so no car is needed to take them across the Sound. 

COVID and nearby construction forced Ivar's Acres of Clams on the waterfront to close. However, the Salmon House is about a 20 minute walk west from the UW/Husky Stadium light rail stop. Their clam chowder is the best in-stadium food in college football, bar none. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 03, 2021, 11:38:46 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 03, 2021, 08:41:25 AM

I didn't think Seattle traffic was unusual, but we took cabs and walked about downtown.

And I live here of course.

I'm not even sure it's downtown traffic that's the worst. It's the mess of all the sprawl that came over the last three decades. 

Los Angeles traffic sucks, but Los Angeles was BUILT for sprawl. There is such an extensive freeway system out here to handle all this traffic that yeah, the traffic is bad, but at least the infrastructure was designed around it. There are tons of people and everyone drives EVERYWHERE, but the traffic outside of certain times of day and places in LA is not nearly as bad as its reputation IMHO. 

Places like Seattle have experienced rapid growth, and the infrastructure just didn't keep up. Places like Boston were developed before the invention of the automobile, and so everything was over-built without the opportunity to then just shove a freeway system into the middle of it that was functional--hence why they had to completely redo everything at massive cost and disruption in the Big Dig.

Atlanta is similar... Traffic sucks not because there are just too many people (like LA), but because the infrastructure growth didn't keep up with the population growth, especially when the much of the population growth happened out in the suburbs OTP... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2021, 12:26:29 PM

Worst traffic I've been in was in Honolulu.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 03, 2021, 12:45:50 PM

Worst I've see was in Bordeaux.  But that's different.

This is "my exit" coming back from Costco, and this is pretty typical even this time of day, just traversed it.  There is only one N/S freeway and this is it.  Fortunately I can get off just before it usually bogs down.

(https://i.imgur.com/7NRlwS0.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 03, 2021, 12:55:52 PM

Driving through downtown Paris was no fun that's for sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 03, 2021, 12:56:47 PM

Yeah, Atlanta really boned it with 75 and 85 coming together for a few miles right in the heart of downtown... And then intersecting 20 right there too. 

LA has a similar mess where the 5, the 60, the 101, and the 10 all come together in a very small area. It's the one area that trying to traverse Los Angeles north-south on the 5 anytime after 5 AM and before 8 PM is painful. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 03, 2021, 12:59:54 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 03, 2021, 12:56:47 PM

Yeah, Atlanta really boned it with 75 and 85 coming together for a few miles right in the heart of downtown... And then intersecting 20 right there too.

The plan was to build a parallel modern freeway east of that mess, the northern and southern parts did get built with a gap in the middle.  It would have cut through some nice residential areas.  

This is the connector in 1948 being built.  They had no acceleration lanes at all, none.  It was three lanes on each side as they figured that was sufficient.  You can see Tech's stadium lower left and the Biltmore Hotel large building centerish.  It's now offices, somehow survived the raising frenzy here.


(https://i.imgur.com/RLgEx1w.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 03, 2021, 01:48:42 PM

Seattle is also heavily constrained by geography. The area on which to build is only about 20 miles wide at it's furthest, between Puget Sound and mountains, mostly public owned.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2021, 01:51:04 PM

What if the BIG ONE happens in Seattle?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 03, 2021, 01:53:52 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/oDwfjGl.jpg)

Birds beware.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 03, 2021, 02:01:16 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2021, 01:51:04 PM

What if the BIG ONE happens in Seattle?

Maybe not in Seattle, but off the Washington coast? Yup.


https://youtu.be/UJ7Qc3bsxjI

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 03, 2021, 02:03:59 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/wImDV2s.png)

I showed this to the wife as a reason why my arm blew out when I was 16 throwing the first game of the season in March.

That isn't me of course.

(https://i.imgur.com/WL8u3I8.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 03, 2021, 02:10:01 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 03, 2021, 01:53:52 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/oDwfjGl.jpg)

Birds beware.

https://youtu.be/stUolWxG3wo

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 03, 2021, 02:14:13 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on June 03, 2021, 01:48:42 PM

Seattle is also heavily constrained by geography. The area on which to build is only about 20 miles wide at it's furthest, between Puget Sound and mountains, mostly public owned.

Yep, much like San Francisco and the general peninsula as well. San Francisco is obviously bounded on three sides by water. To the south, from San Francisco down to San Jose, there's a narrow strip of land running down the peninsula between the bay and the Santa Cruz mountains, and no room to build. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 03, 2021, 02:45:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 02, 2021, 02:10:20 PM

The Curios I've stayed in were quite nice, especially in Paris.  The main Hilton in Paris (Opera) is so so IMHO.  The old Hilton on Courcelles was excellent but they sold it.

The Hiltons in Europe are better than the ones here without exception in my view, in part because they serve alcohol in the exec lounge.  Free.

We stayed at the waldorf in Versailles, I had a deal, twice now, it is really something.

You Can Now Stay Overnight at the Palace of Versailles.

Opened June 1, the Airelles Château de Versailles, Le Grand Contrôle occupies three historic buildings on the renowned estate best known as the royal residence from which King Louis XVI and Queen Marie Antoinette were removed in 1789, during the French Revolution.

https://www.frommers.com/blogs/passportable/blog_posts/there-s-now-a-princely-hotel-at-the-palace-of-versailles-take-a-peek-inside (https://www.frommers.com/blogs/passportable/blog_posts/there-s-now-a-princely-hotel-at-the-palace-of-versailles-take-a-peek-inside)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 03, 2021, 03:43:00 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/192148159_1135672906943273_6805804383317033255_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=rC4i3JhkxvwAX9yIxoJ&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=99eacbc70cdd2e5a00e250098cb0dc8c&oe=60E059E5)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 03, 2021, 04:00:32 PM

One reason Atlanta spread out is no georgraphic barriers, Dallas is the same.  Folks could get their starter castle on an acre wooded lot pretty cheap out in Dacula.  We drove to DC and saw new subdivisions on the side of the freeway 50 miles from our condo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 03, 2021, 08:13:54 PM

Phoenix is and will grow almost like a staircase.  Due to mountains, but mostly reservations, this swath of land can/will be developed, but not the ones to the east or south of it.  Or west and north of it.  From Anthem in the north, you go south 30 miles, then 20 miles to the east, and then 10 miles south again.  
The west side has some more room to grow, but it's all poor people and the retiree mecca of Sun City.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 04, 2021, 07:31:28 AM

People should not live in a desert.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 04, 2021, 07:37:31 AM

People should not "fill in the blank", but they do.

The wife mused about retiring in LV, to the point I checked our real estate in our price range.  It was attractive in one sense.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 04, 2021, 07:39:25 AM

Should people live in what formerly were swampy areas filled in to make space?  How about on top of rubble pushed off to extend shore lines in San Francisco in an earthquake zone?  Should anyone live in an earthquake zone?  Should folks move to Austin, TX?

How about crammed on a narrow island in NYC?

Or in massive cities in Africa and China and India?

Or below dams?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 04, 2021, 08:04:58 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2021, 01:51:04 PM

What if the BIG ONE happens in Seattle?

How big of one are we talking?

It might be that I'm a good sleeper, and thus slept through many small quakes, but in the grand scheme of regional natural disasters, the quake worries always seemed overblown. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 04, 2021, 08:52:20 AM

My biggest fears are quicksand.  And spiders, coach.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 04, 2021, 09:22:03 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 04, 2021, 07:37:31 AM

People should not "fill in the blank", but they do.

The wife mused about retiring in LV, to the point I checked our real estate in our price range.  It was attractive in one sense.

I've mused about that as well
but, I'll be retiring in Texas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 04, 2021, 09:40:49 AM

I looked some into every state with no income  tax., more FL and TN because I know them better.  It's one factor.  I ran numbers on moving to some cheap condo in FL and converting all my retirement in one year to after tax monies.

The Fed tax was unpleasant.  But once I had all that done, I could live in California just fine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 04, 2021, 10:11:59 AM

seems like Cali has other ways of taxing folks

like sales tax and gasoline tax and everything else they can slap a tax on, which is most things

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 04, 2021, 01:06:27 PM

I could still manage CA aside from income tax, and the more rural areas even two hours east of SF are pretty nice I think, and lower COL.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 04, 2021, 01:58:30 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 04, 2021, 07:31:28 AM

People should not live in a desert.

Don't let a little thing like drinking water prevent you from creating a massive city!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 04, 2021, 02:49:36 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 04, 2021, 08:04:58 AM

How big of one are we talking?

It might be that I'm a good sleeper, and thus slept through many small quakes, but in the grand scheme of regional natural disasters, the quake worries always seemed overblown.

Problem is that the earthquake will come from just offshore. 

And it could be MASSIVE... Which even worse than the quake, generates a giant tsunami. 

Happened about 321 years ago, estimated to be between 8.7 and 9.2 on the Richter. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1700_Cascadia_earthquake

Quite possibly much more damaging and causing much more loss of life than if the "big one" hits down here on the San Andreas...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 04, 2021, 02:50:41 PM

Yep.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 04, 2021, 04:10:44 PM

They could build a large dam to head off the tsunami.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 04, 2021, 05:00:30 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 04, 2021, 02:49:36 PM

Problem is that the earthquake will come from just offshore.

And it could be MASSIVE... Which even worse than the quake, generates a giant tsunami.

Happened about 321 years ago, estimated to be between 8.7 and 9.2 on the Richter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1700_Cascadia_earthquake

Quite possibly much more damaging and causing much more loss of life than if the "big one" hits down here on the San Andreas...

I could see that. 

I've been through near about a decade of hurricane seasons. I'll take quakes over that all the time. I suppose there's the risk a multi-century tsunami is gonna kill my whole family, but stuff like Hugo and Andrew every so often, not a fan. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 05, 2021, 08:41:34 AM

Holy crap.

Delta flight attendant tackles would-be hijacker, zip-ties his wrists: video | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/delta-flight-attendant-tackles-hijacker-zip-ties-wrists-video)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 05, 2021, 09:18:24 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 05, 2021, 08:41:34 AM

Holy crap.

Delta flight attendant tackles would-be hijacker, zip-ties his wrists: video | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/delta-flight-attendant-tackles-hijacker-zip-ties-wrists-video)

I saw that


Message to would be hijackers - pick a country other then the US cause folks today in this country go absolutely ape shit
over that kind a thing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2021, 01:58:23 PM

Had been meaning to try this place, it was pretty decent, for ATL.  The servers appeared to be Hispanic along with several patrons.

La Hacienda - About (lahamidtown.com) (https://lahamidtown.com/Atlanta-Midtown-La-Hacienda-about)

I got full anyway.  

Somewhere along the way, lunch started being nearly $50 after tax and tip even with no alcohol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 06, 2021, 02:56:45 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv4_mnwo1Pw



i (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv4_mnwo1Pw)dk where else to put this......doing research for '88 Clemson and they're "year in review" video begins with.......the song from "Dirty Dancing" lmao

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 06, 2021, 10:26:13 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 05, 2021, 01:58:23 PM

Had been meaning to try this place, it was pretty decent, for ATL.  The servers appeared to be Hispanic along with several patrons.

La Hacienda - About (lahamidtown.com) (https://lahamidtown.com/Atlanta-Midtown-La-Hacienda-about)

I got full anyway. 

Somewhere along the way, lunch started being nearly $50 after tax and tip even with no alcohol.

I very rarely eat out for breakfast or lunch for this reason

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 06, 2021, 11:41:21 AM

Dining out more often was our "sop" for being unable to travel.  I'm just surprised that a normal lunch out can hit $40 quickly.  I think mine was $14 and the wife's was as well.  She had left overs enough for another meal at least.  We had iced tea, and they gouge on drinks of course.  So, we're at $33 already and tax here is nearly 10%, plus tip.

I get 10% off in midtown, but this isn't there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 07, 2021, 09:48:09 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/L0geNFf.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 08, 2021, 11:38:28 AM

Early Coke had nowhere near that level in it.  By 1894 it had "trace amounts".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 08, 2021, 11:58:24 AM

3.5 grams would have been plenty

not that I'd know anything about that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 08, 2021, 04:28:19 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/LisZTDK.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 08, 2021, 09:18:50 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/ryCSVK3.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2021, 03:21:18 AM

Here's a great video. 
It's from 1988 after a great Auburn team beat up on UNC, coached by Mack Brown.  This is Brown's coach's show, usually shown on Sundays.  His team wasn't good and they got beaten up, but he's so positive.  it's freakin' rapid-fire, but everything he has to say is how good Auburn was (genuinely) and how hard his players played.  
It's just great positivity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0-kd_LH49Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0-kd_LH49Y)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2021, 03:25:58 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 05, 2021, 09:18:24 AM

I saw that


Message to would be hijackers - pick a country other then the US cause folks today in this country go absolutely ape shit
over that kind a thing

Well they're just not going to fool us twice, doing the same shit.  If there's a bad guy w/o a gun and me (or you or hopefully most anyone over 160 lbs) and a narrow aisle, it ain't happening.  That guy is toast.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 09, 2021, 04:55:49 PM

FORE!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 09, 2021, 07:55:29 PM

So our President is now saying that global warming is this nation's greatest security threat

wow

never mind that our southern boarder is being trashed

never mind that hackers shut our oil pipelines down or meat processing

dont mention UFO's doing what ever it is they do and where ever they want to do it in

ignore Iran funding terror across the Middle East

ignore China and all the crap they are doing including the virus

our potted plant needs to reevaluate what a security threat really is

and its not keeping cows from farting

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2021, 10:47:57 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 09, 2021, 07:55:29 PM

So our President is now saying that global warming is this nation's greatest security threat

wow

never mind that our southern boarder is being trashed  "being trashed" a fill-in for "isn't actually a sieve of danger"

never mind that hackers shut our oil pipelines down or meat processing  Russian hackers, who were the past president's buddies

dont mention UFO's doing what ever it is they do and where ever they want to do it in  haven't harmed a single person

ignore Iran funding terror across the Middle East  what has Iran actually done?

ignore China and all the crap they are doing including the virus  "crap they are doing" a fill-in for "trying to thrive like every country does"

our potted plant needs to reevaluate what a security threat really is

and its not keeping cows from farting

These are fun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2021, 10:49:06 PM

When Bangladesh is under 2' of ocean and all your neighbors are from there, you're going to have to get over their skin tone, bud.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 09, 2021, 11:09:01 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2021, 10:49:06 PM

When Bangladesh is under 2' of ocean and all your neighbors are from there, you're going to have to get over their skin tone, bud.

so you agree with the potted plant

global warming is the biggest security threat this country has?

you actually agree with that?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 09, 2021, 11:18:59 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2021, 10:49:06 PM

When Bangladesh is under 2' of ocean and all your neighbors are from there, you're going to have to get over their skin tone, bud.

I have no problem with any persons skin tone

no reason to play the race card 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on June 10, 2021, 01:15:47 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 08, 2021, 04:28:19 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/LisZTDK.png)

speaking of........


https://www.drewswoodcraft.com/shop/keychain-4-custom-teak-endgrain-chopping-block/

raffling... sorta... selling keychains with your name on it for $15, but entering the chance to win a teak end grain chopping block (example is the one from a few pages back)...

that site rests on the same server as this site, and @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) 's site too while yern' BS'n... and... bill will be due very soon.... in need of sales to cover it.  $15 ain't much, y'all, and it 'may' get you something!  i'd really like for someone here to take it home. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on June 10, 2021, 01:17:24 AM

oh.... ^please share the hell out of that with friends!!!^

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 10, 2021, 01:34:47 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 09, 2021, 11:09:01 PM

so you agree with the potted plant

global warming is the biggest security threat this country has?

you actually agree with that?

None of us is informed enough to correct him.  Ask the head of the NSA.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 10, 2021, 09:29:55 AM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on June 10, 2021, 01:15:47 AM

speaking of........


https://www.drewswoodcraft.com/shop/keychain-4-custom-teak-endgrain-chopping-block/

raffling... sorta... selling keychains with your name on it for $15, but entering the chance to win a teak end grain chopping block (example is the one from a few pages back)...

that site rests on the same server as this site, and @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) 's site too while yern' BS'n... and... bill will be due very soon.... in need of sales to cover it.  $15 ain't much, y'all, and it 'may' get you something!  i'd really like for someone here to take it home. 

Just ordered two. One for me, one for wife.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 10, 2021, 09:32:21 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2021, 10:47:57 PM

Russian hackers, who were the past president's buddies These are fun.

Bob Mueller agrees.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 10, 2021, 09:47:39 AM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on June 10, 2021, 01:15:47 AM

speaking of........


https://www.drewswoodcraft.com/shop/keychain-4-custom-teak-endgrain-chopping-block/

raffling... sorta... selling keychains with your name on it for $15, but entering the chance to win a teak end grain chopping block (example is the one from a few pages back)...

that site rests on the same server as this site, and @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) 's site too while yern' BS'n... and... bill will be due very soon.... in need of sales to cover it.  $15 ain't much, y'all, and it 'may' get you something!  i'd really like for someone here to take it home. 

I'm in. Put "Fearless" on my keychain, please

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 10, 2021, 10:12:34 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 09, 2021, 10:49:06 PM

When Bangladesh is under 2' of ocean and all your neighbors are from there, you're going to have to get over their skin tone, bud.

When do you think this will actually happen, aside from the results of the usual typhoons?

The average height of the country is 30 feet above current sea level, for information.

And "racially", they are about as "Caucasian" as we are.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 10, 2021, 11:29:15 AM

The 2022 Airstream Interstate 24X Is a Boondocking Adventure Van (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-airstream-interstate-24x-first-look-review/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR3CFdFxNH6ej2CU4bPq9tmw1JDfLLIvMMN4ZA6lRyFvMejVJOBgMzicUEk)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 10, 2021, 11:43:19 AM

This is the kind of message we should see more often from the media


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqCyr1JP2go

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 10, 2021, 12:03:28 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 10, 2021, 11:29:15 AM

The 2022 Airstream Interstate 24X Is a Boondocking Adventure Van (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-airstream-interstate-24x-first-look-review/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR3CFdFxNH6ej2CU4bPq9tmw1JDfLLIvMMN4ZA6lRyFvMejVJOBgMzicUEk)

I love Airstreams, as you all know.  But there are a lot of B-vans on the market, based on the Sprinter chassis, that are both more capable, and more affordable, than Airstreams B-vans.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 10, 2021, 04:38:39 PM

Iowa fans will be able to purchase alcohol at Hawkeye games beginning this fall, the university announced on Thursday morning.

The university is beginning a pilot program to test the impact of alcohol in the stadium. Iowa will also sell alcohol at Carver-Hawkeye Arena, Duane Banks Field and Bob Pearl Field for the 2021-22 school year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 10, 2021, 04:46:15 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 10, 2021, 04:38:39 PM

Iowa fans will be able to purchase alcohol at Hawkeye games beginning this fall, the university announced on Thursday morning.

The university is beginning a pilot program to test the impact of alcohol in the stadium. Iowa will also sell alcohol at Carver-Hawkeye Arena, Duane Banks Field and Bob Pearl Field for the 2021-22 school year.

as usual the old folks are slow to the party

when I was in school you could get drunk off just the fumes in the student section

the only difference is now the school will be making money off it

might just as well sell weed and make the transition complete

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 10, 2021, 04:55:16 PM

Company head: Talks underway for Atlanta supertall building in several locations | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/midtown-downtown-skyscraper-development-ritaworld)

Probably vaporware, but I like the style.  Hopefully not near me though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 10, 2021, 09:21:04 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 10, 2021, 04:46:15 PM

as usual the old folks are slow to the party

when I was in school you could get drunk off just the fumes in the student section

the only difference is now the school will be making money off it

might just as well sell weed and make the transition complete

agreed on all counts

I'm fine with Nebraska not selling alcohol in the stadium.  They have enough money to win and anyone that wants to drink in the stadium can find a way

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 11, 2021, 11:26:00 AM

I would be fine with not selling alcohol in the stadium period. 

I don't understand why people get so bent out of shape about not being able to buy beer in stadium. It may be a Minnesota/NFL thing. Isn't the whole point to tailgate and get loaded beforehand?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 11, 2021, 11:32:38 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on June 11, 2021, 11:26:00 AM

I would be fine with not selling alcohol in the stadium period.

I don't understand why people get so bent out of shape about not being able to buy beer in stadium. It may be a Minnesota/NFL thing. Isn't the whole point to tailgate and get loaded beforehand?

It wasn't for me toward the end. I didn't want a hangover at half time, so I waited until we got back to the postgame tailgate.

I'm really good at catching up too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 11, 2021, 11:39:41 AM

I can attest to his catching up skillz

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 11, 2021, 11:51:37 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on June 11, 2021, 11:26:00 AM

I would be fine with not selling alcohol in the stadium period.

I don't understand why people get so bent out of shape about not being able to buy beer in stadium. It may be a Minnesota/NFL thing. Isn't the whole point to tailgate and get loaded beforehand?

You know, when I was younger (and cheaper) the "getting loaded beforehand" strategy was a big thing, rather than paying $10 (or more) for a beer inside a stadium. Purdue pretty much always had noon kickoffs, so we were set up with kegs on Slayter Hill before 9 AM and you could get pretty hammered by kickoff, and have enough booze in your system to ride you all the way through the game from there. 

But my life has changed. It's no longer about getting loaded at all, maybe just getting a nice warm buzz. I like to have a beer while I'm watching a game, and while I still think the prices are outrageous, I am now in a place in my life where I can afford to pay them. 

I believe this is what kids these days refer to as "adulting"... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2021, 11:55:03 AM

I don't think I've ever bought a beer at any athletic event.

There is a nice little Meze restaurant near us I like, but the beer is $7 per class for Peroni.  Too much for me.  The wife likes lighter beers, like 420.

Of course markups on wine are obscene usually as well.  A good restaurant tries to break even on food and make profit on alcohol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 11, 2021, 12:06:28 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 11, 2021, 11:51:37 AM

You know, when I was younger (and cheaper) the "getting loaded beforehand" strategy was a big thing, rather than paying $10 (or more) for a beer inside a stadium. Purdue pretty much always had noon kickoffs, so we were set up with kegs on Slayter Hill before 9 AM and you could get pretty hammered by kickoff, and have enough booze in your system to ride you all the way through the game from there.

But my life has changed. It's no longer about getting loaded at all, maybe just getting a nice warm buzz. I like to have a beer while I'm watching a game, and while I still think the prices are outrageous, I am now in a place in my life where I can afford to pay them.

I believe this is what kids these days refer to as "adulting"...

you know...... you don't have to act like an adult

just saying

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 11, 2021, 12:57:51 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 11, 2021, 11:51:37 AM

You know, when I was younger (and cheaper) the "getting loaded beforehand" strategy was a big thing, rather than paying $10 (or more) for a beer inside a stadium. Purdue pretty much always had noon kickoffs, so we were set up with kegs on Slayter Hill before 9 AM and you could get pretty hammered by kickoff, and have enough booze in your system to ride you all the way through the game from there.

But my life has changed. It's no longer about getting loaded at all, maybe just getting a nice warm buzz. I like to have a beer while I'm watching a game, and while I still think the prices are outrageous, I am now in a place in my life where I can afford to pay them.

I believe this is what kids these days refer to as "adulting"...

Same here.  Not nearly as much pre-gaming as I get older, but I also like to enjoy a beer or two during the game, and I have no problem with the prices, because I can afford it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 11, 2021, 01:28:24 PM

Gov. Greg Abbott announced Thursday that Texas will build a border wall along the state’s boundary with Mexico but gave no details on where or when.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 11, 2021, 01:51:56 PM

I was scrolling to find the article that showed the PAC would not have had a team in the 12-team playoff last season and this popped up.............

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/uV0AAOSwM0hdl-sh/s-l400.jpg)
thought I should share

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2021, 02:07:34 PM

2021 BMW 430i Coupe First Drive: The Nose Isn’t the Problem (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/4-series/2021/2021-bmw-430i-coupe-first-drive-review/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR1gXyweX8e3u6pfz5bVJ8Y5Kj7_g4uh3o1s8F7Fk0PEdXnrVwvUw6Cebyo)

Pretty much a slam.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 11, 2021, 05:04:11 PM

What the hell were they thinking with that grill? Same question to Lexus...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 11, 2021, 05:05:12 PM

I hope the people rise up again against this nonsense. I have no problem with private sector unions, but to make it forced is just not right.


Editorial: You can’t vote on pensions. But expanding union power, coming right up. - Chicago Tribune (https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/editorials/ct-editorial-illinois-right-to-work-law-ban-constitutional-amendment-20210611-v4qfyoyfl5eorjqtd6l4in32je-story.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2021, 05:23:04 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 11, 2021, 05:04:11 PM

What the hell were they thinking with that grill? Same question to Lexus...

I agree on both, I presume they wanted to stand out, or something.  I think BMW has lost its way, the two series might still be a Bimmer.  But, they were building credible sports sedans and may have noticed 99% of US drivers drive them like they would an Accord (which is a nice car, I'm not knocking it, but if you have a car that handles well you probably should push it a bit at times).  And if you only need an Accord, buy an Accord.  I can't think of a reason to buy a RWD car if you aren't going to push it some.

FWD is just fine for most folks for an automobile.  And they have tuned out a lot of the oversteer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 11, 2021, 06:00:14 PM

Filled up the car at $4.49/gallon for regular today... Oof.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2021, 06:35:31 PM

I filled up a week ago at Costco, regular was $2.55, premium $2.85.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 11, 2021, 06:59:42 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 11, 2021, 06:35:31 PM

I filled up a week ago at Costco, regular was $2.55, premium $2.85.

you did a lot better then most


https://www.gasbuddy.com/charts

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 11, 2021, 09:05:20 PM

regular is $2.85 here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on June 11, 2021, 10:03:34 PM

Presented without comment

https://twitter.com/afc2nfc/status/1403455954277081091?s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 11, 2021, 10:20:29 PM

its stuff like that that make a Head Coach  cringe 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 11, 2021, 10:27:18 PM

made me cringe

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 12, 2021, 02:29:36 AM

Is that worse than Ga'Quincy?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2021, 05:02:26 AM

Costco of course is consistently 30 cents cheaper than regular stations, more than that for premium.  Among regular stations around here, anything near the freeway adds another 30 cents or so to their prices.  Normal station prices here are just under $3 for regular.  Costco was cheaper than I expected this time.  They don't bump their prices until the next load comes in.  But there is a line, usually, a few minutes of waiting.

Their wine prices here are 2/3rds what they were in Cincy, even at Costco up there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2021, 08:15:48 AM

the benies of living in big cities

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2021, 08:19:03 AM

We drive so little is not much of a benefit.  If we drive somewhere I do check where a Costco might be en route, like there is one south of Chattanooga.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2021, 08:19:47 AM

playing in the annual golf scramble fundraiser for the small town volunteer fire department today

yup, it's a drinking event, I'll fit right in

FORE!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 12, 2021, 08:43:54 AM

Filled up for $2.38 at Costco yesterday.  The HEB was $2.65 I think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 12, 2021, 08:58:16 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 11, 2021, 08:13:45 PM

You've got to be kidding me.

He's not kidding.


New Jersey school board removes holiday names off school calendar to prevent 'hurt feelings' | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-jersey-school-board-removes-holiday-names-prevent-hurt-feelings)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 12, 2021, 09:14:33 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 12, 2021, 08:19:47 AM

playing in the annual golf scramble fundraiser for the small town volunteer fire department today

yup, it's a drinking event, I'll fit right in

FORE!!!

(https://i.imgur.com/oyjRAYA.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 12, 2021, 12:53:10 PM

Oh man, watching the Euro championship and a guy collapsed, and they are treating him like he doesn't have a pulse

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 12, 2021, 01:12:29 PM

Finally making some golf equipment changes...

A buddy lent me his old Ping G25 driver to test out, since I'm still hitting a 20 year old small-headed driver with a steel shaft. I'm hitting this SO much better and he offered it to me for $100, so I snapped that right up.

I have an iron fitting scheduled for Thursday to refresh that part of the bag. Thinking I'm going to switch to single-length irons from Wishon. 

Next stop: scratch! :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 12, 2021, 01:33:21 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 12, 2021, 01:12:29 PM

Finally making some golf equipment changes...

A buddy lent me his old Ping G25 driver to test out, since I'm still hitting a 20 year old small-headed driver with a steel shaft. I'm hitting this SO much better and he offered it to me for $100, so I snapped that right up.

I have an iron fitting scheduled for Thursday to refresh that part of the bag. Thinking I'm going to switch to single-length irons from Wishon.

Next stop: scratch! :57:

I use all Ping woods 

best Ive ever owned

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 12, 2021, 02:05:16 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 12, 2021, 08:58:16 AM

He's not kidding.


New Jersey school board removes holiday names off school calendar to prevent 'hurt feelings' | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-jersey-school-board-removes-holiday-names-prevent-hurt-feelings)

That's right up there with FL banning the teaching of something that isn't taught.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 12, 2021, 02:14:40 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 12, 2021, 02:05:16 PM

That's right up there with FL banning the teaching of something that isn't taught. 

So you are saying critical race theory is not being taught anywhere?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 13, 2021, 05:40:55 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 12, 2021, 02:14:40 PM

So you are saying critical race theory is not being taught anywhere?

No.  He is saying his usual radical bull.  Fake.  

but thankfully it is being vehemently opposed now in a rapidly growing number of places. Common sense is making a comeback over racism and stupidity.  

Remember Longhorn- this is the same “person” who clearly got woke when a thread started about the National Anthem.  🤮🤮

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2021, 07:35:24 AM

From what I can discern, CRT isn't a single discrete thing, it's a range of teaching with widely varying syllabi.

It's a bit like banning "assault rifles", you have to define the term, because it isn't a clearly define thing otherwise.  And in defining it, you make it still vague, someone makes the same rifle without a "pistol grip" and they are off.

We had to endure day long "diversity training" things at work that look like CRT, but we were adults, and paid little or not attention.  Even had we bought in, it had naught to do with the job anyway.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 13, 2021, 09:09:14 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 12, 2021, 01:12:29 PM

Finally making some golf equipment changes...

A buddy lent me his old Ping G25 driver to test out, since I'm still hitting a 20 year old small-headed driver with a steel shaft. I'm hitting this SO much better and he offered it to me for $100, so I snapped that right up.

I have an iron fitting scheduled for Thursday to refresh that part of the bag. Thinking I'm going to switch to single-length irons from Wishon.

Next stop: scratch! :57:

I like the PING drivers, haven't had one but tested them.  I'm a Callaway guy.  I usually sell my old drivers for $100 to friends.  I buy used drivers for $200.
the driver will help a ton, but good luck getting to scratch
new fitted irons will also really help

I'm not ready to try single length.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 13, 2021, 09:11:14 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 12, 2021, 09:14:33 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/oyjRAYA.jpg)

nice hat, I don't have one like that but I need one

btw, hit the ball well yesterday, won the golf part of the competition (shot 29-31) and had to be in the running for the drinking category

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2021, 09:23:03 AM

I got new golf clubs maybe ten years ago, and the 4 and 5 woods I hit a lot better than the old 3 iron.  I'm not nearly good enough for anything to make a difference, and have not played in eons.  Oddly enough, I won a closest to the pin award of some sort at baseball camp on the electronic golf game.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 13, 2021, 09:30:18 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 13, 2021, 05:40:55 AM

No.  He is saying his usual radical bull.  Fake. 

but thankfully it is being vehemently opposed now in a rapidly growing number of places. Common sense is making a comeback over racism and stupidity. 

Remember Longhorn- this is the same “person” who clearly got woke when a thread started about the National Anthem.  🤮🤮

yep

I chose to ignore that in hopes he would get tired and just go back to pestering someone else

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 13, 2021, 09:38:49 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 13, 2021, 09:23:03 AM

I got new golf clubs maybe ten years ago, and the 4 and 5 woods I hit a lot better than the old 3 iron.  I'm not nearly good enough for anything to make a difference, and have not played in eons.  Oddly enough, I won a closest to the pin award of some sort at baseball camp on the electronic golf game.

one of my favorite sayings on the course, "Better to be lucky than good"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2021, 09:52:56 AM

I can hit high irons pretty well, usually, it is anything lower than a 7 that I miss hit.  often.

I tense up on the tee usually and have a massive slice.  Unless the hole is dogleg left.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 13, 2021, 09:53:29 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 13, 2021, 09:09:14 AM

I like the PING drivers, haven't had one but tested them.  I'm a Callaway guy.  I usually sell my old drivers for $100 to friends.  I buy used drivers for $200.
the driver will help a ton, but good luck getting to scratch
new fitted irons will also really help

I'm not ready to try single length.

For me the driver is an interim club, but for $100 I couldn't pass it up. I need to replace basically everything in my bag except putter, and I'm impatient. The idea of shelling out for a new set of irons and then turning around for a new driver a month later seemed painful. This'll be good enough to get me through 4-6 months, then I'll get a driver fitting and a new driver, and can probably sell this for >$100. 

The single length irons are partly a product of my height. I'm currently playing +1.5", so my 8-iron is 5-iron length, and my 3-4-5 irons are basically as long as a lot of people's hybrids. Those longer irons are just not easy to hit. So an entire set at my 8-iron length (38") should simplify everything and allow me to hit the "long" irons much more consistently than I do today. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 13, 2021, 10:16:45 AM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-0/p526x296/194227924_10158129508437108_283600214932208970_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=Vph5RuUnqM8AX8pcak4&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=1f596506d47560944af2622091c90227&oe=60CAF9B7)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2021, 10:27:34 AM

Fantasy Camp | Atlanta Braves (mlb.com) (https://www.mlb.com/braves/fans/experiences-and-merchandise/fantasy-camp)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2021, 10:40:53 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/UIMl3jQ.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 13, 2021, 10:46:28 AM

Giza

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on June 13, 2021, 01:02:18 PM

Heading out today to get myself fitted. Been  playing with a set of clubs  my nephew made for me from parts that he had lying around.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 13, 2021, 01:11:02 PM

Ive played golf for over 50 years and never been fitted or taken a lesson

Imagine where Id be if I had

Oh well

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 13, 2021, 03:50:44 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 12, 2021, 02:14:40 PM

So you are saying critical race theory is not being taught anywhere?

I'm saying that you won't find it in the standards being taught.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 13, 2021, 03:51:43 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 13, 2021, 05:40:55 AM

No.  He is saying his usual radical bull.  Fake. 

but thankfully it is being vehemently opposed now in a rapidly growing number of places. Common sense is making a comeback over racism and stupidity. 

Remember Longhorn- this is the same “person” who clearly got woke when a thread started about the National Anthem.  🤮🤮

Was I woke about the national anthem or the childish bullshit preamble to it?  All of you are deplorable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 13, 2021, 04:47:10 PM

The anti-CRT stuff is pretty shamelessly just white people making sure no one says anything mean about white people in history class. That's all it is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2021, 05:01:04 PM

Just call it history if that is what it is, and teach history.  It doesn't need to be called "critical" or have the term race in it, nor should it contain the term "theory".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 13, 2021, 05:07:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 13, 2021, 05:01:04 PM

Just call it history if that is what it is, and teach history.  It doesn't need to be called "critical" or have the term race in it, nor should it contain the term "theory".

History without any theories, critiques, or race. Those would be some slim history books.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2021, 05:08:40 PM

I'm talking about the term, not what history is.  Just teach history, if that is what this is.  No need for the polarizing terminology.

Teach history, done, no controversy at all ove some specific terminology.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on June 13, 2021, 05:13:51 PM

damn right I'm deplorable... and that, y'all, is just a word... a title offered by those who claim 'woke' after being totally mesmerized by the thoughts and ideals of others- not their own. 

this is one jacked up world. it doesn't seem to be getting better.  we discover more shit to separate us every second- when there is literally 1000's of things that bind us. 

whatever... I'll be in the woodshop...

I just made these for a retiring NYPD Detective.... kinda a cool story:

My old and favorite Platoon Sgt ever has started making 'wavy flags'- the kind people use a grinder with bastard rasp attachment and cut by hand... they're 2x4's joined... they look freakin great... I sent him an EGA to inset, and DAMN his business has exploded!!!!

that is the point of shop210craftworks... to bring veteran crafters together and have a place to consolidate marketing efforts.

https://www.facebook.com/drewswoodcraft/posts/853027631986833?__cft__[0]=AZUDNZpU-5K0eabFk0urWaJL7dYsESd-IN9kMwPPW1aaWtq_O8xHd8zfYMUdi4J9ugGFlbdRMXRFNW4pZvqc4GVJj18jRCjpMtbmjszTOAiBkrUGN7yScnByYYwNq6rF9Y2TMvSVPbMLGx7-d5wrWiO5GlukjH2t76x1uzBNsncNag&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R

https://www.facebook.com/carl.fowler.94/videos/4392690007442662/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 13, 2021, 05:14:43 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 13, 2021, 09:38:49 AM

one of my favorite sayings on the course, "Better to be lucky than good"

Duffers can't claim that one,loafers,dopers,drunks and gamblers have been using that mantra many a moon

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2021, 05:15:36 PM

We used to have "diversity training" once or twice a year at work.  A lot of it sounded pretty similar to this stuff, or what I understand CRT to comprise in some cases.  Now, we were adults and it was a go through the motions kind of deal.  We did have one session with the technicians attending where it got out of hand because the black technicians told the black "moderator" he was full of S.  It got so bad the moderator called our director, who called me to come with him to find out what was happening.

Basically, the moderator had presented to everyone the story that all the whites there were racist and they took it seriously and got unhappy, it really was no big deal, just get through it and go back to work, but some of the technicians took umbrage at the insinuations.  

My technicians filled me in later on what happened, they thought it rather amusing.  The staff had the same deal later but with a different moderator who was, well, coached beforehand.  We treated it as a ticket to punch, be quiet, nod, get it over, and go home early that day.

It it's teaching history warts and all, fine with me, but if the idea is to make white folks feel bad about it by slanting the story so much that it is presented as THEIR fault, I can't sign on.  I imagine there are many variations called "CRT" that include a lot of different kinds of things.

Just teach history.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 13, 2021, 05:19:11 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 13, 2021, 05:08:40 PM

I'm talking about the term, not what history is.  Just teach history, if that is what this is.  No need for the polarizing terminology.

Teach history, done, no controversy at all ove some specific terminology.

Setting aside the particulars of this specific political fight/general boogieman-ing, history is always going to be complex in certain ways, and for better or worse, that will polarize folks. 

Alas, everything has sides. One person's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. One's patriot, another's traitor. Things ugly and brutish are dusted over, as has always happened and probably can't totally be avoided. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 13, 2021, 05:21:05 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on June 13, 2021, 05:13:51 PM

damn right I'm deplorable... and that, y'all, is just a word

this is one jacked up world. it doesn't seem to be getting better.  we discover more shit to separate us every second- when there is literally 1000's of things that bind us. 

whatever... I'll be in the woodshop...

Can you make me a paddle or a rack.No fancy inlay,laminates or veneers,no need to dry it out or sand.We'll keep it in the Premium Lounge. You can shellac a little sand into it if you'd like

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2021, 05:22:03 PM

I figure HS history is fairly cut and dried.  At the college level, folks should be mature enough to accept "theory" and interpretation.

I know what I was taught in HS was, um, well, shaded, the US was always best and greatest and everything was hunky dory.

And the South won the war.  Or something.  I didn't learn much history in HS, we usually had coaches as teachers.

Memorize and regurg.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 13, 2021, 05:45:03 PM

A lot of companies want the appearance of doing something without actually doing anything. That's why they impose diversity classes - it covers for their hiring practices. They often hire whoever would teach such a thing, which is usually someone who specializes in "trainings" and other fluff. It ain't CRT, really has nothing to do with it whatsoever.

Some of these laws seem aimed at making sure no one says anything bad about white people during history class. Some of them seem aimed at making sure no one feels uncomfortable. Sort of political correctness, I suppose. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 13, 2021, 05:49:22 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 13, 2021, 04:47:10 PM

The anti-CRT stuff is pretty shamelessly just white people making sure no one says anything mean about white people in history class. That's all it is.

😂😂

what a predictable load of manure. 

not even close.  It is based on teaching all white children they should feel guilty, all black/brown people they are oppressed victims, and that everything should be viewed through a racial lens. In other words- racist, divisive crap that ensures the racial hatred not only continues, but that the seeds are planted and fertilized at much younger ages.  

you need to educate yourself on this before making such ridiculous comments- and stop the MSM news feeds. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 13, 2021, 05:51:35 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 13, 2021, 05:45:03 PM

A lot of companies want the appearance of doing something without actually doing anything. That's why they impose diversity classes - it covers for their hiring practices. They often hire whoever would teach such a thing, which is usually someone who specializes in "trainings" and other fluff. It ain't CRT, really has nothing to do with it whatsoever.

Some of these laws seem aimed at making sure no one says anything bad about white people during history class. Some of them seem aimed at making sure no one feels uncomfortable. Sort of political correctness, I suppose.

So at Woka Cola.... em.. I mean Coca Cola, the classes they forced on their employees was targeted at asking White people not to act so white.  

you see how far off you are from reality?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 13, 2021, 05:55:59 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 13, 2021, 05:49:22 PM

😂😂

what a predictable load of manure.

not even close.  It is based on teaching all white children they should feel guilty, all black/brown people they are oppressed victims, and that everything should be viewed through a racial lens. In other words- racist, divisive crap that ensures the racial hatred not only continues, but that the seeds are planted and fertilized at much younger ages. 

you need to educate yourself on this before making such ridiculous comments- and stop the MSM news feeds.

The horrible plight of white children being oppressed by learning about history.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on June 13, 2021, 06:01:34 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 13, 2021, 05:21:05 PM

Can you make me a paddle or a rack.No fancy inlay,laminates or veneers,no need to dry it out or sand.We'll keep it in the Premium Lounge. You can shellac a little sand into it if you'd like

Yup.. send me particulars and I can zap it right out! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 13, 2021, 06:19:38 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 13, 2021, 05:55:59 PM

The horrible plight of white children being oppressed by learning about history.

Sadly- history has nothing to do with it. 

teaching ALL children to hate, and that race is the basis for how everything needs to be discussed- now that is sad. 

Thankfully- the voices of ALL colors are growing rapidly against this racist and divisive curriculum!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 13, 2021, 06:31:18 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 13, 2021, 06:19:38 PM

Sadly- history has nothing to do with it.

teaching ALL children to hate, and that race is the basis for how everything needs to be discussed- now that is sad.

Thankfully- the voices of ALL colors are growing rapidly against this racist and divisive curriculum!

well said

I have no problem with teaching accurate history

I do have a problem of teaching division

we should be striving to unite in our schools

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2021, 06:48:50 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 13, 2021, 05:45:03 PM

A lot of companies want the appearance of doing something without actually doing anything. That's why they impose diversity classes - it covers for their hiring practices. They often hire whoever would teach such a thing, which is usually someone who specializes in "trainings" and other fluff. It ain't CRT, really has nothing to do with it whatsoever.

I read a bit about CRT, what I read is all over the map, but SOME of it closely resembles what I endured at work.

I was involved for ten years with recruiting, there was certainly major discrimination there on the basis of race and sex.  One year, there were two blacks in the country with the degree required, and our goal was to hire both of them, sight unseen.  One year we were told no white males would be invited for on site visits, not one.  Our hiring targets were typically 30-90 each year.  

We had diversity training each year because each VP had to put on his perf eval he provided diversity training.  He'd tell his admin to find something out there and have at it.  If they did not meet their diversity targets in hiring, they would lose stock options.

My closest friend at work was from South Africa, had red hair and freckles, his parents were Brits.  We discovered at one of these meetings about targets that the Company counted him as African American.  He was furious and wanted it changed but I managed to talk him out of that.  It was good for his career.

It's a number game, and those numbers impacted senior management's stock options at the end of the year.  It wasn't hidden at all.  I recall circa 1995 we were told Asians no longer counted for "diversity" and there was a collective groan from the audience.  At least Asian women still counted.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 13, 2021, 07:15:42 PM

Shot +20 today. +5 on the front and +15 on the back, so clearly the wheels were coming off a little on the back.

The two holes I pulled driver were 270 with a toe strike and ~300 with a cart path assist lol... 

Took the dog to a brewery and then an outdoor mall this afternoon. He's now spent.

Shrimp Fra Diavolo for dinner tonight.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 13, 2021, 07:31:28 PM

That’s golf.  38 on the front today, 46 on the back.   Hard course. 

Took the dogs swimming.  They to are spent.  Sloppy Joe’s for Dinner.  You win big. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 13, 2021, 07:40:25 PM

golf is so mental

one of the mind tricks I used to play was to tell myself I got a free shot off of every tee box

and I only had to par the hole from where my 1st shot ended up

I immediately cut 5 strokes off my avg score

One of the big mistakes a novice golfer makes is putting too much pressure on themselves 

this little mind game helped take the pressure off

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 13, 2021, 07:46:43 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 13, 2021, 06:48:50 PM

I read a bit about CRT, what I read is all over the map, but SOME of it closely resembles what I endured at work.

I was involved for ten years with recruiting, there was certainly major discrimination there on the basis of race and sex.  One year, there were two blacks in the country with the degree required, and our goal was to hire both of them, sight unseen.  One year we were told no white males would be invited for on site visits, not one.  Our hiring targets were typically 30-90 each year. 

We had diversity training each year because each VP had to put on his perf eval he provided diversity training.  He'd tell his admin to find something out there and have at it.  If they did not meet their diversity targets in hiring, they would lose stock options.

My closest friend at work was from South Africa, had red hair and freckles, his parents were Brits.  We discovered at one of these meetings about targets that the Company counted him as African American.  He was furious and wanted it changed but I managed to talk him out of that.  It was good for his career.

It's a number game, and those numbers impacted senior management's stock options at the end of the year.  It wasn't hidden at all.  I recall circa 1995 we were told Asians no longer counted for "diversity" and there was a collective groan from the audience.  At least Asian women still counted.

I'm sorry that your company example of sample size one did these poor ideas.
.
The republican party is masterful at inventing outrageous issues from nothingness.  
Let's fix in-person election fraud (which doesn't exist).
Let's forbid this ideology from schools which isn't found in the standards actually taught.
.
Their sheep followers will blindly agree and start frothing at the mouth NO MATTER WHAT.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 13, 2021, 07:55:17 PM

HB, your attitude seems to rely on people alive now having some sort of behavioral connection of their ancestors.
When slavery is taught, it's that white people (mostly) bought and sold black people (mostly) and that it was wrong.  It was common place back then, but it was obviously wrong.  We should avoid doing wrong things moving forward (as we have, largely) since slavery ended.
.
It has nothing to do with anyone alive today, aside from all people should avoid doing the wrong thing. 
Same as teaching that ancient Greeks believed a god rode the sun across the sky.  That was incorrect.  Here is what IS correct.
Same as teaching standards that being in kindergarten and continue up to middle school, adding in content, context, and usage.  Teach that there are seasons, teach the traits of each season, how people dress differently in each season, moving on to why there are seasons, that seasons are opposite in each hemisphere, etc, and onto how farmers plant in a certain season and harvest in another, how battles in the past often paused during winter, etc... and so on.
.
Sorry, we're not indoctrinating 6 year-olds with white guilt.  Go preach crazy elsewhere, please.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 13, 2021, 08:50:18 PM

Its not only conservatives against CRT

across this nation people of all races are speaking out against it

https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-rights/555194-one-fathers-stand-against-critical-race-theory-were-indoctrinating-our

https://mynorthwest.com/2937573/rantz-teacher-uses-science-class-to-call-white-middle-schoolers-privileged-oppressors/?

https://www.newsweek.com/asian-americans-emerging-strong-voice-against-critical-race-theory-opinion-1574503

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 13, 2021, 09:03:28 PM

I would put a teacher in the ICU if I found out that they were teaching my kids to be ashamed of their own heritage. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 13, 2021, 09:07:56 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 13, 2021, 06:48:50 PM

I read a bit about CRT, what I read is all over the map, but SOME of it closely resembles what I endured at work.

I was involved for ten years with recruiting, there was certainly major discrimination there on the basis of race and sex.  One year, there were two blacks in the country with the degree required, and our goal was to hire both of them, sight unseen.  One year we were told no white males would be invited for on site visits, not one.  Our hiring targets were typically 30-90 each year. 

We had diversity training each year because each VP had to put on his perf eval he provided diversity training.  He'd tell his admin to find something out there and have at it.  If they did not meet their diversity targets in hiring, they would lose stock options.

My closest friend at work was from South Africa, had red hair and freckles, his parents were Brits.  We discovered at one of these meetings about targets that the Company counted him as African American.  He was furious and wanted it changed but I managed to talk him out of that.  It was good for his career.

It's a number game, and those numbers impacted senior management's stock options at the end of the year.  It wasn't hidden at all.  I recall circa 1995 we were told Asians no longer counted for "diversity" and there was a collective groan from the audience.  At least Asian women still counted.

Right! They didn't care. Here, the VP needs better stock options, go hire a guy for some low level position and by the way here are a qualifications that will make this impossible.

It's basically cover for the overall practices to make for good p.r. and keep them off of federal radars. I'm always amazed at the ability of black people to put up with this utter foolishness, watching this charade.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 13, 2021, 09:22:42 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 13, 2021, 08:50:18 PM

Its not only conservatives against CRT

across this nation people of all races are speaking out against it

https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-rights/555194-one-fathers-stand-against-critical-race-theory-were-indoctrinating-our

https://mynorthwest.com/2937573/rantz-teacher-uses-science-class-to-call-white-middle-schoolers-privileged-oppressors/?

https://www.newsweek.com/asian-americans-emerging-strong-voice-against-critical-race-theory-opinion-1574503

Two of those there sources are conservatives. One seems to have indeterminate politics. 

One thing that is clear is that more than being a real threat to much, it's a great boogey man. It's such a good boogeyman that previous boogeymen, cancel culture and repressing speech, are now being used to cancel and repress it. All in all, it feels like a moving target to direct anger toward some folks rather than seek places to build common bonds. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 13, 2021, 09:24:25 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on June 13, 2021, 09:03:28 PM

I would put a teacher in the ICU if I found out that they were teaching my kids to be ashamed of their own heritage.

People's desire to fantasize about committing violent crimes is always interesting. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 13, 2021, 09:31:50 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on June 13, 2021, 09:03:28 PM

I would put a teacher in the ICU if I found out that they were teaching my kids to be ashamed of their own heritage.

Hopefully you aren't German

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 13, 2021, 09:37:42 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on June 13, 2021, 09:03:28 PM

I would put a teacher in the ICU if I found out that they were teaching my kids to be ashamed of their own heritage.

tough guy 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 13, 2021, 09:38:23 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 13, 2021, 09:22:42 PM

Two of those there sources are conservatives. One seems to have indeterminate politics.

One thing that is clear is that more than being a real threat to much, it's a great boogey man. It's such a good boogeyman that previous boogeymen, cancel culture and repressing speech, are now being used to cancel and repress it. All in all, it feels like a moving target to direct anger toward some folks rather than seek places to build common bonds.

Backwards.    As usual.  Your boogeyman- the one that some districts are teaching/ or want to/ is the fake concept of white guilt.  

Just because you and Fro are hiding under the covers from that mystical, non existent talking point- good luck getting the rest of us to.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 13, 2021, 09:39:41 PM

43 -41 for me

course was set up for the club championship

it could have been better or worse

the beer cart girl was pleasant

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 13, 2021, 09:41:01 PM

history is history, facts are facts

good luck teaching just facts

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 13, 2021, 09:48:36 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 13, 2021, 09:24:25 PM

People's desire to fantasize about committing violent crimes is always interesting.

When they are abusing my children? Hell yeah. 

No greater justification for violence exists than that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 13, 2021, 09:50:22 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 13, 2021, 09:38:23 PM

Backwards.    As usual.  Your boogeyman- the one that some districts are teaching/ or want to/ is the fake concept of white guilt. 

Just because you and Fro are hiding under the covers from that mystical, non existent talking point- good luck getting the rest of us to. 

Even if it is as scary or offensive as you're telling me it is, it's still being used as a boogyman to get some folks riled up against some other folks. It's certianly fair to argue that the idea of past malfeasance of a white power structure is also being used as a boogeyman to rile folks up. 

I don't really understand what that second part means. I know people are very mad at this idea and seeking to cancel it with extreme prejudice (to be clear, that's the military use of the word prejudice, not the other lights it's used in). Even canceling it with overbroad legislation that's going to be a real mess to clear up vis a vis the first amendment. 

(On a personal level, I care relatively little about CRT. I suppose that means I'm an outlier in trying to not have super strong feelings about much in the culture wars. Keep my strong feelings for the triple option, certain football tactics and I suppose the dream we can be mostly in this together) 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 13, 2021, 09:55:49 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on June 13, 2021, 09:48:36 PM

When they are abusing my children? Hell yeah.

No greater justification for violence exists than that.

Abusing? 

I mean, it can certianly be taking as a very shitty thing to say. If if all shitty things said to folks were great justifications for violence, we'd be living in some sort of hellscape. 

That said, it's still mostly fantasy. I know you're a smart person and a levelheaded member of society. You know that doing such a thing with the consequences would overall be detrimental to your family and yourself. The desire to fantasize is what it is, I suppose. I can't remember, are your kids even kids anymore? I thought not, but don't remember. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 13, 2021, 10:09:23 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 13, 2021, 09:55:49 PM

Abusing?

I mean, it can certianly be taking as a very shitty thing to say. If if all shitty things said to folks were great justifications for violence, we'd be living in some sort of hellscape.

That said, it's still mostly fantasy. I know you're a smart person and a levelheaded member of society. You know that doing such a thing with the consequences would overall be detrimental to your family and yourself. The desire to fantasize is what it is, I suppose. I can't remember, are your kids even kids anymore? I thought not, but don't remember.

why are you taking issue with him and not sticking to the subject

point is folks on both sides of the isle will not tolerate school children being taught in this fashion

it matters not what you yourself believe rest assured the majority of the American people dont want CRT and are doing things to stop it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 13, 2021, 10:19:44 PM

the subject of... other news?

the public school system has been failing us for decades, perhaps longer

fortunately, it only influences some young people until they go to college which might be worse

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 13, 2021, 10:23:09 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 13, 2021, 09:55:49 PM

Abusing?

I mean, it can certianly be taking as a very shitty thing to say. If if all shitty things said to folks were great justifications for violence, we'd be living in some sort of hellscape.

That said, it's still mostly fantasy. I know you're a smart person and a levelheaded member of society. You know that doing such a thing with the consequences would overall be detrimental to your family and yourself. The desire to fantasize is what it is, I suppose. I can't remember, are your kids even kids anymore? I thought not, but don't remember.

Well of course it is a hypothetical scenario. I don't even have kids. But if I did, I would pattern my reaction to this after what you would expect from a black guy who witnessed a teacher calling his son the N-word.
Yeah, the consequences would obviously suck. I'd have to do it in a manner where I was unlikely to get caught.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 13, 2021, 10:29:26 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on June 13, 2021, 06:01:34 PM

Yup.. send me particulars and I can zap it right out!

Thinking a cactus rack and changed my mind - laminate plywood paddle with oak/hickory/maple for strength and with plenty of holes for velocity. Or we can just use manhole covers like the Volunteer Navy use to

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 13, 2021, 11:14:44 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 13, 2021, 09:50:22 PM

Even if it is as scary or offensive as you're telling me it is, it's still being used as a boogyman to get some folks riled up against some other folks. It's certianly fair to argue that the idea of past malfeasance of a white power structure is also being used as a boogeyman to rile folks up.

I don't really understand what that second part means. I know people are very mad at this idea and seeking to cancel it with extreme prejudice (to be clear, that's the military use of the word prejudice, not the other lights it's used in). Even canceling it with overbroad legislation that's going to be a real mess to clear up vis a vis the first amendment.

(On a personal level, I care relatively little about CRT. I suppose that means I'm an outlier in trying to not have super strong feelings about much in the culture wars. Keep my strong feelings for the triple option, certain football tactics and I suppose the dream we can be mostly in this together)

Chicken and Egg.  It’s not “ being used” to rile people. It’s existence is what riles people- and an outcome of that “being riled” is the vocal opposition and legislation you are now seeing. 
Elected officials- theoretically elected by the people and for the people, are reacting to their constituents who do not want taxpayer dollars used to have this stuff taught to their children because they feel it is racist and divisive.  They feel it borders on Marxism and certainly is anti-American. 

mainly- they feel it will divide us even more, and that is what it is designed to do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 13, 2021, 11:23:32 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 13, 2021, 10:19:44 PM

the subject of... other news?

the public school system has been failing us for decades, perhaps longer

fortunately, it only influences some young people until they go to college which might be worse

So an improvement would be.....what?
Being taught by your parents' version of things?  Learning the sum knowledge of 2 people rather than the many who put together the current system? 
.
Enjoy that shit.
.
Free public education is why ignorant nobodies are able to cry out "We're number 1!" when it comes to the US's place in the world.  It's why millionaires and billionaires are a thing.  It's how automobiles and airplanes became a thing. 
.
If you want to go back to living in a cave and grunting at your neaderthal kin, be my guest.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 13, 2021, 11:24:15 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on June 13, 2021, 09:03:28 PM

I would put a teacher in the ICU if I found out that they were teaching my kids to be ashamed of their own heritage.

You would make a poor teacher.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 13, 2021, 11:26:56 PM

You are a poor teacher.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 13, 2021, 11:31:19 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on June 13, 2021, 11:26:56 PM

You are a poor teacher.

Again, I'm not the caricature you imagine me to be.  You're stating as fact something you literally have zero knowledge about.  Is that what a teacher would do?
.
I forgive you, because you're upset that your kind is being phased out.  It's predictable that you'd react poorly to that.  I'm so sorry that progress isn't your thing.
.
Maybe go pray about it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 13, 2021, 11:40:19 PM

Thank you for proving my point. I rest my case.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 13, 2021, 11:54:28 PM

You truly live in another reality.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 14, 2021, 12:14:38 AM

I definitely reside in a reality quite different than your existence of blind, unwavering conformity to the borg, yes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 14, 2021, 12:51:49 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on June 14, 2021, 12:14:38 AM

I definitely reside in a reality quite different than your existence of blind, unwavering conformity to the borg, yes.

I guess this is what you don't understand:  I could say the same exact thing to you.  Trump proved 40% of the country is a blind sheep.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 14, 2021, 12:54:43 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 14, 2021, 12:51:49 AM

I guess this is what you don't understand:  I could say the same exact thing to you.  Trump proved 40% of the country is a blind sheep. 

well maybe he'll do better the 2nd time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 14, 2021, 01:07:52 AM

Well, he loves the poorly educated, so...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 14, 2021, 01:54:18 AM

Yeah, if I was a parent of a child that had fro as a teacher, that would end badly for at least one of us.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 14, 2021, 05:53:05 AM

Was there ever a greater tradition amongst fine men than inventing imaginary people and then threatening to kick their ass

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 14, 2021, 06:05:05 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on June 14, 2021, 01:54:18 AM

Yeah, if I was a parent of a child that had fro as a teacher, that would end badly for at least one of us.

Yes, your child would correct you on matters of fact and your ego would be wounded.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2021, 06:17:51 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 13, 2021, 09:31:50 PM

Hopefully you aren't German

I am.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2021, 06:25:20 AM

I have to imagine that my "History of Western Civilization" book from college reads a lot differently today, than it did 35 years ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 14, 2021, 06:40:29 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2021, 06:17:51 AM

I am.

Germany hasn't f'd around as much as we have. It's largely illegal to celebrate their shameful historical acts. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2021, 06:52:06 AM

Other than a few whack jobs, do see people celebrating our bad historical actions?

Every country has whack jobs. 

Go to Europe. It's not Utopia. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 14, 2021, 06:56:57 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2021, 06:52:06 AM

Other than a few whack jobs, do see people celebrating our bad historical actions?

Uh, yeah.

(https://i.imgur.com/xUKzLlN.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 14, 2021, 07:06:16 AM

I was chatting yesterday a bit with my South African friend, he reminded me of one "diversity training" we both attended where we were asked to write on a board everything we had "heard" about black folks.  They were largely pejorative items, to some extent, like they didn't swim well, etc.  The "moderator" used that to "prove" we were all racist.  Fortunately I wrote some positive things sensing where he was headed but most of the items we had HEARD others say were negative.

Then we were to write "bad things" in history that our government had done to black folks, starting of course with slavery.  By then, the group (of managers mostly) were twice shy and wrote little down so the moderator had to write HIS items.  The "conclusion" was government is racist, so everyone in the room AND government was racist and keeping the man down.  By then we all were just sitting there with arms crossed hoping it would end soon.  The dude then wanted us to do "role playing" (a tactic I utterly despise) and a couple of the more junior folks complied and the session got even more ridiculous.

This was one event of course, in a large company, and I seriously doubt other large companies were not hiring the same outside groups to do the same things.  One thing I learned was whatever silliness happened at our company was happening at other large companies as well.

When I reached a certain point in my "career", I stopped attending these "mandatory" meetings.  I figured I'd get a call at some point from some Admin, but it never happened.  Nobody really cared whether we went or not.  I had another friend who was a director, he told me they all got $X for diversity training, and they had to do something, so they'd have their Admin call around to find some outfit to do something once a year, or twice perhaps.  Whether it was effective or useful was unimportant.

We were of course adults, most of us, and by then we knew to brush off most of the yaya the company would foist off on  us.  I found once I eliminated the yaya, there was very little left.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2021, 07:15:32 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 14, 2021, 06:56:57 AM

Uh, yeah.

(https://i.imgur.com/xUKzLlN.png)

There are many different views on that monument. Some people believe it's white supremist. Others believe it was to honor those who took up arms against the Federal government in an effort to preserve the rights of states. And then there is a lot in between.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 14, 2021, 07:23:03 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2021, 07:15:32 AM

There are many different views on that monument. Some people believe it's white supremist. Others believe it was to honor those who took up arms against the Federal government in an effort to preserve the rights of states. And then there is a lot in between.

I mean, there is a factual view, which is that they fought against America to preserve their right to buy, sell, and rape black people. It's shameful at it's core, and really, not much different than Nazi Germany. I could hang a swastika flag and say I'm just big on German pride. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 14, 2021, 07:27:25 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 14, 2021, 07:23:03 AM

I mean, there is a factual view, which is that they fought against America to preserve their right to buy, sell, and rape black people. It's shameful at it's core, and really, not much different than Nazi Germany. I could hang a swastika flag and say I'm just big on German pride.

So, would that make those who defeated them, heroes?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 14, 2021, 07:29:46 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 14, 2021, 07:27:25 AM

So, would that make those who defeated them, heroes?

Yes!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 14, 2021, 07:35:42 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2021, 07:15:32 AM

There are many different views on that monument. Some people believe it's white supremist. Others believe it was to honor those who took up arms against the Federal government in an effort to preserve the rights of states. And then there is a lot in between.

This does work against something Cincy mentioned, that you can teach history as "just the facts." Becuase a lot of folks push that thing, and it leaves out a sort of crucial fact and tries to sand blast away another. In a sense, it's an effort to erase history, which was sort of ironically a complaint about removing some of those things. 

Anyway, making the monument was bandied about for a few decades and only finally got going fully in the late 1950s and early 1960s. Some things were going on then, maybe pushed sentiment. It is a nice reminder that participation trophy culture is far from new. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 14, 2021, 07:36:37 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 14, 2021, 07:29:46 AM

Yes!

Well, this is what I learned in History all the way back in 6th and 7th grade ( early 70s).

The teachers were crystal clear about the abhorrent deeds of those who were involved in years of slavery, and how its effects continue. 

so why now do we need to change those teachings to make it clear all white people were in on it when so many died to stop it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 14, 2021, 07:40:53 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 13, 2021, 10:09:23 PM

why are you taking issue with him and not sticking to the subject

point is folks on both sides of the isle will not tolerate school children being taught in this fashion

it matters not what you yourself believe rest assured the majority of the American people dont want CRT and are doing things to stop it

There's no set subject. I was curious about the man's line of thinking. I understand the context better now. 

As for the old CRT, still feels like a boogeyman being used to offend people, and offended people are working hard to cancel it. I have no great interest in it being taught in schools (to be honest, it seems the definition of it shifts depending on how upset one is by it), but the firepower being brought to crush this particular form of speech is interesting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 14, 2021, 07:41:32 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on June 13, 2021, 10:23:09 PM

Well of course it is a hypothetical scenario. I don't even have kids. But if I did, I would pattern my reaction to this after what you would expect from a black guy who witnessed a teacher calling his son the N-word.
Yeah, the consequences would obviously suck. I'd have to do it in a manner where I was unlikely to get caught.

Ah, OK. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 14, 2021, 07:58:37 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 14, 2021, 07:40:53 AM

There's no set subject. I was curious about the man's line of thinking. I understand the context better now.

As for the old CRT, still feels like a boogeyman being used to offend people, and offended people are working hard to cancel it. I have no great interest in it being taught in schools (to be honest, it seems the definition of it shifts depending on how upset one is by it), but the firepower being brought to crush this particular form of speech is interesting.

Seems so hypocritical and disingenuous for you to say this. 

public policy is being loudly and openly debated. Voices are being heard.  To my knowledge no voice in favor of CRT is being canceled or suppressed. In fact- it seems that those who do not want this taught to their children are often being canceled or called Racist.  So what are you talking about?
Clearly your views are more closely aligned with the left to far left. Their playbook has been cancel and suppress opposing views, or pull the racist card- for a long time.  That is blatantly obvious.  You should be very comfy with it now.

Talk about boogeymen...  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 14, 2021, 08:13:40 AM

How Chevy made Its 3.0L Duramax Diesel Inline-Six So Efficient (automobilemag.com) (https://www.automobilemag.com/news/how-chevrolet-made-3-0l-duramax-diesel-so-efficient/?sm_id=organic_fb_AMAG_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR2UyEu0IYrb8_PJs7WeI6ZE6bgGu2CE5as0kjNfolAvrCpcBPAchf4t98I)

29 PSI boost.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 14, 2021, 08:16:18 AM

There was, perhaps, a time when someone might hang the Confederate Battle Flag as a sign of regional pride, or something.  Today, I think anyone who does that outside a museum is trying to send a message, a clear one.  I cannot think of another reason to display it today.  imagery counts.  If I see one, I am justified in making an assessment about the individual displaying it.

There used to be a barn just off I-71 north of Cincy that had it on its roof.

I don't see them around here for some reason.  I see a LOT of "gay flags" though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2021, 08:25:59 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 14, 2021, 07:29:46 AM

Yes!

I think what was done to the Natives of this land is probably "our" biggest sin.

I also think what is commonly overlooked is who exactly was selling slaves to be brought here. Had there been no supply, there would not be a market.

History.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 14, 2021, 08:39:06 AM

Going to war over business interests would be on the top ten list IMHO.  Banana Wars, wag the dog wars, the Mexican conflict, the war with Spain, a lot of wars.

But the native Americans were badly mistreated repeatedly, no doubt, and were viewed as subhuman of course.  And most today live in difficult circumstances.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 14, 2021, 08:49:06 AM

FORT WORTH, Texas - At a time when gender pronouns and gender identity are in the forefront, a North Texas university is updating its language.

TCU will now call freshman, first-year students, in an effort to be more gender inclusive.


https://www.fox4news.com/news/tcu-replaces-freshman-title-with-first-year-student (https://www.fox4news.com/news/tcu-replaces-freshman-title-with-first-year-student)

_________________________________________________ _______________________

I certainly hope this helps the world ascend to a better place

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 14, 2021, 08:50:53 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 14, 2021, 06:40:29 AM

Germany hasn't f'd around as much as we have. It's largely illegal to celebrate their shameful historical acts.

You mean the gassing of 6M Jews?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 14, 2021, 08:53:37 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2021, 08:25:59 AM

I think what was done to the Natives of this land is probably "our" biggest sin.

I also think what is commonly overlooked is who exactly was selling slaves to be brought here. Had there been no supply, there would not be a market.

History.

This.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 14, 2021, 08:56:25 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/1GUNShd.png)      (https://i.imgur.com/SvxtLje.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 14, 2021, 09:00:46 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 14, 2021, 08:13:40 AM

How Chevy made Its 3.0L Duramax Diesel Inline-Six So Efficient (automobilemag.com) (https://www.automobilemag.com/news/how-chevrolet-made-3-0l-duramax-diesel-so-efficient/?sm_id=organic_fb_AMAG_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR2UyEu0IYrb8_PJs7WeI6ZE6bgGu2CE5as0kjNfolAvrCpcBPAchf4t98I)

29 PSI boost. 

CD ever heard of this guy pretty informative/funny/interesting and usually has a Q&A session

https://youtu.be/kua9I49rcCQ?list=RDCMUCuxpxCCevIlF-k-K5YU8XPA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 14, 2021, 09:11:02 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 13, 2021, 09:31:50 PM (https://www.cfb51.com/big-ten/in-other-news-18271/msg344181/#msg344181)

Quote

Hopefully you aren't German

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2021, 06:17:51 AM

I am.

I'm 1/2,the rest is either Yeti or Billygoat. So what now we take our Beer/Brats and go Home? Seeing as they came over before the Civil War I think I'll stay

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 14, 2021, 09:16:58 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on June 13, 2021, 10:23:09 PM

Well of course it is a hypothetical scenario. I don't even have kids. 

Pot Stirrer - report to Fearless

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 14, 2021, 09:25:09 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 13, 2021, 11:54:28 PM

You truly live in another reality. 

Says the knob who accuses those of helping the less fortunate of only doing so as to manipulate them later. Maybe your heroes in ANIFA will get back to torching other people's shit that should cheer you up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on June 14, 2021, 09:43:50 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 13, 2021, 08:50:18 PM

Its not only conservatives against CRT

across this nation people of all races are speaking out against it

I was really surprised to learn that a liberal couple I know from Northern VA is pulling their two children out of public school because of...guess what the last straw was? Both are confirmed Catholic who left the church years ago. They are both joining their local parish, taking communion, and attending confessional again, all as complement to sending their little ones into Catholic school.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 14, 2021, 10:16:53 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 14, 2021, 09:25:09 AM

Says the knob who accuses those of helping the less fortunate of only doing so as to manipulate them later. Maybe your heroes in ANIFA will get back to torching other people's shit that should cheer you up

😂😂😂😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on June 14, 2021, 10:19:48 AM

My kid thought i was a yeti until she was at least 6 and I told her not to tell anyone... now I tell her to not tell anyone I'm not a yeti. The other part is leprechaun...

@OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) , sir, you work in academia and there truly is no more well defined bubble.  Sorry, not sorry, it's the truth.  At the same time you dont- regardless of postulations and theory- have a better grip on reality of culture in the US. 

I'm not saying I do either.  I have my own bubble of skull crackers and supporting ensemble called the Corps. 

All: We have an opportunity here to use college football as the glue to bind different cultures and customs, walks of life from poverty to wealth, and a full spectrum of political ideology... we should is it to understand others rather than box them up and ridicule them.

Break....

I see all manner of birds of prey nowadays I never saw when I was a kid.  Theyre seemingly everywhere.  Earlier this morning while sticking down the magic beans of consciousness (coffee)  I watched an osprey being chased by two brave Blue Jay's... I see hawks all the time of several varieties, owls, and even a falcon... its a huge thing the size of a red tailed hawk but it's black and white. I only know it's a falcon because someone told me- I would have guessed it's a marked cruiser in the hawk genre. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 14, 2021, 10:21:08 AM

WASHINGTON (AP) — With abortion and guns already on the agenda, the conservative-dominated Supreme Court is considering adding a third blockbuster issue — whether to ban consideration of race in college admissions.

The justices on Monday put off a decision about whether they will hear an appeal claiming that Harvard discriminates against Asian American applicants, in a case that could have nationwide repercussions. The court asked the Justice Department to weigh in on the case, a process that typically takes several months.


https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-defers-harvard-case-race-college-admissions-3fe067e3ebadf7c568d29f89c6719566 (https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-defers-harvard-case-race-college-admissions-3fe067e3ebadf7c568d29f89c6719566)

_________________________________________________ _______________________________

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court is leaving in place the convictions of two men who as members of a white supremacist group participated in a white nationalist rally in Virginia in 2017 that turned violent.

The high court said Monday that it would not take the case of Michael Miselis or Benjamin Daley, who participated in the rally as members of the “Rise Above Movement,” or “RAM.” Both pleaded guilty to federal rioting charges in connection with the Virginia rally.

As is typical, the high court didn’t comment in turning away their cases.


https://apnews.com/article/government-and-politics-va-state-wire-us-supreme-court-virginia-race-and-ethnicity-30bcee24fbf03cb827ea7b7de5c37db2 (https://apnews.com/article/government-and-politics-va-state-wire-us-supreme-court-virginia-race-and-ethnicity-30bcee24fbf03cb827ea7b7de5c37db2)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 14, 2021, 05:32:01 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 14, 2021, 07:36:37 AM

so why now do we need to change those teachings to make it clear all white people were in on it 

You're inventing shit now.  No one is teaching this.  Stop.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 14, 2021, 05:36:19 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 14, 2021, 07:58:37 AM

Seems so hypocritical and disingenuous for you to say this. 

public policy is being loudly and openly debated. Voices are being heard.  To my knowledge no voice in favor of CRT is being canceled or suppressed. In fact- it seems that those who do not want this taught to their children are often being canceled or called Racist.  So what are you talking about?
Clearly your views are more closely aligned with the left to far left. Their playbook has been cancel and suppress opposing views, or pull the racist card- for a long time.  That is blatantly obvious.  You should be very comfy with it now.

Talk about boogeymen... 

No.  No, no, no, no.
As a teacher, it's literally my job to teach what happened (in this subject and case).  If a student has an opposing view, it's absolutely not canceled or suppressed, but investigated for validity.  If it's an invalid view, that's a "teachable moment."  It's not an "Ha-ha!" or "gotcha" moment in any way.  
.
Wen you're discussing teaching and learning, you're talking so far out of your ass, I don't know how to properly describe it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 14, 2021, 05:38:03 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 14, 2021, 08:50:53 AM

You mean the gassing of 6M Jews?

How many natives do you think populated the whole continent of North America before we showed up?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 14, 2021, 05:41:32 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2021, 08:25:59 AM

I think what was done to the Natives of this land is probably "our" biggest sin.

I also think what is commonly overlooked is who exactly was selling slaves to be brought here. Had there been no supply, there would not be a market.

History.

So I'm going to ask if this is what you're saying:
African guy who took a village by force and has a bunch of defeated peoples under him is standing on the coast.
Huge ship sails up and pale people yell out, "hey, can we buy those people you dominated?"
African guy says, "No!"
Pale people from ship, "Oh, okay.  We'll move on then!"
.
Is this what would have happened, with a lack of supply?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 14, 2021, 06:34:42 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 14, 2021, 07:36:37 AM

Well, this is what I learned in History all the way back in 6th and 7th grade ( early 70s).

The teachers were crystal clear about the abhorrent deeds of those who were involved in years of slavery, and how its effects continue.

so why now do we need to change those teachings to make it clear all white people were in on it when so many died to stop it?

Who is trying to teach that all white people are in on slavery. Or that the Civil War didn't happen? There has been a century long effort to rehab the image of the Confederacy into some sort of noble cause. I can't imagine a bigger bunch of spit on Union soldiers than saying the Confederacy was some sort of decent operation based on noble differences in policy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 14, 2021, 06:34:59 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on June 14, 2021, 10:19:48 AM

I see all manner of birds of prey nowadays I never saw when I was a kid.  Theyre seemingly everywhere.  Earlier this morning while sticking down the magic beans of consciousness (coffee)  I watched an osprey being chased by two brave Blue Jay's... I see hawks all the time of several varieties, owls, and even a falcon... its a huge thing the size of a red tailed hawk but it's black and white. I only know it's a falcon because someone told me- I would have guessed it's a marked cruiser in the hawk genre. 

I have a woods and a creek  between my house and a park and have plenty of Coopers Hawks around which catch alot of birds,seen them grab Blue Jays quite a bit 😎.Last summer however as I went into the backyard  by the woodline I heard what I thought was a Huey Helicopter lifting off WHOOSH .It was a RedTailed Hawk,biggest bird I've seen up close,evidently we startled each other and as he  took off dropped a squirrel he caught he scared the crap out of my neighbor also.But the Bird stopped in the neighbors tree.He worked hard for that squirrel and wasn't going to let a couple of schleppers make off with his meal.We came back about 20 minutes later and the Hawk/Squirrel were gone.We do have Bald Eagles around mostly along the Lake Erie Shore

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 14, 2021, 06:39:48 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2021, 08:25:59 AM

I think what was done to the Natives of this land is probably "our" biggest sin.

I also think what is commonly overlooked is who exactly was selling slaves to be brought here. Had there been no supply, there would not be a market.

History.

I mean, I wouldn't support putting some statues of African kings or the various slavers who helped raid and spark conflict in the region, either. Also, the importation of slaves was banned in 1808. Didn't exactly kill the slave trade. In any event, why would that make anyone celebrate plantation owners rebelling against America so that they wouldn't lose money?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 14, 2021, 06:40:23 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 14, 2021, 08:50:53 AM

You mean the gassing of 6M Jews?

Yes that is usually viewed as the worst thing about the Nazis

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 14, 2021, 06:42:19 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 14, 2021, 09:11:02 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 13, 2021, 09:31:50 PM (https://www.cfb51.com/big-ten/in-other-news-18271/msg344181/#msg344181)I'm 1/2,the rest is either Yeti or Billygoat. So what now we take our Beer/Brats and go Home? Seeing as they came over before the Civil War I think I'll stay

Naw buddy eat some brats and drink some hefeweizen. It's a good thing that Germany has a proper amount of shame.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 14, 2021, 06:52:27 PM

The Nazis, and Hitler, started WW Two, most of it anyway, leading to the deaths of how many, 40 million? 80?  We don't even know.  And how much massive destruction?

The 6 million is horrific of course and hard to imagine, civilians and defenseless (for the most part).  

• World War II was the deadliest military conflict in history in terms of total dead, with some 75 million people casualties including military and civilians, or around 3% of the world’s population at the time.
• Many civilians died because of deliberate genocide, massacres, mass-bombings, disease, and starvation.
• The Soviet Union lost around 27 million people during the war, including 8.7 million military and 19 million civilians. This represents the most military deaths of any nation by a large margin.
• Germany sustained 5.3 million military losses, mostly on the Eastern Front and during the final battles in Germany.
• Of the total number of deaths in World War II, approximately 85 percent were on the Allied side and 15 percent were on the Axis side, with many of these deaths caused by war crimes committed by German and Japanese forces in occupied territories.
• Nazi Germany, as part of a deliberate program of extermination, systematically killed over 11 million people including 6 million Jews.
• In addition to Nazi concentration camps, the Soviet gulags (labor camps) led to the deaths of 3.6 million civilians.

We spent a night in Orlean, pretty nice city, interesting, most of it was bombed out, and they tried to rebuilt is something like how it was.  We did the bombing of course.  Probably the best B&B I've ever stayed at there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 14, 2021, 06:58:10 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 14, 2021, 05:36:19 PM

No.  No, no, no, no.
As a teacher, it's literally my job to teach what happened (in this subject and case).  If a student has an opposing view, it's absolutely not canceled or suppressed, but investigated for validity.  If it's an invalid view, that's a "teachable moment."  It's not an "Ha-ha!" or "gotcha" moment in any way. 
.
Wen you're discussing teaching and learning, you're talking so far out of your ass, I don't know how to properly describe it. 

You are the dumbest person I have come across in a long time.  And you are a liar.  And nobody is buying it.  And, yes, it is exactly what they are teaching in some places. Universities, and some inner city schools.  EXACTLY.  And you know that.

you can whine about it being exposed until forever.  It won’t change what is going on and why so many will stand up in opposition
And, if your willing to put your lack of credibility out there by claiming the left is NOT censoring, leveraging cancel culture, and completely suppressing news that disproves YOUR narrative- don’t be so surprised that you cant be taken seriously. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 14, 2021, 07:28:48 PM

So you can stop talking out YOUR ass, here is a place you may want to start to educate yourself :

https://newdiscourses.com/2020/06/beginners-curriculum-critical-race-theory/

It will give you a better understanding of the roots of Critical Race Theory, Whiteness studies, White Fragility, and the spectrum of beliefs and approaches out there. More importantly it gives you suggested reference books, essays and teachings.  And lastly some of this material will make you and SAM more aware of what is already out there, being taught, and where it appears to be evolving to. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 14, 2021, 08:47:19 PM

Sharing a website that soothes your confirmation bias isn't helpful.  It never is.  But it's the only type of link you ever post.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 14, 2021, 08:50:50 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 14, 2021, 06:34:42 PM

Who is trying to teach that all white people are in on slavery. Or that the Civil War didn't happen? There has been a century long effort to rehab the image of the Confederacy into some sort of noble cause. I can't imagine a bigger bunch of spit on Union soldiers than saying the Confederacy was some sort of decent operation based on noble differences in policy.

His interwebs sources tell him it's happening and so it's a giant boogeyman to be afraid of.
Poor republicans, always told to fear something that isn't real.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 14, 2021, 08:59:12 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 14, 2021, 07:28:48 PM

So you can stop talking out YOUR ass, here is a place you may want to start to educate yourself :

https://newdiscourses.com/2020/06/beginners-curriculum-critical-race-theory/

It will give you a better understanding of the roots of Critical Race Theory, Whiteness studies, White Fragility, and the spectrum of beliefs and approaches out there. More importantly it gives you suggested reference books, essays and teachings.  And lastly some of this material will make you and SAM more aware of what is already out there, being taught, and where it appears to be evolving to.

I have actually followed them before. Lindsay is kind of a nut, but Pluckrose is pretty reasonable. And many of their criticisms are good. But they also tend to miss the forest in the trees. Badge points out, rightly, that African people were happy to sell slaves. But they were overwhelmingly people they captured during conflicts and wars with other tribes. More recently, Rwanda had an entire genocide where the one ethnic group attacked another.

People constantly chime in, on this site, about how various tribes flock together. And perhaps it is. But there is another side to this coin. Some groups are going to get some unearned benefits and some are going to get some unearned problems. The idea that we should ban talking about this, which everyone knows is true, is pretty crazy. It is the height of political correctness.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 14, 2021, 09:05:24 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 14, 2021, 08:47:19 PM

Sharing a website that soothes your confirmation bias isn't helpful.  It never is.  But it's the only type of link you ever post.

If you weren’t such an idiot and could actually read you would see that the ratings listed there do not confirm anything that I’m saying but give a very balanced point of view.

But what the books and readings do confirm is how obviously incorrect you are when you claim to know what is not being taught when in fact it actually is.

so many things and so many bogeyman living rent free in that empty head of yours. Please stop discussing things of which you clearly know absolutely nothing about and please please stop using the fact that you’re a teacher as an excuse for your stupidity when you’re trying to pretend you are knowledgeable

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 14, 2021, 09:11:23 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 14, 2021, 08:59:12 PM

I have actually followed them before. Lindsay is kind of a nut, but Pluckrose is pretty reasonable. And many of their criticisms are good. But they also tend to miss the forest in the trees. Badge points out, rightly, that African people were happy to sell slaves. But they were overwhelmingly people they captured during conflicts and wars with other tribes. More recently, Rwanda had an entire genocide where the one ethnic group attacked another.

People constantly chime in, on this site, about how various tribes flock together. And perhaps it is. But there is another side to this coin. Some groups are going to get some unearned benefits and some are going to get some unearned problems. The idea that we should ban talking about this, which everyone knows is true, is pretty crazy. It is the height of political correctness.

Oh I am actually all for talking about virtually all aspects of this “tribal“ flocking thing-  ecause it is actually very real. 

But let’s not pretend that’s what’s being objected to because it’s not. What’s being objective to is the idea that one tribe is the owner and to blame for all of it. And that is very real, and that is being taught, and that is being promoted, how many politicians, many universities, and many in the main stream media.


I am on the executive committee for diversity and inclusion, newly formed in the organization I work for and for good reason.  These things are open we discussed virtually all of the time and we are reading this material virtually all of the time.  Not only do we not run from the conversation we seek it. But that doesn’t mean we all agree on solutions.

for example you may or may not agree with the following new proclamation:

A person can’t be “non-racist“.  If you are white and are not an anti-racist activist, then by definition you are a racist.  That is one of the new theories and teachings. 

wow I don’t hold it against somebody who has that opinion I certainly disagree with that and would find it totally inappropriate for that to be taught in a school, but it actually is being taught and that is a fact.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 14, 2021, 09:23:15 PM

Why do you only concern yourself with the most radical, tiny tip of far-leftist garbage you can find news about?  
Me being a teacher is sort of pertinent, don't you think - as I look through the actual standards we're tasked with teaching on an annual basis.  
You have no firsthand knowledge of this, just responding with outrage at things you read about and are told to be outraged about.
.
You're obsessed with fringe bullshit.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 14, 2021, 09:29:08 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 14, 2021, 09:05:24 PM

If you weren’t such an idiot and could actually read you would see that the ratings listed there do not confirm anything that I’m saying but give a very balanced point of view.

But what the books and readings do confirm is how obviously incorrect you are when you claim to know what is not being taught when in fact it actually is.

so many things and so many bogeyman living rent free in that empty head of yours. Please stop discussing things of which you clearly know absolutely nothing about and please please stop using the fact that you’re a teacher as an excuse for your stupidity when you’re trying to pretend you are knowledgeable

You are wasting your time on him

There is none so blind as those who will not see

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 14, 2021, 09:35:49 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 14, 2021, 08:16:18 AM

There was, perhaps, a time when someone might hang the Confederate Battle Flag as a sign of regional pride, or something.  Today, I think anyone who does that outside a museum is trying to send a message, a clear one.  I cannot think of another reason to display it today.  imagery counts.  If I see one, I am justified in making an assessment about the individual displaying it.

There used to be a barn just off I-71 north of Cincy that had it on its roof.

I don't see them around here for some reason.  I see a LOT of "gay flags" though.

Last time I was in Myrtle Beach there was a coffee shop that displayed a rainbow Confederate flag. 



(https://oneequalworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/LGBT-Confederate-Flag.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 14, 2021, 09:37:58 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 14, 2021, 09:23:15 PM

Why do you only concern yourself with the most radical, tiny tip of far-leftist garbage you can find news about? 
Me being a teacher is sort of pertinent, don't you think - as I look through the actual standards we're tasked with teaching on an annual basis. 
You have no firsthand knowledge of this, just responding with outrage at things you read about and are told to be outraged about.
.
You're obsessed with fringe bullshit. 

When it is being taught at certain school districts, a growing list of universities and corporate training, and especially being debated by those who are supposed to represent all of us-it is not fringe. 

Have you read the curriculum being trained at Coca-cola?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 14, 2021, 09:39:36 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 14, 2021, 09:29:08 PM

You are wasting your time on him

There is none so blind as those who will not see

I mean, isn't that sort of the point here?

Like, we don't bring up a hot button topic such as this unless we want to get into a spicy argument with someone we think is irrational. Whether it's you or him bringing up something like this, the final point is to waste time getting heated about it.

If everyone just didn't waste time replying to the most fiery of political/culture war takes from people whose opinions they loathe, we'd just be talking either football or the topics that we can have more nuanced and productive back and forths about. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 14, 2021, 09:40:13 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on June 14, 2021, 09:35:49 PM

Last time I was in Myrtle Beach there was a coffee shop that displayed a rainbow Confederate flag.



(https://oneequalworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/LGBT-Confederate-Flag.jpg)

Oh that's weird. 

Also, the Ohio-Myrtle Beach connection is for some reason always funny to me. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 14, 2021, 09:47:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 14, 2021, 06:52:27 PM

The Nazis, and Hitler, started WW Two, most of it anyway, leading to the deaths of how many, 40 million? 80?  We don't even know.  And how much massive destruction?

The 6 million is horrific of course and hard to imagine, civilians and defenseless (for the most part). 

• World War II was the deadliest military conflict in history in terms of total dead, with some 75 million people casualties including military and civilians, or around 3% of the world’s population at the time.
• Many civilians died because of deliberate genocide, massacres, mass-bombings, disease, and starvation.
• The Soviet Union lost around 27 million people during the war, including 8.7 million military and 19 million civilians. This represents the most military deaths of any nation by a large margin.
• Germany sustained 5.3 million military losses, mostly on the Eastern Front and during the final battles in Germany.
• Of the total number of deaths in World War II, approximately 85 percent were on the Allied side and 15 percent were on the Axis side, with many of these deaths caused by war crimes committed by German and Japanese forces in occupied territories.
• Nazi Germany, as part of a deliberate program of extermination, systematically killed over 11 million people including 6 million Jews.
• In addition to Nazi concentration camps, the Soviet gulags (labor camps) led to the deaths of 3.6 million civilians.

We spent a night in Orlean, pretty nice city, interesting, most of it was bombed out, and they tried to rebuilt is something like how it was.  We did the bombing of course.  Probably the best B&B I've ever stayed at there.

Funny how no one ever mentions the six million Chinese that were killed by Japan during WWII. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 14, 2021, 10:00:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 14, 2021, 06:52:27 PM

The Nazis, and Hitler, started WW Two, most of it anyway, leading to the deaths of how many, 40 million? 80?  We don't even know.  And how much massive destruction?

The 6 million is horrific of course and hard to imagine, civilians and defenseless (for the most part). 

• World War II was the deadliest military conflict in history in terms of total dead, with some 75 million people casualties including military and civilians, or around 3% of the world’s population at the time.
• Many civilians died because of deliberate genocide, massacres, mass-bombings, disease, and starvation.
• The Soviet Union lost around 27 million people during the war, including 8.7 million military and 19 million civilians. This represents the most military deaths of any nation by a large margin.
• Germany sustained 5.3 million military losses, mostly on the Eastern Front and during the final battles in Germany.
• Of the total number of deaths in World War II, approximately 85 percent were on the Allied side and 15 percent were on the Axis side, with many of these deaths caused by war crimes committed by German and Japanese forces in occupied territories.
• Nazi Germany, as part of a deliberate program of extermination, systematically killed over 11 million people including 6 million Jews.
• In addition to Nazi concentration camps, the Soviet gulags (labor camps) led to the deaths of 3.6 million civilians.

We spent a night in Orlean, pretty nice city, interesting, most of it was bombed out, and they tried to rebuilt is something like how it was.  We did the bombing of course.  Probably the best B&B I've ever stayed at there.

Also worth remembering, the Holocaust was not purely aimed at Jews. It was also aimed at gypsies, socialists, unionists, homosexuals, the disabled, plus Soviets, Poles and probably another group. 

I think the total was like 17 million.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 14, 2021, 11:00:08 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on June 14, 2021, 09:47:25 PM

Funny how no one ever mentions the six million Chinese that were killed by Japan during WWII.

Republican senators forbid it be taught.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 14, 2021, 11:32:17 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 14, 2021, 09:29:08 PM

You are wasting your time on him

There is none so blind as those who will not see

Very precisely likewise.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 15, 2021, 12:17:55 AM

If y'all don't shut the eff up about culture war BS I'm going to start posting pictures in the "is this a bug bite or shingles" sweepstakes.

And no you don't get forewarning on what body part I'm photographing...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 15, 2021, 12:28:30 AM

I'm definitely getting that flag and sending one to longhorn and the other to HB.  :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 15, 2021, 01:05:27 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 15, 2021, 12:17:55 AM

If y'all don't shut the eff up about culture war BS I'm going to start posting pictures in the "is this a bug bite or shingles" sweepstakes.

And no you don't get forewarning on what body part I'm photographing...

You mean all those other pix weren't Briskett,Pork Butt,Skirt Steak and such? Damn the things they can do with Photo shop

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 15, 2021, 01:35:44 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a45z_HG3WU

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 15, 2021, 06:35:48 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 14, 2021, 11:00:08 PM

Republican senators forbid it be taught.

Fake.  Do your homework 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 15, 2021, 06:38:29 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 15, 2021, 12:28:30 AM

I'm definitely getting that flag and sending one to longhorn and the other to HB.  :57:

(https://i.imgur.com/ksdRY2D.jpg)The only flag I have ever flown or owned.  You know Fro- the one that repulses you.  Like garlic to a vampire.  😂
You really struggle with anyone that throws facts at you, huh?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 15, 2021, 07:56:24 AM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on June 14, 2021, 10:19:48 AM

I see all manner of birds of prey nowadays I never saw when I was a kid.  Theyre seemingly everywhere.  Earlier this morning while sticking down the magic beans of consciousness (coffee)  I watched an osprey being chased by two brave Blue Jay's... I see hawks all the time of several varieties, owls, and even a falcon... its a huge thing the size of a red tailed hawk but it's black and white. I only know it's a falcon because someone told me- I would have guessed it's a marked cruiser in the hawk genre. 

Yesterday I was driving into town and saw a hawk mixing it up with a bald eagle while they were both in flight. At one point the hawk dove towards the eagle and just as it got close, the eagle flipped upside down, and tried to grab the hawk with its talons but missed. Then the eagle flipped back over and continued flying while the hawk retreated in a different direction. It all happened in about 20 secs, but it was pretty cool to watch. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2021, 08:10:02 AM

We had a hawk family every year behind our house in Cincy, and we've had one here every year as well over in the park.  A hawk would post up in a dead tree that I could see and sit for long periods.  They took that tree down however, it was probably 100 years old and 80-90 feet up.  I took this with my phone through my telescope.

(https://i.imgur.com/SSwiC8T.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2021, 08:11:21 AM

The botanical garden has this rather interesting display of "streamers":

(https://i.imgur.com/ap6PkSB.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2021, 08:12:24 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/3wiGho2.jpg)

This place is a jewel IMHO, we love going on weekdays, and in winter when it's nice weather.  Weekends the place is too crowded, no one goes there any more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 15, 2021, 08:38:25 AM

be nice w/o the streamers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2021, 09:02:15 AM

It is nice, the streamers are temporary, a change to atttract visitors, they do this often, have a Festival of Lights in December that is well attended.

The woods once were riding trails circa 1900 so the trees date from that era and were preserved by the Piedmont Driving Club (Driving means driving a surrey or carriage).  That part of the gardens is very relaxing if it's not too crowded.

They have a large pedestrian bridge elevated passing through the trees.  This is one of the popular features called mosaiculture.

(https://i.imgur.com/QrZKqaV.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 15, 2021, 09:09:44 AM

similar to spending time at the golf course

w/o the frustration and swearing and beverage carts, of course

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2021, 09:15:52 AM

Any spot of green in a city is very welcome, and perhaps the primary reason we moved here.  The park used to include a 9 hole course.  They took it out years back or so.  It's nicer now I think.  When I lived here 1970ish, the place was full of druggies and hippies and homeless folks, it wasn't safe.

n 1979, the golf course was closed, freeing up 70 acres of green space on what is now Oak Hill and the Meadow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 15, 2021, 09:17:53 AM

I'm usually against closing golf courses, but in this case it seems to have been a good move

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on June 15, 2021, 09:21:40 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 15, 2021, 09:15:52 AM

The park used to include a 9 hole course.  They took it out years back or so.  It's nicer now I think.  When I lived here 1970ish, the place was full of druggies and hippies and homeless folks, it wasn't safe.

Golf is the sport druggies, hippies and homeless.  We need to take back our courses!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2021, 09:28:55 AM

I think that area gets much more use now by many more people.

A lot of picnicking, jogging, walking, etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 15, 2021, 09:34:35 AM

I own and fly lots of flags.




(https://i.imgur.com/Lkm2mIv.jpg)




(https://i.imgur.com/HKbzPWd.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/86kHqfq.jpg)


(https://i.imgur.com/s3TQeIn.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 15, 2021, 09:39:19 AM

speaking of hippies

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 15, 2021, 09:49:05 AM

My hair did get pretty long during the heart of the pandemic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 15, 2021, 12:30:43 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 15, 2021, 09:09:44 AM

similar to spending time at the golf course

w/o the frustration and swearing and beverage carts, of course

 Can’t be swearing at the beverage cart, Fearless

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 15, 2021, 12:36:00 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 15, 2021, 01:05:27 AM

You mean all those other pix weren't Briskett,Pork Butt,Skirt Steak and such? Damn the things they can do with Photo shop

I've been eating very well lately, thank you for asking.

Friday: Cacio e Pepe
Saturday: Ribeye with caprese salad and french bread, paired with Tobin James Fat Boy Zinfandel
Sunday: Shrimp Fra Diavolo, recipe courtesy of the queen.
Monday: Ahi tuna poke bowl, poke served over rice with cucumber/carrot, avocado, and sriracha mayo

Brisket isn't until this Sunday...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 15, 2021, 12:36:51 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 15, 2021, 12:30:43 PM

Can’t be swearing at the beverage cart, Fearless

I'm usually more along the lines of "where is the effing beer cart?!", but I'm very gracious and thankful when it finally arrives... 

Never bite the hand that brings you beer, ya know...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 15, 2021, 12:38:41 PM

Those all look amazing....but man that Diavlo.  

🥰

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 15, 2021, 01:09:25 PM

I swear at the ball, the clubs, the water hazard, the trees, the insects, my playing partners, the slow group in front of me, and myself......... but NEVER at the girl driving the bev cart!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 15, 2021, 01:37:09 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 15, 2021, 12:38:41 PM

Those all look amazing....but man that Diavlo. 

🥰

Pretty easy cook...

https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/shrimp-and-linguine-fra-diavolo-3645431

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 15, 2021, 01:40:56 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 15, 2021, 01:37:09 PM

Pretty easy cook...

https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/shrimp-and-linguine-fra-diavolo-3645431

Thank you. Looks straightforward.  I may try it tonight or tomorrow. Your presentation is quite appealing LOL

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 15, 2021, 02:00:17 PM

I love Shrimp Fra Diavolo.  I've always used Giada's recipe, which uses canned tomatoes rather than tomato sauce and tomato paste.  

We grow Italian sweet basil, oregano, and flat leaf parsley in our herb garden, pretty much so I can make this whenever I want. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 15, 2021, 02:38:45 PM

Quote from: utee94 on June 15, 2021, 02:00:17 PM

I love Shrimp Fra Diavolo.  I've always used Giada's recipe, which uses canned tomatoes rather than tomato sauce and tomato paste. 

We grow Italian sweet basil, oregano, and flat leaf parsley in our herb garden, pretty much so I can make this whenever I want. :)

I notice they are similar- but Giada’s calls for dry white wine. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 15, 2021, 02:51:48 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 15, 2021, 02:38:45 PM

I notice they are similar- but Giada’s calls for dry white wine. 

Yup.  And it's only like a cup, so you get to drink the rest!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 15, 2021, 03:23:24 PM

No pride for Germany on that goal

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2021, 03:35:26 PM

A dry wine, technically, is a wine with little or no sugar left.  That would be as opposed to a desert type wine.

A wine can be very fruity and still be very dry.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 15, 2021, 03:51:23 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 15, 2021, 12:36:00 PM

Brisket isn't until this Sunday...

The Horror

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 15, 2021, 04:02:16 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 15, 2021, 09:17:53 AM

I'm usually against closing golf courses, but in this case 

(https://media.tenor.com/images/e4ae71099eeeccdaaf1495af637ac4c7/tenor.gif)   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 15, 2021, 04:05:31 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 15, 2021, 12:36:51 PM

Never bite the hand that brings you beer, ya know...

(https://i.imgur.com/vhIjqmj.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 15, 2021, 04:09:37 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 15, 2021, 01:09:25 PM

I swear at the ball, the clubs, the water hazard, the trees, the insects, my playing partners, the slow group in front of me, and myself......... but NEVER 

https://youtu.be/Pe5eL8LQdY0?t=109

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 15, 2021, 05:58:22 PM

I don't ask the Lord for help with my golf game.  I don't blame the Lord for my poor luck either.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 15, 2021, 06:16:33 PM

Didn't do that guy much good,besides I save that for the Race Track

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 15, 2021, 06:20:10 PM

you never ask a Navy man if he'll have another drink..........

https://youtu.be/DEKyx_eTxBQ

There is no God

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on June 15, 2021, 08:47:57 PM

finally getting around to engraving.... 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63xZGABe8Bo

get yer raffle on y'all!!! get that bad mambo-jambo teak chopping block (one like it- the other one is gone.... i can inlay whatever you want!)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 15, 2021, 09:01:37 PM

wow, impressive

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 15, 2021, 09:37:58 PM

How you gonna fit OrangeAfroMan on 4 of those things?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on June 15, 2021, 09:52:07 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 15, 2021, 09:37:58 PM

How you gonna fit OrangeAfroMan on 4 of those things?

Barber pole... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 16, 2021, 12:00:26 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 15, 2021, 03:35:26 PM

A wine can be very fruity and still be very dry.

Just like HB.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 16, 2021, 05:11:46 AM

🤣.  Well played 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 16, 2021, 07:47:19 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 15, 2021, 09:37:58 PM

How you gonna fit OrangeAfroMan on 4 of those things?

He's making a paddle for that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2021, 08:35:22 AM

The wife is pushing me to start up wine classes here in the building.  I might, but we're headed out for a few days and she might forget about it.  I am amazingly lazy in my dotage.

Watching the Braves there days is depressing.

How often has your team in CFB been very good but lost inexplicably some pivotal game?  OSU losing to MSU 1998?

I bet it happens a fair bit.  I know it has with UGA, often to Auburn late.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 16, 2021, 09:01:40 AM

Obviously the Huskers haven't been very good lately.

the only instance recently at all would have been the Big Ten Championship meltdown vs the Badgers that I attended

There have been a few during Osborne's tenure, Mizzou in 78 after Tom finally upset the Sooners.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 16, 2021, 12:51:01 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-0/p526x296/190376453_4306935562684845_3841951411459751299_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=D1zCOAPe8K8AX9bPxbU&_nc_oc=AQm_xZHUDSxpBe8ukofswd4WW9MvbwgJJcrPnX7yX97lG5QawIBzNHxQ_Pzi3nc4eK8&tn=Gi6_DOsUSD8loa3b&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=1105ca0226e68f637217c19b2f71e474&oe=60CE4EF1)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 16, 2021, 01:11:37 PM

Just watched that movie over the weekend. My wife had somehow never seen it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2021, 02:10:20 PM

we were slated for a three day vacation, now.  The wife came back from pilates and said she hit something in the road and the low tire pressure thingee was lit.  I got down and see the front tire is basically perfed on the sidewall, not a chance of holding pressure.

Our motel reservations were nonrefundable, I could not find a rental car in the entire city.  So, I go down to change the tire.  I have not changed a tire in 45 years.  The car was in the garage downstairs in a poorly lit area.  I'm getting sweaty and greasy and trying to understand the manual's directions.  I finally figure it out, the wheel had little plus covering the lug nuts, I get the lugs off, the wheel off, the spare space saver out, and I can't get the holes lined up right.  Fuss fuss fuss.

I asked the wife to call our lodging place and sweet talk them into a delay, which they did, two weeks out.  I finally relent and call AAA to get the spare on.  Dude shows up in  about 30 minutes, very helpful, shows me what I was doing wrong, mounts the space saver.  I'll get a new tire on tomorrow morning, with any luck.

At least now I know how to change a tire in this new fangled car thingee.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 16, 2021, 02:46:55 PM

hopefully, knowledge you'll never use

must be a foreign car thing, I've not had to check the manual to change a tire in all the vehicles the ex, my daughters, or I have driven.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 16, 2021, 02:47:57 PM

for future, there's probably a dozen decent youtube videos that you can check

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 16, 2021, 04:02:56 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 16, 2021, 02:10:20 PM

At least now I know how to change a tire in this new fangled car thingee.

NO EXCUSES!!! As much as you caterwaul on about cars and can't even fix a flat

https://youtu.be/xCc-RWIp7XU



Now I better check my manual with my luck Cindy might hit something and I'll be the one scratching my head

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 16, 2021, 04:39:30 PM

FORE!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 16, 2021, 05:19:33 PM

How does a person go 45 years between hasty tire changes?!?  It seems like I do 3-4 every other year.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 16, 2021, 06:56:44 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 16, 2021, 05:19:33 PM

How does a person go 45 years between hasty tire changes?!?  It seems like I do 3-4 every other year. 

What are riding a Conestoga Wagon?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 16, 2021, 06:57:49 PM

Becoming a Vegetarian is a big missed steak

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 16, 2021, 07:04:31 PM

What I If told you

you read the top line wrong

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2021, 07:16:12 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 16, 2021, 05:19:33 PM

How does a person go 45 years between hasty tire changes?!?  It seems like I do 3-4 every other year. 

The Caddy had multiple tire issues, in part because it had 35 profile run flats.  Just about any pothole would damage a tire, I sold it mainly because of that.  If you have run flats, you have no spare, so no tire to change.  I hit a pothole in a freeway in Cincy and it blew the tire and the rim.  Those times were pricey.  I think it was $1400 for both.

No spare in that car.  Low profile tires are not good at all, they don't help handling and they are heavier.

Before that, I can't recall having a flat, I probably did and called AAA.  The kids had flats fairly often in C-bus.

I dunno what the wife hit, but it tore up that tire.  The current car is a GTI, with a manual, which I prefer.  I do miss memory seats though.

I dimly recall jacking up an old car with a regular jack in the bumper, crank crank.  This one is a scissors jack, it worked fine.  I couldn't manage to get the space saver on the wheel correctly apparently because I needed to jack it higher.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 16, 2021, 07:29:13 PM

Bigfoot saw me and no one believes him


I prefer my kale with a silent "K"


Spilling a beer is the adult equivalent of losing a balloon


Somewhere in the sky Sean Connery and Alex Trebek are playing Celebrity Jeopardy


The entire USA could get tested in a day if Chik-fil-a was running the drive thru


Have you noticed "THE" & "IRS" spells THEIRS


to me essential oils are what drips out of tacos


Drink wine - it isn't good to keep things bottled up


If pigs could fly imagine how good their wings would taste


did it bother anyone else that the guy from the operation game was clearly awake


cremation is my last hope for a smoking hot body


My wife said I never listen to her or something like that


If two wrongs don't make a right, try three


87% of gym members don't know it's closed


Any salad can be a Caesar's Salad if you stab it enough


The only clowns I'm afraid of are the ones running for office

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 16, 2021, 08:31:08 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 16, 2021, 06:56:44 PM

What are riding a Conestoga Wagon?

Phoenix ghettos are as harsh on tires as the dirt roads of the reservation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 16, 2021, 08:34:01 PM

Phoenix Ghettos......Puhleeze

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 16, 2021, 10:45:48 PM

You're right, it's 'barrio.'

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 16, 2021, 10:50:10 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 16, 2021, 01:11:37 PM

Just watched that movie over the weekend. My wife had somehow never seen it.

Had she seen the others?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 16, 2021, 11:14:14 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on June 16, 2021, 10:50:10 PM

Had she seen the others?

Only Christmas Vacation, I think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 17, 2021, 08:27:44 AM

headed north to Minnesooota this morning for a golf weekend

18 this afternoon, 36 friday and saturday, free lodging, free food, free alcohol, live music, free shuttle between the lodge and the course

all I gotta do is get there and tip the bev cart ladies

been attending this event since 2001, back then it was a sprint for a young man, this year it will be a marathon for an old man

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 17, 2021, 08:47:39 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 17, 2021, 08:27:44 AM

headed north to Minnesooota this morning for a golf weekend

18 this afternoon, 36 friday and saturday, free lodging, free food, free alcohol, live music, free shuttle between the lodge and the course

all I gotta do is get there and tip the bev cart ladies

been attending this event since 2001, back then it was a sprint for a young man, this year it will be a marathon for an old man

RIP FF.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 17, 2021, 09:18:39 AM

FORE!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 17, 2021, 09:46:19 AM

A guy is driving around the back woods of Montana and he sees a sign in front of a broken down shanty-style house: 'Talking Dog For Sale'.

 
He rings the bell, the owner appears and tells him the dog is in the backyard.
The guy goes into the backyard and sees a nice looking Labrador retriever sitting there.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?trnonsuspmrk=1&q=tbn:ANd9GcS9vyN5aVqlNO5J9-BJGke4KQ6WFNSI8ULd1i87Agc4aOQZSHhxLQ)
'You talk?' he asks.
'Yep,' the Lab replies.

After the guy recovers from the shock of hearing a dog talk, he says 'So, what's your story?'
The Lab looks up and says, 'Well, I discovered that I could talk when I was pretty young.
I wanted to help the government, so.....I told the CIA.
In no time at all they had me jetting from country to country, sitting in rooms with spies and world leaders, because no one figured a dog would be eavesdropping. I was one of their most valuable spies for eight years running.

But the jetting around really tired me out, and I knew I wasn't getting any younger so I decided to settle down.
I signed up for a job at the airport to do some undercover security, wandering near suspicious characters and listening in.
I uncovered some incredible dealings and was awarded a batch of medals I got married, had a mess of puppies, and now I'm just retired.'
(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblob%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Foutlook.live.com%2F7f8abfae-8fc0-4a50-be56-9a1461a27aef&hash=e1144103ef4b4aff269f71a00c8f04d2)
The guy is amazed. He goes back in and asks the owner what he wants for the dog.
'Ten dollars,' the guy says.
'Ten dollars? This dog is amazing! Why on earth are you selling him so cheap?’
'Because he's a Bullshitter.  He's never been out of the yard!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2021, 10:08:49 AM

I'm back with the new tire on the car, some $430 poorer.  I figured it needed an alignment, which was the case.

At least the rim is OK.

And the car is OK.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on June 17, 2021, 10:29:06 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 17, 2021, 08:27:44 AM

headed north to Minnesooota this morning for a golf weekend

18 this afternoon, 36 friday and saturday, 

Holes or temps?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 17, 2021, 10:57:41 AM

Quote from: ELA on June 17, 2021, 10:29:06 AM

Holes or temps?

Exactly what I was thinking! :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 17, 2021, 11:09:34 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 17, 2021, 08:27:44 AM

headed north to Minnesooota this morning for a golf weekend

18 this afternoon, 36 friday and saturday, 

Quote from: ELA on June 17, 2021, 10:29:06 AM

Holes or temps?

Quote from: utee94 on June 17, 2021, 10:57:41 AM

Exactly what I was thinking! :)

I thought he was talking about beers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 17, 2021, 11:33:17 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 17, 2021, 10:08:49 AM

I'm back with the new tire on the car, some $430 poorer.  I figured it needed an alignment, which was the case.

At least the rim is OK.

And the car is OK.

a new tire and an alignment cost you $430

man they are really proud of their alignments

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 17, 2021, 12:41:21 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 16, 2021, 05:19:33 PM

How does a person go 45 years between hasty tire changes?!?  It seems like I do 3-4 every other year. 

This gives me flashbacks to a 5:45 am phone call from an ex (then not an ex). After dealing with her 5:15 am alarm, The phone started buzzing. She made it a bit more than a mile before a tire blew. 

So I drove out in the cold (not that cold) to assess and realize OnStar was 10 minutes out, so I was just there for moral support.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on June 17, 2021, 12:48:36 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 17, 2021, 11:33:17 AM

a new tire and an alignment cost you $430

man they are really proud of their alignments

Guy down street from me who runs garage dropped $65k on an alignment machine few years ago.... freakin GPS and laser... I think he charges $125 for four wheel alignment, which cracks me up- four wheels-.... uhhuh...

I fabricated a device for my super duty, solid front axle truck, which bolted across inner face of wheel... made it level using simple bubble level, and bolted a laser pointer to it... waited until dark and parked in front of the barn.  Turned on lasers and went to measuring....

I took four 16" vinyl tiles, two per front wheel... stacked one atop other with wad of grease between them.. made wheels turn easier using the tie rods. 

I did this after installing a four link suspension on the front of the truck.... knowing I wouldn't be able to get to the shop for a proper alignment for a few days. 

Got to the shop and cut one of my buddies technicians loose on it while me and my buddy chatted and the guy come got me... he said "I cab try, but I'm not going to get it any better than it is and don't want to charge you for just trying"... I was standing there looking at the monitor and.... it was dead on center of the parameters ... they were amazed when I told them how I did it.  I didn't design this method, it's been around forever- this tale is more akin to a kid not knowing how to use a rotary phone than anything else...

Now with four wheel independent suspension and cv joints/half axles, this is more difficult... with a solid front axle, though, it's a waste of money to get the fancy alignment..  that four link suspension allowed me to dial 6* castor... stock is 4 to 4.5... that big ass truck handled like a sports car!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 17, 2021, 12:57:48 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 17, 2021, 12:41:21 PM

This gives me flashbacks to a 5:45 am phone call from an ex (then not an ex). After dealing with her 5:15 am alarm, The phone started buzzing. She made it a bit more than a mile before a tire blew.

So I drove out in the cold (not that cold) to assess and realize OnStar was 10 minutes out, so I was just there for moral support.

One of my best friends is a gorgeous young lady who calls me up one day, with a tire issue.
I drive halfway across town and pull in beside her at the gas station.  And then I laugh.
I point to the sign NEXT DOOR:  Tire Shop
.
I said she is gorgeous, not with-it.  I'm glad she called me, though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2021, 01:11:00 PM

I got a "lifetime" alignment, $200.  The tire was a shade over $200 with disposal fees and taxes.  There was a "low profile tire mounting charge" of $0.

And I donated $5 to Boys Club.  Or the manager.

When the car was almost new, it had a tiny nail too near the sidewall, and I had to replace the tire then as well.  

The wife said she hit a new pothole and tried to slew at the last second and probably that nailed it.

They were supposed to have redone that road last fall.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 17, 2021, 01:25:02 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 17, 2021, 01:11:00 PM

I got a "lifetime" alignment, $200.  The tire was a shade over $200 with disposal fees and taxes.  There was a "low profile tire mounting charge" of $0.

And I donated $5 to Boys Club.  Or the manager.

When the car was almost new, it had a tiny nail too near the sidewall, and I had to replace the tire then as well. 

The wife said she hit a new pothole and tried to slew at the last second and probably that nailed it.

They were supposed to have redone that road last fall.

$200 plus for a tire seems high 

most Ive ever paid was $120 per tire with a lifetime warranty

now I admit its been 2 years since then so maybe the prices have gone up more then I knew

love Discount Tire

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2021, 01:49:57 PM

Tire Size 225/40R18 | Tire Rack (https://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?gclid=Cj0KCQjw5auGBhDEARIsAFyNm9HB2jIJwLLscmP9ci3ibvPb82ciO5RVsAX1pWkwTr7t19JSBqLONcQaAosfEALw_wcB&width=225%2F&ratio=40&diameter=18&manufacturer=Michelin&ef_id=Cj0KCQjw5auGBhDEARIsAFyNm9HB2jIJwLLscmP9ci3ibvPb82ciO5RVsAX1pWkwTr7t19JSBqLONcQaAosfEALw_wcB:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!3756!3!386488835963!b!!g!!&gclsrc=aw.ds&&affiliate=HM5)

The tire wasn't on sale of course, and it's a moderately high performance tire.  They are $380 at Discount Tire here.  Ouch.

Bridgestone Potenza RE050A | Discount Tire (https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/bridgestone-potenza-re050a)

I'm not a fan of "cheap" tires.  Braking distance is a key metric for me.  At least I know where the spare is now, and the jack.  I need to make sure they repacked everything properly, I think they did.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 17, 2021, 04:52:21 PM

Tire man from way back.  

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=christmas+story+fuuudge&t=iphone&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D11q4q3S57jE

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 17, 2021, 05:11:29 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 17, 2021, 04:52:21 PM

Tire man from way back. 

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=christmas+story+fuuudge&t=iphone&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D11q4q3S57jE

I say oh fudge all the time

except its not fudge

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 17, 2021, 08:08:03 PM

Quote from: ELA on June 17, 2021, 10:29:06 AM

Holes or temps?

Quote from: utee94 on June 17, 2021, 10:57:41 AM

Exactly what I was thinking! :)

Not up on Golf Jargon ?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 17, 2021, 09:32:56 PM

Golf Jargon?  Is that a new band playing at Coachella?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 18, 2021, 11:04:39 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/6i65VGx.jpg)

Some dude I don't know gets these photos using drones, I find that fascinating.  Construction crews use drones now often.

There is an effort to cap that freeway with a park, the concept is great, but too  expensive.  I'd settle for something smaller.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 18, 2021, 11:54:45 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 18, 2021, 11:04:39 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/6i65VGx.jpg)

Some dude I don't know gets these photos using drones, I find that fascinating.  Construction crews use drones now often.

There is an effort to cap that freeway with a park, the concept is great, but too  expensive.  I'd settle for something smaller.

A guy I used to work with ended up here: https://www.gnarbox.com/

They do some pretty awesome things with drones. They're pretty advanced.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 18, 2021, 12:02:37 PM

Even our cameras in our phones amaze me in terms of quality.  My neighbor just spent over $30 K on new camera gear and he says he often uses his phone in a tight space.

He had high end Nikon gear and shifted to Sony mirrorless, which meant all new lenses.

Sony Alpha 1 Mirrorless Digital Camera (Alpha 1 a1 Camera Body) ILCE-1/B B&H (bhphotovideo.com) (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1619483-REG/sony_ilce_1_b_alpha_a1_mirrorless_digital.html/?ap=y&smp=y&gclid=CjwKCAjwiLGGBhAqEiwAgq3q_scagIHitydWOQGVldE1gzd1VGyeEZEibFq-Rm_iMnBZO9x4fN6aWhoCZc0QAvD_BwE)

$6,500 for the body, ouch.  He was in Zambia with it recently, shot over 10,000 photos.  Some of his stuff is NatGeo quality IMHO.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 18, 2021, 02:23:12 PM

In his career Maddux faced 20,421 batters. Of those, only 310 ever saw a 3-0 count, and 177 of those were intentional.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 18, 2021, 03:09:39 PM

Just accepted a new position within my company. 

For the first time in my career I now have a title that starts with "Director".

Today was a good day :93:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on June 18, 2021, 03:16:32 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on June 17, 2021, 12:48:36 PM

Guy down street from me who runs garage dropped $65k on an alignment machine few years ago.... freakin GPS and laser... I think he charges $125 for four wheel alignment, which cracks me up- four wheels-.... uhhuh...

I fabricated a device for my super duty, solid front axle truck, which bolted across inner face of wheel... made it level using simple bubble level, and bolted a laser pointer to it... waited until dark and parked in front of the barn.  Turned on lasers and went to measuring....

I took four 16" vinyl tiles, two per front wheel... stacked one atop other with wad of grease between them.. made wheels turn easier using the tie rods. 

I did this after installing a four link suspension on the front of the truck.... knowing I wouldn't be able to get to the shop for a proper alignment for a few days. 

Got to the shop and cut one of my buddies technicians loose on it while me and my buddy chatted and the guy come got me... he said "I cab try, but I'm not going to get it any better than it is and don't want to charge you for just trying"... I was standing there looking at the monitor and.... it was dead on center of the parameters ... they were amazed when I told them how I did it.  I didn't design this method, it's been around forever- this tale is more akin to a kid not knowing how to use a rotary phone than anything else...

Now with four wheel independent suspension and cv joints/half axles, this is more difficult... with a solid front axle, though, it's a waste of money to get the fancy alignment..  that four link suspension allowed me to dial 6* castor... stock is 4 to 4.5... that big ass truck handled like a sports car!

I think I would rather pay the $125

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on June 18, 2021, 03:26:33 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 17, 2021, 01:49:57 PM

Tire Size 225/40R18 | Tire Rack (https://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?gclid=Cj0KCQjw5auGBhDEARIsAFyNm9HB2jIJwLLscmP9ci3ibvPb82ciO5RVsAX1pWkwTr7t19JSBqLONcQaAosfEALw_wcB&width=225%2F&ratio=40&diameter=18&manufacturer=Michelin&ef_id=Cj0KCQjw5auGBhDEARIsAFyNm9HB2jIJwLLscmP9ci3ibvPb82ciO5RVsAX1pWkwTr7t19JSBqLONcQaAosfEALw_wcB:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!3756!3!386488835963!b!!g!!&gclsrc=aw.ds&&affiliate=HM5)

The tire wasn't on sale of course, and it's a moderately high performance tire.  They are $380 at Discount Tire here.  Ouch.

Bridgestone Potenza RE050A | Discount Tire (https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/bridgestone-potenza-re050a)

I'm not a fan of "cheap" tires.  Braking distance is a key metric for me.  At least I know where the spare is now, and the jack.  I need to make sure they repacked everything properly, I think they did.

I bought the maintenance contract with my lease that includes the tires.  Wife ran into a crib with the car and blew a tire.  Towed by Car insurance to dealer. Was told the large tire (Honda Passport) was almost $300. all done for free (well did pay for the contract and the car insurance)  Worth the cost to have it just done and not have to worry about a thing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 18, 2021, 03:40:00 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on June 18, 2021, 03:26:33 PM

I bought the maintenance contract with my lease that includes the tires.  Wife ran into a crib with the car and blew a tire.  Towed by Car insurance to dealer. Was told the large tire (Honda Passport) was almost $300. all done for free (well did pay for the contract and the car insurance)  Worth the cost to have it just done and not have to worry about a thing.

Was the baby ok? How about the wall that she must have gone through to get to a crib? :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 18, 2021, 03:42:26 PM

Had my fitting for new golf clubs yesterday. 

Ordered a set of the single length clubs with a 4 hybrid and 5 iron through gap wedge. 

Excited. The fitting was done with a 5i, and the advantage of playing a 5i at what is my current 9i length meant I was consistently hitting more flush 5 irons than I probably have in my life. Still had the distance, too. 

I'm definitely feeling good about the single-length concept.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 18, 2021, 03:56:10 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 18, 2021, 03:42:26 PM

Had my fitting for new golf clubs yesterday.

Ordered a set of the single length clubs with a 4 hybrid and 5 iron through gap wedge.

Excited. The fitting was done with a 5i, and the advantage of playing a 5i at what is my current 9i length meant I was consistently hitting more flush 5 irons than I probably have in my life. Still had the distance, too.

I'm definitely feeling good about the single-length concept.

Congrats on your new job!
that is awesome! 

I have been playing with a set of equal length clubs for a couple years now and I could never go back. I have the Cleveland hybrids which means pitching wedge to four iron and they get more hybridy  the higher up you go. ( so the wedge, 9 iron are pretty normal but when you get to the 4 an 5 Iron they are full hybrid.)

Has helped a lot.  I could always hit the green pretty consistently from 150 in but now I’m hitting it pretty consistently from 190 in.

Also I am 6‘3“ tall so I have opted for the 1 inch longer clubs across the board which also helps.  Off the shelf clubs are made for much shorter heights.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on June 18, 2021, 05:31:27 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on June 18, 2021, 03:16:32 PM

I think I would rather pay the $125

i'm the dude who finds great satisfaction doing things myself.... even when it doesn't make sense.. 

however, today I paid four tire service... on a golf cart. 

i use the thing daily- i can get to just about every store i need to survive on a cart, and because of (obviously) where I'm located.  i bought the thing as it is- i would never do to a freakin' golf cart what the previous owner did to this one- he 'lifted' it and put mag wheels and big ol knobby tires on it as if it is a 4wd mudding truck... whatever.. it was cheap, and my kid and her friends love it.  

i had a flat but couldn't get the tire off the rim to hot patch it.   i had to take it to a place to do so for me... talk about feeling small... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 18, 2021, 09:56:09 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 18, 2021, 03:09:39 PM

Just accepted a new position within my company.

For the first time in my career I now have a title that starts with "Director".

Today was a good day :93:

Oh,Mister Big Bucks,guess you'll be getting a subscription to the Premium Lounge from now on.Stop by and see the rabble - when you can squeeze it in

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 18, 2021, 10:02:06 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 18, 2021, 02:23:12 PM

In his career Maddux faced 20,421 batters. Of those, only 310 ever saw a 3-0 count, and 177 of those were intentional.

Ya after he got to 3-0

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2021, 08:58:21 AM

Long ago, I'd spend weekends, parts thereof, working on my cars, if the weather was decent, changing oil, plugs, points, condenser, filters, tires, random checks.

Cars back then needed a LOT more work than they do today, and I was poor.

I never had "director" in my title though, I had "manager" for a while, which is odd because I wasn't.  I'm sure I've mentioned how little I did in a day my last few years "working".  There wasn't much for me to do even had I been assiduous about it.  And they replaced me with TWO people.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 19, 2021, 10:58:13 AM

Congrats on the promotion @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) .  Maybe I'll send you my resume'... :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 19, 2021, 11:19:48 AM

Quote from: utee94 on June 19, 2021, 10:58:13 AM

Congrats on the promotion @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) .  Maybe I'll send you my resume'... :)

If you know any storage experts that want to be an FAE, my manager may have a req open for my previous job shortly...

Having someone in Texas (or CO) would be a plus too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on June 19, 2021, 01:09:21 PM

When our company was sold by our parent (a large bank) last year , we all went from traditional bank titles,  Officer, AVP, VP, SVP, EVP to the new company's (privately owned) director type titles.   Very interesting how people view those changes.  You could tell our buyers were having a difficult time trying to title some of us w/o alienating or offending folks.  I tend not to get fussy over such things, more interested in what I'm doing and what's my directive. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2021, 01:21:18 PM

I opined where I worked a lot of people wanted a title so much they would take a pay cut to get it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on June 19, 2021, 01:49:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 19, 2021, 01:21:18 PM

I opined where I worked a lot of people wanted a title so much they would take a pay cut to get it.

Yup. At the Bank there was never a $ incentive or promotional feature to the title.   That's why we all played Oprah 'you're a VP, you're a VP, everybody's a VP.  ' 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2021, 01:53:00 PM

I would fairly often meet folks from smaller companies who had VP of somesuch on their business card, to find out later they had zero or one report total.

Title inflation.

When I first joined the company, a Director supervised a Division of 400-500 people.  When I left, divisions would be 50-100 people.  So, they replicated the position so as to reward folks.  The Director position was reduced to being an Associate Director in effect.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 19, 2021, 05:06:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 19, 2021, 01:53:00 PM

I would fairly often meet folks from smaller companies who had VP of somesuch on their business card, to find out later they had zero or one report total.

Title inflation.

When I first joined the company, a Director supervised a Division of 400-500 people.  When I left, divisions would be 50-100 people.  So, they replicated the position so as to reward folks.  The Director position was reduced to being an Associate Director in effect.

I had on point where I had one report, though I didn't have a title that grand. Basically, I worked my ass off and did a pretty good job, but you couldn't raise up my salary as an individual contributor, so they needed to give me a management role. (And now I have another management role in a new field that is more true management, but with a very small team. I think that happened because I asked for better money and to give it, they needed that role)

I wonder if it's a case of salaries shifting away from non-managers. I joked with someone that I wish I'd gotten into a more specialized field, where I could be a higher paid IC, but life isn't like that. Since we have so many engineers and STEM folks, am I right that you can get by as an IC, or is there always some pressure to move up to management to be more financially stable?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2021, 04:55:18 PM

A Brief History Of Gasoline: Prelude (jalopnik.com) (https://jalopnik.com/a-brief-history-of-gasoline-the-lie-of-leaded-gas-1846790331)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2021, 12:04:35 PM

My HVAC problem was "simple", and finally solved.  There is a plastic tray that collected condensate on the outside of the coils to keep drippage from getting on electronics.  The hole in the tray clogged up, and it wasn't draining.  A sensor would tell the compressor to turn off.  Open the hole, replace the sensor, problem solved.

It's not easy to spot the hole in the tray, the unit is inside a closet, it's a water sourced heat pump.

The sensor, about the size of a dime, cost $170.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on June 21, 2021, 12:19:38 PM

I have a monster of a cnc machine I stumbled across coming in this week.  My abilities/capabilities to make things AND my capacity just exploded.... I made a deal with the devil to bring it together- im still charging for the products they're purchasing, but it will be discounted for them.  It's still not a bad gig by any stretch.... and, it'll keep me busy during lulls.  

Custom carved entry doors.  Custom carved gates... Custom panels.  Custom trim, banisters,  window frames et al.  

Those solid wood and carved entry doors can sell anywhere from $10k to $30k a set.  Custom gates? You'll need to sit down for that one.... 

The kinda flattering thing is- they could have bought the machinery and tools to do it themselves,  but they didn't have the skillset to operate it without a heavy salary requirement. So instead of buying the worker and bringing him to the equipment, they brought the equipment to the worker.  I just accepted two massive jobs outside of the agreement, and the machine won't even deliver until later this week. 

I'm gonna be freakin busy... and that is a dang good thing. I like busy.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 21, 2021, 12:32:32 PM

My apologies to @MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) -- I didn't take pictures of the finished product of the brisket yesterday...

I ended up wrapping in foil at the stall, as I've tried to go "purist" with brisket too many times only to not end up with a product as moist as I'd like, and with bark that is about as hard to chew through as, well, bark. This solved both problems. 

Someday I may try the butcher paper version which I understand is in between, but from now on I think I'm going to be wrapping briskets. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2021, 12:35:03 PM

I would like a smallish block with my son's ribbons and perhaps rank on it, if that is doable.  Maybe 6" x 3" or so.

His unit got a Navy Unit Commendation medal 15 years later.  He was awarded a CAR on his 19th birthday.

(https://i.imgur.com/RunCKIv.png)

The cutting boards were superb.  I'm not sure what my kids did with them, I need to get photos.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on June 21, 2021, 12:45:26 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 21, 2021, 12:35:03 PM

I would like a smallish block with my son's ribbons and perhaps rank on it, if that is doable.  Maybe 6" x 3" or so.

His unit got a Navy Unit Commendation medal 15 years later.  He was awarded a CAR on his 19th birthday.

(https://i.imgur.com/RunCKIv.png)

The cutting boards were superb.  I'm not sure what my kids did with them, I need to get photos.

I can do that and it'll be my pleasure.  Do you by chance have a list of all his awards? I think you'll really like what I have in mind.

I just made this for a member here... this was actually partially done now that I see the pics.  The final product was more subdued and more accent on the details of the seal.

(https://www.drewswoodcraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/uscg-1-scaled.jpg)
(https://www.drewswoodcraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/uscg-2-scaled.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2021, 12:54:45 PM

I'll have to get a photo of his shadow box from my daughter, who has it, somewhere.

Obviously, most of the ribbons are the "I was there" category, and the ND ribbon they get after boot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2021, 02:05:58 PM

Herschel Walker hints again that he will run for Senate in Georgia (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/Herschel-Walker-hints-run-Senate-Georgia-Raphael-Warnock-166795362/?fbclid=IwAR1FpKv_0EqkJG5EauGOXqyYrEBUqP1LUfdPLIQnVuWbRznHi8ZqYbad124)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 21, 2021, 02:07:18 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 21, 2021, 02:05:58 PM

Herschel Walker hints again that he will run for Senate in Georgia (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/Herschel-Walker-hints-run-Senate-Georgia-Raphael-Warnock-166795362/?fbclid=IwAR1FpKv_0EqkJG5EauGOXqyYrEBUqP1LUfdPLIQnVuWbRznHi8ZqYbad124)

Cool.

It's sounding like Matthew McConaughey might make a run for Texas governor.
 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Kris60 on June 21, 2021, 02:57:20 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 17, 2021, 12:57:48 PM

One of my best friends is a gorgeous young lady who calls me up one day, with a tire issue.
I drive halfway across town and pull in beside her at the gas station.  And then I laugh.
I point to the sign NEXT DOOR:  Tire Shop
.
I said she is gorgeous, not with-it.  I'm glad she called me, though.

When I was in college I had class with this chick who had just transferred from Marshall for what I later found out were some boyfriend/family issues.  Anyway, she is new to campus and doesn’t know anyone. We sat beside each other and started striking up conversations and sort of became friends. But never hung out outside of class or anything.  One Friday afternoon I get a call from her saying she has a flat tire and hated to bother me but didn’t know anyone else to call blah, blah, blah.

I go over and change her tire and then ride with her to a local shop to get a new one.  I guess she had relayed all this information to her dad so he tells her to tell me thank you for helping her and to buy me dinner to show his gratitude.  So, we go to dinner, have a few drinks, and then the night ends in a way I’m sure would have lessened his gratitude toward me a great deal.

Moral of the story? Teach your daughters to change their own tires.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on June 21, 2021, 04:05:25 PM

I think it's becoming proven in an era when everyone runs negative, that the less of record you have for anyone to hold against you, the better.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 21, 2021, 04:11:55 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 21, 2021, 12:32:32 PM

My apologies to @MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) -- I didn't take pictures of the finished product of the brisket yesterday...

All's forgiven we're good......can only imagine the gruel that will be featured with the promotion. Gonna try add-blockers on your posts

PS - turned on create yesterday and they had Steve Raichlen doing like 12 hr smoke Briskett,should have seen the bark and the rest - I wept

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 21, 2021, 04:14:56 PM

Quote from: Kris60 on June 21, 2021, 02:57:20 PM

Moral of the story? Teach your daughters to change their own tires.

Hey OAM has a flat

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 21, 2021, 04:19:12 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 21, 2021, 02:05:58 PM

Herschel Walker hints again that he will run for Senate in Georgia (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/Herschel-Walker-hints-run-Senate-Georgia-Raphael-Warnock-166795362/?fbclid=IwAR1FpKv_0EqkJG5EauGOXqyYrEBUqP1LUfdPLIQnVuWbRznHi8ZqYbad124)

Quote from: utee94 on June 21, 2021, 02:07:18 PM

Cool.

It's sounding like Matthew McConaughey might make a run for Texas governor.
 

I'm Gonna make a run for some Beer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on June 21, 2021, 04:26:46 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 19, 2021, 08:58:21 AM

Long ago, I'd spend weekends, parts thereof, working on my cars, if the weather was decent, changing oil, plugs, points, condenser, filters, tires, random checks.

Cars back then needed a LOT more work than they do today, and I was poor.

I never had "director" in my title though, I had "manager" for a while, which is odd because I wasn't.  I'm sure I've mentioned how little I did in a day my last few years "working".  There wasn't much for me to do even had I been assiduous about it.  And they replaced me with TWO people. 

Completely understand that, I was lucky my grandfather was a mechanic.  Got my parts cheaper than retail, but I had to do the work myself.  He would stand over me, help me diagnose and give me guidance. Believe me it helped when I was poor.  Now, between not knowing what I doing with all the new fangled technology and having the money to pay for it, won't even consider doing it myself. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 21, 2021, 04:38:19 PM

Really,one feels like Cooter working on something out of Operation Blue Book

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2021, 04:55:53 PM

Cars today take little maintenance, just change your oil, and they usually have an oil indicator to tell you when.  The GTI uses synthetic, which is great stuff and lasts about a year.  Tires usually don't lose pressure.  You'll have some air filters to consider every so often.

I once saw a guy at a filling station charge the lady next to me $5 to change her air filter.  He had to much around to make it seem like a big deal.

She had a Caddy, this was 1970ish.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 21, 2021, 06:40:12 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 21, 2021, 04:19:12 PM

I'm Gonna make a run for some Beer

A run? Or really more of an energetic walk?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 21, 2021, 07:38:19 PM

It's a Biyatch getting across the parking lot in one piece,and I lost my $4.00 off rebate ticket

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2021, 09:09:06 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 19, 2021, 01:53:00 PM

I would fairly often meet folks from smaller companies who had VP of somesuch on their business card, to find out later they had zero or one report total.

Title inflation.

When I first joined the company, a Director supervised a Division of 400-500 people.  When I left, divisions would be 50-100 people.  So, they replicated the position so as to reward folks.  The Director position was reduced to being an Associate Director in effect.

I've been working really hard to "suffer" title deflation. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2021, 09:10:37 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 19, 2021, 05:06:22 PM

I had on point where I had one report, though I didn't have a title that grand. Basically, I worked my ass off and did a pretty good job, but you couldn't raise up my salary as an individual contributor, so they needed to give me a management role. (And now I have another management role in a new field that is more true management, but with a very small team. I think that happened because I asked for better money and to give it, they needed that role)

I wonder if it's a case of salaries shifting away from non-managers. I joked with someone that I wish I'd gotten into a more specialized field, where I could be a higher paid IC, but life isn't like that. Since we have so many engineers and STEM folks, am I right that you can get by as an IC, or is there always some pressure to move up to management to be more financially stable?

What is an IC?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2021, 09:18:36 AM

My last boss was an associate director and desparate to become a director.  I'm told he's still there, he's about my age.  He replaced me with two people simply to try and pump up his numbers.  The good news is his office was in another building so I rarely saw him.

He did give me a raise every January like clockwork.  He was an OK guy I suppose, just a bit weird.  He got annoyed that I wouldn't invite the other folks in his department to my retirement party, I had to invite him as the company was paying for it.  I asked him not to make a speech, but he claimed he had to, so I asked him to keep it short.

We had it at the wine bar I frequented, and I had a nice bottle of Italian wine added to the tab for me to enjoy the next day, alone.  Brunello di Montalcino, some really good stuff.  I spotted some Kirkland Brunello once and bought 6 bottles, man was that good stuff.  They were sold out when I went back, I would have bought them out.  If you want a really good Italian wine that has, well, muscles, try Brunello.  It's from Tuscany, really a kind of Chianti.

Brunello di Montalcino Wine: It's Worth The Wait | Wine Folly (https://winefolly.com/deep-dive/brunello-di-montalcino-its-worth-the-wait/)

The other Italian red of note sound similar, Barolo, but isn't.  It's also very good, usually, and has a twin called Barbaresco.  And then there is Montepulciano which sounds similar and isn't, it's a lighter wine, still good, but not great.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 22, 2021, 09:31:28 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2021, 09:10:37 AM

What is an IC?

Individual contributor. 

It's apparently a tech word for non-manager. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2021, 09:44:52 AM

Never heard of it.

We have a lot of those making a lot of money every-other-Friday. 

We need more of those. Can't find those.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 22, 2021, 09:52:13 AM

Everybody needs ICs.  You can only have so many managers, not doing any real work but still taking salary... :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 22, 2021, 10:13:39 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2021, 09:44:52 AM

Never heard of it.

We have a lot of those making a lot of money every-other-Friday.

We need more of those. Can't find those.

At least the bolded part helps in some with the finding. Hoping your training arrangement produces more of those and in turn more prosperous households. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 22, 2021, 10:14:22 AM

Quote from: utee94 on June 22, 2021, 09:52:13 AM

Everybody needs ICs.  You can only have so many managers, not doing any real work but still taking salary... :)

Where do I get that job?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2021, 10:25:31 AM

We finally established a "dual ladder", which didn't work very well, managers on one side and "technologists" on the other.  There were 3-4 managers at the same level of a single tech guy though, so your odds of advancement were much higher as a manager, especially if you were female.  The choice was voluntary, and VERY few females chose the tech side, I advised several of them to choose because they would have advanced rapidly on the tech side.  None of them did.

My buddy from South Africa was on the tech side and that was why they counted him as "African American", seriously.  He was the only one at his level in our group and they showed the numbers and he asked me who was the black person at his level in our group.  He was it, he knew it, I knew it.  He wanted to make a scene and I talked him out of it.

He had red hair and freckles.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 22, 2021, 10:30:17 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 22, 2021, 10:25:31 AM

We finally established a "dual ladder", which didn't work very well, managers on one side and "technologists" on the other.  There were 3-4 managers at the same level of a single tech guy though, so your odds of advancement were much higher as a manager, especially if you were female.  The choice was voluntary, and VERY few females chose the tech side, I advised several of them to choose because they would have advanced rapidly on the tech side.  None of them did.

My buddy from South Africa was on the tech side and that was why they counted him as "African American", seriously.  He was the only one at his level in our group and they showed the numbers and he asked me who was the black person at his level in our group.  He was it, he knew it, I knew it.  He wanted to make a scene and I talked him out of it.

He had red hair and freckles.

Yeah pretty much every high tech company I've ever worked for uses some type of "dual ladder" approach.  It works with varying degrees of success.

The issue for ICs climbing the technologist ladder, is that you only need so many super-senior-level ones, for the business.  Generally it ends up being a place for PHDs doing R&D or Advanced Product Development type work.  Because no matter how good an IC might be at the job, you just don't need to pay VP-level money for him or her. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 22, 2021, 10:45:05 AM

35 years in the corporate/Finance world and I will say this:

Managers are a dime a dozen.  Usually they add value. 

But real leaders are tough to find- and are incredibly valuable.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2021, 10:52:28 AM

We had very few PhDs at the top level, they were mostly engineers.  Why?  The managers were nearly all engineers, and the managers made the decisions on promotions.

I think there were 8 at the top level when I left, maybe one was a PhD.  Maybe.  The managers were in general not competent to make these judgments on technical grounds, so they made them on "other" grounds, who could suck up the most was one of them.  And it helped a lot to have an important rabbi.

I'm not complaining, they paid me a lot for very little, I probably could have made one more level had I pedaled a lot, but I chose to phase out.

I would have been one level from the top, with no chance at the top.  I had a choice between staying on a project where my managers were  lying about my work, or taking a sinecure.  I would be driving home squeezing the steering wheel and thought I need to get away from this.  The managers lied that project into existence, the company spent a lot of money on it, and it basically flamed out, though I think they still make the product.

I confronted my direct manager and he told me "You have to exaggerate to get a product over the threshold."  Talking to his boss was pointless, and his boss was a lady VP who couldn't understand anything.  She was a cheerleader type, man was she DUMB, really really DUMB.  I hated having to present to her.

If the project had failed and any of their lies surfaced, they would have blamed me for it.  I was very vulnerable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2021, 11:03:39 AM

SCIENCE AND RELIGION | Edge.org (https://www.edge.org/conversation/werner_heisenberg-science-and-religion)

A neat read I think.

And so the discussion continued, and we were all of us surprised to notice that Wolfgang was keeping so silent. He would pull a long face or smile rather maliciously from time to time, but he said nothing. In the end, we had to ask him to tell us what he thought. He seemed a little surprised and then said: "Well, our friend Dirac, too, has a religion, and its guiding principle is: 'There is no God and Dirac is His prophet.'" We all laughed, including Dirac, and this brought our evening in the hotel lounge to a close.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2021, 11:09:48 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 22, 2021, 10:13:39 AM

At least the bolded part helps in some with the finding. Hoping your training arrangement produces more of those and in turn more prosperous households.

There is nobody out there to hire. 

We train really well. The big firms ALWAYS try to come in and steal our 2-3 year engineers. Sometimes it works.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 22, 2021, 11:47:49 AM

There is of course title inflation, but it's not typically as bad at bigger companies than smaller.

I feel like I could have left years ago and found some small company to throw the title "Director" at me, probably for equal or less pay than what I was getting. But it wouldn't really make it any easier for me to get into another big company with the title Director because everyone knows it would be inflated. Same thing now--I could probably keep the Director title for 2-3 years and parlay it into a VP title at a small company, but would that make it any more likely that I'd come back to a large company as a VP? Not really. 

I did carry the title Technologist prior, because that was on the engineering side and I'm going to the dark side now (starts with M, ends with ing, and has arket in the middle). But it's moving one level up, so the equivalent I believe would have been Sr. Technologist.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2021, 12:26:20 PM

Dirac was regarded by his friends and colleagues as unusual in character. In a 1926 letter to Paul Ehrenfest (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Ehrenfest), Albert Einstein (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein) wrote of Dirac, "I have trouble with Dirac. This balancing on the dizzying path between genius and madness is awful." In another letter he wrote, "I don't understand Dirac at all (Compton effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compton_scattering))."^{[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Dirac#cite_note-12)}

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2021, 12:29:25 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/YjGjHt7.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2021, 12:33:02 PM

Interesting stuff.

Team Sweden Unlocked on Twitter: "Here’s the UK’s 2011 pandemic plan: Masks, Border Closures, Mass Gatherings: not recommended, no evidence to support their efficacy. Also: “It will not be possible to stop the spread of, or to eradicate, the pandemic” https://t.co/nej1Qtffuy https://t.co/CYjrcCMoDy" / Twitter (https://twitter.com/SwedenTeam/status/1406736970391474178)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2021, 12:37:35 PM

I think it worth paying attention to countries that run experiments, like Sweden, and Portugal.

And Venezuela.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2021, 02:21:47 PM

The Varsity shuts its doors in Athens after nearly 90 years – WSB-TV Channel 2 - Atlanta (wsbtv.com) (https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/clarke-county/varsity-shuts-its-doors-athens-after-nearly-90-years/O2FUDJKDGVACFLMY4IO3ACIAZQ/?fbclid=IwAR2IEb5-zE-d7BMO1gisemfsXzo4Jq1krlmYoJVtRV_oUNPhspe-9Z0dTbQ)

I have mixed feelings about this, it's an old tradition, but the fact is their food isn't very good, the ones in ATL the same.

It was a fun visit when I was a kid, but I guess my palet has improved since.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2021, 02:38:32 PM

This Battleship Was Slammed by Three Kamikazes and Kept Fighting | The National Interest (https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/battleship-was-slammed-three-kamikazes-and-kept-fighting-188008)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 22, 2021, 03:02:01 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 22, 2021, 02:21:47 PM

The Varsity shuts its doors in Athens after nearly 90 years – WSB-TV Channel 2 - Atlanta (wsbtv.com) (https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/clarke-county/varsity-shuts-its-doors-athens-after-nearly-90-years/O2FUDJKDGVACFLMY4IO3ACIAZQ/?fbclid=IwAR2IEb5-zE-d7BMO1gisemfsXzo4Jq1krlmYoJVtRV_oUNPhspe-9Z0dTbQ)

I have mixed feelings about this, it's an old tradition, but the fact is their food isn't very good, the ones in ATL the same.

It was a fun visit when I was a kid, but I guess my palet has improved since.

The only time I ever went there I was mostly unimpressed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 22, 2021, 03:10:43 PM

I've been to The Varsity in Atlanta and the one in Marietta when I lived there, but in those two years I never made it to Athens.

I was unimpressed with both ones I visited though. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2021, 03:15:41 PM

The main Varsity in Atlanta is kind of a "visit once" sort of place, maybe, but if you don't, meh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2021, 07:12:05 PM

Tested: 2020 Chevrolet, Ford, and Ram HD Pickup Pull-Off (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a35408232/2020-chevrolet-vs-ford-vs-ram-hd-pickup-pull-off/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR2bXbJ8ImjaRGVsMNcxmTfAqSG5D5hW8c2FH7-hqhw986dt7xN_ktUxneU)

Towing vehicles, amazing torque figures.

But whether it's a matter of hardware difference or blind faith, Chevy engineers must believe in their drive­line more than Ford's number crunchers trust their rotating bits, as there's a big difference in how the Silverado converts its potential energy into kinetic energy. Where the F-250 limits torque in 4Lo, the Silverado is champing at the bit to be unleashed. The Duramax is making enough torque when we release the brake that all four tires threaten to spin. The tractor-pull regulars who have gathered to watch our little contest are so impressed by the Silverado's dig from a standstill that the crowd spits out a string of expletives.
The Chevy's shifts are more assertive than the Ford's, and the rev-happy diesel never comes off boil as it makes forward progress. The Silverado reaches 150 feet 1.7 seconds quicker than the Ford, hustling 1.6 mph faster at that mark. While that might not seem like much, when your top speed is 20.9 mph, it's enough to get the job done. The heaviest-in-test Chevy makes a triumphant run, grinding to a stop 3.7 feet past a full pull. As we always say, it's not the size of the torque output that matters; it's how you use it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 22, 2021, 09:50:17 PM

love Chevy kicks Ford posts

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 22, 2021, 10:07:00 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 22, 2021, 09:50:17 PM

love Chevy kicks Ford posts

Fearless has 10 of these, stuck all about his truck:

(https://i.imgur.com/fSc9FFk.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 23, 2021, 07:41:10 AM

Gotta tell ya,the Siverado had all sorts of electrical problems,2 yrs back a buddy's son had a new one for 8 months,half of which were spent in the shop.Fin ally agreeing to swap it out and I forget what model.Some body on here had or knew or family had the same problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on June 23, 2021, 08:35:03 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 22, 2021, 03:15:41 PM

The main Varsity in Atlanta is kind of a "visit once" sort of place, maybe, but if you don't, meh.

Food was lousy.  Dreamsicle type frosted orange was refreshing on a hot day I suppose. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2021, 08:59:35 AM

I think most cars today are remarkably reliable.  Some folks will have issues with any make.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 23, 2021, 09:09:59 AM

I drove Chevys from 1995 to 2018.  I had a Ford for 10 years in there as well, and I currently also have a Ford.  I haven't noticed any difference in quality/reliability.

The best car-- by far-- we've ever owned, was my i s c & a aggie wife's Honda Accord.

And the worst car-- by far-- we've ever owned, was my i s c & a aggie wife's Toyota Camry Solara.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 23, 2021, 09:12:28 AM

the new Ford F-150 Hybrid seems to be impressive

Debuting in the refreshed-for-2021 F-150, the PowerBoost hybrid pairs Ford's twin-turbocharged 3.5-liter V-6 with a 47-hp electric motor, making this the highest-output powertrain in the current F-150 lineup.  The motor is sandwiched between the engine and the stand­ard 10-speed automatic, while a 1.5-kWh lithium-ion battery tucks under the bed. The battery may seem a bit small for a vehicle of this size, but Ford chose it because it's easy to package and less costly than larger packs, and its weight won't considerably impact the all-important towing and payload capacities. Combined output for this powertrain is a stout 430 horses and 570 pound-feet of torque

it's got the towing capacity for utee.......

the max payload and towing capacities for the hybrid are impressive, at 2120 and 12,700 pounds, respectively.

The motor isn't designed to provide meaningful acceleration on its own, but it does allow for short periods of electric cruising at low speeds. Transitions from gas to electric power are almost imperceptible, as is the changeover from regenerative to friction braking. The hybrid scores 24 mpg on the EPA's combined cycle, 4 mpg more than a regular EcoBoost 3.5 F-150 manages.

the best feature for Texans must be its onboard generator system. It uses the engine to turn the motor, which provides up to a substantial 7.2 kilowatts of electricity to outlets in the bed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 23, 2021, 09:24:46 AM

Yup, I've been asking for a hybrid pickup for years.

That towing and payload capacity aren't really any different than what I have now, but I imagine the electric motor provides a nice increase in torque whilst under load, which is always welcome during towing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2021, 09:25:35 AM

The electric motor would only produce that power for relatively short periods of course.

If you towed something up a long hill and needed the electric motor, at some point it probably would have to stop.

But a hybrid truck design is a very good idea if not too expensive, you could put in a larger battery but cost goes up, payload goes down.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 23, 2021, 12:06:28 PM

Bulldawgs vs Bearcats on SEC network

but, I'm watching the 98 Rose bowl

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2021, 12:15:14 PM

Cincy showed they were not a pastry in that game, I'm not sure if they are going to do as well this year, but they appear to be ranked up there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 23, 2021, 11:50:17 PM

Way to go ESPN...thought this guy's name was Adrian....  But what do I know

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-0/p180x540/203329352_1520864498083967_6501002054557916329_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=jifdFAghS7EAX8GQFu7&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=6cd92f003d06d97402f4c9c697f36d87&oe=60D9318A)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2021, 09:50:44 AM

A new article claims the North Korean People’s Army Pokpung-ho IV main battle tank has the “most terrible firepower in the world.” A closer examination of the tank, however, reveals a tank that doesn’t quite live up to its name of “Storm Tiger,” the literal translation of Pokpung-ho.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a36805563/north-korea-storm-tiger-tank/ (https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a36805563/north-korea-storm-tiger-tank/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 24, 2021, 10:08:13 AM

Ummm...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2021, 10:12:59 AM

I find armored vehicles interesting.  I saw that article about the NK tank.  Antitank weaponry today including choppers is pretty fearsome.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 24, 2021, 12:00:10 PM

Ugh, is anyone following this story out of South Florida?  A partial building collapse of a residential multi-story condo in Surfside, outside of Miami.

So far 1 confirmed death, many rescued, but 51 unaccounted for (some might not have been in the building at the time).  Rescue efforts underway.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/miami-florida-building-collapse-06-24-21/index.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2021, 12:03:03 PM

I'm keeping up with it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 24, 2021, 12:05:23 PM

Here's video footage of the actual collapse.  This doesn't look normal at all.  Looks almost like an intentional, controlled demo.

https://twitter.com/DavidBegnaud/status/1408057066275606529

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 24, 2021, 12:13:21 PM

Quote from: utee94 on June 24, 2021, 12:00:10 PM

Ugh, is anyone following this story out of South Florida?  A partial building collapse of a residential multi-story condo in Surfside, outside of Miami.

So far 1 confirmed death, many rescued, but 51 unaccounted for (some might not have been in the building at the time).  Rescue efforts underway.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/miami-florida-building-collapse-06-24-21/index.html

You see crap like that in places like South Korea but not here

There got to be more to the story here

multi story buildings just dont collapse on their own

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2021, 02:07:31 PM

I'll take one of these.

Ferrari 296 GTB supercar revealed with unusual V6 engine | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/auto/ferrari-296-gtb-supercar-hybrid-v6)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2021, 02:13:20 PM

Bears on the move through north Atlanta suburbs (ajc.com) (https://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-news/bears-on-the-move-through-north-atlanta-suburbs/5DWIWYLXUNFMNK6EJWNJOAYTRE/?ecmp=norfu&utm_medium=social&utm_source=norfu_fb&fbclid=IwAR18w_kzpEL9aktV5eYmM4imu3XogmwagOibPuPwvJ7ySjyWNrrLV5PtsaQ)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 24, 2021, 02:38:01 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2021, 02:07:31 PM

I'll take one of these.

Ferrari 296 GTB supercar revealed with unusual V6 engine | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/auto/ferrari-296-gtb-supercar-hybrid-v6)

That's pretty.

Their Formula 1 cars also use a hybrid turbo-charged V6 (all F1 cars do).  It's not the exact same engine of course, but they're applying their F1 designs in their development of their mainstream road cars.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 24, 2021, 02:59:11 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2021, 02:07:31 PM

I'll take one of these.

Ferrari 296 GTB supercar revealed with unusual V6 engine | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/auto/ferrari-296-gtb-supercar-hybrid-v6)

not bad for 300 large

what the hell its only money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2021, 03:03:58 PM

Maybe we can all split it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2021, 03:52:49 PM

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]Professor of physics Jim Al-Khalili investigates the most accurate and yet perplexing scientific theory ever - quantum physics.[/color]

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 24, 2021, 04:23:37 PM

Quote from: utee94 on June 24, 2021, 12:05:23 PM

Here's video footage of the actual collapse.  This doesn't look normal at all.  Looks almost like an intentional, controlled demo.

It looked liked charges going off or perhaps generators or sumsuch lighting up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2021, 04:58:23 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 24, 2021, 02:59:11 PM

not bad for 300 large

what the hell its only money

similar to buying a boat

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2021, 06:06:04 PM

SEC Network

2018 Rose Bowl - Dawgs vs Boomers

6pm central

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 24, 2021, 06:48:10 PM

Don't have that channel

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 24, 2021, 07:07:28 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 24, 2021, 06:06:04 PM

SEC Network

2018 Rose Bowl - Dawgs vs Boomers

6pm central

Horns CWS kinda takes priority for me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2021, 07:38:45 PM

thunderstorm delay

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 24, 2021, 07:51:14 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 24, 2021, 07:38:45 PM

thunderstorm delay

really didnt know as Im taping it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2021, 07:57:10 PM

I won't post the play by play

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 24, 2021, 08:19:22 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 24, 2021, 07:57:10 PM

I won't post the play by play

thats ok once the game starts I shut her down

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2021, 08:17:16 AM

I watched some of the last part of that Rose Bowl again.  Obviously, there were points at which either team could have won it, and something happened.

It went back and forth.  Duh.  Neither team was obviously better than the other overall, but one team wins.  UGA later lost on a last second heave by Tu'a in the NC game that coulda gone the other way.

When you get two closely matched teams competing, it comes down to flukes, bounces of the ball, whatever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 25, 2021, 10:03:21 AM

better to be lucky than good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2021, 10:15:32 AM

I think you have to be very good AND lucky, aside from 1995 Nebraska.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 25, 2021, 10:25:52 AM

true

closest game ................. Washington State 35-21

I was in attendance 

stats weren't that close

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 25, 2021, 10:31:19 AM

That fiasco on Miami Beach is going to have a much higher body count than 4 when it's over. What a mess.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 25, 2021, 10:35:50 AM

Happy Belated!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 25, 2021, 10:55:42 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on June 25, 2021, 10:31:19 AM

That fiasco on Miami Beach is going to have a much higher body count than 4 when it's over. What a mess.

The investigation will probably last months, if not longer. Need to look at the remaining structure for clues as to how part of it just sheered off. I've never seen anything like this before.

Some professor down there is saying that the building has been sinking for years.

NOW he tells us.


Building collapse in Miami: Structure had been sinking into the earth (usatoday.com) (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2021/06/24/building-collapse-miami-structure-had-been-sinking-into-earth/7778631002/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2021, 01:02:24 PM

Geesh, can you imagine a 12 story building "sinking for years" and not having someone make a deal of it?  Maybe it was sinking an inch or two and no big deal?

If the building where I live started sinking, I'd be out, it would be condemned, rightly so.

If it was noticably sinking for years, then the collapse origins are probably just that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 25, 2021, 01:15:07 PM

Day off. First time boarding the dog. My wife and I are doing our first hotel visit in over a year. Just a little overnight getaway to San Diego.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 25, 2021, 01:57:46 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 25, 2021, 01:02:24 PM

Geesh, can you imagine a 12 story building "sinking for years" and not having someone make a deal of it?  Maybe it was sinking an inch or two and no big deal?

If the building where I live started sinking, I'd be out, it would be condemned, rightly so.

If it was noticably sinking for years, then the collapse origins are probably just that.

I remember hearing of a tall, residential building San Francisco that has been sinking for years. The tenants were trying to recover their investments but were not having any luck. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 25, 2021, 03:23:50 PM

If the building was settling at 2mm/year since the early 90s, that's 2 1/2". Also, the videos seem to show it started at the bottom. If it had started at the top, it would have pancaked the floors before it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SFBadger96 on June 25, 2021, 04:06:15 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 25, 2021, 01:57:46 PM

I remember hearing of a tall, residential building San Francisco that has been sinking for years. The tenants were trying to recover their investments but were not having any luck.

Yup, the Millenium Tower: https://www.sfgate.com/news/editorspicks/article/SF-s-sinking-Millenium-Tower-to-finally-get-fixed-15439863.php#

Much of downtown San Francisco is built on sludge that is effectively landfill. Foundations are always pretty interesting, especially so as it's in a severe earthquake zone.

All kinds of litigation coming out of that one.

And if you follow that link, you'll see that it's very close to the Sales Force Tower, the tallest building in the city, and newer than the Millenium Tower. All of these new buildings are hyper sensitive to the foundation issues, even more so following the Millenium Tower debacle.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 25, 2021, 04:30:42 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on June 25, 2021, 03:23:50 PM

If the building was settling at 2mm/year since the early 90s, that's 2 1/2". Also, the videos seem to show it started at the bottom. If it had started at the top, it would have pancaked the floors before it.

I'm not a civil engineer (graduate) as you know, so my background in structures is far less than yours.

Since it started at the bottom, does that tell you that the sinking could be the root cause for this?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 25, 2021, 04:56:23 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/PO03sBo.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 25, 2021, 05:00:05 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 25, 2021, 04:56:23 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/PO03sBo.png)

I see the correlation in your posts. It would take a civil engineer to build that hamburger lol

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 25, 2021, 05:01:05 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 25, 2021, 05:00:05 PM

I see the correlation in your posts. It would take a civil engineer to build that hamburger lol

Gotta have a solid foundation bro!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 25, 2021, 06:58:03 PM

the wooden serving board from Drew?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 25, 2021, 08:10:00 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 25, 2021, 05:01:05 PM

Gotta have a solid foundation bro!!

This is making me think of all of the delicious burgers I’ve consumed where the bottom half of the bun it’s just overwhelmed soggy and falling apart

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 25, 2021, 08:17:19 PM

I don't mind finishing a burger with a fork

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 25, 2021, 10:25:20 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 25, 2021, 04:56:23 PM

[img width=343.455 height=300]https://i.imgur.com/PO03sBo.png[/img]

Your own? We had lunch at Hodad's in San Diego (featured on DDD) and it was excellent.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 25, 2021, 10:45:16 PM

After a few days at the Grand Canyon and a few others at a cabin in the Pecos Wilderness in NM, I'm back in the south.  Gotta love the first gas/pee/food stop was at a gas station that offered a fried catfish dinner for $5.99 and had hot boiled peanuts!!!!
.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 25, 2021, 11:03:48 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 25, 2021, 10:25:20 PM

Your own? We had lunch at Hodad's in San Diego (featured on DDD) and it was excellent.

GUIDO BURGER – $9.75
Inspired by triple D’s Guy Fieri
Our Burger served with Pastrami, Ketchup, Pickles, Swiss Cheese, Grilled Onions and Spicy Brown Mustard
and Side of Onion Rings +$3.25


plus a couple Microbrew Draft – $7 each????

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 26, 2021, 08:42:10 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 25, 2021, 06:58:03 PM

the wooden serving board from Drew?

Just thinking that,bastage could have brought a burger for the rest of us

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 26, 2021, 08:53:47 AM

Back in the day, ground sirloin tasted like sirloin and was really good, you didn't need a bun.  I'm sure I could get some at the local butcher, I always forget to ask.

And yes, it would be $12 a pound probably.  

I still really like flatiron steak.  I wonder what that is like ground.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 26, 2021, 09:10:18 AM

Prolly have to add some fat

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 26, 2021, 09:19:16 AM

Yeah, I was thinking that, a good burger needs 20% fat or so.

Suet they call it at times?

The wife will often buy 92% lean ground beef and want me to grill them.  She forgets.

The beef names in France are very different, or some different, and she's never learned what they are here.  I admit it's confusing.  I usually buy the beef.  And pork.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 26, 2021, 09:39:26 AM

Bacon Fat in the fridge?Also grating onions in can add moisture - that's all i got

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 26, 2021, 09:43:23 AM

The best burgers, in my experience, are equal parts brisket, skirt and ribeye.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 26, 2021, 12:08:32 PM

I like my blend of chuck and brisket. Well beyond 20% :72:

Heading back to get the dog and head home in a bit here. Despite Hodad's for lunch yesterday I'll be making burgers tonight as well.

Last night had an excellent meal in Little Italy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 26, 2021, 12:15:26 PM

https://baconup.com/product/bacon-up/ (https://baconup.com/product/bacon-up/)

(https://baconup.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/bu-profile.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 26, 2021, 01:03:33 PM

We had lunch at the Mukja Korean Fried Chicken place.  Yum.  Shawn, one of the owners, chatted with me a while about Korea (He's from LA Koreatown).

He says fried chicken in Korea is HUGE.  I had chicken and waffles, the waffles contained "stuff" including serano peppers.  He was telling me it would be a kind of pancaoke in Korea.  He said different parts of Korea might have more pork and seafood, but mainly it was chicken, fried.

It's really good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 26, 2021, 01:35:57 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 26, 2021, 12:15:26 PM

https://baconup.com/product/bacon-up/ (https://baconup.com/product/bacon-up/)

HA!Next level flavor - they're not wrong there,is some of that in your fridge?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 26, 2021, 04:28:19 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 25, 2021, 04:30:42 PM

I'm not a civil engineer (graduate) as you know, so my background in structures is far less than yours.

Since it started at the bottom, does that tell you that the sinking could be the root cause for this?

As some notorious individuals can tell you, it's really hard to compromise the integrity of a column from outside the cross-section. But if the footing underneath the column has problems, look out. That is why bridge engineers spend so much time working with and modeling scour. Given that there had been damage done to some concrete in the pool deck area prior to this collapse, I'm willing to buy some of "Uneven pier settlement caused a column to let go". There was a condo tower on South Padre Island that had to be imploded during construction due to too much and uneven settlement.

Piles of buildings are generally driven to bedrock, and especially in places like Miami Beach where the subgrade is just one giant sand dune at sea level. The underlying bedrock (assuming the piles got there) is karst limestone, which is very susceptible to water degradation. 

Add in that this building is from the pre-Andrew cocaine cowboys era of south Florida (weaker building codes, dubious material selection, and lax enforcement of said codes), and there could be a lot more where this came from. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 26, 2021, 04:59:01 PM

Did y’all hear anything about some new college football playoff?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 26, 2021, 05:02:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 26, 2021, 04:59:01 PM

Did y’all hear anything about some new college football playoff?

And what's this pandemic thing I've heard about? Any threads for that yet?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 26, 2021, 05:34:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 26, 2021, 04:59:01 PM

Did y’all hear anything about some new college football playoff?

please start a thread if needed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 26, 2021, 05:36:23 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 26, 2021, 01:35:57 PM

HA!Next level flavor - they're not wrong there,is some of that in your fridge?

ad popped up on my phone early this morning and then I'm reading through this thread..............

I save my own bacon fat as my mother and grandmother, but I would mind trying a bucket of that stuff if it's not too expensive

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 26, 2021, 06:27:17 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-0/p526x296/202823987_4013232275455591_8861260367999355855_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=MMe6FHg9jFUAX-s9Y-s&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=1b1357ed1693c3813c5a595497a06ccf&oe=60DC21DF)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 26, 2021, 08:39:34 PM

Get some white jacketed young men to try out for the 'Skers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 26, 2021, 08:51:09 PM

straight jacketed?

wait, that's Harbaugh.........

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 26, 2021, 09:13:34 PM

Anybody here now eat Vienna sausages?  I did on occasion as a kid, they were like, well, tasteless globs of goo.  I think even less of them now.

I'd rather eat Spam.  In Hawaii.

My Dad likes the sausages for some reason, on crackers.  Is there something to them I miss?  I see them in the stores today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 26, 2021, 09:27:27 PM

I saw some brisket at Costco and took a flier.  Heat up in microwave, well, it's OK, not great, but OK.

The wife however concocted this "taco" version with her homemade slaw, guac, maters, holy cow, is that good.  The slaw somehow sets it off.  I didn't even add jalapenoes.

The brisket by itself is decent, not great, but edible and quick.  She was really taken with it too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 26, 2021, 09:30:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 26, 2021, 09:27:27 PM

I saw some brisket at Costco and took a flier.  Heat up in microwave, well, it's OK, not great, but OK.

The wife however concocted this "taco" version with her homemade slaw, guac, maters, holy cow, is that good.  The slaw somehow sets it off.  I didn't even add jalapenoes.

The brisket by itself is decent, not great, but edible and quick.  She was really taken with it too.

Brisket != Microwave

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 26, 2021, 09:38:43 PM

brisket is only good one way.  Low and slow

I'm not sure warming it in the microwave or grinding it in Burger is worth it.

Warming leftover brisket in a pot O Texas chili is decent

it's not s desirable cut of beef

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 26, 2021, 09:54:02 PM

The Costco brisket is already low and slowed, so the microwave is solely to reheat it.  It's better, by a notch, than the "BBQ" you can buy at Kroger, that is, well, something.  It's better than McRib.  Ha.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 26, 2021, 10:12:08 PM

in other news........... a life long friend of mine and a friend of @Badgerfan is once again selling hormone free Iowa Corn-fed beef.

Beef for sale! 1/4 to whole beef available. We are butchering these cattle in July and August if you or anyone you know would be interested. Call or message for availability and prices. Drug and hormone free. Please share with friends or family. Thanks!

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-0/p526x296/206801275_227888075832414_5995442534465342730_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=ieFzXPopp-wAX-7Imfr&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=b14baec72afa7e7f191fca41d1323b6a&oe=60DC1376)

I've delivered beef to Badgerfan and many others.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2021, 08:37:49 AM

Do we think "hormone free" is a thing?

My step son always bought "cage free eggs", so when he lived with us I did that as well.  I read up on what it means, basically nothing at all, not a thing, a complete marketing ploy.  Hypoallergenic is the same, really worse, it has no defined meaning, you can slap it on anything.  "Not tested on animals" is similarly absurd, it means the product was not tested on animals, of course every ingredient in the product was at some time or other unless it's GRAS.

"Organic" of course is hugely popular, now, and has a defined meaning, but I think in many cases it doean's mean much of anything.  They don't label stuff "pesticide free" because technically nobody could.

I see "organic beef" advertised on the webz, I have no clue what that means.  Is there inorganic beef?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 27, 2021, 09:04:13 AM

Quote

My step son always bought "cage free eggs", so when he lived with us I did that as well.  I read up on what it means, basically nothing at all, not a thing, a complete marketing ploy. 

Heh, here comes the egg lobby. For real this time. These terms go through god knows how much negotiation so they can be slapped on a carton of eggs. There is a lot of friction between what the people want - chickens that don't live in terrible conditions, chickens that run around eating bugs and stuff like the good lord intended, verses the other thing people want, which is cheap eggs. Terms like cage free are an endeavor where companies can try to maximize both, and in effect just defines just how terrible the chickens can live v. how cheaply the eggs can be manufactured.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 27, 2021, 09:36:23 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 26, 2021, 05:36:23 PM

ad popped up on my phone early this morning and then I'm reading through this thread..............

I save my own bacon fat as my mother and grandmother, but I would mind trying a bucket of that stuff if it's not too expensive

$10 on Amazon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 27, 2021, 09:40:39 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 26, 2021, 10:12:08 PM

in other news........... a life long friend of mine and a friend of @Badgerfan is once again selling hormone free Iowa Corn-fed beef.

Beef for sale! 1/4 to whole beef available. We are butchering these cattle in July and August if you or anyone you know would be interested. Call or message for availability and prices. Drug and hormone free. Please share with friends or family. Thanks!

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-0/p526x296/206801275_227888075832414_5995442534465342730_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=ieFzXPopp-wAX-7Imfr&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=b14baec72afa7e7f191fca41d1323b6a&oe=60DC1376)

I've delivered beef to Badgerfan and many others.

I'd like a 1/4. How would it get here?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2021, 09:51:24 AM

I'll talk to Mr. Willer

shipping will be expensive, I'd imagine

perhaps I could load up the Husker RED Chevy and make a run to Florida, through Ohio, North Carolina, and Atlanta

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2021, 09:55:19 AM

Most of the terms on items in the store are trumped up marketing claims meaning nothing.

Some have specific definitions but most don't, and the specific definitions can have a lot of leeway.

One interesting ad from yore was technically sound, "Whiter than white".  That one surprised me when I learned what it meant.  There actually is "whiter than white" in human perception, it is a noticeable factor.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2021, 10:18:11 AM

not sure about USDA definitions, but this guy Never administered antibiotics or growth hormones to this beef.

I've known him since grade school.  He's not just trying to earn a label.

Cattle are not free range or grass fed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2021, 10:22:05 AM

It's really not important to me

but, the beef is tasty and that is important

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 27, 2021, 10:23:55 AM

Yes, advertisers are basically well-paid to deceive the masses.  
All they have to do is use generally-positive wording that isn't measurable or falsifiable...but also more than that.  Using little words like "may" instead of "will," or "up to," etc.  
.
It's all garbage that works on us.  It's unethical and yet it's a 200-year old industry.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 27, 2021, 10:25:40 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 27, 2021, 09:04:13 AM

Heh, here comes the egg lobby. For real this time. These terms go through god knows how much negotiation so they can be slapped on a carton of eggs. There is a lot of friction between what the people want - chickens that don't live in terrible conditions, chickens that run around eating bugs and stuff like the good lord intended, verses the other thing people want, which is cheap eggs. Terms like cage free are an endeavor where companies can try to maximize both, and in effect just defines just how terrible the chickens can live v. how cheaply the eggs can be manufactured.

The people who raise the chickens are shat on just as badly as the chickens themselves.  It's a disgusting, broken industry, but when you cite the egg lobby, you're laughed at.
.
People don't care, as long as they get what they want for a cheap price.  We're basic.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 27, 2021, 10:43:43 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 27, 2021, 10:22:05 AM

It's really not important to me

but, the beef is tasty and that is important

Best beef I've ever had.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2021, 10:56:15 AM

I worked for a company that was led by marketers, I rubbed shoulders with them often as not.  I was even offered a job in marketing once, which is a long story, turned it down.  They were mostly a sharp bunch, MBAs from Harvard, Stanford, places like that.  And if they didn't get promoted in 4 years, they'd leave, it was up or out.  I had one friend I kept up with who left companies after 4-5 years for another promotion, he ended up at a high level at some well known company and finally settled, I think.

Even we pencil necks had marketing training, which I found quite interesting.  Every CEO was from marketing, never an exception to that.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 27, 2021, 12:18:12 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 27, 2021, 09:40:39 AM

I'd like a 1/4. How would it get here?

Perhaps OAM can pick it up on the way home

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2021, 12:32:36 PM

just a slight detour

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 27, 2021, 12:52:33 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 27, 2021, 09:55:19 AM

Most of the terms on items in the store are trumped up marketing claims meaning nothing.

Some have specific definitions but most don't, and the specific definitions can have a lot of leeway.

https://www.amazon.com/Omnivores-Dilemma-Natural-History-Meals/dp/0143038583

Great book,huge facilities are used for "free range chicken".There are openings to the outside but like pavlovs dogs generations of chickens have been conditioned to feast at the trough occassionally moving to different locations but never running outside.This one organic farmer bought an old farmstead in Va. and scraped out an living.He made a chicken coup on a trailer so he could move it around so the birds would fertilize different areas.He would move around goats/cattle/sheep for the same reason.About once a months all hands would gather to butcher their actual free range chickens.He had an outdoor pavilion with cement floor and wooden tables spread out with different stations of the process. He had a well also with pumped fresh water. When butchering was done tables were rinsed,bleached/disinfected and rinsed again. They had Ice packed coolers and i believe a refridge truck from a near by grocer customer.

ANYWAY one day the state inspector happened by and inquired why the operation didn't have an exhaust fan - on a building wide open to the elements :41:
When the proprietor recovered his composure he explained how that process worx.The inspector evidently had to inquire with his boss to check compliance. All sort of red tape by rubes deputized by the government

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 27, 2021, 01:16:55 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 27, 2021, 12:52:33 PM

 All sort of red tape by rubes deputized by the government

And influenced by those in power in said industry.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 27, 2021, 01:18:04 PM

I'll be down in Gainesville for the next few days, then back up to GA.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2021, 02:43:59 PM

I had to deal with government refs several times in my job.  We had an OSHA inspector on site once I had to "manage" and he couldn't understand their rules.  He was on the phone with DC for about an hour.  He was only there because a disaffected contract worker in another part of our operation called us in for a violation but the dude didn't have the names of the chemicals right.  We ended up with some paper violations that I was tasked to fix, which meant reading the CFR.  Holy cow what a mess.

Even if you mean to do the right thing, you can't.  Parts of it ran afoul of state regulations, and other parts ran afoul of EEOC regulations dealing with pregnant women.

I can't treat a pregnant employee differently from a male.  I did anyway when I had one, but was subtle about it.

I came up with corrections and we passed our followup so I guess it was good.

You really can't write decent regulations with input from industry, that's where the expertise lies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 27, 2021, 03:48:59 PM

Personal best today. +9 over 18 holes (69 on par 60 course)... Have never had two birdies in a round before; I had three today.

Sometimes it's nice to feel like a real golfer out there...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 27, 2021, 04:02:00 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 27, 2021, 03:48:59 PM

Personal best today. +9 over 18 holes (69 on par 60 course)... Have never had two birdies in a round before; I had three today.

Sometimes it's nice to feel like a real golfer out there...

👍👍👍

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2021, 05:17:46 PM

good work on the links

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 27, 2021, 08:58:11 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 27, 2021, 03:48:59 PM

Personal best today. +9 over 18 holes (69 on par 60 course)... Have never had two birdies in a round before; I had three today.

Sometimes it's nice to feel like a real golfer out there...

Ya get a promotion and all you've done is eat and golf....they're gonna love you pity - the sap that takes your old position

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 28, 2021, 07:46:08 AM

New Pentagon report sheds little light on UFOs | TheHill (https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/560447-new-pentagon-report-sheds-little-light-on-ufos)

I often note how some new government investigation and report is due out X, and when it comes out, THUD.

I don't know the last time some report had anything real in it, meaning something that changed something of substance.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 28, 2021, 08:13:57 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/Zc9xzEa.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on June 28, 2021, 10:55:53 AM

If there is highly secret UFO program replete with aliens and recovered flying saucers those running it are not going to drop their shorts after 74 years because some young pimply Senator from Florida said so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 28, 2021, 11:19:29 AM

I would guess if this is some secret government program, they'd have a better cover story.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 28, 2021, 12:08:46 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 28, 2021, 11:19:29 AM

I would guess if this is some secret government program, they'd have a better cover story.

You have a good point but I do think the UFOs are of earth origin 

and if thats the case some country has a huge advantage over the other powers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 28, 2021, 03:50:09 PM

The UFOs may well be natural phenomena.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 28, 2021, 04:40:51 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 28, 2021, 03:50:09 PM

The UFOs may well be natural phenomena.

global warming is doing strange things

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 28, 2021, 05:58:57 PM

Therefore UFOs are causing Global Warming

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 28, 2021, 06:52:13 PM

Any resource that we have to offer is available in abundance all throughout the Galaxy, largely on uninhabited worlds that can be mined with no resistance. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 28, 2021, 07:05:16 PM

we would give resistance???

scramble the Chinese air force???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 28, 2021, 07:09:37 PM

If it was China, they'd have already established air dominance over us by now. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 28, 2021, 09:23:24 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 28, 2021, 07:05:16 PM

we would give resistance???

scramble the Chinese air force???

Here ya go


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyOTaHRBTXc

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 28, 2021, 09:42:26 PM

(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi4.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FKz4jMDgcNUc%2Fmqdefault.jpg&hash=8a2c7e3c7eb2e2f4b597861f548f7cd4)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 28, 2021, 09:58:34 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 28, 2021, 09:42:26 PM

(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi4.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FKz4jMDgcNUc%2Fmqdefault.jpg&hash=8a2c7e3c7eb2e2f4b597861f548f7cd4)

yep that too

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 28, 2021, 10:45:42 PM

dont forget about Snoopy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icsHJhMeXYo

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2021, 09:05:23 AM

I'd think a very advanced civilization might plausibly have no interest in us, or if they did, would use microprobes to "keep tabs".  Fifty light years is a LONG way obviously.

And it is possible that said civilization might know of 10-15-20 other worlds harboring life within their reach of say 100 light years.  We might be comparatively boring to them.  Would they have any need to come here "in person"?  Probably not, unless they wanted to colonize.

And travsersing said distance "in person" obviously is difficult.  They likely could terraform local planets and moons and do better.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2021, 10:39:49 AM

Atlanta Restaurants: Rooftop Restaurant Aerial Kitchen and Bar Is Opening Near the Pool at Midtown Hotel Epicurean Atlanta - Eater Atlanta (https://atlanta.eater.com/2021/6/28/22553777/rooftop-restaurant-aerial-kitchen-bar-opening-epicurean-atlanta-hotel-midtown?fbclid=IwAR2iLCEejrnJukrflCvu6cKaET0aoIW0bVKWbrJ508hkqaP2VPMtNWffBtQ)

(https://i.imgur.com/EAFkmVb.jpg)

Is this a place you would frequent?  I'm sure we'll stop by, probably once, and it looks nice of course, but expensive.

There is a "nice bar" in the Four Seasons we've gone a couple of times but their drink prices are pricey.

We don't generally go to bars.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 29, 2021, 11:08:09 AM

Well of course they'd be more likely to be drones and not manned aircrafts, if they are coming from 50 light years away. 

We send drones to neighboring planets instead of visiting them in person ourselves.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 29, 2021, 11:43:40 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 29, 2021, 10:39:49 AM

Atlanta Restaurants: Rooftop Restaurant Aerial Kitchen and Bar Is Opening Near the Pool at Midtown Hotel Epicurean Atlanta - Eater Atlanta (https://atlanta.eater.com/2021/6/28/22553777/rooftop-restaurant-aerial-kitchen-bar-opening-epicurean-atlanta-hotel-midtown?fbclid=IwAR2iLCEejrnJukrflCvu6cKaET0aoIW0bVKWbrJ508hkqaP2VPMtNWffBtQ)


Is this a place you would frequent?  I'm sure we'll stop by, probably once, and it looks nice of course, but expensive.

There is a "nice bar" in the Four Seasons we've gone a couple of times but their drink prices are pricey.

We don't generally go to bars.

Certainly not a place I'd frequent. Might be a place I'd go if visiting Atlanta with my wife to be "fancy". 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2021, 12:42:39 PM

Yeah, might be more for business drinks and tourists.

We go on occasion to the bar next to us, not often because it doesn't make much sense.  Their food is decent at least and drinks are normally priced, which is to say, 
pricey.  If a place can break even on food and make money on alcohol, they usually are doing well.

This place just opened near us, we walked through, it was crowded, just looked at menus.  They have a bar in ths middle of it.

Politan Row at Colony Square (https://atlanta.politanrow.com/)

Politan Row is a talent-driven food hall platform coming to Midtown Atlanta. Founded in 2014, we create design-forward destinations for the culinarily curious.

I'm curious.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 29, 2021, 12:53:20 PM

Oooh, a "design-forward" "talent-driven food hall platform" for the "culinarily curious"? 

Sounds swanky... And pretentious...

(Sounds like the type of place I'd like lol...)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2021, 01:01:42 PM

Yeah, the verbiage is pretty silly, I agree, the menus looked interesting and moderately priced.  I'm sure we'll try some places over time, the nice thing is I can get Vietnamese and the wife and get a pizza.

Entree Menu - Bun Mi Vietnamese Grill (bunmigrill.com) (https://www.bunmigrill.com/menu/entree-menu/)

Prices in the $8-12 range, typical for around here.

Burgers are a big deal around here, maybe they are most places.  We lunch on occasion at this out of the way place that has a good double cheeseburger for $8 with fries and a drink.  I think they get subsidized by the  office building they are in.

Food Big Apple cafe Atlanta, GA 30309 - 22 Reviews and Photos - Restaurantji (https://www.restaurantji.com/ga/atlanta/food-big-apple-cafe-/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 29, 2021, 02:38:35 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 29, 2021, 11:43:40 AM

Certainly not a place I'd frequent. Might be a place I'd go if visiting Atlanta with my wife to be "fancy".

If someone else was really wanting to go there I might tag along, more likely if they were buying

it's not uncommon to find $2 domestic beers here.  5 bucks for a glass of decent liquor 
paying more than $10 for a drink annoys me a bit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2021, 02:45:55 PM

A couple in Cincy visit us once a year in fall.  We took them to a bar at the Four Seasons and I introduced them to Hennessey XO.  They loved it, and ordered two each.  The bar charges $48 per at the time.  He's a big Ohio State fan but likes CFB like we do here.  He's a patent attorney, which is a boring job but pays well.

They were coming this year, but cancelled to join us in Colorado when we're headed out there in October.

It's fun showing them around town.

The XO at our favorite French restaurant was $26 per, it went up recently though.

Average normal bar prices here are $4-8 for a beer, and $7-12 for mixed anything.  One place has $3 PBR, which the wife likes.

The Sweetwater brewery is worth a visit if you ever are down this way, it's very nice.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2021, 02:52:00 PM

Why are there not more Refrigerator Perry's these days?

UGA used a DL last year on offense some, he even caught a TD pass.

I don't mean on the goal line, but couldn't a 275 pound super athlete make a good running back up the middle?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 29, 2021, 02:52:55 PM

$3 PBRs!  I could get along with the wife

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 29, 2021, 02:53:50 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 29, 2021, 02:52:00 PM

Why are there not more Refrigerator Perry's these days?

UGA used a DL last year on offense some, he even caught a TD pass.

I don't mean on the goal line, but couldn't a 275 pound super athlete make a good running back up the middle?

shoot, Frost won't even put a fullback on the roster

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2021, 03:18:30 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 29, 2021, 02:52:55 PM

$3 PBRs!  I could get along with the wife

She likes lighter beers, the lighter the better, I think she doesn't like beer much.

Fortunately, I can handle 420 just fine, and she liked that.  We just got a 24 pack at Costco.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 29, 2021, 03:35:26 PM

Sweetwater Brewing's 420 Extra Pale Ale??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 29, 2021, 04:11:40 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 29, 2021, 02:52:55 PM

$3 PBRs!  I could get along with the wife

PBR me ASAP

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 29, 2021, 04:13:33 PM

bonus if they're tall boys

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 29, 2021, 04:15:50 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 28, 2021, 07:05:16 PM

we would give resistance???

scramble the Chinese air force???

We'll send up CD & his crop duster and that'll be that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2021, 04:22:01 PM

We are going here on Sunday, and then watching the fireworks from a hotel nearby. Got a room so we could sit on their rooftop.

The Perfect Caper – Punta Gorda, FL (https://theperfectcaper.com/)

Wyvern Hotel, Ascend Hotel Collection - Punta Gorda, FL Hotel (choicehotels.com) (https://www.choicehotels.com/florida/punta-gorda/ascend-hotels/flf58?pmf=yext&mc=llyxyxpx)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 29, 2021, 04:27:22 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 27, 2021, 09:40:39 AM

I'd like a 1/4. How would it get here?

talked to Mike, no shipping options

I have a friend in Boston who also wants a quarter

best bet is my big red truck, but that's a long shot
sorry

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2021, 04:28:16 PM

Darn. I guess I better find a local. Thanks for trying.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 29, 2021, 04:32:43 PM

if I ever think about making that drive, (extremely doubtful) I'll load up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2021, 04:35:15 PM

It is a VERY long drive for you. 1700 miles.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 29, 2021, 04:38:13 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 28, 2021, 09:42:26 PM

(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi4.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FKz4jMDgcNUc%2Fmqdefault.jpg&hash=8a2c7e3c7eb2e2f4b597861f548f7cd4)

Did you see that flick like 40 yrs ago? The opening scene had a Japanese sub off of the Cali coast looking for "Hollywood".When the sub surfaced the periscope went up between some hot chic's legs who was skinny dipping while the Jaws theme was pounding.Then all the officers come out on the Conning Tower Observation Deck looking for "Hollywood" or something to torpedo.Well they all go back down and the last guy looks up and sees that sparkling backside and shouts HOLLYWOOD as the sub is going down and sea water pouring in the port,about the only funny part of the flick

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 29, 2021, 04:41:34 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 29, 2021, 04:27:22 PM

talked to Mike, no shipping options

I have a friend in Boston who also wants a quarter

best bet is my big red truck, but that's a long shot
sorry

So you offer up all this marvelous meat and no way of getting it to us on time.Might as well thow it in the bed on a pallet and by the time you get here we might have some jerky

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 29, 2021, 04:41:49 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2021, 04:35:15 PM

It is a VERY long drive for you. 1700 miles.

it's what airplanes are for, IMO

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 29, 2021, 04:43:38 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 29, 2021, 04:38:13 PM

Did you see that flick like 40 yrs ago? The opening scene had a Japanese sub off of the Cali coast looking for "Hollywood".When the sub surfaced the periscope went up between some hot chic's legs who was skinny dipping while the Jaws theme was pounding.Then all the officers come out on the Conning Tower Observation Deck looking for "Hollywood" or something to torpedo.Well they all go back down and the last guy looks up and sees that sparkling backside and shouts HOLLYWOOD as the sub is going down and sea water pouring in the port,about the only funny part of the flick

I thought Slim Pickens pretending to take a dump was funny as hell

(https://c8.alamy.com/comp/BP7J0Y/slim-pickens-1941-1979-BP7J0Y.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 29, 2021, 04:44:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 29, 2021, 10:39:49 AM

Atlanta Restaurants: Rooftop Restaurant Aerial Kitchen and Bar Is Opening Near the Pool at Midtown Hotel Epicurean Atlanta - Eater Atlanta (https://atlanta.eater.com/2021/6/28/22553777/rooftop-restaurant-aerial-kitchen-bar-opening-epicurean-atlanta-hotel-midtown?fbclid=IwAR2iLCEejrnJukrflCvu6cKaET0aoIW0bVKWbrJ508hkqaP2VPMtNWffBtQ)

(https://i.imgur.com/EAFkmVb.jpg)

Can you have sloppy joe's and red wine on that couch?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 29, 2021, 04:48:59 PM

Customer meeting today. As I'm driving to the meeting, I find out one of the salespeople couldn't make it.

His flight was cancelled...

...because the airplane was hit by a car.

:smiley_confused1:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 29, 2021, 04:52:28 PM

a buddy is coming over tonight for Cesar salad, NY Strip steaks, grilled fresh asparagus,  and twice baked taters with bacon & cheese

He asked me to pick up a bottle of this........ he likes it.

(https://www.wineanorak.com/wineblog/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/meiomipinotnoir-500x313.jpg)

entire tab from the grocery was $43, plus $20 for the wine

I plan to drink scotch 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 29, 2021, 04:53:28 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 29, 2021, 04:48:59 PM

Customer meeting today. As I'm driving to the meeting, I find out one of the salespeople couldn't make it.

His flight was cancelled...

...because the airplane was hit by a car.

:smiley_confused1:

cars on the tarmac?  hopefully not on the runway


worse yet, the plane on a public road?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2021, 04:54:45 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 29, 2021, 04:41:49 PM

it's what airplanes are for, IMO

I agree, but the charges for bags over 50 pounds is a lot of coin. And the max is 100 pounds.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 29, 2021, 05:01:49 PM

that's not gonna work

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2021, 05:35:34 PM

I don't even know if a commercial airline would allow beef as luggage. I doubt it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 29, 2021, 05:40:37 PM

back in the day, my buddy from Boston brought live lobsters on the plane

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2021, 12:02:39 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 29, 2021, 04:52:28 PM

a buddy is coming over tonight for Cesar salad, NY Strip steaks, grilled fresh asparagus,  and twice baked taters with bacon & cheese

He asked me to pick up a bottle of this........ he likes it.

(https://www.wineanorak.com/wineblog/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/meiomipinotnoir-500x313.jpg)

entire tab from the grocery was $43, plus $20 for the wine

I plan to drink scotch

They sell that at Costco. Pretty sure it was under $20. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2021, 07:54:43 AM

Meiomi is pinot for folks who don't like pinot.  Someone told me it had a good splash of syrah in it.

It is $20 in Ohio, about $15 here at Costco.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2021, 09:30:34 AM

I assisted in emptying two bottles last night

was pretty good by my lofty standards

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 30, 2021, 09:33:03 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 30, 2021, 09:30:34 AM

I assisted in emptying two bottles last night

was pretty good by my lofty standards

whata a kwinky dink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2021, 01:40:35 PM

(https://www2.247sports.com/content/224525/999dac00f6fe85ec8d55657add912f89.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 30, 2021, 01:52:44 PM

You're trolling.  Post the Nebraska one, then.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2021, 03:04:56 PM

Huskers didn't make the list

it's a derned shame

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on June 30, 2021, 03:30:58 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 29, 2021, 05:40:37 PM

back in the day, my buddy from Boston brought live lobsters on the plane

Plenty of people bring crabs back on the flight from Vegas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2021, 04:21:03 PM

We are at Callaway Gardens for two days, nice place.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 30, 2021, 05:27:13 PM

Quote from: ELA on June 30, 2021, 03:30:58 PM

Plenty of people bring crabs back on the flight from Vegas

"What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas." *

* This slogan includes all communicable diseases.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 30, 2021, 06:25:53 PM

Cosby is a free man...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA4yuz8qgj4

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 30, 2021, 10:19:48 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on June 30, 2021, 06:25:53 PM

Cosby is a free man...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA4yuz8qgj4

That is bad, though the legal wrangling is wild.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 01, 2021, 08:04:52 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 29, 2021, 04:48:59 PM

Customer meeting today. As I'm driving to the meeting, I find out one of the salespeople couldn't make it.

His flight was cancelled...

...because the airplane was hit by a car.

:smiley_confused1:

Perhaps it was one of these 
(https://i.imgur.com/ZQa9xle.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on July 01, 2021, 10:06:35 PM

Tough news, always a likeable guy

https://twitter.com/MarkRicht/status/1410747815400132616?s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 01, 2021, 10:33:02 PM

That's sad.  
So is the 2nd half of his post.  It's gross.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 01, 2021, 10:36:35 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 01, 2021, 10:33:02 PM

That's sad. 
So is the 2nd half of his post.  It's gross. 

Agreed, it did seem unnecessarily opportunistic and in poor taste, to turn the announcement of his illness into an advertisement for the ACC Network.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 02, 2021, 08:29:11 AM

You're always thinking Butch

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2021, 10:26:39 AM

Quote from: utee94 on July 01, 2021, 10:36:35 PM

Agreed, it did seem unnecessarily opportunistic and in poor taste, to turn the announcement of his illness into an advertisement for the ACC Network.

Right.
Oh, btw, where is heaven?
Is it a gated community?
Are you forever the age you died or some younger self you choose?
Which denomination is correct?
Zealots of other religions believe just as earnestly as you do, so what makes you right and them wrong?
Can you wear colors in heaven or is it like Wimbledon?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 02, 2021, 10:38:39 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2021, 10:26:39 AM

Right.
Oh, btw, where is heaven?
Is it a gated community?
Are you forever the age you died or some younger self you choose?
Which denomination is correct?
Zealots of other religions believe just as earnestly as you do, so what makes you right and them wrong?
Can you wear colors in heaven or is it like Wimbledon?

spare us your mockery of the Christian faith please

and go back to teaching America's children

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2021, 10:40:42 AM

No answers.  No evidence.  Let us promote our fantasy as fact.  Not polite to talk about.  
I'll shut up when legislators stop acting as if this life is a dress-rehearsal and they're motivated by an invisible man in the sky. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 02, 2021, 10:45:26 AM

Don't encourage the moron. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 02, 2021, 10:48:20 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2021, 10:40:42 AM

No answers.  No evidence.  Let us promote our fantasy as fact.  Not polite to talk about. 
I'll shut up when legislators stop acting as if this life is a dress-rehearsal and they're motivated by an invisible man in the sky.

Look you dont believe in a God

we get it and guess what we dont care

why do you feel the need to make fun of anothers religion 

why do you have to preach to us the degree that you dont believe in God

youre wasting your time cause we dont care

why does it bring you so much enjoyment to do this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2021, 11:11:57 AM

I don't mock atheists

I also don't push Christianity on others

to each their own 

if Mark Richt bothers you, take it up with him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2021, 11:14:47 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on July 02, 2021, 10:45:26 AM

Don't encourage the moron.

I'm a moron because I don't believe in your fantasy tale.  Now that's brilliant!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2021, 11:18:14 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 02, 2021, 10:48:20 AM

youre wasting your time cause we dont care

why does it bring you so much enjoyment to do this

Because you don't care.  Because you willfully cherish this little blind spot that's impervious to reason or just sheer logic.  Go ask an atheist in Texas how it feels when law after law is passed, based on the bye-bull.  Tell them to be apathetic about it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2021, 11:22:23 AM

On a lighter note, my dad is watching a western and the female lead is using some kind of cartoonish Swedish accent.  It's brutal.
The good news is that he seems to prefer watching westerns more and FoxNews less. I'm genuinely thankful for that.  And they haven't watched a minute of Hallmark Channel yet!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2021, 11:26:05 AM

I think less Fox news and less CNN is better for everyone

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2021, 11:27:32 AM

This cute, affable Shriner's Hospital kid is great and all, but he's been at it for a few years now.  I think he's going to pull through.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 02, 2021, 11:29:53 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2021, 11:14:47 AM

I'm a moron because I don't believe in your fantasy tale.  Now that's brilliant!

For the umteenth time I'm not religious.

I'm also not a big enough d-bag to use someone's coping mechanism for a serious disease as a platform from which to broadcast my d-baggery from the mountain tops. 

To each their own. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2021, 11:32:50 AM

It's d-baggery to want as many adults to believe as many true things as possible and disbelieve as many false things as possible.  Got it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2021, 11:37:15 AM

Good to see Jimmy Walker finding work, promoting medicare supplements or something.  LOL

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 02, 2021, 12:03:42 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2021, 11:18:14 AM

Because you don't care.  Because you willfully cherish this little blind spot that's impervious to reason or just sheer logic.  Go ask an atheist in Texas how it feels when law after law is passed, based on the bye-bull.  Tell them to be apathetic about it.

Yeah but we're not talking about a law passed in Texas. We're talking about Mark Richt. He spoke of religion because it's important to him. It has nothing to do with you and yet you honed in on it. Why?

As Jefferson said, "It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."

I'm also an atheist. If someone is trying to use the force of law to push their religious beliefs in violation of your freedom, I'll stand right beside you and fight.

If someone is just saying that they believe that their eternal soul will go to a happy place when they die, I'll be silent. I'm not going to convince them otherwise and it's kind of an a*****e behavior to demean them for it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 02, 2021, 12:11:06 PM

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 02, 2021, 02:18:13 PM

That ugly old Constitution thing, always getting in the way of Enlightened Society.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2021, 04:35:36 PM

So in these last few posts, I'm an asshole, against Jefferson, and against the constitution.  Except that I'm not.  Richt is never going to read my words or care what I say.  So he's unharmed.  Jefferson was confident that he'd done enough to separate church and state - and while he should have done enough, evidently he didn't.  He couldn't have foreseen the radicalized law-making going on today (mainly state by state).  He wouldn't fathom his neighbor being something like a Texas legislator voting to make an abortion virtually impossible to get, despite it being a totally legal act.  
.
And I don't think there should be any legislation against religion, just that people stop making an exception for it.  It's childish.  Embarrassing.  
We're all freely allowed to eat applesauce from our belly buttons, but it doesn't mean we should do it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 02, 2021, 04:57:36 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2021, 04:35:36 PM

  
We're all freely allowed to eat applesauce from our belly buttons, but it doesn't mean we should do it. 

Shit. I do that every damn day man.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 02, 2021, 05:23:31 PM

I bet that fro likes to fart in crowded elevators

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2021, 05:33:58 PM

I bet BYU athletes should be able to promote caffeinated products.....but they can't.  Because God.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 02, 2021, 05:53:44 PM

When Fro taught Kindergarten, Day 1's lesson would be titled "The Truth about Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny" 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2021, 06:58:20 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2021, 05:33:58 PM

I bet BYU athletes should be able to promote caffeinated products.....but they can't.  Because God.

if BYU athletes want to promote those products, they have free will to chose another school

they are not oppressed
there's a transfer portal

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2021, 07:59:53 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 02, 2021, 06:58:20 PM

if BYU athletes want to promote those products, they have free will to chose another school

they are not oppressed
there's a transfer portal

Who said they were oppressed?  
I'm saying they're silly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2021, 08:00:40 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on July 02, 2021, 05:53:44 PM

When Fro taught Kindergarten, Day 1's lesson would be titled "The Truth about Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny"

There's as much evidence for either of those as any god.  More, actually.  Santa delivers at a far higher rate than prayer does.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2021, 08:16:33 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2021, 07:59:53 PM

Who said they were oppressed? 
I'm saying they're silly.

there's an abundance of silliness out there including your's
what's your point?

the BYU athletes??.............the promotion of products? ...............the restriction of not promoting silly products?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 03, 2021, 08:16:48 AM

This will be fixed by Friday. It was just completed. The residents Lvoe it.

(https://i.imgur.com/CBothR5.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 03, 2021, 01:45:32 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2021, 10:26:39 AM

Right.
Oh, btw, where is heaven?
Is it a gated community?
Are you forever the age you died or some younger self you choose?
Which denomination is correct?
Zealots of other religions believe just as earnestly as you do, so what makes you right and them wrong?
Can you wear colors in heaven or is it like Wimbledon?

JFC.

You know those times when you ask why people are crappy to you on this board. It's pointless nonsense like this. No reason to get in a dumb fight over nothing and bring unneeded discord to this place. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 03, 2021, 07:25:04 PM

Anything but answers to the questions, right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 03, 2021, 09:15:19 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 02, 2021, 08:16:33 PM

what's your point?

the BYU athletes??.............the promotion of products? ...............the restriction of not promoting silly products?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 03, 2021, 11:08:58 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 03, 2021, 07:25:04 PM

Anything but answers to the questions, right?

My comment stands. Lord, trying to pull me into a debate about beliefs I don't even hold. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 04, 2021, 06:00:44 AM

Too the wife to Callaway Garden.  Nice place, a bit pricey, we walked a lot, weather was decent.  Probably won't go back.  View from hotel:

(https://i.imgur.com/zofr3pE.jpg)
Visited Little White House in Warm Springs, interesting, and FDR State Park.  I learned that the "mountains" are the southern most in continental US, or they claimed.  I think they hit 1300 feet ASL at one point, more of a ridge, called Pine Mountain.  You can see it in photo background.

Stayed one night in Macon at a B&B built in 1842, was nice, some nice houses around being restored, Macon downtown is trying to revive, emphasis on trying.  Had dinner at their top restaurant according to some, meh.

Visited Ocmulgee Indian Mounds the next day.  This folks had a lot of free time on their hands.  I took more photos with my phone than with my camera.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 04, 2021, 06:16:24 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/ZCgfc6G.jpg)

This is located about 85 miles SW of the ATL towards Columbus.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 04, 2021, 06:19:48 AM

This is the Little White House, which indeed is little:

(https://i.imgur.com/nSF2dui.jpg)



FDR had very high blood pressure which was untreatable at the time and died of a brain aneurysm here.  The FDR State Park located nearby is the largest in the state, a pretty nice area, low mountain range.  This is an overlook FDR liked a lot.

(https://i.imgur.com/2vgPvbk.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Kris60 on July 04, 2021, 08:46:36 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2021, 11:32:50 AM

It's d-baggery to want as many adults to believe as many true things as possible and disbelieve as many false things as possible.  Got it.

It’s d-baggery to mock others for their religious beliefs. I mean, of course you know that but for some reason you like to continue to play a game on here.

You make comments trying to get a reaction, you get the reaction, and then act wide eyed shocked when it happens.  You made the comment about Richt knowing there are people on here who share Richt’s beliefs. You made the comment to get a reaction from them.  You know it, I know it, and everyone on here knows it.

When people think less of you as a person it’s for stuff like that.  But, again, you already knew that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 04, 2021, 09:55:14 AM

Happy Birthday America

God Bless the USA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 04, 2021, 10:27:48 AM

A thing unusual about our Revolution is that it was led by fairly wealthy, educated folks.  A lot of revolutions are started by idealogues, folks dedicated to something, perhaps fairly well educated but generally not the upper crust.  And of course racial and nationality factors can play into the cause.

Our FFs were British and of course white, though a fair number of black men served in the armies.  I don't know of another somewhat similar revolution in history.  Some of the leaders in the French revolution were educated of course.  

Napoleon who came to power much later in that situation was not even French.  He was educated, and caught some breaks.

I find the debates leading up to our Constitution to be fascinating, and of course we really were not a country per se until 1787.  The first attempt was a pretty clear failure.  The second had issues.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 04, 2021, 10:43:19 AM

Utah...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ilp1-YTu0gI

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Kris60 on July 04, 2021, 11:19:36 AM

Daughter’s LL Softball Team made state’s. That’s great and I’m excited for her.

The problem is they are turning a 6 team tournament into a 5 day marathon. They could have this thing knocked out in a weekend but they are stretching it out. There are some kids on our team who absolutely can’t afford to stay in a hotel and eat out that long. It’s ridiculous.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 04, 2021, 11:22:57 AM

A co-worker's daughters were in a softball tourney in Utah that wrapped up after midnight.  Idk if that's a good plan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 04, 2021, 11:25:47 AM

Quote from: Kris60 on July 04, 2021, 08:46:36 AM

It’s d-baggery to mock others for their religious beliefs. I mean, of course you know that but for some reason you like to continue to play a game on here.

You make comments trying to get a reaction, you get the reaction, and then act wide eyed shocked when it happens.  You made the comment about Richt knowing there are people on here who share Richt’s beliefs. You made the comment to get a reaction from them.  You know it, I know it, and everyone on here knows it.

When people think less of you as a person it’s for stuff like that.  But, again, you already knew that.

See, you're wrong.
Aside from the snarkly joke post, I don't think any of us posts something to illicit a response.  We post to share how we think or feel.  Just as I do. 
If I have a larger goal, I suppose it would be to continue to shed light on irrational beliefs in the hope that someday otherwise rational adults will see them as such. 
It's not my fault if it doesn't happen, is it?
.
Or are you saying it's a lost cause and that a failure to acknowledge that is an asshole move.  I disagree with that, if so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 04, 2021, 11:27:39 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 03, 2021, 11:08:58 PM

My comment stands. Lord, trying to pull me into a debate about beliefs I don't even hold.

I guess I don't see the value in playing along with other people's irrational delusions.
How is humoring them a plus?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 04, 2021, 11:31:37 AM

How is ridiculing them a plus?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 04, 2021, 11:34:22 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 04, 2021, 11:31:37 AM

How is ridiculing them a plus?

It's important for some people, I think, to show their intellectual superiority to strangers.

One way to attempt this of course is to ridicule their beliefs.

But, hey, if your ego needs that type of support on an anonymous message board, I'm all for it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 04, 2021, 11:34:40 AM

I posted that the 2nd half of a tweet made by a person who will never read my comment was gross.
We have different definitions of 'ridicule.'

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 04, 2021, 11:35:21 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 04, 2021, 11:34:22 AM

It's important for some people, I think, to show their intellectual superiority to strangers.

One way to attempt this of course is to ridicule their beliefs.

But, hey, if your ego needs that type of support on an anonymous message board, I'm all for it.

Boy, you guys have a special, exquisite skill at pulling things out from thin air.  FFS
.
Never have I suggested someone is smarter when they don't believe in religion/god and less smart when they do.  Never have I suggested that someone becomes smarter by stopping that kind of belief.
I do note that in 2,000 years, there is zero evidence of any type of god.  Faith is what people use when they don't have a justifiable reason to trust/believe/know something.  
You could believe any absurdity based on faith.
Thus, it's an irrational belief.  
I simply find it odd that adults would willfully hold such an irrational belief.
.
Stop pretending I'm some arrogant ass-hat because of this.  I'm certainly a little arrogant, but it's for far different reasons.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 04, 2021, 11:40:16 AM

To imagine there is ANY chance some posts on a message board will either convert a person to a religious belief, OR away from said religious belief, is illogical.

To imagine it is somehow desirable to make the attempt is illogical.

To imagine some attempt it in order to demonstrate some sort of superiority is however very logical, and typical.

The Egg Lobby says so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 04, 2021, 11:41:17 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 04, 2021, 11:34:40 AM

I posted that the 2nd half of a tweet made by a person who will never read my comment was gross.
We have different definitions of 'ridicule.'

That's how you come across here. You say it's about Richt, but it's not. You targeted every believer, other than atheists.

With this post:

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2021, 11:14:47 AM

I'm a moron because I don't believe in your fantasy tale.  Now that's brilliant!

See?

I believe we are all friends here, no? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 04, 2021, 11:45:30 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 04, 2021, 11:27:39 AM

I guess I don't see the value in playing along with other people's irrational delusions.
How is humoring them a plus?

Because it's not unpleasant. 

Being unpleasant all the time is, well, unpleasant. And if the point is, "I will be unpleasant enough, and people will eventually see I'm right" it's a bad approach on all sorts of levels. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 04, 2021, 11:48:41 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 04, 2021, 11:35:21 AM

Boy, you guys have a special, exquisite skill at pulling things out from thin air.  FFS
.
Never have I suggested someone is smarter when they don't believe in religion/god and less smart when they do.  Never have I suggested that someone becomes smarter by stopping that kind of belief.
I do note that in 2,000 years, there is zero evidence of any type of god.  Faith is what people use when they don't have a justifiable reason to trust/believe/know something. 
You could believe any absurdity based on faith.
Thus, it's an irrational belief. 
I simply find it odd that adults would willfully hold such an irrational belief.
.
Stop pretending I'm some arrogant ass-hat because of this.  I'm certainly a little arrogant, but it's for far different reasons.

I hate to tell you this, you are, in fact, being an arrogant ass-hat. (I don't really. Maybe if we keep saying it to you, an adult, you will finally see that it's true)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 04, 2021, 11:53:41 AM

Nothing wrong about being arrogant, as long as you are a Texan, of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 04, 2021, 11:58:24 AM

What value does Fro add to the board again? That stupid "game" that nobody gives a crap about? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 04, 2021, 12:00:24 PM

It's pretty easy to ignore someone's posts, or make fun of them at times, which can be added value.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 04, 2021, 12:03:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 04, 2021, 12:00:24 PM

It's pretty easy to ignore someone's posts, or make fun of them at times, which can be added value.

well then we must be rich as hell

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 04, 2021, 12:07:43 PM

Are we not entertained?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Kris60 on July 04, 2021, 01:25:43 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 04, 2021, 11:25:47 AM

See, you're wrong.
Aside from the snarkly joke post, I don't think any of us posts something to illicit a response.  We post to share how we think or feel.  Just as I do. 
If I have a larger goal, I suppose it would be to continue to shed light on irrational beliefs in the hope that someday otherwise rational adults will see them as such. 
It's not my fault if it doesn't happen, is it?
.
Or are you saying it's a lost cause and that a failure to acknowledge that is an asshole move.  I disagree with that, if so.

Nah, I’m not wrong. You had a goal to get a reaction and you accomplished it. Hell, I knowingly and purposely helped you accomplish it. But that’s fine. I accept it.  It’s a game people have played on here with you for years. I’m sure today won’t be the last time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 04, 2021, 01:59:23 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 04, 2021, 12:07:43 PM

Are we not entertained?

(https://i.imgur.com/rd66bxU.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 04, 2021, 02:09:48 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 04, 2021, 11:53:41 AM

Nothing wrong about being arrogant, as long as you are a Texan, of course.

Only if you are wearing a 10 gallon hat. Then you kind of have to be

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 04, 2021, 02:26:09 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 04, 2021, 02:09:48 PM

Only if you are wearing a 10 gallon hat. Then you kind of have to be

We Texans are as arrogant as hell but even though we are better then you guys we still respect ya

God Bless America

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 04, 2021, 03:23:25 PM

Quote from: Kris60 on July 04, 2021, 01:25:43 PM

Nah, I’m not wrong. You had a goal to get a reaction and you accomplished it. Hell, I knowingly and purposely helped you accomplish it. But that’s fine. I accept it.  It’s a game people have played on here with you for years. I’m sure today won’t be the last time.

See, when you're telling me my own mind and suggesting my goal was to illicit a reaction when I know that it wasn't - you're wrong.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 04, 2021, 03:25:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 04, 2021, 11:40:16 AM

To imagine there is ANY chance some posts on a message board will either convert a person to a religious belief, OR away from said religious belief, is illogical.

To imagine it is somehow desirable to make the attempt is illogical.

To imagine some attempt it in order to demonstrate some sort of superiority is however very logical, and typical.

The Egg Lobby says so.

This post is literally just "I disagree with you, so you're wrong" and "I agree with myself, so I'm right."  
Thanks for the contribution.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 04, 2021, 03:50:38 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 04, 2021, 03:23:25 PM

See, when you're telling me my own mind and suggesting my goal was to illicit a reaction when I know that it wasn't - you're wrong.

Just FYI, since you did it  twice, "illicit" means illegal, the word you want here is "elicit".

Homonyms, they sound the same, but spelled differently.  John Coffe, Ma'am.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 04, 2021, 03:53:13 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 04, 2021, 03:25:32 PM

This post is literally just "I disagree with you, so you're wrong" and "I agree with myself, so I'm right." 
Thanks for the contribution.

I didn't state anything in disagreement with anyone else.  I stated an opinion, obviously.  And my opinion could be wrong, perhaps someone COULD post something that converts a religious belief from A to Z, it probably has happened at some point in life.

One can argue other point based on logic, experience, fact, etc., but religious belief, or lack thereof, is simple a belief set.  I'd guess if we were born in Pakistan, most of us would be Muslims, at least outwardly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 04, 2021, 04:02:12 PM

It's not even necessarily 

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 04, 2021, 03:50:38 PM

Just FYI, since you did it  twice, "illicit" means illegal, the word you want here is "elicit".

Homonyms, they sound the same, but spelled differently.  John Coffe, Ma'am.

Thanks for the tangent.  If I chose to do the same, it would be a never-ending bitch-fest and my job would never be done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 04, 2021, 04:06:04 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 04, 2021, 03:53:13 PM

I didn't state anything in disagreement with anyone else.  I stated an opinion, obviously.  And my opinion could be wrong, perhaps someone COULD post something that converts a religious belief from A to Z, it probably has happened at some point in life.

One can argue other point based on logic, experience, fact, etc., but religious belief, or lack thereof, is simple a belief set.  I'd guess if we were born in Pakistan, most of us would be Muslims, at least outwardly.

It's not even necessarily about religious beliefs, it's about irrational thinking.  And giving the irrational thinking a special pass.  And saying it shouldn't be discussed (because it's inevitably failing every test, if religion).

I'm told here that it's no hope and a waste of time, yet more and more people are losing their religion.  Trust me, it's not often of their own accord.  Its from conversations and genuine questions and actually answering questions without being afraid or unwilling to explore one's own beliefs.
.
The pushback I get here is telling.  
One thing is for certain:  an echo chamber HATES being questioned.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 04, 2021, 04:06:49 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on July 04, 2021, 11:58:24 AM

What value does Fro add to the board again? That stupid "game" that nobody gives a crap about?

Thanks for the insults.  
Keep it up.  
We're all itching to see your true character, friend.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 04, 2021, 04:07:10 PM

I usually let typos pass, because we all make them.  If someone makes the same error twice in successfion, I figure they might like to be enlightened.

But not everyone appreciates learning new things, so they cling to their old belief set in spite of new and accurate information.  It's very human.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 04, 2021, 04:08:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 04, 2021, 11:41:17 AM

That's how you come across here. You say it's about Richt, but it's not. You targeted every believer, other than atheists.

With this post:


See?

I believe we are all friends here, no?

I'd harp on this topic even more with close friends.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 04, 2021, 04:09:22 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 04, 2021, 11:45:30 AM

Because it's not unpleasant.

Being unpleasant all the time is, well, unpleasant. And if the point is, "I will be unpleasant enough, and people will eventually see I'm right" it's a bad approach on all sorts of levels.

Avoiding this specific unpleasantness is a great way to avoid progress. 
NOPE.  Sorry/not sorry.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 04, 2021, 04:13:43 PM

I often was unpleasant at work, and in hindsight, that was an error on my part.  Folks, especially managers, didn't want to hear what I had to say, so they didn't, whether I ended up being right was irrelevant.

I made the mistake of thinking being right consistently was a plus.  But if you aren't heard and understood, it's pointless.  And the futility of it made me more aggressive and outspoken and ignored.

Managers often are managers because they learned how to play the game, had an early rabbi, and didn't worry about facts and being right.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 04, 2021, 04:20:29 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 04, 2021, 04:08:07 PM

I'd harp on this topic even more with close friends. 

So you're saying we're not close friends? 15 years?

Hell, I'd have drinks and convince you that you are wrong.



;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 04, 2021, 04:24:23 PM

I personally would not "harp on this subject with close friends".  They believe what they believe, I usually know what it is, and I left them go their way.

But I'm pretty relaxed these days, though I never particularly cared about the religious beliefs of another person.  Some of my coworkers were outwardly religious, or outwardly atheistic, it wasn't an issue generally speaking for anyone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 04, 2021, 04:50:45 PM

Just read they are going to sing the Black National Anthem on A Capital 4th

Way to unite us PBS

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2021, 09:28:12 AM

The Peachtree Road Race, the world's largest 10K road race, is held every Fourth of July in Atlanta, Georgia. Hosted by the Atlanta Track Club, the race draws thousands of spectators and volunteers who come out each year to support the runners—all 60,000 of them, in non-pandemic times

(https://i.imgur.com/0bRrB8K.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 05, 2021, 09:44:06 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 04, 2021, 04:20:29 PM

So you're saying we're not close friends? 15 years?

Hell, I'd have drinks and convince you that you are wrong.



;)

I'm with you
Heck, I'd even buy the first round

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2021, 09:54:55 AM

They Called Us "Lucky" – HarperCollins (https://www.harpercollins.com/products/they-called-us-lucky-ruben-gallegojim-defelice?fbclid=IwAR1QONi_u-HAwcNqfUqQZD2VBeXN5lGmT24pHvDqutR0zgSBxfJ_JvnChVM&variant=33090879455266)

Opening up for the first time about his combat experience, Congressman Ruben Gallego (D, AZ) delivers a moving and unforgettable memoir of the eternal bonds forged between the Marines of Lima Company, the hardest-hit unit of the Iraq War.

At first, they were “Lucky Lima.” Infantryman Ruben Gallego and his brothers in Lima Company—3rd Battalion, 25th Marines, young men drawn from blue-collar towns, immigrant households, Navajo reservations—returned unscathed on patrol after patrol through the increasingly violent al Anbar region of Iraq, looking for weapons caches and insurgents trying to destabilize the nascent Iraqi government. After two months in Iraq, Lima didn't have a casualty, not a single Purple Heart, no injury worse than a blister. Lucky Lima.

Then, in May 2005, Lima’s fortunes flipped. Unknown to Ruben and his fellow grunts, al Anbar had recently become a haven for al Qaeda in Mesopotamia. The bin Laden-sponsored group had recruited radicals from all over the world for jihad against the Americans. On one fateful day, they were lured into a death house; the ambush cost the lives of two men, including a platoon sergeant. Two days later, Ruben’s best friend, Jonathon Grant, died in an IED attack, along with several others. Events worsened from there. A disastrous operation in Haditha in August claimed the lives of thirteen Marines when an IED destroyed their amphibious vehicle. It was the worst single-day loss for the Marines since the 1983 Beirut bombings. By the time 3/25 went home in November, it had lost more men than any other single unit in the war. Forty-six Marines and two Navy Corpsmen serving with the battalion in Iraq were killed in action during their roughly nine-month activation.

They Called Us “Lucky” details Ruben Gallego’s journey and includes harrowing accounts of some of the war’s most costly battles. It details the struggles and the successes of Ruben—now a member of Congress—and the rest of Lima Company following Iraq, examining the complicated matter of PTSD. And it serves as a tribute to Ruben’s fallen comrades, who made the ultimate sacrifice for their country. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 05, 2021, 11:43:40 AM

Fro is the Atheist version of the crazy homeless street preacher on a crowed corner, proselytizing to disinterested passersby through a bullhorn. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2021, 11:47:35 AM

I have not seen street corner preachers around here in three years.  I expected there would be some on occasion.  I did see a couple hare krishna a few weeks back.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 05, 2021, 12:48:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 05, 2021, 11:47:35 AM

I have not seen street corner preachers around here in three years.  I expected there would be some on occasion.  I did see a couple hare krishna a few weeks back.

Houston has several


One of them even sings and is pretty good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 05, 2021, 01:07:59 PM

Lincoln had one back in the day - 80s - 90s

I'll have to ask my daughter if there's one or two there now

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on July 05, 2021, 02:34:56 PM

Reminds me of ...

https://youtu.be/E3GGKF6CsjY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 05, 2021, 08:54:30 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on July 05, 2021, 11:43:40 AM

Fro is the Atheist version of the crazy homeless street preacher on a crowed corner, proselytizing to disinterested passersby through a bullhorn.

Except that it's typed and you choose to read it.....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 05, 2021, 08:55:09 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 04, 2021, 04:50:45 PM

Just read they are going to sing the Black National Anthem on A Capital 4th

Way to unite us PBS

If you don't watch it, why do you care?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 05, 2021, 09:14:54 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 05, 2021, 08:55:09 PM

If you don't watch it, why do you care?

Because it is divisive and promotes segregation 

this country only has 1 national anthem and its for everyone not just one race

but PBS did a pretty good job of not going against the National Anthem and put it at the very end of the show

so it could have been worse

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 05, 2021, 10:10:18 PM

I'm not sure how you get that singing another song could be "going against" the national anthem.  It's like gay marriage - it doesn't affect you in the slightest, yet it bothers you so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 05, 2021, 10:53:27 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 05, 2021, 10:10:18 PM

I'm not sure how you get that singing another song could be "going against" the national anthem.  It's like gay marriage - it doesn't affect you in the slightest, yet it bothers you so.

The song itself is for the most part fine 

What I object to is holding out another song as the National Anthem for Black people

Especially if they start replacing our national anthem at group events or singing it in tandem with our national anthem at group events

If someone just wants to sing this song in a show performance no problem

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 05, 2021, 10:54:41 PM

Doesn't 'tandom' mean 'together'?  Sounds awful.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 05, 2021, 10:59:06 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 05, 2021, 10:10:18 PM

I'm not sure how you get that singing another song could be "going against" the national anthem.  It's like gay marriage - it doesn't affect you in the slightest, yet it bothers you so.

how the hell did you reach this conclusion
you dont know me and have no idea how I feel about gay marriage

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 05, 2021, 11:00:27 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 05, 2021, 10:54:41 PM

Doesn't 'tandom' mean 'together'?  Sounds awful.

I talking about singing it right before or right after the National Anthem is performed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2021, 08:53:13 AM

Cadillac Model B 1905 - Amazing Classic Cars (https://amazingclassiccars.com/cadillac-model-b-1905/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0lEd3C9bktd_oeDDfAdPQhJ5l6DIE16FfqN7Qd3EQ4U_rWAgF2VpHbYAE#Echobox=1625522678)

Cars have come a long way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 06, 2021, 06:03:50 PM

watching the Match

Bryson with first blood

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 06, 2021, 08:21:05 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 05, 2021, 09:14:54 PM

Because it is divisive and promotes segregation

this country only has 1 national anthem and its for everyone not just one race

but PBS did a pretty good job of not going against the National Anthem and put it at the very end of the show

so it could have been worse

It is. But alas, it’s too often used as a cudgel to be about “me” and not “us.” That’s the beauty. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 06, 2021, 08:30:10 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 05, 2021, 10:53:27 PM

The song itself is for the most part fine

What I object to is holding out another song as the National Anthem for Black people

Especially if they start replacing our national anthem at group events or singing it in tandem with our national anthem at group events

If someone just wants to sing this song in a show performance no problem

You know, you could just think it is cool that people celebrate America in various ways

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 06, 2021, 08:32:43 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 06, 2021, 08:21:05 PM

It is. But alas, it’s too often used as a cudgel to be about “me” and not “us.” That’s the beauty.

the beauty?

not sure what your point is

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 06, 2021, 08:35:35 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on July 06, 2021, 08:30:10 PM

You know, you could just think it is cool that people celebrate America in various ways

and if thats all this is then cool 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on July 06, 2021, 09:57:45 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2021, 10:40:42 AM

No answers.  No evidence.  Let us promote our fantasy as fact.  Not polite to talk about. 
I'll shut up when legislators stop acting as if this life is a dress-rehearsal and they're motivated by an invisible man in the sky.

drop this and drop it now.  i rarely take a position, as evidenced in a51, where i draw a line and dare someone to cross- but one more and i mean one more attack on somebody for something YOU and YOU alone don't respect (as in the person's choice and freedom) will get you permanently banned from here and tossed off the server. 

this board doesn't need this shit.  it's the most decent cfb board on the internet and i won't let anyone wreck it for their own self righteousness and amusement. 

fucking try me.  make a smart ass retort- do something stupid.. see what happens. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 06, 2021, 10:57:35 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 06, 2021, 08:32:43 PM

the beauty?

not sure what your point is

Sorry, half baked thought there.

Basically, the anthem has its power because it stands for everyone. It stands for the mouthy atheist school teacher as much as the God-fearing marine. It stands for the folks who want to sing another song as much as those who want it to stand alone. It stands for those who won't stand for it. That's the beauty and the power of it. 

At points, it's not been used that way. It's used as a prop to divide. Sometimes by people who want to trigger offense in others, sometimes by those who get offended or feign offense. And if that was a reflection of its true power, it wouldn't be a symbol of unity at all. But it's not. Its power and meaning is beyond that. 

That might not be the best phrasing, but that's the gist of my point.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 06, 2021, 11:51:29 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 06, 2021, 10:57:35 PM

Sorry, half baked thought there.

Basically, the anthem has its power because it stands for everyone. It stands for the mouthy atheist school teacher as much as the God-fearing marine. It stands for the folks who want to sing another song as much as those who want it to stand alone. It stands for those who won't stand for it. That's the beauty and the power of it.

At points, it's not been used that way. It's used as a prop to divide. Sometimes by people who want to trigger offense in others, sometimes by those who get offended or feign offense. And if that was a reflection of its true power, it wouldn't be a symbol of unity at all. But it's not. Its power and meaning is beyond that.

That might not be the best phrasing, but that's the gist of my point.

All of the protesters disrespecting our flag and our National Anthem would do much better if they stopped that crap and simply come out publicly and state their grievance

When they start out showing disrespect to our flag and the National Anthem its become a nonstarter and a lot of folks who might otherwise be sympathetic to the protesters cause dont want to hear it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on July 07, 2021, 12:16:03 AM

America is the most fair, most compassionate, and most willing to change "If this isn't working" nation on the planet.  Those who don't believe that haven't left this country and operate on rumor alone, or never ventured off the beaten path in another nation....

the "old" world is the worst- I've witnessed gays being thrown off buildings for being gay, and Muslims being killed by their fellow Muslim for the blasphemy of suggesting ANY alternate interpretation of the Qu'ran other than that which is widely accepted. 

I've seen albino people in Africa shunned, starved, and a community relieved when they finally died because they figured their condition some sort of mark against the community.  That is straight truth.

Perfect? No we are not.

We ARE better than almost anywhere else if not every where else... some have affinities for Europe or Asia, but if they are honest with themselves and if they are experienced in those places as they pretend- they'll admit the freedom for anyone regardless of any confining label is far greater here than there.  I dare someone to make argument to the contrary with specific experiences and real exposure contradicting. 

Christian? That's fine here.  Using elementary "cool kids" mentality to isolate and bully someone here with that ideology or system of belief won't be tolerated neither will those of any other religion or system of belief...

Like the anthem, college football joins us.  If you want to argue devisive subjects, there is damn sure room for you in a51... they argue just to argue, and though I love those guys they've taken a mean turn over the last year or three I don't like... this board, however, doesn't need that crap. 

If we can't respect others and their opinions outside of college football, then we have notta.  Therefor, I will exterminate with extreme prejudice those at the root of the issue.  There is one here identified as crossing that line.  I made the threat above publicly and so others can see it and hopefully realize we've got a good thing here and don't need the BS from the environment we are subjected to elsewhere, be it social political or theology. 

There isn't a one of yall I wouldn't enjoy a beer or a burger with.  Both would be banging, actually... that doesn't mean I won't argue with any of you over trivial things, but it DOES mean I would respect your position on subjects of devisive characteristics and pretty much avoid them.  You're adults.  Its what adults do... they show respect... they even allow margin when somebody crosses... some take that as weakness... they are the fools that confound nice with weak.  Don't be that one. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2021, 06:18:58 AM

I've mentioned before that my wife is rather dramatically against any notion of moving back to France.  She prefers it here, by a large margin, even though her grandkids are over there.  I think folks may hear about a place, or visit it briefly, and idolize how great it would be to live there, but reality can be different.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2021, 06:37:55 AM

A thing that struck me as very odd here is construction of private student housing, not a little, but a lot of it.

Over Spring Street in Midtown, 19-story project has broken ground | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/midtown-tower-development-georgia-tech-hub-student-housing)

Many of the new buildings that have gone up nearby are for students, apparently, some of them rather substantial.

Off Campus Housing In Midtown | The Mark Atlanta (landmark-properties.com) (https://themarkatlanta.landmark-properties.com/)

I asked our neighbor about it and he noted a lot of the Tech students are Asians with some money and they don't want to live in a dorm, same with Georgia State which has a large student population.  I come from an era of course where students lived in, well, impoverished conditions, not in some high rise deluxe building with "amenities".  I'm sure this trend is not unique to this place.

We looked at a condo just next door to this building.  The folks with units on the 20th floor facing west had a nice view, not they look out at a building a few feet away.  Anyway, this is "student housing" these days, apparently.

(https://i.imgur.com/MpXH81Z.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 07, 2021, 06:44:28 AM

been happening in Lincoln for a few years

also, the new University "housing" is more like apartments

very nice compared to the early 80s

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2021, 06:52:57 AM

Yeah, they seem to be trying to outdo the previous efforts with "amenities".

I'm just surprised at the shear number of units being built, on top of what already exists.  But I see Tech alone claims nearly 27,000 students, that in itself is a big jump from the past.  None of them play football much.

Check that, 40,000 including grad students.

Georgia Tech Enrollment Continues to Rise Despite Pandemic (gatech.edu) (https://news.gatech.edu/2020/11/05/georgia-tech-enrollment-continues-rise-despite-pandemic)

Although Covid-19 shifted the look and feel of the fall semester, Georgia Tech’s Fall 2020 enrollment increased to nearly 40,000 students.

Overall enrollment grew to 39,772, a 9% increase over the previous year. Graduate students accounted for most of the increase, with the bulk of those new students enrolled in online master’s degree programs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 07, 2021, 06:57:15 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 06, 2021, 11:51:29 PM

All of the protesters disrespecting our flag and our National Anthem would do much better if they stopped that crap and simply come out publicly and state their grievance

When they start out showing disrespect to our flag and the National Anthem its become a nonstarter and a lot of folks who might otherwise be sympathetic to the protesters cause dont want to hear it

Possibly. But it's good that they "our" includes them. That it's disrespectful is to a degree in the eye of the beholder. It's not a statement they're making without a certain level of baseline respect for that flag and the enduring meaning of it. But to a degree, we must be careful with such words. When one declares "they're disrespecting the flag" with a subtext that it's a personal affront, that leads people to realize they can claim the flag as theirs and not ours (this has oft been done for decisive reasons). And in truth, this is a far greater form disrespect.

(Also, if the mods would prefer to nuke flag talk, have at. Wouldn't hurt my feelings)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 07, 2021, 06:59:26 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 07, 2021, 06:52:57 AM

Yeah, they seem to be trying to outdo the previous efforts with "amenities".

I feel like most housing seems to match that. I'm moving to a major metro, and every dang new building has to be shiny, with a pool, and a gym, and whatever else. 

I wonder what's happening to the perfectly reasonable apartments. Are they being destroyed or squeezed out? Are they being held onto because they're cheaper? Did they just not exist in this spot before?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2021, 07:13:05 AM

The older apartments and condos here are basic of course, many lack parking, which is a major issue.  A new apt building near us has a golf driving range.  Infinity pools are a big deal.  Some have juice bars and massage areas/spas.  The thing is I suspect these common areas are rarely used.  A realtor friend of mine says such things often get closed down later.

Our building is 32 years old and at some point the common area was redone, fairly nicely, but I rarely see anyone there.  It's adjacent to the pool.  And we're currently trying to upgrade the rooftop deck, which also is almost never used even though it's pretty nice now.  We often go to the pool in summer and can be the only folks there on weekdays.  It gets used on weekends a good bit.

My wife signed me up for the committee to plan what to do with the rooftop, I made one meeting.  She is pretty active on this and asks my advice and I usually say I don't care, because I don't.  It's the floor right above our bedroom and I think she's afraid more use will mean more noise for us.

But I don't think dressing it up will mean more use.  It's a keep up with the neighbors kind of thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 07, 2021, 07:17:36 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 07, 2021, 06:59:26 AM

I feel like most housing seems to match that. I'm moving to a major metro, and every dang new building has to be shiny, with a pool, and a gym, and whatever else.

I wonder what's happening to the perfectly reasonable apartments. Are they being destroyed or squeezed out? Are they being held onto because they're cheaper? Did they just not exist in this spot before?

I'm no zoning expert, but nationwide there was a pretty vast expansion of single family home zoning, which heavily influenced every new build project. That placed more pressure on building big apartment complexes in the locations that would allow it. Per head, adding a pool and gym to these places is pretty cheap, and justifies charging top dollar. But it also meant that finding a cheap apartment on top of someone's garage wasn't happening. I know some places are looking at this - Oregon, for example, just changed their zoning laws on this. California looked at it but couldn't get it done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2021, 08:36:54 AM

We have residential neighborhoods near us where the occasional somewhat odd looking apartment building can be found here and there, usually dating from the 1960s.  These areas today range from pretty nice to very nice homes interspersed with low rise apartment buildings, which are pretty well maintained but look odd today.  I'm told back in the day, a lot of the houses were turned into 3-4-5 unit apartment buildings and the areas were running down fast.  It's common to see a smallish house built in ca. 1950 with a large addition out the back, formerly apartments, turned back into single family homes.  Even Ansley Park had this "malady", and now homes there are a million and up, often considerably up.

I think a sign of a deteriorating residential area is when small houses are torn down and a "sketchy" apartment building goes up.  I don't think anyone could build this sort of thing today due to zoning.  

Midtown on 8th Apartments - Atlanta, GA | Apartments.com (https://www.apartments.com/midtown-on-8th-atlanta-ga/kzqzxwb/)

Closer to us older homes are being torn down to build mid to high rise luxury apartments.  This one is going up right around the corner, two older homes were demolished recently.  One of them had been divided for offices and the other I think was abandoned.  But this area is already "urbanizing", so it's not the same issue.

(https://i.imgur.com/pb17JNG.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2021, 08:41:14 AM

This is another area around another corner where two popular restaurants are being taken out along with two abandoned houses to build two condo towers with 500 units.  None of this is intended for students of course, we're a bit far from Tech.  One restaurant has closed but no demo has begun.  There are some nice large trees we're going to lose, but the two small houses are falling down.

(https://i.imgur.com/N12ufSb.jpg)

UPDATE: Renderings revealed for two-tower Midtown proposal on Juniper | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/midtown-einsteins-joes-juniper-towers-development)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2021, 08:57:25 AM

In other news, "things" around here are pretty much "back to normal".  Traffic seems above normal, but perhaps I just don't recall how it was.  Maybe that reflects office workers returning to the office?  We've had low humidity of late which is nice, but I think that is about to change.

We walked about the area in Macon and it was stultifying, we needed a shower when we came back to the room.

I read this Delta variant may indeed be an issue at least in places with low vax numbers.  I don't think "we" will stand for shutdowns now though barring something disastrous.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on July 07, 2021, 09:17:25 AM

I know work-from-home may still be a thing, but someone is clearly going back to the office here in the Twin Cities. MnDOT's automatic counters are showing that volumes are right back to where they were pre-COVID.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2021, 09:19:05 AM

I wondered if all this new office space going up near me was going to end up vacant, but indications are that won't be an issue, folks are returning to the office.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 07, 2021, 10:24:35 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 07, 2021, 09:19:05 AM

I wondered if all this new office space going up near me was going to end up vacant, but indications are that won't be an issue, folks are returning to the office.

We're only sending back maybe 10% of our workforce into the office.  We've already sold off all of the additional land around our large campus, and several of the buildings will be sold or leased as well, although I'm not sure what the market for existing office space will actually be, going forward.

I've been wondering if some of these large office parks that are currently sitting dormant, might be rezoned and turned into loft apartments or something.  There's currently an extreme housing shortage, and an extreme office-space surplus, so that might be one way to balance the scales a bit.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 07, 2021, 10:29:03 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on July 07, 2021, 09:17:25 AM

I know work-from-home may still be a thing, but someone is clearly going back to the office here in the Twin Cities. MnDOT's automatic counters are showing that volumes are right back to where they were pre-COVID.

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 07, 2021, 09:19:05 AM

I wondered if all this new office space going up near me was going to end up vacant, but indications are that won't be an issue, folks are returning to the office.

Apparently people like people. And they want to spend time with people, rather than alone at home. Even "coworker" people. :smiley_confused1:

I don't understand it, but then not everyone are anti-social tech workers like 94 and me...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 07, 2021, 10:33:10 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 07, 2021, 10:29:03 AM

Apparently people like people. And they want to spend time with people, rather than alone at home. Even "coworker" people. :smiley_confused1:

I don't understand it, but then not everyone are anti-social tech workers like 94 and me...

word

Anti-social sounds much nicer than misanthrope. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 07, 2021, 10:39:20 AM

Quote from: utee94 on July 07, 2021, 10:33:10 AM

word

Anti-social sounds much nicer than misanthrope. :)

I prefer misanthrope, actually... Helps figure out who to stop associating with because they're dumb and don't know what it means.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2021, 11:11:30 AM

In my latter years, I would work the workdays between Christmas and NYD, largely alone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on July 07, 2021, 11:47:41 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 07, 2021, 11:11:30 AM

In my latter years, I would work the workdays between Christmas and NYD, largely alone.

Same. 

I'd go in, work perhaps 3 hours, accomplish more than in two regular work days and lead people to believe I must have been there 12+ hours every day they weren't.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 07, 2021, 11:51:22 AM

The advantage of being in a customer-facing role was that between Christmas and New Year's, absolutely nothing was happening. 

So while I was still officially working those days, it was basically "check email a few times" and that's it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 07, 2021, 12:00:25 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 07, 2021, 10:39:20 AM

I prefer misanthrope, actually... Helps figure out who to stop associating with because they're dumb and don't know what it means.

After you two bastages who looked it up unlike me! So I still don't know what it means

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 07, 2021, 12:24:47 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 07, 2021, 10:29:03 AM

Apparently people like people. And they want to spend time with people, rather than alone at home. Even "coworker" people. :smiley_confused1:

I don't understand it, but then not everyone are anti-social tech workers like 94 and me...

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 07, 2021, 11:51:22 AM

The advantage of being in a customer-facing role was that between Christmas and New Year's, absolutely nothing was happening.

So while I was still officially working those days, it was basically "check email a few times" and that's it.

Can you be anti-social but also customer facing? Seems at odds?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 07, 2021, 12:49:04 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 07, 2021, 12:24:47 PM

Can you be anti-social but also customer facing? Seems at odds?

I'm not incapable of it lol... I'm actually quite good at it, and in doses, I like it. 

But then when I'm done being "on", I'm not the type to surround myself with tons of people for emotional sustenance. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2021, 01:17:10 PM

My wife says I am friendlier with strangers than with folks we know, which I think is true, because I know I won't likely see a stranger again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2021, 06:29:17 PM

Atlanta's famed 'Disco Kroger' nears its last dance in Buckhead | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/disco-kroger-buckhead-leaving-development-shopping-center)

Krogers in the ATL often get nicknames.  One nearish us was called "Murder Kroger" back in the day, still is by many.

Bowling with frozen turkeys?  Cool.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 07, 2021, 09:16:27 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 07, 2021, 12:49:04 PM

I'm not incapable of it lol... I'm actually quite good at it, and in doses, I like it.

But then when I'm done being "on", I'm not the type to surround myself with tons of people for emotional sustenance.

That makes sense. 

Still, it feels weird to be anti-social but also be able to turn it on like that. From someone who isn't all that good at flipping said switch. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 08, 2021, 08:21:21 AM

Still working on trying to find that next vehicle. Now that we have made the decision to stay here full time, I don't think we need an SUV to travel with. Looking at the S class now. We'll see. They are not cheap.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2021, 08:30:40 AM

Ladies like SUVs because of the higher seating position.  It's as simple as that.  The wife wanted one, slowly I nudged her away from it.  I do miss the memory seating.

Just about any new car is really good these days, there are some I don't like, like most Chryslers.  You can just about select one based on paint color.

The CTS had this small hidden compartment in the dash the wife thought was marvelous, motor activated.  And she loved the color.

I get in the GTI and the seat is raised to its upper most position.  She does like the GTI a lot.  She decided against a convertible, finally.  Not many rag tops out there now.

A front wheel drive vehicle used to have inferior handling at the limit, but that has largely been, well, lessened to the point I don't find it objectionable now.  It's still there right at the limit, they've done a marvelous job on that and turbo lag.

The daughter bought a Hyundai which would not have made the list ten years ago.  They have some nice vehicles now, including Genesis.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 08, 2021, 08:36:45 AM

I would consider Genesis. My German friend has the G90 for his main car here in Florida. His other car is an AMG SL. That's a killer car.

I won't buy GM, ever, except for the company trucks, as my partners all want Chevy. I acquiesce there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2021, 09:00:16 AM

Hyundai and Kia both are making some attractive vehicles today, I'd give them a look in any niche.  Ten years back, not a chance.

SURPRISING! 2022 Genesis G70 Review - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by6drnaHeGs)

2020 Genesis G80 Review, Pricing, and Specs (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/genesis/g80-2020)

The daughter leased a Tuscon 2022 model.

They lack the cache of a Mercedes or BMW of course.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 08, 2021, 09:06:12 AM

I had no idea Hyundai had a luxury line. Learn something new every day.

A few years back, when we were thinking about getting my wife a passenger car, we were looking at the Kia Optima.  We really liked the way it looked and drove, and its top trim packages were pretty nice. 

But she decided on a Jeep instead. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2021, 09:15:18 AM

The various brands often shift about their consumer focus.  Mercedes hasn't (yet).  BMW did because most of their drivers were not driving the car any differently than they would a Honda Accord (which is a nice car IMHO).  So, BMW tuned out most of the sporty pretentions, Cadillac went the other direction, and their cars now were called "more BMW than a BMW", but without the cache.

I'm not a huge Hyundai fan particularly but I appreciate their offerings.  You get a lot of stuff for the money.

I rented a car in LV in 2005 and got "upgraded" to a top of the line Kia, it was a piece of crap.  I turned my nose up at them from that point on.

My wife had an older BMW 328i, the good one, and then a Genesis sporty coupe, G70 I think, it was pretty good, she liked it.   When it came off lease, she drove my 2005 CTS which she didn't like, the back end would break lose into understeer if the roads were wet at all.  So, I got her a 2014 CTS with AWD, that was a nice car, but she didn't like the size of it once we moved here.  That CTS however had 35 profile tires that were always getting ruined by potholes.

I dislike lower profile tires, a lot, they offer little advantage if any, just look cool, and are subject to ruination.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 08, 2021, 09:29:29 AM

I actually don't even like the look of low profile tires all that much.  I prefer seeing more sidewall.

Something like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/El7yQzI.png)


Over something like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/rJ1OiW6.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 08, 2021, 09:50:51 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 08, 2021, 09:00:16 AM

The daughter leased a Tuscon 2022 model.

As soon as I saw the grill / headlights of the new Tucson, I was out. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2021, 11:49:28 AM

It's a bit polarizing, but I'm fine with it.   I have not seen hers except a pic.

(https://i.imgur.com/EmGJc9A.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 08, 2021, 01:20:56 PM

This is gonna get ugly.

(https://i.imgur.com/pLxYTKU.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 08, 2021, 01:54:19 PM

what could go wrong?? ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 08, 2021, 01:55:48 PM

I love the idea.  I wish I could hire them to bore a chunnel from my house to the UT Campus.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 08, 2021, 02:07:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 08, 2021, 11:49:28 AM

It's a bit polarizing, but I'm fine with it.  I have not seen hers except a pic.

(https://i.imgur.com/EmGJc9A.jpg)

I hated it the first time I saw it in the commercial.

In person, it looks cheap and plasticky... My in-laws just got one as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 08, 2021, 02:40:46 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 08, 2021, 01:54:19 PM

what could go wrong?? ;)

Well, let's see. The 3' groundwater table is something. I could go on and on. This is a terrible idea.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 08, 2021, 02:44:18 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 08, 2021, 09:50:51 AM

As soon as I saw the grill / headlights of the new Tucson, I was out.

What are some other location names that will become model names?  
We've already got Montana, Santa Fe, Tucson, Sedona, Tahoe, Colorado, Durango, Tacoma,.......
.
Wasn't there a Dakota truck in the past?  Is it still a thing?
A few ideas:
the Ford Galveston - def a truck name
is there a Pueblo?
the Chevy Bahama - could be a fun convertible mini-SUV like a Sidekick
the Dodge Okefenokee - obviously an ugly car-jeep hybrid (that's oh-kee-fin-oh-kee)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 08, 2021, 02:45:59 PM

is the Chunnel connecting London & Paris still operating?

haven't heard about it much

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 08, 2021, 03:04:47 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 08, 2021, 02:45:59 PM

is the Chunnel connecting London & Paris still operating?

haven't heard about it much

whats a chunnel

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2021, 03:17:17 PM

The Chunnel is operational.  It's the tunnel under the English Channel, which the French call something else.

I've have been through it.

Chunnel, Channel tunnel and Eurotunnel (eurostar.com) (https://www.eurostar.com/us-en/travel-info/the-chunnel)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 08, 2021, 03:24:17 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 08, 2021, 03:04:47 PM

whats a chunnel

I don't know, but the one in Mobile, AL is short.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2021, 03:37:08 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 08, 2021, 02:44:18 PM

What are some other location names that will become model names? 
We've already got Montana, Santa Fe, Tucson, Sedona, Tahoe, Colorado, Durango, Tacoma,.......

There have been a lot, including Malibu, BelAir, Biscayne, Bonneville, Lemans, misprounced of course, Pontiac had a Parisienne once ...

Corvette was a British version of a destroyer escort in WW Two, which is odd because a DE was a smaller, slower, cheaper "destroyer" built mostly for escort duty and antisub work where the high speed destroyers were not as needed.  The original Corvette was more akin to that than the current version.

Cadillac is a town in Michigan of course, as is Pontiac.  Cadillac is also French originally, as is Chevrolet, which we do pronounce the French way, but not Cadillac.  The wife called hers a Caddyac.

Mercury is a location name of course, as is Saturn.  Uranus is not yet taken.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 08, 2021, 03:49:00 PM

A Jupiter could be a big-ass conversion van maybe.  Do they still produce conversion vans?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2021, 03:58:37 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 08, 2021, 02:40:46 PM

Well, let's see. The 3' groundwater table is something. I could go on and on. This is a terrible idea.

There are of course tunnels under oceans, so I imagine they have some means of managing ground water etc.

I recall touring Hoover Dam back when they had tours.  There was a lot of water seeping through the concrete (which they claimed had not completely cured yet).  Of course water will permeate through a solid at some rate and concrete is somewhat porous.

Hoover Dam is 660 feet thick at its base, 791 feet or so tall as I recall.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 08, 2021, 04:44:02 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 08, 2021, 03:58:37 PM

There are of course tunnels under oceans, so I imagine they have some means of managing ground water etc.

I recall touring Hoover Dam back when they had tours.  There was a lot of water seeping through the concrete (which they claimed had not completely cured yet).  Of course water will permeate through a solid at some rate and concrete is somewhat porous.

Hoover Dam is 660 feet thick at its base, 791 feet or so tall as I recall.

Most tunnels I know are bored through rock. This system will need to be designed to "float", I would think.

Concrete never stops curing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 08, 2021, 04:49:07 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 08, 2021, 02:45:59 PM

is the Chunnel connecting London & Paris still operating?

haven't heard about it much

For sure, it's a standard part of transportation between England and the mainland now.  You don't hear about it, because it's no longer being built.  It's just a set of train tracks now.  That go underwater.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2021, 04:56:16 PM

The coastal tunnels can be buried tubes.  The Chunnel probably goes through some limestone.

Tunnel Boring | HRBT Expansion Project (https://www.hrbtexpansion.org/tunnel-boring/default.asp)


The TBM will launch from the South Island (Norfolk side), and bore (work) at a rate of about 50 feet per day until it reaches the layer of soil known as the Yorktown layer, approximately 50 feet below the current tunnels. The TBM excavates the tunnels with a circular cross section through the soil.  The process will take more than two years. Built specifically for the HRBT Expansion Project, the TBM will be a central component of the project.  

The existing ten tunnels in Hampton Roads are immersed tubes. Advances in tunnel technology make the bored-tunnel approach desirable for the expansion project. The method has fewer environmental impacts and does not disrupt Navy, marine, or commercial traffic in the busy federal channel.

The Yorktown Formation is a mapped bedrock unit in the Coastal Plain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastal_Plain) of Maryland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland), Virginia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia), North Carolina (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Carolina) and South Carolina (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Carolina). It is overconsolidated and highly fossiliferous (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2021, 04:59:15 PM

Speaking of drilling projects...

Atlanta’s Driller Mike completes tunnel linking Bellwood Quarry to water sources - Curbed Atlanta (https://atlanta.curbed.com/2018/10/11/17963322/driller-mike-five-mile-tunnel-bellwood-quarry-hemphill-water)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 08, 2021, 05:20:33 PM

Much of that part of Florida is coastal deposits from sea sediment. Not much limestone on that coast, from what I understand, and to reach bedrock you have to go pretty deep. Florida came together as three pieces. The North was connected to the USA mainland. The middle and South slammed into each other and the North in tectonic movement.

It kinda looks like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/gaIY9Ij.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 08, 2021, 08:18:26 PM

Here's the most accurate map of FL I could create:
(https://i.imgur.com/6lvjrFL.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 08, 2021, 10:12:24 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 08, 2021, 04:49:07 PM

For sure, it's a standard part of transportation between England and the mainland now.  You don't hear about it, because it's no longer being built.  It's just a set of train tracks now.  That go underwater.

and we don't hear about it because it doesn't have alarming problems and safety issues

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2021, 08:23:57 AM

I heard about the Chunnel just yesterday ....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2021, 08:26:12 AM

I was surprised to read the Hampton tunnels are just buried tubes.  I've driven through them a few times.

I can imagine limestone also isn't much of a structural material inside which a tunnel could hold without concrete.

Engineers are pretty awesome, or at least, engineering is.  When I was a kid, I wanted to be either an architect or a civil engineer.  And guess where I wanted to go to school?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 09, 2021, 08:42:55 AM

Tech

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 09, 2021, 09:04:07 AM

Tech?  Lubbock seems a long way off for a boy from Georgia...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 09, 2021, 09:12:49 AM

Quote from: utee94 on July 09, 2021, 09:04:07 AM

Tech?  Lubbock seems a long way off for a boy from Georgia...

speaking of mascots theres a ridiculous one

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2021, 09:16:48 AM

Quote from: utee94 on July 09, 2021, 09:04:07 AM

Tech?  Lubbock seems a long way off for a boy from Georgia...

I think the top engineering schools are something like MIT, CalTech, Purdue, and Georgia Tech (which officially is GIT of course).

I started chatting with profs at UGA about where to go to grad school and most of the names were, to me, like a foreign country.  I had not traveled much back then.

Now I've been to 49 states.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2021, 09:35:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 09, 2021, 09:16:48 AM

I think the top engineering schools are something like MIT, CalTech, Purdue, and Georgia Tech (which officially is GIT of course).

I started chatting with profs at UGA about where to go to grad school and most of the names were, to me, like a foreign country.  I had not traveled much back then.

Now I've been to 49 states.

Stanford, the Cals, Washington, Texas, A&M, most of the B1G (IU does not have engineering), some of the Ivy's, Carnegie, Hopkins, the USC.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 09, 2021, 10:55:01 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 09, 2021, 09:16:48 AM

I think the top engineering schools are something like MIT, CalTech, Purdue, and Georgia Tech (which officially is GIT of course).

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2021, 09:35:14 AM

Stanford, the Cals, Washington, Texas, A&M, most of the B1G (IU does not have engineering), some of the Ivy's, Carnegie, Hopkins, the USC.

Yep... As much as I brag on Purdue, there are some very fine engineering schools in the B1G. I'd say Illinois, Michigan, and Purdue are the top of the heap (probably distinguished more based on which is stronger in each sub-domain of engineering rather than any overall differences), but even those not on that list are extremely good schools (minus IU of course).

UC-Boulder is definitely up there too. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2021, 11:29:25 AM

Isn't some Missouri U of Mining thought to  be good?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2021, 11:32:50 AM

Yes, My friend's kid just graduated there. Missouri State, it's called now. Was Mizzou-Rolla.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2021, 11:34:35 AM

Today, I did four miles, in an hour, I'm doing intervals, running pretty hard and then walking.  It's slowly coming back.

Jackson's "Foot Cavalry" in the Civil War would do 4 miles in an hour, and then rest ten minutes, and do it again.

All day.  Often barefoot.  Carrying probably 20 pounds of rifle and ammo and water.  Poorly fed.  And then do it again the next day.  It's a killing pace for a horse not in good shape.  

I briefly knew a lady who did long distance horse riding events, 100 miles.  She said she walked the horse about as often as she rode.  Every 20 miles there was a stop to take the horse's temperature and if it was over X, your were DQd.  I asked if they took her temperature and she laughed.  A human can outrun almost any other mammal, I'm talking a human in top condition versus an animal in top condtion, there is a western antelope that can sustain some ridiculous pace for hours.  In a day, a human can outdistance a horse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2021, 11:35:35 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2021, 11:32:50 AM

Yes, My friend's kid just graduated there. Missouri State, it's called now. Was Mizzou-Rolla.

Yeah, Rolla.  I heard it was pretty good, and one in St, Louis some of my friends kids attended, I forget the name.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on July 09, 2021, 11:37:19 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 09, 2021, 11:29:25 AM

Isn't some Missouri U of Mining thought to  be good?

Is that UM-Rolla?

I was also looking at the South Dakota School of Mines or Michigan Tech for engineering school. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 09, 2021, 11:50:52 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2021, 11:32:50 AM

Yes, My friend's kid just graduated there. Missouri State, it's called now. Was Mizzou-Rolla.

Missouri state is a different school. It’s in Springfield.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2021, 11:53:47 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 09, 2021, 11:50:52 AM

Missouri state is a different school. It’s in Springfield.

I was just going to correct that. Officially it is now known as the Missouri University of Science and Technology. Mizzou-Tech.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2021, 11:54:59 AM

I've always found it interesting how often a school called "X State" can be almost unknown, a flag ship, or a second up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 09, 2021, 12:01:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 09, 2021, 11:34:35 AM

A human can outrun almost any other mammal, I'm talking a human in top condition versus an animal in top condtion, there is a western antelope that can sustain some ridiculous pace for hours.  In a day, a human can outdistance a horse.

For being slow and fleshy, without sharp teeth or claws, that endurance served us well...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2021, 12:02:40 PM

A human alone unarmed is not very dangerous, but give him even a stick and he becomes quite a bit more dangerous.  Not many animals can run, climb, and swim.

We're masters of none.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2021, 12:03:01 PM

This is eye-opening. Every HS kid should know about this place.

Rankings[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Missouri_University_of_Science_and_Technology&action=edit&section=31)]
Recent school rankings include:

• Missouri S&T was ranked No. 1 for Missouri's best value college by SmartAsset (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SmartAsset) "with an average starting salary for new graduates of $67,300. Tuition at the University is $9,246 and students receive an average of $8,274 in scholarships and grants." (2020)^{[131] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_University_of_Science_and_Technology#cite_note-131)}
• Missouri S&T was ranked No. 42 in the United States for "40-year return on investment, or net present value (NPV) with an average return of $1,548,000 for a bachelor's degree recipient" by the Center on Education and the Workforce (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_on_Education_and_the_Workforce). (2019)^{[132] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_University_of_Science_and_Technology#cite_note-132)}
• Missouri S&T was ranked No. 82 among the "best graduate engineering schools" by U.S. News & World Report (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._News_%26_World_Report). (2019)^{[133] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_University_of_Science_and_Technology#cite_note-133)[134] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_University_of_Science_and_Technology#cite_note-134)}
• Missouri S&T was ranked No. 25 in the "top 25 STEM-centric schools" by Forbes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbes). (2018)^{[135] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_University_of_Science_and_Technology#cite_note-135)}
• Missouri S&T was ranked No. 3 in the "top 10 places to get an engineering degree in the U.S." by USA Today (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_Today). (2016)^{[136] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_University_of_Science_and_Technology#cite_note-136)}
• Business Insider (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Insider) ranked Missouri S&T No. 5 among the "most underrated colleges in America". (2015)^{[137] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_University_of_Science_and_Technology#cite_note-137)}

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on July 09, 2021, 12:03:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 09, 2021, 11:34:35 AM

Today, I did four miles, in an hour, I'm doing intervals, running pretty hard and then walking.  It's slowly coming back.

Jackson's "Foot Cavalry" in the Civil War would do 4 miles in an hour, and then rest ten minutes, and do it again.

All day.  Often barefoot.  Carrying probably 20 pounds of rifle and ammo and water.  Poorly fed.  And then do it again the next day.  It's a killing pace for a horse not in good shape. 

I briefly knew a lady who did long distance horse riding events, 100 miles.  She said she walked the horse about as often as she rode.  Every 20 miles there was a stop to take the horse's temperature and if it was over X, your were DQd.  I asked if they took her temperature and she laughed.  A human can outrun almost any other mammal, I'm talking a human in top condition versus an animal in top condtion, there is a western antelope that can sustain some ridiculous pace for hours.  In a day, a human can outdistance a horse.

I served with a marine who ran the bad water Uber marathon, and on the USMC dime.  He was a native American from the southwest. 

The fastest I've ever ran the 3 mile PFT is 18:32.  I am NOT a runner.  This guy? He ran it in 13:20 consistently.  I was dumbfounded to learn that was not even a regimental record... I mean, that is WORLD class.  His trick, though, is he could hold that pace or near it for hours.  Literally. 

That race was a bit over 100 miles... 110 iirc.  Over three days... you'd start with the lead over the next guy you finished with the day prior.  He didn't win it, but he placed.  I think they had that event once every 3 years. 

He was a jerk- his only real talent was running and since that was a good part of our physical expectations (we had to run a minimum of 3 miles every day, and had to be able to run the 3mile PFT in under 19:00) he caught a lot of attaboys from command.  He was left in charge after a deployment once... for two weeks he ran our asses in the ground.  When the team commander returned and found half the team on medical light duty due to shin splints, twisted knees, pulled muscles and broken freakin bones in feet he went ballistic- and rightfully so.  We ran 10 miles a day for 10 days, and at nearing HIS pace.... it didn't impact him at all, but it fuggered up most mere mortals. 

I swear we'd have beaten him to a pulp, if we could have caught him.  Seriously. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on July 09, 2021, 12:09:20 PM

From what I've been told, Chennai is the best technology school on the planet.  The Indian Institute of Technology Chennai, to be exact.  Those who apply and miss it, and then several others in India (Mumbai is close behind) "settle" for MIT.  

I am unclear if it is really that good or if it is national pride that determines that from Indian perspective, but I wager its a pretty dang good school.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 09, 2021, 12:11:47 PM

I've always hated running. A lot of it is just being big. Too much stress on my lower extremities. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2021, 12:12:55 PM

Jogging gives me the runs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2021, 12:15:10 PM

The dude who won the Peachtree Road Race ran a 4:45 mile for 6.2 miles, which of course is not world class, but still amazing. 

A mile is 1760 yards.  If you can run a 13.6 second hundred yard dash, end to end, 17.6 times, you can run a 4 minute mile.

They have over 60,000 runners in that "race", I hope to do it next year, we watched part of it, most were walking.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 09, 2021, 12:15:23 PM

Lots of good engineering schools that aren't the big names, and like anything, you get out of it, what you put into it.

The best engineer I've ever worked with came from UT-San Antonio.

The worst was from Stanford.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2021, 12:17:20 PM

I'm only running to get in shape for baseball, which at my age really really kills you if you don't work out pretty hard beforehand.  I'm going twice this year, one in November and one in January.  We play two games a day, 7 inning games, and even the 30 somethings are dragging.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on July 09, 2021, 12:21:58 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 09, 2021, 12:11:47 PM

I've always hated running. A lot of it is just being big. Too much stress on my lower extremities.

There is but one exception I know of where a really stout guy could truly run. 

He was from beaver creek Ohio.  He is now slim and trim and runs competitively... he was in the 15:30 range at 3miles, but he could also bench his body weight 20 reps.  We were required to be able to perform 20 dead hang pull-ups in a minute which included steadying your body still from any momentum (kipping)... he could hang on that bar and do it for five minutes... he came in second place for the entire company (FAST company USMC) and did something like 120 iirc without dropping off the bar.  He is the ONLY guy with that kind of build (then) that I knew capable of running in the upper class of times...

I was slow, but I could hold pace for a few hours.. I ran the marine corps marathon in '95 with a team.  We didn't do bad.

I was once outran, being passed around the 3/4 mark, by a 58 year old man... I tried my best to hold him off, and then trying to catch him? I blew out... he was the SgtMaj of the battalion.  He outran many, but nobody was challenged like me (he later told me he was using me to pace himself) and then just blown off the track like I was trying to catch him.... I never really lived that down. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2021, 12:23:51 PM

The All-Time Greatest Cheats in Motorsports History (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a33417734/greatest-racing-cheats-in-history/?utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2SE_69wBekP2hF9IvokD2csXZXmsjrcpRa9GxSBZZtJ4BEQheTJtRXTfA)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2021, 12:24:18 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 09, 2021, 12:15:23 PM

Lots of good engineering schools that aren't the big names, and like anything, you get out of it, what you put into it.

The best engineer I've ever worked with came from UT-San Antonio.

The worst was from Stanford.

Two of the very best I've worked with were products of Bradley and Wayne State.

The worst was from Notre Dame.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2021, 12:30:36 PM

I had many mediocre bosses, one was a PhD from Harvard.  He was perhaps the least interested boss I ever had, he didn't seem to care about anything.

Like most, I also had some hilariously terrible bosses.  I had two I consider "good", out of 20 something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 09, 2021, 12:56:48 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 09, 2021, 12:15:23 PM

Lots of good engineering schools that aren't the big names, and like anything, you get out of it, what you put into it.

The best engineer I've ever worked with came from UT-San Antonio.

The worst was from Stanford.

The truth of engineering schools is just like the truth of most colleges...

As a general rule, the higher rated schools can be more selective about their applicants, and thus get a higher caliber of student to start with. It's not that the quality of the education is necessarily better, or even different.

In fact, I had some times where I had professors who had written the textbook, and found that they were some of the worse professors because they [despite being engineers] thought they were superb authors and rather than teach what was in the textbook, they assumed you would understand it by virtue of exposure to their perfect writing. I had others who were worse because they were essentially research profs who picked up an undergrad class to teach because they kinda had to. I don't think either are nearly as common at "lower" schools, where they may be spending more time on actual instruction. 

So yeah, someone who got good grades in high school, did really well on standardized tests, might get through Stanford without actually becoming all that good of an engineer. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 09, 2021, 12:58:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 09, 2021, 12:30:36 PM

I had many mediocre bosses, one was a PhD from Harvard.  He was perhaps the least interested boss I ever had, he didn't seem to care about anything.

Like most, I also had some hilariously terrible bosses.  I had two I consider "good", out of 20 something.

I've been lucky, then, I guess. I've had quite a few very good bosses...

Of course, I generally find a "good" boss to be the one that generally just stays out of my way and lets me do my job, and is able to guide me or clear administrative/political roadblocks when I go to them for help. I don't get on well with micromanagers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 09, 2021, 12:58:39 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 09, 2021, 12:30:36 PM

I had many mediocre bosses, one was a PhD from Harvard.  He was perhaps the least interested boss I ever had, he didn't seem to care about anything.

Like most, I also had some hilariously terrible bosses.  I had two I consider "good", out of 20 something.

The best boss I ever had never went to college but he was the smartest man I ever knew

He was a great manager and motivator 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2021, 01:01:14 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 09, 2021, 12:56:48 PM

The truth of engineering schools is just like the truth of most colleges...

As a general rule, the higher rated schools can be more selective about their applicants, and thus get a higher caliber of student to start with. It's not that the quality of the education is necessarily better, or even different.

In fact, I had some times where I had professors who had written the textbook, and found that they were some of the worse professors because they [despite being engineers] thought they were superb authors and rather than teach what was in the textbook, they assumed you would understand it by virtue of exposure to their perfect writing. I had others who were worse because they were essentially research profs who picked up an undergrad class to teach because they kinda had to. I don't think either are nearly as common at "lower" schools, where they may be spending more time on actual instruction.

So yeah, someone who got good grades in high school, did really well on standardized tests, might get through Stanford without actually becoming all that good of an engineer.

I was pretty lucky in Madison. Sure, there were some "book guys" and resentful "research guys", but most of my professors were actually good engineers and teachers.

Many of them even held the P.E. license, which I believe is pretty rare.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2021, 01:03:29 PM

Most of mine were either entirely interested in moving up, in which case they managed upwards, and had no interest in me or mine, or were "retired in place" and simply went through motions.  Some were nice enough folks, but just not interested in whatever I was doing.

The move up types were the worst, and often they were incompetent, but worked hard at getting to the next level, and many did.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 09, 2021, 01:04:48 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 09, 2021, 12:58:39 PM

The best boss I ever had never went to college but he was the smartest man I ever knew

He was a great manager and motivator

I had a good one in that mold. He had been a prodigy when he was younger, and he was very good at spurring people to do their job. Also a hell of a guy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 09, 2021, 01:05:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 09, 2021, 11:34:35 AM

 In a day, a human can outdistance a horse.

Thanks to sweat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 09, 2021, 01:06:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2021, 01:01:14 PM

I was pretty lucky in Madison. Sure, there were some "book guys" and resentful "research guys", but most of my professors were actually good engineers and teachers.

Many of them even held the P.E. license, which I believe is pretty rare.

Researchers are always tricky. Part of the reason my math career came to an end as a particularly research heavy calculus teacher. Either that or calculus three really was mostly about infinite dimension calculus

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2021, 01:21:15 PM

We had a professor at UNC, little German guy, pretty famous, named Eliel.  He was the "Big Gun" in the department, but far.  And also consistently voted best teacher by the undergrads, who had no idea who he was.

I never had him for a class, we didn't take that many classes anyway, but he was on my committee (of five).

He didn't nail me in my orals at least.

Orals could end badly, and often did.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 09, 2021, 02:21:14 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 09, 2021, 01:06:07 PM

Researchers are always tricky. Part of the reason my math career came to an end as a particularly research heavy calculus teacher. Either that or calculus three really was mostly about infinite dimension calculus

Our TA for multivariate calc at Purdue sounded exactly like Stephen Hawking's computer when he spoke... 

We had a 12 year old in that class. He had his mom drop him off and pick him after class. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2021, 02:49:12 PM

I took all the pre-req classes at the community college I often talk about here. Small classes, great teachers.

The DiffEQ guy was out of his gourd smart but he was pretty cool.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 09, 2021, 03:21:32 PM

My DiffEQ prof was a wacky old professor type.  Really great teacher, but sometimes just forgot to come to class to teach. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 09, 2021, 04:41:22 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 09, 2021, 03:21:32 PM

My DiffEQ prof was a wacky old professor type.  Really great teacher, but sometimes just forgot to come to class to teach.

He was too busy inventing the flux capacitor 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2021, 05:12:37 PM

I took DiffEq, is was the fourth quarter of calculus, and the professor's son was in the class. 

The son was 15.

I don't remember much of anything of calculus.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2021, 05:50:30 PM

My legs are barking a bit this evening.  I'm going to treat with wine.

I've been rereading the Hornblower series.  It's 70°F right now, headed to the deck, might get chilled.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 09, 2021, 05:52:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 09, 2021, 05:50:30 PM

My legs are barking a bit this evening.  I'm going to treat with wine.

I've been rereading the Hornblower series.  It's 70°F right now, headed to the deck, might get chilled.

sounds like beer time to me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 09, 2021, 08:34:09 PM

High of 80 today, cloudy and cool breeze.  Decent rain.  Pretty much unheard of for Austin on July 9th.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on July 09, 2021, 08:48:45 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 09, 2021, 08:34:09 PM

High of 80 today, cloudy and cool breeze.  Decent rain.  Pretty much unheard of for Austin on July 9th.

It's broke 90 one time this year... that'll change, no doubt, but it's unheard of otherwise. 

Elsa passed through yesterday, and has a bit more of a blower than anyone expected.  Maybe 30mph gust and sustained 10 perhaps, but its only the second July storm I can recall.  

I'm not complaining.  Super easy year so far.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 09, 2021, 09:53:00 PM

Went running in the humidity. This was not ideal. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 09, 2021, 09:55:35 PM

sat in my recliner for a 2 hour nap today

I managed to get through it ok

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 09, 2021, 09:56:50 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on July 09, 2021, 08:48:45 PM

It's broke 90 one time this year... that'll change, no doubt, but it's unheard of otherwise.

Elsa passed through yesterday, and has a bit more of a blower than anyone expected.  Maybe 30mph gust and sustained 10 perhaps, but its only the second July storm I can recall. 

I'm not complaining.  Super easy year so far. 

Yup, I'm not sure we've broken 100 this year at all, if so it was only briefly on one day.  Normally we'd have had a dozen 100+ days by now.

I have no doubt it's coming.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2021, 07:11:45 AM

We haven't had oppressive heat here, yet.  Last year I think the highest high was 93°F, which wasn't that bad.  I usually walk with the wife and if we stay in the shade it's fine, so far.  The track where I run is about a quarter in the shade and the rest open, but it's very open so I catch a breeze usually.  And I sweat a lot, which I suppose is a good thing.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 10, 2021, 11:23:34 AM

Nice weather up here in Seattle. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 10, 2021, 11:43:34 AM

Here in Houston we are getting the Ark ready cause it seems that it has rained for 40 days in a row

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2021, 03:54:55 PM

From ESPN, I was bored today:

Top 15 Most Impactful Games On CFP Race

[th]RANK[/th] [th]GAME[/th] [th]WEEK[/th]
1	Alabama-Texas A&M	6
2	Georgia-Clemson	1
3	Oklahoma-Texas	6
4	Georgia-Florida	9
5	Iowa State-Oklahoma	12
6	Alabama-Florida	3
7	Penn State-Ohio State	12
8	Oregon-Ohio State	2
9	Notre Dame-Wisconsin	4
10	Texas-Iowa State	10
11	North Carolina-Notre Dame	9
12	Georgia-Auburn	6
13	Alabama-Miami	1
14	Notre Dame-Virginia Tech	6
15	Ohio State-Michigan	13

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 10, 2021, 11:12:40 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2021, 12:03:01 PM

This is eye-opening. Every HS kid should know about this place.

Rankings[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Missouri_University_of_Science_and_Technology&action=edit&section=31)]
Recent school rankings include:

• Missouri S&T was ranked No. 1 for Missouri's best value college by SmartAsset (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SmartAsset) "with an average starting salary for new graduates of $67,300. Tuition at the University is $9,246 and students receive an average of $8,274 in scholarships and grants." (2020)^{[131] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_University_of_Science_and_Technology#cite_note-131)}
• Missouri S&T was ranked No. 42 in the United States for "40-year return on investment, or net present value (NPV) with an average return of $1,548,000 for a bachelor's degree recipient" by the Center on Education and the Workforce (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_on_Education_and_the_Workforce). (2019)^{[132] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_University_of_Science_and_Technology#cite_note-132)}
• Missouri S&T was ranked No. 82 among the "best graduate engineering schools" by U.S. News & World Report (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._News_%26_World_Report). (2019)^{[133] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_University_of_Science_and_Technology#cite_note-133)[134] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_University_of_Science_and_Technology#cite_note-134)}
• Missouri S&T was ranked No. 25 in the "top 25 STEM-centric schools" by Forbes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbes). (2018)^{[135] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_University_of_Science_and_Technology#cite_note-135)}
• Missouri S&T was ranked No. 3 in the "top 10 places to get an engineering degree in the U.S." by USA Today (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_Today). (2016)^{[136] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_University_of_Science_and_Technology#cite_note-136)}
• Business Insider (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Insider) ranked Missouri S&T No. 5 among the "most underrated colleges in America". (2015)^{[137] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_University_of_Science_and_Technology#cite_note-137)}

I like stats like that first one becuase the selection bias is super interesting there. That's not to say Rolla doesn't have a good engineering school (it does). But it's not just a factory that makes kids into soon-to-be wealthy professionals. 

(I'm also kinda confused about the NPV math. It certianly doesn't seems to be a case of raw return on investment, but I'm sure I'm missing something)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 11, 2021, 07:20:28 AM

STEM pays.

Humanities do not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2021, 08:45:05 AM

Humanities can be fine as a degree, but it's less likely to pay out than STEM obviously.  Quite a few jobs just require a college degree, in something.

My neice got a very expensive degree in psychology from Emory and then worked at an insurance company for a while, then did the mom thing.

Most graduates with a degree in humanities do get some kind of job somewhere that is OK.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2021, 08:46:49 AM

I have on recent occasions had to call various call centers about whatever.  My memory from ca. 2000 is this was ALWAYS a disaster, I'm sure y'all had the same experience.  I recall calling our health insurance outfit about some bill they didn't cover and it was a nightmare.

These days "they" seem to have cleaned this up.  I don't know who is being hired, but they are courteous, knowledgeable, efficient, and speak English.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2021, 09:06:20 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/hW1M2ED.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 11, 2021, 09:16:02 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 11, 2021, 07:20:28 AM

STEM pays.

Humanities do not.

Pays less, for sure. 

Shoot, if Rolla didn't have a high starting salary, that would be a terrific black mark. Three in four grads are engineers or in engineering technology. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2021, 09:20:44 AM

"They" are filming the series "Ozark" around us, the past few weeks and next.  I was looking at filming one scene in the park below us, there were a ton of people involved, and a green screen, I think, we were on the opposite side of it, it might have been for lighting.  Evening shot.  We get street closures and sidewalk closures and restaurant closures, Ozark is one of the current projects.  We often seen multiple lines of heavy cables running down the sidewalks.  Power?  Dunno.

I watched a few episodes of that series a while back on the advice of a friend and got bored and quit, maybe I should gander again?

I don't know if it previously was filmed around here.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 11, 2021, 09:28:26 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 11, 2021, 09:20:44 AM

"They" are filming the series "Ozark" around us, the past few weeks and next.  I was looking at filming one scene in the park below us, there were a ton of people involved, and a green screen, I think, we were on the opposite side of it, it might have been for lighting.  Evening shot.  We get street closures and sidewalk closures and restaurant closures, Ozark is one of the current projects.  We often seen multiple lines of heavy cables running down the sidewalks.  Power?  Dunno.

I watched a few episodes of that series a while back on the advice of a friend and got bored and quit, maybe I should gander again?

I don't know if it previously was filmed around here. 

Indeed it was. Georgia's play for entertainment money has been quite a success. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2021, 09:42:56 AM

'Ozark' Season 4: Production Crew Spotted Still Filming in Georgia (cheatsheet.com) (https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/ozark-season-4-fans-spotted-production-crew-filming-georgia.html/)

A few months back, I was jogging in the park, nice day about 50°F and came across snow, a LOT of snow, in one area, melting fast.  There was a production group breaking down over there, about 5 large trucks worth and cables everywhere and tents and trailers.

It is amazing how a fairly short scene can require a relatively massive operation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 11, 2021, 09:46:55 AM

It’s only rained here in SE Texas twice this summer. Once for 27 days and then once more for 42 days. 

Seriously it’s rained almost nonstop every day between late April through this week, save for a brief respite in early June. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 11, 2021, 10:08:01 AM

I always thought it was interesting that the  tunnel boring machines met in the middle. Then they dug a little side tunnel and they put one in there, forever. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 11, 2021, 11:15:05 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 11, 2021, 08:46:49 AM

I have on recent occasions had to call various call centers about whatever.  My memory from ca. 2000 is this was ALWAYS a disaster, I'm sure y'all had the same experience.  I recall calling our health insurance outfit about some bill they didn't cover and it was a nightmare.

These days "they" seem to have cleaned this up.  I don't know who is being hired, but they are courteous, knowledgeable, efficient, and speak English.

I think more are located in the Philippines now. 
Because you mention it, I just had a nightmare issue dealing with a printer problem.  I just want to exchange it.  It's under warranty - 2, in fact.
I spent an hour and a half on and off the phone trying to get it done, to no avail.  
My call was dropped 6 times.
Every single person, for ID purposes or whatever, asked for my phone number, and not one of them called me back after the call dropped.
The biggest fault was with the Staples in-store people - I didn't have the receipt and wound up having to call them 3 separate times to get all the info needed to make any progress on the phone with the 3rd-party warranty people (which was in vain, I found out after 90 min).
The in-store people acted like they'd never done this before - had no idea what info was necessary for me to appease the warranty people.  They basically just shrugged each time I had to call back and said it's a 3rd-party company.  I said yes, but they require these 6 items off the receipt.....couldn't you maybe know that or write it down, so that you could provide them all in one go?  I don't think they cared.  
Anyway, after my call getting dropped so many times that I just started laughing out loud on the last one, the lady tells me their warranty only kicks in after the device company's warranty isn't used/valid.  
That would have been nice to know on my first call, wouldn't it?
And the device company isn't open on weekends, so I had to wait 2 days after the 90 min of useless frustration.
.
Super fun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 11, 2021, 11:54:14 AM

Anyone ever called AT&T for something?

It is almost as bad as the IRS

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 11, 2021, 12:16:33 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 11, 2021, 11:54:14 AM

Anyone ever called AT&T for something?

It is almost as bad as the IRS

Cable company. That’s a real mess

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 11, 2021, 12:34:01 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 11, 2021, 12:16:33 PM

Cable company. That’s a real mess

I use Dish and have had pretty good results

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 11, 2021, 12:48:12 PM

When I left Dish, the lady on the phone had a panic attack.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 11, 2021, 01:20:18 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 11, 2021, 12:48:12 PM

When I left Dish, the lady on the phone had a panic attack.

They all do


Its very competitive out there especially with all the cord cutters

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2021, 01:24:16 PM

My favorite is XM, which came with the car.  You call to cancel and they offer it for $5 a month instead of $20 or so.

I did that for a year, and called to cancel, one month later of course, and they offer $5 a month again.  I just cancelled it that time.

What I miss is traffic information on the GPS though, but we don't drive that much.

You also have to sit through a long spiel to cancel it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 11, 2021, 01:37:35 PM

USA Basketball loses to Nigeria in their Olympic tuneup. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 11, 2021, 01:44:03 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on July 11, 2021, 01:37:35 PM

USA Basketball loses to Nigeria in their Olympic tuneup.

we must have Lebron playing for us

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on July 11, 2021, 03:26:52 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 11, 2021, 01:24:16 PM

My favorite is XM, which came with the car.  You call to cancel and they offer it for $5 a month instead of $20 or so.

I did that for a year, and called to cancel, one month later of course, and they offer $5 a month again.  I just cancelled it that time.

What I miss is traffic information on the GPS though, but we don't drive that much.

You also have to sit through a long spiel to cancel it.

For the first time ever, I made the mistake of forgetting to call to cancel this year.  Expensive mistake

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on July 11, 2021, 03:27:24 PM

So, uh, Les Miles huh?

https://twitter.com/UnnecRoughness/status/1414277917606137865?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2021, 07:08:24 AM

13 Cool Camper-Van Conversions You Can (Probably) Afford (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/news/best-camper-van-conversions-ford-mercedes-airstream/?sm_id=organic_fb_AMAG_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR12CEoX3F2FnjvuNU7S96HVPq2wzkIhj8zb-EVwRkt4_AIZpieeqn0maPc)

When I was single and the kids had gone off to college, I mused about post retirement travel and thought about buying something of this ilk and cutting the cord, all cords, and traveling the continent.  It's not a regret now, but my wife's idea of "camping" has the word "Hilton" included.

Some creative vehicles available, but I think even more creativity is in the offing, perhaps, someday.  Folks are limited by available chassis and vans to convert.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2021, 07:15:20 AM

What’s the Difference Between a Ford F-150 and F-250, Anyway? (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/features/ford-f150-f250-difference/)

If you wondered.

2019 Ford F-150 vs. 2019 F-250: What are the differences? (greatlakesfordofmuskegon.net) (https://www.greatlakesfordofmuskegon.net/research/ford-f-150-vs-f-250.htm)

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.9)]The Ford F-250 has a frame built with 10 cross members for increased stiffness, but both models feature an aluminum-alloy body that prevents rust and corrosion. You'll notice the F-250 is larger than the F-150, with a bigger front end and higher clearance. The table below details exterior dimensions for both models.[/color]

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.9)]The first article didn't mention frame differences.  [/color]

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 12, 2021, 07:21:41 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 11, 2021, 01:20:18 PM

They all do


Its very competitive out there especially with all the cord cutters

I cut the cord mostly because of the nonsense in dealing with those people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2021, 08:15:38 AM

Quote from: ELA on July 11, 2021, 03:27:24 PM

So, uh, Les Miles huh?

https://twitter.com/UnnecRoughness/status/1414277917606137865?s=20

Sounds like he fits in well there. He and Self share ideas, and such.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 12, 2021, 08:35:59 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2021, 08:15:38 AM

Sounds like he fits in well there. He and Self share ideas, and such.

Les got fired, mostly due to what he did while at LSU. It's good to see he was up to no good at Kansas, too. Lance Leipold took over.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2021, 08:37:26 AM

Photos and key takeaways from Politan Row, Midtown's classy food hall | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/midtown-food-hall-colony-square-politan-row)

Last night around 7 PM I suggested we stroll up to the new food hall and try it out, figuring it would be almost empty.  I checked to ensure they were open.  The place was packed, there was a long line in front of the taco place, and lines for most of the others, the Vietnamese place had no line so we ordered a bowl.  The GM there told me they were out of various things because demand had been so high.

This is in an old office complex that has had a make over, a nice one, of late.  I was astonished how busy it was figuring it would mostly cater to office workers for lunch.  I guess it's the novelty of the thing.

My wife didn't care for her bowl, mine was "OK", but I think the Ramen place is much better, but they are not in such a prominent location.  The Korean fried chicken place is my current favorite, I fear they aare struggling, again, on a side street.  Location ....

The Korean place has mac and cheese with bacon and Kimchee in it, yum.  Shawn, one of the owners, tells me fried chicken is huge in most of Korea.  He was born in Koreatown in LA and went to Tech as a student, was in a bad car accident and now is in a wheelchair, really nice fellow.  I admire folks with the chutzpa to start their own business like this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2021, 08:38:55 AM

I tend to like "colorful" coaches like Les, and the Pirate, and a handful of others, Spurrier was the best.  Smart is entirely boring and predictable, as is Saban.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2021, 10:34:35 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on July 12, 2021, 08:35:59 AM

Les got fired, mostly due to what he did while at LSU. It's good to see he was up to no good at Kansas, too. Lance Leipold took over.

Lance is clean, and a very good coach.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on July 12, 2021, 02:29:40 PM

It's the hottest 84 degrees I can recall.. humidity is a force multiplier.... 

I recall being in doha Qatar and seeing 140* on a digital thermo, and reconciled against 5 others... that was kill you hot, but the humidity was burned off.  When the temp dropped to a cool 100 at night, though, the fog would be so thick you couldn't see 30 feet in front of yourself.  

I dont want to ask for it "really", but, I wager from 80 to 90 or 95 and relative to that temp the humidity at 90+% is maybe the most overbearing point of trying to work outside.  When I came back from doha to the states, in August, and having to run a crew to install sensors outside I was asked if I wanted to do it at night... I laughed and said "uh, I think we're acclimated"... turns out, nope... the southeast and its temps+humidity is just plain brutal.... its not as brutal as south east Asia, but..... its close.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 12, 2021, 02:35:23 PM

Yeah, it's 115 out here in Phx, but when I was helping my dad move some tools out of his shed to his new house, we both got wobbly....and it was 'only' 85.  But it rained everyday and in that shed it was another level.  I'd rather work in 115 out west than that.  
He was embarrassed that he had to sit down, but he has bad knees and just turned 66.  We took a break and sat in his truck with the AC on full blast.  That helped.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on July 12, 2021, 03:12:24 PM

I was the plate umpire for a winner-to-state softball game back in June with an air temp of 100 and a dew point not far from that. It was the hardest game I've ever done. I felt like a fighter going over to his ice bucket after every half-inning.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2021, 03:14:19 PM

in the great white north in June

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 12, 2021, 04:06:56 PM

It's 82 fiery fookin' degrees here,any more days like this I'm moving to my old Canadian fishing haunts. Thankfully I just cleaned the coils on the outside AC unit and she's blowing a comfortable 74

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 12, 2021, 04:54:12 PM

I haven't seen this noted anywhere, but it's quite a statistical event:
(https://i.imgur.com/ObnsPC5.jpg)
Spencer Sanders had exactly the same attempts and completions the past 2 seasons.  It's nuts.
Along the lines of the A's Khris Davis hitting .247 four straight seasons.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 12, 2021, 05:14:25 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 12, 2021, 04:54:12 PM

I haven't seen this noted anywhere, but it's quite a statistical event:
[img width=500 height=65.9959]https://i.imgur.com/ObnsPC5.jpg[/img]
Spencer Sanders had exactly the same attempts and completions the past 2 seasons.  It's nuts.
Along the lines of the A's Khris Davis hitting .247 four straight seasons. 

climate change

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 12, 2021, 08:28:59 PM

John Lowenstein for Cleveland hit 242 for 3 straight seasons

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2021, 08:45:16 PM

(https://untappd.akamaized.net/site/beer_logos_hd/beer-25914_16dce_hd.jpeg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 13, 2021, 08:25:44 AM

Just curious FF why are you randomly posting beer Signs,did you miss the beer cart again?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 13, 2021, 08:29:32 AM

in honor of John Lowenstein, of course

gotta be the same family tree

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2021, 09:25:00 AM

Atlanta: The city that keeps changing America | CNN Travel (https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/atlanta-city-changing-america-cmd/index.html)

A weird article in my view, omits some rather more important items of information, but whatever.

And the best fried chicken is NOT at Mary Mac's, which is walking distance from us.  It's not bad, and it's a sort of landmark, but it's far from the best.

I'd vote for the Korean place near us, Mukja.

Not nearly ths points I would make pro and con for the city, but whatever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 13, 2021, 09:25:40 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 13, 2021, 08:29:32 AM

in honor of John Lowenstein, of course

gotta be the same family tree

is that from the "Suds R Us" dynasty

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 13, 2021, 09:27:00 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 13, 2021, 09:25:00 AM

Atlanta: The city that keeps changing America | CNN Travel (https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/atlanta-city-changing-america-cmd/index.html)

A weird article in my view, omits some rather more important items of information, but whatever.

And the best fried chicken is NOT at Mary Mac's, which is walking distance from us.  It's not bad, and it's a sort of landmark, but it's far from the best.

I'd vote for the Korean place near us, Mukja.

Not nearly ths points I would make pro and con for the city, but whatever.

thanks for the update

I'll update the file

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 13, 2021, 09:44:32 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 13, 2021, 09:25:00 AM

Atlanta: The city that keeps changing America | CNN Travel (https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/atlanta-city-changing-america-cmd/index.html)

A weird article in my view, omits some rather more important items of information, but whatever.

And the best fried chicken is NOT at Mary Mac's, which is walking distance from us.  It's not bad, and it's a sort of landmark, but it's far from the best.

I'd vote for the Korean place near us, Mukja.

Not nearly ths points I would make pro and con for the city, but whatever.

just someone's opinion
I'd rather trust your opinion

most folks don't want my opinion

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 13, 2021, 10:44:24 AM

Best fried chicken I've ever had was at Puckett's in Franklin TN. There is one in Nash Vegas too, but always packed and hard to get in.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 13, 2021, 10:53:27 AM

best I ever had came out of my Grandma's cast iron skillet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 13, 2021, 10:55:43 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 13, 2021, 10:53:27 AM

best I ever had came out of my Grandma's cast iron skillet

Yup, best I've ever had was out of my grandma's pressure cooker.  Just unbelievably tender and juicy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2021, 11:57:21 AM

The best I ever had was at Greenwoods in Roswell north of Atlanta, but he closed his place.  The Korean place is excellent as is hattie B's Nashville style.  That's a small chain of course but they do it right, and are packed.

Shawn at Mukja told me fried chicken is in fact really big in Korea.  He uses really high quality chicken and ultra hot grease and great breading.  A quarter bird and beer is $15.  He has Korean beers in cans, I tried one called "Cloud", it was pretty good.

The ramen place has karagee chicken which is superb also, Silverlake Ramen, which also is a small chain.  The Asians are stealing our chicken.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 13, 2021, 11:58:36 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 13, 2021, 10:44:24 AM

Best fried chicken I've ever had was at Puckett's in Franklin TN. There is one in Nash Vegas too, but always packed and hard to get in.

So it's a chain? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 13, 2021, 12:01:43 PM

A mini chain, I guess.

(https://i.imgur.com/42ZrkJa.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 13, 2021, 12:03:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 13, 2021, 09:25:00 AM

Atlanta: The city that keeps changing America | CNN Travel (https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/atlanta-city-changing-america-cmd/index.html)

A weird article in my view, omits some rather more important items of information, but whatever.

And the best fried chicken is NOT at Mary Mac's, which is walking distance from us.  It's not bad, and it's a sort of landmark, but it's far from the best.

I'd vote for the Korean place near us, Mukja.

Not nearly ths points I would make pro and con for the city, but whatever.

This is probably just my perception, but for some reason it seems like there are a large number of landmark type restaurants in Atlanta that aren’t very good, and that reputation seams to really over shadow tons of really good restaurants in Atlanta. I’m sure that happens everywhere, but it just seem incredibly true in that city.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2021, 12:11:45 PM

Mary Mac's is a decent place, it's just not "the best".  The Varsity is the place that is way over rated.  One of the top rated places in town is called "The Gunshow", I've tried several times to get a reservation.  I have not been to any of the top ten on this list.

75 Best Restaurants in Atlanta - Atlanta Magazine (https://www.atlantamagazine.com/50bestrestaurants/)

We go to this place pretty often for lunch after a Costco run.  It's set in a garden right on the river and the food is good.  Our problem is we can walk to probably 100 different places and it's hard to think about driving somewhere.

(https://i.imgur.com/TS51rvn.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2021, 12:35:12 PM

Where would you take visitors to dine in your area that is charactertic of the general area and very good?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2021, 12:53:07 PM

2 new Varsity locations announced for Georgia – WSB-TV Channel 2 - Atlanta (wsbtv.com) (https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/2-new-varsity-locations-announced-georgia/5UEIKM2FABBZHG7YUK6G3COLXQ/?fbclid=IwAR2fNaB4L1TjhERjQmtekKw7mCP1gkJ_ul0Ch3R3OPeebcgcn2p8TUxHhyY)

Ha, just saw this.

(https://i.imgur.com/LwM4K9K.png)++(https://i.imgur.com/q6bLZoF.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 13, 2021, 12:56:10 PM

Archie's Waeside

I talk about it often

since 1949 - James Beard award

https://www.archieswaeside.com/home (https://www.archieswaeside.com/home)

best steaks I've ever experienced

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2021, 01:04:26 PM

Their prices are great, anything of that ilk would be 30-100% higher here.  Dry aged porterhouse at STK near us is $110.

Bones doesn't even list their prices.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 13, 2021, 01:35:44 PM

they always have 2 or 3 steak options that are "off the menu"  60+ day dry aged prime that are large

I had the 26 oz porterhouse a week ago - had to be one of the top 10 steaks in my lifetime

simply amazing

the Benny Weiker @ 51.99
16-18 oz. of well aged tenderloin

is their signature steak, used to be "off the menu" but is on the menu after COVID

I'm not a tenderloin guy, but it's something to try

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 13, 2021, 02:07:08 PM

On the Varsity:  a chili-dog joint has a ceiling.  LOL

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2021, 05:34:17 PM

If I get out that way I would give them a try.  Steak places here are insane on pricing.  STK had a pretty good happy hour gig, other than that, you're looking at $250 a couple, and I imagine Bones is pricier.

I had a wine locker at Eddie Merlots that really helped keep prices down.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 13, 2021, 05:57:03 PM

$150 a couple should do it here

they have a decent wine selection for this part of the country.  They have a couple Cali selections bottled with the Archie's label.  I haven't tried them.

They've added the CAYMUS SCHOONER MALBEC, but probably not my suggestion.

I'd guess you could find something to wash down the meal

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2021, 06:10:31 PM

Looked at their wine list, it's not what I'd call special, but sufficient.  A lot of upscale places like to feature high end wine for status, and of course folks on expense accounts will buy them.  

We went to a Costco liquor store today, I heard the Kirkland vodka is really good.  They had some Scotch that was $8,000 a bottle, the cashier said they had something that was double that once, he said folks bought them as collector's items.

One great thing about France is the wines are not marked up much at all in good restaurants.  In the US, they are at least double retail, and triple what they pay for them.

I'm not one to buy some high priced wine because I want to impress anyone.  I was looking at the STK wine list, they have Decoy cab, which is $17 in Costco, for $60.  Insignia is $450, that is really good wine, but it's $200 in Costco.  Chandon Brut Rose, holy cow, $105 per bottle, it's $18 in Costco.  I am disliking that place.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 13, 2021, 06:12:38 PM

Going to OBX on Saturday. I've never been (at least not since I was a little kid). Any tips? Things I should see or restaurants I should get food from. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 13, 2021, 07:03:43 PM

Next weekend we're going to Mastro's Ocean Club to celebrate my promotion.

I generally don't go to many steakhouses. I make a mean steak at home, and when you add up the cost of the steak, the sides, the wine/beer/etc, it doesn't normally justify it. Adding in the booze, we're usually at >>>$200 for a couple at Mastro's, and that's trying to keep our wine selection on the cheap side of the spectrum. Whereas even with steak from our specialty butcher and pulling out a bottle of our really nice wine, we're around $100. You can easily spend a LOT more money too. I had a work dinner there once (splurge from our distributor due to the ridiculous margin they made on a specific sale) where there were 6 of us and the bill was $1200... 

I may go counter to trend and get a seafood dish, because they have amazing seafood, but I might just go ahead and get their ribeye as usual. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 13, 2021, 07:07:01 PM

I'd have the seafood at a place named the Ocean club that close to the coast

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 13, 2021, 08:24:03 PM

If you guys are paying $150-250 for a steak dinner, I'll go ahead and start a gofundme and you can just spread the wealth this way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 13, 2021, 08:41:11 PM

Cooks and servers and busboys at fine dining establishments gotta eat, too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 13, 2021, 09:21:09 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 13, 2021, 08:24:03 PM

If you guys are paying $150-250 for a steak dinner, I'll go ahead and start a gofundme and you can just spread the wealth this way.

someone else is buying if dinner and drinks for 2 are $150 - in my world

my daughter took me there for Father's day - she's a server at a decent place.
We each had the Archie’s Special Extra Thick = 19.99 (every steak they serve is dry aged) a helluva sirloin
The small onion rings (fabulous) =  6.99
no wine but a couple beers for me.

probably around $70

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 13, 2021, 10:31:43 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p526x296/202598845_3103787116521919_2329677505182142087_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ReSY6B5BgJYAX-BgR_d&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=69bbe28f8e31c2380503f21406bc291f&oe=60F2544D)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 14, 2021, 12:25:24 AM

Do any of those college rankings focus on return on investment?  I see it by major, but not by school overall.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on July 14, 2021, 01:47:36 AM

That seems like an impossible study which would have a lot of noise and not be very useful.   Alum participation in salary surveys is notoriously low and probably not exactly representative. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 14, 2021, 07:02:40 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 14, 2021, 12:25:24 AM

Do any of those college rankings focus on return on investment?  I see it by major, but not by school overall. 

Other than possibly opening a few doors (think ND, SC, Ivy's), where you went to school matters little after you start working. It's mostly all about the major in the private sector.

I'd hire someone from any school* right now if I could find them.


* Except from ND, SC, Ivy's.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 14, 2021, 07:38:37 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 14, 2021, 07:02:40 AM

Other than possibly opening a few doors (think ND, SC, Ivy's), where you went to school matters little after you start working. It's mostly all about the major in the private sector.

I'd hire someone from any school* right now if I could find them.


* Except from ND, SC, Ivy's.

Now, now, the University of South Carolina has a pretty decent engineering school as I understand it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 14, 2021, 07:51:00 AM

I had one from there, a long time ago. She was very good. Moved back home after about 3 years. Tough to lose her.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2021, 08:17:47 AM

I agree the name on your diploma opens some doors a bit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 14, 2021, 08:37:24 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 13, 2021, 01:35:44 PM

I had the 26 oz porterhouse a week ago - had to be one of the top 10 steaks in my lifetime

simply amazing

How much is that compared to say beef ribs?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2021, 09:17:05 AM

I enjoy a BBQ beef rib more than a ribeye cause the fat renders and has better eatability

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2021, 09:18:53 AM

the most incompetent engineer I ever worked with had a degree from ND

yup, the guy that hired him was impressed by the ND

fools, the both of them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 14, 2021, 09:40:22 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 14, 2021, 09:18:53 AM

the most incompetent engineer I ever worked with had a degree from ND

yup, the guy that hired him was impressed by the ND

fools, the both of them

Its funny you should mention ND

I had a guy working under me one time that graduated from ND and he was the most arrogant person Ive ever been around
One day I had to tell him it was my way or the highway and he chose the later which I was all too willing to help him with

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2021, 09:44:58 AM

I was surprised back in the day at the disparity in abilities and educational knowledge from various universities.  I had thought if you came from a good one you'd likely be pretty good, and vice versa.  While there may have been a slight correlation, it wasn't by any means determinative.

I hired a technician once from Northwestern STATE.  Our director thought he came from NW, I let him think that.  He was a very good employee.  He enjoyed lab work.

I hired another guy who had a degree in archeology from the U. of Ohio.  He was also very good, show him something once and he had it.  And I had a tech dumped on me by another group from Xavier (Cin) who was the only person I ever had to fire for incompetence.  He was beyond inept, he would do ridiculous dangerous things in the lab.  I finally had to sit him down in his office doing nothing for the weeks to get the paperwork done.

You good people from all over, and bad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2021, 09:59:49 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 14, 2021, 09:40:22 AM

Its funny you should mention ND

I had a guy working under me one time that graduated from ND and he was the most arrogant person Ive ever been around
One day I had to tell him it was my way or the highway and he chose the later which I was all too willing to help him with

most arrogant Engineer I worked with was from UT-Austin

no surprise to most

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 14, 2021, 10:03:13 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 14, 2021, 09:59:49 AM

most arrogant Engineer I worked with was from UT-Austin

no surprise to most

well he had a good reason

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2021, 10:03:25 AM

Frank Solich retires for health reasons after 16 seasons as head coach at Ohio.

the winningest coach in MAC history and the fourth winningest active coach in all of college football,

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2021, 10:06:42 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 14, 2021, 10:03:13 AM

well he had a good reason

he actually wasn't the most arrogant, but I couldn't resist

he was the most entitled.  Would sit in his cube with his boots on his desk and tell folks that he wasn't about to work real hard, because he had worked hard in college and had arrived.  Had earned the title and money, and was now going to coast through his career.  He was about 25.  Not sure how that worked out for him.

but, he wasn't lying.  I worked circles around him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 14, 2021, 11:36:31 AM

Sounds like a douche.

Most engineers from UT-Austin aren't white guys that wear boots, most are from Asian countries and are very hard workers. Of course I say that as a Texas engineer who is a white guy that wears boots.  But I promise I never put them on my desk.  That would be rude.

Anyway, it's kind of surprising that y'all mention Notre Dame as carrying weight as a degree.  I guess it's regional, because that is not at all the case down here in Texico.  A degree from ND wouldn't open any more doors here than would a degree from Ohio State or Minnesota or Virginia Tech or something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2021, 11:46:20 AM

he wasn't a bad guy to have a beer with after work, but being pared with him on a project meant you'd be doing all the work which is obviously a douche move.

I never worked on one of his projects so my opinion of him wasn't terrible.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2021, 12:45:49 PM

I googled best grad schools in chemistry, and the ranking is pretty close to that for "best schools" period.

Best Chemistry Programs - Top Science Schools - US News Rankings (https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/chemistry-rankings)

I don't attach much faith to these rankings but I'd guess the ones at the top are in fact quite good.

If you rank according to subdiscipline, you can get quite a different result.  Purdue for example is #1 for analytical chemistry.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 14, 2021, 12:50:50 PM

UW has always fared well in the Chemistry stuff. ChemE too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2021, 04:27:47 PM

The wife told me she "heard" that Kirkland vodka is really good.  So we drove to the Costco not so near us that sells liquor and obtained same.  It's $18 for a 1.5 L, Grey Goose is well into the $40s, $45 I think.  So, I break it out last night, shake it with ice and pour it for us, and she thought it was in fact quite good, and she won't touch anything but GG.  I like GG but find Tito's is good, I'd rate Kirkland better than Tito's, and it's cheaper, here.

It's very smooth, no evidence for cogeners I could detect, a hint of a fruity taste, clean finish.

I also got some Kirkland Tennessee bourbon and Scotch to try one of these days.

Kirkland now has box chardonnay as well, 3 L for $13, it's "OK", quaffable but not transcendent.  Their California cab in a box is amazing.  They also have Kirkland Sonoma chardonnay in bottles for $13 and it is quite good at that price, nice balance.

I love Costco, own some stock, which has done well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 14, 2021, 04:36:05 PM

Kirkland has both American and French vodka... Both are reportedly wonderful. Which did you end up with?

I don't drink much vodka, but I think we have bottles of both (I bought one when I hadn't realized we'd just bought one lol). But I'm not a vodka connoisseur, and only really drink it in a bloody mary, and the wife only in a Moscow mule, so we're not sipping vodka over ice.  

I'll have to look for the boxed Chardonnay though... My wife liked the boxed Pinot Grigio, but she's more of a Chardonnay girl. Is it buttery or clean?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2021, 04:56:57 PM

I prefer Tito's to Grey Goose

no Costcos near here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2021, 04:57:55 PM

Our vodka doesn't have French on it that I saw.

The box chardonnay is a bit flabby in my view, not overly buttery, but not crisp either.  Their Sonoma "Signature" is much better, at 3x the price though.  Both are $13 here, but the box has 3 L and the bottle is the standard 750.  If I tasted this blind, I'd be impressed if it was less than $30.

(https://i.imgur.com/UubXrUz.png)

The only wine I find I dislike, aside from cheap wine, is NZ sauvignon blanc, and I like good sau blanc a lot.  It's good with steak oddly enough.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 14, 2021, 05:07:25 PM

Vodka is an intentionally neutral spirit.  I find vodka snobbery to be... curious.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2021, 05:22:27 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 14, 2021, 05:07:25 PM

Vodka is an intentionally neutral spirit.  I find vodka snobbery to be... curious.

I once did until a friend had me do a blind taste test.  Cheap vodka is awful.

The Kirkland is cheaper than Tito's and arguably is better.  Works for me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 14, 2021, 05:30:00 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 14, 2021, 05:22:27 PM

I once did until a friend had me do a blind taste test.  Cheap vodka is awful.

The Kirkland is cheaper than Tito's and arguably is better.  Works for me.

When Tito's first started sponsoring our tailgate party, I did a bunch of blind taste tests alongside their reps, that involved Tito's and many of the other top international brands including Grey Goose, Smirnoff, Absolut, and Skyy (which was a very popular American brand at the time).

The vast majority of people couldn't tell any noticeable difference.  And that's when it's neat.  Chill it and/or mix it, and whatever mild flavor differences there are, become completely undetectable.





Edit: I'll add, that super-cheap stuff like Popov in a plastic 1.75 handle, were not part of the blind taste test. Tito had zero interest in associating with such  a brand.  So I suppose it's possible that THAT stuff tastes noticeably different, and noticeably worse.  I really couldn't say, I'm pretty sure I haven't had that stuff since college and even then, it was just as a cheap booze additive to trashcan punch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 14, 2021, 06:10:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 14, 2021, 05:22:27 PM

I once did until a friend had me do a blind taste test.  Cheap vodka is awful.

The Kirkland is cheaper than Tito's and arguably is better.  Works for me.

In my mind, to put it in proper terms for a EE like 94...

Wine/Beer/Whiskey is analog. Signal quality is important, and is on a quality spectrum. Every one is different. There's a difference between an 89 point wine and a 92 point wine. There are all sorts of gradations in the product, and those gradations can be discerned.

Vodka is digital. You either get a reliable signal that you can decode, or you get garbage. Above a certain quality level, there's basically no difference. Below that certain quality level... You don't want to drink it whether it's straight or mixed. Either way is a hangover waiting to happen. 

The goal is of course a neutral spirit. Some don't meet the goal lol...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 14, 2021, 06:16:36 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 14, 2021, 06:10:27 PM

In my mind, to put it in proper terms for a EE like 94...

Wine/Beer/Whiskey is analog. Signal quality is important, and is on a quality spectrum. Every one is different. There's a difference between an 89 point wine and a 92 point wine. There are all sorts of gradations in the product, and those gradations can be discerned.

Vodka is digital. You either get a reliable signal that you can decode, or you get garbage. Above a certain quality level, there's basically no difference. Below that certain quality level... You don't want to drink it whether it's straight or mixed. Either way is a hangover waiting to happen.

The goal is of course a neutral spirit. Some don't meet the goal lol...

Ha!

OK, I'll buy that.  

And like I said, we didn't have any Popov or similar, in the mix.  

But even stated in your terms, it makes any snobbery going on between devotees of Grey Goose or advocates of Absolut, a little bit silly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 14, 2021, 06:17:50 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 14, 2021, 06:16:36 PM

But even stated in your terms, it makes any snobbery going on between devotees of Grey Goose or advocates of Absolut, a little bit silly.

I concur.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 14, 2021, 06:21:16 PM

And then of course there's the flavored vodkas, of which gin is perhaps the very first one ever made. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 14, 2021, 08:07:42 PM

What is the most unusual method by which you've consumed a drink? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 14, 2021, 08:12:07 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on July 14, 2021, 08:07:42 PM

What is the most unusual method by which you've consumed a drink?

Unconscious and upside down. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 14, 2021, 08:18:08 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 14, 2021, 06:21:16 PM

And then of course there's the flavored vodkas, of which gin is perhaps the very first one ever made. :)

Was birthday cake-flavored 2nd?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 14, 2021, 08:18:38 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on July 14, 2021, 08:12:07 PM

Unconscious and upside down.

I remember at one frat party folks squirting wine from a goat skin bag about 10 feet to try and hit my mouth

one of the worst hangovers of my career the next day

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2021, 11:29:03 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on July 14, 2021, 08:07:42 PM

What is the most unusual method by which you've consumed a drink?

I haven't slurped it off someone's ass crack, but I haven't had the right opportunity to this point

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 15, 2021, 07:01:12 AM

I've been drinking Deep Eddy, Round Rock and Prairie these days. Can't find the latter two down here. Yet.

I still go for Tito's when it's on sale, but the above three are just as good or better. Round Rock is probably the better of the lot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 15, 2021, 09:15:12 AM

Round Rock

Texas?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 15, 2021, 09:30:58 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 14, 2021, 08:18:08 PM

Was birthday cake-flavored 2nd?

Sounds about right!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 15, 2021, 09:36:02 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 15, 2021, 07:01:12 AM

I've been drinking Deep Eddy, Round Rock and Prairie these days. Can't find the latter two down here. Yet.

I still go for Tito's when it's on sale, but the above three are just as good or better. Round Rock is probably the better of the lot.

Quote from: FearlessF on July 15, 2021, 09:15:12 AM

Round Rock

Texas?

Yeah, after Tito's had so much success, several more distilleries popped up around Austin and Texas.  Deep Eddy is the name of an Austin landmark-- a very old, well-fed swimming pool just outside of downtown Austin, the oldest swimming pool in Texas-- and their distillery is in South Austin.  Round Rock is, I guess, named after the town.  But it looks like their operations are out of Houston.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 15, 2021, 09:55:10 AM

popped up all around the country

a brewery out in the middle of nowhere, Broken Bow, Nebraska, started a distillery in Lincoln using Nebraska corn.

Produce a smooth slightly sweet vodka and a white whiskey.

I really like their Jalapeno vodka for bloody Marys 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 15, 2021, 01:12:57 PM

I was shocked I could tell the differences in vodkas.  I didn't know which was which, but I could tell Belvedere was different from GG.  I think they had Smirnoff in there and I could tell it wasn't as good, a slight off flavor.

I suppose it comes down to quality of distillation, how they take cuts and how often they distill.  It would be interesting to try a barrel aged vodka, I bet you could get close to bourbon/whisk(e)y.

The Kirkland Tennessee bourbon is only "OK", not as good as Woodford IMHO.

Could I assert that every distilled beverage is simply flavored vodka?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 15, 2021, 01:32:47 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 15, 2021, 01:12:57 PM

I was shocked I could tell the differences in vodkas.  I didn't know which was which, but I could tell Belvedere was different from GG.  I think they had Smirnoff in there and I could tell it wasn't as good, a slight off flavor.

I suppose it comes down to quality of distillation, how they take cuts and how often they distill.  It would be interesting to try a barrel aged vodka, I bet you could get close to bourbon/whisk(e)y.

The Kirkland Tennessee bourbon is only "OK", not as good as Woodford IMHO.

Could I assert that every distilled beverage is simply flavored vodka? 

They start out that way, but then the remainder of the process determines what it can be called.  Whiskeys aren't vodka, because of the aging in wooden barrels.  Even a white whiskey technically has to touch a wooden barrel, although they don't spend any time in there, so it's basically a vodka.

I might argue the reverse in fact, that a barrel-aged grain-based-vodka is actually not a vodka at all, rather it's a whiskey. 

Of course there are some particulars about proofing.  Vodka must be distilled to at least 95%, while whiskey must be distilled to less than 95%, before both are cut to their final proof, which for both I believe, can be no less than 40%.

Tequilas blancas could be considered vodka I suppose, but aged tequilas like reposado or anejo would not be.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 15, 2021, 01:47:40 PM

I am thinking of aging as a variation of flavoring, ergo, it's all vodka, brown liquors are merely aged vodkas.  I know the mash bill differs a lot, but does it matter really?

You distill to pretty high proof, 140 to 190 depending, and then dilute and add "flavorings", like barrel aging.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 15, 2021, 01:54:03 PM

Why hasn’t it been blistering hot this summer in metro Atlanta? – WSB-TV Channel 2 - Atlanta (wsbtv.com) (https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/why-hasnt-it-been-blistering-hot-this-summer-metro-atlanta/KOSAZJ7DWRFKNM5CREHDHBVA5A/?fbclid=IwAR02VPQpFWpUuzcuTiDrOx1YjADPt59h0inFkUWL57oxmKf0lf2pis4G1MU)

We have yet to hit 90°F, so far, this summer.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on July 15, 2021, 02:13:12 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on July 14, 2021, 08:07:42 PM

What is the most unusual method by which you've consumed a drink?

(https://media.giphy.com/media/1jkUS1uAAp8Z0jgYtJ/giphy.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 15, 2021, 02:15:05 PM

sideshow spirits in Lincoln makes a white whiskey and a brown vodka aged in new charred barrels

they also have a apple brandy from fresh pressed cider

since my daughter works there and get's an employee discount, I have a bottle of each of everything they distill.

They are all very good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 15, 2021, 02:15:34 PM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on July 15, 2021, 02:13:12 PM

(https://media.giphy.com/media/1jkUS1uAAp8Z0jgYtJ/giphy.gif)

nothing to be proud of, Son

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on July 15, 2021, 02:32:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 15, 2021, 01:47:40 PM

I am thinking of aging as a variation of flavoring, ergo, it's all vodka, brown liquors are merely aged vodkas.  I know the mash bill differs a lot, but does it matter really?

You distill to pretty high proof, 140 to 190 depending, and then dilute and add "flavorings", like barrel aging.

i ain't no expert, but I do run a still from time to time... 

it's ALL ethanol... no matter how it started, the ethanol is what is extracted.  

extracting it pure is impossible- but i've made some brandy that was nearing 160proof before.  

the 'trick' is the tailings- the last to come off and when the temperature starts to rise above 190* and under 210* or so... the 'high spirits' (ergo the acetone, methanol, and a host of others) will start to disperse around 147* or so- you DON'T want those.. the good stuff (ethanol) starts around 174*... making the cut is tricky... luckily the anecdote for high spirits poisoning is ethanol.... so.... you want as much of that as yo can get even if it means you are mixing more 'tailings' than you should.  The tailings is where the flavor is- it's what makes rum taste like rum, whiskey-whiskey, scotch scotch, brandy brandy.... it's where the distinction comes in.  tailings by themselves are horrid- but cut just right with tailings and then some good water (to bring the proof down to where you need/want it) and they set the stage for the artistry of distilling to make an appearance.  

most commercial vodka is nothing but a sugar wash, nowadays.  just sugar, water, and a bit of yeast to kick things off... 

by the way- it's ALL about yeast for the flavor... some distillers (especially old world distillers) have yeasts (replicated naturally) well over 200 years old... they keep it alive and working as they've found the perfect balance.  I've used distillers yeast (red dot) which promises high yield- and it does- but the flavor is horrible of anything produced with a sharp acidic flavor... bread yeast takes longer but is more neutral... the best is natural yeasts like the old timers discovered in hollers deep in the woods of Appalachia- that thrive there due to canopy of hardwood forests disallowing much sunlight and moisture just shy of moist if that makes any sense... those natural yeasts were as important to kentucky bourbons and tennessee whiskeys as the water they drew from mountain streams... it's just less celebrated.  the act of 'sour mash' is re-using the mash for subsequent runs... the flavor is enhanced, true, but the yeasts are also different in the sour mash than they would have been in the newly brewed mash.  

i'd like to get ahold of @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) 's brews.... it's in essence the same thing... ferment up some recipe and instead of reaching the point the yeast dies and then adding a jolt of sugar to capture the bubblies, you let it flatten completely.... THAT, is what us'n hillbilly's call a 'wash'. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 15, 2021, 02:56:33 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 15, 2021, 01:47:40 PM

I am thinking of aging as a variation of flavoring, ergo, it's all vodka, brown liquors are merely aged vodkas.  I know the mash bill differs a lot, but does it matter really?

You distill to pretty high proof, 140 to 190 depending, and then dilute and add "flavorings", like barrel aging.

Sure, you can call it whatever you like.

Those idiots on the West Coast created a category of beer called Black IPA.  Black India Pale Ale.  Black.  Pale.  Ale.  So there you have it.

Quote from: FearlessF on July 15, 2021, 02:15:05 PM

sideshow spirits in Lincoln makes a white whiskey and a brown vodka aged in new charred barrels

they also have a apple brandy from fresh pressed cider

since my daughter works there and get's an employee discount, I have a bottle of each of everything they distill.

They are all very good

White whiskey is vodka.

Brown aged vodka is whiskey


(if it's distilled from grain).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 15, 2021, 03:13:59 PM

distilled from Nebraska corn

everyone has their own ways of naming or labeling things for many reasons

I assume marketing in this case

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 15, 2021, 03:39:50 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 15, 2021, 03:13:59 PM

distilled from Nebraska corn

everyone has their own ways of naming or labeling things for many reasons

I assume marketing in this case

Yes, it's definitely marketing.

"White Whiskey" is a fancy new marketing word for... well, vodka.

"Aged Vodka" is a new word for... well, whiskey.

Unless the aged vodka is being distilled from potatoes or grapes or watermelon or something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 15, 2021, 03:43:38 PM

For those of us who remember . . . . .

These great questions and answers are from the days when “Hollywood Squares” game show responses were spontaneous, not scripted, as they are now.

Q. Do female frogs croak?

A. Paul Lynde: If you hold their little heads under water long enough.



Q. If you're going to make a parachute jump, at least how high should you be?

A. Charley Weaver: Three days of steady drinking should do it.



Q. True or False, a pea can last as long as 5,000 years...

A. George Gobel: Boy, it sure seems that way sometimes.



Q . Paul, what is a good reason for pounding meat?

A. Paul Lynde: Loneliness! (The audience laughed so long and so hard it took up almost 15 minutes of the show!)



Q. You've been having trouble going to sleep. Are you probably a man or a woman?

A. Don Knotts: That's what's been keeping me awake.



Q. According to Cosmopolitan, if you meet a stranger at a party and you think that he is attractive, is it okay to come out and ask him if he's married?

A. Rose Marie: No, wait until morning.



Q. Which of your five senses tends to diminish as you get older?

A. Charley Weaver: My sense of decency..



Q. What are 'Do It,' 'I Can Help,' and 'I Can't Get Enough'?

A. George Gobel: I don't know, but it's coming from the next apartment.



Q. As you grow older, do you tend to gesture more or less with your hands while talking?

A. Rose Marie: You ask me one more growing old question Peter, and I'll give you a gesture you'll never forget.



Q. Paul, why do Hell's Angels wear leather?

A. Paul Lynde: Because chiffon wrinkles too easily.



Q. Charley, you've just decided to grow strawberries. Are you going to get any during the first year?

A, Charley Weaver: Of course not, I'm too busy growing strawberries.



Q. In bowling, what's a perfect score?

A. Rose Marie: Ralph, the pin boy.



Q. During a tornado, are you safer in the bedroom or in the closet?

A. Rose Marie: Unfortunately Peter, I'm always safe in the bedroom.



Q. Can boys join the Camp Fire Girls?

A. Marty Allen: Only after lights out.



Q. When you pat a dog on its head he will wag his tail. What will a goose do?

A. Paul Lynde: Make him bark?



Q. If you were pregnant for two years, what would you give birth to?

A. Paul Lynde: Whatever it is, it would never be afraid of the dark..



Q. According to Ann Landers, is there anything wrong with getting into the habit of kissing a lot of people?

A. Charley Weaver: It got me out of the army.




Q. Back in the old days, when Great Grandpa put horseradish on his head, what was he trying to do?

A. George Gobel: Get it in his mouth.



Q. Jackie Gleason recently revealed that he firmly believes in them and has actually seen them on at least two occasions. What are they?

A. Charley Weaver: His feet.


Q. According to Ann Landers, what are two things you should never do in bed?

A. Paul Lynde: Point and laugh

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 15, 2021, 04:35:57 PM

You can get to virtually pure ethanol using benzene and a Dean-Stark trap distillation.  The funny thing is exposing that to air rather quickly results in its becoming 190 proof.  It is hygroscopic.  

You boil ethanol and water and benzene and condense the vapors as shown, and that falls into the trap which separates into water and benzene, which separate, and you drain the water and let'er rip a while.  It's an excellent technnique for drying the S out of anything.  Water and benzene boil off together as an azeotrope.

(https://i.imgur.com/96JJgiy.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 15, 2021, 04:36:30 PM

Black pale ale reminded me of jumbo shrimp.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 15, 2021, 05:45:08 PM

black pale ale
jumbo shrimp
smart aggie
etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 15, 2021, 05:52:53 PM

Modest Longhorn

Smart Gator

Oxy Moron

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 15, 2021, 06:06:42 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on July 15, 2021, 02:32:24 PM

i'd like to get ahold of @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) 's brews.... it's in essence the same thing... ferment up some recipe and instead of reaching the point the yeast dies and then adding a jolt of sugar to capture the bubblies, you let it flatten completely.... THAT, is what us'n hillbilly's call a 'wash'.

Most beer isn't strong enough to kill the yeast... Typical ale yeasts will often continue living and fermenting up until about 11-12 ABV. Some specialty yeasts (Belgians, etc) can get up a little higher. And a few brewers (like Sam Adams, Brewdog, and a few others with extreme ABV) have selected yeasts generation after generation that can get above 20% naturally fermented. 

If you add the sugar to get the bubblies, it won't get bubbly unless the yeast is still alive. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 15, 2021, 06:09:23 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 15, 2021, 02:56:33 PM

Those idiots on the West Coast created a category of beer called Black IPA.  Black India Pale Ale.  Black.  Pale.  Ale.  So there you have it.

Even worse... That style of beer is a play on the American IPA (distinguished from the original English IPA). 

So it's an American Black India Pale Ale. 

The folks up in the Portland area wanted to rename it a Cascadian Dark Ale because American Black IPA made such little sense. But they're weird. It's Portland, after all. That name never caught on outside of the PacNW. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 15, 2021, 06:23:29 PM

Just call it American Black Ale.  Given the breweries that are making it, everyone already knows it will inevitably be a brutally over-hopped bitter bomb.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 15, 2021, 10:53:24 PM

just call it very hoppy and I won't order it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2021, 08:16:08 AM

Quote from: utee94 on July 15, 2021, 06:23:29 PM

Just call it American Black Ale.  Given the breweries that are making it, everyone already knows it will inevitably be a brutally over-hopped bitter bomb.

I gave a wine talk in France and stated that the American motto is:

"If some is good, more is better."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on July 16, 2021, 08:29:18 AM

Has anyone noticed that the "craft" IPAs kind of all taste the same?  The beer cooler at my nearby convenience store is full of them.  The labels are artsy and hard to read.  I recently spent quite some time looking for one that wasn't an IPA and failed.  Walked out with a six pack of 16 oz. PBR.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 16, 2021, 08:47:15 AM

good choice

American lager

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 16, 2021, 09:04:09 AM

Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby kicked off Big 12 media days on Wednesday with a reminder that college football will still be dealing with the COVID-19 pandemic this fall, and he made a strong push for players to be vaccinated.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2021, 09:05:03 AM

I find many/most are simply over  hopped, so they taste the same because the hops dominate any flavor.  Some are actually pretty good, the ones with balance.

The same is true with wine, often folks overdo some attribute for effect and the wines end up out of balance and are not interesting, or good.  Think about those overly buttery chardonnays or zinfandels with 18% alcohol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 16, 2021, 09:09:18 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 11, 2021, 07:20:28 AM

STEM pays.

Humanities do not.

Community college is your friend.


Need for a career shift leads graduate to Gateway | Sponsored | kenoshanews.com


G (https://www.kenoshanews.com/paid-post/sponsored/need-for-a-career-shift-leads-graduate-to-gateway/article_4b7c6b09-cd71-5cc5-ad2a-82d840dae7d5.html)ot a 4 year degree in theater. Now works in IT after getting 2 year degree from local CC. Cool beans. Should have gone there in the first place!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2021, 09:16:43 AM

We in the US have a belief that "everyone" should attend college, unlike Europe.  We send well over half of HS grads to college.

Maybe this started with the GI Bill, this expectation.

So, we ended up with this circular spiraling combination of funding, debt, higher fees, larger universities, etc. and a lowered product.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 16, 2021, 09:33:52 AM

Also, other countries have universal health care and less wage disparity, so they're isn't as much pressure to be more qualified for various jobs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 16, 2021, 09:38:20 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 16, 2021, 09:09:18 AM

Community college is your friend.


Need for a career shift leads graduate to Gateway | Sponsored | kenoshanews.com


G (https://www.kenoshanews.com/paid-post/sponsored/need-for-a-career-shift-leads-graduate-to-gateway/article_4b7c6b09-cd71-5cc5-ad2a-82d840dae7d5.html)ot a 4 year degree in theater. Now works in IT after getting 2 year degree from local CC. Cool beans. Should have gone there in the first place!!

it's not Broadway, but it pays the bills

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 16, 2021, 10:34:02 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 16, 2021, 08:16:08 AM

I gave a wine talk in France and stated that the American motto is:

"If some is good, more is better."

Nothing exceeds like excess.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 16, 2021, 10:36:08 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 16, 2021, 09:38:20 AM

it's not Broadway, but it pays the bills

Throughout grade school, junior high, and high school, I was in theater, band, and choir.  I dreamt of acting and singing on Broadway, and I also loved theater production and thought I'd make a good director.

But, I also like having money.  So, EE it was.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 16, 2021, 11:25:03 AM

In my high school years I looked up the best paying professions and the length of time to achieve it

accounting won

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2021, 11:25:22 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on July 16, 2021, 09:33:52 AM

Also, other countries have universal health care and less wage disparity, so they're isn't as much pressure to be more qualified for various jobs.

I would think there should be pressure to be qualified for one's job, no?

The wife has scathing things to say about French "workers".  So does my French buddy, who I haven't seen since last January.

We chat a bit by email, he's not much for email.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 16, 2021, 11:27:11 AM

Ive said this before

France is the only place I know of where the banks go on strike

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 16, 2021, 11:36:57 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 16, 2021, 11:27:11 AM

Ive said this before

France is the only place I know of where the banks go on strike

Oh they strike in Italy too.  Greece,  Belgium, Spain.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2021, 11:41:10 AM

The last tme we were in Paris we entered south of the Seine and our hotel was north of it, and every bridge was closed by police because of a protest.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 16, 2021, 11:54:44 AM

sounds like a wonderful place

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2021, 11:59:05 AM

It was quite annoying, but the wife was driving.  She kept looking for another bridge, and  traffic of course was barely moving.  They finally finished protesting around 4 PM and opened the bridges and we made the hotel.  

The other fun thing was the garbage workers were on strike and the city had garbage everywhere.

January 2020, before "it" happened.  It was also cold and dismal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 16, 2021, 12:03:53 PM

Paris is great.  You just gotta be relaxed and not expect too much to run on schedule.

It ain't Germany, you know.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2021, 12:06:26 PM

I tell people it's my least favorite French city.  That gets a rise out of folks.

I've spent some time now in every major French city, and quite a few lesser ones.  I think Lyon is pretty nice.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 16, 2021, 12:44:39 PM

Paris is a big city.  I like it for similar reasons to why I like NYC or London.  They're also all a huge pain in the ass.

I spent the most time in Nantes, which I enjoyed.  Nice was touristy and expensive even by French standards.  Aix en Provence and Bordeaux are among my favorites.  I've never been to Lyon but I'll put it on the list.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 16, 2021, 12:47:51 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 16, 2021, 11:25:03 AM

In my high school years I looked up the best paying professions and the length of time to achieve it

accounting won

I've failed math so many times I can't count

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 16, 2021, 12:50:41 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 16, 2021, 11:27:11 AM

Ive said this before

France is the only place I know of where the banks go on strike

Hmm,no interest loans - cool 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2021, 01:13:09 PM

After we moved here, the wife and I set out one morning to get our DLs moved to this state.  I had gone on line and found what we needed, it was a fair bit.  With considerable trepidation and expecting the day to be shot, we ventured downtown to the DMV, parked, went inside, took a number, and sat down to wait.  It was not overly crowded, there were maybe 30 people waiting, but they had 6 or 7 windows open and were processing people rather quickly.  We were called up after about 20 minutes and they processed us quickly and we walked out with our new DLs, 30 minutes max.  The wife was stunned, I was surprised.

She said that would have taken all day in France, and we'd probably have had to come back another time.  

I was witness to a house sale in France, it is arduous, takes months, there is no single closing, it has step after step after step.  And you get taxed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 16, 2021, 09:16:08 PM

the bigger the city, the bigger the pain in the ass

I'm from a small town -  500 people

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 16, 2021, 10:33:01 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 16, 2021, 09:16:08 PM

the bigger the city, the bigger the pain in the ass

I'm from a small town -  500 people

I come from a town so small the city limit signs were on the same post

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 16, 2021, 11:14:15 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 16, 2021, 09:16:08 PM

the bigger the city, the bigger the pain in the ass

I'm from a small town -  500 people

Yeah, sure, maybe.

But also, the bigger the city, the bigger the opportunities for entertainment.  And fun. 

I've had a lot of fun in some big cities.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 17, 2021, 07:00:10 AM

I prefer "small" big cities now. No need for anything NYC, Chicago, etc.

I like Amsterdam, Florence, places like that. Under 1 million is good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2021, 08:40:12 AM

Atlanta has only a bit over half a million now.  Seems bigger.  This is a nice shot of my 'hood someone else took with a drone I suspect.  Our building is quite hidden.  The building explosion had slowed during the pandemic and now it back in full force again.  I try and keep up with new proposals, they come every few days.  Downtown is off to the right (south) and Buckhead is upper left in the distance, it's about 6-7 miles away.

(https://i.imgur.com/SptblTi.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 17, 2021, 09:33:32 AM

Quote from: utee94 on July 16, 2021, 11:14:15 PM

Yeah, sure, maybe.

But also, the bigger the city, the bigger the opportunities for entertainment.  And fun.

I've had a lot of fun in some big cities.

nice places to visit for some entertainment, wouldn't want to live there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2021, 09:35:33 AM

2021 Ford F-150 vs. Ram 1500 and Chevrolet Silverado 1500: Back at It Again (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2021-ford-f150-vs-chevrolet-silverado-ram-1500-pickup-truck-comparison-test-review/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR04UQzSkrt7fe_PzE_kekSlcFrNINXQggfGQMriMHQqqm5eCJxweqoVFTY)

I am amazed how much these trucks cost.  They liked the Dodge the best.

Chevy shipped us a 2021 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 done up in RST trim (https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2021-chevrolet-silverado-1500-4x4-rst-6-2l-first-test/) with the Redline Edition appearance package, with red paint on the wheels that looks suspiciously like a Dodge logo. It employs a 420-hp 6.2-liter V-8, and although we're amazed to say this about a vehicle with an as-tested price of $59,980, it's the most affordable truck here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 17, 2021, 09:39:07 AM

I paid $36K for my 2015 1500 Silverado - 12K under sticker

more bells and whistles than needed

I just wanted the leather seats and the 20 inch wheels

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 17, 2021, 09:41:21 AM

I like that the current Ram truck commercial shows a shot of Louie Mueller Barbecue

(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/58949801e58c62bf3713b669/1486138403103-AWS6R8B3I40B0V56RLKE/4.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 17, 2021, 11:32:17 AM

That one's classic.  I still make it over to Taylor for lunch maybe once per year.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 17, 2021, 05:55:04 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 16, 2021, 11:25:22 AM

I would think there should be pressure to be qualified for one's job, no?

Not if you don't want everyone trying to go to college to become more qualified

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2021, 06:39:15 PM

I think in any eventuality, I'd want everyone to be qualified for their job.  To think otherwise, is, to me, nonsensical.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 18, 2021, 07:10:06 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 17, 2021, 06:39:15 PM

I think in any eventuality, I'd want everyone to be qualified for their job.  To think otherwise, is, to me, nonsensical.

I think forcing people to take out massive loans as teenagers to make themselves more qualified is nonsensical, but here we are.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 18, 2021, 08:31:28 AM

for the vast majority of jobs, college isn't much help in earning qualification

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 18, 2021, 08:33:52 AM

https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/college-football-most-controversial-games-usc-Notre-Dame-bush-push-oklahoma-Oregon-onside-kick-Miami-Ohio-State-pass-interference-167564698/#167564698_10 (https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/college-football-most-controversial-games-usc-Notre-Dame-bush-push-oklahoma-Oregon-onside-kick-Miami-Ohio-State-pass-interference-167564698/#167564698_10)

Ten of college football's most controversial games since 2000

many Big Ten teams involved

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 18, 2021, 10:12:37 AM

   (https://i.imgur.com/YTCEeK8.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/ACTzAm1.png)


 (https://i.imgur.com/UVa8Xm7.png)  (https://i.imgur.com/pfPu3so.png)  (https://i.imgur.com/XGPseUy.png) 







   


 (https://i.imgur.com/Z4ylQzv.png)


(https://i.imgur.com/s2wEDpN.png)    

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 18, 2021, 10:23:39 AM

College was never intended to be a vocational program and aside from a few disciplines like engineering, it works poorly as such.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 18, 2021, 10:28:40 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on July 18, 2021, 07:10:06 AM

I think forcing people to take out massive loans as teenagers to make themselves more qualified is nonsensical, but here we are.

Business is the most popular degree right now. Lots of people learned "business" by starting one. My opinion is that I do not see value here, unless there is something specific, like a BS in Accounting, for example.

Second is health professions. This is great.

Third is social science. This is not great.

Fourth is engineering. Should be higher.

Fifth is biosciences. This is good.

6. Psychology
7. Communication and Journalism
8. Visual and Performing Arts
9. Education
10. Computer Science

Of those listed, which majors are best positioned to pay off loans?

Of those listed, which are "forced" upon teenagers to enter?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 18, 2021, 11:01:02 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on July 18, 2021, 07:10:06 AM

I think forcing people to take out massive loans as teenagers to make themselves more qualified is nonsensical, but here we are.

Say what?  Nobody is forcing anybody to do anything. The very fact that so many people are willingly signing up for these loans is part of what’s driving college tuition up so high to start with. 

The world needs more craftsmen, not more zoologists, marine biologists, journalism majors, and English majors. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 18, 2021, 11:05:52 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 18, 2021, 10:28:40 AM

Business is the most popular degree right now. Lots of people learned "business" by starting one. My opinion is that I do not see value here, unless there is something specific, like a BS in Accounting, for example.

Second is health professions. This is great.

Third is social science. This is not great.

Fourth is engineering. Should be higher.

Fifth is biosciences. This is good.

6. Psychology
7. Communication and Journalism
8. Visual and Performing Arts
9. Education
10. Computer Science

Of those listed, which majors are best positioned to pay off loans?

Of those listed, which are "forced" upon teenagers to enter?

When you go to buy a house the lending institution looks at your ability to pay back the loan

why dont lending institutions do that with going to college

majors in things like art, music and literature should not be areas where students can get a loan unless

their major includes teaching that subject

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2021, 11:15:02 AM

I think being qualified for one's job is an obviously desirable thing.  The alternative can be bad.  I said nothing about anyone being forced to attend college.

Folks lend to college students BECAUSE the loan cannnot be forgiven, generally, through bankruptcy.  That makes it more reliable as a loan than a regular signature unsecured loan.  These are in fact unsecured loans.  Do away with the bankruptcy provision and the viggorish would be vigorous.

No bank would make an unsecured loan to a 19 year sociology major if government were not involved.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on July 18, 2021, 11:19:01 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 18, 2021, 11:15:02 AM

No bank would make an unsecured loan to a 19 year sociology major if government were not involved.

This

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 18, 2021, 11:20:56 AM

maybe student loans should only be available from the colleges themselves

let the college that charges an arm and a leg for majors that wont be worth while suffer

from their own actions

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2021, 11:22:02 AM

Let the market set the rates.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 18, 2021, 12:35:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 18, 2021, 11:22:02 AM

Let the market set the rates.

This right here.


Less government in my free market please.  Thanks in advance.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 18, 2021, 02:42:15 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on July 18, 2021, 07:10:06 AM

I think forcing people to take out massive loans as teenagers to make themselves more qualified is nonsensical, but here we are.

To piggyback on this idea, but cut away from student loans.........isn't forcing young people to use credit to build credit nonsensical as well?  What sense does it make for someone to be able to go through life without borrowing money to be penalized for that with a low credit score?  
.
And I believe Obama did away with it, but for how many decades were there people handing out credit cards to 18 year olds, just for a free t-shirt?  Talk about predatory loans....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 18, 2021, 02:44:10 PM

You guys are basically wanting to setup a framework to guarantee an elite ruling class.....while probably being against such a thing.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 18, 2021, 03:02:39 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 18, 2021, 02:42:15 PM

To piggyback on this idea, but cut away from student loans.........isn't forcing young people to use credit to build credit nonsensical as well?  What sense does it make for someone to be able to go through life without borrowing money to be penalized for that with a low credit score? 
.
And I believe Obama did away with it, but for how many decades were there people handing out credit cards to 18 year olds, just for a free t-shirt?  Talk about predatory loans....

Huh?   Nobody’s forcing anybody to do anything. 
and you earn credit. You start off with small things and build it up. I know millionaires who don’t have any credit because they never needed it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on July 18, 2021, 03:22:22 PM

My dad went with me to sign up for a credit card with a $500 max before I left for college.  That's smart, but also not everyone has the benefit of a dad who is (a) present to do that; (b) aware of the benefit of getting your 18 year old a credit card; and (c) aware that you should probably shop around for one with a low limit.

But the flip side is my first card with a limit that was above what I could handle, I was irresponsible with; and then worked two jobs for a year to pay off.

The Venn diagram of people with parents who can guide them correctly, and then also demand their children be held responsible for their mistakes is very small though,

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 18, 2021, 03:44:58 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 18, 2021, 02:42:15 PM

To piggyback on this idea, but cut away from student loans.........isn't forcing young people to use credit to build credit nonsensical as well?  What sense does it make for someone to be able to go through life without borrowing money to be penalized for that with a low credit score? 
.
And I believe Obama did away with it, but for how many decades were there people handing out credit cards to 18 year olds, just for a free t-shirt?  Talk about predatory loans....

if you dont have a track record of any credit its pretty hard to give you a high credit score

The only time a credit score is important is when you are seeking credit

no credit history tells a lender nothing about how you would meet future credit obligations

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2021, 04:37:37 PM

You can of course build credit by paying your electric and water bills on time each month.  And you can get a credit card with a low limit just about anywhere.  No fees, cash back in many cases, use it and build credit.  If you aspire to owning a home someday, it will be important.

And of course getting a credit card is not somehow forcing anyone to accept a loan, that premise is absurd.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2021, 05:23:31 PM

If you combine autonomous with inductive charging and "car trains", you get a rather interesting future of intercity transportation where high speed rail would be largely superfluous.

It also preserves the personal vehicle.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on July 18, 2021, 07:45:23 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 18, 2021, 04:37:37 PM

You can of course build credit by paying your electric and water bills on time each month. 

And cell phone and (in my day) cable, but now streaming services.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 18, 2021, 08:01:52 PM

Quote from: ELA on July 18, 2021, 07:45:23 PM

And cell phone and (in my day) cable, but now streaming services.

when you gas up your car

how many folks out there use a credit card to buy gas

I spent many years of my life that buying gas was the only thing I put on a credit card

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 18, 2021, 08:17:45 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 18, 2021, 08:01:52 PM

when you gas up your car

how many folks out there use a credit card to buy gas

I spent many years of my life that buying gas was the only thing I put on a credit card

Seems like a bad way to build credit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 18, 2021, 08:45:16 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 18, 2021, 04:37:37 PM

You can of course build credit by paying your electric and water bills on time each month.  And you can get a credit card with a low limit just about anywhere.  No fees, cash back in many cases, use it and build credit.  If you aspire to owning a home someday, it will be important.

And of course getting a credit card is not somehow forcing anyone to accept a loan, that premise is absurd.

The limit on a credit card is a virtual loan.  You may or may not be able to pay it back.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 18, 2021, 08:46:07 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 18, 2021, 08:17:45 PM

Seems like a bad way to build credit.

It's a great method to get into the habit of using it and it's not so much money that you can't pay it off immediately.  It's sort of forced consistency.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 18, 2021, 08:51:29 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 18, 2021, 08:17:45 PM

Seems like a bad way to build credit.

splain yourself


longhorn not understand

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 18, 2021, 08:56:56 PM

when discover card first came out and the gas stations started accepting it I thought is was the best thing since sliced bread

I mean Im going to buy gas anyway and now through discover I get cash back

it was like someone just handing me money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 18, 2021, 09:06:36 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 18, 2021, 08:51:29 PM

splain yourself


longhorn not understand

I mean, if you’re only running gas on it, that’s just not very much money. And it means you’re not using much credit. Like, I’m not gonna build good credit if I spend many years with ELA‘s $500 a month card.

(it was mostly tongue-in-cheek)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 18, 2021, 09:10:00 PM

banks/money lenders are evil and the summabitches that check credit scores

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 18, 2021, 09:13:42 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 18, 2021, 09:06:36 PM

I mean, if you’re only running gas on it, that’s just not very much money. And it means you’re not using much credit. Like, I’m not gonna build good credit if I spend many years with ELA‘s $500 a month card.

(it was mostly tongue-in-cheek)

I was paying a monthly mortgage plus various utilities

my credit rating was high enough for my needs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 18, 2021, 09:27:51 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 18, 2021, 09:13:42 PM

I was paying a monthly mortgage plus various utilities

my credit rating was high enough for my needs

Again, it was mostly tongue-in-cheek. Just being sassy.

but now I am a little bit curious. What were the steps you took to qualify for your mortgage? Where did you just kind of suck it up and a high rate when that started?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 18, 2021, 10:07:46 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 18, 2021, 09:27:51 PM

Again, it was mostly tongue-in-cheek. Just being sassy.

but now I am a little bit curious. What were the steps you took to qualify for your mortgage? Where did you just kind of suck it up and a high rate when that started?

With interest rates being what they are, credit is somewhat overrated. You don't want too low of credit to not qualify for a loan, but not a ton of difference after that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on July 18, 2021, 10:23:17 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 18, 2021, 09:06:36 PM

I mean, if you’re only running gas on it, that’s just not very much money. And it means you’re not using much credit. Like, I’m not gonna build good credit if I spend many years with ELA‘s $500 a month card.

(it was mostly tongue-in-cheek)

I had that credit card; and put all of our utilities in my name, for 5 years, and that did the trick

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 18, 2021, 10:45:39 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 18, 2021, 09:27:51 PM

Again, it was mostly tongue-in-cheek. Just being sassy.

but now I am a little bit curious. What were the steps you took to qualify for your mortgage? Where did you just kind of suck it up and a high rate when that started?

It was our first house back in 1975

interest rates were much higher then

all I did was fill out an application they checked my salary and approved the loan

if I remember right the 1800 sq foot house cost $ 40,000 financed for 30 years at 6 or 7 %

The house was 2 years old

I sold that house 15 years later for $80,000 so I did ok

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 18, 2021, 10:50:44 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 18, 2021, 04:37:37 PM

You can of course build credit by paying your electric and water bills on time each month.  And you can get a credit card with a low limit just about anywhere.  No fees, cash back in many cases, use it and build credit.  If you aspire to owning a home someday, it will be important.

And of course getting a credit card is not somehow forcing anyone to accept a loan, that premise is absurd.

So I think the bolded part is somewhat interesting. Whether or not it's true, there is a sense that to take an important life step (kinda), and have access to one of the most bedrock wealth-building paths in our society, you have to tangle with a financial instrument that is designed to pillage the finances of those who use it. 

The fact is, many of the convenient features credit cards once offered are now available with much less risk (well, give or take the fact it's build on the credit card infrastructure, which gets philosophical). In our modern society, if you actually need that kind of credit, you almost assuredly shouldn't be using it. If you get caught in either a moment of irresponsibility, calamity or ignorance of how the instrument functions, they'll ruin your finances. And the companies that operate them are literally built on doing that. 

This isn't to say that there isn't a need for some way to prove financial responsibly. But we don't need to attach any moral rectitude to the credit card industry. Those things are designed at their base to drain people. They might make it a game with rewards, or get cast as part of building a stable financial life, but their bread is buttered by putting people in bad spots and squeezing them. 

(I should say this, I had a really low debt/low trackable credit lifestyle through much of my 20s. I used a debit card instead of a credit card. I lived in places with roommates or consolidated bills, so I was rarely on power or cable bills. I paid rent every month, though roommate stuff was often not documented. And in truth, I lived a very stable financial life, and people still explained, “No, BAB, you need to borrow someone’s money, for the credit score and your future.” Think about how wild that is. I had a friend who bought a car from a family member. You can handle that all sorts of ways. Instead, they went to a bank and got a loan, with monthly payments and everything. Why? “To build my credit.” We’re somehow attaching moral good to going into debt.

Also, for fun, your credit score is five parts
Payment history - What we’ve talked here, 35 percent
Amount owed/credit utilization - If I’m running $2,000 a month on my credit card, this looks better if I have $10,000 in limit instead of $4,000, even if I’m paying more for the former number, 30 percent
Length of credit history - This encourages you to start going into debt early and to keep different lines active
Credit mix - This just means I need to borrow from a few different sets of folks 10 percent
New credit - This dings you for borrowing from a bunch of sources all at ones, 10 percent)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 18, 2021, 10:54:43 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 18, 2021, 10:45:39 PM

It was our first house back in 1975

interest rates were much higher then

all I did was fill out an application they checked my salary and approved the loan

if I remember right the 1800 sq foot house cost $ 40,000 financed for 30 years at 6 or 7 %

The house was 2 years old

I want to go to this financial world. (Well, I don't know where the house was. I suppose I could get something close to that, inflation adjusted, where I live, though we have a somewhat depressed housing market)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 18, 2021, 10:55:29 PM

Quote from: ELA on July 18, 2021, 10:23:17 PM

I had that credit card; and put all of our utilities in my name, for 5 years, and that did the trick

How do you mean did the trick? Like, got you in a good spot for a mortgage or just got you on the right foot?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 18, 2021, 11:05:35 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 18, 2021, 10:54:43 PM

I want to go to this financial world. (Well, I don't know where the house was. I suppose I could get something close to that, inflation adjusted, where I live, though we have a somewhat depressed housing market)

It would be much harder in California

Unless youre trying to buy in Austin Texas has a very good housing market

Austin home prices are much higher then other Texas cities

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on July 18, 2021, 11:07:49 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 18, 2021, 10:55:29 PM

How do you mean did the trick? Like, got you in a good spot for a mortgage or just got you on the right foot?

My first mortgage was based on my credit score from that card and paying my utilities.  My $150K+ student debt didn't matter a bit

I sued that card for gas and groceries, and nothing else.  I made sure not to even have it in my wallet if I went to the bar, because I was prone to open tabs when drunk.  I took out an ATM cash allowance of $30 per week, and all of my spending money came from that $30

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 18, 2021, 11:16:46 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 18, 2021, 11:05:35 PM

It would be much harder in California

Unless youre trying to buy in Austin Texas has a very good housing market

Austin home prices are much higher then other Texas cities

I don't live in Ca. Though I'm about to move to a major metro. 

Based on my math, that's about $202,000 in today's dollars. I think there are relatively few prosperous places with some level of convenience where I could get 1,800 nice square feet for that price. Granted I don't know where in Texas your situation was at. Looking right now, Houston has 88 such listings on Zillow at the moment. Dallas has three, some in rough shape. All interesting in one way or another. 

My understanding of housing markets is a bit warped because of where I'm from and living either in depressed former factory towns or my current town, which is kind of an odd spot for that. In the large city I'm about to move to, there are almost no houses in that category, save for one that needs to be repaired after a fire. A few in the town I'm in now, almost none in areas I'd feel great about.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 18, 2021, 11:39:35 PM

I currently live in Northwest Houston and I guarantee for $200,000 you can buy a very good 1800 square foot house here

Obviously the closer you get to downtown the more expensive the house will be

Im guessing my distance to downtown is 30 miles

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 19, 2021, 02:47:49 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 18, 2021, 10:50:44 PM

Also, for fun, your credit score is five parts
Payment history - What we’ve talked here, 35 percent
Amount owed/credit utilization - If I’m running $2,000 a month on my credit card, this looks better if I have $10,000 in limit instead of $4,000, even if I’m paying more for the former number, 30 percent
Length of credit history - This encourages you to start going into debt early and to keep different lines active
Credit mix - This just means I need to borrow from a few different sets of folks 10 percent
New credit - This dings you for borrowing from a bunch of sources all at ones, 10 percent)

My favorite is credit checks not being a plus.....no one told me that.  So I'm shopping for a car at a bunch of dealerships and I wanted to find out what I'd actually be paying and had them all do credit checks to get to that point.  No clue why that's a problem, but it dinged me.  
.
It's stupid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 19, 2021, 06:43:19 AM

Credit scores are very misunderstood including here on this board, but that’s not surprising.   They are somewhat complex algorithms originally designed to standardize our lenders ability to extend credit.

I’m sure nobody can fault lending institutions for trying to have predictability around a persons willingness and ability to repay credit that they have extended to them. 

Credit cards might be the most unique aspect.   Interest income used to be the prevalent way a lender can make a profit with a credit card however in today’s environment the interchange income and fees are most appealing.  Credit card providers write off millions and millions of dollars each month of unpaid balances that they can never collect.  

That’s a conversation littered with complexities for a different day. But the mortgage loans, car loans, and boat loans that also have enormous impact on peoples credit score are just as important if not more so.

Today you can buy a $400,000 house and borrow as much as 97% of it from a lender and paying interest rate under 3 1/2%. That loan is amortized over 30 years, allowing the majority of us who don’t have $390,000 cash to put down on a house the ability to actually purchase a home at a reasonable monthly payment. 

Same deal with a $30,000 car or a $50,000 boat.  I’m not sure I can agree with anyone who thinks that that is a bad thing.  

But they are not mandatory things as we often make mortgage loans to people who have no credit cards, or house payments, or car payments.

We will gladly validate that they pay their rent if they are renting or their utilities, water bill, cable bill or any other number of methods to validate that they take their financial obligations seriously and make their payments.

That, combined with the total amount of their debt relative to their income provides incredibly strong predictability around whether or not they will pay their mortgage on time and consistently overtime.

Yes, credit cards are baked into this and there are many people who do not have the control to properly use them. But the overwhelming majority of clients we see do you have the financial responsibility. In fact in today’s world of rewards we have many clients who never pay a penny of fees or interest, and accumulate thousands of “reward points“ by using her credit card for every day purchases like groceries and gasoline.

Just the other day I went on to Amazon to purchase a fishing rod travel carrier as I am going to Minnesota at the end of August for a week of Muskie fishing. When I went to check out Amazon automatically gave me the option of using points from my credit card to pay for the $110 item which I did. So I got it for free. My credit card has no annual fee and I pay the balance in full every month.

In the end it may be about education. We live in a time where it is easy to get credit extend it to you for under 5% and just as easy to invest that money with returns certainly an excess of 5%.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 19, 2021, 06:47:13 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 19, 2021, 02:47:49 AM

My favorite is credit checks not being a plus.....no one told me that.  So I'm shopping for a car at a bunch of dealerships and I wanted to find out what I'd actually be paying and had them all do credit checks to get to that point.  No clue why that's a problem, but it dinged me. 
.
It's stupid.

I have to agree with you on this. Originally it was viewed as a negative when a person had many inquiries at one time into the credit. I guess the thought was that there was desperation.
But in today’s world many people are encouraged to do what you did and actually look at their options on a large purchase with more than one car dealership or house lender. It should not drive your credit score down, but for whatever reason it does.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2021, 07:49:57 AM

Got a $1.5K credit card at 18, a checkbook, rented an apartment, paid utilities. Bought my first home at 20, with 20% down.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2021, 08:57:52 AM

There certainly is an educational component here, something parents should do.  But parents may not understand either.

A lady told me about a friend of hers who was widowed and did not know how to WRITE a check, no knowledge of anything financial.  She said she moved in with her for three months to teach her how to take care of paying bills and investing etc.

My wife is a bit limited in this area, not terribly, but she is scared of investing, and not knowledgable about it.  I had a good money manager in Cincy and I told her if I go away just to call him and he'll do the right thing, pretty much.  And she wouldn't need to worry about it.  I've given her a list of the bills to pay that routinely come around.

A lot of this is simply because the French system is somewhat different than ours.  CAC40 and all that, (which of course is basically the same).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2021, 09:09:51 AM

I highly recommend LifeLock to protect your credit (and other things). Having been a victim of identity theft, I can tell you that you do not want it to happen to you. It took years to unravel the mess that the Russian bitch made for me.

She was arrested in California, by the Postal Police.


LifeLock Official Site | Identity Theft Protection (https://www.lifelock.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 19, 2021, 09:15:57 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 18, 2021, 10:50:44 PM

So I think the bolded part is somewhat interesting. Whether or not it's true, there is a sense that to take an important life step (kinda), and have access to one of the most bedrock wealth-building paths in our society, you have to tangle with a financial instrument that is designed to pillage the finances of those who use it.

The fact is, many of the convenient features credit cards once offered are now available with much less risk (well, give or take the fact it's build on the credit card infrastructure, which gets philosophical). In our modern society, if you actually need that kind of credit, you almost assuredly shouldn't be using it. If you get caught in either a moment of irresponsibility, calamity or ignorance of how the instrument functions, they'll ruin your finances. And the companies that operate them are literally built on doing that.

This isn't to say that there isn't a need for some way to prove financial responsibly. But we don't need to attach any moral rectitude to the credit card industry. Those things are designed at their base to drain people. They might make it a game with rewards, or get cast as part of building a stable financial life, but their bread is buttered by putting people in bad spots and squeezing them.

(I should say this, I had a really low debt/low trackable credit lifestyle through much of my 20s. I used a debit card instead of a credit card. I lived in places with roommates or consolidated bills, so I was rarely on power or cable bills. I paid rent every month, though roommate stuff was often not documented. And in truth, I lived a very stable financial life, and people still explained, “No, BAB, you need to borrow someone’s money, for the credit score and your future.” Think about how wild that is. I had a friend who bought a car from a family member. You can handle that all sorts of ways. Instead, they went to a bank and got a loan, with monthly payments and everything. Why? “To build my credit.” We’re somehow attaching moral good to going into debt.

Also, for fun, your credit score is five parts
Payment history - What we’ve talked here, 35 percent
Amount owed/credit utilization - If I’m running $2,000 a month on my credit card, this looks better if I have $10,000 in limit instead of $4,000, even if I’m paying more for the former number, 30 percent
Length of credit history - This encourages you to start going into debt early and to keep different lines active
Credit mix - This just means I need to borrow from a few different sets of folks 10 percent
New credit - This dings you for borrowing from a bunch of sources all at ones, 10 percent)

I have bought 3 homes without using a bank.  Only needed the bank to draw the money from.  Obviously for most people the bank makes it much easier, if they have the credit.  

I came of age in the 90's when the student credit card thing was just getting started.  I had a friend who got one of those cards, charged it up quick.  It took him years to pay that off.  I remember going out to eat, he paid with his card, I paid him my half with cash.  I had one as well but never let the balance get more than I could pay in full.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2021, 09:19:57 AM

I got a student credit card in 1978 or so.  It had a $250 credit limit.  They were pushing them at the time.  

I had to have one when I started traveling on interview trips.  I don't think there was a choice or another option.  One company was nice enough to send me tickets in the mail, but they were singular, that was Dow in Midland.  How else could I buy airline tickets?  I got reimbursed after the fact.

Some of the other students really struggled with this, I was not completely broke at the time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 19, 2021, 09:41:22 AM

sometimes my wife would overdo it on one of our credit cards and thats when I took a small box marked it as "Credit Card Jail" and the card in question would go in there and not paroled until the card was paid off

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2021, 09:53:30 AM

Fortunately, my wife is very responsible in using money.  I like that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 19, 2021, 09:56:54 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 18, 2021, 11:39:35 PM

I currently live in Northwest Houston and I guarantee for $200,000 you can buy a very good 1800 square foot house here

Obviously the closer you get to downtown the more expensive the house will be

Im guessing my distance to downtown is 30 miles

I just looked at the city proper, not suburbs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2021, 10:02:06 AM

You have to go pretty far out here to find a new home for $200,000.  They don't build them much at all, and the older homes are closer in and more expensive.

When we drove to DC, I saw new subdivisions from I-85 fifty miles out, they looked like starter castles, probably 3,000 SF and $300,000.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 19, 2021, 10:04:14 AM

Quote from: Gigem on July 19, 2021, 09:15:57 AM

I have bought 3 homes without using a bank.  Only needed the bank to draw the money from.  Obviously for most people the bank makes it much easier, if they have the credit. 

I came of age in the 90's when the student credit card thing was just getting started.  I had a friend who got one of those cards, charged it up quick.  It took him years to pay that off.  I remember going out to eat, he paid with his card, I paid him my half with cash.  I had one as well but never let the balance get more than I could pay in full. 

Well now I’m curious. Were you just buying a cheap houses? Or is there an avenue there that I am missing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2021, 10:05:35 AM

borrow the money from a wealthy uncle or aunt or grandparent

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 19, 2021, 10:12:59 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 19, 2021, 09:56:54 AM

I just looked at the city proper, not suburbs.

This is Texas 

30 miles does not mean you are in the suburbs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 19, 2021, 10:20:08 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 19, 2021, 10:04:14 AM

Well now I’m curious. Were you just buying a cheap houses? Or is there an avenue there that I am missing.

I bought older homes that needed TLC and fixed them up.  One I paid $35,000 cash for, put about 10-15K into it and rented it out.  Still own the home 15+ years later.  Came really close to flooding during Harvey, about 3" more and it would have been in the house (located next to Brazos River).  I would say this house is worth at least $120K today.  I did do a major remodel on the house ~5 years ago. 

The 2nd house I paid about $36-38 for ( can't remember exactly). Same deal as before.

3rd house is my crown jewel of the fleet.  paid about $55K.  It was a foreclosure, we were the third contract put down but we won out because we didn't need any kind of inspection or messing with banks.  We just went straight to the title company, paid all closing costs.  Not near as much TLC needed on this house, just painting, a new AC, some tile.  I'd say we put less than $20K in this house, it's probably worth almost $200K now. 

Bought in 2015 before the effects of the shale gas really hit our area.  We're a major chemical manufacturing hub on the Tx Coast, shale gas totally transformed our outlook here.  I'd conservatively estimate about $20 billion has been poured into Brazoria county since that time.  Housing has went way up as well.  There are still some jewels out there but you've got to have cash and be ready to move and do work after closing.  I thought real hard about buying up some riverfront property after Harvey for cheap but just couldn't pull the trigger.  Now I'm kicking myself. 

Of course I know in some areas of the country you can't buy an old shack for less than $300K, but that would buy you a really nice modern house in my area.  Pricing is still ticking up, and houses for sale usually go in a few days if not the same day. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 19, 2021, 11:13:50 AM

Sitting on the beach reading about pirates. I'm awestruck at the idea of people setting sail into the ocean and finding, well, anything.

Also interesting to see how early American colonies depended on pirates to help the local economy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2021, 11:23:25 AM

Where you at?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 19, 2021, 11:53:32 AM

Nags Head

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 19, 2021, 11:58:35 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 19, 2021, 10:12:59 AM

This is Texas

30 miles does not mean you are in the suburbs

Interesting. The listing site did not appear to show that many. But perhaps they are pretty incomplete. I don’t know.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 19, 2021, 12:00:50 PM

Quote from: Gigem on July 19, 2021, 10:20:08 AM

I bought older homes that needed TLC and fixed them up.  One I paid $35,000 cash for, put about 10-15K into it and rented it out.  Still own the home 15+ years later.  Came really close to flooding during Harvey, about 3" more and it would have been in the house (located next to Brazos River).  I would say this house is worth at least $120K today.  I did do a major remodel on the house ~5 years ago. 

The 2nd house I paid about $36-38 for ( can't remember exactly). Same deal as before.

3rd house is my crown jewel of the fleet.  paid about $55K.  It was a foreclosure, we were the third contract put down but we won out because we didn't need any kind of inspection or messing with banks.  We just went straight to the title company, paid all closing costs.  Not near as much TLC needed on this house, just painting, a new AC, some tile.  I'd say we put less than $20K in this house, it's probably worth almost $200K now. 

Bought in 2015 before the effects of the shale gas really hit our area.  We're a major chemical manufacturing hub on the Tx Coast, shale gas totally transformed our outlook here.  I'd conservatively estimate about $20 billion has been poured into Brazoria county since that time.  Housing has went way up as well.  There are still some jewels out there but you've got to have cash and be ready to move and do work after closing.  I thought real hard about buying up some riverfront property after Harvey for cheap but just couldn't pull the trigger.  Now I'm kicking myself. 

Of course I know in some areas of the country you can't buy an old shack for less than $300K, but that would buy you a really nice modern house in my area.  Pricing is still ticking up, and houses for sale usually go in a few days if not the same day. 

Geez, in a couple spots that I’ve lived/plan to live, I don’t think you can get a plot of dirt for that little.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2021, 12:08:40 PM

It wouldn't buy you much where I live now for sure.  But I'm amidst a city.  

Revised Centennial Yards plan stressing walkability, street connections unveiled | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/downtown-centennial-yards-gulch-project-state-farm-mercedes-benz)

Another Big Plan to revitalize the downtown here to be built over the tracks, literally.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2021, 12:08:54 PM

come on out to dirt farmer country

we don't need no stinking paved roads

houses are cheap!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2021, 12:17:16 PM

Condo for sale: $320,000 950 W Peachtree St Nw 902, Atlanta, GA 30309 | Homes.com (https://www.homes.com/property/950-w-peachtree-st-nw-902-atlanta-ga-30309/id-300015027019/)

One bdr one bath, 812 sf, near me, sorta.

Condo for sale: $869,000 40 12th St 1001, Atlanta, GA 30309 | Homes.com (https://www.homes.com/property/40-12th-st-1001-atlanta-ga-30309/id-1000238902771/)

Rwo bdr two bath 1525 sf,  Sheesh.

Condo for sale: $1,247,975 40 W 12th St 1402, Atlanta, GA 30309 | Homes.com (https://www.homes.com/property/40-w-12th-st-1402-atlanta-ga-30309/id-1000080961472/)

These are in a building not yet quite finished. 

This is a nice building a block from us:

Condo for sale: $989,000 222 12th St 806, Atlanta, GA 30309 | Homes.com (https://www.homes.com/property/222-12th-st-ne-806-atlanta-ga-30309/id-300020004514/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2021, 12:31:59 PM

There is only one house for sale in my development. There are a few condos, but I would never want a condo. Florida prohibits grills on properties containing two or more units.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2021, 12:33:44 PM

We are allowed the electric grill, which works better than expected, and "they" are apparently going to put a gas grill by the pool, though I'd never use it.  I prefer electric to gas.  We could walk across the street and do charcoal on the rather lame grills in the park, the typical picnic area types.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 19, 2021, 01:18:56 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2021, 12:31:59 PM

There is only one house for sale in my development. There are a few condos, but I would never want a condo. Florida prohibits grills on properties containing two or more units.

That’s weird. Where I am about to move, every single apartment complex includes a grill available to residents. I think a friend of mine just parked a big green egg next to the rooftop pool

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2021, 01:28:30 PM

Yeah, they have those here too. I just want it right outside my door.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 19, 2021, 01:45:05 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 19, 2021, 12:00:50 PM

Geez, in a couple spots that I’ve lived/plan to live, I don’t think you can get a plot of dirt for that little.

I understand, but really it's all relative I guess.  

I couldn't buy the dirt these places are on for that now.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 19, 2021, 01:49:20 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2021, 12:31:59 PM

There is only one house for sale in my development. There are a few condos, but I would never want a condo. Florida prohibits grills on properties containing two or more units.

(https://i.imgur.com/Cxs8lCh.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2021, 01:49:51 PM

Location etc.  The best obviously is a run down area that is about to boom, if you don't need schools.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2021, 01:55:19 PM

About 15 months ago I bought 5 lots in the neighboring development. I'm thinking about selling them, like now. Realtor says I will "easily" get 4X what I paid. It's crazy down here right now.

I wish I bought 10 or 20.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2021, 02:05:05 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2021, 01:28:30 PM

Yeah, they have those here too. I just want it right outside my door.

gotta be within 3 or 4 steps of my kitchen

I'm spoiled

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 19, 2021, 02:07:42 PM

We've got a gas grill built into the cooking island in our outdoor kitchen on the back patio.  I don't ever use it, I'll use the grill portion of my offset smoker around the side of the house.  But my i s c & a aggie wife likes to use it for grilling veggies and shish kabobs and stuff like that.  And if she's cooking, I ain't complaining.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 19, 2021, 02:28:20 PM

Quote from: Gigem on July 19, 2021, 01:45:05 PM

I understand, but really it's all relative I guess. 

I couldn't buy the dirt these places are on for that now. 

I should’ve asked, we’re these purchased somewhat recently, or a good while ago. 

(sorry to be extra curious. I’ve not bought property to this point, but likely will in the next two years unless I mess up a new job)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2021, 02:34:04 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2021, 01:55:19 PM

About 15 months ago I bought 5 lots in the neighboring development. I'm thinking about selling them, like now. Realtor says I will "easily" get 4X what I paid. It's crazy down here right now.

I wish I bought 10 or 20.

Might be time if capital gains rates go up and if we're due for another collapse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 19, 2021, 02:35:07 PM

Speaking of housing prices, I've been watching the house that recently sold here. The one that was listed for $870K and had two offers at $950K, once of which was accepted.

This house was one of the nicer houses in the neighborhood. About 1800sf, pretty well renovated and modern in the interior. Solar on the roof, pool in the backyard. I would have called it much more "move-in ready" than ANYTHING else in this neighborhood, which I thought might explain some of the bidding war that occurred on it.

New owners haven't moved in yet. Doing TONS of work on the house, especially in the backyard (as far as I can see from the street anyway). 

I don't get it.

I thought the rule was to buy the sh!ttiest house in the most expensive neighborhood, not to buy the most expensive house in the sh!ttiest neighborhood and then throw even MORE money into it. 

Seems dumb.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2021, 02:39:20 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 19, 2021, 02:35:07 PM

Speaking of housing prices, I've been watching the house that recently sold here. The one that was listed for $870K and had two offers at $950K, once of which was accepted.

This house was one of the nicer houses in the neighborhood. About 1800sf, pretty well renovated and modern in the interior. Solar on the roof, pool in the backyard. I would have called it much more "move-in ready" than ANYTHING else in this neighborhood, which I thought might explain some of the bidding war that occurred on it.

New owners haven't moved in yet. Doing TONS of work on the house, especially in the backyard (as far as I can see from the street anyway).

I don't get it.

I thought the rule was to buy the sh!ttiest house in the most expensive neighborhood, not to buy the most expensive house in the sh!ttiest neighborhood and then throw even MORE money into it.

Seems dumb.

That's what we did here. And we gutted it completely. You wouldn't know it's the same house.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2021, 02:40:30 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 19, 2021, 02:34:04 PM

Might be time if capital gains rates go up and if we're due for another collapse.

I think I'll hit the market next week. Builders are buying these things up like crazy, in addition to private individuals and investors.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2021, 02:56:58 PM

You could sell the lots on a rotating basis, one now, one in a few months, etc.  Dollar averaging.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2021, 02:57:44 PM

That often is true, I'm a bit more sanguine about it, but figure you know better.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 19, 2021, 03:44:03 PM

Unless you desperately need the money I'd probably hold.  At least in my area, I don't see this as a bubble set to burst, but more of a new plateau.  I'm positive the market will cool and the huge annual and even monthly increases in market price will level off, but I don't think there will be some massive reset that results in a large loss of market value.

I've been a little tempted to sell off our rentals given the massive increases in value recently, but in reality they're only going to continue going up, long-term.  And now the rental prices I can charge do a lot more than offset expenses for a simple cash flow positive, they're actually starting to generate significant passive income.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2021, 03:52:03 PM

Those are some good points, but I also need to consider taxes, and I'm also older than you. Taxes will never be as low as they are right now. Lots to think about.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Geolion91 on July 19, 2021, 03:55:47 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on July 19, 2021, 11:53:32 AM

Nags Head

Nice, I was in Hatteras for 4th of July week.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 19, 2021, 04:31:22 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 19, 2021, 02:28:20 PM

I should’ve asked, we’re these purchased somewhat recently, or a good while ago.

(sorry to be extra curious. I’ve not bought property to this point, but likely will in the next two years unless I mess up a new job)

The last one was as recently as 2015.  The first two were in the mid to late 00's.  I was younger then and could take on a lot more work.  We have 3 rentals and then help the inlaws manage several more.  Truthfully I'd like to dump most of the ones we have and go to 2-3 of the best, least needy homes.  In other words, the homes that rent for the most that require the least maintenance.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2021, 06:21:30 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 17, 2021, 06:39:15 PM

I think in any eventuality, I'd want everyone to be qualified for their job.  To think otherwise, is, to me, nonsensical.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/s600x600/218828127_10158141849931301_3900021177340439218_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=B5ixSVMTTMQAX8YkPrU&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=65cdcdad2c2df78a9e5d0b15adc1ae66&oe=60FBC3CE)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2021, 06:28:56 PM

My daughter in C-bus bought a very modest home in the northern parts, something like $110K, lived there about 5 years, then bought another rather nicer home in southern C-bus in an area that is gentrifying apparently, and is renting the first home for enough to pay the nut and them some.  I've yet to see her new home but it looks nice in photos.  She had to put some money into a furnace and water heater and front porch.  I need to get up there one of these days.

She is a "senior web designer" whatever that means and makes pretty good salary at it, formerly a French and English major from THE Ohio State U.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 19, 2021, 06:33:50 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on July 19, 2021, 06:43:19 AM

Credit scores are very misunderstood including here on this board, but that’s not surprising.  They are somewhat complex algorithms originally designed to standardize our lenders ability to extend credit.

I’m sure nobody can fault lending institutions for trying to have predictability around a persons willingness and ability to repay credit that they have extended to them.

Credit cards might be the most unique aspect.  Interest income used to be the prevalent way a lender can make a profit with a credit card however in today’s environment the interchange income and fees are most appealing.  Credit card providers write off millions and millions of dollars each month of unpaid balances that they can never collect. 

That’s a conversation littered with complexities for a different day. But the mortgage loans, car loans, and boat loans that also have enormous impact on peoples credit score are just as important if not more so.

Today you can buy a $400,000 house and borrow as much as 97% of it from a lender and paying interest rate under 3 1/2%. That loan is amortized over 30 years, allowing the majority of us who don’t have $390,000 cash to put down on a house the ability to actually purchase a home at a reasonable monthly payment.

Same deal with a $30,000 car or a $50,000 boat.  I’m not sure I can agree with anyone who thinks that that is a bad thing. 

But they are not mandatory things as we often make mortgage loans to people who have no credit cards, or house payments, or car payments.

We will gladly validate that they pay their rent if they are renting or their utilities, water bill, cable bill or any other number of methods to validate that they take their financial obligations seriously and make their payments.

That, combined with the total amount of their debt relative to their income provides incredibly strong predictability around whether or not they will pay their mortgage on time and consistently overtime.

Yes, credit cards are baked into this and there are many people who do not have the control to properly use them. But the overwhelming majority of clients we see do you have the financial responsibility. In fact in today’s world of rewards we have many clients who never pay a penny of fees or interest, and accumulate thousands of “reward points“ by using her credit card for every day purchases like groceries and gasoline.

Just the other day I went on to Amazon to purchase a fishing rod travel carrier as I am going to Minnesota at the end of August for a week of Muskie fishing. When I went to check out Amazon automatically gave me the option of using points from my credit card to pay for the $110 item which I did. So I got it for free. My credit card has no annual fee and I pay the balance in full every month.

In the end it may be about education. We live in a time where it is easy to get credit extend it to you for under 5% and just as easy to invest that money with returns certainly an excess of 5%.

See, this is why I like this place. This is informative and spurs more dialogue. I had three points that caught my attention and led to follow ups.

1. I think one of the things with the credit score is that a lot is read into it. Like needing to use a CC or get a loan to "build credit" is this common myth, i.e., you need to be proactive in borrowing, rather than just live a financially sound life. 

2. That's interesting to see that interchange income is closing in on interest. The stat I quickly pulled up said it was way ahead. I'm still generally distrusting of credit cards as an instrument (certain elements of them I still think exist to profit off irresponsibility), but understand it's one I can play the angles of for a relatively modest benefit. 

3. The points thing is something I understand to a degree, but am not fully immersed in and thus don't totally trust (I should say, my standard for fully immersed is a higher bar). In some ways, it seems like a way to game-ify spending money, and while the benefits can be nice, the interchange rate isn't that high, and these companies aren't giving away money (they might be getting kickbacks). Plus there's the opacity of "points," which is a smart marketing gimmick that reduces clarity in a way. 

Anyway, I appreciate you sharing the expertise. It's especially clarifying at that No. 1 point. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2021, 06:45:28 PM

I check my credit score for free every few months on two sites.  It bounces around very oddly, only a few points up or down, at times it can't go up anyway.  I don't change anything at all.  I checked today and it was down 7 points, from 850 to 843.  Did I do anything differently?  Nope.

I didn't take out more credit, I paid down my mortgage as always, paid the car loan on time, paid all my bills as usual.  It doesn't matter, but it's weird to me.  And now one of them advertises some gimmick whereby you supposedly can increase your CS by clicking on something, it's not very clear, they show a lot of happy actors (duh).

My assets far outweigh the two loans I have.  I got the car loan because it's 1.9% and the salesman said he would do a better price if I took out a loan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 19, 2021, 07:06:10 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 19, 2021, 06:33:50 PM

See, this is why I like this place. This is informative and spurs more dialogue. I had three points that caught my attention and led to follow ups.

1. I think one of the things with the credit score is that a lot is read into it. Like needing to use a CC or get a loan to "build credit" is this common myth, i.e., you need to be proactive in borrowing, rather than just live a financially sound life.

2. That's interesting to see that interchange income is closing in on interest. The stat I quickly pulled up said it was way ahead. I'm still generally distrusting of credit cards as an instrument (certain elements of them I still think exist to profit off irresponsibility), but understand it's one I can play the angles of for a relatively modest benefit.

3. The points thing is something I understand to a degree, but am not fully immersed in and thus don't totally trust (I should say, my standard for fully immersed is a higher bar). In some ways, it seems like a way to game-ify spending money, and while the benefits can be nice, the interchange rate isn't that high, and these companies aren't giving away money (they might be getting kickbacks). Plus there's the opacity of "points," which is a smart marketing gimmick that reduces clarity in a way.

Anyway, I appreciate you sharing the expertise. It's especially clarifying at that No. 1 point.

Yes- it is an interesting area.

as the holder of a credit card portfolio- would you rather offer a low rate to highly qualified borrowers with excellent credit, who pay their balance off monthly, and make less in interest income and late fees, but save a ton on unpaid balances and the high cost of collections. And- you make a steady stream of interchange income from all the card swipes.  You supply rewards points- but you partner with suppliers like Amazon or certain airlines and rental car companies such that they absorb most of those cost for increased eyeballs in their outlets.

Or

Charge a much higher rate for the second tier and below credit scores.  Collect gobs of interest income, annual fees and late fees, but write off gobs of unpaid balances and the high cost of collections. 

and those are the 2 ends of the spectrum- there are CC providers all throughout the middle.
no doubt- their mission is to make a profit but the way in which they do that and what their intentions are varies tremendously.  There are some that prefer high end borrowers who pay Off their balance each month, swipe the card often and use their reward points. They tend to be very loyal since there’s no reason to leave because they never pay any annual fees or late fees and they don’t pay interest either. That makes for a very pretty annuity stream for a credit card provider, and they prefer that. In other words they want their borrowers to pay them off.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 19, 2021, 07:08:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 19, 2021, 06:45:28 PM

I check my credit score for free every few months on two sites.  It bounces around very oddly, only a few points up or down, at times it can't go up anyway.  I don't change anything at all.  I checked today and it was down 7 points, from 850 to 843.  Did I do anything differently?  Nope.

I didn't take out more credit, I paid down my mortgage as always, paid the car loan on time, paid all my bills as usual.  It doesn't matter, but it's weird to me.  And now one of them advertises some gimmick whereby you supposedly can increase your CS by clicking on something, it's not very clear, they show a lot of happy actors (duh).

My assets far outweigh the two loans I have.  I got the car loan because it's 1.9% and the salesman said he would do a better price if I took out a loan.

I own my house and car so no debt

pay off my CC monthly

again no debt at all

my credit score last time I checked was 821

so debt cant be the only thing looked at

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2021, 07:22:45 PM

821 is good enough

probably need to borrow money more often

mine is about the same rating with about the same use

haven't have a loan in over 5 years

all bills paid on time, all credit cards paid in full each month

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 19, 2021, 07:57:55 PM

do any of you use the bill pay service offered by many banks

I use it and think it sure beats licking envelops 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 19, 2021, 08:03:44 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on July 19, 2021, 07:06:10 PM

Yes- it is an interesting area.

as the holder of a credit card portfolio- would you rather offer a low rate to highly qualified borrowers with excellent credit, who pay their balance off monthly, and make less in interest income and late fees, but save a ton on unpaid balances and the high cost of collections. And- you make a steady stream of interchange income from all the card swipes.  You supply rewards points- but you partner with suppliers like Amazon or certain airlines and rental car companies such that they absorb most of those cost for increased eyeballs in their outlets.

Or

Charge a much higher rate for the second tier and below credit scores.  Collect gobs of interest income, annual fees and late fees, but write off gobs of unpaid balances and the high cost of collections. 

and those are the 2 ends of the spectrum- there are CC providers all throughout the middle.
no doubt- their mission is to make a profit but the way in which they do that and what their intentions are varies tremendously.  There are some that prefer high end borrowers who pay Off their balance each month, swipe the card often and use their reward points. They tend to be very loyal since there’s no reason to leave because they never pay any annual fees or late fees and they don’t pay interest either. That makes for a very pretty annuity stream for a credit card provider, and they prefer that. In other words they want their borrowers to pay them off.

The variable rewards point math irks me. I'm more a brass tacks person, so when someone says "Here's 80,000 points," I think, I need to know what that means in money. I also dislike an annual fee, but that's the route to playing the rewards game (I also prefer my rewards simple, which they do not, as complex rewards have a high write off element from the other side).

I'm fascinated by my old credit card which did a flat 1% reward, which is like half the take from merchants. But I suppose if you get half of what I charge in a year and there are thousands of mes, it adds up. I'm also probably a terrible example because I live lean by nature. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2021, 08:04:20 PM

no, but I have most monthly bills set up on auto-pay to my capital one credit card - 1.5% cashback

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 19, 2021, 08:47:08 PM

Visited Carova today, which is a community only accessible by boat or driving a 4×4 vehicle along the beach. There are wild horses there that poop on everything. Not somewhere I find terribly attractive to live.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 19, 2021, 08:48:11 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 19, 2021, 08:04:20 PM

no, but I have most monthly bills set up on auto-pay to my capital one credit card - 1.5% cashback

I considered that but just dont want to give up control on when the bill is paid

its an affliction from my past profession

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2021, 08:58:06 PM

I have to remember at the first of the month to pay the Verizon cell phone bill and my 3 credit card bills.

the rest are set up

I don't have too many

water bill, internet bill

that's about it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2021, 12:51:19 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 19, 2021, 07:57:55 PM

do any of you use the bill pay service offered by many banks

I use it and think it sure beats licking envelops

Yes, for as much as I can. 

Free service with BofA. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 20, 2021, 01:27:59 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2021, 12:51:19 AM

Yes, for as much as I can.

Free service with BofA.

I use Wells Fargo and have had no problems

now I only write about 5 checks a year

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2021, 07:49:34 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 19, 2021, 07:57:55 PM

do any of you use the bill pay service offered by many banks

I use it and think it sure beats licking envelops

I do almost entirely with the Schwab bank.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2021, 08:34:25 AM

what's worse, making the payment or checking to see that your bank made the payment properly?

I'd say checking up, hopefully that eliminates late fees

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2021, 09:16:14 AM

I was at around 835-840 forever, until I started taking advantage of the zero rates on credit (Home Depot, Best Buy, Lowes) as we were doing our house gutting. Then I took a home EQ loan to help fund some of the rehab.

I dropped to 720 and felt terrible about that. Now back to 823 as I paid all of this stuff off. Just did a refi and we're all good now. All of those cards are now closed, which I'm sure helped. Last month I jumped 60 points.

I guess I was worried about nothing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2021, 09:19:18 AM

I'm at 823 this morning

I'm not expecting to borrow any money anytime soon, maybe never

hopefully never

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2021, 09:23:57 AM

Given the rates out there, I'm not hesitant at all to borrow. I will likely borrow for a car/SUV soon. At 3 percent, why not? We're hovering about 30% return on investments right now. Doesn't make sense to take away that return to not pay 3 percent.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 20, 2021, 09:38:07 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2021, 09:23:57 AM

Given the rates out there, I'm not hesitant at all to borrow. I will likely borrow for a car/SUV soon. At 3 percent, why not? We're hovering about 30% return on investments right now. Doesn't make sense to take away that return to not pay 3 percent.

Yup, it's like taking free money!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2021, 09:50:21 AM

I'll ask my money guy.

My investments did well last year as well, but I'm pretty conservative.

borrowing 100,000 to make $20,000 seems too good to be true.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2021, 09:50:50 AM

It's true.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2021, 10:04:31 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 20, 2021, 08:34:25 AM

what's worse, making the payment or checking to see that your bank made the payment properly?

I'd say checking up, hopefully that eliminates late fees

I've never had a miss due to bank error in 20 plus years.  

My company once deposited my paycheck to the wrong account, out of the blue, I changed nothing, and my mortgage payment was scheduled the next day and I had insufficient funds.  My director said he would cover the fees, but the bank waived them anyway.  My salary had gone to an account I had closed a year earlier, for no reason.  They had been deposited accurately for a year or more and then not.

I just paid my trash bill using the Schawb bank, I was not sure it would go through, first time set up, got an email when it was paid.  It's weird to me I get a trash bill.

I got the bill for my surgical procedure yesterday, $243, original bill over $15,000.  My insurance seems to be good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Geolion91 on July 20, 2021, 10:12:13 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on July 19, 2021, 08:47:08 PM

Visited Carova today, which is a community only accessible by boat or driving a 4×4 vehicle along the beach. There are wild horses there that poop on everything. Not somewhere I find terribly attractive to live.

I've never been up there, but I'd like to stay in Carova for a week at one of the houses.  I tend to prefer the less crowded areas of OBX.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2021, 11:57:38 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 20, 2021, 10:04:31 AM

I've never had a miss due to bank error in 20 plus years. 

...

I just paid my trash bill using the Schawb bank, I was not sure it would go through, first time set up, got an email when it was paid.  It's weird to me I get a trash bill.

Likewise I've never had any issue with bank error doing online bill pay--probably been doing it 10 years now? More trustworthy than USPS IMHO. 

For some things that have the option I do pay on the actual biller website rather than routing it through BofA. 

CD, I'm surprised you have a trash bill too... Being in high-rise living I would assume that was one of the amenities of the property and whatever HOA or other fees you're paying them.

Our trash bills recently went up. Used to be just under $50/quarter and now it's jumped to $65/quarter. I don't recall what justification they had for the increase. I suppose for basically $20/mo I just don't care.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 20, 2021, 12:03:55 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2021, 11:57:38 AM

Likewise I've never had any issue with bank error doing online bill pay--probably been doing it 10 years now? More trustworthy than USPS IMHO.

For some things that have the option I do pay on the actual biller website rather than routing it through BofA.

CD, I'm surprised you have a trash bill too... Being in high-rise living I would assume that was one of the amenities of the property and whatever HOA or other fees you're paying them.

Our trash bills recently went up. Used to be just under $50/quarter and now it's jumped to $65/quarter. I don't recall what justification they had for the increase. I suppose for basically $20/mo I just don't care.

Here in my area of Houston the trash bill is included in my water bill

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2021, 12:25:19 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2021, 11:57:38 AM

Likewise I've never had any issue with bank error doing online bill pay--probably been doing it 10 years now? More trustworthy than USPS IMHO.

For some things that have the option I do pay on the actual biller website rather than routing it through BofA.

CD, I'm surprised you have a trash bill too... Being in high-rise living I would assume that was one of the amenities of the property and whatever HOA or other fees you're paying them.

Our trash bills recently went up. Used to be just under $50/quarter and now it's jumped to $65/quarter. I don't recall what justification they had for the increase. I suppose for basically $20/mo I just don't care.

$15.40/hour, perhaps? That's a roughly 18 percent increase in pay. You just got a 30 percent increase.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2021, 01:22:41 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2021, 12:25:19 PM

$15.40/hour, perhaps? That's a roughly 18 percent increase in pay. You just got a 30 percent increase.

Could be, but I doubt garbage men were making less than that. I dunno... Do you need a CDL to drive a garbage truck? I would think so. And if I was Waste Management I wouldn't exactly trust one of those trucks to someone making less than that anyway...

Maybe it increased pay scales across the board so they need to pay their guys better, but I don't think a large portion of their workforce was making minimum wage.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2021, 01:35:23 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2021, 11:57:38 AM

CD, I'm surprised you have a trash bill too... Being in high-rise living I would assume that was one of the amenities of the property and whatever HOA or other fees you're paying them.

It surprised me too, but I presume the city has to bill each residence.  My HOA includes water, hot water, cable, and internet, plus the usual, so it's otherwise very inclusive.  Otherwise I pay property tax of course and the mortgage, which I've cut by 3/4ths in 3 years.  Insurance on the place also, it's not much.

The building is a "midrise".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2021, 01:39:44 PM

From Indeed:

Average Waste Management hourly pay ranges from approximately $9.00 per hour for Feeder to $28.00 per hour for Shift Manager.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on July 20, 2021, 02:06:56 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 19, 2021, 07:57:55 PM

do any of you use the bill pay service offered by many banks

I use it and think it sure beats licking envelops

Almost everything I pay is on autopay with the particular vendor.  I thought about consolidating to the pay service by my bank, but don't want to have to change everything. Only my landscaper gets a check. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2021, 02:20:53 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/8CHqSLg.png)

Amazing how old this thing is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 20, 2021, 02:28:32 PM

This one's pretty old, too:

(https://i.imgur.com/VjXQoUu.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 20, 2021, 02:29:08 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2021, 01:22:41 PM

Could be, but I doubt garbage men were making less than that. I dunno... Do you need a CDL to drive a garbage truck? I would think so. And if I was Waste Management I wouldn't exactly trust one of those trucks to someone making less than that anyway...

Maybe it increased pay scales across the board so they need to pay their guys better, but I don't think a large portion of their workforce was making minimum wage.

Doesn't matter. When the floor rises (min wage) everything above it rises also. You can't expect to pay someone doing a $15/hr wage the same when McDonalds starts paying that to new hires. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2021, 02:34:17 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 20, 2021, 02:28:32 PM

This one's pretty old, too:

Not one on the best movies was it, eh?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2021, 02:37:00 PM

2020 10Best Cars and Trucks: The Winners (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g29784718/2020-10best-winners/?utm_source=facebook_dda&utm_medium=cpm&utm_campaign=dda_fb_cd_d_o_g29784718&fbclid=IwAR2ipvxn7O6gnlnXSWVNHGu9qjR4O0ag94SIp1KKXf9aTMpCWsGJfUtlm60&slide=20)

I guess so, some "SUVs" in the group.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 20, 2021, 02:40:41 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 20, 2021, 02:34:17 PM

Not one on the best movies was it, eh? 

Bored me to tears.  But that plane was cool.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 20, 2021, 03:10:31 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2021, 09:23:57 AM

Given the rates out there, I'm not hesitant at all to borrow. I will likely borrow for a car/SUV soon. At 3 percent, why not? We're hovering about 30% return on investments right now. Doesn't make sense to take away that return to not pay 3 percent.

This is one of those things that intuitively makes sense when I read it, but I also completely don’t trust it as an idea in practice.

Maybe a part of it is only trusting investment income so far, even as a look at the balance sheets.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 20, 2021, 03:13:32 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 20, 2021, 02:29:08 PM

Doesn't matter. When the floor rises (min wage) everything above it rises also. You can't expect to pay someone doing a $15/hr wage the same when McDonalds starts paying that to new hires.

Good ole inflation. Granted, inflation is one of those things where it’s bad when it’s happening quickly, but if I recall, also kind of bad if it’s happening deathly slowly. 

I do wonder about the future of labor. Like, as we mechanize more things, how do we create jobs, especially for those needing to learn more specialized skills. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2021, 03:16:10 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 20, 2021, 03:10:31 PM

This is one of those things that intuitively makes sense when I read it, but I also completely don’t trust it as an idea in practice.

Maybe a part of it is only trusting investment income so far, even as a look at the balance sheets.

I'd break even if my ROI was at 3 percent. Why not borrow?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2021, 03:17:19 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 20, 2021, 03:13:32 PM

Good ole inflation. Granted, inflation is one of those things where it’s bad when it’s happening quickly, but if I recall, also kind of bad if it’s happening deathly slowly.

I do wonder about the future of labor. Like, as we mechanize more things, how do we create jobs, especially for those needing to learn more specialized skills.

Start with making more stuff here. This past year has made it painfully obvious that this needs to happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2021, 03:32:39 PM

borrowing a 3% is one thing, there are origination fees and other ways for the lender to make their money upfront or on the back end

it's not a free service and I don't like paying for things I don't need

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2021, 03:49:13 PM

Sounds like my wife is having a day...

In her office, they had some patient who decided to vape weed from a vape pen in the exam room.

Now apparently they have a 36 year old male virgin in the office. I haven't yet heard whether this is because of some religious belief or if he's just not $^@#able...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2021, 03:56:48 PM

God bless both of those patients and of course the staff

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2021, 03:58:00 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2021, 03:17:19 PM

Start with making more stuff here. This past year has made it painfully obvious that this needs to happen.

obviously, we have a painful labor shortage here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2021, 04:28:57 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 20, 2021, 03:58:00 PM

obviously, we have a painful labor shortage here

Sure do.


Here's A List Of 10 Great Jobs You Can Get With That $100,000 College Degree | The Babylon Bee


:) (https://babylonbee.com/news/heres-a-list-of-10-great-jobs-you-can-get-with-that-100000-college-degree)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2021, 05:19:46 PM

We have the nicest plumber you can imagine.  He wears booties and cleans up after better than it was before.  He is extremely courteous and well spoken.  He had an intern type last he was here, a young white guy, the plumber is black, bald, 6'5" tall, and has a great smile.  I keep thinking up more  jobs just to chat again.

The intern dude is also very polite and well spoken, he "sounds" like he could handle college just fine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2021, 05:24:37 PM

Better off learning to be a plumber.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 20, 2021, 05:48:59 PM

theres really a lot of trades a person can go into without going to college

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2021, 05:51:36 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 20, 2021, 05:48:59 PM

theres really a lot of trades a person can go into without going to college

Many now need a 2 year or a certificate. Those combined with internships can lead to a great paying job.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 20, 2021, 06:13:31 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2021, 05:51:36 PM

Many now need a 2 year or a certificate. Those combined with internships can lead to a great paying job.

beats paying $100,000 for a music appreciation degree

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2021, 06:16:54 PM

6 years of college down the drain

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 20, 2021, 06:18:26 PM

I told my children I didnt care if they attended college or not

They just needed to pick a profession that folks cant do without

My son chose to follow my footsteps into accounting and is a CPA

My daughter went over to the dark side and is a lawyer

But I would have been happy if one was a plumber and the other was an electrician

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2021, 06:20:19 PM

My youngest is an electrician. In about 16 months the kid is gonna make bank. His wife is an ER nurse with an MSN. She already makes bank. They are sitting pretty.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 20, 2021, 06:24:04 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2021, 06:20:19 PM

My youngest is an electrician. In about 16 months the kid is gonna make bank. His wife is an ER nurse with an MSN. She already makes bank. They are sitting pretty.

My dad was an electrician and made a very good living

I could have gone in that direction but decided I wanted to be inside and warm or cool depending on the season

I also liked math so accounting was my thing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2021, 06:35:22 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 20, 2021, 06:16:54 PM

6 years of college down the drain

Might as well have joined the effing Peace Corps...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 20, 2021, 09:38:41 PM

Went shrimping and crabbing today. Accidentally caught a stingray. Also a bunch of shrimp and crabs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 20, 2021, 09:42:44 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on July 20, 2021, 09:38:41 PM

Went shrimping and crabbing today. Accidentally caught a stingray. Also a bunch of shrimp and crabs.

did you go on a boat for this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 20, 2021, 10:11:42 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 20, 2021, 09:42:44 PM

did you go on a boat for this

I did

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 20, 2021, 10:22:21 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/Y6Xsnp2.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 20, 2021, 10:32:26 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on July 20, 2021, 10:11:42 PM

I did

My dad ran a shrimping business on the side when I was a kid

I went out many times as his deck hand on his boat

Its amazing what comes up in a shrimp net

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2021, 11:41:00 PM

mermaids???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 21, 2021, 12:03:30 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 20, 2021, 11:41:00 PM

mermaids???

Nope Ariel managed to get away

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 21, 2021, 06:36:16 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/BVrTCrd.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2021, 08:17:30 AM

A veterinarian in China  (https://www.foxnews.com/category/world/world-regions/china)has become the first person in the country to contract and die of the extremely rare Monkey B virus (https://www.foxnews.com/category/science/wild-nature/viruses), Chinese officials said last weekend, according to reports. 

The veterinarian, 53, suffered severe nausea and a fever two months after dissecting two monkeys at a breeding research institute in Beijing and died on May 27, according to the Washington Post. 

The Monkey B virus, also known as the Herpes B virus, usually comes from contact with a macaque monkey and can cause severe brain damage or death, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 21, 2021, 08:45:55 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on July 20, 2021, 09:38:41 PM

Went shrimping and crabbing today. Accidentally caught a stingray. Also a bunch of shrimp and crabs.

Cool.  What part of the country did  you do this at?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2021, 09:44:53 AM

Quote from: Gigem on July 21, 2021, 08:45:55 AM

Cool.  What part of the country did  you do this at? 

He's at the Outer Banks, NC.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2021, 10:34:09 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/s43Ilk3.jpg)

Cranes everywhere around us these days.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 21, 2021, 01:01:56 PM

Quote from: Gigem on July 21, 2021, 08:45:55 AM

Cool.  What part of the country did  you do this at? 

Nags Head, NC. I was unprepared for the amount of seafood we would have. I figured we would get a few crabs and shrimp, like an appetizer. Instead were had like ten pounds of shrimp and 51 live crabs, which was decidely more than I bargained for.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2021, 01:19:13 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/t7ZaWJn.jpg)

Outside the Cecil B. Day butterfly center, Callaway Gardens.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2021, 04:10:23 PM

Texas, Oklahoma interested in joining SEC, per report (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/Texas-Longhorns-Oklahoma-Sooners-joining-SEC-football-168057729/?fbclid=IwAR2a_VnhQdcnT1pHe6q5QMuqvkdIputcXgvShpajuq4Gnt2-fXLo-1ziQMs)

Not sure I believe this.  Next thing we'll have like a 12 team playoff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 21, 2021, 04:19:04 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 21, 2021, 04:10:23 PM

Texas, Oklahoma interested in joining SEC, per report (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/Texas-Longhorns-Oklahoma-Sooners-joining-SEC-football-168057729/?fbclid=IwAR2a_VnhQdcnT1pHe6q5QMuqvkdIputcXgvShpajuq4Gnt2-fXLo-1ziQMs)

Not sure I believe this.  Next thing we'll have like a 12 team playoff.

It would make sense, but only in the way that they could get a pile of money and they’re close to the footprint. 

i’m sure Wake Forest is kind of interested too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2021, 04:33:26 PM

That would force the B1G to take two more. Who would that be?

It would also force the remaining XII school to expand further, to keep up. Tough to lose two helmets and do that, however. Maybe the MWC would be interested, and BYU.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2021, 04:37:14 PM

The Big Ten could take A&M and Missouri.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2021, 04:47:56 PM

Big 12 powers Texas, Oklahoma inquire about joining SEC in potentially massive shakeup, per report - CBSSports.com (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-12-powers-texas-oklahoma-inquire-about-joining-sec-in-potentially-massive-shakeup-per-report/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2021, 04:55:35 PM

Maybe the SEC could split into two leagues with no crossovers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 21, 2021, 05:05:14 PM

I can't say that it won't happen, but I'd like to think A&M and some other members of the SEC would fight like hell to stop it.  Really at what point do you stop?  14 is already kind of gaudy.  

Money trumps all.

Is Texas (the University) really a fit in the SEC?  For christ sakes the last president wanted them to join the PAC-10.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 21, 2021, 05:08:07 PM

Quote from: Gigem on July 21, 2021, 05:05:14 PM

I can't say that it won't happen, but I'd like to think A&M and some other members of the SEC would fight like hell to stop it.  Really at what point do you stop?  14 is already kind of gaudy. 

Money trumps all.

Is Texas (the University) really a fit in the SEC?  For christ sakes the last president wanted them to join the PAC-10. 

Im not sure UT would benefit enough to justify going to the sec

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2021, 05:13:28 PM

New ACC commissioner wants Notre Dame as football member (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/new-acc-commissioner-wants-notre-dame-as-football-member/ar-AAMpvSM?ocid=uxbndlbing)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2021, 05:44:46 PM

It may well be unfounded rumor of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 21, 2021, 06:21:38 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 21, 2021, 05:44:46 PM

It may well be unfounded rumor of course.

I'll just point out that UT has had several chances to join another conference in the past and has repeatedly chosen not to

A lpt of what Texas and Oklahoma does depends on what the other one does

If either OU or UT jumps then the other one would probably do likewise

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 21, 2021, 06:32:02 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2021, 04:33:26 PM

That would force the B1G to take two more. Who would that be?

It would also force the remaining XII school to expand further, to keep up. Tough to lose two helmets and do that, however. Maybe the MWC would be interested, and BYU.

Without Texas and OU, the ACC would pick what it wanted from the Big 12, 2 of which will replace what the B1G picked from the ACC.  About 3 schools would be left out totally, and the PAC might as well focus on lacrosse or something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 21, 2021, 06:33:52 PM

Quote from: Gigem on July 21, 2021, 05:05:14 PM

I can't say that it won't happen, but I'd like to think A&M and some other members of the SEC would fight like hell to stop it.  Really at what point do you stop?  14 is already kind of gaudy. 

Money trumps all.

Is Texas (the University) really a fit in the SEC?  For christ sakes the last president wanted them to join the PAC-10. 

Texas is weird.....it and OU are supposed to be the big dogs in their dinky conference, but the Horns aren't that.  If UT joined the SEC, they'd become even less relevant.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 21, 2021, 08:03:19 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 21, 2021, 06:33:52 PM

Texas is weird.....it and OU are supposed to be the big dogs in their dinky conference, but the Horns aren't that.  If UT joined the SEC, they'd become even less relevant. 

kinda like Florida

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 21, 2021, 09:29:39 PM

There isn't going to be much left of the Big 12 board if they lose all of their Texlahoma posters. 

On the other hand they might liven the SEC board up just enough to keep Fro occupied. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on July 21, 2021, 10:07:29 PM

We don't have room for Texas.  We already have Michigan, and we can only dedicate so many resources to appeasing helmet schools who aren't that anymore.

Maybe we need a retirement home conference where HS students can come read game recaps from the 70s to fan bases who don't know what year it is, to put on college applications?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 21, 2021, 10:24:28 PM

Quote from: ELA on July 21, 2021, 10:07:29 PM

We don't have room for Texas.  We already have Michigan, and we can only dedicate so many resources to appeasing helmet schools who aren't that anymore.

Maybe we need a retirement home conference where HS students can come read game recaps from the 70s to fan bases who don't know what year it is, to put on college applications?

taking a shot at the Horns are we

I did think that if UT moved to another conf it would be the Big

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on July 22, 2021, 05:37:22 AM

It's all sports, it's best not to take it too seriously

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 22, 2021, 08:21:57 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 21, 2021, 08:03:19 PM

kinda like Florida

Yeah, because compete with Alabama, Georgia, LSU, and Auburn while UT faces the likes of.....OU......OU......OU, and OU?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 22, 2021, 08:29:48 AM

Quote from: ELA on July 21, 2021, 10:07:29 PM

We don't have room for Texas.  We already have Michigan, and we can only dedicate so many resources to appeasing helmet schools who aren't that anymore.

Maybe we need a retirement home conference where HS students can come read game recaps from the 70s to fan bases who don't know what year it is, to put on college applications?

Tennessee, Nebraska,...Minnesota could be a founding member of such a conference.  Vanderbilt, too, if you want to go way back.  Army, Navy.....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2021, 08:50:18 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 22, 2021, 08:21:57 AM

Yeah, because compete with Alabama, Georgia, LSU, and Auburn while UT faces the likes of.....OU......OU......OU, and OU?

and the Cyclones of ISU

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2021, 09:19:10 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 21, 2021, 04:37:14 PM

The Big Ten could take A&M and Missouri.

Iowa State and Mizzou

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2021, 09:22:36 AM

Can we please keep this conversation in the dedicated thread that was made?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2021, 09:23:32 AM

fine with me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2021, 09:28:31 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2021, 08:17:30 AM

A veterinarian in China (https://www.foxnews.com/category/world/world-regions/china)has become the first person in the country to contract and die of the extremely rare Monkey B virus (https://www.foxnews.com/category/science/wild-nature/viruses), Chinese officials said last weekend, according to reports.

The veterinarian, 53, suffered severe nausea and a fever two months after dissecting two monkeys at a breeding research institute in Beijing and died on May 27, according to the Washington Post.

The Monkey B virus, also known as the Herpes B virus, usually comes from contact with a macaque monkey and can cause severe brain damage or death, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

https://www.statnews.com/2021/07/20/more-than-200-people-in-u-s-being-monitored-for-possible-monkeypox-exposure-cdc-says/


 (https://www.statnews.com/2021/07/20/more-than-200-people-in-u-s-being-monitored-for-possible-monkeypox-exposure-cdc-says/)ore than 200 people in 27 states are being monitored for possible exposure to monkeypox after they had contact with an individual who contracted the disease in Nigeria before traveling to the United States this month, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. To date, no additional cases have been detected.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2021, 09:43:46 AM

Different virus.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2021, 09:53:10 AM

For the fourth year in a row, Finland topped the list of the World Happiness Report.

If this is surprising to you —  after all, Finland is known for its brutally cold winters and limited daylight — know that some of the people of Finland are just as amazed.

"Finland is not an overtly happy-go-lucky or worry-free place," said Tom Lippo, founder of Fact Law, a law firm with offices in Finland and the US. "Finns are reserved. For example, the Finnish language has a common phrase that's loosely translated as 'one who smiles for no good reason,' and that is not a compliment. So Finns have been shocked to learn that they are so happy!"

The annual survey from Gallup looks at six key factors: GDP per capita, social support, life expectancy, freedom to make life choices, generosity, and corruption levels. Finland scores well in all of these categories, although it does particularly well with the generosity factor.


https://www.insider.com/life-in-finland-happiest-country-2019-6 (https://www.insider.com/life-in-finland-happiest-country-2019-6)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on July 22, 2021, 09:58:25 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2021, 03:17:19 PM

Start with making more stuff here. This past year has made it painfully obvious that this needs to happen.

can't have that- then large multi-national corporations wouldn't be entitled to make the record profits they do year over year. 

US multi-nationals sold out this country, it's future, and it's people. All-time record profits were generated by cutting millions and millions of jobs here that paid liveable wages in order to replace them with virtual slave labor in China, Mexico, Vietnman, etc., etc..

Huge wealth was generated by off-shoring, and all of it went to very small, select group of people. The wealth inequality in this country is a freaking joke. We're living at wealth inequality levels that surpass even the Gilded Age. This is shameful.


(https://i.imgur.com/Uyl1IGV.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 22, 2021, 10:05:52 AM

so what is your solution to the wealth problem you say we have

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 22, 2021, 10:11:30 AM

The top 25% wage earners pay 90% of the personal income taxes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 22, 2021, 10:27:57 AM

It's somewhat an inflated and misguided approach.  The most of the richest people in America invented something or did something that the rest couldn't do.  And I'd even venture that they made most of our lives better for it.  Sure, there's a lot of heirs on there that didn't do squat, but so what?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2021, 10:28:57 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 22, 2021, 10:11:30 AM

The top 25% wage earners pay 90% of the personal income taxes

"Wage earners" is the key term. Most of the very wealthy pay very little in taxes, by comparison.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2021, 10:51:12 AM

My definition of "wealthy" is someone who needs no income to maintain his lifestyle.

No income, no income tax.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2021, 10:54:10 AM

Yep.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 22, 2021, 10:58:59 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2021, 10:28:57 AM

"Wage earners" is the key term. Most of the very wealthy pay very little in taxes, by comparison.

thats just not true and I challenge you to back that up with a source

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 22, 2021, 11:07:19 AM

the path to a better society is not to attack the wealthy

in fact we should be encouraging folks to become rich cause it means they succeeded in this country through their own efforts 

efforts should instead be made to ensure its an even playing field with an emphasis on discouraging discrimination 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2021, 11:07:39 AM

just gotta luv listening to the boat rower

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2021, 11:19:21 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 22, 2021, 10:58:59 AM

thats just not true and I challenge you to back that up with a source

The difference is between "the very wealthy" and "high wage earners".

It is true the "very wealthy" have many options when it comes to avoiding taxable income.  High wage earners do not, unless it's illegal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2021, 11:24:24 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 22, 2021, 10:58:59 AM

thats just not true and I challenge you to back that up with a source

This is a slippery slope, but when you look at income tax paid versus total wealth, it's not much.

Again, slippery slope. To start talking about taxing total wealth is, to me, dangerous.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2021, 11:28:59 AM

US super-rich 'pay almost no income tax' - BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57383869)

He said US billionaires buy an asset, build one or inherit a fortune, and then borrow against their wealth.

Because they don't realise any gains or sell any stock, they're not taking any income, which could be taxed.
"They then borrow from a bank at a relatively low interest rate, live off that and can use the interest expenses as deductions on their income," he said.



You can disparage the linked site of course, but this makes abundant sense.  Why pay taxes if you don't need to?  They have specialists doing their taxes and handling their money, they don't do it, and these guys know the tricks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 22, 2021, 11:31:58 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2021, 11:24:24 AM

This is a slippery slope, but when you look at income tax paid versus total wealth, it's not much.

Again, slippery slope. To start talking about taxing total wealth is, to me, dangerous.

we are on the same page

if someone is paying all taxes required by law anything more is just communism

taking from the rich to give to the poor sounds good on paper ( see the communist manifesto)

but is not the answer

instead of lowering a persons take home income because they are wealthy 

we should be trying to increase a persons take home income because they are poor

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 22, 2021, 11:35:34 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 22, 2021, 11:28:59 AM

US super-rich 'pay almost no income tax' - BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57383869)

He said US billionaires buy an asset, build one or inherit a fortune, and then borrow against their wealth.

Because they don't realise any gains or sell any stock, they're not taking any income, which could be taxed.
"They then borrow from a bank at a relatively low interest rate, live off that and can use the interest expenses as deductions on their income," he said.



You can disparage the linked site of course, but this makes abundant sense.  Why pay taxes if you don't need to?  They have specialists doing their taxes and handling their money, they don't do it, and these guys know the tricks.

so what if they inherited wealth that taxes have already been paid on do we want to tax it again

again wanting to reach out and grab some ones wealth just cause its there is against what this country stands for
and is communistic in practice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 22, 2021, 11:38:10 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 22, 2021, 11:28:59 AM

US super-rich 'pay almost no income tax' - BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57383869)

He said US billionaires buy an asset, build one or inherit a fortune, and then borrow against their wealth.

Because they don't realise any gains or sell any stock, they're not taking any income, which could be taxed.
"They then borrow from a bank at a relatively low interest rate, live off that and can use the interest expenses as deductions on their income," he said.



You can disparage the linked site of course, but this makes abundant sense.  Why pay taxes if you don't need to?  They have specialists doing their taxes and handling their money, they don't do it, and these guys know the tricks.

if we dont like the tax law we should change it

by using the word tricks you make it seem illegal when its not

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2021, 11:47:19 AM

The issue is we don't tax wealth (except on death), and it may be unconsitutional to have a wealth  tax.

The term "tricks" does not imply it's illegal, I never indicated any of this is, it's obviously legal and it's what the super wealthy do because it's legal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 22, 2021, 11:59:28 AM

Interesting article on constitutionality of wealth tax

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/12/17/787476334/is-a-wealth-tax-constitutional

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 22, 2021, 12:06:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 22, 2021, 11:47:19 AM

The issue is we don't tax wealth (except on death), and it may be unconsitutional to have a wealth  tax.

The term "tricks" does not imply it's illegal, I never indicated any of this is, it's obviously legal and it's what the super wealthy do because it's legal.

my point is that the super wealthy dont play tricks they follow tax law just like you and I or should be prosecuted accordingly

you made my point exactly when you said you dont tax wealth just cause its there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2021, 12:07:08 PM

The term "trick" is interesting.  We talk about "trick plays" for example, that are entirely within the rules of course.  That is the same as "tricks" for lowering one's income tax liability.  Municipal bonds for example are one kind of "trick".

Not having income is perhaps the best trick.

I could live "a while" with no income myself.  Wouldn't be prudent.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 22, 2021, 12:11:19 PM

whats interesting is that you could tax all the super wealthy at 100% and it wouldnt put a dent in the new proposed infrastructure bill being proposed

so the excuse of taxing the wealthy more to pay for this new bill as the President has proposed has no merit

taxing the wealthy more is just a buzz phrase to get political support

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2021, 12:16:20 PM

FYI, none of Biden's proposals deal with taxing wealth.  Warren has proposed a wealth tax, not Joe.

It would be difficult to pull off, other countries have tried it and most reversed the move for obvious reasons.

I don't think anyone can seriously tax the super wealthy, they can always dodge it.  Incidentally, Sweden has more billionaires per capita than does the US.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 22, 2021, 12:31:58 PM

I’d Love to Change the World - Ten Years After (https://genius.com/artists/Ten-years-after)


Tax the rich
Feed the poor
Till there are no
Rich no more (https://genius.com/1506638/Ten-years-after-id-love-to-change-the-world/Tax-the-rich-feed-the-poor-till-there-are-no-rich-no-more)


I'd love to change the world
But I don't know what to do
So I'll leave it up to you (https://genius.com/2880010/Ten-years-after-id-love-to-change-the-world/Id-love-to-change-the-world-but-i-dont-know-what-to-do-so-ill-leave-it-up-to-you)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2021, 12:39:01 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 22, 2021, 11:07:39 AM

just gotta luv listening to the boat rower

tough trying to listen to Harbaugh

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 22, 2021, 12:45:59 PM

I have a high income but not a ton of wealth...

I'd like to have the reverse in 20+ years...

...but the income taxes sure do make it a hell of a lot harder to build wealth.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 22, 2021, 12:50:50 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 22, 2021, 09:53:10 AM

For the fourth year in a row, Finland topped the list of the World Happiness Report.

If this is surprising to you —  after all, Finland is known for its brutally cold winters and limited daylight — know that some of the people of Finland are just as amazed.

It's the cool temps like NW Iowa - folks get agitated below the mason dixon slowly roasting

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2021, 12:55:59 PM

my brother is on his way north from Dallas, driving through Oklahoma.......

forecast is for 95 Friday afternoon when he arrives

triple digit heat indexes next week

it's his fault, bringing it with him up I-35

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2021, 12:56:53 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 22, 2021, 12:45:59 PM

I have a high income but not a ton of wealth...

I'd like to have the reverse in 20+ years...

...but the income taxes sure do make it a hell of a lot harder to build wealth.

We had this problem. then, the kids left. No more problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 22, 2021, 01:02:26 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2021, 12:56:53 PM

We had this problem. then, the kids left. No more problem.

Anyone want some? 3 for sale!

Literally I get the worst of both worlds there with the divorce... I need to pay for a house large enough for the kids even though they're only here 40% of the time, and need to pay the ex far more than I'd like in child support for the 60% they're with her.

Of course, my wealth has grown DRAMATICALLY in the 5 years I've been free of her, so that's good. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2021, 01:29:05 PM

I went with my wife to the park to throw agains the tennis practice wall.  In the sun, it's HOT and MUGGY.  In the shade, it's quite pleasant with the light breeze.  This sun in the south is different.

I'm sure that's why we have these PM thunderstorms routinely this time of year.

We have yet to break 90°F this year in the ATL, which is unusual.  Very.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2021, 01:35:20 PM

Posting advice for here:

(https://i.imgur.com/dgNhwX9.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on July 22, 2021, 09:02:03 PM

yes... i'm bragging.

short version of story:  I have an old Platoon Sgt from back when Christ was a corporal, and he makes flags- I make him inserts to dress his flag up- 3d carvings of EGA's or badges, seals from the services, ect...

i made something the other day and sent him a picture.. should be end of story.  its SO not...

he had an old compadre call him to order a flag- he told the guy to order the insert from me, and i would send it to him, and he would incorporate it into his flag... that should be the end of the story, too.. it's not.

this guy makes the purchase and then returns to the old platoon sgt and makes a comment about some other things i made... and the platoon sgt sends him a picture of the thing i sent him a picture of at the beginning of this story. 

the guy really likes it and asks for my contact info which the platoon sgt okays through me via text before giving it to the guy.  he tells me "this is a retired general and history professor and he runs an organization you'll like"...

the guy calls me.

he runs a tour of battlefields through some sort of partnership of the Marine Corps Historical Society.  These guys, as a for instance, travel veterans back to the grounds they fought.. WWII veterans, Korean Veterans, Vietnam Vets... they do a tour of the south pacific in the same order as the island hopping campaign of the war was... they fly three 737's into Iwo Jima- the only ones allowed to do so on that rock, and they walk the hallowed ground they fought on near 80 years ago. 

these guys are dropping like flies as time consumes that generation- the greatest generation this country every delivered and likely ever will. 

this coming November there is a banquet for those remaining from the Frozen Chosen.  There will be one next year too.  They still have a sliver of time.  I'm making something for them too.  but the WWII guys? this February will be the last one.  Both are held in DC.. they are flown with a companion for free by American Airlines to DC and back, are put up in a first class hotel for free, eat at fine restaurants for free, and of course attend the banquet and tour the memorials. 

this group collects things to raffle or auction to pay for these things, and they make gifts for the group they have drawings for.  they're treated like royalty, and they should be.

so... he saw the pic of the thing i made and said "that is really neat, but I need you to make a flag insert".. I offered to make a version of the below image appropriate to the era (not an m-14/m21, but an M1 Garand).  It will be in a shadow box of far better wood selections than that used in the image below.. it'll be enclosed with an acrylic front.. it'll have a plaque with inscription, and a 48 star flag that was flown over Iwo Jima folded inside. 

it gets better...

i mention it to a friend of mine as I'm beside myself with the honor that's been dropped right in my lap, and he makes a suggestion that stops me dead in my tracks.. he asks "how many of these guys remain?" and I answer "I don't know, but not that many as I understand".... he says "I'll provide the material- make one for every single one of them".  Boom.  Done.  I run it past the guy at the organization, and... he is ridiculously happy with the idea. 

so.. I get to make a shadow box with a rifle appropriate to the period carved into a piece of wood, instead of a 48 star flag in each, the rifle will be set atop a waving 48 star flag also carved into the wood.. there will be a plaque with names and dates, units and a simple thanks.  it will read "presented by shop210craftworks" ('my' guild of which drewswoodcraft is a part of) and the Marine Corps Historical Society" and filled 20~25% with sand from Iwo Jima... it'll be the 'parting shot' for these men at the last banquet they'll attend organized by the USMC Historical Society.... I can't begin to explain how honored I am. 

(https://www.drewswoodcraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/6.jpg)

(https://www.drewswoodcraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/5.jpg)

again, that one^ is a m14 'marksmanized' (slightly different than the army's m21) and is representative of the weapon i was issued as a designated marksman in FAST company.. this one isn't even finished yet, but it's getting close.  the one they'll receive is a M1 Garand..

i'm super stoked. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 22, 2021, 09:23:50 PM

great story Drew

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on July 22, 2021, 09:29:20 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 22, 2021, 09:23:50 PM

great story Drew

i can't wait to tell the WHOLE story... i get to attend the banquet in DC in feb... I'll be there, and get to see them receive the gift.. and you can bet i'll take pics. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 22, 2021, 10:13:22 PM

My dad served in World War 2 in the Pacific on an island called Peleliu

The stories he would tell about it were amazing


Ive always hoped to visit it one day

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on July 22, 2021, 10:34:14 PM

That is awesome, Drew. And it's awesome that they're still around to talk about it.

Grandpa GR went ashore on Omaha Beach later in the afternoon and sent arty shells at the Nazis for the next year. Two Bronze Stars. Came back deaf as a post in one ear.  Never told a soul about any of it. The only reason we found out was that we looked at his DD-214 after he died. He's been gone 20 years this week. I still miss him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 22, 2021, 10:45:00 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 22, 2021, 01:02:26 PM

Anyone want some? 3 for sale!

Literally I get the worst of both worlds there with the divorce... I need to pay for a house large enough for the kids even though they're only here 40% of the time, and need to pay the ex far more than I'd like in child support for the 60% they're with her.

Of course, my wealth has grown DRAMATICALLY in the 5 years I've been free of her, so that's good.

Sale? Friend, you gotta give 'em away with some sweeteners.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 22, 2021, 10:46:32 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on July 22, 2021, 09:29:20 PM

i can't wait to tell the WHOLE story... i get to attend the banquet in DC in feb... I'll be there, and get to see them receive the gift.. and you can bet i'll take pics.

Good story and REALLY good work.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on July 22, 2021, 11:00:37 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 22, 2021, 10:13:22 PM

My dad served in World War 2 in the Pacific on an island called Peleliu

The stories he would tell about it were amazing


Ive always hoped to visit it one day

https://www.miltours.com/index.php?route=common/home

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 22, 2021, 11:58:04 PM

@Drew4UTk (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1) could you create each military seal and somehow adhere it to the center of a flag?  Or incorporate it in the center?  Is that doable? 

Or it could act as a wooden patch, with pinholes around the round edge to be sewn through?  Is that crazy?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on July 23, 2021, 12:11:38 AM

The second part is doable.  I'd have to sublimate a flag for the former, so, in theory it's possible too but not near as fun.

https://facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=4536693873042274&id=100001051179248

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 23, 2021, 12:25:06 AM

Oh, wow, nevermind, that far exceeds what I was imagining!  WOW!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on July 23, 2021, 12:29:35 AM

that's the platoon sgt's work not mine- i just cut the insert and sent it to him. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 23, 2021, 10:19:31 AM

It's all gorgeous.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2021, 11:20:49 AM

Yeah, that stuff is awesome.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2021, 11:22:04 AM

I wouldn't at all mind having the Marine Corps for my son. Maybe just the inlay? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 23, 2021, 11:33:37 AM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on July 22, 2021, 09:02:03 PM

these guys are dropping like flies as time consumes that generation- the greatest generation this country every delivered and likely ever will. 

No truer words were ever spoken. I don't believe that kids these days are being taught how these men and women essentially saved the world from Fascism. 

Also loved your entire story (just didn't want to take up too much room reposting it). What an amazing opportunity to honor these men. I would be humbled to be in their presence as I am sure that you are. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on July 23, 2021, 12:35:43 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2021, 11:22:04 AM

I wouldn't at all mind having the Marine Corps for my son. Maybe just the inlay?

just the insert is $150, and it's generally out of pine... 

i'll do this one for you, out of Sapele (solid), for $210.... ive made three of these for members of the forum, here... a USMC one, a navy one, a coast guard one, and one with an AF seal.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2021, 12:57:20 PM

I'll take the pine. He'll hang it on his wall.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 23, 2021, 04:05:33 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 23, 2021, 11:33:37 AM

No truer words were ever spoken. I don't believe that kids these days are being taught how these men and women essentially saved the world from Fascism.

Also loved your entire story (just didn't want to take up too much room reposting it). What an amazing opportunity to honor these men. I would be humbled to be in their presence as I am sure that you are.

I might have asked already, but have you ever been to the WWII museum in New Orleans. If not, it's a must-go experience. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 24, 2021, 07:28:14 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/rt5ICPX.jpg)

Sinke hole on exit ramp of Perimeter here, I use this ramp to get to Costco, but to turn left.  This is next to the baseball stadium, but the Braves are out of town.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 24, 2021, 07:02:11 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 22, 2021, 01:29:05 PM

We have yet to break 90°F this year in the ATL, which is unusual.  Very.

Seriously Clark,we've got there twice but so far a pretty pleasant summer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 24, 2021, 07:12:17 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on July 24, 2021, 07:02:11 PM

Seriously Clark,we've got there twice but so far a pretty pleasant summer

94 right now in Houston

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 24, 2021, 09:56:30 PM

Hit 91°F with humidity, it felt like July.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 25, 2021, 11:01:19 AM

it will be warm here tomorrow and Wednesday


Late July weather

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 25, 2021, 11:30:38 PM

Finally moved into my new place.  Took 6 days.  I had way too much crap.  Tossed most of it, because I'm downsizing.  
.
We've gotten like 3 inches of rain in the past 7 days, so that made it interesting.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2021, 07:34:51 AM

I heard yesterday that Atlanta gets more inches of rain in a year than Seattle.  I'm dubious, but maybe.  It rains hard here at times.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 26, 2021, 08:16:26 AM

A lot more...

Average Annual Precipitation by USA State - Current Results (https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/US/average-annual-state-precipitation.php)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 26, 2021, 08:17:16 AM

the crops here need rain badly

forecast 97 degrees tomorrow and 100 on Wednesday

chance of rain Friday night

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on July 26, 2021, 08:23:46 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 26, 2021, 07:34:51 AM

I heard yesterday that Atlanta gets more inches of rain in a year than Seattle.  I'm dubious, but maybe.  It rains hard here at times.

MSP does too. 

The most frequent thing about Seattle isn't rain, it's cloud cover.

Minnesota needs a lot of rain, badly. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2021, 09:17:54 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 26, 2021, 08:16:26 AM

A lot more...

Average Annual Precipitation by USA State - Current Results (https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/US/average-annual-state-precipitation.php)

Hawaii of course gets a ton of rain, on the eastern side.  Where we stay on the other side gets 3 inches a year, usually all at once.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 26, 2021, 09:27:57 AM

Kauai has a lot of rain, in places, but not as much as the big island. I love the waterfalls that creates.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2021, 09:37:14 AM

We were at Volcano NP once in January where it nearly always is very hazy, but that day was clear to the north, and amazing.  We could see Mauna Kea and Loa to the top, Kea if maybe 40 miles distant.  Mauna Loa is impressively massive, but usually occluded.

Kea means white, and it is snow covered in winter.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2021, 09:42:27 AM

I found a photo, looking north:

(https://i.imgur.com/AbhhwNN.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2021, 09:42:53 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/1WI13JM.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2021, 09:44:16 AM

Coffee plant in bloom, called Kona Snow.

(https://i.imgur.com/u64n66Z.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2021, 09:45:38 AM

We stayed one night at the Waldorf on Maui, this place was rather nice (I used points):

(https://i.imgur.com/xQLs054.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2021, 09:46:09 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/NUuqIR5.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2021, 09:50:13 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/gJsdEBu.jpg)

This is a view of Maui from the Big Island (Hawaii) showing how close they are.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 26, 2021, 09:53:44 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 26, 2021, 08:16:26 AM

A lot more...

Average Annual Precipitation by USA State - Current Results (https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/US/average-annual-state-precipitation.php)

That site is a little skewed. It shows Texas receiving and average 28 of inches of rainfall per year but where I live near Houston we average 50+" per year.  It has been a very wet year this year, raining almost every day since April and forecast to rain some more later this week.  

Houston got 50+ inches in places in 2-3 days during Harvey alone.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 26, 2021, 10:16:27 AM

You can drill down on that site.

Average Yearly Precipitation for Texas - Current Results (https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Texas/average-yearly-precipitation.php)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2021, 01:36:47 PM

My new book, "Marine Dad".

Took me a while to get back to it.  I wrote half of this a decade back and am just getting to it again.

Paperback is up on Amazon.

(https://i.imgur.com/IRnGXVL.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2021, 11:39:55 AM

Rodney Scott Sets July 27 Opening For The Pitmaster's First Atlanta Restaurant | What Now Atlanta (https://whatnowatlanta.com/rodney-scott-sets-july-27-opening-for-the-pitmasters-first-atlanta-restaurant/)

Y'all now anything about The Pitmaster BBQ place?  Looks interesting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 27, 2021, 11:46:50 AM

menu looks ok, but not strictly BBQ

no beef rib

I'd give it a try

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on July 27, 2021, 11:51:19 AM

We ate at his SC flagship awhile back.   Very pleased. I embrace just about all BBQ styles,  I'm not a zero sum BBQ person, but wouldn't want to be a dope waiting 3 hours for any type of food.   Hopefully that's not a byproduct of him opening up in ATL.
  I try to avoid new restaurants during opening weeks  Don't have shit together, people overrun the place, not for me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 27, 2021, 11:54:00 AM

I always give new places 6 months or more to work out the kinks

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 28, 2021, 09:39:46 AM

July 27th 1976: An SR-71A set an altitude record of 85,068.997 ft and an all time speed over a straight course record of: 2,193.167 miles per hour (3,529.560 km/h))

Pictured: USAF/Brian Shul's view from the flight deck of a Blackbird at 83,000 feet above the surface of our planet.

(https://i.imgur.com/YRwdoj6.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on July 28, 2021, 09:46:38 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 28, 2021, 09:39:46 AM

July 27th 1976: An SR-71A set an altitude record of 85,068.997 ft and an all time speed over a straight course record of: 2,193.167 miles per hour (3,529.560 km/h))

Pictured: USAF/Brian Shul's view from the flight deck of a Blackbird at 83,000 feet above the surface of our planet.

(https://i.imgur.com/YRwdoj6.png)

coolest airplane ever made. Crazy to think it was first made nearly 60 years ago and they haven't built a successor (that we know about) that is leaps and bounds better yet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 28, 2021, 09:50:04 AM

SR-72 Hypersonic Demonstrator Aircraft - Airforce Technology (airforce-technology.com) (https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/sr-72-hypersonic-demonstrator-aircraft/)

It could well be the next one would be unmanned.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 28, 2021, 09:57:13 AM

What's even crazier is that the U2 spy plane which flew first in the late 50's early 60's I think is still in service.  Not near as sophisticated of course.  

I guess the need for the SR-71 was obsoleted mostly by the updated capabilities of spy satellites and the high operational costs.  

Another crazy thing is that the original B-52 Bombers were put in service in the mid 1950's and the last one was built in 1962.  58 are in service, 18 in reserve, and 12 are in long term storage.  They plan to fly them at least until the 2040's at which point some of the airplanes will be 90 years old (the air frame).  Of course they have been refurbished and retrofitted over the years.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on July 28, 2021, 10:50:44 AM

The DC-3 was introduced in 1937.  There are still examples flying in commercial service.

The C-130 was introduced in 1956.  It is still in production.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 28, 2021, 11:59:58 AM

Damn CW where ya been?Good to see you scribbling again

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 28, 2021, 12:12:21 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/3bAXrkc.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 28, 2021, 12:30:44 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 28, 2021, 12:12:21 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/3bAXrkc.png)

Am I missing something? Only 5 conference champs are represented... If we're assuming it's supposed to be the top 6 champs, there either needs to be a PAC-12 team or some other G5 team...  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 28, 2021, 12:38:36 PM

Clemson ISU Bama OSU  Cincy  They would add in another G5 as you say I think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on July 28, 2021, 12:40:30 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on July 28, 2021, 11:59:58 AM

Damn CW where ya been?Good to see you scribbling again

Working, Nubbz.  What I need to be doing now, but the OU/UT move to the SEC has me engaged.
I'll have to drop off again in a couple of weeks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 28, 2021, 12:50:58 PM

Still instructing the youth there in Sooner Country?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on July 28, 2021, 12:57:05 PM

Yep.  I think this will be my last year.  The pandemic made the last year-plus pretty unenjoyable, and I think we'll see a resurgence this year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 28, 2021, 06:05:23 PM

How Bigger and Smaller Wheels Affect Ride, Handling and Performance (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a10033989/how-bigger-and-smaller-wheels-affect-ride-handling-and-performance/?src=socialflowFBRAT&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR0_bpT_KJ4tOZBc2E80XM1B-tx9triE5_vjJu9hFTEjG1GuOlmrGG43NIY)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on July 28, 2021, 06:37:50 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 28, 2021, 06:05:23 PM

How Bigger and Smaller Wheels Affect Ride, Handling and Performance (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a10033989/how-bigger-and-smaller-wheels-affect-ride-handling-and-performance/?src=socialflowFBRAT&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR0_bpT_KJ4tOZBc2E80XM1B-tx9triE5_vjJu9hFTEjG1GuOlmrGG43NIY)

Since the overall wheel-tire diameters were the same, the general performance should be the same.  For example, lower-profile tires on 19" wheels give crisper handling than higher-profile tires on 17" wheels, but the ultimate cornering capability should be about the same.
And that seems to have been the case in that test.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 28, 2021, 10:16:45 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on July 28, 2021, 12:57:05 PM

Yep.  I think this will be my last year.  The pandemic made the last year-plus pretty unenjoyable, and I think we'll see a resurgence this year.

What do you teach?  School now is so different I have a hard time helping my kids with their homework. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on July 29, 2021, 12:46:10 AM

Quote from: Gigem on July 28, 2021, 10:16:45 PM

What do you teach?  School now is so different I have a hard time helping my kids with their homework.

AP U.S. History and American Military History.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 29, 2021, 02:58:39 AM

So I found a $100 dollar poker chip on the casino floor.

I'm not really a "table games" guy. Is that something where I can just waltz up to the cashier, and cash it in? Or am I just completely screwed because you have to somehow sneak it onto the table in order to cash it in though a dealer, underneath a million cameras? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 29, 2021, 08:09:49 AM

I’m not a big gambler but you should be able to waltz in and cash it in. 

If you found it in the casino of origin you should have just cashed it in there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 29, 2021, 09:35:39 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on July 29, 2021, 02:58:39 AM

So I found a $100 dollar poker chip on the casino floor.

I'm not really a "table games" guy. Is that something where I can just waltz up to the cashier, and cash it in? Or am I just completely screwed because you have to somehow sneak it onto the table in order to cash it in though a dealer, underneath a million cameras?

cash it youre rich

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 29, 2021, 09:36:51 AM

folks can even cash in chips from one casino in a different casino

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 29, 2021, 11:14:12 AM

Yeah, it was in the casino of origin, which I am staying at for a few nights via comped room. 

The chip was on the dance floor, no where near the tables. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 29, 2021, 12:56:31 PM

It twerked. 

Transaction complete. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 29, 2021, 12:57:55 PM

I also found the corner of a $100 bill that appears to have been sent through a paper shredder. 

I don't think that they will take that one. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 29, 2021, 01:02:15 PM

The Fed near us used to allow unguuided tours, which I found interesting, and they give you a bag of money when you depart.

Shredded of course.

You can watch autoguided pallets containing $5-20 million rolling past you (behind heavy glass).  They have a panel on inflation, including the largest known note of any kind from Hungary, 1945-6.

Between the end of 1945 and July 1946, Hungary went through the highest inflation ever recorded. In 1944, the highest banknote value was 1,000 pengő. By the end of 1945, it was 10,000,000 pengő, and the highest value in mid-1946 was 100,000,000,000,000,000,000 (10²⁰) pengő.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 29, 2021, 01:07:17 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/bMf9RWe.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 29, 2021, 06:12:01 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/CBZql3l.png)

Back row, left to right: Auguste Piccard, Émile Henriot, Paul Ehrenfest, Édouard Herzen, Théophile de Donder, Erwin Schrödinger, Jules-Émile Verschaffelt, Wolfgang Pauli, Werner Heisenberg, Ralph Howard Fowler, Léon Brillouin.
Middle row, left to right: Peter Debye, Martin Knudsen, William Lawrence Bragg, Hendrik Anthony Kramers, Paul Dirac, Arthur Compton, Louis de Broglie, Max Born, Niels Bohr.
Front row, left to right: Irving Langmuir, Max Planck, Marie Skłodowska Curie, Hendrik Lorentz, Albert Einstein, Paul Langevin, Charles-Eugène Guye, Charles Thomson Rees Wilson, Owen Willans Richardson.

17 Nobel laureates together at the Solway Conference.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 29, 2021, 07:45:38 PM

I discovered what COULD be a pretty decent upper scale Mexican place:

February 2021 (casicieloatl.com) (https://casicieloatl.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/February-2021.pdf)

Wagyu steak is $75.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 30, 2021, 08:36:39 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 23, 2021, 04:05:33 PM

I might have asked already, but have you ever been to the WWII museum in New Orleans. If not, it's a must-go experience.

Unfortunately, I have not. I was in northern Louisiana earlier this year but did not have time to get to the big easy. But hopefully, in the next couple of years I will make my way there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 30, 2021, 11:36:17 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/9qeKDBu.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/GfJA9yO.png)   (https://i.imgur.com/70IYGqj.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 30, 2021, 12:37:51 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 29, 2021, 07:45:38 PM

I discovered what COULD be a pretty decent upper scale Mexican place:

February 2021 (casicieloatl.com) (https://casicieloatl.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/February-2021.pdf)

Wagyu steak is $75. 

purchasing a Wagyu steak to grill in your kitchen can cost that much or more
I'd try it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 30, 2021, 02:01:55 PM

Wagyu at my local Costco is $99/lb. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 30, 2021, 02:08:32 PM

this feedlot is about 30 minutes from me

all sold out at $60/lb

https://ilovewagyu.com/collections/all (https://ilovewagyu.com/collections/all)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 30, 2021, 02:13:14 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 30, 2021, 02:08:32 PM

this feedlot is about 30 minutes from me

all sold out at $60/lb

https://ilovewagyu.com/collections/all (https://ilovewagyu.com/collections/all)

man to pay that much there would have to be a naked lady sit on my lap while I ate it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 30, 2021, 02:20:32 PM

hah, you have to grill it yourself

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 30, 2021, 03:32:48 PM

Wife and I went to Mastro's Ocean Club last weekend to celebrate my job, and they did have Wagyu on the menu. 8 oz for $150 or 10 oz for $175...

I did not order wagyu.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Thumper on July 30, 2021, 04:08:23 PM

Sheriff attacked by flying dildo (https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3dwey/sheriff-attacked-by-a-flying-dildo-riding-a-drone?fbclid=IwAR1PgnCDvkvF7WQliO0Gw5DDOC1Ic8YsiZQH7bNROxZWb1wA8YfnILsEysw).  Not a headline I've seen before.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 30, 2021, 04:46:27 PM

App State vs. Michigan: The Upset That Changed Boone, North Carolina | Fanbuzz (https://fanbuzz.com/college-football/app-state-vs-michigan-2007/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=agora&utm_term=cfb&utm_campaign=cfb&fbclid=IwAR3heWO72bOJ3hn1EdHy99iYRavZj1QVm4msmFm3i0FvaDHUKBR1tKinXoI)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 30, 2021, 04:48:44 PM

Welcome | Semper Fi Bar & Grille - Woodstock, Georgia (semperfibarandgrille.com) (https://www.semperfibarandgrille.com/)

Had lunch here after visiting the Eyes of Freedom exhibit in Acworth, GA today.

The Eyes of Freedom: Lima Company Memorial : Lima Company Memorial (https://www.limacompanymemorial.org/)

They have some new panels that really help involve the audience, and this sculpture.

(https://i.imgur.com/CKevYU3.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 30, 2021, 06:00:03 PM

Made reservation Monday at Casa Cielo, good news is they had nothing available before that.

Menu looks really good, we'll report back.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 30, 2021, 06:08:42 PM

menu does look good

drink menu too

All Mezcales are served with crafted verdita, house made

grasshopper salt and orange slices

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 31, 2021, 10:37:52 AM

Bacon may disappear in California as pig rules take effect

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) — Thanks to a reworked menu and long hours, Jeannie Kim managed to keep her San Francisco restaurant alive during the coronavirus pandemic.

That makes it all the more frustrating that she fears her breakfast-focused diner could be ruined within months by new rules that could make one of her top menu items — bacon — hard to get in California.

“Our number one seller is bacon, eggs and hash browns,” said Kim, who for 15 years has run SAMS American Eatery on the city’s busy Market Street. “It could be devastating for us.”

At the beginning of next year, California will begin enforcing an animal welfare proposition approved overwhelmingly by voters in 2018 that requires more space for breeding pigs, egg-laying chickens and veal calves. National veal and egg producers are optimistic they can meet the new standards, but only 4% of hog operations now comply with the new rules. Unless the courts intervene or the state temporarily allows non-compliant meat to be sold in the state, California will lose almost all of its pork supply, much of which comes from Iowa, and pork producers will face higher costs to regain a key market.


https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-business-health-california-coronavirus-pandemic-5ebe70407fcd94ef712c16410f32c4b1 (https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-business-health-california-coronavirus-pandemic-5ebe70407fcd94ef712c16410f32c4b1)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 31, 2021, 11:38:27 AM

Torches and pitchforks ordered on Amazon...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 31, 2021, 11:54:14 AM

So we are going to have to change the name of Canadian Bacon to California Bacon? 

(https://az810478.vo.msecnd.net/media/images/default-source/Products/bacon/6-oz-cb.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 31, 2021, 12:06:08 PM

WTH California?  You big buncha weirdos!

(Cue MDot to come and rant about that failed state...)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 31, 2021, 01:18:40 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 31, 2021, 10:37:52 AM

Bacon may disappear in California as pig rules take effect
 California will lose almost all of its pork supply, much of which comes from Iowa, and pork producers will face higher costs to regain a key market.

https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-business-health-california-coronavirus-pandemic-5ebe70407fcd94ef712c16410f32c4b1 (https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-business-health-california-coronavirus-pandemic-5ebe70407fcd94ef712c16410f32c4b1)

Sell it to China it's a win-win much better than bat - or so I'm told

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 31, 2021, 01:39:23 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 31, 2021, 12:06:08 PM

WTH California?  You big buncha weirdos!

(Cue MDot to come and rant about that failed state...)

California doesnt deserve bacon

its too good for em

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 31, 2021, 01:58:19 PM

What about "back bacon"? 

(https://eshop.checkersfs.co.za/content/images/thumbs/0006505_newstylepork-frozen-back-bacon-box-6-x-1kg_540.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 31, 2021, 02:02:31 PM

My favorite chicken place is closed due to not being able to find staffing.  Note said they hope to reopen next month.

Mukja.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on July 31, 2021, 02:09:16 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 31, 2021, 02:02:31 PM

My favorite chicken place is closed due to not being able to find staffing.  Note said they hope to reopen next month.

Mukja.

Our favorite casual italian place did too...3 months ago...they just closed last week.

The last time we ate in person there was the weekend in March 2020 when everything was shutting down, and we wondered if what we were doing was stupid.  Glad we got one last meal in there.  We got take out a couple times to support them, but it didn't age well after 20 minutes in the car in a to go container.  But we were happy to do it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 31, 2021, 03:23:48 PM

Some places here closed and are gone, but more are opening now faster than any are closing.  There is a labor shortage partially because so many new places are opening.

A new food court just opened a few weeks back, it has been very popular thus far.

Politan Row at Colony Square (https://atlanta.politanrow.com/)

Farm Burger reopened, they told us they would have sooner but couldn't secure staffing.  I had $100 in gift cards from there (via Costco for $75), so I'm glad they are back, and their burgers are pretty solid.  A friend is opening a new place near the food court "soon", he also tells me getting staffing is his biggest issue.  He has a web site, but no restaurant.  

Saints + Council - Midtown, Atlanta, Atlanta, GA (saintsandcouncil.com) (https://saintsandcouncil.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 01, 2021, 10:39:50 AM

We were luncheoning in the Semper Fi Bar the other day and the TVs had the Olympics on, and I was pondering why I didn't care about them.  They were showing a badminton competition.  OK, so maybe the athletes are top drawer and excellent at the sport.

I'm sure they are, I just don't care, at all, about that a many other sports.  I do like curling because it makes no sense.

There are so many events now I have lost interest in the whole thing.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 01, 2021, 03:08:35 PM

We had lunch out yesterday and today, at half decent places.  I am really noticing a trend of incompetence among the various workers.  Or perhaps they are poorly trained and brand new.  I know places are really struggling to hire anyone.

We went to a casual fish place today where you fill out a card with your order and hand it to the cashier.  I ordered fish and chips and a drink, that's it.  It took him over a minute to enter the order into his computer, and then he got it wrong and had to call the manager.  It's a place where you get a frequent dining card and he messed that up as well.

Well,yesterday we had lunch at Blue India which is very very good and the server was competent, and Indian.  The day before was a quasi-disaster.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on August 01, 2021, 05:10:28 PM

MTV was launched 40 years ago today.  

I'd like to thank them for 15 years of music.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on August 01, 2021, 05:16:30 PM

Twas as influential as any social media platform today

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 01, 2021, 05:31:38 PM

Video killed the radio star.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 01, 2021, 05:39:02 PM

I don't recall ever watching MTV, probably caught some youtubes of something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 01, 2021, 07:36:33 PM

(https://i.imgflip.com/znglk.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 01, 2021, 07:38:41 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 01, 2021, 05:31:38 PM

Video killed the radio star.

Yes.

Once you see the video, you can't unsee it.  That video--stupid, skanky, disgusting, whatever--becomes that song for you.

There's an ever-shrinking area of life in which we have to use our imaginations.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on August 01, 2021, 08:08:43 PM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on August 01, 2021, 05:10:28 PM

MTV was launched 40 years ago today. 

I'd like to thank them for 15 years of music.

That's not that far off.  I think during high school for me it really started pivoting.  I graduated 19 years ago, so it was definitely <20 years

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 01, 2021, 11:03:18 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/5acys1b.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/1s4Wi8n.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 02, 2021, 08:32:54 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 31, 2021, 01:39:23 PM

California doesnt deserve bacon

its too good for em

I'd be fine with sending them all the turkey bacon they want.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 02, 2021, 10:14:50 AM

I totally grew up in the MTV era. We would go to friends houses and watch videos for days. We would all talk about all the new videos at school. Not everybody had cable in those days so sometimes we picked where we hung out just by who did and didn’t have mtv. 

Beavis and Butthead was really a major thing during my high school years. I feel sorry now for all the teachers who had to endure all the “heh heh he said butt” jokes. 

I’m not sure exactly when it changed but it seems like about the year 2000 they started really focusing on reality shows and such. 

Great time to grow up. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 02, 2021, 10:54:05 AM

Quote from: Gigem on August 02, 2021, 10:14:50 AM

I totally grew up in the MTV era. We would go to friends houses and watch videos for days. We would all talk about all the new videos at school. Not everybody had cable in those days so sometimes we picked where we hung out just by who did and didn’t have mtv.

Beavis and Butthead was really a major thing during my high school years. I feel sorry now for all the teachers who had to endure all the “heh heh he said butt” jokes.

I’m not sure exactly when it changed but it seems like about the year 2000 they started really focusing on reality shows and such.

Great time to grow up.

I wonder... How much different would pop culture be today if someone time-traveled back to 1992 and stopped this from happening:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Real_World_(TV_series)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 02, 2021, 11:19:31 AM

Yeah, it was late 90s. They launched MTV2 for music videos, and MTV became reality TV. Then at some point they quit showing videos on MTV2 as well. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 02, 2021, 11:54:00 AM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 01, 2021, 07:38:41 PM

Yes.

Once you see the video, you can't unsee it.  That video--stupid, skanky, disgusting, whatever--becomes that song for you.

There's an ever-shrinking area of life in which we have to use our imaginations.

You don't need to worry about this one anymore, because nobody watches music videos nowadays.  Reality shows killed the video star.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 02, 2021, 12:13:01 PM

Well they are all available on you tube "on demand," so why on Earth would anybody want to watch them on TV with commercials and no control over which one they play? 

you tube killed the video channel. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2021, 12:23:28 PM

Eyes of Freedom: Our History - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfvDKUYjlkg&list=PLQ9oiJFuVNj4m6orOXcT6OvdF4APZrNZM)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 03, 2021, 11:56:21 AM

He gone.

New York Gov. Cuomo Sexually Harassed Multiple Women, Investigation Finds - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-gov-cuomo-sexually-harassed-multiple-women-investigation-finds-11628003894?mod=djemalertNEWS)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 03, 2021, 12:59:53 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 03, 2021, 11:56:21 AM

He gone.

New York Gov. Cuomo Sexually Harassed Multiple Women, Investigation Finds - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-gov-cuomo-sexually-harassed-multiple-women-investigation-finds-11628003894?mod=djemalertNEWS)

A Democrat from New York who loves to get handsy with women and never accepts responsibility? Maybe this is his audition for the Republican nomination.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 03, 2021, 01:14:34 PM

Or law school
(https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-17-2015/hTdiW6.gif) (https://media3.giphy.com/media/dVtGcobFMRXO0/200.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 03, 2021, 01:16:11 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/XnNPdH1.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 03, 2021, 01:17:30 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 03, 2021, 12:59:53 PM

A Democrat from New York who loves to get handsy with women and never accepts responsibility? Maybe this is his audition for the Republican nomination.

Why go there? The list of sexual predators in DC/Government would fill a book as thick as the Bible, with smaller print.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2021, 01:20:37 PM

The Cuomo thing doesn't strike me as being a partisan situation, unless you make it so.  We have seen many on both sides charged with such misbehaviors, including the current President.  People in power can start to feel they are above the rules we minions follow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 03, 2021, 01:20:52 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 03, 2021, 12:59:53 PM

A Democrat from New York who loves to get handsy with women and never accepts responsibility? Maybe this is his audition for the Republican nomination.

Meh.  He is perfect fit where he is. Dem.  Will deny responsibility, be propped up by his friends and brother in the media, as some kind of hero, will not be held accountable, And will publicly chastise the first Republican that gets accused of this with his holier than thou bull jive he is always streaming, like he did in the Fake Kavanaugh accusations.  

New Yorkers love that style.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 03, 2021, 01:24:14 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 03, 2021, 01:17:30 PM

Why go there? The list of sexual predators in DC/Government would fill a book as thick as the Bible, with smaller print. 

(https://i.imgur.com/2TU8OfX.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 03, 2021, 01:29:07 PM

AUSTRALIAN MUSLIMS REQUEST BIKINI BAN..

At Bondi beach, Muslims request BEACH BAN of "BIKINIS" DURING RAMADAN:








(https://i.imgur.com/WkvdNjn.png)






AUSSIES REPLY WITH..........
(https://i.imgur.com/tRN7xUi.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 03, 2021, 01:45:20 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 03, 2021, 01:24:14 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/2TU8OfX.png)

This is why it’s so hard to take these clowns seriously. I don’t know if this is truly a real picture but it fits the mold. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on August 03, 2021, 01:53:20 PM

I don't think there are any criminal charges there so would be surprised if Cuomo resigns or is removed by the legislature.   Cuomo's defense and any settlements will be paid for with NY taxpayer funds.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 03, 2021, 01:55:58 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on August 03, 2021, 01:53:20 PM

I don't think there are any criminal charges there so would be surprised if Cuomo resigns or is removed by the legislature.  Cuomo's defense and any settlements will be paid for with NY taxpayer funds.

Would that be the case if he were impeached and removed?

Illinois taxpayers didn't have to foot the bill for Blago after he was removed. Maybe NY is different.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 03, 2021, 01:57:30 PM

Quote from: Gigem on August 03, 2021, 01:45:20 PM

This is why it’s so hard to take these clowns seriously. I don’t know if this is truly a real picture but it fits the mold.

That's definitely her head but she was a he.There were actual photos from the news wonks with its family.Made the Munsters look like the Waltons

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on August 03, 2021, 02:05:29 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 03, 2021, 01:55:58 PM

Would that be the case if he were impeached and removed?

Illinois taxpayers didn't have to foot the bill for Blago after he was removed. Maybe NY is different.

Not sure if he's impeached.  I was referring to him being sued while still governor.  I will be surprised if he is impeached.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 03, 2021, 07:21:56 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/7JQV04Y.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2021, 08:40:36 AM

I don't want to go to jail, so I'm posting this here:

"They don't tell us. We try to do investigations. Sometimes we have gotten some documents and put 2 and 2 together. They do fly in… unaccompanied minors and a lot of military age males coming through the border," he said. "We have law enforcement there helping Governor Abbott. They said of the illegal border crossers they come in contact with, a majority of them want to end up in Florida. We are working on strategies to be able to deter that."

- Ron DeSantis, 2021-08-05

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2021, 08:55:54 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2021, 08:40:36 AM

I don't want to go to jail, so I'm posting this here:

"They don't tell us. We try to do investigations. Sometimes we have gotten some documents and put 2 and 2 together. They do fly in… unaccompanied minors and a lot of military age males coming through the border," he said. "We have law enforcement there helping Governor Abbott. They said of the illegal border crossers they come in contact with, a majority of them want to end up in Florida. We are working on strategies to be able to deter that."

- Ron DeSantis, 2021-08-05

Nice Badge- but facts don’t work when you are debating some who actually said “BLM is a Humanitarian organization”

at that point you just have to realize that some live in an alternative reality.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 05, 2021, 09:06:21 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2021, 08:55:54 AM

Nice Badge- but facts don’t work when you are debating some who actually said “BLM is a Humanitarian organization”

at that point you just have to realize that some live in an alternative reality.

BLM is a humanitarian organization. That is literally what it is.

Also, since my last post got obliterated, the idea that the federal government is just busing hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens to Florida isn't accurate. No doubt, there are some (legal) aliens being transported there - but not in massive numbers. This is just politicking by politicians. When all else fails, blame immigrants.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 05, 2021, 09:11:53 AM

I personally don't view BLM as "humanitarian" at all, maybe some of the local branches want to be that.

What are they doing that could be considered humanitarian at the national level?  I suppose buying multiple houses could be that for the sellers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 05, 2021, 09:12:55 AM

I guess it matters whether you think black people are humans

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 05, 2021, 09:28:58 AM

I would guess illegal border crossers are being transported to almost every state that isn't on the border

perhaps not Alaska and/or Hawaii

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 05, 2021, 09:30:43 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 05, 2021, 09:12:55 AM

I guess it matters whether you think black people are humans

I also think Cubans are humans

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 05, 2021, 09:33:00 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 05, 2021, 09:12:55 AM

I guess it matters whether you think black people are humans

It being the lady buying up three houses?  

What other humanitarian act has national BLM done?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2021, 09:35:56 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 05, 2021, 09:12:55 AM

I guess it matters whether you think black people are humans

Of course they are, and I for one would be willing to continue to do anything possible to help them. So would my wife.

Of course, they would have to accept the help. That was the hardest part. Too many don't trust us. I saw it. She saw it.

How to break that barrier? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2021, 09:37:53 AM

No political activist group is humanitarian


Especially one who’s calling card has been violence, looting, burning down police stations, federal buildings, bank branches, assaulting people in packs,  and one where one of their main propositions is destruction of the basic nuclear family.

Sorry you don’t get to hide behind the “black“ thing.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 05, 2021, 09:41:01 AM

Photo tour: Swanky new tower lends fresh perspectives on downtown ATL | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/downtown-apartments-for-rent-photos-ascent-peachtree)

$6500 rent downtown?  Not for me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 05, 2021, 09:41:41 AM

not for most

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 05, 2021, 09:42:54 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 05, 2021, 09:33:00 AM

It being the lady buying up three houses? 

What other humanitarian act has national BLM done?

There were many protests, all over the country. Since this came about as comparing to when the United States was protesting acts by Russia by boycotting the Olympics, seems as if protest is an action. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 05, 2021, 09:43:20 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2021, 09:35:56 AM

Of course they are, and I for one would be willing to continue to do anything possible to help them. So would my wife.

Of course, they would have to accept the help. That was the hardest part. Too many don't trust us. I saw it. She saw it.

How to break that barrier?

$$$$$$$

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 05, 2021, 09:44:52 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2021, 09:37:53 AM

No political activist group is humanitarian


Especially one who’s calling card has been violence, looting, burning down police stations, federal buildings, bank branches, assaulting people in packs,  and one where one of their main propositions is destruction of the basic nuclear family.

Sorry you don’t get to hide behind the “black“ thing. 

How about protests to modify policy of the government towards black people? That happened. Is that allowed? Isn't protesting the treatment of a people by a government a pretty common humanitarian movement?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 05, 2021, 09:46:15 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 05, 2021, 09:42:54 AM

There were many protests, all over the country. Since this came about as comparing to when the United States was protesting acts by Russia by boycotting the Olympics, seems as if protest is an action.

I have a different view of "humanitarian" acts, I suppose.

Plenty of things are actions without being humanitarian.  And the protests by and large were not orchestrated by some national entity, they just happened locally.  And some of course ended up being very anti-humanitarian in any sense of the term.

What has National BLM done to help anyone?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2021, 09:47:56 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 05, 2021, 09:06:21 AM

BLM is a humanitarian organization. That is literally what it is.

Also, since my last post got obliterated, the idea that the federal government is just busing hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens to Florida isn't accurate. No doubt, there are some (legal) aliens being transported there - but not in massive numbers. This is just politicking by politicians. When all else fails, blame immigrants.

Nobody said the federal government is paying for the bussing. 

How can you take the claim that they care about covid rates or even science when they are allowing unobstructed border crossings?  You can’t.

when all else fails, and the nation is laughing at your CDC guidance, flip flopping, horrible messaging-blame the Red States- and ignore the
”hero’s” negligence with covid and nursing homes- and distract from him being nailed for being a predator. 

Standard media playbook lol. “ Hey- look over there at Desantis”!  😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 05, 2021, 09:48:37 AM

did BLM bail some people out of jail?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 05, 2021, 09:49:49 AM

I personally view the national BLM organization as a corrupt money grubbing operation that doesn't help anyone at all, and actively damages race relations and anything else.

But surely they have done SOMETHING positive for someone somewhere.  Maybe.

Helped with rent?  Helped with schooling?  Helped someone somewhere? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 05, 2021, 09:50:50 AM

The Biden administration is taking the first steps toward requiring nearly all international visitors to the U.S. to be vaccinated for the coronavirus.

That’s according to a White House official who spoke on the condition of anonymity to preview the policy under development. The requirement would come as part of the administration’s phased approach to easing restrictions for foreign travelers to the country. No timeline has yet been determined.

Interagency working groups are studying how and when to safely move toward resuming normal travel. Eventually all international citizens entering the country, with some limited exceptions, are expected to need to be vaccinated against COVID-19 to enter the U.S.


https://apnews.com/article/2020-tokyo-olympics-joe-biden-health-coronavirus-pandemic-coronavirus-vaccine-c2712b56c0464ec0b95c41cd18cc38dd (https://apnews.com/article/2020-tokyo-olympics-joe-biden-health-coronavirus-pandemic-coronavirus-vaccine-c2712b56c0464ec0b95c41cd18cc38dd)

this should help Texas, Cali, and Florida ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2021, 09:51:11 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 05, 2021, 09:44:52 AM

How about protests to modify policy of the government towards black people? That happened. Is that allowed? Isn't protesting the treatment of a people by a government a pretty common humanitarian movement?

You could say the same about the peaceful protest at the capitol.  

you see how this works?  Everyone is on to it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2021, 09:52:58 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 05, 2021, 09:50:50 AM

The Biden administration is taking the first steps toward requiring nearly all international visitors to the U.S. to be vaccinated for the coronavirus.

That’s according to a White House official who spoke on the condition of anonymity to preview the policy under development. The requirement would come as part of the administration’s phased approach to easing restrictions for foreign travelers to the country. No timeline has yet been determined.

Interagency working groups are studying how and when to safely move toward resuming normal travel. Eventually all international citizens entering the country, with some limited exceptions, are expected to need to be vaccinated against COVID-19 to enter the U.S.


https://apnews.com/article/2020-tokyo-olympics-joe-biden-health-coronavirus-pandemic-coronavirus-vaccine-c2712b56c0464ec0b95c41cd18cc38dd (https://apnews.com/article/2020-tokyo-olympics-joe-biden-health-coronavirus-pandemic-coronavirus-vaccine-c2712b56c0464ec0b95c41cd18cc38dd)

this should help Texas, Cali, and Florida ;)

Sounds great.  Let see if it applies to the people crossing illegally- who have no intention of being visitors. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 05, 2021, 09:53:36 AM

we ALL know the answer to THAT

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 05, 2021, 10:09:39 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 05, 2021, 09:06:21 AM

BLM is a humanitarian organization. That is literally what it is.

C'mon Sam would you wish those contemptible,anarchist, hacks have an exercise in your neighborhood? In Cleveland they were smashing bus shelters,and Forget how many Horses in the mounted units were injured. Because as we all know those horses and bus shelters had it coming - and for quite some time. This isn't a political statement,Wanton violence and vandalism is their M.O. Do you think in their practices would fly in Beijing,Moscow, Saudi Arabia or Singapore? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 05, 2021, 10:34:17 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 05, 2021, 09:43:20 AM

$$$$$$$

pay attention in school and exert ones self and that can happen.Into this world we're thrown sang the DOORS,one can only control/process what is in front of you at least somewhat. You have much to say inside your immediate houshold/family outside of that everyone is pretty much on their own.Unless one is mentally disabled,there is no excuse for not developing one's work ethics or abilities

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2021, 11:21:02 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 05, 2021, 09:43:20 AM

$$$$$$$

Been doing that for 80+ years.

Wrong answer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 05, 2021, 11:46:17 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 05, 2021, 09:41:01 AM

Photo tour: Swanky new tower lends fresh perspectives on downtown ATL | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/downtown-apartments-for-rent-photos-ascent-peachtree)

$6500 rent downtown?  Not for me.

Old Fourth Ward shortlisted as one of 'America's hottest neighborhoods' | Urbanize Atlanta

 (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/old-fourth-ward-beltline-americas-hottest-neighborhoods)The pandemic delayed some projects, but no more, things are really hot around here.  This is a common street scene.

(https://i.imgur.com/6TJTIrS.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 05, 2021, 01:36:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 05, 2021, 09:46:15 AM

I have a different view of "humanitarian" acts, I suppose.

Plenty of things are actions without being humanitarian.  And the protests by and large were not orchestrated by some national entity, they just happened locally.  And some of course ended up being very anti-humanitarian in any sense of the term.

What has National BLM done to help anyone?

I mean, I don't know, I don't follow the national organization. But they if they aren't doing anything they also aren't causing riots, so clearly people aren't talking about them. The BLM that most people refer to is the very loose collection of protests related to policing of black people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 05, 2021, 01:39:42 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2021, 09:51:11 AM

You could say the same about the peaceful protest at the capitol. 

you see how this works?  Everyone is on to it.

You can say what you want. But the idea that people didn't protest peacefully is false. There have been literally hundreds of protests. Lots of people made a point to do them peacefully. To paint them with a broad brush as all involving riots and violence is factually wrong and really, very unfair to the thousands of people who exercised their rights.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2021, 01:43:05 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 05, 2021, 01:39:42 PM

You can say what you want. But the idea that people didn't protest peacefully is false. There have been literally hundreds of protests. Lots of people made a point to do them peacefully. To paint them with a broad brush as all involving riots and violence is factually wrong and really, very unfair to the thousands of people who exercised their rights.

Agreed.  And that broad brush works both ways. 
when people caught in the act of throwing lit Molotov cocktails into an occupied police vehicle are bailed out by politicians, and people caught in the act of lighting fires, throwing ice bottles at police or beating people up, are not prosecuted or bailed out because they are “peaceful protesters“ then the broad brush is working the other way. 

I saw many many peaceful protests and peaceful protesters and I have not seen anyone have a problem with that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 05, 2021, 01:43:08 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2021, 11:21:02 AM

Been doing that for 80+ years.

Wrong answer.

I definitely, 100 percent, disagree with that. The amount that has been taken has far, far exceeded the amount given.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2021, 02:05:17 PM

The answer to solving problems does not begin with throwing money at the problems.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 05, 2021, 02:11:10 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2021, 02:05:17 PM

The answer to solving problems does not begin with throwing money at the problems.

When someone sues, they are usually alleging a harm has been done and money will fix it. That's been a pretty large part of American society for a long time. Further, the actual problem is that lives and property has been taken unfairly for hundreds of years, and this causes people to be a heck of a lot poorer than they should be. So, I think throwing money at the problem is the easiest and really only fix.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 05, 2021, 02:14:08 PM

there's far too much suing someone or something and passing money around IMO 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2021, 02:54:32 PM

It all starts with family and education.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 05, 2021, 03:25:41 PM

Here's the type of thing I like to see

https://www.dailybreeze.com/2021/07/13/la-county-to-proceed-with-plan-for-returning-bruces-beach-to-family/

"Los Angeles County is moving forward with a plan to return two parcels of oceanfront land in Manhattan Beach to the family of the original Black owners."

"The land the county is working to return was the site of Bruce’s Beach Lodge, which provided a recreational haven for Black people during the early part of the 20th century, at a time when African Americans lacked access to the coast. But Manhattan Beach then used eminent domain to take over the two parcels owned by Willa and Charles Bruce, as well as other properties. Much of the land the city took over became open green space, eventually renamed Bruce’s Beach Park. The two parcels on which the resort sat are now owned by Los Angeles County and have a lifeguard station on it."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 05, 2021, 03:30:29 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 05, 2021, 02:11:10 PM

When someone sues, they are usually alleging a harm has been done and money will fix it. That's been a pretty large part of American society for a long time. Further, the actual problem is that lives and property has been taken unfairly for hundreds of years, and this causes people to be a heck of a lot poorer than they should be. So, I think throwing money at the problem is the easiest and really only fix.

I disagree. Sometimes there are things money just can’t fix. In those instances they’re suing for revenge. 

wrongful death comes to mind. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 05, 2021, 03:58:59 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2021, 08:40:36 AM

I don't want to go to jail, so I'm posting this here:

"They don't tell us. We try to do investigations. Sometimes we have gotten some documents and put 2 and 2 together. They do fly in… unaccompanied minors and a lot of military age males coming through the border," he said. "We have law enforcement there helping Governor Abbott. They said of the illegal border crossers they come in contact with, a majority of them want to end up in Florida. We are working on strategies to be able to deter that."

- Ron DeSantis, 2021-08-05

On the one hand, I don’t particularly believe this, I would like to see some receipts.

On the other, Floridians on this board have been bragging for years about how everyone wants to live there. So I guess that part makes sense.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2021, 04:51:43 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 05, 2021, 03:58:59 PM

On the one hand, I don’t particularly believe this, I would like to see some receipts.

On the other, Floridians on this board have been bragging for years about how everyone wants to live there. So I guess that part makes sense.

We're going to find out very soon. Demographics on hospitalizations will tell the story, in a few weeks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 05, 2021, 05:17:09 PM

The majority could want to end up in Florida.  Whether they do or not could be a separate issue.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 05, 2021, 06:06:49 PM

I don't trust DeSantis to put 2 and 2 together.
I can't seem to figure out how many or what percentage "a lot" is.  Maybe he can tell us.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2021, 06:17:00 PM

The Governor is a very smart man. 

There is a reason Florida is getting 1200 (legal) people moving here per day, mostly from New York, California and Illinois.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 05, 2021, 06:32:10 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2021, 06:17:00 PM

The Governor is a very smart man.

If only 'trust' had anything to do with this.  When did ethics cease to be a thing?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2021, 06:49:13 PM

So if you don’t believe him, which I can’t fault you for ( being that I myself rarely believe high level political people) I am curious what you do believe / regarding people crossing the border now.

Not a smart- ass question- quite sincere. 

How many are getting in? How many are getting caught and release for a court date? Of those that get through and stay- where are they going?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2021, 06:53:43 PM

Just looking at some of the vaccination rates for developing nations- it is both sad and scary.  

Also- have read of Delta outbreaks at the border - with positive tests being in the 80-90% range.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2021, 06:55:14 PM

Could we mandate and give them vaccination, like is being done for international travelers coming in?

Should we?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2021, 07:06:49 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 05, 2021, 06:06:49 PM

I don't trust DeSantis to put 2 and 2 together.
I can't seem to figure out how many or what percentage "a lot" is.  Maybe he can tell us.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/over-unaccompanied-migrant-kids-border-single-day-numbers-surge
Health and Human Services numbers. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 05, 2021, 07:51:40 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2021, 06:49:13 PM

So if you don’t believe him, which I can’t fault you for ( being that I myself rarely believe high level political people) I am curious what you do believe / regarding people crossing the border now.

Not a smart- ass question- quite sincere. 

How many are getting in? How many are getting caught and release for a court date? Of those that get through and stay- where are they going?

I don't know.
And neither does anyone else.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2021, 09:06:24 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 05, 2021, 07:51:40 PM

I don't know.
And neither does anyone else. 

You really believe that?  

if that is true- isn’t that a potentially enormous problem for covid containment ( among other things)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 05, 2021, 09:48:02 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2021, 06:17:00 PM

The Governor is a very smart man.

There is a reason Florida is getting 1200 (legal) people moving here per day, mostly from New York, California and Illinois.

Best Governor in the USA by a god damn 100 miles.

He's kept this state open, great & growing, the people working, and the opportunities to make money and create business flowing. Why the hell do you think everyone is escaping those failing liberal shitholes to come to Florida lol?

Even Disney is saying "hey we need to gtfo shithole California" - Disney is moving 2,000+ high paying jobs from California to Orlando (avg salary of $125k+ per year) with plans to move more.

Every major real estate firm, investment firm, hotshot nightclub, and restaurant from NYC are opening shop in South Florida right now. It's insane. And the latest "key to NYC vaccine passport" initiviate that fake Italian f*kface De Blasio implemented is only going to make the NYC exodus happen even faster. NYC is a sinking shithole, never coming back again. It's sad. All thanks to god awful leadership from a rapist elderly murdering Italian and a phony Italian dweeb.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 05, 2021, 09:55:03 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 05, 2021, 09:48:02 PM

Best Governor in the USA by a god damn 100 miles.

He's kept this state open, great & growing, the people working, and the opportunities to make money and create business flowing. Why the hell do you think everyone is escaping those failing liberal shitholes to come to Florida lol?

Even Disney is saying "hey we need to gtfo shithole California" - Disney is moving 2,000+ high paying jobs from California to Orlando (avg salary of $125k+ per year) with plans to move more.

Every major real estate firm, investment firm, hotshot nightclub, and restaurant from NYC are opening shop in South Florida right now. It's insane. And the latest "key to NYC vaccine passport" initiviate that fake Italian f*kface De Blasio implemented is only going to make the NYC exodus happen even faster. NYC is a sinking shithole, never coming back again. It's sad. All thanks to god awful leadership from a rapist elderly murdering Italian and a phony Italian dweeb.

Florida. The next California.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 05, 2021, 10:00:51 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 05, 2021, 09:55:03 PM

Florida. The next California.

Certainly is when it comes to real estate prices. The high-end residential market especially- which has always been insane down here- is just going bananas. Sale prices are putting anything in California to shame.

Palm Beach island alone- a tiny island which has maybe 2,000 homes total- has had I believe 30 some odd homes in the last year alone have sold for over $40 million. With 9 or 10 of them cracking $100 million. There is one about to go up for sale at $200+ million and it'll sell at that price. Watch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 05, 2021, 10:56:27 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 05, 2021, 09:48:02 PM

Best Governor in the USA by a god damn 100 miles.

He's kept this state open, great & growing, the people working, and the opportunities to make money and create business flowing. 

I keep forgetting that this is the most important thing, with all the news updates of dead people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2021, 11:05:39 PM

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 05, 2021, 11:13:26 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2021, 11:05:39 PM

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/

Florida wasnt even in the top 10

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 05, 2021, 11:26:51 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2021, 06:17:00 PM

The Governor is a very smart man.

There is a reason Florida is getting 1200 (legal) people moving here per day, mostly from New York, California and Illinois.

My friend, there are primarily two reasons. And the man in charge did not eliminate the income tax (been that way since before any of us were born), nor did he make it a place without winter. 

This is not to speak on his politics or whatnot. But that place has been where NYers have been going forever. Not sure about Illinois. Ca I think is in large part rising taxes, but also a more interconnected world. It's never been more easy to be a continent away and feel like you're not (signed, someone a continent away from home who acknowledges he won't be able to afford his way back unless he inherits a house). 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2021, 11:27:45 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 05, 2021, 11:13:26 PM

Florida wasnt even in the top 10

You should see what it looks like when you do Red v Blue states.     

it’s like the MSM has been living in opposite world. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 05, 2021, 11:30:10 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2021, 11:27:45 PM

You should see what it looks like when you do Red v Blue states.   

it’s like the MSM has been living in opposite world.

I did it in my head

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2021, 11:43:47 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 05, 2021, 11:26:51 PM

My friend, there are primarily two reasons. And the man in charge did not eliminate the income tax (been that way since before any of us were born), nor did he make it a place without winter.

This is not to speak on his politics or whatnot. But that place has been where NYers have been going forever. Not sure about Illinois. Ca I think is in large part rising taxes, but also a more interconnected world. It's never been more easy to be a continent away and feel like you're not (signed, someone a continent away from home who acknowledges he won't be able to afford his way back unless he inherits a house).

Have to disagree.  And believe me- I wish people weren’t flooding in here

Came in in January of 16. Was recruited to a job I really liked.  I live in an area where people “winter” so it was seasonal.  Bustling December- April, deserted the rest of the year.

it’s not like that now.  Bustling would be a 5 level downgrade. People are moving here at a pace none of the locals can believe.  And they are starting businesses- in many cases moving their business.  I talk to these people- I have to for my job.  I also talk to them casually like when I dine out or golf, etc.

it goes way beyond no personal income tax.  The business climate is welcoming, including taxes, the housing and new construction market is robust, and other industries are ripping it. 

But people are leaving the big cities in fear of crime, higher taxes, anti law enforcement craziness- all the things you see on video.

Yes- Florida has been a destination for a long time- but the intense pace going on is other worldly and that started shortly after the pandemic. There are tangible reasons people are leaving one place and going to others at a record pace.


As I was typing all of that I learned from the local news that Amazon announced it’s opening its newest fulfillment center about 15 minutes up the street from me creating 500 new jobs.  That’s the third major fulfillment center to be added to this market in the last few months and that’s just this market.    

They are not doing that because of no personal income tax or weather, they are going where the business climate is the best and where the economy demands their services. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 06, 2021, 12:39:32 AM

I sensed your orgasm as you climaxed typing the final paragraph.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 06, 2021, 12:40:13 AM

I'd love to live in this binary world where the only things that exist are Florida and shitholes... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 06, 2021, 06:09:47 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 06, 2021, 12:40:13 AM

I'd love to live in this binary world where the only things that exist are Florida and shitholes...

Well- I am considering leaving.  Lol. Because 

1. in between the coasts- Florida is a shithole
2. It just getting too crowded for my liking. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 06, 2021, 06:14:56 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 05, 2021, 11:13:26 PM

Florida wasnt even in the top 10

Florida isn't in the top half of that list. It is #5 on the list of highest median age.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 06, 2021, 06:17:55 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 06, 2021, 06:09:47 AM

Well- I am considering leaving.  Lol. Because

1. in between the coasts- Florida is a shithole
2. It just getting too crowded for my liking.

Come check out my side, before it gets like your side. It's happening.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 06, 2021, 06:24:29 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 06, 2021, 06:17:55 AM

Come check out my side, before it gets like your side. It's happening.

Considering that.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 06, 2021, 08:05:05 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2021, 09:06:24 PM

You really believe that? 

if that is true- isn’t that a potentially enormous problem for covid containment ( among other things)

He's absolutely right. Biden was and still is a Hyopcrite.  

https://www.wptv.com/news/state/gov-ron-desantis-accuses-president-biden-of-making-pandemic-worse-with-lax-border-security

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 06, 2021, 08:17:15 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 05, 2021, 09:48:02 PM

Best Governor in the USA by a god damn 100 miles.

He's kept this state open, great & growing, the people working, and the opportunities to make money and create business flowing. Why the hell do you think everyone is escaping those failing liberal shitholes to come to Florida lol?

Desantis is spot on here, it's like Biden is starting house fires and blaming the occupants for not having fire extinguishers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 06, 2021, 08:27:17 AM

Seems like pointless politicking. I did laugh when Biden called him Governor Who, so at least we get some entertainment out of it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 06, 2021, 08:28:44 AM

I don't like any politicians of any stripe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 06, 2021, 08:44:15 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 06, 2021, 08:27:17 AM

Seems like pointless politicking. I did laugh when Biden called him Governor Who, so at least we get some entertainment out of it.

My reaction to that was more sadness.

My take is that he couldn't remember his name. ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 06, 2021, 08:45:52 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 06, 2021, 08:28:44 AM

I don't like any politicians of any stripe.

I don't think anyone does. I like leaders, but I don't have to like the person. Many people probably feel the same.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 06, 2021, 08:56:19 AM

In my view, we don't have any "leaders" today in politics as I understand the term.  In my view, we have panderers and politicians wanting higher office, or to stay where they are.  This has been the case of course for a long time, in my view.

They use "our money" to get reelected.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 06, 2021, 09:34:08 AM

Leadership.  The world can’t even agree on what that is.  

You could make a case for a few people in politics- IF- IF- if you believe that a leader is someone who has conviction about how the world should be, and they live it, breathe  it and exemplify it regardless of its political popularity.

The challenge is, if you don’t agree with their view of how the world should be you will never recognize them as a leader.

We are so polarized on this that a leader to one group is a horrible demon to another.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 06, 2021, 09:34:55 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 06, 2021, 08:28:44 AM

I don't like any politicians of any stripe.

Amen, more convinced of this than ever

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 06, 2021, 09:37:48 AM

I saw very very very few "leaders" at work, a couple maybe, and a lot of "managers".  I think the comparison is apt.

Managers wanted a promotion so they "managed upwards".  They virtually ignored "us" below them as unworthy.

Politicians manage "voters".  That is why "we" reelect them time after time and they spend 40+ years in DC.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 06, 2021, 12:20:01 PM

The Drunkest States in America

https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/

From most to least (methodology is in the link):

Wisconsin
North Dakota
Iowa
Nebraska
Minnesota
Illinois
Massachusetts
Alaska
Hawaii
Montana
New Hampshire
Colorado
Maine
Ohio
Wyoming
Missouri
Rhode Island
Michigan
Louisiana
Texas
Vermont
Nevada
California
Pennsylvania
South Dakota
New York
Kansas
Oregon
New Jersey
Indiana
Washington
Virginia
South Carolina
Kentucky
Florida
Connecticut
North Carolina
Delaware
Arizona
Maryland
Idaho
New Mexico
Arkansas
Georgia
Tennessee
Oklahoma
Alabama
Mississippi
West Virginia
Utah

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 06, 2021, 12:35:05 PM

can't be right

south Dakota has got to be in the North Dakota, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesooota group

all bordering states

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 06, 2021, 12:43:18 PM

We have two bins here for glass, and every time I drop mine off there, about all I see are liquor bottles and wine.

This building is full of drunks apparently.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 06, 2021, 01:13:32 PM

Sometimes I wonder what the Groot guys think of our place. Probably think 8 people live here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 06, 2021, 01:36:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 06, 2021, 12:43:18 PM

We have two bins here for glass, and every time I drop mine off there, about all I see are liquor bottles and wine.

This building is full of drunks apparently.

The humble correspondent excluded of course

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 06, 2021, 01:38:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 06, 2021, 08:28:44 AM

I don't like any politicians of any stripe.

Do you mean likes stripes across the back as in flogging? Sounds reasonable to me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 06, 2021, 01:40:57 PM

I drink too much myself but have developed a tolerance, for better or worse.  I blame Costco.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 06, 2021, 01:52:24 PM

They used to carry a 48 pak of some uber lite/cheap beer. Haven't seen it in 3 yrs but it strung me along fine in between cases of craft/Yuengling

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 06, 2021, 03:37:29 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 06, 2021, 12:20:01 PM

The Drunkest States in America

https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/

From most to least (methodology is in the link):

Wisconsin
North Dakota
Iowa
Nebraska
Minnesota
Illinois
Massachusetts
Alaska
Hawaii
Montana
New Hampshire
Colorado
Maine
Ohio
Wyoming
Missouri
Rhode Island
Michigan
Louisiana
Texas
Vermont
Nevada
California
Pennsylvania
South Dakota
New York
Kansas
Oregon
New Jersey
Indiana
Washington
Virginia
South Carolina
Kentucky
Florida
Connecticut
North Carolina
Delaware
Arizona
Maryland
Idaho
New Mexico
Arkansas
Georgia
Tennessee
Oklahoma
Alabama
Mississippi
West Virginia
Utah

Here's a better link: https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2021/08/these-are-the-drunkest-states-in-america-ranked/. (https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2021/08/these-are-the-drunkest-states-in-america-ranked/)

I wonder if home-distilled spirits escaped the data.  West Virginia looks suspiciously low.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 06, 2021, 05:09:38 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 05, 2021, 11:43:47 PM

Have to disagree.  And believe me- I wish people weren’t flooding in here

Came in in January of 16. Was recruited to a job I really liked.  I live in an area where people “winter” so it was seasonal.  Bustling December- April, deserted the rest of the year.

it’s not like that now.  Bustling would be a 5 level downgrade. People are moving here at a pace none of the locals can believe.  And they are starting businesses- in many cases moving their business.  I talk to these people- I have to for my job.  I also talk to them casually like when I dine out or golf, etc.

it goes way beyond no personal income tax.  The business climate is welcoming, including taxes, the housing and new construction market is robust, and other industries are ripping it. 

But people are leaving the big cities in fear of crime, higher taxes, anti law enforcement craziness- all the things you see on video.

Yes- Florida has been a destination for a long time- but the intense pace going on is other worldly and that started shortly after the pandemic. There are tangible reasons people are leaving one place and going to others at a record pace.


As I was typing all of that I learned from the local news that Amazon announced it’s opening its newest fulfillment center about 15 minutes up the street from me creating 500 new jobs.  That’s the third major fulfillment center to be added to this market in the last few months and that’s just this market.   

They are not doing that because of no personal income tax or weather, they are going where the business climate is the best and where the economy demands their services.

That’s a fair outlook. I disagree in spots, but am on a trip and don’t have the time to drill down.

I’ll say this, I’m young for a cynic and skeptic, but to me most pols who take credit for prosperity are just riding the good luck train. And if Florida wants to take some CA tech money and make it a place I could afford to live, I’ll take it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 06, 2021, 05:43:01 PM

I should point out that although I live in a dying shithole, Amazon in the last 1-2 years put in a major fulfillment center within barely over a mile from my house. 

I haven't researched the number of jobs, but there are Amazon delivery trucks like crazy all over the roads near me, and I'm sure that the employment aspects are significant.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 06, 2021, 05:51:28 PM

I definitely live in a shithole.  Nobody should ever move here.

Thank You For Your Support

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on August 06, 2021, 06:10:49 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 06, 2021, 12:20:01 PM

The Drunkest States in America

https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/

From most to least (methodology is in the link):

Wisconsin
North Dakota
Iowa
Nebraska
Minnesota
Illinois
Massachusetts
Alaska
Hawaii
Montana
New Hampshire
Colorado
Maine
Ohio
Wyoming
Missouri
Rhode Island
Michigan
Louisiana
Texas
Vermont
Nevada
California
Pennsylvania
South Dakota
New York
Kansas
Oregon
New Jersey
Indiana
Washington
Virginia
South Carolina
Kentucky
Florida
Connecticut
North Carolina
Delaware
Arizona
Maryland
Idaho
New Mexico
Arkansas
Georgia
Tennessee
Oklahoma
Alabama
Mississippi
West Virginia
Utah

Gotta go through 6 B1G states on that list before you get to the first SEC state.

B1G! B1G! B1G!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 06, 2021, 06:28:50 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 06, 2021, 05:51:28 PM

I definitely live in a shithole.  Nobody should ever move here.

Thank You For Your Support

Same for where I grew up. Just awful. Such a shithole, a friend dropped $150k over asking to get a good but smallish house. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 06, 2021, 06:45:48 PM

come on up or over

it's a lot like heaven, but it's Iowa

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 06, 2021, 06:48:22 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 06, 2021, 06:45:48 PM

come on up or over

it's a lot like heaven, but it's Iowa

You got winter up there right?

That's gonna have to be a no from me, dawg.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 06, 2021, 06:56:02 PM

Well Florida is the real shit hole. Amazon has 28 fulfillment centers in California, 21 in Texas and only 10 in Florida.

On a side note- boy has that company figured out retail sales holy shit. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 06, 2021, 07:14:07 PM

no winter today

heat index of 92 currently

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 06, 2021, 07:19:06 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 06, 2021, 07:14:07 PM

no winter today

heat index of 92 currently

fore!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 06, 2021, 07:33:24 PM

took the day off

played Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday

playing Saturday and Sunday of course

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 06, 2021, 08:16:36 PM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on August 06, 2021, 06:10:49 PM

Gotta go through 6 B1G states on that list before you get to the first SEC state.

B1G! B1G! B1G!

The baptists bring down the averages down south...

...at least if you rely on what they admit to drinking anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 06, 2021, 08:26:29 PM

A roundup of some of the most popular but completely untrue stories and visuals of the week. None of these are legit, even though they were shared widely on social media. The Associated Press checked them out. Here are the facts:

___

Post misrepresents Pfizer data on vaccine efficacy

CLAIM: Because 14 people in Pfizer’s placebo group died and 15 people in the vaccinated group also died, Pfizer’s own data shows its COVID-19 vaccine does not reduce the risk of dying from the disease.


https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-joe-biden-health-business-coronavirus-pandemic-0b47352c810ae1579ca5cd9e52963aa1 (https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-joe-biden-health-business-coronavirus-pandemic-0b47352c810ae1579ca5cd9e52963aa1)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 06, 2021, 09:30:36 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 06, 2021, 08:16:36 PM

The baptists bring down the averages down south...

...at least if you rely on what they admit to drinking anyway.

Moonshine? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 06, 2021, 10:01:43 PM

How do you prevent a Baptist from drinking all your beer on a fishing trip?

Invite another Baptist.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 07, 2021, 07:38:10 AM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on August 06, 2021, 06:10:49 PM

Gotta go through 6 B1G states on that list before you get to the first SEC state.

B1G! B1G! B1G!

Early nomination for post of the year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 07, 2021, 07:39:45 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 06, 2021, 10:01:43 PM

How do you prevent a Baptist from drinking all your beer on a fishing trip?

Invite another Baptist.

Was going to post same. Nicely done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 07, 2021, 07:54:54 AM

it's not the oldest joke in the book, but it's the oldest Baptist joke

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2021, 09:54:33 AM

More student housing going up here, and right next door to the Cheetah, ATL's long standing strip club.

Fresh renderings: Work begins on Midtown tower next to Cheetah | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/midtown-tower-apartments-development-cheetah-renderings)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 07, 2021, 10:26:51 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 07, 2021, 07:54:54 AM

it's not the oldest joke in the book, but it's the oldest Baptist joke

True story

I was in Lubbock Tx many years ago on business and was lucky enough to get a room in one of the few motels that had a bar

I was only booked there for a week and towards the end of it found out I would need to be there another week

so I go to the front desk and request another room for the next week and was told they were full because of a coming Baptist convention

when I tried other motels with a bar they were full too but there was no problem if I wanted a room at a motel with no bar

that just made my day

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2021, 12:17:52 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/KCZlmpp.jpg)

Dogwood Festival today, where you can buy over priced mediocre food and gander at art.

(https://i.imgur.com/exqX0rl.jpg)

Why are "we" so fat?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 07, 2021, 12:23:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 07, 2021, 12:17:52 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/KCZlmpp.jpg)

Dogwood Festival today, where you can buy over priced mediocre food and gander at art.

(https://i.imgur.com/exqX0rl.jpg)

Why are "we" so fat?

Free Philly Cheese Fries with proof of vaccination!! End this shit like RIGHT NOW.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2021, 12:52:35 PM

I had a corn dog mostly because the wife had never had one.  It was $8.53, in part because I accidentally double tipped.

$6 plus tax, which is nearly 9%, plus tip.  Frozen corn dogs are as good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 07, 2021, 02:19:51 PM

Sad to hear you have such crappy corn dogs over there.

Fletcher's corny dogs, at the State Fair of Texas, are delicious and amazing.  You should try one sometime.  Way way better than frozen. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 07, 2021, 02:24:38 PM

Why on Earth would anybody ever settle for a corn dog, when there is fair food available that actually tastes good? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 07, 2021, 02:30:06 PM

Corny dogs are delicious, but they are just the appetizer. 

Some of the more recent entries at the Texas State Fair are listed here:

https://bigtex.com/plan-your-visit/food/big-tex-choice-awards/?gclid=CjwKCAjw3riIBhAwEiwAzD3TiXPeVYcHZm6hI0Op6sFfWudxwQKuOKeIOGrfYVv8oiGUtT2ihC-QrBoC3lIQAvD_BwE

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2021, 02:31:29 PM

As I said, the wife had never had one, I got it so she could have a bite.  I have never had an amazing corn dog, they pretty much have been all the same.

I didn't really see anything superior at the festival, same old stuff, one spot had crab cakes which may have been OK.  There were some food trucks with long lines.

The restaurants are generally a lot better and cheaper and a short walk away.  We came home and I finished up the dinner from last night, Creol food.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 07, 2021, 02:33:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 07, 2021, 02:31:29 PM

As I said, the wife had never had one, I got it so she could have a bite.  I have never had an amazing corn dog, they pretty much have been all the same.

I didn't really see anything superior at the festival, same old stuff, one spot had crab cakes which may have been OK.  There were some food trucks with long lines.

The restaurants are generally a lot better and cheaper and a short walk away.  We came home and I finished up the dinner from last night, Creol food.

Meet me for TX-OU this year, I'll buy and you will see the Light. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2021, 02:38:14 PM

I almost never buy corn dogs anywhere, so my experience is limited.  There was a mall in Cincy that had a spot with corn dogs I would get at times back when we went to malls for stuff.  The kids liked them.  Were they special and great?  Nope.

There is a small place near us that sells Nathan's hotdogs, they ask a lot for them.  Never tried them from there, hotdogs are easy to fix at home.

(https://i.imgur.com/cLFNqOt.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 07, 2021, 02:41:21 PM

I only ever eat them at the State Fair, where it's coming straight out of the fryer and into my hand.  I wouldn't ever bother trying to get them at a restaurant or mall kiosk.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 07, 2021, 04:30:57 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 07, 2021, 02:41:21 PM

I only ever eat them at the State Fair, where it's coming straight out of the fryer and into my hand.  I wouldn't ever bother trying to get them at a restaurant or mall kiosk.

You'll know that the Apocalypse is upon us when you see frozen Fletcher's Corny Dogs at your local grocer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 07, 2021, 05:52:31 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 07, 2021, 02:30:06 PM

Corny dogs are delicious, but they are just the appetizer. 

Some of the more recent entries at the Texas State Fair are listed here:

https://bigtex.com/plan-your-visit/food/big-tex-choice-awards/?gclid=CjwKCAjw3riIBhAwEiwAzD3TiXPeVYcHZm6hI0Op6sFfWudxwQKuOKeIOGrfYVv8oiGUtT2ihC-QrBoC3lIQAvD_BwE

DAYUM!

There more than a couple items in there that are worth a trip to fetch them. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 07, 2021, 07:21:24 PM

Yeah they take the food pretty seriously at the Texas State Fair.  I've also heard that the Minnesota State Fair is something to behold, I'd like to try it out someday.

Here are the semifinalists for this year, no pics yet, just decriptions:

https://bigtex.com/86613-2/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 07, 2021, 08:53:50 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 07, 2021, 07:21:24 PM

Yeah they take the food pretty seriously at the Texas State Fair.  I've also heard that the Minnesota State Fair is something to behold, I'd like to try it out someday.

Here are the semifinalists for this year, no pics yet, just decriptions:

https://bigtex.com/86613-2/

If they can just keep from burning down Big Tex

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2021, 06:49:28 AM

They had a state fair in Ohio, never went, and a county fair, never went, I do not know of such a thing down here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 08, 2021, 09:50:53 AM

I don't like fairs.

Stinky, crowded, always in the middle of the hot summer, overpriced, sh!tty rides, etc. 

Nothing redeeming about them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 08, 2021, 10:21:28 AM

The Florida State Fair is in February. We won't be going.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 08, 2021, 11:28:13 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 08, 2021, 09:50:53 AM

I don't like fairs.

Stinky, crowded, always in the middle of the hot summer, overpriced, sh!tty rides, etc.

Nothing redeeming about them.

Texas State Fair runs from the end of September to middle of October  Weather in Dallas is usuallbly pretty nice for it.  TX-OU is almost always on the second Saturday of October, and the State Fair of Texas is an incredible backdrop for it.  There's really nothing else like it, not in American sports at least.  It's amazing.

Definitely crowded and overpriced, but my kids love it and as long as they want our family to go there and make memories, we'll be doing it for them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2021, 11:41:19 AM

The Georgia State Fair returns to Atlanta Motor Speedway in 2021 - Atlanta on the Cheap (https://www.atlantaonthecheap.com/discounts-the-georgia-state-fair-atlanta-motor-speedway/)

I had never heard of this, or forgot about it.  Which is more probably perhaps.

Attractions are said to include:

• pig races
• white tiger display
• petting zoo
• Lady Houdini
• Jurassic Kingdom dinosaur show
• magic show
• hypnotist show
• Wolves of the World show
• Hollywood Circus performances
• pony rides ($7 each)
• puppet shows
• animal shows
• Universal Championship Wrestling

Visit the Georgia State Fair website (https://www.georgiastatefair.org/).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 08, 2021, 11:41:32 AM

"A hot dog at the ballpark is better than steak at the Ritz." -- Humphrey Bogart 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 08, 2021, 11:41:42 AM

The only time I ever went to the Ohio State Fair was to attend an Alice Cooper concert. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2021, 11:44:53 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 08, 2021, 11:41:32 AM

"A hot dog at the ballpark is better than steak at the Ritz." -- Humphrey Bogart

I might buy that at MB stadium, which has ultra low food prices for such a venue.

• Hot Dog: $1.50 (was $2)
• Pretzel Bites: $4.50 (was $5)
• ATL Bud Burger: $7.50 (was $8)
• Ice Cream Waffle Cone: $4.50 (was $5)
• Chips and Salsa: $2.50 (was $3)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 08, 2021, 11:49:26 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 08, 2021, 09:50:53 AM

I don't like fairs.

Stinky, crowded, always in the middle of the hot summer, overpriced, sh!tty rides, etc.

Nothing redeeming about them.

Commie - back in the day when we were an Agrarian Society it was quite the to do. It'd be nice to find Dorothy & Toto to take you back to Kansas or Aunt Bee,Andy & Opie back to Mayberry or the Walton's back to the Mountain.......

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 08, 2021, 11:50:28 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on August 08, 2021, 11:41:42 AM

The only time I ever went to the Ohio State Fair was to attend an Alice Cooper concert.

Commie - or Vincent Furnier back to Detroit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 08, 2021, 11:54:13 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 06, 2021, 08:16:36 PM

The baptists bring down the averages down south...

...at least if you rely on what they admit to drinking anyway.

Baptists don't recognize the Pope........each other in the Liquor Store

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 08, 2021, 12:00:57 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 06, 2021, 03:37:29 PM

Here's a better link: https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2021/08/these-are-the-drunkest-states-in-america-ranked/. (https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2021/08/these-are-the-drunkest-states-in-america-ranked/)

I wonder if home-distilled spirits escaped the data.  West Virginia looks suspiciously low.

Evidently a bunch of my buddies quit drinking - slackers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2021, 02:09:51 PM

The wife bought three tickets to Hamilton . holy cow.  Daughter is coming down for my Bday.  Not a cheap present at all.

Can't be worth that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 08, 2021, 02:13:28 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 08, 2021, 02:09:51 PM

The wife bought three tickets to Hamilton . holy cow.  Daughter is coming down for my Bday.  Not a cheap present at all.

Can't be worth that.

I tried to watch Hamilton and got about 30 minutes into it and just couldnt take any more

but Im sure thats just me and my ways

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2021, 02:18:35 PM

I fear I will be the same, I didn't want to go, but the daughter wanted to see it.  I guess it's a "thing".  I get a sense folks wants to gloat about seeing it at parties often as not (not the wife).  It's highly trendy, and highly expensive.  I've paid a couple hundred to see a couple football games, but these tickets are over double that.  The wife siggested I wear wear plugs, I gather it's loud.

Hamilton Returns to Light Up The Fox Theatre After Long Closure - News Center - Midtown Atlanta (https://www.midtownatl.com/about/news-center/post/hamilton-returns-to-light-up-the-fox-theatre-after-long-closure)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 08, 2021, 03:08:19 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 08, 2021, 02:13:28 PM

I tried to watch Hamilton and got about 30 minutes into it and just couldnt take any more

but Im sure thats just me and my ways

Probably.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 08, 2021, 08:41:18 PM

the things some men do to keep some women happy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 08, 2021, 08:49:06 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 08, 2021, 08:41:18 PM

the things some men do to keep some women happy

when mama aint happy aint nobody happy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 08, 2021, 08:52:14 PM

the truth

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 09, 2021, 12:29:28 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 08, 2021, 11:28:13 AM

Texas State Fair runs from the end of September to middle of October  Weather in Dallas is usuallbly pretty nice for it.  TX-OU is almost always on the second Saturday of October, and the State Fair of Texas is an incredible backdrop for it.  There's really nothing else like it, not in American sports at least.  It's amazing.

Definitely crowded and overpriced, but my kids love it and as long as they want our family to go there and make memories, we'll be doing it for them.

For me, it's the Fair more than the Cotton Bowl, per se, that makes the site of the OU-Texas game as special as it is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 09, 2021, 12:31:06 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 08, 2021, 11:54:13 AM

Baptists don't recognize the Pope........each other in the Liquor Store

Baptists don't have sex standing up.
Someone might think they were dancing.
Yes, I'm a Baptist.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2021, 09:47:26 AM

I can't think of a concert or game or any single event where I'd fork over $430 to attend in person.

I had thoughts about attending the UGA-ND game in SB,  the ticket prices bounced around a lot, but the low was about $230, and then went through the roof.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 09, 2021, 09:51:51 AM

$430?

That would have to be a conference champ game or national title game for me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on August 09, 2021, 09:58:04 AM

The most money I have ever spent on a ticket to a sporting event was $145, and that was at the Vancouver Olympics 11 years ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 09, 2021, 10:02:12 AM

I spend around $350 per seat for Formula 1 tickets.  That's for the entire weekend, all support races plus practice and qualifying, not just one day or event.

I no longer have UT season tickets but when I did, the most expensive face value ticket was for TX-OU which was about $125, three years ago.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2021, 10:05:24 AM

I spent about $270 to see UGA-Bama in the SEC CG, just me going.

I've spent over $200 two other times, had fun.  Would not spend $430 for anything I can imagine, maybe if Mozart came back to life.

I did spend that for two tickets about to see Yo Yo Ma this fall.  Something about keeping the wife happy.  She's really pretty easy to keep happy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 09, 2021, 10:19:50 AM

don't remember what I spent for the Big 10 Champ game in 2012, but it wasn't worth it

the Nebraska/Michigan game in Lincoln will be a game time decision depending on price

I spent $150 for good seats at the 1995 Orange Bowl to see Osborne win his first title.  Adjusted for inflation was probably the most I've spent.  It was worth it.

I paid around $150 for a ticket to the 2002 Rose bowl.  Could have scalped a ticket for $100 for a much better seat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 09, 2021, 12:37:00 PM

I saw the Hamilton production they put on Disney+ last year.  It was good, I enjoyed it.  But I certainly wouldn't feel the need to spend over $400 to see it live in a theater.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2021, 12:49:08 PM

I might spend $300 to see UGA in an NC game if it were local or driveable, but there is little threat of that happening.

Our symphony season tickets are pricey for six concerts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 09, 2021, 12:51:09 PM

I've thought about spending $600 for green fees at Pebble Beach........ bucket list 5 hours of entertainment

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2021, 12:52:11 PM

I would consider that if I were a decent golfer.  I heard St. Andrews is not too expensive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2021, 01:18:23 PM

The wife does not like "Greek yogurt", and it's amazing how much of the yogurt aisle now is just that, it's hard to find the "regular" stuff.  

Kroger no longer carries steelhead trout, which I prefer over any salmon, but Costco has it, but large pieces.

Kirkland branded wines are almost always exceptional values.  Their box cabernet is amazing, but the box chard is just OK.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 09, 2021, 01:22:02 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 09, 2021, 12:52:11 PM

I would consider that if I were a decent golfer.  I heard St. Andrews is not too expensive.

if I were to be in the vicinity, I'd camp out early to play St. Andrews
I have little reason to be in the area

my daughters would like a week or so long vacation in Cali

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 09, 2021, 01:29:04 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 09, 2021, 01:18:23 PM

The wife does not like "Greek yogurt", and it's amazing how much of the yogurt aisle now is just that, it's hard to find the "regular" stuff. 

Kroger no longer carries steelhead trout, which I prefer over any salmon, but Costco has it, but large pieces.

Kirkland branded wines are almost always exceptional values.  Their box cabernet is amazing, but the box chard is just OK.

Are there Aldis down there? I just got some steelhead trout from there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2021, 01:35:56 PM

We have a few Aldis spotted around (3).  There was one very near us in Cincy, but I didn't much like their meat and fish.  I didn't go there often, have not been to one here, the closest one is maybe 5 miles away.  We usually get the large slab at Costco and I grill it and fridge what we don't eat.  It keeps a while.

My lunch is usually leftovers.

We just don't go to Costco that often, every two weeks or so, and get gas.  It's 8 miles fairly easy drive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 09, 2021, 02:10:15 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 09, 2021, 01:22:02 PM

if I were to be in the vicinity, I'd camp out early to play St. Andrews
I have little reason to be in the area

my daughters would like a week or so long vacation in Cali

Dad's taking them to Scotland this year

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 09, 2021, 02:30:43 PM

don't think so

maybe San Fran with a day in the redwoods, wine country, ferry ride to Tiburon to Sam's Anchor Cafe, Monterey aquarium(while I play golf)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 09, 2021, 02:45:19 PM

Here the the La Brea Tar Pits are quite the sight if you can see thru the smoke of the wild fires

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 09, 2021, 03:16:22 PM

I deem any seafood in AZ suspect, no matter who’s selling it or for how much.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 09, 2021, 03:22:10 PM

same thing in Iowa, unless it''s catfish or bullhead or carp

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 09, 2021, 03:53:47 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 08, 2021, 02:09:51 PM

The wife bought three tickets to Hamilton . holy cow.  Daughter is coming down for my Bday.  Not a cheap present at all.

Can't be worth that.

I saw it. Really enjoyed it, actually.

Edit: I see you were paying >$400 per ticket?! Yeah, even going to see it at the Pantages theater in Hollywood we were nowhere close to that. I don't think it was over $400 for the two of us combined. That's... A lot.

We went here after the show for dinner: https://thestinkingrose.com/bh/index.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 09, 2021, 03:59:46 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 09, 2021, 03:16:22 PM

I deem any seafood in AZ suspect, no matter who’s selling it or for how much.

Eh. Truth is about 98% of the seafood you buy *anywhere* is flash frozen and remains frozen when it's delivered to the store/restaurant. Sometimes they defrost it and put it in the seafood case so you can buy it "fresh". 

I prefer to buy most of my seafood still frozen and defrost it myself. That way I know the actual conditions it is stored (how long, etc) during the defrost process and prior to cooking. 

I'm sure there's great seafood in AZ. Probably just as good as that 98% of seafood I can get in CA that was delivered to the store/restaurant frozen. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 09, 2021, 04:02:06 PM

Roy's in Chandler has very good seafood. But, it's Roy's.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2021, 04:14:41 PM

Hamilton tickets reach $982.

Hamilton Atlanta tickets - Fabulous Fox Theatre - Atlanta - 09/15/2021 | Vivid Seats (https://www.vividseats.com/hamilton-tickets-atlanta-fabulous-fox-theatre-atlanta-9-15-2021/production/3247200)

For a Wednesday performance.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 09, 2021, 05:24:01 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 09, 2021, 02:45:19 PM

Here the the La Brea Tar Pits are quite the sight if you can see thru the smoke of the wild fires

You hered wrong, IMO.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 09, 2021, 05:51:55 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 09, 2021, 05:24:01 PM

You hered wrong, IMO.

Being facetious,if I was going to Cali it wouldn't be to see that.Stop and see Muir Woods,Alcatraz,Yosemite,RedWoods &  Sequoias, USC and the Song Girls

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 09, 2021, 06:09:29 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 09, 2021, 02:30:43 PM

don't think so

maybe San Fran with a day in the redwoods, wine country, ferry ride to Tiburon to Sam's Anchor Cafe, Monterey aquarium(while I play golf)

The redwoods are great and all, but it's going to be a lot of work to go look at big trees. That said, if that's a must then I would recommend you drive from SF up that direction on Hwy 1 rather than Hwy 101. Don't get me wrong--101 is beautiful all up that direction--you should drive BACK on 101. But Hwy 1 north of SF is absolutely astounding. Every bit as gorgeous as Big Sur, but with a lot less people. The drive on Hwy 1 might be an all-day affair... But it'll be worth it. 

Coming back from there on 101 will take you through Sonoma rather than Napa--much more "low key" if you want to do wine country. Stop off in the Healdsburg area (specifically the Dry Creek Valley area) for the best Zin in the world. 

If you want to see my old stomping grounds on the motorcycle, the drive from SF to Monterey should be down I-280 rather than 101, and exit heading westbound on Hwy 92. When you get to Hwy 35 aka Skyline Blvd, turn left (south). Hwy 35 rides the top of the ridge along the Santa Cruz Mountains and is amazing. At the intersection of Hwy 92 and Hwy 84, you can stop off at Alice's Restaurant (no, not that one, a biker establishment). Staying south on Hwy 35, continue to "four corners" where Hwy 35 and Hwy 9 meet. Turn right (south) there and it'll take you down to Santa Cruz where you'll meet Hwy 1 to go the rest of the way down to Monterey. Also along Hwy 9 is a cool little place in Brookdale called the "Brookdale Lodge", which is a hotel but also has a restaurant with a creek running right through the middle of the dining room. Very quaint.

If you can arrange your trip around the same time as the Gilroy Garlic Festival, then you should check that out. Also if you're headed towards Monterey and interested in motorsports, you should check out whether there's anything going on at Laguna Seca while you're in town. Salinas is not far from Monterey. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 09, 2021, 06:11:12 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 09, 2021, 05:51:55 PM

Being facetious,if I was going to Cali it wouldn't be to see that.Stop and see Muir Woods,Alcatraz,Yosemite,RedWoods &  Sequoias, USC and the Song Girls

You're not stopping by Wrong Planet Brewing for a few beers? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 09, 2021, 06:28:38 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 09, 2021, 06:09:29 PM

The redwoods are great and all, but it's going to be a lot of work to go look at big trees. That said, if that's a must then I would recommend you drive from SF up that direction on Hwy 1 rather than Hwy 101. Don't get me wrong--101 is beautiful all up that direction--you should drive BACK on 101. But Hwy 1 north of SF is absolutely astounding. Every bit as gorgeous as Big Sur, but with a lot less people. The drive on Hwy 1 might be an all-day affair... But it'll be worth it.

Coming back from there on 101 will take you through Sonoma rather than Napa--much more "low key" if you want to do wine country. Stop off in the Healdsburg area (specifically the Dry Creek Valley area) for the best Zin in the world.

If you want to see my old stomping grounds on the motorcycle, the drive from SF to Monterey should be down I-280 rather than 101, and exit heading westbound on Hwy 92. When you get to Hwy 35 aka Skyline Blvd, turn left (south). Hwy 35 rides the top of the ridge along the Santa Cruz Mountains and is amazing. At the intersection of Hwy 92 and Hwy 84, you can stop off at Alice's Restaurant (no, not that one, a biker establishment). Staying south on Hwy 35, continue to "four corners" where Hwy 35 and Hwy 9 meet. Turn right (south) there and it'll take you down to Santa Cruz where you'll meet Hwy 1 to go the rest of the way down to Monterey. Also along Hwy 9 is a cool little place in Brookdale called the "Brookdale Lodge", which is a hotel but also has a restaurant with a creek running right through the middle of the dining room. Very quaint.

If you can arrange your trip around the same time as the Gilroy Garlic Festival, then you should check that out. Also if you're headed towards Monterey and interested in motorsports, you should check out whether there's anything going on at Laguna Seca while you're in town. Salinas is not far from Monterey.

thanks for the tip..
I'll copy and paste for later

told my daughters we will wait until the COVID pandemic is over

might be next year

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2021, 06:47:28 PM

One of the neatest things I saw in CA was Sonora Pass road.  It has 26% grades.

The pass connects the communities of Sonora (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonora,_California) to the west and Bridgeport (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridgeport,_California) to the east. Like Ebbetts Pass (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebbetts_Pass) to the north and Tioga Pass (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tioga_Pass) to the south, the highway closes during winter, generally between November and May, due to snow accumulation.^{[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonora_Pass#cite_note-4)}
The highway over the pass is extremely steep (exceeding 8% for most of the traverse, and up to 26% grades in some locations), narrow and winding between Kennedy Meadows on the west side and Leavitt Meadows on the east. The route is not recommended for vehicles or vehicle combinations that are unusually wide, heavy or long.^{[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonora_Pass#cite_note-5)}

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/83/20040626-1033-0476-SonoraPass-CA.jpg/220px-20040626-1033-0476-SonoraPass-CA.jpg) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:20040626-1033-0476-SonoraPass-CA.jpg)

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:20040626-1033-0476-SonoraPass-CA.jpg)
View of the Sierra Nevada range and Sonora Peak (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonora_Peak) looking northward from Sonora Pass.

The Pacific Crest Trail (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Crest_Trail), a 2,650 mile (4,240 km) long National Scenic Trail (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Scenic_Trail), crosses Highway 108 at Sonora Pass.^{[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonora_Pass#cite_note-6)}

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 09, 2021, 07:07:13 PM

I love driving in and around big mountains.....it's like I'm in a car commercial.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 09, 2021, 08:44:00 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 09, 2021, 05:51:55 PM

Being facetious,if I was going to Cali it wouldn't be to see that.Stop and see Muir Woods,Alcatraz,Yosemite,RedWoods &  Sequoias, USC and the Song Girls

Figured as much.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 09, 2021, 08:48:17 PM

If you'd like a scenic drive at the other end of the country, drive from West Point to Cooperstown in the early fall.  Gorgeous.

The Great Smoky Mountains of western North Carolina (not limited to that region) are extremely scenic, and fun to drive through if you have a fun-to-drive car.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 09, 2021, 09:20:27 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 09, 2021, 08:48:17 PM

If you'd like a scenic drive at the other end of the country, drive from West Point to Cooperstown in the early fall.  Gorgeous.

The Great Smoky Mountains of western North Carolina (not limited to that region) are extremely scenic, and fun to drive through if you have a fun-to-drive car.

So true    I just did that two weekends ago. Since my mother had passed during Covid we never got to have her funeral and since she was born in the smoky mountains she wanted her ashes distributed there so that’s where the family got together.
Driving in that area is absolutely gorgeous and I had the right vehicle.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 09, 2021, 09:40:03 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 09, 2021, 09:20:27 PM

So true    I just did that two weekends ago. Since my mother had passed during Covid we never got to have her funeral and since she was born in the smoky mountains she wanted her ashes distributed there so that’s where the family got together.
Driving in that area is absolutely gorgeous and I had the right vehicle.

Sorry about your mother, HB.  It was good you got to have the family together and scatter her ashes as she wished.
My brother and his wife just spent the better part of a week in and around Robbinsville, NC, at a national rally of Mazda Miata owners.  I had not been in that particular part of western North Carolina and had not heard of the Tail of the Dragon, an 11 mile stretch of road with 318 turns.

(https://www.rd.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/GettyImages-1283247302.jpg?fit=700,1024)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 09, 2021, 11:55:03 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 09, 2021, 09:40:03 PM

Sorry about your mother, HB.  It was good you got to have the family together and scatter her ashes as she wished.
My brother and his wife just spent the better part of a week in and around Robbinsville, NC, at a national rally of Mazda Miata owners.  I had not been in that particular part of western North Carolina and had not heard of the Tail of the Dragon, an 11 mile stretch of road with 318 turns.

[img width=259.091 height=375]https://www.rd.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/GettyImages-1283247302.jpg?fit=700,1024[/img]

Yeah, the problem with it today is that everyone knows about it. Might as well be a parade based on typical speeds lol..

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 10, 2021, 06:44:33 AM

I drove the "Tail" a few times in the 70s, I'd see maybe 2-3 other cars en route, no bikes. It's a very old grade that follows (mostly) an Indian track over a low point in the mountain range.  It also doesn't "go" anywhere of note.  I was on it again a few years back and it was bikes galore, it's obviously a Think now, but slow.

There really are other more entertaining roads in the area.  I like the Blue Ridge Parkway on a nice day, though it has a 45 mph speed limit.  The stretch south of Asheville is particularly nice and crests over 6,000 feet which is a lot for the East.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 10, 2021, 08:00:27 AM

Colorado highway 550 from Durango to Silverton is/was called the million dollar highway because of the cost to build per mile.  It's a nice drive to make the loup from Durango to Silverton (mining town), Ouray, Ridgeway, Telluride, stop to see bridal veil falls, and back to Durango.  You could stop in Cortez.

did this trip on a motorcycle back in 1997 with a tent overnight at the base of the falls. 

Bridal Veil Falls is a 365-foot waterfall at the end of the box canyon overlooking Telluride, Colorado. Hiking and off-road trails pass by the falls and it has a hydroelectric power plant at its top. In winter the frozen shape of the falls forms an imposing challenge to intrepid ice climbers.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Bridal_Veil_Falls_Telluride_CO3.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 10, 2021, 08:56:36 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 09, 2021, 06:11:12 PM

You're not stopping by Wrong Planet Brewing for a few beers?

I said "IF" but prolly could slide that into the itinerary and of course trim everything else off.Hell going all that way I'm not stopping for ONE!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 10, 2021, 08:58:44 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 09, 2021, 06:28:38 PM

thanks for the tip..
I'll copy and paste for later

told my daughters we will wait until the COVID pandemic is over

might be next year

So go to Scotland and get inoculated - proper like

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 10, 2021, 09:39:42 AM

I just saw a golf course worker driving around and releasing tons of dragon flies. Now I know where they come from. I guess they drop 2 times per week. Great way to get rid of the flying bite machines around here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 10, 2021, 10:51:52 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 10, 2021, 09:39:42 AM

I just saw a golf course worker driving around and releasing tons of dragon flies. Now I know where they come from. I guess they drop 2 times per week. Great way to get rid of the flying bite machines around here.

No shit!  I didn’t know that!  Those little bastards that bite around here are awful.  

go Dragonflies!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 10, 2021, 11:01:27 AM

Mosquitoes don't really bother me anymore. It's the no-see-ums that destroy me, although I'm getting some resistance. Maybe have to try and get a no-see-um vaccine.

I use this stuff. It's the only thing I've found that works. A Thermacell helps a lot too.

(https://i.imgur.com/EYv5dPA.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/hir6b31.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 10, 2021, 11:08:03 AM

I choose to not have a screen on the pool because I like the tropical look but there’s definitely a price to pay

So many no- see- ums

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 10, 2021, 11:21:19 AM

Nice looking pool. I'm going to do something like that when we have ours re-done - probably next year. 

Still bleeding money getting this place how we want it. Garage paint/flooring is being done now. Generac will come in about a month.

Thinking about the roof too, a new cage, new pool... and then it's a brand new house, minus foundation, slab and external walls.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 10, 2021, 12:29:53 PM

We get some skeeters, but nothing like those y'all have in Florida.  Or even Houston.

This is our setup, thank goodness no need for the backyard net-tent.

(https://i.imgur.com/XxHu3dy.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/d0mnT4n.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/nZYSNbU.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/BjpJYf4.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/52sDRm2.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/FLGNyMu.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/8gS8Sbm.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on August 10, 2021, 12:34:21 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 10, 2021, 11:08:03 AM

I choose to not have a screen on the pool because I like the tropical look but there’s definitely a price to pay

So many no- see- ums

I chose to do the same, and I agree.  We have a canal and lake that run behind the back of our property, so that doesn't help.  I have to deal with the cottonmouths sometimes as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 10, 2021, 12:34:30 PM

Yeah, the one thing that I absolutely LOVE about SoCal is that we don't get mosquitoes at all. I can sometimes go an entire summer without a single bite.

Not going to send y'all a picture of my dirt patch backyard though. If I owned this house there'd be SO many changes that I'd make back there, but since I don't... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 10, 2021, 12:36:01 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 10, 2021, 12:34:30 PM

Yeah, the one thing that I absolutely LOVE about SoCal is that we don't get mosquitoes at all. I can sometimes go an entire summer without a single bite.

Not going to send y'all a picture of my dirt patch backyard though. If I owned this house there'd be SO many changes that I'd make back there, but since I don't...

All of that was done before we bought our house.  If I'd had to plan it and pay for it directly myself, there's no way it would ever have been done. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 10, 2021, 12:46:19 PM

This is our pool, in its native state (unoccupied) as I'm awaiting the elevator.  It's not fancy like utee's, but it's adequate for me.  It's above the entrance drive.  I'm headed down soon to the gym and then the pool.   Folks in condos think they want a gym, a pool, a lounge, a deck, and then rarely do they get used.

(https://i.imgur.com/Q2ODkAk.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on August 10, 2021, 12:47:21 PM

I love the foliage on that HB.  I opted to do my own landscaping to save money.  One of the downsides with that is it is not mature and filled in yet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 10, 2021, 01:00:15 PM

Those no see ems sound awful. I hate bugs, I could never get used to that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 10, 2021, 01:02:33 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 10, 2021, 12:46:19 PM

This is our pool, in its native state (unoccupied) as I'm awaiting the elevator.  It's not fancy like utee's, but it's adequate for me.  It's above the entrance drive.  I'm headed down soon to the gym and then the pool.  Folks in condos think they want a gym, a pool, a lounge, a deck, and then rarely do they get used.

[img width=280.99 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/Q2ODkAk.png[/img]

A pool that you don't have to maintain yourself, is a great kind of pool to have.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 10, 2021, 01:03:43 PM

When my son graduated Parris Island, I had a BBq basket delivered and we drove out back to eat it. In no time, the sand fleas started after us.  It was miserable.  He was standing and eating and laughing at us.  He said he was used to them.  I could barely eat with needing to whack my legs.  They hurt.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 10, 2021, 03:56:32 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 10, 2021, 12:29:53 PM

We get some skeeters, but nothing like those y'all have in Florida.  Or even Houston.

This is our setup, thank goodness no need for the backyard net-tent.

(https://i.imgur.com/XxHu3dy.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/d0mnT4n.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/nZYSNbU.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/BjpJYf4.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/52sDRm2.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/FLGNyMu.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/8gS8Sbm.png)

Beautiful!  Love it. And the lighting too

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 10, 2021, 03:59:29 PM

Just back from some swimming.  I'm not a good swimmer, but I think it's good for me.  Or something.

Going to Atmosphere tonight, our eighth.  Tempus fugit.

Finally got reservations at Bacchanalia next week sorted out, I hear it's good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 10, 2021, 06:59:11 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on August 03, 2021, 01:53:20 PM

I don't think there are any criminal charges there so would be surprised if Cuomo resigns or is removed by the legislature.  Cuomo's defense and any settlements will be paid for with NY taxpayer funds.

Welp, he resigned.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 10, 2021, 07:01:33 PM

good for him

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 10, 2021, 07:05:11 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/u4aCUV2.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 10, 2021, 07:06:29 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/VuhEdr3.jpg)Ok sorry.  Just had to.  Done now. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 10, 2021, 07:21:04 PM

They're called gnats.  If you're going to have a silly name for them, it might as well be 'hear you flying into my ear and laying 70,000 eggses'.
.
And you can have the beaches in SoCal - F that noise.  Sand fleas and freezing-ass water makes for a garbage time.  In all my years growing up in FL, I never once faced sand fleas and the Gulf Stream always kept the water temps nice. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 10, 2021, 07:34:35 PM

it annoys me that people call them no-see-ums, but even with my poor eye sight, I can see um

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 10, 2021, 07:47:41 PM

https://www.terminix.com/blog/bug-facts/what-are-no-see-ums/

Not gnats.  Biting midges- fly family. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 10, 2021, 10:51:05 PM

Bugs around here go the other way. They are so big that they tip their cap and say hello to you when you pass them on the street. Crickets, grasshoppers, praying manti, scorpions...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2021, 07:05:07 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 10, 2021, 07:47:41 PM

https://www.terminix.com/blog/bug-facts/what-are-no-see-ums/

Not gnats.  Biting midges- fly family.

Exactly. One would think a Florida native would get this. To combat them, I use the stuff I posted above and we also had a combination of Florida Glass and No See Um Screen put on when we moved here.

No-See-Um Fiberglass Insect Mesh Screen: 20 x 20 | Phifer
 (https://www.phifer.com/product/no-see-ums-20-20/)


All about No-See-Ums in the south - they are very difficult to see (noseeums.com)

 (https://www.noseeums.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 11, 2021, 09:41:57 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 10, 2021, 07:06:29 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/VuhEdr3.jpg)

this is great. him and his idiot brother on tv are an embarrassment to italian people. good riddance. now his idiot brother fredo should be fired and andrew indicted and arrested for his sexual assault on women and his cover-up of COVID nursing deaths. 

Kind of crazy how a pervy italian governor (Andrew) and a fake italian mayor (Warren Willhelm) can together pretty much ruin the greatest city in the US all on their own. Just shows you what shitty leadership from people devoid of morality and who have zero character can destroy in just a short period of time. 

what disgusts me are the people in media who are cracking jokes and looking down on the guy, when just a year ago they were singing his praises and literally blowing him on air every chance they could get.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 11, 2021, 01:07:09 PM

So a couple weeks ago, my mom fell and broke her hip. 

She went in and had surgery (luckily just a plate and screws rather than a hip replacement), recuperated for a couple days in the hospital, and then moved to a SNF for rehab and the rest of the recovery.

In two weeks in the SNF, she gained 40# of fluid weight, was extremely unhappy with her care, and she and my dad decided to go back to the hospital. That was Sunday. 

As of yesterday I learned that she was being transferred to the ICU because the fluid wasn't properly draining and was affecting her heart, and she needs a catheter in her heart, carotid artery, and her neck in order to get the fluid drained. Without this treatment her condition would likely have been fatal within 48 hours...

Supposedly she's doing a little better this morning, and they just put the catheters in. 

My wife and I are planning to fly out to Denver next week to support her in her recovery, and hoping that I won't have to fly out there within the next 24-48 because things turned south...

So... Good karma would be appreciated. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2021, 01:09:36 PM

Karma sent.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 11, 2021, 01:12:12 PM

good luck & God Bless

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 11, 2021, 01:16:10 PM

The NCAA discovered violations but overall Baylor won’t be charged with the loss of scholarships or bowl bans.
The violations occurred between 2011 and 2016, such as impermissible benefits for one football player and the use of a “predominantly female student-host program that did not align with NCAA recruiting rules.” Those violations resulted in four years probation, a $5,000 fine and many recruiting restrictions.

Also, a five-year show-cause penalty has been served to a former assistant director of football operations for refusing to cooperate with the investigation. Additionally, Baylor will be required to vacate any records that happened in which an ineligible player participated.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 11, 2021, 01:25:24 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 11, 2021, 01:07:09 PM

So a couple weeks ago, my mom fell and broke her hip.

She went in and had surgery (luckily just a plate and screws rather than a hip replacement), recuperated for a couple days in the hospital, and then moved to a SNF for rehab and the rest of the recovery.

In two weeks in the SNF, she gained 40# of fluid weight, was extremely unhappy with her care, and she and my dad decided to go back to the hospital. That was Sunday.

As of yesterday I learned that she was being transferred to the ICU because the fluid wasn't properly draining and was affecting her heart, and she needs a catheter in her heart, carotid artery, and her neck in order to get the fluid drained. Without this treatment her condition would likely have been fatal within 48 hours...

Supposedly she's doing a little better this morning, and they just put the catheters in.

My wife and I are planning to fly out to Denver next week to support her in her recovery, and hoping that I won't have to fly out there within the next 24-48 because things turned south...

So... Good karma would be appreciated.

Best karma sent your way!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2021, 01:26:38 PM

Best wishes to your mom, bwarb.  I hope she recovers quickly and fully.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 11, 2021, 02:26:05 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 10, 2021, 12:29:53 PM

We get some skeeters, but nothing like those y'all have in Florida.  Or even Houston.

This is our setup, thank goodness no need for the backyard net-tent.

(https://i.imgur.com/XxHu3dy.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/d0mnT4n.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/nZYSNbU.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/BjpJYf4.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/52sDRm2.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/FLGNyMu.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/8gS8Sbm.png)

Very nice crib Marcus.  I will have something similar at my next place.  I actually filled in my in-ground pool 3-4 years ago because it needed more work than I was willing to spend and it was just really old overall.  But I loved having a pool.  Maybe someday when I build my new house...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2021, 02:30:49 PM

Quote from: Gigem on August 11, 2021, 02:26:05 PM

Very nice crib Marcus.  I will have something similar at my next place.  I actually filled in my in-ground pool 3-4 years ago because it needed more work than I was willing to spend and it was just really old overall.  But I loved having a pool.  Maybe someday when I build my new house...

Thanks!  We've enjoyed it.

It's a fantastic house for kids.  Once they move out, we'll almost certainly downsize.

I never thought I'd live in a cookie cutter McMansion in Suburbia, but I love our neighborhood, I love our neighbors, I love our schools, and I love the entire community.  It's much more close-knit than our old neighborhood in Austin proper, or any of our friends' neighborhoods who still live in Austin as well.  It reminds me of the way I grew up in the 70s/80s, with groups of kids roaming freely sunup to sundown, big block parties with ice cream socials and everything.  Halloween is a HUGE deal and everyone decorates big-time.  It's been a ton of fun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 11, 2021, 02:33:18 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 11, 2021, 02:30:49 PM

Thanks!  We've enjoyed it.

It's a fantastic house for kids.  Once they move out, we'll almost certainly downsize.

I never thought I'd live in a cookie cutter McMansion in Suburbia, but I love our neighborhood, I love our neighbors, I love our schools, and I love the entire community.  It's much more close-knit than our old neighborhood in Austin proper, or any of our friends' neighborhoods who still live in Austin as well.  It reminds me of the way I grew up in the 70s/80s, with groups of kids roaming freely sunup to sundown, big block parties with ice cream socials and everything.  Halloween is a HUGE deal and everyone decorates big-time.  It's been a ton of fun.

Sounds great. Should I move there? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2021, 02:40:16 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 11, 2021, 02:33:18 PM

Sounds great. Should I move there?

I've been informed that any place that isn't a coastal area in Florida is a complete shithole, so I'd say THAT'S where you want to move!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 11, 2021, 02:50:56 PM

Well how else is Austin supposed to rival Dallas or Houston in size, unless a bunch of people move there? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2021, 02:55:06 PM

Just have to settle for being a non-Floridian shithole, I guess.  That is our cross to bear. 

In other news, @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) desperately wants more neighbors and everyone should go move in next door to him!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2021, 02:58:47 PM

Bring it, so long as I get to interview everyone coming, to make sure they are suitable. ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 11, 2021, 03:07:21 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2021, 02:58:47 PM

Bring it, so long as I get to interview everyone coming, to make sure they are suitable. ;)

Racist 😉😜

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 11, 2021, 03:33:26 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 11, 2021, 02:30:49 PM

Thanks!  We've enjoyed it.

It's a fantastic house for kids.  Once they move out, we'll almost certainly downsize.

I never thought I'd live in a cookie cutter McMansion in Suburbia, but I love our neighborhood, I love our neighbors, I love our schools, and I love the entire community.  It's much more close-knit than our old neighborhood in Austin proper, or any of our friends' neighborhoods who still live in Austin as well.  It reminds me of the way I grew up in the 70s/80s, with groups of kids roaming freely sunup to sundown, big block parties with ice cream socials and everything.  Halloween is a HUGE deal and everyone decorates big-time.  It's been a ton of fun.

Sounds exactly like the neighborhoods I grew up in and the ones I raised my kids in, in Ohio and Michigan. Early ones were quite poor too.

Nice to see plenty of that still out there ( and it is NOT in the coastal Florida communities regardless of how “ you were advised “)

I have always thought fondly of those- as places, but more recently thought maybe they were “ times.”  I will be happy to rethink that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 11, 2021, 03:45:37 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 11, 2021, 03:07:21 PM

Racist 😉😜

Whenever someone tries to call me racist I always say the same thing- can’t be racist if you hate everyone the same. 

I don’t hate one race. I hate the entire human race. I’m rooting for the asteroid. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 11, 2021, 05:54:10 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 11, 2021, 03:45:37 PM

Whenever someone tries to call me racist I always say the same thing- can’t be racist if you hate everyone the same.

I don’t hate one race. I hate the entire human race. I’m rooting for the asteroid.

😂😂.  You are consistent! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 11, 2021, 05:58:37 PM

I don't understand the idea of hating people based on their race, nationality, religion, orientation, whatever... It's lazy.

If you spend a little time with someone, you'll soon learn many reasons to hate them on a purely individual basis. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2021, 06:01:32 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 11, 2021, 05:58:37 PM

I don't understand the idea of hating people based on their race, nationality, religion, orientation, whatever... It's lazy.

If you spend a little time with someone, you'll soon learn many reasons to hate them on a purely individual basis.

Exactement

(https://i.imgur.com/mPWpVIn.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 11, 2021, 07:06:04 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/epFHIxx.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 11, 2021, 07:13:41 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 11, 2021, 01:07:09 PM

So a couple weeks ago, my mom fell and broke her hip.

She went in and had surgery (luckily just a plate and screws rather than a hip replacement), recuperated for a couple days in the hospital, and then moved to a SNF for rehab and the rest of the recovery.

In two weeks in the SNF, she gained 40# of fluid weight, was extremely unhappy with her care, and she and my dad decided to go back to the hospital. That was Sunday.

As of yesterday I learned that she was being transferred to the ICU because the fluid wasn't properly draining and was affecting her heart, and she needs a catheter in her heart, carotid artery, and her neck in order to get the fluid drained. Without this treatment her condition would likely have been fatal within 48 hours...

Supposedly she's doing a little better this morning, and they just put the catheters in.

My wife and I are planning to fly out to Denver next week to support her in her recovery, and hoping that I won't have to fly out there within the next 24-48 because things turned south...

So... Good karma would be appreciated.

Sending karma and vibes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 11, 2021, 07:39:38 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 11, 2021, 07:06:04 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/epFHIxx.png)

thats pretty funny

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 11, 2021, 07:45:54 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 11, 2021, 01:07:09 PM

So a couple weeks ago, my mom fell and broke her hip.

She went in and had surgery (luckily just a plate and screws rather than a hip replacement), recuperated for a couple days in the hospital, and then moved to a SNF for rehab and the rest of the recovery.

In two weeks in the SNF, she gained 40# of fluid weight, was extremely unhappy with her care, and she and my dad decided to go back to the hospital. That was Sunday.

As of yesterday I learned that she was being transferred to the ICU because the fluid wasn't properly draining and was affecting her heart, and she needs a catheter in her heart, carotid artery, and her neck in order to get the fluid drained. Without this treatment her condition would likely have been fatal within 48 hours...

Supposedly she's doing a little better this morning, and they just put the catheters in.

My wife and I are planning to fly out to Denver next week to support her in her recovery, and hoping that I won't have to fly out there within the next 24-48 because things turned south...

So... Good karma would be appreciated.

Best wishes to your mom, bwarb.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 11, 2021, 07:57:11 PM

Just got a good word from my sister who is there... "Stable."

I like that word.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 11, 2021, 08:02:17 PM

Excellent

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 12, 2021, 06:50:05 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/JsdLh1B.png)  (https://i.imgur.com/zx2Lyef.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/yzDHSZI.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 12, 2021, 08:32:57 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 06, 2021, 08:44:15 AM

My reaction to that was more sadness.

My take is that he couldn't remember his name. ;)

Well it turns out you were correct. Yesterday in an online meeting he referred to the governor of Michigan as Jennifer. 😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 12, 2021, 09:32:29 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 12, 2021, 08:32:57 AM

Well it turns out you were correct. Yesterday in an online meeting he referred to the governor of Michigan as Jennifer. 😂😂

it's honestly very sad and straight up embarrassing to the entire country. the guy is 80 years old and his brain is melted, he should be in a nursing home, not the white house. he's only 7 months in and he's already way worse than Reagan was at the very tail end of his second term.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 12, 2021, 10:05:50 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 12, 2021, 09:32:29 AM

it's honestly very sad and straight up embarrassing to the entire country. the guy is 80 years old and his brain is melted, he should be in a nursing home, not the white house. he's only 7 months in and he's already way worse than Reagan was at the very tail end of his second term.

Does this stuff even register anymore? After the Trumpster, "embarrassing" has got to require something more than forgetting names. I'm thinking mooning the press corps or just randomly shouting curse words at young children.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 12, 2021, 10:07:33 AM

watch a Jim Harbuagh press conference

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 12, 2021, 10:25:48 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 12, 2021, 10:05:50 AM

Does this stuff even register anymore? After the Trumpster, "embarrassing" has got to require something more than forgetting names. I'm thinking mooning the press corps or just randomly shouting curse words at young children.

Forgetting names? Yeah, no. If that was it, no big deal, whatever. The guy is a driveling idiot that can't even speak in coherent sentences. He's obviously got dementia. He needs to be in a nursing home. Not leader of the free world. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 12, 2021, 10:28:34 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 12, 2021, 10:25:48 AM

Forgetting names? Yeah, no. If that was it, no big deal, whatever. The guy is a driveling idiot that can't even speak in coherent sentences. He's obviously got dementia. He needs to be in a nursing home. Not leader of the free world.

LOL we've already dealt with that and Mr. Man Camera TV. Dementia is an upgrade.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 12, 2021, 10:53:25 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 12, 2021, 10:28:34 AM

LOL we've already dealt with that and Mr. Man Camera TV. Dementia is an upgrade.

Huh? I tend to think people with dementia shouldn't have access to nuclear launch codes, but hey they that's just me.

Kind of funny that for all the "Trump is a Russian puppet!" BS he was much more hardline with Russia in action and deeds than the Obama administration ever dreamed of being, and it is the Biden administration that has been far more lenient and lax with the Putin regime. It is the Biden administration that just waived sanctions on Russia and approved a Russian natural gas pipeline into Germany, which wait for it- will hurt the EU/US and help Russia greatly. Yet you hear NOTHING, not a peep from the media about any of this.

Bunch of Russian oligarchs must've just bought some of those finger-paintings Dementia Joe's crackhead son made in rehab for $500k a pop. Have to give it to the Biden's- never seen a family more bold in their obvious bullshit pay-to-play money laundering schemes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 12, 2021, 10:53:50 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 12, 2021, 10:07:33 AM

watch a Jim Harbuagh press conference

😂😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 12, 2021, 10:54:45 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 12, 2021, 10:07:33 AM

watch a Jim Harbuagh press conference

facts. lmao.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 12, 2021, 11:00:09 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 12, 2021, 10:05:50 AM

Does this stuff even register anymore? After the Trumpster, "embarrassing" has got to require something more than forgetting names. I'm thinking mooning the press corps or just randomly shouting curse words at young children.

While I tend agree with you on “ embarrassing” things coming from POTUS. ( the bar was definitely lowered😂), I find it interesting that any defense of a criticism of the current POTUS is the standard “ but Trump, Trump”

That’s no defense at all, and silly. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 12, 2021, 11:12:17 AM

I don't like any of'em, film at 11.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 12, 2021, 11:26:16 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 12, 2021, 11:00:09 AM

While I tend agree with you on “ embarrassing” things coming from POTUS. ( the bar was definitely lowered😂), I find it interesting that any defense of a criticism of the current POTUS is the standard “ but Trump, Trump”

That’s no defense at all, and silly.

For real. One has nothing to do with the other. Trump literally broke people's brains. It's crazy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 12, 2021, 11:29:10 AM

Trump was mildly entertaining and unpredictable

anyone from the left was going to be nothing more than a sock puppet = no reason to listen

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 12, 2021, 11:40:39 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 12, 2021, 11:26:16 AM

For real. One has nothing to do with the other. Trump literally broke people's brains. It's crazy.

Lol - the idea that Biden is embarrassing cracks me up. World leaders repeatedly just laughed in Trump's face. It was a debacle. Now we are back to Biden messing up someone's name and pretending it means something. Sorry man, the standard has been raised...er...lowered.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 12, 2021, 12:26:34 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 12, 2021, 11:40:39 AM

Lol - the idea that Biden is embarrassing cracks me up. World leaders repeatedly just laughed in Trump's face. It was a debacle. Now we are back to Biden messing up someone's name and pretending it means something. Sorry man, the standard has been raised...er...lowered.

It's not an idea- it's fact. To have an 80 year old with clear signs of dementia leading the free world is just- embarrassing.

World leaders didn't laugh in Trump's face- they were bullied by Trump. The guy routinely wiped the floor with Theresa May, Emmanuel Macron, and Angela Merkel and talked shit to them right to their faces behind closed doors insulting them almost every other word and calling them all kinds of stupid- which admittedly they were/are all kinds of stupid and deserve more than just a verbal berating. This has been reported ad nauseum. They were for the most part cowards who were afraid to say anything to his face- all they would do is talk shit about him behind his back- kind of the definition of a coward. If you have something to say- say it to someones face- no?

Biden isn't just messing up words and names like someone that is obviously stupid like say George W- who would do that sort of stuff all the time. Biden has lost the plot- he can't even speak in coherent sentences. Example:


https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1418000816917594118?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1418000816917594118%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailywire.com%2Fnews%2Fcrushing-it-clip-of-biden-goes-viral-from-cnn-town-hall-event

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 12, 2021, 01:17:54 PM

Quote

World leaders didn't laugh in Trump's face- they were bullied by Trump. The guy routinely wiped the floor with Theresa May, Emmanuel Macron, and Angela Merkel and talked shit to them right to their faces behind closed doors insulting them almost every other word and calling them all kinds of stupid- which admittedly they were/are all kinds of stupid and deserve more than just a verbal berating.

LOL, well you are right, Trump did break people's brains. Other leaders treated him like a joke, but I guess the fantasy that he was tough and other people just cowered in fear is appealing, though the reality had a lot more Yakety Sax in the background. Leaders just laughed behind his back, laughed in his face, and he just had to take it, because he never had much idea what was going on. The country was a worldwide laughingstock for four years, and even now he sends out press releases that read like a four year old wrote them.


So, hey, the idea that Biden calling someone Jennifer is embarrassing is a cute trot in the time machine back when we had some standards. But those standards are gone and I doubt they will ever come back.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 12, 2021, 01:36:35 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 12, 2021, 01:17:54 PM

LOL, well you are right, Trump did break people's brains. Other leaders treated him like a joke, but I guess the fantasy that he was tough and other people just cowered in fear is appealing, though the reality had a lot more Yakety Sax in the background. Leaders just laughed behind his back, laughed in his face, and he just had to take it, because he never had much idea what was going on. The country was a worldwide laughingstock for four years, and even now he sends out press releases that read like a four year old wrote them.


So, hey, the idea that Biden calling someone Jennifer is embarrassing is a cute trot in the time machine back when we had some standards. But those standards are gone and I doubt they will ever come back.

they will be back in a little over 3 years

I just hope we are still a democracy by then

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 12, 2021, 02:49:19 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 12, 2021, 01:36:35 PM

they will be back in a little over 3 years

I just hope we are still a democracy by then

320:

Don't you think that we are a stronger democracy today than we were on January 6th?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 12, 2021, 02:49:53 PM

Funny stuff.  
“ you’re embarrassing POTUS was way worse than mine”


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E79w7fNPgl8

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 12, 2021, 03:31:27 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 12, 2021, 02:49:19 PM

320:

Don't you think that we are a stronger democracy today than we were on January 6th?

nope 

January 6th has nothing to do with anything

We have a President who is mentally incompetent we have our constitutional rights attacked on a daily basis

our southern border is non existent 

inflation is rising at an alarming rate

we are no longer energy independent 

I could go on and on but you get the picture

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 12, 2021, 04:41:54 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 12, 2021, 03:31:27 PM

nope

January 6th has nothing to do with anything

We have a President who is mentally incompetent we have our constitutional rights attacked on a daily basis

our southern border is non existent

inflation is rising at an alarming rate

we are no longer energy independent

I could go on and on but you get the picture

1.  Yes, it really does.  First of its kind.  Will it be the last?  I sure hope so.
2.  So, what's changed since the last 4.5 years?
3.  No, it isn't.  It wasn't anywhere close to leakproof during the previous administration.  It may be less leakproof now, but we're talking matters of degree.
4.  Inflation is a lagging indicator.  The causes predate Jan 2021.  Are today's policies going to make it worse?  I imagine that they will.
5.  We have not been energy independent in a long, long time.
6.  I think I get a different picture than the one you want me to get.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 12, 2021, 05:00:47 PM

Trump/Cuomo 2024 Presented by Cyber Ninjas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 12, 2021, 05:23:58 PM

https://apple.news/AO7ng3rf7RTKSth0ljb0v7Q

Untold: Malice at the Palace


Watched this last night.  Very good Documentary if you have an hour to use. Netflix. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 12, 2021, 05:27:20 PM

Cheshire Bridge fire: Repairs to the bridge will take at least one year, Atlanta DOT says - Atlanta Business Chronicle (bizjournals.com) (https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2021/08/11/cheshire-bridge-fire-closure-repairs.html?ana=TRUEANTHEMFB_AT&csrc=6398&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A New Content)

This is fairly near us, we don't use that road very often fortunately.  Bridge damaged by fire apparently.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 12, 2021, 05:35:32 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 12, 2021, 04:41:54 PM

1.  Yes, it really does.  First of its kind.  Will it be the last?  I sure hope so.
2.  So, what's changed since the last 4.5 years?
3.  No, it isn't.  It wasn't anywhere close to leakproof during the previous administration.  It may be less leakproof now, but we're talking matters of degree.
4.  Inflation is a lagging indicator.  The causes predate Jan 2021.  Are today's policies going to make it worse?  I imagine that they will.
5.  We have not been energy independent in a long, long time.
6.  I think I get a different picture than the one you want me to get.

2 Your right Trump is just as mentally incompetent as Biden

3 Your right nothing to see here 

4 Yep youre right again all the inflation cause happened under Trump

5 Hmmm seems like just last summer we were producing more oil then we needed
    but heck youre right again that just wasnt the case

6 Thanks for converting me CW

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 12, 2021, 06:27:24 PM

Heh!  You need to find yourself a sarcasm emoji, 320.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 12, 2021, 06:35:13 PM

Enjoy your politics. 

I played golf today and my mom is still alive. Not really interested in orange man vs potted plant debates today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 12, 2021, 06:47:55 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 02, 2020, 10:19:36 AM

... we're supposed to get our decks tiled this week, starting today.  Hopefully.  The wife has wanted this for two years now.  The deck surfaces are raw concrete, somewhat discolored in spots by rust.  I hope it looks better, the estimate came in under what I expected.

Cool crisp fall day here.  Nothing notable to report, but I see a lot of campaign signs dotted about so I infer we have an election shortly.  We have two Senate races this year, and one is likely to have a runoff.

Can you imagine if that seat is the pivotal seat for control?  The money spent here will prop up the economy.

I bring this up to note how long this thread had persisted.  The penultimate sentence is prescient.

We enjoy our decks more now for sure, at least the middle floor deck.  I rarely go out on the upper floor.  The lower floor is basically all plants and "undecked".

My beans and tomatos have withered I think due to moasic virus.  Bummer.  I need to try something else next year.  Fresh beans and maters is about the best thing you can grow, if you can grow them.  I had bad luck in Cincy as well, in part due to deer.

There is some satisfaction in growing your own food even in a condo.  We go to the pool nearly every day and I'm working on swimming.  Today unusually one other resident came for a short time, we usually have it to ourselves except on weekends.  My heart doc says I'm good to go but stay on the meds.  I'm supposed to drink less.

I had hopes of a Braves sweep over the Reds but it appears that won't happen.  The Reds have a solid team.  The Braves fantasy camp is to be held twice this year, Nov and Jan, I signed up for both.  It gives me incentive to work out.  Even young guys in shape are suffering by day 4.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 12, 2021, 07:29:42 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 12, 2021, 06:35:13 PM

Enjoy your politics.

I played golf today and my mom is still alive. Not really interested in orange man vs potted plant debates today.

Been there

You just gotta know we have the best medicine in the world and she's gonna make it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 12, 2021, 07:41:18 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 12, 2021, 05:00:47 PM

Trump/Cuomo 2024 Presented by Cyber Ninjas

They'd win the rural women vote, somehow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 13, 2021, 07:34:22 AM

It is the Dawg Days of summer here, sultry, a word I like.  Highs in the low 90s with humidity in the mid60s.  It's 72°F right now and 74°F in Cincy, which I like seeing for some obscure reason.  I recall thinking if I had to use the AC on the drive to work it would be "hot".

I prefer the dew point report, something that I suppose folks find confusing, but it combines T and RH usefully in my view.  A DP of 70 or more is really bad.  The other factor of course is wind speed, even a gentle breeze helps in the shade quite a bit.  These heat index things are not very useful to me.  "Feels like" is BS.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 13, 2021, 08:21:39 AM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 12, 2021, 04:41:54 PM

1.  Yes, it really does.  First of its kind.  Will it be the last?  I sure hope so.

You may want to revise that opinion. The US Capital building as been attacked on a number of occasions, with the most recent prior to Jan 6, being in 1983 by a leftist group protesting military action in Lebanon and Grenada. 


https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/01/07/us-capitol-violent-political-attacks/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 13, 2021, 08:33:31 AM

Good morning.  

A coffee and a few casts before starting the work day. If you zoom in you can actually see me on the dock. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 13, 2021, 08:37:55 AM

Your sunrises are as beautiful as our sunsets.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 13, 2021, 08:42:46 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 13, 2021, 07:34:22 AM

It is the Dawg Days of summer here, sultry, a word I like.  Highs in the low 90s with humidity in the mid60s.  It's 72°F right now and 74°F in Cincy, which I like seeing for some obscure reason.  I recall thinking if I had to use the AC on the drive to work it would be "hot".

I prefer the dew point report, something that I suppose folks find confusing, but it combines T and RH usefully in my view.  A DP of 70 or more is really bad.  The other factor of course is wind speed, even a gentle breeze helps in the shade quite a bit.  These heat index things are not very useful to me.  "Feels like" is BS.

as you know, heat index = "feels like" uses dew point and wind speed and a few other measurements

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 13, 2021, 08:54:50 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 13, 2021, 08:42:46 AM

as you know, heat index = "feels like" uses dew point and wind speed and a few other measurements

Yeah, I don't find the algorithm to be accurate at all.  Same with wind chill.  I think wind speed has a greater impact on "feels like" than they use.

A 30°F day with 15 mph wind is a lot worse, to me, than a 15°F day with no wind.

What is ‘feels like’ temperature? | Official blog of the Met Office news team (https://blog.metoffice.gov.uk/2012/02/15/what-is-feels-like-temperature/#:~:text=We calculate a 'feels like,during cold and windy days.)

We calculate a ‘feels like temperature by taking into account the expected air temperature, relative humidity and the strength of the wind at around 5 feet (the typical height of an human face) combined with our understanding of how heat is lost from the human body during cold and windy days.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 13, 2021, 09:00:36 AM

yes, they changed the wind chill calculation a decade or two ago

thankfully, now it doesn't feel nearly as cold in NW Iowa during the winter

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 13, 2021, 10:28:14 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 12, 2021, 02:49:53 PM

Funny stuff. 
“ you’re embarrassing POTUS was way worse than mine”


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E79w7fNPgl8

That's just the tip of the iceberg. That's when he was running. He's worse now and he gets worse by the day. Go back and watch old videos of the do nothing politician who was in the senate for nearly 40 years and accomplished nothing of note- and you'll see a very different person. The dude is like 80 years old now and clearly has dementia. It's very sad to see and it's embarrassing to the entire nation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 13, 2021, 10:35:32 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 12, 2021, 01:36:35 PM

they will be back in a little over 3 years

I just hope we are still a democracy by then

we've never had democracy. we have an illusional of democracy. the us is a constitutional representative republic. that isn't going to change any time soon. can't have the people actually vote & decide on issues directly because: oh no that would be bad for the elites! Carlin was 100% right when he said, America is a country club- and you ain't in it.

I am far more concerned about censorship and our constitutional rights being eroded slowly but surely, and the illegal monopolies which have captured the government and increasingly wield enormous power over the lives of everyday citizens in this country. We have anti-trust laws on the books for a reason. Yet the government does nothing to enforce these laws. In fact they do the opposite and approve every massive merger and acquisition that comes down the pike. We desperately need another Teddy Roosevelt who will smash them up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 13, 2021, 10:44:52 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 13, 2021, 10:35:32 AM

we've never had democracy. we have an illusional of democracy. the us is a constitutional representative republic. that isn't going to change any time soon. can't have the people actually vote & decide on issues directly because: oh no that would be bad for the elites! Carlin was 100% right when he said, America is a country club- and you ain't in it.

I am far more concerned about censorship and our constitutional rights being eroded slowly but surely, and the illegal monopolies which have captured the government and increasingly wield enormous power over the lives of everyday citizens in this country. We have anti-trust laws on the books for a reason. Yet the government does nothing to enforce these laws. In fact they do the opposite and approve every massive merger and acquisition that comes down the pike. We desperately need another Teddy Roosevelt who will smash them up.

I couldnt agree more on this.  I strongly feel that the dems will lose the house in 2022 and have hope the new guys will fix this.  At least that my hope

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 13, 2021, 10:47:40 AM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 12, 2021, 02:49:19 PM

320:

Don't you think that we are a stronger democracy today than we were on January 6th?

January 6th is more hyped up than Notre Dame or Michigan football combined. People need to put that to rest already. Most significant non-event in US history. Find it hilarious that Mrs. Defund the Police herself- AOC- as well as two other members of "THE SQUAD!" voted present instead of voting NO- which allowed a $2 billion funding increase to the Capitol Police to pass through the house by 1 vote. 

As if the federal gov't & the bureaucracy wasn't hideous and bloated enough- they are now throwing $2 BILLION more to Policing and trying to turn the Capitol Police into a national agency and open offices in other states.

So in conclusion- AOC is cool with spending billions on police for herself- but hey your neighborhoods and your kids neighborhoods- DEFUND THAT SHIT.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 13, 2021, 10:57:18 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 13, 2021, 10:44:52 AM

I couldnt agree more on this.  I strongly feel that the dems will lose the house in 2022 and have hope the new guys will fix this.  At least that my hope

there's no hope
the new guys are the same as the old guys

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 13, 2021, 10:58:44 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 12, 2021, 01:17:54 PM

LOL, well you are right, Trump did break people's brains. Other leaders treated him like a joke, but I guess the fantasy that he was tough and other people just cowered in fear is appealing, though the reality had a lot more Yakety Sax in the background. Leaders just laughed behind his back, laughed in his face, and he just had to take it, because he never had much idea what was going on. The country was a worldwide laughingstock for four years, and even now he sends out press releases that read like a four year old wrote them.


So, hey, the idea that Biden calling someone Jennifer is embarrassing is a cute trot in the time machine back when we had some standards. But those standards are gone and I doubt they will ever come back.

You clearly don't follow the news cycle as much as you think you do. There was wide reporting on Trump bullying Europe and it's leaders- from every news outlet you can think of. Not one of them hit back to him to his face- the worst they could do is talk about him behind his back- because they were ineffective cowards as leaders. May got ousted, Merkel's time is about up now, and Macron has a revolt on his hands from his own citizens and it's just a matter of time before they give him the boot. 


https://time.com/5598980/trump-europe-bullying/
https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trumop-europe-hour-has-come/
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/21/opinion/europe-trump-bullying.html
https://europeansting.com/2019/06/03/trumps-america-divides-the-world-bullies-china-and-europe/

And honestly- it was about f*kn time a politician from the US started throwing their dick around to Europe and China. Trump was 100% right when he railed at EU nations like Germany for not spending dick on NATO and letting the US pay for their security for decades- only for Germany to increasingly buy from Russia/China and not buy US energy and other goods & services & products from US companies. 

And again- Biden doesn't just mispronounce names- the guy is a senile driveling dementia case at this point. That's what is embarassing- not him mispronouncing a few names here or there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 13, 2021, 11:03:26 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 13, 2021, 10:57:18 AM

there's no hope
the new guys are the same as the old guys

well we are going to find out
hope youre wrong

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 13, 2021, 11:11:24 AM

https://decider.com/2021/08/10/untold-malice-at-the-palace-movie-review/

Did anyone else happen to watch this on Netflix?  It’s pretty good. 

The Famous NBA brawl and what actually happened- and far reaching impacts. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on August 13, 2021, 11:20:50 AM

Just saw it on my Netflix home screen last night. Will definitely watch it.

I remember seeing the fight live at a friend's apartment while pregaming for some Friday night party. The game was on in the background until one of us saw it. All of us were slack-jawed watching it develop.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 13, 2021, 11:28:57 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 13, 2021, 08:21:39 AM

You may want to revise that opinion. The US Capital building as been attacked on a number of occasions, with the most recent prior to Jan 6, being in 1983 by a leftist group protesting military action in Lebanon and Grenada.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/01/07/us-capitol-violent-political-attacks/

I'm not condoning the 1983 attack.  I don't remember it--maybe because I was in Grenada at the time--but I hope that the capital cops gave better than they got.

But that leftist group was not trying to stop the approval of the electoral college votes so as to overturn the result of a presidential election.
We've had riots in Washington before.  We've had riots around the Capitol before.  But, until 6 January 2021, we had never had an attempt to violently reverse a presidential election.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 13, 2021, 11:37:08 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 13, 2021, 11:03:26 AM

well we are going to find out
hope youre wrong

I hoped Trump was a new guy

found out he wasn't much different

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 13, 2021, 11:37:59 AM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 13, 2021, 11:28:57 AM

I'm not condoning the 1983 attack.  I don't remember it--maybe because I was in Grenada at the time--but I hope that the capital cops gave better than they got.

But that leftist group was not trying to stop the approval of the electoral college votes so as to overturn the result of a presidential election.
We've had riots in Washington before.  We've had riots around the Capitol before.  But, until 6 January 2021, we had never had an attempt to violently reverse a presidential election.

maybe we should have

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 13, 2021, 12:32:53 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 13, 2021, 11:28:57 AM

I'm not condoning the 1983 attack.  I don't remember it--maybe because I was in Grenada at the time--but I hope that the capital cops gave better than they got.

But that leftist group was not trying to stop the approval of the electoral college votes so as to overturn the result of a presidential election.
We've had riots in Washington before.  We've had riots around the Capitol before.  But, until 6 January 2021, we had never had an attempt to violently reverse a presidential election.

There was no attempt to reverse a vote. They were there to protest the results and urge their elected officials to vote against confirming the vote which would have then pushed the decision to the House, as per the Constitution.

The narrative that they were trying to overthrow the government with an unarmed group of people, most of which were simply walking through and taking pictures, is absurd.  I'm not saying that there were a few that were out of line, breaking windows and pushing and attempting to fight with the Capital police. But a majority of them were not behaving this way. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 13, 2021, 12:39:46 PM

My impression is they had the goal of altering the outcome of the vote, and clearly some of the group were willing to use violence to achieve that aim.

That is an extra legal activity obviously, and had they somehow succeeded, it would have been a very bad thing in my view.  Every subsequent election would be hostage to threat of force.  The System would simply fail.

Had they protested outside the Capitol, they would have been within their rights, aside perhaps from not having a permit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 13, 2021, 12:49:28 PM

some of the group, not many, gave it a weak effort to change the election result to see what would happen

it certainly wasn't a well planned or serious effort.  no real serious violence - no shots fired

capital police probably would have given more resistance if not for the previous issues with regard to police using too much force recklessly

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 13, 2021, 04:48:04 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 13, 2021, 12:32:53 PM

There was no attempt to reverse a vote. They were there to protest the results and urge their elected officials to vote against confirming the vote which would have then pushed the decision to the House, as per the Constitution.

The narrative that they were trying to overthrow the government with an unarmed group of people, most of which were simply walking through and taking pictures, is absurd.  I'm not saying that there were a few that were out of line, breaking windows and pushing and attempting to fight with the Capital police. But a majority of them were not behaving this way.

The portable gallows and the shouts of "Hang Mike Pence" were not just a protest of the results of the election.
IMO, it's the attempt to normalize that day that is absurd.
I guess we'll just disagree about that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 13, 2021, 05:12:49 PM

Had the crowd been somehow able to alter the election, it would have been extra legal, and a bad thing in my view.  If they merely meant to protest, the obviously did it in a bad way, in my view.  Some were violent and caused mayhem and injuries.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 13, 2021, 05:20:09 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/g37ewEg.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 13, 2021, 06:03:12 PM

New census data shows Georgia growing more diverse, shifting in population – WSB-TV Channel 2 - Atlanta (wsbtv.com) (https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/new-census-data-shows-georgia-growing-more-diverse-shifting-population/E3D34SVGKRFRTILOO7D4U3OS7Q/?fbclid=IwAR2HySs0Qptqy-LX3awoXsJcPyibmpAzmBHC3iR5Z_i2IyZCgxsyewSKsE4)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 13, 2021, 08:01:28 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 13, 2021, 05:12:49 PM

Had the crowd been somehow able to alter the election, it would have been extra legal, and a bad thing in my view.  If they merely meant to protest, the obviously did it in a bad way, in my view.  Some were violent and caused mayhem and injuries.

they weren't going to be able to alter the election

they did it in a bad way, obviously
shouts of hang mike pence are nothing more than a verbal protest

yes, a few idiots in the crowd might have actually wanted to hang Pence, but come on man

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 13, 2021, 08:02:54 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 13, 2021, 04:48:04 PM

The portable gallows and the shouts of "Hang Mike Pence" were not just a protest of the results of the election.
IMO, it's the attempt to normalize that day that is absurd.
I guess we'll just disagree about that.

Who is normalizing that day? All I see people here saying is- yeah let's not overreact. It's more than a gigantic stretch however to imply or say it was an "armed insurrection attempting to overthrow the government!"

First of all- it was a small group of complete and utter morons, rejects, and inbreds who wouldn't know how to overthrow a government if their lives depended on it. They all clearly broke the law and deserve to be arrested and prosecuted- but no one was armed except for the police. There were what- anywhere from 30,000 to 50,000 people marching towards the Capitol protesting, how many of them were the inbreds who stormed the Capitol and destroyed property? 800-1,000 at most maybe. So a tiny fraction take matters into their own hands and break the law and suddenly the other 99+% there are guilty too?

And how many people died that day? 4 people died that day, 4 of them Trump supporters. No lawmakers were killed and no capitol police were killed that day. 4 people died that day. 1 Trump supporter who died of a heart attack, another Trump supporter who died of a meth overdose, another Trump supporter who died of a stroke, and then a 4th Trump supporter who was shot in the neck by Capitol Police for attempting to crawl through a broken window. There was a 5th person that died the following day who was a Capitol Police Officer- but he died of a stroke- of natural causes- he didn't die by getting his brains bashed in by a fire extinguisher like the god awful useless garbage mainstream media initially reported for months.

Look, it was undoubtedly a politically motivated riot and despicable to say the least- but calling it anything other than that is again- more than a gigantic stretch.

And what was the gov'ts response? To make a hard right wing turn towards MORE authoritarianism, violate MORE privacy rights of everyday American citizens & push for MORE surveillance of everyday American citizens, push for MORE censorship on social media platforms, and to add $2 BILLION more in Capitol Police funding and try to turn it into a bloated intelligence agency instead of a policing agency that is suppose to you know- only protect the Capitol- and open Capitol Police offices in other states- first time that's ever happened. Having Capitol Police offices anywhere outside of DC makes zero f#n sense.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 13, 2021, 10:30:19 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/s640x640/231512752_2127456207401882_6212222686060185557_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=DNHSIx8WBTIAX8a0EGD&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=08b41d29b03430322b669e1e22ff49c8&oe=613BDADA)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 14, 2021, 01:42:08 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 13, 2021, 08:02:54 PM

Who is normalizing that day? All I see people here saying is- yeah let's not overreact. It's more than a gigantic stretch however to imply or say it was an "armed insurrection attempting to overthrow the government!"

First of all- it was a small group of complete and utter morons, rejects, and inbreds who wouldn't know how to overthrow a government if their lives depended on it. They all clearly broke the law and deserve to be arrested and prosecuted- but no one was armed except for the police. There were what- anywhere from 30,000 to 50,000 people marching towards the Capitol protesting, how many of them were the inbreds who stormed the Capitol and destroyed property? 800-1,000 at most maybe. So a tiny fraction take matters into their own hands and break the law and suddenly the other 99+% there are guilty too?

And how many people died that day? 4 people died that day, 4 of them Trump supporters. No lawmakers were killed and no capitol police were killed that day. 4 people died that day. 1 Trump supporter who died of a heart attack, another Trump supporter who died of a meth overdose, another Trump supporter who died of a stroke, and then a 4th Trump supporter who was shot in the neck by Capitol Police for attempting to crawl through a broken window. There was a 5th person that died the following day who was a Capitol Police Officer- but he died of a stroke- of natural causes- he didn't die by getting his brains bashed in by a fire extinguisher like the god awful useless garbage mainstream media initially reported for months.

Look, it was undoubtedly a politically motivated riot and despicable to say the least- but calling it anything other than that is again- more than a gigantic stretch.

And what was the gov'ts response? To make a hard right wing turn towards MORE authoritarianism, violate MORE privacy rights of everyday American citizens & push for MORE surveillance of everyday American citizens, push for MORE censorship on social media platforms, and to add $2 BILLION more in Capitol Police funding and try to turn it into a bloated intelligence agency instead of a policing agency that is suppose to you know- only protect the Capitol- and open Capitol Police offices in other states- first time that's ever happened. Having Capitol Police offices anywhere outside of DC makes zero f#n sense.

Please reflect on this post.
The bolded parts are:
"let's not overreact".......ummmm, what you describe as "a small group of complete and utter morons, rejects, and inbreds" attacked the US Capitol building AND GOT IN.  They had free reign to do what they wanted and happened not to interact with lawmakers, basically by dumb luck.  So you're (and others) are suggest we not overreact when a small group of morons can successfully storm the Captiol.
.
(only) "4 people died that day".......you're downplaying the loss of life.  You further downplay it by specifying what they weren't.  This is another despicable tactic.  Also, measuring an event simply by the loss of life and ignoring all other injuries/hospital visits/permanent injuries is disgusting as well.
.
"push for MORE surveillance of everyday American citizens".........wake up, bud.  US citizens are the dangerous enemy now.  The caricature of the turban-wearing Arab with a shoe bomb isn't taking lives today.  Rufus the town fix-it guy, with his 'don't treat on me' flags waving high IS.  WAKE UP!  If you have nothing to hide, then you're not being surveilled.  And if you are, then it's a waste of time and that program needs to be corrected.  The point is, an non-descript American citizen can be just as much of a threat as the guy you're still wary of when getting on a plane with a name you can't pronounce.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 14, 2021, 08:10:19 AM

"US citizens are the dangerous enemy now"?

Huh.  That seems to be an over generalization.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 14, 2021, 08:45:18 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 14, 2021, 08:10:19 AM

"US citizens are the dangerous enemy now"?

Huh.  That seems to be an over generalization.

You are wasting your time cd.  You are an independent thinker trying to have a conversation with “the real Rufus“ who sees everything through his political spectrum.

he sees himself as one of our “elite” 😂
you know -the ones who think they’re smarter than you and therefore have to set the rules for you so they can control you. Just like Obama, Rasheed Talib, and all the other pro mask mandate Talking Heads who always get caught off camera breaking the rules they so vehemently want to apply to others.

He reads stories from CNN like the one the other day where they talked 4 school teachers from Broward county who died from Covid in the same day and then they pan directly to governor DeSantis as if he had something to do with that. But of course what they don’t tell you is that all four were NOT vaccinated-and the school district they work in doesn’t even begins school until next week. But he will throw that on the Internet as if it actually is a story told in it’s true context.  Yes Rufus is the real spreader of miss information.

he accuses MDot of sweeping death and destruction under the rug. But he ignores the 90 consecutive days of RIOTING we saw in this country where there were dozens and dozens of deaths, property, including federal buildings, court houses and police stations,  were burned and looted to the value of billions and billions of dollars, innocent people were mercilessly beaten to death for not complying with the mobs opinion, and dozens and dozens of law enforcement officers were killed or seriously injured.  He sweeps that under the rug.  He sweeps under the rug that people that fall on his side of his famous political spectrum, were the ones doing all of this damage and the ones bailing out those who were caught and arrested.

Do you see the obvious pattern?  He completely loses his shit for anyone that has a different opinion. Sound familiar? 

he has a fixation for “Rufus“ and rural “
Murica” - because that is the polarized way in which he views the world.  Either you see things his way or you’re stupid. How familiar is that?

he may actually have some thing when he says US citizens may be the biggest threat but again he’s looking at that from his side of his political spectrum. BLM, antifa, many in the main stream media, and many who hold high positions in federal office are a huge threat to this country.

you will never hear him talk about the “four”dead if it’s in reference to one shooting in Chicago or Philadelphia or Washington DC- things that happen multiple times every single weekend all over this country.  He sweeps those things under the rug effortlessly because they are not issues to him because those are crimes perpetrated almost exclusively by Black people.
he doesn’t play his own stupid game fairly though. He will politicize anything he can but it only applies to those he opposes. You will never hear him talk about the negligence in New York and Michigan where governors put people with Covid into nursing homes and caused thousands to die. But he will yell at DeSantis for giving people a choice of whether or not to have their children wear masks even though the science, and this is the important point, the science is against his argument. 

so yeah CD, you’re wasting your time trying to have a logical conversation with him. I don’t even take anything he posts seriously.  I don’t deal too much with people who politicize everything and try to alter the fax to their point of you with gobs and gobs of confirmation bias, but won’t stick around to have the conversation because they get so angry.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 14, 2021, 08:49:18 AM

I'm not having a logical conversation, I'm pointing out some "over generalizations", in my view.  But I'm "sophisticated" and "vaccinated", so I'm immune.

The partisan "angles" on the Jan. 6 attacks are indicative of partisanship, in my view, and are predictable, and I think both are wrong because they are trying to spin the event either way, instead of taking it as it actually was.  Using it as evidence that US citizens are somehow our greatest threat is one angle, and basically claiming it was a "mostly peaceful protest" is another.

But, we all expect spin and positioning and hype.  I think most of "us" have a pretty good opinion on what it was.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 14, 2021, 08:57:39 AM

"Except our own thoughts, there is nothing absolutely in our power." - René Descartes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 14, 2021, 08:59:41 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 14, 2021, 08:49:18 AM

I'm not having a logical conversation, I'm pointing out some "over generalizations", in my view.  But I'm "sophisticated" and "vaccinated", so I'm immune.

The partisan "angles" on the Jan. 6 attacks are indicative of partisanship, in my view, and are predictable, and I think both are wrong because they are trying to spin the event either way, instead of taking it as it actually was.  Using it as evidence that US citizens are somehow our greatest threat is one angle, and basically claiming it was a "mostly peaceful protest" is another.

But, we all expect spin and positioning and hype.  I think most of "us" have a pretty good opinion on what it was.

Bingo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 14, 2021, 11:03:23 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 14, 2021, 08:49:18 AM

I'm not having a logical conversation, I'm pointing out some "over generalizations", in my view.  But I'm "sophisticated" and "vaccinated", so I'm immune.

The partisan "angles" on the Jan. 6 attacks are indicative of partisanship, in my view, and are predictable, and I think both are wrong because they are trying to spin the event either way, instead of taking it as it actually was.  Using it as evidence that US citizens are somehow our greatest threat is one angle, and basically claiming it was a "mostly peaceful protest" is another.

But, we all expect spin and positioning and hype.  I think most of "us" have a pretty good opinion on what it was.

I don't know if you include me in that group that believes it was a mostly peaceful protest or not. But I agree with almost everything in your post.

What I will say is that a vast majority of those that protested at the capital that day were NOT the idiots and morons that were breaking windows and doors and trying to get into restricted areas. There were a number of them that did and they should all be prosecuted for their crimes. 

But the problem is that the media blew this thing somewhat out of proportion by focusing on the most insane and bizarre of the group, while ignoring the many peaceful that were not acting like idiots. 

Just for the record, I am not condoning what any of them did that were breaking the law. All I am saying is that it is being portrayed as something that it was not. Were there a few that thought they could alter the vote? Most likely there were. But they were a very small minority that day, but have received all of the focus. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 14, 2021, 11:55:45 AM

a small minority from the far right organizations that are down right crazy and dangerous

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 14, 2021, 12:41:16 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 14, 2021, 11:55:45 AM

a small minority from the far right organizations that are down right crazy and dangerous

glad its just a small group and that they dont burn down businesses or loot

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 14, 2021, 01:12:37 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 14, 2021, 08:45:18 AM

He reads stories from CNN like the one the other day where they talked 4 school teachers from Broward county who died from Covid in the same day and then they pan directly to governor DeSantis as if he had something to do with that. But of course what they don’t tell you is that all four were NOT vaccinated-and the school district they work in doesn’t even begins school until next week. But he will throw that on the Internet as if it actually is a story told in it’s true context.  Yes Rufus is the real spreader of miss information.

I specifically didn't mention this for 2 reasons:
a- it has nothing to do with the topic
b- the deaths had nothing to do with the teachers doing their job
.
I'm sorry that I'm not a blind lefty like you paint me out to be.  It is interesting that you include this paragraph, conjuring it from nothing.  Off-topic, not mentioned by me, yet you toss it in there.  Good for you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 14, 2021, 01:15:32 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 14, 2021, 08:45:18 AM

he doesn’t play his own stupid game fairly though. He will politicize anything he can but it only applies to those he opposes. You will never hear him talk about the negligence in New York and Michigan where governors put people with Covid into nursing homes and caused thousands to die. But he will yell at DeSantis for giving people a choice of whether or not to have their children wear masks even though the science, and this is the important point, the science is against his argument. 

Did someone laud the NY and MI governors here?  If I'm criticizing someone's positive post about DeSantis, that's what my post is going to focus on.  
.
Do you eat red herring for dinner every night?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 14, 2021, 01:18:42 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/china-alters-medal-count-hong-kong-taiwan-gold-medal-us

The Chinese media is almost as deceptive as our own. 😂🤣

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 14, 2021, 01:23:47 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 14, 2021, 01:18:42 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/china-alters-medal-count-hong-kong-taiwan-gold-medal-us

The Chinese media is almost as deceptive as our own. 😂🤣

At least we can agree on that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 14, 2021, 01:25:14 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 14, 2021, 11:03:23 AM

But the problem is that the media blew this thing somewhat out of proportion by focusing on the most insane and bizarre of the group, while ignoring the many peaceful that were not acting like idiots.

The US Capitol building was stormed, penetrated, and vandalized, and there were deaths and serious injuries.  What the hell else would they focus on?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 14, 2021, 01:42:43 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 14, 2021, 08:45:18 AM

he has a fixation for “Rufus“ and rural “
Murica” - because that is the polarized way in which he views the world.  Either you see things his way or you’re stupid. How familiar is that?

This is also a tired, incorrect invention.  The "he thinks they're stupid" bit.  Stop.  

In using certain words, I AM absolutely describing a cultural subset of people.  But these people aren't stupid - that's what makes it so frustrating.  If they were stupid, I wouldn't bother with it.  
But on the average, yes, they are less educated.  Hmm, I wonder why that specific phrase is a thing....hmmm, maybe it's because they're not less intelligent.  Maybe it's because they simply lack the higher education that sort of comes in handy when discussing and acting on these complicated matters!?!!
These less educated people aren't any less able to understand something, but I will suggest that they're more susceptible to being pandered to and not knowing or caring about it.  They're probably more likely to expose themselves to confirmation bias because it's comfortable.  They're less likely to actually watch/listen to the "other side" and just believe what theyre being told about the othr side.  

The "poorly educated" are a lost opportunity of good things in our country.  But they tend to travel less, tend to move fewer times, etc.  Yes, their "crime" is tending to exist in more of a bubble, which is no crime at all.  
But trying to penetrate that bubble for their benefit isn't a crime, either.  And for the most part, the only people who think they are stupid are the ones feeding them nonsense 24/7.  
Yes, those taking advantage of them are the ones who think they're stupid.  Not me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 14, 2021, 02:08:41 PM

So the educated thing to do is to fully submit to the trendiest ideology that you can possibly find, which commands strict obedience to 100% of their insane dogma no matter how illogical or hypocritical it gets, otherwise "yer an uneducated deplorable alt right nazi klansman from the trailer park!"? 

Clearly a very compelling recruiting pitch. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 14, 2021, 03:07:46 PM

How on earth did you get that from my post?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 14, 2021, 03:33:17 PM

It's just amusing to me when being a spineless conformist who just mindlessly assimilates to the borg is touted as the "educated" option.

As inviting as all that sounds, I think I'll just stick with the ole "thinking for oneself" instead. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 14, 2021, 03:39:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 14, 2021, 01:25:14 PM

The US Capitol building was stormed, penetrated, and vandalized, and there were deaths and serious injuries.  What the hell else would they focus on?

3 of the 4 deaths were from medical emergencies .That's not even a good day for your knuckle dragging goons. In Cleveland you didn't seem to care your yapping jackels had injured dozens of horses from the mounted unit .Because like those bus shelters those horses had it coming

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 14, 2021, 04:12:49 PM

This level of political discussion is fascinating, as usual. :34:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 14, 2021, 07:23:31 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on August 14, 2021, 03:33:17 PM

It's just amusing to me when being a spineless conformist who just mindlessly assimilates to the borg is touted as the "educated" option.

As inviting as all that sounds, I think I'll just stick with the ole "thinking for oneself" instead.

I literally have no idea what you're talking about.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 14, 2021, 07:26:03 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 14, 2021, 03:39:26 PM

3 of the 4 deaths were from medical emergencies .That's not even a good day for your knuckle dragging goons. In Cleveland you didn't seem to care your yapping jackels had injured dozens of horses from the mounted unit .Because like those bus shelters those horses had it coming

Was someone on this board defending them?  
I'm interacting with your posts, guys.  My lack of criticizing the abhorrent actions and ideas from the leftists are because none of you are defending them.
.
Do you not see this????
There are ignorant, irrational people on both radical ends of the spectrum, but a certain group of you only defend the conservative ones, and so that's who I'm interacting with here.
.
You're not blind enough to miss that, are you?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 15, 2021, 08:41:00 AM

Surprise

[font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif]https://thefederalist.com/2021/08/15/ceo-of-fact-checking-website-snopes-suspended-for-lying/[/font] (https://thefederalist.com/2021/08/15/ceo-of-fact-checking-website-snopes-suspended-for-lying/)[/iurl]

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2021, 08:48:26 AM

I can tell which side a person is on, one side makes light of it all, and the other tries to turn it into something it clearly wasn't to make it seem even more serious.

It was neither, in my view.

At any rate, life goes on.  I think it worth considering possible government over reach and over reaction, which I think we are prone to doing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 15, 2021, 11:41:13 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 14, 2021, 07:26:03 PM

Was someone on this board defending them? 
I'm interacting with your posts, guys.  My lack of criticizing the abhorrent actions and ideas from the leftists are because none of you are defending them.
.
Do you not see this????
There are ignorant, irrational people on both radical ends of the spectrum, but a certain group of you only defend the conservative ones, and so that's who I'm interacting with here.
.
You're not blind enough to miss that, are you?

I've not defended or voted for Trump you paint with a wide brush.Got any more of those drugs?How many of you are in there? You vacillate so much like a yammering yeti on fire forgetting half of your bombast from last summer. You obviously blow past giving cheer and sympathy to those destroying other people's property.I even stated I hoped your heroes visit your neighborhood next. Others have taken note it's why your credibility keeps collapsing in on itself.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 15, 2021, 02:25:23 PM

I'm flattered that you've decided to focus on me, but I don't see why.  Hypocrisy is what one end of the spectrum is doing now, in regards to banning local leadership from deciding what's best for them after demanding that be the case a year ago.  
.
As for me and the looters/antifa stories/posts:
I have said looting is wrong
I have said they tried simply kneeling, but that was just too outrageous
I have said the looting is predictable, because when non-violent means are ignored.....
.
I'll say now that democrats are idiots who have basically given away the biggest political advantage I've ever seen - and they've given it away over woke culture.  There is no such thing as too woke, and that's the sword they're falling on.  Pronouns and cancel culture and an obsession over trans people has seen them volunteer over their political advantage Trump gave them.
.
Meanwhile, the republicans continue winning with bad ideas, simply by lying and giving horrific ideas positive, patriotic names.  It'd be comical if it wasn't so important.  But it is what it is.
.
Neither party is catering to the prudent citizens of the country.  No news outlet is telling it like it is.  And no one who should be in power seeks it out.  God bless 'Murica.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 15, 2021, 02:37:28 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 15, 2021, 02:25:23 PM

. . . Neither party is catering to the prudent citizens of the country.  No news outlet is telling it like it is.  And no one who should be in power seeks it out. . . .

Amen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 16, 2021, 07:50:10 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 15, 2021, 02:25:23 PM

volunteer over their political advantage Trump gave them.

China.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 16, 2021, 08:37:55 AM

Here's another oddity, Sweden has not experiened this recent surge at all.  India is way down.  I can't explain either.  Spain is clearly dropping now, the UK dropped some and then went flat, France APPEARS to have peaked, but that is early.

Florida is still going up apparently, so is GA.

I'm not picking up a lot of news about it locally, no warnings about hospitals, yet.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 16, 2021, 09:14:44 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_OT3ucI39g

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 16, 2021, 10:02:36 AM

The thing about "man in the street" interviews is you never know how many interviews were taken and what percentage was shown.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on August 16, 2021, 10:38:59 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 16, 2021, 10:02:36 AM

The thing about "man in the street" interviews is you never know how many interviews were taken and what percentage was shown.

Obviously much lower stakes, but when I was in 5th grade, my buddy and I rode our bikes over to the high school to try and kick field goals on the HS field.  We were unaware that the teachers were voting to end what was the longest teacher strike in Ann Arbor history (I think it was 2 weeks at that point)

There were news trucks everywhere, so we rode over to see what was up.  One of the reporters grabbed us for a statement, and I said something like "well, we have to make up all the days anyway, so I'd rather just go back now, so we still get winter break."  He screamed "no school again forever!"  Only one of us was on the news, guess which one?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 16, 2021, 10:49:20 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 16, 2021, 10:02:36 AM

The thing about "man in the street" interviews is you never know how many interviews were taken and what percentage was shown.

Man on the street interviews are among our silliest television news traditions. Also to a degree print news.

It’s literally just a measure of who wants to go on camera. Talking to folks on the street can have a modest degree of value. But often it’s just to check a box. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 16, 2021, 11:37:55 AM

I love it when they go to a coffee shop in a small conservative  town and are shocked when they get conservative views

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 16, 2021, 11:41:45 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 16, 2021, 11:37:55 AM

I love it when they go to a coffee shop in a small conservative  town and are shocked when they get conservative views

And then they act startled that conservative views even exist, despite the fact that roughly half the country's population votes conservative in every presidential election.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 16, 2021, 11:43:36 AM

more than half in the last presidential election

;)

:::ducks and runs for cover:::

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 16, 2021, 11:46:35 AM

Garth Brooks played Memorial Stadium in Lincoln for 90,000 fans

maybe 9 masks

super spreader?????


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/235465174_4320306794689610_6940092471019360110_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=gJ6ebDK4y-wAX_eyTAW&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=8bb75af85ff4a90353f114c0884e2ba2&oe=613E48DD)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 16, 2021, 11:48:20 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 16, 2021, 11:41:45 AM

And then they act startled that conservative views even exist, despite the fact that roughly half the country's population votes conservative in every presidential election.

Post of the month.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 16, 2021, 11:48:41 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 16, 2021, 11:43:36 AM

more than half in the last presidential election

;)

:::ducks and runs for cover:::

😂😂😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 16, 2021, 11:49:29 AM

Wow Garth Brooks can still sell out a 90K stadium?  That's pretty impressive.  

First time I saw him was at a free show he did outside the Cotton Bowl at Fair Park in Dallas immediately following the TX-OU game in 1990, and I saw him twice in Austin over the next few years.  He always put on a great show.  Loved to play Billy Joel covers back when, probably still does.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 16, 2021, 12:10:10 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 16, 2021, 11:37:55 AM

I love it when they go to a coffee shop in a small conservative  town and are shocked when they get conservative views

I, um, don’t think that’s how that works.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 16, 2021, 12:15:00 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 16, 2021, 11:49:29 AM

Wow Garth Brooks can still sell out a 90K stadium?  That's pretty impressive. 

We're all so starved for entertainment after COVID that Garth from Wayne's World could probably sell out 90K :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 16, 2021, 12:17:01 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 16, 2021, 11:41:45 AM

And then they act startled that conservative views even exist, despite the fact that roughly half the country's population votes conservative in every presidential election.

Next you’ll tell me that California has more Republicans Texas and Texas has more Democrats than New York or something

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 16, 2021, 12:20:39 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 16, 2021, 12:15:00 PM

We're all so starved for entertainment after COVID that Garth from Wayne's World could probably sell out 90K :57:

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/236176100_1542900662714693_3035535885872610466_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=e7YCEmPGZL4AX-MpQgl&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=2c1bf26f78849e10e1df7026b3857c8c&oe=613F8416)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on August 16, 2021, 12:29:49 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 16, 2021, 11:49:29 AM

Wow Garth Brooks can still sell out a 90K stadium?  That's pretty impressive. 

First time I saw him was at a free show he did outside the Cotton Bowl at Fair Park in Dallas immediately following the TX-OU game in 1990, and I saw him twice in Austin over the next few years.  He always put on a great show.  Loved to play Billy Joel covers back when, probably still does.

His shows are a thing unto themselves, like Jimmy Buffet concerts.  I know plenty of people who don't like country music, and don't particularly love him, who go every time he comes through.  It's a giant party

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 16, 2021, 12:29:59 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 16, 2021, 11:49:29 AM

Wow Garth Brooks can still sell out a 90K stadium?  That's pretty impressive. 

First time I saw him was at a free show he did outside the Cotton Bowl at Fair Park in Dallas immediately following the TX-OU game in 1990, and I saw him twice in Austin over the next few years.  He always put on a great show.  Loved to play Billy Joel covers back when, probably still does.

Frost will be one of those attending the Garth Brooks concert at Memorial Stadium on Saturday. There was a lot of activity putting the final preparation touches for the event in and around the stadium Friday.

"I'm just excited to see the stadium full again," the coach said. "I've never been in my box before. My wife's been in it. I've never been in it. So that's where I'm going to sit."

Favorite Garth song? "I grew up with that stuff. Callin' Baton Rouge. Thunder Rolls is everybody's favorite. Cowboy's Lament, I really liked. That's a good question, by the way. I'll think of another one before we're done."

He did, too. At the very end of his meeting with the media, he added another song to the list: "I'd say 'Every Time That It Rains' is probably my favorite overall."

Frost doesn't know if Garth will talk to the team at all. "When we have concerts in town, sometimes guys come over. Zac Brown has been in my office, playing my little $80 guitar. We'll see if Garth shows up. We met Garth, I think my senior year he came, and talked to the team at practice one day. He's one of the best. Can't wait to see him."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 16, 2021, 12:52:53 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 16, 2021, 12:17:01 PM

Next you’ll tell me that California has more Republicans Texas and Texas has more Democrats than New York or something

we are about to put that to a test

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on August 16, 2021, 12:54:04 PM

https://youtu.be/7mUJjFiu5ew

Garth puts on a hell of a show. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 16, 2021, 01:09:25 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 16, 2021, 12:52:53 PM

we are about to put that to a test

What does that mean?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 16, 2021, 01:26:01 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 16, 2021, 01:09:25 PM

What does that mean?

the recall election

will a dem or a rep win?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 16, 2021, 02:10:48 PM

Much like the plot to every episode of Three's Company, Seinfeld, or Friends, being rendered moot by the existence of mobile phones... so is the song, Calling Baton Rouge. :)

It's still a great one though.

My favorite Garth Brooks song is probably "Much Too Young (To Feel This Damn Old)" off his debut album.  But I love lots of them.  

A worn-out tape of Chris Ledoux
Lonely women, and bad booze
Seem to be the only friends I've left at all

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 16, 2021, 02:24:12 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 16, 2021, 11:41:45 AM

And then they act startled that conservative views even exist, despite the fact that roughly half the country's population votes conservative in every presidential election.

Pertinent quote from William F. Buckley, Jr.  Ca. 1960, I believe:

"Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 16, 2021, 02:33:46 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 16, 2021, 02:24:12 PM

Pertinent quote from William F. Buckley, Jr.  Ca. 1960, I believe:

"Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views."

I miss Buckley

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 16, 2021, 04:33:23 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 16, 2021, 11:41:45 AM

And then they act startled that conservative views even exist, despite the fact that roughly half the country's population votes conservative in every presidential election.

Maybe they act startled to discover there are so many people with views dictating the behavior of others that have nothing to do with them?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 16, 2021, 04:38:51 PM

I think both "sides" want to "dictate to others" how to live.  

It's inherent.  And they rarely listen to the other side seriously, as they are too busy in their mind denigrating what they THOUGHT they heard and posing a response.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 16, 2021, 04:41:20 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 16, 2021, 04:33:23 PM

Maybe they act startled to discover there are so many people with views dictating the behavior of others that have nothing to do with them?

No, that's not it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 16, 2021, 05:31:30 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/tHogLFJ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 16, 2021, 08:08:56 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 16, 2021, 01:26:01 PM

the recall election

will a dem or a rep win?

It'll be interesting. That's a system that is not incumbent-friendly. I saw some analysis that argued that a demo candidate running would alienate the sitting governor and some power brokers, which seems deeply dumb to me in that arrangement. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 16, 2021, 09:03:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 16, 2021, 04:38:51 PM

I think both "sides" want to "dictate to others" how to live. 

It's inherent.  And they rarely listen to the other side seriously, as they are too busy in their mind denigrating what they THOUGHT they heard and posing a response.

How is the gay couple wanting to get married dictating to others how to live?
Or the woman wanting autonomy over her own body?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 16, 2021, 10:40:52 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 16, 2021, 09:03:31 PM

How is the gay couple wanting to get married dictating to others how to live?
Or the woman wanting autonomy over her own body?

The entire regulatory state is a liberal creation.  Laws against smoking, laws limiting the size of soft drinks, "free speech" areas on campus (because on the rest of campus free speech is not allowed), the vast panoply of laws justified as protecting us from ourselves, that's all liberal stuff.
It's hard for someone to see how his side infringes on the other, but very easy for him to see how the other side infringes on him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 16, 2021, 11:03:15 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 16, 2021, 10:40:52 PM

The entire regulatory state is a liberal creation.  Laws against smoking, laws limiting the size of soft drinks, "free speech" areas on campus (because on the rest of campus free speech is not allowed), the vast panoply of laws justified as protecting us from ourselves, that's all liberal stuff.
It's hard for someone to see how his side infringes on the other, but very easy for him to see how the other side infringes on him.

It's weird that you quoted my post, but didn't address anything in it, lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 16, 2021, 11:09:56 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 16, 2021, 11:03:15 PM

It's weird that you quoted my post, but didn't address anything in it, lol.

Weird.  I thought you were asking rhetorical questions.  LOL.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 16, 2021, 11:16:47 PM

The Left is very tolerant, so long as you agree with them on absolutely everything. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 16, 2021, 11:16:50 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 16, 2021, 10:40:52 PM

The entire regulatory state is a liberal creation.  Laws against smoking, laws limiting the size of soft drinks, "free speech" areas on campus (because on the rest of campus free speech is not allowed), the vast panoply of laws justified as protecting us from ourselves, that's all liberal stuff.
It's hard for someone to see how his side infringes on the other, but very easy for him to see how the other side infringes on him.

If the bolded two are large insignias of the "regulatory state," it seems like that term doesn't mean much. 

-The soft drink law was basically a one-off that never went into effect. It was passed with a grace period and then declared illegal. 
-Free speech areas are ... I don't know that one can really call them a product of either side of the spectrum. They're anti-protesting measures, i.e., they limit the places on campus where people can protest (not really a case of the rest of campus not allowing free speech). They're most likely illegal and should be done away with, but the idea that a protest can't disrupt a lecture without consequence dovetails quite well with conservative outlooks on protest. 

Cincy said it well, I think. Folks on both sides infringe in different ways. Sometimes when they do it, they say it's for the sake of "freedom." 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 16, 2021, 11:25:48 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 16, 2021, 11:09:56 PM

Weird.  I thought you were asking rhetorical questions.  LOL.

No, rhetorical questions let them off the hook.  I want answers.  They don't come.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 17, 2021, 03:42:07 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 14, 2021, 01:42:08 AM

wake up, bud.  US citizens are the dangerous enemy now.  The caricature of the turban-wearing Arab with a shoe bomb isn't taking lives today.  Rufus the town fix-it guy, with his 'don't treat on me' flags waving high IS.  WAKE UP!  If you have nothing to hide, then you're not being surveilled.  And if you are, then it's a waste of time and that program needs to be corrected.  The point is, an non-descript American citizen can be just as much of a threat as the guy you're still wary of when getting on a plane with a name you can't pronounce. 

Ok, I feel like I'm being trolled. Nobody can be this crazy/ignorant/dumb. Right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 17, 2021, 03:47:20 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 15, 2021, 02:25:23 PM

Neither party is catering to the prudent citizens of the country.  No news outlet is telling it like it is.  And no one who should be in power seeks it out.  God bless 'Murica.

Probably the most factual/correct thing you've ever written on here. The news media doesn't exist to tell it like it is. It is a sophisticated propaganda machine designed to manufacture consent and turn citizens into obedient consumers.

There aren't two parties, both have been bought and paid for by the same owners and they agree on just about everything. We don't have democracy in this country, we don't have real choice in this country, we have the illusion of choice.

George Carlin was right on the money when he said America is a big country club, and you ain't in it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 17, 2021, 06:18:23 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 17, 2021, 03:47:20 AM

Probably the most factual/correct thing you've ever written on here. The news media doesn't exist to tell it like it is. It is a sophisticated propaganda machine designed to manufacture consent and turn citizens into obedient consumers.

There aren't two parties, both have been bought and paid for by the same owners and they agree on just about everything. We don't have democracy in this country, we don't have real choice in this country, we have the illusion of choice.

George Carlin was right on the money when he said America is a big country club, and you ain't in it.

With the Carlin quote I believe that you have stumbled across the reason that Fro is such a devoted little foot soldier for Biden, Pelosi, et al. It makes him feel like he is part of the group of people that are calling the shots, instead of just a peon. That way he is one of the oppressors, not one of the oppressed. 

Some people are willing to be told what to think and when to think it, in order to improve their perceived lot in life. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 17, 2021, 08:42:35 AM

FORE!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 17, 2021, 09:50:23 AM

Bring your calculator or play barefoot

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on August 17, 2021, 11:15:48 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 16, 2021, 09:03:31 PM

How is the gay couple wanting to get married dictating to others how to live?
Or the woman wanting autonomy over her own body?

First The government should get out of the marriage business plain and simple.

As to a women over her own body, the baby in her womb is not her body, yes inside it, but it is a unique human being with completely separate set of genetics. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 17, 2021, 11:20:09 AM

I like how France does marriage.  You get legally married at the Marie, by the mayor or official, and then IF YOU WISH you get "married" in a church.

The latter is purely a religious ceremony with zero legal impact.  I've attended two of them, they put on quite the show.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 17, 2021, 01:33:49 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 17, 2021, 11:20:09 AM

 they put on quite the show.

Like this place?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 17, 2021, 01:53:33 PM

only needed my toes on one hole today

was a good day, ball striking and scoring

smooth 81

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: RestingB!tchFace on August 17, 2021, 02:15:39 PM

How many of you have your team's College Vault book?  I got the Gophers one after running across one several years back.  Since.....I've bought around fifteen others because of how cool they are.  If you don't know what I am talking about, look them up.  Basically scrapbook histories of each NCAA Football team, with great photos and reprints of old memorabilia like programs and tickets.  All really, really cool.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 17, 2021, 02:39:43 PM

The University of Georgia Football Vault (College Vault) by Loran Smith: new (2007) | GoldenWavesOfBooks (abebooks.com) (https://www.abebooks.com/University-Georgia-Football-Vault-College-Loran/30874373779/bd?cm_mmc=ggl-_-US_Shopp_Trade-_-product_id=COM9780794822965NEW-_-keyword=&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvO2IBhCzARIsALw3ASpqL-b3GxIDiTelgCVtGlt0Rbei7_tMS3W_YvpV2ZqdmcbfMQuzvhUaAktrEALw_wcB)

(https://i.imgur.com/lFLNExe.png)

How 'Bout Them Dawgs? In the University of Georgia Football Vault™, Bulldog radio network announcer Loran Smith explores the prolific 115 year of history of his beloved Dawgs. With exhilarating stories, remarkable images, and memorabilia for UGA's diverse, historic archives, Smith's approach to the Bulldog story demonstrates his deep appreciation of the sports program that has been an integral part of his life for over 40 years. The University of Georgia Football Vault ™ provides fans with their own personal scrapbook bursting with dozens of rarely seen reproduction memorabilia from Georgia's glory days. An 1894 poster advertising of UGA's earliest games, a Georgia-Yale program postcard from Sanford Stadium's 1929 dedicatory game, a crimson-and-black, felt stadium pennant from the 1960's, a sheaf of season tickets from the 1980 National Championship year, and a bumper sticker celebrating the 2002 SEC Championship - all this and much more are waiting to be discovered in the pages of the University of Georgia Football Vault ™. Illustrated; Hardcover

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 17, 2021, 02:42:24 PM

2007?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on August 17, 2021, 03:21:52 PM

Well, 2008 ended with a Capital One Bowl against MSU, so that season deserves its own volume

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 17, 2021, 03:30:27 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 17, 2021, 01:53:33 PM

only needed my toes on one hole today

was a good day, ball striking and scoring

smooth 81

All of this is what she said. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 17, 2021, 03:32:49 PM

Quote from: RestingB!tchFace on August 17, 2021, 02:15:39 PM

How many of you have your team's College Vault book?  I got the Gophers one after running across one several years back.  Since.....I've bought around fifteen others because of how cool they are.  If you don't know what I am talking about, look them up.  Basically scrapbook histories of each NCAA Football team, with great photos and reprints of old memorabilia like programs and tickets.  All really, really cool.

OSU has OSU historian Jack Park, so no need for a poor knock off. 

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51C15FRDY0L._SX363_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Geolion91 on August 17, 2021, 04:13:28 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 16, 2021, 10:40:52 PM

The entire regulatory state is a liberal creation.  Laws against smoking, laws limiting the size of soft drinks, "free speech" areas on campus (because on the rest of campus free speech is not allowed), the vast panoply of laws justified as protecting us from ourselves, that's all liberal stuff.
It's hard for someone to see how his side infringes on the other, but very easy for him to see how the other side infringes on him.

Well, most of the smoking laws exist to protect non-smokers from the effects of smoking.  But otherwise, I agree to the extent that I don't need laws to protect me from myself (others that know me may think differently).  But to abolish those laws, you would also have to find a way to prevent frivolous lawsuits that will inevitably come up because people do not accept liability for their own actions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 17, 2021, 04:49:07 PM

UNL Athletic Director Alberts said Nebraska and other Big Ten schools have submitted questionnaires about how they plan to handle Covid-19 protocols. The conference has yet to bounce back a policy. Earlier in his speech, Alberts said it’s likely that a team being unable to field a team because of Covid cases would be considered a forfeit.

— Alberts said he feels confident about where the football team is in terms of vaccination rates with the season set to start in 11 days. He noted that those within the athletic department are still taking saliva covid tests, saying that he took one two days ago.

“I'm really proud of Scott, really proud of our coaches on  how hard they've worked to get our student athletes vaccinated,” Alberts said. “We're in a really good position today I can’t honestly say that a month ago, but today I feel really, really strong where we are. We’re in good shape.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: RestingB!tchFace on August 17, 2021, 05:08:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 17, 2021, 02:39:43 PM

The University of Georgia Football Vault (College Vault) by Loran Smith: new (2007) | GoldenWavesOfBooks (abebooks.com) (https://www.abebooks.com/University-Georgia-Football-Vault-College-Loran/30874373779/bd?cm_mmc=ggl-_-US_Shopp_Trade-_-product_id=COM9780794822965NEW-_-keyword=&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvO2IBhCzARIsALw3ASpqL-b3GxIDiTelgCVtGlt0Rbei7_tMS3W_YvpV2ZqdmcbfMQuzvhUaAktrEALw_wcB)

(https://i.imgur.com/lFLNExe.png)

How 'Bout Them Dawgs? In the University of Georgia Football Vault™, Bulldog radio network announcer Loran Smith explores the prolific 115 year of history of his beloved Dawgs. With exhilarating stories, remarkable images, and memorabilia for UGA's diverse, historic archives, Smith's approach to the Bulldog story demonstrates his deep appreciation of the sports program that has been an integral part of his life for over 40 years. The University of Georgia Football Vault ™ provides fans with their own personal scrapbook bursting with dozens of rarely seen reproduction memorabilia from Georgia's glory days. An 1894 poster advertising of UGA's earliest games, a Georgia-Yale program postcard from Sanford Stadium's 1929 dedicatory game, a crimson-and-black, felt stadium pennant from the 1960's, a sheaf of season tickets from the 1980 National Championship year, and a bumper sticker celebrating the 2002 SEC Championship - all this and much more are waiting to be discovered in the pages of the University of Georgia Football Vault ™. Illustrated; Hardcover

I have this one.  $77 is excessive though.  Most can be found on ebay for less than $20.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 17, 2021, 05:57:26 PM

RBF - do you have Wisconsin? Is it worth getting?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 17, 2021, 07:09:44 PM

Quote from: Geolion91 on August 17, 2021, 04:13:28 PM

Well, most of the smoking laws exist to protect non-smokers from the effects of smoking.  But otherwise, I agree to the extent that I don't need laws to protect me from myself (others that know me may think differently).  But to abolish those laws, you would also have to find a way to prevent frivolous lawsuits that will inevitably come up because people do not accept liability for their own actions.

Yeah, I wasn't commenting on the advisability of those laws or the motivations behind them.  I was just attempting to rebut OAM's assertion that only conservatives try to control the behavior of others.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 17, 2021, 07:12:15 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 17, 2021, 03:42:07 AM

Ok, I feel like I'm being trolled. Nobody can be this crazy/ignorant/dumb. Right?

You're right.  I'm just making shit up.  Not supported by the facts at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 17, 2021, 07:13:19 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on August 17, 2021, 06:18:23 AM

With the Carlin quote I believe that you have stumbled across the reason that Fro is such a devoted little foot soldier for Biden, Pelosi, et al. It makes him feel like he is part of the group of people that are calling the shots, instead of just a peon. That way he is one of the oppressors, not one of the oppressed.

Some people are willing to be told what to think and when to think it, in order to improve their perceived lot in life.

For the umpteenth time, I'm sorry that I'm not the far-left caricature that you imagine me to be.  Get over yourself and move the fuck on.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 17, 2021, 07:20:54 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 17, 2021, 03:42:07 AM

Ok, I feel like I'm being trolled. Nobody can be this crazy/ignorant/dumb. Right?

BTW, were you not aware of the DHS report back in 2009 in the Tea Party days that basically labeled anyone who liked small government as potential domestic terrorist? 

One of my fellow bloggers at The Liberty Papers broke the story and got TONS of activity for our site that day... A site that normally cost about $0.50 per day in hosting fees hit about $50 in two days...

http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2009/04/12/homeland-security-document-targets-most-conservatives-and-libertarians-in-the-country/

This stuff didn't just start after Jan 6...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 17, 2021, 07:30:20 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 17, 2021, 07:20:54 PM

BTW, were you not aware of the DHS report back in 2009 in the Tea Party days that basically labeled anyone who liked small government as potential domestic terrorist?

One of my fellow bloggers at The Liberty Papers broke the story and got TONS of activity for our site that day... A site that normally cost about $0.50 per day in hosting fees hit about $50 in two days...

http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2009/04/12/homeland-security-document-targets-most-conservatives-and-libertarians-in-the-country/

This stuff didn't just start after Jan 6...

Holy crap I'm a domestic terrorist now?  I mean, I've been called a lot of things, but...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 17, 2021, 07:35:09 PM

I'm not sure there is a group not monitored by someone in the government. Black people who identified (https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/10/06/the-fbi-has-identified-a-new-domestic-terrorist-threat-and-its-black-identity-extremists/) as being black were being watched by the FBI as recently as 2020.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 17, 2021, 07:38:32 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 17, 2021, 07:35:09 PM

I'm not sure there is a group not monitored by someone in the government. Black people who identified (https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/10/06/the-fbi-has-identified-a-new-domestic-terrorist-threat-and-its-black-identity-extremists/) as being black were being watched by the FBI as recently as 2020.

I have no idea what that even means, but I'll take your word for it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 17, 2021, 07:46:25 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 17, 2021, 07:13:19 PM

For the umpteenth time, I'm sorry that I'm not the far-left caricature that you imagine me to be.  Get over yourself and move the fuck on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6_h9mLW9mw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 17, 2021, 07:54:21 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 17, 2021, 07:38:32 PM

I have no idea what that even means, but I'll take your word for it.

I'm not going to ask any stoopid questions

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 17, 2021, 08:10:19 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 17, 2021, 07:38:32 PM

I have no idea what that even means, but I'll take your word for it.

As opposed to White people who "identify" as being Black? 



(https://www.economist.com/img/b/595/335/90/sites/default/files/images/print-edition/20150620_USP001_0.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 17, 2021, 09:16:45 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on August 17, 2021, 07:46:25 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6_h9mLW9mw

😂😂😂😂.  Priceless 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on August 17, 2021, 09:57:17 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 17, 2021, 07:35:09 PM

I'm not sure there is a group not monitored by someone in the government. Black people who identified (https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/10/06/the-fbi-has-identified-a-new-domestic-terrorist-threat-and-its-black-identity-extremists/) as being black were being watched by the FBI as recently as 2020.

Quote

I have no idea what that even means, but I'll take your word for it.

Someone mentioned George Carlin up thread.  This reminded me of his bit...

"Now listen, as long as we’re discussing minorities, I’d like to mention something about language.

There are a couple of terms being used a lot these days by guilty white liberals. First one is “happens to be”... “He happens to be black. I have a friend who happens to be black.” Like it’s a fucking accident you know?

Happens to be black?
“Yes, he happens to be black.”
Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he had two black parents?
“Oh yes, yes he did. Yes, that’s right.” 
Right, and they fucked?
“Oh indeed they did... indeed they did.”

So where does the surprise part come in? I should think it would be more unusual if he just happened to be Scandinavian!

And the other term is “openly.” “Openly gay.” They say “he’s openly gay.” But that’s the only minority they use that for. You know, you wouldn’t say someone was “openly black.” ... well maybe James Brown... or Louis Farrakhan; Louis Farrakhan is openly black. Colin Powell is not openly black, Colin Powell is openly white; he just happens to be black."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 17, 2021, 10:10:45 PM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on August 17, 2021, 09:57:17 PM

Someone mentioned George Carlin up thread.  This reminded me of his bit...

"Now listen, as long as we’re discussing minorities, I’d like to mention something about language.

There are a couple of terms being used a lot these days by guilty white liberals. First one is “happens to be”... “He happens to be black. I have a friend who happens to be black.” Like it’s a fucking accident you know?

Happens to be black?
“Yes, he happens to be black.”
Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he had two black parents?
“Oh yes, yes he did. Yes, that’s right.”
Right, and they fucked?
“Oh indeed they did... indeed they did.”

So where does the surprise part come in? I should think it would be more unusual if he just happened to be Scandinavian!

And the other term is “openly.” “Openly gay.” They say “he’s openly gay.” But that’s the only minority they use that for. You know, you wouldn’t say someone was “openly black.” ... well maybe James Brown... or Louis Farrakhan; Louis Farrakhan is openly black. Colin Powell is not openly black, Colin Powell is openly white; he just happens to be black."

😂😂. Great stuff

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 17, 2021, 10:41:03 PM

I'm amazed that there are people who like George Carlin being the same people whose mouths he'd shit in.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 17, 2021, 11:52:52 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 17, 2021, 10:41:03 PM

I'm amazed that there are people who like George Carlin being the same people whose mouths he'd shit in.

Well then you must be his biggest fan.


Save the planet, we don’t even know how to take care of ourselves yet. I’m tired of this shit. I’m tired of f-ing Earth Day. I’m tired of these self-righteous environmentalists, these white, bourgeois liberals who think the only thing wrong with this country is that there aren’t enough bicycle paths. People trying to make the world safe for Volvos. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 18, 2021, 08:12:43 AM

After two days of incessant rain, today looks to be very nice and sunny, yay.  We have reservations at what some say is the finest restaurant in the city tonight, we'll see, pre fixe menu.  

I had to get an e check on the car yesterday, it was different from how they did it in Cincy, didn't have to get out of the car and worry about someone mangling my clutch.

There is a waiver if you're over 65 and drive less than 5,000 miles a year, but your car has to be 10+ years old, which would be the type to have issues.  $25.

My book sales maxed at ten in one day, and now I think everyone who wanted one bought it.  I don't write to make money of course which is a good thing.   My wife said she finished it yesterday and thought it was moving, which is good, she doesn't read as well in English obviously.  There must be some really good authors extant who can't find and agent or publisher willing to do anything serious, I don't know how folks get found.  (I don't think I'm one of them.)  I know Grisham's first book languished until "The Firm" took off.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 18, 2021, 08:30:21 AM

My notion is we fell into a rut with dining out, which we do a couple times a week.  There are plenty of nice places in walking distance that are easy to get to and we enjoy them, but I'm interested in trying places further afield (tonight's is a 12 minute drive they say).  There are more and more places opening up in the neighborhood and places we have yet to try also.

Our travel expenses are way down for obvious reasons, so I'm thinking of spending some of that dining out.  We're headed up into the mountains next month for three nights at a nice place (on  line).  Then we'll have our first air travel in October and December, at least that is planned anyway.  Have baseball Nov and Jan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 18, 2021, 09:00:13 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on August 17, 2021, 08:10:19 PM

As opposed to White people who "identify" as being Black?



(https://www.economist.com/img/b/595/335/90/sites/default/files/images/print-edition/20150620_USP001_0.jpg)

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/YKlrFKq_FESQTxhOGjvFut8hjDc=/0x48:640x528/1200x800/filters:focal(0x48:640x528)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/46994672/Shaun_20King.0.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 18, 2021, 09:28:49 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 17, 2021, 07:12:15 PM

You're right.  I'm just making shit up.  Not supported by the facts at all.

Yes, you are making shit up. What are these facts you speak of? Hope you're not speaking of plots like the "kidnapping of the cunty Michigan governor" which amounts to basically nothing but a plot designed, instigated, & completely funded by the FBI itself. They are just taking their same playbook from the "war on terror" - in which they recruited, funded, and radicalized a bunch of losers- set all these plots up and then swooped in arrested them and declared they were "tough on crime and fighting terror!" Uhhhh, no they weren't. They were setting up their own plots & busting them trying to make themselves look useful. They are not useful. FBI should be busted up into a million pieces. 

The biggest danger to this country are all it's f#kn dipshit elected leaders, propagandistic media, and maybe even more dangerous to it is the bloated unelected bureaucracy which consists of the "intelligence" agencies and military industrial complex.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 18, 2021, 09:33:08 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 17, 2021, 07:13:19 PM

For the umpteenth time, I'm sorry that I'm not the far-left caricature that you imagine me to be.  Get over yourself and move the fuck on.

Of course you're not a lefty. And neither is freaking Joe Biden or Nancy Pelosi. They are corporatist centrist Dems. The term liberal has lost all meaning. All of our language has it seems like.

You? You're what I'd call a mindless, thoughtless shitlib.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 18, 2021, 09:33:39 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 17, 2021, 07:20:54 PM

BTW, were you not aware of the DHS report back in 2009 in the Tea Party days that basically labeled anyone who liked small government as potential domestic terrorist?

One of my fellow bloggers at The Liberty Papers broke the story and got TONS of activity for our site that day... A site that normally cost about $0.50 per day in hosting fees hit about $50 in two days...

http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2009/04/12/homeland-security-document-targets-most-conservatives-and-libertarians-in-the-country/

This stuff didn't just start after Jan 6...

Was not aware- and that is terrifying. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 18, 2021, 09:34:28 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 17, 2021, 07:35:09 PM

I'm not sure there is a group not monitored by someone in the government. Black people who identified (https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/10/06/the-fbi-has-identified-a-new-domestic-terrorist-threat-and-its-black-identity-extremists/) as being black were being watched by the FBI as recently as 2020.

What? Wait. What? Re-read this sentence.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 18, 2021, 09:34:49 AM

I like it that Mdot21 doesn't hold back

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 18, 2021, 09:36:04 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 17, 2021, 10:41:03 PM

I'm amazed that there are people who like George Carlin being the same people whose mouths he'd shit in.

Actually, he'd shit in the mouth of someone like you. And if you don't understand that or why- well let's just say it wouldn't shock me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 18, 2021, 09:36:34 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 18, 2021, 09:34:28 AM

What? Wait. What? Re-read this sentence.

Yes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 18, 2021, 09:38:30 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/gqOiXWL.jpg)

Margaritavile tower here downtown, I might need to go when they complete it was waste away a bit.  It has time shares and condos in it apparently.

Images: Is Margaritaville tower a surprisingly fine addition to Atlanta skyline? | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/margaritaville-jimmy-buffett-downtown-centennial-olympic-park)

We might wonder that way when the weather gets nicer, it's probably a 3-4 mile walk, or hop on the subway.

The streetcar thing of course has been an utter failure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 18, 2021, 09:39:38 AM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on August 17, 2021, 09:57:17 PM

Someone mentioned George Carlin up thread.  This reminded me of his bit...

"Now listen, as long as we’re discussing minorities, I’d like to mention something about language.

There are a couple of terms being used a lot these days by guilty white liberals. First one is “happens to be”... “He happens to be black. I have a friend who happens to be black.” Like it’s a fucking accident you know?

Happens to be black?
“Yes, he happens to be black.”
Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he had two black parents?
“Oh yes, yes he did. Yes, that’s right.”
Right, and they fucked?
“Oh indeed they did... indeed they did.”

So where does the surprise part come in? I should think it would be more unusual if he just happened to be Scandinavian!

And the other term is “openly.” “Openly gay.” They say “he’s openly gay.” But that’s the only minority they use that for. You know, you wouldn’t say someone was “openly black.” ... well maybe James Brown... or Louis Farrakhan; Louis Farrakhan is openly black. Colin Powell is not openly black, Colin Powell is openly white; he just happens to be black."

Carlin was more than a comedian. Dude was a prophet. I love Dave Chapelle, Richard Pryor, and Bill Burr- but for me- Carlin is the Tom Brady/Michael Jordan of comedians.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 18, 2021, 09:40:12 AM

I have met, on line, conservatives who believe Fox News is very left wing, and some liberals who think MSNBC is right wing.  It's really a matter of one's own positioning.

Some folks think anyone who believes there is a place for welfare etc. is a communist, and some other who think anyone who has reservations about affirmative action is a white nationalist fascist.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 18, 2021, 10:14:30 AM

Yeah, I saw some woke Whites who proclaimed that "racists always say that they have Black friends." 

Um, no... they'd probably be offended at the mere accusation, actually. Unless of course this "racist" also "happened to be Black." At which point they would only have Black friends. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 18, 2021, 10:59:58 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 18, 2021, 09:40:12 AM

I have met, on line, conservatives who believe Fox News is very left wing, and some liberals who think MSNBC is right wing.  It's really a matter of one's own positioning.

Some folks think anyone who believes there is a place for welfare etc. is a communist, and some other who think anyone who has reservations about affirmative action is a white nationalist fascist.

I think some of this speaks to a burning desire to be mad very often. Like, even when a news outlet sort of speaks to your extremity, it won’t always. (Weirdly, sports is the great test case for all this)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 18, 2021, 11:06:41 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 18, 2021, 10:59:58 AM

I think some of this speaks to a burning desire to be mad very often. Like, even when a news outlet sort of speaks to your extremity, it won’t always. (Weirdly, sports is the great test case for all this)

Oh we're definitely living in the midst of an Outrage Culture.

I find it infuriating!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 18, 2021, 12:36:47 PM

In my view, both parties benefit from keeping us "incensed", it means we're more likely to donate time and money to their cause and vote.  A lot of issue could be resolved with some compromise, but neither party really wants to do that, so they keep as many hot buttons alive as possible to get "support", their worst nightmare is an ambivalent electorate, folks reasonably content.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 18, 2021, 12:51:05 PM

A lot easier to control people through fear and anger than peace and love.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 18, 2021, 01:26:26 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 18, 2021, 12:51:05 PM

A lot easier to control people through fear and anger than peace and love.

Yup.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 18, 2021, 01:52:02 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 18, 2021, 12:36:47 PM

In my view, both parties benefit from keeping us "incensed", it means we're more likely to donate time and money to their cause and vote.  A lot of issue could be resolved with some compromise, but neither party really wants to do that, so they keep as many hot buttons alive as possible to get "support", their worst nightmare is an ambivalent electorate, folks reasonably content.

It's not the parties.  The parties are neutered.  If the parties were that strong, Bernie Sanders--a registered Socialist--would not have even been under consideration by the Democrats, and Donald Trump--who had spent most of his life as a registered Democrat--would not have been able to take over the Republican Party as he did.
A big part of the problem is primaries.  Primaries mostly attract the extremists--the true-blue-fanatics--of each party.  Back in the days when elders met in smoke-filled rooms to pick the nominees, you didn't get candidates like those two.
Yet another Progressive Era reform that we would be better off without.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 18, 2021, 01:53:12 PM

I think the political parties want as many of us incensed as possible.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 18, 2021, 01:59:55 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 18, 2021, 01:52:02 PM

It's not the parties.  The parties are neutered.  If the parties were that strong, Bernie Sanders--a registered Socialist--would not have even been under consideration by the Democrats, and Donald Trump--who had spent most of his life as a registered Democrat--would not have been able to take over the Republican Party as he did.
A big part of the problem is primaries.  Primaries mostly attract the extremists--the true-blue-fanatics--of each party.  Back in the days when elders met in smoke-filled rooms to pick the nominees, you didn't get candidates like those two.
Yet another Progressive Era reform that we would be better off without.

The parties may be diminished with respect to their power at their peaks, but that doesn't change the fact that their objective is to incite, to foment, to divide.

And their various media partners' objective is also to elicit strong responses to generate eyeballs/clicks, so they are 100% aligned in being useful tools for the parties to accomplish their objectives.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 18, 2021, 02:03:01 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 18, 2021, 01:59:55 PM

The parties may be diminished with respect to their power at their peaks, but that doesn't change the fact that their objective is to incite, to foment, to divide.

And their various media partners' objective is also to elicit strong responses to generate eyeballs/clicks, so they are 100% aligned in being useful tools for the parties to accomplish their objectives.

I don't disagree with that.  They function basically as money-raisers and little else.  If Chairman Mao or Adolf Hitler is the candidate chosen by the extremists in their base, they'll raise money for him by generating anger about what the other party is going.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 18, 2021, 02:11:13 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 18, 2021, 02:03:01 PM

I don't disagree with that.  They function basically as money-raisers and little else.  If Chairman Mao or Adolf Hitler is the candidate chosen by the extremists in their base, they'll raise money for him by generating anger about what the other party is going.

(https://i.imgur.com/G7VNECu.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 18, 2021, 02:33:52 PM

^^^^^^

I use that line all the time.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 18, 2021, 02:54:10 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 18, 2021, 12:51:05 PM

A lot easier to control people through fear and anger than peace and love.

I dunno those '60s communes  fell apart for a good reason

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: RestingB!tchFace on August 18, 2021, 02:56:35 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 17, 2021, 05:57:26 PM

RBF - do you have Wisconsin? Is it worth getting?

I don't have that one yet, but I plan to.  Honestly....a quick check on ebay shows that you can get these for around $10 shipped.  They are very cool, imo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 18, 2021, 03:00:49 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 18, 2021, 02:54:10 PM

I dunno those '60s communes  fell apart for a good reason

"In 1968, in San Francisco, I came across a curious footnote to the psychedelic movement. At the Haight-Ashbury Free Clinic there were doctors who were treating diseases no living doctor had ever encountered before, diseases that had disappeared so long ago they had never even picked up Latin names, diseases such as the mange, the grunge, the itch, the twitch, the thrush, the scroff, the rot. And how was it that they had returned? It had to do with the fact that thousands of young men and women had migrated to San Francisco to live communally in what I think history will record as one of the most extraordinary religious experiments of all time.

"The hippies, as they became known, sought nothing less than to sweep aside all codes and restraints of the past and start out from zero. At one point Ken Kesey organized a pilgrimage to Stonehenge with the idea of returning to Anglo-Saxon civilization’s point zero, which he figured was Stonehenge, and heading out all over again to do it better. Among the codes and restraints that people in the communes swept aside—quite purposely—were those that said you shouldn’t use other people’s toothbrushes or sleep on other people’s mattresses without changing the sheets or, as was more likely, without using any sheets at hall or that you and five other people shouldn’t drink from the same bottle of Shasta or take tokes from the same cigarette. And now, in 1968, they were relearning . . . the laws of hygiene . . . by getting the mange, the grunge, the scroff, the rot."

~ Tom Wolfe

“The Great Relearning,”

The American Spectator, Dec 1987

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 18, 2021, 07:36:08 PM

Lots of great talent to recruit in Texas!


https://www.whiskeyriff.com/2021/02/11/texas-mom-delivers-textbook-tackle-on-peeping-tom-caught-looking-through-her-daughters-window/?fbclid=IwAR3lHurG96yBuO3aVcBXdqt3nQ6np_YzAvONUoIvZ1zb8SVNdxk3pDxm-pE

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 18, 2021, 07:42:46 PM

That was pretty good form

I wouldnt want to miss with her and Id damn sure stay away from her daughter's window

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 18, 2021, 10:55:59 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 18, 2021, 09:36:04 AM

Actually, he'd shit in the mouth of someone like you. And if you don't understand that or why- well let's just say it wouldn't shock me.

(https://i.imgur.com/L3L0q3M.png)

Any you can't say "someone like you" to me....you don't know me.  All you think you know is a cartoonish version of someone I'm not.  And that will never change.
.
And for the rest of you, look at the "FYI" section above.  I'm still waiting on the number of deaths that are acceptable to slow down the economy.  No one seems brave enough to give me one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 18, 2021, 11:06:10 PM

I hate it when its late at night and OAM comes out to play.

We have enjoyed this whole day please dont start your usual crap

just put a smile on your face and say howdy neighbor hows it going

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Thumper on August 19, 2021, 12:26:31 AM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 18, 2021, 03:00:49 PM

"In 1968, in San Francisco, I came across a curious footnote to the psychedelic movement. At the Haight-Ashbury Free Clinic there were doctors who were treating diseases no living doctor had ever encountered before, diseases that had disappeared so long ago they had never even picked up Latin names, diseases such as the mange, the grunge, the itch, the twitch, the thrush, the scroff, the rot. And how was it that they had returned? It had to do with the fact that thousands of young men and women had migrated to San Francisco to live communally in what I think history will record as one of the most extraordinary religious experiments of all time.

"The hippies, as they became known, sought nothing less than to sweep aside all codes and restraints of the past and start out from zero. At one point Ken Kesey organized a pilgrimage to Stonehenge with the idea of returning to Anglo-Saxon civilization’s point zero, which he figured was Stonehenge, and heading out all over again to do it better. Among the codes and restraints that people in the communes swept aside—quite purposely—were those that said you shouldn’t use other people’s toothbrushes or sleep on other people’s mattresses without changing the sheets or, as was more likely, without using any sheets at hall or that you and five other people shouldn’t drink from the same bottle of Shasta or take tokes from the same cigarette. And now, in 1968, they were relearning . . . the laws of hygiene . . . by getting the mange, the grunge, the scroff, the rot."

~ Tom Wolfe

“The Great Relearning,”

The American Spectator, Dec 1987

As a youngster, I read Tom Wolfe's account of Ken Kesey and his Merry Tricksters "The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test".  I admired the idealism attributed to the hippies but the illusion faded pretty quickly as I met many of them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2021, 12:38:01 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 18, 2021, 11:06:10 PM

I hate it when its late at night and OAM comes out to play.

We have enjoyed this whole day please dont start your usual crap

just put a smile on your face and say howdy neighbor hows it going

You're right, I should bend over and take it.  No thanks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 19, 2021, 01:05:09 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2021, 12:38:01 AM

You're right, I should bend over and take it.  No thanks.

nope just be friendly 

take that chip off your shoulder 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 19, 2021, 01:06:01 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2021, 12:38:01 AM

You're right, I should bend over and take it.  No thanks.

Since when did you become a top? 


(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/713+UNN755L._AC_SS450_.jpg)


Sorry fellas, he just left that one hanging over the plate. Resistance was futile. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2021, 08:43:47 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 19, 2021, 01:05:09 AM

nope just be friendly

take that chip off your shoulder

I'll mirror friendly when I see it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 19, 2021, 09:06:26 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 18, 2021, 07:36:08 PM

Lots of great talent to recruit in Texas!


https://www.whiskeyriff.com/2021/02/11/texas-mom-delivers-textbook-tackle-on-peeping-tom-caught-looking-through-her-daughters-window/?fbclid=IwAR3lHurG96yBuO3aVcBXdqt3nQ6np_YzAvONUoIvZ1zb8SVNdxk3pDxm-pE

Pretty good tackle. However, she needs to keep her head in front and drive with the legs. I'm sure they can work on that in fall camp. :93:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 19, 2021, 09:10:06 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 18, 2021, 07:42:46 PM

That was pretty good form

I wouldnt want to miss with her and Id damn sure stay away from her daughter's window

What about her window?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 19, 2021, 09:19:14 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/ErQIOog.png) 
 (https://i.imgur.com/UQiwKOb.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 19, 2021, 10:59:42 AM

https://inequality.org/great-divide/global-billionaire-pandemic-wealth-surges/

The world's billionaires have seen their combined wealth increase by $5.5 trillion during the COVID pandemic (March 2020-July 2021) from roughly $8 trillion up to $13.5 trillion, drawing on data from Forbes. This is actually probably an undercounting, as there are more billionaires out there that Forbes doesn't even know about.

Total wealth by billionaires has increased more in the past 17 months than it has in the previous FIFTEEN YEARS COMBINED. This is alarming to say the least. Income inequality and the wealth gap in this country has never been higher. Ever. This is a very bad thing. For everyone. Even the mega wealthy. Why? This will just lead to collapse of society and maybe even government one day. There will be a reckoning and realignment in this country. It's bound to happen if we continue on this pace. This kind of inequality is not sustainable and it's not what America was about in the 40's, 50's, and 60's when it was truly the greatest nation on earth. Hasn't been for awhile if you ask me.

The rich use every loophole provided them to avoid paying their full tax rate, and the insanely wealthy like Bezos don't even pay any tax because well they just get the big banks to borrow them hundreds of millions of dollars a clip to fund their larger than life lifestyles- all secured against their shares of stock- and oh yeah by the way they get INSANE interest rates below 1%- sometimes even as low as .02%- that they wouldn't give anybody else. Anybody that actually needs a loan- bank would tell them to pound sand or ask for their 1st born and charge them 30% interest. Almost a quarter- 22.5% of the big banks total loan books are now these types of 0% interest loans to ultra-wealthy. Up from 16% just 4 years ago. JP Morgan & Citi are now lending more money to a small group of ultra-high networth clients than they are to their tens of millions of credit card customers. 10 years ago JP Morgan was lending 5x as much to it's credit card customers as it did to ultra-high networth private clients.

Why do they do it? Big banks scratch people like Bezos backs and then he in turn scratches their backs by steering all their corporate banking business. This is all filthy and disgusting and should be illegal. The US taxpayer bailed out big banks for this crap? Man.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 19, 2021, 11:04:24 AM

the world's billionaires could do much more good for humanity in my opinion

but, I certainly haven't walked a mile in their moccasins  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2021, 11:21:32 AM

Some of them make an earnest effort, I've given it a trifle of thought and believe it's tough to find worthy causes, it's a full time job.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 19, 2021, 11:23:37 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 19, 2021, 10:59:42 AM

https://inequality.org/great-divide/global-billionaire-pandemic-wealth-surges/

The world's billionaires have seen their combined wealth increase by $5.5 trillion during the COVID pandemic (March 2020-July 2021) from roughly $8 trillion up to $13.5 trillion, drawing on data from Forbes. This is actually probably an undercounting, as there are more billionaires out there that Forbes doesn't even know about.

and just how does this affect you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 19, 2021, 11:32:11 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 19, 2021, 11:23:37 AM

and just how does this affect you

this affects everyone. in nothing but bad ways.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2021, 11:37:19 AM

My definition of wealthy is having enough money to need no income.  As we tax income (except at death), that means a wealthy person can easily avoid taxes.

And if they want some income, they can buy municipal bonds, and as noted, never sell any assets.  I don't know the interest rate they would pay on say stocks, right now leveraging stocks does have a low rate for everyone.  And they can also donate appreciated assets, I've done that myself, to offset some taxable income.

They will pay property taxes and sales taxes of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 19, 2021, 11:39:54 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 19, 2021, 11:21:32 AM

Some of them make an earnest effort, I've given it a trifle of thought and believe it's tough to find worthy causes, it's a full time job.

most of them have a staff for this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2021, 11:42:25 AM

I'm sure they have staff for everything onerous, but I find finding good charitable causes to be somewhat problematic, personally, obviously with a far far smaller charitable fund.  I've been donating to the park, the botanical garden, the symphony, and the homeless shelter, Atlanta Mission.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 19, 2021, 11:44:03 AM

sorry, this caused me to LOL

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/s960x960/239153449_10225956448360630_5903752607188694287_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=v-XkNHIbz14AX-cr7ob&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=15a36fa9c002cc2529fe25fe3864c59e&oe=61452CEE)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 19, 2021, 12:37:13 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 19, 2021, 11:44:03 AM

sorry, this caused me to LOL

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/s960x960/239153449_10225956448360630_5903752607188694287_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=v-XkNHIbz14AX-cr7ob&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=15a36fa9c002cc2529fe25fe3864c59e&oe=61452CEE)

Did you see the videos of Taliban in the opulent palaces the US backed warlords that fled? Taj Mahal looking estates owned by corrupt warlords all paid for via US taxpayer. Crazy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 19, 2021, 12:44:24 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 19, 2021, 11:32:11 AM

this affects everyone. in nothing but bad ways.

not sure how my neighbor becoming a millionaire affects me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 19, 2021, 01:02:21 PM

with a "B"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 19, 2021, 01:16:52 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 19, 2021, 12:44:24 PM

not sure how my neighbor becoming a millionaire affects me

What? Do you even read, bro? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 19, 2021, 01:42:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 19, 2021, 11:37:19 AM

My definition of wealthy is having enough money to need no income.  As we tax income (except at death), that means a wealthy person can easily avoid taxes.

And if they want some income, they can buy municipal bonds, and as noted, never sell any assets.  I don't know the interest rate they would pay on say stocks, right now leveraging stocks does have a low rate for everyone.  And they can also donate appreciated assets, I've done that myself, to offset some taxable income.

They will pay property taxes and sales taxes of course.

Wealth should be taxed before income. We have it all backwards here. I will always be against working class people who break their backs being taxed at higher percentages of their income (which is all the wealth they have for many) than the ultra wealthy.

This country had no income tax for most of its history. Very rarely were income taxes issued and they were all temporary measures which expired. Not until what? 1913 with the formation of the federal reserve and the ratification of the 16th amendment.

They don’t show income because they don’t want to pay tax. And they are gaming the banking system to avoid paying tax. And the banks- which the US taxpayer has bailed out again and again- is complicit in these schemes and scams.

They will pay property tax and sales tax- because they have to pay those. There is no way for them to game the system and avoid it- and those are local & state level taxes- not federal taxes- so they are really a moot point in regards to this discussion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 19, 2021, 02:07:09 PM

Quote from: Thumper on August 19, 2021, 12:26:31 AM

As a youngster, I read Tom Wolfe's account of Ken Kesey and his Merry Tricksters "The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test".  I admired the idealism attributed to the hippies but the illusion faded pretty quickly as I met many of them.

The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test and The Pump House Gang were the books to carry around my high school for those who held up Ho and Che as their exemplars.  I don't know if they actually read them, but those were two of the books they carried.
The Books They Carried.  Could be a reflection on my HS graduating class.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 19, 2021, 02:17:16 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 19, 2021, 01:16:52 PM

What? Do you even read, bro?

I try to avoid it whenever possible

It gives me silly ideas like theres only so much wealth available to man and the rich people are hoarding it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2021, 02:56:40 PM

Billionaires don't need to give to charities, simply just pay their fair share in taxes.  But being a philathropist is cheaper and it's good publicity.  

I wouldn't mind if they didn't donate a dime to charity, it's their money.  I just want the money owed to us.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 19, 2021, 03:26:19 PM

I'd rather have anyone (billionaire or poor folks like us) give of their free will, than be forced to give up $$$.

government taxation is not good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 19, 2021, 03:51:55 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2021, 02:56:40 PM

Billionaires don't need to give to charities, simply just pay their fair share in taxes.  But being a philathropist is cheaper and it's good publicity. 

I wouldn't mind if they didn't donate a dime to charity, it's their money.  I just want the money owed to us.

What is their "fair share"?

You do realize that they are paying their taxes according to the tax laws as written. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 19, 2021, 03:58:49 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 19, 2021, 01:42:27 PM

Wealth should be taxed before income. We have it all backwards here. I will always be against working class people who break their backs being taxed at higher percentages of their income (which is all the wealth they have for many) than the ultra wealthy.

This country had no income tax for most of its history. Very rarely were income taxes issued and they were all temporary measures which expired. Not until what? 1913 with the formation of the federal reserve and the ratification of the 16th amendment.

They don’t show income because they don’t want to pay tax. And they are gaming the banking system to avoid paying tax. And the banks- which the US taxpayer has bailed out again and again- is complicit in these schemes and scams.

They will pay property tax and sales tax- because they have to pay those. There is no way for them to game the system and avoid it- and those are local & state level taxes- not federal taxes- so they are really a moot point in regards to this discussion.

I will disagree with this idea. Taxing wealth is essentially confiscation of wealth. 

I would propose that the income tax is eliminated and we implement a user or sales tax. While the ultra rich can essentially hide their income, it is pretty easy and straight forward to tax purchases. And being as they most likely purchase bigger and more expensive items, they would be paying the larger share of the tax.

Also, taxing income discourages the accumulation of wealth. What's the old saying, if you want less of something, tax it? Remove the income tax and allow people to make as much as they want, tax free. Only tax them on what they spend. 

This would have another major benefit. We could all but eliminate the IRS. The need for all of the IRS agents would not exist. The only people collecting taxes would be those that sold a good or service. The tax would be how much did you sell? Multiply that by whatever percent that you collect from the buyer and send it to the government. (I know it would be more complicated than that, but you get the idea.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 19, 2021, 04:06:47 PM

I like the idea of a sales tax

then we have some control over how much tax we pay

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2021, 04:20:55 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 19, 2021, 03:51:55 PM

What is their "fair share"?

You do realize that they are paying their taxes according to the tax laws as written.

How about the same as us or a little more?  Let's start there.  It's not hard.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2021, 04:21:35 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 19, 2021, 03:26:19 PM

I'd rather have anyone (billionaire or poor folks like us) give of their free will, than be forced to give up $$$.

government taxation is not good  necessary

There, fixed it for ya.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 19, 2021, 04:23:06 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2021, 04:20:55 PM

How about the same as us or a little more?  Let's start there.  It's not hard.

The top 10% of income earners pay over 70% of the income taxes

just how much do you want them to pay

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2021, 04:23:28 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 19, 2021, 03:58:49 PM

I will disagree with this idea. Taxing wealth is essentially confiscation of wealth.

I would propose that the income tax is eliminated and we implement a user or sales tax. While the ultra rich can essentially hide their income, it is pretty easy and straight forward to tax purchases. And being as they most likely purchase bigger and more expensive items, they would be paying the larger share of the tax.

Also, taxing income discourages the accumulation of wealth. What's the old saying, if you want less of something, tax it? Remove the income tax and allow people to make as much as they want, tax free. Only tax them on what they spend.

This would have another major benefit. We could all but eliminate the IRS. The need for all of the IRS agents would not exist. The only people collecting taxes would be those that sold a good or service. The tax would be how much did you sell? Multiply that by whatever percent that you collect from the buyer and send it to the government. (I know it would be more complicated than that, but you get the idea.)

Tire and suspension companies would love this plan.  Roads are dumb.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2021, 04:24:11 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 19, 2021, 04:23:06 PM

The top 10% of income earners pay over 70% of the income taxes

just how much do you want them to pay

I want the ones who pay very little to pay an average amount.  Stop going off on tangents.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 19, 2021, 04:27:28 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2021, 04:24:11 PM

I want the ones who pay very little to pay an average amount.  Stop going off on tangents.

so you want special tax rules for the wealthy?

Im not wealthy and paid zero tax last year

and Im not alone

are you proposing a tax on wealth instead of income

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 19, 2021, 04:53:55 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2021, 04:21:35 PM

There, fixed it for ya.

the vast majority of us know it's necessary

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 19, 2021, 05:18:42 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2021, 04:20:55 PM

How about the same as us or a little more?  Let's start there.  It's not hard.

Actually, it is hard.  If it were easy, it would already be done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 19, 2021, 05:35:11 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 19, 2021, 05:18:42 PM

Actually, it is hard.  If it were easy, it would already be done.

Just how high is fair

again the top 10% of income earners pay over 70% of the income taxes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 19, 2021, 05:39:45 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 19, 2021, 11:04:24 AM

the world's billionaires could do much more good for humanity in my opinion

but, I certainly haven't walked a mile in their moccasins  sat in their Cessna

FIFY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2021, 06:43:47 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 19, 2021, 05:18:42 PM

Actually, it is hard.  If it were easy, it would already be done.

This is so naive, it's adorable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2021, 06:46:32 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 19, 2021, 05:35:11 PM

Just how high is fair

again the top 10% of income earners pay over 70% of the income taxes

You keep using that stat.  Do you know if it actually tells us anything?  Do the top 10% make 70% of the income?  What if we....you know, strayed away from this 'home base' stat you keep sharing and have an actual conversation.


As in:  hey longhorn, do you think it's cool that several multi-billionaires pay under 1% in income tax?  Might we increase their tax rate to maybe your rate or mine?  Or do you need to check with Mitch McConnell first, to find out your answer?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 19, 2021, 06:48:04 PM

Fro was all like

(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/161231205229-new-years-eve-anderson-cooper-kathy-griffin-puppets-sot-00003908.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 19, 2021, 07:03:36 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2021, 06:46:32 PM

You keep using that stat.  Do you know if it actually tells us anything?  Do the top 10% make 70% of the income?  What if we....you know, strayed away from this 'home base' stat you keep sharing and have an actual conversation.


As in:  hey longhorn, do you think it's cool that several multi-billionaires pay under 1% in income tax?  Might we increase their tax rate to maybe your rate or mine?  Or do you need to check with Mitch McConnell first, to find out your answer?

If the top 10% are paying in 70% of the tax revenue I dont have a problem with selected taxpayers paying only 1% of their income in tax as long as they followed the law

Now Mr smarty what is your suggestion to get these extra taxes you say exist

do you want to change the tx laws do you want a general tax on wealth

do you want to change to a flat tax system

just what are you suggesting we do

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 19, 2021, 07:06:36 PM

A Utah chemistry teacher that is basically the female version of Fro got her self fired on the first day of school. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuRP37eAedE

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 19, 2021, 07:15:33 PM

Thats amazing

damn scary

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2021, 09:04:56 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2021, 06:46:32 PM

As in:  hey longhorn, do you think it's cool that several multi-billionaires pay under 1% in income tax?  Might we increase their tax rate to maybe your rate or mine?  Or do you need to check with Mitch McConnell first, to find out your answer?

I'd need to see an example of how a billionaire pays under 1% on INCOME tax.  And increasing their tax rate would obviously not change how they manage the tax system, this is a fairly common misconception.  The marginal top income tax rates obviously is well over "under 1%", that simply is not the issue, at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 19, 2021, 09:18:26 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 19, 2021, 09:04:56 PM

I'd need to see an example of how a billionaire pays under 1% on INCOME tax.  And increasing their tax rate would obviously not change how they manage the tax system, this is a fairly common misconception.  The marginal top income tax rates obviously is well over "under 1%", that simply is not the issue, at all.

often their investments generate losses which the tax law allows to be carried forward to offset future earnings

its a little unfair for a media outlet to take one year out of context and contend the taxpayer pays no taxes on income

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2021, 09:28:31 PM

My point is how they manage income so as to avoid INCOME taxes.

They don't need to have taxable income, if their managers so choose.  A billionaire has zero need to any taxable income.  So, he doesn't pay income tax.

And yes, in a given year he might choose to 'cash out' and pays a lot in income tax, but he doesn't need to.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 19, 2021, 09:59:41 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 19, 2021, 05:39:45 PM

FIFY

Dude, it's with a "B".  they wouldn't be caught dead in a Cessna 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 19, 2021, 10:09:12 PM

Maybe in this Cessna.

(https://i.insider.com/570277b452bcd066018ba856?width=1000&format=jpeg&auto=webp)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 19, 2021, 10:10:58 PM

maybe, but I doubt it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2021, 02:30:23 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 19, 2021, 09:04:56 PM

I'd need to see an example of how a billionaire pays under 1% on INCOME tax.  And increasing their tax rate would obviously not change how they manage the tax system, this is a fairly common misconception.  The marginal top income tax rates obviously is well over "under 1%", that simply is not the issue, at all.

Right, so I'm advocating for changing the system.  Thanks for spelling it out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2021, 02:32:51 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 19, 2021, 07:03:36 PM

If the top 10% are paying in 70% of the tax revenue I dont have a problem with selected taxpayers paying only 1% of their income in tax as long as they followed the law

Now Mr smarty what is your suggestion to get these extra taxes you say exist

do you want to change the tx laws do you want a general tax on wealth

do you want to change to a flat tax system

just what are you suggesting we do

Same as the legal system - I'd like a person's wealth to be irrelevant when it comes to how sneaky they can be with taxes or their alleged innocence.  Our broken systems favor the ultra-wealthy and it costs us - all of us.  
Maybe I'm not bothered by high-end lawyers and accountants having a more basic life.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2021, 02:34:41 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on August 19, 2021, 07:06:36 PM

A Utah chemistry teacher that is basically the female version of Fro got her self fired on the first day of school.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuRP37eAedE

Hey mods, how much longer until this is targeted harassment?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2021, 08:15:57 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2021, 02:30:23 AM

Right, so I'm advocating for changing the system.  Thanks for spelling it out.

OK, how?  You said raising their income tax rates, which would do nothing.

A wealth tax may be unconstitutional, in addition to having unintended consequences.

I think folks conflate WEALTH with INCOME.  We tax the latter.  A billionaire can easily, and legally, have zero income.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2021, 08:46:01 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 20, 2021, 08:15:57 AM

OK, how?  You said raising their income tax rates, which would do nothing.

A wealth tax may be unconstitutional, in addition to having unintended consequences.

I think folks conflate WEALTH with INCOME.  We tax the latter.  A billionaire can easily, and legally, have zero income.

I'll never understand why the non-1%ers defend the 1%ers so vigorously.
Cincy, you know how you and I pay income tax?  We make X-amount of money in a fiscal year and then pay taxes on it?  That's what they should do, too.  The system's loopholes and exceptions should be eliminated and it's  simple "you made this much, so you pay this amount in taxes" just like you and me.  

Fancy accountants should be compensated not for their ability to avoid taxes, but for their otherwise depth and breadth of knowledge about accounting.  

I don't care how they made their money, it's income if it's new to you, and so they pay taxes on it.  And if that's not good enough for you, then I don't know enough about it, but I know that the current system (like nearly all of our systems) is broken and needs a paradigm shift.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2021, 08:49:06 AM

I'm not defending anyone, I''m trying with no success to explain to you why a billionaire has no need to pay INCOME tax if he has no INCOME.

It's a simple concept.  And there might be no way to fix that obvious fact.  It doesn't take loopholes and accountants.  That is NOT the point.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 20, 2021, 09:11:38 AM

the point with billionaires "income" is when they have 1 billion last year, but this year they have 2 billion.  They could pay taxes on the added billion.  Capital gains, interest income, whatever

this started with Mdot pointing out that the billionaire's wealth grew substantially over the previous year.  Did they pay taxes on this "income"

I'd guess they did not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 20, 2021, 10:06:07 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2021, 02:34:41 AM

Hey mods, how much longer until this is targeted harassment? 

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/108C3/production/_103897776_npc_meme_cnn.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 20, 2021, 10:16:32 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2021, 02:32:51 AM

Same as the legal system - I'd like a person's wealth to be irrelevant when it comes to how sneaky they can be with taxes or their alleged innocence.  Our broken systems favor the ultra-wealthy and it costs us - all of us. 
Maybe I'm not bothered by high-end lawyers and accountants having a more basic life. 

same old dogma with zero ideas
youre reading from a script the left has used for years

Im going to ask you one more time

what ideas do you have on how to achieve your goal

the wealthy go to jail just like you and me if they violate the tax law

so what should be done to fix the system you say is broken

our tax rates increase with the amount of taxable income a tax payer has so what else do you want done

dont tell us what you want the end result to be instead tell us how to get there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2021, 10:40:08 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 20, 2021, 09:11:38 AM

the point with billionaires "income" is when they have 1 billion last year, but this year they have 2 billion.  They could pay taxes on the added billion.  Capital gains, interest income, whatever

this started with Mdot pointing out that the billionaire's wealth grew substantially over the previous year.  Did they pay taxes on this "income"

I'd guess they did not.

This again is part of my point which folks consistently miss.  An increase in WEALTH is not necessarily INCOME, it simply isn't, and often is not at this level.

Imagine a billionaire who has $1 billion IN STOCK in some company, say FB, and the price of said stock DOUBLES in a year.  He's now worth $2 billion, just on that asset alone, and PAYS NO INCOME TAXES ON IT (unless he sells it, then he pays capital gains taxes if he held the asset a year or more).

INCOME is NOT WEALTH!

We tax INCOME.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2021, 10:51:20 AM

One thing billionaires rarely do is sell assets.  You only have INCOME when you sell (or get dividends).  Your wealthy goes up, you hope, but you have no income as a result of that.  None, zero, no fancy accountants needed.

We tax income.

The truly wealthy simply do not need taxable income.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 20, 2021, 10:53:12 AM

I agree, but.......... the billionaire has to cash some stock to pay for his lifestyle.

meals, travel, maid service, chauffeur, ect.  Just like you and me.

so, he should be showing more income than you and me combined, because he's spending more to live than we are.

as I stated, capital gains tax 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 20, 2021, 10:54:17 AM

The majority of U.S. households paid no federal income taxes in 2020, a spike driven by the pandemic-induced economic downturn and multiple rounds of tax-based assistance. The trend is likely to continue in 2021.

Nearly 107 million households — or 61% of U.S. households — owed no federal income taxes in 2020, according to estimates by The Tax Policy Center, marking a 40% increase from 2019 when 43.6% of households didn’t pay taxes.

“Even though those numbers are very dramatic, they are only temporary,” Howard Gleckman, senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center, told Yahoo Money. “What happened was because of COVID and then because of the policy response to COVID. Many more people did not pay federal income tax in 2020.”

One reason for the drastic drop is the financial hardship many Americans experienced last year. More than 20 million workers lost their jobs in 2020 with low-income workers hit hardest. Many of the low-wage workers paid little income taxes before the pandemic, and the drop in income meant they owed even less money to the Internal Revenue Service.

https://money.yahoo.com/households-paid-no-income-tax-last-year-143002729.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9sLmZhY2Vib29rLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALq4h9zK2ttSmADq_4lWOSTYkEX8U11pZy9tSR_A0-0d6oRuk40UqH765ffXe-aupowQwNOmCE1CxljQKCBE0Nug4Es2nvJHP0dL5LFEbbmksnoTDu_jETvZNILGoKlVw9CGVR6gbMZqc4fZR2Ngly7I4yUtAU-vwrvOfGacbBpl (https://money.yahoo.com/households-paid-no-income-tax-last-year-143002729.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9sLmZhY2Vib29rLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALq4h9zK2ttSmADq_4lWOSTYkEX8U11pZy9tSR_A0-0d6oRuk40UqH765ffXe-aupowQwNOmCE1CxljQKCBE0Nug4Es2nvJHP0dL5LFEbbmksnoTDu_jETvZNILGoKlVw9CGVR6gbMZqc4fZR2Ngly7I4yUtAU-vwrvOfGacbBpl)

apparently, it's not just the very wealthy that don't pay income tax

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 20, 2021, 11:02:53 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 20, 2021, 08:15:57 AM

OK, how?  You said raising their income tax rates, which would do nothing.

A wealth tax may be unconstitutional, in addition to having unintended consequences.

I think folks conflate WEALTH with INCOME.  We tax the latter.  A billionaire can easily, and legally, have zero income.

Right- and this is the problem. They are gaming the system. If you won't un-rig the system, then tax their wealth if they continue to game the system to show no income. An income tax was unconstitutional. Until the government amended the constitution. Make an amendment for a wealth tax on the ultra-wealthy. 

OR maybe a better idea would be to just use government agencies to pass & enforce regulations- like the SEC declaring that CEO's and other top executives cannot be paid $1 in salary and the rest in stock or stock options. Just ban stock related compensation. This is well within their powers. And have the federal reserve pass regulation that banks cannot make 0% interest loans to people who put up publicly traded shares up as collateral.

This would do what? It would force the massive publicly traded companies to actually PAY THEIR CEO'S and other top executives an income- which would in turn would be taxed. And it would force people like Bezos to have to sell stock to earn income- which would be taxed- instead of borrowing hundreds of millions of dollars at a clip from a bank with a bullshit loan that's 0% interest.

And the large corporations aren't any better. In 2020, 55 of the largest corporations in the US paid no tax. And those 55 corporations had spent roughly $500 million combined on lobbyists & political contributions in the previous few years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 20, 2021, 11:04:41 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 20, 2021, 10:54:17 AM

The majority of U.S. households paid no federal income taxes in 2020, a spike driven by the pandemic-induced economic downturn and multiple rounds of tax-based assistance. The trend is likely to continue in 2021.

Nearly 107 million households — or 61% of U.S. households — owed no federal income taxes in 2020, according to estimates by The Tax Policy Center, marking a 40% increase from 2019 when 43.6% of households didn’t pay taxes.

“Even though those numbers are very dramatic, they are only temporary,” Howard Gleckman, senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center, told Yahoo Money. “What happened was because of COVID and then because of the policy response to COVID. Many more people did not pay federal income tax in 2020.”

One reason for the drastic drop is the financial hardship many Americans experienced last year. More than 20 million workers lost their jobs in 2020 with low-income workers hit hardest. Many of the low-wage workers paid little income taxes before the pandemic, and the drop in income meant they owed even less money to the Internal Revenue Service.

https://money.yahoo.com/households-paid-no-income-tax-last-year-143002729.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9sLmZhY2Vib29rLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALq4h9zK2ttSmADq_4lWOSTYkEX8U11pZy9tSR_A0-0d6oRuk40UqH765ffXe-aupowQwNOmCE1CxljQKCBE0Nug4Es2nvJHP0dL5LFEbbmksnoTDu_jETvZNILGoKlVw9CGVR6gbMZqc4fZR2Ngly7I4yUtAU-vwrvOfGacbBpl (https://money.yahoo.com/households-paid-no-income-tax-last-year-143002729.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9sLmZhY2Vib29rLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALq4h9zK2ttSmADq_4lWOSTYkEX8U11pZy9tSR_A0-0d6oRuk40UqH765ffXe-aupowQwNOmCE1CxljQKCBE0Nug4Es2nvJHP0dL5LFEbbmksnoTDu_jETvZNILGoKlVw9CGVR6gbMZqc4fZR2Ngly7I4yUtAU-vwrvOfGacbBpl)

apparently, it's not just the very wealthy that don't pay income tax

you do realize that the richest 400 Americans alone- have more total wealth than the bottom 150 million Americans combined, right? That's 400 people, who have more than about half the country. And that gap has only grown larger in the last 17 months. This is scary. This could lead to the end of this society if it continues on this pace.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 20, 2021, 11:07:45 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 20, 2021, 11:02:53 AM

And the large corporations aren't any better. In 2020, 55 of the largest corporations in the US paid no tax. And those 55 corporations had spent roughly $500 million combined on lobbyists & political contributions in the previous few years.

I call BS on this please provide your source

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 20, 2021, 11:09:34 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 20, 2021, 11:04:41 AM

you do realize that the richest 400 Americans alone- have more total wealth than the bottom 150 million Americans combined, right? That's 400 people, who have more than about half the country. And that gap has only grown larger in the last 17 months. This is scary. This could lead to the end of this society if it continues on this pace.

source please

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 20, 2021, 11:16:19 AM

echo?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 20, 2021, 11:17:24 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 20, 2021, 11:07:45 AM

I call BS on this please provide your source

https://itep.org/55-profitable-corporations-zero-corporate-tax/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 20, 2021, 11:20:14 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 20, 2021, 11:09:34 AM

source please

https://inequality.org/facts/wealth-inequality/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 20, 2021, 11:23:49 AM

from Stanford. nothing but genius nerds there;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nATERilo3TM

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 20, 2021, 11:29:00 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 20, 2021, 11:17:24 AM

https://itep.org/55-profitable-corporations-zero-corporate-tax/

Thank you


a review of the source says that these companies used a variety of legal deductions to lower their tax liability

research and development cost
energy saving investments

were two of them

if your bent is to take away such allowable deductions fine

be careful cause these corporations employ millions of taxpayers and pay a huge amount in employee payroll taxes

if you take away these deductions there is a risk of the companies simply going to another country where tax laws are better for them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 20, 2021, 11:41:18 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 20, 2021, 11:23:49 AM

from Stanford. nothing but genius nerds there;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nATERilo3TM

nothing quite like being preached to by a citizen of another country 

no thanks 

I'll still take America over any other country 

its interesting he's from a country that continually violates its citizens rights

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2021, 12:00:09 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 20, 2021, 10:53:12 AM

I agree, but.......... the billionaire has to cash some stock to pay for his lifestyle.

meals, travel, maid service, chauffeur, ect.  Just like you and me.

so, he should be showing more income than you and me combined, because he's spending more to live than we are.

as I stated, capital gains tax

No, he doesn't, at all.  You can easily get margin loans on stock, as I noted before, and you can invest in municipal bonds and get income with zero tax, or you can just eat cash on hand.  As I said, a wealthy person does not NEED income.

This is an extreme example, but imagine I own $1 billion in stock "X" (not US Steel).  It pays no dividend, that is my entire wealth, and I need say $20 million a year for lifestyle.  I can easily borrow $50 million off that on margin, buy some municipal bonds (they don't pay much now, but maybe 2%, tax free), and get interest for future years expenses.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2021, 12:02:38 PM

As for executive compensation, the carried interest exemption is the huge one Congress won't touch, Dem or Rep, because few understand it.

I bet a lot here have never heard of it, or don't know what it means.

As for CEOs getting stock options and RSUs, obviously if the stock price goes DOWN, they end up with nothing.

And when they get exercised, the proceeds are taxed as earned income, this I know personally.  I nearly had to pay for not withholding enough last year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 20, 2021, 01:01:11 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 20, 2021, 12:00:09 PM

No, he doesn't, at all.  You can easily get margin loans on stock, as I noted before, and you can invest in municipal bonds and get income with zero tax, or you can just eat cash on hand.  As I said, a wealthy person does not NEED income.

This is an extreme example, but imagine I own $1 billion in stock "X" (not US Steel).  It pays no dividend, that is my entire wealth, and I need say $20 million a year for lifestyle.  I can easily borrow $50 million off that on margin, buy some municipal bonds (they don't pay much now, but maybe 2%, tax free), and get interest for future years expenses.

perhaps these loopholes should be eliminated?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2021, 01:03:38 PM

They aren't "loopholes", as I think of the term.  We tax INCOME.  If you have no INCOME, you have no tax.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 20, 2021, 01:09:14 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 20, 2021, 11:16:19 AM

echo?

Bueller...Bueller

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 20, 2021, 01:11:16 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 20, 2021, 11:29:00 AM

a review of the source says that these companies used a variety of legal deductions to lower their tax liability

Many of these tax rules/laws have been put on the books by lobbyists in congress doing their thing.Gaze in wide wonder who they could have working for

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 20, 2021, 01:12:19 PM

the 2% income from the muni bonds could be taxed - closing a loop hole

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2021, 01:14:14 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 20, 2021, 01:12:19 PM

the 2% income from the muni bonds could be taxed - closing a loop hole

Yes, and what would be the consequence of that step for municipalities?

As for companies, the most often used tax "dodge" is simply to have no taxable income, or have losses in preceding years that are carried over.  Once again, no income, no income tax.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 20, 2021, 01:17:50 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 20, 2021, 01:14:14 PM

Yes, and what would be the consequence of that step for municipalities?

As for companies, the most often used tax "dodge" is simply to have no taxable income, or have losses in preceding years that are carried over.  Once again, no income, no income tax.

I strongly disagree that using a loss carryforward is a tax dodge

its as much a part of tax law as anything else

tax reduction not tax dodge

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 20, 2021, 01:19:39 PM

exactly why the munis won't allow the "dodge" to go away.

if there are ways to make huge piles of money w/o showing as income, then either the "dodging" has to be eliminated or tax something besides income

nut, obviously none of this will EVER happen while the very rich and large corporations own the politicians that make the tax laws

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 20, 2021, 01:24:42 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 20, 2021, 01:19:39 PM

exactly why the munis won't allow the "dodge" to go away.

if there are ways to make huge piles of money w/o showing as income, then either the "dodging" has to be eliminated or tax something besides income

nut, obviously none of this will EVER happen while the very rich and large corporations own the politicians that make the tax laws

why pick on municipal bonds

there are many not wealthy folks who also invest in them also

there is much more money to be made even after taxes that muni bonds that the rich can indulge in

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 20, 2021, 01:27:09 PM

municipal bonds are just one example of a tax "Dodge"

not picking on anyone

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2021, 01:27:52 PM

Let's say Company "X" loses $100 million in Year One, Two, Three, and Four, and then in Year Five makes $100 million.  They won't pay income tax.  This is pretty common for new companies, startups, etc.  At times, they get bought up in part for the tax losses.

Unless we try and tax WEALTH, all this will be inherent no matter what minor changes are done to the code.  Countries in Europe have tried a wealth tax, and they learned it did not provide the revenue they had hoped, and had adverse consequences.

Why Europe Has Mostly Ditched the Wealth Tax Over the Last Few Decades (businessinsider.com) (https://www.businessinsider.com/what-happened-when-the-wealth-tax-was-implemented-in-europe-2019-10)

French economist Eric Pichet estimated the outward flow of wealth (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228281017_The_Economic_Consequences_of_the_French_Wealth_Tax) cost the French government twice as much revenue as the total ultimately yielded by the tax.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2021, 02:34:41 PM

Congress has over time made some adjustments to close "loopholes".  The charitable contribution thing is stiffer now, and the larger standard deduction means it does nothing for most of us.  The SALT deduction was limited which hurts folks in high tax states.  Democrats want that gone of course.  When I first started working, I tracked how much sales tax I paid yearly, what a pain.  That was deductable.  Taxes are simpler now than they were, but still overly complex.  And folks believe billionaires have some hidden tax breaks no available to us.  They read the top line of some "news" analysis and get a highly biased take on "the wealthy".

The key, to me, is to generate tax revenue in the most efficient and fair way possible.  The US already has one of the most progressive income tax systems in the world, we barely tax the middle class as compared with Europe.  It's a simple fact that to raise more revenue, you have to tax the middle, and upper middle, there aren't enough folks making millions a year to generate that much revenue from them even if you raise the top bracket to 70% or 90%.  And then there is Hauser's "Law".

We might be better served with a consumption tax.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2021, 07:24:37 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 20, 2021, 11:41:18 AM

nothing quite like being preached to by a citizen of another country

no thanks

I'll still take America over any other country

its interesting he's from a country that continually violates its citizens rights

I don't understand you.
You let irrelevant things become red flags and basically worship the 1%.  Why?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 20, 2021, 08:57:39 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2021, 08:46:01 AM

I'll never understand why the non-1%ers defend the 1%ers so vigorously.

Can you understand how people would vote on principle even if it went against their economic interests?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 20, 2021, 09:10:47 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2021, 07:24:37 PM

I don't understand you.
You let irrelevant things become red flags and basically worship the 1%.  Why?

oh Lord is that time already

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 20, 2021, 09:18:34 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 20, 2021, 01:24:42 PM

why pick on municipal bonds

there are many not wealthy folks who also invest in them also

there is much more money to be made even after taxes that muni bonds that the rich can indulge in

There are bed effects from people sheltering their income buying municipal bonds.  It encourages profligate spending by the municipalities, for one.  And for another it removes that money from the free market where it would contribute to the economy.  And be taxable.  Too-high marginal tax rates encourage buying municipal bonds.  Maybe if the billionaires couldn't shelter their income in muni bonds, they'd buy some Congressmen to lower the top rates, which aren't being paid anyway.
When marginal tax rates are too high, they aren't paid for the most part.  People at that tax rate generally have the ability to shelter their income by buying things like municipal bonds.
If you look at the huge marginal tax-rate reductions of the Harding-Coolidge years, you find that "the wealthy" were collectively paying much more in both absolute terms and in percentage terms under the lower rates.  And that there was a huge increase in the numbers of the wealthy.  And the debt from WWI was rapidly paid down.
Same thing--to a lesser degree--happened with the smaller Reagan-era tax reductions.  More people were paying the top rate, and they were paying both a much greater absolute amount and a much larger share of income tax revenues.

Make the top marginal tax rate 100%, and virtually no one will let his/her taxable income get to that level.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 20, 2021, 09:24:57 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 20, 2021, 09:18:34 PM

Make the top marginal tax rate 100%, and virtually no one will let his/her taxable income get to that level.

nope they will leave the country and take jobs with them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 20, 2021, 09:29:35 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 20, 2021, 09:18:34 PM

When marginal tax rates are too high, they aren't paid for the most part.  People at that tax rate generally have the ability to shelter their income by buying things like municipal bonds.

People buy Muni Bonds with after tax dollars for the most part so I dont understand this logic

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 20, 2021, 10:00:13 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 20, 2021, 09:24:57 PM

nope they will leave the country and take jobs with them

The result is the same either way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 20, 2021, 10:01:31 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 20, 2021, 09:29:35 PM

People buy Muni Bonds with after tax dollars for the most part so I dont understand this logic

When a purchase is tax-deductible, you are making it with before-tax dollars.  Municipal bonds are tax deductible.  Or at least they have been historically.  If they are not, that's a change I haven't known about.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 20, 2021, 10:47:45 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 20, 2021, 10:01:31 PM

When a purchase is tax-deductible, you are making it with before-tax dollars.  Municipal bonds are tax deductible.  Or at least they have been historically.  If they are not, that's a change I haven't known about.

nope the only tax benefit is the taxability of interest earned in the future

the buying of a muni bond has no affect on your taxable income 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 20, 2021, 10:49:20 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 20, 2021, 10:00:13 PM

The result is the same either way.

I dont agree

just ask New York how many taxpayers theyve lost over high taxes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 20, 2021, 10:52:58 PM

blame the governor and the mayor

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2021, 09:31:28 AM

I think the fact is when a person is ultra rich, they can avoid ANY tax system legally.  

Let's imagine a wealth tax on just stocks and eqs.  Dude has a billion in say Apple and it doubles, and you tax his billion now at 5%, or $50 million.  Europe has shown you don't raise much revenue this way, in part because he can leave the country, or convert into some other untaxed asset (which would incur capgains), or just pay it, but that means he'd have to sell a portion to pay the tax, which would put a downward drag on the stock price if multiplied out.

The main point for me is that it doesn't appear to generate enough revenue to be worth it.  (And it may be uncon).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2021, 10:26:27 AM

24 photos: Wandering Atlanta's largest public park, now open | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/westside-park-open-largest-public-biggest-reservoir-bellwood-quarry)

Going to visit today or tomorrow, should be interesting, oddly hard to find.  This would be a good challenge for our skyline thread, second photo would be easy.

(https://i.imgur.com/Sq3q6cT.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/JVW6RhV.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 21, 2021, 12:44:12 PM

Now they are taunting us. What a disaster.

(https://i.imgur.com/mBaSZSa.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 12:58:14 PM

Once we decided to leave, it was going to be a strategic disaster, which will make everything we are trying to do in the world much more difficult, and much more costly in terms of American lives.

The incompetent execution has made it a vast human tragedy as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 21, 2021, 01:05:16 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 21, 2021, 12:44:12 PM

Now they are taunting us. What a disaster.

(https://i.imgur.com/mBaSZSa.jpg)

Not sure if they're taunting or not, but at the end of the day- it is their country. It's not ours. I'm sure if Mexico had invaded and occupied US territory for 20+ years and were suddenly leaving- we'd be pretty damn happy too. Might be flag planting too. We we're the invaders & military occupiers. We propped up a corrupt and inept government for 20 years. The real disaster was ever going into Afghanistan in the first place under false pretenses- and then staying there for 20 years and spending literally trillions of dollars.

The Afghanistan Papers showed that that US state department diplomats, intelligence, and military officers openly knew and talked about how the "Afghan government" and "Afghan Army" were nothing but a farce, rampant with corruption, and how they were lying to the US public about the war effort- and that it was inevitable that the puppet "Afghan gov't & Afghan army" would fold like a cheap suite whenever America withdrew.

I don't like Biden at all- but he did the right thing in getting the hell out of there. The only mistake was lying to the American people for months prior- telling them Afghanistan wouldn't fall right away if we left. He had the intelligence- he knew it would. They were trying to save face and hope and pray on the odd chance the Afghan gov't and army would hold. They didn't want to admit defeat and force evacuate all Americans, green card holders, and friendlies- AND then withdraw all military forces. That was the grave mistake.

At the end of the day though- we had to GTFO. Doesn't matter if we stayed for 3 more months 3 more years or 30 more years- same result would've happened. Taliban would've came surging back to retake the country like they had it before we ever invaded in 2001.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 21, 2021, 01:10:30 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 21, 2021, 01:05:16 PM

The only mistake was lying to the American people for months prior- telling them Afghanistan wouldn't fall right away if we left. .

No.

Quote from: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 12:58:14 PM

The incompetent execution has made it a vast human tragedy as well.

Yes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 01:14:20 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 21, 2021, 01:10:30 PM

No.

Yes.

Agree. 
and the vast human tragedy, things like throwing an Afghanistan woman onto a fire and burning her to death because she was a bad cook, forcing 15-year-old girls into a life of sex slavery, commonly beheading people who you think disagree with you etc, Is now set in motion until some thing or someone puts a stop to it.

not to mention it was before and will again be a breeding ground funding station and training area for people who want to end western civilization as we know it.

You can talk about the high cost of the 20 years we spent there, but a great argument could be made that the cost is going to go up substantially not only in money and resources but in human lives and in human tragedy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 21, 2021, 01:18:49 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 21, 2021, 01:10:30 PM

No.

Sorry, but yes. Classified US internal government interviews & memos show they knew everything would fall as soon as America withdrew- and that we did nothing there for 20 years but help foster INCREDIBLE levels of corruption and make deal after deal with shady warlord- some of which who traffic drugs and child sex rings. 

US had no choice but to leave. Staying was not an option. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 21, 2021, 01:30:56 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 01:14:20 PM

Agree. 
and the vast human tragedy, things like throwing an Afghanistan woman onto a fire and burning her to death because she was a bad cook, forcing 15-year-old girls into a life of sex slavery, commonly beheading people who you think disagree with you etc, Is now set in motion until some thing or someone puts a stop to it.

not to mention it was before and will again be a breeding ground funding station and training area for people who want to end western civilization as we know it.

You can talk about the high cost of the 20 years we spent there, but a great argument could be made that the cost is going to go up substantially not only in money and resources but in human lives and in human tragedy.

This is just dead wrong on so many levels, don't know where to begin. There are a lot of terrible governments and atrocities in the world- the US doesn't intervene everywhere on humanitarian grounds. In fact- we hardly ever do. We are not the worlds police. The world doesn't belong to us either.

If you want to go on and on about women's rights and terror- one of our closest allies- the Saudi's- have a government as repressive as the Taliban- and Saudi Arabia is literally ground zero for Muslim Extremism/Terrorism. 

Afghanistan was not some breeding ground for terror. It's true that Osama Bin Laden and his followers (A SAUDI NATIONAL- 99% OF WHOM WERE ALSO SAUDI) was given safe harbor there- but it's not because they agreed with his mission or cause. They gave him and his followers safe harbor because Bin Laden had helped Taliban leaders and their predecessors fight off the Soviets. These people were US backed intelligence assets for 10 years from '79 to '89 - funding, training, and arming them. We had a hand in creating these people with our meddling during those 10 years. 

If you'll remember- the US demanded that the Taliban hand over Bin Laden, no negotiations, no questions asked. The Taliban asked for the US gov't to present to them evidence that Bin Laden was behind the 9/11 attacks, and they will consider handing him over. The US refused to share any evidence, decided to invade & bomb- and they demanded the Taliban hand him over or the bombings will continue. Well- they never handed him over and the war aims changed to- we will continue to bomb you until you change your government leadership. This is textbook definition of an illegal war. The stated aim was to go into Afghanistan and capture Bin Laden and dismantle Al-Qaeda. Not to change the government of Afghanistan. We should've never went in there in the first place- but as soon the US captured or killed most of Al-Qaeda and it's leadership and drove Bin Laden out of Afghanistan and into Pakistan- we should've left. We didn't. Instead, what did our dumbasses do? Stay there another 18 years and spend trillions of dollars.

We had to go. Point blank period. We had no business staying there another second let alone another 20 years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 01:37:23 PM

Time will tell.  But the early signs point to you being way off.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 21, 2021, 01:41:13 PM

War Is A Racket. (https://www.amazon.com/War-Racket-Antiwar-Americas-Decorated/dp/0922915865)

US defense contractors, civil engineering & construction contractors, and other private contractors literally made hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars over the 20 years long war in Afghanistan.

Why did the military and intelligence want to stay? Nothing to do with "human rights". Afghanistan is sitting on trillions of dollars worth of untapped minerals- including maybe $1 trillion worth of lithium- which is going to be the new oil as EV's take over starting in the 2030's and rapidly growing into the 2040's.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 21, 2021, 01:46:22 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 01:37:23 PM

Time will tell.  But the early signs point to you being way off. 

Taliban was always going to take over as soon as we left. And things were always going to get worse before they got better.

US couldn't stay there forever. We can't even afford to fix our bridges & roads here- but we're going to spend billions building them infrastructure- and trillions more staying in Afghanistan another 20 years? Yeah- OK. Not.

Staying would do nothing but weaken us. Staying in Afghanistan and occupying and unconquerable people and country for 10 years and spending obscene amounts of money helped lead to the toppling of the Soviets. I'd rather US not repeat those same mistakes. Already in it twice as worse as they were. No need to make things worse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 21, 2021, 01:46:28 PM

Most are not disappointed at the US leaving

they are very disappointed in the way we left

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 21, 2021, 01:48:19 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 21, 2021, 01:46:28 PM

Most are not disappointed at the US leaving

they are very disappointed in the way we left

I am on board with that. They should've did a troop surge, force evacuated all US citizens & friendlies, put explosives on all US weaponry and equipment- blew everything up and then gtfo. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 21, 2021, 01:50:27 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 21, 2021, 01:48:19 PM

I am on board with that. They should've did a troop surge, force evacuated all US citizens & friendlies, put explosives on all US weaponry and equipment- blew everything up and then gtfo.

if you could come up with that why the hell couldnt our leaders think of it

what in hell is going on

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2021, 03:02:23 PM

Drone Days of Summer: The Latest Sky-High Views of Midtown Development Projects (midtownatl.com) (https://www.midtownatl.com/about/news-center/post/drone-days-of-summer-see-our-sky-high-views-of-midtown-development-projects?fbclid=IwAR0OiZaYsetbjsxA0HkVREQDPeYVDCgrTcmGUCmz-4wfKZrBpbSAiWgFzjM)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 21, 2021, 03:49:57 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 21, 2021, 01:18:49 PM

Sorry, but yes. Classified US internal government interviews & memos show they knew everything would fall as soon as America withdrew- and that we did nothing there for 20 years but help foster INCREDIBLE levels of corruption and make deal after deal with shady warlord- some of which who traffic drugs and child sex rings.

US had no choice but to leave. Staying was not an option.

Oh I'm not disagreeing with that.

Your assertion was that was the ONLY mistake and it certainly was not.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 21, 2021, 05:17:43 PM

My thing is who is going to trust us now? Even are best allies are in WTF mode. Freakin' Brits are evacuating OUR military.

What was the f'ing plan here? Disaster is the best word.

And I agree - get out. It is now perfectly clear that the Afghans didn't want to fight for their country. They laid down their weapons (our weapons) and now the Taliban has a whole lot of new toys.

If they would not fight for their own country - why should WE fight for their country? 

Why did my son have to go there twice? For what? Absolutely nothing.

Thankful he's fine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 05:26:35 PM

Going to Afghanistan never made any sense and we only stayed there so long because this is what withdraw looked like.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 21, 2021, 05:27:32 PM

A better plan would have been nice. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 05:31:41 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 05:26:35 PM

Going to Afghanistan never made any sense and we only stayed there so long because this is what withdraw looked like.

Debatable.   Oh how we forgot.  I think we will be reminded shortly.   

one thing is for sure/ we really need to figure out how to understand who is coming into our country via the borders. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 05:37:35 PM

The plan was for the Afghan "army" we built and financed to hold off the Taliban for a few weeks. That was obviously a misstep. Would have been better off forgiving student loans.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 05:42:28 PM

We could have stayed indefinitely at the low level of forces and engagements that we have had since 2014.  In the last 7 years, we have lost 66 personnel and spent about $10 billion--a rounding error in the federal budget--a year.

There has been no groundswell of public opinion demanding that we get out.  Both presidential candidates promised--for various reasons--that they would get us out, and the Trump administration made the deal with the Taliban in early 2020 setting an end date.  At that point, the Afghan army, such as it is, began surrendering and melting away.  They were prepared to fight while we were there--over 50,000 of them died fighting alongside us--but not to fight once they knew that we were abandoning them.

If we weren't going to stay, then why did we go in?  The point was to eliminate Afghanistan as a staging ground for Islamist terrorism.  We toppled the Taliban by early 2202, but we never eliminated them.  Afghanistan will now go right back to being what it was on 11 September 2001.  And if we have to go back in and do it all over again, we will find next to zero Afghanis who will be willing to work with us.

Why did we sacrifice blood and treasure if we were not going to stay the course?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 06:01:40 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 05:37:35 PM

The plan was for the Afghan "army" we built and financed to hold off the Taliban for a few weeks. That was obviously a misstep. Would have been better off forgiving student loans.

Student loans? Huh.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 06:02:22 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 05:42:28 PM

We could have stayed indefinitely at the low level of forces and engagements that we have had since 2014.  In the last 7 years, we have lost 66 personnel and spent about $10 billion--a rounding error in the federal budget--a year.

There has been no groundswell of public opinion demanding that we get out.  Both presidential candidates promised--for various reasons--that they would get us out, and the Trump administration made the deal with the Taliban in early 2020 setting an end date.  At that point, the Afghan army, such as it is, began surrendering and melting away.  They were prepared to fight while we were there--over 50,000 of them died fighting alongside us--but not to fight once they knew that we were abandoning them.

If we weren't going to stay, then why did we go in?  The point was to eliminate Afghanistan as a staging ground for Islamist terrorism.  We toppled the Taliban by early 2202, but we never eliminated them.  Afghanistan will now go right back to being what it was on 11 September 2001.  And if we have to go back in and do it all over again, we will find next to zero Afghanis who will be willing to work with us.

Why did we sacrifice blood and treasure if we were not going to stay the course?

This.  Extremely well articulated. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 06:05:21 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 06:01:40 PM

Student loans? Huh. 

The cost of the war was in the 1 to 2 trillion dollar range. Which is also the range to forgive every student loan. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 06:07:55 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 06:05:21 PM

The cost of the war was in the 1 to 2 trillion dollar range. Which is also the range to forgive every student loan.

Who pays the student loan bill?  Banks? Taxpayers?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 06:08:53 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 05:42:28 PM

We could have stayed indefinitely at the low level of forces and engagements that we have had since 2014.  In the last 7 years, we have lost 66 personnel and spent about $10 billion--a rounding error in the federal budget--a year.

There has been no groundswell of public opinion demanding that we get out.  Both presidential candidates promised--for various reasons--that they would get us out, and the Trump administration made the deal with the Taliban in early 2020 setting an end date.  At that point, the Afghan army, such as it is, began surrendering and melting away.  They were prepared to fight while we were there--over 50,000 of them died fighting alongside us--but not to fight once they knew that we were abandoning them.

If we weren't going to stay, then why did we go in?  The point was to eliminate Afghanistan as a staging ground for Islamist terrorism.  We toppled the Taliban by early 2202, but we never eliminated them.  Afghanistan will now go right back to being what it was on 11 September 2001.  And if we have to go back in and do it all over again, we will find next to zero Afghanis who will be willing to work with us.

Why did we sacrifice blood and treasure if we were not going to stay the course?

I think that is the real trick, whether to stay or go. While we backed away from direct fighting in favor of bombings, there wasn't much evidence that this was helping Afghanistan in any real way. 20 years of civil war led to more or less a standstill. 30 years? 40 years? 50 years? Indefinitely is a long time when it comes to war.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 06:09:38 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 06:07:55 PM

Who pays the student loan bill?  Banks? Taxpayers? 

Sure. The same people paying the bill for Afghanistan. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 06:10:57 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 06:09:38 PM

Sure. The same people paying the bill for Afghanistan.

That’s what makes it a horrible idea.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 06:13:14 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 06:08:53 PM

I think that is the real trick, whether to stay or go. While we backed away from direct fighting in favor of bombings, there wasn't much evidence that this was helping Afghanistan in any real way. 20 years of civil war led to more or less a standstill. 30 years? 40 years? 50 years? Indefinitely is a long time when it comes to war.

Well now that they are terrorized and trying to get out, to avoid beheadings, rapes, beatings, live burnings etc, The situation before actually was helping them. But the bigger thing is it’s helping the rest of the world because now you have the university of tear funded and open for business again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 06:13:17 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 06:10:57 PM

That’s what makes it a horrible idea. 

Huh? Of the two policies, it's pretty clear paying off student loans would have been a better bang for our buck. I don't know that there can be much debate.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 06:14:14 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 06:13:17 PM

Huh? Of the two policies, it's pretty clear paying off student loans would have been a better bang for our buck. I don't know that there can be much debate.

Exiting the way we did makes you right. Better execution would make you dead wrong though and that’s what was supposed to happen

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 06:20:49 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 06:13:14 PM

Well now that they are terrorized and trying to get out, to avoid beheadings, rapes, beatings, live burnings etc, The situation before actually was helping them. But the bigger thing is it’s helping the rest of the world because now you have the university of tear funded and open for business again.

I haven't seen any real evidence that anyone, anywhere thought the Taliban weren't going to take back the country. There is a reason why Trump negotiated directly with them. The military "experts" bounded all sorts of numbers around, usually in the range of a half a year. The actual number was less than a couple weeks. The fundamental miscalculation was that the Afghans wanted to fight in a civil war.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 06:29:18 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 06:20:49 PM

I haven't seen any real evidence that anyone, anywhere thought the Taliban weren't going to take back the country. There is a reason why Trump negotiated directly with them. The military "experts" bounded all sorts of numbers around, usually in the range of a half a year. The actual number was less than a couple weeks. The fundamental miscalculation was that the Afghans wanted to fight in a civil war.

The bigger Another miscalculation was that they would fight in a civil war for 18 months after we made a deal with the enemy and left them to twist in the wind.

The bigger miscalculation was that we could depart with the job undone and all who helped us in danger of their lives with no cost to our own interests around the world.

As Churchill said in Parliament after the Munich sellout of 1938, "You were given the choice between war and dishonor.  You chose dishonor, and you will have war.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2021, 06:42:45 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 06:14:14 PM

Exiting the way we did makes you right. Better execution would make you dead wrong though and that’s what was supposed to happen

You live in a pure fantasy world.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 06:50:03 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2021, 06:42:45 PM

You live in a pure fantasy world. 

With everyone else with an IQ over 30.

if your going to come in attacking, here again like you always do,  start by at least taking a credible position that isn’t laughable.  In lay  terms, get a clue. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2021, 06:54:18 PM

We killed Bin Laden with Obama in the WH.  We didn't leave.  Why?
It would be too messy.
The exact opposite of Obama was voted into the WH.  We didn't leave.  Why?
It would be too messy.
.
There are ZERO scenarios of us leaving that aren't messy.  If nothing else, at least Biden should be respected for having the balls to just get the hell out, knowing what his predecessors knew and still doing it AND standing behind it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 07:01:17 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2021, 06:54:18 PM

We killed Bin Laden with Obama in the WH.  We didn't leave.  Why?
It would be too messy.
The exact opposite of Obama was voted into the WH.  We didn't leave.  Why?
It would be too messy.
.
There are ZERO scenarios of us leaving that aren't messy.  If nothing else, at least Biden should be respected for having the balls to just get the hell out, knowing what his predecessors knew and still doing it AND standing behind it. 

The Biden administration looks incompetent right now.  Even many Democrats are saying this.
Trump should get the blame for making the deal to leave.  That was a fatal step.  It was at that point that at the lower echelons, elements of the Afghan army started making deals with the Taliban.
Biden should get the blame for not overriding Trump's policy and for the chaotic exit, leaving 90% of the Afghans who have put their lives on the line for us to await beheading by the Taliban, and leaving thousands of Americans still trying to find a way to get to the Kabul airport.
It was not killing us to stay there.  It was relatively cheap insurance.
We lost 66 service members over the last 7 years in Afghanistan.  We're losing more Americans than that in unnecessary deaths to Covid every day.  Right now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 21, 2021, 07:05:32 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 07:01:17 PM

The Biden administration looks incompetent right now.  Even many Democrats are saying this.
Trump should get the blame for making the deal to leave.  That was a fatal step.  It was at that point that at the lower echelons, elements of the Afghan army started making deals with the Taliban.
Biden should get the blame for not overriding Trump's policy and for the chaotic exit, leaving 90% of the Afghans who have put their lives on the line for us to await beheading by the Taliban, and leaving thousands of Americans still trying to find a way to get to the Kabul airport.
It was not killing us to stay there.  It was relatively cheap insurance.
We lost 66 service members over the last 7 years in Afghanistan.  We're losing more Americans than that in unnecessary deaths to Covid every day.  Right now.

so youre saying that when Trump made the deal to leave the procedure for the actual exit was always going to be what actually happened

not sure how any of this can be blamed on Trump but that wont stop folks from trying

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 21, 2021, 07:12:24 PM

Fro doesn't know whether to defend Biden or throw his support behind the Taliban. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 07:13:14 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on August 21, 2021, 07:12:24 PM

Fro doesn't know whether to defend Biden or throw his support behind the Taliban.

😂😂😂😂😂

Tough choice -  one group hates USA like him, and the other is a babbling, incoherent..  well- you know. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2021, 07:16:21 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 07:01:17 PM

The Biden administration looks incompetent right now.  Even many Democrats are saying this.

The ________ administration would look bad as the one withdrawing.  "It's not killing us to stay" sounds like advocating for an indefinite occupation.  Not a good plan.
Ripping the band-aid off was the only solution.  Whoever ripped the band-aid was going to look bad...be the 'bad guy', etc.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2021, 07:17:53 PM

You guys are making this political, and it's not.  It's not about how good or bad Biden is.  
All I said was that Biden is doing the difficult thing that neither Obama nor Trump would.  And that's commendable.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 07:19:28 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2021, 07:17:53 PM

You guys are making this political, and it's not.  It's not about how good or bad Biden is. 
All I said was that Biden is doing the difficult thing that neither Obama nor Trump would.  And that's commendable. 

https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/craig-bannister/flashback-joe-biden-repeatedly-promised-take-responsibility-instead-blaming

commendable?   This didn’t age well.  

Also- go reread the last page or two of this thread. Pinpoint the place where it turned political versus a conversation about the current situation.   Then tell me who is “you guys”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 07:24:18 PM

Also- now that it is political- check out the number of high level people on Big Rig Joe’s staff, and in the normally left media who have separated widely and rapidly from him on his handling of this, including having to correct his obvious lack of grasp of the actual situation in his “speech” , that had numerous misstatements they had to correct.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 07:26:42 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2021, 07:16:21 PM

The ________ administration would look bad as the one withdrawing.  "It's not killing us to stay" sounds like advocating for an indefinite occupation.  Not a good plan.
Ripping the band-aid off was the only solution.  Whoever ripped the band-aid was going to look bad...be the 'bad guy', etc. 

Why was indefinite occupation unacceptable?  It was relatively cheap.  In the same universe as what it costs us to maintain 10 times as many troops in South Korea.
To say that ripping the band-aid off was the only solution is an example of all-or-nothing thinking.  It's letting the perfect be the enemy of the just good enough.
It was just good enough to keep the Taliban at bay and keep Afghanistan from being a great haven and staging base for international terrorism that it was in September 2001.
A mature great power accepts that there are limits to its power, but it doesn't adopt the attitude that if it can't achieve total victory then it will do nothing.  After 100-plus years as a great power, we are still immature, and want to pick up our toys and go home when we can't get everything we want.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 07:27:20 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 07:24:18 PM

Also- now that it is political- check out the number of high level people on Big Rig Joe’s staff, and in the normally left media who have separated widely and rapidly from him on his handling of this, including having to correct his obvious lack of grasp of the actual situation in his “speech” , that had numerous misstatements they had to correct. 

It's worth noting the number of people in Trunmp's previous administration who suddenly talked about how they never actually planned to leave Afghanistan. Who cares?

At the end of the day, if we can actually get out of the country without starting some new conflict, Biden will have succeeded where Bush, Obama, and Trump failed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2021, 07:28:07 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 07:19:28 PM

https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/craig-bannister/flashback-joe-biden-repeatedly-promised-take-responsibility-instead-blaming

commendable?  This didn’t age well. 

Also- go reread the last page or two of this thread. Pinpoint the place where it turned political versus a conversation about the current situation.  Then tell me who is “you guys”

Your brilliant jokes about me siding with Biden or the Taliban were pretty political.  Idk, maybe they were just insulting. Hard to say.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 07:29:24 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 07:26:42 PM

Why was indefinite occupation unacceptable?  It was relatively cheap.  In the same universe as what it costs us to maintain 10 times as many troops in South Korea.
To say that ripping the band-aid off was the only solution is an example of all-or-nothing thinking.  It's letting the perfect be the enemy of the just good enough.
It was just good enough to keep the Taliban at bay and keep Afghanistan from being a great haven and staging base for international terrorism that it was in September 2001.
A mature great power accepts that there are limits to its power, but it doesn't adopt the attitude that if it can't achieve total victory then it will do nothing.  After 100-plus years as a great power, we are still immature, and want to pick up our toys and go home when we can't get everything we want.

Amen.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 07:30:04 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2021, 07:28:07 PM

Your brilliant jokes about me siding with Biden or the Taliban were pretty political.  Idk, maybe they were just insulting. Hard to say.

I have to keep pace with you so I was definitely going for both insulting and humorous.  That’s all you know when you come on here is to start by attacking people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2021, 07:30:15 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 07:26:42 PM

Why was indefinite occupation unacceptable? 

Because you're occupying another country.  The cost doesn't matter.  Having your finger in a dam indefinitely isn't a sound plan. 
.
It was a bad idea for a day, yet we did it for 20 years.  And you think we should continue?  
PASS.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2021, 07:30:57 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 07:30:04 PM

I have to keep pace with you so I was definitely going for both insulting and humorous.  That’s all you know when you come on here is to start by attacking people.

I attack poor ideas.  I'm sorry if you keep supplying them.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 07:31:26 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 07:27:20 PM

It's worth noting the number of people in Trunmp's previous administration who suddenly talked about how they never actually planned to leave Afghanistan. Who cares?

At the end of the day, if we can actually get out of the country without starting some new conflict, Biden will have succeeded where Bush, Obama, and Trump failed.

For an obviously intelligent dude- it actually scares me that you believe this. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 07:31:41 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 21, 2021, 07:05:32 PM

so youre saying that when Trump made the deal to leave the procedure for the actual exit was always going to be what actually happened

not sure how any of this can be blamed on Trump but that wont stop folks from trying

Once Trump made the deal to leave, unless his successor was going to overturn it, it was going to be a strategic disaster.  Elements of the Afghan army almost immediately started making deals with the Taliban for the post-American future.  No matter how the exit went, it was going to be a strategic disaster.
Not overturning the Trump deal, plus the incompetent, chaotic exit, is on Biden, and that has led to the human catastrophe that is going on right now.
That's what I'm saying.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 07:32:09 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2021, 07:30:57 PM

I attack poor ideas.  I'm sorry if you keep supplying them. 

No. You attack forum members.  

If there was a rule about having bad ideas you would be for bidden from being here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 07:32:33 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 07:26:42 PM

Why was indefinite occupation unacceptable?  It was relatively cheap.  In the same universe as what it costs us to maintain 10 times as many troops in South Korea.
To say that ripping the band-aid off was the only solution is an example of all-or-nothing thinking.  It's letting the perfect be the enemy of the just good enough.
It was just good enough to keep the Taliban at bay and keep Afghanistan from being a great haven and staging base for international terrorism that it was in September 2001.
A mature great power accepts that there are limits to its power, but it doesn't adopt the attitude that if it can't achieve total victory then it will do nothing.  After 100-plus years as a great power, we are still immature, and want to pick up our toys and go home when we can't get everything we want.

"Cheap"

"Air operations by US forces and the Afghan Air Force (AAF) killed and injured over 600 civilians. On April 2, AAF helicopters strafed a madrasa graduation ceremony in northern Kunduz province, killing 30 children and injuring 51. An airstrike in Chardara district, Kunduz province in July, reportedly killed 14 members of one family, including five women and seven children aged 2 to 14. The US conducted only internal reviews of a limited number of incidents of civilian casualties, and did not carry out site visits or interview witnesses. The Afghan government carried out few internal reviews of incidents causing civilian casualties. During a six-day Taliban assault on Ghazni city, both insurgents and government security forces launched indiscriminate attacks in densely populated areas, killing and injuring more than 300 civilians."

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2019/country-chapters/afghanistan#

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 21, 2021, 07:32:44 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 06:29:18 PM

As Churchill said in Parliament after the Munich sellout of 1938, "You were given the choice between war and dishonor.  You chose dishonor, and you will have war.”

Winston could wax philosophical with the best of them,great statesman but had no business in a council of war - where he spent most of his time.I'm surprised Brooke or IKE didn't choke the living snot out of him. Just finished Winston's War by Max Hastings good/great book,before that I read Masters and Commanders by Andrew Roberts recommend both.I believe Winston was Bi-Polar very brilliant and base in the same breath

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2021, 07:32:47 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 07:31:26 PM

For an obviously intelligent dude- it actually scares me that you believe this.

A compliment from you is like being forced to watch a random person's baby be born from a few inches away.  
Oops, that wasn't an attack on your ideas.  
Sorry.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2021, 07:33:15 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 07:32:09 PM

No. You attack forum members. 

If there was a rule about having bad ideas you would be for bidden from being here

Tell us more about the invisible man in the sky.....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2021, 07:34:45 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 07:32:33 PM

"Cheap"

"Air operations by US forces and the Afghan Air Force (AAF) killed and injured over 600 civilians. On April 2, AAF helicopters strafed a madrasa graduation ceremony in northern Kunduz province, killing 30 children and injuring 51. An airstrike in Chardara district, Kunduz province in July, reportedly killed 14 members of one family, including five women and seven children aged 2 to 14. The US conducted only internal reviews of a limited number of incidents of civilian casualties, and did not carry out site visits or interview witnesses. The Afghan government carried out few internal reviews of incidents causing civilian casualties. During a six-day Taliban assault on Ghazni city, both insurgents and government security forces launched indiscriminate attacks in densely populated areas, killing and injuring more than 300 civilians."

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2019/country-chapters/afghanistan#

Shhhhhhhh.......only American lives matter........wait, unless you're a Democratic President withdrawing from another country, then suddenly they matter....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 21, 2021, 07:34:52 PM

There are legitimate arguments supporting both occupation, and withdrawal.  

There are no legitimate arguments for botching the withdrawal as badly as has happened.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 07:35:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2021, 07:33:15 PM

Tell us more about the invisible man in the sky.....

I have no idea what you’re talking about now.

But I was once told to never argue with an idiot because they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.  I should probably take that advice given it really applies to you but it’s just so fun beating you and proving you wrong and making you look silly when you do so much of that on your own

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2021, 07:36:08 PM

Again, you live in a fantasy world.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 07:38:06 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2021, 07:36:08 PM

Again, you live in a fantasy world. 

😂😂. Ok Fro. I bow to you version of the world. 
 I have learned a lot about what psychotic means from watching your posts so I should thank you for that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 07:41:20 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 21, 2021, 07:34:52 PM

There are legitimate arguments supporting both occupation, and withdrawal. 

There are no legitimate arguments for botching the withdrawal as badly as has happened.

My main problem is bombing kids doesn't get nearly the attention as making them wait in line to get on an airplane

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 07:41:23 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2021, 07:34:45 PM

Shhhhhhhh.......only American lives matter........wait, unless you're a Democratic President withdrawing from another country, then suddenly they matter....

Try to keep up Fro.  I know it’s hard because it is an adult conversation and you hang around with children all day.
The majority of this post has been talking about the people of Afghanistan being raped, beheaded, burned alive, tortured etc.
so the post you just wrote is, as usual, totally off base.   You just can’t help from looking at any situation to anything but your left leaning political eyes can you?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 07:43:49 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 07:26:42 PM

Why was indefinite occupation unacceptable?  It was relatively cheap.  In the same universe as what it costs us to maintain 10 times as many troops in South Korea.
To say that ripping the band-aid off was the only solution is an example of all-or-nothing thinking.  It's letting the perfect be the enemy of the just good enough.
It was just good enough to keep the Taliban at bay and keep Afghanistan from being a great haven and staging base for international terrorism that it was in September 2001.
A mature great power accepts that there are limits to its power, but it doesn't adopt the attitude that if it can't achieve total victory then it will do nothing.  After 100-plus years as a great power, we are still immature, and want to pick up our toys and go home when we can't get everything we want.

Amplifying on those points . . . .
Before the Civil War, the country was being torn apart in the debate over slavery.
The anti-slavery forces ranged from immediate abolitionists like William Lloyd Garrison, who wanted immediate freedom for the slaves, even if it meant dissolving the Union, to anti-slavery Democrats who were beginning to disagree with the mainstream of their party.  In between were moderate anti-slavery advocates like Abraham Lincoln.  Lincoln saw slavery as an abomination and wanted it gone.  But he didn't want it gone only in the North, which is what it would have been had Garrison had his way.  He wanted it eliminated while keeping the Union intact.  He used a couple of metaphors to describe the difficulty in getting rid of it and also the danger of trying to eliminate  it immediately.
One of his metaphors was a rattlesnake in a crib with a baby.  Whaling away at the rattlesnake will likely result in it biting and killing the baby.  So you have to be patient and try to coax the snake out of the crib without harming the baby.
The other metaphor was to a cancer--he called it a wen--on a person's body.  If you cut it out, you will bleed to death.  So you live with it while you try to find a treatment that will gradually get rid of it.
Neither of those is a particularly good analogy with Afghanistan.  But they illustrate that sometimes the "rip off the band-aid" solution is not the best one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 07:45:49 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 07:41:20 PM

My main problem is bombing kids doesn't get nearly the attention as making them wait in line to get on an airplane

Or watching their sister be raped, their father shot, their uncle beheaded.  Wait in line- come on Max.  Watch the real world.   
being so scared for your life- because the Americans abandoned you- that your willing to cling to a US AF plane to escape and then fall to your death. 
I guess if that is waiting in line to you then you’re just looking at this through tainted political spectacles. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 07:47:05 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 07:27:20 PM

It's worth noting the number of people in Trunmp's previous administration who suddenly talked about how they never actually planned to leave Afghanistan. Who cares?

They are lying.  What else is new?

Quote

At the end of the day, if we can actually get out of the country without starting some new conflict, Biden will have succeeded where Bush, Obama, and Trump failed.

No, he will have pushed through the easy political decision--no one in his base would oppose withdrawal--at the cost of America's national interests.
We are less safe in the world now than we were two weeks ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 07:50:04 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 21, 2021, 07:32:44 PM

Quote

As Churchill said in Parliament after the Munich sellout of 1938, "You were given the choice between war and dishonor.  You chose dishonor, and you will have war.”

Winston could wax philosophical with the best of them,great statesman but had no business in a council of war - where he spent most of his time.I'm surprised Brooke or IKE didn't choke the living snot out of him. Just finished Winston's War by Max Hastings good/great book,before that I read Masters and Commanders by Andrew Roberts recommend both.I believe Winston was Bi-Polar very brilliant and base in the same breath

All that notwithstanding, what he said was correct.  Chamberlain chose dishonor, and Britain got war exactly one year later.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 07:52:57 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 21, 2021, 07:45:49 PM

Or watching their sister be raped, their father shot, their uncle beheaded.  Wait in line- come on Max.  Watch the real world. 
being so scared for your life- because the Americans abandoned you- that your willing to cling to a US AF plane to escape and then fall to your death.
I guess if that is waiting in line to you then you’re just looking at this through tainted political spectacles.

Oh don't get me wrong - it is scary and disturbing. But I bristle at the idea that this was "botched" as if there was some easy way to do it. There has been an awful lot of things botched. For example, the war initially began over getting Bin Laden, something we didn't do for ten years. Well over 100K people have died during this war - the idea that we are suddenly out of our league is wrong. We were always out of our league.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 07:53:23 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 07:32:33 PM

"Cheap"

"Air operations by US forces and the Afghan Air Force (AAF) killed and injured over 600 civilians. On April 2, AAF helicopters strafed a madrasa graduation ceremony in northern Kunduz province, killing 30 children and injuring 51. An airstrike in Chardara district, Kunduz province in July, reportedly killed 14 members of one family, including five women and seven children aged 2 to 14. The US conducted only internal reviews of a limited number of incidents of civilian casualties, and did not carry out site visits or interview witnesses. The Afghan government carried out few internal reviews of incidents causing civilian casualties. During a six-day Taliban assault on Ghazni city, both insurgents and government security forces launched indiscriminate attacks in densely populated areas, killing and injuring more than 300 civilians."

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2019/country-chapters/afghanistan#

Cheap to us.  We had a purpose in being there, and we were paying a relatively cheap price to accomplish that purpose.
As for Afghan civilians, I imagine that the humanitarian toll will be far higher in our absence than with our presence.
It's not the case that Afghanistan is going to become a Garden of Eden now that the Taliban is taking over.  Retributions will be inflicted on everyone who opposed them, while every female in Afghanistan will revert to the status of property.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 07:53:57 PM

Quote

No, he will have pushed through the easy political decision--no one in his base would oppose withdrawal--at the cost of America's national interests.

We are less safe in the world now than we were two weeks ago.

I mean, who knows. It is something that the terror group we empowered by invading Iraq is now complicating our efforts to withdraw from Afghanistan. The self-defeating cycle.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 07:56:30 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 07:53:57 PM

I mean, who knows. It is something that the terror group we empowered by invading Iraq is now complicating our efforts to withdraw from Afghanistan. The self-defeating cycle.

To what terror group are you referring?

ISIS?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 07:56:44 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 07:56:30 PM

To what terror group are you referring?

ISIS

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 21, 2021, 07:58:06 PM

ISIS

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 08:04:03 PM

Any military response to the 9-11 attacks that was more than firing cruise missiles at an aspirin factory was going to provoke ("empower," if one wishes) a more violent response from the Islamists.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 21, 2021, 08:18:37 PM

spin number 1

It was always going to be this bad no matter who was calling the shots

spin number 2

everything thats happening is the result of a previous administration's screw ups

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 08:19:43 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 21, 2021, 08:18:37 PM

spin number 1

It was always going to be this bad no matter who was calling the shots

spin number 2

everything thats happening is the result of a previous administration's screw ups

Who's saying #2, 320?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 21, 2021, 08:21:46 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 08:19:43 PM

Who's saying #2, 320?

If it hasnt been said yet it will be

I could come up with several more spins but too lazy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 21, 2021, 08:24:32 PM

whats interesting is that even CNN is unloading on Biden

if Biden loses CNN he aint long for the office

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 21, 2021, 08:32:06 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 21, 2021, 08:24:32 PM

whats interesting is that even CNN is unloading on Biden

if Biden loses CNN he aint long for the office

I mean, they give them four years, traditionally

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 21, 2021, 08:33:53 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 21, 2021, 08:32:06 PM

I mean, they give them four years, traditionally

I know that why Im shocked

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 21, 2021, 08:37:28 PM

2 years is too many

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 21, 2021, 08:38:58 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 21, 2021, 08:32:06 PM

I mean, they give them four years, traditionally

The Dems yes,Biden sorry a drunken Abe Vigoda would make more sense

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 21, 2021, 09:05:02 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/s720x720/239411847_10158252601057541_3741172529569650936_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=arRs-FwfpWQAX9MQeCF&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=607d0732b9b758d0e4f3607e0d90379a&oe=61271497)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 21, 2021, 09:06:38 PM

thats pretty good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 21, 2021, 09:15:14 PM

b cause it's the shameful truth

nothing to be proud of

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2021, 10:10:05 PM

Crap

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 10:12:17 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 21, 2021, 08:32:06 PM

I mean, they give them four years, traditionally

There was talk on the Trump side during the campaign that Biden wouldn't last four years, so a vote for him was a vote for Kamala Harris to be POTUS.
Could turn out to be true.
My MIL thinks that if Biden stepped down, Trump would be reinstalled in office.
She's 89 and not thinking very clearly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 10:17:04 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 08:04:03 PM

Any military response to the 9-11 attacks that was more than firing cruise missiles at an aspirin factory was going to provoke ("empower," if one wishes) a more violent response from the Islamists.

They weren't empowered because we responded. They were empowered because we destroyed the Iraqi government and there was no local power to hold them in check.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 10:18:23 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 10:17:04 PM

They weren't empowered because we responded. They were empowered because we destroyed the Iraqi government and there was no local power to hold them in check.

OK.

So how does that mean that we shouldn't have stayed longer in Afghanistan?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 10:57:30 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 21, 2021, 10:18:23 PM

OK.

So how does that mean that we shouldn't have stayed longer in Afghanistan?

It doesn't, though trying to predict the results of political upheaval is fraught with many errors. Political stability in the region is good, even if the forum it comes in is offensive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 21, 2021, 10:59:04 PM

WASHINGTON—Declaring that every affluent child in America has the right to a well-balanced brunch, the U.S. Department of Agriculture announced the launch of a $40 million school brunch program aimed at distributing brioche french toast and smoked salmon to the nation’s richest school districts. “We found that 70 percent of students in wealthy communities were not receiving their recommended allowance of eggs Benedict and fresh-squeezed orange juice,” Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack told reporters Friday. “Quite simply, we believe all children of privilege deserve a proper, well-composed brunch plate with complimentary jalapeno cornbread mini muffins and honey butter on the side. With this new program, we can finally begin to offer the superior culinary experience that until now has been sorely missing in school cafeterias from Greenwich, CT to Palo Alto, CA.” Department officials said that if its brunch program proves successful, they remain open to the possibility of spending an additional $80 million annually to add live jazz music.

https://www.theonion.com/usda-rolls-out-new-school-brunch-program-for-wealthier-1819574886?utm_campaign=SF&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_content=Main&utm_source=Twitter&fbclid=IwAR0PkQX62u9GTPQHp6Yejg8DdxvBlxi91ivLFHSPv9RVpWFzyc5G7wXJ1mo (https://www.theonion.com/usda-rolls-out-new-school-brunch-program-for-wealthier-1819574886?utm_campaign=SF&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_content=Main&utm_source=Twitter&fbclid=IwAR0PkQX62u9GTPQHp6Yejg8DdxvBlxi91ivLFHSPv9RVpWFzyc5G7wXJ1mo)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 21, 2021, 11:01:34 PM

nice onion piece

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 22, 2021, 12:05:35 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 10:57:30 PM

It doesn't, though trying to predict the results of political upheaval is fraught with many errors. Political stability in the region is good, even if the forum it comes in is offensive.

That's easy for us to say when it's other people who will suffer from the offensive form of stability.  Why are American liberals silent on the human rights crisis that is beginning?
And that issue doesn't even deal with the fact that we have, on a world stage, tucked our tails and run, abandoning our commitments and our allies.  The leaders in countries hostile to ours--like Russia and China--certainly have not failed to take note.
U.S. promises to defend friendly states are less of a deterrent to Russian expansion in the Baltic states or in Georgia or Ukraine than they were two weeks ago.  India now has to watch its southern and western borders more carefully, and can be less of a help in deterring Chinese aggression.  Jihadist movements everywhere are emboldened.  It is a great strategic failure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 22, 2021, 12:12:37 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 21, 2021, 08:21:46 PM

If it hasnt been said yet it will be

I could come up with several more spins but too lazy

So you're calling out things no one is even saying because you're sure someone will say it?  Do you not see how crazy that is?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 22, 2021, 12:15:30 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 21, 2021, 09:05:02 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/s720x720/239411847_10158252601057541_3741172529569650936_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=arRs-FwfpWQAX9MQeCF&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=607d0732b9b758d0e4f3607e0d90379a&oe=61271497)

Is this in regards to the 2016 presidential election?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 22, 2021, 07:40:04 AM

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/columnists/nolan-finley/2021/08/21/finley-biden-creates-leadership-void/8192356002/?utm_source=detroitnews-Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily_briefing&utm_term=list_article_thumb&utm_content=1008DN-E-NLETTER65

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 22, 2021, 07:44:44 AM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 22, 2021, 12:05:35 AM

That's easy for us to say when it's other people who will suffer from the offensive form of stability.  Why are American liberals silent on the human rights crisis that is beginning?
And that issue doesn't even deal with the fact that we have, on a world stage, tucked our tails and run, abandoning our commitments and our allies.  The leaders in countries hostile to ours--like Russia and China--certainly have not failed to take note.
U.S. promises to defend friendly states are less of a deterrent to Russian expansion in the Baltic states or in Georgia or Ukraine than they were two weeks ago.  India now has to watch its southern and western borders more carefully, and can be less of a help in deterring Chinese aggression.  Jihadist movements everywhere are emboldened.  It is a great strategic failure.

Post of the month.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 22, 2021, 07:49:30 AM

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/imbecilic-tony-blair-slams-afghanistan-withdrawal/ar-AANA6zL


Sounds like the real world.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 22, 2021, 07:50:27 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 21, 2021, 05:37:35 PM

The plan was for the Afghan "army" we built and financed to hold off the Taliban for a few weeks. That was obviously a misstep. Would have been better off forgiving student loans.

I'm not up for bailing out rich white kids who got crap degrees.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 22, 2021, 08:15:31 AM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 22, 2021, 12:05:35 AM

That's easy for us to say when it's other people who will suffer from the offensive form of stability.  Why are American liberals silent on the human rights crisis that is beginning?
And that issue doesn't even deal with the fact that we have, on a world stage, tucked our tails and run, abandoning our commitments and our allies.  The leaders in countries hostile to ours--like Russia and China--certainly have not failed to take note.
U.S. promises to defend friendly states are less of a deterrent to Russian expansion in the Baltic states or in Georgia or Ukraine than they were two weeks ago.  India now has to watch its southern and western borders more carefully, and can be less of a help in deterring Chinese aggression.  Jihadist movements everywhere are emboldened.  It is a great strategic failure.

Is there a wide difference between the Taliban, supposedly our sworn enemy, and Saudi Arabia, one of of our bigger allies in the region, in how they treat women and or other social issues? Not especially. In fact, Saudi Arabia assassinated a progressive who wrote for the Washington Times. Our response was basically to do nothing. While we could napalm the country, I don't think that would be that helpful to women in the region, nor impress any other country. To the extent that other countries want us to be invading and whatnot, I'm not sure that is really the case.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 22, 2021, 08:16:03 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 22, 2021, 07:50:27 AM

I'm not up for bailing out rich white kids who got crap degrees.

Better than sending them to another country to start a civil war and then lose.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 22, 2021, 08:35:20 AM

Bad ideas abound.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 22, 2021, 09:37:27 AM

President Joe Biden told key allies in June that he would maintain enough of a security presence in Afghanistan to ensure they could continue to operate in the capital following the main U.S. withdrawal, a vow made before the Taliban’s rapid final push across the country, according to a British diplomatic memo seen by Bloomberg. 


Biden promised U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson and other leaders at the Group of Seven summit in Cornwall, England, that “critical U.S. enablers” would remain in place to keep Kabul safe following the drawdown of NATO forces, the note said. British officials determined the U.S. would provide enough personnel to ensure that the U.K. embassy in Kabul could continue operating.


Biden Gave Allies Security Assurance on Kabul, Afghanistan in June - Bloomberg (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-20/biden-assured-allies-in-june-u-s-would-ensure-kabul-s-stability)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 22, 2021, 09:39:26 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 22, 2021, 12:15:30 AM

Is this in regards to the 2016 presidential election? 

And the 2012 election.

And the 2008 election.

And the 2004 election...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 22, 2021, 09:40:06 AM

a politician broke a promise??

shocking

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 22, 2021, 09:41:51 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 22, 2021, 09:39:26 AM

And the 2012 election.

And the 2008 election.

And the 2004 election...

wasn't my intent to be political at all
not sure about the cartoonist
misinformation comes from politicians and others - many times politically motivated, of course

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 22, 2021, 09:43:51 AM

It's okay FearlessFrankie, this is the politics thread.

Apparently.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 22, 2021, 09:44:45 AM

Policy thread. Tough to separate, yes, but I believe in us.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 22, 2021, 09:45:53 AM

it's also Okay to think of some things w/o a political slant

harder for some folks than others

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 22, 2021, 09:49:31 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 22, 2021, 09:45:53 AM

it's also Okay to think of some things w/o a political slant

harder for some folks than others

Right. Forget the names.

Foreign policy in that part of the world has absolutely sucked for a long time. Longer than some of us have been alive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 22, 2021, 10:00:44 AM

all of us

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 22, 2021, 12:01:24 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 22, 2021, 08:15:31 AM

Is there a wide difference between the Taliban, supposedly our sworn enemy, and Saudi Arabia, one of of our bigger allies in the region, in how they treat women and or other social issues? Not especially. In fact, Saudi Arabia assassinated a progressive who wrote for the Washington Times. Our response was basically to do nothing. While we could napalm the country, I don't think that would be that helpful to women in the region, nor impress any other country. To the extent that other countries want us to be invading and whatnot, I'm not sure that is really the case.

It seems like you are assuming that we have the freedom of action to break relations with any country we don't like.  We don't.
The world is a dangerous, complicated place.  If foreign relations were just a matter of being friendly with nice liberal democracies and shunning everyone else, we would hardly need any foreign policy expertise at all.
So we maintain friendly relations with repressive autocracies like Saudi Arabia.  If oil were as commonplace as water, we would not need to do that, but it isn't, so we do.  We nudge the Saudis on human rights, but we don't accomplish a lot.
Afghanistan is a completely different situation.  Our primary interest there is keeping it from becoming a haven for terrorists.  The way we have tried to do this has involved trying to uplift human rights and democratic institutions.  We accomplished some good.  Females in Afghanistan over the last 20 years have made tremendous progress.  They have moved into the 19th or 20th century.  Now they will be forced back into the Dark Ages.  They will effectively be property of men.
So our failure has been a dual one.  We have failed in our strategic goal to keep Afghanistan from becoming a haven for Islamist terrorists.  We have failed to preserve the human rights that we introduced to Afghanistan and we have failed to protect those who bought in to what we were trying to do.
It's a disaster.
Everything that is wrong with Saudi Arabia doesn't really have anything to do with what a disaster we have suffered in Afghanistan.
It's just "whatabout" stuff, like what we see in politics every day.
Supporter of X: Look at what a slimy piece of crap Y is!
Supporter of Y: Yeah, but what about all the stupid stuff X has done?!
It just works to keep us diverted from what we need to know and ought to do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 22, 2021, 12:11:49 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 22, 2021, 09:39:26 AM

And the 2012 election.

And the 2008 election.

And the 2004 election...

I was specifying the one the Russians influenced.  With the topic of the cartoon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 22, 2021, 12:48:24 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 22, 2021, 09:45:53 AM

it's also Okay to think of some things w/o a political slant

harder for some folks than others

Ed Zachery, even though I like a Keg Party more than say a Democratic or Republican one folks all go getting politically correct or repressed or what ever. God forbid I should say it's Miller Time then some bent freak millennial snowflake starts pontificating on the nuances of the cleaning vinegar called IPA's that should have long ago been relegated to the dust pile of Zymurgist History,sheesh. I need a Reality Czech Pilsner just thinking about it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 22, 2021, 12:59:03 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 22, 2021, 12:11:49 PM

I was specifying the one the Russians influenced.  With the topic of the cartoon.

(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/161231205229-new-years-eve-anderson-cooper-kathy-griffin-puppets-sot-00003908.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 22, 2021, 01:07:47 PM

In other news, Whoa Nellie just made its 300th order!  Still averaging $65 per order over 2 years, this Sept.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 22, 2021, 03:01:04 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 22, 2021, 01:07:47 PM

In other news, Whoa Nellie just made its 300th order!  Still averaging $65 per order over 2 years, this Sept. 

That's really cool.  Any recent purchases from the state of Texas?  I posted a link to your game web site on surlyhorns a couple of months ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 22, 2021, 04:39:55 PM

Drove over to the new Westside Reservoir Park today, interesting place and location.  It's an old granite quarry they filled with water as an emergency water supply for the city.  I'm amazed how much empty land is over that way inside the city limits, I think development will be fast and furious soon.  With a bit of money they would extend the MARTA line one more stop to link up, and the Beltline Trail is next door as well.

(https://i.imgur.com/F7vT8M3.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 22, 2021, 04:41:27 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/gxVArzT.jpg)

They bored a five mile tunnel from the river to fill this up.  It's maybe five miles from downtown, about three from our place, as a crow would fly, but it's confusing to drive there, I got lost again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 22, 2021, 04:47:35 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 22, 2021, 03:01:04 PM

That's really cool.  Any recent purchases from the state of Texas?  I posted a link to your game web site on surlyhorns a couple of months ago.

There's one from Katy, TX.
Others:  LA and Hollywood, OH, MI, South Bend, Milwaukee, the UK, IL, LA the state

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 22, 2021, 04:50:18 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 22, 2021, 04:47:35 PM

There's one from Katy, TX.
Others:  LA and Hollywood, OH, MI, South Bend, Milwaukee, the UK, IL, LA the state

What's the link to your game website?  I'll post it on an OU board I frequent.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 22, 2021, 07:53:24 PM

https://whoanelliecollegefootball.com/

T (https://whoanelliecollegefootball.com/)hanks.
And thanks to Drew....for everything.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 22, 2021, 08:11:35 PM

No sweat, OAM.  I hope you get a new customer or two.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2021, 09:29:35 AM

By U.S. Census Bureau standards, the population of the Atlanta region spreads across a metropolitan area of 8,376 square miles (21,694 km²) – a land area comparable to that of Massachusetts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2021, 09:35:02 AM

Massachusetts population in 2021 is estimated to be 7.1 million, ranks 15th populous state of United States. Its area is 10,565 sq miles (27,337 sq km), ranks 44th largest by area.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2021, 09:38:38 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/dattcWM.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2021, 09:42:12 AM

for all the folks scrambling to get out of NYC, Chicago, and Cali, plenty left behind

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2021, 11:55:13 AM

If you need to drive around the north side of Atlanta, do it after midnight and before 5 AM.  This interchange is being rebuilt and it's already a mess, now they are closing off four lane of traffic on I-285.

I-285 overhaul project is about to create an epic traffic cluster | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/interstate-285-400-construction-perimeter-project-gdot-transportation)

(https://i.imgur.com/AgjZZw6.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 23, 2021, 12:00:12 PM

In other news... Specifically my phone's news feed...

I have three headlines from "The Spun", whatever that is, that showed up all almost right on top of each other:

• Sports Media World Reacts To The Bob Costas News
• College Football World Reacts To The Lee Corso News
• Sports Media World Reacts To The Stephen A Smith News

Really? 

I don't care if the three of them are caught up in a homosexual love triangle that resulted in double murder suicide. I'm not clicking your clickbait headlines, The Spun...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2021, 12:05:43 PM

Well, I don't care about who reacts to whatever the news is, just spit out the news.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 23, 2021, 05:03:07 PM

Mmm... Burger night last night...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 23, 2021, 05:10:43 PM

Looks great, what kind of bun is that... brioche?  Looks fancy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 23, 2021, 05:17:34 PM

Brioche seems to be the bun of choice for upscale burgers these days.

Adds a lot of calories. Other than that, no drawback.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2021, 05:30:46 PM

my daughter and I had Ruben burgers the other night at a small town pub

(https://i.imgur.com/WnastL7.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/MAzGNhZ.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 23, 2021, 05:40:50 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 23, 2021, 05:10:43 PM

Looks great, what kind of bun is that... brioche?  Looks fancy.

Yes, brioche.

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 23, 2021, 05:17:34 PM

Brioche seems to be the bun of choice for upscale burgers these days.

Adds a lot of calories. Other than that, no drawback.

I tend to like a more sturdy bun... Brioche can almost disintegrate as you try to eat the burger. Anthony Bourdain was against them on burgers, for that reason.

That said, I put the burger on whatever bun the queen wants, and she wanted brioche. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 23, 2021, 05:46:28 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 23, 2021, 05:40:50 PM

Yes, brioche.
I tend to like a more sturdy bun... Brioche can almost disintegrate as you try to eat the burger. Anthony Bourdain was against them on burgers, for that reason.

That said, I put the burger on whatever bun the queen wants, and she wanted brioche.

😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 23, 2021, 06:12:16 PM

Toasted Keiser rolls work pretty well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 23, 2021, 06:52:50 PM

Spent Fri/Sat in Colorado. My mom's doing a lot better. She's been moved from the hospital back to a SNF and she's already lost a good 20+ lbs of the 40 lbs of fluid weight that she had gained. After a very scary time about two weeks ago, I feel like we're out of the woods. Given her many health issues, I don't know how much longer she'll be with us, but at least the impending threat is no more. 

Only got to spend about 1 1/2 hours with her on Fri, and 2 1/2 on Sat, as she has limited energy right now. So that meant that my wife and I got to spend the rest of the time taking care of my dad, who has been under obviously a ton of stress. I think we did a good job of keeping his mind off of everything. 

On Sat night we decided to cook for him, and my sister and her family showed up too. We bought everything we needed for quite a meal, and then I went to go light my dad's grill... And saw about 4 hornet nests in the grill as soon as I lifted the lid... That was... unexpected. I guess he hadn't used the grill in quite some time. 

So after burning the hell out of some hornet nests, and dodging hornets as I grilled tri tip and corn on the cob for esquites, we ended up with quite a feast. 

Plied my dad with more wine than mom would ever let him have lol, and I think he appreciated a weekend to just be taken care of. 

Good to see both my mom and dad, who I haven't seen since Dec 2019 before the pandemic. Good to see my sister and her family, who I haven't seen since Oct 2018. 

If it's possible, the plan is to put together a party for my parents 50th anniversary next April. So hopefully my mom uses that as motivation for her PT...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 23, 2021, 07:14:28 PM

Thats great news beta

glad she is doing better

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 23, 2021, 08:33:42 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 23, 2021, 12:00:12 PM

In other news... Specifically my phone's news feed...

I have three headlines from "The Spun", whatever that is, that showed up all almost right on top of each other:

• Sports Media World Reacts To The Bob Costas News
• College Football World Reacts To The Lee Corso News
• Sports Media World Reacts To The Stephen A Smith News

Really?

I don't care if the three of them are caught up in a homosexual love triangle that resulted in double murder suicide. I'm not clicking your clickbait headlines, The Spun...

It's as bad as the Facebook 'news' headlines.
I'm proud to say that I no longer know who in the hell they're talking about "wore a daring leopard print bikini" or whatever.  I don't care.  No one cares.  Wait - no one of substance cares.  FFS.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 23, 2021, 09:44:27 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 23, 2021, 12:00:12 PM

In other news... Specifically my phone's news feed...

I have three headlines from "The Spun", whatever that is, that showed up all almost right on top of each other:

• Sports Media World Reacts To The Bob Costas News
• College Football World Reacts To The Lee Corso News
• Sports Media World Reacts To The Stephen A Smith News

Really?

I don't care if the three of them are caught up in a homosexual love triangle that resulted in double murder suicide. I'm not clicking your clickbait headlines, The Spun...

Oooo, the Spun is like extra hot fire garbage. And even worst, the husk of what was once SI now lends its name to that crap. Sad damn state. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 23, 2021, 09:45:01 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 23, 2021, 06:52:50 PM

So after burning the hell out of some hornet nests, and dodging hornets as I grilled tri tip and corn on the cob for esquites, we ended up with quite a feast.

I've never spiced a meal with Hornets, but always a first time for things. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 23, 2021, 09:51:58 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 23, 2021, 09:45:01 PM

I've never spiced a meal with Hornets, but always a first time for things.

Noma has been recognized as the best restaurant in the world, and serves shrimp seasoned with ants. So why not tri-tip seasoned with hornets?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2021, 10:14:01 PM

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61U7W7c2lOS._SL1365_.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2021, 05:59:15 AM

No.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2021, 07:49:48 AM

didn't know grasshopper salt was a thing until CD posted about the fancy upscale Mexican joint and I checked the menu

gotta be superb on the rim of a margarita or Bloody

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 24, 2021, 08:05:51 AM

Keep some dried grasshoppers in your bag when walking 18 to munch on

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 24, 2021, 08:21:26 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 24, 2021, 08:05:51 AM

Keep some dried grasshoppers in your bag when walking 18 to munch on

Dip them in your beer. Perfect snack

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2021, 08:54:54 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 24, 2021, 07:49:48 AM

didn't know grasshopper salt was a thing until CD posted about the fancy upscale Mexican joint and I checked the menu

gotta be superb on the rim of a margarita or Bloody

We had one mixed drink with something on the rim, it wasn't bad.  Fortunately, we decided the place isn't worth the traffic struggle.

Going to Miller Union Wednesday which Atlanta Magazine had at Numero Uno (southern farm to table style apparently).  Not too expensive relatively.  Might get the quail, what think?

Dine-in Dinner Menu – Miller Union
 (https://millerunion.com/dine-in-dinner-menu/)
seafood chowder, crab, clams, andouille, potato, corn, fennel, dill, grilled bread …. 27
grouper fillet, snap beans, spaghetti squash, vidalia, almond, sauce vierge …. 25
roast chicken, tomato-yogurt curry, benne seed, field peas, eggplant, shishito …. 27
barbecue quail, carolina gold rice, okra, corn & tomato maque choux ….28
grilled pork chop, sweet corn & butterbean succotash, roasted figs …. 25
grass-fed flank steak, peanut romesco, potato, grilled cabbage, sweet peppers …. 29
seasonal vegetable plate …. 24

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 24, 2021, 09:01:51 AM

A grasshopper walks into a bar, the bartender looks up and says, "Hey, we've got a drink named after you!"

Grasshopper pauses, scratches its head, and says, "You've got a drink named Murray?"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 24, 2021, 09:04:55 AM

It's open mic nite a the trailer park 😎

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2021, 09:16:26 AM

My wife asked me if I'd get remarried if she passed away.  I said "Probably not." She indicated she'd like me to, so I said "OK".

"Would you stay in the condo?"

"Yes, I like it here."

"Would you sleep in our bed?"

"Well, I guess, this is a great bed."

"Would you let her use my golf clubs?"

"Um, no, she's left handed."

She won't talk to me now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 24, 2021, 09:22:28 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 24, 2021, 09:01:51 AM

A grasshopper walks into a bar, the bartender looks up and says, "Hey, we've got a drink named after you!"

Grasshopper pauses, scratches its head, and says, "You've got a drink named Murray?"

😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 24, 2021, 09:23:00 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 24, 2021, 09:16:26 AM

My wife asked me if I'd get remarried if she passed away.  I said "Probably not." She indicated she'd like me to, so I said "OK".

"Would you stay in the condo?"

"Yes, I like it here."

"Would you sleep in our bed?"

"Well, I guess, this is a great bed."

"Would you let her use my golf clubs?"

"Um, no, she's left handed."

She won't talk to me now.

😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 24, 2021, 09:32:26 AM

one of my favorite Peter Sellers clips

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnXtuktNdlM

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 24, 2021, 09:41:22 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 24, 2021, 09:32:26 AM

one of my favorite Peter Sellers clips

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnXtuktNdlM

Classic.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 24, 2021, 09:45:20 AM

I think that's the same Clouseau movie that he's exercising on the parallel bars and dismounts and goes straight down the staircase - it was funny,gets up and acts like nothing is wrong.The Pink Panther series should be in the favorite flix catagory

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 24, 2021, 09:52:28 AM

This is the one youre thinking of

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64yianfGvzc&t=2s

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2021, 09:56:39 AM

Weather forecast here is 92°F today and 91°F tomorrow and then now more 90s.  I hope.

We haven't reached 94°F this summer, and didn't last year either, so it's been decent.

Football weather up ahead, and football season.  yay.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 24, 2021, 10:05:47 AM

Hoping to go one more day without air conditioning here... Supposed to be a high of 84, which is about 3 degrees over my "no a/c limit", but I'm going to wait and see if it gets there.

Starting tomorrow, the 10-day shows high 80s to low 90s every day. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 24, 2021, 10:09:49 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 24, 2021, 10:05:47 AM

Hoping to go one more day without air conditioning here... Supposed to be a high of 84, which is about 3 degrees over my "no a/c limit", but I'm going to wait and see if it gets there.

Starting tomorrow, the 10-day shows high 80s to low 90s every day.

You made it all the way to late August without AC, and you are throwing in the towel now? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2021, 10:11:35 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/erLnqRA.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 24, 2021, 11:19:36 AM

We could very well have temps well in excess of 90*F all the way into October.  Even if the temp dips into the 80's we still need A/C due to the humidity.  It's not unusual to run the AC periodically into November and December, some days switching between heat and AC.  

I always wanted to live somewhere that had a true 4 seasons, with a longer spring and fall.  I would trade ~10*F of summer heat for a little colder winters.  I don't mind winters really, I handle the cold OK.  Got down to ~11*F here during Freezemageddon and I worked outside all day for several days.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 24, 2021, 11:21:26 AM

I hate winter and don't give a rip about 4 seasons.  I'd love to move somewhere tropical where it never gets below the 60s.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 24, 2021, 11:23:04 AM

Quote from: Gigem on August 24, 2021, 11:19:36 AM

We could very well have temps well in excess of 90*F all the way into October.  Even if the temp dips into the 80's we still need A/C due to the humidity.  It's not unusual to run the AC periodically into November and December, some days switching between heat and AC. 

I always wanted to live somewhere that had a true 4 seasons, with a longer spring and fall.  I would trade ~10*F of summer heat for a little colder winters.  I don't mind winters really, I handle the cold OK.  Got down to ~11*F here during Freezemageddon and I worked outside all day for several days. 

prefer heat to cold

its now August what do you expect

Ive seen much warmer summers then this one

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 24, 2021, 11:32:48 AM

It is amazing how dependent many humans are on climate control, considering it is a rather modern invention. 

If you turn it off altogether it takes a day or three to get used to it, and then you don't even notice. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 24, 2021, 11:33:56 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on August 24, 2021, 10:09:49 AM

You made it all the way to late August without AC, and you are throwing in the towel now?

No, I had a stretch through July and August already where the AC needed to be run. 

We just had a week of reprieve (a lot of which was missed because I was in CO) from the heat, so I've had it turned off. 

I'm in a house built in the 70s with little in the way of insulation and drafty windows. Normal electric bill is $100/mo. The last one (just a little AC needed) was $250. Trying to keep this month's under $400. All for 1200sf. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 24, 2021, 11:35:40 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on August 24, 2021, 11:32:48 AM

It is amazing how dependent many humans are on climate control, considering it is a rather modern invention.

If you turn it off altogether it takes a day or three to get used to it, and then you don't even notice.

I generally don't use climate control 10 1/2 months of the year. And that includes the "winter", where it basically never gets cold enough in SoCal to turn on the heat. 

But I don't particularly want to get used to 90 degrees in my house. Plus it would be mean to the dog. He needs the AC, so I get to benefit too... :72:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2021, 11:43:03 AM

Quote from: Gigem on August 24, 2021, 11:19:36 AM

We could very well have temps well in excess of 90*F all the way into October.  Even if the temp dips into the 80's we still need A/C due to the humidity.  It's not unusual to run the AC periodically into November and December, some days switching between heat and AC. 

I always wanted to live somewhere that had a true 4 seasons, with a longer spring and fall.  I would trade ~10*F of summer heat for a little colder winters.  I don't mind winters really, I handle the cold OK.  Got down to ~11*F here during Freezemageddon and I worked outside all day for several days. 

Where I come from, Spring lasts like 4 minutes, and you go from snow to 80 like.. RIGHT NOW. And then you go back to snow. Screw that.

Fall is a bit better, but snow in October sucks. Screw that too.

Then winter... You don't see the sun but for a few days, from November through March. Double screw that.

I suppose a place like Nashville would be a good spot for you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 24, 2021, 11:48:00 AM

Run a bandanna under cold water, and wear it on your head. 

You'll be "cutting glass" in a matter of minutes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 24, 2021, 12:04:17 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on August 24, 2021, 11:32:48 AM

It is amazing how dependent many humans are on climate control, considering it is a rather modern invention.

If you turn it off altogether it takes a day or three to get used to it, and then you don't even notice.

grew up in a house without central air

the only place our schools had air conditioning was the cafeteria and the teachers lounge

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 24, 2021, 12:07:02 PM

Heading to very north of Minnesota next week for a week of Muskie/Walleye/Smallmouth fishing.

Looks like highs of 75 ish and lows of 50ish. A nice reprieve from the 95° and 90% humidity in Florida right now.

Then my annual northern Michigan trip for golf with my high school/football buddies the following week so more of the same.

Have not taken much vacation time this year so it will be nice to get away and off the grid a little bit.

PS:   I called ahead to the fishing lodge to ensure they’re going to have the golfers and buckeyes on Thursday evening.  I think that’s going to be a humdinger.   Unfortunately I will be missing the big one against Oregon the following week because I will be out on the golf course so I will have to rely on text updates from my better half.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2021, 12:07:18 PM

Same here. No AC until Jr. High, then no AC in HS, AC at Juco, no AC at Madison.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2021, 12:07:55 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 24, 2021, 12:07:02 PM

Heading to very north of Minnesota next week for a week of Muskie/Walleye/Smallmouth fishing.

Looks like highs of 75 ish and lows of 50ish. A nice reprieve from the 95° and 90% humidity in Florida right now.

Then my annual northern Michigan trip for golf with my high school/football buddies the following week so more of the same.

Have not taken much vacation time this year so it will be nice to get away and off the grid a little bit.

Watch out for the Minnesota State Bird.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 24, 2021, 12:10:22 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2021, 12:07:55 PM

Watch out for the Minnesota State Bird.

Love those loons!  

this trip would actually be deep into Canada if it was not for the Covid restrictions of getting into an out of Canada.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 24, 2021, 12:14:10 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2021, 12:07:18 PM

Same here. No AC until Jr. High, then no AC in HS, AC at Juco, no AC at Madison.

Eh, no real need for AC in Madison (or West Lafayette). A couple weeks at the beginning of the fall semester might be a little toasty, but the rest of the school year you'd have more need for heat than AC. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 24, 2021, 01:16:33 PM

A lot of wealthy Ohioans had summer cottages up on Put In Bay, and there wasn't any AC anywhere on the entire island. They were all used to it even though it was sweltering and humid as Hell. They'd make fun of their guests when we'd come up for a weekend and be just dying of the heat the entire time. 

Vermont was the same way, only there it was only hot in July. So they'd just sweat it out for a month, and the that would be the end of it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2021, 01:34:38 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/iR82F0n.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 24, 2021, 01:36:44 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 24, 2021, 01:34:38 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/iR82F0n.jpg)

What the hell kind of mutant flowers are those?!?!

Someone alert the Navy--gonna need to dispatch a carrier battle group to take those out!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 24, 2021, 01:42:46 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 24, 2021, 12:04:17 PM

grew up in a house without central air

the only place our schools had air conditioning was the cafeteria and the teachers lounge

We had A/C in our schools and our home, while I was growing up.

But I had no A/C in my on-campus dorm my freshman year at UT.  It was warm.  Downright hot even, in September and May.  But livable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 24, 2021, 01:53:05 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 24, 2021, 01:42:46 PM

We had A/C in our schools and our home, while I was growing up.

But I had no A/C in my on-campus dorm my freshman year at UT.  It was warm.  Downright hot even, in September and May.  But livable.

7 years down the drain

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 24, 2021, 01:53:23 PM

It might be possible that the process of the PoA all began with climate control. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2021, 02:04:04 PM

I find AC useful down here.  Ha.  We were out and about today and it was hot. We had lunch at the botanical garden on their patio, there was a slight breeze and shade.

I was about 8 when I asked my mom how a refrigerator worked.  I should have asked about a Thermos bottle.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2021, 02:23:40 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on August 24, 2021, 01:53:23 PM

It might be possible that the process of the PoA all began with climate control.

Nah.

(https://i.imgur.com/G1tTgVY.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2021, 02:25:40 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 24, 2021, 12:14:10 PM

Eh, no real need for AC in Madison (or West Lafayette). A couple weeks at the beginning of the fall semester might be a little toasty, but the rest of the school year you'd have more need for heat than AC.

On the fourth floor of the civil engineering building up until October and starting again in April, with the sun beating on the black roof... Same in the Ag Engineering building.

Taking exams and sweating on the answer sheet sucks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 24, 2021, 04:28:03 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 24, 2021, 12:14:10 PM

Eh, no real need for AC in Madison (or West Lafayette). A couple weeks at the beginning of the fall semester might be a little toasty, but the rest of the school year you'd have more need for heat than AC.

I found Madison summers highly muggy and didn’t mind AC. The data says it almost never got above 90, but I swear it got toasty. 

Then I came South of the Mason-Dixon and good gosh almighty. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 24, 2021, 04:31:01 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on August 24, 2021, 01:53:23 PM

It might be possible that the process of the PoA all began with climate control.

Nah, just a rolling process. Every generation thinks it’s more special than they one that comes after (and when it’s young, thinks it’s more special than the one that came before)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 24, 2021, 04:40:08 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2021, 11:43:03 AM

Where I come from, Spring lasts like 4 minutes, and you go from snow to 80 like.. RIGHT NOW. And then you go back to snow. Screw that.

Fall is a bit better, but snow in October sucks. Screw that too.

Then winter... You don't see the sun but for a few days, from November through March. Double screw that.

I suppose a place like Nashville would be a good spot for you.

But man, Madison spring, that’s a great 3 weeks.

I grew up without real seasons. Cool but not downright cold winters. Dry summers that didn’t get too hot. Brisk and cool every morning. Always for that (there were fewer weird forest fires back then)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2021, 05:04:43 PM

Each morning I bring up my weather report, and every day this week Atlanta has had lower Ts than Cincy, and lower RH as well, and that is not unusual I find.  Summers here just last longer than there.

Right now it's 95°F and 45% RH in both places, oddly enough, I think today is the hottest it's been all summer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 24, 2021, 05:07:20 PM

We've only broken 100 3x this entire summer, it's been very mild.

Currently it's 97 and 39%.  This is about the hottest we'll see this week, with temps dropping to the lower 90s later in the week.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2021, 05:15:59 PM

Highest Atlanta temperatures in recent yearsMax °FDateMax °C96
August 09, 2020  100
August 13, 2019    95
September 15, 18  94
July 26, 2017      100
June 25, 2016      97
August 04, 2015  95
August 07, 2014  92
August 29, 2013 106
June 30, 2012      99
August 26, 2011  97
July 23, 2010      97

I don't remember 100°F last year. 

• 1980 was the hottest summer on record in Atlanta, Georgia with an average temperature of 82.6 F. 16 daily 
  high temperature records were broken during the year and still stand today. 

  
  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 24, 2021, 05:57:47 PM

I broke. Turned on the AC.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 24, 2021, 06:06:29 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 24, 2021, 04:31:01 PM

Nah, just a rolling process. Every generation thinks it’s more special than they one that comes after (and when it’s young, thinks it’s more special than the one that came before)

AC has been around since the 50s so I don't think it's that. 

All through human history people just dealt with the temp as best they could, now all of a sudden no one wants to go outside if it's over 80 because it's too hot, and no one wants to go outside if it's under 70 because it's too cold. It's turned everyone into a bunch of useless wimps. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2021, 06:43:04 PM

The first modern air conditioner was invented in 1902 by Willis Haviland Carrier, a skilled engineer who began experimenting with the laws of humidity control to solve an application problem at a printing plant in Brooklyn, NY

I'd agree it became more widely spread in the 50s.

At the St. Louis World's Fair in 1904, organizers used mechanical refrigeration to cool the Missouri State Building. The system used 35,000 cubic feet of air per minute to cool the 1,000-seat auditorium, the rotunda and other rooms within the Missouri State Building. It marked the first time the American public was exposed to the concept of comfort cooling. A big breakthrough in comfort cooling technology came in the 1920s, when Americans flocked to movie theaters to watch Hollywood stars on the silver screen.  

Early cooling systems for public theaters were essentially heating systems modified with refrigeration equipment that distributed cold air through floor vents, resulting in hot, muggy conditions at upper levels and much colder temperatures at lower levels, where patrons sometimes resorted to wrapping their feet with newspapers to stay warm. In 1922, Carrier Engineering Corporation installed the first well-designed cooling system for theaters at Metropolitan Theater in Los Angeles, which pumped cool air through higher vents for better humidity control and comfort throughout the building.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 24, 2021, 07:05:04 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on August 24, 2021, 06:06:29 PM

AC has been around since the 50s so I don't think it's that.

All through human history people just dealt with the temp as best they could, now all of a sudden no one wants to go outside if it's over 80 because it's too hot, and no one wants to go outside if it's under 70 because it's too cold. It's turned everyone into a bunch of useless wimps.

It all started with paved roads.  We should go back to driving on goat trails.
Wait!  Most cars have A/C, so we should walk on thos goat trails.
Anyone who can't walk from St. Louis to Sacramento in 6 months, making it over the Sierra Nevada before the snows block the trails, is just a stinkin' wimp!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 24, 2021, 07:15:08 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 24, 2021, 07:05:04 PM

Anyone who can't walk from St. Louis to Sacramento in 6 months, making it over the Sierra Nevada before the snows black the trails, is just a stinkin' wimp!

(https://i.imgur.com/ekyYtjO.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 24, 2021, 07:18:56 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 24, 2021, 07:05:04 PM

Anyone who can't walk from St. Louis to Sacramento in 6 months, making it over the Sierra Nevada before the snows black the trails, is just a stinkin' wimp!

That was Cincy's trek to grade school each morning.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 24, 2021, 07:46:09 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 24, 2021, 07:05:04 PM

It all started with paved roads.  We should go back to driving on goat trails.
Wait!  Most cars have A/C, so we should walk on thos goat trails.
Anyone who can't walk from St. Louis to Sacramento in 6 months, making it over the Sierra Nevada before the snows block the trails, is just a stinkin' wimp!

Hyperbole is fun, but yeah. Few people alive today would last one week as a pioneer traversing the west.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 25, 2021, 07:15:44 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 24, 2021, 05:04:43 PM

Each morning I bring up my weather report, and every day this week Atlanta has had lower Ts than Cincy, and lower RH as well, and that is not unusual I find.  Summers here just last longer than there.

Right now it's 95°F and 45% RH in both places, oddly enough, I think today is the hottest it's been all summer.

RH?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2021, 07:23:55 PM

Relative humidity

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 25, 2021, 07:34:03 PM

whats the big deal about relative humidity 

I know RH is the % of moister in the air considering what the temp is

why express it like that

forget relative

just tell me how much moister is in the air

I dont care what the temp is

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2021, 07:44:34 PM

Dew point is more useful

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 25, 2021, 07:46:45 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 25, 2021, 07:44:34 PM

Dew point is more useful

but the dew point really doesnt tell me how hot its going to feel 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2021, 08:33:53 PM

the heat index tries to do that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on August 25, 2021, 08:36:16 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 25, 2021, 07:46:45 PM

but the dew point really doesnt tell me how hot its going to feel

Isn't that what the Heat Index is for?  Temperature with a factor for RH?
Relative humidity is useful for purposes other than how hot it makes you feel.
It's a component in calculating takeoff distances and climb rates in airplanes, for example.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 25, 2021, 08:52:47 PM

Quote from: CWSooner on August 25, 2021, 08:36:16 PM

Isn't that what the Heat Index is for?  Temperature with a factor for RH?
Relative humidity is useful for purposes other than how hot it makes you feel.
It's a component in calculating takeoff distances and climb rates in airplanes, for example.

thats fine tell the fly boys that stuff

joe six pack really doesnt care how much moisture is in the air relative to the temp

cant they just tell me how much moister is in the air

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 25, 2021, 08:54:17 PM

Electric bill is roughly $100/mo around here, sans AC.

Just showed up for the past month. $326. 

I guess that's not worst case scenario... I was worried it might be >400...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2021, 10:02:25 PM

Mine was $160

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 25, 2021, 10:04:29 PM

My electric bill is around $350 in the summer months.  That's 3800 sqft, with A/C running all day long.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2021, 10:09:46 PM

my A/C has been running all day and most of the night

1100 Sq ft

about $160/month

all electric, no gas

cheap cheap

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 25, 2021, 10:22:22 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 25, 2021, 10:04:29 PM

My electric bill is around $350 in the summer months.  That's 3800 sqft, with A/C running all day long.

my bill ranges from $250 to $275 in the summer

2 air conditioners 3300 sqft

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 25, 2021, 10:26:39 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 25, 2021, 10:09:46 PM

my A/C has been running all day and most of the night

1100 Sq ft

about $160/month

all electric, no gas

cheap cheap

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 25, 2021, 10:22:22 PM

my bill ranges from $250 to $275 in the summer

2 air conditioners 3300 sqft

Yeah we have two A/Cs as well.  All electric on the A/C, the gas runs the furnace in the winter.

I also have a pool and during the summer the primary pump runs 8 hours per day, every day, and that uses a decent amount of electricity on top of the A/C.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 25, 2021, 10:29:58 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 25, 2021, 10:26:39 PM

Yeah we have two A/Cs as well.  All electric on the A/C, the gas runs the furnace in the winter.

I also have a pool and during the summer the primary pump runs 8 hours per day, every day, and that uses a decent amount of electricity on top of the A/C.

yep that will sure increase your bill

do you use a pool service or do the maint yourself?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 25, 2021, 11:03:18 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 25, 2021, 10:26:39 PM

Yeah we have two A/Cs as well.  All electric on the A/C, the gas runs the furnace in the winter.

I also have a pool and during the summer the primary pump runs 8 hours per day, every day, and that uses a decent amount of electricity on top of the A/C.

Ditto almost to the penny.  Pool runs 8 hours- A/C ( 2 units) close to year round- 24/7 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 25, 2021, 11:08:17 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 25, 2021, 10:29:58 PM

yep that will sure increase your bill

do you use a pool service or do the maint yourself?

I'm a little embarrassed to say I use a service.  It's really something I should do myself, but I don't.  I justify it by saying I'm helping the local economy... ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 25, 2021, 11:13:07 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 25, 2021, 11:08:17 PM

I'm a little embarrassed to say I use a service.  It's really something I should do myself, but I don't.  I justify it by saying I'm helping the local economy... ;)

Nothing wrong with that. I was doing the same thing except for I fired them purely for lack of good performance. My better half loves doing it so she does it and takes way better care of it then the pool company did.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 25, 2021, 11:23:21 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 25, 2021, 11:08:17 PM

I'm a little embarrassed to say I use a service.  It's really something I should do myself, but I don't.  I justify it by saying I'm helping the local economy... ;)

just wondering


if I had a pool Id use one course Im lazy so theres that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 25, 2021, 11:30:31 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 25, 2021, 11:13:07 PM

Nothing wrong with that. I was doing the same thing except for I fired them purely for lack of good performance. My better half loves doing it so she does it and takes way better care of it then the pool company did.

I've read up on it and it seems pretty straightforward. My 13yo daughter expressed an interest in it when I told her I'd pay her the same as I pay my service, and that once she learned how, there are probably a dozen pools of our friends and neighbors nearby that she could service as well, and make really good money on her own schedule.  She started studying up on it and I think she wants to pull the trigger on it next spring/summer.  She'd rather do that than babysit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 26, 2021, 12:38:05 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 25, 2021, 10:04:29 PM

My electric bill is around $350 in the summer months.  That's 3800 sqft, with A/C running all day long.

1200sf here and no pool...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2021, 08:25:31 AM

We have 2300 sf and two heat pumps, both are "water sourced" which means they are really efficient.  But two of our sides are other units, or the hall, so we don't have much exposure, and are north and east facing.  I have been delighted at how low my e bills have been (no gas).

I'll mention again how much I love this inductive cooktop stove.

We're exploring new restaurants on Wednesdays now, using the Atlanta magazine top list, if I can get a reservation.  We tried Miller Union last night, which was rated "#1".  If so, the dining scene here isn't much.  Now MU was very good and interesting, and maybe that's the deal, but it is rather casual, service was not "elite", food was not that expensive, ours were $28 each for the entree, wine list was pretty awesome but they had no bottles under about $60 and one DRC was $2550.

So, nice meal, interesting approach, decent ambience, decent service, no tablecloths, not that far to drive, they have outside dining, but not something I'd go far out of my way to eat at.  There really is something about French restaurants that the US have yet to emulate in my experience, even at our fine dining places.  Restaurant L in Cincy got close, but they closed.  Their chef is French and a friend of ours, he was down with cancer for a while.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 26, 2021, 08:26:33 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 26, 2021, 12:38:05 AM

1200sf here and no pool...

Yikes, and you hit in the 300s this month?  Whew.

Our previous house was 1400 sqft and our electric ran about $200 in summer.  Maybe $50 in the winter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2021, 08:30:48 AM

We'd exceed $300 a month in summer and winter in the Cincy house, efficient gas furnace and AC unit, both new.  We touched $400 a few months.

That was a regular house and had vaulted ceilings with uncertain insulation.  Nice house really, I liked it a lot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2021, 09:01:19 AM

Atlanta magazine top list??

we all know how much you enjoy a good list ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2021, 09:14:40 AM

Yeah, I'm always dubious about such lists, but for me it's a place to start.  The Cincy Magazine list was actually pretty good, and I was "in the biz" back then, our place hit #17.  The top places were well known and regarded.  The ATL Mag seems to include a lot of very casual places, which is fine with me, but different.  Conde Nast has a lot of overlap.  Anyway, the places are at least interesting.

Lists out of Trip Advisor et al. are useless.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2021, 09:33:49 AM

when we replaced our air conditioners with current models the energy efficiency was huge

todays models use about 60% to 70% less electricity

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2021, 09:36:52 AM

Yeah, we were hitting $350 last summer. Replaced the windows with impact/UV, 3 feet of insulation in the attic, new AC unit and air handler. New automated variable speed pumps for the pool, and solar for the pool.

Highest bill this summer is $172. 

No gas here - all electric (induction is awesome).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2021, 09:44:24 AM

In my old house, I upgraded attic insulation to R50 and that helped enormously.  That house was two story and always was hot upstairs, I didn't have two ACs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 26, 2021, 10:36:03 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 26, 2021, 08:26:33 AM

Yikes, and you hit in the 300s this month?  Whew.

Our previous house was 1400 sqft and our electric ran about $200 in summer.  Maybe $50 in the winter.

1970's house with poor insulation, original drafty single-pane windows, drafty doors, etc. 

If I owned it, it would have all been handled by now. But I would never have bought this place, so there's that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 26, 2021, 11:33:23 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 25, 2021, 11:30:31 PM

I've read up on it and it seems pretty straightforward. My 13yo daughter expressed an interest in it when I told her I'd pay her the same as I pay my service, and that once she learned how, there are probably a dozen pools of our friends and neighbors nearby that she could service as well, and make really good money on her own schedule.  She started studying up on it and I think she wants to pull the trigger on it next spring/summer.  She'd rather do that than babysit.

You're always thinking, Butch

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 26, 2021, 11:44:43 AM

thinkin' cap on, my friend

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on August 26, 2021, 02:35:30 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 25, 2021, 11:08:17 PM

I'm a little embarrassed to say I use a service.  It's really something I should do myself, but I don't.  I justify it by saying I'm helping the local economy... ;)

I wouldn't even consider doing it myself.  Same way I wouldn't consider doing my own landscape maintenance.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 26, 2021, 03:52:28 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on August 26, 2021, 02:35:30 PM

I wouldn't even consider doing it myself.  Same way I wouldn't consider doing my own landscape maintenance.

I love being capable of doing things myself...

...but some things I'd still just rather pay someone to do.

Brakes are a good example. I know how to do brakes. Heck, they're about as simple as it gets on a car. I'm happy doing brakes on my Jeep. It came time to do the brakes on my Flex, though, and it was a hot Saturday, I'm in the garage with the car jacked up, I've got one wheel off before I realize I don't have the right socket, I'm sweaty, and getting frustrated. 

So I said screw it. I can do brakes, but I don't have to. That's a task I can throw money at. 

Same as an oil change. I can do it. Did it for years on my vehicles. Would rather throw money at it and let someone else get dirty. 

Some tasks are easy enough to do yourself, but simultaneously cheap enough for it to be MORE than worth it to pay someone else. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 26, 2021, 04:01:58 PM

I'll do my own disc brakes.  I pay someone else to do drum brakes.

And disposing of the oil is enough of a PITA that I just let the shop do oil changes, too.

Pool chemicals are pretty straightforward and not really all that time consuming, I was just REALLY busy when we first bought the house, and decided to spend my time elsewhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2021, 04:07:26 PM

I used to do my own oil changes

I used to do my brakes

I used to cut my grass

I used to be 30 years old

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2021, 04:08:45 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 26, 2021, 04:07:26 PM

I used to do my own oil changes

I used to do my brakes

I used to cut my grass

I used to be 30 years old

I'm looking in the mirror here...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 26, 2021, 04:47:12 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 26, 2021, 04:07:26 PM

I used to do my own oil changes

I used to do my brakes

I used to cut my grass

I used to be 30 years old

Use to do those and Shocks and Exhaust  stopped that by the mid '80s.Just didn't like brake work though easier than shocks.Had Chilton's Manuals - timing and adjusting/advancing spark.Use to shoe mules and send smoke signals and make my own Likker too(not really)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 26, 2021, 05:10:21 PM

JFC...

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/26585-Via-Cuervo-Mission-Viejo-CA-92691/25628096_zpid/?

A few doors down from me. $741K for 1100 sf in a house that looks like outdated crap inside. On a postage stamp lot. 

This is insanity.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 26, 2021, 07:11:31 PM

Salute.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 26, 2021, 09:28:40 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 26, 2021, 10:36:03 AM

1970's house with poor insulation, original drafty single-pane windows, drafty doors, etc.

If I owned it, it would have all been handled by now. But I would never have bought this place, so there's that.

I feel like Ca houses are hit-and-miss on insulation.

They hardly need it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 26, 2021, 11:26:25 PM

Had a pool for 10+ years. Did all the maintenance.  Filled it in a few years ago because it needed replastered and I was tired of it. 

One thing I did to help with the electrical consumption was to switch to a 2 speed pump. It ran at two speeds- the usual 3450 rpm and then 1725 rpms or half speed. At half speed it only moves I think 1/4 the water but it uses 1/8 the electricity. And it’s better to move the water constantly anyways. You end up needing to run the pump 4 times longer but only use 1/2 the power. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 27, 2021, 08:08:31 AM

Yup mine has a variable speed pump and is programmed to run at different speeds throughout the day.  It runs higher when the Polaris is cleaning, and runs at slower speeds the rest of the day.

I also sometimes run the waterfalls overnight, it helps cool the water.  They have their own, separate pump.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 27, 2021, 09:03:41 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 27, 2021, 08:08:31 AM

Yup mine has a variable speed pump and is programmed to run at different speeds throughout the day.  It runs higher when the Polaris is cleaning, and runs at slower speeds the rest of the day.

I also sometimes run the waterfalls overnight, it helps cool the water.  They have their own, separate pump.

That is news to me.  ( the cooling part) I like the idea of running the waterfall so it cools it!  Thanks/ will give it a try because this time of year it would be great to cool it a couple degrees. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2021, 09:21:30 AM

A waterfall would encourage evaporation which sucks heat from the liquid water.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2021, 09:44:36 AM

Running the jets on the hot tub (not in spa mode, of course) also helps cool down.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2021, 09:56:56 AM

Man the problems you rich whacks have ;D

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 27, 2021, 10:03:29 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 27, 2021, 09:56:56 AM

Man the problems you rich whacks have ;D

I hate it when the help isnt on time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2021, 10:07:12 AM

The phone is busted in my limosine.

YARN | Didn't I tell you, the phone in my limousine is busted | Trading Places (1983) | Video clips by quotes | 88728bcf | 紗 (getyarn.io) (https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/88728bcf-a83d-4114-a490-bbc2f27c960b)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2021, 11:15:21 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 27, 2021, 10:03:29 AM

I hate it when the help isnt on time and not wearing a mask.

Fixed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 27, 2021, 11:17:09 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 27, 2021, 09:21:30 AM

A waterfall would encourage evaporation which sucks heat from the liquid water.

Moving water through cooler night air cools it off.  When air temp is below pool water temp.  Which is basically every single night from June through September.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2021, 12:15:12 PM

More surface area, more heat exchange, more evaporative cooling, which I could use right now, just back from a run.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2021, 12:26:31 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 27, 2021, 11:17:09 AM

Moving water through cooler night air cools it off.  When air temp is below pool water temp.  Which is basically every single night from June through September.

Same, but May through October here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 27, 2021, 12:29:08 PM

They actually make sprayers that you can hook into your jets, that perform a similar function.  If I didn't have the waterfalls, I'd consider getting some of those.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2021, 12:29:27 PM

Our pool is really warm now, the building reflects the sun on to it and it's south facing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 27, 2021, 12:31:30 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 27, 2021, 12:29:27 PM

Our pool is really warm now, the building reflects the sun on to it and it's south facing.

I have very little shade over the pool during the hottest part of the day.  The good news is, that means I don't have trees that are dropping all their funk into the pool.  The bad news is, it warms up quickly and stays warm, throughout the summer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2021, 12:33:24 PM

I'd consider putting a misting system out on my patio... I might actually spend a lot more time out there in the summer if I had cooling...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2021, 12:35:00 PM

I got new running shoes and slowed down, a bit.  They have more cushion and more weight.

I'm still slow, but 11:03 for a mile this morning.  I feel like I'm running really hard, but that's slow.  The extra 40 pounds doesn't help.  I'm running, swimming, lifting, and drinking.  That last item is probably keeping the weight on.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2021, 01:02:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 27, 2021, 12:35:00 PM

I got new running shoes and slowed down, a bit.  They have more cushion and more weight.

I'm still slow, but 11:03 for a mile this morning.  I feel like I'm running really hard, but that's slow.  The extra 40 pounds doesn't help.  I'm running, swimming, lifting, and drinking.  That last item is probably keeping the weight on.

I'm doing one of those 4 things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 27, 2021, 01:04:47 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2021, 01:02:13 PM

I'm doing one of those 4 things.

😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 27, 2021, 01:07:42 PM

Ha!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on August 27, 2021, 02:06:18 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 26, 2021, 03:52:28 PM

I love being capable of doing things myself...

...but some things I'd still just rather pay someone to do.

Brakes are a good example. I know how to do brakes. Heck, they're about as simple as it gets on a car. I'm happy doing brakes on my Jeep. It came time to do the brakes on my Flex, though, and it was a hot Saturday, I'm in the garage with the car jacked up, I've got one wheel off before I realize I don't have the right socket, I'm sweaty, and getting frustrated.

So I said screw it. I can do brakes, but I don't have to. That's a task I can throw money at.

Same as an oil change. I can do it. Did it for years on my vehicles. Would rather throw money at it and let someone else get dirty.

Some tasks are easy enough to do yourself, but simultaneously cheap enough for it to be MORE than worth it to pay someone else.

Don't get me wrong, I am capable, just would rather pay someone else.

I use to do all my own car repairs (other than totally rebuild an engine, there is not much that I have done on a car), house repairs, I have fixed ACs, put in new water heaters. etc.

I did it because i had to, couldn't afford to do it otherwise. 

Now that I can pay someone to do those things, I pay someone, my time is worth more than what I pay someone else to do it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on August 27, 2021, 02:07:57 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 27, 2021, 08:08:31 AM

Yup mine has a variable speed pump and is programmed to run at different speeds throughout the day.  It runs higher when the Polaris is cleaning, and runs at slower speeds the rest of the day.

I also sometimes run the waterfalls overnight, it helps cool the water.  They have their own, separate pump.

Pool water is currently over 90 degrees in my pool. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2021, 02:09:27 PM

92° (https://weather.com/weather/tenday/l/dbc6c73a9aa3b15409cf4fcf2da329b0b19d606b6b6f24b13bdb65613a10747a)Cincinnati, OH1 (https://weather.com/weather/tenday/l/dbc6c73a9aa3b15409cf4fcf2da329b0b19d606b6b6f24b13bdb65613a10747a)

91° (https://weather.com/weather/tenday/l/303b0e8e1241fc4aa6917782fcb6acc5e397301c948a6bda6c311c30e4c5f84f)Washington, DC1 (https://weather.com/weather/tenday/l/303b0e8e1241fc4aa6917782fcb6acc5e397301c948a6bda6c311c30e4c5f84f)

88° (https://weather.com/weather/tenday/l/f571da531af5fa018983700b738adfdb40dc04f959eed1269b4afffef810e180)Atlanta, GA (https://weather.com/weather/tenday/l/f571da531af5fa018983700b738adfdb40dc04f959eed1269b4afffef810e180)

Current conditions, I chuckled.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2021, 02:28:17 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on August 27, 2021, 02:07:57 PM

Pool water is currently over 90 degrees in my pool.

It's hard to keep it under that around here. 90-92 is about the norm.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 27, 2021, 02:41:13 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on August 27, 2021, 02:06:18 PM

Don't get me wrong, I am capable, just would rather pay someone else.

I use to do all my own car repairs (other than totally rebuild an engine, there is not much that I have done on a car), house repairs, I have fixed ACs, put in new water heaters. etc.

I did it because i had to, couldn't afford to do it otherwise.

Now that I can pay someone to do those things, I pay someone, my time is worth more than what I pay someone else to do it.

Yeah I still love working with my hands, but I'd rather spend my time building and creating.  I always have a project or 5 going.

For example, I'm currently in the midst of adding a long wall of built-in wardrobes into my master bedroom. We don't really NEED them, we have a huge walk-in closet, but there was a ton of dead space at one end of our overly massive master bedroom, and I thought they'd add some visual interest and architectural detail to the room, while also being functional.  We'll be able to move most of our clothes out of the master closet and put a weight bench and a treadmill in there and use it as a home gym.

I find that kind of work interesting and fun, as opposed to changing oil which I find to be tedious and dull. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2021, 02:53:37 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on August 27, 2021, 02:06:18 PM

Don't get me wrong, I am capable, just would rather pay someone else.

I use to do all my own car repairs (other than totally rebuild an engine, there is not much that I have done on a car), house repairs, I have fixed ACs, put in new water heaters. etc.

I did it because i had to, couldn't afford to do it otherwise.

Now that I can pay someone to do those things, I pay someone, my time is worth more than what I pay someone else to do it.

Quote from: utee94 on August 27, 2021, 02:41:13 PM

Yeah I still love working with my hands, but I'd rather spend my time building and creating.  I always have a project or 5 going.

For example, I'm currently in the midst of adding a long wall of built-in wardrobes into my master bedroom. We don't really NEED them, we have a huge walk-in closet, but there was a ton of dead space at one end of our overly massive master bedroom, and I thought they'd add some visual interest and architectural feature to the room, while also being functional.  We'll be able to move most of our clothes out of the master closet and put a weight bench and a treadmill in there and use it as a home gym.

I find that kind of work interesting and fun, as opposed to changing oil which I find to be tedious and dull. 

Exactly. It depends on what it is. Hence why I made a distinction between the Jeep and the Flex. The Jeep is a toy.

Wrenching on the Jeep is a hobby. Wrenching on the Flex is a chore. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2021, 04:15:04 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2021, 02:28:17 PM

It's hard to keep it under that around here. 90-92 is about the norm.

That's got to feel like pee.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2021, 04:17:16 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 27, 2021, 12:35:00 PM

  I'm running, swimming, lifting, and drinking.  

I run only when something dangerous is chasing me.
I swim for leisure.
I lift for utility.  When I moved this past time, I could still move everything myself, but it ran me ragged.  Not fun.
I rarely drink anymore.  I don't know why.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 27, 2021, 04:30:43 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2021, 02:53:37 PM

Exactly. It depends on what it is. Hence why I made a distinction between the Jeep and the Flex. The Jeep is a toy.

Wrenching on the Jeep is a hobby. Wrenching on the Flex is a chore.

The other thing, to me anyway, is how much you are saving.  Oil changes are so cheap that by the time you back out the cost of the oil and filter to do it yourself you are really only saving maybe $15 to do it yourself.  OTOH, changing your own brakes saves a LOT.  

Another example that just REALLY ticked me off:
My daughter was born 9/17 and it was a scheduled C-section.  Ie, I knew in advance that it was going to happen on 9/17.  So I get a call from the wife on 9/16 that we have no hot water.  I checked the price for a hot water heater for our house and it was ~$1,250 to replace what we had (50 Gal high efficiency gas).  I called a plumber and they wanted $2,500 to do the job.  I had to pay it because I was having a daughter the next day but it REALLY ticked me off.  

I've been changing hot water heaters for 40 years (first helping, then leading, then doing it myself) and even though I don't do it often, it is MAYBE a 3-4 hour job.  Good god, the plumber charged $400/hour!  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2021, 04:38:30 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2021, 04:15:04 PM

That's got to feel like pee.

Actually, it does not. The heat index readings about now are 95-105. So, 90 feels pretty good. So does getting out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2021, 04:46:56 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2021, 04:15:04 PM

That's got to feel like pee.

Dude, you gotta be more careful. You're leaving it WIDE open...


(https://i.imgur.com/suyMami.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 27, 2021, 06:13:25 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 27, 2021, 04:30:43 PM

The other thing, to me anyway, is how much you are saving.  Oil changes are so cheap that by the time you back out the cost of the oil and filter to do it yourself you are really only saving maybe $15 to do it yourself.  OTOH, changing your own brakes saves a LOT. 

Another example that just REALLY ticked me off:
My daughter was born 9/17 and it was a scheduled C-section.  Ie, I knew in advance that it was going to happen on 9/17.  So I get a call from the wife on 9/16 that we have no hot water.  I checked the price for a hot water heater for our house and it was ~$1,250 to replace what we had (50 Gal high efficiency gas).  I called a plumber and they wanted $2,500 to do the job.  I had to pay it because I was having a daughter the next day but it REALLY ticked me off. 

I've been changing hot water heaters for 40 years (first helping, then leading, then doing it myself) and even though I don't do it often, it is MAYBE a 3-4 hour job.  Good god, the plumber charged $400/hour! 

Dag, I just had this done yesterday, and the plumber only charged $1500. Only took him about two hours though. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 27, 2021, 09:23:09 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2021, 04:15:04 PM

That's got to feel like pee.

Some people will pay good money for that sort of thing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 27, 2021, 09:23:52 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 27, 2021, 04:30:43 PM

The other thing, to me anyway, is how much you are saving.  Oil changes are so cheap that by the time you back out the cost of the oil and filter to do it yourself you are really only saving maybe $15 to do it yourself.  OTOH, changing your own brakes saves a LOT. 

Another example that just REALLY ticked me off:
My daughter was born 9/17 and it was a scheduled C-section.  Ie, I knew in advance that it was going to happen on 9/17.  So I get a call from the wife on 9/16 that we have no hot water.  I checked the price for a hot water heater for our house and it was ~$1,250 to replace what we had (50 Gal high efficiency gas).  I called a plumber and they wanted $2,500 to do the job.  I had to pay it because I was having a daughter the next day but it REALLY ticked me off. 

I've been changing hot water heaters for 40 years (first helping, then leading, then doing it myself) and even though I don't do it often, it is MAYBE a 3-4 hour job.  Good god, the plumber charged $400/hour! 

Shoulda gone into plumbing?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 28, 2021, 10:27:07 AM

Plumbing License >>>>>> BA Art History

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2021, 10:28:04 AM

I've mentioned before my kids both got "soft" degrees and both are doing very well now.  Some of this comes down to gumption and effort.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2021, 10:30:11 AM

and luck

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 28, 2021, 10:40:31 AM

Roman philosopher Seneca, 

“Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 28, 2021, 10:43:10 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 27, 2021, 09:23:09 PM

Some people will pay good money for that sort of thing.

Water Sports? :bluegrab:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 28, 2021, 10:47:53 AM

Another hit piece...

(https://i.imgur.com/D7zKqsE.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 28, 2021, 10:49:14 AM

Miami Herald runs 'misleading' headline suggesting 901 Florida COVID deaths occurred in single day | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/media/miami-herald-covid-deaths-ron-desantis)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2021, 11:12:31 AM

There often is unusual "good fortune", and bad, in our lives.  A tipped pass falls into the WRs hands, or is picked off, seemingly by chance.

I'm obviously biased, but I think my kids worked pretty hard to put themselves into a position of benefitting from some of the good.  My lawyer kid in Texas had his final interview for General Counsel at Whole Foods, which he would really like as a job.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2021, 11:13:06 AM

Yep, that's garbage 'journalism,' obviously.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2021, 11:14:21 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 28, 2021, 11:12:31 AM

There often is unusual "good fortune", and bad, in our lives.  A tipped pass falls into the WRs hands, or is picked off, seemingly by chance.

I'm obviously biased, but I think my kids worked pretty hard to put themselves into a position of benefitting from some of the good.  My lawyer kid in Texas had his final interview for General Counsel at Whole Foods, which he would really like as a job. 

Luck isn't a replacement for hard work.  They both exist and happen, and neither is guaranteed to pay off.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 28, 2021, 11:23:17 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2021, 11:14:21 AM

Luck isn't a replacement for hard work.  They both exist and happen, and neither is guaranteed to pay off. 

When they happen together, payoff is guaranteed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 28, 2021, 11:55:31 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 28, 2021, 11:23:17 AM

When they happen together, payoff is guaranteed.

When a person is just starting out sometimes they dont recognize good luck when its staring them in the face

You can always find another job that will pay you more but theres more to being happy in a job then money

one of the problems facing companies today is their workforce is so young they dont know just how good they have it

theres a lot a company can do to make it a great place to work besides just compensation 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2021, 12:04:26 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 28, 2021, 11:23:17 AM

When they happen together, payoff is guaranteed.

Not to make you groan, but that's not the case.  It usually is.  
I really think you underestimate the army of people who do the right thing, but still live unfortunate lives.  Even with a lucky break - those can be temporary.
.
Doing everything right on your end and having things work out is luck in itself.  I won't call it privilege or white privilege, because it's not.  But it is also not a layup.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2021, 12:09:35 PM

I think for a person who is capable and well educated, getting a break is going to ensure a good thing happens.
I'm not sure how there could be an exception, though longer term things can go south of course.

My daughter spent quite a bit of time as an intern before getting a break.  Then she found she hated the job, though it paid well, and worked to find another.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 28, 2021, 12:48:35 PM

There are always outliers. But luck + hard work = success is usually a pretty good general rule, even if there are some occasional exceptions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2021, 12:58:26 PM

Luck or a break tends to be an event.  Now sure, do the hard work so in case that luck happens, you're good to go.  
But luck runs out and I'd venture to say MOST people don't get a 2nd good break in life.

I think our privilege as reasonably educated and successful guys on this thread is showing.  Which is fine.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2021, 04:09:31 AM

My boss in grad school was from Mississippi and grew up when that was tough for a black kid.  He went to Tougaloo College and then Case Western for his PhD.  He got a teaching job at Dartmoth and left because he told me he was their "token N" and then went to UNC.  You could opine he was lucky to have black skin, or unlucky, because at different times it was a different kind of "luck".  He just wanted to be treated like everyone else, and largely was in the department.

Outsiders, not so much.  

Every time there was some public event needing faculty he got called.  He was 6'5" and played bball against Willis Reed in college.  He had a lot of interesting stories.  A grad student won't really get very close to his adviser until it's pretty clear he's going to make it though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 29, 2021, 12:29:48 PM

The gold medal match for Murderball is on NBC. Fun stuff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2021, 02:09:50 PM

It is fun to explain position names to Brits et al. in CFB.

OK, the center snaps the ball.  He's in the center of the line.  

He snaps it to the quarterback, who is kind of a quarter of the way back in the I formation.

The next back is the fullback, because, well, I don't know, and then the halfback, even though he's fully back.

In the line, we have an offensive guard to either side of the center, and then tackles, who of course never tackle anyone, or they get a penalty if they do.

Then there is one tight end, he's on the end of either side of the line, but lines up tight.

Then there are two wide receivers here and here, and another guy in the "slot", but only if there is no fullback.  And a player can't catch a pass downfield if he lines up and is covered, but his own teammate.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2021, 01:25:47 PM

AStronaut and Tech grad posts photo of ATL from space:

(https://i.imgur.com/8oxNaug.png)

Astronaut tweets view of Atlanta from space. Can you spot any landmarks? (ajc.com) (https://www.ajc.com/life/astronaut-tweets-view-of-atlanta-from-space-can-you-spot-any-landmarks/7APWKWCRCRDXBODAIEH4SCWL4E/?fbclid=IwAR2_0sfH_0IN_ES-lTDiHrJGQaqf-pcpP2a8p2DDrm2KZ3tDDti3sA-12t4)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 31, 2021, 01:37:41 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/Kmf2rEm.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 31, 2021, 04:13:11 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 31, 2021, 01:37:41 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/Kmf2rEm.png)

This is great. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 31, 2021, 04:15:15 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 31, 2021, 04:13:11 PM

This is great.

BTW I came up with the concept myself last night, and made that meme this morning. 

That's a bwarbs original :96: 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 31, 2021, 04:16:04 PM

Ha!  Nice.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 31, 2021, 04:50:32 PM

I do wonder how Chinese relations with the Taliban will be. On one hand pretty sure China is going to want to trade with Afghanistan and have access to the trillions of dollars of untapped mineral wealth there. And on the other hand, I do wonder how Taliban will view China having millions of muslims in concentration camps in a region that borders Afghanistan. Taliban aren't exactly some crazy jihadi terrorists looking to export their views on the rest of the world, so they might not even give a shit- but they do share a small border with China.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 01, 2021, 10:28:02 AM

@847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) 

I know you love the new remodeled condo, but.............

It may be a tiny shack on an island, but it could be your tiny shack on an island. Right now, Sea Shell Key, also known as "Pretty Joe Rock," is currently on the market in the Florida Keys.

Located at 1 Pretty Joe Rock, in Marathon, the private, quarter-of-an-acre island is currently used as a vacation rental, and was once featured on HGTV's "Buying the Beach."  The 1,006-square-foot home comes with two-bedrooms and two-bathrooms, as well as three decks, an easement for access and parking, a deep water dock, and zero neighbors.

The island is also but fully capable of building pretty much whatever you want on it, since it's connected with shore electricity, and city water.

Pretty Joe Rock is currently asking $2,500,000 and the listing agent is Gidget Jackson of Re/Max Realty Group.


https://photos.orlandoweekly.com/a-rare-private-island-in-the-florida-keys-is-now-on-the-market/?slide=1&screen-shot-2021-08-25-at-1-34-45-pm (https://photos.orlandoweekly.com/a-rare-private-island-in-the-florida-keys-is-now-on-the-market/?slide=1&screen-shot-2021-08-25-at-1-34-45-pm)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 01, 2021, 10:36:31 AM

I'm not in a condo. House.

Hard pass on the island house. Not my thing - and too much money for that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2021, 11:23:02 AM

I'm the guy in a condo, maybe the only one here, a rather odd condo on three levels.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 01, 2021, 11:59:48 AM

youse guys all look the same here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2021, 12:03:10 PM

The Taliban are going to need money from somewhere, but I'm not sure mining minerals is going to fly.  It's one thing to mine ore, and another to get it shipped somewhere it can be processed.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 01, 2021, 12:07:06 PM

the Chinese will send laborers to mine the minerals and ship it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2021, 12:09:50 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 01, 2021, 12:07:06 PM

the Chinese will send laborers to mine the minerals and ship it

Yup. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2021, 12:10:23 PM

I don't know how practicable that is over the next few years anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 01, 2021, 12:33:37 PM

me either, but if the Taliban make a good enough offer, it could happen

probably more likely the Russians

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2021, 12:33:52 PM

𝟏𝟎 𝐓𝐡𝐢𝐧𝐠𝐬 𝐘𝐨𝐮 𝐃𝐢𝐝𝐧’𝐭 𝐊𝐧𝐨𝐰 𝐀𝐛𝐨𝐮𝐭 𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐎𝐮𝐭𝐥𝐚𝐰 𝐉𝐨𝐬𝐞𝐲 𝐖𝐚𝐥𝐞𝐬 (todayband.com) (http://todayband.com/10-things-you-didnt-know-about-the-outlaw-josey-wales/?fbclid=IwAR1JXpfhEedgDMhmutPmni4vjBOolIG1iRvRtMJEHJ9kuBUpel7yMhhYMIw)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2021, 01:25:12 PM

The Chinese won't let anything stop them from securing near-global-monopolies on critical raw materials.  

Whatever scruples the USA might have, China isn't bothered with.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2021, 01:57:41 PM

Two to Go: Rambler’s 1963-1965 Twin-Stick Transmission | Mac's Motor City Garage (macsmotorcitygarage.com) (https://www.macsmotorcitygarage.com/two-to-go-ramblers-1963-1965-twin-stick-transmission/?fbclid=IwAR2yMnawSott2XyeV_VEWQyo5sfn_KEC4jkTLloxwrR2K_m30MdVcwnITGo)

(https://i.imgur.com/1uOgFSF.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2021, 03:46:24 PM

5 Must-See Filming Locations In Atlanta Used In Hollywood Blockbusters - Secret Atlanta (https://secretatlanta.co/film-locations-atlanta-hollywood/)

Atlanta is now the second largest film and television location site in the US.

Atlanta has slowly become the Hollywood of the South, and there are some incredible credentials to prove it. From the Marvel franchise to The Hunger Games, from Stranger Things to Anchorman. The ATL is responsible for so many iconic scenes and unforgettable cinematography! Here’s a round-up of six must-see filming locations in Atlanta:

1. The Swan House

(https://secretatlanta.co/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/shutterstock_43246804-300x199.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2021, 03:49:33 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/yjoiSVb.png)

As one of Atlanta’s most iconic and beloved parks, of course Piedmont Park has made its way onto the silver screen. It’s been used in films “What to Expect When You’re Expecting” and “Anchorman 2: The Legend Continues.” You can even catch glimpses of the park Marvel’s “Avengers: Infinity War”.

I used to see filming over there routinely, it's been way off with COVID but has started back some.  One day last fall I encountered a considerable amount of snow near the track.  We watched them film some of Ozark from our balcony a couple weeks back.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 01, 2021, 04:26:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 01, 2021, 03:46:24 PM

5 Must-See Filming Locations In Atlanta Used In Hollywood Blockbusters - Secret Atlanta (https://secretatlanta.co/film-locations-atlanta-hollywood/)

Atlanta is now the second largest film and television location site in the US.

See, I read this headline, think of the Braves' World Series losses and UGA's lack of a NC since the year I was born and think, WOW!  They REALLY like being #2.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2021, 04:29:47 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 01, 2021, 04:26:34 PM

See, I read this headline, think of the Braves' World Series losses and UGA's lack of a NC since the year I was born and think, WOW!  They REALLY like being #2.

Ha!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2021, 06:52:44 PM

I imagine LA is Number 1 for historical reasons of course.  The Braves have been No. 2 to LA the past couple nights also.

It is interesting to watch a film production, a TON of people "standing around", they make 4-5-6 takes, stand around some more, maybe make a couple more, these last maybe 10 seconds each or so, then pack everything up, which takes hours.  It takes a lot of effort and people to put 10 seconds in the can.  They use some really bright lights also, they were filming a movie "The Valet" near us and had an elevated light that threw shadows in the condo, from 2 blocks away, and it wasn't point at us.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2021, 07:00:44 PM

MasterClass | Aaron Franklin Teaches Texas-Style BBQ (https://www.masterclass.com/classes/aaron-franklin-teaches-texas-style-bbq?utm_source=Paid&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_term=Aq-Prospecting&utm_content=Video&utm_campaign=AF&fbclid=IwAR3dho8jKmIY-RkRMH1SV4B0qU2sFTToH-zuiqZjEqhTsqS580PxnlrgHkA)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2021, 07:03:38 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 01, 2021, 07:00:44 PM

MasterClass | Aaron Franklin Teaches Texas-Style BBQ (https://www.masterclass.com/classes/aaron-franklin-teaches-texas-style-bbq?utm_source=Paid&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_term=Aq-Prospecting&utm_content=Video&utm_campaign=AF&fbclid=IwAR3dho8jKmIY-RkRMH1SV4B0qU2sFTToH-zuiqZjEqhTsqS580PxnlrgHkA)

That guy makes decent BBQ.  Y'all should sign up and take some classes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2021, 07:10:02 PM

I have a couple thick ribeyes from Costco sitting out coming up to room T, simple seasoning.  I opened a bottle of Kirkland Stags Leap Red Wine, and decanted, it's excellent, still needs a half an hour of aie.  The wife is doing broccoli, and I'm about ready to fire up the grill.  She likes hers blu rare, which should be easy with this thick a steak.  I am more med rare to rare.

I go four min a side for mine and two for hers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 01, 2021, 07:28:07 PM

We're going here tonight: http://www.brugrill.com/

Good place.

Decided we wanted a date night out, since the kids are gone to their mom's house as of this morning. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 01, 2021, 11:14:24 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 31, 2021, 01:37:41 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/Kmf2rEm.png)

This leads me to a question of how many wars had China actually participated in? Seems like not many, give or take a couple proxy wars with the US. 

Granted, they seems to lack scruples, as our Texan friend said, which creates some tricky dynamics. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2021, 07:26:38 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on September 01, 2021, 11:14:24 PM

This leads me to a question of how many wars had China actually participated in? Seems like not many, give or take a couple proxy wars with the US.

Granted, they seems to lack scruples, as our Texan friend said, which creates some tricky dynamics.

Many. The most recent one they started was in 2019.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 02, 2021, 08:06:05 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 01, 2021, 03:49:33 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/yjoiSVb.png)

They've done a lot with the place since Uncle Billy last came thru

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 02, 2021, 08:11:08 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 01, 2021, 10:28:02 AM

@847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5)

I know you love the new remodeled condo, but.............

It may be a tiny shack on an island, but it could be your tiny shack on an island. Right now, Sea Shell Key, also known as "Pretty Joe Rock," is currently on the market in the Florida Keys.

https://photos.orlandoweekly.com/a-rare-private-island-in-the-florida-keys-is-now-on-the-market/?slide=1&screen-shot-2021-08-25-at-1-34-45-pm (https://photos.orlandoweekly.com/a-rare-private-island-in-the-florida-keys-is-now-on-the-market/?slide=1&screen-shot-2021-08-25-at-1-34-45-pm)

From the looks of it - it's one good blow from being a tiny rock of an island

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2021, 08:49:19 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/25dduHx.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2021, 09:31:59 AM

UTee gonna buy one of those.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2021, 09:34:35 AM

Before I met my wife, I had a thought after retirement of uprooting and living in a smaller camper van and traveling the continent in it with no permanent home for a while.

I still sort of dream about that life style at times, but my wife's idea of camping is Hilton.

I don't really want to do it, but it sounds sort of interesting, I like seeing things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 02, 2021, 09:47:16 AM

I've thought about a small motorhome to drive across the country from golf course to golf course

north in the summer and south in the winter

no property tax - going mobile

https://youtu.be/ToxymSLzJeM

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 02, 2021, 09:48:02 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2021, 09:31:59 AM

UTee gonna buy one of those.

It's vintage, I like it!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 02, 2021, 10:05:03 AM

Our plan for when the kids graduate, is to buy a large Class A motorcoach, and live mostly on the road, touring the country.  Nothing too fancy, maybe something like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/pgNqWSY.png)

https://www.rvdirect.com/New-inventory/vehicle/2022-Newmar-Ventana-3717-Class-A-4UZACHFC9NCMR3173/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 02, 2021, 10:08:37 AM

don't want anything that large, don't want to tow a smaller vehicle

but, it's just me - no wife

I just need a good hot shower in the morning

simple dirt farmer

(https://www.rvingplanet.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/sites/45/isata32.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 02, 2021, 10:12:12 AM

Yeah ours would have to be large.  I mean, I get along well with the i s c & a aggie wife,  but still, we're gonna need some space.

Also, if you get a Class C and don't tow an extra vehicle, that means you have to break camp every single time you want to go somewhere.  As a seasoned RV camper, I can assure you, that's no fun.  I'd definitely plan on having both a motorcoach and a small toad.  Or maybe a motorcycle since it's just for one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 02, 2021, 10:20:56 AM

Of course, in my dreams, I'd get something like this-- a vintage restored Vistaliner or Bluebird bus.   But in reality, I know all too well how flaky and unreliable vintage RVs can be, plus there are no slides on these things so they actually end up quite cramped despite their length.  Been there, done that, but it's fun to dream:

(https://i.imgur.com/HBdIAnc.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 02, 2021, 10:29:03 AM

I don't see breaking camp to be an issue.  I don't want to play the same golf course all week or even all weekend.

I'd probably be moving every morning

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 02, 2021, 10:37:02 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 02, 2021, 10:29:03 AM

I don't see breaking camp to be an issue.  I don't want to play the same golf course all week or even all weekend.

I'd probably be moving every morning

If you say so.  Every time you break camp, you not only have to pack everything up, you also have to disconnect city water, electricity, and sewer hose-- the dreaded "stinky slinky."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 02, 2021, 10:39:41 AM

yup, very familiar with the stinky slinky

my father had a 5th-wheel camper - I got all the stinky duties

maybe one of those fancy electric bicycles

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 02, 2021, 10:46:21 AM

I'm torn on the RV thing... Seems that in order to make it anywhere near worthwhile, you need to use it ALL the time... Much like a boat. If you're using an RV once a month or less, it's not very economical. 

If you're looking at $400K RVs, how many plane tickets and hotel rooms does it take to equal that? And as great as an RV is, it's not getting you to Europe...

But at the same time, if I want to travel the country *and* have dogs, flying and hotels is a heck of a lot harder than an RV. At least with an RV you can take the dogs. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 02, 2021, 10:54:46 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 02, 2021, 10:46:21 AM

I'm torn on the RV thing... Seems that in order to make it anywhere near worthwhile, you need to use it ALL the time... Much like a boat. If you're using an RV once a month or less, it's not very economical.

If you're looking at $400K RVs, how many plane tickets and hotel rooms does it take to equal that? And as great as an RV is, it's not getting you to Europe...

But at the same time, if I want to travel the country *and* have dogs, flying and hotels is a heck of a lot harder than an RV. At least with an RV you can take the dogs.

Well there's a bit of difference in the economics between selling your home and using your RV as a sole residence (as i plan to do someday with that $400K RV), or just having an RV as a luxury vehicle (which is what I currently do).

In the second case, the economics really don't justify it.  But economic sense is not really the point of luxury vehicles.  Much like our boat, our RV enables us to experience things that we couldn't otherwise do.  All of the state parks, national parks, and various other places we've explored, would not be accessible without the RV.  Sure you can buy day passes to some of those places, but it's not at all the same experience as spending all day and all night there, for a week or more.

So you can't really think of it as an economic investment, but rather as purchasing experiences.  Same as any other vacation.

Also, I've rented RVs and when you factor in all costs, if I use my RV for four long weekends in a year, I come out ahead.  In reality I use it a lot more than that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2021, 10:57:13 AM

This would work.

(https://i.imgur.com/nH44mzw.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 02, 2021, 11:00:38 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2021, 10:57:13 AM

This would work.

(https://i.imgur.com/nH44mzw.png)

Sure why not!!!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 02, 2021, 11:14:34 AM

Quote from: utee94 on September 02, 2021, 10:54:46 AM

Well there's a bit of difference in the economics between selling your home and using your RV as a sole residence (as i plan to do someday with that $400K RV), or just having an RV as a luxury vehicle (which is what I currently do).

In the second case, the economics really don't justify it.  But economic sense is not really the point of luxury vehicles.  Much like our boat, our RV enables us to experience things that we couldn't otherwise do.  All of the state parks, national parks, and various other places we've explored, would not be accessible without the RV.  Sure you can buy day passes to some of those places, but it's not at all the same experience as spending all day and all night there, for a week or more.

So you can't really think of it as an economic investment, but rather as purchasing experiences.  Same as any other vacation.

Also, I've rented RVs and when you factor in all costs, if I use my RV for four long weekends in a year, I come out ahead.  In reality I use it a lot more than that.

Definitely agree that if you're talking about selling your home and living in the RV basically full-time, it's a completely different calculation. I wasn't clear on that from your first post. 

I'm still not sure it's a great financial move because your RV will be losing value for as long as you do it (and I would think you'd get sick of it being your full-time residence after a year or two, but no more than 4-5 years), while that home will maintain or potentially gain value while you're on the road. 

I suppose the best alternative would be to keep your home, and rent it home out for a couple years while you're using the RV full-time. Especially if you've owned a home a while, it would likely be cash-flow positive relative to a mortgage (if a mortgage still exists) and then you'd have some place to come back to in a few years when RV life lost its luster. 

Even if the goal was to downsize after RV life (because the kids are gone), it might still make sense to keep the house as a rental property for a while, or if you can afford it, keep the house as a rental property even after downsizing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 02, 2021, 11:21:06 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 02, 2021, 11:14:34 AM

Definitely agree that if you're talking about selling your home and living in the RV basically full-time, it's a completely different calculation. I wasn't clear on that from your first post.

I'm still not sure it's a great financial move because your RV will be losing value for as long as you do it (and I would think you'd get sick of it being your full-time residence after a year or two, but no more than 4-5 years), while that home will maintain or potentially gain value while you're on the road.

I suppose the best alternative would be to keep your home, and rent it home out for a couple years while you're using the RV full-time. Especially if you've owned a home a while, it would likely be cash-flow positive relative to a mortgage (if a mortgage still exists) and then you'd have some place to come back to in a few years when RV life lost its luster.

Even if the goal was to downsize after RV life (because the kids are gone), it might still make sense to keep the house as a rental property for a while, or if you can afford it, keep the house as a rental property even after downsizing.

Yes we'll likely do that.  Just as we kept our prior home as a rental, when we purchased this one. 

Regardless, though, the point is not the economics.  It's the experience.  If I were solely interested in economics, I wouldn't currently own a boat or an RV.  And our lives would be a lot less fun, consequently.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 02, 2021, 11:40:26 AM

Quote from: utee94 on September 02, 2021, 11:21:06 AM

Yes we'll likely do that.  Just as we kept our prior home as a rental, when we purchased this one.

Regardless, though, the point is not the economics.  It's the experience.  If I were solely interested in economics, I wouldn't currently own a boat or an RV.  And our lives would be a lot less fun, consequently.

Yeah, I totally get that. I'm the same way when it comes to gifts. I don't want birthday gifts from people. I'd rather go out to dinner or drinks with them.

I'm not entirely sure I'm cut out for RV life, though, which is why to me the question is what kind of experience I really want. Driving across the country and having to set up and break camp every week seems like a lot of work. I'd rather save some of that $400K and spend it $10K at a time in places I can fly to ;-)  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on September 02, 2021, 11:45:12 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 02, 2021, 10:08:37 AM

(https://www.rvingplanet.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/sites/45/isata32.jpg)

My mom and aunt bought something similar to this, along with a small bumper pull horse trailer, for late-season trail riding around the region. Also to be used on the two weekends where we've been involved in multi-day horse shows at the State Fairgrounds. Said rig has been sold.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 02, 2021, 11:47:33 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 02, 2021, 11:40:26 AM

Yeah, I totally get that. I'm the same way when it comes to gifts. I don't want birthday gifts from people. I'd rather go out to dinner or drinks with them.

I'm not entirely sure I'm cut out for RV life, though, which is why to me the question is what kind of experience I really want. Driving across the country and having to set up and break camp every week seems like a lot of work. I'd rather save some of that $400K and spend it $10K at a time in places I can fly to ;-) 

We basically do both. :)

But in reality, although we do well financially, we're not the kind of people that are going to spend $10K-$15K taking the entire family to Europe every year.  That's something we're likely to only do with our family ONCE (and it was supposed to be 2020, now 2022).

We do like to get everyone down to a beach resort in the Caribbean every couple of years, but that's only like $3K-$4K total.

What's a lot simpler and easier and therefore more likely to happen for us, is to get to a state park or the national seashore for 4-7 days at a time. And despite the trips we've taken with the kids to Mexico and Grand Cayman and Jamaica and other exotic-ish locations, the ones they talk the most about, are the camping trips.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 02, 2021, 11:52:05 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 02, 2021, 09:34:35 AM

Before I met my wife, I had a thought after retirement of uprooting and living in a smaller camper van and traveling the continent in it with no permanent home for a while.

I still sort of dream about that life style at times, but my wife's idea of camping is Hilton.

I don't really want to do it, but it sounds sort of interesting, I like seeing things.

A few years back, I’m an older gentleman who is doing it right.

He was living in a picturesque, sort of remote mountainous area, not too far from you actually. He had one child on the other side of the state, another who lived out in Colorado and was a HS football coach.

They’d load up the camper, roll out west in the fall. Thursday/Friday/Saturday AM we’re for family and grandkids sporting events. Rest of the week, seeing and fishing at national parks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on September 02, 2021, 12:09:55 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 02, 2021, 10:08:37 AM

don't want anything that large, don't want to tow a smaller vehicle

but, it's just me - no wife

I just need a good hot shower in the morning

simple dirt farmer

(https://www.rvingplanet.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/sites/45/isata32.jpg)

The Wife & I came real close to buying something like this last year.  Kind of regret not buying it.  Plenty big enough for the two of us.  The debate has been retire and become snow birds.  House here and house in New England area or House and an RV or just as house and do the normal travel thing. Since my wife won't let me retire yet, I am in a current paralysis by analysis on what is the best decision. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2021, 12:13:57 PM

I would not want two residences for us, I think I can pay for a hotel or B&B as needed.

We're headed out next week for three nights, one in north GA and one at Lake Toxaway, NC.  I gather they get rid of my toxins there.

Nice looking resort in NC.  

My wife noted that if we did the camper thing, she be cooking and cleaning and washing just like she does here, so it's not a vacay for her.

She's right you know.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 02, 2021, 12:22:35 PM

yup, the RV would be a home on the road for a year or two between the current residence and the retirement residence in Texas.

sell one house, no taxes or upkeep (too lazy to have a rental place and put up with tenants), travel in the RV for a year or two (until I tire of it, maybe a month), then sell the RV and move into retirement house in Texas

if I'm vacationing, a Holiday Inn or AirBNB for an extended stay is preferable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 02, 2021, 12:26:16 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 02, 2021, 12:22:35 PM

yup, the RV would be a home on the road for a year or two between the current residence and the retirement residence in Texas.

sell one house, no taxes or upkeep (too lazy to have a rental place and put up with tenants), travel in the RV for a year or two (until I tire of it, maybe a month), then sell the RV and move into retirement house in Texas

if I'm vacationing, a Holiday Inn or AirBNB for an extended stay is preferable.

Don't you mean, when you retire in Florida next door to badgerfan?

Texas is a non-Floridian shithole, you definitely don't want to move here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2021, 12:27:12 PM

Clusterfest is back in Atlanta, and MARTA says, 'Take MARTA' | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/what-to-do-labor-day-dragon-con-college-football-weekend-marta)

Dragon Con, Chick-fil-A Kickoff Games, Atlanta Jazz Festival, PGA Tour, food festivals—it's all happening Labor Day Weekend

After a hiatus in 2020, one of the country's most popular and largest free music festivals returns to Piedmont Park over Labor Day Weekend (Sunday and Monday).

The 43rd Atlanta Jazz Festival will showcase top jazz performers and acts—Mike Phillips, Archie Shepp, and Patti Austin among them—plus a free Jazz 101 master class for a maximum of 250 attendees per workshop.

Gonna be an interesting weekend around here.  I'll be in front of the TV Sat of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 02, 2021, 12:53:48 PM

Quote from: utee94 on September 02, 2021, 12:26:16 PM

Don't you mean, when you retire in Florida next door to badgerfan?

Texas is a non-Floridian shithole, you definitely don't want to move here.

been to Florida four times

too wet and humid there, too many hurricanes, too many insects and reptiles

too many east coast retirees 

Texas is way better

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 02, 2021, 01:24:45 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 02, 2021, 12:53:48 PM

been to Florida four times

too wet and humid there, too many hurricanes, too many insects and reptiles

too many east coast retirees

Texas is way better

How about California then?  Not so wet and humid there, no hurricanes, no reptiles, insects aren't worse than most other places. Perfect weather. No east coast retirees either.

California is the place you oughtta be!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 02, 2021, 01:42:53 PM

Cali is WAY too expensive for this poor dirt farmer

and too liberal

I do really like the area north of San Fran

maybe I'll buy a lotto ticket

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2021, 01:49:31 PM

I glanced at some property in eastern CA on the slopes of the Sierra, about two hours from SF once.   You can get a nice place for not TOO much, at least 20 years ago.  The state income tax rates are seriously high even for moderate income folks.

The truly wealthy can easily manage to have little or no taxable income.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 02, 2021, 01:56:42 PM

The best part about living in an RV is that the cops can search your whole house every time you get pulled over for a minor traffic violation. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2021, 01:57:36 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 02, 2021, 12:53:48 PM

been to Florida four times

too wet and humid there, too many hurricanes, too many insects and reptiles

too many east coast retirees

Texas is way better

Not on the Gulf side.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 02, 2021, 02:05:05 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on September 02, 2021, 12:09:55 PM

The Wife & I came real close to buying something like this last year.  Kind of regret not buying it.  Plenty big enough for the two of us.  The debate has been retire and become snow birds.  House here and house in New England area or House and an RV or just as house and do the normal travel thing. Since my wife won't let me retire yet, I am in a current paralysis by analysis on what is the best decision.

Economics won't let me retire yet.

Looking forward to the day when it's my wife's decision ;-) 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 02, 2021, 02:09:09 PM

Tampa Bay is the birthplace of Death Metal. 

:035: :7505: 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 02, 2021, 02:12:20 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 02, 2021, 01:42:53 PM

Cali is WAY too expensive for this poor dirt farmer

and too liberal

I do really like the area north of San Fran

maybe I'll buy a lotto ticket

If you like the area north of San Fran, and you mean WAY north of San Fran, it's not nearly as expensive as you'd think for CA... 

Center your search say somewhere around Eureka if you want coastal forest, or around Mt Shasta if you want mountain, and you can find stuff. 

As long as you don't need to be somewhere where you can have a job, there are a lot of places in CA that are less expensive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 02, 2021, 02:17:37 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on September 02, 2021, 01:56:42 PM

The best part about living in an RV is that the cops can search your whole house every time you get pulled over for a minor traffic violation.

not that you'd have any experience with this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 02, 2021, 02:18:35 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 02, 2021, 02:12:20 PM

If you like the area north of San Fran, and you mean WAY north of San Fran, it's not nearly as expensive as you'd think for CA...

Center your search say somewhere around Eureka if you want coastal forest, or around Mt Shasta if you want mountain, and you can find stuff.

As long as you don't need to be somewhere where you can have a job, there are a lot of places in CA that are less expensive.

this would be fine, but I'd cringe at the taxes and cost of living

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 02, 2021, 02:25:21 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 02, 2021, 02:18:35 PM

this would be fine, but I'd cringe at the taxes and cost of living

Well, the bulk of taxes are on income.

Depending on how your retirement is structured, you may be able to keep those relatively low. 

Property tax in CA is surprisingly not that high. It's killer in places like where I live because the property values are so high, so a low percentage is still a ton of money. But up there it won't be that bad. 

Sales tax can be an issue. It doesn't apply to food, though, which helps. Up there, you might be close enough to Oregon to make it worth going over the border for large purchases to avoid it. 

So yeah, it'll be more expensive than some other places... But that area of the country is amazingly beautiful, the weather is great, and you're basically on the ocean. So you're getting something for that money. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 02, 2021, 02:28:48 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 02, 2021, 02:17:37 PM

not that you'd have any experience with this

For extra fun, try driving one across the Canadian Border. 

They'll give your RV a full rectal examination. We're talking X-Rays, and everything. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 02, 2021, 02:32:09 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 02, 2021, 02:12:20 PM

If you like the area north of San Fran, and you mean WAY north of San Fran, it's not nearly as expensive as you'd think for CA...

Center your search say somewhere around Eureka if you want coastal forest, or around Mt Shasta if you want mountain, and you can find stuff.

As long as you don't need to be somewhere where you can have a job, there are a lot of places in CA that are less expensive.

Like the east end of San Bernardino County? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2021, 02:35:23 PM

I mused about moving to Florida in an apt for a year, moving all my IRA to cash paying the tax, and then moving to CA.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 02, 2021, 04:15:25 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on September 02, 2021, 02:32:09 PM

Like the east end of San Bernardino County?

If you want to live in hell's waiting room, might as well just go to Arizona or Nevada instead. Lower taxes.

The reason people don't live in Eureka is because there aren't enough jobs. The reason people don't live in the east end of SBC is because it sucks. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 02, 2021, 04:20:55 PM

I just looked up pictures of Eureka, California-- it looks lovely.  Quite picturesque.  Too bad it's located in a shithole failed state. :(

Speaking of Eureka, did any of you ever watch the TV show on SyFy?  We watched it with the kids, they loved all the zany things that happen to all the nerds.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 02, 2021, 04:21:53 PM

Eureka Nevada has dubbed itself as "the friendliest town on the loneliest road in America"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 02, 2021, 04:25:00 PM

Quote from: utee94 on September 02, 2021, 04:20:55 PM

I just looked up pictures of Eureka, California-- it looks lovely.  Quite picturesque.  Too bad it's located in a shithole failed state. :(

Well, it's just one of 49 ;-) 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 02, 2021, 04:26:47 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 02, 2021, 04:25:00 PM

Well, it's just one of 49 ;-)

Quoted for truth.

What I wouldn't give to live on the 1/10th of a mile of acceptable beach, in the only acceptable state, in the whole of the USA.

Sucking sucks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 02, 2021, 04:28:59 PM

Quote from: utee94 on September 02, 2021, 04:26:47 PM

Quoted for truth.

What I wouldn't give to live on the 1/10th of a mile of acceptable beach, in the only acceptable state, in the whole of the USA.

Sucking sucks.

A couple million and you, too, can live in a place that's acceptable!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 02, 2021, 04:32:12 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on September 02, 2021, 04:21:53 PM

Eureka Nevada has dubbed itself as "the friendliest town on the loneliest road in America"

Been there, but can only confirm the second half.

If it’s where I’m thinking, it was on an incredible incline 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 02, 2021, 04:44:26 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on September 02, 2021, 04:32:12 PM

Been there, but can only confirm the second half.

If it’s where I’m thinking, it was on an incredible incline

They're not the ones that named it the loneliest road in America, but that distinction is inaccurate. It is not even the loneliest road in that state. Rt 6 is definitely lonelier than Rt 50, which traverses the Carson City/Reno area.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 02, 2021, 05:27:47 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on September 02, 2021, 04:44:26 PM

They're not the ones that named it the loneliest road in America, but that distinction is inaccurate. It is not even the loneliest road in that state. Rt 6 is definitely lonelier than Rt 50, which traverses the Carson City/Reno area.

Fair enough. 6 for the most part was lonely enough for me. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 02, 2021, 05:47:32 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on September 02, 2021, 05:27:47 PM

Fair enough. 6 for the most part was lonely enough for me.

You mean 50, if you were in Eureka. 

Ignoring that both are cross country highways, and focusing only on the Nevada portions (Rt 50 in Nevada was the one dubbed as the loneliest road, not the whole thing) it is indisputable. 


(https://east-usa.com/images/150-Nevada.jpg)

Rt 50 and Rt 6 share pavement from the Utah border to Ely. West of Ely they split.

Rt 50 goes through the State Capital and the Lake Tahoe region, which is populous. It also serves (on a grander scale) as a connector between the west end of Interstate 70 and Sacramento, CA.

Rout 6 on the other hand just sort of meanders through the wasteland between Reno and Vegas near Area 51, then ends abruptly at the first Highway that it encounters after crossing the California border. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 02, 2021, 05:53:36 PM

Whatevs. NV is empty a f. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 02, 2021, 06:02:47 PM

Yeah, that's what I like about it. 

Population density is overrated a f. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 02, 2021, 07:20:20 PM

BB, I agree.  The fewer people you interact with, the better.
.
btw, for any of you thinking about offing yourself, may I suggest Kingman, AZ?  I'm stunned every day I fail to see a headline stating that everyone living there has committed suicide.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 02, 2021, 07:29:08 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 02, 2021, 07:20:20 PM

BB, I agree.  The fewer people you interact with, the better.
.
btw, for any of you thinking about offing yourself, may I suggest Kingman, AZ?  I'm stunned every day I fail to see a headline stating that everyone living there has committed suicide.

OAM, have you joined the VHEMT (http://vhemt.org/)? You seem pretty sad about the state of humanity--I can't disagree--so I'm hoping that you've pledged not to continue the species... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2021, 07:33:27 PM

Ysitting on my deck, beautiful evening, the wife said she would fix dinner.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 02, 2021, 07:39:07 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 02, 2021, 07:33:27 PM

Ysitting on my deck, beautiful evening, the wife said she would fix dinner.

I'm on the hook for at least some of dinner. We're doing a spicy Thai beef salad, and at the VERY least I'm cooking the steak. Probably splitting a few other responsibilities too...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 02, 2021, 07:48:34 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 02, 2021, 07:29:08 PM

OAM, have you joined the VHEMT (http://vhemt.org/)? You seem pretty sad about the state of humanity--I can't disagree--so I'm hoping that you've pledged not to continue the species...

You're in luck!  I have no desire to produce offspring.  Everyone, rejoice!!!  
I don't even like taking out a loan, much less being on the hook for another human being's life for 20 years. 
No thanks!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on September 02, 2021, 09:07:19 PM

What part of tx are you looking at fearless ? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on September 02, 2021, 11:49:19 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 02, 2021, 02:05:05 PM

Economics won't let me retire yet.

Looking forward to the day when it's my wife's decision ;-)

wife is a bit younger than me and with another 6 years she will have health insurance provided when she retires and she doesn't want me to just hang around while she is working.  Though she has suggest I quit my current job and take another even if it is less money just to remove a bunch of the stress.

But Retirement is calling me in a very strong way

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on September 02, 2021, 11:52:38 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 02, 2021, 04:15:25 PM

If you want to live in hell's waiting room, might as well just go to Arizona or Nevada instead. Lower taxes.

The reason people don't live in Eureka is because there aren't enough jobs. The reason people don't live in the east end of SBC is because it sucks.

I love living in the Phoenix area. Can't imagine living anywhere else on a permanent basis

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 03, 2021, 12:38:24 AM

I haven't been to Kingman, but it looks okay to me. 

50 miles from Lake Havasu. 

Less than 100 miles from Vegas, less than 200 miles from Phoenix, with none of the hustle and bustle. 

Maybe there are a lot of rattle snakes or some such, I dunno. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 03, 2021, 09:37:55 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on September 02, 2021, 11:49:19 PM

wife is a bit younger than me and with another 6 years she will have health insurance provided when she retires and she doesn't want me to just hang around while she is working.  Though she has suggest I quit my current job and take another even if it is less money just to remove a bunch of the stress.

But Retirement is calling me in a very strong way

Me too, lately. On one hand, I'd do it today. On the other hand, the money's good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 03, 2021, 09:41:25 AM

Definitely not ready for retirement, I've got to get the kids through college first.  So another ten years for me.  No biggie, I like what I do well enough. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 03, 2021, 09:46:03 AM

I always said 55 and I'm done. Welllp, that's just months away now. Maybe I'll go to 57.

Maybe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 03, 2021, 09:57:49 AM

I love being retired.  I told myself I would start doing what I wanted to do now, no matter how silly it might seem, of course being considerate of my wife (who is a wonder, so that isn't hard).  I've been fortunate financially, the COVID thing really crimped out travels of course, I've taken to exploring restaurant options around the city on Wednesdays now (I've yet to be wowed).  I'm getting back into shape after 20+ years of sitting, that part isn't easy at all, but I have some goals for myself over time.  Your body past 65 starts having a lot of strange pains from nothing.  I'm signed up to play baseball in Nov and Jan at the Braves spring training facility, something I really love doing, and I'm still able to play reasonably well.  The ex-pros are great and it's a lot of fun to compete.

The odd thing, to me, is how I get up pretty early in the morning, hardly ever past 6:30, sometimes at 5 AM.  That was a struggle when I was working, getting up, and now I get up because I'm awake.  I'm a bit stuck working on Book 6, it's one I started way back, and I just am not into it, I'm thinking about starting something new.

We both really enjoy living where we are.  My advice for a retirement location is Number One live in a place that encourages walking.  If you can walk, your quality of life is way ahead of those who cannot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 03, 2021, 10:18:20 AM

Quote from: Gigem on September 02, 2021, 09:07:19 PM

What part of tx are you looking at fearless ?

well, my brother lives in Colleyville so somewhere near the DFW area
I'm a small town guy so perhaps a quiet area north and west of there out west of 35W near or on a golf course
speaking of retirement, I beat 847.  I retired at the end of June.  My ex-boss insisted.

retirement doesn't suck, but the money isn't good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 03, 2021, 10:27:27 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on September 03, 2021, 12:38:24 AM

I haven't been to Kingman, but it looks okay to me.

50 miles from Lake Havasu.

Less than 100 miles from Vegas, less than 200 miles from Phoenix, with none of the hustle and bustle.

Maybe there are a lot of rattle snakes or some such, I dunno.

I got a speeding ticked going through Kingman

on my way to Vegas in the mid 1970s

I lost the ticket and never paid it

I guess theres a warrant for my arrest in Kingman so Im not going back

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 03, 2021, 10:43:25 AM

Photos: 16 years later, how Atlantic Station continues to change | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/atlantic-station-shopping-restaurants-photos-microsoft)

Used to be a steel mill, then opened in 2005 with some fanfare, and was hurt in the recession, but seemingly has recovered now and is a something.  A bit sterile for my tastes, but interesting.  The condo tower is slowly turning into a decent place I'm told by a realtor.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 03, 2021, 10:48:26 AM

The airport Sheraton is to be imploded shortly to make room for another runway.

Sheraton Atlanta Airport Hotel Set for Sunday Implosion | What Now Atlanta (https://whatnowatlanta.com/sheraton-atlanta-airport-hotel-set-for-sunday-implosion/)

One could end up taxiing for a while if you land on an outer runway I suppose.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Geolion91 on September 03, 2021, 02:54:16 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 03, 2021, 09:46:03 AM

I always said 55 and I'm done. Welllp, that's just months away now. Maybe I'll go to 57.

Maybe.

That sounds like a federal job.  I have to get to 56 years and 10 months, so I'm 5 years out from minimum retirement age.

I'll probably go a few years past that, I have a big project that I want to see through to completion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 03, 2021, 03:08:11 PM

Haha. Not a Fed job.

Been self employed for 20+ years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 03, 2021, 03:45:49 PM

I retired at 56, pretty burned out at the time, ready to put that "job" well in the rear view.  My boss was annoyed I didn't invite any coworkers to my retirement party, which the company paid for, so he had to be there.  i asked him not to give a speech but he said he had to.  I am told he's still working, he was about my age at the time, 9 years ago.  He was always bucking for a promotion which would never come.  He's built up a ton of money by now, and has fewer years in which to enjoy it.

As my bosses went, he was in the "OK" category, I had some awful ones.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 03, 2021, 04:31:45 PM

I can retire at 53, but if I go 2 more years, I get like twice the monthly payout.  So that's an easy choice. 

That's not true, but it's y% of my income instead of x%, and 2 years more = a huge jump.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 03, 2021, 04:36:26 PM

The other advantage of working longer is you have fewer years to cover based solely on your retirement.  And it's nice if you get retiree health insurance.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 03, 2021, 05:32:05 PM

I'm so effing annoyed.

Schools don't give a S$&@ about parents. They just don't. They don't understand that parents have schedules, and that those schedules are [generally] the same all five days a week. 

So right now we've got two kids in a school (3rd and 8th grades), and my other son in a different school (7th grade) because he requires the special needs program. They're finally in the same district, and the schools are minutes from each other, which is good because dropoff/pickup was craziness having to coordinate between a school near my house in one district and their mom's house in another district.

So we're finally in a situation where the dropoff and pickup times are compatible...

...EXCEPT that for some unknown reason, the school for the two kids does "minimum day" on Wednesday. And the school for the other kid does "late start" on Monday. And that's every week--not like all the other random times they decide they need a "minimum day" for staff development or whatnot--because they don't have 3 months of summer to do staff development?

Why? Why is this a thing? The schools are now in their mom's school district, which means it's a 20 minute drive from my house. Luckily I don't have to deal with pickups (only dropoffs) on Wednesdays, so that's not an issue. But on Mondays I lose an entire extra hour of my day because dropoff is one hour later. I can drive home and back (which is 40 minutes of driving for 20 minutes home) or I can try to find a way to waste an hour and stay near the schools until he's dropped off.

Now my son in 8th grade is qualified for algebra--but OF COURSE they are making this a zero period class. So instead of dropping them off at 8:15 before going to drop my other son at ~8:30, I would now have to drop the 8th grader off at 7:30, have dead time until I drop my daughter off [at the same school] around 8ish, and then dead time until I drop my son off at the other school at ~8:30--except Monday, when it's 9:40 for no apparent reason.

I don't remember it being this way as a kid. I remember having the same school schedule 5 days a week. 

Is this just me? Was it always like this? Why do schools just completely ignore the fact that parents might actually have to have a predictable schedule day-to-day and week-to-week? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 03, 2021, 05:51:42 PM

wasn't and still isn't that goofy here in rural Iowa

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 03, 2021, 05:56:50 PM

That shit all started within the past decade. Kids need structure - a regular schedule.

This new flex crap is BS.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 03, 2021, 06:07:36 PM

With COVID last year, our school district started a Wednesday early-release.  It was something about the total hours per kid per year that were required to meet the state requirements, and COVID had screwed it all up.

But this year, they kept it for reasons they can't explain.  

It's weird, but at least all kids in the district share the same early release day, and since both of our kids ride bikes to school when weather is permitting (which is >90% around here), it doesn't affect us too much.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 03, 2021, 07:41:20 PM

early release don't help to get to a minimum number of hours

early release gets the teachers a break, and puts burden on parent's schedule

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 03, 2021, 08:12:55 PM

I'm taking notes over here...so many experts on the topic!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 03, 2021, 08:21:00 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 03, 2021, 08:12:55 PM

I'm taking notes over here...so many experts on the topic!

Actually I was hoping for your input... What's the deal with minimum days every week?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 03, 2021, 08:41:05 PM

Minimum days or Early dismissal days or half days exist because states require teachers to have a minimum number of professional development hours in order to renew their teaching certification.  In AZ, we have to renew every 6 years and have 300 PD hours.  
I don't know the legality of teachers acquiring those hours on our own or within our districts, but I do know that evidence for such things was always random as hell.  Some would electronically let the state know you had 6 hours on a certain date and others would literally print out a 'proof of PD' on colored paper.  Imagine collecting several dozen of those over 6 years and if you lose them, you're out of a job.  

Anyway, as a teacher, we hate these days.  It means we either smash 6-7 hours of instruction into 4 or more commonly, drop everything but reading and math that day.  The kids go home and we spend all afternoon doing district-chosen professional development.  Because we have to get those hours.  Not because it makes us better teachers.  

Scheduling these days was all over the place, initially.  Some did it on Fridays, others on Monday mornings.  The most common is Wednesdays.  

As for hating parents, districts just schedule things to screw the fewest number of people.  As someone with a mainstream student and a special needs student at a separate school, yeah, you're often going to be in the minority side that isn't getting a convenient schedule.  But 5 angry parents is better than 500, any way you slice it.

As for teachers and parents, we hate shitty parents.  Not the busy ones, not the ones who wish they had more time for their kid....the shitty ones who are actively bad for their child.  Theyre mostly ghosts anyway.  The parents we need to see most - we never see.  The ones we want to communicate with consistently - all of the phone numbers in the system are disconnected.  We don't like the parents that undo all the good we do every time their child goes home.

And we hate PD.  It's busy work.  We'd rather have a consistent schedule and just teach.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 03, 2021, 08:44:07 PM

ELA, how do you like those white 'State' helmets?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 03, 2021, 08:58:48 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 03, 2021, 05:56:50 PM

That shit all started within the past decade. Kids need structure - a regular schedule.

This new flex crap is BS.

It's interesting. When I was in HS, we had regular hours, but a rotating schedule. Your classes had an order, but they rotated. So Monday started with class 1, then Tuesday class 2, etc. with three days of block scheduling. To create a two-week schedule. It was odd. I think the point was that you had certain classes that weren't always right before lunch or at the end of the day.

Brad's point got me thinking about the oddities and sacrifices my parents made to get us to school. My mom worked three 12s, so she could often do most of it. My dad did the 20-minute AM drive because he worked 10 minutes away. When my mom couldn't pick us up, my dad would leave work early, drive the 30 minutes to get us home, then back to work, which was like 20 with light traffic, but could be more. That was a sacrifice. (We also went earlier for prayers. Which was partially because my mom wanted it, and in retrospect because my dad didn't hate the idea of getting to work earlier)

Then when I was in HS, we did bus in the morning early on, then some pickup scheme in the afternoon, usually. There were a slew of carpools, one that settled when my friend could drive, so he dropped his mom off at work near my house. then drove us. It was kind of a dystopian mess for him, but we weren't the sort that was buying a kid their own car. 

Weird to think about the production. It would've been easier to send me to the local public HS down the street, but it was decided (not by me) that I wouldn't thrive in a particularly chaotic environment. The school could be good, but you had to be willing to get brash with adults to make it happen, and I was unlikely to do that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 03, 2021, 09:13:46 PM

so, school admin and regulators screw things up for teachers, parents and students

makes sense

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 03, 2021, 09:21:54 PM

Yeah, someone gets an idea that teachers should have ongoing trainings.  Good idea.  Okay, let's make it a rule.  Done.  
No consideration how to do it, when to do it...no universal way to ensure it gets done.  No accountability.  No system.  

Kind of like the dog chasing the car with no plan for when he catches it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 03, 2021, 09:29:32 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 03, 2021, 09:21:54 PM

Kind of like the dog chasing the car with no plan for when he catches it.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ee5ybIaWkAAbUmF.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 03, 2021, 09:40:31 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 03, 2021, 09:21:54 PM

Yeah, someone gets an idea that teachers should have ongoing trainings.  Good idea.  Okay, let's make it a rule.  Done. 
No consideration how to do it, when to do it...no universal way to ensure it gets done.  No accountability.  No system. 

why not do it when the students are not scheduled to be in school?
just a thought

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on September 03, 2021, 10:00:06 PM

Dang. All my kids ride the bus to and from. I take the youngest a few times per month because he misses the bus. The oldest is 18 and has been driving himself the last few years. He’s going to the local community college for now. 

Does your school system just not have a bus system ?  Lots of kids my kids age wouldn’t ride the bus, but mine didn’t have a choice. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 03, 2021, 10:10:50 PM

back when my daughters were in school, had to take them to daycare which would see that they got to school because I had to be at work by 8am, then kids went back to daycar after school until I could pick them up after 5.

these days, the elementary have before the bell and after the bell programs.  Drop the kids off before going to work and then pick them up by 6 or so.  Much easier

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 03, 2021, 10:15:33 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 03, 2021, 08:41:05 PM

Minimum days or Early dismissal days or half days exist because states require teachers to have a minimum number of professional development hours in order to renew their teaching certification.  In AZ, we have to renew every 6 years and have 300 PD hours. 
I don't know the legality of teachers acquiring those hours on our own or within our districts, but I do know that evidence for such things was always random as hell.  Some would electronically let the state know you had 6 hours on a certain date and others would literally print out a 'proof of PD' on colored paper.  Imagine collecting several dozen of those over 6 years and if you lose them, you're out of a job. 

Anyway, as a teacher, we hate these days.  It means we either smash 6-7 hours of instruction into 4 or more commonly, drop everything but reading and math that day.  The kids go home and we spend all afternoon doing district-chosen professional development.  Because we have to get those hours.  Not because it makes us better teachers. 

Scheduling these days was all over the place, initially.  Some did it on Fridays, others on Monday mornings.  The most common is Wednesdays. 

As for hating parents, districts just schedule things to screw the fewest number of people.  As someone with a mainstream student and a special needs student at a separate school, yeah, you're often going to be in the minority side that isn't getting a convenient schedule.  But 5 angry parents is better than 500, any way you slice it.

As for teachers and parents, we hate shitty parents.  Not the busy ones, not the ones who wish they had more time for their kid....the shitty ones who are actively bad for their child.  Theyre mostly ghosts anyway.  The parents we need to see most - we never see.  The ones we want to communicate with consistently - all of the phone numbers in the system are disconnected.  We don't like the parents that undo all the good we do every time their child goes home.

And we hate PD.  It's busy work.  We'd rather have a consistent schedule and just teach. 

No I get it and I'm all for giving teachers the hours they need to navigate these requirements.

But in the case of our school district, the early release Wednesdays didn't exist pre-COVID.  Ten years in the district, and it wasn't there.  

If they changed it after a decade+ of not having it, for the sake of the teachers, then their messaging was poor (non-existent).  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 03, 2021, 10:17:02 PM

Quote from: Gigem on September 03, 2021, 10:00:06 PM

Dang. All my kids ride the bus to and from. I take the youngest a few times per month because he misses the bus. The oldest is 18 and has been driving himself the last few years. He’s going to the local community college for now.

Does your school system just not have a bus system ?  Lots of kids my kids age wouldn’t ride the bus, but mine didn’t have a choice.

I went to private schools. K-8, there was a public bus. Not sure about a school bus. HS there was a school bus that was just very expensive.

There was an odd case when I was in summer camp that I’d take the bus, which I later realized was like two blocks closer than the camp itself. But if you dropped a kid off at the camp, you had to get in a drop off line, and it was just easier. I suppose I should ask about that some day. Had I been a little more independent/old, it was a crazy easy walk.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 03, 2021, 10:18:12 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 03, 2021, 10:10:50 PM

back when my daughters were in school, had to take them to daycare which would see that they got to school because I had to be at work by 8am, then kids went back to daycar after school until I could pick them up after 5.

these days, the elementary have before the bell and after the bell programs.  Drop the kids off before going to work and then pick them up by 6 or so.  Much easier

My elementary/middle school did after the bell. It was not very engaging and maybe kinda pricy?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 03, 2021, 10:21:01 PM

perhaps there were snacks involved

I live a block from the elementary school, seems to be recess outdoors weather permitting

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 04, 2021, 12:30:59 AM

YMCA operates after-school care at my kids' former elementary school, we used them for several years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 04, 2021, 08:42:55 AM

"I want it said of me by those who knew me best, that I always plucked a thistle and planted a flower where I thought a flower would grow." - Abraham Lincoln

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 04, 2021, 08:56:57 AM

I need 54 PDH's every two years. So do all licensed engineers (30 PDH) and land surveyors (24).

That's what nights and weekends are for.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 04, 2021, 09:00:30 AM

land surveyors (24) - slackers

I was one and I still know a few

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 04, 2021, 09:01:32 AM

We need people. Apply within.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 04, 2021, 09:15:15 AM

they don't use people like back in the 80s

no need for a rodman or someone to hold the dumb end of the tape

probably don't even scribble in a field book any longer

are plumb bobs even in the tool box any longer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 04, 2021, 09:47:36 AM

In a few weeks we have to go to Chicago for a wedding. We are staying downtown, but won't be out and about.

Can no longer do that.

Two men are beaten and robbed in the middle of State Street as people walk by, drive past, and twerk up a storm (Video) | CWB Chicago (https://cwbchicago.com/2021/08/two-men-are-beaten-and-robbed-in-the-middle-of-state-street-as-people-walk-by-drive-past-and-twerk-up-a-storm-video.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 04, 2021, 09:52:27 AM

My hat is off to anyone who tries to organize a large Corvette outing. Experience will tell you they are challenging even on a good day.

To make it more challenging, try three starting locations, different routes, all converging for lunch at a designated time.

That’s what the Amazing Corvettes Club of Atlanta set out to do on a beautiful Saturday morning in July. We were fortunate enough to tag along to enjoy the fun and camaraderie.

The goal was for the three groups to rendezvous at the Hawg Wild BBQ & Catfish House in Young Harris for lunch.

Some of the routes club members took required over an hour of driving with portions over twisty North Georgia mountain roads to make it more exciting.

With precision planning that rivaled the Normandy invasion, all three groups arrived within 15 minutes of each other. All we could do was smile, nod our head in recognition and say, “You got to love it when a plan comes together.”

In the end, all the planning paid off because we had a good lunch overlooking a picturesque Lake Chatuge with fellow Corvette enthusiasts. Not sure life gets any better than this.

To top it off, the Memory Lane Car Museum was only three miles away!


https://vettesofatlanta.com/memory-lane-welcomes-atlantas-amazing-corvettes-club/ (https://vettesofatlanta.com/memory-lane-welcomes-atlantas-amazing-corvettes-club/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 04, 2021, 09:53:18 AM

A few days ago, General Motors executive Mark Reuss tweeted a photo from C8 Corvette Z06 testing that appears to show at least five of the car's test mules in a loading bay. Along with the photo, he shared the following:

"What an amazing week. So proud of this team. Those who know what these are and where this is at....well, you know. Z comes to life."


https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a37443454/take-a-peek-inside-corvettes-z06-lab/ (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a37443454/take-a-peek-inside-corvettes-z06-lab/)

(https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/e9zjdj3xeaalbmt-1630423610.jfif?crop=1.00xw:1.00xh;0,0&resize=640:*)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2021, 11:50:45 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/hvONQVS.jpg)

New place

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2021, 12:21:16 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 04, 2021, 11:50:45 AM

[img width=259.091 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/hvONQVS.jpg[/img]

New place

Ooh, they've got Ligurian fish... Order that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 04, 2021, 12:32:36 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2021, 12:21:16 PM

Ooh, they've got Ligurian fish... Order that.

Word.

One of the best meals I've ever had in my life was a Ligurian fish dish in a tiny trattoria in Riomaggiore.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2021, 01:00:07 PM

Quote from: utee94 on September 04, 2021, 12:32:36 PM

Word.

One of the best meals I've ever had in my life was a Ligurian fish dish in a tiny trattoria in Riomaggiore.

We were staying in Monterosso al Mare, so all three of our dinners were there. The first night was at L'Ancora della Tortuga (https://www.ristorantetortuga.it/en-gb/home), a really amazing restaurant built right into the side of the cliff. I had Ligurian fish there and it was amazing. 

I need to make that myself, to be honest. And then I need to go back to Italy. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 04, 2021, 01:21:10 PM

We stayed in Monterosso but ate various meals in most of the villages.  I couldn't tell you the name of the place we went in Riomaggiore, I don't think it even had a sign.  Some friends of ours who'd been a couple years earlier told us about it, and how to find it.

Kind of funny story, we got there around 3 in the afternoon and they were closing for lunch to reopen later for dinner.  They turned away a couple that showed up walking just behind us, but they waved us in.  I think they thought I was Italian, I have that look about me..  They started speaking Italian to me, and I played along as well as I could. :)

But that was definitely one of the most delicious meals I've ever had.

I want to go back desperately but our next Europe trip (Summer 2022) is going to be Budapest, Croatia, and Greece.  I suspect I'll find some decent seafood in the latter two locations...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2021, 01:27:25 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 03, 2021, 09:40:31 PM

why not do it when the students are not scheduled to be in school?
just a thought

We have official school hours, so you'd have to extend those.  And you'd have to pay the cost of keeping the power/water/AC on.  And you'd be keeping a largely female work staff past sunset, etc.  Plus, we already do our lesson planning and preparation outside of normal work hours already. 

Things they try to avoid.

Plus on top of what I've said, in my district, we have to do 8-12 additional hours of PD outside of school hours.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2021, 01:34:31 PM

Quote from: utee94 on September 03, 2021, 10:15:33 PM

No I get it and I'm all for giving teachers the hours they need to navigate these requirements.

But in the case of our school district, the early release Wednesdays didn't exist pre-COVID.  Ten years in the district, and it wasn't there. 

If they changed it after a decade+ of not having it, for the sake of the teachers, then their messaging was poor (non-existent). 

They were doing it for the sake of the district, so that they didn't lose teachers over failing to meet or failing to provide evidence of meeting the requirements.
Hell, one year on the Rez, I had an asshat HR lady (who was someone's cousin or whatever), tell me my certification was expiring and I needed to suddenly provide evidence of 300 hours of PD.  That district gave out a simple sheet of paper that basically said "I did this" for every 1-hour training we did.  So for like 3 days, I basically think I'm jobless and homeless (teacher housing is only for teachers on the Rez) as I scrounge around my house for every old PD paper I was given only to be told she was wrong and I was fine.  Which I thought i was, but that district was a dumpster fire.  They asked me for the same document 3-4 times because "they didn't have it on file."  
But the districts making sure everyone gets their hours and keeping track of it for the teachers is a safeguard against losing teachers who aren't organized.  Not many would be lost, but with the teacher shortages, you don't want to lose any because of a lack of evidence of busy work.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2021, 01:38:49 PM

As far as teaching/learning hours, each subject has a set number of minimum minutes per day that have to be taught.  They vary by grade level and by state.  And it can be an average.

So for science and social studies, it's low, like 30-40 min.  So we will do 2 weeks of one, to really get into a topic and explore it for 60-70 min a day, then switch and do 2 weeks of the other.
A 30-min lesson on a major science topic at the end of the day when you're cleaning up/packing up becomes useless and choppy.  So we maneuver the time around to make it more meaningful.

Everything we're in charge of and have autonomy to decide is what's best for our students.  I promise.  The horse shit stuff we have no control over is usually what parents complain about, and should.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2021, 01:39:09 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2021, 01:27:25 PM

We have official school hours, so you'd have to extend those.  And you'd have to pay the cost of keeping the power/water/AC on.  And you'd be keeping a largely female work staff past sunset, etc.  Plus, we already do our lesson planning and preparation outside of normal work hours already.

Things they try to avoid.

Plus on top of what I've said, in my district, we have to do 8-12 additional hours of PD outside of school hours. 

I get all that... I still feel that the schools either don't know how disruptive this is to parents, or they just don't care. 

Not the teachers. I don't think the teachers really want to deal with as much bullsh!t PDH as they have to do, and I know that the teachers want involved [to an extent] and supportive parents. 

But my guess is that the teachers' union would rather reduce actual school teaching hours than they'd support additional burdens on teachers outside of normal instruction hours. And my guess is that the school districts are more beholden to keeping the union happy and costs as minimal as possible [good point about the power/water/AC etc] than they are to keeping parents happy--the parents don't have much choice in the matter. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2021, 01:48:44 PM

I had salmon over lentils, was solid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2021, 04:54:00 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2021, 01:39:09 PM

I get all that... I still feel that the schools either don't know how disruptive this is to parents, or they just don't care.

Not the teachers. I don't think the teachers really want to deal with as much bullsh!t PDH as they have to do, and I know that the teachers want involved [to an extent] and supportive parents.

But my guess is that the teachers' union would rather reduce actual school teaching hours than they'd support additional burdens on teachers outside of normal instruction hours. And my guess is that the school districts are more beholden to keeping the union happy and costs as minimal as possible [good point about the power/water/AC etc] than they are to keeping parents happy--the parents don't have much choice in the matter.

Like with many things, a teacher's union is state-to-state.  Nothing like that in AZ. 
It actually pisses me off that we even have a state superintendent that makes formal, public statements speaking out against every decision Governor Ducey makes because she has absolutely no power.  He and his far-right state senate can pass all the crap they want in education, and all she can do is post statements.  
So no one IN education has any actual power.

If you go back to a sentence you typed:  "...would rather reduce actual school teaching hours than they'd support additional burdens on the teachers outside of normal instruction hours" is probably true of every group in every field.  So I guess I just shrug at that.  Our baseline jobs already require that of us.  We're not going to work 12 hours a day, sorry.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 05, 2021, 03:00:08 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2021, 01:39:09 PM

I get all that... I still feel that the schools either don't know how disruptive this is to parents, or they just don't care.

...

But my guess is that the teachers' union would rather reduce actual school teaching hours than they'd support additional burdens on teachers outside of normal instruction hours. And my guess is that the school districts are more beholden to keeping the union happy and costs as minimal as possible [good point about the power/water/AC etc] than they are to keeping parents happy--the parents don't have much choice in the matter.

I'm trying to wrestle with the tone here. Because the way it's phrased, I don't totally see a way out.

Before I go further, when you say normal instruction hours, do you mean in the course of just a week?

Edit: I'm more awake and can phrase it better. 

You've pointed out, you want them to provide more consistent childcare. Which is a good goal. But working outside normal instruction hours is going to have costs. It's already a job that often has a decent amount of unpaid spillover time. So that extra time is gonna end up being time and a half. Also, there's a basic question of what it means to make something officially more than a 40-hour-per week job (as compared to unofficially now). Your time is valuable, but so it their's.

The most logical solution would probably be to push PD into the summer hours, but that increases the costs of personnel 2.5-5 percent, which isn't small, plus incidentals, depending on how much time these hours take. There could also be the plan of paying for some kind of staffing to organize something in those extra hours, but that likewise costs resources. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 05, 2021, 07:49:29 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 04, 2021, 01:48:44 PM

I had salmon over lentils, was solid.

Some dewd on a forum shared the magic of basmati that would have went well there.Over the sink on paper plates and you favorite box of wine

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 05, 2021, 08:24:29 AM

We use basmati 100%.  My surveys of local restaurants continues, it's the wife's Bday, and I have a res at Fogo de Chao up the road a bit.  She often mentioned wanting to go there.  AYCE is generally not my kind of place and I usually prefer something other than cow when dining out.  I might just do their salad bar.

Her "sister" lives in Brazil and we actually went to one in Rio when we visited.  It was much like the ones here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 05, 2021, 08:26:53 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 04, 2021, 09:01:32 AM

We need people. Apply within.

Land surveyors or land thieves?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 05, 2021, 08:28:12 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 04, 2021, 09:15:15 AM

are plumb bobs even in the tool box any longer

They should be along with dowsing rods

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 05, 2021, 08:33:04 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 04, 2021, 11:50:45 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/hvONQVS.jpg)

New place

What's with the rawhide dog bones on the table?Check out back if there are dog collars in the dumpster I'd have to advise you to take a hard pass

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: TyphonInc on September 05, 2021, 08:37:34 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on September 05, 2021, 08:33:04 AM

What's with the rawhide dog bones on the table?Check out back if there are dog collars in the dumpster I'd have to advise you to take a hard pass

LOL. Most of us call those rawhides ... napkins. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 05, 2021, 08:41:33 AM

Headed out to Boca Grande today. Water is smooth and little rain in the forecast, and the tide is rising.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 05, 2021, 08:48:26 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on September 05, 2021, 08:33:04 AM

What's with the rawhide dog bones on the table?Check out back if there are dog collars in the dumpster I'd have to advise you to take a hard pass

Ha.  I don't know where their refuse goes in this place, it's part of a larger complex with a food court that has been amazingly popular with "kids".  The place was first built in 1968 when the area was "sketchy" and was recently majorly overhauled into what is a very nice mall and retail area.  This originally was an covered ice skating rink with some shops, it never really worked back then.  There's a lot more to it than this photo shows.  They did a nice job I think.  The food hall is under where the IPC is.  They do comedy and singing shows on weekdays, we talked about trying them out, it's a short walk for us.


(https://i.imgur.com/4RW0ipY.png)
A Persian restaurant is slated to open on the outside "soon".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 06, 2021, 12:32:38 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/mxo5dXv.png)

Airport Sheraton 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 06, 2021, 12:36:13 PM

These 26 words that can make you sound smarter—but most people use the wrong way (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/06/words-that-make-you-sound-smarter-but-most-people-use-the-wrong-way-according-to-grammar-experts.html)


Penultimate is a word I see misused a lot also.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 06, 2021, 01:11:53 PM

My most hated word misuse is "supposably".....which isn't a word at all, to my knowledge.  It's "supposedly."  I'd estimate maybe 70-75% say it wrong. 

And the pronunciation of "colonel" makes me want to put up my fists and fight.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 06, 2021, 01:21:42 PM

You should hear the French say "colonel".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 06, 2021, 05:14:14 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 06, 2021, 01:11:53 PM

My most hated word misuse is "supposably".....which isn't a word at all, to my knowledge.  It's "supposedly."  I'd estimate maybe 70-75% say it wrong.

And the pronunciation of "colonel" makes me want to put up my fists and fight.

I hate that one as well, but don't hear it from anywhere near that many people. Maybe 20% in my circles?

The one I hate is "might of" or "could of" instead of "have". 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 06, 2021, 05:58:29 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 06, 2021, 05:14:14 PM

I hate that one as well, but don't hear it from anywhere near that many people. Maybe 20% in my circles?

The one I hate is "might of" or "could of" instead of "have".

There's a guy on another board that always says "rather" in place of "whether." Very peculiar. 

Then there are of course those people that place their periods outside of their quotation marks as though they were question marks or exclamation points.... :d030:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 06, 2021, 06:03:22 PM

Irregardless, some people don't know talking good like you and me, and their vocabulistics is limited.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 06, 2021, 06:07:10 PM

You could always go ALL CAPS, like a professional athlete. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 06, 2021, 06:10:19 PM

My pet grammar mistake is using a helping verb with the word went

You use helping verbs with gone not went

He went to the store is fine

He could have went to the store is not

should be could have gone 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 06, 2021, 06:12:08 PM

I have a friend who mutilates the old idiom, "Six of one, half a dozen of the other."  

Instead, he says, "One half dozen of the other."

He is an otherwise intelligent and well-read person.  I have no idea why he does this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 06, 2021, 06:28:25 PM

Back in the '70s Miller Lite did a commercial like this.Some guy I think named norm  "people say I misrenounce things all the time......" he goes on to butcher his take but I'd never heard of him before or since

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 06, 2021, 06:29:13 PM

He could just be alluding to the phrase and saving time on it.  Either you get the reference and know the full phrase or you don't and go on about your business.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 06, 2021, 06:30:18 PM

I also like to type how I speak.  
And everyone needs to keep in mind that language is fluid, so while there are rules you can adhere to, they are only the rules for a moment in time.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 06, 2021, 06:36:24 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 06, 2021, 06:30:18 PM

I also like to type how I speak. 
And everyone needs to keep in mind that language is fluid, so while there are rules you can adhere to, they are only the rules for a moment in time. 

Supposably there are rules, but I'm not so certain.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 06, 2021, 06:49:03 PM

Quote from: utee94 on September 06, 2021, 06:12:08 PM

I have a friend who mutilates the old idiom, "Six of one, half a dozen of the other." 

Instead, he says, "One half dozen of the other."

He is an otherwise intelligent and well-read person.  I have no idea why he does this.

"half of one, six dozen of the other."

I hope that they were just screwing with me, but doubt it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 06, 2021, 06:58:04 PM

Quote from: utee94 on September 06, 2021, 06:36:24 PM

Supposably there are rules, but I'm not so certain.

kinda like whether a person is male or female

that used to be kinda fixed now its whatever the person wants to be

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: EastAthens on September 06, 2021, 07:10:19 PM

_{I have a buddy who says mano mano instead of mano a mano and makes it rhyme with can and looks at me like I am a lunatic when I correct him.  He IS an Auburn grad.} 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 06, 2021, 08:31:49 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on September 06, 2021, 05:58:29 PM

There's a guy on another board that always says "rather" in place of "whether." Very peculiar.

Then there are of course those people that place their periods outside of their quotation marks as though they were question marks or exclamation points.... :d030:

That's a rule I knowingly and deliberately break. Unless I'm actually quoting punctuation, wouldn't it create confusion as to whether the punctuation is mine or is from the original?

Quote from: utee94 on September 06, 2021, 06:12:08 PM

I have a friend who mutilates the old idiom, "Six of one, half a dozen of the other." 

Instead, he says, "One half dozen of the other."

He is an otherwise intelligent and well-read person.  I have no idea why he does this.

There are a lot of people who say "I could care less" when they should say "I couldn't care less."

I had a boss from Pakistan who split the difference and would just explain in those situations, "Hey, I care less, alright!"

Which, oddly enough, works.

(Brutus, notice how I put the punctuation in that one because I was quoting an exclamation?)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 06, 2021, 08:41:35 PM

Yes. Although I know the proper rules, I too alter where I place punctuation within or outside quotation marks, in order to convey the intended context more clearly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 06, 2021, 08:57:25 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on September 06, 2021, 06:58:04 PM

kinda like whether a person is male or female

that used to be kinda fixed now its whatever the person wants to be

You're the victim, right?  It's just gender vs sex.  Not a big deal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 06, 2021, 08:57:44 PM

Quote from: utee94 on September 06, 2021, 08:41:35 PM

Yes. Although I know the proper rules, I too alter where I place punctuation within or outside quotation marks, in order to convey the intended context more clearly.

That's all language is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on September 06, 2021, 09:34:01 PM

I'll be here to break some balls when people start describing an idle week as a 'bye'.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 06, 2021, 09:36:01 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 06, 2021, 08:57:25 PM

You're the victim, right?  It's just gender vs sex.  Not a big deal.

women athletes are for sure victims

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 06, 2021, 10:26:04 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2021, 01:27:25 PM

We have official school hours, so you'd have to extend those.  And you'd have to pay the cost of keeping the power/water/AC on.  And you'd be keeping a largely female work staff past sunset, etc.  Plus, we already do our lesson planning and preparation outside of normal work hours already.

Things they try to avoid.

Plus on top of what I've said, in my district, we have to do 8-12 additional hours of PD outside of school hours. 

I was thinking about Xmas break or Spring break or summer vacation

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 06, 2021, 11:05:15 PM

Then we wouldn't be 10-month employees, and you'd have to change that and pay more.  

Year-round school with no holiday breaks....good luck getting rural southerners to buy into that one.  They'd call it unamerican.  Move to Japan.  

Plus moving all PD into 60 hours (7-8 working days) in the summer would be an admission that it's busy work.  Theyre sprinkled throughout the school year so that teachers can take each afternoon's invaluable training and apply it in the classroom.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 07, 2021, 05:51:39 AM

Quote from: MarqHusker on September 06, 2021, 09:34:01 PM

I'll be here to break some balls when people start describing an idle week as a 'bye'.

😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 07, 2021, 09:27:43 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 06, 2021, 10:26:04 PM

I was thinking about Xmas break or Spring break or summer vacation

Christmas.

Thank you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 07, 2021, 09:37:20 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 06, 2021, 11:05:15 PM

Then we wouldn't be 10-month employees, and you'd have to change that and pay more. 

Year-round school with no holiday breaks....good luck getting rural southerners to buy into that one.  They'd call it unamerican.  Move to Japan. 

Plus moving all PD into 60 hours (7-8 working days) in the summer would be an admission that it's busy work.  Theyre sprinkled throughout the school year so that teachers can take each afternoon's invaluable training and apply it in the classroom.

I'm fine with paying teachers more

the kids still get breaks, so do the teachers, it's just the teachers don't get a 3 week break for Christmas and work another week in May, maybe an earlier week in August
They're sprinkled throughout the school year so's teachers can have pizza parties

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 07, 2021, 10:00:50 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 06, 2021, 08:31:49 PM

That's a rule I knowingly and deliberately break. Unless I'm actually quoting punctuation, wouldn't it create confusion as to whether the punctuation is mine or is from the original?
There are a lot of people who say "I could care less" when they should say "I couldn't care less."

I had a boss from Pakistan who split the difference and would just explain in those situations, "Hey, I care less, alright!"

Which, oddly enough, works.

(Brutus, notice how I put the punctuation in that one because I was quoting an exclamation?)

Well then shouldn't you have finished it with your own period, by your own alternate logic? 

Like this? 

"Hey, I care less, alright!". 

I am just busting your chops though. Like 95% of all posters put their periods outside of their quotation marks. It's like they see each other doing it and just assume that it is correct, but you'd never see it that way in a novel or any other professional publication. Question marks and exclamation points can go inside or outside, depending on if they are part of the quote. Periods and commas always go inside, unless of course you are on a message board. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 07, 2021, 10:11:07 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 06, 2021, 11:05:15 PM

Then we wouldn't be 10-month employees, and you'd have to change that and pay more. 

Year-round school with no holiday breaks....good luck getting rural southerners to buy into that one.  They'd call it unamerican.  Move to Japan. 

Plus moving all PD into 60 hours (7-8 working days) in the summer would be an admission that it's busy work.  Theyre sprinkled throughout the school year so that teachers can take each afternoon's invaluable training and apply it in the classroom.

Here's my thought... 

• 1 week (~40 PDH) of training the week prior to start of classes. You can't call that busy work that won't apply in the classroom since it's right before the school year starts.
• My kids get 3 days off during Thanksgiving week and then the holiday. That's another 24 PDH. Not all schools do this.
• They get 2 weeks off for Christmas. I'm not going to be a heartless jerk and say that teachers should devote all non-holiday days in that window to PDH, but maybe another 3-4 days in that window would be up to another 24 PDH. 
• Spring Break gets you another 40 PDH.
• If the school has a midwinter break (aka "Ski Week") in Feb, that could be another 40 PDH. Not all schools do this. 

That's a minimum of 100+ PDH, and depending on when additional breaks come, could be another 60 or so. 

I think I remember you saying something about 300 PDH needed per year? That seems quite high, since that's 7.5 weeks of 40 hour weeks to get it... Did I read that wrong or is that accurate. 

If accurate, would there be a way to fit the rest in without having minimum days every week? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 07, 2021, 04:24:48 PM

https://www.lakerabunhotel.com/about/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 07, 2021, 04:31:51 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on September 07, 2021, 10:00:50 AM

.
I am just busting your chops though. Like 95% of all posters put their periods outside of their quotation marks. It's like they see each other doing it and just assume that it is correct, but you'd never see it that way in a novel or any other professional publication. Question marks and exclamation points can go inside or outside, depending on if they are part of the quote. Periods and commas always go inside, unless of course you are on a message board.

Prolly because we're American 

https://socratic.org/questions/does-a-period-go-before-or-after-quotation-marks

In American style, the period always comes before the closing quotation marks (https://socratic.org/english-grammar/punctuation/quotation-marks). In the British style, the placement of the period depends upon whether the period is logically part of the quoted material.
Explanation:
The American style was developed based on typography. When setting up type, requiring the period to precede the quotation marks allowed better kerning.
The advantage of the American style is that it provided an invariant (although not always logical) rule.
In the British style, the period is placed inside the quotation marks if it is logically belongs there. It is place after the quotation marks if it is not logically part of the quoted material.

 the correct answer might be dependent on local rules.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 07, 2021, 04:34:27 PM

Punctuation talk not going away...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 07, 2021, 04:48:30 PM

Interesting. I might have to revise my usage. Because 'Murica.

Not going to let those limeys tell me how to punctuate! 1776! 1776! 1776!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 07, 2021, 04:49:26 PM

I want to know what sort of magic goes into the Mr Clean Magic Eraser.

I mean, I don't believe in magic, but that damn thing works so well that I might have to change my position on supernatural phenomena.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 07, 2021, 04:57:33 PM

Quote from: utee94 on September 07, 2021, 04:34:27 PM

Punctuation talk not going away...

take it to the Mr. N's whimsical postings... thread

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 07, 2021, 05:28:32 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 07, 2021, 10:11:07 AM

Here's my thought...

• 1 week (~40 PDH) of training the week prior to start of classes. You can't call that busy work that won't apply in the classroom since it's right before the school year starts.
• My kids get 3 days off during Thanksgiving week and then the holiday. That's another 24 PDH. Not all schools do this.
• They get 2 weeks off for Christmas. I'm not going to be a heartless jerk and say that teachers should devote all non-holiday days in that window to PDH, but maybe another 3-4 days in that window would be up to another 24 PDH.
• Spring Break gets you another 40 PDH.
• If the school has a midwinter break (aka "Ski Week") in Feb, that could be another 40 PDH. Not all schools do this.

That's a minimum of 100+ PDH, and depending on when additional breaks come, could be another 60 or so.

I think I remember you saying something about 300 PDH needed per year? That seems quite high, since that's 7.5 weeks of 40 hour weeks to get it... Did I read that wrong or is that accurate.

If accurate, would there be a way to fit the rest in without having minimum days every week?

I’m a bit unclear about the Thanksgiving part? Do your kids only go to school Monday?

This would probably be fine as long as there’s the budget for it. 100 extra hours would be a 4.8 percent raise for a normal work schedule. So probably more for the teachers.

I wonder if there is some kind of activity alternative, though maybe that would cost more. Like a before or after school program.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 07, 2021, 05:39:01 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on September 07, 2021, 05:28:32 PM

I’m a bit unclear about the Thanksgiving part? Do your kids only go to school Monday?

This would probably be fine as long as there’s the budget for it. 100 extra hours would be a 4.8 percent raise for a normal work schedule. So probably more for the teachers.

I wonder if there is some kind of activity alternative, though maybe that would cost more. Like a before or after school program.

Sorry, I was already taking as a given that the kids were off the Friday after Thanksgiving, and was saying they get the three days prior to Thanksgiving off. But I did not word that clearly at all. 

I run into other problems with before/after school programs do to my unique custody situation.

Prior to COVID, I was able to put the two kids in the charter school into an after-school program on a day-by-day basis, so on the days I needed to pick them up, I could do so after 5 PM. It DID cost more, but at least I was paying for each individual day (at a premium to the weekly rate) rather than having to pay a weekly rate and just wasting the money on the days they didn't go. That program was replaced during COVID with one that was an every day program, and since their mom didn't want to use it (or pay for it), I bit the bullet and just picked them up when I needed. 

For my other son (with special needs), he's never had an after-school or before-school program that could be anything but an all-week program and thus was cost-prohibitive. But at least prior to this year, he was in a school much closer to me. So for afternoon pickups, I could easily just get over there and pick him up in <20 minutes door to door, and then go get the other two from their after-school program later. For this new school, where Mondays are "late start" days, because it's a middle school they don't even have any child care or other programs for Monday mornings. 

I suppose it would be easiest if I just move to Austin and only have the kids for the summers. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 07, 2021, 07:04:12 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 07, 2021, 09:37:20 AM

I'm fine with paying teachers more

the kids still get breaks, so do the teachers, it's just the teachers don't get a 3 week break for Christmas and work another week in May, maybe an earlier week in August
They're sprinkled throughout the school year so's teachers can have pizza parties

Everyone is fine with paying teachers more......until it's time to pay teachers more.
.
I'm not really following the rest of this.  As for parties, yeah, we're allowed 3 of those for the year, and they're basically the last  hour of the day.  
School isn't like it used to be.  No nap time in kindergarten.  Testing testing testing.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 07, 2021, 07:08:40 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 07, 2021, 10:11:07 AM

Here's my thought...

• 1 week (~40 PDH) of training the week prior to start of classes. You can't call that busy work that won't apply in the classroom since it's right before the school year starts.
• My kids get 3 days off during Thanksgiving week and then the holiday. That's another 24 PDH. Not all schools do this.
• They get 2 weeks off for Christmas. I'm not going to be a heartless jerk and say that teachers should devote all non-holiday days in that window to PDH, but maybe another 3-4 days in that window would be up to another 24 PDH.
• Spring Break gets you another 40 PDH.
• If the school has a midwinter break (aka "Ski Week") in Feb, that could be another 40 PDH. Not all schools do this.

That's a minimum of 100+ PDH, and depending on when additional breaks come, could be another 60 or so.

I think I remember you saying something about 300 PDH needed per year? That seems quite high, since that's 7.5 weeks of 40 hour weeks to get it... Did I read that wrong or is that accurate.

If accurate, would there be a way to fit the rest in without having minimum days every week?

It's 300 hours every 6 years in AZ.  
There's plenty of ways to fit in the hours besides early dismissal days.  I'm not sure why early dismissal days became a thing.  Many districts do it every single Wednesday now.  


As a teacher, I want prep time.  Planning time.  That way, I can be a better teacher - the students will benefit.  Professional development is not that.  It's reading an article, it's learning a new fad, etc.  

Every minute I'm on-campus without students there that I have to spend not prepping for my own class makes me want to walk off a cliff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 07, 2021, 07:33:42 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 07, 2021, 07:08:40 PM

It's 300 hours every 6 years in AZ. 
There's plenty of ways to fit in the hours besides early dismissal days.  I'm not sure why early dismissal days became a thing.  Many districts do it every single Wednesday now. 

As a teacher, I want prep time.  Planning time.  That way, I can be a better teacher - the students will benefit.  Professional development is not that.  It's reading an article, it's learning a new fad, etc. 

Every minute I'm on-campus without students there that I have to spend not prepping for my own class makes me want to walk off a cliff.

50 hours a year? Yeah, that shouldn't require early dismissal days. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 07, 2021, 07:38:22 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 07, 2021, 07:08:40 PM

Every minute I'm on-campus without students there that I have to spend not prepping for my own class makes me want to walk off a cliff.

I hear ya, but keep in mind that almost every profession has similar requirements.  I have to endure ~80-100 hours per year of professional development courses and ethics and compliance training.  It's mind-numbing.

One of the few good things about the pandemic is that all of that training has moved to online, rather than in-person.  So I can actually be doing some actual work on screen2 and screen3 while "training" is on screen1.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 07, 2021, 07:49:14 PM

Quote from: utee94 on September 07, 2021, 07:38:22 PM

I hear ya, but keep in mind that almost every profession has similar requirements.  I have to endure ~80-100 hours per year of professional development courses and ethics and compliance training.  It's mind-numbing.

One of the few good things about the pandemic is that all of that training has moved to online, rather than in-person.  So I can actually be doing some actual work on screen2 and screen3 while "training" is on screen1.

Hmm, that's way more than I'm required to do. You're in management though, right? I suspect if I get any direct reports, it'll ramp up my required course load.

Right now I know we get ethics & compliance pretty much annually, and I think workplace violence is biannual as is the harassment training. But I think it ends up being <10 hours annually for me.

When I was a manager there were a lot more assigned trainings, but still not 80-100 hours per year.

There have been a lot of years I've voluntarily consumed WAY more than I was mandated to complete, but that was my own choice for my own development.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 07, 2021, 07:58:00 PM

Nah I'm not a manager anymore, but my division's EVP is gung-ho on the training.  Before COVID, we'd do a full 40 hours with everyone under my VP in town for a week, around 400 people.  The training was brutal, but the dinners and after-hours stuff was usually a lot of fun, getting to see my friends and coworkers in from all over the country.

And then another ~40-50 hours of additional solo in-person training for other stuff, working on the team's core competencies as they related to corporate goals.  

As you might be able to figure out, we have a lot of consulting firm influence in our division.  The EVP's besties.  Mostly McKinsey and Bain dudes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 07, 2021, 08:20:36 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on September 07, 2021, 04:31:51 PM

Prolly because we're American

https://socratic.org/questions/does-a-period-go-before-or-after-quotation-marks

In American style, the period always comes before the closing quotation marks (https://socratic.org/english-grammar/punctuation/quotation-marks). In the British style, the placement of the period depends upon whether the period is logically part of the quoted material.
Explanation:
The American style was developed based on typography. When setting up type, requiring the period to precede the quotation marks allowed better kerning.
The advantage of the American style is that it provided an invariant (although not always logical) rule.
In the British style, the period is placed inside the quotation marks if it is logically belongs there. It is place after the quotation marks if it is not logically part of the quoted material.

 the correct answer might be dependent on local rules.

To this I say "I'm sick of you English, always acting like you invented the language!". 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 07, 2021, 08:28:15 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 07, 2021, 07:33:42 PM

50 hours a year? Yeah, that shouldn't require early dismissal days.

I don't think anyone said it requires them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 07, 2021, 09:11:16 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 07, 2021, 08:28:15 PM

I don't think anyone said it requires them.

True, but I was the one who started this vein of conversation complaining about early dismissal and later starts every week at my kids' two schools, wondering why. You responded talking about PDH.

Hence the link.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 07, 2021, 09:31:15 PM

It's the avenue schools have largely taken.  They didn't have to, though.
As I said before, at the end of the day, they want to burden as few people as possible and you're in the 'burdened' camp.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 07, 2021, 10:04:00 PM

they don't want to burden the teacher's union

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 07, 2021, 10:07:06 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 07, 2021, 09:31:15 PM

It's the avenue schools have largely taken.  They didn't have to, though.
As I said before, at the end of the day, they want to burden as few people as possible and you're in the 'burdened' camp.

Seems to me that when the question comes up over who should be burdened, parents are always first on the list. Because it's not like most parents can do anything about it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 07, 2021, 10:10:52 PM

As a fan of the C8 hardtop convertibles, we aren’t surprised to hear how many Corvette buyers are opting for C8 Corvette models with the retractable hardtops vs the coupe model. After all, the convertible offers exotic car looks and no sacrifices for the storage of the roof. With the ability to lower the top in 16 seconds, you are always ready to experience topdown driving wherever your travels take you.


Corvette Product Manager Harlan Charles was at the National Corvette Museum’s 27th Anniversary Celebration last week and part of his seminar was the discussion of the 2021 model year statistics. Chevrolet says they are building a total of 26,216 Corvettes for the 2021 model year which should wrap up later this week.

According to the final 2021 Corvette model year statistics, 42% of Corvette buyers chose the convertible model vs 58% who opted for the Coupe which allows you to see the LT2 under its rear glass. In terms of raw numbers, that’s approximately 11,010 convertibles vs 15,206 coupes.

Harlan said he wasn’t really surprised by the success of the hardtop convertible C8 Corvette, and he believes that we could actually see that number growing even higher in the future.

The Convertible model adds an additional $7,500 to the price of the car, and the 2021 Corvette stats revealed that convertible buyers are more likely to spring for the 3LT trim package by 52% vs 40% who choose the 2LT package and 8% who selected the base model. By contrast, the majority of buyers for the Coupe outfitted their cars with the 2LT package by 47% vs 33% for the 3LT and 20% who selected the base 1LT model.



Buyers can also choose how to customize the convertible models. The Carbon Flash Roof/Nacelles option (D84) represents 35% of all Convertibles while the Carbon Flash Nacelles-only option (D86) accounts for just 9% of orders. That leaves a majority of 2021 Convertibles (56%) being ordered in body color without the enhancements.

Corvette has seen a resurgent in convertible sales with the introduction of the hardtop convertible model as sales numbers haven’t been this good since 1969 when 43% of buyers choose the 1969 Stingray Convertible.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 07, 2021, 10:27:14 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 07, 2021, 10:07:06 PM

Seems to me that when the question comes up over who should be burdened, parents are always first on the list. Because it's not like most parents can do anything about it.

I don't think you're being objective. 
If a school is screwing over its parents more than it has to, the school board hears about it and takes action.  Better yet, since school boards are simply made up of community members who want to be school board members, parents can just join theirs and boss around the principals.

The word I'd describe schools' attitude towards parents is "predictive."  Yes, we can do that, no, they won't go for that.  Schools honestly take the path of least resistance whenever possible. 
The big, 30 thousand feet decisions aren't at the school level anyway.  Your ire should probably be aimed at the school board (again, made up of random community members) or the state level.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 08, 2021, 08:06:45 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 07, 2021, 07:04:12 PM

Everyone is fine with paying teachers more......until it's time to pay teachers more.
.
I'm not really following the rest of this.  As for parties, yeah, we're allowed 3 of those for the year, and they're basically the last  hour of the day. 
School isn't like it used to be.  No nap time in kindergarten.  Testing testing testing. 

Never heard of that. When was that a thing?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 08, 2021, 08:43:00 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 08, 2021, 08:06:45 AM

Never heard of that. When was that a thing?

It was a thing for this guy in the pandemic, and that wasn't bad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 08, 2021, 08:49:28 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 07, 2021, 10:07:06 PM

Seems to me that when the question comes up over who should be burdened, parents are always first on the list. Because it's not like most parents can do anything about it.

This is probably half true. As OAM said, you could probably put the work into making it happen. It would take a bunch of time and probably cost you and the other parents (and local non-parents) money in the long term. 

This issue, of course, is that parents as a group are probably getting the most out of the arrangement. Like a relatively ridiculous amount of value. Which of course means sort of bad position when it comes to not catching extra responsibility. 

(This has me thinking about a podcasts I listened to, where a dad came into a school with an idea and sort of flexed his ability as a professional fundraiser, which made him a certain kind of valuable. Interesting story about school dynamics and race in NY)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 08, 2021, 09:21:29 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on September 08, 2021, 08:49:28 AM

(This has me thinking about a podcasts I listened to, where a dad came into a school with an idea and sort of flexed his ability as a professional fundraiser, which made him a certain kind of valuable. Interesting story about school dynamics and race in NY)

(https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/know_how_to_party_waynes_world.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 13, 2021, 12:01:55 PM

Musing about getting fired for being truthful ...

A long time ago, the VP of the patent division called me into a meeting with him.  I had no idea why I was there, the other parties were directors and VPs talking about their Big Project.  They ambled on for a while talking about how great it was and finally Ken, the patent VP (nice guy) asked about their IP (patent protection etc.).  The VP, a lady I knew a bit, said they had it all wrapped up, great protection, patents filed, etc.

Now, I was the IP Manager for that project, so I KNEW they had zip, not a single patent app filed, not even an invention I could discern.  So, Ken turns to me and asked "CD, are you aware of any patent applications filed?".

I responded "No.".  There was this pregnant silence.  And the other VP ambled on about trademarks.  Yay.  That was the only word I spoke in a one hour meeting.  I was transferred off shortly thereafter, not fired at least.

It was a dumb project and after years of molar gnashing finally was killed, I think they  got to test market.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 13, 2021, 12:03:20 PM

Oh, Ken was a Purdue graduate in ME, smart guy, Indian ancestry.  We're still in contact.

He's looking to retire soon.  He should be amply able to financially.  He's probably the smartest VP I ever was around.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 13, 2021, 12:58:49 PM

The true story behind the court-martial scene in 'Band of Brothers' (taskandpurpose.com) (https://taskandpurpose.com/entertainment/band-of-brothers-winters-court-martial-true-story/?fbclid=IwAR01a6r14ElDDfxhJtDtAW0F4_u_yF7eibWoJW2VWmea4rh7oXEOIV1lhAM)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 13, 2021, 01:57:43 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 13, 2021, 12:58:49 PM

The true story behind the court-martial scene in 'Band of Brothers' (taskandpurpose.com) (https://taskandpurpose.com/entertainment/band-of-brothers-winters-court-martial-true-story/?fbclid=IwAR01a6r14ElDDfxhJtDtAW0F4_u_yF7eibWoJW2VWmea4rh7oXEOIV1lhAM)

Great series


Ive talked to several WW2 vets who served in Europe and they all said this series was about as realistic
as they have seen

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 13, 2021, 02:26:19 PM

Watched American Sniper on Saturday night. First time I've seen it. BIL was on SEAL team 3 with Chris Kyle, and still has his cell number in his phone and refuses to delete it. 

I held it together until the real motorcade and funeral footage at the end. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 13, 2021, 02:53:09 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on September 08, 2021, 08:49:28 AM

This is probably half true. As OAM said, you could probably put the work into making it happen. It would take a bunch of time and probably cost you and the other parents (and local non-parents) money in the long term.

This issue, of course, is that parents as a group are probably getting the most out of the arrangement. Like a relatively ridiculous amount of value. Which of course means sort of bad position when it comes to not catching extra responsibility.

THis is what gets lost.
Strip all the other stuff away and what is it?  You're kid is getting an education for 13 years.  For free.  By people who aren't in it for the money and take an emotional stake in their students' success.

Sorry if you have two different dismissal times at different sites.  It's not ideal, but it is extremely likely the system that screws the fewest people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 13, 2021, 02:59:41 PM

It's not free for everyone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 13, 2021, 03:20:09 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 13, 2021, 02:53:09 PM

Sorry if you have two different dismissal times at different sites.  It's not ideal, but it is extremely likely the system that screws the fewest people.

It's not about the two different sites. That's just my own little wrinkle.

It's about not having a consistent M-F schedule. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 13, 2021, 03:52:51 PM

2021 Great American Beer Festival winners, includes sortable format by style or state:

https://www.greatamericanbeerfestival.com/the-competition/2021-gabf-winners/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on September 13, 2021, 05:26:21 PM

Clay Helton could use an award winning brew.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 14, 2021, 04:44:40 PM

Jennifer Ansiton wants to date someone who isn't famous.

I guess I'm out. damn.

Jennifer Aniston says she'd like to date someone who isn't a public figure: 'That'd be nice' | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/jennifer-aniston-like-date-someone-not-public-figure)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 14, 2021, 05:31:01 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 14, 2021, 04:44:40 PM

Jennifer Ansiton wants to date someone who isn't famous.

I guess I'm out. damn.

Jennifer Aniston says she'd like to date someone who isn't a public figure: 'That'd be nice' | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/jennifer-aniston-like-date-someone-not-public-figure)

Awe poor Jenny. It's so hard being famous and having 50 trillion dollars and still getting everything for free.

She looks great for 52 though.

By the way- I had no idea until I read this- don't watch that stupid AppleTV+ trash or any of the garbage they make- but she's getting paid $2 million PER episode by Apple for that show she's on. They've done 20 episodes. That's $40 million. They are paying Reese Witherspoon the exact same salary. That's $80 million just for two actresses.

How in the hell is that financially feasible? It can't be. Just shows you that Apple has so much god-damn money they can throw $80 million in the trash can and not even feel it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 14, 2021, 05:35:01 PM

I suspect being readily recognizably famous is a pain at times.  You almost can't go anywhere not sheltered from the public eye.  Sure, you can afford post elite secretive resorts and restaurants, but it's still a pain.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 14, 2021, 05:50:48 PM

You just need to wear a disguise. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 14, 2021, 06:04:40 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on September 14, 2021, 05:31:01 PM

Awe poor Jenny. It's so hard being famous and having 50 trillion dollars and still getting everything for free.

She looks great for 52 though.

By the way- I had no idea until I read this- don't watch that stupid AppleTV+ trash or any of the garbage they make- but she's getting paid $2 million PER episode by Apple for that show she's on. They've done 20 episodes. That's $40 million. They are paying Reese Witherspoon the exact same salary. That's $80 million just for two actresses.

How in the hell is that financially feasible? It can't be. Just shows you that Apple has so much god-damn money they can throw $80 million in the trash can and not even feel it.

Pretty decent show though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 14, 2021, 06:21:39 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 14, 2021, 06:04:40 PM

Pretty decent show though.

Looks stupid as shit. Regardless, my point is they have so much money they literally can burn it on projects that will never make them a cent.

They are paying Steve Carell $1 million an episode. That's $100 million over 2 seasons for 3 actors. Forget paying all the other actors, camera men, set & crew. There is no way Apple is making any money on that show. Insane that they have so much money they can literally piss away hundred million plus and not even feel it. It's like you or me losing $1 at a casino to them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on September 14, 2021, 06:46:22 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 14, 2021, 06:04:40 PM

Pretty decent show though.

Yeah it took a minute to get going but I enjoyed the first season.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 14, 2021, 07:20:12 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on September 14, 2021, 06:21:39 PM

Looks stupid as shit. Regardless, my point is they have so much money they literally can burn it on projects that will never make them a cent.

They are paying Steve Carell $1 million an episode. That's $100 million over 2 seasons for 3 actors. Forget paying all the other actors, camera men, set & crew. There is no way Apple is making any money on that show. Insane that they have so much money they can literally piss away hundred million plus and not even feel it. It's like you or me losing $1 at a casino to them.

Long game. Content is king.

It's why there is literally hundred-million-dollar fights over the streaming rights to shows like Friends and The Office. People will subscribe to your streaming service just to watch reruns. 

I figure a lot of these shows are lottery ticket items. Make a bunch of them, try to make as much subscriber money as you can off of them while they're on the air, and then hope that some of them become so valuable as reruns for streaming that they'll keep subscribers around.

Netflix has 209M subscribers. If you figure a rough guess each is worth $10/mo, that's $25B annually in revenue. The reason they have revenue is content rights. Nobody would subscribe if there was nothing good to watch. 

Apple TV+ is throwing a shit-ton of money at original content (just like Netflix did). It's tough to get subscriber numbers from them, and there are probably quite a few (like us) that got 1 year free subscriptions because of having an Apple device--but we'd have never found Ted Lasso or The Morning Show without that free subscription and now my wife wants to remain subscribed, so I guess it'll pay off for Apple... 

Pretty sure this isn't "pissing away" money. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 14, 2021, 07:30:33 PM

I'll start subscribing to AppleTV when Foundation is ready for binging.  They'll get some of my money, for sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 14, 2021, 07:38:39 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 14, 2021, 07:20:12 PM

Long game. Content is king.

It's why there is literally hundred-million-dollar fights over the streaming rights to shows like Friends and The Office. People will subscribe to your streaming service just to watch reruns.

I figure a lot of these shows are lottery ticket items. Make a bunch of them, try to make as much subscriber money as you can off of them while they're on the air, and then hope that some of them become so valuable as reruns for streaming that they'll keep subscribers around.

Netflix has 209M subscribers. If you figure a rough guess each is worth $10/mo, that's $25B annually in revenue. The reason they have revenue is content rights. Nobody would subscribe if there was nothing good to watch.

Apple TV+ is throwing a shit-ton of money at original content (just like Netflix did). It's tough to get subscriber numbers from them, and there are probably quite a few (like us) that got 1 year free subscriptions because of having an Apple device--but we'd have never found Ted Lasso or The Morning Show without that free subscription and now my wife wants to remain subscribed, so I guess it'll pay off for Apple...

Pretty sure this isn't "pissing away" money.

Streaming rights for popular sitcoms is the new tv syndication. Content is king. That's why Disney gobbled up Marvel for $4 billion, LucasFilms (Star Wars) for $4 billion, and a huge chunk of 20th Century Fox for $71 billion.

AppleTV+ has 40 million subscribers. That's a far cry from what Netflix and Disney+ have. That 40 mil includes the millions of free 1 year subscriptions like the one I got for buying an iPad. And I have zero interest in re-upping, hell they can take the 1 year free back and knock $120 off my iPad if they'd like. I'd much prefer that.

Apple has so much god damn money they should've been buying up assets instead of half-assing it on creating their own content that nobody wants to watch and they have to give subscriptions away for free just to pad their user base numbers.

Apple is trying to get into the streaming game and also trying to get into the automotive business and build an electric car. They will fail at both. Tim Cook sucks. What they should've done is acquire assets with the ungodly pile of nearly $300 Billion in cash they had. What did they do? They did a bunch of share buybacks and they bought Beats freaking headphones. Beats. Headphones. That was Tim Cook's crowning achievement as CEO. What a joke. Apple could've acquired Netflix and Tesla 10 times over during the last 10 years and every time they were approached they turned the acquisitions down. Biggest mistake Apple ever made was not acquiring Tesla and making Elon Musk CEO of the entire company.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 14, 2021, 09:24:18 PM

I'll never understand $300 headphones.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 15, 2021, 05:13:09 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 14, 2021, 09:24:18 PM

I'll never understand $300 headphones. 

Beats headphones have been mostly trash. I had them in the past, they were always overpriced garbage.  

Supposedly they bought Beats more for the music streaming and to boost Apple Music.

The AirPods & AirPods Pro are better products than anything Beats ever made. I got my AirPods Pro on sale for $199 and it’s the best $200 I think I’ve ever spent. Love those damn things.

It kinda seems to me like they are phasing out the Beats brand and pushing their own AirPods headphones much more. There are now 3 versions of the AirPods. AirPods, AirPods Pro, and AirPods Pro Max.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 15, 2021, 08:36:25 AM

I hate any type of speaker that has to go inside the ear.  They annoy me and start hurting/aching after only a few minutes.

Instead I rock an old-school Walkman-style pair of headphones, orange foam covers and all. 

They look like these:

(https://i.imgur.com/bvXudrM.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 15, 2021, 10:08:42 AM

Sounds systems, like nearly everything in life, reaches a plateau if you chart expense versus quality, or near plateau.  You can get a nice Honda Accord for $35 K or so, brand new, very functional car, or spend double on a BMW and drive it like you would an Accord and put more gas in it.

Anything above that is to impress strangers.

I have some ancient Koss headphones I bought around 1978 here somewhere, never use them.  

Diminishing returns.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 15, 2021, 10:24:54 AM

I had some Pioneer speakers frm like '79 and those were great.I ended up giving them to a friends son who has weekend DJ gigs he still may be using them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 15, 2021, 10:30:05 AM

My first real speakers were Small Advents, they were great for 1974, boomy and unsettled foggy bass, but bass.  I moved up to cleaner speakers when I got a real job, I can't recall the name, and when I retired got some Monitor Acoustics Silvers, which are solid, added a MA sound bar and subwoofer.  I had a half decent Onkyo receiver that I upgraded recently and was shocked at the difference it made.  I got a "refurbished" Yamaha receiver that was obviously brand new anyway.

And now I rarely listen anyway.  

My buddy in Cincy told me he spent over $2 K on speaker CABLES alone.  He did have a nice system, three of them actually.

We bought a Yamaha "electric piano" that is awesome, it uses a normal keyboard and translates that into electronics.  So, the action feels like a real grand.

The wife uses it as a stereo in the bedroom.  She listens to classical almost nonstop.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 15, 2021, 10:36:34 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 15, 2021, 10:08:42 AM

Sounds systems, like nearly everything in life, reaches a plateau if you chart expense versus quality, or near plateau.  You can get a nice Honda Accord for $35 K or so, brand new, very functional car, or spend double on a BMW and drive it like you would an Accord and put more gas in it.

Anything above that is to impress strangers.

Yes. Especially as we age. By the time we can afford the fancy stuff, our ears are toast anyway.

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 15, 2021, 10:30:05 AM

My buddy in Cincy told me he spent over $2 K on speaker CABLES alone.  He did have a nice system, three of them actually.

Take it from a EE, this is stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid. I could go on, which is how stupid it is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on September 15, 2021, 10:39:45 AM

Jabra have a  good set of wireless buds.

I'm no audiophile but there's so much 'sound' lost w streaming era.   It's kind of sad as so many other developments have improved, technologically speaking.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 15, 2021, 10:40:05 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 15, 2021, 10:30:05 AM

The wife uses it as a stereo in the bedroom.  She listens to classical almost nonstop.

I put my radio on low and our small parrots love classical music.It's amazing if they're screaming for whatever reason - tune it in and they shut up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 15, 2021, 10:43:58 AM

My friend was trying to eek out the last bit of sound quality I gather.  He was in some club that discussed such things in minute detail.

I'd guess he had spent nearly $100 K on his main sound system, so 2% for speaker wire wasn't out of balance, I reckon.

They were ribbon type, I don't know what kind, very thick.  The funny thing, to me, is they had a pretty small TV in the same room not hooked up to it.

Most Expensive Audio Cables | Expenditure | SuccessStory (https://successstory.com/spendit/most-expensive-audio-cables)

Most Expensive Audio Cables
(https://images.successstory.com/img_spendit/Most-Expensive-Audio-Cables_1447420045.jpg)Audio cables are among the most important accessories that audiophiles pay close attention to in music. Most of them can spend thousands of bucks to get the best audio quality possible. Some audiophiles claim that audio cables can make or even break their hi-fis sound, but some of them don’t believe in this and go for the cheapest audio cables.

• Most Expensive Speakers (https://successstory.com/spendit/most-expensive-speakers)
• Most Expensive Televisions (https://successstory.com/spendit/most-expensive-telivisions)

Debates on audio cables have existed for many decades, but the only way to know which piece is quality for sure is to try one of the most expensive cables of all time. Here are some of the most expensive audio cables currently on the market. 
1. Siltech Emperor Crown - $40,000
(https://images.successstory.com/adminimg/image_uploads/content_images/1_1446877360.jpg)
This is the most expensive audio cable of all time. It costs $40,000. The audio cable combines most of the recent technology in insulation materials, metallurgy and construction techniques. Moreover, its Royal signature series makes the user delve deep into musical soul while keeping the video and audio signal clean and free from noise.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 15, 2021, 10:45:56 AM

Are Expensive Speaker Cables Actually Worth It? Here’s What You Need to Know (gearpatrol.com) (https://www.gearpatrol.com/tech/audio/a669895/speaker-cables-buying-guide/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 15, 2021, 10:50:28 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 15, 2021, 10:36:34 AM

Yes. Especially as we age. By the time we can afford the fancy stuff, our ears are toast anyway.
Take it from a EE, this is stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid. I could go on, which is how stupid it is.

My best friend in college was one of my TAs, he was an Oxford undergrad who was earning his Masters and PhD at Texas in Acoustical Engineering.  By far the smartest electrical engineer I've ever met.  His specialty was acoustics, but he knew every bit as much as I did about digital design, computer programming, IC design and manufacturing, and everything else.

Anyway, during his time at Texas, he did extensive research on "monster cables" and various other brands.  He worked on some of that with another friend of ours who also specialized in acoustics, also earning his graduate degrees from UT, after receiving his undergrad from MIT.

You would obviously NOT be surprised at their findings and conclusions about the relative performance and expense between those premium brands they tested, versus other inexpensive brands, and also versus random conductors like lamp cord and romex.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 15, 2021, 11:00:19 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 13, 2021, 03:52:51 PM

2021 Great American Beer Festival winners, includes sortable format by style or state:

https://www.greatamericanbeerfestival.com/the-competition/2021-gabf-winners/

of course the winner from my area was a sour beer
Marto in Sioux City is worthy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 15, 2021, 11:21:19 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 15, 2021, 11:00:19 AM

of course the winner from my area was a sour beer
Marto in Sioux City is worthy

Cool list, I like that it's sortable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 15, 2021, 12:27:19 PM

The issue with things like speaker cables is confirmation bias unless you do a blind study, and even then it's qualitative.  I might prefer the sound from cheap cables and you might prefer the other, but which of us is right?  We both are, but I end up paying less.

I use Monster type cables with good connectors, that makes sense to me, they are lightly shielded.  Maybe if I used expensive cables I could hear some difference, but is it better?  It's subjective, and nothing is as good as the real thing, a live performance (I'm talking classical music, rock often is so loud you can tell anyway).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 15, 2021, 01:02:46 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 15, 2021, 12:27:19 PM

The issue with things like speaker cables is confirmation bias unless you do a blind study, and even then it's qualitative.  I might prefer the sound from cheap cables and you might prefer the other, but which of us is right?  We both are, but I end up paying less.

I use Monster type cables with good connectors, that makes sense to me, they are lightly shielded.  Maybe if I used expensive cables I could hear some difference, but is it better?  It's subjective, and nothing is as good as the real thing, a live performance (I'm talking classical music, rock often is so loud you can tell anyway).

No, there are definitely tests you can do that would tell you the performance of the cable. 

Essentially it's simple... What you get at the speaker end of the cable should be as close to identical as what you put in at the source end of the cable. 

You can measure a waveform in the time domain with an oscilloscope, or measure it in the frequency domain with a spectrum analyzer, but simple testing would be to run various types of signals through and see how clean they come out on the other end. 

You want a speaker wire to be as free from distortion and interference as possible. 

Just about everything I've ever read on the subject says that as long as you have an adequate gauge wire for the distance you're running and the power you're pushing through it, very little else matters, including cost. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 15, 2021, 01:05:58 PM

I'm wireless here. Kinda like it that way, but I miss my Jamo system.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 15, 2021, 01:17:51 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 15, 2021, 01:02:46 PM

No, there are definitely tests you can do that would tell you the performance of the cable.

Essentially it's simple... What you get at the speaker end of the cable should be as close to identical as what you put in at the source end of the cable.

You can measure a waveform in the time domain with an oscilloscope, or measure it in the frequency domain with a spectrum analyzer, but simple testing would be to run various types of signals through and see how clean they come out on the other end.

You want a speaker wire to be as free from distortion and interference as possible.

Just about everything I've ever read on the subject says that as long as you have an adequate gauge wire for the distance you're running and the power you're pushing through it, very little else matters, including cost.

Yup.

Lamp cord turns out to be a better speaker wire than everything on the market that is marketed as speaker wire.  Heavier gauge.  Really all that matters.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 15, 2021, 01:20:37 PM

Truthfully, I'd like to get a halfway decent stereo system. 

But at the same time, I mostly listen to streaming music, so the quality level doesn't justify it. 

So if I do it, I will be absolutely looking at a halfway decent system. A couple hundred on a multichannel AV receiver, a couple hundred on speakers and subwoofer, and done. Spend enough that I can get decent volume, decent midrange and bass, but there's no source material I'm likely to use that justifies spending thousands. 

That said, even if I had all my audio in lossless FLAC encoding, nothing justifies stupid overspending on speaker cables.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 15, 2021, 01:32:39 PM

Yes, you are right, one could measure the wave form input with the wave form at the end of the cables, I hadn't thought of that.  I was more thinking of the aural experience, some humans might prefer the more distorted wave forms.  Shielding apparently is a "thing", for some.  

I bought the wife a sound bar with a wireless subwoofer a while back, the wireless connection would pick up ambient distortion fairly often, lightning was one item.  I can see that an unshielded wire could pick up ambient foreign signals.

I personally would not spend money on high end speaker cables, but obviously they exist, and some do.  As I say, if you invest say $50 K in the system, another $2K is not inherently out of balance with your budget.  My system is more in the $4 K area, which I think just about maxes out your return.

For most folks, I think a half decent sound bar is a good way to go for TV/movies and even music in general.

My wife also has this tiny speaker she uses for streaming fairly often, it looks like a gimmick, but as long as the volume is fairly low it's really adequate.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 15, 2021, 01:40:13 PM

BTW an audiophile will debate to the death about the value of their speaker wire, even though they're wrong.

At least speaker wire is analog, so you can have a debate about fidelity. But as for any digital cable, you should NEVER EVER even consider overpaying. 

Digital signals don't have to worry about fidelity--to a point. You either have a good enough signal to reconstruct the data stream PERFECTLY, or you don't. Cables are binary, either good or bad. And bad is bad...

As a cable company says here regarding HDMI cables: https://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/premium-hdmi-cable.htm

Quote

It remains the case under HDMI 2.0 as before that this isn't a subtle thing; if a cable is failing, you will see the failure manifested, in the great majority of cases, as one of the following, in order of severity:

(1) "Sparkles": individual dropped-out pixels, or
(2) "Line" dropouts where a whole line of video, or the rightward portion, drops out, or
(3) Intermittently flashing or jumping picture, indicating that so much picture data is being lost that the display is losing sync, or
(4) No picture.

These types of issues are what to look for. If you don't see them, your cable is doing fine with the signal currently being run through it. The effect won't be subtle -- it's not about qualitative aspects of the image like shade detail, contrast, and the like.

If your HDMI cable works, spending an extra $10 or $100 for a "better" cable won't do squat for you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 15, 2021, 01:45:05 PM

I think high end audiophiles like to feel superior to the rest of us, and like spending money on their hobby.

We've all seen old Honda Civics with very expensive 22" rims and loud "mufflers"/exhaust systems, riced up.  They sound horrible and they often have automatic transmissions and are still as slow as an old Civic would be standard.  Or cars with the backseat taken out and replaced with a subwoofer that distorts more than it speaks.

Long ago, I would drop by various audio shops and listen to their new gear, they could do side by side etc., and I could hear differences, but couldn't really say one was better than the other.  I was/am a Phillistine.

Wine can be the same thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 15, 2021, 01:50:28 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 15, 2021, 01:32:39 PM

Yes, you are right, one could measure the wave form input with the wave form at the end of the cables, I hadn't thought of that.  I was more thinking of the aural experience, some humans might prefer the more distorted wave forms.  Shielding apparently is a "thing", for some. 

But when you're looking at stereos, you want hi-fi right? High fidelity. 

Quote

fidelity
[ fi-del-i-tee, fahy- ]SHOW IPA



See synonyms for fidelity on Thesaurus.com (https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/fidelity)
📙 Middle School Level

---

noun, plural fi·del·i·ties.

• strict observance of promises, duties, etc.:a servant's fidelity.
• loyalty:fidelity to one's country.
• conjugal faithfulness.
• adherence to fact or detail.
• accuracy; exactness:The speech was transcribed with great fidelity.
• Audio, Video. the degree of accuracy with which sound or images are recorded or reproduced.

In audio, you don't want the wire to distort the signal to make it sound "better". You want the signal that was recorded to come out of your speaker. In no other area of audio that I'm aware of do audiophiles accept that distortion is preferred.

Quote

I bought the wife a sound bar with a wireless subwoofer a while back, the wireless connection would pick up ambient distortion fairly often, lightning was one item.  I can see that an unshielded wire could pick up ambient foreign signals.

That same cable company says this: https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm

Quote

Speaker cable is a bit different from a lot of the interconnect cables we handle, in several respects. Because speakers are driven at low impedance (typically 4 or 8 ohms) and high current, speaker cables are, for all practical purposes, immune from interference from EMI or RFI, so shielding isn't required. The low impedance of the circuit, meanwhile, makes capacitance, which can be an issue in high-impedance line or microphone-level connections practically irrelevant. The biggest issue in speaker cables, from the point of view of sound quality, is simply conductivity; the lower the resistance of the cable, the lower the contribution of the speaker cable's resistance to the damping factor, and the flatter the frequency response will be. While one can spend thousands of dollars on exotic speaker cable, in the end analysis, it's the sheer conductivity of the cable, and (barring a really odd design, which may introduce various undesirable effects) little else that matters. The answer to keeping conductivity high is simple: the larger the wire, the lower the resistance, and the higher the conductivity.

I will say that one area where this might not be true is in car audio. Wire routing in a car can sometimes cause issues because of significant amounts of power running through the vehicle. However I think a good portion of this isn't even the speaker wire part, it's running the power cables to an amplifier in a way to avoid interference, and routing things like low-voltage preamp wires from the receiver to the amplifier in an area that it won't be subject to interference or crosstalk. 

Quote

I personally would not spend money on high end speaker cables, but obviously they exist, and some do.  As I say, if you invest say $50 K in the system, another $2K is not inherently out of balance with your budget.  My system is more in the $4 K area, which I think just about maxes out your return.

Maybe $2K for speaker wire isn't out of balance with the budget for a $50K audio system. It's still a complete and total waste of money, beyond the psychological aspect that it buys you, and the bragging rights you get being able to tell people you spent $2K on speaker wire.

Of course, that bragging will not have the desired effect on guys like me and @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) lol...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 15, 2021, 02:03:13 PM

Interesting, I had guessed some shielding MIGHT be useful with cables, but apparently not, outside perhaps some extreme situation.

I have my old receiver in my office with some small speakers I hooked up with very thin cables, I didn't have anything else, and I don't listen to much here.  They work.

We all know "mavens" who will try and eek out even symbolic "performance" in a hobby thing (like college football and ribs).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 15, 2021, 02:13:39 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 15, 2021, 02:03:13 PM

I have my old receiver in my office with some small speakers I hooked up with very thin cables, I didn't have anything else, and I don't listen to much here.  They work.

I wouldn't worry about it.

Your ears are too old to hear it anyway... (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2802451/) 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 15, 2021, 02:15:26 PM

What’s The Worst Car Myth? (jalopnik.com) (https://jalopnik.com/what-s-the-worst-car-myth-1847664847)

Speaking of myths, the only one they offer is changing your oil every 3,000, which is a myth with modern cars, I agree.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 15, 2021, 02:25:42 PM

I was pretty into stereo stuff in high school.  I built up my system through timely pawn shop acquisitions, as well as some creative "borrowing" from my dad, when he stopped using his own equipment. When I went off to college I replaced it all with newer flashier stuff that was lower in quality, and didn't last, but over the past few years I unearthed all of it that was still in my parents' guest bedroom closet.

I still have my newish home theater system driving the audio for the TV, plus all streaming music.

But separately, in my "parlor" I have set up my old Technics stereo amplifier/receiver (which seems to be considered "decent" by modern audiophiles that are trying to replicate vintage systems), some pretty basic Boston Acoustics floor speakers, and a super nice Garrard turntable that's actually my dad's but shhhh don't tell him.  I also have a TEAC equalizer with the cool bouncy LEDs but honestly those really don't help the signal, and typically make it worse.  And then there's my Sony dual tape deck.  It still works,  but I only have a couple of cassette tapes anymore.  Most of them died in my car in the Texas heat, over the years.

And of course, lamp cord speaker wire to connect it all up. :)

Edit: OH, and my original single-disc Sony CD player, too.  Still works great.  I probably went through 2 or 3 multi-disc changers in the ensuing years that all flaked out and died.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 15, 2021, 02:27:59 PM

When we were trying to be "audiophiles", most of us were relatively poor doing the best we could.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 15, 2021, 02:34:26 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 15, 2021, 02:15:26 PM

What’s The Worst Car Myth? (jalopnik.com) (https://jalopnik.com/what-s-the-worst-car-myth-1847664847)

Speaking of myths, the only one they offer is changing your oil every 3,000, which is a myth with modern cars, I agree.

One of the biggest to me is that higher octane gasoline is "better" for your car than what the owner's manual recommends.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 15, 2021, 02:43:26 PM

Oh yeah, that's a common one indeed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 15, 2021, 02:51:39 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 15, 2021, 02:15:26 PM

What’s The Worst Car Myth? (jalopnik.com) (https://jalopnik.com/what-s-the-worst-car-myth-1847664847)

Speaking of myths, the only one they offer is changing your oil every 3,000, which is a myth with modern cars, I agree.

That was one of my pet peeves. We live in a rural area were a majority of the time, we are driving at highway speeds. That means that the engine is using less revolutions to travel a mile than one that is driven in city conditions where the speeds are slower and a lot of time is spent not moving with the engine still running. 

As such, when the standard recommendation was a 3,000 mile oil change, I was changing my oil at about 5,000 - 6,000 miles depending on how broke down the oil appeared to be. This also coincided with tire rotations. 

Now our vehicles give a Percentage of Oil life remaining and seems to work out to around 7,000 - 8,000 miles. This is perfect for me as I will change the oil and rotate tires at the same time. Just did the wife's car this past weekend. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 15, 2021, 02:58:26 PM

When I got out of college and started working for a living, I bought an Onkyo receiver with some Boston Acoustic bookshelf speakers and a Yamaha turntable. (I still have them in a closet).

After some time, I replaced the Onkyo receiver with a Yamaha receiver, added a Denon CD player and a Nakamichi tape deck. I replace the book shelf speakers with Infinity Reference standards and all was good. Until someone broke into the house and stole the speakers. It appears that they attempted to take the receiver but it had so many connections that they left it hanging from the rack.

I replaced the Infinities with Boston Acoustic 2 way floor speakers and a pair of Boston Acoustic outdoor speakers for the deck. Now I rarely even turn it on. But I did add a blue tooth input so that we can turn it on and stream music from our phones, so that is a nice little luxury. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 15, 2021, 03:09:47 PM

When I use the home theater system, it's for watching movies, sports, or playing music for parties inside/outside (I have a second amp that drives all of the outdoor speakers around the pool, fire pit, etc.).

When I'm using my "hifi" system, it's always in an "audiophile" setting. I'm playing one of my my hundreds of vinyl LP albums from the past, or some of the new stuff that I've bought, remastered pressed on 180g vinyl.

All of that's a little hoity toity, but it's also fun.  I'd forgotten how enjoyable it is to just sit and listen through an entire record album, side a and b. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 15, 2021, 03:16:27 PM

Now, most of my music listening is through my phone and mainly when I am mowing grass. For that I have a pair of Walker Razor electronic ear muffs that I use when shooting guns. I have a Blue Tooth adapter that I plug into the ear muffs and then stream music from my phone.

On my phone I have many hours of music that can play through an app. I also have SirusXM radio app and the Amazon Prime music app that I can run and listen to music that way. While mowing the lawn, I simply plug in the Blue Tooth adaptor, connect to the phone and start one of the apps and listen to music while I mow. 

Many times, I simply play an entire album front to back as that is about the time it takes to mow the lawn. The last one I listened to was Pink Floyd's Animals album. I could listen to that album all day. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 15, 2021, 04:16:42 PM

I think most folks are the same, the value of a real "hifi" sound system today for most of us is minimal, aside perhaps from movies.  I do listen on rare occasion, but it's a lot less often than when I was younger.  It seems like a waste of time in a sense.

Not that I don't waste time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 15, 2021, 07:59:52 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 15, 2021, 02:51:39 PM

That was one of my pet peeves. We live in a rural area were a majority of the time, we are driving at highway speeds. That means that the engine is using less revolutions to travel a mile than one that is driven in city conditions where the speeds are slower and a lot of time is spent not moving with the engine still running.

As such, when the standard recommendation was a 3,000 mile oil change, I was changing my oil at about 5,000 - 6,000 miles depending on how broke down the oil appeared to be. This also coincided with tire rotations.

Now our vehicles give a Percentage of Oil life remaining and seems to work out to around 7,000 - 8,000 miles. This is perfect for me as I will change the oil and rotate tires at the same time. Just did the wife's car this past weekend.

Interesting. 

I had a 2003 that said 5,000. Then I had a mechanic who said that was to keep down some number and make it look less expensive. Then the car started burning off oil, so I got better at checking it myself. 

The car eventually died because the check engine light came on during a road trip (to Ohio). I took a gamble and guessed it could be dealt with after I got back. Almost all the way home, the engine started making an awful noise and just ate it. Turned out, all the oil was gone. Thing was toast. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 16, 2021, 08:39:07 AM

I use synthetic and the oil change light comes on about every ten months, we don't drive much.  City driving used to be terrible for oil before we had FI engines because the carbs would go rich every time you took your foot off the gas.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 16, 2021, 11:27:48 AM

WalletHub's Happiest States 2021 (https://wallethub.com/edu/happiest-states/6959)

I don't think you can trust it though... They don't have Florida as #1 and the other 49 shitholes in a 49-way tie for 50th. 

(I know the 49-way tie would be for 2nd, but shitholes can't be tied for 2nd. Artistic license.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 16, 2021, 12:01:39 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 16, 2021, 11:27:48 AM

WalletHub's Happiest States 2021 (https://wallethub.com/edu/happiest-states/6959)

I don't think you can trust it though... They don't have Florida as #1 and the other 49 shitholes in a 49-way tie for 50th.

(I know the 49-way tie would be for 2nd, but shitholes can't be tied for 2nd. Artistic license.)

😂.  That shithole comment is so in your head.  

By the way I wonder if they “ baked in” the effects of marijuana usage levels?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on September 16, 2021, 02:29:56 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 15, 2021, 02:13:39 PM

I wouldn't worry about it.

Your ears are too old to hear it anyway... (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2802451/)

Between listening to loud music and old age, I have lost a good part of my upper range and really need to look at a person when they are talking to understand them a good part of the them. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on September 16, 2021, 10:48:33 PM

Well, I've never voluntarily taken a buyoff to get off a flight until tonight. The Mrs and I are going to Denver in the morning instead of tonight, with two fat vouchers in our wallets. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 17, 2021, 07:47:55 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on September 16, 2021, 10:48:33 PM

Well, I've never voluntarily taken a buyoff to get off a flight until tonight. The Mrs and I are going to Denver in the morning instead of tonight, with two fat vouchers in our wallets.

I’ve never been lucky enough to have that option. I always price myself out of it. Salute to you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 17, 2021, 08:04:06 AM

We've been able to do that a couple of times over the years, including giving up our seats from Maui to Chicago.

For that one, we were given first class, two days later. We were stranded in Maui, which was terrible, of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on September 17, 2021, 08:24:52 AM

This flight was overbooked too. We thought about taking another round, but then thought better of it. I think everyone on this plane is going to the game. 

A few friends are on the 6AM sodbuster out to Denver tomorrow morning. They're going to have a hard time getting to Boulder tomorrow in time. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 17, 2021, 09:21:12 AM

I've done it a couple of times. Once I got a $500 airline voucher for giving up my seat for another flight 2 hours later. It expired in my laptop bag about a year later. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 17, 2021, 10:06:27 AM

I was pretty amazed with Southwest. When the wife and I flew to Denver to see my mom a few weeks back, our flight out was cancelled and we ended up on a flight about 3 hours later. 

Southwest emailed the next week with $100 vouchers for each of us for our troubles. 

It's either good customer service or imploring us "please keep flying, anywhere, so we can make any money at all" lol...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 17, 2021, 03:13:04 PM

Review of "Hamilton" by CD:

We went last night.  I wanted to leave after 5 minutes.  Most of it is rap music, in effect.  Some parts are "OK", but I could barely understand most of it and quit trying.  It's also 3 hours long.  They appear to have had diversity more on their mind when casting, the ONLY "white guy" was a silly character playing the King of Eng.  GW was Asian, most characters were black, Hamilton's whife was Asian.  

I really have no clue why it's "A Thing" except every talks about it and talks it up.  Wasted time and money for me, but I never wanted to see it anyway.  My kids are in town and wanted to go, as did the wife.  One thought it was very good the other said "Interesting", which for her means "I didn't care for it."

"We" get hoodwinked a lot because something is popular, like needing toilet paper when COVID broke out.  Sheep.

If I could make my review more negative I would.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 17, 2021, 03:48:48 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 17, 2021, 03:13:04 PM

Review of "Hamilton" by CD:

We went last night.  I wanted to leave after 5 minutes.  Most of it is rap music, in effect.  Some parts are "OK", but I could barely understand most of it and quit trying.  It's also 3 hours long.  They appear to have had diversity more on their mind when casting, the ONLY "white guy" was a silly character playing the King of Eng.  GW was Asian, most characters were black, Hamilton's whife was Asian. 

I really have no clue why it's "A Thing" except every talks about it and talks it up.  Wasted time and money for me, but I never wanted to see it anyway.  My kids are in town and wanted to go, as did the wife.  One thought it was very good the other said "Interesting", which for her means "I didn't care for it."

"We" get hoodwinked a lot because something is popular, like needing toilet paper when COVID broke out.  Sheep.

If I could make my review more negative I would.

as I previously said I only made it 5 minutes before I turned it off

as OAM would say I wasnt the target audience 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 17, 2021, 04:13:25 PM

The Fox Theater seats 4,655 people and it was nearly full of mostly wealthy looking white folks, so I gather they must be the "target audience".  Those around me raved about how great it was as we left.

I get a sense it's socially unacceptable to think as I did.

That really is a magnificent venue.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 17, 2021, 04:20:54 PM

I'm a bit of a buff for the history of the revolutionary period, and Alexander Hamilton is one of the most important and influential, and simultaneously one of the least well-known, founding fathers. 

I thought it was a pretty entertaining story of his life, and mostly accurate, capturing quite a lot of the important history and conflict between Hamilton and Jefferson/Madison. 

And the king's character was hilarious. 

I got my money's worth.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 17, 2021, 04:30:52 PM

I'd rather read a good biography.  I maybe understood a third of the words uttered to the point I quit trying to follow it.  I just tried to sleep.

I'd opine for me it tied the worst entertainment experience I've ever experienced.

My former wife wanted to go see some musical group back in the day in Cincy when we were married and I told her she could go, fine, I was not interested.  She bought tickets anyway, they were pricey at the time (with my credit card).  So, she convinced me to go, I was miserable, I snuck out as far away from the stage as possible and covered my ears.  At least it didn't last three hours.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 17, 2021, 04:33:43 PM

Every time I think I'm a curmudgeon, y'all put me in my place. :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 17, 2021, 04:39:50 PM

The wife and I have season tickets to the symphony here, we both missed it a lot last year.  That is 6-7 concerts a year and we enjoy them.

We very very rarely go to a movie theater.  We've talked about going to more plays, the main theater is in walking distance.  I would appreciate more classical plays than anything new I suspect.

I never have liked movie musicals, there isn't a single one I like, though I can somewhat tolerate a few.

I am surprised how much I disliked this play.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2021, 05:03:15 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 17, 2021, 04:13:25 PM

The Fox Theater seats 4,655 people and it was nearly full of mostly wealthy looking white folks, so I gather they must be the "target audience".  Those around me raved about how great it was as we left.

I get a sense it's socially unacceptable to think as I did.

That really is a magnificent venue.

That's where Lynyrd Skynyrd taped their live '76 album "One More for From The Road" - classic

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 17, 2021, 05:12:47 PM

The musical Hamilton is intentionally jarring.

I saw the video version released on Disney+, and of course I'd heard much of the music beforehand.

I love musical theater and I love many musical movies.  Hamilton wasn't really my thing but I appreciate the craft that went into its production.  I certainly wouldn't pay $400+/ticket for it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 17, 2021, 05:39:31 PM

I don't know that I'd call it "intentionally jarring"... 

What, are we all supposed to clutch at pearls and hit the fainting couch because it's a POC cast and the music is hip-hop? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 17, 2021, 06:27:02 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 17, 2021, 05:39:31 PM

I don't know that I'd call it "intentionally jarring"...

What, are we all supposed to clutch at pearls and hit the fainting couch because it's a POC cast and the music is hip-hop?

maybe thats why I disliked it so much as I think hiphop is the scourge of the earth

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 17, 2021, 09:23:42 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 17, 2021, 05:39:31 PM

I don't know that I'd call it "intentionally jarring"...

What, are we all supposed to clutch at pearls and hit the fainting couch because it's a POC cast and the music is hip-hop?

Absolutely.  Replacing a bunch of old wigged whities with POC, and representing their thoughts and expression in a modern urban musical style completely disconnected from the staid roots of the Founding Fathers of American Independence?

If you didn't get that, from the artist's creation, then you most certainly missed the point.

Because believe me, every editorial and entertainment opinion piece, COMPLETELY understood the intentions, and commented on them at great length.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 18, 2021, 07:53:37 AM

I missed the point.  I did not even care that it had a point.  

Did Beethoven need a point?

Anyway, if you are like me at all, don't go.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 18, 2021, 08:17:43 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on September 17, 2021, 06:27:02 PM

maybe thats why I disliked it so much as I think hiphop is the scourge of the earth

This is revealing, and not in the 'grr longhorn is bad' way.  
The music people create is born from within - an expression of their experiences.  So hip-hop is merely the outward expression of growing up in "scourge" communities and conditions.
.
This is why we want to improve those hoods and barrios.  So.....good point, longhorn.  I agree.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 18, 2021, 08:22:46 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 17, 2021, 04:30:52 PM

I'd rather read a good biography.  I maybe understood a third of the words uttered to the point I quit trying to follow it.  I just tried to sleep.

I'd opine for me it tied the worst entertainment experience I've ever experienced.

My former wife wanted to go see some musical group back in the day in Cincy when we were married and I told her she could go, fine, I was not interested.  She bought tickets anyway, they were pricey at the time (with my credit card).  So, she convinced me to go, I was miserable, I snuck out as far away from the stage as possible and covered my ears.  At least it didn't last three hours.

Why do you put yourself through this?
I don't know why (usually men) get married, only to become a 2nd-class citizen in their own home.  
Get your wife a friend.  Then you can live your life, too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 18, 2021, 08:25:07 AM

Get a wife/family then you can give advice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 18, 2021, 08:26:39 AM

Yeah, you have to jump off a cliff first to see it's a bad idea.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 18, 2021, 08:29:33 AM

We can only dream

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 18, 2021, 09:14:36 AM

A Rap musical? 

Yeah you'd have to pay me to go to that, and it would be upwards of six figures. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 18, 2021, 09:39:45 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 18, 2021, 08:17:43 AM

This is revealing, and not in the 'grr longhorn is bad' way. 
The music people create is born from within - an expression of their experiences.  So hip-hop is merely the outward expression of growing up in "scourge" communities and conditions.
.
This is why we want to improve those hoods and barrios.  So.....good point, longhorn.  I agree.

and its not a race thing

I hate white hiphopers equally

Ive watched many shows with all black casts and enjoyed them very much

Porgy and Bess is an example

I even went to see an all black cast of Hello Dolly staring Pearl Baily at Jones Hall here in Houston and it was great

but when our founding fathers start doing hip hop youve lost me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 18, 2021, 09:40:08 AM

Nope. Not a chance. Rather pluck my finger nails one by one than go see that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 18, 2021, 10:18:01 AM

Quote from: utee94 on September 17, 2021, 09:23:42 PM

Absolutely.  Replacing a bunch of old wigged whities with POC, and representing their thoughts and expression in a modern urban musical style completely disconnected from the staid roots of the Founding Fathers of American Independence?

If you didn't get that, from the artist's creation, then you most certainly missed the point.

Because believe me, every editorial and entertainment opinion piece, COMPLETELY understood the intentions, and commented on them at great length.

Eh. I thought it was a fun musical and a good show. 

Was it "interesting" to see the founding fathers as POC and spittin' rhymes? Sure. That was something new that we haven't seen before.

Was it "jarring"? Not to me. Maybe I'm just harder to knock off kilter than most people...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 18, 2021, 10:27:09 AM

You were already off 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 18, 2021, 10:35:46 AM

The approach that Hamilton took is not new

Jesus Christ Superstar (which I really like) also took established norms of Jesus and his disciples

and cast them in a semi modern light but if they had had them doing hip-hop that would have been too much

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 18, 2021, 10:43:49 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on September 18, 2021, 10:27:09 AM

You were already off

True. I've never claimed to be normal. 

Quote from: longhorn320 on September 18, 2021, 10:35:46 AM

The approach that Hamilton took is not new

Jesus Christ Superstar (which I really like) also took established norms of Jesus and his disciples

and cast them in a semi modern light but if they had had them doing hip-hop that would have been too much

That one I haven't seen. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 18, 2021, 10:44:25 AM

another musical that tried to modernize our founding fathers was 1776

If youve never seen it would be worth your while

again while Ben Franklin had his share of chippy remarks there was no hip-hop

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 18, 2021, 10:46:03 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 18, 2021, 10:43:49 AM

That one I haven't seen.

then you have missed a really great musical

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 18, 2021, 12:04:02 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on September 18, 2021, 10:44:25 AM

another musical that tried to modernize our founding fathers was 1776

If youve never seen it would be worth your while

again while Ben Franklin had his share of chippy remarks there was no hip-hop

I've seen 1776. Unfortunately it was my son's school's 6th grade presentation of it.

Here's how little I knew about that one... He told me he was playing John Adams. I thought to myself "hey, that's a decent part, he was pretty important in the Revolution"... It wasn't until I actually saw the performance that I realized he was the damn lead lol...

I should watch that one. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 18, 2021, 12:31:18 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 18, 2021, 12:04:02 PM

I've seen 1776. Unfortunately it was my son's school's 6th grade presentation of it.

Here's how little I knew about that one... He told me he was playing John Adams. I thought to myself "hey, that's a decent part, he was pretty important in the Revolution"... It wasn't until I actually saw the performance that I realized he was the damn lead lol...

I should watch that one.

I saw the original Broadway cast performance when they were on tour and went to Austin

William Daniels played John Adams as he also did in the movie 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 18, 2021, 12:33:19 PM

ps: 1776 I understand is offered free on youtube right now

if so check it out

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 18, 2021, 10:16:44 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on September 18, 2021, 09:39:45 AM

and its not a race thing

I hate white hiphopers equally

Ive watched many shows with all black casts and enjoyed them very much

Porgy and Bess is an example

I even went to see an all black cast of Hello Dolly staring Pearl Baily at Jones Hall here in Houston and it was great

but when our founding fathers start doing hip hop youve lost me

I didn't mention race at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 18, 2021, 11:59:29 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 18, 2021, 10:16:44 PM

I didn't mention race at all.

no you didnt

good for you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 19, 2021, 04:09:49 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on September 18, 2021, 11:59:29 PM

no you didnt

good for you

This is what makes this place like the the walls of a high school girl's bathroom.  
So bizarre.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 19, 2021, 08:07:43 AM

I first declined when it was just the wife, but when both kids drove all this way and both wanted to see it ... I thought I'd see what it is all about.  I saw.

Seemed like a family outing.

It was $40 to park there, fortunately we walked.  

Is there a difference between rap and hip hop?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 19, 2021, 08:49:37 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on September 18, 2021, 10:35:46 AM

The approach that Hamilton took is not new

Jesus Christ Superstar (which I really like) also took established norms of Jesus and his disciples

and cast them in a semi modern light but if they had had them doing hip-hop that would have been too much

And Jesus Christ Superstar was considered quite "jarring" as well.

I'm not saying this is new, artists do this sort of thing all the time.  I'm simply saying that flipping established tropes on their side was intentional, and it absolutely created the stir it was intended to.  All kinds of articles and opinion pieces on it out there, when it was first released. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 19, 2021, 10:48:19 AM

All that "jarring" is fine with me, I just don't care for it obviously.  It reminds me a bit of "modern art" which also leaves me clueless.

Meanwhile, this is happening in the park, we hear the BOOM BOOM BOOM all the time, it was there while I was watching games, very annoying to me.  The good news is that it's drizzling rain and perhaps the crowds are smaller. 

Music Midtown – September 18 & 19, 2021 • Piedmont Park • Atlanta, GA (https://www.musicmidtown.com/)

(https://i.imgur.com/r5QqaxZ.png)

Music Midtown features a diverse lineup of over 30 artists across 4 stages. Be it rock and roll, hip hop, pop, electronic, or anything in between, Music Midtown has been Atlanta’s premier festival for music lovers of all kinds since 1994.


2-DAY
General Admission
$145

2-DAY
Student General Admission
$135


2-DAY
General Admission Plus
$305


2-DAY
VIP
$650


2-DAY
Super VIP
$1300

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 19, 2021, 11:13:08 AM

The dangers of living close to the city center. :)

We have big festivals like that all the time in downtown Austin, and have for decades.  It wasn't a big deal until recently, when a lot more people started moving downtown to live. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 19, 2021, 11:18:21 AM

Yeah, it's a couple of days, but a LOT of people live within easy hearing distance of this thing now.  I just like peace and quiet.

I don't recall this happening before in the three years we've lived here, obviously last years would have been off.  They usually have concerts in another part of the park further away from us and we can barely  hear it indoors.

I don't know any of these "musical" groups.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 19, 2021, 11:23:53 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 19, 2021, 04:09:49 AM

This is what makes this place like the the walls of a high school girl's bathroom. 
So bizarre.

I wouldnt know

I try to stay out of the girls bathroom

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 19, 2021, 11:26:51 AM

Obviously, the best thing about urban life is being able to walk to anything you need pretty easily.  I could manage with no car fairly well.  The less desirable things are a tradeoff against that.

I guess if you have 30 acres way out in the sticks you can have issues with hunters and folks trying to break in etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 19, 2021, 09:30:40 PM

Only speaking for Austin, but the concerts have been going on downtown for decades, and 90% of the downtown population has moved there in the last 10-15 years.  They knew what they were getting into, in fact the main point they moved there was for the activity and electricity associated with all the downtown goings-on, yet now they're complaining about the noise.

Reminds me of people that move close to the airport because of cheaper housing, and then complain about the noise.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 19, 2021, 10:59:07 PM

Quote from: utee94 on September 19, 2021, 09:30:40 PM

Only speaking for Austin, but the concerts have been going on downtown for decades, and 90% of the downtown population has moved there in the last 10-15 years.  They knew what they were getting into, in fact the main point they moved there was for the activity and electricity associated with all the downtown goings-on, yet now they're complaining about the noise.

Reminds me of people that move close to the airport because of cheaper housing, and then complain about the noise.

Saw this in Salinas, CA, where Laguna Seca Raceway is. Rich people moved in near a race track and then complained about the noise. Now outside of sanctioned race events, they have exhaust volume restrictions.

And then there's SNA airport, where they have crazy takeoff profiles to ensure the noise isn't too bad over the rich folks in Newport Beach.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 19, 2021, 11:50:26 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on September 18, 2021, 09:14:36 AM

A Rap musical?

Yeah you'd have to pay me to go to that, and it would be upwards of six figures.

I know this is hyperbole, but for some reason I just can’t help but chuckle at how silly of an idea this would be if it were real.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 19, 2021, 11:58:22 PM

I have some friends who loved the hell out to the Hamilton music. I watched the film version and thought it was just OK. 

It’s an impressive piece of art, though wasn’t really for me. I thought the colorblind casting was a nice touch. The operatic style was also a bit much for me. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 20, 2021, 12:30:49 AM

I doubt I'd like it......so I don't buy tickets to it.  Crazy, huh?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 20, 2021, 08:08:42 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 19, 2021, 10:59:07 PM

Saw this in Salinas, CA, where Laguna Seca Raceway is. Rich people moved in near a race track and then complained about the noise. Now outside of sanctioned race events, they have exhaust volume restrictions.

And then there's SNA airport, where they have crazy takeoff profiles to ensure the noise isn't too bad over the rich folks in Newport Beach.

I've flown into and out of that airport more times than I can count.  The steep angles still surprise me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 20, 2021, 08:08:49 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 19, 2021, 11:18:21 AM

Yeah, it's a couple of days, but a LOT of people live within easy hearing distance of this thing now.  I just like peace and quiet.

Prefer '71 @ the Fillmore East Gigs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 20, 2021, 08:12:57 AM

I told the wife next year we would leave for two days if they hold it again.

It was shaking the Windows.

I am surprised that wealthy area north of us allows this.  No big deal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 20, 2021, 08:33:15 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 20, 2021, 08:12:57 AM

I told the wife next year we would leave for two days if they hold it again.

It was shaking the Windows.

I am surprised that wealthy area north of us allows this.  No big deal.

I have a couple of friends with condos downtown that rent them out when the big festivals are around.  They get away from the noise and the crowds, plus they make some money on the side.

That may or may not be legal in your area.  It's actually not legal in ours, but thousands of people do it anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 20, 2021, 09:25:58 AM

We aren't allowed to rent for events or short term, and there is a limit on long term rentals as well.  I understand we're at that limit with a waiting list.

Some units on our hall are unoccupied, two of six in fact.  I did see the owner of one and he said he's moving out but it's taking a while and he is keeping it for investment purposes.  

We had cars parked everywhere in the street below us, I gather they figured the popo would not get to them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 20, 2021, 10:56:22 AM

Today is quiet and drizzly here, the usual traffic noises.  Traffic here is back.  Things are not much different than "before".

Construction is back with a vengeance, new projects pop up almost weekly.  On Saturday we wondered through this new place.  They have a really nice outdoor bar and pool on the 9th floor with a garden but it's going to be restricted to guests and condo owners soon.  The downstairs bar looks nice, with bar prices for drinks, like $14.  I'm not much of a fan of $12-18 drinks.  I looked at the restraurant menu, looks worth a try maybe.

Sneak peek: Midtown's chic Epicurean hotel tower opens tomorrow | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/midtown-hotel-epicurean-rooms-photos-rates-selig-development)

This developer is about to start a Phase II, another city block sized thing that will raze some older houses and apartments that are pretty scuzzy.

A marketing brochure for Phase 1 retail space obtained by What Now Atlanta (https://whtnwmg.sfo2.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/03/1105-West-Peachtree-Brochure-2020-IssueUpload.pdf) outlines plans to build 300 luxury apartments, 500,000 square feet of Class-A offices, and 35,000 square feet of retail in a project called The Exchange. Plans identify the block bounded by 12th Street, 13th Street, Peachtree Walk, and Crescent Avenue – just east of 1105 West Peachtree – as where the mixed-use development would rise.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 20, 2021, 12:11:19 PM

First time driving to the office during normal commute in >1 year...

...traffic is definitely back to 100%.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 20, 2021, 02:07:16 PM

Yup.  I miss the good ol' days of the early pandemic hysteria.  You could drive anywhere you wanted, without seeing another soul on the road for miles.

Of course, nothing was open so there was nowhere to go.

Can't have it all I guess.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on September 20, 2021, 02:12:32 PM

Someone is going back to the office full time here in MSP. The MnDOT automatic counters that I regularly watch are showing that volumes are right back to where they were back in February 2020.

Same with flying. The Mrs. and I flew to Los Angeles back in February, and LAX was totally, completely dead. It was really odd.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on September 20, 2021, 04:08:37 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on September 19, 2021, 11:58:22 PM

I have some friends who loved the hell out to the Hamilton music. I watched the film version and thought it was just OK.

It’s an impressive piece of art, though wasn’t really for me. I thought the colorblind casting was a nice touch. The operatic style was also a bit much for me.

I thought the casting was in fact NOT colorblind?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 20, 2021, 07:43:07 PM

Quote from: Gigem on September 20, 2021, 04:08:37 PM

I thought the casting was in fact NOT colorblind? 

Colorblind in the sense that it's not saying "this character is this race and therefor, the casting must be that race." (This is apparently a bit of an issue in places in the theater community)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 20, 2021, 07:48:18 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 19, 2021, 11:18:21 AM

Yeah, it's a couple of days, but a LOT of people live within easy hearing distance of this thing now.  I just like peace and quiet.

I don't recall this happening before in the three years we've lived here, obviously last years would have been off.  They usually have concerts in another part of the park further away from us and we can barely  hear it indoors.

I don't know any of these "musical" groups.

Cincy,

You've made it.  You're officially old.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 20, 2021, 08:37:07 PM

If it's too loud, you're too old.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 21, 2021, 07:53:40 AM

I've been old for years now fellers, and just ticked off another cycle around the sun last week.  My kids drove in to be here, which I appreciated.

It's good when your adult kids like to be around and listen to you a bit and ask advice (which now I don't much give except a bit on finance if asked).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 21, 2021, 08:31:21 AM

you've been old a while, now just getting to the point of being grumpy and easily annoyed regarding loud music and reactions to social media blasting you for your opinion on entertainment

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 21, 2021, 08:47:42 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 20, 2021, 08:37:07 PM

If it's too loud, you're too old.

I was at the David Lee Roth concert in Austin when he was touring for his solo album, Skyscraper.  At the time, it was billed as the loudest concert ever produced.  I was 16 or 17 and listened to a lot of loud music, but I had to duck out into the concourse multiple times.  That concert was too damn loud.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 21, 2021, 09:02:32 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 21, 2021, 08:31:21 AM

you've been old a while, now just getting to the point of being grumpy and easily annoyed regarding loud music and reactions to social media blasting you for your opinion on entertainment

Heh, it's amusing, being grumpy and reviled for it, and of course I don't care.

One loud concert across the street for two days a year is "OK".  It's the bass that carries of course so most of what we hear is loud booming with little else.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 21, 2021, 09:19:49 AM

BeltLine-fronting megaproject starts to rise over Historic Fourth Ward Park | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/beltline-development-apartments-fourth-ward-park-new-city)

This is pretty near us thought technically not midtown.  This Beltline concept has sparked an amazing rush of construction, everyone wants to be near it.  It's so crowded on weekends it's almost unnavigable.  Hopefully it increases exercise.  Some of us need it.

The Beltline was envisioned by a Tech student (Named Gravel oddly enough) using old RR lines to construct paths and perhaps light rail around the inner city.

(https://i.imgur.com/PlbbREd.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 23, 2021, 09:24:42 AM

In case you were wondering ...

What $2.2M buys in a sparkly new Midtown condo right now | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/midtown-condo-new-for-sale-selig-40-w12th-interior)

(https://i.imgur.com/na7bJU0.png)

We toured their sales center, they really did high end on the appliances.  The view in this one isn't much of anything though, another building.  I'll stay where we are.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 23, 2021, 09:49:38 AM

So, I'm watching the Braves last night and Duvall hits a long one to center that hits the fielder's glove and bounces over the fence, with two one, so HR, right?

Nope, in the confusion, Duvall passes the runner who was on first who thought it was caught and was headed back to first to tag up?  So, he gets a single and two RBIs.  The umpires made a very late call on the play, which I can understand.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 23, 2021, 10:16:38 AM

not the first rule in baseball, but possibly the most important rule in base running, never pass the runner in front of you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 23, 2021, 10:21:37 AM

At least it wasn't an unwritten rule. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 23, 2021, 10:22:22 AM

Cardinal Sin

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 23, 2021, 10:22:46 AM

Yup, it was a very odd play.  The announcers are not present, they stay in ATL, so they couldn't figure out what happened for a while.  They never had a camera on the runners for obvious reasons, so they presumed Duvall was rounding first looking into the outfield and the runner on first was running back to tag up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 23, 2021, 10:23:01 AM

First rule in baseball, is that there's no crying in baseball.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 23, 2021, 10:53:53 AM

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/32260968/atlanta-braves-adam-duvall-home-run-nixed-baserunning-gaffe (https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/32260968/atlanta-braves-adam-duvall-home-run-nixed-baserunning-gaffe)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on September 23, 2021, 11:44:46 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 23, 2021, 09:49:38 AM

So, I'm watching the Braves last night and Duvall hits a long one to center that hits the fielder's glove and bounces over the fence, with two one, so HR, right?

Nope, in the confusion, Duvall passes the runner who was on first who thought it was caught and was headed back to first to tag up?  So, he gets a single and two RBIs.  The umpires made a very late call on the play, which I can understand.

https://youtu.be/KCmT90c4ZHk

Actually, that's no HR, it's a 4-base error. Batter-runner must still properly touch bases in order as if it was. Umpires most likely waited for the play to end, then figure out what to do. 

If there were two outs, there is potential for a timing play. In softball, I've seen walk-off game winning HRs taken off the board because of baserunning mistakes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 23, 2021, 01:26:55 PM

So, we're in Chicago now. 

The place certainly looks different, with all the boarded up former storefronts on what used to be the Mag Mile.

Took a taxi in from Midway. Noticed a lot of statues were removed too. Columbus is gone, but the name of the parkway we drove on is still Columbus. 

Not sure if the road will get a new name? 

George Floyd Parkway?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 23, 2021, 01:29:43 PM

In other news...

I challenged a flight attendant today. 

Need to challenge airport managers too, if I can find out how.

All throughout both airports this morning, and on the flight, we had to hear about how it's "Federal Law that we must wear masks on airplanes and in airports."

Federal Law?

Did I miss the House and Senate votes on the bill, and the signage into law at the White House?

Did I miss all that?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 23, 2021, 01:49:07 PM

Right on! Strike a blow for FREEDOM, Badge!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 23, 2021, 01:58:35 PM

I'm OK wearing the mask (OK, I'm not. It sucks wearing a mask for 6 hours, breathing in all of my Co2).

Just don't tell me it's a Law. It's a MANDATE, and it's a mandate coming from unelected government officials (our 4th branch of government) in the Swamp.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 23, 2021, 02:00:09 PM

vocabulary

LAW sounds much more impressive than mandate

of course you can be arrested/detained if you refuse to follow the mandate

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 23, 2021, 02:39:29 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 23, 2021, 02:00:09 PM

vocabulary

LAW sounds much more impressive than mandate

of course you can be arrested/detained if you refuse to follow the mandate

No.   You can be refused the flight or future flights, but I don’t think arrested is legit. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 23, 2021, 02:56:17 PM

Grumpy old man.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 23, 2021, 03:01:53 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 23, 2021, 02:56:17 PM

Grumpy old man.

https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/weekend-update-segment-grumpy-old-man/2724044

I still love this….

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 23, 2021, 03:03:38 PM

They should erect a Lori Lightfoot stature where the Columbus statue used to be. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 23, 2021, 03:37:15 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on September 23, 2021, 02:39:29 PM

No.  You can be refused the flight or future flights, but I don’t think arrested is legit.

try taking your mask off mid-flight and refusing to wear it

or gallivanting around the airport w/o said mask and refusing to leave 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 23, 2021, 03:45:03 PM

I think I will try those.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 23, 2021, 03:46:59 PM

gonna have to run like OJ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 23, 2021, 03:54:00 PM

Be sure to order yourself up a white Bronco, too.  Ford is making them again...

(https://i.imgur.com/KAC2N4r.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 23, 2021, 05:38:52 PM

Quote from: utee94 on September 23, 2021, 03:54:00 PM

Be sure to order yourself up a white Bronco, too.  Ford is making them again...

(https://i.imgur.com/KAC2N4r.jpg)

😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 24, 2021, 03:59:44 AM

Quote from: utee94 on September 23, 2021, 03:54:00 PM

Be sure to order yourself up a white Bronco, too.  Ford is making them again...

(https://i.imgur.com/KAC2N4r.jpg)

in a stroke of genius- Ford didn't even know they were doing this but PROBABLY should've researched it- Ford was slated to debut the Bronco on......OJ Simpson's birthday. When they caught hell on twitter over it they moved the date back.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 24, 2021, 04:01:51 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on September 23, 2021, 03:03:38 PM

They should erect a Lori Lightfoot stature where the Columbus statue used to be.

Not convinced that mutant is even human. I think it's an alien who came here to see if people were stupid enough to make him a leader in a major city in this planets richest/most powerful country.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 24, 2021, 08:45:41 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 23, 2021, 01:29:43 PM

In other news...

I challenged a flight attendant today.

Need to challenge airport managers too, if I can find out how.

All throughout both airports this morning, and on the flight, we had to hear about how it's "Federal Law that we must wear masks on airplanes and in airports."

Federal Law?

Did I miss the House and Senate votes on the bill, and the signage into law at the White House?

Did I miss all that?

How did you challenge them?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 24, 2021, 08:58:28 AM

I told him it was not a law. He insisted it was. I told him to open up his phone (we were landed at this time, and in row 1 of the plane) and look up his law.

He said that moving forward he will refer to it as a mandate - not a law.

I win.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 24, 2021, 09:04:08 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on September 24, 2021, 03:59:44 AM

in a stroke of genius- Ford didn't even know they were doing this but PROBABLY should've researched it- Ford was slated to debut the Bronco on......OJ Simpson's birthday. When they caught hell on twitter over it they moved the date back.

Ha!  I didn't know that.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 24, 2021, 09:06:31 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 24, 2021, 08:58:28 AM

I told him it was not a law. He insisted it was. I told him to open up his phone (we were landed at this time, and in row 1 of the plane) and look up his law.

He said that moving forward he will refer to it as a mandate - not a law.

I win.

So if they just refer to it as a federal order (which is kind of what it is), this is a victory?

Alright. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 24, 2021, 09:16:06 AM

It's not a LAW made by the people, for the people.

It's a mandate by unelected officials in the swamp.

See the difference? 

C'mon man.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on September 24, 2021, 10:49:12 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUjtViCsb8E

I know a lot of people involved in this, but I haven't watched it yet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 24, 2021, 02:53:39 PM

NASA's James Webb Space Telescope Will Launch Into Orbit in December | Smart News | Smithsonian Magazine (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/nasas-james-webb-space-telescope-will-launch-into-orbit-early-winter-180978727/?fbclid=IwAR25KjUC3lBEzkYCLVrYgRYGxqYvkzXm--dUvig1p6OXxTl6e0eSmF3CxCk)

A big deal, I suspect.

(https://i.imgur.com/EYqKSy3.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 24, 2021, 02:56:43 PM

hopefully, it can solve the climate change issue

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 24, 2021, 07:43:13 PM

China's largest real estate developer on the brink of collapse- could bring the Chinese economy to it's knees. Evergrande is $368 billion in debt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YF8qiU5XsM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWLb25U5lnA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 27, 2021, 08:47:54 AM

UGA opens an 18 point favorite over Arky, apparently, if I were betting I'd take Arky, that's a large spread.  I expect a close lowish scoring game.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 27, 2021, 08:50:29 AM

Pigs' defense is pretty decent. I think Georgia will win but I agree that spread seems too large.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 27, 2021, 09:59:42 AM

pretty shocking revelations that everyone should take time to read;

https://news.yahoo.com/kidnapping-assassination-and-a-london-shoot-out-inside-the-ci-as-secret-war-plans-against-wiki-leaks-090057786.html (https://news.yahoo.com/kidnapping-assassination-and-a-london-shoot-out-inside-the-ci-as-secret-war-plans-against-wiki-leaks-090057786.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 27, 2021, 04:18:09 PM

Is that about SMU in the early 80s?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 27, 2021, 04:46:12 PM

No, but this is:

(https://i.imgur.com/PhMaFmH.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 28, 2021, 01:10:38 PM

Developers: Midtown tower officially a go over Peachtree, 6th streets | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/midtown-tower-development-peachtree-6th-streets-construction)

Analysis: Atlanta (almost) leads nation in office market recovery | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/office-market-leasing-recovery-leads-nation-almost)

BeltLine-fronting megaproject starts to rise over Historic Fourth Ward Park | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/beltline-development-apartments-fourth-ward-park-new-city)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 29, 2021, 08:11:17 AM

Bruder EXP-8 Is the Ultimate Off-Road Camper Trailer for Overlanding (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/news/bruder-exp-8-off-road-camper-trailer/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR1RgdXdMmc9QMhnNdKZxPRhfxJuQono0xdL9mb-nhmqw8BQCyfKPmihD3M)



About $180 K.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 29, 2021, 08:42:27 AM

So, we have a bunch of sliding glass doors in this unit, 8 I think.  One handle was loose and the screw was stripped, I thought.  Anyway, I get it apart (never done this before) and find it's broken inside.  I ordered a new door handle, they APPEAR to all be the same dimensions, I can't tell why they could be nonstandard, we'll see.

If this works and is easy, I may replace them all.  They are pretty crappy, probably 33 years old now, and ugly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 29, 2021, 08:45:01 AM

how come this is the first I'm hearing about this...and why the hell didn't this happen? Omg. 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2799193-peyton-manning-almost-went-to-michigan-to-get-away-from-sec-says-dad-archie

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on September 29, 2021, 09:03:56 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on September 29, 2021, 08:45:01 AM

how come this is the first I'm hearing about this...and why the hell didn't this happen? Omg.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2799193-peyton-manning-almost-went-to-michigan-to-get-away-from-sec-says-dad-archie

Because you can't spell Citrus without UT.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 29, 2021, 09:04:04 AM

"A lot of people don't know this, but Peyton almost went to Michigan," Archie Manning said during an "Evening with Manning and Miles" at the Oakbourne Country Club in Lafayette, Louisiana, per Glenn Guilbeau of the Daily Advertiser. (https://www.shreveporttimes.com/story/sports/college/lsu/2018/10/04/louisiana-icons-archie-manning-les-miles-put-show-lafayette/1522927002/) "He wanted to get away from the Southeastern Conference and carve his own."

I wonder if there was simply a discussion of hypotheticals at some point that wasn't all that serious.  "I wonder if I should go to maybe a B1G program like Michigan to get away from this SEC stuff?".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 29, 2021, 09:18:52 AM

hah, Tee Martin may have started in the Orange bowl vs the Huskers and kept the game close

Manning would have blown out the Cougars in the Rose

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 29, 2021, 05:33:02 PM

2021 College Football Predictions | FiveThirtyEight (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2021-college-football-predictions/)

Meh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 30, 2021, 02:50:25 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on September 29, 2021, 08:45:01 AM

how come this is the first I'm hearing about this...and why the hell didn't this happen? Omg.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2799193-peyton-manning-almost-went-to-michigan-to-get-away-from-sec-says-dad-archie

to actually beat Florida once

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2021, 10:26:29 AM

Almost 90 murders in Chicago. In September, which still has one more night to go.

It's so bad, even the Bears are getting out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 30, 2021, 10:31:55 AM

Is that for real, the Bears are leaving Chicago? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 30, 2021, 10:33:41 AM

They are moving to the burbs. 

Bear flight? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 30, 2021, 11:04:57 AM

Lots of teams move out to the burbs, just never thought Chicago would be one of them.  Soldier Field has always seemed so much a part of their identity.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2021, 11:05:44 AM

Quote from: utee94 on September 30, 2021, 10:31:55 AM

Is that for real, the Bears are leaving Chicago?

Yep. They just bought Arlington International Racecourse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2021, 11:07:45 AM

Quote from: utee94 on September 30, 2021, 11:04:57 AM

Lots of teams move out to the burbs, just never thought Chicago would be one of them.  Soldier Field has always seemed so much a part of their identity.

It was, until the city f'd it up.

They played in Wrigley until 1971.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 30, 2021, 11:11:33 AM

They should replace Soldier Field with a gigantic statue of Lori Lightfoot that just towers over the Sears Tower. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 30, 2021, 11:13:00 AM

The Braves famously moved from downtown to a 'burb with probably the worst traffic situation in the city, and no MARTA.

I'm headed to the game tonight in fact hoping for a sweep and a clinch in one deal.

They are pretty good, I don't expect to beat Milwaukee though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 30, 2021, 11:22:34 AM

The Bears should move to Florida.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 30, 2021, 11:27:13 AM

I try and run every other day, if I run every day I don't recover well.  I'm always amazed when after a pretty long run my watch tells me I burned 500-600 Calories.

I can eat that much in 5 minutes or less vs an hour of fairly intense running.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2021, 11:34:46 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 30, 2021, 11:22:34 AM

The Bears should move to Florida.

No.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 30, 2021, 11:34:57 AM

risk/reward

I'm not running unless something is chasing me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2021, 11:35:33 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 30, 2021, 11:34:57 AM

risk/reward

I'm not running unless something is chasing me

Jogging gives me the runs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 30, 2021, 11:41:16 AM

My motivation is baseball fantasy camp.  I had signed up for two this year but the one in November was cancelled.  January is still on.

I try and stay in shape for that, it's very hard on the legs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 30, 2021, 11:41:24 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 30, 2021, 11:34:57 AM

risk/reward

I'm not running unless something is chasing me

Yep. And I'm not actually running away unless that thing is bigger than me. And I'm 6'5" 265#.

And even then I'm not running unless I think that thing can kick my ass. And I'm a 2nd degree black belt. 

So I don't run much. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 30, 2021, 11:44:04 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 30, 2021, 11:41:16 AM

My motivation is baseball fantasy camp.  I had signed up for two this year but the one in November was cancelled.  January is still on.

I try and stay in shape for that, it's very hard on the legs.

Yeah, being a big guy [and the weight that comes naturally with my frame] doesn't really work well with running. I've been going back to the gym, and the treadmill has a little more give than running on a sidewalk, so I usually try to jog long enough to get my HR up into the right band and then try to keep it there with brisk walking and the occasional speed boost back to jogging if my HR drops. 

I've also been trying to work back the weights and a lot more core work.

It'd be nice to say that all this is because I just know it's good for me... But I'd be lying if I said it wasn't because I think I'll start hitting a golf ball farther.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 30, 2021, 12:01:49 PM

I'm 6'4", or used to be, was 180 pounds in HS, now around a persistent 240.  We have a small gym in the building that I use, not many others do.  I also stretch a fair bit.

Every year at baseball I see 30 somethings blowing out hammies or calves or quads, mostly legs.  I'm out there running on the last day, slow, but running, I get sore after, but not too bad.  We play two 7 inning games a day and it adds up.  Baseball is not an old man's sport at all.

I'm going to look into attending a Reds camp I think, they used to have one.  It might overlap timewise though.  The Braves do a super job, about 2.3rds of the attendees come back each year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 30, 2021, 12:08:54 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 30, 2021, 11:41:24 AM

Yep. And I'm not actually running away unless that thing is bigger than me. And I'm 6'5" 265#.

And even then I'm not running unless I think that thing can kick my ass. And I'm a 2nd degree black belt.

So I don't run much.

A lot of things smaller than you could kick your ass; gators, wolves, mountain lions, sharks etc. 

Although in that case you only need to be able to run/swim faster than the slowest guy there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 30, 2021, 12:25:30 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on September 30, 2021, 12:08:54 PM

A lot of things smaller than you could kick your ass; gators, wolves, mountain lions, sharks etc.

Although in that case you only need to be able to run/swim faster than the slowest guy there.

I don't worry about any of those things except mountain lions. That's only when I go hiking--which I need to do more often. I know the areas where they frequent, and the rule is that you don't hike early in the morning or close to dusk, as that's when they hunt. 

Of course, there are some shark reports around...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_NS2H55dxI

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 30, 2021, 12:36:41 PM

My city made the list at #48: https://money.com/collection/best-places-to-live-2021/

I assume they didn't include any places in Florida because they didn't want all 50 best places to live to be in Florida, which is what would have happened if they did it fairly...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2021, 12:47:12 PM

Florida is not part of the US anymore.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 30, 2021, 01:36:37 PM

3 of the top 25 in Texas??

I like the golf course in Flower Mound #4, my brother lives near there and Frisco.  He used to live in Round Rock

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 30, 2021, 01:44:39 PM

These lists of "best whatevers" often vary significantly from year to year.

And of course such things heavily depend on your personal preferences.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 30, 2021, 02:00:31 PM

Chanhassen, MN would not be my preference

There is a nice golf course there - and fresh water

but both are mostly frozen from November to April

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2021, 02:03:12 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 30, 2021, 01:36:37 PM

3 of the top 25 in Texas??

I like the golf course in Flower Mound #4, my brother lives near there and Frisco.  He used to live in Round Rock

Not next year. That's when they join Florida. They have the people. We have the Navy.

And the space launch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 30, 2021, 02:07:19 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/gKzyalP.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 30, 2021, 02:10:01 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 30, 2021, 01:36:37 PM

3 of the top 25 in Texas??

I like the golf course in Flower Mound #4, my brother lives near there and Frisco.  He used to live in Round Rock

My wife's mom & stepdad are in Texas right now looking at houses in Flower Mound. They want to get the hell out of Southern Oregon due to the constant fires--they say it's almost impossible to even go outside during the late summer months because of the smoke. They're also considering Arizona. 

BIL and his family are looking to do the same. If you recall, they were evacuated and the fires came VERY close to their house and farm last summer. They're not sure where in Texas they want to end up yet, but their house has already been listed (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2817-Ball-Rd-Eagle-Pt-OR-97524/144501876_zpid/)... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 30, 2021, 02:10:40 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p180x540/244031957_10223368187945869_6996593362133934075_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=VMoIfS0nQm0AX9i5mmY&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=852ff6f59df8b637cad20c461e19f639&oe=615AE4C8)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 30, 2021, 02:20:48 PM

Georgia reportedly schedules rare home-and-home series against ACC opponent (saturdaydownsouth.com) (https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/georgia-football/georgia-reportedly-schedules-rare-home-and-home-series-against-acc-opponent/?fbclid=IwAR1V_-9unqOihnbY3iDzAWneaNNQaaD95caUdqrxfk3NT4bUZzADVG29otA)

Georgia and NC State have scheduled a home-and-home series for next decade. The Bulldogs will welcome the Wolfpack to Athens on Sept. 17, 2033, then the teams will play again in Raleigh on Sept. 16, 2034.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 30, 2021, 02:38:06 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 30, 2021, 02:10:40 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p180x540/244031957_10223368187945869_6996593362133934075_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=VMoIfS0nQm0AX9i5mmY&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=852ff6f59df8b637cad20c461e19f639&oe=615AE4C8)

hell thats mild with some other stuff thats in there

come on 2022 mid terms

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 30, 2021, 02:39:46 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 30, 2021, 02:20:48 PM

Georgia reportedly schedules rare home-and-home series against ACC opponent (saturdaydownsouth.com) (https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/georgia-football/georgia-reportedly-schedules-rare-home-and-home-series-against-acc-opponent/?fbclid=IwAR1V_-9unqOihnbY3iDzAWneaNNQaaD95caUdqrxfk3NT4bUZzADVG29otA)

Georgia and NC State have scheduled a home-and-home series for next decade. The Bulldogs will welcome the Wolfpack to Athens on Sept. 17, 2033, then the teams will play again in Raleigh on Sept. 16, 2034.

thats great I will have been dead for 5 years by then

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 30, 2021, 02:49:29 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 30, 2021, 02:10:40 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p180x540/244031957_10223368187945869_6996593362133934075_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=VMoIfS0nQm0AX9i5mmY&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=852ff6f59df8b637cad20c461e19f639&oe=615AE4C8)

You're gonna have to be more specific here... It could be one of two things and the graphic doesn't show much:

• If this something that is unique to Pennsylvania and *their* infrastructure bill calls out a vehicle miles driven tax, then it's PA's problem, not mine.
• If this is something that's embedded in the national infrastructure bill saying that states are going to have to enact vehicle miles driven taxes, perhaps in exchange for federal dollars, that's something completely different. 

I think a lot of states right now are upset that with the increase in EVs and the fact that a lot of people stopped driving much during the pandemic, their gasoline excise tax revenues have been dropping. They want a new revenue stream.

I'm just not sure whether this is unique to PA or whether this is effectively forced or incentivized by the infrastructure bill going through Congress. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 30, 2021, 02:50:11 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2021, 02:03:12 PM

Not next year. That's when they join Florida. They have the people. We have the Navy.

And the space launch.

Space launches happening in Texas now, too.  Crazy times.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 30, 2021, 03:42:30 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 30, 2021, 02:49:29 PM

You're gonna have to be more specific here... 

I'm just not sure whether this is unique to PA or whether this is effectively forced or incentivized by the infrastructure bill going through Congress.

well, it's Fox news and I got the pic from Facebook, so could just be BS

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 30, 2021, 04:26:55 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 30, 2021, 03:42:30 PM

well, it's Fox news and I got the pic from Facebook, so could just be BS

You know me, I hold y'all to a higher standard.

Throw down the gauntlet, and you'd better be prepared for the ensuing duel :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 30, 2021, 04:44:33 PM

might have fit better on Mr. N's thread

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 01, 2021, 08:25:03 AM

I got to go to the Braves game with a bid last night, first time I've seen a pro team win a championship (just a division one).  It was quite fun.  38,000 pretty raucous people present, loud for baseball games.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2021, 08:44:42 AM

This is great.

Austin, Texas, police to stop responding to nonemergencies beginning today | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/austin-texas-police-non-emergencies)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 01, 2021, 08:48:53 AM

Wrecking ball for longtime Midtown eateries imminent as towers progress | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/wrecking-ball-longtime-midtown-eateries-imminent-towers-progress)

This is very close to us, the two restaurants were decent, had nice patios.  And there are a lot of large oak trees to be whooshed.  More condos.

I dislike the style of the buildings, too brown and dull for me.  Anyway, progress I guess.

Joe's was one of the first openly gay places around for a restaurant/bar, I've been there twice, they were very nice, not everyone was gay at all.  It's more imagery I think than reality.  Food is typical bar food, or was.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 01, 2021, 08:54:17 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2021, 08:44:42 AM

This is great.

Austin, Texas, police to stop responding to nonemergencies beginning today | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/austin-texas-police-non-emergencies)

defunding results

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 01, 2021, 09:11:32 AM

Yup.  Austin is a shithole.

Good thing I actually live in Cedar Park, Texas,

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 01, 2021, 10:27:39 AM

yup, when you move there, settle in utee's hood

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 01, 2021, 10:27:41 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 30, 2021, 12:36:41 PM

My city made the list at #48: https://money.com/collection/best-places-to-live-2021/

I assume they didn't include any places in Florida because they didn't want all 50 best places to live to be in Florida, which is what would have happened if they did it fairly...

Who writes these stupid lists lol? Some bumfk town in MINI-EH-SOOOOH-TUHHHHHH (throws up in mouth just hearing that accent) the #1 place to live in America? Yeah, ok, nice try and go fk yourself writer of this dumb article.

Boca or Delray best place to live in US imo. Maybe Palm Beach island if you can afford it- but who the hell can afford that these days except billionaires.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 01, 2021, 10:39:43 AM

affordability might be a major factor for this writer

now, if you happen to be a billionaire.............. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 01, 2021, 10:44:14 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 01, 2021, 10:27:41 AM

Who writes these stupid lists lol? Some bumfk town in MINI-EH-SOOOOH-TUHHHHHH (throws up in mouth just hearing that accent) the #1 place to live in America? Yeah, ok, nice try and go fk yourself writer of this dumb article.

Boca or Delray best place to live in US imo. Maybe Palm Beach island if you can afford it- but who the hell can afford that these days except billionaires.

Heck everybody knows Fredericksburg, Texas is the best place to live.

Kinda surprised you didnt know that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 01, 2021, 10:55:13 AM

I could see myself there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 01, 2021, 11:03:36 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 01, 2021, 10:55:13 AM

I could see myself there

Good golfing

annual beer fest

great hunting

very good wine country

no fires

no earthquakes 

no hurricanes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 01, 2021, 11:05:48 AM

Austin is where you live if you don't want your kids to know that there is a world beyond Texas.

It's like a million miles to their nearest border, which is Mexico.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 01, 2021, 11:07:47 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 01, 2021, 11:05:48 AM

Austin is where you live if you don't want your kids to know that there is a world beyond Texas.

It's like a million miles to their nearest border, which is Mexico.

Does the rest of Texas even claim Austin as part of Texas? I thought they believed that Austin was just a bunch of hippie weirdoes and disavowed any connection with them...

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 01, 2021, 10:44:14 AM

Heck everybody knows Fredericksburg, Texas is the best place to live.

Kinda surprised you didnt know that.

Sorry, it's not in South Florida. It's therefore a shithole. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 01, 2021, 11:08:56 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 01, 2021, 11:05:48 AM

Austin is where you live if you don't want your kids to know that there is a world beyond Texas.

It's like a million miles to their nearest border, which is Mexico.

Thats true


when I went to school there it was a 100,000 pop college town

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2021, 11:10:03 AM

The State of Austin is to Texas what the State of Madison is to Wisconsin.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 01, 2021, 11:10:15 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 01, 2021, 11:07:47 AM

Sorry, it's not in South Florida. It's therefore a shithole.

yep dont move there for sure

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 01, 2021, 11:15:34 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 01, 2021, 11:07:47 AM

Does the rest of Texas even claim Austin as part of Texas? I thought they believed that Austin was just a bunch of hippie weirdoes and disavowed any connection with them...
Sorry, it's not in South Florida. It's therefore a shithole.

Exactly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 01, 2021, 11:20:37 AM

Dallas and Houston are actually becoming pretty Austin-y.

The divide between attitudes in the rural communities, and those in the urban communities, grows larger every day.  Same as lots of other states/regions.

And then there's the folks in San Antonio.  As long as they have their heavy metal and tacos, they don't give a rip what's happening in the rest of the state.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 01, 2021, 11:21:15 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 01, 2021, 11:03:36 AM

Good golfing

annual beer fest

great hunting

very good wine country

no fires

no earthquakes

no hurricanes

helluva lot fewer Tornadoes, blizzards, ice storms, subzero temps

gotta be some fishing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 01, 2021, 11:22:33 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 01, 2021, 11:20:37 AM

And then there's the folks in San Antonio.  As long as they have their heavy metal and tacos, they don't give a rip what's happening in the rest of the state.

a small town just north of San Anton would be perfect

and it's probably the birthplace of chili

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 01, 2021, 11:22:41 AM

I love Fredericksburg.  My BIL just bought about 100 acres right outside of town.  I told him to put an extra RV pad out there for me...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2021, 11:26:05 AM

One of my buddies from the Harbor bought a house on Lake Travis to retire to. We will be visiting in the Spring, I think, or maybe next fall. Lots of trips on the docket for 2021 and early 2022.

Munich, Lisbon and a trans-Atlantic cruise in November. Up to Wisconsin for Christmas. The fly to Arizona for New Year, leave there for Cabo on the 2nd.

France in April. Wisconsin all July. We will drive up there. 

Need to figure out how to avoid Illinoi. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 01, 2021, 11:32:57 AM

early spring or late fall, it's warm there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 01, 2021, 11:34:29 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 01, 2021, 11:20:37 AM

Dallas and Houston are actually becoming pretty Austin-y.

The divide between attitudes in the rural communities, and those in the urban communities, grows larger every day.  Same as lots of other states/regions.

And then there's the folks in San Antonio.  As long as they have their heavy metal and tacos, they don't give a rip what's happening in the rest of the state.

I feel like there's an interesting interplay between big cities, the surrounding suburbs, and then the rural areas of the state. 

I really saw it when I lived in GA.

Atlanta is hardcore liberal. The rural areas are hardcore conservative. The Atlanta suburbs are basically libertarian. The social attitudes are a lot more liberal than rural areas because it's still a very metropolitan area where you're exposed to people unlike yourself constantly, but those people have money and they don't want it taxed away so they are fiscally conservative.

It wouldn't surprise me if Dallas and Houston are becoming pretty liberal [by Texas standards], and the surrounding suburbs have people fleeing the city area who are more socially liberal [by Texas standards] but have enough income that they're fiscally conservative and want to keep it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 01, 2021, 11:36:41 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 01, 2021, 11:22:41 AM

I love Fredericksburg.  My BIL just bought about 100 acres right outside of town.  I told him to put an extra RV pad out there for me...

some photos


https://www.shutterstock.com/search/fredericksburg+texas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 01, 2021, 11:44:05 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2021, 11:26:05 AM

One of my buddies from the Harbor bought a house on Lake Travis to retire to. We will be visiting in the Spring, I think, or maybe next fall. Lots of trips on the docket for 2021 and early 2022.

Munich, Lisbon and a trans-Atlantic cruise in November. Up to Wisconsin for Christmas. The fly to Arizona for New Year, leave there for Cabo on the 2nd.

France in April. Wisconsin all July. We will drive up there.

Need to figure out how to avoid Illinoi.

Gimme a call when you're in town!  I live about 10 minutes from Lake Travis.

Well, 10 minutes from part of Lake Travis anyway.  And hour and a half from the opposite side.

But anyway, call me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 01, 2021, 11:44:34 AM

ok, I'll grab a powerball ticket this morning on the way to the muni golf course

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2021, 11:45:45 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 01, 2021, 11:44:05 AM

Gimme a call when you're in town!  I live about 10 minutes from Lake Travis.

Well, 10 minutes from part of Lake Travis anyway.  And hour and a half from the opposite side.

But anyway, call me.

You bet I will.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 01, 2021, 11:46:22 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 01, 2021, 11:34:29 AM

I feel like there's an interesting interplay between big cities, the surrounding suburbs, and then the rural areas of the state.

I really saw it when I lived in GA.

Atlanta is hardcore liberal. The rural areas are hardcore conservative. The Atlanta suburbs are basically libertarian. The social attitudes are a lot more liberal than rural areas because it's still a very metropolitan area where you're exposed to people unlike yourself constantly, but those people have money and they don't want it taxed away so they are fiscally conservative.

It wouldn't surprise me if Dallas and Houston are becoming pretty liberal [by Texas standards], and the surrounding suburbs have people fleeing the city area who are more socially liberal [by Texas standards] but have enough income that they're fiscally conservative and want to keep it.

Suburbs in most of the cities are pretty liberal as well.  There's probably some of that going on here in Texico, but the people with real money that want to protect it, all live on ranches out in the boonies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 01, 2021, 11:48:18 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 01, 2021, 11:07:47 AM

Does the rest of Texas even claim Austin as part of Texas? I thought they believed that Austin was just a bunch of hippie weirdoes and disavowed any connection with them...
Sorry, it's not in South Florida. It's therefore a shithole.

The Horns are their only "helmet." Do they not enjoy statewide popularity? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 01, 2021, 11:51:26 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 01, 2021, 11:22:33 AM

a small town just north of San Anton would be perfect

and it's probably the birthplace of chili

San Angelo? :098:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 01, 2021, 12:06:58 PM

Texas is blowing up thanks in large part to people/businesses fleeing ShitholeCalifornia for Texas.

Only other place I'd consider moving to is probably Texas.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 01, 2021, 12:09:57 PM

betarhoalphadelta, got a couple shirts for ya pal! 

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/A13usaonutL._CLa%7C2140%2C2000%7C91ey-LsQ8wL.png%7C0%2C0%2C2140%2C2000%2B0.0%2C0.0%2C2140.0%2C2000.0_AC_UX342_.png)(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51T3Ib1ugWL._AC_UL1250_.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 01, 2021, 12:17:20 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 01, 2021, 12:06:58 PM

Texas is blowing up thanks in large part to people/businesses fleeing ShitholeCalifornia for Texas.

Only other place I'd consider moving to is probably Texas.

I'm pretty sure you'd like South OC. 

Living here is pretty idyllic with the exception of the high cost of living and the high taxes. But if you can afford to live in SoFla, you can probably afford to live in SoCal. 

You'd hate LA County with a passion though. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 01, 2021, 12:32:45 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 01, 2021, 12:17:20 PM

I'm pretty sure you'd like South OC.

Living here is pretty idyllic with the exception of the high cost of living and the high taxes. But if you can afford to live in SoFla, you can probably afford to live in SoCal.

You'd hate LA County with a passion though.

Are there constant punk rock concerts as was depicted in the early 80s movie Suburbia staring Flea?

:7505:

How far are you from the "TR" house? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 01, 2021, 12:34:20 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 01, 2021, 12:09:57 PM

betarhoalphadelta, got a couple shirts for ya pal!

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/A13usaonutL._CLa%7C2140%2C2000%7C91ey-LsQ8wL.png%7C0%2C0%2C2140%2C2000%2B0.0%2C0.0%2C2140.0%2C2000.0_AC_UX342_.png)(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51T3Ib1ugWL._AC_UL1250_.jpg)

😂😂😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 01, 2021, 12:45:52 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 01, 2021, 11:34:29 AM

I feel like there's an interesting interplay between big cities, the surrounding suburbs, and then the rural areas of the state.

I really saw it when I lived in GA.

Atlanta is hardcore liberal. The rural areas are hardcore conservative. The Atlanta suburbs are basically libertarian. The social attitudes are a lot more liberal than rural areas because it's still a very metropolitan area where you're exposed to people unlike yourself constantly, but those people have money and they don't want it taxed away so they are fiscally conservative.

It wouldn't surprise me if Dallas and Houston are becoming pretty liberal [by Texas standards], and the surrounding suburbs have people fleeing the city area who are more socially liberal [by Texas standards] but have enough income that they're fiscally conservative and want to keep it.

You see that dynamic in Minnesota as well. Minneapolis and St Paul (and to a lesser extent, Rochester and Duluth) are very liberal. The 7-county metro used to be Republican strongholds but they have gotten more and more liberal over the last 10 years. And aside from pockets of outstate MN (most notably the reservations and some Farmer-Labor holdouts up in the Red River country), outstate has gotten very "conservative". 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2021, 01:03:00 PM

The NW burbs of Chicago (W of Arlington) are still pretty conservative. Most of the Western too, and some of the Northern.

It's changing though. People like me are leaving.

Listings in my development, today (just listed):

(https://i.imgur.com/xCbvwiv.png)

Listings in my old town, today.

(https://i.imgur.com/IXqBjGQ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 01, 2021, 01:12:34 PM

Chicago's huge. 

I bet very few lifers have been to every single suburb in the metro at least once.

I lived in Columbus for 30 years, and only made it to Pickerington a couple of times for example. 

Chicago is way bigger than that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2021, 01:38:16 PM

Well, given what I do for a living, and having done it in and around Chicago for 34 years, I can say I've been everywhere and seen everything.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 01, 2021, 01:59:58 PM

I bet. 

I suppose it helps not having much of an east side to have to explore, due to the lake being where it is. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2021, 02:02:09 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 01, 2021, 01:59:58 PM

I bet.

I suppose it helps not having much of an east side to have to explore, due to the lake being where it is.

Been out on that lake several times too. Hundreds of times, actually.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2021, 02:05:36 PM

We had a contract with the gas company in Chicago. Because we were new surveyor on the list, we got all the shit areas.

I witnessed two murders, and testified for one of them.

I had about $150K in equipment stolen out of locked vehicles (they smash windows).

I've been mugged twice.

Chicago is a shithole.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 01, 2021, 04:16:17 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 01, 2021, 01:12:34 PM

Chicago's huge.

I bet very few lifers have been to every single suburb in the metro at least once.

I lived in Columbus for 30 years, and only made it to Pickerington a couple of times for example.

Chicago is way bigger than that.

Just last year I discovered myself in a whole neighborhood in Phoenix I'd never seen or heard of.  Probably because it wasn't on the way to anywhere, just a valley between 2 little mountains. 
I was visiting a lady friend who just got pregnant as her son turned 18.  I can't believe she wants to do all of that agian, lol

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 01, 2021, 08:22:12 PM

Finally hitting the Friday Night Lights. Been a while

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 02, 2021, 06:55:01 AM

Obviously the ATL changed a lot since I last lived here in 1972.  The interesting thing to me is how many very sketchy neighborhoods in the city are not middle or upper middle class areas.  I recall North Avernue was a place to avoid east of Peachtree Street.  And the 'burbs are nothing like what I knew.  They just opened a large park west of me a few miles, an area that was sort of mixed light industrial and modest homes now slowly gentrifying.  We weren't all that impressed with the park but it just opened.  Of course, a lot of change over 50 years is expected.  When I'd come back to visit, I'd stay in the 'burbs most of the time.

There is a nice area NW of us called Vinings I'd never been through that we go for lunch on the river after hitting Costco.  The name Vinings sounds sketchy to me.  We also have an area called Cabbagetown that has gentrified.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 02, 2021, 07:45:15 AM

Had an excellent meal at one of the local Japanese place last night. Not one of those cook in front of you places. Everything is prepared either at the sushi bar or in the kitchen. Fantastic.

This was my dish:

(https://i.imgur.com/6lKq36d.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 02, 2021, 07:46:53 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 01, 2021, 01:59:58 PM

I bet.

I suppose it helps not having much of an east side to have to explore, due to the lake being where it is.

Badge can’t tell you about the underwater cityscape he built for those who can afford it. Let’s just say, very fancy. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 02, 2021, 08:15:44 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2021, 01:03:00 PM

The NW burbs of Chicago (W of Arlington) are still pretty conservative. Most of the Western too, and some of the Northern.

It's changing though. People like me are leaving.

Listings in my development, today (just listed):

(https://i.imgur.com/xCbvwiv.png)

Listings in my old town, today.

(https://i.imgur.com/IXqBjGQ.png)

The scale and structure of these seems slightly different. Granted, I moved Midwest to South on one and a half occasions, and I recommend it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 02, 2021, 08:19:20 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 02, 2021, 07:45:15 AM

Had an excellent meal at one of the local Japanese place last night. Not one of those cook in front of you places. Everything is prepared either at the sushi bar or in the kitchen. Fantastic.

This was my dish:

(https://i.imgur.com/6lKq36d.jpg)

Looks amazing!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 02, 2021, 08:22:51 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 02, 2021, 08:15:44 AM

The scale and structure of these seems slightly different. Granted, I moved Midwest to South on one and a half occasions, and I recommend it.

OK, well here is an area of my old town, which includes the two neighborhoods I lived in while there. This is about the same size area of the development I now live in, which is 600+ acres.


(https://i.imgur.com/KGJf775.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 02, 2021, 11:15:39 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on October 01, 2021, 12:45:52 PM

You see that dynamic in Minnesota as well. Minneapolis and St Paul (and to a lesser extent, Rochester and Duluth) are very liberal. The 7-county metro used to be Republican strongholds but they have gotten more and more liberal over the last 10 years. And aside from pockets of outstate MN (most notably the reservations and some Farmer-Labor holdouts up in the Red River country), outstate has gotten very "conservative".

I was just thinking about this. You know what other place is like this in a lot of ways?

California. 

I just moved from a blood red state to a swing state. The local politics around me shifted somewhat, but not really. It's just that I went from a mid-sized city in a state without a major metro to a state with two very large metros. Obviously the dilution of suburbs factors in (i.e. if the city center is one way, the alignment of suburbs can shift everything), but in a lot of places, its just a matter of the urban areas being that much bigger and denser, even if huge swaths of the territory go the other way (NY/CA/Illinois are like this). 

It strikes me that in some ways, as much as we like to pretend all these places are highly different, there's a lot more in common than we think. Then again, I moved from one extreme to another, and came away generally finding most people in most places to be mostly fine, even if people like to indulge in what I'd call somewhat childish regionalism. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 02, 2021, 04:34:11 PM

Anyone living in an urban dense area needs more government than someone living in a rural area, and the 'burbs are in between.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 03, 2021, 03:14:52 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/2BLpdxC.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 03, 2021, 04:02:39 PM

Speaking of restaurants, I commented to the wife how there seem to be only a few kinds out there:

1.  Fast food, you're hungry and just want food quickly, meh.  At times it's OK.
2.  Bar food, this is the most pervasive, it ranges from pretty bad to decent, but almost the same menu everywhere.
3.  "Ethnic" foods, which are to me a different take on bar food.  A few places can be memorable, but only a few.
4.  Over priced places, often hotel restaurants and the like, or famous name places.
5.  Hidden gems, for some reason, they stay hidden, ha, except when some mag outs them, and the mag often is wrong.
6.  Really good places worth paying extra for dining out.  You leave smiling (and poorer).

And yes, you have specialty places, steak or seafood, etc.  They often are under 4.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 07, 2021, 06:39:40 AM

Update on life here:  Pretty much normal, a lot of businesses have mask signs up, but a fair number of folks ignore entirely or barely wear a mask, usually with nose out.  I've had to show my vaccine card once when we went to a concert.  

We're leaving Friday for Colorado, by air, should be interesting, staying in Breckenridge and then up near RM NP.

The leaves here are just starting to fall, not change color so much as just littering the sidewalks, which makes it slippery when it rains, which it has been doing.  Our greater restaurant tour has abated somewhat, I had been trying a new place every Wednesday.  I am somewhat concluding they are "all the same", kind of, with the obvious differences, but value for money doesn't seem to have a real sweet spot that I have found.  The ethnic restaurants are closest I think, the ones up Buford Highway, but that's a bit of a drive for us, Hispanic and Asian places abound out there.

I'm still running a good but, probably will ease off in Colorado, Breck is at 3,000 M ASL.  We hope to do some hiking.  They have snow in their forecast on a few days we're there.  On Tuesday their predicted low is 22°F.  We're still hitting the 80s here of course, though that is falling off next week.  Heavier coat time for sure.

I do enjoy CFB season, not all of it, but SFSG.  Sitting on our couch all Saturday is not a great plan but I enjoy it, probably won't attend a game this year.  I might go to the Tech-UGA game, it's in walking distance, maybe two miles.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 07, 2021, 09:15:13 AM

GM-backed Cruise targets 1 million self-driving vehicles by 2030 (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/07/gm-backed-cruise-targets-1-million-self-driving-vehicles-by-2030.html)

We have discussed this a bit previously.  This goal, if achieved, would still be a small percentage of course, but for Lyft/taxis etc. it could really penetrate in larger cities.  This could alter our basic transportation structure in cities a lot, I think.  It might no longer make any sense to take short drives in a personal vehicle,  or ride a bus, or even take a train.  

Folks here want to build some light rail, I wonder if the above is not a better option, build a dedicated road for these vehicles and forget the rail thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 07, 2021, 09:49:03 AM

Long way off IMO when the flurries start flying up North

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 07, 2021, 09:56:28 AM

I haven't been to the Breckenridge area since I was in high school - skiing

my youngest daughter is engaged and planning a wedding in Silverthorne, near Breckenridge 12 months from now 

I will be doing a recon mission there at some point

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 07, 2021, 10:12:47 AM

I stayed in Breckenridge in 2004, I liked the town a good bit.  That was in summer.  The wife is not much for cold weather, which for her is anything under 70°F.

I'll give a full report.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 07, 2021, 10:20:53 AM

A friend of mine did a century bike ride this summer that ended in Breckenridge. Called the Triple Bypass due to the fact that it went over 3 high passes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2021, 10:23:43 AM

I just got back from Vegas - apparently they have a mask mandate.   I didn't go to any casinos.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 07, 2021, 10:27:52 AM

What's Better Than Super? GM's Ultra Cruise Brings Hands-Free Driving to the Street (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/news/whats-better-super-gms-ultra-cruise-brings-hands-free-driving-street/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR1bw6w4HOjHdM67yMiT0Vq1mQGGSnGQNf7ENtrPeaPHqrgmLMv1PK9m3nQ)

Level 2, for streets now.  We're getting there, slowly, but making progress.

This will shake things up a good bit I think in 6-7-8-9 years, or so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2021, 10:30:32 AM

I've been doing hands-free driving ever since I went through my first drive-thru...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 07, 2021, 10:46:53 AM

Since I know you all consider my word gospel when it comes to food...

I do not care whether it's a taco, or a sandwich.

What I know is that it looks disgusting, it's from Taco Bell so it probably is disgusting, and I will not be eating it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 07, 2021, 10:47:57 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 07, 2021, 09:15:13 AM

GM-backed Cruise targets 1 million self-driving vehicles by 2030 (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/07/gm-backed-cruise-targets-1-million-self-driving-vehicles-by-2030.html)

We have discussed this a bit previously.  This goal, if achieved, would still be a small percentage of course, but for Lyft/taxis etc. it could really penetrate in larger cities.  This could alter our basic transportation structure in cities a lot, I think.  It might no longer make any sense to take short drives in a personal vehicle,  or ride a bus, or even take a train. 

Folks here want to build some light rail, I wonder if the above is not a better option, build a dedicated road for these vehicles and forget the rail thing.

Just about anything is better than light rail, which is basically a way that rich suburban yuppies can claim they're "using transit" and "being green" but don't have to sully themselves by taking a bus. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 07, 2021, 10:51:42 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 07, 2021, 10:46:53 AM

Since I know you all consider my word gospel when it comes to food...

I do not care whether it's a taco, or a sandwich.

What I know is that it looks disgusting, it's from Taco Bell so it probably is disgusting, and I will not be eating it.

Taco Bell is good, actually

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 07, 2021, 11:14:58 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 07, 2021, 10:51:42 AM

Taco Bell is good, actually

Maybe it's the best Mexican food y'all get in O-hi-o, but we have higher standards out here ;-) 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 07, 2021, 11:20:55 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 07, 2021, 11:14:58 AM

Maybe it's the best Mexican food y'all get in O-hi-o, but we have higher standards out here ;-)

The problem is calling it Mexican food. It's fast food and must be compared to fast food. The steak breakfast crunchwrap is hands down the best fast food breakfast item out there.

BTW, Columbus, sneakily underrated in Latino food. There is a Venezuelan restaurant by the courthouse that is just awesome. They moved out of an alley a few blocks away, and an Argentinian restaurant moved in there, which is also pretty danged good. Not just taco places anymore.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 07, 2021, 12:18:04 PM

Taco Bell was the only place open later than 9 PM near where I lived in Rochester. Depending on what you order, it's not so bad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 07, 2021, 12:20:49 PM

Taco Bell is disgusting but I can't say I don't crave it on occasion.  I ate a ton of it during my undegrad days in college, like many other folks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2021, 12:20:54 PM

It's funny to me that in all these rural GA towns, the first non-fast food joint, after a BBQ place, is a mexican joint 99% of the time.  
Keep out those Messicans, but.....make me dinner, first.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2021, 12:24:54 PM

Taco Bell tastes better after 2am.  That's science.
.
And something doesn't have to be "quality" to be "good."  You can enjoy a 2-star movie or have pride in a $15K car.  
We go to Taco Bell for variety, for the most part.  It's not another burger.  It's not fried chicken.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 07, 2021, 12:32:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2021, 12:20:54 PM

It's funny to me that in all these rural GA towns, the first non-fast food joint, after a BBQ place, is a mexican joint 99% of the time. 
Keep out those Messicans, but.....make me dinner, first.

😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 07, 2021, 12:34:14 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2021, 12:24:54 PM

Taco Bell tastes better after 2am.  That's science.
.
And something doesn't have to be "quality" to be "good."  You can enjoy a 2-star movie or have pride in a $15K car. 
We go to Taco Bell for variety, for the most part.  It's not another burger.  It's not fried chicken. 

All quite true.


I enjoy watching Texas football even though it hasn't been good in over a decade.

Wait, bad example.  I do NOT enjoy watching bad Texas football... :(

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 07, 2021, 12:40:35 PM

I'm pretty meh on most fast food. I used to like Chipotle, but my experiences there have been so hit and miss lately that I am mostly done with them. Cane's is a favorite of the kids - it's fine for what it is. I don't really get into most of the chicken places. Jimmy John's isn't bad if I'm in the mood for a sandwich. Anyway, Taco Bell is up there over the usual suspects. At least you get hot sauce.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2021, 01:27:02 PM

I've started frequenting Jersey Mike's for whatever reason.  
It's so strange to me that the line for Cane's is infinite while Portillo's and a dozen other places aren't.  
I went out around midnight last night for food and my options were McDonalds, Whataburger, In-and-Out, and Cane's.  I kind of went to Whataburger by default, as McDonalds is McDonalds and the other two had 30+ cars in the lines.  

I'll never ever ever understand waiting 45 min for fast food.  Get something from a gas station, lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 07, 2021, 01:36:24 PM

I avoid FF on principle unless traveling.  We had lunch today at Farm Buger, an honest sort of place, with beer, and good burgers.  They were quite busy which was nice to see, we got to know the manager and she's very nice.

The burgers came out fast.  I had a chicken burger and the wife had their salad.  We have a Chipotle nearby and a Panera and that is it for chain fast food near us, other than Chick-Fil-A, which is always packed for lunch.  There is a nice small park outside CFA ideal for dining.

A buddy of mine is about to open a new place near there, same complex, looks interesting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 07, 2021, 01:55:33 PM

Taco Bell tacos are cheap meat, not particularly flavorfully seasoned, covered in cheese shredded to about the diameter of a human hair that tastes more like the anti-caking agent covering it than actual cheese, and limp lettuce. You can make it a "supreme" and get a tiny squirt of sour cream and a few diced tomatoes. 

Yeah, you get hot sauce, which is necessary to make it palatable. And their "Fire" sauce is one step above mild. You don't even get real hot sauce. 

Pretty much the entire rest of their menu is the same, except upcharging to wrap that crap in more cheese and a soft tortilla (ooh, it's a "gordita"!), or serve it over chips (ooh, it's "nachos bellgrande"!), etc. 

Most fast food is terrible and just designed to fill your face with cheap calories. I get it. But for Taco Bell to be palatable, even when compared to other fast food, you'd better be drunk or high. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 07, 2021, 04:48:09 PM

hardly ever eat the taco bell meat. even when im drunk. not trying to get food poisoning over here. 

taco bell is gross. except at 3 am when you're drunk as shit. then it tastes awesome.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 07, 2021, 04:55:07 PM

What if you're drunk as shit at 8PM? 

Is it still good?


Asking for a friend.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2021, 04:56:46 PM

If you're drunk as shit at 8pm, you're going to wake up hungryyyyyy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 07, 2021, 06:54:41 PM

This Taco Bell slander shall not stand. Taco Bell is the perfect fast food. It's fast food - of course it is greasy, salty, cheesy and all the other things. It's the same meat that McDonald's serves, just actually seasoned to taste like something. Then they wrap it in cheese and a crunchy shell. Then you douse it with hit sauce. A man who knows the various flavors of Taco Bell hot sauce by name is a man who has made some runs to the border. 

You also can't improve on it. Sure, you can make better tacos. But you can't make better Taco Bell tacos. Chik Fil A is just bland fried chicken. Anyone can make a good hamburger. But no one can make a better Taco Bell taco. It can't be done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 07, 2021, 06:57:44 PM

Quote

I've started frequenting Jersey Mike's for whatever reason.  

I do too, mostly because there is one near my house. It's a little pricy, and I find it annoying that they ask for a tip when you pay. But it's better than Subway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 07, 2021, 08:44:28 PM

The west has a pair of Taco Bell knock offs in Del Taco and Taco Time. All three stay in business even though there is an authentic Mexican restaurant on every other corner that puts Chipotle to shame.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 07, 2021, 09:04:57 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 07, 2021, 08:44:28 PM

The west has a pair of Taco Bell knock offs in Del Taco and Taco Time. All three stay in business even though there is an authentic Mexican restaurant on every other corner that puts Chipotle to shame.

We are not a people with taste 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 07, 2021, 09:14:15 PM

So what is in Taco Bell's seasoned ground beef? Here's the full list of ingredients straight from the company's site:

Beef, Water, Seasoning [Isolated Oat Product, Salt, Chili Pepper, Onion Powder, Tomato Powder, Oats (Wheat), Soy Lecithin, Sugar, Spices, Maltodextrin, Soybean Oil (Anti-dusting Agent), Garlic Powder, Autolyzed Yeast Extract, Citric Acid, Caramel Color, Cocoa Powder (Processed With Alkali), Silicon Dioxide, Natural Flavors, Yeast, Modified Corn Starch, Natural Smoke Flavor], Salt, Sodium Phosphates. CONTAINS SOYBEANS, WHEAT

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2021, 10:31:37 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 07, 2021, 09:14:15 PM

So what is in Taco Bell's seasoned ground beef? Here's the full list of ingredients straight from the company's site:

Beef, Water, Seasoning [Isolated Oat Product, Salt, Chili Pepper, Onion Powder, Tomato Powder, Oats (Wheat), Soy Lecithin, Sugar, Spices, Maltodextrin, Soybean Oil (Anti-dusting Agent), Garlic Powder, Autolyzed Yeast Extract, Citric Acid, Caramel Color, Cocoa Powder (Processed With Alkali), Silicon Dioxide, Natural Flavors, Yeast, Modified Corn Starch, Natural Smoke Flavor], Salt, Sodium Phosphates. CONTAINS SOYBEANS, WHEAT

(https://i.imgur.com/rVyRxfw.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2021, 10:32:48 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 07, 2021, 08:44:28 PM

The west has a pair of Taco Bell knock offs in Del Taco and Taco Time. All three stay in business even though there is an authentic Mexican restaurant on every other corner that puts Chipotle to shame.

Yeah, I don't know how Del Taco exists.
In addition to having ALL the legit Mexican restaurants, Phoenix has taco trucks in semi-permanent places all over, especially at night.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on October 08, 2021, 12:43:27 PM

There was a Del Taco in one of the dorms at Indiana, near the football stadium, and one of my friends tried to plan his schedule around being near there at lunch, just to eat there every day.  I never got it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 08, 2021, 02:26:31 PM

Quote from: ELA on October 08, 2021, 12:43:27 PM

There was a Del Taco in one of the dorms at Indiana, near the football stadium, and one of my friends tried to plan his schedule around being near there at lunch, just to eat there every day.  I never got it.

It's as terrible as Taco Bell. But on the bright side, they sell bad burgers too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2021, 05:20:22 PM

Finally in Breckinridge Atlanta airport insanely crowded

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 08, 2021, 05:34:55 PM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BYNoQZ5djUA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 08, 2021, 06:35:28 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 08, 2021, 02:26:31 PM

It's as terrible as Taco Bell. But on the bright side, they sell bad burgers too.

Enough can't be said for consistency

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 08, 2021, 08:34:46 PM

I was thinking of going to see a HS game tonight.  Arizona State is actually playing Stanford, too.  
Meh, I have to work on Whoa Nellie orders.
30 team order, mostly late-80s WAC teams.  Very unique.  Lots to do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on October 08, 2021, 08:43:15 PM

Presented without comment

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/the-zoo-keeper-who-fathered-five-chicks-with-a-murderous-endangered-crane/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 08, 2021, 08:55:12 PM

Quote from: ELA on October 08, 2021, 08:43:15 PM

Presented without comment

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/the-zoo-keeper-who-fathered-five-chicks-with-a-murderous-endangered-crane/

Actually/ cool story.   Don’t piss her off. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on October 09, 2021, 03:12:58 AM

Have had some delicious tacos here in college Station.   The north could learn a lot.

Need a make a deal here,  I'll show you how to make pork tenderloin sandwiches,  and you show us your breakfast tacos. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2021, 09:58:35 AM

Lots and lots of Florida here.

25 Cities Americans Are Flocking To (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/25-cities-americans-are-flocking-to/ss-AAPf81J?ocid=msedgntp)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 10, 2021, 10:18:34 AM

We have snow on the ground here, a bit, much more up higher.  The aspens are gorgeous.

Breckinridge

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 10, 2021, 10:58:01 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2021, 09:58:35 AM

Lots and lots of Florida here.

25 Cities Americans Are Flocking To (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/25-cities-americans-are-flocking-to/ss-AAPf81J?ocid=msedgntp)

13 of the top 25 in the sunshine state. Makes sense if you think about it. Awesome weather year round, has the best beaches in the US by far, no state income tax, state gov't that's friendly to businesses, the best governor in the US by a country mile who wants freedom for the people of his state, and it's still east coast so short plane rides to biggest cities of the northeast (NY/NJ/Boston) and midwest (Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Indianapolis etc.).

Florida is literally the only place in US that I'd ever live. Everywhere else is a shithole. (jk).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 10, 2021, 11:11:07 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 10, 2021, 10:58:01 AM

13 of the top 25 in the sunshine state. Makes sense if you think about it. Awesome weather year round, has the best beaches in the US by far, no state income tax, state gov't that's friendly to businesses, the best governor in the US by a country mile who wants freedom for the people of his state,

While you're busy sucking his dick, since June 20, FL had the most Covid deaths AND death rate per capita in the country (3x the people dead as draconian CA, which has twice the population).
Maybe freedom does have a cost, but I thought that was a military thing...not an average citizen thing. 
And maybe "business > lives" isn't a great plan when you have the oldest average population in the country, either.

But what do I know, I'm a crazy radical.
Now by all means, continue your b.j.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 10, 2021, 11:17:31 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 10, 2021, 11:11:07 AM

While you're busy sucking his dick, since June 20, FL had the most Covid deaths AND death rate per capita in the country (3x the people dead as draconian CA, which has twice the population).
Maybe freedom does have a cost, but I thought that was a military thing...not an average citizen thing. 
And maybe "business > lives" isn't a great plan when you have the oldest average population in the country, either.

But what do I know, I'm a crazy radical.
Now by all means, continue your b.j.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/SYeqCzR3cWnKsB1nW-AbaHmfDh2qiEL9fjea00d-L7sdYkb1z6M9_xcP_--4EceytP9kuNpXNgFo5nCSYAoWAQbF49UwLl-JcsmEOB5813OD-mj5jLp50P78JTIWih9gpJfdzkknhBGbUjoBypIBo4-FN9PP2Ktk7NU)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 10, 2021, 12:41:05 PM

It's funny how all I get back is insults.  No, it's not a me being butthurt about it, but the total lack of substance from any retort is telling.  
Insult me all you like, just keep your head out of the sand when it comes to your beloved political goons.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on October 10, 2021, 05:44:51 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 10, 2021, 11:11:07 AM

While you're busy sucking his dick, since June 20, FL had the most Covid deaths AND death rate per capita in the country (3x the people dead as draconian CA, which has twice the population).
Maybe freedom does have a cost, but I thought that was a military thing...not an average citizen thing. 
And maybe "business > lives" isn't a great plan when you have the oldest average population in the country, either.

But what do I know, I'm a crazy radical.
Now by all means, continue your b.j.

Anybody who wanted the vaccine by now could have gotten it. time to go on with our lives and stop hiding. COVID will be here forever, so eventually everybody who is not vaccinated is going to get it. Those that are gonna die from it will still do so. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2021, 08:01:58 AM

Quote from: Gigem on October 10, 2021, 05:44:51 PM

Anybody who wanted the vaccine by now could have gotten it. time to go on with our lives and stop hiding. COVID will be here forever, so eventually everybody who is not vaccinated is going to get it. Those that are gonna die from it will still do so.

This is correct. Almost of of the recent deaths in Florida were among the unvaccinated. Those people were the ones who just would not get it, and never would. So, they were walking dead anyway, in my opinion. Just a matter of time. Just so worked out that the time was short for them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on October 11, 2021, 08:08:24 AM

Its hard to understand the reluctance to get the vaccine.  So much tragedy that it seems everyone would personally know someone who's life has been taken or drastically altered for the worse.  It is a very scary disease.  Do I think people should be forced to get the vaccine unless required for their job for a valid reason?  No.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2021, 08:34:02 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 10, 2021, 11:11:07 AM

While you're busy sucking his dick, since June 20, FL had the most Covid deaths AND death rate per capita in the country (3x the people dead as draconian CA, which has twice the population).
Maybe freedom does have a cost, but I thought that was a military thing...not an average citizen thing. 
And maybe "business > lives" isn't a great plan when you have the oldest average population in the country, either.

But what do I know, I'm a crazy radical.
Now by all means, continue your b.j.

Lots to process here.

All of those people who died (>98%) were unvaccinated. There is no anti-vax mandate here, so, the people who died have only themselves to blame.

Q: You know who is best at running a business? 
A: Business owners.

Q: You know who is best at killing a business?
A: Heroes like the ones in Illinois, California, New York, etc.

Q: You know who needs successful businesses the most?
A: The heroes who have done their best to kill them off.



Finally, I can't believe why so many people are moving to this terrible place, mostly from places led by heroes. 

I need to get back to work now, on Columbus Day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 11, 2021, 08:45:27 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2021, 09:58:35 AM

Lots and lots of Florida here.

25 Cities Americans Are Flocking To (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/25-cities-americans-are-flocking-to/ss-AAPf81J?ocid=msedgntp)

Enjoy all the new neighbors 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2021, 08:50:29 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 11, 2021, 08:45:27 AM

Enjoy all the new neighbors

And all of the new businesses that will come with them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 11, 2021, 08:50:39 AM

Quote from: Gigem on October 10, 2021, 05:44:51 PM

Anybody who wanted the vaccine by now could have gotten it. time to go on with our lives and stop hiding. COVID will be here forever, so eventually everybody who is not vaccinated is going to get it. Those that are gonna die from it will still do so.

I'm not sure this is technically true. But we've probably passed to the other side that the unwillingly unvaccinated (at least among the adult populace), is a small enough group to write off.

I remain confused as to who is hiding. But I guess someone is. I suppose many of the ones doing it are the ones who want to, which, hey, freedom and such. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 11, 2021, 08:56:18 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2021, 08:50:29 AM

And all of the new businesses that will come with them.

Was Florida hurting for businesses before? I'm happy it will get more.

(I know, I know, I'm sassin' a bit. If it makes you happy/proud that you live in a state that's growing, I'm happy you're happy. I've lived some interesting places in the midst of economic changes, so perhaps I'm just getting old with my outlook. Hopefully wizened too, but that might be ambitious)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2021, 09:27:38 AM

I wouldn't say FL was hurting for business. I like having more choices, and given what I do for a living I'm able to easily follow the background moves developers and municipal leaders are contemplating.

Lots of big things are coming to our area.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 11, 2021, 09:42:03 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2021, 09:27:38 AM

I wouldn't say FL was hurting for business. I like having more choices, and given what I do for a living I'm able to easily follow the background moves developers and municipal leaders are contemplating.

Lots of big things are coming to our area.

I see the move, power playing and such. :)

The place I now live is in the late stages of its boom (I think). Stuff going up all over. More choices than I can shake a stick at. Leaves me balancing wanting to explore (which I've been slow to do) and wanting to hold onto funds for other things. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2021, 09:50:55 AM

I'd like to see a Kroger come in here, to give Publix some competition. I know they have options on at least two nearby properties, so we'll see. The demand will be here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 11, 2021, 10:09:35 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2021, 09:50:55 AM

I'd like to see a Kroger come in here, to give Publix some competition. I know they have options on at least two nearby properties, so we'll see. The demand will be here.

That is a grocery option I have not had much experience with. A friend from Michigan considered them a go-to.

I have a Food Lion and a Harris Teeter near my apartment, and a Publix near my office. Publix is still where I go for meat and produce, while Food Lion is for mostly packaged goods and A few things they do well. Teeter is basically only good for things that are on special or when I run out of things that I won’t get it Food lion and I don’t want to drive as far.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 11, 2021, 10:31:47 AM

I'm happy for y'all in Florida... People keep moving in, and pretty soon you'll have as many businesses and options as I've got in California!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 11, 2021, 10:32:24 AM

Because it's clear... Nobody lives in California; it's too crowded 😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2021, 10:42:35 AM

Plenty of options here. Just would like another grocery chain to come in.

We don't do Wal-Mart. Aldi is pretty decent for things. Winn Dixie is OK.

California is too crowded.

(https://i.imgur.com/rzVuLSY.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/gEYHvll.jpg)


Both of these cities are Venice. Guess which one is in Florida.

;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 11, 2021, 10:49:15 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/a8P9Nuf.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 11, 2021, 10:51:02 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 11, 2021, 10:32:24 AM

Because it's clear... Nobody lives in California; it's too crowded 😂

you stole that one from Yogi Berra

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 11, 2021, 11:43:54 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on October 11, 2021, 08:08:24 AM

Its hard to understand the reluctance to get the vaccine.  So much tragedy that it seems everyone would personally know someone who's life has been taken or drastically altered for the worse.  It is a very scary disease.  Do I think people should be forced to get the vaccine unless required for their job for a valid reason?  No. 

As I have already had Covid and recovered, I already have the antibodies that the vaccine proclaims to induce. Therefore, there is no need for me to get the vaccine. There are millions more like me that would NOT benefit from the vaccine. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 11, 2021, 11:48:49 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 11, 2021, 10:31:47 AM

I'm happy for y'all in Florida... People keep moving in, and pretty soon you'll have as many businesses and options as I've got in California!

It goes with out saying they'll leave the light on in Austin for y'all

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 11, 2021, 12:05:18 PM

Sorry folks, Austin's closed.  Moose out front shoulda told ya.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 11, 2021, 12:23:30 PM

Grocery near me (i.e. <5-10 minute drive):

• Right around the corner I've got Smart & Final, which is a sort of discount/bulk grocery chain. 
• A mile from the house is a Persian market, and there's another one within that 5-10 min distance. 
• Within 5 minutes I think there are probably 3 Ralph's (local version of Kroger).
• There's a highly rated Indian market.
• El Toro Meats, my gourmet butcher shop.
• There's at least 1 Pavilions (high end version of Vons, which is the local version of Safeway).
• Multiple Mexican markets and/or carnicerias.
• Target, which has a grocery.
• Multiple Albertson's (the lowest version of Safeway).
• Stater Bro's (not sure if they're a division of another grocer).
• Multiple Sprouts (natural/organic foods).
• Multiple Trader Joe's.
• Grocery Outlet (another discount/bulk shop).

A little farther...

• Within a ~10 mile radius I have at least 5 Costco's. 
• Multiple more Pavilions, Ralph's, Targets, Walmart.
• Into Irvine gets some really complete Asian markets.
• Multiple Whole Foods.

And there are probably specialty places I don't even know about or haven't listed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 11, 2021, 12:45:09 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 11, 2021, 11:43:54 AM

As I have already had Covid and recovered, I already have the antibodies that the vaccine proclaims to induce. Therefore, there is no need for me to get the vaccine. There are millions more like me that would NOT benefit from the vaccine.

I think the medical info coming out says you’d likely benefit, though somewhat mildly. 

Now, there’s not much evidence/logic it would hurt, but getting it is so intertwined with other stuff at this point, it kind of is what it is.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 11, 2021, 12:56:41 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 11, 2021, 12:45:09 PM

I think the medical info coming out says you’d likely benefit, though somewhat mildly.

Now, there’s not much evidence/logic it would hurt, but getting it is so intertwined with other stuff at this point, it kind of is what it is. 

From what I have read, the vaccine targets a specific spike protein of the original Covid virus but seems to not recognize the spike proteins of the variants. This is why we are seeing so many break through infections of the vaccinated. Also, the antibodies produced are not long lasting, from some reports as little as 2 months. Therefore a booster is required to maintain immunity. 

Contrarily, natural immunity appears to be resilient against the virus and all of it's variants. Also, natural immunity causes B-Cell and T-Cell immunity that will trigger the body to produce antibodies long after the current antibodies in the system are gone. 

I think my wife and I are pretty well set to survive Covid in the long term. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 11, 2021, 01:01:00 PM

So it is Columbus Day for regular Americans, Indigenous Peoples Day for woke White Americans, Thanksgiving for Canadians, and if that wasn't enough, Twitter says that woke White Americans also get to celebrate this today: 

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBbKk5EXIAIor4e?format=jpg&name=900x900)


I'm all for more holidays, but why do they all have to be on the same day? There are 365.25 days per year, folks. Use them. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 11, 2021, 01:04:48 PM

So many interesting assumptions and narratives.   

Guy that works for me ( early 50s) contracted covid this past weekend. 

1. Shows up in Florida data, but clearly contracted it in another state. 
Went with wife to visit out of state daughter in large metro area.  Both fully vaccinated.  Went to a NHL game where proof of vax was required.  Both flights packed 

Both ran fever and other symptoms pretty strong when they returned.  Went to CVS for the test.  While waiting for the results- both went to Regeneron clinic nearby.  Got the shot and within hours- felt better, lost most if not all symptoms. Both tests came back positive.  

2. What does any of this have to do with politics or policy?  Nothing.  Guy did everything right.  In fact the only possible exception is when he emailed me he said “I am thankful that the governor opened all of those Regeneron clinics to make this much more palatable because until I had that shot I felt like shit”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 11, 2021, 01:05:41 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 11, 2021, 12:56:41 PM

From what I have read, the vaccine targets a specific spike protein of the original Covid virus but seems to not recognize the spike proteins of the variants. This is why we are seeing so many break through infections of the vaccinated. Also, the antibodies produced are not long lasting, from some reports as little as 2 months. Therefore a booster is required to maintain immunity.

Contrarily, natural immunity appears to be resilient against the virus and all of it's variants. Also, natural immunity causes B-Cell and T-Cell immunity that will trigger the body to produce antibodies long after the current antibodies in the system are gone.

I think my wife and I are pretty well set to survive Covid in the long term.

I question the use of the words so many

Data supports the number of breakthrough cases being around .5% of those vaccinated and of those only about .9% have required hospitalization and less then 1% have died

in short the vaccine is effective against the new strains at a small decrease in overall protection

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 11, 2021, 01:32:48 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 11, 2021, 12:56:41 PM

From what I have read, the vaccine targets a specific spike protein of the original Covid virus but seems to not recognize the spike proteins of the variants. This is why we are seeing so many break through infections of the vaccinated. Also, the antibodies produced are not long lasting, from some reports as little as 2 months. Therefore a booster is required to maintain immunity.

Contrarily, natural immunity appears to be resilient against the virus and all of it's variants. Also, natural immunity causes B-Cell and T-Cell immunity that will trigger the body to produce antibodies long after the current antibodies in the system are gone.

I think my wife and I are pretty well set to survive Covid in the long term.

Yeah, that's not really accurate. 

• The vaccine protects against all current variants. Delta is much more transmissible, which is why you're seeing breakthrough infections, not because the vaccine doesn't respond to Delta.
• Typical antibody persistence seems to be somewhere in the 6+ month range for the vaccine. It definitely wanes, but not typically in the 2 month window.
• B- and T-cell immunity memory doesn't mean your body will keep producing antibodies long-term. Even in the case of natural infection, your antibodies will wane over time.
• The vaccine has been shown to produce B- and T-cell immunity memory as well. It is not different from natural infection in that case.
• Where B- and T-cell immunity comes into play is not in preventing infection, but in preventing serious illness. There is data that natural infection confers stronger immunity from future infection than the vaccine, as the vaccine wanes. However the vaccine has still been shown to be >90% effective at preventing hospitalization at that 6 month timeframe, which is important.

There is also strong evidence that the immunity conferred by natural infection PLUS the vaccine (and maybe only one shot, not requiring too) is better than either natural infection or the vaccine individually. So there is benefit to anyone who has the natural infection from getting the shot. How much that matters for a young and otherwise healthy individual? I don't have a quantification for that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 11, 2021, 01:39:01 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 11, 2021, 01:01:00 PM

So it is Columbus Day for regular Americans, Indigenous Peoples Day for woke White Americans, Thanksgiving for Canadians, and if that wasn't enough, Twitter says that woke White Americans also get to celebrate this today:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBbKk5EXIAIor4e?format=jpg&name=900x900)


I'm all for more holidays, but why do they all have to be on the same day? There are 365.25 days per year, folks. Use them.

Interestingly, the holiday came into wide scale celebration as a means to placate the Italian community after a lynching of Italian immigrants in 1892.

Back then, making it a holiday was probably a proto-woke act. (Also kind of a silly holiday, but I’ll take the off day)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 11, 2021, 01:40:18 PM

I dunno about all that. 

I'm working today and the kids all have school. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 11, 2021, 01:51:49 PM

Hispanic folk are pretty defensive of Columbus. 

Seems like he would be the poster boy for for the woke White Left. Came to America uninvited from a Spanish speaking country, educated by Islamic Universities, and elevated above the White guy that actually discovered America in Erik the Red. 

Their Columbus rage is actually pretty comical, when you think about it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 11, 2021, 02:05:39 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 11, 2021, 01:40:18 PM

I dunno about all that.

I'm working today and the kids all have school.

Wait, it’s today? 

Well, then it really doesn’t matter to me. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 11, 2021, 02:06:09 PM

Our kids have today and tomorrow off.  They don't call it Columbus Day, or anything else. It's just two rando days in October that the kids have off every year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 11, 2021, 02:52:30 PM

(https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/fastest-trains-in-the-world-chart.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 11, 2021, 02:53:28 PM

(https://elements.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/All-the-Metals-We-Mined.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 11, 2021, 02:53:35 PM

Quote from: utee94 on October 11, 2021, 02:06:09 PM

Our kids have today and tomorrow off.  They don't call it Columbus Day, or anything else. It's just two rando days in October that the kids have off every year.

At Purdue we had what was called OctoberBreak, which was a Mon/Tues in October that offset the week in November for Thanksgiving, when students had Wed/Thu/Fri off. 

It didn't particularly coordinate with Columbus Day.

My fraternity used to use that 4-day weekend to organize a houseboat trip down at Lake Cumberland in Kentucky. 25-35 guys and some of their girlfriends, split up across 2-3 boats typically, and enough alcohol to kill the state of Utah. Those were fun trips--what I remember of them anyway!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 11, 2021, 03:28:41 PM

Minnesota K-12 schools have next Thursday and Friday off, with the original intent being for teachers to attend the teachers' union convention those days, hence the term MEA break. Wisconsin K12 schools have the following week off.

The U of M fall semester goes straight from Labor Day to Thanksgiving with no breaks. That's a long haul.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 11, 2021, 03:36:00 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2021, 09:50:55 AM

I'd like to see a Kroger come in here, to give Publix some competition. I know they have options on at least two nearby properties, so we'll see. The demand will be here.

Publix is way better than Kroger imo. Whole Foods & Fresh Market are kinda overrated & overpriced. People around me seem to rave about Trader Joe's- don't know never been. I pretty much just go to Publix.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 11, 2021, 03:37:01 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 11, 2021, 10:31:47 AM

I'm happy for y'all in Florida... People keep moving in, and pretty soon you'll have as many businesses and options as I've got in California!

Nah, we'll have more eventually as more and more people flee shithole California.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-to-move-headquarters-to-austin-texas-musk-says-11633646229

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 11, 2021, 03:40:42 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/bZ3oFUi.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 11, 2021, 03:41:28 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/Uqtnetg.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 11, 2021, 03:50:11 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 11, 2021, 01:05:41 PM

I question the use of the words so many

Data supports the number of breakthrough cases being around .5% of those vaccinated and of those only about .9% have required hospitalization and less then 1% have died

in short the vaccine is effective against the new strains at a small decrease in overall protection

There are so many breakthrough cases because the vaccine is a "leaky" vaccine. The vaccine does not stop the virus in its tracks and stop transmission & infection. Studies in Israel- a country which has an insanely high rate of vaccination (something like 90+% of all it's people are fully vaccinated) - have shown that the vaccines are 39% effective at stopping transmission & infection. Not even 40%. Less than flip a coin and get infected chance. 

And people who have been vaccinated and get infected shed viral particles at same levels as those who are unvaccinated.

In short how effective is a vaccine if it doesn't actually stop transmission & infection? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 11, 2021, 03:57:29 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 11, 2021, 03:36:00 PM

Publix is way better than Kroger imo. Whole Foods & Fresh Market are kinda overrated & overpriced. People around me seem to rave about Trader Joe's- don't know never been. I pretty much just go to Publix.

Trader Joe’s is a place where you can get an usual snack foods and maybe good fresh meat. But it’s a little overpriced. I generally like them for snacks, and some people really like their premade salads.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Thumper on October 11, 2021, 03:59:08 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 11, 2021, 02:52:30 PM

(https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/fastest-trains-in-the-world-chart.jpg)

#3 seems scary to me.  I don't want to go 300+ mph on something deliberately named POS.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 11, 2021, 04:00:00 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 11, 2021, 03:37:01 PM

Nah, we'll have more eventually as more and more people flee shithole California.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-to-move-headquarters-to-austin-texas-musk-says-11633646229

I mean, there is a lot of shit hole Florida to fill out. You’ve told us that yourself.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 11, 2021, 04:00:15 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 11, 2021, 01:51:49 PM

Hispanic folk are pretty defensive of Columbus.

Seems like he would be the poster boy for for the woke White Left. Came to America uninvited from a Spanish speaking country, educated by Islamic Universities, and elevated above the White guy that actually discovered America in Erik the Red.

Their Columbus rage is actually pretty comical, when you think about it.

Are italians white or not? Just asking. 

And Amerigo Vespucci- another Italian person- actually discovered America- of which the name America actually comes from. 

Erik the Red & Columbus had no idea they were even in a new continent that was unknown to Europeans.

And I don't get the whole "Cancel Columbus" - newsflash it was like 500+ years ago. Different world. These same people don't think Aztecs or whatever native tribe you want to talk about wiped out entire other tribes of natives, took entire populations as slaves, practiced human sacrifices and cannibalism? Cause uh, they did. 

It was uh....a different time period with different laws, cultures, social norms- different everything.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 11, 2021, 04:01:05 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 11, 2021, 04:00:00 PM

I mean, there is a lot of shit hole Florida to fill out. You’ve told us that yourself.

I'm just playing LOL. And I mean, everywhere is a shithole when you think about.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2021, 04:04:21 PM

Everywhere except the coasts of Florida. Not a big Tampa fan, but the beaches up there are pretty damn nice (St. Pete and Clearwater).

Never been to Jax. Can't comment on that city.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 11, 2021, 04:11:49 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 11, 2021, 04:00:15 PM

Are italians white or not? Just asking.

And Amerigo Vespucci- another Italian person- actually discovered America- of which the name America actually comes from.

Erik the Red & Columbus had no idea they were even in a new continent that was unknown to Europeans.

And I don't get the whole "Cancel Columbus" - newsflash it was like 500+ years ago. Different world. These same people don't think Aztecs or whatever native tribe you want to talk about wiped out entire other tribes of natives, took entire populations as slaves, practiced human sacrifices and cannibalism? Cause uh, they did.

It was uh....a different time period with different laws, cultures, social norms- different everything.

They are not as White as Vikings obviously, so they should be quite a bit farther up the woke White Liberal's pecking order. 

They are still European though, so maybe that's the rub. I dunno. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 11, 2021, 04:21:22 PM

Jacksonville beaches are nice north and south of Jax, but not great where it's all built up.  The brown water seems to be a turn-off and it's chilly compared to the rest of FL.  But it's warmer than the Pacific, that's for damn sure.
The sea turtle nests are cool, if you're into that.  

I have fond memories of living in Jax from '89-'94.  But every time I go back, more and more of my memories are paved over or replaced.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2021, 04:24:06 PM

I need to get up there sometime. Maybe for a WLOCP. That would be fun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 11, 2021, 04:28:49 PM

Iowa State Fair

Today we're celebrating World Egg Day! 🥚💙
Did you know the Iowa Egg Council handed out 126,566 eggs on a stick at the Fair this year? We might be a little biased, but on-a-stick is the ultimate way to consume this savory treat.
Have an egg-cellent Friday! #WorldEggDay


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/244680085_10159152662960590_341899775316543624_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=uUqNqSDaUdAAX84ZmKo&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=c75bcc55a2dfa8be3e8388686a6306fc&oe=6168BDA1)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 11, 2021, 04:30:57 PM

(https://c.tenor.com/mD2_oG7jS9MAAAAd/the-simpsons-homer-simpson.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 11, 2021, 04:38:50 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 11, 2021, 01:32:48 PM

Yeah, that's not really accurate.

• The vaccine protects against all current variants. Delta is much more transmissible, which is why you're seeing breakthrough infections, not because the vaccine doesn't respond to Delta.
• Typical antibody persistence seems to be somewhere in the 6+ month range for the vaccine. It definitely wanes, but not typically in the 2 month window.
• B- and T-cell immunity memory doesn't mean your body will keep producing antibodies long-term. Even in the case of natural infection, your antibodies will wane over time.
• The vaccine has been shown to produce B- and T-cell immunity memory as well. It is not different from natural infection in that case.
• Where B- and T-cell immunity comes into play is not in preventing infection, but in preventing serious illness. There is data that natural infection confers stronger immunity from future infection than the vaccine, as the vaccine wanes. However the vaccine has still been shown to be >90% effective at preventing hospitalization at that 6 month timeframe, which is important.

There is also strong evidence that the immunity conferred by natural infection PLUS the vaccine (and maybe only one shot, not requiring too) is better than either natural infection or the vaccine individually. So there is benefit to anyone who has the natural infection from getting the shot. How much that matters for a young and otherwise healthy individual? I don't have a quantification for that.

That's fine. I've read differently and if I can come across it again, I will share it. However, I still will NOT be getting the vaccine as I have natural immunity. Everyone else can do as they see fit, that is their decision to make. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 11, 2021, 05:02:20 PM

https://youtu.be/j_uOOGWMZfY

You have seen these before.  This is a good one. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 11, 2021, 06:07:43 PM

I am going to try and get the booster tomorrow. We'll see how that goes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 11, 2021, 06:59:46 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 11, 2021, 04:38:50 PM

That's fine. I've read differently and if I can come across it again, I will share it. However, I still will NOT be getting the vaccine as I have natural immunity. Everyone else can do as they see fit, that is their decision to make.

I wish you the best with your decision. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 11, 2021, 07:34:10 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2021, 04:04:21 PM

Everywhere except the coasts of Florida. Not a big Tampa fan, but the beaches up there are pretty damn nice (St. Pete and Clearwater).

Never been to Jax. Can't comment on that city.

Home of Lynrd Skynrd,Molly Hatchett and 38 Special can't be too bad

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 11, 2021, 07:50:54 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/245483939_10158442604976220_6862814577940432814_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=k6Z9l2AxhjUAX8beX0p&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=1b1e68aa09ab317878851502be2f373e&oe=61695C2A)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 11, 2021, 07:58:59 PM

Well Matt Amodio just got beat on Jeopardy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 12, 2021, 06:50:07 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 11, 2021, 07:50:54 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/245483939_10158442604976220_6862814577940432814_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=k6Z9l2AxhjUAX8beX0p&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=1b1e68aa09ab317878851502be2f373e&oe=61695C2A)

It was safe last year, depending on the neighborhood, of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 12, 2021, 11:10:39 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 07, 2021, 11:20:55 AM

The problem is calling it Mexican food. It's fast food and must be compared to fast food. The steak breakfast crunchwrap is hands down the best fast food breakfast item out there.

I have a long break between school dropoffs on Tuesday, so I tried this.

You're wrong.

It's not even the best breakfast item on their menu. I also tried the grande toasted breakfast burrito and that was better than the crunch wrap. 

You're not allowed to give food advice here any more. :96:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 12, 2021, 11:18:10 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 12, 2021, 11:10:39 AM

I have a long break between school dropoffs on Tuesday, so I tried this.

You're wrong.

It's not even the best breakfast item on their menu. I also tried the grande toasted breakfast burrito and that was better than the crunch wrap.

You're not allowed to give food advice here any more. :96:

Isn't that essentially the same thing, just in a different shape? The local one here hasn't started up breakfast again so I can't be sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 12, 2021, 12:33:52 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 12, 2021, 11:18:10 AM

Isn't that essentially the same thing, just in a different shape? The local one here hasn't started up breakfast again so I can't be sure.

Fairly similar, except that the burrito doesn't use a hash brown inside (just roasted potatoes), uses tomatoes instead of "creamy jalapeno sauce", and the proportions are different--I think there's a higher filling:tortilla ratio on the burrito.

The crunchwrap seemed to eat dry, whereas the burrito has more flavor and moisture. And I couldn't even taste the creamy jalapeno sauce at all. I would not order again.

The burrito wasn't bad for a fast food breakfast burrito--I'll give it that. A lot better than the travesty McD's calls a breakfast burrito. But I have such an embarrassment of riches to get amazing breakfast burritos around here (some that are even drive thru) that I still wouldn't be likely to buy one again. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 12, 2021, 12:58:18 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 12, 2021, 12:33:52 PM

Fairly similar, except that the burrito doesn't use a hash brown inside (just roasted potatoes), uses tomatoes instead of "creamy jalapeno sauce", and the proportions are different--I think there's a higher filling:tortilla ratio on the burrito.

The crunchwrap seemed to eat dry, whereas the burrito has more flavor and moisture. And I couldn't even taste the creamy jalapeno sauce at all. I would not order again.

The burrito wasn't bad for a fast food breakfast burrito--I'll give it that. A lot better than the travesty McD's calls a breakfast burrito. But I have such an embarrassment of riches to get amazing breakfast burritos around here (some that are even drive thru) that I still wouldn't be likely to buy one again.

Well - you do have to douse it in hot sauce. In any event, the fast food breakfast options for the major chains are pretty bleak. I can do a sausage biscuit from McDonalds, but it's under protest.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 12, 2021, 01:29:21 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 12, 2021, 12:58:18 PM

Well - you do have to douse it in hot sauce. In any event, the fast food breakfast options for the major chains are pretty bleak. I can do a sausage biscuit from McDonalds, but it's under protest.

I think the sausage mcmuffin w/ egg is pretty solid as a breakfast item, and the McD's hash browns are consistently good. I'm not into the mcgriddles, but people who like a little sweetness enjoy those.

I count Dunkin as part of "fast food" because most of them around here have drive thru, and their croissant breakfast sandwiches are good.

Carl's Jr is pretty good too. 

I've tried Wendy's once, and didn't like it. Everyone goes nuts over Chick fil A chicken biscuit, but I just don't get it. I don't really eat burger king, so I can't speak on theirs. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 12, 2021, 01:31:47 PM

BK threw in the towel when they got rid of their cheese infused hash browns. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 12, 2021, 01:33:19 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 12, 2021, 01:29:21 PM

I think the sausage mcmuffin w/ egg is pretty solid as a breakfast item, and the McD's hash browns are consistently good. I'm not into the mcgriddles, but people who like a little sweetness enjoy those.

I count Dunkin as part of "fast food" because most of them around here have drive thru, and their croissant breakfast sandwiches are good.

Carl's Jr is pretty good too.

I've tried Wendy's once, and didn't like it. Everyone goes nuts over Chick fil A chicken biscuit, but I just don't get it. I don't really eat burger king, so I can't speak on theirs.

Chick fil A spicy chicken biscuit is solid business.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 12, 2021, 01:38:02 PM

Quote from: utee94 on October 12, 2021, 01:33:19 PM

Chick fil A spicy chicken biscuit is solid business.

I have to think that's what I ordered, because I always order spicy if there's an option lol. I still found it underwhelming.

I should point out that I don't eat biscuits unless they're slathered in sausage gravy. So a biscuit-based sandwich isn't typically my thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 12, 2021, 01:41:05 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 11, 2021, 06:59:46 PM

I wish you the best with your decision.

I survived it once. My guess is that I will be fine going forward. But thanks for the well wishes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 12, 2021, 09:04:26 PM

I like the croissandwich from BK for a fast-food breakfast.  
My usual breakfast is on the way to work - McDonalds - 2 sausage mcmuffins w/ no egg.  Low-carb, as I only eat half of each muffin.  

Fast-food egg creeps me out.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 12, 2021, 10:22:08 PM

Fast-food  creeps me out. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 13, 2021, 09:17:46 AM

You need steaming black coffee to kill anything that might be in it.Standing up over the sink for proper consumtion/digestion is the preferred MO

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 13, 2021, 09:29:30 AM

drive thrus are king, cause then you can toss the crap out the window after a nasty bite or two

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 13, 2021, 09:31:18 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 12, 2021, 09:04:26 PM

I like the croissandwich from BK for a fast-food breakfast. 
My usual breakfast is on the way to work - McDonalds - 2 sausage mcmuffins w/ no egg.  Low-carb, as I only eat half of each muffin. 

Fast-food egg creeps me out. 

That is the only thing I would eat from Mc'D for breakfast, and I do the same as you do (on the rare occasions I do it - generally in airports). I have always liked Big Mac, so I'll eat that in the airports.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 13, 2021, 09:38:10 AM

The ground here is covered with snow.  Breckinridge, CO.

27F

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 13, 2021, 09:41:31 AM

ate a bunch, (too many) Big Macs in high school.

Worked for a year at a full service gas station as shift manager that was located next to the MacDonalds.  Many of my high school friends worked there.  The gas station / McDonalds was a hot spot on "the loup" Friday and Saturday night.

Sold the cheapest cigarettes in the city and expensive beer.

Good Times!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 13, 2021, 09:42:34 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 13, 2021, 09:38:10 AM

The ground here is covered with snow.  Breckinridge, CO.

27F

told my daughter this, her wedding is planned for Oct 15th 2022 in Silverthorne

she seemed somewhat surprised

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 13, 2021, 09:58:10 AM

high of 62 expected here today, low 40s over night, got some rain very early this morning

furnace/air conditioner hasn't run in a couple weeks

electric bill was $62.90 for last month - no natural gas or propane

October was always my fav month of the year

weather, football, baseball, hunting and fishing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 13, 2021, 10:04:59 AM

Quote

high of 62 expected here today, low 40s over night, got some rain very early this morning

The perfect weather. Finally supposed to start hitting some of that this weekend. I need to get some firewood.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 13, 2021, 10:10:07 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/96MVKEC.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 13, 2021, 10:18:20 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 13, 2021, 09:58:10 AM

high of 62 expected here today, low 40s over night, got some rain very early this morning

furnace/air conditioner hasn't run in a couple weeks

electric bill was $62.90 for last month - no natural gas or propane

October was always my fav month of the year

weather, football, baseball, hunting and fishing

got my heating system inspected last Monday

result upstairs heating unit good

downstairs heating unit has to be replaced (17 years old)

so after spending $4,400 the new one will be installed tomorrow

the joys of home ownership

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 13, 2021, 10:19:57 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 13, 2021, 09:58:10 AM

high of 62 expected here today, low 40s over night, got some rain very early this morning

furnace/air conditioner hasn't run in a couple weeks

electric bill was $62.90 for last month - no natural gas or propane

October was always my fav month of the year

weather, football, baseball, hunting and fishing

Oddly my forecast is nearly identical to this. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 13, 2021, 10:22:31 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 13, 2021, 09:42:34 AM

told my daughter this, her wedding is planned for Oct 15th 2022 in Silverthorne

she seemed somewhat surprised

Down to 25 F now, no snow falling.  The street behind us is covered with about an inch.  Higher elevations have had snow for a while of course.  Altitude has an impact on our breathing.  Duh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 13, 2021, 10:29:43 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 13, 2021, 09:29:30 AM

drive thrus are king, cause then you can toss the crap out the window after a nasty bite or two

One time I pulled into a McD's early on a saturday going to work and pressed for time I got a couple of McMuffin's and parked in the lot to eat. So some peaked looking cat is about and stops at my car and gives me the "have mercy kind sir look". It seemed a little bit leary so i halved a McMuffin and set it about 5 ft away and got back into the car. The smug shit sniffs it,sticks its nose/tail in the air and saunters proudly away - I would have blasted it with a water balloon if I could have

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 13, 2021, 10:32:15 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 13, 2021, 10:10:07 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/96MVKEC.png)

too much humidity and heat

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 13, 2021, 10:36:57 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 13, 2021, 09:42:34 AM

told my daughter this, her wedding is planned for Oct 15th 2022 in Silverthorne

she seemed somewhat surprised

Gonna be any Shark Water/Runza's on the bill of fare?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 13, 2021, 10:47:01 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 13, 2021, 10:32:15 AM

too much humidity and heat

Love it. Acclimated.


Chicago is gonna be cold in November and Christmas. Need to buy some clothing to wear up there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 13, 2021, 10:49:58 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 13, 2021, 10:47:01 AM

Love it. Acclimated.


Chicago is gonna be cold in November and Christmas. Need to buy some clothing to wear up there.

(https://c.tenor.com/9YjSwJ1AEBcAAAAM/gag.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 13, 2021, 10:52:28 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 13, 2021, 10:47:01 AM

Love it. Acclimated.


Chicago is gonna be cold in November and Christmas. Need to buy some clothing to wear up there.

oh, I'll be jealous after Christmas for sure.  And think it would be perfect weather.

what happened to your Chicago clothing???  all burned in the looting?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 13, 2021, 10:54:56 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 13, 2021, 10:52:28 AM

oh, I'll be jealous after Christmas for sure.  And think it would be perfect weather.

what happened to your Chicago clothing???  all burned in the looting?

Got rid of it all. Nothing fit anymore. Too big.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 13, 2021, 11:03:29 AM

needed new Badger gear anyway

good for you

my Sharkwater shorts fit better than ever this fall

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on October 13, 2021, 11:14:13 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 13, 2021, 11:03:29 AM

needed new Badger gear anyway

good for you

my Sharkwater shorts fit better than ever this fall

Just stay away from the P Chryst line. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 13, 2021, 11:16:36 AM

Quote from: MarqHusker on October 13, 2021, 11:14:13 AM

Just stay away from the P Chryst line.

Shopko?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 13, 2021, 12:00:46 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on October 13, 2021, 11:14:13 AM

Just stay away from the P Chryst line.

you like the New Tom Osborne Clothing Line – The Two55 Collection??
I'm not compelled to buy anything, but old men don't buy new clothes often

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 13, 2021, 01:18:36 PM

We've reached the part of the year where we'll get sub-50 temps early in the morning, and then perfect sunny mid-70s in the middle of the afternoon. 

Which means that every person seeing me walk the dog early in the morning, in gym shorts and a t-shirt, has to ask me "aren't you cold?"

No, jackass, I grew up in Chicago. 48 degrees is beautiful dog-walking weather. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 13, 2021, 01:42:57 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 13, 2021, 10:54:56 AM

Got rid of it all. Nothing fit anymore. Too big.

Well that's incentive for you,not only for keeping fit but who the hell wants to go clothes shopping? I suppose you could let the MRS. pick stuff out because that always worx,right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 13, 2021, 01:56:01 PM

Nah. I do it myself. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 13, 2021, 09:21:17 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 13, 2021, 09:41:31 AM

ate a bunch, (too many) Big Macs in high school.

Worked for a year at a full service gas station as shift manager that was located next to the MacDonalds.  Many of my high school friends worked there.  The gas station / McDonalds was a hot spot on "the loup" Friday and Saturday night.

Sold the cheapest cigarettes in the city and expensive beer.

Good Times!!!

I may have shared this before...
we had a 330 lb FR lineman on the football team.  He sucked, but could run, so everybody's thinking, "hey, he could be really good eventually."
Dude gets a job at Hardees (Carl's Jr).  
And that was that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 13, 2021, 11:26:51 PM

Dinner at Hearthstone worth a trip

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 14, 2021, 09:43:42 AM

I saw Alton Brown's Beyond the Eats show last night at the State Theatre in Minneapolis. An acquaintance produced tickets, and my wife and I both went not having a clue what to expect. We both thoroughly enjoyed it. Would recommend.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 14, 2021, 10:40:38 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on October 14, 2021, 09:43:42 AM

I saw Alton Brown's Beyond the Eats show last night at the State Theatre in Minneapolis. An acquaintance produced tickets, and my wife and I both went not having a clue what to expect. We both thoroughly enjoyed it. Would recommend.

How was his demeanor? 

I always liked Alton, and he was the "goofy nerd" guy when his show Good Eats was on. But it seems like he's taken the role of "bad boy" on Food Network in recent years, with his Cutthroat Kitchen, his "maniacal baskets" episodes of Chopped, and being a real ass the season he co-hosted Worst Cooks in America. I then saw some of his "Quarantine Quitchen" stuff on YouTube with his wife, and it didn't exactly make his personality seem that much more warm and fuzzy. 

I wonder how he comes across in this sort of environment...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 14, 2021, 01:07:49 PM

He came across as much more the goofy nerd than jackass. One segment dealt with Worst Cooks head-on, and he admitted that he was the heel of the show and did so at the behest of the Food Network.

There were a few things in the show that were clearly opening night bugs they hadn't worked out yet, this was the first show of the tour.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 14, 2021, 02:39:21 PM

He was very teacher-y on his old show.  He'd tell you where something originated and why it's used.  Very informative.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 14, 2021, 04:32:52 PM

Yep. His show is why I got into homebrewing.

I saw his episode on homebrewing in 2005. My initial response "hell, I could do that." It quickly became "I should REALLY do that." In early 2006 I brewed my first batch. 

I really liked Good Eats. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 15, 2021, 06:04:41 PM

Just finally got around to doing TSA precheck. 

I think it took longer to find parking at the airport than it did for the process lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 15, 2021, 07:46:21 PM

Grilled ribeye for dinner tonight. Didn't quite realize that prime at Costco is going for $30/lb right now. Yikes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 15, 2021, 08:31:04 PM

bought 6 real nice ribeyes on a charitable auction a week ago for $150.  local feedlot owned by a friend of mine

I don't have a pic of the marbling before grilling, but it was close to prime, not quite

Last night with my daughter in my kitchen .......... Very good 

(https://i.imgur.com/V4NgTlF.jpg)

 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 15, 2021, 08:55:55 PM

Clemson up at the half over the Cuse by 7

not impressive at all

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 15, 2021, 10:19:10 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 15, 2021, 07:46:21 PM

Grilled ribeye for dinner tonight. Didn't quite realize that prime at Costco is going for $30/lb right now. Yikes.

:banghead:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 15, 2021, 10:22:38 PM

mine were a bit less than $25/lb

cause I also got a shaker of seasoning

They were selling the 6 steaks for $115 whick would be about $19/lb

but, not quite prime

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 15, 2021, 10:37:20 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 15, 2021, 06:04:41 PM

Just finally got around to doing TSA precheck.

I think it took longer to find parking at the airport than it did for the process lol.

The best feeling. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 15, 2021, 10:40:07 PM

well, that sucked.  4th and 1, left it to the kicker for a season long FG for the tie

Clemson, not impressive

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 16, 2021, 08:00:31 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 15, 2021, 07:46:21 PM

Grilled ribeye for dinner tonight. Didn't quite realize that prime at Costco is going for $30/lb right now. Yikes.

Everything in the grocery store is more expensive now, and some things are not even available, or running short.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 16, 2021, 08:11:17 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 16, 2021, 08:00:31 AM

Everything in the grocery store is more expensive now, and some things are not even available, or running short.

Some of the pay practices companies have had are getting exposed in a major way. My wife works as a nurse at an ER, and with labor shortages they suddenly offer %150 percent increases on pay to pick up shifts. Doesn't help the morale if you were already scheduled to work.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 16, 2021, 08:22:57 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 16, 2021, 08:11:17 AM

Some of the pay practices companies have had are getting exposed in a major way. My wife works as a nurse at an ER, and with labor shortages they suddenly offer %150 percent increases on pay to pick up shifts. Doesn't help the morale if you were already scheduled to work.

I’m interested in how that works. Like, it’s that time over normal working hours? For part timers? 

Like, how does one lose out by already being scheduled?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 16, 2021, 08:42:39 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 16, 2021, 08:22:57 AM

I’m interested in how that works. Like, it’s that time over normal working hours? For part timers?

Like, how does one lose out by already being scheduled?

So if she is already scheduled, she just gets her base pay and a penalty if she doesn't show up. But if she picks up a shift, she gets her base pay plus some random amount, which lately is about 1.5 times what her base pay. So most nurses eventually quit their normal shifts and just pick up. But she can't do that until March

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 16, 2021, 09:32:36 AM

(https://twitter.com/AztecFB)
San Diego State Football

There's only one active coach to start 6-0 with three different FBS programs. And his name is Brady Hoke.

(https://i.imgur.com/dRvnZgL.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 16, 2021, 09:50:45 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 16, 2021, 08:42:39 AM

So if she is already scheduled, she just gets her base pay and a penalty if she doesn't show up. But if she picks up a shift, she gets her base pay plus some random amount, which lately is about 1.5 times what her base pay. So most nurses eventually quit their normal shifts and just pick up. But she can't do that until March

Oh, that’s a super weird inefficiency. Bad design. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 16, 2021, 10:15:59 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 16, 2021, 08:11:17 AM

Some of the pay practices companies have had are getting exposed in a major way. My wife works as a nurse at an ER, and with labor shortages they suddenly offer %150 percent increases on pay to pick up shifts. Doesn't help the morale if you were already scheduled to work.

My wife just got a 10% raise. It was driven primarily by her office's medical assistant, who was woefully underpaid... She went to bat for her employee and basically told her doctors that it wasn't about her own pay, but that if they lost her MA it would be crippling to the office and they'd end up having to hire and train someone at much higher pay than the current MA was making anyway.  The doctors gave the MA about an 18% raise and gave my wife a raise too. So that was nice. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on October 16, 2021, 11:19:43 AM

When I was hourly we got paid OT for anything outside our schedule. We worked a rotating 36 and 48 hour work week. So in the first week if you worked a 4th 12 hour day you would get 36 hours of regular pay and 12 hours of OT 1.5. 

Any day that was 7th consecutive was 2x, even if it was your scheduled day. Made some pretty nice checks over the years. 


Now I’m straight salary. It’s interesting how your attitude changes. I make less money but I’m far happier and have much more time. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 17, 2021, 08:43:24 AM

"Truth, Justice and the American Way."

Will now be

"Truth, Justice, and a better tomorrow."


AND

Superman is now a bi-sexual.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 17, 2021, 09:16:26 AM

They made Supergirl's sister a lesbian in the TV show.  That doesn't bother me, totally okay with it, other than they then forced a lot of awkward, contrived storylines into a comic book show in order to serve their agenda rather than entertain the audience.

The ensuing bad writing and awkward, clunky direction are why my family and I stopped watching the show, not because a hot chick decided to kiss other women.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 17, 2021, 09:24:34 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 17, 2021, 08:43:24 AM

"Truth, Justice and the American Way."

Will now be

"Truth, Justice, and a better tomorrow."


AND

Superman is now a bi-sexual.

Our modern habit of marketing via trolling is kinda weird.

Of course, certain comic book storylines are spiralingly insane and incoherent anyway. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 17, 2021, 09:38:31 AM

My question is why do this? It seems unnecessary. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 17, 2021, 09:40:52 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 17, 2021, 09:38:31 AM

My question is why do this? It seems unnecessary.

They have been writing Superman comics since 1938. Tough to keep writing the same story. Also hard to sell Superman comics in other countries if all he cares about is America.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 17, 2021, 09:56:26 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 17, 2021, 09:40:52 AM

They have been writing Superman comics since 1938. Tough to keep writing the same story. Also hard to sell Superman comics in other countries if all he cares about is America.

All true.

But also, younger generations love to tear down the institutions of older generations, whether they're good or bad.  It's nature's way, it's a form of social entropy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 17, 2021, 10:05:05 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 17, 2021, 09:56:26 AM

All true.

But also, younger generations love to tear down the institutions of older generations, whether they're good or bad.  It's nature's way, it's a form of social entropy.

Well sure. America only exists due to the willingness of younger generations to tear down older institutions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 17, 2021, 10:07:56 AM

I always figured Lois Lane for a bit of a beard...

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 17, 2021, 09:40:52 AM

They have been writing Superman comics since 1938. Tough to keep writing the same story. Also hard to sell Superman comics in other countries if all he cares about is America.

Exactly. Same reason soap operas have bizarre and barely plausible storylines. They ran out of the good stuff decades ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 17, 2021, 10:15:39 AM

The year is 1938 and the Great Depression is in full swing. Things are starting to get tense in Europe with the recent annexation of Austria into Germany. Meanwhile in Cleveland, Ohio two young men are about to realize a dream that would bring hope to the American people and publish one of the most iconic characters of all times.

Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster were both born to Jewish immigrants, the Siegel’s from Lithuania and Shuster’s from the Netherlands and Ukraine. In 1931 the two became fast friends at Cleveland’s Glenville High School and ended up creating comics together. At the age of 16, both Siegel and Shuster were already accomplished comic artists. Shuster drew a comic about a character named Jerry the Journalist, and Siegel sold his works under the pseudonym Hugh Langley. Together they tended to work on sci-fi inspired comics or stories inspired by the folk tale of John Henry. They created a story based on these ideas about a villain they called “Superman.”, Superman as a villain didn’t last long, though. The pair created a new hero, also named Superman, who developed into the beloved character we know today.

It was never said aloud, but Joanne Siegel, the model who served as the visual inspiration for the original Lois Lane (and Jerry’s wife), always thought that the death of Siegel’s father had a lot to do with the creation of Superman. Siegel’s father died of a heart attack in 1932 during a robbery at the family clothing store. It is reported the earliest sketches show Superman saving a man at gunpoint that looked a lot like his father.

In the end Siegel and Shuster sold the rights to everything connected to Superman to Action Comics for a total of $130.

The whole story
https://www.ohiohistory.org/learn/education/resource-roundup/december-2017/the-creation-of-superman

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 17, 2021, 10:15:52 AM

so you understand why I only watch live sports and Triple D?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 17, 2021, 10:20:25 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 16, 2021, 08:11:17 AM

Some of the pay practices companies have had are getting exposed in a major way. 

Drayage trucking is the most important yet by far the least paid part of the supply chain. To no one's surprise, that is the biggest holdup coming off the West Coast docks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 17, 2021, 10:23:14 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 17, 2021, 10:05:05 AM

Well sure. America only exists due to the willingness of younger generations to tear down older institutions.

"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
George Santayana

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 17, 2021, 12:40:09 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 17, 2021, 09:38:31 AM

My question is why do this? It seems unnecessary.

Why not?
None of it is necessary.  It's a fucking comic book.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 17, 2021, 12:41:57 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 17, 2021, 10:15:39 AM

In the end Siegel and Shuster sold the rights to everything connected to Superman to Action Comics for a total of $130.

The whole story
https://www.ohiohistory.org/learn/education/resource-roundup/december-2017/the-creation-of-superman

Although, they have to be credited with creating him in any and all Superman incarnations - movies, shows, cartoons...forever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 17, 2021, 12:48:51 PM

Quote from: utee94 on October 17, 2021, 09:16:26 AM

They made Supergirl's sister a lesbian in the TV show.  That doesn't bother me, totally okay with it, other than they then forced a lot of awkward, contrived storylines into a comic book show in order to serve their agenda rather than entertain the audience.

The ensuing bad writing and awkward, clunky direction are why my family and I stopped watching the show, not because a hot chick decided to kiss other women.

I like this post, because it reveals some things easily glossed over.
.
A - this may entertain a new audience - growth is important, right?
B - the awkward, contrived storylines are very likely being written by straight people who are writing about what they don't know

So it's not a bad idea if it's executed well.  Maybe they should've hired writers to write what they know about.  Maybe everyone should.
.
Loosely-related:  when i watch any kind of romantic movie, I need to be able to see why the main characters are into each other.  For the guy, it's 99% easy, the woman is hot and while she begins the movie insufferable and obnoxious, she dials it back and the red flags go away.  Easy.  
But look at these movies from a woman's POV.....the guy is usually conceited or doofy......always confident, though, no matter his ability....and 99% of the time does something major to screw things up.
Most romantic movies fail at making the man desirable to the woman because...............anyone?......anyone?.........men write everything!!!  We have the same issue with more progressive aspects of shows coming into gear......studios are having middle-aged white guys writing for the roles of bisexual teens.  
.
And we complain that it's awkward. No shit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 17, 2021, 12:49:04 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 17, 2021, 10:07:56 AM

I always figured Lois Lane for a bit of a beard...
Exactly. Same reason soap operas have bizarre and barely plausible storylines. They ran out of the good stuff decades ago.

All the good Superman ideas have already been used, so for the sake of originality they make a character gay? 

Oh yeah, that hasn't been done a million times over already in just the last ten years alone. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 17, 2021, 12:50:43 PM

I love how you guys who haven't picked up a Superman comic book since 1957 are bothered by this.  It's adorable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 17, 2021, 01:07:54 PM

How many years was the tv series Gunsmoke on?

They must have had just about every kind of plot there was.

But one thing they never did was turn Matt Dillon gay

Why not?

I mean seeing him and Festus kiss would have made headlines

Probably would still be on the tube

maybe Kitty turns out to be transgender

the possibilities are limitless

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 17, 2021, 01:37:11 PM

what's next? Batman a Transgender? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 17, 2021, 02:27:17 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 17, 2021, 01:37:11 PM

what's next? Batman a Transgender?

so was Batgirl or woman or whatever the hell she is called before the show was cancelled

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 17, 2021, 02:31:01 PM

The first actress was merely transgender, but that wasn't quite woke enough, so then they replaced her with a black lesbian.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 17, 2021, 02:37:53 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 17, 2021, 12:48:51 PM

I like this post, because it reveals some things easily glossed over.
.
A - this may entertain a new audience - growth is important, right?
B - the awkward, contrived storylines are very likely being written by straight people who are writing about what they don't know

So it's not a bad idea if it's executed well.  Maybe they should've hired writers to write what they know about.  Maybe everyone should.
.
Loosely-related:  when i watch any kind of romantic movie, I need to be able to see why the main characters are into each other.  For the guy, it's 99% easy, the woman is hot and while she begins the movie insufferable and obnoxious, she dials it back and the red flags go away.  Easy. 
But look at these movies from a woman's POV.....the guy is usually conceited or doofy......always confident, though, no matter his ability....and 99% of the time does something major to screw things up.
Most romantic movies fail at making the man desirable to the woman because...............anyone?......anyone?.........men write everything!!!  We have the same issue with more progressive aspects of shows coming into gear......studios are having middle-aged white guys writing for the roles of bisexual teens. 
.
And we complain that it's awkward. No shit.

I agree with you almost across the board.  It's potentially awkward and clunky because it's being written by people that don't know how to write it. But it's also potentially awkward and clunky because it's being unnecessarily shoe-horned into  a vehicle that doesn't require it.  This happens all the time in TV shows and movies, with any kind of agenda, not just controversial ones.  Once an agenda is being driven, the writing loses its authenticity-- by definition.  It's impossible to be authentic, and also overtly push an agenda.  These are two entirely different writing styles.  This is basic screenplay writing 101 stuff here.  And I know, because I took basic screenplay writing 101.

I will also counter your point A with the fact that the show is being canceled because it lost its original audience, and didn't develop a new one.  The proof is in the pudding.  It failed to grow or expand anything.  It just became awkward and cringy.  Even my 14 yo daughter who has a couple of very close LGBTQ+ friends, and has even marched several times in support of them, was turned off by how contrived and unnecessary the extraneous storylines were.  We started watching that show together, because I'm always in support of her seeing strong female characters in TV/movies/books.  But this, was not that.  And it quickly set off her bullshit meter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 17, 2021, 02:55:08 PM

It's possible the show was on its last legs anyway and this was a hail mary.  

Often people up the ladder dictate what to do and tell people down the ladder to just get it done.  Have any of those types of ideas/dictations ever been a good idea? lol

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 17, 2021, 03:09:35 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 17, 2021, 02:55:08 PM

It's possible the show was on its last legs anyway and this was a hail mary. 

Often people up the ladder dictate what to do and tell people down the ladder to just get it done.  Have any of those types of ideas/dictations ever been a good idea? lol

almost never. 

the best movies/shows are typically the ones where the studio execs give the creators free reign and don't interfere. 

Just off the top of my head but shows like It's Always Sunny, Curb, GoT, Sopranos - all masterpieces and all shows where the studio execs left the creators the hell alone and let them do whatever they wanted. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 17, 2021, 03:11:47 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 17, 2021, 09:38:31 AM

My question is why do this? It seems unnecessary.

I could imagine part of it has to do with a general level of disinterest in the character and desire to change things up. Comics have done weird things since forever, and this is a part of that.

Also, it's just marketing by being transgressive. You, my friend, would not have thought a lick about Superman unless something happened to it that felt transgressive. Basically, the only reason you're thinking about it at all is because the decision bothers a certain part of your outlook.

And as a result you're sharing it will us and talking about it. Basically, by doing something that offends your sensibilities, they build word of mouth.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 17, 2021, 03:13:52 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 17, 2021, 01:07:54 PM

How many years was the tv series Gunsmoke on?

They must have had just about every kind of plot there was.

But one thing they never did was turn Matt Dillon gay

Why not?

I mean seeing him and Festus kiss would have made headlines

Probably would still be on the tube

maybe Kitty turns out to be transgender

the possibilities are limitless

11 years

Every kind of plot? There are a lot of kinds of plots. Did they make the main guy do grotesque things? Now that woulda been wild. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 17, 2021, 03:40:59 PM

Its sad that many shows are ruined because whoever makes the decisions feels the need to tell us how the world is and how they feel it should be

dont preach to the fans

develop a good plot with good actors and tell an interesting story

if I wanted to see two guys kissing Id go to a gay bar

if I wanted to see how racist the country is Id watch CNN

I tune in to escape for awhile the realities of life not to go to a woke siminar

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 17, 2021, 04:00:34 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 17, 2021, 03:40:59 PM

Its sad that many shows are ruined because whoever makes the decisions feels the need to tell us how the world is and how they feel it should be

dont preach to the fans

develop a good plot with good actors and tell an interesting story

if I wanted to see two guys kissing Id go to a gay bar

if I wanted to see how racist the country is Id watch CNN

I tune in to escape for awhile the realities of life not to go to a woke siminar

Ok. So I find this interesting because if you don't want to watch such a show, you can find something else, right? Like, all we have is shows. Endless numbers of shows. And while many want to push boundaries or what not, many don't. 

I mean, shoot. Before this news popped, when was the last time any of us interacted with Superman or Superman content outside the context of having kids or maybe seeing one of those bad DC movies (which were many things, but I don't think that kind of preachy)? If we're gonna escape the realities of life, we can all escape superman content, which we've all basically been doing for years and years. (If anyone is a rabid superman fan, apologies for painting with a broad brush. Also, what was the new superman content actually coming out now?)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 17, 2021, 04:07:20 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 17, 2021, 04:00:34 PM

Ok. So I find this interesting because if you don't want to watch such a show, you can find something else, right? Like, all we have is shows. Endless numbers of shows. And while many want to push boundaries or what not, many don't.

I mean, shoot. Before this news popped, when was the last time any of us interacted with Superman or Superman content outside the context of having kids or maybe seeing one of those bad DC movies (which were many things, but I don't think that kind of preachy)? If we're gonna escape the realities of life, we can all escape superman content, which we've all basically been doing for years and years. (If anyone is a rabid superman fan, apologies for painting with a broad brush. Also, what was the new superman content actually coming out now?)

Its not just superman

there is a growing trend of this problem across the board

and yes I vote with my viewership 

there are several shows I dont watch anymore because the agenda has changed from trying to provide entertainment to preaching the merits of being gay, how bad the police are and we are the most racist people in the world

and as I said its really sad 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 17, 2021, 04:10:09 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 17, 2021, 04:07:20 PM

Its not just superman

there is a growing trend of this problem across the board

and yes I vote with my viewership

there are several shows I dont watch anymore because the agenda has changed from trying to provide entertainment to preaching the merits of being gay, how bad the police are and we are the most racist people in the world

and as I said its really sad

I watch fewer and fewer shows these day, and they're getting more esoteric. Which ones have made that turn?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 17, 2021, 04:22:04 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 17, 2021, 04:10:09 PM

I watch fewer and fewer shows these day, and they're getting more esoteric. Which ones have made that turn?

Most any doctor show

Greys Anatomy

Chicago Med

New Amsterdam

Station 19

9-1-1

Show that dont have this problem

NCIS

Bull

Chicago Fire

Chicago PD

Magnum PI

FBI

Blue Bloods

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 17, 2021, 04:54:13 PM

(https://i.redd.it/v0jkskr04nt71.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 17, 2021, 04:55:03 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 17, 2021, 03:13:52 PM

11 years

Every kind of plot? There are a lot of kinds of plots. Did they make the main guy do grotesque things? Now that woulda been wild.

Well it was the Wild West

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 17, 2021, 04:59:19 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 17, 2021, 04:54:13 PM

(https://i.redd.it/v0jkskr04nt71.jpg)

thats Funny

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 17, 2021, 05:54:53 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 17, 2021, 04:07:20 PM

Its not just superman

there is a growing trend of this problem across the board

and yes I vote with my viewership

there are several shows I dont watch anymore because the agenda has changed from trying to provide entertainment to preaching the merits of being gay, how bad the police are and we are the most racist people in the world

and as I said its really sad

This shows the egocentrism most people are blind to.

The growing trend is a problem for who?  You?  No.  If it's a problem at all, then it's a problem for the producers and actors of the shows, if it fails.  It's not a problem for you in the slightest.

A show's agenda changes, so you stop watching.  Someone else may start watching.  You'll dislike that the show changed in a direction you don't like no matter what it is.  I hate when they change an actor of a character.  I hate when a movie goes off the rails 2/3 of the way through.  Those end up not being great shows or movies (imo).  But there's no tragedy with it.  Just as there is none if the change you don't like is gayness or bisexuality or non-binary humans who identify as a stapler.

There's nothing sad about it.  Grow up.  It's a show/movie/entity you didn't care about until it zigged when you think all things should zag.  Yawn.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 17, 2021, 05:58:11 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 17, 2021, 03:40:59 PM

Its sad that many shows are ruined because whoever makes the decisions feels the need to tell us how the world is and how they feel it should be

dont preach to the fans

develop a good plot with good actors and tell an interesting story

if I wanted to see two guys kissing Id go to a gay bar  kiss a mirror

if I wanted to see how racist the country is Id watch CNN  look in a mirror

I tune in to escape for awhile the realities of life not to go to a woke siminar

ART IMITATES LIFE......THIS IS LITERALLY A PRECISE EXAMPLE OF IT.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 17, 2021, 06:15:14 PM

OAM

I have a right to my opinions and feel free to state them at any time 

and yes it is sad when as a fan you have watched and followed a series for years and all of a sudden the writters chose to abandon all reasonableness and shoot off into never never land

I dont need to be lectured by you on the ability to be a man

I was a man when your parents were wiping the yellow stuff from your butt

so if you dont want to read my opinion then just bugger off and do whatever it is you do when your not on here pissing me off

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 17, 2021, 06:18:43 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 17, 2021, 05:58:11 PM

ART IMITATES LIFE......THIS IS LITERALLY A PRECISE EXAMPLE OF IT. 

how is this an example of art imitating life? LGBTQ2AA+ or whatever the hell they are calling themselves these days is like 4.5% of the entire population.

Of that group, Bi-sexuals make up .7%. This is an astronomically low subsection of the populace.

Nothing about art imitating life- these jerk-offs running the company are just pandering for PR and trying to sell comics. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 17, 2021, 06:31:36 PM

Fro believes in 138 genders, so from his vantage point anyone that deviates even slightly from the most rigid, islamic gender roles imaginable is part of the LGBT community. 

Do you let your wife work outside of the house? Well then you are not a man and she is not a woman, insofar as Fro is concerned. You are both just a couple of gender non-binary individuals involved in an LGBT marriage of some form or another. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 17, 2021, 06:40:25 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 17, 2021, 06:31:36 PM

Fro believes in 138 genders, so from his vantage point anyone that deviates even slightly from the most rigid, islamic gender roles imaginable is part of the LGBT community.

Do you let your wife work outside of the house? Well then you are not a man and she is not a woman, insofar as Fro is concerned. You are both just a couple of gender non-binary individuals involved in an LGBT marriage of some form or another.

genders are real. there are only two of them. there are men and there are women. that's it.

Oh, and women belong in the kitchen. Even though a man can always cook better than a woman.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 17, 2021, 07:39:59 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 17, 2021, 04:22:04 PM

Most any doctor show

Greys Anatomy

Chicago Med

New Amsterdam

Station 19

9-1-1

Show that dont have this problem

NCIS

Bull

Chicago Fire

Chicago PD

Magnum PI

FBI

Blue Bloods

I find this interesting and appreciate you taking seriously my request for the list. Gives me a good sense for what you're watching and a better idea where you're coming from on this, which is good. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 17, 2021, 09:01:23 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 17, 2021, 06:15:14 PM

so if you dont want to read my opinion then just bugger off and do whatever it is you do when your not on here pissing me off

Did you copy/paste this from the reply to your strongly-worded letter to the Superman writers?

:57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 17, 2021, 09:02:45 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 17, 2021, 06:18:43 PM

how is this an example of art imitating life? LGBTQ2AA+ or whatever the hell they are calling themselves these days is like 4.5% of the entire population.

Of that group, Bi-sexuals make up .7%. This is an astronomically low subsection of the populace.

Nothing about art imitating life- these jerk-offs running the company are just pandering for PR and trying to sell comics.

I wasn't aware they were running any companies.
Careful, your post echoes what's been said of the Jews by.....the most evil people our country ever fought.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 17, 2021, 09:04:36 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 17, 2021, 06:31:36 PM

Fro believes in 138 genders, so from his vantage point anyone that deviates even slightly from the most rigid, islamic gender roles imaginable is part of the LGBT community.

Tell me more about what I believe!  You love to do so, despite never actually being correct.  

Why do you only go to the extremes?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 17, 2021, 09:07:14 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 17, 2021, 07:39:59 PM

I find this interesting and appreciate you taking seriously my request for the list. Gives me a good sense for what you're watching and a better idea where you're coming from on this, which is good.

Yeah, he's a slave to the CBS sitcoms, canned laughter and all.  Lazy, safe "entertainment" that confirms his bias.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 17, 2021, 09:21:34 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 17, 2021, 09:07:14 PM

Yeah, he's a slave to the CBS sitcoms, canned laughter and all.  Lazy, safe "entertainment" that confirms his bias.

Interesting considering none of them are sitcoms

What bias do these shows indicate

Not sure what you mean by lazy safe and I doubt you do either

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 17, 2021, 09:23:36 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 17, 2021, 09:01:23 PM

Did you copy/paste this from the reply to your strongly-worded letter to the Superman writers?

:57:

Nope this was special just for you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 17, 2021, 10:00:54 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 17, 2021, 09:21:34 PM

Interesting considering none of them are sitcoms

What bias do these shows indicate

Not sure what you mean by lazy safe and I doubt you do either

Let's just say the easiest people to pander to worship our traditional institutions...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 17, 2021, 10:12:42 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 17, 2021, 10:00:54 PM

Let's just say the easiest people to pander to worship our traditional institutions...

what in hell are you talking about

I ask you specific questions in response to your posts and thats your response?

I quit

not wasting any more time on ya

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 17, 2021, 10:39:01 PM

Nor should you.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 18, 2021, 12:30:24 AM

Here's Why the Chip Shortage is a Bunch of Crap
https://youtu.be/2r6H5sNPvs4

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 18, 2021, 09:07:25 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 17, 2021, 09:02:45 PM

I wasn't aware they were running any companies.
Careful, your post echoes what's been said of the Jews by.....the most evil people our country ever fought.

dude...wtf are you even talking about?

And I was saying that the people running those companies in general- were just pandering to the public. Trying to get good PR for their shitty corporations and make their corporations look enlightened, woke, tolerant, and preaching "acceptance for all people", etc.. It's just PR bullshit- kind of like when Raytheon hypes all their LGBTQ+ bullshit- so free and tolerant and acceptance here!- you're the best- help us build more and more DRONE BOMBS LGBTQ+2AAASDXE PEEPS TO DROP ON POOR GOAT HERDERS IN MIDDLE EAST & PAKISTAN! YAAAAY ACCEPTANCE!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Em6BrzEVkAATmuq?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 18, 2021, 10:14:37 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 18, 2021, 12:30:24 AM

Here's Why the Chip Shortage is a Bunch of Crap
https://youtu.be/2r6H5sNPvs4

Mostly true. 

One point I quibble with is him complaining that automakers "farm it out". Just about EVERYONE farms out chip production. Even Apple, who uses a TON of chips and designs their own, farms out the production. Economies of scale in integrated circuit fabrication make it basically impossible to do it in-house unless you're on the scale of Intel. Even AMD (I believe) farms out their CPU production. 

There's no economic sense in automakers trying to also vertically integrate their chips. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 18, 2021, 10:23:26 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 17, 2021, 03:11:47 PM

Also, it's just marketing by being transgressive. You, my friend, would not have thought a lick about Superman unless something happened to it that felt transgressive. Basically, the only reason you're thinking about it at all is because the decision bothers a certain part of your outlook.

What strikes me as odd is that, in 2021, this isn't really even transgressive. Even the folks on this thread complaining about it aren't really particularly worked up, nor are those who are defending it. It strikes me as play-acting... Just going through the motions because it's "newsworthy". 

It's kinda like the movie Brokeback Mountain. In 2005, a movie about two secretly gay cowboys trying to come to terms with themselves in the middle of a hyper-masculinized environment was transgressive. In 2021, a movie about two gay cowboys would be a buddy comedy or a rom-com. 

You want transgressive? Do this in 1987, in the middle of the AIDS crisis. Make Christopher Reeves kiss a dude on the big screen.

THAT would have been transgressive. This is milquetoast. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 18, 2021, 10:26:51 AM

it's a comic book character, for cryin out loud

someone really cares???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 18, 2021, 10:28:48 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 18, 2021, 10:14:37 AM

Mostly true.

One point I quibble with is him complaining that automakers "farm it out". Just about EVERYONE farms out chip production. Even Apple, who uses a TON of chips and designs their own, farms out the production. Economies of scale in integrated circuit fabrication make it basically impossible to do it in-house unless you're on the scale of Intel. Even AMD (I believe) farms out their CPU production.

There's no economic sense in automakers trying to also vertically integrate their chips.

Apple has insane piles of cash that no other corporation in the world with the exception of Saudi Aramco has and easy access to any lender to get loans in the hundreds of billions of dollars at literally 0% interest rates. They could easily build the infrastructure to manufacture their own chips in the US.

They'd rather not, because hey- why invest in America and pay an American a decent wage to do that and ultimately make less insane margin on an already incredibly overpriced iPhone, iPad, or Mac when you can subcontract it out to FoxConn and have a literal slave make it for you for literal pennies on the dollar in China.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 18, 2021, 10:41:35 AM

I worked at AMD for five years and I can confirm this, with great and probably unnecessary detail.

AMD split into two companies about 15 years ago.  The design side of the house which is still AMD, and the wafer fab sites which are now called "Global Foundries."  They did this because the manufacturing side was sitting idle part of the time, at times when AMD didn't require as many wafer starts.  Idle time in a wafer fab is basically just lighting billions of dollars on fire, so they decided to split off that part of the company, so they could act as a foundry for many other semisconductor design firms.  Originally, AMD products were still supposed to get first priority, but I imagine now, the space goes to whomever pays the most for it.

Intel is the only major IC producer that has its own fabs.

Then there's companies like Samsung that produce some low-level semiconductors and memory using their own fabs, but they're not really doing complex ICs and microcontrollers.

I will take exception with some of what the dude is saying, if he's implying that there's no money to be made on manufacturing old chip designs.  You can think of the semiconductor business as being analogous to the pharmaceutical industry.  Huge initial investments in R&D, plus huge initial investments in setting up a new product manufacturing line in a wafer fab, result in profits being delayed heavily into the lifecycle of a product.  A CPU company like AMD might produce a version of an IC for 2-3 years, and only actually make profit on it, for the last 6 months.

Consequently, the idea that producing "old technology" generates little money, is false.  In fact it's quite profitable to harvest more money on old designs, once all the R&D and setup expense are covered.

Another problem with his assertion, although he never states it explicitly, is that he sort of genericizes the idea of "chips in cars" as if they're all the same and sort of homogenous, and they're all really old.  In a modern car, there are 30-40 different ICs.  Some are quite new and modern, and some are of ancient design.  Some are simple, some are super-complex.

But it's still true that manufacturers eventually want to move on.  There's SOME of that at play here, but it's not THE REASON.

We're seeing the same thing in glass for computer Displays.  Smaller screen sizes just aren't all that profitable for manufacturers, and if you look at the market you're seeing everything under 24" slowly disappear.  We're also competing with TVs, which have gone even larger.  In a couple of years, you won't be able to buy a monitor under 24" in the USA.  China/LATAM and emerging countries are another story of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 18, 2021, 10:54:17 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 18, 2021, 10:28:48 AM

Apple has insane piles of cash that no other corporation in the world with the exception of Saudi Aramco has and easy access to any lender to get loans in the hundreds of billions of dollars at literally 0% interest rates. They could easily build the infrastructure to manufacture their own chips in the US.

They'd rather not, because hey- why invest in America and pay an American a decent wage to do that and ultimately make less insane margin on an already incredibly overpriced iPhone, iPad, or Mac when you can subcontract it out to FoxConn and have a literal slave make it for you for literal pennies on the dollar in China.

Apple could build the infrastructure to manufacture their own chips. But it only makes economic sense if they want to become a major IC manufacturing company. And it would probably take them 4-5 years minimum to be competitive (note that building the actual fab is an 18-24 month process). 94 can probably give better clarity than I on how long, if they actually started from scratch, it would take if they threw limitless resources at becoming a semi manufacturer. 

That would be stupid.

Even Apple can't afford to buy TSMC, who currently has a market cap of $555B. Intel has a market cap of $220B, but their own business isn't the sort of chips Apple uses, and Apple has made it perfectly clear that they'd design their own chips RATHER than use anything from Intel, so I don't think there's a real value there. It also doesn't make sense because Intel sold their NAND business to SKHynix, so it wouldn't get them vertically integrated in NAND either. The same is true of Qualcomm, which has a market cap of $146B. Apple famously designs their own chips rather than buy from Qualcomm, and I don't think Qualcomm has any DRAM or NAND exposure, so it doesn't make sense there. That leaves Micron, with a cap of about $75B. I'm sure Apple could make that deal work. Micron currently doesn't do processors, but it would get Apple vertically integrated in DRAM and NAND and might, over 5+ years, give them a roadmap to do their own processors. 

But all that is a TON of work for a company that's raking in money hand over fist and can buy their chips from companies who have legitimate expertise in their manufacturing, and STILL make insane margin on their incredibly overpriced hardware. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 18, 2021, 11:01:27 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 18, 2021, 10:54:17 AM

Apple could build the infrastructure to manufacture their own chips. But it only makes economic sense if they want to become a major IC manufacturing company. And it would probably take them 4-5 years minimum to be competitive (note that building the actual fab is an 18-24 month process). 94 can probably give better clarity than I on how long, if they actually started from scratch, it would take if they threw limitless resources at becoming a semi manufacturer.

That would be stupid.

Even Apple can't afford to buy TSMC, who currently has a market cap of $555B. Intel has a market cap of $220B, but their own business isn't the sort of chips Apple uses, and Apple has made it perfectly clear that they'd design their own chips RATHER than use anything from Intel, so I don't think there's a real value there. It also doesn't make sense because Intel sold their NAND business to SKHynix, so it wouldn't get them vertically integrated in NAND either. The same is true of Qualcomm, which has a market cap of $146B. Apple famously designs their own chips rather than buy from Qualcomm, and I don't think Qualcomm has any DRAM or NAND exposure, so it doesn't make sense there. That leaves Micron, with a cap of about $75B. I'm sure Apple could make that deal work. Micron currently doesn't do processors, but it would get Apple vertically integrated in DRAM and NAND and might, over 5+ years, give them a roadmap to do their own processors.

But all that is a TON of work for a company that's raking in money hand over fist and can buy their chips from companies who have legitimate expertise in their manufacturing, and STILL make insane margin on their incredibly overpriced hardware.

All correct.  It would make zero sense for Apple to manufacture its own microchips.  That's not their core competency, and they have absolutely no need to develop that as a core competency. 

AMD was actually quite good at manufacturing its own chips, and still they realized it didn't make any sense to do so, and spun off two different companies in Spansion and Global Foundries, as a result. 

Intel probably shouldn't own their wafer fabs either, but there's a lot of inertia there, that's hard to overcome.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 18, 2021, 11:05:26 AM

Heck, we've seen Motorola do the same thing over the past two decades.  Vertical integration in this market space makes no sense at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 18, 2021, 11:09:31 AM

I dont care who owns what or makes what

I just wish more of it was in the US

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on October 18, 2021, 11:26:37 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 18, 2021, 11:01:27 AM

All correct.  It would make zero sense for Apple to manufacture its own microchips.  That's not their core competency, and they have absolutely no need to develop that as a core competency. 

AMD was actually quite good at manufacturing its own chips, and still they realized it didn't make any sense to do so, and spun off two different companies in Spansion and Global Foundries, as a result. 

Intel probably shouldn't own their wafer fabs either, but there's a lot of inertia there, that's hard to overcome.

When I worked for Applied Materials a long time ago in a galaxy far away I remember when we would get an Intel machine in.  Their machines all had to be alike, so no matter if you had a newer model that worked better or had upgraded qualities you had to go back a few generations for an intel machine.  That way any Intel guy could go into any fab anywhere and be familiar with the same machines.  It made sense, but man those old machines were a PITA to test out.  Much more slower etc.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 18, 2021, 12:31:22 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 18, 2021, 11:09:31 AM

I dont care who owns what or makes what

I just wish more of it was in the US

@utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) What is the limitation/drawback to chipmaking within the US? 

I know that many chip fabs don't have as much human labor as other businesses due to the necessity of keeping clean rooms clean. And many of the staff in a chip fab are high-tech workers so it's not like you're going to save a ton of money on labor anyway... Given gross margins for semiconductor manufacturing, it doesn't seem like a market that would be a "race to the bottom" cost-wise...

I have heard that there are significant environmental issues with chip fabs (water/pollution), but I'm not sure how accurate that is. 

Your thoughts? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 18, 2021, 05:24:17 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 18, 2021, 12:31:22 PM

@utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) What is the limitation/drawback to chipmaking within the US?

I know that many chip fabs don't have as much human labor as other businesses due to the necessity of keeping clean rooms clean. And many of the staff in a chip fab are high-tech workers so it's not like you're going to save a ton of money on labor anyway... Given gross margins for semiconductor manufacturing, it doesn't seem like a market that would be a "race to the bottom" cost-wise...

I have heard that there are significant environmental issues with chip fabs (water/pollution), but I'm not sure how accurate that is.

Your thoughts?

Environmental issues ARE a huge part of it.  Semiconductor fabrication is a really, really filthy business.  Just working in ion implant, I was exposed to arsenic, phosphorus, arsine, phosphine, boron trifluoride gas, silicon tetrafluoride gas, and gallium arsenide substrates.  And there are processes in the fab with even worse stuff than that.  All of that must be cleaned up and properly disposed of, which is where water/wastewater and also general air pollution comes into the picture.   It's dirty, and costly, and it's easier to get "friendly" regulations elsewhere in the world, compared to the USA and Europe.

I was once in a fab where an ion implanter (not one of mine!) dumped an entire bottle of arsine into the air handling units.  There are filters and scrubbers in-line but they can't necessarily catch all of it, so alarms went off and they cleared the entire facility for hours.  Some scary stuff in those wafer fabs.

However, there's still a cost benefit to overseas wafer fabrication as well.  "Operators" are the majority of workers on a fab floor, and they are low-skill workers that do very basic things like move wafer boats around, and only the most basic of "button-pushing" on the fab equipment.  They can be paid substantially less overseas, than here in the USA.  But even engineers  make less over there.  When I was working at Teradyne as a field apps engineer programming their wafer test equipment, they really wanted me to take a lengthy assignment overseas in Singapore.  I was willing to do it as an expat, but they could only offer me in-country salary, which was about 2/3 of my American salary, and that was even giving me a sweetheart deal   compared to the going rate in that location.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 18, 2021, 07:20:35 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 18, 2021, 11:09:31 AM

I dont care who owns what or makes what

I just wish more of it was in the US

...but then Walmart wouldn't exist....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 18, 2021, 09:16:52 PM

just saw a MNF commercial by Walmart.............

states Walmart's bread is made in America, by Americans enjoying a living wage

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on October 18, 2021, 10:04:06 PM

I realize certain things about wafer fabs can be dirty but NFW can it be any dirtier than a petrochemical plant and there are literally hundreds if not thousands all over the state. Wafer fabs probably ship chemicals in by the 55 gallon drum, chemical plants ship em by the barge and tanker ship. 


Just in my county alone we put in over $20 billion dollars in chemical plants in the last 5 years. And still building. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 18, 2021, 10:07:00 PM

But CAN the work of those chemical plants be outsourced overseas?  If so, why doesn't that happen?

ICs can be produced anywhere.  So there are reasons why they're only produced en masse, in a very specific region of the world.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 19, 2021, 08:55:16 AM

Well we (the US) better figure out how to make those things here as I suspect that things are going to start going sideways with China in the next few years. I can see a cold war if not some sort of armed conflict on the horizon. China is looking to exert it's influence in more places around the world and look to minimize the United States influence and strength in the world. And if they continue to hold the means of production for some of our most important and critical goods and components, we are in for a world of hurt.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 19, 2021, 09:09:31 AM

"Let's Go Brandon" - a Joe Biden rap diss track has gone viral. It is now the #1 song in America on the charts. Literally.

I have never seen a president more hated by the actual everyday regular folk than the one we have now- despite mainstream mass media doing everything they can to try to prop him up- and Trump was pretty freaking hated.

Shit is wild out here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 19, 2021, 09:09:59 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 19, 2021, 08:55:16 AM

Well we (the US) better figure out how to make those things here as I suspect that things are going to start going sideways with China in the next few years. I can see a cold war if not some sort of armed conflict on the horizon. China is looking to exert it's influence in more places around the world and look to minimize the United States influence and strength in the world. And if they continue to hold the means of production for some of our most important and critical goods and components, we are in for a world of hurt. 

Ya and we can thank corporate America with their golden parachutes for processing the jobs out while they fattened their accounts.And probably found more tax shelters/write offs while doing it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 19, 2021, 09:25:41 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 19, 2021, 09:09:59 AM

Ya and we can thank corporate America with their golden parachutes for processing the jobs out while they fattened their accounts.And probably found more tax shelters/write offs while doing it

I agree with you to an extent. Companies/Corporations will always do what is best for their bottom line, that is the nature of business in a free market economy. However, the government can do things to incentivize these entities to do business in this country or push them out of the country to countries more hospitable to them. 

There is no magic bullet to fix this, but the first thing that needs to happen is for our government to remove barriers to bringing business back to this country. Onerous regulations and draconian laws on everything from taxes to environmental concerns have done a lot to entice companies/corporations to take their business elsewhere.

Also, we need to get serious about China and work to remove them from the favored nations list that is reserved for developing countries. This designation allows China to compete with relaxed rules that other countries abide to. That needs to change.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 19, 2021, 09:36:34 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 19, 2021, 09:09:31 AM

"Let's Go Brandon" - a Joe Biden rap diss track has gone viral. It is now the #1 song in America on the charts. Literally.

I have never seen a president more hated by the actual everyday regular folk than the one we have now- despite mainstream mass media doing everything they can to try to prop him up- and Trump was pretty freaking hated.

Shit is wild out here.

LOL, Trump was pretty well ahead on being hated. Most of this Biden stuff is pretty small potatoes. Twitter hate, really.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 19, 2021, 09:42:58 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 19, 2021, 09:36:34 AM

LOL, Trump was pretty well ahead on being hated. Most of this Biden stuff is pretty small potatoes. Twitter hate, really.

we will see just how much the potted plant is hated at the mid terms

my prediction is that he will not be in office then to try and turn the tide

but the additional problem is that the VP is also very much disliked

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on October 19, 2021, 09:43:25 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 18, 2021, 10:07:00 PM

But CAN the work of those chemical plants be outsourced overseas?  If so, why doesn't that happen?

ICs can be produced anywhere.  So there are reasons why they're only produced en masse, in a very specific region of the world.

Absolutely they can be produced all over the world and in fact are.  I think shipping plays a large part, but we do manufacture and ship lots and lots of chemicals by rail and ship all over the country/world.  I do know the US is now shipping LNG out to Asian countries as they do not have the nat gas supplies that we do here (thank George Mitchell for that!).  
But I don't think we're shipping plastic pellets or the bulk of the raw ingredients, just specialty chemicals coming in and a few going out.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 19, 2021, 09:58:50 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 19, 2021, 09:36:34 AM

LOL, Trump was pretty well ahead on being hated. Most of this Biden stuff is pretty small potatoes. Twitter hate, really.

Yeah, no.

I don't remember sports stadiums across the country for months screaming literally, F*ck Trump. That has been going on for literally months with Biden. Packed sports stadiums across this country- with majority of people chanting "F*CK JOE BIDEN".

I don't remember this much viral internet hate either- and there was a shit ton.

I don't remember a Donald Trump rap diss track going #1 on the charts all on the backs of people buying the song on iTunes.

Biden is definitely suffering from early onset dementia. Guy isn't even all there. Add to that 10 months in he's done virtually nothing- his legislative agenda has completely collapsed, the border situation is in crisis, foreign policy is a disaster, COVID surging, corruption up the ass with his crackhead son, and an economy that is teerting due to inflation running rampant, material shortages, supplies shortages, labor shortages, & ports backed up to the gills- store shelves everywhere out of shit- guy is just a complete dolt.

You seriously need to remove your bias from the equation and just look at the situation for what it is. Guy has a mini-uprising on his hands brewing. Dems are finished in 2022 and he's F*CKED in 2024. I don't even think Dems will let him run in 2024 imo.

This clown will give Jimmy Carter and W. a run for their money as worst President in history.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 19, 2021, 09:59:24 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 19, 2021, 09:42:58 AM

but the additional problem is that the VP is also very much disliked

she's literally the most disliked VP ever according to the pollsters.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 19, 2021, 10:13:00 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 19, 2021, 09:58:50 AM

Yeah, no.

I don't remember sports stadiums across the country for months screaming literally, F*ck Trump. That has been going on for literally months with Biden. Packed sports stadiums across this country- with majority of people chanting "F*CK JOE BIDEN".

I don't remember this much viral internet hate either- and there was a shit ton.

I don't remember a Donald Trump rap diss track going #1 on the charts all on the backs of people buying the song on iTunes.

Biden is definitely suffering from early onset dementia. Guy isn't even all there. Add to that 10 months in he's done virtually nothing- his legislative agenda has completely collapsed, the border situation is in crisis, foreign policy is a disaster, COVID surging, corruption up the ass with his crackhead son, and an economy that is teerting due to inflation running rampant, material shortages, supplies shortages, labor shortages, & ports backed up to the gills- store shelves everywhere out of shit- guy is just a complete dolt.

You seriously need to remove your bias from the equation and just look at the situation for what it is. Guy has a mini-uprising on his hands brewing. Dems are finished in 2022 and he's F*CKED in 2024. I don't even think Dems will let him run in 2024 imo.

This clown will give Jimmy Carter and W. a run for their money as worst President in history.

Are you kidding? People literally staged a gigantic protest the day Trump was inaugurated. I've never seen anything like it. It's funny seeing people chant at race tracks, but come on, this isn't close. It's not a thing outside of fun on Twitter. Most people aren't even paying that much attention - back to the old times, at least for a couple years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 19, 2021, 10:30:12 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 19, 2021, 10:13:00 AM

Are you kidding? People literally staged a gigantic protest the day Trump was inaugurated. I've never seen anything like it. It's funny seeing people chant at race tracks, but come on, this isn't close. It's not a thing outside of fun on Twitter. Most people aren't even paying that much attention - back to the old times, at least for a couple years.

Thats not what the current polls are saying

But thats fine cause I hope the Dems keep doing what they are doing

I just hope they dont completely wreck this country beyond repair before the mid terms

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 19, 2021, 10:33:26 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 19, 2021, 10:30:12 AM

Thats not what the current polls are saying

But thats fine cause I hope the Dems keep doing what they are doing

I just hope they dont completely wreck this country beyond repair before the mid terms

Well poll numbers go down, and then up, and then down, and then up. That's been true forever. Traditionally, the opposing party does well in midterm elections . That's not some sort of new thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 19, 2021, 10:46:07 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 19, 2021, 10:33:26 AM

Well poll numbers go down, and then up, and then down, and then up. That's been true forever. Traditionally, the opposing party does well in midterm elections . That's not some sort of new thing.

you are right 

no problem here

here is an example of the current crap going on


https://www.foxnews.com/us/midnight-biden-secretly-flying-underage-migrants-ny-night

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 19, 2021, 11:19:09 AM

:34:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 19, 2021, 11:20:41 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 19, 2021, 11:19:09 AM

:34:

just go grow your corn farmer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 19, 2021, 11:23:07 AM

time for harvest

followed two combines and a grain cart up the two-lane yesterday, was almost late for my tee time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 19, 2021, 11:37:53 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 19, 2021, 11:23:07 AM

time for harvest

followed two combines and a grain cart up the two-lane yesterday, was almost late for my tee time

what time does the Wells Fargo Wagon arrive

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 19, 2021, 01:15:05 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/ws58FtN.png) (https://i.imgur.com/pPkfllB.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/2l0s6pc.png) (https://i.imgur.com/nxzVEVm.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/AaQj7H5.png) (https://i.imgur.com/YQr8kWr.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/EA26zxE.png) (https://i.imgur.com/jJYLGJN.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Fw0Rx4V.png) (https://i.imgur.com/oFsB8MZ.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/gAjls2K.png)




[font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif]Cheers![/font][/font][/color]

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 19, 2021, 10:11:11 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/246620608_4543072012396839_5828324430515749011_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=gzMQDJiGz2EAX_n3l4z&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=e2843536d0ba63774d4ccae7f5830e9b&oe=6197041D)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 19, 2021, 11:06:41 PM

Ryan Day underpaid. 

Ed O and David Shaw incredibly overapid. 

Nick Saban should be getting like $20 million a year. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on October 19, 2021, 11:23:27 PM

Old Data. Jimbo #2. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on October 20, 2021, 12:05:54 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 19, 2021, 11:06:41 PM

Ryan Day underpaid.

Ed O and David Shaw incredibly overapid.

Nick Saban should be getting like $20 million a year.

At least Shaw and Day make some sense.

Shaw was getting NFL overtures, 5+ years ago, and I guess Stanford paid to keep him.  Ryan Day was an OC with no head coaching experience.  OSU wanted to keep him, but he didn't have a ton of leverage.

O makes no sense.  Did they just decide to give him a raise out of the kindness of their hearts?! No way in hell anyone was going to poach him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 20, 2021, 12:31:08 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 19, 2021, 11:06:41 PM

Ryan Day underpaid.

Too early to tell IMHO.

He hasn't had enough of a recruiting cycle to tell if he can win with his own...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 20, 2021, 01:26:37 AM

In a snap-shot, everyone is either over or underpaid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2021, 06:47:32 AM

Travel impressions:

We flew out to Denver and drove to Breckenridge, Grand Lake, Estes Park.  we took MARTA to the airport, it was crowded going down, and packed coming back, mostly with students from a private school, mostly younger girls in short skirts, which I found a bit surprising, private school and all that (Westminster Academy, school uniforms).

The plane both ways was completely full, they were asking for volunteers going out.  I guess I'm getting old, I don't much relish plane travel.  Atlanta airport was as crowded as I've ever seen it going out, about normal coming back, still crowded.  People are "back to normal" COVID or not.  We stayed at a nice resort in Breck, it was full, the town was pretty crowded despite the off season, it was cold, we saw 17°F one morning and some snow.  We had two nice dinners out, and one pretty bad.

I had reserved two nights in Grand Lake expecting to take the short drive through the park to Estes Park but the road was closed even though there was hardly any snow.  That dictated a 3.5 hour drive around including a stretch on I-70 which is rather unpleasant driving for me anyway.  I rented some kind of Kia that was "power deficient". was on the floor fairly often.  Berthoud Pass is interesting.  We tried a bit of climbing up from Loveland Pass which is at 11,990 feet, I'd take maybe 30 steps and have to stop for air.  You can see I-70 down way below before it enters the tunnel under the mountains.  We saw the Colorado River in the RMNP, interesting.  I hear it gets larger downstream.

(https://i.imgur.com/q8A1Lor.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2021, 06:48:37 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/uc12mie.jpg)

View off our deck in Breck, one day we had lunch outside sitting there in the sun, the next morning it was 17°F and snowing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2021, 06:53:59 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/yAuMKj1.jpg)

Taken from Loveland Pass, this is Arapahoe Ski area down below, you can see US 6.  Nobody was skiing yet.

(https://i.imgur.com/8GNLEkr.jpg)

The aspens were pretty when we arrived, that is Ten Mile Range in the background, I recco Breckenridge as a nice place to visit even in summer.

It reminds me of an upscale version of Gatlinburg (a lot upscale).

I'm glad to be home.  The MARTA station is almost a mile away and I'm getting too old for toting all the luggage the wife says she needs.  At least it is mostly downhill coming back  Lyft wanted $50 to get to the airport, we might take it to the MARTA station in the future.  The Denver airport is weird to me, poor signage.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 20, 2021, 07:19:29 AM

OAF- since you continually are aggrieved and INSIST on spewing your politics on this board, let’s get on with it. Your ruining our “safe space “

“DUE TO POLITICS decided earlier than others to let people die WHILE AT THE SAME TIME lauding his state's numbers....which proved to be the opposite of what he boasted.”

You said this on the other thread, but you shouldn’t talk about our Vegetable-In-Chief Biden like that. Is it his fault there have now been more covid deaths under his watch than his predecessor?  By your logic - it would appear so. 

“He's a nutj0b-adjacent alternative to Trump in 2024.
.
“He probably loves the poorly-educated, which is likely how he was elected in the first place.”


This is very accurate- but why do you keeping picking on Brandon..eh… I mean Biden?

Are you mad because his campaign slogan, “Build Back Better” has now officially been changed to “Lower your expectations”??

You said your angry because “this place is an echo chamber and your wasting your time here”. 

Well, since you are ruining this place with your BS politics all of the time, I have found the perfect school for you to teach at:

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/greg-gutfeld-world-men-nervous


Safe from all of us weird dudes who like football, recipes, data based analysis ….

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2021, 07:34:42 AM

Mask usage and requirements were sporadic on our travels, mostly not, some stores asked for masks to be worn, a minority.  We masked up in airports and on the plane, nobody seemed to mind much, a small minority in ATL were without masks.  In Breck maybe ten percent of stores had signs.

We were up front on the plane and had food or drinks almost nonstop so it wasn't an issue really.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 20, 2021, 08:07:05 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 20, 2021, 12:31:08 AM

Too early to tell IMHO.

He hasn't had enough of a recruiting cycle to tell if he can win with his own...

https://247sports.com/Season/2021-Football/CompositeRecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool
True, but he got 4 of the Top Ten recruits last winter and made the Play Off twice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 20, 2021, 08:28:14 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 20, 2021, 08:07:05 AM

https://247sports.com/Season/2021-Football/CompositeRecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool
True, but he got 4 of the Top Ten recruits last winter and made the Play Off twice

If you count the 3 games he coached in 2018, he is 28-3 as a head coach and undefeated in conference play, including 2 CFP appearances.

Not sure how you can conclude anything other than he is an excellent coach. There are very few major contributors left on the team that were not recruited by Day and his staff. They are the number one offense in CFB by most viable measures. Besides Saban, who has done better in the last 3 1/2 seasons? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2021, 08:30:01 AM

It is conceivable that a merely decent coach would inherit the OSU program and do as well.  I think it's too early to tell, personally.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 20, 2021, 08:50:00 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 20, 2021, 06:48:37 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/uc12mie.jpg)

View off our deck in Breck, one day we had lunch outside sitting there in the sun, the next morning it was 17°F and snowing.

Such a magnificent place.  Been a few years since I was there- but it never disappoints. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 20, 2021, 09:18:01 AM

Altitude is an ass-kicker. 

A friend of mine did a century ride in Colorado this summer called the Triple Bypass, so named because it went over three high passes (some 11K pass south of I-70, Loveland Pass, and Vail Pass). 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2021, 09:30:07 AM

Berthoud Pass is around 11,000 and just north of I-70.  Hoosier Pass is the same just south of Breck/I-70, might be that one.  One can make a nice loop drive through all three.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 20, 2021, 10:08:07 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 20, 2021, 08:28:14 AM

If you count the 3 games he coached in 2018, he is 28-3 as a head coach and undefeated in conference play, including 2 CFP appearances.

Not sure how you can conclude anything other than he is an excellent coach. There are very few major contributors left on the team that were not recruited by Day and his staff. They are the number one offense in CFB by most viable measures. Besides Saban, who has done better in the last 3 1/2 seasons?

no one. which is why I said he's underpaid.

And the offense he runs- I am super envious of. I LOVE the passing game. Not a fan of the QB spread read option shit that Urbz and RichRod made famous. Not a fan of the boring 3 yards and a cloud of dust stone age shit Harbaugh loves to run. I want to see QB's that can THROW THE BALL DOWN THE FIELD and make explosive plays in the passing game. Day's offenses have consistently done that in spades. I would KILL for that shit at Michigan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2021, 10:17:25 AM

Chevy Has a New 10-Liter Crate Motor That Makes 1004 HP (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a37990530/chevy-1004-hp-crate-motor-zz632-1000/?utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1h21E_XQIzxUBdN_mIT97JclKV14E8Fl0aC4lULwgR9lzNMCQ3vKTvQPc)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2021, 10:32:54 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 20, 2021, 10:17:25 AM

Chevy Has a New 10-Liter Crate Motor That Makes 1004 HP (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a37990530/chevy-1004-hp-crate-motor-zz632-1000/?utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1h21E_XQIzxUBdN_mIT97JclKV14E8Fl0aC4lULwgR9lzNMCQ3vKTvQPc)

I saw that too. I was going to post it on the electric car thread.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 20, 2021, 10:41:47 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 20, 2021, 08:07:05 AM

https://247sports.com/Season/2021-Football/CompositeRecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool
True, but he got 4 of the Top Ten recruits last winter and made the Play Off twice

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 20, 2021, 08:28:14 AM

If you count the 3 games he coached in 2018, he is 28-3 as a head coach and undefeated in conference play, including 2 CFP appearances.

Not sure how you can conclude anything other than he is an excellent coach. There are very few major contributors left on the team that were not recruited by Day and his staff. They are the number one offense in CFB by most viable measures. Besides Saban, who has done better in the last 3 1/2 seasons? 

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 20, 2021, 08:30:01 AM

It is conceivable that a merely decent coach would inherit the OSU program and do as well.  I think it's too early to tell, personally.

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 20, 2021, 10:08:07 AM

no one. which is why I said he's underpaid.

And the offense he runs- I am super envious of. I LOVE the passing game. Not a fan of the QB spread read option shit that Urbz and RichRod made famous. Not a fan of the boring 3 yards and a cloud of dust stone age shit Harbaugh loves to run. I want to see QB's that can THROW THE BALL DOWN THE FIELD and make explosive plays in the passing game. Day's offenses have consistently done that in spades. I would KILL for that shit at Michigan.

I should be more clear. I didn't want to intimate that he can't recruit, nor that he can't coach. 

There are skills that are necessary to be Head Coach that it's not yet clear whether he does or doesn't have. Football programs, even at helmets, don't run themselves. You need to have those "CEO" attributes above and beyond recruiting and coaching chops. 

The annals of college football is littered with promising coordinators who got up to the big time, and after a few years what was a finely tuned machine starts to show signs of slippage because they're not capable of being the unicorn that they replaced. 

This happens even more often when it's a coordinator who is elevated within his own program, because some of the cultural things that would change immediately if it was a coordinator poached from another program who takes over don't really change. 

The first 2 or so years after someone like Urban leaving a program still have his upperclassmen who were brought up in his "process" to use Saban's term, who are already baked so to speak and whatever Day does won't really change them. It's when they graduate out of the program and players who had little to no tutelage under Urban are forced to take the reins that we'll see if OSU starts to falter.

I'm not saying Day doesn't have those attributes. I'm saying it's too early to know either way. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 20, 2021, 10:45:44 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 20, 2021, 10:41:47 AM

I should be more clear. I didn't want to intimate that he can't recruit, nor that he can't coach.

There are skills that are necessary to be Head Coach that it's not yet clear whether he does or doesn't have. Football programs, even at helmets, don't run themselves. You need to have those "CEO" attributes above and beyond recruiting and coaching chops.

The annals of college football is littered with promising coordinators who got up to the big time, and after a few years what was a finely tuned machine starts to show signs of slippage because they're not capable of being the unicorn that they replaced.

This happens even more often when it's a coordinator who is elevated within his own program, because some of the cultural things that would change immediately if it was a coordinator poached from another program who takes over don't really change.

The first 2 or so years after someone like Urban leaving a program still have his upperclassmen who were brought up in his "process" to use Saban's term, who are already baked so to speak and whatever Day does won't really change them. It's when they graduate out of the program and players who had little to no tutelage under Urban are forced to take the reins that we'll see if OSU starts to falter.

I'm not saying Day doesn't have those attributes. I'm saying it's too early to know either way.

100% know what you mean. We saw this at Oregon when Chip left. 

I suspect Ryan Day is different. He's recruiting at Urban levels and the modernized passing offense is something he brought to the table. Urban was still running that QB-run heavy read option shit 'til Day come in and turned that offense into bombs away with Dwayne Haskins, Justin Fields, and now CJ Stroud into bombs away 4,000-5,000 yard and 35-50 TD's a season passers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2021, 11:08:58 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 20, 2021, 10:17:25 AM

Chevy Has a New 10-Liter Crate Motor That Makes 1004 HP (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a37990530/chevy-1004-hp-crate-motor-zz632-1000/?utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1h21E_XQIzxUBdN_mIT97JclKV14E8Fl0aC4lULwgR9lzNMCQ3vKTvQPc)

The 2023 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 is set to be revealed on October 26, 2021.

Perhaps the smaller flat crank hype was just hype?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 20, 2021, 11:19:57 AM

Florida didn't ride Urban's recruits for a few years before falling off of a cliff. They just fell off of the cliff right out of the gate. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2021, 11:24:15 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 20, 2021, 11:08:58 AM

The 2023 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 is set to be revealed on October 26, 2021.

Perhaps the smaller flat crank hype was just hype?

No, I've seen videos posted of the Z06 with engine noise, it's a 5.5 L FPC for sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2021, 11:25:35 AM

I think you're right, but could simply be put out there to deceive 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2021, 11:25:40 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 20, 2021, 11:19:57 AM

Florida didn't ride Urban's recruits for a few years before falling off of a cliff. They just fell off of the cliff right out of the gate.

Maybe Urban left because the larder was bare?  But you make a good point, programs do fall like a rock with a bad hire.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 20, 2021, 11:41:41 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 20, 2021, 11:19:57 AM

Florida didn't ride Urban's recruits for a few years before falling off of a cliff. They just fell off of the cliff right out of the gate.

True, but I think there's a major difference there. 

It was a complete staff overhaul, going from a very offensive-minded coach to a defensive-minded coach. It's very different from Day because Muschamp wasn't promoted from within Urban's system. So the entire culture changed on day 1, which didn't happen at OSU. 

It was also a perfect example of a coordinator who didn't figure out how to be a head coach. He never figured out how to bring in the talent on the offensive coaching staff to make up for his own deficiencies on that side of the ball. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2021, 12:14:36 PM

Does Appy St have a chance here???


No. 14 Coastal Carolina (6-0, 2-0 Sun Belt) at Appalachian State (4-2, 1-1), Wednesday at 7:30 p.m. EDT (ESPN2).

Line: Coastal Carolina by 4 1/2, according to .

Series record: Appalachian State leads 6-1.

WHAT'S AT STAKE?

A win by Coastal Carolina allows them to remain as the only undefeated team in the conference's East Division. However, an upset for Appalachian State would pull the Mountaineers into a tie with Coastal Carolina and Troy and give them a key tiebreaker against the Chanticleers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 20, 2021, 12:22:53 PM

We've seen countless helmets fall off of a cliff with a bad hire. Notre Dame, Texas, USC, Michigan, pre-Sabam Alabama, Florida, Florida State, Miami, Tennessee, Nebraska, Oregon... 

These programs don't run themselves. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 20, 2021, 12:27:59 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 20, 2021, 12:22:53 PM

We've seen countless helmets fall off of a cliff with a bad hire. Notre Dame, Texas, USC, Michigan, pre-Sabam Alabama, Florida, Florida State, Miami, Tennessee, Nebraska, Oregon...

These programs don't run themselves.

Yup. People think running the show at helmets are easier jobs. Most of the time they're a lot harder and you have to deal with a lot more bullshit than at smaller programs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2021, 01:04:20 PM

Sounds like Brian Laundrie has been found in Florida.

Dead.

Brian Laundrie search: Coroner arrives at Florida park after fugitive's items found | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/brian-laundrie-search-parents-florida-park-police-hunt-fugitive)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2021, 01:09:16 PM

I don't think Day is a bad coach at all, but I think it is possible he's near average, or slightly better than average, it's also possible he's elite.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2021, 01:45:19 PM

A Lewis Grizzard classic: My dog, Catfish, chasing stardom (ajc.com) (https://www.ajc.com/things-to-do/a-lewis-grizzard-classic-my-dog-catfish-chasing-stardom/U4MTJH2IGRCCDO2S6DOQIOJGXQ/?fbclid=IwAR0F67cyzhfy2gdZVCuTYJL4lxrzSzVa1dZzYpWvFgyQcGlT8BfQWrq9tjk)

We had a late lunch in Denver (nearish the airport) at a Ted's Montana Grill and above our booth was a quite by Grizzard.  I asked the server fellow if he had heard of him and he had not, so I gave him a brief overview.

"Shoot low, boys, they are riding Shetland Ponies".

I retained several of his books, they are fun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2021, 02:57:07 PM

"Shoot low, boys, they are riding Shetland Ponies".

they have this over a urinal in a bar that I frequent

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2021, 06:01:35 PM

2023 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Makes Photo Debut on Instagram (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/news/2023-chevrolet-corvette-z06-first-photo/?utm_campaign=trueAnthem)

UPDATE 10/20/21: Ahead of the 2023 Chevrolet Corvette Z06's official unveiling, the brand released a teaser video—a short version of a longer film that will be released when the car is revealed—that happens to drop at least one tantalizing nugget we didn't previously have. In the video, we find out that the Z06's flat-plane crank V-8 revs out to 8,600 rpm. That's notably higher than the late Ford Mustang Shelby GT350 and GT350R (https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2020-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350r-first-drive-review-photos-specs/)'s 8,250 rpm redline.



I doubt one can reach 8600 with a pushrod design.  


(https://i.imgur.com/OIwftnE.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 20, 2021, 06:02:40 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 20, 2021, 11:19:57 AM

Florida didn't ride Urban's recruits for a few years before falling off of a cliff. They just fell off of the cliff right out of the gate.

Muschamp went 11-1 in year 2, then lost to Lousiville in the Sugar Bowl.  Then we fell off a cliff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 20, 2021, 06:19:28 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 20, 2021, 06:02:40 PM

Muschamp went 11-1 in year 2, then lost to Lousiville in the Sugar Bowl.  Then we fell off a cliff.

It looks like you accidentally forgot to include his year 1 results. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 20, 2021, 06:28:23 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 20, 2021, 02:57:07 PM

"Shoot low, boys, they are riding Shetland Ponies".

That's you in a cart

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2021, 06:31:00 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/mLNUf6a.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2021, 06:31:34 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/5VkC8Pr.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 20, 2021, 09:25:23 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 20, 2021, 06:19:28 PM

It looks like you accidentally forgot to include his year 1 results.

Same as UM's last year.
What Muschamp does to quarterbacks is how Rocky Mtn oysters are made.  Jeff Driskel could have been great - look at his year at LA Tech and that he's actually sticking in the pros.  But the boy was so terrifed to turn the ball over or hit a big play that might make the defense eventualy tire.....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 20, 2021, 11:15:53 PM

App State's first win over a ranked team since.............

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 21, 2021, 01:16:11 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 20, 2021, 11:15:53 PM

App State's first win over a ranked team since.............

FWIW, it's a run of seven games. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 21, 2021, 09:16:09 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/fY6isVU.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 21, 2021, 10:43:35 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 21, 2021, 09:16:09 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/fY6isVU.png)

Interesting. Because I'm a data skeptic, I'd love to know the composition of those throws.

Not saying it is or isn't the case, but that could speak to only throwing the choicest of deeper passes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 21, 2021, 11:10:07 AM

the TE is WIDE open!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 21, 2021, 11:10:34 AM

10 yards isn't too far downfield

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 21, 2021, 11:46:05 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 21, 2021, 11:10:34 AM

10 yards isn't too far downfield

Yup, and I think they count YAC in the figure, so a 5 yard swing pass that gains 10 YAC would be 15.  He has completed a fair number of actual long passes, his issue is height and some arm strength, but he's pretty accurate.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 21, 2021, 12:21:02 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 21, 2021, 11:46:05 AM

Yup, and I think they count YAC in the figure, so a 5 yard swing pass that gains 10 YAC would be 15.  He has completed a fair number of actual long passes, his issue is height and some arm strength, but he's pretty accurate.

May or may not... In the NFL they track DOT (depth of target, i.e. air yards) and YAC separately. It's not hard to actually have depth of target stats for players. I'm not sure whether college stat-trackers really put in the time and effort to do it, though. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 21, 2021, 12:23:03 PM

I doubt they count YAC, but I'm not certain

the way it's worded, they should not

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Thumper on October 21, 2021, 01:16:04 PM

76.5% is massive regardless of how they count depth.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 21, 2021, 01:37:10 PM

Drew Brees massive

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 21, 2021, 01:38:18 PM

Stetson Bennett Stats, News, Bio | ESPN

 (https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/4259553/stetson-bennett)
His overall completion percentage is 69.5%, so there could be something wonky about the earlier state on 10+ yards.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 22, 2021, 11:23:57 AM

Would be good for this to happen (FL ports stepping up).

Shipping debacle will lead to increased prices long term, Florida Ports Council chair says | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/shipping-increased-prices-long-term-florida-ports-council)


Bring it.

"As the rest of the nation faces rampant inflation and businesses stare down unprecedented supply chain problems, our message is this: Florida is here, we have capacity, we have incentive packages to help businesses who want to move here and we are going to make sure Americans get their Christmas gifts this season," DeSantis (https://www.foxnews.com/category/person/ron-desantis) said in a statement.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 22, 2021, 11:29:10 AM

those Xmas gifts are important

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 22, 2021, 12:21:05 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 22, 2021, 11:23:57 AM

Would be good for this to happen (FL ports stepping up).

Shipping debacle will lead to increased prices long term, Florida Ports Council chair says | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/shipping-increased-prices-long-term-florida-ports-council)


Bring it.

"As the rest of the nation faces rampant inflation and businesses stare down unprecedented supply chain problems, our message is this: Florida is here, we have capacity, we have incentive packages to help businesses who want to move here and we are going to make sure Americans get their Christmas gifts this season," DeSantis (https://www.foxnews.com/category/person/ron-desantis) said in a statement.

How dare him. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 22, 2021, 01:59:51 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 22, 2021, 11:23:57 AM

Would be good for this to happen (FL ports stepping up).

Shipping debacle will lead to increased prices long term, Florida Ports Council chair says | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/shipping-increased-prices-long-term-florida-ports-council)


Bring it.

"As the rest of the nation faces rampant inflation and businesses stare down unprecedented supply chain problems, our message is this: Florida is here, we have capacity, we have incentive packages to help businesses who want to move here and we are going to make sure Americans get their Christmas gifts this season," DeSantis (https://www.foxnews.com/category/person/ron-desantis) said in a statement.

Guy is a total stud. 

I hope he stays the governor of Florida forever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 22, 2021, 02:11:52 PM

I'm not sure in what he said has much reality to it.  It might well be high sounding words with little of substance.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 22, 2021, 02:33:54 PM

Oh, it's real.

Fort Lauderdale will get its first-ever shipment from India on Monday.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 22, 2021, 02:34:35 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 22, 2021, 01:59:51 PM

Guy is a total stud.

I hope he stays the governor of Florida forever.

Would have to change the FL Constitution for that to happen. 2 terms max right now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 22, 2021, 02:39:49 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/jqp1GBi.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 22, 2021, 02:54:19 PM

At what point do we begin to seriously consider giving California to Mexico? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 22, 2021, 03:01:57 PM

Start paying drayage truckers and it might just help.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 22, 2021, 03:10:39 PM

How much do you think they should make?

Going rate is about $30/hour right now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 22, 2021, 04:01:59 PM

Unless something is drastically different, drayage truckers were paid by the load, not the hour. And since intermodal terminals are so clogged, no movements no pay.

https://www.joc.com/trucking-logistics/drayage/drayage-divers-quitting-rail-ramp-congestion-crimps-pay_20210519.html

Quote

Drivers who dray ocean containers in the Midwest and South Central US are quitting in alarming numbers this year because rail terminal congestion (https://www.joc.com/rail-intermodal/bottlenecking-us-rail-terminals-record-imports-move-inland_20210427.html) has lowered their daily productivity and, in turn, their paychecks, according to trucking executives.
Although trucking companies have raised rates for drayage service and increased driver pay, it has not been enough to compensate drivers for completing fewer jobs per day. Drayage providers in Chicago, Cleveland, Columbus, Dallas, Kansas City (https://www.joc.com/rail-intermodal/intermodal-shipping/kansas-city-rail-terminals-overwhelmed-ocean-containers_20210419.html), and Memphis have seen as much as one-quarter of their drivers quit because of their decline in income.
Average local drayage driver pay has fallen about 20 percent this year compared with 2019 because drivers get paid per completed job — not per hour or per mile — according to trucking executives in Chicago, Dallas, Kansas City, and Memphis.

The last Port of Seattle survey of driver conditions in 2013 found that most drivers were working additional jobs to make ends meet.

https://depts.washington.edu/sctlctr/research/publications/economic-characteristics-drayage-drivers-port-seattle

And even if you did get hired on, why would you work with these kind of contracts?

https://www.usatoday.com/pages/interactives/news/rigged-forced-into-debt-worked-past-exhaustion-left-with-nothing/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 22, 2021, 06:10:14 PM

I know I'm just confused and must be missing the post-apocalyptic hellscape that California has become...

...but rolling in the south Orange County sunshine on a late October afternoon in a Jeep with the top down and the tunes up is pretty awesome.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 22, 2021, 06:13:55 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 22, 2021, 02:54:19 PM

At what point do we begin to seriously consider giving California to Mexico?

Can’t afford to. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 22, 2021, 06:31:48 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 22, 2021, 03:10:39 PM

How much do you think they should make?

Going rate is about $30/hour right now.

A large percentage of them are subject to some grotesque labor practices.

The truck owner-operator scam is just shameful. And it takes people who are possibly willing to work hard, maybe have some entrepreneurial spirit and uses them for super low-price labor before throwing them out. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 22, 2021, 06:51:35 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 22, 2021, 06:13:55 PM

Can’t afford to.

Sure we can. We are an industrious people, we'll be just fine. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 22, 2021, 06:53:50 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 22, 2021, 06:13:55 PM

Can’t afford to.

Yep. California gives more to Washington than Washington spends in California.

Not like Florida which sucks down $50B more in federal spending every year than they pay in federal taxes...

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/donor-states

The least Florida could do is say thanks...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 22, 2021, 06:55:09 PM

There are more important things than money. 

Plus Mexico could use a boost to their economy. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 22, 2021, 07:08:26 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 22, 2021, 06:51:35 PM

Sure we can. We are an industrious people, we'll be just fine.

Lord, the compensation process would be a mess. 

The idea it would go to Mexico is funny. That place is declaring independence first. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 22, 2021, 07:41:03 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 22, 2021, 06:53:50 PM

Yep. California gives more to Washington than Washington spends in California.

Not like Florida which sucks down $50B more in federal spending every year than they pay in federal taxes...

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/donor-states

The least Florida could do is say thanks...

Thanks.  California- where lawnmowers with gas motors have been banned, gives me the perspective of why I’m so grateful I am never going to have to live there.😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 22, 2021, 07:47:50 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 22, 2021, 07:08:26 PM

Lord, the compensation process would be a mess.

The idea it would go to Mexico is funny. That place is declaring independence first.

Well we'd be giving you to Mexico as a gift. So it isn't like you are going to have any say in the matter. 

If you want to go Rogue after that, all you have to do is fight your own version of the Revolutionary war. 

Might be tough without any guns though. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 22, 2021, 08:08:42 PM

California has too much food, can't let them go. The obvious choice is Florida. Its biggest export is crazy people. Give it to Cuba.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 22, 2021, 08:10:57 PM

BTW I tried Del Taco, which I found while meeting my parents in southern Ohio. It was disgusting. Somehow the taco meat had the texture of Taco Bell without any flavor. I doused it in hot sauce to give it some sort of flavor. The hot sauce wasn't very good, and also their drink machine was broken, which wasn't great after all that hot sauce.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 22, 2021, 08:21:29 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 22, 2021, 06:55:09 PM

There are more important things than money.

Tell that to half the country.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 22, 2021, 08:29:06 PM

A long-term plus out of this supply chain issue is that it shows our reliance on one big port. 

Why we don't have 5 others as big is beyond me.  If Ft. Lauderdale is getting its first shipment from India ever, why not continue it going forward?
Maybe having our 2 largest ports side-by-side isn't a brilliant plan.

An unmarked plane bombs LA and Long Beach, and we're back in the stone age.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 22, 2021, 08:29:34 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 22, 2021, 08:21:29 PM

Tell that to half the country.

Technically I just told it to the entire world.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 22, 2021, 08:51:44 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 22, 2021, 08:08:42 PM

California has too much food, can't let them go. The obvious choice is Florida. Its biggest export is crazy people. Give it to Cuba.

They already have 1/3 of it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 22, 2021, 08:59:30 PM

And Cali already has 1/3 of Mexico. 

Match made in Heaven. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 22, 2021, 08:59:49 PM

I love it all you transplants getting provincial 🤣

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 22, 2021, 10:10:22 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 22, 2021, 06:10:14 PM

I know I'm just confused and must be missing the post-apocalyptic hellscape that California has become...

...but rolling in the south Orange County sunshine on a late October afternoon in a Jeep with the top down and the tunes up is pretty awesome.

congrats. your life has become a miley cyrus song.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 22, 2021, 10:11:32 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 22, 2021, 08:08:42 PM

California has too much food, can't let them go. The obvious choice is Florida. Its biggest export is crazy people. Give it to Cuba.

How is Florida the obvious choice? If we're being honest here- the obvious choice is Ohio. Everyone knows Ohio sucks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 22, 2021, 10:12:47 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 22, 2021, 08:29:06 PM

A long-term plus out of this supply chain issue is that it shows our reliance on one big port. 

Why we don't have 5 others as big is beyond me.  If Ft. Lauderdale is getting its first shipment from India ever, why not continue it going forward?
Maybe having our 2 largest ports side-by-side isn't a brilliant plan.

An unmarked plane bombs LA and Long Beach, and we're back in the stone age.

OAM - damnit when you make a great point you make a great point. 

Couldn't agree more with everything you just said.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 22, 2021, 10:15:21 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 22, 2021, 06:10:14 PM

I know I'm just confused and must be missing the post-apocalyptic hellscape that California has become...

...but rolling in the south Orange County sunshine on a late October afternoon in a Jeep with the top down and the tunes up is pretty awesome.

I was on the golf course in NW Iowa in late October

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 22, 2021, 10:22:44 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 22, 2021, 08:21:29 PM

Tell that to half the country.

which half, the half that wants it given to them, or the half that wants ti keep it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 22, 2021, 10:23:37 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 22, 2021, 07:47:50 PM

Well we'd be giving you to Mexico as a gift. So it isn't like you are going to have any say in the matter.

If you want to go Rogue after that, all you have to do is fight your own version of the Revolutionary war.

Might be tough without any guns though.

Can buy guns. That's what money does. 

(Lord this jerkoff fantasy remains weird)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 22, 2021, 10:30:20 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 22, 2021, 06:10:14 PM

I know I'm just confused and must be missing the post-apocalyptic hellscape that California has become...

...but rolling in the south Orange County sunshine on a late October afternoon in a Jeep with the top down and the tunes up is pretty awesome.

California is beautiful, perhaps one of my favorite places to look at and enjoy.  No dispute there. Florida has a fraction of the beauty- along some of the coastline. But the entire middle is flat and downright ugly.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 22, 2021, 10:35:11 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 22, 2021, 10:23:37 PM

Can buy guns. That's what money does.

(Lord this jerkoff fantasy remains weird)

I suppose that you could, but the only "Californians" that would know how to use one are going to be siding with Mexico

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 22, 2021, 10:42:23 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 22, 2021, 10:35:11 PM

I suppose that you could, but the only "Californians" that would know how to use one are going to be siding with Mexico

Just hear that unserious slapping sound for some reason. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 22, 2021, 10:47:19 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 22, 2021, 10:22:44 PM

which half, the half that wants it given to them, or the half that wants ti keep it?

The half that values it over everything else.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 22, 2021, 10:52:19 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 22, 2021, 10:47:19 PM

The half that values it over everything else.

The half that you are referring to aren't the ones that are bellyaching about the monetary ramifications of giving California to Mexico.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 22, 2021, 10:53:59 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 22, 2021, 10:42:23 PM

Just hear that unserious slapping sound for some reason.

Well Alec Baldwin might accidentally rack up a few kills, but at least half of those are bound to be friendly fire.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 22, 2021, 11:03:20 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 22, 2021, 10:47:19 PM

The half that values it over everything else.

they both seem to

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 22, 2021, 11:22:00 PM

I doubt that there are more than 8 people on the "half" that Fro is referring to who would offer up any type of serious objection to cutting California loose.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 22, 2021, 11:33:39 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 22, 2021, 10:53:59 PM

Well Alec Baldwin might accidentally rack up a few kills, but at least half of those are bound to be friendly fire.

A part of me wants to answer this, but then I realize it’s just going down this incredibly stupid jerk off story that you’re concocting. Run along and keep playing pretend like a slow child.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 22, 2021, 11:39:12 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 22, 2021, 11:33:39 PM

A part of me wants to answer this, but then I realize it’s just going down this incredibly stupid jerk off story that you’re concocting. Run along and keep playing pretend like a slow child. 

Lol that you tried to use "money" as your bargaining chip. The whole point of money is to buy things that you want. As such if you have to take a monetary hit in order to gain your independence from the coastal elitists, then it is worth every penny.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 22, 2021, 11:58:09 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 22, 2021, 11:39:12 PM

Lol that you tried to use "money" as your bargaining chip. The whole point of money is to buy things that you want. As such if you have to take a monetary hit in order to gain your independence from the coastal elitists, then it is worth every penny. 

BB. Friend. 

Let me tell you something. This is pretending you're doing. You're pretending California is this magical talisman of, I dunno, something. It's a massive state. It's got 11 percent of the people in this beautiful country. It's got one in 12 people who voted for the guy you voted for. No one would strip rights and citizenship from one of 10 Americans, and the fact the idea makes people happy is both grotesque and sickening. It is at it's heart an idea that's purely anti-American.

There's no bargaining chip and there's no independence because we're all Americans. If that upsets you so to be a part of our tribe, that's on you, not me or mine. Frankly, the idea that you'd get joy to eject your countrymen for reasons that frankly show a basic misunderstanding of the world around you (or I suppose the world is put aside to play gleeful pretend like a child), it disgusts me to my core. Just some shameful stuff. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 23, 2021, 12:11:08 AM

you two settle down

dont make me pull this car over

wheres my fly swatter

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 23, 2021, 12:28:12 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 23, 2021, 12:11:08 AM

you two settle down

dont make me pull this car over

wheres my fly swatter

When I left for dinner, I was kinda hoping to come back and talk about trucking situations, TBH. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 23, 2021, 12:30:41 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 22, 2021, 11:58:09 PM

BB. Friend.

Let me tell you something. This is pretending you're doing. You're pretending California is this magical talisman of, I dunno, something. It's a massive state. It's got 11 percent of the people in this beautiful country. It's got one in 12 people who voted for the guy you voted for. No one would strip rights and citizenship from one of 10 Americans, and the fact the idea makes people happy is both grotesque and sickening. It is at it's heart an idea that's purely anti-American.

There's no bargaining chip and there's no independence because we're all Americans. If that upsets you so to be a part of our tribe, that's on you, not me or mine. Frankly, the idea that you'd get joy to eject your countrymen for reasons that frankly show a basic misunderstanding of the world around you (or I suppose the world is put aside to play gleeful pretend like a child), it disgusts me to my core. Just some shameful stuff.

Lol, countries split up all the time. Anyone would cut their oppressors loose if given the opportunity. 

With your logic, we'd still be loyal to the Crown. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 23, 2021, 05:31:14 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 22, 2021, 11:03:20 PM

they both seem to

Not referring to the leaders, but the sheep.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 23, 2021, 05:37:29 AM

I would laugh my ass off if Margery Taylor Nuts got her way and CA and the northeast broke away from the midwest and south.  
CA feeds 2/3 of the country their non-corn/wheat produce.

The crazy R crowd would be left with the rust belt and a rural south that is 1/3 minorities.  Recipe for success, I know.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 23, 2021, 08:20:13 AM

Folks like to "fantasize" about highly unlikely (in my view) possibilities.  I mostly avoid that.

I've seen proposals to brack CA into 2-3-5 separate states, which I suppose is faintly possible someday.  The area in Atlanta called Buckhead has some similar effort afoot to break away from the city, it's largely white and wealthy.  My inkling is they are wanting more attention from City Hall and this is one way to get same.

Our political schism is largely rural vs urban, which makes sense.  I live in a clearly urban area and am far more dependent on government that if I lived out in the boonies.

The area around me in say 2 miles or so is developing rapidly, I like watching construction projects so that aspect is fun for me.  Traffic is not too bad usually, but could become so.  I'm still wondering if these large office buildings are going to attract tennants but thus far it seems they are.  I thought the WFH trend accelerated by COVID would really put a damper on the need for office space.

Midtown on the Rise: The cranes are flying as high-rise projects proliferate - Reporter Newspapers (https://reporternewspapers.net/2021/10/22/midtown-on-the-rise-the-cranes-are-flying-as-high-rise-projects-proliferate/?fbclid=IwAR2dcb4_uX6HzwgyfBJNfSBg8JbPVNmmOWrL36P324y2w2UfZP0Pt-1ffMU)

(https://i.imgur.com/gOoURbO.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 23, 2021, 08:26:40 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 23, 2021, 12:11:08 AM

you two settle down

dont make me pull this car over

wheres my fly swatter

(https://i.imgur.com/Hb7GlTR.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 23, 2021, 08:31:44 AM

How 0-60 Testing Works - Magazines 0-60 Testing (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/buying-maintenance/a30905608/how-0-to-60-tests-work/?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR28Y3AzGekzZ-9BlekrOTUTpZVaqdAmp6U-7Y0Drsu7g5KTjRwCx37Qxvs)

The difference is telling. The X2’s brake-torqued, 4.6-second 0-to-60 is a staggering 1.8 seconds quicker than its real-world, mat-the-pedal 5-to-60. At 6.4 seconds, the BMW’s 5–60 sprint is far behind the Bullitt’s (5.0 seconds) and barely quicker than that of a Honda Odyssey minivan (6.6 seconds in both acceleration tests).
Don’t be surprised if that Honda van dusts a Subaru WRX STI at the next traffic light, either. The Subie’s published 0-to-60 is 5.3 seconds, but getting there requires a redline clutch-dump so abusive to the driveline, it should constitute a war crime. Had you looked at the laggy Subaru’s 7.0-second 5-to-60 number, you’d have known the boxy kid-hauler is way more likely to show its taillights to the rally champ.
These days, I’m a middle-age enginerd, and I win more stoplight grands prix than ever—even if I’m more likely to be the one in the minivan. My superpower isn’t age or experience. It’s that 5-to-60—the first number you should look at, and when the light turns green, the only one that matters.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 23, 2021, 08:34:09 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 23, 2021, 05:37:29 AM

The crazy R crowd would be left with the rust belt and a rural south that is 1/3 minorities.  Recipe for success, I know.

We'd get by fine up here perhaps you've heard of canning,it can be done at home.Many around here do it

(https://i.imgur.com/TlIJqJ1.jpg)


Now if i lived in a God foresaken desert say like Phoenix I might start sweating it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 23, 2021, 08:41:18 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 22, 2021, 10:11:32 PM

How is Florida the obvious choice? If we're being honest here- the obvious choice is Ohio. Everyone knows Ohio sucks.

You're even agreeing with OAM - go to bed you're drunk

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 23, 2021, 08:45:49 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 22, 2021, 02:54:19 PM

At what point do we begin to seriously consider giving California to Mexico?

The Nation would rise up in righeous might with pitchforks,hatchets and torches it some one tried to make off with the Clippers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 23, 2021, 08:57:16 AM

My grandparent's basement was lined with "cans" (jars) of vegetables, hundreds I suppose.  This was in east Tennessee.

The "soil" around here is not very good for gardening, it's mostly red clay and granite,

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 23, 2021, 10:10:35 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 23, 2021, 05:37:29 AM

I would laugh my ass off if Margery Taylor Nuts got her way and CA and the northeast broke away from the midwest and south. 
CA feeds 2/3 of the country their non-corn/wheat produce.

The crazy R crowd would be left with the rust belt and a rural south that is 1/3 minorities.  Recipe for success, I know.

She must have gotten that from me, as I have long advocated for giving NY to Canada and CA to Mexico. 

We would be just fine without all your hand wringing micro-managing nonsense. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2021, 10:13:57 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 22, 2021, 06:53:50 PM

Yep. California gives more to Washington than Washington spends in California.

Not like Florida which sucks down $50B more in federal spending every year than they pay in federal taxes...

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/donor-states

The least Florida could do is say thanks...

The 5,000,000 retired people getting their SS tax contribution back say hello.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 23, 2021, 10:39:04 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2021, 10:13:57 AM

The 5,000,000 retired people getting their SS tax contribution back say hello.

An interesting theory. Probably doesn't affect the raw bottom line comparatively (Californians almost assuredly recoup more of the SS tax contributions in terms of raw dollars than Florida), though I suppose it would tweak the numbers since fewer Floridians work on a percentage basis. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 23, 2021, 10:43:02 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 23, 2021, 05:31:14 AM

Not referring to the leaders, but the sheep.

I was referring to the sheep as well

oops, I went to bed early last night

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 23, 2021, 10:43:21 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 23, 2021, 12:30:41 AM

Lol, countries split up all the time. Anyone would cut their oppressors loose if given the opportunity.

With your logic, we'd still be loyal to the Crown.

Son. your civics teacher taught you better than that. We left the British empire as an act of self determination. They didn't throw us out because our power hurt their feelings. 

If you'd like, you can practice your self determination and leave (heck, the state you're in, I think, is probably the most likely to dabble in that self determination). Would hate to see you go. If you'd like, i'll got talk to my parents in their late 60s and my friend's 5-2 pregnant wife and ask them to stop oppressing you so much. I know all the "oppression" you're feeling is pretty hurtful. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 23, 2021, 10:44:13 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 23, 2021, 08:20:13 AM

Our political schism is largely rural vs urban, which makes sense.  I live in a clearly urban area and am far more dependent on government that if I lived out in the boonies.

I'm generally interested in this, how do you mean?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 23, 2021, 10:49:59 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 23, 2021, 10:43:21 AM

Son. your civics teacher taught you better than that. We left the British empire as an act of self determination. They didn't throw us out because our power hurt their feelings.

If you'd like, you can practice your self determination and leave (heck, the state you're in, I think, is probably the most likely to dabble in that self determination). Would hate to see you go. If you'd like, i'll got talk to my parents in their late 60s and my friend's 5-2 pregnant wife and ask them to stop oppressing you so much. I know all the "oppression" you're feeling is pretty hurtful.

Lol. We left over taxes, which were practically nonexistent back then compared to the tremendous burden that they have become today. Just pennies on the dollar. 

You are kind of proving my point for me though. I don't have even a fraction of a percent of the power and influence that a fella would need in order to inspire the United States to expel California from the Union. So your butt hurt stems solely from the fact that you are grouchy that my opinion on the matter differs from yours. Thought police. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 23, 2021, 10:51:58 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 23, 2021, 08:20:13 AM

Our political schism is largely rural vs urban, which makes sense.  I live in a clearly urban area and am far more dependent on government that if I lived out in the boonies.

I dont think where you live determines dependence on the government.  Folks who are highly dependent on the government tend to migrate to urban areas.  That doesnt mean if you happen to live in an urban area you are highly dependent on the government.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 23, 2021, 11:13:55 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 23, 2021, 10:10:35 AM

She must have gotten that from me, as I have long advocated for giving NY to Canada and CA to Mexico

I've thought of gifting you to Michigan ;D

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 23, 2021, 11:16:15 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 23, 2021, 08:34:09 AM

We'd get by fine up here perhaps you've heard of canning,it can be done at home.Many around here do it

(https://i.imgur.com/TlIJqJ1.jpg)


Now if i lived in a God foresaken desert say like Phoenix I might start sweating it

My granny had ALLLL the canned veggies in mason jars.  Always sent us home with some.  That, and shelled pecans.  Gallon bags-full.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 23, 2021, 11:17:24 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 23, 2021, 10:43:02 AM

I was referring to the sheep as well

oops, I went to bed early last night

Were you counting them or accosting them?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 23, 2021, 11:21:24 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 23, 2021, 10:10:35 AM

She must have gotten that from me, as I have long advocated for giving NY to Canada and CA to Mexico.

We would be just fine without all your hand wringing micro-managing nonsense.

You'd just give away over 20% of our county's GDP because of differences of opinion.  
Your people are going to love paying triple for produce and starting from scratch with an economic epicenter.  lol

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 23, 2021, 11:23:06 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 23, 2021, 10:49:59 AM

Lol. We left over taxes, which were practically nonexistent back then compared to the tremendous burden that they have become today. Just pennies on the dollar.

If you feel oppressed, you're free to leave. That's my unpoliced thought about your unpoliced thought.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 23, 2021, 11:26:35 AM

The "if you don't like it, you can leave" narrative is such BS.  Our country has nothing but taken in people, en masse.  You see, we adjust, improve, and move on.  It's called progress.
And progress is undefeated.  It can be slow at times, but yeah, if you're in the way of progress, instead of suggesting you leave....I'd just predict you'll fall in line or at worse, just age out.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 23, 2021, 11:29:24 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 22, 2021, 11:33:39 PM

A part of me wants to answer this, but then I realize it’s just going down this incredibly stupid jerk off story that you’re concocting. Run along and keep playing pretend like a slow child. 

yet, here we are 12 hours later

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2021, 11:34:09 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 23, 2021, 10:39:04 AM

An interesting theory. Probably doesn't affect the raw bottom line comparatively (Californians almost assuredly recoup more of the SS tax contributions in terms of raw dollars than Florida), though I suppose it would tweak the numbers since fewer Floridians work on a percentage basis.

Well, just using me and my wife as examples here...

All of her contributions went through Illinois. All of my contributions still go through Illinois, since my company is based there. And, I pay double on me, and the other half for every employee I have (because businessmen suck, of course).

So, I'll be happy when we start collecting all of that Illinois "contribution" here in Florida.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 23, 2021, 11:35:49 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 23, 2021, 11:23:06 AM

If you feel oppressed, you're free to leave. That's my unpoliced thought about your unpoliced thought.

Lol. Man, you are easy to troll. At least try and shake the hook. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 23, 2021, 11:39:50 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 23, 2021, 10:51:58 AM

I dont think where you live determines dependence on the government.  Folks who are highly dependent on the government tend to migrate to urban areas.  That doesnt mean if you happen to live in an urban area you are highly dependent on the government.

I think it's also complicated because while rural areas are free of that congestion, their links to the rest of places are also pretty often government reliant. And if there's less government, all those things are more expensive farther out. Not to mention, it's pretty hard to farm a ton of things in this country independently without government subsidy. 

Basically, my thought it there's a modest amount of government infrastructure that boosts rural places that would see increased prices, were it not subsidized. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 23, 2021, 11:41:26 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 23, 2021, 11:26:35 AM

Our country has nothing but taken in people, en masse.  You see, we adjust, improve, and move on.  It's called progress.
And progress is undefeated.  It can be slow at times, but yeah, if you're in the way of progress, instead of suggesting you leave....I'd just predict you'll fall in line or at worse, just age out. 

Progress isn't opening the gates and leaving everyone eat for free unchecked. Whether it's corporate write offs/subsidies or welfare assistance/benefits to those that either didn't need or earn such.The Constitution or Bill of Rights didn't include enslaving the working class to free loaders

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 23, 2021, 11:43:01 AM

Fro is just belching out left wing buzz words like a pull string dummy, as usual. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 23, 2021, 11:43:49 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 23, 2021, 11:35:49 AM

Lol. Man, you are easy to troll. At least try and shake the hook.

It's one of my great weaknesses. I like having civil conversation. It's in fact why I come here. Because in a world where people meander about deciding to say things because they'll get some jollies from making people mad, this place is a nice receive. Was, anyway. 

Now run along, do some meth and sample the child brides like you South Utah folks do. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 23, 2021, 11:49:37 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2021, 11:34:09 AM

Well, just using me and my wife as examples here...

All of her contributions went through Illinois. All of my contributions still go through Illinois, since my company is based there. And, I pay double on me, and the other half for every employee I have (because businessmen suck, of course).

So, I'll be happy when we start collecting all of that Illinois "contribution" here in Florida.

How dare you have a well thought out plan,possess professional accrued skills coupled with due diligence and have the gall to implement them,why I never.....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 23, 2021, 11:54:29 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 23, 2021, 11:43:49 AM

Now run along, do some meth and sample the child brides like you South Utah folks do.

"Gentlemen. You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 23, 2021, 12:07:38 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2021, 11:34:09 AM

Well, just using me and my wife as examples here...

All of her contributions went through Illinois. All of my contributions still go through Illinois, since my company is based there. And, I pay double on me, and the other half for every employee I have (because businessmen suck, of course).

So, I'll be happy when we start collecting all of that Illinois "contribution" here in Florida.

Well, I get that. But all 5 million old Florida folks aren't from out of state. And all nearly 6 million Californians older than 65 aren't from in-state either. And assuming the rates are roughly average (I know different states pay out different amounts and there are a bunch of other factors, but I couldn't find the raw data there), any contributions coming out of a state like Ca. are despite a larger payout than the one going to Florida for those benefits. 

Now, the flipside, I guessed, would be that Floridians are working at a lower rates than Californians, since more of their population is older. However, and I just looked this up, it turns out 54.4 percent of Floridians are between 20-62 (my rough guess on working pop, adjusted for the data I could find. Can tweak if interest), but that number only jumps 57.3 in California, which has a difference of 8 percent in terms of old people, but it's counteracted by 5 percent in terms of 19 and younger. 

Anyway, it's an interesting element, but I don't know if its super dramatic. Maybe notable. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 23, 2021, 12:08:09 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 23, 2021, 11:54:29 AM

"Gentlemen. You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"

:)

We don't talk about that movie enough. It's super weird, but hilarious 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 23, 2021, 12:09:28 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 23, 2021, 11:49:37 AM

How dare you have a well thought out plan,possess professional accrued skills coupled with due diligence and have the gall to implement them,why I never.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DpMwDgxC-I

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 23, 2021, 12:10:03 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 23, 2021, 11:43:49 AM

It's one of my great weaknesses. I like having civil conversation. It's in fact why I come here. Because in a world where people meander about deciding to say things because they'll get some jollies from making people mad, this place is a nice receive. Was, anyway.

Now run along, do some meth and sample the child brides like you South Utah folks do.

Not that at all. Fro? He's fun to troll because he is a troll, and he's the best kind of troll; one that can dish it, but he can't take it.

You? More like shooting fish in a barrel. We both know that California isn't going anywhere. We are stuck with them until they turn us into a third world country. So you already won this "debate" without having to say a word. Yet you got your knickers in a knot over the mere suggestion that was clearly made in jest. Wishful thinking. And you did that in spite of the fact that you are currently an East Coast resident who is probably from Wisconsin initially. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 23, 2021, 12:18:26 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 22, 2021, 10:53:59 PM

Well Alec Baldwin might accidentally rack up a few kills, but at least half of those are bound to be friendly fire.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/247868614_10223109648083112_8594456253930492626_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Uiq3-5MIaTEAX9Ei20f&tn=_MnT8OkIfzNoswba&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=55f83d0675a4c5a42633a5c2ed488047&oe=61790D37)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 23, 2021, 12:24:39 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 23, 2021, 12:10:03 PM

Not that at all. Fro? He's fun to troll because he is a troll, and he's the best kind of troll; one that can dish it, but he can't take it.

You? More like shooting fish in a barrel. We both know that California isn't going anywhere. We are stuck with them until they turn us into a third world country. So you already won this "debate" without having to say a word. Yet you got your knickers in a knot over the mere suggestion that was clearly made in jest. Wishful thinking. And you did that in spite of the fact that you are currently an East Coast resident who is probably from Wisconsin initially.

I am. I know it. I like good conversation and people when they don't spout anti-american trash. That's my thing. More earnestness than should happen on the web. I shouldn't let it get to me, and just be happy you hopped off your child bride long enough to post. 

(The irony is I really think people should leave California. Mostly because I'd like to go back, because I really like a lot of this country and because as an econ major, I think price should be a big determining factor.  But alas, it's just too good a state, and people keep wanting to be there despite the economic insanity of it. It's where I'm from, not Wisconsin)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2021, 12:25:18 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 23, 2021, 12:10:03 PM

Not that at all. Fro? He's fun to troll because he is a troll, and he's the best kind of troll; one that can dish it, but he can't take it.

You? More like shooting fish in a barrel. We both know that California isn't going anywhere. We are stuck with them until they turn us into a third world country. So you already won this "debate" without having to say a word. Yet you got your knickers in a knot over the mere suggestion that was clearly made in jest. Wishful thinking. And you did that in spite of the fact that you are currently an East Coast resident who is probably from Wisconsin initially.

BaB is from the SF Bay area.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 23, 2021, 12:34:56 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2021, 12:25:18 PM

BaB is from the SF Bay area.

Interestingly, there was a point where I was talking with an ex about parents when they start losing independence (she had a plan that was frankly kind of insane and should've been a sign that it might not go the full long term which I'd share if anyone cared), and that turned to asking my parents their thoughts. The answer was basically, whichever kid was the most geographically settled, they'd find an old folks home and move there.

At the time, there was something vaguely funny to me about my family just being like "yeah, if it comes to it, we'll depart the bay area and live in the south." There was something kind of calming that it wasn't a hill they were gonna figuratively die on.

(Then my mom explained "but that only really happens when something catastrophic happens or one of us dies" which was both calming and not calming at the same time)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 23, 2021, 12:38:02 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 23, 2021, 12:24:39 PM

I am. I know it. I like good conversation and people when they don't spout anti-american trash. That's my thing. More earnestness than should happen on the web. I shouldn't let it get to me, and just be happy you hopped off your child bride long enough to post.

(The irony is I really think people should leave California. Mostly because I'd like to go back, because I really like a lot of this country and because as an econ major, I think price should be a big determining factor.  But alas, it's just too good a state, and people keep wanting to be there despite the economic insanity of it. It's where I'm from, not Wisconsin)

So now I only have one child bride?
Good to know.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 23, 2021, 12:38:48 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 23, 2021, 11:41:26 AM

Progress isn't opening the gates and leaving everyone eat for free unchecked. 

No one said it is.  You're inventing a talking point.

Conservatives are FAR, RADICALLY too worried about the strain the poor and needy cause compared to the corporations.  I've never seen a poor person export a job to India.  I've never seen them hold a half dozen states financially hostage in hopes of getting my next big distribution center.  The subsidies of self-described "succcessful" companies is heinous.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 23, 2021, 12:39:24 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 23, 2021, 12:38:02 PM

So now I only have one child bride?
Good to know.

Hillary ate the other one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 23, 2021, 12:44:02 PM

Oven died on Wednesday night. The thermostat stuck open, so when I tried to turn off the oven at the end of the night it wouldn't budge. I had to turn off the gas supply and unplug the oven to get it turned off. Which means that not only can I not use the oven--I can't use the stove either. 

Property management company sent out a repairman to look at it, and the quote for a repair is so high that it makes more sense to replace the 18-year-old oven at this point. Which is probably a 2-3 week wait, unless I swim out into Long Beach Harbor and pirate a container ship and unload it myself. 

It's a good thing that I have three grills (two which can be used as ovens), an induction burner, a griddle, two sous vides, and a [gasp] microwave.

I think I'm gonna go through a lot of charcoal and Traeger pellets in the next few weeks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 23, 2021, 12:50:44 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 23, 2021, 12:07:38 PM

Well, I get that. But all 5 million old Florida folks aren't from out of state. And all nearly 6 million Californians older than 65 aren't from in-state either. And assuming the rates are roughly average (I know different states pay out different amounts and there are a bunch of other factors, but I couldn't find the raw data there), any contributions coming out of a state like Ca. are despite a larger payout than the one going to Florida for those benefits.

Now, the flipside, I guessed, would be that Floridians are working at a lower rates than Californians, since more of their population is older. However, and I just looked this up, it turns out 54.4 percent of Floridians are between 20-62 (my rough guess on working pop, adjusted for the data I could find. Can tweak if interest), but that number only jumps 57.3 in California, which has a difference of 8 percent in terms of old people, but it's counteracted by 5 percent in terms of 19 and younger.

Anyway, it's an interesting element, but I don't know if its super dramatic. Maybe notable.

BTW different "states" don't pay out different amounts. It's federal and purely based on how much you earned. 

I.e. if you've earned all your money in California, and then go to retire in AZ, you don't get a smaller social security check because you're in AZ than you would if you stayed in CA. 

However, that does mean that the average payout in California is likely to be higher than the average payout in Florida, because average incomes are higher. Which is exactly why California (and most of the other donor states) are donor states--their incomes are higher per capita so they pay more than their population's share of taxes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2021, 01:04:58 PM

We will both get the maximum payout, and we will start at 62. Not waiting for my money until I'm 70. F that. As it is, we'll NEVER see what we put in. Not even if we live to be 100 (not happening - liver says so).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 23, 2021, 01:06:40 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 23, 2021, 12:39:24 PM

Hillary ate the other one.

So she was mistakenly identified as one of Slick Willie's Epstein Island flings? That's a relief. I was afraid that Creepy Joe had sniffed her right up his nose.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 23, 2021, 01:08:35 PM

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FCTM8pYXMAMWyq5?format=jpg&name=large)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2021, 01:10:18 PM

Speaking of Joe...

Joe is building a massive wall...

Around his Delaware beach house...

Using $500,000 in taxpayer money...


Wall for me, but not for thee.


;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2021, 01:10:41 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 23, 2021, 01:08:35 PM

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FCTM8pYXMAMWyq5?format=jpg&name=large)

That's a good one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 23, 2021, 01:24:52 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 23, 2021, 12:38:48 PM

No one said it is.  You're inventing a talking point.

Conservatives are FAR, RADICALLY too worried about the strain the poor and needy cause compared to the corporations.  I've never seen a poor person export a job to India.  I've never seen them hold a half dozen states financially hostage in hopes of getting my next big distribution center.  The subsidies of self-described "succcessful" companies is heinous. 

why does it always have to be, the poor and needy compared to corporations?  Or illegals vs veterans. or jobs vs lives

can't an issue simply stand on it's own and be debated or decided?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 23, 2021, 01:29:46 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 23, 2021, 12:50:44 PM

BTW different "states" don't pay out different amounts. It's federal and purely based on how much you earned.

I.e. if you've earned all your money in California, and then go to retire in AZ, you don't get a smaller social security check because you're in AZ than you would if you stayed in CA.

However, that does mean that the average payout in California is likely to be higher than the average payout in Florida, because average incomes are higher. Which is exactly why California (and most of the other donor states) are donor states--their incomes are higher per capita so they pay more than their population's share of taxes.

OK. That's what I thought, but when I googled data, EVERY page was differences in state payouts. And it seemed a little random, so I figured it was a blind spot in my knowledge. Who am to argue with the power of SEO?

Good to have that clarified. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 23, 2021, 01:30:21 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 23, 2021, 01:08:35 PM

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FCTM8pYXMAMWyq5?format=jpg&name=large)

I feel bad laughing at that as hard as I did. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2021, 01:32:42 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 23, 2021, 01:30:21 PM

I feel bad laughing at that as hard as I did.

Me too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 23, 2021, 01:36:35 PM

I'm not admitting anything

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 23, 2021, 01:54:48 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 23, 2021, 01:24:52 PM

why does it always have to be, the poor and needy compared to corporations?  Or illegals vs veterans. or jobs vs lives

can't an issue simply stand on it's own and be debated or decided?

You're right, it doesn't have to be those extreme pitted against each other.  But the GOP sets them up as you can't like/help/assist both, you have to pick one - and not only that - the one you don't pick is the enemy.  What is good for them is bad for the one you like.

It's a BS either/or over and over, and the masses fall for it over and over.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 23, 2021, 01:57:35 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2021, 01:10:18 PM

Speaking of Joe...

Joe is building a massive wall...

Around his Delaware beach house...

Using $500,000 in taxpayer money...


Wall for me, but not for thee.


;)

Seriously,I'd say what I'm thinking but it would lead to my arrest,not doing that during football season

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 23, 2021, 02:07:58 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2021, 01:10:18 PM

Speaking of Joe...

Joe is building a massive wall...

Around his Delaware beach house...

Using $500,000 in taxpayer money...


Wall for me, but not for thee.


;)

The proper purpose of walls, to keep people out of your house, not to keep them out of your country. Joe must have gone to wall school

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 23, 2021, 02:09:17 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 23, 2021, 12:38:48 PM

No one said it is.  You're inventing a talking point.

Conservatives are FAR, RADICALLY too worried about the strain the poor and needy cause compared to the corporations.  I've never seen a poor person export a job to India.  I've never seen them hold a half dozen states financially hostage in hopes of getting my next big distribution center.  The subsidies of self-described "succcessful" companies is heinous. 

Taking people in enmasse is not progress have someone proof read your responses :character0029:.I'm pretty close with some teachers who can do that for you,shoot send me a PM 🤣.Stop acting like everyone crashing the gates is a victim,follow protocol when entering a sovereign nation

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 23, 2021, 02:12:43 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 23, 2021, 02:09:17 PM

Taking people in enmasse is not progress have someone proof read your responses :character0029:.I'm pretty close with some teachers who can do that for you,shoot send me a PM 🤣.Stop acting like everyone crashing the gates is a victim,follow protocol when entering a sovereign nation

Again, you're inventing a point I did not make. 
If I didn't know any better, I'd think you weren't interested in having an actual conversation.
(https://i.imgur.com/O89vz4Q.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 23, 2021, 02:17:19 PM

Again unchecked Enmasse is not progress,you picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 23, 2021, 03:02:11 PM

You've inserted an important word that changes my point.  I'm not going to bother with you, as you're a dishonest interlocutor.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 23, 2021, 03:35:08 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 23, 2021, 03:02:11 PM

You've inserted an important word that changes my point.  I'm not going to bother with you, as you're a dishonest interlocutor. 

I'm dishonest?scuse the pigs while the hogs eat

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 23, 2021, 04:22:31 PM

Kind of impressive that the opposition to the Establishment have elevated themselves in just a few short years from a bunch of uneducated trailer trash voting against their best financial interests, to a bunch of rich White guys who only care about money. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 23, 2021, 05:16:54 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 23, 2021, 04:22:31 PM

Kind of impressive that the opposition to the Establishment have elevated themselves in just a few short years from a bunch of uneducated trailer trash voting against their best financial interests, to a bunch of rich White guys who only care about money.

Speaking in extremes again, lol.  It's like you can't stop yourself.

The rich white guys who only care about money trick the uneducated trailer trash to vote against their best financial interests, and have been for years.  They dupe them with ideology and naming every horrific idea something vaguely patriotic and nice-sounding.  

It's blatant and obvious....sad and ugly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 23, 2021, 05:30:24 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 23, 2021, 05:16:54 PM

Speaking in extremes again, lol.  It's like you can't stop yourself.

The rich white guys who only care about money trick the uneducated trailer trash to vote against their best financial interests, and have been for years.  They dupe them with ideology and naming every horrific idea something vaguely patriotic and nice-sounding. 

It's blatant and obvious....sad and ugly.

Thanks, it is always fun to watxh the Establishment Whores try to make sense of the Establishment's contradicting messages. Impressive mental gymnastics, right there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 23, 2021, 06:56:29 PM

I'm pretty sure I can caricature voters on both sides with sweeping generalizations favorable to neither, but it largely would be a sweeping generalization.

I know a fair number of people vote for party, regardless of who happens to be running.  It's easier that way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 24, 2021, 09:26:51 AM

We had a concert last night, got back in time to watch the Bravos win.  They featured Midori, a violinist of some note, ha, playing the Tchaikovsky.  It was impressive.  She's a tiny woman and plays fiercely, with her eyes closed.  I feared her bow would break.

Violin bows can cost tens of thousands of dollars, don't ask me why.

We had to show our vax card to get in, masks required, etc., sat elbow to elbow, it was 90% capacity.  Lady next to me informed me she was coughing a bit but had three vaxes.  The other lady was my wife.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 24, 2021, 09:51:47 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 23, 2021, 05:16:54 PM

It's blatant and obvious....sad and ugly.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 24, 2021, 09:55:45 AM

Few things in life are really blatant and obvious, hardly a one is in politics.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 24, 2021, 11:54:47 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 23, 2021, 06:56:29 PM

I'm pretty sure I can caricature voters on both sides with sweeping generalizations favorable to neither, but it largely would be a sweeping generalization.

I know a fair number of people vote for party, regardless of who happens to be running.  It's easier that way.

8 out of 10 people, yes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 24, 2021, 12:01:01 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 24, 2021, 09:51:47 AM

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill

No one tries to change my mind, all they do is poo-poo and name-call.
And I'm not changing the subject because this is important.  40% of the country (in this particular situation) is being duped, and while they'll never have ideologies aligned with mine (AND THAT'S OKAY), I at least want them to look at things without the veil over their eyes.

If people are going to make a bad decision (for themselves), I simply want them to do it with full knowledge of what's actually happening.  My entire extended family is far-right Trumpistan rural southern folks.  And I love them.  And they're the uncool kids duped into being told they can come to the cool kids party (by the uber-wealthy-led GOP) but they show up and are never let inside the house.  And instead of getting frustrated or mad and looking around for another party, they're inexplicably spending their time mowing the grass outside the party and trimming the hedges and telling anyone passing by how great the people inside the house are.  It's what the kids online call being a "simp."  

It defies reason.  All I want is for people to act reasonably.  But that's so far gone that all there is to do is keep pointing out what's happening.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 24, 2021, 12:24:54 PM

as long as you understand, ........... the far-left urban folks are ALSO the uncool kids duped into being told they can come to the cool kids party (by the uber-wealthy-led DEM) but they show up and are never let inside the house.  And instead of getting frustrated or mad and looking around for another party, they're inexplicably spending their time mowing the grass outside the party and trimming the hedges and telling anyone passing by how great the people inside the house are.  It's what the kids online call being a "simp." 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 24, 2021, 12:47:55 PM

I'd say 80% of the country is being "duped" when it comes to politics, on both sides.

Of course a partisan is going to claim it not his half, but the other half.

It's entirely possible BOTH options being provided range from bad to worse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 24, 2021, 12:57:08 PM

It's entirely possible BOTH options being provided range from bad to worse.

this is my take, both options are worse than bad

and one option is not a percent or two better than the other option

both options are the same option

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 24, 2021, 01:01:37 PM

I tend to chuckle when someone talks to me about how wonderful their side is and how awful the other side is.  It's predictable of course.  The other side is a bunch of "woke" over educated unrealistic communists, or uneducated racist red necks who have no clue what's in their best interest.

Ask a Florida fan about your typical Bulldog fan and you get the same sort of response.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 24, 2021, 01:09:37 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 24, 2021, 12:24:54 PM

as long as you understand, ........... the far-left urban folks are ALSO the uncool kids duped into being told they can come to the cool kids party (by the uber-wealthy-led DEM) but they show up and are never let inside the house.  And instead of getting frustrated or mad and looking around for another party, they're inexplicably spending their time mowing the grass outside the party and trimming the hedges and telling anyone passing by how great the people inside the house are.  It's what the kids online call being a "simp." 

This may very well be true, but since I don't have firsthand experience with this, I don't want to talk out of my ass.
Could you provide some specifics?  Is it equally as widespread?  Has the far left taken over their party?  Are there as many anti-vaxxers on the far left?  Do liberals tend to vote against their own financial self-interest? 
.
I could go on a tangent here and say the worst modern thing about past slavery is the instillation of Christianity into black culture.  But then most of your panties will get in a bunch and you won't understand the connection.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 24, 2021, 01:13:14 PM

The irony here is that Fro is a poor White male who obediently carries water for the White Liberal elitist ruling class. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 24, 2021, 01:14:15 PM

What Do the Lefty Anti-Vaxxers Do Now? - The Atlantic (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/what-do-lefty-anti-vaxxers-do-now/620092/)

It’s shocking to see so many leftwingers lured to the far right by conspiracy theories | George Monbiot | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/22/leftwingers-far-right-conspiracy-theories-anti-vaxxers-power)

Anti-vaccination beliefs don't follow the usual political polarization (theconversation.com) (https://theconversation.com/anti-vaccination-beliefs-dont-follow-the-usual-political-polarization-81001)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 24, 2021, 01:17:40 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 24, 2021, 01:01:37 PM

I tend to chuckle when someone talks to me about how wonderful their side is and how awful the other side is.  It's predictable of course.  The other side is a bunch of "woke" over educated unrealistic communists, or uneducated racist red necks who have no clue what's in their best interest.

Ask a Florida fan about your typical Bulldog fan and you get the same sort of response.

LOCK THE THREAD

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 24, 2021, 01:18:03 PM

As to whether liberals or conservatives are now more likely to be opposed to vaccination, some researchers (https://books.google.com/books?id=dJaA7aN6GdAC&source=gbs_navlinks_s) have suggested that, while anti-vaccination beliefs have spread to libertarians on the right, the anti-vaccination movement originates and finds its strongest support in the political left. A later article (http://www.realclearscience.com/journal_club/2014/10/20/are_liberals_or_conservatives_more_anti-vaccine_108905.html) by the same researchers similarly argues that Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) evidence shows that states that voted for Obama in 2012 have higher rates of nonmedical vaccination exemptions.

Yet, other research suggests that it is in fact conservatives who are more likely to believe that vaccines cause autism (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2015/03/01/conservatives-are-more-likely-to-believe-that-vaccines-cause-autism/?utm_term=.df5ed1a784d2), that it is liberals who are more likely to endorse pro-vaccination statements (http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0158382) and that the more strongly someone identifies with the Republican Party, the more likely he or she is to have a negative opinion (https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2386034) of vaccination.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 24, 2021, 01:30:50 PM

"some research" vs "other research"


Even writing the article you clipped that from is irresponsible.  Reporting out on "what the research says" shouldn't occur until the research has come to a conclusion.  
This need-it-now culture we have is bastardizing everything.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 24, 2021, 01:32:12 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 24, 2021, 01:14:15 PM

What Do the Lefty Anti-Vaxxers Do Now? - The Atlantic (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/what-do-lefty-anti-vaxxers-do-now/620092/)

It’s shocking to see so many leftwingers lured to the far right by conspiracy theories | George Monbiot | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/22/leftwingers-far-right-conspiracy-theories-anti-vaxxers-power)

Anti-vaccination beliefs don't follow the usual political polarization (theconversation.com) (https://theconversation.com/anti-vaccination-beliefs-dont-follow-the-usual-political-polarization-81001)

Thanks for taking the 3 minutes to google search 3 inconclusive articles.....I guess?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 24, 2021, 01:34:52 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 24, 2021, 01:13:14 PM

The irony here is that Fro is a poor White male who obediently carries water for the White Liberal elitist ruling class.

It doesn't matter how many times you post it, it doesn't make it true.  
Both parties have left the arena of prudence at warp speeds......it's just that one of them did it first and is distancing itself at a faster rate.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 24, 2021, 01:43:14 PM

it's just that one of them did it first and is distancing itself at a faster rate. 

tough to prove and nothing to hang your hat on

both parties, the same

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 24, 2021, 04:10:00 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 24, 2021, 01:32:12 PM

Thanks for taking the 3 minutes to google search 3 inconclusive articles.....I guess?

The articles clearly show that antivax sentiment is not somehow isolated with the right.

Unless you can't read.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 24, 2021, 04:18:17 PM

oh, the articles clearly show it, whether they are read or not

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 24, 2021, 07:03:50 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 24, 2021, 01:43:14 PM

it's just that one of them did it first and is distancing itself at a faster rate. 

tough to prove and nothing to hang your hat on

both parties, the same

That's the response from someone with a dog in the fight.  
If you took the time (you won't) to go back and watch old news, it's right there.  Journalists have done this and written articles about it (that you won't read).  


Used to be, news organizations, aside from it just being the right thing to do, thought if they provided erroneous, slanted news coverage, people would be outraged and stop watching.  Credibility gone.  News organization gone.
CNN wasn't some ethics professor....they just wanted to not be wrong, as they had a monopoly on the 24 hour news channel.  I guess a kind of monopoly, sure.  Then MSNBC and FN hop in the same year.  Competition.  Great!  Not great.

All 3 channels probably realized that all of them reporting the same news the same ways was going to lead to.....nothing, really.  CNN was top dog, because they were the original and employed people (as it turns out) on both sides of the isle.  Maybe they had the right mix, maybe people just harmlessly read the teleprompter to keep their jobs.  I don't know.

But Fox and Mr Murdock decided to do something.  Whether it was a experiment to get ratings or to just push an ideology, it doesn't really matter.  They said 'screw it' and did something different......report the same news with a conservative spin and fancy graphics.  Murdock happily did this and HMMM.....as with many things that work, it was great timing.  
Clinton impeached for lying.
Bush II as president.
American attacked by....whoever in the middle east.

Ding ding ding!
Now we can do what we're doing even harder.  And while we report the news with a spin, we will tell the viewer we DON'T spin, over and over, until they believe it.
Old president bad.  New president good.  Whatever middle east country bad (not that it was the one who attacked us).
Viewership up.  Up, up, up.

Who do we have reporting these slanted 'news' stories?  Let's extract the furthest right-learning people from our competition:  CNN.  Who's that?  How about Greta Van Sustren and Tucker Carlson?  MSNBC initially had shows for Michael Savage, Pat Buchanon, and Joe Scarborough.  They idiotically tried to be middle-ground as FN got more and more radical.

Anyone who wants to argue with the above, go invent some BS that says otherwise.  Yes, since FN decided to be slanted paid off in viewership, MSNBC did as well.  CNN has tried to avoid being obsolete.  But because FN revealed that WE THE PEOPLE don't give a shit about accurate, prudent journalism.  We care about confirmation bias and tribalism.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 24, 2021, 07:04:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 24, 2021, 04:10:00 PM

The articles clearly show that antivax sentiment is not somehow isolated with the right.

Unless you can't read.

Where did I say it was isolated with the right?  
Can you guys please stop combating shit I haven't put out there?!?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 24, 2021, 07:16:44 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 24, 2021, 01:09:37 PM

Are there as many anti-vaxxers on the far left? 

not sure about the ratio, but obviously you weren't suggesting the far left is pro-vax

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 24, 2021, 07:20:09 PM

I can't even imagine how much you'd have to turn your brain off in order to achieve Fro levels of indoctrination. 

You'd have to study Leftist dogma like a priest studies scripture. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 24, 2021, 10:41:23 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 24, 2021, 07:16:44 PM

not sure about the ratio, but obviously you weren't suggesting the far left is pro-vax

I didn't say anything about the far left and vaccinations because I wasn't talking about the far left.

How did the art of the conversation devolve to someone says something about a topic and the other person says "what about this totally opposite thing?!?"????
It's bizarre.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 24, 2021, 10:42:05 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 24, 2021, 07:20:09 PM

I can't even imagine how much you'd have to turn your brain off in order to achieve Fro levels of indoctrination.

You'd have to study Leftist dogma like a priest studies scripture.

Your posts lack substance and are repetitive.  Thus, you bring nothing to the conversation.  But please, keep posting, by all means!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 24, 2021, 10:49:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 24, 2021, 10:42:05 PM

Your posts lack substance and are repetitive.  Thus, you bring nothing to the conversation.  But please, keep posting, by all means!

Can I see your Antifa mask? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 24, 2021, 10:52:28 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 24, 2021, 01:09:37 PM

  Has the far left taken over their party?  Are there as many anti-vaxxers on the far left?  

so, this post has nothing to do with the far left or vaccines???

good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 24, 2021, 11:13:09 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 24, 2021, 10:52:28 PM

so, this post has nothing to do with the far left or vaccines???

good

I was asking a question.  You know, seeking an answer.

From one of those articles:
When we look at whether people think that vaccination should be mandatory or a parent’s choice, a different story emerges.

Now it is only the very conservative who are more likely to think that it should not be mandatory: they are twice as likely as moderates to think that it should be a parent’s choice. Liberals are now more likely to think vaccination should be required: Compared to moderates, liberals are 43.5 percent less likely to think it should be a parent’s choice and those who are very liberal are 14.2 percent less likely.

Anyway, I don't see a consensus to my question in the articles.  I doubt there is one.  
Yes, the hippy astrologists who think crystals do things and believe Jenny McCarthy are anti-vaxxers.  Yes, a lot of black people are anti-vax for historical reasons.  
But what's been the message of the Dem party the past 2 years?  What's been the message from the Reps?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 24, 2021, 11:15:28 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 24, 2021, 10:49:26 PM

Can I see your Antifa mask?

You're so weird.
I'm sorry 4 blocks of downtown Portland got taken over for a month.  
I don't have an antifa mask.  
I reluctantly wear a mask 7 hours a day while teaching, despite being vaccinated.  I don't like it, but I do it because I value those around me and my job security.  Even if it's a placebo, I'll do it.  Doing things in vain is part of life.  Ask any married person.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 25, 2021, 12:04:05 AM

he is a little weird

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 25, 2021, 12:46:20 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 24, 2021, 11:15:28 PM

You're so weird.
I'm sorry 4 blocks of downtown Portland got taken over for a month. 
I don't have an antifa mask. 
I reluctantly wear a mask 7 hours a day while teaching, despite being vaccinated.  I don't like it, but I do it because I value those around me and my job security.  Even if it's a placebo, I'll do it.  Doing things in vain is part of life.  Ask any married person. 

Doesn't the mask make it more difficult for your students to understand you, while you preach the exact same message as CNN or any mainstream politician? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 25, 2021, 07:15:01 AM

“But what's been the message of the Dem party the past 2 years?  What's been the message from the Reps?  “

2 years?  

Well from the beginning of 2020 to the beginning of 2021:

Dems:  -there won’t be an effective vaccine any time soon
- we shouldn’t assist Big Pharma in the development of a vaccine
- now that there is a vaccine, we don trust it and nether should you

Reps: there will be a vaccine, and soon
- we need to clear a path for big pharma both financially and by removing bureaucratic obstacles to speed approval 
- now that there is a vaccine, we need to expedite its rollout

Since 2021,

Dems: -everyone should be vaccinated , they work, they are safe and effective 
- please do not discuss treatments that reduce Covid symptoms- they are ineffective and conspiracies, disinformation 
- the unvaccinated are the root of all of our problems; supply chain issues, alarming inflation, rapidly rising gas and home heating costs, escalating crime in our big cities, the Afghanistan debacle, the crisis at our soothers border, and most especially the dropping approval rating of our vegetable- in- chief. 
-we need to force the vaccine on those who don’t want it.  We need mandates for government workers, large companies with government contracts-everyone. The only exception will be Congress, and those who rely on government relief for their food and income each month. And of course, the illegal immigrants we are transporting to various locations throughout the US under cover of darkness. 

REPs:
- we strongly encourage EVERYONE to get vaccinated.  It is safe and effective 
-we should NOT force people to get it, if it is as effective as we think it is, the vaccinated are protected 
-we should absolutely research any drug or treatment that can reduce the severity of symptoms, like Regeneron for example, which helps those who did not and will not get vaccinated, stay out of the hospital in many cases.  
- we should not be letting people flood across our borders who are not vaccinated and who have not been vetted for major criminal pasts, and who are now responsible for the largest volumes of synthetic fentanyl now crossing our borders-and in many states, the highest number of fentanyl OD deaths on record 
-if you are going to allow these record number of border crossings please at least be transparent about where you are moving these people to so the individual states can properly assist in addressing the obvious human needs as well as risks. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 25, 2021, 07:18:24 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 24, 2021, 11:13:09 PM

Anyway, I don't see a consensus to my question in the articles.  I doubt there is one. 
Yes, the hippy astrologists who think crystals do things and believe Jenny McCarthy are anti-vaxxers.  Yes, a lot of black people are anti-vax for historical reasons. 
But what's been the message of the Dem party the past 2 years?  What's been the message from the Reps? 

What's the message?


Biden Has Never Been Honest About the 'Trump Vaccines' | RealClearPolitics (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2021/09/14/biden_has_never_been_honest_about_the_trump_vaccines_146397.html#!)


That should come as no surprise. During the campaign, Biden did all he could to ensure that people would not trust what Democrats called the “Trump vaccines.” Biden openly expressed concern that a vaccine would be moved “quicker than the scientists think it should be moved” and that there was “enormous pressure” on the CDC and the FDA to approve it. Even left-leaning PolitiFact (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/23/tiktok-posts/biden-harris-doubted-trump-covid-19-vaccines-not-v/) has acknowledged that Biden raised “doubts about Trump’s trustworthiness, his ability to roll out the vaccines safely and the risk of political influence over vaccine development.”

Perhaps Biden supporters believed him. The media often characterizes vaccine resisters as Trump supporters, but African Americans (87% (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1184425/presidential-election-exit-polls-share-votes-ethnicity-us/) of whom voted for Biden) and Hispanics (66% (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1184425/presidential-election-exit-polls-share-votes-ethnicity-us/) for Biden) are more likely to be unvaccinated than any other racial or ethnic groups, according to (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/health-equity/vaccine-equity.html) the CDC.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 25, 2021, 07:25:21 AM

If your fiercely independent- never cared for, nor voted for, the last POTUS, don’t see anything appealing about EITHER party, but are not pleased with what is going on NOW, what label or tribe are you considered to be?  
 
Silly things which are common sense: 
-Like it seems reasonable to want everyone who wants to vote, to be able to do so EASILY, as long as they have been identified?
-want to welcome immigrants across our borders to fight for a better life, and recognize they can contribute greatly to our society and economy, but just want them checked out first to weed out those who clearly are bad based on past criminal behavior? And vaccinated, or hold them and vaccinated them?

You know, common sense stuff like that.   

Asking for a friend…

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 25, 2021, 08:30:59 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 25, 2021, 07:15:01 AM

REPs:
- we strongly encourage EVERYONE to get vaccinated.  It is safe and effective

Is this some kind of joke?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 25, 2021, 08:32:13 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 25, 2021, 07:18:24 AM

What's the message?


Biden Has Never Been Honest About the 'Trump Vaccines' | RealClearPolitics (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2021/09/14/biden_has_never_been_honest_about_the_trump_vaccines_146397.html#!)


That should come as no surprise. During the campaign, Biden did all he could to ensure that people would not trust what Democrats called the “Trump vaccines.” Biden openly expressed concern that a vaccine would be moved “quicker than the scientists think it should be moved” and that there was “enormous pressure” on the CDC and the FDA to approve it. Even left-leaning PolitiFact (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/23/tiktok-posts/biden-harris-doubted-trump-covid-19-vaccines-not-v/) has acknowledged that Biden raised “doubts about Trump’s trustworthiness, his ability to roll out the vaccines safely and the risk of political influence over vaccine development.”

Perhaps Biden supporters believed him. The media often characterizes vaccine resisters as Trump supporters, but African Americans (87% (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1184425/presidential-election-exit-polls-share-votes-ethnicity-us/) of whom voted for Biden) and Hispanics (66% (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1184425/presidential-election-exit-polls-share-votes-ethnicity-us/) for Biden) are more likely to be unvaccinated than any other racial or ethnic groups, according to (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/health-equity/vaccine-equity.html) the CDC.

You're glossing over the WHY.  On purpose.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 25, 2021, 08:36:57 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 25, 2021, 12:46:20 AM

Doesn't the mask make it more difficult for your students to understand you, while you preach the exact same message as CNN or any mainstream politician?

Why does the idea of me being a far left-winger give u such a hard-on?  

You understand that the Dem primaries came down to 4 people, 2 more moderate and 2 more liberal......and BIden was one of the 2 moderates.  You gathered that, right?  

But since he won, he's some radical liberal, because.....reasons!  
I teach my students to treat each other nicely, to try even if something's hard, and that I enjoy helping them.  And they can hear the message through my mask.
BB, you especially, have provided nothing of substance to anything I've posted.  Just "neener-neener" shit.  Be careful you don't lose your little golf-cart gang.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 25, 2021, 09:26:27 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 25, 2021, 08:30:59 AM

Is this some kind of joke?

Your the joke. 

facts that don’t agree with your narrative being you to an immediate freak out.

Here in Florida for example that’s all we heard or saw. Commercials from the governor, famous personalities, athletes and entertainers etc. begging people to get the vaccination and telling them it was effective and safe. Additionally the governor crafted partnerships with highly frequented and respected vendors like Publix for example to make the vaccine available and as many locations as possible.   Why can’t you just acknowledge that you don’t know what you’re talking about. 

Who is the one being “duped”.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 25, 2021, 09:29:29 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 25, 2021, 08:36:57 AM

Why does the idea of me being a far left-winger give u such a hard-on? 

You understand that the Dem primaries came down to 4 people, 2 more moderate and 2 more liberal......and BIden was one of the 2 moderates.  You gathered that, right? 

But since he won, he's some radical liberal, because.....reasons! 
I teach my students to treat each other nicely, to try even if something's hard, and that I enjoy helping them.  And they can hear the message through my mask.
BB, you especially, have provided nothing of substance to anything I've posted.  Just "neener-neener" shit.  Be careful you don't lose your little golf-cart gang.

That’s because every time someone presents you fax, in your face facts and data That don’t agree with your far left narrative, you can’t function anymore. You have no skills for persuasion and influence, just tantrums and denials. Just look up thread two or three posts to have proof

You should get a job at CNN, MSDNC,
Or The NY Times.  Your a perfect fit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 25, 2021, 09:37:21 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 25, 2021, 08:30:59 AM

Is this some kind of joke?

Hypocrite.  You can’t talk about fax but yet you accuse everyone else of not bringing fax. Here is another perfect example. That’s all you got out of that post was a grossly false narrative that you’re continuing to promote?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 25, 2021, 09:43:40 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 24, 2021, 10:42:05 PM

Your posts lack substance and are repetitive.  Thus, you bring nothing to the conversation.  But please, keep posting, by all means!

Pot, meet kettle.  

here is what makes current POTUS liberal as hell: what’s he is Doing- versus what he SAID he was going to do, and what is important. 
and these polling data are from a neutral source/ so don’t dismiss the messenger since nobody else will even report it.  

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/biden-polls-ignoring-voter-concerns-liz-peek

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 25, 2021, 09:44:00 AM

Heading to Publix today for the flu shot. Gonna try and talk them into a booster since we travel a lot starting next week.

Got the grill put together over the weekend. Thing is a monster.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 25, 2021, 09:52:48 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 25, 2021, 08:36:57 AM

Why does the idea of me being a far left-winger give u such a hard-on? 

You understand that the Dem primaries came down to 4 people, 2 more moderate and 2 more liberal......and BIden was one of the 2 moderates.  You gathered that, right? 

But since he won, he's some radical liberal, because.....reasons! 
I teach my students to treat each other nicely, to try even if something's hard, and that I enjoy helping them.  And they can hear the message through my mask.
BB, you especially, have provided nothing of substance to anything I've posted.  Just "neener-neener" shit.  Be careful you don't lose your little golf-cart gang.

Dance puppet dance. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 25, 2021, 09:56:34 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 25, 2021, 09:52:48 AM

Dance puppet dance.

😂😂😂😂

Its unreal.   The guy who is so aggrieved and calls us an echo chamber, has literally no ability of independent thought, and can’t acknowledge facts.   He has drank the kool aid and invented the recipe.   Why we waste our time on his constant political and twisted narrative is the only question left. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 25, 2021, 10:05:46 AM

Let's take it another direction. Time out, if you will. ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 25, 2021, 10:09:49 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 25, 2021, 10:05:46 AM

Let's take it another direction. Time out, if you will. ;)

I would like nothing better in fact I would like it to be permanent. But since he is allowed to post political stuff in this thread, and pretty much does it constantly, every once a while somebody hast to remind him That there are different opinions out there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 25, 2021, 10:18:52 AM

https://www.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/23537564-cc97-4bd5-bb2f-34ae68fc3fda

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 25, 2021, 10:27:30 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 25, 2021, 10:09:49 AM

I would like nothing better in fact I would like it to be permanent. But since he is allowed to post political stuff in this thread, and pretty much does it constantly, every once a while somebody hast to remind him That there are different opinions out there.

no one has to remind him of anything
it's easy if you practice a while

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 25, 2021, 10:29:12 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 25, 2021, 10:27:30 AM

no one has to remind him of anything
it's easy if you practice a while

We can agree to disagree on that. I do practice that 95% of the time. But as you can see he still feels he’s otherwise useful, fun and informative threads with political garbage. Sometimes it shut him up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 25, 2021, 10:31:17 AM

It's all good, but.. I'll disagree that one of your "reminders" has ever shut him up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 25, 2021, 10:32:27 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 25, 2021, 10:31:17 AM

It's all good, but.. I'll disagree that one of your "reminders" has ever shut him up

😂😂😂😂.  You are correct sir!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 25, 2021, 10:34:53 AM

Y'all suck.

If I knew how to use my mod powers to obliterate this nonsense I'd seriously consider it. 

Feel free to debate whether that's more of a Republican or a Democrat thing to do. 



I will say y'all suck a lot less than most corners of the internet.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 25, 2021, 10:38:29 AM

you need some practice with your powers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 25, 2021, 10:44:14 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 25, 2021, 10:38:29 AM

you need some practice with your powers

It's just as well.  With great power comes great responsibility, and I don't want anymore great responsibility.  

I think Drew made me a mod as a joke because he knew I'd never learn his setup.  I can't even figure out how to change my title.  "Global Moderator....Starter" .....lame.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 25, 2021, 10:46:59 AM

I'd guess Starter refers to number of posts

hence why I'm in the hall

Global moderator should be able to edit easily

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 25, 2021, 10:51:49 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 25, 2021, 10:34:53 AM

Y'all suck.

If I knew how to use my mod powers to obliterate this nonsense I'd seriously consider it. 

Feel free to debate whether that's more of a Republican or a Democrat thing to do. 



I will say y'all suck a lot less than most corners of the internet. 

B1G. It just means more.

Sucking sucks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 25, 2021, 10:54:53 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 25, 2021, 10:46:59 AM

I'd guess Starter refers to number of posts

Yeah, well, if my posts carried over from the old board, I have like Eleventy Billion posts.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 25, 2021, 10:55:56 AM

if, you'd hang out here more often.....?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 25, 2021, 11:01:48 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 25, 2021, 10:54:53 AM

Yeah, well, if my posts carried over from the old board, I have like Eleventy Billion posts. 

I think @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) was the grand champion of posts. Probably still is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 25, 2021, 11:08:16 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 25, 2021, 10:51:49 AM

Sucking sucks.

Hey, you can't talk about Florida State like that.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 25, 2021, 11:20:35 AM

that's utee's line

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 25, 2021, 11:34:16 AM

Thank you for your support - that he stole from bartles & james

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 25, 2021, 11:42:51 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 25, 2021, 10:29:12 AM

We can agree to disagree on that. I do practice that 95% of the time. But as you can see he still feels he’s otherwise useful, fun and informative threads with political garbage. Sometimes it shut him up.

There's no point in arguing with a brick wall. Fro types are only useful for mock and ridicule, pointing and laughing. 

Engaging him otherwise is futile. Like wrestling a pig. Even if you "win" you are completely covered in $#!+ by the end of it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 25, 2021, 11:44:18 AM

Decided not to wade into your political crap.

New coffee table arrives today. Excited about it, but hoping it's not too big for the room. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 25, 2021, 11:46:41 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 25, 2021, 11:44:18 AM

Decided not to wade into your political crap.

New coffee table arrives today. Excited about it, but hoping it's not too big for the room.

More room to put political crap on,can't you see that ?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 25, 2021, 11:48:10 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 25, 2021, 11:44:18 AM

Decided not to wade into your political crap.

New coffee table arrives today. Excited about it, but hoping it's not too big for the room.

That’s fun! How big we taking. 

Im trying to decide if I have enough room between the TV and the couch to justify a coffee table. It may be a little more than 4 feet, which feels very in-between. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 25, 2021, 11:52:48 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 25, 2021, 11:48:10 AM

That’s fun! How big we taking.

Im trying to decide if I have enough room between the TV and the couch to justify a coffee table. It may be a little more than 4 feet, which feels very in-between.

Current coffee table is 36" square. Not a great dimension for a small room and a 3-seat couch. 

New one is 52x28. I initially didn't want this one because of the size, and preferred one that we saw on Wayfair that was only 48x24. But we saw this one in person (Living Spaces) and liked it, and I started delving into the specs and reviews of the Wayfair table and it looked like a steaming pile of political crap, materials/construction wise. 

I have about 8 1/2 feet between the couch and the fireplace; TV mounted above the mantle. But it's not the 28" dimension that worries me, it's more that there won't be quite as much of a walkway because of how wide it is AND being 28" depth.

4 feet between you and the TV? You live in an RV? :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 25, 2021, 12:19:13 PM

my coffee table is 28x48 with a hinged top that rotates up to chin height for dining - great for snacks/gameday food and drinks if I have a few over to watch sports

if I sit behind the table it's about 6 feet from the TV - I rarely sit there

my computer table were I'm sitting currently and where I live 98% of the time is 4 feet from my 65" TV

with my bad eyes I can easily see the game and post crap here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 25, 2021, 12:21:37 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 25, 2021, 11:48:10 AM

That’s fun! How big we taking.

Im trying to decide if I have enough room between the TV and the couch to justify a coffee table. It may be a little more than 4 feet, which feels very in-between.

Just be careful toes/shins could be casualties when you wake up @ 3 A.M. to go to bed or take a leak

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 25, 2021, 12:23:57 PM

I rarely sleep/nap in the recliner

for many reasons

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 25, 2021, 12:25:07 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 25, 2021, 12:19:13 PM

my computer table were I'm sitting currently and where I live 98% of the time is 4 feet from my 65" TV

with my bad eyes I can easily see the game and post crap here

As you know we all depend on that insightful narrative,so it's important you get a good look

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 25, 2021, 12:26:38 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 25, 2021, 12:23:57 PM

I rarely sleep/nap in the recliner

for many reasons

Get my best shut eye there,thinking of splurging on an Amish made one down the road,problem is I bought the 4 poster bed there to

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 25, 2021, 01:43:04 PM

(https://static.rcwilley.com/products/110389514/Dark-Walnut-Brown-Coffee-Table-with-Foosball---Diletta-rcwilley-image1~800.jpg?r=11)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 25, 2021, 01:44:29 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 25, 2021, 01:43:04 PM

(https://static.rcwilley.com/products/110389514/Dark-Walnut-Brown-Coffee-Table-with-Foosball---Diletta-rcwilley-image1~800.jpg?r=11)

Is this a Jeopardy answer?

Q. What is what you get for the man-child in your life who has everything?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 25, 2021, 01:50:23 PM

That clear top will be transparent for perhaps 3hrs after the beer goggles come out or the kids use it for an afternoon

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 25, 2021, 01:55:07 PM

Texas Tech fires HC Matt Wells

https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/mac-engel/article255267471.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 25, 2021, 01:56:47 PM

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=kramer+coffee+table&t=iphone&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DdE5ROl2YPbs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 25, 2021, 02:35:06 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 25, 2021, 01:43:04 PM

(https://static.rcwilley.com/products/110389514/Dark-Walnut-Brown-Coffee-Table-with-Foosball---Diletta-rcwilley-image1~800.jpg?r=11)

My lash house came with a glass coffee table. I worried nearly daily about getting tipsy and falling through it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 25, 2021, 02:36:44 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 25, 2021, 11:52:48 AM

Current coffee table is 36" square. Not a great dimension for a small room and a 3-seat couch.

New one is 52x28. I initially didn't want this one because of the size, and preferred one that we saw on Wayfair that was only 48x24. But we saw this one in person (Living Spaces) and liked it, and I started delving into the specs and reviews of the Wayfair table and it looked like a steaming pile of political crap, materials/construction wise.

I have about 8 1/2 feet between the couch and the fireplace; TV mounted above the mantle. But it's not the 28" dimension that worries me, it's more that there won't be quite as much of a walkway because of how wide it is AND being 28" depth.

4 feet between you and the TV? You live in an RV? :57:

A small one bedroom apt. I wanted to live in a walkable place that wasn’t a bad drive from work. After too much apartment hunting, this shoebox seemed fine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 25, 2021, 04:13:56 PM

I'm ditching the king-size and getting an adjustable full-size bed.  It'll help with my snoring and make room for a big, comfy chair. 
I didn't realize how much I used the thick armrest of my sofa I had to get rid of.

And now that it's not 100+ everyday, I got a hammock.  

Fun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 25, 2021, 04:30:06 PM

Cal King is the only thing for me.

I'm 77" tall. An Eastern [traditional] King is 76" long. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 25, 2021, 04:35:05 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 25, 2021, 04:30:06 PM

Cal King is the only thing for me.

I'm 77" tall. An Eastern [traditional] King is 76" long.

76" wide, 80 inches long

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 25, 2021, 04:38:10 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 25, 2021, 04:30:06 PM

Cal King is the only thing for me.

I'm 77" tall. An Eastern [traditional] King is 76" long.

Difference between an "EW" and an "AH"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 25, 2021, 05:12:33 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 25, 2021, 04:35:05 PM

76" wide, 80 inches long

I knew it was 80x76, but I thought it was the other way... 80 wide and 76 long. 

Thanks for the correction. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 25, 2021, 05:12:48 PM

Love the memory foam mattress. It's got several levels and the top is a cooling gel layer.

Didn't like the price tag.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 25, 2021, 05:20:42 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 25, 2021, 05:12:33 PM

I knew it was 80x76, but I thought it was the other way... 80 wide and 76 long.

Thanks for the correction.

Well, I suppose it's dimensions depend on how you rotate it. But I checked because I'm just a couple inches shorter than you and never thought it was close to being short.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 25, 2021, 05:23:07 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 25, 2021, 05:20:42 PM

Well, I suppose it's dimensions depend on how you rotate it. But I checked because I'm just a couple inches shorter than you and never thought it was close to being short.

Yeah, but King beds will all be 80" long. And sheets will be made for that orientation, and bed skirts, and the like. So even if you had a simple traditional bed frame that you can easily rotate, without headboard/etc, your sheets would still be wrong.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 25, 2021, 05:29:43 PM

I’m 6’3, 235.  My woman is 5’10 140

My German Shepard - BRUTUS- weighs 100, and my rescue dog ( golden terrier mix) is 35lbs.

There is no bed big enough. 😂

On a good night I get a sliver of the king size bed. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 25, 2021, 05:34:59 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 25, 2021, 05:23:07 PM

Yeah, but King beds will all be 80" long. And sheets will be made for that orientation, and bed skirts, and the like. So even if you had a simple traditional bed frame that you can easily rotate, without headboard/etc, your sheets would still be wrong.

Well I wouldn't want your bed skirt to be out of place :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 25, 2021, 06:53:04 PM

We bought a foam mattress, Tempurpedic, a few years back, it's excellent.  It's a king with a split and elevation head and foot.  I really miss it when we travel.  I think it was around $4500.  I had an impression they were soft, but this one is not at all, but it sure is comfortable.

I see there are a ton of brands out today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 25, 2021, 06:58:26 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 25, 2021, 05:34:59 PM

Well I wouldn't want your bed skirt to be out of place :)

My wife wants to change the bedding... Again. 

Seems to me it's still working for its intended purpose. All I care about is that we HAVE bedding. I'm not even worried whether it matches--because I'm unable to tell what does or doesn't match. A fact that I'm reminded of nearly daily. "That doesn't match. Go change."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 25, 2021, 07:03:47 PM

How Much Faster Can Slick Tires Make A Modest Performance Car? | Carscoops (https://www.carscoops.com/2021/10/how-much-faster-can-slick-tires-make-a-modest-performance-car/#Echobox=1635136522)

Pretty interesting, to me, it made a difference.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 25, 2021, 07:04:27 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 25, 2021, 06:58:26 PM

My wife wants to change the bedding... Again.

Seems to me it's still working for its intended purpose. All I care about is that we HAVE bedding. I'm not even worried whether it matches--because I'm unable to tell what does or doesn't match. A fact that I'm reminded of nearly daily. "That doesn't match. Go change."

😂😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 25, 2021, 07:06:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 25, 2021, 06:53:04 PM

We bought a foam mattress, Tempurpedic, a few years back, it's excellent.  It's a king with a split and elevation head and foot.  I really miss it when we travel.  I think it was around $4500.  I had an impression they were soft, but this one is not at all, but it sure is comfortable.

I see there are a ton of brands out today.

We have a Tempur-Pedic.  Pretty comfortable but hot as hell.  That thing traps heat like nothing I've ever seen.  I have to freeze the rest of the house so I can get by at night.  Now we have an Australian Shepherd that sleeps with us and it's almost unbearable.  Waiting for the day she figures out it's cooler on the floor than up there like our other Aussie.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 25, 2021, 07:07:06 PM

I have not had any heat issue.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 25, 2021, 07:07:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 25, 2021, 07:03:47 PM

How Much Faster Can Slick Tires Make A Modest Performance Car? | Carscoops (https://www.carscoops.com/2021/10/how-much-faster-can-slick-tires-make-a-modest-performance-car/#Echobox=1635136522)

Pretty interesting, to me, it made a difference.

Not the least bit surprising.    On a timed track with curves ( any kind of road course), the right tires are everything.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 25, 2021, 07:16:45 PM

Yup, especially with higher hp/torque.  I was surprised it made as much difference in a fairly modestly powered hot hatch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 25, 2021, 07:17:21 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 25, 2021, 07:07:13 PM

Not the least bit surprising.    On a timed track with curves ( any kind of road course), the right tires are everything. 

Left tires, not so much?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 25, 2021, 07:32:47 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 25, 2021, 07:03:47 PM

How Much Faster Can Slick Tires Make A Modest Performance Car? | Carscoops (https://www.carscoops.com/2021/10/how-much-faster-can-slick-tires-make-a-modest-performance-car/#Echobox=1635136522)

Pretty interesting, to me, it made a difference.

Not surprising to me that it would make a difference.

I wouldn't think that slicks would make a huge improvement in 0-60 time or something like that, for a car that doesn't produce enough power to really burn 'em up anyway.

But in a track setting, you're balancing the grip load of braking and lateral grip on corner entry, then have lateral grip in the corner, and then balancing the grip load of acceleration and lateral grip on corner exit.

So even a car that isn't going to be regularly breaking the tires loose under straight-line acceleration is now able to brake later into a corner, hold a higher corner speed, and accelerate earlier out. 

That's HUGE. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 25, 2021, 08:21:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 25, 2021, 07:03:47 PM

How Much Faster Can Slick Tires Make A Modest Performance Car? | Carscoops (https://www.carscoops.com/2021/10/how-much-faster-can-slick-tires-make-a-modest-performance-car/#Echobox=1635136522)

Pretty interesting, to me, it made a difference.

follow the science, or in this case the physics 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 25, 2021, 09:44:42 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 25, 2021, 08:21:05 PM

follow the science, or in this case the physics

....unless it conflicts with your ideology.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 25, 2021, 09:58:14 PM

drag racing and 0-60 times don't seem to be as decisive 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 25, 2021, 10:10:35 PM

Divisive?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 25, 2021, 10:11:01 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/LCIKNhh.jpg)
Same for B1G, of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 25, 2021, 10:31:04 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 25, 2021, 10:10:35 PM

Divisive? 

I could blame spell checker, but.... that would be deceitful

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 26, 2021, 07:53:53 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 25, 2021, 07:06:34 PM

We have a Tempur-Pedic.  Pretty comfortable but hot as hell.  That thing traps heat like nothing I've ever seen.  I have to freeze the rest of the house so I can get by at night.  Now we have an Australian Shepherd that sleeps with us and it's almost unbearable.  Waiting for the day she figures out it's cooler on the floor than up there like our other Aussie. 

We used to have one of those hot boxes. We took it to the harbor and cut it to fit the boat. Worked great there, because boat electric is free and it was easy to keep it 68 inside.

You can go to Kohl's (or wherever) and get a cooling gel topper for yours. They really work.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 26, 2021, 08:37:22 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 25, 2021, 05:34:59 PM

Well I wouldn't want your bed skirt to be out of place :)

Someone should be slapped for noticing........or being in there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 26, 2021, 08:38:25 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 25, 2021, 05:29:43 PM

I’m 6’3, 235.  My woman is 5’10 140

My German Shepard - BRUTUS- weighs 100, and my rescue dog ( golden terrier mix) is 35lbs.

There is no bed big enough. 😂

On a good night I get a sliver of the king size bed.

So no room for the rescue Woman?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 26, 2021, 08:43:54 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 25, 2021, 05:29:43 PM

I’m 6’3, 235.  My woman is 5’10 140

My German Shepard - BRUTUS- weighs 100, and my rescue dog ( golden terrier mix) is 35lbs.

There is no bed big enough. 😂

On a good night I get a sliver of the king size bed.

(https://www.mattressinsider.com/wp-content/uploads/Alaskan-King-Bed-Mattress-2-1200x800.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 26, 2021, 08:47:39 AM

Always been a firm believer that kids and pets do not belong in the master bedroom.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 26, 2021, 10:55:31 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 26, 2021, 07:53:53 AM

We used to have one of those hot boxes. We took it to the harbor and cut it to fit the boat. Worked great there, because boat electric is free and it was easy to keep it 68 inside.

You can go to Kohl's (or wherever) and get a cooling gel topper for yours. They really work.

I've heard of them.  We're gonna have to try that out.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 26, 2021, 10:57:44 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 26, 2021, 08:47:39 AM

Always been a firm believer that kids and pets do not belong in the master bedroom.

I'm okay with the dog on the floor in our room.  Otherwise agree with you.  As for booting the new Aussie out of the bed, or both out of the room.....unlikely that Mrs. DeTiger will let me win that fight.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 26, 2021, 11:04:57 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 26, 2021, 08:47:39 AM

Always been a firm believer that kids and pets do not belong in the master bedroom.

I grew up I’m a house where the main TV a was in the master bedroom (well, the biggest bedroom). That gives it one kind of feel and makes it more central. I have friends who go TV in the master bedroom, none in the living room, which makes house sitting weird.

Personally, I want my living room and couch central and I want my bedroom to be a place I spend minimal time outside a couple things. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 26, 2021, 11:07:16 AM

yup, one TV in the living-room

no TV in the bedroom

no sleeping in the recliner in the living-room

separate activities

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 26, 2021, 11:17:22 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 26, 2021, 08:43:54 AM

(https://www.mattressinsider.com/wp-content/uploads/Alaskan-King-Bed-Mattress-2-1200x800.jpg)

That's a Kiddy Park attraction not a bed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 26, 2021, 11:18:15 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 26, 2021, 11:07:16 AM

no sleeping in the recliner in the living-room

Bull Shit ;D

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 26, 2021, 11:19:15 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 25, 2021, 10:11:01 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/LCIKNhh.jpg)

Since everybody is fired already, I don't see why I shouldn't just forget Saturdays and pretend the Bengals are LSU.  

What a win for the Bayou Bengals on Sunday!  It's weird that LSU plays on Sundays now, though.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 26, 2021, 11:33:24 AM

Highly recommend a "ladies only" policy for the Master Bedroom. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 26, 2021, 02:56:08 PM

Flex is having a misfire on cylinder #2... Time to get a new ignition coil for that cylinder, replace all the spark plugs, etc etc etc. 

There goes a good portion of my Saturday...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 26, 2021, 03:04:13 PM

2023 Chevy Corvette Z06 Brings 670 HP of Naturally Aspirated Fury (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38044152/2023-chevrolet-corvette-z06-revealed/?utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2sHYcdG6HDOtOxhfYPCc1nRo0AEhkqPDWxGPmIyX6-TOyKXAaRDFu-gPw)

2023 Corvette Z06: How Chevrolet Created the Most Powerful Naturally Aspirated V-8 Ever (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a38066796/2023-corvette-zo6-lt6-explainer/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&fbclid=IwAR2sHYcdG6HDOtOxhfYPCc1nRo0AEhkqPDWxGPmIyX6-TOyKXAaRDFu-gPw)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 26, 2021, 03:44:27 PM

impressive

especially the Z07

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 26, 2021, 03:46:08 PM

I find it interesting how Cadillac investing time and money in their Blackwing V8, and then barely used it, and now Corvette develops its own DOHC new V8 completely separately, all the while both are headed to electric down the road a bit.  I remain curious as to how fast EVs will penetrate the performance car market.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 26, 2021, 04:23:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 26, 2021, 03:46:08 PM

I find it interesting how Cadillac investing time and money in their Blackwing V8, and then barely used it, and now Corvette develops its own DOHC new V8 completely separately, all the while both are headed to electric down the road a bit.  I remain curious as to how fast EVs will penetrate the performance car market.

I tend to think it'll happen pretty quickly. 

• The platform itself has a lot of advantages. You can pack the COG low by building the battery pack low into the frame.
• AWD is an easy problem to solve, and you get independent drivetrains for the front and back wheels.
• There's also the concept of 4 independent motors, one at each wheel, that hasn't really been seen at least on a production-level vehicle, but for a performance car / supercar? Maybe there.
• The motors have amazing torque all across the RPM band, so you don't need to keep them revved up "in the powerband" to get massive acceleration. 

I'm probably missing some potential advantages there. 

But yeah, I have to think that once you get people over the emotional attraction of a rumbling V8 or the symphony of a V12, the EV advantages when it comes to performance are hard to beat with ICEV. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 26, 2021, 04:27:09 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 26, 2021, 04:23:25 PM

I tend to think it'll happen pretty quickly.

• The platform itself has a lot of advantages. You can pack the COG low by building the battery pack low into the frame.
• AWD is an easy problem to solve, and you get independent drivetrains for the front and back wheels.
• There's also the concept of 4 independent motors, one at each wheel, that hasn't really been seen at least on a production-level vehicle, but for a performance car / supercar? Maybe there.
• The motors have amazing torque all across the RPM band, so you don't need to keep them revved up "in the powerband" to get massive acceleration.

I'm probably missing some potential advantages there.

But yeah, I have to think that once you get people over the emotional attraction of a rumbling V8 or the symphony of a V12, the EV advantages when it comes to performance are hard to beat with ICEV.

Agreed. Some of the performance being built in that platform is already head turning.

when it becomes functionally realistic to take a 24 hour drive without major charging challenges, I will take EVs seriously. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 26, 2021, 04:51:16 PM

I don't know how quickly is pretty quickly, and there are a lot of IC performance cars on the road today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 26, 2021, 04:51:41 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 26, 2021, 04:27:09 PM

Agreed. Some of the performance being built in that platform is already head turning.

when it becomes functionally realistic to take a 24 hour drive without major charging challenges, I will take EVs seriously. 

Yessir. Not until then.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 26, 2021, 04:54:30 PM

How often do folks take a performance car on a 24 hour drive?  Or even an 8 hour drive?

I think most of these are rather uncomfortable toys, the sedans aside.  Some of the sedans are pretty luxurious.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 26, 2021, 05:18:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 26, 2021, 04:54:30 PM

How often do folks take a performance car on a 24 hour drive?  Or even an 8 hour drive?

I think most of these are rather uncomfortable toys, the sedans aside.  Some of the sedans are pretty luxurious.

I do it fairly often.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 26, 2021, 05:31:03 PM

Yeah, some do, but I think it's atypical of how sports cars are used, aside perhaps from sports sedans.

I would rarely take a Vette on a long trip, if I had one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 26, 2021, 09:05:11 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6Pw6ZBx0IY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 26, 2021, 11:08:29 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 26, 2021, 11:07:16 AM

yup, one TV in the living-room

no TV in the bedroom

no sleeping in the recliner in the living-room

separate activities

If you don't pass out in your recliner, it's not much of a chair.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 26, 2021, 11:12:03 PM

You're not gonna just sit there and take that, are ya Fearless? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 27, 2021, 09:07:28 AM

a couple of my friends that sometimes dine on large steaks and have a few drinks at the Fearless Hotel refer to the recliner as the "Death Chair"

they pass out and come to around 4am

I just get up, don't bother them and go to bed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 27, 2021, 09:09:12 AM

I'm not afraid of long driving trips, but.........  I've only driven 24 hours once, and that was because of a weather situation

8 -12 hours, sure more times than I can count, but 24 hours?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 27, 2021, 09:13:35 AM

I think the intent is "long driving trips", not necessarily 24 hours.  Right now, it's inconvenient to take an EV on a 12+ hour drive.  But I think most folks with sports cars rarely do that, sports sedans yes, but not sports cars very often.

If we opine that sports cars are rarely driven more than say four hours in a day, the recharge thing is much less of a factor.  It would be for some of course, but I think for many owners these are basically toys.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 27, 2021, 09:21:22 AM

World Series 2021 - Braves' Charlie Morton threw 16 pitches on a broken leg -- and then apologized it wasn't more (espn.com) (https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/32483475/world-series-2021-charlie-morton-threw-16-pitches-broken-leg-apologized-more)

Incredible,.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 27, 2021, 09:22:56 AM

I love that the World Series is in Atlanta.  ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 27, 2021, 09:33:09 AM

I once pitched a game with a broken hand.  I swipe tagged a player on his helmet coming home on a passed ball and broke it, didn't know it.  Couldn't  hold a bat, it was my glove hand, not really a big deal.  But tibia?  Pitching with your landing leg broken?

These guys put a lot of force on that leg, and his was fractured, probably green stick, but still.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 27, 2021, 09:40:39 AM

Roadtrippers

"The Roadtrippers road trip planner helps you discover, book, and create travel itineraries of the best places and experiences along the way."

https://roadtrippers.com/ (https://roadtrippers.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 27, 2021, 10:26:44 AM

I once drove from Des Moines to Salt Lake City in one fell swoop, somewhere around 18 hours. Blowing and drifting snow in Iowa and Wyoming. I was really punchy and stupid at the end of that. 

A friend and his now-wife drove straight through from their place here in MSP to her folks south of Seattle. That is 24 hours and change of windshield time. They did not repeat the drive on the return trip.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 27, 2021, 10:58:55 AM

Most I've ever done is probably around 14 hours, from here up to Colorado for Spring Break.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: RestingB!tchFace on October 27, 2021, 11:02:40 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on October 27, 2021, 10:26:44 AM

I once drove from Des Moines to Salt Lake City in one fell swoop, somewhere around 18 hours. Blowing and drifting snow in Iowa and Wyoming. I was really punchy and stupid at the end of that.

A friend and his now-wife drove straight through from their place here in MSP to her folks south of Seattle. That is 24 hours and change of windshield time. They did not repeat the drive on the return trip.

About ten years ago.....me and six college friends drove straight from Minneapolis to Sarasota, Florida (and back) for spring break.  All packed in an Excursion.  I'd never do it again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 27, 2021, 11:32:44 AM

I doubt many of us have driven a sports car that distance in a day.  

My step son drove from Miami to Cincy in a day, but in some regular car, at high speed.

I'm trying to think of the most comfortable long distance sports car, probably a base 911.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 27, 2021, 12:06:05 PM

When I was 18, I drove from San Antonio to home (North Central Ohio, small town no one here has ever heard of, 1400 miles) in 1 sitting. With the stops for fuel and food, it took a little over 24 hours. What made it worse was that I had attended a Ted Nugent concert at the Alamo Dome the night before I left. Got back from the concert at around midnight and then left for Ohio about an hour later. That was a long couple of days and I could never even think to do it again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 27, 2021, 12:07:47 PM

The story about the first solo flight over the Atlantic is fascinating to me, if most of it is true.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 27, 2021, 12:15:48 PM

my uncle drove from Lompoc CA to Marcus IA in 24 hours in a late 60's corvette convertible, back in the late 60's

google maps says it's a 27 hour trip @ 1770 miles

uncle Harold didn't care much for speed limits

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 27, 2021, 01:57:25 PM

I once rode my [former] motorcycle, a Suzuki SV650S, over 400 miles in a day. 

I could barely walk after that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 27, 2021, 02:00:39 PM

Farthest I did was Columbus Ohio to Rutland Vermont which doesn't sound far, but was 750 miles. On the way there the Ohio portion felt like it took forever. On the way back it felt like driving home from work. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 27, 2021, 02:10:34 PM

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nhl/cleveland-mlb-team-sued-over-guardians-name-change-by-roller-derby-team/ar-AAQ1tI8

Can't make this shit up - a Roller Derby Team :41:

Major League Baseball's Cleveland Indians, which is changing its name to the Guardians, was sued for trademark infringement on Wednesday by a local roller derby team also named the Guardians.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 27, 2021, 02:14:12 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 27, 2021, 01:57:25 PM

I once rode my [former] motorcycle, a Suzuki SV650S, over 400 miles in a day.

I could barely walk after that.

I've done 500 miles days on a bike.  400+ miles 2 days in a row a couple times

the 87 honda hurricane 1000 was probably more comfortable than the SV650S

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 27, 2021, 02:19:46 PM

I was gonna say can't see you peddling that much in between Buds

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 27, 2021, 02:34:26 PM

I drove my boat for 12 hours one time.

ONE

time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 27, 2021, 02:40:28 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 27, 2021, 02:10:34 PM

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nhl/cleveland-mlb-team-sued-over-guardians-name-change-by-roller-derby-team/ar-AAQ1tI8

Can't make this shit up - a Roller Derby Team :41:

Major League Baseball's Cleveland Indians, which is changing its name to the Guardians, was sued for trademark infringement on Wednesday by a local roller derby team also named the Guardians.

You would think a rudimentary search would have found this and killed the idea right on the spot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 27, 2021, 02:50:21 PM

I hope the roller derby team wins. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 27, 2021, 02:51:51 PM

me too

I'm sure they will if there's a monetary settlement $$$$

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 27, 2021, 02:55:07 PM

CBT

Cleveland Baseball Team

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 27, 2021, 02:56:09 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on October 27, 2021, 02:40:28 PM

You would think a rudimentary search would have found this and killed the idea right on the spot.

Didn't have to change it in the 1st place.They were named in honor a native american,think it was two but the Braves say hello.But crap c'mon Roller Derby team didn't coin the phrase,name Guardian,how about the Alarm Company sue the Roller Derby team-I would.How many Wildcats are there in CFB,chew on that one - hope it gets tossed,but I don't care for the Guardian name either.Just so petty and trite

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 27, 2021, 02:56:27 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on October 27, 2021, 02:40:28 PM

You would think a rudimentary search would have found this and killed the idea right on the spot.

Yes, but it's not clear to me it's a TM violation.  The main criterion is consumer confusion, we have Delta Airlines and Delta Faucets for example because there is no confusion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 27, 2021, 02:57:06 PM

Quote from: utee94 on October 27, 2021, 02:55:07 PM

CBT

Cleveland Baseball Team

The Tito's

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 27, 2021, 03:00:01 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 27, 2021, 02:57:06 PM

The Tito's

Pretty sure Tito Beveridge isn't interested in being associated with Cleveland in any way... ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 27, 2021, 03:05:08 PM

Hey tell that bastage i've been promoting it at least since 2004 when you mentioned it.He owes me a nipperkin or ten and he's getting a sizeable chunk of the NE Ohio Wodka market to boot

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 27, 2021, 03:08:23 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 27, 2021, 02:34:26 PM

I drove my boat for 12 hours one time.

ONE

time

PJ could rowe the same distance - not impressed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 27, 2021, 03:16:03 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 27, 2021, 01:57:25 PM

I once rode my [former] motorcycle, a Suzuki SV650S, over 400 miles in a day.

I could barely walk after that.

I wouldn't be able to walk for a week had I done that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 27, 2021, 03:19:31 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 27, 2021, 02:56:09 PM

Didn't have to change it in the 1st place.They were named in honor a native american,think it was two but the Braves say hello.But crap c'mon Roller Derby team didn't coin the phrase,name Guardian,how about the Alarm Company sue the Roller Derby team-I would.How many Wildcats are there in CFB,chew on that one - hope it gets tossed,but I don't care for the Guardian name either.Just so petty and trite

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 27, 2021, 02:56:27 PM

Yes, but it's not clear to me it's a TM violation.  The main criterion is consumer confusion, we have Delta Airlines and Delta Faucets for example because there is no confusion.

Yeah, key of trademark law is that there has to be at least a plausible issue about confusion.

If a guy with the last name Bud created a lighting company, he could call it "Bud Lighting" and not be in danger of violating a trademark. However if (prior to them doing it themselves) a seltzer company owned by a guy with the last name Bud started selling "Bud Seltzer" that would be a violation. 

If the Cleveland Guardians baseball team and the Cleveland Guardians roller derby team both sell merch that says "Cleveland Guardians", even though one is a baseball team and one is a roller derby team it would seem to generate confusion over which team you're reppin' when you wear the merch, right? 

I'd say the roller derby team might have a case, and they might get a nice fat payoff to change their own name. And if they want to keep the name and not settle, well then the baseball team would be forced to change it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 27, 2021, 03:26:54 PM

I think the Baseball Team has already spent quite a bit of time/money on changing the names around the park - this could be problematic.The Dolans are douche nozzles

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 27, 2021, 04:09:18 PM

Pretty sure the original Cleveland Guardians baseball team predates the Roller Derby team. 

Nevertheless I hope that the roller derby team takes them to the cleaners for knuckling under to cancel culture. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 27, 2021, 04:12:32 PM

My understanding was that following this name change, all racism and bad feeling in the US had ceased.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 27, 2021, 04:12:39 PM

Ed Zachery CD and theBeisbol team was never called the Guardians - the Forest City's,Spiders,Naps,Indians

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 27, 2021, 04:20:23 PM

Roller derby chicks are kind of scary. I had one take interest in me at an OSU campus area bar, and she wasn't very eager to take no for an answer. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 27, 2021, 04:22:53 PM

take it like a Man, did ya?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 27, 2021, 04:31:25 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 27, 2021, 04:22:53 PM

take it like a Man, did ya?

Heh, I am pretty sure that we would have had to wrestle over which one of us got to be the man in that scenario. 

Probably had a side gig as a dominatrix. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 27, 2021, 04:34:45 PM

Looks like it's pretty complex (as these things usually are):

https://www.bairdholm.com/blog/the-cleveland-guardians-how-a-local-roller-derby-team-may-have-thrown-a-major-league-baseball-team-a-major-curveball/

The roller derby team had never registered the trademark, which is very important. And the roller derby team apparently has been inactive for three years prior to the baseball team announcing the name change, which because they appear to not be an active user of an unregistered trademark, they have no real priority in protecting that mark. 

The point made in that article is pretty solid:

Quote

Returning to the question of whether the Cleveland Indians team was aware of the Guardians Roller Derby’s use of the CLEVELAND GUARDIANS mark, in light of the resources of the Cleveland Indians and the bullpen of capable attorneys that the organization presumably has at its disposal, it is unlikely that the Guardians Roller Derby team was absent from the Cleveland Indians’ radar.  Instead, information available to the public may suggest that either (i) discussions and negotiations are ongoing between the Cleveland Indians and Cleveland Roller Derby, or (ii) the Cleveland Indians have taken and are confident in the legal position that any suit or opposition by Cleveland Roller Derby would not hold up in court or, in the case of an opposition, before the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board. 

To not know that there was another entity in the Cleveland area using the name Guardians, particularly since the roller derby team owns "www.clevelandguardians.com", would be a fireable offense for any legal team representing the Indians lol. 


So they have to be pretty confident they're going to prevail. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 27, 2021, 04:44:57 PM

I dimly recall one has to use the mark in commercial activity every two years to retain its status as a TM, even if it was registered.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 27, 2021, 04:48:54 PM

They should have changed their name to the Cleveland Gun Grabbers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 27, 2021, 04:51:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 27, 2021, 04:12:32 PM

My understanding was that following this name change, all racism and bad feeling in the US had ceased.

I think if you get the vaccine, you're not racist anymore.  Something like that.  It was on CNN.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 27, 2021, 04:56:19 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 27, 2021, 04:51:32 PM

I think if you get the vaccine, you're not racist anymore.  Something like that.  It was on CNN. 

Post of the month! Bravo!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 27, 2021, 04:57:33 PM

As of mid-afternoon Monday, the lowest price listed on StubHub, the official fan-to-fan ticket marketplace partner of MLB, was $925 (plus fees) for World Series Game 3, which will be played at the Braves’ stadium Friday night. The prices on StubHub for Games 4 and 5, scheduled for Truist Park on Saturday and Sunday, started at $920 and $799 (plus fees), respectively, as of Monday afternoon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 27, 2021, 04:59:54 PM

A friend of mine in Houston has an uncle with a luxury suite at the Astros stadium.  She was posting pics from game 1 in the suite.  Must be nice (aside from the outcome of the game, I suppose).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 27, 2021, 05:17:10 PM

Quote from: utee94 on October 27, 2021, 04:59:54 PM

A friend of mine in Houston has an uncle with a luxury suite at the Astros stadium.  She was posting pics from game 1 in the suite.  Must be nice (aside from the outcome of the game, I suppose).

having been to one I can tell you they are really nice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 27, 2021, 05:35:37 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 27, 2021, 05:17:10 PM

having been to one I can tell you they are really nice

Oh ya well the bleachers aren't exactly chopped liver,Pal

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 27, 2021, 06:04:15 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 27, 2021, 01:57:25 PM

I once rode my [former] motorcycle, a Suzuki SV650S, over 400 miles in a day.

I could barely walk after that.

Imagine if you'd had a chick on the back....she'd propose the moment you got there!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 27, 2021, 06:23:14 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 27, 2021, 06:04:15 PM

Imagine if you'd had a chick on the back....she'd propose the moment you got there!

It was a 90 degree V-twin, which is an engine configuration with natural balance. Not some 45 degree V-twin like a Harley that vibrates like a, well, ya know...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 27, 2021, 06:33:33 PM

I've been in the Braves suite' at Truist, it's not very fancy.  I was in the GE suite in Cincinnati once that was quite nice, open bar etc., and in another than was pretty plain.

I'd like being there for a WS game though, seems like a Thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 27, 2021, 06:59:26 PM

I remember the luxury suites at the old Cooper Stadium in Columbus. 

It was like getting sent to the hole, only with a sheet of nicotine stained Plexiglas. 

(https://ballparkdigest.com/images/cooperstadium/cooperstadium6.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 28, 2021, 07:57:50 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 27, 2021, 02:10:34 PM

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nhl/cleveland-mlb-team-sued-over-guardians-name-change-by-roller-derby-team/ar-AAQ1tI8

Can't make this shit up - a Roller Derby Team :41:

Major League Baseball's Cleveland Indians, which is changing its name to the Guardians, was sued for trademark infringement on Wednesday by a local roller derby team also named the Guardians.

This is a play for money. MLB has lots of money. They'll probably give this defunct roller derby team some money, and it will go away. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 28, 2021, 10:35:41 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 27, 2021, 04:51:32 PM

I think if you get the vaccine, you're not racist anymore.  Something like that.  It was on CNN. 

If it was on CNN and nobody watched, was it really on?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 28, 2021, 10:52:39 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 28, 2021, 10:35:41 AM

If it was on CNN and nobody watched, was it really on?

Nope. And that’s the beauty. We get to vote with our attention. And when we use our attention wisely for ourselves, we likely find ourselves in a better spot. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 28, 2021, 11:01:51 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 28, 2021, 10:52:39 AM

Nope. And that’s the beauty. We get to vote with our attention. And when we use our attention wisely for ourselves, we likely find ourselves in a better spot.

What about when we use our attention to stroke our confirmation bias? :96:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2021, 11:22:14 AM

I bought some Lucid Air stock today, a flyer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 28, 2021, 11:27:54 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 28, 2021, 11:01:51 AM

What about when we use our attention to stroke our confirmation bias? :96:

That places you in with 98% of the rest of the population.  

utee94 has described me as a contrarian, and while he's clearly wrong about that, I have noticed that in people who agree with my conclusions, most of them arrived there in the dumbest ways.  It's hard to give credit to people who arrive at a good destination with faulty maps, on accident.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2021, 11:33:59 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 28, 2021, 11:27:54 AM

That places you in with 98% of the rest of the population. 

utee94 has described me as a contrarian, and while he's clearly wrong about that, I have noticed that in people who agree with my conclusions, most of them arrived there in the dumbest ways.  It's hard to give credit to people who arrive at a good destination with faulty maps, on accident. 

I agree entirely because my horoscope told me this morning.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 28, 2021, 11:38:15 AM

The irony and hypocrisy of some of these posts has me laughing out loud.  


The I am smarter than you crowd fully operational.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 28, 2021, 11:42:56 AM

Take it in the spirit it's intended ;-)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2021, 11:48:17 AM

To me, a contrarian is someone who looks for different explanations and approaches for things, like say Einstein, to name one.  In corporate culture, this is generally disliked, a lot, versus go along crowd, which means the go along fellows end up being managers, who like other go along fellows, not the squeaky wheel types.

It's even worse when the squeaky wheel ends up being right, that gets you in hotter water.  Better to be silent.

I should wite a book.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 28, 2021, 12:03:21 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 28, 2021, 11:38:15 AM

The irony and hypocrisy of some of these posts has me laughing out loud. 


The I am smarter than you crowd fully operational. 

I do share your anger at some people who act like they're smarter than everyone else. When they're clearly not.

I only do so because I clearly am. 

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 28, 2021, 11:48:17 AM

To me, a contrarian is someone who looks for different explanations and approaches for things, like say Einstein, to name one.  In corporate culture, this is generally disliked, a lot, versus go along crowd, which means the go along fellows end up being managers, who like other go along fellows, not the squeaky wheel types.

It's even worse when the squeaky wheel ends up being right, that gets you in hotter water.  Better to be silent.

I should wite a book.

I'd say that's you applying your own filter to the label contrarian. A contrarian, basically by definition, is someone who goes against the flow to go against the flow. Hence Mike saying that 94 calls him a contrarian, but he's clearly wrong about that lol...

What you're describing is a heretic. Someone who calls out conventional wisdom as wrong and is hated because others so desperately want it to be right. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 28, 2021, 12:37:37 PM

I have a serious case of confirmation bias.  I try to fight it but it's hard to know how well I succeed. 

It's hard when the world is composed of entities who know this about me and use it against me.  Facebook, Google/YouTube and the like have spent a gazillion dollars on focus groups, measuring things that give me tiny hits of dopamine, and adjust their algorithms accordingly.  They want me surfing their crap 24/7.  They're not inclined to show me things I disagree with.  It could lead to the impression that I am sane, and "they" must all not be.  A popular sentiment in online argument comments is something like "What world do you live in?!??!!"  In fact, in the online world, studies show that people of naturally varying opinions, the more time they spend online, they effectively ARE living in an entirely different world. 

Well....some ideas and people are insane.  But not all of them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 28, 2021, 12:51:58 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 28, 2021, 12:37:37 PM

I have a serious case of confirmation bias.  I try to fight it but it's hard to know how well I succeed. 

It's hard when the world is composed of entities who know this about me and use it against me.  Facebook, Google/YouTube and the like have spent a gazillion dollars on focus groups, measuring things that give me tiny hits of dopamine, and adjust their algorithms accordingly.  They want me surfing their crap 24/7.  They're not inclined to show me things I disagree with.  It could lead to the impression that I am sane, and "they" must all not be.  A popular sentiment in online argument comments is something like "What world do you live in?!??!!"  In fact, in the online world, studies show that people of naturally varying opinions, the more time they spend online, they effectively ARE living in an entirely different world. 

Well....some ideas and people are insane.  But not all of them.

Everyone has a problem with confirmation bias, myself included. You can get ahead of the curve if you a) recognize that confirmation bias is a thing and b) actively TRY to fight it. And it's still hard a f. But if you at least try, you'll be less affected than some.

Completely agree. I've said here for a long time while you've been away that we now no longer all live in the same reality. People have been able, through dozens of media outlets, news sources, social media, etc to construct the reality around them that makes them feel good. They can construct their own little confirmation bias bubble, wrap it around them at night, and sleep soundly basking in their own superiority. 

It's to the point that for many people, the only time that they interact with the "other side's" beliefs is when their own side tells them what the other side believes. Yeah, I'm sure that is going to be a fair retelling.

So we grow to think that there's no way any reasonable person could believe what we've been told the other side believes, so they must be dumb, or evil, or insane. You get a much different picture, of course, reading what the other side says out of their own mouths (and based on the best communicators amongst them, not cherry-picking the most bombastic). Sometimes things actually sound almost, dare I say it, reasonable!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 28, 2021, 12:56:11 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 28, 2021, 12:03:21 PM

I do share your anger at some people who act like they're smarter than everyone else. When they're clearly not.

I only do so because I clearly am.
I'd say that's you applying your own filter to the label contrarian. A contrarian, basically by definition, is someone who goes against the flow to go against the flow. Hence Mike saying that 94 calls him a contrarian, but he's clearly wrong about that lol...

What you're describing is a heretic. Someone who calls out conventional wisdom as wrong and is hated because others so desperately want it to be right.

Anger?  Lol. 

I said I was laughing out loud. 

it seems like accusing someone of confirmation bias is a usually an example of confirmation bias.

ponder that.  😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 28, 2021, 01:00:53 PM

Twisted.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2021, 01:08:48 PM

We had a fair bit of training on confirmation bias in grad school.  It didn't take for some I thought.  But there was a desire to seek alternative explanations and you got credit for that even if you were wrong.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 28, 2021, 01:17:14 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 28, 2021, 11:27:54 AM

That places you in with 98% of the rest of the population. 

utee94 has described me as a contrarian, and while he's clearly wrong about that, I have noticed that in people who agree with my conclusions, most of them arrived there in the dumbest ways.  It's hard to give credit to people who arrive at a good destination with faulty maps, on accident. 

(https://i.imgur.com/TpDgLPj.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 28, 2021, 01:19:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 28, 2021, 11:22:14 AM

I bought some Lucid Air stock today, a flyer.

Sounds like my kind of Pilots

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 28, 2021, 01:29:38 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 28, 2021, 12:51:58 PM

So we grow to think that there's no way any reasonable person could believe what we've been told the other side believes, so they must be dumb, or evil, or insane. You get a much different picture, of course, reading what the other side says out of their own mouths (and based on the best communicators amongst them, not cherry-picking the most bombastic). Sometimes things actually sound almost, dare I say it, reasonable!

I've seen various research that concluded that in politics, liberals and conservatives generally want the same things, but disagree on the order of priorities and how best to achieve the goals.  That seems right, in my experience.  

There are extremes on either side who don't appear to want the same things as the most people.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 28, 2021, 01:31:19 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 28, 2021, 01:29:38 PM

I've seen various research that concluded that in politics, liberals and conservatives generally want the same things, but disagree on the order of priorities and how best to achieve the goals.  That seems right, in my experience. 

There are extremes on either side who don't appear to want the same things as the most people. 

Sounds about right - you get a lot of people extremely angry about politics but rather unable to articulate what is making them so angry

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2021, 01:32:26 PM

I'm extremely angry at folks who  get extremely angry about politics, and then do nothing beyond whining.  I can't even begin.

Makes me so mad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 28, 2021, 02:18:45 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 28, 2021, 01:31:19 PM

Sounds about right - you get a lot of people extremely angry about politics but rather unable to articulate what is making them so angry

This.

I believe politics are not far off a the standard bell curve.  Some large % not far from the center, and some much smaller % near both left and right edges. 

Unfortunately, it gets exacerbated because the voices most heard are from both social media and ALL main stream media, and they are out near the edges.

So the folks near the middle get angry because, although can happily exist in a conversation not far off center- they are deluged with the message from the far edge opposite them.

It leads to this polarization and this “ pick one side or the other and fight” mentality.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2021, 02:22:27 PM

I call this the difference between NOISE and SUBSTANCE, we hear a lot of noise from the fringes, while most of us are centrists for the most part.  Few centrists are sufficiently "engaged" to expound on social media.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 28, 2021, 03:22:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 28, 2021, 02:22:27 PM

I call this the difference between NOISE and SUBSTANCE, we hear a lot of noise from the fringes, while most of us are centrists for the most part.  Few centrists are sufficiently "engaged" to expound on social media.

Yes.  Like never in my case and numerous others here I’d venture to guess. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 28, 2021, 03:33:20 PM

I want to know where they're getting the energy to be that angry all of the time. Being angry wipes you out. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 28, 2021, 03:35:39 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on October 28, 2021, 03:33:20 PM

I want to know where they're getting the energy to be that angry all of the time. Being angry wipes you out.

Wiped out is right.


(https://i.imgur.com/L7j7iDU.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 28, 2021, 03:43:10 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1453388036545339392?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1453388036545339392%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.https%2F%2Fnypost.com%2F2021%2F10%2F28%2Fman-punches-woman-who-told-him-to-take-a-chill-pill-on-nyc-subway%2F%3Futm_source%3DNYPTwitterutm_medium%3DSocialFlowutm_campaign%3DSocialFlow

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 28, 2021, 03:51:36 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 28, 2021, 01:29:38 PM

I've seen various research that concluded that in politics, liberals and conservatives generally want the same things, but disagree on the order of priorities and how best to achieve the goals.  That seems right, in my experience. 

There are extremes on either side who don't appear to want the same things as the most people. 

Exactly. We all want the same things. We just hate the people who root for the other team.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on October 28, 2021, 04:24:03 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on October 27, 2021, 02:40:28 PM

You would think a rudimentary search would have found this and killed the idea right on the spot.

What's funny is they haven't really operated since 2018, but now have been updating their website.   Nice attempt at a money grab and I don't blame them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2021, 04:26:17 PM

Former NY Gov. Cuomo charged with sex crime, months after resigning amid harassment probe (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/28/former-ny-gov-cuomo-charged-with-sex-crime-months-after-resigning-amid-harassment-probe-nbc-news.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 28, 2021, 04:35:18 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on October 28, 2021, 04:24:03 PM

What's funny is they haven't really operated since 2018, but now have been updating their website.  Nice attempt at a money grab and I don't blame them.

Clearly they're not trademark law experts :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 28, 2021, 05:03:56 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 28, 2021, 03:35:39 PM

Wiped out is right.


[img width=500 height=397.995]https://i.imgur.com/L7j7iDU.png[/img]

Dag, Fro just got doxxed dafuq out! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2021, 05:50:20 PM

When talking about economic disparity in the United States, politicians and advocates tend to focus on the top 0.01% and the bottom 90%.

An influential percentage of the population exists between those two demographics: The 9.9%, or the “semi-rich,” according to philosopher Matthew Stewart, author of “The 9.9 Percent: The New Aristocracy That Is Entrenching Inequality and Warping Our Culture.”

The net worth of that group ranges from about $1.2 million to $20 million per household, Stewarts says. Those assets include cash savings and investments, as well as real estate. Many members of the 9.9% don’t feel enormously wealthy but they are still doing better than the vast majority of the country.

“The interesting thing about this class is that it’s held even,” Stewart says. “People who make it in that group tend to hold on to their cash. People above that have seen their fortunes triple and people below that have seen their wealth decline.”


https://grow.acorns.com/the-semi-rich-americans-who-may-not-feel-wealthy/ (https://grow.acorns.com/the-semi-rich-americans-who-may-not-feel-wealthy/)

What are some indicators, aside from money, that someone is in the 9.9%?
The cultural things are hard to identify or describe, but I think we know them. Education is clearly one big identifier. They tend to be education-focused. The highly educated, especially people with advanced degrees, have done particularly well.

The second is housing. One of the surest ways to accumulate the wealth that lands in the 9.9% is to have bought housing in the right places.
On balance, they tend to be more in the professional and managerial kinds of roles. It’s not that everyone in the 9.9% is that. There are lots of small business owners, but the core of the people have found a niche in a professional hierarchy.
___________________________________________
I assume most of us here are the semi-rich 9.9%

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 28, 2021, 05:59:20 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 28, 2021, 03:22:29 PM

Yes.  Like never in my case and numerous others here I’d venture to guess.

I've found that social media in general is a poor platform for any meaningful discussion.  Even if people were more civil. 

If yall think I'm TLDR on a sports forum, you should try having a conversation with me.  I take like 20 minutes to lay out points, anticipate counterpoints and try to answer them.  

Ain't nobody got time for that.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 28, 2021, 06:03:48 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 28, 2021, 05:50:20 PM

___________________________________________
I assume most of us here are the semi-rich 9.9%

Mine and Mrs. DeTiger's net worth is nowhere near $1.2 mil

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2021, 06:23:31 PM

aside from money, that someone is in the 9.9%?

The cultural things

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 28, 2021, 06:36:07 PM

Roughly speaking, we may have fit the monetary category had my health not gone to shite and I lost all my earning power throughout my 30's.  I can also no longer do the job I did in my 20's.  Job I have now amounts to not much, but I am meandering towards something better, hopefully, if my re-entry to the world of education goes well.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2021, 06:48:04 PM

good luck

best wishes

hopefully the worst is behind you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 28, 2021, 06:48:31 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 28, 2021, 05:59:20 PM

I've found that social media in general is a poor platform for any meaningful discussion.  Even if people were more civil. 

If yall think I'm TLDR on a sports forum, you should try having a conversation with me.  I take like 20 minutes to lay out points, anticipate counterpoints and try to answer them. 

Ain't nobody got time for that. 

Hell. We'd have fun with a case of beer 'tween us.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 28, 2021, 06:49:57 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 28, 2021, 06:23:31 PM

aside from money, that someone is in the 9.9%?

The cultural things

I'm in that 9.9 for income, but not net wealth. 

If I had been able to keep the house in the divorce, I still wouldn't be there, but I'd be a hell of a lot closer. 

But I'm 43. I'm shooting to be well within the 9.9% when I retire. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2021, 07:19:14 PM

well, you know, this is just like one author's opinion

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 28, 2021, 07:30:47 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 28, 2021, 07:19:14 PM

well, you know, this is just like one author's opinion

You mean the guy that wrote this book?

The 9.9 Percent: The New Aristocracy That Is Entrenching Inequality and Warping Our Culture

Seems fair...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 28, 2021, 07:52:00 PM

I can see an argument for "entrenching inequality," but he would have an uphill climb to convince me about "warping our culture."  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2021, 08:13:51 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 28, 2021, 07:30:47 PM

You mean the guy that wrote this book?

The 9.9 Percent: The New Aristocracy That Is Entrenching Inequality and Warping Our Culture

Seems fair...

yes, that guy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 28, 2021, 08:36:52 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj0ryRB8f9A

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 29, 2021, 12:05:29 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 28, 2021, 02:18:45 PM

This.

I believe politics are not far off a the standard bell curve.  Some large % not far from the center, and some much smaller % near both left and right edges. 

Unfortunately, it gets exacerbated because the voices most heard are from both social media and ALL main stream media, and they are out near the edges.

So the folks near the middle get angry because, although can happily exist in a conversation not far off center- they are deluged with the message from the far edge opposite them.

It leads to this polarization and this “ pick one side or the other and fight” mentality.

So, I kinda agree with this, and kinda don't.

On the one hand, yeah, the loud bonkers stuff gets the attention. But I also think there's something wired in us that gravitates toward the carnage. In arguments, in media, all over. 

Like, most media is dry, or at least nothing special. But it's that spicy stuff that gets focused on and slung around. Granted, then capitalism takes over, and folks produce more spice to counter place that produce nothing but it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 29, 2021, 06:57:26 AM

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8HTgvP_Uu8s/XqsN8Yx1w2I/AAAAAAAAl9I/yGw-PxLziZsVS5xO3wtlpBMyRJmRRNvLQCLcBGAsYHQ/s640/1206.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on October 29, 2021, 07:11:14 AM

I must’ve skipped some posts. What’s the 9,9%?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 29, 2021, 07:39:46 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 29, 2021, 12:05:29 AM

So, I kinda agree with this, and kinda don't.

On the one hand, yeah, the loud bonkers stuff gets the attention. But I also think there's something wired in us that gravitates toward the carnage. In arguments, in media, all over.

Like, most media is dry, or at least nothing special. But it's that spicy stuff that gets focused on and slung around. Granted, then capitalism takes over, and folks produce more spice to counter place that produce nothing but it.

Actually, the social media algorithms do elevate the extremes, because they garner more clicks.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 29, 2021, 07:41:26 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 28, 2021, 02:22:27 PM

I call this the difference between NOISE and SUBSTANCE, we hear a lot of noise from the fringes, while most of us are centrists for the most part.  Few centrists are sufficiently "engaged" to expound on social media.

How does a centrist communicate with a radical?  It's debating a 3-year old....they don't have the wherewithal to even have a back-and-forth.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 29, 2021, 07:50:57 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 29, 2021, 07:41:26 AM

How does a centrist communicate with a radical?  It's debating a 3-year old....they don't have the wherewithal to even have a back-and-forth.

That is insulting to 3-year olders. Take it back.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2021, 07:51:46 AM

The same way one communicates with anyone of any ilk (nearly), you lay out your positions and why, and they lay out theirs.  I had a good friend, an Irish fellow, very nice guy, he classified himself as a Maoist, though he thought Mao was too far right.  He gave me a Mao pin.  Fun guy, very smart, different background obviously, disliked every US politician, so we had that in common.

Another fellow I knew on line called himself a "libertarian socialist", I was fascinated.  So, I asked him a lot of questions.  My intent was to try and understand his views, not change his mind.

Now, there are plenty of extremists with largely emotional views devoid of any facts they dislike, and they are just for amusement, not serious discussion.  But I believe I can have a discussion with anyone who has well founded beliefs on a topic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 29, 2021, 07:54:46 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 29, 2021, 07:51:46 AM

The same way one communicates with anyone of any ilk (nearly), you lay out your positions and why, and they lay out theirs.  I had a good friend, an Irish fellow, very nice guy, he classified himself as a Maoist, though he thought Mao was too far right.  He gave me a Mao pin.  Fun guy, very smart, different background obviously, disliked every US politician, so we had that in common.

Another fellow I knew on line called himself a "libertarian socialist", I was fascinated.  So, I asked him a lot of questions.  My intent was to try and understand his views, not change his mind.

Now, there are plenty of extremists with largely emotional views devoid of any facts they dislike, and they are just for amusement, not serious discussion.  But I believe I can have a discussion with anyone who has well founded beliefs on a topic.

You're describing rational people.  The radicals are irrational.  They usually lack a "why" behind their positions - at least any that is sound or prudent.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2021, 08:00:14 AM

I'd call someone who calls himself a Maoist a radical by about any metric I can imagine.  There are some "rational radicals".  There are also some folks who believe things which factually are not true, probably more of those than folks who are emotional radicals.  We have some here.  They post things as facts which aren't.

Lucid shares skyrocket after confirming deliveries of $169,000 Air sedan (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/28/lucid-shares-skyrocket-after-confirming-deliveries-of-169000-air-sedan.html)

In other news, Lucid Air pops, I'm not sure why exactly, first delivery was anticipated, the car is getting very good reviews which is why I bought some.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 29, 2021, 08:32:24 AM

No big surprise here. Such a mess.

Transfers to private schools, suburban districts, home schooling spur latest CPS enrollment drop - Chicago Sun-Times (suntimes.com) (https://chicago.suntimes.com/education/2021/10/27/22748428/chicago-public-schools-enrollment-declines-fewer-students-funding-implications-pedro-martinez)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2021, 08:36:09 AM

glad I visited Chicago a few years ago

no need to go back

well, it was more than a few, time flies

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2021, 08:39:39 AM

Zamir White's journey from two weeks to live to Georgia's star back and beyond (espn.com) (https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/32495972/zamir-white-journey-two-weeks-live-georgia-star-back-beyond)

I had not known about his struggles in infancy.  Makes me respect him more.

Herschel was a pudgy overweight kid with no talent as a child.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 29, 2021, 08:53:58 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 29, 2021, 07:51:46 AM

The same way one communicates with anyone of any ilk (nearly), you lay out your positions and why, and they lay out theirs.  I had a good friend, an Irish fellow, very nice guy, he classified himself as a Maoist, though he thought Mao was too far right.  He gave me a Mao pin.  Fun guy, very smart, different background obviously, disliked every US politician, so we had that in common.

He thought Mao was too far right?Was your Friend related to Stalin or Ho Chi Minh?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 29, 2021, 08:54:47 AM

Oxi Day and "Freedom or Death." Lest we forget - John Kass (johnkassnews.com) (https://johnkassnews.com/oxi-day-and-freedom-let-we-forget/)


This would be a good history lessen - about a week's worth - in high schools.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 29, 2021, 09:09:21 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 29, 2021, 07:54:46 AM

You're describing rational people.  The radicals are irrational.  They usually lack a "why" behind their positions - at least any that is sound or prudent. 

100%. Radicals have meltdowns when their narratives/way of thinking is called into question in even the slightest bit. Like a 3 year old who is told they can't have any candy.

I love watching someone like Jordan Peterson casually, calmly, and intelligently dismantle radicals who lose their shit and become unhinged when he challenges their views and preconceived notions in even the slightest.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2021, 09:13:05 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 29, 2021, 08:53:58 AM

He thought Mao was too far right?Was your Friend related to Stalin or Ho Chi Minh?

No, he was Irish and had a PhD in chemistry.  He drank like a fish, was a good friend, I lost track.  He just had rather extreme ideas, to me, about economic systems.  He wanted equality for all, basically government enforced.  I had a quote about that and he laughed.  I never really understood his scheme though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 29, 2021, 09:13:08 AM

Facebook is rebranding to Meta. Did anybody see the video of Mark Zuckerberg announcing this and showing off new tech/ideas for the "new" Meta platform? No way this guy is a human being. He is the weirdest creepiest dweeb in human history. I'm pretty sure he's an alien or a robot that was sent to destroy us. He needs to be killed at once if you ask me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 29, 2021, 09:14:28 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 29, 2021, 09:13:08 AM

Facebook is rebranding to Meta. Did anybody see the video of Mark Zuckerberg announcing this and showing off new tech/ideas for the "new" Meta platform? No way this guy is a human being. He is the weirdest creepiest dweeb in human history. I'm pretty sure he's an alien or a robot that was sent to destroy us. He needs to be killed at once if you ask me.

And so far his plan is working perfectly.  I don't know about "killed at once" but neutralized?  Indeed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 29, 2021, 09:15:50 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 29, 2021, 08:00:14 AM

Lucid shares skyrocket after confirming deliveries of $169,000 Air sedan (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/28/lucid-shares-skyrocket-after-confirming-deliveries-of-169000-air-sedan.html)

In other news, Lucid Air pops, I'm not sure why exactly, first delivery was anticipated, the car is getting very good reviews which is why I bought some.

$169,000? That's even more expensive than the top flight Tesla- and they have a cult-like following and have been making EV's and perfecting the design & production of EV's for 13 years. 

I'd short the shit out of Lucid. No way that company survives. The Tesla success story is like a trillion to one. Just won't happen again. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2021, 09:20:53 AM

Those are the initial super delux models.  They start under $80 K in base form.

2022 Lucid Air Review, Pricing, and Specs (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/lucid-motors/air)

With up to 520 miles of EPA-estimated all-electric range and as much as 1111 horsepower, the 2022 Lucid Air aspires to be much more than a mere Tesla (https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla) rip-off. The first model from startup Lucid Motors (https://www.caranddriver.com/lucid-motors) boasts an aerodynamic shape that's functional and fashionable. Its spacious and upscale cabin is covered by a glassy canopy that should help it live up to its atmospheric name. The Air also mixes practicality with technology, sporting capacious storage options, and no shortage of driver assists. Sure, Lucid Air sounds more like an '80s cover band than a luxury sedan, but the Tesla Model S (https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-s) sounded like an obscure electrical invention from the 19th century when it debuted, so only time will tell how far the 2022 Air ascends.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2021, 09:21:57 AM

The base model has an estimated driving range of 406 miles (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34362435/2021-lucid-air-range-pricing/), matching the Touring model. The Air features a 112.0-kWh battery pack (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33797162/2021-lucid-air-517-mile-range-113-kwh-battery/) and DC fast-charging capability. Plugged into the latter, the sedan is said to be able to recoup 300 miles of range in 20 minutes. New owners will also enjoy three years of complimentary (read: free) fast-charging (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33638476/lucid-air-free-high-speed-charging/) at Electrify America charging stations. There's no cap on how many times owners can charge their cars, as long as it's used for personal and not commercial purposes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 29, 2021, 09:27:00 AM

Not buying it. I'd short the shit out of the stock. They will be bankrupt within 3 years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2021, 09:32:50 AM

I was tempted 7 years ago to short Tesla, I didn't, but neither did I buy any.  It's play money for me.  If it bellies up it's OK.

I bought some Nikola a while back that has largely tanked.

The problem I see is the heavy hitters are moving hard into this space.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 29, 2021, 09:34:20 AM

Tom Brady so good, he does one ad pitch for Hertz/Tesla and now Tesla is a $1 trillion company. 

On a serious note, Hertz inked a deal with Tesla to buy 100,000 Tesla's for their fleet and put charging stations at most of their locations. Hertz hired Tom Brady to be their pitch man for the Tesla fleet. 

Uber has also signed a deal with Tesla. Tesla stock now at $1,077+ a share and the company now has a $1 trillion market cap. 

Who was it in here a couple years ago that was telling me Tesla was going belly up in a matter of months? Bad prediction hombre.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 29, 2021, 09:37:25 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 29, 2021, 09:32:50 AM

I was tempted 7 years ago to short Tesla, I didn't, but neither did I buy any.  It's play money for me.  If it bellies up it's OK.

I bought some Nikola a while back that has largely tanked.

The problem I see is the heavy hitters are moving hard into this space.

Never short a company with a cult-like following + legit genius at the helm.

The problem is EV is such a hard nut to crack- and all these johnny come latelys are thinking they can just get into the game and they don't have the decade plus head start on this shit that Tesla has nor do they have the evil genius running the show that Tesla has.

The heavy hitters all have EV's- and their EV's all suck. Tesla is literally the only EV maker who is making a high quality, reliable car with real range. Porsche's EV sucks. Audi's EV sucks. They look cool- but the cars suck. They are all still far behind Tesla.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2021, 09:38:44 AM

I think the Ford Lightning is exceptional, and a harbinger of what is coming from the Bigs.  And yes, I bought Ford stock 6 months back.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2021, 09:42:12 AM

LCID: 41.08 +5.61 (+15.80%) (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/LCID?qsearchterm=lucid)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2021, 09:42:24 AM

these johnny come latelys might just be thinking thay can get in, make a splash, reward the shareholders, then sell out for a great profit and run away

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 29, 2021, 09:47:52 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 29, 2021, 09:14:28 AM

And so far his plan is working perfectly.  I don't know about "killed at once" but neutralized?  Indeed.

Fearless and i could take him hunting but I'd have to get an Iowa license - don't want to get pulled over on a technicality.Too many eyeballs and camera's around here.Not that we'd be contemplating anything nefarious.And I have never gone to FACEBOOK,so maybe we here will be the Jedi's left who might trip up the Death Star.Tomorrow can't get here fast enough

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 29, 2021, 09:49:33 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 29, 2021, 09:38:44 AM

I think the Ford Lightning is exceptional,

How about the rest of the vehicle

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2021, 09:49:39 AM

A hundred years ago, we have mutiple car makers striving for market share.  GM combined a number of them under one umbrella, and we might see that again.  I don't see any of them having any special particularly advanced technology over any others.  They have some features that are nice, or not.  The space will shake out over time obviously, I don't know who is left standing, who gets acquired, and who goes under.

Short term I have some nice paper profits (in my IRA), which really are not much.  It about balances my losses with Nikola, so I could sell out now and be flat.

I allocate a portion of my investments to risky stuff, around 3-4%.  Some of it catches fire, some flames out.

I'm curious about the GM "Ultium" battery pack.  I think it has some potential, but I don't have GM stock now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2021, 09:51:31 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 29, 2021, 09:49:33 AM

How about the rest of the vehicles

If they can market a truck at that price with those features, I presume they can market an SUV the same, and work vans, and probably cars, though the car market is not so important any more.  Trucks and SUVs are a lucrative market.  A lot of work trucks don't get driven very far in a day so range is less relevant for them.

Delivery vans?  I see huge potential there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 29, 2021, 10:28:26 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 29, 2021, 09:34:20 AM

Who was it in here a couple years ago that was telling me Tesla was going belly up in a matter of months? Bad prediction hombre.

I told you they were running out of money and bleeding cash.

That was 2019. And about two months later, in May of that year, Tesla had a $2.7B capital raise. Which got them through it the liquidity problems they were in, and IMHO must have been BADLY necessary because they did it when their stock was ailing. You raise money when you don't need it, not when it appears to everyone in the world that you need it.

I think they desperately needed money in early 2019. I stand by that, and believe that I was proven right by the capital raise. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2021, 10:30:11 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 29, 2021, 09:47:52 AM

Fearless and i could take him hunting but I'd have to get an Iowa license - don't want to get pulled over on a technicality.Too many eyeballs and camera's around here.Not that we'd be contemplating anything nefarious.And I have never gone to FACEBOOK,so maybe we here will be the Jedi's left who might trip up the Death Star.Tomorrow can't get here fast enough

Ice fishing is the way to go.
Just need a little bigger than normal "hole in the ice"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 29, 2021, 10:49:50 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 29, 2021, 08:00:14 AM

  There are also some folks who believe things which factually are not true, probably more of those than folks who are emotional radicals.  We have some here.  They post things as facts which aren't.

Bruh, you trying to tell me again the earth isn't flat?  Don't believe you.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2021, 11:04:28 AM

(https://uploads-cdn.omnicalculator.com/images/flat-earth/flat-earth-meme.jpg?width=425&enlarge=0&format=jpeg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 29, 2021, 11:39:11 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 29, 2021, 10:30:11 AM

Ice fishing is the way to go.
Just need a little bigger than normal "hole in the ice"

Crap i left the manhole covers on 847's boat

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2021, 11:41:07 AM

Inflation notches a fresh 30-year high as measured by the Fed's favorite gauge (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/29/inflation-notches-a-fresh-30-year-high-as-measured-by-the-feds-favorite-gauge.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 29, 2021, 11:42:35 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 29, 2021, 10:49:50 AM

Bruh, you trying to tell me again the earth isn't flat?  Don't believe you. 

Got Galileo in trouble with the omnipotent Pope.Course 500 yrs later they apologized,kept them up many a night

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2021, 11:45:45 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 29, 2021, 11:41:07 AM

Inflation notches a fresh 30-year high as measured by the Fed's favorite gauge (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/29/inflation-notches-a-fresh-30-year-high-as-measured-by-the-feds-favorite-gauge.html)

Gasoline and Diesel fuel keep creeping higher
you'd think the refiners and suppliers would have seen the increase in demand coming and adjusted accordingly a few months ago

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 29, 2021, 11:49:19 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 29, 2021, 11:04:28 AM

(https://uploads-cdn.omnicalculator.com/images/flat-earth/flat-earth-meme.jpg?width=425&enlarge=0&format=jpeg)

😂😂👍😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2021, 11:52:23 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 29, 2021, 11:45:45 AM

Gasoline and Diesel fuel keep creeping higher
you'd think the refiners and suppliers would have seen the increase in demand coming and adjusted accordingly a few months ago

It appears to be taking a while to get production back on line.  The companies basically stopped capital investing when COVID hit, it went to zero quickly.  They are regaining cash now apparently and getting stuff drilled and producing again.  It probably will be late 2021 before supply catches with demand, and demand has outstripped projections by a lot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 29, 2021, 01:11:15 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 29, 2021, 11:52:23 AM

It appears to be taking a while to get production back on line.  The companies basically stopped capital investing when COVID hit, it went to zero quickly.  They are regaining cash now apparently and getting stuff drilled and producing again.  It probably will be late 2021 before supply catches with demand, and demand has outstripped projections by a lot.

Land crews like I used to work for are still in a down-turn.  Lots of unemployment out there.  The price of gas factors with those jobs, but it isn't a straight line, or even a sensible shape of any sort at times.  High prices CAN mean lots of work.  But it's far from the only factor.  In a purely capitalist society companies would be free to kick it in gear the minute they sniff profit.  

We don't live in a purely capitalist society.  

Also matters how much we're importing.  That affects investing, production, all of it.  All the drilling we do across the country....it's still just a drop in the bucket for our consumption.  I think--I don't know--the US is probably capable of sustaining itself if we committed to it on various fronts.  But I do know that it's not, and last I was in the industry, it wasn't close.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2021, 01:13:43 PM

if it's a supply issue of crude to the refineries, perhaps a pipeline would help?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2021, 01:15:53 PM

so, the season has come to an end here in NW Iowa (the great white north).

The golf course closes for the season Saturday evening.  Covering the greens with tarps Sunday.

Since I'll be in Lincoln Saturday, I better get out this afternoon for one final round.

FORE!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2021, 01:19:08 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 29, 2021, 01:13:43 PM

if it's a supply issue of crude to the refineries, perhaps a pipeline would help?

It's more related to production, though some west Texas crude needed a pipeline to be shipped more efficiently, I think one was built.  Oil also gets shipped by rail.  It costs more of course, but it gets shipped.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 29, 2021, 01:21:18 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 29, 2021, 01:15:53 PM

so, the season has come to an end here in NW Iowa (the great white north).

The golf course closes for the season Saturday evening.  Covering the greens with tarps Sunday.

Since I'll be in Lincoln Saturday, I better get out this afternoon for one final round.

FORE!!!

Come on down.  We got courses open all year.  Can get you a good tee time on Christmas day if you want it, probably at a balmy 72 degrees.  

You sort of have to swim through the air from hole to hole, tho.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 29, 2021, 01:26:03 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 29, 2021, 01:21:18 PM

Come on down.  We got courses open all year.  Can get you a good tee time on Christmas day if you want it, probably at a balmy 72 degrees. 

You sort of have to swim through the air from hole to hole, tho.

Yeah, same here regarding courses open, and completely different regarding humidity.

It'll just be $100+/round for holiday pricing at anything that's not a dog track. The dog tracks are $50-75/round, walking, lol. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2021, 02:14:55 PM

Why The ’22 Duramax-Powered Silverado 1500’s Max Towing Increase Is A BIG Deal | DrivingLine (https://www.drivingline.com/articles/why-the-22-duramax-powered-silverado-1500-s-max-towing-increase-is-a-big-deal/?fbclid=IwAR2BXvYvrV6PFVEhHx57nSch5Dv0mEe_fNYV3fat-Y0ZNw5mjy5GMwLuaZE)

Anybody need a low of towing capability?

GM’s diesel-powered half-ton is now officially going to perform up to its full potential thanks to a new max tow package, which allows end-users to pull as much as 13,300 pounds. That’s a 4,000-pound jump over 2021 models and it’s primarily due to the larger rear diff and heavier duty suspension you get when you check the box next to GM’s max tow package. No longer do you have to opt for the 6.2L gasoline V-8 (at the expense of fuel efficiency) in order to enjoy the brand’s heftiest towing capacity.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 29, 2021, 02:41:24 PM

Page 666? 

On Halloweekend? 

Spooky. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 29, 2021, 02:41:39 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 29, 2021, 07:39:46 AM

Actually, the social media algorithms do elevate the extremes, because they garner more clicks. 

That is true. They are designed like our biology.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 29, 2021, 02:44:25 PM

(https://sandhollowresort.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/brianoar_BA_iCdbmrTv-4.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 29, 2021, 02:51:01 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 29, 2021, 02:44:25 PM

(https://sandhollowresort.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/brianoar_BA_iCdbmrTv-4.jpg)

Normally I'd ask how many strokes it took to reach the green, but in this case...

...how many balls did it take to reach the green? :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on October 29, 2021, 02:55:49 PM

I'd hit one for fun, then take my penalty and say I was laying 2 on the green.

:72:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2021, 03:00:03 PM

What is the "local food" of note where you live?  Something rarely found elsewhere, but somewhat unique to your area.

Cincy had their chili, I don't think Atlanta has anything, shrimp and grits is popular but pretty widely spread.  I recall having a "pasty" in the UP of Michigan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 29, 2021, 03:09:36 PM

Funeral Potatoes, Fry Sauce, Pastrami Burgers and Navajo Tacos.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 29, 2021, 03:39:20 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 29, 2021, 02:44:25 PM

(https://sandhollowresort.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/brianoar_BA_iCdbmrTv-4.jpg)

Helluva sand trap.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 29, 2021, 04:07:24 PM

Isn't Atlanta where the whole "Chicken N Waffles" thing came from? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 29, 2021, 04:07:38 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 29, 2021, 03:00:03 PM

What is the "local food" of note where you live?  Something rarely found elsewhere, but somewhat unique to your area.

Cincy had their chili, I don't think Atlanta has anything, shrimp and grits is popular but pretty widely spread.  I recall having a "pasty" in the UP of Michigan.

For SoCal... A couple.

• Fish tacos. I mean, they really started down in Ensenada, but they traveled up through San Diego to all of SoCal before they ever were seen elsewhere in the US...
• Santa Maria is a little too far north to call "local", but they made tri tip a thing.
• The Christmas Eve tradition of eating tamales (even if you have new Mexican heritage whatsoever).
• Carne asada fries.
• Korean fusion taco (made famous / invented by Roy Choi and the Koji food truck)

I could also claim the french dip sandwich, as that was evidently invented in LA... But it's certainly spread nationwide a long time ago,

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 29, 2021, 04:13:26 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 29, 2021, 04:07:38 PM

For SoCal... A couple.

• Fish tacos. I mean, they really started down in Ensenada, but they traveled up through San Diego to all of SoCal before they ever were seen elsewhere in the US...
• Santa Maria is a little too far north to call "local", but they made tri tip a thing.
• The Christmas Eve tradition of eating tamales (even if you have new Mexican heritage whatsoever).
• Carne asada fries.
• Korean fusion taco (made famous / invented by Roy Choi and the Koji food truck)

I could also claim the french dip sandwich, as that was evidently invented in LA... But it's certainly spread nationwide a long time ago,

Damn.  Tell me more about Carne Asada fries!😍

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on October 29, 2021, 04:15:49 PM

For Pittsburgh, I would say perogies and hot deli sandwiches.

Also, sweeter sauces, on everything.  You go to a local pizza place, the sauce is insanely sweet.  Hole in the wall Italian, very sweet sauce.  Hell, the table "wine" is usually Riunite

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 29, 2021, 04:16:43 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 29, 2021, 04:13:26 PM

Damn.  Tell me more about Carne Asada fries!😍

(https://i.imgur.com/1mclzJT.jpg)

It's exactly what you'd expect. Fries, carne asada, guac, sour cream, pico de gallo, cheese, cilantro. 

But, ya know, shithole... :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 29, 2021, 04:17:47 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 29, 2021, 02:41:24 PM

Page 666?

On Halloweekend?

Spooky.

Thinking exactly that this morning so I've waited for the page to turn,coast is clear

It's been 50 yrs since we lost one of the greatest guitarists of all time

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/forum/anything-else/2015/10/62351/duane-allman-died-today-timh

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 29, 2021, 04:19:50 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 29, 2021, 04:16:43 PM

It's exactly what you'd expect. Fries, carne asada, guac, sour cream, pico de gallo, cheese, cilantro.

But, ya know, shithole... :57:

Thanx for sticking to the no pics please policy......Bastage - any of those shitholes in NE Ohio?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 29, 2021, 04:20:53 PM

Quote from: ELA on October 29, 2021, 04:15:49 PM

For Pittsburgh, I would say perogies and hot deli sandwiches.

Also, sweeter sauces, on everything.  You go to a local pizza place, the sauce is insanely sweet.  Hole in the wall Italian, very sweet sauce.  Hell, the table "wine" is usually Riunite

Plus that crazy french fry sandwich. 



(https://www.browneyedbaker.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/primanti-sandwich-1-550.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 29, 2021, 04:22:57 PM

Not that great I've had them,made for working stiffs on the move

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 29, 2021, 04:24:31 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 29, 2021, 04:16:43 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/1mclzJT.jpg)

It's exactly what you'd expect. Fries, carne asada, guac, sour cream, pico de gallo, cheese, cilantro.

But, ya know, shithole... :57:

Haha.  My kind of shithole. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 29, 2021, 04:26:03 PM

The Columbus Suburb of Upper Arlington had some dish called Johnny Marzetti, which was mostly served in their school cafeterias; both Public and Private. 

Never seen nor heard of it anywhere else. 

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Bop9DCrCteg/maxresdefault.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 29, 2021, 04:28:49 PM

I don't know, bwar...

1) Mexican places around here have been putting carne asada on top of fries for as long as I've been alive.  They also put carne guisada on top of fries.  And conchinita pibil on top of fries. And carnitas. And al pastor.  And tinga.  And chile con queso.  And...

2) We've had Korean bulgogi tacos here in Austin since the mid 2000s.  And kimchi fries.  When did YOUR food truck guy start doing it?

3) Tamales at Christmas have also been a tradition in Mexican households around here for generations  before I was born. Consequently gringos have done it ALMOST as long.  Here in Texico it has also become a Thanksgiving thing, for folks who don't want to do the traditional turkey.

Oh, and then there's homemade tamale dressing for thanksgiving.  That's something special.

I'll give you fish tacos, though.  (Although I had those in Mexico in the 70s, as well... ;) )

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 29, 2021, 04:32:40 PM

My principal died in a car accident yesterday.  Sudden and random feeling....she was a year or two away from retiring, too.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 29, 2021, 04:36:18 PM

My local/regional dishes:

1) Centex-style BBQ.  Dry-rub brisket or ribs, slow-smoked over post oak.

2) Tex-Mex.  This has, of course, been exported all over the country and the world, now.

3) Actual chili.  Texas red.  Not that spaghetti sauce in Ohio.

And then some fusion dishes:

4) BBQ brisket enchiladas.  

5) BBQ brisket tacos

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 29, 2021, 04:36:47 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 29, 2021, 04:32:40 PM

My principal died in a car accident yesterday.  Sudden and random feeling....she was a year or two away from retiring, too. 

Very sorry to hear that OAM, my condolences.  Were you close?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 29, 2021, 04:38:39 PM

I realized a Vietnamese pizza shop has opened near me. I must investigate.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 29, 2021, 04:42:50 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 29, 2021, 04:38:39 PM

I realized a Vietnamese pizza shop has opened near me. I must investigate.

You should.  One of our local places makes a banh mi pizza that's really tasty.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 29, 2021, 04:47:51 PM

Steubenville Ohio with their weird pizza that has raw cheese and pepperoni. 

Ohioans have weird taste buds. 



(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Et09TMCWQAAw_Bw.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 29, 2021, 04:48:53 PM

Quote from: utee94 on October 29, 2021, 04:28:49 PM

I don't know, bwar...

1) Mexican places around here have been putting carne asada on top of fries for as long as I've been alive.  They also put carne guisada on top of fries.  And conchinita pibil on top of fries. And carnitas. And al pastor.  And tinga.  And chile con queso.  And...

2) We've had Korean bulgogi tacos here in Austin since the mid 2000s.  And kimchi fries.  When did YOUR food truck guy start doing it?

3) Tamales at Christmas have also been a tradition in Mexican households around here since well before I was born. Consequently gringos have done it ALMOST as long.  Here in Texico it has also become a Thanksgiving thing, for folks who don't want to do the traditional turkey.

Oh, and then there's homemade tamale dressing for thanksgiving.  That's something special.
I'll give you fish tacos, though.  (Although I had those in Mexico in the 70s, as well... ;) )

I dunno...

Wikipedia says the korean taco started here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_taco
Says carne asada fries started in San Diego: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carne_asada_fries

The thing about anything that starts in LA is that it if it becomes popular, it's going to spread out from here quickly; people keep leaving and moving to Texas, you know... Can't keep much a secret around here. 

So it's hard to really identify a true "local" food that hasn't spread or been copied elsewhere. 

The bigger thing about SoCal is that the "region" defined as anything from probably Ventura down to the border is a population of over 20M people. So the best way to describe it is that we've got just about EVERYTHING. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 29, 2021, 04:49:32 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 29, 2021, 04:32:40 PM

My principal died in a car accident yesterday.  Sudden and random feeling....she was a year or two away from retiring, too. 

Really sorry to hear that. My condolences.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 29, 2021, 04:54:02 PM

Ha,went to the corner beer guy,he had some "old" Oktoberfests in the back room that were going back to distributor.Sold a 12 & 6 to me for practically price $16.00 the 12 was Founders one of Mi's fine Micro's,should be set for UM/MSU,Iowa/UW,tOSU/PSU - tilts 😎

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 29, 2021, 05:00:36 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 29, 2021, 04:48:53 PM

I dunno...

Wikipedia says the korean taco started here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_taco
Says carne asada fries started in San Diego: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carne_asada_fries

The thing about anything that starts in LA is that it if it becomes popular, it's going to spread out from here quickly; people keep leaving and moving to Texas, you know... Can't keep much a secret around here.

So it's hard to really identify a true "local" food that hasn't spread or been copied elsewhere.

The bigger thing about SoCal is that the "region" defined as anything from probably Ventura down to the border is a population of over 20M people. So the best way to describe it is that we've got just about EVERYTHING.

Well we all know wikipedia is always right...

And yeah, like I said, depends on "when" the Korean tacos were "invented" in SoCal.  There were two different food trucks regularly serving them in downtown Austin in the mid 2000s, before the "Chi'lantro" food truck dude made his entire business out of them starting in 2010.  The earliest "citation" in that wiki article, is that they appeared in SoCal in 2009.  Make of that what you will.

But as far as "carne asada fries"-- like I said, places have been doing that here since before I was born.  The wikipedia "citation" puts it early 1980s.  But Mexican places around here always served french fries, and hamburguesa, too. In fact, because their flattop griddles are...ummm... so "well-seasoned," let's say... hamburguesas at Mexican restaurants are always pretty great.  But that aside, as long as there have been Mexican places making dishes that included carne asada, or carne guisada, or al pastor, or anything else of Mexican origin, there have also been restaurants that served that stuff on top of fries.  Because America loves to be fat, I suppose.  But I've been able to get any and all of that since the day I was born.  In fact, my earliest memories of eating some of those proteins were on top of french fries rather than inside a tortilla, at a local taqueria around the corner from my childhood home named "La Feria."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 29, 2021, 05:10:40 PM

The Cleveland Steamer? :great:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 29, 2021, 05:11:23 PM

Sheee, next thing ya know, yer gonna try to tell me that nachos were invented in Southern California, too!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 29, 2021, 05:17:17 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 29, 2021, 05:10:40 PM

The Cleveland Steamer? :great:

Which is worse, Cincinnati Chili, or the Cleveland Steamer?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 29, 2021, 05:25:14 PM

Quote from: utee94 on October 29, 2021, 04:42:50 PM

You should.  One of our local places makes a banh mi pizza that's really tasty.

I made banh mi sandwiches the other night with pork belly. Well, very American ones, since my wife hates pickled anything so she got slaw.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 29, 2021, 05:36:32 PM

Beats me.  Crawfish boils?

I feel like it had to be a coonass who first looked at a bug in the ditch and thought "I bet that would taste good with corn and potatoes."  But I don't know that for sure.  Southeast Texas and even as far as Austin, in small pockets, eat boiled crawfish.

However.

The "crawfish boil" is not just boiled crawfish.  It's not a restaurant thing.  You do it at home, outside, with at least a dozen of your friends or family, preferably at wooden picnic tables.  The crawfish boil is a social event as much as a meal.  Everybody brings their own veggies that they want to throw in the pot and let them soak.  Host provides the corn cobs and taters, tho.  It's polite amongst friends and family to chip in $5-10 for expenses, though certain occasions warrant that the host springs for everything.  Water and soft drinks are tolerated.  Beer is preferred.  Wine is grounds for an ass-beating.  You can be all the sommelier you want in other settings; this is not the place for it.  If it doesn't last for at least two hours, you did it wrong.  

I'm cheating because this is not technically a food, but I don't know what else to put.  

There are also some people in TX and MS who do this, but they got it from us.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 29, 2021, 05:48:10 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 29, 2021, 05:36:32 PM

Beats me.  Crawfish boils?

I feel like it had to be a coonass who first looked at a bug in the ditch and thought "I bet that would taste good with corn and potatoes."  But I don't know that for sure.  Southeast Texas and even as far as Austin, in small pockets, eat boiled crawfish.

However.

The "crawfish boil" is not just boiled crawfish.  It's not a restaurant thing.  You do it at home, outside, with at least a dozen of your friends or family, preferably at wooden picnic tables.  The crawfish boil is a social event as much as a meal.  Everybody brings their own veggies that they want to throw in the pot and let them soak.  Host provides the corn cobs and taters, tho.  It's polite amongst friends and family to chip in $5-10 for expenses, though certain occasions warrant that the host springs for everything.  Water and soft drinks are tolerated.  Beer is preferred.  Wine is grounds for an ass-beating.  You can be all the sommelier you want in other settings; this is not the place for it.  If it doesn't last for at least two hours, you did it wrong. 

I'm cheating because this is not technically a food, but I don't know what else to put. 

There are also some people in TX and MS who do this, but they got it from us. 

We definitely got it from y'all.

Thanks!

I love a good crawfish boil.

And you can claim your "region" as all of Louisiana as far as I'm concerned, so you get to claim all  Cajun and Creole food.

And, thanks for that, too!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 29, 2021, 05:54:35 PM

@betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) 

Oh, and I'll definitely concede the tritip to you, in addition to the fish taco.  I'd never even heard of tritip before my first visit to California in 1995.  It's quite tasty.  So, thanks for that!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 29, 2021, 05:55:06 PM

There is this gawdawful desert that people serve out here that is Green Jello with disgusting things suspended in it such as shredded carrots, raisins and cottage cheese. 

Vomit inducing. 

(https://img.sndimg.com/food/image/upload/c_thumb,q_80,w_412,h_232/v1/img/recipes/14/92/84/picb34x3y.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 29, 2021, 05:58:37 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 29, 2021, 04:32:40 PM

My principal died in a car accident yesterday.  Sudden and random feeling....she was a year or two away from retiring, too. 

That sucks Fro.  I am sorry to hear that 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 29, 2021, 06:05:28 PM

Quote from: utee94 on October 29, 2021, 05:17:17 PM

Which is worse, Cincinnati Chili, or the Cleveland Steamer?

I've actually never tried the Cincinnati Chili the way that God intended, as a Spaghetti Sauce.

But the Cincydawg was pretty good. Regular coneys are just awful by comparison.

(https://dynl.mktgcdn.com/p/bB40Ph2SP0eudQsl0WitPGOaUKzxnQpaJHx_dZQadK4/800x600.png)

(https://miro.medium.com/max/500/0*9wR5If3RBVx2p-ub.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 29, 2021, 06:10:26 PM

Quote from: utee94 on October 29, 2021, 05:54:35 PM

@betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19)

Oh, and I'll definitely concede the tritip to you, in addition to the fish taco.  I'd never even heard of tritip before my first visit to California in 1995.  It's quite tasty.  So, thanks for that!

Yeah, and as I'm not a CA native, I don't really care to argue CA vs TX. 

It's all good food, wherever it started lol

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 29, 2021, 06:24:15 PM

All the good food is in New York anyway

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 29, 2021, 06:35:03 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 29, 2021, 06:24:15 PM

All the good food is in New York anyway

As every New Yorker will tell you! :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 29, 2021, 07:06:09 PM

Where is it that they put chocolate in their chili?  I've read that in a recipe from somewhere up north. 

Whoever they are, they deserve the death penalty.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 29, 2021, 07:20:11 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 29, 2021, 07:06:09 PM

Where is it that they put chocolate in their chili?  I've read that in a recipe from somewhere up north. 

Whoever they are, they deserve the death penalty. 

Mexico 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on October 29, 2021, 07:41:34 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 29, 2021, 09:13:08 AM

Facebook is rebranding to Meta. Did anybody see the video of Mark Zuckerberg announcing this and showing off new tech/ideas for the "new" Meta platform? No way this guy is a human being. He is the weirdest creepiest dweeb in human history. I'm pretty sure he's an alien or a robot that was sent to destroy us. He needs to be killed at once if you ask me.

Well I just skipped a bunch of posts to paste this but yes he’s really creepy looking. Like data from Star Trek or any other number of humanoid figures from sci fi history. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 29, 2021, 07:52:02 PM

Quote from: Gigem on October 29, 2021, 07:41:34 PM

Well I just skipped a bunch of posts to paste this but yes he’s really creepy looking. Like data from Star Trek or any other number of humanoid figures from sci fi history.

I actually started liking him. He keeps Sweet Baby Ray's BBQ sauce on his bookshelf. Even a billionaire can like crappy BBQ sauce.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on October 29, 2021, 07:57:17 PM

Sorry to hear about your principal OAM. I think we take for granted auto safety because it’s gotten much safer over the years and you hear of fewer and fewer fatalities than in the 70’s and 80’s. 

A good work friend of mine lost his 30 year old son in a car wreck a few months ago. It was horrible for the family. 

May she Rest In Peace. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 29, 2021, 08:21:26 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 29, 2021, 05:55:06 PM

There is this gawdawful desert that people serve out here that is Green Jello with disgusting things suspended in it such as shredded carrots, raisins and cottage cheese.

Vomit inducing.

(https://img.sndimg.com/food/image/upload/c_thumb,q_80,w_412,h_232/v1/img/recipes/14/92/84/picb34x3y.jpg)

Not the ambrosia my dad's family always made.  Basically a bunch of whipped cream with jello mix maybe and basically fruit cocktail scattered throughout, with plenty of coconut shavings.  
I thought it was subpar for a dessert, but my dad loved it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 29, 2021, 08:23:58 PM

I wish someone would do a detailed BBQ map.  Not just the lazy Carolina style, Texas brisket, Stl Louis ribs....but a genuine, accurate map with zones within zones.
I swear East-Central GA pork BBQ is unique.....so I assume everywhere else's is, too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 29, 2021, 08:36:04 PM

best food city in America: NEW YORK by far. 

worst food city in America: anywhere in Ohio. Ohio is just the worst of everything, basically.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 29, 2021, 08:36:22 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 29, 2021, 04:47:51 PM

Steubenville Ohio with their weird pizza that has raw cheese and pepperoni.

Ohioans have weird taste buds.



(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Et09TMCWQAAw_Bw.jpg)

The people who made this should be killed. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on October 29, 2021, 09:11:12 PM

Watching the World Series. 

Boy the Atlanta logo sure does look a lot like the Alabama logo. 

(https://i.imgur.com/bjp1p3I.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2021, 09:14:05 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 29, 2021, 04:32:40 PM

My principal died in a car accident yesterday.  Sudden and random feeling....she was a year or two away from retiring, too. 

Bummer, real bummer
sorry

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2021, 09:20:28 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 29, 2021, 05:55:06 PM

There is this gawdawful desert that people serve out here that is Green Jello with disgusting things suspended in it such as shredded carrots, raisins and cottage cheese.

Vomit inducing.

(https://img.sndimg.com/food/image/upload/c_thumb,q_80,w_412,h_232/v1/img/recipes/14/92/84/picb34x3y.jpg)

horrid, but I saw it here in the early 60s, when I was still a toddler

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 29, 2021, 10:05:48 PM

The stuff wasn't really bad as i recall

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2021, 10:11:58 PM

the taste was kinda sweet, the texture of the shredded carrots wasn't good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 29, 2021, 10:18:46 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 29, 2021, 08:36:22 PM

The people who made this should be killed.

Or just given an oven.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2021, 10:35:33 PM

or have their head shoved into said oven

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 30, 2021, 12:48:40 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 29, 2021, 08:36:04 PM

best food city in America: NEW YORK by far.

worst food city in America: anywhere in Ohio. Ohio is just the worst of everything, basically.

I feel like any time you put millions of people from all over the world in about 5 square miles, you're gonna get good food. I haven't spent enough time in NYC to confirm your statement, but I'd expect it to be at or near the top.

I don't understand Ohio. There's basically nothing of note. Any individual Ohio city would have trouble ranking top 20 in the US. I'm sure it's scenic, but I can't think of a single distinguishing landmark worthy of seeing. There's no there there... Yet Ohioans seem to be fiercely territorial about their vanilla state.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 30, 2021, 08:26:40 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 29, 2021, 03:00:03 PM

What is the "local food" of note where you live?  Something rarely found elsewhere, but somewhat unique to your area.

Cincy had their chili, I don't think Atlanta has anything, shrimp and grits is popular but pretty widely spread.  I recall having a "pasty" in the UP of Michigan.

Stone crab claws.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 30, 2021, 08:27:13 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 29, 2021, 03:09:36 PM

Funeral Potatoes, Fry Sauce, Pastrami Burgers and Navajo Tacos.

Those are big in Wisconsin. Love 'em.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 30, 2021, 08:31:18 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 29, 2021, 04:32:40 PM

My principal died in a car accident yesterday.  Sudden and random feeling....she was a year or two away from retiring, too. 

Sorry to hear this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 30, 2021, 08:59:33 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 30, 2021, 12:48:40 AM

I feel like any time you put millions of people from all over the world in about 5 square miles, you're gonna get good food. I haven't spent enough time in NYC to confirm your statement, but I'd expect it to be at or near the top.

I don't understand Ohio. There's basically nothing of note. Any individual Ohio city would have trouble ranking top 20 in the US. I'm sure it's scenic, but I can't think of a single distinguishing landmark worthy of seeing. There's no there there... Yet Ohioans seem to be fiercely territorial about their vanilla state.

Weren't you just talking about Cali's big culinary revolution was putting beef on fries?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 30, 2021, 09:01:59 AM

For Chicago, I'd say the best invention is the Italian Beef.

The hot dogs are awesome. Vienna is superior. Deep dish is just OK to me, but it is well loved.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 30, 2021, 09:05:11 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 30, 2021, 08:59:33 AM

Weren't you just talking about Cali's big culinary revolution was putting beef on fries?

Clearly he hasn't had Walleye/Perch fresh from the Great Lakes.Can't eff up perfection......well maybe i could but not so far.Lots of old European recipes here - from old European types.Many old ethnic enclaves here in N.E. Ohio with their home made variants of sausages - Polish,Italian,German,Hungarian,Ukranian,Slovenian Easter Sausage(one of my favs) and so on and so forth

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 30, 2021, 09:07:24 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 30, 2021, 09:05:11 AM

Clearly he hasn't had Walleye/Perch fresh from the Great Lakes.Can't eff up perfection......well maybe i could but not so far

Speaking of fish tacos - my dad used to drag me walleye fishing, and would usually fry up the fish in bisquik and wrap it in a tortilla. I should put him on wikipedia.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2021, 09:07:40 AM

I think of Chicago and deep dish as synonymous, Philly and cheese steak, etc., I realize some of these are not authentic but generated.

SF I think of Chinatown, or Pier 37, which was commercialized to a touristy death zone for me.  LA, maybe CalMex?  Memphis and ribs.  NO and all sorts of French things, I'm not a fan.  Miami and stone crab.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 30, 2021, 09:11:01 AM

Cincy, have you had etouffee?  Less soupy than gumbo....less all-over-the-place than jumbalaya.  I love cajun/creole fare and prefer etouffee because it's a middle-ground dish.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 30, 2021, 09:13:15 AM

Best thing to come out of Cali, in my opinion, is Cioppino. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 30, 2021, 09:21:35 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 30, 2021, 09:07:24 AM

Speaking of fish tacos - my dad used to drag me walleye fishing, and would usually fry up the fish in bisquik and wrap it in a tortilla. I should put him on wikipedia.

Dragged you fishing???
(https://i.imgur.com/UbAlL0g.png)


"The Creator does not deduct from man's allotted time those hours spent fishing."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2021, 09:29:49 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 30, 2021, 09:11:01 AM

Cincy, have you had etouffee?  Less soupy than gumbo....less all-over-the-place than jumbalaya.  I love cajun/creole fare and prefer etouffee because it's a middle-ground dish.

I have, of course, had all of those.  We spent three nights in NO and dined around, nothing impressed me at all.  We were being taken places by a lady who claimed she knew the good places, she didn't, in my view.

I suppose I'm a French snob when it comes to food, I'd rather have French than some kind of quasi-pseudo-semi-kind of French something.  Fish stew to me is just fish stew, it can certainly be decent and tasty but hardly elevating, to me.

I fix jambalaya on occasion at home when we have the fixin's and it's fine, I fix beef stew with leftover steak and it's often fairly good, but it's just food to me.  I like okra a lot so I fix soup with it fairly often when it's chilly.

To me there is kind of fast food, then regular food, and then rarely memorable food.  Regular food can be quite good, but not memorable.

Some of my memorable dinners was as a kid eating at my grandma's table because everything was just picked.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 30, 2021, 09:31:12 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 29, 2021, 03:09:36 PM

Funeral Potatoes, Fry Sauce, Pastrami Burgers and Navajo Tacos.

Never heard of that but I can't recall eating at the after Funeral Receptions - just don't have appetite.Couple cups of Joe and make the rounds,maybe a few shots out of respect

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2021, 09:39:52 AM

Business booming at Waffle House after LA sports columnist’s tweet – WSB-TV Channel 2 - Atlanta (wsbtv.com) (https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/business-booming-waffle-house-after-la-sports-columnists-tweet/QS33Y6KXW5CSFGL5MTCTVLTDHU/?fbclid=IwAR3dfZy3_BVbmDU6TqMglxueNUKxZq1ZWHw5kuiuWkCf2OohGyegFAMmagw)

I'm now thinking this is Atlanta's contribution to the culinary world.  The "Battery" around the stadium is of course new, I suppose it's "sterile" in that sense.  I'm not sure what else it's supposed to be really.

The tweet from LA Times sports columnist Bill Plaschke said, “After the five-game madness against the Giants, this NLCS Game One in sterile shopping-mall Atlanta stadium feels like a Saturday night in May..most excitement is discussion of post-game trip to Waffle House.”

The Waffle House cooks have a fascinating way to recall orders yelled in by the waitresses.  The food of course is comprised of salt, grease, caffeine, sugar, but no alcohol, so they missed on major food group.  My wife is not a fan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 30, 2021, 09:51:51 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 29, 2021, 07:20:11 PM

Mexico

In Mexico they put chocolate in their chile, but not in their chili.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 30, 2021, 09:53:20 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 30, 2021, 09:21:35 AM

Dragged you fishing???
(https://i.imgur.com/UbAlL0g.png)


"The Creator does not deduct from man's allotted time those hours spent fishing."

I have like, four good hours of fishing in me a year. We would go on these week long trips where we'd fish all day long. Pretty sure I could go several lifetimes without fishing again

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 30, 2021, 09:54:03 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 30, 2021, 09:07:24 AM

Speaking of fish tacos - my dad used to drag me walleye fishing, and would usually fry up the fish in bisquik and wrap it in a tortilla. I should put him on wikipedia.

I'd never had walleye til I spent some time in Minnesota.  It's delicious.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 30, 2021, 09:55:27 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 30, 2021, 09:51:51 AM

In Mexico they put chocolate in their chile, but not in their chili.

Chili just a knock off mole. Which I mean to make one of these days. I've been put off by the nuts, because one daughter is allergic. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 30, 2021, 10:02:17 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 29, 2021, 08:23:58 PM

I wish someone would do a detailed BBQ map.  Not just the lazy Carolina style, Texas brisket, Stl Louis ribs....but a genuine, accurate map with zones within zones.
I swear East-Central GA pork BBQ is unique.....so I assume everywhere else's is, too.

You're definitely correct that there are sub-regional differences in all the major BBQ areas.  A comprehensive map would be cool.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2021, 10:04:20 AM

I think the major differences are worth knowing, I'm not sure I'd bother with minor subdifferences.

Difference Between Cross-Plane and Flat-Plane Cranks (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/difference-between-cross-plane-and-flat-plane-cranks/?utm_campaign=trueAnthem)

I got used to eastern Carolina BBQ and grew to like it quite a bit, it looks pretty nasty, kind of greyish shredded pork.  It was like the first time I had Cincy chili, it was weird.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 30, 2021, 10:05:07 AM

Simple pleasures!

I know, I know- I am easily amused. 

During my workout this morning at Planet Fitness….

I actually had a cold drink of water from a water fountain.  I think it’s been 2 years-ish. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 30, 2021, 10:07:44 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 30, 2021, 09:55:27 AM

Chili just a knock off mole. Which I mean to make one of these days. I've been put off by the nuts, because one daughter is allergic.

Chili and chile are two entirely different things, which is why I made the distinction.

Chili is a dish of meat, chile peppers, and spices.

Chile is a sauce or gravy made from chile peppers, and spices, and in some cases as you say, nuts and other additives.  Mole is one type of chile sauce, but there are dozens more throughout Mexico, all regionally specific.  And of course New Mexico and Texas have their own versions of chile gravy as well.

I've made mole and many other Mexican chile sauces before, I really enjoy experimenting with the different spices and flavor profiles.

I've spent a lot of time in the interior of Mexico and I don't think I've ever actually seen Texas/American style chili, anywhere.  They have tons of dishes consisting of various braised/stewed proteins in with chile peppers and spices, but nothing that matches the consistency and flavor profile of what we call chili.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 30, 2021, 10:10:14 AM

Texas chili is to mole what Wendy's chili is to Texas chili.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 30, 2021, 10:12:35 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 30, 2021, 10:10:14 AM

Texas chili is to mole what Wendy's chili is to Texas chili.

lulznope

Mole isn't even a dish.  It's a sauce that can be used as a marinade, or a cooking liquid, or a finishing sauce, or all of the above. 

And it's just one of many.  Throughout Mexico, there are numerous different sauces of similar construction but differing ingredients, which create a broad flavor profile.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 30, 2021, 10:17:27 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 30, 2021, 08:59:33 AM

Weren't you just talking about Cali's big culinary revolution was putting beef on fries?

Actually the best thing about Cali is that we attract people from all over the country and the world, and they bring their culinary traditions with them. So we can sample pretty much anything on earth.

I can even find Cincinnati chili here in SoCal, not that I'd want to. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 30, 2021, 10:22:07 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 30, 2021, 10:12:35 AM

lulznope

Mole isn't even a dish.  It's a sauce that can be used as a marinade, or a cooking liquid, or a finishing sauce, or all of the above.

And it's just one of many.  Throughout Mexico, there are numerous different sauces of similar construction but differing ingredients, which create a broad flavor profile.

Ah yes, the Very Different meat and chile pepper based sauce in Texas v. the meat and chile based sauce in Mexico. This reminds me of Cali's actual big contribution to the world, which was ripping off White Castle but adding clowns to give us McDonald's. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 30, 2021, 10:25:38 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 30, 2021, 10:22:07 AM

Ah yes, the Very Different meat and chile pepper based sauce in Texas v. the meat and chile based sauce in Mexico. This reminds me of Cali's actual big contribution to the world, which was ripping off White Castle but adding clowns to give us McDonald's.

You seem confused.  There's no meat in mole.  It's just a sauce.

You can of course use mole to prepare dishes with proteins.  I like to use mole as an enchilada gravy.

But it's not a dish.  It's a sauce.

Chili is a dish, the meat is stewed alongside the spices for the duration of the cooking time.  It's not really the same, at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 30, 2021, 10:29:20 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 30, 2021, 10:25:38 AM

You seem confused.  There's no meat in mole.  It's just a sauce.

You can of course use mole to prepare dishes with proteins.  I like to use mole as an enchilada gravy.

But it's not a dish.  It's a sauce.

Chili is a dish, the meat is stewed alongside the spices for the duration of the cooking time.  It's not really the same, at all.

You are telling me there is a Big Difference between a meat and sauce dish and a sauce that you put on meat to make a dish. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 30, 2021, 10:34:37 AM

If they can call a dish with beans added "bean soup" instead of chili w/beans, anything is possible semantically. 

This, despite the fact that there is nothing soupy about it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 30, 2021, 10:36:35 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 30, 2021, 10:22:07 AM

Ah yes, the Very Different meat and chile pepper based sauce in Texas v. the meat and chile based sauce in Mexico. This reminds me of Cali's actual big contribution to the world, which was ripping off White Castle but adding clowns to give us McDonald's.

Far be it from me to defend McDonald's, but whatever Cali did worked. It's the biggest chain in the world. 

And unlike White Castle, it can actually be eaten sober. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 30, 2021, 10:42:01 AM

That's Whitey Cast-els

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 30, 2021, 10:43:33 AM

Quote

And unlike White Castle, it can actually be eaten sober. 

You say that like it's a good thing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 30, 2021, 10:46:09 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 29, 2021, 05:48:10 PM

I love a good crawfish boil.

Wish I'd done more of that when I lived there.  Even despite the fact crawfish were so expensive there.  Never really had the people, though. 

I put one on once, after some badgering, for some girls in my church who wanted to "try it."  I resisted for a while because that's not something I was willing to do on a maybe.  

As I thought, they were "meh" about it and I wound up with like 30 lbs of crawfish in my freezer.  And was out well over $100.  

The things we do when we're single and chicks are hot.  

gawddam Texans.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 30, 2021, 10:53:07 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 30, 2021, 10:36:35 AM

Far be it from me to defend McDonald's, but whatever Cali did worked. It's the biggest chain in the world.

Ray Kroc, the former CEO, was speaking at UT-Austin sometime in the 70's, I believe, to the business school.  He asked them if any of them could tell him what business he was in.  A student raised their hand and ventured the guess "You're in the food industry."  When he said that was wrong another guessed "the restaurant business."

He said that was incorrect, and then asked them another question.  "Which one of you can't make a burger for yourself that's much better than what McDonald's offers?  I bet all of you can.  If I competed in the context of the food industry, we'd probably go out of business."

Then he told them he was in the real estate business. 

IMO the man knew what he was talking about, and that's what they did that worked.  McDonald's aggressively scooped up high-traffic property everywhere they went.  As he said, he used real estate to sell convenience, not food. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2021, 10:55:43 AM

I bought stock in Bob Evans back when (no longer own it) because of their real estate.  Each place is corporately owned, and they own the property.  It's worth gazillions, but they won't realize that any time soon (realize meaning cash it in).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 30, 2021, 11:29:42 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 30, 2021, 09:31:12 AM

Never heard of that but I can't recall eating at the after Funeral Receptions - just don't have appetite.Couple cups of Joe and make the rounds,maybe a few shots out of respect

Ooo, they are good. Crunchy on top, creamy underneath. 


(https://food.fnr.sndimg.com/content/dam/images/food/fullset/2016/2/26/1/WU1301H_Funeral-Potatoes_s4x3.jpg.rend.hgtvcom.616.462.suffix/1558100024154.jpeg)


And the Pastrami Burger is no joke too

(https://img1.10bestmedia.com/Images/Photos/338737/IMG-0287_54_990x660.JPG)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 30, 2021, 11:35:20 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 30, 2021, 10:04:20 AM

It was like the first time I had Cincy chili, it was weird.

How many Cincydawgs have you consumed in your lifetime? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 30, 2021, 11:43:57 AM

Oh yeah, if someone put a Columbus Style pizza down in front of me right now, I would get down into a three point stance and just fire off on that thing like you wouldn't believe. 

(https://thebreakfastgrubguy.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/10392303_10204420703271444_4745111356054110059_n.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 30, 2021, 11:45:30 AM

What is the skinnier guy gonna eat, because he ain't getting any of that pizza.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 30, 2021, 11:47:11 AM

Skinny guy already ate, he's just there for the ambiance. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 30, 2021, 11:53:18 AM

But yeah, I even stooped to eating a "The Edge" from Pizza Hut a few months back, which is their poor imitation of a Donatoes Pizza, which is fairly generic "Columbus Style" Pizza to begin with.

(https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/w_2000,h_2000,c_fit/https%3A%2F%2Ffoodsided.com%2Ffiles%2F2021%2F05%2FPizza-Huts-The-Edge-Ultimate-Unboxed-.jpeg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2021, 12:32:37 PM

I liked Donatos.  I rarely had coneys.  I like slaw dogs and sauerkraut dogs with mustard.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 30, 2021, 12:34:56 PM

So you didn't eat the Cincydawgs, but you selected them as your username? :o

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2021, 12:35:39 PM

So far as I know, never.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 30, 2021, 12:54:16 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 30, 2021, 11:43:57 AM

Oh yeah, if someone put a Columbus Style pizza down in front of me right now, I would get down into a three point stance and just fire off on that thing like you wouldn't believe.

(https://thebreakfastgrubguy.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/10392303_10204420703271444_4745111356054110059_n.jpg)

I'd eat that in a day.  2 sittings and enjoy it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 30, 2021, 12:58:25 PM

Not in front of that guy you wouldn't,need pepper spray then make a break for it.....or back peddle and eat it in front of him

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 30, 2021, 01:37:22 PM

Flex appears to be fixed. Replaced all 6 spark plugs and replaced the ignition coil on the cylinder that was misfiring, and from at least a short test drive I think it's all good. Will need to give it another longer drive soon to be sure. 

Coffee table arrived with a big crack in the top, so the replacement should be here on Monday, as will a working oven. 

Now all I need is to get enough miles on the Jeep so the sensors reset and it passes emissions, and I'll actually have most of the things in my life fully functional lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 30, 2021, 02:10:16 PM

Awesome!
I'll finally have my bedroom how I want it today.
Mattress came in.  I'm disassembling the bed frame I built like 5-6 years ago, getting it out of the house.  The adjustable bed frame is in the back yard, I'll bring it up and assemble it.  Throw the mattress on it.  The big, comfy chair is already upstairs, just have to slide it in, and I'll be all set.
Then back to the Whoa Nellie grind while watching the games.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 30, 2021, 02:35:42 PM

Another entry for best fried chicken sandwich

https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/1454212081046204417?t=4EcG5KXAxaddeQ-4t8Wv7w&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 30, 2021, 10:12:13 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 30, 2021, 10:29:20 AM

You are telling me there is a Big Difference between a meat and sauce dish and a sauce that you put on meat to make a dish.

Yes. I'm telling you there's a big difference between a complete dish, and a sauce that can be put on anything. 

What a weird hill to choose to die on, but you do you I guess.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 30, 2021, 10:17:35 PM

To die on?Somebody's found the Tito's

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 30, 2021, 10:33:06 PM

I love meat sauce.....If I have too much leftover sauce for the noodles, I'll just make some toast and load it up.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 30, 2021, 11:14:25 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 30, 2021, 11:53:18 AM

But yeah, I even stooped to eating a "The Edge" from Pizza Hut a few months back, which is their poor imitation of a Donatoes Pizza, which is fairly generic "Columbus Style" Pizza to begin with.

(https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/w_2000,h_2000,c_fit/https%3A%2F%2Ffoodsided.com%2Ffiles%2F2021%2F05%2FPizza-Huts-The-Edge-Ultimate-Unboxed-.jpeg)

I did not know that was called Columbus-style pizza. But there is a chain of weird places in Indiana that primarily serves that tape. Pretty decent considering it was Indiana

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 30, 2021, 11:58:00 PM

Columbus style, also referred to as square cut, party cut, or tavern cut, is baked on a thin crust, covered edge-to-edge in toppings and cut into smaller squares.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 31, 2021, 09:08:09 AM

I did not know that was Cbus style.  We rarely eat pizza these days, I'm not sure why exactly.  Too many other options around I suppose.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 31, 2021, 09:10:13 AM

I love Chicago deep dish.  I'm okay with badgerfan's assertion that it is really some other dish.  It's still delicious and I'll eat it right up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2021, 09:10:19 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 30, 2021, 11:58:00 PM

Columbus style, also referred to as square cut, party cut, or tavern cut, is baked on a thin crust, covered edge-to-edge in toppings and cut into smaller squares.

Tons of that style in Chicago. Cracker thin crust is best.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 31, 2021, 09:33:50 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 30, 2021, 10:12:13 PM

Yes. I'm telling you there's a big difference between a complete dish, and a sauce that can be put on anything.

What a weird hill to choose to die on, but you do you I guess.

Lol, hey man it's your hill. If you want to go down on the chili isn't really chile sauce and meat hill, have at it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 31, 2021, 09:53:47 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2021, 09:10:19 AM

Tons of that style in Chicago. Cracker thin crust is best.

Chicago thin crust pizza is fantastic.

I don't know Cbus pizza so I'm not sure how similar they are other than being thin and cut into squares.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 31, 2021, 09:55:55 AM

Chicago deep dish is also fantastic, of course. But it's a completely different food, and it's so rich that it's not something you can eat all the time just because you want pizza. It's special occasion vacation pizza lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 31, 2021, 10:02:58 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 31, 2021, 09:53:47 AM

Chicago thin crust pizza is fantastic.

I don't know Cbus pizza so I'm not sure how similar they are other than being thin and cut into squares.

I guess I've heard it described like that, though I don't go around talking about Columbus pizza. A chewy thin crust is best, cracker crusts are for birds.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 31, 2021, 10:04:19 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 31, 2021, 09:55:55 AM

Chicago deep dish is also fantastic, of course. But it's a completely different food, and it's so rich that it's not something you can eat all the time just because you want pizza. It's special occasion vacation pizza lol.

Or the fam is out of town let me crush my insides pizza

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2021, 10:11:47 AM

We get deep dish (and other things) shipped here from Ship Chicago Food & Gifts Nationwide | Tastes of Chicago (https://www.tastesofchicago.com/)

It works out good. Maybe have it one time per month.

The Beef deep dish is awesome.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 31, 2021, 10:15:11 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 31, 2021, 09:33:50 AM

Lol, hey man it's your hill. If you want to go down on the chili isn't really chile sauce and meat hill, have at it.

(https://i.imgur.com/V0jy56Z.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 31, 2021, 10:17:13 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 31, 2021, 09:55:55 AM

Chicago deep dish is also fantastic, of course. But it's a completely different food, and it's so rich that it's not something you can eat all the time just because you want pizza. It's special occasion vacation pizza lol.

I rarely eat pizza.  So when I do, I'm happy to eat something I love.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 31, 2021, 10:17:50 AM

I find the deep dish to be too greasy for me.  I don't like the cracker like crust on some either, I guess I prefer a normal crust whatever that means.

We're convening with most of our family in Orlando in December and I was thinking some decent grocery pizza would be good for feeding the four boys, and us.  They are picky eaters and live in France.  Orlando is booked almost fully for condos in December, a lot of folks are making up for lost time.  We're headed to Hawaii for two weeks in December, same thing, resorts are booked solid.

I managed to book our flights before the prices went way up, got two tickets in front for $1600 each.

Folks are really wanting to travel, me included.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 31, 2021, 10:18:23 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2021, 10:11:47 AM

We get deep dish (and other things) shipped here from Ship Chicago Food & Gifts Nationwide | Tastes of Chicago (https://www.tastesofchicago.com/)

It works out good. Maybe have it one time per month.

The Beef deep dish is awesome.

Yeah I've had Lou Malnati's shipped on your recommendation.  It's not the same as fresh at the restaurant, but it's still pretty good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 31, 2021, 10:31:04 AM

IN SEC land, UGA has clinched the East.  The West has two one loss teams, Auburn and Bama who of course meet last game in the IB, but Auburn is headed to A&M this weekend.  Bama gets LSU.  A&M would make it if Bama loses again and they beat Auburn, but they already have 2 Ls.

The Miss teams have two losses but I don't see either with a realistic shot.  My guess is the obvious one.  UGA hosts Mizzou, who is pretty bad, then travels to Tenn who has shown signs of life, then a pastry and Tech, so Tenn is the only realistic change of an L.  I hope not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 31, 2021, 11:33:42 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/zCDeX1k.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 31, 2021, 11:41:01 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/bxWVGT8.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 31, 2021, 12:07:44 PM

HA!Hope he had a pre nupt

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2021, 12:27:00 PM

might be giving up half of his guitars

might be worth it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2021, 12:38:01 PM

A dying City. so sad.

Downtown Chicago shootings up 220%, biggest rise in city: ‘People are fed up’ - Chicago Sun-Times (suntimes.com) (https://chicago.suntimes.com/2021/10/29/22751518/downtown-chicago-loop-shootings-murder-river-north)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 31, 2021, 12:58:39 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2021, 12:38:01 PM

A dying City. so sad.

Downtown Chicago shootings up 220%, biggest rise in city: ‘People are fed up’ - Chicago Sun-Times (suntimes.com) (https://chicago.suntimes.com/2021/10/29/22751518/downtown-chicago-loop-shootings-murder-river-north)

Sadder than sad.   So many big cities….

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2021, 01:06:29 PM

Ald. Brian Hopkins, whose 2nd Ward winds through downtown, said rising crime is “driving the sense of unease” and “prevailing fear” among his constituents, some of whom deluge him with emails saying they’re moving away.

“I think we’re at the tipping point right now,” Hopkins said. “People are fed up. I’m fed up.”


_________________________________________________ ______________________________

fed up?  apparently not, because no mention of doing anything to resolved the issue.  No plan, no action. no strategy

similar to cutting carbon emissions - talk and money 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 01:09:43 PM

How would you resolve the issue? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2021, 01:16:35 PM

vigorous law enforcement

call in the national guard

don't bring a knife to a gun fight

kick ass on the criminals, let them know folks are fed up and this shit isn't gonna fly

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2021, 01:18:32 PM

The County President, DA and Chief Judge all say hello.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2021, 01:20:07 PM

yup, I didn't say it would be popular

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2021, 01:26:13 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 31, 2021, 01:20:07 PM

yup, I didn't say it would be popular

It would be popular, but the three amigos are not tough on crime. That's the problem in Chicago right now. The mayor and CPD are not pleased with that group.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 31, 2021, 01:30:41 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 01:09:43 PM

How would you resolve the issue?

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ffsmedia.imgix.net%2F6b%2F17%2Fb6%2F87%2F27f8%2F4fc1%2F8080%2F68bb437dc856%2Fto-some-academics-preventing-nuclear-war-should-be-literally-a-life-or-death-decision.gif%3Fauto%3Dformat%252Ccompress%26w%3D500%26gifq%3D35&f=1&nofb=1) (https://fsmedia.imgix.net/6b/17/b6/87/27f8/4fc1/8080/68bb437dc856/to-some-academics-preventing-nuclear-war-should-be-literally-a-life-or-death-decision.gif?auto=format%2Ccompress&w=500&gifq=35)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 01:34:09 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 31, 2021, 01:16:35 PM

vigorous law enforcement

call in the national guard

don't bring a knife to a gun fight

kick ass on the criminals, let them know folks are fed up and this shit isn't gonna fly

Have you ever tried your hand at herding cats? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2021, 01:35:30 PM

some folks would compare my plan to that pic

I wouldn't give a dern

if those folks wanted to come to Chicago to peacefully protest, I'd give them an ass kickin as well

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2021, 01:36:12 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 01:34:09 PM

Have you ever tried your hand at herding cats?

you don't want to know how I deal with cats

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 01:44:26 PM

Pretty sure Trump tried to do all of those things, and they fought him tooth and nail the whole time. 

Irredeemable city. Get out while you can. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2021, 01:51:12 PM

yup, I'm not saying it's possible to do what I would suggest, just saying what I would do if I could

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 02:09:26 PM

You could give the problem areas what they want and remove police altogether until they kill each other down to the last man. Then you send the police back in there in order to snub out that last man. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2021, 02:11:51 PM

well, that's my other option

it's either one extreme or the other

either the laws will be enforced or just let it go completely and let the criminals run it their way.

this half assed crap isn't working

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 02:26:15 PM

Neither are going to happen, and will just continue to get worse. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 31, 2021, 02:26:58 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 02:09:26 PM

You could give the problem areas what they want and remove police altogether until they kill each other down to the last man. Then you send the police back in there in order to snub out that last man.

You seen to think it worx that way - I don't have a problem with that,but the pinheads who caused many of the problems still have their seats and would prolly squelch ideas like that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 02:30:35 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 31, 2021, 02:26:58 PM

You seen to think it worx that way - I don't have a problem with that,but the pinheads who caused many of the problems still have their seats and would prolly squelch ideas like that

They are the ones pushing for less police, so I doubt that they would offer up much resistance. 

They might squelch the idea of taking out the last man, but one bad guy is better than tens of thousands. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 31, 2021, 02:34:45 PM

Yeah increased penalties for murder will surely solve the problem. Instead of one life sentence, why not impose two? Solves the problem immediately.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 02:39:05 PM

Not really. They can still kill all of the other inmates. Maybe a few guards too. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 31, 2021, 02:44:10 PM

I THINK at least some of this is a result of opening jails a year ago during COVID.  I didn't see anyone suggesting tougher penalties for murder as a solution.  But it's clear if we turned hardened criminals loose on society, they are going to criminal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 31, 2021, 02:45:23 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2021, 01:26:13 PM

It would be popular, but the three amigos are not tough on crime. That's the problem in Chicago right now. The mayor and CPD are not pleased with that group.

You don't think the mayor is part of the problem?  

I'm seriously asking.  I can't say that I follow Chicago's workings closely, but to the extent I do, I haven't seen much of anything from Lightfoot that impresses me.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 02:47:25 PM

Is anyone who is more sane than Lightfoot even electable in Chicago? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 31, 2021, 02:56:16 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 31, 2021, 02:44:10 PM

I THINK at least some of this is a result of opening jails a year ago during COVID.  I didn't see anyone suggesting tougher penalties for murder as a solution.  But it's clear if we turned hardened criminals loose on society, they are going to criminal.

Who knows? Overall crime has stayed the same or risen by a negligible rate. Homicides have gone up everywhere. Lots of guns sold in 2020, too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 31, 2021, 02:58:57 PM

The five college football teams that could give Georgia a close game (usatoday.com) (https://ugawire.usatoday.com/lists/5-college-football-teams-that-could-give-georgia-bulldogs-close-game-oklahoma-sooners-ohio-state-buckeyes-alabama-crimson-tide-ole-miss-rebels-michigan-state-spartans-uga/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=NFLdraftmaverickMike&fbclid=IwAR2GYm_-V2UvCrVJkvLdt_B7Qps8cmHYiOhVdJ9gBFMzvruPQfbMyKAa1m4)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2021, 03:02:22 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 31, 2021, 02:56:16 PM

Who knows? Overall crime has stayed the same or risen by a negligible rate. Homicides have gone up everywhere. Lots of guns sold in 2020, too.

Legally. Some of those were me.

Shooting up 220% in The Loop.

Wasn't me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2021, 03:04:36 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 31, 2021, 02:34:45 PM

Yeah increased penalties for murder will surely solve the problem. Instead of one life sentence, why not impose two? Solves the problem immediately.

The problem is they are mostly not catching anyone. The "code" doesn't allow for snitching.

The DA and Chief Judge release on little to no bond, and they are back on the street to commit more crimes. Some of those have gone on to commit murder. This is a problem. A really big problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 31, 2021, 03:05:58 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2021, 03:02:22 PM

Legally. Some of those were me.

Shooting up 220% in The Loop.

Wasn't me.

It's not the vast majority of people. Chicago has a population of 2.7 million.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2021, 03:08:42 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 31, 2021, 02:45:23 PM

You don't think the mayor is part of the problem? 

I'm seriously asking.  I can't say that I follow Chicago's workings closely, but to the extent I do, I haven't seen much of anything from Lightfoot that impresses me. 

The Mayor is week.

The County President, who Lightfoot TROUNCED in the last election, is also the chair of her party in Crook County. They are not friends. The former would do anything to embarrass the Mayor.

The Mayor is a former Federal Prosecutor, who ran on being tough on crime.

Her hands (as well as the Chief of Police)  are tied by the three amigos, who are all financially backed by George.

It's a dying City. Nothing will ever change.

The iron fist of old man Daley are long gone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2021, 03:10:34 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 31, 2021, 03:05:58 PM

It's not the vast majority of people. Chicago has a population of 2.7 million.

Used to be 3.7 million. That says a lot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 31, 2021, 04:04:07 PM

Her hands may be tied, but the stuff that comes out of her mouth is also telling.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 04:10:35 PM

What's the biggest city in the USA that isn't an absolute cesspool of crime? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 31, 2021, 04:16:34 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 31, 2021, 02:56:16 PM

Who knows? Overall crime has stayed the same or risen by a negligible rate. Homicides have gone up everywhere. Lots of guns sold in 2020, too.

Huh? 

I will quite a liberal source for you- 


https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/03/us/us-crime-rate-rise-2020/index.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 31, 2021, 04:27:42 PM

Perhaps your looking at some tainted narrative?

Here are som factual breakdowns:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/violent-crime-surged-across-america-liberal-narrative

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2021, 04:31:34 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 04:10:35 PM

What's the biggest city in the USA that isn't an absolute cesspool of crime?

Dallas/Fort Worth metro?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 04:39:17 PM

That's a cluster of cities. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2021, 04:49:53 PM

everything is bigger in Texas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2021, 04:53:55 PM

Georgia (63 first-place votes)
Cincinnati
Alabama
Oklahoma
Michigan State
Ohio State
Oregon
Notre Dame
Michigan
Wake Forest
Oklahoma State
Auburn
Texas A&M
Baylor
Ole Miss
UTSA
BYU
Kentucky
Iowa
Houston
Coastal Carolina
Penn State
SMU
Louisiana
Fresno State
Others Receiving Votes: Pittsburgh 117, North Carolina State 104, Wisconsin 91, Mississippi State 79, Arkansas 72, Minnesota 51, San Diego State 50, Appalachian State 23, Utah 11, Iowa State 9, Nevada 2

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 31, 2021, 05:08:48 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 31, 2021, 10:02:58 AM

I guess I've heard it described like that, though I don't go around talking about Columbus pizza. A chewy thin crust is best, cracker crusts are for birds.

Badge and I may disagree. All the Chicago thin crust I've had has had some chew to the crust. It's not cracker crispy. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 31, 2021, 05:12:35 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 31, 2021, 04:27:42 PM

Perhaps your looking at some tainted narrative?

Here are som factual breakdowns:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/violent-crime-surged-across-america-liberal-narrative

So even that source acknowledges that crime fell, but complains that it doesn't separate all different crimes into separate categories. Well, as I said, homicides rose (and shootings) though crime overall did not. So even that source agrees with me, and it is important to acknowledge. If "soft on crime" policies are to blame, why wouldn't all crimes rise? It's the main problem with the "touch on crime" crowd, which generally just looks to whatever to justify harsh penalties and police state style policies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 05:18:53 PM

Chicago doesn't get to claim two completely opposite pizza styles as their own.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 31, 2021, 05:22:58 PM

Played some golf this morning. Shot +15 (75 on a par-60 course). Not bad considering I was +5 through the first two holes, and +10 through the last 16 lol.

Tonight we'll be eating ribeye from our butcher shop and [grilled] baked potato. Gonna break out some of the high-dolla wine... 

I'm going to separate out all the good candy (i.e. Kit Kat and Reese's peanut butter cups) from the big bag we bought from Costco, and we'll keep the rest in a bowl for the trick-or-treaters. 

Downside: something's still wrong with the Flex. So I gotta mess with that crap tomorrow, and if I can't solve it, gotta actually pay a mechanic to fix it. 

I don't think I'd be afraid of being shot in Chicago. But I'm not sure we'll be going anytime soon. Pretty sure I'm going to drop some coin on that tastesofchicago.com site though, so thanks for that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 31, 2021, 05:25:21 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 05:18:53 PM

Chicago doesn't get to claim two completely opposite pizza styles as their own.

Sure we can. Both Chicago-style deep dish and Chicago-style thin crust are a thing.

I don't know much about Columbus-style pizza. I don't know if it's similar to Chicago-style thin crust. All I know is I've never had anything like Chicago-style thin crust outside Chicago. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 05:34:04 PM

Chicago style is already part of the American lexicon and it's the $40 tomato soup in a bread bowl that takes an hour to cook.

In Columbus 95% of the pizza available is cut in squares.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 31, 2021, 05:38:54 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 05:34:04 PM

Chicago style is already part of the American lexicon and it's the $40 tomato soup in a bread bowl that takes an hour to cook.

In Columbus 95% of the pizza available is cut in squares.

"Cut in squares" does not define a style of pizza.

As I've said, I don't know if Columbus-style is similar to Chicago-style thin crust. I've never had Columbus-style pizza. I'm claiming ignorance on that front.

But *IF* there are significant style differences between Columbus pizza and Chicago-style thin crust, then you can't say that Chicago-style thin crust isn't a unique style. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 31, 2021, 05:44:13 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 31, 2021, 05:12:35 PM

So even that source acknowledges that crime fell, but complains that it doesn't separate all different crimes into separate categories. Well, as I said, homicides rose (and shootings) though crime overall did not. So even that source agrees with me, and it is important to acknowledge. If "soft on crime" policies are to blame, why wouldn't all crimes rise? It's the main problem with the "touch on crime" crowd, which generally just looks to whatever to justify harsh penalties and police state style policies.

Violent crimes have increased substantially( if you include rape and robbery and violent crimes)

property crimes which are the most frequent have gone down clearly attributed to the lockdowns and pandemic. But violent crimes are clearly up and that trend is absolutely starkly different in larger cities versus rural areas.

defund the police movement clearly are having an Substantial negative impact on crime rates. That is what those numbers tell us.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 05:54:43 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 31, 2021, 05:38:54 PM

"Cut in squares" does not define a style of pizza.

As I've said, I don't know if Columbus-style is similar to Chicago-style thin crust. I've never had Columbus-style pizza. I'm claiming ignorance on that front.

But *IF* there are significant style differences between Columbus pizza and Chicago-style thin crust, then you can't say that Chicago-style thin crust isn't a unique style.

Cut in squares, edge to edge, thin crust, with no edge crust. Nobody outside of Chicago is going to picture that upon hearing the term "Chicago style pizza" because that term means something completely different in the American vernacular.
I mean it is cool that Columbus style is widely available and popular in Chicago. You can probably find NY style, Detroit style and even California style rather easily in Chicago as well, but that doesn't make them yours.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 31, 2021, 05:59:25 PM

Wow, if I was new here and read the last 4 pages of this, I'd probably never return.  (yes, I realize some of you would celebrate that)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 06:00:58 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 31, 2021, 05:59:25 PM

Wow, if I was new here and read the last 4 pages of this, I'd probably never return.  (yes, I realize some of you would celebrate that)

Let us know if you need any help packing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2021, 06:02:19 PM

Cut in squares, edge to edge, thin crust, with no edge crust.

That is a "Style"???

fine, but I doubt it originated in C-bus and was unique to that city

I can find this in the frozen food section in the grocery 

well, I have to cut it in squares my self

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 06:04:27 PM

Okay, everything from the Midwest belongs to Chicago. Why not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 31, 2021, 06:05:19 PM

Quote

. But violent crimes are clearly up and that trend is absolutely starkly different in larger cities versus rural areas

Little police presence in rural areas. Maybe defund the police are right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2021, 06:07:43 PM

screw Chi-town

where did pinneaple on pizza come from?   Hawaii?

how bout kraut on pizza?  wisconsin, minnesooota, ohio, michigan, Iowa???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2021, 06:08:56 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 31, 2021, 06:05:19 PM

Little police presence in rural areas. Maybe defund the police are right?

per capita? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 31, 2021, 06:13:55 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 31, 2021, 06:05:19 PM

Little police presence in rural areas. Maybe defund the police are right?

ok. 🙄

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 31, 2021, 06:14:47 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 05:54:43 PM

Cut in squares, edge to edge, thin crust, with no edge crust. Nobody outside of Chicago is going to picture that upon hearing the term "Chicago style pizza" because that term means something completely different in the American vernacular.
I mean it is cool that Columbus style is widely available and popular in Chicago. You can probably find NY style, Detroit style and even California style rather easily in Chicago as well, but that doesn't make them yours.

Ok, simple Google image search tells a story.

Critical factor of Chicago thin crust is cheese on top of toppings. Columbus appears to be toppings above cheese.

That seems more important than the shape it's cut into, right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 31, 2021, 06:20:18 PM

Never cared for what is typically referred to as Chicago style or deep dish pizza.

I do like this- and it is quite unique:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 31, 2021, 06:21:04 PM

The food discussion is interesting. How things get popular and spread is interesting. The Cali portions are almost quaint now - you can't swing a cat without finding a fish taco or "BBQ Chikcen Pizza." Have to search to find really new things that are actually difficult to find somewhere else. Columbus does have a very large Somali population - I suppose suqaar might qualify.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2021, 06:34:35 PM

roasting a split chicken breast with roasted taters for pre-game meal

nice lettuce salad with creamy Caesar dressing 

there will be plenty of beer with Cowboys/Vikings game!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 06:36:37 PM

At any rate Columbus is ALL IN on Chicago style thin crust. So much so that it is difficult to search out much else, unless you order it from a National chain.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 06:38:26 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 31, 2021, 06:07:43 PM

screw Chi-town

where did pinneaple on pizza come from?  Hawaii?

how bout kraut on pizza?  wisconsin, minnesooota, ohio, michigan, Iowa???

I don't know who invented pineapple pizza, but folks out here are obsessed with it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2021, 07:04:59 PM

my oldest daughter likes it

I don't mind it once in a while

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 31, 2021, 07:34:44 PM

Putting pineapple on pizza should get you ten years in prison. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 07:43:48 PM

Sam Panopoulos, a Greek-born Canadian, created the first Hawaiian pizza at the Satellite Restaurant in Chatham, Ontario, Canada in 1962.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 31, 2021, 07:46:38 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 07:43:48 PM

Sam Panopoulos, a Greek-born Canadian, created the first Hawaiian pizza at the Satellite Restaurant in Chatham, Ontario, Canada in 1962.

Ontario invented something and called hit Hawaiian 

If there's a more concrete example of visualizing where you want to be and not where you are, I've not seen it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 31, 2021, 07:50:24 PM

Canada's beautiful,and a lot less pricey than Hawaii,not nearly as toasty,specially with the volcanos.No sharks but Northern Pike and Musky so don't dangle your toes in the water

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2021, 07:54:59 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 07:43:48 PM

Sam Panopoulos, a Greek-born Canadian, created the first Hawaiian pizza at the Satellite Restaurant in Chatham, Ontario, Canada in 1962.

as far as we know............

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2021, 07:55:45 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on October 31, 2021, 07:34:44 PM

Putting pineapple on pizza should get you ten years in prison.

I won't disagree, but then list the short list of things that are allowed on a pizza

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 31, 2021, 08:27:31 PM

https://www.columbusunderground.com/yes-there-is-a-columbus-style-pizza-embrace-it-je1/

Quote

Tavern or Bar Style Pizza is the preferred style to native Chicagoans…most people do not know that outside of Chicago. It is similar to Columbus Style, but predates it by about 20 years. There is a strong Chicago connection to the Columbus style in the form of Jimmy Massey (but that is another story). So I asked my high school pal Mac who grew up in Columbus Style but has resided in the south side of Chicago for the lifetime of his college-age sons. Is there a difference between the pizza imprinted in his youth in Clintonville and what he consumes in the Chicago Southland?

Mac has some serious culinary chops, in addition to being a great cook and creator for all of his adult life, he was a chef at the Three Floyds Brewpub for many years and once prepared pizzas with the great antihero of Columbus Culinaristas, @Seligmansdog. Mac says Columbus Style is similar but different from his local bar pizza. I say Columbus Pizza is the parallelogram to the rhombus that is Chicago Bar / Tavern Pizza.

Apparently square pizza is a Midwest thing. That said, Chicago and Columbus have two distinct styles. Of course, Chicago was first...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 08:33:46 PM

Massey's was widely regarded as the first to serve that style in Columbus, although that was in some level of dispute. 

Massey's itself kind of sucks. Like a crappier version of Donatoes. 

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/tyuI1UDlVdw/maxresdefault.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 31, 2021, 08:35:31 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 31, 2021, 08:27:31 PM

https://www.columbusunderground.com/yes-there-is-a-columbus-style-pizza-embrace-it-je1/



Apparently square pizza is a Midwest thing. That said, Chicago and Columbus have two distinct styles. Of course, Chicago was first...

Does Chicago even count? It's a dead city after all. Might as well talk about the Aztecs inventing chili.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 08:38:03 PM

I would often have the lunch buffet at the Massey's next to my office. 

The pizzas that they set out on the buffet were pie cut, oddly enough. But otherwise they were square cut. 

(https://plowingthroughlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/buffet.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2021, 08:41:34 PM

the shape of the pieces that are cut   .... is that really a style or anything of substance?

round pizza, rectangular, square, triangle shaped  pizza - who cares?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 31, 2021, 08:42:30 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 31, 2021, 08:35:31 PM

Does Chicago even count? It's a dead city after all. Might as well talk about the Aztecs inventing chili.

Total shithole. But then it's not in south Florida, so that's obvious.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2021, 08:48:25 PM

largest city I lived in was Lincoln, NE in 1983

around 172,000

other than that, Muscatine, IA 1985 - around 22,000

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 09:00:43 PM

I'm just glad that we got the good kind of Chicago pizza, and not the more famous variety.

If Massey's is an accurate representation of what Chicago is cooking up, then I'd say we improved on it bigly over the years with Tommy's, Joseph's, etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 31, 2021, 09:42:24 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 09:00:43 PM

I'm just glad that we got the good kind of Chicago pizza, and not the more famous variety.

If Massey's is an accurate representation of what Chicago is cooking up, then I'd say we improved on it bigly over the years with Tommy's, Joseph's, etc.

As I've said, I have never had Columbus pizza, so I can't compare. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 09:44:26 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 31, 2021, 09:42:24 PM

As I've said, I have never had Columbus pizza, so I can't compare.

Might be able to try one at that SoCal place that serves up that Cincinnati, er, Chicago Chili.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 31, 2021, 09:47:34 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 31, 2021, 08:41:34 PM

the shape of the pieces that are cut  .... is that really a style or anything of substance?

round pizza, rectangular, square, triangle shaped  pizza - who cares?

You wouldn't think so, but my daughter gets all mad when we don't get "triangle pizza" even though every place around here besides Pizza Hut serves square cut pizza.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 11:22:59 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 31, 2021, 09:47:34 PM

You wouldn't think so, but my daughter gets all mad when we don't get "triangle pizza" even though every place around here besides Pizza Hut serves square cut pizza.

Borgata, dude


You're welcome


(https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/0d/9e/e9/77/ny-style-pepperoni-and.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 01, 2021, 12:44:50 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 31, 2021, 08:48:25 PM

largest city I lived in was Lincoln, NE in 1983

around 172,000

other than that, Muscatine, IA 1985 - around 22,000

Wow.  Diverse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 01:08:40 AM

Certainly more diverse than the Navajo reservation. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 08:41:16 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 31, 2021, 06:05:19 PM

Little police presence in rural areas. Maybe defund the police are right?

Those of us in rural areas are well armed and look out for each other. Violent gangs would not last long here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2021, 08:48:33 AM

The general concept that some unarmed folks could handle some 911 and other calls makes sense to me, IFF the dispatcher can tell the difference.  Right now, police are handling things like traffic accidents, which could be handled by traffic cops, like meter maids in effect.  Would that be ten percent of a force?  Probably more like 2-3%.

The main issue I see is not as much funding as staffing, a lot of city PDs are understaffed because they can't find and train recruits fast enough for some obvious reasons.

Were I on a Big City PD, I'd be looking for a job in the 'burbs.

And obviously folks who live in the country have "less need" for police presence, they have shovels or ditch diggers at minimum.  That is a dumb comparison.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 08:53:35 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 08:41:16 AM

Those of us in rural areas are well armed and look out for each other. Violent gangs would not last long here.

Uh...aren't violent gangs well armed and looking out for each other? That's pretty much the literal definition of a gang.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 08:54:59 AM

Quote

And obviously folks who live in the country have "less need" for police presence, they have shovels or ditch diggers at minimum.  That is a dumb comparison.

I mean...maybe. Letting people work out there own differences without government regulation is underrated. Well, it's highly rated until you frame it as a question about "stopping crime" and then everyone wants as much regulation as possible, at least for other people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 08:58:43 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 31, 2021, 11:22:59 PM

Borgata, dude


You're welcome


(https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/0d/9e/e9/77/ny-style-pepperoni-and.jpg)

Looks good and not too far from me - I'll give it a shot

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2021, 08:59:32 AM

In a city, one needs more government than in the country.  This is why there is such a large rural-urban divide.

I suppose we could enable everyone legally in a city to carry firearms, but few like that idea and it probably would engender unintended consequences.

I had some conversations with my "French cousins" about this.  They asked me why we didn't have a tall fence around our yards here in the US.  I mentioned nearly every house was heavily armed (which isn't true), but they nodded.  In France, houses in the suburbs are heavily fortified, in part because they say their police are pretty useless and they can't as readily own firearms.  Even the farmhouses in Normandy look like fortresses.

I am far more dependent on "government" here in the middle of a large city than I would be in the 'burbs, or in the country.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 01, 2021, 09:00:25 AM

Discussing Pizza,I'd like to give Detroit Style a shot try.Have seen it on cooking-travel shows prolly D,D & D being one of them.Decades ago some Guy used thick rimmed sheet just the right guage from the auto factories to cook his Pizzas in and the metal held/distributed heat just right.They have quite a following-fan base

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 01, 2021, 09:04:55 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 08:53:35 AM

Uh...aren't violent gangs well armed and looking out for each other? That's pretty much the literal definition of a gang.

Perhaps but rural folks most certainly have home field - certainly hope it never gets to this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2021, 09:08:33 AM

Violent gangs sound like they are violent, as opposed to heavily armed folks acting within the laws who are not violent unless attacked.

Sort of a major and obvious difference.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 09:08:50 AM

Quote

In a city, one needs more government than in the country.  This is why there is such a large rural-urban divide.

I doubt it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2021, 09:09:19 AM

Germany debates how to form gender-neutral words out of its gendered language : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2021/10/30/1049603171/germany-gender-neutral-language-german)

This cracks me up.  A major component of German and French et al. is genderosity of words, it's a pain for English speakers.

Der die das die.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2021, 09:12:49 AM

I take it as another sign as to how much "we" want to read about our teams, and how much "they" need clicks.

College football bowl projections after Week 9 (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/LongFormArticle/College-football-bowl-projections-after-Week-9-174234823/?fbclid=IwAR2mELm5Rvdyb2R0JWiq20KQeDDIx5ELWe4BPkebrTCs6j_BXg9EBdalg1I)

All this changes weekly, and they project every minor minor bowl game.  I can't for the life of me see why it means anything.

Except "we" want to read it I suppose.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 09:27:24 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 01, 2021, 09:08:33 AM

Violent gangs sound like they are violent, as opposed to heavily armed folks acting within the laws who are not violent unless attacked.

Sort of a major and obvious difference.

Maybe...what makes us think the violence isn't mostly just different groups of people responding to other violence in the community?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2021, 09:32:31 AM

Violence associated with gangs is illegal in nearly every instance and coupled with other illegal activities.  This is obvious of course, but you are welcome to somehow justify violent gangs as being somehow the same as rural folks who are armed and mind their own business.  I doubt anyone else sees much parallel.

Country folk tend to be peaceable in the main even if heavily armed.  And there are of course rural gangs as well.

Rural life leads to more independence and self sufficiency.  Folks often have a well and septic tank, they do need electricity and fuel, which they can buy untaxed if used in farm equipment (this gets abused).  The Co-op is often used and useful.  

My life here is quite different versus my life on my grandparent's farm back in the day.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 01, 2021, 09:33:22 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 01, 2021, 09:09:19 AM

Germany debates how to form gender-neutral words out of its gendered language : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2021/10/30/1049603171/germany-gender-neutral-language-german)

This cracks me up.  A major component of German and French et al. is genderosity of words, it's a pain for English speakers.

Der die das die.

That there's funny I don't care who you are.Auch du lieber comes to mind,which is I guees "My God" or "what the hell"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 09:34:53 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 08:53:35 AM

Uh...aren't violent gangs well armed and looking out for each other? That's pretty much the literal definition of a gang.

They are not well armed and not well trained in those arms. They have some toys that can fire a round, but they are NOT well armed. I have several rifles that could take them out long before they got close enough to begin to fire my way. And my firearms collection is laughable compared to several of my neighbors. 

We also train quite often. It is not unusual to hear gun fire around the neighborhood as a lot of my neighbors have rifle and pistol targets set up on their property. I have another neighbor about 2 miles away that has a set up that includes Trap, Skeet houses and rifle and pistol ranges. He asks for donations if people want to come and shoot. During the summer, another friend of mine go there on Thursday evenings and shoot rounds of trap. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 01, 2021, 09:35:26 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 09:08:50 AM

I doubt it

No doubt about it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 09:38:19 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 08:54:59 AM

I mean...maybe. Letting people work out there own differences without government regulation is underrated. Well, it's highly rated until you frame it as a question about "stopping crime" and then everyone wants as much regulation as possible, at least for other people.

You couldn't be more wrong. The only need we have for police is traffic enforcement. Out here in the sticks, we occasionally get people that believe that there are no speed limits. The stupid part is that they sometimes become predictable. For example, we had a guy that would fly down our road and blow the stop sign down at the corner cross roads every day at about the same time. After a few times of this, we called the sheriff and he had a deputy set up waiting for him. I took about 1 or 2 days and he was stopped. Haven't seen him since.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 09:38:52 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 09:34:53 AM

They are not well armed and not well trained in those arms. They have some toys that can fire a round, but they are NOT well armed. I have several rifles that could take them out long before they got close enough to begin to fire my way. And my firearms collection is laughable compared to several of my neighbors.

We also train quite often. It is not unusual to hear gun fire around the neighborhood as a lot of my neighbors have rifle and pistol targets set up on their property. I have another neighbor about 2 miles away that has a set up that includes Trap, Skeet houses and rifle and pistol ranges. He asks for donations if people want to come and shoot. During the summer, another friend of mine go there on Thursday evenings and shoot rounds of trap.

Granted, they aren't as well funded. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2021, 09:39:17 AM

Urban gangs prefer pistols, and maybe the occasional Mac.  They fire pretty much randomly large quantities of wasted ammo.  I can't see how many of them would be well trained in shooting, and evidence says most are not.  Spray and pray.

Hunters and the like would take them out at long range if it came to it, meaning anything over 50 meters really.  So yeah, they are not well trained and their arms are not useful in a real fight.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 01, 2021, 09:39:48 AM

Tesla stock continues to soar. Elon Musk now worth over $300 billion (on paper) according to Bloomberg's Billionaire index. He's now worth $100+ billion more than the second richest person and first biggest jerk off in the world, Jeff Bezos.

Just wait til SpaceX goes public. This guy is going to be the first "official" trillionaire when it's all said and done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 09:41:23 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 01, 2021, 09:32:31 AM

Violence associated with gangs is illegal in nearly every instance and coupled with other illegal activities.  This is obvious of course, but you are welcome to somehow justify violent gangs as being somehow the same as rural folks who are armed and mind their own business.  I doubt anyone else sees much parallel.

Country folk tend to be peaceable in the main even if heavily armed.  And there are of course rural gangs as well.

Rural life leads to more independence and self sufficiency.  Folks often have a well and septic tank, they do need electricity and fuel, which they can buy untaxed if used in farm equipment (this gets abused).  The Co-op is often used and useful. 

My life here is quite different versus my life on my grandparent's farm back in the day. 

You have just described my setup. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 09:42:12 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 01, 2021, 09:35:26 AM

No doubt about it

I highly doubt it. If needing more government is important to city folk, why do "Defund the police" movements come from big cities? The whole thing doesn't make much sense after a cursory review. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 09:42:34 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 09:38:52 AM

Granted, they aren't as well funded.

Funding has nothing to do with it. They generally steal what they have, I have to pay for mine. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 09:43:52 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 09:38:19 AM

You couldn't be more wrong. The only need we have for police is traffic enforcement. Out here in the sticks, we occasionally get people that believe that there are no speed limits. The stupid part is that they sometimes become predictable. For example, we had a guy that would fly down our road and blow the stop sign down at the corner cross roads every day at about the same time. After a few times of this, we called the sheriff and he had a deputy set up waiting for him. I took about 1 or 2 days and he was stopped. Haven't seen him since. 

Ok? Not really sure how that is relevant to my point. You said you and your neighbors are well armed and would respond to threats with extreme violence. Ok, fine. How is that any different from neighborhood gangs?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 09:44:43 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 09:42:34 AM

Funding has nothing to do with it. They generally steal what they have, I have to pay for mine.

Funding has everything to do with it. You can't go on and on about how many guns you pay for and how much training you have then say money doesn't affect that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 09:45:24 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 09:42:12 AM

I highly doubt it. If needing more government is important to city folk, why do "Defund the police" movements come from big cities? The whole thing doesn't make much sense after a cursory review.

You do realize that law enforcement is simply one aspect of things funded by government don't you? They are not asking for a cut in spending, they want that money to go to other social programs to prop up their lives. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2021, 09:45:51 AM

Gangs obviously operate illegally, and are violent as a result.  There is a pretty simple difference here, one is illegal, the other group is legal.

The law is important, except when it isn't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 09:46:22 AM

Quote

Urban gangs prefer pistols, and maybe the occasional Mac.  They fire pretty much randomly large quantities of wasted ammo.  I can't see how many of them would be well trained in shooting, and evidence says most are not.  Spray and pray.

Hunters and the like would take them out at long range if it came to it, meaning anything over 50 meters really.  So yeah, they are not well trained and their arms are not useful in a real fight.

They need pistols because they get arrested for having weapons and rifles are a lot tougher to hide. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 09:46:31 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 09:43:52 AM

Ok? Not really sure how that is relevant to my point. You said you and your neighbors are well armed and would respond to threats with extreme violence. Ok, fine. How is that any different from neighborhood gangs?

We don't go out looking for fights or committing crimes. We just take care of ourselves and our neighbors. As I said, the violent gangs and thugs would not last long here. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 09:47:59 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 09:45:24 AM

You do realize that law enforcement is simply one aspect of things funded by government don't you? They are not asking for a cut in spending, they want that money to go to other social programs to prop up their lives.

Wouldn't you want money spent to be devoted to propping up your life instead of being arrested and put in jail? Though, like most people, they would rather be left alone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 09:48:39 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 09:44:43 AM

Funding has everything to do with it. You can't go on and on about how many guns you pay for and how much training you have then say money doesn't affect that.

Yes it costs money. But when talking about criminals and their ability to train, cost is irrelevant as they generally steal what they have in the first place. So really the constraint of funding affects the law abiding more than the criminals. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 09:49:15 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 09:46:31 AM

We don't go out looking for fights or committing crimes. We just take care of ourselves and our neighbors. As I said, the violent gangs and thugs would not last long here.

Well, I grew up in a rural area and there was no shortage of teenagers looking to get in fights and mess around.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2021, 09:49:22 AM

Even the trolling notion that country folk are somehow equivalent to urban gangs in any sense is amusing, and stupid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 09:50:52 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 09:48:39 AM

Yes it costs money. But when talking about criminals and their ability to train, cost is irrelevant as they generally steal what they have in the first place. So really the constraint of funding affects the law abiding more than the criminals.

Well, if they want a gun, and can't afford it, how should they get one? Also, don't they have far, far more need of a weapon than you do?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 09:51:06 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 09:46:22 AM

They need pistols because they get arrested for having weapons and rifles are a lot tougher to hide.

I own pistols and rifles and have carried them in public. I don't get arrested even when out in public with one or the other because I obey the laws and treat others with respect. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 01, 2021, 09:51:29 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 09:42:12 AM

I highly doubt it. If needing more government is important to city folk, why do "Defund the police" movements come from big cities? The whole thing doesn't make much sense after a cursory review.

Because most big cities are run by corrupt morons? I don't know. 

We don't need to defund the police. We need to demilitarize the police, in my opinion. And we also need to change the drug laws and end this stupid wasteful "war on drugs". 

Oh and the "liberal" hero "you ain't black if you don't vote for me" Joe Biden- is literally one of the architects of the explosion of the prison population- and many of the millions of black and brown people that have been rotting in for-profit prisons and jails for decades for minor drug charges- can be almost completely attributed to him. FYI. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 09:51:33 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 01, 2021, 09:49:22 AM

Even the trolling notion that country folk are somehow equivalent to urban gangs in any sense is amusing, and stupid.

I have to be honest here - it's clear you don't have even the foggiest idea what you are talking about.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 09:52:33 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 09:47:59 AM

Wouldn't you want money spent to be devoted to propping up your life instead of being arrested and put in jail? Though, like most people, they would rather be left alone.

Unfortunately, there are those in their communities that don't feel that way and have no problems violating others desire to be left alone. Therefore the need for police presence and protection. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 09:52:54 AM

the town of 500 folks where I grew up and worked and the town of 300 where I've lived for the past 30+ years don't have a "town cop".  The town of 500 did for years but it became less expensive to have the county sheriff deputies drive through regularly and respond to issues rather than employ someone fulltime maybe part time.

The small town of less than 2,000 people to my east has 3 fulltime policemen.

the rural area of the county, not counting the city of 70,000 has around 35,000 people - this area is under the Sheriff's watch.  not sure how many deputies are employed, but there are 2 or 3 on patrol at all times

there are also stat highways running through the county that are patrolled by the state highway patrol 

many here think it is overkill for the amount of crime and calls.

I'd guess the law enforcement numbers per capita are stronger here than in major cities, with far less crime.

bottomline is:  if there is a crime reported, law enforcement will show up in a few minutes

this doesn't seem to be the case in many large cities such as Chicago

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 09:54:26 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 09:49:15 AM

Well, I grew up in a rural area and there was no shortage of teenagers looking to get in fights and mess around.

I never claimed otherwise. We have the same. The difference is that there are boundaries that those teens know not to cross (lethal force for one). Also, as we pretty much know most of those teens and their parents, or at the very least know someone that does, sometimes a simple phone call will take care of that problem. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 09:55:13 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 09:52:33 AM

Unfortunately, there are those in their communities that don't feel that way and have no problems violating others desire to be left alone. Therefore the need for police presence and protection.

I mean, sure, crime does exist. My point is there seems to be this idea that having weapons and defending your communities is a good thing. But when certain people do this, it is a bad thing. Where is the line here? Shouldn't we expect low income communities where crime is higher to be more protective and thereby have more violence?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2021, 09:58:16 AM

I haven't seen a soul claim that having weapons and defending one's community is a bad thing only if "certain people do it", unless those folks are largely engaged in illegal activities.

So, yeah, if criminals do this, it's a bad thing, in my book.  If a law abiding citizen does it, it's not.

Legal versus illegal, simple comparison.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 09:58:33 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 09:50:52 AM

Well, if they want a gun, and can't afford it, how should they get one? Also, don't they have far, far more need of a weapon than you do?

Well, they could get a job and earn the money, you know, like our forefathers have done for hundreds of years. 

As to your claim that they need a gun more than I do, I have not said that they cannot get one. They are free to do as they wish within the framework of the law. Also, the fact that the people in my neighborhood have armed themselves and taught themselves how to use those weapons has made the need greatly diminished. Perhaps if we were unarmed and depending upon the government to take care of us, the need would be greater. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:02:21 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 01, 2021, 09:58:16 AM

Legal versus illegal, simple comparison.

LOL, yeah ok whatever

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:03:38 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 09:58:33 AM

Well, they could get a job and earn the money, you know, like our forefathers have done for hundreds of years.

As to your claim that they need a gun more than I do, I have not said that they cannot get one. They are free to do as they wish within the framework of the law. Also, the fact that the people in my neighborhood have armed themselves and taught themselves how to use those weapons has made the need greatly diminished. Perhaps if we were unarmed and depending upon the government to take care of us, the need would be greater.

So...generally you would be against gun control laws in cities and excessive police enforcement, right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:05:09 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 09:55:13 AM

I mean, sure, crime does exist. My point is there seems to be this idea that having weapons and defending your communities is a good thing. But when certain people do this, it is a bad thing. Where is the line here? 

When defending your illegal activity by violence, that is the line. 

Quote

Shouldn't we expect low income communities where crime is higher to be more protective and thereby have more violence?

Think about it this way. You are a criminal and don't care about other peoples privacy or their property rights. You wish to steal something to pawn or somehow make money. You have a choice between 2 homes. One is occupied by a little old lady that has not ability to fight back. The other is occupied by a former Marine that is well armed. Which home do you invade?

Now consider that ALL of the homes are occupied by well armed people, well trained in how to use those arms. How likely are you to want to break into any home?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:06:30 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:02:21 AM

LOL, yeah ok whatever

You don't discern a difference between legal and illegal activity? That could be your problem. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 01, 2021, 10:09:21 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:05:09 AM

When defending your illegal activity by violence, that is the line.

Think about it this way. You are a criminal and don't care about other peoples privacy or their property rights. You wish to steal something to pawn or somehow make money. You have a choice between 2 homes. One is occupied by a little old lady that has not ability to fight back. The other is occupied by a former Marine that is well armed. Which home do you invade?

Now consider that ALL of the homes are occupied by well armed people, well trained in how to use those arms. How likely are you to want to break into any home?

THIS

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:09:44 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:03:38 AM

So...generally you would be against gun control laws in cities and excessive police enforcement, right?

As to your comment about excessive police enforcement, where did I mention that? Having adequate law enforcement available in areas where crime is prevalent, is a good thing. YOU are the one that seems to be equating that to excessive police enforcement.

As to gun control laws, I feel that any gun control law is unconstitutional. The 2nd Amendment clearly states that the right to keep and bear arms, shall NOT be infringed. Therefore, any law that states that I cannot have and carry a firearm is NOT in compliance with the Constitution.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:09:57 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:06:30 AM

You don't discern a difference between legal and illegal activity? That could be your problem.

I, of course, do discern a difference. The idea that that is an easy and quick justification or analysis is incredibly naïve. It's one of those things people have debated and debated to death with no real answers. Further, it is always bizarre when people who tell me the government is often unnecessary and does a lot of overreach suddenly think the most important thing is what the government thinks about any particular action.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:11:59 AM

Quote

Think about it this way. You are a criminal and don't care about other peoples privacy or their property rights. You wish to steal something to pawn or somehow make money. You have a choice between 2 homes. One is occupied by a little old lady that has not ability to fight back. The other is occupied by a former Marine that is well armed. Which home do you invade?

Now consider that ALL of the homes are occupied by well armed people, well trained in how to use those arms. How likely are you to want to break into any home?

Burglaries are quite wrong. But burglaries haven't appeared to increase in any meaningful way. Shooting and homicides have. So that is mainly what I'm talking about, not a general defense of all crime.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:13:35 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:09:44 AM

As to your comment about excessive police enforcement, where did I mention that? Having adequate law enforcement available in areas where crime is prevalent, is a good thing. YOU are the one that seems to be equating that to excessive police enforcement.

As to gun control laws, I feel that any gun control law is unconstitutional. The 2nd Amendment clearly states that the right to keep and bear arms, shall NOT be infringed. Therefore, any law that states that I cannot have and carry a firearm is NOT in compliance with the Constitution.

A large part of policing in cities (and I mean a LARGE part) is trying to locate guns, arrest people with guns, etc. Wouldn't you consider that excessive considering you think their actions are unconstitutional?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 01, 2021, 10:18:11 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:09:57 AM

I, of course, do discern a difference. The idea that that is an easy and quick justification or analysis is incredibly naïve. It's one of those things people have debated and debated to death with no real answers. Further, it is always bizarre when people who tell me the government is often unnecessary and does a lot of overreach suddenly think the most important thing is what the government thinks about any particular action.

Talk about overreach how bout the DOJ looking into school board meetings to arrest parents who protest

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:19:16 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:09:57 AM

I, of course, do discern a difference. The idea that that is an easy and quick justification or analysis is incredibly naïve.

I don't know, but breaking into a home or property, stealing someone else's property or causing harm to another person without justification (self defense) is pretty straight forward. Also, I don't have to shoot someone from preventing a crime. Just the simple implication that lethal force is an option may be enough to stop the crime in question. This is always the preferred outcome. Hold the suspect until law enforcement is able to take control of the scene. At that point, it is up to the LEO or the courts to sort out the situation.

Quote

 It's one of those things people have debated and debated to death with no real answers. Further, it is always bizarre when people who tell me the government is often unnecessary and does a lot of overreach suddenly think the most important thing is what the government thinks about any particular action.

I have not seen anyone claim that government is unnecessary. There is a difference between some government and excessive government. What we are experiencing now is a push to excessive government. 

But your original point was that you appeared to side with the notion that we should do away with law enforcement. While I stated that it would most likely not affect me, that was not to say that I agreed with it. My implication was that it would be less harmful to me than it would be to those in the urban areas that are generally much more at risk. 

Personally, my version of the world is a government that is constrained by our Constitution where the only job of our government is to protect our rights. That is how the founders envisioned this nation. It is the duty of the citizens to provide for and take care of themselves and their neighbors. Most of us in rural areas live that way as much as possible. Therefore a reduction is law enforcement would not affect us nearly as bad as it would those in urban areas that are unable to defend or care for themselves. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:21:51 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:11:59 AM

Burglaries are quite wrong. But burglaries haven't appeared to increase in any meaningful way. Shooting and homicides have. So that is mainly what I'm talking about, not a general defense of all crime.

Burglaries are down because a lot of people are not going to work because they are working from home or unemployed. Criminals are less likely to break into an occupied home during the day than they would an unoccupied. 

Shootings and homicides are up because many municipalities have taken a stance of allowing criminals to be released back into the public shortly after being picked up thereby allowing them to commit further crimes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 01, 2021, 10:22:37 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:13:35 AM

Wouldn't you consider that excessive considering you think their actions are unconstitutional?

Not if an offender has commited felonies

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 01, 2021, 10:22:55 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 01, 2021, 10:18:11 AM

Talk about overreach how bout the DOJ looking into school board meetings to arrest parents who protest

Wandering away from overreach territory and meandering towards tyranny.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:26:13 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:13:35 AM

A large part of policing in cities (and I mean a LARGE part) is trying to locate guns, arrest people with guns, etc. Wouldn't you consider that excessive considering you think their actions are unconstitutional?

That is a pretty broad and open ended description of what is going on. WHY are they looking for these guns? As far as I know, there are very few laws on the books that prevent people without felony convictions of possessing firearms in their homes. So who's guns are LEO looking for? Are they going to felons homes looking for guns? Do they have a warrant to look? Who tipped them off to look? Why are they looking? Was this person identified as potentially committing a crime with a gun?

I don't know why this is happening or how often to have an opinion on whether or not it is excessive. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:26:23 AM

Quote

I don't know, but breaking into a home or property, stealing someone else's property or causing harm to another person without justification (self defense) is pretty straight forward. Also, I don't have to shoot someone from preventing a crime. Just the simple implication that lethal force is an option may be enough to stop the crime in question. This is always the preferred outcome. Hold the suspect until law enforcement is able to take control of the scene. At that point, it is up to the LEO or the courts to sort out the situation.

What if you know someone wants to kill you? Do you try to get them first? OR call the police and hope they protect you?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:27:15 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 01, 2021, 10:22:55 AM

Wandering away from overreach territory and meandering towards tyranny. 

But if we call in the National Guard to police protests, that isn't tyranny?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 01, 2021, 10:29:42 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:26:23 AM

What if you know someone wants to kill you? Do you try to get them first? OR call the police and hope they protect you?

Police have been defunded ,next question

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:29:54 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 01, 2021, 09:00:25 AM

Discussing Pizza,I'd like to give Detroit Style a shot try.Have seen it on cooking-travel shows prolly D,D & D being one of them.Decades ago some Guy used thick rimmed sheet just the right guage from the auto factories to cook his Pizzas in and the metal held/distributed heat just right.They have quite a following-fan base

Detroit probably got the idea from Chicago.


(https://i.redd.it/1dgldcjjt2551.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 01, 2021, 10:30:32 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 09:08:50 AM

I doubt it

There's a clear correlation between poverty and crime, and quantifiable differences in poverty between urban vs. rural.  Seems clear rural areas have less need of policing.  

Life is "different" in cities vs. rural areas, but imo that doesn't account for higher crime and thus it's not needed to debate the various differences.  Alleviate poverty in cities, there'll be less crime.  It's the same thing in rural areas.  Crime is mostly committed by people from impoverished households....there just aren't nearly as many of them.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:30:46 AM

Quote

There is a difference between some government and excessive government. What we are experiencing now is a push to excessive government. 

But your original point was that you appeared to side with the notion that we should do away with law enforcement.

I'm not against law enforcement. The EPA has a whole law enforcement arm, which can be quite necessary. Also can have overreach? It's the same with police, and every other government agency. Saying idly that we need more government to reduce crime seems to give a little too much credit to the government.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 01, 2021, 10:31:51 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:27:15 AM

But if we call in the National Guard to police protests, that isn't tyranny?

As long as they're allowed to protest and the Guard is there to ensure order, I'd say no.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:33:07 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:27:15 AM

But if we call in the National Guard to police protests, that isn't tyranny?

Is the protest peaceful? Do those protesting have a history of vandalism, arson and other nefarious activities? Are the police already stretched thin due to cuts that were implemented in response to the calls to defund the police? 

You are making statements of things minus context in an attempt to make a point. My suspicion is that you are not comfortable with your position, so you are throwing things at the wall trying to find something that will stick. That is not a good strategy to defend your position. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 01, 2021, 10:33:58 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:29:54 AM

Detroit probably got the idea from Chicago.

The examples I saw were somewhere in between that and thin crust.So more like "The Works".I gues the secret is having pans like that - or it certainly helps

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:34:58 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:33:07 AM

Is the protest peaceful? Do those protesting have a history of vandalism, arson and other nefarious activities? Are the police already stretched thin due to cuts that were implemented in response to the calls to defund the police?

You are making statements of things minus context in an attempt to make a point. My suspicion is that you are not comfortable with your position, so you are throwing things at the wall trying to find something that will stick. That is not a good strategy to defend your position.

I am very comfortable with my position. I don't understand how it is "tyranny" for the Department of Justice to look at a protest and do nothing, but not tyranny if the National Guard is called in to be at the protest to provide "order." Feel free to explain it to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 01, 2021, 10:36:03 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:27:15 AM

But if we call in the National Guard to police protests, that isn't tyranny?

not a good comparison

the NG is there to control violence not to arrest folks for protesting

secondly the NG is called out by the state not the national government

in this case the national gov is monitoring a local state matter and trying to intimidate

parents from voicing objections to how a school district is run

scary

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:36:47 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 01, 2021, 10:33:58 AM

The examples I saw were somewhere in between that and thin crust.So more like "The Works".I gues the secret is having pans like that - or it certainly helps

Detorit pizza generally thick crust, greasy crispy bottom, with crispy cheese on the sides. There is the whole sauce on top thing. Not sure if that is all Detroit style or whatever. It's pretty good - my recollection of what Pizza Hut pan pizza was when I was kid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:37:45 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 01, 2021, 10:36:03 AM

not a good comparison

the NG is there to control violence not to arrest folks for protesting

secondly the NG is called out by the state not the national government

in this case the national gov is monitoring a local state matter and trying to intimidate

parents from voicing objections to how a school district is run

scary

Frankly I'm more scared of someone with a gun directed to order me what to do, but I guess to each their own.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 01, 2021, 10:40:53 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:37:45 AM

Frankly I'm more scared of someone with a gun directed to order me what to do, but I guess to each their own.

Is that someone local law enforcement?  If you object then obey the law and no problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:40:57 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:30:46 AM

I'm not against law enforcement. The EPA has a whole law enforcement arm, which can be quite necessary. Also can have overreach? 

The EPA, the IRS,  the Post Office and most other Fed Gov't agencies that have law enforcement is overreach as the Federal Government already has a LE agency knows as the FBI. These other agencies are the very definition of "Overreach". 

Quote

It's the same with police, and every other government agency. Saying idly that we need more government to reduce crime seems to give a little too much credit to the government.

Once again, you move the goal posts. You are implying that those of us opposed to defunding the police are advocating for yet increases to police. Where has anyone made that argument? 

What I am saying, and I'm sure that there are others that may agree with me, is that we need law enforcement in areas where the crime rate is high. The notion that is being bandied about by many in these large cities is that if we reduce the number of police on the street and instead fund yet more social programs that crime would decrease or even go away. That completely ignores the fact that humans by nature are not perfect and that a number of people will take advantage of the situation and abuse their community for their own personal gain. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 10:41:03 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:37:45 AM

Frankly I'm more scared of someone with a gun directed to order me what to do, but I guess to each their own.

perhaps you should spend a few nights on the streets of downtown Chicago

then decide if the cops or the thugs are more scary

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:45:27 AM

Quote

You are implying that those of us opposed to defunding the police are advocating for yet increases to police. Where has anyone made that argument? 

I'm not implying any such thing. I am pointing out that police are just another way government gets people to follow the law. Really, the criminal justice system is the most intrusive part of any government. But too often it feels like they will get a pass, and people then endlessly go on about the far less intrusive government agencies. They all deserve scrutiny, and criminal law enforcement deserves the most scrutiny because they are the most intrusive. Frankly, some cities have reduced their police budgets with no impact on crime whatsoever. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:46:06 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 01, 2021, 10:18:11 AM

Talk about overreach how bout the DOJ looking into school board meetings to arrest parents who protest

The Left absolutely loves a police state, so long as they are the ones that get to control it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:48:12 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:34:58 AM

I am very comfortable with my position. I don't understand how it is "tyranny" for the Department of Justice to look at a protest and do nothing, but not tyranny if the National Guard is called in to be at the protest to provide "order." Feel free to explain it to me.

It depends upon how these things are managed.

The Biden Admin called on the FBI to get involved with parents attending school board meetings with the idea that there have been numerous instances of violence or threats of violence directed towards school board members. While there may have been a few instances, those instances are easily handled by local law enforcement and is NOT within the jurisdiction of the FBI. 

It has been argued that the actual reason for directing the FBI to look into school board issues is to intimidate parents into thinking twice about voicing their concerns to their local school board less they face possible federal charges being levied against them, thus silencing a number of these parents actively getting involved in their child's education.

Calling in the National Guard to protect home and business owners from having their property vandalized or burned down by groups that have already demonstrated that they are more than willing to do such is simply aiding law enforcement with the resources available to the governor. Not too many people will vote for a governor that allowed "peaceful protesters" to burn down their cities. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:49:22 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:46:06 AM

The Left absolutely loves a police state, so long as they are the ones that get to control it.

The Right also loves a police state, so long as it's the other people getting policed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:50:48 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:37:45 AM

Frankly I'm more scared of someone with a gun directed to order me what to do, but I guess to each their own.

So if you are in your car during a major sporting event and there is a cop directing traffic, are you scared when you see him if he has a sidearm?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 01, 2021, 10:52:27 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:49:22 AM

The Right also loves a police state, so long as it's the other people getting policed.

and yet the current administration has created more of a police state then the right ever did

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:53:29 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 01, 2021, 10:52:27 AM

and yet the current administration has created more of a police state then the right ever did

Haven't seen any evidence of that at all. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:53:59 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:50:48 AM

So if you are in your car during a major sporting event and there is a cop directing traffic, are you scared when you see him if he has a sidearm?

Hell of a lot more scared than the idea that the DOJ is looking at intersections

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:54:53 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:49:22 AM

The Right also loves a police state, so long as it's the other people getting policed.

That was hardly a denial, lol. 

Thanks for the admission. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:55:45 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:54:53 AM

That was hardly a denial, lol.

Thanks for the admission.

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/H3N0cu89FUOaB5CTbv/giphy.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:58:26 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:45:27 AM

I'm not implying any such thing. I am pointing out that police are just another way government gets people to follow the law. 

Yes, that is their mission in a nutshell. You don't often see people breaking the law in the face of a LEO for a good reason. The question is, are they enforcing laws that you disagree with. If so, take it up with the politicians. The police enforce the laws on the books, not just the ones you agree with. 

Quote

Really, the criminal justice system is the most intrusive part of any government.

Personally, I feel that the IRS is the most intrusive part of our government. They know how much I make, how much I spend and are more that willing to stick their nose into my financial affairs if they feel the need. I have yet to have a LEO come close to this in my life. But I also tend to follow the law, so there is not need for LEO's to stick their nose in my business.

Quote

But too often it feels like they will get a pass, and people then endlessly go on about the far less intrusive government agencies. 

I don't know about that. With the advent of cell phone camera's, it seems to me that police are some of the most scrutinized government workers there are any more. 

Quote

They all deserve scrutiny, and criminal law enforcement deserves the most scrutiny because they are the most intrusive. 

Yes they all deserve scrutiny, but you seem to imply that the police deserve more. Yes there are bad cops out there and when caught, should be tried for any crimes or violations that they commit. And if convicted, should be sentenced to the fullest extent of the law. But I also feel the same about ANY one that receives a pay check from the government.

Quote

Frankly, some cities have reduced their police budgets with no impact on crime whatsoever.

Name one. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:59:06 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:53:59 AM

Hell of a lot more scared than the idea that the DOJ is looking at intersections

I didn't know that the DOY looked at intersections. You should seek help.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:59:15 AM

Most here would be arrested for their posts if Sam had anything to say about it.

Thinking unauthorized thoughts, and expressing them to others. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 01, 2021, 10:59:58 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:53:29 AM

Haven't seen any evidence of that at all.

mask mandates

school board meetings

flying illegals all over the country in the dead of night for resettlement

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 11:00:10 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:59:15 AM

Most here would be arrested for their posts if Sam had anything to say about it.

Ah yes, that's me, always trying to get people arrested. Bravo

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 11:00:57 AM

You are a White liberal stereotype, are you not? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 11:01:41 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 01, 2021, 10:59:58 AM

mask mandates

school board meetings

flying illegals all over the country in the dead of night for resettlement

Let's not forget vaccine mandates and firing those that don't comply. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 11:01:59 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 01, 2021, 08:59:32 AM

I am far more dependent on "government" here in the middle of a large city than I would be in the 'burbs, or in the country.

I’ve asked this a few times and maybe missed the answer. How do you mean this?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 11:04:12 AM

Quote

Yes, that is their mission in a nutshell. You don't often see people breaking the law in the face of a LEO for a good reason. The question is, are they enforcing laws that you disagree with. If so, take it up with the politicians. The police enforce the laws on the books, not just the ones you agree with. 

Actually, this is wrong. Even you know this is wrong - in your community the police don't just run around trying to enforce every law. They are called when needed, like when some dumbass runs a stop sign all the time. Come take a look and try to solve the problem. Not tell you that every street deserves the same enforcement and all laws need enforced in the same way. 

Quote

Yes they all deserve scrutiny, but you seem to imply that the police deserve more. Yes there are bad cops out there and when caught, should be tried for any crimes or violations that they commit. And if convicted, should be sentenced to the fullest extent of the law. But I also feel the same about ANY one that receives a pay check from the government.

I don't necessarily mean scrutiny as in make sure the policeman is following the law (though that is obviously important). I mean scrutiny in is this government policy and action actually making the community better and safer. From what I've seen, the answer to that question is often no.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 11:05:17 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 11:00:57 AM

You are a White liberal stereotype, are you not?

Sadly, I am not. I argue with liberals about this as much as I do with whatever Republicans are now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 01, 2021, 11:06:20 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 11:01:59 AM

I’ve asked this a few times and maybe missed the answer. How do you mean this?

a partof the answer is more crime in the city hence the need for more gov protection

also more traffic on highways in city which results in the need for more traffic law enforcement

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 11:06:58 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 11:01:59 AM

I’ve asked this a few times and maybe missed the answer. How do you mean this?

Another guy who would no doubt advocate for thought crimes, arresting people for what they post. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 01, 2021, 11:08:31 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 11:05:17 AM

I argue with liberals about this as much as I do with whatever Republicans are now.

Really?You post this much on another board?Hardly leaves enough time for work/sleep/family ;D

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 11:08:34 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 01, 2021, 09:58:16 AM

I haven't seen a soul claim that having weapons and defending one's community is a bad thing only if "certain people do it", unless those folks are largely engaged in illegal activities.

So, yeah, if criminals do this, it's a bad thing, in my book.  If a law abiding citizen does it, it's not.

Legal versus illegal, simple comparison.

Sounds like we need a lot more arms in South Chi, then. Just form what looks like a gang, but doesn’t sell drugs, and we’re on the right side of the moral compass.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 11:08:47 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 11:06:58 AM

Another guy who would no doubt advocate for thought crimes, arresting people for what they post.

Maybe they can call the National Guard in to provide order on the message boards

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 11:09:07 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 11:05:17 AM

Sadly, I am not. I argue with liberals about this as much as I do with whatever Republicans are now.

Where do you do that? It certainly isn't here, where you enthusiastically carry water for Joe Biden of all people. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 11:09:37 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 11:08:47 AM

Maybe they can call the National Guard in to provide order on the message boards

T'is the Leftist way.

In Europe people get arrested all the time for what they post. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 01, 2021, 11:11:18 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 11:05:17 AM

Sadly, I am not. I argue with liberals about this as much as I do with whatever Republicans are now.

racists,  bigots, homophobic

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 11:13:04 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:58:26 AM

Yes, that is their mission in a nutshell. You don't often see people breaking the law in the face of a LEO for a good reason. The question is, are they enforcing laws that you disagree with. If so, take it up with the politicians. The police enforce the laws on the books, not just the ones you agree with.

police enforce the laws they agree with

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 11:13:54 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:19:16 AM

I don't know, but breaking into a home or property, stealing someone else's property or causing harm to another person without justification (self defense) is pretty straight forward. Also, I don't have to shoot someone from preventing a crime. Just the simple implication that lethal force is an option may be enough to stop the crime in question.

I sometimes wonder if the loss of this as a deterrent is how we end up in violence spirals.

In theory, if you raise your gun to a potential criminal, and they respond in kind, and they’re more willing to shoot than you, you end up with a lot of folks foolhardy enough to pull triggers. I mean, the threat of violence is super real in South Chi, but it doesn’t seem to deter as one would hope.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 01, 2021, 11:14:11 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/yICu32P.png)
You Can't Fight In Here! This is The War Room!"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 01, 2021, 11:16:21 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 11:13:04 AM

police enforce the laws they agree with

Not all of them,the ones I know/knew were a reflection somewhat of society.Paul Newman portrayed this pretty well in Fort Apache:The Bronx IMO

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 01, 2021, 11:16:31 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 01, 2021, 11:11:18 AM

racists,  bigots, homophobic

Really?  I know a lot of Republicans.  None of them are racists, bigots, or homophobes.

I don't agree with a lot of their views (just as I don't agree with a lot of the views my Democrat friends hold), but I wouldn't characterize any of the ones I know, using those words.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 01, 2021, 11:18:43 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 01, 2021, 11:16:31 AM

Really?  I know a lot of Republicans.  None of them are racists, bigots, or homophobes.

I don't agree with a lot of their views (just as I don't agree with a lot of the views my Democrat friends hold), but I wouldn't characterize any of the ones I know, using those words.

I hope you understand I was responding to a previous post tongue in cheek

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 11:19:29 AM

He was clearly paraphrasing Sam types. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 11:19:38 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 11:06:58 AM

Another guy who would no doubt advocate for thought crimes, arresting people for what they post.

I asked a question because I wanted to know an answer. If you wanna be a jerk because it’s fun, buzz off. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 01, 2021, 11:20:02 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 01, 2021, 11:18:43 AM

I hope you understand I was responding to a previous post tongue in cheek

OK.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 11:23:14 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 11:19:38 AM

I asked a question because I wanted to know an answer. If you wanna be a jerk because it’s fun, buzz off.

Or else what, you'll accuse me of having another child bride?

Stay classy, and always play the victim. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 11:23:41 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 01, 2021, 11:06:20 AM

a partof the answer is more crime in the city hence the need for more gov protection

also more traffic on highways in city which results in the need for more traffic law enforcement

I guess my question is how much of that is just density? Like, is there more or less government per capita?

Rural areas would consume more money for certain services (mail, for example). Not to mention large numbers of small farms rely on government subsidies. I guess I’m not the most convinced.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 11:25:56 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 11:09:07 AM

Where do you do that? It certainly isn't here, where you enthusiastically carry water for Joe Biden of all people.

Well, if any liberals want to arrest people, I may argue with them. But the prevailing view here is yours - when it comes to other people, there is no government action too strong, and when it comes to you, any government action is tyranny. So I argue with that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 11:27:46 AM

Biden crafted most of these laws that keep "people of color" behind bars. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 11:28:29 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 11:23:14 AM

Or else what, you'll accuse me of having another child bride?

Stay classy, and always play the victim.

You just played the victim and chose not to be classy.

I want to keep things civil. After a long back and forth, in which you got pretty uncivil, you informed me I was just that easy to troll. So if you want to be uncivil until someone responds in kind, you effing got it. If it hurts your feelings, well, you build the world around you. I avoided saying something gross for a whole, but you wanted to troll me into it, and eventually you did. Congrats!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 11:30:37 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 01, 2021, 11:16:21 AM

Not all of them,the ones I know/knew were a reflection somewhat of society.Paul Newman portrayed this pretty well in Fort Apache:The Bronx IMO

a reflection of "their" society

I'm just saying, most groups decide what reflection they want to reflect on others

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 11:32:16 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 11:27:46 AM

Biden crafted most of these laws that keep "people of color" behind bars.

Fairly easy to trace a lot of laws from whites being afraid

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 11:32:41 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 11:28:29 AM

You just played the victim and chose not to be classy.

I want to keep things civil. After a long back and forth, in which you got pretty uncivil, you informed me I was just that easy to troll. So if you want to be uncivil until someone responds in kind, you effing got it. If it hurts your feelings, well, you build the world around you. I avoided saying something gross for a whole, but you wanted to troll me into it, and eventually you did. Congrats!

My feelings aren't hurt at all, I am pointing and laughing at your little passive aggressive shtick where you politely dish out scathing condescension, then whine about incivility while accusing others of marrying children. 

You are a joke. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 11:34:45 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 11:32:16 AM

Fairly easy to trace a lot of laws from whites being afraid

You say, as you hide out in the burbs. 

Put your money where your mouth is, and move in closer to where you work. Maybe Cleveland Ave south of the Westerville school district at the very least. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 11:37:58 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 11:32:41 AM

My feelings aren't hurt at all, I am pointing and laughing at your little passive aggressive shtick where you politely dish out scathing condescension, then whine about incivility while accusing others of marrying children.

You are a joke.

He plays the victim and asks others to stay classy. The self proclaimed troll tells others they’re the joke.

Life on the internet I suppose.

(And all this, over something so innocuous)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 11:43:08 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 11:37:58 AM

He plays the victim and asks others to stay classy. The self proclaimed troll tells others they’re the joke.

Life on the internet I suppose.

(And all this, over something so innocuous)

Okay, I thought I'd provide you an opportunity to redeem yourself, but instead you are going the other way and doubling down. 

Duly noted. Go on with your bad self. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 11:45:29 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 11:34:45 AM

You say, as you hide out in the burbs.

Put your money where your mouth is, and move in closer to where you work. Maybe Cleveland Ave south of the Westerville school district at the very least.

No need...I'll follow the brown stain from your pants out West

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 11:47:24 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 11:45:29 AM

No need...I'll follow the brown stain from your pants out West

Yeah, I sure do miss getting mugged and having my car and apartment broken into. 

Great society that you advocate for. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2021, 11:49:13 AM

In other news, well, maybe there isn't any.

Biden's vaccine mandate to be published soon | TheHill (https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/579392-bidens-vaccine-mandate-for-businesses-to-be-published-by-osha-in-the)

I will be interested in what happens on the ground with those smaller companies out there.  And with companies that face losing perhaps ten percent of their work force in critical industries.  And cities etc.

COP26: Joe Biden says 'we're still falling short' on climate change (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/01/cop26-joe-biden-says-were-still-falling-short-on-climate-change.html)

World leaders use a lot of jet fuel to convene and give speeches.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 11:49:32 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 11:47:24 AM

Yeah, I sure do miss getting mugged and having my car and apartment broken into.

Great society that you advocate for.

Works for me. Have to have a little bit of steel to survive the mean streets of Worrhington. It's not for everyone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 11:52:08 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 11:49:32 AM

Works for me. Have to have a little bit of steel to survive the mean streets of Worrhington. It's not for everyone.

Oddly enough the cops didn't hunt down my armed muggers and shoot them for being black. Instead they cracked a couple of jokes and suggested that I moved, while refusing to do a thing about it. The exact moment that I realized that the Left was completely FoS. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 01, 2021, 11:52:22 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 01, 2021, 11:16:31 AM

Really?  I know a lot of Republicans.  None of them are racists, bigots, or homophobes.

I don't agree with a lot of their views (just as I don't agree with a lot of the views my Democrat friends hold), but I wouldn't characterize any of the ones I know, using those words.

You're invited to my Contrarian Crawfish Boil next May.  

Ah hell....you're all invited. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 01, 2021, 11:55:22 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 01, 2021, 11:52:22 AM

You're invited to my Contrarian Crawfish Boil next May. 

Ah hell....you're all invited. 

You had me at "Crawf..."  Count me in!

And I can certainly be one contrarian mofo. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2021, 11:55:57 AM

In political discussion, it is necessary to paint ALL Democrats as soft on crime gay pansy communists, and ALL Republicans as red necks pining for the Confederacy.

It is parallel to how OSU and UM fans depict each other.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2021, 11:56:20 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 01, 2021, 11:55:22 AM

And I can certainly be one contrarian mofo.

No you can't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 01, 2021, 11:57:58 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 01, 2021, 11:56:20 AM

No you can't.

Dagnabbit!  Now you've gone and done it...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 01, 2021, 11:58:13 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 11:32:16 AM

Fairly easy to trace a lot of laws from whites being afraid

this statement is the definition of racism. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 11:59:40 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 11:52:08 AM

Oddly enough the cops didn't hunt down my armed muggers and shoot them for being black. Instead they cracked a couple of jokes and suggested that I moved, while refusing to do a thing about it. The exact moment that I realized that the Left was completely FoS.

Cops are well known leftists

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 11:59:56 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 01, 2021, 11:58:13 AM

this statement is the definition of racism.

Uh, yeah

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 01, 2021, 12:01:21 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 01, 2021, 11:55:57 AM

In political discussion, it is necessary to paint ALL Democrats as soft on crime gay pansy communists, and ALL Republicans as red necks pining for the Confederacy.

Interestingly, both are how I paint Alabama fans. 

And Auburn as a team.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2021, 12:03:02 PM

Our legal code obviously is based on English law in most states.  One would learn such things in law school or just by reading.

And there is influence from the Bible of course or Hammurabi or whatever, an evolution of older criminal codes into ours.  They pretty much all outlaw the strong taking advantage of the poor, theft, violence, murder, pretty much common themes throughout the world on the basics.

One can of course claim it's from white folks as our FFs were white folks, and the state leaders were white folks, but the code would be pretty much the same no matter who wrote it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 12:04:15 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 11:59:40 AM

Cops are well known leftists

They sure won't do squat about black crime unless it is happening right in front of them, while the perp is flipping them off and talking smack about there mother. Even then they'd think twice out of fear of being called racist.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 01, 2021, 12:05:39 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 11:59:56 AM

Uh, yeah

congrats, you're a racist. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 12:13:01 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 01, 2021, 12:05:39 PM

congrats, you're a racist.

Oh I see. Describing racism is the new racism.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 01, 2021, 12:13:17 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 01, 2021, 11:11:18 AM

racists,  bigots, homophobic

I registered years ago in Louisiana as a Republican, and may have registered in Texas as one, I'm not sure, because Texas has open primaries and I'm not sure it matters.  Anyway, your list was eye-opening and I figured I better do some introspection.

Racist--it's true, I do believe the human race is superior to all other mammal races. 

homophobic--yep, I do have an fear of everything being alike.  A lot of pop music now sounds like all the same crap, and all the worship music at my church sounds the same and is intensely dull, but I'd argue that fear is not irrational.

bigot--hmm, not far as I can tell, but like Meatloaf said, two outta three ain't bad. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2021, 12:15:38 PM

I THINK here we don't "register" really, but we might request either a Rep or Dem primary ballot.  This allows crossover voting of course which is a bit strange, but Ohio was the same, I think.  We have an election here tomorrow of some sort, mayor I think, about 50 people running.  Major issue is crime.  They are all going to do something about it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 12:19:55 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 12:04:15 PM

They sure won't do squat about black crime unless it is happening right in front of them, while the perp is flipping them off and talking smack about there mother. Even then they'd think twice out of fear of being called racist.

Back on topic - being the victim of a robbery or most crimes sucks, and a system which doesn't care about it also sucks.If you live in these communities, and you feel cops don't care or are useless, and you can't leave, there aren't that many options available. So increases in violence would seem to be expected.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 12:25:04 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 12:19:55 PM

Back on topic - being the victim of a robbery or most crimes sucks, and a system which doesn't care about it also sucks.If you live in these communities, and you feel cops don't care or are useless, and you can't leave, there aren't that many options available. So increases in violence would seem to be expected.

The best part is getting relentlessly mocked by smarmy White liberal elitists such as yourself who supposedly hate guns, unless the victim of the gun crime is White while the armed criminal isn't. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 01, 2021, 12:25:49 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 12:13:01 PM

Oh I see. Describing racism is the new racism.

How did you describe racism? 

All you did was make sweeping generalizations about an entire race of people based on nothing but your biases, assumptions, and preconceived notions. 

Congrats, you're a racist. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 12:27:42 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 01, 2021, 12:25:49 PM

How did you describe racism?

All you did was make sweeping generalizations about an entire race of people based on nothing but your biases, assumptions, and preconceived notions.

Congrats, you're a racist.

No, I said a lot of laws can be tracked due to whites being afraid. Which is a factual statement, if you look at the history of various laws. If I said blacks generally vote Democratic, that would also be a factual statement. I guess I would be a racist for saying that too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 01, 2021, 12:32:49 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 12:27:42 PM

No, I said a lot of laws can be tracked due to whites being afraid. Which is a factual statement, if you look at the history of various laws. If I said blacks generally vote Democratic, that would also be a factual statement. I guess I would be a racist for saying that too.

Again, how in the world is this a factual statement? Hint: it's not. 

If you said blacks generally vote Democratic- that would be a factual statement because there are actual statistics which show this to be the case.

You are comparing apples to oranges. 

Congrats on being a racist. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 12:36:33 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 01, 2021, 12:32:49 PM

Again, how in the world is this a factual statement? Hint: it's not.

If you said blacks generally vote Democratic- that would be a factual statement because there are actual statistics which show this to be the case.

You are comparing apples to oranges.

Congrats on being a racist.

Lol sure guy, whatever you say

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 12:36:54 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 12:19:55 PM

Back on topic - being the victim of a robbery or most crimes sucks, and a system which doesn't care about it also sucks.If you live in these communities, and you feel cops don't care or are useless, and you can't leave, there aren't that many options available. So increases in violence would seem to be expected.

I'm just curious as to the percentage of folks that "Can't" leave

I understand it takes a little bit of money for transportation to get out.  seems if you really want out, the motivation would be there to beg, borrow, or steak enough cash to escape.

I understand that folks have family and ties there that they might feel that they shouldn't leave, but that's not can't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 01, 2021, 12:38:35 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 12:36:33 PM

Lol sure guy, whatever you say

Typically this is what people say when they've lost an argument. 

Congrats on losing an argument. Oh, and on being a racist.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 12:39:16 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 12:36:54 PM

I'm just curious as to the percentage of folks that "Can't" leave

I understand it takes a little bit of money for transportation to get out.  seems if you really want out, the motivation would be there to beg, borrow, or steak enough cash to escape.

I understand that folks have family and ties there that they might feel that they shouldn't leave, but that's not can't.

Definitely, though this hits a lot of different demographics. A teenager can't exactly just move, almost regardless of class

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 12:40:18 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 01, 2021, 12:38:35 PM

Typically this is what people say when they've lost an argument.

Congrats on losing an argument. Oh, and on being a racist.

What argument? You claimed, dumbly, that I'm a racist. I support the ability for you to make all the dumb statements you want.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 01, 2021, 12:41:31 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 10:29:54 AM

Detroit probably got the idea from Chicago.


(https://i.redd.it/1dgldcjjt2551.jpg)

They are nothing alike. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 12:41:55 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 12:36:54 PM

I'm just curious as to the percentage of folks that "Can't" leave

I understand it takes a little bit of money for transportation to get out.  seems if you really want out, the motivation would be there to beg, borrow, or steak enough cash to escape.

I understand that folks have family and ties there that they might feel that they shouldn't leave, but that's not can't.

It's called having a rent budget around $500 a month. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 12:42:33 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 01, 2021, 12:41:31 PM

They are nothing alike. 

I was alluding to an earlier discussion. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 12:42:51 PM

not a high percentage, but there have obviously been teenagers that have "runaway" from bad situations.

we here about it in college sports all the time, teenagers with a future in sports moving to an aunt or uncle or grandparent or a coach or family friend that they can live with through high school to avoid problems in their neighborhood

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2021, 12:43:24 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 11:34:45 AM

You say, as you hide out in the burbs.

Put your money where your mouth is, and move in closer to where you work. Maybe Cleveland Ave south of the Westerville school district at the very least.

I spent K-3rd grade in that area. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 12:43:57 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 12:41:55 PM

It's called having a rent budget around $500 a month.

plenty of rural places that can be rented for $500/month

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 12:48:24 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 12:43:57 PM

plenty of rural places that can be rented for $500/month

True, but when your job is in a city what are you going to do? 

Can't just quit your job, move to some other place, and live out of your car until you find a new job willing to take a flier on a guy who lives in a car. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 12:52:27 PM

why not?

might work out better than being a victim of crime

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 12:54:41 PM

see, there's can't that actually means that would be too much trouble and effort and the unknown

change is uncomfortable and takes some effort, but if my family was living in some of these  dangerous places, I'd find a way to get out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 12:55:38 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 12:52:27 PM

why not?

might work out better than being a victim of crime

I found my way out of there, it's all good. About 20 years too late, but better late than never. 

Now the biggest baddest criminals that I have to worry about are a bunch of scary Mormon Mennonites, as Bayareabadger can attest. So I am definitely in the right place. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2021, 01:02:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 01, 2021, 11:55:57 AM

In political discussion, it is necessary to paint ALL Democrats as soft on crime gay pansy communists, and ALL Republicans as red necks pining for the Confederacy.

It is parallel to how OSU and UM fans depict each other.

The funniest thing about this is the degree to which it's all Buckeye on Buckeye crime in this thread. Maybe a little BAB, but mostly Buckeyes.

So much anger from a fan base that should be really happy given their football team's wild success over the last 2+ decades...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 01:04:31 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 12:54:41 PM

see, there's can't that actually means that would be too much trouble and effort and the unknown

change is uncomfortable and takes some effort, but if my family was living in some of these  dangerous places, I'd find a way to get out.

The other side of that is that you might not be able to find a job in a rural area, and then you wind up unemployed and homeless for the foreseeable future. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 01:08:13 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2021, 01:02:31 PM

The funniest thing about this is the degree to which it's all Buckeye on Buckeye crime in this thread. Maybe a little BAB, but mostly Buckeyes.

So much anger from a fan base that should be really happy given their football team's wild success over the last 2+ decades...

You think it's bad here, get a load of the off topic forum on a Buckeye board. 

It's like one big giant food fight. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 01:08:43 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 11:43:08 AM

Okay, I thought I'd provide you an opportunity to redeem yourself, but instead you are going the other way and doubling down.

Duly noted. Go on with your bad self.

Redeem? How could I redeem myself in your eyes? Would you like an apology?

(I honestly thought we were done with all that the last time)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2021, 01:10:45 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 12:54:41 PM

see, there's can't that actually means that would be too much trouble and effort and the unknown

change is uncomfortable and takes some effort, but if my family was living in some of these  dangerous places, I'd find a way to get out.

See, that's a bit of bias that's really easy to have and really hard to prove. 

It's amazing the number of people that say they're the type who would do so, yet so few who are in those situations actually do it. 

I'd venture that 90%+ of the people who say they'd do anything to get out of those places wouldn't actually do so, because having been born, raised, etc in those places they wouldn't know any different. So they can't apply the middle- or upper-class filter that we apply from the outside, and then we blame them for not having that middle- or upper-class filter we've got and not getting out. 

These guys know the score:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i-8Poz8VcQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 01:13:47 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 01:08:43 PM

Redeem? How could I redeem myself in your eyes? Would you like an apology?

(I honestly thought we were done with all that the last time)

I don't want a thing, I am glad that I was able to provoke you into showing your true colors. 

You were whining about incivility for like 3/4 of that post, then at the end you accused me of having a child bride, which is about as uncivil as a fella can get on a message board. 

That's your MO though, pretending to be polite while dishing out scathing condescension. I just managed to break through your "civility" facade. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 01:13:53 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 12:43:57 PM

plenty of rural places that can be rented for $500/month

Need a car too. 

Honestly, the best route is government work, AKA the military. Granted, that doesn’t lead to certain kinds of socialization.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 01, 2021, 01:17:05 PM

4 different versions of a "Let's Go Brandon!" song from 4 different rappers are now in the top 10 of iTunes charts. One of them even took the #1 spot from Adele. Another Let's Go Brandon song is at #2. Adele is at #3 now. The top two songs in the US are "F#CK JOE BIDEN" songs. That is insane to me.

YouTube literally deleted the account of one of the rappers for no legitimate reason whatsoever. Google just proving time and time again they need to be stopped.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 01:22:40 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 01:13:47 PM

I don't want a thing, I am glad that I was able to provoke you into showing your true colors.

You were whining about incivility for like 3/4 of that post, then at the end you accused me of having a child bride, which is about as uncivil as a fella can get on a message board.

That's your MO though, pretending to be polite while dishing out scathing condescension. I just managed to break through your "civility" facade.

You’re right. You figured out is you were ugly and gross enough over and over, another person might just snap and say something ugly back. I held off for a while, but you seemed very interested in getting it to that point.

My true colors are that I don’t really want to say something uncivil. But if a person wants to provoke me over and over, I might just be that way. You found me out. I don’t like people being unpleasant over and over.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 01, 2021, 01:26:42 PM

Disgraced pervert, granny killing former NY Gov Andrew Cuomo charged with a sexual misconduct criminal complaint by Albany County Sheriff's Office today. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 01:27:57 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 01:22:40 PM

You’re right. You figured out is you were ugly and gross enough over and over, another person might just snap and say something ugly back. I held off for a while, but you seemed very interested in getting it to that point.

My true colors are that I don’t really want to say something uncivil. But if a person wants to provoke me over and over, I might just be that way. You found me out. I don’t like people being unpleasant over and over.

Only in this case you were "provoked" by the fact that I don't like California, a state which you were neither born in, nor currently reside.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 01:28:19 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2021, 01:02:31 PM

The funniest thing about this is the degree to which it's all Buckeye on Buckeye crime in this thread. Maybe a little BAB, but mostly Buckeyes.

So much anger from a fan base that should be really happy given their football team's wild success over the last 2+ decades...

https://youtu.be/74I7Nl1mKig

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 01:36:00 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 01:27:57 PM

Only in this case you were "provoked" by the fact that I don't like California, a state which you were neither born in, nor currently reside.

… I was born and raised there? And my childhood home is there. And a large network of friends and family live there.

And some light fantasizing about them having their citizenship stripped and being left to cartel violence, whatever, what’s a little sass among friends? But eventually if you hammer it and hammer it, yeah, that’s provoking. And eventually, someone will answer prolonged ugliness with ugliness. And considering we’re talking about states, well, you pick up the theme that’s there.

I’ll put it this way, if my desire for civility was just a facade, I would’ve said that with a lot less trolling required. But I admit, I got trolled, and the desired result was achieved.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 01:40:39 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 01:36:00 PM

… I was born and raised there? And my childhood home is there. And a large network of friends and family live there.

And some light fantasizing about them having their citizenship stripped and being left to cartel violence, whatever, what’s a little sass among friends? But eventually if you hammer it and hammer it, yeah, that’s provoking. And eventually, someone will answer prolonged ugliness with ugliness. And considering we’re talking about states, well, you pick up the theme that’s there.

I’ll put it this way, if my desire for civility was just a facade, I would’ve said that with a lot less trolling required. But I admit, I got trolled, and the desired result was achieved.

Okay, I was born in Virginia Beach, and I've never called someone a pedophile for talking smack about Virginia. I talk smack about it too, it's pathetic that they didn't hold their governor accountable for wearing blackface and klan robes, while they virtue signal about racism out of the other corner of their mouth. 
I was raised in Vermont, another fruit loop state. Spent my teens, twenties and thirties in Ohio, a state I've been railing on for the past several pages. Now I live in Utah, which is easy to make fun of. I also spent a year in Missouri, which is even easier to make fun of. 

I guess that I am just made of sterner stuff than you. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 01:43:37 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2021, 01:10:45 PM

See, that's a bit of bias that's really easy to have and really hard to prove.

It's amazing the number of people that say they're the type who would do so, yet so few who are in those situations actually do it.

oh, I understand I've never walked a mile in their moccasins.  Perhaps I'd never make it out with my family.  I certainly don't want to be put in that position to see what happens.

but, there are plenty of stories about folks that have the will and then find a way to get out and do better for themselves.  Heck, not just ugly inner cities here in the US.

Refugees from war torn countries all over the globe have somehow been pressed to find a way to get out of bad situations.

I just don't buy the excuse, They can't. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 01:45:56 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 01:40:39 PM

 I also spent a year in Missouri, which is even easier to make fun of.

that's for sure, especially for us noble Iowans!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 01, 2021, 01:48:47 PM

Man I don't think I can really find anything about Missouri to make fun of.  It's pretty milquetoast and inoffensive.  I guess that's the worst thing I can say about it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2021, 01:48:52 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 01:43:37 PM

oh, I understand I've never walked a mile in their moccasins.  Perhaps I'd never make it out with my family.  I certainly don't want to be put in that position to see what happens.

but, there are plenty of stories about folks that have the will and then find a way to get out and do better for themselves.  Heck, not just ugly inner cities here in the US.

Refugees from war torn countries all over the globe have somehow been pressed to find a way to get out of bad situations.

I just don't buy the excuse, They can't.

I agree that "they can't" isn't true for nearly any. But I think sometimes we overestimate how hard it is. 

I played golf with a coworker yesterday morning. He escaped war-torn El Salvador in his late teens to come to the US. He settled in South Central LA, with all the things that South Central LA has. I.e. he heard gunfire at night but didn't care, because they were plinking guns, not the 50 cal automatic weapons that the military in El Salvador had. He'd hear the police choppers going over at night but it was nothing compared to the big Sikorsky choppers going over at home.

Inspiring story, to not only escape his country but then to be an immigrant in a place none of us would willingly live in LA, get an education, and end up an engineer working for a large multinational tech company. 

But he's a deep outlier, not the norm. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 01:53:37 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 01, 2021, 01:48:47 PM

Man I don't think I can really find anything about Missouri to make fun of.  It's pretty milquetoast and inoffensive.  I guess that's the worst thing I can say about it?

Probably the least attractive collection of people ever assembled on planet Earth. 

Also a lot of rat tail hair cuts; where having a Mullet just isn't quite redneck enough. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 02:03:51 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 01, 2021, 01:48:47 PM

Man I don't think I can really find anything about Missouri to make fun of.  It's pretty milquetoast and inoffensive.  I guess that's the worst thing I can say about it?

St Louis pizza. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 02:04:20 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 01:40:39 PM

I guess that I am just made of sterner stuff than you.

Must be it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 02:04:36 PM

They are the only Midwestern state with ties to the Confederacy, their two major cities are practically in other states, there are countless things to make fun of Missouri for. The Show Me state? I mean, come on.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 02:04:58 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 02:03:51 PM

St Louis pizza.

Dafuq is that? I'm learning so much about pizza

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 02:07:12 PM

It's just Chicago style thin crust.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 02:15:17 PM

Kansas City BBQ

that's laughable if you're from the south

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2021, 02:16:47 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 02:07:12 PM

It's just Chicago style thin crust.

I do admire your commitment to a bit :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 02:18:19 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2021, 02:16:47 PM

I do admire your commitment to a bit :57:

I mean I did a Google image search, and that's what came up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 02:19:14 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 02:15:17 PM

Kansas City BBQ

that's laughable if you're from the south

I had good KC bbq, but it was at an upscale place. 

The famous gas station stuff was fine. I wasn’t mad I had it, but I wouldn’t talk about it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 02:20:52 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 02:07:12 PM

It's just Chicago style thin crust.

That cheese STL used. Has a flavor that could wake the dead (in the bad way)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 02:22:13 PM

probably on the Kansas side of the river

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 02:19:14 PM

I had good KC bbq, but it was at an upscale place.

The famous gas station stuff was fine. I wasn’t mad I had it, but I wouldn’t talk about it.

probably on the Kansas side of the river

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 01, 2021, 02:28:10 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 02:15:17 PM

Kansas City BBQ

that's laughable if you're from the south

I guess?  I don't take it seriously enough to really make fun of them for it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 02:42:38 PM

There was a funny colloquial expression there that I have never heard a variation of anywhere else. If you had some crappy toy or whatever, then the other kids would say "that's a piece of junk from the Kansas City dump!"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2021, 02:46:38 PM

I've been to every US city of any size but only stayed in the outskirts of KC and don't know it at all.

I skirted Providence also, so maybe I've not been to it really.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 01, 2021, 02:50:46 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 01, 2021, 01:48:47 PM

Man I don't think I can really find anything about Missouri to make fun of.  It's pretty milquetoast and inoffensive.  I guess that's the worst thing I can say about it?

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 02:03:51 PM

St Louis pizza.

Provel cheese.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 03:18:07 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 01, 2021, 02:46:38 PM

I've been to every US city of any size but only stayed in the outskirts of KC and don't know it at all.

I skirted Providence also, so maybe I've not been to it really. 

I always used my vacations as an excuse to get away from cities.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 03:29:45 PM

yup,  wish my brother wasn't in the Dallas/Ft Worth metro.  Austin/Round Rock was bad enough

I do want to take the daughters to San Fran, but only a day or maybe two in the actual city.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 01, 2021, 03:33:38 PM

That's all your spending cash would last prolly

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 03:36:13 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 03:29:45 PM

yup,  wish my brother wasn't in the Dallas/Ft Worth metro.  Austin/Round Rock was bad enough

I do want to take the daughters to San Fran, but only a day or maybe two in the actual city.

North up the coast and down toward Santa Cruz are quite nice. 

The city is an odd beast. Wish I had better pointers, but I tend to experience it walking and shy from tourist spots, though some are quite cool. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 03:38:07 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 01, 2021, 03:33:38 PM

That's all your spending cash would last prolly

that's only one reason

everything is more expensive in Cali

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 03:53:14 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 03:36:13 PM

North up the coast and down toward Santa Cruz are quite nice.

The city is an odd beast. Wish I had better pointers, but I tend to experience it walking and shy from tourist spots, though some are quite cool.

I saved your recommendations regarding the Gilroy Garlic Festival and such.  The Monterey Bay Aquarium (for the girls) and Pebble Beach (for me) are locked in. I have a cousin in Salinas.  Will also visit some wineries north of the city.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 03:54:47 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 03:53:14 PM

I saved your recommendations regarding the Gilroy Garlic Festival and such.  The Monterey Bay Aquarium (for the girls) and Pebble Beach (for me) are locked in. I have a cousin in Salinas.  Will also visit some wineries north of the city.

Ha, that’s a pretty good set. My parents went to the aquarium recently (they are retired and exploring). Said good things. I couldn’t tell you how old I was the last time I went. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2021, 04:04:32 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 03:53:14 PM

I saved your recommendations regarding the Gilroy Garlic Festival and such.  The Monterey Bay Aquarium (for the girls) and Pebble Beach (for me) are locked in. I have a cousin in Salinas.  Will also visit some wineries north of the city.

BTW for wineries I recommend Sonoma over Napa. Napa is ridiculously expensive for tastings these days, and crowded. Sonoma is much more low-key. 

And don't be afraid of hitting up little wineries you've never heard of. All the "big name" ones are tourist traps anyway.

I will say that Beringer is absolutely beautiful, and their cave tour is a lot of fun. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 04:07:18 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 01, 2021, 03:54:47 PM

Ha, that’s a pretty good set. My parents went to the aquarium recently (they are retired and exploring). Said good things. I couldn’t tell you how old I was the last time I went.

I was there around 1990.  I high school friend of mine living in the hills south of Los Gatos spent a long Saturday showing me the area.

Friday evening I met him and his wife in Oakland for a baseball game.  Saturday morning drove down highway 1, meeting a few spots where he went scuba diving with a group.

The aquarium in Monterey, a visit to the Pebble Beach club house(didn't play) wine tasting on the 2nd or 3rd floor on Cannery Row overlooking the bay, then a great seafood dinner before I had to get back to the Tiburon Lodge.  Was a great weekend for a young guy from Iowa

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 04:09:59 PM

I have Sonoma noted from your earlier post

and something about the Dry Creek Valley area for the best Zin in the world.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2021, 04:15:59 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 04:09:59 PM

I have Sonoma noted from your earlier post

and something about the Dry Creek Valley area for the best Zin in the world.

Oh yeah, great stuff.

A couple that we enjoyed were Comstock, Wilson, and Talty. AmaZINg... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 01, 2021, 04:41:28 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 01:28:19 PM

https://youtu.be/74I7Nl1mKig

Classic!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 04:52:12 PM

As your community bank, we want to keep you updated on developments surrounding the recent IRS Bank Reporting Proposal that we alerted you about last week.
With bipartisan opposition growing against the plan — which would require Banks to report information to the IRS on accounts with more than $10,000 — lawmakers appear to have dropped the proposal from Congress's latest spending bill.

The news comes after financial institutions across the country made their customers aware of the plan, which resulted in intense pushback from the public (and customers like you).

While the proposal has been dropped from the House bill, there is still a possibility that it could be added back at a later point in the legislative process.

We will keep you updated on the latest developments on our website page, including links to resources and ways to contact your government representatives.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 04:57:31 PM

What's up with San Diego and mermaids?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 05:04:05 PM

are mermaids a style of food that San Diego takes credit for?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 01, 2021, 05:05:44 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 04:57:31 PM

What's up with San Diego and mermaids?

What's up with Utah and corn liquor

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 05:10:35 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 05:04:05 PM

are mermaids a style of food that San Diego takes credit for?

Absolutely everything there is mermaid themed. Everywhere you look, there's a mermaid staring back at you. 

I finally had to break down and buy one as a souvenir. It was a little tricky flying her home on the plane, but she was a good sport about it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 01, 2021, 05:39:34 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 04:52:12 PM

As your community bank, we want to keep you updated on developments surrounding the recent IRS Bank Reporting Proposal that we alerted you about last week.
With bipartisan opposition growing against the plan — which would require Banks to report information to the IRS on accounts with more than $10,000 — lawmakers appear to have dropped the proposal from Congress's latest spending bill.

The news comes after financial institutions across the country made their customers aware of the plan, which resulted in intense pushback from the public (and customers like you).

While the proposal has been dropped from the House bill, there is still a possibility that it could be added back at a later point in the legislative process.

We will keep you updated on the latest developments on our website page, including links to resources and ways to contact your government representatives.

We bankers are smart…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zgHXHtHSsNo

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2021, 06:26:26 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 04:57:31 PM

What's up with San Diego and mermaids?

I didn't just think it was San Diego... I thought the big thing over the last several years was adult women who want to be mermaids for some reason. "Adult" is clearly a term used loosely--it seems like much of the younger generation don't want to be adults, they want to occasionally experience "adulting" as a verb.  

But it certainly seems that if there was an epicenter of mermaidism, San Diego would be a likely choice. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 06:36:58 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2021, 06:26:26 PM

I didn't just think it was San Diego... I thought the big thing over the last several years was adult women who want to be mermaids for some reason. "Adult" is clearly a term used loosely--it seems like much of the younger generation don't want to be adults, they want to occasionally experience "adulting" as a verb. 

But it certainly seems that if there was an epicenter of mermaidism, San Diego would be a likely choice.

To be clear, it was mermaid themed signs and merchandise. Not actual people dressed up like mermaids. I was joking about buying an actual mermaid.


(https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-36f60/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/3738/5694/LP53595_SD_mermaid_orange__51562.1436320641.jpg?c=2)


(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81K1g9YPYfS._AC_SL1500_.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 06:38:18 PM

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d4/1a/ab/d41aab7eeebba77cd190b9da6bb4bd72.jpg)

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f6/e7/f7/f6e7f7e24ea691a788845914e29d1d14.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 06:41:26 PM

explained simply as giving tourists what they want in exchange for $$$

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2021, 06:58:23 PM

Oh, I'm sure you weren't absconding with a mythical creature on your plane...

I'm just saying... It's apparently a thing: https://www.sdmermaids.com/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 07:08:49 PM

Yeah, in fact there is footage of Fearless doing a mermaid swim. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_i0Vg0LJ9A

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2021, 07:30:04 PM

Got the living room "done"...

Actually need to repaint a large mirror to match everything, which will replace the canvas scenery photos on the wall.

So almost "done"...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 07:45:24 PM

How can a living room be so spotless with a dog in the house? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2021, 07:46:32 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 07:45:24 PM

How can a living room be so spotless with a dog in the house?

I literally vacuumed just before this so that I could take pictures of the old coffee table to sell it, before assembling this one. 

So all the COPIOUS amounts of golden retriever fur had just been removed lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 01, 2021, 08:07:56 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 05:10:35 PM

Absolutely everything there is mermaid themed. Everywhere you look, there's a mermaid staring back at you.

I finally had to break down and buy one as a souvenir. It was a little tricky flying her home on the plane, but she was a good sport about it.

This reminds me of Savannah's riverfront being heavily pirate-themed.  I did not expect that.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 08:13:26 PM

(https://morbotron.com/video/S02E16/fZOADezKv1YyPty-JXWpHpBhH2M=.gif)


(https://i.imgflip.com/2/31hudy.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 09:09:02 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 09:49:15 AM

Well, I grew up in a rural area and there was no shortage of teenagers looking to get in fights and mess around.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/250571265_953140378916767_4388822659561715989_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=fveNcVPRfhQAX-UV-Bv&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=b841906601b0ed07a979bef39a4a4bcc&oe=61A4BF89)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2021, 10:49:48 PM

Kulm style pizza

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/s851x315/249813553_4424238141005310_1281462531678908955_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=kC54R5CUyssAX_idBvK&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=c365dec9eed64fac3d976dd0210abe36&oe=61A498AD)

Kulm, North Dakota

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 01, 2021, 11:43:10 PM

What the hell are you doing in Kulm, North Dakota?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 02, 2021, 06:58:28 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 01, 2021, 08:13:26 PM

(https://morbotron.com/video/S02E16/fZOADezKv1YyPty-JXWpHpBhH2M=.gif)


(https://i.imgflip.com/2/31hudy.jpg)

Very good pull. Bravo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2021, 07:04:39 AM

Is Premium Gas Worth It? We Test High Octane on 4 Popular Vehicles (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a28565486/honda-cr-v-vs-bmw-m5-ford-f-150-dodge-charger/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&fbclid=IwAR0HAPymjbtFmTPfkkgdqLMtYVJhCA-CReCWjNNZQqngQNkTUMoYQQQjVms)

The answer is of course it depends, but use whatever is recommended for your car.  A high performance turbo probably "needs" premium.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 02, 2021, 09:40:55 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 02, 2021, 07:04:39 AM

Is Premium Gas Worth It? We Test High Octane on 4 Popular Vehicles (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a28565486/honda-cr-v-vs-bmw-m5-ford-f-150-dodge-charger/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&fbclid=IwAR0HAPymjbtFmTPfkkgdqLMtYVJhCA-CReCWjNNZQqngQNkTUMoYQQQjVms)

The answer is of course it depends, but use whatever is recommended for your car.  A high performance turbo probably "needs" premium.

I've said this for years. High compression engines require high octane. Low compressions engines don't, nor do they benefit from higher octane than recommended.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 02, 2021, 10:20:34 AM

Ford's recommended fuel for my twin-turbocharged V6 is 87 octane.  They do, however, note that increased performance can be had with higher octane fuel.

There are a lot of guys on the forums that insist towing with higher octane fuel yields more power and better results.  I've never had any problems with towing on regular unleaded, and the cost delta with buying premium fuel at 8-10 mpg towing, would be considerable...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 02, 2021, 10:40:53 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 02, 2021, 10:20:34 AM

Ford's recommended fuel for my twin-turbocharged V6 is 87 octane.  They do, however, note that increased performance can be had with higher octane fuel.

There are a lot of guys on the forums that insist towing with higher octane fuel yields more power and better results.  I've never had any problems with towing on regular unleaded, and the cost delta with buying premium fuel at 8-10 mpg towing, would be considerable...

Yeah, there's a caveat to my statement regarding what octane to use in a car. 

It used to be "as long as it doesn't knock, you don't need more octane". But modern engines can retard ignition timing as a matter of self-preservation if you're using an octane too low, which will end up not providing optimal power. The article CD posted also suggested that turbocharged engines will dial down the boost to avoid knocking. 

I suspect that's what Ford is doing, and the article CD posted supported that as well with significant power differences between octanes and measuring lower boost on lower octane. Ford has ensured that the engine will run safely without knocking on 87, but it does it by not allowing the engine to run at its full potential power. 

That said, I think it's still a bit of an anomaly for most cars. Most cars today have a minimum required octane and see no real benefit by going over the minimum. There will be a small number that benefit from higher octane because they're effectively detuning their engine performance to avoid knocking when lower octane is used. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2021, 11:18:43 AM

High compression is of course relative, most engines today have it relative to 1973.  My old Nova had 8.5:1.  And of course turbos generally operate at lower compression than nonboosted engines if you calculated compression normally.  My GTI is at 9.6:1, but then there is boost.

It is recommended for premium fuel and I usually use it (Costco).  The guy at the dealer said to use it all the time, and I suppose he's right if I want to get all the power out of it.

Most cars of course run fine on regular.  Premium often has lower fuel value anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2021, 12:51:33 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 08:53:35 AM

Uh...aren't violent gangs well armed and looking out for each other? That's pretty much the literal definition of a gang.

They are well-armed, illegally, and they don't know how to shoot. If they did, there would be a lot more dead people.

The rural fork would destroy a gang that showed up. They can shoot fast animals and flying animals.

Gang bangers couldn't hit a barn.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2021, 01:03:41 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 01, 2021, 10:27:15 AM

But if we call in the National Guard to police protests, that isn't tyranny?

Not when cities are burning.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 02, 2021, 01:12:42 PM

(https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2020/08/CNN-Headline-Fiery-2.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 02, 2021, 01:37:22 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2021, 12:51:33 PM

They are well-armed, illegally, and they don't know how to shoot. If they did, there would be a lot more dead people.

The rural fork would destroy a gang that showed up. They can shoot fast animals and flying animals.

Gang bangers couldn't hit a barn.

Gotta train the citizenry there better. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 02, 2021, 01:45:28 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 02, 2021, 01:12:42 PM

(https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2020/08/CNN-Headline-Fiery-2.jpg)

mostly peaceful

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 02, 2021, 01:56:58 PM

I love how that absurd discussion had died off, and then badgerfan comes through like a bull in a China shop, tromping around and leaving nothing but shattered finery in his wake.

Well done, sir. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2021, 01:58:17 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 02, 2021, 01:12:42 PM

(https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2020/08/CNN-Headline-Fiery-2.jpg)

Yes, and as you know, I lived through that for 3 nights.

Then the guard showed up, and poof. Done.

We left as soon as we saw two pickup trucks parked in the marina parking lot, filled with gas cans. Harbor fires are not good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2021, 01:59:52 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 02, 2021, 01:56:58 PM

I love how that absurd discussion had died off, and then badgerfan comes through like a bull in a China shop, tromping around and leaving nothing but shattered finery in his wake.

Well done, sir. :)

The one about pizza? Yeah, no shit.

(been away from my computer - had to catch up)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 02, 2021, 02:06:47 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2021, 01:59:52 PM

The one about pizza? Yeah, no shit.

(been away from my computer - had to catch up)

I rather enjoyed the discussion about pizza.

As you know, I'm a big fan of the Chicago deep dish style.  I also really like Detroit style.

I'm not sure what that weird one was with a bunch of unmelted cheese, but if I ever encountered it, I'd give it a shot.  Ya never know.

Only pizza I've ever had that I just really didn't like, was in France.  It was early on in my first visit to the country, and I went to a pizzeria with some of my local workmates, but made the mistake of not asking them to translate and/or explain the menu, before I ordered.  When it was ready, the pizza was brought out to me, and it had normal looking tomato sauce and cheese, but it also had sausages on it.  But not crumbled sausage and not thin-sliced cross-cut sausage, the way we do pepperoni here in the states.  No, there were just several long, thin, whole sausage links, laid out on top.  I figured-- that's okay, it's not what I expected, but I can work with it.  But then the server cracked a raw egg over the top right in front of me, and walked away.  The locals explained to me that the warm pizza would cook the egg.  But this did not happen.

I tried it, and ate maybe half, because I was pretty hungry.  But suffice to say, I never ordered THAT again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 02, 2021, 02:18:13 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 02, 2021, 02:06:47 PM

I rather enjoyed the discussion about pizza.

As you know, I'm a big fan of the Chicago deep dish style.  I also really like Detroit style.

I'm not sure what that weird one was with a bunch of unmelted cheese, but if I ever encountered it, I'd give it a shot.  Ya never know.

Only pizza I've ever had that I just really didn't like, was in France.  It was early on in my first visit to the country, and I went to a pizzeria with some of my local workmates, but made the mistake of not asking them to translate and/or explain the menu, before I ordered.  When it was ready, the pizza was brought out to me, and it had normal looking tomato sauce and cheese, but it also had sausages on it.  But not crumbled sausage and not thin-sliced cross-cut sausage, the way we do pepperoni here in the states.  No, there were just several long, thin, whole sausage links, laid out on top.  I figured-- that's okay, it's not what I expected, but I can work with it.  But then the server cracked a raw egg over the top right in front of me, and walked away.  The locals explained to me that the warm pizza would cook the egg.  But this did not happen.

I tried it, and ate maybe half, because I was pretty hungry.  But suffice to say, I never ordered THAT again.

I’ve almost never had Detroit style, but a bar near my new place does it, and it might be a favorite.

I grew up with a very avant garde place near my house, which at least gave me a sense of adventure around pizza.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 02, 2021, 02:20:26 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 02, 2021, 01:56:58 PM

I love how that absurd discussion had died off, and then badgerfan comes through like a bull in a China shop, tromping around and leaving nothing but shattered finery in his wake.

Well done, sir. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzw2iBmRsjs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 02, 2021, 02:20:31 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2021, 12:51:33 PM

They are well-armed, illegally, and they don't know how to shoot. If they did, there would be a lot more dead people.

The rural fork would destroy a gang that showed up. They can shoot fast animals and flying animals.

Gang bangers couldn't hit a barn.

I guess I would continue to not dispute that the biggest difference on guns between the various groups is mostly training and funding

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 02, 2021, 02:23:44 PM

Detroit style is maybe my new obsession and it's rapidly growing in popularity here in Austin. Originally there was just one place-- a food truck named Via 313 owned and operated by a couple of Detroit natives--that was doing it.  Then they opened a second trailer, and a brick and mortar, and now there are a couple of competitors doing it as well.  So tasty!


(https://i.imgur.com/qGjPEN3.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 02, 2021, 02:24:52 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 02, 2021, 02:06:47 PM

I rather enjoyed the discussion about pizza.

As you know, I'm a big fan of the Chicago deep dish style.  I also really like Detroit style.

I'm not sure what that weird one was with a bunch of unmelted cheese, but if I ever encountered it, I'd give it a shot.  Ya never know.

Only pizza I've ever had that I just really didn't like, was in France.  It was early on in my first visit to the country, and I went to a pizzeria with some of my local workmates, but made the mistake of not asking them to translate and/or explain the menu, before I ordered.  When it was ready, the pizza was brought out to me, and it had normal looking tomato sauce and cheese, but it also had sausages on it.  But not crumbled sausage and not thin-sliced cross-cut sausage, the way we do pepperoni here in the states.  No, there were just several long, thin, whole sausage links, laid out on top.  I figured-- that's okay, it's not what I expected, but I can work with it.  But then the server cracked a raw egg over the top right in front of me, and walked away.  The locals explained to me that the warm pizza would cook the egg.  But this did not happen.

I tried it, and ate maybe half, because I was pretty hungry.  But suffice to say, I never ordered THAT again.

Yeah, the raw cheese and pepperoni one is supposed to cook on your drive home from the pizza shop as well. 

I never got around to trying it so I cannot vouch. 

Sbarros once put raw pepperoni on a slice of cheese pizza and served it to me. Last time I ever ate there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 02, 2021, 02:26:00 PM

And now-- cue @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) to swoop in and provide wikipedia links to prove that Detroit style pizza was invented in San Diego...


:)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 02, 2021, 02:26:05 PM

people with good jobs have plenty of funding

good criminals have plenty of funding

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 02, 2021, 02:26:32 PM

Lou Malnati's is the best Chicago pizza. The dough is much crunchier than the chunk of white bread you get at Giordano's.

I've made Detroit pizza from scratch before. That dough is really lightweight, very airy. I think the key to that is to use warm, almost hot water, to get the yeast going at the start. Also, it needs to be left in the oven a little longer in order for the cheese in the center to just about brown over. That picture you're showing got brought out just a little bit too soon.

It's really good stuff. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 02, 2021, 02:26:48 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 02, 2021, 02:23:44 PM

Detroit style is maybe my new obsession and it's rapidly growing in popularity here in Austin. Originally there was just one place-- a food truck named Via 313 owned and operated by a couple of Detroit natives--that was doing it.  Then they opened a second trailer, and a brick and mortar, and now there are a couple of competitors doing it as well.  So tasty!


[img width=500 height=332.995]https://i.imgur.com/qGjPEN3.jpg[/img]

Looks like someone put sauce on top of a Jets pizza. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 02, 2021, 02:28:38 PM

need one of those fancy pizza ovens at around 1000 degrees to be cooking raw eggs and melting cheese after it's removed from the oven

why not simply leave it in the oven while cooking eggs and melting cheese

no need to take chances

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 02, 2021, 02:28:51 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 02, 2021, 02:20:26 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzw2iBmRsjs

That's awesome, I never saw that one!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2021, 02:30:29 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 02, 2021, 02:26:00 PM

And now-- cue @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) to swoop in and provide wikipedia links to prove that Detroit style pizza was invented in San Diego...


:)

Never had Detroit, but looks more like a Sicilian to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 02, 2021, 02:31:52 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 02, 2021, 02:28:38 PM

need one of those fancy pizza ovens at around 1000 degrees to be cooking raw eggs and melting cheese after it's removed from the oven

why not simply leave it in the oven while cooking eggs and melting cheese

no need to take chances

I could dig a fried egg on top of a pizza.  Fried egg on top of enchiladas is a classic combination, and a pizza is just sort of an Italian enchilada.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 02, 2021, 02:33:00 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2021, 02:30:29 PM

Never had Detroit, but looks more like a Sicilian to me.

That's because Sicilian pizza was also invented in San Diego.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 02, 2021, 02:34:47 PM

fried eggs are kinda like fried bacon

they're good on almost anything

burgers, hotdogs, tacos, calzones, chicken sammiches, pulled pork

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 02, 2021, 02:36:40 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 02, 2021, 02:34:47 PM

fried eggs are kinda like fried bacon

they're good on almost anything

burgers, hotdogs, tacos, calzones, chicken sammiches, pulled pork

They've got you on the payroll, huh?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 02, 2021, 02:39:36 PM

The egg lobby is strong and far-reaching.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 02, 2021, 02:43:38 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 02, 2021, 02:26:00 PM

And now-- cue @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) to swoop in and provide wikipedia links to prove that Detroit style pizza was invented in San Diego...


:)

I don't know nothin bout birthin no babies Detroit-style pizza. 

I've been told that the "Motor City Pizza" sold frozen at Costco is actually quite good.

And that was from a guy who spent a lot of his life living in San Diego, so he's an expert. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 02, 2021, 02:43:51 PM

(https://prd-wret.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/assets/palladium/production/s3fs-public/styles/full_width/public/Animals_SignsStructuresEtc_AnimalProducts_00022.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 02, 2021, 02:45:17 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on November 02, 2021, 02:26:32 PM

Lou Malnati's is the best Chicago pizza. The dough is much crunchier than the chunk of white bread you get at Giordano's.

I've made Detroit pizza from scratch before. That dough is really lightweight, very airy. I think the key to that is to use warm, almost hot water, to get the yeast going at the start. Also, it needs to be left in the oven a little longer in order for the cheese in the center to just about brown over. That picture you're showing got brought out just a little bit too soon.

It's really good stuff.

Agree with Malnati's.

I think Pizzeria Uno/Due [the ones downtown, not the chain] used to be the best, but they've REALLY fallen off over the years. 

Malnati's is the best at being what Uno used to be, and they're remarkably consistent across all their locations. 

Gino's East is legit, but I still think Malnati's is better. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 02, 2021, 02:45:31 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2021, 02:30:29 PM

Never had Detroit, but looks more like a Sicilian to me.

Detroit is Sicilian pizza but baked in a converted auto parts bin.

If your travels ever take you to Rhode Island, make sure to visit Cantanzaro's Pizzeria in Cranston, RI. Absolutely fantastic pizza. 

http://www.catanzarospizzeriacranston.com/?fbclid=IwAR1eQigtpGUvEBElbRFvYtkCTpmFtZZJ0cSYaxKWy78F8W6JZ9bOlGb8M-8

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 02, 2021, 02:46:23 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 02, 2021, 02:34:47 PM

fried eggs are kinda like fried bacon

they're good on almost anything

burgers, hotdogs, tacos, calzones, chicken sammiches, pulled pork

Ever had one on a Runza?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 02, 2021, 02:47:25 PM

Youngstown had some pretty mean pizza. 

Straight from the Mafia. 


(https://wheretogowednesdays.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/061.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 02, 2021, 02:48:24 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 02, 2021, 02:43:38 PM

I don't know nothin bout birthin no babies Detroit-style pizza.

I've been told that the "Motor City Pizza" sold frozen at Costco is actually quite good.

And that was from a guy who spent a lot of his life living in San Diego, so he's an expert.

It's ok for frozen pizza. A little bready. I like their little individual kirkland ones better.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 02, 2021, 02:53:58 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 02, 2021, 02:48:24 PM

It's ok for frozen pizza. A little bready. I like their little individual kirkland ones better.

The Kirkland pepperoni pizza (not individual, sold as a 4-pack) is really quite good for frozen pizza. The equivalent cheese pizza from Kirkland isn't; their crust is different and not very good. 

We also buy the cauliflower crust veggie pizza there. Not bad for cauliflower crust. 

Those are always good for nights when we don't want to cook and just need to eat something. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 02, 2021, 03:04:13 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 02, 2021, 02:33:00 PM

That's because Sicilian pizza was also invented in San Diego.

By a mermaid?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 02, 2021, 03:15:12 PM

(https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.551064924.1596/fposter,small,wall_texture,product,750x1000.u4.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 02, 2021, 03:20:39 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 02, 2021, 02:46:23 PM

Ever had one on a Runza?

no, but GREAT idea!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 02, 2021, 03:21:28 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 02, 2021, 02:47:25 PM

Youngstown had some pretty mean pizza.

Straight from the Mafia.

Pelini and Stoops families grew up on them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 02, 2021, 05:55:07 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 02, 2021, 02:47:25 PM

Youngstown had some pretty mean pizza.

Straight from the Mafia.


(https://wheretogowednesdays.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/061.jpg)

Akron has a place that still haunts my dreams.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on November 02, 2021, 06:41:51 PM

If you can't even count on the ghost of JFK Jr to resurrect himself at the site of his father's murder to reinstate a former president, what are we even doing in America anymore?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dallasnews.com/news/2021/11/02/qanon-supporters-gather-in-downtown-dallas-expecting-jfk-jr-to-reappear/%3foutputType=amp

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 02, 2021, 06:48:32 PM

Quote from: ELA on November 02, 2021, 06:41:51 PM

If you can't even count on the ghost of JFK Jr to resurrect himself at the site of his father's murder to reinstate a former president, what are we even doing in America anymore?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dallasnews.com/news/2021/11/02/qanon-supporters-gather-in-downtown-dallas-expecting-jfk-jr-to-reappear/%3foutputType=amp

I see the nutjob central on Twitter, and then I see this, and realize Twitter is mostly sane, relatively

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 02, 2021, 07:15:18 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 02, 2021, 03:20:39 PM

no, but GREAT idea!

I'm full of them.....it....whatever

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 02, 2021, 07:54:00 PM

the eating sammiches over the sink wasn't new, ya know?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on November 02, 2021, 07:55:23 PM

https://twitter.com/classywarfare/status/1455318543810039808?t=IbW0nV2kxjXuJthEH29EQQ&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 02, 2021, 10:49:00 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 02, 2021, 07:54:00 PM

the eating sammiches over the sink wasn't new, ya know?

We invented that in Chicago. Helps remain clean with Italian beef sandwiches.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 02, 2021, 10:51:46 PM

as did eating Mermaids in San Diego

;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 02, 2021, 11:21:21 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 02, 2021, 10:51:46 PM

as did eating Mermaids in San Diego

;)

(https://c.tenor.com/_JSvjtKrDWIAAAAM/beavis-and-butt-head-coach-buzzcut.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 03, 2021, 12:02:28 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 02, 2021, 10:51:46 PM

as did eating Mermaids in San Diego

;)

A bit of a fishy aroma, if you ask me...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 03, 2021, 01:21:34 AM

(https://c.tenor.com/3cJx6w9wQ9gAAAAM/beavis-and-butthead-laughing.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 03, 2021, 07:04:26 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 02, 2021, 05:55:07 PM

Akron has a place that still haunts my dreams.

That Bad,or you lie in bed dreaming about it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 03, 2021, 07:05:14 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 03, 2021, 12:02:28 AM

A bit of a fishy aroma, if you ask me...

Git in the corner!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2021, 12:57:08 PM

I was happy the Braves won their division and figured that was that, they had the fewest wins of any playoff team, and some key injuries.  But they got hot in early August and somehow prevailed.  Some probably don't think they should even have been in the playoffs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 03, 2021, 01:26:26 PM

I have a lot of friends that were pulling for the Astros.  They seemed disappointed today.  I don't really follow MLB so it doesn't matter to me.

The past couple of years we've set up our Halloween candy distribution in the driveway, so people aren't tempted to walk through the yard, where I have a lot of decorations with guy wires, electrical cords, and whatnot, that are completely invisible in the dark.

So this year, since the Dallas Cowboys were playing a Sunday Night Football game during peak trick or treating hours, I set up a TV in my driveway, so I could watch the game at the same time. Quite a few dads (and even a couple of moms)  stopped by to catch some of the game, and I had a cooler full of beer for any adults that wanted to partake. 

But there was this one guy who asked me if I could change the TV to the world series game.  I just looked at him, shook my head, and told him to get the hell off my lawn. 

No beer for you!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2021, 01:33:16 PM

I still enjoy baseball, it had fallen away when the Braves got bad, which is normal I suppose.  Going back to fantasy camp brought a lot back.  You can't have fantasy camp for football or basketball, really only baseball can do it.  We have a great group of guys.  This city had only one pro championship ever aside from soccer, 1995.  This makes two.  Folks are pretty excited about it, many anyway.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 03, 2021, 01:53:26 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 03, 2021, 07:04:26 AM

That Bad,or you lie in bed dreaming about it?

The latter

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2021, 02:07:54 PM

Not drinking alcohol significantly increases the risk of developing multiple sclerosis (MS), especially if a person is also a current or former smoker, according to a new study.

These findings add to the knowledge, discovered in multiple previous studies, that alcohol decreases the activity of the immune system. According to the researchers, this may account for the known connection between alcohol consumption and reduced MS risk — given that MS is characterized by an over-active immune system.

While these new data “are relevant for clinical practice and give no support for advising healthy individuals with MS heredity, or individuals with MS, to completely refrain from alcohol,” they also don’t support increasing alcohol consumption, the researchers said.

“Consumption of alcohol has detrimental effects on other disease conditions, and better understanding of the mechanisms behind our findings may help to define ways to achieve protection against MS by other means than alcohol consumption,” they wrote.


https://multiplesclerosisnewstoday.com/news-posts/2021/11/02/never-drinking-alcohol-tied-significantly-higher-ms-risk/ (https://multiplesclerosisnewstoday.com/news-posts/2021/11/02/never-drinking-alcohol-tied-significantly-higher-ms-risk/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2021, 06:51:57 PM

The Wild Experimental Engine That Uses Gas and Diesel (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a19909520/gas-diesel-engine-reactivity-controlled-compression-ignition/?src=socialflowFBRAT&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0tNhUzxsARIGT9MrFPbZb0s1K_xQ4onbSgXKu7BBCvSDgcYUxGNm-rq58)

It's a concept developed by the University of Wisconsin-Madison that in lab testing has achieved 60 percent thermal efficiency. That means this engine is converting 60 percent of its fuel used into power rather than waste energy—a much higher number than any automotive engine in production today. For context, Toyota has a new 2.0-liter four-cylinder (https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a19592640/toyotas-new-engine-is-hyper-efficient-thanks-to-simple-tuning-tricks/) that achieves a remarkable 40 percent thermal efficiency, while Mercedes-AMG's F1 power unit (https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a12443313/mercedes-amgs-f1-engine-is-amazingly-efficient/) achieves 50 percent.

An RCCI uses two fuel injectors per cylinder to mix a low-reactivity fuel, like gas, with a high-reactivity fuel, like diesel. Theoretically you could mix any low- and high-reactivity fuels for RCCI to occur, but gas and diesel is perhaps the most interesting combination.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 03, 2021, 07:32:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2021, 06:51:57 PM

The Wild Experimental Engine That Uses Gas and Diesel (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a19909520/gas-diesel-engine-reactivity-controlled-compression-ignition/?src=socialflowFBRAT&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0tNhUzxsARIGT9MrFPbZb0s1K_xQ4onbSgXKu7BBCvSDgcYUxGNm-rq58)

 Theoretically you could mix any low- and high-reactivity fuels for RCCI to occur, but gas and diesel is perhaps the most interesting  nearly obsolete combination.

Yeah, they're polishing the brass on the Titanic, no?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2021, 10:12:47 PM

I think folks continue to explore ways of keeping IC engines extant and less polluting, which strikes me as worthy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 03, 2021, 10:14:33 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 03, 2021, 02:07:54 PM

Not drinking alcohol significantly increases the risk of developing multiple sclerosis (MS), especially if a person is also a current or former smoker, according to a new study.

These findings add to the knowledge, discovered in multiple previous studies, that alcohol decreases the activity of the immune system. According to the researchers, this may account for the known connection between alcohol consumption and reduced MS risk — given that MS is characterized by an over-active immune system.

While these new data “are relevant for clinical practice and give no support for advising healthy individuals with MS heredity, or individuals with MS, to completely refrain from alcohol,” they also don’t support increasing alcohol consumption, the researchers said.

“Consumption of alcohol has detrimental effects on other disease conditions, and better understanding of the mechanisms behind our findings may help to define ways to achieve protection against MS by other means than alcohol consumption,” they wrote.


https://multiplesclerosisnewstoday.com/news-posts/2021/11/02/never-drinking-alcohol-tied-significantly-higher-ms-risk/ (https://multiplesclerosisnewstoday.com/news-posts/2021/11/02/never-drinking-alcohol-tied-significantly-higher-ms-risk/)

There are more old drunks than there are old doctors, so I guess we better have another round...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 04, 2021, 09:48:39 AM

Vaccine mandate for businesses published, setting Jan. 4 deadline | TheHill (https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/579986-biden-administration-published-vaccine-mandate-for-businesses-argues)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 04, 2021, 10:35:39 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 04, 2021, 09:48:39 AM

Vaccine mandate for businesses published, setting Jan. 4 deadline | TheHill (https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/579986-biden-administration-published-vaccine-mandate-for-businesses-argues)

just another law which the people didnt vote on and dont support

it will be tested in court Im sure

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 04, 2021, 10:43:08 AM

an official noted is not technically a vaccine mandate, as businesses can also choose to make regular testing and mask-wearing an option.

The mandate, which applies to businesses with at least 100 employees and is expected to cover 84 million people, was developed by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA).


Senior administration officials said OSHA’s emergency temporary standard (ETS) to enact the mandate is “well within OSHA’s authority under the law and consistent with OSHA's requirements to protect workers from health and safety hazards, including infectious diseases.”


_________________________________________________ ___________

why 100 employees?  why not 50 or 500 or 1000?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 04, 2021, 11:03:26 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on November 03, 2021, 10:14:33 PM

There are more old drunks than there are old doctors, so I guess we better have another round...

Classic Willie


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFaPw_uVUHA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 04, 2021, 08:38:17 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 04, 2021, 10:43:08 AM

_________________________________________________ ___________

why 100 employees?  why not 50 or 500 or 1000?

Because anyone with 100+ employees makes too much money to bitch and moan....no matter how entitled their wealth makes them feel.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 04, 2021, 08:48:29 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 04, 2021, 10:43:08 AM

an official noted is not technically a vaccine mandate, as businesses can also choose to make regular testing and mask-wearing an option.

The mandate, which applies to businesses with at least 100 employees and is expected to cover 84 million people, was developed by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA).


Senior administration officials said OSHA’s emergency temporary standard (ETS) to enact the mandate is “well within OSHA’s authority under the law and consistent with OSHA's requirements to protect workers from health and safety hazards, including infectious diseases.”


_________________________________________________ ___________

why 100 employees?  why not 50 or 500 or 1000?

again this will be going to court

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 04, 2021, 09:18:19 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 03, 2021, 01:26:26 PM

But there was this one guy who asked me if I could change the TV to the world series game.  I just looked at him, shook my head, and told him to get the hell off my lawn. 

No beer for you!

From the guy who authored the Beer Thread,I've had you confused with a compassionate,caring type.The corporate's have gotten to you - go have a Lonestar perhaps you'll shake it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 04, 2021, 10:18:52 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 03, 2021, 07:05:14 AM

Git in the corner!!!

They call that spot the corner these days?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 04, 2021, 10:20:08 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 04, 2021, 08:38:17 PM

Because anyone with 100+ employees makes too much money to bitch and moan....no matter how entitled their wealth makes them feel.

and I suppose guys with only 80 employees are good guys, just getting by?
probably need a tax break?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 04, 2021, 11:17:01 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/253659472_4592404790796894_8579714218129357215_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=1vsvcTH7LfIAX9YyjkW&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=cd04c2fb987a76860c43c1953b659999&oe=61AAF80F)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 05, 2021, 01:45:11 AM

no way Bama wins by 31

Id be surprised if aggie beats Auburn

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 05, 2021, 07:18:40 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 05, 2021, 01:45:11 AM

no way Bama wins by 31

Id be surprised if aggie beats Auburn

If A&M doesn’t win out and ends up 9-3 with a win against Bama, that would be a very interesting spot

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 05, 2021, 07:57:16 AM

Various government rules apply to companies with X employees, the X varies all over the map.  I think there is an intent not to bother start ups and mom and pops.

And of course there likely are many more companies with < 90 employees than there are over 100.

I don't see how OSHA can possibly "police" this, or even check on it, without someone dropping a dime.

A lot of 200 employee companies will send an HR person around to ask status and check boxes and done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 05, 2021, 08:31:51 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 05, 2021, 07:18:40 AM

If A&M doesn’t win out and ends up 9-3 with a win against Bama, that would be a very interesting spot

Ags caught Alabama sleeping.  They could certainly lose any 1 of Auburn, LSU, and Ole Miss. Before the season I predicted that the parity in the SEC West would end up with each of those teams trading 2-3 losses amongst them.  At the time I thought Alabama was above the fray, but apparently not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 05, 2021, 08:35:14 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 05, 2021, 07:18:40 AM

If A&M doesn’t win out and ends up 9-3 with a win against Bama, that would be a very interesting spot

what spot are to referring to?
A&M's 3 loss spot?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 05, 2021, 08:38:06 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 05, 2021, 07:57:16 AM

Various government rules apply to companies with X employees, the X varies all over the map.  I think there is an intent not to bother start ups and mom and pops.

And of course there likely are many more companies with < 90 employees than there are over 100.

I don't see how OSHA can possibly "police" this, or even check on it, without someone dropping a dime.

A lot of 200 employee companies will send an HR person around to ask status and check boxes and done.

I'm not sure OSHA can check on all the "reports" that come in regarding mandate stuff

with 100 employees, gotta be a disgruntled couple three that want to cause trouble for "the man" or just a anti-vax co-worker that isn't well liked.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 05, 2021, 01:32:46 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/252966970_4595582120479161_4713863286523593848_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=tBNnyZqG7MoAX8rzVAu&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=4e261614d79b9ff328449cccd4cda46f&oe=61AC6D83)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 05, 2021, 01:50:42 PM

We had a temp worker call OSHA on us, he was completely wrong about his complaint, but OSHA cited us anyway for other stuff.  I was the point person on the audit.  They mostly look for paperwork.  They have no way to assess whether the paperwork was done properly, just that it exists.  We were missing some required paperwork.

So, I think if some company has a record that everyone was vaxxed they are good to go.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 05, 2021, 01:53:49 PM

I guess Desmond is drinking the same stuff Franklin was a few weeks ago

https://twitter.com/TheRealSharty/status/1456630068772548611?s=20 (https://twitter.com/TheRealSharty/status/1456630068772548611?s=20)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 05, 2021, 02:10:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 05, 2021, 01:50:42 PM

We had a temp worker call OSHA on us, he was completely wrong about his complaint, but OSHA cited us anyway for other stuff.  I was the point person on the audit.  They mostly look for paperwork.  They have no way to assess whether the paperwork was done properly, just that it exists.  We were missing some required paperwork.

So, I think if some company has a record that everyone was vaxxed they are good to go.

good to go on the vax issue, but as you say, if OSHA makes the effort to show up, they will find something

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 05, 2021, 02:53:58 PM

Eleven walk-ons from the B1G have been nominated for the prestigious 2021 Burlsworth Trophy. The award is given annually to “College football’s most outstanding player who began his career as a walk-on.”

Here are the candidates from the B1G for this season’s award:

WR Donny Navarro III, Illinois
RB Davion Ervin-Poindexter, Indiana
S Jack Koerner, Iowa
DL Greg Rose, Maryland
C Andrew Vastardis, Michigan
LB Luke Reimer, Nebraska
LB Chris Bergin, Northwestern
TE Mitch Rossi, Ohio State
LS Chris Stoll, Penn State
LS Billy Taylor, Rutgers
DE Matt Henningsen, Wisconsin

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 05, 2021, 04:24:09 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 05, 2021, 02:53:58 PM

Eleven walk-ons from the B1G have been nominated for the prestigious 2021 Burlsworth Trophy. The award is given annually to “College football’s most outstanding player who began his career as a walk-on.”

Here are the candidates from the B1G for this season’s award:

WR Donny Navarro III, Illinois
RB Davion Ervin-Poindexter, Indiana
S Jack Koerner, Iowa
DL Greg Rose, Maryland
C Andrew Vastardis, Michigan
LB Luke Reimer, Nebraska
LB Chris Bergin, Northwestern
TE Mitch Rossi, Ohio State
LS Chris Stoll, Penn State
LS Billy Taylor, Rutgers
DE Matt Henningsen, Wisconsin

I find it odd that Aidan O'Connell isn't on the list. He's the starting QB for Purdue, and because he legitimately won the job, not because he was thrust into it due to injury and nobody on scholarship is healthy enough to play... Not bad for a walk-on. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on November 05, 2021, 04:30:59 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 05, 2021, 01:45:11 AM

no way Bama wins by 31

Id be surprised if aggie beats Auburn

Auburn is definitely a tough opponent. I’m hoping our running game will carry the day and maybe keep Bo Nix in the pocket. I think this game really comes down to how well Nix plays. We’re going to have between 150-220 yards rushing and 120-180 passing yards, and score 28-34 points. Question is will we hold Auburn under 30 points?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on November 05, 2021, 04:39:49 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 05, 2021, 08:31:51 AM

Ags caught Alabama sleeping.  They could certainly lose any 1 of Auburn, LSU, and Ole Miss. Before the season I predicted that the parity in the SEC West would end up with each of those teams trading 2-3 losses amongst them.  At the time I thought Alabama was above the fray, but apparently not.

Bullshit. Florida came pretty close to beating them a week or two before, and Florida ain’t that good this year. We disrupted Bryce Young enough, sacked him etc just enough to allow our offense the chance to score and they did. But it wasn’t nothing Florida didn’t do to em. We did get lucky with the KOR and I doubt we would have beat them on the road. Got to Give Bama credit they hung in there and fought their way back into the game. We still had to have a game winning drive a fg attempt. 

As much as we’d like to make them out to be God they do lose a game once in awhile. And this A&M team isn’t bad, despite the puzzling losses to Ark and MSU. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on November 05, 2021, 04:43:31 PM

I could hit my season win total on Auburn this weekend.

Please do not ask about my MSU under and Northwestern over

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 05, 2021, 04:46:32 PM

Quote from: Gigem on November 05, 2021, 04:39:49 PM

Bullshit. Florida came pretty close to beating them a week or two before, and Florida ain’t that good this year. We disrupted Bryce Young enough, sacked him etc just enough to allow our offense the chance to score and they did. But it wasn’t nothing Florida didn’t do to em. We did get lucky with the KOR and I doubt we would have beat them on the road. Got to Give Bama credit they hung in there and fought their way back into the game. We still had to have a game winning drive a fg attempt.

As much as we’d like to make them out to be God they do lose a game once in awhile. And this A&M team isn’t bad, despite the puzzling losses to Ark and MSU.

I don't consider those losses to be puzzling at all.  In my opinion, they're completely expected, given the parity in the division and the relative quality of all of the teams being discussed.  The ags also struggled with a terrible Colorado team, and the starting QB threw 3 picks against Kent State.

The Alabama win is the aberration here. And I agree, this year's Alabama team isn't the world-beater that the other recent ones have been.  But they're still the king until they're not.

I completely expect at least one more loss from A&M against LSU, Ole Miss, or Auburn.  And it could be two.  Not knocking the ags at all, that's just the state of parity in the SEC West right now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on November 05, 2021, 05:11:30 PM

I know he was mayor of Cincinnati, but having Jerry Springer on Gameday this week, after one of his former "dancers" showed up in the news this week, feels like not a coincidence.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on November 05, 2021, 09:46:45 PM

That moment when Pat McAfee realized he had the burden of being the smartest person in the room for the first time ever

https://twitter.com/BaileyCarlin/status/1456675839756623876?t=az1_kXIV_6JRxKRxyiolkA&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on November 05, 2021, 10:01:38 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 05, 2021, 01:53:49 PM

I guess Desmond is drinking the same stuff Franklin was a few weeks ago

https://twitter.com/TheRealSharty/status/1456630068772548611?s=20 (https://twitter.com/TheRealSharty/status/1456630068772548611?s=20)

https://youtu.be/NMXRxNbPvGI

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 05, 2021, 10:11:42 PM

Quote from: ELA on November 05, 2021, 05:11:30 PM

I know he was mayor of Cincinnati, but having Jerry Springer on Gameday this week, after one of his former "dancers" showed up in the news this week, feels like not a coincidence.

Leverage the buzz

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 05, 2021, 10:29:46 PM

Quote from: ELA on November 05, 2021, 10:01:38 PM

https://youtu.be/NMXRxNbPvGI

😂😂😂😂. Never gets old. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 06, 2021, 10:42:46 AM

We were supposed to fly to Munich tomorrow. That's not happening. Munich is on lockdown. So now we will fly directly to Lisbon from ORD, on Wednesday. 

Thank goodness for everything being refunded.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 06, 2021, 10:45:13 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 06, 2021, 10:42:46 AM

We were supposed to fly to Munich tomorrow. That's not happening. Munich is on lockdown. So now we will fly directly to Lisbon from ORD, on Wednesday.

Thank goodness for everything being refunded.

Well, you'd have been a month too late for Munich anyway. ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 06, 2021, 10:52:25 AM

They didn't do Oktoberfest this year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 06, 2021, 10:56:26 AM

Yeah I know.  Two years in a row they haven't done it.  Hopefully they'll get it all sorted by 2022.  At this point, going on full lockdown and canceling events, for a virus that is becoming endemic, seems a bit silly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 06, 2021, 11:06:23 AM

Yep. Our friends there are pissed. They are going to their place in Italy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 06, 2021, 11:25:05 AM

Horrible situation at Astroworld.    

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 06, 2021, 11:28:10 AM

I just read about that, truly awful.  I'd never even heard of the dude, but apparently this is not the first time there's been panic and injury at one of his shows.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 06, 2021, 02:39:59 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 05, 2021, 10:29:46 PM

😂😂😂😂. Never gets old.

Easily one of the greatest movies ever.

Will Ferrell has been in a lot of bad movies lately, but man if Anchorman and Step Brothers aren't two of the all-time greatest comedies ever, I don't know what is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 06, 2021, 02:49:09 PM

Quote from: ELA on November 05, 2021, 09:46:45 PM

That moment when Pat McAfee realized he had the burden of being the smartest person in the room for the first time ever

https://twitter.com/BaileyCarlin/status/1456675839756623876?t=az1_kXIV_6JRxKRxyiolkA&s=19

If anyone watches McAfee's show regularly they'd know how much McAfee worships Joe Rogan. He mentions it frequently. My guess is he was smiling because he thought it was pretty awesome that his good buddy A-Rod has become friends with a guy that McAfee all but worships in Joe Rogan.

Joe Rogan got COVID and cleared it in like 3 days. The guy is 55 years old by the way. Whatever he did- obviously worked. Most guys his age get f**cked up by the covids.

My guess is the monoclonal antibodies, IV drips, and steroids are what probably did the job. The ivermectin may have helped- but the studies on it are pretty much inconclusive. Not enough data there and in all the ivermectin studies it has been given with other drugs- and those drugs are what may have been the cause for improvement in patients health.

By the way- this entire BS narrative in the mainstream media about ivermectin being a horse dewormer literally blows my mind. Ivermectin is on the WHO's list of essential medicines, it's been dosed to literally billions of humans for like 4 decades, and the discoverer of the compound won the Nobel prize. It's a HUMAN MEDICINE that was invented FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION in which a version of it was repurposed for use in animals. Is water an animal liquid? Is penicillin an animal drug? Like where the hell is this bullshit even coming from? Pretty obvious what's going on here....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on November 06, 2021, 03:11:07 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 05, 2021, 04:46:32 PM

I don't consider those losses to be puzzling at all.  In my opinion, they're completely expected, given the parity in the division and the relative quality of all of the teams being discussed.  The ags also struggled with a terrible Colorado team, and the starting QB threw 3 picks against Kent State.

The Alabama win is the aberration here. And I agree, this year's Alabama team isn't the world-beater that the other recent ones have been.  But they're still the king until they're not.

I completely expect at least one more loss from A&M against LSU, Ole Miss, or Auburn.  And it could be two.  Not knocking the ags at all, that's just the state of parity in the SEC West right now.

I get what you’re saying but there isn’t that much parity here. We were a young team, we lost our starting QB who had been running with the ones since before the 2020 season. Our offensive line has the talent but they were not playing well as a unit. Miss state scored 24 on offense, ours didn’t do anything.  Ark was almost the same story. 

I won’t be surprised if we drop one more either. Auburn will tell me a lot more than Mizzou or the others. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 06, 2021, 03:43:29 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 06, 2021, 02:49:09 PM

If anyone watches McAfee's show regularly they'd know how much McAfee worships Joe Rogan. He mentions it frequently. My guess is he was smiling because he thought it was pretty awesome that his good buddy A-Rod has become friends with a guy that McAfee all but worships in Joe Rogan.

Joe Rogan got COVID and cleared it in like 3 days. The guy is 55 years old by the way. Whatever he did- obviously worked. Most guys his age get f**cked up by the covids.

Most 55 year olds don't/cant go for 5 mile-runs and have abs. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 06, 2021, 03:53:26 PM

The obsession with worm medicine being a good substitute for a vaccine against viruses is one of those signs our education system is poor.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 06, 2021, 04:03:32 PM

The bigger question: why is anyone taking medical advice from Joe Rogan?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 06, 2021, 04:47:17 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 06, 2021, 03:53:26 PM

The obsession with worm medicine being a good substitute for a vaccine against viruses is one of those signs our education system is poor.

A) Ivermectin isn't "worm medicine"- and it has shown in vitro to inhibit the replication of the SARS-CoV-2 virus. Ivermectin has been used for decades and has been proven in clinical trial after clinical trial to be effective at fighting Dengue Virus. In terms of proving its effectiveness against the SARs-CoV-2 virus, well a lot more study needs to be done on the drug/virus. And I'd say your post above is a sign that our education system is poor and that our mainstream media is pretty much useless and it tricks idiots into believing anything they regurgitate. But hey- that's what we are- a nation of idiots.

B) the vaccines we have might as well be useless. the studies/science are in on them, and they pretty much suck.

C) The concoction of monoclonal antibodies, steroids, and IV drip is probably what really worked for Rogan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 06, 2021, 04:48:53 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on November 06, 2021, 04:03:32 PM

The bigger question: why is anyone taking medical advice from Joe Rogan?

I don't know that anyone is. And Rogan says this 1000000x over on his podcast- that he's a cage fighting comentantor, stand-up comic moron- and no one should take medical advice from him and he's not giving it either. He's just telling people what worked for him. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 06, 2021, 04:53:39 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 06, 2021, 04:48:53 PM

I don't know that anyone is. And Rogan says this 1000000x over on his podcast- that he's a cage fighting comentantor, stand-up comic moron- and no one should take medical advice from him and he's not giving it either. He's just telling people what worked for him.

And this is why they listen to him.  It's not his fault, but people trust him over "medical professionals" because he isn't coming from a position of authority.  Right or wrong, the masses have come to distrust authority figures.  They've learned that some have lied and abused their authority and extrapolated that to mistrust of anyone in authority.
They hear a cool guy giving his thoughts on a matter while absconding any authority or accountability, and when the message is in such pretty packaging, they're more likely to accept it.

It's not complicated.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 06, 2021, 04:56:02 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 06, 2021, 04:53:39 PM

And this is why they listen to him.  It's not his fault, but people trust him over "medical professionals" because he isn't coming from a position of authority.  Right or wrong, the masses have come to distrust authority figures.  They've learned that some have lied and abused their authority and extrapolated that to mistrust of anyone in authority.
They hear a cool guy giving his thoughts on a matter while absconding any authority or accountability, and when the message is in such pretty packaging, they're more likely to accept it.

It's not complicated. 

Yeah, that...or it could also be that the establishment corporate media and the US gov't have lied to the people time and time and time again and again...and gotten so much wrong....no need to even expand on this- there's too many examples.

That a lot of people- rightly distrust their government and the crap they see on the mainstream establishment media.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 06, 2021, 05:02:52 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 06, 2021, 02:49:09 PM

By the way- this entire BS narrative in the mainstream media about ivermectin being a horse dewormer literally blows my mind. Ivermectin is on the WHO's list of essential medicines, it's been dosed to literally billions of humans for like 4 decades, and the discoverer of the compound won the Nobel prize. It's a HUMAN MEDICINE that was invented FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION in which a version of it was repurposed for use in animals. Is water an animal liquid? Is penicillin an animal drug? Like where the hell is this bullshit even coming from? Pretty obvious what's going on here....

Yeah, Ivermectin got a bad rap. I agree with you that there aren't really any conclusive studies that show that it does squat for COVID, but at the same time referring to it as a horse dewormer isn't remotely fair. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 06, 2021, 05:04:14 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 06, 2021, 04:56:02 PM

Yeah, that...or it could also be that the establishment corporate media and the US gov't have lied to the people time and time and time again and again...and gotten so much wrong....no need to even expand on this- there's too many examples.

That a lot of people- rightly distrust their government and the crap they see on the mainstream establishment media.

That doesn't mean they should trust Joe Rogan, though...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 06, 2021, 05:18:11 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 06, 2021, 05:04:14 PM

That doesn't mean they should trust Joe Rogan, though...

Good luck convincing the masses that side against the one thing (authority) to not just blindly go with the other thing (Joe Rogan or Oprah or Whatever-the-Fuck).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 06, 2021, 05:29:26 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 06, 2021, 05:04:14 PM

That doesn't mean they should trust Joe Rogan, though...

Joe Rogan hasn't lied about virtually everything, lied them into 7 wars, committed crimes against humanity, massive human rights violations, lied about WMD's, lied about Russigate and pee pee tapes, done awful negligent journalism/reporting, etc., etc..

I don't think Joe Rogan is pleading for people to trust him. One of the great things about that guy is he talks to EVERYBODY and tries to get viewpoints for things from all-sides- and he's smart enough to know what he doesn't know. Very humble guy with a great god damn podcast.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on November 06, 2021, 05:34:37 PM

I kicked covid in 3 days and all I took was ibuprofen and Advil. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 06, 2021, 05:51:29 PM

I like Joe Rogan. His stand up is hilarious. I don't really know his podcast and don't follow MMA, so I don't know that aspect of him. But he's a good, thought-provoking comedian. 

I'm just saying that Aaron Rodgers basically said that he talked to Rogan and did what Rogan suggested. That's not saying anything about Rogan, but perhaps Rodgers should have consulted, I dunno, an actual medical professional?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 06, 2021, 05:56:06 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 06, 2021, 05:29:26 PM

Joe Rogan hasn't lied about virtually everything, lied them into 7 wars, committed crimes against humanity, massive human rights violations, lied about WMD's, lied about Russigate and pee pee tapes, done awful negligent journalism/reporting, etc., etc..

I don't think Joe Rogan is pleading for people to trust him. One of the great things about that guy is he talks to EVERYBODY and tries to get viewpoints for things from all-sides- and he's smart enough to know what he doesn't know. Very humble guy with a great god damn podcast.

Wow.
What's his cum taste like?
.
He also thought the moon landing was faked until a couple of years ago.  Loves conspiracy theories.  And by his own admission, is mostly an idiot.  
And he does have a good podcast.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 06, 2021, 05:57:19 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 06, 2021, 05:51:29 PM

 but perhaps Rodgers should have consulted, I dunno, an actual medical professional?

"But if one of them has been wrong/dishonest/misunderstood, then NONE of them can be trusted!!!!!!" - the masses

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 06, 2021, 06:00:31 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 06, 2021, 05:51:29 PM

I like Joe Rogan. His stand up is hilarious. I don't really know his podcast and don't follow MMA, so I don't know that aspect of him. But he's a good, thought-provoking comedian.

I'm just saying that Aaron Rodgers basically said that he talked to Rogan and did what Rogan suggested. That's not saying anything about Rogan, but perhaps Rodgers should have consulted, I dunno, an actual medical professional?

I'm kind of the opposite. I think his stand up is kinda meh. I don't follow MMA either. I knew of him obviously being he was on News Radio, a stand-up, and Fear Factor- but I really only became aware of him through his podcast. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 06, 2021, 06:00:46 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 06, 2021, 05:56:06 PM

Wow.
What's his cum taste like?
.
He also thought the moon landing was faked until a couple of years ago.  Loves conspiracy theories.  And by his own admission, is mostly an idiot. 
And he does have a good podcast.

You have serious issues. That's all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 06, 2021, 06:01:31 PM

You gave him a public digital blowjob.  It was the natural question.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 06, 2021, 06:02:10 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 06, 2021, 05:57:19 PM

"But if one of them has been wrong/dishonest/misunderstood, then NONE of them can be trusted!!!!!!" - the masses

Nah. The masses mostly trust their dishonest institutions like the blind stupid sheep they are and are obedient little sheeple. 

“The mass of men live lives of quiet desperation”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 06, 2021, 06:03:28 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 06, 2021, 05:51:29 PM

I'm just saying that Aaron Rodgers basically said that he talked to Rogan and did what Rogan suggested. That's not saying anything about Rogan, but perhaps Rodgers should have consulted, I dunno, an actual medical professional?

By the way- I'll bet dollars to donuts he talked with an actual Doctor. He is a world class professional athlete after all- and NFL owners pay millions to have armies of doctors to be on call.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 06, 2021, 06:04:37 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 06, 2021, 06:01:31 PM

You gave him a public digital blowjob.  It was the natural question.

(https://i.imgur.com/26UKf3q_d.webp?maxwidth=760&fidelity=grand)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 06, 2021, 06:04:51 PM

You haven't noticed the paradigm shift since 2016 when it comes to the masses and alternative facts?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 06, 2021, 06:06:21 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 06, 2021, 06:03:28 PM

By the way- I'll bet dollars to donuts he talked with an actual Doctor. He is a world class professional athlete after all- and NFL owners pay millions to have armies of doctors to be on call.

Well, his judgment in doctors is also questionable, considering he thought he was immunized against COVID due to homeopathic treatment...


https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/11/report-covid-positive-aaron-rodgers-told-nfl-he-was-immunized-with-homeopathy/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 06, 2021, 06:10:42 PM

People who take hundreds of years of medical advancement and throw it down the drain are idiots.

 Go watch 'Naked and Afraid' - they're given survival items and still, no one thrives.  It's a show of who can endure hunger, dehydration, and boredom the best.  

Aaron Rodgers would enjoy living in a treehouse, growing his own radishes, and making a palm frond hat for about 12 minutes before his hangnail crippled him and he fell off the razor's edge of survival.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 06, 2021, 06:15:30 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 06, 2021, 06:04:51 PM

You haven't noticed the paradigm shift since 2016 when it comes to the masses and alternative facts?

There is no such thing as alternative fact.

What I have noticed is the internet has democratized information and has allowed for people to learn truths that the establishment has been able for decades to control. That control is over. And rightfully so. And they are freaking out about losing control- and have no idea what to do.

It is about god-damn time that people stop blindly trusting the Washington Post, NY Times, CNN, NBC, Fox. I am glad that it is happening.

CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS. This is what is not taught in schools or universities- and which is why we are a nation of idiots who parrot whatever their "masters" or betters tell them to.

And I can say that I have noticed since 2016-present; the mainstream media giddily helped certain what I would call criminal elements in the US government (*cough* intelligence agencies *cough*) perpetuate by far the biggest hoax that I've seen since Iraq/WMD's debacle- and while their narrative was already completely blown apart- we are now seeing over the past few weeks indictments of the people who helped propel that hoax. Turns out they were working for the Clinton campaign and people close to the Clinton campaign. ZOINKS.

And from 2016 to present, I have noticed that a litany of former intelligence ghouls and creatures get high paying jobs at mainstream news outlets. This is COMPLETELY unacceptable and runs counter to what a free press is supposed to exist for. 

Our institutions continue to do themselves in with their bullshit and lies. You want people to have more faith in the press and in the government? Pretty easy fix- they need to start being held to account when they screw up or break the law. Fauci should be fired and prosecuted for lying to congress- which is a felony. News outlets should fire every single ex-CIA/FBI operative they have working for them and anyone of them with half a brain should already realize- hey yeah- maybe we shouldn't be hiring those guys. They do lie about everything for a living...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 06, 2021, 06:19:08 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 06, 2021, 06:15:30 PM

What I have noticed is the internet has democratized information and has allowed for people to learn truths that the establishment has been able for decades to control. That control is over. And rightfully so. And they are freaking out about losing control- and have no idea what to do.

It's also allowed people to learn falsehoods that they believe the establishment has been "holding down". 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 06, 2021, 06:22:35 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 06, 2021, 06:15:30 PM

There is no such thing as alternative fact.

What I have noticed is the internet has democratized information and has allowed for people to learn truths that the establishment has been able for decades to control. That control is over. And rightfully so. And they are freaking out about losing control- and have no idea what to do.  Yes, this is why religion is in free-fall.  Atheism is spreading like wildfire.

It is about god-damn time that people stop blindly trusting the Washington Post, NY Times, CNN, NBC, Fox. I am glad that it is happening.

CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS. This is what is not taught in schools or universities- and which is why we are a nation of idiots who parrot whatever their "masters" or betters tell them to.  Critical thinking skills is literally taught in school.

Critical thinking isn't big with those in authority, including parents and entry-level job creators.  They want subjugation and ease of interaction.  They want their orders followed and don't have the time for questions.
Critical thinking is taught to them, but it has no place in the life of a normal young person (age 14-24 or so).  Saying it's not taught is 100% false.  Its simply forgotten because it has no utility if you're entering the real world.  THAT is the real problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 06, 2021, 06:24:10 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 06, 2021, 06:19:08 PM

It's also allowed people to learn falsehoods that they believe the establishment has been "holding down".

Yeah...not buying that. Conspiracy theories have been around forever. Maybe it's helped conspiracy theories spread- but the internet is a tool- it simply allows for ALL information to spread. 

NY Times/WaPo and CNN/MSNBC/Fox etc., etc.. have been parroting falsehood for decades- so don't even go there.

Take a guy like Julian Assange or Edward Snowden. They have allowed us to learn things about our government and the gross crimes it commits that we would NEVER have in a million years been able to learn about if not for the internet. And what do they get for their heroism?

US gov't plotted to kill Julian Assange and are now trying to extradite him and put him in a black cell for the rest of his life. Edward Snowden is stuck in Russia forever because the US gov't revoked his passport while he was in Russia and on his way to Ecuador where he was granted asylum. If they could get their hands on him they'd throw him in a black cage forever too. 

Take all the news shows on YouTube that do better job reporting news than cable/mainstream news.

More information is better than less information, period.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 06, 2021, 06:34:21 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 06, 2021, 06:22:35 PM

Critical thinking isn't big with those in authority, including parents and entry-level job creators.  They want subjugation and ease of interaction.  They want their orders followed and don't have the time for questions.
Critical thinking is taught to them, but it has no place in the life of a normal young person (age 14-24 or so).  Saying it's not taught is 100% false.  Its simply forgotten because it has no utility if you're entering the real world.  THAT is the real problem.

You make it like it's some conspiracy from "authority". 

People are bad at critical thinking because most people don't have the stomach for it. It's hard. It sometimes requires you to seriously question your "identity", i.e. your affiliation with your tribe. It requires you to do research fairly, not try to do research that only agrees with you [i.e. confirmation bias]. 

You're the one who constantly derides "the masses", but then blames "those in authority" for the problem. Which is it? 

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 06, 2021, 06:24:10 PM

Yeah...not buying that. Conspiracy theories have been around forever. Maybe it's helped conspiracy theories spread- but the internet is a tool- it simply allows for ALL information to spread.
More information is better than less information, period.

Again, the issue is confirmation bias. The internet has created the ability for people to construct realities around themselves such that they never HAVE to engage all the information out there. And humans being humans, that's what they do. 

Where that leads is people increasingly getting silo'd into, effectively, cults. They generate communities where you're either part of the "in-group" or the "out-group", which reward blind obedience to the dogma of the in-group and shunning anyone who ever defects. Literally in these scenarios, critical thinking will get you ostracized. 

I used to believe that more information SHOULD be better, but I feel that it's largely broken society. 

Whether humanity can remake society successfully to come out of this is unknown, but I wouldn't lay good odds in that favor personally. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 06, 2021, 06:40:53 PM

Quote

A) Ivermectin isn't "worm medicine"

It absolutely is worm medicine. That's explicitly what it is. 

Quote

the vaccines we have might as well be useless. the studies/science are in on them, and they pretty much suck.

Nope. There is no question about this. The vaccines are the only actual preventative treatment that works. Anti-viral medications have been tested for years, and typically are mostly useless. There is the promise of one derived from HIV medications that may be good. Still, the vaccines are far, far more effective than anything else widely available out there, including Ivermectin, which has no known uses against COVID and is mostly a message boar rumor gone wild.

Quote

The concoction of monoclonal antibodies, steroids, and IV drip is probably what really worked for Rogan.

Rogan, as far as I know, is mostly healthy, and like most of the people who got COVID, he got sick and then recovered. It's doubtful any of those treatments did anything particularly useful. Steroids might have made him feel good, I dunno. Antibodies maybe, there is at least some reason to think they would, though the vaccine would be more effective in prevention.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 06, 2021, 06:43:52 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 06, 2021, 06:40:53 PM

It absolutely is worm medicine. That's explicitly what it is.

No. That's ONE thing that it is. It has an application as a horse dewormer. 

It also has quite a few legitimate human uses. It's a real human medicine. 

So it is not explicitly a worm medicine. 

To treat it as if it is ONLY a horse dewormer is intellectually dishonest.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 06, 2021, 06:47:24 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 06, 2021, 06:34:21 PM

You make it like it's some conspiracy from "authority".

People are bad at critical thinking because most people don't have the stomach for it. It's hard. It sometimes requires you to seriously question your "identity", i.e. your affiliation with your tribe. It requires you to do research fairly, not try to do research that only agrees with you [i.e. confirmation bias].

You're the one who constantly derides "the masses", but then blames "those in authority" for the problem. Which is it?
Again, the issue is confirmation bias. The internet has created the ability for people to construct realities around themselves such that they never HAVE to engage all the information out there. And humans being humans, that's what they do.

Confirmation bias used to be all there was, because you only interacted with those in your tribe.
Then we had cities.  Radio.  TV.
We cannot throw our hands up and say it's just "humans being humans."
We can improve.  We have improved.  
People who live around and interact with people other than their tribe are more progressive.  Empathetic.  Inclusive.  There's infinite evidence of this.  It's fact.
My disdain for the masses is akin to there being 100 slaves and 1 guard, but they remain enslaved.  
My disdain for the authority in power is that they will do anything to promote the status quo.  Why change things when your 1 guard can keep 100 slaves down?

Both sides are failing and that's why powerful societies can only be at the top for awhile.  A century or so.  
The poor and downtrodden don't vote.  Everyone hates Congress, but 90%+ win their elections.  
5 companies own everything.
It's broken, both because the winners want to keep winning and because the losers don't create change.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 06, 2021, 06:49:15 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 06, 2021, 06:34:21 PM

You're the one who constantly derides "the masses", but then blames "those in authority" for the problem. Which is it?

This very question presupposes it's one or the other.  Don't presuppose.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 06, 2021, 06:49:56 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 06, 2021, 06:43:52 PM

No. That's ONE thing that it is. It has an application as a horse dewormer.

It also has quite a few legitimate human uses. It's a real human medicine.

So it is not explicitly a worm medicine.

To treat it as if it is ONLY a horse dewormer is intellectually dishonest.

It is explicitly a worm medicine. It is a horse dewormer, and a people dewormer. Because it's a worm medicine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 06, 2021, 06:51:39 PM

Joe Rogan has worms?

Let me put that on Tic-Toc and it'll be fact in an hour.

None of this makes sense.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 06, 2021, 06:54:41 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 06, 2021, 06:51:39 PM

Joe Rogan has worms?

Let me put that on Tic-Toc and it'll be fact in an hour.

None of this makes sense.

Lmao. Facts. 

TikTok makes no sense- teenage girls making millions of dollars on there dancing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 06, 2021, 06:59:05 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 06, 2021, 06:47:24 PM

Confirmation bias used to be all there was, because you only interacted with those in your tribe.
Then we had cities.  Radio.  TV.
We cannot throw our hands up and say it's just "humans being humans."
We can improve.  We have improved. 
People who live around and interact with people other than their tribe are more progressive.  Empathetic.  Inclusive.  There's infinite evidence of this.  It's fact.

Yeah, but the "inclusive" thing then goes the opposite way. People pat their backs about how progressive, empathetic, and inclusive they are. 

Then my wife's friend who lives in Long Beach and is certainly in the group one may describe as "woke" goes to Las Vegas and complains endlessly on their group text about how everyone in Vegas is a MAGA hatter and how horrible it is. 

Empathetic and inclusive, as long as you completely toe the line they've put in the dirt. 

The urban "progressive" tribe, to their credit, are somewhat good at becoming inclusive with the regards to race, or sexual orientation, etc. They no longer tolerate diversity of thought/opinion, though. They ABSOLUTELY have an out-group, and they have no empathy for that group, as evidenced by the way they talk about them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 06, 2021, 07:00:38 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 06, 2021, 06:59:05 PM

Yeah, but the "inclusive" thing then goes the opposite way. People pat their backs about how progressive, empathetic, and inclusive they are.

Then my wife's friend who lives in Long Beach and is certainly in the group one may describe as "woke" goes to Las Vegas and complains endlessly on their group text about how everyone in Vegas is a MAGA hatter and how horrible it is.

Empathetic and inclusive, as long as you completely toe the line they've put in the dirt.

The urban "progressive" tribe, to their credit, are somewhat good at becoming inclusive with the regards to race, or sexual orientation, etc. They no longer tolerate diversity of thought/opinion, though. They ABSOLUTELY have an out-group, and they have no empathy for that group, as evidenced by the way they talk about them.

Amen brother.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on November 06, 2021, 07:05:45 PM

Damn. Our defense has improved vastly. Calzada, while up and down, is one tough SOB. 

C’mon Bama. Lose one more. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 06, 2021, 07:07:10 PM

Quote from: Gigem on November 06, 2021, 07:05:45 PM

Damn. Our defense has improved vastly. Calzada, while up and down, is one tough SOB.

C’mon Bama. Lose one more.

your defense bout to get a whole lot better in the future. A&M going to have a whale of a defensive class in 2022 looks like.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 06, 2021, 07:14:57 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 06, 2021, 06:59:05 PM

Yeah, but the "inclusive" thing then goes the opposite way. People pat their backs about how progressive, empathetic, and inclusive they are.

Then my wife's friend who lives in Long Beach and is certainly in the group one may describe as "woke" goes to Las Vegas and complains endlessly on their group text about how everyone in Vegas is a MAGA hatter and how horrible it is.

Empathetic and inclusive, as long as you completely toe the line they've put in the dirt.

The urban "progressive" tribe, to their credit, are somewhat good at becoming inclusive with the regards to race, or sexual orientation, etc. They no longer tolerate diversity of thought/opinion, though. They ABSOLUTELY have an out-group, and they have no empathy for that group, as evidenced by the way they talk about them.

Absolutely true - their tribe has become what it hates.  It's hilarious and stupid.

The moment it wasn't okay to have the conversation, they were in the wrong and built a mirror of hypocrisy. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 07, 2021, 10:42:58 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 06, 2021, 06:49:56 PM

It is explicitly a worm medicine. It is a horse dewormer, and a people dewormer. Because it's a worm medicine.

If my doctor told me to take it, I would. I'd take anything if it had a chance to help me. I'd think anyone would.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 07, 2021, 10:50:46 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/Q8rCfyl.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 07, 2021, 10:53:42 AM

I have not seen good evidence ivermectin works on COVID.  I think one study suggested it might, and most say it has no impact.  Some in vitro studies were positive, but those studies are not very indicative of much more than a need for clinical trials.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 07, 2021, 11:27:51 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 06, 2021, 06:59:05 PM

Yeah, but the "inclusive" thing then goes the opposite way. People pat their backs about how progressive, empathetic, and inclusive they are.

Then my wife's friend who lives in Long Beach and is certainly in the group one may describe as "woke" goes to Las Vegas and complains endlessly on their group text about how everyone in Vegas is a MAGA hatter and how horrible it is.

Empathetic and inclusive, as long as you completely toe the line they've put in the dirt.

The urban "progressive" tribe, to their credit, are somewhat good at becoming inclusive with the regards to race, or sexual orientation, etc. They no longer tolerate diversity of thought/opinion, though. They ABSOLUTELY have an out-group, and they have no empathy for that group, as evidenced by the way they talk about them.

Not sure I've ever heard Vegas described as some sort of Conservative Mecca


(https://images.bestneighborhood.org/map/1280x720/race/racial-map-las-vegas-nv.webp)

The Yella is predominately Hispanic; the vast majority of the city including the entire East side, and surrounding downtown and the strip. 

The Green is MLK Blvd. 

The Blue are the White folk in the outskirts of suburbia where no one goes; many of which are flaming Leftists. 

The Red are Asian pockets, which oddly doesn't include China Town, which is predominately Mexican according to this map.

I mean the city is so bright blue that it flips an otherwise Bright Red state, but okay. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 07, 2021, 11:30:56 AM

I doubt the people she was talking about actually live in Vegas, lol.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 07, 2021, 11:40:36 AM

Citizens or not, it doesn't change the bigotry and intolerance coming from people who claim to be inclusive.

Not only do they claim to be inclusive, they claim it as one of their core tenets, one of their fundamental beliefs, that they feel makes them superior to those that they then turn around and refuse to tolerate.

The irony and hypocrisy are astounding, really.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 07, 2021, 11:47:16 AM

I once was in a "diversity" training at work long ago and asked the "facilitator", who had been encouraging us to be accepting of all ways of thinking if that included Nazis.

She said no, and went on from there.  I later learned the best way to get these things over is to ask NO questions, anyone who asked got mean stares until they shut up.  We'd get out by 2 PM often as not.  I later learned I would not be fired if I simply didn't go.   In your first years you think "mandatory" means you really have to go.

I never was a fan of "valuing all opinions".  BS.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 07, 2021, 11:56:42 AM

When you think of Cali, you picture a bunch of laid back, quasi rebellious folk. Anti-establishment Spicoli types. 

Kind of funny that they are actually just a bunch of establishment whores, fully assimilated to the borg, thoroughly incapable of forming their own, unique opinions; Fro types. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 07, 2021, 11:58:24 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 07, 2021, 11:56:42 AM

When you think of Cali, you picture a bunch of laid back, quasi rebellious folk. Anti-establishment Spicoli types.

Kind of funny that they are actually just a bunch of establishment whores, fully assimilated to the borg, thoroughly incapable of forming their own, unique opinions; Fro types.

it is pretty astounding actually. 

Cali used to be the epicentre of the counterculture. Now they are the epicenter of the Democratic establishment. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 07, 2021, 12:02:29 PM

My only beef w Cali is 
Berthoalphadelta ate those damn ribs yesterday without sharing a photo. 

🤨

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 07, 2021, 12:18:37 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 07, 2021, 11:40:36 AM

The irony and hypocrisy are astounding, really.

I literally said the same thing a few posts up, but your groupies only like your post.  Strange.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 07, 2021, 12:19:10 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 07, 2021, 11:56:42 AM

When you think of Cali, you picture a bunch of laid back, quasi rebellious folk. Anti-establishment Spicoli types.

Kind of funny that they are actually just a bunch of establishment whores, fully assimilated to the borg, thoroughly incapable of forming their own, unique opinions; Fro types.

Bruh, move on.  Stalk someone else already.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 07, 2021, 01:31:28 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 07, 2021, 12:02:29 PM

My only beef w Cali is
Berthoalphadelta ate those damn ribs yesterday without sharing a photo.

🤨

And they're not even producing much beef at all. The shame of it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 07, 2021, 01:46:47 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 06, 2021, 06:59:05 PM

Yeah, but the "inclusive" thing then goes the opposite way. People pat their backs about how progressive, empathetic, and inclusive they are.

Then my wife's friend who lives in Long Beach and is certainly in the group one may describe as "woke" goes to Las Vegas and complains endlessly on their group text about how everyone in Vegas is a MAGA hatter and how horrible it is.

Empathetic and inclusive, as long as you completely toe the line they've put in the dirt.

The urban "progressive" tribe, to their credit, are somewhat good at becoming inclusive with the regards to race, or sexual orientation, etc. They no longer tolerate diversity of thought/opinion, though. They ABSOLUTELY have an out-group, and they have no empathy for that group, as evidenced by the way they talk about them.

This strikes me as a somewhat universal problem. We are all members of many tribes, and we all often delight in out-grouping each other. 

The urban "progressive" tribe look down on all sorts of folks. It's gross and it's bad. I got into it with someone who was talking bad about never wanting to go to Texas because of something with politics, and I pointed out the Houston, Dallas, Austin are all places they would find perfectly lovely and suitable to their tribe (not to mention they're about to move to a much redder state with a few blue dots, one of which they will live in). State lines are in many ways very imaginary, the world doesn't really change when you cross them.

Now of course, the flip side is true. A lot of rural folks will be painted as and describe themselves as good, hard working salt of the earth folks. And they'll be all manner of catty and crappy to other people as well. They'll be afraid of the big scary cities, cold and unwelcoming of outsiders, intolerant of a great many things. 

And of course, unless we're aggressively political in each other's faces (or aggressive in other ways), we are all pretty good at getting along if we want to be. My parents are probably too political in certain ways (less aggressive than many), and yet they'll drive to very rural spots and get in chats with strangers they might see as different in the abstract. 

(Your acquaintance with the vegas things sounds like she’s doing some projecting. Which, to be fair, we all do a fair amount of, projecting things we see as sinister on things mostly mundane. )

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 07, 2021, 02:23:08 PM

A friend is opening a new restaurant up the street, we got a tour today, opens Dec 3.

Saints and Council

(https://i.imgur.com/pXtSybR.png)

Saints + Council - Midtown, Atlanta, Atlanta, GA (saintsandcouncil.com) (https://saintsandcouncil.com/)

They will have an outdoor seating area with heated seats, and overhead heat as well, and a fire pit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 07, 2021, 02:39:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 07, 2021, 02:23:08 PM

A friend is opening a new restaurant up the street, we got a tour today, opens Dec 3.

Saints and Council

(https://i.imgur.com/pXtSybR.png)

Saints + Council - Midtown, Atlanta, Atlanta, GA (saintsandcouncil.com) (https://saintsandcouncil.com/)

They will have an outdoor seating area with heated seats, and overhead heat as well, and a fire pit.

How cool.  Photos of food look amazing.  did not see a menu but don’t need to.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 07, 2021, 02:45:47 PM

They are still working on menu, they have an interesting server concept, you order by phone app and the food is brought to your table by runners.  The chef has a main station overlooking the dining room area and will finalize each meal as it comes from the kitchen.  We're going to their soft opening Dec 2, will report back.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 07, 2021, 02:52:16 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/bbEIu7q.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 07, 2021, 03:02:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 07, 2021, 02:45:47 PM

They are still working on menu, they have an interesting server concept, you order by phone app and the food is brought to your table by runners.  The chef has a main station overlooking the dining room area and will finalize each meal as it comes from the kitchen.  We're going to their soft opening Dec 2, will report back.

Id starve as I dont have a mobile phone

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 07, 2021, 04:22:09 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 07, 2021, 03:02:31 PM

Id starve as I dont have a mobile phone

Cuz that's how they get you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 07, 2021, 07:25:37 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 07, 2021, 12:02:29 PM

My only beef w Cali is
Berthoalphadelta ate those damn ribs yesterday without sharing a photo.

🤨

No photos,i don't have smellivision - we want samples not pictures

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 07, 2021, 11:51:37 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 07, 2021, 11:56:42 AM

When you think of Cali, you picture a bunch of laid back, quasi rebellious folk. Anti-establishment Spicoli types.

Kind of funny that they are actually just a bunch of establishment whores, fully assimilated to the borg, thoroughly incapable of forming their own, unique opinions; Fro types.

Cali is a big place. It's pretty much all kinds. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 08, 2021, 12:28:16 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 07, 2021, 11:51:37 PM

Cali is a big place. It's pretty much all kinds.

But if they can't generalize about 37 million people, then how can their hypocrisy be on full display when they bitch about identity politics?!?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 08, 2021, 01:27:00 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 07, 2021, 11:51:37 PM

Cali is a big place. It's pretty much all kinds.

Okay... "The overwhelming majority..." ::)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 08, 2021, 07:24:15 AM

Rural CA can look like Texas, a lot, and they vote like Texas too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 08, 2021, 08:39:59 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 07, 2021, 12:18:37 PM

I literally said the same thing a few posts up, but your groupies only like your post.  Strange.

I have groupies, yay!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 08, 2021, 08:41:45 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 08, 2021, 07:24:15 AM

Rural CA can look like Texas, a lot, and they vote like Texas too.

Same all over the place.  Rural upstate NY.  Rural CA.  Rural Texas.

By the way, urban Texas is voting a lot more Dem than ever before.  Austin has been left-leaning forever, but now Dallas and Houston are moving in that direction. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 08, 2021, 08:47:17 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 08, 2021, 08:41:45 AM

Same all over the place.  Rural upstate NY.  Rural CA.  Rural Texas.

By the way, urban Texas is voting a lot more Dem than ever before.  Austin has been left-leaning forever, but now Dallas and Houston are moving in that direction.

Time to fire up the kidney stealing business and to scare away potential left leaning folks from moving to Texas. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 08, 2021, 09:06:43 AM

I live in a very urban and diverse area, pretty upscale, and I'm pretty sure the voters are mostly liberal.  Our Congressman ran unopposed most of the time, until he passed.

The city is "whitening" at a pretty rapid pace.

White flight in reverse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 08, 2021, 09:22:33 AM

Upstate NY would be awesome, if it didn't have that NYC boil on its butt. 

Beautiful area. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 08, 2021, 09:31:10 AM

Rural Minnesota also looks and votes a lot like rural Texas. 

Windmills, heavily subsidized agribusiness, Confederate flags, and all. The irony is thick.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 08, 2021, 09:56:48 AM

maybe all that big city smog is creating democrates

its these cans, he hates these cans

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 08, 2021, 10:23:48 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 08, 2021, 09:06:43 AM

I live in a very urban and diverse area, pretty upscale, and I'm pretty sure the voters are mostly liberal.  Our Congressman ran unopposed most of the time, until he passed.

The city is "whitening" at a pretty rapid pace.

White flight in reverse.

and your mayor was booed at the Braves rally?
nice

I like my rural area and won't be moving to an urban area anytime soon

even if/when I do move to Texas, it really won't be in utee's hood.  Too urban.  Same as my brother's area in Colleyville.  I'd prefer a small town outside the metro

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 08, 2021, 10:27:21 AM

Quote

longhorn320:

maybe all that big city smog is creating democrates

its these cans, he hates these cans

Hooky used to say sort of the opposite.  He noted an increase in fire-ants in Texas through the 70s and 80s, alongside an increase in Republicans, as if they were related. :)


I always tried to remind him that it was really just the people who had always voted Democrat in the Solid South, finally realizing that the Dems didn't actually represent their rural, conservative views.  The first time my grandfather ever voted Republican was in the 1980 presidential election.  But the Democratic party hadn't represented his actual views for a couple of decades at that point.

I'm speaking nationally of course.  Locally, at the time, there really wasn't a whole lot of difference between the two parties.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 08, 2021, 10:29:26 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 08, 2021, 10:23:48 AM

even if/when I do move to Texas, it really won't be in utee's hood.  Too urban.  Same as my brother's area in Colleyville.  I'd prefer a small town outside the metro

More courses of course

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 08, 2021, 10:48:49 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 08, 2021, 10:23:48 AM

even if/when I do move to Texas, it really won't be in utee's hood.  Too urban.  Same as my brother's area in Colleyville.  I'd prefer a small town outside the metro

Oh I'm with you.  As soon as the kids are done with high school, I'm leaving the big city (suburbs) and headed for the country.

Or, some island in the Caribbean.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 08, 2021, 11:20:48 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 08, 2021, 09:56:48 AM

maybe all that big city smog is creating democrates

its these cans, he hates these cans

Finally, some consensus on environmentalism

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 08, 2021, 11:25:08 AM

Jeez, if you took a little time to consider it, you might start to think that people are just people, wherever they live... We're all sorta the same, and we like to make a huge deal about minor disagreements over trivial matters out of our control.

Nah, that's crazy talk. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 08, 2021, 11:32:06 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 08, 2021, 11:25:08 AM

Jeez, if you took a little time to consider it, you might start to think that people are just people, wherever they live... We're all sorta the same, and we like to make a huge deal about minor disagreements over trivial matters out of our control.

Nah, that's crazy talk.

Shhhh. Next thing you’ll tell me, it’s silly to write off a place because it is several hours from but contained within the same imaginary line as another place I don’t like. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 08, 2021, 02:45:26 PM

See, the board Californians are displaying a much higher snark factor right now than the rest. Definitely something in the water... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 08, 2021, 03:23:58 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 08, 2021, 02:45:26 PM

See, the board Californians are displaying a much higher snark factor right now than the rest. Definitely something in the water...

If you live in a city larger than 85,000, it's available in pill or patch format. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 08, 2021, 03:37:42 PM

In California, it's usually smoked, unless you're into edibles.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 08, 2021, 03:42:02 PM

I detest smoking. I've never tried the hippie lettuce, and it's largely related to smoking.  I know people put it into brownies, and these days gummies or whatever,  but that just seems like it's trying too hard.

If you could drink it like booze, and it actually tasted good, I'm sure I'd have tried it long ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 08, 2021, 03:44:12 PM

I should mention that I don't personally do that. Not that I'm critical of anyone who does, but it doesn't personally give me an enjoyable experience more than 1-2 times out of 10, so I just stay away.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 08, 2021, 03:49:27 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 08, 2021, 03:44:12 PM

I should mention that I don't personally do that. Not that I'm critical of anyone who does, but it doesn't personally give me an enjoyable experience more than 1-2 times out of 10, so I just stay away.

Oh yeah, I don't care if anyone else does it, as long as they obey the normal laws associated with DUI etc.  I think it should be legal and treated like alcohol.  It's just not my thing.

I'm so sensitive to nasty smoke smells, it actually keeps me away from a lot of outdoor concerts and festivals that I might otherwise attend.  We had the kids with us at the Indycar race in Austin a couple years ago, and we stayed for the Muse concert that night.  There was a group of 20-somethings near us that blazed up such disgusting skunkweed that my kids were getting sick to their stomach.

The kids asked us what that awful smell was and we explained exactly what was going on.  They both said they'll never, ever do drugs.  I guess we'll see but I know they hate smoking just as much as I do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 08, 2021, 04:28:29 PM

What kind of alcohol would you mix the weed drink with?

:singing:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 08, 2021, 04:33:19 PM

To each his own….

Tried it my much younger days and served to make me worry and hungry.  🥴

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 08, 2021, 04:49:38 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 08, 2021, 04:33:19 PM

To each his own….

Tried it my much younger days and served to make me worry and hungry.  🥴

Same, but I rather like gummies now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 08, 2021, 05:05:49 PM

The gummies didn't even give me a buzz. But they sure were expensive. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 08, 2021, 06:11:38 PM

You getting it on with old hookers ?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 08, 2021, 06:15:14 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 08, 2021, 04:28:29 PM

What kind of alcohol would you mix the weed drink with?

:singing:

A stoner friend in HS (or maybe early college), said you could soak bad weed in a bottle of vodka for like a month and get a potent beverage of some sort. 

He’s a lawyer now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 08, 2021, 06:18:37 PM

If it tastes anything like it smells, no thanks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 08, 2021, 06:20:45 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 08, 2021, 06:11:38 PM

You getting it on with old hookers ?

What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 08, 2021, 06:21:14 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 08, 2021, 06:15:14 PM

He’s a lawyer now.

Maximum Sam ?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 08, 2021, 06:23:25 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 08, 2021, 06:20:45 PM

What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.

Decades ago before Vegas stole that I remember that being said about NFL Locker rooms

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 08, 2021, 11:17:57 PM

Guy getting swarmed by bees jumps into piranha infested lake. 

https://www.9news.com.au/national/brazil-news-man-eaten-by-piranhas-after-jumping-into-lake-to-escape-bees/be2c4793-b194-450f-9958-75bbd49e26fe?utm_source=join1440&utm_medium=email&utm_placement=newsletter

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 09, 2021, 08:31:00 AM

Biden using the FBI like he's Stalin and they are his KGB. 

Project Veritas journalists as well as it's founder gets their homes f**cking raided by the FBI over a diary reportedly belonging to Joe Biden's daughter. Reportedly they received the diary from a tipster/source- they tried to authenticate it and could not- so they decided not to publish the story or contents of the diary. They then tried to turn over the diary to a lawyer of the Biden family, the lawyer apparently refused to take the diary. Apparently they then turned the diary over to law enforcement about a year ago- and a year later the FBI raids them.

The FBI is investigating a diary that Biden's daughter now claims was stolen. This shit is unreal.  

Between the Biden administration trying to extradite Julian Assange for the crime of committing journalism and now this? This shit is scary. 

This country is in a dark place. Been going to hell in a handbasket at an accelerating place. DOJ/FBI/CIA/NSA need to be completely blown up, shut down, every single person working for them fired, and just re-booted with heavy civilian oversights baked in.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 09, 2021, 09:06:37 AM

Mdot21 youre beginning to sound like me 

better be careful theyll becoming after you next

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 09, 2021, 09:10:38 AM

admittedly I have not been following this much, because frankly I don't really give too much of shit...but this is pretty wild...

In that Rittenhouse kids trial- one of the states star witnesses/antifa super homo just admitted in court that Rittenhouse did not fire his weapon until this antifa dweeb pointed his gun directly at Rittenhouse and advanced at Rittenhouse.

Then to read about Facebook/PayPal/GoFundMe shutting down campaigns/pages for trying to help raise money for his legal defense- WOW. This world is so ass backwards it's insane. The power these private Big Tech companies have over the public needs to be put in check. Right now. Right f**ckin now. If they can continue to enjoy immunity from lawsuits because of Section 230 than they DO NOT need to censor shit unless it's obvious law breaking (think child porn, death threats, etc..) If they want to play Mr. Censor- then get rid of 230 and let them kick up their censorship act or get sued into oblivion. Can't have it both ways. The internet and these platforms are public utilities. No different than telephones. They are the modern day public square.

Oh by the way- then to find out one of the people this Ritternhouse shot and killed was a FIVE TIME convicted child molestor who molested 5 boys between the ages of 9 and 11 and served prison time and was a registered sex offender- WTF. They shouldn't even have charged him with anything on that guy. Should've given him a god damn medal for getting rid of human scum. 

I'm talking out of my ass and haven't really followed that trial close enough to have an opinion any which way- but did see this Antifa bitch admit in court that Rittenhouse didn't fire until he advanced towards Rittenhouse with his gun pointed at Rittenhouse. And then I saw that one of the guys this Rittenhouse shot and killed was a pedo- and dude- I am never against that. I am generally against the death penalty and can tolerate a lot of shit- but a child molestor- yeah those sick freaks can die and burn in hell for all I care.

https://twitter.com/rachelbovard/status/1457893089687871488?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 09, 2021, 09:17:02 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 09, 2021, 09:06:37 AM

Mdot21 youre beginning to sound like me

better be careful theyll becoming after you next

FBI/CIA always been creatures of the dark that have committed some heinous f**cked up shit against both the citizens of this country and of other countries.

You'd think by now that congress should've gotten control over them and reigned them in. They haven't. Time to blow them up and start over.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 09, 2021, 09:21:49 AM

Congress doesn't do shit, but spend money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 09, 2021, 09:37:17 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 09, 2021, 09:21:49 AM

Congress doesn't do shit, but spend money

it is literally crazy to me how they routinely have approval rating in the 10's to 20's % yet they all get re-elected like 90+% of the time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 09, 2021, 10:07:57 AM

the midterms will help a lot

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 09, 2021, 10:08:42 AM

obviously a severe lack of better options 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 09, 2021, 10:11:28 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 09, 2021, 10:08:42 AM

obviously a severe lack of better options

in a lot of cases there are much better options
hope the voters feel the same way

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 09, 2021, 10:17:44 AM

a different color of hat isn't much of a better option IMO.

mid-terms may give hats of a different color a few seats, won't change much

regardless of what party has control, Congress doesn't do shit, but spend money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 09, 2021, 10:18:32 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 09, 2021, 10:07:57 AM

the midterms will help a lot

Looking forward to congressional investigations into whether Big Bird is a communist

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 09, 2021, 10:26:32 AM

Hey if it's okay for Joe Camel to sell cigs, then it's fine for Big Bird to pimp vaccines.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 09, 2021, 10:39:27 AM

two wrongs, don't make a right

double negatives suck

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 09, 2021, 10:42:53 AM

utee sellin' Austin futures

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 09, 2021, 10:55:00 AM

short-selling

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 09, 2021, 11:27:23 AM

Speaking of Pedos, what was allegedly in Biden's daughter's diary? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 09, 2021, 11:38:40 AM

some nasty unconfirmed lies about her brother?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 09, 2021, 11:41:29 AM

On this day, November 9, 1975, the Edmund Fitzgerald departed from Superior, Wisconsin at 2:15 pm with 26,116 tons of taconite headed for Detroit, Michigan. The Fitzgerald was under the leadership of Captain Ernest M. McSorley. Later that afternoon, the Fitz met the Arthur M. Anderson (Captain Jesse B. Cooper) as it left Two Harbors, Minnesota. Due to the storm headed north, both McSorley and Cooper decided to travel north of the usual shipping lanes, a common practice in poor weather.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/254707588_4630504716987810_7275232025334741410_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=AG7ADuoZVfIAX_N6n3G&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=028019a840219e1a98ec5aedf77bf716&oe=61AF9591)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 09, 2021, 11:48:56 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 09, 2021, 11:27:23 AM

Speaking of Pedos, what was allegedly in Biden's daughter's diary?

no idea. to my knowledge it has not been published.

That Project Veritas claims they could not authenticate that it was real- so it never went anywhere.

Biden using the FBI like his personal KGB to raid them pretty much just proved it was real.

Apparently there is a bit of a he-said-she said thing going on. Biden's daughter claims it was stolen- this project veritas claims it was given to them by a source who claims Biden's daughter left it in a house she was renting and forgot about it when she moved out.

I'm glad it wasn't published to be honest with you- too much bullshit has been going out as "news"- and if they aren't able to authenticate then no business publishing it. And to be honest with you- even if it was authenticated- not sure it's news worthy to publish the private diary of a woman. I mean as far as I know- she's not tied into any clearly obvious shady pay to play business dealings like Hunter- and her diary is of no newsworthy value.

Regardless, this is a truly insane story. Since when the f**k does the FBI investigate a stolen journal case? You claim to have something stolen from you- you call the local police. Not the FBI. This shit is nuts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 09, 2021, 11:56:14 AM

If the FBI was being used by the KGB, I’d be impressed by the bravery of speaking out about it.

In modern times, I think we understate the brutality of secret police.

(I’ve not dug into this raid and cannot speak to of it was bad or how bad it was)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 09, 2021, 11:56:26 AM

Had Trump pulled a stunt like this, there'd be nothing else on TV for a month. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 09, 2021, 11:56:36 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 09, 2021, 11:48:56 AM

Regardless, this is a truly insane story. Since when the f**k does the FBI investigate a stolen journal case? You claim to have something stolen from you- you call the local police. Not the FBI. This shit is nuts.

unless it involves national security

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 09, 2021, 12:03:02 PM

The Left loves a police state, so long as they are the ones that control it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 09, 2021, 12:03:17 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 09, 2021, 10:18:32 AM

Looking forward to congressional investigations into whether Big Bird is a communist

too late for that- we already had one of those- a second McCarthyist Russia Scare! It involved the BAD ORANGE MAN, Russia, and an evidence free based conspiracy theory. 

And that theory was put out to pasture by Mueller's investigation and report and that pathetic bullshit dossier that was the basis for the start of the investigation has been called into serious question with the arrests and indictments of Igor Danchenko and Clinton lawyer Michael Sussmann back to back in the last 3-4 weeks. Mueller put that conspiracy theory to bed- and these indictments literally just obliterated it into a billion pieces.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/11/08/steele-dossier-msnbc-cnn-danchenko-durham/

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/11/igor-danchenko-and-the-crippling-blow-for-the-steele-dossier.html

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/580391-durhams-latest-indictment-more-lines-drawn-to-clintons-campaign

https://mate.substack.com/p/russiagate-has-no-rock-bottom

https://www.wsj.com/articles/lawyer-indicted-in-john-durhams-russia-investigation-11631825767

https://mate.substack.com/p/indicted-clinton-lawyer-hired-crowdstrike

https://mate.substack.com/p/with-clinton-lawyer-charged-the-russiagate

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/rachel-maddows-shocking-new-low

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 09, 2021, 12:05:22 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 09, 2021, 11:56:14 AM

If the FBI was being used by the KGB, I’d be impressed by the bravery of speaking out about it.

In modern times, I think we understate the brutality of secret police.

(I’ve not dug into this raid and cannot speak to of it was bad or how bad it was)

You don't think it's incredibly odd that the FBI raided an online right-wing journalist organization over a diary they never published?

Since when is the FBI involved in trying to locate worthless lost or stolen property?

This SMACKS of a President using the FBI to go after political enemies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 09, 2021, 12:06:39 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 09, 2021, 11:56:36 AM

unless it involves national security

how does a woman's diary involve national security? they had the diary a year ago before Joe Biden was president. Why does the FBI not raid until now? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 09, 2021, 12:16:47 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 09, 2021, 11:56:26 AM

Had Trump pulled a stunt like this, there'd be nothing else on TV for a month.

no doubt about it. if the guy made a mean tweet it was immediately on cable news 24/7 for a week.

it just goes to show how broken the establishment media truly is. he was great for their ratings so they amped everything up to a million and tried to turn him into EVIL BAD ORANGE MAN- THE GREATEST VILLAIN IN HISTORY!

It worked for them- bc they had record ratings. As soon as he was out of office- their ratings have all fallen into the toilet. Literally. I wonder if CNN will even survive. Their ratings are so bad across the board- but especially in the key 18-49 demo. CNN now gets lower views than most of the popular YouTube news tv shows. MSNBC's are better- but not by much. I really do wonder if they'll be able to survive.

I think people have grown tired of the fear porn, the outright lies, fabrications, and misinformation, and the echo chambers where no one can question the narrative, and their flat out ridiculousness and their astounding hypocrisy and smugness- and you see that reflected in their ratings- which are literally in the toilet and on life support.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 09, 2021, 12:21:59 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 09, 2021, 11:41:29 AM

On this day, November 9, 1975, the Edmund Fitzgerald departed from Superior, Wisconsin at 2:15 pm with 26,116 tons of taconite headed for Detroit, Michigan. The Fitzgerald was under the leadership of Captain Ernest M. McSorley. Later that afternoon, the Fitz met the Arthur M. Anderson (Captain Jesse B. Cooper) as it left Two Harbors, Minnesota. Due to the storm headed north, both McSorley and Cooper decided to travel north of the usual shipping lanes, a common practice in poor weather.

Many of them from NE Ohio,one was 6 yrs older and went to my H.S. knew a few guys that I know
BTW FF it was November 10th

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 09, 2021, 12:37:06 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 09, 2021, 11:41:29 AM

On this day, November 9, 1975, the Edmund Fitzgerald departed from Superior, Wisconsin at 2:15 pm with 26,116 tons of taconite headed for Detroit, Michigan. The Fitzgerald was under the leadership of Captain Ernest M. McSorley. Later that afternoon, the Fitz met the Arthur M. Anderson (Captain Jesse B. Cooper) as it left Two Harbors, Minnesota. Due to the storm headed north, both McSorley and Cooper decided to travel north of the usual shipping lanes, a common practice in poor weather.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/254707588_4630504716987810_7275232025334741410_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=AG7ADuoZVfIAX_N6n3G&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=028019a840219e1a98ec5aedf77bf716&oe=61AF9591)

I was only 14- but still remember this so vividly.

the song ( Gordon Lightfoot) still gives me a chill 
If you’ve never seen Lake superior in November, it’s quite harrowing to even look at it when the weather turns bad. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 09, 2021, 12:38:14 PM

speaking of November weather

today is good, last day of golf here

FORE!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 09, 2021, 12:43:07 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 09, 2021, 12:38:14 PM

speaking of November weather

today is good, last day of golf here

FORE!!!

Nice!  

it cooled off nicely here but still beautiful golf weather. Going to honor our veterans on my day off Thursday with some graphite weapons and little white missiles.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 09, 2021, 12:46:53 PM

Playing Sunday.

My last round dropped my official handicap into the teens!

I mean, 19.8 is still in the teens, right? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 09, 2021, 01:36:59 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 09, 2021, 12:46:53 PM

Playing Sunday.

My last round dropped my official handicap into the teens!

I mean, 19.8 is still in the teens, right?

Keep playing.  Your a black belt- so that guarantees that you have a great hand eye coordination.

that is the secret- muscle memory ( repeatable swing) and short game, which is relaxed hand eye coordination.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 09, 2021, 02:12:49 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 09, 2021, 01:36:59 PM

Keep playing.  Your a black belt- so that guarantees that you have a great hand eye coordination.

that is the secret- muscle memory ( repeatable swing) and short game, which is relaxed hand eye coordination. 

Yeah, I think my long game is starting to come into form, because I've practiced it more. Not enough, but more. 

My short game sucks, because the bulk of "practice" I do on short game is playing on the course. 

I've started tracking "wasted shots" on my rounds, i.e. things that I do that are so awful that they basically are just a completely additional stroke. I.e. if I miss a green from 150 yards and I'm 20 yards off, that's not a wasted shot, because I can't exactly expect to hit every green from 150 at my skill level. But if I then go to pitch from 20 yards off and I chunk it 15 feet, that's a wasted shot because I should at least be able to get on the green from 20 yards. Now I am left pitching again from [essentially] the same place.

I've found that my wasted shots are well over 50% in my short game. 

So I need to start practicing that. I could be shooting mid-80s if I clean that up. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 09, 2021, 02:51:57 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 09, 2021, 12:03:17 PM

too late for that- we already had one of those- a second McCarthyist Russia Scare! It involved the BAD ORANGE MAN, Russia, and an evidence free based conspiracy theory.

And that theory was put out to pasture by Mueller's investigation and report and that pathetic bullshit dossier that was the basis for the start of the investigation has been called into serious question with the arrests and indictments of Igor Danchenko and Clinton lawyer Michael Sussmann back to back in the last 3-4 weeks. Mueller put that conspiracy theory to bed- and these indictments literally just obliterated it into a billion pieces.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/11/08/steele-dossier-msnbc-cnn-danchenko-durham/

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/11/igor-danchenko-and-the-crippling-blow-for-the-steele-dossier.html

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/580391-durhams-latest-indictment-more-lines-drawn-to-clintons-campaign

https://mate.substack.com/p/russiagate-has-no-rock-bottom

https://www.wsj.com/articles/lawyer-indicted-in-john-durhams-russia-investigation-11631825767

https://mate.substack.com/p/indicted-clinton-lawyer-hired-crowdstrike

https://mate.substack.com/p/with-clinton-lawyer-charged-the-russiagate

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/rachel-maddows-shocking-new-low

Brother we had 11 investigations about Benghazi and an FBI investigation about what server Hillary kept her emails. That might gave been the stupidest thing I had ever seen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 09, 2021, 03:00:19 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 09, 2021, 02:12:49 PM

Yeah, I think my long game is starting to come into form, because I've practiced it more. Not enough, but more.

My short game sucks, because the bulk of "practice" I do on short game is playing on the course.

I've started tracking "wasted shots" on my rounds, i.e. things that I do that are so awful that they basically are just a completely additional stroke. I.e. if I miss a green from 150 yards and I'm 20 yards off, that's not a wasted shot, because I can't exactly expect to hit every green from 150 at my skill level. But if I then go to pitch from 20 yards off and I chunk it 15 feet, that's a wasted shot because I should at least be able to get on the green from 20 yards. Now I am left pitching again from [essentially] the same place.

I've found that my wasted shots are well over 50% in my short game.

So I need to start practicing that. I could be shooting mid-80s if I clean that up.

That’s how I got from 20 down to a 10 or even nine for a short period.  Short game practice. I found it built the fundamentals to help the long game swings as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 09, 2021, 03:02:06 PM

It took me seventeen years to get three thousand hits in baseball.
I did it in one afternoon on the golf course.
Hank Aaron

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 09, 2021, 03:53:37 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 09, 2021, 02:51:57 PM

Brother we had 11 investigations about Benghazi and an FBI investigation about what server Hillary kept her emails. That might gave been the stupidest thing I had ever seen.

Oh that poor persecuted untouchable witch. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 09, 2021, 03:58:12 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/uxgoz4l.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 09, 2021, 04:05:51 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 09, 2021, 03:58:12 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/uxgoz4l.png)

😂👍

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 09, 2021, 04:12:09 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 09, 2021, 12:05:22 PM

You don't think it's incredibly odd that the FBI raided an online right-wing journalist organization over a diary they never published? 

Since when is the FBI involved in trying to locate worthless lost or stolen property?

This SMACKS of a President using the FBI to go after political enemies.

There’s a typo in there, but if the FBI was being used like the KGB, that guy running it woulda “fallen out a window.”

I’ve not investigated what happened. I assume it’s some blend of not super appropriate, but less dramatic than it’s being portrayed, and maybe even mundane in a depressing way. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 09, 2021, 04:13:12 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 09, 2021, 03:58:12 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/uxgoz4l.png)

Was that on 51? Or just the old board?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 09, 2021, 04:15:58 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 09, 2021, 04:13:12 PM

Was that on 51? Or just the old board?

This entire board was a politics-free zone, ASIDE from the weird Area 51 down at the bottom that I avoid like the plague.

Then people kept on doing it, so we tried to limit it to a few threads-- this one included. 

The only long-standing thread that has ever been actively moderated to remove politics, was the Coronavirus one, but I gave up on that a few days ago.

Now this place is about to become a free-for-all, the aftermath of a failed demilitarized zone, with nothing but craters and dead bodies everywhere.

Be careful what you wish for...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 09, 2021, 04:17:57 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 09, 2021, 04:13:12 PM

Was that on 51? Or just the old board?

Before COVID, politics on this site were restricted only to the wacko Area51 section.

We had some far-reaching discussions on policy, but with the ground rule that it wasn't to be about a specific politician or party. Usually mentioning anyone by name would result in being chastised. It was a very tenuous line, but when crossed it was usually shut down immediately. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 09, 2021, 04:21:06 PM

Covid is a good topic to avoid like the plague.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 09, 2021, 04:44:34 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 09, 2021, 04:15:58 PM

This entire board was a politics-free zone, ASIDE from the weird Area 51 down at the bottom that I avoid like the plague.

Then people kept on doing it, so we tried to limit it to a few threads-- this one included. 

The only long-standing thread that has ever been actively moderated to remove politics, was the Coronavirus one, but I gave up on that a few days ago.

Now this place is about to become a free-for-all, the aftermath of a failed demilitarized zone, with nothing but craters and dead bodies everywhere.

Be careful what you wish for...

I know what I wish for. But I don’t think most others would agree.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 09, 2021, 05:01:42 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 09, 2021, 02:51:57 PM

Brother we had 11 investigations about Benghazi and an FBI investigation about what server Hillary kept her emails. That might gave been the stupidest thing I had ever seen.

Both insane, but I’ve never seen anything like Russiagate. Oh wait- yes I have- the war in Iraq/WMDs. Lol.

Just amazing to me that people did not learn their lesson in not trusting anything coming from establishment media citing unnamed or “intelligence” sources after that travesty in which an illegal invasion was kicked off based on lies and phony evidence and probably over 1 million people lost their lives and millions more were displaced. 

Establishment media might be worse than it’s ever been with all the ex FBI/CIA creeps on the news room payrolls. John Brennan and James Clapper should be in freaking jail. Not getting high paying jobs working at MSNBC and CNN. I still don’t know wtf the bosses at those networks are even fn thinking.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 09, 2021, 05:04:20 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 09, 2021, 04:12:09 PM

There’s a typo in there, but if the FBI was being used like the KGB, that guy running it woulda “fallen out a window.”

I’ve not investigated what happened. I assume it’s some blend of not super appropriate, but less dramatic than it’s being portrayed, and maybe even mundane in a depressing way.

Hyperbole, sure. But in our society a president just can’t kill a citizen because he feels like it. Oh wait, yes he can- Obama & Trump both drone striked US citizens to death.

I admittedly haven’t looked into it super hard yet- but it just strikes me as all kinds of illegal and inappropriate and abuse of the office and of the law.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 09, 2021, 05:53:22 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 09, 2021, 05:01:42 PM

Both insane, but I’ve never seen anything like Russiagate. Oh wait- yes I have- the war in Iraq/WMDs. Lol.

Just amazing to me that people did not learn their lesson in not trusting anything coming from establishment media citing unnamed or “intelligence” sources after that travesty in which an illegal invasion was kicked off based on lies and phony evidence and probably over 1 million people lost their lives and millions more were displaced.

Establishment media might be worse than it’s ever been with all the ex FBI/CIA creeps on the news room payrolls. John Brennan and James Clapper should be in freaking jail. Not getting high paying jobs working at MSNBC and CNN. I still don’t know wtf the bosses at those networks are even fn thinking.

No argument there. In fact, the more I read about the war in Afghanistan, the more I wonder what in the hell we were hoping to accomplish.

I mean...


https://twitter.com/RichardHanania/status/1457755089624469504?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 09, 2021, 06:07:37 PM

Well I know what we were hoping to accomplish.

I just don't believe it was ever realistic.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 09, 2021, 06:52:41 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 09, 2021, 06:07:37 PM

Well I know what we were hoping to accomplish.

I just don't believe it was ever realistic. 

The war in Afghanistan there was at least an initial justification- the Taliban had given safe harbor to Bin Laden and his criminal gang. The US demanded the Taliban hand over Bin Laden or else. Taliban said they would hand him over if the US gov’t would share with them evidence that Bin Laden was behind the 9/11 attacks. W declined any negotiations and said hand him over or else. They did not hand him over, so the US gov’t proceeded to bomb the shit out of them and said hand him over or the bombing will continue. That morphed into change your leadership or the bombing will continue. Which morphed into a full-scale invasion and occupation. And then when they had Bin Laden on the run and in their crosshairs they decided to quit trying to locate him and invade Iraq instead. Makes sense. Not.

My only guesses; US wanting permanent inroads into Afghanistan and have that gov’t be a colony of sorts for US multi-nationals to extract valuable natural resources- as the country of Afghanistan has trillions of dollars worth of untapped natural resources. As far as Iraq goes- my guess here is W had a vendetta against Saddam and wanted to “finish the job” daddy started. Cheney might’ve also figured, hey it’ll be a huge boon for his former friends/cronies at Haliburton (where he was the longtime CEO) to make billions in gov’t contracts. Defense contractors made trillions of dollars off those two wars. Literally.

I suspect the invasion in Iraq was most likely tied to Saddam taking Iraqi oil off the dollar and tethering it to the Euro. Iraq has one of the 3 or 4 largest proven oil reserves, is THE founding member of OPEC, and had long been one of the worlds low cost high volume producers of crude oil. Dumping the dollar for the euro? Can’t have that, can we? Crude oil prices are always quoted in the dollar, which essentially means no matter where you are in the world oil is paid for in US dollars. Which means every country in the world needs US dollars- which let’s the US enjoy a massive advantage over other countries as it’s currency is the defacto reserve currency of the world. Saddam was PISSED at the US and threw out the dollar and had started to trade his oil exclusively in Euros- Iraq was making a killing- it’s oil profits up 17% YOY just based on appreciation of the euro- and like about year and a half later US invaded and his ass was grass.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 09, 2021, 08:53:43 PM

well, all this political crap is great, but not as good as my round of 41-42+83 this afternoon

yes, doubled 18 because ya gotta have a daily double

this on a course that hasn't been mowed or maintained in a couple weeks.  Greens were hard and fuzzy -slow

fairways long, roughs long 

great round for november and probably the last one of the season

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 09, 2021, 09:24:46 PM

Our tough guy outing was a lot of fun.  Comic pins on many of the holes.  The kind where from even 10 feet you're like  -what's a good leave here.   Stretched out it was about 7,280. Weather was a perfect 52, no wind.   Some jokers got to -12 under.   There were some serious sticks.

We played with a team on our hole that had a Ben Crenshaw.   He was freaking drano..  Ramming probably 7 putts longer than 10 feet a few outside of 20.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 09, 2021, 09:33:27 PM

was about 55 this afternoon, no wind, full sun

great weather, but with the cooler temps, take an extra club

bring your beer to the course, clubhouse closed, good beer, good cigars, good time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 09, 2021, 11:18:58 PM

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211110/9757819aab076b15431f8e04f6116267.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 10, 2021, 07:45:52 AM

I'd be fine with losing the politics. As B.R.A.D. mentioned above, we did try a policy thread. But, that went to shit pretty quickly.

I'll nuke this thread if that's what people want. By this point, we all know where we stand. 

I'd rather we get back to cooking, booze and football.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 10, 2021, 07:58:07 AM

You can always take it over to utee's thread that he slapped my name on.It's not quite the Beer Thread but the party's right down the hall.I always wondered what it was like to be a front man for one of these big factions

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 10, 2021, 08:25:57 AM

That's not my thread, that's all you. :)

It has your name on it, because I split off your posts and it started a new thread.

But I think it's fitting.  You like to post some wacky cartoons and memes and stuff, and it's a nice catch-all for that kind of thing.  JMO of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 10, 2021, 09:06:18 AM

So... Can we nuke this thread?

CDawg can start a new "in other news" thread - no politics.

How about no more politics on this board, period?

Policy is fine. Names, party, etc. off limits.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 10, 2021, 09:15:25 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 10, 2021, 08:25:57 AM

That's not my thread, that's all you. :)

It has your name on it, because I split off your posts and it started a new thread.

But I think it's fitting.  You like to post some wacky cartoons and memes and stuff, and it's a nice catch-all for that kind of thing.  JMO of course.

See throwing you're weight around already I'm being repressed

https://youtu.be/ZtYU87QNjPw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 10, 2021, 09:24:34 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 10, 2021, 09:06:18 AM

So... Can we nuke this thread?

CDawg can start a new "in other news" thread - no politics.

How about no more politics on this board, period?

Policy is fine. Names, party, etc. off limits.

I like it...

"In other news [no national news allowed!]" 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 10, 2021, 09:30:45 AM

Amen!   

That political crap is forced down our throats through so many other means during the course of a normal day.

I really would like to have a place to go where that stuff is off-limits.

I need a “ safe space”.  😂😁😁

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 10, 2021, 09:36:25 AM

to my knowledge this is the only political thread here so dont nuke it

course we could only allow conservative posts but thats prob going too far

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 10, 2021, 10:47:41 AM

In the past it was always Fro having carte blanche to spout whatever nonsense he wants, and the only time it got shut down was when someone took his troll bait. 

That was a pretty lousy system. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2021, 10:56:13 AM

rename this thread the "whimsical Political crap" thread

and start another "in other news" thread - w/o politics

enter the political crap thread at your own peril

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2021, 11:04:32 AM

For youse world travelers...........

SITE OF THE DAY:

Entry Advise

In today's busy world, the problem of information overload has only been increasing. This is why we have decided to bring a new approach to travel advisory. We gather all the information you can find on official government website and filter it through our knowledge base, so you won't have to spend hours on gathering pieces of information from various sources.


https://entryadvise.com/ (https://entryadvise.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2021, 11:33:05 AM

https://twitter.com/SportsCenter/status/1457746720100597760?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1457746720100597760%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.espn.com%2F

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 10, 2021, 01:38:45 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 10, 2021, 09:30:45 AM

I need a “ safe space”  HUG 😂😁😁

FIFY 😜

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 10, 2021, 01:44:54 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 10, 2021, 09:30:45 AM

Amen! 

That political crap is forced down our throats through so many other means during the course of a normal day.

I really would like to have a place to go where that stuff is off-limits.

I need a “ safe space”.  😂😁😁

(https://i.imgur.com/SWDTro1.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 10, 2021, 02:21:06 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 10, 2021, 07:45:52 AM

I'd be fine with losing the politics. As B.R.A.D. mentioned above, we did try a policy thread. But, that went to shit pretty quickly.

I'll nuke this thread if that's what people want. By this point, we all know where we stand.

I'd rather we get back to cooking, booze and football.

Nuke! NUKE! 

If I’m gonna argue my way into a dog cussing (probable), let it be over my opinion that a QB was, I dunno, pretty good, I guess, dammit! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 10, 2021, 03:52:14 PM

Do we really need to nuke the thread?

Or can folks just agree not to post political crap?

I mean, if we nuke this thread, but people aren't bought-in to the overall idea of avoiding politics, then it'll just be some OTHER thread that gets spoiled with that BS.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 10, 2021, 03:59:02 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 10, 2021, 03:52:14 PM

Do we really need to nuke the thread?

Or can folks just agree not to post political crap?

I mean, if we nuke this thread, but people aren't bought-in to the overall idea of avoiding politics, then it'll just be some OTHER thread that gets spoiled with that BS.

thats exactly my feeling

need some place to pack the trash so the rest of the house is in order

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 10, 2021, 03:59:51 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 10, 2021, 03:59:02 PM

thats exactly my feeling

need some place to pack the trash so the rest of the house is in order

Just head to the bottom of the site where it says "Area 51".

Full of trash down there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 10, 2021, 04:02:30 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 10, 2021, 03:59:51 PM

Just head to the bottom of the site where it says "Area 51".

Full of trash down there.

not the same

why all of a sudden have you found religion?

do you feel guilty for making me feel so unsafe

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2021, 04:07:29 PM

someone that wants to discuss politics can simply start a thread for that trash

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 10, 2021, 04:14:42 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 10, 2021, 04:07:29 PM

someone that wants to discuss politics can simply start a thread for that trash

that takes all the fun out of it

its much more fun to get into a nonpolitical discussion and right in the middle of it you zing one in there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 10, 2021, 04:22:10 PM

I just wish that there a way to block all the homoerotic PMs that I get from Fro. 

Gittin' a little creepy... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 10, 2021, 04:24:05 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 10, 2021, 04:22:10 PM

I just wish that there a way to block all the homoerotic PMs that I get from Fro.

Gittin' a little creepy...

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 10, 2021, 04:38:27 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 10, 2021, 04:02:30 PM

not the same

why all of a sudden have you found religion?

do you feel guilty for making me feel so unsafe

I realize I've participated in the politics. Not going to deny it.

Still never thought those arguments improved the culture of this group though. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 10, 2021, 04:57:51 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 10, 2021, 04:38:27 PM

I realize I've participated in the politics. Not going to deny it.

Still never thought those arguments improved the culture of this group though.

I didnt realize that was the goal

you need to realize Im hopeless

save yourself its too late for me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 10, 2021, 05:39:49 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 10, 2021, 04:14:42 PM

that takes all the fun out of it

its much more fun to get into a nonpolitical discussion and right in the middle of it you zing one in there

This is the exact problem we have. People just can't help themselves.  Sometimes y'all act like a bunch of 8 year olds.

I was gonna say 12 year olds but my son is way more mature than you lot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 10, 2021, 06:42:26 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 10, 2021, 05:39:49 PM

This is the exact problem we have. People just can't help themselves.  Sometimes y'all act like a bunch of 8 year olds.

I was gonna say 12 year olds but my son is way more mature than you lot.

this place is getting more and more like this every day 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2yLE6eaxwI

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 10, 2021, 06:52:58 PM

Yeah, you're really oppressed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 10, 2021, 06:58:39 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 10, 2021, 06:52:58 PM

Yeah, you're really oppressed.

all Im asking for is a safe place

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 10, 2021, 08:05:08 PM

2 hrs into a 4:15 hr meeting that isn't supposed to finish until 7:15 PM, and already hearing "we're running a little behind". 

SMH...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 10, 2021, 08:07:39 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 10, 2021, 08:05:08 PM

2 hrs into a 4:15 hr meeting that isn't supposed to finish until 7:15 PM, and already hearing "we're running a little behind".

SMH...

A four hour and 15 minute meeting is outlawed by the Geneva Convention I'm pretty sure. You should bring that up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 10, 2021, 08:14:19 PM

I dont do meetings anymore

glad those days are over

long meetings is why the smart phone was invented

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 10, 2021, 08:15:23 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 10, 2021, 08:05:08 PM

2 hrs into a 4:15 hr meeting that isn't supposed to finish until 7:15 PM, and already hearing "we're running a little behind".

SMH...

Isn't that sort of thing strictly banned under the 8th Amendment? Cruel and unusual punishment...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 10, 2021, 08:22:39 PM

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FDeIH5FWEAM1ypq?format=jpg&name=large)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 10, 2021, 08:26:26 PM

this one killed me...


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FDimirDXMAM8V82?format=jpg&name=large)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 10, 2021, 09:01:46 PM

this is fascinating....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufy2AweXRkc

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 10, 2021, 09:52:20 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 10, 2021, 09:01:46 PM

this is fascinating....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufy2AweXRkc

It is interesting, though the problem is not theoretical. The vaccine fools the body's immune system into producing defenses against COVID. Ivermectin may block viral production, but the problem is the concentration needed to do that in your blood would probably kill you. That's why clinical studies on Ivermectin haven't shown much benefit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2021, 10:49:52 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 10, 2021, 06:58:39 PM

all Im asking for is a safe place

there's always the PAC12 thread


Last post by Brutus Buckeye
in Re: Pac-12 moving title ...
on March 26, 2021,

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 10, 2021, 10:54:41 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 10, 2021, 09:52:20 PM

It is interesting, though the problem is not theoretical. The vaccine fools the body's immune system into producing defenses against COVID. Ivermectin may block viral production, but the problem is the concentration needed to do that in your blood would probably kill you. That's why clinical studies on Ivermectin haven't shown much benefit.

That is just not accurate.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8248252/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33278625/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2021, 10:59:05 PM

We may think of science as our foremost producer of knowledge, but for the past decade, science has also been studied as an important source of ignorance. The historian of science Robert Proctor has coined the term agnotology to refer to the study of ignorance, and much of the ignorance studied in this new area is produced by science. Whether an active or passive construct, intended or unintended, this ignorance is, in Proctor’s words, “made, maintained, and manipulated” by science.

This article is excerpted from the book “Science and the Production of Ignorance: When the Quest for Knowledge Is Thwarted.”
In the conversation that follows, excerpted from a longer discussion published in the volume “Science and the Production of Ignorance,” Proctor and historian and philosopher of science Peter Galison describe some of the most important strategies used by industry over the years to produce this ignorance. Some of the well-documented tactics used by the tobacco industry, for example, included funding decoy research to distract from critical questions; organizing “friendly research” for publication in popular magazines; establishing scientific front organizations; and forever calling for more research and more evidence, setting standards for proof so high that nothing could ever satisfy them.

“It’s really quite brilliant,” says Proctor. “If you don’t like the science that’s out there, create some of your own. And then claim ‘we need more research.’ And then label your opposition as a bunch of close-minded fanatics.” The Proctor-Galison dialogue provides a historical context for today’s explorations of agnotology and makes abundantly clear why the rest of us need to be as concerned as they are with such ignorance and the new area of its investigation.


https://thereader.mitpress.mit.edu/industry-weaponizing-science-agenda/ (https://thereader.mitpress.mit.edu/industry-weaponizing-science-agenda/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2021, 11:08:04 PM

Kormendy began his paper cautiously, recognizing that his emphasis on applying quantitative metrics to human-resource evaluation would be viewed with skepticism by those who claim that such metrics embed systemic biases, and that their use presents obstacles to inclusion. Notwithstanding such anticipated concerns, he argued that

we have to judge the impact that [a] candidate’s research has had or may yet have on the history of his or her subject. Then metrics such as counts of papers published and citations of those papers are often used. But we are uncertain enough about what these metrics measure so that arguments about their interpretation are common. Confidence is low. This can persuade institutions to abandon reliance on metrics. [But] we would never dare to do scientific research with the lack of rigor that is common in career-related decisions. As scientists, we should aim to do better.”
He makes it clear up front that quantitative metrics cannot tell us everything we need to know about a candidate. In the “Significance Statement” provided on the first page, he states

This paper develops machinery to make quantitative predictions of future scientific impact from metrics measured immediately after the ramp-up period that follows the PhD. The aim is to resolve some of the uncertainty in using metrics for one aspect only of career decisions—judging scientific impact. Of course, those decisions should be made more holistically, taking into account additional factors that this paper does not measure (my emphasis).
The bulk of the paper focuses on three out of 10 metrics—citations of refereed papers, citations normalized by numbers of coauthors, and first-author citations—which Kormendy attempts to develop into a prediction machine, correlating the metrics evaluated over the early part of a researcher’s career with their later “impact.”


https://quillette.com/2021/11/10/an-astronomer-cancels-his-own-research-because-the-results-werent-popular/amp/ (https://quillette.com/2021/11/10/an-astronomer-cancels-his-own-research-because-the-results-werent-popular/amp/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 10, 2021, 11:58:28 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 10, 2021, 09:52:20 PM

It is interesting, though the problem is not theoretical. The vaccine fools the body's immune system into producing defenses against COVID. Ivermectin may block viral production, but the problem is the concentration needed to do that in your blood would probably kill you. That's why clinical studies on Ivermectin haven't shown much benefit.

The fact of the matter is the cold hard truth is that these covid vaccines are essentially worthless, as they are imperfect "leaky" vaccines which DO NOT stop transmission of this virus dead in its tracks like the vaccines we have for say polio or smallpox.

As this article shows, studies in UK point blank show that fully vaccinated people are just as likely to spread the delta variant to contacts in their household as those who haven’t been vaccinated. 
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-28/getting-vaccinated-doesn-t-stop-people-from-spreading-delta

This is not a pandemic. This shit is endemic. EVERYONE will get it. Period. Vaccinated or not. There is no running or hiding from it. There is only living with it and managing it. The vaccine will point blank, period, not stop transmission, regardless of if everyone is vaccinated or not. In fact- over-use of the vaccine could even put so much evolutionary pressure on the pathogen that it causes a nasty mutation which leads to a new "hot-dose" strain that is more deadly and more lethal.

If you actually watched the video I linked, he explains how the vaccine only has one trick in fooling this virus- which means it is probable the virus could "immune escape" and evolve to beat the vaccine- which is what we might be seeing before our eyes with Delta and all these breakthrough cases and waning effectiveness- whereas the ivermectin has 6 different tricks/disruptions in fooling/stopping replication- which means it's virtually impossible for this virus to mutate 6 different ways to beat the drug. 

Prophylactics and therapies are the way forward with this crap, not forcing people to get vaccines that simply put just do not work.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 11, 2021, 07:07:46 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 10, 2021, 10:54:41 PM

That is just not accurate.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8248252/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33278625/

It is accurate.


https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/ivermectin-is-the-new-hydroxychloroquine-take-6-incompetence-and-fraud-everywhere/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 11, 2021, 07:15:20 AM

Quote

The fact of the matter is the cold hard truth is that these covid vaccines are essentially worthless, as they are imperfect "leaky" vaccines which DO NOT stop transmission of this virus dead in its tracks like the vaccines we have for say polio or smallpox.

But, again, the vaccine isn't solely designed to stop the virus "dead in its tracks." It is designed to stimulate your body to recognize the virus and stop it in its tracks. This it clearly does, both in preventing illness at all and in preventing serious illness. Contracting covid has similar benefits, but the advantage of the vaccine is you don't have to get sick first. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 11, 2021, 07:18:23 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 11, 2021, 07:07:46 AM

It is accurate.


https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/ivermectin-is-the-new-hydroxychloroquine-take-6-incompetence-and-fraud-everywhere/

Well I’m not going to argue with you. You posted some opinions and I posted the actual scientific studies.

As long as people who wanted can get it from their doctor, which they are and they can, and are benefiting from it and they’re real life opinions, what me and you think doesn’t really matter much

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 11, 2021, 07:29:09 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 11, 2021, 07:18:23 AM

Well I’m not going to argue with you. You posted some opinions and I posted the actual scientific studies.

As long as people who wanted can get it from their doctor, which they are and they can, and are benefiting from it and they’re real life opinions, what me and you think doesn’t really matter much

Yes, I posted opinions about the data from doctors, who point out, with a lot of evidence, that there is no real benefit from ivermectin and the scant evidence that may show it has a benefit is very likely made up. In any event, we have been studying antiviral medications for decades, with pretty limited success. It would have been pretty amazing that a random ant-parasite medication would magically stop viral infections. But it doesn't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 11, 2021, 07:40:58 AM

Whatever you say 😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 11, 2021, 08:49:46 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 11, 2021, 07:15:20 AM

But, again, the vaccine isn't solely designed to stop the virus "dead in its tracks." It is designed to stimulate your body to recognize the virus and stop it in its tracks. This it clearly does, both in preventing illness at all and in preventing serious illness. Contracting covid has similar benefits, but the advantage of the vaccine is you don't have to get sick first.

Actually, that's what vaccines are designed for- to immunize you from infection from a pathogen which in turn stops the spread of said pathogen. This thing does not do that- which is why the CDC all of a sudden changed it's official definitions in late 2020 of what vaccines and vaccinations are.

What happened to that whole "get the vax, stop the spread" campaign? So what, now it's morphed into- get the vax to manage symptoms? Lol. What? Manage symptoms for a virus that if you contract it- you're chances of developing serious illness and going to the hospital are...wait for it.... .89%. Point. Eight. Nine. Percent.

And contracting covid and recovering actually gives you a better, stronger, longer lasting natural immunity than this vaccine could ever hope to achieve- per all the science.

You need to wake up. A lot of this bs is simply put just a money grab by special interests. The CDC has taken hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars in "donations" from Pfizer, Merck, J&J, etc. through it's CDC Foundation since it was founded in 1995 by Congress. Nearly 50% of the FDA's total budget comes from the private corporations they are suppose to be regulating. Corporations literally have massive influence if not flat out control of the government agencies that are suppose to be regulating them. It's called regulatory capture. Look it up.

Pretty simple thought exercise- if these vaccines ACTUALLY worked effectively and the good, noble mega-billion dollar corporations like Pfizer/Moderna/J&J were only concerned about saving lives- then why aren't all of them giving it away to the poor all over the world for free? Oh yeah, they aren't. LOL. They are ALL blocking the release/licensing to poor nations in Africa, Asia, & all over the world.

Forcing everyone to take these experimental vaccines by force in the US benefits only the multi-national billion dollar corporations that produce them and in turn the puppet politicians and regulatory bodies they have bought and paid for and now own.

If you want the vaccine, great. Go get it. It will reduce your odds of getting serious illness and needing to be hospitalized from .89 percent to .18 percent. So I say- that's cool- go get it if you want to feel protected, but don't force it on anyone through government action. That is not who or what we are. This is suppose to be a free country. FREE.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 11, 2021, 09:19:04 AM

why not get vaccinated and you are even more protected then relying on natural immunity that an unvaccinated person acquires if they get the virus

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 11, 2021, 09:19:29 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 11, 2021, 08:49:46 AM

Actually, that's what vaccines are designed for- to immunize you from infection from a pathogen which in turn stops the spread of said pathogen. This thing does not do that- which is why the CDC all of a sudden changed it's official definitions in late 2020 of what vaccines and vaccinations are.

What happened to that whole "get the vax, stop the spread" campaign? So what, now it's morphed into- get the vax to manage symptoms? Lol. What? Manage symptoms for a virus that if you contract it- you're chances of developing serious illness and going to the hospital are...wait for it.... .89%. Point. Eight. Nine. Percent.

And contracting covid and recovering actually gives you a better, stronger, longer lasting natural immunity than this vaccine could ever hope to achieve- per all the science.

You need to wake up. A lot of this bs is simply put just a money grab by special interests. The CDC has taken hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars in "donations" from Pfizer, Merck, J&J, etc. through it's CDC Foundation since it was founded in 1995 by Congress. Nearly 50% of the FDA's total budget comes from the private corporations they are suppose to be regulating. Corporations literally have massive influence if not flat out control of the government agencies that are suppose to be regulating them. It's called regulatory capture. Look it up.

Pretty simple thought exercise- if these vaccines ACTUALLY worked effectively and the good, noble mega-billion dollar corporations like Pfizer/Moderna/J&J were only concerned about saving lives- then why aren't all of them giving it away to the poor all over the world for free? Oh yeah, they aren't. LOL. They are ALL blocking the release/licensing to poor nations in Africa, Asia, & all over the world.

Forcing everyone to take these experimental vaccines by force in the US benefits only the multi-national billion dollar corporations that produce them and in turn the puppet politicians and regulatory bodies they have bought and paid for and now own.

If you want the vaccine, great. Go get it. It will reduce your odds of getting serious illness and needing to be hospitalized from .89 percent to .18 percent. So I say- that's cool- go get it if you want to feel protected, but don't force it on anyone through government action. That is not who or what we are. This is suppose to be a free country. FREE.

I agree with everything you said here, except that the chances of having to be hospitalized from Covid are nowhere near 89%. I don't have the number readily available (and am to lazy to look it up), but the hospitalization rate for those that have contracted Covid is most likely well under 10% if not a lot closer to 1%. 


EDIT: I just reread your post. You said .89% not 89%. My bad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 11, 2021, 09:21:08 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 11, 2021, 09:19:04 AM

why not get vaccinated and you are even more protected then relying on natural immunity that an unvaccinated person acquires if they get the virus

I have read some theory's that the vaccine will hamper natural immunity. If I get a chance, I will try to find those articles and post them here. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 11, 2021, 09:43:05 AM

*theories

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 11, 2021, 09:45:43 AM

Haven't had a long enough trial run to call it anything else.Truth be told you & I don't know that either

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 11, 2021, 09:52:32 AM

It typically takes 7-10 years to get a vaccine to market. They got this one out in a matter of months. That frightens me a little bit. And forcing it on children- who are virtually immune from serious illness and death from covid- makes zero sense to me. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 11, 2021, 09:56:55 AM

Is it being forced on children?

I mean, I know it isn't in my own region, but it's possible this is happening elsewhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2021, 09:59:18 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 11, 2021, 09:19:04 AM

why not get vaccinated and you are even more protected then relying on natural immunity that an unvaccinated person acquires if they get the virus

B cause

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 11, 2021, 10:08:30 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 11, 2021, 09:56:55 AM

Is it being forced on children?

I mean, I know it isn't in my own region, but it's possible this is happening elsewhere.

Not yet- but that does not mean they will not try. The fear porn is already being ramped up in the media. 

NY Times & MSNBC got caught grossly lying and exaggerating the numbers of children dead/hospitalized from COVID. NY Times wrote something like 970,000 children died/hospitalized from COVID. It was so bad- Yahoo news called them out on it and NY Times had to make a retraction. MSNBC had some moron doctor who turns out has been funded by Pfizer- say that 146,000 children in US have died from COVID. The actual figure is like less than 700. 100% of which were unhealthy children that had pre-existing conditions.

They lie at behest of Pfizer, J&J, and other drug companies because those drug companies are massive advertisers/sponsors to their networks. The top 10 pharmaceutical companies spend something like $7 BILLION a year advertising in print & tv media- with nearly 75% going to TV networks. Money infects and ruins everything.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=210bHotqzFM

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 11, 2021, 10:10:23 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 10, 2021, 10:59:05 PM

We may think of science as our foremost producer of knowledge, but for the past decade, science has also been studied as an important source of ignorance. The historian of science Robert Proctor has coined the term agnotology to refer to the study of ignorance, and much of the ignorance studied in this new area is produced by science. Whether an active or passive construct, intended or unintended, this ignorance is, in Proctor’s words, “made, maintained, and manipulated” by science.

This article is excerpted from the book “Science and the Production of Ignorance: When the Quest for Knowledge Is Thwarted.”
In the conversation that follows, excerpted from a longer discussion published in the volume “Science and the Production of Ignorance,” Proctor and historian and philosopher of science Peter Galison describe some of the most important strategies used by industry over the years to produce this ignorance. Some of the well-documented tactics used by the tobacco industry, for example, included funding decoy research to distract from critical questions; organizing “friendly research” for publication in popular magazines; establishing scientific front organizations; and forever calling for more research and more evidence, setting standards for proof so high that nothing could ever satisfy them.

“It’s really quite brilliant,” says Proctor. “If you don’t like the science that’s out there, create some of your own. And then claim ‘we need more research.’ And then label your opposition as a bunch of close-minded fanatics.” The Proctor-Galison dialogue provides a historical context for today’s explorations of agnotology and makes abundantly clear why the rest of us need to be as concerned as they are with such ignorance and the new area of its investigation.


https://thereader.mitpress.mit.edu/industry-weaponizing-science-agenda/ (https://thereader.mitpress.mit.edu/industry-weaponizing-science-agenda/)

Thanks FF... That was an excellent read. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 11, 2021, 10:11:51 AM

so we are supposed to not get vaccinated and just catch the virus

I dont think so

but thanks for playing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 11, 2021, 10:12:12 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 11, 2021, 10:10:23 AM

Thanks FF... That was an excellent read.

Money/profit motive corrupts everything. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 11, 2021, 10:16:38 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 11, 2021, 10:11:51 AM

so we are supposed to not get vaccinated and just catch the virus

I dont think so

but thanks for playing

Well at this point, you should make a personal decision and if you want to get vaccinated, do so.

I don't agree with everything MDOT is saying, but I do agree that we're past the point of focusing on urging the masses to get the vaccine to reach some unattainable "herd immunity" goal versus an endemic virus.  It'll never happen so people need to stop thinking in those terms.

At this point, get the vaccine to protect yourself from the worst symptoms, should you catch it.  That's the choice I've made for myself, and my family.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 11, 2021, 10:16:50 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 11, 2021, 10:11:51 AM

so we are supposed to not get vaccinated and just catch the virus

I dont think so

but thanks for playing

Not saying that. The vaccines are readily available- if people want them- they are free to go and get them. God bless. And everyone that has wanted one- has gotten one. 

Forcing them through mandates or law- not with that- at all. Especially not when it comes to children- who are of virtually no risk for serious illness from COVID. 

You will catch the virus regardless of whether you are vaccinated or not. Period. EVERYONE will. There is no getting around that. The vaccines will not stop transmission. Best they can do is increase your chances of not developing serious illness. And if they will not stop transmission- doesn’t really make sense to force them on people who don’t want them.

This is an endemic virus that will be with us forever- like the flu- which the average person catches roughly twice every 10 years or so. This will be just like that- and you can take all the vaccines and boosters you want- everyone will eventually get infected with this virus- regardless of vaccination status.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 11, 2021, 10:21:23 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 10, 2021, 11:58:28 PM

The fact of the matter is the cold hard truth is that these covid vaccines are essentially worthless, as they are imperfect "leaky" vaccines which DO NOT stop transmission of this virus dead in its tracks like the vaccines we have for say polio or smallpox.

Except that the commonly used polio vaccine in the US, the one we most likely all received in this country, also does not stop transmission...

https://www.cdc.gov/cpr/polioviruscontainment/diseaseandvirus.htm

Quote

Inactivated poliovirus vaccine

Inactivated poliovirus vaccine (IPV) protects people against all three types of poliovirus. IPV does not contain live virus, so people who receive this vaccine do not shed the virus and cannot infect others, and the vaccine cannot cause disease. IPV does not stop transmission of the virus.  OPV is used wherever a polio outbreak needs to be contained, even in countries which rely exclusively on IPV for their routine immunization program. Once polio has been eradicated, use of all OPV will need to be stopped to prevent re-establishment of transmission due to VDPVs.

The mRNA vaccines are used for COVID because trying to use a live virus vaccine would be incredibly difficult to make safe and get through testing. I.e. you need to make sure that by giving someone a live or attenuated virus, that you don't cause too many of them to have symptomatic COVID and be hospitalized or die. And the live virus vaccines can actually cause you to shed the virus itself, and CAUSE you to spread the virus. 

The mRNA vaccines don't do that. It's impossible to catch COVID from the vaccine, because it's merely causing your body to produce the spike protein for your immune system to recognize. It's impossible to spread COVID from the vaccine, because the vaccine doesn't contain COVID. 

But it is possible to still catch COVID. Your body has learned immunity to protect you, as the vaccine recipient, from harm, just like the inactivated polio vaccine. So your threat of severe illness or death is much lower. But as it's still possible to be infected, it is still possible to transmit the virus, just like polio.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 11, 2021, 10:22:53 AM

The Covid thread has infected this thread with Covid. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 11, 2021, 10:24:32 AM

Ha.  True.

I didn't kill the COVID thread, I just stopped moderating it.  It's still available for discussion.

So far, THIS discussion has been mostly reasonable and thoughtful, even among people with very different viewpoints.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 11, 2021, 10:42:55 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 11, 2021, 10:24:32 AM

Ha.  True.

I didn't kill the COVID thread, I just stopped moderating it.  It's still available for discussion.

So far, THIS discussion has been mostly reasonable and thoughtful, even among people with very different viewpoints. 

well somebody did cause you cant post to it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2021, 10:43:50 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 11, 2021, 10:10:23 AM

Thanks FF... That was an excellent read.

as Mdot21 says, "Money infects and ruins everything."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 11, 2021, 10:49:27 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 11, 2021, 10:42:55 AM

well somebody did cause you cant post to it

Ah okay.  I guess badgerfan really did lock it up.  

I suppose this thread is as good as any, then.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2021, 10:53:11 AM

I think the vax is another tool to realize the very important goal very early on of ensuring that hospitals and morgues are not over run by the virus.

mandates by employers and the government???

That's for the courts to decide

easy decision for me - getting the vax is just easier than fighting government or my employer

yes, the government and my employers have been forcing me to do things I didn't care for my entire adult life.

gotta pick your battles

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 11, 2021, 11:09:13 AM

So now this thread is going to be all Covid all the time, with nothing but misguided pompous bloviations from folks outside of the medical community? 

(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/400x/85025850.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 11, 2021, 11:11:27 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 11, 2021, 10:43:50 AM

as Mdot21 says, "Money infects and ruins everything."

What's most interesting is how much good science came out of it. As the interview highlighted, 10 Nobel prizewinners were funded by tobacco companies.

They were largely working on other things and much of that work effectively distracted from the link between cigarettes and cancer, but that doesn't make it bad science. For example the links between stress and cholesterol on heart disease may not have been aggressively studied if they weren't looking for things *other* than cigarettes causing heart disease. Now that we're in a society where smoking rates are so much lower than they were ~40 years ago, knowing those things can be used to make us healthier in the absence of a smoking-dominated society. 

So while I think it's important to recognize what's going on, who's funding it, and WHY, and to call them on the carpet as a result... I don't think that the actual science that was produced is a problem. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 11, 2021, 11:13:51 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 11, 2021, 11:09:13 AM

So now this thread is going to be all Covid all the time, with nothing but misguided pompous bloviations from folks outside of the medical community?

(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/400x/85025850.jpg)

You make a good point.  Some people really DON'T want to talk about COVID.  

I've revived the COVID thread, let's try and keep the discussion there, so that folks who don't want to talk about it, won't be forced to read through it on other threads.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 11, 2021, 11:14:31 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 11, 2021, 10:53:11 AM

I think the vax is another tool to realize the very important goal very early on of ensuring that hospitals and morgues are not over run by the virus.

mandates by employers and the government???

That's for the courts to decide

easy decision for me - getting the vax is just easier than fighting government or my employer

yes, the government and my employers have been forcing me to do things I didn't care for my entire adult life.

gotta pick your battles

Mandates are one thing. My position on anything is that I'm not going to disobey a mandate wanting me to do something smart JUST BECAUSE it's a mandate. It takes a certain level of stubbornness to defy a mandate at cost to oneself. (Note: I'm not saying that people who don't want the vaccine aren't smart--I disagree with them but it's their own decision to make for themselves.)

I chose to get the vax because I believe it was the right decision for me. I would have done that without a mandate, and I wouldn't refuse to do it just because there's a mandate. 

My daughter (age 9) got her first jab last Saturday, so a few more weeks and my entire family will be vaxxed. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2021, 11:35:43 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 11, 2021, 11:14:31 AM

Mandates are one thing. My position on anything is that I'm not going to disobey a mandate wanting me to do something smart JUST BECAUSE it's a mandate. It takes a certain level of stubbornness to defy a mandate at cost to oneself. (Note: I'm not saying that people who don't want the vaccine aren't smart--I disagree with them but it's their own decision to make for themselves.)

I chose to get the vax because I believe it was the right decision for me. I would have done that without a mandate, and I wouldn't refuse to do it just because there's a mandate.

My daughter (age 9) got her first jab last Saturday, so a few more weeks and my entire family will be vaxxed.

my stance ed zachery

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 11, 2021, 11:37:29 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 11, 2021, 11:35:43 AM

my stance ed zachery

Take it to the corona thread!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 11, 2021, 11:37:33 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 11, 2021, 11:14:31 AM

Mandates are one thing. My position on anything is that I'm not going to disobey a mandate wanting me to do something smart JUST BECAUSE it's a mandate. It takes a certain level of stubbornness to defy a mandate at cost to oneself. (Note: I'm not saying that people who don't want the vaccine aren't smart--I disagree with them but it's their own decision to make for themselves.)

I chose to get the vax because I believe it was the right decision for me. I would have done that without a mandate, and I wouldn't refuse to do it just because there's a mandate.

My daughter (age 9) got her first jab last Saturday, so a few more weeks and my entire family will be vaxxed.

I am not anti-vaccines. I am anti-mandates. I do not believe the government should be able to force people to do anything with their own bodies. I think most drugs should be legal, the war on drugs are stupid. If heroin was legal- I wouldn’t run to the store and do it tomorrow. I don’t think most people would. And believe it or not I also think woman should have the right to choose when it comes to abortion. Government does not belong in peoples personal/private lives, period. As far as I’m concerned. I was for gay marriage as well- way before it was passed into law. If two consenting adults want to get married- why does it matter what sex they are and why is the government involved at all?

IF they were able to prove these vaccines were effective at stopping the spread dead in it’s tracks and eradicating the disease- then I might be on board for vaccine mandates. But if that had been the case- I believe you’d have seen people line up to get it- there wouldn’t be need for mandates. Study after study in highly vaccinated countries are showing the vaccines do not prevent infection or stop the spread effectively. At best they can slow it down a bit and help prevent severe symptoms. But there are therapeutics out now and more coming to market that can basically defeat the virus if you take at first sign of symptom- so again- is there a need for a vaccine that doesn’t stop transmission but can help limit severe symptoms when you have therapeutics now that can basically kick the viruses ass in 2-3 days if taken at first sign of symptoms? Not really sure.

I got the vax, having said that I do not have children, and if I had children I do not think I would give them it. I don’t see the benefits for them- as the risks for children being seriously ill or dying from COVID is virtually non-existent- and I see more potential risks giving them an experimental vaccine that was rushed to market- and to be frank we really don’t know the long term side effects it can cause in children and the FDA has admitted as such. And there has been high cases of myocarditis caused by the moderna vaccine in young boys. So much so that many countries have been banning the moderna vax for young boys. 

I honestly believe that it aught to be up to the people and the parents of children to decide what they do or don’t put in their bodies and their children bodies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2021, 11:37:42 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 11, 2021, 11:11:27 AM

So while I think it's important to recognize what's going on, who's funding it, and WHY, and to call them on the carpet as a result... I don't think that the actual science that was produced is a problem.

correct, science leads to knowledge
Knowledge is good

hopefully, good knowledge isn't being suppressed 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 11, 2021, 11:43:33 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 11, 2021, 11:11:27 AM

What's most interesting is how much good science came out of it. As the interview highlighted, 10 Nobel prizewinners were funded by tobacco companies.

They were largely working on other things and much of that work effectively distracted from the link between cigarettes and cancer, but that doesn't make it bad science. For example the links between stress and cholesterol on heart disease may not have been aggressively studied if they weren't looking for things *other* than cigarettes causing heart disease. Now that we're in a society where smoking rates are so much lower than they were ~40 years ago, knowing those things can be used to make us healthier in the absence of a smoking-dominated society.

So while I think it's important to recognize what's going on, who's funding it, and WHY, and to call them on the carpet as a result... I don't think that the actual science that was produced is a problem.

That’s the great thing about science. Lots of stuff is discovered on accident. 

We have to be willing to admit that we don’t know what we don’t know. New discoveries are constantly being discovered which call into question the previously held knowledge or facts of the day.

Science is about discovery, being able to question everything- it’s constantly evolving. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2021, 12:20:36 PM

unfortunately, many scientific opinions are stated as fact

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 11, 2021, 12:41:36 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 11, 2021, 12:20:36 PM

unfortunately, many scientific opinions are stated as fact

Usually by people who don't even understand the scientific opinions in the first place...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2021, 01:39:14 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 10, 2021, 07:45:52 AM

I'd be fine with losing the politics. As B.R.A.D. mentioned above, we did try a policy thread. But, that went to shit pretty quickly.

I'll nuke this thread if that's what people want. By this point, we all know where we stand.

I'd rather we get back to cooking, booze and football.

What is tiger meat? Why raw beef became a South Dakota food favorite

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2019/07/19/PSIF/cb10aef8-ae6d-4db4-9119-371ceb13efff-SD_Foods_005.JPG?width=660&height=436&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp)



Tiger meat: Raw hamburger seasoned and cured, eaten like a dip with crackers. Commonly referred to as "South Dakota steak tartare."

The name's a bit misleading, but tiger meat isn't made with tiger. It's just ground beef ... raw.

Tiger meat is similar to steak tartare, which originated among Germans and Russians. The dish made its way to America by German and Russian immigrants and passed down through generations.

The dish can be found in states with larger German-Russian histories, including Minnesota (where it's commonly called cannibal burger), North Dakota, Kansas (raw burger or wildcat) and Texas (called parisa around the San Antonio area). While it's restricted to those small German-Russian communities and families in other states, tiger meat is known statewide in South Dakota and claimed as a South Dakota food by many.


https://www.argusleader.com/story/life/2019/08/22/what-tiger-meat-origin-south-dakota-food-favorite-raw-beef-tartare/2054004001/ (https://www.argusleader.com/story/life/2019/08/22/what-tiger-meat-origin-south-dakota-food-favorite-raw-beef-tartare/2054004001/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 11, 2021, 01:42:42 PM

Yup I dig parisa, so I'd be down with Tiger meat.  I also enjoy steak tartare, and carpaccio.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 11, 2021, 02:27:55 PM

meat is cooked for a reason and its not just to make it tender

I think I'll stick to it being cooked

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2021, 02:41:28 PM

yup, no sense in trying something that others enjoy

stay in your box ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 11, 2021, 02:48:46 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 11, 2021, 02:41:28 PM

yup, no sense in trying something that others enjoy

stay in your box ;)

I’ll try almost anything once.

I even tried horse in Sicily and spleen sandwiches as well. Not a fan of either, but hey I gave it a shot. 

Life is about trying new things. Sometimes you find something you like on accident. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2021, 02:57:18 PM

spleen sandwiches don't sound great but I'd give 'em a try

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 11, 2021, 04:23:45 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 11, 2021, 11:43:33 AM

We have to be willing to admit that we don’t know what we don’t know. 

Religion refuses to do this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 11, 2021, 04:26:18 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 11, 2021, 12:41:36 PM

Usually by people who don't even understand the scientific opinions in the first place...

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS

Science NEVER claims to state truths, just reports on the current likelihood based on the available evidence.  Emphasis on CURRENT, LIKELIHOOD, and AVAILABLE.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 11, 2021, 04:42:23 PM

The 20-odd "natural laws" in science are accepted as "Truth".  There has to be some kind of bedrock, and things like F = ma are not questioned.

The problem is when journalists start paraphrasing scientists and confusing science with speculation.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 11, 2021, 05:03:31 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 11, 2021, 11:37:29 AM

Take it to the corona thread!

This was posted before noon, but it’s 5 o’clock somewhere

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 11, 2021, 05:09:16 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 11, 2021, 04:23:45 PM

Religion refuses to do this.

Most of humanity refuses to do this. 

The initial chapter to Penn Jillette's book on religion [and on his atheism] highlights that three of the most important words in the English language, and three that are REALLY phenomenally difficult for most people to say, are "I don't know."

People treat it as an acknowledgement of failure to respond to a question with "I don't know", so they respond with what they think they know, which so often just ain't so. 

That is a trait of humanity, not of religion -- albeit part of humanity from an early stage was to ascribe that which we don't know to the supernatural, i.e. religion. 

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 11, 2021, 04:26:18 PM

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS

Science NEVER claims to state truths, just reports on the current likelihood based on the available evidence.  Emphasis on CURRENT, LIKELIHOOD, and AVAILABLE. 

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 11, 2021, 04:42:23 PM

The problem is when journalists start paraphrasing scientists and confusing science with speculation. 

Yes. The issue is not with the science, it's that people who don't understand the nuance want to treat everything in a world of white and black, and so they use simple [and wrong] shorthand for "the science". 

When you hear a scientist, or an engineer, or a doctor, or many other professions give an opinion on something in their field of expertise, usually anything they say is going to be very carefully phrased to identify the limits of that opinion, and often with a given confidence level. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 11, 2021, 05:10:27 PM

F = ma, I'll assert that as Truth.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2021, 05:15:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 11, 2021, 04:42:23 PM

The 20-odd "natural laws" in science are accepted as "Truth".  There has to be some kind of bedrock, and things like F = ma are not questioned.

The problem is when journalists start paraphrasing scientists and confusing science with speculation. 

well, not all scientists are innocent 

some of them have been less than genuine because of exterior motives - usually money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 11, 2021, 06:23:20 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 11, 2021, 04:23:45 PM

Religion refuses to do this.

Quite a blanket statement....and an incorrect one in so many cases.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 11, 2021, 07:58:59 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 11, 2021, 06:23:20 PM

Quite a blanket statement....and an incorrect one in so many cases. 

Name one uncertainty religion purports. 
Any particular thing you can come up with = a shrug and tossing it to a god or requiring faith, which is just what you need when no actual reason exists.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 11, 2021, 08:02:36 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 11, 2021, 05:09:16 PM

Most of humanity refuses to do this.


That is a trait of humanity, not of religion -- albeit part of humanity from an early stage was to ascribe that which we don't know to the supernatural, i.e. religion.

Many a religion vs non-religion debate has been side-tracked into the atheist acknowledging we don't know certain things and the religious side getting pissy, calling it a cop-out.
Religion is allergic to "I don't know."  Humanity isn't, especially the portion of humanity that doesn't believe in magic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2021, 09:49:06 PM

https://twitter.com/i/status/1458905160428703744


Only one coach decided not to answer the question. Wisconsin’s Paul Chryst was the only who decided not to reveal how he likes his steak.

It’s good to know that most coaches in the B1G are serious about the way steak is prepared.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 11, 2021, 09:55:21 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 11, 2021, 05:10:27 PM

F = ma, I'll assert that as Truth. 

Sure and V=IR.


Except when V=IZ.

:)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 11, 2021, 10:18:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 11, 2021, 04:42:23 PM

The 20-odd "natural laws" in science are accepted as "Truth".  There has to be some kind of bedrock, and things like F = ma are not questioned.

The problem is when journalists start paraphrasing scientists and confusing science with speculation. 

Math isn’t science. Math is like science, but with proof. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 11, 2021, 10:19:34 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 11, 2021, 09:55:21 PM

Sure and V=IR.


Except when V=IZ.

:)

P+V = Baby.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on November 12, 2021, 07:57:32 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 11, 2021, 09:49:06 PM

Only one coach decided not to answer the question. Wisconsin’s Paul Chryst was the only who decided not to reveal how he likes his steak.

I think he knows revealing he likes it well done and slathered in A1 will get him run out of the state faster than switching to the Air Raid

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 12, 2021, 08:48:38 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 11, 2021, 10:18:25 PM

Math isn’t science. Math is like science, but with proof.

I wasn't referring to math, but natural laws, like F = ma.  There aren't that many of them.  The laws of thermodynamics are perhaps my favorites because they are so broad in application, especially the Second Law.

I was asked what that law was in my preliminary oral exam.  The laws are expressed as mathematics, usually fairly simple equations.


(https://i.imgur.com/yEgS6LQ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 12, 2021, 08:54:50 AM

Is that a Greek fraternity?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 12, 2021, 09:03:45 AM

Quote from: ELA on November 12, 2021, 07:57:32 AM

I think he knows revealing he likes it well done and slathered in A1 will get him run out of the state faster than switching to the Air Raid

PC’s insistence on being so fucking boring is something 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2021, 11:56:02 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 12, 2021, 08:54:50 AM

Is that a Greek fraternity?

I was thinking of sororities (plural) 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2021, 11:57:12 AM

hah, some of those blokes claiming med well were lying!

unwashed heathens

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 12, 2021, 01:33:17 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 10, 2021, 04:38:27 PM

I realize I've participated in the politics. Not going to deny it.

Still never thought those arguments improved the culture of this group though.

Culture? This group?


We're a bunch of f'ing fuckballs. We've been fuckballs for years now.


Just ask MDot.


He's Dr. Detroit. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 12, 2021, 01:34:33 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 10, 2021, 06:58:39 PM

all Im asking for is a safe place

All you need to do is go to Harvard, and wear my Harvard tie, like YOU went to Harvard.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 12, 2021, 01:40:04 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 11, 2021, 11:13:51 AM

You make a good point.  Some people really DON'T want to talk about COVID. 

I've revived the COVID thread, let's try and keep the discussion there, so that folks who don't want to talk about it, won't be forced to read through it on other threads.

Always stepping on my toes. You should now buy my shares in this site. 

It makes no money, but I'll give you a great deal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 12, 2021, 01:42:05 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 11, 2021, 02:27:55 PM

meat is cooked for a reason and its not just to make it tender

I think I'll stick to it being cooked

Lots of people eat chicken. If you eat it raw, you puke. 

You can eat beef, fish, pork, and many other meats raw, and not puke.

And you can eat raw chicken eggs.

Weird.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 12, 2021, 01:45:22 PM

Quote from: ELA on November 12, 2021, 07:57:32 AM

I think he knows revealing he likes it well done and slathered in A1 will get him run out of the state faster than switching to the Air Raid

Those people up there like to eat hockey pucks. For real. I've tried to order MR, how I like it, and it always come out MW.

Here is Europe, it's always rare. Like purple.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 12, 2021, 01:46:19 PM

Just trying to catch up here.


You guys are... something. And I love you. Even 'Fro. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2021, 01:46:24 PM

I eat very under done chicken occasionally, sometimes it's not warm in the middle

no puking yet, but I'll keep trying

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2021, 01:48:22 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 12, 2021, 01:45:22 PM

Those people up there like to eat hockey pucks. For real. I've tried to order MR, how I like it, and it always come out MW.

Here is Europe, it's always rare. Like purple.

the vast majority of places I always order my steak rare, comes out med rare

a few very good steak houses such as Archie's Waeside know how to cook a med rare steak properly

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 12, 2021, 01:51:17 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 12, 2021, 01:46:24 PM

I eat very under done chicken occasionally, sometimes it's not warm in the middle

no puking yet, but I'll keep trying

dont miss with chicken man

it will get ya

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2021, 01:52:51 PM

Jack London was said to be fond of under done fowl, especially duck

but they said the booze got him

they will probably blame the booze for my death as well

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 12, 2021, 01:53:31 PM

The wife likes steak "blu", which is rarer than rare.  She had surf and turf at a place in Savannah (it was lunch special only $35) and they actually provided the filet as she likes it.  I am usually medium rare to rare.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 12, 2021, 03:05:49 PM

Haven't ordered steak in a restaurant in quite some time. We just had 1/2 a side of beef put in the freezer a couple weeks ago and there were a few good steaks included. As I have learned how to cook a good steak using the grill and then the Blackstone griddle, I have no reason to go out for steak. That and I paid just a little over $3lb for the beef including the steaks. 

That said, I prefer Med Rare while the wife likes Medium. Pretty easy to do on the grill. Set my target temp to 130 deg for Med Rare and about 140 deg for her medium (indirect heat). Then about a min or so per side on the Blackstone on high heat and the steak come out perfect. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 12, 2021, 03:10:38 PM

We tried the local steakhouses here, a few of'em, I can do as well at home except the sides.  Bones is fairly well known but more a place to be seen than a high end restaurant, I thought.  We go to STK on occasion as their happy hour is pretty good, their usual prices are excessive.

To me, steak is the easiest thing to cook among anything considered "expensive".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2021, 03:39:40 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 12, 2021, 03:05:49 PM

That said, I prefer Med Rare while the wife likes Medium. Pretty easy to do on the grill. Set my target temp to 130 deg for Med Rare and about 140 deg for her medium (indirect heat). Then about a min or so per side on the Blackstone on high heat and the steak come out perfect.

that's good


my med rare is 125
not a huge difference

if I'm dining out and they hit 130 I'm happy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 12, 2021, 03:43:29 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 12, 2021, 01:46:19 PM

Just trying to catch up here.


You guys are... something. And I love you. Even 'Fro.

Arent you supposed to be in Europe or something?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 12, 2021, 03:43:40 PM

Generally rare is 125, med-rare is 135, but that's absolute finish temp. 

Depending on cooking method, pulling a steak off the grill right at 125 could finish closer to 130-135 due to carryover, but most steaks cooked that way will probably end up closer to 130. 

When I'm shooting for MR, I'll usually pull a steak off the grill at around 127, and then while it rests it'll come up the rest of the way. I sear first and then move it to the indirect side, so I don't need to worry about the searing step overcooking it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 12, 2021, 03:46:12 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 12, 2021, 01:45:22 PM

Those people up there like to eat hockey pucks. For real. I've tried to order MR, how I like it, and it always come out MW.

Here is Europe, it's always rare. Like purple.

Yeah, and the problem is, most beef in Europe is crap.  Eating bad meat, uncooked, makes it even worse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 12, 2021, 03:48:25 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 12, 2021, 03:43:40 PM

Generally rare is 125, med-rare is 135, but that's absolute finish temp.

Depending on cooking method, pulling a steak off the grill right at 125 could finish closer to 130-135 due to carryover, but most steaks cooked that way will probably end up closer to 130.

When I'm shooting for MR, I'll usually pull a steak off the grill at around 127, and then while it rests it'll come up the rest of the way. I sear first and then move it to the indirect side, so I don't need to worry about the searing step overcooking it.

Yeah, I was doing the reverse sear for a while, but I've switched back lately.  Results come out pretty much as good and it's easier for me to manage temp.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 12, 2021, 03:50:56 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 12, 2021, 03:46:12 PM

Yeah, and the problem is, most beef in Europe is crap.  Eating bad meat, uncooked, makes it even worse.

The bisteca Florentina I had in Florence was pretty fan good. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 12, 2021, 03:53:00 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on November 12, 2021, 03:50:56 PM

The bisteca Florentina I had in Florence was pretty fan good.

Same thing I had in Florence was cooked well and seasoned well but the quality of beef was low, MUCH lower than any equivalent restaurant I've ever had in the States.

Their good beef is imported from South America.  The local stuff is low quality compared to even average stuff here in the US.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 12, 2021, 03:56:11 PM

I was pretty happy with the steak I got in Florence. Not sure where they get their beef though. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 12, 2021, 03:58:19 PM

Starting to think you yahoos have no clue of the difference between good beef and bad.  

Bless your hearts though, that's probably a good thing. Low expectations. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2021, 04:53:38 PM

https://www.cpmercato.com/ (https://www.cpmercato.com/)

The Mercato is a retail store and butcher shop featureing fresh hand-cut Certified Piedmontese beef and unique ingredients that match the quality of our beef. With this store, we give Lincoln and the surrounding areas access to our premium Certified Piedmontese beef and products that might not be available anywhere else in the area.

This place in Lincoln has some great beef



The Piedmontese is a breed of domestic cattle that originated in the region of Piedmont, in north-west Italy. The calves are born fawn coloured, and turn grey-white as they mature.




18 OZ 32-DAY DRY AGED BONE-IN NEW YORK STRIP
$34.99
Quality Certified Piedmontese Bone-In New York Strip that has been dry-aged for 32 days to maximize the leanness and tenderness already pronounced in our beef.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 12, 2021, 04:57:17 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 12, 2021, 04:53:38 PM

https://www.cpmercato.com/ (https://www.cpmercato.com/)

The Mercato is a retail store and butcher shop featureing fresh hand-cut Certified Piedmontese beef and unique ingredients that match the quality of our beef. With this store, we give Lincoln and the surrounding areas access to our premium Certified Piedmontese beef and products that might not be available anywhere else in the area.

This place in Lincoln has some great beef



The Piedmontese is a breed of domestic cattle that originated in the region of Piedmont, in north-west Italy. The calves are born fawn coloured, and turn grey-white as they mature.




18 OZ 32-DAY DRY AGED BONE-IN NEW YORK STRIP
$34.99
Quality Certified Piedmontese Bone-In New York Strip that has been dry-aged for 32 days to maximize the leanness and tenderness already pronounced in our beef.

Well duh.  Cattle aren't indigenous to North America, all of our stock was brought over from Europe.

Doesn't change the fact that in the intervening 500 years, the beef here has become superior to the beef over there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 12, 2021, 05:56:42 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 12, 2021, 03:43:29 PM

Arent you supposed to be in Europe or something?

Went to a 2* Michelin tonight. No idea how they got those ratings. 

Sucked.

Lisbon.. Don't go here.

Terrible food, all the way around.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 12, 2021, 06:00:22 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 12, 2021, 03:56:11 PM

I was pretty happy with the steak I got in Florence. Not sure where they get their beef though.

one of the best steaks I've ever had was in Rome. They cooked it on a huge piece of stone that they took out of a seriously hot oven and put right in the middle of the table and then the steak right on top of that smoking hot stone.

Think all they used on it was sea salt, pepper, olive oil, rosemary, and little bit of butter. It was incredible.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 12, 2021, 06:02:23 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 12, 2021, 05:56:42 PM

Went to a 2* Michelin tonight. No idea how they got those ratings.

Sucked.

Lisbon.. Don't go here.

Terrible food, all the way around.

they pay those people off for their stars imo. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 12, 2021, 06:09:24 PM

yeah, so in the dumbest news I've heard all week- 

Microsoft and Gucci are making a Gucci branded XBOX- which wait for it- they are limiting to 100 made and selling at Gucci stores for $10,000. 

And watch them sell them in 5 minutes and then watch them resale on eBay for $100,000. For a $499 video game. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 12, 2021, 06:13:05 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 12, 2021, 06:09:24 PM

yeah, so in the dumbest news I've heard all week-

Microsoft and Gucci are making a Gucci branded XBOX- which wait for it- they are limiting to 100 made and selling at Gucci stores for $10,000.

And watch them sell them in 5 minutes and then watch them resale on eBay for $100,000. For a $499 video game.

I gotta say, in the insane world in which we live... a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing...

...that's also the dumbest news I've heard all week. Are we sure this isn't April Fools in November or something?

Anyone who would pay that doesn't deserve to have $10K. Or, more accurately, doesn't deserve to have a $10K credit limit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 12, 2021, 06:26:51 PM

I honestly think a great investment would be to take 10 mundane household items chosen at random and do the same thing with them.  
This is what happens when the number of billionaires doubles in 12 years.  They can literally buy anything, so they do.

Sell a broom by Dr. Dre for $17,000.
Market a hammer made out of Tyrannosaurs teeth for $189,000.
Produce a bed slipper made of the down of an emperor penguin's newborn for $322,000.

Some dipshit with 9 yachts will buy them.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 12, 2021, 06:39:57 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 12, 2021, 06:26:51 PM

I honestly think a great investment would be to take 10 mundane household items chosen at random and do the same thing with them. 
This is what happens when the number of billionaires doubles in 12 years.  They can literally buy anything, so they do.

Sell a broom by Dr. Dre for $17,000.
Market a hammer made out of Tyrannosaurs teeth for $189,000.
Produce a bed slipper made of the down of an emperor penguin's newborn for $322,000.

Some dipshit with 9 yachts will buy them. 

LMAO. Fact.

Just have to make sure the T-Rex hammer and penguin newborn slipper is designed by Louis Vuitton or something- and some rich dichead will buy it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 12, 2021, 07:33:11 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 12, 2021, 06:13:05 PM

I gotta say, in the insane world in which we live... a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing...

...that's also the dumbest news I've heard all week. Are we sure this isn't April Fools in November or something?

Anyone who would pay that doesn't deserve to have $10K. Or, more accurately, doesn't deserve to have a $10K credit limit.

yeah, wish it was a joke- but it's real. it's ugly as sin too.

(https://i.imgur.com/OXXD8wO.png)

https://www.engadget.com/gucci-xbox-series-x-224813032.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 12, 2021, 07:38:39 PM

I will tell you the Eames lounge chair and ottoman is worth every penny and it looks beautiful..   A LV bag or Xbox, no thanks. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2021, 08:54:39 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 12, 2021, 04:57:17 PM

Well duh.  Cattle aren't indigenous to North America, all of our stock was brought over from Europe.

Doesn't change the fact that in the intervening 500 years, the beef here has become superior to the beef over there.

well, obviously this beef was fed Nebraska corn
not some sage brush from Texas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 12, 2021, 09:25:15 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 12, 2021, 07:33:11 PM

yeah, wish it was a joke- but it's real. it's ugly as sin too.

(https://i.imgur.com/OXXD8wO.png)

https://www.engadget.com/gucci-xbox-series-x-224813032.html

The funniest part is the rich kid is still going to hurl that controller into the wall when he loses the game, no matter how much it cost.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2021, 09:49:28 PM

same as the poor kid with the 2nd hand controller, no matter the chance of having it replaced

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 12, 2021, 11:39:50 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 12, 2021, 08:54:39 PM

well, obviously this beef was fed Nebraska corn
not some sage brush from Texas

You'll get no argument from me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 13, 2021, 07:44:36 AM

Many "billionaires" are rather frugal, old habits and all that.  That is one reason they are billionaires.  The folks who splurge often are the newly high income folks who wnat to look rich.

Sam Walton drove an old truck, Warren Buffett lives in the same house he did in 1965.  I see Elon has been selling a chunk of Tesla stock of late.  I presume he's going to donate the proceeds to avoid taxes or he would get clipped a bit.  They usually have a charitable donor fund which is a nice thing to have.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 13, 2021, 09:25:19 AM

8 Frugal Living Tips to Learn From Warren Buffett

https://www.moneytalksnews.com/slideshows/frugal-living-tips-to-learn-from-warren-buffett/ (https://www.moneytalksnews.com/slideshows/frugal-living-tips-to-learn-from-warren-buffett/)

I only slip up on #3 - I drink and I enjoy the occasional cigar

otherwise I nail the other 7 tips

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 13, 2021, 09:41:22 AM

Why a wealth tax for people like Elon Musk is so hard to pull off : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2021/11/13/1054711913/progressives-wealth-tax-super-rich-elon-musk-jeff-bezos)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 13, 2021, 10:13:38 AM

because they own politicians?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 13, 2021, 11:08:41 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 13, 2021, 10:13:38 AM

because they own politicians?

The article lays it out pretty clearly, basically we tax income, and a billionaire doesn't need income.  I'm quite sure they chuckle over any current tax the rich notions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 13, 2021, 11:41:00 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 13, 2021, 11:08:41 AM

The article lays it out pretty clearly, basically we tax income, and a billionaire doesn't need income.  I'm quite sure they chuckle over any current tax the rich notions.

The rich pay a huge portion of the taxes paid
We currently are a republic and while we are its against what this country was founded on to just reach out discriminately and take money away from those deemed wealthy just to fund what the government wants to do

Its much better to support the ability for folks to become rich rather then encourage folks to just live off the government

to take away ones incentive to achieve economic independence undermines the very foundation of this country

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 13, 2021, 12:23:49 PM

Lots of rich people own or manage companies that generate corporate income taxes.  Michael Dell probably pays very little in income tax.  Dell Technologies pays tens of billions every year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 13, 2021, 01:05:42 PM

I see a lot of talk about taxing the rich.  The article explains nice,y why that doesn't happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 14, 2021, 03:08:47 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 13, 2021, 04:24:18 PM

What is wrong with the food?

They don't know how to cook here.

I'll start with one example - soggy fries.

Who likes soggy fries? Apparently the Portuguese.

I asked for crispy and I get soggy. I tried 5 times.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 14, 2021, 07:46:53 AM

New Midtown Mixed-Use Building Concept on West Peachtree Street in Contention for one of Atlanta's Tallest Buildings | What Now Atlanta (https://whatnowatlanta.com/new-midtown-mixed-use-building-concept-on-west-peachtree-street-in-contention-for-one-of-atlantas-tallest-buildings/)

Near us, West Peachtree Street is a booming corridor.

I hear food in Portugal is not very good.

We had one substandard meal in Barcelona, but we had dinner at the hotel in the exec lounge each night because it was free.  And pretty decent.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 14, 2021, 08:25:36 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 14, 2021, 03:08:47 AM

I asked for crispy and I get soggy. I tried 5 times.

I'd stop at 1 specially overseas,ya know they're out of sight? If they didn't grasp crispy the 1-2 X,then they don't understand you.After that they don't give a shit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 14, 2021, 08:27:16 AM

Brussels had the best fries I've had in Europe, they tasted like potatoes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 14, 2021, 09:17:56 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 14, 2021, 08:27:16 AM

Brussels had the best fries I've had in Europe, they tasted like potatoes.

I would think the French would have the best fries

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 14, 2021, 09:25:17 AM

Think they were actually hatched(as we know them) in Belgium

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 14, 2021, 10:07:04 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 14, 2021, 09:25:17 AM

Think they were actually hatched(as we know them) in Belgium

well what about dip, toast and of course kiss

has this been a sham all these years

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 14, 2021, 10:10:54 AM

My wife had never heard of French toast before she got here.  She also tells me "chateaubriand" is not a French cut of beef known in France.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 14, 2021, 10:12:28 AM

French fries are indeed, actually, Belgian fries.  And the ones I've had in Brussels were fantastic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 14, 2021, 10:13:27 AM

Pomme frite.

In France, and Belgium, they are thin cut and taste like potatoes, generally.  Here they taste like salt and oil.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 14, 2021, 10:16:05 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 14, 2021, 09:17:56 AM

I would think the French would have the best fries

So would they, if you asked them. But of course the French think they have the best everything... Because it's French. 

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 14, 2021, 10:07:04 AM

well what about dip, toast and of course kiss

has this been a sham all these years

French Dip was apparently invented in LA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_dip

And the kiss is overrated compared to the Aussie version. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 14, 2021, 10:18:14 AM

The French dip was invented in SoCal?  Wasn't everything?

And the French do have the best wine and cheese, their snobbery is merited in those areas.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 14, 2021, 12:10:01 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 13, 2021, 11:08:41 AM

The article lays it out pretty clearly, basically we tax income, and a billionaire doesn't need income.  I'm quite sure they chuckle over any current tax the rich notions.

I understand this

doesn't mean that politicians couldn't propose another way to gather taxes besides income

you know, like a sales tax on luxury items or something else targeted at the ultra rich
but politicians don't want to tax themselves or their buddies

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 14, 2021, 01:34:16 PM

Congress did try a luxury tax some while back, it put a lot of folks out of work.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 14, 2021, 01:44:50 PM

I'm sure it was horrible

those poor folks making Italian sports cars and yachts and private jets and $5,000 cowboy hats need work

STETSON MEN'S DIAMANTE 1000X FUR FELT COWBOY HATStetson
Details/stetson-mens-diamante-1000x-fur-felt-cowboy-hat/32794200021.html
Stetson Men's Diamante 1000X Fur Felt Cowboy Hat
Item # 2000257376
★★★★★
No rating value for Stetson Men's Diamante 1000X Fur Felt Cowboy Hat
$5,499.99


https://www.sheplers.com/stetson-mens-diamante-1000x-fur-felt-cowboy-hat/2000257376.html?colorCode=001&glCountry=US&glCurrency=USD&ef_id=EAIaIQobChMIt7yC-MCY9AIVk67ICh0u1w4MEAQYBSABEgJN9vD_BwE:G:s&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIt7yC-MCY9AIVk67ICh0u1w4MEAQYBSABEgJN9vD_BwE (https://www.sheplers.com/stetson-mens-diamante-1000x-fur-felt-cowboy-hat/2000257376.html?colorCode=001&glCountry=US&glCurrency=USD&ef_id=EAIaIQobChMIt7yC-MCY9AIVk67ICh0u1w4MEAQYBSABEgJN9vD_BwE:G:s&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIt7yC-MCY9AIVk67ICh0u1w4MEAQYBSABEgJN9vD_BwE)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 14, 2021, 01:48:06 PM

As I recall, some of it was on yachts, and the yacht business came to a screeching.  The sales of slightly used yachts from Europe however did just fine.

But one could in theory tax items that cost over some high price, say $100,000.  I'm not sure it would raise much revenue.  There is an argument that a pure wealth tax in the US would be unconstitutional, and it has done poorly in Europe where it was widely tried, and widely reversed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 14, 2021, 01:51:54 PM

call it unconstitutional, point to examples of past failures, use whatever reason/excuse

bottomline:  the ultra rich don't get taxed in the USA - the government is in charge of taxes - congressmen, Senators, Presidents, Supreme court justices have more money than average

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 14, 2021, 02:39:15 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/A6cHH0M.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 14, 2021, 03:08:37 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 14, 2021, 01:51:54 PM

call it unconstitutional, point to examples of past failures, use whatever reason/excuse

bottomline:  the ultra rich don't get taxed in the USA - the government is in charge of taxes - congressmen, Senators, Presidents, Supreme court justices have more money than average

Congressional salaries should be the US average every year.  Might get some of the selfish, greedy riff-raff out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 14, 2021, 03:41:54 PM

the salaries are fine in my opinion

it's the fringe benefits that bother me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 14, 2021, 04:14:31 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 14, 2021, 10:18:14 AM

The French dip was invented in SoCal?  Wasn't everything?

And the French do have the best wine and cheese, their snobbery is merited in those areas.

I'll give them the cheese. Not necessarily the wine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_of_Paris_(wine)

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 14, 2021, 03:08:37 PM

Congressional salaries should be the US average every year.  Might get some of the selfish, greedy riff-raff out.

Take away the salary, and suddenly you're going to have people who are still motivated by the same selfish, greedy, motives but who are even MORE "up for sale" than currently.

BTW Congressmen don't make much... Only $174K. That's not peanuts, but in the DC area it's not gonna go far. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 14, 2021, 04:17:23 PM

Played golf today. Hot as hell. Hit the high 80s by the time we finished up (11:45 AM PT). I wish I had brought the umbrella for my push cart for the shade protection. 

Par is 60, and I shot an 81 for +21. One of those rounds where I didn't have a single blow-up hole (i.e. triple bogey or worse), but I simply couldn't convert when I needed to. Too many holes where I turned a chance at par into a bogey, or turned a bogey into a double. 

I think it's going to move my handicap back out of the "teens" because it'll age out a +15 in the calculations...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 14, 2021, 04:48:21 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/0ssDGVq.png)

I finally finished, had to read it in spurts.  Gallego is now a US Congressman from AZ wth a degree from Harvard, and a combat Marine infantryman.  Those vehicles were designed for amphibious assaults, floating on water, so you can imagine they were not well armored or appropriate for transport in the desert.  They couldn't even use them to cross the Euphrates because they were not equipped for that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 14, 2021, 05:10:38 PM

(2) Watch | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/watch/?extid=CL-UNK-UNK-UNK-IOS_GK0T-GK1C&v=316816283486013)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 14, 2021, 06:21:23 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 14, 2021, 04:14:31 PM

BTW Congressmen don't make much... Only $174K. That's not peanuts, but in the DC area it's not gonna go far.

The fact that someone can say "only 174K" sickens me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 14, 2021, 09:41:32 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 14, 2021, 06:21:23 PM

The fact that someone can say "only 174K" sickens me.

Yeah- no shit- especially when the median income is about $31,000 a year- and with inflation putting a squeeze on those people their measley $31k/yr is getting them less and less.

Congress making almost 6x the average American, and let's not forget the amazing benefits they get like free office space, free travel, and (mostly) free health care - when the average healthcare costs for average americans have skyrocketed since the passage of Obamacare. Family of 4 used to pay on average $14,000/yr - now it's like $32,000. Basically like buying a new car every year- it's insane.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 14, 2021, 09:47:49 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 14, 2021, 04:14:31 PM

Take away the salary, and suddenly you're going to have people who are still motivated by the same selfish, greedy, motives but who are even MORE "up for sale" than currently.

BTW Congressmen don't make much... Only $174K. That's not peanuts, but in the DC area it's not gonna go far.

bolded part- sadly is true. Take away their salaries and they'll be even bigger whores and up for sale to the highest bidding lobbyists.

underlined part- you can thank the explosion of corporate lobbyists and special interest groups- which have EXPLODED since the late 80s. Before then- DC area was nowhere near the most expensive place in US.

At the close of the 1970s there were 300 registered lobbyists in DC- now there's more than 30,000 registered lobbyists in DC.

This is a fascinating piece Dan Rather did on lobbyists- after he had to re-sign/fired from CBS- he went to work for Mark Cuban's HD Network- and did better journalism there in the few years he was there than he did in his entire 30+ year career for establishment media.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NowpCswP40c

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 14, 2021, 09:56:15 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 14, 2021, 09:47:49 PM

At the close of the 1970s there were 300 registered lobbyists in DC- now there's more than 30,000 registered lobbyists in DC.

And i get made fun of for mentioning the egg lobby, which has documented instances of illegal indiscretions, leaning on people, and even threats of violence and financial blowback.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2021, 07:29:46 AM

It's a bit hard to tell someone they are not allowed to speak with a Congressman, and vice versa, and a salary of $174K for top leaders in DC is not what I'd consider extreme.  They gain wealth, if they do, by other means, often writing a book or marrying or having it when they get into politics.  Mosst have to have two residences, one at home and one in DC.

And most are not "wealthy". If we cut their salaries severely, only wealthy people could serve.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 15, 2021, 08:07:48 AM

Well it's a job that was originially supposed to be more like jury duty, but it's become a profession in of itself.  
Everything is broken.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2021, 08:13:27 AM

The Congresspeople "in the news" do treat it as a career, but many do not.  Many of them try to do a good job and then leave, but seniority means they get ignored.

I was slightly involved in one lobbying effort, the gist was trying to explain some basic patent law to a Congressman, it wasn't nefarious at all.  It also wasn't at all easy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 15, 2021, 08:19:42 AM

the problem point blank period is the money. you have people like Pelosi who raises tens of millions of dollars at a clip then gives that money to other Democrats campaigns to try and control them. whoever is the biggest corporate whore can raise the most cash and then wield awesome power over everyone else simply by cutting others in on the money they raise. you need campaign cash? Oh no problem- vote for me for speaker and do everything I say. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 15, 2021, 08:33:24 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 14, 2021, 06:21:23 PM

The fact that someone can say "only 174K" sickens me.

You're finally coming around - baby steps

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2021, 08:34:17 AM

It is said people in the House are running for office almost 24/7, for their entire term, aside from anyone with a solid seat.

You need money to run.

The book I just read is interesting on that point about how a junior Congressman says he won his office.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 15, 2021, 09:08:58 AM

I'm not a big fan of term limits or reducing salaries, but I do think the House should have way more people. Like double or triple. Congress set the number at 435 in 1929, and the population has grown by 200 million people since then. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2021, 09:15:13 AM

That would be entertaining indeed, probably even more dysfunctional, but entertaining.

"We" could simply vote them out, of course, if "we" didn't like them.  Most folks like their Congressperson while disliking Congress.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 15, 2021, 09:20:07 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 15, 2021, 09:08:58 AM

I'm not a big fan of term limits or reducing salaries, but I do think the House should have way more people. Like double or triple. Congress set the number at 435 in 1929, and the population has grown by 200 million people since then.

You have to get the money out of the election system someway somehow. I don't know what the answer is on that- but someone has to find it- and fast.

I am for term limits- this thing is suppose to be a civic duty- NOT a 50 year do-nothing career (*cough* Biden *cough*) where they enrich themselves and their families with shady foreign deals, big money book deals, speaking fees, tv appearances, tv/radio shows, trade favors for corporations then leave and go sit on their boards/get hired by them, or insider trading/insider deals (*cough* PELOSI *cough*). I think 3-4 terms should be the limit- something like that. And I think all stock market trading should be banned for them and their immediate families while they are in office- and I think once they leave office it should be illegal for them to serve on corporate boards of publicly traded companies, be registered lobbyists once they are out of office, and it should be illegal for them to take corporate speaking gigs where they make $600,000 a speech (*cough* HILLARY *cough*) for at least 20 years from date they are out.

Not sure I would add more people- you'd just be adding to the dysfunction and the corruption and there would just be even more lobbyists and dirty cash in the system.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2021, 09:52:13 AM

we sure as hell don't need more congressmen

term limits would be good, but it wouldn't change things as dramatically as some folks hope it might

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 15, 2021, 10:05:12 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 14, 2021, 06:21:23 PM

The fact that someone can say "only 174K" sickens me.

The sort of people who run for Congress are educated, white collar professionals. Lawyers. Doctors. Businesspeople. 

For a lot of those people, $174K is likely to be a pay cut. 

They're in it for the power, not the money. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 15, 2021, 10:06:14 AM

If you really want to affect change in Congress, repeal the 17th Amendment. Prior to the 17th, US Senators were selected by the State Legislature. They were accountable to the state and not some political party. They didn't need to run for election because they were appointed. And if the state legislature didn't care for how they were voting, they could be replaced. 

The Senate was supposed to be the states voice in the Fed Gov't. The House was the People's voice. Now you have 2 houses of congress that are subservient to the whims of the public, constantly running for election and kneeling the to alter of the party leaders for committee positions and funding. 

The other net affect is that after the 17th went into affect, much of the power of Congress was legislated to the Executive branch through numerous new departments with unelected regulators that essentially now write laws through regulations. Congress needs to take this power back and maintain it where the founders had originally placed it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2021, 10:23:13 AM

If you really want to affect change in Congress, repeal the 17th Amendment.

and we all know how likely this would be

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 15, 2021, 10:31:44 AM

*effect

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2021, 10:37:50 AM

I have learned not to pine for things that are pretty much not going to happen, like the Braves ever winning a WS again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 15, 2021, 10:44:45 AM

If you really want to fix Congress, a proportional representation scheme rather than our first-past-the-post voting metric and direct representation of a district would go a long way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_representation

Voters vote for the "R" or "D" after someone's name for a House of Representatives or Senate rather than the actual name, so why not accept it and make a voting scheme that makes sense?

Everyone claims that they hate the two-party system. Proportional representation is the only way to end it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2021, 10:55:41 AM

like Nebraska's unicameral ?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 15, 2021, 11:11:10 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 15, 2021, 10:05:12 AM

The sort of people who run for Congress are educated, white collar professionals. Lawyers. Doctors. Businesspeople.

For sure.

(https://i.imgur.com/xf7Wkh6.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2021, 11:11:21 AM

I love the two party system.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 15, 2021, 11:32:00 AM

I love to party.

Not sure about systems.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 15, 2021, 11:33:55 AM

Yep. Off to party now. Pretty much worked all day here on the ship. Brought my computer and a small printer.

I really want to retire.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 15, 2021, 11:41:39 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 15, 2021, 10:05:12 AM

The sort of people who run for Congress are educated, white collar professionals. Lawyers. Doctors. Businesspeople.

For a lot of those people, $174K is likely to be a pay cut.

They're in it for the power, not the money.

That comes hand in hand,many have went into congress not that well off and somehow manuevered  a millionare portfolio and lifetime health coverage.You don't think corporations/lobbyists aren't bribing anyone?I'd like to think not but unfortunately they walk amongst us

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 15, 2021, 12:28:02 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 15, 2021, 11:11:10 AM

For sure.

(https://i.imgur.com/xf7Wkh6.jpg)

Again, 2-party system. The voters voted for her because she had a "D" after her name. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York%27s_14th_congressional_district

That congressional district has gone to that political party since 1993. They very well may have elected Mickey Mouse [D-NY] if he'd run. 

BTW for whatever complaints you [and I] have against AOC, she is educated. Double major in international relations and economics and graduated cum laude from BU. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 15, 2021, 12:29:41 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 15, 2021, 10:55:41 AM

like Nebraska's unicameral ?

Different system. That's still direct representation. 

From the wiki article it looks really interesting, though. I hadn't really ever read up on the Nebraska legislature. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 15, 2021, 12:43:04 PM

Congress has been mostly nonfunctional for some time. A typical Congressman's day is probably 90 percent fundraising and other election activities. They don't even bother to legislate openly anymore. This is a pretty direct result of the party system, especially the two party system.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 15, 2021, 01:13:10 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 15, 2021, 10:06:14 AM

If you really want to affect change in Congress, repeal the 17th Amendment. Prior to the 17th, US Senators were selected by the State Legislature. They were accountable to the state and not some political party. They didn't need to run for election because they were appointed. And if the state legislature didn't care for how they were voting, they could be replaced.

State governments are run by political parties. They will answer to politicians, ones that are very good at legislating themselves into strong position to hold power with fewer votes. 

I imagine we'd get a different kind of congress with a different kind of cronyism. Maybe better, but certianly not free of many, many of the issues we have now. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on November 15, 2021, 02:52:04 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 14, 2021, 12:10:01 PM

I understand this

doesn't mean that politicians couldn't propose another way to gather taxes besides income

you know, like a sales tax on luxury items or something else targeted at the ultra rich
but politicians don't want to tax themselves or their buddies

They killed the American Yacht Industry in the early 90s because of a luxury tax


Opinion | Boat Luxury Tax Drives an Industry Aground - The New York Times (nytimes.com) (https://www.nytimes.com/1991/01/03/opinion/l-boat-luxury-tax-drives-an-industry-aground-926091.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on November 15, 2021, 02:52:54 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 14, 2021, 01:34:16 PM

Congress did try a luxury tax some while back, it put a lot of folks out of work.

Didn't see your post before I replied

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on November 15, 2021, 02:55:42 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 15, 2021, 10:06:14 AM

If you really want to affect change in Congress, repeal the 17th Amendment. Prior to the 17th, US Senators were selected by the State Legislature. They were accountable to the state and not some political party. They didn't need to run for election because they were appointed. And if the state legislature didn't care for how they were voting, they could be replaced.

The Senate was supposed to be the states voice in the Fed Gov't. The House was the People's voice. Now you have 2 houses of congress that are subservient to the whims of the public, constantly running for election and kneeling the to alter of the party leaders for committee positions and funding.

The other net affect is that after the 17th went into affect, much of the power of Congress was legislated to the Executive branch through numerous new departments with unelected regulators that essentially now write laws through regulations. Congress needs to take this power back and maintain it where the founders had originally placed it.

Amen Brother

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2021, 03:23:57 PM

I don't think it at all viable to repeal 17 nor to have term limits.  Not gonna happen.  Neither is much else suggested here.

Some things we have to live with even though they are akin to Eastern Michigan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 15, 2021, 04:14:44 PM

I think term limits would do a world of good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2021, 04:31:30 PM

California bullet train's latest woe: Will it be high speed? (apnews.com) (https://apnews.com/article/business-gavin-newsom-san-francisco-california-high-speed-rail-authority-state-budgets-d6667f05a1ae22989bb63ceb8aaf4f7c)

The Cali "HSR" might start with diesel electric locos.

I'd laugh, but it's really sad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2021, 04:41:47 PM

Rep. Ruben Gallego writes an ode to his fellow Marines, veterans in new book (nbcnews.com) (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/rep-ruben-gallego-writes-ode-fellow-marines-vets-new-book-rcna4972?fbclid=IwAR2jgx8R7giUoUMG_Shtn3AaOUMbk5cUvgPerYdh98zoAor7ovLzNaKLqaM)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 15, 2021, 04:58:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 15, 2021, 04:31:30 PM

California bullet train's latest woe: Will it be high speed? (apnews.com) (https://apnews.com/article/business-gavin-newsom-san-francisco-california-high-speed-rail-authority-state-budgets-d6667f05a1ae22989bb63ceb8aaf4f7c)

The Cali "HSR" might start with diesel electric locos.

I'd laugh, but it's really sad.

Sort of the epitaph for America, for which the overall political message is doing anything at all is impossible. The learned helplessness of our times.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2021, 04:59:35 PM

In my view, it helps to have a REALISTIC plan.

They never did, and sold a bill of goods to the voters.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 15, 2021, 05:02:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 15, 2021, 04:59:35 PM

In my view, it helps to have a REALISTIC plan.

They never did, and sold a bill of goods to the voters.

It's realistic, in the sense that building a train track with train stations is realistic. In isn't realistic, in the sense that actually building anything of that scale in this country is near impossible.  Like I said, learned helplessness.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2021, 05:09:55 PM

When you lack a credible financial plan, a thing is not realistic, it's built off some forlorn hope funding will appear from somewhere else.

It was a bill of goods, over sold, under funded by miles, and never had a chance of being anything beyond some expensive track laid between small towns in the Valley.

Now, the FEDERAL government can BORROW, almost indefinitely, so they COULD fund such things, in theory, using fiat money.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 15, 2021, 05:51:42 PM

It doesn't even matter. It's a stupid idea. 

Connect LA to SF? There are literally 5 airports in the greater LA area (LAX, Long Beach, Burbank, Orange County, Ontario). There are three in the Bay Area (SF, Oakland, San Jose). Planes depart pretty much on the hour from all to all, all day long. Flight time is ~1 hour. Rates are pretty cheap. 

Need to save money, or need to have a car at your location and don't want to rent? It's a 5-6 hour drive. 

The high speed rail has all the cost of air travel, all the hassle of air travel (need to get to a central location, park, etc), and takes almost as long, counting all that extra hassle, as driving. 

HSR between LA and SF is a solution in search of a problem.

There's no way it'll ever reach ridership numbers in order to make it financially viable.

If California really wanted to spend $100B and get a return on it, they'd fund a massive program through the entire UC system to develop the technology to electrify air travel, and license all their patents to Boeing and Airbus to productize it. I'll bet for $100B, they might be able to pull that off. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2021, 05:54:49 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on November 15, 2021, 02:52:04 PM

They killed the American Yacht Industry in the early 90s because of a luxury tax


Opinion | Boat Luxury Tax Drives an Industry Aground - The New York Times (nytimes.com) (https://www.nytimes.com/1991/01/03/opinion/l-boat-luxury-tax-drives-an-industry-aground-926091.html)

the american yacht industry can't have employed enough folks to really impact the national or even a state economy

I'm guessing sacrificing the american yacht industry might have been for the better overall
but, I understand why it was saved, no matter the cost

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2021, 05:56:06 PM

similar to killing the bullet train industry before it becomes a thing 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 15, 2021, 06:02:55 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 15, 2021, 05:54:49 PM

the american yacht industry can't have employed enough folks to really impact the national or even a state economy

I'm guessing sacrificing the american yacht industry might have been for the better overall
but, I understand why it was saved, no matter the cost

But the key is that they killed an industry, for what? 

Create a significant tax that targets a product that rich people buy, and they may just decide not to buy that product. 

So you don't raise that much money (because you can't tax a purchase that isn't made) but you hurt the people making the product. 

You destroy a bunch of jobs and don't even get tax revenue, because you don't realize that you don't get tax revenue of people simply choose not to buy. 

Was the number of jobs all that large? Probably not. But they were needlessly destroyed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2021, 06:06:49 PM

well, you can call it an industry - is it really a big deal to the bottom line?

needlessly?? maybe

are yachts needed?

perhaps it would be better to needlessly kill a few more billionaire funded industries?

I know, I know, it's the american dream to become a billionaire and own multiple yachts

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 15, 2021, 06:10:55 PM

Yes, the ultra-wealthy are good at avoiding their money being taken away.  Whether it's wealth/not income, simply NOT buying a yacht, or paying the best financial advisors obscene amounts of money AND their being worth it.
.
That's what makes a tax code you can write on a napkin so appealing.  
Just pay your fair share.  No crazy financial gymnastics.  
.
But that's crazy talk.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 15, 2021, 06:12:51 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 15, 2021, 06:10:55 PM

Yes, the ultra-wealthy are good at avoiding their money being taken away.  Whether it's wealth/not income, simply NOT buying a yacht, or paying the best financial advisors obscene amounts of money AND their being worth it.
.
That's what makes a tax code you can write on a napkin so appealing. 
Just pay your fair share.  No crazy financial gymnastics. 
.
But that's crazy talk.

Steve Forbes? Is that you?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 15, 2021, 06:13:07 PM

It's Gov't sense of entitlement BWARB's pointing out,they are there to serve,not impose and none of those knobs have understood that for a long time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2021, 06:13:19 PM

but, the tax code isn't something that can be written on a napkin

it's a bit more complex to obscure things from the mere mortals and muddy the eaters for the loopholes to be hidden

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 15, 2021, 06:16:21 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 15, 2021, 06:13:19 PM

but, the tax code isn't something that can be written on a napkin

it's a bit more complex to obscure things from the mere mortals and muddy the eaters for the loopholes to be hidden

I know.

But it could be.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2021, 06:16:32 PM

It doesn't take a tax expert to avoid paying INCOME tax if you are a billionaire.  It's a simple tool called "borrowing on margin".  Then if you do sell you generally get a fairly low income tax rate on long term capital gains, I think it tops out at 23.4% or somesuch.

Higher earned income folks do benefit from tax professionals.

(I'm sure billionaires pay tax professionals and money managers of course.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 15, 2021, 06:18:04 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 15, 2021, 05:09:55 PM

When you lack a credible financial plan, a thing is not realistic, it's built off some forlorn hope funding will appear from somewhere else.

It was a bill of goods, over sold, under funded by miles, and never had a chance of being anything beyond some expensive track laid between small towns in the Valley.

Now, the FEDERAL government can BORROW, almost indefinitely, so they COULD fund such things, in theory, using fiat money.

There is no possible feasible plan, is what I mean. There is no set of circumstances where California could build this rail, whether good idea or bad. It simply isn't how America works these days. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 15, 2021, 06:18:21 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 15, 2021, 06:13:07 PM

It's Gov't sense of entitlement BWARB's pointing out,they are there to serve,not impose and none of those knobs have understood that for a long time

Would the government overstep if the wealthy didn't turn into scurrying cockroaches when the light of honestly and regulation is shone on them?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 15, 2021, 06:19:43 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 15, 2021, 06:18:04 PM

There is no possible feasible plan, is what I mean. There is no set of circumstances where California could build this rail, whether good idea or bad. It simply isn't how America works these days.

Well it doesn't help that they're building it along an active fault line.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2021, 06:21:16 PM

The portion being constructed is in the Central Valley.  The active fault lines are neared the coast.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 15, 2021, 06:23:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 15, 2021, 06:21:16 PM

The portion being constructed is in the Central Valley.  The active fault lines are neared the coast.

So it's running from Fresno to Bakersfield, right?   

If the bookends are rubble, does it matter that the middle held up? lol

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 15, 2021, 06:25:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 15, 2021, 06:18:21 PM

Would the government overstep if the wealthy didn't turn into scurrying cockroaches when the light of honestly and regulation is shone on them?

The Government gave them those roach rights already - they're part of the problem,maybe THEE problem.


A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. - George Bernard Shaw.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 15, 2021, 06:25:52 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 15, 2021, 06:06:49 PM

well, you can call it an industry - is it really a big deal to the bottom line?

needlessly?? maybe

are yachts needed?

perhaps it would be better to needlessly kill a few more billionaire funded industries?

I know, I know, it's the american dream to become a billionaire and own multiple yachts

I'm sure the folks building those yachts were happy with their jobs. 

You know, American jobs. In manufacturing. The ones we seem to keep lamenting about them being gone...

Maybe we should institute a 200% tax on golf clubs and golf balls, and on greens fees and country club dues... After all, golf is a sport that wastes real estate and is played mostly by rich white people. 

I'm sure you won't mind that industry being killed?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2021, 06:27:53 PM

There are no bookends, it's only being built in the Valley.  And California has a lot of infrastructure in earthquake areas, like BART and those bridges.  That's where the people live.  Now one notion is to run Diesel electric locomotives over the "high speed" track so it would easily be connected to regular track.  And oddly that makes some sense to me.  That central portion really has no viable use.  This was easily projected to end up a disaster when it was proposed.

I think HSR will be obsolete before it's ever constructed in the US because of autonomous vehicles.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2021, 06:32:14 PM

We spent two days in St. Tropez a few years back.  Our host took us to a bar over looking the waterfront.  Holy cow, the docks were packed with enormous boats, but the real boats were out in the bay anchored, the size of destroyers, I don't know how many.  They looked to be 300 footers.  In France.  Of course, they could have been owned by Saudis and folks from Monaco, another incredible lodging of extreme wealth, in Europe.

Many countries in Europe tried a wealth tax a few years back and nearly all reversed it.  "We" think of Europe as being "soclaistic" and it simply isn't, much anyway.  The tax burden there falls on the middle class much more than here.  And yes, they get more stuff, but they pay for it in taxes.  Sweden's tax system would kill our middle class, almost literally.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 15, 2021, 06:33:36 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 15, 2021, 06:25:52 PM

Maybe we should institute a 200% tax on golf clubs and golf balls, and on greens fees and country club dues... After all, golf is a sport that wastes real estate and is played mostly by rich white people.

I'm sure you won't mind that industry being killed?

You don't have to tax all that, just the water usage.  :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 15, 2021, 06:35:51 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 15, 2021, 06:25:52 PM

I'm sure the folks building those yachts were happy with their jobs.

You know, American jobs. In manufacturing. The ones we seem to keep lamenting about them being gone...

Maybe we should institute a 200% tax on golf clubs and golf balls, and on greens fees and country club dues... After all, golf is a sport that wastes real estate and is played mostly by rich white people.

I'm sure you won't mind that industry being killed?

That is QUITE a PR tax. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 15, 2021, 06:45:41 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 15, 2021, 06:27:53 PM

There are no bookends, it's only being built in the Valley.  And California has a lot of infrastructure in earthquake areas, like BART and those bridges.  That's where the people live.  Now one notion is to run Diesel electric locomotives over the "high speed" track so it would easily be connected to regular track.  And oddly that makes some sense to me.  That central portion really has no viable use.  This was easily projected to end up a disaster when it was proposed.

I think HSR will be obsolete before it's ever constructed in the US because of autonomous vehicles.

And the reason for that is that it's the only area where you can afford the land.

The goal is a terminus in LA and in SF, running through San Jose and up the peninsula. Three of the most expensive places in the US for land. Even if you're condemning things under eminent domain, you have to pay just compensation, which is ridiculously expensive. 

So people decide to go camel's nose under the tent idea and figure if you build the easy part, you can offer a sunk cost argument to build the rest. But I don't think it'll fly. So you'll end up with a useless effing train from Bakersfield to Merced that nobody rides. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2021, 07:06:48 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 15, 2021, 06:25:52 PM

I'm sure the folks building those yachts were happy with their jobs.

You know, American jobs. In manufacturing. The ones we seem to keep lamenting about them being gone...

Maybe we should institute a 200% tax on golf clubs and golf balls, and on greens fees and country club dues... After all, golf is a sport that wastes real estate and is played mostly by rich white people.

I'm sure you won't mind that industry being killed?

if it kills any clubs over $500 each retail, golf balls more then $50 per box, green fees over $150 per 18, country club memberships over $20,000 per year

hell yes
it won't kill it, long term, they would pay the additional tax
just like the yacht industry
they just didn't like it and told the folks that levied the tax

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2021, 07:13:33 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 15, 2021, 06:33:36 PM

You don't have to tax all that, just the water usage.  :)

that probably should have already happened in Arizona

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2021, 07:14:51 PM

bottom line:  there are plenty of ways to effectively tax the ultra wealthy

but, it will never happen, because they own the folks that control taxes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 16, 2021, 12:06:00 AM

The Adele concert on CBS last night didn't suck. The interview portion with Oprah was a bit pretentious though...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 16, 2021, 12:53:13 AM

Didn't see either - time well spent

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 16, 2021, 05:47:26 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 15, 2021, 12:28:02 PM

Again, 2-party system. The voters voted for her because she had a "D" after her name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York%27s_14th_congressional_district

That congressional district has gone to that political party since 1993. They very well may have elected Mickey Mouse [D-NY] if he'd run.

BTW for whatever complaints you [and I] have against AOC, she is educated. Double major in international relations and economics and graduated cum laude from BU.

Those two useless degrees got her a job as a bartender. Nice work.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 16, 2021, 06:27:05 AM

I wish we had more bartenders in Congress

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 16, 2021, 06:46:21 AM

There are already too many drunks in office.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 16, 2021, 06:55:25 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 16, 2021, 06:46:21 AM

There are already too many drunks in office.

I trust drunks way more than trust fund babies. Especially if they have good stuff and share.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2021, 07:01:19 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 15, 2021, 07:14:51 PM

bottom line:  there are plenty of ways to effectively tax the ultra wealthy

but, it will never happen, because they own the folks that control taxes

I actually don't think it's possible, at any amount that would mean anything.  You could tax them a few percentage points on yachts or whatever else and they'd pay it, but to what end?  If you tax them severely, you can look to Europe for what happened.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 16, 2021, 08:00:49 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 16, 2021, 06:55:25 AM

I trust drunks way more than trust fund babies. Especially if they have good stuff and share.

The trust fund babies are drunks too. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 16, 2021, 08:02:46 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 16, 2021, 08:00:49 AM

The trust fund babies are drunks too. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Well I trust a drunk trust fund baby way more than a sober one

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 16, 2021, 08:11:22 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 15, 2021, 12:28:02 PM

Again, 2-party system. The voters voted for her because she had a "D" after her name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York%27s_14th_congressional_district

That congressional district has gone to that political party since 1993. They very well may have elected Mickey Mouse [D-NY] if he'd run.

BTW for whatever complaints you [and I] have against AOC, she is educated. Double major in international relations and economics and graduated cum laude from BU.

And if I were in charge of that university, I would pay her to never again claim to have a degree in economics from that school. Either that or bulldoze the Business College and apologize the country to maintain some credibility. That women has shown time and time again that she has no clue of how the economy works. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 16, 2021, 08:13:23 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 15, 2021, 01:13:10 PM

State governments are run by political parties. They will answer to politicians, ones that are very good at legislating themselves into strong position to hold power with fewer votes.

I imagine we'd get a different kind of congress with a different kind of cronyism. Maybe better, but certianly not free of many, many of the issues we have now.

Yes, I know that state governments are run by politicians. That was not the point. You will NOT get politics out of the equation. 

You completely skipped the reason for my suggestion in that we begin to remove power from Washington DC and get some power back to the states where it was intended. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 16, 2021, 08:17:38 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 15, 2021, 03:23:57 PM

I don't think it at all viable to repeal 17 nor to have term limits.  Not gonna happen.  Neither is much else suggested here.

Some things we have to live with even though they are akin to Eastern Michigan.

I would never have believed that we would have significant portions of this country wanting to do away with law enforcement. But as we have seen the last couple of years, that is exactly what has happened in some areas of the country.

I'm not saying it will happen nor that it is likely to happen, I am just stating one of the major flaws that was introduced into our system of government that has not worked out well for the country. If enough people become aware of the possibility, as they did with the defund the police movement, perhaps there can be a groundswell of support for the idea. Keeping it to myself does non of that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 16, 2021, 08:18:20 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 15, 2021, 10:31:44 AM

*effect

I never claimed to be an English major. ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 16, 2021, 08:19:32 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 15, 2021, 11:33:55 AM

Yep. Off to party now. Pretty much worked all day here on the ship. Brought my computer and a small printer.

I really want to retire.

A printer? But why? 

And may I suggest the retirement starts with those two things going over the railing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2021, 08:47:45 AM

No area of the country has done away with law enforcement.  And I personally see essentially no way 17 gets reversed or we have term limits, so I personally don't see them as viable options or desires.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 16, 2021, 08:55:15 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 16, 2021, 08:13:23 AM

Yes, I know that state governments are run by politicians. That was not the point. You will NOT get politics out of the equation.

You completely skipped the reason for my suggestion in that we begin to remove power from Washington DC and get some power back to the states where it was intended.

I guess I still don't totally see what that does. It seems to say "the states" are not the people of the states, but the folks in the statehouses. Which, if we want the senate to be an insulated distillation of our statehouse's interested. I've lived in five states, and I've not looked at one and thought "Man, that statehouse is the panacea for bad corrupt government."

The down-the-road effects are interesting. All that senate race money just pours into local races. Pours in. And every redistricting is a bloodbath because the amount of a thumb that can be put on the scale there is pretty crazy. For any issues one might have with the senate, they're not allowed to redraw states to favor them. 

In short, I still struggle to see the upside. Making politicians in Columbus, Ohio, Tallahassee, Florida, Sacramento, California or Springfield, Illinois more powerful and insulating senators more doesn't seem a particular net good, especially in an era where states are more arbitrary as designations, not less. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 16, 2021, 09:05:22 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 16, 2021, 07:01:19 AM

I actually don't think it's possible, at any amount that would mean anything.  You could tax them a few percentage points on yachts or whatever else and they'd pay it, but to what end?  If you tax them severely, you can look to Europe for what happened.

I think it's impossible since the folks that collect taxes just won't do it.

corporations could also be taxed more heavily, but........... not gonna happen

and yes, as long as the wealthy can move about the planet to another state or country that allows them to avoid taxes, taxes will be avoided
but a few percentage points could be collected on much more than yachts.
Plenty of rich folks and corporations have not to this date moved out of California to avoid higher taxes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 16, 2021, 09:10:55 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 16, 2021, 06:55:25 AM

I trust drunks way more than trust fund babies. Especially if they have good stuff and share.

The drunks I know buy their share of rounds

https://youtu.be/dFaPw_uVUHA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 16, 2021, 09:13:40 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 16, 2021, 09:10:55 AM

The drunks I know buy their share of rounds

TBF a lot of trust fund babies will too. (I know I’m getting away from the metaphor now)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 16, 2021, 09:28:27 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 16, 2021, 08:55:15 AM

I guess I still don't totally see what that does. It seems to say "the states" are not the people of the states, but the folks in the statehouses. Which, if we want the senate to be an insulated distillation of our statehouse's interested. I've lived in five states, and I've not looked at one and thought "Man, that statehouse is the panacea for bad corrupt government."

The down-the-road effects are interesting. All that senate race money just pours into local races. Pours in. And every redistricting is a bloodbath because the amount of a thumb that can be put on the scale there is pretty crazy. For any issues one might have with the senate, they're not allowed to redraw states to favor them.

In short, I still struggle to see the upside. Making politicians in Columbus, Ohio, Tallahassee, Florida, Sacramento, California or Springfield, Illinois more powerful and insulating senators more doesn't seem a particular net good, especially in an era where states are more arbitrary as designations, not less.

When an elected official is accountable to an entity, that is the entity that he/she will work to please. Currently, out elected officials are sucking up to their party leaders or things like committee assignments and party funds for their elections, all the while ignoring the people that were elected to serve. They are also for the most part, inaccessible to their constituents. 

If they were sent by the state legislature, at the very least they would be looking to work in the states interest as that is most likely what the state legislature would demand. Also, I can easily call my elected state representative and voice my concerns. I can drive to his office and pretty much walk in and have a discussion with him. I cannot even conceive of doing this with one of my state senators. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2021, 09:29:44 AM

It would insulate Senators from lobbyists, largely, and the need to campaign broadly.  It would be a version of campaign finance reform.

But it won't happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 16, 2021, 09:44:03 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 16, 2021, 09:28:27 AM

When an elected official is accountable to an entity, that is the entity that he/she will work to please. Currently, out elected officials are sucking up to their party leaders or things like committee assignments and party funds for their elections, all the while ignoring the people that were elected to serve. They are also for the most part, inaccessible to their constituents.

If they were sent by the state legislature, at the very least they would be looking to work in the states interest as that is most likely what the state legislature would demand. Also, I can easily call my elected state representative and voice my concerns. I can drive to his office and pretty much walk in and have a discussion with him. I cannot even conceive of doing this with one of my state senators.

They'll still have to suck up for the committee assignments. And they'll still have to suck up to party leaders, just different ones (state party leaders). They will not have to suck up for party funds, though your state representative will have to do that considerably more. 

The second bolded part ... maybe? I mean, we're basically saying the voter cannot divine the interests of the state, but the elite politician can, and won't just insert their own interests and party's interests in place of state's interest. And that is a supposition I'm highly skeptical of. 

The first sentence, I guess is where we differ. You feel that the idea of direct voting does not make a politician accountable to the people voting. Beyond all the machinations, this seems the central thesis. And I can't really get on board there, especially when the alternative is simply making them more accountable to other politicians, ones that have shown me little indication they're working that hard for their state's interest anyway. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on November 16, 2021, 10:03:48 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 15, 2021, 07:06:48 PM

if it kills any clubs over $500 each retail, golf balls more then $50 per box, green fees over $150 per 18, country club memberships over $20,000 per year

hell yes
it won't kill it, long term, they would pay the additional tax
just like the yacht industry
they just didn't like it and told the folks that levied the tax

No they bought the yachts from other countries until the luxury tax was repealed in 1993.  They did not pay the additional tax

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 16, 2021, 10:06:13 AM

@bayareabadger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1571) The theory is that state legislatures want to be important and have power to do stuff. They lose relative power when powers and decision-making that were once the province of the individual states get drawn into the federal government in Washington DC. 

The 17th was part of the Progressive Era when the progressives knew that the best way to effect the changes they wanted to see was to do so at the federal level, rather than battling it state legislature by state legislature. They capitalized on the fact that state legislatures "played politics" with Senate appointments on a regular basis and enacted the 17th as a more "democratic" measure to give control of the Senate to the voters directly, rather than state legislatures.

People who are a little more of the libertarian bent view the 16th (which funded the federal government) and the 17th (which took state legislatures out of the equation in determining how much power was in Washington rather than in their own hands) as two critical levers which led to the giant federal behemoth that we have today. 

The theory is that repealing the 17th would lead to state governments pushing Senators to devolve power from Washington DC back to individual statehouses, and that it might reduce the size of the federal government and allow states to set their own policies on matters that we today see as federal. I'm not sure I believe it would actually make much of a difference, personally, but that's the theory behind opposition to the 17th. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 16, 2021, 10:15:01 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 16, 2021, 10:06:13 AM

The theory is that repealing the 17th would lead to state governments pushing Senators to devolve power from Washington DC back to individual statehouses, and that it might reduce the size of the federal government and allow states to set their own policies on matters that we today see as federal. I'm not sure I believe it would actually make much of a difference, personally, but that's the theory behind opposition to the 17th.

I buy that and think it's interesting. I just don't really see how it solves some of the problems folks have floated as being fixed by it. Then again, it's all mostly theoretical, a salve that can never be tested. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 16, 2021, 11:12:54 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 16, 2021, 08:19:32 AM

A printer? But why?

And may I suggest the retirement starts with those two things going over the railing.

It's much easier to transport this printer than it is to transport a monitor. I need to see visuals as I'm solving things in CAD. This printer weighs 4 pounds.


(https://i.imgur.com/ltBqW1v.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 16, 2021, 12:14:17 PM

I think he was asking, why are you doing work on your vacation? I echo the sentiment!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 16, 2021, 12:17:23 PM

When you own a business, you never shut it off until you retire.

Yes, we are all evil people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 16, 2021, 12:20:35 PM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2-QxhxWTUkY

SEC shorts.   Priceless 😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 16, 2021, 01:06:29 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 16, 2021, 12:14:17 PM

I think he was asking, why are you doing work on your vacation? I echo the sentiment!

Heh, I actually was asking about a printer. My main guess was printing emails like some old school folks do. The answer was illuminating, in that its a reminder that even those Badge is a business owner, he's an engineer who owns a business, not a business person who owns an engineering company. The difference is subtle, bit notable. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 16, 2021, 01:54:23 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 16, 2021, 01:06:29 PM

Heh, I actually was asking about a printer. My main guess was printing emails like some old school folks do. The answer was illuminating, in that its a reminder that even those Badge is a business owner, he's an engineer who owns a business, not a business person who owns an engineering company. The difference is subtle, bit notable.

Well then you were asking the wrong question, nerd.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 16, 2021, 02:23:59 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 16, 2021, 01:54:23 PM

Well then you were asking the wrong question, nerd.

You're just jealous of how well protected my pocket is (he says to a man who he thinks does something nerdy for a living)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 16, 2021, 07:12:29 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 16, 2021, 11:12:54 AM

It's much easier to transport this printer than it is to transport a monitor. I need to see visuals as I'm solving things in CAD. This printer weighs 4 pounds.


(https://i.imgur.com/ltBqW1v.png)

I ride my printer like a 400 lb offensive lineman rides his Vespa.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 16, 2021, 08:01:22 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 16, 2021, 07:12:29 PM

I ride my printer like a 400 lb offensive lineman rides his Vespa.

(https://i.imgur.com/qycYzWH.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 16, 2021, 09:09:07 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 16, 2021, 08:01:22 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/qycYzWH.png)

😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 16, 2021, 09:34:10 PM

Big mistake not reaching for the epidural to Vax up Bielema.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 16, 2021, 10:27:07 PM

mainstream media: white guy Kyle Rittenhouse is a racist for shooting 3 other white guys. 

https://twitter.com/blue_falafel/status/1460670334173167623?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 16, 2021, 11:58:04 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 16, 2021, 10:27:07 PM

mainstream media: white guy Kyle Rittenhouse is a racist for shooting 3 other white guys.

https://twitter.com/blue_falafel/status/1460670334173167623?s=20

Please don't get into this crap. Plenty of people down in Area 51 would be more than happy to discuss it. Nothing good will come from introducing it here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on November 17, 2021, 04:24:04 AM

That’s one young man who went looking for trouble and found plenty. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on November 17, 2021, 04:29:56 AM

This whole “gotta find more ways to tax the rich” is just silly. The federal govt does not need more money.  More money is the problem, not the solution. They would just waste it. They need to be forced to balance the budget first. 

I love when Democrats are in power Republicans will scream about spending but when they gain control they suddenly get quiet and run the deficits up all the same. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2021, 05:46:54 AM

This is our 8th time cruising with Azamara, and one of my favorite things they do is called white night. Everyone dresses up in white, and they have these giant Weber grills set up to cook seafood - mainly lobster tails.

I just came to find out that there is no more "white night".

It is now "bright night".

Oh well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2021, 07:00:23 AM

I'm sure "we" here can devise some creative and clever solutions to government, but none of them are practicable, and none of are going to happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 17, 2021, 07:22:37 AM

When I woke up, the area around a couple of my teeth hurt. I have the sensation that some teeth are slowly shifting as I clench my jaw when I sleep. 

It’s probably hypochondria but it’s also very unsettling.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2021, 07:26:37 AM

I went to the dentist yesterday with tooth pain, expecting the worst.  Apparently I've been grinding my teeth.  He shaved a bit off the one hurting and said I was good to go.

It does feel better today, I'm going to get a mouth guard.  I suspect I'm clinching them when I lift and a nerve got annoyed.  It was getting painful.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2021, 08:23:52 AM

EV start-up Lucid's market value blows past Ford at more than $89 billion as shares skyrocket (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/16/lucid-ceo-says-the-company-could-eventually-be-valued-like-tesla.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2021, 08:35:29 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 16, 2021, 11:58:04 PM

Please don't get into this crap. Plenty of people down in Area 51 would be more than happy to discuss it. Nothing good will come from introducing it here.

It's very difficult for me. Having witnessed the riots, looting and fires, I still have bad dreams about the whole thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 17, 2021, 08:35:50 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 17, 2021, 08:23:52 AM

EV start-up Lucid's market value blows past Ford at more than $89 billion as shares skyrocket (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/16/lucid-ceo-says-the-company-could-eventually-be-valued-like-tesla.html)

Did anyone say pump-and-dump?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2021, 08:49:17 AM

At that high a valuation, I think it would be tough to P&D.  I'm going to put in a stop loss order on my shares.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 17, 2021, 10:04:52 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on November 17, 2021, 08:35:50 AM

Did anyone say pump-and-dump?

short the shit out of LUCID and RIVIAN if you can imo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2021, 10:09:02 AM

A lot of folks shorted TSLA and that at the time looked to me like a good bet.  It wasn't (until very recently).  Now there is no way I can see for all these car companies to have this sort of valuation.  We buy X new cars a year, and the profit is $Y more or less.  Suddenly we have three new companies with huge valuations and F and GM have gone up some as well.  

I think F and GM can compete in this space pretty effectively.  I bought some F based on what I saw with the EF-150.  I bought Lucid with some play money and I'm nearing a 2 bagger in a month on that.  It's still play money, and in my IRA.  It's up some today, Rivian is down.

Being added to market indices can impact the price of a stock also.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 17, 2021, 10:10:38 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2021, 08:35:29 AM

It's very difficult for me. Having witnessed the riots, looting and fires, I still have bad dreams about the whole thing.

I am not really getting into the politics of it all. I really don't think it's political either.

TV Networks love to race-bait, use fear porn, hyperbole, and flat out lie to get clicks and eyeballs. No different here. I just think it's amazing that a white person is labeled a racist for shooting other white people. LOL.

Anybody who has watched the trial- the prosecutors just might be the worst pieces of shit I've ever seen- but that's par for the course with a lot of prosecutors. People don't realize how awful, egregious, and honestly unethical most prosecutors really are. They push too hard and bend if not break laws all the time- they are not out for justice- they are out for high conviction rates- bc it makes them look good and it helps them in their political future.

I have enjoyed the judge eviscerating this slimeball stupid prosecutor on many occasions. If only every judge was as adversarial with prosecution as this one- it would be a great thing for all Americans- we would have a better criminal justice system.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 17, 2021, 10:12:17 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 17, 2021, 10:09:02 AM

A lot of folks shorted TSLA and that at the time looked to me like a good bet.  It wasn't (until very recently).  Now there is no way I can see for all these car companies to have this sort of valuation.  We buy X new cars a year, and the profit is $Y more or less.  Suddenly we have three new companies with huge valuations and F and GM have gone up some as well. 

I think F and GM can compete in this space pretty effectively.  I bought some F based on what I saw with the EF-150.  I bought Lucid with some play money and I'm nearing a 2 bagger in a month on that.  It's still play money, and in my IRA.  It's up some today, Rivian is down.

Being added to market indices can impact the price of a stock also.

Tesla is a completely different beast than these phony worthless that will never turn a profit companies like Lucid or Rivian. 

Tesla got into the game 15 years before all the other majors were getting into EV's. They are ALL getting into EV's now. The little guys like Rivian and Lucid have no shot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 17, 2021, 10:14:32 AM

some little guys would like to be purchased by ford or gm for their technology or their bright minds

big payday for the share holders 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 17, 2021, 10:15:18 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 17, 2021, 10:14:32 AM

some little guys would like to be purchased by ford or gm for their technology or their bright minds

big payday for the share holders

we'll see. I doubt it though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2021, 10:18:58 AM

They aren't little guys if their valuation is the same or greater than GM or F.

One fascinating thing to me was the meme stocks driven up by retail investors.  That understandably appears to have abated of late, but it was hot for a while.  "Story stocks" go up because they are going up.  I tend to think crypto is similar, I bought some ETHE on that basis also, and it has gone up.

I allocate 2-3% for trying to snag a hot stock, and at times it works.  It about covers the times it doesn't.  I think Lucid has produced a good EV, time will tell if they can deliver the product consistently and make any money.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 17, 2021, 10:23:52 AM

Tesla is the ONLY pure EV company that actually has a chance at remaining a viable concern as a standalone automaker. They had first-mover advantage in the market and they've actually been able to scale somewhat. I still have concerns about them, but I also feel like Tesla has a chance at being the "iPhone" of EVs... I.e. even though Android has a huge market advantage (73% share) in mobile handsets shipped worldwide, Apple has a cult following and it's the "fashionable" phone to own. I think there's going to be a demographic that no matter how many times you point out technology advantages that other brands have, to certain people if it's not a Tesla, why bother owning it? 

Rivian and Lucid are acquisition targets (once their valuations collapse to sane levels) IMHO. They'll get snapped up when some legacy automaker realizes they're too far behind in EV to do it internally and they need a technology injection. You can't come into this game late and catch up to Tesla, catch up to the Chinese, or even catch up to the legacy automakers that are finally giving EV a serious try. Too many problems with scale. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 17, 2021, 10:29:27 AM

agreed

one of the "other" small new comers might make it long term, but its a helluva longshot

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2021, 10:30:11 AM

The market can remain insane longer than you can remain short.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 17, 2021, 10:30:33 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 17, 2021, 10:23:52 AM

Tesla is the ONLY pure EV company that actually has a chance at remaining a viable concern as a standalone automaker. They had first-mover advantage in the market and they've actually been able to scale somewhat. I still have concerns about them, but I also feel like Tesla has a chance at being the "iPhone" of EVs... I.e. even though Android has a huge market advantage (73% share) in mobile handsets shipped worldwide, Apple has a cult following and it's the "fashionable" phone to own. I think there's going to be a demographic that no matter how many times you point out technology advantages that other brands have, to certain people if it's not a Tesla, why bother owning it?

Rivian and Lucid are acquisition targets (once their valuations collapse to sane levels) IMHO. They'll get snapped up when some legacy automaker realizes they're too far behind in EV to do it internally and they need a technology injection. You can't come into this game late and catch up to Tesla, catch up to the Chinese, or even catch up to the legacy automakers that are finally giving EV a serious try. Too many problems with scale.

agree 100%

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2021, 11:41:50 AM

I've noted before how impressed I was with the specs on the EF-150.  I don't know who could do any better right now.  GM probably is close.

There is a lot of money in trucks and SUVs and vans based on trucks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 17, 2021, 11:56:21 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 17, 2021, 08:49:17 AM

At that high a valuation, I think it would be tough to P&D.  I'm going to put in a stop loss order on my shares.

A company that has no assets, no income, and no profitability in sight, yet are worth more than Ford and GM, blue chips of blue chips? They're already pumped. The question is, who holds the most shares to unload before the dump? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2021, 12:02:13 PM

My guess is employees hold the most shares, that is common in start ups recently gone public.

And I think pump and dump only works for smaller valuation stocks, though in the day of the meme stock it's possible to do so with retail investors with smaller companies like AMC, which is still remarkably high.  

I obviously don't know if Lucid is a success, but I do think it is a possibility.  I see Rivian has dropped 15% today.  The same could happen with Lucid, or worse.

Stock valuations on "theme stocks" don't often make any sense, to me anyway.  But I've noticed they can go UP UP UP for quite a few months, or years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 17, 2021, 12:26:52 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 17, 2021, 11:41:50 AM

I've noted before how impressed I was with the specs on the EF-150.  I don't know who could do any better right now.  GM probably is close.

There is a lot of money in trucks and SUVs and vans based on trucks.

What, you don't prefer the Cybertruck to the F-150 Lightning? :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2021, 12:35:18 PM

Are we headed to having two Power 5 conferences and 3 others that aren't?

P2 plus Meh 3?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 17, 2021, 12:36:38 PM

so...YouTube taking massive public backlash and heat over their announcement that they will be removing the dislike button- a feature that has been part of the platform from day one. IMO this is clearly just a thinly veiled orchestrated attempt to protect the "establishment" after just about every official White House YouTube video and almost every CNN/MSNBC video gets ratio'd to death (this means far more dislikes than likes). Apparently have to protect the establishment from any kind of embarrassment at all costs.

Anyways, the founder of YouTube Jawed Karim is protesting this move- calling it stupid and pleading with Google to reverse course on this. Here's an idea pal: maybe you shouldn't have sold YouTube to Google for a measly $65 million. It's easily worth hundreds of billions of dollars. You sold it to the devil for a fraction of what it'd be worth if you just held out. Look at the Snapchat guy- that weirdo turd Zuckerberg tried to buy Snapchat from him for $3 billion- he told Zuck to F**k off- and now he's worth $10.5 billion and his company has a market cap of almost $90 billion. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 17, 2021, 12:37:45 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 17, 2021, 12:35:18 PM

Are we headed to having two Power 5 conferences and 3 others that aren't?

P2 plus Meh 3?

You can't talk football in here! This is the "In other news..." thread!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 17, 2021, 12:39:22 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/9E3gFWn.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 17, 2021, 12:43:21 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 17, 2021, 12:39:22 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/9E3gFWn.png)

I watched the complete movie a few days ago with my daughter

she had never even heard of it

what a delight it was it see how much she enjoyed it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 17, 2021, 12:44:10 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 17, 2021, 12:39:22 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/9E3gFWn.png)

Thanks, 94...

If anyone didn't get the joke the first time, you've made sure it can't go unnoticed. :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 17, 2021, 12:46:06 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 17, 2021, 12:37:45 PM

You can't talk football in here! This is the "In other news..." thread!

Compared to what is being discussed in here "FOOTBALL" is other news

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 17, 2021, 01:13:45 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 17, 2021, 12:02:13 PM

My guess is employees hold the most shares, that is common in start ups recently gone public.

And I think pump and dump only works for smaller valuation stocks, though in the day of the meme stock it's possible to do so with retail investors with smaller companies like AMC, which is still remarkably high. 

I obviously don't know if Lucid is a success, but I do think it is a possibility.  I see Rivian has dropped 15% today.  The same could happen with Lucid, or worse.

Stock valuations on "theme stocks" don't often make any sense, to me anyway.  But I've noticed they can go UP UP UP for quite a few months, or years.

folks had held Rivian stock sold and bought Lucid??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 17, 2021, 01:17:42 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 17, 2021, 12:44:10 PM

Thanks, 94...

If anyone didn't get the joke the first time, you've made sure it can't go unnoticed. :57:

My goodness did somebody piss in your wheaties this morning?  You should probably check into that...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 17, 2021, 01:22:21 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 17, 2021, 12:43:21 PM

I watched the complete movie a few days ago with my daughter

she had never even heard of it

what a delight it was it see how much she enjoyed it

So, so, good. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2021, 01:25:18 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 17, 2021, 01:13:45 PM

folks had held Rivian stock sold and bought Lucid??

I have no idea how many may have done this, there is no way to know.  


LCID: 52.47 -3.05 (-5.49%) (cnbc.com)

S (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/LCID?tab=ownership)omething called Public Investment Fund apparently holds 62% of outstanding stock.  


The Public Investment Fund is the sovereign wealth fund of Saudi Arabia. It is among the largest sovereign wealth funds in the world with total estimated assets of at least $500 billion. It was created in 1971 for the purpose of investing fund…

(http://javascript:void(0);)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 17, 2021, 03:56:50 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 17, 2021, 01:25:18 PM

I have no idea how many may have done this, there is no way to know. 


LCID: 52.47 -3.05 (-5.49%) (cnbc.com)

S (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/LCID?tab=ownership)omething called Public Investment Fund apparently holds 62% of outstanding stock. 


The Public Investment Fund is the sovereign wealth fund of Saudi Arabia. It is among the largest sovereign wealth funds in the world with total estimated assets of at least $500 billion. It was created in 1971 for the purpose of investing fund…

(http://javascript:void(0);)

Ruler of Saudi Arabia is a trillionaire.

Kinda funny when they say Musk or Bezos is richest man in the world. MBS has wealth those guys could only dream of. This is a guy who spent $310 million on a house in France and another $353 million on a painting that may or may not have been a Da Vinci.

So long as this world runs on crude oil and they are the worlds low cost producer high volume provider of crude - whoever rules that country will be the richest mfer in the entire world. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2021, 04:30:32 PM

One thing common in startups is compensation to employees in the form of options, which may be only actionable in 3-5 years.  I don't think those options are included in the accounting of shares outstanding.  I'd guess a fair number of employees just became millionaires, on paper.  And then some.

I was just reminded that Fisker is also in the pool doing something with EVs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 17, 2021, 04:47:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 17, 2021, 04:30:32 PM

One thing common in startups is compensation to employees in the form of options, which may be only actionable in 3-5 years.  I don't think those options are included in the accounting of shares outstanding.  I'd guess a fair number of employees just became millionaires, on paper.  And then some.

I was just reminded that Fisker is also in the pool doing something with EVs.

FYI they're no longer Fisker... They were acquired and now operate under the brand name Karma Automotive. 

Their HQ is <4 miles from my house. 

I didn't even realize this, but apparently they're PHEV, not pure BEV...

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a36164817/2021-karma-gs-6-drive/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2021, 04:55:30 PM

Fisker.【2021 and 2022 Fisker Car Models】Discover The Price Of All the New Fisker Vehicles In The USA | CarBuzz (https://carbuzz.com/cars/fisker)

Fisker Launches 2023 Ocean Electric Crossover, 25,000 Headed To U.S. Next Year (chron.com) (https://www.chron.com/news/article/Fisker-Launches-2023-Ocean-Electric-Crossover-16628851.php)

The current iteration of Fisker Inc. was born in 2016, several years after the collapse of Fisker Automotive and the plug-in hybrid Karma grand touring sedan, a project that lives on as the Chinese-owned Karma Automotive. Fisker Inc. made a splash with at the 2018 Consumer Electronics Show with the Emotion electric sedan—an overly ambitious effort that may or may not materialize. In 2020, Fisker returned to CES with the Ocean.

Unlike the high-dollar Emotion, the five-passenger Ocean is targeted at the mass market with an attainable price point. As Henrik Fisker and every entrepreneur in the last 130 years that has ever tried to launch a car company knows, the design concept is the easy part. Turning it into a real product is something else entirely.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 17, 2021, 05:02:22 PM

Interesting, thanks. I didn't know that Fisker had actually remained alive after divesting all the Karma stuff. 

I guess he found some investors to give him a second chance lol...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 17, 2021, 05:15:43 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 17, 2021, 03:56:50 PM

$353 million on a painting that may or may not have been a Da Vinci.

I should start shooting paint balls against canvas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 17, 2021, 05:22:33 PM

you should do something constructive

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 17, 2021, 05:24:59 PM

Like Golf?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 17, 2021, 05:34:10 PM

sure, speaking of golf..... (glad you brought it up)

went out yesterday, high of around 68 degrees, windy.  Played a tough course and shot 40-39 to break 80.  one birdie, one double

a few Bud heavies, a couple shots of fireball and a nice cigar

forecast doesn't look good, pulled the battery on the golf cart

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 17, 2021, 05:35:38 PM

Hope you have an electric start on the Blower

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 17, 2021, 05:36:38 PM

speaking of Budweiser

I'm off to the local small town pub for a few brews and a few broasted chicken wings

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p526x296/257785116_400962585012137_7464764003039125141_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=eeZHDQFDq9gAX9p479G&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=7cc4fe6a2e78e243b053af66ccd63bfd&oe=6199CE19)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 17, 2021, 05:37:41 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 17, 2021, 05:35:38 PM

Hope you have an electric start on the Blower

I do.


Craftsman


has handled every snow drift in the driveway for 5 or 6 seasons
no fear

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2021, 06:09:03 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 17, 2021, 05:02:22 PM

Interesting, thanks. I didn't know that Fisker had actually remained alive after divesting all the Karma stuff.

I guess he found some investors to give him a second chance lol...

I think they just call it Fisker, it's really Chinese something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 17, 2021, 06:33:51 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 17, 2021, 05:36:38 PM

speaking of Budweiser

I'm off to the local small town pub for a few brews and a few broasted chicken wings

you should do something constructive

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2021, 06:35:12 PM

SEC Shorts - Georgia fans run into hope again - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSQsScAK8sk)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 17, 2021, 06:35:49 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 17, 2021, 05:37:41 PM

I do.


Craftsman


has handled every snow drift in the driveway for 5 or 6 seasons
no fear

I have a '79 TORO with a Tecumseh Sno-King Engine,been rebuilt once, pull start.Just finished changing the oil

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 17, 2021, 06:50:52 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 17, 2021, 06:35:12 PM

SEC Shorts - Georgia fans run into hope again - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSQsScAK8sk)

👍😂.   This is great.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 17, 2021, 08:11:11 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 17, 2021, 06:35:49 PM

I have a '79 TORO with a Tecumseh Sno-King Engine,been rebuilt once, pull start.Just finished changing the oil

I have nothing as we Texans dont need it thank you very much  :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 18, 2021, 09:05:14 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 17, 2021, 08:11:11 PM

I have nothing as we Texans dont need it thank you very much  :)

I don't know, lh320.  It's 55 degrees in the ATX right now, with a projected high of only 63.  That's downright WINTERY!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2021, 09:13:34 AM

youse Texans better hunker down

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 18, 2021, 09:20:33 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 18, 2021, 09:05:14 AM

I don't know, lh320.  It's 55 degrees in the ATX right now, with a projected high of only 63.  That's downright WINTERY!

yep time to break out the light jackets

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 18, 2021, 09:23:57 AM

59°F here right now and sunny, going to be a nice day indeed.  I should do some running.  I didn't on vacation and my legs are sore now after yesterday.

Leaves are a bit past optimum.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 18, 2021, 09:25:59 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 18, 2021, 09:23:57 AM

59°F here right now and sunny, going to be a nice day indeed.  I should do some running.  I didn't on vacation and my legs are sore now after yesterday.

Leaves are a bit past optimum.

Yup this is my favorite time of year to run.  Cool crisp mornings, in the low-mid-50s, are pure heaven.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2021, 09:31:24 AM

I walked to and from the bar last night, about a half mile each way, around 30 degrees

no running - nothing was chasing me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 18, 2021, 09:44:35 AM

Yeah 30 degrees is NOT comfortable running.  Not until I hit maybe the 5th mile.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 18, 2021, 09:46:28 AM

I do run at 30°F but the breathing starts to be cold.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 18, 2021, 09:57:05 AM

50 on the morning walk with the dog, but should turn out to be a nice 72 today. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 18, 2021, 09:59:13 AM

Inside the 1940 GM Hydra-Matic, The First Modern Automatic Transmission | Mac's Motor City Garage (macsmotorcitygarage.com) (https://www.macsmotorcitygarage.com/inside-the-1940-gm-hydra-matic-the-first-modern-automatic-transmission/?fbclid=IwAR0cSYfO_UVoKJsBZN0SHYT-0VypuNT4hYVJsmHBfeLFHXytvPXsKOyOfhQ)

(https://i.imgur.com/mMqziaa.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 18, 2021, 02:16:14 PM

My stop loss order on Lucid triggered today so I'm out, decent profit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 19, 2021, 11:47:06 AM

https://apple.news/AV7QNrERqSw6w8UotL5Z2uA

Ha!   A German Shepherd dog that lives better than mine lol

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 19, 2021, 04:10:30 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 19, 2021, 11:47:06 AM

https://apple.news/AV7QNrERqSw6w8UotL5Z2uA

Ha!  A German Shepherd dog that lives better than mine lol

this is literally the stupid thing I have ever heard, and I have no idea how it's even legal or possible. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 19, 2021, 04:11:17 PM

Kyle Rittenhouse acquitted of all charges. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 19, 2021, 04:34:04 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/TTBqupt.jpg)

The place improved a lot since I left.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 19, 2021, 08:26:09 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 19, 2021, 04:11:17 PM

Kyle Rittenhouse acquitted of all charges.

now the burning and looting begins

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 19, 2021, 09:03:22 PM

And the status quo continues.

He literally sought out violence.  He killed people.  But it's fine.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 19, 2021, 09:39:19 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 19, 2021, 09:03:22 PM

And the status quo continues.

He literally sought out violence.  He killed people.  But it's fine. 

You clearly have no idea of the facts or if you do you are ignoring them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 19, 2021, 10:03:07 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 19, 2021, 09:03:22 PM

And the status quo continues.

He literally sought out violence.  He killed people.  But it's fine. 

tell me you haven't been following the trial without telling me you haven't been following the trial....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 19, 2021, 10:17:29 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 19, 2021, 09:39:19 PM

You clearly have no idea of the facts or if you do you are ignoring them

not sure it's his fault- the media pretty much for year plus were lying/twisting this thing- I started watching the trial closely- and anyone else that did saw right away that the entire narrative/lies the media were pushing in this case were just flat out false.

The whole "crossing the state lines" thing was twisting the reality of the situation grossly. Kid lived 1 mile from the Wisconsin border and his father, aunts, uncles, cousins, friends lived in Kenosha- he had a job as a lifeguard in Kenosha- and Kenosha is about 15 mins away from were he lived with his mother in Illinois. Nor did he cross the state lines with a gun. The gun was already in Wisconsin. This was a kid who had been a lifeguard, wanted to be a medic, wanted to be a firefighter, wanted to be a police officer- he was clearly someone that wanted to help others.

Kid should've never been down there- but he wasn't down there seeking out violence. The kid was there cleaning up graffiti, helping people that were injured, and he was putting out fires. It didn't turn violent until he put out a fire that some psycho pedophile started and the psycho pedophile started screaming the N word at him and was chasing after him like a lunatic and threw a bag with some chains in it at Rittenhouse- kid tried fleeing and this psychotic pedophile chased him down and nearly caught up to Rittenhouse and got the gun from him. They should've given Rittenhouse a medal for removing that piece of shit from this earth- not tried him for murder.

Rittenhouse kept running away towards police after he shot the disgusting pedophile dead, he fell down and someone else started attacking him- kicked Rittenhouse in the face while Rittenhouse was on the ground and then started trying to beat Rittenhouse with a skateboard over the head while Rittenhouse was still on the ground- so he defended himself and shot this person.

Third guy he shot admitted under oath in court that Rittenhouse did not shoot him until he advanced towards Rittenhouse and pointed a gun at Rittenhouse.

I knew none of this- and I did not even know the people he shot were white- nor that all 3 of them had rap sheets a mile long- and that the first guy he shot and killed Rosenbaum was a FIVE TIME CONVICTED PEDOPHILE who served 10 years in prison for performing oral sex on and sodomizing 5 children aged 9 to 11. This disgusting pervert was also out on bail after being arrested for beating his fiance and had literally just been released from a mental hospital that morning. The disgusting dead pedophile was breaking stuff, destroying property, and lighting shit on fire. He got what was coming to him- and it's completely insane to me that he was ever allowed out of prison. He should've been given the death penalty for what he did to those 5 children. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 19, 2021, 10:25:26 PM

The person who should have been on trial is the Mayor of that town.

He stopped the police from coming in and protecting the citizens and their property

He just sat back and let the rioters burn that city down

He even refused federal help when it was offered

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 19, 2021, 10:28:22 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 19, 2021, 10:25:26 PM

The person who should have been on trial is the Mayor of that town.

He stopped the police from coming in and protecting the citizens and their property

He just sat back and let the rioters burn that city down

He even refused federal help when it was offered

agree 100%. 

how do you let your city burn and do nothing?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 20, 2021, 12:44:45 AM

SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP!!!

For effs sake, everyone made up their mind on this before the trial even started. The only outcomes were vindication and outrage, each side falling into one or the other depending on the verdict. 

If you want to debate this bullshit, Area 51 is down at the bottom of the site, in hell, which is appropriate. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 20, 2021, 01:04:20 AM

As a former prosecutor in WI and defense attorney, imo, this thing shouldn't have been charged in this fashion at all.  Numerous errors by Kenosha Co imo at the charging phase.  If charged differently, I thinkthey had a better case for certain 2nd degree homicide charges under WI law.  , nevermind some dubious direct questioning of their own witnesses, mainly the 3rd man shot, who survived.  Inexcusable performance by ADA w that witness.  The case was lost at that point imo.  The ADA basically did the defense attorneys cross for him getting his past mental health into the record when the Judge ruled against the defendant during a pre trial motion.    They couldn't recover.  Couple that with his own words wrt to his own handling of the handgun, it was over. 

Defendant was quite good on the stand by the way, and I'm not talking about the tears.  He was so poised and never broken on his state of mind.

Media coverage pretty shameful on this. 

I also think Rittenhouse was an idiot for doing what he did.    My biggest complaint remains with local and state authorities allowing their cities to be overrun with idiots and 'peaceful protests'  we can't feign surprise when we discover that there are people who take measure such as Rittenhouse, in an effort to protect something, that the city county and state don't have the fortitude have the courage to do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 20, 2021, 01:10:07 AM

Quote from: MarqHusker on November 20, 2021, 01:04:20 AM

I also think Rittenhouse was an idiot for doing what he did. My biggest complaint remains with local and state authorities allowing their cities to be overrun with idiots and 'peaceful protests'  we can't feign surprise when we discover that there are people who take measure such as Rittenhouse, in an effort to protect something, that the city county and state don't have the fortitude have the courage to do.

agree. he shouldn't have been there. bad idea. the pieces of shit breaking stuff, committing acts of violence, looting, and starting fires shouldn't have been there either. that is not protesting. people have the right to protest peacefully and demonstrate. they don't have the right to get violent, destroy property, and commit arson. the minute any of that shit happens- national guard & police should've been there to crack skulls, kick ass, and take names.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 20, 2021, 07:45:26 AM

I've been on juries, the issues can be complex, but the finding is not that he was innocent, or that he was smart, or that he was right.  The finding is he was NOT GUILTY under the law, beyond a reasonable doubt.  It's a pretty high burden, one shared by all twelve jurors who paid far more attention than I.

A person can be stupid, do stupid things, and even have broken the law and still be not guilty.  Unanimous decision, by twelve jurors.  If you  have a better system, I'd enjoy hearing about it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 20, 2021, 09:21:09 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 20, 2021, 07:45:26 AM

I've been on juries, the issues can be complex, but the finding is not that he was innocent, or that he was smart, or that he was right.  The finding is he was NOT GUILTY under the law, beyond a reasonable doubt.  It's a pretty high burden, one shared by all twelve jurors who paid far more attention than I.

A person can be stupid, do stupid things, and even have broken the law and still be not guilty.  Unanimous decision, by twelve jurors.  If you  have a better system, I'd enjoy hearing about it.

what you say is true CD but if you review the video footage and read the witness testimony it goes way beyond finding someone not guilty 

He was not guilty not only beyond a shadow of a doubt

He was not guilty period and this trial should have never happened

now we are going to see just how much wrong our President and the media did probably in a court

words have meaning and the media should be ashamed

its interesting that this keeps being played as a racial incident but everybody involved was white

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 20, 2021, 09:33:50 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 20, 2021, 09:21:09 AM

its interesting that this keeps being played as a racial incident but everybody involved was white

interesting isn't a strong enough term imo
divisive is a term that gets used by many in the media, but they can't seem to understand the media is the most divisive 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 20, 2021, 09:58:56 AM

THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) — Police opened fire on protesters in rioting that erupted in downtown Rotterdam around a demonstration against COVID-19 restrictions late Friday night. The Dutch city’s mayor called it “an orgy of violence.”

Police said that two rioters were hospitalized after being hit by bullets and investigations were underway to establish if they were shot by police. The condition of the injured rioters was not disclosed.

Officers arrested 51 people, about half of them minors, police said Saturday afternoon. One police officer was hospitalized with a leg injury sustained in the rioting, another was treated by ambulance staff and “countless” others suffered minor injuries.

Mayor Ahmed Aboutaleb told reporters in the early hours of Saturday morning that “on a number of occasions the police felt it necessary to draw their weapons to defend themselves” as rioters ran rampage through the port city’s central shopping district, setting fires and throwing rocks and fireworks at officers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 20, 2021, 10:00:19 AM

The only legal finding was not guilty,  anything else is just an opinion by anyone on the street.

I was more intrigued by the various positions people took which were very predictable based on their politics instead of the law, and how the media portrayed various aspected of it.

NPR did a pretty good job in my view summarizing the trial and the case.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 20, 2021, 10:08:33 AM

In a sane world the looters and rioters would have been on trial, and Rittenhouse given a medal of honor. 

Luckily for him, the jurors were from the Kenosha area, and are quite likely jealous of Rittenhouse for getting to flush a few of those turds. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 20, 2021, 10:13:56 AM

Quote from: MarqHusker on November 20, 2021, 01:04:20 AM

As a former prosecutor in WI and defense attorney, imo, this thing shouldn't have been charged in this fashion at all.  Numerous errors by Kenosha Co imo at the charging phase.  If charged differently, I thinkthey had a better case for certain 2nd degree homicide charges under WI law.  , nevermind some dubious direct questioning of their own witnesses, mainly the 3rd man shot, who survived.  Inexcusable performance by ADA w that witness.  The case was lost at that point imo.  The ADA basically did the defense attorneys cross for him getting his past mental health into the record when the Judge ruled against the defendant during a pre trial motion.    They couldn't recover.  Couple that with his own words wrt to his own handling of the handgun, it was over. 

Defendant was quite good on the stand by the way, and I'm not talking about the tears.  He was so poised and never broken on his state of mind.

Media coverage pretty shameful on this. 

This phrases well a lot of what I thought. Badly handled on the prosecutor side, and while I think there were numerous things the kid did that I would consider bad and maybe worthy of punishment, I don't think there was an excellent legal tool to deal with it. 

I think the media coverage was poor, but I also think that reflects the capitalist nature of media and how we consume it. If someone gives use staid, calm analysis, people just don't go for it. They look elsewhere for the spicy thing that explains how UNFAIR it is to their side. (Football has good comparisons there. I can explain to someone why a play-call that didn't go their way was fine, but they really want to be mad at someone, and that's the vessel into which the anger flows)

(I think the judge did have a moment of showing his backside. Not in a biased way, as much as making a joke that was simply not going to help the perception questions that seemed to be bothering him)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 20, 2021, 10:14:34 AM

If that guy with a gun had just shot Rittenhouse after he killed the homeless guy, it would have saved everyone a lot of time and angst.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 20, 2021, 10:14:52 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 20, 2021, 10:00:19 AM

The only legal finding was not guilty,  anything else is just an opinion by anyone on the street.

I was more intrigued by the various positions people took which were very predictable based on their politics instead of the law, and how the media portrayed various aspected of it.

NPR did a pretty good job in my view summarizing the trial and the case.

I understand what the jury instructions were CD

and Im saying (yes its my opinion) the evidence and witness testimony made it pretty much of a slam dunk

the prosecution just never had a case.  Hell they had to invent gun laws that didnt exist to try to make something stick

complete waste of time and money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 20, 2021, 10:57:12 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 20, 2021, 09:58:56 AM

THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) — Police opened fire on protesters in rioting that erupted in downtown Rotterdam around a demonstration against COVID-19 restrictions late Friday night. The Dutch city’s mayor called it “an orgy of violence.”

Police said that two rioters were hospitalized after being hit by bullets and investigations were underway to establish if they were shot by police. The condition of the injured rioters was not disclosed.

Officers arrested 51 people, about half of them minors, police said Saturday afternoon. One police officer was hospitalized with a leg injury sustained in the rioting, another was treated by ambulance staff and “countless” others suffered minor injuries.

Mayor Ahmed Aboutaleb told reporters in the early hours of Saturday morning that “on a number of occasions the police felt it necessary to draw their weapons to defend themselves” as rioters ran rampage through the port city’s central shopping district, setting fires and throwing rocks and fireworks at officers.

This is unpossible.  I've been informed countless times, that the enlightened peoples of Europe are the Gold Standard for handling complex social issues.  And that only the stupid, fat, redneck "Muh Freedoms" types here in the US, would ever resort to fomenting such chaos and unrest.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 20, 2021, 10:58:37 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 20, 2021, 10:14:34 AM

If that guy with a gun had just shot Rittenhouse after he killed the homeless guy, it would have saved everyone a lot of time and angst.

Certainly wasn't for a lack of trying. 

Wasn't as quick on the draw though. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 20, 2021, 11:20:50 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 20, 2021, 10:58:37 AM

Certainly wasn't for a lack of trying.

Wasn't as quick on the draw though.

Shoot first, talk later, save everyone the Twitter drama

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 20, 2021, 11:39:22 AM

Shoulda woulda coulda. 

Instead he couldn't even let go of the gun because the nerves connecting his hand to his brain were completely severed. Lol. 


(https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/08/Rittenhouse-2.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&w=1024)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 20, 2021, 11:46:59 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 20, 2021, 11:39:22 AM

Shoulda woulda coulda.

Instead he couldn't even let go of the gun because the nerves connecting his hand to his brain were completely severed. Lol.


(https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/08/Rittenhouse-2.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&w=1024)

Too bad. Instead launched a million dumb Twitter takes about some dumb teenager with a gun obsession. Guy could have saved our brains with a good shot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 20, 2021, 11:50:04 AM

Where Rittenhouse is really lucky is that he was able to afford competent legal defense, and didn't have to settle for some "public defender" left wing activist that would have been working for the prosecution instead of his client. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 20, 2021, 11:54:42 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 20, 2021, 11:50:04 AM

Where Rittenhouse is really lucky is that he was able to afford competent legal defense, and didn't have to settle for some "public defender" left wing activist that would have been working for the prosecution instead of his client.

It worked out for him. He can to CPAC and call Big Bird a communist and talk about how afraid he is of big cities

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 20, 2021, 11:57:30 AM

Beats the Hell out of what his assailants are gonna be doing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 20, 2021, 12:02:37 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 20, 2021, 11:57:30 AM

Beats the Hell out of what his assailants are gonna be doing.

I dunno I'm sure the guy who lived is getting laid on a regular basis. And his arm doesn't work so he probably doesn't even have to do anything in return.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 20, 2021, 12:16:36 PM

NFTs are silly.

https://www-cnet-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/bored-ape-yacht-club-explaining-the-nft-craze/?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D

Change my mind.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 20, 2021, 12:19:35 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 20, 2021, 12:16:36 PM

NFTs are silly.

https://www-cnet-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/bored-ape-yacht-club-explaining-the-nft-craze/?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D

Change my mind.

Nothing makes me feel older than when I see stuff like this and have no idea what it is or why anyone would want to know what it is

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 20, 2021, 12:31:45 PM

Nebraska’s unemployment rate fell to a mere 1.9% last month, which was the lowest any state has reached since U.S. data collection began in 1976.

The October rate reported by Nebraska’s labor department and the Bureau of Labor Statistics marks the first time a state’s unemployment rate dropped below 2%. Spokespeople for both agencies confirmed that Nebraska’s rate is the lowest recorded nationally.

Nebraska has maintained its status as the state with the lowest rate through much of the pandemic. It’s 0.1 percentage points lower than Nebraska’s September rate of 2%.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 20, 2021, 12:42:12 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 20, 2021, 11:50:04 AM

Where Rittenhouse is really lucky is that he was able to afford competent legal defense, and didn't have to settle for some "public defender" left wing activist that would have been working for the prosecution instead of his client.

You're broken.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 20, 2021, 12:44:27 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 20, 2021, 12:19:35 PM

Nothing makes me feel older than when I see stuff like this and have no idea what it is or why anyone would want to know what it is

You don't want to spend $200K for a JPG of a "bored ape"?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 20, 2021, 12:45:23 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 20, 2021, 07:45:26 AM

I've been on juries, the issues can be complex, but the finding is not that he was innocent, or that he was smart, or that he was right.  The finding is he was NOT GUILTY under the law, beyond a reasonable doubt.  It's a pretty high burden, one shared by all twelve jurors who paid far more attention than I.

A person can be stupid, do stupid things, and even have broken the law and still be not guilty.  Unanimous decision, by twelve jurors.  If you  have a better system, I'd enjoy hearing about it.

It's a great system.
But the judge shouldn't be giving the defendant a BJ during the trial.


I'll forever be flabbergasted that we have liberal judges and conservative judges and everyone is just okay with that.  
Absolutely no attempt at regulation or the employment of moderate-only judges with no slant either way.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 20, 2021, 12:46:22 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 20, 2021, 12:19:35 PM

Nothing makes me feel older than when I see stuff like this and have no idea what it is or why anyone would want to know what it is

What's an NFT?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 20, 2021, 12:47:34 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 20, 2021, 12:44:27 PM

You don't want to spend $200K for a JPG of a "bored ape"?

Not only that, but I heard the story of the guy who lost like 10 millions dollars of cryptocurrency because he couldn't remember his password. This feels like something that would happen to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 20, 2021, 12:49:57 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 20, 2021, 12:47:34 PM

Not only that, but I heard the story of the guy who lost like 10 millions dollars of cryptocurrency because he couldn't remember his password. This feels like something that would happen to me.

That sort of happened to me.
Back when EA Sports lost to Ed O'Bannon, they cut everyone a check who bought NCAA football video games (for some reason).  So I get a check for a couple of hundred dollars for playing video games!
Then I lost it.
I found it about 2 years later half-disentigrated under my passenger car seat.  

S-M-R-T

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 20, 2021, 12:53:01 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 20, 2021, 12:46:22 PM

What's an NFT?

It's a non-fungible token.

Basically it's a way to authenticate digital art such that there's only one, and maintain unfalsifiable records of ownership via blockchain.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 20, 2021, 12:58:43 PM

Like a watermark on paper?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 20, 2021, 01:08:31 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 20, 2021, 12:58:43 PM

Like a watermark on paper?

Similar, but that could also be faked. 

Imagine you're buying a Mickey Mantle rookie card. You want to be 100% sure that card is real and not fake. The better our technology gets, the more likely it is that a fake will be SO good that it evades any ability we have to determine legitimacy. 

In this case the determination of legitimacy and ownership is effectively impossible to fake. 

It looks like these trade on Ethereum, and assuming the NFT is also on the Ethereum blockchain, in order to fake the blockchain without detection, you would have to own >50% of all Ethereum in the entire world. 

But what makes it silly is that anyone would spend $200K for a cartoon ape. It's not a Monet, or even a Manet, or even a Mickey Mantle rookie card. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 20, 2021, 01:15:37 PM

Well, that turned about as grotesque as expected. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 20, 2021, 01:20:51 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 20, 2021, 12:53:01 PM

It's a non-fungible token.

Basically it's a way to authenticate digital art such that there's only one, and maintain unfalsifiable records of ownership via blockchain.

I am most skeptical about how this evolves. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 20, 2021, 01:24:46 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 20, 2021, 01:20:51 PM

I am most skeptical about how this evolves.

The technology of blockchain is important. The idea of making ownership of unique assets non-falsifiable is going to be important. 

The application of most NFTs are just stupid and evidence of people with too much money not having anything useful to to do with it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on November 21, 2021, 08:09:02 PM

LeBron, still a little bitch.  Love the player, but man what a little bitch.  Sucker punch a guy in the eye, and then hide behind your teammates instead of answering for it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 21, 2021, 08:12:53 PM

Didn't see this,Tonite?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 21, 2021, 08:22:41 PM

don't even love the player

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 21, 2021, 08:24:20 PM

Quote from: ELA on November 21, 2021, 08:09:02 PM

LeBron, still a little bitch.  Love the player, but man what a little bitch.  Sucker punch a guy in the eye, and then hide behind your teammates instead of answering for it

Hey he is a middle aged man at this point can't be throwing hands with the young pups

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on November 21, 2021, 08:37:43 PM

He didn't mind throwing an elbow and then getting out of Dodge

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 21, 2021, 08:44:11 PM

Well that's the middle aged way - get your shot in and get out. The man has a bald spot the size of a dinner plate you can't get mad at him for being smart

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 21, 2021, 08:51:03 PM

but for being a sucker punching coward

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 21, 2021, 09:27:41 PM

Can you guys take this to tic toc or something?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 21, 2021, 09:29:33 PM

Quote from: ELA on November 21, 2021, 08:09:02 PM

LeBron, still a little bitch.  Love the player, but man what a little bitch.  Sucker punch a guy in the eye, and then hide behind your teammates instead of answering for it

he is the biggest whiny, phony, hypocrite I've ever seen. I cannot stand the guy. I call him LeBitch, LeKaren, LeChina, or LeWhiner. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 21, 2021, 09:30:00 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 21, 2021, 09:27:41 PM

Can you guys take this to tic toc or something?

what's a tic toc? are you confused? do you need a tic tac or something? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 21, 2021, 09:34:49 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 20, 2021, 11:50:04 AM

Where Rittenhouse is really lucky is that he was able to afford competent legal defense, and didn't have to settle for some "public defender" left wing activist that would have been working for the prosecution instead of his client.

 it's very sad, but true. not sure on the left wing activist stuff- but otherwise i agree. the public defenders are too cozy with the prosecution and they get their clients to take bs deals from over-zealous if not corrupt prosecutors that they shouldn't take all the time- and this overwhelmingly affects poor brown & black people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 21, 2021, 09:35:14 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 20, 2021, 12:16:36 PM

NFTs are silly.

https://www-cnet-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/bored-ape-yacht-club-explaining-the-nft-craze/?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D

Change my mind.

beyond silly. dumbest shit I've ever heard of- and I've heard of a lot of dumb shit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 21, 2021, 09:41:00 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 20, 2021, 12:45:23 PM

It's a great system.
But the judge shouldn't be giving the defendant a BJ during the trial.

I'll forever be flabbergasted that we have liberal judges and conservative judges and everyone is just okay with that. 
Absolutely no attempt at regulation or the employment of moderate-only judges with no slant either way. 

I believe this judge was put on the bench by a Democratic governor and that the judge himself is a registered Democrat. Giving a BJ to the defendant? Hyperbole much? IF the judge seemed sympathetic to the defendant, I think it was purely because he was getting SUPER pissed- and rightfully so I might add- with the incompetent, stupid, and possibly even corrupt prosecutor. 

It was a GOOD thing that he was adversarial with the prosecution and undressing him publicly and screaming at him when he was crossing lines that he knows damn well he isn't suppose to be crossing. Prosecutors were aiming for a mistrial imo- and they were complete incompetent scumbags.

US needs more judges like this guy who are hostile to prosecution....it's a GOOD thing if you want a more fair, honest judicial system.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 21, 2021, 09:49:37 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 20, 2021, 10:14:34 AM

If that guy with a gun had just shot Rittenhouse after he killed the homeless guy, it would have saved everyone a lot of time and angst.

which guy was homeless? the pedophile/woman beater or the woman beater? sounding more and more like this kid did the world a favor and took out some trash...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 21, 2021, 09:52:10 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 20, 2021, 11:54:42 AM

It worked out for him. He can to CPAC and call Big Bird a communist and talk about how afraid he is of big cities

communism is dead. big bird is an antifa pussy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 21, 2021, 10:28:03 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 21, 2021, 09:30:00 PM

what's a tic toc? are you confused? do you need a tic tac or something?

https://youtu.be/iP6XpLQM2Cs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2021, 07:14:02 AM

If your side lost a close game, you might blame the refs, or the judge in this case.

Sour grapes etc.

I need a haircut this morning.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 22, 2021, 07:37:54 AM

If there are sides when it comes to judges and vigilantes, then I quit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2021, 07:58:52 AM

There clearly were "sides" in this trial, in social media.  It's not atypical at all when a trial has "overtones" relevant to society at large.  Judges should not have a side other than justice, nor should refs, but the people assessing their conduct will claim they had a side.  As for vigilantes, I think the term inherently implies a side of some sort.

Some of my liberal friends posted they were leaving the country as a result of this verdict.  They won't of course, but they posted that, and other things, showing they clearly voiced a side.  Some of their information that formed said "side" was factually incorrect of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2021, 08:08:03 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/q2SLuaZ.jpg)

A coupe years back at COTA driving some bad A cars.  Who expected Cadillac to make such beasts?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2021, 08:08:42 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/4gNkIya.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2021, 08:15:23 AM

 (https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=679820543399557)
SEC Roll Call - Week 12 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3DHqGWvZgc)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2021, 08:54:19 AM

In the AP poll, the highest ranked teams with 0,2,3,4 losses are all SEC teams.  Ohio State edged Alabama for the 1 loss spot, but not in the coaches poll.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 22, 2021, 09:15:48 AM

(https://media.tenor.com/images/e4ae71099eeeccdaaf1495af637ac4c7/tenor.gif)   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 22, 2021, 09:19:03 AM

It remains kind of funny to me that this whole sport was structured around sports writer and coach lucky voting forever. Like, that would never fly these days. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 22, 2021, 09:23:43 AM

Well we can try to convince the powers that be to let us do it.I'm sure that would go much smoother

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 22, 2021, 09:32:58 AM

well, the coaches poll started in 1950, the AP of course was 1936.  Decades of football before they were originated.

the committee is the same thing, simply just a different and smaller group of folks voting

nothing has changed, except the computer polls influence has come and gone

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 22, 2021, 09:34:13 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 22, 2021, 08:08:03 AM

A coupe years back at COTA driving some bad A cars.  Who expected Cadillac to make such beasts?

it's got a chevy small block in it

gonna be a beast!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2021, 11:42:25 AM

Video: Secrets of the Gnome Rotary Engine | Mac's Motor City Garage (macsmotorcitygarage.com) (https://www.macsmotorcitygarage.com/video-secrets-of-the-gnome-rotary-engine/?fbclid=IwAR3r-_fbQHHW_1QOtCK1pX5OeWWMixFeMm3-WiymZv6I08RYoJ9Hv_pqHWE)

I've seen this in a museum near Paris, that company is now a large enterprise called Saffron Group.  It's a neat approach.  By spinning the cylinders you get cooling inherent to the design.  The "V" engines require water cooling which adds weight and complexity to aircraft.



(https://i.imgur.com/3s48CKv.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2021, 01:44:40 PM

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/woman-becomes-only-female-conductor-of-major-us-orchestra/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2021, 02:56:59 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/zoNR23G.jpg)

Photo taken in 1912 of an influential project, rather amazing for its time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 22, 2021, 07:43:24 PM

King Kong's pen, obviously.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 22, 2021, 08:56:28 PM

cutting the world in half

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 22, 2021, 09:41:17 PM

LeBitch suspended 1 game. Guy he punched in the face suspended 2 games. LMAO. The NBA is such a god damn joke.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 22, 2021, 09:57:14 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 22, 2021, 09:41:17 PM

LeBitch suspended 1 game. Guy he punched in the face suspended 2 games. LMAO. The NBA is such a god damn joke.

Well to be fair that jobber got all in his feelings about it. Should have knee capped Lebron on a rebound and not gotten all dramatic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 22, 2021, 10:13:23 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 22, 2021, 09:57:14 PM

Well to be fair that jobber got all in his feelings about it. Should have knee capped Lebron on a rebound and not gotten all dramatic.

I wish he would've beat the living shit out of LaKaren. Would've been the best thing NBA has put on tv since Jordan retired. NBA f**#king sucks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on November 23, 2021, 09:51:13 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 22, 2021, 09:57:14 PM

Well to be fair that jobber got all in his feelings about it. Should have knee capped Lebron on a rebound and not gotten all dramatic.

Jobber?

First round pick last year, All-Rookie 2nd team.  He's one of the better young players in the league

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 23, 2021, 09:55:06 AM

Quote from: ELA on November 23, 2021, 09:51:13 AM

Jobber?

First round pick last year, All-Rookie 2nd team.  He's one of the better young players in the league

this is all besides the point lol. if you watch the replay- LePussy clearly punched the dude on purpose. It was a bitch move. And then he went and hid behind his team when the dude he punched started going wild. 

Completely blows my mind that the guy who got punched gets MORE suspension time than the guy who punched him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 23, 2021, 10:42:07 AM

The 10 Most Tax-Friendly States for Middle-Class Families

To help you compare the expected tax bite on ordinary Americans in all 50 states and the District of Columbia, we estimated the overall income, sales, and property tax burden in each state for a hypothetical married couple with two children, combined wages of $77,000, and $3,000 of other income. Based on our findings, we put together the following list of the 10 most tax-friendly states for middle-class families (the most-friendly state is listed at the end). If you're moving to one of these states to take a new job or for other reasons, there's a good chance your overall state taxes will go down after the move.

https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/state-tax/601612/most-tax-friendly-states-for-middle-class-families-2021 (https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/state-tax/601612/most-tax-friendly-states-for-middle-class-families-2021)

9. Arizona

8. California ???

State Income Tax Range: 1% (on taxable income up to $9,325 for single filers; up to $18,650 for joint filers) to 13.3% (on taxable income over $1 million for single filers; over $1,250,738 for joint filers)
Average Combined State and Local Sales Tax Rate: 8.82%
Median Property Tax Rate: $729 per $100,000 of assessed home value
Wait, what? California is a tax-friendly state? Yes…for middle-class families. If you're a rich person, California taxes will cut deep into your earnings. But for other people, the Golden State's tax hit isn't really all that bad.

Our hypothetical middle-class family's income tax bill was the second-lowest among states that impose an income tax. Everyone makes a big deal about California's 13.3% income tax rate, which is the highest top rate in the nation, but only a small percentage of Californians pay that rate. In fact, with 10 different tax rates, California has a very progressive income tax system. Our middle-income family, for instance, only fell into the state's 6% tax bracket. That's not too bad.

Although property taxes are sky high in Silicon Valley and certain other parts of the states, property taxes are below average for the state overall. For a $300,000 home in California, the statewide estimated property tax is only $2,187, which is the 16th-lowest amount in the country.

Sales tax is one area where Californians might pay more than residents of other states. The California state sales tax rate is 7.25%, which is the highest state rate in the nation. However, local sales taxes – up to 2.5% – aren't very high. The Tax Foundation calculates the average combined state and local rate to be 8.828%, which is high.


7. Washington

6. North Dakooota

5. Alaska

4. Tennessee

3. Florida

State Income Tax Range: None
Average Combined State and Local Sales Tax Rate: 7.01%
Median Property Tax Rate: $830 per $100,000 of assessed home value
Florida is another state with no income tax (are you starting to notice a trend here?). That keeps the overall state and local tax burden down for middle-class families and everyone else. However, other taxes in the Sunshine State are just average when compared to other locations.

For instance, property taxes are right around the national average. For a $300,000 home in Florida, our hypothetical middle-class family's estimated annual property tax bill is $2,490. That's pretty much in the middle when compared to other states.

The state's average combined state and local sales tax rate is middle-of-the-road, too. It's 7.01%, according to the Tax Foundation. That's based on a 6% state tax rate and local rates that can be as high as 2%.


2. Nevada

1. Wyoming
State Income Tax Range: None
Average Combined State and Local Sales Tax Rate: 5.39%
Median Property Tax Rate: $575 per $100,000 of assessed home value
Congratulations, Wyoming – you're the most tax-friendly state for middle-class families! First, there's no income tax in Wyoming. As with many of the other states on this list, that's the driving force behind the state's favorable ranking. However, what makes Wyoming unique is that it also has both low sales taxes and property taxes.

The state sales tax rate in Wyoming is a modest 4%. Municipalities can tack on up to 2% more, which isn't that much. As a result, the state's combined state and average local sales tax rate is the eighth-lowest in the country, according to the Tax Foundation.

People who move to these parts like to own a lot of land, and low property taxes make that dream affordable. The property tax on our hypothetical middle-class family's $300,000 home in Wyoming would be about $1,725, which is tied the 10th-lowest property tax amount in our rankings.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 23, 2021, 11:16:46 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 23, 2021, 10:42:07 AM

hypothetical married couple with two children, combined wages of $77,000, and $3,000 of other income.

https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/state-tax/601612/most-tax-friendly-states-for-middle-class-families-2021 (https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/state-tax/601612/most-tax-friendly-states-for-middle-class-families-2021)

8. California ???

State Income Tax Range: 1% (on taxable income up to $9,325 for single filers; up to $18,650 for joint filers) to 13.3% (on taxable income over $1 million for single filers; over $1,250,738 for joint filers)
Average Combined State and Local Sales Tax Rate: 8.82%
Median Property Tax Rate: $729 per $100,000 of assessed home value
Wait, what? California is a tax-friendly state? Yes…for middle-class families. If you're a rich person, California taxes will cut deep into your earnings. But for other people, the Golden State's tax hit isn't really all that bad.

Our hypothetical middle-class family's income tax bill was the second-lowest among states that impose an income tax. Everyone makes a big deal about California's 13.3% income tax rate, which is the highest top rate in the nation, but only a small percentage of Californians pay that rate. In fact, with 10 different tax rates, California has a very progressive income tax system. Our middle-income family, for instance, only fell into the state's 6% tax bracket. That's not too bad.

Although property taxes are sky high in Silicon Valley and certain other parts of the states, property taxes are below average for the state overall. For a $300,000 home in California, the statewide estimated property tax is only $2,187, which is the 16th-lowest amount in the country.

Sales tax is one area where Californians might pay more than residents of other states. The California state sales tax rate is 7.25%, which is the highest state rate in the nation. However, local sales taxes – up to 2.5% – aren't very high. The Tax Foundation calculates the average combined state and local rate to be 8.828%, which is high.

Okay, this is utter bullshit.

Issue is, that every word of it is true... If you don't live in the 4 counties around Los Angeles, San Diego County, anywhere near the Bay Area, or Sacramento. If that's the case, then the tax rate is actually pretty reasonable and you can live a middle-class life. And in those areas, if you actually make $77K/year, the tax hit won't be absolutely killer.

If you live where I live, and you're a married couple with two children making $77K/year, good luck trying to live a "middle class" lifestyle. You're not going to find that $300K house. Any 3bdr house in LA County or Orange County is probably going to be >$600K right now. Any 3bdr house near Silicon Valley is probably $1M. Property taxes are low as a percentage of home value, but that's offset by the fact that home values are insane. If you bought your house 30 years ago, due to Prop 13 your taxes will still be low. But how many couples with 2 children bought a house 30 years ago when they were kids themselves? 

The good news is that wages are very high here, which helps to offset the cost of living. But it contradicts the point of the article, which is that you're somehow living a "middle class" life on $77K/year and living in a $300K house, and that's what your taxes are based on.

Irvine is a bigger city in Orange County. Median household income is $105K. Where I live (Mission Viejo), it's $118K. In Santa Clara County as a whole (basically a good portion of Silicon Valley) it's $124K. And because you make more to achieve a similar standard of living, your tax hit gets proportionately higher. 

Good luck living a middle class life on $77K in any moderately desirable area of California. Anyone working in Orange County, Santa Clara County, etc making $77K is commuting in from a HELL of a lot further away.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 23, 2021, 11:40:36 AM

Quote from: ELA on November 23, 2021, 09:51:13 AM

Jobber?

First round pick last year, All-Rookie 2nd team.  He's one of the better young players in the league

Well I've been watching a lot of old WWE lately. He can be upgraded to jobber of the stars. He's the Brooklyn Brawler.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 23, 2021, 12:19:34 PM

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=3105893279733354&ref=sharing



University of Nebraska-Lincoln Department of Physics and Astronomy
Y1estf6S5er81pdcfay at 791:2129 rAeMg  ·
Professor Tim Gay, "I've learned and taught so much about the unique magic of the American football." via NFL Films. Dr. Gay was featured in the NFL Films series for his work studying the physics of football. Nebraska College of Arts and Sciences
https://fb.watch/9rrL3DPEkU/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 23, 2021, 07:49:06 PM

So now our great President is sending 50 million barrels of oil from the National Reserve to China and India

This represents about 8% of our current reserve

This is happening during surging gas prices here in the US

So not only does he shut down oil pipeline construction and make federal lands not available for oil drilling but now is giving away our reserves

I just hope we are still around when the mid terms come

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 23, 2021, 08:09:26 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 23, 2021, 07:49:06 PM

So now our great President is sending 50 million barrels of oil from the National Reserve to China and India

This represents about 8% of our current reserve

This is happening during surging gas prices here in the US

So not only does he shut down oil pipeline construction and make federal lands not available for oil drilling but now is giving away our reserves

I just hope we are still around when the mid terms come

Yeah the country will probably implode from people so eager to buy stuff and travel places

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 23, 2021, 08:18:58 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 23, 2021, 07:49:06 PM

So now our great President is sending 50 million barrels of oil from the National Reserve to China and India

This represents about 8% of our current reserve

This is happening during surging gas prices here in the US

So not only does he shut down oil pipeline construction and make federal lands not available for oil drilling but now is giving away our reserves

I just hope we are still around when the mid terms come

I'm hoping he charged China and India market prices

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 23, 2021, 08:32:58 PM

It's VERY interesting.

A quick search suggests this is a coordinated action between many nations to release reserves to combat high gas prices.

ONE particular news outlet says they're going to China and India. Haven't seen it anywhere else.

Care to guess which news outlet said it??? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 23, 2021, 08:37:47 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 23, 2021, 08:18:58 PM

I'm hoping he charged China and India market prices

even if he did its not what the Federal Reserve was set up for

This is serious stuff

If the oil cartel decides to lower production our best hope is our reserve

why would we favor China's best interests over the US

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 23, 2021, 08:39:20 PM

if we make a good enough profit, it might not favor China, it might favor the US

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 23, 2021, 08:40:17 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 23, 2021, 08:32:58 PM

It's VERY interesting.

A quick search suggests this is a coordinated action between many nations to release reserves to combat high gas prices.

ONE particular news outlet says they're going to China and India. Haven't seen it anywhere else.

Care to guess which news outlet said it???

Ive seen it on several sources

again I have no problem selling stuff to China but not from our reserve

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 23, 2021, 08:43:02 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 23, 2021, 08:39:20 PM

if we make a good enough profit, it might not favor China, it might favor the US

why would China even agree to this if they werent getting a discount

this could turn out to be very bad

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 23, 2021, 08:43:55 PM

I'm doubting the oil ever gets to China

but, I doubt the media every day

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 23, 2021, 08:44:54 PM

in a world market, what difference does it make where the oil ends up?

It's on the market and driving down prices overall

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 23, 2021, 08:47:14 PM

Biden is literally a dipshit. All he's got to do is call Mohammad Bin Salman, kiss the guys ass a little bit and make a state trip to Saudi Arabia. Biden refuses to talk to the guy, and MBS is talking it personal.

There are a lot of factors all compounding at once which is driving up inflation and driving up costs. Skyrocketing oil prices is one big factor. The one ruler in the world who can flip that switch and start to reverse it- and President shit for brains still refuses to call him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 23, 2021, 08:54:35 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 23, 2021, 08:44:54 PM

in a world market, what difference does it make where the oil ends up?

It's on the market and driving down prices overall

it doesn't really. what matters is the price of the oil and that the oil trade is denominated in US dollars. when Nixon delinked the dollar from gold in early 1970s and de facto backing it in oil via agreement with Saudi Arabia to standardize the sale of oil in US dollars.

this agreement helped give us hegemony over the entire world and it allows us a special position as the reserve currency of the world- which is a gigantic advantage no other country in the world enjoys.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 23, 2021, 09:02:54 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 23, 2021, 08:09:26 PM

Yeah the country will probably implode from people so eager to buy stuff and travel places

what world do you live in brother? people are broke as a f***kin' joke out here right now. And they are all quitting their jobs.

There's a small class of people that have all the money- then there's a slightly larger class of people that have some money- and then basically everyone else is broke af. the US has morphed into an oligarchy where the gap between the haves and have nots has grown at an exponential level. the pandemic and US gov't passing cares act has only made the wealth inequality gap widen to historic levels- levels that surpass and were not even seen in the gilded age. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 24, 2021, 12:29:18 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 23, 2021, 08:40:17 PM

Ive seen it on several sources

again I have no problem selling stuff to China but not from our reserve

The oil market is relatively liquid, as I understand it. It's all oil, so it's just supply and demand. If we release oil, it might help lower the price overall. From a quick read, doesn't seem like it'll be that effective, but it's an act of doing something. 

Seems like some basic econ, not all that spicy, I'm afraid. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 24, 2021, 01:54:08 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 24, 2021, 12:29:18 AM

The oil market is relatively liquid, as I understand it. It's all oil, so it's just supply and demand. If we release oil, it might help lower the price overall. From a quick read, doesn't seem like it'll be that effective, but it's an act of doing something.

Seems like some basic econ, not all that spicy, I'm afraid.

Biden has caused some of the gas price problem when he took us from self sufficient to having to depend on the oil cartel

He needs to restore exploration to where it was under Trump and finish the pipeline he stopped being constructed putting 5000 out of work

Leave our reserves alone unless we need them for the US

I fear this is only the first step with more to follow

Instead of lowering our oil reserves he needs to enforce our southern border and quit importing illegals and shipping them all over the country

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 24, 2021, 05:59:19 AM

longhorn is afraid it will be bad because he's told to be afraid.  Fear-mongering works on him.

And when a Dem is the president, he's to blame for high gas prices, but not when a Rep is in office.  

He probably thinks when a character dies in a movie, the actor is actually dead now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 24, 2021, 06:58:10 AM

Quote

Instead of lowering our oil reserves he needs to enforce our southern border and quit importing illegals and shipping them all over the country

Nothing helps the labor supply like locking up the labor

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2021, 07:50:56 AM

US production is on the rise again, slowly, it's not a simple matter of turning a dial of course.  This 50 million barrels is about 2.5 days of US usage, and oil prices were up 3% or so yesterday (the news had been anticipated).  I see it as optics, not something that will actually influence oil prices materially.  Neither would have a go ahead on some oil pipeline from Canada.

The truth often is in the middle.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 24, 2021, 08:17:16 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 23, 2021, 08:47:14 PM

Biden is literally a dipshit. All he's got to do is call Mohammad Bin Salman, kiss the guys ass a little bit and make a state trip to Saudi Arabia. Biden refuses to talk to the guy, and MBS is talking it personal.

There are a lot of factors all compounding at once which is driving up inflation and driving up costs. Skyrocketing oil prices is one big factor. The one ruler in the world who can flip that switch and start to reverse it- and President shit for brains still refuses to call him.

1st off the guy can't produce a word let alone a coherent sentence.His handlers would have to slap something together and do a voice over

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2021, 09:07:12 AM

Not since Americans came home from World War II has inflation run through the economy like it is now (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/24/not-since-americans-came-home-from-world-war-ii-has-inflation-run-through-the-economy-like-it-is-now.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 24, 2021, 09:10:52 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 24, 2021, 05:59:19 AM

longhorn is afraid it will be bad because he's told to be afraid.  Fear-mongering works on him.

And when a Dem is the president, he's to blame for high gas prices, but not when a Rep is in office. 

He probably thinks when a character dies in a movie, the actor is actually dead now.

Thats all ya got

sheesh Im dealing with children

if you cant see the harm this Pres is doing your too far gone to save

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2021, 09:13:25 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 23, 2021, 07:49:06 PM

So now our great President is sending 50 million barrels of oil from the National Reserve to China and India...

... in a deal brokered by Hunter ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 24, 2021, 09:13:28 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 24, 2021, 09:10:52 AM

Thats all ya got

sheesh Im dealing with children

if you cant see the harm this Pres is doing your too far gone to save

If you can't view all of reality in terms of Democrats v. Republicans, there is no hope

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 24, 2021, 09:14:57 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 24, 2021, 07:50:56 AM

US production is on the rise again, slowly, it's not a simple matter of turning a dial of course.  This 50 million barrels is about 2.5 days of US usage, and oil prices were up 3% or so yesterday (the news had been anticipated).  I see it as optics, not something that will actually influence oil prices materially.  Neither would have a go ahead on some oil pipeline from Canada.

The truth often is in the middle.

the thing is we are really doing nothing right now to help ease gas prices

we need to increase oil production by favoring exploration instead of discouraging it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 24, 2021, 09:17:10 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 24, 2021, 09:13:28 AM

If you can't view all of reality in terms of Democrats v. Republicans, there is no hope

I see reality every day

He cant even get through a news conference without making some kind of stupid statement and then refuses to answer questions

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2021, 09:18:50 AM

The various oil companies don't really need Presidential encouragement.  They do what they do based on profits obviously.  They got slammed last year and shut things down as quickly as they could.  They are restarting now, it takes some time and demand got out ahead of production, globally.  I surmise OPEC doesn't want to open the spigots, which they could do quickly, because they could find they had done that just as demand eased and supply overall increased.  US production would be slower to increase in any event with any President.

We consume about 20 million barrels a day, which is an astounding figure really and shows the difficulty of replacing that with ... something else.  A barrel is about 44 gal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 24, 2021, 09:20:20 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 24, 2021, 06:58:10 AM

Nothing helps the labor supply like locking up the labor

why is the only way of adding to our labor supply importing illegals

I have nothing against immigrants who are legal

do it the legal way not sneaking them in at 2 in the morning

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 24, 2021, 09:25:44 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 24, 2021, 09:18:50 AM

The various oil companies don't really need Presidential encouragement.  They do what they do based on profits obviously.  They got slammed last year and shut things down as quickly as they could.  They are restarting now, it takes some time and demand got out ahead of production, globally.  I surmise OPEC doesn't want to open the spigots, which they could do quickly, because they could find they had done that just as demand eased and supply overall increased.  US production would be slower to increase in any event with any President.

We consume about 20 million barrels a day, which is an astounding figure really and shows the difficulty of replacing that with ... something else.  A barrel is about 44 gal.

OPEC will wait until we manage to get our production up (which will only happen when the Reps take the government back) and when that happens they will open up and flood the market to try and put small production companies out of business. 

we need to once again become self sustaining to insure OPEC cant hurt us

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 24, 2021, 09:36:11 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 24, 2021, 09:20:20 AM

why is the only way of adding to our labor supply importing illegals

I have nothing against immigrants who are legal

do it the legal way not sneaking them in at 2 in the morning

The government needs to rebuild the immigration infrastructure so that it doesn't take 10+ years to get through the system. I'm a firm believer in legal immigration as well, but the pace has to pick up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 24, 2021, 09:42:12 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 24, 2021, 09:18:50 AM

I surmise OPEC doesn't want to open the spigots, which they could do quickly, because they could find they had done that just as demand eased and supply overall increased.  US production would be slower to increase in any event with any President.

Biden has been in office almost a year, and he still refuses to even get on the phone and talk to to the crown prince and ruler of Saudi Arabia, MbS. This is preposterous. Trump finessed and kissed the guys ass on the reg, his first official state visit was to Saudi Arabia. Trump would get on the horn with MbS directly on the regular and almost every time Trump asked him to amp up or cut production, MbS obliged. Biden won't even talk to him directly, and when people in his administration asked MbS to amp production he told them to F off. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 24, 2021, 09:43:22 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 24, 2021, 01:54:08 AM

Biden has caused some of the gas price problem when he took us from self sufficient to having to depend on the oil cartel

Again, self-sufficiency isn’t really a thing. It’s a big, flat world market. We don’t produce all the gas the US needs today and then sell off the rest.

Now, the argument can be made that we should work to make ourselves a bigger share of the market, thus putting a dent in the cartel’s ability to influence prices. It’s not likely to be much of a dent, and will involve several rounds of the cartel making life hard on our oil industry.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 24, 2021, 09:47:54 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on November 24, 2021, 09:36:11 AM

The government needs to rebuild the immigration infrastructure so that it doesn't take 10+ years to get through the system. I'm a firm believer in legal immigration as well, but the pace has to pick up.

I agree with this. They have made it stupid hard to immigrate to the US legally. So many of us would not be here today if the same regulations were in place when our ancestors came here in the mid 1800s to early 1900s.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 24, 2021, 09:48:51 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 24, 2021, 09:25:44 AM

OPEC will wait until we manage to get our production up (which will only happen when the Reps take the government back) and when that happens they will open up and flood the market to try and put small production companies out of business.

we need to once again become self sustaining to insure OPEC cant hurt us

would be nice to be off oil completely. would be nice if every house had roof tiles that were actually solar panels and the glass on every high-rise building was a solar panel- and we all had power walls, tesla cars, and charging stations everywhere and build new state of the art nuclear power plants to fill in the gaps.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 24, 2021, 09:50:33 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 24, 2021, 09:43:22 AM

Now, the argument can be made that we should work to make ourselves a bigger share of the market, thus putting a dent in the cartel’s ability to influence prices.

I think the only argument in this particular, current situation- is President shit for brains needs to get on the horn with MbS and practice a little diplomacy and try to build a relationship with the guy- who you know is only one of the most important leaders in the world. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 24, 2021, 09:54:05 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 24, 2021, 09:43:22 AM

Again, self-sufficiency isn’t really a thing. It’s a big, flat world market. We don’t produce all the gas the US needs today and then sell off the rest.

Now, the argument can be made that we should work to make ourselves a bigger share of the market, thus putting a dent in the cartel’s ability to influence prices. It’s not likely to be much of a dent, and will involve several rounds of the cartel making life hard on our oil industry.

we produced more oil then this country used for the first time since WW2 under Trump

Biden immediately put a stop to this

we need to go back to it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 24, 2021, 10:00:09 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on November 24, 2021, 09:36:11 AM

The government needs to rebuild the immigration infrastructure so that it doesn't take 10+ years to get through the system. I'm a firm believer in legal immigration as well, but the pace has to pick up.

We currently have aprox 40 million legal immigrants which makes the US the number 1 in the world for total immigrants

we currently increase that number but 1 million every year

while the immigration law might need to be improved we cant just open the doors with no borders

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 24, 2021, 10:00:27 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 24, 2021, 09:47:54 AM

They have made it stupid hard to immigrate to the US legally. So many of us would not be here today if the same regulations were in place when our ancestors came here in the mid 1800s to early 1900s.

Bull Shit many were sent back to EUROPE,not back over the fence to give it another try.For some sort of affliction of mind or body.When those ships sailed the N.Atlanic it wasn't a slam dunk they'd make the eastern seaboard,hell down in the Carolinas many vessels hung up on reefs as occupants  perished in sight of land.Should they some how make it - opportunity was all that was given them,there were no government safety nets then

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 24, 2021, 10:09:58 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 24, 2021, 10:00:09 AM

We currently have aprox 40 million legal immigrants which makes the US the number 1 in the world for total immigrants

we currently increase that number but 1 million every year

while the immigration law might need to be improved we cant just open the doors with no borders

apparently we can, 1 million a year worth

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2021, 11:12:52 AM

COVID lessened US oil production, significantly.

U.S. Field Production of Crude Oil (Thousand Barrels per Day) (eia.gov) (https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M)

2021 production is higher than it was in the same month in 2020, lower than in 2019 but higher than in 2018.

The drop was due to COVID.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 24, 2021, 11:16:20 AM

as far as we know.....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2021, 11:18:29 AM

I'm sick and tired of everything being blamed on Covid. 

I blame government officials (elected or otherwise) for using Covid as a strategy.

Get on with life already.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2021, 11:29:55 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/X5w9a2y.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 24, 2021, 11:56:12 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2021, 11:18:29 AM

I'm sick and tired of everything being blamed on Covid.

I blame government officials (elected or otherwise) for using Covid as a strategy.

Get on with life already.

True. We should stop using year-over-year economic indicators as a proxy for more bland political back and forth. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 24, 2021, 12:09:13 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2021, 11:18:29 AM

I'm sick and tired of everything being blamed on Covid.

I blame government officials (elected or otherwise) for using Covid as a strategy.

Get on with life already.

Yeah, I can't imagine that a massive decline in personal travel due to COVID might impact oil company plans.

Or that a massive predicted decline in auto sales would cause automakers to cancel/push out semiconductor deliveries and now they're scrambling to get parts.

Or that a bunch of people shutting down / restarting factories producing goods due to COVID might destabilize a complex and interconnected world supply chain not only in finished goods but in the intermediate goods and raw materials needed to produce finished goods. 

Or that a massive drop in international passenger air travel due to COVID would cause a bunch of companies who rely on shipping goods on those planes to have to move them through other avenues (container ship), exacerbating those same supply chain issues. 

It's probably just fake news. It's probably all Biden's fault. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 24, 2021, 12:18:17 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 24, 2021, 12:09:13 PM

Yeah, I can't imagine that a massive decline in personal travel due to COVID might impact oil company plans.

Or that a massive predicted decline in auto sales would cause automakers to cancel/push out semiconductor deliveries and now they're scrambling to get parts.

Or that a bunch of people shutting down / restarting factories producing goods due to COVID might destabilize a complex and interconnected world supply chain not only in finished goods but in the intermediate goods and raw materials needed to produce finished goods.

Or that a massive drop in international passenger air travel due to COVID would cause a bunch of companies who rely on shipping goods on those planes to have to move them through other avenues (container ship), exacerbating those same supply chain issues.

It's probably just fake news. It's probably all Biden's fault.

*Yawn*

You know what is Biden's fault? His lack of diplomacy and trying to curry favors from the most powerful man in the world in the oil bidness...MbS. President F**k-stick shit for brains refuses to pick up the phone and call him or fly out to Saudi Arabia and kiss his ass a little bit and try and get him to play some ball. Asshole won't even acknowledge him and plans to "make him a pariah" - shit for brains own words.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2021, 12:42:51 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 24, 2021, 12:09:13 PM

Yeah, I can't imagine that a massive decline in personal travel due to COVID might impact oil company plans.

Or that a massive predicted decline in auto sales would cause automakers to cancel/push out semiconductor deliveries and now they're scrambling to get parts.

Or that a bunch of people shutting down / restarting factories producing goods due to COVID might destabilize a complex and interconnected world supply chain not only in finished goods but in the intermediate goods and raw materials needed to produce finished goods.

Or that a massive drop in international passenger air travel due to COVID would cause a bunch of companies who rely on shipping goods on those planes to have to move them through other avenues (container ship), exacerbating those same supply chain issues.

It's probably just fake news. It's probably all Biden's fault.

I'm not talking about April 2020. I'm talking about now.

It's endemic and it will be with us forever. Time to f'ing move on.

Now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2021, 12:44:32 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/NAVycjR.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 24, 2021, 12:49:48 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2021, 12:42:51 PM

I'm not talking about April 2020. I'm talking about now.

It's endemic and it will be with us forever. Time to f'ing move on.

Now.

My point is that you [appeared] to be responding to potential impacts that happened in relation to the oil markets that we were discussing. 

My point was that all sorts of things got screwed up due to COVID in 2020, and not just April, and it's going to take a while for those effects to normalize. We all want them to be smooth sailing, but the ripples from the disruptions of 2020 will be with us well into next year [hopefully not so much beyond].

As for your second point that we need to move on as a country/world, which is different than "blaming everything on COVID", I agree. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2021, 01:18:07 PM

I'm not into the oil thing, other than I agree with 320 about being self-sufficient and not stopping pipelines and drilling. 

Of course I don't like paying more for gas, but unlike many, I can still afford it and it doesn't affect my life in any way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 24, 2021, 01:38:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2021, 01:18:07 PM

I'm not into the oil thing, other than I agree with 320 about being self-sufficient and not stopping pipelines and drilling.

Of course I don't like paying more for gas, but unlike many, I can still afford it and it doesn't affect my life in any way.

I dont drive anywhere like I used to so gasoline prices really dont affect me

I also inherited several oil royalty leases and Im cleaning up right now

Wish I wasnt

Id rather have lower gas prices for the good of the country

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 24, 2021, 01:40:23 PM

Don't do something kind unless you can advertise it, right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 24, 2021, 01:41:55 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 24, 2021, 01:40:23 PM

Don't do something kind unless you can advertise it, right?

now run along to the childs table we grownups want to talk

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 24, 2021, 01:42:09 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2021, 11:18:29 AM

I'm sick and tired of everything being blamed on Covid.

Brilliant.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 24, 2021, 01:49:00 PM

I bought gas a couple days ago for $2.97/Gallon

seems inexpensive to me in the big scheme of things

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 24, 2021, 01:52:04 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2021, 01:18:07 PM

I'm not into the oil thing, other than I agree with 320 about being self-sufficient and not stopping pipelines and drilling.

Of course I don't like paying more for gas, but unlike many, I can still afford it and it doesn't affect my life in any way.

the price of crude oil doesn't just affect price of gas. it affects the price of literally everything. everything we buy everywhere costs more to produce & ship when the cost of crude oil goes up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 24, 2021, 01:52:43 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 24, 2021, 01:49:00 PM

I bought gas a couple days ago for $2.97/Gallon

seems inexpensive to me in the big scheme of things

it's not just gas prices that rise when crude goes higher- prices on everything rises.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2021, 01:54:43 PM

Nearly all plastics come from petroleum or NG.  Fertilizer is dependent on NG costs, as is concrete.

The petrochemical industry is amazing to me, they can convert this black gold into so many things, including medicines.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 24, 2021, 01:55:39 PM

and tires

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2021, 02:21:00 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 24, 2021, 01:55:39 PM

and tires

Yes, a fair bit of radial tires is made from natural rubber (and steel or Kevlar, which is derived from oil).  


(https://i.imgur.com/g7PaRYs.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 24, 2021, 02:38:25 PM

tire prices don't seem to go down when the crude oil price falls

just purchased 4 tires for my little pickup truck - $977

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2021, 02:50:55 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 24, 2021, 01:52:04 PM

the price of crude oil doesn't just affect price of gas. it affects the price of literally everything. everything we buy everywhere costs more to produce & ship when the cost of crude oil goes up.

Yep, but, inflation is fake news. 

Can't blame inflation on anyone. Nothing to see here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 24, 2021, 03:03:31 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 24, 2021, 01:49:00 PM

I bought gas a couple days ago for $2.97/Gallon

seems inexpensive to me in the big scheme of things

Got it at 2.95 like to say it's headed your way

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2021, 03:39:16 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 24, 2021, 02:38:25 PM

tire prices don't seem to go down when the crude oil price falls

just purchased 4 tires for my little pickup truck - $977

Most of the price is not related to oil prices.  You have other than oil components, manufacturing costs, shipping, inventory, taxes ...

Shipping is related.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 24, 2021, 03:42:23 PM

I agree, but that didn't stop the price of tires going up substantially years ago when crude prices jumped and gasoline prices spiked

gasoline eventually came back down, tires didn't

probably because of manufacturing costs, shipping, inventory, taxes ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2021, 03:46:36 PM

Well, tire makers generally are not very profitable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 24, 2021, 03:52:27 PM

I'm not feeling badly for them after dropping nearly a grand

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 24, 2021, 04:22:08 PM

Tires are pretty cheap for a Prius. If I still had my old Ranger, I'll bet I could get a set pretty cheap for that too. 

IMHO tire prices haven't gone up so much, as I've started owning vehicles with bigger rims that require fancier tires... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2021, 04:28:40 PM

My 1973 Nova had 14" rims.  My 2018 Caddy had 19" rims, and problems with tires.

Go with smaller rims, 17-18" is just fine, you get nothing beyond that but bad acceleration times.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 24, 2021, 04:33:59 PM

It was 20 yrs ago today that Jim Tressel took the Scarlett & Gray into A.A. and shook the Michigan Monkey off of the Buckeyes backs 26-20.Lifting the Curse of John Cooper

It was 50 years ago Tonite that DB Cooper jumped out of a Boeing 727 - Northwest Orient Flight 305 and into History with $200,000 and never to be seen again - at least by authorities

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 24, 2021, 04:36:41 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 24, 2021, 04:28:40 PM

My 1973 Nova had 14" rims.  My 2018 Caddy had 19" rims, and problems with tires.

Go with smaller rims, 17-18" is just fine, you get nothing beyond that but bad acceleration times.

Yeah but the dubs on my Flex look cooler than 17-18" rims...

...and it ain't wheels keeping that pig from having fast acceleration times :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 24, 2021, 04:39:03 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 24, 2021, 03:42:23 PM

I agree, but that didn't stop the price of tires going up substantially years ago when crude prices jumped and gasoline prices spiked

gasoline eventually came back down, tires didn't

Correct just like about 6-7 yrs ago the price of Beer spiked because of blight in the crop of Hops.The crops rebounded but Beer prices didn't - Bastards

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 24, 2021, 04:41:46 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 24, 2021, 04:39:03 PM

Correct just like about 6-7 yrs ago the price of Beer spiked because of blight in the crop of Hops.The crops rebounded but Beer prices didn't - Bastards

I thought you were allergic to IPA.

Prices shouldn't have spiked in the beers you buy. They barely wave a couple hop cones over the kettle during the boil, not actually put them in there :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 24, 2021, 04:51:41 PM

Ya well hops are a cousin of Cannibis and must be what these beer barons are smoking if they expect us to believe them.I wish DB jumped with a couple under every arm.And my sister bought me 15 pack of Ale - over half are citrus/wheat laced IPAs not bad.Wouldn't buy them save one but not spitting it out either

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 24, 2021, 05:14:25 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 24, 2021, 04:41:46 PM

I thought you were allergic to IPA.

Prices shouldn't have spiked in the beers you buy. They barely wave a couple hop cones over the kettle during the boil, not actually put them in there :57:

Ha!  Well played, sir.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 25, 2021, 09:05:22 AM

Moved from the Covid thread.

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 24, 2021, 02:02:37 PM

We should close this thread, 847 is tired of blaming everything on Covid. 

I don't blame everything on Covid. I'm tired of it being used as a crutch. It's very simple to me. It is now being used as a tool to rule.

Some people like to be controlled. I certainly don't.

And you?

What is your alternative to my advocating that we all move on and live our lives?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 25, 2021, 09:09:56 AM

My life here is pretty much the same as preCOVID.  There are some minor changes that don't bother me.

I think it very clear our drop in oil production was a result of the economic collapse due to the shutdowns due to COVID.  I realize for some they face vaccine mandates and perhaps other restrictions that are onerous, but I'm not affected by any of that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 25, 2021, 09:19:06 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 25, 2021, 09:09:56 AM

My life here is pretty much the same as preCOVID.  There are some minor changes that don't bother me.

I think it very clear our drop in oil production was a result of the economic collapse due to the shutdowns due to COVID.  I realize for some they face vaccine mandates and perhaps other restrictions that are onerous, but I'm not affected by any of that.

I suppose if I were anti-vax my life would be affected.  The very large computer manufacturing company that I work for, is complying with the Federal vaccine requirements for companies of 100+.  Which means they did ask me to provide proof of vaccination.  Not a huge deal for me, but others feel it's an overreach and I can't say I blame them.

Other than that, only minor changes here as well.  Some folks wear masks, some don't.  Very few businesses require them anymore. Bars and restaurants are at full capacity, movie theaters are filling up again.

Other than the skyrocketing inflation and supply chain disruptions (that I'm now estimating won't resolve until the second half of next year), life is pretty much back to normal for us here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 25, 2021, 09:24:24 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/S9LrawY.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 25, 2021, 09:25:25 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 25, 2021, 09:05:22 AM

I don't blame everything on Covid. I'm tired of it being used as a crutch. It's very simple to me. It is now being used as a tool to rule.

Some people like to be controlled. I certainly don't.

And you?

Testify 847 Testify

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 25, 2021, 09:27:32 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 25, 2021, 09:24:24 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/S9LrawY.jpg)

Bushit,they'll find out in the future they were wrong.60 million yrs? Put that thing out you'll burn your fingers - gotta go baste the bird

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 25, 2021, 09:30:18 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 25, 2021, 09:05:22 AM

Moved from the Covid thread.

I don't blame everything on Covid. I'm tired of it being used as a crutch. It's very simple to me. It is now being used as a tool to rule.

Some people like to be controlled. I certainly don't.

And you?

What is your alternative to my advocating that we all move on and live our lives?

Well you know the answer to that.  It’s been painfully obvious for a long time. 

There are folks who believe in freedom with accountability and those who believe in government controlling the people and complete conformity. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 25, 2021, 10:37:36 AM

I understand where 847 is coming from

Covid is one of the biggest threats this country has ever faced and if you allow it to it will completely take over your life

The American people have shown they will not let that happen in spite of those who want to use it as a tool for domination

we are on our way back and anyone who doesnt support living a normal life needs to get the hell out of the way and just let the American people do what they always have and that is to survive and flourish

Im very thankful to be living in this country this Thanksgiving

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 25, 2021, 10:42:25 AM

Amen, brutha.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 25, 2021, 01:34:41 PM

Ditto.

Extremely well said.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on November 25, 2021, 09:58:31 PM

I’m so tired of the damn oil price gas price arguments. Not just on here, every damn forum I’ve been a part of forever. Nobody was bitching last year when oil and gas prices were in the crapper except the oil companies and the shareholders. Exxon had to suspend their 401k for Christ sake. Gas was in the $1-2 range for most of the year. 

The US was either the #2 or #3 oil producing country in the world last time I checked. Yes, we use a lot of oil but we make a lot too. Lots of shit is much more expensive this year vs pre COVID levels. Some of it you’re lucky to even be able to get it. 

I think people give the US president and govt way too much credit and blame for high oil and gas prices. It’s not even so much a supply and demand thing because you really can’t store a meaningful amount. It’s a days and weeks situation. It has to be balanced. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 25, 2021, 10:06:06 PM

Quote from: Gigem on November 25, 2021, 09:58:31 PM

The US was either the #2 or #3 oil producing country in the world last time I checked. Yes, we use a lot of oil but we make a lot too. Lots of shit is much more expensive this year vs pre COVID levels. Some of it you’re lucky to even be able to get it.

I think people give the US president and govt way too much credit and blame for high oil and gas prices. It’s not even so much a supply and demand thing because you really can’t store a meaningful amount. It’s a days and weeks situation. It has to be balanced.

Yuuupppp. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 25, 2021, 11:49:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 25, 2021, 09:05:22 AM

Moved from the Covid thread.

I don't blame everything on Covid. I'm tired of it being used as a crutch. It's very simple to me. It is now being used as a tool to rule.

Some people like to be controlled. I certainly don't.

And you?

What is your alternative to my advocating that we all move on and live our lives?

Do you have any evidence to back up your claims?

I'm sorry, but your frustration level has nothing to do with the reality of the situation.  We've all wanted to move on with our lives from day 1, but that wasn't the best course of action.  I don't know if it is now, but neither do you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 26, 2021, 05:45:15 AM

I believe he voiced an opinion.  It is pretty widely understood this will become endemic at some point, like the common cold, to which it is related.  And yes, we'd all like to return to some form of normalcy.  Where I live, life is pretty normal now, with a few exceptions of no real note, for me anyway, I'm not subject to any mandates.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 26, 2021, 08:59:06 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 25, 2021, 11:49:07 PM

Do you have any evidence to back up your claims?

I'm sorry, but your frustration level has nothing to do with the reality of the situation.  We've all wanted to move on with our lives from day 1, but that wasn't the best course of action. I don't know if it is now, but neither do you.

Then hide under your bed until you feel safe, no one will stop you. In the meantime, the rest of us are going to get on with our lives. Join us or get out of the way. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 26, 2021, 09:12:38 AM

lol, who's way am I in?

You guys all deserve each other.  Somehow turning this into a test of patriotism or some such shit.  It's adolescent.  Grow up.  Everything isn't "man up, or you're a pansy."  

God bless 'Murica, where you're free to be as stupid and selfish as you want.  I guess that's freedom.  

I have to wear a mask for 7 hours every day.  I don't want to.  I'm not fearful I'll get the virus.  But I also don't bitch and moan about it or get in fistfights over it.  I don't talk down to those who legislate such things simply in an attempt to have fewer people die.  
You know, those people who apparently hate freedom and accountability are motivated by fewer people dying, right?  That's their crime.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 26, 2021, 09:16:11 AM

No wonder every truck commercial is the same - barreling up a mountain with slow-motion turns, kicking up dirt and mud.  They use words like 'tough' and 'rugged,' which are perfectly fine words.

Except that they're unmeasurable.  So they can claim their truck is the toughest or most rugged and since that claim is unfalsifiable, it's not technically a lie.  And the masses gobble it up and buy the truck, which is simply a car on a different frame.  

Whatever gets the brilliant masses out to spend money, i guess.  That's more 'Murican than anything else posted on this board.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 26, 2021, 10:18:04 AM

Marketing nearly always pushes imagery of one sort or another.  It's rare to see a product actually marketed on its merits.  Duh.

If trees did not decompose for 60 million years, I would think there would have been a major pile up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 26, 2021, 11:00:35 AM

Maybe that's why trees are round....to roll off the pile.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 26, 2021, 12:14:56 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/Tmcuf12.png)

Taken from top of elevator test tower our near "Truist" Park.  Downtown/midtown is upper right and Buckheead is left about 10 miles distant.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 26, 2021, 05:51:08 PM

Apparently I've become the type of person who actually buys saffron... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 27, 2021, 09:10:02 AM

I buy saffron.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 27, 2021, 09:31:20 AM

My wife grows it, I don't think she has any harvest yet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 27, 2021, 09:39:21 AM

I like to make paella, so I buy saffron as well.  Never thought about growing it but it's so expensive, I should probably give it a shot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 27, 2021, 09:45:20 AM

Cash crops are worth it,so I'm told

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 27, 2021, 10:00:34 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 27, 2021, 09:45:20 AM

Cash crops are worth it,so I'm told

Can you smoke it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on November 27, 2021, 04:29:23 PM

I'm shocked...SHOCKED

https://twitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1464583555091255299?t=BGM0FiSrzzhq9YNUlDChrQ&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 28, 2021, 07:41:40 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/tbr7eVm.jpg)

Tech's home stadium at halftime.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 28, 2021, 10:41:09 AM

FORE! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 28, 2021, 10:45:18 AM

I didn't play yesterday as planned, wind at 20+ knots and some football to watch

I might play tomorrow, 60+ degrees and wind only about 15mph

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 28, 2021, 10:47:17 AM

at Auburn  24-22          34-10
Arky          42-35          37-0
Tenn        42-24            41-17
Florida      31-29            34-7

I don't know if this means much at all of course, Ohio State demolished Michigan State who beat Michigan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 28, 2021, 10:52:46 AM

means nothing, as you know

each game is different, even head to head if the same teams play twice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 28, 2021, 10:57:21 AM

Yup, a good example is OSU blowing out MSU, MSU edging Michigan, and ....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 28, 2021, 04:13:21 PM

Shot +25. Annoying because I was even bogey (+15) through 15 holes and then just completely blew up those last three holes...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 28, 2021, 04:40:42 PM

unfortunately, this is what usually happens when any golfer has a decent round going

the weak souls give up the game

the strong drink more

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 28, 2021, 04:53:57 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 28, 2021, 04:13:21 PM

Shot +25. Annoying because I was even bogey (+15) through 15 holes and then just completely blew up those last three holes...

Hey you got your aerobics in hit the 19th hole.I'd take that +25 and brag about it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 28, 2021, 05:01:11 PM

you brag about shoving sammiches in your pie hole while leaning over the kitchen sink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 28, 2021, 05:14:27 PM

Problems?Hey look at all the exercize he got,unlike you only when the cart gets a flat from toting the keg and lord forbid you have to hoof it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 28, 2021, 05:24:04 PM

I drag my phat arse in and out of that cart 100+ times a round

tough duty

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 28, 2021, 05:27:56 PM

Using the cart frame to catapult your sorry self out.Good thing you drop those clubs so you get your toe touching in

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 28, 2021, 05:37:37 PM

nod to the Egg Lobby..................

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/260648592_10225424298328001_178507666568831190_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=ikIElmzhJVUAX9nIr_g&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=e8dda8e64cf25f43d080aa40d2cde33a&oe=61A8DCC0)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 28, 2021, 05:39:08 PM

once the super market takes possession of the flimsy cartons, the eggs are sold

anything that happens after that is just more eggs to be sold

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 28, 2021, 05:41:07 PM

And that guy flies a Starship across the Galaxy?Oh that's right he's acting.Can't say as i ever had problems getting batteries out of the pack

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 28, 2021, 05:59:09 PM

he's elderly

and he breaks eggs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 28, 2021, 06:01:17 PM

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/tsgNNs93oIbwk/200.gif)  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 28, 2021, 06:09:57 PM

Ready to sit down to my third Thanksgiving dinner in a week...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 28, 2021, 06:13:07 PM

Have you had Turkey yet?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 28, 2021, 09:17:43 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 28, 2021, 06:13:07 PM

Have you had Turkey yet?

Last Sunday and today. The only day I didn't have turkey was Thursday, ironically.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 29, 2021, 08:36:01 AM

The last of our turkey went into a tortilla soup last night.  Thanksgiving 2021 is in the books.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 29, 2021, 08:37:48 AM

One thing that "means more" in the SEC is the price of CG tickets on the secondary.

Geesh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 29, 2021, 02:36:37 PM

Inside a new Midtown condo that just set sales records | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/midtown-condo-sales-record-40-west-12th-building-photos)

We have 3 bedrooms and 3.5 baths and a better location.  But not as fancy schmancy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2021, 07:07:13 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/yVRUUy5.png)

I had not seen this before, it's not IMHO a very apt ad for it, it's a great movie.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 30, 2021, 08:50:42 AM

Anyone keeping tabs on the Smollett trial in Chicago?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 30, 2021, 08:54:01 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 30, 2021, 08:50:42 AM

Anyone keeping tabs on the Smollett trial in Chicago?

Chicago spends more time on Jussie Smollett kicking his own ass than they do any murder. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2021, 09:02:19 AM

That a handful of trials make big news doesn't mean they are ignoring other crimes that aren't.

It doesn't mean they aren't either.  Public pressure often causes shifts in priorities.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 30, 2021, 09:07:55 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 30, 2021, 08:54:01 AM

Chicago spends more time on Jussie Smollett kicking his own ass than they do any murder.

Jussie was just another criminal in a long line of criminals who get the catch and release treatment in Chicago. 


;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2021, 10:01:21 AM

The Origins of Pontiac Ram Air | Mac's Motor City Garage (macsmotorcitygarage.com) (https://www.macsmotorcitygarage.com/the-origins-of-pontiac-ram-air/?fbclid=IwAR2pU7OakXo9XiHvb3x5N5ewrkvPPUQwDLObxwFkEuvRzZC9TjwzTksSTo0)

Interesting, to me, not really any ramming going on, but cooler air is good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 30, 2021, 10:50:32 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 29, 2021, 08:36:01 AM

The last of our turkey went into a tortilla soup last night.  Thanksgiving 2021 is in the books.

Yesterday finished the Turkey Salad,I'd recommend for left overs - on sammiches (rye/pumpernickel).Over the sink if you wanna do it right - according to FF

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 30, 2021, 10:54:04 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 30, 2021, 07:07:13 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/yVRUUy5.png)

I had not seen this before, it's not IMHO a very apt ad for it, it's a great movie.

That might be the worst ad I've ever seen for something so substantial

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2021, 02:01:10 PM

Yeah, based on the ad alone, I would ignore the movie other than perhaps the cast.

Really bad ad.  Maybe that was after MASH and they wanted to capitalize on the antimilitary sentiments?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 30, 2021, 02:37:03 PM

Has anyone had experience selling tickets to extremely highly sought-after events on the secondary market (Stubhub or equivalent)? 

Adele is coming for a Vegas residency, and my wife and I each [separately] signed up for eligibility for the presale. I think legitimate tickets will be expensive, but I expect with a limited run of this, tickets on the secondary market will go for a profit. 

I'm wondering how viable it is to buy 4 tickets, or 4 tickets each (if we qualify for the presale), and sell the 2 or 6 tickets we don't plan on using on the secondary market... 

I'm wondering if there's a good chance we can turn a profit, and even potentially pay for our own tickets based on the difference. 

Seems like a very good arbitrage opportunity...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 01, 2021, 08:06:00 AM

Booked a back-to-back cruise on our last one we just did. Goes from Rome's port (Civitavecchia) to Lisbon, with overnight stops in Livorno, Monaco, Barcelona, Gibraltar and Lisbon. Then it goes from Lisbon, to Bermuda for an overnight, and then Fort Lauderdale. 24 days.

Gonna be a good one, in November 2023.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 01, 2021, 08:51:58 AM

There are cruises that run from Italy to Spain along the Med coasts, and stop off for the Monaco Grand Prix.  I want to do that one day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 01, 2021, 09:33:08 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 01, 2021, 08:51:58 AM

There are cruises that run from Italy to Spain along the Med coasts, and stop off for the Monaco Grand Prix.  I want to do that one day.

We did one out of Barcelona with NCL.  It was by far the best cruise we've ever done.  The cruises in Europe are nicer than those in the States in my experience.  Our concept is to do cruises and get a brief exposure to cities and decide if we want to return for a longer stay.  We're doing the Baltic, hopefully, in May.

NCL is fine with me for value.  I don't really need fancier and don't mind the size.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 01, 2021, 09:39:21 AM

NCL's are too big. The ships we use are 700 people max. No Mickey Mouse or water slides, and no casinos.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 01, 2021, 10:01:26 AM

Do all cruises have the Russian violin chicks?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 01, 2021, 10:26:41 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 01, 2021, 09:39:21 AM

NCL's are too big. The ships we use are 700 people max. No Mickey Mouse or water slides, and no casinos.

The size is not a concern for me personally.  And I find the value to be good.  I have not noticed any violin chicks on cruises.  The casino action is pretty much a scam, I avoid it except to walk through.  

My buddy did a cruise from Argentina to South Africa he said was $15,000 for just him, they had a lot of naturalist/photography stuff, small ship etc.  He's the guy who just dropped $35 K on camera gear and is back from darkest Africa just last week.  No COVID.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 01, 2021, 10:27:05 AM

not the mickey mouse boats

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 01, 2021, 10:42:03 AM

One of the nicer things about the smaller ships is that they can dock where others can't. I'm not a fan of tendering into port, so that's a big thing for me.

They also can run faster, which means later stays and often many overnight stays.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 01, 2021, 11:08:16 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 01, 2021, 10:26:41 AM

 they had a lot of naturalist/photography stuff, small ship etc.  He's the guy who just dropped $35 K on camera gear and is back from darkest Africa just last week.  No COVID.

Well if he's outside taking pictures pretty good chance he wouldn't get it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 01, 2021, 11:33:51 AM

Malaria on the other hand... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 01, 2021, 11:52:32 AM

He takes antimalaria drugs two weeks before going, HCQ in fact.  He goes to Africa pretty often.  He gets some incredible shots.

Turgay Uzer (aka Jim's Dad) (@upgrademeforfree) • Instagram photos and videos (https://www.instagram.com/upgrademeforfree/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 01, 2021, 12:01:20 PM

A monkey with a marsupial pouch?

https://www.instagram.com/p/B6BMR1vgpPP/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Far out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 01, 2021, 12:28:59 PM

The baby is just clinging to the mother.  No pouch.  I may tag along with him if we clear up COVID some time.  It's a bit scary for me thinking about flying to Uganda or Zambia or Congo.  My wife wants to go to South Africa, but not now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 01, 2021, 12:42:44 PM

I'm good on Africa. They'd mistake me for an albino and turn me into potion. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 01, 2021, 12:45:15 PM

Death by Bunga

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 01, 2021, 01:12:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 01, 2021, 11:52:32 AM

He takes antimalaria drugs two weeks before going, HCQ in fact.  He goes to Africa pretty often.  He gets some incredible shots.

Turgay Uzer (aka Jim's Dad) (@upgrademeforfree) • Instagram photos and videos (https://www.instagram.com/upgrademeforfree/)

Well that explains why he didn't get COVID.




:)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 01, 2021, 02:10:55 PM

Some incredible shots of Old Grand Dad,Wild Turkey,Jim Beam,Elijah Craig.........

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 01, 2021, 02:34:00 PM

Scientists say they might have discovered the cause of Alzheimer's | TheHill (https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/583830-scientists-say-they-might-have-discovered-the)

Pretty interesting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 01, 2021, 02:34:51 PM

Speaking of Monkeys, how did they get to America from Africa? 

There are quite a few species native to South America and whatnot, but they evolved in Africa long after Pangaea split, and it's not too realistic that they got from one equatorial region to another by way of the Siberian land bridge to Alaska. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 01, 2021, 02:35:58 PM

I've read speculation on how, but it's just that.  I wonder how monkeys got to Japan also.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 01, 2021, 02:40:29 PM

Of the theories that you've read, which one struck you as being the most plausible? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 01, 2021, 02:46:47 PM

I've only come across one.  A bad storm blowing  trees infested with monkeys or floating mats of debris across the ocean back when the continents were closer.

More Than 30 Million Years Ago, Monkeys Rafted Across the Atlantic to South America | Science | Smithsonian Magazine (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/monkeys-raft-across-atlantic-twice-180974637/)

Back then, during a time known as the Late Eocene, Africa and South America were significantly closer. The span of the Atlantic Ocean between the two continents measured about 930 to 1,300 miles apart compared to the modern expanse of 1,770 miles. In addition, the buildup of glaciers in Antarctica around that time caused sea levels to drop, making the passage shorter than it is today. During this window of prehistory, the path between the continents was passable by sea.

“I think everyone kind of shakes their heads at primates rafting long or even moderate distances,” Miller says, but such events have happened at other times and are still going on today. Animals such as tenrecs and lemurs arrived on Madagascar by rafting from mainland Africa across a distance of more than 260 miles, for example, and small lizards island-hop (https://www.nature.com/articles/nature02143) in the Bahamas on natural rafts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 02, 2021, 12:37:57 AM

Got a Challenger R/T for my rental car today.

It's got some giddyup. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 02, 2021, 07:23:13 AM

This thread is a barrel of monkeys.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 02, 2021, 07:27:53 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on December 01, 2021, 12:42:44 PM

I'm good on Africa. They'd mistake me for an albino and turn me into potion.

That's racist.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 02, 2021, 07:28:54 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on December 01, 2021, 02:40:29 PM

Of the theories that you've read, which one struck you as being the most plausible?

The one where the genetic evidence leads to.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2021, 08:20:00 AM

I don't think genetic evidence can explain HOW monkeys got there.  I favor the aliens theory.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2021, 08:21:14 AM

There is question as to how birds and insects got to Hawaii.  Before humans landed, Hawaii had no mammals, zero.  They did have birds, including flightless birds, and insects.  Hawaii is a long way from anywhere and didn't have continental drift (other than the islands drift NW).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 02, 2021, 08:33:29 AM

Obviously they hopped a ride on Noah's Ark but got off early.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on December 02, 2021, 08:33:32 AM

Insect eggs on the feathers of birds, insects blown on the wind, and insects on drift wood.  Insects are everywhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2021, 08:44:59 AM

Yup, though it is a long way to Hawaii.  The flight from here to LA is over 4 hours, from LA to Hawaii is nearly six.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2021, 08:47:58 AM

Mauna Kea had its first snow earlier this week.  We're planning to revisit the summit on this trip, our neighbor is joining us for the second week, he's never been (the physics guy).  It's a something to see.

Kīlauea - Volcano Updates (usgs.gov) (https://www.usgs.gov/volcanoes/kilauea/volcano-updates)

The volcano is erupting, again, but you can't get close enough to see it except by chopper.  You can see the glow at night.

I've seen lava flows many years ago, it's hot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 02, 2021, 09:18:35 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 01, 2021, 12:28:59 PM

The baby is just clinging to the mother.  No pouch.  I may tag along with him if we clear up COVID some time.  It's a bit scary for me thinking about flying to Uganda or Zambia or Congo.  My wife wants to go to South Africa, but not now.

this is how I feel about all international travel
I did find my passport yesterday

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 02, 2021, 09:22:52 AM

I'm afraid my daughters will coerce me into another trip to Hawaii

I like Hawaii well enough.  I just don't care for the long flight

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2021, 10:10:14 AM

It is a pretty long flight but at least we get a layover in Seattle or LA.  We depart Dec 9 for two weeks.

There is rain in the forecast apparently, should be done by our arrival.  There will be a lot of snow on the mountains, I hope for some clear days.  Often in the south it is very foggy due to "vog", it's really a term.

Waikoloa Village, HI 10-Day Weather Forecast - The Weather Channel | Weather.com (https://weather.com/weather/tenday/l/a2a74e1db7c855c3b1d096f3f581ccec965c154ea5a0cb211024da52adc9971d)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 02, 2021, 10:15:28 AM

we've had the non-stop coming back from the islands to Chicago - very long

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2021, 10:16:04 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/XP7krdE.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 02, 2021, 10:18:09 AM

Chicago is definitely a vacation city.

Lots and lots of people vacating.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on December 02, 2021, 10:20:23 AM

It's a long flight back but an even longer flight out. Plus it's an overnighter on the way back, so there's that.

I still have some relatives that live in Honolulu. However, I haven't been out there in a long time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2021, 10:26:51 AM

We go to Kona on the Big, so there is no direct flight.  Honolulu is interesting, for a few days.

We have not been to Kauai yet.  Been to Maui once, stayed at the Waldorf, what a place that is.  I used points.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 02, 2021, 10:26:54 AM

I like travelling East much more than West - especially if we do a return crossing by ship.

They change the clocks every 2-3 days, so by the time we're home, there is no jet lag.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 02, 2021, 10:27:29 AM

Kauai is my personal favorite of the islands.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2021, 10:37:14 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/851YpKs.jpg)

Mauna Kea, probably part of the Parker Ranch foreground, or what used to be it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 02, 2021, 10:59:57 AM

Hawaii bores me. Great, warm weather and beaches. I have no clue what those are like...

I like interesting places. Cities. Sights. Local cuisine aimed at locals, not tourists. 

Hawaii is a resort. Resorts are boring. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 02, 2021, 11:17:48 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 02, 2021, 10:59:57 AM

Hawaii bores me. Great, warm weather and beaches. I have no clue what those are like...

I like interesting places. Cities. Sights. Local cuisine aimed at locals, not tourists.

Hawaii is a resort. Resorts are boring.

I hear you on the resort thing, but Hawaii has more than warm weather and beaches.  It's very beautiful.  Far more beautiful than Southern California, no offense intended.

But, since I've already been there and seen the pretty stuff, I don't feel like I need to go back.  Lots of other places to explore.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 02, 2021, 11:26:11 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 02, 2021, 10:59:57 AM

Hawaii bores me. Great, warm weather and beaches. I have no clue what those are like...

I like interesting places. Cities. Sights. Local cuisine aimed at locals, not tourists.

Hawaii is a resort. Resorts are boring.

So you don't want to go to Hawaii because you have warm weather and beaches at home.


But you like to go to other cities because... you don't have cities at home? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2021, 12:29:39 PM

My wife and I obviously like the Big Island because it is so varied and changes frequently, and the weather is generally perfect.  The beaches there are not really great and you can scrape your legs on the lava pretty easily.  There is some snorkling which is decent.  It is not really like Magnum PI and how folks think Hawaii is.  And it has snow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 02, 2021, 12:33:35 PM

On the plus side, they have a lot of Hawaiian chicks. 

:098:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2021, 01:11:00 PM

My bucket list of places to visit, someday:

Circumnavigate the Iberian peninsular, I hear Portugal has amazing food. get a haircut in Seville.

Vienna

Japan

Africa maybe, my wife wants to go back to Egypt

Argentina

I'd like to visit Volgograd but that might not happen.

We will get Tallin, St. Pete, Helsinki, Stockholm, and Copenhagen if the cruise comes off, then spending 4-5 days with a friend in Sweden on some island.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2021, 01:28:51 PM

Massive pedestrian bridge, a future BeltLine link, set to open | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/south-fork-pedestrian-bridge-opening-beltline-path400)

Pretty neat, will have to check this out, assuming I can find it.  I think it's not far from the Tower liquor store I frequent.



(https://i.imgur.com/F7LLtMz.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 02, 2021, 03:38:07 PM

I wish that I had visited Europe as it existed up through the 90s, but I'm good on Europistan. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 02, 2021, 03:41:17 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on December 02, 2021, 12:33:35 PM

On the plus side, they have a lot of Hawaiian chicks.

:098:

With Spam,Pineapples and Maui Wowie

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 02, 2021, 06:13:26 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 02, 2021, 11:17:48 AM

I hear you on the resort thing, but Hawaii has more than warm weather and beaches.  It's very beautiful.  Far more beautiful than Southern California, no offense intended.

But, since I've already been there and seen the pretty stuff, I don't feel like I need to go back.  Lots of other places to explore.

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on December 02, 2021, 11:26:11 AM

So you don't want to go to Hawaii because you have warm weather and beaches at home.


But you like to go to other cities because... you don't have cities at home?

It's more the resort thing. Carefully curated experiences designed to be as bland as possible to cater to tourists.

The most fun I've had in Hawaii is when I'm far away from the cheesy hotels.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2021, 06:44:58 PM

There aren't that many hotels on the Big.  Kona and Hilo have some, and there are resort areas north of Kona.  We stay in one, condos, nice really, the resorts don't have much by way of amenities.  There is a large Hilton hotel near where we stay that is impressive, but it doesn't have any beach at all, it's all black rocks.  They use either boats or a tram to take you to your room (which is pretty ordinary) and they have an artificial lagoon for swimming and whatnot.

(https://i.imgur.com/NeJJs9k.jpg)

We have stayed there a few nights but nomally have a condo.  They have the usual resort things there of course.  We live to drive quite some distance away to see stuff, like Volcano NP.  That's a pretty long day.  But I think most folks think of Honolulu or Kauai as Hawaii, and the Big Island is very different.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2021, 07:03:40 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/AlS47Nh.jpg)

We stay upper left along that golf course probably out of this photo.  This originally was just black lava fields from 1860 something.Most of those buildings are the Hilton Hotel.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 03, 2021, 12:47:33 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/VGOVQ6y.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 03, 2021, 12:51:58 PM

That would be kind of a bummer to fly there midwinter as a warm weather getaway and be greeted by snow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 03, 2021, 12:54:49 PM

We often go in December.  It will be 82°F where we stay, the snow is above 12,000 feet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 03, 2021, 12:58:50 PM

Oh. Well of course it is going to snow over 1200 feet. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 03, 2021, 03:55:00 PM

The best part of my last Maui trip was sunrise at the top of Haleakala at 10,000 ft and then hiking the crater. It was May but sunrise at 10K was probably 33-35 degrees F.

All the best parts of my trips to Maui or Oahu have been when I've been as far away from Lahaina and Honolulu as you can get. Honolulu especially. It sucks. It's LA but humid.

I do want to hike some of Mauna Kea, see the lava tubes, etc... So at some point I probably will end up on the big island...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 03, 2021, 03:58:44 PM

I think you'd like Kauai.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 03, 2021, 04:06:20 PM

The Thurston lava tube is a bit ... boring.  The Chain of Craters road is pretty neat to me.  Seeing flowing lava is unbelievable, but I've only seen that once up close, once from a helo dropping into the ocean.  The top of Mauna Kea is the most unearthly place I've ever seen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 03, 2021, 04:21:18 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 03, 2021, 03:58:44 PM

I think you'd like Kauai.

Wife wants to go there. 

So we're probably going to go there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on December 03, 2021, 04:22:21 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 03, 2021, 03:58:44 PM

I think you'd like Kauai.

My fav!   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 03, 2021, 08:52:59 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/s640x640/263434669_5334037819976264_1314375705237988_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=ikNqM1vfD_0AX_G6yIc&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=a4a50aee28bc8daa0cef741e88dd524e&oe=61B03DD2)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 04, 2021, 03:44:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 03, 2021, 12:47:33 PM

[img width=500 height=332.995]https://i.imgur.com/VGOVQ6y.png[/img]

https://twitter.com/realDailyWire/status/1467232385712660480?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 04, 2021, 05:52:09 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqC-JiBUhMI

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 05, 2021, 04:25:07 PM

Which bowl has the oddest name?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 05, 2021, 04:57:58 PM

Guaranteed Rate Bowl: Minnesota v. West Virginia

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2021, 06:37:55 AM

Elon Musk has strong views on hydrogen. Not everyone agrees (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/06/elon-musk-has-strong-views-on-hydrogen-and-not-everyone-agrees.html)

He doesn't see a future in them, I agree, I don't understand why they would be a thing, maybe for heavy trucks and airliners.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 06, 2021, 09:20:52 AM

I think they should have a "I'll Kick Your Ass" bowl

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2021, 11:46:43 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/qugymkO.jpg)

In blue, built since 2010, in green UC, in orange, proposed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 07, 2021, 09:48:37 AM

One of our popular local BBQ joints is doing its annual "12 Days of Smoked Meats" before Christmas, starting today with a chicken fried smoked beef rib.

(https://i.imgur.com/hM67ifE.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 07, 2021, 02:54:24 PM

Probably better that place is not around,they'd be putting the paddles on me in a couple of weeks

With Natural Gas prices climbing I wouldn't mind getting a couple of lumps of coal in the stocking

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 09, 2021, 03:24:04 AM

How Bigger and Smaller Wheels Affect Ride, Handling and Performance (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a10033989/how-bigger-and-smaller-wheels-affect-ride-handling-and-performance/?src=socialflowFB&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&fbclid=IwAR2EUtmAytjSo_f8D0pwGoZTw2C2u7dWpCZxEOFon9_MQ7UtdZOtbr0nk3g)

Over sized rims work less well than something in between.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 09, 2021, 11:27:43 AM

New Zealand has banned smoking

In a phase out plan

Today anyone 14 years and younger will never be allowed to smoke

so when they get to 80 they will eventually die and no one will be allowed to smoke

Just like prohibition this will only generate illegal tobacco sales and another mafia money maker

when will folks ever learn

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 09, 2021, 11:54:01 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 09, 2021, 11:27:43 AM

New Zealand has banned smoking

In a phase out plan

Today anyone 14 years and younger will never be allowed to smoke

so when they get to 80 they will eventually die and no one will be allowed to smoke

Just like prohibition this will only generate illegal tobacco sales and another mafia money maker

when will folks ever learn

That is quite a silly law, with a very silly construction.

Granted, if we could get the mafia focused on that vice and not others, maybe not the worse. (I know, I know. That’s not how it works)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 09, 2021, 07:09:51 PM

The University of Nebraska–Lincoln has received a five-year, $51 million grant — one of the largest in the university’s history — from the National Science Foundation. The grant will advance cutting-edge work in subatomic physics at CERN’s Large Hadron Collider, the world’s largest, most powerful particle accelerator located near Geneva, Switzerland. ›› http://ow.ly/TgUB50H4fiY

(https://external.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQHhHX5O6QUug-dA&w=500&h=261&url=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.unl.edu%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fmedia%2F20211206-bloom-cern-nt.jpg&cfs=1&ext=jpg&_nc_oe=6f2f3&_nc_sid=06c271&ccb=3-5&_nc_hash=AQHwsS-n-Twwu3C2)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 09, 2021, 07:37:03 PM

Sheldon will be very happy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 10, 2021, 12:17:53 AM

Ya know what that large hadron kolidescope needs?  Corn.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 10, 2021, 03:19:40 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/qlQc6Ad.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 10, 2021, 03:21:09 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/pmNhN1b.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 10, 2021, 09:45:26 AM

Cincy,

Try to enjoy yourself

4 inches of snow forecast here today

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 10, 2021, 12:29:03 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/amPTOns.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 10, 2021, 12:30:23 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/ltq4CVR.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 10, 2021, 01:16:35 PM

looks like you got on the correct flight

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 11, 2021, 09:18:23 AM

no gameday thread for Army/Navy????

States of North and South Dakota pumped up today!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 11, 2021, 10:48:06 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 10, 2021, 09:45:26 AM

4 inches of snow forecast here today

Hopefully it stays put for 2 weeks from today 🎄 🎁 🎅🏼

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 11, 2021, 11:11:38 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 10, 2021, 09:45:26 AM

Cincy,

Try to enjoy yourself

4 inches of snow forecast here today

Playing golf today. I might need to wear a quarter zip pullover the first few holes until it warms up to a high of 67 today. Brrr.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 11, 2021, 11:17:21 AM

shorts weather

gonna be near 60 here wednesday, might play golf

snow will be gone

been pondering all morning, guess I'll push some of the 3 inches off the driveway

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 11, 2021, 11:49:04 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 11, 2021, 11:11:38 AM

Playing golf today. I might need to wear a quarter zip pullover the first few holes until it warms up to a high of 67 today. Brrr.

OK Biff make sure you untie the arms of your "Member's Only" sweater from around you neck and put it on

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 11, 2021, 11:50:35 AM

driveway is clear and melting

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 11, 2021, 11:54:35 AM

You must be winded,sit down have a Runza and Bud and maybe a stogie

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 11, 2021, 03:10:50 PM

saving myself for this around 6pm

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/258853586_4475207589237573_3913194194628362479_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=340051&_nc_ohc=wJ-goqSL8X8AX9qFknd&tn=_MnT8OkIfzNoswba&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=ae3ab7ec01221558ccd7ae6a70508f5e&oe=61BA9ED5)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 11, 2021, 03:13:00 PM

PRIME RIB & SHRIMP

@ the R-Bar in Homer, NE

Homemade Mashed Potatoes & Gravy, Green Beans, & Sautéed Mushrooms
Shrimp Dinner $25
12oz. Prime Rib $25
24oz Prime Rib $40
Add Shrimp to Prime Rib Dinner $10


________________________

happens one Saturday evening a month

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 11, 2021, 05:49:31 PM

Shot +15 today. Not bad. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 11, 2021, 05:50:24 PM

Next stop is the wine bar and an Italian restaurant for my wife's birthday dinner with her dad and stepmom. 

Our celebration is tomorrow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 11, 2021, 07:03:34 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 11, 2021, 03:10:50 PM

saving myself for this around 6pm

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/258853586_4475207589237573_3913194194628362479_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=340051&_nc_ohc=wJ-goqSL8X8AX9qFknd&tn=_MnT8OkIfzNoswba&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=ae3ab7ec01221558ccd7ae6a70508f5e&oe=61BA9ED5)

Cindy made a great shredded Salad Mix w,red onion,juliened bell peppers,peas,sharp cheddar and some sort of creamy vinagerette,it's great.I could have went with something like that though - Bastage

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 11, 2021, 07:06:20 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 11, 2021, 05:49:31 PM

Shot +15 today. Not bad.

Hell with that get your cuts in and excercise more

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 12, 2021, 12:02:13 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 11, 2021, 05:49:31 PM

Shot +15 today. Not bad.

better than bogie golf is good golf

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 12, 2021, 12:04:49 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 11, 2021, 07:03:34 PM

Cindy made a great shredded Salad Mix w,red onion,juliened bell peppers,peas,sharp cheddar and some sort of creamy vinagerette,it's great.I could have went with something like that though - Bastage

I went with the 14oz instead of the 20 this time

was a good call

got there before 6 but the rib was not rare, not even med-rare, just medium, but damn it was still VERY good!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 12, 2021, 12:16:05 PM

ELLIOTT, Iowa (AP) — A coalition of California restaurants and grocery stores has filed a lawsuit to block implementation of a new farm animal welfare law, adding to uncertainty about whether bacon and other fresh pork products will be much more expensive or in short supply in the state when the new rules take effect on New Year’s Day.

The lawsuit is the latest step in a tumultuous three-year process of enacting rules overwhelmingly approved by voters but that remain in question even as the law is set to begin. Since voters approved Proposition 12 by a 2-to-1 ratio in November 2018, state officials have missed deadlines for releasing specific regulations covering the humane treatment of animals that provide meat for the California market.

Most hog producers haven’t made changes to comply with the law. And now a coalition of business owners is seeking more than a two-year delay.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 13, 2021, 10:00:51 AM

UK judge reverses ruling on appeal, says Julian Assange can now be extradited to the US. This is awful, awful news. Freedom of the press and the first amendment under serious attack by the US gov't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 13, 2021, 10:20:22 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 13, 2021, 10:00:51 AM

UK judge reverses ruling on appeal, says Julian Assange can now be extradited to the US. This is awful, awful news. Freedom of the press and the first amendment under serious attack by the US gov't.

Like you wouldn't believe. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 14, 2021, 11:29:27 AM

I thought @Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) would be amused to see another corporate HQ leaving the failed state of California... ;)

https://www.fox7austin.com/news/tv-chef-gordon-ramsay-ditches-california-moves-restaurant-hq-to-texas-report?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3Y9a69i4Dar7WV8YZZW8vNWfIs4mkQSrg3sgHcykL_sDhjvcVjTb3Nttg

Quote

TV chef Gordon Ramsay ditches California, moves restaurant HQ to Texas: report

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 14, 2021, 11:35:23 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 14, 2021, 11:29:27 AM

I thought @Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) would be amused to see another corporate HQ leaving the failed state of California... ;)

https://www.fox7austin.com/news/tv-chef-gordon-ramsay-ditches-california-moves-restaurant-hq-to-texas-report?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3Y9a69i4Dar7WV8YZZW8vNWfIs4mkQSrg3sgHcykL_sDhjvcVjTb3Nttg

love it. and I love Gordon Ramsay. That says a freaking lot about the current state of California if Ramsay is moving his operations to Texas. He's been in Cali for a long-time, and has even lived there for years.

makes sense. why pay insane taxes and be told what to do by a corrupt do-nothing gov't like the gov't of the state of California? people are meant to be free and pay some tax. people are not meant to be told what to do and treated like a child and taxed into oblivion ontop of it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 14, 2021, 11:38:48 AM

Right now it looks like his only plans for new Texas restaurants are in the Dallas/Fort Worth areas.  But I'd like to see him come to the ATX as well.  And Houston has a lot of money and a surprisingly cosmopolitan population with a diverse food culture.  It'd be a no-brainer to open up there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 14, 2021, 11:44:33 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 14, 2021, 11:38:48 AM

Right now it looks like his only plans for new Texas restaurants are in the Dallas/Fort Worth areas.  But I'd like to see him come to the ATX as well.  And Houston has a lot of money and a surprisingly cosmopolitan population with a diverse food culture.  It'd be a no-brainer to open up there.

Hope he has two good kidneys

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 14, 2021, 11:47:31 AM

no worries unless he spends time in the ATX

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 14, 2021, 11:51:08 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 14, 2021, 11:35:23 AM

makes sense. why pay insane taxes and be told what to do by a corrupt do-nothing gov't like the gov't of the state of California? people are meant to be free and pay some tax. people are not meant to be told what to do and treated like a child and taxed into oblivion ontop of it.

Posted: Dec 13, 2021 / 02:19 PM PST / Updated: Dec 13, 2021 / 10:28 PM PST

California will require indoor masking once again starting Wednesday, following a sharp increase in COVID-19 cases since Thanksgiving, health officials announced Monday.

The new mandate will be in effect from Dec. 15 to Jan. 15, Health and Human Services Secretary Dr. Mark Ghaly said in a briefing Monday.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 14, 2021, 12:21:03 PM

Beautiful morning here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 14, 2021, 12:23:31 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/aJ9GTht.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 14, 2021, 12:26:42 PM

Here too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 14, 2021, 12:36:41 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 14, 2021, 11:51:08 AM

Posted: Dec 13, 2021 / 02:19 PM PST / Updated: Dec 13, 2021 / 10:28 PM PST

California will require indoor masking once again starting Wednesday, following a sharp increase in COVID-19 cases since Thanksgiving, health officials announced Monday.

The new mandate will be in effect from Dec. 15 to Jan. 15, Health and Human Services Secretary Dr. Mark Ghaly said in a briefing Monday.

(https://i.imgur.com/t7R0ulw.png)


SACRAMENTO, CA—Amid surging cases of a mild cold called Omicron, California is acting decisively to reinstitute the popular mask mandate. Experts say this should effectively flatten the already completely flat, horizontal line of almost zero Omicron deaths.

"We have to flatten the horizontal line, and we have to do it now," said Newsom forcefully. "They say it can't be done, but California never backs down from a challenge! I say we make that line flatter! Who's with me?"

According to sources, the entire crowd groaned, except for 3 surgical mask sales reps in the back, who cheered wildly.

The mandate will require everyone to wear masks indoors, except for the rich and the powerful, who are not in need of such protections. This is because they have plenty of antibody-infused blood which their house servants have gladly volunteered to donate.

Newsom confirmed that masks will continue to be worn until the flat line becomes flatter, or until the human spirit of California citizens is completely crushed, whichever comes first.

California Institutes Mask Mandate To Flatten The Horizontal Line | The Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/california-institutes-mask-mandate-to-flatten-the-horizontal-line)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 14, 2021, 01:18:13 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 14, 2021, 11:51:08 AM

Posted: Dec 13, 2021 / 02:19 PM PST / Updated: Dec 13, 2021 / 10:28 PM PST

California will require indoor masking once again starting Wednesday, following a sharp increase in COVID-19 cases since Thanksgiving, health officials announced Monday.

The new mandate will be in effect from Dec. 15 to Jan. 15, Health and Human Services Secretary Dr. Mark Ghaly said in a briefing Monday.

everyone in California wear your masks indoors like good little obedient sheeple....oh except for the slimey creepy governor- who doesn't need to wear a mask when he's indoors at literally the most expensive restaurant in the entire country with a huge contingent from the health insurance lobby! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 14, 2021, 01:23:46 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 14, 2021, 11:29:27 AM

I thought @Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) would be amused to see another corporate HQ leaving the failed state of California... ;)

https://www.fox7austin.com/news/tv-chef-gordon-ramsay-ditches-california-moves-restaurant-hq-to-texas-report?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3Y9a69i4Dar7WV8YZZW8vNWfIs4mkQSrg3sgHcykL_sDhjvcVjTb3Nttg

No, please, don’t go …

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 14, 2021, 01:49:37 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on December 14, 2021, 01:23:46 PM

No, please, don’t go …

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-l5FyA3pgo

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 14, 2021, 01:53:09 PM

All these companies talking about moving their HQ to Texas makes me think of how much of an economic POWERHOUSE Delaware must be... Nearly ALL corporations are located there!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 14, 2021, 01:54:43 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/2c7uYqb.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 14, 2021, 02:01:55 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 14, 2021, 01:53:09 PM

All these companies talking about moving their HQ to Texas makes me think of how much of an economic POWERHOUSE Delaware must be... Nearly ALL corporations are located there!

they are not actually located there

they are registered there for tax purposes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 14, 2021, 02:04:29 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 14, 2021, 01:54:43 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/2c7uYqb.png)

google is moving here too

sweet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 14, 2021, 02:09:21 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 14, 2021, 01:53:09 PM

All these companies talking about moving their HQ to Texas makes me think of how much of an economic POWERHOUSE Delaware must be... Nearly ALL corporations are located there!

they are incorporated there for tax, privacy, and legal purposes. none of them are HQ'd there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 14, 2021, 02:10:10 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 14, 2021, 01:49:37 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-l5FyA3pgo

I'll one up ya...probably the best please don't go song ever made...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDERJyTDMP4

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 14, 2021, 02:16:53 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 14, 2021, 02:09:21 PM

they are incorporated there for tax, privacy, and legal purposes. none of them are HQ'd there.

beat ya to it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 14, 2021, 02:29:17 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 14, 2021, 02:04:29 PM

google is moving here too

sweet

i hate google.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 14, 2021, 02:30:14 PM

Me too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 14, 2021, 11:14:32 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 14, 2021, 02:29:17 PM

i hate google.

Big BING guy, eh?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 14, 2021, 11:15:59 PM

google is more than a search engine

but, you knew that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 14, 2021, 11:18:29 PM

Fro loves him some google, as he is all about assimilating to the Borg. :111:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 14, 2021, 11:20:20 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 14, 2021, 11:15:59 PM

google is more than a search engine

but, you knew that

They make phones and an inefficient web browser too!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 15, 2021, 12:27:44 AM

Netscape Navigator, AskJeeves, and Geocities 4 evah!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 15, 2021, 08:58:27 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on December 14, 2021, 11:20:20 PM

They make phones and an inefficient web browser too!

I have the Pixel 3 - doesn't seem to require as many reboots as any other phone I've had

and I still use Chrome

some folks try to get me to switch to Edge.  I use Edge for some things on the work laptop

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 15, 2021, 09:03:15 AM

I use Edge as well. Works best on the Windows Surface.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 15, 2021, 09:31:51 AM

new job supplies a thinkpad

seems OK

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 15, 2021, 09:43:42 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 15, 2021, 12:27:44 AM

Netscape Navigator, AskJeeves, and Geocities 4 evah!

DuckDuckGo

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 15, 2021, 09:47:40 AM

I also use Chrome and only use edge when software require it

I also use duckduckgo when I need to get away from google bias in searching

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 15, 2021, 09:54:23 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 15, 2021, 09:43:42 AM

DuckDuckGo

Altavista

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on December 15, 2021, 08:18:02 PM

My cousin works for Google so I suppose I don't hate it. I did just cancel Apple TV. May get it again when Ted Lasso comes back, but the quality was shockingly bad. Some of the shows would stutter constantly, which from Googling appears to be a frequent problem with the service. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 15, 2021, 09:15:57 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on December 15, 2021, 08:18:02 PM

My cousin works for Google so I suppose I don't hate it. I did just cancel Apple TV. May get it again when Ted Lasso comes back, but the quality was shockingly bad. Some of the shows would stutter constantly, which from Googling appears to be a frequent problem with the service.

I don't have a problem with Google. Just won't touch FB.

Never had those issues with AppleTV...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 15, 2021, 10:35:43 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 15, 2021, 09:15:57 PM

I don't have a problem with Google. Just won't touch FB.

Never had those issues with AppleTV...

FB is weird. Hated by everyone, kind of adored by all sides in a way. Generally bumbling, oddly powerful and an easy target on which to paint one's feelings on. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 15, 2021, 10:53:32 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on December 15, 2021, 10:35:43 PM

FB is weird. Hated by everyone, kind of adored by all sides in a way. Generally bumbling, oddly powerful and an easy target on which to paint one's feelings on.

I'm consistent, in that I don't have a FB account.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 16, 2021, 12:25:20 AM

I love FB, it allows me to post pictures of the kids and keep all of the relatives updated, without actually having to interact with them.  As a bona fide misanthrope, I love its convenience for staying in touch with people, but not TOO close.

People who get wrapped up in it or offended by what they read, are doing it to themselves.  It's very simple for me to ignore the stupid crap on there, it doesn't affect my day at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 16, 2021, 06:45:24 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 15, 2021, 10:53:32 PM

I'm consistent, in that I don't have a FB account.

I zapped mine too.


FB/Twit/Inst are ruining the world.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 16, 2021, 07:10:43 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 16, 2021, 12:25:20 AM

I love FB, it allows me to post pictures of the kids and keep all of the relatives updated, without actually having to interact with them.  As a bona fide misanthrope, I love its convenience for staying in touch with people

If you were  bona fide the 1st thing you do in our M.A. meetings is disable that account

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on December 16, 2021, 07:14:12 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 16, 2021, 06:45:24 AM

I zapped mine too.


FB/Twit/Inst are ruining the world.

I have never had a FB, TWIT, or Insta account.  

Just a personal choice. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on December 16, 2021, 08:17:35 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 16, 2021, 12:25:20 AM

I love FB, it allows me to post pictures of the kids and keep all of the relatives updated, without actually having to interact with them.  As a bona fide misanthrope, I love its convenience for staying in touch with people, but not TOO close.

People who get wrapped up in it or offended by what they read, are doing it to themselves.  It's very simple for me to ignore the stupid crap on there, it doesn't affect my day at all.

Yeah do these people talk to others, like some sort of Neanderthal? I saw your feed, and your new cat or whatever, no need for small talk.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 16, 2021, 09:25:17 AM

New cat?

WTF?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 16, 2021, 09:28:25 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 16, 2021, 07:10:43 AM

If you were  bona fide the 1st thing you do in our M.A. meetings is disable that account

Nah, the FB account allows me to pursue my misanthropic ways without interference from humans.  It's really quite brilliant.

Other marvelous inventions for the misanthrope:
Online shopping and contactless delivery for pretty much anything including groceries
Online ordering and contactless delivery from restaurants
Online ordering and curbside pickup for restaurants
Work-from-home enabled by Teams/Zoom/Skype meetings.
Online ordering and assigned seating for movie theaters

The list goes on and on.  What a time to be alive!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 16, 2021, 10:16:22 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 16, 2021, 06:45:24 AM

I zapped mine too.


FB/Twit/Inst are ruining the world.

Insta hasn't gone off the rails yet... Yet. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 16, 2021, 10:23:54 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 16, 2021, 10:16:22 AM

Insta hasn't gone off the rails yet... Yet.

It's the home of the "influencer" therefore I actually consider it far, far worse than FB.

Twitter is the worst of all though, for sure.  Especially considering its small user base compared to the other two, its impact is dramatically outsized.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 16, 2021, 10:45:01 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 16, 2021, 12:25:20 AM

I love FB, it allows me to post pictures of the kids and keep all of the relatives updated, without actually having to interact with them.  As a bona fide misanthrope, I love its convenience for staying in touch with people, but not TOO close.

People who get wrapped up in it or offended by what they read, are doing it to themselves.  It's very simple for me to ignore the stupid crap on there, it doesn't affect my day at all.

I agree with the many benefits.  The drawback for me is not getting offended by what people post, it's how facebook operates to promote or suppress whatever their flavor of the day is, and selling our personal info.  I'm not a fan of gaslighting, and I'm not a fan of "them" trying to filter your reality for you because they know best.  There are genuine business reasons operating on the principles of a free market for them to behave this way.  I don't oppose that.  There are also ideological reasons why they behave that way.  I do have a problem with that.  

I've tried getting people to follow me to another platform like MeWe, but like any mega-monolithic ubiquitous paradigm of society, it's very slow going to get people to change what they're already doing.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 16, 2021, 10:48:51 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 16, 2021, 10:45:01 AM

I agree with the many benefits.  The drawback for me is not getting offended by what people post, it's how facebook operates to promote or suppress whatever their flavor of the day is, and selling our personal info.  I'm not a fan of gaslighting, and I'm not a fan of "them" trying to filter your reality for you because they know best.  There are genuine business reasons operating on the principles of a free market for them to behave this way.  I don't oppose that.  There are also ideological reasons why they behave that way.  I do have a problem with that. 

I've tried getting people to follow me to another platform like MeWe, but like any mega-monolithic ubiquitous paradigm of society, it's very slow going to get people to change what they're already doing. 

If everyone left FB I'd just cancel my account and shut it down.  I don't have the energy to get involved with another platform.  That transition from MySpace to FB was painful enough... ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 16, 2021, 11:04:10 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 16, 2021, 06:45:24 AM

I zapped mine too.


FB/Twit/Inst are ruining the world.

I saw a Ted Talk a few years ago that reviewed evidence that people who don't use social media are happier than those who do.  I was in the middle of some very bad years, so I thought I'd try it.  I quit facebook for 6 months, or a year, I don't remember.  As it turns out, I do believe I was happier and that it helped.  

Ever since then, I still use FB, but very sparingly.  I pretty much track people's birthday's with it so I can wish them happy birthday, and maybe read the top post in my feed that's on my screen, and I'm done.  Sometimes I will also post.  About once a week I'll spend a little while, maybe 30 minutes scrolling through my feed and checking on certain people.  This seems to be a good compromise.  I feel like I stay up with my friends well enough, and I still feel better than when I used it significantly more.  I also deleted the phone app because it used to be that the temptation to scroll fb while I was away from a home computer was great.  Turns out my phone operates much better without FB and Messenger on it anyway.  

Never had Twitter.  Had Instagram for a while but I started noticing the same thing about it....I was happier the less I used it, so I haven't for a good while.  

Erm....I might be forced to admit addictive nature of other online enjoyments....certain multi-team/multi-fan cfb sites and an LSU site where people need my correction because they're wrong so much.  I'm kinda ashamed to say this, but while I'm in a semester, I blocked my access to this site and one other.  Too much of this and not enough studying :smiley_confused1: so I hit the nuclear option.  Turns out, I'd talk to you goons all day long and never get anything done if it's left up to me.  Oddly enough, when I worked at the only "real" job I've had (I work now, but I'm paid so little I hardly count it as a real job), I had plenty of time to chat on here.  As I've always maintained--and will here once again--school is harder than the real world.  My wife rolled her eyes and said "Can't you just not talk to your football friends?"  I was like "Babe, just set the password and don't tell me, but you have to let me back on in the Christmas break."  So here I am :-D

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 16, 2021, 11:05:55 AM

Glad you're back amigo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 16, 2021, 11:09:24 AM

Yep.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 16, 2021, 11:12:32 AM

Me too.

...

...chili can have beans in it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 16, 2021, 11:13:52 AM

nope

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 16, 2021, 11:37:25 AM

We're gonna have highs in the low 50s and lows in the mid 30s over the weekend, whilst camping.  I think I might make a big ol' pot of Texas red over the campfire.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 16, 2021, 12:02:43 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 16, 2021, 09:28:25 AM

Nah, the FB account allows me to pursue my misanthropic ways without interference from humans.  It's really quite brilliant.

Oh Bullcrap,you roll out  the welcome wagon to all those moving to the infernal regions around Austin

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on December 16, 2021, 12:23:17 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 16, 2021, 11:12:32 AM

Me too.

...

...chili can have beans in it. 

A member of our officiating crew is from Texas.  Well we had our end of season gathering with spouses and he made chili.  Because of the protest from a couple of midwesterns on the crew, including myself, he made as side pot of beans for us to make "true" chili, beans and all. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 16, 2021, 12:47:30 PM

$2,500 Ethernet Switch Effectively Isolates Audiophiles From Cash

https://www-tomshardware-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.tomshardware.com/amp/news/ethernet-switch-for-audiophiles?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16396766200714&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tomshardware.com%2Fnews%2Fethernet-switch-for-audiophiles

:smiley_confused1:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 16, 2021, 01:42:38 PM

Well its officially the Christmas season

Just opened the annual Hickory Farms box my sister in law sends every year

Summer sausage and cheddar cheese

not a bad snack

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 16, 2021, 03:39:03 PM

Got lunch in the PHX airport. Went for the cheese quesadilla because it was the only thing that looked like it wouldn't give me food poisoning...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 16, 2021, 04:08:36 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 16, 2021, 03:39:03 PM

Got lunch in the PHX airport. Went for the cheese quesadilla because it was the only thing that looked like it wouldn't give me food poisoning...

Oh man that sucks.  For lunch today, I had the smoked Tomahawk Ribeye from one of my local BBQ joints.  It didn't suck.




(https://i.imgur.com/tUHBneE.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 16, 2021, 04:38:46 PM

Just had to rub it in - at Christmas Time no less you brazen knob don't worry about us poor down and outs with our raman noodles,mac and cheese and Lonestar

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 16, 2021, 06:18:56 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 16, 2021, 04:08:36 PM

Oh man that sucks.  For lunch today, I had the smoked Tomahawk Ribeye from one of my local BBQ joints.  It didn't suck.




[img width=259.091 height=375]https://i.imgur.com/tUHBneE.png[/img]

Doing the steakhouse thing in Tulsa tomorrow night.
That'sa hell of a ribeye though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 16, 2021, 06:25:44 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 16, 2021, 04:08:36 PM

Oh man that sucks.  For lunch today, I had the smoked Tomahawk Ribeye from one of my local BBQ joints.  It didn't suck.




(https://i.imgur.com/tUHBneE.png)

that looks incredible. I just made one on my grill not that long ago. I found this butcher shop not far from me that sells Australian Wagyu tomahawks. Think I'm going to try that next time I go back there. Last time I was there I bought an A5 Japanese Wagyu ribeye. $129/LB. It was really good, but I don't think worth it. Even the guy who sold it to me told me he likes the Australian Wagyu better because the really expensive A5 Japanese stuff is just too much fat, too rich. Think I agree with the dude after actually buying it and cooking it. Kinda insane how you cook it with zero oil in the pan and there is so much fat that renders out by the time you're done looks like you put a gallon of oil in the pan to start cooking it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 16, 2021, 08:18:59 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 16, 2021, 04:08:36 PM

Oh man that sucks.  For lunch today, I had the smoked Tomahawk Ribeye from one of my local BBQ joints.  It didn't suck.




(https://i.imgur.com/tUHBneE.png)

and a dern fine beer!

so, do they smoke the entire bone-in rib block, slice and then grill for a pattern?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 17, 2021, 08:48:57 AM

That wasn't actually my tray, just a pic from the internet.  My tray looked almost identical, though, but with a Shiner Bock instead.

And honestly I don't know how it was made, but that's probably how I'd do it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 17, 2021, 09:29:13 AM

My guess would be it's cooked on demand like any other restaurant steak. Seared hard then finished in the oven.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 17, 2021, 10:44:01 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 17, 2021, 09:29:13 AM

My guess would be it's cooked on demand like any other restaurant steak. Seared hard then finished in the oven.

No it's BBQ-- they're smoked over post oak, and seared.  And they have a limited quantity, they sell out early.

I'd guess Fearless is right, and that they smoke the whole rack uncut for X amount of time, and then cut them into steaks and finish on the grill. I think that would make more sense than separating them, and then smoking them, where they'd be more likely to dry out.

It has really good smoke flavor but not overpowering, not as much as a brisket or beef rib would have, so they don't leave it on the smoke for a terribly long time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2021, 10:54:05 AM

What the hell... 

New York will restrict gas for cooking and heating, paving the way for more cities to follow (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/new-york-will-restrict-gas-for-cooking-and-heating-paving-the-way-for-more-cities-to-follow/ar-AART5vs?ocid=msedgntp)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 17, 2021, 11:04:20 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2021, 10:54:05 AM

What the hell...

New York will restrict gas for cooking and heating, paving the way for more cities to follow (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/new-york-will-restrict-gas-for-cooking-and-heating-paving-the-way-for-more-cities-to-follow/ar-AART5vs?ocid=msedgntp)

that's OK. keep it up NY. you're just making more people and more money come to FL.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2021, 11:22:07 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 17, 2021, 11:04:20 AM

that's OK. keep it up NY. you're just making more people and more money come to FL.

So long as they are coming and NOT trying to CHANGE Florida, I'm fine with it too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 17, 2021, 11:29:55 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2021, 10:54:05 AM

What the hell...

New York will restrict gas for cooking and heating, paving the way for more cities to follow (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/new-york-will-restrict-gas-for-cooking-and-heating-paving-the-way-for-more-cities-to-follow/ar-AART5vs?ocid=msedgntp)

and what in the world has caused this shortage?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on December 17, 2021, 12:07:37 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 17, 2021, 11:29:55 AM

and what in the world has caused this shortage?

The headline is a bit misleading - they aren't restricting use of gas now, they are banning new builds from using gas in the future.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 17, 2021, 12:10:05 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2021, 11:22:07 AM

So long as they are coming and NOT trying to CHANGE Florida, I'm fine with it too.

I have bad news about this. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 17, 2021, 12:14:50 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on December 17, 2021, 12:07:37 PM

The headline is a bit misleading - they aren't restricting use of gas now, they are banning new builds from using gas in the future.

so no natural gas usage is allowed in new buildings

why

does natural gas pollute or have high carbon emission 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on December 17, 2021, 12:25:54 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 17, 2021, 12:14:50 PM

so no natural gas usage is allowed in new buildings

why

does natural gas pollute or have high carbon emission

I don't know that it has any higher or lower carbon emission than other fossil fuels, though it is cleaner for other pollutants. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2021, 12:42:49 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on December 17, 2021, 12:10:05 PM

I have bad news about this.

I'm concerned.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2021, 01:02:32 PM

Fed-Up Statue Of Liberty Moves To Florida | The Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/fed-up-statue-of-liberty-moves-to-florida)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 17, 2021, 01:06:46 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on December 17, 2021, 12:10:05 PM

I have bad news about this.

don't matter, never gonna work. florida will be red forever. thank god. the blueidiots can try all they want, they can't change jackshit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 17, 2021, 01:08:24 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2021, 12:42:49 PM

I'm concerned.

it's mostly people with money moving here. they like not paying taxes. and they like freedom. we aight. 

every where that is a super-majority democratic controlled city or state just automatically winds up becoming a shit-hole. it's inevitable. that's why these people are escaping to florida.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 17, 2021, 01:21:32 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 17, 2021, 10:44:01 AM

No it's BBQ-- they're smoked over post oak, and seared.  And they have a limited quantity, they sell out early.

Ahh, that makes sense then. I figured the logistics would be screwy, but if it's limited quantity until running out, I would agree.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 17, 2021, 01:29:28 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2021, 12:42:49 PM

I'm concerned.

I mean, more people change anything. You changed it just a bit. 

Now, I know the subtext might be purely along a red-blue axis, and who knows is that changes? People in power often have an interest in insulating themselves from wills of their constituents, and maybe you have some folks like that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 17, 2021, 01:31:24 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 17, 2021, 01:06:46 PM

don't matter, never gonna work. florida will be red forever. thank god. the blueidiots can try all they want, they can't change jackshit.

Doubtful.  Texas tips more toward the blue with every passing year.  Florida is on a similar trajectory for similar reasons.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 17, 2021, 01:32:35 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on December 17, 2021, 01:29:28 PM

I mean, more people change anything. You changed it just a bit.

Now, I know the subtext might be purely along a red-blue axis, and who knows is that changes? People in power often have an interest in insulating themselves from wills of their constituents, and maybe you have some folks like that.

age old question do elected officials have a higher duty to reflect voters views or their own and they are not always the same

as one politician said my state is split right down the middle on this the people are for it and Im against it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 17, 2021, 02:01:35 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 17, 2021, 01:32:35 PM

age old question do elected officials have a higher duty to reflect voters views or their own and they are not always the same

as one politician said my state is split right down the middle on this the people are for it and Im against it

I was more referring to the views on mechanisms to keep themselves in charge. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2021, 02:11:49 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 17, 2021, 01:06:46 PM

don't matter, never gonna work. florida will be red forever.

Is this a joke?  I haven't read something this wrong in quite awhile.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on December 17, 2021, 02:48:48 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 17, 2021, 01:31:24 PM

Florida is on a similar trajectory for similar reasons.

Perhaps, but based on the last few election cycles, Florida is a red state unless and until proven otherwise.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2021, 02:56:23 PM

Hopefully to remain that way in the long-term too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2021, 03:36:12 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on December 17, 2021, 02:48:48 PM

Perhaps, but based on the last few election cycles, Florida is a red state unless and until proven otherwise.

Uhhh....what?

In the last 6 presidential elections, FL has voted with the winner 5 times.  The only exception was 2020.  
That means FL tends to lean towards the better (as in likely to win) candidate, regardless of party.

This fantasy that FL is red, the end, is really bizarre.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 17, 2021, 03:58:22 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2021, 03:36:12 PM

Uhhh....what?

In the last 6 presidential elections, FL has voted with the winner 5 times.  The only exception was 2020. 
That means FL tends to lean towards the better (as in likely to win) candidate, regardless of party.

This fantasy that FL is red, the end, is really bizarre.

https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2021/11/17/milestone-moment-republicans-officially-overtake-democrats-in-florida-1394072

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 17, 2021, 04:06:38 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2021, 03:36:12 PM

Uhhh....what?

In the last 6 presidential elections, FL has voted with the winner 5 times.  The only exception was 2020. 
That means FL tends to lean towards the better (as in likely to win) candidate, regardless of party.

This fantasy that FL is red, the end, is really bizarre.

The Republican party has been in control of the Florida Governor and both houses for the last 23 years

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2021, 04:27:06 PM

The Republican party is in control of a lot of state governments it doesn't have a majority of support in.

I wonder how that can be??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 17, 2021, 04:37:38 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2021, 04:27:06 PM

The Republican party is in control of a lot of state governments it doesn't have a majority of support in.

I wonder how that can be??

name one

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2021, 05:42:56 PM

lol, the one I live in, dipshit

(https://i.imgur.com/TlzQLRy.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 17, 2021, 07:12:06 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2021, 05:42:56 PM

lol, the one I live in, dipshit

(https://i.imgur.com/TlzQLRy.jpg)

just where is dream world and thats Mr Dipshit to you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2021, 07:15:29 PM

Arizona.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 17, 2021, 07:39:14 PM

so you are saying theres more dems then republicans in Arizona but the Republicans win anyway 

you need to do a better job of vote harvesting

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2021, 09:32:34 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 17, 2021, 07:39:14 PM

so you are saying theres more dems then republicans in Arizona but the Republicans win anyway

you need to do a better job of vote harvesting  gerrymandering

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 17, 2021, 10:10:03 PM

you need to do a better job of vote harvesting  gerrymandering

you got to win the office first before you can gerrymander

better focus in on vote harvesting until you do

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 17, 2021, 10:59:39 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 17, 2021, 10:10:03 PM

you need to do a better job of vote harvesting  gerrymandering

you got to win the office first before you can gerrymander

better focus in on vote harvesting until you do

/Raises hand

No one should do a good job of that. Ever. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 17, 2021, 11:21:00 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUEqh07E4dY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 18, 2021, 05:02:44 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 17, 2021, 10:10:03 PM

you need to do a better job of vote harvesting  gerrymandering

you got to win the office first before you can gerrymander

better focus in on vote harvesting until you do

Or just appeal to old white people.  They're most likely to vote.  Cater to them.  Placate them.  Cozy up to their confirmation bias.  Tell them lies they're anxious to believe.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 18, 2021, 07:06:59 AM

Ya the ones who pay for your free ride princess.They're all prejudice because in your land of make believe they are are evil or indifferent to your carnival barking.Do tell what color(since you brought it up) are your old parents who YOU  stated to this group raised you right.You make me larf - where's the evidence of that?Telling other men your mommy/daddy raised you right 🤣 .But just yesterday you called two posters trolls - which you deleted and another a dipshit,ya we''ll go with raised right. You bloviating Tit. I'd tell you "Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays" but that would mock your incredible celestial insight

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 18, 2021, 09:57:06 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 18, 2021, 05:02:44 AM

Or just appeal to old white people.  They're most likely to vote.  Cater to them.  Placate them.  Cozy up to their confirmation bias.  Tell them lies they're anxious to believe. 

why bring race into this

playing the race card isnt cool

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 18, 2021, 11:56:57 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 17, 2021, 12:14:50 PM

so no natural gas usage is allowed in new buildings

why

does natural gas pollute or have high carbon emission

carbon emissions

I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up a few years ago

Burning trees, burning charcoal for your grill or smoker, gas grills and smokers, simply cutting down trees is bad for carbon

gas engines in lawn mowers, weed wackers, chain saws, leaf blowers, golf carts

why just electric generation plants and automobiles? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 18, 2021, 11:58:38 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 18, 2021, 11:56:57 AM

carbon emissions

I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up a few years ago

Burning trees, burning charcoal for your grill or smoker, gas grills and smokers, simply cutting down trees is bad for carbon

gas engines in lawn mowers, weed wackers, chain saws, leaf blowers, golf carts

why just electric generation plants and automobiles?

In the US, what do we use, to generate the majority of our electricity, that is used to charge up those electric automobiles?  Or to run the electric stoves/ovens/grills? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 18, 2021, 12:07:54 PM

I know we have limited green electric power generation, and that should be the focus.  Can't change cooking and many other things until there ia a green source

I'm just saying, it's easy to guilt millionaires in private jets, yachts, space rockets, large trucks, cars with V8s, evil corporations, countries like China.

but, those casting guilt and shame are cutting down trees, firing up their smoker or gas grill or gas stove, driving a gas powered golf cart or snowmobile.

a part of the problem, that sees themselves as innocent

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on December 18, 2021, 03:20:50 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 18, 2021, 11:56:57 AM

carbon emissions

I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up a few years ago

Burning trees, burning charcoal for your grill or smoker, gas grills and smokers, simply cutting down trees is bad for carbon

gas engines in lawn mowers, weed wackers, chain saws, leaf blowers, golf carts

why just electric generation plants and automobiles?

I thought that since wood is so recent in the carbon cycle it really didn’t make much difference?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on December 18, 2021, 03:30:18 PM

Nuclear power is the one the greenies won’t talk about. Wind and solar will only carry us so far. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 18, 2021, 07:29:57 PM

Nuclear is coming back, there's just a delay because a whole generation had no one study to do it because the industry was on pause.
The newbies have no experience in the field and those with experience have retired.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 18, 2021, 07:32:53 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 18, 2021, 07:06:59 AM

Ya the ones who pay for your free ride princess.They're all prejudice because in your land of make believe they are are evil or indifferent to your carnival barking.Do tell what color(since you brought it up) are your old parents who YOU  stated to this group raised you right.You make me larf - where's the evidence of that?Telling other men your mommy/daddy raised you right 🤣 .But just yesterday you called two posters trolls - which you deleted and another a dipshit,ya we''ll go with raised right. You bloviating Tit. I'd tell you "Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays" but that would mock your incredible celestial insight

You can't have been raised right if you're using naughty words on the internet!!!
Thanks for your contribution.

Anyway, tell me more about my free ride.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 18, 2021, 07:35:04 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 18, 2021, 07:06:59 AM

Ya the ones who pay for your free ride princess.They're all prejudice because in your land of make believe they are are evil or indifferent to your carnival barking.

I'm white, in case you're an oblivious dolt.

Nothing in my post even suggested that old white people are prejudice.  The point was that they can be pandered to.  They're easy to pander to.  Pandering to them is effective.

Thanks for missing the point, though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 18, 2021, 08:36:04 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 18, 2021, 07:32:53 PM

You can't have been raised right if you're using naughty words on the internet!!!
Thanks for your contribution.

Anyway, tell me more about my free ride.

Government tit,you're too young to have dementia.And the point's on your head,popping off hypocritcal bilge,personal attacks of course from the the comfort of you keyboard kommando couch.Thanks for waiting all after noon hoping the other poundings subsided - troll.Did i do that right

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 18, 2021, 08:50:08 PM

Cooking dinner. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 18, 2021, 08:55:18 PM

Make some room for FF's Flinstone's Bed Rock Beef Ribs - bastages

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 18, 2021, 09:24:02 PM

ribs were pretty good

nice pre volleyball match meal

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 18, 2021, 10:02:00 PM

You playing VB after wolfing down a rack?What could go wrong?Why don't you find a recliner grab a Bud and watch the Jimmy Kimmel Bowl

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 18, 2021, 10:46:15 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 18, 2021, 08:36:04 PM

Government tit,you're too young to have dementia.And the point's on your head,popping off hypocritcal bilge,personal attacks of course from the the comfort of you keyboard kommando couch.Thanks for waiting all after noon hoping the other poundings subsided - troll.Did i do that right

Should pubic school teachers volunteer?  You're so sidetracked by your hatred that you're not making any sense.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2021, 01:32:01 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 18, 2021, 10:46:15 PM

Should pubic school teachers volunteer?  You're so sidetracked by your hatred that you're not making any sense.

Don't even attempt to ride the coat tails of individuals who display decency, honor and intellect in daily discourse.No one here buys it,your new attempts at slithering about aren't anymore successful than the prevoius ones.Every day you hurl inflammatory, unsolicited slur then scream like a cat in a fan belt when it's launched back .Sad really you get in online arguments seeking attention,sympathy or approval. Have a Merry Christmas........ oh sorry I forgot how revolting you find that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 19, 2021, 01:56:45 AM

Are you drunk?

I say Merry Christmas, because that's what I've always said.  No, I don't find "Happy Holidays" an affront.  It's a silly attempt at being inclusive.  It's not the same as someone shooting your dog. 
And this happy atheist says "Merry Christmas" in the spirit of Santa Claus, greedy little children, and the silly stresses people put on themselves. Seeking the ridiculous goals of reluctantly spending time with family, making everything look perfect for some reason, and getting the exact gifts and food prepared to an apathetic group of "loved ones."

It's all a big cash grab.  No thanks.
I choose a stress-free time of relaxing and leisure activities.  I see who I want to.  No decorations or shopping trips.  And the best gift is free - write a letter to someone telling them how great they are and how much you value them.

Merry Christmas, though!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 19, 2021, 06:37:18 PM

Back home in CA. I can say I've seen as much of Pawhuska OK as I need to in my life.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 19, 2021, 11:16:21 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 19, 2021, 06:37:18 PM

Back home in CA. I can say I've seen as much of Pawhuska OK as I need to in my life.

I pulled it up on Google Maps and the first thing I saw was the Immaculate Conception church.

Was the conception at least immaculate?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 20, 2021, 12:06:15 AM

That costs extra.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 20, 2021, 10:34:50 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 19, 2021, 01:56:45 AM

Are you drunk?

I say Merry Christmas, because that's what I've always said.  No, I don't find "Happy Holidays" an affront.  It's a silly attempt at being inclusive.  It's not the same as someone shooting your dog. 
And this happy atheist says "Merry Christmas" in the spirit of Santa Claus, greedy little children, and the stilly stresses people put on themselves. Seeking the ridiculous goals of reluctantly spending time with family, making everything look perfect for some reason, and getting the exact gifts and food prepared to an apathetic group of "loved ones."

It's all a big cash grab.  No thanks.
I choose a stress-free time of relaxing and leisure activities.  I see who I want to.  No decorations or shopping trips.  And the best gift is free - write a letter to someone telling them how great they are and how much you value them.

Merry Christmas, though!!!

Most OAM post ever.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 20, 2021, 10:48:48 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on December 19, 2021, 11:16:21 PM

I pulled it up on Google Maps and the first thing I saw was the Immaculate Conception church.

Was the conception at least immaculate?

I usually try to avoid churches...

We did drive into Tulsa on Friday to go to a nice steakhouse, and the girls wanted to go see this Christmas lights display that apparently is all the rage. I figured it was some neighborhood where the homeowners go all out. Instead it's a mega-church and it was as "extra" as Tammy Faye's makeup (https://www.rhemalights.org/)...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 20, 2021, 10:57:54 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 20, 2021, 10:48:48 AM

I usually try to avoid churches...

We did drive into Tulsa on Friday to go to a nice steakhouse, and the girls wanted to go see this Christmas lights display that apparently is all the rage. I figured it was some neighborhood where the homeowners go all out. Instead it's a mega-church and it was as "extra" as Tammy Faye's makeup (https://www.rhemalights.org/)...

I dont get what you are trying to say concerning churches

do you object to a church having Christmas decorations 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 20, 2021, 11:20:47 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 20, 2021, 10:48:48 AM

I usually try to avoid churches...

Well if your arrival means the walls collapsing,bricks falling out and the drive opening up then I can't say as I blame you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 20, 2021, 11:24:09 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 19, 2021, 01:56:45 AM

Are you drunk?
 
 And the best gift is free - write a letter to someone telling them how great they are and how much you value them.

Almost like your posts in here!!! That's really touching,I'm sure everyone in the forum is reaching for a Kleenex upon reading that :D

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 20, 2021, 11:36:47 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 20, 2021, 10:57:54 AM

I dont get what you are trying to say concerning churches

do you object to a church having Christmas decorations

Of course I don't object. Heck, I'd be a hypocrite because I've decorated my own house for Christmas. 

I avoid churches because I'm not religious and don't see any reason to go to them. Just like a vegan isn't exactly going to be going to steakhouses very often. 

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 20, 2021, 11:20:47 AM

Well if your arrival means the walls collapsing,bricks falling out and the drive opening up then I can't say as I blame you

If my arrival meant that, I'd actually reconsider my lack of belief... I've spent more than enough time in churches and NOT have them collapse, or get struck by lightning, or otherwise befall calamity, that I'm not avoiding them out of fear. Just not my cup of tea...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 20, 2021, 11:41:22 AM

Churches = dressing up to be bored for at least an hour.

No wonder they can't charge admission.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 20, 2021, 11:49:49 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 20, 2021, 11:36:47 AM

. Just like a vegan isn't exactly going to be going to steakhouses very often.
If my arrival meant that, I'd actually reconsider my lack of belief... I've spent more than enough time in churches and NOT have them collapse, or get struck by lightning, or otherwise befall calamity, that I'm not avoiding them out of fear. Just not my cup of tea...

J/K maybe you should have a salad and clean out those carotids out, I like your steak house analogy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 20, 2021, 01:12:06 PM

I sometimes ask atheists why they believe what they believe....they generally can't tell me. 

I sometimes ask Christians why they believe what they believe....they generally can't tell me either. 

Atheists usually tell me something along the lines of "God makes no sense" or "Religion is stupid" or "Religious people are hypocrites."  Wow....some hard-hitting evidence, Sherlock, you certainly convinced me with that insuperable reasoning. 

Christians usually tell me something along the lines of "I was raised Christian" or "It works for me" or "I just believe it's true."  Well....sign me right up, who could resist the impregnable logic of such a well thought-out basis for living your life.

In either case, just a few probing questions tends to reduce them to blank stares and hastily checking their watches as they pretend to have something else to do.  

I've only known a few Muslims, and far as I remember, never known any Hindus or Buddhists.  I wonder if they'd tell me pretty much the same thing. 

I think the average person just stumbles along without ever thinking about it much.  Seems odd.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 20, 2021, 01:40:09 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 20, 2021, 01:12:06 PM

I think the average person just stumbles along without ever thinking about it much.  Seems odd.

A book that I HIGHLY recommend is Sapiens (https://www.amazon.com/Sapiens-Humankind-Yuval-Noah-Harari-ebook/dp/B00ICN066A/). 

One of the most important things about people, moreso than the ability to reason, is the ability to create and sustain myths. 

A good example (and one used in the book) is money. What is money? Green pieces of cloth/paper with numbers printed on them? Worthless for nothing other than wiping your ass or burning for heat if we didn't all believe that it was special and worth something. And this is the basis for all commerce in America? 

Other myths are religions, borders, nations, etc. These ideas only have power because we all kinda just agreed on them. What is an "American"? What is an "America", for that matter? The human brain can't really comprehend more than about 150 people, but we've all agreed that 340M people are all "like us" to the point where we pay taxes, go to war, vote, make decisions, all as a group. 

When you take a myth like "money" and subject it to strict scrutiny, you realize that it ONLY has meaning because we all agree it has meaning. And the even sillier thing about it is that people argue over it. Goldbugs will argue that fiat currency isn't "real" money, but gold is. Ever tried to go to Walmart and spend gold? Governments will argue that bitcoin isn't "real money" but there are places I can go spend it. Government fiat currency is "great" money, until you're Weimar Germany or Zimbabwe 20(ish?) years ago or Venezuela over the last 5-10 years. 

Religion (abstracting organized religion as an institution AWAY from the idea of whether or not there's a supreme being) is a very powerful myth. It has done tremendous good in the world, bringing people together, helping people in need, helping people cope with the absurdity of living, helping people feel like they're part of something--a community, a purpose--bigger than themselves. It has also done tremendous evil in the world, and been a major force over the centuries in war, bigotry, and division between people. (Government/nations have done the same, and people over silly divisions like race/etc have also done the same; I'm not singling out religion for this.) 

So, yeah, most people go through life never thinking about any of these myths. If they did, and too many started questioning them, they'd fall like a house of cards, because it's really hard to actually comprehend that they're myths and then at the same time support and sustain them "because they work". Society depends on myths, and myths depend on not being too closely scrutinized lest we realize they're just myths. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 20, 2021, 01:47:21 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 20, 2021, 01:40:09 PM

A book that I HIGHLY recommend is Sapiens (https://www.amazon.com/Sapiens-Humankind-Yuval-Noah-Harari-ebook/dp/B00ICN066A/).

One of the most important things about people, moreso than the ability to reason, is the ability to create and sustain myths.

A good example (and one used in the book) is money. What is money? Green pieces of cloth/paper with numbers printed on them? Worthless for nothing other than wiping your ass or burning for heat if we didn't all believe that it was special and worth something. And this is the basis for all commerce in America?

You live in California right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 20, 2021, 01:55:24 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 20, 2021, 01:47:21 PM

You live in California right?

Yes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 20, 2021, 01:58:19 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 20, 2021, 01:12:06 PM

I sometimes ask atheists why they believe what they believe....they generally can't tell me. 

Atheists aren't just people who believe there is no god, but it's also everyone who isn't convinced there is a god.  
You're right about the former, their claim that there is no god is bizarre and would need to be supported by evidence.
The latter makes no claim, we're merely not convinced and thus - have no claim to support.  

I'm an atheist because there is nothing anywhere near convincing evidence that any god exists.  It's that simple.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 20, 2021, 02:06:54 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 20, 2021, 01:40:09 PM

A book that I HIGHLY recommend is Sapiens (https://www.amazon.com/Sapiens-Humankind-Yuval-Noah-Harari-ebook/dp/B00ICN066A/).

One of the most important things about people, moreso than the ability to reason, is the ability to create and sustain myths.

Religion (abstracting organized religion as an institution AWAY from the idea of whether or not there's a supreme being) is a very powerful myth. It has done tremendous good in the world, bringing people together, helping people in need, helping people cope with the absurdity of living, helping people feel like they're part of something--a community, a purpose--bigger than themselves. It has also done tremendous evil in the world, and been a major force over the centuries in war, bigotry, and division between people. (Government/nations have done the same, and people over silly divisions like race/etc have also done the same; I'm not singling out religion for this.)

I think the biggest blind spot people have about religion is the sheer volume of wasted time and money it's caused.  Take all of the hours of people praying and going to church (not the peripheral 'good works' but the plain attendance) worldwide and think of that time being put towards actively working towards goals, simply resting, or anything else.  Billions of hours just forfeited.  

Money - not just money donated or tithed, but the trillions? of dollars NOT taken in due to the tax exemption of churches.  Fuck that.  I couldn't avoid taxes by having a college football club, but if I lie and say it's a church of college football, then I can.  It's garbage.  I don't care if it's tied into the birth of this country or not, it's wrong.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 20, 2021, 02:17:07 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 20, 2021, 01:40:09 PM

So, yeah, most people go through life never thinking about any of these myths. If they did, and too many started questioning them, they'd fall like a house of cards, because it's really hard to actually comprehend that they're myths and then at the same time support and sustain them "because they work". Society depends on myths, and myths depend on not being too closely scrutinized lest we realize they're just myths.

As fas as you know they're myths but you really can't prove it either.As Roger Daltry once sang - 


They call me The Seeker
I've been searchin' low and high

I won't get to get what I'm after
Till the day I die

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 20, 2021, 03:35:59 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 20, 2021, 02:06:54 PM

I think the biggest blind spot people have about religion is the sheer volume of wasted time and money it's caused.  Take all of the hours of people praying and going to church (not the peripheral 'good works' but the plain attendance) worldwide and think of that time being put towards actively working towards goals, simply resting, or anything else.  Billions of hours just forfeited. 

Money - not just money donated or tithed, but the trillions? of dollars NOT taken in due to the tax exemption of churches.  Fuck that.  I couldn't avoid taxes by having a college football club, but if I lie and say it's a church of college football, then I can.  It's garbage.  I don't care if it's tied into the birth of this country or not, it's wrong.

Where you're failing is that you've got your own blind spot. That's why I was trying to highlight the good that religion has brought us. It gives people a sense of community. It gives people a sense of purpose. It gives bad people fear of eternal damnation if they kill or rape or steal (some people need that in order to not do bad things). 

Throughout much of history, your social safety net WAS your church community. People helped each other. People organized for members of their congregation who needed it. It gave people a community that was quite durable and strong because they organized together around the most important personal belief in their lives, that being a supreme being. 

Folks who profess that government just a substitute religion for godless liberals aren't completely wrong, either. Government is its own myth. The idea that we should help each other by sending our tax dollars to Washington DC and they'll send money back to people who need it is no different than the idea that we should donate our time and money through our church to help people in need. I could point to all the wasted time and money government has caused, too, because it's not going where *I* want it to. 

It's replacing a small local community with a giant national one, but as I said human beings can't really conceptualize more than ~150 people to be part of a social group (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number). To truly extend beyond that you need myths. You need a myth of "Catholicism" to justify why my tithe should go help whatever charity the Catholic Church is part of. You need a myth of "America" to justify why my tax dollars from California should pay food stamps for someone I don't know and will never meet in Nebraska. Because we're not sending them to help feed someone in Nova Scotia or Oaxaca. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on December 20, 2021, 03:54:31 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 20, 2021, 02:17:07 PM

As fas as you know they're myths but you really can't prove it either.As Roger Daltry once sang -


They call me The Seeker
I've been searchin' low and high

I won't get to get what I'm after
Till the day I die

I asked Timothy Leary, but he wasn't any help.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 20, 2021, 04:12:33 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 20, 2021, 03:35:59 PM

Where you're failing is that you've got your own blind spot. That's why I was trying to highlight the good that religion has brought us. It gives people a sense of community. It gives people a sense of purpose. It gives bad people fear of eternal damnation if they kill or rape or steal (some people need that in order to not do bad things).

Throughout much of history, your social safety net WAS your church community. People helped each other. People organized for members of their congregation who needed it. It gave people a community that was quite durable and strong because they organized together around the most important personal belief in their lives, that being a supreme being.

Folks who profess that government just a substitute religion for godless liberals aren't completely wrong, either. Government is its own myth. The idea that we should help each other by sending our tax dollars to Washington DC and they'll send money back to people who need it is no different than the idea that we should donate our time and money through our church to help people in need. I could point to all the wasted time and money government has caused, too, because it's not going where *I* want it to.

It's replacing a small local community with a giant national one, but as I said human beings can't really conceptualize more than ~150 people to be part of a social group (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number). To truly extend beyond that you need myths. You need a myth of "Catholicism" to justify why my tithe should go help whatever charity the Catholic Church is part of. You need a myth of "America" to justify why my tax dollars from California should pay food stamps for someone I don't know and will never meet in Nebraska. Because we're not sending them to help feed someone in Nova Scotia or Oaxaca.

All of that is well and good, and it is what has occurred with humanity, but it wasn't required to be that.  None of it required the belief in the supernatural. 

Bullshit that explains the unexplained (incorrectly) isn't required in order to have a sense of community or do good things or keep the mentally ill (those who require the threat of a hell in order to not to horrific things) in line.

"The church" was also "the power" and "the money" for much of the society that would eventually dominate the planet.  This is true because at some point, you either joined in or were killed.  Or ostracized.  Or pushed out. 

Zero gods are necessary for charity or aiding others or just giving a damn about other people.  You're citing the sample size of one and saying that's how it had to be.  And I disagree.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 20, 2021, 04:42:35 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 20, 2021, 04:12:33 PM

All of that is well and good, and it is what has occurred with humanity, but it wasn't required to be that.  None of it required the belief in the supernatural. 

Bullshit that explains the unexplained (incorrectly) isn't required in order to have a sense of community or do good things or keep the mentally ill (those who require the threat of a hell in order to not to horrific things) in line.

"The church" was also "the power" and "the money" for much of the society that would eventually dominate the planet.  This is true because at some point, you either joined in or were killed.  Or ostracized.  Or pushed out. 

Zero gods are necessary for charity or aiding others or just giving a damn about other people.  You're citing the sample size of one and saying that's how it had to be.  And I disagree.

Of course none of it "required" the belief in the supernatural. That was specifically why I spoke about organized religion SEPARATE from whether or not the supreme being on which that religion is based actually, you know, exists. 

Guess what, though... No matter what human institution you have, humans are social animals who like to exist in a hierarchy, and the head of that hierarchy is going to have to justify why you should follow him.

• "Grog bigger than you. Follow Grog or Grog club you in head."
• "Pharaoh is a god on earth. Follow Pharoah because he is divine."
• "The Pope is the chosen representative of the Lord. Follow the Pope because the Lord wills it."
• "The King is chosen by God. Follow the King because all Kings are divinely chosen. (Except those Kings from the countries next door--let's go kill them.)"
• "Follow the President because he's got a mandate from the election to enact The Will Of The People. (Except that political parties are coalitions of interest groups that may have very little in common except both parties wanting power, and the President got only 52% of the vote so clearly 48% of 'the people' don't want it.)"

The only intellectually honest one in that bunch is Grog. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 20, 2021, 04:46:49 PM

Yeah, I assume the inventor of gods was someone smaller and smarter than Grog.  After a number of attempts, he finally scared Grog enough to stop getting clubbed over the head.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 20, 2021, 04:49:18 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 20, 2021, 04:46:49 PM

Yeah, I assume the inventor of gods was someone smaller and smarter than Grog.  After a number of attempts, he finally scared Grog enough to stop getting clubbed over the head.

Patton Oswalt beat you to that. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55h1FO8V_3w

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 21, 2021, 09:23:50 AM

I didnt know where else to post this but we need more of this kind of news

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/tyler-linderbaum-iowa-offensive-lineman-donates-30k-from-nil-money-to-local-childrens-hospital/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 21, 2021, 10:01:28 AM

wonder if Tyler is a religious kid?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 21, 2021, 10:09:24 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 21, 2021, 10:01:28 AM

wonder if Tyler is a religious kid?

Stop it...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 21, 2021, 10:25:36 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 20, 2021, 04:42:35 PM

• "Grog bigger than you. Follow Grog or Grog club you in head."

The only intellectually honest one in that bunch is Grog.

Evidently Grog gets mean whether he's drinking grog or not

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 21, 2021, 11:02:42 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 21, 2021, 10:01:28 AM

wonder if Tyler is a religious kid?

If so, then he only did it for the promise of a reward or the threat of punishment after death...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 21, 2021, 11:06:51 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 20, 2021, 01:40:09 PM

A book that I HIGHLY recommend is Sapiens (https://www.amazon.com/Sapiens-Humankind-Yuval-Noah-Harari-ebook/dp/B00ICN066A/).

Haven't read it, but Harari was quoted and referenced heavily in a book I did read last year....I think it was Sapiens, but moreso I remember the author's name than the particular book.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 21, 2021, 11:10:23 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 20, 2021, 01:58:19 PM

Atheists aren't just people who believe there is no god, but it's also everyone who isn't convinced there is a god. 
You're right about the former, their claim that there is no god is bizarre and would need to be supported by evidence.
The latter makes no claim, we're merely not convinced and thus - have no claim to support. 

I'm an atheist because there is nothing anywhere near convincing evidence that any god exists.  It's that simple.

That's not really atheism, that's agnosticism.  And generally, the agnostic position does make a claim:  That they don't know if there's a god, and/or it can't be known if there is a god.  The first claim is simply first-person experience and isn't forward looking, and off the top of my head, wouldn't need support...it's just their current mental state regarding the topic.  The second claim is actually a belief, and it does require support.  Agnostics don't get off the hook in their claims any more than atheists or theists.  Nor should they.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 21, 2021, 11:20:38 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 21, 2021, 11:06:51 AM

Haven't read it, but Harari was quoted and referenced heavily in a book I did read last year....I think it was Sapiens, but moreso I remember the author's name than the particular book. 

He released a second book called Homo Deus that I haven't read, which is more about the future of humanity than the past as I understand it. I need to put that one on my list, but I haven't gotten around to it. 

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 21, 2021, 11:10:23 AM

That's not really atheism, that's agnosticism.  And generally, the agnostic position does make a claim:  That they don't know if there's a god, and/or it can't be known if there is a god.  The first claim is simply first-person experience and isn't forward looking, and off the top of my head, wouldn't need support...it's just their current mental state regarding the topic.  The second claim is actually a belief, and it does require support.  Agnostics don't get off the hook in their claims any more than atheists or theists.  Nor should they. 

I've heard this before, and just don't buy it. From an epistemological sense, it's basically impossible to prove a negative. That doesn't mean that I have to provide evidence that everything I don't believe in doesn't exist. The default position is to withhold belief for things that you cannot prove or have significant evidence DO exist. 

It's like the claim that we're all living in some other much higher order entity's computer simulation. I.e. that we're a version of the video game "The Sims" and we don't know it, or that we're just all in The Matrix and don't realize that our observed reality is a made up construct to satisfy us. 

I don't believe we're in a sim, or that we're in The Matrix. But can I prove that we're not? Of course not. Does that mean that I should consider myself agnostic on the matter, and not claim that I don't believe it? I don't think so.

People tend to apply this test ONLY to the atheism / agnosticism question. I don't believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster either, but it seems that people don't consider me an agnostic on that question, I'm allowed to be a non-believer. 

I'd turn it back on you. Do you believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Well, if you don't, then you need to PROVE it doesn't exist, otherwise you're agnostic on the matter... 

I don't believe you're agnostic on the matter, I think you believe the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist. But you can't prove it, can you?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 21, 2021, 11:22:38 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 20, 2021, 04:12:33 PM

All of that is well and good, and it is what has occurred with humanity, but it wasn't required to be that.  None of it required the belief in the supernatural. 

Bullshit that explains the unexplained (incorrectly) isn't required in order to have a sense of community or do good things or keep the mentally ill (those who require the threat of a hell in order to not to horrific things) in line.

"The church" was also "the power" and "the money" for much of the society that would eventually dominate the planet.  This is true because at some point, you either joined in or were killed.  Or ostracized.  Or pushed out. 

Zero gods are necessary for charity or aiding others or just giving a damn about other people.  You're citing the sample size of one and saying that's how it had to be.  And I disagree.

Sort of the Christopher Hitchens view.

It's impossible to get into typing on a forum.  Fascinating topic for me, though.  I take the opposite view.  Ideas have consequences.  Things like charity arise naturally out of some worldviews and things like will-to-power arise from others.  I think there is an ocean of evidence both historically and philosophically to support the assertion that western civilization, with all its quirks and foibles, is so saturated in Christian values and ethics that the average person can't see it and thus assumes it has no bearing, similar to the tale of the man asking a fish what it's like to live in water and the fish says "What's water?"  (It's so ubiquitous in its life it doesn't recognize that it's a thing...the fish doesn't know anything else and has nothing to compare its experience to.)  We assume that things like goodwill and sacrifice are the natural state of humanity--or can be--but I don't see any reason to think this is the case.  Psychologically, or again, philosophically or historically.  

At any rate, you've already offered more than the average person, so while I disagree, credit for at least thinking about it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 21, 2021, 11:24:25 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 21, 2021, 11:20:38 AM

He released a second book called Homo Deus that I haven't read, which is more about the future of humanity than the past as I understand it. I need to put that one on my list, but I haven't gotten around to it.

That's it.  Homo Deus.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 21, 2021, 11:38:00 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 21, 2021, 11:02:42 AM

If so, then he only did it for the promise of a reward or the threat of punishment after death...

Because you know that how?maybe he has a conscience unlike a yapping little jackel sashaying around these parts masquerading as one in the know

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 21, 2021, 11:43:48 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 21, 2021, 11:22:38 AM

Sort of the Christopher Hitchens view.

It's impossible to get into typing on a forum.  Fascinating topic for me, though.  I take the opposite view.  Ideas have consequences.  Things like charity arise naturally out of some worldviews and things like will-to-power arise from others.  I think there is an ocean of evidence both historically and philosophically to support the assertion that western civilization, with all its quirks and foibles, is so saturated in Christian values and ethics that the average person can't see it and thus assumes it has no bearing, similar to the tale of the man asking a fish what it's like to live in water and the fish says "What's water?"  (It's so ubiquitous in its life it doesn't recognize that it's a thing...the fish doesn't know anything else and has nothing to compare its experience to.)  We assume that things like goodwill and sacrifice are the natural state of humanity--or can be--but I don't see any reason to think this is the case.  Psychologically, or again, philosophically or historically. 

At any rate, you've already offered more than the average person, so while I disagree, credit for at least thinking about it. 

Well said.

I'd argue that "individual rights" or "human rights" are also a myth. A very convenient, very useful, very important myth and one that underpins a lot of our society. 

Back in the old days, we based rights on religion, and law on things like the Ten Commandments. In the modern era, we assume that humans have "natural rights" based on their humanity, and that these rights are inherent in the human condition...

...but rights only exist so far as we all agree and respect them. Your "right" to life is only as strong as your ability to evade Jeffrey Dahmer, or Pol Pot, or the cruise missile. 

The argument that much of Western society is steeped in Judeo-Christian values is IMHO obvious. Where we differ is in the question of whether Christian values are sent down to us from a benevolent Creator, or whether humans invented Judaism and Christianity because it's a lot easier to justify "human rights" by an appeal to authority (Creator) than it is to just invent them and convince people they exist. 

We likely have the concept of unique and individual human rights likely FROM the Judeo-Christian tradition, and today we've invented secular replacements for them. We can argue about belief and whether there is a Creator, but either way humanity needs the myth of unique and individual human rights to thrive. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 21, 2021, 11:55:28 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 21, 2021, 11:43:48 AM

...but rights only exist so far as we all agree and respect them. Your "right" to life is only as strong as your ability to evade Jeffrey Dahmer, or Pol Pot, or the cruise missile.

You left out the great siberian itch,the Dreaded Lurgi, or swamp ass.Great point though

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 21, 2021, 12:13:47 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 21, 2021, 11:20:38 AM

I've heard this before, and just don't buy it. From an epistemological sense, it's basically impossible to prove a negative. That doesn't mean that I have to provide evidence that everything I don't believe in doesn't exist. The default position is to withhold belief for things that you cannot prove or have significant evidence DO exist.

It's like the claim that we're all living in some other much higher order entity's computer simulation. I.e. that we're a version of the video game "The Sims" and we don't know it, or that we're just all in The Matrix and don't realize that our observed reality is a made up construct to satisfy us.

I don't believe we're in a sim, or that we're in The Matrix. But can I prove that we're not? Of course not. Does that mean that I should consider myself agnostic on the matter, and not claim that I don't believe it? I don't think so.

People tend to apply this test ONLY to the atheism / agnosticism question. I don't believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster either, but it seems that people don't consider me an agnostic on that question, I'm allowed to be a non-believer.

I'd turn it back on you. Do you believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Well, if you don't, then you need to PROVE it doesn't exist, otherwise you're agnostic on the matter...

I don't believe you're agnostic on the matter, I think you believe the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist. But you can't prove it, can you?

And I've heard this before, I don't don't buy it.  You'll have to pardon me, I'm sure this will be a lot clunkier than the much more articulate thinkers I'm drawing from.  

You seem to be referring to Properly Basic Beliefs--beliefs which are appropriately grounded and may be rationally accepted as basic beliefs not grounded in argument.  i.e.--neither of us think we're living in The Matrix, we can't prove that, but for reasons I can't get into here, qualifies as rational thought.  Or again, the belief that betarhoalphadelta is a person on the other end of these interwebz wire thingys.  I can't prove that.  Could be a bot beyond what I know bots to be capable of, could be I'm delusional and I'm making you up.  I can't prove that's not the case, however I'm justified in thinking you are a real person.  The agnostic is not being asked to prove such a negative.  

The flying spaghetti monster is a famous example getting into the philosophical concept of "Possible Worlds," which you may know about, and if not, I don't have the capacity to get into here.  Here I'll just say I don't think it's helpful or particularly relevant for the discussion at hand.  

That's all beside the point.  The agnostic absolutely makes a positive claim when they say "We can't know if there's a god."  That is a claim which requires at least some support. 

We can't know if there's really a sun.  Technically true, much like the Matrix, but we can assign properties of being to what we mean when we say "sun" and then there's a threshold of rationally acceptable evidence for such a thing.  

We also can't know if there's a Loch Ness monster, would be a similar claim.  Again there has to be some definable qualities assigned to whatever/whomever, and failing to find such a thing may leave one without proof of its nonexistence, but finding sufficient evidence of something matching those qualities is a logically possible outcome which would negate the positive idea of not being able to know if it exists.  If it is logically possible to know if something exists, then the agnostic does not get to wave their hand and magically dismiss the burden of proof he seeks to put on everyone else when they say "it's not possible to know." 

"God" may be assigned qualities*, and then there is either sufficient evidence for this being or not, the presence of said evidence making the original claim incorrect.  It would probably be more correct to say "We can't know that there's no god."  Proving that would be proving a negative, but that's a position more likely to be held by a theist.  In saying we can't know something, the agnostic makes as positive a claim as the theist in asserting God exists, and the atheist in asserting God does not exist.  Only, the agnostic does not make a claim about existence, but rather about knowledge.  That still is an assertion which requires support.  

That is why I say I accept the agnostic (statement 1, if you will):  "I don't know if there's a God."  Fair.  Maybe the evidence of lack of evidence isn't enough to move someone firmly either direction.  But the agnostic statement 2:  "We can't know...." 1) is a positive statement  2) in asking for support is not being asked to prove a negative  3) thus requires support.  


*This is not unimportant.  People need to be sure they're referring to the same thing, or person, in a topic like this.  Most arguments from popular atheists present arguments against a being that I, as a theist, don't believe in either.  Sometimes people tell me "I don't believe in God" and my first thought is "Which God don't you believe in?  Because I can point you to a lot of televangelists or cults or what have you, or a Sistine Chapel painting of some bearded Santa Clause looking grandpa surrounded by cherubim, and I don't believe in that guy either."  This is where most popular atheistic authors and thinkers lose me....most often they set up straw men and then proceed to knock them down, which doesn't move me at all.  And while they clearly don't do enough research, they're not entirely to blame for this, which brings me to my earlier statement about Christians in a previous post.  The reason why a lot of non-theists have concepts of God I'm not even interested in engaging in--because I find that "god" equally ridiculous--is because on the whole, Christians have done a crap job of conveying or even understanding what they (supposedly) believe.  I shouldn't criticize too harshly though, I fell in that category most of my life. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 21, 2021, 12:27:36 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 21, 2021, 11:43:48 AM

Well said.

I'd argue that "individual rights" or "human rights" are also a myth. A very convenient, very useful, very important myth and one that underpins a lot of our society.

Back in the old days, we based rights on religion, and law on things like the Ten Commandments. In the modern era, we assume that humans have "natural rights" based on their humanity, and that these rights are inherent in the human condition...

...but rights only exist so far as we all agree and respect them. Your "right" to life is only as strong as your ability to evade Jeffrey Dahmer, or Pol Pot, or the cruise missile.

The argument that much of Western society is steeped in Judeo-Christian values is IMHO obvious. Where we differ is in the question of whether Christian values are sent down to us from a benevolent Creator, or whether humans invented Judaism and Christianity because it's a lot easier to justify "human rights" by an appeal to authority (Creator) than it is to just invent them and convince people they exist.

We likely have the concept of unique and individual human rights likely FROM the Judeo-Christian tradition, and today we've invented secular replacements for them. We can argue about belief and whether there is a Creator, but either way humanity needs the myth of unique and individual human rights to thrive.

I suppose it matters what you mean when you say "myth."  That word can mean only a story, or it can mean a true thing about life, or history, which is also an explanatory story, or a third thing, a category that we might call "mytho-history."  Jordan Peterson's "Maps Of Meaning" is a pretty dense read, but a fascinating secular look at what myth is and how its necessity factors into the human experience.  

Anyway, you raised an interesting point of ontological grounding for morality.  We don't really need such for subjective morality.  But if there is to be any absolute, objective morality, that has to be grounded in something.  This is one of the strongest points in theism's favor, in my opinion.  I've read a lot of different attempts to ground such a thing in something other than God, but I haven't seen anything nearly as coherent and explanatory as something like Divine Command Theory.  The urge in today's post-modern culture is to deny absolute morality, but I've found that when pressed, most people really don't believe that, and seem to think some things are truly, definitely evil.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 21, 2021, 03:00:55 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 21, 2021, 12:13:47 PM

That's all beside the point.  The agnostic absolutely makes a positive claim when they say "We can't know if there's a god."  That is a claim which requires at least some support. 

I agree. We can't know if there isn't, but we CAN know if there is. As you say, if we agree on the idea/qualities of what a "God" is, and we find definitive proof of its/his/hers (I know know God's preferred pronoun) existence, then we can know. 

That said, it's difficult. We assign God certain attributes/qualities that we define as supernatural, and yet we inhabit and observe the natural world. But I suppose that God being God, God could reveal existence to us in the natural world in such a way as we might "know" of God's existence. 

But your point is heard. Anyone who claims we can't know something exists is a claim that's not particularly defensible. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 21, 2021, 03:04:48 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 21, 2021, 12:27:36 PM

I suppose it matters what you mean when you say "myth."  That word can mean only a story, or it can mean a true thing about life, or history, which is also an explanatory story, or a third thing, a category that we might call "mytho-history."  Jordan Peterson's "Maps Of Meaning" is a pretty dense read, but a fascinating secular look at what myth is and how its necessity factors into the human experience. 

Anyway, you raised an interesting point of ontological grounding for morality.  We don't really need such for subjective morality.  But if there is to be any absolute, objective morality, that has to be grounded in something.  This is one of the strongest points in theism's favor, in my opinion.  I've read a lot of different attempts to ground such a thing in something other than God, but I haven't seen anything nearly as coherent and explanatory as something like Divine Command Theory.  The urge in today's post-modern culture is to deny absolute morality, but I've found that when pressed, most people really don't believe that, and seem to think some things are truly, definitely evil. 

My point is whether or not God exists, whether or not God exists in the Judeo-Christian tradition or not, the myth is important for humanity. 

Myths can be true, or they can be false. They don't have to be true to be useful, but in my parlance, "myth" doesn't necessarily imply falsehood. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 21, 2021, 04:02:34 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 21, 2021, 11:10:23 AM

That's not really atheism, that's agnosticism.  And generally, the agnostic position does make a claim:  That they don't know if there's a god, and/or it can't be known if there is a god.  The first claim is simply first-person experience and isn't forward looking, and off the top of my head, wouldn't need support...it's just their current mental state regarding the topic.  The second claim is actually a belief, and it does require support.  Agnostics don't get off the hook in their claims any more than atheists or theists.  Nor should they. 

Atheism and theism aren't separate options from agnosticism.

You can be an agnostic atheist or an agnostic theist, which as you said, says we can't know if a god exists.  Technically you're right that they make a claim that requires support, but in reality we have no actual way of knowing one way or the other.  Being ticky-tack with agnosticism isn't really productive.

A vast majority of atheists are agnostic atheists because they're smart enough to know that suggesting certainty for something unfalsifiable is as silly as believing in a god and would take on the burden of proof.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 21, 2021, 04:13:54 PM

We're not fish swimming in a judeo-christian sea.  We may have been at some point, but that would have been a low point, imo.

The ten commandments are very nearly garbage, as the first 3 are about how easily-offended that god is.  The rest are obvious things - and yes, I can say they're obvious, because when they're done to you, you feel shitty and angry and victimized.  It's the simplistic golden rule idea.  Gee, when someone I can about is murdered, I hate it.  When someone takes something of mine, I hate it.  When someone lies and makes other people think less of me, I hate it.  So if I do any of those things to someone else, they hate it.  And these are people I have to live with and among.

Duh.

But no mention of slavery being bad.  No encouragement to not rape anybody.  Those might have been a little better than "Don't take the lord's name in vain." 

Humanism or the golden rule or whatever you'd like to call it is vastly superior to the ten commandments.  The judeo-christian sea so many people MAY be swimming in is full of absurdity, guilt, and horse shit.  It's a list of rules obviously made by bronze-age goat herding men, and it's unimpressive.

*I do enjoy the discussion, tho

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 21, 2021, 04:27:32 PM

My neighbor's father, who has Parkinsons, fell and hit his head this morning.  He has been sitting in a hospital hallway, by himself, for 6 hours, waiting for a room, but they are all filled with unvaccinated COVID patients.  His wife dropped him off, but isn't allowed in until he's admitted to a room.  I'm sorry, but it's time to start kicking some/all of these assholes out into the hallway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 21, 2021, 05:20:37 PM

How many of those rooms are actually filled with Covid patients though?

Down here, Covid patients account for 5-10 percent of the ICU beds, which are running close to 85 percent capacity. So, 75-80 percent of the beds are actually occupied by Covid patients.

This is important data to understand.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 21, 2021, 05:21:13 PM

And we are now almost through the shortest day of the year. It's all up from here!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 21, 2021, 05:48:36 PM

Quote from: ELA on December 21, 2021, 04:27:32 PM

My neighbor's father, who has Parkinsons, fell and hit his head this morning.  He has been sitting in a hospital hallway, by himself, for 6 hours, waiting for a room, but they are all filled with unvaccinated COVID patients.  His wife dropped him off, but isn't allowed in until he's admitted to a room.  I'm sorry, but it's time to start kicking some/all of these assholes out into the hallway.

what city and state did this happen

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 21, 2021, 06:14:26 PM

Quote from: ELA on December 21, 2021, 04:27:32 PM

My neighbor's father, who has Parkinsons, fell and hit his head this morning.  He has been sitting in a hospital hallway, by himself, for 6 hours, waiting for a room, but they are all filled with unvaccinated COVID patients.  His wife dropped him off, but isn't allowed in until he's admitted to a room.  I'm sorry, but it's time to start kicking some/all of these assholes out into the hallway.

Sorry Adam... Hopefully he gets roomed and handled soon. 

Best wishes for a full and hopefully speedy recovery.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 21, 2021, 06:26:12 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 21, 2021, 05:20:37 PM

How many of those rooms are actually filled with Covid patients though?

Down here, Covid patients account for 5-10 percent of the ICU beds, which are running close to 85 percent capacity. So, 75-80 percent of the beds are actually occupied by Covid patients.

This is important data to understand.

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 21, 2021, 05:48:36 PM

what city and state did this happen

The nurse told her mother that it was "almost entirely" unvaccinated COVID patients 

Buffalo, NY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 21, 2021, 06:28:23 PM

Hospitals should give unvaccinated COVID patients a cot outside.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 21, 2021, 06:32:43 PM

Costco was out of boneless leg of lamb... So I went down to the Persian market a mile from my house instead. On the phone they said they had boneless... But apparently not. 

So I've got a 9# bone-in leg of lamb. 

This doesn't look so hard, right? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PilJ5yym0Ow

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 21, 2021, 07:35:35 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 21, 2021, 05:20:37 PM

How many of those rooms are actually filled with Covid patients though?

Down here, Covid patients account for 5-10 percent of the ICU beds, which are running close to 85 percent capacity. So, 75-80 percent of the beds are actually not occupied by Covid patients.

This is important data to understand.

FIFY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 21, 2021, 08:33:39 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 21, 2021, 06:32:43 PM

Costco was out of boneless leg of lamb... So I went down to the Persian market a mile from my house instead. On the phone they said they had boneless... But apparently not.

So I've got a 9# bone-in leg of lamb.

This doesn't look so hard, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PilJ5yym0Ow

First you take the bone and beat the Persian market guy over the head with it for lying to you. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 21, 2021, 09:25:53 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 21, 2021, 05:21:13 PM

And we are now almost through the shortest day of the year. It's all up from here!!

The three broads that I work alongside had no idea what I meant by that, and thought that I was implying that the day was going to be less than 24 hours. So from their vantage point I suppose that the "spring forward" time change would be the shortest day of the year. O0

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 22, 2021, 08:15:50 AM

Three Broads? You're a romantic I'll give you that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 22, 2021, 08:49:01 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 21, 2021, 06:32:43 PM

Costco was out of boneless leg of lamb... So I went down to the Persian market a mile from my house instead. On the phone they said they had boneless... But apparently not.

So I've got a 9# bone-in leg of lamb.

This doesn't look so hard, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PilJ5yym0Ow

How many times did you cut your hands?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 22, 2021, 09:43:19 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 22, 2021, 08:49:01 AM

How many times did you cut your hands?

Watching the video? Zero...

Not cooking it until Christmas Eve.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 22, 2021, 09:49:14 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 22, 2021, 09:43:19 AM

Watching the video? Zero...

Not cooking it until Christmas Eve.

You hosting?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 22, 2021, 10:05:26 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 21, 2021, 03:00:55 PM

I agree. We can't know if there isn't, but we CAN know if there is. As you say, if we agree on the idea/qualities of what a "God" is, and we find definitive proof of its/his/hers (I know know God's preferred pronoun) existence, then we can know.

I'd modify that for all sides.  Don't mean to get turdy with semantics, but "proof" is only possible in mathematics and is an unreasonable standard.  I like to go with sufficient evidence, or strong evidence, or whatever you'd like to call it.  There's always some ad hoc explanation that jumps through whatever hoops necessary that can't be falsified, but which is logically possible, and precludes "proof" of something.  

What I think is important is for positions to meet some scientific standards, so to speak.  The philosophy of science, not the measuring-in-a-test-tube practice of science, I mean.  Something either needs to be falsifiable, or it should meet the criteria for inference-to-best-explanation.  Preferably both.  Otherwise, we're just arbitrarily asserting whatever we want to be true.  

The principle of falsifiability is something I think is overlooked, and shouldn't be.  If we're going to have a serious worldview on something like this, or anything, there needs to be some standard by which we could be shown to be wrong.  But I don't think the average person has ever thought about what their criteria for falsifiability would be. 

So for example, when you say "We can't know if there's a God," then by what metric(s) could you be shown to be wrong?  If an atheist says "There's no God," same thing, what conditions need to be met in order to show that's wrong?  If a theist says "There is a God," same thing again.  If it's not falsifiable, then I don't consider it a strong or worthwhile stance.  

And again, I think "proof" is overly burdensome and not realistic.  All that's needed is a reasonable standard of evidence and a paradigm of falsifiability that can plausibly be shown is avoided, and I think you've got a reasonable position. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 22, 2021, 10:07:39 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 21, 2021, 03:04:48 PM

My point is whether or not God exists, whether or not God exists in the Judeo-Christian tradition or not, the myth is important for humanity.

Myths can be true, or they can be false. They don't have to be true to be useful, but in my parlance, "myth" doesn't necessarily imply falsehood.

I used to chafe against that notion, but these days I've come to think it's a near absolute certainty.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 22, 2021, 10:17:05 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 21, 2021, 04:13:54 PM

We're not fish swimming in a judeo-christian sea.  We may have been at some point, but that would have been a low point, imo.

The ten commandments are very nearly garbage, as the first 3 are about how easily-offended that god is.  The rest are obvious things - and yes, I can say they're obvious, because when they're done to you, you feel shitty and angry and victimized.  It's the simplistic golden rule idea.  Gee, when someone I can about is murdered, I hate it.  When someone takes something of mine, I hate it.  When someone lies and makes other people think less of me, I hate it.  So if I do any of those things to someone else, they hate it.  And these are people I have to live with and among.

Duh.

But no mention of slavery being bad.  No encouragement to not rape anybody.  Those might have been a little better than "Don't take the lord's name in vain." 

Humanism or the golden rule or whatever you'd like to call it is vastly superior to the ten commandments.  The judeo-christian sea so many people MAY be swimming in is full of absurdity, guilt, and horse shit.  It's a list of rules obviously made by bronze-age goat herding men, and it's unimpressive.

*I do enjoy the discussion, tho

I do too, and I wish this platform lent itself to more detailed discussion and a better back and forth.  Because you've raised a lot of common (and legitimate) concerns about Christianity in particular (maybe theism in general).  They all have satisfactory answers and I think you're seriously misreading/mischaracterizing/misunderstanding the worldview you're taking aim at there, but unfortunately this isn't format to lay it out.  If you think I'm TLDR in normal circumstances, even if I had time to type the wall of text that is rolling around in my head after reading that, I'm pretty sure no one here would read it. 

I would offer that your final statement, to use your own language, is a summation of diatribes obviously made by a possibly angry person who doesn't seem to understand the tenets of Christianity at all and has constructed a straw man to attack, and it's unimpressive.  (If that sounds unproductive....well, yeah.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 22, 2021, 10:26:10 AM

Quote from: ELA on December 21, 2021, 04:27:32 PM

I'm sorry, but it's time to start kicking some/all of these assholes out into the hallway.

Working in the medical field, that's the spirit! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 22, 2021, 10:38:58 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 22, 2021, 10:17:05 AM

I would offer that your final statement, to use your own language, is a summation of diatribes obviously made by a possibly angry person who doesn't seem to understand the tenets of Christianity at all and has constructed a straw man to attack, and it's unimpressive.  (If that sounds unproductive....well, yeah.)

Not angry at all....sort of frustrated how such an absurdity ever gained traction in the first place and came to be the dominant ideology for the society I was born into.  
I do find it funny how you use the phrase "tenets of christianity" as if there's one set.  Which sect?  Which tenets?  Do you need to be orthodox?  If not, why not?  Do you need to be baptized?  Do your good works matter?  Can you speak in tongues?  Find Jesus' image in toast?  Is everything good a gift and everything bad something you deserve?  Do you merely need to let Jesus into your heart?  Is the cracker you eat twice a year the actual flesh of your god?  Does a few words of prayer absolve you of your sins?  

Allow me an art analogy:  christianity claims to be the perfect color, while incorporating the entire color wheel.  It's silly.  It'd be embarrassing if it wasn't so widespread....which, for an outsider, makes it look more embarrassing for its practitioners.  

We've whittled down the gods from the thousands down to the hundreds down to one......we'll all be better off when that number is zero.  That's a claim on the future with no evidence.  But I find it childishly obvious.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 22, 2021, 10:42:58 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 22, 2021, 10:05:26 AM

So for example, when you say "We can't know if there's a God," then by what metric(s) could you be shown to be wrong?  If an atheist says "There's no God," same thing, what conditions need to be met in order to show that's wrong?  If a theist says "There is a God," same thing again.  If it's not falsifiable, then I don't consider it a strong or worthwhile stance. 

I know it was just a joke made upthread, but if every time I entered a church there was a thunderclap, or weird crap started happening, I'd certainly rethink my position on the matter :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 22, 2021, 10:47:50 AM

0% of people pleading to be struck down by a god while taking it's name in vain have been struck down at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 22, 2021, 10:48:52 AM

Studies have shown that prayer works at the same rate as chance, except when someone knows they're being prayed for, in which it works less.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 22, 2021, 10:54:45 AM

MANY religious claims have been deemed false by scientific inquiry.
No scientific theory has ever been deemed false by a religious discovery.
The only thing that has ever improved upon scientific discovery is further scientific discovery.



lol, I think I just came up with an original oxymoron!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 22, 2021, 11:08:40 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 22, 2021, 08:15:50 AM

Three Broads? You're a romantic I'll give you that

One of them objects to being called a lady, so I'm kind of painted into a corner here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 22, 2021, 11:10:31 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 22, 2021, 10:47:50 AM

0% of people pleading to be struck down by a god while taking it's name in vain have been struck down at all.

you don't know this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 22, 2021, 11:12:28 AM

Betcha a dollar.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 22, 2021, 11:43:05 AM

Pennsylvania golfer died last weekend after being struck by lightning on a golf course.

Joseph Slivinski, 71, was playing at Pine Hills Golf Course in Taylor, Pa., when a storm rolled through Lackawanna County. Slivinski and his group were attempting to seek shelter when the strike occured.

Slivinski was a United States Army veteran who served in the Vietnam War. He was the former owner of a soft materials design shop and later worked in engineering, according to the Daily Voice. He was a regular at Pine Hills, where regulars say he was beloved.

It is the second lightning-related death on a golf course this year, following an incident in New Jersey in June. These are believed to be the first lightning-strike deaths on a golf course since 2017 according to the Lightning Safety Council.


https://www.golfdigest.com/story/golfer-lightning-army-2021 (https://www.golfdigest.com/story/golfer-lightning-army-2021)

_________________________________________________ ________________

we may never know if Joe was cursing at that moment

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 22, 2021, 11:59:11 AM

Playing 9 at the exec course today. No rain or lightning in the forecast, so if I get smote today, OAM might want to start going to church. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on December 22, 2021, 12:12:33 PM

(https://c.tenor.com/eFcCuza0nDYAAAAd/hurricane-irma.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 22, 2021, 12:38:25 PM

undeniable PROOF

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 22, 2021, 12:40:30 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/269837563_1067133614044733_602576006241854380_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=FeZ258wRWLgAX8PluWa&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT-98i3VH4ujEZuJK82F-e_jRdwGZHG9a3cJ6KkCRT7iCA&oe=61C825E3)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 22, 2021, 01:05:50 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 22, 2021, 11:59:11 AM

Playing 9 at the exec course today. No rain or lightning in the forecast, so if I get smote today, OAM might want to start going to church.

:D smote-smitten what ever

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 22, 2021, 01:09:03 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 22, 2021, 10:48:52 AM

Studies have shown that prayer works at the same rate as chance, except when someone knows they're being prayed for, in which it works less.

Bollocks I once prayed like hell then bet like crazy and it didn't end 50-50 the VIG be damned

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 22, 2021, 01:14:59 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 22, 2021, 12:40:30 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/269837563_1067133614044733_602576006241854380_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=FeZ258wRWLgAX8PluWa&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT-98i3VH4ujEZuJK82F-e_jRdwGZHG9a3cJ6KkCRT7iCA&oe=61C825E3)

Do the folks in Lincoln know Twitter isn't messenger pigeons?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 22, 2021, 01:15:13 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 22, 2021, 10:42:58 AM

I know it was just a joke made upthread, but if every time I entered a church there was a thunderclap, or weird crap started happening, I'd certainly rethink my position on the matter :57:

No atheists in fox holes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 22, 2021, 02:52:20 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 22, 2021, 12:40:30 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/269837563_1067133614044733_602576006241854380_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=FeZ258wRWLgAX8PluWa&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT-98i3VH4ujEZuJK82F-e_jRdwGZHG9a3cJ6KkCRT7iCA&oe=61C825E3)

So some dood from Miami has 17,000 twitter accounts?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 22, 2021, 03:34:59 PM

The last time I entered a church it burst into flames. There might be something to this...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 22, 2021, 04:25:40 PM

Oof. On a par 29 course I just shot a 41. I carded an 8 on the easiest hole on the course, normally ~60 yards but playing ~35 with tees and pin up front. I could have scored better on that hole only using my putter. 

Should I take this as evidence that God was punishing me for talking sh!t, or just that I suck at golf?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 22, 2021, 04:50:20 PM

golf is hard, and you suck

;)

no worries, happens to all golfers

have a beer or three

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 22, 2021, 05:05:47 PM

Wings Wednesday at the small town bar

$0.44 wings while they last

I better get moving!

$2.50 Budweisers during happy hour!

I can't afford to stay sober!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 22, 2021, 05:24:51 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 22, 2021, 04:50:20 PM

golf is hard, and you suck

;)

no worries, happens to all golfers

have a beer or three

The goal was a tune-up before I play the same exec course with my son on Sunday. 

Hoping I got the embarrassing crap out of my system and I can light up the scorecard then lol...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 22, 2021, 06:37:45 PM

Alpha Beta is gonna get beat by his own son.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 22, 2021, 06:45:43 PM

Like a rented mule

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Kris60 on December 22, 2021, 08:06:05 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 22, 2021, 04:25:40 PM

Oof. On a par 29 course I just shot a 41. I carded an 8 on the easiest hole on the course, normally ~60 yards but playing ~35 with tees and pin up front. I could have scored better on that hole only using my putter.

Should I take this as evidence that God was punishing me for talking sh!t, or just that I suck at golf?

So, you were on pace to shoot 24 over?  If I shot 24 over and someone asked me how I played my response would be, “Not that bad actually.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 22, 2021, 08:15:14 PM

K60 tell the Mountaineers Manchin's got some cajones - and some common sense

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 22, 2021, 08:32:19 PM

Y'all would be in trouble out here. 

(https://golfaficionadomag.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Sand-Hollow-15th-Hole-scaled.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 22, 2021, 09:34:25 PM

Quote from: Kris60 on December 22, 2021, 08:06:05 PM

So, you were on pace to shoot 24 over?  If I shot 24 over and someone asked me how I played my response would be, “Not that bad actually.”

Probably not on this course. Golf anywhere is hard, but it's like being graded on an extremely generous curve...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 23, 2021, 02:29:39 AM

Don't watch the new Matrix movie when you're in-and-out of sleep.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 23, 2021, 09:19:16 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 22, 2021, 05:24:51 PM

The goal was a tune-up before I play the same exec course with my son on Sunday.

Hoping I got the embarrassing crap out of my system and I can light up the scorecard then lol...

then mission accomplished cause, as you know, you rarely play the same the next time out

and with the experience on the 35 yard hole, just use your putter on the tee ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 23, 2021, 09:20:04 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on December 22, 2021, 08:32:19 PM

Y'all would be in trouble out here.

(https://golfaficionadomag.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Sand-Hollow-15th-Hole-scaled.jpg)

load the cart with beer and ice!
FORE!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 23, 2021, 09:43:01 AM

https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1473959773028638720?t=_JgmpzOnmkWkOY0bZbL5ig&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 23, 2021, 10:30:55 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 22, 2021, 09:34:25 PM

Probably not on this course. Golf anywhere is hard, but it's like being graded on an extremely generous curve...

going through some old pics from 2004, noticed I was at the Roshambo Winery on Westside Road in Healdsburg.
With a quick google search it appears that placed failed and is no longer
we visited 3 wineries that day.  Roshambo wasn't my favorite

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 23, 2021, 11:11:41 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 23, 2021, 10:30:55 AM

going through some old pics from 2004, noticed I was at the Roshambo Winery on Westside Road in Healdsburg.
With a quick google search it appears that placed failed and is no longer
we visited 3 wineries that day.  Roshambo wasn't my favorite

I've been there! Cool logo/swag, cool grounds; I don't particularly recall anything positive about the quality of the wine lol... Probably why it failed. 

I first found Westside Road trying to get from Korbel out on the Russian River back to Healdsburg without driving all the way back to where River Road hit the 101. I saw on the map that it connected River Road to Healdsburg and figured I'd give it a try. The first part of Westside Road (heading east from River Road) was a goat track... Narrow, windy, in dense forest. But then it just opened onto Sonoma Valley and was dotted with a bunch of wineries.

On that trip I ended up picking one, called Belvedere (no longer in operation, sadly), and had the most amazing Zinfandel of my life--it was the start of my love of Zinfandel from the Russian River and Dry Creek Valley regions. On a later trip the goal was to hit several wineries on that road, and Roshambo was one of them. I also really liked Hop Kiln, but that also failed I believe. Really cool place. It looks like the grounds are now owned by Landmark Winery (https://www.landmarkwine.com/visit-landmark/tasting-tour-russian-river-valley/), but I don't know if the wine is any good. 

My next wine trip will be Paso Robles in March... But I'm going to have to find a way to get up to Napa/Sonoma sometime in 2022. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 23, 2021, 11:16:22 AM

Quote from: ELA on December 22, 2021, 09:49:14 AM

You hosting?

We typically host Christmas Eve, but this year the plan was to go to my wife's friend's house because she's got a 4 year old and an infant, so we thought it would be easier. That also is easier as our giant dog won't terrorize the 4 year old. 

But we just learned last night that the little one has RSV, so we're going to have to postpone until Jan 1. 

Now I'm in a quandary. I *think* I could describe the leg of lamb as being packed in cryovac, so I can probably just keep it refrigerated until then. Or, I can debone it, roll it, and twine it up, vac-seal and freeze it until ~2 days before to defrost. 

I think I'm going to just keep it refrigerated. I hate freezing meat when I don't have to, especially when it's for a special event. 

BTW I also got some Kasseri cheese to light on fire. Opa!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 23, 2021, 11:17:38 AM

Temecula has some nice wine places. Not too far from your domicile. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 23, 2021, 11:32:15 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 23, 2021, 11:17:38 AM

Temecula has some nice wine places. Not too far from your domicile.

Yeah, been there a handful of times. 

Now that we're no longer estranged from my brother, we'll probably end up out there with them at some point. They go out there more often than we do and I think they're a member at one of the places. 

We actually have a couple of decent wineries right here in Orange County too. If anyone here happens to find your way out to visit this sh!thole state, let me know and I'll show ya around...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 23, 2021, 12:02:50 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 23, 2021, 11:32:15 AM

Yeah, been there a handful of times.

Now that we're no longer estranged from my brother, we'll probably end up out there with them at some point. They go out there more often than we do and I think they're a member at one of the places.

We actually have a couple of decent wineries right here in Orange County too. If anyone here happens to find your way out to visit this sh!thole state, let me know and I'll show ya around...

I feel like you shared some of those details, but I don't remember them clearly and am not asking after them. But I highlight this to say, I am happy to hear about the bolded, even if my lack of details is probably papering over something far more complex. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 23, 2021, 12:32:01 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 23, 2021, 11:32:15 AM

We actually have a couple of decent wineries right here in Orange County too. If anyone here happens to find your way out to visit this sh!thole state, let me know and I'll show ya around...

I visited back in 1976.  Family 3 week driving vacation from NW Iowa.  I was 14 and doing some of the driving.

we hit Disneyland and Knott's Berry Farm, then headed for the Grand Canyon.
If/when I get back to Cali, I'd rather be north of Orange County or south of there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on December 23, 2021, 12:54:56 PM

As suspected,  Russ Rose is retiring.  (2 million years at Penn St.  7 ncaa vball titles). I've interviewed him many times.   Grade A smart ass, great quote, incredible coach.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 23, 2021, 01:18:32 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on December 23, 2021, 12:02:50 PM

I feel like you shared some of those details, but I don't remember them clearly and am not asking after them. But I highlight this to say, I am happy to hear about the bolded, even if my lack of details is probably papering over something far more complex.

Yeah, it's good that it's handled. Especially since we're two Chicago->CA transplants and now live about 15-20 minutes apart. 

Quote from: FearlessF on December 23, 2021, 12:32:01 PM

we hit Disneyland and Knott's Berry Farm, then headed for the Grand Canyon.
If/when I get back to Cali, I'd rather be north of Orange County or south of there

Orange County is a pretty boring place to visit, to be honest. People with kids like Disney & Knott's, and adults who grew up here usually have a very sentimental attachment to Disney. But beyond that, OC has some nice beach communities but so does the entire rest of the state. OC is a great place to live, San Diego is a better place to visit. (San Diego County is also a nice place to live BTW--not knocking it.)

Although I'd amend your statement... I'd rather be north of LA County or south of Orange County. LA sucks. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 23, 2021, 01:23:34 PM

agreed, when I said north I meant at least as far north as Santa Barbara

been to San Diego a couple times - Torrey Pines golf course is great but maybe a bit over rated 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 23, 2021, 01:27:23 PM

I'm amazed at the depth and breadth of the obsession over some spoiled grape juice.  Although it's no more silly than obsessing over 20 year olds playing football.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 23, 2021, 08:02:13 PM

We came back a day early, the weather unusually went south.  And we leave for Orlando Christmas Day to meet up with grandkids from France.

Not my favorite city of course but they should like it.

I'm rather glad we came back early really, I've never seen weather that bad in Hawaii on the Kohala Coast.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 23, 2021, 08:32:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 23, 2021, 01:27:23 PM

I'm amazed at the depth and breadth of the obsession over some spoiled grape juice.  Although it's no more silly than obsessing over 20 year olds playing football.

I've heard that freaky people will argue for days over the regional differences and relative quality of BBQ, too.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 23, 2021, 09:09:51 PM

No argument Carolina's the best

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 23, 2021, 09:29:15 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 23, 2021, 09:09:51 PM

No argument Carolina's the best

Like I said-- freaky people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 23, 2021, 09:37:53 PM

https://247sports.com/college/nebraska/LongFormArticle/Big-Ten-football-coaches-unveil-favorite-Christmas-movie-179031876/#179031876_3 (https://247sports.com/college/nebraska/LongFormArticle/Big-Ten-football-coaches-unveil-favorite-Christmas-movie-179031876/#179031876_3)

The Big Ten Network polled almost all of the Big Ten coaches at Big Ten Media Days and asked which Christmas movie topped their list.

SCOTT FROST, NEBRASKA

National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation. Scott Frost sticks with some of his Big Ten West comrades, but he also likes Love Actually which gives him some major brownie points with the "Rom-Coms Are Good" Hyve.

TOM ALLEN, INDIANA

Home Alone. The fact that Tom Allen is the only Big Ten coach to pick Home Alone is an absolute crime. The Wet Bandits are coming to their houses and Kevin McAlister will not be there to protect them.

KIRK FERENTZ, IOWA

N/A. Kirk Ferentz punted on the answer which was so on brand because everyone knows that Iowa punts to win. So Ferentz is the real winner here. But now the question remains: Has Ferentz ever watched a movie? Or does he just spend every waking breathing second figuring out different ways to kick the snot out of Iowa State? If that's the case, then you just have to tip your cap. Iowa has beaten the Cyclones six years in a row and 10 out of the last 13 times.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 23, 2021, 09:39:10 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 23, 2021, 01:27:23 PM

I'm amazed at the depth and breadth of the obsession over some spoiled grape juice.  Although it's no more silly than obsessing over 20 year olds playing football.

I sometimes wonder about culture.

I'm a 43 year old upper middle class white male.

I'm into:

• Wine
• Cigars
• Whiskey/bourbon/scotch
• Steakhouses
• Golf
• Classic rock.

These things all feel completely natural to me... And yet they're all the things that my SES cohort like...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 23, 2021, 09:42:07 PM

and Big Ten West Football

we have many tastes in common

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 23, 2021, 09:51:43 PM

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — The Board of Supervisors in San Francisco were meeting Thursday to consider an emergency order requested by the mayor to tackle the opioid epidemic in the city’s troubled Tenderloin neighborhood, with some members clearly dismayed that the declaration could be used to criminalize people who are homeless, addicted to drugs or both.

The public health emergency declaration allows the Department of Emergency Management to re-allocate city staff and bypass contracting and permitting regulations to set up a new temporary center where people can access expanded drug treatment and counseling.

But advocates for the homeless and substance users are urging a no vote because Mayor London Breed has also pledged to flood the district with police officers to halt crime. Public health officials encourage treatment for drug addicts, not punishment, but Breed has said that people consuming drugs in public may wind up in jail unless they accept services.

Supervisors said they welcomed the idea of treating a drug epidemic fueled by cheap synthetic fentanyl as the crisis it is. More people in San Francisco died of overdose last year than of COVID-19.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on December 23, 2021, 10:10:18 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 23, 2021, 09:39:10 PM

I sometimes wonder about culture.

I'm a 43 year old upper middle class white male.

I'm into:

• Wine
• Cigars
• Whiskey/bourbon/scotch
• Steakhouses
• Golf
• Classic rock.

These things all feel completely natural to me... And yet they're all the things that my SES cohort like...

Not much on Cigars- but I check all the other items on your list.  Add performance cars and dogs. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 23, 2021, 10:13:53 PM

I've been meaning to watch Dopesick.  It has ravaged Appalachia.  We foster, and the system is absolutely overwhelmed, both in terms of the number of kids it is putting into the system, and the number of kids in the system who are born with the junk in their system.

Two of the three we've had, had user parents.  Our current foster daughter had four different substances in her 3 lb body at birth.  It's a miracle she's as healthy as she is

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 23, 2021, 10:41:31 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on December 23, 2021, 10:10:18 PM

Not much on Cigars- but I check all the other items on your list.  Add performance cars and dogs. 

yup and yup

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 24, 2021, 01:07:56 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 23, 2021, 09:39:10 PM

I sometimes wonder about culture.

I'm a 43 year old upper middle class white male.

I'm into:

• Wine
• Cigars
• Whiskey/bourbon/scotch
• Steakhouses
• Golf
• Classic rock.

These things all feel completely natural to me... And yet they're all the things that my SES cohort like...

Perhaps free will IS a myth...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on December 24, 2021, 07:10:17 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/BigTenNetwork/status/1474116911973687297?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1474116911973687297%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.elevenwarriors.com%2Fskull-sessions%2F2021%2F12%2F128116%2Fohio-state-football-oklahoma-state-transfer-considers-ohio-state-cincinnati-remembers-42-0-loss-to-ohio-state-and

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 24, 2021, 08:24:30 AM

Wine is an avocation for me obviously, I enjoy it, the history, the chemistry, the taste, and particularly visiting wine regions.  Every avocation is a bit odd I think.  But life would be pretty boring without any.  Some folks only have work.  I've seen a few cases of that, it's pretty depressing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 24, 2021, 08:27:10 AM

"I'll drink any wine before it's time" - Fred Sanford

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 24, 2021, 10:25:44 AM

I usually only drink wine with a meal

I usually eat only one meal a day

so, beer, vodka, gin, blended whiskey, scotch are more likely 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 24, 2021, 11:16:02 AM

I'm doing wine "classes" here once again, really just tastings with a few comments by me.  We have a small group that enjoys it so far.  My group in Ohio grew to be a bit of a pain really.  Drinking is popular apparently.

Champagne and sparkling wines are underappreciated as food pairings.

Champagne is basically crappy wine with bubbles to mask that it's crappy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 24, 2021, 12:19:26 PM

Opinion: The telescope that will replace Hubble will launch on Christmas. Here's why it matters - CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/24/opinions/james-webb-space-telescope-launch-lincoln/index.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 24, 2021, 09:08:12 PM

hope it solves the worlds problems

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 26, 2021, 06:30:04 PM

Well, my son didn't beat me at golf today. But it sure wasn't because I played well lol...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on December 27, 2021, 10:08:37 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 23, 2021, 09:39:10 PM

I'm into:

• Wine
• Cigars
• Whiskey/bourbon/scotch
• Steakhouses
• Golf
• Classic rock.

Collectively this list reads like the conventional interests a sitcom showrunner will write into a Boomer/Gen X side character named Jason (or Chris or Bradly) who serves as a generational foil to the “trendier” millennial characters living down the hall of their shared apartment building.

Our latest episode opens with purple haired Kayla, one of our central millennial characters, fighting against her latest “existential” moments of “feeling vaguely useless” while sharing a vape stick with her roommate near their Keurig Brewer (shameless product placement). Meanwhile, through his front door (graced by a Baywatch poster) Jason can be heard emotionally aggrieved! Kayla, knocking, discovers Jason’s distress is over Motörhead tickets he’s just ordered, which are only available in digital format. Fortunately for Jason, all it takes is Kayla coaching him through how to download a ticket app to his smartphone while the live audience guffaws and farts along to Kayla affirming her restored feelings of usefulness. Jason celebrates with Kayla by ordering a round of Jameson shots at the downstairs bar. (Think Mike & Molly mindlessness.)

Promos for Season 2 hint at Jason (or Chris or Bradly) attempting more unpredictable interests – killer beekeeping, Tottenham FC, birdwatching, bidding at abandoned storage unit auctions, culturally appropriated food trucking, repurposing his undersized bathroom into an infrared spa? Tune in to find out!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on December 27, 2021, 11:40:33 AM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on December 27, 2021, 10:08:37 AM

Collectively this list reads like the conventional interests a sitcom showrunner will write into a Boomer/Gen X side character named Jason (or Chris or Bradly) who serves as a generational foil to the “trendier” millennial characters living down the hall of their shared apartment building.

Our latest episode opens with purple haired Kayla, one of our central millennial characters, fighting against her latest “existential” moments of “feeling vaguely useless” while sharing a vape stick with her roommate near their Keurig Brewer (shameless product placement). Meanwhile, through his front door (graced by a Baywatch poster) Jason can be heard emotionally aggrieved! Kayla, knocking, discovers Jason’s distress is over Motörhead tickets he’s just ordered, which are only available in digital format. Fortunately for Jason, all it takes is Kayla coaching him through how to download a ticket app to his smartphone while the live audience guffaws and farts along to Kayla affirming her restored feelings of usefulness. Jason celebrates with Kayla by ordering a round of Jameson shots at the downstairs bar. (Think Mike & Molly mindlessness.)

Promos for Season 2 hint at Jason (or Chris or Bradly) attempting more unpredictable interests – killer beekeeping, Tottenham FC, birdwatching, bidding at abandoned storage unit auctions, culturally appropriated food trucking, repurposing his undersized bathroom into an infrared spa? Tune in to find out!

In Episode 3 Jason invites the gang to watch Purdue football. They constantly call it "sportsball" and then when Jason goes to the bathroom they turn on their favorite Twitch streamer playing Fortnite. Jason returns and is flummoxed on how anyone could enjoy watching someone play video games and is also flummoxed that he is unable to figure out how to change the channel back to football. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 27, 2021, 11:55:49 AM

I'd watch that show.  Kayla sounds hot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on December 27, 2021, 12:09:58 PM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on December 27, 2021, 10:08:37 AM

Collectively this list reads like the conventional interests a sitcom showrunner will write into a Boomer/Gen X side character named Jason (or Chris or Bradly) who serves as a generational foil to the “trendier” millennial characters living down the hall of their shared apartment building.

Our latest episode opens with purple haired Kayla, one of our central millennial characters, fighting against her latest “existential” moments of “feeling vaguely useless” while sharing a vape stick with her roommate near their Keurig Brewer (shameless product placement). Meanwhile, through his front door (graced by a Baywatch poster) Jason can be heard emotionally aggrieved! Kayla, knocking, discovers Jason’s distress is over Motörhead tickets he’s just ordered, which are only available in digital format. Fortunately for Jason, all it takes is Kayla coaching him through how to download a ticket app to his smartphone while the live audience guffaws and farts along to Kayla affirming her restored feelings of usefulness. Jason celebrates with Kayla by ordering a round of Jameson shots at the downstairs bar. (Think Mike & Molly mindlessness.)

Promos for Season 2 hint at Jason (or Chris or Bradly) attempting more unpredictable interests – killer beekeeping, Tottenham FC, birdwatching, bidding at abandoned storage unit auctions, culturally appropriated food trucking, repurposing his undersized bathroom into an infrared spa? Tune in to find out!

Priceless!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 27, 2021, 12:55:09 PM

Then there'll be the episode where all the millennial characters are going on and on about the metaverse, which Jason says "sounds stupid and pointless, why not just enjoy the real world?" And then he secretly gets addicted to it and hides his usage of the metaverse from them all in shame. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 27, 2021, 01:30:42 PM

My favorite part about a generation making fun of the one that follows it is that it doesn't occur to them that their parenting caused about 85% of what they're making fun of.


*That's mostly NOT what's happening here, as you guys are probably 2 or even 3 generations removed from "millenials."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 27, 2021, 01:39:01 PM

Welp, I broke my fibula on Christmas Day.

Anyone want to take our place in Cabo? Non-refundable. Ten days. $2K + air.

WTF.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 27, 2021, 01:42:26 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 27, 2021, 01:39:01 PM

Welp, I broke my fibula on Christmas Day.

Anyone want to take our place in Cabo? Non-refundable. Ten days. $2K + air.

WTF.

sounds painful 

can I sign your cast

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 27, 2021, 01:43:21 PM

Sure.

I'm in Barrington, IL. 

See you later.


Norco is my friend right now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 27, 2021, 01:50:27 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 27, 2021, 01:30:42 PM

My favorite part about a generation making fun of the one that follows it is that it doesn't occur to them that their parenting caused about 85% of what they're making fun of.


*That's mostly NOT what's happening here, as you guys are probably 2 or even 3 generations removed from "millenials."

I think we've got some Boomers around here, but also a lot of Gen X. 

I'm personally part of that hybrid Xennial generation at the tail end of Gen X. The ones described as "analog childhood and digital adulthood". 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 27, 2021, 02:05:28 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 27, 2021, 01:43:21 PM

Sure.

I'm in Barrington, IL.

See you later.


Norco is my friend right now.

Ive told you over and over only take steps 1 at a time

as my mom used to say if you fall and break your leg dont come running to me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 27, 2021, 02:15:32 PM

Millennials are, for the most part, the kids of baby boomers.

I'm firmly in the midst of GenX, and for the most part, GenZ are our offspring.  

GenX is of course the offspring of the pre-baby-boomers, who don't have a name as far as I know because that was before it became trendy to name and attempt to define masses of people for the purposes of marketing... and snark.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 27, 2021, 02:26:10 PM

My wife is a boomer, and I'm barely not.

But, I am more boomer in my ways than anything, so that's what I am.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 27, 2021, 02:27:59 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 27, 2021, 02:26:10 PM

My wife is a boomer, and I'm barely not.

But, I am more boomer in my ways than anything, so that's what I am.

I remember when the Boomers had a TV show made specifically about them and it was called 30 Something.

Time keeps on slippin' slippin' slippin'...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 27, 2021, 02:32:40 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 27, 2021, 02:26:10 PM

My wife is a boomer, and I'm barely not.

But, I am more boomer in my ways than anything, so that's what I am.

My wife and I are not millennials, but just barely. The millennial generation started in 1981, and I'm '78 and she's '79. 

All of her younger siblings are millennials, and they HATE it when we point that out :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on December 27, 2021, 02:43:30 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 27, 2021, 01:39:01 PM

Welp, I broke my fibula on Christmas Day.

Anyone want to take our place in Cabo? Non-refundable. Ten days. $2K + air.

WTF.

That sucks.  And it hurts. Sorry badge.  
how may I ask?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 27, 2021, 02:47:16 PM

oh yeah, generational talk aside, sorry about your broken leg.  Get well soon!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 27, 2021, 02:51:18 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on December 27, 2021, 02:43:30 PM

That sucks.  And it hurts. Sorry badge. 
how may I ask?

Well, I'm an old boomer. :)


Anyway, ankle gave out, went down the stairs and broke the fibula. I heard it snap.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 27, 2021, 03:10:53 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 27, 2021, 01:39:01 PM

Welp, I broke my fibula on Christmas Day.

Anyone want to take our place in Cabo? Non-refundable. Ten days. $2K + air.

WTF.

doing the "jump around"???
I'd love to go back to Cabo and play golf but, just started the new job and they expect me to work

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 27, 2021, 03:12:42 PM

I'm a Boomer and not ashamed

but, I don't mind if folks walk across my lawn

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on December 27, 2021, 03:25:51 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 27, 2021, 02:51:18 PM

Well, I'm an old boomer. :)


Anyway, ankle gave out, went down the stairs and broke the fibula. I heard it snap.

Get better soon.  Norco will be your friend. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 27, 2021, 04:05:15 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 27, 2021, 01:50:27 PM

I think we've got some Boomers around here, but also a lot of Gen X.

I'm personally part of that hybrid Xennial generation at the tail end of Gen X. The ones described as "analog childhood and digital adulthood".

I guess I am, too.
I thought millennial meant they were born around 2000.  I guess that's GenZ?  

Having specific cutoff years for each of these is a fool's errand.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 27, 2021, 04:08:27 PM

gotta draw the line somewhere if want to stuff folks in a box and apply a label 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 27, 2021, 04:26:44 PM

Barstool Sports president Dave Portnoy is calling on Nebraska to fill a vacancy left by Boise State in the Arizona Bowl. Barstool is the title sponsor of this year’s postseason game.

Due to COVID-19 concerns within the Boise State program, the team has opted out of playing in the Arizona Bowl against Central Michigan. Portnoy tweeted out the Broncos will not be a participant on Monday afternoon.

Shortly after that tweet, Portnoy called on Nebraska to step in and fill the open slot.

“Calling (Nebraska), Let’s go Husker Nation! Scott Frost finally gets Big Red to bowl game!” Portnoy wrote. “Turns program around. We’ll put (Will Compton) on the call!” Michigan would do it if we weren’t in playoff!”


https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1475563688333656069?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1475563688333656069%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsaturdaytradition.com%2Fnebraska-football%2Fpresident-of-barstool-sports-calls-on-nebraska-to-fill-bowl-vacancy-after-boise-state-opts-out%2F

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 27, 2021, 05:33:10 PM

I bought a bunch of Arizona Bowl tickets to flip them for big money.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 27, 2021, 06:05:57 PM

well, you need the Huskers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 27, 2021, 06:30:18 PM

The 10 most-watched college football games of the 2021 regular season

10. PENN STATE AT OHIO STATE

Network: ABC

Audience: 7.1 million

The annual divisional showdown between the Buckeyes and Nittany Lions, at least of late, has routinely checked in as one of the most-watched games of the year given the fanbase sizes and the Big Ten East implications that the game often brings. Ohio State extended its winning streak against Penn State to five straight in this year's game, posting a 33-24 win in a game that saw the Buckeyes record a fourth-quarter shutout. This was one of five games involving a Big Ten team this year to crack the top 10 (more on that to come) in the most-watched games of the regular season.


9. AUBURN AT PENN STATE


Network: ABC

Audience: 7.6 million

This was one of the marquee non-conference games of the 2021 regular season — a Big Ten vs. SEC showdown that was also selected as the whiteout game for the Nittany Lions as it was played under the lights at Beaver Stadium. The game lived up to its billing, too, as Penn State escaped with a 28-20 win in a matchup that was tightly-contested throughout. Auburn, sitting well into Nittany Lion territory, had a chance in the final seconds of the game to potentially tie the game and send it into overtime, but the Penn State defense held the Tigers offense out of the end zone to prevail by a touchdown.


8. OREGON AT OHIO STATE


Audience: 7.7 million

Fans had to wait an extra year to see the Buckeyes and Ducks go at it after the 2020 game that was scheduled between the two in Eugene was unable to be played due to the COVID-19 pandemic. When the teams finally met this September in Week 2, Oregon stunned Ohio State by becoming the first visiting team to win at Ohio Stadium since Oklahoma in 2017. The Ducks, bolstered by a trio of CJ Verdell touchdowns, jumped out to a 21-7 lead early in the second quarter, and Oregon was able to fend off a comeback attempt by the Buckeyes in the fourth quarter to secure the early-season upset.


7. NOTRE DAME AT FLORIDA STATE


Network: ABC

Audience: 7.8 million

With the stage to themselves on Sunday night of Labor Day Weekend, Notre Dame and Florida State opened their seasons with a thriller in Tallahassee, with the Irish ultimately prevailing in overtime by a score of 41-38. It was a rather unexpected thriller at that, too — the Irish entered the season ranked No. 9 in the AP Top 25 poll while the Seminoles were nowhere to be seen, but that did not stop the game from becoming a classic. Notre Dame created some separation in the third quarter after a tightly-contested first half to take 38-20 lead, but Florida State proceeded to outscore the Irish 18-0 in the fourth quarter and force overtime. The Seminoles' comeback bid fell short at that point, but it was an entertaining way to open the fall for both teams.


6. ALABAMA AT FLORIDA


Network: CBS

Audience: 7.9 million

The regular season could not have ended much differently for the Crimson Tide and Gators, but at the time, this was a thrilling rematch of the 2020 SEC Championship Game, and once again, it went down to the wire. It did not look like that was going to be the case when Alabama jumped out to a 21-3 first quarter lead, but Florida worked its way back into the game and the Gators ultimately found themselves within two points of the Tide with just 3:10 to play, 31-29. That would prove to be the final score after Alabama was able to milk down the clock thanks to a pair of third-down conversions on the ensuing drive. Florida did have a chance to a return a punt on the final play of the game, but the Gators were unable to pull off a miracle.


5. ALABAMA AT TEXAS A&M


Network: CBS

Audience: 8.3 million

This was a game that folks had circled on their calendars all offseason, though the primetime matchup between the Crimson Tide and Aggies lost most of its luster when Texas A&M found itself on a two-game skid entering its showdown with No. 1 Alabama. All that did was set the stage for what proved to be an even more improbable upset than anyone could have managed. Fueled by a three-touchdown performance from Zach Calzada, who began the year as A&M's backup and capped off by a clutch game-winning field goal by Seth Small as time expired, the Aggies pulled off the upset to hand Alabama its first loss since 2019 and its first to an unranked opponent since 2007, snapping a streak of 100 wins for Saban and Co. against unranked teams. With Jimbo Fisher at the helm in College Station, it also marked the first time that Nick Saban lost to a former assistant in a head coaching matchup.


4. GEORGIA VS. CLEMSON


Network: ABC

Audience: 8.9 million

Given the teams and the fact that this was a top-5 showdown on the opening week of the season, it should come to nobody's surprise that Georgia and Clemson made for one of the most viewed games of the year. If you like offense, this was not the game for you, as Kirby Smart and the Bulldogs ultimately prevailed over Dabo Swinney and the Tigers by a final score of 10-3. The only touchdown of the game was a defensive score: A D.J. Uiagalelei interception that was returned 74 yards by Christopher Smith for a pick-six. And that trip to the end zone made the difference in the end.


3. MICHIGAN AT MICHIGAN STATE


Network: FOX

Audience: 9.3 million

The stakes were as high as they were in any recent meeting between Michigan and Michigan State when the schools met on Halloween weekend, as both entered undefeated with hopes of a Big Ten title and more on the table. Michigan would ultimately get the last laugh in that department, but Michigan State had its triumph that Saturday as running back Kenneth Walker went off for all five of the Spartans' touchdowns in the 37-33 win. The last of those came with just 5:08 to spare, putting Michigan State up by four in a game where the Spartans once trailed 30-14. Simply put, this was an instant classic in Big Ten Country.


2. ALABAMA AT AUBURN


Audience: 10.4 million

If recent history is any indicator, expect a thriller when the Iron Bowl is played at Jordan-Hare Stadium. That proved to be true once again this Thanksgiving Weekend, though it was Alabama that came on top after previously falling short in three of their past trips to the Plains. Granted, it looked for some time that the Tigers were about to pull off another stunner on a day where the Crimson Tide looked out of sync until it mattered in the end. Bryce Young found Ja'Corey Brooks for the game-tying touchdown with just 24 seconds remaining in regulation, and the Nick Saban and Co. would ultimately pull out a four-overtime victory before upsetting Georgia to win the SEC one week later.


1. OHIO STATE AT MICHIGAN


Network: FOX

Audience: 15.9 million

No other game came close to matching the viewership for this year's iteration of The Game, which saw Jim Harbaugh finally get his long-awaited win against Ohio State as the Wolverines defeated the Buckeyes for the first time since in the rivalry series since 2011.


_________________________________________________ ____________________


1 - independent ND, not on NBC
1 - PAC12 - Oregon
2- ACC
8 - BIG TEN
8 - SEC SEC SEC

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 27, 2021, 06:51:51 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 27, 2021, 03:10:53 PM

doing the "jump around"???
I'd love to go back to Cabo and play golf but, just started the new job and they expect me to work

What type of work you doing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 27, 2021, 06:56:08 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 27, 2021, 01:39:01 PM

Welp, I broke my fibula on Christmas Day.

Anyone want to take our place in Cabo? Non-refundable. Ten days. $2K + air.

WTF.

Sorry to here that,will you be medicating with a single or blended Malt?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 27, 2021, 07:21:07 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 27, 2021, 06:51:51 PM

What type of work you doing

I went to the dark side... I'm in sales

you know, the only way us average intelligence guys that aren't doctors or lawyers or engineers can make real money
going office to office on the road in Iowa/Nebraska/South Dakota to help every home and farmhouse have a fiber optic cable connection
luckily, I  don't peddle electronics

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 27, 2021, 07:31:07 PM

Peddling electronics is good money right now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 27, 2021, 07:33:27 PM

if the supply chain isn't broken

the guys I know get beat up daily 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 27, 2021, 10:23:27 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 27, 2021, 05:33:10 PM

I bought a bunch of Arizona Bowl tickets to flip them for big money.

After Miami withdrew from the Tony the Tiger Sun Bowl on Sunday evening, the scramble was on to find a replacement team for Washington State. A replacement became available Monday when Boise State withdrew from the Arizona Bowl due to COVID issues with the Broncos.

Boise State’s withdrawal from the Arizona Bowl left Central Michigan also searching for an opponent in Bowl Season. After some quick work to iron out the details, Central Michigan is now on its way to the Sun Bowl to face Washington State.

The move was announced Monday night with Friday’s kickoff set for 10 am local time:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 28, 2021, 12:14:59 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 27, 2021, 04:26:44 PM

Barstool Sports president Dave Portnoy is calling on Nebraska to fill a vacancy left by Boise State in the Arizona Bowl. Barstool is the title sponsor of this year’s postseason game.

Due to COVID-19 concerns within the Boise State program, the team has opted out of playing in the Arizona Bowl against Central Michigan. Portnoy tweeted out the Broncos will not be a participant on Monday afternoon.

Shortly after that tweet, Portnoy called on Nebraska to step in and fill the open slot.

“Calling (Nebraska), Let’s go Husker Nation! Scott Frost finally gets Big Red to bowl game!” Portnoy wrote. “Turns program around. We’ll put (Will Compton) on the call!” Michigan would do it if we weren’t in playoff!”


https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1475563688333656069?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1475563688333656069%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsaturdaytradition.com%2Fnebraska-football%2Fpresident-of-barstool-sports-calls-on-nebraska-to-fill-bowl-vacancy-after-boise-state-opts-out%2F

I assumed Portnoy would be calling Georgia State or South Alabama or some other program less than 18 years old

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 28, 2021, 02:07:58 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 27, 2021, 10:23:27 PM

After Miami withdrew from the Tony the Tiger Sun Bowl on Sunday evening, the scramble was on to find a replacement team for Washington State. A replacement became available Monday when Boise State withdrew from the Arizona Bowl due to COVID issues with the Broncos.

Boise State’s withdrawal from the Arizona Bowl left Central Michigan also searching for an opponent in Bowl Season. After some quick work to iron out the details, Central Michigan is now on its way to the Sun Bowl to face Washington State.

The move was announced Monday night with Friday’s kickoff set for 10 am local time:

I was joking....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 28, 2021, 07:34:55 AM

Covid must be solved at the state level, with federal support. Where have I heard this before???


Biden says Covid surge needs to be solved at state level, vows full federal support (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/12/27/biden-says-covid-surge-needs-to-be-solved-at-state-level-vows-full-federal-support.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on December 28, 2021, 08:11:49 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 28, 2021, 07:34:55 AM

Covid must be solved at the state level, with federal support. Where have I heard this before???


Biden says Covid surge needs to be solved at state level, vows full federal support (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/12/27/biden-says-covid-surge-needs-to-be-solved-at-state-level-vows-full-federal-support.html)

180 degrees.   But finally correct. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 28, 2021, 08:28:51 AM

It was the correct approach 18 months ago. 

But now it's "correct" for real.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on December 28, 2021, 08:34:11 AM

It's nice to finally have a policy on COVID this year

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 28, 2021, 09:52:14 AM

He must have been visited by the ghost of virus past

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on December 28, 2021, 10:19:04 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 27, 2021, 01:30:42 PM

My favorite part about a generation making fun of the one that follows it is that it doesn't occur to them that their parenting caused about 85% of what they're making fun of.


*That's mostly NOT what's happening here, as you guys are probably 2 or even 3 generations removed from "millenials."

I am a boomer and I have kids that are Millennials and GenZ.  And I can tell the difference between my Millennials and my GenZs, so while parenting is defintely a major factor, cultural changes are a great influence to that also. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 28, 2021, 11:25:20 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on December 28, 2021, 08:34:11 AM

It's nice to finally have a policy on COVID this year

Yeah, OK. Same policy as April 2020. It's up to the states, with federal support, to manage this virus. The good news is it won't be much of a problem for much longer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on December 28, 2021, 12:04:41 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 28, 2021, 11:25:20 AM

Yeah, OK. Same policy as April 2020. It's up to the states, with federal support, to manage this virus. The good news is it won't be much of a problem for much longer.

I don't agree with that at all. The federal government has been pretty aggressive pushing vaccines and making them widely available. They are apparently doing the same for tests, which I think is overkill. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 28, 2021, 12:15:56 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on December 28, 2021, 12:04:41 PM

I don't agree with that at all. The federal government has been pretty aggressive pushing vaccines and making them widely available. They are apparently doing the same for tests, which I think is overkill.

Helping to make vaccines available to the states isnt the point at all.  The state is the one that sets up distribution points and testing points and mask policy not the Feds

If Biden would please make more home testing kits available that would be appreciated

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 28, 2021, 12:27:37 PM

I think The federal government, state, and local government has been pretty aggressive pushing vaccines and making them widely available since vaccines have been improved.

Which is a no brainer.

unfortunately, education about the vaccines, how it's helpful even if it doesn't prevent infection,  and dispelling myths and other negative thoughts that give some folks reason to not take the jab fall woefully short.

just saying, "get the shot" or "perhaps we will require proof of vax to fly commercial" isn't enough

poor messaging today as it has been

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 28, 2021, 01:27:13 PM

The B1G has announced changes to its forfeiture policy as it relates to COVID-19 postponements and cancellations.

Here is the new policy, per the release from the B1G:

If a team or teams is/are unable to participate in a scheduled Conference competition due to COVID-19, and as a result the competition is unable to occur on the calendar day on which it is scheduled, the competition will not automatically be considered a forfeiture. Upon review and approval by the Conference office, in consultation with the participating institutions and the Big Ten Chief Medical Officer, Dr. James Borchers, the competition may be rescheduled, or declared a no contest or a forfeiture. The Conference office will be responsible for rescheduling any conference competition postponed due to COVID-19.

The number of competitors available – i.e. seven scholarship student-athletes for women’s and men’s basketball – and the availability of at least one countable coach will be factored into the decision-making process. A team that is below the number may still decide to compete if deemed safe by appropriate medical personnel (i.e. the decision to postpone a competition will not be automatic even if a team is below the number).

Conversely, a team that is not below the number of requisite competitors and a coach may still determine that it is unsafe to compete. In such case, forfeiture will not be automatic, but an institution would need to demonstrate to the Conference office, including the Chief Medical Officer, the circumstances that have led to a determination that it would be unsafe to compete. A team that does not compete, and is unable to demonstrate why it is unsafe to compete, will be assessed a forfeiture. Postponed competitions that do not result in forfeiture but are unable to be rescheduled will be declared “no contests.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on December 28, 2021, 08:05:31 PM

Want to mention a movie I watched last night- Netflix.   

Don’t Look Up.    

Star studded. But a great poke fun at our world today.   Worthwhile.  Still laughing today.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 28, 2021, 09:17:08 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on December 28, 2021, 08:05:31 PM

Want to mention a movie I watched last night- Netflix. 

Don’t Look Up.   

Star studded. But a great poke fun at our world today.  Worthwhile.  Still laughing today. 

We just restarted Netflix. That's one I wanted to watch. Thanks for the review!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 29, 2021, 12:00:03 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 28, 2021, 11:25:20 AM

Yeah, OK. Same policy as April 2020. It's up to the states, with federal support, to manage this virus. The good news is it won't be much of a problem for much longer.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/270076744_681235703037085_7371915115159048892_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=l1-27z_iLEUAX9uuXS1&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_zsYySPFmR32nVa49S82TDLuFgPJB2_YEx69gsloRYFQ&oe=61D138DB)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 29, 2021, 03:10:51 AM

Anybody got a '69 Arkansas numerical roster lying around??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 29, 2021, 10:12:22 AM

where's RazorChick when you need her?

might want to bump Jerry Jones or Jimmy Johnson

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BY2I5YWI4MzItYmEzZS00ZDZlLWI4NTktMzZlYTBmMThjYWNlXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMjMyMDc1MTg@._V1_.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 29, 2021, 12:34:18 PM

Got my son an Arduino programming kit for Christmas. 

Instructions said it works on Chromebook. He's got a Chromebook for school work, so I figured that'd be fine. If not, we've got an old laptop with Linux so I figured that'd be a good fallback.

Turns out it doesn't work cleanly on the Chromebook. Could probably figure it out, but all the instructions are for Windows/MacOS/Linux. And I want to get it up and running, not spend all day trying to adapt instructions (that I want him to follow, not do everything for him) to Chromebook.

So, off to the Linux laptop. It was my wife's old Windows laptop that was already old as hell when I met her in 2016 and she barely used for anything not requiring web surfing. So I dropped an SSD into it and loaded a simple Linux on and it revived it for a few years. Then she basically gave up on it in 2020 when I got her an iPad Air, so it's been sitting for a year. Turns out it's on its last legs. Battery has a critical failure, and then it just started locking up during use within the first few minutes of just trying to add a new Linux account for my son and trying to download the Arduino software. 

So... I don't want to buy anything new, and it's time to get creative. 

I broke into Developer Mode on the Chromebook, and installed Ubuntu in a dual-OS config so he can still use it for school while simultaneously having a pure Linux environment for the Arduino. The Ubuntu for Chromebook install isn't perfect, but so far it appears I've made it functional--we just need to find out whether it'll connect to the Arduino board. 

A day and a half, and I've finally gotten beyond step zero in the instructions! But hopefully this will be getting him to a starting point where he can do the rest without me. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 29, 2021, 12:58:24 PM

oh what fun it is to...........

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 29, 2021, 05:04:00 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 29, 2021, 12:34:18 PM

Got my son an Arduino programming kit for Christmas.

Instructions said it works on Chromebook. He's got a Chromebook for school work, so I figured that'd be fine. If not, we've got an old laptop with Linux so I figured that'd be a good fallback.

Turns out it doesn't work cleanly on the Chromebook. Could probably figure it out, but all the instructions are for Windows/MacOS/Linux. And I want to get it up and running, not spend all day trying to adapt instructions (that I want him to follow, not do everything for him) to Chromebook.

So, off to the Linux laptop. It was my wife's old Windows laptop that was already old as hell when I met her in 2016 and she barely used for anything not requiring web surfing. So I dropped an SSD into it and loaded a simple Linux on and it revived it for a few years. Then she basically gave up on it in 2020 when I got her an iPad Air, so it's been sitting for a year. Turns out it's on its last legs. Battery has a critical failure, and then it just started locking up during use within the first few minutes of just trying to add a new Linux account for my son and trying to download the Arduino software.

So... I don't want to buy anything new, and it's time to get creative.

I broke into Developer Mode on the Chromebook, and installed Ubuntu in a dual-OS config so he can still use it for school while simultaneously having a pure Linux environment for the Arduino. The Ubuntu for Chromebook install isn't perfect, but so far it appears I've made it functional--we just need to find out whether it'll connect to the Arduino board.

A day and a half, and I've finally gotten beyond step zero in the instructions! But hopefully this will be getting him to a starting point where he can do the rest without me.

Get a charger for cheap and just keep it plugged in?


Once my laptop starting giving me trouble with the battery, I went online and bought 2 chargers for cheap, plugging them in at the only 2 places I actually used it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 29, 2021, 05:14:24 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 29, 2021, 05:04:00 PM

Get a charger for cheap and just keep it plugged in?


Once my laptop starting giving me trouble with the battery, I went online and bought 2 chargers for cheap, plugging them in at the only 2 places I actually used it. 

I'd be fine with that but the other instability with it constantly crashing was troubling me. That wasn't battery-related. I think I've got a fair number of unused Dell chargers around here anyway. 

Honestly looking online I can see replacement batteries in the ~$24-40 range. If I want to make a project out of trying to figure it out further, I'll just buy one. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 30, 2021, 03:57:08 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/s600x600/270600856_4734464083255838_2201788062116040035_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=xXFXaZdh0-EAX8KoNDD&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT95MQCn7Wc47Crh9OeQDaWwJVgTGA5uSDcyX-WbrRP__A&oe=61D27833)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 31, 2021, 10:49:57 AM

https://www.si.com/college/nebraska/football/dave-humm-john-madden-memory (https://www.si.com/college/nebraska/football/dave-humm-john-madden-memory)

Dave Humm as a rookie on Madden's team

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 31, 2021, 11:06:10 AM

Ever have Bacon/Peanut butter on toasted rye with a dill on the side 😍 ? Cindy does bacon in the oven.Then we're off to volunteer with a bunch of vegans - poor saps

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 31, 2021, 11:23:33 AM

probably, I'm a fan of bacon, peanut butter, rye and dill pickles

not a staple, but I'm sure it's come up more than a few times

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 31, 2021, 12:33:49 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 31, 2021, 11:06:10 AM

Ever have Bacon/Peanut butter on toasted rye with a dill on the side 😍 ? Cindy does bacon in the oven.Then we're off to volunteer with a bunch of vegans - poor saps

Never even considered it... Maybe I'll have to give it a try...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 31, 2021, 01:11:27 PM

From a health conscience POV I'd have to tell you to reconsider,but damn it's good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 01, 2022, 10:00:44 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/O6c8IVe.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 01, 2022, 10:49:04 AM

Headed back from Orlando 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 01, 2022, 10:58:03 AM

It really IS a shithole.

Several California beaches close after sewage spill | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-beaches-close-sewage-spill)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 01, 2022, 09:13:03 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 01, 2022, 10:58:03 AM

It really IS a shithole.

Several California beaches close after sewage spill | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-beaches-close-sewage-spill)

Bwahahaha!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 01, 2022, 09:16:54 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 01, 2022, 10:58:03 AM

It really IS a shithole.

Several California beaches close after sewage spill | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-beaches-close-sewage-spill)

That's frankly hilarious (in our context)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Kris60 on January 01, 2022, 09:42:13 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 31, 2021, 10:49:57 AM

https://www.si.com/college/nebraska/football/dave-humm-john-madden-memory (https://www.si.com/college/nebraska/football/dave-humm-john-madden-memory)

Dave Humm as a rookie on Madden's team

That’s a good story.  Dave Humm had a pretty forgettable NFL career but I’ll always remember him for one game between the Bears and Raiders in the 80s.  The defenses for both teams kept taking out QB’s.  Jim Plunkett was already out and Marc Wilson started in his place.  The Bears knocked out Wilson. Humm came in, they knocked him out.  Wilson came back in, got knocked out again.  The Raiders at some point may have had to put in Ray Guy to take a few snaps.

The Raiders knocked out McMahon and maybe even  Tomczak too.  It was effing wild.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 01, 2022, 10:03:50 PM

Remember watching that game,even Dracula was like make'em stop - a very bloody affair.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 02, 2022, 10:37:49 AM

YUp, that even stirred my weak memory

80s football was glorious

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 04, 2022, 04:58:01 PM

A few days late. But I know Nubbz wants to see it.

It wasn't the most beautiful job of butchery, but it was delicious...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 04, 2022, 05:48:03 PM

nice, I'd eat that right up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 04, 2022, 05:49:02 PM

Leg and ankle surgery tomorrow. Gonna be in the Chicago area for another f'ing week now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 04, 2022, 05:53:24 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 04, 2022, 05:49:02 PM

Leg and ankle surgery tomorrow. Gonna be in the Chicago area for another f'ing week now.

See above. I can do surgery. It won't be good, but it'll be cheap!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 04, 2022, 06:01:17 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 04, 2022, 05:49:02 PM

Leg and ankle surgery tomorrow. Gonna be in the Chicago area for another f'ing week now.

Lovely time of year to be stuck there, right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 04, 2022, 06:16:42 PM

There is no good time of year to be stuck in this shithole.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 04, 2022, 06:38:25 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 04, 2022, 06:16:42 PM

There is no good time of year to be stuck in this shithole.

Best wishes on the surgery.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 04, 2022, 06:45:34 PM

Thanks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 04, 2022, 06:56:32 PM

Try not to get acute lead poisoning, Badge!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 04, 2022, 06:58:00 PM

I'd consider you for my surgery if you were a biomedical engineer. But you're not, so I won't.

;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 04, 2022, 07:30:49 PM

Hope they don't operate on the wrong leg!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 04, 2022, 08:06:01 PM

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-dallas-cowboys-hall-of-fame-qb-troy-aikman-is-taking-on-big-beer-140044732.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 04, 2022, 09:28:43 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 04, 2022, 06:58:00 PM

I'd consider you for my surgery if you were a biomedical engineer. But you're not, so I won't.

;)

The second smartest engineer I went to school with was a Biomedical engineer, who then went on to med school.  Turned out to be a pretty bad doctor though and quit after a decade or so.

Good luck on your surgery!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 04, 2022, 10:11:46 PM

good luck, Badge

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on January 05, 2022, 08:33:08 AM

https://twitter.com/gregwrubell/status/1478501738181058560?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 05, 2022, 01:03:35 PM

Both initial versions of the Silverado EV also will have a full range of more than 400 miles and be able to charge 100 miles in roughly 10 minutes with a DC fast charger, the company said.


GM's EV truck revealed, that's pretty good I think.  The work truck version priced same as the EF-150, $40 K.

Between trucks, vans, and SUVs, there is going to be an all out war shortly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 05, 2022, 01:12:22 PM

2024 Chevrolet Silverado EV: Everything You Need to Know (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a38674839/2024-chevrolet-silverado-ev/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&fbclid=IwAR0Jxm857uSjG-EsWH3J3eLyZml9KEge-rq9hg_D5tEQVg3ZjbsFrz2krTE)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 05, 2022, 01:35:14 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 04, 2022, 05:48:03 PM

nice, I'd eat that right up.

Me too i just don't want him knowing,prolly slurps IPA's

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 05, 2022, 01:40:15 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 04, 2022, 05:49:02 PM

Leg and ankle surgery tomorrow. Gonna be in the Chicago area for another f'ing week now.

So you broke some bones in Chicago,Vinnie and Carmine come collecting some "old debts" did they? J/K careful suposse to be getting into the 20s in these
parts,any luck we'll have an Ice Fishing season 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 05, 2022, 07:20:37 PM

Had to fix the dryer... Again. This time it was the drum belt.

It's a good thing I ordered the full repair kit. Because the belt only snapped because the idler pulley seized and looked like this :a102:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 06, 2022, 08:59:17 AM

I've made that exact same repair before.  

Last month I had to replace the inlet valves on the washer, they were both weeping and filling up the tub even when off.  Then I had to drain the tub manually once per day which finally got it stuck in constant auto-drain mode.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 06, 2022, 10:52:17 AM

Had to pull the drum on my GE washer back in like 13(think it was a clutch repair) .Ended up calling a friend who was a GE Appliance Repairman.He said it was the hardest pull off he ever had ,ended up knotting two leather belts and about a 1/8 of a Liquid Wrench can for us to remove it.Washer lasted 3 weeks short of 21 yrs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 06, 2022, 11:23:48 AM

I went to grill some steelhead trout last night and the grill kept shorting out the GFI, which is a new thing.  I had that outlet replaced as it went dead about a year ago.  I need an EE I guess.  I ended up broiling the trout, the wife said it was quite good.  I overdid it slightly though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 06, 2022, 11:38:47 AM

How many amps is the circuit leading to the GFI outlet?

Typical electric grills are about 1500 watts and 120 Volts. About 13 amps.

Is there anything else on that circuit?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 06, 2022, 12:04:59 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 06, 2022, 11:38:47 AM

How many amps is the circuit leading to the GFI outlet?

Typical electric grills are about 1500 watts and 120 Volts. About 13 amps.

Is there anything else on that circuit?

that seems like a lot of amps

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 06, 2022, 12:06:41 PM

Shouldn't be a problem on a 15 amp circuit, if nothing else is on it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 06, 2022, 12:12:21 PM

Nothing else was on and this
Didn’t happen before 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 06, 2022, 12:20:59 PM

Are you using an extension cord? If so, is it heavy-duty, for appliances?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 06, 2022, 12:22:38 PM

Nope

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 06, 2022, 12:26:02 PM

I read that my age group (I'm 42, almost 43.  I think.  I honestly quit counting at 27 and now I just guess mostly) is the cutoff age for DIYers.  People older than me still often tackle their own projects like y'all are talking about here.  People younger than me didn't learn any carpentry, basic appliance repair, auto-repair, etc.  They almost exclusively hire stuff done.  Somewhere along the line dads quit teaching their kids what they knew about that stuff and kids quit being interested. 

I fit the supposed line of demarcation pretty well.  I wouldn't try half the stuff y'all talk about here and I wound up knowing very little of what my dad is capable of, but I'll take on more stuff I've noticed--particularly with the help of YouTube--than will many people younger than me, I've noticed. 

Vocation and education probably play into it a lot as well.  My stepson is nearing the end of a mechanical engineering degree and has had to do projects that allow him to tackle some neat projects I would be completely lost on.  Even though he's even less of a carpenter or plumber than I am.  My other stepson went to a trade school for electrical work and robot programming, and has a personality that gives zero f*cks about breaking something or failing at a project.  That enables him to tackle a variety of projects--some of which he mastered through trial and error in his younger years--that I wouldn't try.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 06, 2022, 12:43:06 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 06, 2022, 12:26:02 PM

People younger than me didn't learn any carpentry, basic appliance repair, auto-repair, etc.  

Yeah, but they know history of fine arts real good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 06, 2022, 12:46:07 PM

GFCI outlets/breakers fail pretty frequently, especially the ones made in China.  I know you said you replaced it recently, but it might have failed again.  

If you can find one, be sure to replace it with American-made.  They're more expensive but worth it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 06, 2022, 12:48:41 PM

And Youtube makes DIY so much easier now, than it was 20 years ago.  There's pretty much a video out there to repair (or create) almost anything you can imagine.

My millennial nephews (29 and 31) were almost completely helpless, and I used to give them a lot of advice and direct help on house and car stuff.  Then I finally told them, "Go check Youtube" and they've become WAY handier than they were before.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 06, 2022, 12:49:38 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 06, 2022, 12:26:02 PM

I read that my age group (I'm 42, almost 43.  I think.  I honestly quit counting at 27 and now I just guess mostly) is the cutoff age for DIYers.  People older than me still often tackle their own projects like y'all are talking about here.  People younger than me didn't learn any carpentry, basic appliance repair, auto-repair, etc.  They almost exclusively hire stuff done.  Somewhere along the line dads quit teaching their kids what they knew about that stuff and kids quit being interested. 

I fit the supposed line of demarcation pretty well.  I wouldn't try half the stuff y'all talk about here and I wound up knowing very little of what my dad is capable of, but I'll take on more stuff I've noticed--particularly with the help of YouTube--than will many people younger than me, I've noticed. 

Vocation and education probably play into it a lot as well.  My stepson is nearing the end of a mechanical engineering degree and has had to do projects that allow him to tackle some neat projects I would be completely lost on.  Even though he's even less of a carpenter or plumber than I am.  My other stepson went to a trade school for electrical work and robot programming, and has a personality that gives zero f*cks about breaking something or failing at a project.  That enables him to tackle a variety of projects--some of which he mastered through trial and error in his younger years--that I wouldn't try. 

That's interesting, and wonder if that really changes for youngsters, because you can learn just about anything DIY form Youtube, and the youngsters watch Youtube more than anything. My six year old was drawing some really good stuff, and learning how to draw from watching Youtube.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 06, 2022, 12:52:10 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 06, 2022, 12:26:02 PM

I read that my age group (I'm 42, almost 43.  I think.  I honestly quit counting at 27 and now I just guess mostly) is the cutoff age for DIYers.  People older than me still often tackle their own projects like y'all are talking about here.  People younger than me didn't learn any carpentry, basic appliance repair, auto-repair, etc.  They almost exclusively hire stuff done.  Somewhere along the line dads quit teaching their kids what they knew about that stuff and kids quit being interested. 

I fit the supposed line of demarcation pretty well.  I wouldn't try half the stuff y'all talk about here and I wound up knowing very little of what my dad is capable of, but I'll take on more stuff I've noticed--particularly with the help of YouTube--than will many people younger than me, I've noticed. 

Vocation and education probably play into it a lot as well.  My stepson is nearing the end of a mechanical engineering degree and has had to do projects that allow him to tackle some neat projects I would be completely lost on.  Even though he's even less of a carpenter or plumber than I am.  My other stepson went to a trade school for electrical work and robot programming, and has a personality that gives zero f*cks about breaking something or failing at a project.  That enables him to tackle a variety of projects--some of which he mastered through trial and error in his younger years--that I wouldn't try. 

I'm 43. 

I'm the son of an architect, who was the first person in his family to go to college. His dad was a machinist. So he definitely learned at an early age "if you can do it yourself, do that instead of hiring out." I wouldn't say that he taught me a whole lot of things about how to do these things--he wasn't the most patient man--but I think I picked up that mindset by watching him. 

And then of course I became an engineer, so the general mindset of tinkering has always been in me. 

Truth is, I don't know how to do half the stuff I do... But YouTube does. I'm handy enough to understand what the YouTube video is doing and then replicate it, lol...  

The one thing I don't do is plumbing. A lot of people are scared of electrical work because they worry they'll electrocute themselves or start their house on fire, but as an electrical engineer, I trust myself on electrical work. But water damage (and anything related to natural gas) terrifies me, so I won't do anything but the absolute most basic of plumbing work. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 06, 2022, 12:58:06 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 06, 2022, 12:52:10 PM

The one thing I don't do is plumbing. A lot of people are scared of electrical work because they worry they'll electrocute themselves or start their house on fire, but as an electrical engineer, I trust myself on electrical work. But water damage (and anything related to natural gas) terrifies me, so I won't do anything but the absolute most basic of plumbing work.

I was kinda like that, until I replumbed 100% of my vintage Airstream camper during the restoration.  Now, I'll do just about anything plumbing related here at the house.  Same thing with gas lines, I had to replumb 100% of that in the Airstream as well.  It's all pretty simple stuff and, like everything else, tons of Youtube videos for guidance.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on January 06, 2022, 01:02:37 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 06, 2022, 12:26:02 PM

I read that my age group (I'm 42, almost 43.  I think.  I honestly quit counting at 27 and now I just guess mostly) is the cutoff age for DIYers.  People older than me still often tackle their own projects like y'all are talking about here.  People younger than me didn't learn any carpentry, basic appliance repair, auto-repair, etc.  They almost exclusively hire stuff done.  Somewhere along the line dads quit teaching their kids what they knew about that stuff and kids quit being interested. 

My grandpa (on my mothers side) was incredibly handy.  My father's father died young of a heart attack, I never met him.  My dad was taught a lot by my mother's father, and then he just had a DIY book he consulted.  He built two decks, a treehouse, did all of our landscaping, finished our basement, including electrical.  Just with that damn book.  I hung a new light fixture, and felt like I needed to brag on social media about it.

But I do minor home stuff, and my FIL is the exact opposite, asking why I don't just pay someone to do things like stain the deck.  I mentioned once that I was painting the bedrooms, and he asked to come help.  Lasted 5 minutes, and then tapped out when I started taping.  He's about to turn 70, but this was like 7 years ago, and it wasn't due to physical limitations, I think it was exclusively due to not realizing the minimal amount of work that went into painting a room.

I won't do electrical, granted the prior electrical on the light fixture I hung needed some reworking, or plumbing, with a caveat that once I did some plumbing work in our bathtub, because the only leak was going directly into the tub, so I felt confident that (a) it wasn't getting worse while I was figuring it out and (b) if I screwed it up worse, the water bill would just keep going up, it wouldn't cause additional damage

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on January 06, 2022, 01:03:43 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 06, 2022, 12:49:38 PM

That's interesting, and wonder if that really changes for youngsters, because you can learn just about anything DIY form Youtube, and the youngsters watch Youtube more than anything. My six year old was drawing some really good stuff, and learning how to draw from watching Youtube.

I use it for everything.  And yes, our 8 year old makes amazing drawing from Kids Art Hub on YouTube

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 06, 2022, 01:05:32 PM

Quote from: ELA on January 06, 2022, 01:02:37 PM

But I do minor home stuff, and my FIL is the exact opposite, asking why I don't just pay someone to do things like stain the deck.  

Oddly I hire out minor stuff on the cars all the time. I know how to do oil changes and brakes. I've done them a bunch of times. I just pay someone to do it now. 

In those cases, the cost is minor enough that I'd rather just pay it to not have to do it myself, even though I'll save money. Bigger jobs, the difference between doing it myself and paying someone starts to get significant enough that I'll take on the project. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on January 06, 2022, 01:06:59 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 06, 2022, 01:05:32 PM

Oddly I hire out minor stuff on the cars all the time. I know how to do oil changes and brakes. I've done them a bunch of times. I just pay someone to do it now.

In those cases, the cost is minor enough that I'd rather just pay it to not have to do it myself, even though I'll save money. Bigger jobs, the difference between doing it myself and paying someone starts to get significant enough that I'll take on the project.

Car stuff I know nothing about, so yes.  My dad, who did all of the things I mentioned above, never even changed the oil on anything larger than a lawnmower, so that never seemed out of line to me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 06, 2022, 01:14:11 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 06, 2022, 01:05:32 PM

Oddly I hire out minor stuff on the cars all the time. I know how to do oil changes and brakes. I've done them a bunch of times. I just pay someone to do it now.

In those cases, the cost is minor enough that I'd rather just pay it to not have to do it myself, even though I'll save money. Bigger jobs, the difference between doing it myself and paying someone starts to get significant enough that I'll take on the project.

I've done more than my fair share of oil changes but I don't really like to, so I typically hire it out.  New filters are cheap, but collecting and managing the disposal of the oil is a hassle, so it's worth it to me to have someone else do it.

I don't mind doing brakes though, at least not on disc brakes.  For drums I'll typically take it to the shop.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 06, 2022, 01:31:35 PM

I do as much of my own work as my body will allow. I find it fun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on January 06, 2022, 01:36:21 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 06, 2022, 01:31:35 PM

I do as much of my own work as my body will allow. I find it fun.

I did, until we had children.  And probably will again someday.  I coach all of their sports, and drive them to their other activities, so I no longer enjoy spending my 2 hours of free time on a Saturday doing a DIY project while a 6 year old whines at me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 06, 2022, 01:42:18 PM

Quote from: ELA on January 06, 2022, 01:36:21 PM

I did, until we had children.  And probably will again someday.  I coach all of their sports, and drive them to their other activities, so I no longer enjoy spending my 2 hours of free time on a Saturday doing a DIY project while a 6 year old whines at me

Yeah there was a period when the kids were young when that was the same for me.  Now they're in their tweens and teens, their demands on time are diminished.  And next year when both of them leave club sports and go to all in-school sports, it's going to be like I've won the free time lottery.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 06, 2022, 01:49:07 PM

When we get back home and I get healed up, I'm gonna bust two new circuits for my outdoor kitchen. I'm not doing any plumbing out there, or I'd do it myself. The kitchen sink is only steps away, so don't need it.

When I moved into this house, it had 11 circuits, including only ONE for every GFI in the house. The GFI was in the garage, which took me some time to figure out. None of the bathroom or kitchen our outside outlets were working, and then it dawned on my.

The house now has 26 circuits, with two more to come.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 06, 2022, 02:04:15 PM

@utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) How is late June typically for Austin? One of the doctors at my wife's practice may be on vacation at that point so we're talking about places to do a long weekend. Wondering if the inside-out mist is mostly cleared during that time, and the heat not completely oppressive? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 06, 2022, 02:14:40 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 06, 2022, 02:04:15 PM

@utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) How is late June typically for Austin? One of the doctors at my wife's practice may be on vacation at that point so we're talking about places to do a long weekend. Wondering if the inside-out mist is mostly cleared during that time, and the heat not completely oppressive?

You're probably safe from the inside-out mist and the roaming bands of kidney thieves.

As far as temps, it's still going to be pretty warm.  Highs in the mid 90s are average and some days could get to the upper 90s.  Lows down in the 70s so mornings are pleasant.  Personally I find it to be a nice time of year.  Late July to early August are the worst, you're pretty much guaranteed multiple weeks in a row of 100+ temps.

If you do end up coming down and want some recs on food/activities let me know.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on January 06, 2022, 03:08:28 PM

My dad was a maintenance supervisor at a LP gas plant and also a water well driller/repair guy. So I've done more than my fair share of repairs on vehicles and all sorts of other things.  Dad never was a great carpenter, and I'm not either but I've built small sheds and poured concrete and all sorts of other things like hung sheetrock and laid ceramic tile.  

I completely rewired a house, rewired parts of my house during a remodel, changed out the breaker boxes, replumbed entire houses, and lots more that I'd prefer to forget.  

Honestly I've hired out more jobs in the last few years than ever simply because I don't have the time to finish anything within a reasonable amount of time.  Plus it just leaves me exhausted and takes away from my fishing.  Luckily my kids never really played much sports, but we fish.  We have a nice 20' boat that we take to the saltwater about 15 minutes away and catch lots of redfish, trout, flounder, and whatever else is biting.  And the best part is that we do it together.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 06, 2022, 04:17:44 PM

I kind of wind up being in the clear with electrical stuff right now, since one of my stepsons is very good at that, does electrical-adjacent work for a living, carries all the necessary tools at all times, and just loves to show you what he can do.  I don't even have to ask him for something, I just mention that there's something going on I'd like to get done and 5 minutes later he's waist deep in it, like a 5 year old saying "look at what I can do!" 

I can do a little bit of carpentry without youtube, but really I feel like the end of the line for the two sides of my families.  My maternal grandfather was a railroad man by trade, but a jack-of-all trades by hobby and learning.  The man could do literally anything, and built the house my grandmother still lives in back in the 40's all himself.  And all the upkeep and remodeling through the years, of course.  Brilliant woodworker too...he made some really nice chests, bookcases, toys, gift-type items, etc. in his day.  He was a very patient guy and loved to teach me things, but unfortunately he passed at 65 and I didn't get many years with him.  My dad and one of my uncles are both ace carpenters, another uncle is a great mechanic, but all of them will basically get the job done when it comes to something that's not their forte, like plumbing or electrical.  My dad is not a patient man or much of a teacher, and I didn't pick up much of what he knows. 

YouTube is a great resource, and I've used it a ton, but also there are some things that in the real world you have to be careful for at times or you'll cost yourself a ton of time and money, or worse, a safety hazard, and I'd still rather somebody help me who knows what they're doing for some things.  I have a bunch of physical problems that prevent me from doing an awful lot, but what little I can still do, I'm slowly trying to build my tool arsenal up because I live away from my dad now, and I can't raid his workshop just any old time like I used to. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 06, 2022, 04:20:05 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 06, 2022, 04:17:44 PM

I'm slowly trying to build my tool arsenal up because I live away from my dad now, and I can't raid his workshop just any old time like I used to.

My dad's rule was that every new project should require at least one new tool to accomplish it... That way you slowly build up :72:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 06, 2022, 04:35:20 PM

I've mostly got all the handtools I need for routines jobs that come up around the house.  What I really lack is power tools. 

You know how Badger said that people my age and younger have a great education in fine arts....well we also have a killer sense of entitlement too.  As in, my dad is an old fart now, he mostly just works on his saw mill and takes naps, he should just give me his horde of power tools :-D

Back in college I helped a good friend in Baton Rouge do new crown molding in his house.  He had no more budget than I did at the time, and we did it all with a miter box and a handsaw.  When I got home dad asked me how it went and I told him about it, he rolled his eyes and said "Y'all ever heard of a chop saw and a skillsaw?"  He regrets making that point, because from then on, jobs like that meant I raided his saws, nail guns, and air compressor.  He'd catch me pilfering his tools, and I'd just say "Hey, you don't want me doing something the dumb, slow way, right?"  Then he'd walk off grumbling under his breath about needing to get my own stuff.  Despite the fact I still lived at home and had nowhere to put anything, should I have somehow had the money to buy it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 06, 2022, 04:41:01 PM

Restoring the Airstream, I collected a pretty massive set of power and air tools.  I even have an air driven 3x rivet gun, the kind used to assemble commercial aircraft.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 06, 2022, 05:21:44 PM

This conversation reminds me of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cQNkIrg-Tk

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 06, 2022, 05:49:53 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 06, 2022, 05:21:44 PM

This conversation reminds me of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cQNkIrg-Tk

It's why I brew beer.

Because when the excrement hits the air circulation device, and the world devolves into anarchy and cannibalism, I know that I'm, to put it nicely, "well-marbled". But nobody eats the guy who can make the beer. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 06, 2022, 06:43:06 PM

Mmmmm beer.

I'm doing my annual Sober January.  I already miss beer...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 06, 2022, 06:44:46 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 06, 2022, 06:43:06 PM

Mmmmm beer.

I'm doing my annual Sober January.  I already miss beer...

Wife and I are scaling it back for January, in addition to a diet. 

I'm up a pound so far :smiley_confused1:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 06, 2022, 06:53:26 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 06, 2022, 06:44:46 PM

Wife and I are scaling it back for January, in addition to a diet.

I'm up a pound so far :smiley_confused1:

Clearly NOT drinking beer is bad for you.  I suggest you get back to drinking plenty of beer, STAT!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 06, 2022, 07:26:33 PM

What's more fun than hanging sheet rock on the ceiling with nothing but your hands???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 06, 2022, 07:30:52 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 06, 2022, 06:53:26 PM

Clearly NOT drinking beer is bad for you.  I suggest you get back to drinking plenty of beer, STAT!

Ed Zachery,even if it's just an IPA I concur,there are numerous grains,spring water,natural mood enhancers,emancipating probiotics, Mother nature's perfect offering if you will.Honey Lagers for instance - personally I can't stand any of the stuff but the Doc says I gotta do it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 06, 2022, 07:47:51 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 06, 2022, 06:53:26 PM

Clearly NOT drinking beer is bad for you.  I suggest you get back to drinking plenty of beer, STAT!

Dr Tee is correct. I should know, I once worked in a hospital.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 07, 2022, 12:01:15 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 06, 2022, 07:26:33 PM

What's more fun than hanging sheet rock on the ceiling with nothing but your hands???

Riveting aluminum to the ceiling with nothing but your hands?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on January 07, 2022, 08:31:28 AM

Quote from: ELA on January 06, 2022, 01:02:37 PM

My grandpa (on my mothers side) was incredibly handy.  My father's father died young of a heart attack, I never met him.  My dad was taught a lot by my mother's father, and then he just had a DIY book he consulted.  He built two decks, a treehouse, did all of our landscaping, finished our basement, including electrical.  Just with that damn book.  I hung a new light fixture, and felt like I needed to brag on social media about it.

But I do minor home stuff, and my FIL is the exact opposite, asking why I don't just pay someone to do things like stain the deck.  I mentioned once that I was painting the bedrooms, and he asked to come help.  Lasted 5 minutes, and then tapped out when I started taping.  He's about to turn 70, but this was like 7 years ago, and it wasn't due to physical limitations, I think it was exclusively due to not realizing the minimal amount of work that went into painting a room.

I won't do electrical, granted the prior electrical on the light fixture I hung needed some reworking, or plumbing, with a caveat that once I did some plumbing work in our bathtub, because the only leak was going directly into the tub, so I felt confident that (a) it wasn't getting worse while I was figuring it out and (b) if I screwed it up worse, the water bill would just keep going up, it wouldn't cause additional damage

When I was 15, my stepfather was transferred from Columbus to Sandusky Ohio. His dad had a large farm and he bought 30 acres and decided to build a house. 

I spent that summer living in a camper and building the house we would move into that coming winter. Due to my stepdads work schedule, it was basically me doing most of the work. We did hire out the foundation, basement and septic system and drywall finishing, but my stepfather and I did everything else, electrical, plumbing, framing, roof, siding, drywall, you name it. I learned a lot.

After I got married, I bought a house (cape cod) that did not have the 2nd floor finished. I finished the 2nd floor, finished the basement, build a 2 1/2 car garage and remodeled the first floor since then. I have a friend that knew how to finish drywall and he taught me how to do it correctly and quickly, so I ended up doing all of that in my house also. I lay all of my own carpet, hardwood floors, do my own trim work and my other small tasks. However if I can get away with it, I let someone else paint as I absolutely HATE painting. 

My wife has a cousin that was a self employed handyman that would often hire out to do odd jobs. Whenever he got into a larger job, I would take a few weekends and help him. (He wasn't very good and framing roof rafters and would call me to help him with those). But he was a hard worker and I enjoyed framing houses so I didn't mind lending him a hand.

As for vehicle maintenance, when I was 16 I got my my first car. I was an old beater (we could not afford much more). After a year, the engine took a dump and I went to a junkyard, found a replacement and rebuilt that engine and and replaced the bad one with it. I also helped friend work on their cars, and had a neighbor pay me to overhaul an engine on one of his smaller tractors. (I learned a lot doing that one). I replaced another engine in a work truck that we bought and rebuilt another engine for one of my sisters best friends all before I graduated High School. 

A couple of years ago, my youngest daughter was dating a young man that was essentially homeless but living with relatives (came from a poor family and lost both of his parents to health issues). He purchased an older Pontiac Grand Am and ran it out of oil destroying the engine. Again, we (he and I) went to a junkyard, found a replacement engine from a wrecked car and replaced his engine. That one was considerably harder than what I had done years ago as I had to drop the engine/trans from the bottom of the car and put the new one back the same way. Luckily my wife's uncle had a car lift that made it possible. 

Now that I am approaching 60 years old, I am finding that I no longer wish to take on big projects. Last year, I needed to replace part of the roof and decided to hire it out. My roof has a 12/12 pitch and the thought of placing the roof jacks and going up and down ladders did not interest me. In my younger days, I would never have considered not doing it myself. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on January 07, 2022, 08:36:36 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 06, 2022, 04:20:05 PM

My dad's rule was that every new project should require at least one new tool to accomplish it... That way you slowly build up :72:

LOL. That is basically my rule. Now I have all sorts of tools that I hope to never use again. ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on January 07, 2022, 08:39:33 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 06, 2022, 07:26:33 PM

What's more fun than hanging sheet rock on the ceiling with nothing but your hands???

1/2 or 5/8's? 8', 10' or 12'? 

I've done plenty and I know how you feel. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 07, 2022, 11:00:39 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on January 07, 2022, 08:31:28 AM

Now that I am approaching 60 years old, I am finding that I no longer wish to take on big projects. Last year, I needed to replace part of the roof and decided to hire it out. My roof has a 12/12 pitch and the thought of placing the roof jacks and going up and down ladders did not interest me. In my younger days, I would never have considered not doing it myself.

you win

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 07, 2022, 11:33:39 AM

I stopped trying to fix or maintain things long ago beyond changing some filters.

I guess I'll call our electrician about the GFI outlet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 07, 2022, 12:20:02 PM

Thought about putting this in the COVID thread but it's probably more appropriate here:

Quote

Partying passengers stuck in Mexico after airlines decline to fly them home

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/airline-passengers-partying-canada-sunwing/index.html

Just another case of those ugly Americans traveling.  Oh wait, they were CANADIAN...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 07, 2022, 12:57:23 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 07, 2022, 11:33:39 AM

I stopped trying to fix or maintain things long ago beyond changing some filters.

I guess I'll call our electrician about the GFI outlet.

shoot, I an change outlets like that w/o even shutting off the breaker

just gotta be careful with the screwdriver

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 07, 2022, 12:57:56 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 07, 2022, 12:57:23 PM

shoot, I an change outlets like that w/o even shutting off the breaker

just gotta be careful with the screwdriver

I mean, you can, but I'd recommend going ahead and shutting off the breaker...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 07, 2022, 12:58:31 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 07, 2022, 12:20:02 PM

Just another case of those ugly Americans traveling.  Oh wait, they were CANADIAN...

another reason I'm not excited about international travel
Plenty of places to visit in the good Ol US of A

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on January 07, 2022, 01:00:35 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 06, 2022, 04:20:05 PM

My dad's rule was that every new project should require at least one new tool to accomplish it... That way you slowly build up :72:

61 yo here, I had a grandfather who could fix about anything, but specialty was car repair, my dad was an electrician until he went into the ministry both taught me a lot.  I grew up doing all my own repairs, remodels, etc.  I can do car repair (well on older cars which aren't totally computerized), electrical work, plumbing, dry wall, cement work, whatever.  Not much I haven't done, though finish wood work is beyond my patience. However about 10 years ago or so, I realized my time was more valuable than the money "saved" by DIY and I really didn't enjoy it.  I won't work on a car at all and won't do most things around the house, unless I know I can fix it in less than a hour and I have what I need.

I use to have all kinds of tools, I have sold off most of them except for basic socket wrenches, various screwdrivers, couple of hammers, a wrench set, pliers, channel locks, allen wrenches, a circuit tester and an electric hand drill.

I would rather spend my time out on the golf course or out listening to live music and dancing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on January 07, 2022, 01:01:50 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 06, 2022, 07:30:52 PM

Ed Zachery,even if it's just an IPA I concur,there are numerous grains,spring water,natural mood enhancers,emancipating probiotics, Mother nature's perfect offering if you will.Honey Lagers for instance - personally I can't stand any of the stuff but the Doc says I gotta do it

Wasn't it Benjamin Franklin who said that Beer was proof that God loves us. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 07, 2022, 01:02:36 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 07, 2022, 12:58:31 PM

another reason I'm not excited about international travel
Plenty of places to visit in the good Ol US of A

Amen, brutha.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 07, 2022, 01:04:28 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on January 07, 2022, 01:00:35 PM

I would rather spend my time out on the golf course or out listening to live music and dancing.

dancing at 61?
Be careful

;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on January 07, 2022, 01:05:02 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 07, 2022, 12:57:23 PM

shoot, I an change outlets like that w/o even shutting off the breaker

just gotta be careful with the screwdriver

The only way to do it. :93:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 07, 2022, 01:06:38 PM

saves time and causes you to pay attention

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 07, 2022, 01:37:33 PM

My ol' man was a TV repair man, with an awesome set of tools. We could fix it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 07, 2022, 02:29:59 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 07, 2022, 12:58:31 PM

another reason I'm not excited about international travel
Plenty of places to visit in the good Ol US of A

Sheeeeeeiiitt.....plenty of places I ain't going to visit in the good ol USA.  Those jackholes can keep California, for example, they don't need my money until they do something much different with themselves than what they're doing.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 07, 2022, 02:36:17 PM

I just looked up "GFI outlet" because I didn't know what that was and assumed it was well beyond my knowledge. 

It's just a damn outlet.  Fancy initials like GFI confused me. 

I changed out a whole house worth of those in my grandma's house a while back because us grandkids and all the great-grandkids kept not being able to plug up their three pronged power cords for the iPads, iPhones, laptops, etc.  The outlets are not truly grounded because there is no ground-wire in the walls, but the way I did it, my electrician great uncle told me it was not quite un-grounded either.  Whatever weird state could exist between grounded and not-grounded, I don't understand it.  Mainly the modern plugs fit now, but it's also a hair different/better/safer than the old outlets, although not truly grounded.  So he said. 

I, uh...admit to going the sissy route and shutting the breaker off first.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 07, 2022, 02:44:00 PM

I was trying to get a belt pulled off a snow blower a few years back and one step son helped me, to no avail.  We worked on it for half an hour, couldn't get it through a small orifice that afford access.  My other step son stopped by and asked what we were doing in reach in and had the belt out like magic.  He can pretty much fix anything.  He rengined a Lexus going from an in line six to a turbo four, on his own.

My guess is that GFI is simply bad, bummer.  I have a work around, I can plug the grill into an inside outlet and that works if I leave the slider cracked.

This condo has seven sliding glass doors, I've never had so many, and they were all wonky when we moved in, but we had someone repair them for not too much.  Now the handles are failing and it's tough to find a replacement.  I got one that looks nice but you can't lock it, and my wife wants to lock it, on the ninth floor.  I guess someone could rapel down from the roof.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 07, 2022, 02:48:02 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 07, 2022, 02:44:00 PM

I was trying to get a belt pulled off a snow blower a few years back and one step son helped me, to no avail.  We worked on it for half an hour, couldn't get it through a small orifice that afford access.  My other step son stopped by and asked what we were doing in reach in and had the belt out like magic.  He can pretty much fix anything.  He rengined a Lexus going from an in line six to a turbo four, on his own.

My guess is that GFI is simply bad, bummer.  I have a work around, I can plug the grill into an inside outlet and that works if I leave the slider cracked.

This condo has seven sliding glass doors, I've never had so many, and they were all wonky when we moved in, but we had someone repair them for not too much.  Now the handles are failing and it's tough to find a replacement.  I got one that looks nice but you can't lock it, and my wife wants to lock it, on the ninth floor.  I guess someone could rapel down from the roof.

Buy a 1" dowel rod.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 07, 2022, 02:55:55 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 07, 2022, 02:36:17 PM

I just looked up "GFI outlet" because I didn't know what that was and assumed it was well beyond my knowledge. 

It's just a damn outlet.  Fancy initials like GFI confused me. 

I changed out a whole house worth of those in my grandma's house a while back because us grandkids and all the great-grandkids kept not being able to plug up their three pronged power cords for the iPads, iPhones, laptops, etc.  The outlets are not truly grounded because there is no ground-wire in the walls, but the way I did it, my electrician great uncle told me it was not quite un-grounded either.  Whatever weird state could exist between grounded and not-grounded, I don't understand it.  Mainly the modern plugs fit now, but it's also a hair different/better/safer than the old outlets, although not truly grounded.  So he said. 

I, uh...admit to going the sissy route and shutting the breaker off first. 

Well the GFI (or GFCI) is a special outlet, that has a "ground fault circuit interrupt" detection in it.  They're used in areas with moisture like garages, outside outlets, kitchen counters, and bathrooms.  Normal outlets are pretty bullet-proof, to break one would either require user-error during installation, or plugging in something that caused an over-current condition and burned it out (but the breaker at the panel should trip before that).

The GFCI outlet on the other hand, has the detection circuitry inside of it, which goes bad after a long (or short) while.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 07, 2022, 03:03:13 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 07, 2022, 02:48:02 PM

Buy a 1" dowel rod.

I suggested that to her, she doesn't think it's the same as a "real lock".

It would take a gymnast to break into this place anyway, and there isn't much to steal that you could tote away without using the elevator.  But theft/burglary is a serious problem in France.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 07, 2022, 03:10:16 PM

folks have jet packs these daze and then there's spider man outfits that are easily purchased on Amazon

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 07, 2022, 03:11:46 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 07, 2022, 02:55:55 PM

Well the GFI (or GFCI) is a special outlet, that has a "ground fault circuit interrupt" detection in it.  They're used in areas with moisture like garages, outside outlets, kitchen counters, and bathrooms.  Normal outlets are pretty bullet-proof, to break one would either require user-error during installation, or plugging in something that caused an over-current condition and burned it out (but the breaker at the panel should trip before that).

The GFCI outlet on the other hand, has the detection circuitry inside of it, which goes bad after a long (or short) while.

Hmm.  Well then I don't know what I installed.  I just went to Lowe's, bought a bunch of outlets to replace those dinosaurs from the 40's and 50's.  Can't really say I looked at what particular kind they were.  They're working *shrug*

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 07, 2022, 03:22:41 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 07, 2022, 03:11:46 PM

Hmm.  Well then I don't know what I installed.  I just went to Lowe's, bought a bunch of outlets to replace those dinosaurs from the 40's and 50's.  Can't really say I looked at what particular kind they were.  They're working *shrug*

If you didn't purposefully purchase and install GFCI outlets, then you most likely installed standard outlets.  Either will deliver power to the device that is plugged into it.   Only one provides ground fault interrupt protection.

Depending on where you live, those became part of the electrical code sometime in the 70s for outside outlets and bathrooms, and probably more recently for kitchens.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 07, 2022, 03:25:28 PM

GFCIs would obviously cost quite a bit more than regular outlets.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 07, 2022, 03:32:49 PM

Just looking at some pics online, they don't look like they wire up any differently than regular outlets.  Doesn't seem like they'd be any different to replace than the standard ones.  If I can do it, my assumption is anybody else here can do it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 07, 2022, 03:42:11 PM

I see UGA starts with Oregon in MB Stadium next year.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 07, 2022, 04:01:13 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 07, 2022, 03:32:49 PM

Just looking at some pics online, they don't look like they wire up any differently than regular outlets.  Doesn't seem like they'd be any different to replace than the standard ones.  If I can do it, my assumption is anybody else here can do it. 

Yes, they install the same as a standard outlet. 

The idea of GFCI is that if the return current isn't the same as the source current (i.e. it's shorted out and that current is going somewhere else, such as into your body), then it shuts off the outlet power and you have to reset it, hence the reset button. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 07, 2022, 04:22:26 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 07, 2022, 04:01:13 PM

Yes, they install the same as a standard outlet.

The idea of GFCI is that if the return current isn't the same as the source current (i.e. it's shorted out and that current is going somewhere else, such as into your body), then it shuts off the outlet power and you have to reset it, hence the reset button.

Right.

I wasn't trying to say they're more difficult to install or that CD would be incapable of installing, they go in just like a regular outlets.

I was just pointing out that their purpose and operation is different, and that modern electrical building code requires their use in certain areas.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 07, 2022, 05:14:39 PM

Our outlet is both outside on the deck and inside in the dining room, well, it's two outlets back to back, both with a GFCI inside.

I doubt my wife would let me replace it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 07, 2022, 05:28:19 PM

hah, let her help.  She can hold the phone ready to dial 911

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 07, 2022, 05:45:26 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 07, 2022, 03:03:13 PM

I suggested that to her, she doesn't think it's the same as a "real lock".

It would take a gymnast to break into this place anyway, and there isn't much to steal that you could tote away without using the elevator.  But theft/burglary is a serious problem in France Utopia.

Fixed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 07, 2022, 07:44:47 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 07, 2022, 04:22:26 PM

I was just pointing out that their purpose and operation is different, and that modern electrical building code requires their use in certain areas.

The reset button makes it a little more obvious, now that he mentioned it.  My bathrooms are indeed filled with those outlets.  My outside outlets on the front and back porch are not.  This house was built in 2008.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 07, 2022, 07:46:33 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 07, 2022, 07:44:47 PM

The reset button makes it a little more obvious, now that he mentioned it.  My bathrooms are indeed filled with those outlets.  My outside outlets on the front and back porch are not.  This house was built in 2008. 

Check in your garage. The master GFI for the outside may be in there on a wall somewhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 07, 2022, 10:33:10 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 07, 2022, 07:46:33 PM

Check in your garage. The master GFI for the outside may be in there on a wall somewhere.

Yes, one single GFCI outlet can serve the entire circuit as long as it's placed first in-line.  So the outdoor outlets might appear to be normal, but in reality they're protected by another outlet somewhere further upstream-- in the garage, for example, which is exactly where mine is as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 07, 2022, 11:43:34 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 07, 2022, 01:04:28 PM

dancing at 61?
Be careful

;)

He learned by wiring his own GFCIs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 07, 2022, 11:47:16 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 07, 2022, 02:48:02 PM

Buy a 1" dowel rod.

or a 6" barrel

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 08, 2022, 12:51:19 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 07, 2022, 10:33:10 PM

Yes, one single GFCI outlet can serve the entire circuit as long as it's placed first in-line.  So the outdoor outlets might appear to be normal, but in reality they're protected by another outlet somewhere further upstream-- in the garage, for example, which is exactly where mine is as well.

I had one in my previous house where the GFCI ran a long run to the back exterior outlet of the house, and if I needed a long extension cord from there, it would always trip. Annoying...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 08, 2022, 12:52:59 AM

Did anyone actually watch that movie I mentioned on Netflix, Love Hard? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 08, 2022, 09:02:48 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 08, 2022, 12:52:59 AM

Did anyone actually watch that movie I mentioned on Netflix, Love Hard?

No. Should I? I have watched work hard, which I suggest.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 08, 2022, 09:41:51 AM

I watched Die Hard last month.  Great Christmas movie.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 08, 2022, 10:04:32 AM

ok whos seen Get Hard

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 08, 2022, 10:11:00 AM

I saw Walk Hard

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 08, 2022, 10:41:53 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 07, 2022, 10:33:10 PM

Yes, one single GFCI outlet can serve the entire circuit as long as it's placed first in-line.  So the outdoor outlets might appear to be normal, but in reality they're protected by another outlet somewhere further upstream-- in the garage, for example, which is exactly where mine is as well.

Code in Illinois is 1 outlet downstream from the GFI. Contractors now are just putting in all GFI outlets up here.

In Florida it's now 2 downstream. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 08, 2022, 10:42:25 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 08, 2022, 10:04:32 AM

ok whos seen Get Hard

Been a while.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on January 08, 2022, 10:56:05 AM

The only trick to GFCI breakers is that when wired in series the next in the daisy chain has to go in a certain terminal. Not hard really. The other challenge is that it’s physically bigger than the old one and tighter in the box. 

Now in places it’s required to use arc fault breakers. I think there is a breaker you can use that is gfci and arc fault in one. It goes in the breaker panel, and you leave your old plugs as is. 

I hear they trip a lot on refrigerators and freezers a lot. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 08, 2022, 11:02:04 AM

I've heard the same. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 08, 2022, 11:12:17 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 08, 2022, 09:02:48 AM

No. Should I? I have watched work hard, which I suggest.

It's a decent Christmas themed romcom. Not exactly the genre typical here, but well written, well acted, and funny.

As I mentioned previously, my wife's friend wrote the screenplay. I thought it was interesting when one of the characters was talking about his golden retriever, Chewy, who had passed away the previous year. That was a personal addition because she (the screenwriter) had a golden retriever named Chewy, and that dog was her life, and it passed away a year or so before the movie came out. 

Quote from: utee94 on January 08, 2022, 09:41:51 AM

I watched Die Hard last month.  Great Christmas movie.

Whether or not Die Hard is a Christmas movie is a dialogue point in this one...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 08, 2022, 11:47:55 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 08, 2022, 11:12:17 AM

Whether or not Die Hard is a Christmas movie is a dialogue point in this one...

It's oft-discussed around here.  I say discussed and not debated, because everyone know it's a Christmas movie.

In fact, it's the Greatest Christmas Movie Of All Time.

Fight Me! :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 08, 2022, 11:48:47 AM

I watched Don't Look Up, it's pretty depressingly funny, not a great movie, but OK.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 08, 2022, 11:55:38 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 08, 2022, 11:48:47 AM

I watched Don't Look Up, it's pretty depressingly funny, not a great movie, but OK.

I thought it was pretty good.  Comedy Noir is difficult to do well.  This one was a bit of a cross between Idiocracy and Dr. Strangelove, and I felt it worked.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 08, 2022, 11:57:39 AM

Yeah, pretty good, I later read it was a commentary on climate change, which I thought it did very poorly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 08, 2022, 12:04:44 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 08, 2022, 11:57:39 AM

Yeah, pretty good, I later read it was a commentary on climate change, which I thought it did very poorly.

They were definitely attempting to draw analogues to climate change.  It was pretty clunky and heavy-handed from that perspective, no subtlety or nuance.  Exactly what you'd expect from Hollywood, to be honest.

Although it was written pre-COVID, I actually find the analogues to the pandemic to be a lot more interesting.  All of the social media distractions and deliberate obfuscation, the general confusion and lack of care from large segments of the population-- those elements rang pretty true as a commentary on some of the global and domestic responses to the pandemic.

All in all, I think they made a movie that was much better now, than it would have been 3 years ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 08, 2022, 12:12:54 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 08, 2022, 09:41:51 AM

I watched Die Hard last month.  Great Christmas movie.  :violent-smiley-007:

FIFY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 08, 2022, 12:16:10 PM

A COVID parallel would have made more sense, to me, a comet striking the planet at a known time is very very different from climate change.

We're not doing anything but shuffling deck chairs on climate change because there is not practicable solution, just as we'd have no solution to a comet 9 lm across about to impact the planet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 08, 2022, 12:17:04 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 08, 2022, 12:16:10 PM

A COVID parallel would have made more sense, to me, a comet striking the planet at a known time is very very different from climate change.

We're not doing anything but shuffling deck chairs on climate change because there is not practicable solution, just as we'd have no solution to a comet 9 lm across about to impact the planet.

Existential risks | Climate Etc. (judithcurry.com) (https://judithcurry.com/2022/01/04/existential-risks/#more-28209)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 08, 2022, 12:22:01 PM

I was an invited speaker at a wine conference near Paris a few years back, the first speaker talked about the impact of CC on theh wine industry.  It was in French, but the upshot was "dire and soon".  Wine grapes require specific terroir to make very good wine, and you can't move most wine regions a bit north to get a cooler climate because the soil changes, or it's a river or mountain or whatever.  (Napa is cooler in the south anyway).  So, CC SHOULD harm the wine industry "soon", but hasn't.  Yet.

It's a canary in the mine of coal in effect.  Part of this is the changes in T reported to date are actually pretty modest, well within normal variation year over year, and growers can manage, but IF we double that, I think many would be in trouble.  But I also think they would be 50 years from now, not 2030.

The T change is so slow we wouldn't notice it vicariously without instrumentation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 08, 2022, 12:40:39 PM

Yeah I'll be pissed if/when climate change damages the French wine industry. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on January 08, 2022, 12:55:58 PM

Yes, it would be horrible if our 100x great grandchildren can't drink wine from some region once known as France. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 08, 2022, 01:01:51 PM

I'd venture that the effect on the French wine industry is going to be so gradual that we may not even notice. If the wine changes slowly over 20-30 years, in 30 years we might just believe that that's what Bordeaux or Cotes du Rhone are just "supposed" to taste like, even though it has changed. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 08, 2022, 02:00:05 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 08, 2022, 01:01:51 PM

I'd venture that the effect on the French wine industry is going to be so gradual that we may not even notice. If the wine changes slowly over 20-30 years, in 30 years we might just believe that that's what Bordeaux or Cotes du Rhone are just "supposed" to taste like, even though it has changed.

Could be.  Or it could be one of those "tippy" situations, hysterisis of the soil, so to speak.

Either way, I was of course kidding, there are far larger concerns with climate change.  But it would be a shame if the most delicious wines on the planet were ever made less so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 08, 2022, 02:11:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 08, 2022, 11:48:47 AM

I watched Don't Look Up, it's pretty depressingly funny, not a great movie, but OK.

Haven't seen it, but I did read a number of reviews on IMDB.  I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.  Not at the attempts to review a movie.  At the people fellating the movie and screaming about the real-life idiots it portrays....and their very bad grammar whilst doing so.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 08, 2022, 02:13:33 PM

My comment really is related to the "canary in the coal mine" aspect.  This is one area where we should see changes quickly.  I think Burgundy would be most impacted earliest, and they routinely produce 7-8 of the ten priciest wines on the planet.  They can't move and their varietals are very temperature sensitive.

The only American wine to make the priciest list is a sauvignon blanc oddly enough.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on January 08, 2022, 02:14:54 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 08, 2022, 01:01:51 PM

I'd venture that the effect on the French wine industry is going to be so gradual that we may not even notice. If the wine changes slowly over 20-30 years, in 30 years we might just believe that that's what Bordeaux or Cotes du Rhone are just "supposed" to taste like, even though it has changed.

Yes, gradual change is nearly impossible for people to notice. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB1yhpYMHDA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 08, 2022, 02:20:10 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 08, 2022, 12:16:10 PM

We're not doing anything but shuffling deck chairs on climate change because there is not practicable solution, just as we'd have no solution to a comet 9 lm across about to impact the planet.

I think the looks into the problem and potential solutions done by Bjorn Lomborg and his associates are pretty well reasoned, an actionable.  As much as can be, I mean, for something that's still not fully understood as far as human impact and viable solutions.  I think he and the economists that work with him have done as good a job as I'm aware of as far as sussing out what's actually going on and seeking to mitigate unintended (or maybe intended?) consequences of the pop-level "fixes."  He has a book called False Alarm I have on my list, but haven't read yet.  Also read a helpful book called Weathering Climate Change that summarized where we are and some potential moves going forward nicely, I thought.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 08, 2022, 02:22:44 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 08, 2022, 02:11:24 PM

Haven't seen it, but I did read a number of reviews on IMDB.  I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.  Not at the attempts to review a movie.  At the people fellating the movie and screaming about the real-life idiots it portrays....and their very bad grammar whilst doing so. 

Yup, the shrill response from the usual suspects is completely predictable.  The movie is basically custom-crafted specifically to feed their biases and self-sustaining echo chamber.  That's what I meant when I said it was clunky and heavy-handed.  It's rare to find anything resembling subtlety or nuance coming from the Hollywood set.  You could think of it as an extended SNL sketch from the Alec Baldwin-as-Trump era.

Even so, there were a lot of funny bits.  And I found it worked much better as an analogue for the pandemic response, than it ever could have as a commentary on climate change.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 08, 2022, 03:03:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 08, 2022, 12:22:01 PM

I was an invited speaker at a wine conference near Paris a few years back, the first speaker talked about the impact of CC on theh wine industry.  It was in French, but the upshot was "dire and soon".  Wine grapes require specific terroir to make very good wine, and you can't move most wine regions a bit north to get a cooler climate because the soil changes, or it's a river or mountain or whatever.  (Napa is cooler in the south anyway).  So, CC SHOULD harm the wine industry "soon", but hasn't.  Yet.

It's a canary in the mine of coal in effect.  Part of this is the changes in T reported to date are actually pretty modest, well within normal variation year over year, and growers can manage, but IF we double that, I think many would be in trouble.  But I also think they would be 50 years from now, not 2030.

The T change is so slow we wouldn't notice it vicariously without instrumentation.

according to 60 minutes this is a HUGE problem for France today


12/26/2021: Weather & Wine, Drawing Truth to Power

Europe's wine industry being altered by climate change; Badiucao: The 60 Minutes Interview Air Date: Dec 26, 2021


https://www.cbs.com/shows/60_minutes/video/WvvGeqR7GsGkykCsR78T1WINDn_M9QVW/12-26-2021-weather-wine-drawing-truth-to-power/ (https://www.cbs.com/shows/60_minutes/video/WvvGeqR7GsGkykCsR78T1WINDn_M9QVW/12-26-2021-weather-wine-drawing-truth-to-power/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 08, 2022, 03:03:43 PM

It'd probably make me roll my eyes either way.  

The pandemic response has also never been as simple as The Two Main Sides have made it out to be.  Like most things in life, it's a bit more nuanced and complex than anybody would like to give it credit for.  I'd surely be more guilty of this than I probably already am were I not working for the county health authority and my wife being a medical provider.  They frequently have to remind me that actually bio-chemistry, population health, and individual health and well-being are pretty complicated subjects.  I'm inclined to remind them public policy is also not as clear cut as people would like it to be.

My stepson watched it and said he thought it was pretty funny.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 08, 2022, 03:05:59 PM

Amazingly, they don't respect my Google degree at all. 

It's like they think year's worth of medical school and practice and coordinating carefully with the CDC means they know more than I, an internet master with the world at my fingertips and hot takes ready to regurgitate.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 08, 2022, 03:20:24 PM

1st saturday since when,with no CFB? This just bites,I'll never make September by then the men with the nets will have caught up to me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 08, 2022, 03:27:52 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 08, 2022, 03:03:29 PM

according to 60 minutes this is a HUGE problem for France today


12/26/2021: Weather & Wine, Drawing Truth to Power

Europe's wine industry being altered by climate change; Badiucao: The 60 Minutes Interview Air Date: Dec 26, 2021


https://www.cbs.com/shows/60_minutes/video/WvvGeqR7GsGkykCsR78T1WINDn_M9QVW/12-26-2021-weather-wine-drawing-truth-to-power/ (https://www.cbs.com/shows/60_minutes/video/WvvGeqR7GsGkykCsR78T1WINDn_M9QVW/12-26-2021-weather-wine-drawing-truth-to-power/)

"Being altered" is not the same as "has been altered" to any significant degree.  It's a danger for the future, not today, that I've seen.

Wine making is always impacted by weather, which is one reason California is so predictable with relatively few bad years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 08, 2022, 03:28:43 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 08, 2022, 02:20:10 PM

I think the looks into the problem and potential solutions done by Bjorn Lomborg and his associates are pretty well reasoned, an actionable.  

I have not seen his plan, and suspect it isn't practicable, particularly if it contains "nuclear" anywhere in it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 08, 2022, 03:54:29 PM

According to a U-Haul study, South Dakota is No. 11 "Growth State" in 2021, moving up 14 spots from its 2020 report. One-way U-Haul trucks to South Dakota increased by nearly 28% from last year.

Growth states are calculated by the net gain of one-way U-Haul trucks entering a state verses leaving that state in a calendar year.

Top 10 states people moved to, according to United Van Lines:

Vermont
South Dakota
South Carolina
West Virginia
Florida
Alabama
Tennessee
Oregon
Idaho
Rhode Island


Top 10 metro areas people moved to, according to United Van Lines:

Medford-Ashland, Oregon
Punta Gorda, Florida
Wilmington, North Carolina
Eugene-Springfield, Oregon
Sarasota-Bradenton, Florida
Sioux Falls, South Dakota
For Myers-Cape Coral, Florida
Myrtle Beach, South Carolina
Santa Fe, New Mexico
Bellingham, Washington


______________________________________

Texas not mentioned, Utee

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 08, 2022, 04:01:03 PM

Why not just measure actual population growth by standard metrics instead of using a "commercial ploy"?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 08, 2022, 04:08:43 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 08, 2022, 03:54:29 PM

According to a U-Haul study, South Dakota is No. 11 "Growth State" in 2021, moving up 14 spots from its 2020 report. One-way U-Haul trucks to South Dakota increased by nearly 28% from last year.

Growth states are calculated by the net gain of one-way U-Haul trucks entering a state verses leaving that state in a calendar year.

Top 10 states people moved to, according to United Van Lines:

Vermont
South Dakota
South Carolina
West Virginia
Florida
Alabama
Tennessee
Oregon
Idaho
Rhode Island


Top 10 metro areas people moved to, according to United Van Lines:

Medford-Ashland, Oregon
Punta Gorda, Florida
Wilmington, North Carolina
Eugene-Springfield, Oregon
Sarasota-Bradenton, Florida
Sioux Falls, South Dakota
For Myers-Cape Coral, Florida
Myrtle Beach, South Carolina
Santa Fe, New Mexico
Bellingham, Washington


______________________________________

Texas not mentioned, Utee

No WAY.


On a serious note, another friend just moved down. He wanted to do a one-way U-Haul from the Chicago area.

$2400.00 one-way. For the round trip, it was $750. So, he did the round trip and picked us his car while up there.

Sounds like U-Haul will pay people to move trucks from Florida to Illinois. Certainly nobody is moving to Illinois from Florida, so that makes sense.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 08, 2022, 04:47:44 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/kHw0E6B.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 08, 2022, 04:55:06 PM

Greater Atlanta Metropolitan.

[th][/th] [th]Atlanta City(2021)[/th] [th]Greater Atlanta(2019)[/th]
Population	519,481	6.8 million
Area	136.76 sq mi (354.22 sq km)	10,494.03 sq mi (27,179.4 sq km)

1 more row (https://www.populationu.com/cities/atlanta-ga-population)
They are coming in from the expected places apparently.  Mass. has a land area of 10,565 sqmiles and a population of about 6.9 million folks, so this place is comparable.


Population growth has slowed since 2008, but the city is growing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 08, 2022, 05:50:26 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 08, 2022, 03:28:43 PM

I have not seen his plan, and suspect it isn't practicable, particularly if it contains "nuclear" anywhere in it.

The bolded part negates any weight of the non-bolded part. 

But what I've seen of him is maybe less an actionable plan, and more a sensible approach to getting an actionable plan.  He advocates for honest assessments of all data and for serious cost-benefit analyses to be done for suggested courses of action.  And to not ignore the cost-benefit analyses that have already been done.  The data, by the way, which as far as I can, nobody disputes.  There seems to be massive disagreements on how much to tank the economy and other sectors for minimal impacts on a problem that isn't nearly as bad as the alarm-peddlers yell.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 08, 2022, 08:12:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 08, 2022, 04:01:03 PM

Why not just measure actual population growth by standard metrics instead of using a "commercial ploy"?

Census data is slow. This is faster. 

It's probably worse data, but whether it's worse enough to matter is the key.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 08, 2022, 10:42:44 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 08, 2022, 12:16:10 PM

We're not doing anything but shuffling deck chairs on climate change because there is not practicable solution, just as we'd have no solution to a comet 9 lm across about to impact the planet.

Bruce Willis disagrees.
(https://i.imgur.com/Q9gkqcu.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 08, 2022, 10:49:44 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 08, 2022, 03:03:29 PM

according to 60 minutes this is a HUGE problem for France today


12/26/2021: Weather & Wine, Drawing Truth to Power

Europe's wine industry being altered by climate change; Badiucao: The 60 Minutes Interview Air Date: Dec 26, 2021


https://www.cbs.com/shows/60_minutes/video/WvvGeqR7GsGkykCsR78T1WINDn_M9QVW/12-26-2021-weather-wine-drawing-truth-to-power/ (https://www.cbs.com/shows/60_minutes/video/WvvGeqR7GsGkykCsR78T1WINDn_M9QVW/12-26-2021-weather-wine-drawing-truth-to-power/)

Climate change is only a problem for the species that expects nature to remain static.  What is now the Sahara Desert was once a lush jungle.  The Appalachians are shorter than the Rockies only because they're older and more worn down.  The Himalayas didn't exist when India was an island.

France loses its wine weather.  A different location on the earth begins its wine weather.  Shrug.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 09, 2022, 10:13:25 AM

Greta Thunberg says you can all go **** yourselves.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 09, 2022, 10:14:09 AM

If climate were the sole factor in terroir that might all be true.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 09, 2022, 10:16:52 AM

it's wine, it's important

they will find terroir

did you see the 60 minutes bit?  growing better wine in the UK than in France

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 09, 2022, 10:18:39 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 09, 2022, 10:16:52 AM

it's wine, it's important

they will find terroir

did you see the 60 minutes bit?  growing better wine in the UK than in France

LOLno

You don't "find" terroir.  Terroir simply is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 09, 2022, 10:20:32 AM

it simply is, just gotta find it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 09, 2022, 10:22:15 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 09, 2022, 10:20:32 AM

it simply is, just gotta find it

It's unique.  You're not going to reproduce a Bordeaux in the UK or the USA or Argentina or Australia.  

You can still make good wines in many places, but not the same wines.  Terroir is unique and it matters significantly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 09, 2022, 10:37:22 AM

well then, according to 60 minutes, some of those wines are going away or at least quantities are going down greatly

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 09, 2022, 10:46:02 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 09, 2022, 10:37:22 AM

well then, according to 60 minutes, some of those wines are going away or at least quantities are going down greatly

(https://i.imgur.com/8ComCbc.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 09, 2022, 10:53:29 AM

60 minutes sucks.

That is all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 09, 2022, 10:54:54 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 09, 2022, 10:53:29 AM

60 minutes sucks.

That is all.

Specifically, the 60 minutes we play Alabama every year.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 09, 2022, 11:12:41 AM

Straight Cash, Homie!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 09, 2022, 01:03:26 PM

was struggling to get enough heat in my bloody mary with Frank's and Tabasco

solved it!

Cayenne!

pretty tasty mix, sriracha, Frank's, Smokey Tabasco, and horseradish  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 09, 2022, 01:18:56 PM

I could go for that right now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 09, 2022, 01:42:16 PM

it didn't suck

might have another

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 09, 2022, 02:03:03 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 09, 2022, 01:03:26 PM

was struggling to get enough heat in my bloody mary with Frank's and Tabasco

solved it!

Cayenne!

pretty tasty mix, sriracha, Frank's, Smokey Tabasco, and horseradish 

Your taste buds are dead, bruh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 09, 2022, 02:16:52 PM

disagree

had another

tasty!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 09, 2022, 05:48:30 PM

Man, I should have ordered a bloody mary from the cart girl this morning. Decided to start with a Modelo instead of IPA because it was still the front nine and barely past 10 AM.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 09, 2022, 06:36:58 PM

Welp, class starts tomorrow and that means I'm out for a while. 

I'll leave you all to change your own outlets, figure out the transfer portal and covid 19 in my absence.  Reports due on my return.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 09, 2022, 07:11:05 PM

 take the ordaments/lites off and tree down much more like holiday weather dusting of snow and 27 deg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 09, 2022, 08:45:13 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 09, 2022, 05:48:30 PM

Man, I should have ordered a bloody mary from the cart girl this morning. Decided to start with a Modelo instead of IPA because it was still the front nine and barely past 10 AM.

negra?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 10, 2022, 12:33:53 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 09, 2022, 08:45:13 PM

negra?

Especial. I did the negra modelo last week.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 10, 2022, 06:46:42 AM

Difference?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 10, 2022, 08:27:17 AM

Modelo Especial is a standard Mexican golden lager.

(https://i.imgur.com/kn7M3YY.png)



Negra Modelo is Munich-style dunkel, a darker beer.

(https://i.imgur.com/8hP3C1f.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on January 10, 2022, 11:10:51 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on December 27, 2021, 11:40:33 AM

In Episode 3 Jason invites the gang to watch Purdue football. They constantly call it "sportsball" and then when Jason goes to the bathroom they turn on their favorite Twitch streamer playing Fortnite. Jason returns and is flummoxed on how anyone could enjoy watching someone play video games and is also flummoxed that he is unable to figure out how to change the channel back to football.

As showrunner, I’m going to force a few key creative changes starting with renaming Jason to Ray. That way we can title our show Gen X Ray…get it? The premise being a Gen Xer socially navigating his apartment tower full of constantly online and vaping Millennials and Zoomers.

Episode 4 - Birdwatching:

When their apartment tower’s Central AC goes down during the dog days of summer the gang ventures outside their apartments to cool off. Unshaven Ray, wearing a Grateful Dead shirt, passes the time on the roof viewing through binoculars a few sunbathers lazing in the grass of the park overlooked by their apartment tower. When purple-haired, nose-ringed Kayla runs into Ray on the roof he eases her suspicions by declaring himself a “fair-trade birdwatching hobbyist.” Kayla, impressed and motivated to “unify with nature” after recently “following” the National Audubon Society’s social media accounts, eagerly wants to learn birding from Ray once she can return with her own binoculars.

Faced with having to properly identify a few birds [insert Hooters joke here, live audience predictably laughs] so Kayla doesn’t out him as a creeper, Ray enlists the help of another millennial down the hall named Nikoliss (as alternatively spelled by his “New Age” parents). In laboring to relate to Nikoliss, an avowed e-boy, Ray must relearn with each episode sensitivity toward the latest condition ailing poor Nikoliss – peanut allergy, vaping induced popcorn lung, self-diagnosed ADHD, “gifted child” relapsed of his gifts?

Bribing Nikoliss to the roof with a case of Monster Energy drinks [shameless product placement], Ray hands Nikoliss his extra pair of binoculars and tasks him with assigning “sciency” sounding names to different birds he locates. This way Ray can relay the info when later teaching Kayla. But as Nikoliss is using Ray’s binoculars a false lens pops open and spills old liquor over his face.
“Those are what I used to smuggle Dewars into Purdue football student section!” Ray exclaims.
“O-M-G! W-T-F! F-M-L! A-S-S!” Nikoliss reacts.

Nikoliss, E-boy, Apartment #907:


(https://i.imgur.com/L4VDRuT.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 10, 2022, 01:31:16 PM

Yeah, when I scroll down the facebook "news" feed on my phone, about halfway down, I don't even know what any of the words in the headline mean.

Part of that is I'm over 40 and lost touch with what's 'now' and the other part is that it's vapid irrelevance.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 10, 2022, 01:43:44 PM

Photos: Wandering reborn Colony Square, a Midtown landmark | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/colony-square-midtown-photos-landmark-development)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 10, 2022, 02:46:04 PM

U.S. greenhouse gas emissions rose by 6.2% in 2021 : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2022/01/10/1071835575/u-s-greenhouse-gas-emissions-2021-climate)

We're going to continue to see such reports coupled with hand wringing and pleas to do better, but we won't.  The math is pretty clear for anyone wanting to be realistic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 10, 2022, 02:49:54 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 10, 2022, 02:46:04 PM

U.S. greenhouse gas emissions rose by 6.2% in 2021 : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2022/01/10/1071835575/u-s-greenhouse-gas-emissions-2021-climate)

We're going to continue to see such reports coupled with hand wringing and pleas to do better, but we won't.  The math is pretty clear for anyone wanting to be realistic.

I don't want to hear about annual numbers, after the complete train wreck that was 2020. I want to hear about how the number relates to 2019. 

But it's a lot easier to talk about how big of an increase something is when you're referring to an absolute outlier of a year where people basically shut down most travel and commuting. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 10, 2022, 03:02:02 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/ncevzgr.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on January 10, 2022, 03:12:07 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 07, 2022, 10:33:10 PM

Yes, one single GFCI outlet can serve the entire circuit as long as it's placed first in-line.  So the outdoor outlets might appear to be normal, but in reality they're protected by another outlet somewhere further upstream-- in the garage, for example, which is exactly where mine is as well.

always fun when you first go into a house and a circuit doesn't work.  Figure out which breaker controls the circuit if not labeled.  Then seeing it isn't tripped and wonder what is wrong.  Ultimately it turns out to be a GFI in the garage behind the refrigerator which you spent a ridiculous amount of time trying to find. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on January 10, 2022, 03:28:51 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 09, 2022, 05:48:30 PM

Man, I should have ordered a bloody mary from the cart girl this morning. Decided to start with a Modelo instead of IPA because it was still the front nine and barely past 10 AM.

Golf, the one place where you can drink beer at 8am and not be judged for it.  Which could be why I golf.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 10, 2022, 03:53:15 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on January 10, 2022, 03:28:51 PM

Golf, the one place where you can drink beer at 8am and not be judged for it.  Which could be why I golf.

you would also like fishing from a boat

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 10, 2022, 04:00:42 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 10, 2022, 03:53:15 PM

you would also like fishing from a boat

I was under the impression that you don't need a boat to day drink while fishing...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 10, 2022, 04:13:42 PM

It helps.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 10, 2022, 04:48:27 PM

I watched Don't Look Up over the weekend. 

Not really all that impressed, to be honest. My wife hated it and went to bed halfway through. 

I kinda get how they may have created it as a parallel to climate change, and agree with 94 that it's better as a mirror to hold up to our pandemic response, but in all honesty it doesn't work for either of those. 

• If climate change is potentially going to spiral out of control into an extinction-level event, or if it will destabilize world food production and geopolitical balances such that it leads to tremendous war and strife, either way it's not a single definable event. It's something that will progress over decades. So it doesn't make sense to look at it like a planet-killer comet.
• If the pandemic happened to be a MUCH worse disease, such as what was discussed in the book The End of October, then it might be interesting. But then our response would have also been much different than it was, where we aren't having stupid debates about masks because of a disease that's largely benign to roughly 99% of those who get it. COVID, for all its trouble, isn't an extinction-level event either. 

There were some funny moments, but it overall seemed like it missed the mark. 

That was disappointing, because I was really looking forward to it, and it didn't deliver. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 10, 2022, 04:58:42 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 10, 2022, 04:48:27 PM

I watched Don't Look Up over the weekend.

Not really all that impressed, to be honest. My wife hated it and went to bed halfway through.

I kinda get how they may have created it as a parallel to climate change, and agree with 94 that it's better as a mirror to hold up to our pandemic response, but in all honesty it doesn't work for either of those.

• If climate change is potentially going to spiral out of control into an extinction-level event, or if it will destabilize world food production and geopolitical balances such that it leads to tremendous war and strife, either way it's not a single definable event. It's something that will progress over decades. So it doesn't make sense to look at it like a planet-killer comet.
• If the pandemic happened to be a MUCH worse disease, such as what was discussed in the book The End of October, then it might be interesting. But then our response would have also been much different than it was, where we aren't having stupid debates about masks because of a disease that's largely benign to roughly 99% of those who get it. COVID, for all its trouble, isn't an extinction-level event either.

There were some funny moments, but it overall seemed like it missed the mark.

That was disappointing, because I was really looking forward to it, and it didn't deliver.

Yeah, this was basically my opinion as well.  They were (obviously, bluntly) depicting the stereotypical archetypes for the political parties and various business interests-- essentially limited to evil Republicans and corporations choosing profit over public welfare-- and that was the extent of their attempt at establishing parallels to be drawn to climate change (or, the pandemic response).

But it was just so ham-handed that it didn't land as satire or a thoughtful exploration of motivation and choice, rather those parts of the movie just came across as a blunt and poorly researched hatchet job of a political opponent.

I did laugh at a lot of the social media and pop culture stuff they poked fun at. Some of it-- probably too much of it-- rang true.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 10, 2022, 05:02:23 PM

If you like the end-of-the-world genre, I highly recommend the movie Seeking a Friend for the End of the World. 

It's really good for a premise of "we're all gonna die in 2 weeks"... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 10, 2022, 05:07:51 PM

I don't know if I'm particularly keen on the genre,  but I do love Dr. Strangelove.  That movie was a masterpiece.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 10, 2022, 05:17:48 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 10, 2022, 03:53:15 PM

you would also like fishing from a boat

Stole my thunder ,fish don't care - a jerk at one end of the line waiting for a jerk at the other

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 10, 2022, 05:20:20 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 10, 2022, 05:02:23 PM

If you like the end-of-the-world genre, I highly recommend the movie Seeking a Friend for the End of the World.

(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.kinja-img.com%2Fgawker-media%2Fimage%2Fupload%2Fs--vyyWRkow--%2F1401537538732057519.gif&hash=7124403df0a87271b6a5b3e9974a0b3e)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 14, 2022, 09:47:15 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/271787466_2334321906708735_4613998174344832843_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Qz1RBPR9EA0AX8zMYPV&tn=_MnT8OkIfzNoswba&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT-FEMi3BsSfSwxwBnHWq_Yd0-cXpXFpZtVRl9wZNoJ28w&oe=61E68449)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 14, 2022, 11:06:25 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/s640x640/271727035_1924772924373485_6535768420965501519_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=EbhYKaUcNNcAX-N2HiD&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9fYu_kZej0dQMzyYixjNCsBmwAtcya0oVb8ipYYxfyRQ&oe=61E779C3)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 14, 2022, 11:23:55 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 10, 2022, 05:07:51 PM

I don't know if I'm particularly keen on the genre,  but I do love Dr. Strangelove.  That movie was a masterpiece.

It’s amazing how much that movie holds up. I’m excited to not watch “don’t look Up.” It sounded like if you took some of the spirit of Vice but made it about 100 times more on the nose and a ham fisted.

If you’re gonna do an allegory, you better WOW me. And I don’t think I have found a trustworthy critic who said that was going to happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 15, 2022, 04:40:36 AM

Kevin Faulk left as the SEC's 2nd all-time leading rusher, behind only Herschel.

Mark Messner had ALL the sacks. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 15, 2022, 04:41:28 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 14, 2022, 11:23:55 PM

It’s amazing how much that movie holds up. I’m excited to not watch “don’t look Up.” It sounded like if you took some of the spirit advice but made it about 100 times more on the nose and a ham fisted.

If you’re gonna do an allegory, you better WOW me. And I don’t think I have found a trustworthy critic who said that was going to happen.

Something I've noticed about "Don't Look Up" is that many of the people lauding it are the same ones it makes fun of.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 15, 2022, 07:26:37 AM

The movie had an all star cast for sure, I just didn't pick up on the climate angle at all before reading about it later.  The way the "President" reacted was very similar to how some bosses would react at work back in the day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 15, 2022, 07:31:18 AM

The city is all alarmed at this weather report:

WINTER WEATHER ADVISORY IN EFFECT FROM MIDNIGHT TONIGHT TO MIDNIGHT EST SUNDAY NIGHT...

WHAT...Mixed precipitation expected. Total snow accumulations of up to one inch and ice accumulations of around one tenth of an inch.

WHERE...Portions of north central and northwest Georgia.

WHEN...From midnight tonight to midnight EST Sunday night.

IMPACTS...Plan on slippery road conditions.


PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

Slow down and use caution while traveling.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 15, 2022, 07:31:58 AM

We leave Monday for baseball in Florida and neighbors who know this asked if we would leave early.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 15, 2022, 07:47:34 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 15, 2022, 04:41:28 AM

Something I've noticed about "Don't Look Up" is that many of the people lauding it are the same ones it makes fun of. 

That’s true, but the movie pokes fun at pretty much everyone.   That’s why I enjoyed it. 

I still laugh when I think about the social media part; the world is coming to an end and people are more concerned about the Hollywood and twitter sex gossip.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 15, 2022, 08:45:00 AM

It was depressingly accurate about how humans react to "news" and their interests.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2022, 09:17:53 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 15, 2022, 04:40:36 AM

Kevin Faulk left as the SEC's 2nd all-time leading rusher, behind only Herschel.

Mark Messner had ALL the sacks. 

the names I don't remember from the list

Chuck Ealy and Dennis Thomas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on January 15, 2022, 09:19:19 AM

That movie sounds horrible. 

Climate change and Corona bros? Good Lord!

 You'd have to force me to watch it, Clockwork Orange style. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2022, 09:19:49 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 15, 2022, 07:31:18 AM

The city is all alarmed at this weather report:

WINTER WEATHER ADVISORY IN EFFECT FROM MIDNIGHT TONIGHT TO MIDNIGHT EST SUNDAY NIGHT...

WHAT...Mixed precipitation expected. Total snow accumulations of up to one inch and ice accumulations of around one tenth of an inch.

WHERE...Portions of north central and northwest Georgia.

WHEN...From midnight tonight to midnight EST Sunday night.

IMPACTS...Plan on slippery road conditions.


PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

Slow down and use caution while traveling.

this is exactly what we got yesterday afternoon and evening

roads were a bit slippery, most folks used caution
no one was alarmed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2022, 09:20:32 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on January 15, 2022, 09:19:19 AM

That movie sounds horrible.

Climate change and Corona bros? Good Lord!

 You'd have to force me to watch it, Clockwork Orange style.

yup, would take quite a bit of money or free beer to make me sit through it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 15, 2022, 10:15:26 AM

It's not obviously related to Climate Change of course, and it's well made, good dialogue and acting, I'd give it a solid B as movies go.  It's depressingly funny.

I bet most don't get any CC angle to it at all.

A few parts are stupid, like the first effort to deflect the comet which suddenly turns upside down on launch.  And the effort was manned, for no reason I could discern.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 15, 2022, 10:19:32 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 15, 2022, 09:19:49 AM

this is exactly what we got yesterday afternoon and evening

roads were a bit slippery, most folks used caution
no one was alarmed

Sheets of Ice around here starting last nite in the teens right now

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2022, 10:26:56 AM

up to 5 above here

sunny and little wind

a fine January morning

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 15, 2022, 10:31:22 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 15, 2022, 10:26:56 AM

up to 5 above here

sunny and little wind

a fine January morning

I golfed yesterday and will be hitting a bucket today.  This is the one time of year where I do prefer the weather that I have over just about anywhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2022, 10:39:29 AM

Top Golf knockoff - Great Shot was open in Sioux Falls SD until 1am this morning

I imagine the temp was around 3 below

I'd need a healthy discount, those heaters can only do so much

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on January 15, 2022, 10:41:32 AM

I visited winter weather last night. Headed up the road/mountain to Cedar City, where it was under 32 degrees at nightfall. Windy as Hell too. Even a little snow on the ground, in some shady corners that the Sun doesn't reach. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2022, 01:59:44 PM

Nebraska’s financial report to the NCAA for the 2021 fiscal year provides a look at the extent to which the COVID-19 pandemic disrupted business operations, and also at the way in which the athletic department was able to weather a year-plus with no fans in stands.

The department reported $92 million in revenue for fiscal 2021, which spanned July 1, 2020, to June 30, 2021, approximately $41.5 million less than 2020 and more than $44.1 million off its high-water mark in 2019, according to a copy of the report obtained via records request by the Journal Star.

The biggest driver for that decrease, of course, was the almost entire lack of fan presence during that 12-month period.

In most years, football alone drives more than $30 million in ticket revenue and another $5 million in concessions, merchandising and other gameday-related revenue. Overall in FY 2020, the department reported $38.1 million in ticket revenue and $5.9 million in concessions and merchandising.

In fiscal 2021, with the Big Ten limiting attendance to family only, the entire athletic department did $706,138 in ticket revenue. About $384,000 of that came from the spring baseball season, $302,000 from football and the rest from softball and soccer.

NU was also able to trim expenses from $124.1 million in FY 2019, the last year fully uninterrupted by the pandemic, to $104.1 million in 2021.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2022, 02:00:32 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 15, 2022, 10:31:22 AM

I golfed yesterday and will be hitting a bucket today.  This is the one time of year where I do prefer the weather that I have over just about anywhere.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p526x296/269750877_10158985057753650_1814821039297858646_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=tFa1lFZgbEUAX__IL8t&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT-jYk7MsErPJ06c2BFAw5sMRWBtNE1y7nLehi4DO07WaA&oe=61E878E5)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 15, 2022, 02:23:19 PM

U.S. intel suggests Russia is planning a false-flag operation - POLITICO (https://www.politico.com/news/2022/01/14/us-intel-russia-false-flag-operation-527112?fbclid=IwAR0szl_eVCSRNancVIvu54Oqagex7QuyJVmCHznqmbiChAYn5vAnhRNaqZY)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 15, 2022, 03:36:53 PM

Update: MARTA CEO Jeff Parker hit by train at East Lake station - SaportaReport (https://saportareport.com/breaking-marta-ceo-jeff-parker-is-dead/sections/reports/maria_saporta/)

Wow, he was MARTA GM and apparently committed suicide by jumping in front of a train.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on January 16, 2022, 09:40:19 AM

I’ve probably stated this before but I work for a very large chemical co. Not oil and gas, but we do make a lot of hydrocarbons. We burn a lot of fossil fuels to make these. The company acknowledges that CC is real, and they do a lot of talk about sustainability etc but as far as I can tell we really do nothing other than manipulate numbers, do small, non-commercial demos of cleaner energy/green energy with much hype and fan fare, etc. 

For example, sometimes we’ll sell off a unit or business due to economic reasons, and then the very next quarter you’ll hear them say they decreased emissions from that site by the exact number that the old unit makes. The emissions are still being produced, just not by our company. Often times we’ll still own a percentage of the unit, but we won’t get hit with the numbers. 

The one area we do care about is actual pollution. Not green house gasses, or GHG as known in the biz. When a new unit is built they are putting in way more equipment to reduce the pollution like a SCR in the top of fired equipment to reduce the NOx and other pollutants. 

But I swallowed that red pill about how much my company really cares about the environment and climate change a long time ago. The reality of it is we either need to invent new technology that will replace what we gain by burning fossil fuels, or revert to living like we’re in the late 1800’s, or just accept the consequences for CC while we incrementally improve our technology and slowly reduce GHG. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on January 16, 2022, 09:43:16 AM

And the third option is winning, by a long shot. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 10:21:59 AM

I''ve noted before how most of the efforts I've seen are bandaids for PR purposes.  I saw the same types of accounting where I worked.  Exxon likes to run commercials on stuff so they can appear to be going green, things like algae have known major issues, but they run with it as if it's a thing.  It isn't.

If we had a serious plan to replace coal with nuclear, I'd start to get interested.  You need to find the biggest bang for the buck and hit that, obviously, but we don't, we're mired in PR, the movie Don't Look Up touched on this, but not as well as they could have.

To me, it's ALL imagery, entirely, and not a serious effort to do anything substantial because that is impossible in practical terms.  Bandaids.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 16, 2022, 10:22:37 AM

Quote from: Gigem on January 16, 2022, 09:43:16 AM

And the third option is winning, by a long shot.

Sure is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 16, 2022, 10:47:30 AM

Florida tops states for new arrivals; many flock to smaller metros, including Punta Gorda | The Daily Sun | yoursun.com (https://www.yoursun.com/charlotte/florida-tops-states-for-new-arrivals-many-flock-to-smaller-metros-including-punta-gorda/article_8326cb2a-72f0-11ec-9f8c-6f9148e3f2fa.html)

Grrr....


The Top 10 states having the biggest migrations, according to United Van Lines, are New Jersey (number one), Illinois, New York, Connecticut, California, Michigan, Massachusetts, Louisiana, Ohio, and Nebraska.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 16, 2022, 10:52:27 AM

CRAP

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on January 16, 2022, 11:08:37 AM

What is everyone cooking up for MLK Day tomorrow? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 16, 2022, 11:11:47 AM

Every MLK day I think about my then 6 year old daughter saying Daddy we dont have school tomorrow cause its King Luther Day

priceless

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 16, 2022, 11:12:56 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 16, 2022, 10:47:30 AM

Florida tops states for new arrivals; many flock to smaller metros, including Punta Gorda | The Daily Sun | yoursun.com (https://www.yoursun.com/charlotte/florida-tops-states-for-new-arrivals-many-flock-to-smaller-metros-including-punta-gorda/article_8326cb2a-72f0-11ec-9f8c-6f9148e3f2fa.html)

Grrr....


The Top 10 states having the biggest migrations, according to United Van Lines, are New Jersey (number one), Illinois, New York, Connecticut, California, Michigan, Massachusetts, Louisiana, Ohio, and Nebraska.

Florida has always had tons of people coming in.  Sure, TX and AZ have had a big influx in the past 10-15 years, but FL is the standard - consistent and enduring.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 16, 2022, 11:15:15 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 16, 2022, 11:11:47 AM

Every MLK day I think about my then 6 year old daughter saying Daddy we dont have school tomorrow cause its King Luther Day

priceless

Many kids assume he was a president because of the holiday, statue, and speech.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 11:43:26 AM

I'm driving to Ocala tomorrow, so I'm not cooking.  I made chicken soup yesterday, it was quite good, and easy to make.  I added tumeric.

We've been consuming leftovers and extra stuff the "kids" bought and didn't eat.  I picked up to go from Fox Bros BBQ and got their "Foxaroni" as a side, nobody but me ate the Foxaroni.  I thought it was good, several times.

fox-bros_dekalb-menuUPDATED-PRICING (foxbrosbbq.com) (http://www.foxbrosbbq.com/downloads/fox-bros_dekalb-menu-food.pdf)

The have something called the "Tomminator" which is tots covered with Brunswick stew.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 16, 2022, 11:56:06 AM

Supposed to get some snow today (finally). Got a pot of chili in the oven and a 12 pack of Conway's Irish Ale in the minifridge, plus basketball and football all day. I am excited.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 16, 2022, 12:00:19 PM

Egg Plant Parmesan yesterday/today 😎

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 12:02:52 PM

If you call it aubergine, it sounds fancier.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 16, 2022, 12:04:35 PM

War Eagleine

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 16, 2022, 12:13:20 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on January 16, 2022, 11:08:37 AM

What is everyone cooking up for MLK Day tomorrow?

Tomorrow I think it's crock pot chili. Wife has to work. I'm off, and we have the kids, but I have errands to run with the kids so I can't baby the smoker all afternoon for something fun.

Been a good weekend so far tho...

• Fri: grilled pork tenderloin with sauteed shredded Brussels sprouts (w/ shallot and bacon).
• Sat: grilled tri tip with Bobby Flay pinquinto beans and grilled corn with tarragon butter.
• Sun: wok-fried shrimp with rice / cauliflower rice and roasted bok choy

BTW these beans are never fail. Literally everyone we've served them to asks for the recipe. So here you go: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/bobby-flay/santa-maria-style-bbq-tri-tip-recipe-2014974.amp

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 12:26:58 PM

I take the garbage out to the recycle bin which is on 3 and get on the elevator to go to 2 and the elevator stops, and then jerks, and then jerks again pretty seriously, not a good feeling.  Finally it resumes and opens on 2 and I tell the front desk so they took it out of service.

I thought I might get stuck there, and with the snow it would be bad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 12:44:43 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/KoGuH8L.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 16, 2022, 12:50:49 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 16, 2022, 10:47:30 AM

Florida tops states for new arrivals; many flock to smaller metros, including Punta Gorda | The Daily Sun | yoursun.com (https://www.yoursun.com/charlotte/florida-tops-states-for-new-arrivals-many-flock-to-smaller-metros-including-punta-gorda/article_8326cb2a-72f0-11ec-9f8c-6f9148e3f2fa.html)

Grrr....


The Top 10 states having the biggest migrations, according to United Van Lines, are New Jersey (number one), Illinois, New York, Connecticut, California, Michigan, Massachusetts, Louisiana, Ohio, and Nebraska.

If it makes you feel any better, extremely South Dakota and West Virginia placed higher on the inbound metric.

Also, you’re one of those people. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 16, 2022, 12:52:05 PM

I am one of those people.

I'm worried about those people.

:96:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 12:53:14 PM

Florida and Texas make a lot of sense, especially for retirees.  I lived in cold weather 38 years, did not like it one bit.

And now it's followed me here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 16, 2022, 12:59:46 PM

:86:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 16, 2022, 01:23:47 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 12:26:58 PM

I take the garbage out to the recycle bin which is on 3 and get on the elevator to go to 2 and the elevator stops, and then jerks, and then jerks again pretty seriously, not a good feeling.  Finally it resumes and opens on 2 and I tell the front desk so they took it out of service.

I thought I might get stuck there, and with the snow it would be bad.

Yeah, if it's snowing in a stuck elevator, it's a worse blizzard than I thought! :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 16, 2022, 01:29:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 11:43:26 AM

I'm driving to Ocala tomorrow, so I'm not cooking.  I made chicken soup yesterday, it was quite good, and easy to make.  I added tumeric.

We've been consuming leftovers and extra stuff the "kids" bought and didn't eat.  I picked up to go from Fox Bros BBQ and got their "Foxaroni" as a side, nobody but me ate the Foxaroni.  I thought it was good, several times.

fox-bros_dekalb-menuUPDATED-PRICING (foxbrosbbq.com) (http://www.foxbrosbbq.com/downloads/fox-bros_dekalb-menu-food.pdf)

The have something called the "Tomminator" which is tots covered with Brunswick stew. 

I wonder what % of the country knows what Brunswick Stew is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 01:37:50 PM

The bar next door claims to have invented Totchos.

Mebbe so.

The snow is beginning to STICK.

Oh my goodness, and we have no bread at all in the house.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 16, 2022, 01:44:15 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 01:37:50 PM

The bar next door claims to have invented Totchos.

Mebbe so.

The snow is beginning to STICK.

Oh my goodness, and we have no bread at all in the house.

Now they need to proliferate. That and cheese curds.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 01:46:48 PM

Cheese curds is not a thing around here.  Totchos have become quite popular, along with shrimp and grits.  Totchos are actually pretty good, they have a  variety of types now.  But they are replete with grease.

The Nook on Piedmont Park – Midtown’s true neighborhood tavern (thenookatlanta.com) (https://thenookatlanta.com/)

The owner is apparently a Michigan State fan.

(https://i.imgur.com/GwUY7rC.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 16, 2022, 02:04:01 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 16, 2022, 10:47:30 AM

Florida tops states for new arrivals; many flock to smaller metros, including Punta Gorda | The Daily Sun | yoursun.com (https://www.yoursun.com/charlotte/florida-tops-states-for-new-arrivals-many-flock-to-smaller-metros-including-punta-gorda/article_8326cb2a-72f0-11ec-9f8c-6f9148e3f2fa.html)

Grrr....


The Top 10 states having the biggest migrations, according to United Van Lines, are New Jersey (number one), Illinois, New York, Connecticut, California, Michigan, Massachusetts, Louisiana, Ohio, and Nebraska.

you understand that you are part of this problem

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 02:07:49 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/Sgh0ysq.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 16, 2022, 02:11:12 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on January 16, 2022, 11:08:37 AM

What is everyone cooking up for MLK Day tomorrow?

MLK day here is only for government workers - not many others have the day off

I may have brats with homemade kraut and mustard for the Monday Night game

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 16, 2022, 02:34:38 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 16, 2022, 02:04:01 PM

you understand that you are part of this problem

But I'm not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 16, 2022, 02:41:23 PM

WASHINGTON (AP) — From the inaugural platform, President Joe Biden saw American sickness on two fronts — a disease of the national spirit and the one from the rampaging coronavirus — and he saw hope, because leaders always must see that.

“End this uncivil war,” he implored Americans on Jan. 20, 2021. Of the pathogen, he said: “We can overcome this deadly virus.”

Neither malady has abated.

For Biden, it’s been a year of lofty ambitions grounded by the unrelenting pandemic, a tough hand in Congress, a harrowing end to an overseas war and rising fears for the future of democracy itself. Biden did score a public-works achievement for the ages. But America’s cracks go deeper than pavement.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 03:36:03 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/TXQSITJ.jpg)

Mauna Kea, as seen from Volcano NP about 70 miles to the south, take with a 400 mm lens at max zoom.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 03:37:20 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/zlfhYVL.jpg)

Mauna Loa, by far the largest mountain on the planet in terms of volume.  It too is nearly 14,000 feet in elevation above sea level with another 20,000 below sea level.  It is tough to imagine its size.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 03:38:13 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/kdSLQRe.jpg)

Mauna Kea again, with less zoom.  Our trip to the top was cancelled three nights in a row due to snow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 03:39:54 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/G0Hp33x.jpg)

Inside Kilaeua crater, the crater inside is called Halemaʻumaʻu .  It is currently erupting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 03:40:55 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/xEMcT1j.jpg)

The southern coast line in Volcano NP

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 03:41:45 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/zTM0hrC.jpg)

My Buckeye daughter looking at her phone on Chain of Craters road.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 03:42:17 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/iFEgYi5.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 03:42:51 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/xgvJLpV.jpg)

NE coast off Kohala Mountain

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 03:43:36 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/fLQRxsx.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 03:44:04 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/e6QhqVZ.jpg)

Waipio Valley

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 03:44:44 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/unMc8CJ.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 03:45:05 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/y9ueGCC.jpg)

Typical "beach", feel free to dive in ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 03:46:13 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/z14KnQ6.jpg)

Mauna Kea from our condo balcony, taking at high mag.  The structures are observatories.  Our trip to the top was cancelled.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 03:46:56 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/fapgSKY.jpg)

Rainbow Falls near Hilo on the SE side of the island.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 03:48:57 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/rZP3IVS.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 16, 2022, 07:09:13 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 16, 2022, 02:34:38 PM

But I'm not.

That's true.

There isn't really a problem at all. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 16, 2022, 08:33:06 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 16, 2022, 03:43:36 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/fLQRxsx.jpg)

Was that beach open to swimming?I know it's volcanic sand,still looks nice - in it's own way

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 17, 2022, 07:46:50 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 16, 2022, 08:33:06 PM

Was that beach open to swimming?I know it's volcanic sand,still looks nice - in it's own way

It is, I didn't see anyone swimming there.  The rocks under the water can really cut your feet up in places, even at the public beaches like Hapuna.  Most of the coast line is just rock and surf.  This was at Polulu Point, if I spelled that correctly/  The road ends near there, we walked down a path to get to the ocean.

The public beaches have brownish sand and I suspect they cleared some of the rocks, maybe.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on January 17, 2022, 10:18:47 AM

My younger brother disobeyed (everybody) when he decided to bring home some of that black sand.  He (five at the time) managed to conceal a couple tablespoons worth.    He ended up spilling it in his bed back at home, and we swear he was cursed with sand in his sheets forever more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 17, 2022, 12:05:11 PM

His significant other prolly enjoyed that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on January 17, 2022, 04:20:35 PM

Took kids (and their friends) bowling today.   We like going on Monday holidays.    I've found paying out progressive cash prizes for split/washout conversions or getting a pin outside the rake to be the best way to go with bowling with kids.      I almost took a $50 bath today when my 10 year old almost made a 2-7-10.   When they play with the bumpers they can get the perfect angles.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 17, 2022, 04:30:32 PM

In Ocala, Fl, 59 degrees.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 17, 2022, 04:40:22 PM

winter weather

hope you survive

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 17, 2022, 04:41:20 PM

68 down here.

It's winter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 17, 2022, 04:45:04 PM

68 and sunny right now, gonna hit 75 over the next couple days.  Second half of the week we'll have some overnight freezing though, and maybe even precipitation.

Winter in Texico, same as it ever was.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 17, 2022, 04:53:08 PM

Got the kids. I'm off (as they are), but my wife has to work. So I couldn't get out to play golf with my son.

I sent him off for his first solo round at the little exec course. 

Seems a bit surreal, despite the fact that when I was his age (14) I was riding my bike 5 miles each way, starting before 6 AM, during the summers to get to the job at the golf course where I worked. And before that it was my bike to get me to my caddie job the previous summer. 

Different times. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on January 17, 2022, 05:04:59 PM

Yep,  we'd leave the house in morning and would be expected back by X pm for dinner.   Maybe we had a bag lunch with our mitt, our bat, swim trunks, fishing pole, whatever you happened to be doing that day.    

btw; is it me or why does it seem that every 'executive' golf course I've ever played is one of those where you feel like you need a helmet?   the routing is awful,  you're always on guard and there's constantly people from other holes playing from your fairway (or tee!) or you're doing the same to others.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 17, 2022, 05:16:06 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on January 17, 2022, 05:04:59 PM

btw; is it me or why does it seem that every 'executive' golf course I've ever played is one of those where you feel like you need a helmet?  the routing is awful,  you're always on guard and there's constantly people from other holes playing from your fairway (or tee!) or you're doing the same to others.

Well, the defining feature of most exec courses is that they simply don't have enough available land to be "real" courses. If they had more land, they'd be full-length courses. So they're trying to get the most compact routing they can. 

Because they're so short, they don't tend to attract a lot of "expert" golfers. Rather, they attract all manner of hackers, duffers, and general novices. So not only is the routing compact, you have a TON of players that couldn't find their own fairway anyway. 

So compact routing + bad golfers = danger.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on January 17, 2022, 05:28:00 PM

no question about it.   It also seems to bring in the pull cart crowd.   ... now I'm just being snobby.     I do love playing some of the purposefully designed par 3 courses.    There's one in the Black Hills which is spectacular, and I can think of a few beauties in WI and MI.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 17, 2022, 06:00:02 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on January 17, 2022, 05:28:00 PM

no question about it.  It also seems to bring in the pull cart crowd.  ... now I'm just being snobby.    I do love playing some of the purposefully designed par 3 courses.    There's one in the Black Hills which is spectacular, and I can think of a few beauties in WI and MI.

Hey, I resemble that remark!

Walking a course is the proper way to experience golf IMHO. Given that caddies are expensive [and not like you could find one] and that carrying ones own bag is a lot of work, pull-carts (or push-carts in my case) are a way for people who enjoy walking the course to continue to do so. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on January 17, 2022, 07:15:01 PM

When Erin Hills first opened (it wasn't ready, orignal owner was bleeding money and had to open) he offered pull carts for us calvary players, as there were no signs up, no forecaddies or caddies yet andhad to look at a hard copy satellite map of 9 pages to locate tee boxes with the tall fescue obscuring view otherwise.   Wo the pull carts we would have died.    Such a memorable round.    I love walking my rounds.  Easier to find your ball and frankly cart golf isn't any faster unless solo.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Kris60 on January 17, 2022, 07:51:40 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 17, 2022, 06:00:02 PM

Hey, I resemble that remark!

Walking a course is the proper way to experience golf IMHO. Given that caddies are expensive [and not like you could find one] and that carrying ones own bag is a lot of work, pull-carts (or push-carts in my case) are a way for people who enjoy walking the course to continue to do so.

When I was in college I worked at a golf course. Cashier, picking up range balls, cleaning clubs, washing carts, grunt work.

Anyway, the pro there at the time would tell young kids the way to properly play golf was to walk the course.  However, he got a cut of the cart revenue that came in so anytime someone showed up and wanted to walk he would get annoyed and sometimes be noticeably rude to them.

The irony of his dueling outlooks on walking  was always lost on him.  I’ve seen him talk about the virtues of walking and then cuss a walker “as a cheap motherf*****” within a span of 10 minutes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 17, 2022, 08:37:12 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 17, 2022, 04:53:08 PM

Got the kids. I'm off (as they are), but my wife has to work. So I couldn't get out to play golf with my son.

I sent him off for his first solo round at the little exec course.

Seems a bit surreal, despite the fact that when I was his age (14) I was riding my bike 5 miles each way, starting before 6 AM, during the summers to get to the job at the golf course where I worked. And before that it was my bike to get me to my caddie job the previous summer.

Different times.

(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.themoviedistrict.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F08%2Fcaddyshack02B.jpg&hash=3056f25c22301697997164d474ec66ed)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 17, 2022, 11:59:02 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 17, 2022, 08:37:12 PM

(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.themoviedistrict.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F08%2Fcaddyshack02B.jpg&hash=3056f25c22301697997164d474ec66ed)

That movie was made the year I was born.

Met a smokin hot blonde a year younger than me at Purdue named Lacy. Assume the name came from the film. Sadly, the story didn't get any more interesting than that :91:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 18, 2022, 12:33:31 AM

Ya,well when she saw your blog Unapologetic Prick (or what ever) she concluded you weren't a rock of journalistic credibility. Now if you could play like TY and had checks for 35K laying around you might have had a puncher's chance

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 18, 2022, 09:41:39 AM

This is the current picture on the front page. I get scared when I see this picture. They look scary. One of them looks like she's ready to bite off a dick. I have bad dreams about this picture.

How do we make it go away?

(https://i.imgur.com/NaXEjWX.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 18, 2022, 10:06:41 AM

you must be getting old, those girls wouldn't have scared me back in the 80s or 90s

I''d wade right in

but then, I'm Fearless

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 18, 2022, 10:21:13 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 18, 2022, 10:06:41 AM

you must be getting old, those girls wouldn't have scared me back in the 80s or 90s

I''d wade right in

but then, I'm Fearless

BOO!

(https://i.imgur.com/9kNW6gQ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 18, 2022, 10:23:40 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 17, 2022, 11:59:02 PM

That movie was made the year I was born.

Met a smokin hot blonde a year younger than me at Purdue named Lacy. Assume the name came from the film. Sadly, the story didn't get any more interesting than that :91:

she didn't enjoy skinny skiing?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 18, 2022, 10:25:30 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 18, 2022, 10:21:13 AM

BOO!

(https://i.imgur.com/9kNW6gQ.png)

Ducks don't have teeth
I'd prefer her as a brunette, but I'm not that picky

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 18, 2022, 10:26:18 AM

Desperados seldom are

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 18, 2022, 10:40:05 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 17, 2022, 06:00:02 PM

Hey, I resemble that remark!

Walking a course is the proper way to experience golf IMHO. Given that caddies are expensive [and not like you could find one] and that carrying ones own bag is a lot of work, pull-carts (or push-carts in my case) are a way for people who enjoy walking the course to continue to do so.

If you follow the headlines, you may have read about a California bill known as AB672. It is listed on the docket under the heading, ‘Publicly owned golf courses: conversion: affordable housing.’

The proposed legislation would incentivize cities to repurpose their munis by offering them state funds to build housing on the courses.

AB672’s author is Cristina Garcia, a State Assemblymember who represents a district in east Los Angeles. When I spoke with her late last spring, shortly after she first brought the bill to the floor, Garcia told me that she had no gripe with golf. She simply wondered whether, in densely populated areas of the state, munis were the best use of public land. AB672, she said at the time, was her way of “planting a flag in the ground and starting a conversation.”

According to data from the National Golf Foundation and the Southern California Golf Association, 22 percent of courses in California are munis. They represent about 45 percent of rounds played, and some 90 percent of the game’s growth and diversity programs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 18, 2022, 11:20:24 AM

Even if they have tee boxes and golf greens on them, they're still publicly owned green spaces, right?  I thought Californians valued such things?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 18, 2022, 01:06:00 PM

A little over 2 years ago our city purchased the local golf course that I most often play, and one of the reasons was to preserve green space. 

One of the others was to make sure it wouldn't be converted to high-density housing. Because the last thing South Orange County needs is more housing, right? 

Quote from: utee94 on January 18, 2022, 11:20:24 AM

Even if they have tee boxes and golf greens on them, they're still publicly owned green spaces, right?  I thought Californians valued such things?

Well, golf is a rich person sport, and they hate rich people. So the question is whether they like green space more than they hate rich people. 

They also like "affordable housing", as far as affordable housing is far away from themselves. If it gets too close, then you live near poor people, and they don't like that either. 

California is fun :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 18, 2022, 01:17:30 PM

You liking that new income tax proposal out there? 

That's gonna leave a mark if it passes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 18, 2022, 01:23:18 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 18, 2022, 01:17:30 PM

You liking that new income tax proposal out there?

That's gonna leave a mark if it passes.

just another socialistic plan to spread the wealth

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 18, 2022, 01:38:52 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 18, 2022, 01:17:30 PM

You liking that new income tax proposal out there?

That's gonna leave a mark if it passes.

Well my BIL already moved from Oregon to San Antonio... And my MIL is flying there today to look for a house as their Oregon house sold in a day. 

94's neighborhood is a short drive from San Antonio...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 18, 2022, 01:50:24 PM

and they have plenty of Budweiser at the San Anton Sea World

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 18, 2022, 02:03:14 PM

It should be clear that the plan is not just your typical California "soak the rich" plan. It's to replace private health insurance with single-payer. 

So there should be, in some way, offsetting savings in health care / insurance spending that balance to some degree the additional taxes. 

It wouldn't surprise me if many employers, especially white-collar jobs, simply raise their employee wages in a one-time move in the amount of money that the employer currently spends on premiums insuring said employees. 

That said, it would likely be still be a significant net negative for my family, as our income would mean that the additional taxes would likely exceed the savings by a significant margin. And then we'd be stuck with single-payer health care, which would likely be a downgrade, as right now we've got tremendous insurance benefits by being part of a large multinational tech company. 

And let's be honest... If this DOES pass, it's just a matter of time before it spreads to your states... Even Florida. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 18, 2022, 02:04:33 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t45.1600-4/cp0/q90/spS444/p526x296/272151339_23849372445870785_6673186354675255007_n.png.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=67cdda&_nc_ohc=QLGMOjKVc3oAX-RW3uw&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_xEYuVIdDSzkJ_2Z9QnQSI-QFzPd-QDAWC7WfDwKl6hw&oe=61EB7655)

down from 6%

I'm ALL for it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 18, 2022, 02:08:11 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 18, 2022, 02:03:14 PM

It should be clear that the plan is not just your typical California "soak the rich" plan. It's to replace private health insurance with single-payer.

So there should be, in some way, offsetting savings in health care / insurance spending that balance to some degree the additional taxes.

It wouldn't surprise me if many employers, especially white-collar jobs, simply raise their employee wages in a one-time move in the amount of money that the employer currently spends on premiums insuring said employees.

That said, it would likely be still be a significant net negative for my family, as our income would mean that the additional taxes would likely exceed the savings by a significant margin. And then we'd be stuck with single-payer health care, which would likely be a downgrade, as right now we've got tremendous insurance benefits by being part of a large multinational tech company.

And let's be honest... If this DOES pass, it's just a matter of time before it spreads to your states... Even Florida.

Probably not Florida or Texas, or many of the rest of the states with zero state income taxes, sans Washington.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 18, 2022, 02:20:43 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 18, 2022, 02:03:14 PM

It should be clear that the plan is not just your typical California "soak the rich" plan. It's to replace private health insurance with single-payer.

So there should be, in some way, offsetting savings in health care / insurance spending that balance to some degree the additional taxes.

It wouldn't surprise me if many employers, especially white-collar jobs, simply raise their employee wages in a one-time move in the amount of money that the employer currently spends on premiums insuring said employees.

That said, it would likely be still be a significant net negative for my family, as our income would mean that the additional taxes would likely exceed the savings by a significant margin. And then we'd be stuck with single-payer health care, which would likely be a downgrade, as right now we've got tremendous insurance benefits by being part of a large multinational tech company.

And let's be honest... If this DOES pass, it's just a matter of time before it spreads to your states... Even Florida.

It probably won’t pass. Or if it does, it won’t do most of the scary things. So problem solved.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 18, 2022, 02:38:30 PM

this has been tried before on the state level with terrible results

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 18, 2022, 03:06:37 PM

Interesting observation today at the Grocery Store.  

My better half and I go in small trips- pick up a couple things so to speak.  

Well since 3 of my good friends are coming in for a golf weekend- I needed a “ Major trip” for groceries.  

Went up and down all the isles- and was surprised at how much empty shelves were prevalent.  

I am certainly NOT complaining as I feel we are fortunate to have the nearly unlimited consumer shopping choices we have. 

Just one of those things you have been reading about- but it really sinks in when you see it with your own eyes.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 18, 2022, 03:14:06 PM

Our grocery stores are still pretty well stocked but odd things go out of availability every now and then.

For example, our kids like to pack Cheez-its with their school lunches, and we typically buy the big box of individually wrapped packages of them.  But for a couple of months, we haven't been able to find them on store shelves, and then when we finally did, they only had the "extra toasty" version available.  The kids will somehow manage to live with those, but it's weird what you can't get, and what we took for granted, before all this started.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on January 18, 2022, 03:22:23 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 15, 2022, 10:39:29 AM

Top Golf knockoff - Great Shot was open in Sioux Falls SD until 1am this morning

I imagine the temp was around 3 below

I'd need a healthy discount, those heaters can only do so much

It was tough on Sunday, Temps were mid to upper 40s at tee time (7:40a).  Had to take the long sleeve pullover off by the time I hit the turn.  Saturday was a bit warmer in the 50s at 750a tee time.  Now Monday it was 70 at my 1230 tee off. One of the reasons on love living in AZ. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on January 18, 2022, 03:31:10 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 17, 2022, 05:16:06 PM

Well, the defining feature of most exec courses is that they simply don't have enough available land to be "real" courses. If they had more land, they'd be full-length courses. So they're trying to get the most compact routing they can.

Because they're so short, they don't tend to attract a lot of "expert" golfers. Rather, they attract all manner of hackers, duffers, and general novices. So not only is the routing compact, you have a TON of players that couldn't find their own fairway anyway.

So compact routing + bad golfers = danger.

We have some great executive courses around here.  I have not notice the compact routing.  In fact some of the full-length courses around here have worse compact routing. There is one in particular I play quite regularly.  Doesn't seem to have the issues that you all equate to executive courses. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 18, 2022, 03:58:44 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 18, 2022, 03:14:06 PM

Our grocery stores are still pretty well stocked but odd things go out of availability every now and then.

For example, our kids like to pack Cheez-its with their school lunches, and we typically buy the big box of individually wrapped packages of them.  But for a couple of months, we haven't been able to find them on store shelves, and then when we finally did, they only had the "extra toasty" version available.  The kids will somehow manage to live with those, but it's weird what you can't get, and what we took for granted, before all this started.

Cheez-its ROCK!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 18, 2022, 04:00:43 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 18, 2022, 03:58:44 PM

Cheez-its ROCK!

He is right though- random things not in stock. Ritz crackers, cream cheese, Pasta noodles, paper plates.   Odd things. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 18, 2022, 04:02:13 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on January 18, 2022, 03:22:23 PM

It was tough on Sunday, Temps were mid to upper 40s at tee time (7:40a).  Had to take the long sleeve pullover off by the time I hit the turn.  Saturday was a bit warmer in the 50s at 750a tee time.  Now Monday it was 70 at my 1230 tee off. One of the reasons on love living in AZ.

I'm tough enough to handle those conditions
Warm enough here today (58), but the wind is blowing 25mph
and I'm working
and all the courses are closed for the season

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 18, 2022, 04:05:15 PM

I had to make a run to Ralph's (local version of Kroger) today because we like their carne asada, so I tried to pick up the Kroger brand spicy cheese stick pack. I think it's 1/2 chipotle cheddar and 1/2 habanero jack, or something like that. 

That's the one that has been hit-or-miss for roughly the last year+. 

My wife hates Ralph's (she's a Pavilions girl). I do the Costco runs and she does the grocery runs, so the only time I can even look for it is when we have an off-schedule purchase where I go to Ralph's. And I see those cheese sticks maybe one trip out of 5, at best. 

Pisses me off. #firstworldproblems

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 18, 2022, 04:25:13 PM

Mine just got back. Lots of stuff on my list that they didn't have.

We're going to the bar tonight.

Gonna wear my brand new "Bare Shelves _____" shirt. It fits, literally and figuratively.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 18, 2022, 04:38:38 PM

I'm going to a dinner party at a friend's house

high school class of 81

group of old folks enjoying drinking, dining, and stories about the glory daze

I'm bringing Roku Gin, limes, and Tonic

The host asked me to be the bartender, she has a great bar and VERY well stocked

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 18, 2022, 05:07:39 PM

Some parts of the grocery shelves were low this weekend, but we also had snow, which makes people do insane things when it comes to groceries. 

Interestingly, I’ve pretty often been able to get my preferred cut of chicken, which is oft-hard to secure. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 18, 2022, 05:13:19 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 18, 2022, 05:07:39 PM

Some parts of the grocery shelves were low this weekend, but we also had snow, which makes people do insane things when it comes to groceries.

Interestingly, I’ve pretty often been able to get my preferred cut of chicken, which is oft-hard to secure.

Ok, you're gonna have to explain this one. I've never had any trouble getting chicken, anywhere, and any particular cut. 

So I've gotta ask what cut of chicken is hard to secure lol...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 18, 2022, 05:15:20 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 18, 2022, 05:13:19 PM

Ok, you're gonna have to explain this one. I've never had any trouble getting chicken, anywhere, and any particular cut.

So I've gotta ask what cut of chicken is hard to secure lol...

This feels like one of those "are you sure you want to know" situations

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 18, 2022, 05:20:14 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 18, 2022, 05:13:19 PM

Ok, you're gonna have to explain this one. I've never had any trouble getting chicken, anywhere, and any particular cut.

So I've gotta ask what cut of chicken is hard to secure lol...

Chicken wings have been in short supply for almost a year now.  They're less frequently found in the grocery store, sometimes not available at all, and when you do find them they're significantly more expensive than they used to be.

Other than that though, we haven't had any issues here, at least not since the VERY early months of the pandemic, when the Tyson plants were hard-hit with COVID and ceased operating periodically.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 18, 2022, 05:23:09 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 18, 2022, 05:13:19 PM

Ok, you're gonna have to explain this one. I've never had any trouble getting chicken, anywhere, and any particular cut.

So I've gotta ask what cut of chicken is hard to secure lol...

Bone-in skinless thighs. People want boneless skinless, which are expensive and just tiny skinless chicken breasts, or regular thighs.

I like the bone-in, skinless because I get the illusion of health while they still have enough fat to stay juicy and can be cooked to eternity if I get distracted. I respect that I could buy skin on and take it off, but frankly, once it’s there and flavorful, I’m not prone to letting it go to waste.

For whatever reason, it’s always hit or miss with availability.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 18, 2022, 05:28:42 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 18, 2022, 05:15:20 PM

This feels like one of those "are you sure you want to know" situations

😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 18, 2022, 05:32:09 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 18, 2022, 05:23:09 PM

Bone-in skinless thighs. People want boneless skinless, which are expensive and just tiny skinless chicken breasts, or regular thighs.

I like the bone-in, skinless because I get the illusion of health while they still have enough fat to stay juicy and can be cooked to eternity if I get distracted. I respect that I could buy skin on and take it off, but frankly, once it’s there and flavorful, I’m not prone to letting it go to waste.

For whatever reason, it’s always hit or miss with availability.

Interesting, I've never thought to even look for that. Boneless skinless thighs are my go to for fried chicken sandwiches, mostly because they are perfectly shaped and like you said, much more impervious to overcooking. Also glad you aren't into chicken chitlins.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 18, 2022, 06:17:20 PM

I don't believe I've ever seen chicken intestines for sale anywhere?

Livers and gizzards, on the other hand, are a delicious delicacy when fried up Southern-style.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 18, 2022, 06:58:18 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 18, 2022, 05:23:09 PM

Bone-in skinless thighs. People want boneless skinless, which are expensive and just tiny skinless chicken breasts, or regular thighs.

I like the bone-in, skinless because I get the illusion of health while they still have enough fat to stay juicy and can be cooked to eternity if I get distracted. I respect that I could buy skin on and take it off, but frankly, once it’s there and flavorful, I’m not prone to letting it go to waste.

For whatever reason, it’s always hit or miss with availability.

LOL... So you're asking for a cut of chicken to be your diet police. Got it :57:

Chicken thighs (bone-in, with skin) are something like $0.99/lb in big packs at Costco--haven't looked at the grocer. For that, I'd pull the skin off myself. Or, I wouldn't, because the skin is delicious... Which I guess is your point. 

But if you want to search out cuts of meat because you have no self-control, well.........

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 18, 2022, 08:57:10 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 18, 2022, 06:58:18 PM

LOL... So you're asking for a cut of chicken to be your diet police. Got it :57:

Chicken thighs (bone-in, with skin) are something like $0.99/lb in big packs at Costco--haven't looked at the grocer. For that, I'd pull the skin off myself. Or, I wouldn't, because the skin is delicious... Which I guess is your point.

But if you want to search out cuts of meat because you have no self-control, well.........

Search? Diet? B.R.A.D, you're reading too much into this. 

I go to the grocer, I look for the cut of meat I feel cooks up well. If it's not there, I opt for a product that is a hair cheaper per unit that is a worthwhile substitute, even if I think it cooks up less well. If neither are there, I eat something else. 

This is not so complicated, certainly not engineering. 

(I do need to make the Costco plunge, even if it's going to mean overloading an apartment that doesn't have enough space as is)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 19, 2022, 07:42:19 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 18, 2022, 05:20:14 PM

Chicken wings have been in short supply for almost a year now.  They're less frequently found in the grocery store, sometimes not available at all, and when you do find them they're significantly more expensive than they used to be.

Other than that though, we haven't had any issues here, at least not since the VERY early months of the pandemic, when the Tyson plants were hard-hit with COVID and ceased operating periodically.

Yep. I don't do wings nearly as much as I used to.

The bar had them last night though, on the specials menu, for $1/each.

Regular menu has them too, listed at M.P.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 19, 2022, 08:24:28 AM

Now Taco Bell is going to carry chicken wings.  That can't help the shortage...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 19, 2022, 11:28:26 AM

Taco Bell is ruining the universe!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 19, 2022, 11:32:55 AM

The Bronson Bar

Hump day, WING day!
We have your boneless or traditional wings. Only $.75 each (minimum of 6, dine in only)


Broasted and awesome.............. I'll be there around 4:30

(https://i.imgur.com/U6TEbDP.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 19, 2022, 11:52:58 AM

Skip the fries and eat more wings!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 19, 2022, 11:59:49 AM

I got sick eating a bunch of Wing Stop boneless wings.....too much fried stuff, not enough chicken. 

Back in high school, we ate an obscene number of wings.  Looking back, it's absurd.  50-60-70, for real.  It was on Wednesday nights, and since games were Friday, our Thursday practice was helmets only and easy.  The farts emitted every Thursday practice were toxic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 19, 2022, 12:13:09 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 19, 2022, 11:52:58 AM

Skip the fries and eat more wings!!

I always get the hottest sauce available
gotta have some starch to soak up the hot sauce or things get real about 3am
trial and error

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 19, 2022, 12:15:19 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 19, 2022, 11:59:49 AM

I got sick eating a bunch of Wing Stop boneless wings.....too much fried stuff, not enough chicken. 

Back in high school, we ate an obscene number of wings.  Looking back, it's absurd.  50-60-70, for real.  It was on Wednesday nights, and since games were Friday, our Thursday practice was helmets only and easy.  The farts emitted every Thursday practice were toxic.

back in the mid-90s, (I was mid 30s) I'd split a platter of 50 wings with someone at Hooters. with taters

can't eat 25 wings anymore.
a dozen is plenty for an old guy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 19, 2022, 12:16:37 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 18, 2022, 08:57:10 PM

(I do need to make the Costco plunge, even if it's going to mean overloading an apartment that doesn't have enough space as is)

I'm in a 1200 sf house, and 40% of the time there are 5 people and a large dog living here, so I get it re: space. 

I still spend $250+ a week at Costco though lol. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 19, 2022, 12:19:59 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 19, 2022, 12:13:09 PM

I always get the hottest sauce available
gotta have some starch to soak up the hot sauce or things get real about 3am
trial and error

A glass of milk at home before bed takes care of those issues.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 19, 2022, 12:28:07 PM

There may be a wing "shortage" to some extent, but it's also a byproduct of chicken wing economics. 

A whole chicken can easily feed a family of four. The "wing" portion of that same chicken is half an appetizer. 

That means if you want to eat "chicken", killing one bird provides 3-4 meals. If you decide you want to eat "wings", it probably requires the death of 3 birds for a single meal. 

Beef tenderloin is expensive because on a cow that yields 400+ lbs of meat, there are two tenderloins weighing about 4-5 pounds each. So what is one of the most desired cuts of beef due to its tenderness is only 2.5% of the yield. Hence it's expensive. 

The same is true of wings. A chicken might yield ~5 lb of meat, two wings (4 wing "pieces") is maybe 8% of the weight of the bird. Yet because of the social nature of eating "wings" and their prominence as bar food, they are in high demand. 

We expect them to be cheap, because wings BECAME bar food by virtue of being cheap. But they're a victim of their own success, where now so many restaurants are offering boneless wings, using what was previously the most expensive and desired part of the chicken (breast) instead, to save money. 

Personally I don't know what's so great about chicken breast. IMHO the thigh is the most flavorful part of the bird. When McDonald's craved to public demand to make "all white meat" McNuggets, the quality went down significantly IMHO. Put that dark meat back in! That's the good stuff!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 19, 2022, 12:58:33 PM

I'll try it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 19, 2022, 01:16:49 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 19, 2022, 12:28:07 PM

There may be a wing "shortage" to some extent, but it's also a byproduct of chicken wing economics.

A whole chicken can easily feed a family of four. The "wing" portion of that same chicken is half an appetizer.

That means if you want to eat "chicken", killing one bird provides 3-4 meals. If you decide you want to eat "wings", it probably requires the death of 3 birds for a single meal.

Beef tenderloin is expensive because on a cow that yields 400+ lbs of meat, there are two tenderloins weighing about 4-5 pounds each. So what is one of the most desired cuts of beef due to its tenderness is only 2.5% of the yield. Hence it's expensive.

The same is true of wings. A chicken might yield ~5 lb of meat, two wings (4 wing "pieces") is maybe 8% of the weight of the bird. Yet because of the social nature of eating "wings" and their prominence as bar food, they are in high demand.

We expect them to be cheap, because wings BECAME bar food by virtue of being cheap. But they're a victim of their own success, where now so many restaurants are offering boneless wings, using what was previously the most expensive and desired part of the chicken (breast) instead, to save money.

Personally I don't know what's so great about chicken breast. IMHO the thigh is the most flavorful part of the bird. When McDonald's craved to public demand to make "all white meat" McNuggets, the quality went down significantly IMHO. Put that dark meat back in! That's the good stuff!

The Gene Siskel of chicken parts

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 19, 2022, 01:34:32 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 19, 2022, 11:32:55 AM

The Bronson Bar

Hump day, WING day!
We have your boneless or traditional wings. Only $.75 each (minimum of 6, dine in only)


Broasted and awesome.............. I'll be there around 4:30

(https://i.imgur.com/U6TEbDP.jpg)

Gotta swap those out for pub chips. That's where the money is. (I'm saying I really want wings and pub chips)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 19, 2022, 01:37:16 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 19, 2022, 12:28:07 PM

Personally I don't know what's so great about chicken breast. IMHO the thigh is the most flavorful part of the bird. When McDonald's craved to public demand to make "all white meat" McNuggets, the quality went down significantly IMHO. Put that dark meat back in! That's the good stuff!

A. Isn't there a thigh shortage now due to someone selling them as a wing alternative?
B. I think the breast carries the mantle of looking large and having the meat that seems "clean" in some way. Appeals to the simple palates (kids) and the semi-health food people and more importantly wannabe health food people (the people like me, but less quirky and interesting). 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 19, 2022, 01:39:08 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 19, 2022, 12:16:37 PM

I'm in a 1200 sf house, and 40% of the time there are 5 people and a large dog living here, so I get it re: space.

I still spend $250+ a week at Costco though lol.

Good gosh almighty. 

The thing is, you got five people and a dog consuming all that stuff. So that does help. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 19, 2022, 01:47:53 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 19, 2022, 01:37:16 PM

A. Isn't there a thigh shortage now due to someone selling them as a wing alternative?
B. I think the breast carries the mantle of looking large and having the meat that seems "clean" in some way. Appeals to the simple palates (kids) and the semi-health food people and more importantly wannabe health food people (the people like me, but less quirky and interesting).

For chicken breast to be good, it needs to be brined. Preferred cooking method would be to deep fry it from there, or make something like Chicken Francais.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 19, 2022, 02:23:01 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 19, 2022, 01:37:16 PM

A. Isn't there a thigh shortage now due to someone selling them as a wing alternative?
B. I think the breast carries the mantle of looking large and having the meat that seems "clean" in some way. Appeals to the simple palates (kids) and the semi-health food people and more importantly wannabe health food people (the people like me, but less quirky and interesting).

I know WingStop is apparently now selling thighs. But I haven't heard that there's any particular shortage of thighs. 

My thing when I get KFC is to get a 4-piece "leg & thigh" combo instead of the breast & wing combo. So much more flavor in those pieces. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 19, 2022, 02:54:29 PM

If I'm grilling, baking or sautéing chicken, it's thigh meat for sure, or brined breast.

If I'm frying, it's breast or wing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 19, 2022, 03:03:10 PM

I keep cooked chicken breast on hand in the fridge, it's the rare cheap meat that tastes fine cold because it is lean, so it's great for salads and is easy to use as a filling for tacos and other things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 19, 2022, 04:36:38 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 19, 2022, 11:32:55 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/U6TEbDP.jpg)

Tell them to make a place at the sink ,it really doesn't get any better,simply lip smackin'

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 19, 2022, 04:51:41 PM

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/bidens-infrastructure-bill-now-signed-law-mandates-vehicle-kill-switches-2026


I am obviously against this, strongly, and the reasons are numerous and obvious.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 20, 2022, 07:02:53 AM

Having fun playing baseball 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 20, 2022, 07:39:21 AM

Kinda chilly here now. Glad you're having fun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 20, 2022, 12:18:23 PM

Very chilly here.  34 for the expected high today.  It was almost 80 at my house yesterday.  So goes winter in Texico.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 20, 2022, 04:32:47 PM

Took a foul of the instep today

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 20, 2022, 04:33:56 PM

Had a double two walks

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 20, 2022, 10:09:35 PM

can't hit 300 with the bat on your shoulder

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 20, 2022, 11:46:02 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 20, 2022, 04:33:56 PM

Had a double two walks

Shouldn't be drinking i hope you walked it off

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 21, 2022, 07:30:47 AM

Ankle is sore but so is the rest of me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2022, 09:57:27 AM

Ben Gay is your best friend!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 21, 2022, 10:09:25 AM

FF some where out there it was suppose to be well below zero - hope you're heating up the rum.We've been well below average temps for over 2 weeks now it's 18 right now got down to 12 last nite with snow

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 21, 2022, 04:21:46 PM

Injury list

HBP on leg today
Contusion on knee sliding
Contusion on elbow diving for grounder 
Foul off instep
Legs and arms both shot
Game tomorrow 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: EastAthens on January 21, 2022, 05:23:12 PM

Like they say, getting old is not for sissies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 21, 2022, 05:26:05 PM

Getting older beats the alternative. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: EastAthens on January 21, 2022, 06:35:54 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 21, 2022, 05:26:05 PM

Getting older beats the alternative.

100%, at 62 I already feel it way more than I ever thought I would.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 21, 2022, 09:37:58 PM

I am questioning my sanity, I pay $5K to do this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 22, 2022, 12:49:15 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 21, 2022, 09:37:58 PM

I am questioning my sanity, I pay $5K to do this

It all goes to the medical staff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 22, 2022, 09:39:13 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 21, 2022, 09:37:58 PM

I am questioning my sanity, I pay $5K to do this

Hell, you can come to my place and I'll hit you with a pitch for free.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 22, 2022, 09:44:25 AM

you're blowin' $$$ opportunity badge

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 22, 2022, 10:24:53 AM

You'd make more $$$ if I'm the target.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 22, 2022, 10:48:18 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 22, 2022, 10:24:53 AM

You'd make more $$$ if I'm the target.

Where's Drew? I see an opportunity to finance the website hosting fees! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 22, 2022, 10:52:28 AM

For you video game guys:  Madden has some college legends teams.  They're the crap I hate  - mostly-recent players who did more in the NFL than in college.  Anyway, the reason I bring it up, check out this brilliance:

Tebow has 97 speed and 69 trucking.  
Who approves this crap?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2022, 11:05:53 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 21, 2022, 10:09:25 AM

FF some where out there it was suppose to be well below zero - hope you're heating up the rum.We've been well below average temps for over 2 weeks now it's 18 right now got down to 12 last nite with snow

was 4 below yesterday early morning
got some flurries last night
supposed to be 39 this afternoon
not bad for January 21-22

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2022, 11:06:25 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 21, 2022, 09:37:58 PM

I am questioning my sanity, I pay $5K to do this

not much of a question if you ask me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 22, 2022, 11:37:30 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 21, 2022, 09:37:58 PM

I am questioning my sanity, I pay $5K to do this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvDu3IysKiM

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 22, 2022, 11:47:30 AM

70s here all week.  Been getting down into the 40s overnight.  

Winter is rough.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 22, 2022, 01:08:10 PM

https://twitter.com/AppState_FB/status/1484692208259375110?t=XgcAwST7A-AcqaNLsxSvkQ&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 22, 2022, 04:11:11 PM

We were one win short of the CG which was a great game ending 2-1.  I feel pretty good.  We knocked another team out of the CG and I had a two rbi double, we won 4-1.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 22, 2022, 04:11:37 PM

I’m coming back next year 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 22, 2022, 04:17:03 PM

Kinda chilly today. Damp too. Feels like May in Chicago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 22, 2022, 04:28:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 22, 2022, 04:11:37 PM

I’m coming back next year

The Georgia fan's lament no longer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2022, 04:52:20 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 22, 2022, 04:11:37 PM

I’m coming back next year

not if you keep diving for grounders

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 22, 2022, 09:07:00 PM

The best promotion for free-market capitalism you'll ever see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLsscvpsH8E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLsscvpsH8E)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 23, 2022, 07:04:15 AM

Anyone concerned about a potential World War?

If Russia takes Ukraine, and China follows with Taiwan, then what?

Red line in the sand? War? What?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 23, 2022, 08:23:26 AM

Won't be long before we'll be in for a retooling - hope not

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 23, 2022, 08:26:25 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 22, 2022, 11:06:25 AM

not much of a question if you ask me

Well hell you put others in danger every time you pick up a club - let the youngster have some fun

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2022, 08:36:20 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 23, 2022, 07:04:15 AM

Anyone concerned about a potential World War?

If Russia takes Ukraine, and China follows with Taiwan, then what?

Red line in the sand? War? What?

you think Biden would be bold enough to go to war?

put some sanctions on them

besides, they're just taking back what was their's in the first place
Commies gonna Commie

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 23, 2022, 08:47:38 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 23, 2022, 08:36:20 AM

you think Biden would be bold enough to go to war?

put some sanctions on them

besides, they're just taking back what was their's in the first place
Commies gonna Commie

Some will say he's got some issues in Ukraine that limit his options. But he's also tied to NATO, which has vowed to intervene. This is a dangerous situation. 

Ukraine was a country of its own before Stalin took it. Lots of moving part there, throughout history. Putin appears to want to put the USSR band back together.

Then there is Taiwan. Lots of chips and other things are made there, for the USA. Some will say he's got some issues in China that limit his options, but the US has vowed to side with Taiwan. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2022, 08:59:25 AM

Stalin was a long time ago.  and we didn't go to war with Stalin, back when we had the balls to go to war

not sure if we go to war over chips, especially vs a formidable giant like China.  It's not oil.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 23, 2022, 09:13:06 AM

The US has not won a war since 1945, and we don't even win that one without Stalin's Eastern front to spread the Nazis out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2022, 09:22:09 AM

another solid reason Biden will do nothing but some sanctions

Hell, I don't think Trump would have gone to war over any of this

a war in Iran, Iraq, or Afghanistan is MUCH different than superpowers China and Russia

Russia and China know this 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 23, 2022, 09:35:50 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 23, 2022, 09:22:09 AM

another solid reason Biden will do nothing but some sanctions

Hell, I don't think Trump would have gone to war over any of this

a war in Iran, Iraq, or Afghanistan is MUCH different than superpowers China and Russia

Russia and China know this

He wouldn't have to. It probably would not be happening. Just a hunch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2022, 09:44:20 AM

yup, we shall never know, just like the origin of COVID

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on January 23, 2022, 10:34:55 AM

Trump nearly got the US into a full-blown shooting war with Iran in January 2020, when he ordered the top general in Iran killed. The only reason it didn't start is that the Iranians took favorable international opinion and promptly shot down a neutral commercial airliner leaving Tehran. 

It shows how crazy 2020 turned out to be that everyone has completely forgotten about this.

The reason the likelihood of WW3 starting in the Taiwan Strait or Korean DMZ is much higher because the US is tied much tighter by treaty to Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan than they are to the Ukraine. I think business like this is why NATO has been very slow to consider their admission into the bloc at any level, unlike the Baltic states, which were promptly admitted at independence.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 23, 2022, 10:50:15 AM

That general needed to be taken out. 

I don't care who ordered it. Could've been any of the last 4 presidents, or Mickey Mouse, and I'd still support that move.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on January 23, 2022, 11:44:32 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 23, 2022, 09:13:06 AM

The US has not won a war since 1945, and we don't even win that one without Stalin's Eastern front to spread the Nazis out.

Nor have they even tried.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 23, 2022, 11:50:26 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 23, 2022, 09:13:06 AM

The US has not won a war since 1945, and we don't even win that one without Stalin's Eastern front to spread the Nazis out.

WW2 would not have even started without Russia's alliance with Germany enabling the Germans to invade without fear

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 23, 2022, 12:31:17 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/gYnybZb.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 23, 2022, 12:38:43 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 23, 2022, 10:50:15 AM

That general needed to be taken out.

I don't care who ordered it. Could've been any of the last 4 presidents, or Mickey Mouse, and I'd still support that move.

Had to help our good and righteous friends the Saudis

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2022, 01:59:44 PM

let NATO handle the Ukraine 

w/o us

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 23, 2022, 02:48:55 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 23, 2022, 07:04:15 AM

Anyone concerned about a potential World War?

If Russia takes Ukraine, and China follows with Taiwan, then what?

Red line in the sand? War? What?

Yes. Very concerned. Biden is a completely useless f**king moron who employs other morons in the unelected bureaucracy like Tony Blinken who continually go on tv and spout nonsense publicly that inch us closer and closer to war with Russia- a country that holds about half of the worlds nuclear weapons. And a country that knows war and knows what it's like to have war touch their borders and lose millions of citizens and soldiers. They are a MUCH harder, tougher people than us. The United States and it's people have no idea what that is like. War has never truly touched US borders.

People do not understand this conflict at all. NATO is the problem. It is a relic from a bygone time that has come and gone and it needs to be disbanded. It is making the world more dangerous, not safer. The entire purpose of NATO was to protect Western Europe from the USSR. The USSR no longer exists. And hasn't for 30+ freaking years. Let the god damn Europeans pay for their own defense. This country bleeds enough money as it is. Let those smug EU bastards stand up and defend themselves.

De-classified documents show and prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that President Bush I and high ranking officials like secretary of state James Baker gave assurances to the leader of the USSR Mikhail Gorbachev that NATO would not expand "not one inch eastward" during talks to put together a treaty which would allow for the reunification of Germany and for the USSR to completely pull out of East Germany. Yeah, that obviously didn't happen. The US went back on their word, as usual.

It's pretty simple and I really do not understand why people do not understand this issue. Russia ABSOLUTELY does not want NATO and US missile systems, fighter jets, and troops encroaching on their border. Ukraine joining NATO would set that into motion and Russia cannot allow that. It is completely unacceptable to them for Ukraine to join NATO and to have US war machine right on their ass. And it should be unacceptable to them. Can you imagine if Mexico & Cuba joined some Russian backed military alliance and they started stationing missiles, troops, fighter jets, tanks, etc., etc., in our back yard? LOL. Shit would HIT THE F***KING FAN in a NY minute.

I say the US should try to make a treaty with Russia, and they should gang up and go blow the shit out of China. China is the real threat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 23, 2022, 02:59:47 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 23, 2022, 08:47:38 AM

Ukraine was a country of its own before Stalin took it. Lots of moving part there, throughout history. Putin appears to want to put the USSR band back together.

This just isn't true and I don't see the evidence for that. Russia is basically a mafia state and Putin is the top mob boss. He's had control of that country for nearly 25 years and there is no evidence that he's been trying to take over former soviet republics and reinstitute the USSR.

What he has done for the last 25 years is consolidate his own power & wealth, turn the state into his personal piggybank and murder and silence anyone who opposes his corruption. The guy is all about himself and what he can gain. It's been suggested that he may be the richest single man on earth and has stashed over $200 billion away in foreign bank accounts and shell companies, and he is said to have a secret $1 billion summer palace. He's not some ideologue who wishes to restore the USSR.

It's pretty simple. Russia sees Ukraine joining NATO and having US troops, missile systems, and fighter jets in Ukraine and right on it's border as a SERIOUS threat. As they should. Assurances were given to Gorbachev in '90 that NATO would NOT expand one inch east if the USSR would pull out of East Germany and allow for the reunification of Germany.  The US completely went back on their word and proceeded to expand NATO ever closer and closer to Russia's borders and if Ukraine joins NATO it'd be right on Russia's asshole- and Putin cannot allow that. As he shouldn't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 23, 2022, 03:03:30 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 23, 2022, 01:59:44 PM

let NATO handle the Ukraine

w/o us

The US is NATO. We fund it by as much as 75%. We control it.

NATO is the problem. There is zero reason for NATO to want to have Ukraine join it. Ukraine is not a Western European or North American country. Yet they are pushing for that very thing. Why? Really does not make sense.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 23, 2022, 03:09:11 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 23, 2022, 12:38:43 PM

Had to help our good and righteous friends the Saudis

Yeah, that was Trump, who smartly realized that unfortunately we have to kiss their ass as they control by far the largest chunk of easy accessible oil reserves in the entire world, and oh yeah they also pretty much kept the US dollar the reserve currency of the entire world by only allowing payment of their oil in US dollars- which became the worldwide standard. 

I don't like them at all, but the way the world is set-up- absolutely need them. And President Dipshit is such a f**kface he won't get the ruler of the Saudis, MbS on the phone and kiss his ass and go visit him and have him visit the US and beg him to ramp up oil production to help ease inflation. I believe that Biden still refuses to talk to him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 23, 2022, 06:05:20 PM

Nuke the whales. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 23, 2022, 06:10:54 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 23, 2022, 06:05:20 PM

Nuke the Chinese.

fixed it for you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 23, 2022, 07:10:27 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 23, 2022, 01:59:44 PM

let NATO handle the Ukraine

w/o us

NATO without us is literally 17 of those little green plastic army men toys.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 23, 2022, 07:14:41 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 23, 2022, 09:13:06 AM

The US has not won a war since 1945, and we don't even win that one without Stalin's Eastern front to spread the Nazis out.

All we need is a sovereign country to attack us where we can unleash the fury.  Declare war on us.  Both sides know what would happen.  

In the past 45 years, we've been Superman holding back, knowing that if we went full bore, it would yield all the death.  If an actual country came and tugged on our cape, it's lights out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 23, 2022, 07:37:44 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 23, 2022, 07:14:41 PM

All we need is a sovereign country to attack us where we can unleash the fury.  Declare war on us.  Both sides know what would happen. 

In the past 45 years, we've been Superman holding back, knowing that if we went full bore, it would yield all the death.  If an actual country came and tugged on our cape, it's lights out.

not exactly true. it's longer than 45 years ago, but a bunch of little Vietnamese men in a jungle armed with inferior weapons kicked the United States ass. And the US didn't hold anything back except for nuclear weapons. The US tried and failed to occupy Iraq and Afghanistan and impose puppet governments and they got their asses kicked by literal cavemen goat herders. 

Moral of the story: you can't take a country that doesn't want you there in the first place, and that you have no legitimate reason to be there in the first place. US soldiers don't even know what they were fighting for in those wars. Vietnamese, Iraqis, and Afghanis were fighting for their homes and their freedom from a foreign aggressor. That's a dangerous f'ing thing to fight against- and you'll lose every single time. Don't matter how big your d*ck is. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 23, 2022, 07:46:58 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 23, 2022, 06:10:54 PM

fixed it for you. I am s strange little man who needs to learn how to use strikethrough to make the joke work.

FIFY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 23, 2022, 07:57:59 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 23, 2022, 06:05:20 PM

Nuke the Gay whales.

FIFY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 23, 2022, 08:02:44 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 23, 2022, 07:37:44 PM

not exactly true. it's longer than 45 years ago, but a bunch of little Vietnamese men in a jungle armed with inferior weapons kicked the United States ass. And the US didn't hold anything back except for nuclear weapons. The US tried and failed to occupy Iraq and Afghanistan and impose puppet governments and they got their asses kicked by literal cavemen goat herders.

Moral of the story: you can't take a country that doesn't want you there in the first place, and that you have no legitimate reason to be there in the first place. US soldiers don't even know what they were fighting for in those wars. Vietnamese, Iraqis, and Afghanis were fighting for their homes and their freedom from a foreign aggressor. That's a dangerous f'ing thing to fight against- and you'll lose every single time. Don't matter how big your d*ck is.

TRUTH - DEfense Contractors reaping taxpayer funded windfalls and politicians taking pay outs - that is a sad fact.Drain the the swamp and keep your powder dry

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 23, 2022, 08:03:05 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 23, 2022, 07:37:44 PM

not exactly true. it's longer than 45 years ago, but a bunch of little Vietnamese men in a jungle armed with inferior weapons kicked the United States ass. And the US didn't hold anything back except for nuclear weapons. The US tried and failed to occupy Iraq and Afghanistan and impose puppet governments and they got their asses kicked by literal cavemen goat herders.

Moral of the story: you can't take a country that doesn't want you there in the first place, and that you have no legitimate reason to be there in the first place. US soldiers don't even know what they were fighting for in those wars. Vietnamese, Iraqis, and Afghanis were fighting for their homes and their freedom from a foreign aggressor. That's a dangerous f'ing thing to fight against- and you'll lose every single time. Don't matter how big your d*ck is.

Didn't we just throw wave after wave of 19 year olds at them?  

If someone like North Korea shot a missle that landed close to Seattle (was an actual threat), we'd make South Korea an island and no troops would set foot over there until we cratered the country.


*I know, I know, they share a border with China, so we couldn't just do that, but you know what I mean.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 23, 2022, 08:03:34 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 23, 2022, 08:02:44 PM

TRUTH - DEfense Contractors reaping taxpayer funded windfalls and politicians taking pay outs - that is a sad fact.Drain the the swamp and keep your powder dry

When has the swamp ever been dry?  I'll hang up and listen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 23, 2022, 08:17:50 PM

Put down the phone and re-read,maybe you know an instructor

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2022, 08:34:37 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 23, 2022, 03:03:30 PM

The US is NATO. We fund it by as much as 75%. We control it.

NATO is the problem. There is zero reason for NATO to want to have Ukraine join it. Ukraine is not a Western European or North American country. Yet they are pushing for that very thing. Why? Really does not make sense.

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 23, 2022, 07:10:27 PM

NATO without us is literally 17 of those little green plastic army men toys. 

Ed Zachery


step back and say "F" you
NATO isn't helping the USA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2022, 08:37:29 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 23, 2022, 07:37:44 PM

not exactly true. it's longer than 45 years ago, but a bunch of little Vietnamese men in a jungle armed with inferior weapons kicked the United States ass. And the US didn't hold anything back except for nuclear weapons. The US tried and failed to occupy Iraq and Afghanistan and impose puppet governments and they got their asses kicked by literal cavemen goat herders.

Moral of the story: you can't take a country that doesn't want you there in the first place, and that you have no legitimate reason to be there in the first place. US soldiers don't even know what they were fighting for in those wars. Vietnamese, Iraqis, and Afghanis were fighting for their homes and their freedom from a foreign aggressor. That's a dangerous f'ing thing to fight against- and you'll lose every single time. Don't matter how big your d*ck is.

Russia now understands this as well

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 24, 2022, 07:25:56 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 23, 2022, 07:37:44 PM

Moral of the story: you can't take a country that doesn't want you there in the first place, and that you have no legitimate reason to be there in the first place. US soldiers don't even know what they were fighting for in those wars. Vietnamese, Iraqis, and Afghanis were fighting for their homes and their freedom from a foreign aggressor. That's a dangerous f'ing thing to fight against- and you'll lose every single time. Don't matter how big your d*ck is.

Tell me about it. 

Our youngest served two tours in 'stan, and he know wonders why.

The US withdrawal brought the crappy little country right back to where it all started. 20 years of nothing. Lives lost. Trillions spent. Taliban still there, and more well-armed than they ever were thanks to our graciousness. 

For NOTHING.

At least our son came home.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on January 24, 2022, 08:27:35 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 23, 2022, 07:37:44 PM

not exactly true. it's longer than 45 years ago, but a bunch of little Vietnamese men in a jungle armed with inferior weapons kicked the United States ass. And the US didn't hold anything back except for nuclear weapons. The US tried and failed to occupy Iraq and Afghanistan and impose puppet governments and they got their asses kicked by literal cavemen goat herders.

Moral of the story: you can't take a country that doesn't want you there in the first place, and that you have no legitimate reason to be there in the first place. US soldiers don't even know what they were fighting for in those wars. Vietnamese, Iraqis, and Afghanis were fighting for their homes and their freedom from a foreign aggressor. That's a dangerous f'ing thing to fight against- and you'll lose every single time. Don't matter how big your d*ck is.

Very well said. There is a huge difference between taking out another countries armies on the battlefield and occupying a country. We are very good at beating the crap out of those that stand up and fight, but then trying to occupy a country of people that don't want you there is another mission all together.

I supported the first Gulf war and how it ended. We kicked Iraq out of Kuwait, took our toys and went home (for the most part). We didn't try to occupy Kuwait and we didn't try to over throw Iraq. We stated the mission, achieved success and the conflict ended. 

The 2nd Gulf war could have been just as successful had we followed the same script. However, we assumed the mantel that we needed to rebuild Iraq. BS. Had they not started their crap again, we would not have gone it. However, the minute we tried to rebuild and occupy Iraq, the game was over. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 24, 2022, 09:02:59 AM

We need to be done with the nation building business. I hope we are.

Mind our own beeswax. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 24, 2022, 10:49:35 AM

https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC/status/1485415912706613249?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1485415912706613249%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fjengriffinfnc%2Fstatus%2F1485415912706613249%3Fs%3D21

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 24, 2022, 10:56:32 AM

WTF?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 11:23:07 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 23, 2022, 08:03:05 PM

Didn't we just throw wave after wave of 19 year olds at them? 

If someone like North Korea shot a missle that landed close to Seattle (was an actual threat), we'd make South Korea an island and no troops would set foot over there until we cratered the country.


*I know, I know, they share a border with China, so we couldn't just do that, but you know what I mean.

North Korea is a poor 3rd world country with a 3rd rate military. I highly doubt they are a threat to launch a missile that could touch US shores. And they would be wiped off the map if they even tried. Kim Jong-un knows this- he's not stupid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 11:25:03 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 24, 2022, 10:56:32 AM

WTF?

This tells me that a Russian invasion is not likely. If you know Russia was going to invade, you'd send in the military to get US citizens out. They aren't doing that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 11:25:42 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 23, 2022, 08:03:34 PM

When has the swamp ever been dry?  I'll hang up and listen.

it's never been dry, but it's also NEVER been this bad. You can thank the explosion of lobbyists and money infiltrating politics. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 11:27:23 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 23, 2022, 08:34:37 PM

Ed Zachery


step back and say "F" you
NATO isn't helping the USA

NATO is a relic of that past that should be allowed to die. 

Most of the Western European countries are rich, highly developed nations. These are not 3rd world poor countries in Africa. They can pay for and manage their own f**king defense.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 11:29:14 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 24, 2022, 07:25:56 AM

Tell me about it.

Our youngest served two tours in 'stan, and he know wonders why.

The US withdrawal brought the crappy little country right back to where it all started. 20 years of nothing. Lives lost. Trillions spent. Taliban still there, and more well-armed than they ever were thanks to our graciousness.

For NOTHING.

At least our son came home.

That's all that matters. Glad your son is home safe. He's a hero. Anyone that joins the military and serves this country is. As for the politicians and generals which send soldiers into harms way for no obvious justifiable reasons- yeah, they can go f**k themselves.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 24, 2022, 11:32:57 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 11:25:03 AM

This tells me that a Russian invasion is not likely. If you know Russia was going to invade, you'd send in the military to get US citizens out. They aren't doing that.

course there is the additional fact that Biden is an idiot which means anything logical is probably wrong

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 11:36:43 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 24, 2022, 09:02:59 AM

We need to be done with the nation building business. I hope we are.

Mind our own beeswax.

Amen. Nation building is an exercise in futility. Foreign countries DO NOT want us on their soil. End of story. Defeating an enemy in combat is one thing. Invading and occupying entire countries for no justifiable reason is another. 

And rich countries can pay for their own defense. The United States is not the world police. There is video of Trump talking about this in the 80s. He was talking about Western Europe and South Korea and Japan- correctly pointing out that these are all highly wealthy countries that rip off the United States and we continue pay for their defense. He said they should pay for their own defense or that we should bill them and charge them cost plus fees for providing them defense. Dude was f**king right. 

I'd also LOVE to end military aid to rich nations like Israel, which is really just a government welfare program for US based defense contractors. There is more money spent on welfare for corporations and defense contractors than there are on the people. This is insanity.

And Trump was RIGHT to want to repair relations with Russia. This new idiot we have is inflaming tensions with Russia and inching us closer to a war with a country that has a real army and oh only half of the worlds nuclear weapons. Russia is not a bunch of cavemen goat herders in a 3rd world shithole. They can put up a real fight. When is the last time the US fought a war vs someone that could actually fight? World War II. Every war and invasion since then has been vs a bunch of little shithole 3rd world poor countries.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 24, 2022, 11:37:59 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 11:25:03 AM

This tells me that a Russian invasion is not likely. If you know Russia was going to invade, you'd send in the military to get US citizens out. They aren't doing that.

Then why order them out? That's a shitty message to send.

I'm not convinced that the government would get them out.

See: Afghanistan withdrawal.

The world is watching. And laughing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 11:41:14 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 24, 2022, 11:37:59 AM

Then why order them out? That's a shitty message to send.

I'm not convinced that the government would get them out.

See: Afghanistan withdrawal.

The world is watching. And laughing.

why order them out? because we have f**king MORONS running the unelected bureaucracy.

I'd like to point out that US intelligence has infiltrated the mainstream media and the mainstream media are nothing but propaganda for the establishment. If media is saying US intelligence is saying Putin is invading Russia, then take it to the bank it's not happening. These are the same lying pieces of shit that said there was weapons of mass destruction in Iraq (whoops!), that Donald Trump was a Russian agent (LOL), that Assad used chemical weapons on his own people (he didn't), and that Hunter Biden's laptop was Russian intelligence disinformation (it wasn't). Basically a great rule of thumb is to believe the opposite of what these sack of shit idiots say.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on January 24, 2022, 12:23:13 PM

NATO and the EU is the reason why there hasn't been a wholesale land war in Europe since 1945.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on January 24, 2022, 12:42:50 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on January 24, 2022, 12:23:13 PM

NATO and the EU is the reason why there hasn't been a wholesale land war in Europe since 1945.

What did the EU do?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 24, 2022, 12:59:31 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on January 24, 2022, 12:42:50 PM

What did the EU do?

What does NATO do?

Denmark is sending a ship to the Baltic. One ship. They are sending 2 fighter jets. 

Netherlands is sending 4 fighter jets.

France might send jets. Might.

Gee, thanks for the tiny pimple on the elephant's ass.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 24, 2022, 01:03:20 PM

The Czechs hate them some Russia and are actively denouncing them, quite a bit more than the majority of their western neighbors.  They've been sending aid to Ukraine for quite a while now.  They don't have much military might, but they know better than most what an imperialistic Russia looks like and they'll do whatever they can to help prevent it ever happening again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 24, 2022, 01:16:01 PM

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/dhs-warns-russian-cyberattack-us-responds-ukraine-invasion/story?id=82441727

Quote

DHS warns of Russian cyberattack on US if it responds to Ukraine invasion

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 01:17:16 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on January 24, 2022, 12:23:13 PM

NATO and the EU is the reason why there hasn't been a wholesale land war in Europe since 1945.

EU, not seeing any evidence of that. EU wasn't formed until '93. USSR was dead by then. NATO, sure. But that was designed to keep the Soviets at bay. The USSR dissolved in 1991. And with it the threat for war in Europe. 

NATO is a relic of that past that the US should finally kill. It's not worth our money nor our precious American lives. End it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 24, 2022, 01:19:54 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 24, 2022, 01:03:20 PM

The Czechs hate them some Russia and are actively denouncing them, quite a bit more than the majority of their western neighbors.  They've been sending aid to Ukraine for quite a while now.  They don't have much military might, but they know better than most what an imperialistic Russia looks like and they'll do whatever they can to help prevent it ever happening again.

True. No love lost in most of the old bloc nations either. But, what are they gonna do?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 01:22:42 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 24, 2022, 01:03:20 PM

The Czechs hate them some Russia and are actively denouncing them, quite a bit more than the majority of their western neighbors.  They've been sending aid to Ukraine for quite a while now.  They don't have much military might, but they know better than most what an imperialistic Russia looks like and they'll do whatever they can to help prevent it ever happening again.

Where is the evidence that Russia is imperialistic? Newsflash: the US is imperialistic. It is the greatest imperial power on planet earth. Russia is a pimple on a dogs ass. Putin is not some ideologue who wishes to restore the USSR. He's basically a corrupt mafia boss who steals from the state to enrich himself and his family. The dude has stolen hundreds of billions of dollars from the Russian state.

US is imperialistic. Plenty of evidence for that. Don't really see the evidence that Russia is. 

This entire thing is all about NATO pushing for Ukraine to join NATO which would put US missile system on Russia's freaking border. Imagine if a Russian backed military alliance got Mexico to join and put Russian missile system on our border? LMAO. We'd destroy Mexico in 2 seconds flat and kick the Russians out. De-classified documents from US, UK, and French govts prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that President Bush I and secretary of state James Baker promised Gorbachev in '90 that if the Soviets withdrew from East Germany and allowed for the reunification of Germany that NATO would not move one inch eastward. That obviously did not happen.

NATO trying to get Ukraine to join is an act of aggression towards Russia. Period. There is no other way to put it. Putin cannot let that stand. As he shouldn't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 01:24:25 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 24, 2022, 01:19:54 PM

True. No love lost in most of the old bloc nations either. But, what are they gonna do?

you're talking about something that doesn't exist anymore. USSR is dead and gone, has been for 31 years. And it's not coming back. Russia is not the USSR, nor is it a communist country. Putin isn't some communist supreme leader. He's basically a mafia boss who steals from the state to enrich himself and his family and allies. He's probably the richest man in the world or right up there with MbS.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 24, 2022, 01:25:21 PM

DOW down 700 pts

nervous 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 01:30:04 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 24, 2022, 01:25:21 PM

DOW down 700 pts

nervous

it tumbled more than 1,000 last I checked. Must've rebounded a bit. 

President F**kface is the shittiest president in history, of that there is no doubt.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 24, 2022, 01:30:57 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 01:22:42 PM

NATO trying to get Ukraine to join is an act of aggression towards Russia. Period. There is no other way to put it. Putin cannot let that stand. As he shouldn't.

This is exactly Putin's propaganda.  Word for word.  Looks like you're falling for it.   There's no evidence that NATO admission of Ukraine is imminent or even viable.  But Moscow sure wants the world to believe it.

You denounce the American Fourth Estate and at the same time fall for Pravda's incessant blathering.  That's an odd blind spot for you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 24, 2022, 01:33:10 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 01:24:25 PM

you're talking about something that doesn't exist anymore. USSR is dead and gone, has been for 31 years. And it's not coming back. Russia is not the USSR, nor is it a communist country. Putin isn't some communist supreme leader. He's basically a mafia boss who steals from the state to enrich himself and his family and allies. He's probably the richest man in the world or right up there with MbS.

You seem to think that the only way Russia would engage in imperialism, would be because it's a soviet state.  Why?

Throughout history princes and kings and warlords have engaged in imperialism simply to enrich themselves.

Again, this is a weird blind spot for you, and isn't very consistent with the rest of the world view you often profess.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 24, 2022, 01:40:55 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 24, 2022, 11:32:57 AM

course there is the additional fact that Biden is an idiot which means anything logical is probably wrong

You'd prefer the previous guy, whom the generals had to babysit?  
Sit down.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on January 24, 2022, 01:42:21 PM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on January 10, 2022, 11:10:51 AM

As showrunner, I’m going to force a few key creative changes starting with renaming Jason to Ray. That way we can title our show Gen X Ray…get it? The premise being a Gen Xer socially navigating his apartment tower full of constantly online and vaping Millennials and Zoomers.

Episode 4 - Birdwatching:

Gen X Ray Episode 5 - OnlyRay:

Green-haired Kayla vents to Ray and Nikoliss: “I will never forgive OnlyFans for making it OK for everyone to ask me completely unprompted if I post nudes online!” “Who’s asking?” Ray sheepishly asks, kinda hoping Kayla does have OnlyFans. “It’s Jessie down the hall,” Kayla wants Ray’s help convincing Jessie not to go through with hosting an OnlyFans account. But unfortunately for Ray, Jessie, whom he hoped to fail to convince all while getting approval from Kayla for trying, is not a girl – darn those gender neutral names (audience roars)!

It turns out Jessie is none other than washed up teen pop star Lil Smack whose reputation is no longer “lit” enough to even land him weeknight DJ stints at the local nightclubs. “I don’t like moralizing,” Ray promises, “but maybe you’re better off going back to your musical roots rather than do-it-yourself-ing NSFW shoots…in here?” Ray’s eyes then stray to Jessie’s legion of Funko Pops [shameless product placement] taking up bookshelf space. Suddenly, her eyes locking onto Jessie’s Frozen poster, Kayla has a brilliant idea. Next thing they know Jessie, Kayla, Nikoliss, and with Ray as the fat snowman, start “cosplaying” Frozen characters for singing their favorite childhood soundtracks with slightly more mature lyrics for a livestream from Jessie’s otherwise dormant YouTube channel. Episode ceremoniously ends with an inebriated Ray belting “Do you want to do a Keg Stand?” to the tune of “Do you want to build a Snowman?”

Jessie, aka Lil Smack, Apartment #912:


(https://i.imgur.com/2sDqXcJ.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 24, 2022, 01:42:31 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 24, 2022, 01:16:01 PM

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/dhs-warns-russian-cyberattack-us-responds-ukraine-invasion/story?id=82441727

Don't we have hackers and such?  
I'd do a full-scale crippling of all of Russia's and China's computer systems......send them back to 1985 pong-levels of computing.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 01:43:59 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 24, 2022, 01:30:57 PM

This is exactly Putin's propaganda.  Word for word.  Looks like you're falling for it.  There's no evidence that NATO admission of Ukraine is imminent or even viable.  But Moscow sure wants the world to believe it.

You denounce the American Fourth Estate and at the same time fall for Pravda's incessant blathering.  That's an odd blind spot for you.

Yeah, except it isn't propaganda. It's only the f**king truth.

Ukraine applied to begin a NATO Membership Action Plan or MAP as it's called- in 2008. Just so happens that at the 2021 Brussels Summit, NATO reiterated the decision taken at the 2008 Bucharest Summit that Ukraine would eventually become a full fledged member of NATO. NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg went as far to say that Russia will not be able to veto Ukraine's accession to NATO.

Kinda funny how the US backed a coup in Ukraine to install a new government, and then it just so happens that the new puppet government the US helped install amended the Constitution of Ukraine and baked EU membership and NATO membership into law.

You'd have to be a complete fool to think Russia would allow US missile systems to be placed in Ukraine on their border. It's a hard redline in the sand that they won't allow. They'll go to war for that shit. And the US is stupid as f**k to even want to put missile systems and troops on Russian borders. It's making the world more dangerous. Not safer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 24, 2022, 01:45:20 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 01:43:59 PM

And the US is stupid as f**k to even want to put missile systems and troops on Russian borders. It's make the world more dangerous. Not safer.

Well I'll certainly agree with you on that.

And it's not going to happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 24, 2022, 01:46:46 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 24, 2022, 01:40:55 PM

You'd prefer the previous guy, whom the generals had to babysit? 
Sit down.

I don't believe this would be happening right now, honestly.

I'd prefer Reagan, but... Maybe a dead Reagan??

A weekend at Ronnie's would be fun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 01:46:52 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 24, 2022, 01:45:20 PM

Well I'll certainly agree with you on that.

And it's not going to happen.

then why did the US back a Ukrainian coup in 2014 and install a new gov't that amended the Ukrainian constitution to bake into law NATO/EU membership?

The US is an imperial aggressor, in case you haven't noticed. Don't see that much evidence that Russia is. They are babies compared to our shit.

I certainly hope you are right.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 24, 2022, 01:48:01 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 24, 2022, 01:45:20 PM

Well I'll certainly agree with you on that.

And it's not going to happen.

Correct. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 01:48:05 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 24, 2022, 01:40:55 PM

You'd prefer the previous guy, whom the generals had to babysit? 
Sit down.

yes, I VASTLY prefer the previous guy.

The generals didn't babysit him, they lied to him. Which is just astounding. In case you haven't noticed, the unelected generals and "intelligence" services are part of the problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 24, 2022, 01:49:57 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 01:46:52 PM

then why did the US back a Ukrainian coup in 2014 and install a new gov't that amended the Ukrainian constitution to bake into law NATO/EU membership?

The US is an imperial aggressor, in case you haven't noticed. Don't see that much evidence that Russia is. They are babies compared to our shit.

Laughing my goddamn motherfucking ass off at this.

Tell Crimea and Belarus that Russia is neither an aggressor nor an imperialistic nation.

And if we're so hell-bent on putting missiles and troops on Russia's borders, why aren't NATO members Estonia and Latvia already ground zero for WW3?

A Russian invasion of Ukraine doesn't reduce the number of NATO countries that directly border Russian territory-- it triples it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 24, 2022, 01:54:53 PM

Look, I'm not saying I support US involvement in this case.  I really don't.

I'm just saying that defense of Russia's point of view is laughable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 24, 2022, 02:02:26 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 24, 2022, 01:49:57 PM

Laughing my goddamn motherfucking ass off at this.

Tell Crimea and Belarus that Russia is neither an aggressor nor an imperialistic nation.

And if we're so hell-bent on putting missiles and troops on Russia's borders, why aren't NATO members Estonia and Latvia already ground zero for WW3?

exactly. since 1999, the following nations have joined nato: poland, czech, hungary, bulgaria, eastonia, latvia, lithuania, romania, slovakia, slovenia, albania, croatia, montenegro, north macedonia.

and until 2014, when russia invaded ukraine and took crimea, the us had not put any troops in any of those nations. and the only thing they did after 2014 is provide minimal troops for training, and only did so at the request of those nations.

if the us wanted to put nukes or other weapons on russia's doorstep, they already have the means to do so via virtually any/all of the nations mentioned above. they haven't because they aren't morons hell bent on antagonizing and starting a war.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 02:03:48 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 24, 2022, 01:54:53 PM

Look, I'm not saying I support US involvement in this case.  I really don't.

I'm just saying that defense of Russia's point of view is laughable.

And I disagree.

US explicitly promised Gorbachev that NATO would not expand one inch eastward if USSR withdrew from East Germany and allowed for the reunification of Germany. This is a matter of fact and record. Declassified documents by the US, UK, and French governments prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt. It was promised to Gorbachev that NATO would NOT expand one inch eastward. Gorbachev had every reason NOT to allow for the reunification of Germany- Germany did after all invade Russia and kill MILLIONS of it's people. Twice. In the last 75 years alone at that point. That's only 1 person away. Germany invaded Russia. Twice. Not the other way around. It wasn't Russia that invaded and devastated Germany twice. You think people in Russia just forgot about that? No, they didn't. They remember Germany invading twice (WWI and WWII) and killing millions of Russians. But Gorbachev believed the assurances he received and allowed for the reunification of Germany to happen. And what did he get for being a fool and taking the US gov'ts word? Continued NATO expansion on Russian's borders- as you mentioned with Latvia and Estonia. Ukraine joining NATO would be the last straw that breaks the camels back.

You can bring up Crimea and Belarus. Crimea by the way was historically part of Russia- it was gifted to Ukraine by Khrushchev in the late 1950's- it's 90% native Russian language speakers and 70% ethnic Russian- and oh yeah by the way Sevastopol Naval Base happens to be of the utmost strategic importance to Russia. And as I said- that is freaking childs play compared to what US imperialism has done in just the last 20 years alone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on January 24, 2022, 02:53:30 PM

I should have also included the EU's predecessors, the European Common Market (and other predecessors), all of which were organized while the US was bankrolling the reconstruction of western Europe post-WWII.

http://www.finfacts.ie/Irish_finance_news/articleDetail.php?EU-at-60---the-longest-period-of-peace-in-Europe-in-over-2-000-years-775

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Paris_(1951)

NATO and a large US Army presence on the continent meant that each of the countries involved didn't need much of a standing army and could focus on building their economies instead of throwing their armies against each other at the drop of a hat, as had happened with distrubing regularity over the past 300 years.

https://youtu.be/iNAxfWCwDsw

As for the reunification of Germany, Maggie Thatcher seemed content to let the two Germanies stay apart even after the fall of the Berlin Wall. Helmut Kohl seemed like he single-handedly dragged the whole project to the finish.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 24, 2022, 03:25:47 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 24, 2022, 01:40:55 PM

You'd prefer the previous guy, whom the generals had to babysit? 
Sit down.

If the previous guy was still our President Russia wouldnt be pulling this shit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on January 24, 2022, 04:06:49 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 22, 2022, 11:47:30 AM

70s here all week.  Been getting down into the 40s overnight. 

Winter is rough.

Hey, mid 40s for a 730a tee time is rough. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on January 24, 2022, 04:23:38 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 02:03:48 PM

You can bring up Crimea and Belarus. Crimea by the way was historically part of Russia- it was gifted to Ukraine by Khrushchev in the late 1950's- it's 90% native Russian language speakers and 70% ethnic Russian- 

And so spoke Hitler about the Sudetenland before getting Chamberlain to hand it over to him. And just a precursor to further expansion. 

Parallel?  Who knows, but Putin is not to be trusted. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on January 24, 2022, 05:07:02 PM

Putin would be doing this even if the entire Warsaw Pact was part of modern Russia.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 05:08:13 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on January 24, 2022, 04:23:38 PM

And so spoke Hitler about the Sudetenland before getting Chamberlain to hand it over to him. And just a precursor to further expansion.

Parallel?  Who knows, but Putin is not to be trusted.

Lol. Putin is hardly comparable to Hitler. Different situations.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 24, 2022, 05:18:03 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 05:08:13 PM

Lol. Putin is hardly comparable to Hitler. Different situations.

We can agree he’a a pretty murderous authoritarian scum bag, right? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 06:22:04 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 24, 2022, 05:18:03 PM

We can agree he’a a pretty murderous authoritarian scum bag, right?

Absolutely. Said it in here many times, he's basically a mafia boss running a mafia state, and he's a ruthless murderous scumbag who rips off his own country to the tune of countless billions of dollars. That's a far cry from Hitler.

He isn't trying to take over all of Europe and exterminate every single Jewish person, Gypsy person, and mentally or physically disabled person in Europe however. There is a special place in the deepest bowels of hell for a complete psychopath like Hitler. Really amazes me that he was able to take over Germany and get an entire country to go along with genocide. Blows my f**king mind actually. People shouldn't be compared to him willy nilly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 24, 2022, 06:29:48 PM

Putin's a scumbag but that's what he says about countries that fund inner city drug cultures not only needles but apartments.And opens it borders to any thug like or worse than himself to sashay right in

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 07:00:41 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on January 24, 2022, 02:53:30 PM

NATO and a large US Army presence on the continent meant that each of the countries involved didn't need much of a standing army and could focus on building their economies instead of throwing their armies against each other at the drop of a hat, as had happened with distrubing regularity over the past 300 years.

Yeah, why stand up and unite and defend yourselves when you can just let the Americans pay for your defense? Bunch of mooching pussy Eurotrash bastards. European NATO countries spent $50 billion more on defense collectively in 2020 than they did in 2016. Can't convince me otherwise that Trump going in there and talking shit and calling them out and pressing European leaders was not the cause of that. These are rich countries that can stand on their own. Time to let them do so and stop wasting US treasure and blood. France basically left NATO in 1966 and didn't fully re-join until 2009 when Sarkozy returned France to full participation. No reason the US can't just leave too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 24, 2022, 07:39:39 PM

If Europe was the hapless, "mooching pussies," then we were the willing dick.  Expand our military industrial complex worldwide?  Yes please!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 08:01:51 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 24, 2022, 07:39:39 PM

If Europe was the hapless, "mooching pussies," then we were the willing dick.  Expand our military industrial complex worldwide?  Yes please!!!

Unfortunately, there is a lot of truth in this. "Defense" has cost the US taxpayer ungodly sums of money, hurled this country further and further into debt, and has maimed or killed thousands of brave American soldiers- and it's basically just a racket to give welfare to a bunch of massive publicly traded defense conglomerates and smaller large to medium sized private corporations.

How did bombing Libya into the Stone Age and overthrowing Gaddafi and turning Libya into a failed state to the point where slavery now exists help "defend" the US? How did invading Iraq in 2003, completely destroying that entire country, toppling Saddam and trying to install a puppet government help "defend" the US? How did a covert CIA operation called Timber Sycamore which was an operation that kicked a civil war into high gear and was an attempt at toppling Bashar al-Assad in Syria- help "defend" the US? Fun little fact- the people the CIA was funding and arming during Operation Timber Sycamore were basically al-Qaeda/ISIS off-shoots- how in the world did that help "defend" the US? How did invading and occupying Afghanistan for 20 f**king years help "defend" the US? It didn't. How does continually drone bombing the shit out of 9 countries right now "defend" the US? It doesn't.

None of it makes any sense. Burn it all to the ground. Destroy the CIA, FBI, and NSA into a million tiny little pieces and start over. Cut all military aid to foreign countries. Withdrawal from NATO. Make it illegal for former US intelligence and military to get jobs as lobbyists and as news media contributors. I cringe and my blood boils every-time I see John Brennan or James Clapper on MSNBC or CNN. These people should be in jail, not getting paid fat contracts to be on tv. There's a lot of shit we can do to change things. The people nor the politicians have the will to change it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 24, 2022, 08:46:56 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 24, 2022, 07:39:39 PM

If Europe was the hapless, "mooching pussies," then we were the willing dick.  Expand our military industrial complex worldwide?  Yes please!!!

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 08:01:51 PM

Unfortunately, there is a lot of truth in this. "Defense" has cost the US taxpayer ungodly sums of money, hurled this country further and further into debt, and has maimed or killed thousands of brave American soldiers

YUP this fucking government making slimeballs like Dick Cheney,even richer.I hope there is a hell just so these peddlers of unrest get theirs.Cheney/Bush can be joined by Biden/Pelosii in the elevator on the way down.If i go on it would stretch like War & Peace - ironically

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 24, 2022, 08:53:21 PM

Dow finished with a slight gain after being down by a thousand

so somebody must have found some good news some place

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 09:05:12 PM

Biden calls a reporter a dumb son of a bitch for asking a question about inflation. Over-reaction much? Is the 80 year old dementia patient off his meds?

Funny how you don't see wall to wall coverage 24/7 on MSNBC and CNN or a million articles in Washington Post and New York Times how he's vile, crass, and mean to reporters and is disrupting norms and just an all-around bad guy for being hostile to tv reporters. I call them tv reporters because they are not real reporters. They are more like actors.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 09:40:06 PM

this is a great video, explaining a very complex issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNtO8NH_qmw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 25, 2022, 12:42:52 AM

I know there's a set of people in Ukraine who would prefer to be in Russia.  Does it make too much sense to re-draw the border a bit and have Russia buy the land? 
Win-win?
Outrageous!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on January 25, 2022, 12:58:51 AM

The Ukraine is weak, feeble, I'm going to put the hurt on the Ukraine. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 25, 2022, 04:41:35 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 25, 2022, 12:42:52 AM

I know there's a set of people in Ukraine who would prefer to be in Russia. Does it make too much sense to re-draw the border a bit and have Russia buy the land? 
Win-win?
Outrageous!!

it's an odd situation. Both peoples trace their origin to Kievan Rus' - all the way back in the 9th century. They have a common history, for sure. Ukrainians are basically Diet Russian. Or Russian Lite if you will. Extremely similar language, same majority Eastern Orthodox religion, similar architecture, customs, culture, food, etc.. They are far more similar than they are different. And that makes sense, as for like 300+ years Ukraine was part of the Russian Empire and then the USSR. It's only been the last 30 years or so that they've even been, you know, a country.

former US Senator Bill Bradley broke this whole NATO/Russia issue down beautifully all the way back in 2008. Dude basically called what's going on now and why expansion of NATO would lead to what we're seeing now. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-alxZvUCS8

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 07:42:20 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 09:05:12 PM

Biden calls a reporter a dumb son of a bitch for asking a question about inflation. Over-reaction much? Is the 80 year old dementia patient off his meds?

Funny how you don't see wall to wall coverage 24/7 on MSNBC and CNN or a million articles in Washington Post and New York Times how he's vile, crass, and mean to reporters and is disrupting norms and just an all-around bad guy for being hostile to tv reporters. I call them tv reporters because they are not real reporters. They are more like actors.

"I’m not joking when I say this: If you’re ever working with me and I hear you treat another colleague with disrespect or talk down to someone, I promise you, I will fire you on the spot — on the spot. No ifs ands or buts. Everybody is entitled to be treated with decency and dignity."

- Joe Biden, January 2021



We're waiting....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 07:50:58 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 24, 2022, 09:05:12 PM

Biden calls a reporter a dumb son of a bitch for asking a question about inflation. Over-reaction much? Is the 80 year old dementia patient off his meds?

Funny how you don't see wall to wall coverage 24/7 on MSNBC and CNN or a million articles in Washington Post and New York Times how he's vile, crass, and mean to reporters and is disrupting norms and just an all-around bad guy for being hostile to tv reporters. I call them tv reporters because they are not real reporters. They are more like actors.

Biden is actually pretty funny. Who would've thought?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 25, 2022, 07:52:28 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 07:50:58 AM

Biden is actually pretty funny. Who would've thought?

He is more sad than funny. Dude is basically retarded. His brain is literally fried.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 07:53:51 AM

I don't find any humor in this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 25, 2022, 07:56:25 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 07:50:58 AM

Biden is actually pretty funny. Who would've thought?

Our Vegetable in Chief is not funny.  Sad and scary, but coming from you, the same guy who said there is not a crime problem growing, I expect that take. 
 
even though I could not possibly have voted for him, I did hope that his campaign partially built on unifying the country, had some merit to it. But alas he’s done exactly the opposite ruling with a small majority on a search and destroy type of platform, and virtually labeling anyone that opposes of you as a terrorist.  

what a fucking moron.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 07:58:59 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 25, 2022, 07:52:28 AM

He is more sad than funny. Dude is basically retarded. His brain is literally fried.

Are you saying he needs the brain test they put on Trump? Person Woman Man Camera TV. 

My biggest disappointment with Trump was that he turned out to be kind of stupid - he could've been the funniest president, but he was just sort of mean. Biden, OTOH, kind of funny. Need more of that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 25, 2022, 08:03:04 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 07:58:59 AM

Are you saying he needs the brain test they put on Trump? Person Woman Man Camera TV.

My biggest disappointment with Trump was that he turned out to be kind of stupid - he could've been the funniest president, but he was just sort of mean. Biden, OTOH, kind of funny. Need more of that.

That’s all you have? Comparing one moron to the other?

as the polls clearly indicate we need less of Biden and his charade of being in charge. Everything he’s touched has turned to shit. 

But I expect that from you, wanting more rampant crime, rampant inflation, skyrocketing energy prices, open borders, foreign policy blunder after blunder and a completely polarized nation.  Great Job. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 08:05:41 AM

Back to the Russia situation.

Seems kinda quiet today.

I have been trying to think about what Germany might do in all of this, given their relationship with Putin and his natural gas supply. Seems to me they are backed into a corner. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 25, 2022, 08:06:59 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 07:58:59 AM

Are you saying he needs the brain test they put on Trump? Person Woman Man Camera TV.

My biggest disappointment with Trump was that he turned out to be kind of stupid - he could've been the funniest president, but he was just sort of mean. Biden, OTOH, kind of funny. Need more of that.

What world do you live in? I’d like to move there. Unfortunately I’m stuck in reality. 

Trump was legit hilarious. Some of the shit that guy tweeted and said- comedic gold. Like when he was asked in a debate if he’s called women pigs and slobs, he goes…just one…Rosie O’Donnell….f***king dead. Or when he brought all of Bill Clinton’s former accusers and sat them in the audience at a debate vs Hillary and they asked him about the grab em by the psssy tape and with all Slick Willy’s former accusers right there in the front row he goes- those were words, just locker room talk, not actions- Bill Clinton far worse- mine were words, his were actions…with Hillary right next to him and all Slick Willy’s accusers in the front…LMFAO. I lost my damn shit when that happened. Dude was the ultimate troll.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 25, 2022, 08:15:05 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 07:58:59 AM

Are you saying he needs the brain test they put on Trump? Person Woman Man Camera TV.

My biggest disappointment with Trump was that he turned out to be kind of stupid - he could've been the funniest president, but he was just sort of mean. Biden, OTOH, kind of funny. Need more of that.

Sam will it be funny when the punks/thugs that loot trains/trucks bringing in EVERYTHING into population centers stop running? Then look around and see your house and know they have carte blanche & won't get prosecuted because of defunding the Police or WOKE says it's OK. Your fucking laws won't matter anymore. Is it funny when CHAOS comes to you and yours? Ya I'm in stictches over here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 08:16:14 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 25, 2022, 08:03:04 AM

That’s all you have? Comparing one moron to the other?

as the polls clearly indicate we need less of Biden and his charade of being in charge. Everything he’s touched has turned to shit. 

But I expect that from you, wanting more rampant crime, rampant inflation, skyrocketing energy prices, open borders, foreign policy blunder after blunder and a completely polarized nation.  Great Job. 

Economy has shot back up, unemployment at record low. Carry on bemoaning everything, but the country is in pretty fine shape. The biggest problem I see is the lack of immigration, which is a big problem when it comes to inflation. I wish Biden would make the case for immigration instead of just ignoring it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 25, 2022, 08:16:53 AM

https://conservativefiringline.com/nbcs-chuck-todd-biden-no-longer-seen-as-competent/


His own paid mouthpieces have even turned on him.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 08:17:25 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 25, 2022, 08:06:59 AM

What world do you live in? I’d like to move there. Unfortunately I’m stuck in reality.

Trump was legit hilarious. Some of the shit that guy tweeted and said- comedic gold. Like when he was asked in a debate if he’s called women pigs and slobs, he goes…just one…Rosie O’Donnell….f***king dead. Or when he brought all of Bill Clinton’s former accusers and sat them in the audience at a debate vs Hillary and they asked him about the grab em by the psssy tape and with all Slick Willy’s former accusers right there in the front row he goes- those were words, just locker room talk, not actions- Bill Clinton far worse- mine were words, his were actions…with Hillary right next to him and all Slick Willy’s accusers in the front…LMFAO. I lost my damn shit when that happened. Dude was the ultimate troll.

He was a great troll, but he also wasn't very quick or clever on the fly. He was guaranteed to just be mean, which I don't find very funny. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 25, 2022, 08:18:48 AM

Stay on topic that asshole is gone,careful what you encourage - your kids lives may count on it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 08:18:59 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 25, 2022, 08:15:05 AM

Sam will it be funny when the punks/thugs that loot trains/trucks bringing in EVERYTHING into population centers stop running? Then look around and see your house and know they have carte blanche & won't get prosecuted because of defunding the Police or WOKE says it's OK. Your fucking laws won't matter anymore. Is it funny when CHAOS comes to you and yours? Ya I'm in stictches over here

Buddy you can right now order some booze and toilet paper and a deep dish pizza and get it delivered to your house. Biden's America.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 25, 2022, 08:20:47 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 08:16:14 AM

Economy has shot back up, unemployment at record low. Carry on bemoaning everything, but the country is in pretty fine shape. The biggest problem I see is the lack of immigration, which is a big problem when it comes to inflation. I wish Biden would make the case for immigration instead of just ignoring it.

Omg.  Employment?  10 million jobs that can’t be filled? Small business reducing hours or folding completely because there’s nobody to hire.

inflation significantly outpacing wages? 

dude put away your pom-poms which are clearly blinding you to reality.

I know it makes you feel good in your heart that the Boston marathon bomber is allowed to vote and got enough money from stimulus checks to buy expensive Christmas presents for his family, but you have to understand there’s a lot of people who don’t feel good about that.

As for the people being raped carjacked and murdered in our big cities at world record pace, I’m guessing they’re not thinking things are going to swimmingly like you think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 08:22:34 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 08:18:59 AM

Buddy you can right now order some booze and toilet paper and a deep dish pizza and get it delivered to your house. Biden's America.

Bezos' America is more like it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 08:23:45 AM

Let's talk about Russia.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 25, 2022, 08:27:23 AM

To a high degree I think MDOT nailed  it yesterday. 

Neither Russia or Ukraine gives a damn about us nor has any real interest to us and there’s really no good reason to get involved.

Both parties, ( Dems and GOP)talking about the integrity of their border should be smacked in the face for ignoring our borders.

In the meantime, the real winner of this tension is obviously China.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 25, 2022, 08:35:09 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 08:18:59 AM

Buddy you can right now order some booze and toilet paper and a deep dish pizza and get it delivered to your house. Biden's America.

That's the best you have? Pizza's have damn near tripled in price. Vagrants are piling across the border and you think telling them it's FUNNY about the President? ya it is,they've done nothing and are reaping a windfall. Sam I SINCERELY hope you're not representing one of them when the rest of the flock comes thru your side door

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 08:35:54 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 25, 2022, 08:27:23 AM

To a high degree I think MDOT nailed  it yesterday. 

Neither Russia or Ukraine gives a damn about us nor has any real interest to us and there’s really no good reason to get involved.

Both parties, ( Dems and GOP)talking about the integrity of their border should be smacked in the face for ignoring our borders.

In the meantime, the real winner of this tension is obviously China.

I think the same. North Korea too, and Iran. They are watching.

Frankly I'm more concerned about Taiwan than I am the Ukraine. We have a lot more relationships with Taiwan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 08:38:58 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 25, 2022, 08:20:47 AM

Omg.  Employment?  19 million jobs that can’t be filled? Small business reducing hours or folding completely because there’s nobody to hire.

inflation significantly outpacing wages? 

dude put away your pom-poms which are clearly blinding you to reality.

I know it makes you feel good in your heart that the Boston marathon bomber is allowed to vote and got enough money from stimulus checks to buy expensive Christmas presents for his family, but you have to understand there’s a lot of people who don’t feel good about that.

As for the people being raped carjacked and murdered in our big cities at world record pace, I’m guessing they’re not thinking things are going to swimmingly like you think.

Well, like I said, the lack of people to hire and inflation due to rising wages is directly due to drawing down immigration over the past few years. It's what Trump ran on, and Biden didn't run on it but he hasn't done much positive about it. Instead, he gets sucked into this stupid open borders/illegals nonsense which is directly causing the things you want to bemoan.

Further, I'm not seeing it. Homicides are up. Overall crime hasn't gone up that I've seen, at least not in Columbus. Can't speak for everywhere. What happens when you flood populations with guns and social media makes it very easy to get in fights? Nothing great.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 08:40:00 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 25, 2022, 08:35:09 AM

That's the best you have? Pizza's have damn near tripled in price. Vagrants are piling across the border and you think telling them it's FUNNY about the President? ya it is,they've done nothing and are reaping a windfall. Sam I SINCERELY hope you're not representing one of them when the rest of the flock comes thru your side door

I hope they let the vagrants work and thereby lower the cost of pizza

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 08:41:04 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 08:23:45 AM

Let's talk about Russia.

I will be profoundly disappointed if we end one stupid forever war just to start another. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 25, 2022, 08:46:03 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 08:40:00 AM

I hope they let the vagrants work and thereby lower the cost of pizza

They're looking for help everywhere - develop some skills. But why should anyone go to work when Governments handouts are encouraging sloth?it's the supply chain getting interrupted by your clientele .It' FUNNY right ,it's funny when someone else's neighbor hood is getting ripped apart

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 25, 2022, 08:47:32 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 08:41:04 AM

I will be profoundly disappointed if we end one stupid forever war just to start another.

Yup good to see you don't find that FUNNY i agree

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on January 25, 2022, 08:49:37 AM

Since 2014 no one has done more to justify NATO than Putin.  Putin has said publicly that he intends to rebuild the Soviet Union and until 2014 few took that talk seriously.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 25, 2022, 08:53:55 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 08:41:04 AM

I will be profoundly disappointed if we end one stupid forever war just to start another.

Amen, brutha.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 25, 2022, 08:54:57 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 08:38:58 AM

Well, like I said, the lack of people to hire and inflation due to rising wages is directly due to drawing down immigration over the past few years. It's what Trump ran on, and Biden didn't run on it but he hasn't done much positive about it. Instead, he gets sucked into this stupid open borders/illegals nonsense which is directly causing the things you want to bemoan.

Further, I'm not seeing it. Homicides are up. Overall crime hasn't gone up that I've seen, at least not in Columbus. Can't speak for everywhere. What happens when you flood populations with guns and social media makes it very easy to get in fights? Nothing great.

Hard to have a conversation with somebody who is either completely ignoring the facts or making them up as they go along. You think inflation is being caused by rising wages?

You need to look at Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Washington DC, and virtually every large city to see that murder is up, carjackings are up, assaults are up, the list is endless. You can ignore it Sam but that doesn’t mean it isn’t there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 25, 2022, 08:55:21 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 08:05:41 AM

Back to the Russia situation.

Seems kinda quiet today.

I have been trying to think about what Germany might do in all of this, given their relationship with Putin and his natural gas supply. Seems to me they are backed into a corner.

Germany's got themselves stuck between a rock and a hard place.  They've turned out to be pretty toothless after all.

Which, after so many decades of reunification fears among the other countries in Europe, might not be the worst thing in the world.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 25, 2022, 08:55:50 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 25, 2022, 08:53:55 AM

Amen, brutha.

This. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 09:06:40 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 25, 2022, 08:54:57 AM

Hard to have a conversation with somebody who is either completely ignoring the facts or making them up as they go along. You think inflation is being caused by rising wages?

You need to look at Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Washington DC, and virtually every large city to see that murder is up, carjackings are up, assaults are up, the list is endless. You can ignore it Sam but that doesn’t mean it isn’t there

Inflation is caused by a few things - certainly wildly increased demand accounts for some, but that is likely to slow down. The things you mentioned are related to a labor shortage. How can you complain about a labor shortage and not want to increase immigration? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 25, 2022, 09:21:01 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 09:06:40 AM

Inflation is caused by a few things - certainly wildly increased demand accounts for some, but that is likely to slow down. The things you mentioned are related to a labor shortage. How can you complain about a labor shortage and not want to increase immigration?

There’s a lot of things I am very stupid about. I wouldn’t try to argue with you over a matters of law as I understand you are an attorney.

My undergraduate degree and graduate degree are in economics and finance so I’m pretty well tuned in to what things can and do cause inflation.

and I have never said, not now or ever, that I am against immigration.

what I am against is massive overrun of our borders by illegal immigrants, and thinly veiled government support to move them around the country and support them financially with things like education and healthcare as well as voting rights.  That infusion of taxpayer money is unconstitutional, misused, and a supremely strong contributor to inflation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 25, 2022, 09:24:15 AM

https://twitter.com/DrPippaM/status/1484777969822412804?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1484777969822412804%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdrpippam%2Fstatus%2F1484777969822412804%3Fs%3D21

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 09:33:02 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 09:06:40 AM

Inflation is caused by a few things - certainly wildly increased demand accounts for some, but that is likely to slow down. The things you mentioned are related to a labor shortage. How can you complain about a labor shortage and not want to increase immigration?

Those are two different things. We need SKILLED labor.

There are too many open jobs in manufacturing to count. A degree in art history doesn't qualify one for those jobs. A degree in art history will get you a job sitting in your mom's basement all day.

We need less of those degrees, and more vocational degrees/certificates/programs and internships.

Problem solved. Too bad our society is generally too lazy to make it happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 09:42:14 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 25, 2022, 09:24:15 AM

https://twitter.com/DrPippaM/status/1484777969822412804?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1484777969822412804%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdrpippam%2Fstatus%2F1484777969822412804%3Fs%3D21

This was going to be my next subject. Putin already has Belarus in his pocket, and land access to this little Russian enclave would be of great strategic benefit to him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 25, 2022, 09:54:07 AM

https://www.foxnews.com/media/nigel-farage-russia-ukraine-biden-afghanistan-exit

One point of view from the Other side of the pond.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 25, 2022, 10:06:51 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 25, 2022, 08:55:21 AM

Germany's got themselves stuck between a rock and a hard place.  They've turned out to be pretty toothless after all.

Which, after so many decades of reunification fears among the other countries in Europe, might not be the worst thing in the world.

they're toothless because they've tied their energy supply to russian gas. russian supply of gas was almost triple any other supplier to germany and that was before the new pipeline agreement that was announced last year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 25, 2022, 10:16:06 AM

I'm not sure that's toothless,acting in their own interests.Maybe our government should stop acting in interests of Defense Contractors - just a big of POS's as Putin

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 25, 2022, 10:16:50 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 25, 2022, 08:16:53 AM

https://conservativefiringline.com/nbcs-chuck-todd-biden-no-longer-seen-as-competent/


His own paid mouthpieces have even turned on him. 

If that little sack of shit weasel Democrat propagandist Chuck Todd is coming out against him….wow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 25, 2022, 10:30:12 AM

Quote from: rolltidefan on January 25, 2022, 10:06:51 AM

they're toothless because they've tied their energy supply to russian gas. russian supply of gas was almost triple any other supplier to germany and that was before the new pipeline agreement that was announced last year.

Well yes, of course.  Getting a huge percentage of their oil and gas from Russia wasn't their only option, it was just the cheapest and most expedient. Consequently, they're not going to fight their new best frenemy Russia.  But they're also not likely to act as a puppet for Russia and go against their EU and NATO allies in Europe.

So, toothless.

Which is right where many of their European neighbors would prefer to have them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 25, 2022, 10:32:52 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 25, 2022, 10:16:06 AM

I'm not sure that's toothless,acting in their own interests.Maybe our government should stop acting in interests of Defense Contractors - just a big of POS's as Putin

no, it's not, but it does explain why they are acting toothless with regards to russia right now. they have a lot to risk in this and are trying to play both sides. having to acquiesce to something you really don't want comes with the territory when you tie a significant part of your energy and economy to another country who is, at best, tenuously friendly.

same situation us and rest of world are with china/sea countries and manufacturing.

whole heartedly agree with needing to stop acting in interest of defense contractors. not sure this falls in line with that, though, as we aren't committing those resources to it. yet anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 10:34:52 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 25, 2022, 09:21:01 AM

There’s a lot of things I am very stupid about. I wouldn’t try to argue with you over a matters of law as I understand you are an attorney.

My undergraduate degree and graduate degree are in economics and finance so I’m pretty well tuned in to what things can and do cause inflation.

and I have never said, not now or ever, that I am against immigration.

what I am against is massive overrun of our borders by illegal immigrants, and thinly veiled government support to move them around the country and support them financially with things like education and healthcare as well as voting rights.  That infusion of taxpayer money is unconstitutional, misused, and a supremely strong contributor to inflation.

I'm not calling you stupid I'm saying when we have a labor shortage we need more people to work, and that means immigrants. And there is a big supply of immigrants who want to come here and work. It's a pretty easy solution, but literally no one in politics is pushing for it, I imagine because they don't want to be unpopular. Legal immigration has declined over the last five years - that we have labor shortages should be of no surprise to anyone. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 10:36:42 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 09:33:02 AM

Those are two different things. We need SKILLED labor.

There are too many open jobs in manufacturing to count. A degree in art history doesn't qualify one for those jobs. A degree in art history will get you a job sitting in your mom's basement all day.

We need less of those degrees, and more vocational degrees/certificates/programs and internships.

Problem solved. Too bad our society is generally too lazy to make it happen.

We need skilled and unskilled labor. Restaurants are having as hard time hiring people as anyone else. Further, immigrants are much more likely to be harder working and do labor intensive jobs, which is why we need them. Biden should be putting out a help wanted sign, not fooling around trying to shut down the border.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 25, 2022, 10:44:46 AM

Quote from: rolltidefan on January 25, 2022, 10:32:52 AM

no, it's not, but it does explain why they are acting toothless with regards to russia right now. they have a lot to risk in this and are trying to play both sides. having to acquiesce to something you really don't want comes with the territory when you tie a significant part of your energy and economy to another country who is, at best, tenuously friendly.

same situation us and rest of world are with china/sea countries and manufacturing.

whole heartedly agree with needing to stop acting in interest of defense contractors. not sure this falls in line with that, though, as we aren't committing those resources to it. yet anyway.

The thing is the iron curtain fell,NATO is a propped up puppet that we shouldn't be funding.A couple pages back Mdot pointed out agreements made decades ago.Let them sort their own messes out.We can't get the board out of or own eye to help the neighbor with the spec in his

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 11:09:34 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 10:36:42 AM

We need skilled and unskilled labor. Restaurants are having as hard time hiring people as anyone else. Further, immigrants are much more likely to be harder working and do labor intensive jobs, which is why we need them. Biden should be putting out a help wanted sign, not fooling around trying to shut down the border.

No.

We just need to get the lazy asses sitting at home to go to work.

One can be a line cook with an art history degree, and actually make a career of it, with good wages.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 11:15:40 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 11:09:34 AM

No.

We just need to get the lazy asses sitting at home to go to work.

One can be a line cook with an art history degree, and actually make a career of it, with good wages.

They don't want to be a line cook. They want to learn about art history. If they can make that work for them, God bless. In the meantime, let the people who will travel hundreds of miles to be line cooks be line cooks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 11:37:33 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 11:15:40 AM

They don't want to be a line cook. They want to learn about art history don't want to do anything. If they can make that work for them, God bless. They can't make that work for them. So what do you do with them? In the meantime, let the people who will travel hundreds of miles to be line cooks be line cooks.

Again, hard no.

Policy needs some rethinking. People need to work to earn a living. The American Way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 11:43:29 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 11:37:33 AM

Again, hard no.

Policy needs some rethinking. People need to work to earn a living. The American Way.

The whole history of this nation is wrapped up in immigrants coming here and working their asses off. That is the American Way. Hoping that people with art history degrees will see the light and quit their jobs or stop taking care of their kids to go be line cooks seems pretty hopeless.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 11:51:20 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 11:43:29 AM

The whole history of this nation is wrapped up in immigrants coming here and working their asses off. That is the American Way. Hoping that people with art history degrees will see the light and quit their jobs or stop taking care of their kids to go be line cooks seems pretty hopeless.

Yeah. That great dream stopped around the time the Great Depression happened.

(https://i.imgur.com/ISv0CRz.png)

Those people came and they worked in factories, stores, etc., and they had kids who did the same thing.

What's happened since has been a nightmare, on many fronts. We have a lot of kids who don't want to do anything, and this is all enabled.

Again, we need to rethink all of this. The American Dream is not what it used to be. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 11:56:22 AM

Quote

Yeah. That great dream stopped around the time the Great Depression happened.

Yeah! Well, it didn't stop, but America wasn't a great destination for immigrants during the depression. Similarly, immigration slowed considerably during the Great Recession. It is a GOOD thing when immigrants want to come to your country to work. It creates economic opportunities and fills labor shortages. There's no rethinking necessary - the economy is trying to expand but our government regulations are impeding it. That song and dance is so tired it got put on the bottom of the juke box, yet here we are. It would be one thing if there was some real debate over this in the government. Unfortunately, people seem pretty united against expanding immigration so we are stuck with unfilled jobs and eventually closing businesses.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on January 25, 2022, 11:59:11 AM

Quote from: MarqHusker on January 25, 2022, 12:58:51 AM

The Ukraine is weak, feeble, I'm going to put the hurt on the Ukraine.

Seinfeld

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 12:23:29 PM

This is kinda scary.

US believes Russia may soon launch cyberattacks against critical American infrastructure: source | Fox Business (https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/cisa-warning-russia-cyberattack-ukraine)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 25, 2022, 12:47:08 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 12:23:29 PM

This is kinda scary.

US believes Russia may soon launch cyberattacks against critical American infrastructure: source | Fox Business (https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/cisa-warning-russia-cyberattack-ukraine)

This would be considered an overt act of war, I'm not sure Russia really wants that when American public sentiment is largely to sit out a Russo-Ukrainian conflict.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 25, 2022, 01:20:10 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 11:09:34 AM

We just need to get the lazy asses sitting at home to go to work.

Capitalism offers several good solutions for this. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 25, 2022, 01:24:02 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 25, 2022, 08:03:04 AM

A completely polarized nation.

I'm struck that we as a people mostly seem to want this. 

The steps to depolarization involve stepping back. Turning the other cheek. Letting things roll off our back. 

But we can't be unpolarized if we flip shit in our rhetoric all the time. But there's money to be made there, and a certain kind fo joy we take in it. After all, this place used to no even allow it, but we just wanted to fire off our loud takes so much, eventually, the place changed. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 25, 2022, 01:26:20 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 25, 2022, 01:24:02 PM

I'm struck that we as a people mostly seem to want this.

We wouldn't be so polarized if the damn other side wasn't so deliberately divisive!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 25, 2022, 01:30:17 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 25, 2022, 01:20:10 PM

Capitalism offers several good solutions for this.

In theory it does.  But for whatever reasons, I don't think we're seeing an open, efficient, free labor market operating right now.

I've been surprised at how many local jobs have increased their wages substantially, even up to 100% increase from pre-pandemic levels, and offered signing bonuses and benefits, and are still going unfilled right now.

There's a certain segment of the population that left the job market in 2020, and just isn't coming back.  They haven't all made the transition from busboy or front office into successful online marketers and influencers, they haven't all replaced old-market jobs with next-gen employment.  A lot of them just simply haven't come back.  And I have no idea how they're paying for food and rent and all of life's other necessities and requirements.  Maybe they're all living in communes now?

But so far, even radical changes to market incentives, aren't moving the needle in a lot of cases.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 25, 2022, 01:38:55 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 11:51:20 AM

Yeah. That great dream stopped around the time the Great Depression happened.

[img width=500 height=278.993]https://i.imgur.com/ISv0CRz.png[/img]

Those people came and they worked in factories, stores, etc., and they had kids who did the same thing.

What's happened since has been a nightmare, on many fronts. We have a lot of kids who don't want to do anything, and this is all enabled.

Again, we need to rethink all of this. The American Dream is not what it used to be.

It's not a hard problem.
Since the 1970s, wages have fallen way off.  People don't want to settle for jobs they don't want because they pay far less than they once did.
It used to be financially worth it to give up on your dream, but now it's not.  And not close.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 25, 2022, 01:41:21 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 25, 2022, 01:30:17 PM

In theory it does.  But for whatever reasons, I don't think we're seeing an open, efficient, free labor market operating right now.

I've been surprised at how many local jobs have increased their wages substantially, even up to 100% increase from pre-pandemic levels, and offered signing bonuses and benefits, and are still going unfilled right now.

There's a certain segment of the population that left the job market in 2020, and just isn't coming back.  They haven't all made the transition from busboy or front office into successful online marketers and influencers, they haven't all replaced old-market jobs with next-gen employment.  A lot of them just simply haven't come back.  And I have no idea how they're paying for food and rent and all of life's other necessities and requirements.  Maybe they're all living in communes now?

But so far, even radical changes to market incentives, aren't moving the needle in a lot of cases.

This too is a question that I’ve kind of been pondering in the midst of the millions great resignation think piece.

I assume there is a great contraction of spending somewhere? Maybe in the rent space? One thing I have found very interesting in American society is how living on one’s own is treated as a necessity rather than luxury, or at least it was until a couple of recessions ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 25, 2022, 01:42:34 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 25, 2022, 01:24:02 PM

I'm struck that we as a people mostly seem to want this.

The steps to depolarization involve stepping back. Turning the other cheek. Letting things roll off our back.

But we can't be unpolarized if we flip shit in our rhetoric all the time. But there's money to be made there, and a certain kind fo joy we take in it. After all, this place used to no even allow it, but we just wanted to fire off our loud takes so much, eventually, the place changed.

I don't even have to specify party here, becuase it's irrelevant:

when one side goes fuck-nuts-batshit crazy and the other side loses by remaining prudent, polarization is what you get.  It becomes an arms race of crazy until it collapses.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 25, 2022, 01:42:58 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 25, 2022, 01:26:20 PM

We wouldn't be so polarized if the damn other side wasn't so deliberately divisive!

It’s a joke, but also true. 

Rage filled, polarized people are the base of power in our system. It’s a paradox. The way you build a base is with people who don’t question and fall in line, and deviation and self reflection becomes weakness not strength.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 25, 2022, 01:50:37 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 25, 2022, 01:41:21 PM

This too is a question that I’ve kind of been pondering in the midst of the millions great resignation think piece.

I assume there is a great contraction of spending somewhere? Maybe in the rent space? One thing I have found very interesting in American society is how living on one’s own is treated as a necessity rather than luxury, or at least it was until a couple of recessions ago.

A - the uber-wealthy are only getting richer
but also
B - there is an oddity of living spaces (and the auto indsutry) when it comes to spending......I'm going to set aside buying, because that requires X-amount of money to put down (which many don't have) plus taking out amassive loan (which most can't and some don't want to) and focus on renting.
If you want to live very cheaply, but aren't poor, you're shit out of luck.  There's the average market price for a rental at one end and the cheap level of housing for the poor.  But there's nothing in-between (as you astutely pointed out, if you want to live alone).  
I see a parallel in the car-buying market.  You can buy a new car for at least $10,000 or more, which you'd take out a loan (if you qualify) or you can buy a cheap car for (realistcally) $3 or 4,000.  But there's not much in the middle.
Anyone who could throw down $7,500 cash can afford to finance and anyone wanting a decent car, but is poor won't have that much cash to spend.


Now the answer to both situations may simply be "the market," but I'll ask it anyway......why isn't there decent, cheap housing and why isn't there financing for inexpensive cars?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 25, 2022, 01:51:35 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 25, 2022, 01:42:58 PM

It’s a joke, but also true.

Rage filled, polarized people are the base of power in our system. It’s a paradox. The way you build a base is with people who don’t question and fall in line, and deviation and self reflection becomes weakness not strength.

And we're supposed to pretend we don't know which party started exploiting this first.....:57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 02:07:22 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 25, 2022, 01:50:37 PM

Now the answer to both situations may simply be "the market," but I'll ask it anyway......why isn't there decent, cheap housing and why isn't there financing for inexpensive cars?

There has been quite a bit of effort to build affordable housing in recent years. It's a need, be it . I'm currently working on 4 projects like that. Two are for ownership, and two are for rentals.

These projects almost always face a ton of blowback from the surrounding owners, which makes them difficult to get done. NIMBY. It's not impossible, but it's not easy.

As for financing, that's a tough one for sure. Lenders are not nearly as risky as they were prior to 2008. They want to be assured that they will get their money back.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 02:08:15 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 25, 2022, 01:51:35 PM

And we're supposed to pretend we don't know which party started exploiting this first.....:57:

It doesn't matter. It just needs to stop.

Nuking twitter and the rest of that ilk would be a start.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 25, 2022, 02:44:42 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 02:07:22 PM

These projects almost always face a ton of blowback from the surrounding owners, which makes them difficult to get done. NIMBY. It's not impossible, but it's not easy.

One fascinating blocker is the reality of a home as asset. 

As soon as most people get into property ownership, it is expressly good for them for it to be hard for other people to get property. And they’re incentivized to do so. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 25, 2022, 03:01:00 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 25, 2022, 01:42:34 PM

I don't even have to specify party here, becuase it's irrelevant:

when one side goes fuck-nuts-batshit crazy and the other side loses by remaining prudent, polarization is what you get.  It becomes an arms race of crazy until it collapses. 

This. 
 
I still believe the overwhelming majority are closer to the center than to the extremes on the left or right- almost a standard bell curve. 

for a while now- the challenge is that the people on both edges have the microphone - through social media and mainstream media.  And when they speak-repeatedly- they incite and inflame those not on the edges, and push them further from the middle and towards the extreme on their side of the curve. 

Sort of a “ forced choose a side” which just creates greater polarization and demonization of the opposite side. 

fixing it will be hard.  It requires moderation, respect, and dialogue- which leads to COMPROMISE.  When is the last time we saw that in our government?    I can’t even remember.  Those with the microphone scream immediately at anything less than full agreement. 

Why can’t they sit in a room and compromise on a plan to improve elections that both protects right to vote, and preserves election integrity. Hell- there are people in this forum that could do it if given the opportunity. 

why is everything a strict party line vote? Why can’t they design a policy on immigration that makes sense enough to be voted on by large members of both sides?

It is a hard spiral, but I wish we could break it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 25, 2022, 03:02:49 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 25, 2022, 01:51:35 PM

And we're supposed to pretend we don't know which party started exploiting this first.....:57:

It was the Whigs.  No, the Tories.

Labour?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 25, 2022, 03:04:59 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 25, 2022, 03:02:49 PM

It was the Whigs.  No, the Tories.

Labour?

The party I went to sophomore year of college where someone badgered us into shots of Malibu before we went out. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 25, 2022, 03:59:14 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 25, 2022, 03:01:00 PM

Why can’t they sit in a room and compromise on a plan to improve elections that both protects right to vote, and preserves election integrity. Hell- there are people in this forum that could do it if given the opportunity. 

Because the true goal of the left is not to protect the right to vote but to defeat the Republicans and to do that they need 2 am ballet dumps, voter harvesting and a multitude of other fraudulent operations and they need to get election procedures out of the state's hands and into federal hands

why is everything a strict party line vote? Why can’t they design a policy on immigration that makes sense enough to be voted on by large members of both sides?

Nope again because the actual goal of the left is to import as many immigrants as possible who are needy and dependent to increase the dem vote.  Why all of a sudden are they allowing non citizens to vote in several areas.
This wouldnt be happening if these folks voted Republican

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 25, 2022, 05:16:28 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 25, 2022, 02:44:42 PM

One fascinating blocker is the reality of a home as asset.

As soon as most people get into property ownership, it is expressly good for them for it to be hard for other people to get property. And they’re incentivized to do so.

Well, I think it's twofold. 

Your house, for most people in this country, is the biggest financial decision you'll ever make that doesn't include marriage or children. Not only is it massive from a financial sense, but it's also emotional. It's about choosing who you are, where you want to be, and what sort of community you want to live in. You put down roots, you have kids (who go to school), you become a part of that community. 

• When outside forces like "zoning boards" try to make changes and that means the very nature of your community might change, you can't simply decouple the emotional aspects. It's your life. Do you want to blow up friendships, do you want to force your kids into new schools in a new community, do you want to uproot exactly what you've built? No.
• When those same forces do something that will negatively affect the financial value of your asset, and you can exert political pressure to support the financial value, it's basically a no-brainer to exert that pressure to preserve it. If not only does the actions of a zoning board mean that your community will change and make you want to sell your house and move somewhere else, if the actions of that zoning board means that you're not going to get for your house what it was worth before they made their decision, you're gonna fight like hell. 

NIMBY is a lot of things, but irrational isn't one of them. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 05:39:18 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 25, 2022, 05:16:28 PM

Well, I think it's twofold.

Your house, for most people in this country, is the biggest financial decision you'll ever make that doesn't include marriage or children. Not only is it massive from a financial sense, but it's also emotional. It's about choosing who you are, where you want to be, and what sort of community you want to live in. You put down roots, you have kids (who go to school), you become a part of that community.

• When outside forces like "zoning boards" try to make changes and that means the very nature of your community might change, you can't simply decouple the emotional aspects. It's your life. Do you want to blow up friendships, do you want to force your kids into new schools in a new community, do you want to uproot exactly what you've built? No.
• When those same forces do something that will negatively affect the financial value of your asset, and you can exert political pressure to support the financial value, it's basically a no-brainer to exert that pressure to preserve it. If not only does the actions of a zoning board mean that your community will change and make you want to sell your house and move somewhere else, if the actions of that zoning board means that you're not going to get for your house what it was worth before they made their decision, you're gonna fight like hell.

NIMBY is a lot of things, but irrational isn't one of them.

Before I buy anywhere, I look at the municipal and county websites for any proposed changes. I also review the comprehensive plan. Everyone should do this, or at least hire someone to do it for them.

The neighbors bitching the loudest on one my projects are relatively new. The development is 4 years old. The adjacent property has been zoned multi-family for as far as I can go back, and has a notation in the comprehensive plan for affordable housing.

The bitches can go F themselves.

I liken it to people who live by an airport and bitch about noise, like it wasn't there when they moved in. F 'em.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on January 25, 2022, 05:50:44 PM

Regarding work/labor force  might we also be experiencing high worker displacement based on industry as a result of the pandemic.   Food/service industries are very well known to be suffering and in part some of those prior workers have fled those industries for WFH, and other opportunities in less volatile industries and will never return to them.

A contributory issue I'm suggesting. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 25, 2022, 05:51:38 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 05:39:18 PM

I liken it to people who live by an airport and bitch about noise, like it wasn't there when they moved in. F 'em.

Yeah, takeoff from John Wayne Airport here in Orange County is a trip... Rip it up the runway at max power, take the plan near vertical until you hit 800 feet, then level off and shut the engines to minimum to SLOWLY climb your way out until you clear Newport Beach, at which time you can return to applying throttle. 

Can't piss off the rich folks in Newport...

The other one that gets me is Salinas, CA, home of Laguna Seca Raceway. One of the iconic tracks of motorsports, it's nestled in what used to be farm country [I think]. Now rich people built houses, and they don't like all the noise from the racetrack, so outside of major sanctioned races a few times a year, they have noise restrictions. All the normal track day events are heavily monitored. Motorcycles with modified exhaust usually have to go partial-throttle at the crest of the front straight to ensure they don't get black flagged. I've even heard of guys who keep their stock exhaust and will swap it back onto the bike for track days at Laguna. 

What, you didn't know there was a racetrack there when you moved in? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 25, 2022, 06:10:04 PM

Finally home, long A drive for me.  We stayed two nights in Clearwater Beach, not a bad place, but kinda boring really.

Rain set in so we left today, a day early.  I'm still sore.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 25, 2022, 06:12:43 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on January 25, 2022, 05:50:44 PM

Regarding work/labor force  might we also be experiencing high worker displacement based on industry as a result of the pandemic.  Food/service industries are very well known to be suffering and in part some of those prior workers have fled those industries for WFH, and other opportunities in less volatile industries and will never return to them.

A contributory issue I'm suggesting.

Sure, and I allowed for it.

But it's not 100% of the people that formerly occupied those positions, that somehow-- miraculously-- found WFH opportunities with substantial compensation.  Some industries with WFH opportunities have grown, but there haven't been any significant NEW industries created, to employ the millions that have left service industries since March 2020.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 25, 2022, 06:31:55 PM

Gas ranged from $3.35 regular in Florida to $2.95, the lowest I saw it near Macon, not Costco.  We didn't grocery shop but we shopped quite a bit, muffling around.

Most chain restaurants are mediocre.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 25, 2022, 06:50:47 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 25, 2022, 06:31:55 PM

Most chain restaurants are mediocre.

That is true. 

What is also true is that independent restaurants are also mediocre. Because most people have terrible taste, so it doesn't take much to cater to that audience. (Which is also why most chain restaurants are mediocre, but at the same time successful.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 25, 2022, 07:20:40 PM

the benefit of a chain rest is that generally the food is the same in all of its locations so you know what youll get 

it may not be the best but at least it has minimal standards that you will rely on

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 25, 2022, 07:22:10 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 25, 2022, 06:50:47 PM

That is true.

What is also true is that independent restaurants are also mediocre. Because most people have terrible taste, so it doesn't take much to cater to that audience. (Which is also why most chain restaurants are mediocre, but at the same time successful.)

Yeah, I've tried plenty of mediocre-to-downright-disgusting locally owned mom and pop type restaurants.  Just because it's not a chain, doesn't make it good.  

Making high quality food takes time, effort, skill, and the ingredients often cost more.  Since the average person doesn't care to seek out or pay for high quality food, there's no reason for the average restaurant-- chain or locally owned-- to serve anything better.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 25, 2022, 08:28:22 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 25, 2022, 05:51:38 PM

What, you didn't know there was a racetrack there when you moved in?

Funny, the place I'm currently living is on the exit for Phoenix Raceway (NASCAR).  I had no idea.  I'd been to the drag racing and assumed it was on that piece of land just south of town.  
It's weird, you exit, take a non-descript main road south, through a few stop signs, and the road dead-ends at a mountain, and there's the raceway!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on January 25, 2022, 09:12:05 PM

Be interested if anybody has moved into the Speedway neighborhood  of Indy not knowing there's a 2 1/2 mile oval smack in the middle.

I grew up about 1.5 miles from a 1/4 clay oval.  Saturday night racing was audible but only loud w the Outlaws and sprint cars.  Kind of thought it was cool.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 25, 2022, 09:21:58 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 25, 2022, 07:20:40 PM

the benefit of a chain rest is that generally the food is the same in all of its locations so you know what youll get

it may not be the best but at least it has minimal standards that you will rely on

Yup, it's consistently mediocre, mostly, and when traveling as we were, that can be OK.  Dang long drive at my age.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 26, 2022, 07:38:16 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 25, 2022, 06:50:47 PM

That is true.

What is also true is that independent restaurants are also mediocre. Because most people have terrible taste,

Maybe a lot of people are grateful to eat,that might come in handy in the not to distant future. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 26, 2022, 07:56:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 25, 2022, 06:31:55 PM

Gas ranged from $3.35 regular in Florida to $2.95, the lowest I saw it near Macon, not Costco.  We didn't grocery shop but we shopped quite a bit, muffling around.

Most chain restaurants are mediocre.

Did you go to Cooter's?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 26, 2022, 08:09:15 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2022, 05:39:18 PM

The bitches can go F themselves.

I liken it to people who live by an airport and bitch about noise, like it wasn't there when they moved in. F 'em.

Or Rail Roads,a Friend of mine and his wife (both teachers) bought a good sized 4 bdrm Colonial with complete basement in suburbia little over 20yrs back.His move coincided with the FAA rerouting flight paths for whatever reason into the Airport in Cleveland. It was unbelievable,the federal government were paying homeowners for the inconvenienance,get this - new windows and doors all around,insulation.Like that wasn't a winfall in and of itself,they F****** paid for new Furnace/A.C units also. I get the windows/doors/insulation but with all that the equipment would work less. He's a great guy and all then his dad knew one of the local merchants who was big in close out market.He ended up getting his whole house carpeted for 800.00 bucks-which was a steal.In 5 yrs he made $50,000 when he moved to a new home(which was fantastic at that time).His dad was right - you couldn't do that in the market.And i was like
:41:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 08:17:54 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 26, 2022, 07:56:14 AM

Did you go to Cooter's?

Nope, I think we did pass one somewhere, I was not disposed to try it.  I was hoping to find some fresh seafood somewhere, but I suppose that is impossible in touristy areas.  We had lunch at some place called Crabby's Dockside which was about akin to a Red Lobster.  We had brunch at the Clear Sky Cafe which was commendable, but brunch isn't that much of a challenge.  We tried the Palm Pavillion and it was "OK" and also had dinner at the hotel (which got pricey in a hurry).

In North Port, everything is part of the package so I had no options.  The final dinner was at some golf club and was buffet style and mediocre indeed.  They had one dinner at Sharky's on the Pier that was mediocre.  I was hoping to find one of those places with their own fishing boats.

Hilton Head has a couple of those.  Clearwater Beach is nice enough, modern and clean, nice white sand beaches, but boring.  I had reserved it for three nights be we left a day early, in part because it was going to rain.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on January 26, 2022, 09:00:38 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 10:34:52 AM

I'm not calling you stupid I'm saying when we have a labor shortage we need more people to work, and that means immigrants. And there is a big supply of immigrants who want to come here and work. It's a pretty easy solution, but literally no one in politics is pushing for it, I imagine because they don't want to be unpopular. Legal immigration has declined over the last five years - that we have labor shortages should be of no surprise to anyone.

We don't have a labor shortage. We have an excessive amount of money pumped into the economy, going directly to those not wanting to work and willing to sit back and cash government checks. This has forced business owners to increase their wages in hopes of attracting people to work by paying them more than the government has. 

The problem is, currently the government is paying them enough to get by saving them from having to actually work for a living. That will not continue for long as something will need to break. 

The best thing to happen recently was for Congress to not support Biden's plan to spend more than another $5 Trillion of money we don't have. The government pumping money into the economy is the absolute worst thing that they could do to curtail inflation. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on January 26, 2022, 09:03:31 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 11:15:40 AM

They don't want to be a line cook. They want to learn about art history. If they can make that work for them, God bless. In the meantime, let the people who will travel hundreds of miles to be line cooks be line cooks.

Quit paying them for wanting to learn about art history as it is no benefit to the taxpayer. When they hungry enough, they will go be a line cook or something else to put a roof over their head and food in the belly. 

What we are doing now is paying them to do nothing. I personally don't care if they lay around or not, but I don't want my hard earning tax dollar paying for their lifestyle choice. That is their responsibility. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on January 26, 2022, 09:28:46 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on January 26, 2022, 09:00:38 AM

We don't have a labor shortage. We have an excessive amount of money pumped into the economy, going directly to those not wanting to work and willing to sit back and cash government checks. This has forced business owners to increase their wages in hopes of attracting people to work by paying them more than the government has.

The problem is, currently the government is paying them enough to get by saving them from having to actually work for a living. That will not continue for long as something will need to break.

Extended unemployment ended last September, and it didn't make a difference.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 26, 2022, 09:57:31 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on January 26, 2022, 09:28:46 AM

Extended unemployment ended last September, and it didn't make a difference.

Yeah, I can't speak for all states, but here in Texico the extended benefits ended last July.  No notable impact on the labor shortage.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 26, 2022, 10:11:43 AM

June here.

Let's see what the expiration of the expanded child tax credits does. That just happened.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 26, 2022, 10:13:47 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on January 26, 2022, 09:03:31 AM

Quit paying them for wanting to learn about art history as it is no benefit to the taxpayer. When they hungry enough, they will go be a line cook or something else to put a roof over their head and food in the belly.

What we are doing now is paying them to do nothing. I personally don't care if they lay around or not, but I don't want my hard earning tax dollar paying for their lifestyle choice. That is their responsibility.

Regardless of everything else, is there really no benefit to having people study art history? Does preserving culture and history have no value at all?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 10:14:12 AM

https://twitter.com/SohrabAhmari/status/1485217072850345989?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 26, 2022, 10:15:20 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 26, 2022, 10:11:43 AM

June here.

Let's see what the expiration of the expanded child tax credits does. That just happened.

Seems unlikely to do anything because it isn't much money. I suppose could exacerbate the problem by making people more likely to stay home. Day care is a racket.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 26, 2022, 10:16:08 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 26, 2022, 10:13:47 AM

Regardless of everything else, is there really no benefit to having people study art history? Does preserving culture and history have no value at all?

You don't have to waste 4+ years and massive debt (that they are begging to be forgiven) to learn about art history.

Trust me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 26, 2022, 10:18:59 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 26, 2022, 10:15:20 AM

Seems unlikely to do anything because it isn't much money. I suppose could exacerbate the problem by making people more likely to stay home. Day care is a racket.

I remember how expensive it was 30 years ago, when my wife and I were both working.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 10:20:07 AM

LMAO. 'Merica! F***K YEAH.

https://twitter.com/SameeraKhan/status/1484748693584629762?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 10:24:08 AM

this is a great read

https://www.cato.org/commentary/americas-ukraine-hypocrisy

And Chomsky nails this topic as he typically nails everything, from around 7 or so years ago. He also brings up a great point- funny how everyone is crying Crimea! Crimea! When the United States invaded eastern Cuba and took it over by gun point, still owns it today and has used Guantanamo Bay as a torture chamber to illegally capture, imprison, and torture people from 3rd world shitholes with no due process, no rule of law.....but...Crimea! Crimea!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq5IlDB-Ago

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 10:24:51 AM

Majors like art history are fine with me so long as the numbers coming out match the numbers needed in the job markets.  There is a clear need for STEM majors, but STEM fields are "hard".  So folks major in "sociology" where opinions matter and anything goes, basically.  My org chem class started with 180 odd and ended with 33, I heard that many of the missing went to business majors.

As for Ukraine, I am not seeing much risk that US forces will be directly involved, so I don't know why anyone is proposing otherwise as an option.  Russia is equipped for land combat near its borders.  Ukraine might be a tough nut if they want it all.  I have no clue how many "Russians" are in Ukraine now and would welcome an anschluss.  They could have a lot of Russians in their military that could do considerable harm.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 10:26:18 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 10:24:08 AM

this is a great read

https://www.cato.org/commentary/americas-ukraine-hypocrisy

And Chomsky nails this topic as he typically nails everything, from around 7 or so years ago. He also brings up a great point- funny how everyone is crying Crimea! Crimea! When the United States invaded eastern Cuba and took it over by gun point, still owns it today and has used Guantanamo Bay as a torture chamber to illegally capture, imprison, and torture people from 3rd world shitholes with no due process, no rule of law.....but...Crimea! Crimea!

When did the US invade "eastern Cuba"?  (The US has in the past taken territory obviously, I'm not sure that is a relevant example.)

How much "due process" is due to prisoners of war?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 10:42:29 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 10:26:18 AM

When did the US invade "eastern Cuba"?  (The US has in the past taken territory obviously, I'm not sure that is a relevant example.)

How much "due process" is due to prisoners of war?

The US took Guantanamo by gun point. The US invaded and just seized the entire port/bay in 1898. The US took it by force and forced Cuba to grant it to them in 1903. 

Why does the United States still hold it? Cuba is an independent, sovereign nation. And they do not want us there.Yet we will never leave. They have pleaded with the UN to pass resolutions calling on the US to leave. The US blocks it/shuts it down from getting anywhere. 

Ever heard of the freaking Geneva conventions? US's actions at it's Guantanamo Bay torture chamber violates its obligations under the Third Geneva Convention, the International Covenant for Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), the Convention Against Torture (CAT), and international law. No big deal though. Whatever. 

Prisoners of war. That's laughable. Prisoners of illegal wars of aggression that the US launched based off lies and in which the US invaded, destroyed, and occupied two countries for no legally justifiable reasons. Huge chunk of the people in Guantanamo were goat herders who had blood feuds with other Afghani or Iraqi goat herding cave dwellers- and the goat herding cave dwellers that sided with us would say- oh that guys a terrorist take him, him, and him. There were a f**kton of innocent people in that torture dungeon.

The entire point is....hard to throw stones when you live in a glass house. US should shut the f**k up and stop breaking international law and get their house in order and morally correct before they come at anyone else. The US gov't and it's military is the largest killing/terror machine in the entire world. It astounds me that Americans do not realize any this, nor can they ever look at the heinous actions of their own government.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 10:51:37 AM

Your notion of history is amusing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 26, 2022, 10:55:36 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 10:42:29 AM

Huge chunk of the people in Guantanamo were goat herders who had blood feuds with other Afghani or Iraqi goat herding cave dwellers- and the goat herding cave dwellers that sided with us would say- oh that guys a terrorist take him, him, and him. There were a f**kton of innocent people in that torture dungeon.

One of the Al Queda creeps they left out was involved with another bombing of some hotel awhile back.So ya - real victims :'(

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 10:59:07 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 10:51:37 AM

Your notion of history is amusing.

Nah. Your blind spots and ignorance are amusing. Feel free to answer any of the questions in the post above instead of sticking to childish insults. Bet you won't. Because you can't. The US is an imperialistic killing machine. Greatest in the entire world at it. We don't give two flying f**ks about "democracy".  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 11:00:50 AM

What questions?  Your assumptions are rather astounding, with no evidence of torture today at Gitmo and your notion of history about Gitmo is simply false.  I see no need to try and counter your bizarre belief set.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 11:10:19 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 26, 2022, 10:55:36 AM

One of the Al Queda creeps they left out was involved with another bombing of some hotel awhile back.So ya - real victims :'(

fun fact...Al Qaeda was not in Iraq until we toppled Saddam and they flooded in. Getting rid of Saddam was probably the worst thing we could have ever done to kick start Islamic extremism. Saddam had an iron grip on that country and he was a secular non-religious person who protected the 1 million+ minority Christian population in Iraq, jailed/imprisoned/killed Islamic extremists. There are basically no more Christians in Iraq. Thanks United States!

Also fun fact...Saudi Arabia- the US's closest ally in the middle east- funds and exports extreme wahhabism (which basically every terror/extremist group is a follower of) all throughout the muslim world. They have spent over $100 billion building schools and mosques throughout the muslim world spreading this poison.

Also fun fact...our drones which indiscriminately blow up and kill innocent people left and right create more extremists, not less. When you blow up innocent people and their entire families- you kinda give people reason to hate you and push them towards extremism. The drone program has killed countless thousands of innocents and civilians. We don't even know the actual real number, because the pentagon hides it. It's not some clean, antiseptic program. It inflicts terror and death and it's a terror generating machine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 11:15:03 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 11:00:50 AM

What questions?  Your assumptions are rather astounding, with no evidence of torture today at Gitmo and your notion of history about Gitmo is simply false.  I see no need to try and counter your bizarre belief set.

They are not assumptions. They are facts. Are you f**king kidding me? Lol. Who cares about today. It was not that long ago it was explicitly a torture chamber. Give me a break. And yeah, they don't capture and torture anymore, because Obama said nah, let's pivot from what that Bush guy was doing and let's use these new shiny drones and just blow shit up indiscriminately killing civilians and terrorizing entire towns on the daily.

Why is the United States still occupying Cuban soil? They don't want us there. Will we ever leave? Nope. We have 900+ bases around the world. The US is an imperial power. Find it laughable when they talk about other countries aggression or other countries interferring with foreign elections. Interferring in foreign elections? That's childs play. When the US doesn't like a foreign gov't they just overthrow it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on January 26, 2022, 12:17:54 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 26, 2022, 10:13:47 AM

Regardless of everything else, is there really no benefit to having people study art history? Does preserving culture and history have no value at all?

Who do suppose should pay for it? I don't care what a person studies, just don't hand me the bill.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 26, 2022, 12:43:39 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on January 26, 2022, 12:17:54 PM

Who do suppose should pay for it? I don't care what a person studies, just don't hand me the bill.

I mean...how many bills for someone's art history degree have you received?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 26, 2022, 12:46:41 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 11:15:03 AM

They are not assumptions. They are facts. Are you f**king kidding me? Lol. Who cares about today. It was not that long ago it was explicitly a torture chamber. Give me a break. And yeah, they don't capture and torture anymore, because Obama said nah, let's pivot from what that Bush guy was doing and let's use these new shiny drones and just blow shit up indiscriminately killing civilians and terrorizing entire towns on the daily.

Why is the United States still occupying Cuban soil? They don't want us there. Will we ever leave? Nope. We have 900+ bases around the world. The US is an imperial power. Find it laughable when they talk about other countries aggression or other countries interferring with foreign elections. Interferring in foreign elections? That's childs play. When the US doesn't like a foreign gov't they just overthrow it.

Well hey let's be fair we do pay about $4000 a year in rent to Cuba for the area. I'm sure that's fair market value for 45 square miles of seaside property.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 12:55:18 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 26, 2022, 12:46:41 PM

Well hey let's be fair we do pay about $4000 a year in rent to Cuba for the area. I'm sure that's fair market value for 45 square miles of seaside property.

:043:

that is hilarious that we actually pay them $4,000. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 01:00:39 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on January 25, 2022, 08:49:37 AM

Since 2014 no one has done more to justify NATO than Putin.  Putin has said publicly that he intends to rebuild the Soviet Union and until 2014 few took that talk seriously.

Lol. Wtf. He's never said this. Once. He said something along the lines of, looking back on things 25 years later, it was probably a mistake to dissolve the USSR. He's never said or claimed to restore it. Why do people just make things up? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 26, 2022, 01:01:07 PM

Histrionics regarding whataboutism are completely irrelevant.

I'm an intelligent, rational human being that can hold multiple thoughts and opinions at the same time.  I can both disagree with the actions the USA has taken in the past, and also disagree with Russia invading the Ukraine. 

And Russia invading the Ukraine is the current event-- the topic at hand.

If you want to have a separate discussion about the USA's past as an imperialistic nation, have at it.  I don't care to engage, but perhaps someone else will.

But it's irrelevant within the context of discussing a Russian invasion of the Ukraine, and the USA's potential part in it.  Which, as I've stated before, I don't support.  I too believe we need to re-think our agreements with NATO.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 01:05:29 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 25, 2022, 08:55:21 AM

Germany's got themselves stuck between a rock and a hard place.  They've turned out to be pretty toothless after all.

Which, after so many decades of reunification fears among the other countries in Europe, might not be the worst thing in the world.

Germany is highly dependent on Russian energy. They do not want conflict with Russia. 60% of German citizens surveyed have said they are against going to war/coming to the aid to the defense of any NATO member if it was attacked. LOL. Shows you how much they care about NATO. 

Great point lol. It's Russia that should be afraid of Germany, not the other way around. It was Germany after all that invaded killed millions of Russians and virtually destroyed Russia twice in the last oh 100+ years. The people in Russia haven't forgotten this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 26, 2022, 01:07:20 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 01:05:29 PM

The people in Russia haven't forgotten this.

Obviously you have not, comrade.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on January 26, 2022, 01:17:18 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 26, 2022, 12:43:39 PM

I mean...how many bills for someone's art history degree have you received?

I'm not referring to their college expenses. It's they're unemployment that my tax dollars are paying for. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 01:23:27 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 26, 2022, 01:01:07 PM

Histrionics regarding whataboutism are completely irrelevant.

I'm an intelligent, rational human being that can hold multiple thoughts and opinions at the same time.  I can both disagree with the actions the USA has taken in the past, and also disagree with Russia invading the Ukraine.

And Russia invading the Ukraine is the current event-- the topic at hand.

If you want to have a separate discussion about the USA's past as an imperialistic nation, have at it.  I don't care to engage, but perhaps someone else will.

But it's irrelevant within the context of discussing a Russian invasion of the Ukraine, and the USA's potential part in it.  Which, as I've stated before, I don't support.  I too believe we need to re-think our agreements with NATO.

It is not whataboutism. Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house. The US is in no position of moral authority and in no position to even pretend that it is. As an American citizen, I am concerned about what THIS country does and how it's actions effect the world. I cannot be responsible for another countries actions nor do I wish to be. I am an American. It's crass to say, but I really could give a f**k less about the rest of the world. I love this country and care about this country and what THIS country does.

The US imperial actions are not past actions, they are also present. And I disagree with them vehemently. As I do Russia invading Ukraine. Russia should not invade Ukraine. And as it stands right now, Russia has not invaded Ukraine. My hope is that they do not.

Again, the USA's past is not as an imperialistic nation. That is it's present. That's what it is. That's what we are. We are an imperial power. An imperial super power actually. That's not past. It's present.

The US is ramping up tensions and has played a role in this conflict. The US implicitly promised Gorbachev that NATO would not expand one inch eastward if USSR withdrew from East Germany and allowed for reunification. Gorbachev had legitimate reasons not to let that happen, it was GERMANY which invaded and all but destroyed Russia- twice- in the last 75 years alone at that point. Gorbachev allowed for the reunification of Germany in the name of peace and goodwill with the West. Bush I kept that promise not to expand NATO. But he's the only one. As soon as Clinton got into office, what did he do? He immediately pushed to expand NATO eastward. NATO is a military alliance, not a political one. And it's a military alliance that is completely controlled by the United States. Expansion of a military alliance nearer and nearer to Russia is not something they would want. It's not something any country would want. Would we want that? No.

The US has played a huge role in this conflict. They've gone back on their assurances and aggressively expanded NATO. They had a hand in helping to topple a democratically elected government in Ukraine in 2014. Think what you want of that government, but it's elections were deemed by international observers to be mostly free and fair, and it was democratically elected. The US was not just some neutral party- the US backed the overthrow of that government and had a hand in the new government that replaced it. And while I am 100% against invasions or annexations- it wasn't until that overthrow that Russia took Crimea. Not a justification- just pointing out that fact- and it's a complex situation with grey areas.

And the US is now sending lethal arms to Ukraine- something Obama wisely refused to do- and that is escalating tensions with diplomats like Anthony Blinkin going on tv and spouting tough guy talk rhetoric which will do nothing but only lead to a pissing contest between two nuclear armed powers. Russia has about half of the worlds nuclear war heads. We should try to avoid war.

BTW the new Ukrainian government has passed all sorts of discriminatory anti-Russian language laws- and a huge chunk of that countries population is ethnic Russian and speak Russian as a first or second language. And the rise of far right neo-nazi extremists in Ukraine has shot through the f**king roof now- and those people have their fingers in the new government and military. Some of these weapons were shipping over there will be going into the hands of neo-nazis. Great job 'Merica. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 01:24:23 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 26, 2022, 01:07:20 PM

Obviously you have not, comrade.

Great joke. Serious question. It was a long time ago, should they just get over it? 

What if Mexico invaded the US twice in the last 100 years and killed tens of millions of Americans. Hey, it was a long time ago. Get over it, right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 26, 2022, 01:27:33 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 01:24:23 PM

Great joke. Serious question. It was a long time ago, should they just get over it?

What if Mexico invaded the US twice in the last 100 years and killed tens of millions of Americans. Hey, it was a long time ago. Get over it, right?

They are invading it right now and we are just sitting back and allowing it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 26, 2022, 01:35:25 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 01:23:27 PM

It is not whataboutism. Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house. The US is in no position of moral authority and in no position to even pretend that it is. As an American citizen, I am concerned about what THIS country does and how it's actions effect the world. I cannot be responsible for another countries actions nor do I wish to be. I am an American. It's crass to say, but I really could give a f**k less about the rest of the world. I love this country and care about this country and what THIS country does.

TL; DR

Once again, I will not engage in your histrionics regarding whataboutism.

Regarding the issue of any potential Russo-Ukranian conflict, which is the topic at hand, as an American citizen, you are espousing a policy of isolationism.  That's a valid topic for discussion, and you're obviously entitled to your own opinion on it.  Some will agree, some will disagree.

Overall I'm not a complete isolationist, but I don't support American involvement in this particular potential conflict.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 26, 2022, 01:35:47 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 10:20:07 AM

LMAO. 'Merica! F***K YEAH.

(https://i.imgur.com/6zjMYiK.png)


(https://i.imgur.com/neUbMZu.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/IL4jC5u.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 26, 2022, 01:42:29 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 01:05:29 PM

 It was Germany after all that invaded killed millions of Russians and virtually destroyed Russia twice in the last oh 100+ years. The people in Russia haven't forgotten this.

Not sure the gerries got much further east than Poland-Hungary-Romania in WW1.Before the Russky Civil War

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 26, 2022, 01:47:16 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 11:10:19 AM

fun fact...

There were creeps that deserved to get detained was the point

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 01:57:24 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 25, 2022, 08:16:14 AM

Economy has shot back up, unemployment at record low. Carry on bemoaning everything, but the country is in pretty fine shape. The biggest problem I see is the lack of immigration, which is a big problem when it comes to inflation. I wish Biden would make the case for immigration instead of just ignoring it.

I wouldn't say the economy has shot back up. It's rebounded sure, but that's to be expected, as it was in the gutter and there was nowhere to go but back up. The unemployment statistics are being gamed, as every administration does. But the Biden administration may have taken the gaming of the stats that to laughable new levels. A lot of the "new" jobs are just people going back to work. And a lot of jobs are part time or gig economy jobs like Uber drivers and DoorDash delivery guys. Technically jobs, sure but these aren't really dignified JOBS that pay a livable wage.

The facts are as follows; as many as 4 million jobs are gone forever. About 1/3rd of small businesses donezo. As much as 60% of restaurants- closed forever. Not saying this is Biden's fault- these are just the facts of the devastating effects Coronavirus and the fed/state/local governments response to coronavirus had on the economy.

The US was already teetering on becoming a rapacious oligarchy before corona. Wealth inequality levels before corona were the highest since the roaring '20s. All corona and the response from the government did was to accelerate wealth inequality. The CARES act was the largest transfer of wealth in the history of this country- and it will reshape the economy for decades to come. Main Street suffered while Wall Street got bail outs and access to trillion dollar credit allocations/slush funds. The gulf between the haves and have nots has accelerated at record pace. Wealth inequality has now shattered every previous record in the US history books and is at a record all-time high. But hey, Americans got a one-time $1,200 check though. Lol. The conglomerates have just continued to consolidate through corona and buy up smaller businesses and distressed assets, and monopolies continue to devour everything- even though we have anti-trust laws on that books that are never enforced. Might be a good time to start enforcing them and breaking up Amazon, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, etc..

As far as inflation goes, the connection to immigration is unclear to me. Wage increase is a good thing, and a much needed thing for many Americans. Your average working class American has not seen a real wage increase in 40+ years - meanwhile costs of living have been rising drastically in that same time span. Americans have had to load up on credit cards and debts to maintain living standards. Wage increases are a good thing.

The main driver of inflation has been the skyrocketing cost of oil. The US dollar is tethered to the oil trade- it is what allows us to continue to maintain our status as the reserve currency of the world- and the cost of oil impacts literally the cost of everything else in the world. It is the greatest single input in the entire world economy. The entire world for the most part still runs on it. When oil goes up, price for every kind of fuel goes up, price for trucking, shipping- literally everything goes up. They go hand in hand. And Biden could try to fix this problem by getting on his knees and sucking off MbS, bending over backwards and begging Saudis to ramp production to all-time highs and drive oil prices down. As far as I know the bumbling brain dead senile old fart still refuses to talk to MbS. Senile Joe is a "tough guy" he's going to show that MbS! You go Joe...keep on keepin' on while inflation destroys the average US worker/family.

Increases in demand and supply chains being f**ked obviously has lead to increases in prices/inflation. There has definitely been some price gouging on as well- big agribusiness-  which has lead to ridiculous prices at grocery stores. I have a buddy who owns a restaurant and ever since COVID his chicken supplier has raised prices by 3x what it was before for a case of chicken. They just increased the price on him again. I don't think there is a lack of chickens.....I understand fuel costs are higher and they might have to pay their truck drivers and plant workers more......but those continued price increases are just....insane. There has to be price gouging going on- for sure. Dirty little secret- once businesses know they can get people to pay a higher price for something- they almost never lower the price.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 26, 2022, 02:17:21 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 01:57:24 PM

I wouldn't say the economy has shot back up. It's rebounded sure, but that's to be expected, as it was in the gutter and there was nowhere to go but back up. The unemployment statistics are being gamed, as every administration does. But the Biden administration may have taken the gaming of the stats that to laughable new levels. A lot of the "new" jobs are just people going back to work. And a lot of jobs are part time or gig economy jobs like Uber drivers and DoorDash delivery guys. Technically jobs, sure but these aren't really dignified JOBS that pay a livable wage.

The facts are as follows; as many as 4 million jobs are gone forever. About 1/3rd of small businesses donezo. As much as 60% of restaurants- closed forever. Not saying this is Biden's fault- these are just the facts of the devastating effects Coronavirus and the fed/state/local governments response to coronavirus had on the economy.

The US was already teetering on becoming a rapacious oligarchy before corona. Wealth inequality levels before corona were the highest since the roaring '20s. All corona and the response from the government did was to accelerate wealth inequality. The CARES act was the largest transfer of wealth in the history of this country- and it will reshape the economy for decades to come. Main Street suffered while Wall Street got bail outs and access to trillion dollar credit allocations/slush funds. The gulf between the haves and have nots has accelerated at record pace. Wealth inequality has now shattered every previous record in the US history books and is at a record all-time high. But hey, Americans got a one-time $1,200 check though. Lol. The conglomerates have just continued to consolidate through corona and buy up smaller businesses and distressed assets, and monopolies continue to devour everything- even though we have anti-trust laws on that books that are never enforced. Might be a good time to start enforcing them and breaking up Amazon, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, etc..

As far as inflation goes, the connection to immigration is unclear to me. Wage increase is a good thing, and a much needed thing for many Americans. Your average working class American has not seen a real wage increase in 40+ years - meanwhile costs of living have been rising drastically in that same time span. Americans have had to load up on credit cards and debts to maintain living standards. Wage increases are a good thing.

The main driver of inflation has been the skyrocketing cost of oil. The US dollar is tethered to the oil trade- it is what allows us to continue to maintain our status as the reserve currency of the world- and the cost of oil impacts literally the cost of everything else in the world. It is the greatest single input in the entire world economy. The entire world for the most part still runs on it. When oil goes up, price for every kind of fuel goes up, price for trucking, shipping- literally everything goes up. They go hand in hand. And Biden could try to fix this problem by getting on his knees and sucking off MbS, bending over backwards and begging Saudis to ramp production to all-time highs and drive oil prices down. As far as I know the bumbling brain dead senile old fart still refuses to talk to MbS. Senile Joe is a "tough guy" he's going to show that MbS! You go Joe...keep on keepin' on while inflation destroys the average US worker/family.

Increases in demand and supply chains being f**ked obviously has lead to increases in prices/inflation. There has definitely been some price gouging on as well- big agribusiness-  which has lead to ridiculous prices at grocery stores. I have a buddy who owns a restaurant and ever since COVID his chicken supplier has raised prices by 3x what it was before for a case of chicken. They just increased the price on him again. I don't think there is a lack of chickens.....I understand fuel costs are higher and they might have to pay their truck drivers and plant workers more......but those continued price increases are just....insane. There has to be price gouging going on- for sure. Dirty little secret- once businesses know they can get people to pay a higher price for something- they almost never lower the price.

Pretty much agree with one exception. The wage increases that are happening to try and attract workers might be perceived as helping the workers, but those costs are simply passed directly through to the consumer of whatever that businesses. Just exacerbates inflation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 02:21:41 PM

If one tracks REAL wages and then claims they aren't keeping up with rising costs, per above, it makes no sense, to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 26, 2022, 02:21:51 PM

When workers get $15/hour to flip Big Macs... The Big Mac then costs $10.00. Worker still cannot afford Big Mac.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 26, 2022, 02:23:14 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 26, 2022, 02:21:51 PM

When workers get $15/hour to flip Big Macs... The Big Mac then costs $10.00. Worker still cannot afford Big Mac.

Exactly 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 02:28:36 PM

We stopped a couple times at McDs when traveling for breakfast.  They all had ordering stations like I saw in France years ago.  One was closed due to COVID, and for some reason the ones near Macon, GA are all without indoor dining and service, every one of them.

Automation will replace low skilled jobs in increasing numbers over time, obviously, and we may find we need universal income because a fair portion of the population will be unable to work.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 26, 2022, 02:32:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 02:28:36 PM

We stopped a couple times at McDs when traveling for breakfast.  They all had ordering stations like I saw in France years ago.  One was closed due to COVID, and for some reason the ones near Macon, GA are all without indoor dining and service, every one of them.

Automation will replace low skilled jobs in increasing numbers over time, obviously, and we may find we need universal income because a fair portion of the population will be unable to work.

Isn’t universal income what we have now?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 26, 2022, 03:19:23 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 26, 2022, 02:21:51 PM

When workers get $15/hour to flip Big Macs... The Big Mac then costs $10.00. Worker still cannot afford Big Mac.

that's not true at all. assuming mcd's entire payroll is min wage (it's not) and assuming they'll want to pass along 100% of increased costs (they will, probably more like 175% if history of major corps is any judge), then the cost for their payroll to effectively double would be an average increase on products sold to be around 13%. So the big mac would go from $3.99 pre-tax (as listed on their website, i haven't eaten there in i don't know how long so no clue if its slightly different), to around $4.50.

a purdue study from a few years back (https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2015/Q3/study-raising-wages-to-15-an-hour-for-limited-service-restaurant-employees-would-raise-prices-4.3-percent.html) found it to be quite a bit less of an increase, only about 4.3% increase, or $0.17 cents to $4.16.

and looking at europe, which the average min wage is roughly $12-13, but also typically offers far better benefits, has an average cost of a big mac around $4.75.

i'm generally not for the gov sticking their head into most issues, but the cost of living has increased a significant amount (housing/rent, transportation - both autos and fuel, utilities, food and other necessities, etc) and if the corps won't take it upon themselves to reinvest in the workers then maybe the gov should step in. its well overdue. and corps aren't hurting, they're posting record profits every qtr.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 03:33:56 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 26, 2022, 02:32:27 PM

Isn’t universal income what we have now?

no, not even close.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 26, 2022, 03:42:07 PM

minimum wage not only increases minimum wage earners wage but will also increase wages for any employee making what the new minimum wage is and on and on

the company is forced to give wage increases almost across the board to keep its employees

and yes when the dust settles the company will pass it on to the consumer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 26, 2022, 03:42:26 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 03:33:56 PM

no, not even close.

Just depends on how you look at it guess.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 26, 2022, 04:06:38 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on January 26, 2022, 03:19:23 PM

that's not true at all. assuming mcd's entire payroll is min wage (it's not) and assuming they'll want to pass along 100% of increased costs (they will, probably more like 175% if history of major corps is any judge), then the cost for their payroll to effectively double would be an average increase on products sold to be around 13%. So the big mac would go from $3.99 pre-tax (as listed on their website, i haven't eaten there in i don't know how long so no clue if its slightly different), to around $4.50.

a purdue study from a few years back (https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2015/Q3/study-raising-wages-to-15-an-hour-for-limited-service-restaurant-employees-would-raise-prices-4.3-percent.html) found it to be quite a bit less of an increase, only about 4.3% increase, or $0.17 cents to $4.16.

and looking at europe, which the average min wage is roughly $12-13, but also typically offers far better benefits, has an average cost of a big mac around $4.75.

i'm generally not for the gov sticking their head into most issues, but the cost of living has increased a significant amount (housing/rent, transportation - both autos and fuel, utilities, food and other necessities, etc) and if the corps won't take it upon themselves to reinvest in the workers then maybe the gov should step in. its well overdue. and corps aren't hurting, they're posting record profits every qtr.

(https://i.imgur.com/JH8WtiD.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/ZaS0OyY.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/YqqqVpw.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 04:55:41 PM

Badge, are those your local Florida prices? 

I know fast food prices out here in CA are significantly higher than most other places. While you could say that's due to wages, I think a HUGE portion of it is due to the cost of real estate. I think the dirt below the restaurant is driving the price a lot more than wages. 

It's also one of the reasons that gas is so expensive out here. I highly doubt it's due to the lone register jockey sitting on a stool in the convenience area. (There are other reasons, i.e. taxes, unique blend, etc. But cost of land is a huge one.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 26, 2022, 04:56:06 PM

cool pictures, what are those?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 26, 2022, 04:57:47 PM

fwiw, the #'s i posted were the burger only, not the meal, and the % would hold either way.

and according to this, average price in us is $5.17. https://mc-menu.com/mcdonalds-menu-prices/61-big-mac.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 26, 2022, 04:59:44 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 04:55:41 PM

Badge, are those your local Florida prices?

I know fast food prices out here in CA are significantly higher than most other places. While you could say that's due to wages, I think a HUGE portion of it is due to the cost of real estate. I think the dirt below the restaurant is driving the price a lot more than wages.

It's also one of the reasons that gas is so expensive out here. I highly doubt it's due to the lone register jockey sitting on a stool in the convenience area. (There are other reasons, i.e. taxes, unique blend, etc. But cost of land is a huge one.)

Could be.  You could test that theory by checking the prices of McDonald's meals in LA and San Francisco compared to... say... Bakersfield.  If there's a big difference that could indicate that land is a major contributing factor.  If they're the same or close, then it would likely indicate something more systemic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 05:01:09 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 26, 2022, 04:59:44 PM

Could be.  You could test that theory by checking the prices of McDonald's meals in LA and San Francisco compared to... say... Bakersfield.  If there's a big difference that could indicate that land is a major contributing factor.  If they're close, then it would indicate something more systemic.

I don't have the app and the web site apparently won't show me menu prices. 

And I'm not driving to Bakersfield to test it lol. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 26, 2022, 05:04:36 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 26, 2022, 04:59:44 PM

Could be.  You could test that theory by checking the prices of McDonald's meals in LA and San Francisco compared to... say... Bakersfield.  If there's a big difference that could indicate that land is a major contributing factor.  If they're close, then it would indicate something more systemic.

check link in my reply right above yours. high of $7.09 in ma, low of $4.19 in nc. those are state averages, individual cities will vary.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 26, 2022, 05:06:26 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on January 26, 2022, 05:04:36 PM

check link in my reply right above yours. high of $7.09 in ma, low of $4.19 in nc. those are state averages, individual cities will vary.

Thanks.  State average doesn't really help for this particular experiment.  

And I don't care enough to dig into it anyway.  But someone else might. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 26, 2022, 05:07:43 PM

doesnt Calif have a minimum wage law

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 26, 2022, 05:09:23 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 05:01:09 PM

I don't have the app and the web site apparently won't show me menu prices.

And I'm not driving to Bakersfield to test it lol.

Oh come on man, roadtrips to Bakersfield are a downright pilgrimage!




(for fans of Buck Owens and Dwight Yoakum...)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 26, 2022, 05:18:06 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 26, 2022, 05:09:23 PM

Oh come on man, roadtrips to Bakersfield are a downright pilgrimage!




(for fans of Buck Owens and Dwight Yoakum...)

😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 26, 2022, 05:22:56 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 26, 2022, 05:06:26 PM

Thanks.  State average doesn't really help for this particular experiment. 

And I don't care enough to dig into it anyway.  But someone else might. :)

quick google presented this link. https://www.restaurantbusinessonline.com/financing/why-big-mac-costs-more-seattle-austin

doesn't have san fran or la, but does have some higher cost cities vs some lower.

seattle, for example, is the highest on their list, with a big mac costing $6.39. montgomery, al is lowest at $3.69. that's a ~42% increase over the 2 locations. i don't know this, but i'd wager property value is greater or equal to 40% higher in seattle.

of course labor is part of that big mac price increase, but it's hardly the $10+ increase some propose.

this chart might be of interest.
(https://i.imgur.com/3urJuo8.png)

min wage is obviously driving a cost increase, but no where near the skyrocketing hikes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 26, 2022, 05:23:55 PM

ok Im gonna ask again doesnt Calif have a minimum wage more then twice the amount of Federal law

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 26, 2022, 05:25:47 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 26, 2022, 05:23:55 PM

ok Im gonna ask again doesnt Calif have a minimum wage more then twice the amount of Federal law

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article256763387.html

effective jan 1 this year, companies with 26 or more employees it's $15, 25 or fewer employees its $14.

25 or fewer will go to $15 starting jan 1 2023.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 26, 2022, 05:26:52 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on January 26, 2022, 05:22:56 PM

quick google presented this link. https://www.restaurantbusinessonline.com/financing/why-big-mac-costs-more-seattle-austin

doesn't have san fran or la, but does have some higher cost cities vs some lower.

seattle, for example, is the highest on their list, with a big mac costing $6.39. montgomery, al is lowest at $3.69. that's a ~42% increase over the 2 locations. i don't know this, but i'd wager property value is greater or equal to 40% higher in seattle.

Ehhh...I'm guessing the average Alabaman is eating a lot more big macs that the average Seattlite.  Simple supply and demand is going to play into this, no?

They've been 2 for $6 here recently, so I've had a few.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 26, 2022, 05:29:58 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on January 26, 2022, 05:25:47 PM

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article256763387.html

effective jan 1 this year, companies with 26 or more employees it's $15, 25 or fewer employees its $14.

25 or fewer will go to $15 starting jan 1 2023.

compared to the Federal requirement of $7.25

BTW Biden wants the Federal amount to go to $15

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 26, 2022, 05:33:29 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 26, 2022, 05:26:52 PM

Ehhh...I'm guessing the average Alabaman is eating a lot more big macs that the average Seattlite.  Simple supply and demand is going to play into this, no?

They've been 2 for $6 here recently, so I've had a few.

likely, but they've also got > 10 times the population. over 4 million vs just under 400,000. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 05:43:48 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 26, 2022, 05:23:55 PM

ok Im gonna ask again doesnt Calif have a minimum wage more then twice the amount of Federal law

Yes. And everyone is agreeing that this impacts the price of a Big Mac. 

The question is how much. I don't believe that labor costs are a giant determinant in the price. Land is more expensive here. Electricity is more expensive here. The taxes to the franchise owner are higher here, so he/she must earn more profit to bring home the same income--and incomes and cost of living are higher here, so the franchise owner needs more money anyway. 

There are a lot of reasons everything is expensive in California. Everything was much more expensive here than other places BEFORE the minimum wage increase occurred. The minimum wage increase is just one more factor in that calculation. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 26, 2022, 05:47:15 PM

McDonald’s is just one of 1 million examples though.

And as a general rule rising labor costs are passed along to the consumer via higher prices. Otherwise businesses would be forced to reduce their profits and of course they’re not going to do that.

This does not start the inflation wheel but it definitely makes it spin faster.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 26, 2022, 05:48:00 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on January 26, 2022, 05:22:56 PM

[img width=500 height=298.976]https://i.imgur.com/3urJuo8.png[/img]

min wage is obviously driving a cost increase, but no where near the skyrocketing hikes.

Quote

that's not true at all. assuming mcd's entire payroll is min wage (it's not) and assuming they'll want to pass along 100% of increased costs (they will, probably more like 175% if history of major corps is any judge), then the cost for their payroll to effectively double would be an average increase on products sold to be around 13%. So the big mac would go from $3.99 pre-tax (as listed on their website, i haven't eaten there in i don't know how long so no clue if its slightly different), to around $4.50.

a purdue study from a few years back (https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2015/Q3/study-raising-wages-to-15-an-hour-for-limited-service-restaurant-employees-would-raise-prices-4.3-percent.html) found it to be quite a bit less of an increase, only about 4.3% increase, or $0.17 cents to $4.16.

It's  not $10 but it's also significantly more than the 4.3% you mentioned a page ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 26, 2022, 06:05:40 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 05:43:48 PM

Yes. And everyone is agreeing that this impacts the price of a Big Mac.

The question is how much. I don't believe that labor costs are a giant determinant in the price. Land is more expensive here. Electricity is more expensive here. The taxes to the franchise owner are higher here, so he/she must earn more profit to bring home the same income--and incomes and cost of living are higher here, so the franchise owner needs more money anyway.

There are a lot of reasons everything is expensive in California. Everything was much more expensive here than other places BEFORE the minimum wage increase occurred. The minimum wage increase is just one more factor in that calculation.

I dont disagree
The question thats begging to be asked is why are various cost of sales expenses higher in California

Why are taxes higher then many other states
Why is the land more expensive then many other states
Why do utilities cost more then many other states
Why have a state minimum wage twice the federal amount

why are Californias leaders electing to do this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 06:17:44 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 26, 2022, 06:05:40 PM

I dont disagree
The question thats begging to be asked is why are various cost of sales expenses higher in California

Why are taxes higher then many other states
Why is the land more expensive then many other states
Why do utilities cost more then many other states
Why have a state minimum wage twice the federal amount

why are Californias leaders electing to do this

My theory is that a lot of things are more expensive (including gov't) because when a place is desirable to live, politicians know they can take more and more and more and people STILL want to live there. 

I put up with a lot of bullshit to live in California, because California is pretty awesome. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 26, 2022, 06:18:24 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 26, 2022, 06:05:40 PM

I dont disagree
The question thats begging to be asked is why are various cost of sales expenses higher in California

Why are taxes higher then many other states
Why is the land more expensive then many other states
Why do utilities cost more then many other states
Why have a state minimum wage twice the federal amount

why are Californias leaders electing to do this

To answer the questions, in order:

Because they don't seem to have an issue with it.

Because more people want to live there and because wages are higher. 

Not sure about utilities. Maybe something to do with the fact that infrastructure has fallen into disrepair? I have someone in my life who knows more about the ins and outs of the power business. Maybe I should check.

Because the idea of not allowing companies to pay poverty wages appeals to them. 

And it's all held up because people, for some reason, really, really, REALLY want to live there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 26, 2022, 06:20:43 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 26, 2022, 10:18:59 AM

I remember how expensive it was 30 years ago, when my wife and I were both working.

Someone at my old office hit a certain number of kids and realized her salary was the price of day care. Thus she quit. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 26, 2022, 06:35:34 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 25, 2022, 05:16:28 PM

Well, I think it's twofold.

Your house, for most people in this country, is the biggest financial decision you'll ever make that doesn't include marriage or children. Not only is it massive from a financial sense, but it's also emotional. It's about choosing who you are, where you want to be, and what sort of community you want to live in. You put down roots, you have kids (who go to school), you become a part of that community.

• When outside forces like "zoning boards" try to make changes and that means the very nature of your community might change, you can't simply decouple the emotional aspects. It's your life. Do you want to blow up friendships, do you want to force your kids into new schools in a new community, do you want to uproot exactly what you've built? No.
• When those same forces do something that will negatively affect the financial value of your asset, and you can exert political pressure to support the financial value, it's basically a no-brainer to exert that pressure to preserve it. If not only does the actions of a zoning board mean that your community will change and make you want to sell your house and move somewhere else, if the actions of that zoning board means that you're not going to get for your house what it was worth before they made their decision, you're gonna fight like hell.

NIMBY is a lot of things, but irrational isn't one of them.

It's funny because in my econ major brain, I see the strong rationality in No. 2, but scoff at the irrational part of No. 1, even if the mechanism is essentially the same. 

As you said, it's emotional, and people will leverage their wealth and power to protect their feeling. But there's such a rich sense of entitlement that as a stakeholder in a community, you deserve a really strong hand in deciding the shape of it like that. The nature of a community is ever-changing. Factors, such as zoning, likely brought it into existence and can tweak it as well. I'm sure wherever someone lives, someone way back wouldn't have been the most keen on someone like the newcomers being there, but in America there's freedom and changes and whatever else. 

And the entitlement to be free of that without giving something up strikes me as irrational in its way, even if the mechanism follows it's own type of rationality. 

(Some of this comes out of convos with a close friend. He contended his company should pay employees at a certain level, the one he was at and a high-ish one, enough to be able to afford a house in the town where the company is based. And in some ways, this is rational. But it's in an expensive place. And he wanted to be part of a certain "community." Which meant inflexibility when it came to location. And of course the people in the "community" he eventually found a place in are either happy with his spending driving up prices, if their have an appreciating asset, or unhappy becuase rising housing prices mean they'll be pushed out. Only they're the sort of folks without the financial weight to be listened to, which means they'll lose friendships, move kids because of the flows of economics and policy)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 06:40:25 PM

I wonder who today works for minimum wage and why they do so.  I read a lot of folks do, but I don't understand why.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 26, 2022, 06:43:22 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 26, 2022, 06:18:24 PM

To answer the questions, in order:

Because they don't seem to have an issue with it.

Because more people want to live there and because wages are higher.

Not sure about utilities. Maybe something to do with the fact that infrastructure has fallen into disrepair? I have someone in my life who knows more about the ins and outs of the power business. Maybe I should check.

Because the idea of not allowing companies to pay poverty wages appeals to them.

And it's all held up because people, for some reason, really, really, REALLY want to live there.

Isn't all of the "bad" of CA exactly what people would find unremarkable if it was run as a private business?  

People are flooding in and demand is sky-high?  Charge more and more.

But since it's government-run, it's evil and stupid and crazy.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 26, 2022, 06:43:39 PM

My first paying job in high school, working at a Mexican restaurant, paid the minimum wage of $3.35 at the time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 26, 2022, 06:44:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 06:40:25 PM

I wonder who today works for minimum wage and why they do so.  I read a lot of folks do, but I don't understand why.

People don't just marry other people.  They marry much of the familiar.  Scared of anything different.  Scared of anything unknown.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 26, 2022, 06:44:47 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 26, 2022, 06:43:22 PM

Isn't all of the "bad" of CA exactly what people would find unremarkable if it was run as a private business? 

People are flooding in and demand is sky-high?  Charge more and more.

But since it's government-run, it's evil and stupid and crazy. 

Are you suggesting that it's appropriate for governments to operate as For-Profit entities?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 26, 2022, 06:46:25 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 26, 2022, 06:43:39 PM

My first paying job in high school, working at a Mexican restaurant, paid the minimum wage of $3.35 at the time.

Mine was working for my dad at $4.35/hr, doing fire and flood restoration.
The first 3 days I ever officially worked, I worked 39 hours in 3 days, crawling under carpet to pull all the wet padding, demolition, water suction, etc. 

It was a great motivator to NOT do that kind of thing for the rest of my life.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 26, 2022, 06:48:12 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 26, 2022, 06:44:47 PM

Are you suggesting that it's appropriate for governments to operate as For-Profit entities?

I'm suggesting many here get hard-ons for private businesses operating a certain way and bitch about a gov't entity doing the same thing.  

Reminds me of Obama having accomplished the top 8 things Newt Gingrich claimed he'd do as president early in on the primaries.  He did all these things a Republican wanted to do, but he's still awful.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 26, 2022, 06:49:10 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 06:40:25 PM

I wonder who today works for minimum wage and why they do so.  I read a lot of folks do, but I don't understand why.

Because they want to make money. I worked for a number of years for minimum wage while I was going to school so I had some spending money since I had no other source to get spending money. Seems pretty simple to me, if you want to earn some money you need to work and the value of your pay is related to the value you bring to the business.

Not working at all- and living off others who are in some form, is still lazy.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 26, 2022, 06:50:20 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 26, 2022, 06:48:12 PM

I'm suggesting many here get hard-ons for private businesses operating a certain way and bitch about a gov't entity doing the same thing. 

Reminds me of Obama having accomplished the top 8 things Newt Gingrich claimed he'd do as president early in on the primaries.  He did all these things a Republican wanted to do, but he's still awful. 

😂😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 26, 2022, 06:51:16 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 06:40:25 PM

I wonder who today works for minimum wage and why they do so.  I read a lot of folks do, but I don't understand why.

didnt you ever have a part time job while in high school or college

the minimum wage laws have decreased part time job opportunities for the college bound kid

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 06:51:29 PM

I see ads for routine jobs frequently that pay $11-12-13 and more, I see no reason to work for $7.25.  Just about everywhere I go has a hiring sign outside, and it's not for MW.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 06:52:28 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 26, 2022, 06:43:22 PM

Isn't all of the "bad" of CA exactly what people would find unremarkable if it was run as a private business? 

People are flooding in and demand is sky-high?  Charge more and more.

But since it's government-run, it's evil and stupid and crazy. 

Quote from: utee94 on January 26, 2022, 06:44:47 PM

Are you suggesting that it's appropriate for governments to operate as For-Profit entities?

I wouldn't say that's appropriate, but I'd say it's probably natural.

• How do politicians get reelected? By finding ways to spend other peoples' money and then taking credit for the spending.
• How do politicians ensure they get reelected? By getting as much of other peoples' money as they can. 
• What do politicians do if they realize that people are going to stay in a place even if they raise taxes? They raise taxes as much as the market will bear. 

The only thing that makes it inappropriate is that they can throw someone in a cage for not paying what they charge. 


Hence what OAM suggests is appropriate in a free market, but this is anything but a free market. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 06:52:51 PM

My kids in 2006 got a job at Panera, the usual stuff, and their pay started THEN at over MW, it was $8 and something, in Cincy.  I don't understand why a person would take MW when so many jobs are available at 50% more than that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 26, 2022, 06:54:44 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 06:52:51 PM

My kids in 2006 got a job at Panera, the usual stuff, and their pay started THEN at over MW, it was $8 and something, in Cincy.  I don't understand why a person would take MW when so many jobs are available at 50% more than that.

Because I like inflation calculators, that's over $11 per hour now

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 06:55:20 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 06:51:29 PM

I see ads for routine jobs frequently that pay $11-12-13 and more, I see no reason to work for $7.25.  Just about everywhere I go has a hiring sign outside, and it's not for MW.

You live in downtown Atlanta, dude... They HAVE to pay that because nobody will work there for less, because it's downtown Atlanta and you need more to live. It's the market at work.

Looking at a random Georgia map, let's pick the town of Godfrey, GA. I'll bet that there's a lot more MW or just above workers there, because the cost of living is lower and so working for less is worth it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 26, 2022, 06:58:17 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 06:55:20 PM

You live in downtown Atlanta, dude... They HAVE to pay that because nobody will work there for less, because it's downtown Atlanta and you need more to live. It's the market at work.

Looking at a random Georgia map, let's pick the town of Godfrey, GA. I'll bet that there's a lot more MW or just above workers there, because the cost of living is lower and so working for less is worth it.

A lot of rural GA is dying.  The towns where my parents grew up (and dozens around them) have the huge courthouse, the empty downtown strip, and 1 fast food joint.  

I'd be surprised anyone lives in any of them in 50 years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 26, 2022, 07:00:37 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 06:52:28 PM

I wouldn't say that's appropriate, but I'd say it's probably natural.

• How do politicians get reelected? By finding ways to spend other peoples' money and then taking credit for the spending.
• How do politicians ensure they get reelected? By getting as much of other peoples' money as they can.
• What do politicians do if they realize that people are going to stay in a place even if they raise taxes? They raise taxes as much as the market will bear. 

I feel like we're forgetting the No. 1 way they get elected: By promising to get more money in your pocket by cutting taxes. There are very, very few places where cutting taxes is not the staple of most political campaigns (well, some promise to cut your taxes while raising their taxes).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 26, 2022, 07:02:35 PM

Why doesn't West Virginia or Kentucky or somewhere just not have taxes and see how that turns out?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 07:03:37 PM

BTW when my wife's office had to give their medical assistant [MA] a raise recently, it's because starting wages at Target were $1/hr more than she was making as an MA. Now, an MA is not exactly the top rung in a doctor's office... It's pretty much the bottom. But it's still something that you have to go to school and be certified to do. And retail was making more. 

This to an extent is one of the things 320 is talking about. When you raise the MW, it means that people who were making somewhere between the previous MW and the new one now want to be as far above the new MW as they were before. Which means that their wages need to go up. Then, people who were making more than the new MW want to make more than the low-skill workers whose salary just became equal to theirs. Which pushes THEIR wages up. 

This is somewhat lessened by the point that CD is talking about. An increase to the MW in Southern California or in Downtown Atlanta doesn't affect very much, because almost NOBODY is working for anywhere near that wage anyway. But if it happens in, say, Alabama, then it creates a significant rising pressure on everyone else's wages because due to cost of living and available job opportunities, a LOT more people are working at or close to the MW. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 07:09:53 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 26, 2022, 07:02:35 PM

Why doesn't West Virginia or Kentucky or somewhere just not have taxes and see how that turns out?

You absolutely CAN see how that turns out.

Why do so many states offer sweetheart deals to corporations to basically offer near-zero taxes to move businesses in? Because they know that it'll move businesses in, those businesses will employ people, and then they'll get tax revenue from individual income tax, sales tax, individual property tax, etc.

People lament this, but it's absolutely a winning strategy to try to get corporations to bring jobs in, not charge the corporations any [or very little] taxes, because you can make it up from their employees. 

I wouldn't have ended up in California if I weren't an electrical engineer and my first job was in a place aptly named Silicon Valley. And I won't stay if the jobs dry up, regardless of how much I like things here. 

It's the reason rural GA is dying. No jobs. Why are there no jobs? Because nobody wants to live there. Why doesn't anyone want to live there? Because there are no jobs! 

People follow economic opportunity. Governments then act as parasites on economic opportunity because they know as long as they just flock the sheep, and not slaughter it, it'll keep producing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 26, 2022, 07:13:50 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 26, 2022, 07:00:37 PM

I feel like we're forgetting the No. 1 way they get elected: By promising to get more money in your pocket by cutting taxes. There are very, very few places where cutting taxes is not the staple of most political campaigns (well, some promise to cut your taxes while raising their taxes).

theres a lot more things the voters want in addition to lower taxes like lower inflation, crime reduction, secure borders, and many others

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 26, 2022, 07:18:11 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 07:09:53 PM

You absolutely CAN see how that turns out.

Why do so many states offer sweetheart deals to corporations to basically offer near-zero taxes to move businesses in? Because they know that it'll move businesses in, those businesses will employ people, and then they'll get tax revenue from individual income tax, sales tax, individual property tax, etc.

People lament this, but it's absolutely a winning strategy to try to get corporations to bring jobs in, not charge the corporations any [or very little] taxes, because you can make it up from their employees.

I wouldn't have ended up in California if I weren't an electrical engineer and my first job was in a place aptly named Silicon Valley. And I won't stay if the jobs dry up, regardless of how much I like things here.

It's the reason rural GA is dying. No jobs. Why are there no jobs? Because nobody wants to live there. Why doesn't anyone want to live there? Because there are no jobs!

People follow economic opportunity. Governments then act as parasites on economic opportunity because they know as long as they just flock the sheep, and not slaughter it, it'll keep producing.

This. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 07:23:13 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 26, 2022, 07:00:37 PM

I feel like we're forgetting the No. 1 way they get elected: By promising to get more money in your pocket by cutting taxes. There are very, very few places where cutting taxes is not the staple of most political campaigns (well, some promise to cut your taxes while raising their taxes).

Disagree... Some campaign on lower taxes. Others campaign on more services. They may be different candidates campaigning to different voters with each pitch, but it's not like every politician is promising lower taxes. 

And if they can get the two for one, of campaigning on spending money on Peter while robbing Paul to pay for it, they always get the vote of Peter. 

And the others can always promise to slash the budget by enormous amounts just by fixing waste, fraud, and abuse, even though that appears to be little more than a rounding error in most budgets.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 26, 2022, 07:26:36 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 07:09:53 PM

You absolutely CAN see how that turns out.

Why do so many states offer sweetheart deals to corporations to basically offer near-zero taxes to move businesses in? Because they know that it'll move businesses in, those businesses will employ people, and then they'll get tax revenue from individual income tax, sales tax, individual property tax, etc.

People lament this, but it's absolutely a winning strategy to try to get corporations to bring jobs in, not charge the corporations any [or very little] taxes, because you can make it up from their employees.

I wouldn't have ended up in California if I weren't an electrical engineer and my first job was in a place aptly named Silicon Valley. And I won't stay if the jobs dry up, regardless of how much I like things here.

It's the reason rural GA is dying. No jobs. Why are there no jobs? Because nobody wants to live there. Why doesn't anyone want to live there? Because there are no jobs!

People follow economic opportunity. Governments then act as parasites on economic opportunity because they know as long as they just flock the sheep, and not slaughter it, it'll keep producing.

Somebody needed to tell NYC this when they balked at Amazon putting a major office there

threw away 5,000 potential jobs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 07:50:22 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 26, 2022, 07:26:36 PM

Somebody needed to tell NYC this when they balked at Amazon putting a major office there

threw away 5,000 potential jobs

There's a degree to which already-high-value locations don't need to kowtow to corporations with corporate welfare... 

Kinda like the reason that you'll never find a Louis Vuitton bag "on sale". They get full price because they're LV.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 26, 2022, 08:15:22 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 07:50:22 PM

There's a degree to which already-high-value locations don't need to kowtow to corporations with corporate welfare...

Kinda like the reason that you'll never find a Louis Vuitton bag "on sale". They get full price because they're LV.

so you are saying NYC doesnt need 5,000 more tax payers?

they have enough money?

Im not sure companies are lining up to put their offices in NYC

course maybe they I have no idea

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 08:20:13 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 26, 2022, 08:15:22 PM

so you are saying NYC doesnt need 5,000 more tax payers?

they have enough money?

Im not sure companies are lining up to put their offices in NYC

course maybe they I have no idea

More along the lines that once you get a reputation for corporate welfare, everyone's got their hands out. And you can hurt yourself. 

That doesn't mean that high-value locations don't do it... They do. Big cities, as we covered in this thread, are MORE than happy to open their pocketbooks to build stadiums for billionaires because they fear them leaving. And big cities engage in garden-variety corporate welfare too. 

But NYC is the financial center of the universe. Why should they lower themselves by kowtowing to Amazon? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 08:27:35 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 07:50:22 PM

There's a degree to which already-high-value locations don't need to kowtow to corporations with corporate welfare...

Kinda like the reason that you'll never find a Louis Vuitton bag "on sale". They get full price because they're LV.

Yup. Corporate welfare is one of the biggest problems this country has. 

Not convinced Amazon really even wanted it's HQ2 in NYC anyway. Not a coincidence they settled on a suburb 15 minutes away from Washington DC nor that Bezos bought the Washington Post nor that Amazon has billion dollar contracts with the CIA. Bezos is a slime ball of the highest order and the reason he chose Arlington is so that he can be close to the levers of power and spend a fortune lobbying the federal government and currying favor.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 08:28:23 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 26, 2022, 08:15:22 PM

so you are saying NYC doesnt need 5,000 more tax payers?

they have enough money?

Im not sure companies are lining up to put their offices in NYC

course maybe they I have no idea

it's New York City. Not Detroit. They don't have to make corporate welfare giveaway deals or beg businesses to come. They will come.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 08:28:53 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 08:20:13 PM

More along the lines that once you get a reputation for corporate welfare, everyone's got their hands out. And you can hurt yourself.

That doesn't mean that high-value locations don't do it... They do. Big cities, as we covered in this thread, are MORE than happy to open their pocketbooks to build stadiums for billionaires because they fear them leaving. And big cities engage in garden-variety corporate welfare too.

But NYC is the financial center of the universe. Why should they lower themselves by kowtowing to Amazon?

this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 26, 2022, 08:29:47 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 08:20:13 PM

More along the lines that once you get a reputation for corporate welfare, everyone's got their hands out. And you can hurt yourself.

That doesn't mean that high-value locations don't do it... They do. Big cities, as we covered in this thread, are MORE than happy to open their pocketbooks to build stadiums for billionaires because they fear them leaving. And big cities engage in garden-variety corporate welfare too.

But NYC is the financial center of the universe. Why should they lower themselves by kowtowing to Amazon?

I looked it up and it was 25,000 jobs not 5,000 

but Virginia and Tennessee got it instead and they say a big thank you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 26, 2022, 08:52:03 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 26, 2022, 07:26:36 PM

Somebody needed to tell NYC this when they balked at Amazon putting a major office there

threw away 5,000 potential jobs

I mean, they're not thrown away, really. They don't exist in the NYC metro, and instead exist in the D.C. Metro. 

Like, 5,000 Americans, somewhere, are employed (I'm unclear if that includes the building of the place, but that's another matter). NYC could've shelled out some taxpayer money as an incentive, and then moved tax revenue from one place to another. If it was in a vacuum, NYC would've paid more than the 13.5 percent cost of living difference to make Amazon more than whole, but chances are Arlington paid something too, so the difference isn't that stark. 

There's an interesting game there. In a vaccum, Amazon is taking that to rural Alabama, or something, as you can employ people more cheaply there. But the talent they want is likely not amenable to Gadsden, Alabama (snobs), so they have to go somewhere that's gonna be more pricey. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 26, 2022, 08:54:12 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 08:20:13 PM

But NYC is the financial center of the universe. Why should they lower themselves by kowtowing to Amazon?

The financial center of the universe isn't a place, it's online.  It's everywhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 08:55:55 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 26, 2022, 08:54:12 PM

The financial center of the universe isn't a place, it's online.  It's everywhere.

NYC is the finance mecca of the world.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 26, 2022, 08:55:59 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 26, 2022, 07:13:50 PM

theres a lot more things the voters want in addition to lower taxes like lower inflation, crime reduction, secure borders, and many others

Elected politicians have precious little to do with inflation, they just take credit and lie about that. 

They have a modest amount to do with crime reduction, though even that link is weak at best (they are good at spending up to make people feel like crime is down) 

Most pols have little or nothing to do with the border. But many will act like they do, as telling people what they want is key to getting elected. 

But those do make good slogans, that's for sure. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 26, 2022, 08:58:29 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 06:52:28 PM

Hence what OAM suggests is appropriate in a free market, but this is anything but a free market.

That's the point of asking the rhetorical and leading question... 

Quote

Are you suggesting that it's appropriate for governments to operate as For-Profit entities?

:)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 26, 2022, 09:01:34 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 07:03:37 PM

BTW when my wife's office had to give their medical assistant [MA] a raise recently, it's because starting wages at Target were $1/hr more than she was making as an MA. Now, an MA is not exactly the top rung in a doctor's office... It's pretty much the bottom. But it's still something that you have to go to school and be certified to do. And retail was making more.

So this woman went to school for and had to get certified for a job that paid a hair over $29k a year in not only SOCal, but a pretty affluent part of So-Cal?

Something isn't totally adding up here. Either that, or your wife's office kinda deserved to lose her. Like, even if Target is only paying $24k a year, or sub-sustenance, she's probably looking to leave. She's probably not earning much more than the janitor at that salary. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 09:26:33 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 26, 2022, 08:55:59 PM

Elected politicians have precious little to do with inflation, they just take credit and lie about that.

this just isn't true. policies they enact both domestic and abroad can affect inflation both directly and indirectly.

For example- the current senile diaper wearing President Dipshits feud with Saudi ruler MbS has been a major driving factor in inflation. Trump kissed MbS ass- first state visit he made as President was to the Saudis. Gave them a huge weapons deal on the visit. Trump stroked MbS ego and played the guy like a fiddle- getting him to ramp up oil production when we wanted and then getting him to slash production when we wanted. President shits his diapers still refuses to speak to or even acknoweldge MbS- MbS is a petty man who doesn't take that insult kindly- which is why MbS had been putting the screws to him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 26, 2022, 09:36:52 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 26, 2022, 08:55:59 PM

Elected politicians have precious little to do with inflation, they just take credit and lie about that.

They have a modest amount to do with crime reduction, though even that link is weak at best (they are good at spending up to make people feel like crime is down)

Most pols have little or nothing to do with the border. But many will act like they do, as telling people what they want is key to getting elected.

But those do make good slogans, that's for sure.

So wrong.  Too obvious to bother.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 26, 2022, 09:46:23 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 26, 2022, 09:36:52 PM

So wrong.  Too obvious to bother. 

All three, or one in particular?

I'll admit, I'm impressed that my jaded view of politicians as ineffective and overselling what they can do is met with such resistance. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 26, 2022, 09:58:57 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 26, 2022, 09:46:23 PM

All three, or one in particular?

I'll admit, I'm impressed that my jaded view of politicians as ineffective and overselling what they can do is met with such resistance.

Oh I totally agree with you that politicians get far too much blame and far too much credit.

but inflation is heavily influenced by government spending, tax policies, and monetary policy. Those things are controlled by politicians.

as for crime, over the medium or longer-term prosecution and sentencing have a huge impact in those things are controlled to a high degree by politicians. Just look at Oregon’s governor looking to give clemency to many many felons. And so much crime today is turning out to be repeat offenders or people who are awaiting court dates or people who were released early.

lastly, what’s going on at the border is highly influenced by policies and laws which again I constructed by politicians. 

now the part that you said about getting too much blame or blaming someone else, and taking too much credit, and having slogans etc.


You couldn’t be more correct.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 26, 2022, 10:29:28 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 26, 2022, 09:58:57 PM

Oh I totally agree with you that politicians get far too much blame and far too much credit.

but inflation is heavily influenced by government spending, tax policies, and monetary policy. Those things are controlled by politicians.

as for crime, over the medium or longer-term prosecution and sentencing have a huge impact in those things are controlled to a high degree by politicians. Just look at Oregon’s governor looking to give clemency to many many felons. And so much crime today is turning out to be repeat offenders or people who are awaiting court dates or people who were released early.

lastly, what’s going on at the border is highly influenced by policies and laws which again I constructed by politicians. 

now the part that you said about getting too much blame or blaming someone else, and taking too much credit, and having slogans etc.


You couldn’t be more correct.

I noted the first part because inflation is heavily tied to interest rates, and those are not in the hands of our elected officials. I also put a lot of weight in the workings of the massive free market economy and how it ebbs and flows. I put much more weight on those to factors than the work of squabbling pols.

I'll not dig too much into the second one. I've not seen a ton of highly conclusive evidence on the subject. But I've seen a lot of individual stories. Other folks put a lot more stock into those. It's of course two issues, one of due process (which I have more thoughts about) and of long sentences, which comes down to the math of how many people who wouldn't commit more crimes serve how many more years to ensure some people won't commit the specific crimes they commit (setting aside some reality they'll likely still commit crimes no matter when they're released). On the second one, I have less faith than some, mostly because some have A LOT of faith, but am not gung ho against the idea. The world of sentencing is also super odd and niche, and I only have a cursory sense of its structure. 

For the border, I said most do not affect that. And that's true. It's a national issue, and that means it's in the hands of a pretty small set of elected politicians and a pretty small subset of the politicians I vote for. 

I should say this, my main point was that pols will promise me many things. And I think they will promise much, much more than they can deliver. They'll also promise results in areas they have almost no handle on. It is their way. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 10:48:29 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 26, 2022, 09:58:57 PM

but inflation is heavily influenced by government spending, tax policies, and monetary policy. Those things are controlled by politicians.

this. all day long. foreign policy has an affect on inflation as well. two single biggest factors in inflation right now are higher prices for cars and used cars and higher prices for oil. probably a f***king stupid idea for US politicians to adapt a policy of- hey let's encourage and allow American companies to ship millions of jobs and 90% of our supply chain over to China- hey- who knew it would be hard as f**k to get American designed & engineered but built in China computer chips that go into the cars you build in America if there was a worldwide pandemic that disrupted the entire world! Oh, and it's also a really dumb idea to get into a pissing contest with the leader of Saudi Arabia- when you should be on all fours sucking him off and kissing the guys ass to ramp up production which would bring down the cost of oil and help ease inflation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 26, 2022, 10:50:30 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 26, 2022, 10:29:28 PM

I noted the first part because inflation is heavily tied to interest rates, and those are not in the hands of our elected officials. I also put a lot of weight in the workings of the massive free market economy and how it ebbs and flows. I put much more weight on those to factors than the work of squabbling pols.

I'll not dig too much into the second one. I've not seen a ton of highly conclusive evidence on the subject. But I've seen a lot of individual stories. Other folks put a lot more stock into those. It's of course two issues, one of due process (which I have more thoughts about) and of long sentences, which comes down to the math of how many people who wouldn't commit more crimes serve how many more years to ensure some people won't commit the specific crimes they commit (setting aside some reality they'll likely still commit crimes no matter when they're released). On the second one, I have less faith than some, mostly because some have A LOT of faith, but am not gung ho against the idea. The world of sentencing is also super odd and niche, and I only have a cursory sense of its structure.

For the border, I said most do not affect that. And that's true. It's a national issue, and that means it's in the hands of a pretty small set of elected politicians and a pretty small subset of the politicians I vote for.

I should say this, my main point was that pols will promise me many things. And I think they will promise much, much more than they can deliver. They'll also promise results in areas they have almost no handle on. It is their way.

That’s pretty well said. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 10:54:10 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 26, 2022, 10:29:28 PM

I noted the first part because inflation is heavily tied to interest rates, and those are not in the hands of our elected officials. I also put a lot of weight in the workings of the massive free market economy and how it ebbs and flows. I put much more weight on those to factors than the work of squabbling pols.

Not exactly accurate. The President appoints the fed chair and vice chair and the board of governors, and the Senate approves them. They are appointed by the President- who is an elected official- and they are confirmed by the Senate- a body of elected officials.

The President can also fire the fed chair- so when the guy who has the power to give you the job and who also has the power to take it away from you- yeah that guy probably holds considerable sway over what you do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 11:20:11 PM

So, turns out the "270 doctors sign letter demanding Spotify condemn/censor Joe Rogan!" bs the media/cable news was spewing non-stop 24/7 about a week back- yeah...only 87 of the people who signed the letter/petition whatever you want to call it were actually medical doctors. About 100 were Ph.D.s or Ph.D. candidates and the rest nurse practitioners, veterinarians, dentists, psychologists, physicians' assistants, medical students, couple of engineers, and even a podcast host. So real headline should've been....270 people sign a letter demanding Spotify condemn/censor Joe Rogan, and only 87 of them were actual medical doctors. And they wonder why they are losing their audience and subscribers in record numbers. Lol.

Also...gigantic LOL @ Neil Young. Neil Young at his advanced age had a true get off my lawn moment- and demanded Spotify either remove Joe Rogan's podcast or his music from their platform. Sure thing Neil, they'll remove the biggest podcast on planet earth that has been a ratings and subscriber bonanza for them ASAP, just to keep your shitty music that no one listens to on their platform. :043:

Spotify removed all of Young's music within hours. They said bye Felicia, don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.

Rogan's podcast has been a smashing success for Spotify, it's the biggest podcast in the entire world and the episodes average around 11-12 million daily views per episode- and countless hundreds of millions more downloads per month. Vast majority of listeners/downloaders which are in that prized 18-49 demo. Neil Young probably got 500 streams a day in that key demo- if that.

By the way, it's obvious to me now why CNN has had this weird hate-boner for Rogan. Jealousy, envy, and fear at it's finest. His show gets like 12-13 times the daily viewership of CNN's top rated show. And his show is 2-3 hours long. Theirs is an hour. CNN has lost 90% of it's ad revenue in the key 18-49 demo. They are f**ked and it's guys like Rogan that are kicking their asses. TV is honestly dead, only boomers watch it- the key 18-49 demo has completely abandoned tv- only thing anyone that isn't a boomer watches these days on tv is live sports.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 26, 2022, 11:25:33 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 26, 2022, 10:50:30 PM

That’s pretty well said. 

Blind squirrels, stopped clocks and such

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 26, 2022, 11:28:20 PM

So its to Spotify's credit that they didnt bow to this pressure

Isnt this kind of a turn around from the normal actions by social media

Is Spotify truly this fair or is it just money

would they have done the same thing if the party involved wasnt a big money maker

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 26, 2022, 11:48:37 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 26, 2022, 11:28:20 PM

So its to Spotify's credit that they didnt bow to this pressure

Isnt this kind of a turn around from the normal actions by social media

Is Spotify truly this fair or is it just money

would they have done the same thing if the party involved wasnt a big money maker

$$$$$$$$$$$$$


(And I assume the thought that they’re so entrenched, they assume it’ll blow over. Which it will. That’s the great secret of modern corporate comms)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 26, 2022, 11:55:52 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 26, 2022, 11:28:20 PM

So its to Spotify's credit that they didnt bow to this pressure

Isnt this kind of a turn around from the normal actions by social media

Is Spotify truly this fair or is it just money

would they have done the same thing if the party involved wasnt a big money maker

yeah, it's about the money. isn't it always about the money? Joe Rogan has been a f***king cash cow and giant smashing success for them. they ain't ever getting rid of him. his Spotify deal is up in I think a year and a half- and his next deal is going to be stupid big. wouldn't shock me if it was like $250-300 million.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 27, 2022, 12:47:38 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 06:47:12 AM

We had a year more or less where we couldn't spend on much.  Then government have many of us money, I even got one check.  So, folks are flush with cash for a change, and what to do with it?  Travel is one thing.  Dining out, entertainment, stuff from Amazon, buy buy buy.  Rental car agencies sold off their fleets back in April 2020 saturating the used car market and prices came down, now they are buying back.  Rental car prices are way up and the cars are crappy, one valet told me one came in with a space saver spare on the car, they said it was their last vehicle.  Oil prices are impacted by global events and OPEC production as well as demand.

If Russia does attack Ukraine, we'll see higher oil prices as Europe tries to pretend to have sanctions on Russia, which they can't really effect very well at all.  I expect more asymmetry in said attack that a direct invasion, but obviously I don't know.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 27, 2022, 07:35:26 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 26, 2022, 08:55:59 PM

Elected politicians have precious little to do with inflation, they just take credit and lie about that.

They have a modest amount to do with crime reduction, though even that link is weak at best (they are good at spending up to make people feel like crime is down)

Most pols have little or nothing to do with the border. But many will act like they do, as telling people what they want is key to getting elected.

But those do make good slogans, that's for sure.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2022/01/27/5-takeaways-gretchen-whitmer-state-state-tax-cuts-in-person-classes-election/9232674002/

here you go bay area. This article proves you both wrong and right.

here’s a person who sounds like a staunch Republican, after being a very left leaning liberal up to this point. She has changed her tune and almost everything as she was a hard lockdown, mandate, mask governor and get the kids out of the schools.  She is talking about unity and collaboration whereas before that was the opposite of her approach.  She is taking credit for a budget surplus which obviously came from government stimulus money.

Is she changing her tune because she’s learned something? Or is she just running as far away from a very unpopular president who has very unpopular policies?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 07:37:33 AM

She's running for reelection.  She is promising this and that.  That doesn't mean she can implement this and that.  But it sounds good, she thinks.

Nice slogans though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 27, 2022, 07:39:19 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 07:37:33 AM

She's running for reelection.  She is promising this and that.  That doesn't mean she can implement this and that.  But it sounds good, she thinks.

Nice slogans though.

So true.  That’s the part where Bay Area badger is correct.
But her impact on businesses in that state and people leaving that state, as well as unemployment was very direct and obvious, and it wasn’t good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 07:40:47 AM

I think folks were leaving Michigan in numbers before her, and after she's gone that will continue.  Maybe she had some slight impact on rates, I don't know.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 27, 2022, 07:45:17 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 07:40:47 AM

I think folks were leaving Michigan in numbers before her, and after she's gone that will continue.  Maybe she had some slight impact on rates, I don't know.

Well having live there for my whole adult life until 2016, and having all of my friends, family, and former business associates there, I can assure you that failing businesses due to strict lockdowns and unpopular governance has led to large numbers of people either leaving that state or planning to meet that state. Ask MDot.  He is very well connected in Michigan as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 07:50:14 AM

Has the rate increased?  That's my point.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 27, 2022, 07:52:46 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 07:50:14 AM

Has the rate increased?  That's my point.

Steady growth, consistently for many years. Now three years of decline.

(https://i.imgur.com/AZoYU6N.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 27, 2022, 08:20:25 AM

Ehh, that's stagnance, whether it's a + or -

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 08:26:03 AM

Quote from: rolltidefan on January 26, 2022, 04:57:47 PM

fwiw, the #'s i posted were the burger only, not the meal, and the % would hold either way.

and according to this, average price in us is $5.17. https://mc-menu.com/mcdonalds-menu-prices/61-big-mac.html

Those are local prices here in FL.

Who gets the burger only?

Nobody.

In two years, those meals will be $15.00 - unless the whole system goes robotic.

Robots don't make $15/hour.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 08:33:06 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 06:55:20 PM

You live in downtown Atlanta, dude... They HAVE to pay that because nobody will work there for less, because it's downtown Atlanta and you need more to live. It's the market at work.

Looking at a random Georgia map, let's pick the town of Godfrey, GA. I'll bet that there's a lot more MW or just above workers there, because the cost of living is lower and so working for less is worth it.

Well, I don't live in downtown ATL. 

All the joints near here are offering $15 and up, with tuition and other benefits.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 08:36:06 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 08:20:13 PM

More along the lines that once you get a reputation for corporate welfare, everyone's got their hands out. And you can hurt yourself.

That doesn't mean that high-value locations don't do it... They do. Big cities, as we covered in this thread, are MORE than happy to open their pocketbooks to build stadiums for billionaires because they fear them leaving. And big cities engage in garden-variety corporate welfare too.

But NYC is the financial center of the universe. Why should they lower themselves by kowtowing to Amazon?

For now, it is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 08:38:58 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 26, 2022, 09:01:34 PM

So this woman went to school for and had to get certified for a job that paid a hair over $29k a year in not only SOCal, but a pretty affluent part of So-Cal?

Something isn't totally adding up here. Either that, or your wife's office kinda deserved to lose her. Like, even if Target is only paying $24k a year, or sub-sustenance, she's probably looking to leave. She's probably not earning much more than the janitor at that salary.

Janitor?

Those are referred to as "building engineers" now. Grr...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 27, 2022, 08:39:28 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TBnwh7U1AU

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 08:48:08 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 27, 2022, 08:20:25 AM

Ehh, that's stagnance, whether it's a + or -

(https://i.imgur.com/3DjHZMn.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/C1mJqoU.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 27, 2022, 08:54:22 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 08:26:03 AM

Those are local prices here in FL.

Who gets the burger only?

Nobody.

In two years, those meals will be $15.00 - unless the whole system goes robotic.

Robots don't make $15/hour.

Maybe people will stop eating McDonalds. We can only dream.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 08:58:31 AM

I doubt people stop eating fast food, or sodas, or desserts, and whatever else is cheap, fast, and reasonably tasty.

Fat, sugar, salt, caffeine, alcohol, the five major food groups.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 27, 2022, 09:03:24 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 08:38:58 AM

Janitor?

Those are referred to as "building engineers" now. Grr...

Back when I did that work, I referred to it as “mop jockey,” though I had to outsource some things to environmental services when they were above my pay grade.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 09:09:14 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 27, 2022, 08:54:22 AM

Maybe people will stop eating McDonalds. We can only dream.

Fat chance...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 09:12:33 AM

We have a "building engineer" now, hired a couple years back.  He's basically someone who fixes minor stuff and calls in the pros when he can't.    We also have a janitor, a short Mexican dude who works his A off.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 09:14:19 AM

I was looking through the "junk drawer" this morning and came across the menu for our local haunt we like to frequent.

In May 2020, when we first moved here, the burger was $8.99. 

Fast-forward to now, and it is $12.49. Crazy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on January 27, 2022, 09:22:44 AM

I wonder if someone is trying to ween the US off of meat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 09:24:48 AM

Cows fart, man.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 27, 2022, 09:25:17 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 08:48:08 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/3DjHZMn.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/C1mJqoU.png)

There’s a joke I’ll sidestep and just say that as an economics major, it makes perfect sense.

Those places are warm and have big cities. People should go there. I would be interested in a historical look at people‘s mobility and how that was impacted by financial means, though it might come out in the wash.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 27, 2022, 09:25:44 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on January 27, 2022, 09:22:44 AM

I wonder if someone is trying to ween the US off of meat.

Well if they are, they'll be going up against the Beef Council.  Those guys don't mess around, so good luck with that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 27, 2022, 09:26:19 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 08:26:03 AM

Those are local prices here in FL.

Who gets the burger only?

Nobody.

In two years, those meals will be $15.00 - unless the whole system goes robotic.

Robots don't make $15/hour.

I admit to not knowing the exact workings of the back of a McDonald’s kitchen, but if any restaurant could automate, it would probably start with them?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 27, 2022, 09:28:00 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 08:48:08 AM

[img width=499.988 height=325.995]https://i.imgur.com/3DjHZMn.png[/img]

[img width=499.988 height=326.991]https://i.imgur.com/C1mJqoU.png[/img]

My campaign is clearly failing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 09:33:33 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 27, 2022, 09:25:17 AM

There’s a joke I’ll sidestep and just say that as an economics major, it makes perfect sense.

Those places are warm and have big cities. People should go there. I would be interested in a historical look at people‘s mobility and how that was impacted by financial means, though it might come out in the wash.

And they have no state income tax. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 27, 2022, 09:34:11 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 27, 2022, 09:26:19 AM

I admit to not knowing the exact workings of the back of a McDonald’s kitchen, but if any restaurant could automate, it would probably start with them?

Did you see the robot hamburger video I posted?  That machine is most likely cost-prohibitive currently for a place like McDonald's, but it won't be forever.  And the horizon is probably less than a decade before it's a realistic option.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 27, 2022, 09:34:46 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 09:33:33 AM

And they have no state income tax.

You're doing a bad job of selling people on NOT moving to Florida and Texas...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 09:36:52 AM

I was around North Port this past week, new developments are going in everywhere.  I sense land prices there are relatively cheap as compared with much of developed Florida, and there is a lot of it still.  The developments look cookie cutter, some entrance and then houses packed together rather tightly, a lot of landscaping on the main road and often a gated entrance.  It has grown a lot in two years since the Braves moved there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 27, 2022, 10:25:54 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 26, 2022, 05:47:15 PM

McDonald’s is just one of 1 million examples though.

And as a general rule rising labor costs are passed along to the consumer via higher prices. Otherwise businesses would be forced to reduce their profits and of course they’re not going to do that.

This does not start the inflation wheel but it definitely makes it spin faster.

no one disputes that. but it's disingenuous at best to suggest prices will more than double in price when wages go up. wages are never 100% of expenses and rarely more than 30%.

and i 100% believe the cost will almost entirely be passed on to consumers, if not more. hell, i've seen first hand "costs" that a business had passed on to consumers. bought some products just a couple weeks ago and they added a surcharge to it for shipping delays, which didn't even cost them anything. but because they were inconvenienced, their customers had to pay extra.

but increasing payroll will not lead to exorbitant prices.

Quote from: utee94 on January 26, 2022, 05:48:00 PM

It's  not $10 but it's also significantly more than the 4.3% you mentioned a page ago.

agreed, but that wasn't my suggestion. that was a purdue university study, as link previously. they've obviously done a lot more research on it that you or i, but i still find that hard to believe.
i suggested somewhere around 13%, which would roughly be the % increase in total costs if you doubled salaries and benefits (based on their latest financials), which would 100% be passed on to customers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 27, 2022, 10:28:59 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 08:26:03 AM

Those are local prices here in FL.

Who gets the burger only?

Nobody.

In two years, those meals will be $15.00 - unless the whole system goes robotic.

Robots don't make $15/hour.

doesn't matter the meal/burger/whatever. choose the nugget meal, or cherry pie.

cost will go up from what they are now, but not enough to throw the system haywire.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 27, 2022, 10:30:16 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 09:36:52 AM

I was around North Port this past week, new developments are going in everywhere.  I sense land prices there are relatively cheap as compared with much of developed Florida, and there is a lot of it still.  The developments look cookie cutter, some entrance and then houses packed together rather tightly, a lot of landscaping on the main road and often a gated entrance.  It has grown a lot in two years since the Braves moved there.

Spot in CD.  And the prices in the more developed areas for land are outrageous.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on January 27, 2022, 10:31:25 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 26, 2022, 05:09:23 PM

Oh come on man, roadtrips to Bakersfield are a downright pilgrimage!




(for fans of Buck Owens and Dwight Yoakum...)

or the Rolling Stones

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 27, 2022, 10:32:33 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on January 27, 2022, 10:31:25 AM

or the Rolling Stones

Mind reader!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 27, 2022, 10:34:04 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 27, 2022, 09:25:44 AM

Well if they are, they'll be going up against the Beef Council.  Those guys don't mess around, so good luck with that.

Yeah, but they ain't no egg lobby. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 10:40:37 AM

Quote from: rolltidefan on January 27, 2022, 10:28:59 AM

doesn't matter the meal/burger/whatever. choose the nugget meal, or cherry pie.

cost will go up from what they are now, but not enough to throw the system haywire.

Prices have gone up, mostly due to wages. Sure, meat is up 10-15 percent everywhere. We know this.

I posted a small example about our local haunt.

The floor is rising, not the ceiling.

I used the Big Mac. You can substitute anything.

For (just about) any business, the biggest cost is labor. When an owner has to pay double to get workers, we see what happens.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 27, 2022, 10:41:51 AM

Big Mac is commonly used for this type of analysis because it's ubiquitous the world around.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 10:44:41 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 27, 2022, 10:41:51 AM

Big Mac is commonly used for this type of analysis because it's ubiquitous the world around.

Of course.

I used my local haunt. What is sad is that they had a really awesome group of servers and bartenders. We enjoyed the relationships we built with them as customers. Now, it's like a revolving door. People move to take the next buck, and on and on. That's not good for business either. Businesses need continuity, to maintain quality service and product.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 27, 2022, 10:51:08 AM

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/video-westchester-new-york-migrants-night-contractors

You may agree or disagree with this, as that is everybody’s right. I won’t even go there.

I am sharing this because it makes 2 points, IMO:

1.  People in office absolutely do have a very direct impact on immigration.

2.  Denying something is happening when it’s obvious that it is, which let’s be honest has gone on on this topic for a long time including right here on this forum, is not a credible approach

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 27, 2022, 10:52:25 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 10:40:37 AM

Prices have gone up, mostly due to wages. Sure, meat is up 10-15 percent everywhere. We know this.

I posted a small example about our local haunt.

The floor is rising, not the ceiling.

I used the Big Mac. You can substitute anything.

For (just about) any business, the biggest cost is labor. When an owner has to pay double to get workers, we see what happens.

https://smallbusiness.chron.com/common-food-labor-cost-percentages-14700.html

Quote

What Are the Ranges?

Certain fast food restaurants can achieve labor cost as low as 25 percent, while table service restaurants are more likely to see labor in the 30 percent to 40 percent range, depending on the menu and extensiveness of service. Food costs (including beverages) for the restaurant industry run typically from the 28 percent to 35 percent range, depending upon the style of restaurant and the mix of sales.

This is in line with what @rolltidefan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=12) posted above. 

Labor might be the largest single cost, but it's still <50% in the restaurant world. 

If labor is 25% of cost, a doubling of labor costs should result in a price rise of 12.5% to cover the additional overhead. If labor is 40% of cost, a doubling of labor costs should result in a 20% price rise to cover the additional overhead. 

It should be noted that a doubling of the minimum wage, or even a doubling of the average wage within a business, doesn't always lead to a doubling of labor costs. As highlighted already in this thread, increased automation can replace some of that labor cost. Reduced total hours (expecting higher productivity from employees in exchange for higher wages) can also replace some of what would be a presumed doubling. 

We've all (I'm sure) been part of businesses where there are layoffs but the quantity of work doesn't decrease, it's just fewer people around to do it all. 

Either way, a doubling of wages shouldn't lead to a doubling of prices. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 27, 2022, 10:53:33 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 10:40:37 AM

Prices have gone up, mostly due to wages. Sure, meat is up 10-15 percent everywhere. We know this.

not sure this is accurate. it's a factor sure, but don't believe it's the main factor. Beef is up more than 10-15% to where it was pre-COVID, it's up more like 20-25%. Doubt McDonald's uses real beef though. Anyway, that's a pretty big cost increase. Oil prices have shot way up, which has been the single largest driver of inflation. Oil prices skyrocketing like that has a chain reaction which increases prices of everything across the board. The increase in beef prices and oil price has a lot more to do than small wage increases. 

McDonalds has to offer people more money- simple supply and demand. They have demand for workers, and no supply for people to take those jobs. Can't tell you how many McDonalds, Wendy's, Burger Kings I've driven past that have now hiring signs all over the main signs or the windows on the building. They even send the mailers with all the coupons and in the coupons they have been putting now hiring on the ads. They simply can't find workers- so they have to pay more money to attract workers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 27, 2022, 10:57:42 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 06:47:12 AM

If Russia does attack Ukraine, we'll see higher oil prices as Europe tries to pretend to have sanctions on Russia, which they can't really effect very well at all.  I expect more asymmetry in said attack that a direct invasion, but obviously I don't know.

Putin is too smart and too cunning to invade Ukraine imo. My guess is he'll just covertly wreck the country and destabilize it and if any missile defense systems are put on Russia's border they'll just try to take those systems out. I don't think the US is stupid enough to actually put missile systems on Russia's border- but you never know with the useless idiots and war-mongerers who run Washington. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on January 27, 2022, 11:03:06 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 27, 2022, 10:32:33 AM

Mind reader!!

Yeah, I just heard that song on the radio yesterday driving home from a store. One of my favorite Stones tunes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 27, 2022, 11:14:40 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on January 27, 2022, 09:22:44 AM

I wonder if someone is trying to ween the US off of meat.

someone is. that someone is Bill Gates. he's been buying up all the available farmland in the US for the last decade, and he's now the single largest land owner in the entire United States. he's trying to get people off good old fashioned meat and to get them to eat synthetic meat grown in labs.

Bill Gates can f**k right off. He didn't just turn into a gracious philanthropist in his golden years. He's still the same little narcissistic egotistical shithead who stole IP, was a complete tyrant and bully when he was running Microsoft, did all kinds of shady shit to crush his competitors and monopolize entire industries, was a complete arrogant douchebag in his filmed deposition when the government was bringing an anti-trust case against Microsoft, and still the same guy who hung out on the regular with serial pedophile Jeffrey Epstein- AFTER Epstein had been charged and convicted and registered as a sex offender. He's still the same guy. He's just been able to cloak it in philanthropy and by buying favorable media coverage. The guy has given around $320 million to various media outlets in "donations". People who run the media organizations aren't stupid- and a lot of the legacy media organizations are dying and they'll take any dollar they can get- and they know if you print and say nice things about Bill Gates- hey, he'll give you money.

He's also funding a project which proposes to f**k with Earth's atmosphere and blot out of the sun. And the head of that program openly admits they have no idea what will happen if they spray calcium carbonate into the atmosphere or how much they would have to spray for it to have any affect. What could go wrong?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 27, 2022, 11:16:17 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 26, 2022, 05:09:23 PM

Oh come on man, roadtrips to Bakersfield are a downright pilgrimage!

(for fans of Buck Owens and Dwight Yoakum...)

Dwight was raised in C-Bus and briefly attended tOSU

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 27, 2022, 11:18:11 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 08:58:31 AM

I doubt people stop eating fast food, or sodas, or desserts, and whatever else is cheap, fast, and reasonably tasty.

Fat, sugar, salt, caffeine, alcohol, the five major food groups.

Lol! Unfortunately, this is true. And sad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 11:49:49 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 27, 2022, 10:52:25 AM

https://smallbusiness.chron.com/common-food-labor-cost-percentages-14700.html
This is in line with what @rolltidefan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=12) posted above.

Labor might be the largest single cost, but it's still <50% in the restaurant world.

If labor is 25% of cost, a doubling of labor costs should result in a price rise of 12.5% to cover the additional overhead. If labor is 40% of cost, a doubling of labor costs should result in a 20% price rise to cover the additional overhead.

It should be noted that a doubling of the minimum wage, or even a doubling of the average wage within a business, doesn't always lead to a doubling of labor costs. As highlighted already in this thread, increased automation can replace some of that labor cost. Reduced total hours (expecting higher productivity from employees in exchange for higher wages) can also replace some of what would be a presumed doubling.

We've all (I'm sure) been part of businesses where there are layoffs but the quantity of work doesn't decrease, it's just fewer people around to do it all.

Either way, a doubling of wages shouldn't lead to a doubling of prices.

That article is from March, 2019. Vastly different numbers now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 27, 2022, 11:54:11 AM

https://www.yahoo.com/now/biden-admin-says-nord-stream-074813602.html

Quote

Thu, January 27, 2022, 1:48 AM·2 min read

The U.S. will make sure the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline project between Russia and Germany won't go ahead if Russian troops invade Ukraine, State Department spokesperson Ned Price told NPR (https://www.npr.org/2022/01/26/1075880940/biden-administration-is-offering-to-negotiate-with-russia-over-the-crisis-in-ukr) on Wednesday.

...


"I want to be very clear: If Russia invades Ukraine one way or another, Nord Stream 2 will not move forward," Price said in his interview with NPR's Ari Shapiro on the Putin-backed project.

"I'm not going to get into the specifics. We will work with Germany to ensure it does not move forward."

• • • Price noted to Shapiro that Nord Stream 2 was not yet operational, which meant it was "leverage for us" and for Germany. "It is leverage for the trans-Atlantic community because gas is not flowing," he added.

Emily Haber, Germany's ambassador to the U.S., tweeted Wednesday (https://twitter.com/GermanAmbUSA/status/1486334874244075525): "The US and Germany jointly declared last summer: if Russia uses energy as a weapon or if there is another violation of Ukraine’s sovereignty, Russia will have to pay a high price."

• She added that German Chancellor Olaf Scholz and Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock "stated clearly: nothing will be off the table, including Nord Stream 2."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on January 27, 2022, 12:02:46 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 26, 2022, 06:18:24 PM

To answer the questions, in order:

Because they don't seem to have an issue with it.

Because more people want to live there and because wages are higher.

Not sure about utilities. Maybe something to do with the fact that infrastructure has fallen into disrepair? I have someone in my life who knows more about the ins and outs of the power business. Maybe I should check.

Because the idea of not allowing companies to pay poverty wages appeals to them.

And it's all held up because people, for some reason, really, really, REALLY want to live there.

I wish the people who live there and voted for all of this would stay there with their politics.  Not particularly happy with the slow but steady californiation of Arizona. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 27, 2022, 12:10:41 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 27, 2022, 11:54:11 AM

https://www.yahoo.com/now/biden-admin-says-nord-stream-074813602.html

The Germans want that pipeline desperately, they are the ones who begged the US to lift sanctions which would allow it to move forward. Putin wants to sell Germany natural gas so he can make $$$$$$$$. I don't believe he wishes to invade and occupy Ukraine. What he doesn't want is for Ukraine to join NATO or for any missile defense systems to be put on the Russian border.

According to the papers of record- WaPost and NYT, US "intelligence sources" have been saying Putin is going to invade Ukraine for months now. Yet he hasn't invaded. These are the same anonymous "intelligence sources" that said Iraq had WMD and that Donald Trump was a Russian agent. So if I am skeptical of them, well...it's hard not to be. Their track record sucks.

I think the guy is just too smart and cunning and he knows if he invades a) he can't hold or occupy the country and b) the entire Western world would align against him. He's not some ideologue who wants to take over the world, but there is no doubt that Ukraine is of vital strategic importance to Russia as a buffer state and they want to maintain it in their sphere of influence. It means nothing to the US- it is of no strategic importance to the US or the EU by any means. Yet, it means A LOT to Russia. He's a mafia boss businessman. He wants that pipeline and he wants to sell Germany as much natural gas as they want so he can steal money from the state-backed company which sells Germany the natural gas and make himself and his family and allies even richer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 27, 2022, 12:13:05 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 11:49:49 AM

That article is from March, 2019. Vastly different numbers now.

https://thebottomlinegroup.com/what-percentage-of-revenue-should-be-spent-on-payroll/

https://www.netsuite.com/portal/resource/articles/financial-management/small-business-payroll-percentage.shtml

https://pos.toasttab.com/blog/on-the-line/restaurant-labor-cost-percentage

https://home.binwise.com/blog/labor-cost

https://adia.works/blog/labor-cost-percentage-by-industry/

https://www.hourly.io/post/how-is-labor-cost-calculated

all from nov 2021 or more recent.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on January 27, 2022, 12:18:23 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on January 27, 2022, 12:02:46 PM

I wish the people who live there and voted for all of this would stay there with their politics.  Not particularly happy with the slow but steady californiation of Arizona.

Probably should add I took advantage of the Californian influx and sold my house at a huge profit and rolling that profit into building my retirement home almost for cash from the sale. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 27, 2022, 12:28:47 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on January 27, 2022, 11:03:06 AM

Yeah, I just heard that song on the radio yesterday driving home from a store. One of my favorite Stones tunes.

Ditto!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 12:34:55 PM

I read an article about how Putin funds the green parties in Germany for obvious reasons.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 27, 2022, 12:36:06 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on January 27, 2022, 12:18:23 PM

Probably should add I took advantage of the Californian influx and sold my house at a huge profit and rolling that profit into building my retirement home almost for cash from the sale.

I think it's a universal lament. Everyone, everywhere is mad that someone from some other place, sometimes with different ideas, sometimes just with the vague sense of cooties, is coming in. And the flows will shift and change through the years. Used to be if you were from Arizona, there was a very good chance you'd move to Ca. 

I tend to look at this as a former econ major. If there's a place where you can live better, with wages and prices being the top two factors, and other elements coming in after that, basic econ says people will shift toward that thing until some kind of equilibrium is reached. So things will go round and round with cheap places getting overrun until they get more expensive. People in CA are taking advantage of the high prices there, using that money in Az, which helps raise prices, and as an owner of an crucial asset also get to take advantage of it. Econ at work. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 12:37:40 PM

I THINK Putin is ...

1.  Massing troops to theaten invasion to see what he can get at the table not to invade.
2.  Destabilizing Ukraine with asymmetric methods as usual.
3.  Encouraging separatists in Bombass etc.
4.  Planning some false flag operations here and there with LGM.
5.  Move slowly and appear threatening to get negotiated benefits.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 27, 2022, 12:40:22 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on January 27, 2022, 11:03:06 AM

Yeah, I just heard that song on the radio yesterday driving home from a store. One of my favorite Stones tunes.

Reminds me to make my donation to the Sacred Bleeding Heart of Jesus

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 27, 2022, 01:11:56 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 12:37:40 PM

I THINK Putin is ...

1.  Massing troops to theaten invasion to see what he can get at the table not to invade.
2.  Destabilizing Ukraine with asymmetric methods as usual.
3.  Encouraging separatists in Bombass etc.
4.  Planning some false flag operations here and there with LGM.
5.  Move slowly and appear threatening to get negotiated benefits.

And I think you are right.

Putin is a ruthless murderous thug. But whatever you think of him, he's A LOT smarter and more cunning than the idiots we have running this country. He knows he can't invade Ukraine and occupy the entire country. He's not dumb.

And when they took Crimea it's not exactly like they invaded. They were already there- they had a huge military presence at the Sevastopol base. And Crimea was a bit of a different situation. One that base is of the utmost strategic importance to them- it may just be the most important naval base they have- they were not going to risk losing it if a new government that came after the overthrow of the Ukrainian government was hostile to them. Also- Crimea was part of the Russian Empire/USSR for like 300+ hundred years up until about 60 years ago- and the majority of the people in Crimea were ethnic Russian and spoke Russian as a first language. Note I am not agreeing with Russia taking Crimea or condoning it- just pointing out the why and the circumstances that lead up to it. And it was an easy sell to the people that lived there- most of them were Russian. IF he invades Ukraine- that's not going to be an easy sell. He's going to be met with resistance- lots of it. Ukraine doesn't want them there. It's impossible to hold and occupy a foreign country that doesn't want you there. He knows this. He saw it when the USSR invaded Afghanistan. He saw it when the Americans invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. I don't think he's an idiot. I don't think he's going to make those same mistakes and get drawn into a long conflict trying to a hold a country that he can't which would piss off the entire West in the process and could lead to a massive war.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 01:12:24 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on January 27, 2022, 12:13:05 PM

https://thebottomlinegroup.com/what-percentage-of-revenue-should-be-spent-on-payroll/

https://www.netsuite.com/portal/resource/articles/financial-management/small-business-payroll-percentage.shtml

https://pos.toasttab.com/blog/on-the-line/restaurant-labor-cost-percentage

https://home.binwise.com/blog/labor-cost

https://adia.works/blog/labor-cost-percentage-by-industry/

https://www.hourly.io/post/how-is-labor-cost-calculated

all from nov 2021 or more recent.

I'll put it plainly, again. Labor cost is the single highest cost for just about any employer.

And, there are many more things that go into labor costs then just wages.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 01:18:06 PM

I learned a bit when I owned a piece of a restaurant about costs, the ideal was for food costs to be about a third of the menu cost.  Labor costs were of course high even paying a pittance, we still had two GMs on salary.   The service on the debt was a heavy burden.  It was very tough to be profitable, the core idea was to break even on food and make money on alcohol.  The servers of course made money on tips more than salary, but they had to share with the bar and the front end.

Then we lost our chef and it was downhill from there, he was really good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 27, 2022, 01:26:56 PM

Restaurant business is tough.  Almost impossible, really,  for local independents in major metro areas.   We owned our BBQ restaurant for about ten years while I was growing up. 

Employee theft is a major expense as well, and it's often difficult to account for it on the balance sheet and income statements.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 27, 2022, 01:38:23 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 01:18:06 PM

I learned a bit when I owned a piece of a restaurant about costs, the ideal was for food costs to be about a third of the menu cost.  Labor costs were of course high even paying a pittance, we still had two GMs on salary.  The service on the debt was a heavy burden.  It was very tough to be profitable, the core idea was to break even on food and make money on alcohol.  The servers of course made money on tips more than salary, but they had to share with the bar and the front end.

Then we lost our chef and it was downhill from there, he was really good.

restaurant business is tough. imo the only way you can make any real money in the restaurant business is if you rip your customers off and you get them to gladly be ripped off with a smile on their face. you can only do that if you have a really good product and the place becomes a "hot-spot". Impossible to predict that sort of thing though.

there's a restaurant called Cafe Martorano's in Ft. Lauderdale - really excellent Italian-American spot, but the prices are literally insane. He is price gouging and ripping people off blind. But they pay it happily. But....the guy gets it and has got it for 30+ years and largely because it just became a celebrity hot-spot. Athletes, actors, rappers, singers- someone is always hanging out there. I've seen Dennis Rodman there, Shaq there, Dan Marino, Fat Joe - there's always someone there. And a lot of these guys fly the owner out to cook for them in their own homes. Like Shaq. Shaq ate there like damn near every night when he played for the Heat became friends with the owner and he flies him out to cook for him and his family.

Haven't been there in a minute, but 1 meatball with a little bit of ricotta cheese and some salad is around $30 I want to say. You take a girl there, two people with appetizers, entrees, desert, and couple drinks- easily over $300. For Italian-American food. That stuff isn't that expensive to make, believe me I know. And it's not like he has to pay an expert skilled pasta maker to hand make pasta- all their pasta is dried.

Not knocking him, the food is excellent but the prices are astronomical for what it is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 27, 2022, 02:20:52 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 01:18:06 PM

Then we lost our chef and it was downhill from there, he was really good.

Die of Salmonella?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 27, 2022, 02:25:00 PM

does anybody else find it astonishing that really the only anti-war voice in the news media right now on either basic tv news (ABC, NBC, CBS) or cable news (Fox, CNN, MSNBC) - is coming from Tucker Carlson and Fox News? Tucker was asking questions about Syria and whether we knew the "gas attacks" we used to justify more bombing in Syria were actually done by Bashar al-Assad (turns out they weren't), he was for leaving Afghanistan, and he's now asking why are our politicians and media so quick to beat the drums of war with a nuclear armed Russia.

This legitimately kind of blows my mind. News media is basically state tv- and they are always for more war. And I'm old enough to remember when Fox News was cheerleading and front-running the Iraq & Afghanistan wars, cheerleading for the destruction of Libya- and anyone even saying, hey wait a minute maybe we should re-think this and maybe not do this was an anti-american jihadist sympathizer. They were probably the most hardcore pro war of them all. To see their highest rated show make an anti-war turn is stunning to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 27, 2022, 02:32:25 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 01:12:24 PM

I'll put it plainly, again. Labor cost is the single highest cost for just about any employer.

And, there are many more things that go into labor costs then just wages.

single highest =/= majority. it's still roughly 30%, or should be, for most industries. restaurant industry is slightly higher at 35-40%, or should be.

and this isn't some theoretical number either. i am or have been owner/partner in several business, and that's been consistent across all of them.

and in my primary profession, we service around 4500 business clients, of which we are intimately familiar with their financials. it's consistent, at least for the successful ones.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 27, 2022, 02:37:33 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 27, 2022, 01:26:56 PM

Restaurant business is tough.  Almost impossible, really,  for local independents in major metro areas.  We owned our BBQ restaurant for about ten years while I was growing up.

Employee theft is a major expense as well, and it's often difficult to account for it on the balance sheet and income statements.

it is fickle. you can have good food, at a great price, and in a good location, and it still go wrong.

i imagine virtually everywhere has a place like this, but there's 1 spot in tuscaloosa that seems perfect for a good restaurant, and it's had some great ones (and bad ones) in that spot, but they never work out for some reason. it's near campus, but easy access in and out, should have plenty of students plus locals in and out. plenty large enough for good crowds on big event weekends, but not crazy huge. the food depends on what it is, but it's had some really good food in there for reasonable prices. i can't explain it, but they never seem to make it past 2 years before shutting down.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 27, 2022, 02:40:03 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 27, 2022, 02:25:00 PM

does anybody else find it astonishing that really the only anti-war voice in the news media right now on either basic tv news (ABC, NBC, CBS) or cable news (Fox, CNN, MSNBC) - is coming from Tucker Carlson and Fox News? Tucker was asking questions about Syria and whether we knew the "gas attacks" we used to justify more bombing in Syria were actually done by Bashar al-Assad (turns out they weren't), he was for leaving Afghanistan, and he's now asking why are our politicians and media so quick to beat the drums of war with a nuclear armed Russia.

This legitimately kind of blows my mind. News media is basically state tv- and they are always for more war. And I'm old enough to remember when Fox News was cheerleading and front-running the Iraq & Afghanistan wars, cheerleading for the destruction of Libya- and anyone even saying, hey wait a minute maybe we should re-think this and maybe not do this was an anti-american jihadist sympathizer. They were probably the most hardcore pro war of them all. To see their highest rated show make an anti-war turn is stunning to me.

Tucker does not play politics.  Hes his own man.  Loved it when he pointed out that the White House is very concerned about border integrity for Ukraine but doesnt give a damn about the US border.

Tucker also used to work at CNN so hes seen the other side of the fence so to speak.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 27, 2022, 02:43:13 PM

also....is anybody else as disheartened and sad by the complete downfall and decay of Howard Stern and Stephen Colbert? These guys used to be heros of mine. It's sad as hell to see what they have become. I guess getting old and taking those fat paydays will do that to a person.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 27, 2022, 02:45:09 PM

whoops! now do pelosi....lol.

https://twitter.com/krystalball/status/1485732197063667721?s=20&t=QEPEsCcIx5mKcLNhc1P-qw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 27, 2022, 02:46:58 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 27, 2022, 02:45:09 PM

whoops! now do pelosi....lol.

https://twitter.com/krystalball/status/1485732197063667721?s=20&t=QEPEsCcIx5mKcLNhc1P-qw

should probably do most of congress, tbh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 27, 2022, 02:52:19 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 27, 2022, 02:43:13 PM

also....is anybody else as disheartened and sad by the complete downfall and decay of Howard Stern and Stephen Colbert? These guys used to be heros of mine. It's sad as hell to see what they have become. I guess getting old and taking those fat paydays will do that to a person.

Its sad when an entertainer goes into politics instead of doing what their real job is

when you do that you lose have the country right away

not very smart

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 27, 2022, 02:59:07 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 27, 2022, 02:52:19 PM

Its sad when an entertainer goes into politics instead of doing what their real job is

when you do that you lose have the country right away

not very smart

it's not that just, they both lost their edge.

Howard Stern was a bad boy, a die hard free speech advocate with a real edge who was anti-establishment. Now he's best friends with Hilary Clinton and is about as dangerous as walking across the street. Makes me want to vomit.

Colbert had the greatest political satire show of all-time. He went from being a real pioneer with one of the funniest tv shows ever to being an absolute hack with a show that is so cringey and dull it's impossible to watch. That's got to be part of the gig though maybe. Who really wants to see him interview celebrities about stupid bullshit? I feel like people don't even watch those stupid late night shows anymore. Carson, Leno, and Letterman used to get huge ratings back in the day. I doubt these new guys are getting even a fraction of those old guys' ratings.

It's just sad to see.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 27, 2022, 03:49:49 PM

Cooties!    😂😂😂👍😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 03:51:51 PM

Maybe we'd do better with former athletes in office.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 27, 2022, 03:53:21 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 03:51:51 PM

Maybe we'd do better with former athletes in office.

is wrestling a sport? are WWE wrestlers athletes? Cause I think The Rock is probably going to wind up president someday, and sooner rather than later. if he ever runs- he'll win.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 03:55:33 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on January 27, 2022, 02:32:25 PM

single highest =/= majority. it's still roughly 30%, or should be, for most industries. restaurant industry is slightly higher at 35-40%, or should be.

and this isn't some theoretical number either. i am or have been owner/partner in several business, and that's been consistent across all of them.

and in my primary profession, we service around 4500 business clients, of which we are intimately familiar with their financials. it's consistent, at least for the successful ones.

Funny.

In my profession, labor is about 70 percent.

As for restaurants, I was talking mostly fast-food. In sit downs, you have low wages for wait staff due to tipping (I wish that would go away - just pay them and charge more).

If you look at fast food, the numbers come from everywhere.

Food costs are up due to raw packing.

It's up due to shipping - those wages are up (along with the energy required to ship).

Property taxes are up in most places. 

Labor costs are up in all places.

And that is why the Big Mac meal will soon be $15.00.

And, who is driving all of these increases?? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 03:57:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 03:51:51 PM

Maybe we'd do better with former athletes in office.

I sent a little money to help out a Heisman winner lately.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 27, 2022, 03:58:59 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 03:55:33 PM

Funny.

In my profession, labor is about 70 percent.

As for restaurants, I was talking mostly fast-food. In sit downs, you have low wages for wait staff due to tipping (I wish that would go away - just pay them and charge more).

If you look at fast food, the numbers come from everywhere.

Food costs are up due to raw packing.

It's up due to shipping - those wages are up (along with the energy required to ship).

Property taxes are up in most places.

Labor costs are up in all places.

And that is why the Big Mac meal will soon be $15.00.

And, who is driving all of these increases??

Yes but you also carry considerably more staff for a full-service restaurant.

Average profit margins for full service restaurants are in the 2-4% range, and for fast food it's 3-6%.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 27, 2022, 03:59:17 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 27, 2022, 03:53:21 PM

is wrestling a sport? are WWE wrestlers athletes? Cause I think The Rock is probably going to wind up president someday, and sooner rather than later. if he ever runs- he'll win.

the rock played cfb at miami. was backup to warren sapp. was on the 1991 title team. i don't know about wwe, but i'm gonna give the rock the distinction of being an athlete.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 27, 2022, 04:02:50 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 03:55:33 PM

Funny.

In my profession, labor is about 70 percent.

You should have studied art history. Labor is almost 100% in that industry... :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 04:10:50 PM

Cost of materials was the main cost where I worked.  SG&A was about 30%, and I dimly recall that compensation was about 30% of SG&A.  The cost of materials was about half of total expenses.  This is probably in line with a lot of manufacturing companies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 27, 2022, 04:21:19 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 27, 2022, 04:02:50 PM

You should have studied art history. Labor is almost 100% in that industry... :57:

they should probably budget some legal fees for those botched restorations that seem to be so prevalent these days.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 04:26:13 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 27, 2022, 04:02:50 PM

You should have studied art history. Labor is almost 100% in that industry... :57:

100% of zero is zero. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 27, 2022, 04:28:05 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 04:26:13 PM

100% of zero is zero. :)

Ahh, but that's the thing... Costs accumulate whether revenue does or doesn't. They just get called losses.

If 97% of your losses are labor costs (I mean, you might need office supplies and a computer in there) on zero revenue, then you're still working with labor as 97% of your business costs. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 27, 2022, 04:53:06 PM

Wait, numbers go below zero???  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 27, 2022, 04:55:00 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2022, 03:57:13 PM

I sent a little money to help out a Heisman winner lately.

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/Ymwj6Ea3B3e1O/giphy.webp?cid=6c09b952ca797b32d25b6e7731471b764ecf088c2db1a476&rid=giphy.webp&ct=g)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 27, 2022, 05:17:52 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 27, 2022, 04:55:00 PM

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/Ymwj6Ea3B3e1O/giphy.webp?cid=6c09b952ca797b32d25b6e7731471b764ecf088c2db1a476&rid=giphy.webp&ct=g)

:043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 05:28:59 PM

The number zero was a significant mathematical advance, thanks to India apparently.  You might have tried to add using Roman numerals at some point.

One of the unusual expressions in math is Euler's Formula, which we all know of course.

(https://i.imgur.com/0Yu6gdy.png)

Euler's number came into being when lenders attempted to charge interest monthly, then weekly, then daily, then every second, and so on.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 27, 2022, 05:43:04 PM

For me, the concept of imaginary numbers is the craziest one. It's literally something that is of tremendous value in so much of science. And it's based on a concept that literally cannot exist; the square root of a negative number. 

It's something that doesn't exist--can't exist--and yet is incredibly useful. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 27, 2022, 07:14:02 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 27, 2022, 05:43:04 PM

For me, the concept of imaginary numbers is the craziest one. It's literally something that is of tremendous value in so much of science. And it's based on a concept that literally cannot exist; the square root of a negative number.

It's something that doesn't exist--can't exist--and yet is incredibly useful.

“It’s something that doesn't exist--can't exist--and yet is incredibly useful”

Many things come to mind that fit that category, but I will just stop at that🥴

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 27, 2022, 07:52:54 PM

is this national nerd week and I missed it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 27, 2022, 07:58:26 PM

QUICK!  Everyone hitch up yer pants, spit a loogy on the ground, and ask yer woman what's fer dinner!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 27, 2022, 08:29:50 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 27, 2022, 07:58:26 PM

QUICK!  Everyone hitch up yer pants, spit a loogy on the ground, and ask yer woman what's fer dinner!!!

no I said nerd not turd

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2022, 06:54:45 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 27, 2022, 04:53:06 PM

Wait, numbers go below zero??? 

Profit > 0

Loss < 0

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2022, 07:05:12 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 27, 2022, 02:45:09 PM

whoops! now do pelosi....lol.

Sure.


(https://i.imgur.com/SMIEhM1.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on January 28, 2022, 09:09:47 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 27, 2022, 12:40:22 PM

Reminds me to make my donation to the Sacred Bleeding Heart of Jesus

Do you have to go to somewhere in Los Angles, California to do so? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 28, 2022, 09:37:17 AM

Housing tidbits:

Since it is part of my responsibility in my profession to keep tabs on the housing market I thought I would share a couple very easy, quick reads that some here may find of use or interesting.  

https://eyeonhousing.org/2022/01/impacts-of-rising-new-home-costs/?utm_source=ExactTarget&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=mnw (https://eyeonhousing.org/2022/01/impacts-of-rising-new-home-costs/?utm_source=ExactTarget&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=mnw)


https://www.redfin.com/news/luxury-price-tier-report-q4-2021/?utm_source=ExactTarget&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=mnw


https://www.realtor.com/news/trends/cash-incentive-programs-changing-rules-on-where-americans/?utm_source=ExactTarget&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=mnw (https://www.realtor.com/news/trends/cash-incentive-programs-changing-rules-on-where-americans/?utm_source=ExactTarget&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=mnw)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2022, 10:15:50 AM

From that last link:


specifically individuals in STEAM fields (science, technology, engineering, arts, and math)


Which one of those is not like the others?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2022, 10:21:12 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2022, 10:15:50 AM

From that last link:


specifically individuals in STEAM fields (science, technology, engineering, arts, and math)


Which one of those is not like the others?

The arts are still important. People in the arts are typically highly creative. Engineers, mathematicians, scientists- eh....not so much. 

Steve Jobs wasn't an engineer, mathematician, or computer programmer. What he was, was a creative artistic f**k though, and he only built multiple billion dollar companies (Apple, NeXT, Pixar) and changed the entire world and built the most profitable company the world has ever seen by employing all those nerds you speak of and filtering his artistry through them to create globe-changing products and services.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2022, 10:32:09 AM

So one guy out of how many?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 10:37:17 AM

I found the elite scientists to be highly creative.  Many had avocations in the music or artistic areas of course.  I surmise many could have been musicians (some were in fact), but I doubt many artists could become PhD scientists in a STEM field.  I don't think one can be an elite scientist without being creative, and curious.

I did have a trumpet major in one of my senior chem labs at UNC.  He told me he just liked chemistry, most of the other students were headed to med school.

He was a sharp cookie.  My neighbor who was a physics professor at Tech is a tremendously good photographer, mostly of wild life in Africa.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 28, 2022, 10:43:39 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2022, 10:21:12 AM

The arts are still important. People in the arts are typically highly creative. Engineers, mathematicians, scientists- eh....not so much.

Steve Jobs wasn't an engineer, mathematician, or computer programmer. What he was, was a creative artistic f**k though, and he only built multiple billion dollar companies (Apple, NeXT, Pixar) and changed the entire world and built the most profitable company the world has ever seen by employing all those nerds you speak of and filtering his artistry through them to create globe-changing products and services.

don't think i'd consider jobs artistic. he was a brilliant marketer and ruthless businessman, and incredibly stupid about his own health, but that doesn't matter. he was a visionary, though, so maybe that qualifies him as artistic.

the arts matter a ton, though. painting and drawing, etc, might not appear of much use other than enjoyment of beauty, but the arts drive ideas and innovation. and i think engineers, carpenters, mathematicians, etc are very much tied with arts. they inspire engineers and push maths to come up with new concepts or solutions, even new problems to explore. and programmers have aided both of those professions in accomplishing those goals. imo, it was brilliantly creative minds that discovered the pythagorean theorem, perfected internal combustion engines, developed apple/iphone software...

having said that, we don't need half the population studying the history of those discoveries.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2022, 10:53:16 AM

Quote from: rolltidefan on January 28, 2022, 10:43:39 AM

don't think i'd consider jobs artistic. he was a brilliant marketer and ruthless businessman, and incredibly stupid about his own health, but that doesn't matter. he was a visionary, though, so maybe that qualifies him as artistic.

the arts matter a ton, though. painting and drawing, etc, might not appear of much use other than enjoyment of beauty, but the arts drive ideas and innovation. and i think engineers, carpenters, mathematicians, etc are very much tied with arts. they inspire engineers and push maths to come up with new concepts or solutions, even new problems to explore. and programmers have aided both of those professions in accomplishing those goals. imo, it was brilliantly creative minds that discovered the pythagorean theorem, perfected internal combustion engines, developed apple/iphone software...

having said that, we don't need half the population studying the history of those discoveries.

great post and I'm with you there.

But are half the population really studying that? I'd be curious to know what the actual number is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2022, 10:54:02 AM

Quote from: rolltidefan on January 28, 2022, 10:43:39 AM

don't think i'd consider jobs artistic. he was a brilliant marketer and ruthless businessman, and incredibly stupid about his own health, but that doesn't matter. he was a visionary, though, so maybe that qualifies him as artistic.

the arts matter a ton, though. painting and drawing, etc, might not appear of much use other than enjoyment of beauty, but the arts drive ideas and innovation. and i think engineers, carpenters, mathematicians, etc are very much tied with arts. they inspire engineers and push maths to come up with new concepts or solutions, even new problems to explore. and programmers have aided both of those professions in accomplishing those goals. imo, it was brilliantly creative minds that discovered the pythagorean theorem, perfected internal combustion engines, developed apple/iphone software...

having said that, we don't need half the population studying the history of those discoveries.

You had me all pissed off until that last part.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2022, 10:55:45 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2022, 10:53:16 AM

great post and I'm with you there.

But are half the population really studying that? I'd be curious to know what the actual number is.

25 Most Popular College Majors

Methodology: The following list of majors is based on data provided by the National Center for Education Statistics (https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d20/tables/dt20_322.10.asp) and The Economic Value of College Majors (https://1gyhoq479ufd3yna29x7ubjn-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/The-Economic-Value-of-College-Majors-Full-Report-web-FINAL.pdf) by Georgetown University.

Select from the list of majors that most interest you to jump to that section:

• Business Administration (https://www.mydegreeguide.com/most-popular-college-majors/#bachelors-degree-business-administration)
• Accounting (https://www.mydegreeguide.com/most-popular-college-majors/#bachelors-accounting-degree-program)
• Nursing (https://www.mydegreeguide.com/most-popular-college-majors/#bachelors-degree-program-nursing)
• Psychology (https://www.mydegreeguide.com/most-popular-college-majors/#psychology-bachelors-degree-program)
• Communications (https://www.mydegreeguide.com/most-popular-college-majors/#communications-bachelors-degree)
• Marketing (https://www.mydegreeguide.com/most-popular-college-majors/#bachelors-marketing-degree-program)
• Education (https://www.mydegreeguide.com/most-popular-college-majors/#education-bachelors-degree-program)
• Elementary Education (https://www.mydegreeguide.com/most-popular-college-majors/#bachelors-degree-elementary-education)
• English (https://www.mydegreeguide.com/most-popular-college-majors/#bachelors-degree-program-english)
• Computer Science (https://www.mydegreeguide.com/most-popular-college-majors/#computer-science-bachelors-degree-program)
• Finance (https://www.mydegreeguide.com/most-popular-college-majors/#bachelors-finance-degree-program)
• Criminal Justice (https://www.mydegreeguide.com/most-popular-college-majors/#criminal-justice-bachelors-degree)
• Biology (https://www.mydegreeguide.com/most-popular-college-majors/#biology-bachelors-degree-program)
• Political Science (https://www.mydegreeguide.com/most-popular-college-majors/#bachelors-degree-political-science)
• Economics (https://www.mydegreeguide.com/most-popular-college-majors/#bachelors-degree-program-economics)
• Electrical Engineering (https://www.mydegreeguide.com/most-popular-college-majors/#electrical-engineering-bachelors)
• History (https://www.mydegreeguide.com/most-popular-college-majors/#bachelors-history-degree-program)
• Liberal Arts (https://www.mydegreeguide.com/most-popular-college-majors/#liberal-arts-bachelors-degree)
• Sociology (https://www.mydegreeguide.com/most-popular-college-majors/#sociology-bachelors-degree-program)
• Fine Arts (https://www.mydegreeguide.com/most-popular-college-majors/#bachelors-degree-fine-arts)
• Commercial Art & Graphic Design (https://www.mydegreeguide.com/most-popular-college-majors/#commercial-art-and-graphic-design)
• General Engineering (https://www.mydegreeguide.com/most-popular-college-majors/#general-engineering-bachelors-degree)
• Journalism (https://www.mydegreeguide.com/most-popular-college-majors/#journalism-bachelors-degree-program)
• Computer and Information Systems (https://www.mydegreeguide.com/most-popular-college-majors/#computer-and-information-systems)
• Social Work (https://www.mydegreeguide.com/most-popular-college-majors/#social-work-bachelors-degree-program)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 28, 2022, 11:23:30 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2022, 10:53:16 AM

great post and I'm with you there.

But are half the population really studying that? I'd be curious to know what the actual number is.

https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=37

according to the above... i have no idea. if it's included in the visual and performing arts, it's less than 5% (well under 5% because that's if that whole category was art history).

if it's included in social sciences and histories, it doesn't give overall %, but does show its in decline from the last 10 years over the prior 10 (by 10%).

conversely, engineering, computer and technology sciences, ag and natural resources, and health and related programs (among others) were all increasing over those same time periods.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 28, 2022, 11:26:53 AM

Only 6 of the top 25 are things I would consider STEM, and that's being generous and including Economics. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 11:30:25 AM

I would have guessed ME >> EE, but I mostly was working around MEs.  I'd guess the biology has a lot of premeds in it.  What is "general engineering"?

To note, these are "majors" which could include freshmen who later will opt to something else, maybe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 28, 2022, 11:37:21 AM

EE and Comp Sci go hand in hand in a lot of ways.  EE is actually ECE at Texas-- Electrical and Computer Engineering.  My upper division sequence had just as many computer-related courses, as it had traditional EE courses like Electro Magnetics or Analog Circuit Design.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 28, 2022, 11:37:38 AM

I heard an astounding thing in a documentary I was watching about China the other day....

China is producing more engineers every single year than the United States has engineers. I realize China has 1.1+ billion more people than the US, but just hearing that...it's like wow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 28, 2022, 11:38:26 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 28, 2022, 11:26:53 AM

Only 6 of the top 25 are things I would consider STEM, and that's being generous and including Economics.

It can also can be pretty specific per school. I double majored in zoology and poly sci at Miami. Poly sci at Miami was more or less glorified history lessons on whatever the teachers focused on. My buddy went to Carnegie Mellon and added a poly sci, but there it was very focused on statistics and econ. So, whatevs. Also what is nursing but the applied science of medicine?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 28, 2022, 11:39:39 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 11:30:25 AM

I would have guessed ME >> EE, but I mostly was working around MEs.  

I was going to make a comment but deleted it about CS/EE/CIS all being sort of interrelated. Probably more the first two than the last one, because Computer and Information Systems is probably more IT than actual coding/design.

I can say from being in the electronics industry is that in any electrical product design, you have a handful of hardware engineers and a huge team of firmware engineers. Those firmware engineers will VERY often be EE and less often CS. CS is more into software application development rather than product/firmware level stuff IMHO. 

Those teams typically dwarf the few mechanical engineers which are needed to design the product fitting around the electronics.

This is somewhat less true in half of my company (HDDs) because the electro-mechanical portion of the design is massively complicated and with a lot of moving parts. But it's completely true in the other half (SSDs) because an SSD is basically electrical components soldered to a PCB and put in a housing [sometimes]. Mechanical engineers are necessary, but not very many of them. Likewise, the team creating the schematic and laying out the board are obviously necessary, but not very many of them relative to the team doing firmware development. 

I'd say that this would be completely inverted in an industry like, for example, automobiles. But even there, electronics and computer controls of EVERYTHING in a car would suggest that EE would be catching up quickly. Especially as we add driver assist / self-driving features. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 28, 2022, 11:40:56 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2022, 11:37:38 AM

I heard an astounding thing in a documentary I was watching about China the other day....

China is producing more engineers every single year than the United States has engineers. I realize China has 1.1+ billion more people than the US, but just hearing that...it's like wow.

Can't remember what I was reading - maybe it was here, but that Africa has some of the fastest growing economies in the world, and the US always sends teenagers and missionaries there while China sends businessmen and engineers. Also, (paraphrasing) China has two recent contributions to world culture - the book The Three Body Problem and Tiktok.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 28, 2022, 11:41:43 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2022, 10:54:02 AM

You had me all pissed off until that last part.

to me, arts =/= art history.

we need few art historians. i'm fine with a large population of artists, to a degree. but much the same way a population of too many engineers wouldn't be a good thing either.

in fact, overall, we're probably "too educated" in the sense that we have too many people going to college for fields that don't need that level of population/concentration. we need more in ag and technical degrees.

i put "too educated" in "" because, imo, we're overall terribly educated, but too many people have a piece of paper saying they're special and not enough willing to stand up and show it. there's tons of great opportunities for fantastic jobs like welding, electrician, plumbing, mechanic, tech technician, nursing and several others i'm sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 11:43:54 AM

Yeah, but I bet the US has more lawyers than China does.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 28, 2022, 11:45:14 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 28, 2022, 11:37:21 AM

EE and Comp Sci go hand in hand in a lot of ways.  EE is actually ECE at Texas-- Electrical and Computer Engineering.  My upper division sequence had just as many computer-related courses, as it had traditional EE courses like Electro Magnetics or Analog Circuit Design.

Not sure what it is today at Purdue, but it was ECE when I was there as well. 

That said, it was still separated from CS. 

As I say above, in my estimation a key differentiator is that CS is a little bit more focused on software application development and is more abstracted from the hardware. Whereas the computer engineering folks may do just as much coding, but it's more likely to be a firmware focus where the code is inextricably linked to the hardware, i.e. making an electrical or electromechanical system do something. 

There's enough overlap that learning one can lay the groundwork to do the other, with the exception that a CS major may be able to be a great firmware engineer, but that CS major is probably never going to be doing analog circuit design. 

(Granted, most EEs will never touch analog circuit design... Analog experts these days are few and far between, and extraordinarily well compensated as a result.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 28, 2022, 11:46:39 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 28, 2022, 11:40:56 AM

Can't remember what I was reading - maybe it was here, but that Africa has some of the fastest growing economies in the world, and the US always sends teenagers and missionaries there while China sends businessmen and engineers. Also, (paraphrasing) China has two recent contributions to world culture - the book The Three Body Problem and Tiktok.

china going in heavy in africa and south america with engineers and infrastructure related fields. i'm far from any kind of expert on this stuff, but from what i read it's to gain trust and accumulate debt so those places are in bed with china long term. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 11:48:36 AM

China plays the long game.  The US plays whatever works for the next quarter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 28, 2022, 11:50:06 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 28, 2022, 11:26:53 AM

Only 6 of the top 25 are things I would consider STEM, and that's being generous and including Economics.

Where do you put nursing?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 28, 2022, 11:52:07 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 11:48:36 AM

China plays the long game.  The US plays whatever works for the next quarter.

Sometimes. Didn’t they just build a bunch of empty cities to make their GDP look extra shiny?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2022, 11:54:55 AM

At Wisconsin:

Electrical & Computer Engineering

Bachelor of Science, Computer Engineering
Ranking: 14
Computer engineers design, develop, and manage systems that process, store, and convey information. These systems include computers, networks, digital systems and any device or system with an electronic “brain”. They also conduct research on ideas for new computer technologies. Computer engineers are heavily involved in the growing Internet and E-commerce areas and also develop the computer-aided design tools that are used in every other type of engineering. A computer engineer typically has the hardware background of an electrical engineer and the software background of a computer scientist.

Bachelor of Science, Electrical Engineering
Ranking: 17
Electrical engineers create and innovate electrical and electronic components and systems. They also conduct research on ideas for new technologies. Examples include electric power generation and distribution, mobile communications, robotics, biomedical devices and systems, alternative and sustainable energy sources, automotive electronics, electric and hybrid-electric transportation systems, consumer products, data processing tools, and electronic sensors and sensing systems. The electrical engineer is also concerned with the devices that make up such systems: transistors, integrated circuits, antennas, computer memory devices, and fusion plasma confinement devices.


Then there is separate department for Computer Science

BA/BS in Computer Sciences

We offer a state-of-the-art undergraduate curriculum that is continually updated by the faculty research experience. Students fulfilling the degree requirements may earn a BA, a BS, or a certificate in Computer Sciences. The department offers project-oriented courses in artificial intelligence, computational biology, computer architecture, computer graphics, computer networks, computer security, computer systems, databases, human-computer interaction, operating systems, programming languages and compilers, software engineering and wireless systems. These systems courses are complemented by undergraduate analysis courses in algorithms and complexity, systems performance modeling and analysis, numerical analysis and optimization.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 28, 2022, 11:58:01 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 28, 2022, 11:50:06 AM

Where do you put nursing?

I hadn't exactly included it in STEM, but I could easily see the argument that it should be included. 

A search of the googles with the question "is nursing part of STEM" suggests there's a lot of disagreement on that, with some saying yes and others no.

Even our own government doesn't agree, apparently: https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahhedgecock/2016/03/29/is-nursing-a-stem-field-does-it-matter/

Quote

The U.S. Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), for instance, includes nursing in its list of STEM fields (http://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-3/an-overview-of-employment.htm) as, at minimum, STEM-adjacent--but the Department of Commerce's Economics and Statistics Administration does not (http://www.esa.doc.gov/sites/default/files/stemfinalyjuly14_1.pdf). Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) doesn't include nursing on its list of STEM fields that make non-citizens eligible for a visa extension (https://www.ice.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Document/2016/stem-list.pdf).

The way BLS categorizes nursing is complicated (as, it seems, is the way most people seem to categorize nursing): While it's included in a very broad list of STEM fields, it's more properly categorized under a secondary STEM "domain," along with other health-related professions. When asked why the agency categorizes nursing the way it does, a spokesperson was careful to note that "there’s no single official definition of 'STEM,' and a different one might work better for another user."

ICE declined to comment for this story.

The Department of Commerce (https://www.forbes.com/companies/department-of-commerce/) , on the other hand, takes its cues from the National Science Foundation, which supports "all fields of fundamental science and engineering (http://www.nsf.gov/about/what.jsp)." Nursing is an applied field, not necessarily focused on the fundamentals of physical sciences. No pure science research, no STEM designation. (Going beyond NSF designations, the DOC also doesn't consider social sciences to be STEM.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 28, 2022, 11:58:51 AM

Quote from: rolltidefan on January 28, 2022, 11:41:43 AM

to me, arts =/= art history.

we need few art historians. i'm fine with a large population of artists, to a degree. but much the same way a population of too many engineers wouldn't be a good thing either.

in fact, overall, we're probably "too educated" in the sense that we have too many people going to college for fields that don't need that level of population/concentration. we need more in ag and technical degrees.

i put "too educated" in "" because, imo, we're overall terribly educated, but too many people have a piece of paper saying they're special and not enough willing to stand up and show it. there's tons of great opportunities for fantastic jobs like welding, electrician, plumbing, mechanic, tech technician, nursing and several others i'm sure.

I've been a big proponent of Voc Ed for a long time for this reason.  There are a LOT of college majors and even grad school majors that have a hard time finding jobs but if you know how to weld or fix HVAC systems, you'll always find offers.  

The other aspect here is the massive gulf between those to GO to college and those who GRADUATE from college.  When you add the two together you have a massive number of people wasting a massive amount of time and resources to go to college for no benefit.  They either get a worthless degree or no degree at all.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 28, 2022, 12:02:19 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on January 28, 2022, 11:58:51 AM

I've been a big proponent of Voc Ed for a long time for this reason.  There are a LOT of college majors and even grad school majors that have a hard time finding jobs but if you know how to weld or fix HVAC systems, you'll always find offers. 

The other aspect here is the massive gulf between those to GO to college and those who GRADUATE from college.  When you add the two together you have a massive number of people wasting a massive amount of time and resources to go to college for no benefit.  They either get a worthless degree or no degree at all. 

at least they get the debt to show for it!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 12:15:49 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 11:43:54 AM

Yeah, but I bet the US has more lawyers than China does.

This forum has more Lawyers than china does.....not that there's anything wrong with that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 12:20:47 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 28, 2022, 11:52:07 AM

Sometimes. Didn’t they just build a bunch of empty cities to make their GDP look extra shiny?

That's true when my brother went there on business4-5-6 yrs back he asked his escort(commissar really) about all the building and it was for the future was the answer.Many/most were vacant the next time he returned

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 28, 2022, 12:26:59 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 28, 2022, 11:45:14 AM

Not sure what it is today at Purdue, but it was ECE when I was there as well.

That said, it was still separated from CS.

As I say above, in my estimation a key differentiator is that CS is a little bit more focused on software application development and is more abstracted from the hardware. Whereas the computer engineering folks may do just as much coding, but it's more likely to be a firmware focus where the code is inextricably linked to the hardware, i.e. making an electrical or electromechanical system do something.

There's enough overlap that learning one can lay the groundwork to do the other, with the exception that a CS major may be able to be a great firmware engineer, but that CS major is probably never going to be doing analog circuit design.

(Granted, most EEs will never touch analog circuit design... Analog experts these days are few and far between, and extraordinarily well compensated as a result.)

Yes all is true, my point being the the "computer industry" is vast, and rapidly growing, and both CS and EEs are required for it.  Industries in which MEs are common, are either not growing as quickly, or in some cases are declining.

Hence, I'm not surprised that EE is the most common of engineering disciplines.  I probably could have spelled that out more clearly in my initial response.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2022, 12:29:27 PM

ME would be much more common if we did more manufacturing here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 28, 2022, 12:31:10 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2022, 12:29:27 PM

ME would be much more common if we did more manufacturing here.

Of course.  In a roundabout way, that's pretty much the point I was making.

Sadly we've also allowed tons of our EE jobs to move overseas as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 12:40:07 PM

We employed some Paper Science and Engineering types who made some serious change and lived in the country where the plants were.  If you like that lifestyle, it's a great major.  Low COL and great scenery and hunting etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 28, 2022, 12:48:51 PM

For a while, my cousin headed up marketing for the Quilted Northern Bath Tissue division at Georgia Pacific.  He was still pretty young and was dating at the time, so he used to tell women he was in the "paper industry."  He was making all kinds of bank, so ultimately it worked out fine for him... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 12:56:06 PM

Well, he was, sort of.  We had brand managers who were all MBAs and they did well, if they languished they'd snag a great job somewhere else.

They were up or out in that field, and they ran the company, still do.  They couldn't understand R&D and it hurt us a lot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 01:00:34 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 28, 2022, 12:48:51 PM

For a while, my cousin headed up marketing for the Quilted Northern Bath Tissue division at Georgia Pacific.  He was still pretty young and was dating at the time, so he used to tell women he was in the "paper industry."  He was making all kinds of bank, so ultimately it worked out fine for him...

Others crap were his bread and butter

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 28, 2022, 01:01:14 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 11:43:54 AM

Yeah, but I bet the US has more lawyers than China does.

Without even the pretext of rights, you need many fewer lawyers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 28, 2022, 01:02:46 PM

Wow. 

Clearly I need to post more links about the housing market, and do it more often.

From that sprung multiple pages whatever this is about. 😂😂😂😂

And not a single comment about the stuff I posted.🥴🥴


I wonder what would’ve happened if I had posted articles about, whatever this is about?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 01:05:02 PM

I think folks don't often click links without perhaps a paragraph of explanation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 28, 2022, 01:22:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 01:05:02 PM

I think folks don't often click links without perhaps a paragraph of explanation.

True.  That’s why I wrote one. 

I think 847 read, then transitioned immediately to this topic.

Degrees/Jobs?

here is what I know about degrees:

Mine:
1 Bachelor of Business Admin - Major Finance/Econ
2 Master of Science in Finance- Corporate Finance/ Investment

My kids:
Kid 1- Bachelors Degree- Nursing
Soon to be Doctorate, CRNA
kid 2-Bachelors- Biomedical Engineering

Guess which one came out of school with a much higher compensation package lol. Soon to change.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 28, 2022, 01:50:41 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 28, 2022, 01:22:32 PM

True.  That’s why I wrote one. 

I think 847 read, then transitioned immediately to this topic.

Degrees/Jobs?

here is what I know about degrees:

Mine:
1 Bachelor of Business Admin - Major Finance/Econ
2 Master of Science in Finance- Corporate Finance/ Investment

My kids:
Kid 1- Bachelors Degree- Nursing
Soon to be Doctorate, CRNA
kid 2-Bachelors- Biomedical Engineering

Guess which one came out of school with a much higher compensation package lol. Soon to change.

Kid 1 took the early lead, but is gonna get chased down?

(I was going to make a point to read the housing stuff, but I’m trying to balance posting with doing my actual job)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2022, 02:16:39 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 28, 2022, 01:50:41 PM

Kid 1 took the early lead, but is gonna get chased down?

(I was going to make a point to read the housing stuff, but I’m trying to balance posting with doing my actual job)

The other way around, most likely.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 28, 2022, 02:18:17 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 28, 2022, 01:50:41 PM

Kid 1 took the early lead, but is gonna get chased down?

(I was going to make a point to read the housing stuff, but I’m trying to balance posting with doing my actual job)

Lol I get it. I am posting between zoom calls and emails.

The younger one came out of school with nearly a six figure salary in engineering, from MSU 
The other one came out with her nursing degree from University of Michigan for the salary was quite a bit less than that, however she’s about to hit the payday with her cRNA and probably will start north of 200 K

😂. I always tease them that my retirement plan is I will be living in their basement. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 28, 2022, 02:21:11 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 28, 2022, 01:02:46 PM

Wow.

Clearly I need to post more links about the housing market, and do it more often.

From that sprung multiple pages whatever this is about. 😂😂😂😂

And not a single comment about the stuff I posted.🥴🥴


I wonder what would’ve happened if I had posted articles about, whatever this is about?

$10K isn't enough for me to move to Arkansas :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 28, 2022, 02:24:48 PM

Yeah I was gonna ask for an executive summary of the housing articles, to determine whether or not I should bother reading them... :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 28, 2022, 02:32:57 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 28, 2022, 02:24:48 PM

Yeah I was gonna ask for an executive summary of the housing articles, to determine whether or not I should bother reading them... :)

I read them because I hoped they would tell me when this stupid housing market is going to crash due to unsustainable prices, so I can actually buy something.

I did not get what I was looking for lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 28, 2022, 02:41:37 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 28, 2022, 02:18:17 PM

Lol I get it. I am posting between zoom calls and emails.

The younger one came out of school with nearly a six figure salary in engineering, from MSU
The other one came out with her nursing degree from University of Michigan for the salary was quite a bit less than that, however she’s about to hit the payday with her cRNA and probably will start north of 200 K

😂. I always tease them that my retirement plan is I will be living in their basement.

Interesting. I’ve not interacted with that world in a bit, but I know a few years back, you were printing money with a nursing degree.

I’m also used to the older ways in which a nursing doctorate was basically just to teach. People who got them were looked at not unlike art history majors (you got the extra education for what now?). Now I see they have tweaked that to get you into anesthesia.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 28, 2022, 02:43:32 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 28, 2022, 02:32:57 PM

I read them because I hoped they would tell me when this stupid housing market is going to crash due to unsustainable prices, so I can actually buy something.

I did not get what I was looking for lol.

Lotsa cheap land next to Fearless' dirt farm in Iowa.  I hear that would be a great place to move.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2022, 03:08:01 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 28, 2022, 01:02:46 PM

Wow.

Clearly I need to post more links about the housing market, and do it more often.

From that sprung multiple pages whatever this is about. 😂😂😂😂

And not a single comment about the stuff I posted.🥴🥴


I wonder what would’ve happened if I had posted articles about, whatever this is about?

Sorry bud.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 28, 2022, 03:29:07 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 28, 2022, 02:24:48 PM

Yeah I was gonna ask for an executive summary of the housing articles, to determine whether or not I should bother reading them... :)

Damn Utee, they are super short!😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 28, 2022, 03:30:08 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 28, 2022, 02:41:37 PM

Interesting. I’ve not interacted with that world in a bit, but I know a few years back, you were printing money with a nursing degree.

I’m also used to the older ways in which a nursing doctorate was basically just to teach. People who got them were looked at not unlike art history majors (you got the extra education for what now?). Now I see they have tweaked that to get you into anesthesia.

Spot on.  Apparently it’s only a recent development that they made the cRNA program a doctorate versus a masters program. And yes she did make some good coin with a nursing degree, but that engineering degree was a hot mama at least a couple years back anyway. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 28, 2022, 03:30:52 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2022, 03:08:01 PM

Sorry bud.

That’s what makes this place so freaking funny and cool

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 28, 2022, 03:50:08 PM

Yeah nursing is it - my wife got her undergrad in biology but went to the local community college to get her LPN, which is basically a two year nursing degree, and she might clear six figures this year

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 28, 2022, 03:53:52 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 28, 2022, 03:50:08 PM

Yeah nursing is it - my wife got her undergrad in biology but went to the local community college to get her LPN, which is basically a two year nursing degree, and she might clear six figures this year

I had a family member who got a history degree, and after a few years of realizing that wasn’t it went back to nursing school.

it helped to work in the Bay Area, but there’s a reason neither of her kids had to borrow money for college

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on January 28, 2022, 04:28:06 PM

Any civil engineers want to move to Pittsburgh?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2022, 05:04:00 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 28, 2022, 02:18:17 PM

Lol I get it. I am posting between zoom calls and emails.

Just get Covid and then you have all the time in the world to post.....except that I'm producing a 30-team order for Whoa Nellie, including 20 FCS teams I get to make from scratch!  
Funnnnn!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 28, 2022, 05:36:59 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2022, 05:04:00 PM

Just get Covid and then you have all the time in the world to post.....except that I'm producing a 30-team order for Whoa Nellie, including 20 FCS teams I get to make from scratch! 
Funnnnn!

And…PROFIT!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2022, 05:51:30 PM

Quote from: ELA on January 28, 2022, 04:28:06 PM

Any civil engineers want to move to Pittsburgh?

Does PA require a separate license for structural engineering? If so, I'm out.

Illinois and some other states require an SE. The PE does not cut it alone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2022, 05:52:42 PM

Kind of ironic that the POTUS was in Pittsburgh today and a bridge collapsed. Given that it's a main artery, it's a blessing nobody was hurt.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on January 28, 2022, 07:40:52 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2022, 05:52:42 PM

Kind of ironic that the POTUS was in Pittsburgh today and a bridge collapsed. Given that it's a main artery, it's a blessing nobody was hurt.

I will agree to any increased spending that actually goes into smart upgrades to our failing infrastructure

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 28, 2022, 07:46:53 PM

Quote from: ELA on January 28, 2022, 07:40:52 PM

I will agree to any increased spending that actually goes into smart upgrades to our failing infrastructure

Yes. Me too 

but you might want to check out where that infrastructure money is really going. You may be disappointed. If you’re thinking roads and bridges and things like that, then you will definitely be disappointed. 

if you like traffic cameras to give more robotic speeding tickets, and programs to make sure contractors being hired are minorities, and things like that then you will not be disappointed. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on January 28, 2022, 07:48:14 PM

That's why I said smart upgrades, and all to infrastructure.  Roads, bridges, railings, power grid, gas lines that were installed in the 40s, water lines leaking lead...

And just for badge...MORE DAMS!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2022, 08:26:07 PM

The richest, most prodigious country the world has ever seen.....and the place is a dump.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2022, 12:11:35 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2022, 05:52:42 PM

Kind of ironic that the POTUS was in Pittsburgh today and a bridge collapsed. Given that it's a main artery, it's a blessing nobody was hurt.

Place must be a shithole.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 29, 2022, 12:29:33 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 29, 2022, 12:11:35 AM

Place must be a shithole.

(Checks map. It's not South Florida.)

Yeah, it checks out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2022, 07:54:35 AM

My thought many years back was to add a nickel a gallon Federal gas tax each January for some period of time, say ten years, and put the funds in the Fed Highway Trust Fund.  If gasoline prices spiked, a President could reduce the tax for a short period of time, but most wouldn't notice a nickel a gallon, and it would be dedicated to rebuilding as needed.  

That said, another issue I see around here is huge sums spent rebuilding interchanges and building toll express lanes (which pay for themselves, maybe).  The I-75 toll express lanes were fabulously expensive and includes the longest bridge in the state.  Meanwhile none of that can be used for mass transit.  I'd guess for the same money one could have extended MARTA parallel to I75, but of course MARTA is not something wealthy people ride in general.  The outer counties keep voting it down.

We're lucky in this state that a lot of the roads were built fairly recently and the weather isn't as hard on the pavement.  Our sales tax here is 8.9% in part due to MARTA and TPLOST which is another tax for transportation needs by the city.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2022, 08:11:44 AM

Buffett's Apple investment just went up by $9.8 billion (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/28/buffetts-berkshire-hathaway-gains-8-billion-in-one-day-on-apple.html)

Sort of notable.  I know folks would like to tax this, but there is an obvious issue with that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 29, 2022, 08:18:23 AM

I need to get up and go for a short run, but it’s basically freezing outside. So getting out of bed is happening slowly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 29, 2022, 08:23:03 AM

McDonald’s ends 2021 strong, but rising costs ding profit - Chicago Sun-Times (suntimes.com) (https://chicago.suntimes.com/business/2022/1/27/22904675/mcdonalds-strong-finish-2021-rising-costs-ding-profit)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2022, 08:25:12 AM

EV vs. Gas: Is 1,000 Miles LTS the Metric of the Future? (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/features/1000-mile-legal-trip-speed-metric-ev-vs-gas/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR2ssFhYZJYlLTMXbRc4rYfukpn0ybgzBA2qFvn21Xl8NkRi0EcrYSuXCpY)

Beyond two outliers, every EV needs between 15.3 hours (Lucid Air, 65.4 mph average (https://www.motortrend.com/cars/lucid/air/)) and 23.5 hours (Mini Cooper SE, 42.6 mph (https://www.motortrend.com/cars/mini/cooper-se/)). That means driving a kilomile in that Lucid only takes 4 percent longer than in a combustion vehicle, whereas in the Mini you'll spend 60 percent longer on the road. The average of the DC fast-charge vehicles was 18.2 hours/55.5 mph, or 24 percent longer than the average combustion vehicle. Numbers that are sure to improve greatly over 15 more years of continuous progress in battery chemistry, EV powertrain efficiency, and charging speeds. Those outliers? The Chinese Kandi city car features a tiny battery and no DC fast-charging, so it would have to stop 19 times for a 7-hour charge each time, resulting in a 6.6-mph average speed. Road-trip torture. Similarly, a Nissan Leaf S (https://www.motortrend.com/cars/nissan/leaf/) lacking the $1,690 Quick Charge option would take 35 hours to make the trip, stopping five times for a four-hour charge, averaging 42.6 mph.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 29, 2022, 09:37:23 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 29, 2022, 12:29:33 AM

(Checks map. It's not South Florida.)

Yeah, it checks out.

are you suggesting south florida is not a shithole?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 29, 2022, 09:57:35 AM

Cold as hell today. Gonna be a lot of college basketball and yelling at the kids to clean up their messes. Got some stuff to make meatballs - main flavoring will be parmesan, pancetta, anchovies, and fennel. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2022, 10:00:49 AM

Quote from: rolltidefan on January 29, 2022, 09:37:23 AM

are you suggesting south florida is not a shithole?

That's what we've been told.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2022, 10:05:47 AM

25°F here with a very light cover of snow, hardly any.  Blue sky at least, hope to take a walk shortly, my ankle is finally a bit better, still very sore.

We have two new restaurants locally I want to try, one is Persian and one American, whatever that means, both in Colony Square which was "renewed" to the tune of $400 million recently, it's actually well done I think.

Saints + Council - Midtown, Atlanta, Atlanta, GA (saintsandcouncil.com) (https://saintsandcouncil.com/)

A guy I know started this, I guess he's the GM/owner.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 29, 2022, 10:28:46 AM

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CZPSrNBJ6gH/?utm_medium=share_sheet


fearless?   That you ?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 29, 2022, 10:34:26 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 29, 2022, 10:28:46 AM

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CZPSrNBJ6gH/?utm_medium=share_sheet


fearless?  That you ?

Naw, that's the kid someone let Fearless babysit a couple times. 

Sharing lessons with the youths. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 29, 2022, 10:39:22 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 29, 2022, 08:23:03 AM

McDonald’s ends 2021 strong, but rising costs ding profit - Chicago Sun-Times (suntimes.com) (https://chicago.suntimes.com/business/2022/1/27/22904675/mcdonalds-strong-finish-2021-rising-costs-ding-profit)

interesting. sales increased 13% (us only operations 7.5%) while labor costs increased only 10% (globally, i guess? or us only? doesn't specify) for the 4th qtr.

what that article doesn't tell you is that net income rose 19% for the qtr and 59% year over year. no info on labor cost increase % annually. operating income rose 12% for the qtr, 23% if you exclude some unusual and infrequent items. op income rose 41% year over year.

https://corporate.mcdonalds.com/content/dam/gwscorp/assets/investors/financial-information/earnings-release/Q4%20Earnings%20Release%20-%2099.1.pdf

funny how article titles and info in the body can change how things look. like this one below. despite increase in labor and food costs, profits "soared" 59% from prior year to record $7.5b, and % increase in 4th qtr sales in us only was 13.8% from prior year - the highest increase ever. (both of those #'s slightly misleading as 4th qtr 2020 and whole year 2020 was pandemic bad).

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/27/business/mcdonalds-earnings.html

Price increases on Big Macs, Chicken McNuggets and other food items helped McDonald’s more than offset sharp rises in food and labor costs and propelled the company’s revenues for 2021 to the highest level since 2016.
McDonald’s said in a financial report on Thursday that global revenues topped $23.2 billion last year, a 21 percent jump from 2019 and the highest level since reaching $24.6 billion in 2016. Profit soared 59 percent from a year earlier, to $7.5 billion.
In the United States, comparable McDonald’s restaurant sales in the fourth quarter grew 13.8 percent from a year earlier — the highest increase ever — from a combination of menu price increases, promotions around the McRib and the Crispy Chicken Sandwich, and the company’s digital loyalty program, McDonald’s said.

the nytime article doesn't say what the price increase was, but a couple google searches said was 6% over prior year.

https://www.shefinds.com/collections/mcdonalds-menu-items-price-increase-2021/
https://www.eatthis.com/news-mcdonalds-just-revealed-how-much-its-raising-its-prices-this-year/

so a 6% increase in prices not only offsets the 10% increased labor cost and also the 4% increase food supply cost, it does so in such a manner to increase profits 59% from prior year (25% over 2 years prior).

fwiw, while those %'s are a bit misleading due to 2020 covid, it's not just a pandemic down year comparison, either. mcd's posted profits of $6.0b and $5.9b in 2019 and 2018, and 2020 (pandemic year) was $4.7b. that's a 25% increase from 2019 and 27% over 2018. and of course 2021 had covid issues as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2022, 10:43:27 AM

Yeah, your final paragraph is an important one.  I see a lot of people in my industry and others taking 2021's Year-over-Year increases without any context.  The truth is the bottom dropped out of many industries in 2020.

For my forecasting purposes, I completely ignore 2020 and use our historical demand and seasonality from around 2015-2019.

*For anything beyond 2022, I'm also ignoring 2021's record results, because I know that demand is going to level off and then drop dramatically. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 29, 2022, 10:44:52 AM

also, that 10% increase in labor costs got the ave wage up to $13, with min being $11. their goal is $15 by 2024, so another 15% increase on the ave, or 36% it they meant the min.

from those other articles, that 6% price increase is expected to stay same for 2022.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 29, 2022, 10:52:05 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 29, 2022, 10:43:27 AM

Yeah, your final paragraph is an important one.  I see a lot of people in my industry and others taking 2021's Year-over-Year increases without any context.  The truth is the bottom dropped out of many industries in 2020.

For my forecasting purposes, I completely ignore 2020 and use our historical demand and seasonality from around 2015-2019.

*For anything beyond 2022, I'm also ignoring 2021's record results, because I know that demand is going to level off and then drop dramatically.

no doubt. and it'll be used both ways. like that 10% increase in labor costs, was that because half their workforce quit and went on welfare for half the year? or actual increases? can't tell in financials available cause the ones out now don't have info in them and the one that will isn't out yet.

and i already showed how the sales/profits increased can be misleading.

even without pandemic stuff, those numbers for huge corps can be misleading. they had a stock sale in Japan (increase) and a major business acquisition (decrease) included in operating income. that's not usually where those go, and i'm not sure why they were there, tbh. those #'s represent only about 4% of operating income for the qtr, but changes the % change from same qtr in prior year by almost double, so it can be significant.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 29, 2022, 11:02:54 AM

We really won't know much about any of these numbers until probably 2023 at the earliest. I just thought the article was interesting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2022, 11:04:37 AM

I won't speak to service industries, but right now in most manufacturing industries, costs are up across the board.  The labor market has become super-competitive, so labor is up.  Those are market forces, not government programs, of course.

Raw materials are up as well for numerous reasons.  One of those is because THEIR labor costs are up for the same reasons.  Additionally, as so many OEMs come back and place huge orders, the suppliers have more demand than supply.  So the price goes up again, due to natural market forces.

Limited supply of trucks, boats, and airplane cargo space, causes all of those costs to increase, but only part of that is a labor cost impact. Limited availability of dock workers in the nation's largest ports is making a huge impact as well, this IS a labor cost impact.

As an OEM, we're pushing some of those costs on to customers, but we're also eating a bunch of it.  We can only do so much in the free market and our competitors are dying to steal market share from us, we have to strike a balance.

All of that to say it's all very complicated and pointing to one factor as the primary driver is invalid.  At the same time, labor cost increases factor into the equation at every single level of the value chain, so they're additive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 29, 2022, 11:09:00 AM

Salaries in my business are through the roof and approaching the moon. There just are not enough people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2022, 11:13:23 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 29, 2022, 11:09:00 AM

Salaries in my business are through the roof and approaching the moon. There just are not enough people.

Goes back to the question we were asking a couple of days ago (and we've been discussing since Summer 2020)-- where did all the workers go?

They didn't all find success and gainful employment in New Market jobs-- they didn't all abandon waiting tables and driving trucks and working on the docks and surveying land, to become social media influencers or remote logistics planners or bakers operating out of their home kitchens.

There's an enormous number of people that just stopped working in March 2020 and never came back.  I wish I knew how they could afford that, I wouldn't mind retiring right now myself.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 29, 2022, 11:30:47 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 29, 2022, 11:13:23 AM

There's an enormous number of people that just stopped working in March 2020 and never came back.  I wish I knew how they could afford that, I wouldn't mind retiring right now myself.

They're not lying around in hammocks.

If your life sucks and you're just getting by with a job
AND
your life sucks and you're just getting by without a job

it becomes a pretty easy decision.  This seems to be lost on many who can't figure out why the slave class isn't eager to get back to "work."

(https://i.imgur.com/do6rBWe.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2022, 03:00:18 PM

It's a mystery, I thought some of it was moms unable to find care for their youngsters, but UE among me remains about the same as women.  We just had brunch at Saints and Concil and talked with their GM, he mentioned how tough it was hiring, and he's paying handsomely.  It's the same everywhere and I can't figure out who left the force.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 29, 2022, 03:18:51 PM

Well, I'd highlight that over 200,000 people aged 18-64 were permanently removed from the eligible workforce in the US since March 2020. Another 200,000 in the 65-74 age range were permanently removed as well, although that's a much less common age to be working...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2022, 03:54:32 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 29, 2022, 11:30:47 AM

They're not lying around in hammocks.

If your life sucks and you're just getting by with a job
AND
your life sucks and you're just getting by without a job

it becomes a pretty easy decision.  This seems to be lost on many who can't figure out why the slave class isn't eager to get back to "work."

(https://i.imgur.com/do6rBWe.jpg)

Slave class.  Lulz.  Spoken like someone who's never known slavery. Or worked as a server in a restaurant.  Your white privilege is showing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2022, 04:01:05 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 29, 2022, 03:18:51 PM

Well, I'd highlight that over 200,000 people aged 18-64 were permanently removed from the eligible workforce in the US since March 2020. Another 200,000 in the 65-74 age range were permanently removed as well, although that's a much less common age to be working...

Not making light of the death and misery coming from this disease (or any other), but 200,000 is a drop in the bucket compared to the 10 million or so current unfilled job openings.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2022, 04:06:08 PM

I'd figure the "slave class" works because they need money.  I don't know why suddenly they wouldn't need money unless they get it from other sources, either illegally or from mom and dad et al.  I worked to get money to live, and retire, I mostly didn't enjoy it, I would not have worked had I not needed the income.

I see ads for basic jobs everywhere paying $15 an hour.  How are folks getting by with no income?  Unemployment is low, the missing factor is seen in thelabor force participation rate.  We have about 156 million people working today.  It's down quite a bit from preCOVID, about 2 million not working and not seeking work.

(https://i.imgur.com/LSWsUr0.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 29, 2022, 04:06:30 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 29, 2022, 11:13:23 AM

Goes back to the question we were asking a couple of days ago (and we've been discussing since Summer 2020)-- where did all the workers go?

They didn't all find success and gainful employment in New Market jobs-- they didn't all abandon waiting tables and driving trucks and working on the docks and surveying land, to become social media influencers or remote logistics planners or bakers operating out of their home kitchens.

There's an enormous number of people that just stopped working in March 2020 and never came back.  I wish I knew how they could afford that, I wouldn't mind retiring right now myself.

Yes obviously it is probably multifaceted, but I wonder if a part was maybe accelerating retirement plans for a somewhat older workforce? Like people who were close to that suddenly had functional retirement and realized they could keep going that way?

I know dad spent several years putting off retirement. His companies issues during the pandemic forced them to lay him off, and that point why would he go back? Maybe this is a bigger cadre than we realize.

just a guess.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 29, 2022, 04:08:04 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 29, 2022, 04:01:05 PM

Not making light of the death and misery coming from this disease (or any other), but 200,000 is a drop in the bucket compared to the 10 million or so current unfilled job openings.

Do we have numbers on what that was before the pandemic started?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 29, 2022, 04:09:10 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 29, 2022, 04:06:30 PM

Yes obviously it is probably multifaceted, but I wonder if a part was maybe accelerating retirement plans for a somewhat older workforce? Like people who were close to that suddenly had functional retirement and realized they could keep going that way?

I know dad spent several years putting off retirement. His companies issues during the pandemic forced them to lay him off, and that point why would he go back? Maybe this is a bigger cadre than we realize.

just a guess.

I definitely think your right- it is a contributing factor for sure.

I personally know of 5-6 folks that fit that description. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 29, 2022, 04:12:13 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 29, 2022, 04:08:04 PM

Do we have numbers on what that was before the pandemic started?

I recall it being about 4,000,000.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2022, 04:15:01 PM

The labor force participation rate (https://www.bls.gov/cps/definitions.htm#lfpr) is the percentage of the working-age population — the civilian noninstitutional population age 16 or older — in the labor force.
The labor force (https://www.bls.gov/cps/definitions.htm#laborforce) measures how many Americans are working or actively seeking work — it’s the sum of the employed population and the unemployed population, where unemployed means a person is out of a job but has looked for work in the past month. Meanwhile, anyone who is not employed and has not looked for work in the past month is not considered to be in the labor force.
The number of people flowing in and out of the labor force affects the unemployment rate (https://www.bls.gov/cps/definitions.htm#ur), since the unemployment rate is a measure of how many people in the labor force are out of a job. For example, if total employment holds constant and unemployed Americans stop looking for work, thereby leaving the labor force, the unemployment rate will fall even though no jobs have been added. Conversely, if employment holds steady and recent graduates enter the labor force looking for work, the unemployment rate will rise even though no jobs have disappeared.
The labor force participation rate increased steadily during the last three decades of the 20th century before peaking in February 2000. Since then, the rate has fallen, partly because the American population is proportionally older (https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2016/article/pdf/labor-force-participation-what-has-happened-since-the-peak.pdf" /) compared to previous decades. The first baby boomers reached age 55 in 2001, and as the generation continued to age beyond what is considered prime working age — between 25 and 54 — the nation’s labor force participation rate also waned. The aging population wasn’t the only factor, though, as participation among prime working age men and women also declined (https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2018/beyond-bls/labor-force-participation-and-employment-rates-declining-for-prime-age-men-and-women.htm) in the first two decades of the 21st century.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2022, 04:17:05 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 29, 2022, 04:09:10 PM

I definitely think your right- it is a contributing factor for sure.

I personally know of 5-6 folks that fit that description. 

It might be a small percentage but I don't think many of the hundreds of thousands of missing bartenders and restaurant servers and dock workers and truck drivers fit that description.

I get it, those aren't the most desirable jobs.  But plenty of them pay a living wage.  People work to make money.  It's why I work.  And I worked crap jobs in high school because that's all I could get, and I needed the money, in order to do the things I wanted to do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 29, 2022, 04:33:00 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 29, 2022, 04:17:05 PM

It might be a small percentage but I don't think many of the hundreds of thousands of missing bartenders and restaurant servers and dock workers and truck drivers fit that description.

I mean, there's going to be no one single answer, but an amalgamation of a lot of things. All of those seem like interesting, different cases. 

Dockworkers if a fascinating one to me because I'm not sure the training involved. Obviously it's not the job it used to be. Truck driving is also intersting because it's such a non-differentiated product, I know it had some real issues with workforce abuse that got ingrained in part of the industry. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 29, 2022, 04:38:07 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 29, 2022, 03:54:32 PM

Slave class.  Lulz.  Spoken like someone who's never known slavery. Or worked as a server in a restaurant.  Your white privilege is showing.

How do you scoff at the idea WHILE specifying one of the largest and worst offenders - food service.  They're not paid a living wage.  It's criminal.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 29, 2022, 04:47:32 PM

Delivery services I have to believe have skyrocketed. Those are attractive jobs if compared to waiting tables, Kroger, etc. No boss, no shift, work when you feel like it. Tough to compete if the money is more or less equal and you own a car.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2022, 05:13:34 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 29, 2022, 04:38:07 PM

How do you scoff at the idea WHILE specifying one of the largest and worst offenders - food service.  They're not paid a living wage.  It's criminal. 

The word "criminal" generally means activity that is illegal, against a law.  It's not criminal to offer wages of say $12 an hour.  I don't know what a living wage comprises, it's usually a political talking point.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 29, 2022, 05:29:45 PM

If you think food severs are paid $12/hr by their restaurant, you're drunk.  Maybe it's changed a lot in the past 4-5 years, but they'd get $4-5 per hour because minimum wage didn't apply to them.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on January 29, 2022, 05:34:00 PM

Saw this today. Felt appropriate for our convo lol

(https://i.imgur.com/vhf049J_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2022, 05:37:41 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 29, 2022, 04:38:07 PM

How do you scoff at the idea WHILE specifying one of the largest and worst offenders - food service.  They're not paid a living wage.  It's criminal. 

You know how I know you've never waited tables?

I have.

And my family owned a restaurant for ten years.

And my sister is currently a server at a restaurant making a living wage, and so are many of her friends.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2022, 05:47:02 PM

All of that is precisely why I find this topic so puzzling.

My sister and several of her friends work for a local restaurant that shut down when COVID first hit, and the interior dining space stayed closed for several months.  They were all let go.  They had no income but collected unemployment.  When the restaurant reopened its dining room, most of them went back to work. A couple stayed on unemployment because they had extended unemployment benefits.  When those ended, the last remaining few went back to work.

But scores of thousands, never went back.  Some found other employment.  They most certainly all did not.  So how are they living?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on January 29, 2022, 05:55:58 PM

I’ve always wondered what waiters, waitresses, and servers really make, including tips. 

I always tip at least $5, and usually 15-25% of the bill. Usually in cash, but not always. I just assumed that if you had between 4-6 tables per hour, that was at least $20 per hour. My wife’s cousins were waitresses for years. Not a great living but they had a car, went on vacations, etc. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 29, 2022, 05:57:33 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 29, 2022, 05:47:02 PM

All of that is precisely why I find this topic so puzzling.

My sister and several of her friends work for a local restaurant that shut down when COVID first hit, and the interior dining space stayed closed for several months.  They were all let go.  They had no income but collected unemployment.  When the restaurant reopened its dining room, most of them went back to work. A couple stayed on unemployment because they had extended unemployment benefits.  When those ended, the last remaining few went back to work.

But scores of thousands, never went back.  Some found other employment.  They most certainly all did not.  So how are they living?

(https://www.internetmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/only-fans-logo-600x315.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 29, 2022, 06:50:40 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 29, 2022, 05:37:41 PM

You know how I know you've never waited tables?

I have.

And my family owned a restaurant for ten years.

And my sister is currently a server at a restaurant making a living wage, and so are many of her friends.

Tell me the restaurant pays her that living wage.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 29, 2022, 06:51:44 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 29, 2022, 05:57:33 PM

(https://www.internetmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/only-fans-logo-600x315.png)

I tried that already!!  All I got was a REALLY unsavory stalker guy and some extra deadbolts on my door.  
Never again!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 29, 2022, 07:04:14 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 29, 2022, 06:51:44 PM

I tried that already!!  All I got was a REALLY unsavory stalker guy and some extra deadbolts on my door. 
Never again!

😂😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 08:18:25 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 29, 2022, 05:29:45 PM

If you think food severs are paid $12/hr by their restaurant, you're drunk.  Maybe it's changed a lot in the past 4-5 years, but they'd get $4-5 per hour because minimum wage didn't apply to them. 

McDonald's salaries: How much does McDonald's pay? | Indeed.com

 (https://www.indeed.com/cmp/McDonald's/salaries)This is MCDONALDS, probably the LOWEST in the business.  Places that rely on tips of course pay less, but the server comes out way ahead or they'd leave and go to McDs.  i KNOW serves at nice restaurants have a nice income, for some it's a very nice income.  At any rate, they used to work at these jobs, and now many are not.  Why not?  Openings are going unfilled NOW that were filled preCOVID.

And of course whatever a living wage might be, a vague concept, is going to vary between SF, CA and say Jackson, Miss.  A lot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 30, 2022, 11:24:59 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 29, 2022, 06:50:40 PM

Tell me the restaurant pays her that living wage. 

Why are you stuck on what the restaurant pays?  The restaurant doesn't need to pay, that's what the tipping culture provides.

When discussing total income for an employee, and why some have abandoned that income, the amount the restaurant pays is irrelevant.  What the worker earns is the only factor that is relevant.

I have my own problems with the tipping culture, but it's here and it's not going anywhere.  If my sister didn't make enough money at her restaurant gig, she'd move on to something else.  But she doesn't need to, because she's satisfied with her current work arrangement, that pays her enough to live a lifestyle that she likes.

This is true of millions of servers.

But there's also a huge chunk of them that were making the same kind of money my sister was previously, and then after COVID, have opted out of the workforce.  How?  Where are they earning their income?


(I suppose Onlyfans is a possibility, but ALL of them?  Even the dudes??? :) )

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 11:32:21 AM

I saw a sign at a grocery store in Breckenridge offering nearly $18 and benefits to stock the shelves.  That's an expensive area, but it's an indication of how much places are offering now for basic work requiring no or little training.  And as noted, the question remains, folks were taking these jobs preCOVID and now millions have not reentered the work force despite many many lucrative job openings.

It could be a variety of reasons, early retirements, deaths due to COVID, women not able to find child care, folks who found they could manage OK with only one income ...

I think anyone who wants a job can find one today even if they are unskilled.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 30, 2022, 12:02:04 PM

Buckeye basketball, then Bungle football. Probably a day of watching my teams get drilled, but hey, at least we are in the fight.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 30, 2022, 12:10:01 PM

What/Who are OnlyFans - not going to click

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 30, 2022, 12:15:17 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 30, 2022, 12:10:01 PM

What/Who are OnlyFans - not going to click

It's a subscription platform for risqué images/porn. People can make and upload their own, have people pay to view. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 12:15:28 PM

OnlyFans is an online platform and app created in 2016 where people can pay for content (photos and videos, live streams) via a monthly membership. Content is mainly created by YouTubers, fitness trainers, models, content creators, public figures, in order to monetise their profession.Aug 20, 2021

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2022, 12:18:42 PM

All the sexy girls on youtube and twitch are tired of getting demonetized for showing too much of their girly bits.  So apparently onlyfans allows them to show it all.

"Thirsty" old men with lots of money subscribe a monthly amount to look. 

I guess you could say its an online strip club, with no actual touching.
It enables women to use their bodies to make a living wage, but without the bad parts of the other methods of doing so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 30, 2022, 12:20:18 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 11:32:21 AM

I saw a sign at a grocery store in Breckenridge offering nearly $18 and benefits to stock the shelves.  That's an expensive area, but it's an indication of how much places are offering now for basic work requiring no or little training.  And as noted, the question remains, folks were taking these jobs preCOVID and now millions have not reentered the work force despite many many lucrative job openings.

Places like Breckenridge fascinate me because I'm guessing this issue is population. It's monstrously expensive, so there are few/no poor folks. If you're poor and have a car, it's often not economical to drive over there. If you lack a car, no chance. So you either raise wages comically or are just shorthanded. 

There was a beach town in a state I once lived in that had the same issue. Some people were taking a bus in that took like 4.5 hours. And once the areas around the beach town started developing a bit more, people were less apt to take the extra 45 minutes each way. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 30, 2022, 12:21:05 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2022, 12:18:42 PM

All the sexy girls on youtube are tired of getting demonetized for showing too much of their girly bits.  So apparently onlyfans allows them to show it all.

"Thirsty" old men with lots of money subscribe a monthly amount to look. 

I guess you could say its an online strip club, with no actual touching.
It enables women to use their bodies to make a living wage, but without the bad parts of the other methods of doing so.

It's pure capitalism at work. 

Someone will pay for this, so I will sell it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2022, 12:23:16 PM

Yes, there will always be horny old guys with money to spend.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 30, 2022, 12:37:58 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 30, 2022, 12:15:17 PM

It's a subscription platform for risqué images/porn. People can make and upload their own, have people pay to view.

Great googly moogly what in the sam hill is the world coming to

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2022, 01:36:30 PM

You'd prefer that they do it in person and put themselves at risk of being groped, raped, and/or murdered?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 30, 2022, 01:47:05 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2022, 12:23:16 PM

Yes, there will always be horny old guys with money to spend.

True/ but don’t underestimate the volume of horny young guys    

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 01:53:24 PM

When we first moved here, I was showing my wife around Phipp's Plaza and we stopped in a bar for a drink outside on their patio.  I realized belatedly that the servers were all young women with skirts that barely covered their derriers.  I also noticed all the other patrons were older men and one in particular was slipping  bills to his server, a rather attractive blonde about 30ish.  He did it repeatedly and she took the money, I didn't see what may have occurred later.  We had our one glass of wine and moved along.

Phipp's Plaza is the most upscale shopping center of any size in the city, so it seemed a bit odd to me.  About a mile north of where we live is a stretch of Piedmont Ave which is sketchy, transitional a bit now, that has 4-5 strip clubs in one section.  One claims to be open 24/7.  Another had a sign "clothed until further notice" when COVID hit.  Another was where that weird dude shot the place up a while back.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 30, 2022, 01:57:09 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2022, 01:36:30 PM

You'd prefer that they do it in person and put themselves at risk of being groped, raped, and/or murdered?

1st of all they don't 'HAVE" to do anything of the sort.Secondly I wouldn't want to deprive you of your other source of on-line entertainment

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 02:04:14 PM

5 reasons why diesel engines make more torque than gasoline engines (motorauthority.com) (https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1116200_5-reasons-why-diesel-engines-make-more-torque-than-gasoline-engines?ta=&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A Trending)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 30, 2022, 02:07:56 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 02:04:14 PM

5 reasons why diesel engines make more torque than gasoline engines (motorauthority.com) (https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1116200_5-reasons-why-diesel-engines-make-more-torque-than-gasoline-engines?ta=&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A Trending)

I was just wondering about that this morning

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 01:09:17 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2022, 08:26:07 PM

The richest, most prodigious country the world has ever seen.....and the place is a dump. 

yup. it really started in the 80s and then just accelerated at rapid pace under Clinton, Bush II, and Obama. And then the crap they pulled during corona with the CARES Act and forced shutdowns just made it accelerate even more, shockingly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 01:09:32 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 29, 2022, 12:29:33 AM

(Checks map. It's not South Florida.)

Yeah, it checks out.

see, you're learning :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 01:12:02 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 29, 2022, 08:11:44 AM

Buffett's Apple investment just went up by $9.8 billion (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/28/buffetts-berkshire-hathaway-gains-8-billion-in-one-day-on-apple.html)

Sort of notable.  I know folks would like to tax this, but there is an obvious issue with that.

I would like to tax Apple into oblivion. And force them to bring jobs back to the United States if they want any tax breaks. Or possibly even you know, enforce anit-trust laws and break Apple and other monopolies up.

Apple's latest QTR they made $384 million a day in profit. Profit. A day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 01:14:12 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 29, 2022, 08:23:03 AM

McDonald’s ends 2021 strong, but rising costs ding profit - Chicago Sun-Times (suntimes.com) (https://chicago.suntimes.com/business/2022/1/27/22904675/mcdonalds-strong-finish-2021-rising-costs-ding-profit)

who says a massive publicly traded company always needs more and more profit? this is the problem with the US economy. these major publicly traded corporations only care about what they show on their financial statements from QTR to QTR. They play the short game, not the long game. And it's made the United States worse off.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 01:15:06 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on January 29, 2022, 09:37:23 AM

are you suggesting south florida is not a shithole?

you watch your tongue. and hey, everything can't be as nice as Alabama....:043: (talk about shitholes)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 31, 2022, 01:19:40 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 01:12:02 PM

Apple's latest QTR they made $384 million a day in profit. Profit. A day.

That's.....obscene,and they're not paying tax you say?That could NIL some program to an NC

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 01:22:54 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 29, 2022, 03:18:51 PM

Well, I'd highlight that over 200,000 people aged 18-64 were permanently removed from the eligible workforce in the US since March 2020.

yeah, I feel like this is kind of misleading. Shouldn't be lumping 18 year olds with 64 year olds. This disease is one where your risks of death grow significantly with age, obesity, and other underlying health conditions.

There have been about 5,000 COVID deaths people aged 18-29. About 15,000 deaths ages 30-39. And 37,000 deaths ages 40-49.

For some stupid reason they lump 50-64 year olds together in the official statistics- but it's 162,000+ deaths. Would be interested to see say 50-59 year olds vs 60-64 year olds. They should've broken those ages out.

But ages 65-74 are around 198,000 deaths (65 is "retirement" age btw), ages 75-84 are 221,000+ deaths, and ages 85+ and up are 223,000+ deaths. 65 and up is around 642,000 deaths of the 880,000 or so - just around 73%.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 01:24:47 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 31, 2022, 01:19:40 PM

That's.....obscene,and they're not paying tax you say?That could NIL some program to an NC

they pay tax, some years. some years not. every billionaire and every multi-billion dollar national US based multi-national conglomerate finds ways to use tax shelters and loop holes to avoid paying tax. it's just what they do. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 01:29:44 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 29, 2022, 04:01:05 PM

Not making light of the death and misery coming from this disease (or any other), but 200,000 is a drop in the bucket compared to the 10 million or so current unfilled job openings.

this. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 01:35:40 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 29, 2022, 04:06:08 PM

I'd figure the "slave class" works because they need money.  I don't know why suddenly they wouldn't need money unless they get it from other sources, either illegally or from mom and dad et al.  I worked to get money to live, and retire, I mostly didn't enjoy it, I would not have worked had I not needed the income.

Wouldn't call them slave class. They are more like feudalist serf class. And they work because they absolutely need money, they haven't seen real wage increase in 40+ fucking years, they live pay-check to pay-check, and have been forced to load up on debt to maintain living standards of the previous generations. Living standards in the United States have been getting worse. Not better. The costs of living have been sky-rocketing while your average worker has seen no real increase in wages- which is why they have to load up on freaking debt just to live and they live pay-check to pay-check.

George Carlin was 100% right when he said...The American dream is dead. You know why they call it the American dream? Because you have to be asleep to believe it. America is a big country club, and YOU ain't in it. He nailed it when he said we don't have real choice in this country, there is an illusion of choice.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 01:39:55 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 29, 2022, 05:37:41 PM

And my sister is currently a server at a restaurant making a living wage, and so are many of her friends.

depends on the restaurant. if a server works at a denny's - probably not making too much money. if a server works at Morton's or a Michelin star restaurant or some extremely over-priced super-popular high-end restaurant - those servers don't just make a living wage they can make stupid money.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 01:42:00 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 29, 2022, 05:57:33 PM

(https://www.internetmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/only-fans-logo-600x315.png)

no lie...if I was a really attractive woman I would just sit at home and do this. better looking the broad, more money she makes. some of these girls that are absolute smoke shows are making $30k a month or more just sitting their asses at home taking their clothes off and playing with themselves.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 01:43:31 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2022, 12:23:16 PM

Yes, there will always be horny old guys with money to spend.

and there will always be sexy whores to fill that need. thank god for sexy whores.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 01:45:23 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 30, 2022, 01:47:05 PM

True/ but don’t underestimate the volume of horny young guys   

that's all there are....horny guys. young and old. just horny guys. the old guys just typically got a lot more money than the young guys. An average man's sex drives are said to be 5x that of a woman's. I know people who have sex drives that are probably 50x that of a woman. I think we all know a friend or relative like this.... :043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 01:48:02 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 08:18:25 AM

McDonald's salaries: How much does McDonald's pay? | Indeed.com

 (https://www.indeed.com/cmp/McDonald's/salaries)This is MCDONALDS, probably the LOWEST in the business.  Places that rely on tips of course pay less, but the server comes out way ahead or they'd leave and go to McDs.  i KNOW serves at nice restaurants have a nice income, for some it's a very nice income.  At any rate, they used to work at these jobs, and now many are not.  Why not?  Openings are going unfilled NOW that were filled preCOVID.

And of course whatever a living wage might be, a vague concept, is going to vary between SF, CA and say Jackson, Miss.  A lot.

Just want to add- vast majority of "McDonalds" employees don't even work for McDonald's - they work for a franchisee who is nowhere near as big of a company nor has as much assets/wealth/revenue/profit as THE McDonalds corporation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 01:56:36 PM

WHOOPS. Looks like the mainstream media aka the mouth piece for the CIA/deep-state/military industrial complex gets it wrong, again. How shocking? Not. Ukrainian President rips into Biden/US for stoking fans of war with Russia. People really need to stop watching/reading NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, FOX, MSNBC, NYT, and Washington Post. They'd be soooooo much more well-informed, smarter, and just better off in general.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez9L8BSwRno


https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1487632948258123776?s=20&t=Xglh54momhmaYDftseCC_w

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 02:03:04 PM

this is gross. but hey, Raytheon changed their logo to be LGBTQEEFDD+ friendly, they celebrate gay pride and black history month! And they are singing the tune of diversity and inclusion! So woke! Let's all be gay and work in a racial paradise of a company while we openly push for war and build weapons to kill people all over the world! So WOKE! :043:

https://twitter.com/kenvogel/status/1487077037349212160?s=20&t=Blr8XMPtJzc29I702gfJ6A

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 02:10:31 PM

they called it all the way in 1988 - should be required reading in high schools. would have a much smarter, more enlightened, and more well-rounded population if it were.

https://www.amazon.com/Manufacturing-Consent-Political-Economy-Media-ebook/dp/B0055PJ4R0

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 02:20:10 PM

yeah, so can someone kill Klaus Schwab (who totally looks/feels like a real-life Bond villain) and destroy the world economic forum, please? anyone? since 2016 these cocks*ckers have been calling for people to own nothing, have no privacy, and that we'll all be happy for it. yeah, if people don't know anything...then who does? the billionaires and corporate masters that attend the WE forum in Davos...lol. how convenient.

this shit is real...and it's happening....and it's f**king scary. it's happening here in the US. BlackStone and other PE have been buying the F**K out of single-family homes and turning entire master-planned single-family communities that used to be owners- into renters during the last decade. And it's only accelerating.

https://twitter.com/wef/status/813869325635424256?s=20&t=pMHlcfql1UNheGWgtK5H6A

https://www.facebook.com/worldeconomicforum/videos/8-predictions-for-the-world-in-2030/10153920524981479/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/worldeconomicforum/2016/11/10/shopping-i-cant-really-remember-what-that-is-or-how-differently-well-live-in-2030/?sh=237dbe151735


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWRScUZPrWY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD-ioJM8v64

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 02:23:07 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 01:48:02 PM

Just want to add- vast majority of "McDonalds" employees don't even work for McDonald's - they work for a franchisee who is nowhere near as big of a company nor has as much assets/wealth/revenue/profit as THE McDonalds corporation.

That is indeed true, and not at all unique in the business.  Kiosks for ordering are here now, as an option, they will become the sole option, and in due time most of the food prep will be automated, they may have 2-3 overseers doing the work of 15.  I think it's doable now for a new kind of restaurant that serves only food amenable to automation.  If autonomous trucking becomes a thing, millions of truck drivers will be out of a job.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 02:25:41 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 02:23:07 PM

That is indeed true, and not at all unique in the business.  Kiosks for ordering are here now, as an option, they will become the sole option, and in due time most of the food prep will be automated, they may have 2-3 overseers doing the work of 15.  I think it's doable now for a new kind of restaurant that serves only food amenable to automation. If autonomous trucking becomes a thing, millions of truck drivers will be out of a job.

Self service kiosks will replace workers taking orders eventually, for sure. Think you'll always need people to make the food however. Not sold on robots being able to make food. I'll see it before I believe it. 

I am very skeptical that autonomous driving is around the corner as well. Even if it happens any time soon, which I highly doubt, you will still need a human in the truck behind the wheel making sure everything goes well. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 02:28:54 PM

I didn't say it would happen "any time soon", or even at all.  I said IF IT BECOMES A THING.  I read a wide range of projections on when it may occur, so I don't know.

And I do fully expect automated food prep in due time for many menu items.  I think cost is the only barrier today.  And by extension, we could reach a time when there are zero "unskilled" jobs for folks, though that is pretty far off I think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 31, 2022, 02:29:16 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 02:25:41 PM

Self service kiosks will replace workers taking orders eventually, for sure. Think you'll always need people to make the food however. Not sold on robots being able to make food. I'll see it before I believe it.

I am very skeptical that autonomous driving is around the corner as well. Even if it happens any time soon, which I highly doubt, you will still need a human in the truck behind the wheel making sure everything goes well.

They're already here.


Now, when will they be cost-effective enough to become ubiquitous at fast food joints?  Many years from now for sure.  But probably not many decades.


(https://i.imgur.com/JA426V8.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2022, 02:31:18 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 01:24:47 PM

they pay tax, some years. some years not. every billionaire and every multi-billion dollar national US based multi-national conglomerate finds ways to use tax shelters and loop holes to avoid paying tax. it's just what they do.

And we all know who enables this shit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 02:35:16 PM

We tax income, not wealth (in general).  I've noted before how a wealthy person does not need income to maintain a lofty lifestyle.  

The companies that avoid taxes, legally, do so by having tax losses in previous years as a carry forward, or by reinvesting in the business heavily to sock up their profits.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 02:44:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 02:35:16 PM

We tax income, not wealth (in general).  I've noted before how a wealthy person does not need income to maintain a lofty lifestyle. 

The companies that avoid taxes, legally, do so by having tax losses in previous years as a carry forward, or by reinvesting in the business heavily to sock up their profits.

yeah, the the big banks give them ridiculous 0% loans with no recourse or late fees vs their stock holdings bc the banks desperately want said billionaires companies corporate business which can be lucrative and the bullshit loans they give out are just a drop in the bucket in comparison- and it's not "income" but a loan. should not be legal, but unfortunately, it is. if this was not allowed, they'd HAVE to have income- which means they'd have to sell their stock holdings or they'd actually have to have their companies pay them a salary and not just compensate them in stock and stock options.

Companies carrying forward losses isn't the only way they avoid paying tax. It's one way, sure, but not the only way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 31, 2022, 02:47:09 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2022, 02:31:18 PM

And we all know who enables this shit.

Smart people with math skills. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 02:49:01 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 31, 2022, 02:47:09 PM

Smart people with math skills.

also people that are really good at decoding the 50 billion page tax code....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 02:49:23 PM

If you get stock options or stock, that is taxable when exercised or sold.  Options are taxable as earned income.  I don't know of any big banks giving 0% loans, that could be something that happens rarely, or not at all.  And I don't think it would be helpful to preclude loans on assets.

And of course when you sell stock kept for a year, you get capital gains tax rates and you don't pay FICA.

The pure fact is the wealthy do not need earned income, and they could always simply invest in municipals, and some do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 02:55:25 PM

in a funny twist...Neil Young had to delete that letter over his music being taken off Spotify, because he doesn't actually own his own music. The moron sold a 51% stake in his entire publishing catalogue to a company that has since been swallowed up by PE giant BlackStone. BlackStone owns controlling stake in his music, so it's not a decision he can make anyways. Spotify took his music down anyway. Good for them.

Find it funny how anyone is cheering for this guy and extolling his virtues, when (a) he's pushing for censorship which is tyranny, and (b) he's got a looooooong history of homophobia saying very disgusting things in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s about gay people- and when the HIV/AIDS crisis first hit he was spreading medical misinformation in the late 80s saying things in an interview with Rolling Stone (which had millions of readers back then) like he doesn't want some "fa**ot" handling his potatoes at a grocery store because he doesn't want to get AIDS. Whoops, not the way that disease spreads Neil Young! Sounds like a stand-up guy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 02:59:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 02:49:23 PM

If you get stock options or stock, that is taxable when exercised or sold.  Options are taxable as earned income.  I don't know of any big banks giving 0% loans, that could be something that happens rarely, or not at all.  And I don't think it would be helpful to preclude loans on assets.

And of course when you sell stock kept for a year, you get capital gains tax rates and you don't pay FICA.

The pure fact is the wealthy do not need earned income, and they could always simply invest in municipals, and some do.

they are never taxed if they are never sold. that's what the purpose of the billionaire loan scam is for.....

options are taxable as earned income yes- but those options can take years if not a decade or more to vest. the only reason Musk has recently been selling Tesla stock and paying tax is to exercise his stock options and get more stock at an incredibly cheap price compared to what Tesla is trading at right now.

And you really need to read up more, because that's exactly what big banks are doing right now. Bezos, Musk, and other billionaires are getting 0% loans secured against their stock holdings all in order to push their corporate banking to said bank giving them the personal loan. Conflict of interest, much? Go try and get a 0% loan from a big bank. Lol.

The super wealthy aren't investing in municipals to avoid paying tax. They are taking out virtually 0% loans.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2022, 02:59:39 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 02:49:01 PM

also people that are really good at decoding the 50 billion page tax code....

Or those in the swamp who wrote the tax code.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2022, 03:03:44 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 02:55:25 PM

in a funny twist...Neil Young had to delete that letter over his music being taken off Spotify, because he doesn't actually own his own music. The moron sold a 51% stake in his entire publishing catalogue to a company that has since been swallowed up by PE giant BlackStone. BlackStone owns controlling stake in his music, so it's not a decision he can make anyways. Spotify took his music down anyway. Good for them.

Find it funny how anyone is cheering for this guy and extolling his virtues, when (a) he's pushing for censorship which is tyranny, and (b) he's got a looooooong history of homophobia saying very disgusting things in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s about gay people- and when the HIV/AIDS crisis first hit he was spreading medical misinformation in the late 80s saying things in an interview with Rolling Stone (which had millions of readers back then) like he doesn't want some "fa**ot" handling his potatoes at a grocery store because he doesn't want to get AIDS. Whoops, not the way that disease spreads Neil Young! Sounds like a stand-up guy.

Neil Young sucks, and always has sucked. He is like this to me:

(https://i.imgur.com/jbiQ4OL.png)

Guy can't sing a lick, his songs suck, and his guitar work is WAY overrated. There are probably 1000 guys out there who do/did it better. If not more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 03:07:50 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2022, 03:03:44 PM

Neil Young sucks, and always has sucked. He is like this to me:

(https://i.imgur.com/jbiQ4OL.png)

Guy can't sing a lick, his songs suck, and his guitar work is WAY overrated. There are probably 1000 guys out there who do/did it better. If not more.

Oh I agree with you 100%. He's always been fucking awful.

I have no idea how he even has any fans or how he became famous in the first place. He can't sing at all and his music sucks. That's just a fact. The geriatric f**k has been getting major play in news and has been reintroduced to the culture all over this little stunt. Millions of people who had no idea who the f he even was now do.

Awesome publicity stunt if you want to get your name out there. The idiot knew he didn't control his own music. Not like he just forgot he sold it. The letter and his demands were nothing but a publicity stunt by him to get his irrelevant name out there again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 31, 2022, 03:19:33 PM

+2 on how badly Neil Young sucks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 31, 2022, 03:27:05 PM

Ive never really cared for his music either but I thought it was just me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2022, 03:27:21 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 31, 2022, 03:19:33 PM

+2 on how badly Neil Young sucks.

Hey hey, my my.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 31, 2022, 03:36:19 PM

Apparently Neil Young believes it’s OK to keep on “rocking in the free World” but doesn’t believe it’s OK to “talk in a free world”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 03:49:25 PM

There is an interesting dilemma if someone with a loud voice is spreading misinformation and the right of "Society" to have some control over it.  We do already have restrictions on free speech, it's not an absolute right.  And of course speech in any private forum can be controlled as deemed necessary by the owners.  So, should "we" counter hypothetical misinformation that is clearly damaging to larger societal interests?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 31, 2022, 03:51:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 03:49:25 PM

There is an interesting dilemma if someone with a loud voice is spreading misinformation and the right of "Society" to have some control over it.  We do already have restrictions on free speech, it's not an absolute right.  And of course speech in any private forum can be controlled as deemed necessary by the owners.  So, should "we" counter hypothetical misinformation that is clearly damaging to larger societal interests?

And all centers around your definition of “misinformation“

Who gets to decide?  If it’s the party in power and all of their supporters then that becomes an obvious problem doesn’t it now?  And who stops them from spreading miss information, which is an every day occurrence?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 03:55:11 PM

I don't see any articles saying the wealthy get ZERO interest loans from banks.  No doubt they get favorable rates because their collateral is solid.

American Billionaires Avoid Taxes by Borrowing Money: ProPublica (businessinsider.com) (https://www.businessinsider.com/american-billionaires-tax-avoidance-income-wealth-borrow-money-propublica-2021-6)

My guess is they pay something under one percent these days, but that isn't zero.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 03:58:10 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 03:49:25 PM

There is an interesting dilemma if someone with a loud voice is spreading misinformation and the right of "Society" to have some control over it.  We do already have restrictions on free speech, it's not an absolute right.  And of course speech in any private forum can be controlled as deemed necessary by the owners.  So, should "we" counter hypothetical misinformation that is clearly damaging to larger societal interests?

Lol, yeah no. This is just a stupid post. There is no arbiter of truth. The state, pharmaceutical companies, and corporate media are certainly NOT arbiters of truth.

Free speech/first amendment is an absolute right. And it applies to EVERYONE, not just journalists. The only time speech can be considered a crime is when it incites crimes or violence. In the civil courts there is slander/libel.

Other than that- LITERALLY EVERYTHING is fair game when it comes to freedom of speech/freedom of expression. PERIOD.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 04:00:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 03:55:11 PM

I don't see any articles saying the wealthy get ZERO interest loans from banks.  No doubt they get favorable rates because their collateral is solid.

American Billionaires Avoid Taxes by Borrowing Money: ProPublica (businessinsider.com) (https://www.businessinsider.com/american-billionaires-tax-avoidance-income-wealth-borrow-money-propublica-2021-6)

My guess is they pay something under one percent these days, but that isn't zero.

give me a break. there have been loans documented as low as .02%. that is essentially zero. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 04:04:52 PM

Free speech quite clearly is a limited right, there are many examples of this in the law.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 04:10:46 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 04:00:13 PM

give me a break. there have been loans documented as low as .02%. that is essentially zero.

OK, maybe so, I didn't find examples that low.  At any rate, it's all legal currently.

Some EU countries have had negative central bank rates, which is sort of interesting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 04:14:55 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 04:04:52 PM

Free speech quite clearly is a limited right, there are many examples of this in the law.

Lol. Maybe in the UK or other European countries.

In the US it’s almost an UNLIMITED right.

There are very narrow limited instances where the right doesn’t apply- which I just gave you. Inciting violence or threats of violence and death- and knowingly writing false things about people or knowing saying false things about people- libel & slander. And that’s it. Those are literally the only limits. 

Other than that, it’s fair game. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 04:20:43 PM

Ergo, it's clearly a limited right and is NOT absolute.  Here's yet another example:

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 31, 2022, 04:21:44 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 31, 2022, 03:51:32 PM

And all centers around your definition of “misinformation“

Who gets to decide?  If it’s the party in power and all of their supporters then that becomes an obvious problem doesn’t it now?  And who stops them from spreading miss information, which is an every day occurrence?

Well put. I have friends who argue for some ways to cap “misinformation,” but in the end, they’d be pretty unhappy if someone with a much different outlook had the wheel.

If we feel there’s something wrong out there, we can try to shout it down. Companies can do what they like. 

And of course, many people who stand tall on the barricade for their side’s free speech are often quick to ignore the free speech interests of others. Nowadays a lot of that takes place in the legal system. Laws and lawsuits designed to allow to sue based in content, which creates incentive to bleed speakers financially until it’s not worth the hassle of speaking freely. Interesting times, these.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 04:24:19 PM

The "cure" on misinformation could be worse than the disease.  I don't even know what a cure could comprise, but I do think some are able to purvey misinformation which is quite harmful to the public interest.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2022, 04:46:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 03:49:25 PM

There is an interesting dilemma if someone with a loud voice is spreading misinformation and the right of "Society" to have some control over it.  We do already have restrictions on free speech, it's not an absolute right.  And of course speech in any private forum can be controlled as deemed necessary by the owners.  So, should "we" counter hypothetical misinformation that is clearly damaging to larger societal interests?

The restrictions we have in this country on free speech are almost nil. 

• There's the oft-quoted (but largely misunderstood) "shouting fire in a crowded theater". 
• There's the "fighting words / incitement" case where words lead directly to violence, but it's EXTREMELY narrowly interpreted in jurisprudence terms.
• There's recourse for defamation, i.e. falsehoods intended to harm another person's personal or business interests. Note that I clearly say "falsehoods"--truth is always an ironclad legal defense to a defamation suit.
• There are restrictions in a commercial setting on making fraudulent claims in the advertisement of a product. 

But as HB points out, we don't have limitations on "someone with a loud voice spreading misinformation". Because the correct response to correcting misinformation is more speech countering the misinformation, not restriction on speech. Otherwise you get into a case where the government has the right to decide what is real information and what is misinformation, and that's going to end badly. 

Obviously the private forum, such as Spotify, is a completely different matter. The owners have the power there. The means of disseminating speech are, in those cases, private, and you cannot compel a private owner to host speech that they don't want to. 


The right to free speech doesn't mean that anyone has to print it, that the radio/TV has to give you airtime, etc. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2022, 04:50:45 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 04:20:43 PM

Ergo, it's clearly a limited right and is NOT absolute.  Here's yet another example:

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

Umm, that's a rebellion or insurrection. Maybe if you WAY stretched the "aid and comfort" clause to speech, but I don't think that's what that means... I think that refers to actual direct ASSISTANCE, not speech. 

If you say you think the Jan 6 insurrectionists were right and shouldn't go to jail, I don't think that counts as "aid and comfort". If you have one of the Jan 6 insurrectionists and there's a warrant out for their arrest, and you hide them in your basement so the authorities can't find/arrest them, THEN we're talking "aid and comfort". 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 04:50:56 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 04:24:19 PM

The "cure" on misinformation could be worse than the disease.  I don't even know what a cure could comprise, but I do think some are able to purvey misinformation which is quite harmful to the public interest.

if you're so worried about misinformation than you should want to shut down CNN, MSNBC, NYT, Fox News, and WaPo.

The "establishment/legacy/mainstream media" - whatever you want to call it - has been the single largest purveyor of misinformation this side of the US gov't.

Where are those WMD's in Iraq? Still waiting on them.....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 04:57:05 PM

Almost nil is not nil, and the restrictions are because of the public interest.  You also can't threaten a President obviously and there are limits on obscenities.  Speech showing a clear intent to discriminate or sexually harass is barred.

I just posted the question as to where the line should be drawn, and how.  

I don't know the answer to that.

6 Surprising Exceptions to Freedom of Speech | The Saturday Evening Post (https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2017/03/6-exceptions-to-freedom-of-speech/?utm_source=Google Grant - Freedom of)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 05:04:07 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 04:57:05 PM

Almost nil is not nil, and the restrictions are because of the public interest.  You also can't threaten a President obviously and there are limits on obscenities.  Speech showing a clear intent to discriminate or sexually harass is barred.

I just posted the question as to where the line should be drawn, and how. 

I don't know the answer to that.

6 Surprising Exceptions to Freedom of Speech | The Saturday Evening Post (https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2017/03/6-exceptions-to-freedom-of-speech/?utm_source=Google Grant - Freedom of)

jesus christ. stop. just stop. it's basically nil.

and H.R.347 isn't constitutional - at all - and it'll probably get challenged in the supreme court one day and it'll get struck down. give it time. it's only been a law for 9 years. not surprising it was the piece of shit "constitutional law professor" who had a nobel peace prize and a kill list, who took us from 2 wars to 7, who went on the assault and went after whistle-blowers and journalists like never before seen- who prosecuted more whistleblowers under the espionage act than every previous president combined- that signed that piece of shit law into existence.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 31, 2022, 05:06:09 PM

But you can threaten the president. I can think of 15 examples of that prior to this current president.


We allow foreigners from far away lands to say things like “death to America“ on social media but we want to shut down the guy who says hydroxylchloroquine helped him 

Again-There is no ultimate arbiter for the truth and what is miss information.  The only real choice is to let people have access to all of it and make up their own minds.

Censorship, especially if sponsored by the government, as a path to hell.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 05:07:23 PM

We have limits on free speech in the US under the law, it is not an absolute right, nor is it "basically nil".

The exceptions have been cited above, and we probably missed a few.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 05:09:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 05:07:23 PM

We have limits on free speech in the US under the law, it is not an absolute right, nor is it "basically nil".

The exceptions have been cited above, and we probably missed a few.

we have extremely narrow limits on free speech in the US.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 05:13:35 PM

As I said, it's not an absolute right.  There are limits, however one characterizes them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 05:16:08 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 31, 2022, 05:06:09 PM

But you can threaten the president. I can think of 15 examples of that prior to this current president.

We allow foreigners from far away lands to say things like “death to America“ on social media but we want to shut down the guy who says hydroxylchloroquine helped him

Again-There is no ultimate arbiter for the truth and what is miss information.  The only real choice is to let people have access to all of it and make up their own minds.

Censorship, especially if sponsored by the government, as a path to hell.

this, all day long. it amazes me that people do not see this. 

they view the government as some benevolent loving figure that is there to give you a warm hug and take care of you. newsflash: they aren't. the government is just a collection of people- many of them unelected. and if you give people tremendous power- they will abuse it. every single time. absolute power corrupts absolutely. our government has proven this time and time and time again. they are NOT to be trusted, period. people are people- and they can be shady f**king assholes who can get drunk with power, who will break rules, try to cover things up to maintain their power, and manipulate do things that benefit themselves and those close to them. 

but apparently we have people here who think censorship by the government is OK.

Might as well hand out social credit scores, mandate vaccine cards to go anywhere (even though the vaccines do not prevent transmission), let the government massively surveil it's own citizens - hell let's just be like China. F**k it. Who cares about freedom? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 05:18:43 PM

Not one person here has stated they think government censorship is OK, not a soul.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 31, 2022, 05:18:52 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 04:57:05 PM

Almost nil is not nil, and the restrictions are because of the public interest.  You also can't threaten a President obviously and there are limits on obscenities.  Speech showing a clear intent to discriminate or sexually harass is barred.

I just posted the question as to where the line should be drawn, and how. 

I don't know the answer to that.

6 Surprising Exceptions to Freedom of Speech | The Saturday Evening Post (https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2017/03/6-exceptions-to-freedom-of-speech/?utm_source=Google Grant - Freedom of)

I dont think this is the case
as an example the President in on record saying he will only consider a black woman for the SCOTUS
thats pretty clearly intent to discriminate

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 05:20:07 PM

Discriminate against preferred classes of people.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 31, 2022, 05:21:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 05:20:07 PM

Discriminate against preferred classes of people. 

you meant protected not preferred

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 31, 2022, 05:21:41 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 31, 2022, 05:06:09 PM

We allow foreigners from far away lands to say things like “death to America“ on social media but we want to shut down the guy who says hydroxylchloroquine helped him

Again-There is no ultimate arbiter for the truth and what is miss information.  The only real choice is to let people have access to all of it and make up their own minds.

We?

The second part is interesting. We do attach certain social guard rails. There are debates about that raging all over, where those should be. Some of those are probably good, others it’s more debatable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 05:22:35 PM

Yup, protected classes.  My bad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 31, 2022, 05:22:56 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 05:16:08 PM

but apparently we have people here who think censorship by the government is OK.

Do we?  I don't recall seeing anyone promote this idea on this message board, at least not during this discussion.

The current context of the discussion is a private party with a terrible singing voice attempting to put pressure on another private entity to stop broadcasting the opinions/entertainment/views of a third private party.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 31, 2022, 05:23:20 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 31, 2022, 05:18:52 PM

I dont think this is the case
as an example the President in on record saying he will only consider a black woman for the SCOTUS
thats pretty clearly intent to discriminate

I think this is a good example because it shows that “speech intended to discriminate“ isn’t really a thing at all. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 05:23:56 PM

Hyperbole is one way to send a discussion through the roof.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 05:24:14 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 31, 2022, 05:21:41 PM

We?

The second part is interesting. We do attach certain social guard rails. There are debates about that raging all over, where those should be. Some of those are probably good, others it’s more debatable.

think he's referring to twitter - which let's leaders from other countries- like Iran - tweet some pretty heinous, ridiculous, outrageously offensive shit - yet this same company bans it's US users willy nilly for basically nothing - they were banning people for saying cloth masks don't work- banning people for the dumbest sh*t - hell they banned the President of the United States lol - and no one in the US seems to have a problem with this or think it's batshit crazy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 05:25:23 PM

No one in the US seems to have a problem with this?  No one?  Are you outside the US?

Why don't you avoid the ridiculous hyperbole and stick to the discussion?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 05:26:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 05:25:23 PM

No one in the US seems to have a problem with this?  No one?  Are you outside the US?

Why don't you avoid the ridiculous hyperbole and stick to the discussion?

if majority of the people in the US actually had a problem with this, twitter would collapse overnight. it would lose all credibility and no one would use it. obviously that isn't the case - and millions of Americans literally do not care at all and will continue to use that garbage app/website.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 05:33:36 PM

this scares me...76% of Democrats polled are in favor of censorship by tech monopolies, meanwhile 65% are in favor of censorship by some sort of government action. f**king scares the shit out of me.

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1488252747489202181?s=20&t=sqUmHgUs98bPrByPBXq8YQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 31, 2022, 05:36:58 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 05:26:57 PM

if majority of the people in the US actually had a problem with this, twitter would collapse overnight. it would lose all credibility and no one would use it. obviously that isn't the case - and millions of Americans literally do not care at all and will continue to use that garbage app/website.

Well now you've moved the goalposts significantly from "nobody" to "a majority."

Besides that, Twitter only has something like 77 million users in the USA, while Facebook is almost 200 million.

I'm only speaking anecdotally from my own experience here, but in my circles of acquaintance the types of people that use Twitter also tend to be the types of people that are more trusting of government and want the Federal government specifically to exert more, not less, control over their lives.

The cross-section of Facebook users is a lot larger and therefore more diverse.  It includes my parents and their peers, all of whom are much more conservative than the Twitter masses tend to be.

The point being, Twitter really is pretty much a leftist echo-chamber and I believe you're assigning a lot more weight and value to it, than it probably deserves in the grand scheme of social influences out there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 05:39:03 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 31, 2022, 05:36:58 PM

Well now you've moved the goalposts significantly from "nobody" to "a majority."

Besides that, Twitter only has something like 77 million users in the USA, while Facebook is almost 200 million.

I'm only speaking anecdotally from my own experience here, but in my circles of acquaintance the types of people that use Twitter also tend to be the types of people that are more trusting of government and want the Federal government specifically to exert more, not less, control over their lives.

The cross-section of Facebook users is a lot larger and therefore more diverse.  It includes my parents and their peers. all of whom are much more conservative than the Twitter masses tend to be.

The point being, Twitter really is pretty much a leftist echo-chamber and I believe you're assigning a lot more weight and value to it, than it probably deserves in the grand scheme of social influences out there.

you're probably right. I am just vehemently against censorship. 

"To oppose censorship is not to support falsehood. It's to have humility that the world is too complicated to trust anyone with a monopoly on the truth."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 31, 2022, 05:41:24 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 05:33:36 PM

this scares me...76% of Democrats polled are in favor of censorship by tech monopolies, meanwhile 65% are in favor of censorship by some sort of government action. f**king scares the shit out of me.

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1488252747489202181?s=20&t=sqUmHgUs98bPrByPBXq8YQ

This on the other hand, is a lot scarier to me, than whatever the influence of Twitter might be.  I'm right there with you 100% on calling this out as some major nightmare fuel.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 31, 2022, 05:59:21 PM

The side promoting the damaging misinformation is suddenly more against censorship.  You don't say! 
The side who ignores experts and has alternative facts doesn't want its lies and flagrant verbal diarrhea to be compelled to shut up.  Yawn.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 06:03:58 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 31, 2022, 05:59:21 PM

The side promoting the damaging misinformation is suddenly more against censorship.  You don't say! 
The side who ignores experts and has alternative facts doesn't want its lies and flagrant verbal diarrhea to be compelled to shut up.  Yawn.

this sounds like something a partisan hack or complete moron would say....just saying.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 31, 2022, 06:10:43 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 06:03:58 PM

this sounds like something a partisan hack or complete moron would say....just saying.

He still lives in opposite Day. Whatever is the truth he says it the opposite.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 31, 2022, 06:11:03 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 31, 2022, 05:41:24 PM

This on the other hand, is a lot scarier to me, than whatever the influence of Twitter might be.  I'm right there with you 100% on calling this out as some major nightmare fuel.

Amen.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 31, 2022, 06:21:36 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 31, 2022, 05:59:21 PM

The side promoting the damaging misinformation is suddenly more against censorship.  You don't say! 
The side who ignores experts and has alternative facts doesn't want its lies and flagrant verbal diarrhea to be compelled to shut up.  Yawn.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gavin-newsom-claim-wearing-mask-rams-game-fan-cam

Explain it to us fro. He’s doing two different things? Which is the science and which is the lie?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2022, 06:24:24 PM

TBF, I read CD as saying the government potentially could, and maybe should, bar misinformation. He cited that freedom of speech is not without limit, suggesting to a casual reader that he wasn't convinced it would be improper for government to do so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 31, 2022, 06:24:38 PM

Yeah.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 06:26:47 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2022, 06:24:24 PM

TBF, I read CD as saying the government potentially could, and maybe should, bar misinformation. He cited that freedom of speech is not without limit, suggesting to a casual reader that he wasn't convinced it would be improper for government to do so.

I simply raised the issue, in a general sense, with no slant either way.  Then one poster read into what I posted what never was there, which isn't that unusual around here.

Another poster decided I hated Muslims because I noted the Battle of Tours was important in world history.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 06:32:15 PM

Neil Young should take notes from Roger Waters. Now that's what a freaking rockstar is suppose to be Neil Young, anti-establishment, edgy, against censorship. 

Waters has openly blasted twitter for their censorship, denied Facebook's requests for using his music and publicly said Mark Zuckerberg can f**k off - called him “one of the most powerful idiots in the world” and said many other awesome nasty true things about Zuck/FB. Oh and he's also been one of the largest voices out there in standing up for Julian Assange and calling out the US & UK gov't for their outright assault of the 1st amendment in their continued attempted prosecution of Julian Assange. 

Oh and his music is actually f**king awesome, unlike Neil Young's shitty ass music.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 06:32:47 PM

Interpretation: Freedom of Speech and the Press | The National Constitution Center (https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/interpretation/amendment-i/interps/266)

True threats: Threats to commit a crime (for example, “I’ll kill you if you don’t give me your money”) can be punished. Watts v. United States (https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/394/705/case.html) (1969).

c. “Fighting words”: Face-to-face personal insults that are likely to lead to an immediate fight are punishable. Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire (https://www.oyez.org/cases/1940-1955/315us568) (1942). But this does not include political statements that offend others and provoke them to violence.  For example, civil rights or anti-abortion protesters cannot be silenced merely because passersby respond violently to their speech. Cox v. Louisiana (http://www.oyez.org/cases/1960-1969/1964/1964_24) (1965).

Sort of interesting that "fight speech" itself can be illegal except when the speech is political.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 06:34:26 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 06:26:47 PM

I simply raised the issue, in a general sense, with no slant either way.  Then one poster read into what I posted what never was there, which isn't that unusual around here.

issue should never be raised. government has no businesses engaging in being the "ministry of truth". it's barred by law from doing so. and thank f***king god for that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 31, 2022, 06:38:34 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 06:32:15 PM

Neil Young should take notes from Roger Waters. Now that's what a freaking rockstar is suppose to be Neil Young, anti-establishment, edgy, against censorship.

Well to be fair, Roger Waters actually IS a rock star, while Neil Young is more of a... well... a folk screecher, i guess?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2022, 06:52:10 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 06:26:47 PM

I simply raised the issue, in a general sense, with no slant either way.  Then one poster read into what I posted what never was there, which isn't that unusual around here.

Another poster decided I hated Muslims because I noted the Battle of Tours was important in world history.

Yes, but when pressed on the issue you kept highlighting that freedom of speech was not without limit... Suggesting that you were pushing the point. 

So when someone said "apparently someone thinks it's okay for the government to decide what is misinformation", I was just highlighting that, when pressed multiple times, you certainly didn't object to that characterization. 

And again, which is to say that you might think it's legally permissible, which is a far cry from saying you think it's a good idea or something we should do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2022, 07:02:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 06:32:47 PM

c. “Fighting words”: Face-to-face personal insults that are likely to lead to an immediate fight are punishable. Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire (https://www.oyez.org/cases/1940-1955/315us568) (1942). But this does not include political statements that offend others and provoke them to violence.  For example, civil rights or anti-abortion protesters cannot be silenced merely because passersby respond violently to their speech. Cox v. Louisiana (http://www.oyez.org/cases/1960-1969/1964/1964_24) (1965).

Sort of interesting that "fight speech" itself can be illegal except when the speech is political.

Exactly. "Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries!" can be in the 'fighting words' category.

"I disapprove of promiscuous women and drunks" cannot. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 07:05:20 PM

I have tried hard to be very clear, my opinions on this topic generally are very soft and not formed.  I clearly see the danger of government censorship, but I don't see a need to declare that every time someone goes ballistic with hyperbole.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2022, 07:14:55 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 07:05:20 PM

I have tried hard to be very clear, my opinions on this topic generally are very soft and not formed.  I clearly see the danger of government censorship, but I don't see a need to declare that every time someone goes ballistic with hyperbole.

Trust me, CD... I understand. 

In this case, you were perhaps not as clear as you intended. 

If I was confused as to your meaning, imagine what the hyperbole crowd took from your words! :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 31, 2022, 07:31:46 PM

all of a sudden my browser says this site is not secure

I can get in but how do I make it secure again

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2022, 07:53:17 PM

I'm getting the same. I messaged Drew. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 31, 2022, 07:55:34 PM

ok

thanks

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 31, 2022, 10:18:21 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 05:24:14 PM

think he's referring to twitter - which let's leaders from other countries- like Iran - tweet some pretty heinous, ridiculous, outrageously offensive shit - yet this same company bans it's US users willy nilly for basically nothing - they were banning people for saying cloth masks don't work- banning people for the dumbest sh*t - hell they banned the President of the United States lol - and no one in the US seems to have a problem with this or think it's batshit crazy.

Ahhh yes. 

That's the issue of doing moderation as PR, and the reality of the scale. But that's their first amendment rights at work, I suppose (even if they're sort of against the spirit of the first amendment in some ways). 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 31, 2022, 10:20:06 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 05:33:36 PM

this scares me...76% of Democrats polled are in favor of censorship by tech monopolies, meanwhile 65% are in favor of censorship by some sort of government action. f**king scares the shit out of me.

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1488252747489202181?s=20&t=sqUmHgUs98bPrByPBXq8YQ

While regrettable, this is a bit of question bias in polling. It's a broad base ("take steps") and hits on a polarizing issue. If you flip to another issue, you'd likely be able to get right wing folks near about if not more censorious. 

As a people, we're somewhat bipartisan in that way. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 31, 2022, 10:24:44 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 31, 2022, 05:36:58 PM

The point being, Twitter really is pretty much a leftist echo-chamber and I believe you're assigning a lot more weight and value to it, than it probably deserves in the grand scheme of social influences out there.

I think this would be a bit inaccurate. Twitter is whatever echo chamber you build for yourself. Even if it was predominantly lefty (which I'd bet was a mild overstatement), a person cannot consume the tweets of even a million people, let alone more than that. 

So it can be a righty echo chamber, communist echo chamber, Nazi echo chamber, and perhaps most seriously in need of government intervention, a Texas Longhorns echo chamber. It is what you build of it (and in truth is probably most prominently trash or nonsense stolen from someone else)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 10:37:40 PM

the words left and right in terms of political discourse have almost lost all their meaning. the "left" or "liberals" have shifted drastically. Todays "liberal" or "left" is basically a Republican from 30-40 years ago. The "liberals" are for war, for tax cuts, for censorship, for assaults on journalism & whistleblowers, for big business. Shit is crazy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 31, 2022, 10:42:44 PM

This Just In......


Biden Warns Russia That If They Invade Ukraine, 

America Will Evacuate Haphazardly And Leave $86 Billion In Weapons Behind

(https://t.co/BMmTPzG4pV)

 (https://t.co/BMmTPzG4pV)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 01, 2022, 02:18:39 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 31, 2022, 10:24:44 PM

I think this would be a bit inaccurate. Twitter is whatever echo chamber you build for yourself. Even if it was predominantly lefty (which I'd bet was a mild overstatement), a person cannot consume the tweets of even a million people, let alone more than that.

So it can be a righty echo chamber, communist echo chamber, Nazi echo chamber, and perhaps most seriously in need of government intervention, a Texas Longhorns echo chamber. It is what you build of it (and in truth is probably most prominently trash or nonsense stolen from someone else)

My assertion is that righties are less likely to be on Twitter at all.  Therefore it invariably becomes a lefty echo chamber.  Age is a fairly large part of this.  I admitted this is anecdotal but it absolutely holds true among the people I know. Older people don't do twiitter at all, and they're the more conservative bunch.  I'm confident and comfortable that a scientific study would prove that out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 06:14:56 AM

The only time I see Twitter is when someone cites a tweet as an example of how dumb Person X is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 07:07:46 AM

Whatever became of "Net Neutrality"?  A few years back, some claimed this was the end of the world and would alter the internet massively.  I didn't notice.

Then there was the Fairness Doctrine which also went away.  It basically required speech be hosted on news casts.  What I saw was a news opinion show would have one person articulate what they thought and then some idiot try to explain the other side, it could be laughable, but they could claim they presented both sides, one well done, and one done very poorly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 07:23:26 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2022, 07:02:08 PM

"I disapprove of promiscuous women and drunks" 

And I thought we were friends

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 01, 2022, 08:22:26 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 31, 2022, 10:24:44 PM

I think this would be a bit inaccurate. Twitter is whatever echo chamber you build for yourself. Even if it was predominantly lefty (which I'd bet was a mild overstatement), a person cannot consume the tweets of even a million people, let alone more than that.

So it can be a righty echo chamber, communist echo chamber, Nazi echo chamber, and perhaps most seriously in need of government intervention, a Texas Longhorns echo chamber. It is what you build of it (and in truth is probably most prominently trash or nonsense stolen from someone else)

How much you wanna bet?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 01, 2022, 08:24:04 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 01, 2022, 02:18:39 AM

My assertion is that righties are less likely to be on Twitter at all.  Therefore it invariably becomes a lefty echo chamber.  Age is a fairly large part of this.  I admitted this is anecdotal but it absolutely holds true among the people I know. Older people don't do twiitter at all, and they're the more conservative bunch.  I'm confident and comfortable that a scientific study would prove that out.

Indoctrination wasn't a thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 01, 2022, 08:34:25 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 01, 2022, 02:18:39 AM

My assertion is that righties are less likely to be on Twitter at all.  Therefore it invariably becomes a lefty echo chamber.  Age is a fairly large part of this.  I admitted this is anecdotal but it absolutely holds true among the people I know. Older people don't do twiitter at all, and they're the more conservative bunch.  I'm confident and comfortable that a scientific study would prove that out.

This doesn't follow, though, for two reasons.

1. It ignores both apolitical and mostly apolitical posters, of which there are many
2. It implies that there's some central narrative and feel to a space where millions are firing off nonsense into the void. 

I suppose we might be speaking about "echo chambers" differently. Like, if it can be a left echo chamber, but I can also easily build a right-wing echo chamber within it, does that defeat it being an overall echo chamber? 

(This leads to another logical question, which I think we'd find some agreement on. You point out, the folks of intermediate age are more on twitter, older folks on facebook. Would that means Facebook is a conservative echo chamber? Of course not)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 08:37:49 AM

How many here follow anyone on Twitter?  I don't have any opinion about whether it leans L or R overall, and I'd guess much of it is apolitical.

What nonfollowers "see" is what someone else posts from there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 01, 2022, 08:40:26 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 01, 2022, 08:22:26 AM

How much you wanna bet?

Not much, especially because "predominantly" isn't a percentage and overstated is built on vague estimations of what someone else means. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 08:45:57 AM

The idolization of free speech in the United States (theconversation.com) (https://theconversation.com/the-idolization-of-free-speech-in-the-united-states-155778)

I've been reading a number of discussion pieces on free speech, some are interesting, to me.  

From a strict literal perspective, free-speech protection thus initially concerned only laws passed by Congress. Over time, however, the Supreme Court extended this protection to other forms of governmental power, from the federal to local and across all three branches: legislative, executive and judicial. It should be noted in passing that the First amendment doesn’t address or prevent censorship imposed by private individuals and private businesses who can apply their freedom of commerce as they see fit (https://theconversation.com/first-amendment-lawsuit-says-president-trump-cant-block-twitter-followers-he-doesnt-like-79074).
Contrary to what is often assumed, the current interpretation of the First Amendment is relatively recent. For a long time, there were many restrictions to free speech. This was in part due to different societal norms, particularly in terms of sexual morality (see the Comstock Acts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comstock_laws) for instance). But there were also greater restrictions of political speech in what was considered interests of the State, like the Espionage Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917) of 1917. Thus, during the two world wars and at the beginning of the Cold War, the Supreme Court upheld judgments against dissidents who opposed conscription or advocated revolutionary socialism or communism (as in Schenck v. United States (https://www.oyez.org/cases/1900-1940/249us47), 1919, or Dennis v. United States (https://www.oyez.org/cases/1940-1955/341us494), 1951).

Everything changed with the Warren Court (https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/70375636.pdf) (1953-1969) due to a growing support for speech related to civil rights and the war in Vietnam. Paradoxically, the liberal interpretation of the First Amendment (https://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1814&context=wlulr) also provided protection for hate speech spurred by the Ku Klux Klan, as stated in Brandenburg v. Ohio (https://mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/189/brandenburg-v-ohio), a 1969 decision that remains the standard for allowing extreme speech. Since then, freedom of speech in all its forms has generally been protected, including hate speech, unless there are specific exceptions.

The limits of free speech today
One of the lessons of the history of free speech in the United States is that standards are not set in stone. They do change as society changes and may yet change again.
Free speech is not absolute – US law does recognize a number of important restrictions to free speech. These include obscenity, fraud, child pornography, harassment, incitement to illegal conduct and imminent lawless action, true threats, and commercial speech such as advertising, copyright or patent rights.
Political speech, on the other hand, is one of the most protected categories. The Supreme Court even went so far as to conclude that campaign spending limits represent a violation of freedom of expression because it would restrict the financial means to express an opinion (as first ruled in Buckley v. Valeo (https://www.oyez.org/cases/1975/75-436), 1976, and then more recently and controversially in Citizens United (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._Federal_Election_Commission), 2010).
As for the role that Donald Trump played in the months leading up to January 6 and on the day itself, the question still to be answered is the relationship between his false claims and harsh rhetoric and the attack on the US Capitol that immediately followed. Was his speech protected by the First Amendment? According to Brandenburg v. Ohio, freedom of speech allows “advocacy of the use of force” or “lawless acts” unless it is “directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action” and is “likely to incite or produce such action”.

Because these words can be up to interpretation, context is everything. The assessment of the context in which the insurrection took place will allow for what is called the “Brandenburg test” (https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/brandenburg_test) to determine whether Trump’s words were aimed at encouraging his supporters to commit a crime and advocating an offense that is both imminent and likely to occur.

A marketplace of ideas?
The Brandenburg ruling is important. It is what made it legal for neo-Nazis to march with swastika crosses in Charlottesville in 2017 or for Rush Limbaugh to use misogynistic, homophobic, racist and conspiracy-laden language (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/17/business/media/rush-limbaugh-dead.html) during his long career. This decision is based on the principle that the competition of ideas in a free and transparent public discourse will allow people to freely decide what they want to believe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 01, 2022, 08:50:49 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 01, 2022, 08:40:26 AM

Not much, especially because "predominantly" isn't a percentage and overstated is built on vague estimations of what someone else means.

Prediction: The next person to be banned from Twitter for spreading misinformation will not be from the left.


(https://i.imgur.com/FqLG2PC.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 08:52:45 AM

The question I posed relates to when a technical issue poses a risk to society, take climate change as an example (regardless of whether you think it's a real threat or not).

I submit developing a sound technical opinion on climate change and what we should do about it is well beyond the capacity of even technically trained people (save those few who are immersed in it as a career).  What 'we' do of course is form an opinion first and then seek only items aligned with said opinion, disparaging anything else.  When I was working, I had Science and Nature come across my desk and I'd try and read articles on CC in them, it was tough going indeed, a lot of jargon, and these are intended to be broad audience journals (in the science community).  Do I have an opinion on how big a threat it is?  Not really, I know enough to know I don't know.  (I spent some time looking into what could be done about it, but that's separate.)

So, in a hypothetical consider some highly technical issue, "X", where the actions needed are indeed critical to the well being of Society, but there are folks disparaging and minimizing it to the point many believe them, and that prevents "society" from taking needed steps to combat "X".  I think in reality it means little would get done, sort of like what is in "Don't Look Up", a lot of pandering and pretending and silliness to gain political favor.

And of course the other side is the "cure" could be worse than the ailment, in theory, though if the ailment is a planetary ending disaster of that movie, well, we're screwed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 09:05:24 AM

The Physics of the N95 Face Mask | WIRED (https://www.wired.com/story/the-physics-of-the-n95-face-mask/?fbclid=IwAR34_ptRyPf-b89y-BuBWS8f1fLy3zffcF_i4NtB8wPcVZeXPPb-n8L--dU)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 01, 2022, 09:14:44 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 04:24:19 PM

The "cure" on misinformation could be worse than the disease.  I don't even know what a cure could comprise, but I do think some are able to purvey misinformation which is quite harmful to the public interest.

The best way to "cure misinformation" is to have an open and honest public debate on the topics in question. Allow people to see both sides of an issue and make their own decisions. More speech is better than censored speech. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 09:16:48 AM

Well, in theory, but my premise relates to a highly technical issue which is going to harm society seriously if not addressed.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 09:29:31 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 01, 2022, 08:50:49 AM

Prediction: The next person to be banned from Twitter for spreading misinformation will not be from the left.

nor will it be the corporate/establishment/mainstream media. they take down or censor independent news outlets constantly for "misinformation" - yet the establishment media spews misinformation constantly and nothing happens to them. They just continue on like it didn't happen. It is literally nuts. That's why when Trump was calling them the enemy of the people or fake news - it landed. Because unfortunately, they are fake news.

Take this insane video for example. This idiot straight out lies and the tv "journalists" aka tv actors never pushback or question him and they actually help him push the out and out lies. The major and astounding lies not based in any reality whatsoever. (a) this idiot says that 146,000 children have died from covid since the start of the pandemic in 2020. WTF. The actual number is around 700 to 800- vast majority of which were children that were obese, had diabetes, cancer, or other diseases. how in the actual f**k is he able to get away with saying these lies. this is preposterous. (b) covid is one of the top 10 causes of death for children. again...NOT TRUE. By any means. how in the mother F is he able to get away with spreading this misinformation? (c) vaccine gives stronger protection from covid than natural immunity. WTF? hundreds of studies have literally proven without a shadow of a doubt that is just not true. natural immunity provides stronger and longer lasting protection from infection. 

This video hasn't been censored for misinformation, hasn't been taken down. The video was ratioed to hell - meaning it had tens of thousands of dislikes and maybe only 500 likes - and videos from the "establishment" have been getting ratioed and disliked to death because people aren't stupid and know these establishment corporate outlets are completely full of shit - which is the reason why Google's bitch ass decided to remove the dislike button. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw-NsoY0LPE

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 09:32:47 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 09:16:48 AM

Well, in theory, but my premise relates to a highly technical issue which is going to harm society seriously if not addressed.

well, it's a dumb premise. the issue of free speech is pretty cut and dry. there are very few and very narrow instances where it can be restricted or punished. this ain't one of 'em.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 09:33:02 AM

Where should a person get ones "news"?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 09:33:37 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 09:32:47 AM

well, it's a dumb premise. the issue of free speech is pretty cut and dry. there are very few and very narrow instances where it can be restricted or punished. this ain't one of 'em.

Why is it a "dumb premise"?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 09:39:48 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 08:52:45 AM

So, in a hypothetical consider some highly technical issue, "X", where the actions needed are indeed critical to the well being of Society, but there are folks disparaging and minimizing it to the point many believe them, and that prevents "society" from taking needed steps to combat "X".  I think in reality it means little would get done, sort of like what is in "Don't Look Up", a lot of pandering and pretending and silliness to gain political favor.

great point....and take the star of Don't Look Up for example - Leonardo DiCaprio. He drones on about climate change, yet he jet sets all across the world on private jets and travels and parties all over the world on mega yachts full of super models. There was even an instance where he flew 8,000+ miles on a private jet to collect an environmental award. LOL. There was a study that showed that just 1% of people (private jet setters) account for over 50% of all global aircraft emissions.

He's full of shit and just pandering. IF he really cared about climate change he wouldn't be jet setting on private planes and partying on mega yachts with super models all over the god damn world.

Like when all the super rich jerkoffs fly to Davos every year to get together at the World Economic Forum to talk about climate change and saving the planet - and they all fly in on 1,600+ private jets. LOL.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 01, 2022, 09:40:09 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 09:33:02 AM

Where should a person get ones "news"?

That's a tough one. You really have to pick and choose what you believe, and also do a lot of your own research.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 09:44:00 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 09:33:02 AM

Where should a person get ones "news"?

Lots of really good independent journalists. Now more than ever, and thank god for the internet and the democratization of information.

Matt Taibbi, Matt Stoller, Glenn Greenwald, Michael Tracey are some very good independent journalists. Ryan Grimm another pretty good journalist even though he's not independent and with The Intercept and that place has jumped the shark- but - that's to be expected when you hire a bunch of former NYT assholes to run the paper. 

Patreon & YouTube actually have some great news shows - Breaking Points with Krystal & Saagar is great, Rising on TheHill's YouTube channel is pretty good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 09:46:02 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 09:33:37 AM

Why is it a "dumb premise"?

because the idea that the government should in anyway have a "ministry of truth" and get to censor views or speech counter to their official narrative is batshit crazy. 

you cannot give a government more power. they always abuse said power and once they have it they try to expand it and they never give up said power.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 09:48:32 AM

I think most folks get their "news" from sources that confirm what they want to believe.  Few are willing to really challenge their beliefs.

I find the various business news channels to be more even handed and they rarely cover what some personality said about whatever (outside the business world).  I lean to thinking investors want something close to reality because it's money to them.  Of course "more even handed" is a low bar.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 09:49:02 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 09:46:02 AM

because the idea that the government should in anyway have a "ministry of truth" and get to censor views or speech counter to their official narrative is batshit crazy.

you cannot give a government more power. they always abuse said power and once they have it they try to expand it and they never give up said power.

I think you utterly and totally missed the point I was attempting to make.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 10:00:21 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 09:48:32 AM

I think most folks get their "news" from sources that confirm what they want to believe.  Few are willing to really challenge their beliefs.

I find the various business news channels to be more even handed and they rarely cover what some personality said about whatever (outside the business world).  I lean to thinking investors want something close to reality because it's money to them.  Of course "more even handed" is a low bar.

this is very true. lean democrat...they watch MSNBC or CNN. lean republican....they watch Fox News. 

CNN used to try to attempt to be the middle ground. since Trump came along and broke everyones brains they hopped on the MSNBC bandwagon and it was great for ratings. When Trump was around. Now that he's gone and they've lost a ton of credibility - their ratings are in the toilet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 10:01:56 AM

The recent book I read "Hail Mary" offered a nice example of my premise.  Space microbes were eating our Sun, at a rate that was increasing and it meant the end of humanity in about 40 years.  It's a weird concept, but it's fiction.  In the book, somehow unrevealed, complete power over every country was given to a single woman who ran everything to try and come up with a fix.  There were folks who disbelieved this of course, she handled them rather abruptly.

I don't think this could happen, the world unity under one person part, no matter the threat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 10:02:15 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 09:49:02 AM

I think you utterly and totally missed the point I was attempting to make.

I probably did, you're a lot smarter than me lol.

Freedom of press/freedom of speech/censorship is a hot button issue for me. I am so against censorship and gov't trying to restrict freedom of press & freedom of speech - I'm a zealot when it comes to that shit. I think it is one of the things that makes America so unique and so great. No other countries have these kind of speech and freedom of press protections- not even the European ones.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 10:03:04 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 10:01:56 AM

The recent book I read "Hail Mary" offered a nice example of my premise.  Space microbes were eating our Sun, at a rate that was increasing and it meant the end of humanity in about 40 years.  It's a weird concept, but it's fiction.  In the book, somehow unrevealed, complete power over every country was given to a single woman who ran everything to try and come up with a fix.  There were folks who disbelieved this of course, she handled them rather abruptly.

I don't think this could happen, the world unity under one person part, no matter the threat.

I don't either, but Xi Jinping would certainly love to try.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 10:06:22 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 10:00:21 AM

this is very true. lean democrat...they watch MSNBC or CNN. lean republican....they watch Fox News.

CNN used to try to attempt to be the middle ground. since Trump came along and broke everyones brains they hopped on the MSNBC bandwagon and it was great for ratings. When Trump was around. Now that he's gone and they've lost a ton of credibility - their ratings are in the toilet.

Network news has far more viewers than the cable news channels.


Almost three out of four U.S. adults (71%) watch local television news and 65% view network newscasts over the course of a month, according to Nielsen data from February 2013. While 38% of adults watch some cable news during the month, cable viewers—particularly the most engaged viewers—spend far more time with that platform than broadcast viewers do with local or network news.^{1 (https://www.pewresearch.org/journalism/2013/10/11/how-americans-get-tv-news-at-home/#fn-38017-1)}

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 10:10:53 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 10:06:22 AM

Network news has far more viewers than the cable news channels.


Almost three out of four U.S. adults (71%) watch local television news and 65% view network newscasts over the course of a month, according to Nielsen data from February 2013. While 38% of adults watch some cable news during the month, cable viewers—particularly the most engaged viewers—spend far more time with that platform than broadcast viewers do with local or network news.^{1 (https://www.pewresearch.org/journalism/2013/10/11/how-americans-get-tv-news-at-home/#fn-38017-1)}

that's the key line there "spend far more time". local news is worthless- basically just milquetoast run of the mill insignificant bullshit. it's like 30 minutes of feel good stories, car chase stories, weather, and other bullshit. And most people watch it because it comes on right after whatever they were watching beforehand. I don't think they actually turn the tv on and tune in just for the local news.

Network newscasts (ABC, NBC, CBS) - probably the same sort of thing - they're watching a football game or 60 mins and it just comes on after. It's mostly straight news - pretty mundane - no opinions, screaming, or shouting. And it's short.

The Cable news crap - people actually tune in for that - and it's mostly opinion and lies - and the people who watch it - well they watch A LOT of it - and they base their entire world views off the lies and propaganda they're willingly being fed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 01, 2022, 10:20:48 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 01, 2022, 08:50:49 AM

Prediction: The next person to be banned from Twitter for spreading misinformation will not be from the left.


(https://i.imgur.com/FqLG2PC.png)

Probably The case, at least in terms of bannings that get on the radar of people mostly involved with Twitter

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 10:21:01 AM

My wife often watches the local news.  She is particularly interested in the weather forecast (which I get off the net quickly).  I think she also still is trying to get a feel for the city.  I once was the lead story on the 11 PM Dayton news which goes to how little else they had to report that night.

Local news is city hall stuff, crime stuff, some story about someone doing well, the weather, sports, maybe a small bit about national news.  It's the same in every city I've found.  But people watch broadcast news more than cable, numberswise.  News junkies watch more cable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 10:25:56 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 07:07:46 AM

Whatever became of "Net Neutrality"?  A few years back, some claimed this was the end of the world and would alter the internet massively.  I didn't notice.

Forget his name but the dickhole Trump appointed to be the head of the FCC reclassified internet services from Title II to Title I which undid regulations put in place by the Obama administration and effectively ended net neutrality. 

Some states like California have passed their own net neutrality laws. California net neutrality law was challenged in court by special interests funded by the giant telecoms and California won. 7 other states have since passed similar laws. 

And yeah, not having net neutrality could alter the internet massively, because unfortunately we have a weak ass DoJ and FTC that approve every single merger and never enforce anti-trust law - which has allowed for the formation of giant monopolies like ATT & Comcast - which aren't just telecoms anymore - they've bought up content/media assets. Theoretically without net neutrality they can say throttle streaming services like Netflix - but if you are streaming Peacock on Comcast internet or HBO Max on ATT internet - no throttling there - and they even theoretically could charge more money for "fast passes" - hey we won't throttle you on Netflix if you pay extra $10 a month. Just because they haven't done this yet doesn't mean they won't. And not sure it's a great idea for ISP's/telecoms to also own the content they are streaming. Seems like a potential conflict of interest to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 10:31:30 AM

Dissecting homicide statistics in St. Louis City and looking at 2022 projections - NextSTL (https://nextstl.com/2022/02/dissecting-homicide-statistics-in-st-louis-city-and-looking-at-2022-projections/)

(https://i.imgur.com/yTcxmnb.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 10:42:00 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 01:42:00 PM

no lie...if I was a really attractive woman I would just sit at home and do this. better looking the broad, more money she makes. some of these girls that are absolute smoke shows are making $30k a month or more just sitting their asses at home taking their clothes off and playing with themselves.

Just curious how do you know this?😎

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 01, 2022, 10:42:55 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 01, 2022, 09:14:44 AM

The best way to "cure misinformation" is to have an open and honest public debate on the topics in question. Allow people to see both sides of an issue and make their own decisions. More speech is better than censored speech.

Yes, I agree that more speech is better than censorship.

However, if you're trying to get people to avoid misinformation, well, it didn't work. Because of confirmation bias. If every opinion is out there, people will surround themselves with the opinion they want to believe, whether it's misinformation or not. And in a free and open debate, that places misinformation on the same level of legitimacy as everything else.

I'm not advocating the government do anything about it. But society is completely fractured because of it, and I don't think there is a "cure".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 10:49:14 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 01, 2022, 10:42:55 AM

Yes, I agree that more speech is better than censorship.

However, if you're trying to get people to avoid misinformation, well, it didn't work. Because of confirmation bias. If every opinion is out there, people will surround themselves with the opinion they want to believe, whether it's misinformation or not. And in a free and open debate, that places misinformation on the same level of legitimacy as everything else.

I'm not advocating the government do anything about it. But society is completely fractured because of it, and I don't think there is a "cure".

agree 100%. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 01, 2022, 10:53:47 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 10:31:30 AM

Dissecting homicide statistics in St. Louis City and looking at 2022 projections - NextSTL (https://nextstl.com/2022/02/dissecting-homicide-statistics-in-st-louis-city-and-looking-at-2022-projections/)

(https://i.imgur.com/yTcxmnb.png)

Interesting article and thank you for posting it.

I always wonder why they don’t also discuss the perpetrators and their race?

It kind of goes with the topic we are discussing about what is this information and what is real. We have people on here trying to say that crime is down when all the data points to crime being up, substantially, and nearly every major city in our country.

You can play the White House game of combining the statistics of nonviolent crimes to blend in and bring the total down but it’s pretty easy to see right through that. Or you could just say “crime is not a problem you are all afraid of the bogeyman” which some people here do but it doesn’t change the fact that crime of a violent nature is up dramatically in this country.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 01, 2022, 10:58:03 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 10:49:14 AM

agree 100%.

Yes it’s tough. Let’s use masks as an example.

if you’re like me and don’t have a bias and truly want to understand if a mask is going to help me and those around me or not-  what is the answer?

there is plenty of data, and unlimited opinions, on both sides of that issue still today. Honestly I don’t know who to believe.

The element that gives me pause is that a lot of the mouthpieces proclaiming masks masks masks are almost always caught off camera without masks masks masks. This eliminates any credibility they had with me because they clearly don’t believe in what they are preaching. 

and is the reverse true? Have I ever seen a talking head or political figure saying that masks are not effective, caught in private wearing a mask? Of course not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 01, 2022, 11:05:30 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 01, 2022, 10:58:03 AM

Yes it’s tough. Let’s use masks as an example.

if you’re like me and don’t have a bias and truly want to understand if a mask is going to help me and those around me or not-  what is the answer?

there is plenty of data, and unlimited opinions, on both sides of that issue still today. Honestly I don’t know who to believe.

The element that gives me pause is that a lot of the mouthpieces proclaiming masks masks masks are almost always caught off camera without masks masks masks. This eliminates any credibility they had with me because they clearly don’t believe in what they are preaching. 

and is the reverse true? Have I ever seen a talking head or political figure saying that masks are not effective, caught in private wearing a mask? Of course not.

One is the Governor of California. The other one has HIV. 


(https://i.imgur.com/Tz4SkUB.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 01, 2022, 11:08:45 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 01, 2022, 10:42:55 AM

Yes, I agree that more speech is better than censorship.

However, if you're trying to get people to avoid misinformation, well, it didn't work. Because of confirmation bias. If every opinion is out there, people will surround themselves with the opinion they want to believe, whether it's misinformation or not. And in a free and open debate, that places misinformation on the same level of legitimacy as everything else.

I'm not advocating the government do anything about it. But society is completely fractured because of it, and I don't think there is a "cure".

Pretty much this.

There is so, so, SO much information. One thing that is also helping is there’s a strong allure to being told, “everyone else is lying to you, and the folks that listen to them are suckers. But I, I have the truth, and you are smart and special for believing me when I tell you the world is super interesting and dramatic.”

It’s become a good tactic for audience and bubble building on all sides.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 11:11:18 AM

I think any respiratory disease that is spread by coughing, sneezing, expelling germs while talking, and any mask will somewhat dampen that spread.  The issue, to me, is that a mask is only slightly effective and was positioned as being more than that, along with the six feet thing, which also makes general sense.  We put our hand over our mouth when we cough, usually, for the same reason.

In some unmasked crowd with someone contagious, maybe we'd see 20 infections, while if the contagious person was masked, it might be 15, or even 10, but not zero.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 11:44:34 AM

https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1488353134653190145?s=20&t=yC3KV6b2Svjp7AYNO82r0w

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 11:52:22 AM

https://twitter.com/davidsirota/status/1488349287243141123?s=20&t=Z_4N6CLgmjoneYGpdMgdKw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 11:53:11 AM

https://twitter.com/matthewstoller/status/1488332022858891270?s=20&t=Z_4N6CLgmjoneYGpdMgdKw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 11:56:57 AM

misinformation.....ruh roh. fb/twitter were banning people who posted stuff counter to this official narrative for "misinformation". turns out....the official narrative you see that disgusting man who wears underwear with dickholes in them- Rachel Maddow was spewing misinformation - to millions of people. #CancelHer or better yet #CancelIt.

https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1488196414979067904?s=20&t=yC3KV6b2Svjp7AYNO82r0w

https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1488200533475315713?s=20&t=yC3KV6b2Svjp7AYNO82r0w

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 01, 2022, 12:15:14 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 11:56:57 AM

misinformation.....ruh roh. fb/twitter were banning people who posted stuff counter to this official narrative for "misinformation". turns out....the official narrative you see that disgusting man who wears underwear with dickholes in them- Rachel Maddow was spewing misinformation - to millions of people. #CancelHer or better yet #CancelIt.

https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1488196414979067904?s=20&t=yC3KV6b2Svjp7AYNO82r0w

https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1488200533475315713?s=20&t=yC3KV6b2Svjp7AYNO82r0w

Exactly!  Talk about misinformation!  Here is the crazy thing: that big lie or false narrative is STILL being pushed.  By MSM, and key, high level elected officials.  And then they have the audacity to claim any person who questions it as a spreader of misinformation.   

Science HA!  Don’t they know the majority of people with brain see right through that bullshit?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 01, 2022, 12:16:32 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 01, 2022, 10:58:03 AM

Yes it’s tough. Let’s use masks as an example.

if you’re like me and don’t have a bias and truly want to understand if a mask is going to help me and those around me or not-  what is the answer?

there is plenty of data, and unlimited opinions, on both sides of that issue still today. Honestly I don’t know who to believe.

The element that gives me pause is that a lot of the mouthpieces proclaiming masks masks masks are almost always caught off camera without masks masks masks. This eliminates any credibility they had with me because they clearly don’t believe in what they are preaching. 

and is the reverse true? Have I ever seen a talking head or political figure saying that masks are not effective, caught in private wearing a mask? Of course not.

masks are a great example of the public not understanding or often being willfully ignorant of the topic.

first, people generally don't understand that anecdotal evidence is fairly meaningless. your cousin that wore a mask all the time and still got it doesn't disprove that masks are effective at stopping the spread significantly. especially when empirical evidence has provided data repeatedly that shows it does.

it doesn't help that the "narrative" on masks changed, and fairly rapidly, from the scientific standpoint. which led a lot of people to distrust those espousing mask wearing as a preventative (eventually). and it's completely understandable at a glimpse. the problem is that the "narrative" changed because understanding of the science of effects from masks changed. it was first that n95 masks were effective and people panicked and bought them all out. they said stop doing that, they aren't effective when not worn correctly. 1 - people didn't hear that last part, 2 - vast majority of people have no idea what correctly wearing an n95 mask entails. then, research was done on general use masks, which they didn't think would stop the spread, but turns out it does... if everyone will wear them (or a significant enough %). and this is where anecdotal evidence became killer, because wearing a mask didn't prevent you (the wearer) from getting sick, it prevent you from spreading it to others. and if mask wearing cousin eddy got it, well it obviously doesn't work. it's not with 100% effectiveness, but significant enough to matter. but by this point, too much damage has been done. the story changed, however justified it was, and a large portion of influential people (politicians and talking heads) rebutted against it enough that it became a team specific talking point.

being able to separate an individual from their data/info is paramount. an individual is fallible, hypocritical, and irrational. they may believe fully in something, and yet at times go against that belief for some bs rationalization. how many family counselors have ruined their marriages, or lawyers broken laws, engineers approved insufficient products, accountants fudged numbers or forgot to file taxes, dr's that smoke, etc. doesn't mean that the info or whatever is wrong. doesn't mean they don't believe what they work for or the info the champion. but they rationalize decisions and make mistakes. a basketball team/coach that believes a 3 pointer and a layup are the only shots worth taking, because the data suggest they're the most valuable bang for buck based on % made, doesn't lose credibility when they take a mid-range jumper. the data certainly doesn't change. we should look at the info as separate from the individual.

and concerning the last part, maybe not with masks, but certainly with vaccines. both talking heads and politicians.

fwiw ,with regards to masks, it's looking like the "narrative" will likely change again soon. this time because the new variant (omicron b, i've seen it called) is so highly contagious it won't matter even in the prior context. at least early data is suggesting so. supposedly has a chance to be most infectious disease we know about. thankfully it's also looking to be relatively mild like omicron a.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 01, 2022, 12:21:21 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 01, 2022, 12:16:32 PM

masks are a great example of the public not understanding or often being willfully ignorant of the topic.

first, people generally don't understand that anecdotal evidence is fairly meaningless. your cousin that wore a mask all the time and still got it doesn't disprove that masks are effective at stopping the spread significantly. especially when empirical evidence has provided data repeatedly that shows it does.

it doesn't help that the "narrative" on masks changed, and fairly rapidly, from the scientific standpoint. which led a lot of people to distrust those espousing mask wearing as a preventative (eventually). and it's completely understandable at a glimpse. the problem is that the "narrative" changed because understanding of the science of effects from masks changed. it was first that n95 masks were effective and people panicked and bought them all out. they said stop doing that, they aren't effective when not worn correctly. 1 - people didn't hear that last part, 2 - vast majority of people have no idea what correctly wearing an n95 mask entails. then, research was done on general use masks, which they didn't think would stop the spread, but turns out it does... if everyone will wear them (or a significant enough %). and this is where anecdotal evidence became killer, because wearing a mask didn't prevent you (the wearer) from getting sick, it prevent you from spreading it to others. and if mask wearing cousin eddy got it, well it obviously doesn't work. it's not with 100% effectiveness, but significant enough to matter. but by this point, too much damage has been done. the story changed, however justified it was, and a large portion of influential people (politicians and talking heads) rebutted against it enough that it became a team specific talking point.

being able to separate an individual from their data/info is paramount. an individual is fallible, hypocritical, and irrational. they may believe fully in something, and yet at times go against that belief for some bs rationalization. how many family counselors have ruined their marriages, or lawyers broken laws, engineers approved insufficient products, accountants fudged numbers or forgot to file taxes, dr's that smoke, etc. doesn't mean that the info or whatever is wrong. doesn't mean they don't believe what they work for or the info the champion. but they rationalize decisions and make mistakes. a basketball team/coach that believes a 3 pointer and a layup are the only shots worth taking, because the data suggest they're the most valuable bang for buck based on % made, doesn't lose credibility when they take a mid-range jumper. the data certainly doesn't change. we should look at the info as separate from the individual.

and concerning the last part, maybe not with masks, but certainly with vaccines. both talking heads and politicians.

fwiw ,with regards to masks, it's looking like the "narrative" will likely change again soon. this time because the new variant (omicron b, i've seen it called) is so highly contagious it won't matter even in the prior context. at least early data is suggesting so. supposedly has a chance to be most infectious disease we know about. thankfully it's also looking to be relatively mild like omicron a.

Well articulated. 

but- What if you’re somebody like me who doesn’t pay any attention to anecdotal. Just factual data that is presented. I have seen plenty on both sides of this debate, including some pretty meaningful information of the harm that masks can do physically, socially, and psychologically.

now don’t get me wrong. I still bust out into laughter when I see somebody riding their bike down the street by themselves and they’re wearing a mask, or somebody walking alone on the beach hundreds of yards from any human and they are wearing a mask.  But I don’t make decisions or come to conclusions other than “has to be a liberal“. 😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 12:23:14 PM

One thing this has done is further damage the credibility of 'experts' in government or business.

I don't mean the Talking Heads on TV, but 'experts' in a broad sense.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 12:34:33 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 12:23:14 PM

One thing this has done is further damage the credibility of 'experts' in government or business.

I don't mean the Talking Heads on TV, but 'experts' in a broad sense. 

great point. expert #1 who has seen his credibility be shot and has been caught lying too many times to count - has been caught red-handed actively trying to plot and scheme to suppress and curtail any discussion of a lab-leak and try to do damage control and push a false public narrative that it HAD to come from nature - hasn't been forthright at all about gain of function research and NIH's funding of said research- and is THE person responsible for turning gain of function research funding back online after the Obama administration shut it down - none other than..... Dr. Anthony Fauci!

And when all this shit comes to light, the gov't response and this clowns response is to double down - not to fire him or for him to resign. People aren't dumb, and yet gov't and media likes to treat people as if they are. People see through the bullshit.

People lose complete faith in institutions when no one in said institutions gets punished or has to face any consequences. There are rules and consequences for regular folk while the rules and consequence largely don't apply to the people in power.

You want to restore faith in institutions and experts? A start would've been forcing Fauci to resign a long ass time ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 01, 2022, 12:38:08 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 01, 2022, 12:21:21 PM

Well articulated. 

but- What if you’re somebody like me who doesn’t pay any attention to anecdotal. Just factual data that is presented. I have seen plenty on both sides of this debate, including some pretty meaningful information of the harm that masks can do physically, socially, and psychologically.

now don’t get me wrong. I still bust out into laughter when I see somebody riding their bike down the street by themselves and they’re wearing a mask, or somebody walking alone on the beach hundreds of yards from any human and they are wearing a mask.  But I don’t make decisions or come to conclusions other than “has to be a liberal“. 😂😂😂

i'd ask where are you seeing any reputable source suggesting masks are ineffective and/or harmful. because as far as i can tell, virtually all respected medical websites are suggesting to wear one.

as for the idiots wearing masks 24/7, agreed. they're just as dumb, but on the other side. they hear "masks work" and don't read further, where it says in certain situations, etc. i think my favorite i've seen was a dude with a gator on, mask on top, face shield on as well... in his own car, by himself. pretty sure he just came back from chernobyl or something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 01, 2022, 12:47:34 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 11:56:57 AM

misinformation.....ruh roh. fb/twitter were banning people who posted stuff counter to this official narrative for "misinformation". turns out....the official narrative you see that disgusting man who wears underwear with dickholes in them- Rachel Maddow was spewing misinformation - to millions of people. #CancelHer or better yet #CancelIt.

https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1488196414979067904?s=20&t=yC3KV6b2Svjp7AYNO82r0w

https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1488200533475315713?s=20&t=yC3KV6b2Svjp7AYNO82r0w

It should be mentioned that at the time (March 2021), the data was showing that the vaccine was ~95% effective at preventing symptomatic illness. This was before Delta (possible R0 of ~7) and Omicron (possible R0 of ~10). 

The vaccine knocked the crap out of previous variants. There wasn't significant transmission within vaccinated people until later. I think that was twofold... One, immunity from infection waned as the antibody levels produced in response to the vaccine faded from the immune system after the second shot. Second, Delta appeared and was transmissible enough that it could overcome those antibody levels easily. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 12:54:59 PM

If a person gets their "facts" from a TV show host or personality, there isn't much to be done.  There was a HOPE that the vaccine could eliminate COVID amidst many warnings about variants, but "they" pushed the vaccine hard without the caveats being expressed very often.  Now we know better.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 01:29:32 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 01, 2022, 12:47:34 PM

It should be mentioned that at the time (March 2021), the data was showing that the vaccine was ~95% effective at preventing symptomatic illness. This was before Delta (possible R0 of ~7) and Omicron (possible R0 of ~10).

The vaccine knocked the crap out of previous variants. There wasn't significant transmission within vaccinated people until later. I think that was twofold... One, immunity from infection waned as the antibody levels produced in response to the vaccine faded from the immune system after the second shot. Second, Delta appeared and was transmissible enough that it could overcome those antibody levels easily.

preventing symptomatic illness is changing the goalposts. Not what we are talking about here, and that's not what she stated. She stated the vaccines will STOP infection and stop the spread - that a vaccinated person CANNOT get infected and be a host and spread the virus - effectively eradicating the disease. Which was never even close to being true, even then.

and you bring up a great point. what is "misinformation" today can wind up being FACT tomorrow. Science is constantly evolving, things are constantly being discovered, new data is constantly emerging. We can't have so much hubris as to state things as fact - when the reality is - we just don't know. Have to be able to admit that we don't know what we don't know. Which to me- is another reason why censorship is god awful. Just look at examples in history - Galileo was sentenced to life in prison merely for challenging the FACT of that day and claiming that the Earth orbits the Sun. He was peddling "misinformation" and was censored and punished for it. Welp, turns out he was right. There are so many awful examples of this where governments censored, silenced, shut people up - burned books, people were sent to prison, or even killed throughout history. Censorship leads nowhere but to tyranny.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 01, 2022, 01:38:48 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 01:29:32 PM

preventing symptomatic illness is changing the goalposts. Not what we are talking about here, and that's now what she stated. She stated the vaccines will STOP infection and stop the spread - that a vaccinated person CANNOT get infected and be a host and spread the virus - effectively eradicating the disease. Which was never even close to being true, even then.

and you bring up a great point. what is "misinformation" today can wind up being FACT tomorrow. Science is constantly evolving, things are constantly being discovered, new data is constantly emerging. We can't have so much hubris as to state things as fact - when the reality is - we just don't know. Have to be able to admit that we don't know what we don't know. Which to me- is another reason why censorship is god awful. Just look at examples in history - Galileo was sentenced to life in prison merely for challenging the FACT of that day and claiming that the Earth orbits the Sun. He was peddling "misinformation" and was censored and punished for it. Welp, turns out he was right. There are so many awful examples of this where governments censored, silenced, shut people up - burned books, people were sent to prison, or even killed throughout history. Censorship leads nowhere but to tyranny.

This is what bothers me the most about how the White House is handling the virus.  Its like they have not heard of omicron when in fact over 95% of the new cases is omicron.  So when they keep having various mandates and stressing vaccinations they are way behind science and what the real strategy should be.  Media doesnt help any also

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 01, 2022, 01:59:23 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 01, 2022, 12:38:08 PM

i'd ask where are you seeing any reputable source suggesting masks are ineffective and/or harmful. because as far as i can tell, virtually all respected medical websites are suggesting to wear one.

as for the idiots wearing masks 24/7, agreed. they're just as dumb, but on the other side. they hear "masks work" and don't read further, where it says in certain situations, etc. i think my favorite i've seen was a dude with a gator on, mask on top, face shield on as well... in his own car, by himself. pretty sure he just came back from chernobyl or something.

😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 02:10:20 PM

Disney casts a latin woman as Snow White in a live action remake of snow white and the 7 dwarves. Not that I give a shit - latin women are hotter anyway-  whatever - but it's suppose to be fairly tale about a German princess - what really makes me crack up is Peter Dinklage - a very famous actor with dwarfism - who made tens of millions of dollars playing....a dwarf - on HBO's Game of Thrones - goes on a podcast and criticizes Disney for casting 7 actors with dwarfism to play the 7 dwarves - and now suddenly Disney is saying they are rethinking the roles and 'taking a different approach' with Snow White's 7 dwarves and will been consulting with members of the dwarfism community. Huh? We really do live in a clown world.

Who made Peter Dinklage king of the dwarves? Apparently he feels like he's the only actor with dwarfism that should work in Hollywood lol. Would be crazy if his little comments on some podcast actually took 7 high-paying jobs away from 7 actors with dwarfism. Not exactly like these kinda roles in a major big budget Hollywood feature that Disney is going to promote the living shit out of come along that often for them. Guarantee every single one of them would've been getting a payday of at least $500k for being in the movie. Who knows, even more. This will be a $150+ million budget film is my guess.

Dinklage just trying to protect his clear cut spot as the go to dwarf in Hollywood. He don't want no one even encroaching on his turf.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 01, 2022, 02:13:05 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 02:10:20 PM

Disney casts a latin woman as Snow White in a live action remake of snow white and the 7 dwarves. Not that I give a shit - latin women are hotter anyway-  whatever - but it's suppose to be fairly tale about a German princess - what really makes me crack up is Peter Dinklage - a very famous actor with dwarfism - who made tens of millions of dollars playing....a dwarf - on HBO's Game of Thrones - goes on a podcast and criticizes Disney for casting 7 actors with dwarfism to play the 7 dwarves - and now suddenly Disney is saying they are rethinking the roles and 'taking a different approach' with Snow White's 7 dwarves and will been consulting with members of the dwarfism community. Huh? We really do live in a clown world.

Who made Peter Dinklage king of the dwarves? Apparently he feels like he's the only actor with dwarfism that should work in Hollywood lol. Would be crazy if his little comments on some podcast actually took 7 high-paying jobs away from 7 actors with dwarfism. Not exactly like these kinda roles in a major big budget Hollywood feature that Disney is going to promote the living shit out of come along that often for them. Guarantee every single one of them would've been getting a payday of at least $500k for being in the movie. Who knows, even more. This will be a $150+ million budget film is my guess.

Dinklage just trying to protect his clear cut spot as the go to dwarf in Hollywood. He don't want no one even encroaching on his turf.

So, Snow White (Brown) and THE Dwarf then?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 02:14:57 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 01, 2022, 02:13:05 PM

So, Snow White (Brown) and THE Dwarf then?

I'm down for that if the latin woman is half-naked most of the film and Dinklage gets to play his Tyrion Lannister character. I'd watch that shit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 01, 2022, 02:16:49 PM

You just described a really bad porn flick.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 01, 2022, 02:17:04 PM

He also played an intentional dwarf character in Elf.  He also played an ironically giant intentional dwarf character in Avengers.  

He also played Bolivar Trask in the X-Men reboot movies, but that role was not originally a dwarf in the comic book and I thought it was cool that they cast him because his height had no bearing on the character itself so why not?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 01, 2022, 02:41:48 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 01, 2022, 02:13:05 PM

So, Snow White (Brown) and THE Dwarf then?

Can’t…..stop…..laughing 
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 02:43:23 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 01, 2022, 02:17:04 PM

He also played an intentional dwarf character in Elf.  He also played an ironically giant intentional dwarf character in Avengers. 

He also played Bolivar Trask in the X-Men reboot movies, but that role was not originally a dwarf in the comic book and I thought it was cool that they cast him because his height had no bearing on the character itself so why not?

He’s a fantastic actor. Dude is one of my favorites. Just doesn’t make sense to me what his beef is with Snow White or why Disney immediately released a statement and are overreacting to something one really famous guy said on a podcast. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 02:44:19 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 01, 2022, 02:16:49 PM

You just described a really bad porn flick.

Well in a porn she’d be fully naked not half and there probably wouldn’t be any dwarfs around. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 01, 2022, 02:51:05 PM

wait isnt the title Snow White racist

got to change that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 03:23:12 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 02:10:20 PM

Disney casts a latin woman as Snow White in a live action remake of snow white and the 7 dwarves. Not that I give a shit - latin women are hotter anyway-  whatever - but it's suppose to be fairly tale about a German princess 

Dunkel Princess

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 05:09:03 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 01, 2022, 02:51:05 PM

wait isnt the title Snow White racist

got to change that

racism doesn’t exist if it’s directed at white people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 06:59:58 PM

Neil Young inks a promotional deal with Amazon Music. 

Dude has a problem with Joe Rogan having a couple of guests on that he doesn't like. Has no problem signing a deal however with an egomaniac billionaire who runs a literal monopoly - who does everything he can to avoid paying personal tax or his business paying tax, treats his workers like shit - how many horrific stories do we hear about Amazon employees having to shit in diapers or piss in bottles - busts up attempts at his workers forming a union - has a $1 billion contract with CIA/Pentagon - crushed all kinds of retail/mainstreet as he swallowed up the world and created a monopoly - copies the top-selling products of it's 3rd party sellers and then undercuts them in price and promotes their own Amazon branded knock off version in front of the original product they just knocked off. 

That Neil Young is a class act. Great judge of character too. Joe Rogan....BAAAAAAD. Jeff Bezos....GOOOOOOOOD. Lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 01, 2022, 07:05:03 PM

This country is doomed. 

I'm 55 and glad to not be 35.

Really scared for my kids and grand daughter.

Of course, however, the boys are well armed, and one is a Marine Sniper.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 01, 2022, 09:00:15 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/j2jH6G9.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 09:00:40 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 01, 2022, 07:05:03 PM

This country is doomed.

I'm 55 and glad to not be 35.

Really scared for my kids and grand daughter.

Of course, however, the boys are well armed, and one is a Marine Sniper.

yeah, agree with this all the way. this country has backslid for sure - not sure we're ever getting out of it either. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 01, 2022, 09:03:59 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 09:00:40 PM

yeah, agree with this all the way. this country has backslid for sure - not sure we're ever getting out of it either.

Well if it continues, perhaps you'll get your wish of the US becoming just another average ho hum country chugging along, and we can focus on ourselves and let the rest of the world do what it will.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 09:21:53 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 01, 2022, 09:03:59 PM

Well if it continues, perhaps you'll get your wish of the US becoming just another average ho hum country chugging along, and we can focus on ourselves and let the rest of the world do what it will.

don't really want the US to become just another average ho hum country, but I would like to see the US maybe not bomb, invade and kill other countries for no apparent reason and waste trillions of tax-payer dollars on pointless endless wars. 

US world dominance isn't going to end any time soon imo. No one else is as maniacal at building up their armed forces. And the budget for the US war machine never decreases. It always increases. The US spends more on defense than the next 12 countries combined - and would probably be even more than the next 12 countries combined if you take into account certain aspects of defense spending that should be included in the defense budget but aren't.

For instance. China has two aircraft carriers. The United States has 11 plus 9 "helo" carriers. China has 250-300 nukes. The US has 6,200. China's PLA Airforce has the 7th most powerful airforce in the world. The United States Air Force is the most powerful airforce in the world. The United States Navy is the 2nd most powerful airforce in the world. The United States Army is the 4th most powerful airforce in the world. The United States Marine Corps is the 5th most powerful airforce in the world.

Until someone knocks off the US's military might, not sure US is going anywhere. Our death and destruction machine is a lot better than everyone else. We kill people a lot better than everyone. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 10:30:15 PM

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1488604452865167361?s=20&t=ZhtL0PgfSrqi3lVD1Rz2VQ

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1488677902996713478?s=20&t=ZhtL0PgfSrqi3lVD1Rz2VQ

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1488679214727692290?s=20&t=ZhtL0PgfSrqi3lVD1Rz2VQ

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1488682620074573826?s=20&t=ZhtL0PgfSrqi3lVD1Rz2VQ

https://twitter.com/ColumbiaBugle/status/1488698352380297217?s=20&t=6sj6PuIA7mHXAGQJrIJQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 01, 2022, 11:58:32 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 02:10:20 PM

Disney casts a latin woman as Snow White in a live action remake of snow white and the 7 dwarves. Not that I give a shit - latin women are hotter anyway-  whatever - but it's suppose to be fairly tale about a German princess - what really makes me crack up is Peter Dinklage - a very famous actor with dwarfism - who made tens of millions of dollars playing....a dwarf - on HBO's Game of Thrones -

Gee, I hope he doesn't get type-cast.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Hawkinole on February 02, 2022, 01:51:22 AM

Recovery of the bus from the Pittsburgh bridge collapse is way more dramatic than the Weather Channel's two towing shows, "Highway Thru Hell" and Heavy Rescue 401. Recovering the Bus From That Collapsed Pittsburgh Bridge Was a Huge Effort (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusiasts/recovering-the-bus-from-that-collapsed-pittsburgh-bridge-was-a-huge-effort/ar-AATnxgC?ocid=msedgntp&fullscreen=true#image=2)

(https://i.imgur.com/gfv01dP.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2022, 06:06:51 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 05:09:03 PM

racism doesn’t exist if it’s directed at white people.

Whoopie says hi.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 02, 2022, 08:45:02 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 01, 2022, 11:58:32 PM

Gee, I hope he doesn't get type-cast.

Heh, indeed.

The type-casting is of his own choosing, but admittedly if you have dwarfism, then getting roles that are specifically and intentionally for dwarfs, is a pretty obvious path to making paychecks and putting food on the table.

MDot is challenging his action of climbing to great financial success playing a dwarf, and then effectively pulling up the ladder behind him.  And I agree, it seems selfish, and cruel.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 09:50:20 AM

13 Movie Myths That Are Making Us All Dumber (ranker.com) (https://www.ranker.com/list/movie-myths/nathan-gibson?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=historypost&pgid=642850749204637&utm_campaign=movie-myths&fbclid=IwAR3YzTPkUra4ERwH4im2rCQusHE29pKNYUrbEzQlnGLWiAPzdVTt7j8JxzU)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 09:51:25 AM

Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/100009167430011/videos/2321263014683243)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2022, 12:03:15 PM

How to lock your car and why

I locked my car. As I walked away I heard my car door unlock. I went back and locked my car again three times . Each time, as soon as I started to walk away, I would hear it unlock again!! Naturally alarmed, I looked around and there were two guys sitting in a car in the fire lane next to the store. They were obviously watching me intently, and there was no doubt they were somehow involved in this very weird situation . I quickly chucked the errand I was on, jumped in my car and sped away. I went straight to the police station, told them what had happened, and found out I was part of a new, and very successful, scheme being used to gain entry into cars. Two weeks later, my friend's son had a similar happening.... While traveling, my friend's son stopped at a roadside rest to use the bathroom. When he came out to his car less than 4-5 minutes later, someone had gotten into his car and stolen his cell phone, laptop computer, GPS navigator, briefcase.....you name it. He called the police and since there were no signs of his car being broken into, the police told him he had been a victim of the latest robbery tactic -- there is a device that robbers are using now to clone your security code when you lock your doors on your car using your key-chain locking device..

They sit a distance away and watch for their next victim. They know you are going inside of the store, restaurant, or bathroom and that they now have a few minutes to steal and run. The police officer said to manually lock your car door-by hitting the lock button inside the car -- that way if there is someone sitting in a parking lot watching for their next victim, it will not be you.

When you hit the lock button on your car upon exiting, it does not send the security code, but if you walk away and use the door lock on your key chain, it sends the code through the airwaves where it can be instantly stolen.This is very real.

Be wisely aware of what you just read and please pass this note on. Look how many times we all lock our doors with our remote just to be sure we remembered to lock them -- and bingo, someone has our code...and whatever was in our car. MANUALLY LOCK YOUR VEHICLE.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 02, 2022, 12:08:28 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 09:50:20 AM

13 Movie Myths That Are Making Us All Dumber (ranker.com) (https://www.ranker.com/list/movie-myths/nathan-gibson?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=historypost&pgid=642850749204637&utm_campaign=movie-myths&fbclid=IwAR3YzTPkUra4ERwH4im2rCQusHE29pKNYUrbEzQlnGLWiAPzdVTt7j8JxzU)

didn't get past #2 and how wrong it is. movies are not good representations, but an aed does not stop a heart so they can start cpr. an aed also won't really restart a completely flatlined stopped heart, but it most certainly doesn't stop a beating one, even one out of rhythm. they will kick one that's out of rhythm back into rhythm, and only works in certain circumstances. cpr is vitally important to helping this process, but an aed vastly increases chances of survival for cardiac arrests.

if you aren't yet, please get trained in cpr and aed use. they're extremely user friendly now, and relatively cheap, too. it's typically a 2-4 hr class, so not time consuming either.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 02, 2022, 12:11:02 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 02, 2022, 12:03:15 PM

How to lock your car and why

I locked my car. As I walked away I heard my car door unlock. I went back and locked my car again three times . Each time, as soon as I started to walk away, I would hear it unlock again!! Naturally alarmed, I looked around and there were two guys sitting in a car in the fire lane next to the store. They were obviously watching me intently, and there was no doubt they were somehow involved in this very weird situation . I quickly chucked the errand I was on, jumped in my car and sped away. I went straight to the police station, told them what had happened, and found out I was part of a new, and very successful, scheme being used to gain entry into cars. Two weeks later, my friend's son had a similar happening.... While traveling, my friend's son stopped at a roadside rest to use the bathroom. When he came out to his car less than 4-5 minutes later, someone had gotten into his car and stolen his cell phone, laptop computer, GPS navigator, briefcase.....you name it. He called the police and since there were no signs of his car being broken into, the police told him he had been a victim of the latest robbery tactic -- there is a device that robbers are using now to clone your security code when you lock your doors on your car using your key-chain locking device..

They sit a distance away and watch for their next victim. They know you are going inside of the store, restaurant, or bathroom and that they now have a few minutes to steal and run. The police officer said to manually lock your car door-by hitting the lock button inside the car -- that way if there is someone sitting in a parking lot watching for their next victim, it will not be you.

When you hit the lock button on your car upon exiting, it does not send the security code, but if you walk away and use the door lock on your key chain, it sends the code through the airwaves where it can be instantly stolen.This is very real.

Be wisely aware of what you just read and please pass this note on. Look how many times we all lock our doors with our remote just to be sure we remembered to lock them -- and bingo, someone has our code...and whatever was in our car. MANUALLY LOCK YOUR VEHICLE.

2006 called and wants its mass FW:FW:FW: email back. :)

This is a highly unlikely scenario for anyone with a remote car lock newer than the mid 90s.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/code-grabbers-remote-keyless-entry/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2022, 12:15:54 PM

My car won't even let me lock the door if it's open.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 02, 2022, 12:17:22 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2022, 12:15:54 PM

My car won't even let me lock the door if it's open.

I can lock all the other doors by pushing the inside auto lock button, and then I have to manually push the lock lever on the driver door, if I REALLY want to lock it without the key fob.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 12:20:06 PM

I was on the Florida turnpike in December and the signs say they will read your tag and send you a bill.  I just got mine, over a month later, for $10.50, which a grainy photo of my car tag.  It's pretty neat really.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2022, 01:22:11 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 02, 2022, 12:17:22 PM

I can lock all the other doors by pushing the inside auto lock button, and then I have to manually push the lock lever on the driver door, if I REALLY want to lock it without the key fob.

So hackers haven't made advances can't hurt to do it and with all the useless technology being implemented why not

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on February 02, 2022, 01:25:15 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 12:20:06 PM

I was on the Florida turnpike in December and the signs say they will read your tag and send you a bill.  I just got mine, over a month later, for $10.50, which a grainy photo of my car tag.  It's pretty neat really.

I get confused as to how I'm billed when I've visited Austin in recent years with all the toll roads that have sprang up since I lived there.  Supposedly you can get one TxTag (I don't have one) and you're good.  But I get billed by 3 different entities in the mail.  TxTag is only one.  Why are there so many people sending me bills?  How do I know the others would leave me alone if I purchased a TxTag?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 01:27:52 PM

I recall worrying about garage door hackers back in the day, they'd transmit codes until one hit and opened your door.  This sounds plausible to me but I never heard of it being a thing, perhaps because thieves generally are not very smart.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 02, 2022, 01:31:55 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 02, 2022, 01:22:11 PM

So hackers haven't made advances can't hurt to do it and with all the useless technology being implemented why not

No they really haven't made advances, not against the second generation of wireless entry, which has been around since the late 90s.  It's not that it can't be done, it's just that it's time-consuming and tedious and your average parking lot based thief is pretty lazy and stupid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 02, 2022, 01:42:41 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 02, 2022, 01:31:55 PM

No they really haven't made advances, not against the second generation of wireless entry, which has been around since the late 90s.  It's not that it can't be done, it's just that it's time-consuming and tedious and your average parking lot based thief is pretty lazy and stupid.

And if you’re skilled enough to do that, you can probably find lucrative legit work? Maybe. 

Let’s face it, the classics are classics for a reason. Spark plug on a string for the window and you’re in. (I’m sure this is not the case anymore, but it’s a good visual)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 02, 2022, 01:47:48 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 02, 2022, 01:42:41 PM

And if you’re skilled enough to do that, you can probably find lucrative legit work? Maybe.

Let’s face it, the classics are classics for a reason. Spark plug on a string for the window and you’re in. (I’m sure this is not the case anymore, but it’s a good visual)

Good point, that could certainly be a factor.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2022, 02:00:02 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 02, 2022, 01:22:11 PM

So hackers haven't made advances can't hurt to do it and with all the useless technology being implemented why not

There are cameras everywhere now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 02, 2022, 02:17:09 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 02, 2022, 01:31:55 PM

No they really haven't made advances, not against the second generation of wireless entry, which has been around since the late 90s.  It's not that it can't be done, it's just that it's time-consuming and tedious and your average parking lot based thief is pretty lazy and stupid.

if you read the whole link you posted it says they have advanced to using boosters for the new fobs that you don't even need to press the button to work. it says it's relatively cheap and easy to make the boosters too. even has a video of one in use.

i've never heard of it until that snopes article you posted, but it's apparently a thing.

i'm not worried about it though. my vehicle doesn't even have an 80's version fob, just good old fashion keys.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 02, 2022, 02:29:26 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 02, 2022, 02:17:09 PM

if you read the whole link you posted it says they have advanced to using boosters for the new fobs that you don't even need to press the button to work. it says it's relatively cheap and easy to make the boosters too. even has a video of one in use.

i've never heard of it until that snopes article you posted, but it's apparently a thing.

i'm not worried about it though. my vehicle doesn't even have an 80's version fob, just good old fashion keys.

You haven't heard of it because it's not something that's really happening in the real world.

Again, this email has been going around since 2006 if not earlier.  The exact words that Mr. N posted, are in those Snopes examples, from 2011, and 2006, etc.

There are about a million things you can do to protect better against car theft.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 02, 2022, 03:34:44 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 02, 2022, 02:29:26 PM

You haven't heard of it because it's not something that's really happening in the real world.

Again, this email has been going around since 2006 if not earlier.  The exact words that Mr. N posted, are in those Snopes examples, from 2011, and 2006, etc.

There are about a million things you can do to protect better against car theft.

right, i get that. but what mr n posted is not what i discussed.

you're right, though, it's not likely to happen to anyone. but they have advanced some. it's still likely just easier to pop a window out and snatch and grab. no one cares about a car alarm other than how soon can you turn it off cause it's annoying.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2022, 04:22:35 PM

Gotta love the Babylon Bee.

***************************************

(https://i.imgur.com/SpbSPBq.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: HK_Vol on February 02, 2022, 06:03:42 PM

BTW - Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
Never signed up, never will....

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/facebook-plummets-16-after-missing-across-board-guiding-below-expectations

Facebook Plummets 20% After Missing Across The Board; US Users Drop, Guidance Disappoints

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 02, 2022, 06:07:28 PM

Quote from: HK_Vol on February 02, 2022, 06:03:42 PM

BTW - Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
Never signed up, never will....

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/facebook-plummets-16-after-missing-across-board-guiding-below-expectations

Facebook Plummets 20% After Missing Across The Board; US Users Drop, Guidance Disappoints

too bad it didn't plummet 100%....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2022, 06:11:08 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 02, 2022, 01:31:55 PM

No they really haven't made advances, not against the second generation of wireless entry, which has been around since the late 90s.  It's not that it can't be done, it's just that it's time-consuming and tedious and your average parking lot based thief is pretty lazy and stupid.

Let us know if your Vehicle gets pinched :043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 02, 2022, 06:46:42 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 02, 2022, 06:11:08 PM

Let us know if your Vehicle gets pinched :043:

Sure, will do.  I've had remote keyless vehicles since 1995 and it hasn't happened yet, but tomorrow could always be the day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 06:55:35 PM

I lock our car usually by touching the exterior door handle.  It unlocks the same way basically.

And it has an effective antitheft device called "a clutch".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 07:02:16 PM

I don't really have antipathy for Facebook (or much else because I'm old and my angst is pretty much gone).  It's there, I use it a bit mostly for entertainment and keeping up with baseball and the Marines and some history stuff.  If it went defunct, I'd be momentarily chagrined I suppose and get over it.  Everyone loves to hate a billionaire it seems.

A billion is a thousand million, hard to believe really.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 02, 2022, 07:26:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 06:55:35 PM

I lock our car usually by touching the exterior door handle.  It unlocks the same way basically.

And it has an effective antitheft device called "a clutch".

LOL. 

My Jeep doesn't have a roof on it, but it's got the same antitheft device.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 02, 2022, 09:22:47 PM

is there a bigger douchebag in all of cable news than Jim Acosta? guy writes an entire shitty book that no one bought about how Donald Trump was mean to him and that he was in sooooo much danger as is freedom of the press - guy talks about that shit and the f**king douchebag never mentions Julian Assange once. lol. the guy is a f**king hack - not a journalist, he's just another shitty tv actor espousing propaganda and lies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 02, 2022, 09:37:12 PM

this tweet aged well...now that same party is red-baiting/red scaring like it's 1959.

https://twitter.com/TheDemocrats/status/260497619862835201?s=20&t=W7oTu3A_jVDVcOjWO5TzlA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 02, 2022, 09:42:41 PM

this is from April 21st, 2021...

"US intelligence" via their mouth-pieces in the mass corporate press has been saying for MONTHS that Russia is going to invade Ukraine. Yet they've haven't invaded Ukraine. If Russia was really going to invade - it wouldn't take them almost a year to invade. They'd just do it. In case you haven't noticed, "US intelligence" is full of shit as are their puppets in the mass corporate media.

https://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status/1383022106779267076?s=20&t=ZX4-7zWoinZOGhlfDq75Cw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on February 03, 2022, 09:17:12 AM

Top ISIS leader was killed in a US Special Forces raid in Northern Syria overnight.  Abu Ibrahim al-Hahimi al-Qurayshi died and took numerous children and women with him when his suicide vest exploded.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 03, 2022, 09:32:32 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on February 03, 2022, 09:17:12 AM

Top ISIS leader was killed in a US Special Forces raid in Northern Syria overnight.  Abu Ibrahim al-Hahimi al-Qurayshi died and took numerous children and women with him when his suicide vest exploded.

13 people were killed in this raid. 10 of them were women and children. 

I haven't read where it's been established that it was do to a suicide vest exploding, however. I doubt this very much. Drone bombings/raids by US special forces typically wind up with women & children dead, unfortunately.

Trump had the previous ISIS leader drone bombed to death, this guy was named leader now Biden had this guy killed. There will be a new leader to kill now. And it never ends.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 09:34:12 AM

I have not seen hard data on the percentage of drone strikes that kill noncombatants.  I suspect we hear about the ones that do and not as much about those that do not.

Ascertaining the status of any target sounds iffy to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 03, 2022, 09:35:34 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 09:34:12 AM

I have not seen hard data on the percentage of drone strikes that kill noncombatants.  I suspect we hear about the ones that do and not as much about those that do not.

there is no hard data because the pentagon hides it....so...yeah.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 09:48:46 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 03, 2022, 09:35:34 AM

there is no hard data because the pentagon hides it....so...yeah.

Then how can we know how often noncombatants are inadvertently  targeted and hit?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 03, 2022, 09:55:46 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 09:48:46 AM

Then how can we know how often noncombatants are inadvertently  targeted and hit?

FOIA lawsuits. NYT (shockingly) and other newspapers have done the digging. US has killed thousands and thousands of civilians with their drone strikes and raids in the middle east & north africa.

Oh...and via people like Julian Assange - who received classified documents and videos from a whistle-blower named Bradley Manning (now Chelsea) and published the videos and documents.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/19/us/politics/afghanistan-drone-strike-video.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 03, 2022, 09:56:26 AM

Enough already.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 10:24:35 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 03, 2022, 09:35:34 AM

there is no hard data because the pentagon hides it....so...yeah.

So, there is no hard data but we have FOIA information?  OK then.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 03, 2022, 10:30:53 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 02, 2022, 06:46:42 PM

Sure, will do.  I've had remote keyless vehicles since 1995 and it hasn't happened yet, but tomorrow could always be the day.

there's been times i've prayed it would happen. someone come take this pos so i can get something new.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 12:14:24 PM

I just changed our HVAC filters and was pondering filter quality.  The "better" ones seem to clog faster, and cost more, which makes sense.  One HVAC guy told me not to use them.  The cheapie blue filters don't filter much beyond a bowling ball.  I usually buy "in between" filters.  

I remember after market car filters advertising greater HP, which could be true, but I'd guess they might take you from 235 hp t0 235.6 hp at full throttle.  There was even a gadget that claimed to turbocharge your car, it was a simple fan thingee driven by the air coming in, so it added nothing but resistance.

I almost never check under the hood any more.  The car doesn't use oil, and I change it about every 11 months.  I guess their is an air filter there somewhere.  It only has 23,000 miles after nearly 4 years.

I once worked in filtration, briefly, it was in some respects a complex arena.  We were trying to see if a material we had would be useful as some kind of filter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 03, 2022, 12:34:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 12:14:24 PM

I just changed our HVAC filters and was pondering filter quality.  The "better" ones seem to clog faster, and cost more, which makes sense.  One HVAC guy told me not to use them.  The cheapie blue filters don't filter much beyond a bowling ball.  I usually buy "in between" filters. 

I remember after market car filters advertising greater HP, which could be true, but I'd guess they might take you from 235 hp t0 235.6 hp at full throttle.  There was even a gadget that claimed to turbocharge your car, it was a simple fan thingee driven by the air coming in, so it added nothing but resistance.

I almost never check under the hood any more.  The car doesn't use oil, and I change it about every 11 months.  I guess their is an air filter there somewhere.  It only has 23,000 miles after nearly 4 years.

I once worked in filtration, briefly, it was in some respects a complex arena.  We were trying to see if a material we had would be useful as some kind of filter.

Yeah, I remember that "vortex" thing that was supposed to go into your intake tube. Supposedly it would make the incoming air more turbulent to improve air/fuel mix. Literally no independent tests ever proved that it did anything.

When I move my Jeep to 35" tires, though, I might end up getting an intake kit to potentially offset some of the performance loss from the big-ass tires and wheels. I'm pretty sure those suckers are going to rob a big chunk of power. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 12:37:30 PM

Yeah, larger rims add a lot of rotational inertia, I doubt any intake kit would compensate for that.

Our HVACs are behind these large unhinged panels that are rather heavy, I dislike taking them off and putting them back, I'm thinking of getting some kind of hinged door.

We had to replace one, hopefully the other is OK for a while.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 03, 2022, 12:52:52 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 12:37:30 PM

Yeah, larger rims add a lot of rotational inertia, I doubt any intake kit would compensate for that.

Oh yeah, I'm talking about maybe replacing 5% of what is lost... Nowhere near a like-for-like compensation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 03, 2022, 02:34:13 PM

Ummm... Injecting a little policy stuff here.


Schumer falsely claims Supreme Court 'was all White men' until 1981, ignoring Thurgood Marshall | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/schumer-falsely-claims-supreme-court-white-men-1981-thurgood-marshall)


OK, so he screwed that one up by 14 years. 

He also said the court should look like the country it serves. That's fine, no problem on my end. That's how it should be.

So, nominate a Latino. We already have a Latina. Hispanic/Latino is 18% of our country, and growing.

Black is at 12%, and stagnant. 

The court has nine justices. One of those is black. 1/9 = 11%.


Or, better yet, nominate the best possible candidate, with a blindfold on. Is that such an ask? Let the best man or woman win, regardless of color. What a concept.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 02:39:00 PM

The "best possible person" is a concept, a hypothetical, based on an opinion.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 03, 2022, 03:17:14 PM

The best possible person in an uneven society is going to yield the privileged class nearly every time.  

It's a great way to keep things how they've always been.  It's a good way for certain people to feel comfortable at night.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 03, 2022, 03:18:13 PM

Im looking forward to the senate confirmation hearing for the next member of the SCOTUS

Cant wait to hear some applicant say they want to defund the police or some other crap

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 03, 2022, 03:20:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 03, 2022, 03:17:14 PM

The best possible person in an uneven society is going to yield the privileged class nearly every time. 

It's a great way to keep things how they've always been.  It's a good way for certain people to feel comfortable at night.

how bout we just nominate someone that will uphold the constitution

if they adhere to the constitution I dont care what color they are

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 04:06:59 PM

The hypothetical "best possible person" would be just that, no matter his or her caste or color.  But it's a theoretical and an opinion.

And I find parts of the Constitution unclear and subject to interpretation, which is why we had Madison-v-Marbury.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 03, 2022, 04:27:36 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 04:06:59 PM

The hypothetical "best possible person" would be just that, no matter his or her caste or color.  But it's a theoretical and an opinion.

And I find parts of the Constitution unclear and subject to interpretation, which is why we had Madison-v-Marbury.

yes but that doesnt take away the main goal of SCOTUS and that is to seek adherence to the Constitution

it is not to make new law but to rule on existing law and whether or not it follows the Constitution

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 03, 2022, 04:44:57 PM

So, I've been thinking about the whole diversity thing a bit of late...

I don't think we really have a very good understanding of what "intelligence" or even "reason" truly are... We have woefully inadequate knowledge about how the brain works, even less how the "mind" works. 

So here's my theory, which is probably controversial... 

Much of what we determine to be "intelligence" is based on highly evolved pattern-matching algorithms. The ability to quickly relate new experiences into known patterns, the ability to pick and choose from multiple patterns to integrate a response to situations that may not directly echo a pattern you previously know, etc. Those who we consider most "intelligent" are just simply better at this, their brains do this more effectively and briskly, than those who are less "intelligent". Some of the most "intelligent" are those who are able to see something that triggers pattern-matching but are able to recognize when something excludes that pattern's relevance. 

The purpose of education is to help us by exposing us to a very wide array of possible patterns for future use. General education gives a baseline. Specialized education [such as science/engineering, medicine, law] are no different, in that they deal with topics so specialized that you need training to even get a baseline of patterns to even get your foot in the door. 

That said, we integrate patterns throughout our entire life, not just via formal education. Many patterns are dependent on our upbringing and social/cultural forces of our place in life. Thus, the patterns that I recognize, as a white, male, middle-class, educated white-collar worker from an upper-middle-class very WASP-y Chicago suburb, will be very different than someone who perhaps *looks* like me and has the same nationality makeup but grew up on the south side of Chicago, only completed a high school education, particularly a parochial school, and went on to trade school to be a plumber. And it will be light-years different from, perhaps, the child of Cuban immigrants in South Florida who grew up in a primarily Spanish-speaking household and fought through that diversity to go to college and law school and is now an Appellate Court Justice with a potential nomination to SCOTUS. 

Here's where pattern matching can go wrong... If you have certain patterns in your brain, it can sometimes be nearly impossible to see things outside of the patterns you've learned. I'll tell you from experience, that some of the smartest engineers in the world can turn into some of the worst when they're trying to solve a problem that resembles a problem they've solved before but has a completely different root cause. They will beat their heads against the wall believing it's the previous problem, and when you finally find the real root cause, you have to beat them over the head with it to get them to see that it wasn't what they initially saw. It's REALLY hard to treat every problem as a new problem, and to try not to anchor yourself to past problems, because in a world where we all have 100 things going on at any time, it's easiest to simply classify it as what you know, first. 

The same thing can happen on SCOTUS. If all of SCOTUS are white male upper-class Harvard/Princeton grads, they are going to have a hell of a lot of smarts but likely have a relatively narrow group of patterns to match. Something that exists outside that pattern may not be impossible for them to handle, but it will likely be impossible for them to SEE without getting clued in by someone else whose pattern matches. 

Diversity of patterns is not encompassed by race, or sex, or whatever "external" category we can identify by sight... But those are often a proxy for very different patterns. And bringing different patterns to any problem-solving endeavor (of which SCOTUS is entirely one) will be important given the extraordinary diversity of cases we ask them to decide. 

Which is to say that there is value in diversity. Such that if you have two equally-qualified candidates for a slot on SCOTUS but one has the same upbringing and looks exactly like the other 8, and one has significant diversity of pattern through life experience, race, etc, diversity would be a virtue for diversity's sake. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 04:52:04 PM

I've met a few smart folks in my life, probably some post here.  What they could do exceptionally well is solve problems creatively.

I've met others with encyclopedic knowledge, I personally have a mind for trivia, but they could not do all that much with it except parrot it back.

I do agree about diversity in thought and experience being an asset against group think, we don't need nine identical Justices, even if the "best" however defined are all Harvard trained lawyers who were SCOTUS clerks and worked their way up the various levels of the bench.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 03, 2022, 05:57:00 PM

Of course... Ol' Joe might just be crafty...

Maybe "nominating a black woman" is his way of getting rid of his boat anchor of a VP. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 03, 2022, 06:05:40 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 03, 2022, 05:57:00 PM

Of course... Ol' Joe might just be crafty...

Maybe "nominating a black woman" is his way of getting rid of his boat anchor of a VP.

OMG no... Just no.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 03, 2022, 06:23:27 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 03, 2022, 03:20:26 PM

how bout we just nominate someone that will uphold the constitution

if they adhere to the constitution I dont care what color they are

Why wouldn't his nominee, no matter what smaller box they're a part of, not uphold the constitution?  

He could insist on nominating a gay, ginger Asian-American left-hander and that person is just as likely to uphold the constitution as the straight white male from Harvard.

You get that, don't you?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 03, 2022, 06:35:43 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 03, 2022, 05:57:00 PM

Of course... Ol' Joe might just be crafty...

Maybe "nominating a black woman" is his way of getting rid of his boat anchor of a VP.

she's even more unpopular than him. surprisingly. should've never picked her- she's a phony, vapid, brain dead moron - but he did it to himself - he promised to - you guessed it - pick a "woman of color" to be his VP. he boxed himself in - and picked a literal f*king moron.

It's racial pandering for votes and PR via identity politics. That's all it is. The Democrats are losing black and latin votes in record numbers. Thanks in part to President Shit-for-Brains- who has been a disaster - and that disaster is only getting worse by the day.

Even if he picks a woman of color - she'll be virtually the same as any white corporatist pro big-business, pro monopoly, pro oligarchy, pro security state, pro executive branch judge. She'll just be black. It's all PR and pandering. Just an empty gesture to win back black/latin votes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 03, 2022, 07:22:44 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 03, 2022, 06:23:27 PM

Why wouldn't his nominee, no matter what smaller box they're a part of, not uphold the constitution? 

He could insist on nominating a gay, ginger Asian-American left-hander and that person is just as likely to uphold the constitution as the straight white male from Harvard.

You get that, don't you?

what I get is all the crazies out there that want to take our constitutional rights away

just wait for all the things that come out in the hearing 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 03, 2022, 07:48:24 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 03, 2022, 02:34:13 PM

Or, better yet, nominate the best possible candidate, with a blindfold on. Is that such an ask? Let the best man or woman win, regardless of color. What a concept.

I don't know this was going to inject much policy, as originally hoped. 

But there are of course a few complicating factors. Best has a couple vectors. This branch of government has been used to anchor shifts in power for a while. Youth has long been part of what makes a candidate, only because these folks are being used as proxies for their nominators, and having more influence is seen as better. The big downside of this is that a lot of relatively inexperienced judges get shifted into the role, develop as they do. 

The insistence on hitting a certain demographic category is a time-honored one. Been with the court for maybe a century? Both parties contributing. So fulfilling that promise wouldn't be outside the norm, even if it's a tradition worth moving away from. 

A few spots I wouldn't mind seeing more as elements of the profile:
-Public law school grad (there's value in not being in a narrow cohort)
-Former public defender (a perspective highly underrepresented in that arena, but very important to those rights we always talk about)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 03, 2022, 07:54:48 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 03, 2022, 07:48:24 PM

I don't know this was going to inject much policy, as originally hoped.

But there are of course a few complicating factors. Best has a couple vectors. This branch of government has been used to anchor shifts in power for a while. Youth has long been part of what makes a candidate, only because these folks are being used as proxies for their nominators, and having more influence is seen as better. The big downside of this is that a lot of relatively inexperienced judges get shifted into the role, develop as they do.

The insistence on hitting a certain demographic category is a time-honored one. Been with the court for maybe a century? Both parties contributing. So fulfilling that promise wouldn't be outside the norm, even if it's a tradition worth moving away from.

A few spots I wouldn't mind seeing more as elements of the profile:
-Public law school grad (there's value in not being in a narrow cohort)
-Former public defender (a perspective highly underrepresented in that arena, but very important to those rights we always talk about)

THIS.

All this.

Has there ever been a SCOTUS justice that wasn't from Yale, Princeton, or Harvard? Has there ever been a SCOTUS justice that was a former public defender and didn't come from a giant corporate law firm? I believe the answer to both is no.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 03, 2022, 08:23:27 PM

this scotus talk is small potatoes in the immediate. what terrifies me is the julian assange case. he either needs to win his extradition appeal in the UK or the DOJ needs to drop the charges immediately. there has never been a bigger threat to the first amendment...in oh like...ever. not sure there is a bigger issue facing the country than this right now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 03, 2022, 08:24:15 PM

this is f**king amazing. and incredible. this is an actual reporter. need more of them. immediately. 

https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1489369535471923201?s=20&t=Ry4JzHxGoC1uwC8-3i0VfA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 03, 2022, 08:35:48 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 03, 2022, 07:54:48 PM

THIS.

All this.

Has there ever been a SCOTUS justice that wasn't from Yale, Princeton, or Harvard? Has there ever been a SCOTUS justice that was a former public defender and didn't come from a giant corporate law firm? I believe the answer to both is no.

I think youre about to see one

and she will even be a community activist 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 03, 2022, 10:27:01 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 03, 2022, 07:22:44 PM

what I get is all the crazies out there that want to take our constitutional rights away

just wait for all the things that come out in the hearing

How many of these crazies are out there?  How many would be in the running for a SCOTUS nomination?  

Your boogeyman isn't about to put on a robe and wield a gavel, friend.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 03, 2022, 10:46:33 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 03, 2022, 10:27:01 PM

How many of these crazies are out there?  How many would be in the running for a SCOTUS nomination? 

Your boogeyman isn't about to put on a robe and wield a gavel, friend.

it basically comes down to the fact I dont trust Biden to do anything thats good for this country

He refuses to control our southern border 

He has weaponized various Government agencies to not only spy on Americans but to attack parents for protesting
the way their school is being run

We have inflation growing every day under his leadership

On the national front he is putting our nation in danger by pretending we have any business at all in Ukraine

why in Hell would I trust him not to nominate a complete idiot to SCOTUS

mid terms cant get here fast enough

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2022, 10:49:45 PM

who was the last president to "control" the southern border?

there's never been a wall

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 03, 2022, 10:53:20 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 03, 2022, 10:49:45 PM

who was the last president to "control" the southern border?

there's never been a wall

nice try but Im not biting on that one

what about the Nebraska mascot

I think they should change his hand signal to shooting the bird

that cant be racist as I see all races doing it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2022, 10:58:43 PM

herbie husker was flashing the OK hand gesture before it was cornsidered racist by anyone

why not go after the racist that turned a harmless gesture into a racist sign?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 03, 2022, 11:01:47 PM

The Longhorn hook 'em handsign is considered kinda like flippin' the bird in Italy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 03, 2022, 11:04:43 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 03, 2022, 10:58:43 PM

herbie husker was flashing the OK hand gesture before it was cornsidered racist by anyone

why not go after the racist that turned a harmless gesture into a racist sign?

there you go 

I agree 100%

Im a little surprised the Nebraska higherups appear to be bending a knee on this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 03, 2022, 11:05:40 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 03, 2022, 11:01:47 PM

The Longhorn hook 'em handsign is considered kinda like flippin' the bird in Italy.

It sure is Id forgotten that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2022, 11:05:57 PM

as long as it's not racist or sexist or political

screw the sooners

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 03, 2022, 11:08:08 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 03, 2022, 11:05:57 PM

as long as it's not racist or sexist or political

screw the sooners

was it the sooners who brought this up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 03, 2022, 11:09:11 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 03, 2022, 11:05:57 PM

as long as it's not racist or sexist or political

screw the sooners

It loosely translates to eff you, like the bird.

But what it literally means is "I'm putting horns on you" and what that figuratively translates to is "I'm cuckolding you" and what that generally is intended to suggest is "I'm banging your wife and everyone knows it but you."

Or so the Italians told me whilst I was there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 03, 2022, 11:09:43 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 03, 2022, 11:08:08 PM

was it the sooners who brought this up

Does it matter?  It's always appropriate to say screw the sooners because ou sucks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 04, 2022, 12:00:35 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 03, 2022, 07:54:48 PM

THIS.

All this.

Has there ever been a SCOTUS justice that wasn't from Yale, Princeton, or Harvard? Has there ever been a SCOTUS justice that was a former public defender and didn't come from a giant corporate law firm? I believe the answer to both is no.

Yes. In part because SCOTUS predates all those schools. 

Five justices had no legal education at universities at all, two in the 20th century. 

The last appointee was the first non-Ivy since 1975. Princeton hasn't had one since 1922. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 04, 2022, 06:20:16 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 03, 2022, 07:54:48 PM

THIS.

All this.

Has there ever been a SCOTUS justice that wasn't from Yale, Princeton, or Harvard? Has there ever been a SCOTUS justice that was a former public defender and didn't come from a giant corporate law firm? I believe the answer to both is no.

The newest justice went to Notre Dame for law school.

As for the second question.. I doubt it.

I nominate Maximum Sam.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2022, 07:50:23 AM

Back in the day, Justices didn't come from the corporate world because it didn't exist for lawyers, and many were "self taught".

Just weeks before Thomas Jefferson was to begin his presidency in 1801, incumbent John Adams appointed John Marshall as the young nation’s fourth chief justice. Generally considered to be the greatest jurist to fill that role, Marshall served under Jefferson, his political rival (and second cousin once removed), and four other presidents over the next three decades. Marshall studied law at William & Mary under the tutelage of George Wythe in 1780. Marshall’s tenure here was brief but potent in forming the character of the person who would lay the foundations of American constitutional law.

Largely self-educated, Marshall was born on September 24, 1755, in what is now Fauquier County, in the foothills of Virginia’s Blue Ridge Mountains. He was the oldest of 15 children of Thomas Marshall and Mary Randolph Keith. In youth he acquired a lifelong taste for English literature, poetry and history. Destined for the bar, Marshall set aside his law studies in 1775 to fight in the American War of Independence. As an officer in the Continental Army, he fought in the battles of Brandywine, Germantown, and Monmouth. He endured the sufferings at Valley Forge during the harsh winter of 1777-78. He was on leave from the army in 1780 when he attended Wythe’s lectures on law at the College. During his College sojourn, Marshall was elected to the Phi Beta Kappa Society. In nearby Yorktown he courted his future wife, Mary Willis (“Polly”) Ambler.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2022, 07:56:49 AM

List of law schools attended by United States Supreme Court justices - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_law_schools_attended_by_United_States_Supreme_Court_justices)

The most popular were Harvard, Yale, and Columbia, but quite a few hail from some other program.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2022, 08:00:56 AM

Midtown grew by 5,000 residential units in 2021—the most in history | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/midtown-development-growth-report-5000-residential-units)

The population is listed at just under 42,000, so more than 10% growth in people living here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2022, 08:17:13 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/WUXrRNn.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 04, 2022, 01:51:12 PM

https://twitter.com/ryanlongcomedy/status/1489390055034695694?s=20&t=--_-Cjh11ytcrTXsMZ6cHw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 04, 2022, 05:10:14 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 04, 2022, 01:51:12 PM

https://twitter.com/ryanlongcomedy/status/1489390055034695694?s=20&t=--_-Cjh11ytcrTXsMZ6cHw

😂😂😂.   Classic.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 04, 2022, 05:26:44 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 04, 2022, 12:00:35 AM

Yes. In part because SCOTUS predates all those schools.

Harvard was started in 1636, Yale 1701, and Princeton 1746. SCOUTS was founded in 1789. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 04, 2022, 05:38:59 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 04, 2022, 05:10:14 PM

😂😂😂.  Classic. 

that comedian has some pretty funny stuff....so does this comedian...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpHIkX2NxCQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2022, 05:42:32 PM

Pretty good, if everything is weird ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 04, 2022, 07:22:58 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 04, 2022, 06:20:16 AM

I nominate Maximum Sam.

Toss in Timothy Leary while you're at it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 04, 2022, 09:06:59 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 04, 2022, 06:20:16 AM

The newest justice went to Notre Dame for law school.

As for the second question.. I doubt it.

I nominate Maximum Sam.

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/elayWWez6NmSIhMaop/giphy.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 04, 2022, 10:08:09 PM

Michael Avenatti convicted today in court of stealing $300k from his pornstar client Stormy Daniels. How many convictions is this now in the past couple years for the former media darling? Like 4-5? Lol. Did Joe Rogan ever have him on as a guest? Just saying...

https://twitter.com/redsteeze/status/1489700646768893958?s=20&t=lH9MbXT0R4X7y2lek4wLng

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 04, 2022, 11:06:52 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 04, 2022, 05:26:44 PM

Harvard was started in 1636, Yale 1701, and Princeton 1746. SCOUTS was founded in 1789.

Should've said the law schools, which it does.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 05, 2022, 12:38:23 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 04, 2022, 05:26:44 PM

Harvard was started in 1636, Yale 1701, and Princeton 1746. SCOUTS was founded in 1789.

Damn, and I think Rivals is even older.  I think they had Stagg as a 3*

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 07:07:48 AM

Back in the day, a lot of lawyers didn't go to "law school", mostly because they didn't exist at all until the country was founded.  It is interesting how today we now need droves of lawyers.  I noticed off I-75 south of here that a good percentage of billboards were for injury lawyers.

The Litchfield Law School of Litchfield, Connecticut (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litchfield,_Connecticut), was the first independent law school established in America for reading law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_law). Founded and led by lawyer Tapping Reeve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapping_Reeve), the proprietary school was unaffiliated with any college or university.^{[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litchfield_Law_School#cite_note-3)} (While Litchfield was independent, a long-term debate resulted in the 1966 recognition of William & Mary Law School (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_%26_Mary_Law_School) as the first law school to have been affiliated with a university.)^{[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litchfield_Law_School#cite_note-4)}

Reeve began teaching his first student in 1774 and was teaching by lecture by 1784. Reeve later became the Chief Justice of the Connecticut Supreme Court (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut_Supreme_Court). The school closed in 1833, having educated over 1,100 students, including Aaron Burr (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Burr) and John C. Calhoun (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Calhoun). The law school, including Reeve's house, was declared a National Historic Landmark (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Historic_Landmark), in 1965, as the Tapping Reeve House and Law School,^{[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litchfield_Law_School#cite_note-nhlsum-2)[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litchfield_Law_School#cite_note-nrhpinv2-5)} which is owned and operated by the Litchfield Historical Society as a museum displaying life in a 19th-century period school.^{[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litchfield_Law_School#cite_note-lhsl-6)} The Society also operates the Litchfield History Museum.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 05, 2022, 08:05:52 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/bG4otIa.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 09:22:38 AM

MARTA unveils bus rapid transit plans for Southwest Atlanta | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/marta-bus-rapid-transit-plans-southwest-atlanta)

I'm more of a fan of bus rapid transit than light (or heavy) rail in cities.  A bus is obviously more flexible, one could envision grade separated bus lanes in some areas, and they can operate on streets when that isn't feasible.  We have a need for more east-west "transit" around midtown in my opinion and some areas are open enough to provide land for bridges for buses.  The buses here run on NG and don't stink at least, and could be electric or at least hybrid.

MARTA claims to want light rail on the Beltline, but I prefer the BL to be for people to walk over light rail, which is what it is today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 09:52:23 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/tKiDbco.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 05, 2022, 01:49:08 PM

around 100 old Joe Rogan podcast episodes deleted from Spotify. None dealing with COVID - everyone deleted has been many years old. his audience has actually shrunk since going exclusively to Spotify - they definitely needed him more than he needed them. Spotify has been aggressively trying to capture the podcast market and dethrone Apple the past couple years, investing billions into podcasts - and it's worked - and in large part because of Rogan who is the single biggest podcaster on planet earth - as Spotify have now toppled Apple and are the biggest podcast platform there is.

I wonder if he's thinking...who needs this bullshit anymore? If he ever decides to get investors and start his own thing, sign-up all his friends to do their own podcasts on his network and take it public - he'd probably become a billionaire.

https://www.engadget.com/spotify-deletes-joe-rogan-experience-episodes-112104415.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 02:10:45 PM

I barely know anything about Rogan, I did read he said he'd probably vote for Bernie Sanders.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 05, 2022, 02:18:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 02:10:45 PM

I barely know anything about Rogan, I did read he said he'd probably vote for Bernie Sanders.

he was on the tv show NewsRadio in the '90s - one of the best network sitcoms ever if you ask me- headlined by Phil Hartman (RIP) - who is arguably the SNL GOAT imo - he was a semi-successful stand-up comic - not huge- but he was a working stand-up with specials on Comedy Central - he parlayed that into making a ton of money as the host of a very popular reality tv show called Fear Factor, he's been the voice of the UFC for over 20 years, and he's now the largest podcaster on planet earth.

Pretty weird and interesting career arch he's had.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 05, 2022, 02:22:51 PM

this is pretty astounding to me, but Tucker Carlson of FoxNews has the largest audience of Democrats in the key demo aged 25-54 of any of the cable news shows - Mister Rachel Maddow included. 

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1490018270740684808?s=20&t=moqHjDB1XjK1LvCjPgoYPQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 05, 2022, 02:28:01 PM

Oh and re: Spotify/Rogan - music artists should want their music off Spotify. But not because of Joe Rogan. Because Spotify pays them almost nothing or in some cases literally nothing.

Taylor Swift - one of the 5 or so largest pop music artists in the entire world - very publicly slammed Spotify and in 2014 she pulled her music off Spotify for years. I believe it only recently came back to Spotify.

also: the record companies actually all own a piece of Spotify and the record companies and publishing companies are the only ones making any money off Spotify. Artists aren't really making jack. The only ones who are really making anything substantial are the ones who also own their own publishing rights.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 05, 2022, 02:48:54 PM

Musical acts make $1 million+ per concert (if they're doing arenas), so they're not in the poor house.


Rogan has $100 million, so there's no need for him to do anything different.  His ascension has been interesting.  He's sort of done the McDonalds thing of being consistent.  Not amazing, not perfect.  Just consistent - grinding it out.  He's been podcasting for 20+ years.  And despite being gullible for conspiracy theories (even the really dumb ones), the one biggest thing he's had going for him was his lack of an ego.  He's said countless times that he's an idiot, that he's an expert on nothing, and that no one should base their political decisions on what he says.

He has had experts in an incredible number of different fields on, talking for 2-3 hours, while asking questions and for clarifications just as any layperson would.  THAT is what's drawn people in.  He's not always up against a commercial break or arbitrarily ending the show at a set number of minutes, and it's allowed for conversations to occur that you can't find anywhere else.  Not because he's particularly deep or knowledgeable, but because he's never been beholden to anyone.  He ends the podcast when everything's been fleshed out, not because a focus group says an ideal podcast length is 92 minutes.

I can't tell you how many times I've been enjoying one of my other podcasts and they "need" to wrap it up.....because.....reasons?  Because if you spoke about philosophy or college football or religion for 7 more minutes, the world would explode?  All your listeners would complain?  What?  It's stupid.

Joe Rogan isn't great at anything except not being a slave to the clock.  The mainstream everything can't handle that.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 02:56:20 PM

I prefer reading personally if a person has a point to make.  I have never listened to any of these podcast things, probably a reflection of my ancienity.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 05, 2022, 03:13:20 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 02:56:20 PM

I prefer reading personally if a person has a point to make.  I have never listened to any of these podcast things, probably a reflection of my ancienity.

they are a great way to kill time, open your mind, look at things from different viewpoints and to learn something while you're doing something. if you drive a lot or work at a desk a lot - great thing to have playing in the background. beats the hell out of a lot of other crap you could have on.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 05, 2022, 03:22:43 PM

This isn't news, but whatever. 

So for the last few weeks, I've been going to the Y to use the pool because I need to mix in some low-impact cardio. Just before the locker room exit to the pool, you have a row of showers, which are there to wash off chlorine as you come out, or sweat/grime off if you're going in. This is fine. 

But I do not and never will understand why a subset of people insist on using this as a main shower. This gym has showers. The private kind. And if you want an open shower, hell, there might be one that isn't also a hallway to the damn pool. These people finish up in the hot tub or sauna or whatever, and then go to those showers. On purpose. 

This means a gauntlet of buck-ass nekkid people as I go to and from the pool. I'm catching splash off as I walk through. Some of these folks are just going to town with the soap. Who are these degenerates and why? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 05, 2022, 03:23:46 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 02:56:20 PM

I prefer reading personally if a person has a point to make.  I have never listened to any of these podcast things, probably a reflection of my ancienity.

They're perfect if you drive a lot.  There are literally millions of them  on every topic you can think of.  You could try a woodworking one or an author's channel.  
Hell, there's probably a podcast about downtown Atlanta construction....and if there's not, you could start one.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 03:23:55 PM

I enjoy the quiet, not something in the background.  My wife plays classical music all the time, but she just got hearing aids and plays it through them now.

I find music or someone talking to be distracting if I'm trying to focus on something, like getting my taxes in order, as I'm doing now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 05, 2022, 03:25:57 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 05, 2022, 02:48:54 PM

Musical acts make $1 million+ per concert (if they're doing arenas), so they're not in the poor house.

I know what you're saying, but one thing really doesn't have to do with the other. What artists make at concerts really isn't related to them not being compensated fairly or properly by Spotify. And most artists on Spotify don't make that kind of money performing at concerts, nor will they ever. Spotify is a great thing for consumers - they have access to hundreds of millions of songs at their fingertips, but the artists are definitely taking a bit of a shafting when it comes to royalty payments.

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 05, 2022, 02:48:54 PM

Rogan has $100 million, so there's no need for him to do anything different.  His ascension has been interesting.  He's sort of done the McDonalds thing of being consistent.  Not amazing, not perfect.  Just consistent - grinding it out.  He's been podcasting for 20+ years.  And despite being gullible for conspiracy theories (even the really dumb ones), the one biggest thing he's had going for him was his lack of an ego.  He's said countless times that he's an idiot, that he's an expert on nothing, and that no one should base their political decisions on what he says.

Rogan's deal with Spotify was worth $100 million over 3 years I believe, and it was a terrific deal for him because it's straight licensing. Spotify doesn't own any part of his show or company, and when the deal is up he's free to up and take all his episodes anywhere. Great deal for both of them. Really. Rogan got a fat pay-check and Spotify got to claim the podcast throne from Apple off Rogan's back.

I think his biggest draw is his open-mind and his humility. He comes across as a very humble, like-able guy. He comes across as a very genuine, kind person. There is no bullshit or pretension to anything about him. He hasn't "sold out" or become some hack rooting for one team or out-come no matter what. He's not rooting for one team over the other team. One thing I like about him is that he rants against tribalism constantly. He's pretty much the same guy now that he was when he started his podcast out of his garage in 2009 when no one was listening or watching.

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 05, 2022, 02:48:54 PM

He has had experts in an incredible number of different fields on, talking for 2-3 hours, while asking questions and for clarifications just as any layperson would.  THAT is what's drawn people in.  He's not always up against a commercial break or arbitrarily ending the show at a set number of minutes, and it's allowed for conversations to occur that you can't find anywhere else.  Not because he's particularly deep or knowledgeable, but because he's never been beholden to anyone.  He ends the podcast when everything's been fleshed out, not because a focus group says an ideal podcast length is 92 minutes.

I can't tell you how many times I've been enjoying one of my other podcasts and they "need" to wrap it up.....because.....reasons?  Because if you spoke about philosophy or college football or religion for 7 more minutes, the world would explode?  All your listeners would complain?  What?  It's stupid.

Joe Rogan isn't great at anything except not being a slave to the clock.  The mainstream everything can't handle that.

I agree with pretty much all of this, except the end. I think Joe Rogan is great at connecting with other people. He's just a humble, genuine, down to earth regular guy. And I think that's one of the things that has made him so big right now. People appreciate sincerity, authenticity, and honesty. Especially when they get it almost nowhere else.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 03:34:15 PM

I tried listening to the Ted Talks when they were a thing.  I think it reminds me too much of "work" when I had to sit and listen to some exec yammer on about nonsense.

Everyone is different.

There are several good web sites about ATL construction stuff that I glance over when I'm amind to and bored.

My wife thinks I'm a bit odd.  She listens to these pod casts called Odino, her daughter works for it, and I suspect he's pretty interesting really, but it's all in French.  Might as well be in Greek.  I attended one of their concerts in Paris, it was well done actually.

OdinO - Orchestre Symphonique Paris | Concert Grand Rex (https://www.odino.fr/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 05, 2022, 03:34:40 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 03:23:55 PM

I find music or someone talking to be distracting if I'm trying to focus on something, like getting my taxes in order, as I'm doing now.

Dewey,Cheetum & Howe great bean counters been using them for yrs  💰💰💰

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 05, 2022, 03:36:11 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 03:34:15 PM

My wife thinks I'm a bit odd.  

Maybe if you could hit a slider high and inside she'd think more of you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 03:38:56 PM

Back in the day, I went to a work dinner with some folks in the division, I wasn't interested but I was new to the division and went and sat at a table by myself.  Another fellow joined me, I knew him from a while back, and the other tables filled up 8 seats to a table, fine with me.  Well, the VP (who was horrible) was glad handing all around saying hello and what not, and when she came to sit down, the only table with open chairs left was mine, so she sat with the two of us, and suddenly there was a rush of sychophantic others to move to the 5 chairs remaining at our table.

I managed not to say anything.

Years later I went to another meeting, not dinner, and sat again by myself at a table in the back and the VP (different guy) walked by early and said "Dyer, could you get any further from the podium?" and laughed and left, and came back later to give his speech.  Meanwhile,  the head technologist was also strolling about and happened to sit at my table as well (our offices were next to each other, I knew him well, decent enough fellow), and suddenly there was a such, same as above, to occupy the remaining seats.

Not everyone at work was like this, but plenty were.  Face time with the higher ups was highly prized.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 03:40:04 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 05, 2022, 03:36:11 PM

Maybe if you could hit a slider high and inside she'd think more of you

No hit curve ball, hit fast ball very good.

I bat lefty anyway.

I only had two solid hits at camp, was disappointed.  They were solid though, doubles.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 05, 2022, 03:59:28 PM

this is hilarious. having said that, I hate Starbucks, always have, this is nothing new as their entire business model from day one was to price gouge the sh*t out of their customers. their margins have to be stupid high- they are like the Apple of coffee. both these companies mottos have to be: "hey, how can we rape our customers more" - but alas....like a complete dumbass I still find myself going to Starbucks and also buying Apple products. There just isn't any competition for Starbucks- they have a monopoly and can charge whatever the f**k they want. sure, in your own town or area you might know some great little coffee spots or cafes - but if you travel a lot or drive a lot - where you going to go? Dunkin Donuts is trash. I wish illy's had cafe's all over the US - I'd go there over Starbucks 10/10 when I want espresso & a croissant in a pinch.

https://twitter.com/DanPriceSeattle/status/1488726631493550085?s=20&t=5yLzCvAqUoBAUH6QTkyXpw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 05, 2022, 04:04:19 PM

https://twitter.com/TimJDillon/status/1490019041179746304?s=20&t=ulTz8EMGHIsKSftdxqOvPg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 04:05:12 PM

Earnings season has claimed yet another victim. Starbucks Corporation (SBUX (https://www.tipranks.com/stocks/sbux/stock-analysis)) released its earnings report this week, with mixed results. Just as for many labor and asset heavy entities, the global specialty coffee chain had its strong domestic sales overshadowed by the elevated commodity costs and staffing shortages caused by the Omicron variant of COVID-19.  
Following the report, analysts themselves remain mixed on Starbuck’s outlook. One of the more neutral voices on the stock is Christopher O’Cull of Stifel Nicolaus, who wrote that the persisting input cost headwinds, Chinese COVID-19 policies, and uncertain margin performance are holding back SBUX’s potential for upside.  
The analyst rated Starbucks a Hold, and assigned a price target of $112. This target suggests a possible 12-month upside of 14.60%.  
In its earnings call, Starbucks reported earnings per share (EPS (https://www.tipranks.com/glossary/e/earnings-per-share)) below Wall Street consensus estimates. However, the company did manage to see record demand for its food segment, and strong growth regarding its loyalty program memberships.  
In addition to supply side constraints, which raised commodity prices, O’Cull added that “higher than anticipated training and onboarding costs for new partners” have weighed on Starbucks. The difficult labor market is rearing its ugly head considerably as SBUX “continues to compete for talent.” Additionally, quarantine and other disruptions from the widespread Omicron variant have impacted Starbuck’s balance sheet.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 04:07:54 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/GP1Mlw9.png)

Their earnings per share over recent quarters.

I dislike their coffee and we have plenty of alternatives near us.  They do seem pretty busy when we walk by though.

Some might be interested to know that for profit companies are in business for profit, maximizing same.  It's a near concept.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 04:16:49 PM

Starbucks Corp. SBUX, -0.98% (https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/SBUX?mod=MW_story_quote) disclosed that Chief Executive Kevin Johnson's total compensation for 2021 totaled $20.43 million in 2021, up 39% from $14.67 million in 2020, which was down from $19.24 million in 2019. According to the coffee giant's 2021 proxy statement released late Friday, Johnson's base salary rose 4.5% from a year ago to $1.61 million, while the value of stock awards grew 32% to $14.76 million and non-equity incentive plan compensation increased 117% to $4.03 million, while all other compensation fell 69% to $30,538.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 05, 2022, 04:51:46 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 03:40:04 PM

No hit curve ball, hit fast ball very good.

I bat lefty anyway.

I only had two solid hits at camp, was disappointed.  They were solid though, doubles. 

So it's a righty screw ball ya feast on then,glad we got that cleared up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 04:57:47 PM

I feasted on slow fastballs a bit up and away, usually, or low fastballs inner half, where said pitches are maybe 60 mph.

A couple of the fellows can throw in the 70s.  I tried to hit off Chris Mullen two years ago, he was throwing 90s.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 06:24:20 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/xRTEn0b.jpg)
This was me.  He had this go pro sitting on the ground, it took a beating at times.

(https://i.imgur.com/hOF1M30.png)

I got called out on a bang bang.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 05, 2022, 06:36:53 PM

BBQ Baseball - Low & Slow

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 05, 2022, 06:39:06 PM

My one claim to baseball fame is sitting on the Texas City HS bench and watching our team play Alvin Tx and face their star Nolan Ryan.

His fast ball looked like a long white salmi

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2022, 07:43:14 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 05, 2022, 03:59:28 PM

this is hilarious. having said that, I hate Starbucks, always have, this is nothing new as their entire business model from day one was to price gouge the sh*t out of their customers. their margins have to be stupid high- they are like the Apple of coffee. both these companies mottos have to be: "hey, how can we rape our customers more" - but alas....like a complete dumbass I still find myself going to Starbucks and also buying Apple products. There just isn't any competition for Starbucks- they have a monopoly and can charge whatever the f**k they want. sure, in your own town or area you might know some great little coffee spots or cafes - but if you travel a lot or drive a lot - where you going to go? Dunkin Donuts is trash. I wish illy's had cafe's all over the US - I'd go there over Starbucks 10/10 when I want espresso & a croissant in a pinch.

https://twitter.com/DanPriceSeattle/status/1488726631493550085?s=20&t=5yLzCvAqUoBAUH6QTkyXpw

I have the solution to Starbucks.

I bought a Bunn.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 08:16:40 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/uZhZLNt.png)

Generally regarded as the most brilliant American physicist ever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 06, 2022, 08:19:30 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2022, 07:43:14 AM

I have the solution to Starbucks.

I bought a Bunn.

😂😂.  I rarely by a cup of coffee- so the few times I have been in a Starbucks has been to buy someone else a gift card.  
not a fan of the taste of their coffee. Their Breakfast blend is decent- and I can buy those at Costco at the same price as my preferred coffee- Dunkin Donuts. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2022, 08:24:34 AM

My favorite is whatever is on sale.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 06, 2022, 08:30:17 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2022, 08:24:34 AM

My favorite is whatever is on sale.

I didn’t picture you as a 

:grande Latte Peppermint mocha Carmel Frosted Flakes with whipped cream 

kinda dude. 😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 09:23:18 AM

Costco has their own brand of Columbian, it used to be $10 for a 3 pound can, now it's $13, but still a steal, as good as I've found anywhere.  I use a French press.

Coffee shops are VERY popular around here, the young crowd, I think it's more of a social thing than liking coffee.  We used to go to Cafe Intermezzo that had a ginormous brass coffee machine from Austria but they are crowded all the time so we patronize the other places that are new or struggling, but not for coffee.  And there is a Starbucks of course.  My wife has her machine to make espressos.

(https://i.imgur.com/M5l7Jb9.png)

I still don't think Starbucks is unusually gouging for profits, no doubt they play off the price elasticity of their product, as they should.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 06, 2022, 09:34:51 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 09:23:18 AM

Costco has their own brand of Columbian, it used to be $10 for a 3 pound can, now it's $13, but still a steal, as good as I've found anywhere.  I use a French press.

Coffee shops are VERY popular around here, the young crowd, I think it's more of a social thing than liking coffee.  We used to go to Cafe Intermezzo that had a ginormous brass coffee machine from Austria but they are crowded all the time so we patronize the other places that are new or struggling, but not for coffee.  And there is a Starbucks of course.  My wife has her machine to make espressos.

(https://i.imgur.com/M5l7Jb9.png)

I still don't think Starbucks is unusually gouging for profits, no doubt they play off the price elasticity of their product, as they should.

The Costco Brand is excellent

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2022, 09:47:16 AM

The only drink that should cost $5.00 is a giant-ass smoothie that you watched them put all the fruit in. 


I'll never understand how bitter bean water became America's favorite drug.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2022, 09:50:35 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2022, 09:47:16 AM

The only drink that should cost $5.00 is a giant-ass smoothie that you watched them put all the fruit in. 


I'll never understand how bitter bean water became America's favorite drug.

They all watched Friends.

Unlike that show, people actually have to LEAVE the coffeeshop and go to WORK.

Or.. do they??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 09:58:24 AM

A lot of our behaviors are "social", meaning it's a thing to do because others do it.  It's also a time waster, most of us have copious free time, and want something to "do" with it, so we patronize coffee shops and bars.  A mixed drink here is anywhere from $7 to $15, I paid $22 for one once at STK.  A beer is $5-9 for basic beer, maybe draft, hopefully, and craft.  OK.

Amazing markup really.

My step son likes going to bars, he's very social, it's pretty fun to tag along with him, but the bar tab quickly gets crazy, more than a nice dinner out.

A nice dinner out is pricey of course but no dishes, good food I can't make at home, and it's a 2 hour plus experience.  My wife noted that a pleasure she would like if we were rich would be our own chef who would prepare dinner for us 3-4 times a week.  I kinda like getting out of the house some.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2022, 10:00:34 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2022, 09:50:35 AM

They all watched Friends.

Unlike that show, people actually have to LEAVE the coffeeshop and go to WORK.

Or.. do they??

For the smart, lazy ones, they're steaming themselves at the coffee shop and raking the money in.  All they have to do is be hot or crazy.  If they're both, then they're rich from not working.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2022, 10:01:56 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 09:58:24 AM

A lot of our behaviors are "social", meaning it's a thing to do because others do it. 

This is the worst reason to do anything, ever.  It virtually guarantees stress and/or boredom and/or depression and/or anger, etc.  
Probably why they need that bitter bean drug every morning just to function.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 10:02:53 AM

Humans are social animals obviously.  I also think modern life can be boring for many,  they want something to do.  Look at how much TV we watch in a day on average.

Or spend time posting here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2022, 10:05:47 AM

Right, but if people went out and did what they wanted to do, they'd find like-minded people and enjoy themselves more.  I'm just afraid many people don't do that and just go to the bar or whatever - they just fall in line with what's popular or trending.  

Be a person, not a sheep.  Right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 10:13:06 AM

It's easier being a sheep obviously, which is why "we" do such things en masse.  I was musing about this seeing protests, two of them personally, in 2020, most of the protesters were white young folks, it was the thing to do to show you aren't a racist.

They then returned to their $3,000 per month apartments and coffee shops and bars to talk about how woke they are.

What else is one to do with free time?  Read a book?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2022, 10:18:59 AM

Whatever they want to.  
Work is an obligation, which is why they pay you.  Your leisure time shouldn't be.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2022, 10:23:01 AM

You're all going to make fun of me for it, but here I am at 8:20 AM, wanting to go out for something to eat, and my options are arbitrarily limited, due to "breakfast food" being a thing.
Can I get a pizza?  No.

A burger?  No, only at Burger King.

Could I get a nice chicken caesar salad?  No.
Chinese?  No.

Yes, I could make these things, but there's no good reason I can't go out and get them besides the egg lobby and the tradition of "breakfast food." 

It's a minor thing, but it is a thing.  And it's stupid.
We limit our options based on the time of day.  It's idiocy. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 10:24:56 AM

Modern young Americans have excess free time and often a limited imagination.  I am reminded of the show Cheers.  

And Seinfeld, that diner or whatever they constantly patronized.  I don't recall an episode where any of them cooked a meal.  I didn't watch Friends, ever.

How often in a sit com is there a scene with someone preparing a meal?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2022, 10:25:35 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2022, 10:23:01 AM

You're all going to make fun of me for it, but here I am at 8:20 AM, wanting to go out for something to eat, and my options are arbitrarily limited, due to "breakfast food" being a thing.
Can I get a pizza?  No.

A burger?  No, only at Burger King.

Could I get a nice chicken caesar salad?  No.
Chinese?  No.

Yes, I could make these things, but there's no good reason I can't go out and get them besides the egg lobby and the tradition of "breakfast food." 

It's a minor thing, but it is a thing.  And it's stupid.
We limit our options based on the time of day.  It's idiocy. 

If you go to one of those Greek-owned family joints you can anything you want, at any time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 10:29:46 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2022, 10:23:01 AM

You're all going to make fun of me for it, but here I am at 8:20 AM, wanting to go out for something to eat, and my options are arbitrarily limited, due to "breakfast food" being a thing.
Can I get a pizza?  No.

This is a function also of where one lives.  I likely have more options than you, in walking distance, for example.

Shrimp and grits is a big thing here, not really my thing.  But we have a lot of nonegg options, don't tell the egg lobby.

In France, one could likely get a croissant and coffee or perhaps a tartine:

(https://i.imgur.com/rv8Fnqd.png)

Eggs for breakfast are kind of rare there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 06, 2022, 10:32:56 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2022, 10:25:35 AM

If you go to one of those Greek-owned family joints you can anything you want, at any time.

I’m all set to go get a breakfast burrito, but now Greek food sounds good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2022, 10:35:17 AM

I didn't say eggs are the only breakfast food...but the egg industry relies on "breakfast food" being a thing.  
Imagine people eating lunch and dinner food for breakfast every day.  You've cut egg usage down probably 99%+.  All eggs would be used for is ingredients in baking and a throw-in for fried rice.  

Bacon has done a good job worming its way into salads and burgers.  They're at least being proactive.  But if "breakfast food" goes away, the egg industry is fukt.  Hence, they have the largest incentive to keep it going.  Which is why that have lobbyists.  Which is why you guys make fun of me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 10:35:35 AM

I like anything from the Med that I can think of except seiche.

We stayed in Marseille four nights and found a Carrefour nearby that had choice of pastry, coffee, and fresh orange juice for 2 euros, it was a steal.

Carrefour is akin to our Target, means crossroads.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 06, 2022, 10:36:33 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2022, 07:43:14 AM

I have the solution to Starbucks.

I bought a Bunn.

I grew up in a house where people ground and poured their own coffee. It didn’t seem worlds harder than making a tuna sandwich. You just had to buy a little gear. 

Granted, years before my birth, said family members also took a personal finance course that just raked people over how much they spent on coffee. And yet, the habit did not cease. (I don’t drink the stuff, but whatever. It’s important proof that the human body can be taught to consume almost anything)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2022, 10:36:40 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2022, 10:35:17 AM

I didn't say eggs are the only breakfast food...but the egg industry relies on "breakfast food" being a thing. 
Imagine people eating lunch and dinner food for breakfast every day.  You've cut egg usage down probably 99%+.  All eggs would be used for is ingredients in baking and a throw-in for fried rice. 

Bacon has done a good job worming its way into salads and burgers.  They're at least being proactive.  But if "breakfast food" goes away, the egg industry is fukt.  Hence, they have the largest incentive to keep it going.  Which is why that have lobbyists.  Which is why you guys make fun of me.

You think that's why?

shit...


I had potstickers for breakfast this morning.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 06, 2022, 10:42:44 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 02:56:20 PM

I prefer reading personally if a person has a point to make.  I have never listened to any of these podcast things, probably a reflection of my ancienity.

Me too. I know a lot of people learn better through listening or watching video, but I'm a reader. 

It's too easy for me to just tune out of audio. And I don't like video unless it's something like YouTube videos showing me how to do a project or perform a task, where actually seeing it is helpful. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 06, 2022, 10:46:09 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 05, 2022, 03:59:28 PM

this is hilarious. having said that, I hate Starbucks, always have, this is nothing new as their entire business model from day one was to price gouge the sh*t out of their customers. their margins have to be stupid high- they are like the Apple of coffee. both these companies mottos have to be: "hey, how can we rape our customers more" - but alas....like a complete dumbass I still find myself going to Starbucks and also buying Apple products. There just isn't any competition for Starbucks- they have a monopoly and can charge whatever the f**k they want. sure, in your own town or area you might know some great little coffee spots or cafes - but if you travel a lot or drive a lot - where you going to go? Dunkin Donuts is trash. I wish illy's had cafe's all over the US - I'd go there over Starbucks 10/10 when I want espresso & a croissant in a pinch.

Starbucks drip coffee is usually bad. It's over-roasted and completely acrid. I'd believe they do this intentionally in order to get people to buy $5 coffee drinks instead, but I've actually had good drip coffee there on occasion, so it's not even consistent.

Dunkin has been regularly rated highly for their coffee. I'm not a donut guy so I don't regularly go there, but their coffee is good. 

McDonald's coffee is actually excellent. I'll take that over Starbucks any day, and they're everywhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 10:50:48 AM

I drove by a Starbucks every day on the way to work and the line for takeout would be 5-6-7-8 cars deep.  They could have made coffee at home in the same time period.  I never understood that.  We had coffee at work of course fairly cheap and OK.

I had my own coffee maker, which I was not supposed to have apparently.  I'd get written up for a safety violation once a year or so but nothing came of it.  This was after we went to "open offices", which meant in my case the door was removed from the hinges and stored somewhere.  It decreased security of course, and they could have just told us to prop our door open when in the office, but no.

The VPs and directors had completely open offices, but also a small conference room, with a door, and they all set those up as their office and stayed in there nearly all day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 10:51:06 AM

Maybe the coffee lobby is more powerful than the egg lobby.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 06, 2022, 10:54:10 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2022, 10:23:01 AM

You're all going to make fun of me for it, but here I am at 8:20 AM, wanting to go out for something to eat, and my options are arbitrarily limited, due to "breakfast food" being a thing.
Can I get a pizza?  No.

A burger?  No, only at Burger King.

Could I get a nice chicken caesar salad?  No.
Chinese?  No.

Yes, I could make these things, but there's no good reason I can't go out and get them besides the egg lobby and the tradition of "breakfast food." 

It's a minor thing, but it is a thing.  And it's stupid.
We limit our options based on the time of day.  It's idiocy. 

Sure, you could get Chinese. They have their own breakfast foods, like congee. Ya know, the rice lobby being big over there and all :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 11:05:06 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/VCFj1NO.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 11:09:49 AM

Chinese and pizza places near me open at 10 or 11.

https://www.tastychina.net/home22.html

I need to try this place sometime, it's walkable.  And tasty.

(https://i.imgur.com/9o6wbOg.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2022, 11:11:07 AM

847 goes to Greek-owned family restaurant and looks at menu with 500 things on it.

Waitress comes.

W: What would you like to eat?

847: I'll have the Chopped Steak with grilled onions.

W: Very good. How would you like your eggs?

847: What kind of salad dressings do you have?

W: <<rattles off 15 choices>>

847: I'll have a salad with creamy garlic dressing. Croutons too.

W: Home-style or hash browns?

847: French fries.

W: How do you like your toast?

847: I'll have garlic bread.

W: Coffee, juice or tea?

847: Diet Pepsi.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 06, 2022, 11:28:39 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnlm2e3EN78

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on February 06, 2022, 11:31:44 AM

Sonic, a fast food chain predominant through Texas and other places south, has a full menu all day. You can even order breakfast in the evening, or burgers at 8 am. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2022, 11:41:57 AM

Didn't know that.
Yes, 847, I could go to a freakin' Dennys' and get a steak.  But I might not.

I never got into Sonic.  It's ben around where I've lived, both in FL and AZ, but I've probably ever eaten there once or twice.  I don't have anything against it, I just never got into it.  

Anyway, I got a whopper meal at 8:30 and it was fine.  Would've rather had chicken or chinese, but I live in a place held slave to the idea of "breakfast food."  'Murica.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2022, 11:43:11 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 06, 2022, 11:28:39 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnlm2e3EN78

Meg Ryan in French Kiss can get it.

That's what the kids say when someone is hot.

She's aged poorly - gotten a lot of work done.  She looks like Fergie and the chick on Always Sunny birthed a grandma.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2022, 11:44:20 AM

Denny's? They still exist?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 06, 2022, 11:47:42 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 11:09:49 AM

Chinese and pizza places near me open at 10 or 11.

https://www.tastychina.net/home22.html

I need to try this place sometime, it's walkable.  And tasty.

Looks delicious... But their website sucks. 

Quote from: Gigem on February 06, 2022, 11:31:44 AM

Sonic, a fast food chain predominant through Texas and other places south, has a full menu all day. You can even order breakfast in the evening, or burgers at 8 am.

Sonic IMHO is bad, even by fast food standards...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2022, 11:50:57 AM

2 places I avoid are Jack in the Box and Carl's Jr/hardees.  The chicken sandwich at Jack was worse than a chicken patty from the freezer and microwaved.  For real.
And I only hate about a third of the last burger from Carl's Jr I tried.  That was 6-7 years ago.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 06, 2022, 12:06:49 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2022, 10:23:01 AM

You're all going to make fun of me for it, but here I am at 8:20 AM, wanting to go out for something to eat, and my options are arbitrarily limited, due to "breakfast food" being a thing.
Can I get a pizza?  No.

A burger?  No, only at Burger King.

Could I get a nice chicken caesar salad?  No.
Chinese?  No.

Yes, I could make these things, but there's no good reason I can't go out and get them besides the egg lobby and the tradition of "breakfast food." 

It's a minor thing, but it is a thing.  And it's stupid.
We limit our options based on the time of day.  It's idiocy. 

no 24 hour diners in the area where you can get anything at any time?
perhaps you should open one

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 12:08:45 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2022, 11:44:20 AM

Denny's? They still exist?

I remember when they had a Grand Slam breakfast for $5, but it overall was horrible, and a few still exist.  Long ago I ordered a plate of fried vegetables and seriously they brought me some vegall dripping in grease.  The waiter to his credit said "This is probably not what you wanted."

I once had a chicken sandwich from Hardees that was raw inside, barely cooked, took it back of course.  Didn't go back.

McDs for all the criticism they take at least has some standards.  I will say the Big Mac in France is mostly lettuce, maybe half the beef we get here, and expensive of course.

I also tried one in London once, I could not understand the lady taking my order, and vice versa.

General rule, avoid fast food places, and cheap steak places like Longhorn, avoid Applbies, TGIF, whatever else.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 12:09:23 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 06, 2022, 12:06:49 PM

no 24 hour diners in the area where you can get anything at any time?
perhaps you should open one

Yeah, Waffle House here is 247 of course with full menu.  No pizza though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 06, 2022, 12:11:25 PM

no pizza and no chinese

but Pecans

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2022, 12:29:09 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 12:08:45 PM

I remember when they had a Grand Slam breakfast for $5, but it overall was horrible, and a few still exist.  Long ago I ordered a plate of fried vegetables and seriously they brought me some vegall dripping in grease.  The waiter to his credit said "This is probably not what you wanted."

I once had a chicken sandwich from Hardees that was raw inside, barely cooked, took it back of course.  Didn't go back.

McDs for all the criticism they take at least has some standards.  I will say the Big Mac in France is mostly lettuce, maybe half the beef we get here, and expensive of course.

I also tried one in London once, I could not understand the lady taking my order, and vice versa.

General rule, avoid fast food places, and cheap steak places like Longhorn, avoid Applbies, TGIF, whatever else.

Those cheap places like Longhorn are fine for a burger or chopped steak. We'll hit those places on a road trip for just a little more $$ than fast food.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 12:31:49 PM

When traveling I resort to one of the above perforce.  I'm OK with Crackerbarrel but my wife isn't so much, and they can take a while to dine.

we have Zaxby's around here which is, well, so so.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 12:47:34 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/bswOCSo.jpg)

This is me trying to pitch some.

(https://i.imgur.com/xRm0IE7.jpg)

A buddy of mine from  Houston and really good player and his daughter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 12:48:53 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/X1dwktO.jpg)

I played second a good bit, which was a bit odd but I did OK, mostly because they didn't hit my way much.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 12:50:09 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/vw2Rdug.jpg)

I had only two solid hits all camp, both doubles to right and right center, which felt solid.    My wife said I was really slow on the base paths, which I'm sure is correct.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 12:52:33 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/j54w3YS.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 06, 2022, 12:59:56 PM

Pizza's gotta be the most popular dish in the world so it does seem a little surprising that there's not really a culture of 24-hour pizza joints.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2022, 01:00:31 PM

His '94 and '95 seasons were sick.
Never averaged a strikeout per inning, but you couldn't hit him.  And he was a vacuum on every comebacker. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axkik-8oFTs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axkik-8oFTs)

The best part of the video is the very end.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2022, 01:01:03 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 06, 2022, 12:59:56 PM

Pizza's gotta be the most popular dish in the world so it does seem a little surprising that there's not really a culture of 24-hour pizza joints.

If there was, they'd only serve breakfast pizza in the AM, covered in eggs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 06, 2022, 01:09:00 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2022, 01:01:03 PM

If there was, they'd only serve breakfast pizza in the AM, covered in eggs.

Probably.

But, if they have the ingredients to make a real pizza, you might be able to convince them to do so, with a flash of a little extra cash.

There's a local diner chain here in Central Texas called Jim's that serves their entire menu 24 hours, and that includes a regular old cheese or pepperoni pizza.  So if you're ever in Austin (or San Antonio) we've got you covered.

Edit: They don't have Chinese though.  You're SOL on that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 01:22:09 PM

I would guess hamburgers to be the most popular dish in the western world, there are a lot of Chinese that get a vote globally.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 06, 2022, 03:13:26 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/273416447_7571436662870091_1738118844188631000_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=xKFTGj1fX2AAX-FILiZ&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9nIK44_xnDkBAdRh48ZwKxned4DVD-ac5HO7j_QxUkIQ&oe=6205354E)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 06, 2022, 05:27:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 08:16:40 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/uZhZLNt.png)

Generally regarded as the most brilliant American physicist ever.

Einstein became a US citizen. Does he count? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 06, 2022, 05:34:55 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 06, 2022, 09:34:51 AM

The Costco Brand is excellent

I've found almost everything from Costco brands that I've ever bought are pretty damn high quality. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 06, 2022, 05:35:20 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 06, 2022, 03:13:26 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/273416447_7571436662870091_1738118844188631000_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=xKFTGj1fX2AAX-FILiZ&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9nIK44_xnDkBAdRh48ZwKxned4DVD-ac5HO7j_QxUkIQ&oe=6205354E)

:043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 06, 2022, 05:36:10 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 06, 2022, 12:59:56 PM

Pizza's gotta be the most popular dish in the world so it does seem a little surprising that there's not really a culture of 24-hour pizza joints.

this is an awesome point. maybe one of us should start one, pay you royalties for the idea haha.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 06, 2022, 05:38:34 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 06, 2022, 05:36:10 PM

this is an awesome point. maybe one of us should start one, pay you royalties for the idea haha.

Ha!  Go forth with my blessings.  I've done my time in the restaurant business but applaud anyone trying to make a go of it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 06, 2022, 05:39:11 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2022, 01:01:03 PM

If there was, they'd only serve breakfast pizza in the AM, covered in eggs.

there's an excellent pizza place in the eastern market in Detroit called Supino's that has a pizza with prosciutto and cracked egg that is phenomenal. the prosciutto gets all crisp and the egg cooks over easy - basically a bacon & eggs pizza - could eat that for breakfast all freaking day. might be the best pizza they have.

(https://external-preview.redd.it/aev_IHW4KnuTl39h26fsr0C3utBWjrU9u_ZEcYSAFPg.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=81b97a00cb1d7773425258d9bc0201e692f18675)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 06, 2022, 05:52:09 PM

Looks good to me!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 06, 2022, 07:09:12 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 06, 2022, 05:39:11 PM

there's an excellent pizza place in the eastern market in Detroit called Supino's that has a pizza with prosciutto and cracked egg that is phenomenal. the prosciutto gets all crisp and the egg cooks over easy - basically a bacon & eggs pizza - could eat that for breakfast all freaking day. might be the best pizza they have.

(https://external-preview.redd.it/aev_IHW4KnuTl39h26fsr0C3utBWjrU9u_ZEcYSAFPg.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=81b97a00cb1d7773425258d9bc0201e692f18675)

Had it!  The Bomb. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2022, 10:05:57 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 06, 2022, 05:39:11 PM

there's an excellent pizza place in the eastern market in Detroit called Supino's that has a pizza with prosciutto and cracked egg that is phenomenal. the prosciutto gets all crisp and the egg cooks over easy - basically a bacon & eggs pizza - could eat that for breakfast all freaking day. might be the best pizza they have.

(https://external-preview.redd.it/aev_IHW4KnuTl39h26fsr0C3utBWjrU9u_ZEcYSAFPg.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=81b97a00cb1d7773425258d9bc0201e692f18675)

EGGS?!?!?


You're all in on it !!!!!!!   :96:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 06, 2022, 10:11:19 PM

Had a breakfast burrito today with some fluffy scrambled eggs mixed in. Highly scrumptious and would purchase again. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 06, 2022, 10:54:23 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 06, 2022, 10:11:19 PM

Had a breakfast burrito today with some fluffy scrambled eggs mixed in. Highly scrumptious and would purchase again.

I Actually make those at home- especially when I have company.  Good way to feed a larger group- lay out the ingredients and they can make their own.  Eggs, crumbled sausage, bacon, cheese, guacamole, hot sauce, veggies, rice, pico, sir cream, etc.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 07, 2022, 12:10:18 AM

Breakfast tacos are a staple around here.

Scrambled eggs and chorizo are my favorite of course.  But bacon and egg, bacon cheese and egg, potato egg and cheese, eggs with carne guisada, are all common.  And then, there's the BBQ chopped beef breakfast taco, which is a meal by itself.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 07, 2022, 07:26:26 AM

I love eating breakfast in Europe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 07, 2022, 08:03:44 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 07, 2022, 07:26:26 AM

I love eating breakfast in Europe.

I still dream of the free breakfast setup they had in Paris. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 07, 2022, 08:14:09 AM

TANSTAAFL, or B.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 07, 2022, 08:30:01 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 07, 2022, 07:26:26 AM

I love eating breakfast in Europe.

I love eating in Europe period lol. Food is just soooooo much better, it's not even funny.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 07, 2022, 08:33:34 AM

I wouldn't say it's inherently better in Europe, it's just that in the US we have so many chain restaurants in comparison that get most of the business.  One can find pretty good dining here by avoiding chains, and one advantage we have here is diversity, I didn't find many "Mexican" and "Asian" restaurants in France, a few, but not like here.

We have a couple Indian places near us that are excellent.  (England of course has them.)

In France, it's pretty much French food all the time.  Ha.

We just had a Persian place open up the street that is supposed to be good, it's their fifth location I think.  Gonna try it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 07, 2022, 08:46:51 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 07, 2022, 08:33:34 AM

I wouldn't say it's inherently better in Europe, it's just that in the US we have so many chain restaurants in comparison that get most of the business.  One can find pretty good dining here by avoiding chains, and one advantage we have here is diversity, I didn't find many "Mexican" and "Asian" restaurants in France, a few, but not like here.

We have a couple Indian places near us that are excellent.  (England of course has them.)

In France, it's pretty much French food all the time.  Ha.

We just had a Persian place open up the street that is supposed to be good, it's their fifth location I think.  Gonna try it.

Disagree. I think it's just inherently better. The regions where certain foods are made are protected. Their versions of the FDA are much stricter in terms of what chemicals, preservatives, pesticides, and other crap they allow into their food. You can get better food at train stations and gas stations in Italy than you can in 95% of American restaurants. So....yeah, not buying this. We barely even have train stations here, but try eating at a gas station in America. Lol.

Food is just better over there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 07, 2022, 08:49:38 AM

It's a lot easier to find very good food, I agree, but with a bit of effort, one can find good stuff here as well, and a lot more diversity.

Americans patronize chains, which almost without exception are mediocre.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 07, 2022, 09:29:37 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 07, 2022, 12:10:18 AM

Breakfast tacos are a staple around here.

Scrambled eggs and chorizo are my favorite of course.  But bacon and egg, bacon cheese and egg, potato egg and cheese, eggs with carne guisada, are all common.  And then, there's the BBQ chopped beef breakfast taco, which is a meal by itself.

years ago on the old board perhaps even before the foodie thread one of you denizens of the nether regions where barking about huevos rancheros.Dayum when Cindy makes the whole dish we simply don't bake the eggs in as the dish is big enough for 2 maybe 3 meals .For just the 2 of us now we softly fry sunny side up the eggs as we are going.Great Dish,let it be said you are good for something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 07, 2022, 09:35:18 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 07, 2022, 08:30:01 AM

I love eating in Europe period lol. Food is just soooooo much better, it's not even funny.

That's a sweeping generalization.We have alot more farm land and perhaps you don't have fresh produce sold roadside  we do up here and it's a game changer. Recipes brought over have been altered/curtailed to either tastes,availibility or experimentation.It's given you enough sustenance to tap out brazillian posts since 2004 😁

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 07, 2022, 09:55:35 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 07, 2022, 09:29:37 AM

years ago on the old board perhaps even before the foodie thread one of you denizens of the nether regions where barking about huevos rancheros.Dayum when Cindy makes the whole dish we simply don't bake the eggs in as the dish is big enough for 2 maybe 3 meals .For just the 2 of us now we softly fry sunny side up the eggs as we are going.Great Dish,let it be said you are good for something.

Ha, thanks!

Yeah huevos rancheros are prevalent down here as well, one of my faves.

Chilaquiles and migas are other common breakfast foods inspired from south of the border.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 07, 2022, 10:03:12 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 07, 2022, 09:55:35 AM

Ha, thanks!

Yeah huevos rancheros are prevalent down here as well, one of my faves.

Chilaquiles and migas are other common breakfast foods inspired from south of the border.

Yeah, I can't believe I was in my 30s before I learned that breakfast nachos were a real thing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 07, 2022, 10:17:43 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 07, 2022, 09:55:35 AM

Ha, thanks!

Yeah huevos rancheros are prevalent down here as well, one of my faves.

Chilaquiles and migas are other common breakfast foods inspired from south of the border.

Send me some Czech Cerne from the locals and you automatically get on my Intergalactic Mt Rushmore

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 07, 2022, 10:19:33 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 07, 2022, 09:29:37 AM

years ago on the old board perhaps even before the foodie thread one of you denizens of the nether regions where barking about huevos rancheros.Dayum when Cindy makes the whole dish we simply don't bake the eggs in as the dish is big enough for 2 maybe 3 meals .For just the 2 of us now we softly fry sunny side up the eggs as we are going.Great Dish,let it be said you are good for something.

ouwins.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 07, 2022, 10:28:56 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 06, 2022, 07:09:12 PM

Had it!  The Bomb.

it's one of the best pizza places in the US imo. Or at least it used to be. Last couple times I went, it just wasn't as good, and I have heard from a lot of people that it is now very inconsistent, and that the owner isn't in there running the ship like he used to be. Apparently he went from always there to never there now. And it used to be a tiny little straight pizza operation- but the owner leased the building next door and knocked down the dividing wall and now it's a large full-service restaurant with a bar. Big mistake imo. If you're truly great at one thing- stick to doing that one thing. I think the expansion of the space and menu, the owner not being around as much to run the ship, and then them opening another location in Detroit has lead to a steady decline. Sad to see it happen, because it used to be my favorite pizza place. The dough they have there is like a hybrid between NY style and Neapolitan. Probably the best dough of any pizza I've ever had anywhere. Also: makes no sense to me that they open another location in Detroit. If you're going to expand, go to Ann Arbor or to one of the suburbs of Detroit. Seems like a waste of another location to me.

My favorite pizza place is probably a place in Brooklyn called Lucali's. They've been around for like 15 years, and it's still a tiny little place - they haven't expanded the size of the restaurant- and the menu is still pretty much the same and pretty small. Basically just pizza, calzones, salads, and meatballs. The guys cousin opened another location in Miami Beach - and I've been to both a lot, but the one in Miami is not nearly as good as the original in Brooklyn. If any of you are ever in NYC - that's the pizza place to go to imo if you can make it out to Brooklyn. I know most people that visit NYC probably just stay in Manhattan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 07, 2022, 10:31:10 AM

No thanks, I already know where to go in NY to get the best local slices.

(https://i.imgur.com/Jer4pSY.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 07, 2022, 11:12:40 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 07, 2022, 10:31:10 AM

No thanks, I already know where to go in NY to get the best local slices.

(https://i.imgur.com/Jer4pSY.png)

Ha! The Office is the best sitcom that's ever been on basic free network tv (ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox). Miss that show like crazy on Netflix. Comcast are f'ing aholes for pulling it from Netflix just so they can put it on their shitty streaming service Peacock. I refuse to pay for that garbage. Already have enough streaming crap...YouTubeTV, AppleTV+, HBOMax, Hulu, & Netflix. Don't need another one.

As for Sbarro's - man that place is expensive and it's junk. I don't get how they stay in business. I know people love pizza. But I never see anyone at any Sbarro at any airport or mall food court. And the food is gross AND expensive. Doesn't make sense. A slice of pizza there has to be like $5-6. 

As for that place Lucali - they don't do the slice thing. It's a "high end" pizza place - the guy uses only San Marzano tomato cans to make his sauce, the best imported extra virgin olive oil, freshest organic produce, his mozzarella cheese is top notch, and he also imports only the highest quality parmigiano-reggiano cheese and he puts that on every pizza as well. All that ish is expensive af - which is why the prices are - but all that stuff definitely makes a big difference. You can order to go pretty easily, but the lines and wait times to get in the place can be a sonofabitch.

I don't get the whole "slice" thing with NY. I feel like most of the slice places are gross. Everyone always on and on about Joe's Pizza and all the famous people go there and there's pics of them all on the wall- and every time I've been to any Joe's Pizza the pizza has been mediocre or has even sucked if you ask me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on February 07, 2022, 12:44:25 PM

Original Ray's,  Ray's Original, just Ray's,  Ray's. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 07, 2022, 12:50:55 PM

Little Rey (https://www.littlerey.com/)

This place is near us and always packed, it's amazing.  It's certainly solid, in my experience, but not uber exceptional.

(https://i.imgur.com/GIzalXS.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 07, 2022, 12:51:21 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 07, 2022, 11:12:40 AM

Ha! The Office is the best sitcom that's ever been on basic free network tv (ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox)

You need to get out of the habit of prattling tripe - that'd be Two and a Half Men

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 07, 2022, 12:52:27 PM

Little-Rey-Menu_1.10.22.pdf (squarespace.com) (https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5c9b9af54d871144ca923071/t/61dc456a528ab414a2b07fb3/1641825642727/Little-Rey-Menu_1.10.22.pdf)

They do have breakfast tacos with no eggs at least.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 07, 2022, 12:53:40 PM

Who the hell wants that? maybe OAM

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 07, 2022, 01:19:55 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 07, 2022, 09:29:37 AM

years ago on the old board perhaps even before the foodie thread one of you denizens of the nether regions where barking about huevos rancheros.Dayum when Cindy makes the whole dish we simply don't bake the eggs in as the dish is big enough for 2 maybe 3 meals .For just the 2 of us now we softly fry sunny side up the eggs as we are going.Great Dish,let it be said you are good for something.

I might suggest a smaller dish
ya know, about the size for two people

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 07, 2022, 01:22:11 PM

There are all kinds of legitimate breakfast tacos that don't have eggs.  

But those don't seem to be among them, since they mention "migas" as one of the base ingredients, and then an array of options you can add to them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 07, 2022, 01:29:07 PM

I thought "a miga" was a lady friend.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 07, 2022, 02:39:04 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 07, 2022, 12:51:21 PM

You need to get out of the habit of prattling tripe - that'd be Two and a Half Men

Two and a half men sucks. In my opinion. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 07, 2022, 03:56:48 PM

Decided to replace the terrible showerhead in this house (a rental, sadly, or I'd have done it long ago) with something nicer. So I bought one off Amazon last Thursday, it arrived same-day, and I was able to surprise my wife by having it installed before she got home from work. She loved it. 

This morning, she showered and went to work. I went into the shower, tried to adjust the angle, and it came off in my hand. Realized that a plastic retaining ring that held it on to the ball joint that it rotates around for adjustment broke. Finished my shower with the high pressure spray coming out of the ball joint. 

Oddly, I noticed at Costco last Friday that there was a Kohler one on sale. ~3x the price of what I bought from Amazon. But at least I trust the brand. And it's one of those fancy ones with both the rain head and the wand. 

So I ran over there during lunch, and the crisis was averted. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 07, 2022, 03:58:25 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 07, 2022, 03:56:48 PM

Decided to replace the terrible showerhead in this house (a rental, sadly, or I'd have done it long ago) with something nicer. So I bought one off Amazon last Thursday, it arrived same-day, and I was able to surprise my wife by having it installed before she got home from work. She loved it.

This morning, she showered and went to work. I went into the shower, tried to adjust the angle, and it came off in my hand. Realized that a plastic retaining ring that held it on to the ball joint that it rotates around for adjustment broke. Finished my shower with the high pressure spray coming out of the ball joint.

Oddly, I noticed at Costco last Friday that there was a Kohler one on sale. ~3x the price of what I bought from Amazon. But at least I trust the brand. And it's one of those fancy ones with both the rain head and the wand.

So I ran over there during lunch, and the crisis was averted.

Another good thing about Costco is that you can return pretty much anything, pretty much any time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 07, 2022, 04:00:31 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 07, 2022, 03:58:25 PM

Another good thing about Costco is that you can return pretty much anything, pretty much any time.

Yep. They had to adjust the policy for electronics due to abuse, because people would bring in a 4 year old TV or laptop, return it for original purchase price, and then get a brand new one with much better specs... 

I'm considering buying a Kirkland Signature putter... If I use it and don't like it, I can return it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 07, 2022, 04:04:26 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 07, 2022, 04:00:31 PM

Yep. They had to adjust the policy for electronics due to abuse, because people would bring in a 4 year old TV or laptop, return it for original purchase price, and then get a brand new one with much better specs...

I'm considering buying a Kirkland Signature putter... If I use it and don't like it, I can return it.

Yup, electronics are different.

But my i s c & a aggie wife buys all of our vacuums there.  Because invariably they fail within a year or two, and she just takes it back and gets a new one every time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 07, 2022, 04:45:01 PM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YvT_gqs5ETk

Will Costco sell me this?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 07, 2022, 05:04:09 PM

Costco is awesome, I own some of their stock, probably 0.0000000000000001%.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 07, 2022, 05:56:24 PM

We are ditching Sam's for Costco this weekend. I like the crab legs, lobster and beef better. 

Like, WAY better.

Better store brand stuff too, for sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 07, 2022, 06:12:47 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 07, 2022, 05:56:24 PM

We are ditching Sam's for Costco this weekend. I like the crab legs, lobster and beef better.

Like, WAY better.

Better store brand stuff too, for sure.

It is insane how good the Costco stuff is including their meats, fish, the bakery and even some of their pre-cooked meals!

I don’t know if it’s the worst thing that ever happened to me or the best, but when I moved from Michigan to Florida I went from having a Costco 3 miles away or I probably spent $400 every two weeks to having the nearest one be 35 minutes south of me in Palm Beach. I rarely go there now. Only when I need large quantities of steaks or fish for company or a great pumpkin pie for the holidays.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 07, 2022, 06:15:01 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 07, 2022, 01:19:55 PM

I might suggest a smaller dish
ya know, about the size for two people

Stick to runza's Mrs T Pierogis and Bud 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 07, 2022, 06:18:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 07, 2022, 05:56:24 PM

We are ditching Sam's for Costco this weekend. I like the crab legs, lobster and beef better.

Like, WAY better.

Better store brand stuff too, for sure.

Sam's is awful compared to Costco imo. Costco is the shit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 07, 2022, 06:20:38 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 07, 2022, 03:56:48 PM

Decided to replace the terrible showerhead in this house (a rental, sadly, or I'd have done it long ago) with something nicer. So I bought one off Amazon last Thursday, it arrived same-day, and I was able to surprise my wife by having it installed before she got home from work. She loved it.

This morning, she showered and went to work. I went into the shower, tried to adjust the angle, and it came off in my hand. Realized that a plastic retaining ring that held it on to the ball joint that it rotates around for adjustment broke. Finished my shower with the high pressure spray coming out of the ball joint.

Oddly, I noticed at Costco last Friday that there was a Kohler one on sale. ~3x the price of what I bought from Amazon. But at least I trust the brand. And it's one of those fancy ones with both the rain head and the wand.

So I ran over there during lunch, and the crisis was averted.

Kohler is garbage for what they charge if you ask me. 

Better off going Hansgrohe for shower heads, hand showers, faucets, and tub fillers vs Kohler. And better off going with Toto toilets over Kohler. Not only are Hansgrohe/Toto better products they look much nicer imo. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 07, 2022, 06:28:36 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 07, 2022, 04:45:01 PM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YvT_gqs5ETk

Will Costco sell me this?

that's probably the funniest sketch SNL has had in a decade. And I didn't really laugh one time, more like smirked once or twice. Kinda sad how far that show has fallen. The writing is trash and the cast is beyond weak.

I remember when people like Phil Hartman, Chris Farley, Adam Sandler, Chris Rock, and Norm McDonald were on. Now? Yeeeesh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 07, 2022, 06:30:58 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 07, 2022, 06:28:36 PM

I remember when people like Phil Hartman, Chris Farley, Adam Sandler, Chris Rock, and Norm McDonald were on. Now? Yeeeesh.

And everyone said those casts were crap compared to the ones that came before them.

Same as it ever was.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 07, 2022, 06:32:03 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 07, 2022, 06:15:01 PM

Stick to runza's Mrs T Pierogis and Bud

first thing I tried in the new air fryer!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 07, 2022, 06:32:50 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 07, 2022, 06:30:58 PM

And everyone said those casts were crap compared to the ones that came before them.

Same as it ever was.

the originals were obviously the best by a wide margin

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 07, 2022, 06:42:04 PM

It's nice. I've got 5-6 Costcos within a 10 mi radius... At least. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 07, 2022, 06:51:13 PM

110 miles for me

but, no traffic

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 07, 2022, 06:54:10 PM

I've got a couple within 10 miles.  Aside from vacuum cleaners, we get most of our beef and pork there, and a lot of our poultry when we're doing a good job of planning ahead.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 07, 2022, 07:53:28 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 07, 2022, 06:42:04 PM

It's nice. I've got 5-6 Costcos within a 10 mi radius... At least.

No freakin' way, sure you're not thinking of StarBucks/McDonalds? The closest one to me is like 15 miles,not sure where the next closest is

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 07, 2022, 08:53:30 PM

SNL can still put some winners on air

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je1NIf8GeeY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 07, 2022, 09:28:46 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on February 07, 2022, 08:53:30 PM

SNL can still put some winners on air

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je1NIf8GeeY

Broken clock is right twice a day. I think that's more the power and aura of Bill Burr than SNL cast or writers. Bill Burr is one of the funniest people ever to live imo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 07, 2022, 10:28:49 PM

I think the secret of SNL is that it's always uneven. But as we move past it, we only keep watching the good stuff, so it holds.

I don't really interact with it much now. Seems to have a few moments. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 07, 2022, 10:33:50 PM

Random thing that happened because of Badge and the algorithm. 

We were talking about athletic finances on here, and he posted a link to a book about UW's rise from a respectable author. I clicked it, clicked away. But when I logged on, it kept saying "Used for $5." So when I wanted to buy something and needed some mundane filler for free shipping, went ahead and got that. Just arrived today. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 04:15:23 AM

I have four Costcos here, one is a wholesale place, three are within ten miles, the wholesale place is probably closer to 20.  My wife went there once, she said everything is clearly meant for retail, smaller packages shrink wrapped into large blocks for individual sale.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 08, 2022, 04:41:33 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 07, 2022, 10:28:49 PM

I think the secret of SNL is that it's always uneven. But as we move past it, we only keep watching the good stuff, so it holds.

I don't really interact with it much now. Seems to have a few moments.

Yeah, and if you watch an entire episode now, so much of the jokes were topical to that given month and it's nearly unwatchable.  No matter the cast.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 08, 2022, 05:46:55 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 07, 2022, 10:28:49 PM

I think the secret of SNL is that it's always uneven. But as we move past it, we only keep watching the good stuff, so it holds.

I don't really interact with it much now. Seems to have a few moments.

this is definitely true imo...it's a sketch comedy show on network tv and it's been on forever. They are going to have more duds than stuff that lands. Way more. The only sketch comedy show that I've ever seen bat .1000 is Chappelle's Show - but it was only on for 2 seasons. It would've gone dull after 40 seasons...anything would. SNL probably should be canceled, it's run it's course and there's no shame in retiring it. The best shows are the ones that know when it's time to walk away.

All what you say above is true, BUT the performers matter a lot- and they can take so-so or even suspect material and make it work. Will Ferrell was great at this. Anything Eddie Murphy was in was incredible because he was just such a remarkable performer. SNL just has really shitty cast members and even shittier writers right now, and honestly they have for awhile now. Everything is low hanging fruit, not even remotely clever writing, zero edge, and the cast sucks. It's literally unwatchable.

That last really good cast members they had were Jason Sudekis, Bill Hader, Kristen Wiig, and Andy Samberg back in like 2012-2013. That's basically a decade ago. It's been god awful for almost 10 years now. There are people on YouTube making way funnier skits/sketches right now than SNL has had in basically a decade.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 05:59:42 AM

I really did not know SNL was still on TV.  Next you'll tell me Lawrence Welk is still on.

Hee Haw?

Laugh In?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 08, 2022, 07:00:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 05:59:42 AM

I really did not know SNL was still on TV.  Next you'll tell me Lawrence Welk is still on.

Hee Haw?

Laugh In?

yeah, I believe they are on season 47 or 48 now. they should probably just kill it and call it quits after this season.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 07:22:51 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 07, 2022, 06:12:47 PM

It is insane how good the Costco stuff is including their meats, fish, the bakery and even some of their pre-cooked meals!

I don’t know if it’s the worst thing that ever happened to me or the best, but when I moved from Michigan to Florida I went from having a Costco 3 miles away or I probably spent $400 every two weeks to having the nearest one be 35 minutes south of me in Palm Beach. I rarely go there now. Only when I need large quantities of steaks or fish for company or a great pumpkin pie for the holidays. 

The one on PGA?

We have the same deal. A few miles away before and now 40 minutes to Costco or 15 to Sam's. After one year of Sam's, I'm ready to drive a bit more. And, they way this area is growing, we'll have one down the street very soon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 07:36:43 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 07:22:51 AM

The one on PGA?

We have the same deal. A few miles away before and now 40 minutes to Costco or 15 to Sam's. After one year of Sam's, I'm ready to drive a bit more. And, they way this area is growing, we'll have one down the street very soon.

Yep- that’s the closest one.   Supposedly they are building one in Palm City- within 10 minutes- but the locals are fighting it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 07:53:35 AM

I have quite a few friends who live just South from there, in Palm Beach Gardens. Nice area, but man.. the traffic sucks. Even off-season. Speaking of season... I wish they would go back already.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 07:57:32 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 07:53:35 AM

I have quite a few friends who live just South from there, in Palm Beach Gardens. Nice area, but man.. the traffic sucks. Even off-season. Speaking of season... I wish they would go back already.

Me too!   Rrrggghh.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 08:20:11 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 07:57:32 AM

Me too!  Rrrggghh. 

I called to make a reservation at our favorite Italian place yesterday.

Our reservation is on March 4 at 4:15 PM. That is the soonest they had on a Friday or Saturday. If I wanted to wait for an opening after 6PM, we're getting to April.

GTFOOH already.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 08:31:09 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 08:20:11 AM

I called to make a reservation at our favorite Italian place yesterday.

Our reservation is on March 4 at 4:15 PM. That is the soonest they had on a Friday or Saturday. If I wanted to wait for an opening after 6PM, we're getting to April.

GTFOOH already.

It is like that over here too. There’s a great little restaurant less than a mile from my house, right where I keep my boat docked. Since I moved here in 2016 you could walk in there at any time and get a seat. Great seafood and great hors d’oeuvres and right on the water.

now if you go there at lunch any day or Friday evening or Saturday day evening it’s up to an hour to a two hour wait.

I live within a few miles of the Stuart Airport. It’s a nice little airport and I have actually flown out of it several times on a private plane for in-state business trips. When I moved here you would see planes taking off and landing every 20 to 30 minutes and they were small planes.

now it is every 2 to 3 minutes including deep into the evening we’re planes are landing and they are no longer prop planes but rather sizable private jets for 20 or 30 passengers. It is insane

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 08, 2022, 08:54:00 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEEYbXVCoT0

One of the all time greats on SNL.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 08, 2022, 08:57:07 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 08, 2022, 08:54:00 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEEYbXVCoT0

One of the all time greats on SNL.

agree 10000%. Peyton Manning is a natural. Dude could've been an actor if he wasn't one of the GOAT NFL QBs lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 08:58:15 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 08:31:09 AM

It is like that over here too. There’s a great little restaurant less than a mile from my house, right where I keep my boat docked. Since I moved here in 2016 you could walk in there at any time and get a seat. Great seafood and great hors d’oeuvres and right on the water.

now if you go there at lunch any day or Friday evening or Saturday day evening it’s up to an hour to a two hour wait.

I live within a few miles of the Stuart Airport. It’s a nice little airport and I have actually flown out of it several times on a private plane for in-state business trips. When I moved here you would see planes taking off and landing every 20 to 30 minutes and they were small planes.

now it is every 2 to 3 minutes including deep into the evening we’re planes are landing and they are no longer prop planes but rather sizable private jets for 20 or 30 passengers. It is insane

Have you ever crossed over using the Lake O Waterway system? I've been thinking about doing that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 09:00:47 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 08, 2022, 08:54:00 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEEYbXVCoT0

One of the all time greats on SNL.

😂😂😂😂.   Had forgotten that.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 08, 2022, 09:01:53 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 07:36:43 AM

Yep- that’s the closest one.  Supposedly they are building one in Palm City- within 10 minutes- but the locals are fighting it. 

anything north of palm beach county and the assholes fight everything. one of the counties, forget if it was St. Lucie or Indian River- tried suing Brightline/Virgin Trains USA for years in federal court to try to block the high speed rail extension from west palm to orlando. they failed in court time after time and kept losing all their appeals too. now the f**king idiot assholes are trying to get a station built. hopefully brightline/virgin tell them to f**k off, and I think they have. there's really no reason to build a station there- it won't be cost effective - not enough people that would actually use it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 09:02:59 AM

We have here popular restaurants and ones that are struggling, and to me the differences in food quality and price are, well, none, and maybe even reversed.  A few of the former require a credit card to make a reservation, which will be weeks out often as not.  We still haven't been to Gunshow, just too many other options.

A lot of this is the celebrity of a few chefs, and a lot of it is whether they make a local magazine's list, and of course then there is the egg lobby.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 09:05:09 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 08:58:15 AM

Have you ever crossed over using the Lake O Waterway system? I've been thinking about doing that.

Yes!  Great trip!  You have to go through a series of locks, which is easy, and kind of cool.

so my brother who lives in Cape Coral took the canals to the resort on Lake Okeechobee. Took him about four hours. I drove there and met him for lunch. We then got into his boat and took the canals eastward towards my marina and left my car in Okeechobee. Spent the night at my house and in the morning took the approximately 3 1/2 hour boat ride back to Okeechobee. Had lunch and got in my car and drove home and he got in his boat with his wife and went back to his house. 

very scenic and peaceful trip. Not much in the way of other boats. Lots of wildlife including gators and birds of every kind.

Pack a cooler full of beverages and snacks and do it. It’s fantastic

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 08, 2022, 09:05:26 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 07:53:35 AM

I have quite a few friends who live just South from there, in Palm Beach Gardens. Nice area, but man.. the traffic sucks. Even off-season. Speaking of season... I wish they would go back already.

Ha! Palm Beach Gardens is a cake walk! Further south you go, the traffic just gets progressively worse. Anything north of Boca is a cake walk in my mind lol. Boca is god awful, then Pompano is even worse, then Ft Lauderdale is bonkers, and then once you get near Miami it's just a complete and utter shitshow. 

South Florida has to have the worst highway traffic in the country or among the very tops. It's brutal. It's especially bad right now because of all the god damn snowbirds from Canada, Northeast, and Midwest who just won't f**king leave lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 09:07:12 AM

Also- if you like fishing for a trophy bass bring a couple rods and some gear.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 08, 2022, 09:10:48 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 08:31:09 AM

It is like that over here too. There’s a great little restaurant less than a mile from my house, right where I keep my boat docked. Since I moved here in 2016 you could walk in there at any time and get a seat. Great seafood and great hors d’oeuvres and right on the water.

now if you go there at lunch any day or Friday evening or Saturday day evening it’s up to an hour to a two hour wait.

I live within a few miles of the Stuart Airport. It’s a nice little airport and I have actually flown out of it several times on a private plane for in-state business trips. When I moved here you would see planes taking off and landing every 20 to 30 minutes and they were small planes.

now it is every 2 to 3 minutes including deep into the evening we’re planes are landing and they are no longer prop planes but rather sizable private jets for 20 or 30 passengers. It is insane

Stuart/Hobe Sound is super nice. Not far from Palm Beach, and way more slow paced, relaxed. Probably furthest north I'd ever go. Anything past that is just too damn far from civilization. They are great little towns/cities.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 09:18:46 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 09:05:09 AM

Yes!  Great trip!  You have to go through a series of locks, which is easy, and kind of cool.

so my brother who lives in Cape Coral took the canals to the resort on Lake Okeechobee. Took him about four hours. I drove there and met him for lunch. We then got into his boat and took the canals eastward towards my marina and left my car in Okeechobee. Spent the night at my house and in the morning took the approximately 3 1/2 hour boat ride back to Okeechobee. Had lunch and got in my car and drove home and he got in his boat with his wife and went back to his house. 

very scenic and peaceful trip. Not much in the way of other boats. Lots of wildlife including gators and birds of every kind.

Pack a cooler full of beverages and snacks and do it. It’s fantastic

Is that the resort with the marina? I think it's in Clewiston?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 09:20:17 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 08, 2022, 09:05:26 AM

Ha! Palm Beach Gardens is a cake walk! Further south you go, the traffic just gets progressively worse. Anything north of Boca is a cake walk in my mind lol. Boca is god awful, then Pompano is even worse, then Ft Lauderdale is bonkers, and then once you get near Miami it's just a complete and utter shitshow.

South Florida has to have the worst highway traffic in the country or among the very tops. It's brutal. It's especially bad right now because of all the god damn snowbirds from Canada, Northeast, and Midwest who just won't f**king leave lol.

A couple more months and they will be gone.

Worst traffic I have ever been in is Honolulu and it's not close.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 09:20:41 AM

I think I'll move to Austin instead.

Anyone know much about Vancouver, Canada?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 09:21:45 AM

It's a pretty place. One of the prettiest I've been to. Are you going?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 09:23:46 AM

I expected more traffic in ATL than exists on the side streets.  I think most of the time you make better time driving down Peachtree and catching lights than sitting on the interstate, which clogs up most of the day.  It's the sole N/S freeway in town.

I found this years ago in LA which has a nice grid of nonfreeway streets, I often would do far better staying off the freeways.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 08, 2022, 09:24:17 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 09:20:41 AM

I think I'll move to Austin instead.

Anyone know much about Vancouver, Canada?

all I've heard is that they had the most insane single-family home prices in North America - and that was before the silliness that COVID caused with home prices. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 09:24:30 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 09:21:45 AM

It's a pretty place. One of the prettiest I've been to. Are you going?

My daughter is moving from C-bus to Vancouver soonish, for work.  Her company is opening a new office there and she was tapped to go.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 08, 2022, 09:34:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 05:59:42 AM

Hee Haw?

Laugh In?

These two weren't bad at all,Artey Johnson was great as the dirty old man or the German Soldier
https://youtu.be/PGRHy7DGbDM

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 08, 2022, 09:35:33 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 09:24:30 AM

My daughter is moving from C-bus to Vancouver soonish, for work.  Her company is opening a new office there and she was tapped to go.

Vancouver - Washington or BC ?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 09:36:09 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 09:18:46 AM

Is that the resort with the marina? I think it's in Clewiston?

Yep.  That’s the one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 09:38:47 AM

https://streamable.com/uh8y48


Video of one of the locks.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 09:41:48 AM

When did you do that trip?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 08, 2022, 09:41:55 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 07:53:35 AM

I have quite a few friends who live just South from there, in Palm Beach Gardens. Nice area, but man.. the traffic sucks. Even off-season. Speaking of season... I wish they would go back already.

That what they said when you,HB & Mdot arrived 😍 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 09:46:31 AM

Vancouver, BC in Canada.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 09:46:38 AM

We are all permanent residents.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 09:48:35 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 09:41:48 AM

When did you do that trip?

May last year.  

several places along the way you can stop for a cocktail if you would like to.  

As we are entering the outer channels of Okeechobee, watched this poor kid standing on a bridge trying to land this huge bass, and somewhere around a 12 foot alligator took it from him with such a violent explosion we all pee down our legs!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 09:50:39 AM

https://www.rolandmartinmarina.com/

If you want to break the trip into two days here’s a good place to catch a great meal and a nice warm bed. 

If you ever do the trip and wanna nice place to stay for the night when you get over here shoot me a PM. You have to be OK with dogs though lol

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 08, 2022, 09:50:44 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 07:53:35 AM

I have quite a few friends who live just South from there, in Palm Beach Gardens. Nice area, but man.. the traffic sucks. Even off-season. Speaking of season... I wish they would go back already.

it's February

give em a couple more months

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 09:52:33 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 09:48:35 AM

May last year. 

several places along the way you can stop for a cocktail if you would like to. 

As we are entering the outer channels of Okeechobee, watched this poor kid standing on a bridge trying to land this huge bass, and somewhere around a 12 foot alligator took it from him with such a violent explosion we all pee down our legs!

That big boat in the lock with you... pretty sure that's my friends Brian and Sue. They did the Great Loop last year and was in that area in May. Not too many boats like that around anymore.

Did you catch the name of it by chance?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 09:54:10 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 09:50:39 AM

https://www.rolandmartinmarina.com/

If you want to break the trip into two days here’s a good place to catch a great meal and a nice warm bed.

If you ever do the trip and wanna nice place to stay for the night when you get over here shoot me a PM. You have to be OK with dogs though lol

Hmmm... might be fun.

Is Lake O pretty well marked?

BTW... I wouldn't be caught dead on a WaveRunner in that water. NFW.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 09:56:15 AM

Didn’t catch the name.  Nice boat though!

When we got to Okeechobee we clung to the southern edge, which is very well marked.  

Yes if you show up here you get your own bedroom with your own bath, a cabana out to the pool and you will drink my beer and bourbon and eat my steaks!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 08, 2022, 09:56:48 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 09:46:38 AM

We are all permanent residents.

They don't care they want you OUT, go ask them.May i suggest a more visitor friendly digs such as Austin? Bwarb will be there shortly and take you on a worldwind tour.And the Chamber of Commerce welcomes Carpetbaggers,so as you have that going for you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 08, 2022, 09:59:13 AM

an Austin suburb works for me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 10:00:02 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/bMM2wjV.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 10:03:02 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 08, 2022, 09:59:13 AM

an Austin suburb works for me

Y'all suck.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 08, 2022, 10:34:00 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 10:03:02 AM

Y'all suck.

I have a cousin who moved to Austin. He raves about it. If I didn’t love south florida so much, I’d probably move to Austin lol. Never been, just seems cool af and everyone I know who has been there or lived there raves about it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 10:39:56 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 08, 2022, 10:34:00 AM

I have a cousin who moved to Austin. He raves about it. If I didn’t love south florida so much, I’d probably move to Austin lol. Never been, just seems cool af and everyone I know who has been there or lived there raves about it.

 No uh uh.  Utee says it is a shithole! 😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 10:42:52 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 10:39:56 AM

No uh uh.  Utee says it is a shithole! 😂

Word.  This place blows.  No coast, no sea, no tasty waves.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 08, 2022, 10:47:48 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 10:42:52 AM

Word.  This place blows.  No coast, no sea, no tasty waves.

Well, I have to live some place warm & nice and if I couldn’t live in Florida I’d 100% be in Texas. 

No way in hell would I ever live in shithole California. Couldn’t pay me to step foot in that dumpster fire run by clowns.

I’m only living in a free state.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 08, 2022, 10:50:33 AM

and I wouldn't move to the desert - when the water dries up Phoenix will be a wasteland

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 08, 2022, 10:55:53 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 10:03:02 AM

Y'all suck.

You chose to live somewhere nice, and now you have to be appropriately punished for it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 11:04:20 AM

Time to move to some remote island in the Caribbean...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 11:05:31 AM

We'll find you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 11:08:59 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 11:05:31 AM

We'll find you.

Creepy stalkers... 


:)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 11:14:40 AM

https://news.yahoo.com/russia-says-six-warships-heading-093509498.html

Quote

Six Russia warships en route to Black Sea for drills

These are landing ships and they're accompanied by an attack sub. The kind of combination of assets used to stage an amphibious assault.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 11:25:51 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 08, 2022, 10:47:48 AM

Well, I have to live some place warm & nice and if I couldn’t live in Florida I’d 100% be in Texas.

No way in hell would I ever live in shithole California. Couldn’t pay me to step foot in that dumpster fire run by clowns.

I’m only living in a free state.

Aww shit.  When betarhoalphadelta reads this word “ shithole” he is going to be triggered for 3 months. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 11:30:47 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 11:25:51 AM

Aww shit.  When betarhoalphadelta reads this word “ shithole” he is going to be triggered for 3 months.

Eh, he's not the only one that thinks it's a silly and immature characterization of any place a person doesn't like.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 11:34:08 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 11:25:51 AM

Aww shit.  When betarhoalphadelta reads this word “ shithole” he is going to be triggered for 3 months.

I think it's an affectionate term for MDot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 08, 2022, 11:50:10 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 11:25:51 AM

Aww shit.  When betarhoalphadelta reads this word “ shithole” he is going to be triggered for 3 months.

He’s just sad he doesn’t have access to all the good bath salts you guys are consuming.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 11:54:05 AM

If I owned Hell and Texas I’d live in Hell and rent out Texas 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 11:56:17 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 11:54:05 AM

If I owned Hell and Texas I’d live in Hell and rent out Texas

That's the spirit!


Thank You For Your Support

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 08, 2022, 12:06:40 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 11:25:51 AM

Aww shit.  When betarhoalphadelta reads this word “ shithole” he is going to be triggered for 3 months.

I just think it's funny... The only functional difference between SoCal and SoFlo as far as I can tell is that I pay a little more in taxes. Traffic, cost of living, etc all seem to be pretty much insane in both places. And pretty much all the COVID restrictions Newsom has tried to enforce since the initial lockdown have resulted in the OC County Sheriff saying "eh, we're not gonna enforce that crap."

Orange County is pretty damn free by California standards. San Diego County would be a wonderful place to live. 

Los Angeles County? Eh. I try to stay out of that shithole. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 08, 2022, 12:26:42 PM

could always move to Fresno 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 08, 2022, 12:43:45 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 08, 2022, 12:26:42 PM

could always move to Fresno

That's like telling @Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) to move to Ocala...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 08, 2022, 01:39:13 PM

I just like messing with betarhoalphadelta :043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 08, 2022, 01:44:45 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 11:14:40 AM

https://news.yahoo.com/russia-says-six-warships-heading-093509498.html

These are landing ships and they're accompanied by an attack sub. The kind of combination of assets used to stage an amphibious assault.

more war machine propaganda bs imo...Russia isn't invading Ukraine. This is overblown BS that US deep-state/intelligence/MIC has been pushing for over a year now. I think the actual President of Ukraine ripping Biden a new one in a private phone call and then publicly asking the US state department stenographers aka the "mainstream media" to STFU about invasion and then AP reporter Matt Lee clowning that little f**king CIA prick Ned Price when he went all Alex Jones - is all she wrote on this topic.

Russia announced months ago they were going to do these military exercises. Every damn country does them. Turkey is a NATO member, and they aren't going to sit back and let them in just so they can invade Ukraine. They'd close down the straits in a NY minute and shut Russia out if they really thought Russia was launching an invasion. Much ado about nothing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 02:00:19 PM

It makes more sense to me if Putin is posturing to see what he can get from the West not to do a thing he wasn't going to do anyway, but likes to appear to be threatening it.  Then he moves slowly to destabilize Ukraine and when no one is looking, some part of it declares independence from Ukraine.

The West can be relied upon to dole out sanctions relief etc. for such negotiations.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 02:23:46 PM

See the thing about posturing is, it must be a credible threat in order to gain any negotiating power.

And if it's a credible threat, then it's a threat that must be responded to with military force.

Forcing NATO into a corner isn't a smart play here, but Putin's not a military genius-- he's a bully and a thug.  So assigning reasonable strategic thinking to him doesn't make any sense.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 08, 2022, 02:26:41 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 02:23:46 PM

See the thing about posturing is, it must be a credible threat in order to gain any negotiating power.

And if it's a credible threat, then it's a threat.

Forcing NATO into a corner isn't a smart play here, but Putin's not a military genius-- he's a bully and a thug.  So assigning reasonable strategic thinking to him doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, the problem with making a credible threat in order to get the other side to give up concessions...

...is what you do if they don't give up any concessions. 

Do you then have to carry through on the threat you never wanted to actually carry through in the first place? Backing NATO into a corner is a smart play if you get them to give you something... If you don't, you've put yourself in a corner because not following through on the threat makes you look weak and you'll never get concessions in the future because they know your threat may not be something you're willing to follow through on. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 02:27:03 PM

To the extent Russia massed forces on the border, it has the appearance of a threat.  Credible?  Maybe, that depends on your intel.

I don't think we have to respond militarily even to a credible threat, in all cases.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 02:29:12 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 08, 2022, 02:26:41 PM

Yeah, the problem with making a credible threat in order to get the other side to give up concessions...

...is what you do if they don't give up any concessions.

Do you then have to carry through on the threat you never wanted to actually carry through in the first place? Backing NATO into a corner is a smart play if you get them to give you something... If you don't, you've put yourself in a corner because not following through on the threat makes you look weak and you'll never get concessions in the future because they know your threat may not be something you're willing to follow through on.

Nope, you just bide your time and chuckle that you really never meant to invade, just as you said.  Was Iran working on nuclear weapons?  They said they weren't, nobody found evidence they were since 2003, but they got concessions.  Either they were lying and are still working on them, or they were telling the truth and got concessions for nothing.

I think they realized a nuclear weapon with no delivery vehicle isn't worth much.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 02:31:58 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 08, 2022, 02:26:41 PM

. If you don't, you've put yourself in a corner because not following through on the threat makes you look weak and you'll never get concessions in the future because they know your threat may not be something you're willing to follow through on.

Which is precisely why many of the NATO countries don't want to back down.  

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 02:27:03 PM

To the extent Russia massed forces on the border, it has the appearance of a threat.  Credible?  Maybe, that depends on your intel.

I don't think we have to respond militarily even to a credible threat, in all cases.

We don't HAVE to do anything, but NATO by its very structure and nature is not an isolationist organization, and it's something the USA has put scores of years of investment into.  It's not easy for the US to dump its NATO allies. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 02:33:04 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 02:31:58 PM

Which is precisely why many of the NATO countries don't want to back down. 

We don't HAVE to do anything, but NATO by its very structure and nature is not an isolationist organization, and it's something the USA has put scores of years of investment into.  It's not easy for the US to dump its NATO allies.

Ukraine is not a member of NATO and Article V doesn't apply.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 02:34:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 02:33:04 PM

Ukraine is not a member of NATO and Article V doesn't apply.

Many of our NATO allies are extremely concerned about a Russian invasion of Ukraine.  Article 5 isn't the ONLY means of action, it's just the compulsory one.

Acting like a Russian invasion of Ukraine isn't a direct threat to NATO is silly.

The discussion of whether or not the USA currently benefits from the NATO alliance, or should still belong in NATO, is something else.  But this particular threat directly involves the US, as long as we're active and willing members of NATO.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 02:39:10 PM

It's a direct threat to Ukraine, it could be an indirect threat to NATO down the road, maybe.

I'm for some aid to Ukraine and no more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 02:48:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 02:39:10 PM

It's a direct threat to Ukraine, it could be an indirect threat to NATO down the road, maybe.

I'm for some aid to Ukraine and no more.

Preventing Russian westward expansion is the primary reason NATO exists.  So, no, it's not an indirect threat to NATO's mission.

Again, like I said, remaining a NATO alliance member might or might not be beneficial to the USA.  Some here have argued that NATO has outlived its usefulness and that's certainly possible.  But that's an entirely different discussion.

As long as the US remains an active member of NATO, then this IS a problem that is right there on our front doorstep.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 07:03:14 PM

I guess I don't see that as the proper function of NATO, maybe I'm too limited.  And preventing a Russian spread west pretty much would mean military conflict, which would be bad.  I do not want US forces on the ground in Ukraine, at all.  And I realize this is not yet our policy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 08, 2022, 07:36:46 PM

Nato can't even keep the peace between UTee and Cincydawg. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 07:52:51 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 07:03:14 PM

 I do not want US forces on the ground in Ukraine, at all.  And I realize this is not yet our policy.

Well I certainly agree with you there, my personal opinion is that I don't want US forces there, either.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 08, 2022, 08:13:10 PM

Team 'Murica:  World Police

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 07:22:50 AM

Then what steps can NATO take beyond threatening sanctions?  We can ship some military gear to Ukraine, which has been done to an extent.  Fundamentally it comes down to how much portions of Ukraine want to be part of Greater Russia, or remain independent.  I don't know the answer to that.  If some portion is really populated with mostly russians, well, off you go.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 07:40:28 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/SpNWm0e.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 07:46:09 AM

Overall, sure, but how about is some bordering regions like the Donbass?

The Sudetenland was in fact mostly German, carved out after WW One.  Poland in 1939 of course was not.

(https://i.imgur.com/yAWAy65.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on February 09, 2022, 07:52:43 AM

I think Putin wants all of Ukraine for Russia as was the case when they were the USSR.  After Ukraine there's Moldova to the West which has a large Russian population.Its starting to feel like a Russian Anschluss.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 07:57:49 AM

I'm sure he wants that, I'm not sure what he's willing to do to achieve that.  I THINK he's going to threaten military action and actually DO stuff that is much more covert.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 08:12:45 AM

"Living in Chicago, you’re going to fear for your safety regardless whether it’s going to work or coming home from the store," the woman, identified as Lena, told the outlet. "You can’t even go to a gas station to get gas or pick your child up without worrying about that. So I just try to stay alert and watch my surroundings while I’m outside."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 09, 2022, 08:13:58 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 08, 2022, 02:26:41 PM

Yeah, the problem with making a credible threat in order to get the other side to give up concessions...

...is what you do if they don't give up any concessions.

Do you then have to carry through on the threat you never wanted to actually carry through in the first place? Backing NATO into a corner is a smart play if you get them to give you something... If you don't, you've put yourself in a corner because not following through on the threat makes you look weak and you'll never get concessions in the future because they know your threat may not be something you're willing to follow through on.

This is a play by Putin knowing who is currently occupying the White House. Ask yourself why he didn't do this while Trump was in office.  Because Putin believed that if he pushed Trump into corner, Trump might come out swinging. IMHO, he feels that Biden is a push over and will cave long before he has to follow through with any of this threats. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 08:30:08 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 09, 2022, 08:13:58 AM

This is a play by Putin knowing who is currently occupying the White House. Ask yourself why he didn't do this while Trump was in office.  Because Putin believed that if he pushed Trump into corner, Trump might come out swinging. IMHO, he feels that Biden is a push over and will cave long before he has to follow through with any of this threats.

Interesting question.

We know #45 was anti-war. So did Putin.

however, #45 was much better at playing chess than #46, who plays checkers.

Putin took Crimea when #44 was in charge.

Only one President since FDR has not gotten the USA into any war.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 09, 2022, 08:37:16 AM

Quote

however, #45 was much better at playing chess than #46, who plays checkers.

LOL. A real grandmaster, that one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 08:38:47 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on February 09, 2022, 08:37:16 AM

LOL. A real grandmaster, that one.

I made 4 statements, and you chose to address the most irrelevant. C'mon man.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 08:39:34 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 07:46:09 AM

Overall, sure, but how about is some bordering regions like the Donbass?

The Sudetenland was in fact mostly German, carved out after WW One.  Poland in 1939 of course was not.

Good point.


(https://i.imgur.com/TELPxUI.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 09, 2022, 08:45:12 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 08:39:34 AM

Good point.


(https://i.imgur.com/TELPxUI.png)

Looks pretty Ukrainian to me, whatever that might mean.

And the idea that Putin wants to invade the Ukraine to "liberate" a handful of folks is laughable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 09, 2022, 08:45:22 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 08:38:47 AM

I made 4 statements, and you chose to address the most irrelevant. C'mon man.

Well, the beliefs that Ukraine and Russia had good solid relations and no violence and this wasn't ramping up while Trump was president are all false. Biden also hasn't started any new wars, and actually took dramatic steps to end a war and greatly reduce violence. I'm hopeful there will be enough anti-war sentiment from both parties to keep them from starting a new one. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 09:01:31 AM

Did Ike start a war?  Nixon carter ford?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 09:08:16 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 09:01:31 AM

Did Ike start a war?  Nixon carter ford?

The cold one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 09, 2022, 09:30:12 AM

I kinda miss the Cold War, when all we had to worry about was conventional war with one Big Bad and maybe a little bit of nuclear holocaust.

Now we have to worry about terrorists blowing us up in our places of work, and drug cartels and economic warfare and climate change how many Likes we got on social media.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 09:44:45 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 09:01:31 AM

Did Ike start a war?  Nixon carter ford?

Seems to me that Ford did not. I forgot about him, honestly. I feel bad about that. Good guy.

Carter brought us into Afghan when the Soviets invaded.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 09:48:04 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on February 09, 2022, 08:45:22 AM

Well, the beliefs that Ukraine and Russia had good solid relations and no violence and this wasn't ramping up while Trump was president are all false. Biden also hasn't started any new wars, and actually took dramatic steps to end a war and greatly reduce violence. I'm hopeful there will be enough anti-war sentiment from both parties to keep them from starting a new one.

Russia and the Ukraine have never had good relations.

Are you speaking of the Afghan withdrawal debacle that is still going on?

I would not be hopeful.

The State is a deep one, and there are plenty of war mongers lurking within it.

#46 doesn't have the pushback to keep a war from happening if the Deep State wants one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 09, 2022, 10:06:18 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 09:08:16 AM

The cold one.

I wouldn't put that on IKE who actually got along quite well with Georgy Zhukov after the war as unlike Stalin he acknowledged the massive aid in trucks,Spam and boots that helped their hordes get to the Reich.Of course they were all scared as shit of Stalin after the war was over

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 10:14:19 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 09, 2022, 10:06:18 AM

I wouldn't put that on IKE who actually got along quite well with Georgy Zhukov after the war as unlike Stalin he acknowledged the massive aid in trucks,Spam and boots that helped their hordes get to the Reich.Of course they were all scared as shit of Stalin after the war was over

I suppose. You could put the start of the cold war on Truman, but we all know who was THE MAN in charge of the most powerful military in the world at that time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 09, 2022, 10:14:47 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 09:48:04 AM

Russia and the Ukraine have never had good relations.

Are you speaking of the Afghan withdrawal debacle that is still going on?

I would not be hopeful.

The State is a deep one, and there are plenty of war mongers lurking within it.

#46 doesn't have the pushback to keep a war from happening if the Deep State wants one.

to be fair to biden, a majority of that "plan" to withdraw from afganistan was put in place by trump. trump also didn't cooperate with biden admin in transition, which didn't help at all.

biden got the ball and promptly dropped it, but the one he was handed was old, flat, and covered in shit.

but at least biden owned up to it, even if it was a bit patronizing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 09, 2022, 10:17:20 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 09:48:04 AM

Russia and the Ukraine have never had good relations.

Are you speaking of the Afghan withdrawal debacle that is still going on?

I would not be hopeful.

The State is a deep one, and there are plenty of war mongers lurking within it.

#46 doesn't have the pushback to keep a war from happening if the Deep State wants one.

I am encouraged by the Afghan withdraw. That required some real steel to make happen, because the generals were against it. Trump famously failed at it, and I was pretty shocked that Biden saw it through. But you see the coverage calling it a "debacle" despite being very much not a debacle. Trump even came out and said he wouldn't have ended the war, (though who knows if that is true or just bluster).  That's a big threat - bigger than the Deep State. Letting the war people dominate the airwaves and talk about how terrible it is to not have war gets a lot of people fooled. There is a lot of magical thinking in politics, and foreign policy lends itself to magical thinking because most people don't pay attention to the various problems in other countries. They are just told there is a problem and, hey, we can fix it. 

There is a stronger anti-war sentiment in both parties, so that will hopefully be helpful. The duel party system doesn't help. Whatever happens, I'm sure people will say it was the wrong decision and btw elect my party next time and all your dreams will come true.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 09, 2022, 10:18:06 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 10:14:19 AM

I suppose. You could put the start of the cold war on Truman, but we all know who was THE MAN in charge of the most powerful military in the world at that time.

Perhaps if Uncle Joe wasn't kicking around for another 8 yrs they wouldn't have needed things like the Berlin Air Lift or the Marshall Plan enacted

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 10:18:22 AM

Our allies should have known about the withdrawal. Our citizens and partners should have been removed first. All of the equipment should have been removed or destroyed. We could go on about this, but there is no point.

It's an embarrassment, at best.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 09, 2022, 10:23:02 AM

Not sure if true but a friend who worked for GE for 38 yrs told me much of the equipment left has been  like digitally/electronically deactivated.Couldn't prove it by me,but of course the merchants of war will have to replace all of that won't they? Lord have mercy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 09, 2022, 10:25:21 AM

The great derby of buttressing and godding up our chosen swamp monsters. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 09, 2022, 10:27:03 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 10:18:22 AM

Our allies should have known about the withdrawal. Our citizens and partners should have been removed first. All of the equipment should have been removed or destroyed. We could go on about this, but there is no point.

It's an embarrassment, at best.

When sleepy joe 1st ran against Obama in 2008,he mentioned the importance of retrieving all of the equipment when he pulled the troops out,lest it be used against us.Evidently some one forgot to remind him.Can't find the video but someone sent it to me awhile back I may have shared it here.It was at like a New Hampshire Town Hall meeting or sumsuch

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 09, 2022, 10:28:17 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 09, 2022, 10:25:21 AM

The great derby of buttressing and godding up our chosen swamp monsters.

I'd like to goddle with them in the cross hairs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 10:35:18 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 09, 2022, 10:28:17 AM

I'd like to goddle with them in the cross hairs

Me too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 09, 2022, 10:47:43 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 10:18:22 AM

Our allies should have known about the withdrawal. Our citizens and partners should have been removed first. All of the equipment should have been removed or destroyed. We could go on about this, but there is no point.

It's an embarrassment, at best.

Our allies did know about the withdrawal. Everyone knew about the withdrawal. The equipment was in large part what was left for the Afghan military to defend itself with. This is the kind of no win situation which our politics specialize in. You left equipment! What a debacle. Had we retrieved - "you left without leaving any equipment for the Afghans!" That's the tragic part of our politics these days - whenever something bad happens, the only real response is to explain why it is the fault of the other party. 

In any event the Afghan withdrawal was the one great thing any president has actually done in a decade at least.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 10:52:15 AM

The "Cold War" started under Truman, in my view, along with one hot "conflict" or police action.

Carter didn't start the Russian invasion of Afghanistan, nor did he send US troops there.  Reagan had some pretty minor "actions", and Clinton was known to bomb the pharmaceutical plant or two.


Cold War Timeline. From 1945 to 1991, the Cold War dominated international affairs. The global competition between the United States and the Soviet Union took many forms: political, economic, ideological, cultural. At times the constant arms race burst into armed conflict.

Historians do not fully agree on its starting and ending points, but the period is generally considered to span the 1947 Truman Doctrine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truman_Doctrine) (12 March 1947) to the 1991 dissolution of the Soviet Union (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_of_the_Soviet_Union) (26 December 1991).^{[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War#cite_note-1)} The term cold war (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_war_(term)) is used because there was no large-scale fighting directly between the two superpowers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superpower), but they each supported major regional conflicts known as proxy wars (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_war). The conflict was based around the ideological and geopolitical struggle for global influence by these two superpowers, following their temporary alliance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allies_of_World_War_II) and victory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied-occupied_Germany) against Nazi Germany (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany) in 1945.^{[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War#cite_note-2)} Aside from the nuclear arsenal development (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_arms_race) and conventional military deployment, the struggle for dominance was expressed via indirect means such as psychological warfare (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_warfare), propaganda campaigns, espionage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War_espionage), far-reaching embargoes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_sanctions), rivalry at sports events and technological competitions such as the Space Race (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Race).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 11:44:54 AM

So, dentist today, things are fine.  The hygienist, who was very pretty and nice (and told me she just broke up with her bf), asked if I had time to do a "mouth scan".  I was curious, and she was cute, so I did.  That was amazing, she stuffs this rather uncomfortable camera into your mouth and the computer manages to put together a 3D image of your teeth and bite.

(https://i.imgur.com/Wk0TN64.png)

She was cuter than this lady FYI.  It was free, or so she said, and I didn't get charged anything for the visit.

Intraoral Scanners - Choose the Best One for Your Practice | Benco Dental (https://www.benco.com/technology-equipment/cad-cam-dentistry/intraoral-scanners/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 12:25:56 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on February 09, 2022, 10:47:43 AM

Our allies did know about the withdrawal. Everyone knew about the withdrawal. The equipment was in large part what was left for the Afghan military to defend itself with. This is the kind of no win situation which our politics specialize in. You left equipment! What a debacle. Had we retrieved - "you left without leaving any equipment for the Afghans!" That's the tragic part of our politics these days - whenever something bad happens, the only real response is to explain why it is the fault of the other party.

In any event the Afghan withdrawal was the one great thing any president has actually done in a decade at least.

Of course everyone knew. They just didn't know when. The Brits were shocked. They even helped some of our people get out. Sink that in.

For more analysis, I'll refer you to a friendly news outlet.


Even Biden allies question execution of Afghanistan withdrawal (nbcnews.com) (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/even-biden-allies-question-execution-afghanistan-withdrawal-n1276932)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 09, 2022, 12:51:13 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 12:25:56 PM

Of course everyone knew. They just didn't know when. The Brits were shocked. They even helped some of our people get out. Sink that in.

For more analysis, I'll refer you to a friendly news outlet.


Even Biden allies question execution of Afghanistan withdrawal (nbcnews.com) (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/even-biden-allies-question-execution-afghanistan-withdrawal-n1276932)

I didn't see a single person say in that article say they were unaware of the situation. Which is the point - everyone was aware of the situation. They were "surprised" that the Taliban took over the country, despite it being quite accessible that the Trump administration unilaterally negotiated the end of the war with the Taliban. The only thing that happened was that people started paying attention to the war, something they hadn't done for years while we were actually in it. Some sad things happened, and the impulse is to blame the current president. This is utter nonsense. 

The ongoing lesson from all these threads - Afghanistan, COVID, global warming, and everything else, is that people can't look at the range of outcomes and go for the best one. Instead, it's looking at anything that happens and then engaging in a pretty fact free mission of assigning blame or taking credit. It's not politics, it's reality television.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 01:12:40 PM

Afghanistan’s collapse leaves allies questioning U.S. resolve on other fronts - The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/afghanistan-chaos-blame-us/2021/08/14/0d4e5ab2-fd3e-11eb-911c-524bc8b68f17_story.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 01:14:28 PM

I paid great attention to that war. 

My son was in it, first to fight.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 01:15:50 PM

Chevy Spark Discontinued, Production Ends This Summer (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38961880/chevy-spark-discontinued/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&fbclid=IwAR1DWrvG-8RBeLylrWs0y5XgTX3hU_kOK_UKwmmFS1GXsXZ6kLJ9JQLmCsE)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 01:17:51 PM

My cousin's son was in it, he was in the Army and part of the group tasked to find Bergdahl.  He has some harsh things to say about that episode.

Tactically, the withdrawal was poorly managed, in my view.  A lot of folks in leadership should have been fired.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 09, 2022, 01:19:47 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 01:12:40 PM

Afghanistan’s collapse leaves allies questioning U.S. resolve on other fronts - The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/afghanistan-chaos-blame-us/2021/08/14/0d4e5ab2-fd3e-11eb-911c-524bc8b68f17_story.html)

They should be questioning our resolve on other fronts. We have engaged in essentially constant war for two decades in areas that we have almost no interest in. We should be questioning our resolve on other fronts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 09, 2022, 01:20:49 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 01:14:28 PM

I paid great attention to that war.

My son was in it, first to fight.

If our allies had their way, your grandkids could have fought in it too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 09, 2022, 01:22:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 01:17:51 PM

My cousin's son was in it, he was in the Army and part of the group tasked to find Bergdahl.  He has some harsh things to say about that episode.

Tactically, the withdrawal was poorly managed, in my view.  A lot of folks in leadership should have been fired.

I think in retrospect, it was a great tactical success. The evacuation of thousands was a near impossible trick to pull. A lot of the criticism doesn't amount to much that makes any sense if you think about it for more than five seconds. But most people don't think about that kind of stuff for more than five seconds, because they didn't care about it in the first place. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 01:26:57 PM

My son believes that not one troop should have left before every citizen and Afghan partners were evacuated.

I agree with him on this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 09, 2022, 01:31:03 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 01:26:57 PM

My son believes that not one troop should have left before every citizen and Afghan partners were evacuated.

I agree with him on this.

We'd still be there, and probably would be there for many more years if we were intent on that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 01:34:24 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/UBgUNnH.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 09, 2022, 01:45:46 PM

Mmmmmmmm beer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 09, 2022, 01:53:48 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on February 09, 2022, 01:31:03 PM

We'd still be there, and probably would be there for many more years if we were intent on that.

A much bigger effort should have been made

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 02:14:35 PM

Pullout should have started immediately upon taking out OBL. Even if it took 5 years, we'd have still been out by 2016.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 02:34:06 PM

I'd argue we didn't need to go in, in force, and once the Taliban had been deposed, we could have left, or we could have left under Obama about any time, or we could have stayed with a low posture (which I would not have liked).  Declare victory and leave.  

 Anyway, we stayed trying to fix a broken country, which sounds like one of our things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 03:36:06 PM

Another "ranking" to note, I wondered if the raters visited each site.  Missing from this listing, USC, ND, Michigan, Florida, Eastern Michigan, and OU.  South Carolina?  huh.

(https://i.imgur.com/tQAufBA.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 09, 2022, 04:19:32 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on February 09, 2022, 07:52:43 AM

I think Putin wants all of Ukraine for Russia as was the case when they were the USSR.  After Ukraine there's Moldova to the West which has a large Russian population.Its starting to feel like a Russian Anschluss.

This is just a flat out lie based on nothing but fantasies going on in people's brains. Where the f**k do people get this crap from LOL?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 09, 2022, 04:21:47 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 08:30:08 AM

Interesting question.

We know #45 was anti-war. So did Putin.

however, #45 was much better at playing chess than #46, who plays checkers.

Putin took Crimea when #44 was in charge.

Only one President since FDR has not gotten the USA into any war.

Trump deserves a lot of credit for not getting the US involved in new conflicts/wars. Part of the reason why the CIA/NSA/MIC hated the guy so much and literally tried to sabotage him at every turn. Still very chilling to see Senator Schumer go on Maddow's show before Trump's inauguration and call Trump an idiot for going after the intelligence community/deep state and publicly saying they have 6 ways to Sunday to go after you. My jaw about hit the floor when I saw that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 09, 2022, 04:23:35 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on February 09, 2022, 08:37:16 AM

LOL. A real grandmaster, that one.

Say what you want about him, but he did not start wars - something few presidents in the last 4+ decades can say. He was 100x the President than the brain dead dipshit we currently have in the oval office. And it's not even remotely f**king close. Give Biden another couple years to keep f**king shit up at the astounding pace he's been going at- and people will be begging for Trump to come back. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 09, 2022, 04:25:49 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on February 09, 2022, 08:45:22 AM

Well, the beliefs that Ukraine and Russia had good solid relations and no violence and this wasn't ramping up while Trump was president are all false. Biden also hasn't started any new wars, and actually took dramatic steps to end a war and greatly reduce violence. I'm hopeful there will be enough anti-war sentiment from both parties to keep them from starting a new one.

The issue at the heart of everything is NATO. It's a relic of the past, and it should not exist anymore. IF the US would stop trying to expand NATO and egging Russia on - this wouldn't even be an issue. Ukraine should've never been offered membership, the US should have never gotten involved in a coup of a democratically elected Ukrainian gov't in 2014 - and the US should generally just stay the f**k out of foreign governments internal affairs. Ukraine is of no strategic interest to the United States. Literally none. Less than zero. Not our problem- does not concern us.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 09, 2022, 04:31:14 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 01:34:24 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/UBgUNnH.png)

Reminds me of a group that use to be around these parts years ago.Drive by a roadside Pub/Tavern and on the lit marquee out front was promoted. FREE BEER TONITE ONLY,people stopped

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 09, 2022, 04:34:14 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 11:44:54 AM

 The hygienist, who was very pretty and nice (and told me she just broke up with her bf), asked if I had time to do a "mouth scan".  I was curious, and she was cute, so I did.  

(https://i.imgur.com/Wk0TN64.png)

She was cuter than this lady FYI.  It was free, or so she said, and I didn't get charged anything for the visit.

Thought you were Phil Niekro

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 09, 2022, 04:35:24 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on February 09, 2022, 10:17:20 AM

I am encouraged by the Afghan withdraw. That required some real steel to make happen, because the generals were against it. Trump famously failed at it.

this isn't exactly true. Generals flat out lied to Trump on troop counts & movements and that c**nt of epic proportions Liz Cheney made it even more difficult for Trump to withdraw completely. I'll give Biden a ton of credit for finally getting out. That's maybe the only thing he's done right in his entire presidency thus far - but Trump had made a deal to get out and the deadline was already set- a deadline which Biden extended a couple times- but ultimately he pulled us out - so major props for that.

Not sure US ever gets out though if you didn't have someone like Trump just attacking the Afghanistan war publicly on an almost daily basis for years and was really pushing to get us out. Biden would've never done that on his own.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 09, 2022, 04:38:32 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 02:23:46 PM

Forcing NATO into a corner isn't a smart play here, but Putin's not a military genius-- he's a bully and a thug.  So assigning reasonable strategic thinking to him doesn't make any sense.

You are underestimating this guy drastically. He's a former KGB agent. He's a ruthless, cunning SOB who is literally 1000x tougher and 1000x smarter than any of the f**king idiot politicians we have running this country. He'll out-think and out-maneuver the US on this topic, without question. And it's a battle of importance. Ukraine is of the utmost strategic importance to his country. Ukraine is literally of less than zero strategic importance to the United States. Means absolutely nothing to us, and means the world to him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 09, 2022, 04:42:11 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 02:27:03 PM

To the extent Russia massed forces on the border, it has the appearance of a threat.  Credible?  Maybe, that depends on your intel.

I don't think we have to respond militarily even to a credible threat, in all cases.

they've been amassing on the border for years. no invasion. this is much ado about nothing. they aren't going to invade. Putin isn't stupid.

STOP listening to the propaganda from US state department stenographers aka "mainstream media" and START listening to the people on the ground in Ukraine - IE the freaking PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE - who has blasted Biden and the US media for fanning the flames of war. If the guy whose country is supposedly about to be invaded and destroyed is less concerned about this issue than the US media propaganda machine - maybe we should kinda just chill the f out and STFU.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 09, 2022, 04:42:52 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 09, 2022, 04:38:32 PM

You are underestimating this guy drastically. He's a former KGB agent. He's a ruthless, cunning SOB who is literally 1000x tougher and 1000x smarter than any of the f**king idiot politicians we have running this country. He'll out-think and out-maneuver the US on this topic, without question. And it's a battle of importance. Ukraine is of the utmost strategic importance to his country. Ukraine is literally of less than zero strategic importance to the United States. Means absolutely nothing to us, and means the world to him.

He's a bully and he's a thug.  Ruthless sure, I mean, he's yet another in a long tradition of Russian despots.

I agree with one thing though, Ukraine is a lot more important to him than it is to the US.

But it's NOT more important to him than it is to much of Europe, because they're just waiting to see who's next.

As long as we're allied with European countries, we're going to be involved in this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 04:45:14 PM

Who offered Ukraine NATO membership?

When was that?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 09, 2022, 04:45:36 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 02:31:58 PM

Which is precisely why many of the NATO countries don't want to back down. 

We don't HAVE to do anything, but NATO by its very structure and nature is not an isolationist organization, and it's something the USA has put scores of years of investment into.  It's not easy for the US to dump its NATO allies.

LOL. NATO countries don't give a f**k about this issue. This is being entirely driven by the United States. 

France effectively left NATO in the 1960s and didn't rejoin as a full-member until 2009 or 2010. A gallup poll asked French citizens if Ukraine is invaded should France come to their aid. 53% said no. Ukraine isn't a member, yet - remember.

A same poll was done with German people but asked if a NATO member was invaded should Germany come to their defense. 60+% of Germans said no. IF a member was invaded, not a proposed member. 60% said no. 

The free loading Eurotrash don't give a flying f**k about NATO. It's an American invention and a relic of a past that no longer exists, and it is almost entirely funded, propped up, and controlled by the United States.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 09, 2022, 04:49:01 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 02:34:08 PM

Many of our NATO allies are extremely concerned about a Russian invasion of Ukraine.  Article 5 isn't the ONLY means of action, it's just the compulsory one.

Acting like a Russian invasion of Ukraine isn't a direct threat to NATO is silly.

The discussion of whether or not the USA currently benefits from the NATO alliance, or should still belong in NATO, is something else.  But this particular threat directly involves the US, as long as we're active and willing members of NATO.

this is rich. as long as we're active and willing members of NATO? WE f**king are NATO lol. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 09, 2022, 04:49:37 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 08, 2022, 08:13:10 PM

Team 'Murica:  World Police

yup. f**k this shit. it's getting so tiresome.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 09, 2022, 04:50:02 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 09, 2022, 04:45:36 PM

LOL. NATO countries don't give a f**k about this issue. This is being entirely driven by the United States.

France effectively left NATO in the 1960s and didn't rejoin as a full-member until 2009 or 2010. A gallup poll asked French citizens if Ukraine is invaded should France come to their aid. 53% said no. Ukraine isn't a member, yet - remember.

A same poll was done with German people but asked if a NATO member was invaded should Germany come to their defense. 60+% of Germans said no. IF a member was invaded, not a proposed member. 60% said no.

The free loading Eurotrash don't give a flying f**k about NATO. It's an American invention and a relic of a past that no longer exists, and it is almost entirely funded, propped up, and controlled by the United States.

France is actively sending their politicians to Russia to attempt to avoid hostilities, just this week Macron went to Moscow hat in hand to kiss Putin's ring and beg him to play nice.  Putin, laughed at him and released through their state department that there's no point in making deals with France because they don't represent the power of Europe. 

Germany lost its teeth after WW2 and they're happy to rely on the US to be their sole mechanism of defense.

You're RIGHT when you say it's time for the US to let these wealthy countries stand on their own feet, but you're completely wrong in your belief that they're not concerned about the situation right now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 04:53:20 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 09, 2022, 04:50:02 PM

Germany lost its teeth after WW2 and they're happy to rely on the US to be their sole mechanism of defense.

This is of course not technically true at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 09, 2022, 04:53:54 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 04:53:20 PM

This is of course not technically true at all.

Right... right...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 09, 2022, 04:55:40 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 02:48:57 PM

Preventing Russian westward expansion is the primary reason NATO exists.  So, no, it's not an indirect threat to NATO's mission.

Again, like I said, remaining a NATO alliance member might or might not be beneficial to the USA.  Some here have argued that NATO has outlived its usefulness and that's certainly possible.  But that's an entirely different discussion.

As long as the US remains an active member of NATO, then this IS a problem that is right there on our front doorstep.

This is just not true. Preventing the possibility of USSR and communism expanding into Western Europe and getting west of East Germany was pretty much the purpose of NATO. The "evil empire" is no more. USSR crumbled over 30 years ago. Hello. Russia does not = the USSR, nor is Russia a communist state.

This is a simple f***king issue. If you want I'll link you the declassified documents that prove WITHOUT question that the US gave assurances to Gorbachev that if USSR withdrew and allowed for the reunification of Germany, NATO would not move one inch eastward towards their borders. What did the US do immediately after USSR fell? They continued to aggressively expand NATO - a MILITARY ALLIANCE - eastward. The US went back on it's word. And having a hostile military alliance right on their borders - is not something any country would want.

The US isn't just an active member of NATO. They are THE member of NATO. The entire thing is propped up and controlled by the US. IF we left it would disintegrate in two seconds flat. The people of Europe don't give two flying f**ks about NATO. It doesn't even track with them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 09, 2022, 04:56:26 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 09, 2022, 04:49:01 PM

this is rich. as long as we're active and willing members of NATO? WE f**king are NATO lol.

Then it should be super-easy to dissolve NATO and dissociate ourselves from European political interests.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 09, 2022, 04:59:14 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 09, 2022, 04:50:02 PM

France is actively sending their politicians to Russia to attempt to avoid hostilities, just this week Macron went to Moscow hat in hand to kiss Putin's ring and beg him to play nice.  Putin, laughed at him and released through their state department that there's no point in making deals with France because they don't represent the power of Europe. 

Germany lost its teeth after WW2 and they're happy to rely on the US to be their sole mechanism of defense.

You're RIGHT when you say it's time for the US to let these wealthy countries stand on their own feet, but you're completely wrong in your belief that they're not concerned about the situation right now.

France and Germany don't want hostilities because they are both in general anti-war countries. France was one of the only NATO countries to stand up to the US during the Iraq War. Germany especially does not want hostilities because they buy a sh*t-ton of their energy from Russia.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 09, 2022, 05:01:17 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 09, 2022, 04:56:26 PM

Then it should be super-easy to dissolve NATO and dissociate ourselves from European political interests.

will never happen. god I wish it would, but the powers that be in the US will never let that happen. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 09, 2022, 05:02:13 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 09, 2022, 05:01:17 PM

will never happen. god I wish it would, but the powers that be in the US will never let that happen.

Which powers that be?  Who will never let it happen?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 05:03:54 PM

• Chart: NATO Defense Expenditure | Statista (https://www.statista.com/chart/14636/defense-expenditures-of-nato-countries/)

(https://i.imgur.com/F1sRn9C.png)

This is of course overall spending, not just spending related to European security.  I don't know how much of our spending is NATO related that could be cut if we dropped out.  I'm sure it is significant.  Just having the navy to keep sea lanes open in time of war is very expensive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 09, 2022, 05:04:17 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 09, 2022, 05:02:13 PM

Which powers that be?  Who will never let it happen?

President/Congress. There will never be a President to pull the US out of NATO and even if there was by some miracle one that tried, he'd get shutdown in two seconds flat by congress. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 05:05:58 PM

The time to reevaluate NATO's mission etc. was circa 1995, and it didn't happen then of course.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 05:10:44 PM

LRT FACTS. Has NATO ever promised Russia not to expand east? - LRT (https://www.lrt.lt/en/news-in-english/19/1577192/lrt-facts-has-nato-ever-promised-russia-not-to-expand-east)

Did The West Promise Moscow That NATO Would Not Expand? Well, It's Complicated. (rferl.org) (https://www.rferl.org/a/nato-expansion-russia-mislead/31263602.html)

Russia’s draft agreements with NATO and the United States: Intended for rejection? (brookings.edu) (https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2021/12/21/russias-draft-agreements-with-nato-and-the-united-states-intended-for-rejection/)

Russia’s belief in Nato ‘betrayal’ – and why it matters today | Russia | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/12/russias-belief-in-nato-betrayal-and-why-it-matters-today)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 09, 2022, 05:12:44 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 09, 2022, 05:04:17 PM

President/Congress. There will never be a President to pull the US out of NATO and even if there was by some miracle one that tried, he'd get shutdown in two seconds flat by congress.

Why? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 09, 2022, 05:17:18 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 05:10:44 PM

LRT FACTS. Has NATO ever promised Russia not to expand east? - LRT (https://www.lrt.lt/en/news-in-english/19/1577192/lrt-facts-has-nato-ever-promised-russia-not-to-expand-east)

Did The West Promise Moscow That NATO Would Not Expand? Well, It's Complicated. (rferl.org) (https://www.rferl.org/a/nato-expansion-russia-mislead/31263602.html)

Russia’s draft agreements with NATO and the United States: Intended for rejection? (brookings.edu) (https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2021/12/21/russias-draft-agreements-with-nato-and-the-united-states-intended-for-rejection/)

Russia’s belief in Nato ‘betrayal’ – and why it matters today | Russia | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/12/russias-belief-in-nato-betrayal-and-why-it-matters-today)

I just read the first article - and well it's flat out bullshit.

A) There was never a written agreement, nor was it ever claimed that there was one by anyone. There were assurances made- and those assurances didn't come from NATO - NATO is a bullshit nothing - they are a banana republic completely controlled by the United States - as they always have been since it's inception and still are today. Gorbachev's discussions weren't with NATO - they were with the United States - and the assurances he got came from the UNITED STATES. Declassified US state department documents and declassified documents by British and French government prove this without question.

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

US gov't being the lying bastard conniving d*ckbags that they are - are now basically saying nahhhh don't matter if we gave our word- doesn't matter you didn't get it in writing bro - our word means nothing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 09, 2022, 05:23:16 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 09, 2022, 05:12:44 PM

Why?

because NATO has allowed us to be the worlds police and wield massive influence and power over all of Europe and keep most of Europe as our vassal states. No one willingly gives up great power. Europe is our bitch. The UK gov't for example is especially the United States' bitch. They in particular are good obedient little whores and do whatever the f**k the United States tells them to do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 09, 2022, 05:26:26 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 09, 2022, 05:23:16 PM

because NATO has allowed us to be the worlds police and wield massive influence and power over all of Europe and keep most of Europe as our vassal states. No one willingly gives up great power. Europe is our bitch. The UK gov't for example is especially the United States' bitch. They in particular are good obedient little whores and do whatever the f**k the United States tells them to do.

Yeah okay. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2022, 05:37:04 PM

I'd rather we protect and secure our own borders than those that are thousands of miles away.


Fentanyl, anyone? Free crack pipes for all!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 09, 2022, 05:37:25 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 09, 2022, 05:26:26 PM

Yeah okay.

so you don't believe that NATO has allowed the United States to wield massive power in Europe and through-out the world? And if you don't think the UK is our bitch- you really haven't been paying attention. The UK is called America's Poodle or America's lapdog for a reason. They went from being our masters, to being our bitches. Kicking their asses in the late 18th century really must've did a number on them. They've had Stockholm syndrome for 230+ years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 05:38:20 PM

I think most of our influence in Europe is Hollywood, McDonalds  Facebook and Apple and Amazon.  

And the English language of course.  All the airline pilots have to speak English when communicating.  English words creep into their languages.  Their governments are fairly often at odds with ours on various issues.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 09, 2022, 05:42:06 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 05:38:20 PM

I think most of our influence in Europe is Hollywood, McDonalds  Facebook and Apple and Amazon. 

And the English language of course.  All the airline pilots have to speak English when communicating.  English words creep into their languages.  Their governments are fairly often at odds with ours on various issues.

Germany, nowadays sure - but that wasn't the case for literally decades. The French have always been difficult for the US to try to control - they partially left NATO in the 1960s and didn't fully rejoin/integrate until the late 2000s/early 2010. They were I believe the only NATO country to go against the US during the bullsh*t Iraq War. The rest of NATO however- basically falls right in line on anything of vital importance to the US, and the UK does it gleefully - UK are especially pathetic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 09, 2022, 06:02:51 PM

Ooh, look what just showed up :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 07:30:34 PM

all this slick versatility carried an $111,865 as-tested price, but that doesn't seem to bother Cadillac shoppers, who are readily forking over more than $100,000 (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35131404/2021-cadillac-escalade-sales-price/) for their 2021 Escalades. 

2021 Cadillac Escalade Diesel Is Smooth, Fuel-Sipping Euphoria (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a35454287/2021-cadillac-escalade-diesel-drive/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR0L95bxOIzxFTi7g6gFop2I3T15u0O1jReqi-y3Di8m_tQZmuKeAd4BeWE)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 07:36:09 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/OxdTHOv.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 07:38:40 PM

That means almost half were 3 stars or less.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 09, 2022, 07:57:30 PM

Cadillac Escalade can only tow around 7700 lbs.  No thanks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 08:03:46 PM

David Pollack - Georgia in 2003 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DgbxbtGk4o)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 10, 2022, 07:20:10 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 09, 2022, 06:02:51 PM

Ooh, look what just showed up :)

What brand is that?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 10, 2022, 09:31:10 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 10, 2022, 07:20:10 AM

What brand is that?

Hattori Hanzo? 

;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 10, 2022, 09:58:46 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 10, 2022, 07:20:10 AM

What brand is that?

Brand? I guess Katayama? That's the name of the blacksmith who forged it, anyway. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 10, 2022, 10:39:25 AM

2022 BMW M3 Competition PVOTY Review: Underrated, in More Ways Than One (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-bmw-m3-competition-pvoty-review/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR0fj-sTJFB2WV5q8i51YFCXS87DqRcvyPbl1K_xVfptbYv7vZE5n2SRA78)

I am almost shocked BMW could design a great car this ugly, in my opinion.

(https://i.imgur.com/jXWOJF0.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 10, 2022, 11:34:32 AM

These parts of US are where Americans live longest and shortest | TheHill (https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/593672-these-parts-of-us-are-where-americans-live-longest-and-shortest)

(https://i.imgur.com/KDRh3HH.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 10, 2022, 11:35:47 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 10, 2022, 10:39:25 AM

2022 BMW M3 Competition PVOTY Review: Underrated, in More Ways Than One (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-bmw-m3-competition-pvoty-review/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR0fj-sTJFB2WV5q8i51YFCXS87DqRcvyPbl1K_xVfptbYv7vZE5n2SRA78)

I am almost shocked BMW could design a great car this ugly, in my opinion.

(https://i.imgur.com/jXWOJF0.png)

Damn. Even that car's mother thinks it's ugly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 10, 2022, 11:36:30 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 10, 2022, 10:39:25 AM

2022 BMW M3 Competition PVOTY Review: Underrated, in More Ways Than One (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-bmw-m3-competition-pvoty-review/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR0fj-sTJFB2WV5q8i51YFCXS87DqRcvyPbl1K_xVfptbYv7vZE5n2SRA78)

I am almost shocked BMW could design a great car this ugly, in my opinion.

(https://i.imgur.com/jXWOJF0.png)

Amazing performance … but I have to agree. Dont like the look in front. 


Mine is SUV- exactly the same mechanically but I like the look too. ( it’s ok if you don’t 😂)

https://www.bmwusa.com/build-your-own.html#/studio/eoplyo20/options

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 10, 2022, 11:42:34 AM

That didn’t work. 
I just went and snapped a couple quick pics.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2022, 08:19:08 AM

The future, I fear:Largest LED display on any U.S. building debuts over The Battery

Ribbon finally cut on TK Elevator’s new North American HQ in Cobb County





(https://i.imgur.com/FlLKq2n.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2022, 08:34:08 AM

New satellite images show continuing Russian military buildup on three sides of Ukraine - CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/10/europe/russia-military-buildup-images-intl/index.html)

Russia has repeatedly denied it is planning to attack Ukraine, despite Moscow's massive troop buildup in the region. The Kremlin is believed to have assembled 70% of the military personnel and weapons on Ukraine's borders that Russia would need for a full-scale invasion, according to two US officials familiar with Washington's latest intelligence estimates.

Presuming this is mostly true, which is an assumption, 70% isn't 100%.  I don't know who decided it was 70% or how.  It would be enough to portray a threat which could gain concessions of some sort from the West.  I don't think Ukraine was ever going to get NATO membership anyway, maybe it would if russia joined.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2022, 09:39:00 AM

Flat engine vs Boxer: Here's the Difference (engineerine.com) (https://www.engineerine.com/2021/09/flat-engine-is-not-boxer-heres.html?fbclid=IwAR0IKIzMpXEVaaMkHVl9EhDZJZp0jFQdPi2jWXD6CwB2P662eTJn24nELT4)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 11, 2022, 11:44:29 AM

Just had a meeting with my financial advisor. Despite the 10% correction, we are good. Lost a little, but still beat the S&P by quite a bit, which is always the stick on which to measure.

Made a few adjustments to get out of some choppy things like global markets and emerging markets, but not much. 

Went a little more into science and technology. Good upside and very solid fundamentals. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 11, 2022, 06:09:04 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 11, 2022, 11:44:29 AM

Just had a meeting with my financial advisor. Despite the 10% correction, we are good. Lost a little, but still beat the S&P by quite a bit, which is always the stick on which to measure.

Made a few adjustments to get out of some choppy things like global markets and emerging markets, but not much.

Went a little more into science and technology. Good upside and very solid fundamentals.

Science you say?    😂😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2022, 06:15:26 PM

We stopped by a bar on the way back from our walk, it's a gorgeous day, and they had women's luge in a TV, so I did watch some Olympics.

Made hotel reservations in Copenhagen for May, hope this Russia thing doesn't blow up.

Lost a lot of money on paper today in the markets.  Meh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2022, 06:21:29 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/vSjxE5F.png)

The air wing costs more than the ship.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 11, 2022, 07:17:36 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 11, 2022, 11:44:29 AM

Just had a meeting with my financial advisor. Despite the 10% correction, we are good. Lost a little, but still beat the S&P by quite a bit, which is always the stick on which to measure.

Made a few adjustments to get out of some choppy things like global markets and emerging markets, but not much.

Went a little more into science and technology. Good upside and very solid fundamentals.

Investment advice: Nerds. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 12, 2022, 04:40:15 AM

2021 Audi RS Q8 PVOTY Review: Big Chungus, the SUV (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/news/2021-audi-rs-q8-pvoty-review/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR0SCmYhO_hQ65Qcrh5qGm8YM6ID_86jJ7j79rAGkF0FbPuqlQAis1EnWcA)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2022, 07:24:28 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 11, 2022, 07:17:36 PM

Investment advice: Nerds.

Heh.

;)

The nerd just got this thing:


(https://i.imgur.com/0wFC3aL.jpg)


Come on down for a ride!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 12, 2022, 07:41:56 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2022, 07:24:28 AM

Heh.

;)

The nerd just got this thing:


(https://i.imgur.com/0wFC3aL.jpg)


Come on down for a ride!!

Nice!  Motor?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2022, 07:46:56 AM

Volvo-Penta 380 DP with Ocean-X (closed cooling).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2022, 08:00:19 AM

I was talking with my brother last night, and the Ukraine topic came up. He doesn't believe Russia will invade (nor do I) but we both think it's possible, and it is.

That led to a discussion of what the US would do if China and/or Russia, Iran, North Korea started planting troops and bases in our back yard. 

Places like Mexico (China could own that country in a minute), Cuba, Venezuela. 

That would be the equivalent of NATO admitting the Ukraine, on Russia's doorstep.

The US would be outraged. Just like Russia is outraged.

Our border is wide open. 

It would be pretty easy to infiltrate, and frankly, it's 99.9 percent likely that it's already started.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 12, 2022, 08:02:18 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 12, 2022, 04:40:15 AM

2021 Audi RS Q8 PVOTY Review: Big Chungus, the SUV (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/news/2021-audi-rs-q8-pvoty-review/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR0SCmYhO_hQ65Qcrh5qGm8YM6ID_86jJ7j79rAGkF0FbPuqlQAis1EnWcA)

It’s rare that Motor Trend and Car and Driver disagree so widely on a Vehicle, but here they do.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a30233234/2020-audi-rs-q8-drive/

https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/audi/rsq8/driving 

I find the Motor Trend review to be… well.. way off.  Having put 7000 miles on this beast , Car and Driver and Top Gear nailed it. Outrageous speed and acceleration, grip in corners that defies physics ( mostly due to the 48V anti roll bars on each axle, and 4 wheel steering) and a ride around town or on long trips, in comfort mode to be super smooth and quiet.

The x3M competition definitely has a stiff ride even in its most docile setting- as I said before it isn’t for everyone. I love them both- but the Audi definitely did a better job on the ride/handling trade off. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 12, 2022, 08:02:41 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2022, 07:46:56 AM

Volvo-Penta 380 DP with Ocean-X (closed cooling).

Awesome!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 12, 2022, 08:06:34 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2022, 07:46:56 AM

Volvo-Penta 380 DP with Ocean-X (closed cooling).

make certain you have the right anodes on that thing... and well working cathodic system.... saltwater will make quick work of that duo drive otherwise- and so will stray current in a marina if it's left in the water.

other wise... it's between cobalt and crownline for the crown of best cruiser boats in that class... I envy you... I dumped mine last year (a rinker) as it just isn't well served here.... need a shallows boat here and an outboard.. I went through three engines on that thing, God knows how many props (until i got it right, and then swapped engines and outdrives with different ratios so the game started all over again).... the last one i had was a merc 357mag that i installed a close loop (fresh water) system on--- then, the game was "get the right thermostat and then trick the ECM/ignition".... it was a PITA... however, that rig would run 62mph with a ron hill five blade s/s prop on it....

well, until I spun every tooth off the shaft (in the upper) pinion in a maneuver to get over the wake of a shrimp trawler as i was passing it... i lifted over the wake, dropped to neutral during flight, and then back into gear with some pretty heavy throttle- loud bang lots of crunching for a split second or two, and then notta... engine running but no gogo... started to get warm (no drive movement no water flow- the merc outdrives in alpha1gen2 flavor have the pump in the foot, and if the drive ain't spinning you get no water flow... so... i sat there waiting for a buddy to arrive.... fortunately, the drive i purchased was under warranty and was rated for the ponies the engine was producing.. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2022, 08:13:59 AM

Good advice there. I did have a marine survey done, and everything is in order. We don't keep our boats in the water here - we use the in/out service at the marina. It's really nice, because they wash it down for us, and they flush the outdrive too.

This new one comes next Wednesday. Now, I need to sell the old one.

(https://i.imgur.com/3q5Ne0c.png)

Shouldn't be a problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 12, 2022, 08:15:59 AM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on February 12, 2022, 08:06:34 AM

make certain you have the right anodes on that thing... and well working cathodic system.... saltwater will make quick work of that duo drive otherwise- and so will stray current in a marina if it's left in the water.

other wise... it's between cobalt and crownline for the crown of best cruiser boats in that class... I envy you... I dumped mine last year (a rinker) as it just isn't well served here.... need a shallows boat here and an outboard.. I went through three engines on that thing, God knows how many props (until i got it right, and then swapped engines and outdrives with different ratios so the game started all over again).... the last one i had was a merc 357mag that i installed a close loop (fresh water) system on--- then, the game was "get the right thermostat and then trick the ECM/ignition".... it was a PITA... however, that rig would run 62mph with a ron hill five blade s/s prop on it....

well, until I spun every tooth off the shaft (in the upper) pinion in a maneuver to get over the wake of a shrimp trawler as i was passing it... i lifted over the wake, dropped to neutral during flight, and then back into gear with some pretty heavy throttle- loud bang lots of crunching for a split second or two, and then notta... engine running but no gogo... started to get warm (no drive movement no water flow- the merc outdrives in alpha1gen2 flavor have the pump in the foot, and if the drive ain't spinning you get no water flow... so... i sat there waiting for a buddy to arrive.... fortunately, the drive i purchased was under warranty and was rated for the ponies the engine was producing.. 

Ouch.  Great feedback though. 
on Badges side of the state he has to be careful. That’s the shallow side. (Gulf Side)

Water on this side much deeper- though ironically I wanted a shallow water boat for fishing. Just a 25 foot Ranger Bay boat powers by Mercury Verado 300 HP.  Most folks over hear run outboards. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2022, 08:45:50 AM

Most here do too. I like the comfort of the I/O though. 

Just have to keep an eye out for shallows. It's not that hard, to be honest, but I have not gone out in the dark yet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 12, 2022, 08:53:13 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2022, 08:45:50 AM

Most here do too. I like the comfort of the I/O though.

Just have to keep an eye out for shallows. It's not that hard, to be honest, but I have not gone out in the dark yet.

Plenty of depth for inter coastal waterway trip from Gulf to Atlantic side!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 12, 2022, 09:08:05 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2022, 08:45:50 AM

Most here do too. I like the comfort of the I/O though.

Just have to keep an eye out for shallows. It's not that hard, to be honest, but I have not gone out in the dark yet.

i used to run out to dinner via water... Beaufort NC is about a 30 run on plane in the daylight... we'd just putter back well after dark... the bestest thing i ever did was to use a plotting GPS- nothing fancy just a tablet with 5g--- well, 3g when i started using it... and navionics app... i'd be carefui on the way out, and plotting.... on the way home i got to where i'd trust it... just zoom in and keep the bow on the line... never had a problem. 

EVERYBODY here smacks bottom half a dozen times every season.... it freakin' changes often... really often... the route to the inlet has changed at least a dozen times since i started using the waters around here.  i ain't even joking.. and the inlet?  NC is infamous for their inlets and this one (one closest to me) is no different... 

however, brown's inlet near onslow beach aboard camp lejeune has obstacles you'd not guess if yo didn't know... it's a bombing range and there are targets on the barrier isles... lot's of people (me included) drop anchor at low tide when the sandbar is massive... but you gotta pick your anchor up and reset it as the tide comes in- otherwise it'll be under FEET of sand and you're gonna get a workout retrieving it... and sometimes, there are 'things' you snag... such as unexploded ordinance... kablooee.... 

some effer from Winston Salem weekend warrior found that out perhaps 3 years ago... the idiot pulled in a UX and carried it to the marina... the marina called local PD and fire/rescue who in turn called EOD at Lejeune... they stopped traffic across the only causeway in swansboro for several hours... the marines dug a hole near a barrier island and dropped the UX in it with some pretty heavy charges and blew it in place.... now here is the thing- i happen to know those UX's are inert... training rounds... i don't think they've fired a live round out there in a long dang time... not that the inert ones are 'safe'- they'll take your hands off- but... they didn't have to blow it like they did... promptly following the operation there were awards passed out to that EOD crew and newspaper articles about how awesome they are... it was quite humorous- poor guys- they sit there doing nothing for years on end, and i don't reckon i can blame them for the dramatics... however, it re-locked down brown's inlet for a good while.. $1k fine to stop there... they'd stopped enforcing it... they have since stopped again- but i don't want to be the one to find out they're doing it again, ya know? heheheheheee

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 12, 2022, 09:44:24 AM

Like the new rig, badge.  I also like the old one. 


I'm selling mine this spring, it's time to move on from the cruiser to a wakeboard boat.  

Anyone interested, let me know. :)

(https://i.imgur.com/m6zuDWg.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 12, 2022, 09:47:09 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 12, 2022, 09:44:24 AM

Like the new rig, badge.  I also like the old one.


I'm selling mine this spring, it's time to move on from the cruiser to a wakeboard boat. 

Anyone interested, let me know. :)

(https://i.imgur.com/m6zuDWg.png)

Nice!    What body of water will you wakeboard?

if it’s anything like it is here- and I suspect it is- you will sell that boat quickly!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2022, 09:52:18 AM

What year is that?

I've got a 2008 and now a 2016.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 12, 2022, 09:53:42 AM

Thanks HB.  It's got some issues but I'll price it to go.  The motor and drivetrain are in great shape and that's the key.

We have a series of dam-created lakes through Central Texas called "the Highland lakes."  The two largest are reservoir lakes named Lake Travis and Lake Buchannan.  The closest to town is constant-level but much smaller, the aptly named Lake Austin.

We tend to hit some combination of those throughout the year, depending on where our friends are.  Some keep theirs trailered as we do, some keep them in slips on the water on either Lake Austin or Lake Travis.  I can be at the nearest boat ramp to Lake Travis in about 10 minutes from my house, we're quite close to the lake.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 12, 2022, 09:57:57 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 12, 2022, 09:53:42 AM

Thanks HB.  It's got some issues but I'll price it to go.  The motor and drivetrain are in great shape and that's the key.

We have a series of dam-created lakes through Central Texas called "the Highland lakes."  There two largest are reservoir lakes named Lake Travis and Lake Buchannan.  The closest to town is constant-level but much smaller, the aptly named Lake Austin.

We tend to hit some combination of those throughout the year, depending on where our friends are.  Some keep theirs trailered as we do, some keep them in slips on the water on either Lake Austin or Lake Travis.  I can be at the nearest boat ramp to Lake Travis in about 10 minutes from my house, we're quite close to the lake.

https://laketravislifestyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/DSC1161-e1463784862369.jpg

damn- that’s beautiful!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 12, 2022, 10:06:06 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2022, 09:52:18 AM

What year is that?

I've got a 2008 and now a 2016.

It's a 1994.  5.7L Volvo Penta Duoprop.

One of the great things about Cobalts is that the lines are so classic, a 30-year-old boat can look close to new.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 12, 2022, 10:09:51 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 12, 2022, 09:57:57 AM

https://laketravislifestyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/DSC1161-e1463784862369.jpg

damn- that’s beautiful!

Yeah that picture is taken from one of the numerous decks at a local restaurant named "The Oasis" which is famous for its views and strong drinks, and notorious for its crappy food. ;)  Not unlike a lot of other touristy type places around the world, I suppose.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 12, 2022, 10:59:43 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 12, 2022, 10:09:51 AM

Yeah that picture is taken from one of the numerous decks at a local restaurant named "The Oasis" which is famous for its views and strong drinks, and notorious for its crappy food. ;)  Not unlike a lot of other touristy type places around the world, I suppose.

been there many times

don't usually eat anything

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 12, 2022, 11:18:42 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 12, 2022, 10:59:43 AM

been there many times

don't usually eat anything

The food is actually not THAT bad.  It's just one of those things that someone says, and everyone goes along with to sound like they're "in the know."

It's not great but works just fine if you stick to the basics-- nachos, tacos, maybe a burger.  

But you're definitely paying for the atmosphere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 12, 2022, 12:01:33 PM

within last 24 hours several countries have advised their nationals to leave ukraine. including australia, saudi, ireland, norway, sweden, isreal, germany, netherlands, new zealand, and... russia. china told nationals to be careful, but didn't issue leave warning yet.

this is on top of those already doing this, such as us, canada, england and france. us is removing diplomats as well as removing military trainers from ukraine.

looks like biden and putin to have talks today. we'll see if anything comes of it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 12, 2022, 12:03:15 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2022, 08:00:19 AM

I was talking with my brother last night, and the Ukraine topic came up. He doesn't believe Russia will invade (nor do I) but we both think it's possible, and it is.

That led to a discussion of what the US would do if China and/or Russia, Iran, North Korea started planting troops and bases in our back yard.

Places like Mexico (China could own that country in a minute), Cuba, Venezuela.

That would be the equivalent of NATO admitting the Ukraine, on Russia's doorstep.

The US would be outraged. Just like Russia is outraged.

Our border is wide open.

It would be pretty easy to infiltrate, and frankly, it's 99.9 percent likely that it's already started.

It's not really an accurate analogy, because NATO already includes the Baltic states of Latvia and Estonia that directly border Russia, and several others that are plenty close enough to stage missiles should NATO ever desire to do so.

It would be somewhat more accurate to say that it would be like Russia or another potential enemy already having military access to Canada, and then also threatening to push for access in Mexico.  Certainly a threatening feeling, but not at all the same picture as what you're painting.

And the fact is that despite NATO members Latvia and Estonia sharing borders directly with Russia, the US and other NATO allies have NOT piled troops and missiles into those states.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 12, 2022, 12:14:45 PM

I heard that Putin and Biden began talks at 11:04 Eastern.  Guess we'll see what comes of it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 12, 2022, 12:24:53 PM

"We'd like it if you didn't invade that country."
"Oh?  I had no idea!  Apologies."  
"Thanks, Vladdy."
"You bet, Joe."

Done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 12, 2022, 01:17:14 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 12, 2022, 12:24:53 PM

"We'd like it if you didn't invade that country."
"Oh?  I had no idea!  Apologies." 
"Thanks, Vladdy."
"You bet, Joe."

Done.

one can hope.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 12, 2022, 02:23:00 PM

Nope, there is really nothing to be said to change any of this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 12, 2022, 02:29:53 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 12, 2022, 12:14:45 PM

I heard that Putin and Biden began talks at 11:04 Eastern.  Guess we'll see what comes of it.

One's playing chess the other should be playing banjo in Deliverance

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 12, 2022, 03:19:50 PM

I suppose Biden could strenuously object to a potential Russian invasion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 12, 2022, 03:37:29 PM

Putin knows the deal.  No use repeating it.   He might agree to face saving measures like some negotiations, but in reality, the Russian people are told he's reacting to aggressive moves by the west.  I still don't think he pulls the trigger, I am guessing we'll see some kind of rather pointless "talks" while Putin destabilizes Ukraine from within.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 12, 2022, 03:44:43 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 12, 2022, 03:37:29 PM

Putin knows the deal.  No use repeating it.  He might agree to face saving measures like some negotiations, but in reality, the Russian people are told he's reacting to aggressive moves by the west.  I still don't think he pulls the trigger, I am guessing we'll see some kind of rather pointless "talks" while Putin destabilizes Ukraine from within.

I mean, he's already been doing this for the past 8 years.  Currently, the separatist rebels in Ukraine that are backed by Russia, are an example of this strategy in action.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 12, 2022, 05:40:56 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 12, 2022, 03:19:50 PM

I suppose Biden could strenuously object to a potential Russian invasion.

I'm imaging drunk Tom Cruise coming in from the rain, right into the oval office 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 12, 2022, 07:35:39 PM

For a baseball analogy, the U.S. is the Yankees and Russia is the Rays.

With an economy the size of my left nut, Russia's tiny investment in computer hackers has undermined our big, bad machine the past decade and a simple showing of might along a border has caused us to run around screaming that the sky is falling.

They're winning while spending far less.  Even if nothing comes of it, they've already won.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 12, 2022, 09:18:12 PM

Russia is supremely pragmatic and rarely waste effort.  Theyre a nuclear powerhouse and they'd use them if they saw an opening and a need... plus, they don't have a leash on all of them they've produced. 

Furthermore, that's a LOT of effort and money to amass those forces and not invade. 

I'd say they're going to... but, this is putin we're talking about who is one tricky SoB... he wouldn't be doing what he's doing if there wasn't a victory no matter how it plays out.... thats how he rolls. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 12, 2022, 10:22:11 PM

I hope Biden has read The Art of the Deal

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 12, 2022, 11:35:41 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 12, 2022, 10:22:11 PM

I hope Biden has read The Art of the Deal

Step 1:  If you're somebody's bitch, they have no reason to start a war.  They already own you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 13, 2022, 07:30:06 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 12, 2022, 07:35:39 PM

For a baseball analogy, the U.S. is the Yankees and Russia is the Rays.

With an economy the size of my left nut, Russia's tiny investment in computer hackers has undermined our big, bad machine the past decade and a simple showing of might along a border has caused us to run around screaming that the sky is falling.

They're winning while spending far less.  Even if nothing comes of it, they've already won.

Sheer Hyperbole. 


There's no way that Russia's economy is anywhere near as small as either of your nuts. O0

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2022, 07:51:55 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 12, 2022, 03:44:43 PM

I mean, he's already been doing this for the past 8 years.  Currently, the separatist rebels in Ukraine that are backed by Russia, are an example of this strategy in action.

Sure, the military buildup is not something new either except he's added to it.  Perhaps he saw how "exercises" got everyone here excited, so he extended them and enlarged them, while doing the other stuff inside Ukraine.  Maybe he gets some concessions, maybe not, but it's a stick.  Over the long haul, Ukraine has another election and by his good fortune, the Putin sympathizer "wins".  They turn into Byelorussia II.  Moldova is already gone.

For some reason, we DID let the Baltic Republics into NATO which is rather scary to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2022, 08:34:51 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/HgOnbMo.png)

Not a good trend obviously, doubled in five years.  When I had shoulder surgery, the doc gave me a 40 pill prescription for oxy, I took one of them and hid the rest.  The discomfort wasn't nearly as bad as needing an opiod, I took some ibu for a couple of days instead.  I don't know why he prescribed so many, but I can see a situation where a person is in more pain and takes the full dose and "likes it".

My wife had shoulder surgery, different surgeon, and same thing, but her surgery was more involved, I think she took 2 or 3.

It's amazing, if I get a cold I'm down and out and she keeps on doing the dishes and laundry anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 13, 2022, 08:54:25 AM

Women can push a bowling ball through a water hose.  We'll never be as tough as them.


While we all squabble over Ukraine and politics and this and that, kids are overdosing on drugs and Vets are offing themselves.  Every day.  Every minute. 
But we (everyone - us, the news, everyone we know, etc) squabble.


We can take people into outer space as if it's a carnival ride, but we can't get the people our society is indebted to squared away. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2022, 08:58:36 AM

Most of the vet suicides are folks over 50, it's an unusual problem, with no obvious solution.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 13, 2022, 09:11:26 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 13, 2022, 08:58:36 AM

Most of the vet suicides are folks over 50, it's an unusual problem, with no obvious solution.

And every candidate says its important and yet it's never a priority.  I'm not even a rah-rah military guy, but what our country does with its Vets is detestable.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 13, 2022, 09:14:58 AM

The drug situation is not helped by allowing the drug cartel a free run at our southern border 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 13, 2022, 09:25:13 AM

Yeah, it wouldn't be as bad if we put up a wall like they would in the 1300s......to stop a drug that is already here in the U.S. 


Your post is THE most ignorant thing I've ever read.
Ever.

Google "fentanyl" and evolve, why don't you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 13, 2022, 09:50:49 AM

Here ya go

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/dea-points-finger-mexican-cartels-social-media-apps-after-seizing-n1286177

https://www.npr.org/2021/12/21/1066163872/mexican-cartels-turning-to-meth-and-fentanyl-production

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/a-secret-look-at-a-mexican-cartels-low-tech-multimillion-dollar-fentanyl-operation

is three enough 

if not then youre beyond hope

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 13, 2022, 09:54:25 AM

The potted plant in the WH just sits by and allows this country to be invaded

with not only illegals but drugs as well

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 13, 2022, 09:58:02 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 13, 2022, 09:25:13 AM

Yeah, it wouldn't be as bad if we put up a wall like they would in the 1300s......to stop a drug that is already here in the U.S.


Your post is THE most ignorant thing I've ever read.
Ever.

Google "fentanyl" and evolve, why don't you.

That is an asshole post. People here are not dying from hydrocodone. They are dying from the shit that comes from China - through Mexico.


The Fentanyl Trade Through Mexico, Explained in 8 Graphs - InSight Crime (https://insightcrime.org/investigations/fentanyl-trade-mexico-explained-8-graphs/)

Fentanyl and its precursors are produced at numerous chemical factories in China, trafficked through Mexican ports, and transported to the border and into the US by established Mexican groups by land, air, and sea. However, it also goes straight from China to the US in the mail, threatening to cut Mexican criminal groups out of the trade altogether.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2022, 10:13:18 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 13, 2022, 09:11:26 AM

And every candidate says its important and yet it's never a priority.  I'm not even a rah-rah military guy, but what our country does with its Vets is detestable. 

What is it that we "do" to vets exactly?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 13, 2022, 10:20:12 AM

We trot them out to get an applause and then we ignore them.
VA Hospitals suck compared to regular ones.
And while they kill themselves continuously, we don't make them a priority.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 13, 2022, 10:21:59 AM

Maine is the most favorable state for veterans to live in. 

They place them on an even higher pedestal than the Left places Transgender Muslims of color. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2022, 10:25:55 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 13, 2022, 10:20:12 AM

We trot them out to get an applause and then we ignore them.
VA Hospitals suck compared to regular ones.
And while they kill themselves continuously, we don't make them a priority. 

I don't know how one can make a priority of elderly vets many of whom are not under VA care.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 13, 2022, 10:28:15 AM

My son will not step foot into a VA hospital.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 13, 2022, 10:32:48 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 13, 2022, 10:25:55 AM

I don't know how one can make a priority of elderly vets many of whom are not under VA care. 

I guess we should throw our hands up and say the problem is too hard to solve.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2022, 10:34:55 AM

I get varied reviews from my vet friends, but the majority are bad.  However, most of the vet suicides are not under VA care for depression or anything else, but the rate discrepancy is greater in the younger cohort.  This article claims the VA is doing a decent job, if they are being used for mental health.  Many older depressed vets don't seek VA care for mental health, that makes it tougher to solve unless family steps in somehow.

Suicide Among Veterans: Veterans' Issues in Focus | RAND (https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PEA1363-1.html)

A tough aspect of depression I encountered was apathy, I simply did not care to seek help or get better.  It's a spiral.  It's easy to say we should do more, fine, and harder to explain what that would mean.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2022, 10:35:29 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 13, 2022, 10:32:48 AM

I guess we should throw our hands up and say the problem is too hard to solve.

Some problems are in fact too hard to solve, but they are impossible to solve without ideas  that could work.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 13, 2022, 10:40:26 AM

Are you suggesting vets (of all ages) are a priority in our society today?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 13, 2022, 10:42:46 AM

Trump did way more for the vets then Biden has done



https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/06/05/veterans-can-see-private-doctors-under-new-va-rules-thursday/1345046001/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2022, 10:48:27 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 13, 2022, 10:40:26 AM

Are you suggesting vets (of all ages) are a priority in our society today?

I don't know what making them a priority means, other than somehow spending more money.  Having an actual plan is often a useful thing instead of just proposing vague things like politicians are wont to do.  

I'd be happy to make a lot of things a priority, but I tend to ask what that actually means, what specifically is being proposed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 13, 2022, 11:13:34 AM

Sure, a plan.  Money.  Keeping it in the public eye.  Studies.  Results.  

I don't think apathy is a good strategy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2022, 12:08:53 PM

OK, it's a priority.  And then?  Studies?  We have plenty of studies.  Money?  For what exactly?  How would you spend it?

We have a lot of priorities in this country, education, transportation, security, environment, homelessness, hunger, ... and limited resources that should be expended with a eye towards effectiveness and efficiency, instead of "throw money at it".

We spend more per pupil on K-12 education than any larger country anywhere, and get indifferent results.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 13, 2022, 12:25:19 PM

We need to get the government out of health care, and education.

They suck at both.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 13, 2022, 12:56:20 PM

How'd you guys manage to get a nuwildcat thread nuked?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2022, 01:03:58 PM

I'm not clicking on it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 13, 2022, 01:16:20 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 13, 2022, 10:20:12 AM

We trot them out to get an applause and then we ignore them.
VA Hospitals suck compared to regular ones.
And while they kill themselves continuously, we don't make them a priority. 

so... personal story here- and recent.

I was laid off in may2019 after doing a job for 20years under DoD contract... an aside, we did CBRNE and response to such events, and the Bio aspect pressed us into the pandemic response realm where we wrote and prepared for pandemics... yeah, check the date again of the contract (mid stride of a five year contract signed in 2017) being tanked... coincidence i'm sure, but a bad one.  

my insurance covered the entire family and though not as good as before the AHCA, it was good relatively speaking.  with it going byebye my wife picked up insurance for her and the kids- they didn't offer a package for me still of working age... no problem says I, i am a combat disabled vet and they offer enough to get out of the fine for lacking. 

my gallbladder decided to start attacking me just before the layoff... i learned to deal with it by changing what i ate.  it got worse and worse and then really bad... by Sept of 21 all i could eat with relative certainty it wouldn't have another go at me was crackers and freakin cheese... in november 21 that failed too... after a series of attacks i and in the middle of one i thought the thing had ruptured i went to the hospital- a local one... they shot me full of morphine, gave me an anti-nausea shot, three tests (ultra-sound, catscan- MRI) and once complete walked back in the room i was occupying and told me (quote) "pack your shit and leave on your own else security will remove you"- high enough to hunt ducks with a golf club and still retching i did just that.  stood in the parking lot and waited for a ride for a long damn time.  they literally treated me like i was seeking drugs and that alone. 

i still haven't decided what to do, if anything, about that.  all things aside, i'm still a redneck and still a former marine from what's now called MARSOC, so- i'm fighting back the urge every time i think about it to seeking out that bearded nurse with a 'tude who sent me packing in my almost inebriated state and with a gut still threatening to blow up...

i went home and slept it off- and in those moments between awakening and becoming clear of your surroundings i made a plan... the plan worked. 

i drove 6 hours to johnson city tennessee and the VA Mountain Home hospital... I stopped at Pal's and ordered a Big Pal double bacon cheeseburger, fries, onion rings, a massive vanilla milk shake, and chowed the eff down in effort to trigger an attack with a certainty.. and woke up the next morning with just that... i walked my ass in the VA ER and told them what was up.. 

they did an ultrasound and while they were preparing i told the doctor and his two interns what had led to this (refusing drugs of any sort as i didn't want to be identified as a 'seeker' again) and they decided to call the hospital i'd been ran out of to get the test results JUST to expedite the situation... THE OTHER FREAKIN HOSPITAL HADN'T EVEN READ THE RESULTS... 

the doc comes in after testing me for covid and getting the results- "okay, you're negative, and you need surgery NOW"... he says "we shouldn't touch you while it's inflamed, and partner it IS inflamed, so we'll wait until morning".... it's a DEAL!!! they put me in a room and treated me like freakin' royalty.... the next morning they ganked that little misbehaving thing out of me... they said "you can leave now but it would be better if you let us observe you for another night"... well, the dang place was so nice and the thought of either a hotel or driving home not as nice a thought, i agreed... i left the next morning at before 0600 and after the surgeon stopped by to visit... 

he said "that thing was thicker than any other i've ever removed indicating issues for a long time- the organs around it are also impacted by this and it's evident they've been damaged... you've had sepsis it's apparent, and several times from the (sp?) collitis caused by the gallbladder infection... how you've survived that is pretty damn interesting especially without treatment"... he asked why i waited so long... i told him because of my experiences with private hospitals... he just shook his head and THAT is when he told me about the results not even being read from the local hospital. 

i drove home the day after, stopping at every food joint serving food i'd been avoiding for three years... and enjoyed the hell out of it.  

when i got home there was a bill form the local hospital for $30k waiting for me.  I called them and told them to kiss my ass and talk to the VA... they did, apparently, but not before the surgical consult team from them did- they said "we just read your results and you need to come in for surgery immediately!"... i told her i knew she was aware that i'd already had surgery and they were just covering their asses, in so many words, which she acknowledged after a few minutes..." ... in a day or two i received another 'bill' from the hospital saying all costs except for the $500 surgical consult had been removed.  another call, another veiled threat, and they 'waived' that too.. 

VA healthcare isn't bad.  it has been the best experience i have ever had with healthcare. now full disclosure: i drove to tennessee purposely to avoid the VA hospitals in Durham, Fayetteville, and willmington as they have BAD reputations... really bad... while VA Mountain Home is considered by many as the best VA hospital in the nation... and idon't 'know about that, but i DO know they're damn good... 

there isn't a thing wrong with VA healthcare... notta... from my perspective and experience... 

what there IS a problem with is documentation- the military doesn't document injury or medical issues as they should which makes treatment especially later (after service) difficult.  also, the culture of the military trains people to shun treatment- especially in certain groups... which isn't a habit left in uniform pockets when the veteran leaves... so... many of these guys and gals don't seek treatment until that issue is life threatening and sometimes then it's too late.  blowing off the doc is not only encouraged, it's rewarded... long after service ends those issues come back in force and getting treatment as a service related circumstance is damn near impossible... it's with great fortune my injuries/issues couldn't be ignored at the time, and they were well documented as a result- and because of them i am rated within the system, and cascading along it meant i am 100% covered for any medical circumstance that arises... and so far?  i'm good to go.. the system worked for me.  

yeah... that's a lot of typing^ but it's something i feel strongly about and i despise seeing people without a dog in the fight in any way attempt to use it for their own purposes.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 13, 2022, 01:22:52 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on February 13, 2022, 01:16:20 PM

so... personal story here- and recent.

I was laid off in may2019 after doing a job for 20years under DoD contract... an aside, we did CBRNE and response to such events, and the Bio aspect pressed us into the pandemic response realm where we wrote and prepared for pandemics... yeah, check the date again of the contract (mid stride of a five year contract signed in 2017) being tanked... coincidence i'm sure, but a bad one. 

my insurance covered the entire family and though not as good as before the AHCA, it was good relatively speaking.  with it going byebye my wife picked up insurance for her and the kids- they didn't offer a package for me still of working age... no problem says I, i am a combat disabled vet and they offer enough to get out of the fine for lacking.

my gallbladder decided to start attacking me just before the layoff... i learned to deal with it by changing what i ate.  it got worse and worse and then really bad... by Sept of 21 all i could eat with relative certainty it wouldn't have another go at me was crackers and freakin cheese... in november 21 that failed too... after a series of attacks i and in the middle of one i thought the thing had ruptured i went to the hospital- a local one... they shot me full of morphine, gave me an anti-nausea shot, three tests (ultra-sound, catscan- MRI) and once complete walked back in the room i was occupying and told me (quote) "pack your shit and leave on your own else security will remove you"- high enough to hunt ducks with a golf club and still retching i did just that.  stood in the parking lot and waited for a ride for a long damn time.  they literally treated me like i was seeking drugs and that alone.

i still haven't decided what to do, if anything, about that.  all things aside, i'm still a redneck and still a former marine from what's now called MARSOC, so- i'm fighting back the urge every time i think about it to seeking out that bearded nurse with a 'tude who sent me packing in my almost inebriated state and with a gut still threatening to blow up...

i went home and slept it off- and in those moments between awakening and becoming clear of your surroundings i made a plan... the plan worked.

i drove 6 hours to johnson city tennessee and the VA Mountain Home hospital... I stopped at Pal's and ordered a Big Pal double bacon cheeseburger, fries, onion rings, a massive vanilla milk shake, and chowed the eff down in effort to trigger an attack with a certainty.. and woke up the next morning with just that... i walked my ass in the VA ER and told them what was up..

they did an ultrasound and while they were preparing i told the doctor and his two interns what had led to this (refusing drugs of any sort as i didn't want to be identified as a 'seeker' again) and they decided to call the hospital i'd been ran out of to get the test results JUST to expedite the situation... THE OTHER FREAKIN HOSPITAL HADN'T EVEN READ THE RESULTS...

the doc comes in after testing me for covid and getting the results- "okay, you're negative, and you need surgery NOW"... he says "we shouldn't touch you while it's inflamed, and partner it IS inflamed, so we'll wait until morning".... it's a DEAL!!! they put me in a room and treated me like freakin' royalty.... the next morning they ganked that little misbehaving thing out of me... they said "you can leave now but it would be better if you let us observe you for another night"... well, the dang place was so nice and the thought of either a hotel or driving home not as nice a thought, i agreed... i left the next morning at before 0600 and after the surgeon stopped by to visit...

he said "that thing was thicker than any other i've ever removed indicating issues for a long time- the organs around it are also impacted by this and it's evident they've been damaged... you've had sepsis it's apparent, and several times from the (sp?) collitis caused by the gallbladder infection... how you've survived that is pretty damn interesting especially without treatment"... he asked why i waited so long... i told him because of my experiences with private hospitals... he just shook his head and THAT is when he told me about the results not even being read from the local hospital.

i drove home the day after, stopping at every food joint serving food i'd been avoiding for three years... and enjoyed the hell out of it. 

when i got home there was a bill form the local hospital for $30k waiting for me.  I called them and told them to kiss my ass and talk to the VA... they did, apparently, but not before the surgical consult team from them did- they said "we just read your results and you need to come in for surgery immediately!"... i told her i knew she was aware that i'd already had surgery and they were just covering their asses, in so many words, which she acknowledged after a few minutes..." ... in a day or two i received another 'bill' from the hospital saying all costs except for the $500 surgical consult had been removed.  another call, another veiled threat, and they 'waived' that too..

VA healthcare isn't bad.  it has been the best experience i have ever had with healthcare. now full disclosure: i drove to tennessee purposely to avoid the VA hospitals in Durham, Fayetteville, and willmington as they have BAD reputations... really bad... while VA Mountain Home is considered by many as the best VA hospital in the nation... and idon't 'know about that, but i DO know they're damn good...

there isn't a thing wrong with VA healthcare... notta... from my perspective and experience...

what there IS a problem with is documentation- the military doesn't document injury or medical issues as they should which makes treatment especially later (after service) difficult.  also, the culture of the military trains people to shun treatment- especially in certain groups... which isn't a habit left in uniform pockets when the veteran leaves... so... many of these guys and gals don't seek treatment until that issue is life threatening and sometimes then it's too late.  blowing off the doc is not only encouraged, it's rewarded... long after service ends those issues come back in force and getting treatment as a service related circumstance is damn near impossible... it's with great fortune my injuries/issues couldn't be ignored at the time, and they were well documented as a result- and because of them i am rated within the system, and cascading along it meant i am 100% covered for any medical circumstance that arises... and so far?  i'm good to go.. the system worked for me. 

yeah... that's a lot of typing^ but it's something i feel strongly about and i despise seeing people without a dog in the fight in any way attempt to use it for their own purposes. 

Holy shit. Great story!  And you are one tough sum sonofabitch. 🎖🎖

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 13, 2022, 01:34:21 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 13, 2022, 01:22:52 PM

Holy shit. Great story!  And you are one tough sum sonofabitch. 🎖🎖

I tried googling him and got a picture of Clint Eastwood

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2022, 01:50:12 PM

What Are Those Metal Rods On The Aircraft Wing? (simpleflying.com) (https://simpleflying.com/aircraft-static-wicks/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_content=echo&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1eId0TcazqRyRFnrwVS4jpGrS4X5cWr1C4jfsywcx6i6_YbQl0PnXuGoc#Echobox=1644569741)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 13, 2022, 02:12:45 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on February 13, 2022, 01:16:20 PM

yeah... that's a lot of typing^ but it's something i feel strongly about and i despise seeing people without a dog in the fight in any way attempt to use it for their own purposes. 

I'm glad you're okay.

But you're basically sharing that the best ONE VA hospital is great. 
Cool.

The best of anything is good.  But what about the middle 2/3????  How many VAs did you bypass?  THAT is the problem.
The AVERAGE VA hospital stinks. 
Maybe (Cincy), I'm suggesting they should all be top-of-the-line.  That'd be a great start.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 13, 2022, 02:16:45 PM

Holy shit, drew! 

Glad you got through all that.  And man if that isn't a major plug for the VA hospital, I'm really glad they came through for you.

I'm not a litigious type but I'd think long and hard about suing the shit outta those aholes at the first place for malpractice and almost getting you killed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 13, 2022, 02:20:09 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 13, 2022, 02:12:45 PM

I'm glad you're okay.

But you're basically sharing that the best ONE VA hospital is great. 
Cool.

The best of anything is good.  But what about the middle 2/3????  How many VAs did you bypass?  THAT is the problem.
The AVERAGE VA hospital stinks. 
 
Maybe (Cincy), I'm suggesting they should all be top-of-the-line.  That'd be a great start.

I think that is an excellent place to start.

It represents an idea that could be fleshed out and become a plan, it has a definable scope, and if you put some metrics to it you should be able to enable some attainable, measurable results.  It wouldn't be cheap but it would be a sliver of our current defense budget.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 13, 2022, 02:20:47 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 13, 2022, 08:34:51 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/HgOnbMo.png)

Not a good trend obviously, doubled in five years.  When I had shoulder surgery, the doc gave me a 40 pill prescription for oxy, I took one of them and hid the rest.  The discomfort wasn't nearly as bad as needing an opiod, I took some ibu for a couple of days instead.  I don't know why he prescribed so many, but I can see a situation where a person is in more pain and takes the full dose and "likes it".

My wife had shoulder surgery, different surgeon, and same thing, but her surgery was more involved, I think she took 2 or 3.

It's amazing, if I get a cold I'm down and out and she keeps on doing the dishes and laundry anyway.

I got my wisdom teeth out about a decade ago, and spent like three days knocking back OXY, aspirin and anti-nausea medication.

The first day I felt mostly good, I brought one pill when I went out to dinner and immediately bit into some garlic bread which hurt like hell. Popped the pill, which killed pain for like 40 minutes and then I felt fantastic and tonight “ohhh, I see why people get hooked.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 13, 2022, 02:23:42 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on February 13, 2022, 12:56:20 PM

How'd you guys manage to get a nuwildcat thread nuked?

It's not nuked it's just in time-out.  If it can prove to be a good little thread and not get all crappy again, we'll let it out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 13, 2022, 02:53:07 PM

I'm glad everything worked out great @Drew4UTk (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1) 

My son's few experiences in Wisconsin were so very different from yours.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 13, 2022, 03:17:18 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 13, 2022, 02:53:07 PM

I'm glad everything worked out great @Drew4UTk (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1)

My son's few experiences in Wisconsin were so very different from yours.

the lesson i learned is to get his ass to a GOOD VA hospital and get in their system ASAP.  if that means a trip to Tennessee and Mountain Home, so be it.  it's the PEOPLE running the system, not per say the system its my observation.  since this happened to me, in early december, i've sent three folks up there and all of them have had good experiences.  

i hate to call a dog a dog when it's a dog anyway all the same, but, the people who run those shops are a direct reflection of their station chiefs... aka management... when they're just there to get paid and they aren't held to a standard bad shit comes to pass.  ah, but when they DO care?  different story altogether.  

this points back to government sheltering of themselves and their people.. and the people in the positions aren't a reflection of the ones best suited for the positions, but political favors and hookups.  if the bastardos would be held to a standard and not some sort of protected class these things wouldn't happen. 

the conversation here is 'how to fix the system', and it's my opinion that the system is fine- good, in many cases.. it's abuse of and extortion of the system that is whats wrong.  i hope there is a special place in hades deepest chambers for those people.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 13, 2022, 03:30:10 PM

and... i ain't tough.. i'm dumb and with just enough crazy to make it truly spectacular when i eff up- which is often.  however, when i plan something it usually happens.  it's the one thing im good at. 

one of the points of my post about this wasn't to access blame- it was to say the entire medical industry is a freak show of incompetence, and one that sends up major flares when it effs up due to the severity.  

as an example, a friend who is in a position to know and he does will tell you point blank "if you want to survive covid, stay the hell away from a hospital or doctor"... i won't elaborate here, but his reasoning is compelling and from what i can see, it's valid.  

another of the points i wanted to make begins long before va healthcare begins.  it has to do with the culture in the military that persuades, using very,,, compelling... means, to keep people from seeking medical help.  i've seen it at every level and seen people being punished for seeking medical help- usually for another infraction that otherwise nobody would have thought twice about- but that was the nexus of the event... their seeking medical treatment.  from that comes the 'excuse' the VA hospitals and facilities use which is "not service connected" and which is the go to akin to insurers finding loophole in policies.  

it's all crooked.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2022, 06:10:20 PM

It's usually easy to spot problem areas and much tougher to figure out how to fix them.

If it was easy, it would have been fixed already.

Politicians say things on the campaign trail, often vague notional things like "My Administration will make THIS a priority!" as if that means anything, and then of course they do next to nothing later.  They promise to fix whatever rises to the top of concerns, like inflation at the moment, when they really can't do anything but tokenisms.

I remember one candidate claimed he had a PLAN to address COVID and the other guy didn't have a PLAN.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 14, 2022, 08:58:03 AM

everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 11:56:17 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 13, 2022, 12:25:19 PM

We need to get the government out of health care, and education.

They suck at both.

not sure I agree with this.

the federal government really isn't in health care or education. their role in health care and higher education has basically been a version of corporate welfare which has lead to everything costing more money for the average consumer. the federal government in the united states today exists solely to protect the interests of their donor class. the more money the government dumps into financial aid/the more college loans the government backs- the more colleges charge for tuition- and the more bloated their administration staffs get and the more money these colleges pay their administration staff.

same thing with health care. federal government just pumps money in- and the scamming never ends by the private sector. the US government is the largest purchaser of prescription drugs in the world- and the idiots in congress actually pass laws preventing the government from using it's buying power to negotiate drug prices. they literally protect the profits of drug companies- by law.

US spends 2.5-3x per capita on health care than every other major developed western country in the world, and yet has worse real outcomes. Entire health care and education system is broken. Not sure how you fix it- but what we've been doing for decades literally doesn't work and is a complete f**king joke.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 12:10:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 12, 2022, 03:37:29 PM

Putin knows the deal.  No use repeating it.  He might agree to face saving measures like some negotiations, but in reality, the Russian people are told he's reacting to aggressive moves by the west.  I still don't think he pulls the trigger, I am guessing we'll see some kind of rather pointless "talks" while Putin destabilizes Ukraine from within.

I'd say the expansion of a hostile military alliance to your border is an aggressive move. And I don't think he'll invade. He's too smart for that. He's going to get what he wants from the west imo. Ukraine will be barred from ever joining NATO- as they should be. This issue is far more important to Russia than it is to the United States.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 12:12:33 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 12, 2022, 03:44:43 PM

I mean, he's already been doing this for the past 8 years.  Currently, the separatist rebels in Ukraine that are backed by Russia, are an example of this strategy in action.

Right...he's already been f**king with Ukraine for the last 7-8 years and hasn't invaded. Why would he suddenly invade now? Doesn't make sense. This is propaganda by the war machine/deep state/intelligence community. They ALWAYS need more wars to fight. Trying to sell the gullible American sheeple on more war is job #1. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 14, 2022, 12:23:20 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 12:12:33 PM

Right...he's already been f**king with Ukraine for the last 7-8 years and hasn't invaded. Why would he suddenly invade now? Doesn't make sense.

CincyDawg was making the point that Putin was unlikely to engage directly and felt instead that he would make moves to destabilize Ukraine and take it later.  My response is that he's been attempting this for the past 8 years and still hasn't managed to destabilize them to the point that he could easily take it.  It's certainly possible his patience with that plan has worn out and the next step is direct invasion.

I don't know whether or not he'll invade directly, at this time.  Neither do you.

I certainly hope he doesn't and, if he does, I certainly hope the US will avoid engaging any of our own troops in that war.  But it's clear that he wants to take Ukraine and he's willing for a lot of people to die in order to achieve that.  He's a thug and a bully and a warlord.  Killing lots of people to achieve his ambitions, is what he does.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 14, 2022, 12:24:55 PM

look closely at the history of Putin... 

think of him what you will, and i figure we all have similar opinions of him that pays no mind to political ideolog- but.. after cursory review of his profile you'll realize he's supremely pragmatic and he plays chess in 3D... he has set himself up to 'win' no matter the outcome, here.  

this is likely unpopular to say, here, but..... the riddle of invasion is better approached by/from OUR (USA) angle... who is best served by such a diversion and why is the timing so convenient right now to escalate this thing?  THAT is how much i trust the ruling class.... and i don't care if you eat peanuts or holler at coyotes... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 12:25:51 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 12, 2022, 12:03:15 PM

It's not really an accurate analogy, because NATO already includes the Baltic states of Latvia and Estonia that directly border Russia, and several others that are plenty close enough to stage missiles should NATO ever desire to do so.

It would be somewhat more accurate to say that it would be like Russia or another potential enemy already having military access to Canada, and then also threatening to push for access in Mexico.  Certainly a threatening feeling, but not at all the same picture as what you're painting.

And the fact is that despite NATO members Latvia and Estonia sharing borders directly with Russia, the US and other NATO allies have NOT piled troops and missiles into those states.

I tend to think it's a pretty accurate analogy. Latvia and Estonia are nowhere near as important to the Russians- to their history, their national interests, or their national security than Ukraine. And both those countries were added to NATO in 2002 I believe, which is basically just at the beginning of Putin coming into power- he didn't come into power until 2000 and he didn't get the death grip he has on that country until at least a few years later. He was nowhere near as powerful or wielded as much influence over that nation back then as he does now. And I'd say this is more of a law straw situation. Ukraine joining NATO would be a last straw that he just can't allow and has to ensure will not happen. Basically the Russians are saying enough is e-f**king-nough. You f**king team america world police assholes don't need to add ANOTHER country right on our ass to this bullshit hostile military alliance that you control like a puppet- this one- Ukraine being the most vital buffer state to their security and national interests. 

By the way Latvia and Estonia have both hosted military exercises- which have NATO missiles and troops involved in said exercises. So that's not exactly true. And it's not even that they don't have missiles or troops stationed in those countries- it's that if NATO wished to they COULD have them stationed there at any time- for any reason. That is scary to any nation. It is the AMERICAN WAR MACHINE that has wielded it's d**k and invaded more than any country in the world the last 4-5 decades. Russia has more reason to fear America than America has to fear Russia. That is just a fact.

Bottom line is that Gorbachev was assured by the United States that NATO would not expand one inch eastward if USSR would withdraw and allow for German re-unification. This is a verifiable, proven fact. You cannot change this fact. Nor can I. The United States should've kept to it's word. But it didn't. What did we do as soon as the USSR fell and Clinton won the election in '92? The United States almost immediately started expanding NATO to the east. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 14, 2022, 12:27:29 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 12:25:51 PM

I tend to think it's a pretty accurate analogy.

It's not, so no further response is really necessary here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 12:29:36 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on February 14, 2022, 12:24:55 PM

look closely at the history of Putin...

think of him what you will, and i figure we all have similar opinions of him that pays no mind to political ideolog- but.. after cursory review of his profile you'll realize he's supremely pragmatic and he plays chess in 3D... he has set himself up to 'win' no matter the outcome, here. 

this is likely unpopular to say, here, but..... the riddle of invasion is better approached by/from OUR (USA) angle... who is best served by such a diversion and why is the timing so convenient right now to escalate this thing?  THAT is how much i trust the ruling class.... and i don't care if you eat peanuts or holler at coyotes...

yup. nailed it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 12:30:43 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 14, 2022, 12:27:29 PM

It's not, so no further response is really necessary here.

:043:

yeah, ok. I see you keep ignoring the FACT that US assured Gorbachev that NATO would not expand one inch east ward. Why do you keep ignoring this? Declassified documents from 4-5 different governments prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt. Answer to that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 14, 2022, 12:31:54 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 12:30:43 PM

:043:

yeah, OK pal. I see you keep ignoring the FACT that US assured Gorbachev that NATO would not expand one inch east ward. Why do you keep ignoring this? Declassified documents from 4-5 different governments prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt. Answer to that.

I'm not ignoring it, I just don't really care about it.  Ask the Baltics whether they're happier with NATO protection or under threat of Russian invasion?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 12:32:37 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 14, 2022, 12:23:20 PM

CincyDawg was making the point that Putin was unlikely to engage directly and felt instead that he would make moves to destabilize Ukraine and take it later.  My response is that he's been attempting this for the past 8 years and still hasn't managed to destabilize them to the point that he could easily take it.  It's certainly possible his patience with that plan has worn out and the next step is direct invasion.

I don't know whether or not he'll invade directly, at this time.  Neither do you.

I certainly hope he doesn't and, if he does, I certainly hope the US will avoid engaging any of our own troops in that war.  But it's clear that he wants to take Ukraine and he's willing for a lot of people to die in order to achieve that.  He's a thug and a bully and a warlord.  Killing lots of people to achieve his ambitions, is what he does.

you're falling for the US propaganda hook-line and sinker. It's sad. 

Putin isn't some ideologue who wishes to restore the USSR and take over all of Europe. Where is the evidence for that? Yeah, there is none. He's been in power for almost 25 years now. He kills his own people to keep a death grip on his power within his own state, sure. What dictator doesn't? The dude is more concerned with making himself, his friends, families, and allies filthy rich than he is with invading and controlling the entire world. Bottom line- US needs to stick to it's word and stop expanding NATO east, and Ukraine is of the utmost strategic importance to Russia. It's pretty f**king simple. Stop trying to make up fairy tales in your head and making it more complicated than it really is, and stop buying the bullshit US war machine/deep state/MIC/intelligence community/whatever you want to call it propaganda.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 14, 2022, 12:33:14 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 12:32:37 PM

you're falling for the US propaganda hook-line and sinker. It's sad.

LMAO.

You're falling for Putin's propaganda, which is much, much sadder.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 12:33:46 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 14, 2022, 12:31:54 PM

I'm not ignoring it, I just don't really care about it.  Ask the Baltics whether they're happier with NATO protection or under threat of Russian invasion? 

I don't give a flying f***k about the Baltics. Nor should you. The US made promises- the US isn't keeping those promises. That's what I care about. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 12:34:35 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 14, 2022, 12:33:14 PM

LMAO.

You're falling for Putin's propaganda, which is much, much sadder.

No. You are falling for the deep states though. I'll repeat AGAIN....since you have selective reading...

Putin isn't some ideologue who wishes to restore the USSR and take over all of Europe. Where is the evidence for that? Yeah, there is none. He's been in power for almost 25 years now. He kills his own people to keep a death grip on his power within his own state, sure. What dictator doesn't? The dude is more concerned with making himself, his friends, families, and allies filthy rich than he is with invading and controlling the entire world. Bottom line- US needs to stick to it's word and stop expanding NATO east, and Ukraine is of the utmost strategic importance to Russia. It's pretty f**king simple. Stop trying to make up fairy tales in your head and making it more complicated than it really is, and stop buying the bullshit US war machine/deep state/MIC/intelligence community/whatever you want to call it propaganda.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 14, 2022, 12:39:21 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 12:34:35 PM

No. You are falling for the deep states though. I'll repeat AGAIN....since you have selective reading...

Putin isn't some ideologue who wishes to restore the USSR and take over all of Europe. Where is the evidence for that? Yeah, there is none. He's been in power for almost 25 years now. He kills his own people to keep a death grip on his power within his own state, sure. What dictator doesn't? The dude is more concerned with making himself, his friends, families, and allies filthy rich than he is with invading and controlling the entire world. Bottom line- US needs to stick to it's word and stop expanding NATO east, and Ukraine is of the utmost strategic importance to Russia. It's pretty f**king simple. Stop trying to make up fairy tales in your head and making it more complicated than it really is, and stop buying the bullshit US war machine/deep state/MIC/intelligence community/whatever you want to call it propaganda.

You don't have to repeat your nutjob conspiracy theories, we've all heard them a million times.  Seriously, you can give them a rest.  You're not strengthening your position by spouting off like Alex Jones.

It's irrelevant WHY Putin wants Ukraine, only that he clearly does.  If he wants it for his own riches, it's still a threat to the rest of Europe.

It's certainly debatable whether or not the US should be involved in any of that, and that's where you and I agree.  I don't want to see us sending troops over there. 

But that doesn't change the fact that Putin is a threat to  ALL of Eastern Europe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on February 14, 2022, 12:40:10 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 12:34:35 PM

No. You are falling for the deep states though. I'll repeat AGAIN....since you have selective reading...

Putin isn't some ideologue who wishes to restore the USSR and take over all of Europe. Where is the evidence for that? Yeah, there is none. He's been in power for almost 25 years now. He kills his own people to keep a death grip on his power within his own state, sure. What dictator doesn't? The dude is more concerned with making himself, his friends, families, and allies filthy rich than he is with invading and controlling the entire world. Bottom line- US needs to stick to it's word and stop expanding NATO east, and Ukraine is of the utmost strategic importance to Russia. It's pretty f**king simple. Stop trying to make up fairy tales in your head and making it more complicated than it really is, and stop buying the bullshit US war machine/deep state/MIC/intelligence community/whatever you want to call it propaganda.

Putin has stated his goal to re-unify the former USSR publicly in the past.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 01:30:15 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on February 14, 2022, 12:40:10 PM

Putin has stated his goal to re-unify the former USSR publicly in the past.

this is just a flat out lie. He has never said that. Stop repeating this bullsh*t as fact, because it's not. He has said he considers the collapse of the Soviet Union a great tragedy. That's it. He's never once said he's going to rebuild it. That is just a lie.

Russia is not a communist state, nor is Putin some communist ideologue like Lenin. Dude is crony capitalist crook who uses the power of the state to make himself billions. You're just making shit up. Stop it.

By the way, Putin and his government HAS said in the past that it's impossible for the Soviet Union to be revived. He has said that. He's never said I WILL REVIVE THE USSR. Never said it. So just stop.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 01:38:33 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 14, 2022, 12:39:21 PM

You don't have to repeat your nutjob conspiracy theories, we've all heard them a million times.  Seriously, you can give them a rest.  You're not strengthening your position by spouting off like Alex Jones.

It's irrelevant WHY Putin wants Ukraine, only that he clearly does.  If he wants it for his own riches, it's still a threat to the rest of Europe.

It's certainly debatable whether or not the US should be involved in any of that, and that's where you and I agree.  I don't want to see us sending troops over there.

But that doesn't change the fact that Putin is a threat to  ALL of Eastern Europe.

What nutjob conspiracy theories? Give me a break. You're better than this bullsh*t. For a very smart guy- you're pretty dumb on this topic. Not surprising though- as the US war machine propaganda system has brainwashed vast majority of people on this like they do almost every war/conflict.

Speaking of Alex Jones- that was GREAT when veteran AP Reporter Matt Lee slammed former CIA weasel/current state department f**kface Ned Price and called him and the US gov't baseless assertions Alex Jones level conspiracies right to his face. You want to talk Alex Jones conspiracies? That's the US gov't unprovable, completely evidence-less propaganda assertions about paid Russian crisis actors and false flags and all kinds of crazy shit. 

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1489336004637044746?s=20&t=lxxrJ7W0asHlYyYV7P1-Nw

Putin is not the boogeyman the US has made him out to be. Russia is not a threat to the US or 99% of the world. They want to control their little corner of the world and have buffer states between them and NATO. US made promises to Gorbachev that NATO would not expand one inch east- that is NOT conspiracy theory- it is FACT.

I'd say your assertions than Putin is the boogeyman and is going to take over Europe is a motherf**king conspiracy theory of the highest order. There is just not evidence of that and the guy has been in power for 25 years.

It's very simple. Stop making it more complicated than it is. Ukraine and Crimea were/are of the utmost strategic importance and incredibly important to the national interests of Russia. It's as simple as that. When the US helped toppled a democratically elected gov't in 2014 in Ukraine that was basically neutral between the West and Russia- and install a very pro-Western gov't - that is when shit hit the proverbial fan. Like many shitshows around the f**king world- Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria - the US is in very large part to blame for the current situation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 01:41:55 PM

rest of the world sees the US as a danger to the world. Hmmm...wonder why that is? Could it be because we are always dropping bombs, overthrowing elected gov'ts, and in general just being giant pieces of shit? Yup.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/02/14/more-people-around-the-world-see-u-s-power-and-influence-as-a-major-threat-to-their-country/

weird....don't see the rest of the world viewing Russia as a danger to the world. :043:

How weird! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 14, 2022, 01:52:14 PM

I don't think Putin's a bogeyman or a global threat.  I do think he's a threat to EASTERN Europe, which is what I stated.  And in particular he's a threat to former USSR bloc countries.

I agree he's never said he wanted to get the entire USSR back together, but has only lamented the fall of the USSR as "the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century."  Folks will read into that whatever they like, but in reality it's all completely irrelevant because Putin lies all the time, not a single word he ever utters can be trusted.

Instead you have to look at his actions.  Crimea, Belarus, and as you yourself have admitted, 8 years of attempted destabilization in Ukraine, are all you need to know about his intentions regarding former Soviet holdings.  As always, actions speak louder than words.  

And that you think I'm somehow influenced by some Deep State agenda is the really odd thing here-- if they were indeed trying to influence me into warmongering on behalf of Ukraine, they've failed.  Because I don't support engaging any US troops in any potential war that occurs there.

I do believe that Putin's Russia is a threat to Eastern Europe, and the Eastern Europeans do, too.  I'm not sure why you'd care one way or the other about that, since you've made obvious your position as a pretty strict isolationist.  And in this instance, I'm right there with you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 02:05:03 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 14, 2022, 01:52:14 PM

I do believe that Putin's Russia is a threat to Eastern Europe, and the Eastern Europeans do, too.  I'm not sure why you'd care one way or the other about that, since you've made obvious your position as a pretty strict isolationist.  And in this instance, I'm right there with you.

I wouldn't say I'm a strict isolationist. I just think war should always be a last resort. US too often engages in wars of offense and wars of aggression. Wars of aggression should only be fought in very limited instances. I am actually FOR a war of aggression against China. I think you've seen me here many times saying the US should wipe out China right now while it still can. The longer we wait, the more powerful we let them become. China very openly says their aim is to supplant the US as the worlds power. China openly states and has implemented policies to attempt to overtake the US. Their belt and road initiative is right out in the open- they wish to completely re-route world trade. Their Made in China 2025 initiative - they openly want to supplant the US in high-tech manufacturing. They are building up their armed forces at record rates. They are continually threatening Taiwan (an actual place of vital strategic importance to the US, unlike Ukraine) - they are building artificial islands all over the South China Sea to try and claim territory and natural resources - and they openly threaten US aircraft that fly near these islands. This one is just a simple calculation- take their asses out right now while you still might be able to. In 20-30 years- might not be able to. 

I think we should only fight wars when they are of vital strategic importance or when we need to defend ourselves and our allies. If Putin was invading Germany, France, and UK - then it's a different story. He hasn't invaded Ukraine yet- nor do I think he will. He basically just wants assurances that NATO won't keep expanding and be right on his ass- and he wants to have dominance his little sphere of the world near Russia. I say let him. Who cares? Not our fight or our problem. Ukraine is of zero importance to the US. Why are we even involved there? I say make amends with Putin and put it in writing that Ukraine has no place in NATO- not now or ever. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 02:18:16 PM

imo as far as Ukraine goes, US should tell them, we'll sell you all the equipment & arms you can afford, send some of your guys to us and we'll train 'em up- but we ain't ever getting involved in a hot war over you and you guys aren't ever joining NATO. Boom. Problem solved.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 14, 2022, 02:18:54 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 13, 2022, 12:25:19 PM

We need to get the government out of health care, and education.

They suck at both.

This is interesting because it would create such a radical restructuring of our society, and the externalities would be something most folks would take issue with.

We’ll start in medicine. I agree, the government should pull out of that world in a lot of ways. Requirements and tax incentives are the only reason employers provide health insurance, and that’s frankly something we need done away with. But if you provide some low-end backstop, make a lot of folks fend for themselves, you’ll see a massive market correction. Tons of short-term contraction on the medical side and in terms of HR as that industry moves toward a new market model. The long term would be better than our halfway system, but the short term issues, both in unemployment and customer problems are something I doubt the country would stomach by and large. 

Education is trickier because on balance it’s probably not profitable. And it serves the important role of daycare so millions and millions can go do jobs. In addition to that, it socializes kids, more often than not for good, and preps them with some skills, though not enough. Perhaps the private sector wants to take on that sort of challenge, but more likely than not, it’s a collective good that’s going to be extremely hard to fit into that private market mold.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 02:20:32 PM

I don't view it as practicable to "wipe out China" without using massive nuclear weapons, and that might wipe out more than just China.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2022, 02:26:51 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 14, 2022, 02:18:54 PM

This is interesting because it would create such a radical restructuring of our society, and the externalities would be something most folks would take issue with.

We’ll start in medicine. I agree, the government should pull out of that world in a lot of ways. Requirements and tax incentives are the only reason employers provide health insurance, and that’s frankly something we need done away with. But if you provide some low-end backstop, make a lot of folks fend for themselves, you’ll see a massive market correction. Tons of short-term contraction on the medical side and in terms of HR as that industry moves toward a new market model. The long term would be better than our halfway system, but the short term issues, both in unemployment and customer problems are something I doubt the country would stomach by and large. 

Education is trickier because on balance it’s probably not profitable. And it serves the important role of daycare so millions and millions can go do jobs. In addition to that, it socializes kids, more often than not for good, and preps them with some skills, though not enough. Perhaps the private sector wants to take on that sort of challenge, but more likely than not, it’s a collective good that’s going to be extremely hard to fit into that private market mold.

All of this belongs at the state and local level. There is no need to have the Feds involved.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 14, 2022, 02:27:29 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 14, 2022, 02:18:54 PM

This is interesting because it would create such a radical restructuring of our society, and the externalities would be something most folks would take issue with.

We’ll start in medicine. I agree, the government should pull out of that world in a lot of ways. Requirements and tax incentives are the only reason employers provide health insurance, and that’s frankly something we need done away with. But if you provide some low-end backstop, make a lot of folks fend for themselves, you’ll see a massive market correction. Tons of short-term contraction on the medical side and in terms of HR as that industry moves toward a new market model. The long term would be better than our halfway system, but the short term issues, both in unemployment and customer problems are something I doubt the country would stomach by and large. 

Education is trickier because on balance it’s probably not profitable. And it serves the important role of daycare so millions and millions can go do jobs. In addition to that, it socializes kids, more often than not for good, and preps them with some skills, though not enough. Perhaps the private sector wants to take on that sort of challenge, but more likely than not, it’s a collective good that’s going to be extremely hard to fit into that private market mold.

I think the key here is parents vs the Federal Government

Its not the Federal Governments job to do anything towards education but provide funds to the states for education

after that its job is done

state and local government should be the one to educate children

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 02:34:27 PM

We had lunch at a new place near us called Rumi's Kitchen, it's Persian cuisine, and it was the best meal I've had in Atlanta.  I write a weekly review for our condo newsletter and gave them credit accordingly.  We loved it, it isn't cheap, but really interesting and very tasty (and hard to get into at night).  We have a lot of good places here in easy walking distance, this one is exceptional.

CS-Master-Menu-File-Jan-11th-2022-3.pdf (rumiskitchen.com) (https://www.rumiskitchen.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/CS-Master-Menu-File-Jan-11th-2022-3.pdf)

Ready to go back.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 14, 2022, 02:53:58 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2022, 02:26:51 PM

All of this belongs at the state and local level. There is no need to have the Feds involved.

Ahh, thought you meant all government.

We do need to pull back government from medicine, outside some low-end baseline, but I don’t know a slow way to get employers out that doesn’t shock the system.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 02:58:32 PM

Nearly half of all US medical bills today are paid by government.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 03:06:16 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 02:58:32 PM

Nearly half of all US medical bills today are paid by government.

right. because Medicare is 99% old people- and these are the people who typically have the most serious health problems and illnesses which cost the most money to treat via surgeries or prescription drugs. 

And the government picking up the tab on this is part of the reason why medical care costs so much. Government is prohibited by law to negotiate drug prices- even though Medicare is the largest single purchaser of prescription drugs in the world. these keeps drug prices higher than they should be. for everyone. 

the waste and fraud that goes on in medicare is insane. i have seen it first hand. it's almost impossible to get caught- the ones that do usually get ratted on by someone inside with a grudge or axe to grind. and once drug companies/hospitals have their profits essentially protected by the government- they have zero reason to negotiate. the price is the price. sorry. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 14, 2022, 03:10:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 02:58:32 PM

Nearly half of all US medical bills today are paid by government.

That’s not so surprising, is it?

The government covers most of the bills for most old folks, some really poor folks and the 15 percent of the workforce that works for it. So the only way to put a dent in that is cut off one of those groups. (It also looks like that number might have bloated with a bunch of the pandemic relief getting categorized there)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 14, 2022, 03:17:14 PM

And let’s not forget- the government is US as far as paying for things. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 03:26:42 PM

We have this composite window made of 9 windows, each 3' by 3'.  It's a nice look, but five of them are being replaced today.  The window guy pulled a screw out of one of them and a cascade of water came out, not a good thing obviously.  The screw was in the frame around the window.  They are still having at it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 14, 2022, 03:32:04 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 11:56:17 AM

US spends 2.5-3x per capita on health care than every other major developed western country in the world, and yet has worse real outcomes. Entire health care and education system is broken. Not sure how you fix it- but what we've been doing for decades literally doesn't work and is a complete f**king joke.

I agree with most of your rant, but not so much on this part... 

The US has the best health care in the world, IMHO. That best health care actually DOES translate into better outcomes. If due to your SES and health insurance status you have access to the system, outcomes are great here.

Our health care SYSTEM is a giant charlie foxtrot, it offers horrifically unequal access to care, and I'd call the system broken--agree 100% there. But that doesn't mean that the care--if you have access--is worse. 

We also have some trappings of our wealth as a society that cause worse outcomes based on worse starting points. Obesity, diabetes, etc... Sadly the poorest among us are typically the most fat because they have access to cheap calories but not healthful food. But that's a completely different issue than quality of healthcare... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 03:38:48 PM

I really notice the obesity after spending a few weeks in Europe, it his one upside the head.  And of course it's a major health issue.  Europeans with some obvious exceptions are much thinner than we, and it's rare to see a hugely fat European.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 14, 2022, 03:43:46 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 03:38:48 PM

I really notice the obesity after spending a few weeks in Europe, it his one upside the head.  And of course it's a major health issue.  Europeans with some obvious exceptions are much thinner than we, and it's rare to see a hugely fat European.

This is true, but not as true as it was 25 years ago when I first began making regular trips to Europe.  The difference between how thin they were then, and how relatively fatter they are now, is somewhat surprising.  They're basically on the same curve we started 70 or so years ago, right after WW2.  I'm sure the proliferation of American-style fast food hasn't helped them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 14, 2022, 03:48:04 PM

In other news: 
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/594063-us-suspends-avocado-imports-from-mexico-after-threat-to-inspector?amp

Quote

US suspends avocado imports from Mexico after threat to inspector

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 14, 2022, 03:54:24 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 03:08:51 PM

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/comcast-customer-still-more-hated-irs-214241365.html

Moving this over here from the Olympics thread...


The reason that Comcast, and other government-granted monopolies, are hated is simple. They're monopolies. They don't have to compete on an even playing field, which means that they don't have to compete for consumers. The implications are simply--why work seriously on customer service if they have no other options? 

Where I live, Cox Communications is the cable company, and obviously offers cable internet. AT&T provides landline phone service, and offers DSL for internet. As it relates to internet, those are my ONLY two options. And AT&T has a maximum 1.5 Mbps download speed for my address. That's not a typo. I'm an engineer and I know what Mbps means. It means I don't have two options; I have one. It's Cox or effectively no internet. I'm sure that other cable or phone providers are barred by law from attempting to compete... 

Is it any surprise that I'm overpaying for internet here? I have good internet--200 Mbps download. But I pay >$100/month for that (w/o TV or anything else).

If at some point we get 5G coverage and I have access to a wireless home gateway, my guess is that it'll come in at reasonable speeds for less money than that. And at that point Cox will have to lower prices to compete. 

But for now, nobody wants to put in fixed infrastructure wired to the home, so I'm stuck waiting for wireless that won't be subject to a government-granted monopoly. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 03:55:09 PM

I've been going to France a couple times a year since 2007, I had not noticed a change over that period.  I went rarely to Europe on company business but didn't get out much.  One reason I try and avoid Paris is the number of American tourists and how fat they look often as not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 04:02:33 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 14, 2022, 03:32:04 PM

I agree with most of your rant, but not so much on this part...

The US has the best health care in the world, IMHO. That best health care actually DOES translate into better outcomes. If due to your SES and health insurance status you have access to the system, outcomes are great here.

Our health care SYSTEM is a giant charlie foxtrot, it offers horrifically unequal access to care, and I'd call the system broken--agree 100% there. But that doesn't mean that the care--if you have access--is worse.

We also have some trappings of our wealth as a society that cause worse outcomes based on worse starting points. Obesity, diabetes, etc... Sadly the poorest among us are typically the most fat because they have access to cheap calories but not healthful food. But that's a completely different issue than quality of healthcare...

I probably worded it wrong, but you're right in that respect. US has amazing, cutting edge health care for those that can afford it. We still have around 30 million people in the US without any form of health insurance. That's roughly as many people as the entire state of Texas- the second most populated state in the country.

Having said all of this, the US ranks 33 out of 36 OECD countries in infant mortality rate. And most of the rest of these sort of stats- when compared to OECD countries- well- it ain't good. US is middle of the pack or bottom in most all of them. Now, some of that as you have pointed out- might have to do with our shitty American diets- filled with fast food and sugary soda and other sugary bullsh*t- which poisons us and makes us fat and sick. 

I think the US probably needs to move to a single-payer system. There has been study after study done on this topic- which all seem to suggest that single-payer would lead to trillions in savings over the long haul and out-comes would be not much different than we have now. But any sort of single-payer system would have to allow for serious negotiating power by the gov't- which Medicare/Medicaid is barred from doing by law currently- just giving medicare to everyone won't solve the problem. Have to blow up the whole system and rebuild it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 04:05:44 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 14, 2022, 03:43:46 PM

This is true, but not as true as it was 25 years ago when I first began making regular trips to Europe.  The difference between how thin they were then, and how relatively fatter they are now, is somewhat surprising.  They're basically on the same curve we started 70 or so years ago, right after WW2.  I'm sure the proliferation of American-style fast food hasn't helped them.

I haven't been going regularly for 25 years, but I have been going to Europe every now on then- and there is no question in my mind there isn't even a comparison. The amount of fatties and the seriously obese that you see in the US when compared to Europe is f**king staggering. It's shocking really. I don't think I've ever seen one person in Europe so fat that they had to take a cart to get around a grocery store. It might exist- but I'm just saying- I've been to lot of grocery stores/markets over there- never seen anything like that. Go to any Walmart in the US right now- you'll see 10-20 people like that in an hour or two.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 04:08:19 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 14, 2022, 03:54:24 PM

Moving this over here from the Olympics thread...


The reason that Comcast, and other government-granted monopolies, are hated is simple. They're monopolies. They don't have to compete on an even playing field, which means that they don't have to compete for consumers. The implications are simply--why work seriously on customer service if they have no other options?

Where I live, Cox Communications is the cable company, and obviously offers cable internet. AT&T provides landline phone service, and offers DSL for internet. As it relates to internet, those are my ONLY two options. And AT&T has a maximum 1.5 Mbps download speed for my address. That's not a typo. I'm an engineer and I know what Mbps means. It means I don't have two options; I have one. It's Cox or effectively no internet. I'm sure that other cable or phone providers are barred by law from attempting to compete...

Is it any surprise that I'm overpaying for internet here? I have good internet--200 Mbps download. But I pay >$100/month for that (w/o TV or anything else).

If at some point we get 5G coverage and I have access to a wireless home gateway, my guess is that it'll come in at reasonable speeds for less money than that. And at that point Cox will have to lower prices to compete.

But for now, nobody wants to put in fixed infrastructure wired to the home, so I'm stuck waiting for wireless that won't be subject to a government-granted monopoly.

And this is why I hate Comcast and every monopoly out there and root for them to fail. The US gov't is suppose to block monopolies from forming or break-up them up- yet they don't do any of this. FTC virtually rubber stamps every major merger which allows these monstrosities to form and the DoJ virtually never goes after monopolies in court and breaks them up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 04:11:04 PM

How Federal Drug-Pricing Proposals Could Affect Medicaid | Commonwealth Fund (https://www.commonwealthfund.org/blog/2021/how-federal-drug-pricing-proposals-could-affect-medicaid)

The idea around Medicare not negotiating prices is to encourage drug company investment in drugs for the elderly, a sort of orphan drug situation.  

A main reason we don't have single payer is that way back in the day, companies couldn't give employees raises, so they gave us benefits in lieu of, and corporate expenses for our drug insurance was tax deductible as a business expense.  So, employer based health insurance is in effect subsidized.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 04:13:26 PM

Medicare Pays More for Drugs Than Medicaid or the VA (verywellhealth.com) (https://www.verywellhealth.com/drugs-cost-more-than-from-medicaid-or-the-va-4047440)

Medicare Pays More for Drugs Than Medicaid or the VA
Can government negotiations with pharmaceutical companies cut costs?
By 
Tanya Feke, MD (https://www.verywellhealth.com/tanya-feke-md-2318565) 
(https://www.verywellhealth.com/thmb/adSYIAqS52uueJPozuMnZJ65oAs=/80x80/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc():format(webp)/FekeNew-5949940d5f9b58d58acf0c9a.jpg)

(https://www.verywellhealth.com/tanya-feke-md-2318565)

• (http://www.facebook.com/diagnosislife)
• (https://www.linkedin.com/in/tanyafeke/)
• (https://twitter.com/tanyafeke)

(https://www.verywellhealth.com/verywell-editorial-process-4777042)
Updated on October 21, 2020
 Fact checked by 
Elaine Hinzey, RD (https://www.verywellhealth.com/elaine-hinzey-4796322)

Print 

it has been estimated that net medicine spending is set to increase from $344 billion in 2018 to $420 billion in 2023.1 Is there anything you can do to pay less for your medications? Is there any way the federal government can help?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 04:19:16 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 02:20:32 PM

I don't view it as practicable to "wipe out China" without using massive nuclear weapons, and that might wipe out more than just China.

you're probably right. I think CCP would launch off nukes before they allowed the US to just annihilate them. The US would retaliate in kind and the world would probably end. That's probably why there won't be a war- but you never know. 

I just think China is enemy number one- BY FAR and they should be the main focus. Not Russia. I believe this Russia Russia Russia sh*t is a massive waste of time and energy. You want to talk about an ideologue and true believer that is openly intent on world domination- that's that winnie the pooh looking f**kface running China- Xi Jinping. Putin is only out for himself and to make himself stupid rich and protect his little corner of the world. Xi Jinping wishes to overthrow American hegemony and make China the leader of the world and impose China's will on the rest of the world. These f**kers openly admit that. They are the real threat to the US- they make virtually f**king everything for the world, they are the second richest economy in the world, have 1.4+ billion people they brainwash and control- and they could literally force hundreds of millions of people into military service if need be in a second. There aren't even 150 million people in Russia and their economy isn't even the size of South Korea's. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 04:21:44 PM

One other issue is how the US health care market subsidizes "all others".  New developments hit here first, and our market pays for the development costs and profits, then a new drug or technique gets spread globally at much lower pricing because the company already made its nut.  They can afford to make far less profit once their R&D costs are amortized.  So, a thing like MRI hits the US first and then trickles down to Europe and Asia and is much cheaper there.  And here, the cost of an MRI can vary all over the place depending on where you go, and "we" got where we're sent.  I didn't have a choice, nor an incentive to shop around.

MRI prices in Japan are all the same no matter where you go.  We have a very bollixed system and I don't expect "Congress" to fit it, ever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 04:23:34 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 04:19:16 PM

you're probably right. I think CCP would launch off nukes before they allowed the US to just annihilate them. The US would retaliate in kind and the world would probably end. That's probably why there won't be a war- but you never know.

I consider it entirely unrealistic to think the US can somehow destroy China, except theoretically.

It's not worth a day dream.  And of course some massive nuclear attack would result in large amounts of radiation being spread just about everywhere.  Not going to happen without some mistake.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 04:24:39 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 04:11:04 PM

How Federal Drug-Pricing Proposals Could Affect Medicaid | Commonwealth Fund (https://www.commonwealthfund.org/blog/2021/how-federal-drug-pricing-proposals-could-affect-medicaid)

The idea around Medicare not negotiating prices is to encourage drug company investment in drugs for the elderly, a sort of orphan drug situation. 

A main reason we don't have single payer is that way back in the day, companies couldn't give employees raises, so they gave us benefits in lieu of, and corporate expenses for our drug insurance was tax deductible as a business expense.  So, employer based health insurance is in effect subsidized.

A) Sure, that's the idea it was sold it on- as most god awful things need a line to be sold to the public in order to pass- but in reality all it does and ever did or ever was intended for was to protect enormous big pharma profits and give zero incentive for drug companies to ever charge less. 

B) So you mean- the gov't cut a deal for corporate welfare. How shocking!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 04:36:47 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 04:21:44 PM

One other issue is how the US health care market subsidizes "all others".  New developments hit here first, and our market pays for the development costs and profits, then a new drug or technique gets spread globally at much lower pricing because the company already made its nut.  They can afford to make far less profit once their R&D costs are amortized.  So, a thing like MRI hits the US first and then trickles down to Europe and Asia and is much cheaper there.  And here, the cost of an MRI can vary all over the place depending on where you go, and "we" got where we're sent.  I didn't have a choice, nor an incentive to shop around.

MRI prices in Japan are all the same no matter where you go.  We have a very bollixed system and I don't expect "Congress" to fit it, ever.

could be wrong here, but wasn't the first MRI built in the UK?

A lot of our technology has a lot if not all of it's research and development 100% funded by the US gov't and then handed to the private sector. A good majority of our breakthroughs have had the r&d seeds planted by the public sector. The internet. GUI. GPS. Satellites. Semiconductors. Microwaves. A lot of shit came from DARPA or other US military funded programs.

Weren't these mRNA vaccines R&D basically 100% funded by DARPA/BARDA (a US gov't agency) and then effectively handed over to private sector? Why fund them and then hand them over to Moderna and Pfizer? Makes no sense to me. Gotta make sure Pfizer and Moderna make $1,000 every second in profit, apparently. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 04:36:52 PM

Big pharma profit margins really aren't that huge.

Pfizer is about 28% net margin, Procter and Gamble is about 19%, making rather prosaic stuff.  Apple is 27%.  Amazon is 7%, fairly typical for retailers.

J&J is 22%, Merck is 25%, Abbvie is 14%, Glaxo is 15%, Astrazeneca is near 0% for some reason, Lilly is 20%.

Morgan Stanley is 25%, wow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 04:41:49 PM

Moderna was founded on mRNA technology development, their stock symbol is MRNA.  They had no profits at all until COVID hit, and hardly any sales.

MRI has a LONG history of development, it was (and is) a very useful chemistry tool (called NMR), until developed for use with people.  The "N" in NMR stands for nuclear and folks didn't want that in the term even though with NMR there is no high energy radiation.

The first MRI was done in Scotland but it really was GE that brought it into commercial success.

I used NMR a lot in my youth, I thought it was super neat.  I had to stay up all night to use it though, I'd sleep in a chair while it ran and it would ding and wake me up when it finished.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 04:43:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 04:36:52 PM

Big pharma profit margins really aren't that huge.

Pfizer is about 28% net margin, Procter and Gamble is about 19%, making rather prosaic stuff.  Apple is 27%.  Amazon is 7%, fairly typical for retailers.

J&J is 22%, Merck is 25%, Abbvie is 14%, Glaxo is 15%, Astrazeneca is near 0% for some reason, Lilly is 20%.

Morgan Stanley is 25%, wow.

Lmao. Pfizer, J&J, Lilly, and Merck are all north of 20%. That is pretty high margin. Pfizer is at 28%- which is a higher margin than Apple- who have long had the most ridiculous margins you can have and oh yeah have more cash than f***king god.

Except, Apple makes phones and gadgets and toys off the backs of slave labor in China. Not essential to, you know, human life. Pfizer makes crap that we need to stay alive.

Call me f**king crazy but I feel like there should be caps on margins and profits and price controls for drug companies. Especially ones that get US gov't funded tech like mRNA vaccines handed to them- which they in turn use to make $1,000 profit every single second off of. They aren't selling gadgets and toys. They are selling essential medicines which we all need to live.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 14, 2022, 04:49:26 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 03:55:09 PM

I've been going to France a couple times a year since 2007, I had not noticed a change over that period.  I went rarely to Europe on company business but didn't get out much.  One reason I try and avoid Paris is the number of American tourists and how fat they look often as not.

Yeah I don't get to Paris much either.  It's okay but I prefer the provinces.

Since 1995 when I first started going, France and Italy and the Netherlands and Belgium, the countries I've visited most regularly, and mostly for work, have most certainly gotten fatter.  They're not US-fat and won't be for a couple more decades, but they're trending poorly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 14, 2022, 04:49:39 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 14, 2022, 03:54:24 PM

Moving this over here from the Olympics thread...


The reason that Comcast, and other government-granted monopolies, are hated is simple. They're monopolies. They don't have to compete on an even playing field, which means that they don't have to compete for consumers. The implications are simply--why work seriously on customer service if they have no other options?

Where I live, Cox Communications is the cable company, and obviously offers cable internet. AT&T provides landline phone service, and offers DSL for internet. As it relates to internet, those are my ONLY two options. And AT&T has a maximum 1.5 Mbps download speed for my address. That's not a typo. I'm an engineer and I know what Mbps means. It means I don't have two options; I have one. It's Cox or effectively no internet. I'm sure that other cable or phone providers are barred by law from attempting to compete...

Is it any surprise that I'm overpaying for internet here? I have good internet--200 Mbps download. But I pay >$100/month for that (w/o TV or anything else).

If at some point we get 5G coverage and I have access to a wireless home gateway, my guess is that it'll come in at reasonable speeds for less money than that. And at that point Cox will have to lower prices to compete.

But for now, nobody wants to put in fixed infrastructure wired to the home, so I'm stuck waiting for wireless that won't be subject to a government-granted monopoly.

Is that because they’re “granted” monopolies or because government declines to force them to allow others on their lines?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 04:49:54 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 04:41:49 PM

Moderna was founded on mRNA technology development, their stock symbol is MRNA.  They had no profits at all until COVID hit, and hardly any sales.

Right, and DARPA/BARDA (publicly funded US gov't agencies) are who funded the mRNA vaccine r&d. Moderna didn't have a pot to piss in- it was a nothing company. We wouldn't have the mRNA vaccines if not for DARPA/BARDA.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 04:52:38 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 14, 2022, 04:49:39 PM

Is that because they’re “granted” monopolies or because government declines to force them to allow others on their lines?

imo - it's a little bit of both. obviously the utility aspect - that is 100% a granted monopoly. but Comcast aren't just a utilities company anymore. they are a conglomerate with their fingers in f**king everything from music, theme parks, movie studio, tv studio, mainstream news media, streaming services - f**king everything - that aspect of Comcast - is bc the government declines to enforce monopolies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 04:54:15 PM

I think they face competition in areas like theme parks, movies, news media, etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 04:55:00 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 14, 2022, 04:49:26 PM

Yeah I don't get to Paris much either.  It's okay but I prefer the provinces.

Since 1995 when I first started going, France and Italy and the Netherlands and Belgium, the countries I've visited most regularly, and mostly for work, have most certainly gotten fatter.  They're not US-fat and won't be for a couple more decades, but they're trending poorly.

I don't think they'll ever get US fat or even close. If you go outside the main cities- you see less and less fat people. A lot of the small cities and towns in Europe flat out ban/restrict fast food joints. You really only see them in the bigger cities. You don't see fast food joints with drive-thru windows on every corner of every street in Europe like you do in the US. And I don't think you ever will. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 04:58:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 04:54:15 PM

I think they face competition in areas like theme parks, movies, news media, etc.

not really the point....and yeah, sure they face competition - from like 3 or 4 other giant media conglomerates that are also monopolies. Something like 4 or 5 media conglomerates control 90%+ of the media in this entire country. that is insane. forget that fact for a second....it's a massive conflict of interest for a tv/internet monopoly to ALSO own the movies/news media/music/streaming companies that they broadcast on their cable/internet monopoly. hello?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 14, 2022, 05:02:14 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 04:55:00 PM

I don't think they'll ever get US fat or even close. If you go outside the main cities- you see less and less fat people. A lot of the small cities and towns in Europe flat out ban/restrict fast food joints. You really only see them in the bigger cities. You don't see fast food joints with drive-thru windows on every corner of every street in Europe like you do in the US. And I don't think you ever will.

Another of our problems is just cheap processed food in grocery stores, which they have quite a bit less of (but more than they did 25 years ago).  Maybe they won't end up US-fat, but they are definitely on a downward trend.

Ever look at a crowd photo from something in the USA... say... after WW2?  I can remember one from Times Square with all sorts of folks including a lot of men in uniform, and they're all super-skinny.  Then you look at something similar from maybe the 80s and the difference is remarkable.

That's the same thing I've noticed in Europe from 1995, to 2019 (I haven't been over there since COVID, we're planning a return trip in 2023).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 05:04:39 PM

The term "mono" in monopoly means something to me.

I own a fair bit of Pfizer stock, have for a long time, it pays a decent dividend, but it has really lagged the S&P for years now.  Over 5 years, PFE is up 56%, but the S&P500 is up 89%.  I'd be better off with a simple index fund.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 05:06:41 PM

Yeah, processed food tends to be really bad, often as not, along with soft drinks, and yes, fast food.

Convenience.

It's interesting to shop at a Carrefour in France, similar to a Target a bit, but with a lot more interesting food options and offerings.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 05:08:59 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 14, 2022, 05:02:14 PM

Another of our problems is just cheap processed food in grocery stores, which they have quite a bit less of (but more than they did 25 years ago).  Maybe they won't end up US-fat, but they are definitely on a downward trend.

Ever look at a crowd photo from something in the USA... say... after WW2?  I can remember one from Times Square with all sorts of folks including a lot of men in uniform, and they're all super-skinny.  Then you look at something similar from maybe the 80s and the difference is remarkable.

That's the same thing I've noticed from 1995, to 2019 (I haven't been over there since COVID, we're planning a return trop in 2023).

100%. The processed food issue in grocery stores + American's love of soda + fast food joints on literally every corner in every town in this country = a massive obesity and diabetes epidemic that is rarely talked about. 

I think the grocery stores in Europe are starting to get more processed foods, and the bigger cities and suburbs around the big cities have more and more fast food joints popping up, and they definitely love themselves some Coca-Cola- but they have a long way to go to catch us.

US just takes everything to the extremes. I know people who only drink soda throughout their entire day - as I'm sure many of you do. And there are fast food joints on every freaking corner of every town. And now people have gotten so lazy and fat they just download apps and have their McDonalds, pizza, or taco bell delivered to them on doordash or ubereats. Not even burning the calories walking to the car and driving and walking inside anymore. We just sit on the couch and have our food sent right to our fat asses now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 14, 2022, 05:12:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 05:06:41 PM

Yeah, processed food tends to be really bad, often as not, along with soft drinks, and yes, fast food.

Convenience.

It's interesting to shop at a Carrefour in France, similar to a Target a bit, but with a lot more interesting food options and offerings.

I'm a big fan of Carrefour.  The food is interesting, and of course the wine selection and prices.  But they also sell some crazy stuff there.  I haven't been to one in years, but they used to sell these tiny cars, more like go-karts, right on the shelves of the store.  My French buddy said, "Those are for the people that lose their licenses from drunk driving.  They can still drive those."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 05:16:35 PM

When I gave my talk at a wine conference near Paris, I explained to the audience that the US Motto is:

"If some is good, more is better."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 14, 2022, 05:18:02 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 05:16:35 PM

When I gave my talk at a wine conference near Paris, I explained to the audience that the US Motto is:

"If some is good, more is better."

Nothing exceeds like excess.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 05:19:41 PM

Folks make IPAs of course, and the balanced ones are great, and then someone makes a killer IPA with more hops, and someone tops them, and so on, until you have something that tastes like turpentine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 05:21:48 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 14, 2022, 05:18:02 PM

Nothing exceeds like excess.

YOLO

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on February 14, 2022, 05:26:35 PM

Co-ops in Italy are interesting stores. Basically a full-service grocery store stuffed into the footprint of a New York bodega.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 14, 2022, 05:30:54 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 04:02:33 PM

Having said all of this, the US ranks 33 out of 36 OECD countries in infant mortality rate. And most of the rest of these sort of stats- when compared to OECD countries- well- it ain't good. US is middle of the pack or bottom in most all of them. Now, some of that as you have pointed out- might have to do with our shitty American diets- filled with fast food and sugary soda and other sugary bullsh*t- which poisons us and makes us fat and sick.

Well, there's research on this... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4856058/

The US on the aggregate sucks for infant mortality. But when you slice and dice the data, it's again more of a socioeconomic status and health care access problem than a health care problem. 

The gap between the US and other OECD countries on infant mortality is mostly driven by the American poor. Which, again, is its own problem that needs a solution, but it's not a health care problem. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 14, 2022, 08:15:08 PM

Poor people have poor diets because unhealthy food is less expensive than healthy food.

Poor pregnant women eat crap and feed their children crap, because that's the only food in the house.

(on the whole, on the average)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 14, 2022, 08:37:31 PM

I will continue to forward this every time it comes around!
STROKE: Remember the 1st Three Letters.....
S. T. R. 
STROKE IDENTIFICATION:
  
It only takes a minute to read this.

A neurologist says that if he can get to a stroke victim within 3 hours he can totally reverse the effects of a stroke...totally. He said the trick was getting a stroke recognized, diagnosed, and then getting the patient medically cared for within 3 hours, which is tough.

RECOGNIZING A STROKE

Thank God for the sense to remember the '3' steps, STR. Read and
Learn!

Sometimes symptoms of a stroke are difficult to identify. Unfortunately, the lack of awareness spells disaster. The stroke victim may suffer severe brain damage when people nearby fail to recognize the symptoms of a stroke.

Now doctors say a bystander can recognize a stroke by asking three simple questions:
S *Ask the individual to SMILE.

T *Ask the person to TALK and SPEAK A
SIMPLE SENTENCE (Coherently)
(i.e. Chicken Soup)

R *Ask him or her to RAISE BOTH ARMS.

If he or she has trouble with ANY ONE of these tasks, call emergency number immediately and describe the symptoms to the dispatcher.

  
New Sign of a Stroke --------
Stick out Your Tongue!

NOTE: Another 'sign' of a stroke is this: Ask the person to 'stick' out his tongue. If the tongue is
'crooked', if it goes to one side or the other that is also an indication of a stroke.

A cardiologist says if everyone who gets this e-mail sends it to 10 people; you can bet that at least one life will be saved.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 09:16:22 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 14, 2022, 08:15:08 PM

Poor people have poor diets because unhealthy food is less expensive than healthy food.

Poor pregnant women eat crap and feed their children crap, because that's the only food in the house.

(on the whole, on the average)

Bananas, lettuce, carrots, most fruits and vegetables....pretty cheap. Most grains like rice and dried pasta- pretty cheap. You can make pretty healthy pastas- without creams and fats and cheeses- that are very tasty pretty easily and pretty cheaply. Even the really bad for you pastas with all that crap isn't that expensive to make. And the Italians don't eat a lot of pasta- you're not meant to eat a giant bowl with over half a pound of heavy/creamy/cheesy pastas like we do here. They'll eat a decent sized, but small portion as part of a larger meal. Chicken breast, ground beef, ground pork - also plenty cheap cuts of beef. And the gov't does give out WIC pretty easily to low income women with children.

I think the real problem is one of convenience. It's way more convenient to eat cheap fast food or open highly processed junk foods out of a box and eat them or open highly processed canned/frozen foods and throw them in a microwave for a few minutes and eat them than it is to grocery shop continually for fresh produce/meats and cook.

The only time I've spent a lot of money at grocery stores is when I'm buying certain high quality free range eggs or high quality steaks or high quality shellfish like lobster or jumbo shrimp or high quality imported italian product like parmigiano-reggiano cheeses- which can cost a damn small fortune.

But most fresh produce and a lot of meat (bacon, ground pork, pork chop, chicken, ground beef, and many cuts of beef) are pretty damn affordable at most supermarkets.

A lot of the processed foods and crap aren't so cheap. Junk food is almost more pricey than the real food.

I think a big part of the problem here is the portion sizes and complete lack of exercising as well. They walk a lot in Europe. We don't do that so much here. Unless you live in New York City- you take a car everywhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 14, 2022, 09:55:42 PM

Yeah, I guess you could have cabbage soup every day and it would be cheap.

A carrot is cheap.  But how many does it take to feed a family of 4?  

Nothing is cheaper than Ramen.  Or Mac & cheese.  

Plus they need money leftover to buy lottery tickets.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2022, 09:59:38 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 14, 2022, 09:55:42 PM

Yeah, I guess you could have cabbage soup every day and it would be cheap.

A carrot is cheap.  But how many does it take to feed a family of 4? 

Nothing is cheaper than Ramen.  Or Mac & cheese. 

Plus they need money leftover to buy lottery tickets.

Idk but like 2 lb bag of carrots can't be more than $2. Can make a lot of soups and salads with that amount of carrots.

Nothing is cheaper than Ramen or Mac & Cheese, that is definitely true. But rice and dried pasta is pretty damn cheap as well. And probably a lot better for you than Ramen or Mac & Cheese- but takes way more time and effort to actually make.

The processed junk food crap like chips, cookies, cereals, cheetos, gushers, cheeze its, pop tarts, yada yada yada and ice creams and all the frozen foods really aren't that cheap. You can wind up spending a lot of money on that crap. And none of it is good for you.

LOL'd at the underlined. Funny cause it's true.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 14, 2022, 10:22:23 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 14, 2022, 09:55:42 PM

Yeah, I guess you could have cabbage soup every day and it would be cheap.

A carrot is cheap.  But how many does it take to feed a family of 4? 

Nothing is cheaper than Ramen.  Or Mac & cheese. 

Plus they need money leftover to buy lottery tickets.

lazy convenience

like buying lotto tickets

lazy and convenient

get off the couch and feed your kids something decent

yes, it takes effort

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 01:34:49 AM

remember when Trump was saying his campaign and then Presidency had been illegally spied on by his opposition? And the useless mainstream media laughed at him over it....well, turns out those assholes were very likely dead wrong (I know, what a shocker!) and he was *probably* being spied on at behest of Hillary Clinton/DNC....kind of strange you don't hear a peep about this on cable news or in the papers of record (NYT & WaPo)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m55h3vsi8-Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5usI6iMQ_w


https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1492860672627122176?s=20&t=toSViwODUy2ry3oHpOoCRA

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1492862178067685376?s=20&t=toSViwODUy2ry3oHpOoCRA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 01:42:12 AM

YUP...

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1492559317073113094?s=20&t=toSViwODUy2ry3oHpOoCRA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 01:58:00 AM

in other news that is a gut-punch to the working class, freedom, and democracy - the Canadian government is invoking the Emergencies Act - basically martial law - for the first time in the countries history - to crush what has been a completely peaceful non-violent protest by working class truckers and farmers of Canada who are sick, tired, and fed up with the draconian science-less, evidence-free based coronavirus lockdowns and mandates of the Canadian government.

https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/what-the-truckers-want

Poor bastards...they should've started protesting about race and police brutality, turned over and burned cop cars, destroyed private property, looted, started beating people senselessly for no reason, and taken over government buildings, then the government of Canada would have sang them songs and given them parades.

Oh can I just say f**k Canada. That has always been my feeling about that entire country as a whole. It's a stupid, worthless, useless country. Could totally do without it. Even their own citizens hate Canada. That's why all the ones with any money move down to South Florida. I say keep the latin immigrants, deport the god damn dirty good for nothing useless Canadians, starting with that lesbian Justin Bieber.

Oh: f**k Canada even more...

https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1493345507229511686?s=20&t=u0pMQ1_MB0dztaBsG31VMA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on February 15, 2022, 06:46:17 AM

Putin in a 2005 speech to the Russian people:

"Above all, we should acknowledge that the collapse of the Soviet Union was a major geopolitical disaster of the century," Putin said in an address to the Russian people. "As for the Russian nation, it became a genuine drama. Tens of millions of our co-citizens and co-patriots found themselves outside Russian territory. Moreover, the epidemic of disintegration infected Russia itself." (http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/mar/06/john-bolton/did-vladimir-putin-call-breakup-ussr-greatest-geop/)


In 2018 Putin said he would reverse the collapse of the USSR.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-election-putin/putin-before-vote-says-hed-reverse-soviet-collapse-if-he-could-agencies-idUSKCN1GE2TF (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-election-putin/putin-before-vote-says-hed-reverse-soviet-collapse-if-he-could-agencies-idUSKCN1GE2TF)


There are other such statements made by Putin over the years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on February 15, 2022, 07:06:10 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 01:34:49 AM

remember when Trump was saying his campaign and then Presidency had been illegally spied on by his opposition? And the useless mainstream media laughed at him over it....well, turns out those assholes were very likely dead wrong (I know, what a shocker!) and he was *probably* being spied on at behest of Hillary Clinton/DNC....kind of strange you don't hear a peep about this on cable news or in the papers of record (NYT & WaPo)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m55h3vsi8-Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5usI6iMQ_w


https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1492860672627122176?s=20&t=toSViwODUy2ry3oHpOoCRA

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1492862178067685376?s=20&t=toSViwODUy2ry3oHpOoCRA

And the House 1/6 "insurrection" investigation is by the same assholes that gave us years of "Russian collusion."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 15, 2022, 07:44:41 AM

This place is starting to look/sound like the Area 51 board....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2022, 07:56:29 AM

I wouldn't say that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 07:57:19 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on February 15, 2022, 06:46:17 AM

Putin in a 2005 speech to the Russian people:

"Above all, we should acknowledge that the collapse of the Soviet Union was a major geopolitical disaster of the century," Putin said in an address to the Russian people. "As for the Russian nation, it became a genuine drama. Tens of millions of our co-citizens and co-patriots found themselves outside Russian territory. Moreover, the epidemic of disintegration infected Russia itself." (http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/mar/06/john-bolton/did-vladimir-putin-call-breakup-ussr-greatest-geop/)


In 2018 Putin said he would reverse the collapse of the USSR.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-election-putin/putin-before-vote-says-hed-reverse-soviet-collapse-if-he-could-agencies-idUSKCN1GE2TF (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-election-putin/putin-before-vote-says-hed-reverse-soviet-collapse-if-he-could-agencies-idUSKCN1GE2TF)


There are other such statements made by Putin over the years.

Eh....that's hardly him stating any intention to restore the USSR, and he's certainly no communist ideologue.

He's just expressing an opinion that the collapse of the Soviet Union was a tragedy and a disaster, an opinion that I'm sure many people in Russia and other former Soviet states might agree with. He's also stated a hypothetical...that if he could go back in time he would reverse the collapse. That isn't evidence of any intention to restore the USSR. These sort of statements were done mostly for political effect- to invoke nostalgia and stroke the pride of a very proud Russian people.

He also said in a similar statement that it would be impossible to restore the USSR today.

Pretty weak sauce imo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 07:59:11 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 15, 2022, 07:44:41 AM

This place is starting to look/sound like the Area 51 board....

nah. this place is way cooler.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 08:03:09 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on February 15, 2022, 07:06:10 AM

And the House 1/6 "insurrection" investigation is by the same assholes that gave us years of "Russian collusion."

the 1/6 insurrection is maybe the dumbest shit ever. complete and utter waste of time. and I hate that word insurrection- such a loaded word - as if a rag tag band of around 800 unarmed toothless drunk hillbilly losers could launch an insurrection and overthrow the US gov't. LMFAO. Give me a f**king break already.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 08:04:22 AM

a violent uprising against an authority or government.

It's a pretty broad definition, and there were instances of violence obviously.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2022, 08:08:04 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 08:04:22 AM

a violent uprising against an authority or government.

It's a pretty broad definition, and there were instances of violence obviously.

I can think of one, for sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 08:08:32 AM

INSURRECTION. A rebellion of citizens or subjects of a country against its government.
     2. The Constitution of the United States, art. 1, s. 8. gives power to congress " to provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the Union, suppress insurrections, and repel invasions."
     3. By the act of Congress of the 28th of February, 1795, 1 Story's L. U. S. 389, it is provided: Sec. 1. That whenever the United States shall be invaded, or be in imminent danger of invasion, from any foreign nation or Indian tribe, it shall be lawful for the president of the United States to call forth such number, of the militia of the state, or states, most convenient to the place of danger, or scene of action, as he may judge necessary to repel such invasion, and to issue his orders, for that purpose, to such officer or officers of the militia as be shall think proper. And in case of an insurrection in any state, against the government thereof, it shall be lawful for the president of the United States, on application of the legislature of such state, or of the executive, (when the legislature cannot be convened,) to call forth such number of the militia of any other state or states, as may be applied for, as he may judge sufficient to suppress such insurrection.
     4.-2 That, whenever the laws of the United States shall be opposed, or the execution thereof obstructed, in any state, by combinations too powerful to be suppressed by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings, or by the powers vested in the marshals by this act, it shall be lawful for the president of the United States to call forth the militia of such state, or of any other state or states, as may be necessary to suppress such combinations, and to cause the laws to be duly executed; and the use of militia so to be called forth may be continued, if necessary, until the expiration of thirty days after the commencement of the then next session of congress.
     5.-3. That whenever it may be necessary, in the judgment of the president, to use the military force hereby directed to be called forth, the president shall forthwith, by proclamation, command such insurgents to [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 08:21:07 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 08:04:22 AM

a violent uprising against an authority or government.

It's a pretty broad definition, and there were instances of violence obviously.

Insurrection is a loaded word. It's a legal term that implies much more than a sporadically violent riot on government property.

And yeah, it was such a violet uprising that only 4 people died that day- all of which were the hillbilly rioters. Two rioters died of a heart attack, one rioter was a meth head tweeker that died of a meth overdose, and a fourth rioter was shot in the neck by a police officer. The Capitol police officer Sicknick that the media FALSELY claimed died because his brains got bashed in by a fire extinguisher - yeah that never happened. Medical examiners autopsy showed he died a day or two later of natural causes.

As for the "arms" they were "armed" with - baseball bat, metal flag pole, crowbars, pepper spray. Where are the guns? Armed IMPLIES guns. You don't say someone was armed when they have a baseball bat. You say they are armed when they have a freaking gat - not a bat.

It's hyperbole hysteria designed to get people worked up and sell the public on bullsh*t like an extra $2 billion in funding for the Capitol Police and an expansion of their reach and power. A completely secretive agency with no transparency to the public that is not subject to FOIA laws. Yeah, let's give them $2 billion more and have them open offices in states all over the country. Give them more power. What could possibly go wrong? They won't ever abuse new said power....whoops....looks like they've already started

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWRpNVFwacE

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 08:24:49 AM

Yes, it's a loaded term, but it's also a broad term that appears to me to be accurate.  And I know full well it's used as a political term.

One side tries to minimize the Jan 6 events and the other side tries to hype it.  That should not be a surprise.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 08:26:19 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 08:24:49 AM

Yes, it's a loaded term, but it's also a broad term that appears to me to be accurate.  And I know full well it's used as a political term.

One side tries to minimize the Jan 6 events and the other side tries to hype it.  That should not be a surprise.

I'd like to just meet in the middle and call it for what it was. That'd be nice.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2022, 08:27:07 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 08:26:19 AM

I'd like to just meet in the middle and call it for what it was. That'd be nice.

Sure would be nice.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 15, 2022, 08:28:04 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 08:08:32 AM

INSURRECTION. A rebellion of citizens or subjects of a country against its government.
    2. The Constitution of the United States, art. 1, s. 8. gives power to congress " to provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the Union, suppress insurrections, and repel invasions."
    3. By the act of Congress of the 28th of February, 1795, 1 Story's L. U. S. 389, it is provided: Sec. 1. That whenever the United States shall be invaded, or be in imminent danger of invasion, from any foreign nation or Indian tribe, it shall be lawful for the president of the United States to call forth such number, of the militia of the state, or states, most convenient to the place of danger, or scene of action, as he may judge necessary to repel such invasion, and to issue his orders, for that purpose, to such officer or officers of the militia as be shall think proper. And in case of an insurrection in any state, against the government thereof, it shall be lawful for the president of the United States, on application of the legislature of such state, or of the executive, (when the legislature cannot be convened,) to call forth such number of the militia of any other state or states, as may be applied for, as he may judge sufficient to suppress such insurrection.
    4.-2 That, whenever the laws of the United States shall be opposed, or the execution thereof obstructed, in any state, by combinations too powerful to be suppressed by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings, or by the powers vested in the marshals by this act, it shall be lawful for the president of the United States to call forth the militia of such state, or of any other state or states, as may be necessary to suppress such combinations, and to cause the laws to be duly executed; and the use of militia so to be called forth may be continued, if necessary, until the expiration of thirty days after the commencement of the then next session of congress.
    5.-3. That whenever it may be necessary, in the judgment of the president, to use the military force hereby directed to be called forth, the president shall forthwith, by proclamation, command such insurgents to [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wV_xhb5P0KM

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 15, 2022, 08:29:23 AM

https://news.yahoo.com/rioters-set-fire-federal-courthouse-162333860.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 15, 2022, 08:32:52 AM

One man’s social justice is another man’s insurrection.  

Bail them out of jail for arson and assault, or investigate them with all the full power of the US Government for over a year, for just being present. 

Depends on your party I suppose. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 08:36:21 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 08:26:19 AM

I'd like to just meet in the middle and call it for what it was. That'd be nice.

I don't expect that from partisans.  One side will minimize and the other dramatize every time.

The truth often is in the middle.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 15, 2022, 08:45:48 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 08:26:19 AM

I'd like to just meet in the middle and call it for what it was. That'd be nice.

Impossible, because of:

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 08:36:21 AM

I don't expect that from partisans.  One side will minimize and the other dramatize every time.

The truth often is in the middle.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 08:54:26 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 08:36:21 AM

I don't expect that from partisans.  One side will minimize and the other dramatize every time.

The truth often is in the middle.

I think that’s the biggest problem in this country right now. We’ve become a nation of partisan hacks who choose party loyalty over figuring out the truth. 

Vote blue no matter what. Vote red til your dead. Never seen such bad tribalism in this country. Maybe I’m way wrong. But I can’t recall.

It’s terrifying when you look at the polling. 41% of democrats thought that you had a greater than 50% chance of hospitalization if you had Covid. The actual number is less than 1%. 

76% of democrats polled thought big tech should censor more. 65% thought the GOVERNMENT should censor. 

These sort of polling numbers are kinda terrifying to me. Like how do followers of parties buy into narratives hook line and sinker so hard. Does anyone think for themselves anymore?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 15, 2022, 08:59:01 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 08:54:26 AM

I think that’s the biggest problem in this country right now. We’ve become a nation of partisan hacks who choose party loyalty over figuring out the truth.

Vote blue no matter what. Vote red til your dead. Never seen such bad tribalism in this country. Maybe I’m way wrong. But I can’t recall.

It’s terrifying when you look at the polling. 41% of democrats thought that you had a greater than 50% chance of hospitalization if you had Covid. The actual number is less than 1%.

76% of democrats polled thought big tech should censor more. 65% thought the GOVERNMENT should censor.

These sort of polling numbers are kinda terrifying to me. Like how do followers of parties buy into narratives hook line and sinker so hard. Does anyone think for themselves anymore?

You're young.  So am I, relatively speaking.  The post-Reconstruction "Solid South" was about as tribal as it gets.  My extremely conservative grandfather voted Democrat until the 1976 presidential election, out of pure party loyalty.  He finally recognized that the Democrats didn't represent his views at all and he was only undermining his own beliefs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 15, 2022, 09:03:11 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 08:54:26 AM

I think that’s the biggest problem in this country right now. We’ve become a nation of partisan hacks who choose party loyalty over figuring out the truth.

I blamed some of this on Trump
I had hoped that this would have lessened some over time and it has and will over more time

there doesn't seem to be much effort to unify or lessen this division

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 09:07:46 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 15, 2022, 09:03:11 AM

I blamed some of this on Trump
I had hoped that this would have lessened some over time and it has and will over more time

there doesn't seem to be much effort to unify or lessen this division

I blame a lot of it on Hillary Clinton as well. 

I think 2016 f**ked this country up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 15, 2022, 09:09:08 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 15, 2022, 09:03:11 AM

I blamed some of this on Trump
I had hoped that this would have lessened some over time and it has and will over more time

there doesn't seem to be much effort to unify or lessen this division

Why would you blame it on Trump?  That's part of the problem, really, if you didn't realize it was already ubiquitous before he was ever mentioned as a candidate.  It was happening long before he held office.  And unfortunately it will continue long after.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 09:18:50 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 15, 2022, 09:09:08 AM

Why would you blame it on Trump?  That's part of the problem, really, if you didn't realize it was already ubiquitous before he was ever mentioned as a candidate.  It was happening long before he held office.  And unfortunately it will continue long after.

that's true, but I feel like Trump & Hillary threw some major gasoline on the already burning fire. both of them conducted themselves pretty poorly. and Hillary did not help with her pushing the Russia nonsense- just put Trump on the offensive and made him be even more of a dbag. he's not a guy you push into a corner- he just goes into conquer the world take no prisoners full asshole mode when you do that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2022, 09:21:17 AM

I truly do not believe we are as divided as the vocal extremes on either side would have you believe.

Americans mostly all want the same things.

Frankly, I don't know what a Republican is anymore. I'm certainly not one.

Same goes for Democrats. I'm not that either.

We need a JFK or Reagan. I don't care which. Either one would be great right now - and neither would have a party.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 15, 2022, 09:22:25 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 09:18:50 AM

that's true, but I feel like Trump & Hillary threw some major gasoline on the already burning fire. both of them conducted themselves pretty poorly. and Hillary did not help with her pushing the Russia nonsense- just put Trump on the offensive and made him be even more of a dbag. he's not a guy you push into a corner- he just goes into conquer the world take no prisoners full asshole mode when you do that.

that

unfortunately, the media and the American public seemed to embrace the raging flames

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 09:44:16 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2022, 09:21:17 AM

I truly do not believe we are as divided as the vocal extremes on either side would have you believe.

Americans mostly all want the same things.

We're not, but the noisy folks on the fringes get noticed.  And the two political parties want us to be incensed.  It helps with money and volunteering.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 09:44:56 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2022, 09:21:17 AM

I truly do not believe we are as divided as the vocal extremes on either side would have you believe.

Americans mostly all want the same things.

Frankly, I don't know what a Republican is anymore. I'm certainly not one.

Same goes for Democrats. I'm not that either.

We need a JFK or Reagan. I don't care which. Either one would be great right now - and neither would have a party.

I hope you're right. And I do believe most Americans have way more in common than they have differences, and mostly want the same things.

I'd take a JFK. All day. I blame Reagan in large part for the mess this country is in right now. The complete erosion of the middle class, open assault on labor unions, deregulation of entire industries, massive tax cuts for the wealthy while bloating the federal budget and sending the federal deficit skyrocketing- all that sh*t was jump started by Reagan then kicked into overdrive by Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II. There has been no real wage increase for working people since he took office... and when Reagan became President, the United States was the largest creditor nation in the world- by before even the end of his first term the US went from largest creditor nation in the world to largest debtor nation in the world. 

Reagan for some odd reason is strangely mythologized as a great President. He wasn't. Hell of a bulls*t artist, one charming SOB, terrific public speaker/communicator and one hell of a TV actor though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 09:45:55 AM

What is meant by "complete erosion of the middle class"? 

More hyperbole?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 09:46:10 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 09:44:16 AM

We're not, but the noisy folks on the fringes get noticed.  And the two political parties want us to be incensed.  It helps with money and volunteering.

pretty simple strategy that's worked since beginning of time....divide and conquer. The two parties are largely controlled by their donor class- and they agree on most things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 09:52:44 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 09:45:55 AM

What is meant by "complete erosion of the middle class"?

More hyperbole?

I'm sorry, but how is that hyperbole? You cannot be serious right now. Do you live with your head in the sand?

Guess you must not have noticed the destruction of labor unions and millions and millions of well-paying manufacturing jobs moving off-shore from the Midwest & Northeast to Mexico, China, Vietnam, and other countries that provide cheap slave labor.

I am seriously baffled that you would even say something so stupid. It's not hyperbole at all. Take a ride through Detroit or Flint. The American middle class has been squeezed dry for 40 years and it's at a breaking point - that's why you saw a total dbag known fraudster tv reality show fake populist like Trump win a Presidential election. 40 years of that neo-liberal shit...clearly ain't working.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 15, 2022, 09:52:51 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2022, 09:21:17 AM

I truly do not believe we are as divided as the vocal extremes on either side would have you believe.

Americans mostly all want the same things.

Frankly, I don't know what a Republican is anymore. I'm certainly not one.

Same goes for Democrats. I'm not that either.

We need a JFK or Reagan. I don't care which. Either one would be great right now - and neither would have a party.

Precisely why you're not going to get one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 09:54:14 AM

If I say "that hill has completely eroded", I would be saying the hill is gone, there is no remnant.  If I said it has eroded, one could infer it's still there but smaller.

Middle class keeps its size, loses financial ground to upper-income tier | Pew Research Center (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/09/06/the-american-middle-class-is-stable-in-size-but-losing-ground-financially-to-upper-income-families/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 09:55:59 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/Oj4LP1w.png)

One reason the middle class has eroded, slightly, is they moved into the upper class, which probably is an OK thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 15, 2022, 10:05:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 09:44:16 AM

We're not, but the noisy folks on the fringes get noticed.  And the two political parties want us to be incensed.  It helps with money and volunteering.

Yes.  And I have said many times that unfortunately the people on the fridges seem to have the microphones.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 10:07:07 AM

I don't have people on my fridges.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2022, 10:07:43 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 10:07:07 AM

I don't have people on my fridges. 

Jeffery Dahmer agrees.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 15, 2022, 10:10:35 AM

I had to sit on my fridge to change the time on the clock in our kitchen last fall.  I'd loaned my ladder to the neighbor and couldn't be bothered to go fetch it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 10:12:54 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 09:55:59 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/Oj4LP1w.png)

One reason the middle class has eroded, slightly, is they moved into the upper class, which probably is an OK thing.

https://qz.com/1269172/the-epic-mistake-about-manufacturing-thats-cost-americans-millions-of-jobs/

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2016/05/11/americas-shrinking-middle-class-a-close-look-at-changes-within-metropolitan-areas/

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/

https://stonecenter.gc.cuny.edu/the-u-s-middle-class-isnt-shrinking-but-it-is-getting-squeezed-as-inequality-rises/

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2018/06/05/seven-reasons-to-worry-about-the-american-middle-class/

https://www.investopedia.com/insights/americas-slowly-disappearing-middle-class/

https://qz.com/1592826/the-middle-class-is-shrinking-generation-by-generation/

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-the-middle-class-is-shrinking-2019-04-12

https://www.oecd.org/els/soc/OECD-middle-class-2019-main-findings.pdf

https://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/

https://www.epi.org/publication/americas-slow-motion-wage-crisis-four-decades-of-slow-and-unequal-growth-2/

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/13/business/economy/middle-class-pay.html

https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/

https://www.epi.org/blog/growing-inequalities-reflecting-growing-employer-power-have-generated-a-productivity-pay-gap-since-1979-productivity-has-grown-3-5-times-as-much-as-pay-for-the-typical-worker/

https://www.vox.com/2019/5/3/18526788/worker-productivity-spikes

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/02/why-the-gap-between-worker-pay-and-productivity-is-so-problematic/385931/

https://cepr.net/this-is-what-minimum-wage-would-be-if-it-kept-pace-with-productivity/

https://www.businessinsider.com/top-1-have-more-money-than-the-middle-class-2021-10#:~:text=The%20latest%20data%20from%20the,the%20very%20top%20have%20skyrocketed.

According to the latest release on the distribution of wealth in the US from the Federal Reserve, as of the second quarter of 2021, the top 1% of Americans by income had an aggregate net worth of $36.2 trillion, edging out the aggregate net worth of the middle 60% of $35.7 trillion. That's the first time the total wealth of the top 1% has been higher than the middle 60% since the Federal Reserve began tracking this data in 1989.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/02/07/6-facts-about-economic-inequality-in-the-u-s/

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/01/09/trends-in-income-and-wealth-inequality/

the American middle class and labor unions have been bludgeoned to death for the past 40+ years. people are working more, earning about the same or less despite being more productive- while costs of housing, education, and healthcare have skyrocketed- and have had to load up on debt to make up the difference just to maintain standards of living. Average income and the average home price in the 1960s was what? What are both today? Lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 10:24:23 AM

The middle class clearly still exists, it has not eroded to nothing.  Whatever happens to the wealthy folks doesn't mean the middle class is not still very relevant and extant.

And to the extent it is SLOWLY DISAPPEARING, one reason is folks are moving on up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2022, 10:37:18 AM

What is considered middle class?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 10:41:22 AM

This is how Pew defines it, and of course there are other ways to define it, there is no one definition, as there is for poverty levels.

In our analysis, “middle-income” Americans are adults whose annual household income is two-thirds to double the national median, after incomes have been adjusted for household size. In 2016, the national middle-income range was about $45,200 to $135,600 annually for a household of three. Lower-income households had incomes less than $45,200 and upper-income households had incomes greater than $135,600 (incomes in 2016 dollars).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 10:44:51 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 10:24:23 AM

The middle class clearly still exists, it has not eroded to nothing.  Whatever happens to the wealthy folks doesn't mean the middle class is not still very relevant and extant.

And to the extent it is SLOWLY DISAPPEARING, one reason is folks are moving on up.

No. I don't think you are understanding this. Folks are not moving up. Socio-economic upward mobility in the US has been stagnant or decreasing. For decades. The middle class has virtually been relegated to serfs, living pay check to pay check- seeing no real increase in wages- and having to load up on debt to maintain living standards- all while their productivity has increased drastically while costs of living (housing, education, healthcare, cars) have skyrocketed even when you adjust for inflation. For the first time ever the younger generation will earn less and have a lower standard of living than their parents in the generation before them.

The very rich- top 1% percent and to go even further- a fraction of the 1% - the top .01% - have had enormous income gains while the middle class has seen decreasing or stagnant real income- despite making massive gains in productivity. The middle has been sucked dry and all the gains have gone to the top- and virtually none to the middle.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 15, 2022, 10:46:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 10:24:23 AM

The middle class clearly still exists, it has not eroded to nothing.  Whatever happens to the wealthy folks doesn't mean the middle class is not still very relevant and extant.

And to the extent it is SLOWLY DISAPPEARING, one reason is folks are moving on up.

Unfortunately unregulated everything more folks are not

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 10:48:44 AM

It is hyperbole to claim the middle class has eroded to nothing.  Trying to change the topic to some other metric is just moving goal posts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 10:53:35 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 10:48:44 AM

It is hyperbole to claim the middle class has eroded to nothing.  Trying to change the topic to some other metric is just moving goal posts.

I'm sorry, but it is not hyperbole at all. there has been a complete erosion. the middle have literally not gained an inch - for four decades- while costs of living have increased drastically- and have had to load up on record amounts of debt just to maintain pace and keep their standards of living. virtually all of the gains in income and wealth have gone to the top 1% and fraction of that 1%.

The United States has levels of income and wealth inequality that have literally never been seen in it's entire history. We are turning into a banana republic plutocracy. I'm sorry if you don't like that, but they are just the facts. America is a club. And you ain't in it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 10:56:55 AM

If it eroded to nothing, it wouldn't exist.  It DOES exist, still, obviously.  This is akin to chatting with OAM about the obvious.  The topic is not about wealth distribution or median income growth, it is simply whether the middle class still exists, or was COMPLETELY ERODED.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 11:01:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 10:56:55 AM

If it eroded to nothing, it wouldn't exist.  It DOES exist, still, obviously.  This is akin to chatting with OAM about the obvious.  The topic is not about wealth distribution or median income growth, it is simply whether the middle class still exists, or was COMPLETELY ERODED.

well, I'd say that their income/wealth being ground to a halt for 4 decades while costs of living skyrocket- basically means they've been completely eroded. how can you even have a middle class when one extremely small class has basically everything.

https://www.businessinsider.com/wealthiest-1-percent-stole-50-trillion-working-americans-what-means-2020-9

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 11:03:27 AM

If the ultrarich hadn't rigged the system in their favor, your annual pay would be doubled — somewhere between $48,000 and $63,000 higher per year.

That's about $1,000 or more per weekly paycheck that you could have spent in your community, invested in home improvements, or saved for a rainy day, but which instead went to the wealthiest Americans.

So if it feels like you're working harder for less money than your parents' and grandparents' generations, that's because you are.

Think about what you could do with an extra thousand dollars a week. We've all heard the statistic that nearly half of all Americans are only one $400 emergency away from catastrophe. This is why Americans don't have that $400 — that money, and much more, has gone to some rich guy's offshore bank account.

"To be clear, this is not some fantasy," and those numbers aren't hypothetical, David Goldstein said in the latest episode of "Pitchfork Economics."

"That is what you would have been earning had income distributions remained constant, and had incomes broadly continued to grow at the same rate as the GDP, as they had done in the three decades prior to 1975," he said.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 11:05:33 AM

Maybe you don't understand that reported changes in median income in the US is based on real income?   Their income didn't grind to a halt, more silliness.  The GROWTH in real median income has not gone up as fast as one would like.  And as I said, obviously however much wealth the wealthy have is irrelevant to whether we have a middle class.  It's a stupid notion.

(https://i.imgur.com/w098UDU.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 11:37:19 AM

Russia has started troop withdrawals near the Ukraine border.

Whoops! Thought they were invading any day now! Crisis actors! False flags! Alex Jones! That’s what Biden’s state department and the stenographers in mainstream media who give the state zero pushback and gleefully print it’s lies wholly unchecked have been saying for like half a year now. For months and months… INVAYYY-shun…any day now! AP Reporter Matt Lee: “yeah, ok where’s the evidence?” Gov’t: “trust us”.

Weird.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 11:40:03 AM

NATO secretary says it sees no effort of Russian de-escalation on Ukraine border | TheHill (https://thehill.com/policy/defense/594275-nato-secretary-says-it-sees-no-effort-of-de-escalation-of-russian-military)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 15, 2022, 12:01:09 PM

If Russia is "withdrawing" troops then that confirms they'd built up troops in the first place.  Not some training exercise, which of course anyone with half a brain knew was a typical Russian propaganda lie from the beginning.

And if they really do end up withdrawing troops and de-escalating the unstable situation that THEY created in the first place, that's a good thing.  Makes me wonder what concessions have been made to Putin.  Perhaps he HAS received his assurances that Ukraine will never be part of NATO, which would be fine with me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 01:39:37 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 15, 2022, 12:01:09 PM

If Russia is "withdrawing" troops then that confirms they'd built up troops in the first place.  Not some training exercise, which of course anyone with half a brain knew was a typical Russian propaganda lie from the beginning.

And if they really do end up withdrawing troops and de-escalating the unstable situation that THEY created in the first place, that's a good thing.  Makes me wonder what concessions have been made to Putin.  Perhaps he HAS received his assurances that Ukraine will never be part of NATO, which would be fine with me.

I mean, if they are conducting military exercises (which they had been doing) and never invade- even though the US propaganda machine have continued to scream for months on end that Russia invasion is imminent- any day now....trust us- and so far they've been dead wrong for months- then I don't see what the major deal is. Gathering troops and running exercises does not = invasion. I'd say it'd have been pretty smart posturing by Putin and him f**king with Ukraine to get some concessions from the US - if it works. I don't think it's completely fair to say that the unstable situation was created solely by Russia. It does take two to tango. The US most definitely has some blame in this entire fiasco.

If Russia says they are in the beginning stages of withdrawing troops- then I'm inclined to believe them. I really don't see how saying you're withdrawing troops- then proceeding to invade would help their cause any. If they pulled that sneaky shit it'd just give the US even more ammo in going after them in retaliation. I just don't see how it'd benefit them- if anything it'd hurt them.

At the end of the day, Putin is a business man. Dude is said to be worth hundreds of billions of dollars. No one has any idea how much he's really worth. War with Ukraine and pissing off the west would interfere with his business. Europe buys his gas like they are crackhead Americans buying the brand new iPhones every time a new one comes out. As much as 40% of Europe's nat gas supply comes from Russia. That NordStream2 pipeline will allow Putin to sell Europe even more energy and save him billions of dollars a year in transit fees he currently pays Ukraine for sending gas through Ukrainian territory. NordStream2 completely bypasses Ukrainian territory. No need to pay them billions in transit fees every year with that new pipeline. Guaranteed to be no Nord2 pipeline selling gas any time soon if they invade.

I'd say the US is most definitely pissed off that Europe is buying energy from Russia and isn't buying that energy from US based multi-nationals - Trump openly droned on about this. Can't say I disagree with him there- US largely pays for their defense with NATO- least they could do is buy sh*t from us. And there can be no doubt a piss-ant, corrupt, poor 3rd rate shithole like Ukraine- a country that has a GDP of about $150 billion a year- roughly the same as the US state of Arkansas (one of the poor states in 'Merica) is flaming pissed off that they would be on the verge of losing the few billion dollars a year they get from Russia in the transit fees they currently get. It's a poor corrupt shithole- one of the most corrupt countries there is- and the poorest country in Europe- and they'd be on the verge of losing around 1.33 to 2% of their annual GDP just by Russia bypassing them and not paying those transit fees.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 01:57:30 PM

Ukraine earns about $1.2 billion a year on transit fees.  I doubt that would drop to zero with NS 2.  Their GDP is about $160 billion.

Can Ukraine do without Russian gas transit fees? | Business | Economy and finance news from a German perspective | DW | 28.01.2022 (https://www.dw.com/en/can-ukraine-do-without-russian-gas-transit-fees/a-60552279)

I have read that Putin funds the Green Parties in Germany, which makes sense as they have common cause of a sort.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 02:11:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 01:57:30 PM

Ukraine earns about $1.2 billion a year on transit fees.  I doubt that would drop to zero with NS 2.  Their GDP is about $160 billion.

Can Ukraine do without Russian gas transit fees? | Business | Economy and finance news from a German perspective | DW | 28.01.2022 (https://www.dw.com/en/can-ukraine-do-without-russian-gas-transit-fees/a-60552279)

I have read that Putin funds the Green Parties in Germany, which makes sense as they have common cause of a sort. 

Their GDP is about 155 billion. This is....well, not good. They are literally the poorest country in Europe- even though they are considered part of Europe for some reason but really aren't European at all. And they earn closer to $2 billion a year in transit fees. It varies by year. Depends on how much Russia pumps through. Ukraine's transit fee deal with Russia is set to expire in just 2 years, and Ukraine is such a poor shithole (poorest country in Europe) and so hard-up and desperate for that transit fee cash that the new deal Ukraine is asking for cut rates in half and they were seeking a much longer term- 15 years. Last deal was 5 years. Russia has been sending exactly the bare minimum amount of nat gas that's been stipulated in their transit fee contract with Ukraine and not a drop more. Ukraine is also pissed at this because....well they'd be making more money the more gas Russia pumps through their territory.

With a fully operational NordStream2 in the near future and the TurkStream up and running in 2020 - Russia could completely bypass Ukrainian territory when sending energy to Europe- starving a dirt poor shit hole corrupt country that is desperate and hard up for cash of billions of dollars a year in revenue and nearly a couple percentage points of it's GDP.

https://www.intellinews.com/ukraine-asks-gazprom-to-extend-gas-transit-deal-for-15-years-227856/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 02:48:34 PM

Ukraine Invades Russia Because YOLO - Duffel Blog (https://www.duffelblog.com/p/ukraine-invades-russia?fbclid=IwAR3z7e1EHQsmkFHhfBz9SYvzXTNbCM_pu7Qsj96bCUg-Xg3I2grwV8PT9UU)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 03:15:29 PM

Winnebago's Hike 100 Is a Tiny Camper, Which Means More Options for Towing It (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/news/winnebago-hike-100-travel-trailer-camper/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR0btyHiPqWhVvFQViFeOb1pB-YW_jQTn8YTV_jjHtKERPupunkh13WNQ5s)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2022, 03:17:19 PM

Hmm, Biden and Putin have a call 48 hours ago, and suddenly Putin is "withdrawing". 

Interesting to see how people are going to spin this into "potted plant" or somesuch... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 15, 2022, 03:24:11 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2022, 03:17:19 PM

Hmm, Biden and Putin have a call 48 hours ago, and suddenly Putin is "withdrawing".

Interesting to see how people are going to spin this into "potted plant" or somesuch...

Are you implying - or getting your “ spin” in early?    

A senior Biden administration official called the Putin call "professional and substantive," but said, "There was no fundamental change in the dynamic that has been unfolding now for several weeks." 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 15, 2022, 03:44:55 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 03:15:29 PM

Winnebago's Hike 100 Is a Tiny Camper, Which Means More Options for Towing It (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/news/winnebago-hike-100-travel-trailer-camper/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR0btyHiPqWhVvFQViFeOb1pB-YW_jQTn8YTV_jjHtKERPupunkh13WNQ5s)

There are lots of small, lightweight campers on the market, designed to be towed by passenger cars and midsize SUVs.  Some are really cool, but none are really big enough for anything more than a couple.  Or maybe a couple plus a very small baby.

We had to move out of a 26' Airstream because as our kids got up to double digits, it just wasn't enough room.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2022, 03:59:59 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 15, 2022, 03:24:11 PM

Are you implying - or getting your “ spin” in early?   

A senior Biden administration official called the Putin call "professional and substantive," but said, "There was no fundamental change in the dynamic that has been unfolding now for several weeks."

No, I just find this hilarious. While I've been vocally anti-Trump, I'm not exactly pro-Biden. I generally don't think he's accomplished much of anything in the last year. 

I just find the fact that the date of the call was known, and now very shortly afterwards Putin is withdrawing, and NOBODY has touched that subject with a 10 foot pole. If a certain other politician had the call and within 48 hours the withdrawal was occurring, I guarantee people would be lining up to give him credit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 15, 2022, 04:11:04 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 15, 2022, 03:44:55 PM

There are lots of small, lightweight campers on the market, designed to be towed by passenger cars and midsize SUVs.  Some are really cool, but none are really big enough for anything more than a couple.  Or maybe a couple plus a very small baby.

We had to move out of a 26' Airstream because as our kids got up to double digits, it just wasn't enough room.

My favorite in this category is the Airstream Nest, but I'm admittedly a little biased.




(https://i.imgur.com/OsSsTWW.png)


https://www.airstream.com/travel-trailers/nest/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 15, 2022, 04:12:11 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2022, 03:59:59 PM

No, I just find this hilarious. While I've been vocally anti-Trump, I'm not exactly pro-Biden. I generally don't think he's accomplished much of anything in the last year.

I just find the fact that the date of the call was known, and now very shortly afterwards Putin is withdrawing, and NOBODY has touched that subject with a 10 foot pole. If a certain other politician had the call and within 48 hours the withdrawal was occurring, I guarantee people would be lining up to give him credit.

Good point.  

it may still happen.  The staff at the WH seems skeptical of the “ withdrawal “.   To Biden’s credit- he is not taking credit.  That’s a good sign as far as I can tell.  There are some things about him I like.    But I could say that about all of our POTUS in my lifetime.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 04:12:45 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2022, 03:17:19 PM

Hmm, Biden and Putin have a call 48 hours ago, and suddenly Putin is "withdrawing".

Interesting to see how people are going to spin this into "potted plant" or somesuch...

Biden and his administration were most definitely fanning the flames of war and talking a big game, guaranteeing a Russian invasion of Ukraine, and talking that tough guy stuff - but he and his administration were never actually going to follow through on any of it, save for a couple rounds of new sanctions on Russia. For one the American public has serious war fatigue after trillions of US tax-payer dollars wasted on 20 years of failure in Afghanistan, the disasters and destruction which our meddling caused in Libya & Syria, and almost a decade of war in Iraq- and we haven't fully left Iraq- we still have around 3,500 troops there. The vast majority of the American public and the Western European public were/are completely against any war with Russia over Ukraine. It'd be an extremely tough sell and one that he would not be able to sell to the American people, imo.

This was a game of chicken. First one to blink lost. The whole Ukraine/NATO issue was way way way way way more important to Russia than it could possibly ever be to the United States. Ukraine literally does not matter at f**king all to the United States. Country could wiped off the map tomorrow and thrown into the stone age and it would not make a bean hill of difference to the United States. They are completely irrelevant to the national, economic, or strategic interests of the United States. Just on that alone I think it was likely that the US was going to cave and blink first. Ukraine at the end of the day just doesn't mean anything to us- so f**k 'em.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 15, 2022, 04:16:59 PM

meanwhile Canada has suspended civil rights because of the violent protesters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBz2cLX-NMM

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 04:23:57 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2022, 03:59:59 PM

No, I just find this hilarious. While I've been vocally anti-Trump, I'm not exactly pro-Biden. I generally don't think he's accomplished much of anything in the last year.

I just find the fact that the date of the call was known, and now very shortly afterwards Putin is withdrawing, and NOBODY has touched that subject with a 10 foot pole. If a certain other politician had the call and within 48 hours the withdrawal was occurring, I guarantee people would be lining up to give him credit.

wouldn't have ever gotten to this point with Trump imo. Trump was at least trying to get along with Putin- even while he was imposing sanctions to block the NordStream2 pipeline (sanctions which the Biden admin lifted) and even while he was very correctly pointing out and very publicly slamming and shaming EU leaders & countries for buying Russian energy and not American energy- when America largely pays/funds their defense via NATO. 

Biden was very reckless in allowing relations with Russia to deteriorate to this point and the idiots he had talking tough and leaking bs and propaganda to the media was only inflaming tensions, not cooling them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 04:28:34 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 15, 2022, 04:16:59 PM

meanwhile Canada has suspended civil rights because of the violent protesters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBz2cLX-NMM

yeah posted about this earlier. 

WILD, CRAZY, scary sh*t. It literally blows my mind what is happening in Canada right now. Canada is no longer a free country.  Not that they truly ever were- and most of the "West" isn't truly free. 

Thank F**KING GOD we live in the United States. As f**ked up as we can be, as many problems as we have as a nation, and as f**ked up as the shit our CIA/State Dept./DoD/war-machine does around the world to other people- there isn't a country in the world that protects it's own citizens rights and freedoms like the good Ol' USofA. That 1st amendment and those bill of rights- the founders of this country were some SMART motherf**ckers. That's all I have to say on this topic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 15, 2022, 04:36:02 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 04:28:34 PM

yeah posted about this earlier.

WILD, CRAZY, scary sh*t. It literally blows my mind what is happening in Canada right now. Canada is no longer a free country.  Not that they truly ever were- and most of the "West" isn't truly free.

Thank F**KING GOD we live in the United States. As f**ked up as we can be, as many problems as we have as a nation, and as f**ked up as the shit our CIA/State Dept./DoD/war-machine does around the world to other people- there isn't a country in the world that protects it's own citizens rights and freedoms like the good Ol' USofA. That 1st amendment and those bill of rights- the founders of this country were some SMART motherf**ckers. That's all I have to say on this topic.

yep

hell in the USA after they burn and loot we still bail them out of jail so they can do it again

unless of course youre a republican then youre lucky if you even see a trial

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 15, 2022, 04:37:36 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 04:28:34 PM

That's all I have to say on this topic.

I highly doubt THAT is true. ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 15, 2022, 04:38:27 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 15, 2022, 04:37:36 PM

I highly doubt THAT is true. ;)

Im a doubter also

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2022, 04:50:21 PM

[color=rgba(17,24,39,var(--tw-text-opacity))]LOS ANGELES, CA—In a brilliant move showing their intelligence and street smarts, both of which were definitely not acquired in the public school system, L.A.U.S.D. students dressed up as celebrities attending the Super Bowl this morning so they wouldn't have to wear a mask to school. Students donned attire making them appear to be miniature versions of Martha Stewart, Ryan Reynolds, Will Ferrell, and more big-name celebrities, hundreds of whom attended the packed football game yesterday without a mask in sight. "Sorry, teach -- you can't make me wear that," said one girl who now resembled Miley Cyrus. "I'm rich and famous and I'm above your rules." One smart student dressed up as Gavin Newsom himself, so he was allowed to wear no mask, dine indoors, and even given a private lunch party at an exclusive lunch table just for him, while everyone else had to wear masks and sit six feet apart.[/color]

[color=rgba(17,24,39,var(--tw-text-opacity))]There is hope for the future after all![/color]

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2022, 04:52:29 PM

INGLEWOOD, CA—A who's who of LA elite, many of whom have been vocal advocates of mask mandates, appeared to be huge hypocrites on Sunday as they cheered on the Rams at Super Bowl LVI while maskless. However, they were quick to assure everyone that they had been wearing high-tech invisible masks only rich people know about.

"No, we were totally wearing masks! They're just... um, invisible. They use... um, top-secret invisibility technology only rich people know about," explained Lebron James to a tearful child who has never known a life without masks.

Lebron James, crypto-miner Matt Damon, and director Ben Affleck were just a few of the celebrities who had access to the invisible masks. Damon, who previously starred in Elysium, a film about a ruling class who doesn't share their life-saving medical equipment, was reportedly oblivious to the irony.

"Now don't forget to mask up and get vaccinated! We're all in this together," chimed in a laughing J.Lo, also wearing a high-tech invisible mask.

When asked if the invisible masks will be made available to common people, Jennifer Lopez became offended. "I put on my diamond-studded pants the same as everyone else, one leg at a time!"

Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti was also in attendance and appeared to be unmasked but confirmed he didn't need a high-tech one as he can hold his breath for over four hours.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 15, 2022, 04:54:15 PM

Mask mandates are still a thing?  Who knew?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2022, 04:56:43 PM

Today the CA statewide indoor mask mandate expired and isn't being extended by Newsom.

Los Angeles County is keeping theirs, though...

...not that anyone actually wore one at the Super Bowl.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 15, 2022, 05:08:46 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 15, 2022, 04:36:02 PM

yep

hell in the USA after they burn and loot we still bail them out of jail so they can do it again

unless of course youre a republican then youre lucky if you even see a trial

Because you're murdered first?

(The flippancy of anti-bail rhetoric is always fascinating, and sometimes illuminating, to me)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 15, 2022, 05:10:40 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 15, 2022, 05:08:46 PM

Because you're murdered first?

(The flippancy of anti-bail rhetoric is always fascinating, and sometimes illuminating, to me)

talking about 1/6 protesters still in jail with no trial in sight

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 15, 2022, 05:14:03 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 15, 2022, 04:12:11 PM

Good point. 

it may still happen.  The staff at the WH seems skeptical of the “ withdrawal “.  To Biden’s credit- he is not taking credit.  That’s a good sign as far as I can tell.  There are some things about him I like.    But I could say that about all of our POTUS in my lifetime. 

My hot political take: Give pols mostly blame, primarily for being windbags, little credit, and believe that most great shifts in our world are not on the shoulders of those glory hogs. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 06:08:47 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 15, 2022, 04:37:36 PM

I highly doubt THAT is true. ;)

yeah, I'm spent man. Lol. As much as I love visiting Europe and other parts of the world, this is the only place I would ever live. 

Rest of the world isn't free. UK doesn't have freedom of the press or freedom of speech. France wields pretty heavy censorship of it's internet- and France also reguarly puts people in jail for denying the holocaust. Obviously these people are coocoo - but should they be in jail for having insane stupid opinions? Hummm...no. Australia's government (and especially it's immigration policies) have long been pretty god damn insane- people have just been catching on now bc of the crazy COVID restrictions. Canada well- you're seeing that shitshow unfold in real time. 

This is the best place to be a citizen and live by a pretty wide margin if you ask me. 'MERICA. F**K YEAH!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 06:11:46 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 15, 2022, 05:10:40 PM

talking about 1/6 protesters still in jail with no trial in sight

I read that folks charged with Federal crimes rarely get bail, and the 1/6 protesters got bail over twice as frequently as the average.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 06:13:25 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 15, 2022, 05:10:40 PM

talking about 1/6 protesters still in jail with no trial in sight

I'd say they are more rioters or even violent rioters or trespassing rioters or property destroyers- moreso than protestors or even insurrectionists....but your point stands. Federal gov't is being pretty awful and abusing it's power and throwing the book and then some at most of these idiots. It's not a good look.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 06:18:32 PM

Revealed: majority of people charged in Capitol attack aren’t in jail | US Capitol attack | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/28/us-capitol-attack-suspects-jail-trial)

At least 70% of people charged in the Capitol riot have been released as they wait for trial, according to a Guardian analysis.

That high pre-trial release rate stands in stark contrast with the usual detention rates in the federal system, where only 25% of defendants nationwide (https://www.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/data_tables/jb_h14_0930.2019.pdf) are typically released before their trial.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 06:25:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 06:11:46 PM

I read that folks charged with Federal crimes rarely get bail, and the 1/6 protesters got bail over twice as frequently as the average.

maybe, but a lot of the sentences were pretty god damn extreme. the punishment needs to fit the crime. take the QAnon Shaman guy Jacob Chansley - prosecutors were trying to give him 51 months - he was sentenced to 41 months - nearly 3.5 years in a federal prison.

DoJ admitted in court that Chansley did not commit any violence towards anyone - yet they had him locked away in solitary confinement for 10 months - a judge denied him bail 3 times-  prosecutors tried to get a sentence of 51 months - and ultimately was sentenced to 41 months (3.5 years) in federal prison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsaaZz41n6U

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 15, 2022, 06:27:38 PM

What's the average time-to-trial for defendants in the federal system?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 06:30:09 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 15, 2022, 06:27:38 PM

What's the average time-to-trial for defendants in the federal system?

and call me naive, but aren't most federal charges a lot more serious than a bunch of jerk off rioters trespassing on and smashing gov't property windows and doors?

like, don't the feds typically go after and arrest the heavy hitter criminals? crime bosses, gang members, drug cartels, drug dealers, serial killers, serial rapists, and other grade A psychopaths.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 15, 2022, 06:34:02 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 06:30:09 PM

and call me naive, but aren't most federal charges a lot more serious than a bunch of jerk off rioters trespassing on and smashing gov't property windows and doors?

like, don't the feds typically go after and arrest the heavy hitter criminals? crime bosses, gang members, drug cartels, drug dealers, serial killers, serial rapists, and other grade A psychopaths. Trump voters

FIFY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 15, 2022, 06:45:09 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 15, 2022, 06:27:38 PM

What's the average time-to-trial for defendants in the federal system?

https://www.uscourts.gov/statistics/table/na/federal-court-management-statistics/2021/09/30-3

depends on district, but at a glimpse seems to be somewhere between 8-24 months, with a median around 13-15ish. that's from filing to disposition. from the definitions section, for criminal trials it's from indictment to a not guilty verdict or sentencing if guilty. given that vast majority of trials are 3-5 days or less and that sentencing is typically done within 3 months, you could maybe knock off a month or so on average.

edit: also like to point out, most of them weren't arrested until late feb at the earliest. and a large % weren't until the summer. so we haven't yet made it to the 12-13-ish months yet for vast majority of them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 15, 2022, 06:57:02 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 06:30:09 PM

and call me naive, but aren't most federal charges a lot more serious than a bunch of jerk off rioters trespassing on and smashing gov't property windows and doors?

like, don't the feds typically go after and arrest the heavy hitter criminals? crime bosses, gang members, drug cartels, drug dealers, serial killers, serial rapists, and other grade A psychopaths.

it wasn't just some gov storage building or warehouse. it was the capitol building with sitting congressmen and women in the middle of performing one of the most important aspects of our government.

besides, most that just went in a walked around are being given light sentences (criminal trespassing with probation or something). as of last month, median jail time was 45 days, with 25% serving no jail time. the big sentences are coming for those that either attacked police or had obvious intent to harm.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 15, 2022, 06:58:22 PM

What happened to Buffalo Dude?  He looked like a real terror.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 15, 2022, 07:00:16 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 15, 2022, 06:57:02 PM

it wasn't just some gov storage building or warehouse. it was the capitol building with sitting congressmen and women in the middle of performing one of the most important aspects of our government.

THIS THIS THIS FUCKING THIS

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 07:01:06 PM

Rape is not Federal neither is murder usually

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 15, 2022, 07:03:35 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 15, 2022, 06:58:22 PM

What happened to Buffalo Dude?  He looked like a real terror.

shirtless warpaint dude? he plead guilty to obstruction of official proceedings and got 41 months i think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 15, 2022, 07:06:48 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 15, 2022, 07:03:35 PM

shirtless warpaint dude? he plead guilty to obstruction of official proceedings and got 41 months i think.

Good.  He looked like a real threat to society.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2022, 07:11:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 07:01:06 PM

Rape is not Federal neither is murder usually

SERIAL interstate is. FBI has jurisdiction there. at least in the movies....they do....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 15, 2022, 07:21:59 PM

the act of crossing state lines can bring the FBI into play


theres a famous story of sme folks robbing a Lake Tahoe casino

The Casino was actually in Nevada but when the robbers left they ran through the door that put them in California hence the FBI was called in

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 15, 2022, 08:06:50 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2022, 03:59:59 PM

No, I just find this hilarious. While I've been vocally anti-Trump, I'm not exactly pro-Biden. I generally don't think he's accomplished much of anything in the last year.

I just find the fact that the date of the call was known, and now very shortly afterwards Putin is withdrawing, and NOBODY has touched that subject with a 10 foot pole. If a certain other politician had the call and within 48 hours the withdrawal was occurring, I guarantee people would be lining up to give him credit.

I agree with you, Sir.  I just wish there was a treasonous lt.col there in this case too, as we'll never know what the fee was, nor the extra handling fee left over for them 'boys.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 15, 2022, 08:10:45 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 07:01:06 PM

Rape is not Federal

Can be if you cross state lines. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 15, 2022, 08:11:25 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 15, 2022, 07:00:16 PM

THIS THIS THIS FUCKING THIS

But it was okay and just protesting citizens during the Kavanaugh confirmation.  

...... in not saying I support it, mind you.  I condemn both... as I condemn the rioting the summer prior... saying one was okay and others weren't is nothing but political BS... without the propaganda of the media telling either side what to support and what not to, this wouldn't even be a topic. 

And... its divisive BS like that and this which purposely keeps Americans from taking pause and suddenly waking up- waking up startled at what has become. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 15, 2022, 08:34:56 PM

It's divisive to compare 100 women yelling a lot to an actual storming of the Capitol building, resulting in 5 deaths.

The only reason it wasn't an actual coup attempt is that they were a bunch of retards without a plan - a dog that caught the car and didn't know what to do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 15, 2022, 08:40:39 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 15, 2022, 08:34:56 PM

It's divisive to compare 100 women yelling a lot to an actual storming of the Capitol building, resulting in 5 deaths.

The only reason it wasn't an actual coup attempt is that they were a bunch of retards without a plan - a dog that caught the car and didn't know what to do.

100 women???  Where have you been? How about the systematic burning and looting of several cities.

I also condemn the 1/6 riot but the difference of how these two situation have been handled screams politics

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 15, 2022, 08:53:31 PM

https://news.yahoo.com/rioters-set-fire-federal-courthouse-162333860.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 15, 2022, 08:55:04 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 15, 2022, 08:34:56 PM

It's divisive to compare 100 women yelling a lot to an actual storming of the Capitol building, resulting in 5 deaths.

The only reason it wasn't an actual coup attempt is that they were a bunch of retards without a plan - a dog that caught the car and didn't know what to do.

1 death.  Unarmed Republican Ashley Babbit shot in the neck. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 16, 2022, 12:15:42 AM

1. 
Got it.
So a heart attack while frothing at the mouth because you thought the election was stolen doesn't count.
And killing yourself 3 days or 6 days after allowing the Capitol to be breached under your watch doesn't count, either.









Got it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 16, 2022, 12:17:06 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 15, 2022, 08:40:39 PM

100 women???  Where have you been? How about the systematic burning and looting of several cities.

The Kavanaugh hearing caused this?

Honestly, you need correcting so often, it's a full-time job.  You should pay me money.  
I actually feel guilty for picking on you now.  

Jesus Christ.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 16, 2022, 02:18:34 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 16, 2022, 12:15:42 AM

1. 
Got it.
So a heart attack while frothing at the mouth because you thought the election was stolen doesn't count.
And killing yourself 3 days or 6 days after allowing the Capitol to be breached under your watch doesn't count, either.









Got it. 

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/11/how-many-died-as-a-result-of-capitol-riot/

The world of Fro.  Talk about a blind minion. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 16, 2022, 03:08:23 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 15, 2022, 08:34:56 PM

It's divisive to compare 100 women yelling a lot to an actual storming of the Capitol building, resulting in 5 deaths.

The only reason it wasn't an actual coup attempt is that they were a bunch of retards without a plan - a dog that caught the car and didn't know what to do.

Well, let's see...

Im just a dumbass country boy, but the way I figure it, it was either an attempted insurrection as only leftist see it, or like your assessment, a bunch of "retards" without a plan... lacking the plan part, it can't be both...

Next time don't try to manipulate your audience in the same breath with more than one accusation at a time.  Subversion only works with people armed with more than half a brain one step at a time.  And subversion is underming truth by ye ol webster- truth, in this instance being the authority- so that accusation is accurate.  See how it works?  I called you a dumbass and pointed out your conflating subjects in effort to undermine your position... THATs how it's done.  If I hadn't told you ya likely won't have noticed, huh? 

Now imagine what somebody who ain't just a dumbass country boy woulda done to you? 

I flap my gums a lot.  A51 is a shock jock show- but has come to my consideration maybe some of those participants believe everything they say?  Maybe... maybe not... but it doesn't matter because we'll all toss a beer back and talk smack about something else when in company.  Yet, that ain't the point.... the point is if people REALLY believe either side isn't FoS, and both aren't leveraging to manipulate their audience- as you have here- they're not smart enough to matter in discussions like this... expected south of here... but not here. 

There was no freaking attempted insurrection.  Police brutality and violence against police is real.  Theyre entwined.  Imagine that?  Cnn and the likes lie- its their coin... so does fox.  I don't hate you and I don't hate anyone for the color of their skin or what language they speak- and that is almost every dumbass country boy I know, too. 

DIFFERENCES?  Sure... we ought to celebrate them instead of demonize others... we ought to lead ourselves at as local a level we can without interference from folks far flung places with disassociated notions of what's proper amd so long as they don't stomp on individual liberties.  But no... we have folks bought into divisive politics and who've welded them to identity instead. 

Wanna fix things?  Start there.  This isn't war, yet, where your will or mine is forced on someone else... yet, that's what's happening and war is what we'll get if it goes much further.  That may sound fine and dandy to some, but those are the clowns who think someone actually wins.  Governments amd people manipulating divisive tools win.  We don't. 

We're better.  I still hold out hope for that, but I'm losing faith with ALL our elected to make it happen. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2022, 04:37:46 AM

Crossing state lines to avoid prosecution if the Federal charge, not the rape or murder (with exceptions).

I recall some of the Jan 6 folks sentenced plea bargained and accepted their sentences.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2022, 04:48:21 AM

New York Times Misses the Point(s) on Surging Traffic Deaths (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39097140/new-york-times-misses-the-points-on-surging-traffic-deaths/?utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR2A5m4WIflkcWTMgOvbl5blTzdW-hBpVyrlLBYvALDoYfdPXEw1yXQfxZI)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2022, 07:46:20 AM

‘QAnon shaman’ Jacob Chansley is sentenced to 41 months in prison- POLITICO (https://www.politico.com/news/2021/11/17/qanon-shaman-jacob-chansley-sentence-522807)

Nonbinding federal sentencing guidelines called for between 41 and 51 months in prison for Chansley on the felony obstruction count he pleaded guilty to.

Watkins asked in a written pleading that Chansley receive a sentence “significantly below” that range, but prosecutors urged Lamberth to impose a sentence at the top end of that range, 51 months. They rejected arguments that he was a “peaceful” participant in the Jan. 6 mob.

“If the defendant had been peaceful on that day, Your Honor, we would not be here,” Assistant U.S. Attorney Kimberly Paschall said.


Was the sentence "fair"?  I don't know enough about the case to venture a guess other than it seems harsh in general.  But he did plead guilty, and the judge gave him the lowest sentence in the guidelines.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2022, 08:10:26 AM

Any arrests for this one?

50 Secret Service agents injured in White House riots as Donald Trump is taken to 'terror attack' bunker (thesun.co.uk) (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11752998/trump-secure-bunker-friday-george-floyd-protests-white-house/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 16, 2022, 08:21:51 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 16, 2022, 04:37:46 AM

Crossing state lines to avoid prosecution if the Federal charge, not the rape or murder (with exceptions).

I recall some of the Jan 6 folks sentenced plea bargained and accepted their sentences.

That's usually the case. 

I'd venture that the vast majority of the folks involved in all that got punished somewhat in line with how things usually go. Probably on the lighter side of most federal defendants because most didn't do anything notably violent or possess large quantities of illegal substances or something. Some also probably complicated things by acting unsocialized and insisting their lawyers say they didn't recognize the court's authority or mouthing off on social media/text that they were there to do violence. 

And then there's the fact that when most people actually observe the mechanics of the criminal justice system was it relates to someone they don't want to see thrown away for years by default, they're struck by how Byzantine and unfair the whole thing is. Plus you have screamers on both sides, shading in the edges by explaining this is a travesty of justice, either becuase it was far too harsh or far too lenient. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 16, 2022, 08:25:56 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2022, 08:10:26 AM

Any arrests for this one?

50 Secret Service agents injured in White House riots as Donald Trump is taken to 'terror attack' bunker (thesun.co.uk) (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11752998/trump-secure-bunker-friday-george-floyd-protests-white-house/)

More than 300 that day, not sure about in the following days.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2022, 08:49:40 AM

The 5 Most Common Federal Crimes For Everyday Citizens (bruceudolf.com) (https://www.bruceudolf.com/the-5-most-common-federal-crimes-for-everyday-citizens/)

#1 – Immigration
You probably wouldn’t expect it, but immigration remains the most common federal crime charged by the U.S. Attorney every year. According to statistics from the 2018 fiscal year 2018, the U.S. Sentencing Commission keeps track of federal convictions and charges. According to their report, released in June 2019, immigration crimes make up 34.4% of all federal crimes.
#2 – Drug Crimes 
While this is a broad category, the fact is drugs accounted for 28.1% of all federal charges brought against defendants in 2018. This includes everything from possession to delivery and trafficking. In the federal court system, even minor possession of drugs can become a federal offense if it is committed on federal property or if there is transportation across state lines.
#3 – Firearms 
The third most common category of federal crimes involves guns. Because there is an entire federal agency devoted to tracking down illegal arms dealing and firearms crimes, this should come as little surprise. The Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) arrests. With more than 2,500 agents, the ATF brought over 7,000 cases to prosecution in 2019 alone.
#4 – Fraud/Theft/Embezzlement 
This category of crimes includes everything from employees who conspire to defraud and steal from national corporations to people engaged in illegal scams that may be done online or across state borders.
#5 – Sex Crimes 
Though the report separately classifies child pornography and sexual abuse, there is another category for “other crimes” which makes up 9.2% of all crimes. Many of these are sex-related crimes as well. Sex crimes in general account for a significant portion of federal indictments, roughly 3-5%.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2022, 08:50:52 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 16, 2022, 08:25:56 AM

More than 300 that day, not sure about in the following days.

Any prosecutions?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 16, 2022, 08:52:58 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2022, 08:10:26 AM

Any arrests for this one?

50 Secret Service agents injured in White House riots as Donald Trump is taken to 'terror attack' bunker (thesun.co.uk) (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11752998/trump-secure-bunker-friday-george-floyd-protests-white-house/)

As we all know- that riot was openly being encouraged by high ranking members of a political party as well as mainstream media. In fact- it was being celebrated- and those causing the violence at OUR White House were being made to look like victims, when the national guard took steps to defend themselves. 

again, one man’s insurrection is another man’s social justice.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 16, 2022, 09:09:08 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 16, 2022, 08:25:56 AM

More than 300 that day, not sure about in the following days.

Where are seeing that?

all I can find is 6 arrests.  

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/31/politics/trump-underground-bunker-white-house-protests/index.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 16, 2022, 09:11:23 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2022, 08:50:52 AM

Any prosecutions?

This is something I do not have the answer to. One would assume some. 

I do remain impressed by the depth of our tribal nature in all this. It's an act that if ideologies didn't align would have folks on this board calling for folks to be shot. But when they do, here we are.

(I find myself torn about what I think should happen to those folks. On one hand it is a house of the people, and if we can separate what it means from it just being an office building, probably fine to consider it just property. On the other, if you roll in with the threat of violence to stop the democratic process, I do take a dim view of that, and in a vacuum, most of society does as well)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2022, 09:12:55 AM

for the record, I do not support riots of any sort. That includes January 6. It should have never happened, and hopefully will never happen again.

But, it probably will.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 16, 2022, 09:16:16 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 16, 2022, 09:09:08 AM

Where are seeing that?

all I can find is 6 arrests. 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/31/politics/trump-underground-bunker-white-house-protests/index.html

I saw this? 

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/dc/300-arrests-in-dc-after-mondays-protests/65-5865be46-d649-48e3-b778-e043c65cd183

The six number comes from the secret service, which to a degree makes sense. They're not a big outfit focused on arrests, and it sounds like they didn't engage folks until after it quieted down, to a degree. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 16, 2022, 09:34:04 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 16, 2022, 09:11:23 AM

This is something I do not have the answer to. One would assume some.

I do remain impressed by the depth of our tribal nature in all this. It's an act that if ideologies didn't align would have folks on this board calling for folks to be shot. But when they do, here we are.

(I find myself torn about what I think should happen to those folks. On one hand it is a house of the people, and if we can separate what it means from it just being an office building, probably fine to consider it just property. On the other, if you roll in with the threat of violence to stop the democratic process, I do take a dim view of that, and in a vacuum, most of society does as well)

I think most people here, from what I can ascertain, just want perpetrators of any violence to be discouraged and prosecuted regardless of the cause.  And you have to be honest with yourself and admit that that has not been the case.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 16, 2022, 09:56:22 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2022, 08:50:52 AM

Any prosecutions?

One key difference is that most of the non 1/6 people rioting wore masks and didn't film themselves and post it on Facebook.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 16, 2022, 09:58:23 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on February 16, 2022, 09:56:22 AM

One key difference is that most of the non 1/6 people rioting wore masks and didn't film themselves and post it on Facebook.

Yet there were still 300 arrests made per bab's link.  Seems like that's a pretty ripe pool for prosecutions, should one choose to follow through on such activity.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 16, 2022, 09:58:45 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 16, 2022, 09:11:23 AM

This is something I do not have the answer to. One would assume some.

I do remain impressed by the depth of our tribal nature in all this. It's an act that if ideologies didn't align would have folks on this board calling for folks to be shot. But when they do, here we are.

(I find myself torn about what I think should happen to those folks. On one hand it is a house of the people, and if we can separate what it means from it just being an office building, probably fine to consider it just property. On the other, if you roll in with the threat of violence to stop the democratic process, I do take a dim view of that, and in a vacuum, most of society does as well)

this is where i tend to be as well. the tribal divide is kinda amazing, in a disturbing way. generally solid logical people have rationalized these events into something else simply due to their allegiances.

as for the rioters/protestors/insurrectionists/etc. i also tend to agree with what you said. for the vast majority, a misdemeanor with probation or very short jail sentence should suffice as enough of a deterrent. but for those with weapons (very few), zip ties, maps, riot/military gear, nooses, etc. they should be handled under the fullest extent of the law possible.

the crowd overall didn't have a coherent "plan". most were just following the crowd and things got out of hand.

but a select few most definitely had a plan. multiple different groups had very detailed plans. some even communicated and coordinated with each other, though quite poorly. and yes, that includes some of the politicians in the building and watching in a tent. and if we can't step back, evaluate facts, and admit that, then we're blinded by our tribal allegiances.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 16, 2022, 10:04:10 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 16, 2022, 09:58:23 AM

Yet there were still 300 arrests made per bab's link.  Seems like that's a pretty ripe pool for prosecutions, should one choose to follow through on such activity.

(1) most of those people were arrested for violating curfew and (2) no matter how many people are arrested, you still need to have evidence to prosecute a crime. Hardly any 1/6 people were arrested at the time. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 16, 2022, 10:05:01 AM

Quote

Quote

rioters/protestors/insurrectionists/etc.

One of these things is not like the others

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 16, 2022, 10:05:01 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 16, 2022, 09:58:23 AM

Yet there were still 300 arrests made per bab's link.  Seems like that's a pretty ripe pool for prosecutions, should one choose to follow through on such activity.

most of those arrests were violation of curfew, which is generally "prosecuted" with a fine, much like a speeding ticket. but most likely the majority were probably dropped in favor of an informal "probation" agreement not to do it again. similar to a warning ticket.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 16, 2022, 10:05:37 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on February 16, 2022, 10:05:01 AM

One of these things is not like the others

very true. tried to catch all sides descriptions, though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 16, 2022, 10:09:34 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on February 16, 2022, 10:04:10 AM

(1) most of those people were arrested for violating curfew and (2) no matter how many people are arrested, you still need to have evidence to prosecute a crime. Hardly any 1/6 people were arrested at the time.

There were reportedly 50 secret service members injured.  If they didn't manage to arrest any of those people at the time, then that's a failure for the LE agencies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 16, 2022, 10:20:16 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 16, 2022, 10:09:34 AM

There were reportedly 50 secret service members injured.  If they didn't manage to arrest any of those people at the time, then that's a failure for the LE agencies.

there were 150+ le members injured on jan 6. took a month+ for most arrests there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 16, 2022, 11:10:58 AM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 16, 2022, 10:20:16 AM

there were 150+ le members injured on jan 6. took a month+ for most arrests there.

Yeah.  Those are both bad things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 16, 2022, 11:17:07 AM

On the pulse side, people are doing a better job of putting their crimes online. Makes everything smoother in the end. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2022, 11:18:32 AM

People are stupid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 16, 2022, 11:20:48 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 16, 2022, 11:17:07 AM

On the pulse side, people are doing a better job of putting their crimes online. Makes everything smoother in the end.

Yup.  And if they don't post it for themselves, someone else often posts it for them.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 16, 2022, 11:21:52 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2022, 11:18:32 AM

People are stupid.

Our perpetual condition. 

What’s not stupid is the chorizo burrito I plan to get this week. Excited for it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 16, 2022, 11:31:51 AM

Anyone have a robot vacuum? Costco has a Shark on sale and I might get it. Not sure how well they work.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 16, 2022, 11:54:42 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 16, 2022, 11:21:52 AM

Our perpetual condition.

What’s not stupid is the chorizo burrito I plan to get this week. Excited for it.

Just a straight-up chorizo burrito?  Or chorizo+other stuff?  Curious minds want to know.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 16, 2022, 12:23:08 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on February 16, 2022, 11:31:51 AM

Anyone have a robot vacuum? Costco has a Shark on sale and I might get it. Not sure how well they work.

My friends have one. It seems fine. Collects hairs/crumbs and whatnot. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2022, 12:24:29 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on February 16, 2022, 11:31:51 AM

Anyone have a robot vacuum? Costco has a Shark on sale and I might get it. Not sure how well they work.

I don't care for them much. It really didn't work very well.

We just have a regular shark now, which works great.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 16, 2022, 12:24:38 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 16, 2022, 11:54:42 AM

Just a straight-up chorizo burrito?  Or chorizo+other stuff?  Curious minds want to know.

I mean, other stuff like the normal burrito ingredients. It’s from a place where I usually get tacos, so it’s a bit of the unknown. (What I do know is most everyone there is speaking Spanish, which seems like a good start)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 16, 2022, 12:27:03 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 16, 2022, 11:21:52 AM

Our perpetual condition.

What’s not stupid is the chorizo burrito I plan to get this week. Excited for it.

Chorizo breakfast burritos are the best breakfast burritos. I had one yesterday morning... 

I blame thank the egg lobby.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 16, 2022, 12:27:58 PM

I don't think a tiny little Roomba could keep up with the shedding golden retriever... My Dyson can barely keep up running multiple times a week.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2022, 12:32:41 PM

My wife has a Roomba and it "works" to pick up light crumbs and whatnot.  I notice she rarely uses it any more.

You have to spend time cleaning its innards, which is more time than just using a regular vac I think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 16, 2022, 12:33:16 PM

Chorizo and scrambled eggs might be the first meal I ever learned to make for myself.  Pretty much every Sunday morning, I'd wake up to the smell of my dad browning chorizo and then scrambling eggs into it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2022, 12:35:18 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 16, 2022, 12:33:16 PM

Chorizo and scrambled eggs might be the first meal I ever learned to make for myself.  Pretty much every Sunday morning, I'd wake up to the smell of my dad browning chorizo and then scrambling eggs into it.

Sounds good.

Minus the eggs, of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on February 16, 2022, 12:36:33 PM

Dealing w McKinsey & Co. For significant time for first time.... their lexicon and manner of speaking is so brutal, insufferable.   Every biz speak cliché comes out within an hour.    They seem incapable of talking like real people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 16, 2022, 12:37:34 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on February 16, 2022, 11:31:51 AM

Anyone have a robot vacuum? Costco has a Shark on sale and I might get it. Not sure how well they work.

we have one. i hate it, wife loves it. it works reasonably well for its intended purpose. i hate it cause she turns it on remotely while she's getting ready for bed and i'm watching tv. the little bastard is loud.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 16, 2022, 12:39:30 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2022, 12:35:18 PM

Sounds good.

Minus the eggs, of course.

I mean, the eggs are a pretty important part of the dish named "scrambled eggs and chorizo."

I make a dish that I call "Pig-stuffed pig-wrapped pig" that you might like.  It's a pork tenderloin, stuffed with chorizo, and wrapped in bacon.  I like to BBQ mine but you can bake it or grill it, too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 16, 2022, 12:39:48 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2022, 11:18:32 AM

People are stupid.

what's that carlin quote? something along the lines of "think of how stupid the average person is, and now think that half the population is dumber than that." a true poet 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 16, 2022, 12:43:56 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 16, 2022, 12:39:30 PM

I mean, the eggs are a pretty important part of the dish named "scrambled eggs and chorizo."

there's been quite a debate about the necessity of certain items in certain foods around here. _{shudders in remembrance of the great chili debate}

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2022, 12:53:13 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 16, 2022, 12:43:56 PM

there's been quite a debate about the necessity of certain items in certain foods around here. _{shudders in remembrance of the great chili debate}

There is no chili debate.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2022, 01:03:22 PM

Is there a chili lobby

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 16, 2022, 01:04:15 PM

I like chili with scrambled eggs, too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 16, 2022, 01:09:08 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 16, 2022, 01:04:15 PM

I like chili with scrambled eggs, too.

of course you do its in the bylaws of being a Texan

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 16, 2022, 01:23:24 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 16, 2022, 12:39:30 PM

I mean, the eggs are a pretty important part of the dish named "scrambled eggs and chorizo."

I make a dish that I call "Pig-stuffed pig-wrapped pig" that you might like.  It's a pork tenderloin, stuffed with chorizo, and wrapped in bacon.  I like to BBQ mine but you can bake it or grill it, too.

Oooh, that sounds good. 

Do you simply slit the tenderloin down the middle to stuff the chorizo in the middle? Or do you try to actually cut it and pound it thinner to make a roulade? 

Do you brown the chorizo first? I assume so?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 16, 2022, 01:37:41 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 16, 2022, 01:23:24 PM

Oooh, that sounds good.

Do you simply slit the tenderloin down the middle to stuff the chorizo in the middle? Or do you try to actually cut it and pound it thinner to make a roulade?

Do you brown the chorizo first? I assume so?

I slit it and pound it out a little, but still just fold over and toothpick it back together, which also helps to hold the bacon onto the outside.  But doing a full roulade would likely work well and would distribute the filling more evenly  throughout-- I've thought about doing that but haven't ever taken the time to bother.

And yes brown the chorizo first, I also include some finely chopped onion and jalapeno and saute in with the chorizo, and then usually a little bit of cheese (whatever I have lying around but the strong flavor of gruyere works well here and it's one of my favorite cheeses) before layering onto the meat as the filling.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2022, 01:58:28 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 16, 2022, 01:37:41 PM

I slit it and pound it out a little, but still just fold over and toothpick it back together, which also helps to hold the bacon onto the outside.  But doing a full roulade would likely work well and would distribute the filling more evenly  throughout-- I've thought about doing that but haven't ever taken the time to bother.

And yes brown the chorizo first, I also include some finely chopped onion and jalapeno and saute in with the chorizo, and then usually a little bit of cheese (whatever I have lying around but the strong flavor of gruyere works well here and it's one of my favorite cheeses) before layering onto the meat as the filling.

I know I'm injecting some German or Cuban into this, but some sliced pickles would rock inside this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 16, 2022, 02:01:23 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2022, 01:58:28 PM

I know I'm injecting some German or Cuban into this, but some sliced pickles would rock inside this.

You must be an agent of the pickle lobby.  I absolutely loathe pickles.

But, some diced up apple or pear or apricot works really well in the filling.  Those fruits are always great with pork.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2022, 02:08:14 PM

Pickles are fruits too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 16, 2022, 02:13:17 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2022, 02:08:14 PM

Pickles are fruits too.

(https://i.imgur.com/BFghDrt.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 16, 2022, 02:16:41 PM

my son wont eat pickles mushrooms or tomatoes 

I consider myself a failure as a parent 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 16, 2022, 03:03:10 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 16, 2022, 02:16:41 PM

my son wont eat pickles mushrooms or tomatoes

I consider myself a failure as a parent

My son used to not like tomatoes, onion, or cilantro...

...but loved salsa. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 16, 2022, 05:53:33 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 16, 2022, 03:03:10 PM

My son used to not like tomatoes, onion, or cilantro...

...but loved salsa.

I was a picky eater as a child. Then I got to college and was embarrassed to be picky in front of people. 

Turned out, there's a lot of good food out there. More than Pizza. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2022, 06:02:24 PM

I first had pizza when I was 16.  I first had Mexican in college.  My Dad was an extremely boring and picky eater, so we were as well.

I like good pickles, but not the ones Aunt Bee made.

Fixing spaghetti sauce at the moment.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2022, 06:04:28 PM

What's wrong with the sauce that you have to fix it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 16, 2022, 06:22:14 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2022, 06:04:28 PM

What's wrong with the sauce that you have to fix it?

it's not fully assembled.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 16, 2022, 06:22:50 PM

The egg lobby is not the point. 

It's the stupid idea that there is breakfast food and non-breakfast food.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2022, 06:45:52 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 16, 2022, 06:22:50 PM

The egg lobby is not the point.

It's the stupid idea that there is breakfast food and non-breakfast food. 

This is exactly what the egg lobby wants us to believe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 16, 2022, 06:49:24 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 16, 2022, 06:22:50 PM

It's the stupid idea that there is breakfast food and non-breakfast food. 

I agree with this.  Foods should not be discriminated against based on something completely arbitrary like the position of the hands on a clock.  They should be liberated of this artificial construct.

#FreeTheFoods!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2022, 06:51:15 PM

I don't see it any kind of "big deal", eat what you want, or eat what you traditionally have eaten.  I imagine most of us have coffee in the morning, not tea very much, coffee.

My wife makes a kind of smoothie each morning.  I cut up some of the fruit for it.  It works.  And if we walk about I can get all sorts of non-egg breakfast items.

Like grits.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 16, 2022, 06:55:29 PM

Seems like grits by themselves are treated as a breakfast food, but if you turn them into a more complicated dish, like Shrimp N Grits, then they become a lunch or dinner food.  But you're unlikely to find shrimp n grits on a breakfast menu.

It makes no darn sense at all.

#FreeTheFoods!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2022, 07:01:55 PM

I make grits on occasion with something added, bacon maybe, or cheese, etc.  But grits usually is for breakfast.  I'm OK with that.  Back in the day, it was a way to pack on calories for the workday ahead and was a method of preserving corn.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 16, 2022, 07:14:32 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 16, 2022, 06:22:50 PM

The egg lobby is not the point.

It's the stupid idea that there is breakfast food and non-breakfast food. 

You're saying the place near me that serves affordable and filling "breakfast" burritos needs to stop cutting that off at 11? I AGREE. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2022, 07:18:50 PM

I thought the all powerful egg lobby WAS the point, but they of course infiltrate this site to make it seem they aren't.

They are pernicious.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 16, 2022, 07:31:08 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 16, 2022, 07:14:32 PM

You're saying the place near me that serves affordable and filling "breakfast" burritos needs to stop cutting that off at 11? I AGREE.

Exactly! Even McDonalds will let you get "breakfast" food all day now. 

Because stoners who wake up at 2 PM need to get their McMuffin on. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 16, 2022, 07:33:38 PM

Just got a phishing email stating that I had won a "Facebook Lottery" and was due $350,000...

The response email was for a gmail address... 

FFS, scammers... You gotta try harder than that!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 16, 2022, 07:45:59 PM

In Ohio we fry our grits

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 16, 2022, 08:28:45 PM

Damn right, um hum. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 16, 2022, 08:44:14 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/EG1uKjn.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 16, 2022, 09:07:33 PM

Yes!  But the sentence "breakfast all day" is asinine.  It's just food.

Like "baby names," it's nonsensical.  They're just names.  Those babies grow up.  

McDonalds should offer their full menu all day.  There's absolutely no reason to stop offering some items at a certain time and offer other items afterwards.

Eat bacon & eggs at 4pm.  Eat chinese food at 7am.  

That's all I'm saying....and at the moment, you can't.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 16, 2022, 10:31:22 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 16, 2022, 09:07:33 PM

Eat bacon & eggs at 4pm.  Eat chinese food at 7am. 

That's all I'm saying....and at the moment, you can't. 

As a person who has had pizza, tikka masala and possibly Chinese for breakfast in the past six months, I disagree. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 16, 2022, 10:47:02 PM

Profit is the number one decision maker for any restaurant as to what and when it offers a product for sale

Leading restaurant companies are continuously studying their product mix to take advantage of where hidden profits may be

They may even employ third parties to take surveys and or study groups to determine what might be a profitable change to their menu

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 17, 2022, 12:00:56 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 16, 2022, 10:31:22 PM

As a person who has had pizza, tikka masala and possibly Chinese for breakfast in the past six months, I disagree.

You're right, your sample size of 1 overrules the vast majority of the society.

Boy, was I wrong!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 17, 2022, 12:16:33 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 16, 2022, 09:07:33 PM

Yes!  But the sentence "breakfast all day" is asinine.  It's just food.

Like "baby names," it's nonsensical.  They're just names.  Those babies grow up. 

McDonalds should offer their full menu all day.  There's absolutely no reason to stop offering some items at a certain time and offer other items afterwards.

Eat bacon & eggs at 4pm.  Eat chinese food at 7am. 

That's all I'm saying....and at the moment, you can't. 

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 16, 2022, 10:31:22 PM

As a person who has had pizza, tikka masala and possibly Chinese for breakfast in the past six months, I disagree.

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 17, 2022, 12:00:56 AM

You're right, your sample size of 1 overrules the vast majority of the society.

Boy, was I wrong!

You made a definitive statement that it can't be done. Not that it's uncommon. Can't.

And when you make that statement, a single counterexample refutes you.

Maybe don't rely on "always", "never", "can't", "must" statements when referring to things with uncommon but not impossible counterexamples???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2022, 06:56:22 AM

Of all the things I'd love to be able to change, this isn't on the list.

One can always cook meals at home.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 17, 2022, 07:56:38 AM

If I were to go to McD's (or anywhere else) and had a choice between an egg muffin or a burger, the burger wins every time, at all times.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2022, 08:05:08 AM

I like McD's for breakfast, but not for other meals.

They often have a sausage biscuit for a buck, and senior coffee.  We stop when we're traveling.  We used to go to one near us fairly often in Cincy, but there are none near us now, and the one we could drive to is said to be awful.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2022, 08:09:59 AM

There is a "nice" little cafe near us that does a nice breakfast, but they are SLOW, we've about stopped going.  The lady who runs it can't find workers, so her kids often are there manning both register and cooking.  I don't blame them for being slow but it's painful, and a shame, as it's a nice place overall, and a block away with outdoor seating, and it should be 74°F here today.

Our winter is mostly over, we probably will have two more cold snaps.  Some trees are budding and the bulbs are coming out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 17, 2022, 08:21:07 AM

They keep the break room so stalked with granola and string cheese that I haven't had breakfast or lunch in months.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on February 17, 2022, 08:52:57 AM

When I was working at MnDOT surveys, there was a McDonalds at the freeway exit at which I exited to go to the main shop. I ate a lot of those $1 sausage McMuffins.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 17, 2022, 08:57:22 AM

Don't mind the McMuffin,never have liked the biscuit,dry and crumbles - kind of sux when you're on the run.I've always liked BK's Breakfast Croissant not that I indulge either that much

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2022, 09:09:30 AM

Does the network reverse course now? 

CNN and the rest of WarnerMedia is in the process of being spun off by its corporate owner, AT&T. Assuming that deal goes through, those properties will then merge with Discovery Inc. 
But longtime media mogul and Discovery board member John Malone caused a stir back in November when he told CNBC, “I would like to see CNN evolve back to the kind of journalism that it started with — and actually have journalists, which would be unique and refreshing.” 
CNN is also readying a streaming service, CNN+, for launch. Zucker was central to that project, but he had also recruited some broadcasters who represent a break with the opinionated anti-Trump approach — notably Chris Wallace (https://thehill.com/people/christopher-chris-wallace), formerly of Fox News, and Kasie Hunt, formerly of NBC News. 

Five unanswered questions on the crisis at CNN  | TheHill (https://thehill.com/homenews/media/594634-five-unanswered-questions-on-the-crisis-at-cnn)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 17, 2022, 09:20:29 AM

Here ya go, 'Fro.

21 Egg Recipes to Master, According to Chefs | Food & Wine (foodandwine.com) (https://www.foodandwine.com/cooking-techniques/best-egg-recipes-according-chefs?did=740223-20220216&utm_campaign=faw-the-dish_newsletter&utm_source=foodandwine.com&utm_medium=email&utm_content=021622&cid=740223&mid=79878984463&lctg=65149265)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2022, 09:28:48 AM

More than 80% of consumers are paying above sticker price for new car (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/17/more-than-80percent-of-consumers-are-paying-above-sticker-price-for-new-car.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 17, 2022, 09:33:08 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 17, 2022, 07:56:38 AM

If I were to go to McD's (or anywhere else) and had a choice between an egg muffin or a burger, the burger wins every time, at all times.

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 17, 2022, 08:05:08 AM

I like McD's for breakfast, but not for other meals.

Same... I rarely go to McDonald's for lunch/dinner, but I'll go for breakfast. Sausage McMuffin w/egg, hash brown, and some of their delicious coffee is a great start to the day. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 17, 2022, 09:37:37 AM

Not sure CNN can really go back, they've lost the trust of so many people, I doubt they'll ever be taken seriously again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 17, 2022, 09:44:02 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 16, 2022, 09:07:33 PM

Yes!  But the sentence "breakfast all day" is asinine.  It's just food.

Like "baby names," it's nonsensical.  They're just names.  Those babies grow up. 

i really enjoy things like this. redundant phrases.

hot water heater. it's just a water heater, or maybe a hot water container.

past history. new born baby. prepay in advance. new innovations. repeat again. atm machine. rip in peace. unexpected surprise.

i agree with the breakfast food stuff. i will say, though, certain items are much better consumed at certain times. this is, of course, personal opinion and i won't fault anyone who disagrees.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 17, 2022, 09:48:39 AM

pretty severe weather coming for southeast today. i guess everyone else is just freezing their asses off with the winter storm that's pushing this on us. y'all be safe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 17, 2022, 09:52:49 AM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 17, 2022, 09:48:39 AM

pretty severe weather coming for southeast today. i guess everyone else is just freezing their asses off with the winter storm that's pushing this on us. y'all be safe.

Are you in Alabama?

Gonna be 88 here here in SWFL today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 17, 2022, 09:53:19 AM

Upper 60s and sunny for us today, brrrrrrr!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2022, 09:55:33 AM

VIN number

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 17, 2022, 09:56:06 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 17, 2022, 09:52:49 AM

Are you in Alabama?

Gonna be 88 here here in SWFL today.

yes. supposed to be pretty bad around 3-8ish this afternoon. schools shutting down and it ain't snowing, so must mean tornadoes expected.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2022, 10:04:43 AM

Ethanol at the Gas Pump May Be Hurting Air Quality, Study Says (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a39113868/ethanol-at-the-gas-pump-study/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&fbclid=IwAR2VIrDaD4wmBBO9Xyw8s6YVWkFXeiYpbBxviIH8RulpFIH-jpT6dcGFec8)

I view this as one of the very worst government programs that cannot die for obvious reasons.  It's well understood it's awful on many fronts, and yet Iowa.

And of course the government mandated we'd move to cellulosic ethanol which has been a complete flop, and yet the mandates remain, ignored.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2022, 10:08:26 AM

When I was working, there was interest in "biopolyethylene", PE is the most common form of plastic.  The deal was to make cellulosic ethanol and then ethyene and then PE.  It would have the same properties as PE, but not come from petroleum sources.  OK, fine.  But cellulosic ethanol has flopped, I THOUGHT it might work in Brazil from bagasse as that already gets collected, but that largely flopped as well.

This was to be part of our program to source PE from something other than petroleum and be "green".  Flop flop flop.

And it was largely predictable.  It's akin to making fuel from algae, it has a number of very obvious major issues.  But it makes nice PR.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2022, 10:11:41 AM

Cargo Ship Carrying Porsches and VWs Is Burning in the Atlantic (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39120715/cargo-ship-with-porsches-and-vws-burning/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&fbclid=IwAR1zg-nI_Gprt52XixftlxCp6HYbsBxNxiIycUA0p-D3PjXwr9RXK3cQV2E)

Welp.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2022, 10:16:04 AM

Senate Responds to Threat of Russian Invasion of Ukraine with Strongly Worded Statement | Military.com (https://www.military.com/daily-news/2022/02/16/senate-responds-threat-of-russian-invasion-of-ukraine-strongly-worded-statement.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1jUAyyE1hpDno6xM06RV9CvfZBmu2cZb1_UIQjLWMjkYSiNoz5Q2q6nGg#Echobox=1645027887)

Aliens (1986) - Harsh Language/Close Encounters (Frost and Hicks Quotes) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i33DX9Wjd7E)

"What the hell are we supposed to use, man? Harsh language?"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2022, 10:26:58 AM

College football defenses finally claw back as some offensive averages reach lowest points in a decade - CBSSports.com (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-defenses-finally-claw-back-as-some-offensive-averages-reach-lowest-points-in-a-decade/?fbclid=IwAR39sjIqXOiLN_IKlZJ7x6J6o86zaXNElKo7QIJgYWWIIrkbrdC5GkhXEB8)

 For only the second time in CFP history, four teams that finished in the top 20 in total defense faced off. A defensive lineman finished second in Heisman Trophy voting for the first time in 41 years. 

Conversely, in 2021, the previously defensive-minded SEC led the country with its teams averaging almost 31 points per game. Still, the champion from that league, Georgia, will be known for winning it all in with defense. The 10.2 points per game allowed by the Dawgs were the fewest nationally since Alabama gave up 8.2 in 2011.  (Of course, UGA did not win the SEC.)

If explosive games plays win games, there has to be something to be said for limiting those plays. Georgia finished in the top 20 in plays allowed of at least 10 yards, 20 yards and 30 yards.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2022, 11:31:30 AM

2022 VW Golf R Shoppers: Stick With the GTI (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a39111399/vw-golf-r-shoppers-stick-with-the-gti/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&fbclid=IwAR3YKucCYQdMGil1jKkj7Oegg0wjx5_VF4RxJSEVJapWIpJlmF2-s8gR21E)

Couldn't read the article, but this is where I came out in 2018.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2022, 11:33:28 AM

SB players by conference:

CONFERENCEPLAYERS
SEC  25
Big Ten  21
ACC  14
Pac-12  12
Big 12  11
FCS or lower7
AAC5
Conference USA5
Mountain West5
Independent2

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 17, 2022, 12:07:09 PM

So freaking sad! Oakland Hills country club in Southeast Michigan. Home of US opens, PGA championships, Ryder Cup, and US women’s open. So much history and memorabilia lost.

(https://i.imgur.com/2mcroQh.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 17, 2022, 12:20:20 PM

Terrible.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on February 17, 2022, 12:26:44 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 17, 2022, 11:33:28 AM

SB players by conference:

CONFERENCEPLAYERS
SEC  25
Big Ten  21
ACC  14
Pac-12  12
Big 12  11
FCS or lower7
AAC5
Conference USA5
Mountain West5
Independent2

Wonder if Von Miller counts as SEC or Big 12?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 17, 2022, 12:31:19 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 17, 2022, 12:07:09 PM

So freaking sad! Oakland Hills country club in Southeast Michigan. Home of US opens, PGA championships, Ryder Cup, and US women’s open. So much history and memorabilia lost.

wow that sucks. how did that happen?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2022, 12:31:33 PM

In my experience, E Trade is the worst possible.  I have Schwab but my former company put some stuff on ET, I just sold off the last remaining vestiges, after finally figuring out how to do it.  Then they send duplicate reports to the IRS which causes problems for me.

I've been with Schwab over 40 years.  They don't screw up like this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 17, 2022, 12:32:54 PM

Quote from: Gigem on February 17, 2022, 12:26:44 PM

Wonder if Von Miller counts as SEC or Big 12? 

that's 107 players and only 53 man rosters allowed (i think), so maybe they counted him, and only him, for both?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2022, 12:38:01 PM

Original Chick-fil-A Chicken Sandwich 'Birthplace' Reopens February 17 | What Now Atlanta 2022 (https://whatnowatlanta.com/original-chick-fil-a-chicken-sandwich-birthplace-reopens-february-17/)

It was called the Dwarf House back in the day for whatever reason.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 17, 2022, 12:49:50 PM

https://twitter.com/olgatokariuk/status/1494325742582128657?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1494325742582128657%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Folgatokariuk%2Fstatus%2F1494325742582128657

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 17, 2022, 01:01:17 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 17, 2022, 12:31:19 PM

wow that sucks. how did that happen?

Still fighting it. Not sure yet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 17, 2022, 01:01:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 17, 2022, 12:31:33 PM

In my experience, E Trade is the worst possible.  I have Schwab but my former company put some stuff on ET, I just sold off the last remaining vestiges, after finally figuring out how to do it.  Then they send duplicate reports to the IRS which causes problems for me.

I've been with Schwab over 40 years.  They don't screw up like this.

I too use Schwab

I dont use all their fancy tools but they get the job done when I need it

Their customer service is decent

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2022, 01:17:07 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/nP5cZgI.png)

The Fokker F.II, KLM’s first passenger aircraft, was presented at Schiphol Airport in 1920, on the same day that KLM transported its first passengers from London to Amsterdam. There was room for four passengers, who were seated in a closed cabin, while the pilot sat out in the open air. This single-engine plane had a range of 1,200 kilometres and a maximum speed of 150 km/h over land and 120 km/h over sea. The wings were made of wood, whereas the fuselage and tail were made of steel tubing covered with linen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2022, 01:21:10 PM

"The final key to the way I promote is bravado. I play to people's fantasies. People may not always think big themselves, but they can still get very excited by those who do. That's why a little hyperbole never hurts. People want to believe that something is the biggest and the greatest and the most spectacular. I call it truthful hyperbole. It's an innocent form of exaggeration—and a very effective form of promotion."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 17, 2022, 01:25:23 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 17, 2022, 01:21:10 PM

"The final key to the way I promote is bravado. I play to people's fantasies. People may not always think big themselves, but they can still get very excited by those who do. That's why a little hyperbole never hurts. People want to believe that something is the biggest and the greatest and the most spectacular. I call it truthful hyperbole. It's an innocent form of exaggeration—and a very effective form of promotion."

I liked The Art of the Deal so hes more right then wrong

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2022, 01:47:40 PM

A transistor is a device that regulates current or voltage flow and acts as a switch or gate for electronic signals. Transistors consist of three layers of a semiconductor material, each capable of carrying a current.
The transistor was invented by three scientists at the Bell Laboratories in 1947, and it rapidly replaced the vacuum tube as an electronic signal regulator. A transistor regulates current (https://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/current) or voltage flow and acts as a switch or gate for electronic signals. A transistor consists of three layers of a semiconductor (https://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/semiconductor) material, each capable of carrying a current. A semiconductor is a material such as germanium and silicon (https://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/silicon-Si) that conducts electricity in a "semi-enthusiastic" way. It's somewhere between a real conductor such as copper and an insulator (like the plastic wrapped around wires).
The semiconductor material is given special properties by a chemical process called doping. The doping results in a material that either adds extra electrons to the material (which is then called N-type for the extra negative charge carriers) or creates "holes" in the material's crystal structure (which is then called P-type because it results in more positive charge carriers). The transistor's three-layer structure contains an N-type semiconductor layer sandwiched between P-type layers (a PNP configuration) or a P-type layer between N-type layers (an NPN configuration).
A small change in the current or voltage at the inner semiconductor layer (which acts as the control electrode) produces a large, rapid change in the current passing through the entire component. The component can thus act as a switch, opening and closing an electronic gate many times per second. Today's computers use circuitry made with complementary metal oxide semiconductor (CMOS) technology. CMOS uses two complementary transistors per gate (one with N-type material; the other with P-type material). When one transistor is maintaining a logic state, it requires almost no power.
Transistors are the basic elements in integrated circuits (IC), which consist of very large numbers of transistors interconnected with circuitry and baked into a single silicon microchip

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 17, 2022, 02:08:21 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 17, 2022, 08:05:08 AM

I like McD's for breakfast, but not for other meals.

They often have a sausage biscuit for a buck, and senior coffee.  We stop when we're traveling.  We used to go to one near us fairly often in Cincy, but there are none near us now, and the one we could drive to is said to be awful.

Agree 100%. McD breakfast is surprisingly good. The rest of their food….pretty much trash. Although their new “made to order cooked on a flat top, fresh never frozen” Quarter Pounder actually pretty decent. Probably the only thing on their entire menu that actually tastes like real beef. Their other stuff tastes like freeze dried cardboard run through a microwave.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 17, 2022, 02:13:04 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 17, 2022, 09:37:37 AM

Not sure CNN can really go back, they've lost the trust of so many people, I doubt they'll ever be taken seriously again.

Agree. Never say never, but CNN’s rating have fallen off a cliff and not sure it’s possible to regain trust once you lose it. CNN’s top show can’t even crack a million viewers. 

Their steaming service is a joke. No one watches cnn when it’s free. Why they think they could start charging $5 or $10 a month and get subscribers is beyond me. 

ONLY shot that streaming service would have is if the new head honcho Malone fires Don Lemon, Brian Stetler, and every other buttplug that works there and starts over- and then try and poach independent streamers and broadcasters with big followings. Only shot in hell they’d have.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 17, 2022, 02:20:57 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 17, 2022, 01:25:23 PM

I liked The Art of the Deal so hes more right then wrong

The Art of the Deal is the greatest business book ever written...

...well, according to a certain person :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 17, 2022, 02:27:02 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 17, 2022, 02:20:57 PM

The Art of the Deal is the greatest business book ever written...

...well, according to a certain person :57:

true

self confidence is not one of his problems

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2022, 03:34:58 PM

The U.S. is spending billions to keep money-losing nuclear plants open (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/17/the-us-is-spending-billions-to-keep-money-losing-nuclear-plants-open.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2022, 03:36:34 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/Rx5GImi.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 17, 2022, 07:26:58 PM

First theatre night in ~2 years tonight... Going to see Wicked. Wife has seen it, but it'll be the first time for me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 17, 2022, 07:30:54 PM

I liked it a lot.  Have fun enjoying The Theater...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 17, 2022, 10:56:52 PM

i haven't had fast food in years, perhaps only two or three times in a couple decades

but, I guy that I will be travelling with for business says we WILL be stopping for Taco John's on Tuesdays

He's a good guy and drinks as much as I, so I'll go along with it.   For a while...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 18, 2022, 07:25:19 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 17, 2022, 01:25:23 PM

I liked The Art of the Deal so hes more right then wrong

Your quote from the book you're supporting is him saying it's okay to lie.

I think that's perfect.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 07:29:50 AM

It's a rare salesman who doesn't present a biased version of "truth".  And probably an unemployed one.

Caveat emptor.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 18, 2022, 07:39:30 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 17, 2022, 10:56:52 PM

i haven't had fast food in years, perhaps only two or three times in a couple decades

but, I guy that I will be travelling with for business says we WILL be stopping for Taco John's on Tuesdays

He's a good guy and drinks as much as I, so I'll go along with it.  For a while...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYNoQZ5djUA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 09:21:18 AM

5 Types of Cast Iron and Their Uses [with Composition & Properties] - Engineering Learn (https://engineeringlearn.com/types-of-cast-iron-and-their-uses-with-composition-properties/)

(https://i.imgur.com/8guAeri.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 09:29:20 AM

London’s smallest microflat up for sale at £50,000 for 7 square metres | London | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/feb/17/londons-smallest-microflat-up-for-sale-at-50000-for-7-square-metres?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2-gDJIKvynQSjBLcE3nmbGi5W5L3uwRXBq0R6lHB6KEaqCIYkUEf9GUd0#Echobox=1645113545)

(https://i.imgur.com/v9eYDup.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 09:44:44 AM

Some diplomats and other leaders gathered in Munich had broached the idea that Putin could opt to dig in for a long siege with everything short of ordering troops over the border — cyberattacks, assassinations, coup plots, cutting off trade — in hopes of toppling the Ukrainian government without triggering sanctions, reported David Sanger of The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/17/us/politics/blinken-russia-ukraine-predictions.html). Russia’s enthusiasm today for sudden nuclear exercises is perhaps an example. 

The Hill's Morning Report - One day, two continents, words of war | TheHill (https://thehill.com/homenews/morning-report/594867-the-hills-morning-report-Biden-Ukraine-Russia-Trump-family)

This is what I've thought it the most likely scenario going forward.  It's better than one alternative.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 18, 2022, 09:50:20 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 09:29:20 AM

London’s smallest microflat up for sale at £50,000 for 7 square metres | London | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/feb/17/londons-smallest-microflat-up-for-sale-at-50000-for-7-square-metres?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2-gDJIKvynQSjBLcE3nmbGi5W5L3uwRXBq0R6lHB6KEaqCIYkUEf9GUd0#Echobox=1645113545)

(https://i.imgur.com/v9eYDup.png)

Could never get my sno blower in there,no thanx

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 10:07:33 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 09:44:44 AM

This is what I've thought it the most likely scenario going forward.  It's better than one alternative.

Well sure, it's what Putin's already been doing for the past 8 years.

The question is, why spend all the money for this recent large military build-up along the Ukrainian border at all?  Clearly he's pushing for something different, something new.  What's his goal?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 10:10:23 AM

Negotiating leverage, and I'm not sure this really is a "massive buildup", it is a buildup, but as you note he's had tens of thousands of troops stationed near Ukraine for years.  Perhaps he wanted to get them noticed by moving 20,000 or so to a forward position.  They have to be somewhere, so the expense is in building quarters for them nearer Ukraine.  So, it's a gambit, and also provides him with a credible threat to invade, which probably is in the back of his mind.

He could well claim ethnic Russians in Donbass are being persecuted and move into that region.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 10:19:57 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 09:29:20 AM

London’s smallest microflat up for sale at £50,000 for 7 square metres | London | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/feb/17/londons-smallest-microflat-up-for-sale-at-50000-for-7-square-metres?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2-gDJIKvynQSjBLcE3nmbGi5W5L3uwRXBq0R6lHB6KEaqCIYkUEf9GUd0#Echobox=1645113545)

(https://i.imgur.com/v9eYDup.png)

London is one of the most expensive places I've ever been to. Oslo probably the most. Lot of people in London and not much land left.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 10:21:20 AM

I hear Singapore is ultra expensive, I've never been, and I'd guess Tokyo is up there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 10:21:26 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 10:10:23 AM

Negotiating leverage, and I'm not sure this really is a "massive buildup", it is a buildup, but as you note he's had tens of thousands of troops stationed near Ukraine for years.  Perhaps he wanted to get them noticed by moving 20,000 or so to a forward position.  They have to be somewhere, so the expense is in building quarters for them nearer Ukraine.  So, it's a gambit, and also provides him with a credible threat to invade, which probably is in the back of his mind.

He could well claim ethnic Russians in Donbass are being persecuted and move into that region.

He's already claimed this.  If he "moves in" any more than he already has by providing Russian backing to separatist rebels, it's an overt act of war and an invasion of a sovereign nation.  And it will be treated as such by the other sovereign nations nearby.

The Ukraine-Polish-UK announcement earlier this week is essentially a line drawn in the sand.  Ukraine doesn't have NATO affiliation, but the UK has officially positioned them as a Western ally and although they may not be what they once were, but the RAF is more than capable of establishing a no-fly zone over much of Ukraine and the RN is capable of neutralizing Russian naval forces.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 10:23:16 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 09:44:44 AM

Some diplomats and other leaders gathered in Munich had broached the idea that Putin could opt to dig in for a long siege with everything short of ordering troops over the border — cyberattacks, assassinations, coup plots, cutting off trade — in hopes of toppling the Ukrainian government without triggering sanctions, reported David Sanger of The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/17/us/politics/blinken-russia-ukraine-predictions.html). Russia’s enthusiasm today for sudden nuclear exercises is perhaps an example.

The Hill's Morning Report - One day, two continents, words of war | TheHill (https://thehill.com/homenews/morning-report/594867-the-hills-morning-report-Biden-Ukraine-Russia-Trump-family)

This is what I've thought it the most likely scenario going forward.  It's better than one alternative.

Jesus F'n Christ the conspiracy theories and propaganda of the US state department/"intelligence community", and the dipshit President has no limits. It's pretty clear the US wants a war. And shame on the completely useless worthless mainstream media which just parrots and repeats their lies uncritically, wholly unchecked with zero pushback. The fourth estate has completely collapsed. And it happened a long time ago, not like it's anything new. They are just mouth pieces for the powerful. Any dictator would be jealous of the obedience and compliance of the US media.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 18, 2022, 10:24:13 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 10:07:33 AM

The question is, why spend all the money for this recent large military build-up along the Ukrainian border at all?  Clearly he's pushing for something different, something new.  What's his goal?

Might be "our" Merchants of War pushing an agenda to raise more profit ya know since all that equipment was "mysteriously abandoned in an a contrived emergency" - follow the money - who owns mass media? I hate those shit berries.They weave their reputations into a parallel with that of those that have served and sacrificed to slide their narrative thru that they are there for the country while greasing the palms of those who will push thru their windfalls. They perhaps more than anyone have bankrupted the once flourishing robust economy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 10:27:35 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 10:21:26 AM

 Ukraine doesn't have NATO affiliation, but the UK has officially positioned them as a Western ally and although they may not be what they once were, but the RAF is more than capable of establishing a no-fly zone over much of Ukraine and the RN is capable of neutralizing Russian naval forces.

I do not think they do, at all, either of these, either currently or over the next year.

I bet the RN has almost no naval forces in or near the Baltic and would struggle to maintain much of anything there on a war footing.  It's the Russian's backyard, and they could deploy ground based antiship missiles with ease, aside from Backfires and whatnot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 10:28:02 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 10:21:26 AM

He's already claimed this.  If he "moves in" any more than he already has by providing Russian backing to separatist rebels, it's an overt act of war and an invasion of a sovereign nation.  And it will be treated as such by the other sovereign nations nearby.

The Ukraine-Polish-UK announcement earlier this week is essentially a line drawn in the sand.  Ukraine doesn't have NATO affiliation, but the UK has officially positioned them as a Western ally and although they may not be what they once were, but the RAF is more than capable of establishing a no-fly zone over much of Ukraine and the RN is capable of neutralizing Russian naval forces.

UK is America's lapdog. They are a toothless, worthless peon now. Our little pet dogs really. Kinda sad they went from the worlds greatest power to America's greatest bitch.

Russia has nearly 10x the active military personnel and nearly 25x the reserve military personnel. UK don't want no war with Russia. They are bluffing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 10:28:38 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 18, 2022, 10:24:13 AM

Might be "our" Merchants of War pushing an agenda to raise more profit ya know since all that equipment was "mysteriously abandoned in an a contrived emergency" - follow the money - who owns mass media? I hate those shit berries.They weave their reputations into a parallel with that of those that have served and sacrificed to slide their narrative thru that they are there for the country while greasing the palms of those who will push thru their windfalls. They perhaps more than anyone have bankrupted the once flourishing robust economy

Our merchants of war are opportunistic assholes but they're not the ones that chose to escalate and increase the levels of troops stationed along the border of the Ukraine.   They didn't somehow force Putin to do this.

Unless you're suggesting that the American war hawks are working in conjunction with Putin?  It's an interesting theory but not sure there's much chance of it being real.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 10:30:57 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 10:28:02 AM

UK is America's lapdog. They are a toothless, worthless peon now. Our little pet dogs really. Kinda sad they went from the worlds greatest power to America's greatest bitch.

Russia has nearly 10x the active military personnel and nearly 25x the reserve military personnel. UK don't want no war with Russia. They are bluffing.

I don't think they're bluffing.

I think you're 100% correct when you say they are doing the US's bidding, which means THEY know they have the US's backing.

And although you and I disagree with whether or not the rest of Europe should worry about Russia, we both certainly agree that we want the US to stay out of it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 10:31:36 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 10:07:33 AM

Well sure, it's what Putin's already been doing for the past 8 years.

The question is, why spend all the money for this recent large military build-up along the Ukrainian border at all?  Clearly he's pushing for something different, something new.  What's his goal?

right...he's been doing the same thing for 8 years. And now all of a sudden, he's going to launch an invasion? Makes no sense. Not going to be an invasion now either imo. Everyone should really just calm down and stop buying into the bullshit of the US state department/"intelligence community" and a dipshit President who has dementia. These assholes have been saying for 6 months an invasion is imminent. Whooops...no invasion! These are the biggest liars on planet earth. They lied about Afghanistan for 20 years. They lied about WMD's and Saddam having connections to Al-Qaeda. They lied about Libya. They lied about Syria. They lie about everything. It's literally their job to lie to the American people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 10:34:17 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 10:28:38 AM

Our merchants of war are opportunistic assholes but they're not the ones that chose to escalate and increase the levels of troops stationed along the border of the Ukraine.  They didn't somehow force Putin to do this.

Unless you're suggesting that the American war hawks are working in conjunction with Putin?  It's an interesting theory but not sure there's much chance of it being real.

expanding NATO is what they want. larger that little military alliance is - the more arms and weapons they get to sell. NATO countries are required to spend 2% of GDP on defense. Most of them didn't- but when Trump got in there and bitched and moaned at them- they all started to spend at that 2% or more. Expansion of NATO = more arm sales - which is why even though the US promised it would never expand one inch eastward, it continually has.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 10:41:43 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 10:30:57 AM

I don't think they're bluffing.

I think you're 100% correct when you say they are doing the US's bidding, which means THEY know they have the US's backing.

And although you and I disagree with whether or not the rest of Europe should worry about Russia, we both certainly agree that we want the US to stay out of it.

I mean I just fail to see it. Aside from him wanting buffer states near his borders and maintaining a sphere of influence over very close bordering neighbors - which you could say the same for every freaking power- the guy has not exactly been on a world domination tear. He's not going to revive the USSR. He's not a communist or true believer. He's a mafia thug business man who has stolen hundreds of billions from his own country. And he seemingly wants to just to continue doing that- while eliminating any threats to him inside Russia and very near Russia.

He's a danger to his own people in his own country who try and cross him, but to the world? He's been in power for nearly a quarter century in Russia. And I just don't see the evidence of that.

He's got more reason to fear the US/Western Europe than we have to fear him. The US is the worlds lone super power (although China is a'comin') and the US is still by far the worlds greatest military power. And the US has used the military power to bomb, invade, and destroy countries all over the world- many of these wars on bullsh*t lies (IRAQ...COUGH COUGH). And the US bullies Western Europe/NATO to go along with them. Really only France has ever had the balls to stand up to the US war machine and refuse to participate in wars the US tells NATO they've got to participate in.

Russia? They really haven't. Since Putin has been in power, has he gone to countries half way around the world from Russia and completely destroyed them? No? Well, we have. Several.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 10:46:38 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 10:34:17 AM

expanding NATO is what they want. larger that little military alliance is - the more arms and weapons they get to sell. NATO countries are required to spend 2% of GDP on defense. Most of them didn't- but when Trump got in there and bitched and moaned at them- they all started to spend at that 2% or more. Expansion of NATO = more arm sales - which is why even though the US promised it would never expand one inch eastward, it continually has.

This is false.  Every president makes a spiel about spending 2%, very few of them do it, and they ignored Trump on this point.  This is completely false.

And the US never promised Russia anything about NATO expansion, that is another lie.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 10:48:10 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/6GDOod8.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 18, 2022, 10:48:24 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 10:28:02 AM

UK is America's lapdog. They are a toothless, worthless peon now. Our little pet dogs really. Kinda sad they went from the worlds greatest power to America's greatest bitch.

Russia has nearly 10x the active military personnel and nearly 25x the reserve military personnel. UK don't want no war with Russia. They are bluffing.

Not so sure about that by geography their borders are closed.Not getting the influx of new arrivals to feed 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 10:55:47 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 10:46:38 AM

This is false.  Every president makes a spiel about spending 2%, very few of them do it, and they ignored Trump on this point.  This is completely false.

And the US never promised Russia anything about NATO expansion, that is another lie.

No, it's not false. Thanks for posting the graphic. They are all basically right at 1.5% (VERY NEAR 2%) or more except for Luxembourg, Spain, and Belgium. The spending on defense without a doubt across the board increased once Trump got in there and bullied, bitched, and moaned at them. Compare it to previous years, it's gone up - way up - and it was in part because of the Orange Ahole.

And YES, the US did promise the USSR that. That is not another lie. I've already linked and cited you the evidence for that- multiple times- official declassified government documents from 4 different governments- which for whatever reason you failed to read and continue to ignore. Just because you don't want to believe something- doesn't mean it's not true. It is a FACT that President Bush I and Secretary of State James Baker gave explicit assurances to Mikhail Gorbachev that NATO would NOT expand eastward if USSR. It's just a fact. You saying that it is a lie, is a lie.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 10:55:58 AM

Trump pushes NATO allies to spend more, but so did Obama and Bush (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/11/obama-and-bush-also-pressed-nato-allies-to-spend-more-on-defense.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 10:57:16 AM

I posted stuff earlier on NATO expansion that showed your story is a lie, and nobody upped NATO spending because of what Trump said, and most are short of 2% and will remain short.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 10:58:28 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 10:55:58 AM

Trump pushes NATO allies to spend more, but so did Obama and Bush (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/11/obama-and-bush-also-pressed-nato-allies-to-spend-more-on-defense.html)

yeah, they might've did it privately and not rail on it. you never heard them talking about NATO publicly. 

Trump was bashing NATO constantly and openly talking about even pulling out. My guess is the very public and constant nature of Trump trashing them and openly talking about pulling out- is what actually got them to...you know...spend more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 18, 2022, 11:01:02 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 10:21:20 AM

I hear Singapore is ultra expensive, I've never been, and I'd guess Tokyo is up there.

Both are places on my list to visit at some point... Tokyo higher priority than Singapore, but I've heard AWESOME things about Singapore.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 11:01:13 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 10:57:16 AM

I posted stuff earlier on NATO expansion that showed your story is a lie, and nobody upped NATO spending because of what Trump said, and most are short of 2% and will remain short.

NO you didn't post jackshit showing that. You posted some bullshit article where the idiot writer said....oh not in writing...doesn't count! No one ever claimed it was in writing.

I posted you links of actual declassified government documents which proved that the US assured Gorbachev many times in person and over phone talks - that NATO would not expand eastward. Period. End of story. This happened, so stop making it up that it didn't. It is a matter of fact. It is a matter of recorded history.

Most are right at around 1.5% or over 2% pal. Read the graphic again. Only 3 countries are way short of 1.5%. And the spending has increased across the board - as more countries inched closer to that 2% and exceeded the 2% in large part because of the Orange Ahole was bullying them privately and slamming them very publicly. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 11:04:29 AM

1.5% is not 2.0%, and Trump didn't impact this at all.  There was a silly conspiracy notion about NATO expansion that you bought into and was clearly false, but have at it, par for the course.

And Bush and Obama both PUBLICLY excoriated NATO countries to spend more.  They even agreed to do it by 2024, and then of course reneged.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 11:05:20 AM

In 2006, then-president Bush used a NATO summit in Latvia to pressure allies (http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/11/27/bush-to-press-allies-for-more-defense-spending-at-nato-summit.html) to increase their defense spending at the height of the U.S.-led NATO military campaign in Afghanistan.
Two years later, he used his final NATO summit to do the same thing. “At this summit, I will encourage our European partners to increase their defense investments to support both NATO and EU operations,” Bush said at the opening of the 2008 summit in Bucharest, Romania. “America believes if Europeans invest in their own defense, they will also be stronger and more capable when we deploy together,” he said.
And despite the many differences between Bush’s foreign policy and that of Obama, his successor, one thing the two leaders agreed upon was the need for more defense spending from NATO allies.
For Obama, the issue of NATO defense spending became especially important during his second term, when Russia’s arming of separatists in Ukraine and subsequent annexation of Crimea in 2014 stunned the West.

“If we’ve got collective defense, it means that everybody’s got to chip in, and I have had some concerns about a diminished level of defense spending among some of our partners in NATO. Not all, but many,” Obama said at a press conference in Brussels in March 2014, less than a week after Russia declared that Crimea was now a Russian state.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 11:11:39 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 11:04:29 AM

1.5% is not 2.0%, and Trump didn't impact this at all.  There was a silly conspiracy notion about NATO expansion that you bought into and was clearly false, but have at it, par for the course.

And Bush and Obama both PUBLICLY excoriated NATO countries to spend more.  They even agreed to do it by 2024, and then of course reneged.

jesus christ man you really have no idea what you're talking about. read the god damn declassified documents for yourself before you mouth off about it being clearly false or anyone buying into a conspiracy theory. try reading the f***king declassified US gov't documents pal. I linked them for you like 3 f**king times. They are very explicit in US and Western European governments promising Gorbachev NATO would not expand east. Period. End of discussion. It's all right there in the documents. READ THEM.

And LOL give me a break. Bush and Obama were career politicians. Trump was a reality tv show star. Any criticisms Bush/Obama threw NATO countries way to spend more was mild as hell and weak sauce in comparison to the Orange One. Trump was bashing them non-stop while he was running and once he got into office - and even openly questioned whether to withdraw or disband NATO. Bush and Obama rarely talked about NATO, Western Europe ripping the US off, or withdrawing from/disbanding NATO. Trump did almost non-stop.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 11:13:44 AM

Your post was clearly false on both points.

Did NATO Promise Not to Enlarge? Gorbachev Says “No” (brookings.edu) (https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/)

We now have a very authoritative voice from Moscow confirming this understanding. Russia behind the Headlines has published an interview with Gorbachev (http://rbth.com/international/2014/10/16/mikhail_gorbachev_i_am_against_all_walls_40673.html), who was Soviet president during the discussions and treaty negotiations concerning German reunification. The interviewer asked why Gorbachev did not “insist that the promises made to you [Gorbachev]—particularly U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s promise that NATO would not expand into the East—be legally encoded?” Gorbachev replied: “The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. … Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement was made in that context… Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled.”

Related Books

• 
  [img width=64.1875 height=740.625]https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/9780815732723_fc.jpg[/img] (https://www.brookings.edu/book/bucharest-diary/)[/size]
  
  [iurl=https://www.brookings.edu/book/bucharest-diary/]Bucharest Diary[/iurl][/size][/color]
  By Alfred H. Moses (https://www.brookings.edu/search/Alfred+H.+Moses/) 
  2018[/size]
  [/font][/font][/font][/size][/color]
• 
  [img width=64.1875 height=740.625]https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/9781947661011_fc.jpg[/img] (https://www.brookings.edu/book/energy-transportation-in-the-atlantic-basin/)[/size]
  
  [iurl=https://www.brookings.edu/book/energy-transportation-in-the-atlantic-basin/]Energy & Transportation in the Atlantic Basin[/iurl][/size][/color]
  Edited by Paul Isbell (https://www.brookings.edu/search/Paul+Isbell/) and Eloy Álvarez Pelegry (https://www.brookings.edu/search/Eloy+Álvarez+Pelegry/) 
  2017[/size]
  [/font][/font][/font][/size][/color]
• 
  [img width=64.1875 height=962.25 alt=Cover: Transatlantic Relations]https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/9781784132118_FC.jpg[/img] (https://www.brookings.edu/book/potential-for-transatlantic-rifts/)[/size]
  
  [iurl=https://www.brookings.edu/book/potential-for-transatlantic-rifts/]Transatlantic Relations[/iurl][/size][/color]
  By Xenia Wickett (https://www.brookings.edu/search/Xenia+Wickett/) 
  2018[/size]
  [/font][/font][/font][/size][/color]

Gorbachev continued that “The agreement on a final settlement with Germany said that no new military structures would be created in the eastern part of the country; no additional troops would be deployed; no weapons of mass destruction would be placed there. It has been obeyed all these years.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 11:24:29 AM

jesus christ. don't bring me some weasel words from some neoliberal think tank bullshit like brookings that has quotes from Gorbachev just trying to save face because he was duped and played like an idiot. think tanks are one of the reasons why this country is failing miserably right now. 
https://www.mic.com/articles/150870/a-major-dc-think-tank-has-sold-out-to-corporations-reports-new-york-times

Read this. 
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

And then click on the declassified documents and read them in whole. Thanks. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 11:28:08 AM

It is clearly a falsehood spread by Putin and his ilk, with no basis in fact.

At any rate, I remain half convinced this is a ploy by Putin to wrangle concessions, the West is clearly talking about holding talks.  Talks about what?  

Maybe Putin wants Nordstream II to be approved, and he won't invade.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 11:28:52 AM

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/commentary/infographic/despite-covid-19-pandemic-nato-defense-spending-continues-to-rise/


"Eleven allies now meet the 2 percent-of-real gross domestic product (GDP) threshold established at the 2014 Wales Summit, up from just three allies in 2014."


So, to recap, when Obama was in office just 3 countries were at the 2%. Once Trump left office, it jumped from 3 countries to 11. And every country across the board spent more and committed to spending more in the future. Funny how that works- if you constantly bully, trash and put very public pressure on a bunch of countries and an entire organization they all start to get their shit together.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 11:30:06 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 11:28:08 AM

It is clearly a falsehood spread by Putin and his ilk, with no basis in fact.

wrong. again.

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 11:51:52 AM

MSNBC caught spreading neo-nazi propaganda/misinfo. Will they get censored or have their video taken down? Nope.

Notice the insignia on the soldiers uniforms- it's Nazi SS. They are the Azov Battalion - a Ukrainian far-right neo-nazi extremist group. LOL.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10515451/Babushka-battalion-training-Ukraine-organised-neo-NAZIS.html

US State dept/CIA has been funding/training/arming literal neo-nazis in Ukraine. Now MSNBC is doing tv propaganda for them. Lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwynHUEPo54

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 18, 2022, 12:00:39 PM

Speaking of tanks... the DoD/DoS just authorized the sale of 250 M1 Abrams to Poland.  

Wanna know what's going on? THAT is what's going on.  Rumors of war and war by proxy... lots of cash being made because of... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 12:04:07 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on February 18, 2022, 12:00:39 PM

Speaking of tanks... the DoD/DoS just authorized the sale of 250 M1 Abrams to Poland. 

Wanna know what's going on? THAT is what's going on.  Rumors of war and war by proxy... lots of cash being made because of...

bingo.

As for Ukraine and that story I just posted about MSNBC being stupid as hell by doing a warm and fuzzy PR piece for a neo-nazi group - well US gov't has been backing neo-nazi militia groups in Ukraine for years now. Call me crazy, but I am most definitely NOT OK with US support/tax-dollars going to nazi's in any way shape or form.


https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/americas-collusion-with-neo-nazis/
https://jacobinmag.com/2022/01/cia-neo-nazi-training-ukraine-russia-putin-biden-nato
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/congress-has-removed-a-ban-on-funding-neo-nazis-from-its-year-end-spending-bill/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 12:16:03 PM

Polish Defence Ministry confirms plan to buy M1 Abrams tanks (defensenews.com) (https://www.defensenews.com/land/2021/07/14/polish-defence-ministry-confirms-plan-to-buy-m1-abrams-tanks/)

Dated July 14, 2021.

The USMC is getting rid of its M1A1s, might be from that batch, though the above sale is M1A2s.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 18, 2022, 12:24:19 PM

This is a Ukraine problem. But, they are trying to make it everyone else's problem.

Kyiv mayor pleads with US, Germany over threat of Russian invasion: 'We can't defend our country' | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/kyiv-mayor-us-germany-threat-russia)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 12:26:58 PM

In 2014, when allies agreed that all members should meet NATO’s 2% spending level by 2024, only the U.S., Greece and the United Kingdom were in compliance. Now, NATO data shows Romania, Estonia, Latvia, Poland, Lithuania, France and Norway meeting the target.

Trump has taken credit for an overall boost in allied defense spending in recent years, and Stoltenberg has praised the U.S. president for making it a priority. But the increases date back to 2014 when Russia’s military intervention in Ukraine led allies to reverse a downward trend in spending that began when the Cold War ended.

Yay, some small countries and France got to 2%, after Obama harrangued them about it.

Yay.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 12:40:08 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 18, 2022, 12:24:19 PM

This is a Ukraine problem. But, they are trying to make it everyone else's problem.

Kyiv mayor pleads with US, Germany over threat of Russian invasion: 'We can't defend our country' | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/kyiv-mayor-us-germany-threat-russia)

yeah, I'm sick and tired about talking about Ukraine and Russia at this point. What will be will be. And quite frankly I truly do not give a squirt of piss if Russia invades Ukraine. Not the US's problem and it's not worth one drop of American blood or a single penny of US treasure.

Interesting fact: former Heavyweight champion boxer Vitali Klitchscko is the mayor of Kiev. If he's so concerned about the defense of his country, maybe he should challenge Putin in a fist fight to the death. Winner takes the others country, loser well... dies. I'd pay serious money on PPV to watch that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 12:44:50 PM

I think the potential Russian invasion of Ukraine is interesting and newsworthy, and the name of this thread is "In Other News" so it seems topical enough.

I think that running around and arguing ad infinitum with every single person whose opinion differs even slightly from your own, is probably exhausting, and is likely to result in one becoming sick and tired of a subject.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 12:53:31 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 12:44:50 PM

I think the potential Russian invasion of Ukraine is interesting and newsworthy, and the name of this thread is "In Other News" so it seems topical enough.

I feel like an actual INVASION is interesting and newsworthy, not a potential invasion. We're just speaking about hypotheticals that so far, have not come to pass. You do realize the US state dept. and the mainstream news propaganda machine has been screaming RUSSIA TO INVADE ANYDAY NOW OH NOOOOO - for months, right? They've been making all kinds of wild unsubstantiated accusations and claims- with very little pushback from the press. The one time I saw a reporter pushback on them- dude was called a Russian agent. And they just won't f**king stop with the noise. I'd say I'm more sick and tired of being punched in the face and bombarded by RUSSIA TO INVADE UKRAINE TOMORROW hype and headlines for months than arguing on this board. I can argue all day long, I'm a jerk-off.

Like, wake me up when they actually invade. Until then, stfu press. And say Russia invades Ukraine. So what? How does this affect anyone in the United States or this country at all? It really doesn't. I'm with Badge. Not our problem. And to act like the US has played zero role in these tensions- just comically head in the sand, pie in the sky naïveté.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 18, 2022, 12:54:24 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 12:40:08 PM

yeah, I'm sick and tired about talking about Ukraine and Russia at this point. What will be will be. And quite frankly I truly do not give a squirt of piss if Russia invades Ukraine. Not the US's problem and it's not worth one drop of American blood or a single penny of US treasure.

Interesting fact: former Heavyweight champion boxer Vitali Klitchscko is the mayor of Kiev. If he's so concerned about the defense of his country, maybe he should challenge Putin in a fist fight to the death. Winner takes the others country, loser well... dies. I'd pay serious money on PPV to watch that.

They should take a lesson from this:


https://www.upworthy.com/in-the-90s-two-companies-were-using-the-same-motto-they-arm-wrestled-to-see-who-got-to-keep-it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 12:59:44 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 12:53:31 PM

I feel like an actual INVASION is interesting and newsworthy, not a potential invasion. We're just speaking about hypotheticals that so far, have not come to pass. You do realize the US state dept. and the mainstream news propaganda machine has been screaming RUSSIA TO INVADE ANYDAY NOW OH NOOOOO - for months, right? They've been making all kinds of wild unsubstantiated accusations and claims- with very little pushback from the press. The one time I saw a reporter pushback on them- dude was called a Russian agent. And they just won't f**king stop with the noise. I'd say I'm more sick and tired of being punched in the face and bombarded by RUSSIA TO INVADE UKRAINE TOMORROW hype and headlines for months than arguing on this board. I can argue all day long, I'm a jerk-off.

Like, wake me up when they actually invade. Until then, stfu press. And say Russia invades Ukraine. So what? How does this affect anyone in the United States or this country at all? It really doesn't. I'm with Badge. Not our problem. And to act like the US has played zero role in these tensions- just comically head in the sand, pie in the sky naïveté.

You're doing it again.  Why are you so insistent on and so passionate about shutting down anyone and everyone whose opinion differs from yours?

It's newsworthy when Russia builds up troops on the border of a sovereign nation that it once effectively owned.  There's clearly a reason for it, whether the purpose is actually to invade, or not.  This is the "In Other News" thread.

If you don't like talking about it, then don't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 01:00:12 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 18, 2022, 12:54:24 PM

They should take a lesson from this:


https://www.upworthy.com/in-the-90s-two-companies-were-using-the-same-motto-they-arm-wrestled-to-see-who-got-to-keep-it

yeah but isn't Putin a former KGB agent and like a black-belt in martial arts and Klitchsko was a former elite heavyweight world champ. That'd be kinda fun to watch them beat the shit out of each other.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 18, 2022, 01:05:08 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 10:28:38 AM

Our merchants of war are opportunistic assholes but they're not the ones that chose to escalate and increase the levels of troops stationed along the border of the Ukraine.  They didn't somehow force Putin to do this.

Unless you're suggesting that the American war hawks are working in conjunction with Putin?  It's an interesting theory but not sure there's much chance of it being real.

In 2008 the ebola chimp Biden at a town hall meeting (when running against Obama) literally got in a woman's face stating he would get the US out of the middle east but it would take like 7 months to extract all of our "equipment".There may be a video of it here that i left. He emphasized a complete evacuation,lest that "equipment" be used on our grand children.He's obviously forgot that but his handlers didn't - that simple oversite/omission with distractions made those opportunistic assholes Billions. That simply isn't a coincidence - there's too many of them.Bush/Cheney profited in oil and government contracts during WARS in Iraq/Afgnanistan showing their true colors with spine's of a gummy bear when the fur flew in Nam

Here is an short excerpt of Eisenhower's Farewwell Address - He definately knew of the weasel in the wood pile

A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction.
Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peace time, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.

Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.



This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence-economic, political, even spiritual-is felt in every city, every state house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.



In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.



Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.
In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

Low hanging fruit and they've picked the tree dry. Remember the comic strip POGO satirized Oliver Hazard Perry's famous declaration " we have met the enemy and he is us"

How about Lincoln's prophesy
“From whence shall we expect the approach of danger? Shall some trans-Atlantic military giant step the earth and crush us at a blow? Never. All the armies of Europe and Asia...could not by force take a drink from the Ohio River or make a track on the Blue Ridge in the trial of a thousand years. No, if destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men we will live forever or die by suicide.”

I'm afraid one of the finest souls(IKE & ABE) that ever incarnated saw it coming

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 01:07:56 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 18, 2022, 01:05:08 PM

In 2008 the ebola chimp Biden at a town hall meeting (when running against Obama) literally got in a woman's face stating he would get the US out of the middle east but it would take like 7 months to extract all of our "equipment".There may be a video of it here that i left. He emphasized a complete evacuation,lest that "equipment" be used on our grand children.He's obviously forgot that but his handlers didn't - that simple oversite/omission with distractions made those opportunistic assholes Billions. That simply isn't a coincidence - there's too many of them.Bush/Cheney profited in oil and government contracts during WARS in Iraq/Afgnanistan all the while showing spine's of a gummy bear as the fur flew in The Nam

...

So I just want to get this straight-- you are saying that US military commercial interests are working directly with Putin to manufacture a reason to increase the sales of military hardware.

Because otherwise I'm not sure why you posted the above?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 01:09:44 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 12:59:44 PM

It's newsworthy when Russia builds up troops on the border of a sovereign nation that it once effectively owned.  There's clearly a reason for it, whether the purpose is actually to invade, or not.  This is the "In Other News" thread.

they've been building up troops on that border for almost a decade. Hasn't been an invasion in 8 years. Wake me up when they have invaded. There's clearly a reason why the current US administration is trying to ratchet up tensions and push for war right now....

Biden's approval ratings are in the toilet, inflation is highest in decades, skyrocketing gas prices, an affordable housing crisis, more COVID deaths in year 1 under him with vaccines than in Trump's year of COVID without the vaccines (when he ran on- I have a plan for COVID!), an exploding border crisis, an economy that is just barely humming along, Biden going back on every single promise he ran on (student debt for one) - the Dems are about to get wiped out in the midterms and the dude will need a miracle to win in 2024- that's if his party doesn't replace him by then. Anything to get the nations mind off his absolute shitshow disaster of a presidency.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 01:12:51 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 01:07:56 PM

So I just want to get this straight-- you are saying that US military commercial interests are working directly with Putin to manufacture a reason to increase the sales of military hardware.

Because otherwise I'm not sure why you posted the above?

defense contractors who buy politicians by making campaign donations and buy retired CIA/NSA/Military officials who get paid by defense contractors and go on cable news or write op-ed article after article advocating for war 24/7 do not need to work with Vladimir Putin to manufacture reasons to increase the sales of military hardware. They invent boogeyman and reasons why we must push towards war constantly, in case you haven't noticed. He's just the useful idiot of the moment.

edit: it's actually even worse than just the above- as employees of defense contractors often go into government and vice versa. the current secretary of defense was a top level guy and on the board of Raytheon and made millions of dollars working for them. seem to remember one of the former ex-VP's that was a main architect of the bullsh*t Iraq war being the former CEO of Haliburton- a company that got billion dollar no-bid contracts during said war.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 18, 2022, 01:44:22 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 01:07:56 PM

So I just want to get this straight-- you are saying that US military commercial interests are working directly with Putin to manufacture a reason to increase the sales of military hardware.

Because otherwise I'm not sure why you posted the above?

I'm saying they'll manipulate any blip on the radar for their neferious pleasures. They're drunk with excess/power and want more. And when conglomerate's own corporations that own companies that own the media they can sell it any way they want. Ayatollah Khomeini's the bad guy - they win. Ferdinand Marcos the bad guy - they win. Manual Noriaga's the bad guy - they win. Pablo Escobar's the bad guy - they win. Muammar Gaddafi's the bad guy -  they win. Osama Bin Laden the bad guy - they win .Saddam Hussein's the bad guy - they win. THEY have  a monoply on killing the bad guys they don't mind maybe creating. The Federal Treasurey is now a propped up myth. We now have 3X the population of 1929 and if you think anything resembling checks,balances and accurate reporting of the facts,ways and means is going on in the Nations Capitol then share some of that Hippy Lettuce with the rest of the congregation.THEY killed the goose that laid the Golden Egg. Our own government now is a puppet and we the surfs.Seize the day gentleman

as the song goes"and I'm frightened by those that don't see it"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 01:47:09 PM

also something to think about.....Ukraine is a NATO partner, but not member. We know this. However, if Ukraine were ever to gain membership to NATO - (and remember NATO promised Ukraine in 2008 that they would eventually become full NATO members - and NATO reaffirmed that 2008 membership declaration in 2021 stating Ukraine WILL become members one day- but without ever specifying when they'd actually become members) - this would automatically commit all other NATO member states to the defense of Ukraine. Ukraine (as they are right to do) considers the Eastern separatists territories as Russian occupied, and they also do not accept Russia's annexation of Crimea. This means that Ukraine is being invaded and occupied and still technically at war with Russia- and if Ukraine ever were admitted to NATO- all of Western Europe and the United States would essentially be at war with Russia as they would be compelled to defend Ukraine. That might be more than a little intimidating for Putin.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 01:57:06 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 18, 2022, 01:44:22 PM

I'm saying they'll manipulate any blip on the radar for their neferious pleasures. They're drunk with excess/power and want more. And when conglomerate's own corporations that own companies that own the media they can sell it any way they want. Ayatollah Khomeini's the bad guy - they win. Ferdinand Marcos the bad guy - they win. Manual Noriaga's the bad guy - they win. Pablo Escobar's the bad guy - they win. Muammar Gaddafi's the bad guy -  they win. Osama Bin Laden the bad guy - they win .Saddam Hussein's the bad guy - they win. THEY have  a monoply on killing the bad guys they don't mind maybe creating. The Federal Treasurey is now a propped up myth. We now have 3X the population of 1929 and if you think anything resembling checks,balances and accurate reporting of the facts,ways and means is going on in the Nations Capitol then share some of that Hippy Lettuce with the rest of the congregation.THEY killed the goose that laid the Golden Egg. Our own government now is a puppet and we the surfs.Seize the day gentleman

as the song goes"and I'm frightened by those that don't see it"

yeah, it's pretty much par for the course. wash, rinse, repeat. What is hysterical is the US has a trend of previously backing most of these boogeyman to the hilt- then they wind up killing them years later. Almost every name you mentioned - the US backed at one point in time before they killed them lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 02:08:27 PM

https://twitter.com/loganclarkhall/status/1494409951846010884?s=20&t=9wTaQ44RIwSafnO9Ksji1g

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 02:12:40 PM

former MI6 chief spymaster admits to a think tank what we all already knew...

https://twitter.com/caitoz/status/1494441091768406016?s=20&t=9wTaQ44RIwSafnO9Ksji1g 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 02:15:07 PM

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1494372448652955650?s=20&t=9wTaQ44RIwSafnO9Ksji1g

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 02:17:49 PM

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FLzuL6vVIAcdTGS?format=jpg&name=900x900)

^ this is the same douchebag that wore black face half a dozen times at parties and praised the CCP and said he admired that gov't/country more than any in the world.

He easily is one of the most dislikable people in the world with one of the most punchable faces ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srzWWMaHgBE

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 18, 2022, 02:30:28 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 01:57:06 PM

yeah, it's pretty much par for the course. wash, rinse, repeat. What is hysterical is the US has a trend of previously backing most of these boogeyman to the hilt- then they wind up killing them years later. Almost every name you mentioned - the US backed at one point in time before they killed them lol.

I just boggles the mind,grow up thinking you do the right thing it somehow comes back BZZZZT!!! Wrong I can see why the younger generations seemingly are either indifferent or Just don't G.A.F.,don't blame them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 02:39:58 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 18, 2022, 02:30:28 PM

I just boggles the mind,grow up thinking you do the right thing it somehow comes back BZZZZT!!! Wrong I can see why the younger generations seemingly are either indifferent or Just don't G.A.F.,don't blame them

CIA calls this blowback- unintended consequences that result as part of US meddling. It's happened time and time again, way too many times to count. Not sure US ever even thinks that far ahead- they just use who they can when they can to their advantage at the moment- they propped up monsters like Saddam and Bin Laden when convenient (knowing full well these guys were complete murderous psycho scumbags whilst backing them) and then once those relationships go south and bite us in the ass or are not useful anymore- time to kill.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 02:50:35 PM

Why NATO Has Become a Flash Point With Russia in Ukraine | Council on Foreign Relations (cfr.org) (https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/why-nato-has-become-flash-point-russia-ukraine)

Some useful background in my view, without the hyperbole and hysteria.

I understand what Putin claims to want, and why he would want that.  He may get some portion of it in negotiation, and the military show of force is related to that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 03:13:56 PM

Fire on Cargo Ship Packed With Porsches and VWs Is Reportedly Fueled by EV Batteries (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39137893/cargo-ship-fire-fueled-by-ev-batteries/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&fbclid=IwAR3-7h_qqyV_OA5eyIBILMZhv7MfpNycVXWjwzJaxys7H3C-vDSZoLmV7Wg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 03:14:04 PM

Yes what Putin claims to want is obvious.

What he actually wants perhaps not so obvious.

The escalation and build-up is calculated and intentional.  If he's presenting as a "credible threat" then he should expect to be treated as one.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 03:19:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 03:13:56 PM

Fire on Cargo Ship Packed With Porsches and VWs Is Reportedly Fueled by EV Batteries (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39137893/cargo-ship-fire-fueled-by-ev-batteries/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&fbclid=IwAR3-7h_qqyV_OA5eyIBILMZhv7MfpNycVXWjwzJaxys7H3C-vDSZoLmV7Wg)

Yikes, I'd heard about the blaze, didn't know EV batteries were involved.  That's bad news.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 03:23:27 PM

I am fairly sure Putin dreams about having Ukraine being like Byelorus is today, subservient, and eventually part of a new "Warsaw Pact".  I think he knows the "Stans" are gone.  Georgia probably not.  If he could reassmble a portion of the USSR to include Ukraine and Byelorus and maybe Georgia, he's have quite a chunk.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 03:26:28 PM

I think something rather dramatic has to happen in Ukraine in a couple of weeks or the boy who cried wolf will start to seem relevant.  The public will tire of the story.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 18, 2022, 03:36:33 PM

I don't see any value for Putin in claiming Georgia. It's a tiny little place with only two small useful ports on the Black Sea. Seems to me that it would not benefit Putin one bit, and would probably end up costing more money to prop up than it's worth.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 03:36:42 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 03:14:04 PM

Yes what Putin claims to want is obvious.

What he actually wants perhaps not so obvious.

The escalation and build-up is calculated and intentional.  If he's presenting as a "credible threat" then he should expect to be treated as one.

well you do realize that NATO expansion (pushed by the US- which by the way the Bush II administration were trying to push NATO to make Ukraine immediate full fledged members in '08- but the rest of Western Europe wisely pushed back- offering instead a public guarantee of future Ukrainian membership) and the US backing a successful far-right coup in 2014 has played a role in leading us to this point, right? The US backed coup (of a democratically elected gov't I might add) in 2014 was the flashpoint which triggered Russia into taking Crimea and ensuring Russia had control of Sevastopol naval base, which is maybe the most important naval base they had to that countries national interests/national security. US's continual funding/arming training of neo-nazi militias in Ukraine probably isn't helping matters much either.

Putin is a threat to his own population and the small piss ant poor countries near him that he wishes Russia continue to maintain in their sphere of influence, but not really much else. As usual, US is engaging in astounding levels of hypocrisy here...Monroe Doctrine, anyone? Linky.
 (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/13/opinion/us-russia-putin-ukraine.html)Just think, if that jerk-off Khrushchev never gave Crimea to Ukraine in the mid 1950s we probably wouldn't be where we are today. Russia wouldn't have invaded Crimea to take the Sevastopol naval base- they'd still own it and we probably wouldn't be in the situation we are at now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 03:38:54 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 18, 2022, 03:36:33 PM

I don't see any value for Putin in claiming Georgia. It's a tiny little place with only two small useful ports on the Black Sea. Seems to me that it would not benefit Putin one bit, and would probably end up costing more money to prop up than it's worth.

They have pretty good wine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 03:38:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 03:26:28 PM

I think something rather dramatic has to happen in Ukraine in a couple of weeks or the boy who cried wolf will start to seem relevant.  The public will tire of the story.

they've been crying wolf for months on this. and decades literally - if you've been paying attention to every other war.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 03:40:23 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 18, 2022, 03:36:33 PM

I don't see any value for Putin in claiming Georgia. It's a tiny little place with only two small useful ports on the Black Sea. Seems to me that it would not benefit Putin one bit, and would probably end up costing more money to prop up than it's worth.

this.

I think it's pretty obvious why he wants Ukraine to maintain in Russia's sphere of influence. They share a common history that they don't with Georgia. Georgia really has nothing to offer him- like you said. Not to mention he'd like to keep Ukraine as a buffer state vs the west/NATO and he absolutely needs that god damn port in Crimea like his life depends on it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 03:42:36 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 18, 2022, 03:36:33 PM

I don't see any value for Putin in claiming Georgia. It's a tiny little place with only two small useful ports on the Black Sea. Seems to me that it would not benefit Putin one bit, and would probably end up costing more money to prop up than it's worth.

Yup I tend to agree.  Holding Georgia would be more trouble than it's worth.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on February 18, 2022, 03:57:49 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 17, 2022, 01:01:57 PM

I too use Schwab

I dont use all their fancy tools but they get the job done when I need it

Their customer service is decent

I also use Schwab, but I have no choice, my wife is director of strategy for them and I am not allowed to invest anyplace else. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 04:04:09 PM

Heh, fortunately for me, there is a Schwab office just up the street.  I drop in a few times to chit chat.  They never seem very busy at all, I wonder about their overhead.

It's a large office, two guys at the front desk and probably 12 more offices around plus a large meeting room, a TV, and they used to have "free coffee".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 04:21:38 PM

I just threw in Georgia because of Stalin.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 04:27:53 PM

these are pretty good reads, from 2014 but still relevant to today...


https://www.vox.com/2014/9/4/6105491/putin-russia-chart

https://www.vox.com/2014/5/30/5762650/eurasian-union-eu-weak-sauce-gdp-military

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 04:54:35 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/feb/18/russia-ukraine-news-crisis-latest-putin-biden-kyiv-russian-invasion-threat-troops-border-live-updates

Pipeline explosion in Luhansk.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 04:56:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 04:21:38 PM

I just threw in Georgia because of Stalin.

Well, Russia ≠ USSR. Nor will it ever. USSR is dead, and it ain't a never coming back. The whole "Putin wants to restore the USSR" crap is ridiculous. Completely different forms of government, economic systems, and completely different ideologies. For one- present day Russia is very religious - something that has been encouraged by the state. And well, we know the USSR banned religion, destroyed places of worship, and persecuted harassed, incarcerated and executed religious leaders. Putin is actively trying to promote traditional marriage (between men and women) and faith in God. Not that I'm for the state promoting religion or anything- I'm not- but they are pretty huge f'in differences.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 04:57:26 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 04:54:35 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/feb/18/russia-ukraine-news-crisis-latest-putin-biden-kyiv-russian-invasion-threat-troops-border-live-updates

Pipeline explosion in Luhansk.

(https://c.tenor.com/x-FL-l7ERS4AAAAC/and-here-we-go-joker.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 05:19:44 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 04:54:35 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/feb/18/russia-ukraine-news-crisis-latest-putin-biden-kyiv-russian-invasion-threat-troops-border-live-updates

Pipeline explosion in Luhansk.

We've been predicting this sort of thing, in part because it isn't really new, nor is it a sign necessarily that "here we go" either.

I expect more of the same, and no obvious invasion with Russian ground forces.  

And I don't see a reasonable reason to think the US would be involved militarily anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 05:21:09 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/HsuFduc.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 05:28:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 05:21:09 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/HsuFduc.png)

'Merica baby. Dumbest, fattest but most kick ass nation on earth.

Here's a bit of an oldie but goodie.....84% of American's polled couldn't even locate Ukraine on a map. And the less they knew about where Ukraine is located- the more they wanted the US to intervene on Ukraine's behalf.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2014/04/07/the-less-americans-know-about-ukraines-location-the-more-they-want-u-s-to-intervene/

Latest polling shows stark difference in opinion vs the old and young vs US involvement in any Ukraine-Russia conflict. Here's a great excerpt from 538 article. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-americans-think-about-the-crisis-in-ukraine/

"But while Americans under 45 tend to be more Democratic-leaning, they were more likely to say the U.S. should support neither country — or that they weren’t sure — while older Americans felt more strongly that the U.S. should support Ukraine. The age splits could reflect lingering anti-Russian views among older Americans who remember the Cold War. Polling from The Economist/YouGov last week found that about half of Americans ages 45 or older viewed Russia as an “enemy” of the U.S., while only around a quarter of those under 45 said the same. The divide may also reflect the skepticism that many young Americans have toward American military intervention, as many came of age during the lengthy and troubled wars in Iraq and Afghanistan."

So basically, older people who are more prone to remember the USSR/Cold War and conflate the USSR with Russia and view them as an enemy. Not that surprising.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 05:46:23 PM

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1494801282674089987?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1494801282674089987%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fnytimes%2Fstatus%2F1494801282674089987%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc255Etfw257Ctwcamp255Etweetembed257Ctwterm255E1494801282674089987257Ctwgr255E257Ctwcon255Es1_c1026ref_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fnytimes%2Fstatus%2F1494801282674089987%3Fs%3D2026t%3DVzKtrIjAZaQwQr8xp0GUBQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 06:11:36 PM

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1494782381189963779?s=20&t=mrV_L7IW0I0iUY1iFCXeBg


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FL56ZDHWYAUbhok?format=jpg&name=medium)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 06:15:47 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 05:46:23 PM

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1494801282674089987?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1494801282674089987%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fnytimes%2Fstatus%2F1494801282674089987%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc255Etfw257Ctwcamp255Etweetembed257Ctwterm255E1494801282674089987257Ctwgr255E257Ctwcon255Es1_c1026ref_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fnytimes%2Fstatus%2F1494801282674089987%3Fs%3D2026t%3DVzKtrIjAZaQwQr8xp0GUBQ

Russia better invade and take Kiev or Biden/US going to lose what little shred of credibility they have now.

The headlines and the way they drop is my big issue with the whole thing.

"Breaking News: The U.S. has intelligence that President Vladimir Putin has decided to invade Ukraine and target the capital Kyiv, President Biden said."

Media always runs these sort of headlines and articles and never ask to be shown any of the actual intelligence or the evidence. At least it's a direct quote from the US President and not "anonymous intelligence sources". So, there's that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 06:23:40 PM

I'd add C) who imposed sanctions to try to stop NordStream2 in 2017 and 2019? And who lifted sanctions in 2021 on NordStream2? 

Partisan hacks gonna partisan hack though.

https://twitter.com/tekmark1/status/1494813524652183552?s=20&t=1Z9uu6Hje_AgsHe5cfBzZw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 06:25:28 PM

Not that I give a rat's ass whether or not the US mediots and president lose global credibility, but they can always just state something like, "The leaked intelligence proving we knew his plan, caused Putin to scuttle his scheme and abandon the invasion.  Crisis averted.  You're welcome."

Those who want to believe it, will.  Those who want to disbelieve it, will.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 06:26:25 PM

Oh and Canada sure seems like it sucks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 06:34:23 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 06:26:25 PM

Oh and Canada sure seems like it sucks.

For real. They are classifying peaceful protestors as terrorists- arresting them, freezing their bank accounts, canceling their licenses and vehicle insurance - and these people have zero recourse in a court of law. Even taking away their dogs (why you would bring a dog to a protest, is beyond me) and threatening to euthanize them if the dogs are not picked up within 8 days.

People absolutely should have the right to peaceful protests in Western democracies. The minute any of it gets violent, property destruction, looting, fires - then I'm all for sending in the big guns in and going hot. I felt that in 2020 - when some of those protests weren't protests- they were out and out violent criminal riots and the states response to squashing them- or lack of response I should say- was truly pathetic- and I feel that way now. Law enforcement failed this country back then and the government of Canada is failing it's citizens right now. These people in Canada are not violent, they are not rioting, destroying property or looting. They are completely within their rights to protest peacefully. IF they were doing any of that crap- it'd be a different story.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 06:43:20 PM

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1494692022170664960?s=20&t=nTA1yHrOXGJzKmY_FZYUcw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 06:58:34 PM

there 100% is not a bigger dickbag in all of politics than Justin Trudeau. He basically implies/accuses a woman MP of Jewish descent of being a Nazi sympathizer after she *gasp* dare criticize his handling of the situation and invoking marital law.

Oh and he refuses to apologize to her, says the protestors have "unacceptable views" and that these are illegal protests. The video is actually kind of shocking to watch. Like...did this mf'er really just do that? 

It's seriously astounding. And scary. Pray to god that kind of insane authoritarianism never comes to the US. CNN/MSNBC were crying about Trump over this for 4 years....who knew they should've been screaming at the top of their lungs over the head honcho in Canada, eh. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 06:59:19 PM

"Wrong Ideology" would be a great name for a folk-punk band.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 07:01:18 PM

you have to love the internet...everything always comes back to bite ya. Old photos of Trudeau chumming it up with a literal Nazi....after he calls a Canadian MP Jewish woman a Nazi sympathizer for questioning him.

https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1494397968140619784?s=20&t=TgB0f5sJ_JagY9nMA5o56g

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 18, 2022, 07:17:34 PM

Makes me laugh at all those who said they are moving to Canada for whatever reason

Canada has a leader thats complete and total crazy


at what point will he cause a general uprising cause hes working hard for it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 07:23:22 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 18, 2022, 07:17:34 PM

Makes me laugh at all those who said they are moving to Canada for whatever reason

Canada has a leader thats complete and total crazy

at what point will he cause a general uprising cause hes working hard for it

these are mostly idiots who have never been to Canada and think Canada is some racial paradise and utopia where everyone has healthcare and no one ever gets sick. It's not. Listen to any black hockey player trying to come up through the ranks in the Canadian minors/NHL. They've got stories for days. Yeah it's awesome that everyone has health care - but they often have to wait forever and a day to get said health care. That's why the ones with money and can afford to come here to get procedures done and pay for it rather than wait months on end.

Canada f**king sucks. It's always sucked. Take it from someone who used to live right next door and has been there a lot. It is a frozen waste land. A barren shithole that's filled with nothing but a bunch of f**king weirdos with stupid accents and bad food. That's why anyone in Canada with real money always gets the hell out and comes to Florida.

Mexico >>>>>> Canada. At least Mexico is warm. And fun. And has way better food.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 18, 2022, 07:52:45 PM

What the truckers have done wrong-Blocking bridges which would not have been allowed in the US either

What the truckers have done right - non violent and expressing their complaints in a concise manner

What Canada has done wrong - wont allow non violent protests, declaring martial law,
tapping bank accounts, publishing list of donors, cancelling their insurance, arresting citizens who are just peacefully protesting

What Canada has done right - nothing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 08:00:10 PM

who is Andriy Parubiy- the guy Trudeau is cozying up to in that photo?

He's the founder of the Social National Party of Ukraine, a fascist Neo-Nazi party that used Nazi/SS insignia and worshipped at the altar of Adolf Hitler - whose membership was restricted only to ethnic Ukrainians. The Social National Party of Ukraine would later morph into Svoboda, a far-right nationalist party with ties to Neo-Nazi militias - whose leader Oleh Tyahnybok was one of the three most high profile leaders of the Euromaidan protests – negotiating directly with the ousted Yanukovych regime.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 18, 2022, 08:09:42 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 18, 2022, 07:52:45 PM

What the truckers have done wrong-Blocking bridges which would not have been allowed in the US either

g

Yep, no protesters blocking bridges in the US. 


(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/q5UPlVlTEdM/maxresdefault.jpg)

(https://images.dailyhive.com/20200603133907/EZjgUeuU4AcZB5m-e1591216778816.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 18, 2022, 08:30:07 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on February 18, 2022, 08:09:42 PM

Yep, no protesters blocking bridges in the US.


(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/q5UPlVlTEdM/maxresdefault.jpg)

(https://images.dailyhive.com/20200603133907/EZjgUeuU4AcZB5m-e1591216778816.jpg)

well except for BLM of course

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 08:37:41 PM

https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1494065907840208906?s=20&t=1rz9eB4U857WgWdMsxo_TQ

https://twitter.com/basecampbeers/status/1494066609610100739?s=20&t=1rz9eB4U857WgWdMsxo_TQ

https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1494374457812598790?s=20&t=1rz9eB4U857WgWdMsxo_TQ

https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1493939541710974982?s=20&t=1rz9eB4U857WgWdMsxo_TQ

https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1494006204896620548?s=20&t=1rz9eB4U857WgWdMsxo_TQ

https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1493996239960039429?s=20&t=1rz9eB4U857WgWdMsxo_TQ

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1493975671361744898?s=20&t=1rz9eB4U857WgWdMsxo_TQ

https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1493791081116446734?s=20&t=1rz9eB4U857WgWdMsxo_TQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 18, 2022, 08:41:33 PM

Longhorn.
Wow.
Let it go.

This is why "you people" get called racist.  You treat the BLM marches that deteriorated into riots and looting as an ace on the last hand of Spades.....just jonesing to slam it down and win the hand.

It happened.
It's over.

Those people thought they were being slighted and were sick of it
These people think they're being slighted and are sick of it.

People act out when the evidence for their being slighted is too big to ignore. 
But you're all too giddy to click 'post' on the above entry. 

It's gross.
You're gross.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 08:41:45 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 18, 2022, 06:25:28 PM

Not that I give a rat's ass whether or not the US mediots and president lose global credibility, but they can always just state something like, "The leaked intelligence proving we knew his plan, caused Putin to scuttle his scheme and abandon the invasion.  Crisis averted.  You're welcome."

Those who want to believe it, will.  Those who want to disbelieve it, will.

Not sure I agree. US has basically zero credibility both domestic and around the world, and for good reason, when it comes to "intelligence agencies/intelligence information/war".

I mean I could go on and on about how many times they flat out lied and were dead wrong about pretty huge things and got caught with their pants down time and time again - but that post would take hours to write- there's that much crap in there.

I think it's a massive blow to US credibility around the world if Russia doesn't invade now. You can't have basically no credibility left and then be that cocksure and fan the flames of war that hardcore only for nothing to happen and then you don't lose credibility. Which means if Putin just keeps doing what he's doing and f**king with everyone but never invades - he'll win imo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 08:48:02 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 18, 2022, 08:41:33 PM

Longhorn.
Wow.
Let it go.

This is why "you people" get called racist.  You treat the BLM marches that deteriorated into riots and looting as an ace on the last hand of Spades.....just jonesing to slam it down and win the hand.

It happened.
It's over.

Those people thought they were being slighted and were sick of it
These people think they're being slighted and are sick of it.

People act out when the evidence for their being slighted is too big to ignore. 
But you're all too giddy to click 'post' on the above entry. 

It's gross.
You're gross.

think he's just pointing out blatant hypocrisy and double standards is all. not sure that's racist, but have at it if you will.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 18, 2022, 08:51:46 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on February 18, 2022, 08:09:42 PM

Yep, no protesters blocking bridges in the US.


(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/q5UPlVlTEdM/maxresdefault.jpg)

(https://images.dailyhive.com/20200603133907/EZjgUeuU4AcZB5m-e1591216778816.jpg)

Didn't all that stuff lead to someone passing a law that you could run over those people?

(I personally think that kind of protest is fine, though I also think that some level of forced movement is eventually gonna happen, here or there. I do agree many of those Canadian tactics are decidedly wrong)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 18, 2022, 08:51:51 PM

I know it's not racist.  
Lern too reed bettur.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 18, 2022, 08:56:51 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 18, 2022, 08:51:46 PM

Didn't all that stuff lead to someone passing a law that you could run over those people?

I don't know, but if so then GD that would be fun. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 18, 2022, 09:01:38 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 08:37:41 PM

https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1494065907840208906?s=20&t=1rz9eB4U857WgWdMsxo_TQ

Is this quarterly YoY comparisons against 2020 CQ4 profits?

Because in every business everywhere, that's suspect. Compare against 2019 CQ4.

The pandemic skewed numbers everywhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 09:04:17 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 18, 2022, 09:01:38 PM

Is this quarterly YoY comparisons against 2020 CQ4 profits?

Because in every business everywhere, that's suspect. Compare against 2019 CQ4.

The pandemic skewed numbers everywhere.

f***k I'm an idiot I didn't even think about that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 18, 2022, 09:11:32 PM

OAM just cant let one of my posts go by without calling me a racist

oh wait he said like being racist

yes there is a double standard when it comes to BLM sorry if the truth hurts

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 09:37:55 PM

just looked up Chipotle. Their revenue/sales actually increased by roughly $400 million in 2020 from 2019. And their profit went up by about $6 million in 2020 vs 2019. Revenues in 2020 were $5.9 billion with $356 million in profit.

Their revenue and profit increased drastically from 2021 to 2019 - from $5.5 billion in 2019 with $350 million in profits to $7.5 billion in revenue in 2021 - with $653 million in profits.

Just one scenario, but I think the dude with the original tweet may have been right in this specific case. Haven't dug into the other companies just yet.

edit: and I think the original twitter guy was posting about YoY vs 2020 - but not 100% on that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 09:45:27 PM

I wonder if this could be showing that all the restaurant closures throughout the nation (reportedly as many as 40-60% - gone forever) may be making big chains like Chipotle sales shoot through the roof. They did $1.6 billion more in revenue in one year-  that's pretty astounding. Looking at their sales - they've never made jumps like that the last 5+ years. Not sure that is all attributed to increases in prices.

Tons of local mom and pops gone out of business forever- fewer and fewer dining options- Chipotle snatches up that business. The big boys got the bailouts and are stronger than ever. Wall Street got a whale of a deal while Main Street took it up the you know what.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 10:05:52 PM

We're friends with our local French restaurant owner.   They got bailed out, they said they would not have survived otherwise.  They are still on the edge though.

They don't really do take out, and places like that suffered a lot.  Take out around here has really expanded a lot.  We had lunch at Mukja today and take out is 40% of their business.

It's probably all some massive conspiracy though.  Maybe not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 18, 2022, 10:17:43 PM

Another thing Canada has done is suspend Parliament

I had not realized this

This crazy guy has absolutely no one he has to listen to or that provide any oversight

thats downright scary

how in hell can any country which is supposed to be a democracy allow this to happen

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 10:19:26 PM

Canadian government to suspend Parliament- POLITICO (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/13/canadian-government-to-suspend-parliament-128196)

From 2020

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 10:20:33 PM

Canada's Parliament SUSPENDS debate on Trudeau's Emergencies Act | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10529061/Canadas-Parliament-SUSPENDS-debate-Trudeaus-Emergencies-Act.html)


Canada (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/canada/index.html)'s Parliament suspended Friday's debate on Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's emergency powers, sparing the Liberal leader another day of uncomfortable speeches from MPs who fiercely oppose his use of the draconian Emergencies Act.

MPs were told on Thurday night that due to the 'exceptional circumstances' of police closing in on Freedom Convoy protesters they needed to avoid the area around parliament for their own safety. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 18, 2022, 10:33:05 PM

it will be interesting to see what his excuse is when the protest has been completely put down

will he give up his current power

I think the people will have to force him to do so

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 18, 2022, 10:58:41 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 18, 2022, 09:11:32 PM

OAM just cant let one of my posts go by without calling me a racist

oh wait he said like being racist

yes there is a double standard when it comes to BLM sorry if the truth hurts

How many illiterate MFers are on this thread??

No one called you a racist.
No one said "like being a racist."

I said "called a racist."  You know, the thing you're incorrectly accusing me of doing?  Fer cryin' out loud.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 18, 2022, 11:20:47 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 09:37:55 PM

just looked up Chipotle. Their revenue/sales actually increased by roughly $400 million in 2020 from 2019. And their profit went up by about $6 million in 2020 vs 2019. Revenues in 2020 were $5.9 billion with $356 million in profit.

Their revenue and profit increased drastically from 2021 to 2019 - from $5.5 billion in 2019 with $350 million in profits to $7.5 billion in revenue in 2021 - with $653 million in profits.

Just one scenario, but I think the dude with the original tweet may have been right in this specific case. Haven't dug into the other companies just yet.

edit: and I think the original twitter guy was posting about YoY vs 2020 - but not 100% on that.

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 18, 2022, 09:45:27 PM

I wonder if this could be showing that all the restaurant closures throughout the nation (reportedly as many as 40-60% - gone forever) may be making big chains like Chipotle sales shoot through the roof. They did $1.6 billion more in revenue in one year-  that's pretty astounding. Looking at their sales - they've never made jumps like that the last 5+ years. Not sure that is all attributed to increases in prices.

Tons of local mom and pops gone out of business forever- fewer and fewer dining options- Chipotle snatches up that business. The big boys got the bailouts and are stronger than ever. Wall Street got a whale of a deal while Main Street took it up the you know what.

Yeah, I asked purely because I didn't know...

But it would make perfect sense that the pandemic benefits take out, delivery, and drive through fast food restaurants.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 07:10:19 AM

If a company's SALES go up a lot, their profit usually will follow, without price gouging.  Sales volume is a major creator of profit, you have to sell "X" units to break even, and everything over "X" is going to be highly profitable because your fixed costs are already paid for (labor, overhead, insurance, etc.).

Restaurants that are sit down only because of their food are going to get hurt in any shut down scenario.  Fast food, pizza places, Chipotles of the world, will fare better in comparison.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 07:25:31 AM

This scientist busts myths about how humans burn calories—and why | Science | AAAS (https://www.science.org/content/article/scientist-busts-myths-about-how-humans-burn-calories-and-why?utm_campaign=ScienceNow&utm_source=Social&utm_medium=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3M0J86ONap3IFY3fLp5zXtOMcOt9t8vzGJKGBwr2KRNzPUQlQZumR0lPU)

Interesting, says mental activity burns more calories than thought relative to physical.

No wonder I'm overweight.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 19, 2022, 07:37:20 AM

I want to shoot Chipotle into the sun. Just once. Just one of their restaurants. Shot into the sun. I should have that right.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 07:43:45 AM

I have no specific animus about Chipotle.  My wife likes it, we go on rare occasion, I'm not really a fan.  I've converted her to Willy's lately, I think it's better and it's local.

Chipotle apparently does a good job with their business model.  Their delivery of food is pretty good in my experience, the folks behind the counter are not that friendly, it's not up to Chick-Fil-A standards.  The only reason I go to CFA is their workers are so pleasant, aside from being in a hurry for lunch.  The food is OK.

I have really noticed around here a huge surge in delivery over the past two years, it has continued after the shut downs.  I infer a lot of folks got used to it and like it.  The strange thing is we can walk rather quickly to a number of places, but if we're hard at work (ha) I can see delivery being a plus.  Our front desk often has delivered food sitting on it.  Uber eats et al. must be doing pretty well too.  Grub Hub, might be an investment opportunity?

It takes more energy to shoot something into the Sun than to shoot it out of the Solar System entirely.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 07:52:56 AM

Kirby Smart thought he messed it all up early in Georgia Bulldogs football tenure (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/Kirby-Smart-thought-he-messed-it-all-up-early-in-Georgia-Bulldogs-football-tenure-183028755/)

An interesting comment therein about making tough practices more fun, somehow.  I understand about making practices hard so that the games are "easy", everyone knows that, but to somehow generate fun?  Sounds tough.

I had leaned to thinking Smart was a "decent coach with a ton of talent unlikely to make it to the top" to thinking "Well, OK, he delivered once, and almost before that, so maybe he is a pretty good coach."

But winning it all does take a bit of luck at times, not just having a great team.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 08:06:09 AM

The process for distilling whisky is believed to have been brought to Scotland by monks, sometime between the 12th and 14th centuries, perhaps due to the difficulty in obtaining wine there. Scots acquired a fondness for the beverage, and along with their expertise in distilling it they also developed expertise in avoiding the taxes imposed on it. Scottish immigrants brought both of those skills to the United States and practiced them assiduously.
 

During the aging process some of the whisky evaporates. The monks called this “the angels’ share,” and that's what it is still called today. How quickly the angels take their share depends upon the environment where the aging is occurring. Whereas in Scotland the angels’ share is about 2% per year, it is much greater in Kentucky. It takes about three years for a barrel of spirits aging in Scotland to be reduced as much as an identical barrel aging in Kentucky would be reduced in a single year.

(https://i.imgur.com/3PwpVOW.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 19, 2022, 08:07:46 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 18, 2022, 09:11:32 PM

OAM just cant let one of my posts go by without calling me a racist

Man, he really is the most stereotypical White liberal imaginable. I'm surprised he hasn't edited his user name in order to add his pronouns.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 09:06:14 AM

Speaking in Vilnius, Lithuania, US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said it was apparent that Russia had made a decision and was moving into the right positions to conduct an attack on Ukraine. 
“They’re uncoiling and now poised to strike,” Austin said.
If you look at the stance he is in today, it's apparent [Putin] has made a decision and they are moving into the right positions to conduct an attack.” 
Austin reiterated earlier comments from US President Joe Biden (https://www.com/2022/02/18/politics/joe-biden-russia-ukraine/index.html) that Russian President Vladimir Putin had decided to invade after weeks of the US saying he hadn’t made a decision.
Austin and others in the US continue to say diplomacy is still possible, and he added, “I believe we should try until the very last minute, until it’s not possible.”
Some background: On Friday, President Biden said he believed Russian forces intended to attack Ukraine "in the coming week" or sooner, and that an attack will target the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv.
"As of this moment, I am convinced he's made the decision," Biden said during remarks at the White House.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 09:32:12 AM

Lack of leadership again stings college football as divided interests squash playoff expansion (cbssports.com) (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/lack-of-leadership-again-stings-college-football-as-divided-interests-squash-playoff-expansion/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 09:48:01 AM

I am curious what would be the Story IF Putin does not invade in the next week.  I'm sure it will be something about how the sanctions threats worked etc.  In reality, I'm not sure how we could be so certain he's about to invade, even if troops are moving towards jump off positions.  Obviously, I hope he doesn't, and still think he won't.

But that is more guess than judgment.  

I expect another round of negotiations shortly.  Putin may agree to hold talks somewhere.  Maybe he's all in with a pair of 3s.  How much of a concession would the West grant to forestall an invasion (or pretext of one)????

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 19, 2022, 09:49:49 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 09:32:12 AM

Lack of leadership again stings college football as divided interests squash playoff expansion (cbssports.com) (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/lack-of-leadership-again-stings-college-football-as-divided-interests-squash-playoff-expansion/)

this article says 4 administrators were givin the assignment to come up with a plan for playoff expansion

administrators for what and who chose them

I reread several times and just couldnt figure out who these folks are

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 19, 2022, 10:02:16 AM

https://twitter.com/michaelh992/status/1494943477813190657?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1494943477813190657%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmichaelh992%2Fstatus%2F1494943477813190657%3Fs%3D21

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 19, 2022, 10:26:17 AM

Today is one of those days that has evolved into me sleeping deep into the morning. I think that’s good, right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 19, 2022, 10:31:23 AM

mornings have always been special to me

there very few problems that can't be solved while sitting there drinking that first cup of coffee

its amazing how many of the world's problems I have solved as well

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 19, 2022, 10:40:43 AM

For some reason I wake up earlier on the weekends then I do during the work week, even though I stay up later. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 19, 2022, 10:40:49 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 19, 2022, 10:26:17 AM

Today is one of those days that has evolved into me sleeping deep into the morning. I think that’s good, right?

What's that like? I don't believe I can recall the last time it's happened...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 11:03:28 AM

I thought I'd sleep late when I retired, I hated getting up to go to work.  It wasn't the getting up part apparently.  I awoke today at 6:17 AM, fully rested.

Coffee is good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 19, 2022, 11:32:49 AM

Ive always been a morning person

did all my school studying in the morning

I found if I studied in the morning I retained it longer

My brain kinda turns mushy past noon

Just call me Homer who said every time I learn something new something old gets pushed out

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 19, 2022, 11:55:43 AM

china starting to get annoyed with russia's shit too.

https://twitter.com/noahbarkin/status/1494999291802312708

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 19, 2022, 12:04:15 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 19, 2022, 11:55:43 AM

china starting to get annoyed with russia's shit too.

https://twitter.com/noahbarkin/status/1494999291802312708

also...

(https://geektechnica.com/wp-content/uploads/1ekw86.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2022, 12:21:19 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 19, 2022, 11:32:49 AM

Ive always been a morning person

did all my school studying in the morning

I found if I studied in the morning I retained it longer

My brain kinda turns mushy past noon

Just call me Homer who said every time I learn something new something old gets pushed out

well, if you start drinking at noon............

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2022, 12:22:51 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 19, 2022, 09:49:49 AM

this article says 4 administrators were givin the assignment to come up with a plan for playoff expansion

administrators for what and who chose them

I reread several times and just couldnt figure out who these folks are

The CFP is set to remain a four-team format through the 2025 season after the administrators who manage the postseason failed to agree on a plan to expand before the current contracts run out.

What started with an enthusiastic unveiling of a plan for a 12-team playoff last summer has come to a halt. The college sports leaders tasked with working out the details are at an impasse.

“Seems like everyone says they’re committed to expand the CFP, but it’s hard to believe that because we can’t expand the CFP,” Sun Belt Commissioner Keith Gill told The AP.

The management committee, comprised of 10 conference commissioners and Notre Dame’s athletic director, met by video conference earlier this week.

https://apnews.com/article/college-football-sports-college-sports-football-c20bffc88444fc8f2fc33c0a857c2eef (https://apnews.com/article/college-football-sports-college-sports-football-c20bffc88444fc8f2fc33c0a857c2eef)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 12:25:16 PM

I started doing my taxes.  Yup/:smiley_confused1::73::confuse:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2022, 12:37:13 PM

I'm going back to the accountant after 2 seasons on my own.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 19, 2022, 12:43:09 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 19, 2022, 11:32:49 AM

Ive always been a morning person

did all my school studying in the morning

I found if I studied in the morning I retained it longer

My brain kinda turns mushy past noon

Just call me Homer who said every time I learn something new something old gets pushed out

I don't remember that part of The Odyssey...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 19, 2022, 12:45:22 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 19, 2022, 12:43:09 PM

I don't remember that part of The Odyssey...

Its there just ask Mr Smithers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 19, 2022, 12:47:45 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 19, 2022, 12:37:13 PM

I'm going back to the accountant after 2 seasons on my own.

Turbo Tax has always been sufficient for me you must be running some complicated drug deals or something

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 01:51:06 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 19, 2022, 12:37:13 PM

I'm going back to the accountant after 2 seasons on my own.

I really think it would be tougher to use a preparer than to use TT myself.  It would take a while to explain a few things I think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2022, 02:45:22 PM

used turbotax the past two seasons

had my financial advisor help me with some of the investment stuff that generated taxable income or whatever

forms required

out of state - South Dakota filing this season from Dec 9th
some unemployment benefits for a few months

just more complex than usual

I'm sure I could guess my way thru with turbotax but it might not be accurate

maybe I'll give TT a try and just see how it goes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 19, 2022, 02:52:17 PM

TurboTax works for me, but admittedly my filling is rather simple. I don't even have enough deductions to itemize.

The hardest bit is accurately putting in capital gain/loss from ESPP and RSU sales because they sometimes show up as zero cost basis and I need to use my E-Trade supplemental documents to find the adjusted cost basis.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2022, 03:06:18 PM

that sounds familiar

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 19, 2022, 03:09:10 PM

I use Turbotax mostly because they save everyone's social security numbers so I don't have to go looking for them again

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 19, 2022, 03:13:04 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on February 19, 2022, 03:09:10 PM

I use Turbotax mostly because they save everyone's social security numbers so I don't have to go looking for them again

I uses TT Premier and it does everything I need including one free state return

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 19, 2022, 05:55:10 PM

I do mine on TT and one year, I went into one of those big-name tax places.  They came out with exactly the same thing I did.  So I said "thank you" and walked right out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 19, 2022, 05:56:54 PM

Did the big stuff for my move this morning.  Just have a couple small trips to make otherwise and clean-up.  

I'm tired and my right bicep keeps spasming.  This sedentary lifestyle really hurts once you hit 40.  I can't just play Superman for a few hours and bounce right back.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 05:58:07 PM

It would be unusual for one of "us" to get a different figure at some tax prep place if the inputs are the same.  It isn't magic, and they use software much like TT et al.

The main thing I like is how TT downloads my info from Schwab automagically.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 19, 2022, 06:21:36 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 05:58:07 PM

It would be unusual for one of "us" to get a different figure at some tax prep place if the inputs are the same.  It isn't magic, and they use software much like TT et al.

The main thing I like is how TT downloads my info from Schwab automagically.

I love that plus your bank if you need it to

I also like electronic filing

Because my return is fairly simple I can do the Federal as well as a state return and file them in under two hours

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 06:29:39 PM

Before TT became an option, I had worked an Excel spreadsheet to do my taxes.  I still had to copy the results over, but I could enter into the input places and it would calculate everything for me.  When I was still working my taxes were fairly simple, some interest and dividends and the occasional stock sale.

One year I converted my IRA to a Roth and the market promptly dropped, I guess it was 2008, maybe 2000, and I reconverted it back.  When we bought the condo here, financing was last second and I pulled money from my IRA into checking.  The financing worked out and I converted it back.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on February 19, 2022, 06:56:40 PM

MDot, 

First off, You’re one angry guy. Maybe Raegan and his cronies promised Gorbachev they wouldn’t expand east. So what?  Presidents change. Gorbachev knew this. No treaty, no promise. 

You act like you know so much. Are you getting classified briefings, knowledge of top secret information, intercepts, and other intelligence?  No, and neither are any of us on this board. 

I don’t like it one bit, and we all know the US has bungled many other war plans and done far too much meddling in other countries business. Some turned out bad, and I’m betting some turned out good. 

I’m no fan of Biden, nor was I a fan of trump. Hopefully the situation can be de-escalated before it turns into something bigger. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 19, 2022, 08:14:28 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 05:58:07 PM

It would be unusual for one of "us" to get a different figure at some tax prep place if the inputs are the same.  It isn't magic, and they use software much like TT et al.

Then they shouldn't be charging people anything.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2022, 08:22:54 PM

PARIS (AP) — A modeling agent who was close to disgraced U.S. financier Jeffrey Epstein was found dead Saturday in his French jail cell, where he was being held in an investigation into the rape and sex trafficking of minors, according to the Paris prosecutor’s office.

Paris police are investigating Jean-Luc Brunel’s death at the historic La Sante prison in Paris, the prosecutor’s office said.

Victims of his alleged abuse described shock and dismay that the 75-year-old, a well-known model scout in the 1980s and 1990s who ran different agencies in Paris and New York, will never face trial. They called his death as a double blow after Epstein killed himself in 2019 in a Manhattan jail while awaiting sex-trafficking charges.

Brunel’s lawyers suggested Saturday that he, too, killed himself. In a statement, they described his “distress” at his incarceration and his repeated requests for a provisional release from the prison.


https://apnews.com/article/europe-arts-and-entertainment-paris-jeffrey-epstein-edfbdb84c6cdd5f736ac7e1c2bac657b (https://apnews.com/article/europe-arts-and-entertainment-paris-jeffrey-epstein-edfbdb84c6cdd5f736ac7e1c2bac657b)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on February 19, 2022, 10:57:31 PM

I always knew about this but this weekend got to experience it, Detroit doesn't seem to care about snow removal despite its location and 100s of years of snowy winters.  It snowed a little bit here the other night and yep, good luck moving around on any non major roadways.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 19, 2022, 11:41:29 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on February 19, 2022, 10:57:31 PM

I always knew about this but this weekend got to experience it, Detroit doesn't seem to care about snow removal despite its location and 100s of years of snowy winters.  It snowed a little bit here the other night and yep, good luck moving around on any non major roadways.

why I dont live where it snows

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 20, 2022, 12:44:10 AM

I have to work off six tax forms this year, and am still waiting on one. Plus I moved states in the middle of the year with the same job, which I’m told is a curve ball (?).

So all prayers for me and my war with free tax USA area appreciated 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 07:43:10 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 19, 2022, 08:14:28 PM

Then they shouldn't be charging people anything.

What they should or shouldn't do is irrelevant, but obviously they are a for profit operation.  There is a reason they set up in Walmarts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 20, 2022, 08:17:36 AM

This is complete BS.

Video purports to show man being removed from plane over 'Let's Go Brandon' mask | Fox Business (https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/video-purports-show-man-being-removed-plane-lets-go-brandon-mask)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 08:20:04 AM

"purports"????

I'm guessing there is more to the story.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 08:20:49 AM

John Bolton: Putin has 'incentive' to drag out Ukraine crisis | TheHill (https://thehill.com/policy/international/595053-john-bolton-putin-has-incentive-to-drag-out-ukraine-crisis)

I'm not an admirer of his at all, but I think he's aligned with my thoughts here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 20, 2022, 08:35:10 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 08:20:04 AM

"purports"????

I'm guessing there is more to the story.

Sure there is. We now know who the flight attendant voted for.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 08:44:37 AM

I don't trust these stories.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 20, 2022, 09:14:17 AM

Good trhing I didn't wear my shirt 😳 (tiktok.com) (https://www.tiktok.com/@dgotch/video/7064673688838245678)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 20, 2022, 09:15:11 AM

The last time I flew Allegiant, I wore my let's go Brandon shirt.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 20, 2022, 09:29:42 AM

I've got a friend who lives in DC named Brandon, he's a huge Dem supporter.  I like to text him things like, "Hey, we're planning that couple vacation for July, and we need to know which dates work for you.  The other guys have let me know, but we're still waiting for you.  Let's Go, Brandon!"

I do this every couple of weeks or so.  It amuses me.  Him, not so much. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 09:32:56 AM

The flight crew on an airplane has virtually absolute authority over anyone else, the Captain is basically a dictator, he can tell the President what to do, legally.

I find fairly often that news videos don't show the entire episode and perhaps the FA told him to put his mask over his nose or somesuch and he refused.

He or she can boot him at that point, and would.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 20, 2022, 09:41:34 AM

Can't we all agree that "Let's go Brandon" is just about the dumbest 'joke' ever? 

A week or three, tops, would have been appropriate staying power for it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 09:43:00 AM

I've heard some pretty dumb jokes.  I view this one with minor amusement, and expect it has legs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 20, 2022, 09:54:07 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 09:43:00 AM

I've heard some pretty dumb jokes.  I view this one with minor amusement, and expect it has legs.

When it first happened, and with the fervor with which everyone jumped on it, I assumed that it had actually been Biden or some prominent Dem trying to deflect the chant. THAT would be worth making it a thing.

The fact that it was a freakin' NASCAR announcer that said it? Kinda pulls the wind out of the sails on that one. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 20, 2022, 10:00:00 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 20, 2022, 09:54:07 AM

When it first happened, and with the fervor with which everyone jumped on it, I assumed that it had actually been Biden or some prominent Dem trying to deflect the chant. THAT would be worth making it a thing.

The fact that it was a freakin' NASCAR announcer that said it? Kinda pulls the wind out of the sails on that one.

Except it was not an announcer.



On Oct. 2, Brandon Brown won his first Xfinity Series Nascar race at the Talladega Superspeedway. NBC Sports reporter Kelli Stavast interviewed Brown following his win on the race track with a crowd behind him chanting "Fuck Joe Biden," which has been often chanted at US sporting events over the past several months.

During the interview (https://youtu.be/u9UjgITXUJ4), Stavast remarks about the crowd saying, "You can hear the chants from the crowd. Let's go Brandon."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 10:00:13 AM

It reminds me of the old "saying" "S^&* happens" that sort of caught fire way back (Gump days).  Duh.  It was never "funny", perhaps mildly amusing, not even insightful.

But it was fairly popular for a time, as one example.  Folks can of course say or post "FJB" and mean the same thing, but it's viewed as more clever I suppose to say LGB.  

I personally would neither say it nor feature it on my person.  It is a way for folks to display their politics in public, much as wearing a face mask when it's clearly not needed is a means of doing this.  (I understand it when I see an Asian wearing one, they likely were three years ago also.)

Wearing a face mask today (when it's clearly unneeded) is a way to signal "I'm a woke liberal who hates DT".  Ok then.  (It's also a way to keep your face warm.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 20, 2022, 10:02:39 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 20, 2022, 10:00:00 AM

Except it was not an announcer.

On Oct. 2, Brandon Brown won his first Xfinity Series Nascar race at the Talladega Superspeedway. NBC Sports reporter Kelli Stavast interviewed Brown following his win on the race track with a crowd behind him chanting "Fuck Joe Biden," which has been often chanted at US sporting events over the past several months.

During the interview (https://youtu.be/u9UjgITXUJ4), Stavast remarks about the crowd saying, "You can hear the chants from the crowd. Let's go Brandon."

Okay, so it was a pit reporter. A nobody. This wasn't exactly the NBC Nightly News with Lester Holt. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 20, 2022, 10:14:45 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 20, 2022, 10:02:39 AM

Okay, so it was a pit reporter. A nobody. This wasn't exactly the NBC Nightly News with Lester Holt.

Well it’s not really a joke anymore. It’s a way for people to say F Joe Biden without actually having to swear.  you remember/ how they used to do with Trump except for they would say it including many of our wonderful elites who had the microphone.  Heard it live minimally once a week from some well-known person somewhere. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 20, 2022, 10:27:24 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 08:44:37 AM

I don't trust these stories.

looks pretty self evident to me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 20, 2022, 10:34:02 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 09:32:56 AM

The flight crew on an airplane has virtually absolute authority over anyone else, the Captain is basically a dictator, he can tell the President what to do, legally.

I find fairly often that news videos don't show the entire episode and perhaps the FA told him to put his mask over his nose or somesuch and he refused.

He or she can boot him at that point, and would.

do they boot for BLM signs on masks or anti Trump sign on masks if so then no problem but I would be surprised

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 20, 2022, 10:36:09 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 20, 2022, 09:41:34 AM

Can't we all agree that "Let's go Brandon" is just about the dumbest 'joke' ever?

A week or three, tops, would have been appropriate staying power for it.

I think it becomes more relevant every day

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 20, 2022, 10:44:51 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 20, 2022, 12:44:10 AM

I have to work off six tax forms this year, and am still waiting on one. Plus I moved states in the middle of the year with the same job, which I’m told is a curve ball (?).

So all prayers for me and my war with free tax USA area appreciated

my job moved states

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 20, 2022, 10:55:55 AM

Yeah LGB isn't a joke, it's a catch phrase.  That means by definition it's catchy among the people who think and say such things.

And, since it's a direct retort from people who heard the other team openly say "Fuck Trump" for four years, I don't expect it'll go away until the next person takes office.

Personally I feel the office of the president should be respected regardless of who occupies it.  I haven't agreed with the majority of political policies from any of our presidents over the past 20 years or so, but I'd never say "Fuck ______" because I don't think it's appropriate.  That is of course just my opinion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 20, 2022, 10:57:19 AM

the "F" bomb doesn't impress me

regardless of usage 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 20, 2022, 11:00:44 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 20, 2022, 10:57:19 AM

the "F" bomb doesn't impress me

regardless of usage

Yeah it rarely projects an image of intellectual strength, that's for sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 20, 2022, 11:14:45 AM

so thats what folks really mean when they say "Lets Go Longhorns"

wow never knew

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 20, 2022, 11:37:11 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 20, 2022, 10:57:19 AM

the "F" bomb doesn't impress me

regardless of usage

EFF the "Skers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 20, 2022, 11:41:03 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 20, 2022, 11:00:44 AM

Yeah it rarely projects an image of intellectual strength, that's for sure.

i reckon that's one way to describe it- and it was the one grandma used.  another way is more reflective of the culture one comes from... reminds me of a tale that describes a certain culture renown for their vulgar vocabulary:

Quote

Several Marines were invited to the White House to meet the President and then attend a ball.  They were told to dress in Blues and wear every award and to remain stoic throughout the event, and "they'd be alright- nothing to fear if you don't speak much" (this kinda shit scares Marines more than three divisions of red army closing in on all sides)... The Commandant was to attend as well, which altered the mood of the lowly captain who was in charge of these Marines where the pageant didn't. 

All went well, in the end... with the exception, it could be said, of one slight incident.

The wife of a long standing senator approached one of the lower ranking Marines during the event after noticing he was more akin to a statue than a person- and considered he may need refreshments or just a few words to feel more comfortable.  She approached the Marine, a Lance Corporal, and asked if he would like a little Caviar... The Marine responded in a soft and courteous tone that didn't match the words- he said "No Mam,. but thank you.  I don't eat that fuckin' shit."..

Appalled, the well known socialite wife of the senator sought out the commander, and seeing the Commandant on the other side of the room who she had conversed with many times prior, she makes haste to his position.  She informs the Commandant of the situation and the response from that Marine and... she awaits his response.  The Commandant pauses for a moment as his eyes seek to identify this Marine, and when he finally finds him he allows the slightest of snarls to cross his face before he responds to the lady "well... fuck him.. let him starve, then". 

point being... y'all or anyone else can pass judgement all you'd like about how someone looks or speaks, but in almost every case that language is a result of the culture and those they interact with most often.  Street language is an attempt to 'code word', cursing with abrupt language by Marines (armed services et al) is conditioned that the language used in extreme situations isn't a lot different, speaking in pleasantries and precise verbiage while exercising expansive lexicons is demonstration in some circles that "hey- i'm smart! listen to me! hear how smart i am?!".... and serves no purpose other than that.  and all the while language, to those who actually know how to communicate, is always altered to the simplest means of getting a message across that the most can understand without question".  and that point being "you're not well served by judging someone by their language... that was grandma's adage , who didn't get out much, and based on politeness alone".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 20, 2022, 11:43:46 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 20, 2022, 08:17:36 AM

This is complete BS.

Video purports to show man being removed from plane over 'Let's Go Brandon' mask | Fox Business (https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/video-purports-show-man-being-removed-plane-lets-go-brandon-mask)

Correct. It is deeply shoddy journalism. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 20, 2022, 11:45:33 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 20, 2022, 09:41:34 AM

Can't we all agree that "Let's go Brandon" is just about the dumbest 'joke' ever?

A week or three, tops, would have been appropriate staying power for it.

It's only a joke if you get it!!! Who the hell is Brandon? 😵

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 20, 2022, 11:50:27 AM

oh, it doesn't offend me or hurt my delicate ears

I try not to judge folks by their language or any other trait

I understand vocabulary comes from the environment 

I'm just not impressed.  Even folks from different backgrounds have other choices than the F bomb

it just becomes a habit like any other vocabulary choice

I have a colleague that replies to most things he agrees with "exactly"

I'm sure in due time he'll turn to another term of affirmation

it's just his habit 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 20, 2022, 11:54:23 AM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on February 20, 2022, 11:41:03 AM

i reckon that's one way to describe it- and it was the one grandma used.  another way is more reflective of the culture one comes from... reminds me of a tale that describes a certain culture renown for their vulgar vocabulary:


point being... y'all or anyone else can pass judgement all you'd like about how someone looks or speaks, but in almost every case that language is a result of the culture and those they interact with most often.  Street language is an attempt to 'code word', cursing with abrupt language by Marines (armed services et al) is conditioned that the language used in extreme situations isn't a lot different, speaking in pleasantries and precise verbiage while exercising expansive lexicons is demonstration in some circles that "hey- i'm smart! listen to me! hear how smart i am?!".... and serves no purpose other than that.  and all the while language, to those who actually know how to communicate, is always altered to the simplest means of getting a message across that the most can understand without question".  and that point being "you're not well served by judging someone by their language... that was grandma's adage , who didn't get out much, and based on politeness alone".

I hear what you're saying, but showing respect for others often includes making concessions to language.  Whether it's avoiding vulgarity, or attempting to speak even some small level of the local language in a foreign country, it's an indicator of regard and compromise.

It's basic and easy stuff and I find the people who insist on using vulgarity in a situation where it's clearly uncalled for are either stupid, or selfish, or both.

It shouldn't be hard to switch conversational modes depending on audience.  I don't speak to the Executive Vice President of my division at the company I work for, in the same manner I speak to my best friends from high school or college.  Read the room, know your audience, etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 20, 2022, 12:53:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 07:43:10 AM

What they should or shouldn't do is irrelevant, but obviously they are a for profit operation.  There is a reason they set up in Walmarts.

There's an interesting argument about the whole tax prep process. Basically, it could be streamlined to a large degree. The majority of folks are engaging in a theater of checking the math, without really having a great grasp of the math. Like, the government has all our docs and could just run the stuff themselves, mail us some forms, say "check this, re-do if there's a reason to," and go from there. 

The modestly-logical argument against that is that people will not really check, and extra charges will get slipped by us. I guess this makes sense, though I kind of doubt people have a 360 degree grasp of all their tax stuff.

The more cynical argument is that the tax prep lobby is powerful and well funded. QuickBooks Online, TurboTax Online and Credit Karma are one company and earned $6.6 billion. That's a lot of lost revenue for someone. 

And the most cynical take, which I don't have much time for but find intersting to think about, is that people feeling poorly about taxes is a great base for political messaging, and some folks in those roles would prefer that agreement level remain high. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 01:11:09 PM

I recall the political promises of tax returns on a post card.  And yes, the IRS mostly could do our taxes for us.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 20, 2022, 01:37:27 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 20, 2022, 11:43:46 AM

Correct. It is deeply shoddy journalism.

why was the video shoddy journalism or were you just kidding

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 01:47:16 PM

Yes, federal law requires every person to wear a face covering that covers the nose and mouth at all times while traveling. Face coverings must be made of a solid material, fully cover the mouth and nose, fit snugly against the face, and be secured under the chin. Prohibited coverings include those with exhalation valves, holes (such as lace or mesh), neck gaiters, and bandanas. Face shields may be worn in addition to a face covering, but not as an alternative.

Learn more about the CDC’s face covering recommendations here (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html).


From Allegiant web site.  the man's mask was rather loose and dropped below his nose often.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 20, 2022, 02:00:56 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 01:47:16 PM

Yes, federal law requires every person to wear a face covering that covers the nose and mouth at all times while traveling. Face coverings must be made of a solid material, fully cover the mouth and nose, fit snugly against the face, and be secured under the chin. Prohibited coverings include those with exhalation valves, holes (such as lace or mesh), neck gaiters, and bandanas. Face shields may be worn in addition to a face covering, but not as an alternative.

Learn more about the CDC’s face covering recommendations here (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html).


From Allegiant web site.  the man's mask was rather loose and dropped below his nose often.

that would be fine if the flight attendant hadnt mentioned the logo on the mask which appears to be the reason

I didnt hear anything about mask  fitting improperly

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 20, 2022, 02:03:51 PM

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=you+tube+chritmas+story+fudge&t=iphone&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D8KUZro9rwVg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 02:04:24 PM

I didn't understand what was said, and this may well have been "outside the lines".

I like to get other other side of the story in such cases.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 20, 2022, 02:08:38 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 02:04:24 PM

I didn't understand what was said, and this may well have been "outside the lines".

I like to get other other side of the story in such cases.

CD you can hear very clearly what was said

kinda hard to have another side when both sides were presented very clearly in the video

she wanted him to put on a different mask with no LGB logo
he refused and was thrown off the plane

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 20, 2022, 02:10:13 PM

again I have no problem with airlines not allowing political messages as long as they enforce it for all points of view

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 02:12:47 PM

I don't hear so well, the convo was muddled to me, as I stated.  The airline should have this policy of no politics clearly stated.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 20, 2022, 02:25:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 02:12:47 PM

I don't hear so well, the convo was muddled to me, as I stated.  The airline should have this policy of no politics clearly stated.

maybe they do and if so that should have been stated

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 02:25:18 PM

Op-ed: Europe’s future rests on whether the West can counter Putin’s threats to Ukraine (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/20/op-ed-europes-future-rests-on-whether-the-west-can-counter-putins-threats-to-ukraine.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 20, 2022, 02:34:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 02:25:18 PM

Op-ed: Europe’s future rests on whether the West can counter Putin’s threats to Ukraine (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/20/op-ed-europes-future-rests-on-whether-the-west-can-counter-putins-threats-to-ukraine.html)

so do you agree 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 02:37:26 PM

It's a long article, some of it is stating facts, some is opinion, I doubt I agree with all of it.

I think the Munich "parallel" is very strained, and is misunderstood in history which often blames Chamberlain.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 20, 2022, 05:09:47 PM

regardless of policies or politics

or right or wrong

when on a plane, do as you are told by the flight crew - they are the authority 

fight your battle after exiting the aircraft

or suffer the consequences 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 20, 2022, 05:22:27 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 20, 2022, 10:14:45 AM

Well it’s not really a joke anymore. It’s a way for people to say F Joe Biden without actually having to swear.  you remember/ how they used to do with Trump except for they would say it including many of our wonderful elites who had the microphone.  Heard it live minimally once a week from some well-known person somewhere.

Eh. If you want to say FJB, say FJB. Speaking in code just tells me you're too much of a coward to drop a F bomb even though you think FJB is an appropriate thing to say. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 20, 2022, 05:30:50 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 20, 2022, 01:37:27 PM

why was the video shoddy journalism or were you just kidding

The mealy mouthed language and weird sourcing is bad journalism. 

"Video from Libs of TikTok purportedly says ..." 

You don't have to publish until you get something useful. People are generally mad about the shoddiness from media, and possibly the most influential and important outlet should do better. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 20, 2022, 05:33:57 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 20, 2022, 02:10:13 PM

again I have no problem with airlines not allowing political messages as long as they enforce it for all points of view

I kind of do. I mean, they totally could do that if they wanted, but I'd sort of have a problem with it. Wear what you want, for the most part. 

That said, if a staffer went rogue and started something for sort of silly reasons, they should be disciplined (probably not fired because I think as a society we're super, super fast in calling for people to be fired)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 20, 2022, 06:27:02 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 20, 2022, 05:33:57 PM

I kind of do. I mean, they totally could do that if they wanted, but I'd sort of have a problem with it. Wear what you want, for the most part.

That said, if a staffer went rogue and started something for sort of silly reasons, they should be disciplined (probably not fired because I think as a society we're super, super fast in calling for people to be fired)

no different then on this forum which does not allow politics except on certain threads

when youre private you have that right as long as you dont discriminate

at 30 thousand feet you dont want any fights breaking out over what a shirt says

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 06:49:57 PM

If an item of clothing seems likely to cause dissension, I can understand it being disallowed.  That's a fine line.  Would a BLM mask be allowed?  A Che Guevera shirt?

How about F Donald Trump?  Whatever their policy, it should be spelled out on their web site and explained to passengers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 20, 2022, 06:55:36 PM

For big advocates of free speech but who also support expanded privatization of large sectors of our society, those 2 things are inevitably at odds.  Please understand this.

Our free speech ends when implementing the services of a company, no matter how widespread or mainstream it happens to get.  Twitter, airlines,......perhaps schools in the future.....all our free speech is gone when a handful of companies owns everything and provides us everything.


We're at their whim when it comes to what we can say and display. 
Just consider that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 07:00:28 PM

Who supports more privatization of large sectors of our economy?  What sectors would those comprise?  Airlines are privately owned today, so are many schools.  Twitter?

I'm not sure what large sector of our economy could be privatized much more than it already is.  The police?  Military?  You seem to be talking about an oligopoly where a few companies run nearly everything, which is not the case today obviously, and few want it to be the case.

There is a difference between having things privatized and having those things run by a handful of companies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 20, 2022, 07:09:39 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 07:00:28 PM

Who supports more privatization of large sectors of our economy?  What sectors would those comprise?  Airlines are privately owned today, so are many schools.  Twitter?

I'm not sure what large sector of our economy could be privatized much more than it already is.  The police?  Military?  You seem to be talking about an oligopoly where a few companies run nearly everything, which is not the case today obviously, and few want it to be the case.

There is a difference between having things privatized and having those things run by a handful of companies.

social media

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 07:12:29 PM

OK, so a small portion of our economy is dominated NOW by Facebook and Twitter.  What large sector of our economy COULD be privatized from here?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 20, 2022, 07:47:56 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 07:00:28 PM

Who supports more privatization of large sectors of our economy?  What sectors would those comprise?  Airlines are privately owned today, so are many schools.  Twitter?

I'm not sure what large sector of our economy could be privatized much more than it already is.  The police?  Military?  You seem to be talking about an oligopoly where a few companies run nearly everything, which is not the case today obviously, and few want it to be the case.

There is a difference between having things privatized and having those things run by a handful of companies.

I was mostly considering schools.  Here in AZ, the republican state senate would dismantle public education and exclusively privatize it if they could.  
Who wants more privatization?  Are you kidding?

The bold part above is abjectly false.  I think if you were 25 years old, you'd understand why.  Our economic system inevitably leads to only a handfew of companies owning everything - on a long-enough timeline. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 08:45:30 PM

Hilarious 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 08:59:58 PM

Students don’t have free speech now

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 20, 2022, 10:13:49 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 20, 2022, 06:27:02 PM

no different then on this forum which does not allow politics except on certain threads

when youre private you have that right as long as you dont discriminate

at 30 thousand feet you dont want any fights breaking out over what a shirt says

I'm not saying they can't (and if they want, they can discriminate).

I have a problem with it because I think it would be sort of chintzy and weird. While you're wearing something that implies a curse, it doesn't actually say it. I just think such a thing would be dumb. It could be allowed, but I'd say, "well that's kinda dumb" And at 30,000 feet, I hope that people can act like grown a*% adults. 

(TBF, I preferred the old politics rules, but the world changes and we must adapt)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 04:32:59 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 20, 2022, 07:47:56 PM

The bold part above is abjectly false.  I think if you were 25 years old, you'd understand why.  Our economic system inevitably leads to only a handfew of companies owning everything - on a long-enough timeline.

Other than the egg lobby, our economy is extremely fragmented and is not an oligopoly at all.   There is a nice table in the link below showing the major sectors of our economy, there are MANY, and they reflect the fact we have MANY businesses.  The US was close to an oligopoly circa 1890, it's not remotely close today.  

2021 U.S. GDP By Industry (forbes.com)


Looking at industry groups on the broadest level, the group with the largest GDP in Q1 2021 is Finance, insurance, real estate, rental, and leasing, with approximately $7.87 trillion in output. In second place is Manufacturing, with a GDP of $6.4 trillion; this is followed by Professional and business services, with a reported $4.5 trillion in gross output for Q1 2021.


The smallest company on the S&P 500 has a market cap of over $14 billion.
 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewdepietro/2021/08/23/2021-us-gdp-by-industry/?sh=55baad626970)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 21, 2022, 07:27:48 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 01:47:16 PM

Yes, federal law requires every person to wear a face covering that covers the nose and mouth at all times while traveling. Face coverings must be made of a solid material, fully cover the mouth and nose, fit snugly against the face, and be secured under the chin. Prohibited coverings include those with exhalation valves, holes (such as lace or mesh), neck gaiters, and bandanas. Face shields may be worn in addition to a face covering, but not as an alternative.

Learn more about the CDC’s face covering recommendations here (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html).


From Allegiant web site.  the man's mask was rather loose and dropped below his nose often.

I missed the votes in the house and senate on this, and the executive signing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 08:38:11 AM

More properly it would read that Congress has vested the FAA with the power to make this a law, in effect, an enforceable regulation.

This is pretty common with regulatory agencies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 21, 2022, 08:55:01 AM

The 4th branch of government is deep in this country.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 21, 2022, 09:00:20 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 21, 2022, 08:55:01 AM

The 4th branch of government is deep in this country.

Heh. It means they’re not law enforcement. They’re what? Regulation enforcement?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 09:05:30 AM

Well, if you break a regulatory rule, you can of course be fined, a lot.  Congress has chosen to vest these agencies with "police powers".  Congress would have no idea, no good ideas, about how to regulate safe workplaces for example.  (OSHA might not either in some cases.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 09:25:14 AM

Getting it Right: Time and Distance on Foot and Horse | Celebrating Independent Authors (indiesunlimited.com) (https://indiesunlimited.com/2020/03/24/getting-it-right-time-and-distance-on-foot-and-horse/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 09:31:08 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 20, 2022, 10:13:49 PM

(TBF, I preferred the old politics rules, but the world changes and we must adapt)

We found that they were inevitably spilling over into discussions, and so we've kind of tried to limit it to just one thread-- this one.  It hasn't been perfect but I think it's a little better than watching it pop up all over.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 21, 2022, 09:36:37 AM

Politics doesn't come up all that often here.

Policy does.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 21, 2022, 10:02:13 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 09:31:08 AM

We found that they were inevitably spilling over into discussions, and so we've kind of tried to limit it to just one thread-- this one.  It hasn't been perfect but I think it's a little better than watching it pop up all over.

Yeah. I remember. And the COVID thing put a lot of stress on it. Still, the days when more nakedly political posts were zapped was nice, at least to me.

but I understand I am a small constituency and the will of the group carries forth. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 21, 2022, 10:13:43 AM

Im not interested in soccer so I dont click on that thread

amazing how well that works

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 10:17:10 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 21, 2022, 10:13:43 AM

Im not interested in soccer so I dont click on that thread

amazing how well that works

In general I agree, but this thread specifically is all over the place.  A lot of times it's nothing more than "in other news" but then current events tend to lead to political discussions.  Drawing the line is tough so in this thread we really don't.

Of course, the same principle can be applied to posts or specific posters.  If you know you're not going to like it or agree with it, then you can always just ignore the words and move on.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 21, 2022, 10:27:06 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 10:17:10 AM

In general I agree, but this thread specifically is all over the place.  A lot of times it's nothing more than "in other news" but then current events tend to lead to political discussions.  Drawing the line is tough so in this thread we really don't.

Of course, the same principle can be applied to posts or specific posters.  If you know you're not going to like it or agree with it, then you can always just ignore the words and move on.

I do have to admit there are certain posters that I know will post something I dont agree with but I just am unable to not click on it just out of curiosity but its still my choice

I look at this thread like reading the front page of a newspaper meaning I scan for what is interesting to me and skip the rest

now if we could somehow keep CD from posting mile long posts about things like how fast a horse walks we will be accomplishing something

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 21, 2022, 10:56:09 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 21, 2022, 10:13:43 AM

Im not interested in soccer so I dont click on that thread

amazing how well that works

I guess I'd start by pointing out, you don't seem all that interested in Big Ten sports. Yet you are on a Big Ten message board, so things can clearly be more complicated. 

And as utee said, this is a catchall. It frankly has lots of interesting things. And I think some policy discussion is good and healthy. But mixed in there is a lot of low-grade political yogurt slinging, the kind we used to have little of. If the thread was just the slinging, I'd ignore like Area 51 down there. 

(And there's something just wired into human nature that once we start throwing the fiery stuff around, we just feed it more fire. At least when we're arguing about if Jim Tressell's tenure was good enough, it seems like it can only get so ugly. And the way it works is the temptation isn't to calm it down, but just throw more fuel in there. Not like I've not done it at times, and not like my first instinct, as is most folks' first instinct, is to fire back)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 21, 2022, 11:02:38 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 21, 2022, 10:56:09 AM

I guess I'd start by pointing out, you don't seem all that interested in Big Ten sports. Yet you are on a Big Ten message board, so things can clearly be more complicated.

And as utee said, this is a catchall. It frankly has lots of interesting things. And I think some policy discussion is good and healthy. But mixed in there is a lot of low-grade political yogurt slinging, the kind we used to have little of. If the thread was just the slinging, I'd ignore like Area 51 down there.

(And there's something just wired into human nature that once we start throwing the fiery stuff around, we just feed it more fire. At least when we're arguing about if Jim Tressell's tenure was good enough, it seems like it can only get so ugly. And the way it works is the temptation isn't to calm it down, but just throw more fuel in there. Not like I've not done it at times, and not like my first instinct, as is most folks' first instinct, is to fire back)

you love it just admit it come out of that closet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 11:07:22 AM

This area has gotten me a LOT more interested in B1G football, I feel like I'm a better fan, I'll watch Purdue play NW and have some vague notion of who is what.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 21, 2022, 11:09:42 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 11:07:22 AM

This area has gotten me a LOT more interested in B1G football, I feel like I'm a better fan, I'll watch Purdue play NW and have some vague notion of who is what.

I too follow Big football much more then I used to

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 21, 2022, 11:09:57 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 21, 2022, 11:02:38 AM

you love it just admit it come out of that closet

... nope. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 11:18:57 AM

Early humans domesticated themselves, new genetic evidence suggests | Science | AAAS (https://www.science.org/content/article/early-humans-domesticated-themselves-new-genetic-evidence-suggests?utm_campaign=SciMag&utm_source=Social&utm_medium=Facebook)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 21, 2022, 11:19:43 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 21, 2022, 10:02:13 AM

but I understand I am a small constituency and the will of the group carries forth.

the will of the group? :043: just what in the hell is that? Eating,sleeping,working,quaffing,questioning referee calls,egg lobby,electric cars and moving to Austin.What am i missing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 11:21:41 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 21, 2022, 10:56:09 AM

I guess I'd start by pointing out, you don't seem all that interested in Big Ten sports. Yet you are on a Big Ten message board, so things can clearly be more complicated.

I'll point out here, that the B1G forum on this website has the most traffic, which is why I post here.  After several board moves over the years (decades?), we've lot most of our old regular B12 and SEC posters, and we've lost all of our PAC posters.

I DO like watching B1G football, but I don't post on this particular forum any more, or less, because of it.  I actually don't post very often in the B1G sports threads, because I don't know the details intimately like you all do, I'm just an interested observer for the most part.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 21, 2022, 11:21:53 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 21, 2022, 11:19:43 AM

the will of the group? :043: just what in the hell is that? Eating,sleeping,working,quaffing,questioning referee calls,egg lobby,electric cars and moving to Austin.What am i missing

quiet or the will of the group will squash you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 21, 2022, 11:24:41 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 21, 2022, 10:56:09 AM

I guess I'd start by pointing out, you don't seem all that interested in Big Ten sports. Yet you are on a Big Ten message board, so things can clearly be more complicated.

Damn straight get off my lawn and go scream at the clouds on the back porch

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 21, 2022, 11:29:10 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 11:21:41 AM

I'll point out here, that the B1G forum on this website has the most traffic, which is why I post here.  After several board moves over the years (decades?), we've lot most of our old regular B12 and SEC posters, and we've lost all of our PAC posters.

I DO like watching B1G football, but I don't post on this particular forum any more, or less, because of it.  I actually don't post very often in the B1G sports threads, because I don't know the details intimately like you all do, I'm just an interested observer for the most part.

Yep. It's more complicated than just "I'm not interested in that."

On another note, I'd been going back and fourth on being gluttonous with a $5 breakfast burrito, but I waited too long and they stopped selling it half an hour ago. Egg lobby wins again. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 11:29:47 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 21, 2022, 11:21:53 AM

quiet or the will of the group will squash you

I will counter that with the Egg Lobby and a potato.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 21, 2022, 11:30:51 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 21, 2022, 11:21:53 AM

quiet or the will of the group will squash you

Not squash, like a vegetable, poach, like an egg. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 21, 2022, 11:31:33 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 10:17:10 AM

Drawing the line is tough so in this thread we really don't.

It must be a mandate of the masses not some moisened tarts waving their sabres around

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 11:33:56 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 21, 2022, 11:29:10 AM

Yep. It's more complicated than just "I'm not interested in that."

On another note, I'd been going back and fourth on being gluttonous with a $5 breakfast burrito, but I waited too long and they stopped selling it half an hour ago. Egg lobby wins again.

WHY do they only offer certain foods at certain times of the day?

I believe that I am unique and original in asking that question.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 11:35:35 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 21, 2022, 11:31:33 AM

It must be a mandate of the masses not some moisened tarts waving their sabres around

I wouldn't say I have SUPREME executive power, here.  Drew holds Excalibur and could strike me down on a whim. ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 21, 2022, 11:36:59 AM

and yet, he doesn't

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 21, 2022, 11:42:45 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 11:21:41 AM

I actually don't post very often in the B1G sports threads, because I don't know the details intimately like you all do

Oh yeah because that's exactly what keeps  the congregation here from popping off quite often

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 11:43:31 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 21, 2022, 11:36:59 AM

and yet, he doesn't

Not yet, anyway.  He's truly a benevolent and merciful ruler.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 21, 2022, 11:44:19 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 11:35:35 AM

I wouldn't say I have SUPREME executive power, here.  Drew holds Excalibur and could strike me down on a whim. ;)

He plans on moving to Austin,so he's shown great constraint

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 11:50:02 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 11:33:56 AM

WHY do they only offer certain foods at certain times of the day?

I believe that I am unique and original in asking that question.

If by "they" you mean restaurants in general, I suspect "they" offer what "they" think the public wants, which often reflects tradition and how "we" were raised.

I have nothing against an omelet at night.  I've eaten cold pizza for breakfast, not by choice.

When I was working, I'd eat a breakfast bar for breakfast every day and then had lunch at 11.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 11:54:17 AM

Most taco trucks around here will make breakfast tacos all day long.  

But you don't see pizza places or Chinese restaurants open at 7 AM.  It really is kind of quirky, and something I hadn't thought much about until listening to folks complain here on this message board.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 21, 2022, 11:59:36 AM

holy moly, there's plenty I hadn't thought about much until I started hanging out here

not sure it's all worth giving that much thought

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 21, 2022, 12:03:19 PM

It's called broadening your horizon's,and if it's anything we understand here it's Broads and their Horizons

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 21, 2022, 01:06:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 11:50:02 AM

If by "they" you mean restaurants in general, I suspect "they" offer what "they" think the public wants, which often reflects tradition and how "we" were raised.

I have nothing against an omelet at night.  I've eaten cold pizza for breakfast, not by choice.

When I was working, I'd eat a breakfast bar for breakfast every day and then had lunch at 11.

Nor do I, so long as it has sprouts, water chestnuts, carrots, onions, garlic and some kind of protein in it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 01:38:23 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 10:19:26 PM

Canadian government to suspend Parliament- POLITICO (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/13/canadian-government-to-suspend-parliament-128196)

From 2020

they suspended parliament when COVID- a brand new virus no one knew anything about first hit and no one really knew what it was- you know- an actual national emergency/crisis.

dude suspended parliament and instituted martial law, has violated every kind of basic right and put an entire country on military lockdown and is arresting peaceful protestors at gunpoint, freezing their bank accounts, and canceling their vehicle insurance simply to squash a peaceful protest. he should be in f**king prison.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 01:44:59 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 19, 2022, 12:04:15 PM

also...

(https://geektechnica.com/wp-content/uploads/1ekw86.jpg)

Lmao. For real. 

Tibet, Hong Kong, and Taiwan, anyone? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 01:59:40 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 10:05:52 PM

We're friends with our local French restaurant owner.  They got bailed out, they said they would not have survived otherwise.  They are still on the edge though.

They don't really do take out, and places like that suffered a lot.  Take out around here has really expanded a lot.  We had lunch at Mukja today and take out is 40% of their business.

It's probably all some massive conspiracy though.  Maybe not.

Your friend is fortunate that he received a bail out. A lot of independent restaurants and small businesses did not. Yelp data was reporting that 60% of the restaurants that closed down temporarily during the pandemic are now closed forever. The fact that he was able to stay open- probably really saved his behind.

The PPP program was a pretty ineffective program at directing the money to what it was supposedly named after- (Paycheck Protection Program). About 75% of PPP funds went to the top 20% of income earners. Only roughly 25% went to workers who would have otherwise lost their jobs. Roughly 75% of PPP funds went directly to business owners, shareholders, creditors, and suppliers. 

A lot of money went to people who probably had no business receiving any loans. Just take Donald Trump's personal lawyer- Marc Kasowitz - his firm got a $10 million PPP loan. There were a lot of big businesses that got loans- got caught receiving those loans and then gave the money back. 1% of the borrowers got over 25% of the loans. The whole thing was a complete mess- but anything run by the government usually is. They don't do anything well. SBA had been trying to keep loan data private, it wasn't until FOIA lawsuits when a judge forced SBA to make everything public.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 02:03:04 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 19, 2022, 08:22:54 PM

PARIS (AP) — A modeling agent who was close to disgraced U.S. financier Jeffrey Epstein was found dead Saturday in his French jail cell, where he was being held in an investigation into the rape and sex trafficking of minors, according to the Paris prosecutor’s office.

Paris police are investigating Jean-Luc Brunel’s death at the historic La Sante prison in Paris, the prosecutor’s office said.

Victims of his alleged abuse described shock and dismay that the 75-year-old, a well-known model scout in the 1980s and 1990s who ran different agencies in Paris and New York, will never face trial. They called his death as a double blow after Epstein killed himself in 2019 in a Manhattan jail while awaiting sex-trafficking charges.

Brunel’s lawyers suggested Saturday that he, too, killed himself. In a statement, they described his “distress” at his incarceration and his repeated requests for a provisional release from the prison.


https://apnews.com/article/europe-arts-and-entertainment-paris-jeffrey-epstein-edfbdb84c6cdd5f736ac7e1c2bac657b (https://apnews.com/article/europe-arts-and-entertainment-paris-jeffrey-epstein-edfbdb84c6cdd5f736ac7e1c2bac657b)

Jeffrey Epstein definitely killed himself. Lol. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 02:05:10 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 20, 2022, 08:17:36 AM

This is complete BS.

Video purports to show man being removed from plane over 'Let's Go Brandon' mask | Fox Business (https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/video-purports-show-man-being-removed-plane-lets-go-brandon-mask)

there has to be more to this story- otherwise this guy will have a huge lawsuit on his hands and win a ton of money in court.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 02:06:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 08:20:49 AM

John Bolton: Putin has 'incentive' to drag out Ukraine crisis | TheHill (https://thehill.com/policy/international/595053-john-bolton-putin-has-incentive-to-drag-out-ukraine-crisis)

I'm not an admirer of his at all, but I think he's aligned with my thoughts here.

I threw up in my mouth when I saw the name John Bolton.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 02:15:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 02:25:18 PM

Op-ed: Europe’s future rests on whether the West can counter Putin’s threats to Ukraine (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/20/op-ed-europes-future-rests-on-whether-the-west-can-counter-putins-threats-to-ukraine.html)

hyperbole, much lol? this whole sh*tshow with Ukraine wouldn't be happening if the West hadn't been trying to pull Ukraine into it's orbit and away from Russia's for well over a decade and a half now.

Western Europe is going to need to be on good terms with Russia so long as they buy up all their natural gas.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 02:31:51 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 02:05:10 PM

there has to be more to this story- otherwise this guy will have a huge lawsuit on his hands and win a ton of money in court.

I don't think he would have any shot at that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 02:34:08 PM

twitter, google, and facebook all receive immunity from any legal liability from whatever a 3rd party user posts on their platform via section 230 of the United States Communications Decency Act - which means they have no real justification for their little censorship sprees.

I sometimes wonder if these companies should be reclassified as public utilities like telephone service or electricity. They have become a part of the public square and everyday life for millions of Americans. I think this would make it more difficult for them to arbitrarily censor- with no rhyme or reason- which is what they are doing right now. Telephone company can't ban you from using the telephone just because they don't like what you're saying. Should apply to these platforms as well, I think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 02:36:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 02:31:51 PM

I don't think he would have any shot at that.

if they really removed him just for wearing a mask that said Let's Go Brandon, he should sue and I'd think a jury would side with him over the airline. Unless the jury was entirely made up of Joe Biden lovers. But with approval ratings of 28% - who the hell loves the guy?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 02:40:18 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 01:38:23 PM

dude suspended parliament and instituted martial law, has violated every kind of basic right and put an entire country on military lockdown and is arresting peaceful protestors at gunpoint, freezing their bank accounts, and canceling their vehicle insurance simply to squash a peaceful protest. he should be in f**king prison.

Hyperbole much?

Oh, yeah.

Canada trucker protest: What powers will Emergencies Act give Trudeau? - BBC News

 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60381096)
martial law, temporary rule by military authorities of a designated area in time of emergency when the civil authorities are deemed unable to function. The legal effects of a declaration of martial law (https://www.britannica.com/topic/law) differ in various jurisdictions, but they generally involve a suspension of normal civil rights (https://www.britannica.com/topic/civil-rights) and the extension to the civilian population of summary military justice (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/justice) or of military law (https://www.britannica.com/topic/military-law). Although temporary in theory, a state of martial law may in fact continue indefinitely.

Fact-check: Did Canada impose martial law because of vaccine protests? (statesman.com) (https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022/02/19/fact-check-did-canada-impose-martial-law-because-vaccine-protests/6848500001/)

No, they didn't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 02:41:49 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 02:36:03 PM

if they really removed him just for wearing a mask that said Let's Go Brandon, he should sue and I'd think a jury would side with him over the airline. Unless the jury was entirely made up of Joe Biden lovers. But with approval ratings of 28% - who the hell loves the guy?

He can't sue, the flight crew is accorded almost unlimited authority on a plane.  Failure to follow their instructions will get you thrown off, no matter what.

The Captain of AF One can order the President around.  He's the closest thing to a god we have in the US.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 02:54:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 02:41:49 PM

He can't sue, the flight crew is accorded almost unlimited authority on a plane.  Failure to follow their instructions will get you thrown off, no matter what.

yeah, that is simply not true. might want to google that buddy. there have been many cases of passengers suing the airlines for getting thrown off the plane - and most of the times the airlines just settle. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 02:55:51 PM

More than 70 passengers removed from CVG planes in 2021 (wcpo.com) (https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/i-team/cvg-airport-police-removed-more-than-70-passengers-from-planes-for-alleged-bad-conduct-in-2021)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 02:57:16 PM

Failure to follow air crew instructions will get you thrown off.  Airlines may settle rather than engage in some protracted legal battle.

I should have said he has no grounds for a law suit, anyone can try and sue.

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 02:54:57 PM

yeah, that is simply not true. might want to google that buddy. there have been many cases of passengers suing the airlines for getting thrown off the plane - and most of the times the airlines just settle.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 03:02:00 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 02:40:18 PM

Hyperbole much?

Oh, yeah.

Canada trucker protest: What powers will Emergencies Act give Trudeau? - BBC News
 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60381096)
martial law, temporary rule by military authorities of a designated area in time of emergency when the civil authorities are deemed unable to function. The legal effects of a declaration of martial law (https://www.britannica.com/topic/law) differ in various jurisdictions, but they generally involve a suspension of normal civil rights (https://www.britannica.com/topic/civil-rights) and the extension to the civilian population of summary military justice (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/justice) or of military law (https://www.britannica.com/topic/military-law). Although temporary in theory, a state of martial law may in fact continue indefinitely.

Fact-check: Did Canada impose martial law because of vaccine protests? (statesman.com) (https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022/02/19/fact-check-did-canada-impose-martial-law-because-vaccine-protests/6848500001/)

No, they didn't.

Canada is essentially in a state of martial law. They are LITERALLY in a state of nation wide emergency. It is the FIRST TIME this emergency law has ever been enacted in the history of the country. To squash a peaceful protest. INSANE.

Citizens rights are being completely suspended. There is no due process. Trudeau is effectively a dictator when he can arrest people at gun point for peacefully protesting, classify protestors he does not like as terrorists, freeze bank accounts & cancel vehicle insurance without citizens having any legal recourse, seize property by force, and ban journalists from covering the protests with threat of arrest if they are in the protest areas. 

Wake the f**k up man for christ sake. 

https://twitter.com/Dustinpenner25/status/1495473199018033158?s=20&t=dSYOpMrFAAIV4X8sa835Sg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 03:06:18 PM

US now claiming they have intel that Russian commanders have orders to proceed with an invasion of Ukraine, and are also claiming that Putin has a list filled with Ukrainians to be killed and others to be sent to internment camps following a military occupation. 

Claims by this administration get wilder by the minute. Any day now, any day now....for three f**king months. LOL.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 03:09:21 PM

I suppose some folks like to be dramatic and exaggerate everything for impact, or something.  I prefer to be as precise as possible, and leave the hysteria to others.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 03:21:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 03:09:21 PM

I suppose some folks like to be dramatic and exaggerate everything for impact, or something.  I prefer to be as precise as possible, and leave the hysteria to others.

where is the hysteria in any of this? you really aren't paying attention, are you? there is no exaggeration, all that stuff is happening. right now. btw do you know what the mayor of Ottawa is attempting to do? He says he's going to use The Emergency Powers Act to try and sell all the confiscated trucks and equipment.

these people have been arrested, had their bank accounts frozen, vehicle insurance canceled, trucks and equipment confiscated and sold - their lives essentially destroyed- all for the crime of peacefully protesting. completely insane.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 03:24:55 PM

https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/1495526740617277447?s=20&t=5dnyn6wE_tBq6jrtbT07zw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 03:26:19 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 01:38:23 PM

they suspended parliament when COVID- a brand new virus no one knew anything about first hit and no one really knew what it was- you know- an actual national emergency/crisis.

dude suspended parliament and instituted martial law, has violated every kind of basic right and put an entire country on military lockdown and is arresting peaceful protestors at gunpoint, freezing their bank accounts, and canceling their vehicle insurance simply to squash a peaceful protest. he should be in f**king prison.

Just about everything in this post is hyperbole or completely false.

He violated every kind of basic right?  OK then.  He lined'em up and shot them.  It's of course not martial law.  Civilian courts are still operating.  Military lockdown?  Entire country?  A country has a right to manage "protests" which are obstructing traffic and commerce.

You tell folks to leave, and when they don't, they get arrested.  You have no right to block a major artery in the US or Canada.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 03:26:23 PM

https://twitter.com/olsongetty/status/1495431223161724932?s=20&t=01NkOgfaOLTyl_z_mSXeTQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 03:27:17 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 03:26:19 PM

Just about everything in this post is hyperbole or completely false.

He violated every kind of basic right?  OK then.  He lined'em up and shot them.  It's of course not martial law.  Civilian courts are still operating.  Military lockdown?  Entire country?  A country has a right to manage "protests" which are obstructing traffic and commerce.

You tell folks to leave, and when they don't, they get arrested.  You have no right to block a major artery in the US or Canada.

yeah, no. you really do not know what you're speaking about. At all. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTtO_dSnHQ4

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 03:34:57 PM

This reminds me of the pregame "analysis" of UM-UGA where maybe UGA had a slight advantage at TE and LB, but everywhere else Michigan was clearly superior.  Watching films of the Michigan DEs was giddy thinking about how often they sack that poor little walk on Dawg QB who was nowhere near as good as even the Michigan QB, who probably wasn't as good as their freshman QB.  The Michigan running game was way better than UGA's.

And the Michigan Offensive Line, my goodness, they were best in the country.  UGA hadn't really played anyone but Alabama who torched them.

It all sounded pretty good until the game started.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 21, 2022, 03:48:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 05:58:07 PM

It would be unusual for one of "us" to get a different figure at some tax prep place if the inputs are the same.  It isn't magic, and they use software much like TT et al.

The main thing I like is how TT downloads my info from Schwab automagically.

as a tax/accounting professional, the benefits to having an accountant isn't necessarily them knowing which forms to fill out. as has been said, the tax programs aren't dissimilar from tt and other do it yourself software. if all you have is a w-2, some int/dividends and/or stock sales, mortgage interest and other itemized deductions (likely not going to matter for most anyway, for fed), student loans maybe, then you'll probably be fine in the do it yourself category. and this is generally what i recommend to friends and clients when they ask.

where it's really beneficial is when you have business(es) and/or other unusual tax situations and can do some tax planning. and this is usually done before year end. if you wait until after year is over, there's little that can be done, it just is what it is.

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 19, 2022, 08:14:28 PM

Then they shouldn't be charging people anything.

most of the time, people doing the data entry for the big box tax prep places have no more experience and expertise than you. they aren't cpas, aren't accountants, and usually aren't even registered agents with irs. it's a seasonal $8-10/hr job for them. and then an accountant/cpa/registered agent comes in behind them and reviews the forms for errors. i'm sure most do a decent job reviewing them, but i've seen more than a few that were... less than satisfactory. a lot of times, they also have so many to review it's nearly impossible for them to give good oversight to all of them.

as for not charging people for it, well, as i said above, when asked about it from friends/clients, i'm honest with them on how they might save some money by doing it themselves. and they'll likely be ok. but i have no issues doing a simple return if that's what they choose. and my time is valuable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 21, 2022, 03:51:47 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 21, 2022, 01:06:59 PM

Nor do I, so long as it has sprouts, water chestnuts, carrots, onions, garlic and some kind of protein in it.

Hippie 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 21, 2022, 03:54:50 PM

I just like Egg Foo Young.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 03:55:19 PM

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1495856869038043142?s=20&t=HA0ASI9W4DEgEpv4NrA2MA


https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1495849843129999366?s=20&t=HA0ASI9W4DEgEpv4NrA2MA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 03:56:37 PM

Western European leaders pissed at Biden administration for all the war talk and not sharing any of the "intelligence" with their countries. Why not share the intelligence with your closest allies? Most likely because there is no intelligence.

https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1495441472191139846?s=20&t=HA0ASI9W4DEgEpv4NrA2MA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 04:04:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 03:34:57 PM

This reminds me of the pregame "analysis" of UM-UGA where maybe UGA had a slight advantage at TE and LB, but everywhere else Michigan was clearly superior.  Watching films of the Michigan DEs was giddy thinking about how often they sack that poor little walk on Dawg QB who was nowhere near as good as even the Michigan QB, who probably wasn't as good as their freshman QB.  The Michigan running game was way better than UGA's.

And the Michigan Offensive Line, my goodness, they were best in the country.  UGA hadn't really played anyone but Alabama who torched them.

It all sounded pretty good until the game started.

yeah cause that is totally relevant to this discussion. 

Trudeau has gone full dictator. What is going on in Canada is literally insane and unprecedented. Oh and that little bridge you were crying about being blocked- I would be sympathetic if it wasn't owned by a dickhead billionaire (well family of billionaire as he died like a year ago - and trust me- he was a massive dickhead- I've had the pleasure of meeting him before- he went to high school with my grandfather) who spent decades and $50 million of his own money trying to block a new publicly owned US-Canada bridge that is to be owned 50-50 by both governments. He blocked it for awhile but they are finally building a new publicly owned bridge.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i9wL2mWTos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYnv1bogt8g

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 04:09:07 PM

Ukrainian President slamming the US, saying you guys are telling me that Russia is 100% invading us. Then put sanctions on them. Why wait until after we're invaded to put sanctions on them if you're 100% certain they are invading. Basically: put up or shut up. 

He's already ripped the Biden administration for all the hype and hysteria and asked them to calm the f down with the invasion/war talk. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 21, 2022, 04:09:23 PM

I'm a guy who wore an N95 mask into a gas station yesterday when nobody else was masked.  But Trudeau's overreach is concerning (to say the least), and has helped drive a wedge into this being a political thing, when the best thing would simply be for everyone to get whatever vax is currently recommended and then life the remaining mandates, while allowing those who feel more comfortable doing so to do so.

Is this now a pandemic of the unvaccinated?  Yes.  But continually making the unvaccinated the "other" helps nobody.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 04:12:20 PM

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMJgne4X0Acv07h?format=jpg&name=large)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 04:15:07 PM

The Canadian courts are still in full regular operation.  Trudeau is subject to their decisions, and also the decisions of his party in Parliament, and eventually the voters.

Dictators don't have those sorts of restraints.  They get to dictate.  Was there some part of said video above where the police pointed a gun at an arrestee?

I quickly scanned it, I saw the horse incident.  Police everywhere use horses for crowd control at times, and at times things happen.  Horses are large and powerful animals.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 04:18:45 PM

Quote from: ELA on February 21, 2022, 04:09:23 PM

I'm a guy who wore an N95 mask into a gas station yesterday when nobody else was masked.  But Trudeau's overreach is concerning (to say the least), and has helped drive a wedge into this being a political thing, when the best thing would simply be for everyone to get whatever vax is currently recommended and then life the remaining mandates, while allowing those who feel more comfortable doing so to do so.

Is this now a pandemic of the unvaccinated?  Yes.  But continually making the unvaccinated the "other" helps nobody.

I believe what they wanted was for the government to lift the vaccine mandates and the vaccine passports. Passports were always a terrible idea- we don't really have those in the US and I believe if the federal government tried a nationwide passport there would be outright war in the streets- not peaceful protests by truckers like in Canada- which is probably why they never happened here.

As far the vaccine mandates- the science is in. The vaccines will not stop transmission, so to me there is really no point in having a vaccine mandate. In most if not all cases it will provide protection from serious illness/hospitalization/death but it won't prevent transmission or reinfection. Doesn't matter how many vaccines or boosters you get- you will get covid. All of us. If the mandates were about stopping the spread- well they don't stop the spread so I don't see much use for mandates. Get the protection if you want it, don't get it if you don't want it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 04:21:14 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 04:15:07 PM

The Canadian courts are still in full regular operation.  Trudeau is subject to their decisions, and also the decisions of his party in Parliament, and eventually the voters.

Dictators don't have those sorts of restraints.  They get to dictate.  Was there some part of said video above where the police pointed a gun at an arrestee?

I quickly scanned it, I saw the horse incident.  Police everywhere use horses for crowd control at times, and at times things happen.  Horses are large and powerful animals.

where is the massive eye roll emoji when you need it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z0XRF4uhBw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 21, 2022, 04:22:54 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 04:18:45 PM

I believe what they wanted was for the government to lift the vaccine mandates and the vaccine passports. Passports were always a terrible idea- we don't really have those in the US and I believe if the federal government tried a nationwide passport there would be outright war in the streets- not peaceful protests by truckers like in Canada- which is probably why they never happened here.

As far the vaccine mandates- the science is in. The vaccines will not stop transmission, so to me there is really no point in having a vaccine mandate. In most if not all cases it will provide protection from serious illness/hospitalization/death but it won't prevent transmission or reinfection. Doesn't matter how many vaccines or boosters you get- you will get covid. All of us. If the mandates were about stopping the spread- well they don't stop the spread so I don't see much use for mandates. Get the protection if you want it, don't get it if you don't want it.

This is where I'm at. I have a few "friends" who won't associate with unvaxed people. Which is why I will not divulge my status to them. I've got way too many better friends anyway, so I don't need to see them anymore. Winning is good.

Anyway, I no longer care if people get vaccinated or not. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 04:26:29 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 21, 2022, 04:22:54 PM

This is where I'm at. I have a few "friends" who won't associate with unvaxed people. Which is why I will not divulge my status to them. I've got way too many better friends anyway, so I don't need to see them anymore. Winning is good.

Anyway, I no longer care if people get vaccinated or not.

Yeah I know some people who won't associate with the unvaxed either, and it's for purely vindictive spiteful reasons, although they try to veil it as concerns over public health.

I, too, have no real use for people like that.  They just want to feel elite.  I've got your elite right here, pal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 04:27:02 PM

The vaccines will reduce transmission.  Nothing will stop it.  Nobody ever claimed it would.

An imperfect qualified measure can still be of value.  

I hope the heart problems seen in folks who caught Delta are not as prevalent with Omicron.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 04:29:17 PM

So, Putin is playing it cagey, as expected.  He recognizes those breakaway regions and the apply to be part of Russia.

Crimea all over again, and no overt use of military force unless Ukraine starts it.  I think Putin is taking a long view here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 04:30:40 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 04:27:02 PM

The vaccines will reduce transmission.  Nothing will stop it.  Nobody ever claimed it would.

An imperfect qualified measure can still be of value. 

I hope the heart problems seen in folks who caught Delta are not as prevalent with Omicron.

There are significant potential heart problems associated with infection from nearly all viruses, this is nothing unique to COVID.

I agree that it would be nice if it were minimal in Omicron compared to Delta or any other previous strain.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 04:32:34 PM

The heart problem study I cited looked scary to me, it was quite bad, but during Delta.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 21, 2022, 04:35:21 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 01:59:40 PM

. Yelp data was reporting that 60% of the restaurants that closed down temporarily during the pandemic are now closed forever. 

You keep saying this. Can you provide a cite? 

I ask because I live in California, arguably one of the strictest states when it comes to COVID restrictions. And anecdotally, restaurants seem to be doing fine here. I can count a few closures here and there, but 60%--even 60% of independents--doesn't jive with what I see on the ground.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 21, 2022, 04:39:14 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 21, 2022, 04:35:21 PM

You keep saying this. Can you provide a cite?

I ask because I live in California, arguably one of the strictest states when it comes to COVID restrictions. And anecdotally, restaurants seem to be doing fine here. I can count a few closures here and there, but 60%--even 60% of independents--doesn't jive with what I see on the ground.

Here in Houston I dont think there was anywhere near that number that remained closed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 04:42:48 PM

Hereabouts, nearly all restaurants closed down initially, and completely.  Most reopened after a couple weeks takeout only.  And the vast majority survived, I'd guesstimate 94%, meaning 6% went under.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 04:47:57 PM

Several of my favorite iconic longtime restaurants in Austin closed, and it sucked.  But I'd estimate at least 90% reopened and survived.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 04:51:21 PM

The ones that can't do take out were especially hard hit, but I can think of two here that didn't reopen, our of 100+.

Make that three, a Mexicanish place closed up too.  But Chipotle you know, they are like the egg lobby.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 04:57:22 PM

https://twitter.com/Andrew__Roth/status/1495874042640969737?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1495874042640969737%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FAndrew__Roth%2Fstatus%2F1495874042640969737

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 21, 2022, 05:07:33 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 04:57:22 PM

https://twitter.com/Andrew__Roth/status/1495874042640969737?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1495874042640969737%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FAndrew__Roth%2Fstatus%2F1495874042640969737

welp, russian has invaded ukraine... again, i guess. or officially? i don't know. so much for just posturing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 21, 2022, 05:09:57 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 21, 2022, 04:22:54 PM

This is where I'm at. I have a few "friends" who won't associate with unvaxed people. Which is why I will not divulge my status to them. I've got way too many better friends anyway, so I don't need to see them anymore. Winning is good.

Anyway, I no longer care if people get vaccinated or not.

Got vaxed in January because most business/jobs are asking for it not because I feel I'm so much safer. Cindy hasn't but still follows protocals.Still wipes down inside the car,handles,wears masks - keeps distance,washes hands.Slobs sure I keep my distance but this whole bullshit has hurt this country considerably.Im not sure if the vaxed have gotten lax or just don't GAF anymore but there are definately more hypocrites amongst them because they think they know. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 21, 2022, 05:11:13 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 04:26:29 PM

 They just want to feel elite.  I've got your elite right here, pal.

There's no need to drag Michigan into this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 21, 2022, 05:16:41 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 21, 2022, 04:35:21 PM

You keep saying this. Can you provide a cite?

I ask because I live in California, arguably one of the strictest states when it comes to COVID restrictions. And anecdotally, restaurants seem to be doing fine here. I can count a few closures here and there, but 60%--even 60% of independents--doesn't jive with what I see on the ground.

Found it. (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/16/yelp-data-shows-60percent-of-business-closures-due-to-the-coronavirus-pandemic-are-now-permanent.html) The data says that 60% of businesses that "closed" for the pandemic didn't reopen. But it appears closed is a more narrow term, and we're talking about businesses overall. And the data was from Summer of 2020. 

Digging into the data, it looks like Sandwich shops, Burger places and breakfast/brunch places saw overall closure rates of 5.5 to 5.7 percent between March 1 2020 and end of Summer 2020. Everything else listed was under 4. It's also a little annoying because they don't have any year over year data, so we don't know any baseline rate of those closures. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 21, 2022, 05:17:34 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 21, 2022, 04:35:21 PM

doesn't jive with what I see on the ground.

It's JIBE - get your urban slang correct.Ask me about proper sentence structure,puncuation or editing I'm dead in the water

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 05:18:38 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 21, 2022, 05:07:33 PM

welp, russian has invaded ukraine... again, i guess. or officially? i don't know. so much for just posturing.

Yup.  Now we'll just have to see how Ukraine reacts.  I'm gonna go ahead and predict, it won't go over smoothly.

And then there's this...


https://twitter.com/SecBlinken/status/1495876888148992003?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1495876888148992003%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FSecBlinken%2Fstatus%2F1495876888148992003%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc255Etfw257Ctwcamp255Etweetembed257Ctwterm255E1495876888148992003257Ctwgr255E257Ctwcon255Es1_26ref_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Flive%2Fworld-europe-60454795

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 21, 2022, 05:20:03 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 04:47:57 PM

Several of my favorite iconic longtime restaurants in Austin closed, and it sucked.  But I'd estimate at least 90% reopened and survived.

My sink is still open

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 21, 2022, 05:25:41 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 05:18:38 PM

Yup.  Now we'll just have to see how Ukraine reacts.  I'm gonna go ahead and predict, it won't go over smoothly.

And then there's this...


https://twitter.com/SecBlinken/status/1495876888148992003?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1495876888148992003%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FSecBlinken%2Fstatus%2F1495876888148992003%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc255Etfw257Ctwcamp255Etweetembed257Ctwterm255E1495876888148992003257Ctwgr255E257Ctwcon255Es1_26ref_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Flive%2Fworld-europe-60454795

same blueprint used to take georgia. fund and support a rebellion in region, when they get a stronghold, "recognize" them as independent state, send "peacekeeping" troops in, and when troops from occupied country respond with force, use it as excuse to invade further and annex as much as possible.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 05:37:45 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 21, 2022, 05:25:41 PM

same blueprint used to take georgia. fund and support a rebellion in region, when they get a stronghold, "recognize" them as independent state, send "peacekeeping" troops in, and when troops from occupied country respond with force, use it as excuse to invade further and annex as much as possible.

Yup the fabricated casus belli was 100% predictable, since it's already been done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 05:39:20 PM

https://twitter.com/olgatokariuk/status/1495859058523451392?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1495859058523451392%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Folgatokariuk%2Fstatus%2F1495859058523451392

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 05:45:38 PM

I guess the Ukrainian moms didn't get the news from their president that everything's fine.  Seems like actual Ukrainians are pretty worried.  And they should be, Russia has now declared war on them and is in the middle of an invasion.

Remember last week when Putin lied and said they were withdrawing, and yet the only movements made by Russian troops were into even more aggressive attack postures?  Yeah...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 06:04:09 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 21, 2022, 04:35:21 PM

You keep saying this. Can you provide a cite?

I ask because I live in California, arguably one of the strictest states when it comes to COVID restrictions. And anecdotally, restaurants seem to be doing fine here. I can count a few closures here and there, but 60%--even 60% of independents--doesn't jive with what I see on the ground.

yeah, so apparently I am wrong. your post made me look into this further. 

Yelp (https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/yelp-business-closures-permanent-covid-report-2020-9-1029598577) was saying that 60% of restaurants that closed during covid - were gone forever. Turns out that was Yelp projecting that and not actual data. 

I stand corrected, as The Real Deal (a great website btw) reported last year the actual number was 14% per the National Restaurant Association. https://therealdeal.com/2021/05/19/only-14-of-restaurants-closed-permanently-because-of-pandemic/

Another reason not to use Yelp. Lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 06:05:36 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 04:27:02 PM

The vaccines will reduce transmission.  Nothing will stop it.  Nobody ever claimed it would.

this is patently false. plenty were claiming this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 21, 2022, 06:08:20 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 06:05:36 PM

this is patently false. plenty were claiming this.

Including our vegetable in Chief.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 06:13:55 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 21, 2022, 05:07:33 PM

welp, russian has invaded ukraine... again, i guess. or officially? i don't know. so much for just posturing.

yeah it's a weird thing...because Ukraine claims those regions as part of their territory but they've been self-ruled and have not been controlled by or a part of Ukraine since they broke away.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 06:28:59 PM

Nobody with any expertise or authority on the matter would claim vaccines were 100% effective.  They simply weren't.  Maybe some idiots claimed it, so I suppose that counts.

Ukraine is going to need to lay down and accept this as they did Crimea.  They can't attack these areas militarily.  That would bring on the whole weight.  Putin is playing the long game.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 21, 2022, 06:39:09 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 06:28:59 PM

Nobody with any expertise or authority on the matter would claim vaccines were 100% effective.  They simply weren't.  Maybe some idiots claimed it, so I suppose that counts.

Ukraine is going to need to lay down and accept this as they did Crimea.  They can't attack these areas militarily.  That would bring on the whole weight.  Putin is playing the long game.

now Biden gets what hes wanted all along sanctions 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 06:42:18 PM

Oil prices are going up and market futures going down hard.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 21, 2022, 06:43:37 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 04:18:45 PM

I believe what they wanted was for the government to lift the vaccine mandates and the vaccine passports. Passports were always a terrible idea- we don't really have those in the US and I believe if the federal government tried a nationwide passport there would be outright war in the streets- not peaceful protests by truckers like in Canada- which is probably why they never happened here.

As far the vaccine mandates- the science is in. The vaccines will not stop transmission, so to me there is really no point in having a vaccine mandate. In most if not all cases it will provide protection from serious illness/hospitalization/death but it won't prevent transmission or reinfection. Doesn't matter how many vaccines or boosters you get- you will get covid. All of us. If the mandates were about stopping the spread- well they don't stop the spread so I don't see much use for mandates. Get the protection if you want it, don't get it if you don't want it.

Vaccine passports were never happening here.  If individual businesses want to use them, that's their right.  Beyond that, no politician trying to appeal to broad voter base even suggested them as far as I know

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 06:45:44 PM

Quote from: ELA on February 21, 2022, 06:43:37 PM

Vaccine passports were never happening here.  If individual businesses want to use them, that's their right.  Beyond that, no politician trying to appeal to broad voter base even suggested them as far as I know

From early 2021 I can recall some of the NY state-level politicians discussing the idea of a vaccine passport.  It was obviously never implemented. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 06:46:38 PM

so to recap, the Trudeau government is moving to make draconian financial surveillance permanent. The blockades are all over and protests have been squashed - and he's looking to extend the Emergencies Act for 30 days. An act which states;

the emergency must be a "national emergency" which means an "urgent and critical situation of a temporary nature" that either "(a) seriously endangers the lives, health or safety of Canadians and is of such proportions or nature as to exceed the capacity or authority of a province to deal with it, or (b) seriously threatens the ability of the Government of Canada to preserve the sovereignty, security and territorial integrity of Canada and that cannot be effectively dealt with under any other law of Canada".

Squashing a peaceful protest doesn't exactly pass the smell test- clearly does not meet that criteria..

Which is probably why the CCLA - their version of the ACLU - is taking the Trudeau government to court.

https://twitter.com/cancivlib/status/1494526181927968773?s=20&t=v6GyfRDl8M6Dc1-xPYO4Qg

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/trudeau-government-moves-to-make-expanded-surveillance-powers-over-financial-transactions-permanent/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/canadas-emergency-powers-for-freedom-convoy-set-to-be-extended-11645480357

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 06:50:30 PM

If Trudeau is literally a dictator, he could of course ignore all of this and do as he wishes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 06:54:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 06:50:30 PM

If Trudeau is literally a dictator, he could of course ignore all of this and do as he wishes.

he is doing what he wishes, and he's certainly doing his best to play dictator. not surprising after all, this is the same douchebag who says the government he most admires in the world is the CCP. 


https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1495904994716958720?s=20&t=2Oo4vtJLUy9-a7qHt7C0cQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 21, 2022, 06:54:18 PM

Masks don't generally bother me.  I don't mind not getting the flu.  So I may keep wearing one when I go to the grocery store.  But I'm not judging those who don't either.  The only time I've found it overly restrictive is coaching baseball.  It's hot, and with young kids, they respond to your facial expressions as much as what you actually say.  There were so many times I tried to praise a kid, and I could tell from his face that he thought I was yelling at him.

Like I said, I still wear a mask into grocery stores, but I was the first coach to drop a mask last summer.  When one of the assistants asked me if we didn't have to anymore, I noted the commissioner was unmasked coaching his team on an adjacent field, and I was willing to stand up to any parent who challenged it.

I can just feel the tension between the masked and unmasked in the grocery stores, and I want that to end.  Can't both be ok with their choices?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 07:03:05 PM

Grocery stores and big box stores were proven not to be a significant threat vector by the middle of 2020, so I haven't worn a mask in the store since then, aside from ones that post signs requiring it.  

I don't care at all what others choose to do in the store, mask or no-mask, makes no difference to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 21, 2022, 07:15:56 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 06:04:09 PM

yeah, so apparently I am wrong. your post made me look into this further.

Yelp (https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/yelp-business-closures-permanent-covid-report-2020-9-1029598577) was saying that 60% of restaurants that closed during covid - were gone forever. Turns out that was Yelp projecting that and not actual data.

I stand corrected, as The Real Deal (a great website btw) reported last year the actual number was 14% per the National Restaurant Association. https://therealdeal.com/2021/05/19/only-14-of-restaurants-closed-permanently-because-of-pandemic/

Another reason not to use Yelp. Lol.

Thanks.

I'm not going to quibble with the 14% number. Seems a little high but within the realm of plausible. 60%, however,  has been setting off my BS detector for weeks but I hadn't gotten around to asking.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 21, 2022, 07:19:57 PM

Quote from: ELA on February 21, 2022, 06:54:18 PM

Masks don't generally bother me.  I don't mind not getting the flu.  So I may keep wearing one when I go to the grocery store.  But I'm not judging those who don't either.  The only time I've found it overly restrictive is coaching baseball.  It's hot, and with young kids, they respond to your facial expressions as much as what you actually say.  There were so many times I tried to praise a kid, and I could tell from his face that he thought I was yelling at him.

Like I said, I still wear a mask into grocery stores, but I was the first coach to drop a mask last summer.  When one of the assistants asked me if we didn't have to anymore, I noted the commissioner was unmasked coaching his team on an adjacent field, and I was willing to stand up to any parent who challenged it.

I can just feel the tension between the masked and unmasked in the grocery stores, and I want that to end.  Can't both be ok with their choices?

Sure. Move to Florida. Lots of folks still mask here, and nobody judges. It's a free state.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 07:23:47 PM

Definitely move to Florida.  Everyone should do that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 07:25:33 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 07:23:47 PM

Definitely move to Florida.  Everyone should do that.

I think everyone should move to Texas. Austin specifically. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 21, 2022, 07:38:23 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 07:23:47 PM

Definitely move to Florida.  Everyone should do that.

Our Floridian friends keep telling us they need more neighbors. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 08:05:50 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 21, 2022, 07:25:33 PM

I think everyone should move to Texas. Austin specifically. :)

(https://i.imgur.com/7LUPCOq.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 21, 2022, 08:38:24 PM

Quote from: ELA on February 21, 2022, 06:54:18 PM

I can just feel the tension between the masked and unmasked in the grocery stores, and I want that to end.  Can't both be ok with their choices?

Not when one's actions affects (or is believed to affect) the other.


If anyone figures out a way for people to stop judging each other, that'd be the first time.


I wear a mask at work because I have to, and that's fine.  But I haven't worn one out and about in a long time - because when I go to the grocery store or Walmart or wherever, I'm in a high-volume airspace and constantly moving around.  If I rode a bus every day, drove an Uber, or was a stripper, sure, I'd probably wear a mask a lot more.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 06:44:18 AM

News from Ukraine is not good, but pretty much as expected.  Slice and dice.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 07:12:05 AM

Pronghorn - Antilocapra americana - NatureWorks (nhpbs.org) (https://nhpbs.org/natureworks/pronghorn.htm)

Really interesting mammal, to me, can run 30 mph long distances.

The pronghorn is the fastest land mammal in the Western Hemisphere (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere), being built for maximum predator (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predator) evasion through running. The top speed is dependent upon the length of time over which it is measured. It can run 35 mph for 4 mi (56 km/h for 6 km), 42 mph for 1 mi (67 km/h for 1.6 km), and 55 mph for 0.5 mi (88.5 km/h for 0.8 km).^{[21] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronghorn#cite_note-texas-22)[26] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronghorn#cite_note-27)} While it is often cited as the second-fastest land animal, second only to the African cheetah (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheetah),^{[27] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronghorn#cite_note-natgeojan07-28)} it can sustain high speeds longer than cheetahs.^{[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronghorn#cite_note-hawes-8)} The pronghorn may have evolved (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution) its running ability to escape from now-extinct predators such as the American cheetah (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_cheetah), since its speed greatly exceeds that of all extant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extant_taxon) North American predators.^{[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronghorn#cite_note-hawes-8)[28] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronghorn#cite_note-Byers1997-29): 318} Compared to its body size, the pronghorn has a large windpipe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trachea), heart, and lungs to allow it to take in large amounts of air when running. Additionally, pronghorn hooves (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoof) have two long, cushioned, pointed toes which help absorb shock when running at high speeds.^{[29] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronghorn#cite_note-sandiego-30)} They also have an extremely light bone structure (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone) and hollow hair (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hair).
Pronghorns are built for speed, not for jumping. Since their ranges are sometimes affected by sheep ranchers' fences, they can be seen going under fences, sometimes at high speed. For this reason, the Arizona Antelope Foundation and others are in the process of removing the bottom barbed wire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbed_wire) from the fences, and/or installing a barbless bottom wire.^{[30] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronghorn#cite_note-31)}
The pronghorn has been observed to have at least 13 distinct gaits (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gait), including one reaching nearly 7.3 m (8.0 yd) per stride.^{[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronghorn#cite_note-hawes-8)}

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on February 22, 2022, 08:00:07 AM

Commonly seen in and around Cody WY where my folks live.  An aside, they can do some serious damage to gold courses.  They look amazing when they are hustling.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on February 22, 2022, 08:06:27 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 06:44:18 AM

News from Ukraine is not good, but pretty much as expected.  Slice and dice.

Clearly the strategy to sanction after the fact to deter Putin has failed. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 22, 2022, 08:32:45 AM

Why would say Germany ignore what is in it's best interests specially after the shit show in this country.That they could sell a few overpriced vehicles to rather than getting cheap energy as opposed a nation of gridlocked politics and social upheaval that promises but could deliver very little.Unless of course we start pushing buttons.Should Russia pull off their coup then China's spine will naturally grow.Perhaps going for Taiwan,then what?Hopefully this is just Chicken Little screaming the sky is falling but appears all too real.
The Corporate's - the guys who really put us in this conundrum by sending the jobs oversees in the 1st place as they pocketed the difference.Better start manufacturing chips at least because if they don't something wicked this way comes and maybe a lot quicker than we had realized

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 08:37:09 AM

Why would you think the shitshow in Germany is any better than here?  They have a massive mess on their hands, far worse than anything we're dealing with here, not the least of which derives from the fact that they actively chose to entrust large portions of their energy needs to the whims of a despotic dictator.  

Anyway, in related news:

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1496080150085177344?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1496080150085177344%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FAP%2Fstatus%2F1496080150085177344%3Ft%3DFqzP8UZ2_VN21Nwnc2DBkg26s%3D09

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 22, 2022, 08:42:10 AM

Well I'm suprised they certainly don't have the social upheavel and special interests tearing at the fabric of the country apart that we do .The only thing i can think of is they maybe concerned that Putin won't stay put.And the Russians appear to be keeping their people warm also so they have that going for them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 08:51:06 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 22, 2022, 08:42:10 AM

Well I'm suprised they certainly don't have the social upheavel and special interests tearing at the fabric of the country apart that we do .The only thing i can think of is they maybe concerned that Putin won't stay put.And the Russians appear to be keeping their people warm also so they have that going for them.

Why would you say that?  How could you believe it?  They're having weekly protests, some turning violent, over COVID measures.  Their government is warning of the "radicalization of the right" which basically means they don't want people standing up for themselves or their rights.  They want peaceful, docile little followers.

I don't know why, but it continues to surprise me when people idealize various countries, especially those in Europe, as if they don't suffer from the exact same sorts of issues we do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 08:58:47 AM

Europe is Heaven, so I heard 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 22, 2022, 09:03:18 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 08:51:06 AM

Why would you say that?  How could you believe it?  They're having weekly protests, some turning violent, over COVID measures.  Their government is warning of the "radicalization of the right" which basically means they don't want people standing up for themselves or their rights.  They want peaceful, docile little followers.

There is a book everyone should read called Radical Honesty.Tell the truth regardless of the reprisals.They may have some social unrest but if you think they have the same racial unrest simmering underneath on top of that you're sadly mistaken.So factoring in finger pointing and playing the race card is A Powder Keg waiting to happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 09:03:46 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 08:58:47 AM

Europe is Heaven, so I heard

 I love Europe, I really do.  I just know it well enough to know it's not much different than the US when it comes to political struggles and social issues.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 22, 2022, 09:03:57 AM

Quote from: MarqHusker on February 22, 2022, 08:00:07 AM

Commonly seen in and around Cody WY where my folks live.  An aside, they can do some serious damage to gold courses.  They look amazing when they are hustling. 

Didn't know they are in Cody. I have several friends who live there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 22, 2022, 09:04:35 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 09:03:46 AM

I love Europe, I really do.  I just know it well enough to know it's not much different than the US when it comes to political struggles and social issues.

It's worse in many spots.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 09:06:26 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 22, 2022, 09:04:35 AM

It's worse in many spots.

Overall, bigotry is worse over there than here.  People who haven't spent much time there don't seem to comprehend this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 09:13:16 AM

Anyway, now that Germany has killed NS2, will Putin respond by cutting off NS1 and the other pipelines into Europe?  It would harm them, but it would also harm his own country.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 22, 2022, 09:20:43 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 09:06:26 AM

Overall, bigotry is worse over there than here.  People who haven't spent much time there don't seem to comprehend this.

Maybe but if you'd like to leave me a link to Cities on fire,business trashed their Law inforcement buildings inhabited and torched ....from coast to coast then I'd like to see it.I happened to be 5 miles away from Downtown when it was N.E. Ohio's turn for these luminaries to give our town a make over.My mechanic friend still has his business.Unfortunately his friend's who had a furniture business,Hair Salon and Pizza Parlor don't.People who haven't  witnessed it don't seem to comprehend this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on February 22, 2022, 09:24:44 AM

We should send a few of our Texas boys over to Europe and show them what the frac is up.  They probably already have enough O/G under their ground they wouldn't even need Russia's.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 22, 2022, 09:27:12 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 22, 2022, 09:20:43 AM

Maybe but if you'd like to leave me a link to Cities on fire,business trashed their Law inforcement buildings inhabited and torched ....from coast to coast then I'd like to see it.I happened to be 5 miles away from Downtown when it was N.E. Ohio's turn for these luminaries to give our town a make over.My mechanic friend still has his business.Unfortunately his friend's who had a furniture business,Hair Salon and Pizza Parlor don't.People who haven't  witnessed it don't seem to comprehend this.

I'll never forget watching Kenosha burn. I still have dreams about it, and they are not good dreams.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 22, 2022, 09:27:14 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on February 22, 2022, 08:06:27 AM

Clearly the strategy to sanction after the fact to deter Putin has failed. 

sanctions wouldn't work as a deterrent. if you're getting punished for potentially doing something, might as well actually do it and try to make it worth it. the hope was the threat of sanctions might deter it, but didn't either.

what's kinda bs is that the sanctions are relatively small, so far. we were told if russia further invades that the sanctions would be harsh. i thought that meant officially invading, not just proxy like has been since 2014. instead, apparently, "further" meant the current proxy is still ok kinda, but anymore and we'll do the bad sanctions. it's like a double secret probation. some of the eu countries seem to be doing more serious ones, so maybe those will work. and maybe that was the plan, let the eu try to deal with it first, i don't know. i'm not opposed to that, btw, just not what i interpreted/expected from before.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 22, 2022, 09:27:26 AM

Quote from: Gigem on February 22, 2022, 09:24:44 AM

We should send a few of our Texas boys over to Europe and show them what the frac is up.  They probably already have enough O/G under their ground they wouldn't even need Russia's. 

The beautiful people that live there wouldnt allow it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 22, 2022, 09:28:58 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 08:51:06 AM

Why would you say that?  How could you believe it?  They're having weekly protests, some turning violent, over COVID measures.  Their government is warning of the "radicalization of the right" which basically means they don't want people standing up for themselves or their rights.  They want peaceful, docile little followers.

I don't know why, but it continues to surprise me when people idealize various countries, especially those in Europe, as if they don't suffer from the exact same sorts of issues we do.

this all day long. I love Europe, used to go every single year for awhile there. Like almost 10 years in a row I would go for at least a couple weeks. Had a trip planned and paid for in May of 2020 - then COVID hit here in March and everything got canceled. 

I love Europe but I am not going back there for awhile. A lot of those countries governments have gone bat-shit crazy oppressive since COVID- not exactly to the level of Australia or Canada - but man - no thanks. Will not be going back or spending my money there any time soon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 22, 2022, 09:29:05 AM

Quote from: Gigem on February 22, 2022, 09:24:44 AM

We should send a few of our Texas boys over to Europe and show them what the frac is up.  They probably already have enough O/G under their ground they wouldn't even need Russia's. 

ukraine in particular is pretty rich in natural resources.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 22, 2022, 09:29:19 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 09:03:46 AM

I love Europe, I really do.  I just know it well enough to know it's not much different than the US when it comes to political struggles and social issues.

in many ways, it's worse. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 22, 2022, 09:29:28 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 22, 2022, 09:04:35 AM

It's worse in many spots.

yup.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 22, 2022, 09:32:32 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 22, 2022, 09:29:28 AM

yup.

I remember going from Barcelona to "Rome" on a cruise back in 2017. We debark in Italy, and there are military with AR's standing at the gate. Probably 50 of them. You don't see that shit here. Only in Utopia.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 22, 2022, 09:34:44 AM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 22, 2022, 09:27:14 AM

sanctions wouldn't work as a deterrent. if you're getting punished for potentially doing something, might as well actually do it and try to make it worth it. the hope was the threat of sanctions might deter it, but didn't either.

Good post I'm just ruminating but the West has lost a lot of it's teeth to China,courtesy of the 1%ers here. So they may not need the West at all as long as the CCP would concur/consent

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 22, 2022, 09:39:14 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 22, 2022, 09:28:58 AM

this all day long. I love Europe, used to go every single year for awhile there. Like almost 10 years in a row I would go for at least a couple weeks. Had a trip planned and paid for in May of 2020 - then COVID hit here in March and everything got canceled.

I love Europe but I am not going back there for awhile. A lot of those countries governments have gone bat-shit crazy oppressive since COVID- not exactly to the level of Australia or Canada - but man - no thanks. Will not be going back or spending my money there any time soon.

We were discussing upheavals - just different types evidently.And ya know something the University of Texas started all this with the Longhorn Network.The froth has worked it way to the rest of of CFB then society then overseas - I blame them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 09:42:21 AM

Yes UT and the LHN are evil and nobody should ever move to Texas.

Thank You For Your Support

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 22, 2022, 09:45:59 AM

There are a few crazies out there willing to give it a shot - Austin I hear is ground zero for their habitation

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 22, 2022, 09:54:24 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 09:13:16 AM

Anyway, now that Germany has killed NS2, will Putin respond by cutting off NS1 and the other pipelines into Europe?  It would harm them, but it would also harm his own country.

there will be some kind of political settlement and they'll work this all out imo. Europe needs that gas desperately and they are Russia's biggest customer. Russian gas is 40-50% cheaper for Europe to purchase than US liquified natural gas. That's a lot less. And north of 40% of Europe's entire natural gas supply comes from Russia. They need each other.

The US shouldn't have pushed so hard and for so long to bring Ukraine into it's orbit and pick it off from Russia. Since 1992 the US has spent $5.2 billion in Ukraine trying to "democratize" that country. The money this country just pisses down the drain on stupid shit is beyond ridiculous. No wonder why the national deficit is what it is. I have no clue why on earth they would even want a corrupt worthless useless country like Ukraine in their sphere of influence other than to f**k with Russia. I really don't. It holds zero strategic value to have it in our sphere of influence and to have them in NATO. Literally zero. Actually, less than zero because of the conflict it's causing right now.

And one of the main reasons why Ukraine hasn't been able to join NATO (aside from pushback from Russia and France and Germany blocking it at every turn) is that Ukraine is a spectacularly corrupt country- and after the US backed coup (which included supporting literal nazis) of a democratically elected government in 2014- it is still a hilariously corrupt country. And NATO doesn't let corrupt countries join- it's part of their mo- NO CORRUPTION! But I think corruption is just par for the course with the US though- whenever the US tends to get involved with coups or nation building- the governments that follow are hilariously corrupt- just look at the US backed propped up governments in Iraq and Afghanistan- both basically as corrupt as it possibly gets.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 10:01:38 AM

Ukraine can't be admitted to NATO while there are any disputes at all ongoing.  Putin knows this and continues to ensure disputes are ongoing.  That's been his strategy for the past 8 years.

But this looks different.  He doesn't want or need the regions that his invasion forces are "liberating."  There's no significant economic or strategic benefit to those two regions.

That's why I believe this is just the next step to a complete invasion. Putin wants Ukraine.  He wants its natural resources, he wants its people back within his domain.  He doesn't want two small regions.  He's trying to force Ukraine into responding so he can justify his next steps for complete takeover.  But even if they don't respond, I don't believe he's going to stop after annexing these two "independent" states.

He wants Ukraine.  All of it.  And he believes it's his right to take it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 22, 2022, 10:02:02 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 22, 2022, 09:54:24 AM

The US shouldn't have pushed so hard and for so long to bring Ukraine into it's orbit and pick it off from Russia. Since 1992 the US has spent $5.2 billion in Ukraine trying to "democratize" that country. The money this country just pisses down the drain on stupid shit is beyond ridiculous.

Doesn't the Apple of Sleepy Joe's eye have some stake their?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 22, 2022, 10:03:27 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 22, 2022, 09:32:32 AM

I remember going from Barcelona to "Rome" on a cruise back in 2017. We debark in Italy, and there are military with AR's standing at the gate. Probably 50 of them. You don't see that shit here. Only in Utopia.

yeah pretty much every country they have military dudes with machine guns at airports, train stations - shit I even remember seeing that at the Eiffel Tower once. They have police/military walking around in public with machine guns like it's nothing but none of the citizens are allowed to own guns. Most of Europe is not free. Not like we are here. They have the illusion of freedom.

Most of those countries don't protect freedom of speech or freedom of the press. Shoot in France back in the late 80s or early 90s I want to say they banned some writers book in which denied the holocaust and then threw the guy in jail. They constantly do shit like that. I believe France even censors the entire internet. UK has no freedom of the press or free speech either. Ever been to London? There's 50 billion cameras everywhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 22, 2022, 10:04:53 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 08:58:47 AM

Europe is Heaven, so I heard

that's Iowa

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 22, 2022, 10:05:23 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 10:01:38 AM

He wants Ukraine.  All of it.  And he believes it's his right to take it.

Hope you're wrong but it sounds about right. The whole damn thing could get pretty ugly,perhaps Putin will be bitting off his nose to spite his face

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 10:09:28 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 22, 2022, 10:05:23 AM

Hope you're wrong but it sounds about right. The whole damn thing could get pretty ugly,perhaps Putin will be bitting of his nose to spite his face

I don't think he's thinking particularly long-term.  He's almost 70 and knows he doesn't have a lot of time left.  He might feel that he's waited long enough.

But I certainly hope the worst doesn't happen, and I especially hope the US keeps our troops out of it, if the worst DOES happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 22, 2022, 10:13:34 AM

Maybe there could be some either dissenters or non Russian militants in their ranks might have a go at Vlad. I mean they can't all get along,right?....like we do here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 22, 2022, 10:14:05 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 10:01:38 AM

Ukraine can't be admitted to NATO while there are any disputes at all ongoing.  Putin knows this and continues to ensure disputes are ongoing.  That's been his strategy for the past 8 years.

But this looks different.  He doesn't want or need the regions that his invasion forces are "liberating."  There's no significant economic or strategic benefit to those two regions.

That's why I believe this is just the next step to a complete invasion. Putin wants Ukraine.  He wants its natural resources, he wants its people back within his domain.  He doesn't want two small regions.  He's trying to force Ukraine into responding so he can justify his next steps for complete takeover.  But even if they don't respond, I don't believe he's going to stop after annexing these two "independent" states.

He wants Ukraine.  All of it.  And he believes it's his right to take it.

You make a great point about conflicts/disputes- one I made a few days ago. Because hypothetically - Ukraine were to join NATO tomorrow- WWIII kicks off as the other NATO members would be compelled to defend Ukraine. Russia doing this crap helps ensure Ukraine isn't joining NATO anytime soon.

Even if there were zero disputes though, Ukraine still would not be eligible to join NATO. They do not meet the threshold when it comes to corruption. They are a spectacularly corrupt country.

Yanukovych was trying to stay neutral. He wisely dropped unrealistic NATO membership aspirations. Putin didn't "want Ukraine all for himself" before the US backed coup in 2014. There was no real evidence of that. Why does he want it all for himself now? My guess here is he's further mucking sh*t up in order to force some kind of solution and to ensure Ukraine never joins NATO. I hope he doesn't actually invade Ukraine take Kiev and start a real war because if that does happen unfortunately I think US will get involved and I don't want to see any more American blood and treasure spent on more pointless wars that have zero meaning to the US and it's people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 22, 2022, 10:16:25 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 22, 2022, 10:13:58 AM

keeping the size of the police force down while giving soldiers something constructive to do?

I thought i read that'Hadrian kept his soldiers busy building that wall across the Scottish/English frontier.So they were occupied and not thinking of a replacement for him

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 22, 2022, 10:18:10 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 22, 2022, 10:16:25 AM

I thought i read that'Hadrian kept his soldiers busy building that wall across the Scottish/English frontier.So they were occupied and not thinking of a replacement for him

I was replying to a post regarding armed forces in European countries at airports and such, but it got lost somehow

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 22, 2022, 10:19:41 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 22, 2022, 10:18:10 AM

I was replying to a post regarding armed forces in European countries at airports and such, but it got lost somehow

Sensorship - the Deep State is coming for us or it's just utee effing around - grab your clubs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 10:22:11 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 22, 2022, 10:14:05 AM

Even if there were zero disputes though, Ukraine still would not be eligible to join NATO. They do not meet the threshold when it comes to corruption. They are a spectacularly corrupt country.

Totally agree with this.  And Putin knows it too.  Which is why it's irrational for Putin to be afraid of it happening.

I think Putin is selfish and greedy and brutal but I don't think he's irrational.

Which means he's not invading Ukraine because he's afraid of it becoming a NATO country, that's nothing more than a pretext.  He's invading simply because he wants the Ukraine.  

And if being surrounded by NATO countries is really such a bother to him, then this is the worst move he could make, because this invasion is almost certain to push Finland and Sweden into NATO.  Which is, again, an irrational move, if he actually does care about restricting further NATO expansion along or near his borders.

So I don't think he really gives a rat's ass about NATO's involvement.  He just wants the Ukraine and he believes he can take it without direct military intervention from the West.   I hope he's right about the last part, anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 22, 2022, 10:31:24 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 22, 2022, 10:18:16 AM

Isn't Biden's son somehow has busness affairs in the Ukraine?

Lol. Yeah, the crack head son was getting paid $83,000 a month starting in 2014 to sit on a company board by Burisma - a Ukrainian energy company - after the overthrow of a democratically elected government by a US backed coup in 2014 - while his father was appointed head of Ukraine policy by Obama.

And in December of 2015, Biden flew to Kiev and strong-armed the new Ukrainian government into firing its top prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, who was investigating Burisma at the time. Shokin had seized four large houses and a Rolls-Royce Phantom belonging to the Burisma's majority owner Mykola Zlochevsky.

Three months later, Shokin was forced out of office, and nine months later, all legal proceedings against Burisma were dropped. Joe Biden has said in the past that Shokin wasn’t doing enough to crack down on corruption and that the push had nothing to do with Hunter’s position. In a 2018 speech at the Council on Foreign Relations, Biden bragged that he had threatened to withhold $1 billion in US loan guarantees for Ukraine unless Shokin was fired. Shokin claims that he was fired specifically because he was investigating Burisma's corruption.

Once Obama/Biden left office and Trump came in - Burisma started cutting crack head sons pay in half- but continued to pay him until 2019- when he resigned from the board after everything came out and it started to damage his fathers presidential campaign.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 22, 2022, 10:40:08 AM

As I previously suggested Trudeau has chosen to hold onto his emergency powers saying its not over

The streets are clear and most of the protestors have been arrested so basically Canada has become a dictatorship.

Now a lot of folks are thinking that the next election will correct things but I predict that this emergency will be deemed so great that elections will be suspended

It looks to me that either the military will have to step in or the people will have to restore democracy by force

This is one of the main reasons we have a 2nd amendment in this country

whats interesting is the fact that this country's state department has not made a peep about this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on February 22, 2022, 10:40:33 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 22, 2022, 09:27:26 AM

The beautiful people that live there wouldnt allow it

Attitudes quickly change when you’re freezing in the dark. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 10:51:34 AM

Quote from: Gigem on February 22, 2022, 10:40:33 AM

Attitudes quickly change when you’re freezing in the dark.

Ain't that the truth.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 11:13:09 AM

And in other news...

Job Pishing is officially a thing.

Quote

The elaborate con that tricked dozens into working for a fake design agency

Apparently dozens of folks around the world were phished into working for a fake design agency, some went up to 6 months without pay, before the truth came out.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60387324?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on February 22, 2022, 12:04:03 PM

So what was the con?  Identity theft?  Payment not rendered for services performed ? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 12:11:36 PM

Quote from: Gigem on February 22, 2022, 12:04:03 PM

So what was the con?  Identity theft?  Payment not rendered for services performed ?

Yeah payment not rendered.

It's really weird because there's no way to know whether or not the con artist ever made any money off them.  After 6 months of building up clients and bidding out work, as far as he told the workers, they'd still never closed a deal.  It's possible that was true, or it's possible he pocketed whatever money might have been made. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 12:30:06 PM

Germany is decommissioning its nuclear plants, which means they will burn more coal and natural gas (from Russia) and buy power from France.  Putin has played this nicely over the years funding the Green Parties in Germany.

Ukraine could shut off shipments of NG through the one pipeline.

I read the US is now shipping more LNG to Europe than they get from Russia, but it's close.  LNG is expensive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 12:35:12 PM

Not only is LNG expensive but Germany lacks access to sufficient LNG import terminals to satisfy much of their incremental demand, should Russia cut off their pipeline supply.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 12:44:28 PM

My wife tells me that living in  France is "complicated" in many ways, things like getting a DL or just moving.  I've watched others sell their house, it's a protracted process, not nearly as smooth as it is here.  Getting zoning changed requires grease.  She says living there is very different from spending time as a visitor.

There is some definite appeal to thinking about living in Provence in a small town.  Your house or apartment would be maybe half what you could get here, maybe like living in SF or close pricewise.  Taxes of course bite hard in the middle class.  And government operates to "make work" and put up barriers to things.  

Not like here where government is a smoothly running efficient and honest machine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 12:48:23 PM

Just back from Costco ($550) and I bought some branzino, head on, for dinner tonight.  I'm going to try and make a red pepper sauce.  Any ideas on how best to cook the fish?  I'll probably broil, might try the cast iron.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 12:51:03 PM

Salt-baked branzino is one of the best dishes I've ever had.

I've never done it myself but how hard could it be? ;)

https://cookingwithwineblog.com/salt-baked-branzino/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 22, 2022, 01:00:11 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 12:48:23 PM

Just back from Costco ($550) and I bought some branzino, head on, for dinner tonight.  I'm going to try and make a red pepper sauce.  Any ideas on how best to cook the fish?  I'll probably broil, might try the cast iron.

Cast iron that bad boy.

If you need a red pepper sauce, let me know. To keep things simple, I just buy the peppers already roasted, in a jar.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 01:09:57 PM

Yeah, I bought roasted peppers at Costco, some butter and minced garlic and herbs and cream.  I like the salt recipe but have no kosher salt, probably will cast iron it very hot.

1. Clean and pat dry a 1 lb branzino filet with paper towels. Season the two sides of the fish with salt and pepper. 
2. In a 10-inch nonstick pan over medium-high heat, add 1 tbsp butter and 1 tbsp olive oil. Place the branzino filet in the pan, skin side down, and cook for 3 minutes. 
3. Flip the filet and top it with 1/4 cup sliced red onion and 2 sprigs of thyme. Cover the pan before turning down the heat, cook for another 3 minutes or until the center is no longer translucent and is browned outside and white inside. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 01:54:02 PM

It's time to admit it: Mitt Romney was right about Russia - CNNPolitics (https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/22/politics/mitt-romney-russia-ukraine/index.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 22, 2022, 02:14:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 01:54:02 PM

It's time to admit it: Mitt Romney was right about Russia - CNNPolitics (https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/22/politics/mitt-romney-russia-ukraine/index.html)

No, no he wasn't. Mitt Romney is a mormon dunce. He can f**k off back to Utah with all his wives and read Joseph Smith's gold plates or whatever it is those weird f**ks do. Obama was right about Russia. 

China is by far and without question the United States' number one geopolitical foe. The only country that could possibly challenge the United States and end our world hegemony is China. 

And this entire fiasco with Ukraine and Russia would not be happening if we didn't play a huge role in throwing gasoline on the fire.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 22, 2022, 02:16:56 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 06:28:59 PM

Nobody with any expertise or authority on the matter would claim vaccines were 100% effective.  They simply weren't.  Maybe some idiots claimed it, so I suppose that counts.

(https://i.ibb.co/smy3dp2/Screen-Shot-2022-02-22-at-2-15-11-PM.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: DunkingDan on February 22, 2022, 02:19:14 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 12:30:06 PM

Germany is decommissioning its nuclear plants, which means they will burn more coal and natural gas (from Russia) and buy power from France.  Putin has played this nicely over the years funding the Green Parties in Germany.

Ukraine could shut off shipments of NG through the one pipeline.

I read the US is now shipping more LNG to Europe than they get from Russia, but it's close.  LNG is expensive.

Is Israel an net exporter yet?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 22, 2022, 02:19:32 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 12:35:12 PM

Not only is LNG expensive but Germany lacks access to sufficient LNG import terminals to satisfy much of their incremental demand, should Russia cut off their pipeline supply.

which is why Germany wants a resolution to this conflict. Not just Germany. All of Europe really. Because it's not just Germany that buys Russian gas. Something like north of 40% of all the natural gas in Europe is bought from Russia. And the US LNG is 40-50% more expensive than the Russian gas.

This conflict is good for America, bad for Europe and bad for Russia. Putting more $$$$$ in our coffers, taking money out of theirs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 22, 2022, 02:20:39 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 12:44:28 PM

My wife tells me that living in  France is "complicated" in many ways, things like getting a DL or just moving.  I've watched others sell their house, it's a protracted process, not nearly as smooth as it is here.  Getting zoning changed requires grease.  She says living there is very different from spending time as a visitor.

There is some definite appeal to thinking about living in Provence in a small town.  Your house or apartment would be maybe half what you could get here, maybe like living in SF or close pricewise.  Taxes of course bite hard in the middle class.  And government operates to "make work" and put up barriers to things. 

Not like here where government is a smoothly running efficient and honest machine.

great joke lol! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 02:34:25 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 22, 2022, 02:19:32 PM

which is why Germany wants a resolution to this conflict. Not just Germany. All of Europe really. Because it's not just Germany that buys Russian gas. Something like north of 40% of all the natural gas in Europe is bought from Russia. And the US LNG is 40-50% more expensive than the Russian gas.

This conflict is good for America, bad for Europe and bad for Russia. Putting more $$$$$ in our coffers, taking money out of theirs.

"Germany wants a resolution to this conflict" is a bit misleading.

The truth is that Germany wanted to ignore the conflict completely, but Putin backed them into a corner.  They never should have made the stupid decisions to tie so much of their energy requirements to the whims of a despotic dictator, but they did, and here they are.  One way or the other, they're now going to have to pay for that error.

And as you point out, the same is true for much of the rest of Europe.  It's just that most of the rest of Europe isn't all that important from a geopolitical or economic standpoint.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 22, 2022, 02:39:20 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 10:22:11 AM

Totally agree with this.  And Putin knows it too.  Which is why it's irrational for Putin to be afraid of it happening.

I think Putin is selfish and greedy and brutal but I don't think he's irrational.

Which means he's not invading Ukraine because he's afraid of it becoming a NATO country, that's nothing more than a pretext.  He's invading simply because he wants the Ukraine. 

And if being surrounded by NATO countries is really such a bother to him, then this is the worst move he could make, because this invasion is almost certain to push Finland and Sweden into NATO.  Which is, again, an irrational move, if he actually does care about restricting further NATO expansion along or near his borders.

So I don't think he really gives a rat's ass about NATO's involvement.  He just wants the Ukraine and he believes he can take it without direct military intervention from the West.  I hope he's right about the last part, anyway.

I don't know. I wouldn't assume that he's afraid of it happening anytime soon. Just the fact that it could happen in the future is something that Russia has to see as a threat to it's national security/national interests. Which I think one could make a credible argument for. I can definitely see that argument on their side- not hard to.

Putin was in power in Russia for 15 years before he ever got aggressive with Ukraine or made a real move on them. If he wanted Ukraine then why did it take him 15 years to make a move at all? And he didn't make a move until after a democratically elected government was overthrown in a US backed coup in 2014. Think what you want of Yanukovych or his government, but his election was deemed by several open observers as free and fair. Yanukovych was openly talking of neutrality- not being tied to the West or East- and he publicly abandoned Ukraine's quest for NATO membership. After he was overthrown- the new Ukraine government completely reversed course and has even baked future NATO and EU membership into it's constitution with a constitutional amendment in 2019. The government in Ukraine went from being friendly to Russia and neutral- to pretty hostile and aligned with US/NATO/EU almost overnight. That's when shit hit the fan and Putin made moves.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 02:46:35 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 22, 2022, 02:39:20 PM

I don't know. I wouldn't assume that he's afraid of it happening anytime soon. Just the fact that it could happen in the future is something that Russia has to see as a threat to it's national security/national interests. Which I think one could make a credible argument for. I can definitely see that argument on their side- not hard to.

Putin was in power in Russia for 15 years before he ever got aggressive with Ukraine or made a real move on them. If he wanted Ukraine then why did it take him 15 years to make a move at all? And he didn't make a move until after a democratically elected government was overthrown in a US backed coup in 2014. Think what you want of Yanukovych or his government, but his election was deemed by several open observers as free and fair. Yanukovych was openly talking of neutrality- not being tied to the West or East- and he publicly abandoned Ukraine's quest for NATO membership. After he was overthrown- the new Ukraine government completely reversed course and has even baked future NATO and EU membership into it's constitution with a constitutional amendment in 2019. The government in Ukraine went from being friendly to Russia and neutral- to pretty hostile and aligned with US/NATO/EU almost overnight. That's when shit hit the fan and Putin made moves.

He moved on Georgia in 2008.  Crimea in 2014.  Belarus throughout 2021, and now he's invaded Ukraine in 2022.  The pattern is repetitious and obvious.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 22, 2022, 02:50:14 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 02:34:25 PM

"Germany wants a resolution to this conflict" is a bit misleading.

The truth is that Germany wanted to ignore the conflict completely, but Putin backed them into a corner.  They never should have made the stupid decisions to tie so much of their energy requirements to the whims of a despotic dictator, but they did, and here they are.  One way or the other, they're now going to have to pay for that error.

And as you point out, the same is true for much of the rest of Europe.  It's just that most of the rest of Europe isn't all that important from a geopolitical or economic standpoint.

Meh. US has tied it's currency/manufacturing/supply chains to the whims of far more brutal and despotic dictators than Vladimir Putin. MbS and Xi Jinping make Vladimir Putin look like child's play. Price of doing business I guess. This is the real world, not utopia. 

Saudi's have been committing a near genocide in Yemen, crushing an entire country and wiping out an entire people. Childs play to anything Putin has ever done or will do, and the Saudi's do it with US political cover and US weaponry and while we look the other way, cause ya know.....we kinda need them on our side to continue our world hegemony.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 22, 2022, 03:10:45 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 02:46:35 PM

He moved on Georgia in 2008.  Crimea in 2014.  Belarus throughout 2021, and now he's invaded Ukraine in 2022.  The pattern is repetitious and obvious.

these are all nothing countries not worth a squirt of piss nor worth the US's time, energy or effort.

He moved on Georgia in large part because of the NATO issue. There was huge tension because of this. Georgia participated in NATO's illegal Iraq war in 2003 by sending troops, and was invited in 2008 to become a future member of NATO and were actively pushing to join NATO/EU. Their president at the time was very pro NATO/US/EU- and obviously Putin or any leader of Russia would not like this. The conflict did not go hot until after President Mikheil Saakashvili sent troops into South Ossetia. And you can blame Russia all you want for stoking those flames of separatists- but the fact is the fighting in Georgia goes back to the early '90s right after the collapse of the Soviet Union. A civil war erupted in Georgia when two provinces- South Ossetia and Abkhazia sought to declare their own independence and it wasn't until a ceasefire in 1994 which caused the hostilities to end- but tensions in those separatists regions never went away.

Again, he didn't move on Ukraine (Crimea) in 2014 until after a US backed coup (which had elements of neo-nazism in leadership roles btw) toppled Yanukovych's democratically elected government. And while he technically invaded Crimea - they had thousands of troops already there as Russia has military bases there which were leased until 2042, they just took Crimea with the forces that were already there. And this did not happen until after the overthrow of Yanukovych.

And I don't know if would call him recognizing the separatists regions of Ukraine as independent and then sending forces into those separatists regions as invading to be honest with you. Ukraine doesn't and hasn't controlled those regions for almost a decade. If tanks start rolling and he bombs and holds Kiev- then I'm with you.

My whole point is- why the f**k is the US putting these countries in these situations continually? Why do we even want to pick them off from Russia and pull them out of their sphere of influence and into ours? And why are we doing this when we know it will inflame and piss Russia off and cause them to respond- and then when Russia responds we don't really do a god damn thing to help these stupid countries that fall for our bullshit hook line and sinker? Like did piss ant Georgia or broke ass Ukraine really think the US was going to come to their defense? LOL.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 22, 2022, 03:14:33 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 22, 2022, 03:10:45 PM

these are all nothing countries not worth a squirt of piss nor worth the US's time, energy or effort.

According to Sun Tzu in The Art of War - Vlad's doing it precisely right

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 22, 2022, 03:18:32 PM

Trump says China 'absolutely' going after Taiwan after Russia-Ukraine 'disaster'

Trump described China's Xi Jinping, Russia's Vladimir Putin as 'twin sisters' (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-china-taiwan-russia-ukraine)

Have to love this guys flair for the dramatic....calling these jerkoff dictators twin sisters is actually pretty funny. I do think he's wrong however. US might actually go to war with China over Taiwan, and I think China knows this. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 22, 2022, 03:21:42 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 22, 2022, 03:18:32 PM

Trump says China 'absolutely' going after Taiwan after Russia-Ukraine 'disaster'

Trump described China's Xi Jinping, Russia's Vladimir Putin as 'twin sisters' (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-china-taiwan-russia-ukraine)

Have to love this guys flair for the dramatic....calling these jerkoff dictators twin sisters is actually pretty funny. I do think he's wrong however. US might actually go to war with China over Taiwan, and I think China knows this.

While Trump might I dont think Biden would

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 03:21:51 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 22, 2022, 03:10:45 PM

these are all nothing countries not worth a squirt of piss nor worth the US's time, energy or effort.

Why do you keep derailing yourself with irrelevance and whataboutism nonsense?  I don't think anyone here is asserting that the US necessarily should become involved in it. Some of us are saying Europe absolutely must worry about it.

This is the "In Other News" thread.  We talk about news here.  An ongoing invasion of one country by another is news, whether you like it or not.  If you don't want to discuss it, then don't.  It's just that easy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 22, 2022, 03:33:11 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 22, 2022, 03:18:32 PM

Trump says China 'absolutely' going after Taiwan after Russia-Ukraine 'disaster'

Trump described China's Xi Jinping, Russia's Vladimir Putin as 'twin sisters' (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-china-taiwan-russia-ukraine)

Have to love this guys flair for the dramatic....calling these jerkoff dictators twin sisters is actually pretty funny. I do think he's wrong however. US might actually go to war with China over Taiwan, and I think China knows this.

agree with this. if china is planning on going after taiwan, they're either doing the most stealthy build up ever, or doing a terrible job of it. that won't be a "just wait till ground is hard enough" decision like ukraine. taiwan doesn't have easy access for troops on ground, either. very limited on where a ground assault will happen. will make d-day look pedestrian.
not to mention the us has 3 carrier strike groups pacific off coast of taiwan/philippines, another in japan, and another near hawaii (mid pacific, hard to tell). for comparison, there's only 1 near europe (mediteranean sea). https://news.usni.org/2022/02/07/usni-news-fleet-and-marine-tracker-feb-7-2022

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 03:37:09 PM

I might just be overly optimistic, but I don't see China making open military moves for an invasion of Taiwan.  There would be so much global blowback, including and especially the possibility of actual military action from the US.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 03:52:11 PM

The Taiwan Strait is a B^&*( for China.  Aside from the potential of US carrier groups, there are subs that could wreck mayhem on supply ships supporting the invasion.  And subs could drop mines.  Some modern mines have active homing and detonate under the keel at some depth breaking the back of the target.  Taiwan should have some cheaper electric boats that can mine the straits.  Electric boats are very quiet and tough to detect without active sonar.

And of course the neat thing about a sub attack is that it is plausibly deniable.  

I would be hesitant to order out carrier groups into range of Chinese land based bombers.

Anyway, I think China is content to play the LOONNNGGGG game more than Putin is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 04:03:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 03:52:11 PM

The Taiwan Strait is a B^&*( for China.  Aside from the potential of US carrier groups, there are subs that could wreck mayhem on supply ships supporting the invasion.  And subs could drop mines.  Some modern mines have active homing and detonate under the keel at some depth breaking the back of the target.  Taiwan should have some cheaper electric boats that can mine the straits.  Electric boats are very quiet and tough to detect without active sonar.

And of course the neat thing about a sub attack is that it is plausibly deniable. 

I would be hesitant to order out carrier groups into range of Chinese land based bombers.

Anyway, I think China is content to play the LOONNNGGGG game more than Putin is.

For sure.  They think and plan generationally.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 04:08:26 PM

Invading Taiwan any time soon would be very messy, and fraught with perils galore, and gain China rather little short term.  Meanwhile they create islands in the South China Sea and fortify them as prelude for economic development (oil probably and other things).  They can "invest" in Africa for the same reasons and gradually develop a Sphere of Influence for their Own Prosperity.  They COULD also delve into making a ton of consumer goods for the massive US market and run a huge balance of trade surplus with us, that too would be very clever, and it might even happen someday.

Probably not, we can make our own toys.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 22, 2022, 04:14:18 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 04:03:24 PM

For sure.  They think and plan generationally.

Until they ignore Batman

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 04:15:43 PM

I have to say that the online social media sparring is a new part of the prelude to warfare that I find fairly entertaining.

(https://i.imgur.com/jbd39AD.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 04:34:32 PM

I wonder how a vehicle of that ilk actually drives on a normal road, not very good I imagine.

There is a Jeep in the garage here that shows up with a lot of mud on it at times.  Other than some normal looking nonstock wheels, it's not lifted, he has fun with it it seems.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 04:47:12 PM

Dallas and Houston lead, which makes sense, and then MYC make the top five, which doesn't except it's large.

Atlanta cracks top 5 metros for most development over past decade | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/top-cities-most-development-past-decade-study-storagecafe)

Construction around me is going crazy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 22, 2022, 04:56:25 PM

surprised nashiville isn't on there. have family there and they are growing and building like crazy. at one point in last few years, was fastest growing city in us, population wise. though it is still relatively small compared to those others listed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 22, 2022, 04:57:09 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 04:34:32 PM

I wonder how a vehicle of that ilk actually drives on a normal road, not very good I imagine.

There is a Jeep in the garage here that shows up with a lot of mud on it at times.  Other than some normal looking nonstock wheels, it's not lifted, he has fun with it it seems.

Jeeps don't really need much more than stock to do any off-roading that most typical weekenders would be willing to attempt anyway. 

But a simple lift and some bigger tires look cool. That's why I'm doing the 2 1/2" lift and some 35" tires. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 05:01:37 PM

I don't mind a person who buys such a Jeep and drives it in the mud, it's cool.  I wonder about folks who buy one and only drive it on pavement,  they aren't very good at that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 05:04:39 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/EfdhWpA.png)

And don't cross the streams.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 05:24:41 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 05:01:37 PM

I don't mind a person who buys such a Jeep and drives it in the mud, it's cool.  I wonder about folks who buy one and only drive it on pavement,  they aren't very good at that.

Jeepers call those "mall crawlers" or "mall queens."  Those are not intended to be polite terms. :)

Personally I don't much care how or where people use their vehicles.  Jeeps look cool, and they're (sort-of) convertibles.  They're fun, even on city roads.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 05:30:05 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 22, 2022, 04:57:09 PM

Jeeps don't really need much more than stock to do any off-roading that most typical weekenders would be willing to attempt anyway.

But a simple lift and some bigger tires look cool. That's why I'm doing the 2 1/2" lift and some 35" tires.

Our Rubicon already has a modest lift from the factory.  As soon as these 33s that came with it are done, which will be soon, I'll go to 35s.  I'm thinking either KO2s or Nitto Ridge Grapplers, any thoughts/preferences?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 22, 2022, 06:16:46 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 05:30:05 PM

Our Rubicon already has a modest lift from the factory.  As soon as these 33s that came with it are done, which will be soon, I'll go to 35s.  I'm thinking either KO2s or Nitto Ridge Grapplers, any thoughts/preferences?

I've had no experience with either... When I last got new rubber I went with the Goodyear Duratrac, which I picked because they're known for good on-road manners but have a tread pattern that suggests they'll be fine in anything I dare to throw at this Jeep. Not sure if they come in the right sizes for a big 35 though...

Are you planning on going new wheels too? I'm going to be shooting for 35x12s, so it'll require new rims. My era Rubicon had 32" and that rim won't accommodate anything like a 35x12. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 06:25:08 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 05:24:41 PM

Jeepers call those "mall crawlers" or "mall queens."  Those are not intended to be polite terms. :)

Personally I don't much care how or where people use their vehicles.  Jeeps look cool, and they're (sort-of) convertibles.  They're fun, even on city roads.

Yeah, it doesn't really bother me, though it's like a kid on an 18 speed bike that only uses one gear.

The only things that bother me of late aside from the Egg Lobby is the return of The Scooter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 06:26:54 PM

I'm making a red pepper sauce with the Branzino, which the wife wants me to cook in the oven.  in the interest of marital harmony etc.  Costco has roasted red peppers.  I don't have any basil, but used some Italian seasoning.  And black pepper.  And butter and cream.

Do I take the head of the fish off or leave it on?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 22, 2022, 06:32:17 PM

Toyo open country or Cooper stt pros... both great tires, with slight edge to Toyo.. both will last with well aligned, balanced, and suspended north of 70k miles in most cases.  

Nittos are, generally, stupid heavy.  The disadvantage the coops have to toyo is weight.  But nitto? Wear fast due to soft compounds and that weight... spun weight is x4... kills low end usable torque and overall fuel mileage.   Toyo are lighter and though made of similar soft compounds they're more strategic where they use it.  

I've ran all kinds of at and mt tires, having used them on and off road and on everything from light weight trail machines purpose built to 1ton diesel pickups more wide open road ready than offroad... the STT pros were my favorite as "do all"... they wore great on a 11k# diesel and didn't scream the whole time as the toyos are apt to do.  

Of course when I pointed that big pig on 2400mile legs of road I'd often swap whatever I was running for a set of nitto duragrappler- super quiet, stiff enough, and highway tread for best mileage.... hard as a rock, and terrible in wet... but mileage couldn't be beat... its the one nitto that's light.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 06:33:16 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/Y8zlk3X.png)

Tua paying off a bet, good deal.  He doesn't need to make excuses.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 06:40:03 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 22, 2022, 06:16:46 PM

I've had no experience with either... When I last got new rubber I went with the Goodyear Duratrac, which I picked because they're known for good on-road manners but have a tread pattern that suggests they'll be fine in anything I dare to throw at this Jeep. Not sure if they come in the right sizes for a big 35 though...

Are you planning on going new wheels too? I'm going to be shooting for 35x12s, so it'll require new rims. My era Rubicon had 32" and that rim won't accommodate anything like a 35x12.

I should be able to go up to 35 on the same wheels, a friend who has the same year of JKU Rubicon did so.  He did KO2s but I've heard good things about the Nittos during my "research" but that research is probably about as good as investigating horse paste as a cureall for COVID so who knows.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 06:42:06 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on February 22, 2022, 06:32:17 PM

Toyo open country or Cooper stt pros... both great tires, with slight edge to Toyo.. both will last with well aligned, balanced, and suspended north of 70k miles in most cases. 

Nittos are, generally, stupid heavy.  The disadvantage the coops have to toyo is weight.  But nitto? Wear fast due to soft compounds and that weight... spun weight is x4... kills low end usable torque and overall fuel mileage.  Toyo are lighter and though made of similar soft compounds they're more strategic where they use it. 

I've ran all kinds of at and mt tires, having used them on and off road and on everything from light weight trail machines purpose built to 1ton diesel pickups more wide open road ready than offroad... the STT pros were my favorite as "do all"... they wore great on a 11k# diesel and didn't scream the whole time as the toyos are apt to do. 

Of course when I pointed that big pig on 2400mile legs of road I'd often swap whatever I was running for a set of nitto duragrappler- super quiet, stiff enough, and highway tread for best mileage.... hard as a rock, and terrible in wet... but mileage couldn't be beat... its the one nitto that's light. 

Thanks for the info, sir.

I currently have the original MT tires on it so any AT tire is going to wear longer and ride better.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 22, 2022, 06:58:23 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 06:33:16 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/Y8zlk3X.png)

Tua paying off a bet, good deal.  He doesn't need to make excuses.

lol, i was so confused for a minute until i read your caption.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2022, 07:28:48 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 05:24:41 PM

Jeepers call those "mall crawlers" or "mall queens."  Those are not intended to be polite terms. :)

Personally I don't much care how or where people use their vehicles.  Jeeps look cool, and they're (sort-of) convertibles.  They're fun, even on city roads.

Depends on whether or not you've had back surgery.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 23, 2022, 08:01:26 AM

You guys realize that modern Jeeps aren't the same as 1940s Army jeeps, right? :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2022, 08:10:06 AM

Sure, the one in our garage is quite largish and pretty fancy and of course enclosed.  Are Jeeps any better at off roading than some equivalent vehicle designed for the same purpose?  

I know most SUVs are really station wagons with a higher stance and every convenience known to man and probably AWD.  I saw a Jetta station wagon at Costco yesterday and mentioned to my wife that it was a nice design, if they had had a GTI version I might have gone for it, but they discontinued the model of course.  Cadillac actually built some CTS-V station wagons with MANUAL TRANSMISSIONS back when.  They were insane.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 23, 2022, 09:39:34 AM

Insane? Good/bad/ugly?My mechanic buddy and the on line expert do not recommend VWs.Having had 2 - I've always had problems and the expense that goes with fixing them,even when parts were reasonable.They were fun to drive though so if you don't mind that go for it. I've had 3 Toyota's,under carraige rust got one after 16 yrs,an SUV got another that was 12 yrs old, the 3rd is a 2010 in my garage.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 23, 2022, 09:43:29 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 23, 2022, 08:01:26 AM

You guys realize that modern Jeeps aren't the same as 1940s Army jeeps, right? :)

not with that attitude they're not. :86:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 23, 2022, 09:44:14 AM

so that new electric GMC Hummer looks pretty bad ass. Why go with GMC badge and not just Hummer? Oh, and it's going to be pretty expensive, $109k base price according to the google. When GM last made the H2 Hummer back in 2009 I want to say the base price was around $58k. Almost doubled in price in only 12-13 years. Bidenflation! JKJK. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 23, 2022, 10:04:56 AM

bidenflation or not, autos are just stupid expensive right now. bought my wife's van a couple years ago used, and it's worth about 1.5 time today vs what i paid 2+ years ago. i'd love to cash in on that, but i'd be dropping it right back into another over inflated car.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 23, 2022, 10:07:10 AM

also, that hummer looks good, but it looks more akin to an h1 than an h2. much bigger and heavier than an h2 was, about the same if not slightly more than an h1 was.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 23, 2022, 10:09:52 AM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 23, 2022, 10:04:56 AM

bidenflation or not, autos are just stupid expensive right now. bought my wife's van a couple years ago used, and it's worth about 1.5 time today vs what i paid 2+ years ago. i'd love to cash in on that, but i'd be dropping it right back into another over inflated car.

well, we deserve this mess to be frank. this is what can happen when you give up your entire supply chain, manufacturing base, and rare earth mineral mining completely up to China. US used to control about 99% of rare earth mineral mining in the world. China now controls around 95%. 

if we had a functioning government none of this would have ever happened.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 23, 2022, 10:10:49 AM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 23, 2022, 10:07:10 AM

also, that hummer looks good, but it looks more akin to an h1 than an h2. much bigger and heavier than an h2 was, about the same if not slightly more than an h1 was.

I like the SUV version a lot better than the pick up version. Think it looks way better imo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2022, 10:12:43 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 23, 2022, 08:10:06 AM

Sure, the one in our garage is quite largish and pretty fancy and of course enclosed.  Are Jeeps any better at off roading than some equivalent vehicle designed for the same purpose? 

I know most SUVs are really station wagons with a higher stance and every convenience known to man and probably AWD.  I saw a Jetta station wagon at Costco yesterday and mentioned to my wife that it was a nice design, if they had had a GTI version I might have gone for it, but they discontinued the model of course.  Cadillac actually built some CTS-V station wagons with MANUAL TRANSMISSIONS back when.  They were insane.

Jeeps are typically better at off-roading "out of the box" than most other SUV-type vehicles, particularly the Wrangler (built for off-roading) and the Gladiator (Wrangler with a truck bed), and the Grand Cherokee. I understand that if you go full out with a Range Rover or a Toyota Land Cruiser, you're in good shape as well. 

The Grand Cherokee, Range Rover, Land Cruiser are all more "overlander" vehicles, meaning that they're more capable of competent behavior in some dicey areas, but they're not really designed for hardcore rock-crawling use.

Then you've got vehicles that are more akin to Wrangler competitors, like the Toyota FJ Cruiser and the revamped Ford Bronco, which likewise are good "out of the box" off-roaders. They're targeting the off-road market, with more aggressive approach, breakover, and departure angles in their designs, like the Wrangler. 

That said, it's more a decision than a fundamental capability. The recipe to build a competent off-roader isn't rocket science. Jeep aims out of the box with a little more ground clearance, 4WD, and beefier suspension components to target the off-road market. Nearly any 4WD pickup truck or true 4WD SUV can be just as capable off-road as a stock Jeep with light mods. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2022, 10:35:17 AM

Not a fan of that Hummer. At all. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2022, 10:53:07 AM

So, in branzino news, my wife "recommended" I cook it in the oven instead of cast iron, so I did.  The fish was good, I think any method would make tasty branzino.  My red pepper sauce needs some work though I liked it, she didn't.  Our guest said he liked it but you never know.  The fish come head on and cleaned but it's all there.  I think next time I would go ahead of filet them and get rid of the bones as much as possible and probably cast iron it.  For $15 it fed three.

I had the Chateau St. Michelle Indian Wells chardonnay with it.  That is pretty good for the money, about $11 here by the case.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 23, 2022, 11:24:44 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 23, 2022, 10:09:52 AM

well, we deserve this mess to be frank. this is what can happen when you give up your entire supply chain, manufacturing base, and rare earth mineral mining completely up to China. US used to control about 99% of rare earth mineral mining in the world. China now controls around 95%.

if we had a functioning government none of this would have ever happened.

"WE" don't the criminals in the board rooms did,morally bankrupt barons. What do you think Vlad would do to these f***? - because he certainly did it to the Charalatans in Russia

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 23, 2022, 11:25:37 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2022, 10:12:43 AM

Jeeps are typically better at off-roading "out of the box" than most other SUV-type vehicles, particularly the Wrangler (built for off-roading) and the Gladiator (Wrangler with a truck bed), and the Grand Cherokee. I understand that if you go full out with a Range Rover or a Toyota Land Cruiser, you're in good shape as well.

The Grand Cherokee, Range Rover, Land Cruiser are all more "overlander" vehicles, meaning that they're more capable of competent behavior in some dicey areas, but they're not really designed for hardcore rock-crawling use.

Then you've got vehicles that are more akin to Wrangler competitors, like the Toyota FJ Cruiser and the revamped Ford Bronco, which likewise are good "out of the box" off-roaders. They're targeting the off-road market, with more aggressive approach, breakover, and departure angles in their designs, like the Wrangler.

That said, it's more a decision than a fundamental capability. The recipe to build a competent off-roader isn't rocket science. Jeep aims out of the box with a little more ground clearance, 4WD, and beefier suspension components to target the off-road market. Nearly any 4WD pickup truck or true 4WD SUV can be just as capable off-road as a stock Jeep with light mods.

big big fan of the new broncos (non-sport versions). 1988 bronco eddie bauer edition was my first vehicle. loved that thing. i'd still have it if i hadn't run into a financial bind about 20 years ago.

i'd get one now except they're either in too bad shape that i don't want to fix up, or in nice shape but more than i can spend on a toy right now.

already decided the new bronco is likely my next new vehicle. figured i'd give them a few years to work out the kinks in the new engines and transmissions before committing though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 23, 2022, 11:28:38 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 23, 2022, 10:09:52 AM

well, we deserve this mess to be frank. this is what can happen when you give up your entire supply chain, manufacturing base, and rare earth mineral mining completely up to China. US used to control about 99% of rare earth mineral mining in the world. China now controls around 95%.

if we had a functioning government none of this would have ever happened.

one of the (potential) silver linings of pandemic is opening eyes to this issue. several industries have said they'll be bringing back at least some manufacturing to states, with key reasoning is to prevent supply chain issues like we've had. now whether or not they actually follow through with those plans...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2022, 11:32:40 AM

Rare Earth Elements: Where in the World Are They? (visualcapitalist.com) (https://www.visualcapitalist.com/rare-earth-elements-where-in-the-world-are-they/)

Global Reserves of Rare Earth Minerals
China tops the list for mine production and reserves of rare earth elements, with 44 million tons in reserves and 140,000 tons of annual mine production.
While Vietnam and Brazil have the second and third most reserves of rare earth metals with 22 million tons in reserves and 21 million tons, respectively, their mine production is among the lowest of all the countries at only 1,000 tons per year each.

[th]Country[/th] [th]Mine Production 2020[/th] [th]Reserves[/th] [th]% of Total Reserves[/th]
China	140,000	44,000,000	38.0%
Vietnam	1,000	22,000,000	19.0%
Brazil	1,000	21,000,000	18.1%
Russia	2,700	12,000,000	10.4%
India	3,000	6,900,000	6.0%
Australia	17,000	4,100,000	3.5%
United States	38,000	1,500,000	1.3%
Greenland	-	1,500,000	1.3%
Tanzania	-	890,000	0.8%
Canada	-	830,000	0.7%
South Africa	-	790,000	0.7%
Other Countries	100	310,000	0.3%
Burma	30,000	N/A	N/A
Madagascar	8,000	N/A	N/A
Thailand	2,000	N/A	N/A
Burundi	500	N/A	N/A
[th]World Total[/th] [th]243,300[/th] [th]115,820,000[/th] [th]100%[/th]

While the United States has 1.5 million tons in reserves, it is largely dependent on imports from China for refined rare earths.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2022, 11:34:00 AM

If your known reserves are "X", it's probably a challenge for even a functioning government to change that.  Perhaps a better approach is to develop technologies that require lower amounts of them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on February 23, 2022, 11:38:14 AM

There's a large rare earth mine on the California-Nevada border that could be re-opened rather quickly if need be.  Only reason it shut down was due to competition from China.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2022, 11:40:21 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on February 23, 2022, 11:38:14 AM

There's a large rare earth mine on the California-Nevada border that could be re-opened rather quickly if need be.  Only reason it shut down was due to competition from China.

That would up production, but not "known reserves".  I'd guess we have quite a bit of unknown stuff out west that has never been discovered.  If it's not economical to explore and produce, no one would be interested in finding it much.

At any rate, the hyperbole here is characteristic of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 23, 2022, 11:44:08 AM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 23, 2022, 11:25:37 AM

big big fan of the new broncos (non-sport versions). 1988 bronco eddie bauer edition was my first vehicle. loved that thing. i'd still have it if i hadn't run into a financial bind about 20 years ago.

My buddy had that exact model.We took it to Onterio/Quebec for 12 years - towing a 16 ft bass boat.He got another bronco after that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 23, 2022, 11:56:52 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 23, 2022, 11:24:44 AM

"WE" don't the criminals in the board rooms did,morally bankrupt barons. What do you think Vlad would do to these f***? - because he certainly did it to the Charalatans in Russia

I say WE deserve it, because WE keep voting for the useless idiots that allowed it all to happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 23, 2022, 11:57:21 AM

I dig the new Broncos, they look great and a lot of thought went into their design and development.

A friend of mine got one and we're set to go out in a couple of weeks to a local offroach adventure park where we're going to compare them head to head.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 23, 2022, 11:58:50 AM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 23, 2022, 11:28:38 AM

one of the (potential) silver linings of pandemic is opening eyes to this issue. several industries have said they'll be bringing back at least some manufacturing to states, with key reasoning is to prevent supply chain issues like we've had. now whether or not they actually follow through with those plans...

they won't. too much money to be made in China on the backs of slave labor. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 23, 2022, 12:03:03 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on February 23, 2022, 11:38:14 AM

There's a large rare earth mine on the California-Nevada border that could be re-opened rather quickly if need be.  Only reason it shut down was due to competition from China.

it wasn't just competition from China that killed it, huge clean up costs and environmental regulation also helped to kill it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 23, 2022, 12:06:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 23, 2022, 11:40:21 AM

That would up production, but not "known reserves".  I'd guess we have quite a bit of unknown stuff out west that has never been discovered.  If it's not economical to explore and produce, no one would be interested in finding it much.

At any rate, the hyperbole here is characteristic of course.

These are known reserves. Rare earth minerals are well....not that rare at all. US most definitely has lot of undiscovered rare earths all over this country, just haven't put the money into exploration/discovery.

There is no hyperbole here. Things going over a certain someones head is pretty characteristic of course. 

In 1980, 99% of the worlds rare earths came from the United States. Now it's basically nothing. US planners are trying to change this as we speak.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 23, 2022, 12:11:17 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 23, 2022, 11:34:00 AM

If your known reserves are "X", it's probably a challenge for even a functioning government to change that.  Perhaps a better approach is to develop technologies that require lower amounts of them.

yeah, or not.

Rare earths are not rare at all. Despite their name. The known reserves are the known reserves because there hasn't been exploration in decades because well...there is no more rare earths industry in the US anymore and there has not been in decades. It virtually doesn't exist. China controls about 95%.

Perhaps a better approach would be having a functioning government that can regulate, invest and plan, and play the long game and isn't completely corrupt and sold out to the interests of multi-national billion dollar corporations at almost every level. That might help a little bit more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2022, 12:19:40 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 23, 2022, 10:09:52 AM

well, we deserve this mess to be frank. this is what can happen when you give up your entire supply chain, manufacturing base, and rare earth mineral mining completely up to China. US used to control about 99% of rare earth mineral mining in the world. China now controls around 95%.

if we had a functioning government none of this would have ever happened.

These figures above are hyperbole, and incorrect, somewhat akin to how 60% of restaurants failed and never reopened.

I like to stick to reliable figures when they are available.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 23, 2022, 12:43:36 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 23, 2022, 12:19:40 PM

These figures above are hyperbole, and incorrect, somewhat akin to how 60% of restaurants failed and never reopened.

I like to stick to reliable figures when they are available.

No, they are not hyperbole. You can look them up if you wish. And the 60% was me quoting Yelp from an old article I read awhile back. I didn't make it up. Yelp did. Turns out they were wrong, as The Real Deal reported according to the National Restaurant Association the actual number was 14%.

The Nixon administration allowed China and it's mining industry and scientists to come and observe US rare earth mines in the 70s and basically taught them how it's done. This obviously backfired on the US- as did most US dealings with China. US market became more expensive to produce as environmental regulations and huge clean up costs became massive cost burdens on the mining companies and China eventually ramped up production and strategically flooded the entire rare earths market- subsidized the entire Chinese rare earths industry and sold their product at a loss in order to undercut the entire world market and take over. Instead of the US trying to subsidize a vital industry important to national interest as well as putting protections like massive tariffs on Chinese rare earths and putting sanctions the Chinese- US basically just let it happen. In 1980 the US controlled 99% of the rare earths market. In the 1990s the US started to give up their chokehold on rare earths to China with not even an attempt to stop it from happening - all while the US gave China most favored nation status which made permanent trade relations normalized - and the US paved the way and pushed for China to join the WTO. The US gov't obviously should not have done any of this. They did this all so US multi-nationals can exploit cheap slave labor in China. And then when our stupid short sighted multinational set up shop in China - the idiots agreed to set up new joint-ventures that with CCP backed entity owning half of the jv....and oh yeah...they also forced US multi-nationals to give up trade secrets, IP, and tech. GREAT JOB 'MERICA!

80% of US imports of rare earths in 2019 came from China. China has used their world dominance on rare earths as a geopolitical weapon, even blocking the export of rare earths to Japan and suspending exports to the US and Europe as well. China is not our friend. They are our enemy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2022, 12:48:22 PM

I did look it up, and posted the data.  China does not control 95% of the world's rare earth production.

Why don't we stick to facts when they are readily available?  Is it more fun to post something dramatically untrue and hyperbolic?  Reality is dire enough.

China’s dominance of rare earths supply is a growing concern in the West | South China Morning Post (scmp.com) (https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3130990/chinas-dominance-rare-earths-supply-growing-concern-west)

• China provides more than 85 per cent of the world’s rare earths and it is home to about two-thirds of the global supply of rare metals and minerals like antimony and baryte, report says
• US and Europe are worried that any disruption to their supply chains for such products would hurt key industries.

U.S. dependence on China's rare earth: Trade war vulnerability | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-china-rareearth-explainer/u-s-dependence-on-chinas-rare-earth-trade-war-vulnerability-idUSKCN1TS3AQ)

China supplied 80% of the rare earths imported by the United States from 2014 to 2017.
China is home to at least 85% of the world’s capacity to process rare earth ores into material manufacturers can use, according to research firm Adamas Intelligence.
It would take years to build enough processing plants to match China’s processing capacity of 220,000 tonnes - which is five times the combined capacity of the rest of the world.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 23, 2022, 12:55:33 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 23, 2022, 11:57:21 AM

I dig the new Broncos, they look great and a lot of thought went into their design and development.

A friend of mine got one and we're set to go out in a couple of weeks to a local offroach adventure park where we're going to compare them head to head.

i'm not jealous at all, you bastage.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 23, 2022, 01:16:02 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 23, 2022, 12:55:33 PM

i'm not jealous at all, you bastage.

Heh... well, he's the one with the brand-new Bronco, and I'm the one with the 4-year-old Jeep.  So we can both be jealous of him, although the Jeep is still in great condition.

His has the Badlands trim, with the Sasquatch package, which is basically their highest and best off-road combination, and is designed to be comparable to the Wrangler Rubicon (which is what I have).  Looks just like this:


(https://i.imgur.com/YO2zFoT.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2022, 01:28:36 PM

Nice Rover copy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 23, 2022, 01:35:15 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 23, 2022, 01:16:02 PM

Heh... well, he's the one with the brand-new Bronco, and I'm the one with the 4-year-old Jeep.  So we can both be jealous of him, although the Jeep is still in great condition.

His has the Badlands trim, with the Sasquatch package, which is basically their highest and best off-road combination, and is designed to be comparable to the Wrangler Rubicon (which is what I have).  Looks just like this:


(https://i.imgur.com/YO2zFoT.png)

I will take the Rubicon. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 23, 2022, 01:38:41 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 23, 2022, 12:48:22 PM

I did look it up, and posted the data.  China does not control 95% of the world's rare earth production.

Why don't we stick to facts when they are readily available?  Is it more fun to post something dramatically untrue and hyperbolic?  Reality is dire enough.

China’s dominance of rare earths supply is a growing concern in the West | South China Morning Post (scmp.com) (https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3130990/chinas-dominance-rare-earths-supply-growing-concern-west)

• China provides more than 85 per cent of the world’s rare earths and it is home to about two-thirds of the global supply of rare metals and minerals like antimony and baryte, report says
• US and Europe are worried that any disruption to their supply chains for such products would hurt key industries.

U.S. dependence on China's rare earth: Trade war vulnerability | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-china-rareearth-explainer/u-s-dependence-on-chinas-rare-earth-trade-war-vulnerability-idUSKCN1TS3AQ)

China supplied 80% of the rare earths imported by the United States from 2014 to 2017.
China is home to at least 85% of the world’s capacity to process rare earth ores into material manufacturers can use, according to research firm Adamas Intelligence.
It would take years to build enough processing plants to match China’s processing capacity of 220,000 tonnes - which is five times the combined capacity of the rest of the world.

Oh my bad. It's 85% according to your link and not 95% like I thought it was. What a major difference! Not. That's still incredible world dominance. And I was wrong because I was quoting it from an article I read awhile back- which I found in my saved links tab- and turns out I was wrong because that article said at it's peak China was producing 98% of the worlds rare earths. Link (https://qz.com/1962580/china-is-insecure-about-its-global-rare-earths-dominance).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 23, 2022, 01:40:01 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2022, 01:28:36 PM

Nice Rover copy.

As was the original Ford Bronco, basically.

And the Rover was a copy of the jeep.

I had a buddy in high school that had a vintage 60s Bronco, I loved that thing.

(https://i.imgur.com/oBs0A7m.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 23, 2022, 01:42:40 PM

the new Bronco is pretty cool. And shockingly Ford was set to announce/unveil it on OJ Simpson's birthday until they received huge backlash and apologized for not realizing it was OJ's birthday. 

They should make an all-white special edition call it the Bronco OJ. I bet it'd actually sell.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2022, 01:43:24 PM

I would drive this.

(https://i.imgur.com/Zx4Cdhi.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 23, 2022, 01:45:01 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2022, 01:43:24 PM

I would drive this.

[img width=500 height=273.996]https://i.imgur.com/Zx4Cdhi.png[/img]

That'd make a real nice mall crawler.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 23, 2022, 01:59:58 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 23, 2022, 01:16:02 PM

Heh... well, he's the one with the brand-new Bronco, and I'm the one with the 4-year-old Jeep.  So we can both be jealous of him, although the Jeep is still in great condition.

His has the Badlands trim, with the Sasquatch package, which is basically their highest and best off-road combination, and is designed to be comparable to the Wrangler Rubicon (which is what I have).  Looks just like this:


(https://i.imgur.com/YO2zFoT.png)

(https://y.yarn.co/a144b66f-3b17-4cd7-ac4e-213352ed7528_text.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2022, 02:03:17 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 23, 2022, 01:45:01 PM

That'd make a real nice mall crawler.

It would also eat up a lot of performance cars.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2022, 02:04:13 PM

My wife really wants a Volvo XC90 Inscription. I keep pushing the Benz, but she loves her some Volvo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 23, 2022, 02:05:28 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 23, 2022, 01:40:01 PM

As was the original Ford Bronco, basically.

And the Rover was a copy of the jeep.

I had a buddy in high school that had a vintage 60s Bronco, I loved that thing.

(https://i.imgur.com/oBs0A7m.jpg)

those are beautiful, but even worse than the later full size models as far as needs to repair vs cost. a well kept one can top $100k easy, and a pristine one will usually be north of $200k.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2022, 02:12:16 PM

I was never a Volvo fan.  I had a brief liking for Saabs but never bought one.

I think today all cars are about the same overall within the same classification.  You can just about buy this brand because you like the interior better.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 23, 2022, 02:16:22 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 23, 2022, 02:05:28 PM

those are beautiful, but even worse than the later full size models as far as needs to repair vs cost. a well kept one can top $100k easy, and a pristine one will usually be north of $200k.

Yeah that wouldn't surprise me at all.  His parents were loaded but this was in the 80s so they weren't so pricey then.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 23, 2022, 02:24:52 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 23, 2022, 01:16:02 PM

Heh... well, he's the one with the brand-new Bronco, and I'm the one with the 4-year-old Jeep.  So we can both be jealous of him, although the Jeep is still in great condition.

His has the Badlands trim, with the Sasquatch package, which is basically their highest and best off-road combination, and is designed to be comparable to the Wrangler Rubicon (which is what I have).  Looks just like this:

the rubicon a 4 door? my brother had a 96 jeep wrangler just before i turned 16 and had my bronco. i preferred mine, but must admit, the jeep was hella fun in the mud. 4 speed manual, what i learned to drive on.

side story, we flipped his jeep going to the beach when i was 15. long story short, he'd been in nashville at a basketball camp. one of those get up early, practice all day, go to bed late, rinse/repeat for a week. when it was over, he met us in bham and we started heading to beach. me and him in jeep, mom and younger siblings in van in front. about half way there, he fell asleep at wheel. i was asleep in passenger side, facing window. this was back when seat belts were still optional. and for some reason i had literally just put mine on not 5 min before. i woke up to grinding noise, saw the asphalt hit window and disappear, and then a surreal swirl. kinda crazy, but time really does seem to slow down in moments like that. other cars said we rolled around 10-12 times. landed upside down on inside lane of oncoming traffic, and rocked back down into median right side up. neither of us injured more than a little whiplash and a very minor cut on my elbow that didn't even need stitching. clothes and stuff were everywhere. my poor mom was running back down interstate screaming her head off. i was so dazed, i'd gotten a cell phone of someone who'd stopped and was trying to call my mom at home, lol. my brother was out picking up clothes. she thought we were dead and no one was helping us. roll bar 100% saved our lives that day. that beach trip was... i didn't enjoy it. went through it like a haze. every once in a while i still get feeling like i cheated death and i'm not supposed to be here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2022, 02:30:19 PM

I really like the Bronco... In pictures. 

The ones I've seen on the road, however, all look cheap and insubstantial.

I'm sure none of them have been Badlands/Sasquatch models though. Maybe that makes a difference.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 23, 2022, 02:36:52 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 23, 2022, 02:24:52 PM

the rubicon a 4 door? 

Yup.  And, glad you survived the rollover, that's very scary stuff. 

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2022, 02:30:19 PM

I really like the Bronco... In pictures.

The ones I've seen on the road, however, all look cheap and insubstantial.

I'm sure none of them have been Badlands/Sasquatch models though. Maybe that makes a difference.

Yeah the base models look pretty wimpy.  This Badlands/Sasquatch is definitely meatier visually, and seems solid while onboard.  I haven't driven it yet so can't comment on what that feels like.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 23, 2022, 02:42:10 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2022, 02:03:17 PM

It would also eat up a lot of performance cars.

Yeah I'm sure.

I don't much care about performance cars, as I'm sure everyone around here has figured out. But to each his own.

If I were going to get a Rover of any kind, I suppose it'd be a Defender. 


(https://i.imgur.com/99hy2hd.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2022, 02:49:18 PM

My problem with "performance cars" is that one really can't use the performance legally very much at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 23, 2022, 02:50:02 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2022, 02:30:19 PM

I really like the Bronco... In pictures.

The ones I've seen on the road, however, all look cheap and insubstantial.

I'm sure none of them have been Badlands/Sasquatch models though. Maybe that makes a difference.

most of the ones i've seen are sport models, which are just another soccer mom suv. i've only seen 2 of the full size ones for more than a glance, and they both looked fun one was very similar to the picture posted.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 23, 2022, 03:07:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 23, 2022, 02:49:18 PM

My problem with "performance cars" is that one really can't use the performance legally very much at all.

Prolly for the better as most really can't handle the performance logically very much at all

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2022, 03:18:22 PM

I know I can't handle a "performance car" very well at all, even on a track.  They're beyond my capabilities.  But it's fun to try, on a track.  

My cousin way back had a real Jeep, Army surplus I guess, I recall his driving it down the creek bed one day with me in it just because he could.  He lived in the country on a farm, so it wasn't ridiculous.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2022, 03:23:22 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 23, 2022, 02:42:10 PM

I don't much care about performance cars, as I'm sure everyone around here has figured out. But to each his own.

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 23, 2022, 02:49:18 PM

My problem with "performance cars" is that one really can't use the performance legally very much at all.

Same here. I really do enjoy driving fast and enjoy driving high performance vehicles. But I can't prioritize that with other things at this point in my life, as I need a car that can shuttle kids and dogs around. The Ford Flex is boring as hell, but it's such a perfectly functional vehicle for this time in my life that I love it. 

Although I could pretty easily buy myself a trackday-only vehicle (i.e. not supercar, something like a track-ready Miata or other similar vehicle), I don't have time for another hobby. I barely have time for the ones I already have. 

So for me, the Jeep is my toy. It's not fast, but it's a hell of a lot of fun to drive around in the California sunshine with the top down [or removed entirely, in my case]. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2022, 03:26:41 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 23, 2022, 02:12:16 PM

I was never a Volvo fan.  I had a brief liking for Saabs but never bought one.

I think today all cars are about the same overall within the same classification.  You can just about buy this brand because you like the interior better.

I bought a Volvo in 1997, a used 1995. 27K miles on it.

Ended up getting rid of it in 2015, with 425K miles on it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 23, 2022, 03:27:52 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 23, 2022, 11:56:52 AM

I say WE deserve it, because WE keep voting for the useless idiots that allowed it all to happen.

And you seem to think they controll the Conglomerates? Bought out,do you recall what you post from day to day?. Again all that crap left in the middle east by who,for what,how come and why - but Biden who ran on the premise in 2008 that he would pull everthing out and and now doesn't? Give me Imperial Powers for a week i guarantee the the deck will get shufflled and the middle class wouldn't be getting the bill.These F****** have had their tentacles in the treasury/congress so long they dictate policy while disguishing evidence as an incompetant Congress.Which is obviously part true. "We" didn't get bought out.These assholes have taken a vow to serve the people,not the barons.I almost wish a Vlad was in Power at least long last some of these knobs would get what they have coming

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2022, 03:31:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 23, 2022, 03:18:22 PM

I know I can't handle a "performance car" very well at all, even on a track.  They're beyond my capabilities.  But it's fun to try, on a track. 

I'm somewhat the opposite. I'm no race car driver, but back when I had my motorcycle I was one of the quicker guys on the track, even though I was deeply behind other guys on the same bike in power:weight ratio lol... 

Same with any various of the indoor higher-performance go kart tracks... We did a big event for a work thing a few years back, and out of 70 people participating, I was 3rd-fastest. Again, with one of the worst power:weight ratios of anyone in the entire field. 

I view at as combination of two things... One is understanding the actual physics of racing... Optimal racing lines, weight transfer, etc to get the most out of what you have. The other is the willingness to push until I start finding the limits, which a lot of people are terrified to do. I'm intellectual enough to know what to do on a racetrack, and stupid enough to try it :72:

Now, if you're talking about supercars, I agree that by the time we reach their limits, I'm exceeding mine. But in any given performance driving "competition" against the general public, I'd probably claim I'd be at the very least in the upper decile of lap times, and maybe even top 5%. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2022, 04:40:52 PM

I probably could beat most of the public on a track, especially in a car with a manual.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2022, 04:44:20 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 23, 2022, 04:40:52 PM

I probably could beat most of the public on a track, especially in a car with a manual.

I'd be surprised if >50% of the public can even drive a manual. You'd leave most of them stuck on the starting line :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on February 23, 2022, 04:50:30 PM

Forgot now who asked, but the name of the vehicle is Hummer. Not the brand. Or so I was told. It’s a GMC hummer. They’re not resurrecting hummer. 

It’s basically going to be a low production test vehicle for GM to get into the EV truck game.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2022, 05:07:46 PM

Introducing the GMC HUMMER EVs | Electric Truck & SUV (https://www.gmc.com/electric/hummer-ev)

(https://i.imgur.com/VBsmYhZ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2022, 05:09:35 PM

The Hummer optionally has "Crab Walk".  huh.

2022 GMC HUMMER EV "Crab Walk" Mode In Action | Tesla Fans don't LIKE this ! - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsvJShy7-lA)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 23, 2022, 05:11:29 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2022, 03:26:41 PM

I bought a Volvo in 1997, a used 1995. 27K miles on it.

Ended up getting rid of it in 2015, with 425K miles on it.

That’s the thing about them. Maybe you don’t like them, but they stubbornly refuse to die. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 23, 2022, 05:29:08 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2022, 04:44:20 PM

I'd be surprised if >50% of the public can even drive a manual. You'd leave most of them stuck on the starting line :57:

i thought he meant they were on foot. ;D

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on February 23, 2022, 05:31:26 PM

I thought I read under 20% of driving public can drive a stick.    It's been awhile but I can.   Sure is a great anti-theft measure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2022, 05:33:19 PM

I once was buying a car and told the salesman I wanted one with a manual.  He responded, "They all have one in the glove compartment."

Seriously.

I got a different sales guy.  That was my Sonic, which I got with a manual.  My daughter put quite a few miles on it after I donated it to her.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 23, 2022, 05:45:15 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/Vd5GDT1.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2022, 06:16:29 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on February 23, 2022, 05:31:26 PM

I thought I read under 20% of driving public can drive a stick.    It's been awhile but I can.  Sure is a great anti-theft measure.

When my eldest (now 14 1/2) learns to drive, he will learn to drive a stick on the Jeep. 

Speaking of that... I need to teach my wife how to drive a stick on that same Jeep; she doesn't know how yet lol...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 23, 2022, 06:27:11 PM

Bought a new laptop as my old Chromebook was running pretty slow. I decided to go with a Windows machine, and I immediately regretted that trying to navigate the weirdly confusing Windows. I was even going to be ok with using Edge instead of Chrome, until nothing worked, and the instructions made no sense. I can only imagine the amount of time and money and employees contributing to trying to get people to use Edge. Maybe they need more English majors on the team.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 23, 2022, 06:29:15 PM

We use Chrome on our Windows boxes.  Is there some reason you can't?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 23, 2022, 06:32:29 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 23, 2022, 06:29:15 PM

We use Chrome on our Windows boxes.  Is there some reason you can't?

You can, but they beat you over the head about it. "Did You Know Edge Uses The Same Technology as Chrome?" "You need to switch out of S mode to use Chrome. Be careful, you can never use S mode again!"

It's essentially the same setup as when you try to cancel cable and they have 10 hoops to jump through.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2022, 06:33:19 PM

This is why I try only to use Linux.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 23, 2022, 06:47:58 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on February 23, 2022, 06:32:29 PM

You can, but they beat you over the head about it. "Did You Know Edge Uses The Same Technology as Chrome?" "You need to switch out of S mode to use Chrome. Be careful, you can never use S mode again!"

It's essentially the same setup as when you try to cancel cable and they have 10 hoops to jump through.

Just switch to Chrome and let it be set as your default.

I work for an enormous company that has a very tight partnership with Microsoft, and yet our default browser on all corporate images is Chrome.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 23, 2022, 07:00:44 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on February 23, 2022, 06:27:11 PM

Bought a new laptop as my old Chromebook was running pretty slow. I decided to go with a Windows machine, and I immediately regretted that trying to navigate the weirdly confusing Windows. I was even going to be ok with using Edge instead of Chrome, until nothing worked, and the instructions made no sense. I can only imagine the amount of time and money and employees contributing to trying to get people to use Edge. Maybe they need more English majors on the team.

If youre talking about the start menu that Windows 10 gives you you can download a free program called "open shell" that will allow you to go to a windows classic start menu

Ive been using it for years and it works great

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 23, 2022, 07:03:13 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 23, 2022, 06:47:58 PM

Just switch to Chrome and let it be set as your default.

I work for an enormous company that has a very tight partnership with Microsoft, and yet our default browser on all corporate images is Chrome.

Ive got all three browsers up and running but Im a chrome guy and thats my default

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 23, 2022, 07:43:46 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 23, 2022, 06:47:58 PM

Just switch to Chrome and let it be set as your default.

I work for an enormous company that has a very tight partnership with Microsoft, and yet our default browser on all corporate images is Chrome.

I did. But I was willing to give Edge a chance! Let it be known.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2022, 07:53:43 PM

Chrome randomly crashes on me, for no apparent reason. Supposedly this was an issue with Chrome a year ago and was fixed, and I'm up to date on current patches, and it still keeps happening. 

Pisses me the eff off. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 23, 2022, 08:08:55 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2022, 07:53:43 PM

Chrome randomly crashes on me, for no apparent reason. Supposedly this was an issue with Chrome a year ago and was fixed, and I'm up to date on current patches, and it still keeps happening.

Pisses me the eff off.

do any other browsers edge firefox etc also crash if not you should reinstall chrome

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 23, 2022, 08:11:05 PM

also Ive found that many times when a browser crashes its not the browser but your internet

you might try restarting your modem

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 23, 2022, 10:34:29 PM

Chrome uses the ever loving hell out of your RAM, which is not ideal. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 23, 2022, 10:42:24 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 23, 2022, 10:34:29 PM

Chrome uses the ever loving hell out of your RAM, which is not ideal.

if its a matter of just not liking chrome then dont use it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 23, 2022, 10:52:41 PM

Full scale Russian invasion of Ukraine has begun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 23, 2022, 10:59:14 PM

My understanding from various sources is that this wont be a cake walk for the ruskies

Russia will probably prevail but Ukraine will fight like hell

this will get ugly with a lot of causalities 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 23, 2022, 11:10:22 PM

Ukraine can drag it out if they have the will to do so. Holding that much territory will be difficult and costly for the Russian invasion force.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 23, 2022, 11:18:23 PM

The aprox size of the Ukraine forces is right at 200,000 plus 200 fighter jets

per what I read on the internet

again this could get real ugly

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 23, 2022, 11:25:34 PM

Reports of explosions in Kiev already. Us announced more sanctions. G7 meeting tomorrow called. Ukraine called draft of reserves from 18-60yo earlier today. Gonna be a shit show. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 23, 2022, 11:28:59 PM

Also for those worried about Canadas emergency act turning into dictatorship lol
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-event-feb23-1.6361847

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 23, 2022, 11:36:43 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 23, 2022, 11:28:59 PM

Also for those worried about Canadas emergency act turning into dictatorship lol
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-event-feb23-1.6361847

it should be noted that he was forced to discontinue this act by the Canadian Senate he didnt do it of his own free will

The next election will be very interesting

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 12:29:44 AM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 23, 2022, 11:28:59 PM

Also for those worried about Canadas emergency act turning into dictatorship lol
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-event-feb23-1.6361847

damage has already been done, and certain aspects of the financial spying/freezing/regulating f***kery his government imposed is going to become permanent in Canada now- he's already abused the law and his office by invoking that act unconstitutionally and cracking down on peaceful protestors, which is precisely why the CCLA, the Canadian version of the ACLU is currently suing his government in court.

And even after the blockades had been ended, he pushed the House of Commons to extend the Emergency Act for 30 days- only for him to revoke the Emergency Act a day or two later. He revoked it as longhorn said because he was receiving major push back and pressure from the Senate.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on February 24, 2022, 12:32:36 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 23, 2022, 11:10:22 PM

Ukraine can drag it out if they have the will to do so. Holding that much territory will be difficult and costly for the Russian invasion force.

Ukraine's frontline forces will likely last only a few days before dissolving into what they can hope becomes an insurgency that has a chance to frustrate occupying Russian Forces without actually regaining grounds against occupying Forces.

In just the last two hours:

-Amphibious ships have landed at the port city of Odessa and Russian marines have stormed the city.

-Kyiv airport being evacuated, Russian Forces are targeting its airfields for seizures

-Russian troops are crossing the border towards Kharkiv

-Russian strikes have hit military installations across the country, including airfields and weapons depots in major cities

-Moscow stock-exchange suspends morning trading

-Power blackout in Kyiv

-Internal Ministry is advising Ukrainians to stay at home, wait for sirens, prepare a grab bag

It's already on, it's getting ugly, and oh, by the way, an Electronic Dance Music band is upset that Russia's invasion might interrupt their spring concert festivals:

https://twitter.com/TheChainsmokers/status/1496706749218246660

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 12:34:32 AM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 23, 2022, 11:25:34 PM

Reports of explosions in Kiev already. Us announced more sanctions. G7 meeting tomorrow called. Ukraine called draft of reserves from 18-60yo earlier today. Gonna be a shit show.

absolutely terrible. disappointed and sad it has come to this. they could've made a deal. i just hope US stays out of the fighting. no us troops over there and no more wars for America, please.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 24, 2022, 12:41:25 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/Sarah_Stierch/status/1496717641053921282

Belarus joining fight alongside Russia. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 01:04:29 AM

can't help but think Ukraine giving up it's nukes in '94, Bush II withdrawing the US from the ABM treaty in 2002 and then pushing for Ukraine to join NATO in 2008 (Bush II had pushed for full-fledged membership but Germany & France blocked that for fear of agitating Russia- but they said y'all will be members one day- but not now- y'all have an open ended invite with no real date or real plan in sight) lead us on a collision course to this.

Man was it a bad idea for Ukraine to give up 100% of it's nukes and man was Bush II a horrible President.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 05:26:16 AM

Why is the ABM treaty relevant to this?

I thought Putin would play a longer game here, this is so overt it's going to cost him (and us).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 05:30:28 AM

I'm surprised, and disappointed.  Could go to horrified.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 06:09:10 AM

The Egg Lobby is not going to like this:

Atlanta Breakfast Club Due to Open Third Location in Atlantic Station During Summer 2022 | What Now Atlanta (https://whatnowatlanta.com/atlanta-breakfast-club-due-to-open-third-location-in-atlantic-station-during-summer-2022/?fbclid=IwAR2JqumvuglacuDdSGWS9bY3A13NASLhgWLys70j1SHO0L2C3NiCW0eOef8)

Chicken and waffles is a thing around here, I didn't see that in Cincy, at all.  I've never ordered it here, it seems odd to me.  Our local Korean place offers it, I might try it as I'm working through their offerings (Mukja).

The Korean place is still in business, but not thriving, despite having much better food than the offerings nearby which are on the main street instead of a side street, which matters of course more than food quality.  Now I'm hungry.  Mukja is really good, I hope they can hang on and finally get recognized.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on February 24, 2022, 06:31:51 AM

Putin's invasion of Ukraine was totally predictable.  His aggression towards Ukraine was never about NATO.  The Biden Administration had over 6 months to plan for this and did little.  The strategy to sanction Russia after the fact is obviously a failure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 06:34:25 AM

I didn't predict it, beyond taking over the "contested regions" in Donbass area.  Taking over all of Ukraine by force strikes me as over reach of the worst kind.  I am  hoping somehow this is not a complete invasion/occupation, I fear that is wrong.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on February 24, 2022, 06:38:06 AM

Germany and Biden's sanctioning of the Nordstream 2 pipeline may have backfired.  Russia's motive for building the Nordstream 2 pipeline was so they would not need the pipelines through Ukraine and pay them $2 billion per year.  IF Russia occupies all of Ukraine they do not need the Nordstream 2 pipeline.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 24, 2022, 07:06:19 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 01:04:29 AM

can't help but think Ukraine giving up it's nukes in '94, Bush II withdrawing the US from the ABM treaty in 2002 and then pushing for Ukraine to join NATO in 2008 (Bush II had pushed for full-fledged membership but Germany & France blocked that for fear of agitating Russia- but they said y'all will be members one day- but not now- y'all have an open ended invite with no real date or real plan in sight) lead us on a collision course to this.

Man was it a bad idea for Ukraine to give up 100% of it's nukes and man was Bush II a horrible President.

So- you were pretty adamant this invasion wasn’t happening?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on February 24, 2022, 07:19:58 AM

My thought too. 

MDot, thought you were a Michigan man?  Most Michigan people I know don’t say y’all too much. 

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 24, 2022, 07:06:19 AM

So- you were pretty adamant this invasion wasn’t happening? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on February 24, 2022, 07:23:00 AM

I wonder if many of our US military commanders are itching to get in this thing. A real war, defined fronts, tanks, real troops. No more jungle or desert fighting of guerillas and spooks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 24, 2022, 07:25:20 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on February 24, 2022, 06:38:06 AM

 IF Russia occupies all of Ukraine they do not need the Nordstream 2 pipeline.

They'll need to sell the gas though,correct? Unfortunately this may encourage their old RED buddies the CCP to have designs on Taiwan,hopefully not

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 07:57:37 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 24, 2022, 07:06:19 AM

So- you were pretty adamant this invasion wasn’t happening? 

I didn't think we'd have a full scale operation, if that is what this is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 08:13:39 AM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 24, 2022, 12:41:25 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/Sarah_Stierch/status/1496717641053921282

Belarus joining fight alongside Russia.

Belarus IS Russia.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 08:16:22 AM

Maybe at best Putin wants to degrade Ukrainian defenses without an actual occupation, while he does occupy some breakaway areas as noted before.  (I don't mean that is good at all, but it could be better than a full occupation effort.)

All our sanctions and harsh language is not going to impact Putin that I can see.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on February 24, 2022, 08:29:45 AM

Short of NATO trying some sort of limited engagement of Russia in and over Ukraine its game over.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 08:35:30 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 08:16:22 AM

Maybe at best Putin wants to degrade Ukrainian defenses without an actual occupation, while he does occupy some breakaway areas as noted before.  (I don't mean that is good at all, but it could be better than a full occupation effort.)

All our sanctions and harsh language is not going to impact Putin that I can see.

Putin has been pretty clear that he wants to topple the existing government, and his military actions thus far are completely consistent with that.

He says he doesn't intend to occupy it.  But he's going to install a puppet government which will result in Ukraine effectively becoming a Russian satellite state once again, so if the Ukrainians truly want to govern themselves, it'll be a long, ongoing insurgency.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 08:40:48 AM

Sure, but how does he do that short of occupying Kiev (Kyiv)?  The current government will stick around unless physically exterminated or driven out of the country.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 08:41:27 AM

On the other hand, if Putin stops short of a full invasion, I don't see he has accomplished much beyond some slices of Ukraine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 08:42:04 AM

Ukraine was a real sore for Hitler in terms of partisan warfare.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 08:44:56 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 08:40:48 AM

Sure, but how does he do that short of occupying Kiev (Kyiv)?  The current government will stick around unless physically exterminated or driven out of the country.

Yes, he has to take Kiev and either murder or force the current government into exile.  That's his plan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 08:48:16 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 08:41:27 AM

On the other hand, if Putin stops short of a full invasion, I don't see he has accomplished much beyond some slices of Ukraine.

He doesn't need to occupy all of Ukraine, he just needs to topple the government and replace it with a Russian puppet government.  This is his goal.

He'd seize military control of the critical infrastructure and critical natural resources, and force the Ukrainians to fight an insurgent war on their own home soil.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 09:03:56 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/QWCPOS4.jpg)

Pure numbers say little about qualitative advantages of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 09:11:36 AM

Well I suppose it's a good thing Putin is just concerned over peace-keeping, then. Everything will be fine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 09:14:59 AM

Russian tanks roll past CNN reporter as they appear to head towards Ukraine (https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/02/24/russia-ukraine-invasion-rockets-tanks-pleitgen-newday-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/russia-ukraine-military-conflict/)

Some pretty amazing video, I'm surprised Russia allowed this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 24, 2022, 09:19:47 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 08:16:22 AM

Maybe at best Putin wants to degrade Ukrainian defenses without an actual occupation, while he does occupy some breakaway areas as noted before.  (I don't mean that is good at all, but it could be better than a full occupation effort.)

All our sanctions and harsh language is not going to impact Putin that I can see.

(https://i.imgur.com/XRuB0np.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 09:27:45 AM

i sincerely hope the sanctions will have serious effects.  I hope that the US, and all other nations of the world, enact them to the fullest extent that we can.

Putin has been building up his reserves in other national currencies and crypto-currencies over the past several years in order to weather the coming storm.  But if the nations of the world can hit the oligarchs hard where it counts, that could fracture the Russian government.  That's probably the world's best and only hope at ending the current Russian aggression.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 24, 2022, 09:32:05 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 09:27:45 AM

i sincerely hope the sanctions will have serious effects.  I hope that the US, and all other nations of the world, enact them to the fullest extent that we can.

Putin has been building up his reserves in other national currencies and crypto-currencies over the past several years in order to weather the coming storm.  But if the nations of the world can hit the oligarchs hard where it counts, that could fracture the Russian government.  That's probably the world's best and only hope at ending the current Russian aggression.

Oh, I think they will. They will hurt us too. Badly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 09:33:33 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 24, 2022, 09:32:05 AM

Oh, I think they will. They will hurt us too. Badly.

It's a necessary step.  We need to extricate ourselves economically from Russia, just as we need to extricate ourselves from China.  Both will be costly but both are critical for our future national security.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 24, 2022, 09:34:47 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 09:33:33 AM

It's a necessary step.  We need to extricate ourselves economically from Russia, just as we need to extricate ourselves from China.  Both are critical for our future national security.

Absolutely this. It's gonna be really hard to get away from China though. Their corruption is probably only rivaled by our own corruption.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 09:39:38 AM

Sanctions will hurt your average Russian no doubt, but the elite?  Probably not significantly, at least not short term.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 09:44:35 AM

We're so intricately linked with China it'll be a mess.  But there are steps we can take to begin the process.

The first step was for American manufacturing companies to see and understand how much of their own economic wellbeing is dependent on a benevolent and fully operational China.  Ironically, the pandemic has actually helped American companies understand just what could happen to them, if China decided they no longer wanted to play ball.  I won't speak in specifics but I'm closely tied to decisions made by large American technology companies and the global risk analyses have begun to focus on this, almost exclusively.  Plans are in motion to change it.

But it takes time.  A lot of time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 09:56:00 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 05:26:16 AM

Why is the ABM treaty relevant to this?

I thought Putin would play a longer game here, this is so overt it's going to cost him (and us).

https://carnegieendowment.org/2021/12/13/u.s.-exit-from-anti-ballistic-missile-treaty-has-fueled-new-arms-race-pub-85977

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 10:06:06 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on February 24, 2022, 06:31:51 AM

Putin's invasion of Ukraine was totally predictable.  His aggression towards Ukraine was never about NATO.  The Biden Administration had over 6 months to plan for this and did little.  The strategy to sanction Russia after the fact is obviously a failure.

underlined - disagree. every action will have a reaction. things do not just happen in a vacuum. withdrawing from ABM treaty in 2002, pushing for Ukraine to join NATO in 2008, and the US backing a coup of a neutral if not Russia friendly democratically elected gov't in Ukraine in 2014 played a part in leading to where we are right now. If ABM treaty is still in place, Ukraine never gets the open ended invite in 2008, and US doesn't help back and engineer that coup in 2014- none of this is likely happening right now.

bolded - kinda hard to put sanctions on Russia just for a military build-up in their own country. sanctions are an act of economic war and can cripple and devastate an entire country and kill thousands. you can't just sanction a country for moving forces within their own territory. they have to give you reason first- and they just gave the US and the world plenty of reason now for hardcore sanctions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 10:08:45 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 09:03:56 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/QWCPOS4.jpg)

Pure numbers say little about qualitative advantages of course.

Wow. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 10:14:18 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 09:33:33 AM

It's a necessary step.  We need to extricate ourselves economically from Russia, just as we need to extricate ourselves from China.  Both will be costly but both are critical for our future national security.

we don't do much trade with Russia as is, should be easy to dump them. definitely agree on China, but man that one is going to be hard- we are so interlinked with them it's crazy. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 10:20:00 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 09:39:38 AM

Sanctions will hurt your average Russian no doubt, but the elite?  Probably not significantly, at least not short term.

agree. really tough sanctions tend to squash the average/working class and drive them closer into the dictators hands because he can say- it's that foreign evil enemy that is doing this to you- I'm trying to protect you.

Agree, the elite of Russia won't feel it. They've got money hidden all over the world and many of them love to hang out/live in London, New York, Paris, Monaco, Miami - to make them feel it you'd have to seize all their high priced apartments, condos, and mansions in those cities and deport them back to Russia- that's if they haven't bought themselves citizenship in UK, US, France, Monaco already.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 10:25:16 AM

Quote from: Gigem on February 24, 2022, 07:23:00 AM

I wonder if many of our US military commanders are itching to get in this thing. A real war, defined fronts, tanks, real troops. No more jungle or desert fighting of guerillas and spooks.

of course they are lol. those guys are always itching for more war.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 10:26:15 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 09:27:45 AM

i sincerely hope the sanctions will have serious effects.  I hope that the US, and all other nations of the world, enact them to the fullest extent that we can.

Putin has been building up his reserves in other national currencies and crypto-currencies over the past several years in order to weather the coming storm.  But if the nations of the world can hit the oligarchs hard where it counts, that could fracture the Russian government.  That's probably the world's best and only hope at ending the current Russian aggression.

i hope so too, but sanctions often have the opposite effect we want- they tend to drive the public right into the dictators hands. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 10:30:03 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on February 24, 2022, 06:38:06 AM

Germany and Biden's sanctioning of the Nordstream 2 pipeline may have backfired. Russia's motive for building the Nordstream 2 pipeline was so they would not need the pipelines through Ukraine and pay them $2 billion per year.  IF Russia occupies all of Ukraine they do not need the Nordstream 2 pipeline.

The sanctions were a day late and a dollar short.  Time to sanction and block it was before it was built. That pipeline is built and was just awaiting German approval to go operational.

This part makes no sense. They built the pipeline to sell natural gas to their biggest customer- Germany and other Western European countries. If they occupy all of Ukraine they'll never get the approval to go operational and won't be able to sell gas to their biggest customers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 24, 2022, 10:59:51 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 10:20:00 AM

agree. really tough sanctions tend to squash the average/working class and drive them closer into the dictators hands because he can say- it's that foreign evil enemy that is doing this to you- I'm trying to protect you.

Agree, the elite of Russia won't feel it. They've got money hidden all over the world and many of them love to hang out/live in London, New York, Paris, Monaco, Miami - to make them feel it you'd have to seize all their high priced apartments, condos, and mansions in those cities and deport them back to Russia- that's if they haven't bought themselves citizenship in UK, US, France, Monaco already.

the elites are feeling it from a dramatic drop in wealth standpoint. their stock market dropped 40% today so far. but that's not going to hit them the same way it'll hit normal people.

you're absolutely right about foreign asset seizure. one of the reasons putin moving his super yacht was such a big deal and bad signal last week. need to look at more than just real property, though. business assets, sports franchises, foreign stocks... there's several avenues they need to go down.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 11:02:50 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 10:25:16 AM

of course they are lol. those guys are always itching for more war.

I've known some Marine officers and none were remotely itching to go to war.  They hated it.  I've spoken briefly with a few generals but not enough to get their thoughts, I suspect they don't want war either.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 11:03:54 AM

The Soviet Union elites made out pretty well with almost no trade with the West and almost no travel to the West.  Dachas and what not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 11:04:36 AM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 24, 2022, 10:59:51 AM

the elites are feeling it from a dramatic drop in wealth standpoint. their stock market dropped 40% today so far. but that's not going to hit them the same way it'll hit normal people.

Yeah and today's stock market close is the highest they're going to see for months or years.  It only goes down from here.

Quote

you're absolutely right about foreign asset seizure. one of the reasons putin moving his super yacht was such a big deal and bad signal last week. need to look at more than just real property, though. business assets, sports franchises, foreign stocks... there's several avenues they need to go down.

I know of a certain futbol club that is currently near the top of the EPL table that would be a ripe target.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 24, 2022, 11:05:49 AM

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10546799/More-150-senior-Russian-officials-sign-open-letter-condemning-Putins-invasion-Ukraine.html?ito=rss-flipboard

this feels significant. it's a good thing, but also feel it could go either way. probably not safe for those people who signed this, but maybe it'll embolden others to openly oppose. and hopefully some of them are ones to challenge putin's stranglehold on russian political power.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 24, 2022, 11:24:08 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 11:04:36 AM

Yeah and today's stock market close is the highest they're going to see for months or years.  It only goes down from here.



I know of a certain futbol club that is currently near the top of the EPL table that would be a ripe target.

chelsea has direct russian owner, ambromovich. arsenal (former) and everton (current) have both had part russian owners recently, though i don't know how much. bournemouth in the championship is also directly owned by russian. outside of england, as monaco, vitesse, and cercle brugge all have russian owners at least in part. other clubs, many in germany like shalke, have sponsorship deals with russian companies. shalke is gazprom, the russian state owned gas company.

brooklyn nets has ties to russian as well, though he sold controlling share couple years ago. no idea if he still owns any.

i'm sure there are others, those are just easy ones to google.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 24, 2022, 11:56:25 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 08:35:30 AM

Putin has been pretty clear that he wants to topple the existing government, and his military actions thus far are completely consistent with that.

He says he doesn't intend to occupy it.  But he's going to install a puppet government which will result in Ukraine effectively becoming a Russian satellite state once again, so if the Ukrainians truly want to govern themselves, it'll be a long, ongoing insurgency.

this seems to be pentagon's assessment as well.

https://twitter.com/Joyce_Karam/status/1496888366448594944 (https://twitter.com/Joyce_Karam/status/1496888366448594944)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 11:58:51 AM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 24, 2022, 11:05:49 AM

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10546799/More-150-senior-Russian-officials-sign-open-letter-condemning-Putins-invasion-Ukraine.html?ito=rss-flipboard

this feels significant. it's a good thing, but also feel it could go either way. probably not safe for those people who signed this, but maybe it'll embolden others to openly oppose. and hopefully some of them are ones to challenge putin's stranglehold on russian political power.

that's a great sign. good for them for standing up for what's right and against a dictator.

I think it'll be pretty hard for Putin to murder 150 top ranking Russian officials without any kind of pushback. Cracking down on oligarchs he doesn't like or murdering one political opponent or dissident here or there is one thing- but taking out 150 top state officials at once- he probably won't be able to do that.

Hopefully his war has the opposite effect he intends and damages his power from within. Hopefully that 150 turns into 300 and on and on.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 12:00:35 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 24, 2022, 11:56:25 AM

this seems to be pentagon's assessment as well.

https://twitter.com/Joyce_Karam/status/1496888366448594944 (https://twitter.com/Joyce_Karam/status/1496888366448594944)

Sigh.  Heady stuff.  A lot of innocent folks are going to die. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 24, 2022, 12:02:49 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 12:00:35 PM

Sigh.  Heady stuff.  A lot of innocent folks are going to die.

This

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 24, 2022, 12:16:04 PM

Tone deaf much?

John Kerry fears Russia-Ukraine war will distract from climate change | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/john-kerry-russia-ukraine-war-climate-change)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on February 24, 2022, 12:19:02 PM

Lest you forget Climate Change is the greatest threat to the US.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 12:27:21 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 24, 2022, 12:16:04 PM

Tone deaf much?

John Kerry fears Russia-Ukraine war will distract from climate change | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/john-kerry-russia-ukraine-war-climate-change)

I can't find an adequate "shaking my damn head" emoji.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 24, 2022, 12:34:46 PM

Does that moron still have influence? God help us.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 24, 2022, 12:37:48 PM

https://twitter.com/idreesali114/status/1496899522886352899?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

this is the current power plant. the nuclear site and waste is still unclear. according to other tweets, anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 24, 2022, 12:53:00 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 24, 2022, 12:16:04 PM

Tone deaf much?

John Kerry fears Russia-Ukraine war will distract from climate change | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/john-kerry-russia-ukraine-war-climate-change)

This is an interesting piece of content milling. You grab the interview, take a wonky part, make it a headline. The lead quote is literally: 

"I'm concerned about Ukraine because of the people of Ukraine and because of the principles that are at risk, in terms of international law and trying to change boundaries of international law by force," Kerry, the U.S. special presidential envoy for climate, said in an interview on BBC Arabic, MEMRI reported Wednesday. "I thought we lived in a world that had said no to that kind of activity. And I hope diplomacy will win."

The messaging after, the guy whose job is about climate focusing on climate, is not particularly well timed, but it also doesn't matter. In just about 99.999999 percent of occasions, you, me, and everyone else doesn't care what the "climate czar" thinks. We lament "the media" ginning up outrage, and then are like "this thing 'the media' has ginned up outrages me." It's only a story to use because a partisan outlet slapped a headline on it. 

On the plus side, if that's the bar for angst, we got a whopper of tone deafness from a far more important source.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 24, 2022, 12:53:44 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 24, 2022, 12:34:46 PM

Does that moron still have influence? God help us.

Not really. But when a media outlet pretends he does, it's good for web traffic. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 24, 2022, 01:03:43 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 12:27:21 PM

I can't find an adequate "shaking my damn head" emoji.

He was hawking his candidacy in like '04-'05 and was heaping praise on Buckeyes Football. He crossed the state line using the exact same line hawking Buckeyes football forgetting he was in Michigan.Then he was like err,uh,um....."how bout them Wolverines" One almost cringed watching it - IDIOT

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 24, 2022, 01:13:09 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 24, 2022, 12:53:44 PM

Not really. But when a media outlet pretends he does, it's good for web traffic.

He'll get on his private jet and go check out all the climate damage Russia is doing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 01:23:11 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 12:00:35 PM

Sigh.  Heady stuff.  A lot of innocent folks are going to die.

yeah, it's beyond terrible. war is always an act of aggression unless done in self-defense. Russia has no justification for this. None. 

US has played a role in relations completely deteriorating with Russia and events leading to this point however. Things do not just happen in a vacuum. There is no excusing Putin's actions- which are aggressive, illegal, and an affront to international law and human right. But what kinda pisses me off is the arrogance of a DC elite who for the last 25 years thought they could try to pick Ukraine off from Russia's sphere of influence- and pull them into the US/EU/NATO orbit and into our sphere of influence- and it never registered to them that- hey Russia might not like that and they might do something about that. And that something was never going to be us paying any sort of real price- it'd be the Ukrainian people paying the price. It was just pure arrogance on the part of a few previous US administrations and a foreign policy elite who think what we can do whatever we want around the world whenever we want. 

Unless we were absolutely willing to go to go to war with Russia over Ukraine- there was no reason to do some of the things we've done in Ukraine from 1992 to 2014. It's like we've pumped Ukraine's heads up since 2014 and made them believe we'd actually have their backs and go to war for them and protect them- when in reality- we do not really have their backs and won't go to war for them. It's like they were getting along with the bully they sat to next to in class OK and then we pumped their heads up saying- hey stand up to that jerkoff- follow us now F him- when we don't go to the same school and live 20 towns away- then when they are feeling themselves because of us and stand up to the bully and the bully starts f**king with them and then starts whooping their ass- we don't really do anything to help. We should have just stayed the f out of the affairs of Ukraine completely.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 01:28:17 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 24, 2022, 01:13:09 PM

He'll get on his private jet and go check out all the climate damage Russia is doing.

ha! have to love these sort of hypocritical jerkoffs.

https://nypost.com/2021/08/11/john-kerrys-jet-emitted-estimated-30-times-more-carbon-in-2021-than-average-vehicle/

Leonardo DiCaprio is another one. Even just made a shitty movie about climate change on Netflix. By the way, I have still yet to see a great movie Netflix has made. They just have unlimited money to throw at garbage apparently. Anywhoo, that's another jerkoff who cries and moans and bitches about climate change and then goes and travels on private jets all over the world and charters super yachts filled with models to party and cruise all over the world. It's like....shut the f**k up unless you practice what you preach you god damn hypocrite. Nothing but virtual signaling and trying to make the world think you're such a good person because you care so much about climate change.

Loved that video of that guy who ripped everyone at Davos at the World Economic Forum about how all those billionaire assholes cry about climate change and fixing the world but then they all fly in on 1,600 private jets for every WEF conference.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 01:32:49 PM

It's not a movie but Stranger Things on Netflix is outstanding television.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 01:37:05 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 01:32:49 PM

It's not a movie but Stranger Things on Netflix is outstanding television.

That's a great one. I really like The Last Kingdom as well. Good show. That was a BBC/Netflix collaboration. Their Witcher show is pretty good too. First season was OK, but I felt like it got really good in the second season. Netflix has some really good shows. 

That Tinder Swindler documentary they just made was fantastic. That guy is a total piece of shit but my god what a genius.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on February 24, 2022, 01:43:04 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 09:27:45 AM

i sincerely hope the sanctions will have serious effects.  I hope that the US, and all other nations of the world, enact them to the fullest extent that we can.

At this point more sanctions are like grounding your kid who is already grounded. Putin's thug empire has lived with sanctions for two decades and has already priced in their impact. And we're at the point where further sanctions ends up hurting NATO nations as well, which is why Germany and Italy are voicing their intent to veto sanctions to remove Russia from the SWIFT financing system.

The sanctions ship has LONG sailed.

This might be the best bet to a quick ending to violent Russian occupation:

https://twitter.com/RichardEngel/status/1496904933014216711

Hopefully by Monday Russia's invasion is concluding their big show of force (with limited civilian casualties, one can pray) all to put Ukraine in no position to negotiate when it comes to Putin demanding an official neutral status from Ukraine and no furthering of a potential NATO membership from Ukraine (as they began in November 2020 when Ukraine joined NATO's partnership program), all with the Russian goal of ensuring NO western weapons positioned within Ukrainian borders.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 02:04:44 PM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on February 24, 2022, 01:43:04 PM

At this point more sanctions are like grounding your kid who is already grounded. Putin's thug empire has lived with sanctions for two decades and has already priced in their impact. And we're at the point where further sanctions ends up hurting NATO nations as well, which is why Germany and Italy are voicing their intent to veto sanctions to remove Russia from the SWIFT financing system.

The sanctions ship has LONG sailed.

This might be the best bet to a quick ending to violent Russian occupation:

https://twitter.com/RichardEngel/status/1496904933014216711

Hopefully by Monday Russia's invasion is concluding their big show of force (with limited civilian casualties, one can pray) all to put Ukraine in no position to negotiate when it comes to Putin demanding an official neutral status from Ukraine and no furthering of a potential NATO membership from Ukraine (as they began in November 2020 when Ukraine joined NATO's partnership program), all with the Russian goal of ensuring NO western weapons positioned within Ukrainian borders.

Ukraine needs to take that deal ASAP. For their own sake and the entire worlds sake. No more people should die. This should not mushroom into a greater conflict that involves other countries which would only lead to more destruction and death.

Make it official. Our official policy is one of neutrality, we're not joining NATO and no NATO weapons will ever be stationed in our borders.

Zero people had to die. The US could've brokered this very deal years ago and should have never gotten so deeply involved in the internal affairs of a foreign country that means zilch to us by helping support the overthrow of Yanukovych and plot the replacement government in 2014.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 02:16:14 PM

The health, safety and security of our guests, crew and communities we visit is our top priority. Due to the escalated situation between Russia and Ukraine we have made the decision to alter itineraries and remove calls to St. Petersburg, Russia from our sailings for the remainder of the year. Our team is diligently working to confirm replacement ports and will advise all impacted guests and travel advisors as soon as possible. We share your disappointment and sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused, but also hope you can understand the necessity of this action.

As expected.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 02:21:31 PM

Yeah all entertainment-related events and ventures to Russia are being canceled. 

UEFA Champions League canceled the tournament final in St. Petersburg, Formula 1 canceled the race to be held in Sochi, cruise ports of call canceled and eliminated.  Safety reasons alone would justify it, even if political sentiment hadn't shifted dramatically against them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 02:25:32 PM

Cancel everything, shut them down, it could take some time to replace the NG Germany needs.  Isolate them as much as possible.

I really don't expect some of the Euro countries to respond aggressively enough, they will pretend and do some minor stuff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 02:28:56 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 02:25:32 PM

Cancel everything, shut them down, it could take some time to replace the NG Germany needs.  Isolate them as much as possible.

I really don't expect some of the Euro countries to respond aggressively enough, they will pretend and do some minor stuff.

They're already bickering about proposed sanctions being too strict, wanting to carve out and omit from sanctions various special interests like diamonds and other luxury items.  It's disheartening.  

Similar is happening here in the US, of course. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 02:29:03 PM

I think the best course of action would be to make the Russian oligarchs and their minions really feel it. They all have lavish properties, exotic cars, yachts, and planes in rich US/Western European cities. Seize it all. Deport them all. The big chunk that have bought citizenship in these countries- revoke their citizenship and deport them back. I think the only shot you have of really hurting the Putin regime is making life a bitch for those people. If the rich and powerful are really feeling it then they might all gang up and conspire against him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 02:32:38 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 02:28:56 PM

They're already bickering about proposed sanctions being too strict, wanting to carve out and omit from sanctions various special interests like diamonds and other luxury items. It's disheartening. 

Similar is happening here in the US, of course.

isn't it always about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ though? 

The Russian wealthy buys a shit ton of luxury goods made in Europe (Gucci, Louis Vuitton, Fendi, etc.) and a shit ton luxury cars (Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, Audi) made in Europe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 24, 2022, 02:41:35 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 02:29:03 PM

I think the best course of action would be to make the Russian oligarchs and their minions really feel it. They all have lavish properties, exotic cars, yachts, and planes in rich US/Western European cities. Seize it all. Deport them all. The big chunk that have bought citizenship in these countries- revoke their citizenship and deport them back. I think the only shot you have of really hurting the Putin regime is making life a bitch for those people. If the rich and powerful are really feeling it then they might all gang up and conspire against him.

So, nuke St. Barts then?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 02:54:47 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 02:32:38 PM

isn't it always about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ though?

The Russian wealthy buys a shit ton of luxury goods made in Europe (Gucci, Louis Vuitton, Fendi, etc.) and a shit ton luxury cars (Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, Audi) made in Europe.

Well yeah.  Of course.  

And don't forget all of the Adidas track suits.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 02:57:58 PM

Quote

"As we respond, my administration is using ... every tool at [our] disposal to protect American families and businesses from rising prices at the gas pump. We're taking active steps to bring down the cost, and American oil and gas companies should not — should not — exploit this moment to hike their respect prices to raise profits," he said.

Biden said officials are monitoring energy supplies for disruptions. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 24, 2022, 03:02:11 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 02:57:58 PM

Biden said officials are monitoring energy supplies for disruptions.

Crap. Hopefully I can get to Costco this afternoon before prices spike $0.30/gal on the speculation that prices might spike. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 03:16:09 PM

Crude spiked to $100 earlier but have dropped back nearly to where it was.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 24, 2022, 03:33:25 PM

I had no idea that Russia could influence the price of oil like they say

What percentage of the worlds oil comes from Russia?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 03:45:23 PM

1	United States (https://www.worldometers.info/oil/us-oil/#oil-production)	14,837,639,510
2	Saudi Arabia (https://www.worldometers.info/oil/saudi-arabia-oil/#oil-production)	12,402,761,040
3	Russia (https://www.worldometers.info/oil/russia-oil/#oil-production)	11,262,746,200
4	China (https://www.worldometers.info/oil/china-oil/#oil-production)	4,905,070,874
5	Canada (https://www.worldometers.info/oil/canada-oil/#oil-production)	4,596,724,820
6	Iraq (https://www.worldometers.info/oil/iraq-oil/#oil-production)	4,443,457,393
7	Iran (https://www.worldometers.info/oil/iran-oil/#oil-production)	4,376,194,355
8	United Arab Emirates (https://www.worldometers.info/oil/united-arab-emirates-oil/#oil-production)	3,772,788,273
9	Brazil (https://www.worldometers.info/oil/brazil-oil/#oil-production)	3,242,957,836
10	Kuwait (https://www.worldometers.info/oil/kuwait-oil/#oil-production)	2,990,544,137
11	Mexico (https://www.worldometers.info/oil/mexico-oil/#oil-production)	2,484,354,880
12	Venezuela (https://www.worldometers.info/oil/venezuela-oil/#oil-production)	2,355,423,552

This is a bit dated but close enough.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 24, 2022, 03:58:53 PM

what does the chart show oil produced reserves ?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 24, 2022, 03:59:54 PM

must be produced

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 24, 2022, 04:01:05 PM

ok just how does the Ukraine conflict take oil out of the market

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 04:13:15 PM

Countries will cut back on buying Russian oil, leaving a gap in global supply.  Other countries will of course step in (China) and buy russian oil at a discount.

It's somewhat fungible.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 04:17:05 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 24, 2022, 04:01:05 PM

ok just how does the Ukraine conflict take oil out of the market

every major conflict/war disrupts markets (thanks globalization!) and causes oil prices to spike. hell even minor ones have caused them to spike. people get scared and crazy things can happen in crazy and unpredictable times and markets act in weird and crazy ways during war times.

Russia was also the worlds 2nd largest oil producer in 2020 (behind the US and just ahead of Saudi Arabia). Russia is also the worlds 2nd largest oil exporter behind only Saudi Arabia. Russia exports 11% of all the oil exported in the world. It's a pretty big gap though between number #1 and #2 as the Saudi's exported around $40+ billion more of oil than Russia in 2020. And well, if strict sanctions are going to be imposed on Russia by the US/EU and most of it's allies- then the 2nd largest exporter of oil in the world might not be able to export it's oil to all of these countries. Not sure what the sanctions will be- but if they sanction Russian oil exports- you bet your ass prices will go way up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production

https://www.worldstopexports.com/worlds-top-oil-exports-country/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 04:19:20 PM

At the moment, WTI is up less than one percent after being up 8% earlier today.  Brent in almost unchanged.

WTI is higher than Brent right now, a bit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 04:25:38 PM

Russia is the #2 foreign oil supplier to the United States behind Canada shockingly. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-04/russia-captures-no-2-rank-among-foreign-oil-suppliers-to-u-s

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 04:28:43 PM

The US Energy Information Administration (EIA) has published data (https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm) for the amount of oil that the US imports. In the month of November 2021, which is the last data set available, the US imported 254,162,000 barrels of oil. It consumes a stunning 17.2 million barrels per day, much more than the just over 3 million of Russia.

The vast majority is from Canada, 136,090,000, making up over 50 percent of all imports. From Russia, 17,855,000 barrels were imported, with November's imports being the lowest value of the year, but still 7 percent of all imports. With sanctions looming, there is a large liklihood that these barrels will stop arriving in the US.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 04:29:21 PM

EU and China import oil like a couple of gas guzzling whores. EU is at over 14 million barrels per day and China is at over 10.8 million.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 24, 2022, 04:35:13 PM

ok I'll ask it in a different way

If Russia is still selling oil to the world even if its different buyers the world supply of oil has not changed

so how does this affect the price

the only way price would be affected is if theres less oil on the market

if Russia continues to supply oil to the market the over all supply will remain unchanged so why is price affected

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 04:41:20 PM

Oil prices spiked at market open today and then settled back near where they started.  If say China soaks up Russian oil Europe and the US don't buy, there would be minimal impacts on supply, some supply chain challenges at first.  Right now there is no oil price spike.

The stock market made a remarkable recovery from earlier.

S&P 500 closes 1.5% higher after sharp reversal, as traders shake off Russia's invasion of Ukraine (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/23/stock-futures-are-little-changed-after-dow-sinks-to-its-lowest-level-of-the-year-amid-ukraine-crisis.html)

The S&P 500 rose 1.5% to 4,288.70 after dropping more than 2.6% earlier in the session. The Dow Jones Industrial Average added 92.07 points to 33,223.83, erasing an 859-point decline. The Nasdaq Composite ended the session 3.3% higher at 13,473.59, after being down nearly 3.5% at one point in the session.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 24, 2022, 04:46:07 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 04:41:20 PM

Oil prices spiked at market open today and then settled back near where they started.  If say China soaks up Russian oil Europe and the US don't buy, there would be minimal impacts on supply, some supply chain challenges at first.  Right now there is no oil price spike.

If china buys more oil from Russia that probably means  they will buy less from other sellers and the world supply would not really be affected

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 24, 2022, 04:46:39 PM

ukraine giving more fight than originally thought. still a very very likely losing effort on their part, but they aren't being rolled over. at least not yet.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russia-ukraine-warning-update-initial-russian-offensive-campaign-assessment

the link above is from the institute of the study of war. i know next to nothing about that organization except what i just googled. it's an american based think-tank to study military conflict and foreign affairs. it's taken some criticisms for favoring "aggressive foreign policy." i have no idea if that criticism is accurate or not.

but it does have some impressive people on it's board. a couple us generals, for un ambassador, for congressmen, for chief of staff to the vp, among others.

key takeaways from article:

• Ukrainian forces are successfully slowing Russian offensives on all axes of advance other than a Russian breakout from the Crimean Peninsula. Russian failure to ground the Ukrainian air force or cripple Ukrainian command and control is likely enabling these initial Ukrainian successes.
• Ukrainian forces are contesting the Hostomel military airport, 20 km northwest of Kyiv, as of 9:30 pm local time.[3] Russian VDV (Airborne) troops landed at Hostomel and have also failed to capture the Boryspil airport southeast of Kyiv. Ukraine’s contestation of the airport deprives Russian forces of any location to airlift forces onto Kyiv’s western flank overnight.
• Russian forces are rapidly advancing north from Crimea, securing Kherson city. Their deepest penetration to date is about 60 kilometers.
• Russian forces are advancing on Kyiv from Belarus on both sides of the Dnipro River. Russian forces secured the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone (on the west bank) at 7:30 pm local time, but Ukrainian forces have slowed Russian advances east of the Dnipro at Chernihiv.
• Russian forces likely seek to cut off Ukrainian troops on the line of contact in Donbas using an envelopment behind the Ukrainian front lines through Luhansk Oblast. Russian frontal assaults have taken little territory in Donetsk and Luhansk at this time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 04:47:33 PM

Exactly, except slightly as shipping adjusts to the new supply chains.

We use an incredible amount of petroleum daily, globally.  One barrel is 44 gallons of crude.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 04:51:17 PM

• ISW cannot confirm reports of any Russian amphibious landings in Odesa or Mariupol. Initial reports of such landings appear to be incorrect. Russia may wait until forces from Crimea have secured crossings over the Dnipro River before attempting to seize Odesa by air and sea.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 04:51:57 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 24, 2022, 04:35:13 PM

ok I'll ask it in a different way

If Russia is still selling oil to the world even if its different buyers the world supply of oil has not changed

so how does this affect the price

the only way price would be affected is if theres less oil on the market

if Russia continues to supply oil to the market the over all supply will remain unchanged so why is price affected

I guess it's all hypothetical at the moment because not sure they'll sanction Russian oil. If there are sanctions though, EU/UK/Japan/South Korea buys way too much of Russia's oil for there not to be a huge affect if it's taken off the table and these countries cannot purchase it. Not sure China or other countries will be able to make up the difference even if buying at a discount.

It would limit the total supply of oil in the world market. Russia is the worlds 2nd largest producer of oil and 2nd largest exporter of oil. They are a major player in the oil trade.

You could probably have the Saudis crank up production to level 20 and increase supply- but they won't- Biden has started a beef with the leader of that country and the guy hates Biden's f***king guts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 24, 2022, 04:56:39 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 04:51:57 PM

You could probably have the Saudis crank up production to level 20 and increase supply- but they won't- Biden has started a beef with the leader of that country and the guy hates Biden's f***king guts.

we need to make em a deal they cant refuse

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 24, 2022, 04:58:36 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFRczUhjhU4

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 05:00:40 PM

EU imports nearly 30% of their oil from Russia. Can China really take a bulk of that 30% - even at a discount? The Netherlands, Germany, Poland, Italy, Finland, and Slovakia buy a ton of their oil from Russia.

And if Russia doesn't have as many buyers buying as much oil, they'll have to decrease production which would also decrease world supply. And if they have to keep selling at massive discounts- it could become too expensive for them to keep producing the oil.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 24, 2022, 05:04:32 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 05:00:40 PM

EU imports nearly 30% of their oil from Russia. Can China really take a bulk of that 30% - even at a discount? The Netherlands, Germany, Poland, Italy, Finland, and Slovakia buy a ton of their oil from Russia.

And if Russia doesn't have as many buyers buying as much oil, they'll have to decrease production which would also decrease world supply. And if they have to keep selling at massive discounts- it could become too expensive for them to keep producing the oil.

if it comes to that and the price of oil increases then other countries namely Saudi Arabia would probably fill the void unless of course they stop liking money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 05:18:36 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 24, 2022, 05:04:32 PM

if it comes to that and the price of oil increases then other countries namely Saudi Arabia would probably fill the void unless of course they stop liking money

US/EU and it's allies probably won't sanction Russian oil imo. EU needs that oil and last thing Biden needs is higher energy prices leading to more inflation. He's already getting his ass burned up domestically because of this. He doesn't need nor want more of it. 

Oil is a finite resource- can't just produce it unendingly and forever. And in many cases it's expensive to produce. Not exactly like there are a lot of major high volume producers in the world and then there are even fewer major high volume low cost producers. Not like Russia can just be shut out and then someone else just jumps up to take their place. Have to have the reserves and the ability to produce- which not many countries do. Saudi's win there no matter what, they have the 2nd most proven oil reserves in the world and their production costs are the lowest in the world. They just print money when cost of oil is higher because their cost of production is so low. Venezuela has a little bit more proven oil reserves than the Saudi's, but Venezuelans cost to produce that oil is among the highest in the world. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 24, 2022, 05:29:58 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 24, 2022, 04:35:13 PM

ok I'll ask it in a different way

If Russia is still selling oil to the world even if its different buyers the world supply of oil has not changed

so how does this affect the price

the only way price would be affected is if theres less oil on the market

if Russia continues to supply oil to the market the over all supply will remain unchanged so why is price affected

Remember, when news sources start quoting "oil prices", they're not quoting the price of oil today... They're quoting the price of futures contracts for delivery of future oil. 

It doesn't require scarcity for the price of a futures contract to go up--it can simply require the fear of future scarcity. 

If I'm a Gulf Coast refinery trying to secure my Apr '22 supply of oil, and I'm afraid that the US will put sanctions on Russian oil making it illegal for me to acquire it, it means that all other domestic refiners will be stuck bidding on oil NOT from Russia--which might lead to those prices being bid up to secure supply. 

As a refiner, you could wait and hope that sanctions aren't introduced, and then take advantage of price drops on Russian oil (which nobody thought they could buy so they already secured other sources). Or perhaps that OPEC will boost production and new oil delivery contracts will show up and be cheaper than today's price for April delivery. But if you make the wrong decision you might not get oil at all, and then you're in trouble. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 24, 2022, 09:14:52 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1497005877555077124?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497005877555077124%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Flive-news%2Frussia-ukraine-us-allies-sanctions

My kind of soldier.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 24, 2022, 10:02:46 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/274787109_5345647532134837_4143639901580369037_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p180x540&_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=C038n0pBBOsAX_FoaCt&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9NektPuX8iGYnPE4_uoFMwKSLcW_MOZx789Un5hEAucQ&oe=621C471F)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 24, 2022, 10:17:02 PM

Dumbest post....ever?


A - no amount of armed citizens is going to hold off a 21st-century foreign power from taking over
B - the argument for armed citizens is to defend against it's own tyrannical government

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 24, 2022, 10:25:32 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 08:35:30 AM

Putin has been pretty clear that he wants to topple the existing government, and his military actions thus far are completely consistent with that.

He says he doesn't intend to occupy it.  But he's going to install a puppet government which will result in Ukraine effectively becoming a Russian satellite state once again, so if the Ukrainians truly want to govern themselves, it'll be a long, ongoing insurgency.

Ed Zachery

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 24, 2022, 10:17:02 PM

Dumbest post....ever?


A - no amount of armed citizens is going to hold off a 21st-century foreign power from taking over
B - the argument for armed citizens is to defend against it's own tyrannical government

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 24, 2022, 10:44:14 PM

Russia is so screwed now

https://twitter.com/DanWetzel/status/1497016565371387908?t=&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 10:57:01 PM

I wish them well.  I think things in Kyiv are about to get a whole lot worse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 24, 2022, 11:02:42 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 10:57:01 PM

I wish them well.  I think things in Kyiv are about to get a whole lot worse.

I think the shrinking of the world has made a lot of things that were actually far away "feel" close, but at the same time, things that are actually close feel very far away.  I remember a couple years ago, when there was that mass shooting at the synagogue in Pittsburgh, it didn't hit any closer to home than any other one in America.  I think another side of that is always feeling safe because while things a half world away are an arms length away, things that are right outside your door feel the same.

Hell, Louis CK has his issues right now, but I dont think he NEEDS the work.  And he is doing a show in Kiev tonight

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 11:37:49 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 24, 2022, 07:06:19 AM

So- you were pretty adamant this invasion wasn’t happening?

yeah for two main reasons. one- US intelligence and media quoting "anonymous intelligence" sources has like zero credibility in my eyes- and they've earned that. turns out they were finally right about something- but even a broken clock is right twice in a day. and more importantly; two- i simply did not think Putin was that stupid to actually pull the trigger on a full scale invasion that would be more harmful than beneficial to him and his country and would seriously alienate the few allies he had in Europe are already turning on him, Hungary's Prime Minister Viktor Orban and Czech President Milos Zeman who both have know come out to strongly rebuke Putin and bitterly condemn his war of aggression.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 25, 2022, 06:27:36 AM

Quote

Hell, Louis CK has his issues right now, but I dont think he NEEDS the work.  And he is doing a show in Kiev tonight

Not the hero we wanted, but the hero we deserve

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 08:35:10 AM

Finish Prime Minister Sanna Marin on Thursday said Russia’s invasion of Ukraine will change the debate around NATO membership within her country.
"Finland is not currently facing an immediate military threat, but it is also now clear that the debate on NATO membership in Finland will change," Marin said, YLE News  (https://yle.fi/news/3-12332089)reported (https://yle.fi/news/3-12332089).
Finland has been debating for months whether the country should apply for NATO membership, with Marin saying it would require broad support for the country to move forward with an application. 

Finland and Sweden, who are both not officially members of NATO, will be at a summit the alliance will host Friday.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2022, 08:45:14 AM

Nope. Membership is closed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 08:46:49 AM

1. Sanctions will hurt the West, too. “It’s very hard to get countries to sign up for truly tough sanctions against Russia,” Michael Crowley, who covers the State Department for The Times, told me. “It comes at a cost to their own economies.”

Freezing out Russian banks could create problems for the global financial system. Hurting Russia’s energy industry would increase prices when inflation is already high and angering many Western workers. The effects would often be largest in the E.U., which may explain why European officials have often been more dovish on sanctions than American or British officials.

(Here’s an explainer (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/newsletter/o7PV3nJTrM1J0Yh9k8FVvA~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRj-0SQP0TjaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMjAyMi8wMi8yNC9idXNpbmVzcy9ydXNzaWEtc3dpZnQtZmluYW5jaWFsLXN5c3RlbS5odG1sP2NhbXBhaWduX2lkPTkmZW1jPWVkaXRfbm5fMjAyMjAyMjUmaW5zdGFuY2VfaWQ9NTQyMjMmbmw9dGhlLW1vcm5pbmcmcmVnaV9pZD0xNTMzNjg5MTAmc2VnbWVudF9pZD04MzkwMiZ0ZT0xJnVzZXJfaWQ9OGU1ZDJhMmI1ZTQ4YTY5NjU2MTkyY2MzYWYwYTkwMGNXA255dEIKYhaQvxhiXfjbz1IRamNkb29tOUBnbWFpbC5jb21YBAAAAAA~) about why the U.S. cannot unilaterally cut off Russia from the SWIFT financial network — and why some Europeans have reservations.)

“The European Union is Russia’s largest trading partner, accounting for 37 percent of its global trade in 2020, and receives a third of its energy from Russia,” my colleague Patricia Cohen wrote (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/newsletter/5gKWM4Pgm09qK5bPEcX3vw~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRj-0SQP0TtaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMjAyMi8wMi8yNS9idXNpbmVzcy9lY29ub215L3J1c3NpYS1ldXJvcGUtc2FuY3Rpb25zLWdhcy1vaWwuaHRtbD9jYW1wYWlnbl9pZD05JmVtYz1lZGl0X25uXzIwMjIwMjI1Jmluc3RhbmNlX2lkPTU0MjIzJm5sPXRoZS1tb3JuaW5nJnJlZ2lfaWQ9MTUzMzY4OTEwJnNlZ21lbnRfaWQ9ODM5MDImdGU9MSZ1c2VyX2lkPThlNWQyYTJiNWU0OGE2OTY1NjE5MmNjM2FmMGE5MDBjVwNueXRCCmIWkL8YYl34289SEWpjZG9vbTlAZ21haWwuY29tWAQAAAAA). “The flip side of mutual interest is mutual pain.” Matina Stevis-Gridneff, The Times’s Brussels bureau chief, adds: “The reality is that many of the tougher sanctions are considered too onerous for Europe.”

One unknown is whether the ugly reality of war in Ukraine — as opposed to merely the prospect of it — will make Western leaders and citizens more willing to accept economic costs. If not, Putin’s gamble may have succeeded, which autocrats elsewhere will no doubt notice.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 08:54:35 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2022, 08:45:14 AM

Nope. Membership is closed.

Finland and Sweden would be admitted almost instantaneously.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 08:58:01 AM

I was against the Baltics being admitted, but Finland would be a useful addition I think, given the Baltics are now in.  There are some countries I would prefer not being included but it's a done deal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2022, 09:20:56 AM

doesn't seem to me that NATO does much regardless of membership

adding or subtracting would make much difference?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 09:34:35 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 25, 2022, 09:20:56 AM

doesn't seem to me that NATO does much regardless of membership

adding or subtracting would make much difference?

I guess we won't really know unless/until an actual NATO member is attacked and Article V is invoked.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 25, 2022, 10:33:52 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 09:34:35 AM

I guess we won't really know unless/until an actual NATO member is attacked and Article V is invoked.

Good point. Also- interesting to think about the interpretation of what constitutes an “attack “ and who would actually invoke article 5.  Does a cyber attack count- for example?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 10:38:30 AM

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/t0zq2u/taliban_calls_on_russia_and_ukraine_to_end_crisis/

welp, this day couldn't have started off anymore confusing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 10:38:35 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 25, 2022, 10:33:52 AM

Good point. Also- interesting to think about the interpretation of what constitutes an “attack “ and who would actually invoke article 5.  Does a cyber attack count- for example?

I would think not but might call for a like for like exchange

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 10:39:21 AM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 10:38:30 AM

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/t0zq2u/taliban_calls_on_russia_and_ukraine_to_end_crisis/

welp, this day couldn't have started off anymore confusing.

I find that pretty funny

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 10:58:56 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 09:34:35 AM

I guess we won't really know unless/until an actual NATO member is attacked and Article V is invoked.

we don't need to look that far.

US already gave Ukraine security/defense assurances as a signatory to the Budapest Memorandum in 1994. A deal was brokered for Ukraine - which at the time had the 3rd largest nuclear arsenal in the entire world - to completely disarm and become a signatory to the NPT - and in exchange Ukraine's sovereignty, borders, and territorial integrity was to remain intact and secure and that the US would guarantee that security. It's not quite Article V of NATO, but the US has weaseled out of living up to their word- but that's just par for the course for us.

Ukraine has effectively been a US colony post the US-backed 2014 coup, and we still didn't come to their defense in 2014. Putin saw this which is probably we he figured if he takes it a step further now with invasion we still won't send troops into Ukraine.

We're partly responsible for Putin even coming into power. The US literally rigged Yeltsin's election in '96 and then bragged about it afterwards. Yeltsin was Clinton's boy-toy and a client of the US. And who did Yeltsin hand pick as his successor in 1999? Ol' Vlady P.

This is why I say- US needs to stay out of foreign countries internal affairs. It always has blowback which just winds up biting us in the ass. And why I found it absolutely hilarious when morons freaked out about the 2016 election over $100,000 worth of facebook ads and twitter trolls lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 11:04:23 AM

All of that and yet my statement remains valid and true.

We won't really know unless/until an actual NATO member is attacked and Article V is invoked.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2022, 11:05:08 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 25, 2022, 09:20:56 AM

doesn't seem to me that NATO does much regardless of membership

adding or subtracting would make much difference?

well, subtracting the good ol US of A would make a difference

NATO would be a smaller nothing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 11:05:39 AM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 10:38:30 AM

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/t0zq2u/taliban_calls_on_russia_and_ukraine_to_end_crisis/

welp, this day couldn't have started off anymore confusing.

Not one to defend the Taliban, but as far as I can tell the Taliban never really were outward aggressors- they aren't exactly ISIS looking to establish a worldwide Islamic caliphate. They are definitely total shitbags but they were fighting the US to regain control of their own country. Maybe they identify with Ukraine trying to repel the foreign invader?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 11:08:56 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 11:05:39 AM

Not one to defend the Taliban, but as far as I can tell the Taliban never really were outward aggressors- they aren't exactly ISIS looking to establish a worldwide Islamic caliphate. They are definitely total shitbags but they were fighting the US to regain control of their own country. Maybe they identify with Ukraine trying to repel the foreign invader?

There could be something to that, but you can't pretend that harboring and fostering terrorists isn't a form of outward aggression.

Taliban are hypocritical dickfaces, same as most everyone else.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 11:10:32 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 11:04:23 AM

All of that and yet my statement remains valid and true.

We won't really know unless/until an actual NATO member is attacked and Article V is invoked.

of course that's true, it's a statement of fact.

My guess is the US would weasel it's way out- like they always do- we do what benefits us, when it benefits us- period, but who the hell knows?

Part of why NATO is so dangerous and expanding NATO is so dangerous is Article V. Has serious potential to start WWIII. I'd like to not start WWIII. Article V has only been invoked once by the US after 9/11.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 11:26:32 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 25, 2022, 10:33:52 AM

Good point. Also- interesting to think about the interpretation of what constitutes an “attack “ and who would actually invoke article 5.  Does a cyber attack count- for example?

probably depends on what's attacked, too. some non-essential gov stuff, minor utilities or something? we likely respond inkind. full bore attack on military and fed gov? gonna get ugly, imo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 11:28:33 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 11:08:56 AM

There could be something to that, but you can't pretend that harboring and fostering terrorists isn't a form of outward aggression.

Taliban are hypocritical dickfaces, same as most everyone else.

yes, I'm well aware that they were harboring Bin Laden and his terrorist group. US demanded the Taliban hand Bin Laden over, the Taliban refused to hand him over unless the US gov't provided them proof Bin Laden orchestrated the 9/11 attacks. Well, that didn't go over too well with the US so they bombed and invaded Afghanistan in an attempt to capture Bin Laden- not overthrow the Taliban. However the war aims kept changing and shifting over the months and years, and for some reason that is beyond my comprehension the US bombed the shit out of them, invaded, and occupied their country for 20+ years and then installed and propped up a hilariously corrupt, criminal puppet government which collapsed in a matter of weeks once we finally left.

And by the way when Bush II was close to zeroing in on Bin Laden and actually capturing the guy- and then he goes the full retard that he is and starts an illegal war- based on complete fabrication and outright lies- and invades Iraq who (a) had nothing to do with 9/11 or AQ and (b) had no WMD's. Bush II was even asked about Bin Laden after the invasion of Iraq and said something along the lines of "I don't think about him that much anymore". WHAT?

Btw Bin Laden was found and killed hiding out in Pakistan - he had been living there for at least 5+ years - an "ally" of ours that we give billions of dollars to every single year in aid. He was being hidden by the ISI and there are even allegations that the Saudis (our mideast BFF's!) had been paying ISI to keep him. Seems like a lot of our "allies" in that region really suck.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 11:40:37 AM

thousands of Russians in 53 different cities protesting Putin's illegal invasion of Ukraine. He'll crack down on them no doubt- but I do wonder if this could be the beginning of the end for him. 

https://twitter.com/NeilPHauer/status/1496978624263696390?s=20&t=5sdb3vG7E2O9zwEX-tb-Fg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 11:42:22 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 11:28:33 AM

 Seems like a lot of our "allies" in that region really suck.

As if on cue:


https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1497162914586898475?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497162914586898475%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FSamRamani2%2Fstatus%2F1497162914586898475%3Fs%3D2026t%3D1zDH1FJ4CofihTRzuCCn_g

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 11:43:27 AM

Quote from: ELA on February 24, 2022, 11:02:42 PM

Hell, Louis CK has his issues right now, but I dont think he NEEDS the work.  And he is doing a show in Kiev tonight

https://twitter.com/lunarssr/status/1497250529059041280?s=20&t=5sdb3vG7E2O9zwEX-tb-Fg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 25, 2022, 11:43:56 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 11:08:56 AM

There could be something to that, but you can't pretend that harboring and fostering terrorists isn't a form of outward aggression.

Taliban are hypocritical dickfaces, same as most everyone else.

Thanks Utee. I always wondered if “ dickfaces” was one word or two.  😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 11:53:17 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 25, 2022, 11:43:56 AM

Thanks Utee. I always wondered if “ dickfaces” was one word or two.  😂😂

we Texans know shit like that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 11:54:11 AM

Ukraine President says they've stopped the Russian advance in most directions but the fight continues.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/25/ukraine-zelenskyy-russian-advance-stopped-in-most-directions.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 11:56:54 AM

I don't trust what anyone on either side says at this point, it would mostly be spin. 

A priority for any attacker is the command and control of the other side.  It may well be the Ukrainian leaders are cut off from their commanders in the field for the most part.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 12:02:50 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 11:56:54 AM

I don't trust what anyone on either side says at this point, it would mostly be spin.

A priority for any attacker is the command and control of the other side.  It may well be the Ukrainian leaders are cut off from their commanders in the field for the most part.

Yeah I don't either.  

And some of us are so hopeful for positive news for Ukraine that we're biased to believe too much in that direction, anyway.  I certainly include myself here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 12:03:45 PM

Shea Patterson finally fulfilled that FIVE STARZZZ NUMBER ONE QB ranking. #1 overall draft pick. In the rebooted USFL. Jeff Fisher is going to be his head coach. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 12:04:18 PM

The truth often lies somewhere in the middle.  It may well be the Russian advance is slower than expected in some areas, and perhaps making progress in others.

I see the stock market is up strongly so far.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 12:05:52 PM

China refuses to call Russian attack on Ukraine an invasion. Lol. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/24/china-refuses-to-call-attack-on-ukraine-an-invasion-blames-us.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 12:10:44 PM

China is asshole.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on February 25, 2022, 12:11:15 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 11:37:49 PM

yeah for two main reasons. one- US intelligence and media quoting "anonymous intelligence" sources has like zero credibility in my eyes- and they've earned that. turns out they were finally right about something- but even a broken clock is right twice in a day. and more importantly; two- i simply did not think Putin was that stupid to actually pull the trigger on a full scale invasion that would be more harmful than beneficial to him and his country and would seriously alienate the few allies he had in Europe are already turning on him, Hungary's Prime Minister Viktor Orban and Czech President Milos Zeman who both have know come out to strongly rebuke Putin and bitterly condemn his war of aggression.

I admit to going back and forth on whether Putin would invade Ukraine, something he's wanted to do for years:

Initially YES, because everything was finally lining up favorably for Putin - a western Europe with limited response due to their dependence on Russia's natural gas AND an American Foreign Policy posture weakened by a disastrous exit from Afghanistan. Once Putin was sure NATO wasn't going to commit troops on the ground or fighter jets over the skies, the only reaction he faced were sanctions, to which he and his billionaires are well insolated from, even sanctions targeted specifically at their wealth.

Then NO, at least not a full scale invasion targeting Kyiv. But with that many Russian Troops on the border I figured he'd still likely invade the eastern few edges for annexing into Russia, similar to what happened with Crimea.

Then back to YES, because of Putin's conquering ego. He was never going to let self-declared "World Leaders" that he sees as weaklings (Biden, Macron) or buffoons (Boris Johnson, Blinken) create for themselves political opportunism by trumpeting their own diplomacy should Putin draw down Russian Forces from Ukraine's borders.

With all that said I'm still watching in disbelief as a full scale invasion unfolds in Eastern Europe. "It is not 1919. It is 2022," to quote Linda Thomas-Greenfield, US Ambassador to the UN.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 12:11:41 PM

THIS is something I thought we might see and hoped we wouldn't-- it could end up with direct NATO implications that I've been hoping could be avoided.

https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1497252322057011202?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497252322057011202%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmarcorubio%2Fstatus%2F1497252322057011202%3Fs%3D21

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 12:16:09 PM

Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/537711927/videos/531350641560065)

Video of antiwar protest in St. Pete.  Yes, it's on FB.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 12:16:29 PM

just from watching the first two mins of that video, Zelensky is a complete dunce. He says he keeps asking 27 European leaders about NATO and keeps getting no response. DUH. DAWG....you guys have gotten no response on this for 14 years. You ain't coming into NATO any time soon. The moron that is Bush II in his infinite retarded wisdom pushed hard to force Ukraine into NATO in 2008- but France and Germany both blocked it. Instead a compromise was struck and NATO offered a phony future invitation- saying Ukraine will be members one day- and for 14 years straight there's never been a real plan of action or real date as to when they'd allowed in. NATO has kept saying Ukraine will be a member one day- while never offering them membership- all while saying Russia can't veto Ukraine from joining. It's just been a total mess. You'd think the new Ukraine government post 2014 coup would've just dropped the push to join NATO already and declared neutrality.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFHN-8Adn98

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 12:19:48 PM

NATO - Topic: NATO-Russia relations: the facts (https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_111767.htm)

NATO’s door has been open to new members since it was founded in 1949 – and that has never changed. This “Open Door Policy (https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_49212.htm#:~:text=NATO's “open door policy” is based upon Article 10 of,of the North Atlantic area”.)” is enshrined in Article 10 of NATO’s founding treaty, which says “any other European State in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic” can apply for membership. Decisions on membership are taken by consensus among all Allies. No treaty signed by the United States, Europe and Russia included provisions on NATO membership.
The idea of NATO expansion beyond a united Germany was not on the agenda in 1989, particularly as the Warsaw Pact still existed. This was confirmed by Mikhail Gorbachev in an interview (https://www.rbth.com/international/2014/10/16/mikhail_gorbachev_i_am_against_all_walls_40673.html) in 2014: "The topic of 'NATO expansion' was not discussed at all, and it wasn't brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a single Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn't bring it up, either."
Declassified White House transcripts (https://clinton.presidentiallibraries.us/items/show/57569) also reveal that, in 1997, Bill Clinton consistently refused Boris Yeltsin's offer of a 'gentlemen's agreement' that no former Soviet Republics would enter NATO: "I can't make commitments on behalf of NATO, and I'm not going to be in the position myself of vetoing NATO expansion with respect to any country, much less letting you or anyone else do so…NATO operates by consensus."

The Historical Dispute Behind Russia’s Threat to Invade Ukraine | The New Yorker (https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-historical-dispute-behind-russias-threat-to-invade-ukraine)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 12:20:20 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 12:10:44 PM

China is asshole.

and their dictator definitely doesn't look like winnie the pooh. 


(https://i0.wp.com/www.opindia.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Xi-Jinping-Winnie-the-Pooh.jpg?fit=1050%2C597&ssl=1)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 25, 2022, 12:25:04 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 12:20:20 PM

and their dictator definitely doesn't look like winnie the pooh.


(https://i0.wp.com/www.opindia.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Xi-Jinping-Winnie-the-Pooh.jpg?fit=1050%2C597&ssl=1)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8fwgVUfW_O4

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 12:32:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 12:19:48 PM

NATO - Topic: NATO-Russia relations: the facts (https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_111767.htm)

NATO’s door has been open to new members since it was founded in 1949 – and that has never changed. This “Open Door Policy (https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_49212.htm#:~:text=NATO's “open door policy” is based upon Article 10 of,of the North Atlantic area”.)” is enshrined in Article 10 of NATO’s founding treaty, which says “any other European State in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic” can apply for membership. Decisions on membership are taken by consensus among all Allies. No treaty signed by the United States, Europe and Russia included provisions on NATO membership.
The idea of NATO expansion beyond a united Germany was not on the agenda in 1989, particularly as the Warsaw Pact still existed. This was confirmed by Mikhail Gorbachev in an interview (https://www.rbth.com/international/2014/10/16/mikhail_gorbachev_i_am_against_all_walls_40673.html) in 2014: "The topic of 'NATO expansion' was not discussed at all, and it wasn't brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a single Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn't bring it up, either."
Declassified White House transcripts (https://clinton.presidentiallibraries.us/items/show/57569) also reveal that, in 1997, Bill Clinton consistently refused Boris Yeltsin's offer of a 'gentlemen's agreement' that no former Soviet Republics would enter NATO: "I can't make commitments on behalf of NATO, and I'm not going to be in the position myself of vetoing NATO expansion with respect to any country, much less letting you or anyone else do so…NATO operates by consensus."

We've been over this 100 times already....you can't change history. There was never assurances on the limits of future NATO expansion in writing, and no one has ever claimed there was-  those assurances were in private conversations and private meetings at the highest levels of government. Declassified documents from 5 different governments prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt. The evidence is incontrovertible. Those assurances were verbal, which is why the US/NATO has been able to weasel out of those assurances "hey, not in writing, doesn't count!".

And Gorbachev completely changed his tune- as he had said something completely different in the years prior to that statement in 2014. He might've been trying to save face for getting played like a fiddle by Bush I and Baker.

And even bringing up Boris Yeltsin is hilarious. Yeltsin was essentially a puppet of Clinton, and he was only in power because Clinton's administration helped rig that election in '96 in Yeltsin's favor. Clinton had Yeltsin by the balls, he was effectively Clinton's bitch.

And while US wields by far the most power over NATO- that last line is true- it does have to operate by consensus- and that reason is why Ukraine is not a part of NATO. US wasn't able to bully France and Germany into accepting Ukraine in '08. Bush II tried to force Ukraine into full NATO membership in 2008- but it was shot down by France and Germany in large part for fear of inciting Russia. A compromise was made that they would basically have an open ended invitation and that they will be future members- and NATO has repeated that promise/statement over the years- but has never actually told Ukraine or the world how or when they'd be joining.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 12:34:54 PM

So, there was never any such agreement, maybe a few words were said, maybe they were misinterpreted, maybe later Administrations didn't agree.

No agreement, at all, none, it's russian propaganda.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 25, 2022, 12:37:22 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 24, 2022, 10:17:02 PM

Dumbest post....ever?


A - no amount of armed citizens is going to hold off a 21st-century foreign power from taking over
B - the argument for armed citizens is to defend against it's own tyrannical government

Tell that to the goat herders in Afghanistan. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 12:40:11 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 12:34:54 PM

So, there was never any such agreement, maybe a few words were said, maybe they were misinterpreted, maybe later Administrations didn't agree.

No agreement, at all, none, it's russian propaganda.

dude I linked you the declassified documents. there's like nearly 40 of them. they were pretty cut and dry and fascinating to read. US/Europe leaders pretty adamant that they wouldn't be expanding if Germany reunited. so they must've been lying through their teeth...but I don't think they were.

the problem is power in the US and European countries constantly changes. that's a great thing- democracy and all that jazz. But one administration comes in- has different views and ideas. Bush I was only in power for one term. He kept to the assurances however- because well...he made them. Clinton came in- bye bye assurances and it's been the same for every administration. Clinton, Bush II, Obama, and even Trump administrations all saw NATO expansion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 12:49:26 PM

The New Yorker article covers it pretty well.  I think the rest is Russian propaganda.

No agreement is worth spit unless it's written and ratified, and even then it can be changed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 12:50:21 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/Z20GDZc/Screen-Shot-2022-02-25-at-12-49-16-PM.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 12:55:16 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 12:49:26 PM

The New Yorker article covers it pretty well.  I think the rest is Russian propaganda.

No agreement is worth spit unless it's written and ratified, and even then it can be changed.

bolded - I don't necessarily think it's Russian propaganda. Assurances were definitely made- you can read the meetings/conversations- it's all there. They probably do feel like they were duped/tricked/slighted- and I don't doubt that having NATO (a military alliance) surround them probably does not give them the warm and fuzzies.

underlined - I agree 100%. Even if written/ratified agreements can be worthless. US like most countries do what suits them best when it suits them. US is a signatory to Budapest Memorandum - they were suppose to come to Ukraine's defense in 2014 - they didn't. Not doing it now either.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 12:58:31 PM

Ergo, there was never an agreement, it's stupid to claim there was, and Putin propaganda.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 01:07:42 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 12:58:31 PM

Ergo, there was never an agreement, it's stupid to claim there was, and Putin propaganda.

Has he claimed there was an agreement? Or simply that Russia was lied to? Those are very different things. Think it's pretty clear they were played/lied to/misled.

And in December he sent the US/Biden administration a list of things he was looking for in negotiations with the US/NATO. #1 on that list was a written agreement with guarantees NATO would quit expanding eastward- with #1 bullet on the list being that Ukraine would not become a member of NATO and would remain neutral. Biden administration said we'll negotiate with you on everything- except that. So the #1 thing he was looking for, the Biden administration wouldn't even talk to him about.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 01:11:44 PM

Federal Reserve passes new rules which bars Fed officials from trading stocks, crypto, and bonds.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKgOntJpr5k

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 01:17:16 PM

Vladimir Putin says the West 'has ignored' Russia's key security concerns and NATO 'screwed us over' - CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/01/europe/vladimir-putin-west-ignored-russia-concerns-intl/index.html)

Putin (https://www.cnn.com/2013/01/03/world/europe/vladimir-putin---fast-facts/index.html) ended the news conference with a short lecture about what he characterized as NATO's history of deceptions, claiming that the alliance promised to expand "not an inch" eastward. "They said one thing, they did another," Putin said. "As people say, they screwed us over, well they simply deceived us."
Russian officials have repeatedly made this claim in the past; the US and NATO have denied making such promises.
Putin also reiterated his opposition to the possibility of Ukraine joining NATO, and said Kyiv was attempting to retake Crimea -- the Ukrainian territory annexed by Russia in 2014 -- by military force, potentially bringing the alliance into open conflict with Russia.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 01:21:01 PM

Putin makes his spy chief almost piss his pants....and then the spy chief says the quiet part out loud...."I support the proposal about the entry of the Donetsk and Luhansk's People's Republics into the Russian Federation." WHOOPS. Lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-u8EoWcI

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 01:21:08 PM

https://twitter.com/Mariia_Zolkina/status/1497273534435012608?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497273534435012608%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmariia_zolkina%2Fstatus%2F1497273534435012608%3Fs%3D21

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 01:23:15 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 01:17:16 PM

Vladimir Putin says the West 'has ignored' Russia's key security concerns and NATO 'screwed us over' - CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/01/europe/vladimir-putin-west-ignored-russia-concerns-intl/index.html)

Putin (https://www.cnn.com/2013/01/03/world/europe/vladimir-putin---fast-facts/index.html) ended the news conference with a short lecture about what he characterized as NATO's history of deceptions, claiming that the alliance promised to expand "not an inch" eastward. "They said one thing, they did another," Putin said. "As people say, they screwed us over, well they simply deceived us."
Russian officials have repeatedly made this claim in the past; the US and NATO have denied making such promises.
Putin also reiterated his opposition to the possibility of Ukraine joining NATO, and said Kyiv was attempting to retake Crimea -- the Ukrainian territory annexed by Russia in 2014 -- by military force, potentially bringing the alliance into open conflict with Russia.

Yeah I see where he's saying they were deceived/screwed over/lied to - which if you look at declassified gov't cables and documents from like 5 different governments - they kinda were. 

Not seeing where he claimed there was any sort of written agreement or treaty.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 01:31:46 PM

thought you looked into his eyes and saw his soul, and that he was a good man and all that jazz, dipshit. lol.

https://twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/1496846064023834630?s=20&t=7yPqqV-11IZUc1msI99MGA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2022, 01:37:33 PM

The Defiant Last Stand of the Ukraine's Snake Island Defenders | Military.com (https://www.military.com/daily-news/2022/02/25/go-f-k-yourself-defiant-last-stand-of-ukraines-snake-island-defenders.html)


"I am a Russian warship, I repeat: I suggest you lay down your arms and surrender otherwise you will be bombed."

The recording goes silent, and the defenders are heard saying, "This is it." 

Then came their reply.


"Russian warship - go f--k yourself."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 01:44:30 PM

Ukraine Russia news: Kremlin threatens Finland to stay out of NATO (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/25/russia-ukraine-news-us-europe-impose-sanctions-as-attack-continues.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 01:46:18 PM

Putin claims NATO made "promises" not to expand NATO.  "Promises"?  For what?  Nonsense, it's Putin rewriting history.

Now he threatens Finland, and apparently Russia NOW may be agreeing to talks with Ukraine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 01:47:32 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 01:21:08 PM

https://twitter.com/Mariia_Zolkina/status/1497273534435012608?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497273534435012608%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmariia_zolkina%2Fstatus%2F1497273534435012608%3Fs%3D21

i hope the ghost of kyiv is a true story. doubt it'll be verified one way or the other for a while, though.

but ukraine has had some legendary actions taken already. snake island 13, babushka, and vitaly skakun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 01:48:54 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 01:44:30 PM

Ukraine Russia news: Kremlin threatens Finland to stay out of NATO (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/25/russia-ukraine-news-us-europe-impose-sanctions-as-attack-continues.html)

Nothing happens in a vacuum. The guy has been talking about and railing against NATO expansion for 15 years. I don't think he's playing around. He's shown that. We should take him at his word. NATO expansion is just playing with fire, it will lead to more conflict, not less.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 01:49:18 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 01:31:46 PM

thought you looked into his eyes and saw his soul, and that he was a good man and all that jazz, dipshit. lol.

https://twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/1496846064023834630?s=20&t=7yPqqV-11IZUc1msI99MGA

at least he isn't actively praising him for this invasion, like trump is/did.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 01:49:55 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 01:47:32 PM

i hope the ghost of kyiv is a true story. doubt it'll be verified one way or the other for a while, though.

but ukraine has had some legendary actions taken already. snake island 13, babushka, and vitaly skakun.

yeah that is definitely some boss shit. Ukrainians are gangster. Ghost of Kyiv sounds like a bad ass rap album name or something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 01:52:50 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 01:49:18 PM

at least he isn't actively praising him for this invasion, like trump is/did.

did he praise the invasion? didn't see what he said. wouldn't surprise me if he pat Putin on the back for out-smarting Biden and blamed Biden for the invasion- politics and such.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 01:55:24 PM

Russian and Ukrainian fighters are the same models, in the air they'd look the same, a single bold Ukrainian could use that to advantage, even if the IFF was set differently.  Everyone else in the air would be Russian.  A Russian would hesitate to fire on a Russian jet even if the IFF was not squawking right.

An F-16 would lack that advantage.  An F-15 resembles some of their Su fighters.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 02:00:18 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 01:46:18 PM

Putin claims NATO made "promises" not to expand NATO.  "Promises"?  For what?  Nonsense, it's Putin rewriting history.

Now he threatens Finland, and apparently Russia NOW may be agreeing to talks with Ukraine.

I'm not going to link the nearly 40 declassified cables and documents, but there were most definitely verbal assurances (promises) made on NATO expansion eastward. For what? The withdraw of the Soviet army in East Germany and the reunification of Germany. Germany-  you know - a country that just 45 or so years prior to that point had invaded and devastated USSR/Russia- killing millions of Russians in the process. He's not rewriting history. I still don't see his claim of an agreement or treaty- as you suggested.

Finland should remain neutral. It's worked wonderfully for them for decades. There hasn't been any conflict there. Why start sh*t now?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 25, 2022, 02:00:56 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2022, 01:37:33 PM

The Defiant Last Stand of the Ukraine's Snake Island Defenders | Military.com (https://www.military.com/daily-news/2022/02/25/go-f-k-yourself-defiant-last-stand-of-ukraines-snake-island-defenders.html)


"I am a Russian warship, I repeat: I suggest you lay down your arms and surrender otherwise you will be bombed."

The recording goes silent, and the defenders are heard saying, "This is it."

Then came their reply.


"Russian warship - go f--k yourself."

I posted this( twitter’s) yesterday buster. Sadly- they were all killed immediately and it was live-streamed 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 25, 2022, 02:04:11 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/COUPSURE/status/1496979972816314372?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1496979972816314372%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fworld%2Fukrainian-soldier-livestreamed-snake-island-heroic-stand

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 02:11:15 PM

so, this guy wasn't a prophet or anything....


https://www.mearsheimer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Why-the-Ukraine-Crisis-Is.pdf

https://twitter.com/buddhimedia/status/1496783097534111746?s=20&t=dARMi2Ic0zvZUcbxMc5HkQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 25, 2022, 02:15:48 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/9XZhJuX.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 02:18:20 PM

Kremlin agent! Putin puppet! Hard to disagree with the guy on any of this....even if he's a total doucher....

https://twitter.com/JustinPulitzer/status/1496709662602932224?s=20&t=7yPqqV-11IZUc1msI99MGA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 02:20:09 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 01:52:50 PM

 wouldn't surprise me if he pat Putin on the back for out-smarting Biden and blamed Biden for the invasion- politics and such.

That's exactly what he did.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 02:21:42 PM

current CIA director back in 2008, when Bush II was pushing for Ukraine to become full NATO members (which was blocked by France and Germany). 

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMcqXd7WUAcjxQK?format=jpg&name=large)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 02:22:00 PM

"Russian Warship, Go F*CK yourself" is going to live on for many years.  RIP to those Ukrainian soldiers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 02:24:04 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 02:22:00 PM

"Russian Warship, Go F*CK yourself" is going to live on for many years.  RIP to those Ukrainian soldiers.

whoever makes t-shirts and starts selling those will make some money.....did I just come up with a money making idea? I think I did.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 02:25:04 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 02:24:04 PM

whoever makes t-shirts and starts selling those will make some money.....did I just come up with a money making idea? I think I did.

Check Redbubble, it's probably already available there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 02:46:02 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 01:52:50 PM

did he praise the invasion? didn't see what he said. wouldn't surprise me if he pat Putin on the back for out-smarting Biden and blamed Biden for the invasion- politics and such.

just gonna put his quotes here so whatever source i link isn't biasing it. google it and pick whichever one you want.

"I went in yesterday and there was a television screen and I said 'This is genius.' Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine — Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful. So Putin is now saying it's independent - a large section of Ukraine - I said 'How smart is that?' And he’s going to go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s the strongest peace force—we could use that on our southern border - that's the strongest peace force that I've ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen—they’re gonna keep peace all right. No, but think of it, here's a guy who's very savvy. I know him very well. Very, very well."


later at a fundraising event, he doubled down:

"He's taken over a country for $2 worth of sanctions. I'd say that's pretty smart. Listen, he's taking over a country - literally a vast, vast location, a great piece of land with a lot of people - just walking right in. This would have never happened, ever in a million years ,would have never happened - cause I know him, I know him very well... (then goes on to recognize donors in room, unrelated to russia/ukraine situation)"

and maybe most telling is that russian tv is using his statements as propaganda and justification to the russian people that they're justified.
https://twitter.com/TheRickWilson/status/1496928360022388737

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2022, 03:03:13 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 02:24:04 PM

whoever makes t-shirts and starts selling those will make some money.....did I just come up with a money making idea? I think I did.

I gave you the idea, knucklehead.

So, put it on this site to sell. We get half, you get half. Deal?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 03:10:16 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 02:46:02 PM

just gonna put his quotes here so whatever source i link isn't biasing it. google it and pick whichever one you want.

"I went in yesterday and there was a television screen and I said 'This is genius.' Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine — Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful. So Putin is now saying it's independent - a large section of Ukraine - I said 'How smart is that?' And he’s going to go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s the strongest peace force—we could use that on our southern border - that's the strongest peace force that I've ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen—they’re gonna keep peace all right. No, but think of it, here's a guy who's very savvy. I know him very well. Very, very well."


later at a fundraising event, he doubled down:

"He's taken over a country for $2 worth of sanctions. I'd say that's pretty smart. Listen, he's taking over a country - literally a vast, vast location, a great piece of land with a lot of people - just walking right in. This would have never happened, ever in a million years ,would have never happened - cause I know him, I know him very well... (then goes on to recognize donors in room, unrelated to russia/ukraine situation)"

and maybe most telling is that russian tv is using his statements as propaganda and justification to the russian people that they're justified.
https://twitter.com/TheRickWilson/status/1496928360022388737

Are we faulting Trump for telling the truth?

Putin is very smart and yes this is only happening because we have a potted plant in the White House.

What are the unsaid allegations here?  That Trump is a Putin supporter?

Dont be coy just come out and say it

Better then half this country wishes we had Trump instead of the plant and its growing daily.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2022, 03:17:48 PM

Met with a surgeon down here today. He was amazed at how fast I'm healing. I'm at 90% now. PT starts Monday.

(https://i.imgur.com/Q94srae.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 03:19:08 PM

Good luck with the rehab bf.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 25, 2022, 03:19:29 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2022, 03:03:13 PM

I gave you the idea, knucklehead.

So, put it on this site to sell. We get half, you get half. Deal?

 No.  I did

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 03:21:12 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/EtlMwU6.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 03:23:02 PM

Thats a lot of hardware

Steve Austin would be jealous 

a little rehab and you'll be up and running all over the place

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 25, 2022, 03:23:39 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2022, 03:17:48 PM

Met with a surgeon down here today. He was amazed at how fast I'm healing. I'm at 90% now. PT starts Monday.

Got a creepy crawly on your leg,good luck with therapy,when did you go under the knife

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 25, 2022, 03:27:17 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 03:10:16 PM

Are we faulting Trump for telling the truth?

Putin is very smart and yes this is only happening because we have a potted plant in the White House.

What are the unsaid allegations here?  That Trump is a Putin supporter?

Dont be coy just come out and say it

Better then half this country wishes we had Trump instead of the plant and its growing daily.

It’s going to take a hell of a lot of work to make up for all the damage he’s done internationally and nationally," Biden said. "His network of thugs and co-conspirators are going to continue to try to undermine our democracy in the meantime."

"Imagine what he can do in another year," Biden continued. "Imagine what can happen to Ukraine."

Joe Biden- 2019

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2022, 03:30:43 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 25, 2022, 03:19:29 PM

No.  I did

No. I did.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 25, 2022, 03:31:24 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2022, 03:30:43 PM

No. I did.

😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2022, 03:32:30 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2022, 01:37:33 PM

The Defiant Last Stand of the Ukraine's Snake Island Defenders | Military.com (https://www.military.com/daily-news/2022/02/25/go-f-k-yourself-defiant-last-stand-of-ukraines-snake-island-defenders.html)


"I am a Russian warship, I repeat: I suggest you lay down your arms and surrender otherwise you will be bombed."

The recording goes silent, and the defenders are heard saying, "This is it."

Then came their reply.


"Russian warship - go f--k yourself."

:)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 03:33:09 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 25, 2022, 03:27:17 PM

It’s going to take a hell of a lot of work to make up for all the damage he’s done internationally and nationally," Biden said. "His network of thugs and co-conspirators are going to continue to try to undermine our democracy in the meantime."

"Imagine what he can do in another year," Biden continued. "Imagine what can happen to Ukraine."

Joe Biden- 2019

Trump lives rent free in the dems' heads

always has and always will

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2022, 03:33:26 PM

Twitter never lets me open, since I don't have one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 25, 2022, 03:35:09 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2022, 03:33:26 PM

Twitter never lets me open, since I don't have one.

Good.  I don’t have Twitter either but I did post that Twitter last night well before you did buddy.

The good news is I don’t have to be butt hurt thinking that you don’t read my posts 😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2022, 03:35:55 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 03:33:09 PM

Trump lives rent free in the dems' heads

always has and always will

(https://i.imgur.com/PlIdFgL.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2022, 03:36:25 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 25, 2022, 03:35:09 PM

Good.  I don’t on Twitter either but I did post that Twitter last night well before you did buddy.

The good news is I don’t have to be butt hurt thinking that you don’t read my posts 😂😂😂

Well, you can have 10 percent. We need the money here. :(

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 25, 2022, 03:37:20 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2022, 03:36:25 PM

Well, you can have 10 percent. We need the money here. :(

I’m in!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 03:50:27 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 03:10:16 PM

Are we faulting Trump for telling the truth?

Putin is very smart and yes this is only happening because we have a potted plant in the White House.

What are the unsaid allegations here?  That Trump is a Putin supporter?

Dont be coy just come out and say it

Better then half this country wishes we had Trump instead of the plant and its growing daily.

not sure how much more i need to say it. trump is the worst disaster to happen to the us. does he support putin? only when it benefits him. trump doesn't give 2 shits about anything but himself.

as for this not happening with trump in charge, lol. russia was in ukraine the entire time trump was in office, and trump did nothing. actually, trump did do something, he withheld congressionally approved funds to support ukraine (helping putin), and did so only at the goal of his own personal gain (not losing election). he also attempted to get us out of nato (something putin so desperately wants). he did issue some minor sanctions and several statements condemning russia, so there's that i guess.

only reason it might not have happened with trump in office is if putin thought trump would pull out of nato, and he would wait until that happened.

again, trump doesn't (edit: said does, meant doesn't) support putin. he doesn't give a shit about him or russia. doesn't give a shit about ukraine either. and really doesn't give a shit about usa. trump cares for trump only. and will do only what he thinks is in his best interest.

fwiw and before you say anything about it, i don't like biden either. but i do think he's handled this situation fine so far. at least based on info i can tell. but i'll take a potted plant over a corrupt bitch anyday.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 03:58:38 PM

We should try and limit direct political opinions here when possible.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 04:02:18 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 03:10:16 PM

Are we faulting Trump for telling the truth?

also, trump is severely wrong on this anyway. this invasion isn't smart. it wasn't savvy. it didn't deceive anyone. the rest of the world saw it coming for weeks and months, if not longer. they aren't getting away with pulling one over on the west like some clever trickster. he didn't find some loophole in international law and take advantage of it. and it's not cheap on russia either, even if they do eventually succeed.

hell, doing this is probably going to have the opposite intended effect of deflating nato. finland and sweden are likely to join now, which was never the case before. ukraine will definitely be in if they manage to hold out and remained independent, which was iffy at best before. and nato is increasing forces along the eastern front, which is the opposite of what's been happening for the last 20 years or so. if anything, putin's "smart, savvy" actions have strengthened nato. and they're going to take a hell of a financial hit to do it, too.

so, no, trump didn't tell the truth. he's just wrong... again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 04:08:21 PM

Russia is going to pay a price for this, it might not be "enough", but their military is being damaged to some extent, and possibly not looking very competent.  The troops may have very low morale and not be very committed to killing "fellow Russians", in effect.  I agree, I don't see the move as clever.

Had Putin done as I expected, and just moved into the contested areas in the East, I might have said he was being savvy, maybe, but this whole thing strikes me as stupid, and possibly destabilizing for Putin.  If Ukraine can hold out, Putin could lose favor in the "Politburo" and get outed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 04:12:11 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 03:50:27 PM

not sure how much more i need to say it. trump is the worst disaster to happen to the us. does he support putin? only when it benefits him. trump doesn't give 2 shits about anything but himself.

as for this not happening with trump in charge, lol. russia was in ukraine the entire time trump was in office, and trump did nothing. actually, trump did do something, he withheld congressionally approved funds to support ukraine (helping putin), and did so only at the goal of his own personal gain (not losing election). he also attempted to get us out of nato (something putin so desperately wants). he did issue some minor sanctions and several statements condemning russia, so there's that i guess.

only reason it might not have happened with trump in office is if putin thought trump would pull out of nato, and he would wait until that happened.

again, trump doesn't (edit: said does, meant doesn't) support putin. he doesn't give a shit about him or russia. doesn't give a shit about ukraine either. and really doesn't give a shit about usa. trump cares for trump only. and will do only what he thinks is in his best interest.

fwiw and before you say anything about it, i don't like biden either. but i do think he's handled this situation fine so far. at least based on info i can tell. but i'll take a potted plant over a corrupt bitch anyday.

this part me lol. literally. Biden is fantastically corrupt. he didn't get the nickname, the senator from MBNA for no reason, I mean we could go on for days about his blatant, out in the open corruption. His son was getting paid $83,000 a month from a Ukrainian energy company- while his father was Vice President of the United States and appointed by President Obama as head of Ukraine policy- while Ukraine was effectively a US colony post a coup the US backed, supported, and propped up which overthrew a democratically elected government. Euromaidan was not just some demonstration that organically spread like wildfire and democracy sprouted like a rose from the concrete from it - it doesn't go full overthrow without direct US support and meddling. Dude was HEAD of Ukraine policy in a US puppet/client/colony - and dudes son was getting $83,000 a month to sit on the board of a Ukrainian energy company. Not to mention the guy f**king openly brags about forcing US client state to fire a prosecutor who just so happened to be investigating said energy company that was paying his crack head son $83,000 a month.

Speaking of congressionally approved funds going to Ukraine - you do realize that a good chunk of those funds have gone to neo-nazi organizations, right? The state department- which classifies the Azov Battalion as a nationalist hate group - and Congress approved funding to these people. 

Trump is a bully. He knows how to deal with bullies. He stroked Putin's ego, tried to get along with him. Biden refused to talk to the guy at times. I believe he's refusing to talk to him right now. You make peace with your enemies, not your friends. Only way you can do that is by talking to your enemies.

And Trump never attempted to get the US out of NATO. He openly talked about- all while bashing Western Europe for not spending on defense and buying Russian energy and not American energy. I've linked a video below, it's a great watch. Trump sent lethal arms to Ukraine. Something even Obama (correctly imo) wouldn't do. Trump deported more Russian officials and oligarchs from US soil than did Obama. Trump imposed more and tougher sanctions on Russia than did Obama. Trump tried like hell to block NordStream2. 

Who knows what would happen if Trump was in charge. There is no way to know. Unless the issue of Ukraine/NATO was settled- the same thing would likely be happening. NATO expansion has been a sour point for Russia for decades- and it's finally come to head and blown up.

https://twitter.com/JustinPulitzer/status/1496709662602932224?s=20&t=jRyf6A37HZcZ-_ts0ZVbyA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 04:14:34 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 04:02:18 PM

also, trump is severely wrong on this anyway. this invasion isn't smart. it wasn't savvy. it didn't deceive anyone. the rest of the world saw it coming for weeks and months, if not longer. they aren't getting away with pulling one over on the west like some clever trickster. he didn't find some loophole in international law and take advantage of it. and it's not cheap on russia either, even if they do eventually succeed.

hell, doing this is probably going to have the opposite intended effect of deflating nato. finland and sweden are likely to join now, which was never the case before. ukraine will definitely be in if they manage to hold out and remained independent, which was iffy at best before. and nato is increasing forces along the eastern front, which is the opposite of what's been happening for the last 20 years or so. if anything, putin's "smart, savvy" actions have strengthened nato. and they're going to take a hell of a financial hit to do it, too.

so, no, trump didn't tell the truth. he's just wrong... again.

Putin quickly saw how Biden was reducing this country's oil producing ability he also was given assurance by Biden that the US was going to stand by and allow this to happen doing nothing more then harmless sanctions

and if we saw this coming we sure didnt prepare for it very well

so yes Trump was very right.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 04:15:18 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 04:08:21 PM

Russia is going to pay a price for this, it might not be "enough", but their military is being damaged to some extent, and possibly not looking very competent.  The troops may have very low morale and not be very committed to killing "fellow Russians", in effect.  I agree, I don't see the move as clever.

Had Putin done as I expected, and just moved into the contested areas in the East, I might have said he was being savvy, maybe, but this whole thing strikes me as stupid, and possibly destabilizing for Putin.  If Ukraine can hold out, Putin could lose favor in the "Politburo" and get outed.

I agree. Aside from being morally bankrupt, illegal, criminal, and wrong, it was a bad move. This is going to bite him in the long run if Ukraine can hold out.

But if he gets a binding agreement in writing with a neutral Ukraine and no NATO - then he'll have gotten what he wants- even if what he did to get that was wrong.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 04:21:08 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 04:02:18 PM

also, trump is severely wrong on this anyway. this invasion isn't smart. it wasn't savvy. it didn't deceive anyone. the rest of the world saw it coming for weeks and months, if not longer. they aren't getting away with pulling one over on the west like some clever trickster. he didn't find some loophole in international law and take advantage of it. and it's not cheap on russia either, even if they do eventually succeed.

hell, doing this is probably going to have the opposite intended effect of deflating nato. finland and sweden are likely to join now, which was never the case before. ukraine will definitely be in if they manage to hold out and remained independent, which was iffy at best before. and nato is increasing forces along the eastern front, which is the opposite of what's been happening for the last 20 years or so. if anything, putin's "smart, savvy" actions have strengthened nato. and they're going to take a hell of a financial hit to do it, too.

so, no, trump didn't tell the truth. he's just wrong... again.

not sure he cares that much about Sweden. He seems be concerned about countries that border Russia being a part of a hostile military alliance. I honestly can't say I blame him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 04:22:34 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 04:14:34 PM

Putin quickly saw how Biden was reducing this country's oil producing ability he also was given assurance by Biden that the US was going to stand by and allow this to happen doing nothing more then harmless sanctions

and if we saw this coming we sure didnt prepare for it very well

so yes Trump was very right.

not sure trump was right. there is no way to know. 

this was likely going to happen unless Ukraine/NATO issue was dead with a binding agreement in writing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2022, 04:23:32 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2022, 03:17:48 PM

Met with a surgeon down here today. He was amazed at how fast I'm healing. I'm at 90% now. PT starts Monday.

you're young!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 04:31:58 PM

https://twitter.com/Joyce_Karam/status/1497319619169763334?s=20&t=VFOOzaf-gCLC0GaMlUMXzg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 04:33:45 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 04:21:08 PM

not sure he cares that much about Sweden. He seems be concerned about countries that border Russia being a part of a hostile military alliance. I honestly can't say I blame him.

define hostile. and then explain how russia isn't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 04:35:51 PM

https://twitter.com/TonyBattersby2/status/1497323584116736001?s=20&t=hEtgvRfpFhIZeZJFlsO-AQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 04:42:12 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 04:33:45 PM

define hostile. and then explain how russia isn't.

man this shit just doesn't happen in a vacuum. there are a series of events throughout the last 30 years that have lead here. Russia sees NATO as a hostile military alliance. Hostile to Russia. The literal definition of hostile is unfriendly; antagonistic. They most definitely view the US and it's military alliance as unfriendly and antagonistic. As they should.

They simply do no want a hostile military alliance encroaching all over their borders. It's unacceptable to them. As it would be to the US if say there was a military alliance trying to recruit Mexico and Canada or Cuba or any central or latin american country. Major powers like to have buffer zones and maintain spheres of influence. This is nothing new. The US doesn't try to maintain a sphere of influence over just a handful of bordering states- the US has said for almost 200 years now - the Western Hemisphere is OURS- half the entire f**king planet. OURS. F**k with us, find out. It's not unreasonable for Russia to not want further NATO incursion on their borders. At all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 04:51:35 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 04:21:08 PM

not sure he cares that much about Sweden. He seems be concerned about countries that border Russia being a part of a hostile military alliance. I honestly can't say I blame him.

If you are talking about NATO Im not sure I would categorize an alliance purely defensive in nature as hostile

To my knowledge every military asset a NATO country has is designed for defense correct me if Im wrong

If Mexico put in stinger missiles close to our border I dont think we would consider that as a hostile act unless we were thinking of invading

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 04:57:47 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 04:42:12 PM

 the US has said for almost 200 years now - the Western Hemisphere is OURS- half the entire f**king planet. OURS. F**k with us, find out. It's not unreasonable for Russia to not want further NATO incursion on their borders. At all.

I assume you are talking about the Monroe doctrine which does not claim ownership of another country

It simply says a country outside the North or south America cant come in and take over a country within that area

This was one of the issues brought up during the Cuban missile crisis

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 05:01:57 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 04:42:12 PM

man this shit just doesn't happen in a vacuum. there are a series of events throughout the last 30 years that have lead here. Russia sees NATO as a hostile military alliance. Hostile to Russia. The literal definition of hostile is unfriendly; antagonistic. They most definitely view the US and it's military alliance as unfriendly and antagonistic. As they should.

They simply do no want a hostile military alliance encroaching all over their borders. It's unacceptable to them. As it would be to the US if say there was a military alliance trying to recruit Mexico and Canada or Cuba or any central or latin american country. Major powers like to have buffer zones and maintain spheres of influence. This is nothing new. The US doesn't try to maintain a sphere of influence over just a handful of bordering states- the US has said for almost 200 years now - the Western Hemisphere is OURS- half the entire f**king planet. OURS. F**k with us, find out. It's not unreasonable for Russia to want further NATO incursion on their borders. At all.

you're right, it doesn't happen in a vacuum. nato is the result of russian aggression and hostility towards us and europe. 

one side is aggressively and militarily attacking neighboring countries (both historically and currently), while the other side is forming alliances to agree to protect themselves and each other from said attacks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 25, 2022, 05:06:48 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 04:51:35 PM

If you are talking about NATO Im not sure I would categorize an alliance purely defensive in nature as hostile

To my knowledge every military asset a NATO country has is designed for defense correct me if Im wrong

If Mexico put in stinger missiles close to our border I dont think we would consider that as a hostile act unless we were thinking of invading

Stinger missiles are used to shoot down aircraft - if you were flying to a mexican resort,you'd have no problem with that? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 05:09:51 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 04:57:47 PM

I assume you are talking about the Monroe doctrine which does not claim ownership of another country

It simply says a country outside the North or south America cant come in and take over a country within that area

This was one of the issues brought up during the Cuban missile crisis

Yeah, I never said ownership. I said sphere of influence. Monroe Doctrine basically said: foreign countries you are all are off-limits from meddling in this entire hemisphere. This is our sphere of influence, and this entire hemisphere is ours.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 25, 2022, 05:10:52 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 04:42:12 PM

The US doesn't try to maintain a sphere of influence over just a handful of bordering states- the US has said for almost 200 years now - the Western Hemisphere is OURS- half the entire f**king planet. OURS. F**k with us, find out.

Really,tell it to the border guards and states who have been told to stand down as god knows what comes in

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 05:11:18 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 05:01:57 PM

you're right, it doesn't happen in a vacuum. nato is the result of russian aggression and hostility towards us and europe.

one side is aggressively and militarily attacking neighboring countries (both historically and currently), while the other side is forming alliances to agree to protect themselves and each other from said attacks.

Yeah, this just isn't reality but if it makes you feel better, then fine, I guess.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 25, 2022, 05:12:47 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 25, 2022, 05:06:48 PM

Stinger missiles are used to shoot down aircraft - if you were flying to a mexican resort,you'd have no problem with that?

Not particularly. Mexico wants our tourist dollars. Shooting down commercial airliners isn't exactly in their interest. Heck, they might have surface to air missiles already (I'm not up on the Mexican military's armament situation). It doesn't take massive technology to hit an airliner--it's not a stealth bomber. Using those on commercial airliners is not something they would benefit from doing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 05:13:14 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 04:51:35 PM

If you are talking about NATO Im not sure I would categorize an alliance purely defensive in nature as hostile

To my knowledge every military asset a NATO country has is designed for defense correct me if Im wrong

If Mexico put in stinger missiles close to our border I dont think we would consider that as a hostile act unless we were thinking of invading

No such thing as a defensive weapon nor is there any such thing as a defensive military alliance, my dude. Think about it for a moment, it just doesn't make sense.

If Mexico or Canada tried joining a military alliance that was hostile to the US it would be game over. We'd wipe 'em out in 5 seconds flat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2022, 05:14:10 PM

but, if Putin put the stingers in Mexico.............

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 05:15:39 PM

There are "defensive weapons", things like mines for example.  It's a bit tough to use a mine on the offense.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 25, 2022, 05:16:57 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 05:11:18 PM

Yeah, this just isn't reality but if it makes you feel better, then fine, I guess.

Do you think Putin is concerned about NATO powers invading Russia? 

I understand all your points about sphere of influence, but that's a simple question. Do you really think he's worried about an offensive war of NATO powers to conquer Russia?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 05:18:19 PM

Mexico does indeed have anti-aircraft missile capability.  We sold it to them.

This is a stupid analogy and anyone participating in it is acting stupidly and should feel bad about themselves.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 05:19:33 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 25, 2022, 05:06:48 PM

Stinger missiles are used to shoot down aircraft - if you were flying to a mexican resort,you'd have no problem with that?

I as a person have no say Im talking about one country vs another country

not saying it would be a good idea but its purely defensive

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 05:20:09 PM

Russians tend to be paranoid, and even paranoids have enemies.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 05:24:45 PM

IN A STOP last week on his way to Belgium for Monday’s NATO summit, President Joe Biden visited a Royal Air Force base in eastern England. “In Brussels,” he told the assembled crowd (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/06/09/remarks-by-president-biden-to-u-s-air-force-personnel-and-families-stationed-at-royal-air-force-mildenhall/), “I will make it clear that the United States’s commitment to our NATO alliance and Article 5 is rock solid. It’s a sacred obligation that we have under Article 5.”

These lines were aimed at a tiny number of human beings. Certainly almost no Americans have any idea what “Article 5” is part of or what it says.

But Biden’s words were genuinely significant. Article 5 is a clause in the North Atlantic Treaty, the founding document of NATO, which states that any armed attack against any member of the alliance “shall be considered an attack against them all.”

This is at the core of how the U.S. runs the world and intends to keep running it in the future. It also signifies that should we face the prospect of sharing power with others — today that mostly means China — we may end up destroying the world.

The North Atlantic Treaty is also known as the Washington Treaty, which tells you most of what you need to know about it. It was written in 1949, a time when U.S. power was so overweening that it could simply dictate terms to its allies. Most of whatever little discussion there was with other countries’ diplomats took place in secret over two weeks at the Pentagon. It was co-written by the delightfully-named Thomas Achilles, a State Department official who later said (https://www.trumanlibrary.gov/library/oral-histories/achilles) his boss had told him, “I don’t care whether entangling alliances have been considered worse than original sin ever since George Washington’s time. We’ve got to negotiate a military alliance with Western Europe in peacetime and we’ve got to do it quickly.”

The public rationale for NATO was that it was a defensive alliance necessary to stop the Soviet Union from invading Western Europe. The private rationale, as articulated by Achilles, was somewhat different:

Quote

At that point Western Europe was devastated, prostrate and demoralized and it badly needed confidence and energy within. With the Soviet armies halfway across Europe and still at their full wartime strength and the Communist parties the largest single political elements in France and Italy, something to inspire Soviet respect was equally essential.

Some top U.S. officials did honestly think that the Soviet Union was poised to stage a military attack. Whether that belief had any basis in reality is extremely debatable; about 27 million Russians, or 1 in every 6 people in the country, had just died in World War II. The equivalent for the U.S. today would be 50 million dead Americans. Even Joseph Stalin might have had a tough time motivating the country to immediately embark on another such event.

A more reasonable concern for the American government was a political, rather than military, threat. As Achilles said, there were powerful communist parties across Europe, especially in France and Italy — ones that could plausibly win honest elections. The anti-communist forces in those countries needed the “confidence and energy” of NATO to fight back. Meanwhile, NATO would “inspire Soviet respect” that would hopefully lessen Russian support, material and moral, for Europe’s communist parties.
Something else is notable about NATO’s founding. The original 12 members were Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, the U.K., and the U.S. — in hindsight, something of an all-star league of European colonialism. It’s difficult today not to notice the blindingly alabaster complexion (https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/declassified_137721.htm) of the officials who signed the treaty. The original version of the treaty even specifies that it applied to any attack on “the Algerian Departments of France.”

Quote

A fuller reading of history suggests that the formation of NATO helped intensify and institutionalize the Cold War.

In any case, the architects of NATO would say that they were simply responding to the Cold War, already in progress at the instigation of the Soviets. A fuller reading of history suggests that the formation of NATO helped intensify and institutionalize the Cold War. The Warsaw Pact, after all, was not created until 1955, six years later, and its text (https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/warsaw.asp) is in many ways a replica of that of NATO’s treaty. It even has its own Article 5 language, except it’s in Article 4.

The unstated logic of both NATO and the Warsaw Pact was also the same. Indeed, it’s identical to that of similar alliances for thousands of years going back to the Delian League (https://www.worldhistory.org/Delian_League/), founded in 478 B.C. and led by Athens. Providing protection is one key way for powerful countries to bind less powerful ones to them. The U.S. didn’t create NATO because we believed that we’d someday need Luxembourg’s military might to save us, nor did the Soviets come up with the Warsaw Pact because they felt that way about Albania. Rather, both superpowers knew that if they didn’t promise smaller countries protection, the smaller countries would feel compelled to protect themselves — which would lead to them wandering off on their own with their own foreign policies. That’s no way to run a sphere of influence.

NATO worked during the Cold War, both in the sense that there was no Soviet invasion and that the U.S. was able to corral Western Europe into following our instructions most of the time. A smattering of new countries joined during this period: Greece and Turkey in 1952, West Germany in 1955, and Spain in 1982.
Then came the dissolution of the Soviet Union, beginning in the late 1980s. If NATO’s champions were correct, it would have similarly been disbanded, its purported purpose now moot. But NATO’s more skeptical critics, who claimed that it was largely an aggressive instrument of U.S. power, have clearly been proven right by time.

As Mikhail Gorbachev attempted to peacefully dismantle the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact, he sought assurances from the U.S. that NATO would not expand into the areas the Soviets were vacating. James Baker, President George H.W. Bush’s secretary of state, told Gorbachev not once but three times (https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early) that wouldn’t happen. “Not an inch of NATO’s present military jurisdiction will spread in an eastern direction,” Baker promised (https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/dc.html?doc=4325680-Document-06-Record-of-conversation-between).

Quote

NATO’s goals have expanded along with its territory.

Instead, in 1999 NATO incorporated the Czech Republic, Poland, and Hungary, a big chunk of what had been the Warsaw Pact. Then in 2004 Bulgaria, Romania, and Slovakia, more of the Warsaw Pact, joined, along with Latvia and Lithuania, which had actually been part of the Soviet Union. Other Eastern European countries followed, bringing NATO’s current membership to 30.


NATO’s goals have expanded along with its territory. The U.S. has found it particularly useful as a way to create legitimacy for wars when the United Nations won’t authorize them, as with the bombing of Serbia in 1999 and Libya in 2011. In both cases, the American government pointed to NATO’s involvement as making the wars “multilateral” — that is, not unilateral acts by the U.S. — even though the U.S. provided the crucial firepower and neither war would have happened if America hadn’t wanted them to.

Russia has greeted these events with the same enthusiasm that the U.S. would if Mexico, Canada, and a newly independent Texas joined a Russian-led military alliance. Of particular concern to Russia is the possibility of Ukraine, another huge chunk of the former Soviet Union, becoming part of NATO.
NATO is also looking farther afield, to the entire planet. It just released “NATO 2030 (https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/2021/6/pdf/2106-factsheet-nato2030-en.pdf),” which describes an “an ambitious agenda to make sure NATO remains ready, strong and united for a new era of global competition. … NATO needs to adopt a more global approach to tackle global challenges to Atlantic security.” The head of NATO recently discussed this (https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Releases/Release/Article/2638738/readout-of-secretary-of-defense-lloyd-austins-call-with-nato-secretary-general/) need with Lloyd Austin, the new U.S. secretary of defense.

Oddly, it turns out that the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s “Atlantic security” now is largely about China, a country famously located on the Pacific. After Tuesday’s summit, NATO released its formal communiqué (https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_185000.htm?selectedLocale=en), which said, among other things, that “China’s stated ambitions and assertive behaviour present systemic challenges to the rules-based international order and to areas relevant to Alliance security.”
It now seems quite possible that NATO will accomplish in the near future what it did 70 years ago — that is, push countries outside it into their own alliance in what they perceive as necessary self-defense. Thus just as NATO helped create the Cold War then, it’s well on its way to creating a sequel now.

Ominously, there is essentially no discussion about this in the U.S. and Europe. As Biden said, the small number of elites who are involved in these discussions see NATO as “sacred.” Similarly, when advocating for the creation of NATO, then-British Foreign Secretary Ernest Bevin said (https://www.nytimes.com/1981/01/11/opinion/l-the-free-world-awaits-inspired-leadership-217244.html) it was necessary for “the salvation of the west.” As strange as it may seem for normal people, NATO is an institution of religious fervor for Western elites and therefore cannot be debated, any more than the Pope is open to debate about the Holy Trinity. And we all know how religions can lead to war.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 05:25:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 05:20:09 PM

Americans tend to be paranoid, and even paranoids have enemies. 

Fixed it for you. It's probably all the weed we smoke, and drugs we do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 05:27:08 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 05:13:14 PM

No such thing as a defensive weapon nor is there any such thing as a defensive military alliance, my dude. Think about it for a moment, it just doesn't make sense.

If Mexico or Canada tried joining a military alliance that was hostile to the US it would be game over. We'd wipe 'em out in 5 seconds flat.

well my chizel youre wrong

weapons which are fixed are very defensive

any military expert can look at the makeup of the military assets employed and quickly determine their intended use

if it were offensive there would be a lot of boots on the ground and paratroop aircraft

there would be long range missiles etc

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 05:29:39 PM

Being fixed in place doesn't guarantee it's defensive in nature, missile silos for example.  But a mine I'd consider defensive.  Fixed antiaircraft positions are defensive.  Most military equipment can be used on the offense of course, and defensive gear can enable the offensive thrust.

The Maginot Line was defensive, and it actually "worked" tactically.  It's fascinating to visit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 05:29:46 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 05:18:19 PM

Mexico does indeed have anti-aircraft missile capability.  We sold it to them.

This is a stupid analogy and anyone participating in it is acting stupidly and should feel bad about themselves.

hey we had to sit through all your jeep crap so you will have to sit through our crap

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 05:30:10 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 25, 2022, 05:16:57 PM

Do you think Putin is concerned about NATO powers invading Russia?

I understand all your points about sphere of influence, but that's a simple question. Do you really think he's worried about an offensive war of NATO powers to conquer Russia?

of course he's not worried about an invasion. russia has the most nuclear weapons in the entire world- because of this they are never going to be invaded. but there is no doubt that he is worried about being surrounded by a 30 member military alliance that is hostile to Russia- and having that hostile military alliance continually encroach on his borders and pick off his buffer zones and diminish his little slice of the world/sphere of influence. And said alliance is lead by the worlds most powerful military (US) which happens to also have the 2nd most nuclear weapons in the entire world and also happens to wage the most war of any country on earth in the last 5-6 decades. I do not believe that it is an unreasonable security concern of Russia's.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 05:32:13 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 05:29:46 PM

hey we had to sit through all your jeep crap so you will have to sit through our crap

:043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 05:36:39 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 05:29:46 PM

hey we had to sit through all your jeep crap so you will have to sit through our crap

maybe we could send @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) to talk to putin about jeeps. maybe that'd distract and confuse him. or would that be considered an act of war? :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 05:37:45 PM

dislike this YouTube channel for many reasons, but Greek politician/economist Yanis Varoufakis is one of the most brilliant people I've ever heard/read, and this is a great listen on the Ukraine crisis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqcpCGWoTA0

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 05:39:57 PM

I'll remind all of you jackwagons that it was CINCY that started the Jeep talk on this thread.

I suspect he was trying to respond to my posting of a weird crazy jacked-up Jeep on the Weird History thread but posted his response here by mistake.  Regardless, HE'S the one that started it, ya fargin bastages.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 05:42:11 PM

going off topic, @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) and @longhorn320 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=16) , bama baseball travels to longhorns this weekend. bama's a quite young team (1 sec start for the 3 projected starting pitchers this weekend) and has been hot opening this season, but longhorns are a powerhouse. hoping to steal 1 but not expecting it. either of you going? thought/expectations? is it omaha/title or bust for y'all this season?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 05:42:40 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 05:39:57 PM

I'll remind all of you jackwagons that it was CINCY that started the Jeep talk on this thread.

I suspect he was trying to respond to my posting of a weird crazy jacked-up Jeep on the Weird History thread but posted his response here by mistake.  Regardless, HE'S the one that started it, ya fargin bastages.

hey man, I personally think Jeeps are pretty god damn cool.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 05:47:36 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 05:39:57 PM

I'll remind all of you jackwagons that it was CINCY that started the Jeep talk on this thread.

I suspect he was trying to respond to my posting of a weird crazy jacked-up Jeep on the Weird History thread but posted his response here by mistake.  Regardless, HE'S the one that started it, ya fargin bastages.

cincy just likes to drop a random line and see what bites. hooked you big time with that one. 🎣


me too...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 05:48:12 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 05:42:11 PM

going off topic, @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) and @longhorn320 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=16) , bama baseball travels to longhorns this weekend. bama's a quite young team (1 sec start for the 3 projected starting pitchers this weekend) and has been hot opening this season, but longhorns are a powerhouse. hoping to steal 1 but not expecting it. either of you going? thought/expectations? is it omaha/title or bust for y'all this season?

Horns should be very good this year, Omaha-worthy once again for sure and honestly anything less would be disappointing.  I don't know much about your Tide beisbolers but I watch a lot of college baseball and most D1 teams from the South and West have at least one really good arm that can beat an opponent on the right day, so Alabama taking one wouldn't surprise me at all. 

It's going to be really cold for the series.  Like, currently 39 degrees in Austin and it will only get cooler into evening (game just started at 4:30).  And tomorrow high of 41 but drizzly.  Sunday should be better, high in the upper 50s and partly sunny.

I might make it out on Sunday, I'm definitely not going to be there today or tomorrow because I really, REALLY hate the cold.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 05:49:50 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 05:42:11 PM

going off topic, @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) and @longhorn320 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=16) , bama baseball travels to longhorns this weekend. bama's a quite young team (1 sec start for the 3 projected starting pitchers this weekend) and has been hot opening this season, but longhorns are a powerhouse. hoping to steal 1 but not expecting it. either of you going? thought/expectations? is it omaha/title or bust for y'all this season?

already set to record all 3 games this weekend

its cold but hey so is the beer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 05:50:38 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/y9bp9xM.png)

The numbers are less important than the delivery systems and their capabilities and intended uses.  Accuracy can be a factor, but "ease" of delivery and reliability are clearly facors in any nuclear exchange.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 05:51:13 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 05:39:57 PM

I'll remind all of you jackwagons that it was CINCY that started the Jeep talk on this thread.

I suspect he was trying to respond to my posting of a weird crazy jacked-up Jeep on the Weird History thread but posted his response here by mistake.  Regardless, HE'S the one that started it, ya fargin bastages.

Did not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 05:52:42 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 05:48:12 PM

Horns should be very good this year, Omaha-worthy once again for sure and honestly anything less would be disappointing.  I don't know much about your Tide beisbolers but I watch a lot of college baseball and most D1 teams have at least one really good arm that can beat an opponent on the right day, so Alabama taking one wouldn't surprise me at all. 

It's going to be really cold for the series.  Like, currently 39 degrees in Austin and it will only get cooler into evening (game just started at 4:30).  And tomorrow high of 41 but drizzly.  Sunday should be better, high in the upper 50s and partly sunny.

I might make it out on Sunday, I'm definitely not going to be there today or tomorrow because I really, REALLY hate the cold.

i usually don't pick up baseball until well into the season. i'll catch scores and whatnot, but not going or watching games until then. bama suffers from limited roster talent due to scholarship limit rules and our state's refusal to play the gambling game like most others do (politics, amiright?. we'll have a good team every 5-8 years, but not consistent. looking like this might be one of those years, but we'll see. long long way to go and this will be a good barometer of if we have a chance or not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 25, 2022, 05:53:38 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 04:42:12 PM

 Major powers like to have buffer zones and maintain spheres of influence. This is nothing new. The US doesn't try to maintain a sphere of influence over just a handful of bordering states- the US has said for almost 200 years now - the Western Hemisphere is OURS- half the entire f**king planet. OURS. F**k with us, find out. It's not unreasonable for Russia to not want further NATO incursion on their borders. At all.

Agreed.
But who is the failed geography scholar in the government that thought the Middle East was in the Western Hemisphere?!?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 05:55:06 PM

I continue to be amazed at all the protesting going on in Russia in many cities

I wonder if they will start freezing bank accounts like comrade Trudeau

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 25, 2022, 05:55:28 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 05:42:40 PM

hey man, I personally think Jeeps are pretty god damn cool.

Those Jeep trucks are plentiful here.  I prefer the 90s Cherokees and Grand Cherokees, personally.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 05:57:36 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 25, 2022, 05:53:38 PM

Agreed.
But who is the failed geography scholar in the government that thought the Middle East was in the Western Hemisphere?!?

cheney?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 05:57:57 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 05:55:06 PM

I continue to be amazed at all the protesting going on in Russia in many cities

I wonder if they will start freezing bank accounts like comrade Trudeau

It's one of the few uplifting scenes from the past few days, seeing the young Russians that don't buy into Putin's bullshit and are willing to go to jail for it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 05:58:30 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 05:55:06 PM

I continue to be amazed at all the protesting going on in Russia in many cities

I wonder if they will start freezing bank accounts like comrade Trudeau

Would be wonderful if it lead to Putin getting overthrown, but I highly doubt it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 06:01:09 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 05:58:30 PM

Would be wonderful if it lead to Putin getting overthrown, but I highly doubt it.

nope not likely but depending on how this invasion goes it might make him think twice before repeating it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 06:02:51 PM

saw somewhere that one of putin's daughters posted "stop the war" or somesuch on twitter or instagram, but was quickly taken down. maybe there is some dissension in the ranks.

edit, apparently it was daughter of spokesman for putin, not putin's daughter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 06:03:07 PM

It takes some real guts to protest in Russia obviously, I wouldn't do it now, but I'm old.

Putin might get forced out if this venture fails badly and causes severe repercussions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 06:05:20 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 05:50:38 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/y9bp9xM.png)

The numbers are less important than the delivery systems and their capabilities and intended uses.  Accuracy can be a factor, but "ease" of delivery and reliability are clearly facors in any nuclear exchange. 

man that would be beyond scary if Russia and US went to war and it went nuclear. Holy shit balls.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 06:06:45 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 25, 2022, 06:02:51 PM

saw somewhere that one of putin's daughters posted "stop the war" or somesuch on twitter or instagram, but was quickly taken down. maybe there is some dissension in the ranks.

edit, apparently it was daughter of spokesman for putin, not putin's daughter.

welp, that spokesman is a dead man. thanks daughter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 06:09:06 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 06:03:07 PM

It takes some real guts to protest in Russia obviously, I wouldn't do it now, but I'm old.

Putin might get forced out if this venture fails badly and causes severe repercussions.

probably only really high-ups in the military and oligarchs could get rid of him. if the invasion fails spectacularly military going to be pissed at him. if US/EU gets tough af on the sanctions and seizes assets and deports oligarchs, those dudes will be pissed at him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 06:09:29 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 06:06:45 PM

welp, that spokesman is a dead man. thanks daughter.

I'm okay with that.   Anyone working with or for Putin deserves death.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 06:09:57 PM

https://twitter.com/jamiewithorne/status/1497298330329751559?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497298330329751559%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fjamiewithorne%2Fstatus%2F1497298330329751559

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 06:13:53 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 06:09:57 PM

https://twitter.com/jamiewithorne/status/1497298330329751559?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497298330329751559%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fjamiewithorne%2Fstatus%2F1497298330329751559

nothing like the power of pussy. :043:

or in this case, fake pussy.

edit: that netflix documentary the tinder swindler by the way - freaking excellent. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 06:16:51 PM

https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1497334529056518148?s=20&t=bYXW_mzT-SHOxB4zj3jHUg

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1497340903643566091?s=20&t=bYXW_mzT-SHOxB4zj3jHUg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 07:14:27 PM

Northrop Grumman Building Six B-21 Raiders for U.S. Air Force | The National Interest (https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/northrop-grumman-building-six-b-21-raiders-us-air-force-200737)

(https://i.imgur.com/jETa2jt.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 25, 2022, 08:49:52 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 06:13:53 PM

nothing like the power of pussy. :043:

or in this case, fake pussy.

L-O-L-A..LOLA

Well, I'm not dumb but I can't understand
Why she walked like a woman (https://www.definitions.net/definition/woman) and talked like a man
Oh my Lola, lo lo lo lo Lola, lo lo lo lo Lola

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 25, 2022, 09:05:25 PM

I'm sure they're eager to show off the location of their units!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2022, 09:28:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 05:50:38 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/y9bp9xM.png)

The numbers are less important than the delivery systems and their capabilities and intended uses.  Accuracy can be a factor, but "ease" of delivery and reliability are clearly facors in any nuclear exchange. 

anything over 100 would be substantial

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2022, 09:31:10 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 06:05:20 PM

man that would be beyond scary if Russia and US went to war and it went nuclear. Holy shit balls.

that' why it won't happen

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2022, 09:33:18 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 06:16:51 PM

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1497340903643566091?s=20&t=bYXW_mzT-SHOxB4zj3jHUg

62% aren't snmart

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 25, 2022, 11:01:53 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 25, 2022, 09:33:18 PM

62% aren't snmart

98% aren't smart. Those 62% are just wrong on top of it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2022, 11:12:22 PM

George Carlin — 'Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.'

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 25, 2022, 11:53:14 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on February 25, 2022, 06:27:36 AM

Not the hero we wanted, but the hero we deserve

https://twitter.com/MxYxngRaspy/status/1497370623957516288?t=uRIN8SJkUYWRcV8Wmh6oLg&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 26, 2022, 12:31:18 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 25, 2022, 11:12:22 PM

George Carlin — 'Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.'

Median.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 26, 2022, 08:04:02 AM

George was dumbing it down for the average person

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 26, 2022, 08:05:15 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 25, 2022, 03:23:39 PM

Got a creepy crawly on your leg,good luck with therapy,when did you go under the knife

January 5.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 26, 2022, 08:10:58 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 25, 2022, 04:31:58 PM

https://twitter.com/Joyce_Karam/status/1497319619169763334?s=20&t=VFOOzaf-gCLC0GaMlUMXzg

I'm heading up to St. Pete tomorrow. I'll let everyone know how things are looking there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 26, 2022, 08:11:48 AM

the raft of sanctions on oligarchs announced by President Joe Biden this week in response to the invasion of Ukraine may do little to dim the jet-setting lifestyles of Russia’s ultra-rich and infamous – much less force a withdrawal of tanks and troops.

U.S. sanctions target Russian President Vladmir Putin and a handful of individuals believed to be among his closest security advisers, including Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov. But the list is just as notable for who isn’t on it — most of the top names from Forbes’ list of the richest Russians whose multi-billion-dollar fortunes are now largely intertwined with the West, from investments in Silicon Valley start-ups to British Premier League soccer teams.


Citing the concerns of European allies, the U.S. also didn’t impose what was seen as the harshest punishment at its disposal, banning Russia from SWIFT, the international financial system that banks use to move money around the world.

much of the wealth of Russia’s richest isn’t held in the sanctioned Russian banks. Putin and the oligarchs aligned with him have had decades to stash assets overseas, much of it hidden in ways specifically designed to avoid sanctions.

Though the Kremlin officially reports Putin’s income at $131,900 annually, the Russian president is believed to benefit from many billions in cash and overseas assets held by trusted friends and relatives, many of whom are from his home city of St. Petersburg.

A 2017 study of Russian oligarchs published by the U.S.-based National Economic Bureau estimated that as much as $800 billion is held by wealthy Russians in the United Kingdom, Switzerland, Cyprus, and similar offshore banking centers. That vast fortune, held by a few hundred ultra-rich individuals, is roughly equal to the wealth of the entire rest of the Russian population of 144 million people.


https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-ivanka-trump-joe-biden-sports-business-785172175d5ab4800e2a816b3ae2193d (https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-ivanka-trump-joe-biden-sports-business-785172175d5ab4800e2a816b3ae2193d)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 26, 2022, 08:15:33 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 26, 2022, 08:10:58 AM

I'm heading up to St. Pete tomorrow. I'll let everyone know how things are looking there.

Get yerself some..............

http://www.tedpetersfish.com/ (http://www.tedpetersfish.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 08:16:24 AM

Putin may lose even if he takes over Ukraine.  He would "have":

Control of a damaged country with a hostile population very difficult to control
Enmity from the West for a long time
A damaged military, and one effectively destroyed in a former ally
Sanctions, to the extent that hurts
Discord in Russia
Hopefully, motivation for Germany to really change its energy policies
Maybe even the US would as well

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 26, 2022, 08:34:50 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 25, 2022, 05:53:38 PM

Agreed.
But who is the failed geography scholar in the government that thought the Middle East was in the Western Hemisphere?!?

CIA-assisted coup overthrows government of Iran - HISTORY (https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/cia-assisted-coup-overthrows-government-of-iran)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 09:05:41 AM

Sad but not surprising.  When Russia behaves dangerously, Russians are in almost as much danger as anyone else.

https://twitter.com/ABarbashin/status/1497498675412709378?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497498675412709378%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fabarbashin%2Fstatus%2F1497498675412709378%3Fs%3D21

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 09:22:08 AM

Putin now needs a Quisling.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 09:31:20 AM

Remarks by Vice President Harris in Press Gaggle | The White House (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2022/02/20/remarks-by-vice-president-harris-in-press-gaggle-2/)

Q    But if Putin has made up his mind, do you feel that this threat that has been looming is really going to deter him?

THE VICE PRESIDENT:  Absolut- — we strongly believe — and remember also that the sanctions are a product not only of our perspective as the United States but a shared perspective among our Allies.  And the Allied relationship is such that we have agreed that the deterrence effect of these sanctions is still a meaningful one, especially because — remember, also — we still sincerely hope that there is a diplomatic path out of this moment. 

And within the context then of the fact that that window is still opening, altho- — open, although it is absolutely narrowing — but within the context of a diplomatic path still being open, the deterrence effect, we believe, has merit.


Blue cheese or thousand island?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 09:46:02 AM

I don't have a preference for political party, I largely disagree with the majority of policies from both of them at this point, but do you remember how the press used to lampoon and skewer George W whenever he'd day something that sounded stupid?  And Dan Quayle?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 26, 2022, 09:51:35 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 09:46:02 AM

I don't have a preference for political party, I largely disagree with the majority of policies from both of them at this point, but do you remember how the press used to lampoon and skewer George W whenever he'd day something that sounded stupid?  And Dan Quayle?

w had an entire cartoon tv show dedicated to poke fun at his gaffs. lil' bush. was actually fairly funny, if i remember correct.

3 of the last 4 have had several instances of speaking gaffs. obama, as much as i might disagree with him, was very well spoken and i don't remember any major ones from him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 26, 2022, 09:55:42 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 25, 2022, 05:48:12 PM

Horns should be very good this year, Omaha-worthy once again for sure and honestly anything less would be disappointing.  I don't know much about your Tide beisbolers but I watch a lot of college baseball and most D1 teams from the South and West have at least one really good arm that can beat an opponent on the right day, so Alabama taking one wouldn't surprise me at all. 

It's going to be really cold for the series.  Like, currently 39 degrees in Austin and it will only get cooler into evening (game just started at 4:30).  And tomorrow high of 41 but drizzly.  Sunday should be better, high in the upper 50s and partly sunny.

I might make it out on Sunday, I'm definitely not going to be there today or tomorrow because I really, REALLY hate the cold.

was a good game. i listened to some on my way home. seemed to be a pitchers duel at the time, and later half of game stats suggest it was all game. the horns dude was hitting tight spots in the corners its sounded like from radio.

bama went 0-10 with runners in score position. can't do that against most teams and expect to win, much less an omaha contender like horns.

here's to a good g2 and 3, and maybe split those. cheers:singing:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 26, 2022, 10:13:10 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 09:46:02 AM

I don't have a preference for political party, I largely disagree with the majority of policies from both of them at this point, but do you remember how the press used to lampoon and skewer George W whenever he'd day something that sounded stupid?  And Dan Quayle?

they had it coming
they earned it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 10:32:52 AM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 26, 2022, 09:55:42 AM

was a good game. i listened to some on my way home. seemed to be a pitchers duel at the time, and later half of game stats suggest it was all game. the horns dude was hitting tight spots in the corners its sounded like from radio.

bama went 0-10 with runners in score position. can't do that against most teams and expect to win, much less an omaha contender like horns.

here's to a good g2 and 3, and maybe split those. cheers:singing:

Yeah definitely a pitcher's duel for much of the game.  When the only score of the game comes unearned on a wild pitch, you know the game was tight.

Weather today should be especially foul so probably almost anything can happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 26, 2022, 10:34:02 AM

That's a term i haven't heard in a long while

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 08:16:24 AM

Hopefully, motivation for Germany to really change its energy policies
Maybe even the US would as well

Going with what is practical/obtainable rather than that which has proved problematic.At least at this point in time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 26, 2022, 10:37:21 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 09:22:08 AM

Putin now needs a Quisling.

You've been watching David Letterman reruns on YT?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 10:40:27 AM

Quote from: rolltidefan on February 26, 2022, 09:51:35 AM

w had an entire cartoon tv show dedicated to poke fun at his gaffs. lil' bush. was actually fairly funny, if i remember correct.

3 of the last 4 have had several instances of speaking gaffs. obama, as much as i might disagree with him, was very well spoken and i don't remember any major ones from him.

Obama had his flubs as well, which is kind of my point here-- we rarely heard about them. They weren't as noticeable as what we saw with W and nothing at all like the above blabbery by our VP, but there were always the comments from his fiercest opposition about him being the best "teleprompter president" ever and they'd go out of their way to note his gaffes every time he had to go off-script.  But since the MSM declined to roast him for it, it would die quickly each and every time.

Quote from: FearlessF on February 26, 2022, 10:13:10 AM

they had it coming
they earned it

I'm not sure what you mean by this?  If you're saying W and Quayle had the ridicule and mockery coming to them, then that's fine.  But that means Biden and Harris should have it coming equally, and yet the mediots treat them with kid gloves.  I'm just pointing out the double standard applied.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 10:41:24 AM

I don't watch Letterman at all.  I was just idly thinking that Putin could "declare victory" and claim some Ukrainian with the unlikely name of Honus Quisling was now President of the country.

I think he needs partial control of Kyiv first though, and for the current guy to be captured, leave the country, or "disappear".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 11:14:59 AM

As I noted earlier, one of the more interesting-- and admittedly, entertaining-- things I've followed about Russia's war against Ukraine, is the online/social media sparring.  This one is somewhat morbid, but effective, I think:

https://twitter.com/MFA_Ukraine/status/1497509017559699460?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497509017559699460%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmfa_ukraine%2Fstatus%2F1497509017559699460%3Fs%3D21

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 26, 2022, 11:26:39 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 11:14:59 AM

As I noted earlier, one of the more interesting-- and admittedly, entertaining-- things I've followed about Russia's war against Ukraine, is the online/social media sparring.  This one is somewhat morbid, but effective, I think:

https://twitter.com/MFA_Ukraine/status/1497509017559699460?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497509017559699460%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmfa_ukraine%2Fstatus%2F1497509017559699460%3Fs%3D21

I like it
hope its true

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on February 26, 2022, 11:27:02 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 09:05:41 AM

Sad but not surprising.  When Russia behaves dangerously, Russians are in almost as much danger as anyone else.

This can't be stated enough. Russians expend their population like no other nation in history. Either by the over 20 millions citizens killed during Stalin's reign, including my Great Grandmother dying in a labor camp outside of Murmansk. The countless millions ending up in the gulag system. The millions of Ukrainians starved to death by famine. Stalin's extermination of the peasant Kulak class. The millions of sons killed in endless wars. Everybody loses under Russian rule.

Look at what went on with this Russian Soldier below. He thinks his unit is embarking on a few exercises and next thing he knows he's ordered to invade by a psychopath with too much power. Let's remember the thousands of Russian sons who will needlessly die.

(The below account - @antiputler_news - is a steady stream of raw war footage. The tanks, transporters, and bodies of Russian Soldiers are really starting to pile up.)

https://twitter.com/TheLamb93505287/status/1497547455721885699

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 11:49:42 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 26, 2022, 11:26:39 AM

I like it
hope its true

I don't really believe their current claims of 3500+ Russian casualties, but there's tons of video out there of large columns of Russian armored divisions blown up and sitting in ruin.  Russia is sustaining heavy losses, there's no doubt about that.

Sadly it can't last and I fear what will be done to civilians, the angrier that disgusting murderous baby Putin becomes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 11:50:21 AM

https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1497570179026403329?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497570179026403329%7Ctwgr%5Ehb_0_8%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fchristogrozev%2Fstatus%2F1497570179026403329

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 11:56:08 AM

3,500 casualties sounds to me like a rational estimate after three days plus of fairly intense combat involving over 100,000 troops.  If Ukraine brought down a transport aircraft with 88 paratroopers on board ...

A tank has a crew of 4-5.  An APC would have 10-15 on board.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 26, 2022, 12:08:07 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 11:49:42 AM

I don't really believe their current claims of 3500+ Russian casualties, but there's tons of video out there of large columns of Russian armored divisions blown up and sitting in ruin.  Russia is sustaining heavy losses, there's no doubt about that.

Sadly it can't last and I fear what will be done to civilians, the angrier that disgusting murderous baby Putin becomes.

that's the thing with the red cross, if it's true we'll know soon enough.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 12:13:24 PM

Presuming they attacked with say 60,000 combat troops and have been engaged for three days now, and on the offensive so they can't really "dig in", they are exposed and apt to come under fire from those who were dug in .... 3,500 is not beyond the realm.  Ukraine would have their entire military in the field, plus some civilians, many no doubt with limited training and gear, but still, they could match the Russian numbers pretty easily.  Russian forces would have near superiority in the air and in artillery.

Morale?  No question on which side that would lie.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 12:43:12 PM

Russians have not established air superiority, in fact far from it.  That's what has been most puzzling to western military analysts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 26, 2022, 01:10:59 PM

interesting

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10554719/Russian-vodka-removed-shelves-Canadian-bars-liquor-stores.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 01:19:45 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 26, 2022, 01:10:59 PM

interesting

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10554719/Russian-vodka-removed-shelves-Canadian-bars-liquor-stores.html

I'm telling you, this is going to result in a large increase in Tito's purchased and consumed worldwide.

Heck, perhaps Tito himself is the mastermind behind it all????

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 01:30:52 PM

Ok Near superiority

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 01:33:40 PM

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1497635170609893376?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497635170609893376%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FKyivIndependent%2Fstatus%2F1497635170609893376

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 01:35:53 PM

If Putin's intention really was to limit NATO encroachment on his border, then he's miscaclulated.

Badly.

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1497637224883666951?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497637224883666951%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fnexta_tv%2Fstatus%2F1497637224883666951

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 26, 2022, 01:36:48 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 01:19:45 PM

I'm telling you, this is going to result in a large increase in Tito's purchased and consumed worldwide.

Heck, perhaps Tito himself is the mastermind behind it all????

had to look that up

didnt realize it was made in Austin

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 26, 2022, 01:37:57 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 01:35:53 PM

If Putin's intention really was to limit NATO encroachment on his border, then he's miscaclulated.

Badly.

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1497637224883666951?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497637224883666951%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fnexta_tv%2Fstatus%2F1497637224883666951

yep nobody trusts him not to attack because everyone thinks he must be crazy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 01:44:42 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 26, 2022, 01:36:48 PM

had to look that up

didnt realize it was made in Austin

Going back to 2001, Tito's was one of the very first sponsors of the charitable tailgate that I've run for over 20 years now.  I've hung out with him many times, we were the first and only tailgate party he sponsored at UT football games.  Now he's a billionaire and sponsors scores of tailgate parties around town, but we're the first ones and we were his "home" tailgate party for the first ten years or so.

He's a good guy who is heavily committed to charitable giving.  A really remarkable story of boot-strapping yourself to great success.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 26, 2022, 01:59:09 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 01:19:45 PM

I'm telling you, this is going to result in a large increase in Tito's purchased and consumed worldwide.

Heck, perhaps Tito himself is the mastermind behind it all????

Sure don't act like you're not tight with him.I was his regional promo man up here after you were bumping your gums in like '05 about the stuff.Haven't seen a ruble in tribute either.I'm gonna catch that fraud take him ice fishing and give him the manhole cover treatment if he doesn't pony up :character0029:
.With a name like Tito as in Josip Broz the Croat/Slovak leader who stood up to Stalin that should do alright in Europe.You're Vodka adled friend fell into a treasure trove

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 26, 2022, 02:06:10 PM

I remember in '79-'80 when the Soviets went into Afghanistan I was watching the Nightly World News. All over they were pouring out Vodka in protest into the storm sewers think it was in Chicago they showed some Tavern owner  pouring it out and he looked at the camera and said "I hope Scotland doesn't do anything stoopid"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 02:19:32 PM

Tito's is good stuff, I found the Kirkland brand to be about as good and cheaper, but I ain't drinkin' russian anything.

I surmise we're still importing their oil.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 02:45:49 PM

It is a bit amazing in a sense how "normal" everything is around here, as it was during our own wars, for most.  We just walked about town, it's a very nice day, had lunch at Farm Burger.

The hotel there with the "W" used to be a "W", now is a Curio, called Midtown Hotel, I told them to flip the W upside down.  The yellow building is apartments, very nice on the outside.

(https://i.imgur.com/oWvDJWY.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 02:47:13 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/NaycCbx.jpg)

This is the Four Seasons hotel, it also has condos in it, tres cher.  A tree near us is all flowering pink, no photo, a red bud I think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 02:48:39 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/EaNdJRE.png)

This is Ikon apt building with WF and Farm Burger inside.  Nice mural.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 02:49:53 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/OOYSecO.jpg)

More construction, it's everywhere, the odd thing is the low building was a funeral home and they are building around it leaving it as a restaurant, or something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 02:50:23 PM

I don't drink much vodka, but I figure Tito has directly given me several hundred dollars worth of his product over the past 20 years, and indirectly helped me raise over $100,000 for charity, so when I go to the store there's only one brand I'll walk away with.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 02:51:12 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/bn1OAX4.jpg)

Just across the street from the above is yet another apartment building going up, and just across the street and down is more student housing going up, that is a very popular thing around here, deluxe student apartments.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 02:53:10 PM

Russian cargo ship seized in the English Channel (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/26/russian-vessel-reportedly-seized-in-the-english-channel.html)

Russia's strategic weakness is access to sea lanes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 26, 2022, 02:55:48 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 25, 2022, 09:31:10 PM

that' why it won't happen

it's never happened, but that doesn't mean it won't. Mistakes, miscalculations, and accidents happen. And it's come close to happening. Came damn close in 1995. 

Probably one of the best documentary films I've ever seen, on nuclear weapons/war. Countdown to Zero.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js-CxhYO590

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 26, 2022, 02:57:12 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 02:53:10 PM

Russian cargo ship seized in the English Channel (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/26/russian-vessel-reportedly-seized-in-the-english-channel.html)

Russia's strategic weakness is access to sea lanes.

yeah and I believe literally their only warm water port is in Crimea, but even then Turkey could shut them out of the straits of Bosphorus. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 26, 2022, 03:00:50 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 25, 2022, 11:12:22 PM

George Carlin — 'Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.'

one of the GOATs. I've got Carlin, Pryor, Chappelle, and Louis CK on my Mt Rushmore.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 03:03:43 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 26, 2022, 02:57:12 PM

yeah and I believe literally their only warm water port is in Crimea, but even then Turkey could shut them out of the straits of Bosphorus.

Vladivostok.  Literally.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on February 26, 2022, 03:06:57 PM

It will be interesting if this whole thing backfired on Putin in that he exposes weaknesses in his military. Lack of air superiority etc. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 26, 2022, 03:15:35 PM

Quote from: Gigem on February 26, 2022, 03:06:57 PM

It will be interesting if this whole thing backfired on Putin in that he exposes weaknesses in his military. Lack of air superiority etc.

US defense budget? $778 billion. Russia? $61.7 billion.

China is 2nd place at $252 billion. No one else is over $100 billion. Just US and China. 3rd is India at $72.9 billion.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 03:18:23 PM

Photos from Ukraine: What it looks like after the Russian invasion : The Picture Show : NPR (https://www.npr.org/sections/pictureshow/2022/02/24/1082795427/photos-show-the-calamity-as-russia-invades-ukraine)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 26, 2022, 03:21:56 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 01:35:53 PM

If Putin's intention really was to limit NATO encroachment on his border, then he's miscaclulated.

Badly.

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1497637224883666951?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497637224883666951%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fnexta_tv%2Fstatus%2F1497637224883666951

well, thankfully it's not up to "the people" who does and doesn't get into a military alliance that is largely controlled by the United States. No country has a right to join NATO. Foreign policy decisions are made by (usually) elected heads of state and their unelected advisors and other unelected bureaucrats. I doubt the US will be looking to expand NATO any time soon after this whole Ukraine episode, and quite honestly we do have some blame in this shitshow.

Don't get me wrong the illegal invasion and death and destruction going on right now and all the lives lost and blood split is solely on the hands of Vladimir Putin, but the US could've taken actual steps to prevent this, and we should've never been trying to add Ukraine to NATO since 2008, nor meddling with that countries government and internal affairs. 

Expanding NATO will just lead to more war and more death imo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 26, 2022, 03:30:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 08:16:24 AM

Putin may lose even if he takes over Ukraine.  He would "have":

Control of a damaged country with a hostile population very difficult to control
Enmity from the West for a long time
A damaged military, and one effectively destroyed in a former ally
Sanctions, to the extent that hurts
Discord in Russia
Hopefully, motivation for Germany to really change its energy policies
Maybe even the US would as well

Never going to happen. Germany and all of Western Europe is still buying Russian gas and oil as we speak. Western Europe is also vehemently against removing Russia from SWIFT. 

US LNG is 40-50% more expensive than Russian gas- and this doesn't take into account the cost of the infrastructure to actually be able to import the gas and use it.

Germany changing it's energy policies hurts Germany- and it only helps the US- who they'd be buying most of their LNG from.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 26, 2022, 03:32:33 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 26, 2022, 08:34:50 AM

CIA-assisted coup overthrows government of Iran - HISTORY (https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/cia-assisted-coup-overthrows-government-of-iran)

US still at it baby! Overthrowing democratically elected governments like it's our god given right! Ukraine 2014 says heyyyyyyyyy hayyyyyy heyyyyyy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 03:34:44 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 26, 2022, 03:30:34 PM

Never going to happen. Germany and all of Western Europe is still buying Russian gas and oil as we speak. Western Europe is also vehemently against removing Russia from SWIFT.

US LNG is 40-50% more expensive than Russian gas- and this doesn't take into account the cost of the infrastructure to actually be able to import the gas and use it.

Germany changing it's energy policies hurts Germany- and it only helps the US- who they'd be buying most of their LNG from.

Russia is being disconnected from SWIFT as we type, thank goodness.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 26, 2022, 03:36:21 PM

turns out the whole Ghost of Kyiv and Snake Island "f**k you russian warship!" thing - not true.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 26, 2022, 03:39:01 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 03:34:44 PM

Russia is being disconnected from SWIFT as we type, thank goodness.

last I saw it was being discussed, but not done- with Germany being strongly against it. this must literally be breaking news. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 03:41:23 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 26, 2022, 03:39:01 PM

last I saw it was being discussed, but not done- with Germany being strongly against it. this must literally be breaking news.

Yup literally breaking, and Germany had agreed a couple of days ago.  The last holdouts were Italy, Hungary, and reportedly Cyprus although that turned out to not be true. 

Well, also, the US was hesitant, because our government is full of dipshits and pussies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 26, 2022, 03:59:21 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 03:34:44 PM

Russia is being disconnected from SWIFT as we type, thank goodness.

Good. 

Also, narratively their army tripping over it's own dick would be a comical outcome. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 26, 2022, 04:01:15 PM

Big, yuge, round of applause for white men and Russia

https://twitter.com/BenLorber8/status/1497407269587206144?t=tzwrldqlr0ofZKVLU6uzBw&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 04:07:23 PM

Gross. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 26, 2022, 04:10:07 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 04:07:23 PM

Gross.

Time to jettison those from the party who are simply having a moment

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 26, 2022, 04:23:09 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 26, 2022, 03:59:21 PM

Good.

Also, narratively their army tripping over it's own dick would be a comical outcome.

little early to say that. took the US over 3 weeks to take Baghdad and that was considered lighting speed. Just because Russia hasn't taken Kyiv - a huge city - in 3 days doesn't mean they won't eventually take it.

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1497655519821148171?s=20&t=9efvPPNjtOggk5DR0yzAUA

https://twitter.com/Vermeullarmine/status/1497647189811732480?s=20&t=9efvPPNjtOggk5DR0yzAUA

https://twitter.com/MrMaitra/status/1497646279240949766?s=20&t=9efvPPNjtOggk5DR0yzAUA

https://twitter.com/MrMaitra/status/1497645447447523335?s=20&t=9efvPPNjtOggk5DR0yzAUA

https://twitter.com/MrMaitra/status/1497655754681061376?s=20&t=9efvPPNjtOggk5DR0yzAUA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 26, 2022, 04:31:54 PM

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMg0eE5WQAM_yZL?format=jpg&name=large)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 26, 2022, 04:37:49 PM

this is easily one of the dumbest politicians in America....nice to see him getting called out.



https://twitter.com/ShidelerK/status/1497373787054088205?s=20&t=T4-O9y3MUJuJ1qJeWu6edQ


https://twitter.com/TimOnPoint/status/1497374192106455047?s=20&t=T4-O9y3MUJuJ1qJeWu6edQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 26, 2022, 04:47:30 PM

I mean is the only choice well meaning idiots or traitors?

Seems like it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 04:49:03 PM

Quote from: ELA on February 26, 2022, 04:47:30 PM

I mean is the only choice well meaning idiots or traitors?

Seems like it

Yup, seems like it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 26, 2022, 04:59:16 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 04:49:03 PM

Yup, seems like it.

In fairness.  That's trying to staff every project at work.  You can pick from a bunch of dumb try hards, or smart guys who are definitely trying to undermine you.  Granted they aren't actively rooting for Russia.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 05:17:23 PM

https://twitter.com/phildstewart/status/1497694164217208835?s=20&t=8F-HXv5Q6J3zCQh1h8BYSA

https://twitter.com/jeneps/status/1497694659342213127?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497694659342213127%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fjeneps%2Fstatus%2F1497694659342213127%3Fs%3D21

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 05:26:27 PM

Like I said, I'm starting to think my old pal Tito might be the mastermind behind it all...

https://twitter.com/GovMikeDeWine/status/1497677616618381319?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497677616618381319%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FGovMikeDeWine%2Fstatus%2F1497677616618381319%3Fs%3D2026t%3D0hvxN0H0Wi0Zw63gjgcZuA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 26, 2022, 05:39:38 PM

Quote from: ELA on February 26, 2022, 04:47:30 PM

I mean is the only choice well meaning idiots or traitors?

Seems like it

that guy isn't a well meaning idiot, he knows full well what he's saying. he's a warmonger. it had to have occurred to him that what he is publicly pushing for is an act of war against Russia- which would lead to escalation and possibly freaking start WWIII. Yeah, great idea, pal!

I fail to see how anyone could be labeled a traitor. That's just some stupid media bullsh*t. The United States is not at war with Russia. Nor is Ukraine a party to NATO, NORAD, or ANZUS treaties. Ukraine is not an ally of the United States. Partner, sure. Effective US colony post the US helping to overthrow a democratically elected government in 2014, sure. Ally, no.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 26, 2022, 05:41:47 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 26, 2022, 02:57:12 PM

yeah and I believe literally their only warm water port is in Crimea, but even then Turkey could shut them out of the straits of Bosphorus.

You really believe that?They're not flying sorties against Kurdish Rebels

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 26, 2022, 05:43:06 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 05:17:23 PM

https://twitter.com/phildstewart/status/1497694164217208835?s=20&t=8F-HXv5Q6J3zCQh1h8BYSA

https://twitter.com/jeneps/status/1497694659342213127?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497694659342213127%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fjeneps%2Fstatus%2F1497694659342213127%3Fs%3D21

now will Germany, Italy, and the rest of Western Europe stop buying Russian oil & gas? Doubtful.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 05:46:52 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 26, 2022, 05:43:06 PM

now will Germany, Italy, and the rest of Western Europe stop buying Russian oil & gas? Doubtful.

They certainly haven't agreed to that yet, and I agree they're not likely to do so.

This is why the language specifically says that SWIFT access has been cut to certain banks and financial institutions in Russian, rather than ALL of them.  They intentionally didn't cut access to the ones they use to pay Russia for the gas.

I want the US and all of Europe to stop purchasing Russian oil immediately, but of course I'm not the King of the West, sadly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 26, 2022, 05:50:07 PM

Fetch me some Tito's i'll see what i can do

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 26, 2022, 05:53:35 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 26, 2022, 03:00:50 PM

one of the GOATs. I've got Carlin, Pryor, Chappelle, and Louis CK on my Mt Rushmore.

Louis is nowhere near Rushmore level. Too much of his comedy is saying horrible stuff for shock value. It can be funny, but I feel like too often it's just low hanging fruit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 26, 2022, 05:57:19 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 26, 2022, 05:53:35 PM

Louis is nowhere near Rushmore level. Too much of his comedy is saying horrible stuff for shock value. It can be funny, but I feel like too often it's just low hanging fruit.

Louis CK? I don't know about Mount Rushmore, but I never thought of him as a shock comedian. His sexual interests, OTOH...

His show was really good, too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 06:02:25 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 26, 2022, 05:41:47 PM

You really believe that?They're not flying sorties against Kurdish Rebels

Turkey could and might close the Straits.  They are a NATO country.  They have pretty decent military capabilities.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 06:02:48 PM

As for gas and oil, you're asking an addict to go cold turkey, won't happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 06:04:33 PM

Tiny living machines called xenobots can create copies of themselves | Science News (https://www.sciencenews.org/article/tiny-living-machines-xenobots-replicate-copies-frog-cells)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 26, 2022, 06:05:14 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 26, 2022, 05:53:35 PM

Louis is nowhere near Rushmore level. Too much of his comedy is saying horrible stuff for shock value. It can be funny, but I feel like too often it's just low hanging fruit.

Greg Giraldo RIP,not sure you can leave Dangerfield off that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 26, 2022, 06:07:11 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 06:02:25 PM

Turkey could and might close the Straits.  They are a NATO country.  They have pretty decent military capabilities.

If everyone went all in perhaps with wavering i would not bet on it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 06:08:55 PM

I doubt they will at this point, but they could, they have the capability.

WIFT stands for the Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication. It is a global messaging system connecting thousands of financial institutions around the world.  

SWIFT was formed in 1973, and it is headquartered in Belgium. It is overseen by the National Bank of Belgium, in addition to the U.S. Federal Reserve System, the European Central Bank and others, NBC News reported. (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/swift-banking-system-used-sanction-russia-rcna17533) It connects more than 11,000 financial institutions in more than 200 countries and territories worldwide so banks can be informed about transactions. 
Alexandra Vacroux, executive director of the Davis Center for Russian and Eurasian Studies at Harvard University, told NPR (https://www.npr.org/2022/02/24/1082926832/russia-faces-the-nuclear-option-of-being-ousted-from-the-swift-banking-system), "It doesn't move the money, but it moves the information about the money." 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 26, 2022, 06:19:08 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 26, 2022, 06:05:14 PM

Greg Giraldo RIP,not sure you can leave Dangerfield off that

Giraldo was awesome. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 26, 2022, 06:20:32 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on February 26, 2022, 05:57:19 PM

Louis CK? I don't know about Mount Rushmore, but I never thought of him as a shock comedian. His sexual interests, OTOH...

His show was really good, too.

Not a shock guy like Anthony Jeselnik. As in deliberately offensive. Just crude, without enough behind it 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 26, 2022, 08:43:07 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 26, 2022, 05:53:35 PM

Louis is nowhere near Rushmore level. Too much of his comedy is saying horrible stuff for shock value. It can be funny, but I feel like too often it's just low hanging fruit.

I'd disagree with that. His stuff was pretty incisive, though it did leverage shocking things. (I don't know if he was Rushmore level. There have been so many comics, and Pryor and Carlin are probably taking half of the mount, before you even look at someone like Lenny Bruce or anyone else)

Which of course meant that he was smart enough to be aware of the dynamics of his weird sex stuff, and did it anyway. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 26, 2022, 08:49:07 PM

He got accused of plagiarizing this but it was still pretty great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-XuT5qKt00

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 26, 2022, 09:16:24 PM

Norm MacDonald was good to - use to catch him on letterman.Act all out of it then bring some brilliant/hillarious quip out of nowhere.Was watching a roundtable with Dennis Miller,Dana Carvey and a few who worked with him.Norm seem to revel/relish in bombing out then do an about face and bring the house down.Conan liked him also,Giraldo's humor very blue but sharp/clever

https://youtu.be/zlC9oU79Tew

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2022, 09:40:54 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 26, 2022, 05:53:35 PM

Louis is nowhere near Rushmore level. Too much of his comedy is saying horrible stuff for shock value. It can be funny, but I feel like too often it's just low hanging fruit.

Uhh, he's Rushmore level for mdot.

Let's not pretend an opinion thing is a fact thing.  Thanks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2022, 09:41:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 06:02:25 PM

Turkey could and might close the Straits.  They are a NATO country.  They have pretty decent military capabilities.

That would be one way to ratchet things up to 11, real quick.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 09:46:11 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2022, 09:41:53 PM

That would be one way to ratchet things up to 11, real quick.

The inept doofuses in the Russian navy have already hit several commercial vessels of various flags that are not Ukraine.  The ratcheting has already occurred and arguably they've already instigated WWIII.

Honestly, Turkey closing the straits might actually help SAVE the Russians from doing more stupid shit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 11:08:48 PM

I'm not sure Russia at this point could respond if Turkey closed the straits, at least not effectively.  Turkey is a bit more capable than Ukraine, by quite a bit, and then there is Article 5 to consider.  I don't know if the Russian navy needs to transit right now anyway unless they are headed home.

Anyway, it's just one of many possibilities, not one I'd suggest at this point.

I am curious how the US expects to get military supplies to Ukraine, via Poland on the ground?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2022, 11:23:35 PM

I assumed they'd be sending munitions in Amazon boxes....slip right in there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 26, 2022, 11:28:23 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 26, 2022, 11:08:48 PM

I'm not sure Russia at this point could respond if Turkey closed the straits, at least not effectively.  Turkey is a bit more capable than Ukraine, by quite a bit, and then there is Article 5 to consider.  I don't know if the Russian navy needs to transit right now anyway unless they are headed home.

Anyway, it's just one of many possibilities, not one I'd suggest at this point.

I am curious how the US expects to get military supplies to Ukraine, via Poland on the ground? 

draft 1000 doordash delivery guys

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 11:31:52 PM

Gotta watch out for those porch pirates.  Don't want them sneaking off with $350 million worth of small arms and body armor.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2022, 11:32:29 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 26, 2022, 11:28:23 PM

draft 1000 doordash delivery guys

Great minds think alike....and so do ours.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 27, 2022, 12:28:03 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 09:46:11 PM

The inept doofuses in the Russian navy have already hit several commercial vessels of various flags that are not Ukraine.  The ratcheting has already occurred and arguably they've already instigated WWIII.

Honestly, Turkey closing the straits might actually help SAVE the Russians from doing more stupid shit.

This.  As much as we here all HATE war, and death and destruction and families being ripped apart - and we do not want our own country to get involved…we have to watch carefully. 

This is still an unprovoked attack and invasion of one nation on another- by an unstable leader who clearly fells emboldened. 

If this continues beyond what we are seeing and spreads - which is not an unrealistic possibility- a completely different strategy may be unavoidable.  A real line in the sand might have to be drawn, otherwise there will be no reason for the unstable leader to stop.

I would hope, and assume that the leaders of this country and its closest allies are already preparing for that and are committed to where and what that line is.    This makes me very nervous-  it seems like a far away place to us here, and hopefully it settles down from its current level.  But it could easily explode into something bigger. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 27, 2022, 12:38:40 AM

Quote

That to expect bad people not to injure others is crazy. It's to ask the impossible. And to let them behave like that to other people but expect them to exempt you is arrogant--the act of a tyrant.

Marcus Aurelius, Meditations (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/30659.Meditations)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on February 27, 2022, 01:36:25 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 26, 2022, 05:53:35 PM

Louis is nowhere near Rushmore level. Too much of his comedy is saying horrible stuff for shock value. It can be funny, but I feel like too often it's just low hanging fruit.

Don’t know about shock value but he ain’t close to Rushmore level. For me anyway. 

carlin, Pryor, robin williams, Chappelle, dangerfield, Eddie Murphy, McDonald, Steve Martin, Mitch hedberg are all above him. I’d even argue guys like Kaufman, Patton oswalt, Chris rock and Seinfeld too. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 27, 2022, 07:25:32 AM

https://messaging-custom-newsletters.nytimes.com/template/oakv2?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20220227&instance_id=54410&nl=the-morning&productCode=NN&regi_id=128288609&segment_id=84098&te=1&uri=nyt%3A%2F%2Fnewsletter%2F84c54c4e-a3c6-5372-9f16-5bd150be0daf&user_id=7a7718c7ec99c20c2a9f1844281938fd

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 27, 2022, 07:32:19 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2022, 11:23:35 PM

I assumed they'd be sending munitions in Amazon boxes....slip right in there.

Sure you can try that but if they pull it off Their people unionize and the far right is never on board for that.Could cut into the billions a piece they are already raking in

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 27, 2022, 07:35:06 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 26, 2022, 11:32:29 PM

Great minds think alike....and so do ours.

Let's not pretend an opinion thing is a fact thing.  Thanks. 😆

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 27, 2022, 07:48:49 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 27, 2022, 12:38:40 AM

Marcus Aurelius, Meditations (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/30659.Meditations)

I don't find the mases being good at walking the walk of stoic philosophy, lol.  Agree with it?  Sure.  Sounds good?  Yeah!  Actually living that life......errrr no.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 27, 2022, 07:56:00 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 27, 2022, 07:48:49 AM

I don't find the mases being good at walking the walk of stoic philosophy, lol.  Agree with it?  Sure.  Sounds good?  Yeah!  Actually living that life......errrr no.

Agree.   still, some of the concepts within the Stoic give, at the very least, a perspective to consider. This one is an example for our current world situation-  - don’t you agree?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 27, 2022, 08:33:10 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 26, 2022, 03:15:35 PM

US defense budget? $778 billion. Russia? $61.7 billion.

China is 2nd place at $252 billion. No one else is over $100 billion. Just US and China. 3rd is India at $72.9 billion.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

$50 for a hammer. $150 for a toilet seat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 08:42:49 AM

The reason our basic gear costs so much is that the DoD specifies certain attributes for said hammer, and the testing costs money.  There is for example f JANAF test for certain things, and it's expensive, so your "hammer" has to pass those tests, and if it doesn't you need to make a special batch that does.

(JANAF relates to something different, same same.)

They don't buy a batch of off the shelf hammers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 27, 2022, 08:49:21 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 27, 2022, 07:56:00 AM

Agree.  still, some of the concepts within the Stoic give, at the very least, a perspective to consider. This one is an example for our current world situation-  - don’t you agree?

Sure.  We're very much arrogant tyrants on the world stage.  We're the John Cena character on SS - we love peace and we don't care how many people have to die to achieve it.

Imagine growing up in Egypt or the Philippines or Denmark and learning about the US's military might.  The bases all over the world.  Having 10 of the 11.5 aircraft carriers on the planet.  The defense budget that's higher than the next 7 or 10 or 12 countries combined. 
And our recent history of invading and country-building and having nukes and telling other countries they can't have any, etc.

And to think - that same country may change its leader (and its ideology) every 4 years......that would frighten the shit out of me. 

I mean, how many countries are only allied with us because being a friend is safer and more responsible than being apathetic (not even a foe)?  On our end, we think, great, who cares why, at least they're with us.  But looking at it from their side, it's awful.  They're friends with the bully just to avoid getting beaten up.  That's no friendship.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 27, 2022, 09:37:07 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 27, 2022, 08:33:10 AM

$50 for a hammer. $150 for a toilet seat.

Guys like BushII and Cheney hide behind this crap

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 09:41:43 AM

Hard 180 from Germany.  I think they were probably projecting their own mercantilism onto Russia, which is simply wishful thinking because Putin thinks of everything as a weapon.

https://twitter.com/yanpal7/status/1497882261789761537?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497888417958432769%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FOsinttechnical%2Fstatus%2F1497888417958432769%3Fs%3D2026t%3DiPVPmv7BxFxU5Om5DDlaJQ

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1497887510697021440?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497887510697021440%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FOsinttechnical%2Fstatus%2F1497887510697021440%3Fs%3D2026t%3DiPVPmv7BxFxU5Om5DDlaJQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 27, 2022, 10:14:20 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 08:42:49 AM

The reason our basic gear costs so much is that the DoD specifies certain attributes for said hammer, and the testing costs money.  There is for example f JANAF test for certain things, and it's expensive, so your "hammer" has to pass those tests, and if it doesn't you need to make a special batch that does.

(JANAF relates to something different, same same.)

They don't buy a batch of off the shelf hammers.

but, they should

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 10:16:09 AM

Turkey has entered the chat.  In times of war, the Montreux  Accord provides for Turkey to shut down passage through the straits to any and all military vessels of countries engaged in that war.

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1497950707202375684?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497950707202375684%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fvisegrad24%2Fstatus%2F1497950707202375684%3Fs%3D21

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 27, 2022, 10:34:14 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 10:16:09 AM

Turkey has entered the chat.  In times of war, the Montreux  Accord provides for Turkey to shut down passage through the straits to any and all military vessels of countries engaged in that war.

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1497950707202375684?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497950707202375684%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fvisegrad24%2Fstatus%2F1497950707202375684%3Fs%3D21

All but his most loyal puppets are jumping ship.  This has backfired spectacularly, no matter the result of the invasion.  The long term damage is not going to be worth it

https://twitter.com/NicholasVinocur/status/1497847168371240964?s=20&t=KXaivJ6UYZezSc-x_0F2Qg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 10:36:36 AM

Putin is in a lose-lose even if he somehow "wins" and takes Ukraine.  I don't see any upside.  I look for the Russian PTBs to begin the process.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 27, 2022, 10:37:24 AM

My saying the closing of the straits moves things up to an 11 included fuel tankers coming and going.  Military-only wouldn't include those, I don't think.  Idk.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 10:45:03 AM

Russia invades Ukraine live updates | NPR (https://www.npr.org/live-updates/russia-invades-ukraine-live-updates#ukrainian-and-russian-negotiators-agree-to-hold-talks-in-belarus)

DIPLOMACY
Ukrainian and Russian negotiators agree to hold talks in Belarus

Link Copied

By Staff reports (https://www.npr.org/people/staff-reports)
Posted an hour ago

• Twitter (https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.npr.org%2Flive-updates%2Frussia-invades-ukraine-live-updates%23ukrainian-and-russian-negotiators-agree-to-hold-talks-in-belarus&text=Ukrainian and Russian negotiators agree to hold talks in Belarus)
• LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/shareArticle?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.npr.org%2Flive-updates%2Frussia-invades-ukraine-live-updates%23ukrainian-and-russian-negotiators-agree-to-hold-talks-in-belarus&mini=true&title=Ukrainian and Russian negotiators agree to hold talks in)
• Email (?body=Ukrainian%20and%20Russian%20negotiators%20agree%20to%20hold%20talks%20in%20Belarus%0A%0Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.npr.org%2Flive-updates%2Frussia-invades-ukraine-live-updates%23ukrainian-and-russian-negotiators-agree-to-hold-talks-in-belarus%0A%0AThe%20office%20of%20Ukrainian%20President%20Volodymyr%20Zelensky%20said%20in%20a%20message%20on%20the%20Telegram%20app%20that%20a%20delegation%20of%20the%20Ukrainian%20government%20will%20meet%20Russian%E2%80%A6)

The office of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said in a message on the Telegram app that a delegation of the Ukrainian government will meet Russian officials near the Pripyat River in Belarus.
Russia had earlier proposed holding talks in Gomel, a Belarussian city near the border with Ukraine.
The Ukrainian response did not specify when the meeting would take place.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 10:46:58 AM

The Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits is a 1936 agreement that gives Turkey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey) control over the Bosporus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosporus) and Dardanelles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardanelles) Straits (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strait) and regulates the transit of naval warships. The Convention guarantees the free passage of civilian vessels in peacetime, and restricts the passage of naval ships not belonging to Black Sea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea) states. The terms of the Convention have been a source of controversy over the years, most notably about the Soviet Union (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union)'s military (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Armed_Forces) access to the Mediterranean Sea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Sea).[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]

Signed on 20 July 1936 at the Montreux Palace (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Palace) in Switzerland,[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Straits#cite_note-1) the Convention permitted Turkey to remilitarise the Straits. It went into effect on 9 November 1936 and was registered in the League of Nations Treaty Series (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Nations_Treaty_Series) on 11 December 1936.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Straits#cite_note-2) It remains in force.

The long proposed 21st century Kanal Istanbul (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanal_Istanbul) (Istanbul Canal) project may circumvent the Montreux Convention and allow greater Turkish autonomy with respect to the passage of military ships (which are limited in number, tonnage, and weaponry) from the Black Sea to the Sea of Marmara (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_of_Marmara). The Kanal project involves building a 45 km (28 mi) long artificial waterway through Thrace (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrace), connecting the Sea of Marmara (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_of_Marmara) with the Black Sea.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Straits#cite_note-3) While this route will run nearly parallel to the Bosporus, ships transiting it are arguably not subject to the terms of the Montreux Convention.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Straits#cite_note-4) Currently shipping traffic through the Dardanelles is heavily congested, with long wait times to pass through the Bosporus. The Kanal project‘s primary purpose is to clear up shipping traffic and boost revenue by providing an alternate maritime route.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] However, the Kanal’s potential ability to end nearly a century of limitations imposed by the Montreux regime was never overlooked by both commentators and politicians, and in January 2018, then Turkish Prime Minister and former Transport Minister (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Transport_and_Infrastructure_(Turkey)) Binali Yıldırım (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binali_Yıldırım) announced that the Kanal would in fact not be subject to the Montreux Convention.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Straits#cite_note-:0-5) This announcement was received negatively by the Russian media and government and many have disputed the Turkish government‘s interpretation of the convention‘s original terms.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Straits#cite_note-6)[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Straits#cite_note-7)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 27, 2022, 10:47:16 AM

Belarus, as Russia's toady, isn't going to come out of this well, either.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on February 27, 2022, 10:52:27 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 26, 2022, 12:43:12 PM

Russians have not established air superiority, in fact far from it.  That's what has been most puzzling to western military analysts.

Day 4 of Russia’s invasion into Ukraine and Russian Forces still do not have air superiority or control of the internet, military comms systems, major airports, large power plants, or any major urban center.

The situation on the ground (not to mention internationally) is unraveling pretty quickly for Putin.

Many raw photos and videos are indicating the bodies of killed Russian soldiers, destroyed/burned/abandoned tanks and convoy vehicles, and captured Russian soldiers, often disoriented and apologetic. A surprise given how many recent war victories Putin’s Forces have strung together and proven themselves an adept occupying force – 2008 Georgia, 2014 Crimea, and Syria’s Civil War. But in the case of Ukraine it’s worth wondering whether the unwillingness of their own military is contributing to what is turning into a dead mission.

A number of captured Russian soldiers are younger than Redshirt Freshman and didn’t realize they were activated to invade Ukraine until their supposed exercises turned into orders to breach the Ukrainian borders. Numerous raw videos indicate this:

-A young captured Russian soldier sobbing on the front steps while Ukrainian Villagers question why he’s here. He honestly didn’t expect to be deployed into Ukraine. When villagers hand him a phone to call his family he only has his grandmother to phone.

-Another young Russian soldier pulled from a tank along with his comrade is handed a phone to call his Dad, who has no idea where he left to or that he was sent to invade Ukraine.

-A pair of shirtless Russian infantry men seated on a staircase inside someone's living room explaining to villagers they don't know why the came. That at the borders their Russian superiors took their documents and their phones and ordered them straight ahead.

-Ukrainian villagers approaching stalled Russian conveys and conversing with soldiers who didn’t know why they were sent to Ukraine and had run out of gas. (Another talking point is how poorly executed Russia’s logistics for this invasion have been.)

Putin isn’t going to occupy a nearby nation with such uncommitted military personnel.

https://twitter.com/ECampbell360/status/1497670938720182277

https://twitter.com/iamsuffian/status/1497772681952837634

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 11:01:15 AM

Excellent tactic to allow them to call home, and if unarmed civilians approach some of these rear area troops, they will probably have a conversation.

Logistics is always a key in organized warfare.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 11:03:23 AM

Well, let's think about how one could significantly bomb Moscow or Beijing with conventional weapons.  First, you'd need heavy bombers, B-52s in fact, that can tote 60,000 pounds of bombs long distance.  OK, repeated B-52 sorties would significantly damage even a large city, no doubt.

I wonder if OAM can spot an issue with this scenario?  Issues plural.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 27, 2022, 11:16:36 AM

I'm not wondering

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 27, 2022, 11:25:48 AM

The fact that the Russians want to meet for talks speaks volumes on just how bad Russia is doing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 11:26:08 AM

Quote from: ELA on February 27, 2022, 10:34:14 AM

All but his most loyal puppets are jumping ship.  This has backfired spectacularly, no matter the result of the invasion.  The long term damage is not going to be worth it

Yup.  EU sentiment against him has skyrocketed in less than a week.


https://twitter.com/KyivPost/status/1497947330770841604?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497947501000802309%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fa_shrubbery%2Fstatus%2F1497947501000802309%3Ft%3DFen9ygAX46AHD6C6XxYI9Q26s%3D19

https://twitter.com/a_shrubbery/status/1497947501000802309?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497947501000802309%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fa_shrubbery%2Fstatus%2F1497947501000802309%3Ft%3DFen9ygAX46AHD6C6XxYI9Q26s%3D19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 11:39:49 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 27, 2022, 12:28:03 AM

This.  As much as we here all HATE war, and death and destruction and families being ripped apart - and we do not want our own country to get involved…we have to watch carefully. 

This is still an unprovoked attack and invasion of one nation on another- by an unstable leader who clearly fells emboldened. 

If this continues beyond what we are seeing and spreads - which is not an unrealistic possibility- a completely different strategy may be unavoidable.  A real line in the sand might have to be drawn, otherwise there will be no reason for the unstable leader to stop.

I would hope, and assume that the leaders of this country and its closest allies are already preparing for that and are committed to where and what that line is.    This makes me very nervous-  it seems like a far away place to us here, and hopefully it settles down from its current level.  But it could easily explode into something bigger.

The US as been antagonizing Russia for decades. I wouldn't say unprovoked. Criminal, illegal, and without justification, absolutely. As are all invasions by international law. The US has been very guilty of this same crime, many times over, and people in this country just seem to brush it over- but that's neither here nor there. 

Putin has been talking about the US ripping up arms treaties and NATO expansion and that this would lead to escalation and to a response from Russia- since the early 2000s- and most famously in his 2007 speech in Munich. What did Bush II try to do months after that speech in Munich? Add Ukraine and Georgia to NATO. Thankfully France and Germany made the compromise to block that and tell those countries they'd become members some day in the future- but not now or any time soon. The US has torn up foundational Cold War arms control treaties which helped prevent WWIII (3 of them now by my count), continually expanded NATO to Russia's borders, and they have meddled in the affairs of Ukraine at truly astounding levels - helping support a coup of a democratically elected government in 2014- then hand picking the interim government- and effectively turning it into a US colony- and all of that has played a part to leading to where we are today. 

I don't think the guy is unstable. I think this was very calculated and he decided to make this move on a guy he rightfully perceived as a weak idiot (Biden). His calculation was way off- as the rest of the world and even the few allies he had in Europe are lining up against him. His biggest miscalculation was this: Russia is not the United States. Russia is a regional power, but not much else. The United States is still the world's lone superpower and what we say goes. Russia does not enjoy that level of superiority nor will it ever. China is coming though- I wouldn't say they are a superpower but they are inching ever closer by the year.

I don't think the US is going to let this kick off into WWIII. They knew full damn well from the start they weren't going to send troops into Ukraine or establish a no fly zone. Which is why this whole thing is so infuriating to me. US egged Ukraine on to get tough with Russia- full well knowing that when/if Ukraine gets wrecked by Russia that we were just going to leave them out to dry to get wrecked. US could've made a deal with Russia to keep Ukraine neutral, out of NATO, and guarantee Ukraine's security.

I am starting to think that perhaps this is what the US wanted all along in order to sell more LNG gas to Europe. Germany has already announced they will be buying more LNG gas from the US and that they are building LNG infrastructure to be able to receive, convert, and use said LNG gas. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 27, 2022, 11:40:42 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 27, 2022, 11:25:48 AM

The fact that the Russians want to meet for talks speaks volumes on just how bad Russia is doing

perhaps

perhaps there's just a better way to take over a country once you've let them know you're serious

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 11:42:30 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 27, 2022, 11:25:48 AM

The fact that the Russians want to meet for talks speaks volumes on just how bad Russia is doing

I'm not sure that is the case. There was a report on day one of the invasion that Russia wanted to talk to Ukraine. 

It's been 4 or 5 days of an invasion. It took the US over 3 weeks to capture Baghdad in 2003. These things take time.

Best thing for all parties involved would be for them to meet and end this war and get some kind of treaty/resolution. War is not the answer. As Marvin Gaye so beautifully said.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 27, 2022, 11:44:45 AM

Putin’s nuclear forces action is ‘escalatory and unnecessary’: US defense official

A senior U.S. defense official told Fox News correspondent Jennifer Griffin that there is no reason to doubt validity of reports that Putin has put his nuclear forces on an elevated alert status.
“We believe this is not only an unnecessary step to take but an escalatory one … that could make things much more dangerous,” the official said. “We have no reason to doubt the validity of this order but how it’s manifested itself is not completely clear yet.” 
The official stressed that the Pentagon is “confident” it has the ability to defend “the Homeland, allies and partners” with “tough strategic deterrence.”
But the Pentagon is still working to “assess what this action … actually means in tangible terms.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 27, 2022, 11:46:30 AM

Condoleezza Rice: Putin ‘seems erratic,’ ‘descending into something’ never personally seen before

Former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Russian President Vladmir Putin appears "erratic" and is "descending" into something she’s never personally seen before. 
"He was always calculating and cold. But this is different. He seems erratic. There is an ever-deepening, delusional rendering of history, it was always a kind of victimology about what had happened to them, but now it goes back to blaming Lenin for the foundation of Kyiv … in Ukraine," Rice said on "Fox News Sunday." 
Rice has met with Putin at least a half a dozen times across her career and said he is "descending into something I haven’t personally seen before."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 27, 2022, 11:47:07 AM

KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — In a dramatic escalation of East-West tensions over Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, President Vladimir Putin ordered Russian nuclear forces put on high alert Sunday in response to what he called “aggressive statements” by leading NATO powers.

The directive to put Russia’s nuclear weapons in an increased state of readiness for launch raised fears that the crisis could boil over into nuclear warfare, whether by design or mistake.

Putin’s step is “potentially putting in play forces that, if there’s a miscalculation, could make things much, much more dangerous,” said a senior U.S. defense official, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Amid the mounting tensions, Ukraine announced that a delegation would meet with Russian officials for talks. But the Kremlin’s ultimate aims in Ukraine — and what steps might be enough to satisfy Moscow — remained unclear.


https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550 (https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 27, 2022, 11:50:48 AM

this is just posturing

Putin knows the west will know hes done this

Russia did the same thing during the Cubin Missile Crisis 

also of note so far the west has not increased its emergency status

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 11:51:49 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 11:42:30 AM

It's been 4 or 5 days of an invasion. It took the US over 3 weeks to capture Baghdad in 2003. These things take time.

Remarkably different situations of course.  For one thing, Baghdad was 3x the distance with several cities in between and two major rivers than channeled any advance

Many accounts claim Russian forces are making less progress than expected and feared.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 11:54:27 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 11:51:49 AM

Remarkably different situations of course.  For one thing, Baghdad was 3x the distance with several cities in between and two major rivers than channeled any advance

Many accounts claim Russian forces are making less progress than expected and feared.

not really. point still stands. they weren't going to take Kyiv in 24 hours. or 48 hours. this shit takes time. people today think everything happens immediately. it doesn't. instant gratification and all that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 11:56:49 AM

Biden and Putin need to meet in person, sit in a room together and not leave that room until they end this god damn war and come up with a solution that both sides find agreeable.

This is getting dangerous as f**k, and Russia’s nuclear forces being on high alert is frightening. All it takes is one miscalculation, one mistake - and it's all over.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 27, 2022, 11:57:43 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 27, 2022, 11:47:07 AM

KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — In a dramatic escalation of East-West tensions over Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, President Vladimir Putin ordered Russian nuclear forces put on high alert Sunday in response to what he called “aggressive statements” by leading NATO powers.

The directive to put Russia’s nuclear weapons in an increased state of readiness for launch raised fears that the crisis could boil over into nuclear warfare, whether by design or mistake.

Putin’s step is “potentially putting in play forces that, if there’s a miscalculation, could make things much, much more dangerous,” said a senior U.S. defense official, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Amid the mounting tensions, Ukraine announced that a delegation would meet with Russian officials for talks. But the Kremlin’s ultimate aims in Ukraine — and what steps might be enough to satisfy Moscow — remained unclear.


https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550 (https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-2e4e1cf784f22b6afbe5a2f936725550)

I think right now Putin is looking for a way out of this while saving a little face

I would not surprised to see some type of agreement where Russia retained some eastern fringes of Ukraine in exchange for a pullout and peace

Not sure the Ukraine folks would go for that however as they are feeling pretty confident they can kick rusky ass

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 27, 2022, 12:00:55 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 11:56:49 AM

Biden and Putin need to meet in person, sit in a room together and not leave that room until they end this god damn war and come up with a solution that both sides find agreeable.

This is getting dangerous as f**k, and Russia’s nuclear forces being on high alert is frightening. All it takes is one miscalculation, one mistake - and it's all over.

thats never gonna happen

hell Biden doesnt even know what day it is

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 12:01:10 PM

Putin can't win unless he can show he prevented Ukraine from joining NATO, ever.

I don't think the talks will go anywhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 12:01:41 PM

Biden has zero business negotiating on the part of Ukraine.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 27, 2022, 12:05:00 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 12:01:10 PM

Putin can't win unless he can show he prevented Ukraine from joining NATO, ever.

I don't think the talks will go anywhere.

what we dont know is what kind of internal pressure Putin is getting from his own folks

Promising not to join NATO is no big deal to Ukraine and they make that deal with some assurance of no future invasions

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 12:06:12 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 12:01:41 PM

Biden has zero business negotiating on the part of Ukraine.

Leaving aside the fact that Ukraine is effectively a US colony and has been since 2014 when the US helped stage a coup which overthrew a democratically elected government and then handpicked the interim government....

He wouldn't be negotiating on the part of Ukraine. He'd be negotiating on the part of the United Staes in relation to Ukraine's membership into NATO. Ukraine doesn't have a right to join a military alliance. No country does. This is a foolish fallacy that for some reason people cannot wrap their heads around.

Biden could very easily make a deal to take Ukraine membership in NATO off the table and forever- and he should be doing that right now to end this war and prevent further bloodshed and escalation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 12:07:38 PM

Biden has zero business negotiating on the part of NATO, or Ukraine, or anyone else.

Zero.  None.  Zip.  The notion is comical.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 12:08:25 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 27, 2022, 12:05:00 PM

what we dont know is what kind of internal pressure Putin is getting from his own folks

Promising not to join NATO is no big deal to Ukraine and they make that deal with some assurance of no future invasions

they'd have to amend their constitution. These morons in this right wing government the US helped prop up and establish in Ukraine have baked future NATO membership into their constitution with an amendment in 2019. Their goal was to be in NATO by 2023 at the earliest and by 2030 at the latest.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 12:10:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 12:07:38 PM

Biden has zero business negotiating on the part of NATO, or Ukraine, or anyone else.

Zero.  None.  Zip.  The notion is comical.

this is perhaps the dumbest, most naive thing I've ever read. get real, please. join the real world, will you? the US is the worlds superpower. they negotiate shit on behalf of other countries all of the time. 

US = NATO. The only reason Ukraine and Georgia ever got open ended NATO invitations is BECAUSE of the US. More specifically Bush II. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 12:11:14 PM

It is ultra simplistic to think somehow Putin would leave this alone with some agreement not to join NATO.

Putin (and a few others) think NATO already reneged on one promise not to expand.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 27, 2022, 12:12:14 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 12:06:12 PM

Leaving aside the fact that Ukraine is effectively a US colony and has been since 2014 when the US helped stage a coup which overthrew a democratically elected government and then handpicked the interim government....

He wouldn't be negotiating on the part of Ukraine. He'd be negotiating on the part of the United Staes in relation to Ukraine's membership into NATO. Ukraine doesn't have a right to join a military alliance. No country does. This is a foolish fallacy that for some reason people cannot wrap their heads around.

Biden could very easily make a deal to take Ukraine membership in NATO off the table and forever- and he should be doing that right now to end this war and prevent further bloodshed and escalation.

I wouldnt offer Russia anything while they are invading Ukraine

Thats a sign of weakness and Russia would just increase the invasion attempt

The fact that Putin wants to talk is encouraging and should be followed up with

The key is allowing Putin to save some face else he will feel that he has nothing to lose to continue the invasion

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 12:12:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 12:11:14 PM

It is ultra simplistic to think somehow Putin would leave this alone with some agreement not to join NATO.

Putin (and a few others) think NATO already reneged on one promise not to expand.

well obviously it'd have to be in writing and in the form of a binding treaty.

And if the US tells their client state- Ukraine to sign, said client state will sign. Best believe that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 12:13:57 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 27, 2022, 12:12:14 PM

I wouldnt offer Russia anything while they are invading Ukraine

Thats a sign of weakness and Russia would just increase the invasion attempt

The fact that Putin wants to talk is encouraging and should be followed up with

The key is allowing Putin to save some face else he will feel that he has nothing to lose to continue the invasion

well obviously Russia withdrawing from Ukraine and ending the war would be the main condition to any kind of agreement. duh. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 12:14:14 PM

A binding treaty, passed by 2/3rds of the Senate?

OK,  then, we're deep into fantasies now.

Not remotely a plausible option.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 27, 2022, 12:17:08 PM

this conflict needs to stay between Ukraine and Russia

direct talks with the US would escalate the situation

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 27, 2022, 12:17:50 PM

Idk why Russia is so pissy about NATO membership.  

Someone needs to hold up a mirror to Russia so it can see what it is.....the old drunk lady who was hot 50 years ago, but smells like booze and might steal your walllet.

No thanks.  Russia isn't appealing enough to covet by a hostile foreign country.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 27, 2022, 12:18:08 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 27, 2022, 12:17:08 PM

this conflict needs to stay between Ukraine and Russia

direct talks with the US would escalate the situation

TEAM AMERICA
WORLD POLICE

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 12:19:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 12:14:14 PM

A binding treaty, passed by 2/3rds of the Senate?

OK,  then, we're deep into fantasies now.

Not remotely a plausible option.

who says the US needs to sign any treaty? I never said that. Ukraine would be the one that needs to sign any treaty. And if the Biden administration tells them to sign, they will sign. That's what good little client states do.

US could easily force NATO to make it a policy to pause all expansion for the foreseeable future- and could have NATO bar Ukraine from ever joining. France and Germany would've came in their pants if we had done that a decade ago. They never wanted Ukraine in NATO in the first place.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 12:24:53 PM

OK, well, I'll pass on discussing the possibilities of the fantastic and exceedingly unlikely.

Russia will sit down and make Ukraine an opening offer completely unacceptable, and Ukraine will do the same.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 12:25:40 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 27, 2022, 12:17:50 PM

Idk why Russia is so pissy about NATO membership. 

Someone needs to hold up a mirror to Russia so it can see what it is.....the old drunk lady who was hot 50 years ago, but smells like booze and might steal your walllet.

No thanks.  Russia isn't appealing enough to covet by a hostile foreign country.

Arms control treaties being ripped to shreds and a hostile military alliances' continued expansion more and more on their borders which include neighbors that have historical grievances with Russia- not to mention US helping to overthrow a neutral if not slightly pro-russian democratically elected government in Ukraine in 2014 and then hand pick the interim government - a very anti-russian government with albeit a small but very powerful ultra-nationalist/neo-nazi wing- and then flooding said new government with lethal arms = a powder keg.

They see all of this as a threat. Which, I can't say I blame them. Have to look at things from their point of view. Not ours.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 12:26:57 PM

Always nice to get Putin's propaganda parroted here of course ....

Neonazis indeed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 12:38:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 12:26:57 PM

Always nice to get Putin's propaganda parroted here of course ....

Neonazis indeed.

Yeah, there is no propaganda here.

Azov Battalion. Might want to google them. The US state department classified them as a hate group. Congress still found it wise to send flows of arms and cash to them. Those sort of ultra right wing/nationalist/neo-nazi militias - that the US supported - are what overthrew the democratically elected government in Ukraine.

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukraine-s-got-a-real-problem-with-far-right-violence-and-no-rt-didn-t-write-this-headline/

https://jacobinmag.com/2022/01/cia-neo-nazi-training-ukraine-russia-putin-biden-nato


might want to read up on these guys below...you know....actual neo-nazis....who the US supported- John Dipshit McCain even embraced them- and who were both part of the interim government that followed- and who were vital in the overthrow of a democratically elected government in Ukraine in 2014- which the US helped to bring to fruition- and would've never happened without direct US support and involvement.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andriy_Parubiy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleh_Tyahnybok

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 27, 2022, 12:44:29 PM

At least John Dipshit McCain served his country and paid for it.Unlike so many of the douche nozzles popping off today

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 12:47:46 PM

Russian Onlyfans models suffering under the sanctions:

"Without it, I can't pay rent."

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/onlyfans-russia-putin-ukraine-invasion-1313259/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 27, 2022, 12:48:20 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 12:38:08 PM

Yeah, there is no propaganda here.

Azov Battalion. Might want to google them. The US state department classified them as a hate group. Congress still found it wise to send flows of arms and cash to them. Those sort of ultra right wing/nationalist/neo-nazi militias - that the US supported - are what overthrew the democratically elected government in Ukraine.

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukraine-s-got-a-real-problem-with-far-right-violence-and-no-rt-didn-t-write-this-headline/

https://jacobinmag.com/2022/01/cia-neo-nazi-training-ukraine-russia-putin-biden-nato


might want to read up on these guys below...you know....actual neo-nazis....who the US supported- John Dipshit McCain even embraced them- and who were both part of the interim government that followed- and who were vital in the overthrow of a democratically elected government in Ukraine in 2014- which the US helped to bring to fruition- and would've never happened without direct US support and involvement.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andriy_Parubiy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleh_Tyahnybok

So are you saying that Russia was justified in invading Ukraine?

That Ukraine posed a threat to Russia?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 12:54:30 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 27, 2022, 12:48:20 PM

So are you saying that Russia was justified in invading Ukraine?

That Ukraine posed a threat to Russia?

did I say that one time? No, I didn't. Lol. I think I've said quite the opposite, many times. 

Putin stretches the truth massively with the neo-nazi stuff- but there is a very small, albeit powerful wing of that in Ukraine- and that wing was instrumental in overthrowing the democratically elected government in 2014- and the US absolutely openly supported that wing. 

The real problem they have is that their government has endorsed neo-nazi groups (funded C14 programs, Azov Batallion is an official part of their national guard forces) and has failed to enforce the law and punish hate crimes committed by members of some of these groups.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 12:56:05 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 12:47:46 PM

Russian Onlyfans models suffering under the sanctions:

"Without it, I can't pay rent."

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/onlyfans-russia-putin-ukraine-invasion-1313259/

Onlyfans being taken down now? Lol. Pornhub has blocked all access to Russian ip addresses with Ukraine flags showing up when they try to login to pornhub. 

Would be hilarious if Putin got overthrown because no one in Russia could get their porn. Lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 01:01:11 PM

Rats off a sinking ship.

https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1497980539483172872?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497980539483172872%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FPickardJE%2Fstatus%2F1497980539483172872

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 01:01:37 PM

Why 1905 Is Considered Einstein's Miracle Year - Owlcation (https://owlcation.com/stem/Einsteins-Miracle-Year)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 01:02:23 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 27, 2022, 12:44:29 PM

At least John Dipshit McCain served his country and paid for it.Unlike so many of the douche nozzles popping off today

yeah this is what I think of John McCain and his fat stupid daughter.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4d8jWOOaCI

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 01:05:33 PM

I'm hating the death and destruction, but finding at least some solace in the humor of the internet/social media battles being waged.  

https://twitter.com/CeeEyes/status/1497803737326252033?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497989199160610820%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fshadowcat_mst%2Fstatus%2F1497989199160610820

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 01:05:51 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 01:01:11 PM

Rats off a sinking ship.

https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1497980539483172872?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497980539483172872%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FPickardJE%2Fstatus%2F1497980539483172872

China will probably buy that 20%. 

The worst thing of this all is the death and destruction and lives lost. Second worst thing is this probably drives China and Russia closer and closer- when they are not really natural allies and have been feuding more than they have been together over the last 50-60 years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 01:06:44 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 01:05:51 PM

China will probably buy that 20%.

The worst thing of this all is the death and destruction and lives lost. Second worst thing is this probably drives China and Russia closer and closer- when they are not really natural allies and have been feuding more than they have been together over the last 50-60 years.

China isn't helping Russia.  They're subjugating them. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 01:15:17 PM

At this point, I doubt China much cares about subjugating Russia, they are small potatoes, but they do need their oil etc.  China plays the long game.  Anything that takes attention off China is good for them and in this case they will play both sides.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 01:17:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 01:15:17 PM

At this point, I doubt China much cares about subjugating Russia, they are small potatoes, but they do need their oil etc.  China plays the long game.  Anything that takes attention off China is good for them and in this case they will play both sides.

You just listed exactly why China does care about subjugating Russia.  Why pay top dollar for those imports when, as Russia's sole customer, you can pay steeply discounted prices? And, eventually, just take it as your own?

China's probably surprised that Putin has been stupid enough to do this to himself, but they will most certainly take advantage of it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 27, 2022, 01:21:19 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 12:54:30 PM

did I say that one time? No, I didn't. Lol. I think I've said quite the opposite, many times.

Putin stretches the truth massively with the neo-nazi stuff- but there is a very small, albeit powerful wing of that in Ukraine- and that wing was instrumental in overthrowing the democratically elected government in 2014- and the US absolutely openly supported that wing.

The real problem they have is that their government has endorsed neo-nazi groups (funded C14 programs, Azov Batallion is an official part of their national guard forces) and has failed to enforce the law and punish hate crimes committed by members of some of these groups.

so what


Russia should have no say in what Ukraine does as long as Ukraine doesnt pose a threat to them and nobody in their right mind sees Ukraine as a threat to Russia

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 01:21:38 PM

They need the oil, certainly, and will appreciated the discounted pricing, if supply lines can be devised.  I was thinking of subjugation as being more direct rather than just buying stuff.  I am curious how Russian oil is getting to the US, supertanker one supposes, probably for western refineries.  I don't think we have a major pipeline to ship WTI to California.

Those STs could go to China if we stop importing their oil.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 01:22:18 PM

I always knew Zelensky was a closet Nazi and anti-Semite .... Putin told me that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 01:25:14 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 01:22:18 PM

I always knew Zelensky was a closet Nazi and anti-Semite .... Putin told me that.

huh? Zelensky is jewish. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 01:26:31 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 01:17:24 PM

You just listed exactly why China does care about subjugating Russia.  Why pay top dollar for those imports when, as Russia's sole customer, you can pay steeply discounted prices? And, eventually, just take it as your own?

China's probably surprised that Putin has been stupid enough to do this to himself, but they will most certainly take advantage of it.

that's not really subjugation. that's being smart and taking advantage of the situation. a situation which Putin created stupidly by actually launching an invasion of Ukraine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 01:28:00 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/p9bAKxZ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 01:30:32 PM

Jews make the best Nazis.

Some folks think Hitler was part Jewish, he probably wasn't.  Shicklgruber.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 01:40:52 PM

Ukraine Prime Minister is Jewish too.  I'm sure he's quite the neo-Nazi just like Zelensky.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 01:45:38 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/uHpmGNa.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 02:03:16 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 01:28:00 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/p9bAKxZ.png)

looks photoshopped to me. I'd be wary of whatever we see on social media. Turns out that whole ghost of kyiv and the 13 soldiers saying f*k you russian warship - not true.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 02:05:53 PM

when Putin says the government and entire country are neo-nazis - yeah, that is obviously ridiculous lies and propaganda and massive stretching of the truth.

however, Ukraine absolutely has a neo-nazi problem. And the US gov't absolutely embraced neo-nazis (like Andriy Parubiy and Oleh Tyahnybok) and neo-nazi groups (Azov Battalion) in order to overthrow a democratically elected government in Ukraine in 2014. This is just fact.

Both things can be true.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 02:10:10 PM

I'd bet every European country has extreme Neo-Nazi groups, including Russia.

Russian National Unity - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_National_Unity)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 02:10:45 PM

pretty disgusting to see those in the media say the quiet part out-loud....

https://twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/1498008911403786242?s=20&t=Xj_gIkRlAcXQlHY-1jM0uw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 02:14:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 02:10:10 PM

I'd bet every European country has extreme Neo-Nazi groups, including Russia.

Russian National Unity - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_National_Unity)

Far more Russians fought with nazi Germany, than did Ukrainians.  Russia has a nazi problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 02:14:11 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 02:10:10 PM

I'd bet every European country has extreme Neo-Nazi groups, including Russia.

Russian National Unity - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_National_Unity)

cool story.

is the US supporting those neo-nazi groups in other countries with arms and training like they did in Ukraine? is the US embracing founders of those neo-nazi groups like they did with Andriy Parubiy and Oleh Tyahnybok in 2014? 

are those countries funding neo-nazi group programs like Ukraine government did with C14? are those countries incorporating neo-nazi groups into their armed forces like Ukraine has done with the Azov Battalion? 

Thanks for playing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 02:16:02 PM

https://twitter.com/PaulSonne/status/1497987741354799108?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497987741354799108%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fpaulsonne%2Fstatus%2F1497987741354799108%3Fs%3D21

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 02:22:59 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 02:14:08 PM

Far more Russians fought with nazi Germany, than did Ukrainians.  Russia has a nazi problem.

There was a Russian/Ukrainian battalion near Omaha Beach on D Day, about ten miles inland near Bayeux.  Predictably their main goal was to surrender.  Give a choice between a POW camp and being part of the German Army, I might choose the latter.

The Germans had a chance to attract Ukrainians to their cause and muffed it of course.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 02:23:22 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 02:14:08 PM

Far more Russians fought with nazi Germany, than did Ukrainians.  Russia has a nazi problem.

Cool. This is just a stupid comparison as there were and are far more Russians than Ukrainians. Russians hate Nazi's far more than Ukrainians is my guess, as the Nazis killed tens of millions of Russians. 

And that totally explains why huge chunk of the Ukrainian population considers Stepan Bandera - a literal nazi collaborator - a hero in Ukraine- and the new right-wing government of Ukraine that the US helped put in power in 2014 - has even renamed streets for him all over their country. The new government in 2014 even renamed a street in Kyiv from Moscow Avenue to Stepan Bandera Avenue.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 02:24:38 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 02:23:22 PM

Cool. Totally explains why huge chunk of the Ukrainian population considers Stepan Bandera - a literal nazi collaborator - a hero in Ukraine- and the new right-wing government of Ukraine that the US helped put in power in 2014 - has even renamed streets for him all over their country. The new government in 2014 even renamed a street in Kyiv from Moscow Avenue to Stepan Bandera Avenue.

Cool.  Totally explains why Putin is killing thousands of people in a neighboring country.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 02:24:53 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/kOVk8U0.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 02:26:48 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 02:24:53 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/kOVk8U0.png)

hopefully this doesn't escalate things. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 02:27:37 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 02:24:38 PM

Cool.  Totally explains why Putin is killing thousands of people in a neighboring country.

you talk about whataboutisms....jesus whataboutism. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 02:29:20 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 02:27:37 PM

you talk about whataboutisms....jesus whataboutism.

It's your go-to move.  Really, it's your only move, since the discussion at hand is Putin invading and killing thousands of people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 02:29:28 PM

https://twitter.com/iguardans/status/1497982822736437254?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497982822736437254%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Figuardans%2Fstatus%2F1497982822736437254%3Ft%3D_7XZulvsdD8dfiXLQKmLbw26s%3D19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 02:31:31 PM

The most effective propaganda has kernels of truth.

Putin claims Ukrainian leadership are neoNazis to justify his invasion, at least for internal consumption.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 02:33:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 02:31:31 PM

The most effective propaganda has kernels of truth.

Putin claims Ukrainian leadership are neoNazis to justify his invasion, at least for internal consumption.

Good thing it's not working and everyone sees right through it.  Only stupid people buy it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 02:33:44 PM

Wow, even the Swiss are poised to move away from neutrality on this.  Dickface Putin really stepped in it this time.

https://twitter.com/DeItaone/status/1498013062254809094?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1498013062254809094%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FDeItaone%2Fstatus%2F1498013062254809094

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 02:36:49 PM

Watch | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=525665762228099)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 02:37:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 02:31:31 PM

The most effective propaganda has kernels of truth.

Putin claims Ukrainian leadership are neoNazis to justify his invasion, at least for internal consumption.

Exactly right!

There are kernels to truth- but they get stretched out massively and to the max to the point of insanity and fantasy. And I suspect as you said, his entire schtick of "Ukraine = all Neo-Nazis!" is to help sell this invasion to the Russian people (US does this as well) - and as we've seen from the protests all over Russia - a good chunk of his people ain't buying it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 02:38:13 PM

I've even read some here claiming some significant portion of Ukraine ARE NeoNazis.

well, not some, just one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 02:41:46 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 02:36:49 PM

Watch | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=525665762228099)

speaking of Facebook, they've hilariously reversed course and have allowed discussion of Ukraine's neo-nazi Azov Battalion forces on their platform once war broke out. The Azov Battalion and all mention or discussion of them was previously banned from Facebook. Seems incredibly strange to me.


https://theintercept.com/2022/02/24/ukraine-facebook-azov-battalion-russia/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 02:42:44 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 02:38:13 PM

I've even read some here claiming some significant portion of Ukraine ARE NeoNazis.

well, not some, just one.

well then you need to re-read and have better reading and comprehension skills, because no one has said a significant portion of Ukraine are neo-nazis.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 02:48:24 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 02:23:22 PM

And that totally explains why huge chunk of the Ukrainian population considers Stepan Bandera - a literal nazi collaborator - a hero in Ukraine- and the new right-wing government of Ukraine that the US helped put in power in 2014 - has even renamed streets for him all over their country. The new government in 2014 even renamed a street in Kyiv from Moscow Avenue to Stepan Bandera Avenue.

I'd opine if some HUGE CHUNK of Ukraine considers a neoNazi a HERO, well, that could mean a HUGE CHUNK at least sympathizes with neoNazi philosophies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 02:57:01 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 02:48:24 PM

I'd opine if some HUGE CHUNK of Ukraine considers a neoNazi a HERO, well, that could mean a HUGE CHUNK at least sympathizes with neoNazi philosophies.

yeah, I wouldn't say that just because they find a nazi collaborator a national hero that it makes them nazis. but it is a major problem. the Yanukovych government by the way - which the US helped overthrow in 2014 - actually revoked Bandera's official status as a national hero in Ukraine in 2011. It wasn't until the new government in 2014 took over that they started renaming streets for Bandera.

the people elected a jewish guy to be the president. pretty obvious the entire country isn't neo nazis.

but that does not mean that Ukraine doesn't have a neo-nazi problem. they do. and the US has been feeding that problem, not helping it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 02:58:17 PM

So, it would appear you think a significant portion of Ukraine are neoNazis, as reflected by their support for this Bandera fellow, who I always viewed as a kind of bit actor.

How NATO's expansion helped drive Putin to invade Ukraine : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2022/01/29/1076193616/ukraine-russia-nato-explainer)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 03:03:34 PM

EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen announced that the EU would close the airspace above its member states to Russian-owned, Russian-registered or Russian-controlled aircraft.
“These aircraft will no more be able to land in, take off or overly the territory of the EU,” von der Leyen said in a statement (https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/statement_22_1441).
Von der Leyen also announced new military assistance for Ukraine, a move she described as a "watershed moment."
"For the first time ever, the European Union will finance the purchase and delivery of weapons and other equipment to a country that is under attack," she said.
Her announcement came on the same day that several European leaders announced plans to provide military equipment to Ukraine. Denmark's prime minister, Mette Frederiksen, said her country would send 2,700 anti-tank weapons (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/denmark-donate-2700-anti-tank-weapons-ukraine-2022-02-27/) to Ukraine, while Sweden's minister for foreign affairs announced a shipment (https://twitter.com/AnnLinde/status/1498002914362728455) of 5,000 anti-tank weapons, 5,000 helmets, 5,000 body shields and 135,000 field rations.
Von der Leyen laid out additional punishment on Russia, announcing that the EU would ban Russian media outlets RT and Sputnik as well as their subsidiaries.
The commission will also impose new sanctions on President Alexander Lukashenko's regime in Belarus, a key ally of Russia. Those sanctions will target key economic sectors including mineral fuels, tobacco, wood and timber, cement, iron and steel.
Von der Leyen said the commission was mobilizing to help its eastern member states take in and care for the many Ukrainian refugees escaping the violence.
"President Zelensky's leadership and his bravery and the resilience of the Ukrainian people are outstanding and impressive," she said. "We welcome with open arms those Ukrainians who have to flee from Putin's bombs and I am proud of the warm welcome that Europeans have given them," she said.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 03:05:33 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 02:58:17 PM

So, it would appear you think a significant portion of Ukraine are neoNazis, as reflected by their support for this Bandera fellow, who I always viewed as a kind of bit actor.

no. that's not my view. my view is that it is a problem that there is a not insignificant portion of Ukraine who view the guy as a hero. i wouldn't say huge problem- but definitely a problem. Yanockvuch was 100% right to revoke his status as a national hero- the guy was a nazi collaborator. 

Now having literal neo-nazis like Andriy Parubiy and Oleh Tyahnybok as pivotal figures in the overthrow of 2014 and the interim government that followed- the current Ukraine gov't funding childrens programs for neo-nazi hate groups like C14 - and also officially incorporating a neo-nazi hate group like Azov Batallion into their armed forces and giving them political cover - well those are all huge problems.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 03:06:31 PM

This is a minor personal note, but I was really looking forward to seeing St. Petersburg in May, I had read a good bit about it.  This is trivial in the overall scope of things of course.  It would been the highlight of the cruise.  I had some inkling of visiting Moscow someday, if I do, it will be rather far in the future I suspect.

Every day this struggle lasts puts Putin in a more desperate position.  I am hoping somehow the powers that be will replace him, I don't expect that, but they much be getting annoyed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 03:08:28 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 03:05:33 PM

no. that's not my view. my view is that it is a problem that there is a not insignificant portion of Ukraine who view the guy as a hero. i wouldn't say huge problem- but definitely a problem. Yanockvuch was 100% right to revoke his status as a national hero- the guy was a nazi collaborator.

"Huge chunks" has now shrunk to "not insignificant".  Perhaps a plurality is in the offing, maybe even someday minority, or perhaps even mostly in eastern Ukraine some view him as a hero.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 03:10:07 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 03:03:34 PM

EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen announced that the EU would close the airspace above its member states to Russian-owned, Russian-registered or Russian-controlled aircraft.
“These aircraft will no more be able to land in, take off or overly the territory of the EU,” von der Leyen said in a statement (https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/statement_22_1441).
Von der Leyen also announced new military assistance for Ukraine, a move she described as a "watershed moment."
"For the first time ever, the European Union will finance the purchase and delivery of weapons and other equipment to a country that is under attack," she said.
Her announcement came on the same day that several European leaders announced plans to provide military equipment to Ukraine. Denmark's prime minister, Mette Frederiksen, said her country would send 2,700 anti-tank weapons (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/denmark-donate-2700-anti-tank-weapons-ukraine-2022-02-27/) to Ukraine, while Sweden's minister for foreign affairs announced a shipment (https://twitter.com/AnnLinde/status/1498002914362728455) of 5,000 anti-tank weapons, 5,000 helmets, 5,000 body shields and 135,000 field rations.
Von der Leyen laid out additional punishment on Russia, announcing that the EU would ban Russian media outlets RT and Sputnik as well as their subsidiaries.
The commission will also impose new sanctions on President Alexander Lukashenko's regime in Belarus, a key ally of Russia. Those sanctions will target key economic sectors including mineral fuels, tobacco, wood and timber, cement, iron and steel.
Von der Leyen said the commission was mobilizing to help its eastern member states take in and care for the many Ukrainian refugees escaping the violence.
"President Zelensky's leadership and his bravery and the resilience of the Ukrainian people are outstanding and impressive," she said. "We welcome with open arms those Ukrainians who have to flee from Putin's bombs and I am proud of the warm welcome that Europeans have given them," she said.

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/XWwIzh5GIWWf6/giphy.gif?cid=790b761176642a97427122d6c92017e6ee79c87c4101d7cb&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 03:11:14 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 03:06:31 PM

This is a minor personal note, but I was really looking forward to seeing St. Petersburg in May, I had read a good bit about it.  This is trivial in the overall scope of things of course.  It would been the highlight of the cruise.  I had some inkling of visiting Moscow someday, if I do, it will be rather far in the future I suspect.

Every day this struggle lasts puts Putin in a more desperate position.  I am hoping somehow the powers that be will replace him, I don't expect that, but they much be getting annoyed.

I've always wanted to visit St. Petersburg and Moscow. Like you, doesn't look like it'll be any time soon now. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 27, 2022, 03:53:43 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 01:17:24 PM

China's probably surprised that Putin has been stupid enough to do this to himself, but they will most certainly take advantage of it.

China has been surprised by it's own stupidity just as much,if the west doesn't bring some jobs back after what just happened to the economy then the Reds can start licking their chops

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 27, 2022, 04:05:00 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 01:30:32 PM

Jews make the best Nazis.

Some folks think Hitler was part Jewish, he probably wasn't.  Shicklgruber.

Watched a segment yrs back and some elite SS units went into his home town in Austria and removed the town/church records pertaining to his birth and removed the family headstones.They were coving something up - Der Fuhrer of the Reich wasn't the pure Aryan he was selling himself as

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 27, 2022, 04:06:53 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 27, 2022, 01:21:19 PM

Russia should have no say in what Ukraine does as long as Ukraine doesnt pose a threat to them and nobody in their right mind sees Ukraine as a threat to Russia

Well it is PUTIN so you just answered your own inquiry

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 27, 2022, 04:13:10 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 03:03:34 PM

Her announcement came on the same day that several European leaders announced plans to provide military equipment to Ukraine. Denmark's prime minister, Mette Frederiksen, said her country would send 2,700 anti-tank weapons (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/denmark-donate-2700-anti-tank-weapons-ukraine-2022-02-27/) to Ukraine, while Sweden's minister for foreign affairs announced a shipment (https://twitter.com/AnnLinde/status/1498002914362728455) of 5,000 anti-tank weapons, 5,000 helmets, 5,000 body shields and 135,000 field rations.

That's just great,and assuming the Russians don't intercept them upon arrival who's going to set up training.They're not Red Riders or we could send Ralphie

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 04:16:46 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 27, 2022, 04:13:10 PM

That's just great,and assuming the Russians don't intercept them upon arrival who's going to set up training.They're not Red Riders or we could send Ralphie

We already shipped antitank weapons to Ukraine.  The more modern ones are "fairly simple".  My GUESS is they route the gear through Poland, on the ground, I think that area has not had fighting as yet.  The Russians could of course cut that supply route with some effort.


The weapons Ukraine is using to hold back invading Russian Army | Daily Mail Online

 (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-10551271/The-weapons-Ukraine-using-hold-invading-Russian-Army.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 27, 2022, 04:18:03 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 03:11:14 PM

I've always wanted to visit St. Petersburg and Moscow. Like you, doesn't look like it'll be any time soon now.

Eh,the Amber Room's gone - prolly went down when the Wilhelm Gustov got torpedoed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 05:03:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 03:08:28 PM

"Huge chunks" has now shrunk to "not insignificant".  Perhaps a plurality is in the offing, maybe even someday minority, or perhaps even mostly in eastern Ukraine some view him as a hero.

well, I probably should've worded it better. I don't know the exact polling on who doesn't and does celebrate him- but the guy was literally an official national hero of Ukraine - and the President who was overthrown in 2014 is the one who revoked the guys status as a national hero. And I've never claimed this to be a major problem. Just that- it's a problem. And btw the government that is in power right now was naming streets after him in 2014 and has even declared his birthday a national holiday in 2019. NOT a good thing/look/idea. He's mostly viewed as a hero in Western Ukraine (where Bandera is from) - and  Lviv (western ukraine) where Bandera is from has renamed buildings, streets, built statues, and monuments to drum roll.......a Nazi collaborator. Ukraine having a national holiday for a nazi collaborator and naming streets after him is undoubtedly bad. That is definitely a problem, but not a major one. And the line about eastern ukraine doesn't make much sense to me- as it's the neo-nazi militias (like Azov Battalion) that have been fighting the separatists in eastern ukraine. Bandera is viewed as a villain in Eastern Ukraine.

Ukraine's major neo-nazi problem was that during the coup of 2014 and the interim gov't that followed literal neo-nazi's like Andriy Parubiy and Oleh Tyahnybok play pivotal roles and were both openly embraced by the US/West- that the current gov't funding neo-nazi childrens programs like they did with C14, and oh yeah the current gov't incorporating neo-nazi militias into it's armed forces like they did with the Azov Battalion and providing them political cover. And the US has been exacerbating that problem by pouring funds, arms, and training into the hands of neo-nazi groups.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 05:52:52 PM

The EU now is in a proxy war with Russia via  Ukraine, as are we, much as the Soviets supplied the North Vietnamese back in the day, etc. etc.  The Russians may try and severe the land supply routes from Poland, Moldova is already under Putin's control in effect.  We're not going to be flying stuff in.  Russians can easily intercept cargo ships headed to Odessa.  This could be how "we" get into it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 06:12:00 PM

https://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/world/115201/military_drones_from_sicily_flying_recon_missions_over_ukraine_black_sea?fbclid=IwAR0RzL2CavM85OKOcjCnA9zm669OJ4xGrk62GR5HcH9zgeJkl0fV4LyA4P0

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 06:16:20 PM

Those leaked emails often lead hackers directly to your passwords for other online accounts and identity theft, Lookout said. Here’s the company’s list of the 20 passwords most commonly found on the dark web, due to data breaches:

• 123456
• 123456789
• Qwerty
• Password
• 12345
• 12345678
• 111111
• 1234567
• 123123
• Qwerty123
• 1q2w3e
• 1234567890
• DEFAULT
• 0
• Abc123
• 654321
• 123321
• Qwertyuiop
• Iloveyou
• 666666

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 06:22:02 PM

this is literally one of the most stunning things I've ever seen air on tv....talk about a complete lack of self-awareness.

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1498060937605046272?s=20&t=LeI5-CX6OekJCs4Kqv_AhA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 06:25:14 PM

I love that line..... God is with peacemakers, not those who use violence.

https://twitter.com/Lattif/status/1498010669693681665?s=20&t=LeI5-CX6OekJCs4Kqv_AhA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 06:27:32 PM

We invaded Germany in WW Two, and Japan as well, not to mention France, Belgium, Holland, Italy, Morrocco, ....

A nice thing about those invasions is we asked only for some space to bury our dead.

(https://i.imgur.com/T23ZiVz.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 06:29:57 PM

God is on the side with the best artillery. - Napoleon Bonaparte

How many divisions has the Pope? - Josef Stalin
(https://www.redditstatic.com/desktop2x/img/renderTimingPixel.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2022, 06:31:40 PM

yeah, really wasn't even referring to those....was referring to the invasions of Afghanistan/Iraq of which Condoleezza Rice was a party to as part of the Bush II administration.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 09:10:26 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 06:29:57 PM

God is on the side with the best artillery. - Napoleon Bonaparte

How many divisions has the Pope? - Josef Stalin
(https://www.redditstatic.com/desktop2x/img/renderTimingPixel.png)

The pope used to have vast armies at his direct disposal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 27, 2022, 09:13:39 PM

Somebody pointed out he wasn't practicing christianity - so he burned them as heretics.Unless of course they offered up indulgences - nice fine charitable types the guys in Pajamas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 27, 2022, 09:27:04 PM

The man in the black pajamas, Dude. Worthy f***in' adversary.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 09:28:53 PM

Almost all of my pajamas are black.  Perhaps I'm the worthy adversary.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 27, 2022, 10:43:51 PM

with the black hat, perhaps

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 10:45:19 PM

I don't typically wear the black hat to bed, it would get a little smushed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 27, 2022, 10:50:02 PM

like Burt Reynolds as the bandit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2022, 11:06:17 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 27, 2022, 10:50:02 PM

like Burt Reynolds as the bandit

The Bandit is my spirit animal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 28, 2022, 08:44:50 AM

Dirac was a strange fusion of genius and madness (wondersofphysics.com) (https://www.wondersofphysics.com/2019/07/paul-dirac-stories.html?fbclid=IwAR2zBj8Pkjkst8b_qMkoEONVWQE41kkL5BbgoHX04HfVWYDtpZdmzMNrpao)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 28, 2022, 08:59:58 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 28, 2022, 08:44:50 AM

Dirac was a strange fusion of genius and madness (wondersofphysics.com) (https://www.wondersofphysics.com/2019/07/paul-dirac-stories.html?fbclid=IwAR2zBj8Pkjkst8b_qMkoEONVWQE41kkL5BbgoHX04HfVWYDtpZdmzMNrpao)

Heisenberg recollected a conversation among young participants at the 1927 Solvay Conference (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solvay_Conference) about Einstein and Planck (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Planck)'s views on religion between Wolfgang Pauli (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Pauli), Heisenberg and Dirac. Dirac's contribution was a criticism of the political purpose of religion, which Bohr regarded as quite lucid when hearing it from Heisenberg later.^{[51] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Dirac#cite_note-51)} Among other things, Dirac said:

Quote

I cannot understand why we idle discussing religion. If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality. The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination. It is quite understandable why primitive people, who were so much more exposed to the overpowering forces of nature than we are today, should have personified these forces in fear and trembling. But nowadays, when we understand so many natural processes, we have no need for such solutions. I can't for the life of me see how the postulate of an Almighty God helps us in any way. What I do see is that this assumption leads to such unproductive questions as to why God allows so much misery and injustice, the exploitation of the poor by the rich, and all the other horrors He might have prevented. If religion is still being taught, it is by no means because its ideas still convince us, but simply because some of us want to keep the lower classes quiet. Quiet people are much easier to govern than clamorous and dissatisfied ones. They are also much easier to exploit. Religion is a kind of opium that allows a nation to lull itself into wishful dreams and so forget the injustices that are being perpetrated against the people. Hence the close alliance between those two great political forces, the State and the Church. Both need the illusion that a kindly God rewards—in heaven if not on earth—all those who have not risen up against injustice, who have done their duty quietly and uncomplainingly. That is precisely why the honest assertion that God is a mere product of the human imagination is branded as the worst of all mortal sins.^{[52] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Dirac#cite_note-religion-52)}

Heisenberg's view was tolerant. Pauli, raised as a Catholic, had kept silent after some initial remarks, but when finally he was asked for his opinion, said: "Well, our friend Dirac has got a religion and its guiding principle is 'There is no God, and Paul Dirac is His prophet. '" Everybody, including Dirac, burst into laughter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 28, 2022, 09:01:57 AM

Pajamas?

WTF is that?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 28, 2022, 09:02:25 AM

I read a biography of Dirac, he might be the most interesting of the brilliant physicists alive at that time, maybe Feynman was more so because of his personality.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 28, 2022, 10:04:44 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 28, 2022, 09:01:57 AM

Pajamas?

WTF is that?

you might refer to them as your "skivies."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 28, 2022, 10:10:24 AM

Yeah so don’t ever shop at family dollar store for anything. Ever. 400 stores closed and millions of dollars of product recalled after FDA investigators found thousands of dead decaying rats in their warehouses. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 28, 2022, 10:13:43 AM

any live rats?

I don't shop at any type of "dollar" store

or Walmart or Sams

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 28, 2022, 01:52:01 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/274722021_1589583834761330_5855363908021512835_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s640x640&_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=krGjg3LHbe8AX_6Vvv7&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT-1DGZy0thtVyZacI3a5_iNr7wfeOorFw1ymZfuQC170Q&oe=62214742)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 28, 2022, 07:33:39 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 28, 2022, 01:52:01 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/274722021_1589583834761330_5855363908021512835_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s640x640&_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=krGjg3LHbe8AX_6Vvv7&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT-1DGZy0thtVyZacI3a5_iNr7wfeOorFw1ymZfuQC170Q&oe=62214742)

At least our grandfathers had good stories.  We get to bore our grandchildren with working in pajamas, learning how to bake sourdoughs, and making anti-Russian memes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 28, 2022, 07:35:28 PM

Don't forget the tremendous hardship of toilet paper shortages!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 28, 2022, 07:51:27 PM

Since Roger Federer became #1 in February 2004, Daniel Medvedev becomes the second #1 outside the big 3

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 01, 2022, 12:05:53 AM

Sounds like college football.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 01, 2022, 01:09:25 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 01, 2022, 12:05:53 AM

Sounds like college football.

sounds boring. so yeah, just like college football.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2022, 10:12:05 AM

What a $1.9M teardown in Ansley Park looks like right now | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/ansley-park-home-for-sale-teardown-development-midtown-piedmont-park)

This is half a mile north of us, a tear down, quarter acre, asking $1.9 million.  And there is a four story height limitation on new construction along Piedmont Road.

(https://i.imgur.com/OaEh0sf.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 02, 2022, 09:11:56 AM

Still going with flat roofs?Hmm not sure I'd like/that 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 02, 2022, 09:13:38 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 28, 2022, 10:13:43 AM

any live rats?

I don't shop at any type of "dollar" store

or Walmart or Sams

G** D***** 1% er

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 02, 2022, 09:14:55 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 02, 2022, 09:11:56 AM

Still going with flat roofs?Hmm not sure I'd like/that

You mean on the apartment building next door?  It's very common around here for such structures.  There is a four story height limitation on this street near the park.  Our building is the only one exceeding that because it was built before that restriction happened.  But it means you can't make money on some properties that are small because you can't build enough units by going up.  So, if you can get away from the park even 300 feet, suddenly you see 30 story residential buildings, with flat roofs.

I don't know what they can do with a quarter acre for nearly $2 mil.  Those apt buildings next door have been under construction for three years now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 02, 2022, 09:29:58 AM

I've always liked the butterfly roof, popular in mid-century modern architecture.

(https://i.imgur.com/Kr93bgm.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 02, 2022, 10:20:35 AM

Carlin was great (edited for kids).


Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'd like to- Thank you, thank you.

I’d like to begin by saying F Lance Armstrong.

F him and his balls and his bicycles and his steroids and his yellow shirts.

And the dumb, empty expression on his face, I'm tired of that asshole.

And while you're at it, Fuck Tiger Woods, too!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on March 02, 2022, 09:45:02 PM

So I went bobsledding this week in Park City.  I've done a few high speed thrill rides before but this one is a bit different.   The Gs and the feeling of helplessness is quite a rush.  Kind of starts like a roller coaster that basically comes off the tracks and you just hold on to the end.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 03, 2022, 07:50:02 AM

Quote from: MarqHusker on March 02, 2022, 09:45:02 PM

So I went bobsledding this week in Park City.  I've done a few high speed thrill rides before but this one is a bit different.  The Gs and the feeling of helplessness is quite a rush.  Kind of starts like a roller coaster that basically comes off the tracks and you just hold on to the end.

So cool.  I’ve always wondered what that’s like. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 03, 2022, 08:09:37 AM

Yeah I've always wanted to go bobsledding, too.  It's one of my favorite Olympic events to watch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 03, 2022, 08:15:46 AM

They got him. Hopefully life in prison for this jackoff.

Illinois Democrat Michael Madigan indicted on federal racketeering, bribery charges | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/illinois-democrat-michael-madigan-indicted-federal-racketeering-bribery-charges)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 08:33:10 AM

Someone recommended the show "Billionaires" and I started watching.  The nice thing is they have two actors I like.  The actual business parts are quite muddled, to me anyway, they probably could have done a better job with an actual financial consultant helping the writers on things like how hedge funds operate and what short sales and insider trading actually are, but I don't expect much accuracy from "Hwood".  I'd give the show a B overall.

I'm the guy who spoils movies by noting inaccuracies in them.  Ha.

My wife has taken to watching Perry Mason reruns, and Matlock, and I will watch a bit with her.  The PM shows get rather complex and I lose track of who is who.  They get some pretty big name stars on that show at times.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 08:39:09 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/EggNdZl.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 08:41:14 AM

I bet they'd wonder where the flying cars are.  Aside from cell phones in our lives, a lot of other stuff would look pretty mundane to them.  A microwave would seem magical.

They might be amazed at seeing how diverse the population is in the US today, how many folks are of different skin tones walking about.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 09:08:26 AM

Prosecutors say that the conspiracy was led by Oath Keepers leader Stewart Rhodes, who rallied the group to prepare for violence in support of former President Trump (https://thehill.com/people/donald-trump)'s baseless claims of a stolen election, going so far as to purchase thousands of dollars worth of firearms and weapons equipment before and after Jan. 6.
The indictment alleged that groups of Oath Keepers moved into the Capitol in two military-style "stack" formations. Prosecutors say that James was the leader of the second stack, which entered through the east side of the complex and attempted to force its way past police officers.
According to the indictment, James got into a violent altercation with officers, who used pepper spray on him and another member of the stack

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 09:13:06 AM

The ad comes up on my FB feed routinely now, $45, seems a bit odd to me.

(https://i.imgur.com/uzaICCt.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 09:37:33 AM

NFL Draft 2022: Todd McShay reveals top five running back prospects (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/LongFormArticle/NFL-Draft-2022-Todd-McShay-reveals-top-five-running-back-prospects-183680596/#1845145_10)

It's a list, so whatever, but it's amusing to me he has Cook at No. 3 when he didn't start at UGA.

I thought Cook was a good RB but not as good as Michel or Chubb (who I thought was terrific).  Zamir White could be a better NFl back than Cook, don't know.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 03, 2022, 09:37:40 AM

Maize and Blue Media Conspiracy, at work

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 03, 2022, 09:38:45 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 03, 2022, 08:15:46 AM

They got him. Hopefully life in prison for this jackoff.

Illinois Democrat Michael Madigan indicted on federal racketeering, bribery charges | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/illinois-democrat-michael-madigan-indicted-federal-racketeering-bribery-charges)

what the hell is up with Illinois/Chicago politics? Dirtiest freaking city/state in all of America. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 03, 2022, 09:40:46 AM

Chicago might be the most corrupt city, but I'm willing to bet Louisiana has Illinois beat as a state.  At least, on a per capita basis.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 03, 2022, 09:41:29 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 09:37:33 AM

NFL Draft 2022: Todd McShay reveals top five running back prospects (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/LongFormArticle/NFL-Draft-2022-Todd-McShay-reveals-top-five-running-back-prospects-183680596/#1845145_10)

It's a list, so whatever, but it's amusing to me he has Cook at No. 3 when he didn't start at UGA.

I thought Cook was a good RB but not as good as Michel or Chubb (who I thought was terrific).  Zamir White could be a better NFl back than Cook, don't know.

Cook's ability as a pass catcher/WR is pretty damn awesome. I think NFL looks for that now more than ever. Plus- he doesn't have a lot of miles on his body. I think NFL also looks at that nowadays too with RB's. They platoon guys- the era of the dominant #1 RB who gets all the carries is nearly over.

White is bigger, more physical- but he has a lot of mileage on those knees. Hasn't he had like 3 ACL's already? Not a great formula for a guy that will last in the NFL.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 03, 2022, 09:43:50 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 03, 2022, 09:40:46 AM

Chicago might be the most corrupt city, but I'm willing to bet Louisiana has Illinois beat as a state.  At least, on a per capita basis.

You might be right. I do remember former Illinois governor Blagojevich did just go to federal prison on corruption charges not that long ago. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 03, 2022, 09:47:11 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 03, 2022, 09:43:50 AM

You might be right. I do remember former Illinois governor Blagojevich did just go to federal prison on corruption charges not that long ago.

Hmmmm I could be wrong, then.  

But man it's tough for me to imagine a more corrupt state than Louisiana.  They've really raised it to an art form.  I can't help but be impressed by it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 09:49:14 AM

In Louisiana, folks don't get caught.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 03, 2022, 09:51:30 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 08:33:10 AM

Someone recommended the show "Billionaires" and I started watching.  The nice thing is they have two actors I like.  The actual business parts are quite muddled, to me anyway, they probably could have done a better job with an actual financial consultant helping the writers on things like how hedge funds operate and what short sales and insider trading actually are, but I don't expect much accuracy from "Hwood".  I'd give the show a B overall.

I'm the guy who spoils movies by noting inaccuracies in them.  Ha.

true story, had a family friend who lived right next door to the brother of maybe the largest hedge fund guy on Wall Street. his brothers firm charged the highest fees (3 pts) and percentage of profits (50%) of any hedge fund on wall street, and his returns to his clients were 30%+ yearly- he started the fund with just $20 million and wound up becoming a billionaire - and in their final 7 years of trades they were only down 2 months- in 7 years. needless to say he was investigated by the feds in the biggest insider trading case in history. turns out those returns were to good to be true.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 03, 2022, 09:54:53 AM

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/most-corrupt-states

according to this, we're all wrong. Wyoming is the most corrupt state per capita in the US. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 09:59:36 AM

A reason traditional mutual funds have lost favor is they don't beat market averages consistently, or even match them.  There is a reason for this.

I used to invest in Janus Funds, they did a pretty good job overall and I liked their approach, but I got out years ago, I'd guess they still do "OK".

I sometimes wonder how folks can spend a ton of money making a show and not hire some technical expert to help the writers with some of the technical details.  Breaking Bad had an odd chemistry thing in year one that they seemed to fix later on.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 03, 2022, 10:06:21 AM

could be a budget thing. often times early on in shows they try to keep budget down, bc most tv shows fail. I think the studios and production companies often have no idea what’s going to be a hit.

Hiring technical advisers and experts to help them make every episode could get a bit expensive.

Breaking Bad become a huge smash hit, and they probably got more money for the budget.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 03, 2022, 10:37:41 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 03, 2022, 09:38:45 AM

what the hell is up with Illinois/Chicago politics? Dirtiest freaking city/state in all of America.

One of the reasons I'm here now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 03, 2022, 10:38:04 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 03, 2022, 09:37:40 AM

Maize and Blue Media Conspiracy, at work

Corn lobby.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 03, 2022, 10:43:52 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 03, 2022, 08:15:46 AM

They got him. Hopefully life in prison for this jackoff.

Illinois Democrat Michael Madigan indicted on federal racketeering, bribery charges | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/illinois-democrat-michael-madigan-indicted-federal-racketeering-bribery-charges)

thinking about this more, am I the only one who thinks it’s nuts that Hunter Biden can get a board seat for $83,000/month from a Ukrainian energy company while Ukraine was effectively a US colony and his father- the VP of the US was put in charge by Obama as the head of Ukraine policy? 

Or that VP Dick Cheney can push the Bush administration to hand out massive no bid contracts to Halliburton- the company he used to be CEO of for many years before coming back into politics. 

Or that lawmakers are allowed to pass legislation that they know will affect markets and then act on that information before hand (hi Nancy P!). 

Or that Barack Obama can bailout Wall Street and then after his term is up, can go give hour long speeches to Wall Street firms for $700k a pop. It’s amazing to me this bribe after the fact honor system holds up.  

Or the donations to the Clinton foundation while Hilary was Secretary of State. 

All clearly unethical and corruption in my mind. Both parties are covered in filth. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 03, 2022, 10:54:26 AM

HRC and BHO are both from Chicago...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 03, 2022, 10:55:43 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 03, 2022, 10:43:52 AM

thinking about this more, am I the only one who thinks it’s nuts that Hunter Biden can get a board seat for $83,000/month from a Ukrainian energy company while Ukraine was effectively a US colony and his father- the VP of the US was put in charge by Obama as the head of Ukraine policy?

Or that VP Dick Cheney can push the Bush administration to hand out massive no bid contracts to Halliburton- the company he used to be CEO of for many years before coming back into politics.

Or that lawmakers are allowed to pass legislation that they know will affect markets and then act on that information before hand (hi Nancy P!).

Or that Barack Obama can bailout Wall Street and then after his term is up, can go give hour long speeches to Wall Street firms for $700k a pop. It’s amazing to me this bribe after the fact honor system holds up. 

Or the donations to the Clinton foundation while Hilary was Secretary of State.

All clearly unethical and corruption in my mind. Both parties are covered in filth.

Its an all star cast

Hillary has a lot more going on then just the foundation

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 11:06:02 AM

Speaking Fees for Former Presidents - List and Details (thoughtco.com) (https://www.thoughtco.com/former-presidents-speaking-fees-3368127)

Former President Bill Clinton has made the most of any modern president on the speaking circuit. He gives dozens of speeches a year and each brings in between $250,000 and $500,000 per engagement, according to published reports. He also earned $750,000 for a single speech in Hong Kong in 2011. 

In the decade or so after Clinton left office, from 2001 through 2012, he made at least $104 million in speaking fees, according to an analysis by The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-the-clintons-went-from-dead-broke-to-rich-bill-earned-1049-million-for-speeches/2014/06/26/8fa0b372-fd3a-11e3-8176-f2c941cf35f1_story.html).

Clinton makes no bones about why he charges so much.

“I gotta pay our bills,” he told NBC News.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 11:09:33 AM

My daughter worked a while back for CBRE in NYC, a pretty good well paying gig for her.  She quit after about a year, she said it was unbelievably boring.  While she was there, Hillary gave a speech to the assembled masses.  I was quite interested in what she talked about, but my daughter said she didn't pay any attention, and she didn't think anybody else did either.  It's a great gig, you get wined and dined and paid handsomely for giving the same speech you give at other places with some name changes.

I personally think of very few people in history really worth hundreds of thousand for some speech, Einstein comes to mind because I'm rereading a book about him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 03, 2022, 11:22:24 AM

$104 million….lmao. 

You’re right, no one is worth those kind of fees. Some of it- prestige bs. A lot of it- after the fact bribes. Scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours later. It’s an unspoken thing. 

And as those leaked Wikileaks emails of Hilary’s showed- where she admitted in a private speech - that she has/needs both “public and private positions” on issues. Basically - people like me lie and say anything to get elected or help our cause - we don’t mean what we say publicly- it’s just for show- we really think something else- privately. And sadly, that’s probably true of all of them. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 03, 2022, 11:43:43 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 03, 2022, 10:54:26 AM

BHO are both from Chicago...

Speaking of that guy….

I will never understand how a constitutional law professor who won a Nobel peace prize could also have a secret kill list (which included American citizens), sign the 2012 NDAA which in effect suspended habeas corpus (even for US citizens), take the US from 2 wars to 7, expand NSA/CIA spying powers (illegally) to levels and capabilities that Bush II could only wet dream of, ramp up drone strikes to levels 10x what Bush II had done, dropped so many bombs in Syria the US Air Force literally ran out of bombs, and averaged a bomb being dropped every 20 minutes of his presidency. The two don’t mesh, at all.

He was such a smooth talking, intelligent, good looking, relatively young, hip, cool guy- he put a pretty face on some ugly shit. CIA even wrote a classified paper that was leaked by Wikileaks back in 2009 about how Obama would be a great asset to their efforts to continue/sell these wars and bombings to a weary US public and to NATO allies who were growing tired and losing support for them from inside their home populations. 

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/a-long-forgotten-cia-document-from?s=r

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 11:48:05 AM

I missed where the USAF LITERALLY ran out of bombs.

Maybe that was a top secret.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 03, 2022, 11:58:10 AM

Note the source. But there are many. Just wanted to give some clicks to this outfit so they remain afloat.

The U.S. is running out of bombs to drop on ISIS | CNN Politics (https://www.cnn.com/2015/12/04/politics/air-force-20000-bombs-missiles-isis/index.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 11:59:32 AM

The bombing campaign has left the U.S. Air Force with what an Air Force official described as munitions depot stocks “below our desired objective.”

I don't interpret that as meaning they LITERALLY RAN OUT OF BOMBS.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 03, 2022, 12:10:54 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 11:48:05 AM

I missed where the USAF LITERALLY ran out of bombs.

Maybe that was a top secret.

You must not pay much attention to current events. It’s all very public information.

Btw you should also really try to read Wikileaks sometime, can really take a peek behind the curtain and learn something about how government/power truly works/operates.

In Obama’s last year in office alone he dropped over 26,000 bombs. USAF LITERALLY were running out of bombs, they were expending bombs faster than they could replace them. This problem has only exacerbated under Trump- who was dropping more bombs and at even faster/higher rates than his predecessor.

Trump’s first year in office alone he dropped more bombs by Labor Day than Obama dropped in all of 2016.

And that’s one of the major problems of constantly expanding executive power. You never know what lunatic will inherit those powers or how he might use them. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 12:13:01 PM

More hyperbole from the "expert".

"dropped so many bombs in Syria the US Air Force literally ran out of bombs"

Versus stocks fell below desired levels.

And yes, I imagine they were running a bit short, but they hardly were LITERALLY out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 12:14:44 PM

Sackler family to pay $6 billion in new Purdue Pharma opioid settlement (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/03/purdue-pharma-us-states-agree-to-new-opioid-settlement.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 03, 2022, 12:31:11 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 12:14:44 PM

Sackler family to pay $6 billion in new Purdue Pharma opioid settlement (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/03/purdue-pharma-us-states-agree-to-new-opioid-settlement.html)

They’ll still have billions left. Not enough. Take it all. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 03, 2022, 12:32:49 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 03, 2022, 12:10:54 PM

You must not pay much attention to current events. It’s all very public information.

Btw you should also really try to read Wikileaks sometime, can really take a peek behind the curtain and learn something about how government/power truly works/operates.

In Obama’s last year in office alone he dropped over 26,000 bombs. USAF LITERALLY were running out of bombs, they were expending bombs faster than they could replace them. This problem has only exacerbated under Trump- who was dropping more bombs and at even faster/higher rates than his predecessor.

Trump’s first year in office alone he dropped more bombs by Labor Day than Obama dropped in all of 2016.

And that’s one of the major problems of constantly expanding executive power. You never know what lunatic will inherit those powers or how he might use them.

The political calculus encourages this stuff. Bombs are politically useful because you can put on the air of being "strong" without committing American lives, just all their money. Biden drastically curtailed drone strike usage - few care. We have useless sanctions on the Taliban so we can appear to be "strong." There is no other reason. 

Congress is mostly asleep. The Ohio Republican Senate primary race is in full swing. The biggest issue is who likes Trump the most.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 03, 2022, 12:32:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 12:13:01 PM

More hyperbole from the "expert".

"dropped so many bombs in Syria the US Air Force literally ran out of bombs"

Versus stocks fell below desired levels.

And yes, I imagine they were running a bit short, but they hardly were LITERALLY out.

Yeah, except it’s not hyperbole. 

The USAF itself said….we’re running out.  We’re dropping them faster than we can replace them, if we continue on this pace we won’t have any left to drop….you know…..literally running out of something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 03, 2022, 12:37:54 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 03, 2022, 12:32:49 PM

The political calculus encourages this stuff. Bombs are politically useful because you can put on the air of being "strong" without committing American lives, just all their money. Biden drastically curtailed drone strike usage - few care. We have useless sanctions on the Taliban so we can appear to be "strong." There is no other reason.

Congress is mostly asleep. The Ohio Republican Senate primary race is in full swing. The biggest issue is who likes Trump the most.

Wouldn’t say the sanctions on Taliban are useless- Biden administration did just take $7 billion of Afghan central bank reserves and give it away to 9/11 victims and humanitarian causes- which speaking of humanitarian causes- taking that money will likely just exacerbate a food shortage/starvation crisis currently going on in Afghanistan.

Congress has checked out. They are totally fine with the executive branch doing whatever the hell it wants when it comes to spying and war. They don’t even pretend to care anymore. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 01:04:00 PM

There is a difference between "literally ran out", which you posted, and "literally running out", which you now claim is what you mean.

And you applied it to the entire Air Force.  It's a matter of being accurate and meaning what you post, LITERALLY.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 03, 2022, 01:06:11 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 01:04:00 PM

There is a difference between "literally ran out", which you posted, and "literally running out", which you now claim is what you mean.

And you applied it to the entire Air Force.  It's a matter of being accurate and meaning what you post, LITERALLY.

Really?  You pick this hill to die on?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 01:08:46 PM

Literally.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 03, 2022, 01:11:43 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 01:08:46 PM

Literally.

far out man

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 02:27:33 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/WkZ0sQu.png)

I like this guy's character.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 02:40:40 PM

On my list of things I disdain is lists, but this is an "expert list", so that's different.

An Expert List Of The World’s Best Universities – Forbes (https://www3.forbes.com/business/an-expert-list-of-the-worlds-best-universities-vue/?utm_campaign=An-Expert-List-Of-The-Worlds-Best&utm_source=FB&utm_medium=fb151457d0us80204226617&lcid=fb151457d0us80204226617&fbclid=IwAR0SVwf83bo3w_sgx6YMlsngtseimS61qMUxKzGFZ3oP6IkdLZj52J3MWh8)

Illinois came in at 50 which is quite respectable, Wisconsin is 43, Texas at 39 surprised me a bit, Georgia Tech at #34, huh, Washington at 28???, NW at 25, UM 20, Duke 18, UCLA 17, Cal 15, Chicago 10, Stanford at 3, Yale and Harvard top ten, and of course at Numero Uno is the University of Georgia.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 03, 2022, 02:42:53 PM

Dawgs and Tide played "last night"?????

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 03, 2022, 02:47:40 PM

News to me is that Georgia is RBU.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 03, 2022, 02:49:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 02:40:40 PM

On my list of things I disdain is lists, but this is an "expert list", so that's different.

An Expert List Of The World’s Best Universities – Forbes (https://www3.forbes.com/business/an-expert-list-of-the-worlds-best-universities-vue/?utm_campaign=An-Expert-List-Of-The-Worlds-Best&utm_source=FB&utm_medium=fb151457d0us80204226617&lcid=fb151457d0us80204226617&fbclid=IwAR0SVwf83bo3w_sgx6YMlsngtseimS61qMUxKzGFZ3oP6IkdLZj52J3MWh8)

Illinois came in at 50 which is quite respectable, Wisconsin is 43, Texas at 39 surprised me a bit, Georgia Tech at #34, huh, Washington at 28???, NW at 25, UM 20, Duke 18, UCLA 17, Cal 15, Chicago 10, Stanford at 3, Yale and Harvard top ten, and of course at Numero Uno is the University of Georgia.

Surprised me too, shoulda been top 20.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 02:50:16 PM

It has a decent claim, but such things are opinions of course.  The words were posted by Jordan Davis, the mammoth UGA NT, who apparently is quite a nice fellow off the field, so his opinion on RBU is understandable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 03, 2022, 02:50:44 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 03, 2022, 02:47:40 PM

News to me is that Georgia is RBU.

they've had a pretty excellent run lately. Todd Gurley was top 3 RB in the NFL til knee injuries ended his career. Nick Chubb is a total stud. Sony Michel is decent. D'Andre Swift would probably be a lot better if he wasn't on the f**king Detroit Lions. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 02:51:31 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 03, 2022, 02:49:13 PM

Surprised me too, shoulda been top 20.

I hear they need a better OLine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 02:52:59 PM

Charlie Trippi and Frank Sinkwich were pretty good "back in the day".  But there was a gap from there for the next few decades.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 03:00:32 PM

Post office vacates site where Atlanta's tallest proposal is planned | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/midtown-development-tallest-new-tower-site-construction-activity-post-office)

This is the worst Post Office I've ever used.  But at least it was nearby.  It was the Walmart of Post Offices.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 03:20:53 PM

College football rankings: Phil Steele projects 2022 top 10 teams (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/LongFormArticle/College-football-rankings-Phil-Steele-projects-2022-top-10-teams-183623970/#183623970_9)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 03, 2022, 03:44:02 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 03, 2022, 02:50:44 PM

they've had a pretty excellent run lately. Todd Gurley was top 3 RB in the NFL til knee injuries ended his career. Nick Chubb is a total stud. Sony Michel is decent. D'Andre Swift would probably be a lot better if he wasn't on the f**king Detroit Lions.

I'll take JT23, MGIII and Sweet Feet over those guys. There are two more guys on rosters as well.

Then there are the fullbacks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on March 03, 2022, 04:15:58 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 03, 2022, 02:42:53 PM

Dawgs and Tide played "last night"?????

bama doesn't give up on titles easily. we'll find a way to claim it, one way or the other.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 03, 2022, 04:18:33 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 03, 2022, 03:44:02 PM

I'll take JT23, MGIII and Sweet Feet over those guys. There are two more guys on rosters as well.

Then there are the fullbacks.

Wisconsin definitely up there with JT breaking out as one of the elite backs in the game. Georgia and Bama are up there too though with their guys. Chubb is a total stud and Derrick Henry is well- a freak of nature.

Zeke Elliot been in obvious decline the last couple years and OSU doesn't really have anyone else. 

Saquon Barkley had me thinking he was the next Barry Sanders after his first two seasons, but he missed his entire 3rd season with a nasty injury and just wasn't the same guy this past year in his 4th season. But- like Barry- he's also been stuck on a bad team with a bad QB and bad OL. Rumors are Giants might be moving him. After that Miles Sanders is pretty decent. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 04:45:44 PM

These guys don't last very long, do they?  Knowshon Moreno was pretty good, for a brief time.  Chubb had an extensive knee injury as a sophomore from which he recovered obviously.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 03, 2022, 04:48:54 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 04:45:44 PM

These guys don't last very long, do they?  Knowshon Moreno was pretty good, for a brief time.  Chubb had an extensive knee injury as a sophomore from which he recovered obviously.

not really man. Could just be me, but it seems to me they are falling off from their peak at quicker/sooner rates than the past. Defenders are bigger, faster, stronger by the year- hits add up. Derrick Henry seems to be lasting though. Which is surprising to me given just how freakishly big he is. Usually, the bigger they are- harder they fall. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 03, 2022, 08:58:22 PM

Emmitt's carries record might last longer than his rushing yards record.

Adrian Peterson is basically 37 years old and pretty much done......and he's 1,200 carries behind Emmitt.  That's like 4 full years as a workhorse starting RB.

4,409 carries.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2022, 08:28:15 AM

SITE OF THE DAY:

Gastro Obscura

We are a global community of explorers, who have together created a comprehensive database of the world’s most wondrous places and foods —24,207 of them contributed by our community so far, and more every day, from a secret apartment atop the Eiffel Tower to bridges built out of living roots, from a temple shaped like a chicken to an island ruled by cats, from a fruit that tastes like chocolate pudding to a spicy chutney made out of red ants.


https://www.atlasobscura.com/about (https://www.atlasobscura.com/about)

our mission is to inspire wonder and curiosity about the incredible world we all share.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/cool-places-to-eat (https://www.atlasobscura.com/cool-places-to-eat)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2022, 08:32:27 AM

Our favorite local French restaurant is closing, they sold to someone, probably good for them.  I spent a lot of money there so maybe this is a good thing.

Meh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 04, 2022, 08:34:33 AM

My favorite local French restaurant closed during COVID but reopened under new ownership/management and is now better than ever.  More expensive though, like everything else.

My favorite brasserie, on the other hand, really tanked.  They had a great steak frites platter, and their burgers were fantastic.  Now it's all limp and greasy.  They still have an excellent selection of wine and mostly-Belgian beer, though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2022, 08:36:36 AM

youse guys could probably contribute to the site above......

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2022, 08:36:43 AM

THOUGHT OF THE DAY:

"To those people in the huts and villages of half the globe struggling to break the bonds of mass misery, we pledge our best efforts to help them help themselves, for whatever period is required — not because the communists may be doing it, not because we seek their votes, but because it is right. If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich." - John F. Kennedy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2022, 08:58:07 AM

I have been selling stocks of late,

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2022, 09:04:49 AM

I've been buying

just 401K type auto retirement deduct from the paycheck

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2022, 09:08:33 AM

I'm buying too. Why not?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 04, 2022, 09:09:40 AM

Buy low sell high.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2022, 09:09:54 AM

If you're still working, I think you should be buying long term.  It's after retirement that things change.  I recall in 2008-9 I just figured it meant another few years on the job.  Now, a real drop would be painful if I wasn't already heavy in cash.  I try and keep 6-7 years very liquid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2022, 09:18:31 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 04, 2022, 09:09:40 AM

Buy low sell high.

That's never been my strategy, but I get that some like to play the market. I'm a long haul guy, and that is the reason I could retire right now (or 5 years ago) if I wanted to.

Well, that and my business. That's been berry berry good to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2022, 09:33:30 AM

not sure why I'm still working

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 04, 2022, 09:40:21 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2022, 09:18:31 AM

That's never been my strategy...

Ah, so you prefer to buy high and sell low?

Bold strategy, Cotten... ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2022, 09:51:23 AM

I meant that I don't try to play the market. I buy what makes sense to me, as a long-term hold.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 04, 2022, 09:57:21 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2022, 09:51:23 AM

I meant that I don't try to play the market. I buy what makes sense to me, as a long-term hold.

I know, just kidding.

Plenty of people think they can play the market.  The truth is, it's just not possible, and the world is littered with quant guys who thought they knew how, and failed.

I'm invested heavily in the things I know well, as viable companies with viable products and long-term thinking.  I've got a decent chunk of Apple from back when, wish I had more.  I own quite a few tech stocks because I'm familiar with it.  Those have all done well long-term for me, while suffering some jaw-dropping short term losses at times.  I'm mostly invested for retirement purposes so can think long-term.

Real estate's been my best investment by far.  But I've been very lucky with the timing of those investments, I couldn't do the same thing in today's market.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 04, 2022, 10:30:57 AM

buy good stocks in a rising market

not able to do that in todays market

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 04, 2022, 10:58:15 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 04, 2022, 09:33:30 AM

not sure why I'm still working

Golf Ball & Bud Fat Future's

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2022, 11:35:28 AM

Supreme Court reinstates death sentence for Boston Marathon bomber Dzhokhar Tsarnaev (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/04/supreme-court-reinstates-death-sentence-for-boston-marathon-bomber-dzhokhar-tsarnaev.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2022, 12:25:47 PM

Clinton Foundation reconvening Global Initiative to target 'steep' challenges | TheHill (https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/596886-clinton-foundation-reconvening-global-initiative-to-target-steep)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 04, 2022, 02:15:30 PM

This guy has more effort in his pinky finger than on MSU's entire basketball roster

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/wife-devastated-husband-pushes-her-215126251.html?utm_source

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2022, 03:25:21 PM

Gas $4.69/gal today at Costco... $5.45 at the Arco I passed on the way there...

That's for 87 octane. 

BTW this would be a good time to highlight that unless you have a high-compression engine that the auto's manual says you should use a higher grade gas, there is ABSOLUTELY NO ADVANTAGE to running a higher octane than your engine is designed for. It's not better. It won't give you more power. It won't clean your engine. All it will do is lighten your wallet. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 04, 2022, 03:41:56 PM

Quote from: ELA on March 04, 2022, 02:15:30 PM

This guy has more effort in his pinky finger than on MSU's entire basketball roster

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/wife-devastated-husband-pushes-her-215126251.html?utm_source

😂😂👍

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 04, 2022, 03:45:54 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2022, 03:25:21 PM

Gas $4.69/gal today at Costco... $5.45 at the Arco I passed on the way there...

That's for 87 octane.

BTW this would be a good time to highlight that unless you have a high-compression engine that the auto's manual says you should use a higher grade gas, there is ABSOLUTELY NO ADVANTAGE to running a higher octane than your engine is designed for. It's not better. It won't give you more power. It won't clean your engine. All it will do is lighten your wallet.

not saying youre wrong only that I was led to believe that more octane means cleaner burn and less residue buildup

is that just not true

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 04, 2022, 03:47:45 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2022, 03:25:21 PM

Gas $4.69/gal today at Costco... $5.45 at the Arco I passed on the way there...

That's for 87 octane.

BTW this would be a good time to highlight that unless you have a high-compression engine that the auto's manual says you should use a higher grade gas, there is ABSOLUTELY NO ADVANTAGE to running a higher octane than your engine is designed for. It's not better. It won't give you more power. It won't clean your engine. All it will do is lighten your wallet.

$3.18 at my Costco.  $3.13 at the quickie mart down the block. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2022, 03:53:01 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 04, 2022, 03:45:54 PM

not saying youre wrong only that I was led to believe that more octane means cleaner burn and less residue buildup

is that just not true

That is not true. 

Higher octane is actually used to retard ignition. It takes more energy to ignite than lower-octane gas. Which is why it's necessary for high-compression engines to not allow it to ignite prematurely, causing knocking. 

If your auto manual says you need it, buy it. If not, it's a waste of money, ALL the marketing campaigns of the fuel companies notwithstanding.

If you have a high-compression engine that requires it, using lower octane gas usually will no longer cause knocking, because modern engines can adjust to the gas and alter timing to keep the knocking from happening. THOSE engines will actually lose power running a lower grade of gas than is specified in the manual, but engines that don't require it won't gain anything from running higher than specified.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2022, 03:53:20 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 04, 2022, 03:47:45 PM

$3.18 at my Costco.  $3.13 at the quickie mart down the block.

Hmm... Any houses for sale in your neighborhood? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 04, 2022, 04:01:10 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2022, 03:53:20 PM

Hmm... Any houses for sale in your neighborhood?

Uhhhh...errr....

NOPE!  For sure, not!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 04, 2022, 04:07:08 PM

In other news, my VP just sent me one of these for my home office, as a reward for kicking tail all last year.  It's pretty, pretty good.

https://www.dell.com/en-us/member/shop/dell-ultrasharp-38-curved-usb-c-hub-monitor-u3821dw/apd/210-ayle/monitors-monitor-accessories

(https://i.imgur.com/vd9GWl4.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2022, 04:10:55 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 04, 2022, 04:07:08 PM

In other news, my VP just sent me one of these for my home office, as a reward for kicking tail all last year.  It's pretty, pretty good.

https://www.dell.com/en-us/member/shop/dell-ultrasharp-38-curved-usb-c-hub-monitor-u3821dw/apd/210-ayle/monitors-monitor-accessories

(https://i.imgur.com/vd9GWl4.png)

Nice!

Looks like we're going back to the office starting in April. Hybrid of only 3 days a week though, which is nice. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 04, 2022, 04:14:35 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2022, 04:10:55 PM

Nice!

Looks like we're going back to the office starting in April. Hybrid of only 3 days a week though, which is nice.

We start back officially on Monday.  I imagine I'll be going in for about a half-day per week, when I have important meetings lined up and I know there will be face-to-face availability of folks.

It will feel VERY strange walking back into that office.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2022, 04:25:05 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 04, 2022, 04:14:35 PM

We start back officially on Monday.  I imagine I'll be going in for about a half-day per week, when I have important meetings lined up and I know there will be face-to-face availability of folks.

It will feel VERY strange walking back into that office.

Yeah, I've been back roughly half a dozen times in two years. Going in multiple days a week will be very strange.

But I feel like I should make use of it. With the Director title, I actually have an office... With four real walls and a door... I might as well enjoy it while I can!

At least they're standardizing on "in office" days. I would absolutely hate it if it was piecemeal and you go into the office on a Monday only to find out that 2-3 of the people you really wanted to actually talk to F2F were Tuesday people...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 04, 2022, 04:25:58 PM

OK since utee deleted my post on the Ukraine thread Im going to repost it here

Biden refuses to increase the amount of oil production up to Trump levels which would offset the affect of banning Ukraine oil imports


It appears he will screw the average American instead of going against his green supporters

This is crap

He would rather tap the federal reserves then save this nation by restoring oil production up to Trump levels

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 04, 2022, 04:28:01 PM

Our Directors and VPs still have cubes-- so they just set up permanent shop in the conference rooms, that are supposed to be available to everyone.  It's silly, and annoying, because conference rooms are always at a premium.

Supposedly they've cut down on cubes and installed more conference rooms.  Guess I'll find out next week.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on March 04, 2022, 04:28:04 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2022, 03:25:21 PM

Gas $4.69/gal today at Costco... $5.45 at the Arco I passed on the way there...

That's for 87 octane.

BTW this would be a good time to highlight that unless you have a high-compression engine that the auto's manual says you should use a higher grade gas, there is ABSOLUTELY NO ADVANTAGE to running a higher octane than your engine is designed for. It's not better. It won't give you more power. It won't clean your engine. All it will do is lighten your wallet.

yeah, but if my wallet is lighter, then that's less strain on the vehicle to pull me, giving me better mileage and efficiency. right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 04, 2022, 04:34:14 PM

That's one theory!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2022, 04:35:52 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 04, 2022, 04:28:01 PM

Our Directors and VPs still have cubes-- so they just set up permanent shop in the conference rooms, that are supposed to be available to everyone.  It's silly, and annoying, because conference rooms are always at a premium.

Supposedly they've cut down on cubes and installed more conference rooms.  Guess I'll find out next week.

Apparently up in our Bay Area offices, only Sr Director and higher warrant an office. Luckily I'm down here in SoCal. 

Quote from: rolltidefan on March 04, 2022, 04:28:04 PM

yeah, but if my wallet is lighter, then that's less strain on the vehicle to pull me, giving me better mileage and efficiency. right?

Well it's only "figure of speech" lighter, in that chances are if you--like most people--pay for your gas with a little plastic card, then the account your $ is withdrawn from is smaller while your wallet remains the same weight. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on March 04, 2022, 04:44:58 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2022, 04:35:52 PM

Apparently up in our Bay Area offices, only Sr Director and higher warrant an office. Luckily I'm down here in SoCal.
Well it's only "figure of speech" lighter, in that chances are if you--like most people--pay for your gas with a little plastic card, then the account your $ is withdrawn from is smaller while your wallet remains the same weight.

tricky bastards stopped taking coins just so we wouldn't be able to take advantage of the better mileage from high octane gas.

(https://www.quirkbooks.com/sites/default/files/styles/blog_detail_featured_image/public/u1125/tin-foil-hat.png?itok=9wPDRig2)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 04, 2022, 04:49:21 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 04, 2022, 03:47:45 PM

$3.18 at my Costco.  $3.13 at the quickie mart down the block.

You've convinced him he's headed to Austin

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 04, 2022, 04:52:39 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2022, 03:53:20 PM

Hmm... Any houses for sale in your neighborhood?

Ha! just saw that,great minds and all that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2022, 04:52:45 PM

High octane gasoline actually has a bit less energy than regular gas.  For one thing, ethanol is a cheap octane enhancer, and it has a lot less energy than regular gasoline.  But ethanol aside, there is a slight difference because it has more branched hydrocarbons in it (premium).

The gas companies like to claim it has more detergent additives, but in reality it rarely does.  Costco sells top fuel gasoline which is a good type to use.  Borh grade have it.

My car recommends premium, but it runs fine on midgrade, I haven't tried regular in it.  Costco doesn't sell a midgrade.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2022, 04:55:40 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 04, 2022, 04:52:45 PM

My car recommends premium, but it runs fine on midgrade, I haven't tried regular in it.  Costco doesn't sell a midgrade.

Technically it probably "runs fine" on midgrade because your ECU is adjusting timing to compensate for the midgrade gas and avoid knocking... So your example would likely be a loss of power with midgrade relative to premium. 

That's what you get for buying a fancy German hot hatch...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2022, 05:05:18 PM

Yeah, no doubt, but if the loss of hp is not detectable ...  and it's not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 04, 2022, 06:57:28 PM

my car says I have to put 91 or higher. 99% of gas stations only have 87, 89, or 93. 93 is $5/gal here. Cost me $85 to fill up a sedan. I'm gonna go broke soon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 04, 2022, 07:04:23 PM

B.R.A.D. Is correct. Unfortunately for me I don’t have an engine that’s not high compression.  X3m competition, SQ8 ECU tuned to adapt to up to 104 octane, RS five which is ECU tune to adapt up to 104 octane, and newly arriving Ford GT500 which requires 93 octane

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 04, 2022, 07:15:04 PM

when I was a kid my family had a 61 Ford Galaxy that had the habit of dieseling

when the ignition was turned off

It really impressed my friends

we would do a little dance when it would do it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 04, 2022, 09:46:41 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 04, 2022, 06:57:28 PM

my car says I have to put 91 or higher. 99% of gas stations only have 87, 89, or 93. 93 is $5/gal here. Cost me $85 to fill up a sedan. I'm gonna go broke soon.

It's quite obvious you should get an electric car.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2022, 09:55:44 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 04, 2022, 07:15:04 PM

when I was a kid my family had a 61 Ford Galaxy that had the habit of dieseling

when the ignition was turned off

It really impressed my friends

we would do a little dance when it would do it

my father had a 64 Galaxy 500 XL with the 302
great car
no dieseling

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 04, 2022, 10:10:11 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 04, 2022, 09:55:44 PM

my father had a 64 Galaxy 500 XL with the 302
great car
no dieseling

too bad you missed all the fun

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2022, 07:53:40 AM

Carbs were problems, often as not.  FI has really saved the ICE.

Starting your car used to be a bit of an adventure, each car seemed to have its own quirks when it was cold.

If you flooded the carb, the correct technique was to floor the gas pedal while starting which was counterintuitive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 05, 2022, 08:03:49 AM

I use 93. Can't find 91 anywhere really.

$4.65 at last fill.

$2.35 a year ago.

(https://i.imgur.com/oKYDjal.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 05, 2022, 08:08:21 AM

Speaking of things Biden did

https://twitter.com/USDOL/status/1499779222566539267?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2022, 08:14:41 AM

Do you believe Biden's policies had something to do with that?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 05, 2022, 08:16:27 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 05, 2022, 08:14:41 AM

Do you believe Biden's policies had something to do with that?

Probably as much as gas prices

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2022, 08:21:59 AM

College football: NCAA declines to add in-game penalties for fake injuries (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/College-football-NCAA-declines-to-add-in-game-penalties-for-fake-injuries-183844436/?fbclid=IwAR0ZxTSCg3c180T5h8f6OauvlfQB02OLdNSuowJLNZynFq4-lqzVEaTLQds)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2022, 08:22:59 AM

It's predictable of course that a President will accrue blame, or credit, for "things that happen" even when there is no clear line between his actions and what happened.

I see folks on FB, a fair number of them, claiming that if we opened the Keystone XL pipeline (which has not been built), gas prices would recede because it would enable more US oil production.

I realize FB is a foggy window on what folks actually think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2022, 08:45:40 AM

Our society has become a slave to the general consensus of laypeople........thats what social media is.  A chance for everyone (literally everyone) to chime in on anything (and I mean anything), from your dinner photo to an actual war.

What some may have forgotten and what many (youngsters) may have never known is that the general consensus of laypeople is completely irrelevant in actuality.  
It's forced an idea that I've hated since the first time I heard it to become true:  perception is reality.

It wasn't......until social media came along.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2022, 08:46:48 AM

we elect leaders based on the general consensus of lay people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2022, 08:48:56 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 05, 2022, 08:08:21 AM

Speaking of things Biden did

https://twitter.com/USDOL/status/1499779222566539267?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

why does Joe hate natives?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2022, 08:58:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 05, 2022, 08:46:48 AM

we elect leaders based on the general consensus of lay people.

Yeah.  It's a bad system.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2022, 09:00:40 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 05, 2022, 08:48:56 AM

why does Joe hate natives?

Many natives get a check every month and for some, it's enough to not seek a job.  if they're excluded from this, then another reason theirs is higher is that the larger reservations utterly lack job opportunities.  

Most natives in AZ who seek out a job drive 4+ hours to Phoenix every Sunday night and back home every Friday evening.  They're home 2 days a week.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2022, 09:13:43 AM

I'm aware

I live near Sioux City.  My home office is in Sioux Falls.

Familiar with natives

just not familiar with Joe's influence to keep them unemployed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2022, 09:37:58 AM

something you learn when in the CATV business

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/275241444_10158608667776074_6249715325753118614_n.png?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=TqcunvyNfW8AX-fEiDo&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_lbBRiuLF41Gn7-cnkAYGwHpfjnM_uT26UktV1589nIg&oe=6227B123)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 05, 2022, 09:40:24 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 05, 2022, 08:08:21 AM

Speaking of things Biden did

https://twitter.com/USDOL/status/1499779222566539267?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

When the economy is in the tank, due to lockdown Larry's and mandate Marty's, there is no place to go but up.

Be it known that unemployment in places like where I live never really tanked.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2022, 10:28:12 AM

Chill day at home, babysitting a pot of pho broth and watching golf on TV... Probably a good day to finally do my taxes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2022, 10:50:57 AM

I'm headed to the Half Moon bar for $2.50 bloody marys with the boys.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2022, 12:38:42 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 04, 2022, 09:46:41 PM

It's quite obvious you should get an electric car. 

my car is still only a 2020, and I've had it just over 2 years. my next car will definitely be an electric car though! 

I do drive quite a lot though, which might give me pause. There have been too many times I can count where I've been on E and rolled into a gas station in the nick of time. One thing that gives me pause about turning to EV right now is the EV charging infrastructure. They aren't on every block in every city off every highway like gas stations.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2022, 12:41:43 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2022, 08:58:14 AM

Yeah.  It's a bad system.

bad system, but better than all the rest imo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 05, 2022, 12:50:44 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2022, 08:45:40 AM

Our society has become a slave to the general consensus of laypeople........thats what social media is.  A chance for everyone (literally everyone) to chime in on anything (and I mean anything), from your dinner photo to an actual war.

If they saw my dinner photo that would cure them of the need to check in with social media

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2022, 12:53:39 PM

Had some fun watching a Sikorsky Sky Crane this morning replacing windows in a building near us.

(https://i.imgur.com/aMrnC3p.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2022, 12:56:45 PM

The building has these projections above the actual building and the helo was flying between them.

(https://i.imgur.com/NmbYoPL.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2022, 12:59:25 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/z2ZzRTs.png)+

Stock photo showing the bat ears.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2022, 02:13:10 PM

Mmm... Pho.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2022, 02:17:03 PM

Is that the real stuff or the feaux stuff?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 05, 2022, 09:18:30 PM

Not a fan of the Terminator reboot

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1500256493886578689?t=vTF7rvFSLR-X5aOfK-6DgA&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 05, 2022, 09:58:56 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2022, 02:13:10 PM

Mmm... Pho.

Love it, don't have the confidence to make it myself.  But it certainly makes me want to go out for some

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2022, 11:30:05 PM

Quote from: ELA on March 05, 2022, 09:58:56 PM

Love it, don't have the confidence to make it myself.  But it certainly makes me want to go out for some

It's not hard. But honestly if my wife didn't have a poultry allergy where we don't trust restaurants not to cheap out and use chicken to fortify their broth, I'd just pay for it.

But it's not rocket science. It's just soup.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 06, 2022, 06:09:26 AM

Very simple to make pho.

Maybe later.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 06, 2022, 07:39:00 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2022, 11:30:05 PM

It's not hard. But honestly if my wife didn't have a poultry allergy where we don't trust restaurants not to cheap out and use chicken to fortify their broth, I'd just pay for it.

But it's not rocket science. It's just soup.

… rocket soup?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 06, 2022, 07:46:10 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 06, 2022, 07:39:00 AM

… rocket soup?

Damn Elon Musk branching out yet again

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 06, 2022, 08:08:24 AM

"This bass features a 34" scale for easy playability, a sleek matte black finish, and powerful EMG pickups for deep low end tone, along with two solar cells that make this the first eco-friendly instrument on the market to reduce a player's footprint on the planet. And additionally, it also features an insanely powerful propane-fueled flamethrower if you also want to destroy a 100-foot radius of the planet as well. THIS BABY JUST SIMPLY RIPS!" shouted Musk over the blaring sound of Pantera's seminal hit "Cowboys From Hell" as he thrust devil fingers in the air and headbanged his way across the packed convention stage.

(https://bassmagazine.com/.image/t_share/MTYyOTU5MDQ4MTE3ODU1ODMy/elon-musk-flame-bass.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 06, 2022, 09:02:29 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/mWaBkL1.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 06, 2022, 10:14:49 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 06, 2022, 09:02:29 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/mWaBkL1.png)

😂😂😂😂.    🍿. I just wait for the triggered to come in on this like the Ukraine thread. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 06, 2022, 10:19:04 AM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/275303605_10228207521912198_4805487320308538631_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=8Z_X66TgOIsAX9T89zH&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT-aFLiEEJdCMiLqD8eP9pADvPU6vLHB7_uicyUIy-ayxg&oe=62293F63)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 06, 2022, 10:21:34 AM

Cincy,

Just wondering, did current supply dry up or was it a spike in demand that caused gasoline prices to jump last week?

or was it just the threat of supply might decrease that caused the oil companies to gouge consumers? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 06, 2022, 10:21:46 AM

I shoulda got a diesel. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 06, 2022, 10:25:14 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 06, 2022, 10:14:49 AM

😂😂😂😂.    🍿. I just wait for the triggered to come in on this like the Ukraine thread. 

This is the thread for politics. The Ukraine and Corona threads aren't.

I suspect that's why badge posted it here instead of the Corona thread.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 06, 2022, 10:37:49 AM

Correct. It's just a funny from the Bee, of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2022, 10:45:45 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 06, 2022, 10:21:34 AM

Cincy,

Just wondering, did current supply dry up or was it a spike in demand that caused gasoline prices to jump last week?

or was it just the threat of supply might decrease that caused the oil companies to gouge consumers?

Supply tightened obviously, futures prices spiked, and short delivery prices spiked.  It is actually difficult right now to buy Russian oil, banking sanctions.

Demand could be up some because of military activities, I don't know about that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 06, 2022, 11:10:06 AM

I don't think supply changed enough to cause an issue last week.  

I could be wrong, perhaps we were getting oil from Ukraine.

supply to the refinery might have been a very small thing, but the gasoline that was already refined and coming out of pumps wasn't affected

future things spiked, but that was simply an excuse to raise prices at the pump

just like when the president says something - just an excuse to gouge the comsumer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 06, 2022, 11:20:24 AM

oil is a traded commodity and its value will always reflect the market value even if its already been processed

thus the price of gasoline will also reflect the market value even if its already in the pumps

as an example golds value will be market even for that bar thats in your desk drawer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2022, 11:26:05 AM

Costco doesn't seem to raise prices as fast as others, I think they raise it when they get a new shipment.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 06, 2022, 11:28:25 AM

so, it's not truly supply and demand

just perceived supply & demand in the future

so,  ConocoPhillips (NYSE:COP) is innocent and doesn't really set the price of it's gasoline?

it just rides the market price

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 06, 2022, 11:39:39 AM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/275308632_10225045933882731_5021975852730410872_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s720x720&_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=7aG_gPQdnZsAX_yqTxc&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT8C_a9ZscFNbhcvSEstGXIQc6ldneg-cwDdMufFEnTOwg&oe=6228E7C1)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 06, 2022, 02:56:36 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 06, 2022, 10:19:04 AM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/275303605_10228207521912198_4805487320308538631_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=8Z_X66TgOIsAX9T89zH&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT-aFLiEEJdCMiLqD8eP9pADvPU6vLHB7_uicyUIy-ayxg&oe=62293F63)

:043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 06, 2022, 10:51:23 PM

NEW YORK (AP) — The price of regular gasoline broke $4 per gallon (3.8 liters) on average across the U.S. on Sunday for the first time since 2008.

During the first full week of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, the price of regular gas rose by almost 41 cents, according to the AAA motor club.

That represents the second largest jump in average national prices in a week, GasBuddy reported.

“As Russia’s war on Ukraine continues to evolve and we head into a season where gas prices typically increase, Americans should prepare to pay more for gas than they ever have before,” Patrick De Haan, head of petroleum analysis for GasBuddy, said in a statement.

The all-time high for average gasoline prices was set in July 17, 2008 at $4.10 per gallon. (of course, George W. Bush was to blame)

Neither President Joe Biden nor Congress has moved to ban the import of Russian oil or place energy sanctions on the country, which could have major global economic repercussions.

On Sunday, California had the highest average price per gallon among U.S. states at $5.29, while Missouri had the lowest at around $3.60.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 07, 2022, 10:23:20 AM

Bacon-wrapped filet seared on the Little Joe and then finished at 225 on the Traeger. With sous vide beets and baked potato. Served with a bottle of Dusi Vineyard Zinfandel from Tobin James. 

(https://i.imgur.com/CpxWYi9.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 07, 2022, 10:43:46 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 07, 2022, 10:23:20 AM

Bacon-wrapped filet seared on the Little Joe and then finished at 225 on the Traeger. With sous vide beets and baked potato. Served with a bottle of Dusi Vineyard Zinfandel from Tobin James.

(https://i.imgur.com/CpxWYi9.jpg)

I’d pay money for that. Looks delish.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 07, 2022, 11:00:43 AM

I hate beets

I really hate beets

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2022, 11:13:18 AM

F-16 Vs MiG-29: when the mighty Viper dogfighted with the Fulcrum for the first time - The Aviation Geek Club (https://theaviationgeekclub.com/f-16-vs-mig-29-when-the-mighty-viper-dogfighted-with-the-fulcrum-for-the-first-time/)



(https://i.imgur.com/VZbxBmc.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 07, 2022, 11:38:28 AM

Is dogfighted a word?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 07, 2022, 12:10:52 PM

Dog-fought?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 07, 2022, 12:18:18 PM

was it the mig-29 or 31 that was ridiculously fast but not very maneuverable? Think it went like 2,000 mph top speed but maneuvered like shit. 

F-16 was in service forever. Kinda surprised F-22 is scheduled to be retired so soon. Think 2030.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2022, 12:21:00 PM

The MiG-25 Foxbat was their fast interceptor, built to intercept our B-70, which we never built for use.

I have a notion we could use B-1Bs today with AMRAAMs on rotary pylons to take out fighters at some distance.  They use F-16 radars, or once did.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 07, 2022, 01:23:35 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 07, 2022, 12:18:18 PM

 Kinda surprised F-22 is scheduled to be retired so soon. Think 2030.

Of course we wouldn't want the stand up fella's at Raytheon Technologies,Lockheed Martin,Boeing to have to tighten their belts would we?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 07, 2022, 01:24:24 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 07, 2022, 12:10:52 PM

Dog-fought?

Those applying for Austin citizenship

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2022, 01:33:48 PM

The F-22 will go away, eventually. But not before the Air Force gets comfortable with its successor. (defensenews.com) (https://www.defensenews.com/air/2021/05/13/the-f-22-is-going-away-eventually-but-not-before-the-air-force-gets-comfortable-with-its-successor/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2022, 01:55:36 PM

Yeager's NF-104 Crash – Sierra Hotel Aeronautics (https://sierrahotel.net/blogs/news/yeagers-nf-104-crash?_pos=1&_sid=122c85737&_ss=r&fbclid=IwAR0OcjuB4skUf2ly79AYddP0NMRIKYjt2wxmSqH9PcoSXLQyt3-bo0m2j2U)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 07, 2022, 03:04:50 PM

Indirectly related to Russian invasion, but not related to Ukraine, so I guess I'll put it here:

https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1500891170964217862?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1500891170964217862%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fmobile.twitter.com%2FEuromaidanPress%2Fstatus%2F1500891170964217862%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc255Etfw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 07, 2022, 04:36:37 PM

Boo hoo.

Russia on Monday published an official list of foreign states it considers to be "unfriendly," as President Vladimir 

Business dealings in Russia involving these countries will now require special government authorization, Russia said, in a response to crippling sanctions imposed by Western nations over the invasion.

The countries and territories considered "unfriendly" by the Russian government include "Australia, Albania, Andorra, United Kingdom, including Jersey, Anguilla, British Virgin Islands, Gibraltar, the member states of the European Union (https://www.newsweek.com/topic/european-union), Iceland, Canada, Liechtenstein, Micronesia, Monaco, New Zealand, Norway, Republic of Korea, San Marino, North Macedonia, Singapore, the United States, Taiwan, Ukraine, Montenegro, Switzerland, Japan," according to a decree published on the government's website.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 07, 2022, 04:56:34 PM

Would have been a lot shorter and easier to just list the countries that Putin actually says are okay to deal with, which of course reads like a who's who of all of the typical global bad actors.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 07, 2022, 04:58:41 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 07, 2022, 04:36:37 PM

Boo hoo.

Russia on Monday published an official list of foreign states it considers to be "unfriendly," as President Vladimir

Business dealings in Russia involving these countries will now require special government authorization, Russia said, in a response to crippling sanctions imposed by Western nations over the invasion.

The countries and territories considered "unfriendly" by the Russian government include "Australia, Albania, Andorra, United Kingdom, including Jersey, Anguilla, British Virgin Islands, Gibraltar, the member states of the European Union (https://www.newsweek.com/topic/european-union), Iceland, Canada, Liechtenstein, Micronesia, Monaco, New Zealand, Norway, Republic of Korea, San Marino, North Macedonia, Singapore, the United States, Taiwan, Ukraine, Montenegro, Switzerland, Japan," according to a decree published on the government's website.

reminds me of this


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SczxwCSt1F8

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 07, 2022, 05:05:53 PM

Apple deletes Russia from its world map.

(https://i.imgur.com/nQddY0l.png)

They forgot the eliminate that little piece of Russia next to Poland. Unless they are giving it to Poland.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 07, 2022, 05:07:12 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 07, 2022, 05:05:53 PM

Apple deletes Russia from its world map.

(https://i.imgur.com/nQddY0l.png)

this has got to be a joke lol

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 07, 2022, 05:07:53 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 07, 2022, 05:07:12 PM

this has got to be a joke lol

The Bee, baby. lon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 07, 2022, 05:11:09 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 07, 2022, 05:07:53 PM

The Bee, baby. lon.

Lol. I was gonna say, no one is that woke. Not even Apple. Apple claims to be woke, but their CEO makes about 1,500x more per year what an average employee there makes and their products are all made in China by slaves. 

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/w4tqgD0xKmc

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 07, 2022, 08:07:05 PM

US gasoline prices rise again on talk of banning Russian oil
By DAVID KOENIG


https://apnews.com/article/us-gas-prices-rise-russian-oil-6a308ee99130ce58f549336c046372ee (https://apnews.com/article/us-gas-prices-rise-russian-oil-6a308ee99130ce58f549336c046372ee)

not from supply issues

from potential supply issues

________________________

The United States is the world’s largest oil producer — ahead of Saudi Arabia and Russia — but it is also the biggest oil consumer, and it can’t meet that staggering demand with domestic crude alone.

The U.S. imported 245 million barrels of oil from Russia last year — about 8% of all U.S. oil imports — up from 198 million barrels in 2020. That’s less than the U.S. gets from Canada or Mexico but more than it imported last year from Saudi Arabia.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 07, 2022, 11:07:53 PM

Russia and Ukraine account for 30% of exported wheat

bread hasn't gone up as much as gasoline

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 08, 2022, 01:44:36 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 07, 2022, 11:07:53 PM

Russia and Ukraine account for 30% of exported wheat

bread hasn't gone up as much as gasoline

All based on fear.  HOW AM I GOING TO DRIVE TO THE STORE TO GET MORE BREAD?!?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 08, 2022, 01:47:35 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 07, 2022, 11:07:53 PM

Russia and Ukraine account for 30% of exported wheat

People with gluten allergies:
(https://i.imgur.com/hKOMbgu.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2022, 06:33:58 AM

Turning Russia into an Ocean would be one way to combat sea level rise.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2022, 07:38:49 AM

I got to thinking about this whole Russia fiasco and the consequences it and its people face.

Putin has essentially, in two weeks, managed to turn his country into North Korea. 

Isolated. Sanctioned. Paranoid. Broke.

Companies are pulling out. Banks are pulling out. Even fast food companies are starting to pull the plug.


Nice work, comrade.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2022, 08:18:40 AM

The real question is if/when somehow Russians are able to get him out of there.  I don't any notion of how probable that might be.  I'm sure ordinary Russians feel a massive pinch, but I doubt they have much real voice in this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2022, 09:42:58 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 08, 2022, 09:22:11 AM

The situation is ugly. 

You have innocent people being slaughtered in Ukraine as well as their property and possessions.

Here inflation is running rampant and getting substantially worse by the day, with each move contributing even more to that issue.

And apparently we’re going to give planes to Poland which may or may not be a good move.

It’s above my pay grade, but I really don’t like where this is going.

I fear a global recession or even depression is possible if not likely, as well as an escalation which drags us into serious military action.

This administration and congress is officially an unmitigated disaster. 


There. 

I said it.

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - that is good right now, and the CCP loves this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 08, 2022, 09:50:02 AM

He's got to be feeling a bit tense.One of his inner circle officers may have the opportunity to off him.Like a 10 second time frame as he's arriving/leaving.Let's hope the sanctions and partisans can hold out for that,the country has to be feeling the pinch.Hard to believe they could faff things up worse than our so called gov't

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 08, 2022, 10:03:47 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2022, 09:42:58 AM

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - that is good right now, and the CCP loves this.

I'm sure things may be simmering underneath behind their wall. People remember their leaders boarding/welding buildings enterences shut and how many friends/family they've lost. While their "Statesmen" told the rest of the world that there is nothing wrong here. We have to get these shit stains here to bring back those jobs that corporate send over there decades ago just so they could line their pockets with the difference. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2022, 10:18:44 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/ca9gwJm.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 08, 2022, 10:44:13 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 08, 2022, 08:18:40 AM

The real question is if/when somehow Russians are able to get him out of there.  I don't any notion of how probable that might be.  I'm sure ordinary Russians feel a massive pinch, but I doubt they have much real voice in this.

my guess is the West's reaction is just increasing his power within his own country. Look at Castro. Look at Saddam. Look at North Korea. Look at Iran. Look at Venezuela. All our sanctions and actions did in those instances was entrench the leader and make him more powerful with greater grip on his country than he was before. 

This foreign policy analyst who has done a lot of work for Washington Post and Fox News breaks it down like this, hard to disagree with him.


https://twitter.com/ClintEhrlich/status/1500996394659696640?s=20&t=q-n7_XwWY522iAdPz7cLVQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 08, 2022, 10:49:48 AM

Could be true.

And yet I don't think the West should have reacted any differently.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 08, 2022, 10:57:10 AM

Russia has been ruled by tinhorn dictators for most of the last 400 years. 

Yet I agree, I don't see anything different that the West should have done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 08, 2022, 11:29:37 AM

and this is why people despise out of touch celebrities.....dude makes $15 million a year, is worth $100 million and drives a $100,000+ Tesla Model S - "I'll pay $15 a gallon!" 

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1501231910227361793?s=20&t=zFki6lA4ipNByTTgG_DOrQ

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNU7fmuXsAcTfXY?format=jpg&name=small)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 08, 2022, 11:33:31 AM

Colbert is a jackass, no doubt about it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 08, 2022, 11:43:18 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 08, 2022, 11:33:31 AM

Colbert is a jackass, no doubt about it.

I feel like most of these people are jackasses. I can't stand when people like DiCaprio yaps on about climate change then jet sets all over the world in private jets (there was even a story that he flew 8,000 miles round trip on a private jet to pick up an enviornmental award)  and charters mega-yachts filled with super models to cruise around miami or the mediterranean. guy chartered a nearly 500 ft mega yacht which burns like 400 gallons of diesel fuel every hour literally just to watch the world cup.

But he drives a prius and plants trees so it's all cool. Lol. If he really cared about climate change, he wouldn't be flying everywhere in private jets or chartering mega yachts. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 08, 2022, 11:46:55 AM

I bet Sean Penn does stuff like that, too.  I haven't read anything in particular, but he's always seemed like a smarmy little troll.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 08, 2022, 12:01:45 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 08, 2022, 11:29:37 AM

and this is why people despise out of touch celebrities.....dude makes $15 million a year, is worth $100 million and drives a $100,000+ Tesla Model S - "I'll pay $15 a gallon!" 

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1501231910227361793?s=20&t=zFki6lA4ipNByTTgG_DOrQ

Dude... Did you watch the clip? It was on his show. It was the setup to a JOKE. Punchline being that a Tesla doesn't use gas so it's irrelevant. 

Maybe not the best joke, but I guarantee Colbert had a team of writers putting that monologue together. It's not the same as some celebrity spouting off in an interview that we all need to do our part--when they don't personally feel the sting of higher prices. 

The people criticizing Colbert here are the ones being tone-deaf. That's what he was going for!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 08, 2022, 12:11:53 PM

Hmmmmm...

Still, I stand by my statement.  Colbert is a jackass.

:)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2022, 12:19:58 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 08, 2022, 12:11:53 PM

Hmmmmm...

Still, I stand by my statement.  Colbert is a jackass.

:)

I used to watch David Letterman in a laid back sort of way

Man I never realized just how good he was until I watched Colbert

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2022, 12:21:19 PM

I gave up on watching any of those assclowns. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 08, 2022, 12:24:10 PM

Carson is the legend, and Letterman is an all-time great.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2022, 12:26:21 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2022, 12:21:19 PM

I gave up on watching any of those assclowns.

some of the things Letterman did was pretty funny

like velcro man


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BnTj6P2rzc

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 08, 2022, 12:33:04 PM

Does the B1G forum have any kind of equivalent to the Backporch?  I feel like a lot of the things we discuss could go on that type of thread.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 08, 2022, 12:34:08 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 08, 2022, 12:01:45 PM

Dude... Did you watch the clip? It was on his show. It was the setup to a JOKE. Punchline being that a Tesla doesn't use gas so it's irrelevant.

Maybe not the best joke, but I guarantee Colbert had a team of writers putting that monologue together. It's not the same as some celebrity spouting off in an interview that we all need to do our part--when they don't personally feel the sting of higher prices.

The people criticizing Colbert here are the ones being tone-deaf. That's what he was going for!

Yes, I did watch it. And imo it was a tone deaf joke that fell flat- the only part that was funny was the Saudi Arabia bit. But he's not the person to be making that kind of joke if you ask me. It comes across as someone that is completely devoid of self-awareness and someone that is completely out of touch the reality that everyday regular people face- which of course, he is. Probably why when the camera cut to his band leader the dudes face looked like WTF NO!

You're right- he's an extremely wealthy elite who can afford a $120,000 electric car and can withstand any amount of inflation or rising fuel prices- so it is irrelevant- to him.

He's not the head of a family or a single parent that is living pay check to pay check, struggling to pay rent, car payments, healthcare costs, insurance, and having to worry about putting food on the table. These people aren't laughing about rising fuel prices and the increase in inflation that that leads too. It doesn't track with him- it doesn't affect him or his life one way or another at all. Even a little bit. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2022, 12:36:29 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 08, 2022, 12:33:04 PM

Does the B1G forum have any kind of equivalent to the Backporch?  I feel like a lot of the things we discuss could go on that type of thread.

I think this is it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 08, 2022, 12:36:33 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2022, 12:21:19 PM

I gave up on watching any of those assclowns.

omg they are all so terrible. makes you really appreciate Letterman. like damn, forgot how good he was. not that i'd watch him a lot, but every now and then i would. can't even stomach the new guys. 

Kimmel is the worst, because well....he's not funny or intelligent at all. 

Colbert is pretty bad, but still has his moments. There are glimmers in there of the guy that used to be a hero of mine when he did the Colbert Report on Comedy Central. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2022, 12:37:07 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 08, 2022, 12:24:10 PM

Carson is the legend, and Letterman is an all-time great.

I watched Carson. Then Leno for a little bit. Then I quit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 08, 2022, 12:37:15 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 08, 2022, 12:01:45 PM

The people criticizing Colbert here are the ones being tone-deaf. That's what he was going for!

Perhaps he should have edited this priceless piece before moving forward. The middle class isn't dialed in to his humor from the perch of privilege.Gas prices thru the roof while he and his slappies he endorsed find that cute

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 08, 2022, 12:39:37 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 08, 2022, 12:36:33 PM

Kimmel is the worst, because well....he's not funny or intelligent at all.

Colbert is pretty bad, but still has his moments. There are glimmers in there of the guy that used to be a hero of mine when he did the Colbert Report on Comedy Central.

They actually use to be entertaining before splicing in their political POV. Not sure who if anyone I know watches either anymore

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 08, 2022, 12:40:58 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 08, 2022, 12:24:10 PM

Carson is the legend, and Letterman is an all-time great.

for sure. times have changed so much, heard Leno talk about back when Carson was doing his thing everything was more loose. these celebrities used to dress themselves, they didn't have all these handlers, stylists, and PR people telling them what to say, how to behave, how to dress. guests would come on and just be themselves with Carson. 

Speaking of Leno, he was maybe the best stand up of his era, but man when he was on the tonight show he was just so bleh. you could tell he didn't like it and was just doing it for the massive check. when he's on his own car show now or other peoples shows- it's like damn- that guy is hilarious. even Letterman- who used to be friends with Leno but then they kinda had a feud over Leno getting the tonight show- said that Leno was the funniest guy he ever met and the best comic he ever knew.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 08, 2022, 12:42:06 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 08, 2022, 12:33:04 PM

Does the B1G forum have any kind of equivalent to the Backporch?  I feel like a lot of the things we discuss could go on that type of thread.

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2022, 12:36:29 PM

I think this is it.

No the backporch seems more for pondering and kicking back. maybe I'll head over there until 2022 CFB Kick Off

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 08, 2022, 12:49:19 PM

Leno's interviews were so excruciatingly awkward and almost painful to watch.  Really, the worst I've ever seen in the business.

I guess his standup is funny?  I only ever saw him do the monologues which are sort of milquetoast and boring by design.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2022, 01:48:04 PM

Dont forget about Alka Seltzer man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAu0USchCrI

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2022, 02:30:10 PM

Lunch, dolsot BBB

(https://i.imgur.com/r1sKYnI.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 08, 2022, 02:48:56 PM

My lunch. I'm not always bougie...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 08, 2022, 02:52:17 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 08, 2022, 11:29:37 AM

and this is why people despise out of touch celebrities.....dude makes $15 million a year, is worth $100 million and drives a $100,000+ Tesla Model S - "I'll pay $15 a gallon!" 

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1501231910227361793?s=20&t=zFki6lA4ipNByTTgG_DOrQ

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNU7fmuXsAcTfXY?format=jpg&name=small)

Glenn is a contrarian and a shill out here begging for attention. Everyone is an out of touch elite except for the out of touch elites he stans for. And he’s a thin-skinned whiner to book.

(Also, taking a bland joke at face value because you get to act offended is more whiney shit. Like, it’s not a great joke, but it’s functionally meaningless unless you really want to have the butthurt feelings) 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2022, 04:04:12 PM

I view these folks as entertainers meant to garner ratings, with rarely anything to say worth hearing.  I put Carlson and Hannity and Maddow et al. in the same lump.

Entertainers.  Out for ratings.  It's akin to when I used to listen to "Game Day" and give any thought to their predictions, ha.  

I get more useful stuff here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2022, 04:17:46 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 08, 2022, 04:04:12 PM

I view these folks as entertainers meant to garner ratings, with rarely anything to say worth hearing.  I put Carlson and Hannity and Maddow et al. in the same lump.

Entertainers.  Out for ratings.  It's akin to when I used to listen to "Game Day" and give any thought to their predictions, ha. 

I get more useful stuff here.

ok here is your news for today

Biden is being a dipshit for not doing what it takes to restore oil production to Trump levels or even higher

Either he doesnt care about the American people or hes too stupid to know better

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2022, 04:23:39 PM

Our oil production is back to 2018 levels, behind 2019, but should match 2019 by 2023, so it isn't a complete disaster.  Could it be better?  Sure.  Is it completely awful? 

Nope.

(https://i.imgur.com/2KVhWxu.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2022, 04:30:23 PM

do you see the nose dive oil prod took with Biden taking office


that was caused by Biden undoing all of Trumps resolutions concerning Oil production


all he needs to do is restore these resolutions and production would be back up by years end


otherwise say hello to $7/gal gasoline which will cause prices across the board to go to record breaking levels

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 08, 2022, 04:30:29 PM

Looks to me like the impact of COVID was a lot more important than the impact of POTUS... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 08, 2022, 04:31:18 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 08, 2022, 02:52:17 PM

Glenn is a contrarian and a shill out here begging for attention. Everyone is an out of touch elite except for the out of touch elites he stans for. And he’s a thin-skinned whiner to book.

(Also, taking a bland joke at face value because you get to act offended is more whiney shit. Like, it’s not a great joke, but it’s functionally meaningless unless you really want to have the butthurt feelings)

yeah, well that's like your opinion, man.  

I happen to think Glenn Greenwald is a principled investigative reporter who has broken more important, worthwhile, groundbreaking stories on his own over the last say 15 years or so than basically the entire mainstream/corporate news press combined.

And it was a completely lame, out of touch piss poor joke by a f**king hack that hasn't been funny in at least 7-8 years. Colbert just collecting his $16 million a year being an uninquisitive, incurious, unoriginal company man hack. That's what it was. And Glenn Greenwald was correct to call it as such. My opinion, of course. Winky smiley face.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 08, 2022, 04:39:12 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 08, 2022, 04:30:29 PM

Looks to me like the impact of COVID was a lot more important than the impact of POTUS...

impact of covid is valid point. it caused demand to crash.

Having said that.... the POTUS at the time was able to get Saudi Arabia and it's toy OPEC (kinda like NATO is our toy, OPEC is theirs) and Russia to agree to slash production and end an oil price war. Said POTUS was also able to get Saudi/OPEC to increase production in 2018 when he wanted price of oil to cool down. Biden has attempted this and been laughed out of the room by the Saudis. They won't even take his call.

It is beyond stupid to suggest the POTUS does not have sway over the price of oil. He does. An administration can start wars (which leads to uncertainty and price instability), restrict drilling permits or increase drilling permits, can ban oil leases and exploration for oil on federally leased lands, and then a Presidents ability- or in Biden's case I should say complete lack of ability- to play negotiator with the Saudis to get them to either ramp up or ramp down production- all of it has direct impact on price of oil.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 08, 2022, 04:40:25 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 08, 2022, 04:31:18 PM

yeah, well that's like your opinion, man. 

I happen to think Glenn Greenwald is a principled investigative reporter who has broken more important, worthwhile, groundbreaking stories on his own over the last say 15 years or so than basically the entire mainstream/corporate news press combined.

And it was a completely lame, out of touch piss poor joke by a f**king hack that hasn't been funny in at least 7-8 years. Colbert just collecting his $16 million a year being an uninquisitive, incurious, unoriginal company man hack. That's what it was. And Glenn Greenwald was correct to call it as such. My opinion, of course. Winky smiley face.

Glenn Greenwald did not in any way give it the context it deserves, though...

Quote

Stephen Colbert -- who earns $15 million per year from CBS and has a net worth approaching $100 million -- says it's worth it to endure higher gas prices so that you have a "clean conscience."

It's presented by Greenwald that Colbert actually meant what he said, when it was just the set-up to a joke. 

I would completely understand Greenwald clutching at pearls if Colbert said that in an interview, or in literally ANY context where it was supposed to be taken seriously. But he was on stage, performing.

If we are supposed to think that everything a comedian says on stage is what they well and truly believe--well then the comedians that you love the most must be some pretty foul people. Should we also think that everything Eminem--who you appeared to like back in his heydey--was saying was something that conveyed his literal and true heartfelt beliefs in all of his raps? 

Or do we give just a LITTLE leeway to comedians and performers, when they're actually engaged in performance? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 08, 2022, 04:42:41 PM

OPEC: There's 'no capacity in the world' that could replace Russia's 7 million barrels a day in oil supply

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/commodities/oil-opec-supply-brent-crude-price-markets-commodities-russia-ukraine-2022-3

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2022, 04:43:08 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 08, 2022, 04:30:29 PM

Looks to me like the impact of COVID was a lot more important than the impact of POTUS...

Id agree with you if Biden had not taken the actions he had to hold down oil production

When is the last time Biden sat down with the oil companies to get their input

if he would just reverse his directives and reinstall the ones he inherited when taking office the problem would be solved

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 08, 2022, 04:45:17 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 08, 2022, 04:40:25 PM

Glenn Greenwald did not in any way give it the context it deserves, though...



It's presented by Greenwald that Colbert actually meant what he said, when it was just the set-up to a joke.

I would completely understand Greenwald clutching at pearls if Colbert said that in an interview, or in literally ANY context where it was supposed to be taken seriously. But he was on stage, performing.

If we are supposed to think that everything a comedian says on stage is what they well and truly believe--well then the comedians that you love the most must be some pretty foul people. Should we also think that everything Eminem--who you appeared to like back in his heydey--was saying was something that conveyed his literal and true heartfelt beliefs in all of his raps?

Or do we give just a LITTLE leeway to comedians and performers, when they're actually engaged in performance?

Yeah, maybe Glenn didn't use his words wisely. But I agree with his sentiment- Colbert is trying to make a joke about something that just isn't funny and he's an out of touch hack. I think an actual stand up comedian, Tim Dillon said it better here.

https://twitter.com/TimJDillon/status/1501247860645539852?s=20&t=-5B0wiG1_SrwYhKQe0nMhA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 08, 2022, 04:46:16 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 08, 2022, 04:39:12 PM

impact of covid is valid point. it caused demand to crash.

Having said that.... the POTUS at the time was able to get Saudi Arabia and it's toy OPEC (kinda like NATO is our toy, OPEC is theirs) and Russia to agree to slash production and end an oil price war. Said POTUS was also able to get Saudi/OPEC to increase production in 2018 when he wanted price of oil to cool down. Biden has attempted this and been laughed out of the room by the Saudis. They won't even take his call.

It is beyond stupid to suggest the POTUS does not have sway over the price of oil. He does. An administration can start wars (which leads to uncertainty and price instability), restrict drilling permits or increase drilling permits, can ban oil leases and exploration for oil on federally leased lands, and then a Presidents ability- or in Biden's case I should say complete lack of ability- to play negotiator with the Saudis to get them to either ramp up or ramp down production- all of it has direct impact on price of oil.

That's fair. I'm responding to 320 who seems to blame Biden for US domestic oil production problems.

He points to a nosedive in CD's chart. The biggest nosedive appears to be in April 2020, which is adequately explained by COVID. 

There's another nosedive in February 2021, which was in fact one month after Biden took office. But then it recovered to above January numbers in March 2021, and rose from there. 

And February 2021 had its own problems: 

February 2021 weather triggers largest monthly decline in U.S. natural gas production (https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=47896) (https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=47896#)

Looks to me like the Texas cold snap, that I would assume 320 remembers occurring last winter, probably had a bigger effect on oil production than Biden's inauguration, considering that the oil production immediately recovered a month later and went up from there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2022, 04:46:33 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 08, 2022, 04:42:41 PM

OPEC: There's 'no capacity in the world' that could replace Russia's 7 million barrels a day in oil supply

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/commodities/oil-opec-supply-brent-crude-price-markets-commodities-russia-ukraine-2022-3

but the us was only getting at the most 10% of that which could more then be offset by restoring production to prior levels.  and yes OPEC could do much more then they are doing instead of sitting back and counting their money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 08, 2022, 04:47:14 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 08, 2022, 04:43:08 PM

Id agree with you if Biden had not taken the actions he had to hold down oil production

When is the last time Biden sat down with the oil companies to get their input

if he would just reverse his directives and reinstall the ones he inherited when taking office the problem would be solved

even if the US ramped up production massively, world market still needs Russian oil. 

Per OPEC chief: 'no capacity in the world' that could replace Russia's 7 million barrels a day in oil supply

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/commodities/oil-opec-supply-brent-crude-price-markets-commodities-russia-ukraine-2022-3

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 08, 2022, 04:50:04 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 08, 2022, 04:43:08 PM

Id agree with you if Biden had not taken the actions he had to hold down oil production

When is the last time Biden sat down with the oil companies to get their input

if he would just reverse his directives and reinstall the ones he inherited when taking office the problem would be solved

Except that CD's chart shows that oil production has risen since Biden took office, and the chart further shows that the STEO (short term energy outlook), produced by the US Energy Information Administration (EIA), projects it to continue rising well into 2019 levels through the remainder of this year...

...and I suspect that chart was produced prior to this Russia invasion, which will lead to a spike in oil prices, and an interest in US producers pumping even more if they can. 

Your complaints aren't backed up by the facts, 320...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2022, 04:51:29 PM

Im not suggesting that we set oil production record highs

just get back to where we were which would be another 1.4 million B/day

this would not only offset the loss from Russia but then we could export some to Europe or where ever

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 08, 2022, 04:53:37 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 08, 2022, 04:46:33 PM

but the us was only getting at the most 10% of that which could more then be offset by restoring production to prior levels.  and yes OPEC could do much more then they are doing instead of sitting back and counting their money

yeah, but price of oil is tied to a worldwide exchange. the demand and supply and forecasting of future supply and future demand is what dictates the price. 

OPEC has said even if they increase production and even if US increases production- the world can't just magically make up the difference of the 7 million barrels of oil per day Russia is producing. 

US/UK so far I think is the only country that has banned Russian oil. UK is phasing out over 10 months though- not immediately banning. If the big purchasers of Russian oil follow US/UK lead- Germany, Netherlands, Italy, South Korea, and Japan - that could really start affecting price worldwide very negatively. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2022, 05:04:40 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 08, 2022, 04:53:37 PM

yeah, but price of oil is tied to a worldwide exchange. the demand and supply and forecasting of future supply and future demand is what dictates the price.

OPEC has said even if they increase production and even if US increases production- the world can't just magically make up the difference of the 7 million barrels of oil per day Russia is producing.

US/UK so far I think is the only country that has banned Russian oil. UK is phasing out over 10 months though- not immediately banning. If the big purchasers of Russian oil follow US/UK lead- Germany, Netherlands, Italy, South Korea, and Japan - that could really start affecting price worldwide very negatively.

back in 2017 OPEC was producing 34.47 million b/day compared to 29.48 million B/day currently so it would appear that they could at least produce another 5 million B/day if they wanted to

add that to US 1.5 million B/day increase and your there so with the US help we could make Russia's oil unimportant

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 08, 2022, 05:09:32 PM

China and Belarus are going to buy oil from Russia no matter what. Duh. UK/US combined account for 2.8% of Russian oil exports- China could easily make that up- especially if they are buying at a discount. 

Now IF Netherlands, Germany, South Korea, Poland, Italy, Finland, Japan, Slovakia, and Hungary all join US/UK - those 9 US/UK aligned countries are nearly 50% of all Russias oil exports. Can China really pick up all that slack? 

(https://i.insider.com/62272b7b913301001822bf2b?width=700&format=jpeg&auto=webp)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 08, 2022, 05:11:16 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 08, 2022, 05:04:40 PM

back in 2017 OPEC was producing 34.47 million b/day compared to 29.48 million B/day currently so it would appear that they could at least produce another 5 million B/day if they wanted to

add that to US 1.5 million B/day increase and your there so with the US help we could make Russia's oil unimportant

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/08/analysts-say-alternative-supplies-wouldnt-be-able-to-fully-replace-russian-oil.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2022, 05:19:17 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 08, 2022, 05:11:16 PM

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/08/analysts-say-alternative-supplies-wouldnt-be-able-to-fully-replace-russian-oil.html

if you read the article it says that OPEC couldnt produce more then 2 or 3 million B/day more unless they did some internal stuff

well all Im saying is that they were doing 5 million B/day more just 5 years ago and theres no reason to think they could not do it again it they wanted to

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2022, 05:44:19 PM

I guess another related point Id like to make is the fact that the US holds the most untapped oil reserves of any country in the world and there just is no reason to be dependent on another country for its oil


However we go about it we need to get to an oil production level that first takes care of our needs and then if the market is there can export some to our allies


Im not saying we should not explore other forms of energy but only that the first priority should be to satisfy our current energy needs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 08, 2022, 06:15:00 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 08, 2022, 05:44:19 PM

I guess another related point Id like to make is the fact that the US holds the most untapped oil reserves of any country in the world and there just is no reason to be dependent on another country for its oil

a) this isn't exactly true. Venezuela and Saudi Arabia have the most proven oil reserves of any countries in the entire world. Proven reserves are defined as reserves that have a 90% or greater chance of being present and economically viable for extraction/production. Venezuela has a little bit more proven reserves, Saudis reserves however are easier to extract and therefore far more profitable to extract. Even if US holds "most untapped reserves" - that could largely just be theoretical and extremely cost prohibitive to tap and therefore not worth a whole lot.

b) the US isn't dependent on another country for it's oil. we produce a ton of oil. but we also use a ton of oil. US military/DoD alone is the single largest consumer of oil in the world. US military consumes more oil than a lot of entire countries.

oil is a global market and price is affected by more than just US production. US is but a player in that global marketplace. Saudis/OPEC produce like 40% of all worlds oil. That organization alone and country of Saudi Arabia alone probably have the most sway over price of oil.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2022, 06:31:46 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 08, 2022, 12:24:10 PM

Carson is the legend, and Letterman is an all-time great.

you got the first half

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2022, 06:47:21 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 08, 2022, 06:15:00 PM

a) this isn't exactly true. Venezuela and Saudi Arabia have the most proven oil reserves of any countries in the entire world. Proven reserves are defined as reserves that have a 90% or greater chance of being present and economically viable for extraction/production. Venezuela has a little bit more proven reserves, Saudis reserves however are easier to extract and therefore far more profitable to extract. Even if US holds "most untapped reserves" - that could largely just be theoretical and extremely cost prohibitive to tap and therefore not worth a whole lot.

As my post states I was talking about untapped oil reserves not proven oil reserves and its true we are the largest holder of untapped oil in the world.  This again means to me we should not be dependent on anyone for our oil.

b) the US isn't dependent on another country for it's oil. we produce a ton of oil. but we also use a ton of oil. US military/DoD alone is the single largest consumer of oil in the world. US military consumes more oil than a lot of entire countries

If we are not dependent on another country for our oil then why dont we have a net export of oil instead of importing.   Under the current administration we went from being a net exporter of oil to being an importer of oil hence we are depending on other countries for some oil and that is what we should stop.


oil is a global market and price is affected by more than just US production. US is but a player in that global marketplace. Saudis/OPEC produce like 40% of all worlds oil. That organization alone and country of Saudi Arabia alone probably have the most sway over price of oil.

I was not talking about the price of oil but thanks for the info

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 08, 2022, 07:49:24 PM

have no idea who this publisher is, but why am I not surprised? Lol.

https://twitter.com/unusual_whales/status/1501266170371993600?s=20&t=rSGYM7r5_B25oRbh9QAkPw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2022, 09:48:19 PM

to be truly fair to them a lot of them use investment advisors who make these stock purchases without express permission

This doesnt change my view point that members of congress should not be in the market

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 08, 2022, 10:30:33 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 08, 2022, 09:48:19 PM

to be truly fair to them a lot of them use investment advisors who make these stock purchases without express permission

This doesnt change my view point that members of congress should not be in the market

While probably not possible, this does feel like a nice goal.

The other part reads like cold reading. Like, this war has been in the works for how long? And banning Russian oil was an inevitable possibility (not to mention general oil market disruption). Short of barring them from being in the market, some of them are gonna be paying smart stock people who could’ve read the super obvious tea leaves.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 09, 2022, 07:37:44 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 08, 2022, 04:30:29 PM

Looks to me like the impact of COVID was a lot more important than the impact of POTUS...

You could say that, sure.

Covid got the current president elected, with the most votes ever tallied, and the CCP loves it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 07:43:32 AM

Analysts on inflation, recession after Russian oil bans (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/09/analysts-on-inflation-recession-after-russian-oil-bans.html)

Matt Smith, lead oil analyst at Kpler, told CNBC on Wednesday that “self sanctions” would exacerbate the pressure in energy markets.
“Before even the sanctions were announced, I think that we would have had a lot of U.S. companies already balking at the idea of buying Russian crude oil products,” he said. He raised the example of Shell, which got “absolutely lambasted” for buying Russian oil at discounted rates. (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/06/shell-defends-decision-to-buy-discounted-oil-from-russia.html) It later apologized and said it would stop all purchases of Russian oil and gas (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/08/shell-apologizes-for-buying-russian-oil-announces-phased-withdrawal.html).
“I think self sanction is really kicking in. We’re seeing the buying actually being halted,” Smith said. “By all means, yes, self sanctioning is having as much impact as the sanctions themselves.”

This is what I saw saying yesterday, Russian oil was already off the US market, or nearly so.  China and India will no doubt step in to the extent possible, they can buy it at discount now.  

The drop in US oil production in February 2021 was weather related, the major drop was COVID related, since then production is climbing back, and yes, the recovery could have been steeper.  Oil companies got hit pretty hard by COVID, at one point oil futures went negative.  They worry major investments now that would produce oil in a year plus will be similarly unneeded.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 09, 2022, 08:02:10 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 09, 2022, 07:37:44 AM

You could say that, sure.

Covid got the current president elected, with the most votes ever tallied, and the CCP loves it.

I wish they did. Still waiting on some leadership that embraces competition from another country instead of blithely (and uselessly) waxing about how bad it is that other places are doing well economically.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 09, 2022, 08:49:08 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 09, 2022, 08:02:10 AM

I wish they did. Still waiting on some leadership that embraces competition from another country instead of blithely (and uselessly) waxing about how bad it is that other places are doing well economically.

yeah so this is just a really foolish way of thinking. 

China has been doing well economically largely at the expense of the US. Chinese markets are not free and open to US companies. US companies can't be listed on any of their stock exchanges. Chinese companies can and often are listed on our stock exchanges. It's incredibly hard for US investors to invest in China and basically impossible for a US investor to buy property over there. Chinese companies can come here- and do come here and invest in whatever the hell they want and buy as many properties as they want. US companies cannot operate in China without starting a new 50-50 joint-venture that is half-owned by the CCP- and the CCP FORCES said US companies to transfer technology and trade secrets. The US obviously does not do this.  China is the single largest intellectual property thief in the world. That is very bad for US firms who own said IP. China is also the single largest currency manipulator in the world- which helps them maintain their stranglehold on cheap competitive exports. China dumps commodities (steel, rare earths, solar panels) on the world market like clockwork to gain world dominance over entire industries.

People talk about Free Trade agreements all the time. Free trade agreements are nothing more than investors rights agreements. The destruction of US manufacturing and US off-shoring of millions of manufacturing jobs to China in order to use slave labor and have fewer environmental regulations is not free trade. Capital can flow freely, but labor cannot. If there was really "free trade" both sides would be subject to same environmental regulations and labor standards. China has been imposing tariffs on US products for oh ever. It was nice to finally see the US retaliate in kind.

The last guy was the first President to talk about any of this that I can remember. And he was dead right on all of it. My only gripe with him is that he did not hammer China hard enough. I wish the US would've crushed China in the late 90s or early 2000s like they are trying to crush Russia right now. We're so god damn intertwined now with China that it is impossible now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 08:54:15 AM

PepsiCo, Coca-Cola, McDonald’s and Starbucks each said Tuesday they are suspending business in Russia after that country’s invasion of Ukraine, a symbolic move by four iconic U.S. brands.

• PepsiCo (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/PEP) has sold it products in Russia for more than six decades.
• Coca-Cola (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/KO) came to Russia in 1992.
• McDonald’s (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/MCD) opened its first location in Moscow in 1990, just months before the fall of the Soviet Union.
• Starbucks (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/SBUX) entered the Russian market in 2007.

In recent days, before their announcements, all four had faced heavy criticism for continuing to operate in Russia, while other U.S. companies announced suspensions and paused sales.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 08:54:38 AM

McDonald's obviously caused the fall of the Soviet Union.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 09, 2022, 09:01:17 AM

This is a good read.

Saudi, Emirati Leaders Decline Calls With Biden During Ukraine Crisis - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-emirati-leaders-decline-calls-with-biden-during-ukraine-crisis-11646779430?mod=djemalertNEWS)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 09, 2022, 09:15:20 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 09, 2022, 08:02:10 AM

I wish they did. Still waiting on some leadership that embraces competition from another country instead of blithely (and uselessly) waxing about how bad it is that other places are doing well economically.

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 09, 2022, 08:49:08 AM

yeah so this is just a really foolish way of thinking.

China has been doing well economically largely at the expense of the US. Chinese markets are not free and open to US companies. US companies can't be listed on any of their stock exchanges. Chinese companies can and often are listed on our stock exchanges. It's incredibly hard for US investors to invest in China and basically impossible for a US investor to buy property over there. Chinese companies can come here- and do come here and invest in whatever the hell they want and buy as many properties as they want. US companies cannot operate in China without starting a new 50-50 joint-venture that is half-owned by the CCP- and the CCP FORCES said US companies to transfer technology and trade secrets. The US obviously does not do this.  China is the single largest intellectual property thief in the world. That is very bad for US firms who own said IP. China is also the single largest currency manipulator in the world- which helps them maintain their stranglehold on cheap competitive exports. China dumps commodities (steel, rare earths, solar panels) on the world market like clockwork to gain world dominance over entire industries.

People talk about Free Trade agreements all the time. Free trade agreements are nothing more than investors rights agreements. The destruction of US manufacturing and US off-shoring of millions of manufacturing jobs to China in order to use slave labor and have fewer environmental regulations is not free trade. Capital can flow freely, but labor cannot. If there was really "free trade" both sides would be subject to same environmental regulations and labor standards. China has been imposing tariffs on US products for oh ever. It was nice to finally see the US retaliate in kind.

The last guy was the first President to talk about any of this that I can remember. And he was dead right on all of it. My only gripe with him is that he did not hammer China hard enough. I wish the US would've crushed China in the late 90s or early 2000s like they are trying to crush Russia right now. We're so god damn intertwined now with China that it is impossible now.

In addition to all of this, Chinese manufacturing firms and OEMs are effectively state-owned.  They regularly operate at a loss in order to undercut, damage, and destroy their American competitors, and their losses are directly subsidized by the CCP.

This is not a free market at all.  There can never be market competition with China or any other totalitarian state.  China has been waging war on the US for over six decades and the fact that most Americans still don't realize it, is precisely why we're losing that war so badly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 09, 2022, 09:27:38 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 09, 2022, 09:15:20 AM

In addition to all of this, Chinese manufacturing firms and OEMs are effectively state-owned.  They regularly operate at a loss in order to undercut, damage, and destroy their American competitors, and their losses are directly subsidized by the CCP.

This is not a free market at all.  There can never be market competition with China or any other totalitarian state.  China has been waging war on the US for over six decades and the fact that most Americans still don't realize it, is precisely why we're losing that war so badly.

This could not be stated any better.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 09, 2022, 09:36:01 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 09, 2022, 09:15:20 AM

In addition to all of this, Chinese manufacturing firms and OEMs are effectively state-owned.  They regularly operate at a loss in order to undercut, damage, and destroy their American competitors, and their losses are directly subsidized by the CCP.

This is not a free market at all.  There can never be market competition with China or any other totalitarian state.  China has been waging war on the US for over six decades and the fact that most Americans still don't realize it, is precisely why we're losing that war so badly.

All true but with out Billionare's selling their souls for the proverbial 30 pieces of silver this would not be happening

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 09, 2022, 09:56:43 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 09, 2022, 09:36:01 AM

All true but with out Billionare's selling their souls for the proverbial 30 pieces of silver this would not be happening

Not sure I’d blame any specific US billionaires. 

The fault is with large US multinationals and their lobbying efforts to get the federal government to pass things like NAFTA and push for China to have most favored nation status and join the WTO. Those people were not stupid. These things were specifically done to shift production to corners of the world where there are few environmental regulations and cost of labor is so cheap and working conditions are so bad these people might as well be slaves. 

Capital is always going to seek the highest rate of return. Got no problem with that. But government is suppose to provide guard rails and try to make things fair and free. They have largely failed to do that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 09, 2022, 10:05:04 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 09, 2022, 09:15:20 AM

In addition to all of this, Chinese manufacturing firms and OEMs are effectively state-owned.  They regularly operate at a loss in order to undercut, damage, and destroy their American competitors, and their losses are directly subsidized by the CCP.

This is not a free market at all.  There can never be market competition with China or any other totalitarian state.  China has been waging war on the US for over six decades and the fact that most Americans still don't realize it, is precisely why we're losing that war so badly.

Amen brother. Perfectly stated. 

China openly says their goal is to end US hegemony and to upset the current world order and supplant the United States as the worlds greatest power. They make no secret or bones about it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 09, 2022, 10:19:56 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 09, 2022, 08:49:08 AM

yeah so this is just a really foolish way of thinking.

China has been doing well economically largely at the expense of the US. Chinese markets are not free and open to US companies. US companies can't be listed on any of their stock exchanges. Chinese companies can and often are listed on our stock exchanges. It's incredibly hard for US investors to invest in China and basically impossible for a US investor to buy property over there. Chinese companies can come here- and do come here and invest in whatever the hell they want and buy as many properties as they want. US companies cannot operate in China without starting a new 50-50 joint-venture that is half-owned by the CCP- and the CCP FORCES said US companies to transfer technology and trade secrets. The US obviously does not do this.  China is the single largest intellectual property thief in the world. That is very bad for US firms who own said IP. China is also the single largest currency manipulator in the world- which helps them maintain their stranglehold on cheap competitive exports. China dumps commodities (steel, rare earths, solar panels) on the world market like clockwork to gain world dominance over entire industries.

People talk about Free Trade agreements all the time. Free trade agreements are nothing more than investors rights agreements. The destruction of US manufacturing and US off-shoring of millions of manufacturing jobs to China in order to use slave labor and have fewer environmental regulations is not free trade. Capital can flow freely, but labor cannot. If there was really "free trade" both sides would be subject to same environmental regulations and labor standards. China has been imposing tariffs on US products for oh ever. It was nice to finally see the US retaliate in kind.

The last guy was the first President to talk about any of this that I can remember. And he was dead right on all of it. My only gripe with him is that he did not hammer China hard enough. I wish the US would've crushed China in the late 90s or early 2000s like they are trying to crush Russia right now. We're so god damn intertwined now with China that it is impossible now.

The problem in the thinking here is how helpless it is. Oh no, China has government regulations which prevent the United States from investing in Chinese countries? Who cares! That other countries can do business here is good for us - makes everyone more money. Waxing on about tariffs is fine - it had the overall effect of increasing prices, but overall had little effect at all. It was yet again a bunch of bluster over a useless gesture, something both political parties have in spades. 

No, the idea that we can't compete with China because they are a communist country is the epitome of foolish thinking. What we are seeing is a real lack of any sort direction of the country. It required an epic undertaking just to fix bridges and roads, and anything that has any sort of creativity, vision, or growth is immediately shot down by one party or the other in an effort to own the other party. That's the real advantage China has over the United States - it has a one party government with one aim, as opposed to two parties with no aim.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 10:21:33 AM

Imagine the US work force was paid what the Chinese work force is paid and companies could operate with almost not regulations on emissions, worker safety, HR, unions, etc.  Race to the bottom, it's called.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 09, 2022, 10:21:37 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 09, 2022, 10:05:04 AM

Amen brother. Perfectly stated.

China openly says their goal is to end US hegemony and to upset the current world order and supplant the United States as the worlds greatest power. They make no secret or bones about it.

So what? That is a good thing. China, by the way, has almost no interest in military invasions. They invest in many other countries. America needs to catch up, not whine endlessly about how terrible it is that other countries beat us at our own game.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 09, 2022, 10:52:15 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 09, 2022, 10:21:37 AM

So what? That is a good thing. China, by the way, has almost no interest in military invasions. They invest in many other countries. America needs to catch up, not whine endlessly about how terrible it is that other countries beat us at our own game.

China doesn't have the military power or capability to invade jack. Probably the only reason why they don't. Countries invade or not invade largely based on ability. China can't even effectively pull off an invasion of Taiwan. And they know this. Which is probably the main reason Taiwan has never been invaded. China has one operational aircraft carrier. Their fighter jets, ships, and most of their weapons systems are absolute junk. 

China invests in other countries to try and control said countries resources and build infrastructure so they can move Chinese goods as part of their belt and road initiative to try to reshape global trade in their image. They aren't investing in other countries out of the goodness of their little communist hearts.

US doesn't invest in other countries. We're stupid. We give sh*t away for free. US needs to STOP giving money away to countries for nothing and stop paying for the defense of free loaders in Europe. That's what we need to do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 10:55:45 AM

China did invade Vietnam, that was of course a long time back.  They may have learned not to invade militarily and play the Long Game.

I think they end up winning the Long Game, and they don't need Taiwan, the South China Sea is of more relevance, I think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 09, 2022, 10:57:02 AM

https://twitter.com/unusual_whales/status/1501266170371993600?s=20&t=y9tJRDsa_KsRmNgDCtZvaQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 10:59:30 AM

It was pretty obvious oil markets were going to get hit when Russia started making noise back in January or so.  I myself bought some oil companies, I have no inside info.

The question was whether Russia would really invade, I thought they would not, so I didn't buy much.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 11:00:45 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/4kHkDhm.png)

WTI is down 5.67% today, so if they bought yesterday, they are getting hit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 09, 2022, 11:07:20 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 09, 2022, 10:19:56 AM

The problem in the thinking here is how helpless it is. Oh no, China has government regulations which prevent the United States from investing in Chinese countries? Who cares! That other countries can do business here is good for us - makes everyone more money. Waxing on about tariffs is fine - it had the overall effect of increasing prices, but overall had little effect at all. It was yet again a bunch of bluster over a useless gesture, something both political parties have in spades.

No, the idea that we can't compete with China because they are a communist country is the epitome of foolish thinking. What we are seeing is a real lack of any sort direction of the country. It required an epic undertaking just to fix bridges and roads, and anything that has any sort of creativity, vision, or growth is immediately shot down by one party or the other in an effort to own the other party. That's the real advantage China has over the United States - it has a one party government with one aim, as opposed to two parties with no aim.

Yeah so I feel like a lot of stuff maybe just went over your head. It's not just about them essentially barring US investment over there, it's also the 100 other things those shady f**ks do which damages the US. 

The problem with the tariffs was that they weren't nearly tough enough in my opinion. They needed more bite. US probably needed to also give massive incentives to US companies willing to start pulling out of China. Give them tax breaks and subsidies to relocate to US. Or hell even Mexico. Just get them the hell out of China.

This country largely can't get bridges and roads fixed because we have a bought congress. It's a literal swamp filled with swap creatures like Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell. But I'll take that any day over a totalitarian dictatorship state. I guess your main gripe about America is that it's not a dictatorship? 

The real advantage the US has over China is freedom. US still the worlds engine of innovation. People are allowed to think and speak freely here (or at least used to be able to- seems like some whackjobs want to change that). China is a totalitarian prison for it's own citizens. And China doesn't innovate shit. They just rip off everyone else and make cheap junk imitations. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 09, 2022, 11:19:37 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 10:55:45 AM

China did invade Vietnam, that was of course a long time back.  They may have learned not to invade militarily and play the Long Game.

I think they end up winning the Long Game, and they don't need Taiwan, the South China Sea is of more relevance, I think.

My guess is West response to crushing Russia with sanctions for invading Ukraine probably giving Xi Jinping pause, but at same time EU/US economies are way too interlinked with Chinese economy to do these sort of sanctions. It just couldn't happen. We rely on them way too much. We don't really rely on Russia much and EU really only relies on them for energy.

I agree with you that they don't need Taiwan, but Xi Jinping seems way more hostile towards Taiwan and way more hardline on reunification and threats of force to make that happen. Plus after the sh*t he pulled in Hong Kong....like....f**k that guy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 09, 2022, 11:37:39 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 09, 2022, 09:01:17 AM

This is a good read.

Saudi, Emirati Leaders Decline Calls With Biden During Ukraine Crisis - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-emirati-leaders-decline-calls-with-biden-during-ukraine-crisis-11646779430?mod=djemalertNEWS)

yeah posted that the other day in the other thread. this is not good a good sign for oil prices and therefore gas prices. Biden has been asking Saudis repeatedly to increase production to try to cool oil prices and halt inflation for months and months even before Russia invaded Ukraine. Saudis have flatly refused him every time.

Saudi ruler MbS absolutely despises Biden, and MbS isn't stupid, he's purposely putting the screws to Biden. He wants to see Biden run out of office. Probably a bad idea on Biden's part to call call Saudi Arabia "a pariah state" and vow on the campaign trail to "make MbS pay" and to vow to "reset the relationship" and he probably shouldn't have publicly dissed and privately refused to personally talk to MbS for almost an entire year of being in office.

Somebody probably should've told him "hey Senile Old Joe- you stupid dumbf*ck- rule #1 in life - don't make checks that your ass can't cash" - but the corrupt bloviated blowhard who has never had a real job and has been nothing but a career do nothing politican for 50+ f**king years is just used to saying all kinds of lies and stupid shit to the American public knowing full well he can get away with it. Well, turns out you can't get away with saying whatever you want to/about a dictator who controls 40% of the worlds oil production and 60% of worlds oil exports via OPEC.

MbS has Biden by the balls right now. And Biden is already trying to pin the high oil prices and record inflation US was experiencing before Russia invaded Ukraine on Putin. It's beyond sad and pathetic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 09, 2022, 11:53:04 AM

so in line with being a giant piece of shit organization, Google/YouTube deletes a free critically acclaimed documentary from 2016 about Ukraine produced by and featuring Academy Award winner Oliver Stone. No reason stated. Just because. For shits and gigs. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 09, 2022, 11:54:05 AM

Sweden won't be joining NATO. Thank god at least one country is trying to defuse tensions.

https://twitter.com/yanisvaroufakis/status/1501262844188188683?s=20&t=fIHhG66QCC5FnvDCdq1rSw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 09, 2022, 11:54:17 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 09, 2022, 11:07:20 AM

Yeah so I feel like a lot of stuff maybe just went over your head. It's not just about them essentially barring US investment over there, it's also the 100 other things those shady f**ks do which damages the US.

The problem with the tariffs was that they weren't nearly tough enough in my opinion. They needed more bite. US probably needed to also give massive incentives to US companies willing to start pulling out of China. Give them tax breaks and subsidies to relocate to US. Or hell even Mexico. Just get them the hell out of China.

This country largely can't get bridges and roads fixed because we have a bought congress. It's a literal swamp filled with swap creatures like Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell. But I'll take that any day over a totalitarian dictatorship state. I guess your main gripe about America is that it's not a dictatorship?

The real advantage the US has over China is freedom. US still the worlds engine of innovation. People are allowed to think and speak freely here (or at least used to be able to- seems like some whackjobs want to change that). China is a totalitarian prison for it's own citizens. And China doesn't innovate shit. They just rip off everyone else and make cheap junk imitations.

It's not that it goes over my head, it's that it's wrong. It follows the constant pattern heard here lately that everyone successful has some sort of evil motive besides just making more money. I don't want America to be a dictatorship, but when China can do things to meaningfully improve their country and we just mostly gripe about how terrible everyone else is, is it any wonder we are falling behind?

Which brings me back to my original point. Leadership should embrace economic competition with China. Instead, feels like we are on the much more dangerous course of trying to pretend China is the enemy. China doesn't have a huge military because they don't want or need one. They aren't interested in invading other countries because that usually makes no sense. We don't seem to be limited by things like "making sense," so we spend all our money on trying to turn Afghanistan into our own fiefdom. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 11:55:10 AM

Sweden is not really in peril militarily of course.  I don't think the have a need to join NATO at this point.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 09, 2022, 11:55:32 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 09, 2022, 11:37:39 AM

yeah posted that the other day in the other thread. this is not good a good sign for oil prices and therefore gas prices. Biden has been asking Saudis repeatedly to increase production to try to cool oil prices and halt inflation for months and months even before Russia invaded Ukraine. Saudis have flatly refused him every time.

Saudi ruler MbS absolutely despises Biden, and MbS isn't stupid, he's purposely putting the screws to Biden. He wants to see Biden run out of office. Probably a bad idea on Biden's part to call call Saudi Arabia "a pariah state" and vow on the campaign trail to "make MbS pay" and to vow to "reset the relationship" and he probably shouldn't have publicly dissed and privately refused to personally talk to MbS for almost an entire year of being in office.

Somebody probably should've told him "hey Senile Old Joe- you stupid dumbf*ck- rule #1 in life - don't make checks that your ass can't cash" - but the corrupt bloviated blowhard who has never had a real job and has been nothing but a career do nothing politican for 50+ f**king years is just used to saying all kinds of lies and stupid shit to the American public knowing full well he can get away with it. Well, turns out you can't get away with saying whatever you want to/about a dictator who controls 40% of the worlds oil production and 60% of worlds oil exports via OPEC.

MbS has Biden by the balls right now. And Biden is already trying to pin the high oil prices and record inflation US was experiencing before Russia invaded Ukraine on Putin. It's beyond sad and pathetic.

This would be a good opportunity to try and modernize our transportation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 11:56:07 AM

China actually does have a huge military in terms of numbers.

In 2022, China had the largest armed forces in the world by active duty military personnel, with about 2 million active soldiers. India, the United States, North Korea, and Russia rounded out the top five largest armies respectively, each with over one million active military personnel.Feb 25, 2022

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 09, 2022, 12:03:25 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 09, 2022, 11:54:17 AM

It's not that it goes over my head, it's that it's wrong. It follows the constant pattern heard here lately that everyone successful has some sort of evil motive besides just making more money. I don't want America to be a dictatorship, but when China can do things to meaningfully improve their country and we just mostly gripe about how terrible everyone else is, is it any wonder we are falling behind?

Which brings me back to my original point. Leadership should embrace economic competition with China. Instead, feels like we are on the much more dangerous course of trying to pretend China is the enemy. China doesn't have a huge military because they don't want or need one. They aren't interested in invading other countries because that usually makes no sense. We don't seem to be limited by things like "making sense," so we spend all our money on trying to turn Afghanistan into our own fiefdom.

Yeah, except, it's not wrong. How do you not see this? You can't compete with someone who is a) cheating and b) won't even let you compete in their markets. There is no free trade or competition with China. They don't allow it. They've been ripping the US off for decades. Time to change that. Like now. Right. Now.

There is no need to pretend China is the enemy. Because: China is the enemy. They've been the enemy for decades. Instead of focusing on doing something about China the last 15 or 20 years, seems to me all we've been doing is irrationally "fearing", antagonizing and trying to contain and box in Russia- who really wasn't a threat to US or US hegemony- at all- when we should've been fearing China and trying to contain and box in China. Welp, too late for that now as we grew more and more dependent on China day by day.

China doesn't have a huge military because they aren't the worlds superpower and worlds police like the US. They haven't built 900 bases and stationed aircraft carriers and troops and missile systems and submarines and aircraft all over the entire world like the US because well...they weren't the worlds global super power like the US. China was mostly a backwater shithole until US investment/manufacturing turned it into an economic juggernaut.

China doesn't go invading anywhere not because they don't want to. It's because they simply can't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 12:06:58 PM

A developing country has advantages, often, in manufacturing, just as the US did in the 19th century and part of the 20th.

1.  Few regulations on pollution or mining or worker safety;
2.  Cheap power, in China delivered by the State;
3.  Very cheap labor costs, you don't need HR and Regulatory and legal and whatnot western companies are saddled with.  No unions of course.
4.  Potentially cheap capital.
5.  Workers are fairly happy if their lot improves over time, even slowly, they may get housing and medical for "free".

Production of stuff is going to seek the lowest cost geography, just as the cotton mills moved from the NE US to the South in the 1950s.  I remember when textile mills dotted the southeast, I don't know of any extant today.  If a company does not seek cheaper production, it won't stay in business long.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 09, 2022, 12:10:44 PM

Quote

Yeah, except, it's not wrong. How do you not see this? You can't compete with someone who is a) cheating and b) won't even let you compete in their markets. There is no free trade or competition with China. They don't allow it. They've been ripping the US off for decades. Time to change that. Like now. Right. Now.

This isn't a game of Clue. You can't cheat. You can have policies that work or don't work. If we can't possibly compete with Communist China because their government owns lots of stuff then...we should probably copy what they do well. I don't really believe that, but the reason have wanted free trade with China is because it helps us get low, low prices on lots of things. That makes people buy more crap, which makes everyone money. 

Quote

China doesn't go invading anywhere not because they don't want to. It's because they simply can't.

And also because they don't want to. They don't have an interest in it. They have more than enough money and people to commit to military endeavors if that is something they wanted to do. They don't, because for the most part, invasions of other countries don't accomplish much, especially when you can just buy stuff in the other countries and get what you want anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 09, 2022, 12:13:43 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 09, 2022, 11:55:32 AM

This would be a good opportunity to try and modernize our transportation.

Lol. Yeah, ok. You sound like Mayor Buttplug. Let them Buy $50,000 Teslas! 

It'll takes years if not a decade plus to do what you're talking about. Record gas prices and record inflation are crushing regular working class people right now. We need a solution, right now. Saudis nudged OPEC to ramp up production- that'd help cool things down. They won't. Why? Because: they hate Biden. And he made them hate him. Not President Shits-his-Diapers fault- he is after all just a very hate-able guy. 

Tesla only manufactures about 1 million cars a year. They just hit this milestone after 14 years in business. The nation wide charging infrastructure for people to be able to go electric is also non-existent. There are gas stations on literally every street off every highway in every city in this country. There are not electric charging stations on every street off every highway in every city in this country. And EV prices are still too high. Try getting a Tesla Model 3 for $38k. I don't think you can. The tax credits ran out now I believe bc Tesla has produced so many cars now- and the Model 3 starts at $45k and that's with zero options. Get one with any range or options you're paying $50k minimum. The other manufacturers aren't building very many EVs right now. Tesla still has 80% of the EV market. And at $50k, that's a pretty steep barrier to entrance for EVs. They need to be around $30-35k and you need the charging infrastructure nationwide for them to be massively adopted. This is still many years away.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 09, 2022, 12:16:43 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 09, 2022, 12:13:43 PM

Lol. Yeah, ok. You sound like Mayor Buttplug. Let them Buy $50,000 Teslas!

It'll takes years if not a decade plus to do what you're talking about. Record gas prices and record inflation are crushing regular working class people right now. We need a solution, right now. Saudis nudged OPEC to ramp up production- that'd help cool things down. They won't. Why? Because: they hate Biden. And he made them hate him. Not President Shits-his-Diapers fault- he is after all just a very hate-able guy.

Tesla only manufactures about 1 million cars a year. They just hit this milestone after 14 years in business. The nation wide charging infrastructure for people to be able to go electric is also non-existent. There are gas stations on literally every street off every highway in every city in this country. There are not electric charging stations on every street off every highway in every city in this country. And EV prices are still too high. Try getting a Tesla Model 3 for $38k. I don't think you can. The tax credits ran out now I believe bc Tesla has produced so many cars now- and the Model 3 starts at $45k and that's with zero options. Get one with any range or options you're paying $50k minimum. The other manufacturers aren't building very many EVs right now. Tesla still has 80% of the EV market. And at $50k, that's a pretty steep barrier to entrance for EVs. They need to be around $30-35k and you need the charging infrastructure nationwide for them to be massively adopted. This is still many years away.

Well, this is always the problem. People go on and on about (1) not wanting to be dependent on other countries for our energy needs and (2) always wanting our gas to be really cheap. One way to get less dependent on Saudi Arabia is to stop needing so much gas.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 09, 2022, 12:19:53 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/dlp56zD.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 12:21:32 PM

The rate of penetration of EVs into the US fleet is going to be slow, it's going to pick up of course, but replacing a significant number of ICE cars is not going to happen for years.  Even if every new car and LT sold today were an EV, it would still take years.  It is a longer term solution, assuming we can generate the electricity to charge them all, but we're talking decades.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 09, 2022, 12:22:46 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 12:21:32 PM

The rate of penetration of EVs into the US fleet is going to be slow, it's going to pick up of course, but replacing a significant number of ICE cars is not going to happen for years.  Even if every new car and LT sold today were an EV, it would still take years.  It is a longer term solution, assuming we can generate the electricity to charge them all, but we're talking decades.

Gotta build nuke plants. It's the only true solution.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 12:24:21 PM

Electric vehicles projected to make up 31% of the global fleet by 2050 (electrek.co) (https://electrek.co/2021/10/26/electric-vehicles-projected-to-make-up-31-of-the-global-fleet-by-2050/)

It may be faster than this of course, but it will be a while before significant petroleum reduction for fuel is a thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 12:25:01 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 09, 2022, 12:22:46 PM

Gotta build nuke plants. It's the only true solution.

But we can't, in the US, or in Germany, and in much of the West.  So, it's not a practicable solution.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 09, 2022, 12:25:51 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 12:25:01 PM

But we can't, in the US, or in Germany, and in much of the West.  So, it's not a practicable solution.

Policy change needed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 09, 2022, 12:26:52 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 12:25:01 PM

But we can't, in the US, or in Germany, and in much of the West.  So, it's not a practicable solution.

Why can't we?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 09, 2022, 12:27:57 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 09, 2022, 12:26:52 PM

Why can't we?

Bad policy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 09, 2022, 12:29:10 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 09, 2022, 12:16:43 PM

Well, this is always the problem. People go on and on about (1) not wanting to be dependent on other countries for our energy needs and (2) always wanting our gas to be really cheap. One way to get less dependent on Saudi Arabia is to stop needing so much gas.

we don't really buy that much oil from Saudi Arabia. It's not that we need their gas. 

they just happen to have the 2nd most provable oil reserves in the entire world and also happen to be the worlds low cost high volume producer of oil. they also happen to largely control the OPEC cartel, of which they are the highest producing member and wield most influence, and OPEC produces 40% of worlds entire oil supply and 60% of worlds oil exports. Saudis also helped US retain dominance as worlds reserve currency after the Nixon shock by striking a deal with US to standardize the sale of their oil based in US dollars. Saudis are most definitely complete assholes but they are a vital strategic partner of the US and have been for 70+ years. 

And it's just simple supply and demand. Saudis as largest producer in OPEC and most influential member of OPEC can wield massive power in increasing or decreasing the supply of oil. flood market with supply, they can cool prices. restrict supply, they can raise them. OPEC=40% of worlds entire oil and 60% of worlds oil exports. those are huge numbers. they can wield massive power over the price of oil. having them on your side when you need them- like the previous guy- is a necessity.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 09, 2022, 12:29:12 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 09, 2022, 12:27:57 PM

Bad policy.

Well, sure. But policies change if anyone takes the time to make the case to change them. That no one does is not the same as no one can.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 12:29:46 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 09, 2022, 12:26:52 PM

Why can't we?

Do you seriously not know why the US and much of the west is not going nuclear?  Really?

Or why Germany is shutting theirs down?  

It's nice to think "Well, we could build nukes", but reality, that word again, is that is isn't happening.  It's pretty obvious why it isn't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 09, 2022, 12:32:01 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 12:29:46 PM

Do you seriously not know why the US and much of the west is not going nuclear?  Really?

Or why Germany is shutting theirs down? 

It's nice to think "Well, we could build nukes", but reality, that word again, is that is isn't happening.  It's pretty obvious why it isn't.

This isn't an answer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 09, 2022, 12:36:26 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 09, 2022, 12:22:46 PM

Gotta build nuke plants. It's the only true solution.

absolutely. 

federal gov't needs to remove environmental barriers and dump endless amounts of money to subsidize R&D and construction costs of building them. just pour an endless amount of money into it. you know, like they do the military. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 12:38:52 PM

Nuclear Energy Among the Least Popular Sources of Power in the U.S., Polling Shows (morningconsult.com) (https://morningconsult.com/2020/09/09/nuclear-energy-polling/)

The folks most incensed about climate change tend to be the folks most against nuclear power.

https://www.oecd-nea.org/upload/docs/application/pdf/2019-12/6859-public-attitudes.pdf

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 09, 2022, 12:54:21 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 12:38:52 PM

Nuclear Energy Among the Least Popular Sources of Power in the U.S., Polling Shows (morningconsult.com) (https://morningconsult.com/2020/09/09/nuclear-energy-polling/)

The folks most incensed about climate change tend to be the folks most against nuclear power.

https://www.oecd-nea.org/upload/docs/application/pdf/2019-12/6859-public-attitudes.pdf

Seems like a pretty easy problem to solve. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 09, 2022, 12:58:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 10:21:33 AM

Imagine the US work force was paid what the Chinese work force is paid and companies could operate with almost not regulations on emissions, worker safety, HR, unions, etc.  Race to the bottom, it's called.

Race to the bottom overseen by an oppressive oligarchy. Quite a feat. 

And if we were to try choking it off, we’d be having the talk we’re having about gas, but about all sorts of goods. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 09, 2022, 01:06:09 PM

Wow, y'all are effing tiring. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 09, 2022, 01:21:28 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 09, 2022, 01:06:09 PM

Wow, y'all are effing tiring.

word

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 09, 2022, 01:27:54 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 09, 2022, 01:06:09 PM

Wow, y'all are effing tiring.

Buddy if I have to read about Jeeps you have to read about China

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 09, 2022, 02:40:39 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 09, 2022, 01:27:54 PM

Buddy if I have to read about Jeeps you have to read about China

:043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 09, 2022, 02:47:25 PM

sanctions induced global recession here we come baby! 

https://twitter.com/njtmulder/status/1501552910722813961?s=20&t=5DaE2vYu9pM9QEB3JQ7c6w

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 09, 2022, 03:03:53 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 09, 2022, 02:47:25 PM

sanctions induced global recession here we come baby!

https://twitter.com/njtmulder/status/1501552910722813961?s=20&t=5DaE2vYu9pM9QEB3JQ7c6w

Well at least it felt good on Twitter

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 09, 2022, 03:10:01 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 09, 2022, 03:03:53 PM

Well at least it felt good on Twitter

Nothing on twitter "feels good" right now.


https://twitter.com/Newsweek/status/1501613005049577473?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1501613005049577473%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2Ftwitter.min.html1501613005049577473

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 03:15:04 PM

The phrase "It SEEMS very POSSIBLE that ...."  whatever follows is hedged to the nth.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 04:47:46 PM

At $1.4M, ‘unique and fantastic’ Midtown penthouse lists for 2nd time ever | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/midtown-penthouse-for-sale-peachtree-building-two-stories)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 09, 2022, 06:53:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 12:38:52 PM

Nuclear Energy Among the Least Popular Sources of Power in the U.S., Polling Shows (morningconsult.com) (https://morningconsult.com/2020/09/09/nuclear-energy-polling/)

The folks most incensed about climate change tend to be the folks most against nuclear power.

https://www.oecd-nea.org/upload/docs/application/pdf/2019-12/6859-public-attitudes.pdf

Yeah, even though it's easily the most feasible power source that SHOULDN'T adversely affect the environment.

Nuclear incidents can only happen when like 8 major things go wrong.
But people watched the HBO series Chernobyl, so they're all experts now.  That showed how a bunch of things had to go wrong for that to happen.
Fukushima had a bunch of things go wrong, of which some were easily avoidable, if not for human error.

Great news for pro-nuclear people - now Russia's turned off the power to a plant in Ukraine.....great.  I'm sure that'll help things along.  FFS

Anywho.  
There are 440 nuclear plants currently running around the world, supplying 10% of the earth's power needs.  All humming along, no problems.  Just churning out power forever.  No big deal.

But we have 2 incidents 45 years apart, full of human error and 1 involving an earthquake/tsunami and BOOO nuclear power!  It's terrible!!!!


People are dumb.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 07:21:16 PM

The "will of the people", even if dumb, is a major factor in practicability of a thing.

We're still turning corn into bioethanol to add to gasoline.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 09, 2022, 07:55:41 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 09, 2022, 06:53:35 PM

Yeah, even though it's easily the most feasible power source that SHOULDN'T adversely affect the environment.

Nuclear incidents can only happen when like 8 major things go wrong.
But people watched the HBO series Chernobyl, so they're all experts now.  That showed how a bunch of things had to go wrong for that to happen.
Fukushima had a bunch of things go wrong, of which some were easily avoidable, if not for human error.

Great news for pro-nuclear people - now Russia's turned off the power to a plant in Ukraine.....great.  I'm sure that'll help things along.  FFS

Anywho. 
There are 440 nuclear plants currently running around the world, supplying 10% of the earth's power needs.  All humming along, no problems.  Just churning out power forever.  No big deal.

But we have 2 incidents 45 years apart, full of human error and 1 involving an earthquake/tsunami and BOOO nuclear power!  It's terrible!!!!

People are dumb.

this. not to mention the accidents were outdated designs/tech. from what I understand the brand new reactors are much safer with more fail safes designed in. just like pretty much everything, the new ones they build today in 2022 are a lot better than the ones they built back in the day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 09, 2022, 07:57:44 PM

I used to live in a state that had a massive nuclear project in a small town. 

Turned out they were doing a big old fraud and left the tax payers with the bill. Good times. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 08:00:46 PM

There are only two new power reactors being built in the US right now, two, and no more planned with any seriousness.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 09, 2022, 08:07:30 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 08:00:46 PM

There are only two new power reactors being built in the US right now, two, and no more planned with any seriousness.

but I think that is largely due to cost ineffectiveness. we haven't built them in a long awhile.

South Korea made nuclear power a key part of their energy policy, a lot of them, in pairs, and over a 30 year period that country was able to get construction costs to build their reactors to decrease by 50%. They get about a third of their energy needs from nuclear plants. We're at 19% France is at an astonishing world leading 70%. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 09, 2022, 08:24:44 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 09, 2022, 06:53:35 PM

But we have 2 incidents 45 years apart, full of human error and 1 involving an earthquake/tsunami and BOOO nuclear power!  It's terrible!!!!


People are dumb.

well, natural disasters happen. You can't just build them all over the place and hope that there aren't any earthquakes or tsunamis. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 09, 2022, 09:41:18 PM

This is just such an incredibly bad time for America

I just wish we had better leadership

sorry if that bothers some folks out there 

Im just saying what I feel

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 09, 2022, 09:58:33 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 09, 2022, 09:41:18 PM

This is just such an incredibly bad time for America

I just wish we had better leadership

sorry if that bothers some folks out there

Im just saying what I feel

Don’t have to apologize brother and I’m sure most of the country feels the same way. 

Really uneasy times right now. This war ending asap would be great.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2022, 12:59:42 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 09, 2022, 09:41:18 PM

This is just such an incredibly bad time for America

I just wish we had better leadership

sorry if that bothers some folks out there

Im just saying what I feel

There's about 250 other places it's worse for....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2022, 07:28:35 AM

I think broadly speaking, "we" fault whoever is President for too much, and credit them for the same reason.  A lot of stuff just happens, when some President is in office, good or bad, that he or she may have had little to nothing to do with, no control.  It would have happened no matter who was in office.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 10, 2022, 07:41:52 AM

https://twitter.com/DrewHolden360/status/1501716518761119745?s=20&t=T0TL5ylfM6ve7CTbZMJKdQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 10, 2022, 08:12:47 AM

Car and gas prices going way up. I guess it's good we killed all those public transit options.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2022, 08:39:58 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 10, 2022, 08:12:47 AM

Car and gas prices going way up. I guess it's good we killed all those public transit options.

Public corruption options.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 10, 2022, 08:40:12 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 10, 2022, 08:12:47 AM

Car and gas prices going way up. I guess it's good we killed all those public transit options.

Who is "we" and what public transit options are you talking about, in what locations?

In Austin the very left-leaning City Council continues to add public transit options without public referendum.  New light rail service and increased bus service annually.

Nobody's riding them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 10, 2022, 08:41:30 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2022, 08:39:58 AM

Public corruption options.

Exactly. City Council bypasses the public, hands contracts to cronies, and still nobody rides.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2022, 08:41:38 AM

Don't move to Austin.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 10, 2022, 08:44:01 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2022, 08:41:38 AM

Don't move to Austin.

Thank You For Your Support

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2022, 08:45:26 AM

Yeah, I'm not sure what public transit options were killed, I'm sure some were.  We have a special added tax here for more public transit which I haven't seen yet beyond "plans".  But I'm paying an 8.9% sales tax on everything, some of which is for transit.  Gwinnett county voted MARTA down, again.  It really didn't help them much.

The are changing the name of MARTA though, maybe that will help.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 10, 2022, 08:59:40 AM

I think you can look to every single state in the union and find public transit options that were killed for a variety of reasons. Fairly easy to find. So we become extremely dependent on cars, then complain that no one rides the public transit we do have (which usually sucks)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2022, 09:07:40 AM

Maybe those options were not cost effective and not sensible, at least in some cases.  Maybe the people didn't want them.  Every bus I see around town is empty, or has 2-3 riders on it, seems inefficient to me.

I've mentioned before that at some point autonomous EVs may completely eliminate the real need for mass transit, that is speculative, in many areas, including HSR, which is a boondoogle in my view.

Cost:Benefit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2022, 09:09:19 AM

Public transit in Chicago is really good - we used it all the time.

It's also one of the biggest sources of corruption in that chity.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 10, 2022, 09:19:38 AM

As a bright eyed and bushy tailed teenager on my first trip to Chicago, I was wowed by the L.  We didn't have subways or elevated railways down here.  At that time we didn't even have light passenger rail or commuter rail.  Just boring old buses.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2022, 09:24:58 AM

Shy of a drive to the train stations in the suburbs, you can get anywhere in the Chicago area without a car.

The El is expanding currently.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 10, 2022, 09:37:49 AM

It's not hard. Transit is good where population density supports it. 

That's NY, Boston, SF, Chicago, Philly, Miami, and to an extent Los Angeles (although the sprawl here makes living w/o car very difficult). 

Most cities who want fancy light rail services don't have enough population density to need it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 10, 2022, 09:38:55 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 10, 2022, 09:37:49 AM

It's not hard. Transit is good where population density supports it.

That's NY, Boston, SF, Chicago, Philly, Miami, and to an extent Los Angeles (although the sprawl here makes living w/o car very difficult).

Most cities who want fancy light rail services don't have enough population density to need it.

But there's always somebody willing to sell it to them, anyway.  And some local politicians looking to get in on the grift.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 10, 2022, 09:50:19 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 10, 2022, 09:38:55 AM

But there's always somebody willing to sell it to them, anyway.  And some local politicians looking to get in on the grift.

Seems like more of a Shelbyville idea, anyway...

And then when they've spent all their money and ridership is in the toilet, they cut bus service for the people who absolutely NEED transit because they can't afford to maintain fancy light rail and non-fancy buses...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 10, 2022, 09:51:05 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 10, 2022, 09:07:40 AM

Maybe those options were not cost effective and not sensible, at least in some cases.  Maybe the people didn't want them.  Every bus I see around town is empty, or has 2-3 riders on it, seems inefficient to me.

I've mentioned before that at some point autonomous EVs may completely eliminate the real need for mass transit, that is speculative, in many areas, including HSR, which is a boondoogle in my view.

Cost:Benefit.

Maybe, maybe. What is undeniable is we constantly chose more cars and more roads over public transit wherever that was an option in a bet on cheap gas and cheap cars. When those prices rise, we are stuck with very limited options and thus are stuck with paying the higher prices. Certainly, looking at options to decrease fuel prices is important. Not sure why making the need for less gas is somehow not on the same playing field. Well, I do know why, people don't understand economics.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2022, 09:53:13 AM

Yes, we CHOOSE, as individuals, it's part of a free market, or semi-free, choice.

Building a lot of transit no one wants to use is a waste.  Products need to appeal to the consumer to be successful unless you go for central planning, which has a rather lackluster history.

At times, I use the TGV, but I understand it is heavily subsidized by the French government, otherwise it would not be cost effective in a free market.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 10, 2022, 09:55:59 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 10, 2022, 09:37:49 AM

It's not hard. Transit is good where population density supports it.

That's NY, Boston, SF, Chicago, Philly, Miami, and to an extent Los Angeles (although the sprawl here makes living w/o car very difficult).

Most cities who want fancy light rail services don't have enough population density to need it.

Well, it is hard. Population density is a direct result of the transit options. So to say, hey, our city is too spread out to need or use public transit is more of a just so story than a policy. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 10, 2022, 09:57:56 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 10, 2022, 09:53:13 AM

Yes, we CHOOSE, as individuals, it's part of a free market, or semi-free, choice.

Building a lot of transit no one wants to use is a waste.  Products need to appeal to the consumer to be successful unless you go for central planning, which has a rather lackluster history.

At times, I use the TGV, but I understand it is heavily subsidized by the French government, otherwise it would not be cost effective in a free market.

Well, that's the problem. We don't have a choice. You can go on and on about the free market, but the free market didn't build the interstates. The free market doesn't put bike lanes on busy streets. Sometimes "free market" is just a ghost we use to make us feel better that we made the correct decision. Free market as as the hand of Jesus.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 10, 2022, 09:59:31 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 10, 2022, 09:51:05 AM

Maybe, maybe. What is undeniable is we constantly chose more cars and more roads over public transit wherever that was an option in a bet on cheap gas and cheap cars. When those prices rise, we are stuck with very limited options and thus are stuck with paying the higher prices. Certainly, looking at options to decrease fuel prices is important. Not sure why making the need for less gas is somehow not on the same playing field. Well, I do know why, people don't understand economics.

Yeah, and a lot of those transit systems that DO get built have poor ridership numbers and are not self-sustaining. Yet the answer is "build more transit!" even though you can look at past history in cities with low-mid population density and realize it's likely to be a failure...

The best transit to expand would be bus services. It's cheap [relatively], modular, and can adjust routes/timing to match changing population needs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 10, 2022, 10:05:47 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 10, 2022, 08:12:47 AM

Car and gas prices going way up. I guess it's good we killed all those public transit options spent the last 75 years pushing car-centric low-to-no density housing policy that left most of America unable to use public transit even if they so chose.

FIFY

It's very much a chicken-and-egg problem. The density to support transit doesn't exist in most places in suburbia, but that lack of density is a direct result of governments allowing for low-to-no density housing to take over suburbia.

A civil engineer with knowledge of the history of land use and transportation policy is a dangerous combo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2022, 10:07:23 AM

That's my point, you can build it, and they won't come, it's a waste, like the CA HSR nonsense that was obvious nonsense from its start.  These things often are masquerading as social justice, feel good wannabes that make zero sense.

Atlanta has a streecar no one rides, so does Cincy (who I think just made it free).  This was to try and develop a black area of town, it didn't work.  The subway here is "OK", we use it at times, and I'd hate to think what the city would be like without it, but it's way underutilized, and very costly.

All the plans here for bus rapid transit and light rail cost a lot of money and seems to me doomed to failure as well.  If people largely don't like the product, it's going to fail.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 10, 2022, 10:09:11 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 10, 2022, 09:59:31 AM

Yeah, and a lot of those transit systems that DO get built have poor ridership numbers and are not self-sustaining. Yet the answer is "build more transit!" even though you can look at past history in cities with low-mid population density and realize it's likely to be a failure...

The best transit to expand would be bus services. It's cheap [relatively], modular, and can adjust routes/timing to match changing population needs.

Yes! Because of what you just mentioned. Putting a value on something being "self-sustaining" is, on its face, stupid. Because you aren't trying to build a business, you are trying to make other options for transit that alleviates the need for a car. However, because we don't understand how economics work, we try to make a public transit system its own business, which leads to crappy products that no one wants.

We don't use this for other options. Sidewalks are a form of transit, but no one goes on about the need for sidewalks to be "self-sustaining." That would be absurd. But here we are.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 10, 2022, 10:09:30 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 07:21:16 PM

The "will of the people", even if dumb, is a major factor in practicability of a thing.

We're still turning corn into bioethanol to add to gasoline.

and with the price of oil going up..... good for the american corn farmer!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 10, 2022, 10:13:50 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 10, 2022, 09:55:59 AM

Well, it is hard. Population density is a direct result of the transit options. So to say, hey, our city is too spread out to need or use public transit is more of a just so story than a policy.

Or some would say they go hand in hand... You need a minimum level of density to support transit, and then the addition of transit will create economic pressure to increase density. But it's not exactly an Iowa farmland "build it and they will come" sort of situation...

https://kinder.rice.edu/2018/11/13/excerpt-many-cities-have-transit-how-many-have-good-transit

Quote

Density
Nothing matters as much to making transit useful and successful as population density. Every mile of transit costs money to build and operate. Fundamentally, the usefulness of that mile is a based on simple math: how many people will that mile of transit reach? A mile of route puts roughly a square mile of area within reach of transit. If 100 people live in that square mile, there are 100 potential transit riders; if 10,000 people live in that square, there are 10,000 potential transit riders.
Multiple research studies have attempted to quantify density thresholds for transit. At somewhere around 3,000 people per square mile, it makes sense to operate some level of infrequent local bus service. This level of density is common in US cities, both in prewar neighborhoods and postwar car-oriented suburbia. Here, while an hourly bus will get ridership, transit will never be the most convenient mode, and most people will choose to drive. Somewhere around 10,000 people per square mile, though, transit reaches a tipping point. Here, the sheer number of people are enough to justify frequent service. Moreover, walking and biking become useful for short trips, which makes it easier for people to live without cars and makes transit more desirable. As densities further increase, more and more transit is justified. The transit- oriented neighborhoods of older cities have over 15,000 people per square mile, and even newer car-oriented cities like Los Angeles and Houston have some neighborhoods at these densities.
The performance of a rail or BRT line is directly related to the surrounding densities. For example, the most successful light-rail systems in the United States—San Francisco, Boston, Philadelphia, Seattle, Newark, Jersey City, Buffalo, and Houston—serve large areas of over 10,000 people per square mile.

It will take decades to jump from, say, 5,000/sq mi to 10,000/sq mi. 

And it also doesn't help much when zoning boards are pro-light rail while also driving anti-density policies...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2022, 10:15:05 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/dSIw9Qy.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 10, 2022, 10:18:25 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2022, 10:15:05 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/dSIw9Qy.png)

By 4-lane, they mean 2 lanes per direction, right? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2022, 10:20:12 AM

Yes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 10, 2022, 10:20:35 AM

Quote

And it also doesn't help much when zoning boards are pro-light rail while also driving anti-density policies...

Definitely

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2022, 10:22:13 AM

A thing happening here, finally, is that area near a MARTA station are burgeoning, it's viewed as a big plus, at least in promo materials.  So, to an extent, that is a build it and they will come, decades later, but I have a suspicion most buying condos and renting near stations still mostly drive anyway.  We're just under a mile from two stations, which works to get to the airport, weather permitting.  The real development is closer to those two stations, and it's extreme.  The same is happening on other lines that cut through what were sketchy neighborhoods back in the day.

I'm not totally against such things obviously, but we need to be realistic about proposals and examine the cost:benefit carefully, or we end up with things like we see in CA with HSR, a predictable major disaster.  And technology may supplant the need for some of this in time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 10, 2022, 10:52:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 10, 2022, 10:22:13 AM

A thing happening here, finally, is that area near a MARTA station are burgeoning, it's viewed as a big plus, at least in promo materials.  So, to an extent, that is a build it and they will come, decades later, but I have a suspicion most buying condos and renting near stations still mostly drive anyway.  We're just under a mile from two stations, which works to get to the airport, weather permitting.  The real development is closer to those two stations, and it's extreme.  The same is happening on other lines that cut through what were sketchy neighborhoods back in the day.

I'm not totally against such things obviously, but we need to be realistic about proposals and examine the cost:benefit carefully, or we end up with things like we see in CA with HSR, a predictable major disaster.  And technology may supplant the need for some of this in time.

Apparently even Atlanta's population wouldn't be considered particularly dense...


https://www.threadatl.org/2018/05/16/atlantas-population-density-are-we-full/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2022, 10:58:27 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 10, 2022, 10:52:14 AM

Apparently even Atlanta's population wouldn't be considered particularly dense...

The metro area is not at all.  Even west of us inside the city has an amazing amount of empty space.  But inside the city is changing fast, especially near us.  The metro area has no geographic limits, like Lake Michigan or an ocean, so it sprawls, akin to Dallas.  The metro area is the size of Massachusetts with about the same population.

The hard rail system only includes 3 counties, one of them is tiny, so it can only serve a small portion of the metro area.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2022, 11:10:36 AM

Lawmakers feast on pork in omnibus | TheHill (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/597625-lawmakers-feast-on-pork-in-omnibus)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 10, 2022, 11:47:00 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 10, 2022, 09:51:05 AM

Maybe, maybe. What is undeniable is we constantly chose more cars and more roads over public transit wherever that was an option in a bet on cheap gas and cheap cars. 

You realize in the 40's/50s Big Auto bought out most of the street cars companies in the cities and vehicles/Gas were relatively cheap after the war.Many things weren't decided by the masses.And if you had to ride a train thru the inner cities Not sure you would choose to take that route down to the office.Given all the stops and some less than cordial customers along the way

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 10, 2022, 11:52:36 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 10, 2022, 10:09:11 AM

We don't use this for other options. Sidewalks are a form of transit, but no one goes on about the need for sidewalks to be "self-sustaining." That would be absurd. But here we are.

Sidewalks aren't absurd they keep pedestrians from becoming speed bumps

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 10, 2022, 12:13:04 PM

High speed rail is really happening in Florida but it’s a private company doing it, not the state or fed govt.

Miami to Ft Lauderdale to West Palm route and vice versa has been open for about 3-4 years. Trains only go about 80mph on this route bc of the population density. All the stations are brand new and nice and the trains are as well. West Palm to Miami takes about an hr. Which shoot, takes double or triple that most of the time now during the peak traffic hours. 

Stations for the Aventura Mall in Aventura and near Mizner Park in Boca Raton are approved by those cities and being built. Aventura is a rich area just north of Miami and 

And the extension from West Palm Beach to Orlando is currently under construction and will be done end of this year and open in 2023. There’s a lot of empty space and not a ton of population density from WPB to Orlando - so that route will average speeds of 125mph. Next logical conclusion would be Orlando extends to Tampa and then I’d guess that’d be about it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2022, 12:32:33 PM

That isn’t high speed 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 10, 2022, 12:36:54 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 10, 2022, 12:32:33 PM

That isn’t high speed

125 mph isnt high speed?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 10, 2022, 12:45:07 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 10, 2022, 12:36:54 PM

125 mph isnt high speed?

Hell, the tram from the Stockholm airport to the city center tops out at that speed (200+ kmh). 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 10, 2022, 12:46:02 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 10, 2022, 11:52:36 AM

Sidewalks aren't absurd they keep pedestrians from becoming speed bumps

Yes, sidewalks provide value that doesn't include generating revenue.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 10, 2022, 12:46:32 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 10, 2022, 12:13:04 PM

High speed rail is really happening in Florida but it’s a private company doing it, not the state or fed govt.

If the bureaucracy leaves them alone they have a punchers chance

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 10, 2022, 12:51:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 10, 2022, 12:32:33 PM

That isn’t high speed

Yeah, it is. Anything in excess of 200km/h is considered to be high speed rail. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2022, 01:17:52 PM

79 mph (130 km/h) Miami–West Palm Beach 
110 mph (180 km/h) West Palm Beach–Cocoa (planned) 
125 mph (200 km/h) Cocoa–Orlando (planned)

You have to have grade separation to go over 79 mph.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2022, 01:26:32 PM

The European Union Directive (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directive_(European_Union)) 96/48/EC, Annex 1 (see also Trans-European high-speed rail network (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-European_high-speed_rail_network)) defines high-speed rail in terms of:

Infrastructuretrack built specially for high-speed travel or specially upgraded for high-speed travel.Minimum speed limitMinimum speed of 250 km/h (155 mph) on lines specially built for high speed and of about 200 km/h (124 mph) on existing lines which have been specially upgraded. This must apply to at least one section of the line. Rolling stock must be able to reach a speed of at least 200 km/h to be considered high speed.

If Brightline actually reaches 200 kph on some segments, that part would be HSR.  The key word here is planned.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 10, 2022, 01:59:15 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 10, 2022, 01:26:32 PM

The European Union Directive (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directive_(European_Union)) 96/48/EC, Annex 1 (see also Trans-European high-speed rail network (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-European_high-speed_rail_network)) defines high-speed rail in terms of:

Infrastructuretrack built specially for high-speed travel or specially upgraded for high-speed travel.Minimum speed limitMinimum speed of 250 km/h (155 mph) on lines specially built for high speed and of about 200 km/h (124 mph) on existing lines which have been specially upgraded. This must apply to at least one section of the line. Rolling stock must be able to reach a speed of at least 200 km/h to be considered high speed.

If Brightline actually reaches 200 kph on some segments, that part would be HSR.  The key word here is planned.

so why is the European Union the royal definer

if the USA says 125 mph is high speed then guess what it is

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on March 10, 2022, 02:02:33 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 10, 2022, 10:20:35 AM

Definitely

This is one of the reason's light rail does not work well in Phoenix.  While the populaton is growing, it is not very dense compared to other metropolitan areas. 

Then there is the fact that the run the routes the same as the bus lines with just as many stops.

And the fact they didn't consider it a priority to make a route the the Glendale Sports and entertainment area.  Personally I won't drive out there for a sporting event (well I will if Ohio State is playing) but I would consider it if there was light rail going out to the venue.  It would have helped the coyotes maintain their location out there if there had been light rail. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2022, 02:11:10 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 10, 2022, 01:59:15 PM

so why is the European Union the royal definer

if the USA says 125 mph is high speed then guess what it is

200 kph is 125 mph, so if they reach that speed on one segment, that segment, in the future, is planned as HSR.  That's a big if in my book.

Normal rail in the US has a 79 mph speed limit everwhere, ACELA runs at 125 in portions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2022, 02:35:47 PM

California bullet train's latest woe: Will it be high speed? | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/business-gavin-newsom-san-francisco-california-high-speed-rail-authority-state-budgets-d6667f05a1ae22989bb63ceb8aaf4f7c)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 10, 2022, 03:35:04 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 10, 2022, 02:35:47 PM

California bullet train's latest woe: Will it be high speed? | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/business-gavin-newsom-san-francisco-california-high-speed-rail-authority-state-budgets-d6667f05a1ae22989bb63ceb8aaf4f7c)

Slower than driving; more expensive than flying. Serving a market that nobody wants except 3-year-old boys who think trains are the coolest things in the world. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 10, 2022, 03:43:34 PM

so why does this train have to go over 70 mph has anyone done a cost study of the extra cost involved to go faster

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2022, 04:24:39 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 10, 2022, 12:13:04 PM

High speed rail is really happening in Florida but it’s a private company doing it, not the state or fed govt.

Miami to Ft Lauderdale to West Palm route and vice versa has been open for about 3-4 years. Trains only go about 80mph on this route bc of the population density. All the stations are brand new and nice and the trains are as well. West Palm to Miami takes about an hr. Which shoot, takes double or triple that most of the time now during the peak traffic hours.

Stations for the Aventura Mall in Aventura and near Mizner Park in Boca Raton are approved by those cities and being built. Aventura is a rich area just north of Miami and

And the extension from West Palm Beach to Orlando is currently under construction and will be done end of this year and open in 2023. There’s a lot of empty space and not a ton of population density from WPB to Orlando - so that route will average speeds of 125mph. Next logical conclusion would be Orlando extends to Tampa and then I’d guess that’d be about it.

I think a loop would be good. And also take it up to Jacksonville.

The loop would go from Miami to Naples to Tampa and to Orlando, with stops along the way, of course.

I used that line from the Miami airport to Palm Beach and it was fantastic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2022, 04:24:56 PM

Going over 79 raises costs by a lot.  One key feature is if the lines are electrified or not, that is an advantage of course, but also costly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2022, 04:26:32 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 10, 2022, 03:35:04 PM

Slower than driving; more expensive than flying. Serving a market that nobody wants except 3-year-old boys who think trains are the coolest things in the world.

They also want to be engineers. Train drivers, I mean.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2022, 04:27:52 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 10, 2022, 04:24:56 PM

Going over 79 raises costs by a lot.  One key feature is if the lines are electrified or not, that is an advantage of course, but also costly.

Regardless, going 79 from Miami is FAR better than what you can by car from Miami, unless you're driving at 2AM. Took me 2.5 hours to get from Miami to Palm Beach, the one time I did it. The train took an hour.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2022, 04:41:36 PM

No doubt traffic is really bad down that way.  The train option might actually make a profit, some day.  

Our drive to North Port is not terrible, just long, but that is the other side.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2022, 04:42:03 PM

Baseball, reportedly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2022, 04:44:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 10, 2022, 04:41:36 PM

No doubt traffic is really bad down that way.  The train option might actually make a profit, some day. 

Our drive to North Port is not terrible, just long, but that is the other side.

75 is not nearly as busy as 95, that's for sure, but that is changing quickly. This area is growing like crazy now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 10, 2022, 04:51:29 PM

as great a people mover as Disney is Im a little surprised they arent involved

they have the money and the advertising would be great

not only logos on the side of the train but captive audience watching TV screens showing only Disney stuff

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2022, 05:04:40 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 10, 2022, 04:51:29 PM

not only logos on the side of the train but captive audience watching TV screens showing only Disney stuff

We don't need a bunch of suicides on the train.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2022, 05:05:28 PM

Good luck creating a loop, going across the Everglades. 

If it ventures 1 inch outside of the existing "Alligator Alley" footprint, you'll never get through the environmental red tape.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 10, 2022, 05:19:14 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2022, 05:04:40 PM

We don't need a bunch of suicides on the train.

it would be free and not cost the taxpayers anything

so instead of trying to be cute just try thinking outside the box if you can

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2022, 09:29:36 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 10, 2022, 05:19:14 PM

it would be free and not cost the taxpayers anything

so instead of trying to be cute just try thinking outside the box if you can

I'd honestly think they'd rather pay than expose themselves to an hour-long infomercial for Disney.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 10, 2022, 09:33:30 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2022, 09:29:36 PM

I'd honestly think they'd rather pay than expose themselves to an hour-long infomercial for Disney. 

oh come on man

who wouldnt like Micky and Minnie serving them snacks

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2022, 10:40:31 PM

5 year olds...and you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 10, 2022, 11:08:28 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2022, 10:40:31 PM

5 year olds...and you

I sure would and Id ask for their autographs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 11, 2022, 12:24:52 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 10, 2022, 03:35:04 PM

Slower than driving; more expensive than flying. Serving a market that nobody wants except 3-year-old boys who think trains are the coolest things in the world.

We already have those trains! 

(that marker includes my dad, who also felt trains were highly cool. Though even then, we did a few train trips and then decided time was more valuable)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 11, 2022, 07:03:27 AM

I started my job in 1980, and recall a little no name gas station near work had low lead for $1.17 per, and inflation adjusted that comes to $4.03 in today's dollars.  I was making a lot less money then obviously.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2022, 08:11:18 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2022, 05:05:28 PM

Good luck creating a loop, going across the Everglades. 

If it ventures 1 inch outside of the existing "Alligator Alley" footprint, you'll never get through the environmental red tape.

It's a good thing that the engineers who designed I-75 planned for it, and also a third lane in each direction.


(https://i.imgur.com/Z0Fi0Xs.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2022, 08:12:28 AM

It's a small world for three hours?


I'd need a lot of Scotch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2022, 08:14:42 AM

Speaking on mini mouse... Actors gonna act. What a twat.



Smollett learned his fate Thursday after a judge delivered the terms of his sentence following a contentious four hours in a Chicago courtroom.

Mere minutes after being ordered into custody to begin serving 150 days in jail, the actor addressed the court one last time – despite the fact he said prior to having his sentence read that he had nothing to say.


The former "Empire" star, 39, stood up and affirmed his innocence in a passionate declaration to Cook County Judge James Linn, saying, "I'm not suicidal."


"I respect you, your honor," Smollett said as he placed his hands together in a gesture toward the bench.

"I respect your decision. Jail time? I am not suicidal. ... If anything happens to me in there I did not do it to myself!"


(https://i.imgur.com/UHnbECO.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 11, 2022, 08:17:44 AM

I would consider trains if they were nicer inside and ran predictably and were as cheap as a bus (buses are quite cheap these days, I have not riden one in many decades).  Let's say we wanted to go to Nashville, and took a train versus plane, what are the relative costs and time issues?

I don't think there is a train, so make it DC.

Bus from Atlanta, GA to Washington, D.C. | FlixBus (https://www.flixbus.com/bus-routes/bus-atlanta-ga-washington-dc?departureCity=37261&arrivalCity=27841&wt_mc=acq.us-com.FlixBus.sea-nonbrand.google.5665789731.9249284573_90735930861.ad&wt_cc1=non-branded&wt_cc5=train atlanta to washington)

$40 by bus 13 hours or so.

Atlanta to Washington DC Train - Amtrak Tickets $106 | Wanderu (https://www.wanderu.com/en-us/train/us-ga/atlanta/us-dc/washington/)

$132 by train, 14 hours.  I think we can spot the problem here pretty quickly ....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2022, 08:21:12 AM

Average CTA Bus Driver yearly pay in the United States is approximately $56,039, which is 60% above the national average. Salary information comes from 5 data points collected directly from employees, users, and past and present job advertisements on Indeed in the past 36 months. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 11, 2022, 09:13:40 AM

Today is official "Infantryman Day".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2022, 09:27:07 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 11, 2022, 09:13:40 AM

Today is official "Infantryman Day".

I will call my son later.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 11, 2022, 09:29:41 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 10, 2022, 02:11:10 PM

200 kph is 125 mph, so if they reach that speed on one segment, that segment, in the future, is planned as HSR.  That's a big if in my book.

Normal rail in the US has a 79 mph speed limit everwhere, ACELA runs at 125 in portions.

so apparently the reason they couldn't hit 125 mph is because they were operating on all existing rail track. the rail from coca to orlando is brand new- built and owned by brightline and specifically designed to hit that speed. reason they won't be going higher is because it would cost a lot more money to hit speeds of 160mph and it would only save around 4 mins picking up that extra 35 mph in speed. cocoa to orlando is too short of a distance. but the cocoa to orlando part of the train will hit 125mph. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 11, 2022, 09:38:48 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2022, 04:24:39 PM

I think a loop would be good. And also take it up to Jacksonville.

The loop would go from Miami to Naples to Tampa and to Orlando, with stops along the way, of course.

I used that line from the Miami airport to Palm Beach and it was fantastic.

it is awesome, and pretty cheap too. especially now with gas costing a fortune down here. just filled up my car today for the time in 5 days, and it was $90. and brightline is always sending free rides and giving away free shit and promo codes to try to entice riders. trains are f**king mint, brand new and beautiful and the main station in Miami is something you'd expect to see in Europe or Asia. Brand spanking new and beautiful. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 11, 2022, 09:40:26 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2022, 04:27:52 PM

Regardless, going 79 from Miami is FAR better than what you can by car from Miami, unless you're driving at 2AM. Took me 2.5 hours to get from Miami to Palm Beach, the one time I did it. The train took an hour.

yeah the traffic is brutal right now and not only that- but they are doing major work on 95 from Boca to Miami. that makes traffic worse- and not only is it season, but there are more people living down here permanently now than ever before. lot more New Yorkers and Canadians than even before, and unfortunately noticing a lot of f**king Californians.

rush hour from palm beach to miami - at least an hour and a forty five right now- realistically more like 2 plus. and it's not that far. no traffic you can make that drive in about an hr.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2022, 10:23:23 AM

I'm astonished at the number of Californians moving to our side too. NY, NJ, PA, IL, Ontario.

Don't F this state up, is all I can say.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 11, 2022, 10:23:37 AM

My wife asked me about taking a train trip somewhere for nostalgia etc.  I checked a few AMTRAK prices, it's not competitive with any other mode of travel.  Maybe in Canada.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2022, 10:24:38 AM

When is "season" over, generally?

It's hard to even get a dinner reservation these days. The great places are a MONTH or MORE out right now.

I mean, go home already.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 11, 2022, 10:31:33 AM

The new Persian restaurant near us is packed, we got in for lunch, and it is very very good.  My bud went for dinner and said it was packed and way too noisy.  I was very impressed, and they have probably the prime location in the area.  But if you can't get in ...

I'm looking for some other nice places to dine now, we have some good ones, but nothing akin to the French place that closed.  For some reason, we have very few French bistros and restaurants in this city.  We have everything else in abundance, but few French.  Bistros can serve good food at a reasonable price in a casual environment, but I don't know of one.

The NE MARTA line used to be the Yellow Line, they changed it to the Gold line because so many Asians moved out that way.  Asians and Hispanics, it's reall like a foreign country in some respects, many signs are bilingual, if that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 11, 2022, 10:33:34 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2022, 10:24:38 AM

When is "season" over, generally?

It's hard to even get a dinner reservation these days. The great places are a MONTH or MORE out right now.

I mean, go home already.

they all start leaving end of May, and really all gone by April. have to just push through this shit another couple months. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2022, 10:48:11 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 11, 2022, 10:23:37 AM

My wife asked me about taking a train trip somewhere for nostalgia etc.  I checked a few AMTRAK prices, it's not competitive with any other mode of travel.  Maybe in Canada.

Yeah, I just, for fun, looked up Irvine->San Francisco. I can get to the Irvine Amtak station in ~10 minutes, and I believe it's free parking there. 

Surprisingly not as expensive as I would have thought--about $60 each way. That's pretty competitive with driving it alone--it's about 1 tank of gas for my Ford Flex, which is running low $70s range right now w/ Costco gas prices. Of course, my Flex is a 7-passenger vehicle, so scaling for more people is a huge savings if I'm not making the drive alone. 

The downside, of course, is that it's a 12-hour trip. It's 6 hours in the car, and worst case maybe 7+ if you have to cross LA during rush hour. And that there aren't a lot of options each day for timing. The best is showing up in Irvine just before 6 AM and getting to SF at 6 PM, unless you want to do an overnight. 

The other comparison is flying. I can fly for <$100 each way on Southwest, from Orange County to SFO, and they've got TONS of flights each day so there is major flexibility in the schedule. It's a 1 hour flight time, and I'd have to add 30 minutes to get to the airport and park, and arrive at SNA 1 hour before the flight leaves. Then if I want to get to downtown SF I'd have to hop on BART from SFO to downtown, which is probably another $15 and another 45 minutes. So actual full travel time is closer to 3 1/2 hours. But it sure beats 12. 

The "high speed" rail would likely be much more expensive round-trip, and I don't think it'll come close to beating drive time. 

Supposedly it was going to be SF to LA in 2 hrs 40 minutes, but nobody thinks it will actually achieve that for MANY reasons--some technical, some political, and some cost-based: https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-bullet-train-speed-20180729-story.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2022, 11:05:58 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 11, 2022, 10:33:34 AM

they all start leaving end of May, and really all gone by April. have to just push through this shit another couple months.

This is my first year seeing it.

In 2020 and 2021 Canada was not allowed here, and the New Yorkers were afraid to come.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 11, 2022, 11:33:40 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2022, 10:48:11 AM

The "high speed" rail would likely be much more expensive round-trip, and I don't think it'll come close to beating drive time.

Supposedly it was going to be SF to LA in 2 hrs 40 minutes, but nobody thinks it will actually achieve that for MANY reasons--some technical, some political, and some cost-based: https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-bullet-train-speed-20180729-story.html

The main reason is it won't be built beyond the current small segment.  They currently plan to have you take a slow train to Modesto, change trains, to the end of the line, and get on another slow train to LA.  It's beyond silly.  It was absurd when proposed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 11, 2022, 02:26:34 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2022, 10:24:38 AM

When is "season" over, generally?

It's hard to even get a dinner reservation these days. The great places are a MONTH or MORE out right now.

I mean, go home already.

(https://i.imgur.com/Deic30K.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 11, 2022, 02:56:16 PM

It's a funny sentiment.

Those yankees keep many small businesses going down along the coast.

But please, hurry up and leave.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2022, 03:17:45 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 11, 2022, 02:56:16 PM

It's a funny sentiment.

Those yankees keep many small businesses going down along the coast.

But please, hurry up and leave.

Yes, so that the permanents residents can start going back to those businesses.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 11, 2022, 04:17:18 PM

But without the yankees' $$$, you couldn't.  
Duh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 11, 2022, 05:01:27 PM

Why Are Gas Prices Going Up? (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15119896/why-are-gas-prices-going-up-when-demand-is-going-down-feature/?utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR35hgxutl8uwD4ALiIIFLKiBic1hNbiM1wLE1bEHTo0NexiGb_2kSDUEPY)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 11, 2022, 06:45:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 11, 2022, 05:01:27 PM

Why Are Gas Prices Going Up? (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15119896/why-are-gas-prices-going-up-when-demand-is-going-down-feature/?utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR35hgxutl8uwD4ALiIIFLKiBic1hNbiM1wLE1bEHTo0NexiGb_2kSDUEPY)

the short version: because we have a weak ineffective leader who no one around the world respects. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 11, 2022, 09:38:40 PM

Travelers of the Great Loop, a circumnavigation of the eastern U.S., award the title to the expeditionists who accomplish the route more than once.

Boaters journey more than 5,000 miles through the Gulf of Mexico, the inland rivers, the Great Lakes, the Canadian Canals, the New York State Canals and the Atlantic Intracoastal Waterway. Depending on the route a cruiser makes, they will go through at least 15 U.S. states and a couple Canadian provinces.

Traditionally people spend about a year completing the route, moving in rhythm with the seasons. Boaters aim to be on the northern part of the loop during the summer months, the inland rivers in the fall, snowbird in Florida and spend the spring up the eastern portion of the route.


https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2022/03/09/downtown-nashville-great-loop-boat-docking-more-amenities-bring-boaters/6845686001/ (https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2022/03/09/downtown-nashville-great-loop-boat-docking-more-amenities-bring-boaters/6845686001/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 11, 2022, 09:56:36 PM

When an item is tossed into a recycle bin, you'd suspect it will be repurposed and stay out of the landfill. But that's not always the case. In fact, about 26% of items sent to the recycle facility last year, went to the landfill instead.

The company is now taking some items they didn't used to in the past. Recycle yards that Waste Management sends recyclables to will now take plastic lids if they are screwed on tight.

"The lids used to not be recyclable because they’re typically a different breed of plastic but recyclers have adapted to us recyclers because we weren’t following those rules all that very well so they had to adapt their process to be able to handle the different grade of plastic that was coming in," Eckman said.


https://mynews4.com/news/local/renos-waste-management-nevada-how-much-of-your-recycling-actually-ends-up-in-the-landfill-trash-sparks-washoe-county (https://mynews4.com/news/local/renos-waste-management-nevada-how-much-of-your-recycling-actually-ends-up-in-the-landfill-trash-sparks-washoe-county)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 11, 2022, 10:16:36 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/274948085_5277897702268310_8277197899643898675_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=WW992cmu_bYAX9WC7cJ&tn=_MnT8OkIfzNoswba&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9C8BOwU4OsiqeK_PCe5nu1bazTDwrraAZI7lsMQXFMfw&oe=62304BA5)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 11, 2022, 10:26:14 PM

gas prices are connected to crude oil prices which are determined mainly by supply

the supply of crude oil in the US is affected by the actions of the President

so the President can affect gasoline prices

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2022, 09:03:05 AM

Inflation, explained by eggs

There’s a lot of chatter around exactly why inflation is relatively high, not only in the United States but globally. Some people blame the pandemic, others the supply chain, others government spending, others corporate greed. The truth of the matter is that there is a mix of factors in play, and there’s no one simple answer to how we got here — or solution to how to get out of this. To the average person, the whole thing can feel confusing. So we figured we’d take a crack at it by deciphering the case of the egg.

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2022/3/2/22956966/inflation-explained-by-eggs (https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2022/3/2/22956966/inflation-explained-by-eggs)

As Marc Dresner, director of integrated communications at the American Egg Board, put it, “It’s not like we have eggs sitting in tankers off the coast of Los Angeles.” But still, the egg industry, like every industry, is facing higher prices and challenges that are leading to costlier eggs for consumers overall.

A fun fact: In the ‘60s, amid concerns about inflation and rising prices, President Lyndon Johnson asked the US surgeon general to put out an alert about cholesterol in eggs, apparently trying to curb demand. It didn’t really help, because prices were up among a bunch of items, not just a few — which is also the scenario we find ourselves in now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 12, 2022, 10:00:26 AM

We had deflation because of suppressed demand during COVID, then we had government sending most of us money when we couldn't really spend it.  That pressure built up into demand that increased much faster than supply.  I've been noting many hotels and car rental places booked up when generally they would not be.  And they have raised prices quite a bit as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2022, 10:02:21 AM

government botched it again

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 12, 2022, 10:29:34 AM

"It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues. There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men. The words of Ten Bears carries the same iron of life and death. It is good that warriors such as we meet in the struggle of life... or death. It shall be life."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 12, 2022, 10:48:24 AM

Jeep Wrangler Engine Annihilated After Being Towed In 4-Low, Revving To Over 50,000 RPM | Carscoops (https://www.carscoops.com/2021/03/jeep-wrangler-engine-annihilated-after-being-towed-in-4-low-revving-to-over-50000-rpm/#Echobox=1647004758)


Holy cow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 12, 2022, 10:54:20 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 12, 2022, 10:48:24 AM

Jeep Wrangler Engine Annihilated After Being Towed In 4-Low, Revving To Over 50,000 RPM | Carscoops (https://www.carscoops.com/2021/03/jeep-wrangler-engine-annihilated-after-being-towed-in-4-low-revving-to-over-50000-rpm/#Echobox=1647004758)


Holy cow.

Oops!

I was trying to figure out if this was stupidity or inattention (i.e. 4L is right by neutral on the shifter, so if someone who had towed Jeeps for many years made a mistake with the transfer case shift lever, it could just be inattention). 

But I see it's a 2021 Jeep, so there's a good chance the RV owner didn't know what the hell they were doing. I.e. stupidity. 

I've never towed my Jeep, but even I know that you can't do this. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 12, 2022, 10:57:08 AM

I would think they might have noticed when the RV didn't seem to be pulling very stoutly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 12, 2022, 10:58:46 AM

As I understand it, on the latest gen Jeeps there are a couple of steps required to disengage the transmission completely.  Perhaps not all steps were followed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 12, 2022, 11:05:17 AM

Obviously, dragging it in 4-L would be worse than dragging it in N or even D.

The poor things tires must have been flat spotted too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2022, 11:08:59 AM

the RV probably wasn't getting good MPG either

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 12, 2022, 11:41:29 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 12, 2022, 10:57:08 AM

I would think they might have noticed when the RV didn't seem to be pulling very stoutly.

Might have been new to RV ownership too and couldn't tell the difference...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 12, 2022, 11:44:29 AM

I guess after a few miles, the gear box just melted, as seen, and then was in neutral.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 12, 2022, 11:54:52 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 12, 2022, 11:41:29 AM

Might have been new to RV ownership too and couldn't tell the difference...

Yup.  My guess is, new to both.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 12, 2022, 11:59:01 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 11, 2022, 10:26:14 PM

gas prices are connected to crude oil prices which are determined mainly by supply

the supply of crude oil in the US is affected by the actions of the President

so the President can affect gasoline prices

This post wouldn't have seen the light of day 4 years ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 12, 2022, 12:17:33 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/Yf6DeFV.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2022, 02:27:51 PM

Road to table: Wyoming’s got a new app for claiming roadkill

https://apnews.com/article/technology-lander-wyoming-animals-lifestyle-47a2c9bc266d5b52f724fd2126bfc366 (https://apnews.com/article/technology-lander-wyoming-animals-lifestyle-47a2c9bc266d5b52f724fd2126bfc366)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 13, 2022, 05:50:14 AM

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/more-republicans-than-democrats-say-they-d-stay-and-fight-if-u-s-were-attacked-like-ukraine/ar-AAUNh3S

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2022, 07:05:48 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 11, 2022, 04:17:18 PM

But without the yankees' $$$, you couldn't. 
Duh.

There is PLENTY of money down here without those assholes coming down.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2022, 07:07:45 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 11, 2022, 09:38:40 PM

Travelers of the Great Loop, a circumnavigation of the eastern U.S., award the title to the expeditionists who accomplish the route more than once.

Boaters journey more than 5,000 miles through the Gulf of Mexico, the inland rivers, the Great Lakes, the Canadian Canals, the New York State Canals and the Atlantic Intracoastal Waterway. Depending on the route a cruiser makes, they will go through at least 15 U.S. states and a couple Canadian provinces.

Traditionally people spend about a year completing the route, moving in rhythm with the seasons. Boaters aim to be on the northern part of the loop during the summer months, the inland rivers in the fall, snowbird in Florida and spend the spring up the eastern portion of the route.


https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2022/03/09/downtown-nashville-great-loop-boat-docking-more-amenities-bring-boaters/6845686001/ (https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2022/03/09/downtown-nashville-great-loop-boat-docking-more-amenities-bring-boaters/6845686001/)

I have a few friends who have done this. Counter-clockwise is the way to go.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2022, 07:13:51 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 13, 2022, 05:50:14 AM

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/more-republicans-than-democrats-say-they-d-stay-and-fight-if-u-s-were-attacked-like-ukraine/ar-AAUNh3S

I saw that.


Do you think it's possible that they leave now, and skip the possibility of invasion completely?

Maybe Canada would take them in.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2022, 07:20:26 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 12, 2022, 11:59:01 AM

This post wouldn't have seen the light of day 4 years ago.

Of course it wouldn't. 4 years ago prices weren't bad. Got gas yesterday. Over $5/gallon now. I should have taken a picture, but there was a sticker on the pump:


(https://i.imgur.com/rg0G8nN.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 13, 2022, 07:27:39 AM

Trump didn't raise gas prices, he taught us to home school our kids

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2022, 07:44:28 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 13, 2022, 07:27:39 AM

Trump didn't raise gas prices, he taught us to home school our kids

China and the woke teachers did that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2022, 07:53:28 AM

WTF...

Missiles fired toward US consulate in Iraq came from Iran: officials | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/world/missile-strike-near-us-consulate-in-erbil-iraq-no-american-casualties-reported)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 13, 2022, 08:13:08 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2022, 07:53:28 AM

WTF...

Missiles fired toward US consulate in Iraq came from Iran: officials | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/world/missile-strike-near-us-consulate-in-erbil-iraq-no-american-casualties-reported)

Apparently some sort of response to an Israeli missile strike in Syria

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 13, 2022, 08:33:08 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2022, 07:05:48 AM

There is PLENTY of money down here without those assholes coming down.

After Austin that's my next stop

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2022, 09:29:39 AM

How do we know they were fired at the consulate?

Iran says it fired missiles near US consulate in Iraq | TheHill (https://thehill.com/policy/international/middle-east-north-africa/598004-iran-says-it-fired-missiles-near-us-consulate-in-iraq)

Iran on Sunday claimed responsibility for several missile strikes near the U.S. consulate complex in the northern Iraqi city of Irbil, saying that the attack was retaliation for an Israeli strike in Syria that killed two members of the Iran Revolutionary Guard.


The attack resulted in no injuries, according to the Associated Press. (https://apnews.com/article/syria-middle-east-damascus-iraq-iran-7a4ea6281fe6191a4e4b640c58c7fd49)
The country's Revolutionary Guard said in a statement the attack was launched against an Israeli “strategic center of conspiracy” in Irbil, the AP noted. While the statement did not elaborate on the claim, it said Israel had been on the offensive and cited an Israeli missile strike near Damascus, Syria that killed two members of the Iran Revolutionary Guard.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2022, 10:48:34 AM

Why not just deliver a strike on Tel Aviv?

Israel would wipe out Tehran in 15 minutes, that's why.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2022, 10:53:17 AM

I doubt they have much that can reach Tel Aviv.  A long range missile with conventional war head is not very useful unless extremely accurate.

This is also why Israel has not targeted Iran from the air in the past.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2022, 11:49:01 AM

US does not believe consulate in Iraq was target of Iranian missile strike | TheHill (https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/598015-us-does-not-believe-consulate-in-iraq-was-target-of-iranian)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 13, 2022, 12:29:17 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2022, 07:20:26 AM

Of course it wouldn't. 4 years ago prices weren't bad. Got gas yesterday. Over $5/gallon now. I should have taken a picture, but there was a sticker on the pump:


(https://i.imgur.com/rg0G8nN.png)

I refuse to believe you're this stupid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 13, 2022, 12:29:52 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 13, 2022, 05:50:14 AM

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/more-republicans-than-democrats-say-they-d-stay-and-fight-if-u-s-were-attacked-like-ukraine/ar-AAUNh3S

No shit.

If you already have 27 guns, you're wanting to use them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 13, 2022, 12:35:03 PM

😳

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2022, 12:40:10 PM

Right or not, Democrats are going to take a hammering over gas prices, and inflation, which I think is going to get worse and soon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2022, 01:03:48 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/n5Z1mU0.png)

My son's 36th birthday today.  He is standing, uncovered, back row.  I had asked him for a photo of him uncovered somewhere.  With the helmet on at times you can't tell who is who.  He was awarded the CAR, he told me, on his 19th birthday, I had to look up what it was, it made me scared and proud, more scared than anything.

The young Marine kneeling far right came home, and is apparently doing "OK".  The concrete background is part of Haditha Dam.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2022, 01:57:33 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/eT7J8kk.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 13, 2022, 03:07:54 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 13, 2022, 12:40:10 PM

Right or not, Democrats are going to take a hammering over gas prices, and inflation, which I think is going to get worse and soon.

They want credit when it's good and get blamed when it's bad, but aren't actually influencing it in any way.

If the president affected gas prices, each one would outdo the previous one and gas would be free.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2022, 03:49:28 PM

A President can obviously take steps to INFLUENCE gas prices, without question, but he can't dial up any number he wants.

OPEC also can influence oil prices obviously, and they attempt to do so.  People look for simple solutions, anything complicated wont' fly in politics.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 13, 2022, 08:43:16 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 13, 2022, 12:29:17 PM

I refuse to believe you're this stupid.

(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/161231205229-new-years-eve-anderson-cooper-kathy-griffin-puppets-sot-00003908.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2022, 06:55:24 AM

Cash-rich states are slashing taxes amid revenue windfalls (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/12/cash-rich-states-are-slashing-taxes-amid-revenue-windfalls.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2022, 07:38:10 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/vie71zm.png)

View this morning, red sky in morning etc. etc.  36°F

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 14, 2022, 08:02:49 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 13, 2022, 12:29:17 PM

I refuse to believe you're this stupid.

(https://i.imgur.com/3pNd29Y.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 14, 2022, 08:03:26 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2022, 10:48:34 AM

Why not just deliver a strike on Tel Aviv?

Israel would wipe out Tehran in 15 minutes, that's why.

yeah, this. Israel might be the most aggressive nation on planet earth. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2022, 08:05:48 AM

Israel really lacks the offensive capability to launch much of a strike on Iran, the distances are too great.  They could with a one way trip perhaps, and with Saudi concurrence.  I suspect they would have attacked much earlier if they could have done anything of consequence.

If Israel were "left alone", how aggressive would it be outside its borders?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 14, 2022, 09:09:34 AM

https://twitter.com/nbcsnl?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1502890184274235395%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.elevenwarriors.com%2Fskull-sessions%2F2022%2F03%2F129813%2Fohio-state-football-big-ten-has-nine-tournament-teams-patrik-laine-helps-recruit-for-buckeyes-and-saturday-night-live

😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 14, 2022, 10:14:40 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 14, 2022, 08:03:26 AM

yeah, this. Israel might be the most aggressive nation on planet earth.

Even more then Russia or China?

Israel is very aggressive at defending their homeland

Have not seen them invade another country yet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 14, 2022, 11:01:13 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 14, 2022, 08:03:26 AM

yeah, this. Israel might be the most aggressive nation on planet earth.

well had 5-6-7 other nations not come at them all at once attempting to wipe them from the face of the earth maybe it would not be so.They can not afford to let their guard down

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 14, 2022, 11:32:32 AM

One of the things Ive always liked about Israel is that require (or at least used to) all citizens to spend 2 years in the military.  There are some other countries that also do this.

Im a fan of the movie Starship Troopers where if you wanted to become a full citizen who could vote you had to spend one tour in the military.  They didnt make anyone join the military but you could not vote until you did.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 14, 2022, 12:05:42 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 14, 2022, 11:32:32 AM

One of the things Ive always liked about Israel is that require (or at least used to) all citizens to spend 2 years in the military.  There are some other countries that also do this.

Im a fan of the movie Starship Troopers where if you wanted to become a full citizen who could vote you had to spend one tour in the military.  They didnt make anyone join the military but you could not vote until you did.

FYI I highly recommend the book. The book really fleshed out ideas about duty and service that they didn't even remotely attempt to address in the movie. The book is actually quite deep for being a pretty short read, whereas the movie is just a dumb shoot-em-up action flick. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 14, 2022, 12:19:40 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 14, 2022, 12:05:42 PM

FYI I highly recommend the book. The book really fleshed out ideas about duty and service that they didn't even remotely attempt to address in the movie. The book is actually quite deep for being a pretty short read, whereas the movie is just a dumb shoot-em-up action flick.

*with coed showers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 14, 2022, 12:23:02 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 14, 2022, 12:05:42 PM

FYI I highly recommend the book. The book really fleshed out ideas about duty and service that they didn't even remotely attempt to address in the movie. The book is actually quite deep for being a pretty short read, whereas the movie is just a dumb shoot-em-up action flick.

yep thats me to a T

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2022, 12:28:06 PM

Israel has invaded the territory of other countries, specifically in 1967, the attempted to strike preemptively.  One can of course attempt to justify their strikes at Egypt in particular, but they did start the war.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 14, 2022, 12:29:19 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 14, 2022, 11:32:32 AM

One of the things Ive always liked about Israel is that require (or at least used to) all citizens to spend 2 years in the military.  There are some other countries that also do this.

Im a fan of the movie Starship Troopers where if you wanted to become a full citizen who could vote you had to spend one tour in the military.  They didnt make anyone join the military but you could not vote until you did.

You can’t vote until you maybe get disemboweled by aliens.

I’ve known a few folks who served in the IDF. Their takeaways were interesting. You have to serve alongside a more diverse group of folks, so I wonder if that kind of thing would put a dent in our silly divisive regionalism. It also breeds a more centered outlook on firearms, with less phobia or fetishism about them.

One downside is that the ultra religious very often do not serve, often faking mental illness or having outbursts to avoid serving. this is a little problematic, because that particular group tends to be the most hard line and aggressive politically, and grows at a rapid pace generationally. (Many of those communities tend to be pro religious academia, which oft means anti-full time job)

fascinating country that is well worth a visit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 14, 2022, 12:49:56 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 14, 2022, 12:28:06 PM

Israel has invaded the territory of other countries, specifically in 1967, the attempted to strike preemptively.  One can of course attempt to justify their strikes at Egypt in particular, but they did start the war.

Israel did strike first after Egypt closed the straits of Tiran to Israeli ships and massed troops along the border so the question of who started the war is up for debate

Israel has taken many aggressive actions in the past but only to defend its country not to take over another country

One thing they have made very clear is they wont just stand by and allow another country to place Israel in danger

Today most neighboring countries realize this and leave them alone which is all Israel wants

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2022, 12:54:18 PM

The territory Israel claims has expanded quite a bit over the years.

(https://i.imgur.com/HTwe2Bt.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 14, 2022, 12:57:52 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 14, 2022, 12:54:18 PM

The territory Israel claims has expanded quite a bit over the years.

(https://i.imgur.com/HTwe2Bt.png)

Now, do a thousand years before 1946...

Or, two thousand...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2022, 12:58:56 PM

Well, boys, we got three engines out, we got more holes in us than a horse trader's mule, the radio is gone and we're leaking fuel and if we was flying any lower why we'd need sleigh bells on this thing... but we got one little budge on them Rooskies. At this height why they might harpoon us but they dang sure ain't gonna spot us on no radar screen!

Major T. J. "King" Kong

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2022, 01:05:29 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/uiOrVcN.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 14, 2022, 01:09:37 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 14, 2022, 12:57:52 PM

Now, do a thousand years before 1946...

Or, two thousand...

A Caliphate is the answer to the first one, Italians to the second. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 14, 2022, 01:11:27 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 14, 2022, 01:09:37 PM

A Caliphate is the answer to the first one, Italians to the second.

Yup.  Point made successfully, then. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2022, 01:12:22 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/nXQhWJY.png)

US sends nonmilitary aid to Ukraine ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 14, 2022, 01:20:48 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 14, 2022, 01:12:22 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/nXQhWJY.png)

US sends nonmilitary aid to Ukraine ...

no problem they can mount the machine guns in Ukraine

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2022, 01:32:12 PM

Germany to buy US-made F-35s to replace aging bombers - ABC News (go.com) (https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/germany-buy-us-made-35s-replace-ageing-bombers-83435402)

BERLIN -- Germany said Monday that it will replace some of its aging Tornado bomber jets with U.S.-made F-35A Lightning II aircraft capable of carrying nuclear weapons.

Announcing the decision, Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht said Germany also will upgrade its Eurofighter Typhoon fighter jets for electronic warfare — a capability that's also currently fulfilled by the Tornado jets. The Eurofighter will be replaced from 2040 with the Future Combat Air System, or FCAS, that's being jointly developed with France and Spain, she said.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 14, 2022, 01:44:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 14, 2022, 01:32:12 PM

Germany to buy US-made F-35s to replace aging bombers - ABC News (go.com) (https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/germany-buy-us-made-35s-replace-ageing-bombers-83435402)

BERLIN -- Germany said Monday that it will replace some of its aging Tornado bomber jets with U.S.-made F-35A Lightning II aircraft capable of carrying nuclear weapons.

Announcing the decision, Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht said Germany also will upgrade its Eurofighter Typhoon fighter jets for electronic warfare — a capability that's also currently fulfilled by the Tornado jets. The Eurofighter will be replaced from 2040 with the Future Combat Air System, or FCAS, that's being jointly developed with France and Spain, she said.

now all they need is to actually acquire nuclear weapons

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2022, 05:15:59 PM

I don't think they need F-35s to deploy nuclear weapons, it merely is capable of that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 14, 2022, 05:23:26 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 14, 2022, 05:15:59 PM

I don't think they need F-35s to deploy nuclear weapons, it merely is capable of that.

my sarcastic point is why did the article go to the trouble to say the planes were able to carry nuclear weapons when Germany doesnt have any

kinda hyped up the story using a false narrative

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 14, 2022, 05:27:39 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 13, 2022, 03:49:28 PM

A President can obviously take steps to INFLUENCE gas prices, without question, but he can't dial up any number he wants.

OPEC also can influence oil prices obviously, and they attempt to do so.  People look for simple solutions, anything complicated wont' fly in politics.

OPEC produces 40% of the worlds oil and 60% of all worlds oil exports. So by default they'll have the most influence over price. 

Need the Saudis on your side if you want to try to drive the price up or down. Saudis refuse to even talk to the current guy. They did what the old guy told them to every now and then. New guy can't even get them on the phone. Embarrassing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 14, 2022, 05:30:04 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 14, 2022, 01:09:37 PM

A Caliphate is the answer to the first one, Italians to the second.

those god damn italians....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 14, 2022, 05:31:45 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 14, 2022, 05:27:39 PM

OPEC produces 40% of the worlds oil and 60% of all worlds oil exports. So by default they'll have the most influence over price.

Need the Saudis on your side if you want to try to drive the price up or down. Saudis refuse to even talk to the current guy. They did what the old guy told them to every now and then. New guy can't even get them on the phone. Embarrassing.

Maybe we should chop us some dissidents and ship them over as an act of goodwill. 

(Did what the old guy asked, would be the correct phrasing) 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 14, 2022, 06:23:42 PM

Now the Dems have come up with a plan the ease the pain of increased gas prices

They want to tax "excess profits" of oil companies and send it to Americans

Sounds logical - just reduce incentive for oil companies to find and drill oil

that ought to work out great

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 14, 2022, 06:24:19 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 14, 2022, 05:31:45 PM

Maybe we should chop us some dissidents and ship them over as an act of goodwill.

(Did what the old guy asked, would be the correct phrasing)

Saudis have been doing that type of horrendous shit for oh, ever. Hasn't stopped America from being all BFF with them for over 70 years. Ever step foot in DC? How many universities there have entire buildings or monuments donated by the kingdom? 

They are a family dictatorship stuck in the stone age. We helped keep them in power with our military, intelligence services, and arms sales. They made sure we had access to their oil and that money from their oil profits would flow to London and New York and that world oil trade was denominated in US dollars. That's all it's ever been about. They scratch our back, we scratch theirs.

Chopping up a dissident is childs play for them, they do that shit for breakfast. These people crucify and behead people in public on the daily, women are virtually slaves there, they execute people for being gay, and they have completely destroyed Yemen and turned it into the worst humanitarian crisis on planet earth. They export Wahhabism- the most vile extreme form of Islam- (basically terrorism) all over the world and have done so to the tune of $100 billion over the last 40 years. 16 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were from....Saudi Arabia. Osama Bin Laden was from...Saudi Arabia! And a very prominent and wealthy Saudi family with close ties to the Saudi crown at that. There was even reporting done by legendary investigative reporter Sy Hersh that the Saudis were paying the ISI to keep Bin Laden hidden on house arrest in Pakistan. 

The only reason anyone in US pretended to give a squirt of piss about Jamal Khashoggi is because he lived in America for about year and worked for the Washington Post for 6 months. It's kind of embarrassing to be honest with you. Let's all pretend to care now! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2022, 08:13:06 PM

Who defines "excess profits" and how?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 14, 2022, 08:15:11 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 14, 2022, 08:13:06 PM

Who defines "excess profits" and how?

The government, obviously.  And, any way they feel like.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 14, 2022, 09:06:13 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 14, 2022, 06:24:19 PM

Saudis have been doing that type of horrendous shit for oh, ever. Hasn't stopped America from being all BFF with them for over 70 years. Ever step foot in DC? How many universities there have entire buildings or monuments donated by the kingdom?

They are a family dictatorship stuck in the stone age. We helped keep them in power with our military, intelligence services, and arms sales. They made sure we had access to their oil and that money from their oil profits would flow to London and New York and that world oil trade was denominated in US dollars. That's all it's ever been about. They scratch our back, we scratch theirs.

Chopping up a dissident is childs play for them, they do that shit for breakfast. These people crucify and behead people in public on the daily, women are virtually slaves there, they execute people for being gay, and they have completely destroyed Yemen and turned it into the worst humanitarian crisis on planet earth. They export Wahhabism- the most vile extreme form of Islam- (basically terrorism) all over the world and have done so to the tune of $100 billion over the last 40 years. 16 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were from....Saudi Arabia. Osama Bin Laden was from...Saudi Arabia! And a very prominent and wealthy Saudi family with close ties to the Saudi crown at that. There was even reporting done by legendary investigative reporter Sy Hersh that the Saudis were paying the ISI to keep Bin Laden hidden on house arrest in Pakistan.

The only reason anyone in US pretended to give a squirt of piss about Jamal Khashoggi is because he lived in America for about year and worked for the Washington Post for 6 months. It's kind of embarrassing to be honest with you. Let's all pretend to care now!

That's just part of their culture. Objecting to it is Islamophobic. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 14, 2022, 09:21:44 PM

speaking of our Saudi friends.....cool little news segment where the head of religious police talks about the mass execution of 81 heretics. Also kinda funny: Russia Oligarch bad! Sell that soccer team! Saudi royal family member good! you can buy that team for $3.5 billion! 

Also...Saudis continue to laugh at and disrespect Biden. Saudis just invited Xi to an official state visit of the kingdom. Nice.


https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1503466565508993033?s=20&t=tXd-H4XbGL2c4cJ3qnv3Xg

https://twitter.com/AndrewDasNYT/status/1503386076471250957?s=20&t=tXd-H4XbGL2c4cJ3qnv3Xg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 14, 2022, 09:26:10 PM

literally can't make this up....LMAO

https://twitter.com/AliAlAhmed_en/status/1503525624828289025?s=20&t=tXd-H4XbGL2c4cJ3qnv3Xg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 15, 2022, 11:28:24 AM

This is not shocking to me at all. Russia's dirty money did a lot of harm over there. I wonder how much comes here.


Russia duped Europe into energy dependence by funding 'rabid environmental groups': experts | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia-funding-environmental-groups-europe-united-state)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 15, 2022, 02:03:51 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/1pBVvsc.jpg)

Strolled through the botanical garden today, the tulips showed some damage from the freeze.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 15, 2022, 02:04:58 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/suMT77i.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 15, 2022, 02:05:41 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/AYN1sog.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 15, 2022, 02:14:22 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 15, 2022, 11:28:24 AM

This is not shocking to me at all. Russia's dirty money did a lot of harm over there. I wonder how much comes here.


Russia duped Europe into energy dependence by funding 'rabid environmental groups': experts | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia-funding-environmental-groups-europe-united-state)

I don't see how you can title it being "duped" when everyone knew it was happening at the time, and had been happening for years and years, for over a decade.

They went in eyes wide open.  They just didn't think that becoming heavily reliant on energy from Putin's Russia was any big deal.

In many ways it's quite similar to how the US has become so heavily dependent on manufacturing, critical supply chain elements, and critical raw materials, coming from China.  We knew how heavily dependent we'd become, we just didn't see it as a big deal. 

A lot of people-- people that make the most important decisions for the US corporations and government-- still don't understand that it's a big deal. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 15, 2022, 02:20:14 PM

I would say "influenced", not duped.  Germany in particular went off on their "Energiewend" or whatever it was that included closing their power reactors.  Then they couldn't develop their own NG resources.  LNG from the US was expensive.

Whoever paid to build Nord Stream II got hosed.  Germany is an object lesson on how NOT to approach climate change.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 15, 2022, 02:31:12 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 15, 2022, 02:20:14 PM

I would say "influenced", not duped.  Germany in particular went off on their "Energiewend" or whatever it was that included closing their power reactors.  Then they couldn't develop their own NG resources.  LNG from the US was expensive.

Whoever paid to build Nord Stream II got hosed.  Germany is an object lesson on how NOT to approach climate change.

The envirowhacks got duped.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 15, 2022, 02:37:57 PM

Maybe, if they thought the Russian money was to save the environment, or if the donations were third party and they didn't know, or didn't want to know.  It's not that easy, as you know, to get some organization up and running without funding.  You can have a Greta get attention, for a brief time, but she doesn't get anything done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 15, 2022, 02:45:19 PM

The Green party folks knew where the money was coming from. Everybody knew where the money was coming from.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 15, 2022, 02:52:31 PM

Some may not have known, the middle manager types, but that's no excuse.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 15, 2022, 03:11:04 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 15, 2022, 02:45:19 PM

The Green party folks knew where the money was coming from. Everybody knew where the money was coming from.

Of course they did.

The Greta's got duped.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 15, 2022, 03:27:30 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 15, 2022, 02:14:22 PM

I don't see how you can title it being "duped" when everyone knew it was happening at the time, and had been happening for years and years, for over a decade.

They went in eyes wide open.  They just didn't think that becoming heavily reliant on energy from Putin's Russia was any big deal.

In many ways it's quite similar to how the US has become so heavily dependent on manufacturing, critical supply chain elements, and critical raw materials, coming from China.  We knew how heavily dependent we'd become, we just didn't see it as a big deal. 

A lot of people-- people that make the most important decisions for the US corporations and government-- still don't understand that it's a big deal. 

I find the idea of “dependence” in this context interesting. Mostly because I don’t totally know how real it is. Like, the price of “independence” would be enormous, with some spiraling impacts on cost of living, etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 15, 2022, 03:31:45 PM

Finally found an enemy all Americans can oppose

https://twitter.com/AndrewDesiderio/status/1503805130994601995?s=20&t=KqORL7MnAsrheo3FPNaeEg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 15, 2022, 03:34:08 PM

Quote from: ELA on March 15, 2022, 03:31:45 PM

Finally found an enemy all Americans can oppose

https://twitter.com/AndrewDesiderio/status/1503805130994601995?s=20&t=KqORL7MnAsrheo3FPNaeEg

I've been arguing for permanent DST for years. 

Which is just nothing more than never moving our clocks twice a year again, and declaring that each time zone is one hour east of where it is now. 

So instead of Eastern Time being GMT -5:00, it would become GMT -4:00, and Pacific Time would move from GMT -8:00 to GMT -7:00. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 15, 2022, 03:35:17 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 15, 2022, 03:27:30 PM

I find the idea of “dependence” in this context interesting. Mostly because I don’t totally know how real it is. Like, the price of “independence” would be enormous, with some spiraling impacts on cost of living, etc.

Are you talking about Europe/Russia dependence for energy, or the US/China dependence for all the other stuff?

If you're talking about the US, I'll point out that China is no longer even considered the lowest-cost manufacturing nation for the production of many of the goods that we've moved there over the past couple of decades. There are several other nations that can produce a lot of the same products at similar or lower cost, without the threat and the baggage of the CCP.

A shift couldn't happen overnight, but a slow move of critical manufacturing and supply chain from China to other low-cost nations, would not result in some kind of catastrophic impact to cost of living in the USA.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 15, 2022, 03:41:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 15, 2022, 02:20:14 PM

Whoever paid to build Nord Stream II got hosed.  Germany is an object lesson on how NOT to approach climate change.

Seems they have top tier know how and ZERO common sense.Their cars for years have been putting all the bells/whistles that we are seing here in the last 7-8 yrs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 15, 2022, 03:44:32 PM

I'm all for DST being the thing. I would actually prefer Florida be in the Central time zone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 15, 2022, 03:45:47 PM

My Dad has always referred to Daylight Savings Time, and Daylight Wastings Time.  He'll be delighted with this prospect.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 15, 2022, 03:49:08 PM

And yes... this letter is real. It's from 2007.

(https://i.imgur.com/ye9GceH.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 15, 2022, 03:54:25 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 15, 2022, 03:27:30 PM

I find the idea of “dependence” in this context interesting. Mostly because I don’t totally know how real it is. Like, the price of “independence” would be enormous, with some spiraling impacts on cost of living, etc.

I think the bigger argument is that nations and economies should be interdependent, whereas China's policies do not allow for that. 

The US is not dependent on Europe, and Europe is not dependent on the US, nor is either side independent of each other; we are interdependent. 

IMHO China views the world through a mercantilist lens; whoever produces and exports the most wins. So their goal is not interdependence. Their goal is to build everything we need and sell it to us, and build everything they need and sell it domestically, and not let anyone else sell TO them. They want to be independent of anyone else, and they want everyone else to be dependent on them. They believe that is the path to power. 

I know it's an unpopular opinion here, but I believe they've committed a fundamental error in not seeking interdependence. Largely for the reason 94 states--China is no longer really a low cost country (LCC). If they had spent the last 3 decades seeking interdependence, their market would be of critical importance to multinational companies and brands. But they don't let us sell there, so their market is closed. So what will stop us from moving production to other lower-cost nations and withdrawing from China as a market entirely? Nothing. Economic ties are easier to break when you're not interdependent.

China has spent 30 years subsidizing worldwide consumption by mistreating their own people, polluting their own environment, manipulating their currency to keep it weak. Now that they're no longer considered an LCC, they might see companies pulling out, and I'm not sure they've bootstrapped their own economy where they can be competitive without resorting to the tactics they've been using 30 years. 

China thought they were the hot young lady marrying the old fogey, expecting us to die soon, and thought they'd get a windfall inheritance. But we're starting to reach a point where we're thinking about divorce, leaving her nothing, because another LCC PYT has caught our eye.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 15, 2022, 03:56:32 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 15, 2022, 03:44:32 PM

I'm all for DST being the thing. I would actually prefer Florida be in the Central time zone.

It would be the opposite. Florida would move to Atlantic Time, not Central Time. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 15, 2022, 04:02:12 PM

Part of Florida IS in the Central timezone.  You could move up to the Redneck Riviera if it's all that important to you... ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 15, 2022, 04:11:19 PM

I think there should be a Southeastern Time Zone where is just means more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 15, 2022, 04:22:00 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 15, 2022, 03:56:32 PM

It would be the opposite. Florida would move to Atlantic Time, not Central Time.

I know. I would prefer to be in the Central down here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 15, 2022, 04:35:13 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 15, 2022, 04:22:00 PM

I know. I would prefer to be in the Central down here.

Out of curiosity, why? 

I think I might understand... Living in Atlanta for 2 years, it seemed to stay light MUCH later in the evening than Chicago or SoCal. I attribute that to Atlanta being in the very far western part of the Eastern Time Zone, as well as being more south than NY/Boston/Philly/Etc... I enjoyed that, personally. That's actually the reason that I like the idea of shifting every time zone one hour east--get the sun going down later (on the clock) here in SoCal. 

I also know that primetime TV schedules tended to sometimes favor Central rather than Eastern, unless you wanted to be a serious night owl. So to the extent that matters (and maybe it does, maybe it doesn't in our streaming/DVR/timeshifted world), I could see it...

But I'm wondering what your thoughts are. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 15, 2022, 04:37:23 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 15, 2022, 04:35:13 PM

Out of curiosity, why?

I think I might understand... Living in Atlanta for 2 years, it seemed to stay light MUCH later in the evening than Chicago or SoCal. I attribute that to Atlanta being in the very far western part of the Eastern Time Zone, as well as being more south than NY/Boston/Philly/Etc... I enjoyed that, personally. That's actually the reason that I like the idea of shifting every time zone one hour east--get the sun going down later (on the clock) here in SoCal.

I also know that primetime TV schedules tended to sometimes favor Central rather than Eastern, unless you wanted to be a serious night owl. So to the extent that matters (and maybe it does, maybe it doesn't in our streaming/DVR/timeshifted world), I could see it...

But I'm wondering what your thoughts are.

I’m not gonna answer for Badge, but having lived in three time zones, I want my earlier seeming sports.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 15, 2022, 04:39:06 PM

Cincy is almost due north of the ATL, but it stayed light out a bit longer in Cincy because of latitude.

The story of the TZ if fairly interesting, and relates very obliquely to Einstein.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 15, 2022, 04:44:58 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 15, 2022, 04:37:23 PM

I’m not gonna answer for Badge, but having lived in three time zones, I want my earlier seeming sports.

There is that.


Plus, I'm still working and those rat bastage emplpyees/partners up North call me up until 7PM EDT.

I'm gonna start calling THEM at 7AM EDT and see how they like it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 15, 2022, 04:45:57 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 15, 2022, 04:35:13 PM

Out of curiosity, why?

I think I might understand... Living in Atlanta for 2 years, it seemed to stay light MUCH later in the evening than Chicago or SoCal. I attribute that to Atlanta being in the very far western part of the Eastern Time Zone, as well as being more south than NY/Boston/Philly/Etc... I enjoyed that, personally. That's actually the reason that I like the idea of shifting every time zone one hour east--get the sun going down later (on the clock) here in SoCal.

I also know that primetime TV schedules tended to sometimes favor Central rather than Eastern, unless you wanted to be a serious night owl. So to the extent that matters (and maybe it does, maybe it doesn't in our streaming/DVR/timeshifted world), I could see it...

But I'm wondering what your thoughts are.

In addition to the above, I'm an early bird. I like light in the morning, and right now I don't have it for a couple of hours.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 15, 2022, 05:02:13 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 15, 2022, 03:35:17 PM

Are you talking about Europe/Russia dependence for energy, or the US/China dependence for all the other stuff?

If you're talking about the US, I'll point out that China is no longer even considered the lowest-cost manufacturing nation for the production of many of the goods that we've moved there over the past couple of decades. There are several other nations that can produce a lot of the same products at similar or lower cost, without the threat and the baggage of the CCP.

A shift couldn't happen overnight, but a slow move of critical manufacturing and supply chain from China to other low-cost nations, would not result in some kind of catastrophic impact to cost of living in the USA.

Both.

As in, what does it mean to be “independent”? Do we insulate ourselves from these things, at a price to the average citizen, so we don’t owe anyone anything?

as Brad pointed out, this massive nation run by crazy people was going to subsidize the world in large part to feel good about itself. And shoot, that gravy train might be running out. Should we have avoided that?

(sorry, writing at work, so might not be fleshing things out fully)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 15, 2022, 05:04:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 15, 2022, 04:11:19 PM

I think there should be a Southeastern Time Zone where is just means more.

What would that be, just permanently setting your clocks 60 years back?

:57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 15, 2022, 05:08:43 PM

Quote from: ELA on March 15, 2022, 05:04:08 PM

What would that be, just permanently setting your clocks 60 years back?

:57:

This sounds like something the Midwest would be into, to be honest. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 15, 2022, 07:43:46 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 15, 2022, 02:14:22 PM

I don't see how you can title it being "duped" when everyone knew it was happening at the time, and had been happening for years and years, for over a decade.

They went in eyes wide open.  They just didn't think that becoming heavily reliant on energy from Putin's Russia was any big deal.

In many ways it's quite similar to how the US has become so heavily dependent on manufacturing, critical supply chain elements, and critical raw materials, coming from China.  We knew how heavily dependent we'd become, we just didn't see it as a big deal. 

A lot of people-- people that make the most important decisions for the US corporations and government-- still don't understand that it's a big deal.

yeah this all day.

Not buying that Greta Thurnberg was a Russian agent. Is Al Gore one too?

The climate change whack jobs in Europe didn't need any help from Russia for them to shut down nuclear power plants, fracking, move towards natural gas (which is relatively clean compared to all the other fossil fuels). They were gunning for it already- and Europeans are way more hardline on things like that than even Americans- and we have our problems here with those people ourselves.

Wasn't a former Chancellor (their President/PM) appointed head of that NordStream2 pipeline? Uh why yes, I think he was. He a Russian agent too? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 15, 2022, 07:55:37 PM

Dear GOD electing Biden is even worse than I thought....this is the first major sign of potential US decline that I can see. Alarm bells should be going off. Saudi Arabia is literally giving the US two giant middle fingers right now, in large part because they hate Biden so bad.

Saudi Arabia invited Xi to the kingdom on an official state visit- meanwhile they refused to answer Biden's phone calls- and are now in talks to price oil sales to China in the yuan. This is unimaginable to me, as the deal to denominate the oil trade in US dollars was struck with the Saudis in the early 1970s- after Nixon killed Bretton Woods and delinked the US dollar from gold- is what kept the special status of the US dollar as the worlds reserve currency and enhanced it to even greater heights.


China buys more than 25% of the oil that Saudi Arabia exports. China buys more than 45% of the oil that Russia exports. The two largest exporters of oil in the world are shifting away from the US dollar for oil transactions.

Yeah, so this is bad.

https://twitter.com/business/status/1503739315955933189?s=20&t=fLZjtVmhswmBxz1IVNWO-Q

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2022, 03:51:53 AM

Herschel Walker was a great college RB.

Not too bright, though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 06:09:25 AM

Six turning and four burning.(https://i.imgur.com/dmuhBkJ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 16, 2022, 06:29:49 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 15, 2022, 07:55:37 PM

Dear GOD electing Biden is even worse than I thought....this is the first major sign of potential US decline that I can see. Alarm bells should be going off. Saudi Arabia is literally giving the US two giant middle fingers right now, in large part because they hate Biden so bad.

Saudi Arabia invited Xi to the kingdom on an official state visit- meanwhile they refused to answer Biden's phone calls- and are now in talks to price oil sales to China in the yuan. This is unimaginable to me, as the deal to denominate the oil trade in US dollars was struck with the Saudis in the early 1970s- after Nixon killed Bretton Woods and delinked the US dollar from gold- is what kept the special status of the US dollar as the worlds reserve currency and enhanced it to even greater heights.


China buys more than 25% of the oil that Saudi Arabia exports. China buys more than 45% of the oil that Russia exports. The two largest exporters of oil in the world are shifting away from the US dollar for oil transactions.

Yeah, so this is bad.

https://twitter.com/business/status/1503739315955933189?s=20&t=fLZjtVmhswmBxz1IVNWO-Q

This will be devastating to the US Economy.  But you won’t hear the “elected officials” talk about it much, nor their minion sheep in MSM or social media.  Two reasons:  they are too stupid to understand it or/ and, it strays from their current, themed talking points and narrative- all our economic problems are Putins fault.

The “hey- look over there” distraction theory.  Why else do you bring in TikTok influencers to the White House to help spread your “message” that all our problems regarding gas prices in inflation are Putin’s fault?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 06:38:40 AM

Saudi Switch to Yuan Seen as Symbolic, Not True Threat to Dollar - Bloomberg (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-15/saudi-switch-to-yuan-seen-as-symbolic-not-true-threat-to-dollar)

Dollar Vs. Yuan: Saudis Eye Shift to China's Currency in Oil Deal (businessinsider.com) (http://markets.businessinsider.com/news/currencies/us-dollar-vs-yuan-saudi-arabia-china-oil-sales-deal-2022-3)

So, if this happened, it would mean SA would end up with a lot of Yuan in their coffers, which would need to be exchanged for dollars or euros at some point to buy "stuff" other than from China and a few others.  I think the larger issue is how a few countries export so much they have an enormous balance of trade surplus.

Yuan jumps after report Saudis consider its use in oil deals | Oil and Gas News | Al Jazeera (https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2022/3/15/yuan-jumps-after-report-saudis-consider-its-use-in-oil-deals)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 16, 2022, 06:44:40 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 06:38:40 AM

Saudi Switch to Yuan Seen as Symbolic, Not True Threat to Dollar - Bloomberg (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-15/saudi-switch-to-yuan-seen-as-symbolic-not-true-threat-to-dollar)

Dollar Vs. Yuan: Saudis Eye Shift to China's Currency in Oil Deal (businessinsider.com) (http://markets.businessinsider.com/news/currencies/us-dollar-vs-yuan-saudi-arabia-china-oil-sales-deal-2022-3)

So, if this happened, it would mean SA would end up with a lot of Yuan in their coffers, which would need to be exchanged for dollars or euros at some point to buy "stuff" other than from China and a few others.  I think the larger issue is how a few countries export so much they have an enormous balance of trade surplus.

Yuan jumps after report Saudis consider its use in oil deals | Oil and Gas News | Al Jazeera (https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2022/3/15/yuan-jumps-after-report-saudis-consider-its-use-in-oil-deals)

It’s much bigger than that.

https://www.markavis.org/2022/03/16/the-end-of-the-petrodollar-a-seismic-shift/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 16, 2022, 06:58:26 AM

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Saudi-Arabia-Considers-Ditching-The-Dollar-For-Chinese-Oil-Sales.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 07:13:27 AM

I've read "analysts" who say it's not that big a deal, and other say it's an enormous deal.  I don't know, I suspect they don't either.  Reality may be in between.  The Fed has pumped enormous liquidity into our market in a brief period of time and that concerns me, a lot.  Our government is still running massive deficits in a time of economic expansion, that ain't good.  We continue to run a large trade deficit, decade after decade.  All that together isn't good, in my view, but the ultimate collapse, if there is one, could be years off, or tomorrow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 16, 2022, 07:21:13 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 07:13:27 AM

I've read "analysts" who say it's not that big a deal, and other say it's an enormous deal.  I don't know, I suspect they don't either.  Reality may be in between.  The Fed has pumped enormous liquidity into our market in a brief period of time and that concerns me, a lot.  Our government is still running massive deficits in a time of economic expansion, that ain't good.  We continue to run a large trade deficit, decade after decade.  All that together isn't good, in my view, but the ultimate collapse, if there is one, could be years off, or tomorrow.

The real debate is- will it actually happen? Will the dollar be replaced as the worlds dominant currency.  If yes, when. 

If it it does happen- there is not much debate as to whether it hurts us economically- other than the question of to what degree. 

your right on with your concerns- we are infusing printed money at a pace that will burn us. It is not sustainable and the pain will be quicker, more sever and longer lasting if the petrodollar ends.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 07:31:28 AM

There are multiple factors at play, I'm not going to pick one and claim it's the end, too many moving parts.  Maybe one is the straw on the camel at some point.

I'm quite concerned about a recession this year with the Fed basically almost out of bullets.  Fed policy is the highest concern to me.  Well, one of.

I saw a chart on M1 over time that was literally incredible, I had not seen this before, I don't know why it's not more "in the news".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 07:41:47 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/fOfOQ3V.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 07:44:25 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/1oJ9rnt.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 07:47:46 AM

What’s behind the recent surge in the M1 money supply? | FRED Blog (stlouisfed.org) (https://fredblog.stlouisfed.org/2021/01/whats-behind-the-recent-surge-in-the-m1-money-supply/)

Maybe it's an accounting change with M1 and M2.  That makes more sense, to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 16, 2022, 07:50:24 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 07:31:28 AM

There are multiple factors at play, I'm not going to pick one and claim it's the end, too many moving parts.  Maybe one is the straw on the camel at some point.

I'm quite concerned about a recession this year with the Fed basically almost out of bullets.  Fed policy is the highest concern to me.  Well, one of.

I saw a chart on M1 over time that was literally incredible, I had not seen this before, I don't know why it's not more "in the news".

Yep. M1 is outrageous- inflationary and as you say, leaves the Fed with few options.  Plan on rising interest rates and somewhere between a moderate recession to something much worse. 
As to why it’s not more “ in the news”—I think it is pretty obvious and I addressed that up thread. ( and no- one party is NOT to blame- both are)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 07:56:30 AM

I spend much of the day reading financial news, in large part because I think it is more realistic and less partisan than the "news news".  Investors can't afford some partisan take (much) when their money is at risk.  This was from June.

Analysis: Economists eye surging money supply as inflation fears mount | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/business/economists-eye-surging-money-supply-inflation-fears-mount-2021-06-17/)

For fun, I'll look at CNBC and then briefly look at MSNBC, same "network", entirely different focus.  MSNBC.com is, to me, comical,  really more akin to some hard right wing "news" sites, more than Fox News.  CNBC is more focused on stuff that matters to investors.  I scan several of them to try and catch up on what may be important.

MSNBC has almost nothing without Trump in the public eye.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2022, 08:07:37 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 15, 2022, 07:43:46 PM

yeah this all day.

Not buying that Greta Thurnberg was a Russian agent. Is Al Gore one too?

The climate change whack jobs in Europe didn't need any help from Russia for them to shut down nuclear power plants, fracking, move towards natural gas (which is relatively clean compared to all the other fossil fuels). They were gunning for it already- and Europeans are way more hardline on things like that than even Americans- and we have our problems here with those people ourselves.

Wasn't a former Chancellor (their President/PM) appointed head of that NordStream2 pipeline? Uh why yes, I think he was. He a Russian agent too?

Of course. He created the internet, and is now a supreme hacker.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2022, 08:11:42 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 07:56:30 AM

I spend much of the day reading financial news, in large part because I think it is more realistic and less partisan than the "news news".  Investors can't afford some partisan take (much) when their money is at risk.  This was from June.

Analysis: Economists eye surging money supply as inflation fears mount | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/business/economists-eye-surging-money-supply-inflation-fears-mount-2021-06-17/)

For fun, I'll look at CNBC and then briefly look at MSNBC, same "network", entirely different focus.  MSNBC.com is, to me, comical,  really more akin to some hard right wing "news" sites, more than Fox News.  CNBC is more focused on stuff that matters to investors.  I scan several of them to try and catch up on what may be important.

MSNBC has almost nothing without Trump in the public eye.

Left MSNBC = OAN Right

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2022, 08:33:40 AM

How can someone this f'ing stupid be #2?

(https://i.imgur.com/jG9gCy3.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 16, 2022, 08:37:19 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2022, 08:33:40 AM

How can someone this f'ing stupid be #2?

(https://i.imgur.com/jG9gCy3.png)

You can’t make this shit up!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 08:42:34 AM

One can stand with the Ukrainian people AND with NATO, I don't see the issue here.

Harris to become Biden road warrior  | TheHill (https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/598351-harris-to-become-biden-road-warrior)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2022, 08:44:39 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 08:42:34 AM

One can stand with the Ukrainian people AND with NATO, I don't see the issue here.

The issue is that the tweet is now deleted.

Someone reminded her that Ukraine is not a member of NATO, and told her to take the tweet down.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 16, 2022, 08:46:55 AM

:57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 08:48:07 AM

Now-deleted Kamala Harris tweet claimed US is supporting Ukraine 'in defense of the NATO alliance' | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/kamala-harris-again-says-us-is-supporting-ukraine-in-defense-of-the-nato-alliance)

This says they added "and" to the tweet.  What she actually said doesn't have the "and" in it, which is problematic of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 16, 2022, 08:55:15 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2022, 08:44:39 AM

The issue is that the tweet is now deleted.

Someone reminded her that Ukraine is not a member of NATO, and told her to take the tweet down.

Badge. You’re a smart man. There’s almost very little chance that she herself wrote that tweet. These things are, most of the time, carefully curated outlets, unless you’re just out there to vent feelings or something.

I’m sure the tweet was deleted, as it was unclear and caught a raft of shit, and some pols lack the stomach to be like “I stand by my arguably wrong stuff.” And one can argue if that’s a great weakness or just sort of meh. (Not to defend the lady as to say this particular thing is offended for offended’s sake content milling and not much else)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 16, 2022, 08:56:42 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 08:48:07 AM

Now-deleted Kamala Harris tweet claimed US is supporting Ukraine 'in defense of the NATO alliance' | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/kamala-harris-again-says-us-is-supporting-ukraine-in-defense-of-the-nato-alliance)

This says they added "and" to the tweet.  What she actually said doesn't have the "and" in it, which is problematic of course.

I have read in a couple places on this board that the media is pretty untrustworthy, so we can add that particular outlet to the untrustworthy list.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 16, 2022, 08:57:58 AM

Biden has a medical excuse for being a cluttered mutt .I don't believe for one second Kamela showed her work during the BAR EXAM some how she either worked it off and got a waiver or after 3 tries they gave her  True/False Test.No BAB after listening to her unrehersed rants she owns that there is no doubt,she has that trail of bread crumbs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2022, 09:18:51 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 16, 2022, 08:56:42 AM

I have read in a couple places on this board that the media is pretty untrustworthy, so we can add that particular outlet to the untrustworthy list.

It's on several outlets. Pick one, I guess?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2022, 09:20:08 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 16, 2022, 08:55:15 AM

Badge. You’re a smart man. There’s almost very little chance that she herself wrote that tweet. These things are, most of the time, carefully curated outlets, unless you’re just out there to vent feelings or something.

I’m sure the tweet was deleted, as it was unclear and caught a raft of shit, and some pols lack the stomach to be like “I stand by my arguably wrong stuff.” And one can argue if that’s a great weakness or just sort of meh. (Not to defend the lady as to say this particular thing is offended for offended’s sake content milling and not much else)

Not so much with this one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 16, 2022, 09:21:03 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2022, 09:18:51 AM

It's on several outlets. Pick one, I guess?

“The media”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 16, 2022, 09:21:51 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2022, 09:20:08 AM

Not so much with this one.

Ha! Fair point. Over and yet under curated at the same time. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 09:22:02 AM

Tweet aside, her actual words were spoken, and recorded.  She didn't say "and".

But, of the various things she has said, this one is pretty mild I think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2022, 09:25:28 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 09:22:02 AM

Tweet aside, her actual words were spoken, and recorded.  She didn't say "and".

But, of the various things she has said, this one is pretty mild I think.

We could do at least one a day with her. Maybe a new thread called Stupid Things Said Today, or something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 16, 2022, 09:30:19 AM

You're talking about Biden's insurance policy. It was actually pretty smart of him to choose Harris as his running mate. As bad as he is, do you think anyone really wants her in charge? :93:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 16, 2022, 09:32:12 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2022, 09:25:28 AM

We could do at least one a day with her. Maybe a new thread called Stupid Things Said Today, or something.

We don’t have enough days if we start digging into stupid shit pols say. 

They all talk so much and we have such access. And lord, the stupid shit. Had a dang leader of the world live journaling and firing off bad zingers for like four years. (Note: some of the zingers were good, though still stupid)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 09:34:23 AM

I believe policy decisions are made by "staffers" at the WH, the President is basically a figurehead, someone you hope can read the teleprompter.  The staffers "bake" the information so only one decision is obvious, and the President complies.  This can be circular where the staffers try and divine what the President wants to be true, and spin the information to make it so.

I saw this at work, frequently, with few exceptions.  The underlings trying to get promoted would spin facts to fit what they thought the VP really wanted to hear.  Some did the opposite, and told the truth as best they could, they didn't thrive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2022, 09:37:40 AM

I don't know much about the Daily Mail, but this one caught my eye.


Sources say BLOATED Putin has 'roid rage' from steroid treatment (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/sources-say-bloated-putin-has-roid-rage-from-steroid-treatment/ss-AAV8eu9?ocid=msedgntp#image=1)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 09:39:45 AM

When I see "sources say", I may file it away for later reference, but I find "sources" say a lot of S.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 16, 2022, 09:42:40 AM

She should have called Putin a genius. That would get her way more support

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 16, 2022, 09:46:55 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2022, 09:37:40 AM

I don't know much about the Daily Mail, but this one caught my eye.


Sources say BLOATED Putin has 'roid rage' from steroid treatment (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/sources-say-bloated-putin-has-roid-rage-from-steroid-treatment/ss-AAV8eu9?ocid=msedgntp#image=1)

That seems fantastical and dicey, but I would be unsurprised if there was something weird and wonky wrong with him. Some of the stuff those despots think is bizarre

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2022, 09:55:02 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 16, 2022, 09:42:40 AM

She should have called Putin a genius. That would get her way more support

That comment would also land in the stupid thread, even though it may be true. Make sense?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 11:06:44 AM

I would have said before this that Putin was an effective and savvy leader, obviously Machiavellian and then some.  I doubt he's a genius.  He may be surrounded by sycophants who told him this would be a walkover and cement his legacy.  I imagine an adviser who says what he doesn't like hearing could be ex.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2022, 11:10:26 AM

LMAO. They also want Alaska back.

Russian state TV demands REPARATIONS over US sanctions and public hangings in Ukraine | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10614915/Russian-state-TV-demands-REPARATIONS-sanctions-public-hangings-Ukraine.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 16, 2022, 11:42:00 AM

Costco $5.49/gallon. Passed an Arco (cheapest other than Costco) on the way at $5.99/gal...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 11:42:56 AM

Ouch.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 16, 2022, 11:44:09 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 06:38:40 AM

Saudi Switch to Yuan Seen as Symbolic, Not True Threat to Dollar - Bloomberg (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-15/saudi-switch-to-yuan-seen-as-symbolic-not-true-threat-to-dollar)

Dollar Vs. Yuan: Saudis Eye Shift to China's Currency in Oil Deal (businessinsider.com) (http://markets.businessinsider.com/news/currencies/us-dollar-vs-yuan-saudi-arabia-china-oil-sales-deal-2022-3)

So, if this happened, it would mean SA would end up with a lot of Yuan in their coffers, which would need to be exchanged for dollars or euros at some point to buy "stuff" other than from China and a few others.  I think the larger issue is how a few countries export so much they have an enormous balance of trade surplus.

Yuan jumps after report Saudis consider its use in oil deals | Oil and Gas News | Al Jazeera (https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2022/3/15/yuan-jumps-after-report-saudis-consider-its-use-in-oil-deals)

yeah, it's a threat that it's even being talked about. And it could signal the end of US hegemony if the US loses it's special status as the reserve currency of the world. China buys over a quarter of Saudis oil exports. They buy almost half of Russian oil exports. These are the #1 and #2 oil exporters in the entire world. Both are trying to pivot away from the US dollar. That is god awful and the consequences could be dire if it causes a chain reaction and everyone pivots away.

You can print all the money you want for shits and gigs and run deficits until the end of time when everyone needs your currency. Can't do that when they don't. 

And it's not just about that either- Saudi petrodollars are recycled back into the US. They will start recycling them back into China now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 16, 2022, 11:44:39 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 07:13:27 AM

I've read "analysts" who say it's not that big a deal, and other say it's an enormous deal.  I don't know, I suspect they don't either.  Reality may be in between.  The Fed has pumped enormous liquidity into our market in a brief period of time and that concerns me, a lot.  Our government is still running massive deficits in a time of economic expansion, that ain't good.  We continue to run a large trade deficit, decade after decade.  All that together isn't good, in my view, but the ultimate collapse, if there is one, could be years off, or tomorrow.

Yeah and we can print money and borrow forever because: everyone in the world needs our currency. Take that away- we f**ked. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 16, 2022, 11:44:52 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 16, 2022, 08:55:15 AM

Badge. You’re a smart man. There’s almost very little chance that she herself wrote that tweet. These things are, most of the time, carefully curated outlets, unless you’re just out there to vent feelings or something.

tweet? who cares about a deleted tweet. the f**king IDIOT actually said the exact same thing in person. do not underestimate the stupidity of these people. she is very clearly a vapid, stupid person. she has exposed herself as being such, time and time and time again. 

I feel like Kamala Harris belongs on that show The View. Like Tim Dillon said, there are so many brilliant women out there in the US. None of them are on The View. There are so many brilliant women out there in US. None of them are the Vice President of the United States of America.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 16, 2022, 11:47:53 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 16, 2022, 09:30:19 AM

You're talking about Biden's insurance policy. It was actually pretty smart of him to choose Harris as his running mate. As bad as he is, do you think anyone really wants her in charge? :93:

the idea of that lady as the president of the united states is truly terrifying. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 16, 2022, 11:56:54 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2022, 11:10:26 AM

LMAO. They also want Alaska back.

Russian state TV demands REPARATIONS over US sanctions and public hangings in Ukraine | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10614915/Russian-state-TV-demands-REPARATIONS-sanctions-public-hangings-Ukraine.html)

I’d be more unsettled but their pols and pundits acting like psychopaths if … well … we didn’t have a good bit of that here 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 11:58:15 AM

I figure China has plenty of dollars.  Is Saudi Arabia is happy with Yuan, they could convert them to dollars or Euros with relative ease.

I know a fair number of countries use the dollar as a de facto currency, including Russia.  I recall something about how many counterfeit dollars are out there.  This soaks up a lot of US currency.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2022, 12:20:43 PM

AAA Gas Prices (https://gasprices.aaa.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 16, 2022, 12:23:12 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 11:58:15 AM

I figure China has plenty of dollars.  Is Saudi Arabia is happy with Yuan, they could convert them to dollars or Euros with relative ease.

I know a fair number of countries use the dollar as a de facto currency, including Russia.  I recall something about how many counterfeit dollars are out there.  This soaks up a lot of US currency.

it’s not about country a or b having plenty of dollars. 

it’s about the need/demand for US dollars and those US dollars being recycled back into the US.

world oil trade is virtually 100% done in US dollars. Just under half (think it’s 45%) of world trade is done in US dollars. Cross border payments even higher than that- it’s north of 80%. 

This is very bad if it happens. Period.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 16, 2022, 12:28:38 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2022, 11:10:26 AM

LMAO. They also want Alaska back.

Russian state TV demands REPARATIONS over US sanctions and public hangings in Ukraine | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10614915/Russian-state-TV-demands-REPARATIONS-sanctions-public-hangings-Ukraine.html)

The BabalonBee was all over this a couple of days ago.

Biden to sell Alaska to Russia (https://babylonbee.com/news/biden-sells-alaska-back-to-russia-so-we-can-start-drilling-for-oil-there-again) (https://babylonbee.com/news/biden-sells-alaska-back-to-russia-so-we-can-start-drilling-for-oil-there-again)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 12:29:50 PM

China’s currency displacing the dollar in global oil trade? Don’t count on it. (brookings.edu) (https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2018/04/19/chinas-currency-displacing-the-dollar-in-global-oil-trade-dont-count-on-it/)

I've been reading a bit about this for a decade now.  The above is from 2018.  I expect over time, more oil will be traded in something other than dollars, gradually.  Saudi only uses dollars now, but other countries already accept other currencies.  Anything that happens is very likely to be gradual.

Saudi Arabia reportedly considering accepting yuan instead of dollar for oil sales | TheHill (https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/598257-saudi-arabia-considers-accepting-yuan-instead-of-dollar-for-oil)

Nearly 80 percent of global oil sales are priced in dollars, and since the mid-1970s the Saudis have exclusively used the dollar for oil trading as part of a security agreement with the U.S. government, according to the Journal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 16, 2022, 12:36:55 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 16, 2022, 11:47:53 AM

the idea of that lady as the president of the united states is truly terrifying.

That's why he picked her. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 16, 2022, 12:37:09 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2022, 12:20:43 PM

AAA Gas Prices (https://gasprices.aaa.com/)

$3.85 at my Costco.  It was $3.13 two weeks ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 12:58:56 PM

WTI has stabilized around $95 today, for the time being.  At least that suggests we won't see continued increases, and probably will have a smallish drop.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 16, 2022, 01:03:55 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 12:58:56 PM

WTI has stabilized around $95 today, for the time being.  At least that suggests we won't see continued increases, and probably will have a smallish drop.

OPEC has to be careful not to let the price go too high else a lot of folks in America will start up production in spite of all the road blocks the Potted Plant has put in place

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 01:07:00 PM

I think it more reflects the belief Ukraine isn't going to be as disruptive to markets as was feared.  I don't think OPEC is pumping more.  And there likely was some short covering going on.

I think it was the OXY president who said they couldn't pump more in the US right now due to parts and labor shortages.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 16, 2022, 01:17:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 01:07:00 PM

I think it more reflects the belief Ukraine isn't going to be as disruptive to markets as was feared.  I don't think OPEC is pumping more.  And there likely was some short covering going on.

I think it was the OXY president who said they couldn't pump more in the US right now due to parts and labor shortages.

I agree but its the future Im talking about

OPEC does not want every mom and pop oil producer jumping back in the market

They have increased production before to run the little guy out of business

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2022, 02:47:50 PM

I guess Joe Biden did a great thing in bringing gas prices back down.  Thanks, Joe.  Good job, buddy.  It's all your doing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 02:50:11 PM

That is how a lot of folks view any issue, if it's bad, it's the other guy's fault, if it's good, it to our guy's credit.  It's boring, like strike outs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 16, 2022, 03:47:59 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2022, 02:47:50 PM

I guess Joe Biden did a great thing in bringing gas prices back down.  Thanks, Joe.  Good job, buddy.  It's all your doing.

well, he sure as hell didn't help the situation. not only did he completely fail to even attempt diplomacy, he flatly refused negotiation with Russia on the NATO topic. He couldn't even get the Saudis on the phone (he's been trying for 6 months prior to the war in Ukraine to get the Saudis to bring oil prices down, and they've refused his requests every time- which is his own stupid fault- as when he initially got into office it was Biden who refused to speak to MbS), and he decided to go ahead and ban Russian oil.

market had an overreaction and spiked as I'm sure speculation was that everyone would follow US lead and start banning Russian oil imports. Russia is the 2nd largest oil exporter in the world, and thankfully nobody else banned Russian oil imports except our bitch boy lapdogs the British- and that was more of a phase out that immediate ban- and market started to cool back down.

Presidents can have massive sway over oil prices. To suggest otherwise is just not only stupid, it's factually incorrect.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2022, 04:08:44 PM

That sure is a lot of bashing for a good outcome.  Interesting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 16, 2022, 04:19:15 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2022, 04:08:44 PM

That sure is a lot of bashing for a good outcome.  Interesting.

It's not bashing. It's well deserved criticism.

do you think Saudis would refuse to pick up Donald Trump's phone call and continually publicly give him two middle fingers in the ways in which they are doing to Biden? Yeah, don't think so.

It appears that we have gotten fortunate that the rest of the "free world" and major purchasers of Russian oil exports- EU, South Korea, Japan (these 3 account for 50%+ of Russian oil exports)- didn't follow US lead in imposing strict bans. US purchases just over 1% of Russian oil exports and UK another 1% - but UK are doing a phase out- they are still buying until the end of December.

Saudis could've cooled price immediately by announcing they are ramping production to levels never seen before. Biden was trying to get them to do this and announce it. They publicly told the entire world "yeah, we just told Biden to f**k off and refused his phone call, and now we're telling him to really f**k off by inviting Xi on an official state visit to the kingdom and are having high-level discussions with Xi to price our oil in yuan."

Say what you want about Trump, that never happens with him in that chair. Period.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2022, 04:30:24 PM

Honestly, if I was a foreign leader, I'd be eager to talk to Trump...because I could take advantage of him.  His wants are obvious.  He lacks depth.  
Yeah, I'd take advantage of him every chance I got.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 16, 2022, 05:10:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2022, 04:08:44 PM

That sure is a lot of bashing for a good outcome.  Interesting.

Good outcome :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 16, 2022, 05:11:36 PM

Wait, when did gas prices "come back down?"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 16, 2022, 05:18:52 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 16, 2022, 05:11:36 PM

Wait, when did gas prices "come back down?"

😂😂😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 05:27:08 PM

Oil prices are down from their peak, $130 to $95.  Gas prices won't come down as fast, but they won't go up much either, and should come down in a few days.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 16, 2022, 05:27:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 05:27:08 PM

Oil prices are down from their peak, $130 to $95.  Gas prices won't come down as fast, but they won't go up much either, and should come down in a few days.

So... my question stands, then.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 05:34:55 PM

AAA Gas Prices (https://gasprices.aaa.com/?state=GA)

They are down a bit over a penny according to this, so there.

Oil prices are down a lot.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 16, 2022, 05:39:59 PM

Not down a penny here.

So there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 05:44:14 PM

They aren't going up now either I bet.  And should trickle lower in a week or so.  They aren't going to drop the price of the last tanker that refueled them, except Costco does this from what I've seen.  They don't raise prices until the next tanker arrives (which is about every day).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 05:49:21 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/DzgDcvL.png)

The Pratt & Whitney J58-P4 engine that powered the SR-71 was a considerable innovation of their era; each one could produce 32,500 lbf (145 kN) of static thrust. The J58 was most efficient around Mach 3.2, the Blackbird’s typical cruising speed. A unique hybrid, the engine can be thought of as a turbojet inside a ramjet. Linda Sheffield Miller

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 16, 2022, 06:00:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 05:49:21 PM

The Pratt & Whitney J58-P4 engine that powered the SR-71 was a considerable innovation of their era; The J58 was most efficient around Mach 3.2, the Blackbird’s typical cruising speed.

Ya I had one in my old '64  Ford Fairlane 4 dr - it got me there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 16, 2022, 06:00:52 PM

There are many Americans who feel the gas price increase is intentional 

I dont feel its intentional but the current administration is intentionally not doing enough to reduce energy prices.

Instead they are trying to take advantage of the situation by trying to get legislation passed to favor their green agenda

The American voting public isnt fooled and this will make the midterm elections even more red

If Biden really wanted lower fuel prices he would be doing everything he could to promote increased oil production.  OPEC has no reason to increase its production as long as the USA stays with its current strategy.

Biden should be meeting with Oil Company leaders to facilitate increased production but isnt because he does not want this problem to go away

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2022, 06:03:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 05:27:08 PM

Oil prices are down from their peak, $130 to $95.  Gas prices won't come down as fast, but they won't go up much either, and should come down in a few days.

up the oil companies jack the price immediately when there's just a rumor

but, they don't lower prices even after something "real" happens

I hope they are reasonably taxed on their record profits

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2022, 06:04:52 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 16, 2022, 06:00:52 PM

There are many Americans who feel the gas price increase is intentional

I dont feel its intentional but the current administration is intentionally not doing enough to reduce energy prices.

Instead they are trying to take advantage of the situation by trying to get legislation passed to favor their green agenda

The American voting public isnt fooled and this will make the midterm elections even more red

If Biden really wanted lower fuel prices he would be doing everything he could to promote increased oil production.  OPEC has no reason to increase its production as long as the USA stays with its current strategy.

Biden should be meeting with Oil Company leaders to facilitate increased production but isnt because he does not want this problem to go away

the oil companies don't want the "problem" to go away either

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 16, 2022, 06:05:29 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 16, 2022, 06:00:52 PM

There are many Americans who feel the gas price increase is intentional

I dont feel its intentional

Listen those cocks in the board rooms shoot prices up like a rocket and they come down like a feather.It's not only deliberate they're High 5ing while it's done who ever is in office.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 16, 2022, 06:07:12 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 16, 2022, 06:03:22 PM

up the oil companies jack the price immediately when there's just a rumor

but, they don't lower prices even after something "real" happens

I hope they are reasonably taxed on their record profits

thats just not true

they reflect the market value

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 06:09:33 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 16, 2022, 06:03:22 PM

up the oil companies jack the price immediately when there's just a rumor

but, they don't lower prices even after something "real" happens

I hope they are reasonably taxed on their record profits

Nearly all the gas stations are locally owned and they determine the price they will charge.  Now that will reflect the replacement cost of the gas they are currently pumping of course, and the local markets.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 16, 2022, 06:23:19 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 16, 2022, 05:11:36 PM

Wait, when did gas prices "come back down?"
 

for real. I literally just paid $5.59 a gallon at a Marathon gas station. 

Prices haven't been rising the past few days over my way. Either staying stable or decreasing in some areas 10 cents a gal or so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 16, 2022, 06:24:41 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 16, 2022, 06:00:52 PM

There are many Americans who feel the gas price increase is intentional

I dont feel its intentional but the current administration is intentionally not doing enough to reduce energy prices.

Instead they are trying to take advantage of the situation by trying to get legislation passed to favor their green agenda

The American voting public isnt fooled and this will make the midterm elections even more red

If Biden really wanted lower fuel prices he would be doing everything he could to promote increased oil production.  OPEC has no reason to increase its production as long as the USA stays with its current strategy.

Biden should be meeting with Oil Company leaders to facilitate increased production but isnt because he does not want this problem to go away

he's too busy meeting with TikTokers. f**king clown show.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 16, 2022, 06:25:02 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 05:49:21 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/DzgDcvL.png)

The Pratt & Whitney J58-P4 engine that powered the SR-71 was a considerable innovation of their era; each one could produce 32,500 lbf (145 kN) of static thrust. The J58 was most efficient around Mach 3.2, the Blackbird’s typical cruising speed. A unique hybrid, the engine can be thought of as a turbojet inside a ramjet. Linda Sheffield Miller

coolest airplane ever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 16, 2022, 06:27:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 06:09:33 PM

Nearly all the gas stations are locally owned and they determine the price they will charge.  Now that will reflect the replacement cost of the gas they are currently pumping of course, and the local markets.

and most gas stations don't even make much on their gas. maybe a couple cents profit per gallon. they make all their money selling you shit. 

that's why gas stations like Wawa freaking kill it. that place makes so much money, it's insane. every single one all up and down 95 in Florida is packed 24/7, no matter where or what time of day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 16, 2022, 06:28:43 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 16, 2022, 06:25:02 PM

coolest airplane ever.

Oh yeah?  I prefer this one...


(https://i.imgur.com/WvW0CRA.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2022, 06:30:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 06:09:33 PM

Nearly all the gas stations are locally owned and they determine the price they will charge.  Now that will reflect the replacement cost of the gas they are currently pumping of course, and the local markets.

yup, there's always a good reason the prices can't come down as fast as they went up

it's called greed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 16, 2022, 06:30:42 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2022, 04:30:24 PM

Honestly, if I was a foreign leader, I'd be eager to talk to Trump...because I could take advantage of him.  His wants are obvious.  He lacks depth. 
Yeah, I'd take advantage of him every chance I got.

yeah, where is the evidence for that? oh that's right, it doesn't exist. Trump was able to get Saudis to comply in 2018 to pump baby pump to drive prices down and in 2020 to make record cuts to bring supply down and stabilize prices. President Shits-his-Diapers can't even get them on the phone and has them cozying up to Xi and China.

I'd say the opposite is actually true. Biden has already proven he's on the take. He didn't get the nickname the Senator from MBNA for nothing, you know. Oh and he's also an 80 year old with dementia that shits his own pants. So there's that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 16, 2022, 06:31:13 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 16, 2022, 06:28:43 PM

Oh yeah?  I prefer this one...


(https://i.imgur.com/WvW0CRA.png)

is that even real? looks like a 3d model.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2022, 06:31:31 PM

this from less than a month ago....

The Biden administration has once again put a pause on new leases and permits for federal oil and gas drilling after a judge blocked the administration from using a metric that estimates the societal cost of carbon emissions.

Earlier this month, US District Judge James Cain of the Western District of Louisiana issued an injunction preventing the Biden administration from using what's known as the "social cost of carbon" in decisions around oil and gas drilling on public land, or in rules governing fossil fuel emissions. The ruling has consequences for a range of Biden administration actions on climate change, but especially on the Interior Department's federal oil and gas leasing program.
In an appeal filed by government attorneys on Saturday night, the Biden administration argued Cain's injunction necessitated a pause on all projects where the government was using a social-cost-of-carbon analysis in its decision-making.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 06:32:45 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 16, 2022, 06:30:37 PM

yup, there's always a good reason the prices can't come down as fast as they went up

it's called greed

If you paid the equivalent of $4 for the last delivery, you pretty much need to charge that until a new delivery arrives, if the price is lower.

Greed is a factor, but governed by market forces unless there is collusion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2022, 06:33:28 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 16, 2022, 06:00:52 PM

Biden should be meeting with Oil Company leaders to facilitate increased production but isnt because he does not want this problem to go away

all Biden would need to do is open up the oil leases

with the price of oil, the oil companies would love to increase production
leases in North Dakota were shot down and the wells are not running

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 06:33:32 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 16, 2022, 06:31:13 PM

is that even real? looks like a 3d model.

It's from a Clint Eastwood movie that wasn't very good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 16, 2022, 06:34:21 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 16, 2022, 06:31:13 PM

is that even real? looks like a 3d model.

Oh you're a young 'un.


(https://i.imgur.com/I5ekWUD.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 16, 2022, 06:35:17 PM

not really a fan of Clint Eastwood. Haven't seen very many of his movies. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2022, 06:36:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 06:32:45 PM

If you paid the equivalent of $4 for the last delivery, you pretty much need to charge that until a new delivery arrives, if the price is lower.

Greed is a factor, but governed by market forces unless there is collusion.

I agree with this

I also agree that gas prices went up quickly, gasoline that was already in the tank at your local station that was refined a few days previous and from oil that was purchased a month or so ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 06:37:28 PM

It did, this is why I advise folks to go to Costco when prices jump, they don't play this game.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 16, 2022, 06:39:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 06:37:28 PM

It did, this is why I advise folks to go to Costco when prices jump, they don't play this game.

I have a Costco membership and I almost never go because it's almost always a zoo. So many people, it's insane. I'll pay more money not to have to deal with that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 06:43:13 PM

I find it takes a couple minutes or three, and we shop there after filling up anyway.  My car claims to need premium and it saves 40-50 cents per.

Why do we still have gallons?  Imagine being able to pay only a dollar or less for your gas.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2022, 10:28:05 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 16, 2022, 06:30:42 PM

yeah, where is the evidence for that? oh that's right, it doesn't exist. Trump was able to get Saudis to comply in 2018 to pump baby pump to drive prices down and in 2020 to make record cuts to bring supply down and stabilize prices. President Shits-his-Diapers can't even get them on the phone and has them cozying up to Xi and China.

I'd say the opposite is actually true. Biden has already proven he's on the take. He didn't get the nickname the Senator from MBNA for nothing, you know. Oh and he's also an 80 year old with dementia that shits his own pants. So there's that.

You're obsessed with Biden getting Saudi Arabia on the phone.
I guess if you say it enough times, it matters.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 16, 2022, 11:18:18 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 16, 2022, 06:33:28 PM

all Biden's handlers would need to do is open up the oil leases

with the price of oil, the oil companies would love to increase production
leases in North Dakota were shot down and the wells are not running

FIFY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 16, 2022, 11:19:19 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2022, 06:33:32 PM

It's from a Clint Eastwood movie that wasn't very good.

Clyde scrap the caddy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 16, 2022, 11:32:26 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 16, 2022, 11:19:19 PM

Clyde scrap the caddy

best scene in the movie


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anmAvGrgzgQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 16, 2022, 11:46:09 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2022, 10:28:05 PM

You're obsessed with Biden getting Saudi Arabia on the phone.
I guess if you say it enough times, it matters.

Obsessed? More like embarrassed. Shocked. Sad. And it absolutely does matter. 

Biden is trying hard to go down as one of the 3 or 4 worst Presidents ever. Don't think anyone will ever top W, but he's approaching Jimmy Carter level bad and fast. Guy is officially an unmitigated disaster.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 06:07:28 AM

Gas prices lead to tensions within Democratic Party | TheHill (https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/598539-gas-prices-lead-to-tensions-within-democratic-party)

Some of this is a bit "funny" to me, in a sense.  I guess it relates to how little folks in Congress understand about pricing, or how they play to "our" prejudices with pompous assertions.

Dunno, maybe both.  "We" elect them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 17, 2022, 07:16:33 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 16, 2022, 11:46:09 PM

Obsessed? More like embarrassed. Shocked. Sad. And it absolutely does matter.

Biden is trying hard to go down as one of the 3 or 4 worst Presidents ever. Don't think anyone will ever top W, but he's approaching Jimmy Carter level bad and fast. Guy is officially an unmitigated disaster.

Can't say being intricately tied to Saudi Arabia is a "good" thing. I know, the deal with the devil and whatnot. But technology exists that can make us less dependent on gas prices. Make it f'ing happen. Then you aren't begging a prince who took a bone saw to your people to give you a call.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 07:42:42 AM

Technology can exist, but practical employment soon enough may not.  You can't force some things to happen quicker by throwing money at it.  We probably could facilitate faster adoption of EVs for example, but only slightly, and not very fast.  It's still a tiny portion of the fleet, and will remain so for a long long time no matter how much we spend.  But maybe someone has an actual PLAN somewhere?

Or do we just semi-randomly throw money at it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 07:58:35 AM

The Progressives in Congress are in a bit of a bind here.  What can they say?  Sure, adopt EVs faster, that's facile, got it, but what else?  Suppress internal hydrocarbon production to fight CC?  And see prices in the short term continue to be high and cause pain to voters?

It's the economy stupid.  We'd all like clean air etc. but not so much when it hits the pocketbook hard.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 17, 2022, 08:28:38 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 16, 2022, 06:25:02 PM

coolest airplane ever.

Agreed. And the engineers at the Skunk works built that thing using slide rules instead of super computers. It is a testimony to the genius of Kelly Johnson and his team of engineers at Lockheed's Skunk Works. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2022, 08:38:55 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2022, 10:28:05 PM

You're obsessed with Biden getting Saudi Arabia on the phone.
I guess if you say it enough times, it matters.

I hope you are not serious.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 09:19:51 AM

New star image shows James Webb Space Telescope's optics are performing well : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2022/03/16/1086956505/james-webb-space-telescope-test-image-mirrors-aligned)

We could use some good news.

(https://i.imgur.com/rDZg5iJ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 17, 2022, 09:31:46 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 07:42:42 AM

Technology can exist, but practical employment soon enough may not.  You can't force some things to happen quicker by throwing money at it.  We probably could facilitate faster adoption of EVs for example, but only slightly, and not very fast.  It's still a tiny portion of the fleet, and will remain so for a long long time no matter how much we spend.  But maybe someone has an actual PLAN somewhere?

Or do we just semi-randomly throw money at it?

The absolute lack of imagination by our government continues to astound me. We have all sorts of tools to combat the need for gasoline - non gas using cars being one, but mass transit, the internet, etc. We are the biggest or one of the biggest markets in the world, and when faced with rising fuel costs, the only bullet we seem to have is begging. It's pathetic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 09:32:54 AM

What is a tool government could use here that would make a difference?  

The issue with gasoline is current and fairly urgent, some "plan" to do something years down the road might be OK, or not, but it's years down the road.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 17, 2022, 09:45:21 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 07:42:42 AM

Technology can exist, but practical employment soon enough may not.  You can't force some things to happen quicker by throwing money at it.  We probably could facilitate faster adoption of EVs for example, but only slightly, and not very fast.  It's still a tiny portion of the fleet, and will remain so for a long long time no matter how much we spend.  But maybe someone has an actual PLAN somewhere?

Or do we just semi-randomly throw money at it?

Its not a matter of forcing its a matter of holding it back

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 09:47:08 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 17, 2022, 09:31:46 AM

The absolute lack of imagination by our government continues to astound me. We have all sorts of tools to combat the need for gasoline - non gas using cars being one, but mass transit, the internet, etc. We are the biggest or one of the biggest markets in the world, and when faced with rising fuel costs, the only bullet we seem to have is begging. It's pathetic.

What are some of these tools we have at our disposal?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 17, 2022, 09:49:48 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 09:47:08 AM

What are some of these tools we have at our disposal? 

I literally just mentioned some.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 17, 2022, 09:51:28 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 09:32:54 AM

What is a tool government could use here that would make a difference? 

The issue with gasoline is current and fairly urgent, some "plan" to do something years down the road might be OK, or not, but it's years down the road.

Rinse and repeat every other year or so. I've heard this so many times in my life, I should get a tattoo. "There's nothing that can be done in the next few months, and surely once we weather this, it will never happen again."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 09:51:51 AM

Those are things you just mentioned.  I suppose you mean somehow magically expand mass transit and the Internet and sell more EVs, somehow?

OK, how?  What tools do we use to effect that?  How soon would it make a difference?  How much would it cost and what would be the benefit?

Or do we just wave our hands and some magic wand and all that appears out of the blue?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 09:54:18 AM

Governments are not good at spending money NOW for some benefit way down the road.  That is an inherent reality of life.

I don't think it changes because we wish it so.  Some of us try and deal with the real and the practicable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 17, 2022, 09:56:30 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 09:51:51 AM

Those are things you just mentioned.  I suppose you mean somehow magically expand mass transit and the Internet and sell more EVs, somehow?

OK, how?  What tools do we use to effect that?  How soon would it make a difference?  How much would it cost and what would be the benefit?

Or do we just wave our hands and some magic wand and all that appears out of the blue?

Well, I don't have a spreadsheet of the costs in front of me. Surely there would be some. The benefit is having elasticity in our energy needs, less reliance on foreign countries that have some dubious leadership practices, cleaner air, better cities, better access for for people in rural areas. Probably a million other things. I'm pretty sanguine about the costs - we spent trillions on the war in Afghanistan and received no benefit - I could imagine we could spend a lot less and get a heck of a lot more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 09:59:35 AM

Sure, that all sounds great, but it's obvious (to me) why it doesn't happen very fast, if at all.  Wishing it would happen doesn't make it so.

Presenting a viable PLAN to the populace might help, some.  Maybe not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 17, 2022, 10:08:48 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 09:59:35 AM

Sure, that all sounds great, but it's obvious (to me) why it doesn't happen very fast, if at all.  Wishing it would happen doesn't make it so.

Presenting a viable PLAN to the populace might help, some.  Maybe not.

Oh it is definitely obvious. Congress is functionally broken, the president has limited powers do accomplish much, and anything on a local level will get tied up in court indefinitely. Leadership can't even agree on a basic set of goals to accomplish, much less do anything to achieve them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 17, 2022, 10:11:21 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 17, 2022, 07:16:33 AM

Can't say being intricately tied to Saudi Arabia is a "good" thing. I know, the deal with the devil and whatnot. But technology exists that can make us less dependent on gas prices. Make it f'ing happen. Then you aren't begging a prince who took a bone saw to your people to give you a call.

it is what it is. US has been intricately tied to Saudi Arabia for over 70 years. And it isn't just about pricing their oil in US dollars and securing US status as reserve currency of the world post Nixon shock. It's also about the recycling of said petrodollar. Saudis hold over $1 trillion inside the US in assets (real estate, pieces of US companies, etc.,) and around $120 billion in US treasury bonds.

The "begging a prince who took a bone saw to your people to give you a call" line makes no sense. MbS didn't take a bone saw to "our people". Jamal Khashoggi WAS NOT an American. He was Saudi Arabian, born and raised with Saudi citizenship. He lived in the US for 10 minutes and worked for the Washington Post for 5, and suddenly he's American? He wasn't.

You need the Saudis on your side. President F**kface has been alienating them since his days on the campaign trail before he got elected, and once he took office he refused to speak with MbS. Now the guy is returning the favor. He did it to his own stupid self.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 17, 2022, 10:15:29 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 07:58:35 AM

The Progressives in Congress are in a bit of a bind here.  What can they say?  Sure, adopt EVs faster, that's facile, got it, but what else?  Suppress internal hydrocarbon production to fight CC?  And see prices in the short term continue to be high and cause pain to voters?

It's the economy stupid.  We'd all like clean air etc. but not so much when it hits the pocketbook hard.

yup. people tend to vote with their wallets. right or wrong, the inflation problem is going to wipe out the dems in the midterms. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 10:15:33 AM

I see little benefit in pining for something that isn't going to happen.  Yes, we could be more like Europe, some day, but it's not going to happen very fast if ever.

So, I don't waste time thinking about it.

I saw a thing about where MARTA got some money in the infrastructure bill but it seemed most was slated for upgrades to existing stations.  Not extending the lines, just prettier stations.  (They are pretty utilitarian looking.)

I think some goes to proposed bus rapid transit lines.  I saw three busses yesterday, not one had a single passenger inside.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 17, 2022, 10:16:26 AM

Quote

Jamal Khashoggi WAS NOT an American. He was Saudi Arabian, born and raised with Saudi citizenship. He lived in the US for 10 minutes and worked for the Washington Post for 5, and suddenly he's American? He wasn't. 

Hogwash. He had a degree from Indiana State and worked for the Post. He lived in America. American enough for me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 10:20:49 AM

Someone who lives a while in a country is not a citizen of said country, obviously.  He lived here a bit over a year, and was not naturalized.  I'm not sure it matters really.

I don't like SA myself.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 17, 2022, 10:21:07 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 09:32:54 AM

What is a tool government could use here that would make a difference? 

The issue with gasoline is current and fairly urgent, some "plan" to do something years down the road might be OK, or not, but it's years down the road.

yup. 

Ford, GM, and Chrysler DO NOT even have the ability to mass produce EV's yet. Even if you wanted everyone to adopt EV's a year from now, you couldn't. It's going to take years for these companies to build/retrofit plants. GM built only 25,000 EVs last year. 

Tesla is the only EV manufacturer here building 1 million EVs a year- and they've been building EVs for 13-14 years and they finally just hit that mark last year. 

16-17+ million vehicles are sold in US every year. There is a massive short fall in production capacity to meet the demand for cars. It's not as simple as "hey everyone- go out and buy an EV!". There just are't that many EVs being built every year. 

GM says they're aiming to build 400,000 EVs a year by 2025. That's 3 years away from now- and still way short of where it would need to be for everyone to start adopting EVs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 17, 2022, 10:23:13 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 10:20:49 AM

Someone who lives a while in a country is not a citizen of said country, obviously.  He lived here a bit over a year, and was not naturalized.  I'm not sure it matters really.

I don't like SA myself.

It matters a lot actually. If a ruler of another country kills an American citizen, well then... Houston, we have a problem. 

Like you said though, it's a matter of fact that he was not an American. 

I don't like SA much myself either, but realpolitik, and all. Need them. Is what it is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 17, 2022, 10:25:28 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 17, 2022, 10:16:26 AM

Hogwash. He had a degree from Indiana State and worked for the Post. He lived in America. American enough for me.

lots of foreigners come to America to get degrees. That does not make them American. Living in America for a short while does not make you American. The guy was Saudi Arabian, and a member of a prominent family in Saudi Arabia at that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 10:31:28 AM

I don't think it really would have made any difference had SA taken Biden's call.  They know what he wants.  They don't want to do it.

And it would be great to have enough EVs here to reduce our oil usage, but that day is way off in the future no matter how much we want it to be otherwise.  I'm fine with putting in more charging stations, if needed etc.  I just would like to see something better thought out than throwing money out there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 10:36:37 AM

A 'Petroyuan' Could Further Shake the Dollar's Dominance (coindesk.com) (https://www.coindesk.com/layer2/2022/03/16/a-petroyuan-could-further-shake-the-dollars-dominance/?fbclid=IwAR00pXm3gTeW61EQ_s_itgCjxpfDqboai_Jr3IzCgR3TspGMh84viF3YLgM)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 17, 2022, 10:42:29 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 10:31:28 AM

I don't think it really would have made any difference had SA taken Biden's call.  They know what he wants.  They don't want to do it.

And it would be great to have enough EVs here to reduce our oil usage, but that day is way off in the future no matter how much we want it to be otherwise.  I'm fine with putting in more charging stations, if needed etc.  I just would like to see something better thought out than throwing money out there.

It's a HUGE slap in the face and massive sign of disrespect, and it makes America look bad on the world stage. It's a big deal. And Saudis don't want to do it- because MbS hates Biden. That is not a secret. And why does he hate Biden? Because President Shits-his-Pants was trashing MbS and Saudi Arabia on the campaign trail and when he first got into office he refused to speak with MbS. Now MbS is returning the favor. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 17, 2022, 10:43:56 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 10:36:37 AM

A 'Petroyuan' Could Further Shake the Dollar's Dominance (coindesk.com) (https://www.coindesk.com/layer2/2022/03/16/a-petroyuan-could-further-shake-the-dollars-dominance/?fbclid=IwAR00pXm3gTeW61EQ_s_itgCjxpfDqboai_Jr3IzCgR3TspGMh84viF3YLgM)

thanks sanctions! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 10:52:10 AM

I'm trying to semi-calculate when EVs will reduce our oil dependency, at all, e.g., when we would hit "peak oil usage" in the US.  It would normally grow of course with the economy, the gradual use of EVs at some point will start to diminish that.  It's years off of course no matter what we do shorter term.

Maybe by 2030 the number of EVs will balance the growth in transportation needs, barring recession.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 17, 2022, 10:54:06 AM

New York Times finally admitting the Hunter Biden laptop is authentic and not "Russian disinformation" - after year plus of stories from that rag which tried to explain away/deny it. And it was obvious from the start the emails/laptop was real, as Hunter Biden, his father, nor his fathers campaign ever denied it. Not once.

Politco reporter Ben Schreckinger also wrote a book on the Biden's in which he authenticated the emails in the laptop using signatures inside the metadata.

Twitter/FB trying to censor New York Post reporting on it at the time was a disgrace, as was the letter from a bunch of former "intelligence officials" who claimed (without providing a shred of evidence) the laptop/emails had "all the hallmarks of classic Russian disinformation!"

What a joke.

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-nyt-now-admits-the-biden-laptop?s=w
https://nypost.com/2022/03/17/the-times-finally-admits-hunter-bidens-laptop-is-real/
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/us/politics/hunter-biden-tax-bill-investigation.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 17, 2022, 10:58:49 AM

said it then and I'll say it again....what's more likely? (a) Those pesky Russians set up an elaborate set-up operation and faked a laptop with fake emails! OR...... (b) a f**king CRACKHEAD/alcoholic smoked crack, drank drank, got high and drunk, dropped off a laptop on a binge and completely forgot about it.

Yeah, I'll go with option B.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 17, 2022, 11:54:18 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 17, 2022, 10:25:28 AM

lots of foreigners come to America to get degrees. That does not make them American. Living in America for a short while does not make you American. The guy was Saudi Arabian, and a member of a prominent family in Saudi Arabia at that.

These are stories we tell ourselves to make due for the fact that we are so dependent on Saudi Arabia that we roll over and play dead when they hack up our journalists. Which isn't to say rolling over and playing dead isn't the wisest move, but you can be danged sure it is spineless. In any event, there have been ten thousand reasons to move away from dependence on Saudi Arabia, this being just the messiest and most disrespectful to us.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 17, 2022, 12:58:49 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 17, 2022, 09:56:30 AM

Well, I don't have a spreadsheet of the costs in front of me. Surely there would be some. The benefit is having elasticity in our energy needs, less reliance on foreign countries that have some dubious leadership practices, cleaner air, better cities, better access for for people in rural areas. Probably a million other things. I'm pretty sanguine about the costs - we spent trillions on the war in Afghanistan and received no benefit - I could imagine we could spend a lot less and get a heck of a lot more.

The current electric grid in this country barely supports what we now have using electricity. California already has rolling brown outs during the summer months as they cannot keep the power on. Now you want to suddenly add millions of cars to that grid. Good luck with that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 17, 2022, 01:11:20 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 17, 2022, 11:54:18 AM

These are stories we tell ourselves to make due for the fact that we are so dependent on Saudi Arabia that we roll over and play dead when they hack up our journalists. Which isn't to say rolling over and playing dead isn't the wisest move, but you can be danged sure it is spineless. In any event, there have been ten thousand reasons to move away from dependence on Saudi Arabia, this being just the messiest and most disrespectful to us.

One thing we could do is open up drilling here in America. But President Brain Damage and the left wing is doing everything in their power to make that impossible. And as has been stated, we are tied to gasoline and diesel for the foreseeable future. 

So the immediate question is, what are we as a nation, going to do to keep the gasoline flowing without bankrupting the citizens in the process?

As you know, the price of gas/diesel affects everything in our lives. It is now the time of year for farmers to be getting into the fields to plant crops for this years harvest. I don't know how it is wherever you live, but here those farmers tractors burn diesel fuel and use probably 100 gallons a day. As the price of diesel has doubled this year, it may cause some farmers to reconsider planting in some fields as their expected ROI will not cover their increase costs. This could translate into food shortages this fall and huge price spikes in farming commodities. 

How many people will begin to go hungry in this country, let alone those that depend upon the US for their food supplies? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 17, 2022, 01:13:46 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 17, 2022, 11:54:18 AM

These are stories we tell ourselves to make due for the fact that we are so dependent on Saudi Arabia that we roll over and play dead when they hack up our journalists. Which isn't to say rolling over and playing dead isn't the wisest move, but you can be danged sure it is spineless. In any event, there have been ten thousand reasons to move away from dependence on Saudi Arabia, this being just the messiest and most disrespectful to us.

realpolitik. google it. Until the world isn't running on oil and as long as the US dollar is tied to oil trade- we need them. Period.

Saudi Arabia didn't hack up our journalists. Give me a f**king break with that already. Just STOP. Because it's verifiably not true and factually incorrect. He wasn't one of us. He wasn't "ours". The guy worked for the Washington Post for all of about 5 minutes. He was NOT an American. He was a SAUDI through and through. And the United States hasn't given a shit for 7 plus DECADES what the Saudis do to their own people. We really don't care and we really never have. For f**k sake the Saudis just publicly beheaded 81 people a few days ago and the very next day you had a high level US diplomat standing next to the Saudi general of the military police responsible for that mass murder in a photo op praising him for his efforts for spreading religious tolerance and trying to further democracy or whatever the hell the bullshit the diplomat from the Biden administration was spouting.

And you're really going to sit there and pretend the US cares about journalists at all when they have been trying to crush and DESTROY Julian Assange for almost a decade- all for the crime of publishing and exposing war crimes of the US government? It was even leaked/reported that the CIA floated plots to have Assange assassinated but couldn't figure out how to do it without creating an international catastrophe. Give me a break. This is laughable. Beyond laughable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 17, 2022, 01:22:18 PM

The dems dont want price of gas to go down

https://www.thebharatexpressnews.com/house-dems-block-energy-independence-bill-gop-energy-expert-slams-unacceptable-decision/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 17, 2022, 01:46:59 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 17, 2022, 01:13:46 PM

realpolitik. google it. Until the world isn't running on oil and as long as the US dollar is tied to oil trade- we need them. Period.

Saudi Arabia didn't hack up our journalists. Give me a f**king break with that already. Just STOP. Because it's verifiably not true and factually incorrect. He wasn't one of us. He wasn't "ours". The guy worked for the Washington Post for all of about 5 minutes. He was NOT an American. He was a SAUDI through and through. And the United States hasn't given a shit for 7 plus DECADES what the Saudis do to their own people. We really don't care and we really never have. For f**k sake the Saudis just publicly beheaded 81 people a few days ago and the very next day you had a high level US diplomat standing next to the Saudi general of the military police responsible for that mass murder in a photo op praising him for his efforts for spreading religious tolerance and trying to further democracy or whatever the hell the bullshit the diplomat from the Biden administration was spouting.

Again, these are fairy tales we have to tell ourselves because actually doing something about it is inconvenient. That's it. That's why we engage in these goofy stories about the guy who lived and worked in America and who was a big critic of Saudi Arabia actually had no ties to America. It's a fantasy. It's sick! 

But that is where we find ourselves, because making moves to make us less dependent on foreign oil is hard, and people like cheap gas, and we built nearly everything in this country on the promise of cheap gas, and so when gas fluctuates, suddenly we have to beg and cry like Trump did and we want Biden to do to please help make the gas cheaper. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 17, 2022, 01:47:33 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 17, 2022, 01:11:20 PM

One thing we could do is open up drilling here in America. But President Brain Damage and the left wing is doing everything in their power to make that impossible. And as has been stated, we are tied to gasoline and diesel for the foreseeable future.

So the immediate question is, what are we as a nation, going to do to keep the gasoline flowing without bankrupting the citizens in the process?

As you know, the price of gas/diesel affects everything in our lives. It is now the time of year for farmers to be getting into the fields to plant crops for this years harvest. I don't know how it is wherever you live, but here those farmers tractors burn diesel fuel and use probably 100 gallons a day. As the price of diesel has doubled this year, it may cause some farmers to reconsider planting in some fields as their expected ROI will not cover their increase costs. This could translate into food shortages this fall and huge price spikes in farming commodities.

How many people will begin to go hungry in this country, let alone those that depend upon the US for their food supplies?

That's bad! We should do something about that!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2022, 01:49:18 PM

How long would an electric combine work? 

17 minutes?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 17, 2022, 01:57:46 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2022, 01:49:18 PM

How long would an electric combine work?

17 minutes?

The good thing about farms is they don't get up and move that much. You could probably make a plug in combine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 17, 2022, 01:58:45 PM

Wireless electricity.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on March 17, 2022, 02:13:37 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 16, 2022, 05:10:26 PM

Good outcome :57:

Real good outcome, I paid $80 to fill my tank today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 02:19:33 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/r4VhH1V.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 17, 2022, 02:29:35 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 17, 2022, 10:58:49 AM

said it then and I'll say it again....what's more likely? (a) Those pesky Russians set up an elaborate set-up operation and faked a laptop with fake emails! OR...... (b) a f**king CRACKHEAD/alcoholic smoked crack, drank drank, got high and drunk, dropped off a laptop on a binge and completely forgot about it.

Yeah, I'll go with option B.

Heh, I remember are one point you told us you had left an iPad with a sex video at the shop and just left it there because you didn’t feel like getting it. Good times. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 02:46:23 PM

Problems can have short term approaches which could mitigate the problem, and longer term (years or decades) solutions.  The head of Oxy Pete said they couldn't produce more right now because of labor and material shortages.  There are a lot of open leases.  And production is recovering.  This is the shorter term approach.

I think Biden put his foot in it pandering to the Greens and then issued some EOs which I THINK had relatively little to do with production but sounded good (pandering).  Thus, he created the image he dampened production, because he meant to create that image. Maybe all that did have some slight impact.  I suspect it was nearly all optics, nor reality, and other factors are at play here.

I see folks on FB saying we should open the KXL pipeline to use AMERICAN oil, which says something about where some folks are these days.

I do think it's absurd to ask SA et al. to produce more while not at least reversing the optics of what was done internally, but he can't say that.

Now, longer term, EVs will reduce how much oil we need, but it really is long term.  I'm sure oil companies are looking at that trend and thinking about what they want to be in 2040.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 17, 2022, 02:55:41 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 02:46:23 PM

Problems can have short term approaches which could mitigate the problem, and longer term (years or decades) solutions.  The head of Oxy Pete said they couldn't produce more right now because of labor and material shortages.  There are a lot of open leases.  And production is recovering.  This is the shorter term approach.

I think Biden put his foot in it pandering to the Greens and then issued some EOs which I THINK had relatively little to do with production but sounded good (pandering).  Thus, he created the image he dampened production, because he meant to create that image. Maybe all that did have some slight impact.  I suspect it was nearly all optics, nor reality, and other factors are at play here.

I see folks on FB saying we should open the KXL pipeline to use AMERICAN oil, which says something about where some folks are these days.

I do think it's absurd to ask SA et al. to produce more while not at least reversing the optics of what was done internally, but he can't say that.

Now, longer term, EVs will reduce how much oil we need, but it really is long term.  I'm sure oil companies are looking at that trend and thinking about what they want to be in 2040.

Cincy, this is too much levelheaded policy discussion. I’m gonna need you to say something emotional and short sighted about how some politician is clearly a moron for not pushing for some fantasy to make people feel good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 02:56:42 PM

Some politician is clearly a moron.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 02:59:27 PM

NASA Prepares to Roll SLS Megarocket to Launch Pad (gizmodo.com) (https://gizmodo.com/nasa-preparing-to-roll-out-its-sls-megarocket-later-thi-1848654409)

We are rather slowly getting back into space. This news seems to get dropped for obvious reasons.

 For the Artemis 1 mission, an uncrewed Orion capsule will travel to an orbit 40,000 miles beyond the Moon and return to Earth, without reaching the lunar surface. Artemis 2, scheduled for May 2024, will be a repeat, except it will carry a human crew. Artemis 3, which could happen as early as 2025, is the big prize: That’s when two NASA astronauts—a man and a woman—will walk on the Moon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 03:18:42 PM

Oil surges 7% amid warnings of Russian supply shortages | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/oil-futures-open-higher-iea-supply-warning-2022-03-17/?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A Trending)

HOUSTON, March 17 - Oil prices climbed about 7% on Thursday, continuing a series of wild daily swings, as the market rebounded from several days of losses on renewed focus on supply shortages in coming weeks due to sanctions on Russia.
Additional reporting by Ahmad Ghaddar in London, Muyu Xu in Beijing; editing by Jason Neely, Marguerita Choy, David Gregorio and Tim Ahmann

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 17, 2022, 03:38:21 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 02:56:42 PM

Some politician is clearly a moron.

Not emotional enough, but we’ll take what we can get with a chemist

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 17, 2022, 05:40:33 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 17, 2022, 02:29:35 PM

Heh, I remember are one point you told us you had left an iPad with a sex video at the shop and just left it there because you didn’t feel like getting it. Good times.

I don't remember that ,regale for us I'd like to hear the excuse for the seedy/shameful content :D

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 17, 2022, 05:45:45 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 02:56:42 PM

Some politician is clearly a moron.

some. or all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 17, 2022, 05:50:33 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 02:59:27 PM

NASA Prepares to Roll SLS Megarocket to Launch Pad (gizmodo.com) (https://gizmodo.com/nasa-preparing-to-roll-out-its-sls-megarocket-later-thi-1848654409)

We are rather slowly getting back into space. This news seems to get dropped for obvious reasons.

For the Artemis 1 mission, an uncrewed Orion capsule will travel to an orbit 40,000 miles beyond the Moon and return to Earth, without reaching the lunar surface. Artemis 2, scheduled for May 2024, will be a repeat, except it will carry a human crew. Artemis 3, which could happen as early as 2025, is the big prize: That’s when two NASA astronauts—a man and a woman—will walk on the Moon.

nice to see. NASA's budget is pretty god damn small in comparison to DoD budget. I'd like to see less $$$ going to the ever increasing DoD budget and more to the NASA budget.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 05:59:40 PM

SFBadger's wife is running for Congress.  I've met her, and him, I don't think either is a moron.  I hope she wins.  I donated.

I got to know a former Marine from my son's unit, decorated, had a law degree from Ohio State, was thinking about politics and looked in to it, told me it wasn't for him, the process was just too ... involved, I guess.  It's not about merit, the few with merit who persevere have my gratitude.

We are not getting the best.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 17, 2022, 06:02:46 PM

That isn't Pelosi's old seat I hope,never been but other have stated she left a mess

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 17, 2022, 06:08:40 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 02:59:27 PM

NASA Prepares to Roll SLS Megarocket to Launch Pad (gizmodo.com) (https://gizmodo.com/nasa-preparing-to-roll-out-its-sls-megarocket-later-thi-1848654409)

We are rather slowly getting back into space. This news seems to get dropped for obvious reasons.

For the Artemis 1 mission, an uncrewed Orion capsule will travel to an orbit 40,000 miles beyond the Moon and return to Earth, without reaching the lunar surface. Artemis 2, scheduled for May 2024, will be a repeat, except it will carry a human crew. Artemis 3, which could happen as early as 2025, is the big prize: That’s when two NASA astronauts—a man and a woman—will walk on the Moon.

Just make sure the man does the driving

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 06:11:48 PM

Strangely enough, another Marine from my son's unit is in Congress now, from Arizona.  He's a Harvard grad, was a Harvard grad as an E3 in Iraq, cowrote a book about their experiences.  It's a hard read, and not very complimentary of some of the officers.



(https://i.imgur.com/yybUHdt.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 17, 2022, 06:30:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 05:59:40 PM

SFBadger's wife is running for Congress.  I've met her, and him, I don't think either is a moron.  I hope she wins.  I donated.

I got to know a former Marine from my son's unit, decorated, had a law degree from Ohio State, was thinking about politics and looked in to it, told me it wasn't for him, the process was just too ... involved, I guess.  It's not about merit, the few with merit who persevere have my gratitude.

We are not getting the best.

you can say that again. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 06:41:31 PM

I'm sure there are some in Congress with ethics and integrity and intelligence.  I'm also sure if they stay very long, they seem to lose all three.  Or it's that those who rise to powerful positions there are scum.  I got to know out Cincy rep a bit, he was a nice guy, I suspect he's honest, he's not very bright, at all.  He votes straight Republican on every issue.

I suspect most intelligent and honest people are turned off by politics.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 17, 2022, 06:45:52 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 17, 2022, 01:46:59 PM

Again, these are fairy tales we have to tell ourselves because actually doing something about it is inconvenient. That's it. That's why we engage in these goofy stories about the guy who lived and worked in America and who was a big critic of Saudi Arabia actually had no ties to America. It's a fantasy. It's sick!

But that is where we find ourselves, because making moves to make us less dependent on foreign oil is hard, and people like cheap gas, and we built nearly everything in this country on the promise of cheap gas, and so when gas fluctuates, suddenly we have to beg and cry like Trump did and we want Biden to do to please help make the gas cheaper.

Yeah, not really. The reality is, we need them so long as this is the current world order- where the whole world economy is run on and tied to oil, as is US dollar. When and until that changes, get back to me. Then we can ditch them. And the guy lived in America for like not even a year. That does not make him an American. Stop it. And he was a Saudi from an extremely prominent Saudi family that had close ties to the royal family. The guys grandfather was the personal physician of the founder and first king of the Saudi Arabian kingdom. His fathers brother- his uncle- Adnan Khashoggi was a billionaire arms dealer and purported to be the richest person in Saudi Arabia (outside the royals a'course). His first cousin was the Egyptian-Saudi billionaire Dodi Fayed who was Princess Diana's boyfriend who tragically died in a car accident with her back in the day. Yes, that Princess Diana. He's not some run of the mill journalist. He was an elite of the elite of his country.

He was a Saudi national. Not an American. I don't much care that he went to college here. It means nothing. Less than nothing. Wealthy foreigners often go to other countries for their college studies. Osama Bin Laden lived in the UK for 3-4 years when he went to Oxford. Is he British? Yeah, no. Speaking of Bin Laden, the guy was at one time very close personal friends with Osama Bin Laden. Which would make sense, they are both from billionaire Saudi families with close ties to the royal family.

Anywhoo...the guy moved to America in June 2017. And he went to Turkey to try to divorce his current SAUDI wife so he could marry a Turkish one. And the reason why he moved to America is because he was pissed off that he was getting banned/censored from writing and media appearances in the kingdom for criticizing Donald Trump's policy in Middle East. True story. He wasn't banned because he was critical of MbS or the devastation of Yemen, or the kingdoms support and exportation of Wahhabism around the Muslim world. It was all because in December of 2016 he mildly criticized…....Donald Trump. And roughly 6 months later, he moved to the US.

And Trump never had to beg the Saudis for anything. They liked and respected the guy. In 2018 he told them you are't getting more fat arms deals and we aren't going to help you in Yemen if you don't do what I tell you and pump oil and drive the price down. In 2020 he told them if they didn't end the price war with Russia and cut back on production his hands would be tied and he'd be forced to pull all US military personnel out of the kingdom. Needless to say they complied both times.

You want to talk about beg? It was really pathetic seeing Biden going hat in hand to beg Venezuela for oil after US has been desperately trying to overthrow Maduro and his predecessor Hugo Chavez for- oh years- and have been pretending for the last few years that some shitstain sock puppet named Juan Guaido is the "real president" of Venezuela.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 17, 2022, 06:51:03 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 17, 2022, 06:02:46 PM

That isn't Pelosi's old seat I hope,never been but other have stated she left a mess

that old hag is moving to Florida. Just bought a $25 million house in Jupiter on the beach. Supposedly she's moving there when she steps down and retires. Guess taxes are too high for her to stay in California. Freaking bitch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 17, 2022, 06:52:41 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 17, 2022, 06:41:31 PM

I'm sure there are some in Congress with ethics and integrity and intelligence.  I'm also sure if they stay very long, they seem to lose all three.  Or it's that those who rise to powerful positions there are scum.  I got to know out Cincy rep a bit, he was a nice guy, I suspect he's honest, he's not very bright, at all.  He votes straight Republican on every issue.

I suspect most intelligent and honest people are turned off by politics.

I think you are 100% on the money. US is not getting the brightest and best for their politicians. Has not been getting that for awhile. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 17, 2022, 06:57:16 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 17, 2022, 02:29:35 PM

Heh, I remember are one point you told us you had left an iPad with a sex video at the shop and just left it there because you didn’t feel like getting it. Good times.

true story. and I'm not even a crackhead. now imagine a crackhead......they probably forget shit all the time. cocaine is a hell of a drug.

It was thrown on hard tile floor a few times, stomped on, and smashed into bits and then picked up thrown straight through a wall, so doubt it even turned out. My guess the dude just scrapped it for what parts he could.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 17, 2022, 07:15:33 PM

Wine is delicious.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 17, 2022, 07:51:48 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 17, 2022, 06:45:52 PM

Yeah, not really. The reality is, we need them so long as this is the current world order- where the whole world economy is run on and tied to oil, as is US dollar. When and until that changes, get back to me. Then we can ditch them. And the guy lived in America for like not even a year. That does not make him an American. Stop it. And he was a Saudi from an extremely prominent Saudi family that had close ties to the royal family. The guys grandfather was the personal physician of the founder and first king of the Saudi Arabian kingdom. His fathers brother- his uncle- Adnan Khashoggi was a billionaire arms dealer and purported to be the richest person in Saudi Arabia (outside the royals a'course). His first cousin was the Egyptian-Saudi billionaire Dodi Fayed who was Princess Diana's boyfriend who tragically died in a car accident with her back in the day. Yes, that Princess Diana. He's not some run of the mill journalist. He was an elite of the elite of his country.

He was a Saudi national. Not an American. I don't much care that he went to college here. It means nothing. Less than nothing. Wealthy foreigners often go to other countries for their college studies. Osama Bin Laden lived in the UK for 3-4 years when he went to Oxford. Is he British? Yeah, no. Speaking of Bin Laden, the guy was at one time very close personal friends with Osama Bin Laden. Which would make sense, they are both from billionaire Saudi families with close ties to the royal family.

Anywhoo...the guy moved to America in June 2017. And he went to Turkey to try to divorce his current SAUDI wife so he could marry a Turkish one. And the reason why he moved to America is because he was pissed off that he was getting banned/censored from writing and media appearances in the kingdom for criticizing Donald Trump's policy in Middle East. True story. He wasn't banned because he was critical of MbS or the devastation of Yemen, or the kingdoms support and exportation of Wahhabism around the Muslim world. It was all because in December of 2016 he mildly criticized…....Donald Trump. And roughly 6 months later, he moved to the US.

And Trump never had to beg the Saudis for anything. They liked and respected the guy. In 2018 he told them you are't getting more fat arms deals and we aren't going to help you in Yemen if you don't do what I tell you and pump oil and drive the price down. In 2020 he told them if they didn't end the price war with Russia and cut back on production his hands would be tied and he'd be forced to pull all US military personnel out of the kingdom. Needless to say they complied both times.

You want to talk about beg? It was really pathetic seeing Biden going hat in hand to beg Venezuela for oil after US has been desperately trying to overthrow Maduro and his predecessor Hugo Chavez for- oh years- and have been pretending for the last few years that some shitstain sock puppet named Juan Guaido is the "real president" of Venezuela.

LOL the more words you type the sadder it is. He was educated in an American university, and lived in America, and worked in American journalism. Writing tons and tons to try and delude yourself away from the truth is what it is. Excuses, excuses, excuses. As you said, if Saudi Arabia had assassinated an American citizen proper, well, that's tough to ignore. No doubt, we would try to ignore it as we tried to ignore this, but at the end if the day, there is no getting around the obvious. It's just trying to put lipstick on a hog. This was an abomination and a direct assault on us, and we had to just take it. President Trump was made to look pathetic.

But as you say, that's where we are. Which is why we should be advocating getting out of that position instead of whining every other year about how people won't sell us gas on the cheap whenever we want it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 17, 2022, 08:08:16 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 17, 2022, 07:15:33 PM

Wine is delicious.

Facts. I'm enjoying some on my back patio with basketball on. The rare Ohio 70 degree March day

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 17, 2022, 08:09:07 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 17, 2022, 08:08:16 PM

Facts. I'm enjoying some on my back patio with basketball on. The rare Ohio 70 degree March day

I'm in Paso Robles enjoying it at the source 😁

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 17, 2022, 08:10:51 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 17, 2022, 08:09:07 PM

I'm in Paso Robles enjoying it at the source 😁

I've never heard of Paso Robles but I can imagine a lot of people walking on grapes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 17, 2022, 09:51:27 PM

Wine is fine, but whiskey's quicker. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 17, 2022, 10:02:54 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 17, 2022, 07:51:48 PM

LOL the more words you type the sadder it is. He was educated in an American university, and lived in America, and worked in American journalism. Writing tons and tons to try and delude yourself away from the truth is what it is. Excuses, excuses, excuses. As you said, if Saudi Arabia had assassinated an American citizen proper, well, that's tough to ignore. No doubt, we would try to ignore it as we tried to ignore this, but at the end if the day, there is no getting around the obvious. It's just trying to put lipstick on a hog. This was an abomination and a direct assault on us, and we had to just take it. President Trump was made to look pathetic.

But as you say, that's where we are. Which is why we should be advocating getting out of that position instead of whining every other year about how people won't sell us gas on the cheap whenever we want it.

Him being educated in an American university when he was in his 20s, again, means absolutely nothing. Wealthy foreign nationals go to universities outside their home country all of the time. That does not mean anything nor make them citizens of the countries they attended university in. Again- was Osama Bin Laden a UK citizen because he studied at Oxford? No. Dude lived in America for a whopping year of his 59 year long life. Totally makes him an American. Not.

Saudis did a gruesome, disgusting thing to one of their own citizens. No doubt it was disgusting. But they routinely do things like this and much worse to their own citizens. They publicly beheaded and crucified a 17 year old kid all for the crime of speaking out against the dictatorship and attending a protest. They just publicly slaughtered 81 people a couple days ago and not a peep. 

It was not a direct attack or assault on us. That is beyond laughable to even say that. It would be a direct assault on US if say, they kidnapped and slaughtered say Jake Tapper or any AMERICAN journalist. But of course, they would never do this. Because they only go after their own. They aren't going to go after Americans. Would never happen. They just don't do that. They brutalize and murder their own just for breakfast and 99.999999% of the time most here don't seem to give a rats ass. Now everyone pretends to be all shocked they did this to one of their own citizens and pretends to give a shit just because the guy lived in America for a year and worked at the Washington Post for 6 months. Puhhhleeeease.

Trump wasn't made to look like anything. Trump kept things transactional. He didn't purposely try to piss off and alienate the leader of the Sauids. In fact, it was quite the opposite. Trump bragged about providing political cover for MbS and shielding him from blowback in US. Trump literally did not even care. Why? Because Jamal Khoshoggi wasn't an American. He was a Saudi. Trump correctly calculated- not our business- what they do to their own people- is their business. Saudis have been doing this kind of shit forever to their own people. Why pretend to care now? 

Has nothing to do about selling us gas. They don't sell us much gas. Or crude oil. However, they are the worlds largest exporter of oil, the worlds low cost-high volume producer of oil, are the most powerful/influential member with most control of OPEC (which produces over 40% of worlds oil, and produces over 60% of worlds oil exports), and have exclusively denominated their oil in US dollars- and then recycle said profits from their oil trade into US real estate, businesses, and US treasuries. And because of this they can wield massive influence over the price of oil, inflation, and strength of the US dollar. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 17, 2022, 10:31:23 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 17, 2022, 06:51:03 PM

that old hag is moving to Florida. Just bought a $25 million house in Jupiter on the beach. Supposedly she's moving there when she steps down and retires. Guess taxes are too high for her to stay in California. Freaking bitch.

This was apparently made up. Well, not the last part, that's a matter of opinion. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2022, 07:37:46 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 17, 2022, 08:09:07 PM

I'm in Paso Robles enjoying it at the source 😁

Terry Hoague has a winery there.  He was an AA at UGA and posted a 3.93 GPA in genetics during his time as a student, played for the Eagles in the League for a while.  Really nice guy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 18, 2022, 08:19:38 AM

Quote

Trump bragged about providing political cover for MbS and shielding him from blowback in US. Trump literally did not even care.

I think it was the most pathetic we have ever looked on a worldwide stage. The Saudis just sawed up an American journalist, and our president just had to take it. If there was ever a sign of the west's decline, that was it. Like I said, we have to give ourselves therapy talks about how he wasn't really, truly American so that we don't feel so bad about it and can move past. They weren't laughing at us, they were laughing with us. Boo-urns!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2022, 08:28:45 AM

I'm not sure what the US could do about Kashoggi beyond some harsh language.  Fortunately, we have reduced our dependence on SA oil by a good bit, though obviously their impact on global production remains enormous.  In "normal times", they would be considered an enemy, but the enemy of my enemy ...

They have a larger air force than any European country except Russia.  They seem to have a working relationship with Israel for the above reason.

whether the guy is called an "American" or not seems irrelevant to me, he was not a citizen, he did work here for a while and was educated here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2022, 08:30:32 AM

We still plan on the cruise out of Copenhagen short of something very dire happening.

They are supposed to do air travel arrangements for us, I probably should call them.  We're arriving two days before and staying two after in Copenhagen.  Oddly enough that is the only latitude they offer.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 18, 2022, 08:34:20 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 17, 2022, 06:51:03 PM

that old hag is moving to Florida. Just bought a $25 million house in Jupiter on the beach. Supposedly she's moving there when she steps down and retires. Guess taxes are too high for her to stay in California. Freaking bitch.

I read this. $25 Mil.

Pays to be the speaker.

I bet her house will have a wall around it too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 18, 2022, 08:38:59 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 18, 2022, 08:28:45 AM

I'm not sure what the US could do about Kashoggi beyond some harsh language.  Fortunately, we have reduced our dependence on SA oil by a good bit, though obviously their impact on global production remains enormous.  In "normal times", they would be considered an enemy, but the enemy of my enemy ...

They have a larger air force than any European country except Russia.  They seem to have a working relationship with Israel for the above reason.

whether the guy is called an "American" or not seems irrelevant to me, he was not a citizen, he did work here for a while and was educated here.

Draw a red line in the sand. Then keep moving it. Works great.



By the way.. that guy is/was as American as I am Mexican.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2022, 08:40:06 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 17, 2022, 08:10:51 PM

I've never heard of Paso Robles but I can imagine a lot of people walking on grapes

Paso has been a reputable location for some time now, it's quite a large area with a lot of microclimates.  Prices used to be quite appealing but as it has become better known that is starting to ebb of course, like Sonoma did years ago.  

I'm still buying a lot of Kirkland private label stuff, I'd say 95% is superb for the money, and they are coming out with a wide range of types, from all sorts of countries.  The next time I see a Napa variant with a location designated I'm going to buy them out.  I get 3-4 bottles in the past and go back to get more and it's gone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2022, 08:42:16 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 18, 2022, 08:38:59 AM

Draw a red line in the sand. Then keep moving it. Works great.

By the way.. that guy is/was as American as I am Mexican.

I just think the debate about whether he's an American or not is silly, he spent some time here, he wasn't a citizen.  I spent time in France, less than he did, I speak a bit of the language, I could apply for a French EU passport, which would make me quasi-French I suppose.

But often when some country does something heinous, about all we can do is harsh language.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 18, 2022, 08:44:15 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 18, 2022, 08:34:20 AM

I read this. $25 Mil.

Pays to be the speaker.

I bet her house will have a wall around it too.

Where’d you read that?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 18, 2022, 08:53:28 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 18, 2022, 08:38:59 AM

Draw a red line in the sand. Then keep moving it. Works great.



By the way.. that guy is/was as American as I am Mexican.

I think the proper comparison is he was as American as you are a Floridian

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 18, 2022, 09:04:17 AM

I find myself with a few thoughts about the Saudi Arabia angle. On the one hand, if we're just caught up on the one very bad act (luring someone from American soil into an embassy, chopping them to pieces), that seems like a forest/trees moment. Politics are a weird world, and someone somewhere is doing something gross we don't like, yet we still need them for things. 

On the other hand, as some of our more pro Saudi voices on the board have pointed out, these people are in many ways monsters. And we're basically saying, if you don't pal around with monsters for money, you're an unfit leader of the free world (as compared to being an enthusiastic pal). That seems at least worth examining. 

There's also some of the confirmation bias angle, that we often start by not liking someone, and then see actions through that lens. Which is to say, if the current president was prostrating himself before this murderous crown prince, many of the same voices would just turn to calling him a weakling who takes the most powerful job in the world and uses it to put himself below psychotic despots, making them feel all warm in the nether regions. 

There's also a not small amount of wish casting and removing some agency and motivations from the Saudis themselves. We're sort of sidestepping the fact that they're in this business to make money, not necessarily just to earn plaudits and feelings. So their price manipulation probably extends to creating windfalls (we could trade them Israel for releasing a bunch of oil, I suppose. That would make the relationship rosy in a hurry). 

And of course, there's some pick and chose to it. We imbue people we like with positive qualities, ones we don't with negative ones. We say that we simply must keep one despot happy to keep our economy going, but regularly fantasize about cutting off a geopolitical rival (folks across the pacific), even though it would mean an enormous cost to main street. And the wages of our politics roll on. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 18, 2022, 09:04:26 AM

Not even close Max. 

I can vote (legally) in Florida, and I have a birth certificate that says I was born in Park Ridge, Illinois.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 18, 2022, 09:04:55 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 18, 2022, 08:44:15 AM

Where’d you read that?

It was in our local paper months ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 18, 2022, 09:06:32 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 17, 2022, 01:57:46 PM

The good thing about farms is they don't get up and move that much. You could probably make a plug in combine.

You obviously have never been on or even near an actual farm. They are used only a couple of times per year, but when they are, it is non stop for a couple of weeks as there is a limited window for harvest before suffering substantial losses due to rot, weather or any number of other factors. Having to charge your tractor or combine for an hour or so every couple of hours would render that piece of equipment useless.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 18, 2022, 09:11:19 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 18, 2022, 09:06:32 AM

You obviously have never been on or even near an actual farm. They are used only a couple of times per year, but when they are, it is non stop for a couple of weeks as there is a limited window for harvest before suffering substantial losses due to rot, weather or any number of other factors. Having to charge your tractor or combine for an hour or so every couple of hours would render that piece of equipment useless.

You could make a plug in combine, with a two mile long extension cord (that magically works without any losses).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 18, 2022, 09:13:08 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 18, 2022, 08:38:59 AM

Draw a red line in the sand. Then keep moving it. Works great.

By the way.. that guy is/was as American as I am Mexican.

Knock it off Pedro

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 18, 2022, 09:17:07 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 17, 2022, 07:51:48 PM

LOL the more words you type the sadder it is. He was educated in an American university, and lived in America, and worked in American journalism. Writing tons and tons to try and delude yourself away from the truth is what it is. Excuses, excuses, excuses. As you said, if Saudi Arabia had assassinated an American citizen proper, well, that's tough to ignore. No doubt, we would try to ignore it as we tried to ignore this, but at the end if the day, there is no getting around the obvious. It's just trying to put lipstick on a hog. This was an abomination and a direct assault on us, and we had to just take it. President Trump was made to look pathetic.

But as you say, that's where we are. Which is why we should be advocating getting out of that position instead of whining every other year about how people won't sell us gas on the cheap whenever we want it.

Japanese Admiral Yamamoto was educated and live in America for a while, yet he planned and executed the attack on Pearl Harbor and was later killed after his plane was shot down in the South Pacific. Perhaps because he lived in America for a while, by your reasoning, we should not have had him killed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2022, 09:18:44 AM

I'd think farm equipment would be the last thing we'd try and electrify, perhaps aircraft would be in that group.  For some things, hydrogen could make sense.

It has some issues of course.  

When will EVs globally put a real dent in gasoline usage?  I'm thinking we might start seeing that around 2030, which could be "peak oil", but the decline is going to be slow after that, and it could be 2035.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 18, 2022, 09:22:06 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 17, 2022, 08:10:51 PM

I've never heard of Paso Robles but I can imagine a lot of people walking on grapes

Does toe jam ferment or leave any lingering bitter notes?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 18, 2022, 09:24:06 AM

How long will it take to rebuild our fragile electric grid to handle the increased power needs? I've heard the argument that people will charge their cars at night, but during hot months, air conditioners, refrigerators and many other household appliances are still running. Adding millions of cars charging to that equation will tax the already outdated grid that much more. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2022, 09:31:53 AM

It's not just the grid, we'd need a lot more power as well, some estimates are around a third more if everything is EV.  Now, it's coming slowly, so there is time.

Without nuclear as a credible option, it's going to be natural gas for the most part.  For some reason, I read that solar doesn't work well at night.  But this is really a long term transition from ICE to EV, very long term, decades, it's not as if EVs are going to save us from the Saudis and OPECs of the world.

This is why we need a realistic outline of a PLAN, not just waving hands in the air.  There is so much political and ignorance in this, reality is really suffering.  One side wants to drill baby drill and the other side wants W&S and EVs tomorrow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 18, 2022, 10:14:07 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 18, 2022, 09:06:32 AM

You obviously have never been on or even near an actual farm. They are used only a couple of times per year, but when they are, it is non stop for a couple of weeks as there is a limited window for harvest before suffering substantial losses due to rot, weather or any number of other factors. Having to charge your tractor or combine for an hour or so every couple of hours would render that piece of equipment useless.

This reminds me - my uncle is selling the family farm. He wanted me to farm it, but yeah, I hate combines. Luckily he found a nonprofit that will basically keep it as a preserve or something. Stands to clear almost 2 million bucks, which is something, because he can't remember which bank he has accounts in half the time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 18, 2022, 10:15:21 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 18, 2022, 09:22:06 AM

Does toe jam ferment or leave any lingering bitter notes?

They call those California tannins

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 18, 2022, 10:39:37 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 18, 2022, 07:37:46 AM

Terry Hoague has a winery there.  He was an AA at UGA and posted a 3.93 GPA in genetics during his time as a student, played for the Eagles in the League for a while.  Really nice guy.

Just looked it up... Guess we drove right past it on the way to Ecluse, where we've been before a few years ago, and which has some fabulous wine. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 18, 2022, 10:43:12 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 17, 2022, 10:02:54 PM

Trump wasn't made to look like anything. Trump kept things transactional. He didn't purposely try to piss off and alienate the leader of the Sauids. In fact, it was quite the opposite. Trump bragged about providing political cover for MbS and shielding him from blowback in US. Trump literally did not even care. Why? 

Well, if you follow the rest of what you said, Trump was probably happy that he got sawed up, because he wanted to write not nice things about Trump. 

In his narcissistic brain, anyone who says something bad about him DESERVES to be sawed up. This time, for once, he actually got his wish. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 18, 2022, 10:57:52 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 18, 2022, 09:04:55 AM

It was in our local paper months ago.

I tried to double check, and I can find nothing but denials and articles that it was false.

Which is not to say that it’s 100% false, because frankly we can’t ever really know anything. But I would imagine that someone would have checked the property records and counter fact checked the fact check in the 2 1/2 months since it was sold.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 18, 2022, 11:23:39 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 17, 2022, 10:31:23 PM

This was apparently made up. Well, not the last part, that's a matter of opinion.

yeah, so turns out you're right. just looked into it further. glad it was made up, don't want that witch here, she can stay in California.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 18, 2022, 11:24:48 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 18, 2022, 08:19:38 AM

I think it was the most pathetic we have ever looked on a worldwide stage. The Saudis just sawed up an American journalist, and our president just had to take it. If there was ever a sign of the west's decline, that was it. Like I said, we have to give ourselves therapy talks about how he wasn't really, truly American so that we don't feel so bad about it and can move past. They weren't laughing at us, they were laughing with us. Boo-urns!

LMAO. No, the most pathetic we have ever looked on the worldwide stage is right now. 

Just because you keep saying the guy was an American journalist, does not make it true. He was not an American. Period. Had to just take it? Trump rightfully did not care about the Saudis killing one of their own. 

Give it a rest already.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 18, 2022, 11:29:00 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 18, 2022, 11:24:48 AM

LMAO. No, the most pathetic we have ever looked on the worldwide stage is right now.

Just because you keep saying the guy was an American journalist, does not make it true. He was not an American. Period. Had to just take it? Trump rightfully did not care about the Saudis killing one of their own.

Give it a rest already.

Well he was living in America getting paid by Americans. Hey maybe he voted in Saudi elections absentee. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 18, 2022, 11:31:47 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 18, 2022, 08:28:45 AM

I'm not sure what the US could do about Kashoggi beyond some harsh language.  Fortunately, we have reduced our dependence on SA oil by a good bit, though obviously their impact on global production remains enormous.  In "normal times", they would be considered an enemy, but the enemy of my enemy ...

They have a larger air force than any European country except Russia.  They seem to have a working relationship with Israel for the above reason.

whether the guy is called an "American" or not seems irrelevant to me, he was not a citizen, he did work here for a while and was educated here.

What is this nonsense? They have never been considered an enemy, and never will be so long as this is the current world order. They have been a strong ally of the US for oh- 70+ years. And that's not changing any time soon.

They have a larger air force than any European country because: they buy a f**kton of aircraft and advanced weapons systems from US defense contractors. Saudis have more than just a working relationship with Israel, they have been growing ever closer for the last couple decades, and it has nothing to do with the amount of air planes in their air force. Israel and Saudis are both very strong strong allies of the US for one. And two both countries intelligence services collaborate because: Iran- Israel and Saudis share a mortal enemy in common: Iran and both countries are also becoming increasingly hostile with Turkey. 

The guy wasn't an American. It's complete nonsense to try and portray him as such. LUDICROUS really. He comes from a very prominent, extremely wealthy, dynastic family in Saudi Arabia. He was born, raised, lived majority of his life there. He lived in America for the last year of his life and worked for the Washington Post as a freelance/contract writer and suddenly he's an American. :043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 18, 2022, 11:34:36 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 18, 2022, 09:17:07 AM

Japanese Admiral Yamamoto was educated and live in America for a while, yet he planned and executed the attack on Pearl Harbor and was later killed after his plane was shot down in the South Pacific. Perhaps because he lived in America for a while, by your reasoning, we should not have had him killed.

:043:

Osama Bin Laden was educated and lived in UK for awhile when he went to Oxford. He's British now. According to Max. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 18, 2022, 11:35:54 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 18, 2022, 11:34:36 AM

:043:

Osama Bin Laden was educated and lived in UK for awhile when he went to Oxford. He's British now. According to Max.

Hey I studied in Oxford too. No doubt, if the crown prince had me sawed up people would be going on that I was from England and no true American. Realpolitik. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 18, 2022, 11:42:43 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 18, 2022, 10:43:12 AM

Well, if you follow the rest of what you said, Trump was probably happy that he got sawed up, because he wanted to write not nice things about Trump.

In his narcissistic brain, anyone who says something bad about him DESERVES to be sawed up. This time, for once, he actually got his wish.

They may be well and true. But I believe Trump was likely looking at things more in the lens of a transactional/business relationship. Why disturb or disrupt good relations with Saudis because they slaughtered one of their own? They've been slaughtering their own for decades- since the foundation of the Kingdom- and US has never seemed to care all too much about it. 

And look it was a gruesome disgusting act, but I honestly do not care what happened to Khashoggi. It's not our business. He was not an American. US-Saudis have had a very close relationship and they have been allies for 70+ years. They brutalize and murder they own on the daily- and no one here has ever given a slight hint of a shit. Now all of a sudden people pretend to care (mostly from one US political party). Why? Hmmm could it be because the leader of that country openly hates said party? I tend to think so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 18, 2022, 12:00:08 PM

WHOOPS....turns out the real disinformation campaign vis a vis that laptop was coming from former "intelligence officials" and Biden himself....

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1504845003775950865?s=20&t=TbX6e7I8IYggeDUdH63ETw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 18, 2022, 12:01:59 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 18, 2022, 12:00:08 PM

WHOOPS....turns out the real disinformation campaign vis a vis that laptop was coming from former "intelligence officials" and Biden himself....

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1504845003775950865?s=20&t=TbX6e7I8IYggeDUdH63ETw

Everyone already knew that.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 18, 2022, 12:05:10 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 18, 2022, 12:01:59 PM

Everyone already knew that. 

yup, but now the NYT is admitting laptop/emails are authentic, so now I guess everyone is allowed to talk about it. Politico reporter already authenticated the emails awhile ago, but no one seemed to talk about it. NYT admitting it now, finally = kind of a big deal. 

Sure would like to hear from FB/Twitter, Biden, those 50 former "intelligence" officers and all the news papers and cable news shows who parroted the lie that it was "Russian disinformation!" and have them be held to account and make retractions. But of course, they will not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 18, 2022, 12:06:34 PM

don't you just love to see ads like this....WAR IS GOOD! INVEST TODAY! 


https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1504770753329311755?s=20&t=TbX6e7I8IYggeDUdH63ETw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 18, 2022, 12:08:13 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 18, 2022, 12:05:10 PM

yup, but now the NYT is admitting laptop/emails are authentic, so now I guess everyone is allowed to talk about it. Politico reporter already authenticated the emails awhile ago, but no one seemed to talk about it. NYT admitting it now, finally = kind of a big deal.

Sure would like to hear from FB/Twitter, Biden, those 50 former "intelligence" officers and all the news papers and cable news shows who parroted the lie that it was "Russian disinformation!" and have them be held to account and make retractions. But of course, they will not.

There was an election at stake lol.  

I seriously doubt any of them believed the crap narrative they were selling.  Our world today. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 18, 2022, 12:11:41 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 18, 2022, 12:08:13 PM

There was an election at stake lol. 

I seriously doubt any of them believed the crap narrative they were selling.  Our world today.

wait! I thought only Russians interfered with our elections. $100k in facebook ads is way worse! 

:043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 18, 2022, 12:33:52 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 18, 2022, 11:35:54 AM

Hey I studied in Oxford too. No doubt, if the crown prince had me sawed up people would be going on that I was from England and no true American. Realpolitik.

Oxford ,Ohio but a very good University non the less

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 18, 2022, 12:38:09 PM

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2022/03/17/new-york-times-finally-covers-what-got-the-new-york-post-banned-n2604688

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 18, 2022, 12:38:30 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 18, 2022, 12:33:52 PM

Oxford ,Ohio but a very good University non the less

My girlfriend there lived on a farm. So I definitely explored it a little bit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 18, 2022, 01:07:07 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 18, 2022, 12:38:30 PM

My girlfriend there lived on a farm. So I definitely explored it a little bit

The girlfriend?  The farm? Both?😳

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 18, 2022, 01:25:11 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 18, 2022, 11:29:00 AM

Well he was living in America getting paid by Americans. Hey maybe he voted in Saudi elections absentee.

Ummm...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 18, 2022, 01:44:06 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 18, 2022, 01:07:07 PM

The girlfriend?  The farm? Both?😳

Gotta get a look at every corner, make sure everything is held together well

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 18, 2022, 01:44:47 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 18, 2022, 01:25:11 PM

Ummm...

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/012/132/thatsthejoke.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 18, 2022, 05:25:57 PM

(from 2018) 

Not long ago, there was a popular joke in China that went something like, “Who is Xi Jinping?”

The answer was, “The husband of Peng Liyuan,” the famous singer Xi is married to.

Today, Xi is China’s president. He leads 1.4 billion people. And he’ll likely be the most powerful person in the world soon.

Trump’s tariffs are part of a larger, escalating battle between the US and China.

China is rapidly displacing the US as the dominant global power. This shift is inevitable. China’s economy will be twice as large as the US economy by 2030.

This leaves the US with limited options…

1) It could kick back and let China displace it as the most powerful country in the world.
2) It could start a military war with China.
3) And it could push the current trade battle into an all-out economic war against China.

I think a full-blown economic war is the most likely. Under President Trump, it’s all but certain.

That said, the Trump administration seems to underestimate China’s position—in both the short and long term.

For decades, the US has been able to exclude virtually any country it wants from international trade. Right now, if one country wants to trade with another, it basically needs US permission first.

That’s because (for a short while longer) the US dollar is the world’s most important currency. The US Navy also dominates the world’s oceans, controlling most major shipping lanes.

But China is building a new international system. Eventually, it will let China and its trading partners totally bypass the US.

History’s Biggest Infrastructure Project

The New Silk Road is the centerpiece of China’s new plan.

In the coming months and years, it will include high-speed rail lines, modern highways, fiber optic cables, energy pipelines, seaports, and airports. It will link the Atlantic shores of Europe to the Pacific shores of Asia.

China expects to have its New Silk Road fully up and running by 2025.

This is history’s biggest infrastructure project. The whole point is to completely re-draw the world economic map. If it’s successful—and it most likely will be—China will dominate Eurasia.

President Xi announced the $1.4 trillion plan in late 2013. When it’s done, a train leaving Beijing will be able to reach London in only two days.

Keep in mind, the Chinese are careful long-term planners. When they make a strategic decision of this magnitude, they totally commit.

Take their road system, for example. Between 1996 and 2016 China built 2.6 million miles of road, including 70,000 miles of highway. In just 20 years, it built far more highway than the US has in its entire existence.

In other words, the Chinese get things done. They have the political might—along with the financial, technological, and physical resources—to make the New Silk Road happen. With iron-willed President Xi at the helm, I have no doubt they’ll pull it off.

Not long from now, the New Silk Road will help China unseat the US as the world’s dominant global power and totally upend the geopolitical paradigm.

But before that happens—within the next couple of weeks, actually—China is introducing a way for anyone who buys or sells oil to opt out of the US-dominated global monetary system.

Why the Dollar Is Different Than the Peso

Most investors know that oil is the largest and most strategic commodity market in the world. It dwarfs all other major commodity markets combined.

Every country needs oil. And, for a short while longer, they need US dollars to buy it. That’s a very compelling reason to hold large dollar reserves.

This is the essence of the petrodollar system, which has underpinned the US dollar’s role as the world’s reserve currency since the early 1970s.

Right now, if Italy wants to buy oil from Kuwait, it has to purchase US dollars on the foreign exchange market to pay for the oil first.

This creates a huge artificial market for US dollars.

In part, this is what separates the US dollar from a purely local currency, like the Mexican peso.

The dollar is just a middleman. But it’s used in countless transactions amounting to trillions of dollars that have nothing to do with US products or services.

Since the oil market is so enormous, it acts as a benchmark for international trade. If foreign countries are already using dollars for oil, it’s just easier to use dollars for other international trade, too.

In addition to nearly all oil sales, the US dollar is used for about 80% of all international transactions.

This gives the US unmatched geopolitical leverage. The US can sanction or exclude virtually any country from the US dollar-based financial system at the flip of a switch. By extension, it can also cut off any country from the vast majority of international trade.

The petrodollar system is why people and businesses everywhere in the world take US dollars. Other countries have had little choice about it, until now…

China’s “Golden Alternative”

China does not want to depend on its main adversary like this. It’s the world’s largest oil importer. And it doesn’t want to buy all that oil with US dollars.

That’s why China is introducing a new way to buy oil. For the first time, it will allow for the large-scale exchange of oil for gold.

I’m calling this new mechanism China’s “Golden Alternative” to the petrodollar.

Ultimately, I think people will look back and see the Golden Alternative as the catalyst that killed the petrodollar.

Here’s how it will work…

The Shanghai International Energy Exchange is introducing a crude oil futures contract denominated in Chinese yuan. It will allow oil producers to sell their oil for yuan.

China knows most oil producers don’t want a large reserve of yuan. So producers will be able to efficiently convert it into physical gold through gold exchanges in Shanghai and Hong Kong.

Countries around the world will have a genuine, viable way to opt out of the petrodollar system. Now is the time to position yourself to profit.

Gold Will Soar

With China’s Golden Alternative, a lot of oil money will flow into yuan and gold instead of dollars and Treasuries.

I think the price of gold is going to soar.

If we assume that just half of Chinese oil imports will be purchased in gold soon, it translates into increased demand of well over 60 million ounces per year—or more than 55% of gold’s annual production.

Of course, China won’t be the only country using the Golden Alternative. Anyone will be able to.

The increased demand for gold is going to shock the market. That’s why I think the price of gold will soar.

As the petrodollar dies, gold will be remonetized… and China will be another step closer to displacing the US.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 18, 2022, 05:27:13 PM

(from 2018)

[color=var(--sa-text-color-1)]Yes, The Petro-Yuan Is A Threat To The U.S. Dollar[/font][/size][/color]

Summary

• The US dollar enjoys a special privilege in the world due to its dominance in the global oil trade.
• The agreement that created this dominance was predicated on the United States being the largest oil importer in the world, which is no longer the case.
• China is rolling out a new gold-backed yuan oil contract next month as part of its attempt to replace the US dollar's dominance of that commodity trade.
• Given the US's rise as a potential energy exporter and other factors, China may succeed in this goal.
• If the dollar loses its privileged status, it will likely lead to inflation and rising interest rates in the USA along with difficulty maintaining the current standard of living.

I recently encountered a blog post by respected commentator Mish Shedlock entitled, "[color=var(--sa-link-color)]Petro-Yuan Futures Launch In March: Ignore The Hype, It's A Good Thing (http://www.talkmarkets.com/content/global-markets/petro-yuan-futures-launch-in-march-ignore-the-hype-its-a-good-thing?post=165388&uid=5335)[/iurl]." In this article, Shedlock argues that the new futures will pose no threat to the US dollar as the global reserve currency even if the futures do result in oil being priced in yuan. While Shedlock does certainly make some interesting points, I do disagree with his overall conclusion. This article will explain why.[/size]

[/font][/size][/color]

Shedlock's Argument
First of all, I would suggest reading the original article linked above to get a full grasp of Mr. Shedlock's argument. The discussion here will merely be a short summary of the initial article along with my conclusions about it.
In short, Shedlock states that it does not matter what currency oil is valued in as all currencies are basically interchangeable. He does however believe that we may be nearing the end of the days of the Middle East selling their oil for US dollars but that has nothing to do with the launch of the petro-yuan oil futures. Rather, it is a direct result of the shale oil boom in the United States, which could turn the United States into a net oil exporter by the end of the decade and thus the country would no longer need to import oil from the Middle East.

Shedlock concludes however that this would have little impact on the US dollar's status as a reserve currency and that the United States would be better off as an exporter of energy than with oil continuing to be priced in dollars.

The Rise Of The Petrodollar
In order to understand the flaws in this argument, it is important to understand how the United States got into the position of controlling the world's primary reserve currency. It has its roots in a 1944 conference held at the Mt. Washington Hotel in Bretton Woods, New Hampshire that was attended by 730 delegates from all 44 Allied nations. After 22 days of deliberation, the delegates eventually devised a monetary system in which the United States dollars would be directly convertible into gold and all other currencies would be pegged to the dollar.

As the United States owned approximately two-thirds of the world's gold at the time, this system made sense and it put the gold standard into place as fiat currencies were widely considered to be one of the root causes of the second World War. This also resulted in the US dollar becoming the reserve currency since all other currencies were pegged to it (and the dollar itself was directly convertible into gold).

However, in the 1960s, the United States had a growing trade imbalance and a rapidly growing public debt due to its declining dominance of the world's economic output and expenses related to the Vietnam War. This, combined with monetary inflation due to Federal Reserve policies, resulted in the US dollar being increasingly overvalued. Some foreign nations were becoming increasingly disenchanted with the privilege that this situation provided to the United States compared to its partners in the Bretton Woods system.

Some nations, led by France, began to convert their dollars into gold, putting pressure on the gold reserves of the United States to the point where only $3.2 billion worth of actual gold was backing $14 billion held by foreign central banks. In 1971, West Germany left the Bretton Woods system and both France and Switzerland demanded physical gold in exchange for their dollars.

Finally, in August 1971, President Richard Nixon suspended the convertibility of US dollars into gold in an attempt to remedy these problems. While it did stop the problem of declining gold reserves, it also sparked widespread speculation against the dollar due in part to the high trade deficits, mounting debt load, and high unemployment in the United States at this time.

This led to its own problems, including a high inflation rate in the United States. This also led to problems with international trade since foreign currencies were appreciating so rapidly that it was difficult to price goods appropriately. The United States began to look for a solution for these problems.

In 1973, Secretary of State Henry Kissinger negotiated an agreement with Saudi Arabia, the largest oil exporter in the world then as now. In the agreement, the Kingdom would require all sales of its oil to be paid for in US dollars and in exchange the United States would provide Saudi Arabia with weapons and protection. As the United States was its biggest customer at the time, the arrangement made sense. Other oil exporting nations followed Saudi Arabia's lead on this out of convenience and soon the international oil trade was being conducted in dollars.

This generated artificial demand for US dollars globally since nations that imported oil were essentially forced to maintain holdings of US dollars in order to pay for their needed oil. It also led to a growing stockpile of US dollars in oil exporting nations. This setup makes the dollar more valuable than it would otherwise be due to the artificial demand.

Petrodollar Recycling
This process of paying for oil using US dollars has also led to a phenomenon known as petrodollar recycling. As already mentioned, the fact that oil importing countries were paying for their oil using US dollars resulted in growing stockpiles of dollars in the central banks of those countries that export oil, in particular the OPEC nations, Norway, and Russia. In many cases, this was more money than these nations could efficiently invest in their own economies.
The logical thing for these nations to do then was invest in US dollar-denominated assets abroad, especially US Treasuries. This influx of money into treasuries increased the demand for them and held interest rates down, thus allowing the US government, businesses, and individuals to borrow money more cheaply than they otherwise could. Thus, the United States was able to enjoy a higher standard of living than it could otherwise afford.

Enter The Petro-Yuan
The agreement with Saudi Arabia that established the US dollar as the dominant currency in international trade was created at a time in which the United States was both Saudi Arabia's largest oil purchaser and the largest oil importer in the world. However, things have changed since that time. In April 2015, China [color=var(--sa-link-color)]supplanted the United States (http://time.com/3853451/china-crude-oil-top-importer/)[/iurl] as the largest oil importer in the world. China is also Saudi Arabia's biggest oil buyer. The communist nation has already begun to use some of its leverage with the Kingdom and has put some implicit pressure on it to begin settling oil purchases with the yuan.[/size]

The Saudi riyal is also one of only a handful of currencies that is directly convertible into yuan. China already actively conducts business with two other major oil exporting nations, China and Russia, using yuan. It is interesting to note that both of these countries have been targeted by the United States for economic sanctions over the past few years.
China has now doubled down on its move to increase or even supplant the use of the US dollar in the oil trade with its planned launch of oil futures denominated in yuan on the Shanghai and Hong Kong exchanges next month. The Chinese government apparently admits that many global businesses, individuals, and nations may be hesitant to embrace the idea of trading real resources for a heavily government-controlled currency, which is why the yuan used in these contracts will be directly convertible into gold, similar to the US dollar prior to 1971.[/font][/size][/color]

This is a move that I predicted in several articles published here when I noticed that China was seemingly importing far more gold than the official figures were indicating. This feature could certainly make these contracts much more accepted than Shedlock seems to believe.

It is, after all, not hard to imagine a scenario in which an oil exporter would rather have a gold-backed currency (or even physical gold itself) than a fiat currency from an increasingly erratic, money printing nation with out of control public debts and deficits. That alone could allow this new contract to rapidly become the new standard in the oil trade, particularly with the prospect of the United States no longer being an oil-importing nation.

End Results
Should the petro-yuan supplant the US dollar as the standard currency in the oil trade, it will have a few effects on the United States economy, none of them good. The first of these is that oil importing countries will no longer have to maintain a stockpile of US dollars in order to purchase oil. Thus, the demand for US dollars will likely decline and this would cause the value of the US dollar to decline relative to other currencies. All else being equal, that would cause the inflation rate in the United States to increase, perhaps dramatically.

A second effect that the rise of the petro-yuan would have is that the OPEC and other oil exporting nations would no longer be accumulating large surpluses of US dollars to reinvest in US treasuries. Instead, these nations will be accumulating stockpiles of yuan and possibly gold. While these assets could still conceivably be invested in US treasuries, there is no guarantee that these nations would do this and it could result in declining international demand for Treasuries, which would cause prices to fall and rates to rise.

This would not only increase borrowing rates for the US Government and further strain the federal budget, but would result in higher borrowing costs across the economy including mortgages, corporate debt, auto loans, and student loans. Higher interest rates cause economic slowdowns, which is why the Federal Reserve raises rates near the top of an economic cycle.
In his article, Shedlock states that other countries will continue to hold US dollars by virtue of the nation's large trade deficit with the rest of the world. While he is correct, that alone would not be enough to provide the US dollar with the privileged status that it enjoys today by virtue of its dominance in the oil trade. Simply receiving US dollars when Americans purchase imported goods does not produce artificial demand internationally for the currency. It also stands to reason that the US trade deficit will decline as a result of the nation becoming an energy exporter, resulting in the supply of dollars leaving the country declining.

Conclusion
China has been seeking to supplant the US dollar's privileged status in international finance for quite some time. The communist nation's newest move to introduce a new yuan-denominated oil contract backed by gold is only the latest step in its long-term efforts. Unfortunately, this may be the step that succeeds, particularly if the United States does become an energy exporting nation. If this happens, the US dollar would become just another currency and this would make it harder for the federal government to run high deficits like it has been over the past fifteen years and likely lead to both higher inflation and higher interest rates in the country.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 18, 2022, 05:34:45 PM

China is at war with us, for sure.  But that's an extremely optimistic view of their prospects.

Here we sit just a few years later, and a global pandemic is bringing China to its knees.  The rest of the world is suffering too, of course, but this just shows how delicate the balance must be in order for China to prosper and thrive.

And despite their apparent beliefs to the contrary, China simply can't do it without the US.  They need the largest consumer nation in the world, to keep on consuming. 

They are incorrect in their assumptions that the US can't just simply cut them off and cut them out.  We've already discussed how China isn't really a low cost nation anymore-- the US has numerous options for cheap production, options that come without the baggage inherent to any dealings with the CCP.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 18, 2022, 05:48:31 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 18, 2022, 05:34:45 PM

China is at war with us, for sure.  But that's an extremely optimistic view of their prospects.

Here we sit just a few years later, and a global pandemic is bringing China to its knees.  The rest of the world is suffering too, of course, but this just shows how delicate the balance must be in order for China to prosper and thrive.

And despite their apparent beliefs to the contrary, China simply can't do it without the US.  They need the largest consumer nation in the world, to keep on consuming.

They are incorrect in their assumptions that the US can't just simply cut them off and cut them out.  We've already discussed how China isn't really a low cost nation anymore-- the US has numerous options for cheap production, options that come without the baggage inherent to any dealings with the CCP.

will China become the largest consumer nation one day though? they have over a billion more people than us. My god I you're right and US can delink itself from China. As much problems as US has and as stupid as I think our foreign policy is sometimes, I really don't want to live in a world where the US isn't the dominant power in the world. Would suck to have to live in a world that the CCP rules.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 18, 2022, 05:58:37 PM

To separate ourselves from depending on China we have to have a Federal government thats not in bed with China which mainly means our President

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 18, 2022, 06:58:25 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 18, 2022, 05:34:45 PM

China is at war with us, for sure.  But that's an extremely optimistic view of their prospects.

Here we sit just a few years later, and a global pandemic is bringing China to its knees.  The rest of the world is suffering too, of course, but this just shows how delicate the balance must be in order for China to prosper and thrive.

And despite their apparent beliefs to the contrary, China simply can't do it without the US.  They need the largest consumer nation in the world, to keep on consuming.

They are incorrect in their assumptions that the US can't just simply cut them off and cut them out.  We've already discussed how China isn't really a low cost nation anymore-- the US has numerous options for cheap production, options that come without the baggage inherent to any dealings with the CCP.

In some ways, it strikes me as an unserious war. They spent a lot of time chasing mercantilist goals. Which is to say, they subsidized our consumption to a degree. 

And if the money flows like it does, they might just be left with hundreds of useless empty airports. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 18, 2022, 07:01:04 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 18, 2022, 05:58:37 PM

To separate ourselves from depending on China we have to have a Federal government thats not in bed with China which mainly means our President

I'm curious the context of this. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 18, 2022, 07:31:31 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 18, 2022, 07:01:04 PM

I'm curious the context of this.

Youre not familiar with the payments made from Chinese companies to Biden's son or the emails that make it obvious that Biden received some of it?  Really?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 18, 2022, 07:32:29 PM

10% held by H for the big guy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 18, 2022, 07:34:33 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 18, 2022, 07:01:04 PM

I'm curious the context of this.

really?

i'm not

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 18, 2022, 07:34:45 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 18, 2022, 07:32:29 PM

10% held by H for the big guy.

there ya go

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 18, 2022, 07:39:50 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 18, 2022, 07:34:33 PM

really?

i'm not

https://nypost.com/2020/10/15/emails-reveal-how-hunter-biden-tried-to-cash-in-big-with-chinese-firm/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 18, 2022, 07:40:29 PM

Hunter Biden: What was he doing in China and Ukraine?
 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-54553132)
 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-54553132)
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-54553132 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-54553132)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 18, 2022, 07:44:54 PM

Hunter Biden is a businessman. (This is blanket cover for any shady stuff that ever comes up. If I've learned anything over the past few years, I've learned that)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 18, 2022, 07:47:02 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 18, 2022, 07:44:54 PM

Hunter Biden is a crackhead.

True story. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 18, 2022, 07:47:54 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 18, 2022, 07:47:02 PM

True story.

Well, if the president's kid being a drug addict was a big problem, we would be all out of presidents

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 18, 2022, 07:51:37 PM

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8849687/Hunter-Biden-emails-identify-Joe-Biden-deal-Chinese-energy-firm-report-says.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 18, 2022, 07:54:49 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 18, 2022, 07:31:31 PM

Youre not familiar with the payments made from Chinese companies to Biden's son or the emails that make it obvious that Biden received some of it?  Really?

I'd forgotten that threadbare element of that theory. Appreciate being reminded. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 18, 2022, 07:56:44 PM

The reason I dredged this crap up is to point out that its hard enough dealing with China and with Biden's Chinese connections its double tough

The first thing Joe did was to lift many trade tariffs on China that had been imposed by Trump

Now who would have seen that coming

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 18, 2022, 08:12:20 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 18, 2022, 07:56:44 PM

The reason I dredged this crap up is to point out that its hard enough dealing with China and with Biden's Chinese connections its double tough

The first thing Joe did was to lift many trade tariffs on China that had been imposed by Trump

Now who would have seen that coming

Why do I google Biden lifting tariffs and see nothing but articles about not lifting them on China? Where am I missing this?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 18, 2022, 09:38:37 PM

You need to ignore all actual news outlets and only cite the far-right delusional ones.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 18, 2022, 09:44:30 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 18, 2022, 08:12:20 PM

Why do I google Biden lifting tariffs and see nothing but articles about not lifting them on China? Where am I missing this?

Because he hasnt I was wrong

Im sure theres a special place in hell for me

I misread an article

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 18, 2022, 09:55:04 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 18, 2022, 06:58:25 PM

In some ways, it strikes me as an unserious war. They spent a lot of time chasing mercantilist goals. Which is to say, they subsidized our consumption to a degree.

And if the money flows like it does, they might just be left with hundreds of useless empty airports.

Keen observations.

I'm not sure I'd label it as "unserious" because the intentions were as deliberate as can be. 

Misplaced or misguided, might be appropriate.  A mercantalist approach without a deep understanding of true capitalism, might not be the recipe for success they had thought.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 18, 2022, 10:07:07 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 18, 2022, 09:44:30 PM

Because he hasnt I was wrong

Im sure theres a special place in hell for me

I misread an article

I won't tell the Sooners

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 18, 2022, 10:13:58 PM

eff the sooners.  o u sucks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 19, 2022, 12:47:15 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 18, 2022, 09:44:30 PM

Because he hasnt I was wrong

Im sure theres a special place in hell for me

I misread an article

You will be sentenced to death, but it will be merciful.

Consume brisket until you burst. /Bangs gavel. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 19, 2022, 08:53:05 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 18, 2022, 10:13:58 PM

eff the sooners.  o u sucks.

Well if the Shorthorns are ever going to get off the schneid and back in the mix no time like the present

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 19, 2022, 08:59:56 AM

I don't think China wants to suppress the US, they do aspire to be the dominant country in the world.  And they likely will get there eventually, though a revolution can happen at some point.  Their key is the middle class aspirants, so long as life appears to be improving for most folks, they should remain stable.  The air pollution thing is another flash point for them.

If they can suck Russia or the US into useless expensive wars, it's good for them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 19, 2022, 09:05:54 AM

The gold thing is interesting, the price hasn't really moved much.  I know folks have been hawking gold since 2009 as if it's going to make you rich.  Obviously it can't.  It could keep you from being poor.

Over the past five years, gold is up about 34% in dollar value, which isn't bad, but the S&P500 has nearly doubled.

Past performance of course.

One thing my money manager did when he took over my IRA was ditch the gold in 2012 when I retired.  I asked why, it turns out he was right to do so.  I didn't have much, maybe 2% of the portfolio.  I bought some GOLD back five years ago or so, not much, but some, it hasn't really done that well.

Since gold bullion is heavy stuff, we tend not to transport it, we create paper that indicates you own gold in some vault somewhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 19, 2022, 09:06:32 AM

Then later paper indicates you can exchange it for silver, then later, it means you can use it to buy a Fiat.  That part always confused me, why Fiats?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 19, 2022, 09:22:34 AM

Russia backs down on demands in Iran nuclear deal talks, making revival of 2015 pact imminent (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/18/russia-backs-down-on-demands-in-iran-nuclear-deal-talks-making-revival-of-2015-pact-imminent.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 19, 2022, 10:02:30 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 18, 2022, 07:47:54 PM

Well, if the president's kid being a drug addict was a big problem, we would be all out of presidents

Presidents with a druggie kid is a short list. Seems to me the W girls liked to party a bit. Never heard anything about the kids of others.

Presidents with an addict, crackhead, hooker-obsessed, and corrupt kid is a list of one.

Good thing that the kid the smartest man ever!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 19, 2022, 10:19:17 AM

Being a drug addict is not really the news here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 19, 2022, 10:45:06 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 19, 2022, 10:02:30 AM

Presidents with a druggie kid is a short list. Seems to me the W girls liked to party a bit. Never heard anything about the kids of others.

Presidents with an addict, crackhead, hooker-obsessed, and corrupt kid is a list of one.

Good thing that the kid the smartest man ever!!

LOL. Don Jr certainly has all the looks of someone who does a lot of drugs. George W. had lots of sobriety issues that he talked about. Reagan's daughter talked about how many drugs she took starting when she was 15. I don't recall much about Chelsea Clinton or the Obama kids. In any event, no shortage of drug usage among the trust fund lot with lots of access to money and drugs and who don't really have much incentive to work for a living.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 19, 2022, 10:46:28 AM

For some to have used drugs is not the story here, at all.  It's ancillary.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 19, 2022, 10:48:16 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 19, 2022, 10:46:28 AM

For some to have used drugs is not the story here, at all.  It's ancillary.

Seems like the most important thing to lots of people

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 19, 2022, 10:53:39 AM

Hunter's drug use is the least of his transgressions 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 19, 2022, 10:57:01 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 19, 2022, 10:48:16 AM

Seems like the most important thing to lots of people

I disagree, strongly, it's an aside, peripheral, one could eliminate the drug part of this and still have a significant story.

The STORY here is about corruption, not drug use, and a second story is about suppression of the story.  Somewhere down the line maybe his drug use comes into play, but it's really peripheral.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 19, 2022, 10:58:39 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 19, 2022, 10:57:01 AM

I disagree, strongly, it's an aside, peripheral, one could eliminate the drug part of this and still have a significant story.

The STORY here is about corruption, not drug use, and a second story is about suppression of the story.  Somewhere down the line maybe his drug use comes into play, but it's really peripheral. 

You can disagree or not, doesn't change the very real fact that most of what people say about this is mean things about his drug use, and then there is some stuff about the suppression of the story, and then there is something about corruption that is usually left very undefined. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 19, 2022, 11:08:17 AM

The news about the child of a President using drugs is salacious perhaps, but compared with the news of a President "on the take", it's insignificant.

Ten percent for the Big Guy.  

The news about how the laptop story was suppressed is also far more interesting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 19, 2022, 11:13:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 19, 2022, 11:08:17 AM

The news about the child of a President using drugs is salacious perhaps, but compared with the news of a President "on the take", it's insignificant.

Ten percent for the Big Guy. 

The news about how the laptop story was suppressed is also far more interesting.

if this had been Trump Jr there would have been headlines for years concerning it

a special prosecutor would have been appointed to investigate it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 19, 2022, 11:24:58 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 19, 2022, 11:08:17 AM

The news about the child of a President using drugs is salacious perhaps, but compared with the news of a President "on the take", it's insignificant.

Ten percent for the Big Guy. 

The news about how the laptop story was suppressed is also far more interesting.

The "on the take" stuff is fairly flimsy, and it's not like there was a shortage of Trump being on the take, and a lot of those never really took off. The MAr a Lago stuff never really got the attention of Russia stuff. Russia stuff seems to get media attention all the time. Maybe because people in charge grew up during the Cold War? I dunno. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 19, 2022, 11:31:17 AM

Maybe it is flimsy, but there is at least enough to look into in my view.  Until it's investigated, it would remain flimsy.

The suppression of laptop news isn't flimsy at all.

Whatever Trump did or didn't do is irrelevant to this story.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 19, 2022, 11:33:03 AM

politicians and their families being on the take or full of corruption is hardly a story these days

it's crazy it's so accepted

both sides are horribly corrupt

neither side cares what the public thinks about it

neither side will prosecute the "other" side for fear they might have to go to jail

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 19, 2022, 11:34:12 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 19, 2022, 11:31:17 AM

Maybe it is flimsy, but there is at least enough to look into in my view.  Until it's investigated, it would remain flimsy.

The suppression of laptop news isn't flimsy at all.

Whatever Trump did or didn't do is irrelevant to this story.

Certainly not. Extremely relevant for the media to see what flies before jumping on a story

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 19, 2022, 11:35:49 AM

Trump isn't goin to jail, neither is Biden

end of story

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 19, 2022, 11:37:01 AM

FORE!!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 19, 2022, 11:40:46 AM

I am actually enjoying the attempted sweeping under the rug of all things Trump going on in multiple threads here.  It's adorable....and predictable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 19, 2022, 11:46:46 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 19, 2022, 11:35:49 AM

Trump isn't goin to jail, neither is Biden

end of story

The Hunters and Don Juniors of the world make me glad I'm not well to do enough to have trust fund babies

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 19, 2022, 11:54:12 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 19, 2022, 11:46:46 AM

The Hunters and Don Juniors of the world make me glad I'm not well to do enough to have trust fund babies

Putting the word Hunter in the same sentence as Don Jr is ridiculous

No comparison at all

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 19, 2022, 11:56:01 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 19, 2022, 11:40:46 AM

I am actually enjoying the attempted sweeping under the rug of all things Trump going on in multiple threads here.  It's adorable....and predictable.

Name one thing that hasnt been debunked that is being swept under the rug about Trump.

again he lives in your heads 24/7

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 19, 2022, 11:58:23 AM

For any of you thinking Bill Mahar is a liberal hack and you don't bother with him - you might like this finale of last night's show.  In fact, you'll probably love it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIQeZmJDMww (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIQeZmJDMww)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 19, 2022, 12:06:40 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 19, 2022, 11:37:01 AM

FORE!!!!

So excavating the fairways again,someone should give you a wedgie and see how you like it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 19, 2022, 12:11:07 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 19, 2022, 11:58:23 AM

For any of you thinking Bill Mahar is a liberal hack and you don't bother with him - you might like this finale of last night's show.  In fact, you'll probably love it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIQeZmJDMww (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIQeZmJDMww)

I find myself liking Bill Mahar and agree with him on a lot of things.  Some folks dont like him because hes not left enough

He represents what the old dem party used to be

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 19, 2022, 12:25:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 19, 2022, 10:46:28 AM

For some to have used drugs is not the story here, at all.  It's ancillary.

That is true, though it is contextual. If someone is gonna tell me the kid is a raging junkie (sure), then by nature, I'm gonna be skeptical that he's running this great grift, giving pops a taste and everything.

Junkies lie, kinda a lot. Now maybe he's less a junkie than promised. That's something I can't say. (To be clear, I'm not saying the world is one way or another. Just trying to practice skepticism on a lot of fronts)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 19, 2022, 02:18:39 PM

Let's presume Hunter never got into drugs at all, not a thing, the rest of this appears to be a real story, absent any drug use.

As for Trump and his ilk, I hope they get whatever justice should be applied to whatever they have done also.  But it's a separate topic, a whataboutism, a distraction, like claiming the Biden story is about drugs.  

I don't care what a son did about drugs, it's his affair, other than being sad for a life apparently wasted.  The ten percent for the Big Guy is a point of real concern.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 19, 2022, 02:27:19 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 19, 2022, 02:18:39 PM

Let's presume Hunter never got into drugs at all, not a thing, the rest of this appears to be a real story, absent any drug use.

As for Trump and his ilk, I hope they get whatever justice should be applied to whatever they have done also.  But it's a separate topic, a whataboutism, a distraction, like claiming the Biden story is about drugs. 

I don't care what a son did about drugs, it's his affair, other than being sad for a life apparently wasted.  The ten percent for the Big Guy is a point of real concern.

Some real "I'd prefer not to address that" energy here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 19, 2022, 02:35:33 PM

I'm all for charging Trump et al. if he broke the law.  At least in that case we have several official investigations happening.  Great, I'll see what they produce.

That is in contrast with "ten percent for the Big Guy".  Maybe that didn't mean anything, but it seems to warrant a look in my view.  My guess is Republicans retake Congress in November and squander a lot of time with lame "investigations" of Biden that yield little or nothing.  They aren't very good at it from what I've seen.

Investigations often are just political ploys, not real investigations.  I would be shocked at how obvious questions would not be asked on TV to the point I realized they were hearings for political optics.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 19, 2022, 02:48:00 PM

This thread is funny.  You are discussing Hunter Biden and the cover up around his laptop which includes proof of corruption and tax evasion. But then our two resident lefties, Sam and Frodo turn it into a conversation about Trump.  😂😂😂

That’s all they have and that’s all they ever have. And it’s much to do about nothing of course.  But they are very artful at it. You mentioned our vegetable in chief and his obvious And repeated failures and shortcomings and the next word out of their mouth is Trump.

I think they’re lying dog face pony soldiers. 😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 19, 2022, 03:00:14 PM

As I noted, we have investigations into Trump, fine with me.  Do we have anything about Biden?  Nope.

We likely will come next January, more for show than go.

I am a bit curious how a lendee can over value his assets to get a larger loan.  Whose fault is that, the lender or the lendee?  I don't know.  Seems odd to me.  And then if you undervalue the same assets for tax purposes, well, I don't see that either, it's all public record.  The assessor around here doesn't take my word for it, nor does my loan entity, they sent out an appraiser.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 19, 2022, 03:17:26 PM

https://news.yahoo.com/lawyer-examined-hunter-biden-finances-141735819.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 19, 2022, 03:22:14 PM

There is an investigation into Hunter, but not Joe, so far as is known.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 19, 2022, 03:45:22 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 19, 2022, 02:48:00 PM

This thread is funny.  You are discussing Hunter Biden and the cover up around his laptop which includes proof of corruption and tax evasion. But then our two resident lefties, Sam and Frodo turn it into a conversation about Trump.  😂😂😂

That’s all they have and that’s all they ever have. And it’s much to do about nothing of course.  But they are very artful at it. You mentioned our vegetable in chief and his obvious And repeated failures and shortcomings and the next word out of their mouth is Trump.

I think they’re lying dog face pony soldiers. 😂😂😂

LOL. I realize defending Trump is usually an exercise in denying reality. I think my favorite bit is the one where bringing up Trump, the former president and the current Republican frontrunner for 2024, is somehow akin to bringing up Millard Fillmore. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 19, 2022, 03:51:17 PM

Who here is defending Trump?  I may have missed it.

The topic drifted off to Hunter Biden, a topic that has zero to do with Trump, but we could discuss the various investigations into Trump, since we discuss everything and nothing here.  Off the top of my head, Trump is being investigated for:

Tax evasion in New York (recent new on that seemed to suggest this was perhaps ending)
Something about over valuing his properties to get loans in NY
Interfering with election officials in Georgia (not much news has leaked on this front)
January 6 (the House)
Probably some other things too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 19, 2022, 03:55:14 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 19, 2022, 03:45:22 PM

LOL. I realize defending Trump is usually an exercise in denying reality. I think my favorite bit is the one where bringing up Trump, the former president and the current Republican frontrunner for 2024, is somehow akin to bringing up Millard Fillmore.

its not that. Its the fact when the dems run against Trump they wont talk about the good things they will do for the country but just bad things Trump does.  Your whole campaign is not what you will do for the country but why you should not vote for Trump.

Its very obvious that the dems dont want the voters to know what  their true agenda is and thats why all they have to talk about is bashing Trump.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 19, 2022, 03:56:00 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 19, 2022, 03:45:22 PM

LOL. I realize defending Trump is usually an exercise in denying reality. I think my favorite bit is the one where bringing up Trump, the former president and the current Republican frontrunner for 2024, is somehow akin to bringing up Millard Fillmore.

Thanks for continuing to prove my point. You’re not capable of discussing current affairs because you’re still suffering major TDS

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 19, 2022, 04:00:17 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 19, 2022, 03:56:00 PM

Thanks for continuing to prove my point. You’re not capable of discussing current affairs because you’re still suffering major TDS

You should tell that to the Ohio Republican senate candidates

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 19, 2022, 04:08:03 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 19, 2022, 03:55:14 PM

its not that. Its the fact when the dems run against Trump they wont talk about the good things they will do for the country but just bad things Trump does.  Your whole campaign is not what you will do for the country but why you should not vote for Trump.

Its very obvious that the dems dont want the voters to know what  their true agenda is and thats why all they have to talk about is bashing Trump.

In my view, both parties do this.  Negative advertising works, laying out what you propose to do doesn't, other than in some vague hand waving notional fashion.

I don't blame them, I blame "us".  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 19, 2022, 04:20:32 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/Opa1Mbv.png)

SR-71 at Mach 3+ 80,000 feet ASL.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 19, 2022, 08:23:38 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 19, 2022, 03:17:26 PM

https://news.yahoo.com/lawyer-examined-hunter-biden-finances-141735819.html

If that Lawyer has the goods on the knob she'd prolly be better served keeping her yap shut.Why tip off the enemy camp until it's time to lower the boom

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 19, 2022, 08:31:59 PM

Gas Prices Around the World

The average price of gasoline around the world is 1.32 U.S. Dollar per litre. However, there is substantial difference in these prices among countries. As a general rule, richer countries have higher prices while poorer countries and the countries that produce and export oil have significantly lower prices.

https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline_prices/ (https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline_prices/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 20, 2022, 01:38:25 AM

Historical football question:

I notice Nebraska used 2 QBs pretty often in the late-70s to early-80s.  I also know they were struggling with OU during that time.

Was it an issue for Obsborne?  A point of contention?  Or was it accepted and understood by the fanbase?

Just wondering.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 20, 2022, 08:25:26 AM

My daughter in C-bus told me she got a first offer on her home $20 K over ask, which was $200 K.  Her second offer was $40 K over ask, I don't know any details and contingencies.  That's a hot market.

She's however moving to another hot expensive market, but she's getting a 20% raise, she said.  I told her I could retire now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 20, 2022, 08:56:06 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 20, 2022, 01:38:25 AM

Historical football question:

I notice Nebraska used 2 QBs pretty often in the late-70s to early-80s.  I also know they were struggling with OU during that time.

Was it an issue for Obsborne?  A point of contention?  Or was it accepted and understood by the fanbase?

Just wondering.

late 70s Osborne was working a pro style offense with a passing QB that could also run some
in the early 80s, Osborne switched the offense to more of a running QB and less passing specifically to match up with the Sooners in the late November game and the weather that came with it.

Doc Tom only used 2 QBs because he didn't have one.
I don't think Vince Ferragamo or David Humm or Turner Gill shared many snaps when the game was in doubt

Now obviously, Osborne's offense was regularly putting half a hundred on opposing defenses and that allowed for the 2nd and 3rd string QBs to get plenty of work.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 20, 2022, 04:32:31 PM

Final Paso Robles tally...

6 wineries visited
1 badass wine club party (so technically 7 wineries?)
27 bottles of wine purchased to bring home
Seafood restaurant with the most amazing mussels I've ever had, and the most amazing cioppino
1 brewery, because, well, it's me
0 hangovers (at least for my wife and I; others in our group might have been a bit rough after the party lol)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 20, 2022, 04:34:02 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 20, 2022, 04:32:31 PM

Final Paso Robles tally...

6 wineries visited
1 badass wine club party (so technically 7 wineries?)
27 bottles of wine purchased to bring home
Seafood restaurant with the most amazing mussels I've ever had, and the most amazing cioppino
1 brewery, because, well, it's me
0 hangovers (at least for my wife and I; others in our group might have been a bit rough after the party lol)

First of all, how dare you?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 20, 2022, 04:51:03 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 20, 2022, 04:34:02 PM

First of all, how day you?

We're professionals. 

Anyone got tips or apps on managing a wine cellar / collection? In our wine fridge we often don't really know what we have; particularly the bottles on the back half of a shelf. 

Lady at one of the wineries suggested the CellarTracker app, but I figured I'd ask you guys too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 20, 2022, 05:43:12 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 20, 2022, 04:32:31 PM

Final Paso Robles tally...

6 wineries visited
1 badass wine club party (so technically 7 wineries?)
27 bottles of wine purchased to bring home
Seafood restaurant with the most amazing mussels I've ever had, and the most amazing cioppino
1 brewery, because, well, it's me
0 hangovers (at least for my wife and I; others in our group might have been a bit rough after the party lol)

Outstanding!!   Cioppino is a personal fav.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 20, 2022, 06:19:07 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 20, 2022, 04:51:03 PM

We're professionals.

Anyone got tips or apps on managing a wine cellar / collection? In our wine fridge we often don't really know what we have; particularly the bottles on the back half of a shelf.

Lady at one of the wineries suggested the CellarTracker app, but I figured I'd ask you guys too.

My friends use Cellartracker and like it.  I don't.  Maybe I should, I keep it up, somewhere.

I used to be more organized, but I used to have a lot more wine than I do now.  We're headed to Cincy early in April and several friends are hosting dinners for us, I told them I'd bring wine, I have a travel suitcase for it, and look forward to sharing some zingers.  I have two bottles left of Steltzner Reserve, which is among the best wine I've ever had.  And some Regusci, which is superb.

I happened across a photo of freshman Terry Hoague blocking an ND field goal that somewhat turned that 1980(1) Sugar Bowl around.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 20, 2022, 06:39:11 PM

https://www.dispatch.com/story/sports/2022/03/20/ohio-state-womens-hockey-buckeyes-win-national-championship/7103680001/

(https://i.imgur.com/F9lSDif.png)
STATE COLLEGE, Pa. — Kenzie Hauswirth scored with 6:40 remaining and the Ohio State women's hockey team defeated Minnesota Duluth 3-2 to win the NCAA championship on Sunday.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 20, 2022, 09:25:47 PM

Does Kenzie have good wine???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 21, 2022, 07:35:01 AM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=249&v=x7m_T5MX8NQ&feature=emb_logo

Cadillac Blackwing v Shelby GT 500 in an interesting type of race. 

Got mine Wednesday.  Been having some serious fun on the nearby remote roads in “ Mexico”.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 21, 2022, 07:38:05 AM

Sub Base Kings Bay Keeping Current Ohio Subs Ready, Prepping for Incoming Columbia Class - USNI News (https://news.usni.org/2020/08/03/sub-base-kings-bay-keeping-current-ohio-subs-ready-prepping-for-incoming-columbia-class)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 21, 2022, 07:44:02 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 20, 2022, 04:32:31 PM

Final Paso Robles tally...

6 wineries visited
1 badass wine club party (so technically 7 wineries?)
27 bottles of wine purchased to bring home

I usaually go with the Brothers Gallo - Earnest & Julio 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 21, 2022, 08:19:06 AM

I've mentioned before the Costco Kirkland Cab box wine, it's amazing for the price, $13 for 3 L around here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 21, 2022, 10:41:47 AM

We're headed out for a short vacation to see two botanical gardens, one in Gainesville and the other in Athens, where we'll overnight.  I haven't stayed ON in Athens since I left.  I'll show the wife around a bit, though she's been there before, to a game even.

She doesn't quite have the rules down.  Neither do I.  Are they going to the DH now?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2022, 10:49:49 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 21, 2022, 07:35:01 AM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=249&v=x7m_T5MX8NQ&feature=emb_logo

Cadillac Blackwing v Shelby GT 500 in an interesting type of race.

Got mine Wednesday.  Been having some serious fun on the nearby remote roads in “ Mexico”.

That's a bad ass car you got there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 21, 2022, 10:50:18 AM

Meet the Boeing X-32 Stealth Fighter: It Could Have Replaced the F-35 - 19FortyFive (https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/03/meet-the-boeing-x-32-stealth-fighter-it-could-have-replaced-the-f-35/?fbclid=IwAR0vcZQXaoHYEcKndAM_oIV738fp7rLL2b-6zUo1_qe3Eyb0ccsaIaT74ew)

(https://i.imgur.com/Zx6mH5m.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 21, 2022, 10:51:19 AM

The GT500 might be the fastest car on a track for anywhere near the money, currently.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 21, 2022, 11:11:47 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 21, 2022, 10:50:18 AM

Meet the Boeing X-32 Stealth Fighter: It Could Have Replaced the F-35 - 19FortyFive (https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/03/meet-the-boeing-x-32-stealth-fighter-it-could-have-replaced-the-f-35/?fbclid=IwAR0vcZQXaoHYEcKndAM_oIV738fp7rLL2b-6zUo1_qe3Eyb0ccsaIaT74ew)

(https://i.imgur.com/Zx6mH5m.jpg)

that is bad ass! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 21, 2022, 11:18:05 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 21, 2022, 08:19:06 AM

I've mentioned before the Costco Kirkland Cab box wine, it's amazing for the price, $13 for 3 L around here.
 

I've found that pretty much anything from Costco's Kirkland brand is a f***king excellent, high quality product. I've never bought something Kirkland brand that wasn't top notch, especially for the price.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 21, 2022, 11:22:45 AM

The Kirkland box chardonnay is not to my liking.  But to get something decent costs more of course.

It's quaffable but not transcendent.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2022, 11:24:43 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 21, 2022, 11:18:05 AM

I've found that pretty much anything from Costco's Kirkland brand is a f***king excellent, high quality product. I've never bought something Kirkland brand that wasn't top notch, especially for the price.

Yeah. We just gave up on Sam's and joined Costco. Sam's sucks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 21, 2022, 11:25:19 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 21, 2022, 08:19:06 AM

I've mentioned before the Costco Kirkland Cab box wine, it's amazing for the price, $13 for 3 L around here.

Yeah, quite good. Their chardonnay and pinot grigio are also good. I think we have a box of the cab that probably needs to get consumed soon...

And the boxes are great because they don't go bad once "opened". Since they're in a sealed bag that doesn't take on air, they don't get oxidized or spoiled. So a glass at a time over a week or more is fine.

That said, I'm generally picking beer over cab or pinot grigio, and I don't really like chard all that much. I keep my wife well stocked with chard from a BevMo house brand called Unruly (13.95 but it's on their 5c wine sale, so works out to $7/bottle) that she likes. We have a lot of low to mid price bottles in rotation for when she's drinking wine and I'm drinking beer, which is most of the time. 

Most of what we bought from Paso will only be opened when we're cooking something awesome and want a nice bottle of wine to go with it, in which case I'll do wine instead of beer. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 21, 2022, 11:25:51 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2022, 11:24:43 AM

Yeah. We just gave up on Sam's and joined Costco. Sam's sucks.

Sam's is terrible lol. Everything Walmart is terrible though lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 21, 2022, 11:30:14 AM

Both chardonnay and pinot noir "benefit" a lot from paying more, in my opinion.  I can better tolerate an inexpensive merlot or cab.  But few of us are able to crack open a hundred dollar pinot on a whim.  I had some DRCs way way back but I had not developed a taste for pinot at that point.  They get insanely pricey of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 21, 2022, 11:31:03 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 21, 2022, 11:18:05 AM

I've found that pretty much anything from Costco's Kirkland brand is a f***king excellent, high quality product. I've never bought something Kirkland brand that wasn't top notch, especially for the price.

I got a couple boxes of Kirkland golf balls online
played with one yesterday
seemed very good for the $$$

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 21, 2022, 11:47:09 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 21, 2022, 11:30:14 AM

Both chardonnay and pinot noir "benefit" a lot from paying more, in my opinion.  I can better tolerate an inexpensive merlot or cab.  But few of us are able to crack open a hundred dollar pinot on a whim.  I had some DRCs way way back but I had not developed a taste for pinot at that point.  They get insanely pricey of course.

My issue with Chard is that when you start getting into big, buttery chard, I'm out. Which IMHO is what happens when the price point goes up. 

For a white wine I prefer something more crisp and clean. 

Same for me with cab. When you get a big, oaky, Napa cab, it's just not my thing. I love some good zin, or syrah, but the big cabs that everyone else oohs and aahs over aren't my style. 

Quote from: FearlessF on March 21, 2022, 11:31:03 AM

I got a couple boxes of Kirkland golf balls online
played with one yesterday
seemed very good for the $$$

https://mygolfspy.com/best-golf-balls-2021/

You can't beat the Kirkland for the price, but they are severe outliers for spin rate. That can rob distance for most players--albeit can be helpful for a player without a lot of speed who needs the spin to keep the ball in the air with the driver. 

I was playing Kirkland for a while but after that ball test came out, switched to the Snell MTB-X. It's a more middle-of-the-road ball which I think works well since my swing is pretty middle-of-the-road regarding speed (~100mph driver). It's a DTC ball that you can get for $31/doz in bulk, and it comes in yellow, which is easy to see. I still get more than enough spin off the irons to stop it on the greens I play. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 21, 2022, 11:54:45 AM

I've got too much spin with the driver, maybe not the ball for me.

Why I have the Rogue Sub Zero

I like the kirkland around the greens

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 21, 2022, 11:57:11 AM

bought some Kirkland king bed sheets that were like amazing. And haven't bought it in a minute because I haven't been to Costco in awhile but they had some amazing parmagiano-reggiano cheese from Italy- especially for the price. Hope that's still the case.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2022, 12:01:56 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 21, 2022, 11:57:11 AM

bought some Kirkland king bed sheets that were like amazing. And haven't bought it in a minute because I haven't been to Costco in awhile but they had some amazing parmagiano-reggiano cheese from Italy- especially for the price. Hope that's still the case.

If you want amazing sheets, My Pillow is the place. Pillows are awesome too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 21, 2022, 12:07:50 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 21, 2022, 11:57:11 AM

bought some Kirkland king bed sheets that were like amazing. And haven't bought it in a minute because I haven't been to Costco in awhile but they had some amazing parmagiano-reggiano cheese from Italy- especially for the price. Hope that's still the case.

Yeah, we occasionally get wedges of that cheese or the romano--their romano is great in cacio e pepe. 

Never tried the sheets. We have a cal king so it's often harder to find. But I'll have to keep a look out, as we're going to replace our comforter later this month and it'll probably be time for new sheets too. 

Even our dog loves Kirkland stuff--that's where we buy his food :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 21, 2022, 12:08:24 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 21, 2022, 11:11:47 AM

that is bad ass!

The defense industry is ass is just as morally bankrupt as the left.The inflated amount charged and the  Criminal misrepresentation made with the intent of defrauding the treasury and people

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2022, 12:09:30 PM

California Kings are longer, but narrower, correct?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 21, 2022, 12:15:43 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2022, 12:09:30 PM

California Kings are longer, but narrower, correct?

Yep...

King: 76W x 80L
Cal King: 72W x 84L

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 21, 2022, 12:30:25 PM

There is a booth at the State Fair of Texas that sells the best sheets, i kid you not.  We grab a new set every couple of years when we're up there for the TX-OU game.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2022, 01:01:27 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 21, 2022, 12:15:43 PM

Yep...

King: 76W x 80L
Cal King: 72W x 84L

So it's true that people in California are taller and skinnier.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 21, 2022, 01:06:37 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2022, 01:01:27 PM

So it's true that people in California are taller and skinnier.

I'm one of those.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 21, 2022, 07:41:46 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2022, 01:01:27 PM

So it's true that people in California are taller and skinnier.

No, that's Denmark.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 21, 2022, 09:09:52 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 21, 2022, 07:41:46 PM

No, that's Denmark.

Norway and Sweden too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 21, 2022, 10:06:47 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 21, 2022, 12:30:25 PM

There is a booth at the State Fair of Texas that sells the best sheets, i kid you not.  We grab a new set every couple of years when we're up there for the TX-OU game.

along with some wax paper cups of cheap beer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 21, 2022, 10:43:44 PM

Gotta love an ignorant clickbait ad...
(https://i.imgur.com/Ur3xfJH.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 22, 2022, 08:40:12 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 21, 2022, 09:09:52 PM

Norway and Sweden too.

Netherlands too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 22, 2022, 08:41:35 AM

Just got back from the grocery store and gas station. Holy crap.

I feel bad for people on fixed incomes (like my wife) or those living check to check.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 22, 2022, 08:46:13 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 22, 2022, 08:41:35 AM

Just got back from the grocery store and gas station. Holy crap.

I feel bad for people on fixed incomes (like my wife) or those living check to check.

It’s bad.  Unfortunately- most signs point to it getting worse 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 22, 2022, 09:01:22 AM

gas is down a bit here

Groceries are not

guess I'll go to work this morning

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 22, 2022, 09:32:31 AM

I think gas is down about a nickel here.  So, many thanks to President Biden. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 22, 2022, 09:40:09 AM

Not funny but those adventageous petrol pricks are to blame.Just stopping passing policy for electric until it's actually practical

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 22, 2022, 09:44:24 AM

Groceries and gas seeming to go down here. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 22, 2022, 09:46:43 AM

Gas is down - a little - but it will go back up very soon.

Groceries are ridiculous.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 22, 2022, 10:08:32 AM

Groceries seem to be holding steady here, at least on vegetables/whole foods.  We buy almost zero prepackaged stuff so I can't comment on that.

Beef was already sky-high and that hasn't changed but at least it hasn't gotten worse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 22, 2022, 11:06:12 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 22, 2022, 09:32:31 AM

I think gas is down about a nickel here.  So, many thanks to President Biden. :)

Saudis could end this by ramping production up and getting OPEC to go along with them. The largest state owned oil company in Saudi Arabia, Saudi Aramco made $49 billion in profits in 2020. They made $110 billion in profits in 2021.

They don't have much incentive to right now as they are making a shitload of money, and they also openly hate Biden- who really did it to himself by flapping his stupid gums about "making them a pariah", "reassessing our relationship", he publicly blamed MbS for killing of Khashoggi, he also vowed to end US support for Saudis war in Yemen (he hasn't), he vowed to stop selling them weapons (he hasn't), and he vowed to re-enter the Obama Iran nuclear deal (Saudis don't want this, obviously). Not to mention when Biden got into office he flatly refused to even speak to the crown prince of Saudi Arabia, MbS on the phone for over a year.

Sorry, can't publicly treat Saudis like a dickhead and then privately be a dickhead by refusing their calls and then come begging them to pump oil like a little bitch when you need the price to go down so your party won't get wiped out in the midterms and you can have some sort of W when your Presidency has been nothing but L's and it looks like you're gonna be 1 termer.

Guy did it to himself. If you're an asshole towards another country, don't expect them to jump through hoops to do you a favor.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 22, 2022, 11:27:07 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/pxwFAly.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 22, 2022, 11:42:54 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/ZG9Pvvz.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 22, 2022, 12:35:47 PM

This is where I live and play.

(https://i.imgur.com/osU5OCq.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 22, 2022, 12:36:48 PM

over 13,000 babies in Afghanistan have died of malnutrition in 2022 alone. We're not even 3 months into 2022. 95% of the Afghan population does not have enough food to eat, and over 3.5 million children need nutritional support. Acute hunger has doubled since just last July alone, and 99% of households headed by women in that country are facing acute hunger. 

About a month ago Biden stole $7 billion of Afghan central bank reserves via executive order just because. A country that was already on the brink of starvation that has a GDP of less than $20 billion a year and a population of nearly 40 million people- and he just steals their money. 

US needs to give that money back and they need to remove all sanctions. Immediately. This is disgusting. Not bad enough we bombed the f**k out of that country for 20 years and occupied it for 20 years. Disgusting. Reminds me of the pure evil of that infamous 60 Minutes interview with Madeleine Albright when she was asked by the interviewer if the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children due to starvation and disease due to the draconian sanctions US placed on Iraq were worth it- and she said "yes, we think it's worth it". There is a special place in hell for people like that.


https://www.vox.com/2022/1/22/22896235/afghanistan-poverty-famine-winter-humanitarian-crisis-sanctions

https://cepr.net/us-sanctions-on-afghanistan-could-be-deadlier-than-20-years-of-war/ 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DM1WXY0n29w

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 22, 2022, 01:28:10 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/fQOUcgH.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 22, 2022, 01:29:02 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/attcLI3.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 22, 2022, 01:29:32 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/b0cwe9B.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 22, 2022, 01:30:28 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/1MkMpzz.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 22, 2022, 01:33:26 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/zwYUpeX.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 22, 2022, 01:51:35 PM

Just ordered this from the site. It's for my Son, who served in 'Stan a few times.

(https://i.imgur.com/gnQTDnz.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 22, 2022, 02:04:44 PM

The Babylon Bee - whom I'm not really fan of - as a) I don't really think much they put out is funny or clever and b) they are a right-wing christian satire website (not my wing, nor my religion) - suspended by twitter for making a satire tweet about transgender Biden administration official Rachel Levine- being Man of the Year. Twitter says they will re-instate the account when Babylon Bee deletes the tweet. Babylon Bee says they are dying on the hill, and won't delete the tweet. Good for them. 

F**k twitter. Seriously. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 22, 2022, 02:21:57 PM

Twitter takes itself way too seriously.  Who do they think they are, Facebook???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 22, 2022, 02:35:16 PM

I saw that piece and I thought it was hilarious. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 22, 2022, 03:16:19 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 22, 2022, 02:21:57 PM

Twitter takes itself way too seriously.  Who do they think they are, Facebook???

for real lol. I don't know why these companies were given legal immunity from lawsuits if they weren't going to you know- actually use it. The censorship crap they're doing has really just appeared all of sudden- really in just the last 4-5 years (post-Trump winning an election). Seems like Trump won- broke every "liberal" or democrat brain in America and then they decide to go nuclear with the censorship. Twitter is a joke- they're going to censor this and then meanwhile they happily let pornstars and onlyfans whores post pics and videos all day long spreading their assholes and taking you know-what shots to the face. And this is what they censor. Makes no sense.

Twitter can actually be useful in finding out breaking news/info fast. FB is pretty much useless except for advertising products and services and selling crap on their market place.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 22, 2022, 03:20:54 PM

Twitter is a cesspool. Facebook is aggravating. I don't partake of either. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 22, 2022, 03:55:56 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 22, 2022, 03:20:54 PM

Twitter is a cesspool. Facebook is aggravating. I don't partake of either.

I don't either. I've never actually posted/used either platform. But I have found Twitter to be pretty great at finding out breaking info fast and links to article from news sites when following journalists/thinkers. It's pretty handy. There just happens to be a lot of dickface retards on there unfortunately.

Facebook - I've only ever used to run ads (paid someone to do that, haven't actually done it myself) and I've actually sold some stuff off their marketplace. Cabinets for $26k, a gas range for $6k, and another set of cabinets for $8k- all showroom display stuff and not sure I'd have been able to sell any of that crap without it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 22, 2022, 05:05:20 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 22, 2022, 03:55:56 PM

I don't either. I've never actually posted/used either platform. 

Thought I was the last of the hold outs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 22, 2022, 05:33:36 PM

I like Facebook.  Makes it super-quick and easy to stay in touch with relatives, show them pictures of the kids, etc.-- without having to spend hours on the phone or writing letters.

It's easy to tune out the BS.  I'm actually amused by it.

Almost as amused as I am by people on internet message boards that think they're going to change someone else's mind by arguing incessantly with them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 22, 2022, 05:39:10 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 22, 2022, 05:33:36 PM

I like Facebook.  Makes it super-quick and easy to stay in touch with relatives, show them pictures of the kids, etc.-- without having to spend hours on the phone or writing letters.

It's easy to tune out the BS.  I'm actually amused by it.

Almost as amused as I am by people on internet message boards that think they're going to change someone else's mind by arguing incessantly with them.

you're a nicer guy than I. I purposely don't have facebook so I don't have to stay in touch with relatives :) 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 22, 2022, 05:43:19 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 22, 2022, 05:33:36 PM

I like Facebook.  Makes it super-quick and easy to stay in touch with relatives, show them pictures of the kids, etc.-- without having to spend hours on the phone or writing letters.

It's easy to tune out the BS.  I'm actually amused by it.

Almost as amused as I am by people on internet message boards that think they're going to change someone else's mind by arguing incessantly with them.

At least here on a message board we use actual, ya know, arguments.

The Facebook level of debate rarely moves beyond memes. 

Which is why I deleted my account a few years ago. I didn't want to argue with anyone, because it'd be useless. I just wanted to punch them. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 22, 2022, 05:44:50 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 22, 2022, 05:39:10 PM

you're a nicer guy than I. I purposely don't have facebook so I don't have to stay in touch with relatives :)

I'm a helluva nice guy.  The cnnsi.com message boards voted me the 1999 Internet Good Guy.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 22, 2022, 05:47:08 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 22, 2022, 05:39:10 PM

you're a nicer guy than I. I purposely don't have facebook so I don't have to stay in touch with relatives :)

After some family drama, my wife asked me on Sunday "Do you feel bad about the fact that you don't have a good relationship with your family?"

Me: "Nope."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 22, 2022, 05:49:37 PM

I get along well with my family, and my inlaws too. I just don't want to spend all my time on the phone with them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 22, 2022, 06:55:33 PM

The only reason I use facebook is to keep tabs on family happenings

I dont join in discussions but kind of observe from afar

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 22, 2022, 07:01:08 PM

I could stay in touch and keep tabs on family happenings...

...but I don't care. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 22, 2022, 07:04:43 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 22, 2022, 07:01:08 PM

I could stay in touch and keep tabs on family happenings...

...but I don't care.

well then you wont be in anyone's will and nobody's going to your funeral so there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 22, 2022, 07:08:06 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 22, 2022, 07:04:43 PM

well then you wont be in anyone's will and nobody's going to your funeral so there

They ain't got sh!t to leave me lol...

I'm trying to do better with my kids though, so they'll come to my funeral. I hope. If not, I'll be dead and, well, won't care. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 22, 2022, 07:38:57 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 22, 2022, 05:43:19 PM

At least here on a message board we use actual, ya know, arguments.

speak for yerself

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 22, 2022, 07:39:46 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 22, 2022, 05:44:50 PM

I'm a helluva nice guy.  The cnnsi.com message boards voted me the 1999 Internet Good Guy. 

over a decade ago like the last Husker conference championship

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 22, 2022, 07:58:33 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 22, 2022, 07:39:46 PM

over a decade ago like the last Husker conference championship

hey man, it can happen. look at Michigan last year. fingers crossed for the Husker faithful it happens for them soon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 22, 2022, 08:13:22 PM

College football is more better when Nebraska is good......running the option.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 22, 2022, 08:41:21 PM

NIT with Bonnie and virginny is pretty good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2022, 06:21:42 AM

I like Facebook just fine, use it daily.  Not Twitter, don't know much about it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2022, 06:53:01 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/PVKoUxP.png)

Pretty neat town, ville of this name.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2022, 06:53:36 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/z1xmeQv.jpg)

Spring is just starting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2022, 07:56:11 AM

Midtown's oldest private home sells—for a record price | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/midtown-oldest-home-sells-record-price-piedmont-avenue)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 23, 2022, 08:47:23 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 22, 2022, 05:05:20 PM

Thought I was the last of the hold outs

I used to have book face, but I cancelled them when they cancelled the POTUS.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 23, 2022, 09:04:49 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 22, 2022, 05:05:20 PM

Thought I was the last of the hold outs

I'm with you on that. Never had either and most likely never will. I don't need that kind of drama in my life. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2022, 09:19:52 AM

If you find facebook troublesome, then yeah, forget twitter, it's 10x worse.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2022, 09:20:33 AM

I might be too easy going, my wife says I am.  Little troubles me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 23, 2022, 10:00:07 AM

Perhaps you can have a chat with Congress and the Corporate 1 percenters

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2022, 10:25:58 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 23, 2022, 09:04:49 AM

I'm with you on that. Never had either and most likely never will. I don't need that kind of drama in my life.

it's only dramatic if you allow it to be

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on March 23, 2022, 10:26:13 AM

Nothing wrong with Twitter. I use it to follow sports and science stories. It’s just like every other internet medium. Drops of good info in a sea of self serving bullshit. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2022, 10:31:22 AM

I derive some benefit from FB, so I use it.  I am aware of some of their general policies that don't impact my use of it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2022, 11:17:22 AM

On March 1, 2022, Iowa Governor Kim Reynolds signed into law what has commonly been referred to as a flat tax for Iowa.  Much attention focused on the reduction of the top current personal income tax rate of 8.53% to 3.9% in 2026. Though the bill impacts personal income tax rates, many other parts of the bill may generate tax savings, too.

Retirement income now exempt in Iowa
One feature of the new bill will benefit virtually all of Iowa's more “seasoned citizens.” The bill would exempt from Iowa state income tax all “retirement income” for those age 55 or older, including the recipient or their spouse's Individual Retirement Accounts (IRAs), pension plans, or annuities. (Sort of makes you look forward to getting old).


______________________________________

sine the winters are getting warmer and taxes will be less...

Maybe I won't move to utee's hood

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 23, 2022, 11:31:54 AM

Atta boy enjoy the season's,we can swap Sno-Blower repair tips.And if Badger Fan ever gets that Great Lake finished like he said maybe Ice Fishing also 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2022, 11:33:47 AM

We get $130 K from retirement income here in GA free of state income tax (couples).  I figure if we had zero state income tax, they'd get revenues from other sources (me).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2022, 11:53:57 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 23, 2022, 11:31:54 AM

Atta boy enjoy the season's,we can swap Sno-Blower repair tips.And if Badger Fan ever gets that Great Lake finished like he said maybe Ice Fishing also

less than 5 inches of snow total this winter so far

it's a record
of course we can get walloped in early April

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 23, 2022, 01:38:31 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 23, 2022, 11:53:57 AM

less than 5 inches of snow total this winter so far

it's a record
of course we can get walloped in early April

Heck, we got more than that last winter down here in Central Texico!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 23, 2022, 03:47:13 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 22, 2022, 12:36:48 PM

over 13,000 babies in Afghanistan have died of malnutrition in 2022 alone. We're not even 3 months into 2022. 95% of the Afghan population does not have enough food to eat, and over 3.5 million children need nutritional support. Acute hunger has doubled since just last July alone, and 99% of households headed by women in that country are facing acute hunger.

About a month ago Biden stole $7 billion of Afghan central bank reserves via executive order just because. A country that was already on the brink of starvation that has a GDP of less than $20 billion a year and a population of nearly 40 million people- and he just steals their money.

US needs to give that money back and they need to remove all sanctions. Immediately. This is disgusting. Not bad enough we bombed the f**k out of that country for 20 years and occupied it for 20 years. Disgusting. Reminds me of the pure evil of that infamous 60 Minutes interview with Madeleine Albright when she was asked by the interviewer if the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children due to starvation and disease due to the draconian sanctions US placed on Iraq were worth it- and she said "yes, we think it's worth it". There is a special place in hell for people like that.


https://www.vox.com/2022/1/22/22896235/afghanistan-poverty-famine-winter-humanitarian-crisis-sanctions

https://cepr.net/us-sanctions-on-afghanistan-could-be-deadlier-than-20-years-of-war/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DM1WXY0n29w

Prophetic, I guess. She's headed there right now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2022, 06:10:28 PM

My wife is listening to a zoom meeting of the HOA annual seance.  I brought her some prosecco.  She was laughing, on mute, about some of the absurd things some owners are saying, one lady apparently dominating the discussion.

I could not stand it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2022, 06:19:30 PM

The Copenhagen Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics | by Aadarsh shrestha | Mar, 2022 | Cantor’s Paradise (cantorsparadise.com) (https://www.cantorsparadise.com/the-copenhagen-interpretation-of-quantum-mechanics-cc55571db97e)

The archetypal example is an electron in an atom. Electrons can, for some calculations, be thought of as if (that caveat) they are in orbits which correspond to different amounts of energy. When an atom emits energy in the form of light, an electron disappears from one orbit and appears in another orbit closer to the nucleus of the atom. When an atom absorbs light, an electron disappears from one orbit and appears in one further out from the nucleus of the atom. But it does not move from one orbit to the other. First it is here, then it is there. This is known as a quantum jump (or a quantum leap (*contrary to what advertisers think, a quantum leap is a very small change made at random.)

Schrödinger intended his wave mechanics to explain what happens during the leap, but it didn’t, and he said: ‘If all this damned quantum jumping were really here to stay, I should be sorry I ever got involved with quantum theory.’ Alas for Schrödinger, it was, and is, here to stay. The matrix approach is more honest, since it does not pretend to try to tell us what is happening between state A and state B, but it provides less solace than the Schrödinger equation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 23, 2022, 06:36:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 23, 2022, 06:10:28 PM

My wife is listening to a zoom meeting of the HOA annual seance.  I brought her some prosecco.  She was laughing, on mute, about some of the absurd things some owners are saying, one lady apparently dominating the discussion.

I could not stand it.

living in neighborhoods with HOA's are the worst. unfortunately in Florida that's almost unavoidable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 23, 2022, 06:38:06 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 23, 2022, 03:47:13 PM

Prophetic, I guess. She's headed there right now.

May she rot in hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tihL1lMLL0

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2022, 06:40:12 PM

Our actual HOA board is pretty decent.  My wife told me this was not the annual meeting as I thought, it was on a special very weird situation.

Obviously in a condo building with 100+ units, you have no other option but to have an HOA.  I'm told we're awash in money.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2022, 06:40:44 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 23, 2022, 06:10:28 PM

My wife is listening to a zoom meeting of the HOA annual seance.  I brought her some prosecco.  She was laughing, on mute, about some of the absurd things some owners are saying, one lady apparently dominating the discussion.

I could not stand it.

I'm surprised prosecco was strong enough for her to listen to an HOA call!

We had an HOA when I lived in GA. It was pretty chill. There was one guy who DESPERATELY wanted to be part of the HOA governing committee, and there was an unspoken understanding from everyone in the neighborhood that under no circumstances should he ever be allowed to... Sounds like that lady got enough votes, unlike our guy. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2022, 06:48:07 PM

The lady was not on the board, just an owner.  We had a strange situation here recently, some minor drama, and many felt the need to express their angst so they had a special meeting to air it out.  Tempest tea pot etc.

I cannot stand these things.  I talk to the head of the HOA on occasion, he lives down the hall, he's pretty good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 23, 2022, 06:48:27 PM

hard to argue. There are 195 countries in the world. China and India combined have 2.782 billion people. Roughly 36% of the worlds population in these two countries. The other 64% of the worlds population is in the other 193 countries.

Not to mention Saudi Arabia seems to be getting cozy with Russia/China and telling the US to eff off. Has American foreign policy ever been this weak on the worlds stage? I don't think so. It's unfathomable to me that US client state of 70+ years- Saudi Arabia refused calls from an American President.

https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1505202467771985925?s=20&t=_PyT9GD9j6rspDUF7maDFw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2022, 06:53:07 PM

I don't think it really matters, and I don't see that Biden is the root cause anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 23, 2022, 06:58:33 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 23, 2022, 06:53:07 PM

I don't think it really matters, and I don't see that Biden is the root cause anyway.

Uh yeah, it really does matter.

China is the only true peer competitor to the US in the entire world and it's growing stronger by the day and it will soon overtake the US as the worlds largest economy. India has the 6th largest GDP in the world and it's economy is projected to vault all the way to #3 in the world and overtake Japan by 2030, and it's population will grow before long to overtake China and become the most populous country in the world. These countries are both moving away from the US right now, not closer to them.

And this Saudia Arabia shit is UNFATHOMABLE. Like jaw dropping, astounding really - and Biden is 100% the root cause of that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2022, 07:02:44 PM

I personally do not think it really matters, nor do I think Biden is responsible for everything that goes bad here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2022, 07:03:43 PM

That's sure to ruffle some feathers here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2022, 07:08:42 PM

Well, I've lived through a lot, and when I was 20 or so, I tended to think everything was MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR, end of the world kind of stuff.  OMG and all that.

Then, five years later, meh.  Life goes on.

The first loan for which I applied had an interest rate of 17.5%.  Gas cost about the same as today adjusted for inflation.  We were in a double dip recession.  Some movie star was President.  The russkis were rattlings sabres.  Meh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 23, 2022, 07:12:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 23, 2022, 07:08:42 PM

Well, I've lived through a lot, and when I was 20 or so, I tended to think everything was MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR, end of the world kind of stuff.  OMG and all that.

Then, five years later, meh.  Life goes on.

The first loan for which I applied had an interest rate of 17.5%.  Gas cost about the same as today adjusted for inflation.  We were in a double dip recession.  Some movie star was President.  The russkis were rattlings sabres.  Meh.

actually this happened under the Carter Admin and the Gipper helped put the USA back on top

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2022, 07:23:19 PM

No, it didn't, it was 1981, Reagan was President.  I had started my job in June 1980 renting an apartment and found a condo we liked a year later and applied for that loan.

Times were quite unpleasant, stagflation, doubt dip recession, uncertainty about our future, it wasn't good.

We muddled through.  I actually got the condo, got a different loan from the developer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2022, 07:24:44 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/4LdkDFZ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2022, 07:25:08 PM

I'm close to convinced we're headed to another recession this year, a bad one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 23, 2022, 07:38:02 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 23, 2022, 07:02:44 PM

I personally do not think it really matters, nor do I think Biden is responsible for everything that goes bad here.

Not really blaming Biden for China and India both moving away from the US, but then again he does not appear to be helping matters much there.

Saudis moving away from US is a huge deal, and I can pretty much guarantee you in the 70+ year relationship with the kingdom- you've NEVER had a Saudi ruler refuse to pick up the phone when an American President called. That is shocking. And it's 100% the fault of the guy in charge. And it is a pretty huge deal so long as they are an extremely close US ally/client state, the entire world economic system is tied to the US dollar, the world economy/economic engine is run on crude oil and the US dollar is tied to crude oil, and the Saudis reign supreme in the world of crude oil.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 23, 2022, 07:42:07 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 23, 2022, 07:25:08 PM

I'm close to convinced we're headed to another recession this year, a bad one.

Not sure what's going to happen. Lot of crazy stuff going on in the world.

housing market appears stronger than ever. record low mortgage delinquencies and foreclosures. Record low inventory on MLS databases. THROUGH the roof prices. Tons of people paying cash money and over asking price. Great time to build spec homes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 23, 2022, 07:44:37 PM

oh man this is so true lmao....you can also add US mess up - they wind up on cable news 

https://twitter.com/MaxAbrahms/status/1506738826806444040?s=20&t=LtOUnB2HtUFYkSMfVvOZZg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2022, 07:55:20 PM

Sometimes folks dramatize things that are fairly minor.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2022, 07:59:19 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 23, 2022, 07:08:42 PM

Well, I've lived through a lot, and when I was 20 or so, I tended to think everything was MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR, end of the world kind of stuff.  OMG and all that.

Then, five years later, meh.  Life goes on.

The first loan for which I applied had an interest rate of 17.5%.  Gas cost about the same as today adjusted for inflation.  We were in a double dip recession.  Some movie star was President.  The russkis were rattlings sabres.  Meh.

Eh... I'm with you, and I'm not... 

Climate change might not be a big deal. In fact, it might be beneficial. But those who don't worry about it discount the fact that it could also be an extinction-level event. I.e. not that every human on earth dies, but it destabilizes our entire ecosystem to the point where 95% of species go extinct and [a small number of] humans only survive because we have big brains. 

Most of politics is transitory and meaningless in the long-term sense. But the stability of the petrodollar and the USD as the world's reserve currency is important, and losing that would cause a worldwide financial destabilization probably unlike anything the world has ever seen, given how advanced and interconnected we are. 

It's easy to think "five years later... life goes on" because nothing for most of our lifetimes has threatened that... That doesn't mean it won't happen. It doesn't mean it will, either, but discounting the idea that it won't isn't giving the black swan type events their due. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2022, 08:03:11 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 23, 2022, 07:42:07 PM

Not sure what's going to happen. Lot of crazy stuff going on in the world.

housing market appears stronger than ever. record low mortgage delinquencies and foreclosures. Record low inventory on MLS databases. THROUGH the roof prices. Tons of people paying cash money and over asking price. Great time to build spec homes.

Yeah... Have incomes gone up 100% in the last 5 years? Enough to justify prices going up 100% in the last 5 years? 

What happens to that market if there's a recession? 

Agreed with you that it's a great time to build spec homes. Disagree with you that it's a great time to be holding the mortgages on those spec homes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 23, 2022, 08:27:36 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2022, 08:03:11 PM

Yeah... Have incomes gone up 100% in the last 5 years? Enough to justify prices going up 100% in the last 5 years?

What happens to that market if there's a recession?

Agreed with you that it's a great time to build spec homes. Disagree with you that it's a great time to be holding the mortgages on those spec homes.

with the housing market, it's simple supply and demand. there is literally no supply meanwhile there is huge demand in places like Texas and Sun Belt as people are fleeing California and the Midwest and Northeast in record numbers.

And I'd say we're kind of in a recession right now and still recovering from COVID, forced shutdowns, supply chain disruptions, 40-year record inflation- and the home prices still surging. 

Housing market being hot right now is for completely different reasons which caused the crash in 2008. People aren't getting phony loans, the system isn't being rigged like last go 'round. People are paying straight cash homie, private equity is more involved than ever in purchasing single-family homes as well, and if people are taking out loans to purchase homes they're putting size-able amounts down- banks aren't just lending to anybody with a first and last name and pumping out garbage loans. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2022, 08:38:05 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 23, 2022, 08:27:36 PM

with the housing market, it's simple supply and demand. there is literally no supply meanwhile there is huge demand in places like Texas and Sun Belt as people are fleeing California and the Midwest and Northeast in record numbers.

And I'd say we're kind of in a recession right now and still recovering from COVID, forced shutdowns, supply chain disruptions, 40-year record inflation- and the home prices still surging.

Housing market being hot right now is for completely different reasons which caused the crash in 2008. People aren't getting phony loans, the system isn't being rigged like last go 'round. People are paying straight cash homie, private equity is more involved than ever in purchasing single-family homes as well, and if people are taking out loans to purchase homes they're putting size-able amounts down- banks aren't just lending to anybody with a first and last name and pumping out garbage loans.

Yeah, and the market is RED-F$^#&@G-HOT here in California where people are supposedly fleeing too...

It's easy to say "it's different this time"--those are the scariest damn words of any asset bubble in existence. It's the point where smart money flees. 

It's not different this time. The root causes of the next crash won't be the same as the last one--but people can't afford these homes that they're buying... At least not if interest rates spike (and nobody can buy homes) or a recession hits and people need to sell their homes to people that can't buy them because of interest rates. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 23, 2022, 08:40:52 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 23, 2022, 07:23:19 PM

No, it didn't, it was 1981, Reagan was President.  I had started my job in June 1980 renting an apartment and found a condo we liked a year later and applied for that loan.

Times were quite unpleasant, stagflation, doubt dip recession, uncertainty about our future, it wasn't good.

We muddled through.  I actually got the condo, got a different loan from the developer.

Our gas shortage was under the Carter Admin as was most of the recession

They actually had gas rationing 

Within two years after Regan came in taxes were lowered and things got back to normal

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 23, 2022, 10:19:04 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2022, 08:38:05 PM

Yeah, and the market is RED-F$^#&@G-HOT here in California where people are supposedly fleeing too...

It's easy to say "it's different this time"--those are the scariest damn words of any asset bubble in existence. It's the point where smart money flees.

It's not different this time. The root causes of the next crash won't be the same as the last one--but people can't afford these homes that they're buying... At least not if interest rates spike (and nobody can buy homes) or a recession hits and people need to sell their homes to people that can't buy them because of interest rates.

And then I strike. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 23, 2022, 10:22:53 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 23, 2022, 07:44:37 PM

oh man this is so true lmao....you can also add US mess up - they wind up on cable news

https://twitter.com/MaxAbrahms/status/1506738826806444040?s=20&t=LtOUnB2HtUFYkSMfVvOZZg

That outcome for the Russians tends to produce decidedly mediocre to bad militaries. In part because "royal mess ups" tend to not stay in that category, but expand to, "mildly threaten the position of their superior due to competency."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2022, 08:22:55 AM

The outcome for most/many dictatorships is a poor military, Hitler was very prone to firing his best generals, or having them killed.  Bismark handled this aspect well but the German/Prussian army was simply better.  Kings have often feared their top commanders so, in part, they made them dukes and whatnot, or they were dukes, so they could temper their ambitions knowing the top slot was heriditary.  Napoleon's generals had often been sergeants before.  Some were good.

I think Russian leaders tend to feel insecure in their position and are more paranoid than most.  Even paranoids have enemies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 24, 2022, 08:31:49 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 23, 2022, 08:40:52 PM

Our gas shortage was under the Carter Admin as was most of the recession

They actually had gas rationing

Within two years after Regan came in taxes were lowered and things got back to normal

This is how I remembered it too. Took a few years to clean up after the peanut farmer. Still waiting for someone to have the nuts to abolish the Fed department of education.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2022, 08:35:16 AM

The first two years under Reagan were not "fun", folks forget that.  You can of course claim it took him two years to clean up the mess, fine, but I distinctly recall how bad things were.  I was new in my job and many of my peers in school lost theirs over that period in the recessions.  I was glad I had signed on to a fairly stable company.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 24, 2022, 08:49:03 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 24, 2022, 08:35:16 AM

The first two years under Reagan were not "fun", folks forget that.  You can of course claim it took him two years to clean up the mess, fine, but I distinctly recall how bad things were.  I was new in my job and many of my peers in school lost theirs over that period in the recessions.  I was glad I had signed on to a fairly stable company.

Yep, and then 1983 came and interest rates started coming down - FAST - and inflation and unemployment came down. Housing sales from 83 on were in boom category.

It's probably gonna take more than 2 years to clean up the mess we have now, which has taken a little over a year to create - so far.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 24, 2022, 08:57:14 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2022, 08:38:05 PM

Yeah, and the market is RED-F$^#&@G-HOT here in California where people are supposedly fleeing too...

It's easy to say "it's different this time"--those are the scariest damn words of any asset bubble in existence. It's the point where smart money flees.

It's not different this time. The root causes of the next crash won't be the same as the last one--but people can't afford these homes that they're buying... At least not if interest rates spike (and nobody can buy homes) or a recession hits and people need to sell their homes to people that can't buy them because of interest rates.

that's the $64,000 question. how high will interest rates wind up rising? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2022, 09:03:09 AM

My prognosis is stagflation, high interest rates, negative or very low growth in GDP.  The Fed will be late to the trigger and make it worse, they already are.

We've had negative real interest rates for a decade now.  It's a big incentive to borrow and invest.  The recovery from 2008-9 was still on the slow side, but it did last a long time.  GDP growth rates were at a modest level even under Trump.  I think we're about to pay for all that, it could get bad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2022, 09:49:44 AM

Congress has often delegated authorities to the Executive Branch, including the ability to "wage war", as the President is Commander in Chief, and has authority to order the military to do this and that.  The War Powers Act was meant to constrain, and legalize, those authorities, 90 days etc.

Today there often is not time to respond to a military crisis by getting Congress to act.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 24, 2022, 10:41:44 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 23, 2022, 10:19:04 PM

And then I strike.

That's my hope. If I'd have had the financial ability to keep my house when I got divorced in 2016, I'd be sitting on a good $600K+ of equity right now. I could sell and buy a house for cash next door to 94 and not even worry about a mortgage. 

Instead, I sold, and once getting my finances in order post-divorce, the market went thermonuclear and now I can't justify getting into it, despite the fact that I'm in a MUCH better financial position to buy. 

Right now prices are insane because there's very little supply. People who own don't want to sell (especially here in CA) and reset their property taxes due to Prop 13. Selling a house they've got $600K in equity for $900K, to buy a slightly better house for $1.2M, might be something they can afford on the mortgage rate. But to see their property taxes triple makes it a much harder thing to justify. 

But if you hit a tipping point... A recession, high interest rates, or both, there might suddenly be a glut of supply because people need to sell, and prices shoot down. 

Affordability is, and always was, the key. I don't see the current market as affordable if we hit ANY tipping point...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 24, 2022, 11:23:52 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2022, 08:38:05 PM

Yeah, and the market is RED-F$^#&@G-HOT here in California where people are supposedly fleeing too...

Seen any Florida plates in California lately?

I see a TON of the latter here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2022, 11:26:00 AM

‘The housing market is in the early stages of a substantial downshift’: Home sales may drop 25% by the end of summer, according to this analyst

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-housing-market-is-in-the-early-stages-of-a-substantial-downshift-home-sales-may-drop-25-by-the-end-of-summer-according-to-this-analyst-11647884229 (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-housing-market-is-in-the-early-stages-of-a-substantial-downshift-home-sales-may-drop-25-by-the-end-of-summer-according-to-this-analyst-11647884229)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 24, 2022, 11:26:11 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 24, 2022, 10:41:44 AM

That's my hope. If I'd have had the financial ability to keep my house when I got divorced in 2016, I'd be sitting on a good $600K+ of equity right now. I could sell and buy a house for cash next door to 94 and not even worry about a mortgage.

Instead, I sold, and once getting my finances in order post-divorce, the market went thermonuclear and now I can't justify getting into it, despite the fact that I'm in a MUCH better financial position to buy.

Right now prices are insane because there's very little supply. People who own don't want to sell (especially here in CA) and reset their property taxes due to Prop 13. Selling a house they've got $600K in equity for $900K, to buy a slightly better house for $1.2M, might be something they can afford on the mortgage rate. But to see their property taxes triple makes it a much harder thing to justify.

But if you hit a tipping point... A recession, high interest rates, or both, there might suddenly be a glut of supply because people need to sell, and prices shoot down.

Affordability is, and always was, the key. I don't see the current market as affordable if we hit ANY tipping point...

there is literally a record low listings on MLS in Florida. It's never been this low. It's crazy. No one wants to sell their house and cash out. You'd think people would cash out and move somewhere else more affordable, but nope. Holding still. There are shit boxes from the 1940s, 50s, 60s, and 70s on the intercostal that people bought 30-40-50 years ago for nothing that they are still holding on to dear life- when they could sell them for $1.5 to $3 million depending on the neighborhoods/cities- and they are holding still. No one is selling shit. And believe it or not tons of people here buying stuff are from out of state and paying cash. I know someone who just sold a house for $950k - cash - and the guy buying it is from PA - and the house should be worth $650k MAX based on the area/city it's in. Doing work on a house on the intercostal that isn't finished and someone from CA offered the homeowner (the house isn't even listed) $5+ million - CASH - to buy the house as is and finish it. I'm doing work on another house on the intercostal that's nowhere near finished and the homeowner listed it for sale and the buyers are from Canada and paying just under $3 million and are going to change everything and finish it themselves. It's under contract.

There are some counties in Florida where there are 200 or less single-family homes for sale on the MLS in an entire county. Another part contributing to crazy high costs here is that there is almost no land left anywhere- everything is buy and tear down- which takes you a month plus just to get a demo permit. And also to build a house in Florida is not an easy feat, the permits and regulations are among the toughest in the nation. Not like other states where you can get a building permit in a week. Takes 3-4 months minimum, no matter the county or city- and that's if all your shit is on point, together and tight and you hired a good architect. If you hire a shitty architect- could take you a year or more to get that permit. You're not building shit in under a year here.

Lots of people are predicting it's going to last several more years like this here. But again, every market is different. But hey, if it does crash and you get into buying and flipping, be careful homie. I just read that California is proposing to triple taxes on home flippers. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2022, 11:28:34 AM

City of Atlanta rent prices continue trending... downward? | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/rent-apartment-prices-trends-cost-of-living)

Atlanta joins a tiny minority of cities—all of them much smaller metro areas—studied by Rent.com for the March report where one-bedroom rents have decreased year-over-year. Every market saw two-bedroom apartments climb to some degree in the past year.

The City of Atlanta’s one-bedroom rents have dipped by 7.1 percent since early 2021 to $1,542 on average, according to the analysis.
Only four other cities—all of them in the Midwest, led by Kansas City with a decrease of 19.7 percent—landed ahead of (or below) Atlanta.
Meanwhile, two-bedroom prices in Atlanta inched up by .5 percent, to an average of $2,112, or 38th most expensive in the country.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2022, 11:33:16 AM

I got a text yesterday from some stranger wanting to buy our condo, which isn't that unsual, but I hate for my phone number to be in play of course.  I'd probably sell for $4 mil if someone offered (nobody would).  I can't match this location with anything, though there is a unit similar to ours almost on the market here with a much better view.  It was owned by the daughter of Ted Turner back in the day, she did some "unusual" decorating that would need to be torn out.  The view is pretty breathtaking.

We laugh about paying high dollar for a "view" because you'd wake up one morning and find a taller building going up just outside.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2022, 12:30:55 PM

ASO announces first season with Stutzmann at helm (ajc.com) (https://www.ajc.com/things-to-do/aso-announces-first-season-with-stutzmann-at-helm/ZI3K5PY4PVBNTF34NQLGBIMW3U/?fbclid=IwAR02EtR7gyj0W6EkA8dzegH2gsNkA0w2mMcwJdD0Ah8WYnqL75uKeee2zNU)

This could be interesting, I'm not sure what half of this means.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on March 24, 2022, 02:18:57 PM

Sold my 5 bedroom house for almost twice what I paid for it 3 years ago.  Currently building a house half that size for what I originally paid for the 5 bedroom.  Just had the new build appraised for the closing and it is appraised for $150K more than I am paying for it. 

Housing market is ridiculous here in the phoenix area. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 24, 2022, 02:33:48 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 24, 2022, 11:26:00 AM

‘The housing market is in the early stages of a substantial downshift’: Home sales may drop 25% by the end of summer, according to this analyst

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-housing-market-is-in-the-early-stages-of-a-substantial-downshift-home-sales-may-drop-25-by-the-end-of-summer-according-to-this-analyst-11647884229 (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-housing-market-is-in-the-early-stages-of-a-substantial-downshift-home-sales-may-drop-25-by-the-end-of-summer-according-to-this-analyst-11647884229)

That's because there's no supply.

A friend is selling his house, and his agent had SEVENTY SIX showings scheduled before it was in the system for an hour. Suffice to say he's going to make out like gangbusters.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 24, 2022, 02:34:40 PM

Yup, my lesbian roommates broke up, so I had to move.  Now, I'm in a studio for 1100/mo until the summer.  I'll have more time to find something better then.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2022, 02:52:26 PM

Infowars host Alex Jones fails to appear for Sandy Hook deposition | TheHill (https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/599563-infowars-host-alex-jones-fails-to-appear-for-sandy-hook-deposition)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2022, 03:19:43 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/lsv7w2U.png)

The Iowa class had 16" 50 caliber main guns.  The North Carolina and South Dakota classes had 16" 45 caliber main guns.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2022, 04:08:49 PM

      My wine tasting tomorrow .... -->

Pinot Noir from different regions

 
Louis Jadot Bourgogne  2019                                                    $15.99
Wapisa Pinot Noir Argentina 2019                                              $14.99
Hahn S-L-H  2019  Santa Lucia Highlands                                 $18.89
Kirkland Willamette valley  2019                                                $12.99

Pinot noir is French for “pine black”, so named for the grape clusters which form resembling a pine cone.  Of the ten most expensive wines sold each year, pinot is often seven of them, usually from Burgundy (Domaine Romanee Conti subdistrict).  It is difficult to grow and prefers cool nights.  It is the most common varietal grown in Champagne as well as Burgundy (with Chardonnay).
The German term is “blauburgunder”.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2022, 05:07:34 PM

10 Most Expensive Wines in the World - Expensive Red and White Wine (townandcountrymag.com) (https://www.townandcountrymag.com/leisure/drinks/g25839214/most-expensive-wine/)

1Domaine de la Romanée-Conti Romanée-Conti Grand Cru
(https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/3819-0-ori-1547091143.jpeg?crop=0.6666666666666666xw:1xh;center,top&resize=480:*)

(https://pinterest.com/pin/create/button/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.townandcountrymag.com%2Fleisure%2Fdrinks%2Fg25839214%2Fmost-expensive-wine%2F&description=Domaine de la Romanée-Conti Romanée-Conti Grand Cru-)

COURTESY
Average Price: $19,702
Maximum Price: $551,314
The Burgundy producer Domaine Romanée-Conti, known as "DRC" to collectors, consistently commands the highest prices in the world of wine. Its top vineyard, Romanée-Conti, encompasses just 4.5 acres (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-15/most-expensive-bottle-wine-1945-romanee-conti-burgundy-auction).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 24, 2022, 05:30:51 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 24, 2022, 05:07:34 PM

10 Most Expensive Wines in the World - Expensive Red and White Wine (townandcountrymag.com) (https://www.townandcountrymag.com/leisure/drinks/g25839214/most-expensive-wine/)

1Domaine de la Romanée-Conti Romanée-Conti Grand Cru
(https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/3819-0-ori-1547091143.jpeg?crop=0.6666666666666666xw:1xh;center,top&resize=480:*)

(https://pinterest.com/pin/create/button/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.townandcountrymag.com%2Fleisure%2Fdrinks%2Fg25839214%2Fmost-expensive-wine%2F&description=Domaine de la Romanée-Conti Romanée-Conti Grand Cru-)

COURTESY
Average Price: $19,702
Maximum Price: $551,314
The Burgundy producer Domaine Romanée-Conti, known as "DRC" to collectors, consistently commands the highest prices in the world of wine. Its top vineyard, Romanée-Conti, encompasses just 4.5 acres (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-15/most-expensive-bottle-wine-1945-romanee-conti-burgundy-auction).

I'd be interested but I already have five of them in my cellar.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2022, 05:38:09 PM

I'd sell them and buy that Mustang you like

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 24, 2022, 05:56:30 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 24, 2022, 05:38:09 PM

I'd sell them and buy that Mustang you like

While I'm living in Fantasyland, sure, why not????

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2022, 06:34:24 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/O5JsFqj.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 25, 2022, 08:48:56 AM

UPenn, eh?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 25, 2022, 08:57:03 AM

BYU?

or BYOU?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2022, 09:05:44 AM

I wouldn't make much of this ranking of course even though I love rankings of such subjective things.

Click bait in the off season, moderately amusing perhaps.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 25, 2022, 09:05:52 AM

Stop the earth i wanna get off - Un believable they'd even attempt to guage Party Schools.Picking names out of a hat. Did these guys who did the ranking go get smashed/plastered at all of these places? I mean party til you puke like debauched,hedonistic down & outs would do? Even crowned bama in a year they didn't win the football playoffs just to assuage their angst,j/k-j/k

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2022, 09:10:16 AM

Princeton Review ranks three from SEC in Top 20 party schools (saturdaydownsouth.com) (https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/princeton-review-three-sec-top-20-party-schools/)

The 25 Top Party Schools in America (newsweek.com) (https://www.newsweek.com/top-party-schools-america-1619664)

2022 Top Party Schools in America - Niche (https://www.niche.com/colleges/search/top-party-schools/)

Rather different lists really.

It's very akin to "best BBQ joints in the US".  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 25, 2022, 09:10:21 AM

In my experience, if you can't find great parties at ANY university, you ain't tryin'.

I've been to some excellent parties at UT, Texas State, Texas Tech, Texas A&M, Rice, SMU, and TCU.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2022, 09:12:00 AM

No doubt, but the degree of partying probably differs as universities get more akademikcal like.  I bet one could find a nice party at say Georgia Tech, but not many of them relatively.  They also have a rather large Asian population who seem to take studying more seriously than partying.

Ranking is determined by student ratings of alcohol and drug use on campus, the amount of time students spend studying outside of class, and the proportion of students involved in Greek Life (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraternities_and_sororities).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 25, 2022, 09:29:38 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 25, 2022, 09:10:21 AM

In my experience, if you can't find great parties at ANY university, you ain't tryin'.

I've been to some excellent parties at UT, Texas State, Texas Tech, Texas A&M, Rice, SMU, and TCU.

WOFFORD?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 25, 2022, 09:30:58 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 25, 2022, 09:12:00 AM

Ranking is determined by student ratings of alcohol and drug use on campus, the amount of time students spend studying outside of class, and the proportion of students involved in Greek Life (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraternities_and_sororities).

Greek Life? Whoa that's going down a completely different rodent hole

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2022, 09:34:50 AM

Yeah, I suppose, it appears to be "based" on student ratings and their opinions of things.  I infer places with more fraternities rank higher.  That probably is a decent metric.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2022, 10:16:20 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 25, 2022, 09:10:21 AM

In my experience, if you can't find great parties at ANY university, you ain't tryin'.

I've been to some excellent parties at UT, Texas State, Texas Tech, Texas A&M, Rice, SMU, and TCU.

I mean isn't that the #1 goal of college? To party and incur massive amounts of debt.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 25, 2022, 10:28:18 AM

The most debauchery of my life- Thursday at Western Michigan, Friday at Central Michigan and Saturday at MSU, with a couple buds. 

It’s a wonder I survived that weekend. 😳😳🔥🔥.  The parts I remember were pure stupidity.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 25, 2022, 10:33:43 AM

ya can't fix Michigan

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2022, 11:50:02 AM

In February 2010, it was reported that Columbia Pictures (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Pictures) was developing a live-action film adaptation of Harold and the Purple Crayon, to be produced by Smith and James Lassiter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Lassiter), and written by Josh Klausner.^{[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_and_the_Purple_Crayon#cite_note-11)} In December 2016, it was reported that the film would also be written by Dallas Clayton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Clayton).^{[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_and_the_Purple_Crayon#cite_note-12)}

On February 1, 2021, it was reported that Zachary Levi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zachary_Levi) would star in the film, though it was not stated what role he would play. It was also announced that David Guion and Michael Handelman replaced Klausner and Clayton as screenwriters, with John Davis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Davis_(producer)) producing.^{[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_and_the_Purple_Crayon#cite_note-13)} While Zooey Deschanel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zooey_Deschanel) was added in the cast, it was announced director Carlos Saldanha (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Saldanha) is attached to direct the new film.^{[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_and_the_Purple_Crayon#cite_note-14)} The film has set a release date for January 27, 2023.^{[15] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_and_the_Purple_Crayon#cite_note-15)} It will also be Saldanha’s first feature film after working on Blue Sky Studios (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Sky_Studios)' Spies in Disguise (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spies_in_Disguise) in 2019, which after the studio went defunct in 2021, he did not work on another film after that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 25, 2022, 11:55:57 AM

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hEeEqdyzv78/YCNkW2mYsBI/AAAAAAAAOdU/a3JteQ6BQT8ju__BmC-pS-usS6qv-aKsQCLcBGAsYHQ/s640/Actress%2BZooey%2BDeschanel%2Bshowing%2Boff%2Bher%2Bsexy%2Blegs%2B1.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2022, 12:02:11 PM

In the streaming wars news- Amazon is buying MGM for $8.5 billion- obviously to bolster their Prime Video platform and compete with Netflix and Disney+. They now own James Bond. Hope they don't f**k it up and don't do any kind of direct to streaming new Bond movies. Those movies need to be released in theaters first. Daniel Craig did a masterful job rebooting that franchise. Hope they can find someone else to take that mantle up and make some great movies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2022, 12:09:06 PM

57% of U.S. households paid no federal income tax in 2021: Study (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/25/57percent-of-us-households-paid-no-federal-income-tax-in-2021-study.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 25, 2022, 12:22:37 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 25, 2022, 10:28:18 AM

The most debauchery of my life- Thursday at Western Michigan, Friday at Central Michigan and Saturday at MSU, with a couple buds.

It’s a wonder I survived that weekend. 😳😳🔥🔥.  The parts I remember were pure stupidity. 

Ever get buzzed/drunk twice in the same day.Did it a few times back in the day when on 3rd shift

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on March 25, 2022, 01:12:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 25, 2022, 12:09:06 PM

57% of U.S. households paid no federal income tax in 2021: Study (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/25/57percent-of-us-households-paid-no-federal-income-tax-in-2021-study.html)

I think I made up for the 57% not paying :73:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2022, 04:30:26 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/GfAwyHs.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 25, 2022, 05:08:24 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 25, 2022, 12:22:37 PM

Ever get buzzed/drunk twice in the same day.Did it a few times back in the day when on 3rd shift

ever not when you were in yer 20's?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 25, 2022, 05:43:13 PM

Maybe VERY early 30s...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2022, 05:47:08 PM

I once was doing a recrystallization outside the hood with hot ethanol, you have to take considerable care and I was standing directly over it scraping with a glass rod and quite suddenly was staggering drunk.  Last about five minutes.

Had to do it over.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 25, 2022, 05:49:19 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 25, 2022, 05:47:08 PM

I once was doing a recrystallization outside the hood with hot ethanol, you have to take considerable care and I was standing directly over it scraping with a glass rod and quite suddenly was staggering drunk.  Last about five minutes.

Had to do it over.

you wild and crazy guy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2022, 06:54:06 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 25, 2022, 12:09:06 PM

57% of U.S. households paid no federal income tax in 2021: Study (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/25/57percent-of-us-households-paid-no-federal-income-tax-in-2021-study.html)

article is very misleading. huge spike in no federal income taxes being paid because of Covid and the relief, tax credits, and stimulus related to it. when you account for pay roll taxes, true percentage of Americans not paying any tax is around 17%. 

And the part of the article that featured quotes from that piece of shit Rick Scott would be hilarious if it didn't want to make me vomit. Rick Scott can f**k off and die.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2022, 06:58:28 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 25, 2022, 04:30:26 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/GfAwyHs.png)

accurate 

:043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2022, 07:05:21 PM

I don't know if it's sad or a good thing that basically literally two of the only actual real life journalists in all of US media- Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi- are on Substack. It's great that they are independent and not constrained by for profit bullshit multi-national media conglomerates- which are mostly just stenographers for the state or a particular party when it has control of the state- but it is a little sad at the same time they don't have quite the reach to inform the masses that they should. 

great read on the Hunter Biden laptop fiasco by Matt Taibbi and how Glenn Greenwald has been vindicated by his resignation from The Intercept- a newspaper he co-founded - over The Intercepts then-new RussiaGate conspiracy theorist editor Betsy Reed and her attempted censorship of an article Greenwald was writing on the laptop in Oct 2020:

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/tk-mashup-the-media-campaign-to-protect?r=5mz1&s=w&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web


this video is amazing...:043:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qQazyJ99OE

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2022, 07:25:02 AM

Literally is an interesting word.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2022, 07:51:37 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 25, 2022, 06:54:06 PM

article is very misleading. huge spike in no federal income taxes being paid because of Covid and the relief, tax credits, and stimulus related to it. when you account for pay roll taxes, true percentage of Americans not paying any tax is around 17%.

And the part of the article that featured quotes from that piece of shit Rick Scott would be hilarious if it didn't want to make me vomit. Rick Scott can f**k off and die.

Why is the article misleading?  It notes COVID had an effect and reports the typical figure.  It also notes this percentage is about Federal income tax, not FICA.

I don't know who Rick Scott is without looking, but even if he is a PoS for whatever reason, the article to me was factual and accurate.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 26, 2022, 08:10:25 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 26, 2022, 07:25:02 AM

Literally is an interesting word.

In a figurative sense?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 26, 2022, 08:17:45 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 26, 2022, 07:51:37 AM

I don't know who Rick Scott is without looking, but even if he is a PoS for whatever reason, the article to me was factual and accurate.

He was a two-term Florida governor and is now a senator. He was high up in a company that did some medicare fraud as well.

I don't think MDot and I agree on a ton in the political realm, but I also generally find him distasteful. If nothing else, his 11 point plan calls for loyalty oaths, which I see as pretty problematic. 

The study itself is interesting because it needs the follow up question of, what is the makeup of that 44% turned 57%? If one could have a serious discussion about it, could be interesting. Most likely, it'll devolve into the normal degree of mudslinging. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2022, 08:35:23 AM

It seems the 44% became 57% in part because of tax law changes and in part due to loss of income during the shut downs.  I don't think that's too big a stretch.  The temporary child credit was a pretty large factor.  Now I'd imagine it will drop back to 40-something percent, as the article notes.

There also is the EITC which is an interesting concept and means some folks paid negative income tax (Fed).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2022, 08:51:26 AM

New Census data: Metro Atlanta has surpassed Miami's population | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/census-data-metro-atlanta-miami-population-surpassed)

Interesting which metros have lost population over the past year, and which have gained.

(https://i.imgur.com/17O51EP.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2022, 08:55:49 AM

University changes name of Karl Marx study room because of Russian invasion of Ukraine | indy100 (https://www.indy100.com/news/karl-marx-university-florida-russia)

Kind of, well, literally amusing, figuratively speaking.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 26, 2022, 09:10:44 AM

My campaign appears to be failing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2022, 09:15:24 AM

If you combine Austin and SA into one, it's pretty large, and that will happen at some point, technically.

At times, the metro population here jumps because they add a new county by whatever criteria they use.  I'd guess at some point "they" will add Gainesville/Athens/Rome, maybe even Macon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2022, 10:11:07 AM

Canadian official knocks Biden, says asking Iran, Venezuela for oil is 'absolutely senseless' (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/canadian-official-knocks-biden-says-asking-iran-venezuela-for-oil-is-absolutely-senseless/ar-AAVuY3l?ocid=msedgntp)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2022, 12:15:01 PM

Which CFB programs appeared to be on the upside and almost disappeared of late?

UNC and Texas come to mind.  They look pretty decent for one year and then ....

Indiana might make the grade.  I don't know about LSU and Florida, I think they will get back soonish.  Oregon?  Close.

We've noted before how many Blue Bloods have been down for a while now, Michigan of course made a recovery, but is that a lasting trait or one time up and back down?

FSU has been so down for a while they don't count, nor does Miami I think.  Tennessee looks to be on an upswing.  I think Arkansas really is, but maybe they tank now too?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on March 26, 2022, 12:20:35 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2022, 08:38:05 PM

Yeah, and the market is RED-F$^#&@G-HOT here in California where people are supposedly fleeing too...

It's easy to say "it's different this time"--those are the scariest damn words of any asset bubble in existence. It's the point where smart money flees.

It's not different this time. The root causes of the next crash won't be the same as the last one--but people can't afford these homes that they're buying... At least not if interest rates spike (and nobody can buy homes) or a recession hits and people need to sell their homes to people that can't buy them because of interest rates.

In my own guessing where real estate might be going you’re post hits on the two opening points I’ve lead my thoughts with:

“…people can't afford these homes that they're buying…”
1) With homes selling at such comparably higher values than two years ago – i.e. a previous rental address of mine in Portland OR selling for $250K in 2017 sold for $400K in late 2021 – they are, by raw valuing, substantially higher risk mortgages for the individuals qualifying for ownership.
a. By extension, there will statistically be more foreclosures in the next 2 or 3 years…
b. …especially as Federal Reserve borrowing rates are planned for an incremental rise to 2.0% by calendar year’s end.
2) Compounding the risk of higher value mortgages is the overall interest rate (7 percent?) along with rising gas prices cutting into the homeowner’s ability to pay these abruptly higher value mortgages.


“The root causes of the next crash won't be the same as the last one…”
1) In 2008 the banks AND the individual home buyers were BOTH exposed to risk. This time around, I believe the risk is almost entirely on the buyer. Banks mitigated their lending risks in wake of the 2008 meltdown and, unlike in 2008, they have the advantage of demand presumably remaining high. Banks can likely sell foreclosures without the tide of financial losses that spurred 2008’s meltdown.
2) I will go further and say the next foreclosure “crisis” might not play out as a crash or even a market disruption. Home values might very well remain high through oncoming waves of expected foreclosures if the demand remains high thanks to the increase costs of building materials, construction, and time consuming regulations slowing down the ability to raise supply high enough to meet demand.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 26, 2022, 01:12:19 PM

College football 2022: One dark-horse contender from each Power Five conference

ACC ATLANTIC - NC State Wolfpack

ACC COASTAL - Pittsburgh Panthers

BIG TEN EAST - Penn State Nittany Lions

So Penn State had a pretty abysmal last season. Ranked as high as No. 4 in preseason polls, the Lions finished with a 7-6 record and a loss to Arkansas in the Outback Bowl. This pick came to either Michigan State or Penn State, given that Michigan and Ohio State are set to duke it out as the favorites to represent the East in the Big Ten Championship Game. Penn State gets a slight edge thanks to upside. If five-star freshman Drew Allar, the No. 4 quarterback in the 2021 247Sports Composite rankings, can beat out Sean Clifford and fast-track his development, then the Lions have a much higher ceiling. The fact that Penn State may have to replace each starter across the offensive line is a huge concern.

BIG TEN WEST - Purdue Boilermakers

The Boilermakers have basically improved in each year under Jeff Brohm and, in 2021, posted the highest win total in his five years at the helm with a 9-4 record. They knocked off Tennessee in the Music City Bowl without arguably their two best players in David Bell and George Karlaftis, both of which are off to the NFL. Despite the loss of Bell, the wide receiver position is in good hands with top options like Milton Wright, Payne Durham, Broc Thompson and TJ Sheffield. George’s younger brother, Yanni, a former four-star prospect in his own right, will be a redshirt freshman in 2022. The Boilermakers also return plenty of production along the defense, though that unit had its fair share of struggles and needs to take a huge step if Purdue hopes to finally break through under Brohm. The Big Ten West is typically wide open, so the crown is always there to grab.


BIG 12 -  Kansas State Wildcats

PAC-12 NORTH - Beavers

PAC-12 SOUTH - Bruins

SEC EAST - South Carolina Gamecocks

SEC WEST - Ole Miss Rebels

https://247sports.com/college/nebraska/LongFormArticle/College-football-2022-One-dark-horse-contender-from-each-Power-Five-conference--185090849/#1864380_7 (https://247sports.com/college/nebraska/LongFormArticle/College-football-2022-One-dark-horse-contender-from-each-Power-Five-conference--185090849/#1864380_7)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2022, 01:17:31 PM

Spray-painting killer asteroids could redirect them away from Earth | Astronomy.com (https://astronomy.com/news/2022/01/spray-painting-killer-asteroids-could-redirect-them-away-from-earth?utm_source=asyfb&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=asyfb&fbclid=IwAR1lQRqUTskCmVzf83ron5PQ3A2Lf8rk-JjckqCqIQWQIbj7ixpV41PimbI)

This is brilliant, literally.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 26, 2022, 01:20:19 PM

Being in the MortgageBanking business, let me add some additional color:

-we are seeing 25 to almost 50% of home purchases that are happening are cash buyers.( depending on which market) They won’t be affected by a rising interest rates or decrease in property values.

-For those getting a mortgage, approximately 80% or more of them are fixed rates, so interest rate changes will not affect them. Obviously they could be affected by a substantial decrease in income.

- the fundamentals of mortgage lending are substantially better than the crash.  There are far less speculative buyers, income and debt are much more accurately scrutinized, much more heavily documented, and reserves are much more prevalent.  No liar loans, no “no documentation loans“ and very few if any interest only loans.

-it is likely that we will start to see a movement to adjustable rates as we move through this year and see more rate hikes. Borrowers paying 4.5% now are shocked- despite the fact that those are still historically low rates. They can easily afford those rates. But first time homebuyers typically are very sensitive to these rates and are being priced right out of the market. The gap between haves and have nots is clearly widening in the housing market- which exacerbates things- as it leads to less people willing to sell and move up. 

It is hard to accurately predict where this goes since it never been anything like this before.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2022, 01:23:08 PM

Are the cash buyers at times folks who already borrowed using other collateral, or because they are a group of investors pooling money?

I have heard a lot of "corporations" have been in the game.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 26, 2022, 01:26:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 26, 2022, 01:23:08 PM

Are the cash buyers at times folks who already borrowed using other collateral, or because they are a group of investors pooling money?

I have heard a lot of "corporations" have been in the game.

Both.  

1.   People who are wealthy- they just have cash. 
2.   People Who have saved a lot of money for retirement and are cashing in their retirement to make a cash purchase.  They are retiring down here in Florida or California or Arizona or whatever and pay cash for their last house. 
3. Private or public companies buying up real estate with cash.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 26, 2022, 04:29:19 PM

Utee- you out on your boat watching the WGC match play? 

Weather looking good for those boaters.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 27, 2022, 07:32:29 AM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on March 26, 2022, 12:20:35 PM

“The root causes of the next crash won't be the same as the last one…”
1) In 2008 the banks AND the individual home buyers were BOTH exposed to risk.

Correct, and this is why:



Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending - The New York Times (nytimes.com) (https://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/30/business/fannie-mae-eases-credit-to-aid-mortgage-lending.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 27, 2022, 08:03:39 AM

Jeez. 

(https://i.imgur.com/skZR1MV.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 27, 2022, 11:36:36 AM

Rush is launching a new beer label following the success of Rush Canadian Golden Ale, and it truly has the best punny name ever.

Its name? Moving Pitchers! (Get it?!)


https://wmgk.com/2022/03/21/rush-beer-2/ (https://wmgk.com/2022/03/21/rush-beer-2/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2022, 12:06:29 PM

I think they should name a new beer "Responsibly".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 27, 2022, 01:04:28 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 26, 2022, 08:55:49 AM

University changes name of Karl Marx study room because of Russian invasion of Ukraine | indy100 (https://www.indy100.com/news/karl-marx-university-florida-russia)

Kind of, well, literally amusing, figuratively speaking.

nothing like canceling a dead German over Russia's invasion- 140 years after said German died.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 27, 2022, 01:15:10 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2022, 10:11:07 AM

Canadian official knocks Biden, says asking Iran, Venezuela for oil is 'absolutely senseless' (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/canadian-official-knocks-biden-says-asking-iran-venezuela-for-oil-is-absolutely-senseless/ar-AAVuY3l?ocid=msedgntp)

this might be a controversial opinion here, but I think it'd be a really good thing if the US dropped the attempts to crush Iran and Venezuela and the attempts of subversion and regime change in Iran and Venezuela.  

US has been trying to punish both countries and trying to crush both countries since one overthrew a US puppet that was a brutal dictator (hey! I thought we don't like those!) and the other had a free, fair, and open elections go the "wrong way" ie not the way US wanted.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 27, 2022, 01:16:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 26, 2022, 12:15:01 PM

Which CFB programs appeared to be on the upside and almost disappeared of late?

UNC and Texas come to mind.  They look pretty decent for one year and then ....

Indiana might make the grade.  I don't know about LSU and Florida, I think they will get back soonish.  Oregon?  Close.

We've noted before how many Blue Bloods have been down for a while now, Michigan of course made a recovery, but is that a lasting trait or one time up and back down?

FSU has been so down for a while they don't count, nor does Miami I think.  Tennessee looks to be on an upswing.  I think Arkansas really is, but maybe they tank now too?

I think it was a one time deal. Harbaugh hasn't gotten that huge bump at all on the 2023 trail like I thought he would from a big 2021 season. Not sure he even really wants to be at Michigan. He would be in the NFL if the Vikings had offered him the job.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2022, 01:32:24 PM

I would favor isolating countries for attacking neighbors (or clearly wanting to) and egregious human rights violations.

I suspect if we opened up Cuba, they'd be capitalistic in a decade.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 27, 2022, 01:38:02 PM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on March 26, 2022, 12:20:35 PM

In my own guessing where real estate might be going you’re post hits on the two opening points I’ve lead my thoughts with:

“…people can't afford these homes that they're buying…”
1) With homes selling at such comparably higher values than two years ago – i.e. a previous rental address of mine in Portland OR selling for $250K in 2017 sold for $400K in late 2021 – they are, by raw valuing, substantially higher risk mortgages for the individuals qualifying for ownership.
a. By extension, there will statistically be more foreclosures in the next 2 or 3 years…
b. …especially as Federal Reserve borrowing rates are planned for an incremental rise to 2.0% by calendar year’s end.
2) Compounding the risk of higher value mortgages is the overall interest rate (7 percent?) along with rising gas prices cutting into the homeowner’s ability to pay these abruptly higher value mortgages.

this isn't really true. the risk isn't associated with the purchase price. the risk is associated with the borrowers ability to repay the loan. banks are't giving out bullsh**t loans to just anybody. people are being vetted (as they should be) and required to, you know, actually put down money. that is a huge difference from 2008.

And as HB stated, nearly 80% of mortgages being pumped out- are fixed interest rate.

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on March 26, 2022, 12:20:35 PM

“The root causes of the next crash won't be the same as the last one…”
1) In 2008 the banks AND the individual home buyers were BOTH exposed to risk. This time around, I believe the risk is almost entirely on the buyer. Banks mitigated their lending risks in wake of the 2008 meltdown and, unlike in 2008, they have the advantage of demand presumably remaining high. Banks can likely sell foreclosures without the tide of financial losses that spurred 2008’s meltdown.
2) I will go further and say the next foreclosure “crisis” might not play out as a crash or even a market disruption. Home values might very well remain high through oncoming waves of expected foreclosures if the demand remains high thanks to the increase costs of building materials, construction, and time consuming regulations slowing down the ability to raise supply high enough to meet demand.

the 2008 crisis was caused by massive amounts of garbage loans being pumped out- loans with virtually no vetting of income, asset, or employment- and with as little as like 1% or less down and 90+% of these loans had adjustable interest rates - and these loans were accounting for over 20% of all home loans being pumped out leading up the crash- when historically these types of loans have been 5-8%. And of course people would just walk-away from a home they couldn't afford or were underwater in if they had no real skin in the game (low or no downpayment) AND their interest rates were ballooning.

Garbage loans being pumped out lead to MASSIVE speculation by developers buying up shit land in middle of nowhere that should've been worth nothing- overpaying massively for said land- and massive overbuilding of spec homes and developments that there wasn't true, real demand for. It was all funny money was being injected into the system- which caused demand and therefore home prices to spike- it wasn't REAL DEMAND like there is right now. It was all artificial. There was no shortage of supply like there is now- there was inventory and homes for sale everywhere. It was just so easy for any asshole to get a loan to buy a home. That is not the case today. At all. 

The cash buyers are really driving prices up in a lot of the hot markets. Can't compete with cash.

And what REALY crashed the system was all those garbage loans being rolled up into huge tranches of loans- CDOs- and the FRAUD that went on with the rating agencies being paid to rate that trash as AAA (good as gov't bonds) and then all the credit default swaps being sold betting against those garbage CDOs- which really just multiplied the losses to infinity and triggered the collapse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 27, 2022, 01:44:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 27, 2022, 01:32:24 PM

I would favor isolating countries for attacking neighbors (or clearly wanting to) and egregious human rights violations.

I suspect if we opened up Cuba, they'd be capitalistic in a decade.

US doesn't isolate countries for attacking their neighbors or egregious humans rights violations. This is a fantasy. That is not how US foreign policy operates, nor how it's ever operated. US has supported ghouls and monsters- and continues to support ghouls and monsters- so long as said ghouls and monsters interests align with our interests. Basically- do what we say- comply with us- and we really don't care what you do.

US overthrew a secular, democratically elected government in Iran in 1953 because that government nationalized the oil and was going to push "the West" out. US installed a brutal dictator puppet, who brutalized and basically robbed his country blind for 26 years- until he was violently overthrown. Who knows where Iran would be had US not interfered in their sovereignty in 1953. Would likely be a secular, democratic state like it was in 1953.

And when did Cuba attack it's neighbors? And Cuba isn't "ours" to open up. So how can "we" open it up?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 27, 2022, 01:46:22 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 26, 2022, 01:20:19 PM

Being in the MortgageBanking business, let me add some additional color:

-we are seeing 25 to almost 50% of home purchases that are happening are cash buyers.( depending on which market) They won’t be affected by a rising interest rates or decrease in property values.

-For those getting a mortgage, approximately 80% or more of them are fixed rates, so interest rate changes will not affect them. Obviously they could be affected by a substantial decrease in income.

- the fundamentals of mortgage lending are substantially better than the crash.  There are far less speculative buyers, income and debt are much more accurately scrutinized, much more heavily documented, and reserves are much more prevalent.  No liar loans, no “no documentation loans“ and very few if any interest only loans.

-it is likely that we will start to see a movement to adjustable rates as we move through this year and see more rate hikes. Borrowers paying 4.5% now are shocked- despite the fact that those are still historically low rates. They can easily afford those rates. But first time homebuyers typically are very sensitive to these rates and are being priced right out of the market. The gap between haves and have nots is clearly widening in the housing market- which exacerbates things- as it leads to less people willing to sell and move up.

It is hard to accurately predict where this goes since it never been anything like this before. 

great post! agree 100%. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 27, 2022, 01:48:40 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 26, 2022, 01:23:08 PM

Are the cash buyers at times folks who already borrowed using other collateral, or because they are a group of investors pooling money?

I have heard a lot of "corporations" have been in the game.

Private Equity has been buying home since the crash. They really weren't in the single family housing market before. They've been in it in a big way since. They tend to really drive up prices in the most important housing markets- because they tend to buy in only the most important markets and pay cash- and well you can't compete with cash.

Most of the cash buyers however are retirees flush with cash or people who just sold their homes or businesses and are relocating to other states.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 27, 2022, 05:02:32 PM

I’ll take they are all corrupt as shit, super blue majority, high taxation, Covid-Nazi cities for 500!  

https://twitter.com/patrickbetdavid/status/1507899744886136836?s=20&t=s2ZuI3aplVT2w-oNqjsooA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 27, 2022, 05:08:13 PM

those are net numbers by the way

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2022, 05:37:36 PM

Nearly all major cities are very "blue" and Democratic.  There isn't much of a point of comparison.  Atlanta is growing like crazy again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 27, 2022, 05:40:22 PM

So the 3 biggest cities + 2 most expensive CA cities lost the most people?  

Uhh.

Duh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2022, 05:42:38 PM

They could be growing, in theory, being big doesn't mean you can't grow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 27, 2022, 05:48:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 27, 2022, 05:42:38 PM

They could be growing, in theory, being big doesn't mean you can't grow.

Pass.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 27, 2022, 05:50:02 PM

The top 10 metro areas with the largest growth include:

• Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, Texas (97,290)
• Phoenix-Mesa-Chandler, Ariz. (78,220)
• Houston-The Woodlands-Sugar Land, Texas (69,094)
• Austin-Round Rock-Georgetown, Texas (53,301)
• Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, Calif. (47,601)
• Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Alpharetta, Ga. (42,904)
• Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, Fla. (36,129)
• San Antonio-New Braunfels, Texas (35,105)
• Charlotte-Concord-Gastonia, N.C./S.C. (31,381)
• Raleigh-Cary, N.C. (28,186)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 27, 2022, 06:00:27 PM

not a big city guy

I wouldn't live in any of the cities on either list

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2022, 06:01:52 PM

It's for a single year so the numbers may not be indicative of a longer term trend, but I think they are in most cases.  I think the nothernmost city on the list is Raleigh, NC, which is a sign I think.

I read that midtown ATL has about 42,000 residents and added 5,000 new housing units in a year (condos and apts).  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 27, 2022, 07:57:07 PM

Cool video 'nerd alert' stuff - says it's about realignment and is, at first, but grows to discussing the alliance and has cool charts and shit.
Starts at 2:15 for realignment in Big 12, 2:23 for other, more broad ahtletics/academics stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n89KmyIDEdY&t=1237s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n89KmyIDEdY&t=1237s)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 27, 2022, 08:39:12 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 27, 2022, 05:42:38 PM

They could be growing, in theory, being big doesn't mean you can't grow.

those were net numbers which take into account those who move into the city as well. they aren't growing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 27, 2022, 08:50:09 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 27, 2022, 05:40:22 PM

So the 3 biggest cities + 2 most expensive CA cities lost the most people? 

Uhh.

Duh.

Yeah, but not really.

They are all experiencing record losses. Those numbers were net migration. NY averaged around 23,000 residents lost net per year - the 5 years before COVID. They just hit 14x their average in one year.  Same shit across the board for all of those cities- they are experiencing record net migration losses. People are fleeing as those cities are increasingly becoming sh*tholes.

Sad to see in NYC especially. It's America's greatest city, and NYC is just so different now. It's devolving back into the sewer it was before Giuliani cleaned it up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 27, 2022, 09:09:56 PM

it's as if perpetual growth/greatness isn't realistic or something.  Weird.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 27, 2022, 09:20:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 27, 2022, 09:09:56 PM

it's as if perpetual growth/greatness isn't realistic or something.  Weird.

nope. that's something that takes effort and leadership to maintain greatness or grow. things that cities like NYC and LA/SF and states like NY/CA lack. Cuomo and that fake Italian piece of sh*t Warren Wilhelm set that city back a decade, maybe forever.

California had net negative migration for the first time ever since 1850- you know- it's founding.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 27, 2022, 09:27:51 PM

Who voted those leaders into place?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 27, 2022, 09:28:03 PM

One year does not a trend make.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 27, 2022, 09:28:46 PM

It's weird that some places didn't do well during unprecedented times.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 27, 2022, 09:35:56 PM

It's weird that some places did very  well during unprecedented times.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 27, 2022, 09:46:12 PM

When you have people leaving one place, they have to go somewhere.  Usually with better weather.

And I'd be careful with that statement, Thanos.  You know, considering all the deaths.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 27, 2022, 10:13:48 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 27, 2022, 09:20:26 PM

nope. that's something that takes effort and leadership to maintain greatness or grow. things that cities like NYC and LA/SF and states like NY/CA lack. Cuomo and that fake Italian piece of sh*t Warren Wilhelm set that city back a decade, maybe forever.

California had net negative migration for the first time ever since 1850- you know- it's founding.

So you’re saying if a metro shrinks, that’s a sign it’s failing in general as a place?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 28, 2022, 12:02:01 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 27, 2022, 10:13:48 PM

So you’re saying if a metro shrinks, that’s a sign it’s failing in general as a place?

I wake up every morning hoping my city and region would show such signs of  "failing in general as a place."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 28, 2022, 12:08:36 AM

When I went to school in Austin 1967 to 1971 it had a population under 300,000

Today its over 2,000,000

Its a much different place 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 28, 2022, 12:18:07 AM

Yeah I've lived in Austin for my entire life, and it has changed a lot in my lifetime.

Some changes are bad. Some are good.  That's the way it goes.  Same is true of Houston and Dallas and any other major city experiencing growth, but I've found that Austin is a special case among UT grads because so many of them came here from elsewhere, spent a brief, fun and carefree part of their life here, and then moved on.  They seem to think that it should remain frozen in time for whatever period precisely matches their undergraduate years, but of course that's not how it works.

Ayway, at work, people marvel when I tell them I'm a native. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 28, 2022, 12:25:06 AM

My daughter has a degree from UT she was a Communications major and went on to graduated from UT Law so Ive been witness to the changes that have taken place.

There will always be a special place in my heart for that town.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 28, 2022, 12:46:17 AM

Yup.  I was born and raised in Austin, graduated summa cum laude from an Austin public high school, got a full scholarship as a National Merit Scholar to earn my undergraduate degree in Electrical Engineering from UT, worked in Austin as an EE for about a decade, got my MBA from McCombs School of Business at UT-Austin, and continued to live in Austin after that, working at two of the world's largest manufacturers of semiconductors, and computing equipment.

I'm not attempting to make it a competition, I just have my own perspective about the evolution/growth/change of the city, based on my 50 years of living here, non-stop.

In general I find UT grads who moved away, to be the most annoying, regarding how "bad" it has become here.  Universally, I recognize that they are wise and correct, Austin is terrible now, and they should continue to stay away. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 28, 2022, 12:50:11 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 28, 2022, 12:46:17 AM

Yup.  I was born and raised in Austin, got a full scholarship as a National Merit Scholar to earn my undergraduate degree in Electrical Engineering, worked in Austin as an EE for about a decade, got my MBA from McCombs School of Business at UT-Austin, and continued to live in Austin after that.

I'm not attempting to make it a competition, I just have my own perspective about the evolution/growth/change of the city, based on my 50 years of living here, non-stop.

In general I find UT grads who moved away, to be the most annoying, regarding how "bad" it has become here.  Universally, I recognize that they are wise and correct, Austin is terrible now, and they should continue to stay away. 

Im doin my part

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 28, 2022, 12:51:54 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 28, 2022, 12:50:11 AM

Im doin my part

Thank You For Your Support

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 28, 2022, 06:12:48 AM

I don't think I've ever watched the Oscars, but saw this all over the news.....Will Smith got pissed off at Chris Rock for telling a joke about his wife Jada Pinkett's hair loss- saying that she's starring in a GI Jane II sequel- a dated reference about a sequel to a movie made 20 years ago- so Will Smith walks up to the stage and appears to smack the f***k out of Chris Rock and then goes and sits downs and yells at him to "keep my wives name out your f**king mouth". The uncensored video is below. Wondering if maybe this whole thing was staged. It was a pretty mild joke to warrant a reaction like that if you ask me....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myjEoDypUD8

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2022, 08:53:01 AM

I never watch a minute of that stuff

not gonna watch the replay this morning

don't worry y'all, I'm not moving to Austin

been there a few times, it's turrible

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2022, 08:53:12 AM

BLT Restaurants Group, the New York-based parent company of BLT Steak and BLT Prime steakhouses, has declared bankruptcy. The move comes after the company couldn't repay the $3.3 million Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) loan it had received in 2020, according to Restaurant Business.

The federal government refused to forgive the company's loan in full, with 40% still outstanding, according to the Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing. The documents show that BLT's restaurants were affected by local dine-in capacity restrictions from April until October of 2020, and many of its employees did not return to work, which put the company out of compliance with the terms of the loan. During the course of the year, BLT Restaurants Group lost $7.6 million in income.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2022, 09:21:04 AM

NATO, explained — the alliance and why it's crucial now : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2022/03/27/1088683957/what-is-nato-ukraine-russia-putin)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 28, 2022, 09:35:06 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 28, 2022, 06:12:48 AM

I don't think I've ever watched the Oscars, but saw this all over the news.....Will Smith got pissed off at Chris Rock for telling a joke about his wife Jada Pinkett's hair loss- saying that she's starring in a GI Jane II sequel- a dated reference about a sequel to a movie made 20 years ago- so Will Smith walks up to the stage and appears to smack the f***k out of Chris Rock and then goes and sits downs and yells at him to "keep my wives name out your f**king mouth". The uncensored video is below. Wondering if maybe this whole thing was staged. It was a pretty mild joke to warrant a reaction like that if you ask me....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myjEoDypUD8

It was weird, looked like a stage slap from the only camera angle I saw of it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2022, 09:35:49 AM

U.S. bonds: Treasury yields invert flashing recessionary warning sign (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/28/us-bonds-treasury-yields-invert-flashing-recessionary-warning-sign.html?&qsearchterm=)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 28, 2022, 10:02:42 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 28, 2022, 09:35:06 AM

It was weird, looked like a stage slap from the only camera angle I saw of it.

Will Smith's wife shaves her head and then gets offended when someone makes a joke about it

These folks come from a different planet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 28, 2022, 10:04:23 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 28, 2022, 10:02:42 AM

Will Smith's wife shaves her head and then gets offended when someone makes a joke about it

These folks come from a different planet

Her hair loss is due to a condition called alopecia.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 28, 2022, 10:12:04 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 28, 2022, 10:04:23 AM

Her hair loss is due to a condition called alopecia. 

yes but she has other alternatives besides shaving her head

and when you shave your head and go to the oscars what did she expect

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2022, 10:16:57 AM

I can understand shaving your head

I don't understand going to the Oscars

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2022, 10:17:56 AM

I've often wondered about the daily lives of the "rich and famous".  It could get boring.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SuperMario on March 28, 2022, 10:28:32 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 28, 2022, 09:35:49 AM

U.S. bonds: Treasury yields invert flashing recessionary warning sign (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/28/us-bonds-treasury-yields-invert-flashing-recessionary-warning-sign.html?&qsearchterm=)

The last 6 months have felt similar to 2007, especially with the housing euphoria. A different kindle this time around, but some underlying red flags for the greater economy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 28, 2022, 10:30:04 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 28, 2022, 10:17:56 AM

I've often wondered about the daily lives of the "rich and famous".  It could get boring.

I thought you were one of the rich and famous

whats your daily life like

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on March 28, 2022, 11:00:00 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 26, 2022, 01:20:19 PM

-it is likely that we will start to see a movement to adjustable rates as we move through this year and see more rate hikes. Borrowers paying 4.5% now are shocked- despite the fact that those are still historically low rates. They can easily afford those rates. But first time homebuyers typically are very sensitive to these rates and are being priced right out of the market. The gap between haves and have nots is clearly widening in the housing market- which exacerbates things- as it leads to less people willing to sell and move up.

It is hard to accurately predict where this goes since it never been anything like this before. 

So based on both highlighted statements aren’t there a few broader predictabilities?

If home owning is concentrating into the fewer hands of older populations already in the door, the wealthy, and investment firms like Blackrock I don’t see how this isn’t one of a few big signs of the quickly lowering standard of American living and expectation.

If the younger generations are facing sharply decreasing prospects of homeownership, along with a rise in poverty, homelessness, and living costs, there’s plenty of areas of the world we can look to for a preview of what day to day life holds for those among the younger generations who won’t as easily get by as their parents did.

Having lived in two of Europe’s poorer Balkans nations, citizens there are destined to a life of renting. Any detached family homes are kept within family generations, all living under the same roof which never hits the public market. Corruption is widespread. Discretional income is minimal. Personal ambition is tempered. Alcoholism is high. Medical care lags behind about thirty years.

So many subtle elements of our day to day American living is only noticeable once its absence is clearly more noticeable in what I think of as Central and Eastern Europe’s “scaled back second world.” For example, there’s no landscaping companies – weeds and grass grow wild across every cemetery, school yard, playground, and along the sidewalks and commuter rails. Because there isn’t a fostered awareness to neuter your pets, surplus populations of cats roamed my neighborhood. Nobody spends $10k for a wedding. There’s no high school sports for the smaller towns to rally around. No such thing as an HOA. For carwashes, rain is your only option in many cities. Cars in general aren’t maintained – bumpers are left in disrepair after fender-benders. 


And going east towards Russia the poverty and decaying infrastructure worsen. Such as live power lines exposed along ditches and roadsides so that when it rains the puddles are electrified. And it’s not uncommon to encounter wild packs of larger dogs roaming the residential streets.

What makes it all the more grim if rising poverty scales America back into “second world” living is the higher rates of 1) violent crime in American cities, 2) household debt, and 3) drug abuse – prescription and street drugs alike. I find myself get bummed by how the lack vision amongst much of the younger generation can understandably be interpretable as the prevalent lack of vision in the future America itself.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 28, 2022, 11:20:43 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 28, 2022, 10:02:42 AM

Will Smith's wife shaves her head and then gets offended when someone makes a joke about it

These folks come from a different planet

While I don’t condone hitting others, hitting someone who insulted your wife in public feels very much like a this planet sort of thing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 28, 2022, 11:32:11 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 28, 2022, 11:20:43 AM

While I don’t condone hitting others, hitting someone who insulted your wife in public feels very much like a this planet sort of thing.

well lets see bitch slapping a guy on national tv brought to you by Disney who pays you a lot of money

we will see how that works out 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 28, 2022, 11:41:48 AM

Like I said, it was weird.  It looked like a stage slap.  I would know, I've participated in more than a few of those.

Will's reaction later though, seemed to be pretty emotional and legitimately embarrassed.

So I don't know if it was staged, and if it actually was staged, I don't know what the objective would have been.

Just a weird deal all the way around.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2022, 11:46:38 AM

hollywood types are weird

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 28, 2022, 11:55:52 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 28, 2022, 11:46:38 AM

hollywood types are weird

yup. seen a bunch of memes about people making fun of Will Smith saying he gets more pissed at Chris Rock for a lame joke about his wife than he is at the guy who was actually sleeping with his wife.

I read that Will Smith/Jada dabble in and might even be Scientologists. Lots of A-listers are devout Scientologists or dabble in that celebrity center. Scientology actively recruits famous actors.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 28, 2022, 11:57:23 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 28, 2022, 11:20:43 AM

While I don’t condone hitting others, hitting someone who insulted your wife in public feels very much like a this planet sort of thing.

you ain't lying, everyone is offended by everything these days. was a pretty tame joke. not like he made a joke about her sleeping around on him. it's an awards show- hosted by....comedians.

That was a pretty tame joke. Which is why I think it was probably staged. And if it wasn't, well if someone like Ricky Gervais had hosted, Will Smith might've killed him for what he would've said lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 28, 2022, 12:00:37 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 28, 2022, 11:41:48 AM

Like I said, it was weird.  It looked like a stage slap.  I would know, I've participated in more than a few of those.

Will's reaction later though, seemed to be pretty emotional and legitimately embarrassed.

So I don't know if it was staged, and if it actually was staged, I don't know what the objective would have been.

Just a weird deal all the way around.

if it was staged- objective would probably be press...get people talking about him and get eye balls on the Oscars. Almost no one watches the Oscars anymore- it's lost like 80% of it's ratings. And while Will Smith just won the Oscar for Best Actor- he's not really starring in $1 billion blockbusters any more. He's still a huge movie star obviously- but at one time- he was like THE movie star- aside from maybe Tom Cruise.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 28, 2022, 12:05:08 PM

Will's reaction immediately after the slap was not one of a man who was part of a getup.

The real brick-shitting was by the two people at the Academy's accounting firm who knew that Will had won Best Actor. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 28, 2022, 12:05:20 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 28, 2022, 12:00:37 PM

if it was staged- objective would probably be press...get people talking about him and get eye balls on the Oscars. Almost no one watches the Oscars anymore- it's lost like 80% of it's ratings. And while Will Smith just won the Oscar for Best Actor- he's not really starring in $1 billion blockbusters any more. He's still a huge movie star obviously- but at one time- he was like THE movie star- aside from maybe Tom Cruise.

Yeah, publicity is the only thing I can think of, too.  Seems like a weird way to get it, but I won't pretend to understand the folks who run the Oscars. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 28, 2022, 12:14:03 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 28, 2022, 12:05:08 PM

Will's reaction immediately after the slap was not one of a man who was part of a getup.

I agree with you, but then again he is an Academy Award winning actor - those people are really good at pretending and lying lol!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 28, 2022, 12:16:02 PM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on March 28, 2022, 11:00:00 AM

So based on both highlighted statements aren’t there a few broader predictabilities?

If home owning is concentrating into the fewer hands of older populations already in the door, the wealthy, and investment firms like Blackrock I don’t see how this isn’t one of a few big signs of the quickly lowering standard of American living and expectation.

If the younger generations are facing sharply decreasing prospects of homeownership, along with a rise in poverty, homelessness, and living costs, there’s plenty of areas of the world we can look to for a preview of what day to day life holds for those among the younger generations who won’t as easily get by as their parents did.

Having lived in two of Europe’s poorer Balkans nations, citizens there are destined to a life of renting. Any detached family homes are kept within family generations, all living under the same roof which never hits the public market. Corruption is widespread. Discretional income is minimal. Personal ambition is tempered. Alcoholism is high. Medical care lags behind about thirty years.

So many subtle elements of our day to day American living is only noticeable once its absence is clearly more noticeable in what I think of as Central and Eastern Europe’s “scaled back second world.” For example, there’s no landscaping companies – weeds and grass grow wild across every cemetery, school yard, playground, and along the sidewalks and commuter rails. Because there isn’t a fostered awareness to neuter your pets, surplus populations of cats roamed my neighborhood. Nobody spends $10k for a wedding. There’s no high school sports for the smaller towns to rally around. No such thing as an HOA. For carwashes, rain is your only option in many cities. Cars in general aren’t maintained – bumpers are left in disrepair after fender-benders. 

And going east towards Russia the poverty and decaying infrastructure worsen. Such as live power lines exposed along ditches and roadsides so that when it rains the puddles are electrified. And it’s not uncommon to encounter wild packs of larger dogs roaming the residential streets.

What makes it all the more grim if rising poverty scales America back into “second world” living is the higher rates of 1) violent crime in American cities, 2) household debt, and 3) drug abuse – prescription and street drugs alike. I find myself get bummed by how the lack vision amongst much of the younger generation can understandably be interpretable as the prevalent lack of vision in the future America itself.

you nailed it 100%. 

Middle class has been eroding slowly for decades and the "American dream" has been dying. America is shifting to a nation of renters. Pretty much everything you just laid out is happening here. Violent crime rates are exploding. The murder rate went up 30% from 2020 to 2021- the highest increase in a single year in more than a century. We have over 100,000 people dying every year from drug overdoses now- vast majority of those- nearly 80%- are Opiate overdoses. 

Not sure it's the younger generation that lacks vision- as they don't have the power to change things. The power is in the hands of the old and the crusty. It's the DC ghoul swap creatures in their 70s and 80s like Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and Mitch McConnell that lack vision- and who can't get a god damn thing of consequence done. I thought Obama as a younger guy would come in and shake things up- I actually voted for him- but that was mostly all great PR. 

People talk about corruption in other countries....DC is as corrupt as it gets. Can't fix anything until that issue is dealt with.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2022, 12:23:49 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/eyoUfgM.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/DIFhRg1.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 28, 2022, 12:50:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 28, 2022, 09:21:04 AM

NATO, explained — the alliance and why it's crucial now : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2022/03/27/1088683957/what-is-nato-ukraine-russia-putin)

Kind of a one sided article. Didn't see any thing from James Baker or George Kennan- who both opposed NATO expansion. Baker only negotiated the reunification of Germany with the USSR. Kennan was you know- only the architect of US's entire Cold War policy for much of the Cold War era. A Godfather of US foreign policy if you will. Kennan said expanding NATO east was “the most fateful error of American policy in the entire post-Cold War era.” Ouch. Baker suggested dissolving NATO as a military alliance and reimagining it as a political one. There were plenty of others who warned against it. Kissinger too. There were plenty of them. Why not get any of them on the record or ask them a thing or two about NATO?

And this line leaves out a lot of context;

Several countries bordering Russia are already part of NATO: Estonia and Latvia. Lithuania and Poland border the Kaliningrad region, the chunk of Russia on the Baltic Sea.

All hypotheticals here- but if shit hit the fan and they needed to, they could easily encircle and cut off the Baltic states by rapidly advancing through the suwalki gap between Kaliningrad and Belarus and cut them off from the rest of NATO. They are't that much of a geographical threat. Ukraine in NATO? Completely different story, and that would be a geographical quagmire for them in terms of their defensive lines and defensive capabilities. It'd move their defensive front lines all the way from the Carpathians to the widest section of the north european plain- hard to defend flat land of nearly 1,500 miles of wide open border- and NATO would be only 180 miles from Volgograd- which if taken would shut down the entire Volga river and cut off all their oil & gas supplies from the Caspian sea. Not to mention their client state Belarus would be surrounded entirely by NATO on three flanks.

NATO is a relic of a time that no longer exists. Soviet Union was a legitimate empire that rivaled only the US in power. And they exported communism. We had to fight the "damn communists!". Welp, USSR is no more- hasn't been around for over 30 years- and Russia isn't a communist state nor a legitimate empire or threat to US hegemony. Their military is 2nd rate- as we're seeing in Ukraine and the only reason anyone respects them at all is because they have a lot of hold over nukes from the Soviet era. They are not the USSR in terms of raw power- not even in close. After the USSR died- did they re-evaluate NATO and say hey, what do we do with this now that it's entire reason for existing is gone. Nope. They just immediately moved to expand it. Expanding it was a bad idea, and pretty much every US politician, diplomat, and policy maker from the Cold War era said as much, but they were stupidly ignored by the administrations of Clinton, Bush II, and Obama.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SuperMario on March 28, 2022, 01:00:31 PM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on March 28, 2022, 11:00:00 AM

What makes it all the more grim if rising poverty scales America back into “second world” living is the higher rates of 1) violent crime in American cities, 2) household debt, and 3) drug abuse – prescription and street drugs alike. I find myself get bummed by how the lack vision amongst much of the younger generation can understandably be interpretable as the prevalent lack of vision in the future America itself.

You're entire post is tremendous. A couple points really stuck out to me:  the wealth gap is widening tremendously. The amount of consumer debt people are taking on is eye-opening and scary. An additional layer to that is the balances of student loan debt in comparison to the annual income in so many cases makes no sense. People are taking on student loan debt balances that are never justified by their income level. Secondly, the level of auto loans in comparison to income levels is also scary. Not to mention 84 month auto loans becoming far more commonplace. 

I'll say this about the younger generation. There are two types of younger person that walks into my business looking for a employment - a) those that either think everything will be easy or they're entitled to an easier path of success or b) those that still understand to have a shot to elevate their own potential past their heirs potential, they need to sacrifice, take chances and work harder than their peers. Over the last 2 years, I've seen more in the B category walk in my doors than I expected.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 28, 2022, 01:09:22 PM

if we had some real leadership in Washington we would be doing much better

There are so many things that need fixin thats being iqnored that the bar is very low

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 28, 2022, 02:18:56 PM

Just read that a CNN analysist blames the Will Smith incident on Trump

gotta love it

He lives in their heads 24/7

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 28, 2022, 02:47:24 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 28, 2022, 01:09:22 PM

if we had some real leadership in Washington we would be doing much better

There are so many things that need fixin thats being iqnored that the bar is very low

Agreed.
Running for congress is something people do to make a lot of money, gain some notoriety (if even just locally), and to grandstand.  It's gross.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 28, 2022, 02:47:56 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 28, 2022, 02:18:56 PM

Just read that a CNN analysist blames the Will Smith incident on Trump

gotta love it

He lives in their heads 24/7

Who was it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 28, 2022, 03:15:09 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 28, 2022, 02:47:56 PM

Who was it?

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2022/03/28/cnn-analyst-finds-a-way-to-fault-trump-after-will-smith-goes-berserk-on-chris-rock-1218324/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 28, 2022, 03:48:04 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 28, 2022, 03:15:09 PM

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2022/03/28/cnn-analyst-finds-a-way-to-fault-trump-after-will-smith-goes-berserk-on-chris-rock-1218324/

Ahh. That’s disappointing. She can be informative on some FBI mechanics stuff. 

The cotton-candy-ization of our political consumption is also unfortunate, but way of the world, I suppose. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 28, 2022, 04:41:10 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 28, 2022, 03:48:04 PM

Ahh. That’s disappointing. She can be informative on some FBI mechanics stuff.

The cotton-candy-ization of our political consumption is also unfortunate, but way of the world, I suppose.

He broke their brains.  I'm only half-kidding.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 28, 2022, 06:49:35 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 28, 2022, 04:41:10 PM

He broke their brains.  I'm only half-kidding.

To a degree, I agree with this. But we're living in such a broken-brain era, it makes hardly more than a ripple.

Think about it. This woman in just about every sense does not matter. And she fired off a dumb tweet, which is hardly a declaration of much. And I'd bet you there are 10s of websites that wrote up basically the same thing as that article, vying for many thousands of views  for that garbled culture war nonsense. And that's all from the side we're not talking about. Our brains are broken all around. 

Shoot, look at big chunks of this thread. If anything, saying that experience broke their brains is giving far, far too much credit to those brains before. (Not to mention the general broken brain-ness of making that fella the leader of the free world with those codes and such. Odd times we live in)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 28, 2022, 07:29:25 PM

There is no fixing news/journalism without removing the money/eyeballs/clicks aspect of it.

The news has to become a public work or something - a donation of time/resources maybe - anything but what it's become.  We're literally in a post-truth era now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 29, 2022, 08:51:05 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 28, 2022, 07:29:25 PM

The news has to become a public work or something - a donation of time/resources maybe - anything but what it's become.  We're literally in a post-truth era now.

N-P-R

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 29, 2022, 09:00:15 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 29, 2022, 08:51:05 AM

N-P-R

NPR is not free from agendas and partisan hackery.  So that's clearly not the answer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2022, 09:19:19 AM

NPR needs to be defunded.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2022, 09:19:28 AM

Florida officials fight back against rowdy spring breakers (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/florida-officials-fight-back-against-rowdy-spring-breakers/ar-AAVADeQ?li=BBnbfcL)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 29, 2022, 09:28:17 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2022, 09:19:28 AM

Florida officials fight back against rowdy spring breakers (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/florida-officials-fight-back-against-rowdy-spring-breakers/ar-AAVADeQ?li=BBnbfcL)

Cranky about the non-Floridians invading your state?


:)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 29, 2022, 09:36:20 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2022, 09:19:28 AM

Florida officials fight back against rowdy spring breakers (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/florida-officials-fight-back-against-rowdy-spring-breakers/ar-AAVADeQ?li=BBnbfcL)

#make-crime-illegal-again.  

Trumps Fault.  Desantis Fault. 

I am sure our resident “progressives” here will be quick to come and explain that to us.  😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 29, 2022, 10:07:37 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 29, 2022, 09:28:17 AM

Cranky about the non-Floridians invading your state?


:)

*Other* non-Floridans invading. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 29, 2022, 10:12:10 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 29, 2022, 09:36:20 AM

#make-crime-illegal-again. 

Trumps Fault.  Desantis Fault.

I am sure our resident “progressives” here will be quick to come and explain that to us.  😂😂😂

I like this rhetorical bit.

Most of the post doesn’t really make sense and is mostly just political word salad. But if someone is like “what does that actually mean?” they're the progressive here to talk down to you. A very good bit, really. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2022, 10:17:29 AM

Most of what I see in politics is word salad, panderings, sensationlizations, claims, counterclaims, and very little of actual substance.  I guess that is obvious.

I believe to assess some reasonable portrayal of "truth" in the world, one has to check numerous "news" outlets.  I find the business oriented outlets to be less, well, obviously partisan, they usually lean right on fiscal matters of course, but their readers have money at stake and appreciate hearing some factual reportage, often as not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 29, 2022, 10:23:09 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 29, 2022, 09:00:15 AM

NPR is not free from agendas and partisan hackery.  So that's clearly not the answer.

I mean, there is no answer.

Most of media, especially successful media is a capitalistic enterprise. And thus, it sells consumers what they want. And what they want is agendas and partisan hackery (shoot, a lot of what WE want is that, and we’re smarter than most). So the producer gives the people what they want. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 29, 2022, 10:28:12 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2022, 09:19:28 AM

Florida officials fight back against rowdy spring breakers (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/florida-officials-fight-back-against-rowdy-spring-breakers/ar-AAVADeQ?li=BBnbfcL)

Good thing you graduated 30 + years ago 😎

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 29, 2022, 10:30:40 AM

If you want a free press then this is the result

The alternative is far worse

As CD said there plenty of sources out there and all the viewer can do is try and find the sources they feel they can trust

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 29, 2022, 10:34:06 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 29, 2022, 10:12:10 AM

I like this rhetorical bit.

Most of the post doesn’t really make sense and is mostly just political word salad. But if someone is like “what does that actually mean?” they're the progressive here to talk down to you. A very good bit, really.

Thank you.  After your word salad yesterday making excuses, and blaming everyone but the guilty yesterday when discussing how Will slapping Chris was Trumps fault- this was apropos.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 29, 2022, 10:35:56 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 28, 2022, 12:16:02 PM

you nailed it 100%.

Middle class has been eroding slowly for decades and the "American dream" has been dying. America is shifting to a nation of renters. Pretty much everything you just laid out is happening here. Violent crime rates are exploding. The murder rate went up 30% from 2020 to 2021- the highest increase in a single year in more than a century. We have over 100,000 people dying every year from drug overdoses now- vast majority of those- nearly 80%- are Opiate overdoses.

Not sure it's the younger generation that lacks vision- as they don't have the power to change things. The power is in the hands of the old and the crusty. It's the DC ghoul swap creatures in their 70s and 80s like Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and Mitch McConnell that lack vision- and who can't get a god damn thing of consequence done. I thought Obama as a younger guy would come in and shake things up- I actually voted for him- but that was mostly all great PR.

People talk about corruption in other countries....DC is as corrupt as it gets. Can't fix anything until that issue is dealt with.

One of your best efforts and wish it was full of holes - ya know like your football takes ;D. I too voted for obama the 1st time,have voted libertarian ever since for the POTUS. I really believe though can't prove my theory that ALL at the highest level HAVE BEEN BOUGHT or sold their souls to either Corporate or Communist interests. A ruderless ship that are taking on more tits to suckle with out adding anything to the till

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 29, 2022, 10:50:53 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 29, 2022, 10:34:06 AM

Thank you.  After your word salad yesterday making excuses, and blaming everyone but the guilty yesterday when discussing how Will slapping Chris was Trumps fault- this was apropos. 

I did not say that. I made no assessment of guilt. Laid no blame at Donny's feet. (The tweet was asinine)

(since that leaves a little wiggle room, it will smith‘s fault. I understand why he did it, but he’s a grown-up and grown-ups don’t do that)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2022, 11:20:58 AM

I read "news" from a wide variety of sources daily.  I don't trust any of them, but the "straight up news" is very often the same report from each site.  By that I mean what someone said, what bill passed Congress, what the stock market did, etc., what I'd call hard news, it's factual, but then it can get spun of course later.

A site can report economic data for example, and another site reports the same data, but they emphasize one aspect over another, and vice versa, in their verbiage.  That is where the spin comes in, depending on whether they want the reader to think the news is good or bad.  And of course what gets headlined will vary quite a bit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 29, 2022, 01:44:29 PM

can't trust any of them

sad

News people and/or politicians

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2022, 01:46:45 PM

Rhetorical cleanups pile up for an emotionally undisciplined Biden | TheHill (https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/600185-rhetorical-cleanups-pile-up-for-an-emotionally-undisciplined-biden)


Don Lemon: Criticism of Biden's Putin comments 'media manufactured' | TheHill (https://thehill.com/homenews/media/600195-don-lemon-criticism-of-bidens-putin-comments-media-manufactured)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 29, 2022, 01:57:25 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 29, 2022, 01:44:29 PM

can't trust any of them

sad

News people and/or politicians

Fixed that 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2022, 01:58:22 PM

Prosecutors Advance Tax Probe of Hunter Biden - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/prosecutors-advance-tax-probe-of-hunter-biden-11648465200)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2022, 02:47:50 PM

It’s Time to Rethink America’s Corn System - Scientific American (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/time-to-rethink-corn/)

40% of our corn goes to ethanol for fuel.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 29, 2022, 03:07:53 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 28, 2022, 01:09:22 PM

if we had some real leadership in Washington we would be doing much better

There are so many things that need fixin thats being iqnored that the bar is very low

100%. 

Instead we have to worry about trying to "fix" other countries all over the globe. 

Putting aside the humanitarian crises' from the war crimes committed by US Presidents in these wars and all of the fraud and essentially money laundering of tax payer dollars perpetrated with private contractors- just think of the trillions of dollars that were literally wasted in Afghanistan and Iraq. North of $7 trillion- probably even more- we don't have a true full account- which is also staggering.

Imagine how this country would like if it had spent that $7 trillion rebuilding this country instead of destroying others which mean nothing to us half way around the world on the other side of the globe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 29, 2022, 03:15:21 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 28, 2022, 07:29:25 PM

There is no fixing news/journalism without removing the money/eyeballs/clicks aspect of it.

The news has to become a public work or something - a donation of time/resources maybe - anything but what it's become.  We're literally in a post-truth era now.

Agree 110%. And that's the reason why it's such sh*t today. 

The wealthy can also basically buy good press with bribes- just look at Bill Gates. He's donated well over $320 million to media companies in the last decade alone. Find me one mainstream media article or news show really criticizing or even examining Bill Gates. Not sure you can do it. He basically just gets blowjobs in the press 24/7. Can't bite a hand that feeds them....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 29, 2022, 03:18:39 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 28, 2022, 02:18:56 PM

Just read that a CNN analysist blames the Will Smith incident on Trump

gotta love it

He lives in their heads 24/7

I honestly think it's all an act- they are literally dead in the ratings without him.

He was the best thing that ever happened to them, and them bashing him 24/7 and getting all the libtards, shitlibs, and "resistance" fighters riled up was basically 99% of their ratings. When they lost that- they crashed into the dirt.

It's like WWE wrestling, all fake bullsh*t- and the dumber a person is the better they do on CNN. Look at Cuomo (before the firing in disgrace) or Don Lemon. CNN's two biggest stars by far and two of the biggest morons that have ever graced television screens.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 29, 2022, 03:20:52 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2022, 01:58:22 PM

Prosecutors Advance Tax Probe of Hunter Biden - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/prosecutors-advance-tax-probe-of-hunter-biden-11648465200)

(https://c.tenor.com/sTgOAh9zfX4AAAAC/inglorious-basterds-call-me.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2022, 03:20:59 PM

How would a person donate money to media companies?  I want to get in on this.

Can I just write a check to CNN?

In the above situation, money in news media, I think the cure would be worse than the illness.  What folks REALLY want is for the news to be covered the way THEY want it covered.  Sorry, we don't need that at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 29, 2022, 03:22:21 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 28, 2022, 02:47:24 PM

Agreed.
Running for congress is something people do to make a lot of money, gain some notoriety (if even just locally), and to grandstand.  It's gross.

it definitely isn't attracting the best. and it's also gross how these people become lifers. there absolutely has to be term limits on House of Reps and Senators. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2022, 03:25:21 PM

Why do we pine for "term limits" when it's pretty much an impossibility?

Maybe it's a great idea, but it's not going to happen, and this Convention of the States work around could be a terrible idea.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 29, 2022, 03:30:12 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 29, 2022, 03:20:59 PM

How would a person donate money to media companies?  I want to get in on this.

Can I just write a check to CNN?

In the above situation, money in news media, I think the cure would be worse than the illness.  What folks REALLY want is for the news to be covered the way THEY want it covered.  Sorry, we don't need that at all.

you don't have Bill Gates money, brother. Sorry. The guy is worth around $130-140 billion. And he's got a lot more cash than virtually all of his billionaire homies, as he's been selling Microsoft stock by the truckloads for decades.

There is no way to get out of it. 90+% of all media in US in controlled by 6 mega-corporations now. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2022, 03:36:31 PM

So, how does he donate to them?  Just send a check?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 29, 2022, 03:37:45 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 29, 2022, 03:25:21 PM

Why do we pine for "term limits" when it's pretty much an impossibility?

Maybe it's a great idea, but it's not going to happen, and this Convention of the States work around could be a terrible idea.

it's an impossibility because scumbags and filth like Nancy Pelosi or Joe Biden would never allow it. They want their cush jobs and power for life.

It is a great idea, and it needs to happen if we're ever going to clean this sh*t up. Congressional term limits would provide the legislative branch with fresh blood and new ideas whose primary goal is to serve the interests of their constituents during their short time in Congress- and not the interests of their corporate masters who fund their campaigns which is exactly what we have now.

Term limits on Congress are widely supported by the US population whenever they are asked/surveyed. Polls around 70%. The only serious opponents of term limits are incumbent politicians and their special interests. Hmmmm...wonder why?

Being a Senator or a Congressman was considered a public service by the founders of this country. It wasn't intended to be a career job. It's suppose to be a public service. Not a self-satisfying career job for life that scumbags use to empower and enrich themselves.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 29, 2022, 03:40:50 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 29, 2022, 03:36:31 PM

So, how does he donate to them?  Just send a check? 

I'm not privy to the details, but yeah- I'd imagine he writes them a check or wires them the money. He's good for it. He's only got something like $60 billion in cash.....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2022, 03:44:15 PM

If a thing is impossible, I don't pine for it, or worry about it, or wish it were true.  Term limits are effectively an impossibility.

I tend to doubt Gates sends media companies money for favors.  I don't think he has much need for an expensive PR kind of campaign.  If he does, he'd do it differently than just sending checks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 29, 2022, 03:47:24 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2022, 09:19:28 AM

Florida officials fight back against rowdy spring breakers (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/florida-officials-fight-back-against-rowdy-spring-breakers/ar-AAVADeQ?li=BBnbfcL)

Miami Beach imposed liquor sale bans at 6pm and curfews at midnight.

Miami Beach has gotten so bad. It's sad to see. I wasn't around in Miami in the late 70s or 80s but heard it was pretty bad- cocaine cowboys and all that shit. But in the 90s and 2000-2010 - I was there a lot and it was a lot nicer then than it is now. My god it's a shithlole side show zoo now. And it seems to be getting worse every year now, not better.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 29, 2022, 03:52:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 29, 2022, 03:44:15 PM

If a thing is impossible, I don't pine for it, or worry about it, or wish it were true.  Term limits are effectively an impossibility.

I tend to doubt Gates sends media companies money for favors.  I don't think he has much need for an expensive PR kind of campaign.  If he does, he'd do it differently than just sending checks.

And why are they effectively an impossibility? pure out and out corruption, that's why.

It's not that he sends them money for favors. The mere fact ALONE that he has sent them $320 million in like the last decade alone is preposterous to me.

And it's not necessarily about an expensive PR campaign. It's the fact that if you're a media organization taking this guys money- and you want that money to keep rolling in- you're going to 100% self-censor when it comes to anything Bill Gates.

These are just human beings that run these companies- and a lot of them are losing money and desperate for cash these days. And human beings are prone to corruption and being influenced by money- like every human being on planet earth. Which is why it's a great idea to just not have that money element allowed in in the first place. Gates has given $25 million to NPR alone. You don't think that has any influence on their coverage of him or anything related to him? Yeah, of course it does. He's given The Guardian $13 million. He's given CNN almost $4 million.

If someone gives you $25 million or even $4 million, you're going to get on your knees and fellate him at every opportunity. Which is exactly what NPR and CNN does.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 29, 2022, 03:57:29 PM

https://twitter.com/TimothyWSchwab/status/1448321233326592007?s=20&t=oTm0hxBeWvNLU-r6CNQdQQ

https://twitter.com/TimothyWSchwab/status/1448321263970181124?s=20&t=oTm0hxBeWvNLU-r6CNQdQQ

https://twitter.com/TimothyWSchwab/status/1448321266197356547?s=20&t=oTm0hxBeWvNLU-r6CNQdQQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 29, 2022, 04:02:13 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2022, 09:19:19 AM

NPR needs to be defunded.

yup. defund NPR, not the police.

unfortunately NPR seems to be a pet of Bill Gates' so they aren't ever going to get defunded...

LAST AUGUST, NPR PROFILED A HARVARD-LED EXPERIMENT to help low-income families find housing in wealthier neighborhoods, giving their children access to better schools and an opportunity to “break the cycle of poverty.” According to researchers cited in the article, these children could see $183,000 greater earnings over their lifetimes—a striking forecast for a housing program still in its experimental stage.

If you squint as you read the story, you’ll notice that every quoted expert is connected to the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, which helps fund the project. And if you’re really paying attention, you’ll also see the editor’s note at the end of the story, which reveals that NPR itself receives funding from Gates.

NPR’s funding from Gates “was not a factor in why or how we did the story,” reporter Pam Fessler says, adding that her reporting went beyond the voices quoted in her article. The story, nevertheless, is one of hundreds NPR has reported about the Gates Foundation or the work it funds, including myriad favorable pieces written from the perspective of Gates or its grantees.

And that speaks to a larger trend—and ethical issue—with billionaire philanthropists’ bankrolling the news. The Broad Foundation, whose philanthropic agenda includes promoting charter schools, at one point funded part of the LA Times’ reporting on education. Charles Koch has made charitable donations to journalistic institutions such as the Poynter Institute, as well as to news organizations such as the Daily Caller News Foundation, that support his conservative politics. And the Rockefeller Foundation funds Vox’s Future Perfect, a reporting project that examines the world “through the lens of effective altruism”—often looking at philanthropy.

https://www.cjr.org/criticism/gates-foundation-journalism-funding.php

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 29, 2022, 04:05:16 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 29, 2022, 01:46:45 PM

Rhetorical cleanups pile up for an emotionally undisciplined Biden | TheHill (https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/600185-rhetorical-cleanups-pile-up-for-an-emotionally-undisciplined-biden)


Don Lemon: Criticism of Biden's Putin comments 'media manufactured' | TheHill (https://thehill.com/homenews/media/600195-don-lemon-criticism-of-bidens-putin-comments-media-manufactured)

my god Don Lemon is stupid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2022, 04:24:06 PM

I can't see how Gates can send money to CNN or whoever.  NPR sure, they take donations.  Just alleging he somehow does isn't real evidence to me.  

And it doesn't matter WHY we won't have term limits, it only matters that it will NOT happen, the reasons are obvious.  So, I don't wish we had them anymore than I wish I could win the lottery.  We're not going to have term limits on Congress, so why present it as a desirable option?

Maybe in theoretical world somewhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 29, 2022, 04:29:49 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 29, 2022, 03:20:59 PM

How would a person donate money to media companies?  I want to get in on this.

Can I just write a check to CNN?

In the above situation, money in news media, I think the cure would be worse than the illness.  What folks REALLY want is for the news to be covered the way THEY want it covered.  Sorry, we don't need that at all.

Grants. Companies can apply for funding for a specific project or some such thing.

But the issue remains the same knotty thing. People want to be told the thing that inspires the strong emotions. Much of this thread is a monument to that. We’re oft uncritical about whatever makes us feel most right. Like the majority of our political fireballs start with “media coverage” that hits us at just the right pitch,

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2022, 04:38:54 PM

What is one example of a grant by Gates to CNN or NBC?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 29, 2022, 04:56:47 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 29, 2022, 04:38:54 PM

What is one example of a grant by Gates to CNN or NBC?

They did $3.6 million for some kind of reporting about equality, I think in the developing world. That was in 2020, a year when CNN brought in $1.665 billion.

As far as I can tell, that’s the only CNN contribution.

In the early to mid-2010s, they donated for three years to support some kind of education-focused reporting. That totaled $4.37 million, to a company that I believe made more than $20 billion per year in those years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2022, 05:07:35 PM

So, if I understand this properly, CNN et al. on occasion seek grants to produce shows that otherwise would be commercially ill advised?

And these shows are not necessarily showing some individual in a good light, they are just about various and sundry?  

That's a bit different than just writing a check to get better coverage of the individual personally.  If I'm concerned about say climate change and have the funds to sponsor an hour long show on the topic, well, sounds OK to me.  It might be seen as an inconvenient truth to some, perhaps.

I recall when the fat dude generated movies about this and that topic to make some socially responsible impact about bowling for flowers or something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 29, 2022, 05:13:23 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 29, 2022, 05:07:35 PM

So, if I understand this properly, CNN et al. on occasion seek grants to produce shows that otherwise would be commercially ill advised?

And these shows are not necessarily showing some individual in a good light, they are just about various and sundry? 

That's a bit different than just writing a check to get better coverage of the individual personally.  If I'm concerned about say climate change and have the funds to sponsor an hour long show on the topic, well, sounds OK to me.  It might be seen as an inconvenient truth to some, perhaps.

Pretty much.

I’m rich, I care about such and such an issue. Org X wants to report on such an issue, I throw some cash toward that.

At the base, I do think it’s problematic, but in a deeply mundane way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 29, 2022, 10:18:47 PM

priorities. Terry Pegula is worth only around $6 billion. Not like he couldn't self-fund the stadium. Had to ask the state of NY for help. Lol. 

https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/1508482949418737665?s=20&t=Wm_fnjn6d1IzwLwzUO4unA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 29, 2022, 10:24:04 PM

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Elect stupid people, fund stupid boondoggles.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 29, 2022, 10:35:14 PM

according to latest Harvard CAPS-Harris polling- if Presidential elections were held right now- Trump would edge Biden 47% to 41% - and it'd be even worse for the Dems in a match-up vs Harris.

Mark Penn, the co-director of the Harvard CAPS-Harris Poll survey, said that Trump’s early leads over both Harris and Biden speak less to the former president’s popularity and more to Biden and his administration’s current challenges with voters.

The poll found Biden’s current approval at just 39 percent, while majorities of respondents said that both the U.S. economy and the country as a whole are on the wrong track.


https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1508800410156515344?s=20&t=rtxu7GNlq-a_KWBGrfVBoA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 29, 2022, 10:48:19 PM

looks like Biden's plan to blame everything wrong in America on Putin isn't working....and MSNBC is upset about it lol.

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1508484420944211972?s=20&t=rtxu7GNlq-a_KWBGrfVBoA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 29, 2022, 11:09:32 PM

this is just....really sad...

https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1508922298430107649?s=20&t=JuABkHy50wyH2QJ_95TiVw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2022, 01:43:03 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 29, 2022, 03:25:21 PM

Why do we pine for "term limits" when it's pretty much an impossibility?

Maybe it's a great idea, but it's not going to happen, and this Convention of the States work around could be a terrible idea.

Term limits wouldn't be necessary, except that the masses are idiots.

Exhibit A:  congress has a toilet-bowl approval rating AND 90%+ of them get re-elected


Those 2 facts in concert are indefensible.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 30, 2022, 08:06:22 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2022, 01:43:03 AM

Term limits wouldn't be necessary, except that the masses are idiots.

Exhibit A:  congress has a toilet-bowl approval rating AND 90%+ of them get re-elected


Those 2 facts in concert are indefensible. 

Yes, they are. There is a reason Illinois is in the toilet. The voters must like it that way because they keep voting for the same ass clowns.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2022, 08:30:38 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2022, 01:43:03 AM

Term limits wouldn't be necessary, except that the masses are idiots.

Exhibit A:  congress has a toilet-bowl approval rating AND 90%+ of them get re-elected


Those 2 facts in concert are indefensible. 

The relevant fact is when polled about THEIR Congressman, many find him or her to be just fine, it's the rest of them they don't like.

And we get what we vote for, sort of.  Maybe our System is broken.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 30, 2022, 08:44:42 AM

I think we need to take a REALLY HARD look at lobbyists and how to curb that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2022, 08:54:05 AM

I don't think lobbyists are at the root of the issue.  At the core, they are just folks who want to speak with people in office.  You can make them register, as we have, for all the good that does.  If they all disappeared tomorrow, we'd still have major issues, and little would have been solved.

I view them more as a symptom than a cause.  And who would write legislation for us if not lobbyists?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 30, 2022, 08:56:58 AM

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maiahoskin/2022/03/28/while-were-talking-about-will-smiths-behavior-dont-forget-to-also-talk-about-the-system-that-helped-create-it/?sh=489285d547f0

Famous black man slaps famous black man in front of millions of viewers.  

Cause: white supremacy.  

Their brains aren’t just broken- they are gone completely.  So sadly predictable though. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 30, 2022, 08:57:13 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 30, 2022, 08:54:05 AM

I don't think lobbyists are at the root of the issue.  At the core, they are just folks who want to speak with people in office.  You can make them register, as we have, for all the good that does.  If they all disappeared tomorrow, we'd still have major issues, and little would have been solved.

I view them more as a symptom than a cause.  And who would write legislation for us if not lobbyists?

Our representatives, who are supposed to be acting in OUR interests. The ones who are supposed to serve, and then return to WORK like the people they supposedly represent. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 30, 2022, 08:57:40 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 30, 2022, 08:56:58 AM

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maiahoskin/2022/03/28/while-were-talking-about-will-smiths-behavior-dont-forget-to-also-talk-about-the-system-that-helped-create-it/?sh=489285d547f0

Famous black man slaps famous black man in front of millions of viewers. 

Cause: white supremacy. 

Their brains aren’t just broken- they are gone completely.  So sadly predictable though.

WTF??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2022, 09:06:03 AM

How are things where you live, generally speaking?

Here everything is open, even the Symphony now is not requiring masks or vaccine cards.  Grocery stores seem well stocked, prices of course, well you know.  Gas is hovering around $4 for regular, the gas  tax was dropped temporarily.  The state is sending everyone who paid taxes checks apparently, $500 I think.  They are running a large surplus now, oddly enough.  New construction around us is going like crazy, some proposed projects have yet to break ground.  I'm keeping an eye out for projects being abandoned.  Weather is fantastic though some rain today with wind.  Traffic has been back to normal.  We had maybe 5 restaurants that closed during COVID.  More than that have opened in the past year, especially around Colony Square, I had problems getting a dinner reservation Saturday.  The new Persian restaurant is excellent, our favorite French place closed.  Filming is back close to what it was, this occasionally closes streets etc.  Sometimes I get to watch from our balcony.  There is a large group in the park right now filming something about a purple crayon.

I get conflicting reports about rents not going up, but with all the new buildings just on the market, I suspect they haven't as places compete for new renters giving out freebies to get you to sign.  Real estate is not lasting long on the market esp. single family.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 30, 2022, 09:20:38 AM

Restaurants here are experiencing significant short-staffing problems, to the point that they're only able to seat 30%-40% of their tables, on busy weekend shifts.

This is new.  They were mostly back up to 100% by the summer of 2020.  But now, some aftershock in the employment market, is causing staffing issues.

I suppose it's possible that many of them found New Economy jobs that were more desirable.  But I find it hard to believe they ALL did.  Some people apparently just no longer need money.  Seems weird.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 30, 2022, 09:36:34 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 30, 2022, 08:56:58 AM

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maiahoskin/2022/03/28/while-were-talking-about-will-smiths-behavior-dont-forget-to-also-talk-about-the-system-that-helped-create-it/?sh=489285d547f0

Famous black man slaps famous black man in front of millions of viewers. 

Cause: white supremacy. 

Their brains aren’t just broken- they are gone completely.  So sadly predictable though.

We have a certain economy for highlighting freaks.

This is a very dumb, bad article. But publishing it generates more revenue than a smarter article, precisely because we will share it to say how dumb it is. Just posting it and having us click to gawk encourages the outlet to publish more like it, and makes the writer more in-demand.

So in a way it is predicable. It’s the content our actions say we want to see.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 30, 2022, 09:37:28 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2022, 01:43:03 AM

Term limits wouldn't be necessary, except that the masses are idiots.

Exhibit A:  congress has a toilet-bowl approval rating AND 90%+ of them get re-elected


Those 2 facts in concert are indefensible. 

this is 100% accurate. but at the same time, it was also never intended by the founders for people to be in office for 40 years like Biden or McConnell or Pelosi. And Congressional districts today are freaking bought and sold as most areas are so gerrymandered the nominee of one party is virtually guaranteed victory and whoever raises the most money from said party wins that seat. We don't have a functioning democracy. Instead, we have a permanent political class, funded and controlled by corporations, wealthy businessmen, and special interests.

It was intended to a public service for a couple terms to SERVE THE PUBLIC, not a freaking life-long career in self-dealing to enrich yourself. We put term limits on the most powerful single politician in the US- the President. No reason why we can't do it on the Senate and House of Representatives. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 30, 2022, 09:42:32 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 30, 2022, 08:44:42 AM

I think we need to take a REALLY HARD look at lobbyists and how to curb that.

Amen brother. Dan Rather did an excellent piece about lobbyists in the late 2000s or early 2010s. After Rather had gotten fired from CBS News, Mark Cuban hired him to do a show on a satellite TV network HDNet. It was honestly a great show- and actual news. Because: Cuban was filthy rich already and really didn't give a shit about making money- and the channel was a niche channel on DirecTV and DishNetwork.

The lobbying problem is only worse now. It's basically just a legalized bribery operation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 30, 2022, 09:54:49 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 30, 2022, 08:56:58 AM

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maiahoskin/2022/03/28/while-were-talking-about-will-smiths-behavior-dont-forget-to-also-talk-about-the-system-that-helped-create-it/?sh=489285d547f0

Famous black man slaps famous black man in front of millions of viewers. 

Cause: white supremacy. 

Their brains aren’t just broken- they are gone completely.  So sadly predictable though.

white supremacy/white privilege is bullsh*t tactic/narrative/propaganda - whatever you want to call it- used by media to rile up the population and divide and split everything down racial lines and avoid talking about the real problem: class.

Will Smith is in the class of the ultra-wealthy and elite. And not only is he the biggest black movie star in American history, he's one of the biggest movie stars period in American history. I mean probably only Tom Cruise has been a bigger movie star. Will Smith is unimaginably wealthy- he's worth half a billion dollars easily- and he is literally one of the most famous people on planet earth- and he is literally one of the most privileged people on planet earth. You want to talk about privilege? He just assaulted a man on live tv for the world to see, then goes and sits back down in his seat and starts screaming obscenities at the top of his lungs like a maniac.... then he doesn't get kicked out or escorted out of the building by security or have charges pressed by authorities- like he should've been- like ANYONE else named Will Smith who wasn't an enormously famous, ultra-wealthy giant movie star would've been- he gets to stay in his seat and go up and win an award just a few minutes later. Where was the security? It was a complete joke. Academy should've kicked him out of the ceremony immediately and he should've had his award stripped. That was the height of f**king privilege. And notice how he did that to Chris Rock, a guy that's all of 5'9/5'10, 160 pounds soaking wet. Will Smith is 6'2, 210+. He wouldn't have got up out of his seat and slapped The Rock if it was The Rock making that joke and not Chris Rock. BITCH move to strike someone who is way smaller than you because you know they won't hit you back.

I used to really like Will Smith, but f**k that guy. For real.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 30, 2022, 09:59:29 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 30, 2022, 09:36:34 AM

We have a certain economy for highlighting freaks.

This is a very dumb, bad article. But publishing it generates more revenue than a smarter article, precisely because we will share it to say how dumb it is. Just posting it and having us click to gawk encourages the outlet to publish more like it, and makes the writer more in-demand.

So in a way it is predicable. It’s the content our actions say we want to see.

Disagree. These people are really that dumb. And there are a lot of racial justice, woke warriors in the media today. And they are all clowns.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 30, 2022, 09:59:49 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 30, 2022, 08:44:42 AM

I think we need to take a REALLY HARD look at lobbyists and how to curb that.

It’s a really interesting bit because of the free speech implications involved.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 30, 2022, 10:01:17 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 30, 2022, 08:54:05 AM

I don't think lobbyists are at the root of the issue.  At the core, they are just folks who want to speak with people in office.  You can make them register, as we have, for all the good that does.  If they all disappeared tomorrow, we'd still have major issues, and little would have been solved.

I view them more as a symptom than a cause.  And who would write legislation for us if not lobbyists?

LOL. Nah. It's merely a form of legalized bribery. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NowpCswP40c

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 30, 2022, 10:02:42 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 30, 2022, 09:59:29 AM

Disagree. These people are really that dumb. And there are a lot of racial justice, woke warriors in the media today. And they are all clowns.

Correct. And when we share out that stuff, it generates revenue for the media company, which and turn more money going to people writing such things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 30, 2022, 10:04:25 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 30, 2022, 10:02:42 AM

Correct. And when we share out that stuff, it generates revenue for the media company, which and turn more money going to people writing such things.

The dumb get richer and propagate.  An Idiocracy, if you will.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 30, 2022, 10:04:42 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 30, 2022, 09:59:49 AM

It’s a really interesting bit because of the free speech implications involved.

money does not = speech and corporations are not people. period.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 30, 2022, 10:08:36 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 30, 2022, 10:04:25 AM

The dumb get richer and propagate.  An Idiocracy, if you will.

Sort of. They produce things we “want.” We really want to dunk on people we think are goons. We want to do that more than consume sane content. So we get more things to dunk on. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 30, 2022, 10:09:24 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 30, 2022, 10:04:42 AM

money does not = speech and corporations are not people. period.

Perhaps I’m the sort it doesn’t. But in the America in which we live, sure does. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 30, 2022, 10:10:34 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 30, 2022, 10:08:36 AM

Sort of. They produce things we “want.” We really want to dunk on people we think are goons. We want to do that more than consume sane content. So we get more things to dunk on.

That's just another iteration of the long degenerative path.  None of this is new.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on March 30, 2022, 10:23:02 AM

Quote from: SuperMario on March 28, 2022, 01:00:31 PM

You're entire post is tremendous. A couple points really stuck out to me:  the wealth gap is widening tremendously. The amount of consumer debt people are taking on is eye-opening and scary. An additional layer to that is the balances of student loan debt in comparison to the annual income in so many cases makes no sense. People are taking on student loan debt balances that are never justified by their income level. Secondly, the level of auto loans in comparison to income levels is also scary. Not to mention 84 month auto loans becoming far more commonplace.

To further elaborate on the poverty angle, my worry about America’s rising poverty is how American poverty is more unforgiving and dangerous as more options for self-destruction emerge as time goes on.

In broad terms, Non-First World nations are usually comprised of a small, all powerful elite classes that, to quote Fitzgerald, float “safe and proud above the hot struggles of the poor.” Their poor may constitute upwards of 90% of the population (Venezuela).

Their poverty is so institutionalized and resigned to fatalism, that it’s lived out more acceptably in its own sort of self-sustaining deprivation. In other words, the poverty of the Balkans or Eastern Europe’s “second world” is more so left to itself. Yes there’s alcoholism, illiteracy, malnutrition, domestic abuse, idleness, and minimal upward opportunity, but there’s also family and a social togetherness that can keep you from fully self-destructing. For instance, courts force the families of those sleeping on sidewalks to give account for why their son or daughter is homeless.

Conversely, America’s growing “street poverty” (especially on the West Coast) is worse because in its expanding numbers it has no such social safety net, save for the good souls of volunteer organizations and food banks. But even worse, the poorest aren’t left to themselves in their poverty; namely all those tent cities from L.A. to Portland are overrun with indentured drug abuse. Anyone ending up on the streets is actively pressured into drug addiction and prostitution that’s profitable for the criminal element working the streets.

And whereas poverty most everywhere else in the world is something you’re born into, I worry that America’s increasing “street poverty” is driven by the Americanized traps set for it through its two added options for self-destruction: 1) greater levels of personal debt and 2) rampant overprescribing of highly addictive Opiates (Percocet, Oxycodone), Benzos (Xanax, Klonopin), and Z-drugs (Ambien, Adderall), all three groups of which increase their user’s willingness to A) try street drugs (Heroin, Meth), B) try designer drugs (Cocaine, Ecstasy), and C) unsafely combine with prescriptions or mix with alcohol or “lean drink.” Not to forget how highly fatal Fentanyl continues saturating its way into A) and B).

Only America offers such a layered, complex, and dangerous drug reality.

In short, whereas poverty around the world is mostly born from itself, I worry America’s poverty is compounded by those also unable to keep up with the 9 to 5 life by way of personal debt and a cultural saturation of drug use.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 30, 2022, 10:26:01 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 30, 2022, 10:08:36 AM

Sort of. They produce things we “want.” We really want to dunk on people we think are goons. We want to do that more than consume sane content. So we get more things to dunk on.

:34:  It didn’t take you long to come in here and turn the tide of this against those writing this garbage. That is your MO.

Do you realize that this is not a one off article by some off-the-shelf rag but rather a narrative that’s been picked up by many in the mainstream media? That was Forbes.  There are many others- it’s their narrative  It’s not for clicks. It’s what they believe. Defend it all you want.  Blame those who are hearing this absolute garbage instead of calling out the morons writing it.  That’s your thing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 30, 2022, 10:37:17 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 30, 2022, 10:26:01 AM

:34:  It didn’t take you long to come in here and turn the tide of this against those writing this garbage. That is your MO.

Do you realize that this is not a one off article by some off-the-shelf rag but rather a narrative that’s been picked up by many in the mainstream media? That was Forbes.  There are many others- it’s their narrative  It’s not for clicks. It’s what they believe. Defend it all you want.  Blame those who are hearing this absolute garbage instead of calling out the morons writing it.  That’s your thing. 

My thing is to warn people to not encourage things they don’t want to see in the world by pointing out the things that encourage it. I do this because I work in marketing and am oft impressed in the cynical side of it.

We’re pretty deep into the calling out cycle on all sides. Back and forth, back and forth, year after year. And the morons in both sides, they seem stronger than ever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 30, 2022, 10:44:27 AM

longhorn not understand what you are talking about

please use words a steer can understand

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 30, 2022, 11:00:59 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 30, 2022, 10:44:27 AM

longhorn not understand what you are talking about

please use words a steer can understand

After double checking the meaning of the word steer, I hope that’s not you :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 30, 2022, 11:20:29 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 30, 2022, 10:37:17 AM

My thing is to warn people to not encourage things they don’t want to see in the world by pointing out the things that encourage it. I do this because I work in marketing and am oft impressed in the cynical side of it.

We’re pretty deep into the calling out cycle on all sides. Back and forth, back and forth, year after year. And the morons in both sides, they seem stronger than ever.

If we’re going to have a policy of “ignore the things in the world that you strongly disagree with and you think are dangerous“ then let’s be universal about it. Let’s stop talking about Ukraine and anything else where people have differences of opinion.   

Silly- isn’t it.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2022, 11:22:24 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 30, 2022, 10:04:42 AM

money does not = speech and corporations are not people. period.

Corporations do have some of the same rights as individuals.  Drawing that line if what the decision was about.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 30, 2022, 11:24:44 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 30, 2022, 11:00:59 AM

After double checking the meaning of the word steer, I hope that’s not you :)

are you making fun of longhorn

longhorn not like that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 30, 2022, 11:34:07 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 30, 2022, 11:24:44 AM

are you making fun of longhorn

longhorn not like that

Not making fun. It read like you called yourself a steer, and that’s a treatment I wish on no man.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2022, 11:35:01 AM

I mentioned before I was on the fringe of a lobbying effort.  It related to a patent bill before Congress.  The area is highly technical, and if left to actual people in Congress it could not possibly come out well.  The same is true for their aids.  A lot of these bills are very involved and very technical, not something a generalist can write or consider.

What Congress has done largely to date is basically say something like "Pollution is a problem, we're creating an Executive agency to fix it, with power to do stuff."

They have shifted power to the Executive branch in abdicating their authority, because they can't handle such issues.  Then the "EPA" (in this case) hires bureaucrats and "experts" of whatever ilk and is empowered then to do stuff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 30, 2022, 11:46:19 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 30, 2022, 11:35:01 AM

I mentioned before I was on the fringe of a lobbying effort.  It related to a patent bill before Congress.  The area is highly technical, and if left to actual people in Congress it could not possibly come out well.  The same is true for their aids.  A lot of these bills are very involved and very technical, not something a generalist can write or consider.

What Congress has done largely to date is basically say something like "Pollution is a problem, we're creating an Executive agency to fix it, with power to do stuff."

They have shifted power to the Executive branch in abdicating their authority, because they can't handle such issues.  Then the "EPA" (in this case) hires bureaucrats and "experts" of whatever ilk and is empowered then to do stuff.

Ah yes, our 4th branch of government. Wonderful.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2022, 11:47:37 AM

I see no alternative in practical terms.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 30, 2022, 11:50:15 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 30, 2022, 11:34:07 AM

Not making fun. It read like you called yourself a steer, and that’s a treatment I wish on no man.

You are not up with the times

Longhorn can now think its fully equipped and therefore it is

my pronouns are he his him

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2022, 11:59:48 AM

In 2021, the Atlanta Realtors Association said the average sales price for a home was $378,000. Now, it's $445,000.

New housing data shows potential home buyers in Atlanta have fewer options to own a home – WSB-TV Channel 2 - Atlanta (wsbtv.com) (https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/new-housing-data-shows-potential-home-buyers-atlanta-have-fewer-options-own-home/Q6NJHG5O3JEFJEG2HBFMI2AYCU/?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3mczrUlb9AzBDhdhe4ibeLLSc5ldS-yzou-KIi7sO6f3KPrhj8Kyw2x4c)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 30, 2022, 12:39:18 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 30, 2022, 11:35:01 AM

I mentioned before I was on the fringe of a lobbying effort.  It related to a patent bill before Congress.  The area is highly technical, and if left to actual people in Congress it could not possibly come out well.  The same is true for their aids.  A lot of these bills are very involved and very technical, not something a generalist can write or consider.

What Congress has done largely to date is basically say something like "Pollution is a problem, we're creating an Executive agency to fix it, with power to do stuff."

They have shifted power to the Executive branch in abdicating their authority, because they can't handle such issues.  Then the "EPA" (in this case) hires bureaucrats and "experts" of whatever ilk and is empowered then to do stuff.

I think you nailed the real issue here. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2022, 01:08:49 PM

I got myself backed into dealing with OSHA, twice, and lab safety in general.  The OSHA inspector could not understand the CFR (nor could I), he was on the phone with DC for a while and still couldn't figure it out.  It had one rule in conflict with another CFR regulation.  I then was viewed as some kind of regulatory "expert", which relative to our own regulatory experts was likely the case.

EPA regs conflicted with local MSW regs, directly and specifically.   The local regs were written by a simpleton.  That got fairly entertaining as work goes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 30, 2022, 01:11:25 PM

So what's your solution? Bringing the regulatory agencies directly under control of Congress as a Westminster-style Government?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2022, 01:14:41 PM

No, my "solution" if you asked me is to realize that such imperfections are inherent in large governmental entities.  Inherent.  We can at best correct a bit, maybe, I don't see it happening though.

Much/most of our legislation is high technical, by its very nature, and I don't expect Congress to be able to provide coherent comprehensive legislation on those topics.

I do expect them to posture and make claims about how the other side is getting away with murder.  The job of a Congressman is to get reelected.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2022, 02:31:33 PM

Manchin shoots down Biden's new billionaire tax plan  | TheHill (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/600282-manchin-shoots-down-bidens-new-billionaire-tax-plan)

“Here’s what they do. They go to their accountant. They tell their accountant, ‘Make sure I don’t make any income, any salary.’ And then they say, ‘Make sure I can buy, borrow and die.’ And nobody knew anything about that years ago, and now people are pretty up on it,” said Senate Finance Committee Chairman Ron Wyden (https://thehill.com/people/ron-wyden) (D-Ore.), who has announced his own proposal to tax the unrealized gains of billionaires.


Holy cow, this guy is an idiot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 30, 2022, 03:14:19 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 30, 2022, 01:11:25 PM

So what's your solution? Bringing the regulatory agencies directly under control of Congress as a Westminster-style Government?

For one, you greatly reduce the size of all of the agencies, and eliminate many. Then, you contract the work to people who can actually do said work.

Government is too big, period.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2022, 04:29:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 30, 2022, 08:54:05 AM

I don't think lobbyists are at the root of the issue.  At the core, they are just folks who want to speak with people in office.  You can make them register, as we have, for all the good that does.  If they all disappeared tomorrow, we'd still have major issues, and little would have been solved.

I view them more as a symptom than a cause.  And who would write legislation for us if not lobbyists?

This is amazing.
I guess you can find at least 1 person to defend just about anything.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2022, 04:53:18 PM

I don't believe I defended lobbyists.  I opined they were not the root cause of the main issues with government.  They are a means for the People to converse with our Representatives, and not all of them support Exxon et al.

It's facile to attach blame for a complex problem to one or two things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2022, 05:58:00 PM

With at least 75 million foreign tourists per year, France is the most visited country in the world and maintains the third-largest income in the world from tourism.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2022, 06:10:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 29, 2022, 02:47:50 PM

It’s Time to Rethink America’s Corn System - Scientific American (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/time-to-rethink-corn/)

40% of our corn goes to ethanol for fuel.

imagine the price of corn without Ethanol

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 30, 2022, 06:11:11 PM

I love France.  The only problem with France, is the French!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 30, 2022, 06:12:46 PM

I had no idea the majority of corn goes to ethanol

we should quit that and start exporting it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 30, 2022, 09:25:17 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 30, 2022, 06:11:11 PM

I love France.  The only problem with France, is the French!

I've found outside of Paris, in the smaller towns- they are pretty cool. The Parisians are 100000% f**king assholes though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 30, 2022, 09:25:56 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 30, 2022, 02:31:33 PM

Manchin shoots down Biden's new billionaire tax plan  | TheHill (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/600282-manchin-shoots-down-bidens-new-billionaire-tax-plan)

“Here’s what they do. They go to their accountant. They tell their accountant, ‘Make sure I don’t make any income, any salary.’ And then they say, ‘Make sure I can buy, borrow and die.’ And nobody knew anything about that years ago, and now people are pretty up on it,” said Senate Finance Committee Chairman Ron Wyden (https://thehill.com/people/ron-wyden) (D-Ore.), who has announced his own proposal to tax the unrealized gains of billionaires.


Holy cow, this guy is an idiot.

Ron Wyden is one of the few good guys on many things- and he's not that far off here. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 30, 2022, 09:38:21 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2022, 04:29:34 PM

This is amazing.
I guess you can find at least 1 person to defend just about anything.

lobbyists just want to talk. they are good guys. with no agenda. duh. :043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 30, 2022, 09:41:11 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 30, 2022, 03:14:19 PM

For one, you greatly reduce the size of all of the agencies, and eliminate many. Then, you contract the work to people who can actually do said work.

Government is too big, period.

100%. And they ALWAYS make it bigger and more bloated. Constantly adding new agencies and departments (DHS, TSA, ICE) or bloating, expanding, and bastardizing existing ones (Capitol Police). 

W was one of the worst Presidents ever- as he expanded the federal government to unprecedented levels. Not to mention got us into two illegal wars & occupations. F***k that guy for real. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2022, 09:54:09 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 30, 2022, 06:12:46 PM

I had no idea the majority of corn goes to ethanol

we should quit that and start exporting it

youse steers suck at percentages

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 30, 2022, 10:00:53 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 30, 2022, 09:41:11 PM

100%. And they ALWAYS make it bigger and more bloated. Constantly adding new agencies and departments (DHS, TSA, ICE) or bloating, expanding, and bastardizing existing ones (Capitol Police).

W was one of the worst Presidents ever- as he expanded the federal government to unprecedented levels. Not to mention got us into two illegal wars & occupations. F***k that guy for real.

It was that slime ball in a sea of puss Cheney that I wouldn't piss on if he was on fire.I really can't imagine a slimier steaming pile than him,maybe Pelosi.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2022, 10:25:17 PM

MANKATO — The Mankato Mills Fleet Farm became the second local fuel seller in three months to be ordered by the state of Minnesota to stop selling gasoline so cheaply and to pay a substantial financial penalty for illegally low gasoline prices last spring and summer that resulted in area drivers paying some of the lowest prices in the state.

Fleet Farm joins Sam's Club in agreeing to pay a $40,000 civil penalty, although each company will see half of the total forgiven if it stays in compliance with Minnesota's fuel pricing law in the future, according to the Department of Commerce. The law aims to keep large fuel sellers from offering fuel at extremely low levels to drive smaller competitors out of the market.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 30, 2022, 10:51:49 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 30, 2022, 09:25:17 PM

I've found outside of Paris, in the smaller towns- they are pretty cool. The Parisians are 100000% f**king assholes though.

Indeed, I completely agree.  I was making a cheap joke at the expense of all the nice folks out in the provinces.  My apologies to Mrs. CD.

Even in Paris, I've found some decent folk.  I don't think it's really all that different than London or New York or many other very large cities.  Big city folk just tend to be less polite and more impersonal, all the world around.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 31, 2022, 12:15:12 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 30, 2022, 10:51:49 PM

Even in Paris, I've found some decent folk.  I don't think it's really all that different than London or New York or many other very large cities.  Big city folk just tend to be less polite and more impersonal, all the world around.

yeah also very true. the more people there are in one small confined area- the more you're just bound to run into more assholes or someone just having a bad day. it's a simple numbers game.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2022, 06:59:56 AM

I've had good luck in Paris so long as I get far away from tourists.  It's the tourists that make Parisians annoying, and annoyed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2022, 07:01:05 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 30, 2022, 09:25:56 PM

Ron Wyden is one of the few good guys on many things- and he's not that far off here.

Do you think 20 years ago billionaires didn't understand this tactic?  Or 50 years ago?

That strikes me as completely idiotic twaddle.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2022, 07:04:31 AM

Government will always grow larger, no matter the rhetoric.  Until one day it doesn't.  That would be a calamity.

A lot of the things we don't like about government are simply inherent.  One can of course say "Well, lobbyists are horrible, we should get rid of them.", but it isn't going to happen (nor would it really fix much of anything).  We can say we'd prefer smaller government, but it isn't going to happen.  We can say we would like to end the corn ethanol program, but that too isn't going to happen.  Iowa, caucuses etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2022, 07:04:56 AM

The Memo: Border surge spells trouble for Biden, Democrats  | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/600418-the-memo-border-surge-spells-trouble-for-biden-democrats/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 31, 2022, 10:35:31 AM

he's right. it is pretty f***king crazy how so many right-wing nutjob Bush/Cheney goons/servants/scumbags have found new homes as stars for "liberal" media and the Democratic party and "the resistance!". The "resistance" lmao. And don't even get me started on those "resistance!" and "never trumper!" retards- so f***king god damn lame and stupid- literal morons. How do people not see right through pieces of literal human shit like David Frum or Bill Kristol or Nicole Wallace?

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1509310434679177222?s=20&t=BgFbD_cmNmKTMfQCQPBc_Q

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1509311474946215936?s=20&t=BgFbD_cmNmKTMfQCQPBc_Q

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 31, 2022, 10:42:10 AM

MSNBC is something else....had to throw in that bullshit cheerleading line...."despite booming economy" :043:

record levels of inflation, home prices out of control and unaffordable for the working class- rent increases all across the country- in some markets as much as 30%- regular people can barely afford gas, food, healthcare, cars, and rent.

https://twitter.com/NathanJRobinson/status/1509216543539970051?s=20&t=BgFbD_cmNmKTMfQCQPBc_Q

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2022, 10:53:25 AM

The US economy has been expanding rapidly by about any metric one wishes to use.  I have a real fear that is about to reverse.

The unemployment rate is quite low as well.  Anyone can pick this or that metric to show good or bad times often as not.  And of course the GDP growth rates reflect a recovery from the COVID recession, not really much else.

For all of 2021, the nation’s gross domestic product — its total output of goods and services — jumped by 5.7%, the fastest calendar-year growth since a 7.2% surge in 1984 in the aftermath of a brutal recession.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2022, 12:24:15 PM

Biden faces fire from left on increased defense spending | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/600416-biden-faces-fire-from-left-on-increased-defense-spending/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 31, 2022, 12:47:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 31, 2022, 06:59:56 AM

I've had good luck in Paris so long as I get far away from tourists.  It's the tourists that make Parisians annoying, and annoyed.

I get it. I don't go anywhere near downtown Austin during ACL Festival or SXSW Festival.  I can't imagine 9 months of that, when a few weeks is more than enough.

Nevertheless, tourists are tourists, and tourist attractions are attractive for a reason.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2022, 12:52:36 PM

I like the old Yogi Berra quote about a restaurant:

"It's so crowded nobody goes there any more."

The main part of Paris is about tourists of course, it's almost akin to Las Vegas more than a French city IMHO.  But you can find nice "real" spots like in St. Germaine that are germane but not German.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 31, 2022, 01:00:10 PM

I love the Shaw quote in Pygmalion

"The French don't care what they do actually as long as you pronounce it properly"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2022, 01:00:55 PM

That sounds like my wife.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2022, 01:39:38 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/bsrNEpk.png)

Rostov, 1941, the Nazis made it that far before being thrown back some.  They retook it in 1942 and then lost it for good in early 1943.  This is a Panzerjager I, the first "real" German tank destroyer.  It was not very good in an urban context for obvious reasons.  A bit later the Germans converted Czech tanks to TDs by mounting captured Russian 76 mm guns.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 31, 2022, 04:25:18 PM

Today has been a "red letter" day in the life of Joe Biden's presidency

1 - He has elected to release another 1M barrels of oil from our Federal Reserve but at the same time has not taken any action to increase oil production. 

2 - He is set to lift Title 42 covid restriction at the southern border in May which will increase our daily illegal crossings by up to 100%
If this happens with no alternative restrictions being implemented it will by catastrophic

3 - This is my favorite - Joe Biden has endorsed sex change surgery and hormone therapy for children

Please Lord do something before this country is completely destroyed
I just hope we can hold on till the mid terms

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2022, 04:31:33 PM

The White House also used Thursday’s announcement to criticize the domestic energy industry for “sitting on” more than 12 million acres of federal land and 9,000 unused but already approved permits for production.
Specifically, Biden implored lawmakers to impose fees on companies that aren’t using wells from their leases on acres of public lands.
“Companies that are producing from their leased acres and existing wells will not face higher fees,” the administration said. “But companies that continue to sit on non-producing acres will have to choose whether to start producing or pay a fee for each idled well and unused acre.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 31, 2022, 04:55:25 PM

The administration could be doing more to encourage increased oil production

https://www.westernenergyalliance.org/blog/responding-to-the-white-house-blame-game-on-leases

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2022, 05:04:41 PM

They could be, I'm not sure much difference it would make domestically.  We should reach record production next year anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2022, 07:18:05 PM

Biden is opening strategic oil reserves to lower gas prices — but at what cost? (msnbc.com) (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/biden-opening-strategic-oil-reserves-lower-gas-prices-what-cost-n1293761)

I chuckled, as if green energy is there for the taking.  This person apparently gets published by a somewhat noted new web site.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 31, 2022, 07:22:52 PM

If the US uses over 19M barrels of oil each day what difference will 1M barrels from our reserve make but to just lower our reserve

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2022, 09:28:36 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 31, 2022, 04:25:18 PM

Please Lord do something before this country is completely destroyed

Biden isn't going to destroy our country.
Obama didn't.
Clinton didn't.

Grow up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 31, 2022, 09:35:31 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2022, 09:28:36 PM

Biden isn't going to destroy our country.
Obama didn't.
Clinton didn't.

Grow up.

He sure is working hard at it

I would trade for Obama or Clinton is a split second no questions asked.

This guy is dangerous.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 31, 2022, 11:21:34 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2022, 09:28:36 PM

Obama didn't.
Clinton didn't.

they kinda did. throw Bush II in the lot with 'em as awful. All three of them were unmitigated disasters, and their policies lead us to the place were at right now and their failures, mistakes, and lies are precisely why we got Trump. I think you have to go back to Bush I to find a competent President. So of course he was voted out of office after only one term.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 01, 2022, 12:05:25 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 31, 2022, 07:22:52 PM

If the US uses over 19M barrels of oil each day what difference will 1M barrels from our reserve make but to just lower our reserve

For clarity's sake, it's a million per day. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 01, 2022, 02:45:42 AM

looks like 1M barrels per day for 30 days or 30M barrels 

same question as before

the us uses over 18M barrels a day so the 30M would not even be 2 days worth

but would represent 5% of our oil reserve

its all a show with no real benefit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 06:27:36 AM

Some folks claimed 0.83 million bpd from Keystone XL would make a difference.

And that oil from Canada is still getting shipped and used, just by rail (mostly).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on April 01, 2022, 07:00:01 AM

The Biden Administration will use the Defense Production Act to increase battery production for electric vehicles.  Energy problem solved and no further need for the Strategic Petroleum Reserve.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 07:17:21 AM

In politics, one has to be seen as "doing something", even if the somethings are trivial in reality.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 01, 2022, 07:18:57 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2022, 09:28:36 PM

Biden isn't going to destroy our country.
Obama didn't.
Clinton didn't.

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 31, 2022, 11:21:34 PM

they kinda did. throw Bush II in the lot with 'em as awful. All three of them were unmitigated disasters, and their policies lead us to the place were at right now and their failures, mistakes, and lies are precisely why we got Trump. I think you have to go back to Bush I to find a competent President. So of course he was voted out of office after only one term.

I don't pretend to know whose policies led to what.An Old family friend in his 70s now whose father was some type of engineer for TRW back in the day.Worked & designed I believe landing gear & such for air craft before/during/after WWII.Anyway he was a life long Democrat - FDR,Truman,Kennedy - a party he wouldn't recognize today. He used to tell his son "I don't care who Kennedy is screwing - he isn't screwing me".That's how I felt about Clinton,I'm convinced his wife is Satan's sister and the man himself is a lying,condescending whoor. But during Clinton's Presidency this country was humming financially, I recall the '90s as being very good economically for the middle class - which I am firmly entrenched. 911 is when the worm started turning - DOWN, IMHO when there were signs recovery following then the housing market collapsed that some folks are still feeling the sting.There were the two Wars that Cheney certainly beneffitted from maybe Dubya also.Of course during that all conected members of congress sold stocks and were outed for it.They were slapped on the wrist and laws were passed(supposedly). Unfortunately as covid situation unfoded- Finestein,maybe Pelosi and a few others sold their portfolios and SHIT was done to them.Also the Russian War seems to ensure an ongoing tailspin that just might change this country forever. Every God Damned policy put into law by Lobbyists should be scratched & out lawed. That benefit both parties.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 07:22:10 AM

The 1990s were good in large part because of the Peace Dividend.  Good economies often are the result of policies instituted years before.  And of course the decade ended with a mildish recession, the dot com bubble burst.

No President is going to "destroy the country", that is foolishness, political folderol, some Presidents can make poor decisions and choices that cause harm.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 01, 2022, 07:39:18 AM

Forgot about the Dot-Com bubble.My brother in law who is a shameless morally bankrupt hack & worked for one of the big investment houses knowingly sold those. Cindy being just the opposite of him only sees him at Funerals sadly. He tried selling his dying mother life insurance policies - she couldn't afford.And sold his aunt just north of 100k in Dot.Coms that went south but she could afford the hit. I asked for proof he invested in them which of course he hemmed and hawed and couldn't provide. I wouldn't be too upset if he was penciled in for a visit from the Grim Reaper

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 07:44:55 AM

At the time, circa 1999, I was reading investment stories about how "this time it's different" when valuations got ridiculous.  That was my warning.

I was dollar cost averaging with more mundane investments for the long term, so it really didn't matter to me either.  The 2008-9 hit got me some because I was nearing retirement and had most of my savings locked where I couldn't do much with them.  I figured it meant I'd need to work another year or two.

The markets came back of course so I didn't need to, but could have.  After retirement, you can't just work another year or two.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 07:50:45 AM

The Hubble was able to observe the star, called Earendel — yep, that is a "Lord of the Rings" term — because of a fortunate alignment behind a galaxy cluster, which generated a gravitational lens effect magnifying the very distant celestial entity. Light from the star was emitted 900 million years after the Big Bang and took 12.9 billion years to travel to Earth. That makes it on edge of space-time continuum according to Big Bang theory.

RECORD BROKEN: Hubble Space Telescope Captures Stunning Image Of 'A Star At The Edge Of Space-Time' (physics-astronomy.com) (https://www.physics-astronomy.com/2022/03/record-broken-nasa-releases-stunning.html?fbclid=IwAR2_FjuqzWvEYPJD4GXj8ZCV3uDgqO1YSK5mO4PsgP-to-FQPhwCMl3MO3U)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 07:56:53 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/PwbvaxG.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 01, 2022, 08:34:53 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 31, 2022, 04:31:33 PM

The White House also used Thursday’s announcement to criticize the domestic energy industry for “sitting on” more than 12 million acres of federal land and 9,000 unused but already approved permits for production.
Specifically, Biden implored lawmakers to impose fees on companies that aren’t using wells from their leases on acres of public lands.
“Companies that are producing from their leased acres and existing wells will not face higher fees,” the administration said. “But companies that continue to sit on non-producing acres will have to choose whether to start producing or pay a fee for each idled well and unused acre.”

Having a lease does not equate to being able to drill and transport oil. The Biden admin has made it hard to almost impossible to get a permit to drill or build roads/pipelines to transport that oil once the well is operational. Not to mention the pressure being applied to lenders to NOT lend to oil companies. Without the permits, the leases are useless.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 01, 2022, 08:38:14 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 31, 2022, 07:22:52 PM

If the US uses over 19M barrels of oil each day what difference will 1M barrels from our reserve make but to just lower our reserve

His plan is to release this oil for 6 months in a hope to bring down oil prices. And what happens roughly around that time frame? Can anyone guess?

This is nothing but a political maneuver in an attempt to bring down gas prices in the short term so that Democrats are not slaughtered at the polls in Nov. That is NOT the pupose of the Stratigic Oil Reserve. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 08:48:35 AM

Nearly as I can tell, this may reduce oil prices by 3-5%, temporarily, maybe.  So, instead of paying $4.20, maybe you pay $4.  Suspending gas taxes does about the same price reduction, a bit more probably.  It's not enough to make a difference.

When COVID hit, we could have bought oil on the cheap to fill up the SPR but didn't.  That would have softened the blow to the oil markets some and government could sell some now to make a pretty penny.  Buy low sell high is not a governmental ability.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2022, 09:04:33 AM

Gas at my Costco is now down to $3.57, so clearly this extra barrel or two of oil has done the trick.

As I recall it was $3.13 in the days before the Russian invasion, and something like $1.60 just before the November 2020 election.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 09:07:55 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/T62Gd2Z.png)

The national average on election day was about $2.09.  It went up quickly to March and then trended higher to February of this year when is shot up.  This likely tracks increased demand until Ukraine happened.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2022, 09:18:45 AM

2020... the good old days.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 09:29:06 AM

When the economy was slammed by COVID, yes we had cheap gas, no doubt about it.  But it wasn't necessarily a good thing.

If the economy is slammed by a bad recession, we'll have cheaper gas again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2022, 09:31:21 AM

Paid $7.25 on the water Monday. 100 gallons.

One year ago we paid $3.80.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 01, 2022, 09:38:16 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2022, 09:31:21 AM

Paid $7.25 on the water Monday. 100 gallons.

One year ago we paid $3.80.

So the average price of gas went up 47% but this supplier has raised it 90%? Interesting

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2022, 09:39:36 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 01, 2022, 09:38:16 AM

So the average price of gas went up 47% but this supplier has raised it 90%? Interesting

Marinas always charge a premium.  A substantial premium.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2022, 09:41:54 AM

Speaking of marinas, I'm looking at one of these right now:



(https://i.imgur.com/vBzBDTS.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2022, 09:42:21 AM

A very high percentage of that premium is due to insurance requirements. A spill on the water is vastly different than a land spill.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2022, 09:43:32 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 01, 2022, 09:41:54 AM

Speaking of marinas, I'm looking at one of these right now:



(https://i.imgur.com/vBzBDTS.png)

What do you want that for? Be better off sticking with your Cobalt, or buying a newer one. Much more versatile. You ain't getting younger.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2022, 09:48:30 AM

Kids are wakeboarding and wakesurfing now.  The Cobalt isn't very good for either one of those things.  And this boat is a fantastic cruiser, too.  It's huge and heavy.  It's not great for slalom skiing, but it's not any worse than the Cobalt.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 09:51:57 AM

Has anyone developed a battery powered real boat?  (Not a trolling motor, so don't troll on that.)

You might not need much range, and the cost differential would be huge.  Would an electric boat with a 40 mile range be generally acceptable?  I know they get 2-3 mpg often as not, so you would need a larger battery pack.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on April 01, 2022, 09:53:14 AM

Inflation will cost you an average of $5200 more this year.  

https://www.businessinsider.com/inflation-cost-americans-5200-extra-food-gas-energy-prices-bloomberg-2022-3 (https://www.businessinsider.com/inflation-cost-americans-5200-extra-food-gas-energy-prices-bloomberg-2022-3)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2022, 10:03:40 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 09:51:57 AM

Has anyone developed a battery powered real boat?  (Not a trolling motor, so don't troll on that.)

You might not need much range, and the cost differential would be huge.  Would an electric boat with a 40 mile range be generally acceptable?  I know they get 2-3 mpg often as not, so you would need a larger battery pack.

Yup.  There is an all-electric Super Air Nautique.  As far as I can tell they're not in full production yet, and I haven't seen any published numbers for hours of operation before recharge, but this article from last May states it's supposed to last "several hours."  Estimated price for now is $300,000, while the gas-powered version is around $150,000.


https://robbreport.com/motors/marine/super-air-nautique-gs22e-electric-tow-boat-1234616016/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 10:08:19 AM

How long would it take to recoup that $150 K with lower operating costs, presuming the boats are equivalent otherwise?

No oil changes.  You'd need a place to plug it in.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2022, 10:27:06 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 10:08:19 AM

How long would it take to recoup that $150 K with lower operating costs, presuming the boats are equivalent otherwise?

No oil changes.  You'd need a place to plug it in.

Definitely depends on how much a person uses the boat.  Average use per season is around 50 hours on a ski boat, but I use my boat at least 100 hours per season.  For me and 100 hours per season, at today's gas prices, in the marina, the breakeven point is about 53 years.  

I'd estimate that between oil changes, fuel filter changes, and all of the other regular preventative maintenance on a gas-powered ski boat, I'd spend about $500/year if I had a boat mechanic do it all.  If I had a boat mechanic at a marina do it all, maybe closer to $1000/year.  So over ten years, that's $10,000 you'd spend on a gas powered boat, that you would not have to spend on an all-electric boat.  That brings the breakeven point down to 50 years.

That's not counting whatever the marina might charge me for electricity to recharge the boat, or any electric-engine specific maintenance, because I have no idea how much that would cost.  But I'd assume that it's minimal compared to a gas-powered engine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 10:59:54 AM

You could also have $150 K invested in something and earning money during the interval.

I think the low volume on EV boats is a large factor.  You could make a decent boat with say 40 miles range with a Tesla battery and motor.  Boat uses tend to be spread out so you could recharge with 120v off the Marina.  It wouldn't work if you wanted to use it daily.

Seems like it could be a market if they didn't go overboard with the battery.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2022, 11:07:27 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 10:59:54 AM

You could also have $150 K invested in something and earning money during the interval.

I think the low volume on EV boats is a large factor.  You could make a decent boat with say 40 miles range with a Tesla battery and motor.  Boat uses tend to be spread out so you could recharge with 120v off the Marina.  It wouldn't work if you wanted to use it daily.

Seems like it could be a market if they didn't go overboard with the battery.

Very common to use the boat two days in a row-- Saturday and Sunday.  In fact I'd say that's the MOST common use case, for ski boats.  So you'd need something that could recharge fully between, say, 9 PM on a Saturday night, and as early as 7 AM on a Sunday morning.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2022, 11:19:42 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on April 01, 2022, 09:53:14 AM

Inflation will cost you an average of $5200 more this year. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/inflation-cost-americans-5200-extra-food-gas-energy-prices-bloomberg-2022-3 (https://www.businessinsider.com/inflation-cost-americans-5200-extra-food-gas-energy-prices-bloomberg-2022-3)

that sucks. feel really bad for all the people who were already struggling to get by as it was before record inflation and price hikes. and this is primarily why the dems are about to get wiped out in the midterms. it's going to be a blood bath.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2022, 11:23:23 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 01, 2022, 11:07:27 AM

Very common to use the boat two days in a row-- Saturday and Sunday.  In fact I'd say that's the MOST common use case, for ski boats.  So you'd need something that could recharge fully between, say, 9 PM on a Saturday night, and as early as 7 AM on a Sunday morning.

obviously, electric prices at the marina would go up as electric boats became numerous

Marinas are pretty good about charging premiums

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2022, 11:23:52 AM

4 Signs That a Housing Market Crash Is Coming

https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/personal-finance/articles/4-signs-that-a-housing-market-crash-is-coming/ (https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/personal-finance/articles/4-signs-that-a-housing-market-crash-is-coming/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on April 01, 2022, 11:27:00 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 31, 2022, 04:25:18 PM

Today has been a "red letter" day in the life of Joe Biden's presidency

1 - He has elected to release another 1M barrels of oil from our Federal Reserve but at the same time has not taken any action to increase oil production. 

2 - He is set to lift Title 42 covid restriction at the southern border in May which will increase our daily illegal crossings by up to 100%
If this happens with no alternative restrictions being implemented it will by catastrophic

3 - This is my favorite - Joe Biden has endorsed sex change surgery and hormone therapy for children

Please Lord do something before this country is completely destroyed
I just hope we can hold on till the mid terms

It’s more than just one bad day for the White House. Biden visiting the troops in Poland was supposed to be the good, needed optic as bulwark against all the talk of rising gas prices and supply shortages.

Instead, the White House (Ron Klain?) has to walk back two (or three?) more Biden gaffes; these “gaffes” turning into a weekly thing. All erupting into a fiercer round of 25th Amendment discussion.

Compound that with certain pillars of the media - Washington Post, NY Times, CNN - running with the Hunter Biden story in unison.

Fringe media figures that I admittedly tune into are theorizing whether “the real powers that be” are laying the ground work for Biden’s eventual removal due to how much of a “liability” he is becoming, having reached an unsalvagable tipping point last weekend.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2022, 11:44:10 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 01, 2022, 11:23:23 AM

obviously, electric prices at the marina would go up as electric boats became numerous

Marinas are pretty good about charging premiums

For sure.

But there are a lot of trailered boats out there.  Those you would charge at your storage facility.  For a lot of folks that's covered self-storage, and for a lot of folks that's their own home/garage.

Still, you'd need to be able to deliver a full charge overnight.  And if the boat's usage capability was only 3-4 hours in a day, that wouldn't suffice for me, or most people I know.  However there are a lot of hardcore skiers/wakeboarders, that only go out for a couple hours per day.

 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 01, 2022, 11:58:45 AM

At some point there will be an interchangeable battery system, and this would benefit boats more than cars most likely... you'd buy a battery as you would one of those blue rhino LP bottles.  

Boats are a great target for crower six stroke engines.  Lightweight and torque monsters- boats are all about the torque... HP is a misdirection or a poor evaluation of expected performance. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2022, 12:10:57 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 01, 2022, 11:58:45 AM

At some point there will be an interchangeable battery system, and this would benefit boats more than cars most likely... you'd buy a battery as you would one of those blue rhino LP bottles. 

Boats are a great target for crower six stroke engines.  Lightweight and torque monsters- boats are all about the torque... HP is a misdirection or a poor evaluation of expected performance.

I don't know that battery storage will ever be physically small enough to interchange like that.  The battery banks required for cars, are massive.  I'd imagine they'd have to be similar for boats, in order to provide any reasonable amount of usage time.

Miniaturization of chemical agents doesn't work the same as miniaturization of semiconductors, for example.  There's no Moore's Law that applies to batteries.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 01, 2022, 12:34:29 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 01, 2022, 09:41:54 AM

Speaking of marinas, I'm looking at one of these right now:



(https://i.imgur.com/vBzBDTS.png)

That all ya got top this fine vessel

(https://i.imgur.com/WYEsBZ0.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 01, 2022, 12:39:55 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 08:48:35 AM

Nearly as I can tell, this may reduce oil prices by 3-5%, temporarily, maybe.  So, instead of paying $4.20, maybe you pay $4.

In the city I got it for 3.58 - 41 cents per gallon cheaper than the burbs even less than COSTCO

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 01, 2022, 12:49:45 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2022, 09:42:21 AM

A very high percentage of that premium is due to insurance requirements. A spill on the water is vastly different than a land spill.

That makes sense. Insurance companies have been taking a bath coming out of the pandemic as they projected somewhat poorly. 

And Florida is a mess of a state for insurance, so I imagine that just doubles down. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2022, 01:00:02 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 01, 2022, 11:23:52 AM

4 Signs That a Housing Market Crash Is Coming

https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/personal-finance/articles/4-signs-that-a-housing-market-crash-is-coming/ (https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/personal-finance/articles/4-signs-that-a-housing-market-crash-is-coming/)

article is kind of suspect imo. In their first point they mention home prices being down 1.8% in Peoria, Illinois and down 5% in Gulfport, Mississippi and that it's not much at the moment. Um. Ok. Home prices are down in areas where people are leaving and new people don't want to move! No kidding! What a shocker!

In their second point they mention Inventory is picking up. It's not picking up. Like at all. People are flat out not listing their homes on the MLS for sale. And in terms of new construction, as soon as builders put stakes in the ground that new inventory is basically gone- often times it's gone before the stakes are even in the damn ground. And with labor shortages and materials shortages- builders of single family homes are not going to be able to probably ever catch up- and because of the crash in 2008- there was an entire decade plus of not enough single family homes being built. And also- with the big national builders- who are the main drivers of new inventory- especially affordable housing in most markets- signing deals with PE assholes to build thousands of homes so that the PE's can turn around and rent them out or package them and sell them or spin that arm of their business off and take it public- that is going to be taking away thousands and thousands of new home inventory from hitting the open market.

Their third point probably doesn't mean much either. 70% in a Fannie Mae survey said it's a bad time to buy a home. Yeah, well no sh*t it's a bad time to buy a house- home prices are surging and out of control due to complete lack of inventory and record demand and inflation has increased prices for materials for everything that goes into building new homes- therefore builders/developers are going to have to increase their prices to sell the house.

Their fourth point on Interest rates are kinda meh too. Interest rates have gone up to to 4%. That's still ridiculously low. Even if they go up to 4.5% or 5% - still pretty damn low. When interest rates on 30 year mortgages start hitting what they were in the 70s and 80s- then we might be in trouble.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2022, 01:02:17 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 01, 2022, 12:49:45 PM

That makes sense. Insurance companies have been taking a bath coming out of the pandemic as they projected somewhat poorly.

And Florida is a mess of a state for insurance, so I imagine that just doubles down.

How so? I've not noticed any changes, except it costs more to insure the house due to hurricanes. Auto is about the same as where I came from, as is marine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2022, 01:03:17 PM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on April 01, 2022, 11:27:00 AM

It’s more than just one bad day for the White House. Biden visiting the troops in Poland was supposed to be the good, needed optic as bulwark against all the talk of rising gas prices and supply shortages.

Instead, the White House (Ron Klain?) has to walk back two (or three?) more Biden gaffes; these “gaffes” turning into a weekly thing. All erupting into a fiercer round of 25th Amendment discussion.

Compound that with certain pillars of the media - Washington Post, NY Times, CNN - running with the Hunter Biden story in unison.

Fringe media figures that I admittedly tune into are theorizing whether “the real powers that be” are laying the ground work for Biden’s eventual removal due to how much of a “liability” he is becoming, having reached an unsalvagable tipping point last weekend.

this all day long. 

WaPo, NY Times, CNN, FB/Twitter pushed propaganda and tried censoring and shutting down the Hunter Biden story. Now all of a sudden they are all over it. It was OBVIOUSLY true and a worthwhile story back then. Why now all of a sudden are they running with it? Things that make you go hmmmm....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2022, 01:03:24 PM

I would not have lasted as long as her with a boss like she had. In fact, I'm not sure I would have lasted until lunch.

Jen Psaki to Exit as White House Spokesperson for MSNBC Gig Next Month (https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/jen-psaki-to-exit-as-white-house-spokesperson-for-msnbc-gig-next-month/ar-AAVLdcf?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b073fff6378741a18749912980fa752c)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2022, 01:04:06 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2022, 01:03:24 PM

I would not have lasted as long as her with a boss like she had. In fact, I'm not sure I would have lasted until lunch.

Jen Psaki to Exit as White House Spokesperson for MSNBC Gig Next Month (https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/jen-psaki-to-exit-as-white-house-spokesperson-for-msnbc-gig-next-month/ar-AAVLdcf?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b073fff6378741a18749912980fa752c)

very predictable. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 01, 2022, 01:15:54 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 01, 2022, 12:49:45 PM

That makes sense. Insurance companies have been taking a bath coming out of the pandemic as they projected somewhat poorly.

And Florida is a mess of a state for insurance, so I imagine that just doubles down.

Living here in Florida, and being in charge of our banks Insurance area- somehow I didn’t know it was a “mess of a state.”.   How so?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2022, 01:17:30 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 01, 2022, 12:49:45 PM

That makes sense. Insurance companies have been taking a bath coming out of the pandemic as they projected somewhat poorly.

And Florida is a mess of a state for insurance, so I imagine that just doubles down.

Yeah and California is a f***king peach, eazy peazy for that, huh? :043:

Florida has no state or city income taxes and it's effective property tax rate is 26th in the nation at .89%. Which means people keep more of the money they make and their property taxes are middle of the pack in comparison to the other 50 states. California is 8 spots lower at 34th at .70%. But the vast differences in state income and sales taxes eats in a hurry what little minuscule .19% is saved in effective property tax.

Even if insurance costs are a little bit higher, you're way better off in Florida as you pay no state or city income taxes. California state income taxes are f**king ridiculous not to mention city sales taxes in places like LA and San Fransisco are around 9-10%. F**king ridiculous. Sales tax in Florida is 6-7% depending on where you're at.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 01:20:53 PM

The news is mostly basic facts.  Typical stuff covered in the national news:

What politicians said - all basic facts.
What the stock market did - basic fact.
Something about weather - basic fact.
Something about some event somewhere - basic fact.
What some foreign leader said or did - basic fact.

How they shape how the news is seen is a separate issue that can be compensated for by reading several news sites.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2022, 01:24:15 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 31, 2022, 10:53:25 AM

The US economy has been expanding rapidly by about any metric one wishes to use.  I have a real fear that is about to reverse.

The unemployment rate is quite low as well.  Anyone can pick this or that metric to show good or bad times often as not.  And of course the GDP growth rates reflect a recovery from the COVID recession, not really much else.

For all of 2021, the nation’s gross domestic product — its total output of goods and services — jumped by 5.7%, the fastest calendar-year growth since a 7.2% surge in 1984 in the aftermath of a brutal recession.

GDP and GDP growth rates and unemployment rate don't even come close to painting an accurate picture of an actual functioning economy. It's silly they are even used. 

Kinda funny....almost as if that "booming" economy has been great for billionaires, millionaires, and corporations making record profits- but has been a disaster for the vast majority of hundred plus million working class people and their families who are being fleeced with ever-increasing prices for healthcare, housing, energy, transportation, food, and everything else it costs...to you know....actually live.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 01:32:04 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 01, 2022, 01:24:15 PM

GDP and GDP growth rates and unemployment rate don't even come close to painting an accurate picture of an actual functioning economy. It's silly they are even used.

Kinda funny....almost as if that "booming" economy has been great for billionaires, millionaires, and corporations making record profits- but has been a disaster for the vast majority of hundred plus million working class people and their families who are being fleeced with ever-increasing prices for healthcare, housing, energy, transportation, food, and everything else it costs...to you know....actually live.

A basic definition of a "booming economy" is where GDP growth is at or near historical highs.  And that may be quite different from what is a "great economy", which one could define differently using other metrics.

But a "booming economy" is pretty singularly associated with real GDP growth.  Period.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2022, 01:39:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 01:32:04 PM

A basic definition of a "booming economy" is where GDP growth is at or near historical highs.  And that may be quite different from what is a "great economy", which one could define differently using other metrics.

But a "booming economy" is pretty singularly associated with real GDP growth.  Period.

A "booming economy" is one where average, working, middle class people are flush with extra disposable income and can save money or invest in other things- instead of having to live paycheck to paycheck, take on massive amounts of debt just to maintain standards of living, and are getting crushed by inflation. 

GDP growth rates where virtually all the gains go to a very small percentage and low unemployment rates where too many of those employed are people are working bullsh&t gig-economy jobs or not being paid a living wage- people being paid enough to live without having to take on massive amounts of debts or get government assistance- is not a "booming" economy. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 01:40:38 PM

Hilarious.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2022, 02:48:50 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 01:40:38 PM

Hilarious.

it's not hilarious. it's actually very sad and very dire. and unfortunately there may be no way out. standards of living have been going nowhere but down for most for the last four decades. the middle class has been crushed, squeezed, and hollowed out for the last four decades. and it just gets worse every year.

Average CEO pay has increased 1,322% since 1978, meanwhile the average workers pay has increased only 12% during that same time frame. CEO's from Fortune 500 companies on average are paid over 350x what an average worker is paid today. Throughout the 1960s and 1970s- that number was around 20-40x. Tim Cook of Apple for example- last year just raked in just under 1,500x what an average Apple employee makes. No one is worth that kind of scratch. 80% of companies that make up the S&P 500 pay their CEO's at least more than 100 times more than they pay their median worker.

The neoliberal policies of the boomers- aka the worst generation ever- have committed generational plunder. They've bastardized the nations economy, have repeatedly cut their own taxes, financed countless and endless wars with deficits, pressed for complete banking/finance deregulation which caused the worst crash since the great depression in 2008, completely mismanaged a pandemic and the response to said pandemic, presided over the destruction of the labor movement and the death of America’s manufacturing core, and left future generations to clean up the messes they created.

what is hilarious-  is that it's the old and crusty who have lead America down this path of denigration- really kicking things off in the 1980s- and the "boomers" aka the worst generation ever- are too naive, full of themselves, stupid, and out of touch to see reality. they inherited a literal empire and lead it down a path of decay, bastardization, and destruction. They inherited a rich, dynamic country and have gradually bankrupted it and slowly morphed it into a rapacious repugnant oligarchy where wealth inequality levels are commiserate with corrupt and poor developing nations. Richest country on the face of the planet, yet largest wealth and income inequality gap in the history of the country and worst income and wealth inequality of any developed nation on planet earth.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 02:55:19 PM

A booming economy may not be in all respects a great economy, as I noted.  It may have issues.  But, if GDP is growing by leaps and bounds, it's a booming economy.

This isn't difficult, it's simple terminology.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 01, 2022, 03:01:12 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 02:55:19 PM

A booming economy may not be in all respects a great economy, as I noted.  It may have issues.  But, if GDP is growing by leaps and bounds, it's a booming economy.

This isn't difficult, it's simple terminology.

are you actually saying we have a booming economy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 03:02:10 PM

Are We Living in the Gilded Age 2.0 ? - HISTORY (https://www.history.com/news/second-gilded-age-income-inequality#:~:text=By 1890%2C the top 1,country—owned just 1.2 percent.)

 By 1890, the top 1 percent of the U.S. population owned 51 percent of all wealth. The top 12 percent owned an astounding 86 percent. The lower 44 percent of U.S. population—almost half the country—owned just 1.2 percent.

The figure today is about 31%, so it was worse back then.  And this has nothing to do with a booming economy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 03:03:34 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 01, 2022, 03:01:12 PM

are you actually saying we have a booming economy

We have had one with near record GDP growth to this point, so yes.  It's a recovery from a very sharp recession.

Booming simply means high GDP growth, nothing else.  It could be a bad economy by other metrics.

I think it's on shaky legs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 01, 2022, 04:57:16 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2022, 01:02:17 PM

How so? I've not noticed any changes, except it costs more to insure the house due to hurricanes. Auto is about the same as where I came from, as is marine.

From a company angle. A lot of the bigger companies limit exposure there. Precisely because it’s more expensive to operate. More places make you go through agents, etc. 

Not the end of the world or anything. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: DunkingDan on April 01, 2022, 04:58:52 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 02:55:19 PM

A booming economy may not be in all respects a great economy, as I noted.  It may have issues.  But, if GDP is growing by leaps and bounds, it's a booming economy.

This isn't difficult, it's simple terminology.

If you think the economy is booming I have a house for sale for you, cheap, Of coarse you will have to move it yourself

(https://i.imgur.com/nCiKnZ6.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 05:04:04 PM

It's more correct to note that is has been booming of late, using the standard metrics.  Whether that continues is in more doubt.

Gross Domestic Product, Fourth Quarter and Year 2021 (Advance Estimate) | U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA) (https://www.bea.gov/news/2022/gross-domestic-product-fourth-quarter-and-year-2021-advance-estimate)

Real GDP increased 5.7 percent in 2021 (from the 2020 annual level to the 2021 annual level), in contrast to a decrease of 3.4 percent in 2020 (table 1). The increase in real GDP in 2021 reflected increases in all major subcomponents, led by PCE, nonresidential fixed investment, exports, residential fixed investment, and private inventory investment.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2022, 09:36:39 PM

Quote from: DunkingDan on April 01, 2022, 04:58:52 PM

If you think the economy is booming I have a house for sale for you, cheap, Of coarse you will have to move it yourself

(https://i.imgur.com/nCiKnZ6.jpg)

why would I move it???
my kinda neighborhood 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2022, 10:24:10 PM

West Midtown Atlanta's favorite Asian fusion restaurant and bar.

Pijiu Belly
678 10th Street NW Atlanta

As featured on Food Network's Diners, Drive-In's and Dives Season 29 Episode "Belly, Beef and Bratwurst"!

Aired April 12th 2019


http://pijiubelly.com/ (http://pijiubelly.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on April 02, 2022, 09:03:05 AM

The genius contestants were all caught looking on a Multi-Sport Athlete answer which involved Bo Jsckson.   It was very sad.  I felt old. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 02, 2022, 09:11:19 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 01, 2022, 10:24:10 PM

West Midtown Atlanta's favorite Asian fusion restaurant and bar.

Pijiu Belly
678 10th Street NW Atlanta

I will try it, though it's in a different zip code.  Ha.  The term "west midtown" is interesting, it used to be a light industrial sector that was pretty, well, unattractive and barren, but the relatively low property costs have attractive major development and a ton of new restaurants.  It's a drive for us, not far, but in the car.

It seems to be one of the really hip places to live now, but transportation is abysmal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 02, 2022, 09:13:27 AM

I know you have plenty of Asian choices within walking distance, but it was on Triple "D" last night so I posted it

Guy really seemed to like this guy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 02, 2022, 09:20:01 AM

677 10th St NW - Google Maps (https://www.google.com/maps/place/678+10th+St+NW,+Atlanta,+GA+30318/@33.7815502,-84.4094475,3a,75y,242.23h,100.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDeB1PKUw-rqQ11aCn7NOHg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0x88f5049329150649:0x829df5a4c924da4e!8m2!3d33.781344!4d-84.4096751)

Street view, a lot of older buildings mixed in with new apartment complexes.  The place looks like a dive for sure, cool.

We had lunch yesterday at the new Persian place, it is consistently very good, and crowded even at lunch.

What’s different about Rumi’s Kitchen at Colony Square? - Atlanta Magazine (https://www.atlantamagazine.com/dining-news/whats-different-about-rumis-kitchen-at-colony-square/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on April 02, 2022, 01:02:50 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 01, 2022, 01:20:53 PM

The news is mostly basic facts.

Lol, what news have you watched the last 6 or 7 years? Every last cable news hour opens with a monologue steeped in sharp, unforgiving editorial.

Unless the only news you’ve been watching is the Weather Channel.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 02, 2022, 01:16:19 PM

Its not only what they say but many times its what they dont say

sometimes they are as quiet as a little church mouse concerning current events that dont fit their agenda

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 02, 2022, 02:33:12 PM

Under Florida Law Bengay Forced To Rebrand As Benstraight | The Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/under-florida-law-bengay-forced-to-rebrand-as-benstraight)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 02, 2022, 03:00:19 PM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on April 02, 2022, 01:02:50 PM

Lol, what news have you watched the last 6 or 7 years? Every last cable news hour opens with a monologue steeped in sharp, unforgiving editorial.

Unless the only news you’ve been watching is the Weather Channel.

I read various news web sites.  Most of it is simple factual information, though it can be presented in ways that are misleading of course (or ignored entirely).  But it's what someone said, what someone did, the stock market report, etc.  It's mostly basic facts, just often not the real story.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 02, 2022, 03:32:13 PM

My wife has the local news on fairly often, at times I half watch or listen.  It's repetitive of course, highly.  There was a bad accident, a fire, some heinous crime, some politician said something or did something, the weather, sports, and then some feel good story.  I think it's nearly all factual.  It likely isn't the entire fact set, and some stories are left out.  In a smaller city, the lead news item can be pretty prosaic, but if it bleeds it leads is still true, it's at least going to be sensational.

I recall watching part of the news on CNN while on a trip, I was getting ready and turned the TV on, it all seemed basically factual, that isn't the real issue.  I can tell a story that is 100% fact based and create the impression entirely different from reality.  I just leave things out.

"White man shoots young black man three times killing him!".  That could be factual, and perhaps they leave out other factors material to the story.  

The best lies rely on parts of the truth.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 02, 2022, 03:34:54 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/grAJHBy.png)

Spring is springing here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 02, 2022, 03:35:45 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/Y31GApN.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 02, 2022, 04:04:37 PM

I enjoy discussion about WW Two tanks often as not, it can be quite entertaining as partisans get into it.  This chart below is something I found quite illustrative:

(https://i.imgur.com/01gBBNR.png)

The size of the cartridge has a lot to do with its penetration ability (there are other factors).   Folks can get really wound up over which tank gun was "the best".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2022, 08:34:46 AM

KC 135 Q refueling the SR 71. The SR 71 held 80,000 pounds of fuel. It needed to be refilled every 2500 miles. The “Q“tankers went everywhere that the SR 71 went. The tankers also risk their life by being near and around unfriendly countries that would like to shoot them down. Habu’s are forever thankful for their support. A few months ago when I was at a Museum  I was talking to a young girl about the SR 71. She said “Why is it so big? I said because of all the fuel tanks!

(https://i.imgur.com/NmxyLgP.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2022, 08:54:38 AM

Here is a simple example of how "the news" can be factual, and misleading, taking from the NC football game:

Alabama completed 35 passes, Georgia only 17, leading an an 18-13 lead in the final quarter.

All true, rather misleading.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 03, 2022, 10:11:20 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 03, 2022, 08:54:38 AM

Here is a simple example of how "the news" can be factual, and misleading, taking from the NC football game:

Alabama completed 35 passes, Georgia only 17, leading an an 18-13 lead in the final quarter.

All true, rather misleading.

as I previously said often its not what they say but what they dont say

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2022, 10:35:23 AM

Yup, the best way to mislead something is with partial truths.  If you come out with specific nontruths, it's fairly easily "fact checked" these days.

A lot of it is simply what someone said.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2022, 07:30:37 PM

Quantum mechanics history - MacTutor History of Mathematics (st-andrews.ac.uk) (https://mathshistory.st-andrews.ac.uk/HistTopics/The_Quantum_age_begins/)

Short history.  I was rereading a biography of Einstein and this was vaguely on my mind, certainly the strangest think I ever had to learn about.  It came about as folks were looking at the emissions of atoms when bombarded with light of differing frequencies, spectroscopy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2022, 07:38:44 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/3FzACfl.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 03, 2022, 07:44:26 PM

CD you got to get a hobby man

youve got too much time on your hands

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2022, 07:48:29 PM

I have a number of hobbies actually, I'm amidst writing another book right now.  I drift over here when the muse departs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 03, 2022, 08:08:18 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 03, 2022, 07:48:29 PM

I have a number of hobbies actually, I'm amidst writing another book right now.  I drift over here when the muse departs.

so is the south rising again or have you moved on to other plots

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2022, 08:14:22 PM

I've moved on to fantasy, now.  I also wrote one nonfiction book.

I did enjoy thinking about what might have happened had the South won the war.  

I'm pretty down to earth about my writing skills, I can't say they are that good of course, but I enjoy the process.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 03, 2022, 09:59:53 PM

the tie was not the same

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on April 04, 2022, 12:44:29 AM

I think even if the south had won slavery would have ended anyway in 12-25 years. I imagine the N and S states would have been in a perpetual Cold War for 20-30 years. Strange thing to think about. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 04, 2022, 09:11:41 AM

Yeah, my "hero" in the books was antislavery, as was Stonewall Jackson (who lived in the books).  The North split into three different countries as well, it was a mess.

The Mountain regions around WV congealed into "Franklin", a separate entity, and the midwest split off as well.  The Confederacy just got mired in bickering and all sorts of problems, including debt of course and inflation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 04, 2022, 01:10:01 PM

Where was ABC in October 2020?

Secret Service paying over $30K per month for Malibu mansion to protect Hunter Biden - ABC News (https://abcnews.go.com/US/secret-service-paying-30k-month-malibu-mansion-protect/story?id=83821498)

Oh, I know. They were with all of their buddies:

(https://i.imgur.com/v26vIJ1.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 04, 2022, 02:47:20 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 04, 2022, 01:10:01 PM

Where was ABC in October 2020?

Secret Service paying over $30K per month for Malibu mansion to protect Hunter Biden - ABC News (https://abcnews.go.com/US/secret-service-paying-30k-month-malibu-mansion-protect/story?id=83821498)

Oh, I know. They were with all of their buddies:

(https://i.imgur.com/v26vIJ1.png)

You’re saying they should’ve reported this in October of 2020?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 04, 2022, 03:37:35 PM

A laptop comes to mind, and is mentioned in this ABC story, but they participated in the cover-up. We all know this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 04, 2022, 03:38:25 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/HTEfeY6.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 04, 2022, 03:39:13 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/0kLxFxZ.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 04, 2022, 03:39:45 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/O5aNEFg.jpg)

The concrete path is a recently completed portion of the Belt Line in a lesser trafficked area.  Someday they claim to want to run light rail down it, I'm against that option.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 04, 2022, 03:41:24 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/2Cgmgm8.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 04, 2022, 03:48:21 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/VsdrcG2.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 04, 2022, 03:48:25 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/gRrCMlb.png)

This image looks like an impossibility to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 04, 2022, 03:48:57 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/0cHc8Ld.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 04, 2022, 03:49:47 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/V06ds6L.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 04, 2022, 05:34:39 PM

How y'all like this decorating?  There is a story here, and this unit is for sale now.

(https://i.imgur.com/gpRs1U1.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 04, 2022, 06:31:56 PM

Władziu Valentino Liberace?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 10:55:04 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 04, 2022, 05:34:39 PM

How y'all like this decorating?  There is a story here, and this unit is for sale now.

(https://i.imgur.com/gpRs1U1.jpg)

I don't like that style at all. Very dated. But I can tell you right now that looks like a Sherle Wagner sink and faucet- which means it's expensive as hell.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 11:01:10 AM

Elon Musk buys 9.2% of all Twitter shares. He's now the single largest shareholder. Next largest is Morgan Stanley- a financial institution. Lol. Musk owns roughly 4.6x the amount of stock as Twitter founder- Jack Dorsey- who owns roughly 2%. Twitter shares are up 20+% still from the news breaking.

It was just announced that Musk is joining the Twitter board. Looks like he's going to go all Carl Ichan activist investor and shake shit up at that shithole and actually fix Twitter. 

He's so rich, I was hoping he'd just buy the entire company, take it private, and then delete Twitter. That would be the ultimate F**K YOU money move.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 11:01:42 AM

I could live with it

I worry about function

don't much care how it looks if it works well

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 11:03:48 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/41vKDO2.png)

This is the walk in closet, same unit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 11:05:17 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/Y5M3cpz.png)

My wife and I toured it, I figured it would need $150 K remodeling.  The nice thing it does have is a view of Buckhead to the north.

(https://i.imgur.com/Uh1Rgxy.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 11:10:15 AM

man that thing is hideous. looks like it was done up in the 80s. not too familiar with prices in Atlanta, but depending on sq footage, kitchen and # of bathrooms- you could easily be looking at $150k. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 11:10:33 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 02, 2022, 02:33:12 PM

Under Florida Law Bengay Forced To Rebrand As Benstraight | The Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/under-florida-law-bengay-forced-to-rebrand-as-benstraight)

now that's kinda funny.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 11:11:57 AM

The condo was extensively remodeled somewhere around 1990, the building was built in 1988, but the daughter of Ted Turner.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 11:15:28 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 11:11:57 AM

The condo was extensively remodeled somewhere around 1990, the building was built in 1988, but the daughter of Ted Turner.

that would explain what looks like a Sherle Wagner faucet and sink lol. that stuff is super expensive. basically only rich people buy it. and it's ugly as sin too if you ask me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 11:29:08 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 11:03:48 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/41vKDO2.png)

This is the walk in closet, same unit.

the jungle room!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 11:29:34 AM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/277728712_5120523371324240_7988351439065478208_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=K_FdA2ZNhjUAX-gmpn7&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT8PhdgojsHfhkpcG3rQuMaCjq8QjoKBSHo8yZltij_Lwg&oe=62505458)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 11:31:23 AM

Most small planes are not supposed to be landed in a 15+ knot crosswind, so that makes sense.  I think I did it a few times though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 11:34:44 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 11:01:10 AM

Elon Musk buys 9.2% of all Twitter shares. He's now the single largest shareholder. Next largest is Morgan Stanley- a financial institution. Lol. Musk owns roughly 4.6x the amount of stock as Twitter founder- Jack Dorsey- who owns roughly 2%. Twitter shares are up 20+% still from the news breaking.

It was just announced that Musk is joining the Twitter board. Looks like he's going to go all Carl Ichan activist investor and shake shit up at that shithole and actually fix Twitter.

He's so rich, I was hoping he'd just buy the entire company, take it private, and then delete Twitter. That would be the ultimate F**K YOU money move.

so how long before they unban Trump et all

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 12:12:06 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 11:34:44 AM

so how long before they unban Trump et all

who cares?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 12:16:55 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 12:12:06 PM

who cares?

Some do apparently, I think Trump was one of the most followed tweeter types back in the day.  I see tweets when someone links to them.  I would not have expected the platform to be nearly this widely used.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 12:41:20 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 12:12:06 PM

who cares?

Just wondering if twitter censorship will be truly gone

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 12:46:26 PM

Trump would have won the election if he would have been censored better

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 01:21:43 PM

Fox News' viewers can change their attitudes with exposure to CNN (msnbc.com) (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/fox-news-viewers-can-change-their-attitudes-exposure-cnn-n1294014)

I am curious as to why this would be a surprise at all, or worth noting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 05, 2022, 01:37:56 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 12:46:26 PM

Trump would have won the election if he would have been censored better

He had a lot more working against him than mean tweets.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 01:49:22 PM

himself mostly

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 05, 2022, 02:13:03 PM

He wasn't gonna get a fair shake from the MSM from the very beginning. Same goes for the deep state and many prominent members of his own party.

He was undermined and torpedoed for 5 years, and unlike other POTUS's, he lost wealth in the process. 

I'm kinda surprised (OK, I'm really not - ego too big) he still wanted the job.

All that said, I truly hope he does not run again in 2024. Let DeSantis or Tim Scott have it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 02:51:11 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 01:21:43 PM

Fox News' viewers can change their attitudes with exposure to CNN (msnbc.com) (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/fox-news-viewers-can-change-their-attitudes-exposure-cnn-n1294014)

I am curious as to why this would be a surprise at all, or worth noting.

Because when faced with facts and logic from other individuals, they remain unswayed.

That's not a joke, it's the answer to your question.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 02:52:32 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 05, 2022, 02:13:03 PM

All that said, I truly hope he does not run again in 2024. Let DeSantis or Tim Scott have it.

How would they be any different?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 02:53:38 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 02:51:11 PM

Because when faced with facts and logic from other individuals, they remain unswayed.

That's not a joke, it's the answer to your question.

I think the bottom line of this "study" is the opposite, if one accepts that CNN gets closer to "facts and logic".

I think the conclusion is obvious, folks form their opinions based on what they get fed, and then cling to them by only dining on what they like to eat.  I would guess one could take an MSNBC devotee and feed them Fox News for a month or so and watch their opinions "evolve".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 02:54:25 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 02:52:32 PM

How would they be any different?

Tim Scott at least is not orange.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 05, 2022, 02:55:27 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 05, 2022, 02:13:03 PM

He wasn't gonna get a fair shake from the MSM from the very beginning. Same goes for the deep state and many prominent members of his own party.

He was undermined and torpedoed for 5 years, and unlike other POTUS's, he lost wealth in the process.

I'm kinda surprised (OK, I'm really not - ego too big) he still wanted the job.

All that said, I truly hope he does not run again in 2024. Let DeSantis or Tim Scott have it.

Undermined and torpedoed? That’s an understatement 😂.  Hell- the left wing nuts had a million vagina March- where Madonna said let’s burn down the WH on Inauguration Day and there was Molotov Cocktails and window smashing in numerous cities.  That group that doesn’t really exist, andBeefa - tore the place up.

Never mind the Social Media censorship, the completely made up RUssia Russia Russia hoax which is now proven to be Dem made up and paid for, the Ukraine fake news which is now proven to be Biden family corruption, and the now proven what we all already knew crap about the Hunter Biden laptop -  how about the over 1000 local election laws that were changed within 30 days of the election? Mostly relating to ID and ballot validation.  Changed mostly by judiciary versus legislative- which is actually what is required.

Now having said that, Trump did have diarrhea of the mouth as I have said here many times before and definitely was his own worst enemy. But it’s kind of funny because Biden has diarrhea of the mouth too, just for different reasons.

ask for DeSantis, the attacks have already begun because they fear him. Why only yesterday he was labeled a Nazi pig and a dick face by the talking heads in the media. Literally. Because he has the audacity to sign legislation that basically says that other than parents, strangers and teachers shouldn’t be talking to kindergartners about their genitals.  In fact in most non-corrupt places in the United States if you talk to a strangers kindergarten kid about the genitals you will be arrested for pedophile.  As it should be.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 05, 2022, 02:57:41 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 02:51:11 PM

Because when faced with facts and logic from other individuals, they remain unswayed.

That's not a joke, it's the answer to your question.

Except if you watch CNN you will never see any facts and certainly not any logic. But of course you would know that being their biggest fan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 03:05:02 PM

As I've said before, most of what is on CNN (at least their web site) is factual.  It may be incomplete at times, but most if factual.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 03:06:16 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 05, 2022, 02:13:03 PM

He wasn't gonna get a fair shake from the MSM from the very beginning. Same goes for the deep state and many prominent members of his own party.

He was undermined and torpedoed for 5 years, and unlike other POTUS's, he lost wealth in the process.

I'm kinda surprised (OK, I'm really not - ego too big) he still wanted the job.

All that said, I truly hope he does not run again in 2024. Let DeSantis or Tim Scott have it.

It will be up to the primary voters but I wouldnt bet against Trump being the man

Right now the dems have absolutely no one on the horizon that could give the republicans a run for the money and this is mostly due to how far left they have gone

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 05, 2022, 03:09:30 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 03:05:02 PM

As I've said before, most of what is on CNN (at least their web site) is factual.  It may be incomplete at times, but most if factual.

Yeah- like when they said the Hunter Biden
laptop was “Russian Disinformation “. 😂👍

Or when they reported that “ a car” crashed into a Christmas parade in Wisconsin. ( must have been a driverless car🤥)

or when they called Brett Kavanaugh a serial rapist. 🤔

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 03:13:12 PM

MOST of what they report is factual.  MOST of what they report is what others have said, like theh "Russian disinformation" story.  They reported that some former intelligence types said it had all the hallmarks of Russian disinformation.

That is entirely true.  Those folks did say that.  Their report of the stock market averages are factual, the basketball score is factual, that somebody said something is factual.

Right now their headline is what Zelensky said, and that is factual.

I'm not saying I like CNN at all, I don't, but I am very wary of any news outlet.  They can present facts in such a way as to distort the actual meaning.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 05, 2022, 03:14:37 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 02:52:32 PM

How would they be any different?

I really hope this is not a serious question.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 03:18:30 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 05, 2022, 03:14:37 PM

I really hope this is not a serious question.

Id OAM who he would like to see run for president but it would be a waste of time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 03:18:49 PM

Well, it's pretty classic to paint everyone on the other side with the same brush, e.g., every Democrat is a socialist etc.

I try and avoid those characterizations as not useful.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 03:21:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 03:18:49 PM

Well, it's pretty classic to paint everyone on the other side with the same brush, e.g., every Democrat is a socialist etc.

I try and avoid those characterizations as not useful.

you do realize the mid terms are going to be a bloodbath for the dems dont you CD

why do you suppose that is

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 05, 2022, 03:29:28 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 03:18:49 PM

Well, it's pretty classic to paint everyone on the other side with the same brush, e.g., every Democrat is a socialist etc.

I try and avoid those characterizations as not useful.

What you should avoid is painting anyone that disagrees with you as being “from the other side”

i’ve said 1 million times I couldn’t stand Trump and I’ll tell you now I can’t stand Biden.

But if you can’t see the incredible liberal bias in social media and mainstream media, which they themselves do not even deny, then I think you’re not paying close enough attention.

in fact I read a story the other day that new ownership at CNN is seriously considering going back to actually being a main stream independent news station versus their current extreme left position they take on every opinion and what they do and don’t report.  Frankly I’d like to see that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 03:31:36 PM

The midterms are generally bad for the party in control.  Republicans lost 41 seats in the House in 2018, and I expect about the same shift this time.

"We" elect someone and then find they didn't deliver on their promises, so we try someone else, and back again, usually a President is reelected and then the other party gets the spot.  I also think our economy is going to slide, perhaps into a technical recession, by end of year.  It might be a fairly mild recession, but enough to tip us into stagflation.  Inflation (and the economy) is the key issue right now.

I then expect Republicans to spend a lot of effort on hearings and "investigations" that lead pretty much nowhere.  That is the best hope for Democrats in 2024.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 03:33:00 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 05, 2022, 03:29:28 PM

What you should avoid is painting anyone that disagrees with you as being “from the other side”

All I said was something pretty clear, folks one one side paint folks on the other side with a broad brush.

There are plenty of folks somewhere in the middle who are less sided, they aren't in that conversation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 03:40:09 PM

I saw a meme that said "Bring back Fullbacks" just now, and was wondering why they are mostly phased out.  I know it is much more of a passing league now (CFB), but good FBs could catch passes, they were almost akin to a TE.  Does anybody use the FB much today other than maybe Army?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 03:45:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 03:31:36 PM

The midterms are generally bad for the party in control.  Republicans lost 41 seats in the House in 2018, and I expect about the same shift this time.

"We" elect someone and then find they didn't deliver on their promises, so we try someone else, and back again, usually a President is reelected and then the other party gets the spot.  I also think our economy is going to slide, perhaps into a technical recession, by end of year.  It might be a fairly mild recession, but enough to tip us into stagflation.  Inflation (and the economy) is the key issue right now.

I then expect Republicans to spend a lot of effort on hearings and "investigations" that lead pretty much nowhere.  That is the best hope for Democrats in 2024.

If the dems dont change their far left leaning attitudes they will never again control any of the branches of government

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 03:50:24 PM

Sometimes, a President or party can just stumble into good times, or bad, through no merit or fault of their own.  A policy can take a few years to have any impact and by then whoever started it is long gone and the FNG is saddled with it, or benefits by it.

I'd guess we'll put Republicans in Congress and collectively find we don't like them much either and the race for 2024 will be competitive.  Maybe the Republicans sweep, and then in time "we" decide we like Democrats better.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 05, 2022, 03:50:38 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 03:40:09 PM

I saw a meme that said "Bring back Fullbacks" just now, and was wondering why they are mostly phased out.  I know it is much more of a passing league now (CFB), but good FBs could catch passes, they were almost akin to a TE.  Does anybody use the FB much today other than maybe Army?

Howdy.

UW has two FB in the NFL right now, and will probably have a third very soon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 05, 2022, 03:51:03 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 03:45:58 PM

If the dems dont change their far left leaning attitudes they will never again control any of the branches of government

They will still control the 4th branch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 03:53:30 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 05, 2022, 03:51:03 PM

They will still control the 4th branch.

not yet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 03:59:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 03:50:24 PM

Sometimes, a President or party can just stumble into good times, or bad, through no merit or fault of their own.  A policy can take a few years to have any impact and by then whoever started it is long gone and the FNG is saddled with it, or benefits by it.

I'd guess we'll put Republicans in Congress and collectively find we don't like them much either and the race for 2024 will be competitive.  Maybe the Republicans sweep, and then in time "we" decide we like Democrats better.

you are completely misreading the American people

For the dems to have a chance to come back they will have to stop doing things like trying to take away parents'
rights

They will have to secure our borders and get inflation under control

but thats ok I hope they dont change at all cause then they will be toast

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 04:13:20 PM

I am basing my guesses on what has happened in the past.  I'm sure when Bush 1 took office, it looked dark for Democrats.  

Since Truman, we had Ike for 8, then JFK/LBJ for 8, then Nixon/Ford for 8, then Carter for 4, breaking the pattern, then Reagan/Bush for 12, breaking the pattern, then Clinton for 8, then Bush for 8, then Obama for 8.  We oscillate back and forth, and at times either party may seem out of touch and about to die.

That's my read on the American people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 04:22:18 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 04:13:20 PM

I am basing my guesses on what has happened in the past.  I'm sure when Bush 1 took office, it looked dark for Democrats. 

Since Truman, we had Ike for 8, then JFK/LBJ for 8, then Nixon/Ford for 8, then Carter for 4, breaking the pattern, then Reagan/Bush for 12, breaking the pattern, then Clinton for 8, then Bush for 8, then Obama for 8.  We oscillate back and forth, and at times either party may seem out of touch and about to die.

That's my read on the American people.

the dems have never been as left as they are right now

thats the difference

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 04:22:46 PM

They call them "H" backs these days, usually just a TE lined up in the backfield for an extra blocker on a power run play

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 04:25:04 PM

the southern boarder has never been secure

the promise of building a wall may have helped Trump get elected, but it didn't git done and didn't git him re-elected

now, rampant inflation will cause votes to swing

it's the economy stupid

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 04:36:38 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 04:25:04 PM

the southern boarder has never been secure

the promise of building a wall may have helped Trump get elected, but it didn't git done and didn't git him re-elected

now, rampant inflation will cause votes to swing

it's the economy stupid

the border was secure at the time of the election and 500 miles of the wall had been built and much more scheduled

we had reached an agreement with Mexico to help secure the border and Biden very quickly did away with that

its the dems allowing the economy to go south this wasnt just bad luck

but everyone is free to vote however they want so if you want more of the same as weve had the last year cast a dem vote thats your right

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 04:48:42 PM

I think it was 458 miles of new wall got built under Trump, hopefully in the right places.  And folks were crossing illegally when Trump was President obviously.  I find getting solid information on what's happening to be very difficult.  I see figures on how many BP has captured, OK, but that isn't how many entered, and I'm not sure what happens to those detained.

In past years, some Mexicans would cross for seasonal work and then go home.  I don't know how prominent this is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 04:56:15 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 04:48:42 PM

I think it was 458 miles of new wall got built under Trump, hopefully in the right places.  And folks were crossing illegally when Trump was President obviously.  I find getting solid information on what's happening to be very difficult.  I see figures on how many BP has captured, OK, but that isn't how many entered, and I'm not sure what happens to those detained.

In past years, some Mexicans would cross for seasonal work and then go home.  I don't know how prominent this is.

well now in the dead of night Biden's folks are flying them all over the country coming to a town near you

thats step one and step two will giving them the ability to vote

incidentally what Biden is doing is unconstitutional and he should be impeached over it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 05, 2022, 04:56:36 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 04:48:42 PM

I think it was 458 miles of new wall got built under Trump, hopefully in the right places.  And folks were crossing illegally when Trump was President obviously.  I find getting solid information on what's happening to be very difficult.  I see figures on how many BP has captured, OK, but that isn't how many entered, and I'm not sure what happens to those detained.

In past years, some Mexicans would cross for seasonal work and then go home.  I don't know how prominent this is.

This is where you need to do your homework.  If you have not followed what’s going on at our southern border- and seen the data around how many illegals are getting in, how many are actually assisted by the Biden admin, how many are actually being shipped via government sponsored transportation to other states, and how many more are entering now than the previous admin- you need new sources. 

now there will be those who come on and say that I must have a phobia of illegal immigrants, which of course is their only argument and it’s not an argument at all. But sending that to the side the numbers are not disputable and should be table stakes, in other words foundational, for this conversation.  There is no longer a debate about how open the borders are now versus the prior administration.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 04:58:59 PM

I find getting solid information on the border is difficult.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 05:05:05 PM

here is info on out border problem

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/11/09/whats-happening-at-the-u-s-mexico-border-in-7-charts/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 05:10:52 PM

Yes, I had seen that.  It still leaves many questions unanswered.

What percentage of asylum seekers are granted asylum?  What percentage are released into the US for a later court date?  What percentage of them appear for their court date?  How many folks cross who are not detected by BP?  What happens to those under the "apprehension" columns versus expulsion?  What has been the specific impact of Biden policy changes on the various numbers?

To me, it's very confusing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 05:13:38 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 05:10:52 PM

Yes, I had seen that.  It still leaves many questions unanswered.

What percentage of asylum seekers are granted asylum?  What percentage are released into the US for a later court date?  What percentage of them appear for their court date?  How many folks cross who are not detected by BP?  What happens to those under the "apprehension" columns versus expulsion?  What has been the specific impact of Biden policy changes on the various numbers?

To me, it's very confusing.

the dirty little secret is the Gov is not telling you this info on purpose

they are trying to do this as quietly and under wraps as possible

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 05:26:41 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/crQboy4.png)

I do not understand what is meant by apprehension.  Expulsion would seem to require apprehension as a first step.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 05:29:59 PM

Ethanol may bring down gas prices: Sen. Chuck Grassley | Fox Business (https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/oil-ethanol-gas-prices-chuck-grassley)

And he's from Iowa.  I think everything he's claiming is deceptive, or a flat out lie.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 05:40:51 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 05:26:41 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/crQboy4.png)

I do not understand what is meant by apprehension.  Expulsion would seem to require apprehension as a first step.

why would you post something you dont understand

looks to me that expulsion has decreased and apprehension has increased

which to me means more illegals are being detained and released into this country

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 05:55:15 PM

How can someone be expelled without being apprehended?  What happens to folks apprehended?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 06:02:36 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 05:55:15 PM

How can someone be expelled without being apprehended?  What happens to folks apprehended? 

I think all of them were apprehended 100% and the expelled is that portion of the 100% that were sent back

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 06:04:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 05:29:59 PM

Ethanol may bring down gas prices: Sen. Chuck Grassley | Fox Business (https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/oil-ethanol-gas-prices-chuck-grassley)

And he's from Iowa.  I think everything he's claiming is deceptive, or a flat out lie.

Grassley has been in politics a LONG time

he's experienced at deception

but, he knows his voting base, high percentage of corn farmers and others that rely on farm ag economy
E85 price shouldn't raise in the same percentage as straight gasoline, until corn prices rise.
we shall see, everyone uses a situation to their advantage to make a profit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 06:06:47 PM

I would guess there are many more illegals coming across the border since Biden was elected and changed the message than a few months ago when Trump was sending a tougher message

I don't like the idear of that, but I didn't like the idea that plenty were still coming across when Trump was standing behind the podium talking tough

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 05, 2022, 06:11:32 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 06:06:47 PM

I would guess there are many more illegals coming across the border since Biden was elected and changed the message than a few months ago when Trump was sending a tougher message

I don't like the idear of that, but I didn't like the idea that plenty were still coming across when Trump was standing behind the podium talking tough

So one guy was improving the situation and the other guy is making the situation much worse and you understand that but yet you’re equally disappointing with both?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 06:12:14 PM

Yes, we hear about more illegals coming across, my comment is simply that for me trying to get some nonpartisan accurate picture of the real story has been difficult to impossible.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 06:25:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 06:12:14 PM

Yes, we hear about more illegals coming across, my comment is simply that for me trying to get some nonpartisan accurate picture of the real story has been difficult to impossible.

yes and as Ive pointed out thats on purpose

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 05, 2022, 06:46:40 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 12:41:20 PM

Just wondering if twitter censorship will be truly gone

Nah, they’ll be better about deleting mean stuff about Elon. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 07:05:08 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 05, 2022, 06:46:40 PM

Nah, they’ll be better about deleting mean stuff about Elon.

Elon seems pretty wound up about censorship so it will be interesting

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 05, 2022, 07:19:57 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 07:05:08 PM

Elon seems pretty wound up about censorship so it will be interesting

He’s taken steps to punish people who say things that are mean to him in several cases.

It’s an odd bit about what we are as a society. People who don’t like censorship often want to censor. People who speak highly of rights in the constitution often want to dramatically curtail  rights enshrined in the constitution. Those who hate cancel culture often cancel. Those who believe in government are often skeptical of parts of it, while those who perport to strongly distain government often put extreme faith in it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 07:39:25 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 02:51:11 PM

Because when faced with facts and logic from other individuals, they remain unswayed.

That's not a joke, it's the answer to your question.

Lol. Newsflash: CNN/MSNBC contain about as much fact and logic as a fart from my ass.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 07:42:59 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 05, 2022, 02:13:03 PM

He wasn't gonna get a fair shake from the MSM from the very beginning. Same goes for the deep state and many prominent members of his own party.

He was undermined and torpedoed for 5 years, and unlike other POTUS's, he lost wealth in the process.

I'm kinda surprised (OK, I'm really not - ego too big) he still wanted the job.

All that said, I truly hope he does not run again in 2024. Let DeSantis or Tim Scott have it.

Trump is the best chance the Republicans have in 2024, according to all the early polling right now. He just has to keep his mouth shut. COVID and some of the ridiculous sh*t that came out of his mouth cost himself the last election if you ask me. The entire press lining up to squash/suppress and discredit the obvious true story of Hunter Biden's laptop from hell certainly may have cost him as well. 

As far as the deep state thing goes- that sh*t was WILD. You basically saw the CIA work in tandem with the Democratic party to take down an elected republican President. That interview with Chuck Schumer where he warned Trump before Trump ever took office to leave the intelligence services alone and that they have "six ways from Sunday to get back at you" gives me goosebumps every time I watch it. CRAZY shit. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 07:45:06 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 05, 2022, 07:19:57 PM

He’s taken steps to punish people who say things that are mean to him in several cases.

examples, please? there's a massive difference between censorship and suing someone for defamation or libel. and also a massive difference between firing someone or disciplining someone who works for you who is out of pocket with their mouth or going after someone who opens their mouth after they've signed an NDA. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 07:48:59 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 04:22:18 PM

the dems have never been as left as they are right now

thats the difference

dems are left in rhetoric, not action.

the ones that are truly "left"- like AOC- don't really have any power and the little power they could have- they don't leverage. Most of them don't stand for anything- AOC is all talk, no action. talked a big game to get elected, and now all she seems to do is just to draw attention to herself- and is obsessed with being a celebrity. seems like that's just par for the course with most politicians in DC.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 07:51:20 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 07:39:25 PM

Lol. Newsflash: CNN/MSNBC contain about as much fact and logic as a fart from my ass.

That has nothing to do with the conversation.  He asked a genuine question and I provided a genuine reason.  It wasn't political, tbh.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 07:53:09 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 02:52:32 PM

How would they be any different?

DeSantis doesn't have diarrhea of the mouth, is a war veteran, has extensive experience being a politician before going into the job, doesn't attack people on twitter, is as far as we can tell- in a committed relationship with one woman (aka not a womanizing whore like Donald Trump) and well just seems like a better human being in general. I think they'd be vastly different.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 07:53:23 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 05, 2022, 06:11:32 PM

So one guy was improving the situation and the other guy is making the situation much worse and you understand that but yet you’re equally disappointing with both?

How's that wall coming?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 07:54:10 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 07:53:09 PM

DeSantis doesn't have diarrhea of the mouth, is a war veteran, has extensive experience being a politician before going into the job, doesn't attack people on twitter, is as far as we can tell- in a committed relationship with one woman (aka not a womanizing whore like Donald Trump) and well just seems like a better human being in general. I think they'd be vastly different.

I disagree with your first and last 2 opinions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 07:54:50 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 03:45:58 PM

If the dems dont change their far left leaning attitudes they will never again control any of the branches of government

Only far right leaning attitudes here!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 07:55:32 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 07:54:10 PM

I disagree with your first and last 2 opinions.

I'm only a Floridian, but what would I know. 

I don't see DeSantis as having diarrhea of the mouth. He's nothing like Trump in that regard. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 07:56:51 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 07:51:20 PM

That has nothing to do with the conversation.  He asked a genuine question and I provided a genuine reason.  It wasn't political, tbh. 

My answer wasn't political either. Cincy hit the nail on the head...

I think the bottom line of this "study" is the opposite, if one accepts that CNN gets closer to "facts and logic".

I think the conclusion is obvious, folks form their opinions based on what they get fed, and then cling to them by only dining on what they like to eat.  I would guess one could take an MSNBC devotee and feed them Fox News for a month or so and watch their opinions "evolve".

Study was just showing how easily people can get indoctrinated/propagandized. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 07:58:49 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 05, 2022, 06:11:32 PM

So one guy was improving the situation and the other guy is making the situation much worse and you understand that but yet you’re equally disappointing with both?

nope, didn't say that
I'd much rather have more secure borders, south, north, rafts from Cuba, and others coming on airliners

what I was saying is, exaggerating for dramatics and saying one side had a secure border and the other side is simply welcoming illegals across the border with open arms is wrong

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 08:01:40 PM

the "left" truly does have lizard brain. astonishing how stupid they make themselves look on twitter.

:043:

https://twitter.com/DefiantLs/status/1511334939823902720?s=20&t=opH6zEKwK6gpbtJ7aq5QxA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 08:04:58 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 07:53:23 PM

How's that wall coming?

not well, but I think that is a mistake
I'd rather have a more effective border security than what we have w/o a wall

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 08:05:30 PM

:043:

https://twitter.com/esaagar/status/1511309370314874882?s=20&t=opH6zEKwK6gpbtJ7aq5QxA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 08:06:09 PM

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1511332410176245773?s=20&t=opH6zEKwK6gpbtJ7aq5QxA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 08:10:20 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 07:42:59 PM

Trump is the best chance the Republicans have in 2024, according to all the early polling right now. 

he is also the best chance of causing a huge uprising from the left and middle because of who he is and the way he stirs emotions.

Huge easy target for his opponents
He obviously will be attacked, possibly by many in the Republican party this time

Biden is weak, the Republican party isn't desperate.  A decent regular Republican candidate can take down Biden

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 08:11:19 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 08:05:30 PM

:043:

https://twitter.com/esaagar/status/1511309370314874882?s=20&t=opH6zEKwK6gpbtJ7aq5QxA

probably wrote and published a VERY successful book 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 08:11:56 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 08:10:20 PM

 A decent regular Republican candidate can take down Biden

What the hell is that??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 08:13:25 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 08:04:58 PM

not well, but I think that is a mistake
I'd rather have a more effective border security than what we have w/o a wall

The border and its security is a distraction from the real problem.  The legal immigration system is broken.  But working towards fixing that isn't a 'gotcha' sound bite for whichever side you're on.

It's sad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 05, 2022, 08:13:30 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 07:45:06 PM

examples, please? there's a massive difference between censorship and suing someone for defamation or libel. and also a massive difference between firing someone or disciplining someone who works for you who is out of pocket with their mouth or going after someone who opens their mouth after they've signed an NDA.

Banned someone from buying a Tesla after something mean was said: https://fortune.com/2016/02/03/stewart-alsop-tesla/

Threatens to sue someone who said Tesla's stock might not be a good buy: https://www.fastcompany.com/90208132/elon-musk-allegedly-silenced-an-online-critic-with-peter-thiels-playbook

(There was the employee thing, where he not only canned a guy for speaking publicly, as one with the options for free speech might, but also basically deactivated features on his Tesla. Because remember, free speech is vital, but so it the ability of the wealthy to punish you for it, at least when they have their way)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 08:14:44 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 08:11:56 PM

What the hell is that??

Obama

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 08:17:51 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 05, 2022, 08:13:30 PM

Banned someone from buying a Tesla after something mean was said: https://fortune.com/2016/02/03/stewart-alsop-tesla/

Threatens to sue someone who said Tesla's stock might not be a good buy: https://www.fastcompany.com/90208132/elon-musk-allegedly-silenced-an-online-critic-with-peter-thiels-playbook

(There was the employee thing, where he not only canned a guy for speaking publicly, as one with the options for free speech might, but also basically deactivated features on his Tesla. Because remember, free speech is vital, but so it the ability of the wealthy to punish you for it, at least when they have their way)

yeah, none of that is not restricting free speech. nice try though. 

I bet that moron who was shorting Tesla and talking shit about them is broke now. Tesla has went to the f***king moon since 2018. Imagine covering those shorts. :043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 08:19:02 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 08:13:25 PM

The border and its security is a distraction from the real problem.  The legal immigration system is broken.  But working towards fixing that isn't a 'gotcha' sound bite for whichever side you're on.

It's sad.

this 100%.

I think something like 2/3rd of people who are here illegally come on airplanes with work or visitor visas and then just over stay their visas. there's no wall for that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 08:19:23 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 08:13:25 PM

The border and its security is a distraction from the real problem.  The legal immigration system is broken.  But working towards fixing that isn't a 'gotcha' sound bite for whichever side you're on.

It's sad.

how many legal immigrants should be ushered in per month?
What are the conditions?  What conditions shouldn't be allowed?

if the legal process was "fixed" In your opinion, you think illegals would stop crossing the border illegally?

hoards of illegals is a problem

how much of a problem is not enough folks getting in legally?  is this a real problem?  Do we really need a much larger number of legal immigrants?  30,000/month?  130,000/month  1 million per month?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 08:21:26 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 08:19:23 PM

how many legal immigrants should be ushered in per month?
What are the conditions?  What conditions shouldn't be allowed?

if the legal process was "fixed" In your opinion, you think illegals would stop crossing the border illegally?

hoards of illegals is a problem

how much of a problem is not enough folks getting in legally?  is this a real problem?  Do we really need a much larger number of legal immigrants?  30,000/month?  130,000/month  1 million per month?

we have a f***k ton of land in this country and a small population relative to the amount of land we have. we could use millions more. easily.

I say we just finish the job and take over the rest of Mexico and absorb it into the US, send special forces in- kill all the Cartels and shut them down, fix it- and then they won't come here.

There's a lot of really nice land and beaches in Mexico.


:)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 08:23:44 PM

unfortunately, the hundreds of thousands of illegals aren't spreading out in Montanta, Idaho, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico and North Dakota

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 08:24:22 PM

Here is an example of the dems going too far left

this is the kind of crap that will beat them in the midterms 


https://freebeacon.com/biden-administration/biden-doj-warns-red-states-not-to-restrict-gender-affirming-care-for-trans-kids/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 08:24:48 PM

I have been to 6 REALLY nice beach resort areas in Mexico.  Great places to winter

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 05, 2022, 08:31:54 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 08:17:51 PM

yeah, none of that is not restricting free speech. nice try though.

I bet that moron who was shorting Tesla and talking shit about them is broke now. Tesla has went to the f***king moon since 2018. Imagine covering those shorts. :043:

"If you say this, you'll lose your job and will be singled out to have your property devalued"

"If you continue to speak, I'll make it deathly expensive. But stopping it free."

These are not the actions of a believer in free speech. They're the actions of someone who wants to cosplay that role when it's convenient. But of course, we'll bend and twist because it is our way to excuse the actions of those we like. 

We live in an interesting time for free speech and association. The legal system is used frighteningly often to chill free speech. A smattering of laws are being used to do the same. At times, we insist the law must force private parties to associate. Quite a time, quite a time. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 08:33:36 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 08:24:22 PM

Here is an example of the dems going too far left

this is the kind of crap that will beat them in the midterms


https://freebeacon.com/biden-administration/biden-doj-warns-red-states-not-to-restrict-gender-affirming-care-for-trans-kids/

that's an insanely stupid hill to die on- and not one that will win support. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 08:34:23 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 05, 2022, 08:31:54 PM

"If you say this, you'll lose your job and will be singled out to have your property devalued"

"If you continue to speak, I'll make it deathly expensive. But stopping it free."

These are not the actions of a believer in free speech. They're the actions of someone who wants to cosplay that role when it's convenient. But of course, we'll bend and twist because it is our way to excuse the actions of those we like.

We live in an interesting time for free speech and association. The legal system is used frighteningly often to chill free speech. A smattering of laws are being used to do the same. At times, we insist the law must force private parties to associate. Quite a time, quite a time.

YAWN. 

You're comparing apples to oranges. And none of it is restriction of free speech. Stop it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 08:39:50 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 08:19:23 PM

how many legal immigrants should be ushered in per month?
What are the conditions?  What conditions shouldn't be allowed?

if the legal process was "fixed" In your opinion, you think illegals would stop crossing the border illegally?

hoards of illegals is a problem

how much of a problem is not enough folks getting in legally?  is this a real problem?  Do we really need a much larger number of legal immigrants?  30,000/month?  130,000/month  1 million per month?

These would be discussed and settled.  The "slippery slope" defense is BS - it only becomes a slippery slope if you don't plan.

But none of your "what ifs" are the crux of the problem - the problem is the lack of timeliness in which legal immigration is processed + the cost.  Perfectly good, safe, quality people wait nearly a decade to get processed legally.  So if you're a person without the luxury of being able to wait that long, but are equally good, safe, and quality should.......uhh.......what?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 05, 2022, 08:41:28 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 08:24:22 PM

Here is an example of the dems going too far left

this is the kind of crap that will beat them in the midterms


https://freebeacon.com/biden-administration/biden-doj-warns-red-states-not-to-restrict-gender-affirming-care-for-trans-kids/

So I'm interested in this in a sort of peeling back the onion kind of way. 

The thing that will get them beat is simply supporting anything related to this trans business, which a lot of folks don't like one bit, correct?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 08:51:05 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 08:39:50 PM

These would be discussed and settled.  The "slippery slope" defense is BS - it only becomes a slippery slope if you don't plan.

But none of your "what ifs" are the crux of the problem - the problem is the lack of timeliness in which legal immigration is processed + the cost.  Perfectly good, safe, quality people wait nearly a decade to get processed legally.  So if you're a person without the luxury of being able to wait that long, but are equally good, safe, and quality should.......uhh.......what?

this all day long. it takes too long, the hoops these people have to jump through are insane, and the cost is ridiculous.

none of us would be here right now and America would be a poor shithole if they had these kind of asinine restrictions and roadblocks to legally immigrate when our parents, grandfathers, great-grandfathers, great-great grandfathers, great-great-great grandfathers, etc., etc., came here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 08:52:03 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 05, 2022, 08:41:28 PM

So I'm interested in this in a sort of peeling back the onion kind of way.

The thing that will get them beat is simply supporting anything related to this trans business, which a lot of folks don't like one bit, correct?

its the forcing the trans business on children 

The American people have no problem with an adult individual wanting a trans operation

Its the pushing it on children that gets folks riled up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 05, 2022, 08:52:19 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 08:34:23 PM

YAWN.

You're comparing apples to oranges. And none of it is restriction of free speech. Stop it.

I'm not gonna lie, I'm a bit disappointed. I thought you might someone who felt free speech was important. At least that what you told us.

Seems it only matters when private actors do things you don't like with their first amendment rights. Those acts are against the spirit of free speech, but it turns out the actual practice of free speech and creating a world that fosters it, that's not all that interesting for you. Pity really. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 08:54:50 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 08:52:03 PM

its the forcing the trans business on children

The American people have no problem with an adult individual wanting a trans operation

Its the pushing it on children that gets folks riled up

yup. which is why this entire fake media generated pushback on DeSantis wanting to keep that shit and talk of sex, gender, and genitals out of schools for kids in Preschool to 3rd grade. What moron could possibly have a problem with this?

Any teacher who tries to talk about any of that shit with kids that age should be killed anyway if you ask me. I'm all for having the state murder kid diddlers and pedos.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 08:55:58 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 08:51:05 PM

this all day long. it takes too long, the hoops these people have to jump through are insane, and the cost is ridiculous.

none of us would be here right now and America would be a poor shithole if they had these kind of asinine restrictions and roadblocks to legally immigrate when our parents, grandfathers, great-grandfathers, great-great grandfathers, great-great-great grandfathers, etc., etc., came here.

I have no problem with speeding up the legal process

I do have a problem with a President bypassing Congress and just opening the borders to one and all

Again what the Biden administration is doing is an impeachable offense

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 05, 2022, 08:56:04 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 08:52:03 PM

its the forcing the trans business on children

The American people have no problem with an adult individual wanting a trans operation

Its the pushing it on children that gets folks riled up

Ahh. So it's the notion that it's being forced on them or pushed by their parents that's the issue. And that it's specifically centered on operations. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 08:59:33 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 05, 2022, 08:52:19 PM

I'm not gonna lie, I'm a bit disappointed. I thought you might someone who felt free speech was important. At least that what you told us.

Seems it only matters when private actors do things you don't like with their first amendment rights. Those acts are against the spirit of free speech, but it turns out the actual practice of free speech and creating a world that fosters it, that's not all that interesting for you. Pity really.

I am all for free speech. Those aren't examples of restricting free speech to me. 

Twitter/FB should be classified as public utilities- no different than the telephone if you ask me. In many ways they are the new town square if you will. Restricting speech on those platforms to me is a complete violation of free speech rights.

You can have a blog or publish whatever you want. Someone can also sue you or threaten to sue you for libel. That is not restricting free speech. The guy could've kept publishing whatever he wanted-he chose not to.

Canceling someones order of a product you make is also not restricting free speech.

Firing an employee for popping off at the mouth is not restricting free speech. 

Restricting free speech is restricting free speech. That's it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 09:01:42 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 05, 2022, 08:56:04 PM

Ahh. So it's the notion that it's being forced on them or pushed by their parents that's the issue. And that it's specifically centered on operations.

The problem in Florida is that the parents were not consulted concerning transgender conclusions for kindergarden through 3rd grade

Again just to make sure you understand this was action taken by school districts without the parents even being told

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 09:06:01 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 08:59:33 PM

I am all for free speech. Those aren't examples of restricting free speech to me.

Twitter/FB should be classified as public utilities- no different than the telephone if you ask me. In many ways they are the new town square if you will. Restricting speech on those platforms to me is a complete violation of free speech rights.

You can have a blog or publish whatever you want. Someone can also sue you or threaten to sue you for libel. That is not restricting free speech. The guy could've kept publishing whatever he wanted-he chose not to.

Canceling someones order of a product you make is also not restricting free speech.

Firing an employee for popping off at the mouth is not restricting free speech.

Restricting free speech is restricting free speech. That's it.

I agree 100%

and I think thats part of the solution

Congress needs to pass legislation to make social media a utility and allow no censorship 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 09:06:53 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 09:01:42 PM

The problem in Florida is that the parents were not consulted concerning transgender conclusions for kindergarden through 3rd grade

Again just to make sure you understand this was action taken by school districts without the parents even being told

why it's even a controversial topic is beyond me. teachers have no business talking about any of that shit with children in Pre-K, Kindergarten, 1st grade, 2nd grade, or 3rd grade. Any grade really until high school. For young kids- teachers are there to teach them how to count, how to do basic math, how to read, how to spell, how to pronounce words. not to teach them about trans-sexuals, homosexuals, genitals, or sex. 

Any teacher that tries to talk to a classroom full of pre-schoolers or kindergartners about that crap deserves to have the ever loving shit beat out of them. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 09:09:03 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 08:54:50 PM

yup. which is why this entire fake media generated pushback on DeSantis wanting to keep that shit and talk of sex, gender, and genitals out of schools for kids in Preschool to 3rd grade. What moron could possibly have a problem with this?

Any teacher who tries to talk about any of that shit with kids that age should be killed anyway if you ask me. I'm all for having the state murder kid diddlers and pedos.

Your first paragraph has nothing to do with your 2nd paragraph.  You made quite a leap there.

The story about DeSantis and that 'thing' in FL is another faux-outrage "story" like critical race theory.  Republicans found a shiny red button on their electronic board that they realized they can push as many times as they want, and it keeps the constituency up-at-arms over and over again.  No matter how many times they push it, they get upset and start insisting laws are passed to combat NOTHING.

No sane 2nd grade teachers are discussing trans issues in public schools.
No sane 7th grade teachers are discussing critical race theory in public schools.

These are invented issues one certain political party is using to fearmonger its base into action. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 05, 2022, 09:09:30 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 09:01:42 PM

The problem in Florida is that the parents were not consulted concerning transgender conclusions for kindergarden through 3rd grade

Again just to make sure you understand this was action taken by school districts without the parents even being told

Would love to read about that, could you pass along the link?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 05, 2022, 09:11:39 PM

Talks of nationalizing private industry.  

That's some serious bidness, yo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 09:15:34 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 05, 2022, 09:09:30 PM

Would love to read about that, could you pass along the link?

Do you live in a cave in the Himalayas 

Just go to google and type Florida school districts forcing transgender on young students without parents permission and bingo you'll get a shitload of articles

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 09:16:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 08:39:50 PM

These would be discussed and settled.  The "slippery slope" defense is BS - it only becomes a slippery slope if you don't plan.

But none of your "what ifs" are the crux of the problem - the problem is the lack of timeliness in which legal immigration is processed + the cost.  Perfectly good, safe, quality people wait nearly a decade to get processed legally.  So if you're a person without the luxury of being able to wait that long, but are equally good, safe, and quality should.......uhh.......what?

I'm not worried about a slippery slope, just a question.  if the legal process was "fixed" In your opinion, you think illegals would stop crossing the border illegally?


and then, how horrible is it if a good, safe, quality person doesn't get in for a decade?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 09:17:32 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 05, 2022, 09:11:39 PM

Talks of nationalizing private industry. 

That's some serious bidness, yo.

I didnt say nationalize I said declare them utilities thats not nationalizing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 09:18:24 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 09:06:01 PM

I agree 100%

and I think thats part of the solution

Congress needs to pass legislation to make social media a utility and allow no censorship

the internet is nearly regulated like a utility

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 09:20:41 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 09:16:26 PM

I'm not worried about a slippery slope, just a question.  if the legal process was "fixed" In your opinion, you think illegals would stop crossing the border illegally?


and then, how horrible is it if a good, safe, quality person doesn't get in for a decade?

If it took a few months instead of a bunch of years, yes, a vast majority of the normal, harmless illegal immigrants would stop sneaking in.  

How horrible is waiting?  Idk, ask them.  Go get in line for a football game with your ticket, but wait in that line for 8 years.  And every 6 months, you are charged a random large amount of money (legal fees) by someone who doesn't speak your language.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 09:21:20 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 09:18:24 PM

the internet is nearly regulated like a utility

it is?

the only regulating on this site is utee 

that seems like a small price to pay

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 09:21:25 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 09:15:34 PM

Do you live in a cave in the Himalayas

Just go to google and type Florida school districts forcing transgender on young students without parents permission and bingo you'll get a shitload of articles

This is amazing.
An actual "I heard it on the internets" reply.  
Thank you for this. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 09:25:01 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 09:21:25 PM

This is amazing.
An actual "I heard it on the internets" reply. 
Thank you for this.

thats the stupidest thing youve said tonight and it was a high bar

are you saying youre not aware of the transgender controversy with school teachers and young children

you need to change where you get your news

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 09:26:38 PM

this is good lol...

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1511475727161565189?s=20&t=4HvSuucrnAnCJnvsDghfhA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 05, 2022, 09:27:23 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 09:09:03 PM

Your first paragraph has nothing to do with your 2nd paragraph.  You made quite a leap there.

The story about DeSantis and that 'thing' in FL is another faux-outrage "story" like critical race theory.  Republicans found a shiny red button on their electronic board that they realized they can push as many times as they want, and it keeps the constituency up-at-arms over and over again.  No matter how many times they push it, they get upset and start insisting laws are passed to combat NOTHING.

No sane 2nd grade teachers are discussing trans issues in public schools.
No sane 7th grade teachers are discussing critical race theory in public schools.

These are invented issues one certain political party is using to fearmonger its base into action. 

100% false. 

Denying that critical race theory is being taught in schools has been debunked and proven wrong, and documented over and over again. 

I watched numerous Florida teachers protesting the legislation DeSantis signed and they all openly admit they want to talk about their personal lives to their young students including what they did with their “partner that weekend”. 

Your answers are getting stale. Denying that antifa exists, Denying that Hunter Biden’s laptop exists, Denying that they’re teaching critical race theory in schools, denying that teachers are talking to young children about their genitals, you need to come up with a better defense for what you are doing. Trying to deny what is obvious continue to say it doesn’t exist it’s not working for you guys anymore and that’s why your poll numbers are so horrific.  

Your group try to deny that crime is a problem, tried to deny that you were calling for defunding the police, try to deny that inflation is a problem, tried to deny that gas prices are a problem and on and on and on.  Eventually you start to realize that everyone knows you’re full of shit and then you start to address the problem or at least try to. Why don’t you just skip the bullshit and go right to the heart of the matter.

The people protesting and shit talking DeSantis for signing legislation are not denying that it exists. They want to be able to talk to kindergarten through third graders about sexual orientation. They openly admit they do. Try to keep up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 09:33:33 PM

Your post is attributing a bunch of shit I never said.
I wish there was a name for that.....hmmm.....damn....


The world would be the same without your contribution.  
Thanks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 09:34:15 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 09:25:01 PM

thats the stupidest thing youve said tonight and it was a high bar

are you saying youre not aware of the transgender controversy with school teachers and young children

you need to change where you get your news

I'm aware that you're the target audience for the shiny button the republicans keep pushing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 05, 2022, 09:34:37 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 09:33:33 PM

Your post is attributing a bunch of shit I never said.
I wish there was a name for that.....hmmm.....damn....


The world would be the same without your contribution. 
Thanks.

And by the way- the majority of Americans polled strongly agree with the legislation Desantis just signed.  

The “Don’t say Gay” lie from you guys and your pet media worked for a while- until people with a brain actually started reading the legislation.

Now since you’re a teacher, I shouldn’t assume you agree that teacher shouldn’t be talking to kindergartners about their genitals. Maybe you feel different, no pun intended

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 05, 2022, 09:36:05 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 09:34:15 PM

I'm aware that you're the target audience for the shiny button the republicans keep pushing.

And you’re the typical deniers of the failure of all the things you support.

Teachers in Florida and many LGBTQ community, openly want students to hear that language from their teachers. Do you support that? Yes or no.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 09:49:17 PM

Lower elementary teachers have no reason to discuss any of that with their students.  That's why I said no sane teacher would do that.

You're doing the exact playbook here, now, though.
Invent a problem that isn't actually a problem, suggest teachers are conspiring to do verbal porn with 6 year olds, then asking if I support that.


You're a puppet and DeSantis has his hand up your ass.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 05, 2022, 09:54:58 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 09:49:17 PM

Lower elementary teachers have no reason to discuss any of that with their students.  That's why I said no sane teacher would do that.

You're doing the exact playbook here, now, though.
Invent a problem that isn't actually a problem, suggest teachers are conspiring to do verbal porn with 6 year olds, then asking if I support that.


You're a puppet and DeSantis has his hand up your ass.

And yet I’ve been watching teachers interviewed all week that openly say they want to discuss that stuff. You’re continuing your stupidity and dishonesty.

The real shiny red button that you and other idiots ascribe to is that somehow it’s homophobic to not let a teacher discuss gender orientation and their genitals with five-year-old.

Yet here you are making that case as predictable. You just have your head up your ass but as long as you can’t lay a finger on five  year olds- I support the legislation

if what you said was actually correct or even close to it - the legislation would not bother you but obviously it does. Looks like we hit a nerve Here. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 09:57:04 PM

if it's not real and not such a big deal than why are LGBQTRETARD teachers quitting all over Florida? Why is a piece of shit asshole company like Disney saying they are going to fight to overturn the legislation?

Disney- the wonderful woke company that has: monopolized and consolidated entire industries, used it's massive power to influence/change United States copyright and intellectual property right laws for the worse, run sweatshops in China, sued the shit out of elementary schools and day cares for drawing/painting the rat on school property, sued the family of a kid who died to take the image of Spider-Man down from his headstone, pioneered distribution contracts that borderline on mafia racketing, been nothing but a hazard to the labor movement, and has been rife with sex scandals (the previous VP of the company is in prison over child sex abuse charges).

F**K the rat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 05, 2022, 10:01:36 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 09:57:04 PM

if it's not real and not such a big deal than why are LGBQTRETARD teachers quitting all over Florida? Why is a piece of shit asshole company like Disney saying they are going to fight to overturn the legislation?

Disney- the wonderful woke company that has: monopolized and consolidated entire industries, used it's massive power to influence/change United States copyright and intellectual property right laws for the worse, run sweatshops in China, sued the shit out of elementary schools and day cares for drawing/painting the rat on school property, sued the family of a kid who died to take the image of Spider-Man down from his headstone, pioneered distribution contracts that borderline on mafia racketing, been nothing but a hazard to the labor movement, and has been rife with sex scandals (the previous VP of the company is in prison over child sex abuse charges).

F**K the rat.

Don’t forget they have Disney cruises to countries that completely banned homosexuality.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 10:03:54 PM

Oh yeah, how could I forget- Disney was a huge backer of that disgusting scoundrel Harvey Weinstein. Disney gave that disgusting rapist human filth scumbag millions and backed his Miramax studio and wound up purchasing Miramax from Weinstein for over $60 million and then paid him millions to continue to run it. And when he left to open The Weinstein Company- they backed him then too. 

F**K the rat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 05, 2022, 10:18:02 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 08:59:33 PM

I am all for free speech. Those aren't examples of restricting free speech to me.

Twitter/FB should be classified as public utilities- no different than the telephone if you ask me. In many ways they are the new town square if you will. Restricting speech on those platforms to me is a complete violation of free speech rights.

You can have a blog or publish whatever you want. Someone can also sue you or threaten to sue you for libel. That is not restricting free speech. The guy could've kept publishing whatever he wanted-he chose not to.

Canceling someones order of a product you make is also not restricting free speech.

Firing an employee for popping off at the mouth is not restricting free speech.

Restricting free speech is restricting free speech. That's it.

This narrow view is, again, disappointing.

These are real issues of free speech. Real questions about how we as a society prevent dialogue that might offend the powerful from being chilled. And it's all brushed aside. Why? I have guesses. Shoot, libel lawsuits are very, very much threats to free speech. 

Explaining that "Restricting speech on those platforms to me is a complete violation of free speech rights" is not very meaningful. You have no right to speak on Twitter. None. At all. You have an allowance from the people who run it, as it is a private platform. That is how this works. The same way the managers of this board could throw us off if they saw fit (they can also delete our posts, when they so choose). And a powerful person thrown of twitter or Facebook, they have many, many avenues to speech. They're free to start competitors, join already existing competitors. 

If a social media platform want to throw someone off, that's an actual exercise of a first amendment right, the freedom of association. And what so many want seems to be that for exercising that first amendment right, the owners should be deprived of property. 

I suppose if we think about speech in the most narrow ways, with out feelings being the guide, we'll land at the same place. We'll fire off our political takes, wrap them in the mantle of "free speech" because it makes us feel righteous, and work to erode the meaning of this bedrock of our great country. 

(And if Elon starts banning his critics, I'll be in the same corner. He'd 100 percent have the right to do it, and he'd be showing his words about free speech were simply empty)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 10:29:23 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 09:57:04 PM

if it's not real and not such a big deal than why are LGBQTRETARD teachers quitting all over Florida? Why is a piece of shit asshole company like Disney saying they are going to fight to overturn the legislation?

Because the radical left is nuts.

You see, the radical anything is nuts....which is why they're radical.

HB acting like a fire-and-brimstone preacher is hilarious, though.  A vast majority of people are for this legislation?  Great.  I bet a vast majority of people are for not bombing Venus.  
It's not a real issue.  It's the radical 5% of either end going batshit crazy.  HB is inventing that it's hit a nerve with me, which is beyond bizarre.  I guess discussing something = hit a nerve.  

Let's talk about boob size....but I'll be careful not to post more than twice about it, or else it will have hit a nerve with me, lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 10:31:19 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 05, 2022, 10:18:02 PM

This narrow view is, again, disappointing.

These are real issues of free speech. Real questions about how we as a society prevent dialogue that might offend the powerful from being chilled. And it's all brushed aside. Why? I have guesses. Shoot, libel lawsuits are very, very much threats to free speech.

Explaining that "Restricting speech on those platforms to me is a complete violation of free speech rights" is not very meaningful. You have no right to speak on Twitter. None. At all. You have an allowance from the people who run it, as it is a private platform. That is how this works. The same way the managers of this board could throw us off if they saw fit (they can also delete our posts, when they so choose). And a powerful person thrown of twitter or Facebook, they have many, many avenues to speech. They're free to start competitors, join already existing competitors.

If a social media platform want to throw someone off, that's an actual exercise of a first amendment right, the freedom of association. And what so many want seems to be that for exercising that first amendment right, the owners should be deprived of property.

I suppose if we think about speech in the most narrow ways, with out feelings being the guide, we'll land at the same place. We'll fire off our political takes, wrap them in the mantle of "free speech" because it makes us feel righteous, and work to erode the meaning of this bedrock of our great country.

(And if Elon starts banning his critics, I'll be in the same corner. He'd 100 percent have the right to do it, and he'd be showing his words about free speech were simply empty)

from everything he has said I expect that twitter will have a lot less censorship and more free speech and will be very surprised and disappointed if thats not the case

Im not going to argue the 1st amendment vs private ownership but will say when the republicans take over there will be legislation to support free speech on social media and I will welcome it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2022, 10:31:58 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/277748907_4840168479415298_2091716950794889970_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=gmTvT2kwQ5AAX_JuVqn&tn=_MnT8OkIfzNoswba&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT979cSGrrBWLzAGa4ENArowI1xyIPjeIhFC3v4pRSYdow&oe=6252BCA8)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 05, 2022, 10:36:59 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 09:15:34 PM

Do you live in a cave in the Himalayas

Just go to google and type Florida school districts forcing transgender on young students without parents permission and bingo you'll get a shitload of articles

I try to avoid biased media sources on both sides, so topics intended to spur political elbow throwing find me less frequently. But I just Googled what you said. 

I see articles on two cases. Both involve middle schoolers 12 and older. In each case, the kid came to the school mentioning things, and the school was somewhere between accommodating and over accommodating. So not per say forcing anyone to do anything but allowing elements of it to proceed. They also didn't tell the parents, which feels like a violation of sorts (I think if something is shared in confidence, there's a value in confidence existing, but once you start accommodating, I'm pretty leery of holding back).

Would be interested if there were current laws that were actually violated. On an early scan, none of the stories reference Florida's parental bill of rights, which you think would make it a slam dunk, and in turn make it weird it's not more prominent in the suit. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 10:37:55 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 10:29:23 PM

Because the radical left is nuts.

You see, the radical anything is nuts....which is why they're radical.

HB acting like a fire-and-brimstone preacher is hilarious, though.  A vast majority of people are for this legislation?  Great.  I bet a vast majority of people are for not bombing Venus. 
It's not a real issue.  It's the radical 5% of either end going batshit crazy.  HB is inventing that it's hit a nerve with me, which is beyond bizarre.  I guess discussing something = hit a nerve. 

Let's talk about boob size....but I'll be careful not to post more than twice about it, or else it will have hit a nerve with me, lol.

Florida passed a law to stop that crap and if the problem that was addressed was imaginary no one would have protested it.  That should be proof enough. 

We went through the same thing with CRT.  When the left is called on it and they find out the vast majority of Americans  are against it they realize they are on weak ground and pretend there never was a problem

You do this very well

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 05, 2022, 10:39:54 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 10:31:19 PM

from everything he has said I expect that twitter will have a lot less censorship and more free speech and will be very surprised and disappointed if thats not the case

Im not going to argue the 1st amendment vs private ownership but will say when the republicans take over there will be legislation to support free speech on social media and I will welcome it

It's interesting. There have been a lot of pushes for more "free speech" platforms. The issue is that people REALLY don't behave, they turn into cesspools and eventually they get moderated to one degree or another. 

Now, maybe turning Twitter and Facebook into even bigger cesspools will drive more folks off, and that might be a positive externality. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 05, 2022, 10:45:59 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 10:37:55 PM

Florida passed a law to stop that crap and if the problem that was addressed was imaginary no one would have protested it.  That should be proof enough. 

We went through the same thing with CRT.  When the left is called on it and they find out the vast majority of Americans  are against it they realize they are on weak ground and pretend there never was a problem

You do this very well

Bingo. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 10:55:58 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 05, 2022, 10:37:55 PM

Florida passed a law to stop that crap and if the problem that was addressed was imaginary no one would have protested it.  That should be proof enough. 

We went through the same thing with CRT.  When the left is called on it and they find out the vast majority of Americans  are against it they realize they are on weak ground and pretend there never was a problem

You do this very well

CRT is another dog whistle.
You don't know that because you're the dog.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 11:12:51 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 05, 2022, 10:18:02 PM

This narrow view is, again, disappointing.

These are real issues of free speech. Real questions about how we as a society prevent dialogue that might offend the powerful from being chilled. And it's all brushed aside. Why? I have guesses. Shoot, libel lawsuits are very, very much threats to free speech.

Explaining that "Restricting speech on those platforms to me is a complete violation of free speech rights" is not very meaningful. You have no right to speak on Twitter. None. At all. You have an allowance from the people who run it, as it is a private platform. That is how this works. The same way the managers of this board could throw us off if they saw fit (they can also delete our posts, when they so choose). And a powerful person thrown of twitter or Facebook, they have many, many avenues to speech. They're free to start competitors, join already existing competitors.

If a social media platform want to throw someone off, that's an actual exercise of a first amendment right, the freedom of association. And what so many want seems to be that for exercising that first amendment right, the owners should be deprived of property.

I suppose if we think about speech in the most narrow ways, with out feelings being the guide, we'll land at the same place. We'll fire off our political takes, wrap them in the mantle of "free speech" because it makes us feel righteous, and work to erode the meaning of this bedrock of our great country.

(And if Elon starts banning his critics, I'll be in the same corner. He'd 100 percent have the right to do it, and he'd be showing his words about free speech were simply empty)

You have a right to say or write pretty much whatever you like. I believe that 1000000% with all my being. You also have to take the consequences that come with what you say and write however. I can talk shit about my boss or my company I work for- and then my boss can absolutely fire me. Canceling someone's order for talking bad about your company is stupid- but products do not equal speech. Money does not equal speech. Speech = speech.

And libel law suites are absolutely a necessity. People cannot be allowed to knowingly defame and defraud willy nilly. Can rich guys plays fast and loose and abuse those type of law suites to try and bully and intimidate people a lot less rich then them? Of course they can. But that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of valid cases where libel suites are necessary.

Free speech is nearly absolute- but it does have limits. You can't threaten someone with violence. You can't defraud and defame someone. Obviously you cannot publish illegal disgusting things like child pornography. But outside of that- pretty much everything else is fair game.

You're right- no one has free speech rights on platforms like Twitter or Facebook right now. They are private companies. But my opinion is that they should be reclassified as public utilities- almost like the telephone- and that everyone should have protected free speech rights- by law- on these platforms. These platforms have become the de facto public square/town hall- and free and open dialogue should be protected on them.

Facebook and Twitter have exemptions by law- they are shielded from liability by law-  for whatever a user on their platform writes or shares. If they are to enjoy this special right- then there really is not a single valid god damn reason for them to go on their insane censorship campaigns. Ban/censor people that break the law on the platforms- death threats, specific acts of violence, etc., etc.. Leave everyone and everything else the hell alone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 11:13:46 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 10:29:23 PM

Because the radical left is nuts.

You see, the radical anything is nuts....which is why they're radical.

HB acting like a fire-and-brimstone preacher is hilarious, though.  A vast majority of people are for this legislation?  Great.  I bet a vast majority of people are for not bombing Venus. 
It's not a real issue.  It's the radical 5% of either end going batshit crazy.  HB is inventing that it's hit a nerve with me, which is beyond bizarre.  I guess discussing something = hit a nerve. 

Let's talk about boob size....but I'll be careful not to post more than twice about it, or else it will have hit a nerve with me, lol.

Ok. I see what you're saying. And I think I actually kind of agree with you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 11:21:15 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 05, 2022, 10:01:36 PM

Don’t forget they have Disney cruises to countries that completely banned homosexuality.

yeah, not too well thought out there on Disney's part. reminds me of the people you see driving their minivans or priuses with Ukraine flag stickers next to their LGBTQ flag sticker.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 05, 2022, 11:31:40 PM

1) I'm all for discussions of boob size.  I'll talk about it all day.

2) I'm all for bombing Venus.  Hit them before they hit us, is what I say.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 05, 2022, 11:52:24 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 11:12:51 PM

You have a right to say or write pretty much whatever you like. I believe that 1000000% with all my being. You also have to take the consequences that come with what you say and write however. 

Sometimes one of those consequences is that a private company decides to no longer associate with you. 

And if it's in the spirit of free speech for that company to host you regardless, it's probably the spirit of free speech to not wield threats or devalue your property out of spite. 

Seems like we go narrow, with actual legal elements, or broad with the spirit. Feels weird to pick and choose when it favors the cool technocrats. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 06:46:20 AM

Imagine we passed a law making it illegal to say drive a car with a blindfold on.  One could object saying "Hey, nobody does that, we don't need such a law." which would be fine, I dislike spurious laws.  But I wouldn't object so aggressively about it.  You just banned a thing that never happens, meh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 06, 2022, 06:48:01 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 10:55:58 PM

CRT is another dog whistle.
You don't know that because you're the dog.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/yes-critical-race-theory-is-being-taught-in-public-schools/ar-AAM2t1V

https://www.texaspolicy.com/yes-critical-race-theory-is-taught-in-texas-schools/

Try to keep up. The left strategy of denying has failed.  Denying that CRT is being taught has not only been fully debunked- it is no longer your lefty strategy.  Your team has now moved past that-and into defending it, and eventually will move into the “ claim the other side is behind it”phase. Ya know, your established playbook, same one you use for everything ( see: BLM isn’t violent, Antifa doesn’t exist, Hunter Biden Laptop is disinformation, we aren’t anti law enforcement, our new spending spree is good for the economy and will curb inflation, asking for ID to vote is racist, etc, etc, etc)

I could literally post 100 examples like the one above, by non partisan sources, about CRT being taught.  That’s how you lost The election in West Virginia.  Parents and the American public is on to you. 

That’s why you need to get the latest strategy talking points from you lib associates.  Calling something a dog whistle when it obviously is VERY real has completely failed.

Move into the honest defense if your bad ideas, it’s liberating.  Just like all the left biased media has now tried to do hit pieces on Desantis for this recent parental rights bill he signed.  They do want to expose k-3rd graders to conversations about their sexual orientation and private parts.  They are saying so- and loudly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 06:52:53 AM

Can anyone offer a succinct nonpartisan definition of CRT and how it differs from say mainstream thinking, if it does?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 06, 2022, 06:57:48 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 06:52:53 AM

Can anyone offer a succinct nonpartisan definition of CRT and how it differs from say mainstream thinking, if it does?

https://abcnews.go.com/US/critical-race-theory-classroom-understanding-debate/story?id=77627465

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 07:02:21 AM

That isn't very succinct, but whatever.  Obviously, teaching history is desirable (learning history is even better).  If CRT is in effect noting black folks have suffered discrimination for decades, that is history.  I think the political aspect is what is taught about reality TODAY.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 07:02:58 AM

I get a feeling that a lot of this stuff is 99% political silliness solving problems that rarely exist, if at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 06, 2022, 07:03:20 AM

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2022/04/01/narcissistic-fla-teacher-distraught-she-wont-be-able-to-share-details-of-personal-life-with-first-graders-1220184/

Have seen a few dozen interviews like this    
 
Dog whistle?  Riiiggghhhttt.  😂😉

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 06, 2022, 07:07:48 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 07:02:58 AM

I get a feeling that a lot of this stuff is 99% political silliness solving problems that rarely exist, if at all.

Do some research.  

you take that position on just about everything by the way. 

Did you watch that recent Gubernatorial election, where the guy with the big lead said “ parents should not have a say in what is taught in the classroom.”?  That whole thing was because parents discovered that CRT and other items around sexual orientation were being taught. 

and obviously that candidate lost big time.  And that’s when the party he belongs to move away from the denial phase and then to the let’s defend it phase.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 07:08:27 AM

A few dozen out of how many first grade teachers?  Some teachers are just poor teachers, many in my experience were.  I can't recall ever knowing whether a teacher was married or not.  I do think their personal lives should be kept out of the classroom entirely, but whether we need a law on that I am a bit more dubious.

I don't think it's really enforceable anyway, and it to me is solving a nonproblem, or rare problem.  But it makes political headlines and disinformation and avoids trying to solve any real problems that may exist.  I could be wrong, this might be a serious issue in the classroom that happens frequently, but it seems to me the underlying issue is these teachers are not proficient as teachers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 07:11:55 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 06, 2022, 07:07:48 AM

Do some research. 

you take that position on just about everything by the way.

I find doing "research" to get a nonpartisan realistic view of any political topic is very difficult.  People read what they want to believe, instead of searching for the best of what is reality.  Research is started from a highly partisan position with confirmation bias involved.  I was taught not to do that, with some hard lessons.

I do know politicians like to take a nonissue and create a major stir.  I do know the media largely presents their own spin on topics leaving out important perspectives.  Thee things get people incensed, and both parties benefit when that happens, and in the mean time "we" ignore the real tough issues that do exist.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 06, 2022, 07:12:13 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 07:08:27 AM

A few dozen out of how many first grade teachers?  Some teachers are just poor teachers, many in my experience were.  I can't recall ever knowing whether a teacher was married or not.  I do think their personal lives should be kept out of the classroom entirely, but whether we need a law on that I am a bit more dubious.

I don't think it's really enforceable anyway, and it to me is solving a nonproblem, or rare problem.  But it makes political headlines and disinformation and avoids trying to solve any real problems that may exist.  I could be wrong, this might be a serious issue in the classroom that happens frequently, but it seems to me the underlying issue is these teachers are not proficient as teachers.

A few dozen who were interviewed. 

The loud media voices and corporate voices who have demonstrably opposed this legislation are not in agreement with you. They are not taking the opposite position because it isn’t a problem. They are taking it because they disagree with what can and should be taught in schools. They are proving your point incorrect.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 06, 2022, 07:18:50 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 07:11:55 AM

I find doing "research" to get a nonpartisan realistic view of any political topic is very difficult.  People read what they want to believe, instead of searching for the best of what is reality.  Research is started from a highly partisan position with confirmation bias involved.  I was taught not to do that, with some hard lessons.

I do know politicians like to take a nonissue and create a major stir.  I do know the media largely presents their own spin on topics leaving out important perspectives.  Thee things get people incensed, and both parties benefit when that happens, and in the mean time "we" ignore the real tough issues that do exist.

I have a neighbor who was incensed when he learned what his kid was being taugh in a LOCAL school.  Real life.   He pulled his kid out and is paying for private school. That’s not research. you are a bit behind on this issue.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2022, 08:12:40 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 05, 2022, 07:42:59 PM

Trump is the best chance the Republicans have in 2024, according to all the early polling right now. He just has to keep his mouth shut. COVID and some of the ridiculous sh*t that came out of his mouth cost himself the last election if you ask me. The entire press lining up to squash/suppress and discredit the obvious true story of Hunter Biden's laptop from hell certainly may have cost him as well.

As far as the deep state thing goes- that sh*t was WILD. You basically saw the CIA work in tandem with the Democratic party to take down an elected republican President. That interview with Chuck Schumer where he warned Trump before Trump ever took office to leave the intelligence services alone and that they have "six ways from Sunday to get back at you" gives me goosebumps every time I watch it. CRAZY shit.

I think they could run Winnie the Pooh out there and beat the current admin. Soundly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 08:17:08 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 06, 2022, 07:18:50 AM

I have a neighbor who was incensed when he learned what his kid was being taugh in a LOCAL school.  Real life.  He pulled his kid out and is paying for private school. That’s not research. you are a bit behind on this issue. 

OK, that is what we call anecdotal evidence, one dad was incensed about something.  This could be a problem, I'm far from an expert.  It does sound to me like the kind of thing that is a rare issue blown up into a major deal with some new law that probably is not enforceable, but sounds good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2022, 08:18:34 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 08:13:25 PM

The border and its security is a distraction from the real problem.  The legal immigration system is broken.  But working towards fixing that isn't a 'gotcha' sound bite for whichever side you're on.

It's sad.

I have a good friend from Puerto Rico who happens to be a Federal Immigration Judge.

The system is NOT broken, according to her, and she has been in her position for 35 years.

What IS broken is the interpretation and bastardization of said system by the Legislative and Executive branches - who need to stay the F out of it and uphold the Constitution. You know, live up to the oath they all swore to.

That is NOT happening right now - especially on the Executive side.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 06, 2022, 08:22:35 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 06, 2022, 06:57:48 AM

https://abcnews.go.com/US/critical-race-theory-classroom-understanding-debate/story?id=77627465

“Critical race theory is a study in academia based on the concepts of systemic and institutional racism. Systemic racism (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/terms-systemic-racism-microaggression-white-fragility/story?id=71195820) refers to how the government has discriminated against Black, Indigenous and other people of color through unjust policies concerning housing, employment, criminal justice, education and more.”

The most succinct definition in there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 06, 2022, 08:23:57 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2022, 08:12:40 AM

I think they could run Winnie the Pooh out there and beat the current admin. Soundly.

Could … could they do that? He seems more agreeable than most pols out there. Though you might have to convince him to wear pants. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 08:25:07 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 06, 2022, 08:22:35 AM

“Critical race theory is a study in academia based on the concepts of systemic and institutional racism. Systemic racism (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/terms-systemic-racism-microaggression-white-fragility/story?id=71195820) refers to how the government has discriminated against Black, Indigenous and other people of color through unjust policies concerning housing, employment, criminal justice, education and more.”

The most succinct definition in there. 

Why is anyone against that teaching?  It's true.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 06, 2022, 08:27:56 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 08:17:08 AM

OK, that is what we call anecdotal evidence, one dad was incensed about something.  This could be a problem, I'm far from an expert.  It does sound to me like the kind of thing that is a rare issue blown up into a major deal with some new law that probably is not enforceable, but sounds good.

You realize don’t you that Governor DeSantis did not start or offer this legislation. I followed it closely since it began and it began as parents being extremely vocal about what they heard their kids were learning in school so they went to their local legislators who wrote the legislation and Governor DeSantis signed it. That’s not anecdotal that’s real life. It’s called the government actually working to solve the problems that the people feel are their problems

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 08:29:58 AM

I've seen my wife and her kids go through the immigration process and it's not fun at all.  There are some very screwy and unneeded steps in it, and it could be modernized in my view, particularly with the quotas.  But like Social Security, no politician will touch it beyond mouthing platitudes because "the other side" will demonize any proposal made.  SS has a number of simple fixes, but no one can touch it.  A lot of issues do, so politicians just ignore it beyond platitudes.


It reminds me of climate change though there they can at least throw money at it randomly and pretend.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2022, 08:36:39 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 08:25:07 AM

Why is anyone against that teaching?  It's true. 

I think it's true too - but the way it's being taught is not appropriate. The way it is being taught in many places is not good.

White kids are being taught they they are bad because they are white. Take a deep dive and you will find this to be true also.

Yes, the history is absolutely disgusting. There is no question about this.

The question is about how it is being taught - by people who like to re-write the history.

Read the 1619 Project if you find time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 08:39:41 AM

OK, so it's not CRT exactly but HOW it is being taught that is the issue.  So, banning teaching CRT won't really do anything.

It's banning teaching real history and not addressing the actual problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2022, 08:49:44 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 08:39:41 AM

OK, so it's not CRT exactly but HOW it is being taught that is the issue.  So, banning teaching CRT won't really do anything.

It's banning teaching real history and not addressing the actual problem.

They could go back to how it was taught when you, me and everyone else on this board (we're all old) were taught history. This is what DeSantis wants for his state.

Teachers are supposed to present facts, not editorials. This is what DeSantis wants for his state.

Nobody is opposed to teaching history - as ugly as a good bit of it is.

***************************************************

I've got a grandchild now - can't wait to see her Friday.

Do not want her anywhere near a teacher who goes down the 1619 road. About 250,000,000 people are with me on this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 06, 2022, 08:54:21 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2022, 03:13:12 PM

MOST of what they report is factual.  MOST of what they report is what others have said, like theh "Russian disinformation" story.  They reported that some former intelligence types said it had all the hallmarks of Russian disinformation.

That is entirely true.  Those folks did say that.  Their report of the stock market averages are factual, the basketball score is factual, that somebody said something is factual.

Right now their headline is what Zelensky said, and that is factual.

I'm not saying I like CNN at all, I don't, but I am very wary of any news outlet.  They can present facts in such a way as to distort the actual meaning.

Yes, what they and other outlets report is mostly factual. It is the practice of alligning those facts and hiding others to support a narrative that comes into question. And I don't need a news organization to report what someone said, I can read that for myself. What they fail to do is to quesiton those someone's in an attempt to get to the heart of a story and to dig for the truth even when it goes against your beliefs that CNN, Fox, MSNBC and others fail to do. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 08:55:02 AM

Back in the 90s when I was still attending these things, we had mandatory "diversity training", a large part of which was to tell us whites were privileged and racist.  In one session it was so overt that a black coworker interrupted to say it wasn't true in our workplace.  That got things stirred up and the moderator lost control of the event.

The older hands would sit through this stuff quietly and get it over as quickly as possible, some of the newer employees took it more seriously and would "engage" until we told them to shut up.  Often the event would be planned for the entire day and we'd by out by 2 PM and go home.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 08:56:27 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 06, 2022, 08:54:21 AM

Yes, what they and other outlets report is mostly factual. It is the practice of alligning those facts and hiding others to support a narrative that comes into question. And I don't need a news organization to report what someone said, I can read that for myself. What they fail to do is to quesiton those someone's in an attempt to get to the heart of a story and to dig for the truth even when it goes against your beliefs that CNN, Fox, MSNBC and others fail to do.

Where would you read what someone said if they didn't report it?  It's really most of what gets reported.  It's easy to do, and they can pick and choose what they report to get viewers to click.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 08:57:29 AM

I don't see how a law can adjust how a topic is taught.  It would be so vaguely worded as to be useless and unenforceable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2022, 09:03:25 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 08:57:29 AM

I don't see how a law can adjust how a topic is taught.  It would be so vaguely worded as to be useless and unenforceable.

It doesn't need to be a law. Just needs to be common sense - which is why some states are enacting laws. Far too many people have no common sense.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 09:04:37 AM

Why pass a law if it's not needed?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2022, 09:08:10 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 09:04:37 AM

Why pass a law if it's not needed?

What I meant was it shouldn't be needed. But, due to a lack of common sense among so many, it was passed.

Perhaps I was not clear enough.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 06, 2022, 09:09:04 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2022, 08:13:25 PM

The border and its security is a distraction from the real problem.  The legal immigration system is broken.  But working towards fixing that isn't a 'gotcha' sound bite for whichever side you're on.

It's sad.

No, the secrutiy at the border needs to happen before the immigration system is fixed. Without a secure border, there will be no need for an immigration system as people will (and are) just walking across the border as they please. The Border Patrol is so busy processing those that happen to turn themselves in that they don't have time for border enforcement making them nothing but a concierge service. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 06, 2022, 09:14:42 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2022, 08:36:39 AM

I think it's true too - but the way it's being taught is not appropriate. The way it is being taught in many places is not good.

Critical race theory isn't being taught anywhere outside of law school.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 06, 2022, 09:28:13 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on April 06, 2022, 09:14:42 AM

Critical race theory isn't being taught anywhere outside of law school.

😂😂😂😂.   How would you like me to show you the books that are being taught in elementary school which teach you that “white children sold their souls to the devil”.   
bullshit.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 06, 2022, 09:31:41 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 06:52:53 AM

Can anyone offer a succinct nonpartisan definition of CRT and how it differs from say mainstream thinking, if it does?

CRT is based on the 1619 project that was written by Nicole Hannah-Jones for the New York Times. 

Quote

The 1619 Project is a long-form journalism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-form_journalism) endeavor developed by Nikole Hannah-Jones (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikole_Hannah-Jones), writers from The New York Times (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Times), and The New York Times Magazine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Times_Magazine) which "aims to reframe the country's history by placing the consequences of slavery (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_United_States) and the contributions of Black Americans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Americans) at the very center of the United States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_United_States)' national narrative.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_1619_Project

The basic tenets of the 1619 project was that America is an inherently racist nation and that white people are born racist with no ability to change. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2022, 09:35:39 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on April 06, 2022, 09:14:42 AM

Critical race theory isn't being taught anywhere outside of law school.

Military?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 06, 2022, 09:37:12 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 08:56:27 AM

Where would you read what someone said if they didn't report it?  It's really most of what gets reported.  It's easy to do, and they can pick and choose what they report to get viewers to click.

When other outlets report the same story. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 06, 2022, 09:37:32 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 06, 2022, 09:28:13 AM

😂😂😂😂.  How would you like me to show you the books that are being taught in elementary school which teach you that “white children sold their souls to the devil”. 
bullshit. 

I would like to see those.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 09:48:22 AM

As I noted, I was "taught" this sort of thing in the 90s.  Of course I was an adult.

It's possible all this is over blown.  It's also possible it's a problem in certain areas, maybe with only a few bad teachers.  It's also possible these laws really won't do anything useful and are meant as political ploys on both sides.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 06, 2022, 09:53:33 AM

We don't need no education
We don't need no thought control
No dark sarcasm in the classroom
Teachers, leave them kids alone
Hey, teachers, leave those kids alone

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 10:00:18 AM

My general notion is that politicians stir up fake problems they can then "solve" with unenforceable laws and get their based stirred up.  I don't mean this is always the case, but I see it happen quite often.  Then their political opponents do the same in reverse.

Heaven forbid they should actually take on real problems and find compromise solutions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 06, 2022, 10:02:34 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 06, 2022, 09:31:41 AM

CRT is based on the 1619 project that was written by Nicole Hannah-Jones for the New York Times.

My friend, this is simply not the case. 

But it does point to the rather scrambled messaging around it as a political football. At this point, “CRT” encompasses most things either diversity or race related that can trigger some folks. 

It’s quite effective, really. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 10:12:10 AM

The 1619 Project • Critical Race Training in Education (https://criticalrace.org/the-1619-project/)

The main focus of CriticalRace.org is Critical Race Theory (CRT) and its applications in higher education, as this is where the ideology was first developed and where many individuals are trained. While CRT has been around for a few decades, it really has gained prominence since the rise of the Black Lives Matter (BLM) movement, serving as an intellectual underpinning to grant the movement a perception of legitimacy as a civil rights movement. The 1619 Project attempts to bring all these forces together to reimagine and revise the historical narrative of America. The central premise is that America was not founded in 1776, or in the early colonies, or when the Constitution was ratified. According to this new interpretation, the functional founding of America occurred when the first enslaved Africans arrived on the North American continent. Further, the authors claim, the colonists fought the Revolutionary War primarily to protect the slave trade. First published in August 2019 by New York Times Magazine, the 1619 Project (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_1619_Project) “aims to reframe the country’s history by placing the consequences of slavery and the contributions of Black Americans at the very center of the United States’ national narrative.” Activists have proposed the 1619 Project as history curriculum in elementary, secondary, and higher education.

In response, a growing number of historians, scholars, and critics have written about some of the logical fallacies, false equivalencies, and historical errors in the 1619 Project.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2022, 10:15:28 AM

I had to take a diversity training course last week. I thought it was fine. Nobody told me I was bad because I'm white. Had they did, I'd have shut it off and walked away.

Scored 98% on the test. Missed one question (I think I was correct, however).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2022, 10:17:07 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 10:12:10 AM

“aims to reframe the country’s history...

And therein lies the problem.

Thank you for getting into it a little bit. Read the whole thing if you find time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2022, 10:20:37 AM

I asked a director once why we had this training.  He told me he had $X in his budget for it and had to do it, he asked his admin to find some outside outfit to hire and do the training.  It wasn't vetted at all by anyone, and it usually was garbage.  I think I can say it always was garbage but some was worse than others.

The things were "mandatory", but I stopped going and nothing ever happened.  I didn't go to any of this sort of things for my last 10+ years.  I got into a bit of trouble for one of them I kept skipping on when the VP's admin called me and gave me a choice of attending in September or December.  It was a full week off site crap.  I told her December and she signed me up, motel reservations and all.

I retired that October.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2022, 10:51:30 AM

We have to do it to comply with Illinois law. 

I'd do it anyway, because it's required to renew my P.E. and P.L.S. licenses.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 06, 2022, 10:58:50 AM

We have annual ethics and compliance training, and now after BLM, we also have annual diversity training.  It's fine, nothing controversial unless you're actually someone that believes people of another gender, race, ethnicity, color, creed, or orientation, are automatically inferior to you because of that specific difference.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 06, 2022, 11:24:02 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 06, 2022, 10:58:50 AM

We have annual ethics and compliance training, and now after BLM, we also have annual diversity training.  It's fine, nothing controversial unless you're actually someone that believes people of another gender, race, ethnicity, color, creed, or orientation, are automatically inferior to you because of that specific difference.

speaking of BLM....there might not be a bigger sham organization out there.

The Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation has received something like $90 million in donations since it's foundation- and it was just revealed that one of the founders has been living in a 7,400 sq ft mansion that the foundation bought in secret in 2020 for $6 million in LA.

There are all kinds of stories like this about misappropriations of money- basically fraud and embezzlement- from the founder and higher ups. The families of people like George Floyd and other martyrs of that movement have spoken out against them as well. They use these families and tragedies to generate income (donations) and give the families and victims basically nothing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 06, 2022, 11:49:21 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 06, 2022, 11:24:02 AM

speaking of BLM....there might not be a bigger sham organization out there.

The Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation has received something like $90 million in donations since it's foundation- and it was just revealed that one of the founders has been living in a 7,400 sq ft mansion that the foundation bought in secret in 2020 for $6 million in LA.

There are all kinds of stories like this about misappropriations of money- basically fraud and embezzlement- from the founder and higher ups. The families of people like George Floyd and other martyrs of that movement have spoken out against them as well. They use these families and tragedies to generate income (donations) and give the families and victims basically nothing.

Basically anyone who started an organization with that in the name was an in-over-their-head idealist or a grifter, with the latter camp being larger. If this, there is little doubt.

(People’s ability to grift off the topic of the moment is something to behold)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 06, 2022, 12:05:56 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 06, 2022, 11:49:21 AM

Basically anyone who started an organization with that in the name was an in-over-their-head idealist or a grifter, with the latter camp being larger. If this, there is little doubt.

(People’s ability to grift off the topic of the moment is something to behold)

100%. There was even a case of a guy named Sir Major Page- who was a co-founder of a BLM foundation based in Atlanta with BLM in the name- who wound up getting arrested by the FBI for wire fraud and money laundering. I want to say he got caught stealing over $250k from that organization. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 06, 2022, 01:00:33 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 06, 2022, 09:53:33 AM

We don't need no education
We don't need no thought control
No dark sarcasm in the classroom
Teachers, leave them kids alone
Hey, teachers, leave those kids alone

My favorite band. ;) But not a song I really cared for. Probably because it was played too much. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2022, 04:17:42 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 06, 2022, 09:28:13 AM

😂😂😂😂.  How would you like me to show you the books that are being taught in elementary school which teach you that “white children sold their souls to the devil”. 
bullshit. 

Please do. Show us.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2022, 04:31:20 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 06, 2022, 08:27:56 AM

You realize don’t you that Governor DeSantis did not start or offer this legislation. I followed it closely since it began and it began as parents being extremely vocal about what they heard their kids were learning in school so they went to their local legislators who wrote the legislation and Governor DeSantis signed it. That’s not anecdotal that’s real life. It’s called the government actually working to solve the problems that the people feel are their problems

So as long as they push the button enough times and rile up enough dogs with their dog whistle to complain, they can pass laws about it?  I agree.

The CRT outrage is a joke.
Honestly, as a teacher, there's no need to teach CRT overtly.  You teach about a situation at a certain time, you cover that war, you cover this topic over here, etc.....and CRT is when the students connect the dots.  It doesn't require an agenda at all.
You teach them about slavery.
You teach them about all the stuff before it and after it.
You teach them about the Civil War (and before and after).
You teach them about the Civil Rights movement and before and after.

To exit a year of learning with the understanding that black people are screwed over and over at every turn is plain as day.  No one needs an ulterior motive to teach it.  No one needs to be a part of the BLM movement.  No one needs to teach anything that isn't already in their state standards. 

This is such an obvious bullshit "outraged Karen" topic that it's pathetic. 

As for the 1619 project, I think it's probably attempting to overcorrect for the years the above things weren't taught.  I look at it the same as a world map that has the Pacific Ocean in the center, with the Americas on the right.  I prefer that map, as it pertains to hominid evolution and the spread first of Homo Erectus and then Homo Sapiens.  But for some people to insist on using that map as the default isn't an outrage whether you like it or not.

Reviewing our country's history from the African-American perspective is interesting and likely beneficial for many.  The sudden leap that I see everyone seem to mention from a "reframing" to "white kids are told they're racist today" is nuts.  If that is a central tenet, then it's wrong and absurd.

Perhaps the point is actually that racism is so inherent and engrained in our society that the very people who are outraged by CRT or the 1619 project are blind to what is fueling their rage?  Maybe? 

Everyone I know who is in education on both sides of the political spectrum look at the CRT outrage either laugh or are dumbfounded.  It's fake news, even if a small, but loud contingent of Florida parents say otherwise.

Democrats might have bad ideas, but at least their leaders are genuine.  Republicans are being trolled by gaslighters.  I really am afraid it's true.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 06, 2022, 05:44:09 PM

CRT is not about teaching about historical events

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 06, 2022, 07:07:58 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 06, 2022, 11:24:02 AM

speaking of BLM....there might not be a bigger sham organization out there.

The Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation has received something like $90 million in donations since it's foundation- and it was just revealed that one of the founders has been living in a 7,400 sq ft mansion that the foundation bought in secret in 2020 for $6 million in LA.

There are all kinds of stories like this about misappropriations of money- basically fraud and embezzlement- from the founder and higher ups. The families of people like George Floyd and other martyrs of that movement have spoken out against them as well. They use these families and tragedies to generate income (donations) and give the families and victims basically nothing.

this headline popped up on my phone's google feed this morning
I didn't click on it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2022, 07:09:00 PM

But it is - because it's all connected.  If black people were never enslaved here, their current standing would be much better.  Is that not a given?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 06, 2022, 07:11:05 PM

this one did as well.

I did click on it............

https://www.floridatoday.com/story/opinion/2022/03/25/dont-let-select-few-adults-decide-what-children-may-read-opinion/7159670001/ (https://www.floridatoday.com/story/opinion/2022/03/25/dont-let-select-few-adults-decide-what-children-may-read-opinion/7159670001/)

These are all things that people come in contact with in day-to-day life. They are the issues that kids, teens, and young adults are already discussing, and banning books will not keep those conversations from happening. Many of these are issues that they’re going to face eventually, in real life. Why do we need to shelter them unnecessarily?

Taking away books is taking away knowledge.

You’d better be careful with what you let kids read, because one day they might end up thinking for themselves.

Linda Tyndall, a former Brevard resident who now lives in New Mexico, is an artist, activist, and mother.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 06, 2022, 07:11:18 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2022, 07:09:00 PM

But it is - because it's all connected.  If black people were never enslaved here, their current standing would be much better.  Is that not a given?

That may be but that is not what CRT is all about

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 06, 2022, 07:12:54 PM

guess I haven't thought about it before, but did government entities have slaves back in that day?

such as city workers?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2022, 07:34:40 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 06, 2022, 07:11:18 PM

That may be but that is not what CRT is all about

Tell us all about it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 06, 2022, 08:22:14 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2022, 07:34:40 PM

Tell us all about it. 

https://americarenewing.com/issues/top-10-worst-examples/

https://www.thecollegefix.com/yes-crt-is-taught-in-k-12-schools-heres-how/

https://www.maciverinstitute.com/2021/05/critical-race-theory-in-wisconsin-k12-education/

https://abcnews.go.com/US/critical-race-theory-classroom-understanding-debate/story?id=77627465

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 06, 2022, 08:25:42 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2022, 04:17:42 PM

Please do. Show us.

Here you go dipstick 

https://thetruedefender.com/school-districts-use-book-that-claims-whiteness-is-the-devil-white-kids-sell-their-souls-for-stolen-land-and-stolen-riches/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 06, 2022, 08:43:20 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2022, 04:31:20 PM

So as long as they push the button enough times and rile up enough dogs with their dog whistle to complain, they can pass laws about it?  I agree.

The CRT outrage is a joke.
Honestly, as a teacher, there's no need to teach CRT overtly.  You teach about a situation at a certain time, you cover that war, you cover this topic over here, etc.....and CRT is when the students connect the dots.  It doesn't require an agenda at all.
You teach them about slavery.
You teach them about all the stuff before it and after it.
You teach them about the Civil War (and before and after).
You teach them about the Civil Rights movement and before and after.

To exit a year of learning with the understanding that black people are screwed over and over at every turn is plain as day.  No one needs an ulterior motive to teach it.  No one needs to be a part of the BLM movement.  No one needs to teach anything that isn't already in their state standards. 

This is such an obvious bullshit "outraged Karen" topic that it's pathetic. 

As for the 1619 project, I think it's probably attempting to overcorrect for the years the above things weren't taught.  I look at it the same as a world map that has the Pacific Ocean in the center, with the Americas on the right.  I prefer that map, as it pertains to hominid evolution and the spread first of Homo Erectus and then Homo Sapiens.  But for some people to insist on using that map as the default isn't an outrage whether you like it or not.

Reviewing our country's history from the African-American perspective is interesting and likely beneficial for many.  The sudden leap that I see everyone seem to mention from a "reframing" to "white kids are told they're racist today" is nuts.  If that is a central tenet, then it's wrong and absurd.

Perhaps the point is actually that racism is so inherent and engrained in our society that the very people who are outraged by CRT or the 1619 project are blind to what is fueling their rage?  Maybe? 

Everyone I know who is in education on both sides of the political spectrum look at the CRT outrage either laugh or are dumbfounded.  It's fake news, even if a small, but loud contingent of Florida parents say otherwise.

Democrats might have bad ideas, but at least their leaders are genuine.  Republicans are being trolled by gaslighters.  I really am afraid it's true.

Yes. White privilege training in America is not real.  Teaching black kids to feel victimized and white kids to feel guilty isn’t real.

neither is Antifa. 😂.  Moronic take. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 06, 2022, 08:48:11 PM

Fro-

You have said some incredibly stupid things related to our world- but you out did yourself today.  The Dems are “ genuine”.  

Omg.    😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2022, 09:39:44 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 06, 2022, 08:22:14 PM

https://americarenewing.com/issues/top-10-worst-examples/

https://www.thecollegefix.com/yes-crt-is-taught-in-k-12-schools-heres-how/

https://www.maciverinstitute.com/2021/05/critical-race-theory-in-wisconsin-k12-education/

https://abcnews.go.com/US/critical-race-theory-classroom-understanding-debate/story?id=77627465

No, I asked YOU to tell us.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2022, 09:43:12 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 06, 2022, 08:25:42 PM

Here you go dipstick

https://thetruedefender.com/school-districts-use-book-that-claims-whiteness-is-the-devil-white-kids-sell-their-souls-for-stolen-land-and-stolen-riches/

That book looks like an idiotic, panicky response by a radical leftist.

The article is nearly useless, though.  The number of school districts and states is always different (3 mentions).  None of the districts or states are listed.  Whatever the "largest teacher union" is that somehow has the power to spread it to all 50 states is bizarre and, of course, unnamed.

Thank you for linking it, though.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2022, 09:44:06 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 06, 2022, 08:43:20 PM

Yes. White privilege training in America is not real.  Teaching black kids to feel victimized and white kids to feel guilty isn’t real.

neither is Antifa. 😂.  Moronic take. 

What's with your obsession about antifa and suggesting I ever said it doesn't exist?

I'd like to have a back-and-forth without the random-ass obsessions you seem to carry from out of left field.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 06, 2022, 11:02:25 PM

CDC announces sweeping agency review

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/3259264-cdc-announces-sweeping-agency-review/ (https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/3259264-cdc-announces-sweeping-agency-review/)

Probably too political for the COVID thread

according to utee94

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 07, 2022, 12:12:34 AM

You buncha jackwagons ruined the corona thread, I haven't bothered with trying to clean it up in months.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 07, 2022, 12:42:46 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 07, 2022, 12:12:34 AM

You buncha jackwagons ruined the corona thread, I haven't bothered with trying to clean it up in months.

theres a corona thread?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 07, 2022, 06:34:25 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2022, 04:31:20 PM

Democrats might have bad ideas, but at least their leaders are genuine.

Genuinely bad, sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 07, 2022, 06:37:35 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2022, 07:09:00 PM

But it is - because it's all connected.  If black people were never enslaved here, their current standing would be much better.  Is that not a given?

You know what I wish?

I wish the rich black people never offered to sell their own people, and I wish the rich white people never took them up on it.

Things would look so much different today.

Is that not a given?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 07, 2022, 09:16:59 AM

"Common Sense is not so common." - Voltaire, from Dictionnaire Philosophique (1764) ‘Sens Commun’.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 07, 2022, 12:53:22 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 07, 2022, 06:37:35 AM

You know what I wish?

I wish the rich black people never offered to sell their own people, and I wish the rich white people never took them up on it.

Things would look so much different today.

Is that not a given?

Oh, this is just gonna get weirder. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 07, 2022, 01:22:03 PM

How so? 

It's just a wish that something completely true never happened.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 07, 2022, 01:38:54 PM

The largest slave owner in the area I currently live was in New Bern NC... he was a black man.  

ImHo we don't have race issues.. we have culture issues.  And we have a lot of them.  

However. I can drive down the road and have reasonable expectation everyone driving around me will conform to a standard expectation.  I can fly to despair places in this nation and have the same reasonable expectation... so... I know we can find some solution that can become second nature just like driving.. I just ain't got a clue how we arrange that.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2022, 01:45:08 PM

Back in Cincy feels like winter

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 07, 2022, 06:26:26 PM

Fro is just salty that we didn't all properly introduce ourselves to him or her by first exchanging our preferred pronouns. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2022, 06:46:32 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 07, 2022, 06:26:26 PM

Fro is just salty that we didn't all properly introduce ourselves to him or her by first exchanging our preferred pronouns.

I'm sorry that I'm not the caricature you imagine me to be.  It's weird to watch someone beat a dead horse that isn't actually there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2022, 06:50:44 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 07, 2022, 06:37:35 AM

You know what I wish?

I wish the rich black people never offered to sell their own people, and I wish the rich white people never took them up on it.

Things would look so much different today.

Is that not a given?

This is pretty disgusting.

Does this fact make anything better? 
.
Hey, these people are selling humans you can enslave! 
What?  Well yeah, I'm going to buy some!
Unethical?  But it's FREE labor!
I mean they're selling them, I don't want to be rude.  They need to feed their families.
I got a great deal!  They only have wicker shields and wooden weapons!  I paid what I wanted!
Yeah, yeah, exactly!  All I had to do was threaten to take them all, and they turned on each other!
It was hilarious!
.
Occupation:  slave-owner
Conscience:  clear

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: EastAthens on April 07, 2022, 07:25:37 PM

Great day in Georgia... Masters opening day and World Champs opening day at Truist.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 07, 2022, 09:08:39 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2022, 06:50:44 PM

This is pretty disgusting.

Does this fact make anything better? 
.
Hey, these people are selling humans you can enslave! 
What?  Well yeah, I'm going to buy some!
Unethical?  But it's FREE labor!
I mean they're selling them, I don't want to be rude.  They need to feed their families.
I got a great deal!  They only have wicker shields and wooden weapons!  I paid what I wanted!
Yeah, yeah, exactly!  All I had to do was threaten to take them all, and they turned on each other!
It was hilarious!
.
Occupation:  slave-owner
Conscience:  clear

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5aZJBLAu1E

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 07, 2022, 11:41:01 PM

Optics. 

The printing press, early 1800s, brought enlightenment to the masses who relied on the information provided by those controlling them readily.  The industrial revolution allowed for a middle class to evolve- going to work and earning instead of relying on cultivation and herding and the intense labor of that.  People had time to read, a widely available skill on the heels of the printing press, and they read the founding documents of this nation.  They realized they could govern themselves.  

Those serendipitous events kept this nation from falling back under the crown, which was something the rulers of this planet fully expected, else they'd have kicked our asses thoroughly instead of pretty much allowing us to leave.  

As we got smarter and as we informed ourselves, led ourselves, and under the free markets available here for anyone with the gumption, it was discovered the cost of owning slaves was not near as smart as paying wages, however small, and allowing people to receive reward based on effort.  

That caused its own problems- the company store- another form of slavery.  The robber barons... it took targeting by the feds to shut that down when the IRS came to be in the 20th century.  It was supposed that kind of wealth would never be amassed here again.  

That plan was blindsided by the tech revolution. 

The powers- the crown(s) and the west indies trading company, as examples, positioned themselves to regain their power believing the US would fail in the early 1800s.  They'd no way to anticipate the collision of events that stopped that from happening.  They've been positioning since.  They own media and communications and most governments. 

Our, if there is an our, opposition isn't each other and it isn't based on race.  The pitting of whatever fraction of people's against each other serves the elite- the generational wealth that couldn't be poor if they tried... the same families that have held the wealth for generations upon generations.  

Slavery was on them.  It was instituted and driven by them.  It was necessary in the world at the time and that is painful to hear as it is to say.  People willingly entered into slavery under different titles as a means to escape- they were cared for.  Some were entered into slavery as tribes settled beefs with other tribes and sold their rivals to the trading companies.   That is not good.  But that is what happened.  

Viewing what was from hindsight and the vantage of today is narrow minded and indicative of someone who's been brainwashed by those intent to control us and own everything.  This "great reset" isn't a new idea.  "You'll own nothing and be happy about it".. the progressives under Wilson tried it and were shut down.  Hitler tried it.  Marx romanticized it.  Stalin and others on and on attempted.  None of them have the toys available today, and it's being ran on "us" yet again, but people are so tied up with hating rivals- tribalism- they don't notice.  

Tell me where I'm wrong. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 08, 2022, 12:33:33 AM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 07, 2022, 11:41:01 PM

 People willingly entered into slavery under different titles as a means to escape- they were cared for.  Some were entered into slavery as tribes settled beefs with other tribes and sold their rivals to the trading companies.  That is not good.  But that is what happened. 

What does this mean?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 08, 2022, 02:14:33 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2022, 06:46:32 PM

I'm sorry that I'm not the caricature you imagine me to be.  It's weird to watch someone beat a dead horse that isn't actually there.

Oh please.

Y'all take your child-grooming very seriously. 


https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/1512204379352408069?s=20&t=8UNpwo60E5F8JhurSGJYGA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 08, 2022, 03:12:02 AM

I'm not a democrat.
I don't live in New Jersey.
I have literally nothing to do with it.  
.
But by all means, carry on with your fictional straw man named OAM.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 08, 2022, 06:55:40 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 08, 2022, 02:14:33 AM

Oh please.

Y'all take your child-grooming very seriously.


https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/1512204379352408069?s=20&t=8UNpwo60E5F8JhurSGJYGA

 But….but….it’s a dog whistle.   😂😂😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 08, 2022, 07:41:46 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 08, 2022, 03:12:02 AM

I'm not a democrat.
I don't live in New Jersey.
I have literally nothing to do with it. 
.
But by all means, carry on with your fictional straw man named OAM.

You are a teacher, and you enjoy indoctrinating them with your creepy white guilt nonsense as young as possible; where you parrot the left's rhetoric like a GD pull string dummy. So I have no doubt that you also support teaching homosexuality and transgender propaganda from Kindergarten on up. It's what you are; a creep who likes to indoctrinate everyone else's children in your leftist dogma, since you don't have any children of your own (Thank God). 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 08, 2022, 07:42:50 AM

No need to attack guys. Let's be civil.

In other news...


Walmart Dangles $110,000 Starting Pay to Lure Truck Drivers - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/walmart-raises-pay-to-attract-truck-drivers-11649336400?mod=djem10point)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on April 08, 2022, 08:55:12 AM

President Biden increases defense spending by 5%?

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/biden-authorizes-768-2-billion-in-defense-spending-a-5-increase (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/biden-authorizes-768-2-billion-in-defense-spending-a-5-increase)

Before you get a warm fuzzy let me point out that with inflation it's like a 3% cut to the defense budget.  Maybe more if prices keep going up.

Also, President Biden cuts Navy program for submarine launched tactical nuke cruise missiles.  Good thing we live in a safe cozy world.

https://breakingdefense.com/2022/03/biden-administration-kills-trump-era-nuclear-cruise-missile-program/ (https://breakingdefense.com/2022/03/biden-administration-kills-trump-era-nuclear-cruise-missile-program/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 08, 2022, 09:24:31 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 08, 2022, 12:33:33 AM

What does this mean?

Endentured Servatude.  People could enter, make passage to new world,  and work it off.  

The forced slavery is the more discussed version, and there is no way to make it appear like anything but.  

When I said "cared for" I could have chosen better words.  Their basic needs were provided.  Like that of a horse, or other beast of burden.  They were an investment and it was NOT every Tom, Dick, or Harry who owned a slave... it was the elite.  The vast population never owned anyone else.  The vast population raced here to the US as fast as they could, though, as they had opportunity here where it was impossible from where they came---- and it didn't matter where that origin was. 

All this is a matter of optics.  I'm offering mine. 

The industry of the day, agriculture, required labor.  The elite purchased slaves to do it.  That was cheaper than paying peons.  Those few drivers of industry- the same that made ot almost impossible for small operations to exist- is where the guilt resides... and, ypu can trace current flourishing industries back to the roots of those same people.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 08, 2022, 01:19:07 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2022, 04:31:20 PM

Democrats might have bad ideas, but at least their leaders are genuine.

this statement could not possibly be further from truth. Democrats are more phony than Republicans. As far as corruption goes- probably the same- both sides are incredibly corrupt- Democrats maybe more- but without a doubt Democrats are fake as f**k. At least with the Republicans- you know they're genuinely assholes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 08, 2022, 01:23:41 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 08, 2022, 01:19:07 PM

this statement could not possibly be further from truth. Democrats are more phony than Republicans. As far as corruption goes- probably the same- both sides are incredibly corrupt- Democrats maybe more- but without a doubt Democrats are fake as f**k. At least with the Republicans- you know they're genuinely assholes.

Yeah I have to agree with this.  Republicans are a known assholic quantity.  Democrats are just as assholic but try to hide it behind phoniness and fakery.  In most cases I choose not to vote for either.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 08, 2022, 01:33:54 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 07, 2022, 12:53:22 PM

Oh, this is just gonna get weirder.

I think he is just referring to the fact that slavery has been a part of humanity since the dawn of time. The US did not invent or create slavery. And the British are the ones who brought slavery to their North American colonies that would ultimately wind up becoming the United States. And where do you think those slaves came from? They came from African kings, warlords, and tribal leaders who conquered and enslaved other African tribes and sold those people they conquered to the Europeans for gold and silver. 

Obviously slavery is incredibly f**ked up and just wrong on every level, but to act like it's every white persons fault- c'mon now. Don't bullshit a bullshitter. My ancestors didn't come to this country until many years after slavery ended. How am I responsible for that? Oh yeah, I'm not. And why does the entire world seem to let every African warlod and king who made deals with the European powers of the day to sell African slaves to European countries off the hook? Can't have the slave trade with no slaves. Who the hell you think was supplying Europe with all the slaves?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 08, 2022, 01:48:01 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 08, 2022, 01:23:41 PM

Yeah I have to agree with this.  Republicans are a known assholic quantity.  

HA! THat should be added to the new Urban Dictionary - you get a Yuengling

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 08, 2022, 03:04:09 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 08, 2022, 01:48:01 PM

HA! THat should be added to the new Urban Dictionary - you get a Yuengling

he's got a lot of great variations on swear words. dickface and assholic - never heard them before but will now be using them. the man has a true gift.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 08, 2022, 04:02:20 PM

HA!

My i s c & a aggie wife might disagree, but I am what I am.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 08, 2022, 04:02:52 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 08, 2022, 01:48:01 PM

HA! THat should be added to the new Urban Dictionary - you get a Yuengling

We finally have Yeungling down here.  It's tasty.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 08, 2022, 04:21:35 PM

https://thehill.com/policy/equilibrium-sustainability/3258744-baltics-cut-off-russian-gas-but-germany-eu-face-struggle/?fbclid=IwAR2b1CYvGylxYV0tWCxI055I8Wfulbq-9N8DvkVV1hOBZD5j0DFlpFxg8Yg

Lithuania will be importing LNG.

Quote from: utee94 on April 08, 2022, 04:02:52 PM

We finally have Yeungling down here.  It's tasty.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 08, 2022, 04:22:19 PM

Instead of building NS2 Germany could have built LNG terminals.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 08, 2022, 05:01:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 08, 2022, 04:22:19 PM

Instead of building NS2 Germany could have built LNG terminals.

Germany didn't pay for NordStream 2. Russian state owned Gazprom paid for 50% of it, and the other 50% was financed by Royal Dutch Shell and a few other European utility/energy companies- only one of which was a German entity- Uniper.

Unless the German government was going to mandate LNG terminals need to be built and pay for the construction and build them themselves or partner with private entities and put up significant portions of the money to build them or give any of the companies that build them massive tax breaks and incentives- no private company was just going to build them on their own. It's not cost effective- and that's how private companies, you know operate. Is this venture cost effective and will I see return on my investment.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 08, 2022, 05:11:23 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 08, 2022, 04:21:35 PM

https://thehill.com/policy/equilibrium-sustainability/3258744-baltics-cut-off-russian-gas-but-germany-eu-face-struggle/?fbclid=IwAR2b1CYvGylxYV0tWCxI055I8Wfulbq-9N8DvkVV1hOBZD5j0DFlpFxg8Yg

Lithuania will be importing LNG.

wow...a nation with a population less than the city of Chicago and a GDP that isn't even up to snuff with the US state of Alaska (3rd least populated state in US btw).......that'll hurt 'em!

Won't even make a dent in Russia's bottom line. Germany and Italy and the other major industrialized nations of Europe cutting off Russian oil and gas are what will actually matter. Not poor little worthless nothing countries like Lithuania, Estonia, or Latvia.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 08, 2022, 06:41:58 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 08, 2022, 07:41:46 AM

You are a teacher, and you enjoy indoctrinating them with your creepy white guilt nonsense as young as possible; where you parrot the left's rhetoric like a GD pull string dummy. So I have no doubt that you also support teaching homosexuality and transgender propaganda from Kindergarten on up. It's what you are; a creep who likes to indoctrinate everyone else's children in your leftist dogma, since you don't have any children of your own (Thank God).

You sure do know a lot about me for not knowing anything about me.

You're not very good at this.  I'm not "the left."  I haven't indoctrinated anyone about anything.  To be honest, much of what I do is combat what happens to my students at home.  
Shitty/negligent parenting.  Toxic older siblings.  Hot cheetohs and Monster energy drink for dinner.  

I don't have time to pretend to be your straw man, asshole.  I'm busy doing actual work.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 09, 2022, 11:17:22 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XI4tDCmevQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 09, 2022, 04:44:34 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/new-jersey-second-graders-learn-gender-identity-alarming-parents


Curious Fro,

(More proof that your obviously false narrative - that this crap isn’t really happening when whole states require it)

Given that- which state has it right? New Jersey, where it mandatory and written into the school learning plans, or Florida with the legislation just passed that says you’re not allowed to talk to you kindergartners through third graders about their genitals?

Would love to hear your opinion

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 09, 2022, 08:38:00 PM

Let's see, you want me to choose one extreme or the other....hmmm...tough one.

How about neither?

I see no reason for schools to teach about this at a young age AND I see no reason to make a law to ban it. 

I am certain that some kids deal with gender confusion at ages that young, but I don't think an academic lesson about it will help much.  If a kid "feels different," then they'll spend the next few years learning about themselves and the society around them, putting together pieces like a puzzle until they "discover" how they are or who they are and how that fits in with those around them.

The furthest I'd go with younger elementary if this topic came up would be to suggest it's okay with any kid to play with any toy.  Younger elementary students already have strong gender roles taught to them - so much so that if a male teacher wore something pink, they say, "but you're not a girl!"  I don't think that's good or bad, but it's inaccurate - females wear pink much more often than males do, but it says nothing about a male for him to wear pink.  Same with other gender-influenced things like a woman engineer or a guy teaching kindergarten. If a boy shares he plays with a Barbie, great, have fun with your doll and let's move on.  If a girl has 20 Hot Wheels cars at home, thanks, great share, let's move on.

It's useful that young children recognize the trends - it helps them navigate the world.  But they're not developmentally ready for all the exceptions or specifics, nor do they need to be, yet.

Florida is trying to pick one specific poor choice and making a law against it.  It's like making a law against getting engaged to an emotionally-abusive person or making a law against going to McDonalds twice in one day.  That's not a wise way to legislate.  Honestly, independent of any of the ethics of the bill, it's simply a poor way to govern. 

If you don't want teachers talking about this stuff, then parents need to.  If you don't want teachers talking about this stuff, tell them not to.  Tell them to send individual students who bring it up to the school counselor, who is trained.  This topic is so overblown because YES, the far-left is shoving it in everyone's eye AND the far-right is deathly afraid of all their kids "turning" gay.  It's absurd on both ends.

The far-left people are trying to legislate inclusion for every child out of a million so that none of them ever feels a moment of badness and the far-right is tryin to legislate away other adults doing their jobs for them when it comes to parenting.  Both can make sense in a vacuum, but the last time I checked, none of us lives in a vacuum.

All that being said, independent of party affiliation, the topic as a whole is not the most important thing.  If a kid has 2 dads and another kid doesn't get it, fine.  Uncertainty is not a problem when you're 7 years old.  It's called being 7 years old.  If a teacher is (in your eyes, for whatever reason) intricately describing genitals and whatever the hell your mind creepily invents, that teacher should be penalized or let go. 

Neither radical side is right.....neither radical side is ever right.
.
But please, PLEASE go on about how I'm one of the bad ones.  Ass hat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 09, 2022, 09:21:43 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 09, 2022, 08:38:00 PM

Let's see, you want me to choose one extreme or the other....hmmm...tough one.

How about neither?

I see no reason for schools to teach about this at a young age AND I see no reason to make a law to ban it. 

I am certain that some kids deal with gender confusion at ages that young, but I don't think an academic lesson about it will help much.  If a kid "feels different," then they'll spend the next few years learning about themselves and the society around them, putting together pieces like a puzzle until they "discover" how they are or who they are and how that fits in with those around them.

The furthest I'd go with younger elementary if this topic came up would be to suggest it's okay with any kid to play with any toy.  Younger elementary students already have strong gender roles taught to them - so much so that if a male teacher wore something pink, they say, "but you're not a girl!"  I don't think that's good or bad, but it's inaccurate - females wear pink much more often than males do, but it says nothing about a male for him to wear pink.  Same with other gender-influenced things like a woman engineer or a guy teaching kindergarten. If a boy shares he plays with a Barbie, great, have fun with your doll and let's move on.  If a girl has 20 Hot Wheels cars at home, thanks, great share, let's move on.

It's useful that young children recognize the trends - it helps them navigate the world.  But they're not developmentally ready for all the exceptions or specifics, nor do they need to be, yet.

Florida is trying to pick one specific poor choice and making a law against it.  It's like making a law against getting engaged to an emotionally-abusive person or making a law against going to McDonalds twice in one day.  That's not a wise way to legislate.  Honestly, independent of any of the ethics of the bill, it's simply a poor way to govern. 

If you don't want teachers talking about this stuff, then parents need to.  If you don't want teachers talking about this stuff, tell them not to.  Tell them to send individual students who bring it up to the school counselor, who is trained.  This topic is so overblown because YES, the far-left is shoving it in everyone's eye AND the far-right is deathly afraid of all their kids "turning" gay.  It's absurd on both ends.

The far-left people are trying to legislate inclusion for every child out of a million so that none of them ever feels a moment of badness and the far-right is tryin to legislate away other adults doing their jobs for them when it comes to parenting.  Both can make sense in a vacuum, but the last time I checked, none of us lives in a vacuum.

All that being said, independent of party affiliation, the topic as a whole is not the most important thing.  If a kid has 2 dads and another kid doesn't get it, fine.  Uncertainty is not a problem when you're 7 years old.  It's called being 7 years old.  If a teacher is (in your eyes, for whatever reason) intricately describing genitals and whatever the hell your mind creepily invents, that teacher should be penalized or let go. 

Neither radical side is right.....neither radical side is ever right.
.
But please, PLEASE go on about how I'm one of the bad ones.  Ass hat.

while I do agree with some of this answer and I don’t agree with other parts, I very much appreciate the thought process. It is a well written answer to a serious question.

Thank you for taking the time to answer. Your opinion on this is not nearly as far apart from mine as I had though it to be- or as you might think.

As for the “ asshat” part - yeah, sometimes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 09, 2022, 11:04:36 PM

The Florida law thing is interesting, separate from the hyped up questions of and rhetoric about its aims, in that it is phenomenally un-nuanced and built in that now-popular private action framework. 

It does little (almost nothing) to lay out particularly clear ground rules, in essence just throwing it on the court system to craft the framework. I suppose a lot of laws do this to a degree, but this one does it to an impressive degree. 

And because it's built on private action (litigious parents and someone who might choose to back them financially), it creates a sort of uneven enforcement. Even if experts are oft-bad, they're at least clear-eyed. The mechanism is the courts, which means the punishment is often the process (I can't recall if districts are on the hook as well, which more just creates pressure from the top). 

For much of the laments about this, the law addresses neither genitals or really sex ed at all. The phrases in question are "Classroom instruction" "sexual orientation" "gender identity" "age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate" and "state standards." None of these are defined, and are in essence left to the courts to shape as teachers and schools get sued. For what exactly? We'll find out. 

If you're not cynical, you probably would read it as a failure of legislature to craft a law that's comprehensive and precise. The cynics say the aim it to use that broad language to chill a wide variety of speech for fear of lawsuits (the example might be if a child has two dads, and another child asks "why doesn't he have a mom?" Can a teacher answer that? Or is it "Classroom instruction" about "sexual orientation" that's not "age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate"? The only way we'll find out is teachers and schools getting sued). 

If one must pass a law, at the least, a more precise one would be highly beneficial. On a personal level, I'm pretty uncomfortable flooding the zone with the widest spectrum of gender theories or orientation (it's a lot for an adult ). It also creates a weird distinction in that schools do and long have taught plenty about "sexual orientation" and "gender identity" in the broad definition or the phrase.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 10, 2022, 12:35:44 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 09, 2022, 11:04:36 PM

The Florida law thing is interesting, separate from the hyped up questions of and rhetoric about its aims, in that it is phenomenally un-nuanced and built in that now-popular private action framework.

It does little (almost nothing) to lay out particularly clear ground rules, in essence just throwing it on the court system to craft the framework. I suppose a lot of laws do this to a degree, but this one does it to an impressive degree.

And because it's built on private action (litigious parents and someone who might choose to back them financially), it creates a sort of uneven enforcement. Even if experts are oft-bad, they're at least clear-eyed. The mechanism is the courts, which means the punishment is often the process (I can't recall if districts are on the hook as well, which more just creates pressure from the top).

For much of the laments about this, the law addresses neither genitals or really sex ed at all. The phrases in question are "Classroom instruction" "sexual orientation" "gender identity" "age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate" and "state standards." None of these are defined, and are in essence left to the courts to shape as teachers and schools get sued. For what exactly? We'll find out.

If you're not cynical, you probably would read it as a failure of legislature to craft a law that's comprehensive and precise. The cynics say the aim it to use that broad language to chill a wide variety of speech for fear of lawsuits (the example might be if a child has two dads, and another child asks "why doesn't he have a mom?" Can a teacher answer that? Or is it "Classroom instruction" about "sexual orientation" that's not "age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate"? The only way we'll find out is teachers and schools getting sued).

If one must pass a law, at the least, a more precise one would be highly beneficial. On a personal level, I'm pretty uncomfortable flooding the zone with the widest spectrum of gender theories or orientation (it's a lot for an adult ). It also creates a weird distinction in that schools do and long have taught plenty about "sexual orientation" and "gender identity" in the broad definition or the phrase.

Might need to give the Florida law makers a little slack in that who in their right mind would have ever thought it necessary to have a law against elementary school teachers examining a childs genitals or discussing with a child if they may be trans gender.

Its sad that this law is needed.

This is new ground and there will be additional laws if needed to improve this one.

I dont agree with you that elementary schools have a long record of teaching sexual orientation and gender identity.  At least no elementary school around here does.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 10, 2022, 01:04:38 AM

love this.......:043:


https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1512966135423066116?s=20&t=cAOhu9qauwR1EZFk5NE3HQ

Here's to hoping Musk goes all Carl Icahn over there and f**king murders the entire board. GOD I hope he just shoves it up their ass, seeing as that company is located in San Fransisco though too many of them who work for that company might like having things shoved up their asses and all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 10, 2022, 09:35:51 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 10, 2022, 12:35:44 AM

Might need to give the Florida law makers a little slack in that who in their right mind would have ever thought it necessary to have a law against elementary school teachers examining a childs genitals or discussing with a child if they may be trans gender.

...

I dont agree with you that elementary schools have a long record of teaching sexual orientation and gender identity.  At least no elementary school around here does.

So. A few things.

- This law says nothing about examining genitals (which is already illegal). 
- The law actually doesn't explicitly say a teacher can't have that discussion, though the parent would have to be alerted soon after.
-If your schools are not teaching about sexual orientation and gender identity, they must be very progressive indeed. I feel like when I was in school, we were often told what boys do or are interested in vs what girls do or are interested in. And it was made pretty clear that men and women marry, sleep in the same bed as adults and have kids. If Texas schools have removed those things for the flow of K-3 lessons, that's quite a thing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 10, 2022, 10:06:51 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 10, 2022, 09:35:51 AM

So. A few things.

- This law says nothing about examining genitals (which is already illegal).
- The law actually doesn't explicitly say a teacher can't have that discussion, though the parent would have to be alerted soon after.
-If your schools are not teaching about sexual orientation and gender identity, they must be very progressive indeed. I feel like when I was in school, we were often told what boys do or are interested in vs what girls do or are interested in. And it was made pretty clear that men and women marry, sleep in the same bed as adults and have kids. If Texas schools have removed those things for the flow of K-3 lessons, that's quite a thing.

The discussion would have to be initiated by the student and yes the parents would need to be notified

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 10, 2022, 11:44:27 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 10, 2022, 12:35:44 AM

Might need to give the Florida law makers a little slack in that who in their right mind would have ever thought it necessary to have a law against elementary school teachers examining a childs genitals or discussing with a child if they may be trans gender.

Its sad that this law is needed.

This is new ground and there will be additional laws if needed to improve this one.

I dont agree with you that elementary schools have a long record of teaching sexual orientation and gender identity.  At least no elementary school around here does.

Yeah, throughout most of human history teaching this sort of thing to children would get you locked in a rubber room, before they discard the key. Now all of a sudden if you object to prepubescent children being indoctrinated with LGBT propaganda it is you who is being fit for the straight jacket. But always remember, "There is no slippery slope." 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 10, 2022, 01:28:46 PM

a lot of states are working to pass a similar law including Texas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 10, 2022, 04:14:19 PM

Rs want less government.....unless it's about gay people or transgender.  
Then they suddenly want to legislate what people can SAY.
.
I fully stand behind my belief that a majority of Rs literally don't know what the word "hypocrite" means.  Not a joke, not a cheapshot - I genuinely believe it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 10, 2022, 04:26:09 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 10, 2022, 01:28:46 PM

a lot of states are working to pass a similar law including Texas

Hopefully LA will ban their officials from taking paid vacations to those states on the tax payers dime as well. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 10, 2022, 04:28:54 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 10, 2022, 04:14:19 PM

Rs want less government.....unless it's about gay people or transgender. 
Then they suddenly want to legislate what people can SAY.
.
I fully stand behind my belief that a majority of Rs literally don't know what the word "hypocrite" means.  Not a joke, not a cheapshot - I genuinely believe it. 

Yes, it is definitely the right that is most likely to legislate manners, while legislating "hate speech" and thought crimes. 

What was it that you were saying about not knowing the definition of the word hypocrisy? Do you have even a modicum of self awareness? These questions are rhetorical of course, we already know the answer. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 10, 2022, 04:37:23 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 10, 2022, 04:14:19 PM

Rs want less government.....unless it's about gay people or transgender. 
Then they suddenly want to legislate what people can SAY.
.
I fully stand behind my belief that a majority of Rs literally don't know what the word "hypocrite" means.  Not a joke, not a cheapshot - I genuinely believe it. 

not sure what you are referring to

nobody is legislating what people can say

please enlighten us

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 10, 2022, 04:44:59 PM

He doesn't think that people should enact laws that prevent him from indoctrinating their children with his creepy, twisted ideology. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 10, 2022, 04:52:08 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 10, 2022, 01:28:46 PM

a lot of states are working to pass a similar law including Texas

They are. It’s good politics. It makes the voters who vote for them feel good. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 10, 2022, 04:59:35 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 10, 2022, 04:14:19 PM

Rs want less government.....unless it's about gay people or transgender. 
Then they suddenly want to legislate what people can SAY.
.
I fully stand behind my belief that a majority of Rs literally don't know what the word "hypocrite" means.  Not a joke, not a cheapshot - I genuinely believe it. 

yeah, great argument there....except for the fact that public school teachers work for the GOVERNMENT - and they have no free speech rights in the class room. Teachers don't have free speech rights as teachers inside the class room. This has been decided in court case after court case, period. They have free speech rights as private citizens in public life- but not in the classroom- as EMPLOYEES of the government.

The government telling the government to sh**t the f**k up about sexuality and gender in public schools for children in Preschool to 3rd grade is not more government in peoples lives- it's LESS government in their lives. Duh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 10, 2022, 05:01:31 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 10, 2022, 04:52:08 PM

They are. It’s good politics. It makes the voters who vote for them feel good.

it also allows parents to be parents and school teachers to be teachers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 10, 2022, 05:10:38 PM

There are a lot of laws against what people "say" when what they "say" happens to be creepy sex talk aimed at other people's children. 

When the internet was new, there were no laws against "saying" sexual things to other people's children. But it quickly became a problem, so they made it illegal to "talk" about sex with minors on the internet. 

Now creepy White Leftists in the educational field teaching prepubescent children about homosexuality and transgender nonsense has become a problem all of a sudden. So these creeps need to be reigned in as well.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 10, 2022, 05:17:47 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 10, 2022, 05:01:31 PM

it also allows parents to be parents and school teachers to be teachers

yup.

and there are only two genders. period. men and women. and little kids inherently know this. and the science has been settled on this for....oh....ever. Male = XY chromosome, Female = XX chromosome. Are there variations on this? Yes, but those are extremely rare genetic defects of which most syndromes/cases have other serious complications (heart defects, bone structure, height, brain development, etc.) and almost all people born with said genetic defects are infertile. Any normal XY/XX people that want to chop their dicks or tits off, take loads of hormones, and "change genders" are just mentally unstable, clinically insane people that need psychiatric help. It's an outrage there are even "doctors" who perform those types of surgeries. It's a crime against humanity and they should have their licenses stripped and they should be thrown in jail.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 10, 2022, 08:43:17 PM

• Alabama advanced a measure (https://www.npr.org/2022/04/07/1091510026/alabama-gender-affirming-care-trans-transgender) prohibiting early classroom instruction on sexual and gender identity.
• An Arizona bill (https://apps.azleg.gov/billStatus/BillOverview/76263) aims to change the state's sex-ed curriculum to focus on biological sex and "not gender identities."
• In neighboring Georgia, lawmakers targeted private schools (https://www.legis.ga.gov/legislation/62663) — which the state can regulate. But  (https://www.google.com/search?q=WABE+don't+say+gay+georgia&ei=Cz5QYv8o59DK0w_VpIwY&ved=0ahUKEwi_2s21zoT3AhVnqHIEHVUSAwMQ4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=WABE+don't+say+gay+georgia&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EANKBAhBGABKBAhGGABQkgJYxARg6QZoAHAAeACAATKIAY8BkgEBM5gBAKABAcABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz)it failed to get any traction this year. (https://www.google.com/search?q=WABE+don't+say+gay+georgia&ei=Cz5QYv8o59DK0w_VpIwY&ved=0ahUKEwi_2s21zoT3AhVnqHIEHVUSAwMQ4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=WABE+don't+say+gay+georgia&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EANKBAhBGABKBAhGGABQkgJYxARg6QZoAHAAeACAATKIAY8BkgEBM5gBAKABAcABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz)
• In Iowa, a Senate proposal (https://www.legis.iowa.gov/legislation/BillBook?ga=89&ba=SF 2024) would require that parents opt in — in writing — to any instruction "relating to gender identity."
• In Louisiana, lawmakers introduced HB 837 (https://legis.la.gov/legis/ViewDocument.aspx?d=1260044). It would limit discussion of sexual orientation or gender identity (https://www.wwno.org/education/2022-03-18/louisiana-is-the-latest-state-to-file-its-own-dont-say-gay-bill-for-public-schools) in some grades and prohibit it all together in others. A South Carolina bill (https://www.scstatehouse.gov/billsearch.php?billnumbers=4605) is similar.
• A Missouri  (https://legiscan.com/MO/bill/HB1669/2022)bill would ban (https://legiscan.com/MO/bill/HB1669/2022) "gender or sexual diversity training" in public schools. An Indiana bill does the same (http://iga.in.gov/legislative/2022/bills/senate/415/#digest-heading). As would a Kentucky bill (https://legiscan.com/KY/text/HB14/2022).
• In Oklahoma, a senate bill would ban books from school libraries that focus on "the study of sex, sexual lifestyles, or sexual activity."
• Tennessee's HB 800 (https://www.tnep.org/tep_legislative_watch_2022) bans books and instructional materials "that promote, normalize, support, or address lesbian, gay, bi-sexual, or transgender issues or lifestyle."
• Ohio's HB616 (https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legislation/legislation-summary?id=GA134-HB-616) has similar language used in the Florida bill.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 10, 2022, 10:03:43 PM

It’s too bad this Florida law doesn’t address creepy sex stuff. Maybe they should pass another law that addresses that more than the laws that already do.

(That Louisiana one is wild and gonna have some weird fallow if it matches that quoted part of the bill)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 10, 2022, 10:36:02 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 10, 2022, 05:01:31 PM

it also allows parents to be parents and school teachers to be teachers

This makes me chuckle a little, only because the old trope was "How am I supposed to explain that to my kids?"

Now it's "Only I can explain that to my kids." 

How times change, indeed. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 10, 2022, 11:29:16 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 10, 2022, 04:28:54 PM

Yes, it is definitely the right that is most likely to legislate manners, while legislating "hate speech" and thought crimes.

What was it that you were saying about not knowing the definition of the word hypocrisy? Do you have even a modicum of self awareness? These questions are rhetorical of course, we already know the answer.

I'm dumbfounded.
My point was that Rs want less government, except...
You go on to make a point that Rs are not more likely to legislate speech, when we'd all agree that Dems are for more government.......soooooo (all together now), Dems being more likely to legislate speech is vapid and obvious.  It's not hypocritical. 
.
You're Exhibit A of my suspicion.  You don't know what hypocrisy is. 
I mean Jesus Christ, man.  The point is that 'the right' claim not to want gov't overreach, but they're doing it here. 
Going against their claims.
Not aligned with their supposed agenda.
Hypocrisy.
.
You are lost.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 10, 2022, 11:31:53 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 10, 2022, 10:03:43 PM

It’s too bad this Florida law doesn’t address creepy sex stuff. Maybe they should pass another law that addresses that more than the laws that already do.

(That Louisiana one is wild and gonna have some weird fallow if it matches that quoted part of the bill)

BB should write it, he's the only one obsessed with creepy sex talk.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 10, 2022, 11:33:04 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 10, 2022, 04:59:35 PM

yeah, great argument there....except for the fact that public school teachers work for the GOVERNMENT - and they have no free speech rights in the class room. Teachers don't have free speech rights as teachers inside the class room. 

Of course, but no one wants the government to tell them what they can and cannot say.  None of you would like it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 10, 2022, 11:46:46 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 10, 2022, 10:36:02 PM

This makes me chuckle a little, only because the old trope was "How am I supposed to explain that to my kids?"

Now it's "Only I can explain that to my kids."

How times change, indeed.

do you have children

if so did you want the school to raise them for you

Parents raise children 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 10, 2022, 11:50:51 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 10, 2022, 11:33:04 PM

Of course, but no one wants the government to tell them what they can and cannot say.  None of you would like it. 

this is the 2nd post where you say the new law keeps someone from saying something

what in hell are you talking about

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 11, 2022, 12:44:04 AM

Oh, the govt won't let creeps like fro talk about homosexuality to prepubescent children. It is an infringement on his first amendment rights, restricting both his speech and his freedom to practice his creepy political religion. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 11, 2022, 01:33:19 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 10, 2022, 11:46:46 PM

Parents raise children

I'd love for this to be true across the board.  It's not.  You know it's not.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 11, 2022, 01:34:20 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 11, 2022, 12:44:04 AM

Oh, the govt won't let creeps like fro talk about homosexuality to prepubescent children. It is an infringement on his first amendment rights, restricting both his speech and his freedom to practice his creepy political religion.

You read my view on the matter, acknowledged it wasn't far off from your own, and now you're back on the same trope.

Your disdain exceeds your mind.
I pity you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2022, 06:04:42 AM

This comes as not a surprise to me. Well, there is one surprise. CNN (et al.)  is not reporting on it.


California, New York handled COVID-19 lockdowns the worst, Florida among the best, a new study shows | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/california-new-york-covid-lockdowns-worst-florida-best-study)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2022, 06:12:18 AM

:86:

(https://i.imgur.com/FDel911.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 11, 2022, 09:15:02 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2022, 06:12:18 AM

:86:

(https://i.imgur.com/FDel911.png)

Lmao that’s funny cause it’s true. That is math racist bullsh*t started filtering out in 2019-2020 though, with articles in USA Today and The Atlantic and every other paper talking about it.

The useless worthless lying corrupt mainstream medias favorite f**face Bill Gates even donated $1 million to some bullsh*t book/study or whatever saying “math is racist”. Probably the only reason it was ever even reported on or talked about- seeing as that vile evil sniveling f**kface dweeb buys good pr and press via donations to major mainstream media companies. To the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 11, 2022, 09:15:40 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 11, 2022, 01:34:20 AM

You read my view on the matter, acknowledged it wasn't far off from your own, and now you're back on the same trope.

Your disdain exceeds your mind.
I pity you.

That was me that acknowledged we were not far apart- not Brutus.

So in my organization of over 1200 employees I am the executive sponsor for an employee support group for LGBTQ. It’s one of many that we have including African-Americans former military and women.

There’s a reason I do this and I will share a personal bit of why. My oldest brother has been openly gay for many many many years. He was at a high level, and on the front lines in the fight to make it legal for same-sex marriage. When that fight was win, I was the best man at his wedding.  I watched what he went through for all those years and gained a great appreciation for it.

The group I am an ally for has a purpose of making everyone feel comfortable in their own skin regardless, in the workplace. Not to be Marginalized or discriminated against.  I believe that is critically important and a basic human right. 
I also think the overwhelming majority fell this way.  Yes, even the “Rs” as you call them.  

Where the differences begin- for me- and others- us to the question of where fairness ends and indoctrination begins. 

Like you- I don’t believe we SHOULD have laws that require it, or ban it. 
But here we are.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2022, 09:40:09 AM

Great story HB.

I don't know about having a law or not having one, but seeing so many teachers protesting it tells me what I need to know.

Anyway, this is a dead horse and I really think we need to focus on solving other world issues now.

Everyone good with that?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2022, 09:51:51 AM

Biden nominates new ATF chief, announces slate of gun reforms (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-nominates-new-atf-chief-announces-slate-of-gun-reforms/ar-AAW5Aiz?li=BBnbfcQ&ocid=msedgntp)

Picked up 3 new guns last week. A nice shotgun, a new 9mm S&W pistol, and an AR kit that my son will build for me.

Pretty well-armed now in this house.

Going for concealed carry soon, with the wife.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 11, 2022, 10:15:06 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2022, 09:51:51 AM

Biden nominates new ATF chief, announces slate of gun reforms (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-nominates-new-atf-chief-announces-slate-of-gun-reforms/ar-AAW5Aiz?li=BBnbfcQ&ocid=msedgntp)

Picked up 3 new guns last week. A nice shotgun, a new 9mm S&W pistol, and an AR kit that my son will build for me.

Pretty well-armed now in this house.

Going for concealed carry soon, with the wife.

About 8 years ago I purchased a Glock 17 for home protection

Ive never had to use it as such but you just never know

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 11, 2022, 10:15:27 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2022, 09:51:51 AM

Biden nominates new ATF chief, announces slate of gun reforms (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-nominates-new-atf-chief-announces-slate-of-gun-reforms/ar-AAW5Aiz?li=BBnbfcQ&ocid=msedgntp)

Picked up 3 new guns last week. A nice shotgun, a new 9mm S&W pistol, and an AR kit that my son will build for me.

Pretty well-armed now in this house.

Going for concealed carry soon, with the wife.

I'm about to buy a new handgun for my i s c & a aggie wife.  Probably a G43,  based on Burney's learned suggestions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 11, 2022, 10:19:44 AM

I have my grandfather's M1911 and several Colt revolvers that he left me.  But I've been thinking I might get something a little smaller as well, for concealed carry.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 11, 2022, 10:37:05 AM

I have a Glock g43 as well.  Need one for the Mrs.   

Conceal and carry next.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 11, 2022, 10:40:26 AM

You used to need a conceal carry permit in Texas but that might have changed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 11, 2022, 10:53:00 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 11, 2022, 10:40:26 AM

You used to need a conceal carry permit in Texas but that might have changed

I think you still do. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 11, 2022, 11:48:17 AM

1. Guinness is a light beer, with fewer calories than most other beers including Budweiser and Coors. – Source (http://www.mensfitness.com/nutrition/what-to-drink/beers-calories-and-carbs)
2. German Beer was originally hallucinogenic, containing Henbane (an hallucinogenic herb), until adding Henbane to beer was banned in 1516. – Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyoscyamus_niger)
3. After the 18th Amendment (that established prohibition of alcoholic beverages) was repealed in 1933, Yuengling sent a truckload of “Winner Beer” to President Franklin D. Roosevelt in appreciation, which arrived the day the amendment was repealed. It is particularly notable since Yuengling beer takes almost three weeks to brew and age. – Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuengling#History)
4. Ex-Prime Minister of Australia Bob Hawke once held the world-speed record for beer drinking. In his memoirs, he suggested that this single feat may have contributed to his political success more than any other, by endearing him to a voting population with a strong beer culture. – Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Hawke#Early_life_and_education)
5. The “ice beer” is made by freezing beer and skimming off the ice crystals, thereby increasing the alcohol content – Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_beer)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 11, 2022, 12:12:37 PM

Ive accidentally made ice beer several times

Its an art knowing how long to leave beer in the freezer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 11, 2022, 12:37:25 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2022, 09:51:51 AM

Biden nominates new ATF chief, announces slate of gun reforms (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-nominates-new-atf-chief-announces-slate-of-gun-reforms/ar-AAW5Aiz?li=BBnbfcQ&ocid=msedgntp)

Picked up 3 new guns last week. A nice shotgun, a new 9mm S&W pistol, and an AR kit that my son will build for me.

Pretty well-armed now in this house.

Going for concealed carry soon, with the wife.

AR-15 I presume?

I was thinking over the weekend that I will begin an AR-10 build, probably .308 caliber. One of the nice things about the AR platforms is that you really don't need that many tools to build one yourself. They are pretty easy to assemble. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 11, 2022, 12:42:42 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 11, 2022, 10:15:27 AM

I'm about to buy a new handgun for my i s c & a aggie wife.  Probably a G43,  based on Burney's learned suggestions.

Smith and Wesson builds a version of the M&P specifically for women known as the EZ. I don't know exactly what the required lbs to operate the slide is compared to the normal M&P, but it is significantly different and much easier to rack. 

I'm not saying anything against the Glock as it is a nice gun, just that sometimes the amount of force required to rack some pistols is intimidating to some women.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 11, 2022, 12:45:42 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 11, 2022, 10:40:26 AM

You used to need a conceal carry permit in Texas but that might have changed

It goes away in Ohio in June I believe. However, I will maintain mine due to the reciprocity issues with other states. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 11, 2022, 12:59:12 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 11, 2022, 12:42:42 PM

Smith and Wesson builds a version of the M&P specifically for women known as the EZ. I don't know exactly what the required lbs to operate the slide is compared to the normal M&P, but it is significantly different and much easier to rack.

I'm not saying anything against the Glock as it is a nice gun, just that sometimes the amount of force required to rack some pistols is intimidating to some women.

The EZ is a great weapon for ladies... the slide is super easy to charge.  I think there may be a 9mm now, bit when I had one it was a 380.  

I carry a sig365 everyday everywhere.  It's a great compact 9mm with 12 round mag that is superior to a glock43.  They have a 365XL now that I'll be getting, which will for my hand better.. its slightly larger, and just where it's needed.  I think a 15rnd magazine os available for it.  

I've owned several glocks, and they are good weapons for sure.  The 365 set the concealed world on its ear- but it had issues... the issues have been resolved and the weapon is a very well made tool, and one that will last generations.  I've a M&P shield as well as a M&P double stack 9, and I really like the double stacked M&P... it too had some issues in its first generation/iteration, but they've been solved as well.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 11, 2022, 01:27:18 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 11, 2022, 12:59:12 PM

The EZ is a great weapon for ladies... the slide is super easy to charge.  I think there may be a 9mm now, bit when I had one it was a 380.

Yes they do offer it in 9mm.

https://www.smith-wesson.com/9ez

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2022, 01:29:06 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 11, 2022, 12:37:25 PM

AR-15 I presume?

I was thinking over the weekend that I will begin an AR-10 build, probably .308 caliber. One of the nice things about the AR platforms is that you really don't need that many tools to build one yourself. They are pretty easy to assemble.

Yes sir.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2022, 01:29:55 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 11, 2022, 12:59:12 PM

The EZ is a great weapon for ladies... the slide is super easy to charge.  I think there may be a 9mm now, bit when I had one it was a 380. 

That's what I just bought for my wife. The 9mm.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 11, 2022, 01:46:36 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 10, 2022, 11:33:04 PM

Of course, but no one wants the government to tell them what they can and cannot say.  None of you would like it. 

This is not a free speech issue at all. The government is restricting the government. That’s not more government; that’s less government. 

We need more laws that restrict and constrain government. Not less.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 11, 2022, 01:51:52 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2022, 06:04:42 AM

This comes as not a surprise to me. Well, there is one surprise. CNN (et al.)  is not reporting on it.


California, New York handled COVID-19 lockdowns the worst, Florida among the best, a new study shows | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/california-new-york-covid-lockdowns-worst-florida-best-study)

No way! The same CNN that basically was the PR arm of the Cumomo governorship of New York- and helped cover up and gloss over his disastrous handling of Covid patients and nursing homes! 

Andrew Cuomo wound up being not only a criminal but a sexual pervert and deviant, and his little f**kface brother who worked at CNN wound up being one too and got his ass fired from CNN. LOL. 

Don’t ever remember CNN running the story of that shitbag Newsome in California eating unmasked indoors with a group of 15 people from the health care & drug lobby at the most expensive and prestigious restaurant in the entire f**king USA- The French Laundry - while he had no indoor eating, no gathering, and strict masking orders implemented for the state. Do as I say, not as I do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 11, 2022, 01:52:04 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2022, 01:29:55 PM

That's what I just bought for my wife. The 9mm.

I would like to get one for my wife, but she insists that any handgun I buy for her be purple in color. Not sure I can get it in purple. ::)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2022, 02:02:03 PM

I saw some purple guns at the shop Friday. I didn't look at them. Haha.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 11, 2022, 02:07:05 PM

What about purple AND rainbow???

(https://i.imgur.com/pCaNRaH.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 11, 2022, 02:10:16 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 11, 2022, 02:07:05 PM

What about purple AND rainbow???

(https://i.imgur.com/pCaNRaH.png)

I'll have to show that to her and get her opinion. ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2022, 02:10:47 PM

Just say no.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 11, 2022, 02:15:43 PM

Kind of cool.  If the last thing you see when you attempt to carjack me is purple rainbow, it makes for a colorful 
Ending.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 11, 2022, 02:28:40 PM

IMO most men don't have the mental/physiological attributes to be carrying a handgun for self defense

the number of women would be far less as a percentage, I'm guessing

but, that shouldn't limit their right to carry if they think they can handle it 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 11, 2022, 02:34:08 PM

Tight Oil Markets Are Sending Fuel Margins Through The Roof
By Alex Kimani - Apr 08, 2022, 6:00 PM CDT

Oil prices have dominated headlines in recent weeks, but the most dramatic action has been happening in a hidden corner of the market.

Distillate fuel prices are breaking records left and right.

High fuel prices could ultimately erode global demand for crude oil.


https://oilprice.com/Energy/Gas-Prices/Tight-Oil-Markets-Are-Sending-Fuel-Margins-Through-The-Roof.html (https://oilprice.com/Energy/Gas-Prices/Tight-Oil-Markets-Are-Sending-Fuel-Margins-Through-The-Roof.html)

Margins!!!

I sent this to my financial guy to see if he wanted to beef up with stock purchases

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2022, 02:47:09 PM

Headed to Fort Lauderdale tomorrow - 25th Anniversary. Holy crap. 25 years.

Embark on a cruise Thursday, 4 nights. Should be a lot of fun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 11, 2022, 02:50:28 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2022, 02:47:09 PM

Headed to Fort Lauderdale tomorrow - 25th Anniversary. Holy crap. 25 years.

Embark on a cruise Thursday, 4 nights. Should be a lot of fun.

Have fun storming the castle!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 11, 2022, 02:54:22 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 11, 2022, 02:28:40 PM

IMO most men don't have the mental/physiological attributes to be carrying a handgun for self defense

the number of women would be far less as a percentage, I'm guessing

but, that shouldn't limit their right to carry if they think they can handle it

i'll say this here... it's but a dark dusty corner of the interwebs where it's likely to never go anywhere... 

I carry for a reason that likely escapes most.... and, I've shot people before- both from a range and up close and personal.. so it's not like i'm speaking completely ignorant of what happens during and afterward. 

the reason i carry is NOT so much protection from the boogie man, but to keep ME in line.... yup- when i have, on my person, the ability to dramatically and drastically alter the course of a dispute now and forever, it keeps me from engaging ass holes that otherwise would be called out, and realizing calling them out would escalate into a altercation, which stands a percentage greater escalation to physical altercation, and which leads to people reaching for things to use as weapons because pride is more valued than discretion in the violent culture of those those assholes wandering around looking be calling out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 11, 2022, 03:08:09 PM

yup, many things to think about while carry lethal force

before, during and after an altercation

most folks aren't prepared

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 11, 2022, 03:33:47 PM

Fending off looters and Antifa are one thing, but if the govt is after you then your mini arsenal isn't going to do squat. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2022, 04:17:17 PM

That's why I'm not done buying.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 11, 2022, 04:31:26 PM

Owning a gun is in the same boat as getting a tattoo for me.  I like the idea of it, but not enough to actually get one.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 11, 2022, 04:35:15 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 11, 2022, 03:08:09 PM

yup, many things to think about while carry lethal force

before, during and after an altercation

most folks aren't prepared

But many are.  As Drew said- it definitely makes you go even further to avoid confrontation, which I do anyway. 
But given that there are so many who possess them who are intending on hurting others- given a situation that is clearly them or me/loved ones, there is no need to think about much. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 11, 2022, 04:37:29 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 11, 2022, 04:31:26 PM

Owning a gun is in the same boat as getting a tattoo for me.  I like the idea of it, but not enough to actually get one. 

You shouldn't get one, IMHO, ever.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 11, 2022, 05:15:45 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 11, 2022, 03:33:47 PM

Fending off looters and Antifa are one thing, but if the govt is after you then your mini arsenal isn't going to do squat.

If nobody turns in then what? Think a lot of the Military/Law Enforcement might just start defending the constitution instead of the cocks in office who refuse to do just that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 11, 2022, 06:24:47 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 11, 2022, 04:37:29 PM

You shouldn't get one, IMHO, ever. 

Why?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 11, 2022, 06:37:59 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 11, 2022, 05:15:45 PM

If nobody turns in then what? Think a lot of the Military/Law Enforcement might just start defending the constitution instead of the cocks in office who refuse to do just that

Take the BLM Dallas shooter for example. He was a trained Marine with an arsenal of military grade weapons that was larger than all of yours combined. He had a great spot; the high ground atop a parking garage, tailor made for sniping. They took him out lickety split, blowing him up with a GD robot. 

You guys and your AR-15s aren't going to do a damn thing. They are the ones that have all the tanks and bombs and prisons. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 11, 2022, 06:46:58 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 11, 2022, 05:15:45 PM

If nobody turns in then what? Think a lot of the Military/Law Enforcement might just start defending the constitution instead of the cocks in office who refuse to do just that

This is assuming some sort of wild coup, correct? 

Alas, respect for our constitution is in short supply, just about all over. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 11, 2022, 06:49:40 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 11, 2022, 02:54:22 PM

I carry for a reason that likely escapes most.... and, I've shot people before- both from a range and up close and personal.. so it's not like i'm speaking completely ignorant of what happens during and afterward.

I’m hoping this means you are ex military, correct?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 11, 2022, 07:12:28 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 11, 2022, 06:37:59 PM

Take the BLM Dallas shooter for example. He was a trained Marine with an arsenal of military grade weapons that was larger than all of yours combined. He had a great spot; the high ground atop a parking garage, tailor made for sniping. They took him out lickety split, blowing him up with a GD robot.

You guys and your AR-15s aren't going to do a damn thing. They are the ones that have all the tanks and bombs and prisons.

I don't have an AR-15 or anything close.If the assholes on capitol hill attempt to cancel constitutional rights - they maybe canceled.I have Cop friends and 2 0f my brothers were in the military.You haven't deluded yourself to think that these men would ignore the constitution rights and take a knee to snow flakes like Biden/Pelosi/Harris the very treasonous hacks who sat back as communities all over the country were put to the torch? As they live behind walls in a gated communities with their own personnel protection? After 2020 the last thing most Americans would agree to is that. The result would make what's going on in the Ukraine be tame by comparison. Military and cops aren't going to open up on law abiding citizens while the real criminals are in office - and they know it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 11, 2022, 07:15:40 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 11, 2022, 02:28:40 PM

IMO most men don't have the mental/physiological attributes to be carrying a handgun for self defense

the number of women would be far less as a percentage, I'm guessing

but, that shouldn't limit their right to carry if they think they can handle it

I remember at a Chipotle in a rough part of Columbus I saw a gal that was proudly wearing a Smith and Wesson tee shirt. Nobody said one word to her about her Confederate flag hat. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 11, 2022, 07:17:56 PM

Yes; Marine.  

Insofar as "if gov't comes for you".... the type of circumstance that would warrant deploying "arsenal" would be the very kind police and mitary would support.  Not officially, likely and based on the way things are currently going, but as people of honor.  

..... and there is a bunch of people in Ukraine right now giving ruskies hell... with small arms.... more than that, a bunch of tribesmen in the mountains of Afghanistan whipped the Russians arses, and gave us hell... mostly small arms except for the crew served and artillery they relieved their aggressors of.  

Nobody in their right mind wants to see a mess, especially here, nor does anyone who is sane wish to be in a situation where life or death is suspended.... but if we are, and it's inevitable we will be now, later, or much later- it's better to be able to defend your family and comminity as best you can....

And I will.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 11, 2022, 07:23:53 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 11, 2022, 03:08:09 PM

yup, many things to think about while carry lethal force

before, during and after an altercation

most folks aren't prepared

I tend to agree with this. But it makes folks feel safe. And there’s something to be said for that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 11, 2022, 07:25:04 PM

Yeah, I'm all for taking a few of those bastages out with me. I'm just not under any delusion that I will survive the episode. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 11, 2022, 07:40:49 PM

Not going to happen,you would have a whole country of accomplices. Those sharp shooters were going after creeps not some guy who wants to keeps his pistol or shotgun for protection/hunting

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 11, 2022, 10:00:21 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruig2Plu-HI

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2022, 06:35:51 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 11, 2022, 06:37:59 PM

Take the BLM Dallas shooter for example. He was a trained Marine with an arsenal of military grade weapons that was larger than all of yours combined. He had a great spot; the high ground atop a parking garage, tailor made for sniping. They took him out lickety split, blowing him up with a GD robot.

You guys and your AR-15s aren't going to do a damn thing. They are the ones that have all the tanks and bombs and prisons.

The potted plant has said as much.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2022, 06:39:59 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 11, 2022, 11:29:24 PM

nope just observations

I predict states like Penn will play this game through mid term election day in hopes of getting the same voting perks they enjoyed a year and a half ago

It's the only "play" they have right now. They know November is going to be a bloodbath, so 2AM ballot drops is their only hope.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 12, 2022, 08:59:27 AM

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Joe Biden is visiting corn-rich Iowa on Tuesday to announce he’ll suspend a federal rule preventing the sale of higher ethanol blend gasoline this summer, as his administration tries to tamp down prices at the pump that have spiked during Russia’s war with Ukraine.

Most gasoline sold in the U.S. is blended with 10% ethanol. The Environmental Protection Agency will issue an emergency waiver to allow widespread sale of 15% ethanol blend that is usually prohibited between June 1 and Sept. 15 because of concerns that it adds to smog in high temperatures.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2022, 09:02:19 AM

So to hell with climate change then?

Can the climate Czar use 15 ethanol in his private jet too?

What a crock.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2022, 09:22:05 AM

The reduced fuel economy of 15% gasohol would largely offset any savings at the pump.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 12, 2022, 09:27:02 AM

yup, mileage suffers about the same percentage, a little more in my Impala

but, decreasing oil consumption by 5% might help the world market

apparently crude prices are back to pre ukraine war levels, but of course gas prices are not

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2022, 09:30:41 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/x6tSTbR.png)

Brent is at $103 today, so prices have not recovered entirely.  You can see the Ukraine spike in the chart.  Oil prices have dropped back to a large degree.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 12, 2022, 10:03:16 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2022, 09:02:19 AM

So to hell with climate change then?

Can the climate Czar use 15 ethanol in his private jet too?

What a crock.

Considering it was Brandon's Party that invented the internet you use to spout off you could be a little more grateful 🤣.Hell even little Hunter has helped out by investing in lithium/cobalt and other raw materials used in EV batteries and consumer electronics companies that has 10% of CCP holdings in green energy . Out of kindness just to help the good old USA meet daddy's stated goals to have all green vehicles on our roads between 2030-40. I don't know why you can't see the sacrifices these fine folks have made for the greater good.Shame on you,Buster

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2022, 10:07:05 AM

Jet A is the common jet fuel, I doubt it has any ethanol, it's basically Kerosene with some additives.

A turbine can burn about anything if adjusted for it, but ethanol inherently has less fuel value than a pure hydrocarbon because it's already partially oxidized.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 12, 2022, 12:26:31 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 11, 2022, 06:37:59 PM

Take the BLM Dallas shooter for example. He was a trained Marine with an arsenal of military grade weapons that was larger than all of yours combined. He had a great spot; the high ground atop a parking garage, tailor made for sniping. They took him out lickety split, blowing him up with a GD robot.

You guys and your AR-15s aren't going to do a damn thing. They are the ones that have all the tanks and bombs and prisons.

That's what the British thought in the late 1700's. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 12, 2022, 12:32:01 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 12, 2022, 10:07:05 AM

Jet A is the common jet fuel, I doubt it has any ethanol, it's basically Kerosene with some additives.

A turbine can burn about anything if adjusted for it, but ethanol inherently has less fuel value than a pure hydrocarbon because it's already partially oxidized.

From what I can tell, I believe the comment you are responding to, was made in jest. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2022, 12:34:53 PM

Oh I'm sure it was, I was just thinking about using ethanol in a jet turbine.  It's doable, with a drop in range.

I suspect "green jets" may have to rely in hydrogen as fuel, someday, perhaps.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2022, 01:09:00 PM

Funky “Dogbone” Roundabout Design Reduces Crash Injuries (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/news/dogbone-roundabout-design-crash-injury-reduction-iihs/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR10bihlFAecJ7FLi78S1a55KKIAeCJFWpP4tRYeGQhmSpBpbB469aApRIc)

These are pretty common in France, or something very similar to this, they usually have a full round about at each junction.


(https://i.imgur.com/c3tLOP9.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2022, 01:12:28 PM

US airports top ranking of ‘world’s busiest’ hubs in 2021 | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/transportation/3265275-us-airports-top-ranking-of-worlds-busiest-hubs-in-2021/)

Eight of ten in the US.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 12, 2022, 01:13:33 PM

Yeah the French do love their roundabouts.  I suppose an extended roundabout is even better in their eyes.

I haven't seen any of those around here, but the double-crossover aka diverging diamond interchange is becoming more common down here in Texico.

(https://i.imgur.com/zphQIP7.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2022, 01:16:52 PM

I passed through two new roundabouts in Cincy that weren't there last I was.  We don't have many around here, the diamond reverse thing is becoming more common.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 12, 2022, 02:44:04 PM

We (and by us, I mean MnDOT) been installing a lot of dogbones and double-roundabouts at interchanges. The dogbones are a little harder to shift traffic around on, as they function as one giant roundabout.

Diamond interchanges with roundabouts are much, much safer than ones without them, especially if there are sightline issues. Instead of someone getting T-boned at speed, the cars are all going slower and going in the same direction when they make contact. More bumper tag, but very little injury or death.

On the DDIs, the throughput capacity is constrained by the intersections on the crossroads on either side of the DDI. Also, they are much easier to operate signals on. There are only two phases instead of four or more to line up. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 12, 2022, 03:35:33 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 12, 2022, 12:26:31 PM

That's what the British thought in the late 1700's.

No, the British were marching into battle with bright red coats, playing drums and blaring horns.

They were sitting ducks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 12, 2022, 03:40:25 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 12, 2022, 01:13:33 PM

Yeah the French do love their roundabouts.  I suppose an extended roundabout is even better in their eyes.

I haven't seen any of those around here, but the double-crossover aka diverging diamond interchange is becoming more common down here in Texico.

[img width=500 height=280.99]https://i.imgur.com/zphQIP7.jpg[/img]

I hate those. 

Pretty sure my city is a test area for weird exits. We have 6, one is the diverging diamond, one is an overpass SPUI, one is an underpass SPUI, 1 is book ended by a pair of traffic circles, and the other two are so close together that they have over lapping on and off ramps where you have to cross three lanes in short order, and one of those is also a SPUI. :-[

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2022, 04:44:36 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 12, 2022, 03:35:33 PM

No, the British were marching into battle with bright red coats, playing drums and blaring horns.

They were sitting ducks.

The British were better trained than the French conscripts and could fire four times a minute to about three for the French.  Muskets are only accurate inside about 70 yards or so.  The idea was to mass fire and repeat, few opponents could stand that for long and then the British would "fix bayonets".  They were remarkably effective at battle.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 12, 2022, 04:49:25 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 11, 2022, 06:37:59 PM

You guys and your AR-15s aren't going to do a damn thing. They are the ones that have all the tanks and bombs and prisons.

Yup. 

Don’t forget drones with hellfire missiles- which Obama normalized/set precedent of killing of US citizens without due process with. And he even justified/explained away that CRIME  by comparing what he did to the exact hypothetical you just mentioned- taking out a shooter in public. 

History tells us there will be a revolution one day and the US government will fall. How or when it happens and what comes after is anyones guess. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2022, 04:54:38 PM

Countries don't always end in revolution of course, as history shows.

And sometimes they morph into a different country with different rules and money etc. in the same place.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2022, 04:55:22 PM

Hunter Biden's business is a bad look. Here's how to fix it. (msnbc.com) (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/hunter-biden-s-business-bad-look-here-s-how-fix-n1294057?icid=msd_topgrid)

When MSNBC deigns to mention something of this ilk, I find it notable and interesting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 12, 2022, 05:16:59 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 12, 2022, 04:49:25 PM

Yup.

Don’t forget drones with hellfire missiles- which Obama normalized/set precedent of killing of US citizens without due process with. And he even justified/explained away that CRIME  by comparing what he did to the exact hypothetical you just mentioned- taking out a shooter in public.

History tells us there will be a revolution one day and the US government will fall. How or when it happens and what comes after is anyones guess.

Oh come on man

I already got a nickname for ya

MDot "swamp fox" 21

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 12, 2022, 06:12:14 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 12, 2022, 04:49:25 PM

Yup.

Don’t forget drones with hellfire missiles- which Obama normalized/set precedent of killing of US citizens without due process with. And he even justified/explained away that CRIME  by comparing what he did to the exact hypothetical you just mentioned- taking out a shooter in public.

History tells us there will be a revolution one day and the US government will fall. How or when it happens and what comes after is anyones guess.

It's pretty obvious, actually. The androgynous White Left will boat race the Christians in the semifinals, only to get annihilated by their beloved Jihadists in the National Championship Game.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2022, 06:27:57 PM

In the past, countries have often just worn down over a long period of time and then broke apart or reformed into something else.  It need not be dramatic, though dramatic events will occur that weaken countries.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 12, 2022, 10:22:33 PM

Our downfall will be somewhat unprecedented, as we're the furthest along down the industrialization path and our schism is largely urban vs rural.  It's not like a region of the US could just break off and form a new country (sorry, Texas), because no full state is homogenously one party. 
.
Our bickering may simply endure beyond maintaining our systems - basically what we blame our congress of doing right now.  Ignoring needed governance that benefits everyone in order to get re-elected.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 12, 2022, 11:16:03 PM

https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1513991320318222347?s=20&t=XJWWyg6bH9RT79_-Ov27wA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 12, 2022, 11:49:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 12, 2022, 04:44:36 PM

The British were better trained than the French conscripts and could fire four times a minute to about three for the French.  Muskets are only accurate inside about 70 yards or so.  The idea was to mass fire and repeat, few opponents could stand that for long and then the British would "fix bayonets".  They were remarkably effective at battle.

Till the colonists started mixing Indian tactics with Napoleonic tactics.Then they were like WTF

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 12, 2022, 11:51:46 PM

Cheat code!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 13, 2022, 12:16:03 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 12, 2022, 11:49:13 PM

Till the colonists started mixing Indian tactics with Napoleonic tactics.Then they were like WTF

Yeah, they lost because the Patriots didn't fight by rigid British protocol. 

It would be a lot easier to box Mike Tyson if his hands were cuffed behind his back. It would be a lot easier to beat LeBron James one on one if his shoes were tied together and he had to use a football while on offense. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2022, 07:00:36 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 12, 2022, 11:49:13 PM

Till the colonists started mixing Indian tactics with Napoleonic tactics.Then they were like WTF

This is largely a fable of mistaught American history.  The major battles in the WoI were fought using British tactics and arms.  The British did have to content with partisans and asymmetric warfare, which is common when one side has overwhelming power.  The British won a lot of battles in the WoI, just not the last one, which is to a large degree due to help from the French.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 13, 2022, 07:16:03 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 12, 2022, 03:35:33 PM

No, the British were marching into battle with bright red coats, playing drums and blaring horns.

They were sitting ducks.

You do realize that the American Army used the same formations and tactics as Washington and many of the other American leaders were trained by the British. Also, only about 4% of Americans that identified as Patriots, actively fought against the British.

My point is that don't EVER discount citizens armed with small arms, defending their homes and families. A bunch of goat herders in Afghanistan pushed the Russian army out and made life miserable for the US troops. 

The United States has over 100 million gun owners with over 2 TRILLION rounds of ammunition. If 4% of them actively fought, that would be an army of 4 Million. Also take into account that a good number of our active military would NOT actively fight in a conflict that required that they attack fellow Americans. 

The other thing to take into account is that in a conflict between the US Armed forces and the American people, the armed forces would certainly face many logisitcal issues. Who do you think supplies the armed forces with weapons, fuel, food, clothing and many other essential items? The Army would never be able to maintain supply lines and hold real estate. They would get slaughtered. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2022, 07:20:45 AM

It would be problematic for any conventional army to deal with motivated US "partisans", and more so for the US military, because many of them would side with their neighbors.  But I don't expect such a thing on any scale, ever.

I think the demise of the US when it comes will be fairly quiet and gradual.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 13, 2022, 07:24:50 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 13, 2022, 07:20:45 AM

It would be problematic for any conventional army to deal with motivated US "partisans", and more so for the US military, because many of them would side with their neighbors.  But I don't expect such a thing on any scale, ever.

I think the demise of the US when it comes will be fairly quiet and gradual.

I really don't expect it to happen either. I was just explaining that it is not as cut and dried and some people would believe it to be. There is a reason that the 2nd Amendment was included in the BOR. And in spite of what the potted plant in the WH says, it was not about hunting dear. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2022, 07:37:29 AM

Our Federal government today has enormously more power and influence than the Founders ever would have understood and liked, for better or worse.  I read somewhere that before income tax, the only real contact a citizen had with the US government was at the Post Office (aside from wars).  You would live your entire  life with no real connections to Federal government, aside from voting, and the PO.

That isn't a realistic dream today even for "small government types" of course.  We can rue this, or accept it as reality, either or, it doesn't matter, the only thing I see different in the political parties is the pace with which government becomes more intrusive, and I'm not sure that is much more than optics.

And of course the early income tax plans didn't impact many of us.  Our tax situation is really bizarre in my view, like one of these hospitals that has had 19 additions and revisions and you can't find your way through them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2022, 07:39:37 AM

"On April 11, 1783, Congress declares a permanent ceasefire with Great Britain, bringing the hostilities of the American Revolution to an end. The American Revolution began as a result of increasing efforts of Parliament to control her American colonies. After the French and Indian War ended in 1763, Parliament attempted to extract more taxes from the colonists in order to make up the heavy debt incurred during the war and to pay for soldiers stationed in the colonies to police the territory gained in the war.

The colonists rejected the taxes primarily because they had no representation in Parliament and they believed this "taxation without representation" was unfair. They believed governments should govern "with the consent of the governed." Parliament continued with various schemes of taxation over the next decade and the colonists became increasingly rebellious.

Britain eventually occupied Boston, which was viewed as the center of the resistance. After the war broke out on April 19, 1775 at Lexington, the Americans soon surrounded Boston and forced the British to leave the city. This illustrates the problem Britain had for the entire war. She was able to control the cities with an occupying army, but controlling the entire countryside was impossible. The territory was simply too large to control, even for the largest army in the world.

After France, Spain and Holland joined the war on the American side, Britain was faced with a world war, with theatres from the Caribbean to the Mediterranean to India. She was actually forced to withdraw soldiers from North America to defend other areas and create a new American strategy. This resulted in the Southern Strategy in which Britain withdrew from the north and tried to capture the southern colonies. Again, the large cities were easy to take, but the countryside was impossible.

Southern commanders such as Nathanael Greene were able to wear out the army of British General Charles Cornwallis by drawing them into long marches inland. Eventually, Cornwallis was forced to flee to the coast, hoping for reinforcements. A large French fleet blocked the reinforcements from landing at Yorktown, Virginia and George Washington was able to trap Cornwallis and force his surrender.

The surrender of Cornwallis' army disheartened Parliament enough that it was ready to concede the war. Peace negotiations began and the preliminary Treaty of Paris was signed on November 30, 1782. Parliament ratified the preliminary treaty on January 20, 1783 and declared a ceasefire on February 4. Congress declared a ceasefire on April 11, 1783 and ratified the treaty on April 15. After more negotiations, the final Treaty of Paris was agreed to by Congress on January 14, 1784 and by Parliament on April 9, 1784, with final copies of the document exchanged in Paris on May 12, 1784."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 13, 2022, 08:24:01 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 13, 2022, 07:16:03 AM

You do realize that the American Army used the same formations and tactics as Washington and many of the other American leaders were trained by the British. Also, only about 4% of Americans that identified as Patriots, actively fought against the British.

My point is that don't EVER discount citizens armed with small arms, defending their homes and families. A bunch of goat herders in Afghanistan pushed the Russian army out and made life miserable for the US troops.

The United States has over 100 million gun owners with over 2 TRILLION rounds of ammunition. If 4% of them actively fought, that would be an army of 4 Million. Also take into account that a good number of our active military would NOT actively fight in a conflict that required that they attack fellow Americans.

The other thing to take into account is that in a conflict between the US Armed forces and the American people, the armed forces would certainly face many logisitcal issues. Who do you think supplies the armed forces with weapons, fuel, food, clothing and many other essential items? The Army would never be able to maintain supply lines and hold real estate. They would get slaughtered.

What would all of the pussy class Americans do? Hide in their safe spaces?

I've got about 4K rounds at the ready. The eyes are still great at long distances too. Reading... not so much.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2022, 08:35:02 AM

I despised history in school, even in college.  I now really enjoy it, it's most of my reading.  It's amazing such an interesting subject can be taught so poorly I think, and so errantly in many cases.  I've been surprised how much I was taught that simply is misleading or overly simplified or completely omitted.

Of course, it was common in HS for coaches to be teaching history.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 13, 2022, 08:47:36 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 13, 2022, 07:16:03 AM

You do realize that the American Army used the same formations and tactics as Washington and many of the other American leaders were trained by the British. Also, only about 4% of Americans that identified as Patriots, actively fought against the British.

My point is that don't EVER discount citizens armed with small arms, defending their homes and families. A bunch of goat herders in Afghanistan pushed the Russian army out and made life miserable for the US troops.

The United States has over 100 million gun owners with over 2 TRILLION rounds of ammunition. If 4% of them actively fought, that would be an army of 4 Million. Also take into account that a good number of our active military would NOT actively fight in a conflict that required that they attack fellow Americans.

The other thing to take into account is that in a conflict between the US Armed forces and the American people, the armed forces would certainly face many logisitcal issues. Who do you think supplies the armed forces with weapons, fuel, food, clothing and many other essential items? The Army would never be able to maintain supply lines and hold real estate. They would get slaughtered.

Well yeah, the Afghans aren't concerned about war crimes and what not. Anything goes. We on the other hand have to do things by the book. It is a losing recipe. We are the Brits on that situation. It would be like a fight where one person adheres to competitive fighting rules while the other is free to gouge eyes and kick groins and snap knees.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 13, 2022, 09:45:40 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 13, 2022, 07:00:36 AM

This is largely a fable of mistaught American history.  The major battles in the WoI were fought using British tactics and arms.  The British did have to content with partisans and asymmetric warfare, which is common when one side has overwhelming power.  The British won a lot of battles in the WoI, just not the last one, which is to a large degree due to help from the French.

No it's not,I've read it,saw it on the History Channel/PBS segments. There are paintings/drawings from actual participants of the War that they clearly show the Minute Men recessed in tree lines popping Redcoats in their ridiculous formations out in the open. Of course even those toffee nosed bastards would break and run when they realised they were getting filleted and upstarts weren't folding like before. The Minute Men blended many tactics,remember not  everyone was from England - Count Pulaski,Marquis de Lafayette,Baron Von Stueben - gotta love those names,no wonder they won the fookin' war.Also some guy named Washington was with General Braddock when he got whacked in the French & Indian Wars. No doubt George tooks some notes on concealment/ambush tactics. Colonists weren't daft and going to play by the silly rules laid out by the Aristocratic A-holes that benefitted them and the Hessians pressed into service.

 Evidently the Hessians had no axe to grind, the German princes sold their subjects into the King's service as the soldiers didn't recieve a dime.So it didn't take much coercing for them to bolt allegiance. I can't find the source but evidently part of Washington's command were Pennslvannia Dutch who encouraged the colonials on the Christmas attack at Trenton.As amongst the British types(English,Scottish,Irish,Welsh,Cornish) Christmas was more of a somber/austere occasion at that time.Where as the Tuetonic types (Germans,Swiss,Danish,Austrian) there was more merry making,the Christmas Tree,singing,Schnapps & Suds. They were betting the Gerries maybe sleeping it off - and it was recorded that some may have been.They certainly were surprised none the less. Supposedly Johann Rall a Hessian commander killed at the Battle was concerned about the forward exposed position of the Garrison at Trenton but high command didn't move them. Gosh the higher ups weren't very bright back then either

Fun Fact Cindy on her mother side traces her lineage back to a Hessian named Conrad Auble,who was captured,swore allegiance switched sides and recieved I don't know how many Acres. I heard his name mentioned on a PBS Special.Out of 13,000 Hessians 5,500 stayed and became Americans. Like many soldiers many died of disease/wound infections. The rest either were killed or went back. 

It appeared between the English/French/Irish/Polish/Scots/Africans/Swiss-Germans - Washington recruited rather well.

A Republic - if you can keep it - Ben Franklin

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2022, 09:48:04 AM

The MAJOR BATTLES were fought using traditional line of battle on both sides.  Some minor scrapes were not because one side out numbered the other by a large margin.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 13, 2022, 09:48:51 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 13, 2022, 08:35:02 AM

I despised history in school, even in college. 

Um no,those sources are solid, while they did line up like that periodically and that makes for good paintings that is nonsense. So the men there who drew or painted depictions were mistaken? I suppose you think all of Minute men wore Blue coats too. One of the few subjects i found great interest in

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2022, 09:52:45 AM

Brandywine Battle Facts and Summary | American Battlefield Trust (battlefields.org) (https://www.battlefields.org/learn/revolutionary-war/battles/brandywine)

On September 11, 1777, General George Washington (https://www.battlefields.org/learn/biographies/george-washington) was determined to prevent the British from capturing the American seat of government, Philadelphia. Taking up positions along Brandywine Creek, Washington mistakenly believed that his army blocked all fords across the Brandywine.
Opposing Washington was Sir William Howe (https://www.battlefields.org/learn/biographies/william-howe) and an army of 15,500 British Regulars and Hessian troops. Hidden by heavy fog, the British moved into position. General Wilhelm von Kynphausen (https://www.battlefields.org/learn/biographies/wilhelm-von-knyphausen) was ordered to demonstrate against the Americans’ front at Chadds Ford, while the bulk of Howe’s forces crossed the Brandywine further upstream.
The battle had been raging for hours by the time Howe's force appeared undetected on the Continental right flank. Washington dispatched troops under General John Sullivan (https://www.battlefields.org/learn/biographies/john-sullivan) and William Alexander, “Lord Stirling,” (https://www.battlefields.org/learn/biographies/lord-stirling) to shore up his right flank. However, despite putting up a stiff resistance, the Continentals were eventually overrun by Howe’s men.
Simultaneously, Knyphausen’s troops hit the American units that remained near the Quaker meeting house at Chadds Ford. Washington’s line collapsed.
To prevent the defeat turning into disaster Washington ordered Nathanael Greene’s (https://www.battlefields.org/learn/biographies/nathanael-greene) division to act as a rear-guard so that the Continental Army could escape to the northeast. Greene’s brave men counterattacked, going toe-to-toe with British along the crest of Birmingham Hill. When night fell, the remaining Americans fell back in an orderly retreat, led in part by the Marquis de Lafayette. (https://www.battlefields.org/learn/biographies/marquis-de-lafayette) Although wounded, the charismatic young Frenchman remained on the field to ensure an organized withdrawal.
The crushing defeat allowed the British to occupy Philadelphia, but the bulk of the Continental army survived to fight another day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 13, 2022, 10:02:03 AM

FFS that's one battle. The colonials adjusted after those debacles,You should know this being from the south read about the battle of Cowpens followed up by Kings Mountain - fought in the Carolina's. They had to use the tools at their disposal and Guerilla tactics were one of them. The Colonials showed formation broke fell back as the British were engulfed by unseen forces in the woods and behind hills. If Banastre Tarlton or Patrick Ferguson were here they would tell you are mistaken. Hell at York town they weren't in formation firing at each other behind ramparts.Again men there painted these scenes,I could agree with you then we'd both be wrong.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2022, 10:12:01 AM

I will stand by my comment about major battles.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 13, 2022, 10:16:40 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 13, 2022, 08:24:01 AM

Hide in their safe spaces?

I've got about 4K rounds at the ready. The eyes are still great at long distances too. Reading... not so much.

It always comes back to making the gun stuff weird. Why does it always do that?

Anyway. The answer to the first question is complicated because it depends the nature of the imaginary conflict. The lines would be extremely unclear if there were a case of arms citizens rising up. But fortunately, this imaginary conflict is very, very likely a fantasy for those who fashion themselves as braves.

-Folks with guns tend to identify strongly with the people they'd be shooting in that scenario. 
-A lot of the folks they'd be shooting identify strongly with them, and might well be forsaking the government they'd likely be representing
-Americans often don't care about constitutional rights, and the two groups above at times aggressively attack them (some are intended as road blocks for our protectors, so that makes sense), so very few folks are gonna stand tall "for the constitution" (they might stand tall for themselves, but tell you it's for the constitution)
-If you did have a case where armed folks were in revolt, it would likely be backing the military in some kind of coup, and those tend to be anti-democratic, a thing we very much don't want. 

The more interesting thing is that despite our cos-play of being super polarized, we are to enough of a degree intermingled, so we're all mostly stuck together. Probably a good thing, even if it irks people. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2022, 10:32:43 AM

I'm not overly concerned about quartering of troops these days.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 13, 2022, 10:38:37 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 13, 2022, 10:32:43 AM

I'm not overly concerned about quartering of troops these days.

That's good. I'm also imagining a world in which quartering troops was the thing that pushed folks over the edge. That would be something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 13, 2022, 11:18:04 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 13, 2022, 10:12:01 AM

I will stand by my comment about major battles.

Thank God the colonials stood behind trees or we're not commenting ;D

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 13, 2022, 11:23:11 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 13, 2022, 10:16:40 AM

-If you did have a case where armed folks were in revolt, it would likely be backing the military in some kind of coup, and those tend to be anti-democratic, a thing we very much don't want.

Problem is it wouldn't really be anti-democratic as both parties are so far removed from public service that the government once provided. Now both are dripping with guilt for tending to their own tills

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 13, 2022, 11:56:30 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 13, 2022, 11:23:11 AM

Problem is it wouldn't really be anti-democratic as both parties are so far removed from public service that the government once provided. Now both are dripping with guilt for tending to their own tills

That’s an issue to be solved at the ballot box.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 13, 2022, 12:13:16 PM

I wish i could believe this - IF illegals are allowed to vote - the great middle class is shrinking quickly and both sides of the political Isle are guilty as shyt

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2022, 12:14:48 PM

JT Daniels headed to WVU apparently, a good spot for him.  He's a pretty good QB I think with some NFL potential if he gets PT and stays healthy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 13, 2022, 02:36:31 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 13, 2022, 11:56:30 AM

That’s an issue to be solved at the ballot box.

The path to get on the ballot prevents either choice from being ideal when you're casting one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 13, 2022, 02:53:42 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 13, 2022, 02:36:31 PM

The path to get on the ballot prevents either choice from being ideal when you're casting one.

Our primary system has faults but nothing is perfect

How would you improve it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 13, 2022, 03:10:08 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 13, 2022, 10:02:03 AM

FFS that's one battle. The colonials adjusted after those debacles,You should know this being from the south read about the battle of Cowpens followed up by Kings Mountain - fought in the Carolina's. They had to use the tools at their disposal and Guerilla tactics were one of them. The Colonials showed formation broke fell back as the British were engulfed by unseen forces in the woods and behind hills. If Banastre Tarlton or Patrick Ferguson were here they would tell you are mistaken. Hell at York town they weren't in formation firing at each other behind ramparts.Again men there painted these scenes,I could agree with you then we'd both be wrong.

For the most part, the regular army insisted on using the tactics that they were taught by the British. The millitia however, got wise and used guerilla tactics to their advantage. That is not to say that the Regular Army troops did not do this on occaision also, but most of the guerilla tactics were used by the Militia. Most, not all, of the large encounters still had officers that insisted on following the British style of battle as they had learned their trade while in service in the British army. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: BuckeyeAvenger on April 13, 2022, 04:16:16 PM

I watched a video on YouTube, saying that USC is going to join B1G, strictly for TV revenue reasons. The per team payout in B1G and SEC is more than twice what it is in ACC, Big12, and Pac12. To be a “player” in modern college football, it is necessary to be in one of those two conferences (SEC & B1G). While a timeline was not given, it was suggested that the move would be made, before the next B1G TV contract is negotiated. While it sounds wild, the reasoning was sound, it is the same reason that Texas and Oklahoma are in the SEC. The Source was Nevadabuck, who often knows things before the general population. Maybe this is how ND finally comes home, to where they naturally belong?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 13, 2022, 04:37:35 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 13, 2022, 03:10:08 PM

For the most part, the regular army insisted on using the tactics that they were taught by the British. The millitia however, got wise and used guerilla tactics to their advantage. That is not to say that the Regular Army troops did not do this on occaision also, but most of the guerilla tactics were used by the Militia. Most, not all, of the large encounters still had officers that insisted on following the British style of battle as they had learned their trade while in service in the British army.

Perhaps you missed previous posts.They decidely didn't,men there stated and painted/drew as much. The British would have won lining up right across the colonials,they could not win a war of attrition.See the Redcoats in the distance,occasionally they lined up across each other,but the citizens soldiers realized quickly it was a fools errand


(https://i.imgur.com/EjMeISb.png)
[color=var(--wp--preset--color--vivid-red)]Morgan’s riflemen sharpshooters mortally wound British General Simon Fraser[/font][/size][/color]

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 13, 2022, 04:40:07 PM

Quote from: BuckeyeAvenger on April 13, 2022, 04:16:16 PM

I watched a video on YouTube, saying that USC is going to join B1G, strictly for TV revenue reasons. The per team payout in B1G and SEC is more than twice what it is in ACC, Big12, and Pac12. To be a “player” in modern college football, it is necessary to be in one of those two conferences (SEC & B1G). While a timeline was not given, it was suggested that the move would be made, before the next B1G TV contract is negotiated. While it sounds wild, the reasoning was sound, it is the same reason that Texas and Oklahoma are in the SEC. The Source was Nevadabuck, who often knows things before the general population. Maybe this is how ND finally comes home, to where they naturally belong?

Think that is the same guy they ran off of Eleven Warriors - tOSU's biggest fan forum site.It is possible i guess doesn't make a whole lot of sense as Bowl Tradition would continue to swirl the drain

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 13, 2022, 05:37:36 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 13, 2022, 10:16:40 AM

-Folks with guns tend to identify strongly with the people they'd be shooting in that scenario.

Disagree. My son left the Marines because he saw the wokeness being enforced by those in charge.

Otherwise, he'd still be in, and you would be more safe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 13, 2022, 05:39:00 PM

Quote from: BuckeyeAvenger on April 13, 2022, 04:16:16 PM

I watched a video on YouTube, saying that USC is going to join B1G, strictly for TV revenue reasons. The per team payout in B1G and SEC is more than twice what it is in ACC, Big12, and Pac12. To be a “player” in modern college football, it is necessary to be in one of those two conferences (SEC & B1G). While a timeline was not given, it was suggested that the move would be made, before the next B1G TV contract is negotiated. While it sounds wild, the reasoning was sound, it is the same reason that Texas and Oklahoma are in the SEC. The Source was Nevadabuck, who often knows things before the general population. Maybe this is how ND finally comes home, to where they naturally belong?

Take USC and Stanford and call it good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 13, 2022, 05:56:36 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 13, 2022, 05:37:36 PM

Disagree. My son left the Marines because he saw the wokeness being enforced by those in charge.

Otherwise, he'd still be in, and you would be more safe.

I suppose I could be wrong. Still, in the imaginary world we’re talking about, those 4,000 rounds are aimed at cops and soldiers, which feels like it would take a big change in those groups to get there. 

I ask this somewhat academically, what is the arriving wokeness within the marines?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2022, 06:05:18 PM

Of Rocks, Trees, Rifles, and Militia | The Colonial Williamsburg Official History & Citizenship Site (https://research.colonialwilliamsburg.org/Foundation/journal/Winter08/tactics.cfm)

The rocks, rifles, and militia scenario originated with the story of Lexington and Concord, April 19, 1775, the skirmishes that started the fighting. British redcoats did indeed face colonial militiamen in linear formation. As the British force retreated to Boston, the colonists, armed with their own civilian weapons, sniped at their antagonists from behind fences and trees rather than confronting the professionals in formal lines of battle. With such guerilla tactics, the militiamen killed and wounded more British soldiers than British soldiers killed and wounded Americans. But the majority of the prominent battles of the war were contested quite differently.

Massed forces, British and patriot, in the linear formations at which Cosby’s monologue pokes fun, fought the battles of Long Island, Brandywine, Monmouth Courthouse, Hobkirk’s Hill, White Plains, Germantown, Camden, and Cowpens, to name a few. Sometimes, as these engagements evolved, one side or the other retreated in disarray, and some soldiers sought protection behind fences or trees or other defensive barriers. But the battle plans developed by the generals relied on linear tactics in the European fashion that dominated eighteenth-century warfare.

The concept of linear tactics is counterintuitive. It is almost ridiculous that two armies would face one another at less than a hundred yards in tight formations, three ranks deep, firing volley after volley. As they shot, they moved closer together, often closing the fight with a bayonet charge as one force drove the other from the field. Clumped, the soldiers seemingly offered their foes a classic “sitting duck” target. But this was true of both sides. Why then did eighteenth-century armies adopt such tactics?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2022, 06:07:44 PM

Linear positioning and rapid volleys explain the significance of the contributions to the American cause of Baron Friedrich von Steuben. Joining Washington’s regulars in their winter encampment at Valley Forge in February 1778, the German baron somewhat simplified the British manual of arms and used the new manual to drill the Continental force relentlessly and effectively in rapid loading and firing of the musket. He improved their battlefield maneuverability, too. Historian Douglas Southall Freeman called von Steuben the “first teacher” of the American army.
Rapidity of fire—sending constant, coordinated volleys in the direction of the enemy—was infinitely more important than the accuracy of any individual’s musket. Such firepower was hard to achieve unless the men were arrayed in open terrain and organized by company. So much for rocks and trees.
What about those rifles? These formidable firearms had been in use for about a hundred years before the Revolution, and they were plentiful in the southern and middle colonies, though relatively rare in New England. True enough, they were more accurate and effective at greater distances, several hundred yards, than were military muskets. But accuracy came at a price: rifles took too long to load. A minute or more was needed to tightly “patch” the ball and carefully ram it down the barrel to engage the rifled grooves that spun the ball and gave it true trajectory.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 13, 2022, 06:09:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 13, 2022, 05:37:36 PM

Disagree. My son left the Marines because he saw the wokeness being enforced by those in charge.

Otherwise, he'd still be in, and you would be more safe.

Yeah I couldn’t understand that comment. Most folks with guns identify with self-defense, protecting their families, and protecting their property.    The stereotypes are so thick they’re amazing sometimes. 

of course when you have people shooting 33 rounds in a subway, and the Talking Heads are blaming it on lack of gun control, this is what you get.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 13, 2022, 06:09:11 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 13, 2022, 05:56:36 PM

I suppose I could be wrong. Still, in the imaginary world we’re talking about, those 4,000 rounds are aimed at cops and soldiers, which feels like it would take a big change in those groups to get there.

I ask this somewhat academically, what is the arriving wokeness within the marines?

it isn't the 'arriving wokeness' that's the problem, if you are to refer to 'this' generation just entering.. that shit can be shook free and clean in the 12 weeks of basic. 

the ranks above- those that don't comply are sent packing.  the sheer volume of CO's, XO's and SGTMJR's being 'fired' is astounding... more than that, over the last decade there has been a purge of leadership- those with anything less than the appreciated political views are wiped, where as those remaining fill the vacuum above them.  the sequestration under obama relieved a great many of these 'types', and in the mid range 'field' grade.. guess who's flag officers now? .... a: those 'compliant', and they're focused on "woke" and believe anyone who voted for trump a domestic terrorist aka white supremacists'.   

we're not going to make it as a nation, together, that much longer.  we're focused on tribal freaking class angst and money, all while those set to keep us apart laugh their asses off.  evidence enough is the absolute attention and focus on social contracts, which is far outside of legislators or even justices jurisdiction- why are they focusing on it? to keep us at war... together, and with time between crisis's to catch our breath, 'they' get thrown in jail or tossed on some barren island in the north atlantic... but instead, they 'rule' over us... the military was a problem for them for years... it is quickly becoming an asset. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2022, 06:13:06 PM

If the two parties actually worked and compromised to get things done, they'd alienate their motivated bases to right and left, and leave those in the middle rather apathetic.  To get money and volunteers, they need us INCENSED at those bastards on the other side, so both make excuses why they don't pass any sensible legislation.  That gets everyone mad and motivated, and the two parties get what they want.

There is ample compromise available, it would disappoint some, but most would think "Well, OK, we got this and gave that", but then we'd not be donating and whatever else.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 13, 2022, 06:17:52 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 13, 2022, 06:13:06 PM

If the two parties actually worked and compromised to get things done, they'd alienate their motivated bases to right and left, and leave those in the middle rather apathetic.  To get money and volunteers, they need us INCENSED at those bastards on the other side, so both make excuses why they don't pass any sensible legislation.  That gets everyone mad and motivated, and the two parties get what they want.

There is ample compromise available, it would disappoint some, but most would think "Well, OK, we got this and gave that", but then we'd not be donating and whatever else.

i used to believe the bizarre positions of the left were a negotiating ploy in effort to drag the belligerent right to where they actually wanted them.... but that either brought the crazies out else they really are that crazy.  at this point? they're effin nuts, end of story. 

meanwhile, the states allowed the feds too much control and did so by naming their price- SOLD.... try to buck the feds? they'll pull funding... funding that, curiously enough, arrived in their coffers FROM the states... go friggin' figure.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2022, 06:20:41 PM

I think also the extremes on the right and left get most of the print, so "we" tend to think "everyone on the "X" is like "Y"".

They aren't.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 13, 2022, 06:22:01 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 13, 2022, 06:09:07 PM

Yeah I couldn’t understand that comment. Most folks with guns identify with self-defense, protecting their families, and protecting their property.    The stereotypes are so thick they’re amazing sometimes.

I’m wrong in my stereotype that those who are well armed tend to feel a kinship with LEOs and servicemen? I feel educated and corrected, then. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 13, 2022, 06:25:01 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 13, 2022, 06:20:41 PM

I think also the extremes on the right and left get most of the print, so "we" tend to think "everyone on the "X" is like "Y"".

They aren't. 

i wish i agreed with you on that.  

the left- until very recently- was unified... the right has always been discombobulated with those damn near left (rino's) and those that should be likely on a watch list rather than drafting or passing laws.  the left is truly crazy right now.  literally.... 

20 years ago my granddad, ripped from the grave an reanimated would have demanded to know who those people on the left are? he'd recognize those on the right as democrats... now? he'd recognize none of it except by title.  

seriously, we're talking and debating, hating and fighting over race, over what plumbing you have as opposed to what plumbing you say you have.. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 13, 2022, 06:29:30 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 13, 2022, 06:22:01 PM

I’m wrong in my stereotype that those who are well armed tend to feel a kinship with LEOs and servicemen? I feel educated and corrected, then.

hell, man... we can't even determine anymore if police are good guys are not... the left doesn't want you to think so.  they are all about rioting and burning cities down to make their statement- encouraging it loudly..... but Jan6?  THAT, y'all, was an i-n-s-u-r-r-e-c-t-i-o-n..... and a bold face lie... it is/was no better or no worse than the lunacy in the streets all summer.  

keeps us apart, though, huh?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 13, 2022, 07:15:11 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 13, 2022, 06:29:30 PM

hell, man... we can't even determine anymore if police are good guys are not... the left doesn't want you to think so.  they are all about rioting and burning cities down to make their statement- encouraging it loudly..... but Jan6?  THAT, y'all, was an i-n-s-u-r-r-e-c-t-i-o-n..... and a bold face lie... it is/was no better or no worse than the lunacy in the streets all summer. 

keeps us apart, though, huh? 

I don’t totally know what this means, but I feel like it keeps people apart

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 13, 2022, 07:40:16 PM

BaB sure doesn't know what a lot of stuff means. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 13, 2022, 07:59:49 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 13, 2022, 06:25:01 PM

the left- until very recently- was unified... the right has always been discombobulated with those damn near left (rino's) and those that should be likely on a watch list rather than drafting or passing laws.  the left is truly crazy right now.  literally....

You're talking about the voters here, right?

Because when it comes to the politicians, it's reversed.  The Dems lose all the time because they're branching out in all different directions in search of another tiny group that's being marginalized.  Meanwhile, all the Rs fall in line behind the head turtle from Kentucky.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 13, 2022, 08:01:18 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 13, 2022, 07:40:16 PM

BaB sure doesn't know what a lot of stuff means.

But I do know that means someone is being a childish troll. We can all be united in seeing that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 13, 2022, 08:08:35 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 13, 2022, 07:59:49 PM

You're talking about the voters here, right?

Because when it comes to the politicians, it's reversed.  The Dems lose all the time because they're branching out in all different directions in search of another tiny group that's being marginalized.  Meanwhile, all the Rs fall in line behind the head turtle from Kentucky.

This is where vantage is the major factor in what you see... beyond help. 

Im extremely conservative I've made no secret of, however, you, me, or anyone else in good legal standing and an adult in age has the right in this republic to decide on your own what you support and I'll actually bleed or make someone bleed to support that even if we disagree on an individual level. 

But you (and i) mentioned party's. 

I despise party's.  De-spise.  Theyre nothing but gangs.  Theyre gangs that do far more damage and about as much good as street gangs or organized crime. 

We've been duped.  Some of us want to stay that way. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 13, 2022, 08:10:21 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 13, 2022, 08:01:18 PM

But I do know that means someone is being a childish troll. We can all be united in seeing that.

I don't know what that means. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 13, 2022, 08:10:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 13, 2022, 06:07:44 PM

True enough, they were more accurate and effective at greater distances, several hundred yards, than were military muskets. But accuracy came at a price: rifles took too long to load. A minute or more was needed to tightly “patch” the ball and carefully ram it down the barrel to engage the rifled grooves that spun the ball and gave it true trajectory.

Exactly and the British muskets were not rifled .This is why patriots could pick them off at longer distances as that painting depicts. But ride that narrative,There were Swiss-German Gunsmiths in Pa. that supplied "Rifles" a craft perfected from their home lands. They weren't going to float around in front of the Crown's Corporals like a Carnival Shooting Gallery.When they could chose their distance and drop them like Frontier Buffalo hunters.The game didn't have rules and the fox huntings snobs didn't like it.

https://www.revolutionarywarjournal.com

"I never in my life saw better rifles,or men who shot better,than those in America." - Lt.Colonel George Hanger,4th Baron Coleraine,considered one of the fines marksmen in all of Europe

[color=var(--wp--preset--color--vivid-red)]At the Battle of Saratoga, wilderness settler and rifleman, Tim Murphy, was ordered specifically by Benedict Arnold to target an officer vigorously directing and supporting troops.  Spotting General Simon Fraser of the Twenty-fourth Foot, Murphy lifted his ‘grove bore’ rifle and mortally wounded Fraser at three hundred yards in an incredible display of marksmanship, this in a day when the average ‘smooth bore’ musket was fortunate to hit its intended target at sixty yards.[/font][/color]


During the colonial period, settlers and pioneers became trained sharpshooters. They had to learn the skill in order to protect their families and provide food and clothing from the hides of animals. Their weapon of choice was designed so that a marksman could effectively kill a squirrel jumping out of a tree at three hundred yards or better. Because of its remarkable craftsmanship and accuracy this weapon, or rifle, soon became known throughout the world.  Though thousands of muskets and rifles were made in Europe, the Kentucky Rifle, custom made in American, developed a reputation as the finest rifle made, and the premier firearm for over a century.

[color=var(--wp--preset--color--vivid-red)]The Kentucky Rifle was made in, of all places, Pennsylvania. Settlers who moved west of the Cumberland Mountains and east of the Mississippi River took  their chosen weapon, the rifle, with them into what was known as the Kentucky wilderness; hence its name. Immigrant gunsmiths and those of German and Swiss descent settled in Lancaster County, making it the rifle-making center of the colonies. These men soon became some of the most versatile artisans in the area.
[/font][/color]
Though the American gun-smith was an amazing craftsman, keep in mind that he learned his skill from European masters who had spent years in apprenticeship. German and Swiss firearms were considered superior, and the American rifle was derived and enhanced from these weapons. The European rifle was developed as a sporting piece for aristocrats and noble huntsmen before the military took an interest. Among the first to develop rifle companies were the Hessians, particularly Jaegers, who carried short, large-bore rifled guns, which were far different from the highly effective American rifle with its longer barrel and smaller caliber which made them more deadly accurate.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 13, 2022, 09:51:19 PM

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1514409087911481354?s=20&t=z80zxBctcVmBxSMszWYojQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on April 14, 2022, 07:42:34 AM

I’m calling BS on the previous post of killing the general at 300 yards with an open sighted musket rifle. Maybe I’m just ignorant to the capabilities of those rifles and their marksmen but it just doesn’t seem viable to my untrained eye. 

Could have just been a lucky shot, or could have just been a coincidence that somebody else shot him about the same time. 300 yards with no scope?  Now if he had some kind of early scope then maybe. But I didn’t think those were availability until the late 1800’s. But then again I’m not very knowledgeable about early arms and their capabilities. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2022, 08:08:47 AM

They would have had open sights.  But Marines train with open sights at 300 yards, albeit with M16s.  It would be a lucky shot with a rifle.  

Few in the American army had rifles back then, they were more prominent in the South, but few larger battles were fought in the South.  The major battles were fought in the "old fashioned way", which is why folks like von Steuben were important.  The British were adept at flanking moves which Washington often missed.  It's curious as he should have had a better knowledge of terrain than the British.

Anyway, this is why I stated it's largely a myth that most battles in this war were fought hiding behind trees and rocks.  Some were, and some deteriorated into that as troops fled the scene, but MOST were pretty standard affairs.  The Continental Army was trained to fight this way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 14, 2022, 08:58:41 AM

The ones that DID primary fight from behind cover were the Militia. They were woodsmen and frontier men that had been living in the wilderness and had learned a lot from the indians. They saw the futility of trying to stand toe to toe with the British and didn't subscribe to the notion of war being fought as gentlemen. They understood that war is hell and that bringing hell to your enemy is the best way to win it. 

However, you are correct that the regular army still chose to fight battles the same way the European countries had been fighting it, standing in lines and firing volleys into their opponent also standing in line while keeping officers "off limits" to the bloodshed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2022, 09:05:37 AM

The militia largely fought beside the Continental Army, or in smaller battles (some of which were significant, but with small numbers).  The militia largely also had smoothbores ineffective at any range.  The way they were used at Cowpens was interesting, have them stand and deliver one or two volleys and then retreat.  

The larger battles, and none were relatively large, were fought the standard way.  That is why I said in larger battles, the image of clever Rebels fighting behind rocks and trees is largely a myth.  It happened, as exceptions, but it was not the norm.

The tactics in the US Civil War remained the same initially until both sides largely had rifled muskets and Minie balls, and they STILL fought in lines and with formations attacking often as not, with dire results.  You can't march a mile into rifle fire with anything like near equal numbers.  It's a matter of math.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 14, 2022, 09:22:17 AM

The maximum effective range of an m16, which is just a rifle, is 850 yards.  The old known distance range for qualifying went to 500 yards. 

I watched a SF dude in Eastern Africa ripping down guys on a roof 900 yards away one afternoon.  He was firing a colt H-Bar version of the ar-15/m-16... he did this freehand, as in standing nonchalantly... my partner and I were trying to get on target for the same target- following stupid procedure of identifying the target, ranging the target, azimuth to the target, plotting the target on a map, THEN asking to compromise authority (engage the target). This dude just walked up, we pointed them out to him, and he started knocking them over.

Some of the ranges with today's systems are fantastical.  The furthest I've ever shot was 1100 yards.  I've never had reason to try any further.  Some, now, are reaching over 3000m (that's meters) regularly.  There is a shot recorded now in excess of 4k meters.  I mean, with all the dope adjustments (ranging windage elevation and ballistics considerations) at that freaking range you literally have to take curvature of the earth into consideration. 

Quick tale: a bunch of tali's stood atop a ridge some 2800m from the position of a patrol of mixed bag ASF, squeals, and a pair of Canadian snipers.  They were literally flipping the finger and mooning them.  Both teams could clearly see the other and they were antagonizing each other... night was setting in.  The Canadian team broke out there new system, which at the time was still in R&D, which was a 410chyane.  It has a scope mounted atop it that wires into a computer the observer wears in his ruck.  He makes adjustments, or better said "approves" dope adjustments the computer offers.  The computer reads wind speed at the shooters position, at the ballistic "maximum ordinance" (highest point bullet reaches enroute to target), and at the target.  It registers humidity and temperature (every 20% increase in relative humidity lowers the impact a MoA and every 20 degree increase in temperature raises the impact a MoA).. all of this is done real quick like.  The "scope" also records the shot... and that is where and why hilarity ensued...

The tali started falling over.  They were watching the team engage them but they just couldn't grasp the shots could be those and frombthat distance.. instead they started scanning the sky- standing there dumb like looking to the clouds as if they were concealing CAS... but nope... while they looked up the Canadians selected another target and dropped them. 

The story reminds me of another I'll quickly share:

First gulf war... an American F/A18 on the approach with a cowboy at the stick.. an Iraqi military facility in the open desert.  The bird coming in nap of the earth (really really low) and setting free a rocket... the rocket had a camera... as the rocket approaches an Iraqi officer opens the door and starts to step out, and sees the rocket coming at him from some distance.... his response, reflexively no doubt, was to jump back inside and slam the door.  My guess is he didn't make it. 

Dark humor.. sue me.  Life does that to some.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2022, 09:49:52 AM

Corolis effects start to be important over 1000 meters.

I just reread for the nth time Stephen Hunter's novel "Point of Impact", on which the movie "Shooter" was rather loosely based.

Fun read.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 14, 2022, 10:04:43 AM

i like stephen hunter's books... dirty white boys is fantastic.  the Dunn's and Pile's are a constant cascading characters set in his stuff. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2022, 10:12:17 AM

I think I've read every one of his books.  Same with Bernard Cornwell and a few others.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 14, 2022, 10:20:16 AM

speaking of authors writing fiction you wouldn't expect to be really really good... when reading this series this passage stopped me cold and i read it again and again... 

guess the author?  it'll likely startle you to find out who it is... 

Quote

“So do we pass the ghosts that haunt us later in our lives; they sit undramatically by the roadside like poor beggars, and we see them only from the corners of our eyes, if we see them at all. The idea that they have been waiting there for us rarely if ever crosses our minds. Yet they do wait, and when we have passed, they gather up their bundles of memory and fall in behind, treading in our footsteps and catching up, little by little.”

and yet another, taken from a sci-fi book I can't remember the title or author, and very little of the story itself... I was likely 10 to 12, and this passage also stopped me cold- out of context it has greatly impacted much of my thought process throughout life: 

Quote

"no law written by man which contradicts the laws of nature (God) will stand through the test of time."

funny how little pebbles like that make great big craters when they land just right. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2022, 10:53:33 AM

The latter sounds like Heinlein, he always included a lot of social commentary.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2022, 11:19:45 AM

Cadillac CTS-V Wagon Is Our Bring a Trailer Pick of the Day (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a39689773/2012-cadillac-cts-v-wagon-bring-a-trailer-auction/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&fbclid=IwAR3kJ2Pk8wi1rSykNnZm1toZ_l5vDbdgXiBujsNkCOnphTXnFT_B2Xu_9is)

I recall some years back our local Caddy dealer had two of these on the showroom with manual transmissions on sale for a song.  I pretty much knew they would go up in price, I just didn't have the extra cash at the time.  This is one of the craziest cars ever made in my opinion.  Of course, buying Apple stock would have been a far better investment.

Bring a Trailer's highest winning bid for a CTS-V happened last year, when a 2011 CTS-V wagon with just 7400 miles sold for $96,500 (https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2011-cadillac-cts-v-wagon-17/).

(https://i.imgur.com/ynE3Id0.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 14, 2022, 11:24:17 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 14, 2022, 08:08:47 AM

They would have had open sights.  But Marines train with open sights at 300 yards, albeit with M16s.  It would be a lucky shot with a rifle. 

Few in the American army had rifles back then, they were more prominent in the South, but few larger battles were fought in the South.  The major battles were fought in the "old fashioned way", which is why folks like von Steuben were important.  The British were adept at flanking moves which Washington often missed.  It's curious as he should have had a better knowledge of terrain than the British.

Anyway, this is why I stated it's largely a myth that most battles in this war were fought hiding behind trees and rocks.  Some were, and some deteriorated into that as troops fled the scene, but MOST were pretty standard affairs.  The Continental Army was trained to fight this way.

More bollocks you make me sleepy,read this - it's in English. I accept a lot of what you say at face value this isn't one of them.

https://www.battlefields.org/learn/articles/british-tactics-and-conflicting-strategies-executing-american-revolution

In some capacities, the American Revolution was a guerilla war, unlike anything the British Empire had faced up until that point. We must remember that the American forces had the tactical advantage of knowing the country better than their British counterparts. The Fabian strategy of deception and poking and prodding the enemy was accepted by Washington, and guerilla tactics were used to harass British posts and baggage trains wherever possible. An overwhelming majority of the British forces during the war had no prior experience in North America. We can begin to see how this put them at a disadvantage of not knowing the country and having to rely on others; sometimes, local citizens or Native American parties would assist, while other times reports were made from defectors and deserters. Regardless, the British had limited means of accessing the country. Despite seizing much of the existing surveys and maps of the continent, they found themselves having to create many more as they discovered the terrain in real time. This uncertainty also helps explain how tactics used to turn civilians into steadfast loyalists most likely undermined their cause. Because of a combination of hostile conditions, and being viewed as an occupying force, we often overlook the anxiety many within the British ranks felt as they resented the reception they received by portions of the American population.

We must then conclude that both strategy and the tactics used to enforce it were at odds with the realities on the ground.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 14, 2022, 11:48:16 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 14, 2022, 08:08:47 AM

Few in the American army had rifles back then, they were more prominent in the South, but few larger battles were fought in the South.  The major battles were fought in the "old fashioned way", which is why folks like von Steuben were important.  The British were adept at flanking moves which Washington often missed.  It's curious as he should have had a better knowledge of terrain than the British.

Links were left and they weren't pulled from my backside. Oh really then how did the colonists defeat the world's largest empires military at the time?Sling shots,clubs,axes,spears hookers spreading VD,poisoned cider? Read those links,they are not bullshit because you have Your mind made up or can't admit you may be slightly mistaken.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2022, 12:04:08 PM

I reached my conclusion based on serious readings and showed my "links" to support my conclusions.  We can agree to disagree, but most of the major battles were fought using traditional tactics.  Such tactics are effectively mandated when one uses smoothbores.

The British used rifles in the Napoleonic wars with companies wearing dark green jackets.  They were elite soldiers used sparingly and in small numbers.  Napoleon didn't believe in rifles because they are so slow to load, and he had conscripts to a significant degree, and tactics to match the training of his armies.

One can of course review the major battles of the Revolutionary War and see "lines of battle" and flanking moves in MOST of them.  Brandywine is one example, there are more of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2022, 12:10:17 PM

Suggestions for further reading:

• Jeremy Black, Warfare in the Eighteenth Century (London, 1999).
• Henry B. Carrington, Battles of the American Revolution (New York, 1887).
• Walter Edgar, Partisans and Redcoat: The Southern Conflict That Turned the Tide of the American Revolution (New York, 2001).
• Claude H. Van Tyne, The War of Independence (New York, 1929).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 14, 2022, 12:36:25 PM

I'm not reading whole books,when i've watched hours of Docu that echoed what i just dug up.Save my reading for WW2 mostly,haven't gotten to the Pacific yet and i know that's where your dad was.So was an Uncle of mine(Navy) and he died when i was 12 and I never had a chance to Q & A him.Oh one last thing - You Are Wrong :043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2022, 12:38:23 PM

ESPN updates Football Power Index ahead of 2022 season; 9 SEC teams in top 25 (saturdaydownsouth.com) (https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/espn-updates-football-power-index-ahead-of-2022-season-9-sec-teams-in-top-25/?fbclid=IwAR0eIgMyeX71zuajCL96S0cYrJ7sVhXhkfq4oD4cAqvatrGriiQmJG4tUBk)

As I LOVE pointless lists, I'm posting this one, and as usual it contains some ringers to get clicks.

• Alabama
• Ohio State
• Georgia
• Clemson
• Notre Dame
• Texas
• Michigan
• Oklahoma
• Pitt
• Auburn
• LSU
• Penn State
• Oklahoma State
• Texas A&M
• Utah
• Michigan State
• Ole Miss
• Miami
• Baylor
• Kentucky
• Wisconsin
• North Carolina
• Oregon
• Mississippi State
• Florida

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2022, 12:41:17 PM

I find books, generally speaking, more authoritative than most documentaries.  The added advantage is one can contrast and compare the works of different authors, they each bring their own version of reality to it.  For example, one can read Liddell Hart's History of the Second World War and get some misapprehensions, in my view, not really born out in other studies, but parallel to what Guderian claimed in his autobiography, and curiously the two collaborated to a degree.

But that's just me of course, I'd rather read than watch TV.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 14, 2022, 12:47:49 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 14, 2022, 12:38:23 PM

ESPN updates Football Power Index ahead of 2022 season; 9 SEC teams in top 25 (saturdaydownsouth.com) (https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/espn-updates-football-power-index-ahead-of-2022-season-9-sec-teams-in-top-25/?fbclid=IwAR0eIgMyeX71zuajCL96S0cYrJ7sVhXhkfq4oD4cAqvatrGriiQmJG4tUBk)

As I LOVE pointless lists, I'm posting this one, and as usual it contains some ringers to get clicks.

• Alabama
• Ohio State
• Georgia
• Clemson
• Notre Dame
• Texas
• Michigan
• Oklahoma
• Pitt
• Auburn
• LSU
• Penn State
• Oklahoma State
• Texas A&M
• Utah
• Michigan State
• Ole Miss
• Miami
• Baylor
• Kentucky
• Wisconsin
• North Carolina
• Oregon
• Mississippi State
• Florida

Horns at 6th

What have they been smokin

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2022, 12:52:57 PM

Get clicks from a large long suffering fan base by ranking them at 6.  Auburn at 10 is about the same.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 14, 2022, 01:02:55 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 14, 2022, 12:38:23 PM

ESPN updates Football Power Index ahead of 2022 season; 9 SEC teams in top 25 (saturdaydownsouth.com) (https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/espn-updates-football-power-index-ahead-of-2022-season-9-sec-teams-in-top-25/?fbclid=IwAR0eIgMyeX71zuajCL96S0cYrJ7sVhXhkfq4oD4cAqvatrGriiQmJG4tUBk)

As I LOVE pointless lists, I'm posting this one, and as usual it contains some ringers to get clicks.

• Alabama
• Ohio State
• Georgia
• Clemson
• Notre Dame
• Texas
• Michigan
• Oklahoma
• Pitt
• Auburn
• LSU
• Penn State
• Oklahoma State
• Texas A&M
• Utah
• Michigan State
• Ole Miss
• Miami
• Baylor
• Kentucky
• Wisconsin
• North Carolina
• Oregon
• Mississippi State
• Florida

How do you define ringers to get clicks?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 14, 2022, 01:10:07 PM

Horns have a coach that so far has been a complete dud  

and a new QB

I doubt we win 7 games

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2022, 01:10:31 PM

Inserting a team with a large fan base and relatively poor prospects in the top ten should do it.

(https://i.imgur.com/A1EFXU0.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 14, 2022, 01:13:45 PM

Those old gas pumps would be worth a hefty sum to some one's retro decor

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 14, 2022, 01:27:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 14, 2022, 01:10:31 PM

Inserting a team with a large fan base and relatively poor prospects in the top ten should do it.

(https://i.imgur.com/A1EFXU0.png)

I mean, the list is just what a formula burped out. So no one is going in and saying “let’s just toss in Texas high.”

(there are factors that push Texas high, and we can debate if some of those factors, principally recruiting talent, are overstated)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 14, 2022, 03:20:10 PM

Elon Musk rejected Twitter board seat- which would’ve capped his ownership of Twitter at 14.9%.

Musk has now has put in an offer to buy the remaining 90% of Twitter he doesn’t own- for $43 billion in cash- at $54/share and take the company private. A nearly 40% premium above where the stock was when Musk’s investment became known. Twitter board 100% has a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders to take that deal. Twitter in reality is a dogshit company that doesn’t really make money- it has lost far more money in it’s existence than it’s ever made- and if they don’t take this deal and Musk decides to dump his stock at fire sale prices it’ll cause the stock to crater and he can just go back and buy up even bigger controlling stake at a discount.

Dear god I love that guy. He’s got them by the balls and they’re f**ked. F**k Twitter. If only he could do that to Facebook and Google. Unfortunately Facebook and Google (especially Google) have MUCH higher marketcaps and share prices- because they uh…unlike Twitter they both actually make ridiculous amounts of money and are highly profitable and are not putrid dogshit companies that are continually in the red like Twitter. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 14, 2022, 03:27:25 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 14, 2022, 01:13:45 PM

Those old gas pumps would be worth a hefty sum to some one's retro decor

I make them.  They're actually designed to hide/house chargers... we call them clyffewardens.  A twist on words- wardenclyffe actually being Nikolas ranch in NY state... warden also being a protector of sorts.  

Theyre scheduled for market early summer.  

This is the first time I've spoken of them publicly.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 14, 2022, 03:27:46 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 14, 2022, 03:20:10 PM

Elon Musk rejected Twitter board seat- which would’ve capped his ownership of Twitter at 14.9%.

Musk has now has put in an offer to buy the remaining 90% of Twitter he doesn’t own- for $43 billion in cash- at $54/share and take the company private. A nearly 40% premium above where the stock was when Musk’s investment became known. Twitter board 100% has a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders to take that deal. Twitter in reality is a dogshit company that doesn’t really make money- it has lost far more money in it’s existence than it’s ever made- and if they don’t take this deal and Musk decides to dump his stock at fire sale prices it’ll cause the stock to crater and he can just go back and buy up even bigger controlling stake at a discount.

Dear god I love that guy. He’s got them by the balls and they’re f**ked. F**k Twitter. If only he could do that to Facebook and Google. Unfortunately Facebook and Google (especially Google) have MUCH higher marketcaps and share prices- because they uh…unlike Twitter they both actually make ridiculous amounts of money and are highly profitable and are not putrid dogshit companies that are continually in the red like Twitter. 

also either FB or Google or both have special stock not publicly traded owned by the head guys which protects from a takeover

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 14, 2022, 03:51:47 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 14, 2022, 03:27:46 PM

also either FB or Google or both have special stock not publicly traded owned by the head guys which protects from a takeover

Some speciation it might just be a pump and dump by him. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 14, 2022, 04:42:04 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 14, 2022, 03:51:47 PM

Some speciation it might just be a pump and dump by him.

Yeah, OK. Except for the fact that’s not what a pump and dump is. At all. Any speculation by anyone as such is just a talking head idiot talking out of their ass who doesn’t know what a pump and dump actually is.

He’s trying to take over the company. Clearly. The board seat Twitter offered him came with strings attached that he could not own more than 14.9% of the company. He clearly wants control, otherwise he’d have taken the board seat. And the Twitter board has a fiduciary responsibility to it’s share holders to take that deal. Period. Twitter not taking the deal will immediately lead to share price falling and if Musk really decides to give them a giant middle finger he could firesale nearly 10% of all that bullshit companies shares outstanding and crater the share price if he wanted.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 14, 2022, 04:57:16 PM

And here I thought “ pump and dump” was referring to something in college days….:72:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 14, 2022, 04:59:17 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 14, 2022, 04:42:04 PM

Yeah, OK. Except for the fact that’s not what a pump and dump is. At all. Any speculation by anyone as such is just a talking head idiot talking out of their ass who doesn’t know what a pump and dump actually is.

He’s trying to take over the company. Clearly. The board seat Twitter offered him came with strings attached that he could not own more than 14.9% of the company. He clearly wants control, otherwise he’d have taken the board seat. And the Twitter board has a fiduciary responsibility to it’s share holders to take that deal. Period. Twitter not taking the deal will immediately lead to share price falling and if Musk really decides to give them a giant middle finger he could firesale nearly 10% of all that bullshit companies shares outstanding and crater the share price if he wanted.

Sorry I spoke ill of the cool member of the elite. Everything he’s doing is good and just and will be bad for just the right people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 14, 2022, 04:59:55 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 14, 2022, 04:57:16 PM

And here I thought “ pump and dump” was referring to something in college days….:72:

Or HS days, or mid-20s, or …

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 14, 2022, 05:36:24 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 14, 2022, 04:42:04 PM

Yeah, OK. Except for the fact that’s not what a pump and dump is. At all. Any speculation by anyone as such is just a talking head idiot talking out of their ass who doesn’t know what a pump and dump actually is.

He’s trying to take over the company. Clearly. The board seat Twitter offered him came with strings attached that he could not own more than 14.9% of the company. He clearly wants control, otherwise he’d have taken the board seat. And the Twitter board has a fiduciary responsibility to it’s share holders to take that deal. Period. Twitter not taking the deal will immediately lead to share price falling and if Musk really decides to give them a giant middle finger he could firesale nearly 10% of all that bullshit companies shares outstanding and crater the share price if he wanted.

And then buy his interest back at the new, lower price, which is what some people are speculating is the intent.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 14, 2022, 07:48:08 PM

So predictable- the left and their mouthpiece media are so up in arms over this.  

They are so truly afraid of free speech as it will end their monopoly in the digital narrative.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 14, 2022, 08:00:03 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 14, 2022, 07:48:08 PM

So predictable- the left and their mouthpiece media are so up in arms over this. 

They are so truly afraid of free speech as it will end their monopoly in the digital narrative. 

Yep

Im really enjoying it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 14, 2022, 09:35:38 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 14, 2022, 04:59:17 PM

Sorry I spoke ill of the cool member of the elite. Everything he’s doing is good and just and will be bad for just the right people.

Oh, sorry that Elon Musk isn’t a card carrying member of the “liberal” tribe that you seem to adore so much.

Musk is without question the single most important human being on planet earth- just based on what he’s done in space exploration, autonomous driving, and electrification of vehicles alone- and he’s about to save free speech to boot. The guy is SO f**ing money- it’s ridiculous.

Shit libs losing their god damn f***king minds that Musk is going to buy Twitter,  fire everyone there, reinstate President Trump and open it up to free speech and I’m loving every f***king minute of it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 14, 2022, 09:40:22 PM

this is literally the best account on Twitter. The hypocrisy and the self-owns of the corporate media and shitlibs is never ending….. :043:

https://twitter.com/DefiantLs/status/1514738236207337477?s=20&t=B4_r_8wC7grPoRu_8d_AJg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 14, 2022, 10:03:58 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 14, 2022, 09:35:38 PM

Oh, sorry that Elon Musk isn’t a card carrying member of the “liberal” tribe that you seem to adore so much.

Musk is without question the single most important human being on planet earth- just based on what he’s done in space exploration, autonomous driving, and electrification of vehicles alone- and he’s about to save free speech to boot. The guy is SO f**ing money- it’s ridiculous.

Shit libs losing their god damn f***king minds that Musk is going to buy Twitter,  fire everyone there, reinstate President Trump and open it up to free speech and I’m loving every f***king minute of it. 

MDot, I don't give an ounce of a shit about the man's politics. Just amused by the elite worship. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 14, 2022, 10:11:31 PM

Alas, we lack a party that backs a wide degree of free speech. But, we also have a shortage of citizens who stand by it. 

Maybe some day. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 14, 2022, 10:33:56 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 14, 2022, 10:11:31 PM

Alas, we lack a party that backs a wide degree of free speech. But, we also have a shortage of citizens who stand by it.

Maybe some day.

no problem with free speech on the right

its the left thats scared to death over this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 14, 2022, 11:00:21 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 14, 2022, 10:03:58 PM

MDot, I don't give an ounce of a shit about the man's politics. Just amused by the elite worship.

Not sure if you’ve noticed, but I’m typically one that likes to trash elites, because well…they typically deserve it. 

Have to give credit where credit is due. Elon Musk is one of the most important human beings ever to live. Dude is legitimate genius. That term gets thrown around way too much, undeservedly so. I believe firmly that pretty much everyone is born equal. Very select few however are just flat out better and smarter than everyone else. Elon Musk is one of those rare people who just happens to be better than every one else. Jeff Bezos isn’t. Bill Gates isn’t. Steve Jobs wasn’t. Driven people. Gigantic assholes and cutthroat  businessmen, sure. But that’s about where it ends. Musk is so far out ahead and on another level than any of them that he makes them look like chimps.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 14, 2022, 11:10:55 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 14, 2022, 10:33:56 PM

no problem with free speech on the right

its the left thats scared to death over this

We've literally discussed the socialization of a social media company because of actions that are utterly protected by the first amendment. We've discussed legal campaigns aimed at stamping out ideas because we find them grotesque. We've had people explain that using the threat of legal action to chill speech is hunky dory. 

People want the government to step in and do something about speech they don't like, instead of pursuing readily available market solutions. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 14, 2022, 11:13:20 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 14, 2022, 11:00:21 PM

Not sure if you’ve noticed, but I’m typically one that likes to trash elites, because well…they typically deserve it.

Have to give credit where credit is due. Elon Musk is one of the most important human beings ever to live. Dude is legitimate genius. That term gets thrown around way too much, undeservedly so. I believe firmly that pretty much everyone is born equal. Very select few however are just flat out better and smarter than everyone else. Elon Musk is one of those rare people who just happens to be better than every one else. Jeff Bezos isn’t. Bill Gates isn’t. Steve Jobs wasn’t. Driven people. Gigantic assholes and cutthroat  businessmen, sure. But that’s about where it ends. Musk is so far out ahead and on another level than any of them that he makes them look like chimps.

Ahh, so most elites are bad, save for the ones worthy of worship. Got it. Over and out. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 15, 2022, 07:06:24 AM

Russia Russia Russia!!

Tech exec was warned smearing on Trump 'will not fly,' Durham says (nypost.com) (https://nypost.com/2022/04/06/tech-exec-was-warned-smearing-on-trump-will-not-fly-durham-says/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=ncl_amplify&utm_campaign=20220414-icymi_tech_exec_was_warned_dirt_digging_effort_on_trump_will_not_fly_durham_claims&utm_content=ncl-K6F8cVhswp&_nlid=K6F8cVhswp&_nhids=ZEAMUX8lRO)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 15, 2022, 07:14:37 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 15, 2022, 07:06:24 AM

Russia Russia Russia!!

Tech exec was warned smearing on Trump 'will not fly,' Durham says (nypost.com) (https://nypost.com/2022/04/06/tech-exec-was-warned-smearing-on-trump-will-not-fly-durham-says/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=ncl_amplify&utm_campaign=20220414-icymi_tech_exec_was_warned_dirt_digging_effort_on_trump_will_not_fly_durham_claims&utm_content=ncl-K6F8cVhswp&_nlid=K6F8cVhswp&_nhids=ZEAMUX8lRO)

Shocking I tell you!   😂😂

The Dem-Lib- MSM- Twitter false narrative, protected by censorship- was the opposite of the truth.    

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 15, 2022, 07:37:41 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 14, 2022, 11:00:21 PM

Elon Musk is one of the most important human beings ever to live. Dude is legitimate genius.

Off the meds?Ya out did yourself this time, get back to me when Mr Most Important(MMI) can make a car for less than 75,000 K that doesn't have problems and the common folk can afford.I follow Scotty Kilmer a life long car mechanic who has his own YT Segments and MMI gets lampooned with distressing frequency. The bent freak is an idiot savant cyborg. I googled are "Elon's cars crap" and there pages of Yes, Elon Musk is completely full of crap  :D. He hasn't cured cancer,built a longer lasting light bulb, a better burger or even picked up my bar tab - color me not impressed I don't care how much coin he has

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2022, 07:48:07 AM

I don't mind some hero worship of Musk.  He clearly has caused some things to happen, fine, and he's promised a lot more (which didn't), fine.  I personally wouldn't raise him to some demigod status.  It reminds me a bit of these "comparisons" between Edison and Tesla, the latter gets put way up there, mostly because he used to be less well known.  I think he's still fairly less well known, but he's promoted to demigod anyway.

Even Einstein, who I admire quite a bit, made mistakes of course, one rather large one, probably.

Ha, get it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2022, 07:54:44 AM

Why did Putin invade Ukraine now? | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/3269193-why-did-putin-invade-ukraine-now/)

I found this interesting. 


In my view, Putin (https://thehill.com/people/vladimir-putin/) had planned to invade Ukraine for a while and did not wish to complicate what he believed would be an inevitable re-election of Trump by invading Ukraine during Trump’s first term. Instead, Putin always planned to wait for a second term because, right or wrong, he anticipated a more favorable American response from a second Trump administration.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 15, 2022, 08:05:07 AM

https://twitter.com/realDailyWire/status/1514693033056473088?s=20&t=ugTdHyBuaxAb3drIX18SJA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2022, 08:35:01 AM

We all likely follow spring practice to some extent (not so much for me), and the Spring Game has turned into a thing in a lot of places.  These early polls/rankings come out to garner clicks, because that is about all the news there is, aside from portaling.

And there are speculative pieces like this one, I don't fault the author, he had to write something:

Georgia coach Kirby Smart tasked with sustaining championship-level success, building Bulldogs into dynasty - CBSSports.com (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/georgia-coach-kirby-smart-tasked-with-sustaining-championship-level-success-building-bulldogs-into-dynasty/)

Of course it says pretty much what anyone would know anyway.  Holes to fill, uphill, blah blah.  In the world of today, there is no real off season because clicks are needed and folks have to write something.  A quote by Saban spawns entire articles.  And "we" are hungry to read them.  I'd just as soon take the season off for a while, but get caught up in it because clicking is easy.

The Dawgs don't need to be some "dynasty" however defined, they just need to keep doing well and on occasion pieces will fall into place for them.  I doubt we'll ever see another Bama run after Bama drops back a bit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 15, 2022, 08:53:48 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 15, 2022, 07:54:44 AM

Why did Putin invade Ukraine now? | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/3269193-why-did-putin-invade-ukraine-now/)

I found this interesting. 


In my view, Putin (https://thehill.com/people/vladimir-putin/) had planned to invade Ukraine for a while and did not wish to complicate what he believed would be an inevitable re-election of Trump by invading Ukraine during Trump’s first term. Instead, Putin always planned to wait for a second term because, right or wrong, he anticipated a more favorable American response from a second Trump administration.

Wrong. People like to pretend that Trump and Putin liked each other. They didn't - but they DID respect each other, which led to complete inaction during Trump's 4 years.

2014 Putin invades Ukraine and annexes part of it.

2022 Putin invades Ukraine and is destroying it.

Connect the dots.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 15, 2022, 08:58:00 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 15, 2022, 08:53:48 AM

Wrong. People like to pretend that Trump and Putin liked each other. They didn't - but they DID respect each other, which led to complete inaction during Trump's 4 years.

2014 Putin invades Ukraine and annexes part of it.

2022 Putin invades Ukraine and is destroying it.

Connect the dots.

dickface putin has made open statements about reunifying former Russian imperial states since his early days coming to power.  He always wanted Ukraine and was always going to take it.  His bromance with Trump might have altered the timeline but it was never going to change the intent.  The older dickface got, the closer to his inevitable mortal death he became, the more urgent his need to get the band back together.  The average life expectancy of a Russian male is 73 years and dickface knows it.  The clock was ticking and the move had to be made soon.

In short, fuck that guy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 15, 2022, 09:01:32 AM

You could have skipped everything and just typed the last part. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2022, 09:03:01 AM

The weather here today is about as perfect as weather can be.  We get some rain for the weekend, which is OK, plants need it.

Putin seems to be unpopular with posters here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 15, 2022, 09:06:42 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 15, 2022, 07:48:07 AM

Even Einstein, who I admire quite a bit, made mistakes of course, one rather large one, probably.

Which one was that? Asking for a friend

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 15, 2022, 09:11:05 AM

Tesla was crazy, out there.  But he was right about AC, and Edison was wrong.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2022, 11:22:19 AM

Tesla was right about some things, and Edison was wrong about some things.

Einstein was PROBABLY wrong about quantum mechanics.  Cute term.  At least he battled against it versus Bohr et al.  Bohr basically has prevailed, though it is very possible Einstein was right at a deeper level and QM is not the end of the line.  I'm uncertain about that.  Ha.

Einstein also inserted a "cosmological constant" in his theory of General Relativity, he called that his greatest mistake.  Now, yet again, it may turn out there is a such a thing in a different form.  But his theory predicted the Big Bang and black holes and universal expansion, but he inserted that correction because he couldn't bring himself to believe the implications.  Oops.

Nonetheless, the Theory of GR is one of the greatest in all of science, a masterpiece of intuitive thinking and hard math.  Einstein fairly often resorted to other to aid with the math.  And what he did in 1905 is really evidence for aliens in my view.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2022, 11:52:29 AM

Georgia Tech project to modernize section of historic football stadium | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/georgia-tech-football-bobby-dodd-stadium-development-project)

It is nice that Tech is upgrading the appearance of part of our stadium in Atlanta for their wobbling football program to play every other year a scrimmage game for us.

(https://i.imgur.com/0iZFF4r.png)

Georgia Tech project to modernize section of historic football stadium | Urbanize Atlanta (https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/georgia-tech-football-bobby-dodd-stadium-development-project)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2022, 02:32:01 PM

U.S. Wind Surpassed Both Coal And Nuclear Power For The First Time Ever | OilPrice.com (https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/US-Wind-Surpassed-Both-Coal-And-Nuclear-Power-For-The-First-Time-Ever.html?fbclid=IwAR3pt_0NARxTG65ZPPHUfLMN5KFac-VKzk6zxUz0040vOnEQznQ1unIYraA)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 15, 2022, 02:41:37 PM

I thought windmills cause cancer...?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 15, 2022, 02:46:02 PM

Kill birds,warm the ground and I guess are expensive to replace the turbine-generators

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 15, 2022, 02:46:56 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 15, 2022, 08:53:48 AM

Wrong. People like to pretend that Trump and Putin liked each other. They didn't - but they DID respect each other, which led to complete inaction during Trump's 4 years.

2014 Putin invades Ukraine and annexes part of it.

2022 Putin invades Ukraine and is destroying it.

Connect the dots.

This is about as deep as one side gets.  I got 2 things here.  Connect them.  Boom!
You used to not embarrass yourself here.  Now it's gotten to be pretty common.  
Sad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 15, 2022, 02:48:18 PM

On Musk:  it's not that he's a genius or a deity or a jackwagon, it's that he works long and hard.  He's an able-minded guy who works long and hard on big problems and big ideas.

The world benefits from guys like that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 15, 2022, 02:52:16 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 15, 2022, 02:48:18 PM

On Musk:  it's not that he's a genius or a deity or a jackwagon, it's that he works long and hard.  He's an able-minded guy who works long and hard on big problems and big ideas.

The world benefits from guys like that.

I hate it when you say something that I agree with
it hurts

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2022, 02:58:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 15, 2022, 02:48:18 PM

On Musk:  it's not that he's a genius or a deity or a jackwagon, it's that he works long and hard.  He's an able-minded guy who works long and hard on big problems and big ideas.

The world benefits from guys like that.

That's about as spot on as any post here in memory.  He's also "loud", which is fine I guess, but polarizing for some.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 15, 2022, 03:21:43 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 15, 2022, 02:58:26 PM

That's about as spot on as any post here in memory.  He's also "loud", which is fine I guess, but polarizing for some.

Its going to be interesting to see how he reacts to the poison pill plan twitter has implemented

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on April 15, 2022, 03:39:36 PM

People throw around the term disrupter too often.  If Elon Musk captained a bowling team they'd be the Disrupters.   The guy is constantly disrupting things.   I'm not exactly a disciple but really admire his ability to impact society.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2022, 03:51:36 PM

Yeah, some of his ideas have apparently come to naught, but some have.  The roofing tiles that cost the same as a roof was one example.  

There are some folks in history I really admire, but they all had "foibles".  Robert Burns Woodward was a real mensch, as was Ruchard Feynman, in the science fields, for Americans.  Feynman's lectures are on Utube and are brilliant.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 15, 2022, 05:36:53 PM

Quote

The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing. Face your fears, take risks and see the positive outcome.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=112338278112086&id=105820732097174&__cft__[0]=AZW7k3WIZofatjbILscEutN5jIXnVf31j5KcUpnJxSjGKMNyLr8WAEErDioOZx_--hL2dAPAji9_gji9HLMQ-FhAE_6EmLMIRK08bOLImiAXjW_jLQyeQt8kGlceFuiIiGeYDxeliEzzGP5_N5Qb3h_n&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 15, 2022, 06:15:32 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 15, 2022, 02:48:18 PM

On Musk:  it's not that he's a genius or a deity or a jackwagon, it's that he works long and hard.  He's an able-minded guy who works long and hard on big problems and big ideas.

The world benefits from guys like that.

I think genius is a fair label for that guy. The guy has completely revolutionized banking/payments via internet (PayPal), space travel (SpaceX), energy (solar & storage), autonomous driving (Tesla), and electric vehicles (Tesla).

The guy does not get ENOUGH credit for what he's accomplished. He isn't some hack like Bill Gates who stole someone else's ideas and IP and used cut-throat business tactics to monopolize and crush his competition. He isn't some dweeb like Bezos whose entire big idea was.. "hey let's sell stuff online and ship it to people's homes....and destroy retail in the process!" WHOA! BIG IDEA! What a game changer! Let's make Americans more f**ing fat and lazy than they already are and unable to leave their homes- and let them sit on their fat f**king asses even more and not have to leave the house just to have more junk and bullsh*t they don't really need or even really want shipped to their door steps. HOW GROUNDBREAKING AND CUTTING EDGE!

Musk has fundamentally changed the world in real and important ways- and many of those changes are still in their infancy. And they would not have happened without him or his brain power.

PayPal literally started online banking/payments- which obviously has revolutionized the world. Only four entities in world history have ever achieved human spaceflights. USSR/Russia, China, the United States......and SpaceX. SpaceX has revolutionized and continues to revolutionize space flight and exploration by dramatically reducing the cost per kg of launching rockets into space- something like 97% cheaper via the reusable rockets which can take off and then land successfully in order to be reused. Insane. No private space exploration entity is even remotely close. Bezos' and Branson's operations are a f***king pathetic JOKE compared to SpaceX.

Then there's Tesla- which has a GIGANTIC lead on the field in terms of autonomous driving- they have over 3.5 billion real world miles of autonomous driving data- no competitor is even f**ing a little bit close. Vast majority of their competitors "miles" are bullsh*t worthless simulations. On top of that- not to mention- when it comes to computing power- none of Tesla's competitors have self-driving silicon chips anywhere remotely close to advanced as the ones Tesla has been building themselves. Oh and then let's talk about electric vehicles themselves....which would not remotely be anywhere near as close to where they are without him and Tesla. Tesla now manufactures over 1 million EV's a year- and it's an American automotive company which started from scratch and succeeded- this hasn't been done in oh....over a hundred plus years.

The man is just not from this planet. Most iconic African-American ever. For sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 15, 2022, 06:34:45 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 15, 2022, 02:46:56 PM

This is about as deep as one side gets.  I got 2 things here.  Connect them.  Boom!
You used to not embarrass yourself here.  Now it's gotten to be pretty common. 
Sad.

you still believe that Russiagate hoax? Sad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 15, 2022, 06:36:11 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 15, 2022, 03:51:36 PM

Yeah, some of his ideas have apparently come to naught, but some have.  The roofing tiles that cost the same as a roof was one example. 

There are some folks in history I really admire, but they all had "foibles".  Robert Burns Woodward was a real mensch, as was Ruchard Feynman, in the science fields, for Americans.  Feynman's lectures are on Utube and are brilliant.

the roofing tiles are real. you can order them. I put them on a home. They take forever to get and cost a f**kload, but you can absolutely get them. 

Musk is doing like a million different things all at once- and all of them are basically brand new and never been done before. He over promises- but almost always delivers- even if the timeline isn't quite what he says it will be. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 15, 2022, 07:24:18 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 15, 2022, 06:34:45 PM

you still believe that Russiagate hoax? Sad.

You're a leftfielder.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 16, 2022, 06:54:42 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 15, 2022, 02:46:56 PM

This is about as deep as one side gets.  I got 2 things here.  Connect them.  Boom!
You used to not embarrass yourself here.  Now it's gotten to be pretty common. 
Sad.

Who was VPOTUS in 2014, during Putin's last invasion?

Who is POTUS in 2022, during the current invasion?

The guy who is compromised in Ukraine, that's who. It's sad that I had to connect those two dots for you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2022, 07:46:14 AM

I don't agree with the high level of adulation Musk gets from some.  I don't view him negatively, I just personally don't put him on some pedestal with bold font.  The autonomous driving thing is coming, rather quickly, and a lot of players are in the game with systems that have pluses and minuses of course.

Tesla Owner Tries Cadillac Super Cruise, Is It Better Than Autopilot? (motor1.com) (https://www.motor1.com/features/537634/tesla-owner-tries-cadillac-supercruise/)

And yes, I know Super Cruise relies on mapping.

The success of larger companies relies on a number of unnamed employees being creative and working effectively.  The CEO may get notoriety and notice, but he or she is reliant on a lot of folks underneath who don't.  But each person can of course have differing opinions, it's fine.

In other news, the superb weather of yesterday is now pouring rain, which I guess is a needed thing.  I stepped out with my camera and my neighbor's lens to take some photos and discovered too late the battery was dead.  Duh.

This is a tiny "mini-park" being built near us, I think it will be nice when finished.  It's not really a park, more of a widened sidewalk with a lot of trees and changed street.

(https://i.imgur.com/bzOY2YE.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2022, 07:47:55 AM

This spot gets a new "work of art" every few months, I use the term loosely:

(https://i.imgur.com/kBESM3J.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2022, 07:53:03 AM

The lens is a 14-24 mm "fisheye" that isn't quite a fisheye as I think of it.  There is slight curvature at 14 mm, less than I expected.  It was fun shooting with it, it's a Nikkor lens of my neighbor the retired physics dude.  The two towers are condos near us.  We never looked at any there, the decks are more ornamental than usable.  

(https://i.imgur.com/DE0aJRQ.jpg)
The white building below is the Fed which has a small park around it which we enjoy at times.  
(https://i.imgur.com/qihfH04.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2022, 08:37:20 AM

Cadillac Super Cruise Review: Better Than Tesla’s Autopilot (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/cadillac-super-cruise-is-as-good-or-better-than-tesla-autopilot/)

Sort of.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2022, 08:41:01 AM

Tesla Solar Roof Review: 2021 Pros & Cons - Unbound Solar (https://unboundsolar.com/blog/tesla-solar-roof-review)

The promise, which I never believed, is these would cost the same as a regular roof, which is plenty expensive as it is.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2022, 08:47:50 AM

I was interested in the Boring Company's proposals, but perhaps there too there is skepticism about viability.

Urban tunnels by Musk's Boring Co. draw industry skepticism (nbcnews.com) (https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/urban-tunnels-musk-s-boring-co-draw-industry-skepticism-n1269677)

I rather hope this somehow works out to provide cheaper transit options.  We had a long tunnel here drilled to fill an old granite quarry with water for emergency use.  It used a standard drilling gadget.

Atlanta’s Driller Mike completes tunnel linking Bellwood Quarry to water sources - Curbed Atlanta (https://atlanta.curbed.com/2018/10/11/17963322/driller-mike-five-mile-tunnel-bellwood-quarry-hemphill-water)

The lake is full now and the park is open.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 16, 2022, 08:57:52 AM

Musk wanted to build tunnels between ORD and downtown Chicago. That would have been great, but the project got caught up in The Chicago Way and is now dead.


Elon Musk’s high-speed tunnel project is the big loser in Chicago’s race for mayor - The Verge (https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/9/18256604/elon-musk-chicago-mayor-election-tunnel-high-speed-transit)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 16, 2022, 09:02:16 AM

So.. Celebrity. We took a flier when we booked this, and it's only 4 nights.

That's the good part - the only 4 nights. We'll not be using Celebrity in the future. It's all bait and switch with these people. You pay for everything, and even still, with the premium package, they run out or never had stuff you want - like Tito's and such. 

How the hell do you run out of Tito's on DAY TWO out of 4 days? How do you run out of Kendall Jackson Chardonnay on DAY TWO out of 4 days? Today is a sea day, so no stocking happening now.

Back to Azamara, Oceana and Viking for this family.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 16, 2022, 09:12:40 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 15, 2022, 07:24:18 PM

You're a leftfielder.

You're a left out ,Happy Easter

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2022, 09:14:03 AM

The bars seem to the be most popular locale on these cruise ships, along with the pool, which of course has bar service.  When you get the "beverage package", of course, drinks are free, and like at Golden Corral, folks want to "get their money's worth".

We're leaving in a month for the Baltic cruise, should be interesting.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 16, 2022, 09:16:26 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2022, 07:47:55 AM

This spot gets a new "work of art" every few months, I use the term loosely:

(https://i.imgur.com/kBESM3J.jpg)

ya they got thing in Cleveland called The Free Stamp - just never got it.At least the ATL  shuffles the debacles in/out.But evidently our Art Museum is world class,might give it a try some day

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 16, 2022, 09:18:15 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2022, 09:14:03 AM

The bars seem to the be most popular locale on these cruise ships, along with the pool, which of course has bar service.  When you get the "beverage package", of course, drinks are free, and like at Golden Corral, folks want to "get their money's worth".

We're leaving in a month for the Baltic cruise, should be interesting. 

Haven't been real nice to ships up near that locale recently

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2022, 09:20:28 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 16, 2022, 09:18:15 AM

Haven't been real nice to ships up near that locale recently

Do what?  Who or what hasn't been real nice to ships in that locale?

Weather?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 16, 2022, 10:00:09 AM

W/O looking at a map I assumed the Baltic isn't far from the Black sea?Prolly wrong.......today

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2022, 10:05:39 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/IKeyCcn.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2022, 10:09:01 AM

[th]Day[/th] [th]Land Tours And Cruise Ports[/th] [th]Arrive[/th] [th]Depart[/th] [th]Booked[/th]
Wed (https://www.ncl.com/shorex/237618718/47092141/vacation-summary#)	Copenhagen, Denmark	---	5:00 PM	0
Thu (https://www.ncl.com/shorex/237618718/47092141/vacation-summary#)	Berlin (Warnemünde), Germany	6:30 AM	10:00 PM	0
Fri (https://www.ncl.com/shorex/237618718/47092141/vacation-summary#)	At Sea	---	---	0
Sat (https://www.ncl.com/shorex/237618718/47092141/vacation-summary#)	Tallinn, Estonia	8:00 AM	9:00 PM	0
Sun (https://www.ncl.com/shorex/237618718/47092141/vacation-summary#)	Stockholm, Sweden	6:00 PM	Overnight	0
Mon (https://www.ncl.com/shorex/237618718/47092141/vacation-summary#)	Stockholm, Sweden	---	5:00 PM	0
Tue (https://www.ncl.com/shorex/237618718/47092141/vacation-summary#)	Visby, Sweden	8:00 AM	5:00 PM	0
Wed (https://www.ncl.com/shorex/237618718/47092141/vacation-summary#)	Gdynia, Poland	7:00 AM	1:00 PM	0
Thu (https://www.ncl.com/shorex/237618718/47092141/vacation-summary#)	Hamburg (Kiel), Germany	---	6:00 PM	0
Fri (https://www.ncl.com/shorex/237618718/47092141/vacation-summary#)	Copenhagen, Denmark (Flight Departure)	7:00 AM	---

They dropped St. Petersburg and Helsinki.  I don't think we'll be in any danger from the war.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 16, 2022, 01:02:34 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 16, 2022, 06:54:42 AM

Who was VPOTUS in 2014, during Putin's last invasion?

Who is POTUS in 2022, during the current invasion?

The guy who is compromised in Ukraine, that's who. It's sad that I had to connect those two dots for you.

I must have missed the class where we were all taught that correlation is causation.  
The leaps you make siphon respect from your audience.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2022, 04:12:32 PM

Following the 1978 GDay game - a 24-0 Black win - Lewis Grizzard, the Black's honorary HC, was jokingly asked why he didn't go for two points after the final TD and run the score up.

Grizzard quipped he had been too busy hugging the cheerleaders to realize he had scored...


(https://i.imgur.com/3N67IGX.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 16, 2022, 04:27:35 PM

Hugging the cheerleaders IS scoring!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2022, 04:56:03 PM

It is curiously interesting that noted pharmacist & Confederate Colonel John Stith Pemberton (1831-1888), the inventor of Coca-Cola, was severely wounded during the Battle of Columbus, which caused him to endure chronic pain thereafter & resulted in his obsession with inventing various pain-killing medicinal formulæ -- ultimately resulting in the recipe for his celebrated soft drink, which originally contained both cocaine from “coca” leaves & caffeine from “kola” nuts, whereby the drink received the name of “Coca-Cola.”

☞Colonel Pemberton made many health claims for Coca-Cola, marketing it as “delicious,” “refreshing,” “pure joy,” “exhilarating,” & “invigorating,” & touting it as “an invaluable brain tonic” that would cure headaches, relieve exhaustion, & calm nerves.

☞Note: Coca-Cola, now the world’s most popular soft drink, was invented in Atlanta, Georgia by Colonel Pemberton in 1886, about one year after pharmacist Charles C. Alderton (1857-1941) of Waco, Texas invented Dr. Pepper, which is now the most popular soft drink in Texas. Alderton’s soft drink was named in honor of Charles Taylor “Old Doc” Pepper, M.D. (1830-1903) of Virginia, who had served as a surgeon in the Confederate Army during the War Between the States.

☞Note: Colonel John Stith Pemberton, C.S.A. (1831-1888) of Georgia, the inventor of Coca-Cola, is not to be confused with General John Clifford Pemberton, C.S.A. (1814-1881) of Pennsylvania, who resigned his commission in the U.S. Army at the beginning of the War Between the States, & who is noted for his defense of Vicksburg during the “Siege of Vicksburg” in the Summer of 1863.

☞The left-hand photograph depicts an undated portrait of Colonel John S. Pemberton, C.S.A. The right-hand photograph depicts a circa-1890s advertisement for the Confederate colonel’s famous soft drink -- Coca-Cola. 


(https://i.imgur.com/2q1H0ZO.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2022, 04:57:14 PM

When I was a kid, and probably today around here, any soft drink was called "a Coke".  If someone offered you "a Coke" and you said yes,  they reply "What kind?  Sprite?  Nehi Grape?  Mountain Dew?"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2022, 05:11:10 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/caYXOoX.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 16, 2022, 05:19:54 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2022, 04:57:14 PM

When I was a kid, and probably today around here, any soft drink was called "a Coke".  If someone offered you "a Coke" and you said yes,  they reply "What kind?  Sprite?  Nehi Grape?  Mountain Dew?"

same here


we never said soft drink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 16, 2022, 05:23:03 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 16, 2022, 05:19:54 PM

same here


we never said soft drink

I grew up in soda country, then moved to a place some called it pop. 

I don't think it's come up in a while. I guess I'm in coke country now, though it's also sort of Pepsi territory 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 16, 2022, 11:22:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2022, 04:56:03 PM

[img width=500 height=345.99]https://i.imgur.com/2q1H0ZO.png[/img]

Well, it's not lying.
You get a headache going through caffeine withdrawal, so perhaps the caffeine halts headaches, lol.  And if you're exhausted, the sugar rush may help for a short time.
And everything tastes better than what everyone drank back then - room-temp water (prob w/ lead in it).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Kris60 on April 16, 2022, 11:37:41 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 16, 2022, 05:19:54 PM

same here


we never said soft drink

We never said soft drink either but we also didn’t generically call all soda “Coke.”  We generically called it “pop.”  If I was over a friend’s house I might ask what kind of pop they had to drink.  A typical response would be, “Yeah, we have Coke, Pepsi, etc.” If I asked if they had Coke then I was asking specifically about Coke.  And a typical response might be, “No, but we have Pepsi, Sprite, etc”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2022, 07:48:40 AM

For some reason, Coca Cola is pretty prominent around these parts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 17, 2022, 09:16:08 AM

Quote from: Kris60 on April 16, 2022, 11:37:41 PM

We never said soft drink either but we also didn’t generically call all soda “Coke.”  We generically called it “pop.”  If I was over a friend’s house I might ask what kind of pop they had to drink.  A typical response would be, “Yeah, we have Coke, Pepsi, etc.” If I asked if they had Coke then I was asking specifically about Coke.  And a typical response might be, “No, but we have Pepsi, Sprite, etc”

Same up North. It was pop, but you just ordered what you wanted.

In Florida, you just order what you want. Of course, SW FL is mostly Midwest people.

Diet Pepsi is the most popular at restaurants and such, having supplanted Coke.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 17, 2022, 09:17:53 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 16, 2022, 01:02:34 PM

I must have missed the class where we were all taught that correlation is causation. 
The leaps you make siphon respect from your audience.

You must have, because there can be both, none, or one. In this case, both.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 17, 2022, 09:27:29 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 17, 2022, 09:16:08 AM

Same up North. It was pop, but you just ordered what you wanted.

In Florida, you just order what you want. Of course, SW FL is mostly Midwest people.

Diet Pepsi is the most popular at restaurants and such, having supplanted Coke.

Diet Pepsi? 

You trust people with freedom of choice, and then you learn the darkness that truly lurks in our souls

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 17, 2022, 09:34:20 AM

I like it. Decaf for sure. Can't do much caffeine anymore.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2022, 09:36:24 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 17, 2022, 07:48:40 AM

For some reason, Coca Cola is pretty prominent around these parts.

everywhere, everywhere

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 17, 2022, 09:36:27 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 17, 2022, 09:34:20 AM

I like it. Decaf for sure. Can't do much caffeine anymore.

I drink 1 cup of coffee and 1 coke a day

too much caffeine is very bad for you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2022, 09:38:07 AM

2 cups of coffee to get started in the morning

no sugary soft drinks

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2022, 10:01:55 AM

I've read some pretty serious medical commentary about how bad fructose is for our livers and other things.  I have tried to limit my intake as much as possible, and it's not very possible with a normal diet.  I rarely eat dessert and don't put sugar in coffee and don't drink soft drinks.

Fructose is probably not good for us in high levels, and the "High Fructose Corn Syrup" has about the same level as table sugar (sucrose).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2022, 10:20:34 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 17, 2022, 09:36:27 AM

I drink 1 cup of coffee and 1 coke a day

too much caffeine is very bad for you

Could you post all of your medical/health knowledge here, please.  I want to print it out and post it on my fridge.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 17, 2022, 10:26:18 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2022, 10:20:34 AM

Could you post all of your medical/health knowledge here, please.  I want to print it out and post it on my fridge.

youre such a wise ass dip shit

were youborn an asshole or did you just kinda turn into one slowly 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2022, 10:28:15 AM

Diet Pepsi is so bad, it has it's own taste.  
The newer Coke Zero is the best 'normal' tasting diet soda attempt thus far.  Dr Pepper Zero is very good, too.  
The worst diet soda is Diet Mt Dew....it tastes slimy.  
.
I grew up drinking coke...like constantly.  I wish my parents hadn't done that.  Hell, I wish I didn't have 3 square meals a day.  My next-most drank drink was sweet tea....more sugar!  Thanks, fam!
.
In north FL, all plain soda was called coke.  Dr Pepper and clear sodas were called by their names.  
.
Was TAB ever big enough to be the default soda?  It seems like it was a go-to in late 80s TV...more so than in actual daily life.  I'm not old enough to remember.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2022, 10:31:54 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 17, 2022, 10:26:18 AM

youre such a wise ass dip shit

were youborn an asshole or did you just kinda turn into one slowly

My post, as often is the case, was not a shot at you in particular, but an attack on generally-held beliefs that lack any real evidence.
I don't doubt that too much caffeine is bad for you or that consuming it late in the day can harm ease of sleep, but it's about the larger point.  If you posted 10 commonly-held dietary beliefs from whatever decade you're from, probably only 6 are really true or 4 or 1.  Not 10.
.
Love ya, though!!!!  Every roadrunner needs his coyote!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2022, 10:35:04 AM

Our lab in school had a 5 kg jar of powdered caffeine.  If I worked late, I'd unscrew the cap and take a hit.  It worked, just sniffing the cap.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 17, 2022, 11:20:28 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2022, 10:31:54 AM

My post, as often is the case, was not a shot at you in particular, but an attack on generally-held beliefs that lack any real evidence.
I don't doubt that too much caffeine is bad for you or that consuming it late in the day can harm ease of sleep, but it's about the larger point.  If you posted 10 commonly-held dietary beliefs from whatever decade you're from, probably only 6 are really true or 4 or 1.  Not 10.
.
Love ya, though!!!!  Every roadrunner needs his coyote!

if you had led with that instead of burying the lead I probably would have held my fire

your social skills suck

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2022, 11:25:35 AM

Well some people take a broader view of things instead of getting offended right off the bat and throwing a hissy fit. 
I forgive you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 17, 2022, 11:28:20 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2022, 11:25:35 AM

Well some people take a broader view of things instead of getting offended right off the bat and throwing a hissy fit. 
I forgive you.

kiss my ass

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2022, 11:34:18 AM

Rain check?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 17, 2022, 11:49:18 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2022, 11:34:18 AM

Rain check?

instead of spewing forth your wise ass comments in response to anothers post why not show some respect and just state why you do or dont agree

when you come out with your wiseass shit it makes folks a little agitated

you would be better served to avoid that tactic

so we dont think you are a jerk

now I feel much better and yes you can have a rain check to kiss my ass at anytime of your choosing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 17, 2022, 01:01:34 PM

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e3/c0/43/e3c0432c4c2c8ec5c14153eadc0c48dd.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 17, 2022, 01:23:31 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/hWHYAkH.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2022, 04:22:20 PM

Minnesota football made a notable change to its future football schedule. The Golden Gophers announced the team's future matchup at the Cal Golden Bears will now be played in 2025. As a result, Minnesota's matchup at BYU scheduled for 2025 is canceled.

“As a result of this schedule change, Minnesota will no longer play at BYU on Sept. 20, 2025,” Minnesota said in its announcement. “The Gophers were scheduled to host BYU in 2020, but that game was canceled due to the Covid-19 pandemic. Minnesota and BYU do not have any future games scheduled.”

The Golden Gophers still have non-conference clashes with some major programs in the coming years. Minnesota will play Colorado, North Carolina, Cal, and Mississippi State between now and 2027.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 17, 2022, 05:16:59 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 16, 2022, 05:19:54 PM

same here
we never said soft drink

Quote from: Kris60 on April 16, 2022, 11:37:41 PM

We never said soft drink either but we also didn’t generically call all soda “Coke.”  We generically called it “pop.”  

As kids in these parts we called soft drinks "Pop".Then we'd be specific - Coke,Pepsi,7-UP,Dr Pepper,Hires Root Beer,etc

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2022, 05:33:24 PM

as  it should be ...

they are all sodas, pops, or soda pops

ya don't call a pepsi a coke

it ain't right

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 17, 2022, 06:14:19 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 17, 2022, 05:33:24 PM

as  it should be ...

they are all sodas, pops, or soda pops

ya don't call a pepsi a coke

it ain't right

right has nothing to do with it ya dingbat

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2022, 09:42:11 PM

I can't imagine anyone calling it "soft drink."  That's a formal term.  If my friend offered me a "soft drink," I'd look at him funny and we'd never hang out again, because there's probably body parts in his freezer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2022, 06:56:59 AM

I would say soft drink way before soda or pop.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on April 18, 2022, 07:06:03 AM

We all called them cokes here in SE Texas, even though Dr Pepper was our drink of choice. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2022, 07:10:56 AM

I liked sugary tasting drinks as a kid, no surprise, Nehi Grape was my go to.  I might drink 3 Cokes a year now, my wife likes them so we have them around.

I like Coke quite a bit now, didn't as a kid, it's an adult taste I think.

My wife now likes sweet tea, barbecue, cole slaw, and grits.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2022, 07:25:36 AM

A lot of words get written about Spring Games I think, with little tangible meaning, I think.

They have to write something, I don't.  I do, but I don't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2022, 09:40:59 AM

Which major program has had the most head coaches since say 2000?  Tenn and Florida must be up there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 18, 2022, 10:04:16 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 18, 2022, 07:25:36 AM

A lot of words get written about Spring Games I think, with little tangible meaning, I think.

They have to write something, I don't.  I do, but I don't.

The secret of sports is that the build up keeps folks going. Spring games never disappoint. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2022, 11:03:22 AM

Back before the Internet, when Al Gore was in diapers, Spring Games were barely followed by even the most inveterate of fans.  I'm old enough to recall Freshman games.  They garnered more attention, the UGA-Tech game gave proceeds to some charity as I recall.

Spring games, spring practice, signing season, commits, way too early preseason polls ... it's a year round thing, duh.  I have no objection.  It does get a bit silly of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2022, 11:06:18 AM

Georgia football: offensive lineman Amarius Mims to withdraw from portal, stay with Bulldogs (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/Georgia-football-offensive-lineman-Amarius-Mims-to-withdraw-from-portal-stay-with-Bulldogs-186375063/?fbclid=IwAR08fDpPfrlfQutSIGqwC1--07N8KHlLh9hzrt8R_7hrAgf0SnAp93HZO80)

This is interesting.  I surmise he was thinking of leaving because of PT, and reconsidered.  He played in 8 games last year as a FR.  This portal thing, I'm not really a fan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2022, 11:42:53 AM

One of Georgia’s most well known lakes has a murky history - The Signal (georgiastatesignal.com) (https://georgiastatesignal.com/one-of-georgias-most-well-known-lakes-has-a-murky-history/)

Before its completion in 1956, beneath Lake Lanier were several small towns once occupied by farmers. One of the more well-known towns absorbed by the lake is Oscarville. Although portions of old Oscarville, Georgia, still live on the map, the original city survived through lore. Written and oral history did not give the other towns purchased by the state the same grace, and they remain unknown.
Oscarville, located north of the perimeter in Forsyth county, began as a small rural town in 1870. The town was an agricultural marvel because local farmers fought off the boll weevil infestation that tormented Georgia from 1915 to the 1990s (https://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/articles/business-economy/boll-weevil#:~:text=The boll weevil greatly affected,eliminated as an economic) and survived the Great Depression.
In 1940, Oscarville resident Clarence Waldrip detailed in the Atlanta Journal how other farmers in the area replaced cotton with chickens to replenish the soil. The farmers did so by using chicken feces and financially recuperated from the boll weevil infestation. Unfortunately, Oscarville’s status as a farming town made it easier for Atlanta to claim the land with the mayor’s help.
Mayor William B. Hartsfield, the partial namesake of Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport, sought to propel Atlanta into the new age by expanding Atlanta and minimizing urban areas that neighbored the city. As Atlanta grew, so did its need for power, water and to diminish the floods that plagued the city.
In April of 1947, the Industrial Bureau met with the Chamber of Commerce (https://album.atlantahistorycenter.com/digital/collection/p17222coll1/id/7687/rec/13) and decided to greenlight the Buford Dam’s construction. The dam would provide resources to Atlanta and strengthen commerce.
Over two years, Newport Dam Development kept in touch with the court system to ensure the state could seize land from Oscarville residents. They asked all but five residents to forfeit their land to build the Buford Dam. The $1 billion project took four years to complete.
After Lake Lanier first filled in 1959, old Oscarville became virtually non-existent, solely living through old newspaper articles and ghost stories.
Patrick Phillips’ 2016 book, “Blood at the Root: A Racial Cleansing in America (https://www.c-span.org/video/?415231-1/patrick-phillips-discusses-blood-root),” sparked a newfound interest in the long-forgotten Oscarville. Phillips detailed the 1912 lynchings and subsequent riots that began with the sexual assault and murder of a young White woman named Sleety Mae Crow.
Out of fear, roughly 1,100 Black residents fled Oscarville and Forsyth county to escape racialized violence. Despite the town’s agricultural accomplishments, this is the story that defines Oscarville.
With whispers of ghosts and curses, Georgians find Lake Lanier’s position above several old towns to blame for many visitors’ deaths.
Since 1994, nearly 200 people have died at Lake Lanier. Although the lake is 152-feet deep at its lowest point, underwater forests with trees as tall as 60 feet rest at the bottom. The trees, remaining chicken coops, building foundations and cemeteries make it challenging to dredge Lake Lanier for bodies (https://www.ajc.com/news/local/lake-lanier-search-was-dangerous/22wslnm5EV2GoMAf5wTZhP/).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 18, 2022, 11:49:58 AM

Quote from: Gigem on April 18, 2022, 07:06:03 AM

We all called them cokes here in SE Texas, even though Dr Pepper was our drink of choice.

talk about your dingbats  ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 18, 2022, 11:53:24 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 18, 2022, 09:40:59 AM

Which major program has had the most head coaches since say 2000?  Tenn and Florida must be up there.

Solich, Callahan, Pelini, Riley, Frost

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 18, 2022, 11:57:59 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 18, 2022, 11:06:18 AM

Georgia football: offensive lineman Amarius Mims to withdraw from portal, stay with Bulldogs (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/Georgia-football-offensive-lineman-Amarius-Mims-to-withdraw-from-portal-stay-with-Bulldogs-186375063/?fbclid=IwAR08fDpPfrlfQutSIGqwC1--07N8KHlLh9hzrt8R_7hrAgf0SnAp93HZO80)

This is interesting.  I surmise he was thinking of leaving because of PT, and reconsidered.  He played in 8 games last year as a FR.  This portal thing, I'm not really a fan.

Specially when your program gets real good or pretty bad

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 18, 2022, 11:59:49 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 18, 2022, 11:42:53 AM

One of Georgia’s most well known lakes has a murky history - The Signal (georgiastatesignal.com) (https://georgiastatesignal.com/one-of-georgias-most-well-known-lakes-has-a-murky-history/)

We have one with an Erie history

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 18, 2022, 12:20:32 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 18, 2022, 11:59:49 AM

We have one with an Erie history

we have one thats a Travis-ty

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on April 18, 2022, 12:51:21 PM

A&M :Slocum, Fran, Sherman, Sumlin, Fisher.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Kris60 on April 18, 2022, 01:12:44 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 18, 2022, 09:40:59 AM

Which major program has had the most head coaches since say 2000?  Tenn and Florida must be up there.

If you are counting every interim coach who coached one off games in between transitions UF has had 10 since 2000.  That’s a bunch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 18, 2022, 02:36:39 PM

that's a bunch

Huskers had an interim for Solich's 2003 bowl game vs Sparty - Bo

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2022, 02:37:48 PM

I would probably not count one game interim coaches.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 18, 2022, 02:38:43 PM

I wouldn't either

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2022, 02:40:17 PM

UGA had three since 2000, which is probably low end, Richt was there for a while.  Auburn might be "up there" too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2022, 06:33:57 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 18, 2022, 09:40:59 AM

Which major program has had the most head coaches since say 2000?  Tenn and Florida must be up there.

Alvarez, Bielema, Andersen, Chryst.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 19, 2022, 11:04:25 AM

Though BB is rich beyond belief had he not stooped to senseless juvenile pandering and bolt - he'd be in a much better position,professionally speaking IMHO

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2022, 11:38:52 AM

I don't think the current AD liked him at all. Probably be gone now anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 19, 2022, 12:15:19 PM

The libs are going batshit over the Federal mask mandate being lifted

many of them calling for airline boycott

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2022, 12:17:47 PM

• Americans could do their taxes in minutes if the IRS had more funding, a Treasury official said.
• The official cited how Estonians can file returns in five minutes; some Swedes can file via text message.
• The Treasury is pleading with Congress for more IRS funding to help it modernize.

American Taxes Could Be Quick, Free If IRS Was Well-Funded: Treasury (businessinsider.com) (https://www.businessinsider.com/americans-get-do-taxes-quickly-for-free-irs-funded-treasury-2022-4?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sf-insider-main&utm_source=facebook.com&fbclid=IwAR1ddoBrJ3fzOQ_3XdWvGocwKxt4gF-YBPmyeuXdFzWWNrQSIbrbOjCvOHw)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2022, 12:18:15 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 19, 2022, 12:15:19 PM

The libs are going batshit over the Federal mask mandate being lifted

many of them calling for airline boycott

I support their right to boycott air travel 100%.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2022, 12:24:44 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 19, 2022, 12:18:15 PM

I support their right to boycott air travel 100%.

Ditto. Stay off the trains too. Much better for the rest of us.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 19, 2022, 12:55:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 19, 2022, 12:17:47 PM

• Americans could do their taxes in minutes if the IRS had more funding, a Treasury official said.
• The official cited how Estonians can file returns in five minutes; some Swedes can file via text message.
• The Treasury is pleading with Congress for more IRS funding to help it modernize.

American Taxes Could Be Quick, Free If IRS Was Well-Funded: Treasury (businessinsider.com) (https://www.businessinsider.com/americans-get-do-taxes-quickly-for-free-irs-funded-treasury-2022-4?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sf-insider-main&utm_source=facebook.com&fbclid=IwAR1ddoBrJ3fzOQ_3XdWvGocwKxt4gF-YBPmyeuXdFzWWNrQSIbrbOjCvOHw)

so if we fund more money to the IRS it will make my tax filing easier?

back home we call that a shakedown

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2022, 12:56:24 PM

I doubt they would unless it was tightly controlled funding, and even then ....

I had a tussle with them last year, expect the same thing this year too.  I won.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 19, 2022, 03:02:16 PM

Bastards penalized me $600.00+ for not reporting 1- $30.00 share that i didn't know that I had when there was a merger 🤬

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 19, 2022, 03:04:21 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 19, 2022, 03:02:16 PM

Bastards penalized me $600.00+ for not reporting 1- $30.00 share that i didn't know that I had when there was a merger 🤬

I cant imagine that

there must be more to the story

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2022, 03:13:38 PM

I had some stock options which they had E Trade sell, I had no option.  So, I get the usual 1099 from my former company, AND E Trade sent in an IRS 1099 to the IRS, not me, duplicating the sale.  I sold the last batch last month.  E Trade massively screwed up my account when I was forced to open one so I could access said options.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 19, 2022, 03:17:46 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 19, 2022, 03:04:21 PM

I cant imagine that

there must be more to the story

Ya they are F******,I know you are an accountant or were but I'm telling you that's the truth.Remember the old Looney Tunes cartoon where Yosemite Sam twists off - well that was me. I was going to hire an attorney and even the accountant contacted them and they stuck to their guns - and if that chiseler was close enough to get a bead on I'd be on the lamb,dead or in the Big House

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2022, 04:36:19 PM

I just had an in home health check provided by my insurance company.  I was curious, and they are supposed to send me a $15 gift card.

It was pretty impressive really, the lady had everything in a backpack and measured a lot more than I expected.  I appear to be in good health.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 19, 2022, 04:52:13 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 19, 2022, 12:55:05 PM

so if we fund more money to the IRS it will make my tax filing easier?

back home we call that a shakedown

I doubt it has that much to do with funding. 

The questions about that are interesting. There are a small range of reasons it’s not easier, somewhere between great lobbying, possibly good politicking and a potential distrust of the government. Granted, that second argument was under fire the last time I brought it up. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2022, 05:00:40 PM

I now have 5000 bank accounts, each with $500 in them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 19, 2022, 05:07:43 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2022, 05:00:40 PM

I now have 5000 bank accounts, each with $500 in them.

I can’t tell if this is a joke or some kind of fancy text dodge. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 20, 2022, 07:00:26 AM

Simply a play on the dumbass $600 thing that the current administration would like to enact.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 20, 2022, 07:02:06 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 19, 2022, 12:15:19 PM

The libs are going batshit over the Federal mask mandate being lifted

many of them calling for airline boycott

The current administration is going to appeal this decision, should the CDC find the mandate necessary.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 20, 2022, 07:51:44 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 19, 2022, 12:17:47 PM

• Americans could do their taxes in minutes if the IRS had more funding, a Treasury official said.
• The official cited how Estonians can file returns in five minutes; some Swedes can file via text message.
• The Treasury is pleading with Congress for more IRS funding to help it modernize.

American Taxes Could Be Quick, Free If IRS Was Well-Funded: Treasury (businessinsider.com) (https://www.businessinsider.com/americans-get-do-taxes-quickly-for-free-irs-funded-treasury-2022-4?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sf-insider-main&utm_source=facebook.com&fbclid=IwAR1ddoBrJ3fzOQ_3XdWvGocwKxt4gF-YBPmyeuXdFzWWNrQSIbrbOjCvOHw)

If the IRS was truly concerned about Americans doing their taxes quicker, they would argue for simplifying the tax code. This is nothing more than a grab for money and power. Simplify the tax code and abolish the IRS and we would be much further ahead. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2022, 07:54:54 AM

To be fair, it's not the role of the IRS to change the tax code or argue how it should be changed (beyond giving advice if asked).

Most favor a simpler tax code, probably nearly all, but of course each has their own version of simplification.  And Congress in general will prefer a complex code into which they can "sneak" special provisions to encourage things like purchases of EVs and tax credits for doing this or that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 20, 2022, 08:06:58 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/CHuSRDZ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2022, 08:15:56 AM

Judge’s ‘textualist’ ruling on airline mask mandate sparks backlash  | The Hill (https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/3273602-judges-textualist-ruling-on-airline-mask-mandate-sparks-backlash/)

The ruling appears to hinge largely on what the word "sanitation" means.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 20, 2022, 12:59:42 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 20, 2022, 07:54:54 AM

To be fair, it's not the role of the IRS to change the tax code or argue how it should be changed (beyond giving advice if asked).

Most favor a simpler tax code, probably nearly all, but of course each has their own version of simplification.  And Congress in general will prefer a complex code into which they can "sneak" special provisions to encourage things like purchases of EVs and tax credits for doing this or that.

I never claimed that the IRS could change tax code, I simply stated that they could argue for it. And you are correct, Congress likes the complex code as it allows them to push their agendas whatever they may be.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2022, 04:39:57 PM

Biden appeal of judge’s mask mandate ruling risks backfiring | The Hill (https://thehill.com/news/administration/3274441-biden-appeal-of-judges-mask-mandate-ruling-risks-backfiring/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 20, 2022, 05:19:09 PM

This year business cost at restaurants was 100% deductible.  

Do you not think I pulled my credit card statements and recalled discussions of business at every charge of a restaurant? 

Because.... I did.... 

Because... eff them.  

I dont mind paying taxes at all... but when my taxes are 150 to 175 pages every single year, there is a serious problem.  And yes, my taxes are that "complete" (to use the operative word in the findings of my last audit), and because... eff them, that's why.  

If the bastards offer $24.5k  for "married filing jointly" then there is at least $35k to be had conservatively itemizing.  And you're damn straight- I itemize like a mofo- because (wanna guess why?)... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2022, 05:20:07 PM

I logged on to my health insurance plan stuff today and was surprised to see it had ended 12/31/2021.  Huh, was still paying for it.

So, I go to CHAT and get someone who says "Yup, coverage was dropped, you have to call your employer."

I have no phone number for that, so she gives me one she thinks might work.  I call, and listen to an endless menu of options, blah blah blah, none of them right, finally get a real person who figures out they dropped me and added me to some other plan.

That led to more teeth gnashing and run about, if I got a letter I threw it out as tripe.  Finally I manage to log onto the new site and do have coverage, so I suppose it ended well, after a lot of burfle I dislike.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2022, 05:32:11 PM

Survey: Global investors rank Atlanta No. 2 target for real estate investment | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/afire-survey-global-investors-rank-atlanta-top-3-target-investment)

Some place called Austin heads the list, a lot of folks moving there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 20, 2022, 06:20:29 PM

Yes it comes highly recommended by those who work in the tech industries in/around Austin

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on April 20, 2022, 06:35:55 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 20, 2022, 06:20:29 PM

Yes it comes highly recommended by those who work in the tech industries in/around Austin

https://twitter.com/EvilMopacATX/status/1516903478995697669

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 20, 2022, 07:02:01 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 20, 2022, 05:19:09 PM

This year business cost at restaurants was 100% deductible. 

Do you not think I pulled my credit card statements and recalled discussions of business at every charge of a restaurant?

Because.... I did....

Because... eff them. 

I dont mind paying taxes at all... but when my taxes are 150 to 175 pages every single year, there is a serious problem.  And yes, my taxes are that "complete" (to use the operative word in the findings of my last audit), and because... eff them, that's why. 

If the bastards offer $24.5k  for "married filing jointly" then there is at least $35k to be had conservatively itemizing.  And you're damn straight- I itemize like a mofo- because (wanna guess why?)...

I always have been very conservative on my tax return.  Im not saying I think thats for everyone.  I just did not want to have to deal with the IRS in an audit.

I represented one of my ex bosses one time when the IRS sent him notice they were going to conduct a 'Line Audit' on him.  Which means they make you support every line on your return.  OH joy.  They even make you explain every item that hits your 12 months of bank statements.  Good news though he came out clean except for not declaring a gun he sold for $500.  So they zapped him for that but nothing else.  Made me look pretty good so I was happy.

Anyway I decided a long time ago to be on the concervative side and so far it has served me well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 20, 2022, 09:43:25 PM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on April 20, 2022, 06:35:55 PM

https://twitter.com/EvilMopacATX/status/1516903478995697669

utees Family BBQ Joint or Tail Gate ?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 20, 2022, 09:45:51 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 20, 2022, 05:19:09 PM

If the bastards offer $24.5k  for "married filing jointly" then there is at least $35k to be had conservatively itemizing.  And you're damn straight- I itemize like a mofo- because (wanna guess why?)...

A) You've got it coming
B) Screw Them
C)Because you can

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 20, 2022, 10:15:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2022, 08:37:20 AM

Cadillac Super Cruise Review: Better Than Tesla’s Autopilot (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/cadillac-super-cruise-is-as-good-or-better-than-tesla-autopilot/)

Sort of.

yeah, it's not. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 20, 2022, 10:15:41 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2022, 08:41:01 AM

Tesla Solar Roof Review: 2021 Pros & Cons - Unbound Solar (https://unboundsolar.com/blog/tesla-solar-roof-review)

The promise, which I never believed, is these would cost the same as a regular roof, which is plenty expensive as it is. 

it's brand new. it will come down in price. eventually. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2022, 07:09:33 AM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 20, 2022, 05:19:09 PM

This year business cost at restaurants was 100% deductible. 

Do you not think I pulled my credit card statements and recalled discussions of business at every charge of a restaurant?

Because.... I did....

Because... eff them. 

I dont mind paying taxes at all... but when my taxes are 150 to 175 pages every single year, there is a serious problem.  And yes, my taxes are that "complete" (to use the operative word in the findings of my last audit), and because... eff them, that's why. 

If the bastards offer $24.5k  for "married filing jointly" then there is at least $35k to be had conservatively itemizing.  And you're damn straight- I itemize like a mofo- because (wanna guess why?)...

We used to itemize but then we moved down here and there are no taxes to deduct. We also don't give $25K/year to charity anymore. Wife is on a fixed income now. I can't get to the standard deduction anymore, so F it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2022, 08:44:44 AM

He can't itemize enough to reach the standard deduction, so he takes the latter.  So do I.

I pay a chunk in property tax.  They raised the standard deduction by almost 2x.  Most don't itemize now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 21, 2022, 08:52:08 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2022, 08:44:44 AM

He can't itemize enough to reach the standard deduction, so he takes the latter.  So do I.

I pay a chunk in property tax.  They raised the standard deduction by almost 2x.  Most don't itemize now.

Yeah, I misread that. i’m pretty sure I’ve never itemized, a side effect of simply not spending that much money in the world (and not owning a house).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2022, 08:55:25 AM

I itemized every year until the tax cuts became extant in 2018, I think it was.  If you owned a house, you could deduct mortgage interest, property tax, state income tax, and a few minor things and exceed the SD pretty easily.  The limit on SALT deductability became a factor in high income tax states, something Democrats claimed they would reverse, or raise to $80 K or something.

Dems are the party of the rich when they find it expedient.  I'm actually surprised they have not at least modified the "Trump tax cuts" yet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 21, 2022, 09:14:49 AM

There are two big and one sizable softwares to use when you tackle taxes yourself.  Two of them, both big ones, we're sued and lost a class action suit some years ago by embedding "mistakes" that led to IRS advantage every single time. 

By then, I was married to the third.  I was married to it because importing the previous year was just too easy. 

As the IRS game goes, there may be $5 at the bottom of a stack of forms and you know it's there, but is it worth an hour of forms to get to? The answer is a resounding no.  With the software I used, however, it prepopulated all of those forms in between and made that adventure a five minute one.

Then, this company who made the software grew and became more popular.. over the years I notice forms aren't attached to it anymore.  You can still get them,  but you pretty much have to knkw they're there.  Importing helped for several years, but then that stopped amd made accessing them impossible... I figured they had been removed, but when I go to the IRS site and dig for them, there they are.  So... the question becomes how to get to them. 

You can't tell me this isn't by design and purposely done.  So, don't try.

So of I add a form to the return, even if by entering the form name/number, and it will still prompt for the forms required to "get to" the targeted form.  So.. I manually enter them now because the auto population (including name and social) is no longer there. 

There is no way this isn't by design and by some pretty heavy collaboration between that company and the IRS. 

However....

I was audited in 2008 because I "missed" a 1099 for selling some stocks... they weren't my stocks, they were me ex wife's.  She tried to slip that past.  I didn't catch it, as I didn't even know she owned them- the IRS caught them quickly.  And issued an audit. 

Turns out her dumb ass lost money on those shares, and once I proved to the IRS the shares didn't fall from the sky in her (our) possession and that she paid for them with post tax dollars, all was well.  I was using the software way back then, too.  The meeting in Philly which I was represented in resulted in an adjustment in my favor and a response that my taxes were "as complete as they had ever seen"... I took that as encouragement. 

I was audited two years ago too... this time the state got me for $5k... bastards... the agent and I had words- strong words- and he ended up "filing my taxes for me", and didn't allow a single receipt for material purchased as deduction from income... in affect making my margin 100%.  Much of the material was internet purchased and he said an email and/or credit card statement weren't legitimate receipts... well, hell, revenuer, they're the only receipts you get!! ....but that isn't where he nailed me. 

He nailed me by forcing me to amortize an expense which I wanted to claim in its entirety and all at once.  He said "that's what people do (amortize)"... I asked "where does it say I HAVE to?"... it doesn't say I have to, anywhere.. it cost me up front and I wanted to deduct it, in whole, the same year... he wouldn't let me because "that's not what people do".  I THINK I could have made a stink out of it and filed the way I wanted to, but... that would have led to many years of extreme scrutiny I have no doubt- and thats because that's how those bastards work.  So.  I ate it.  And, I have two more years left to amortize what he wouldn't let me take all at once at a rate of $12.5k every year.

That alone makes taking the standard disadvantageous. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2022, 10:06:28 AM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 21, 2022, 09:14:49 AM

There are two big and one sizable softwares to use when you tackle taxes yourself.  Two of them, both big ones, we're sued and lost a class action suit some years ago by embedding "mistakes" that led to IRS advantage every single time. 

so what is your opinion on turbo tax

is it good or bad or in between

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 21, 2022, 10:15:08 AM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 21, 2022, 09:14:49 AM

By then, I was married to the third.  I was married to it because importing the previous year was just too easy. 

I thought you were talking about wives,thinking you better be itemizing and lawyering up

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/l0MYMizgnsTpoMuoo/source.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 21, 2022, 10:20:32 AM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 21, 2022, 09:14:49 AM

I was audited two years ago too... this time the state got me for $5k....
bastards....the agent :violent-smiley-007: and I had words- strong words

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on April 21, 2022, 11:00:35 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 20, 2022, 07:02:01 PM

I always have been very conservative on my tax return.  Im not saying I think thats for everyone.  I just did not want to have to deal with the IRS in an audit.

I represented one of my ex bosses one time when the IRS sent him notice they were going to conduct a 'Line Audit' on him.  Which means they make you support every line on your return.  OH joy.  They even make you explain every item that hits your 12 months of bank statements.  Good news though he came out clean except for not declaring a gun he sold for $500.  So they zapped him for that but nothing else.  Made me look pretty good so I was happy.

Anyway I decided a long time ago to be on the concervative side and so far it has served me well.

I go conservative on my taxes because I don't want to lose my CPA credentials. It drives my wife crazy paying every year.  As I tell her then retirement so we no longer have to deal with RSUs, stock options, etc. and can actually take college tuition credits, make a deductible contribution to IRAs, etc.

Personally we are in the gap area, where we cannot change out income to "non" income sources, but make enough money to lose many of the deductions. But as they say, I would rather pay taxes than not have the income.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2022, 11:23:53 AM

Cruise ships are no longer allowed to dock in Venice, as of this month. The water is too high already. People are having to raise their doorways, and on one day while we were there, entire Piazza's were under water.

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 21, 2022, 10:26:50 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/UXhdXZA.png)

Lovely,romantic

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2022, 11:26:41 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on April 21, 2022, 11:00:35 AM

I go conservation on my taxes because I don't want to lose my CPA credentials. It drives my wife crazy paying every year.  As I tell her then retirement so we no longer have to deal with RSUs, stock options, etc. and can actually take college tuition credits, make a deductible contribution to IRAs, etc.

Personally we are in the gap area, where we can change out income to "non" income sources, but enough money to lose many of the deductions. But as they say, I would rather pay taxes than not have the income.

the only way you could lose your license from income tax filing is to do something illegal like fraud

just taking an aggressive approach wont get your license revoked

at least not here in Texas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 21, 2022, 11:34:41 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 21, 2022, 10:06:28 AM

so what is your opinion on turbo tax

is it good or bad or in between

i wouldn't say its bad... i wouldn't say its good, either.  its one of those involved in the class action suit and lost.  the thing is, as if you were to hire a tax accountant/CPA to file your taxes, THEY get to pull up a chair and are in just as warm a pool as YOU are if you're audited.  It seems turbotax and H&R Block took the easy way out by basically disallowing certain actions to be taken- meaning your filings would be conservative no matter how you did them while using their software... unless you outright lied, that is- there is no help (and ought not be) for a liar. 

the software i use is tax act.  they used to have a great product, and it still isn't bad.. it's not 'good', but it's no better or worse than the other two heavyweights.  the only reason i still use it is because importing from previous years is SO easy- and because I import, when i compare previous filings to the current one i can find, easily, the forms missed during the "interview" process and add them.  Sometimes I get to use them, sometimes I don't.  

all i'm saying is there is a treasure trove of deductions just outside of view, and every year there is a honey pot.  there is zero chance those honey pots are accidental.  the honey pot this year is (seems to be) a 100% penny-for-penny deduction for business dinners so long as they were at a restaurant (apparently picking up a 1/4 of beef and tossing it in the smoker for a company party isn't claimable- ergo at least at that juncture).... and that is a pretty big deduction... i mean, legitimately, i claimed I think it was $1200 or thereabout with just that deduction- and it could have been more if i was to claim any dinner where business was mentioned, but legitimately and on meals that were arranged for business purposes, that's what I spent.... thing is, that's a 'honey pot' i found because it was within my area of reconnoiter... i'm sure (as in certain) there are more... and who knows about them?  I wager politicians do... big businesses who have a staff of tax attorneys do... cronies and gov't appointees.. ect... THEY know before anyone else and prepare accordingly and I'd stake my life on it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on April 21, 2022, 11:37:33 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 21, 2022, 11:26:41 AM

the only way you could lose your license from income tax filing is to do something illegal like fraud

just taking an aggressive approach wont get your license revoked

at least not here in Texas

I understand that, but don't want to give the IRS the chance to interpret aggressive as fraud and then have to defend myself in tax court

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2022, 12:44:51 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 21, 2022, 11:34:41 AM

i wouldn't say its bad... i wouldn't say its good, either.  its one of those involved in the class action suit and lost.  the thing is, as if you were to hire a tax accountant/CPA to file your taxes, THEY get to pull up a chair and are in just as warm a pool as YOU are if you're audited.  It seems turbotax and H&R Block took the easy way out by basically disallowing certain actions to be taken- meaning your filings would be conservative no matter how you did them while using their software... unless you outright lied, that is- there is no help (and ought not be) for a liar.

and see thats the exact reason I like turbo tax

my taxes are so straight forward they are boring 

I dont itemize because I paid my house off so its pretty simple

but I hear what you are saying 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2022, 12:46:00 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on April 21, 2022, 11:37:33 AM

I understand that, but don't want to give the IRS the chance to interpret aggressive as fraud and then have to defend myself in tax court

well I cant argue with that

I like to leave the IRS alone also

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2022, 12:46:23 PM

CNN+ will shut down April 30, just one month after launch (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/21/cnn-is-shutting-down-effective-april-30-sources-say.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2022, 12:47:14 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2022, 12:46:23 PM

CNN+ will shut down April 30, just one month after launch (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/21/cnn-is-shutting-down-effective-april-30-sources-say.html)

oh be still my heart

its so depressing 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2022, 12:47:42 PM

For most folks,  taxes are pretty straightforward, no business expenses etc., no Schedule C.  Some income, 1099s, W2, boom, done.

The standard deduction is so high now, most folks won't get near it with regular deductions.  The SALT limit plays into that for some.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2022, 01:03:12 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2022, 12:47:42 PM

For most folks,  taxes are pretty straightforward, no business expenses etc., no Schedule C.  Some income, 1099s, W2, boom, done.

The standard deduction is so high now, most folks won't get near it with regular deductions.  The SALT limit plays into that for some.

yep thats me

the only thing thats gets a little involved with me is when I buy and sell stocks but I stopped Nov 2020
cause I didnt have a good feeling about how the market might react under the current administration

anyway I'll be jumping in again possibly next Nov

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 21, 2022, 01:26:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2022, 12:46:23 PM

CNN+ will shut down April 30, just one month after launch (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/21/cnn-is-shutting-down-effective-april-30-sources-say.html)

Setting aside one’s politics, as ideas go, that was about as bottom of the barrel as possible. 

You have a channel that is functionally without a constituency. And it already provides content all the damn time. At least the other 24-hour networks could provide more potent brain rotting trash to freak partisans. And it’s not line CNN can trick people into “actually, I’m paying for something of higher quality.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2022, 01:33:21 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 21, 2022, 01:26:22 PM

Setting aside one’s politics, as ideas go, that was about as bottom of the barrel as possible.

You have a channel that is functionally without a constituency. And it already provides content all the damn time. At least the other 24-hour networks could provide more potent brain rotting trash to freak partisans. And it’s not line CNN can trick people into “actually, I’m paying for something of higher quality.”

Its simply a matter of not having any depth in their programming.  The people want what they want and cnn does not provide it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on April 21, 2022, 03:07:30 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2022, 12:47:42 PM

For most folks,  taxes are pretty straightforward, no business expenses etc., no Schedule C.  Some income, 1099s, W2, boom, done.

The standard deduction is so high now, most folks won't get near it with regular deductions.  The SALT limit plays into that for some.

I am officially retiring from doing taxes for companies and individual when I finish the last of the ones I still have to do.  Absolutely tired of trying to keep up with the ever changing tax laws for my clients who have complicated returns.  Almost all of my clients have fairly simple returns and the people could do it themselves with turbotax.  I finally told me kids last year, I was no longer doing their taxes, showed them how to use turbotax.

Personally I am tired of the doing my own taxes, This year 100 pages in total.  Schedule 1, Schedule 2, Schedule A, 2 schedule C, Schedule D and all kinds of various additional forms. And btw the SALT limit sucks. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2022, 03:16:56 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on April 21, 2022, 03:07:30 PM

I am officially retiring from doing taxes for companies and individual when I finish the last of the ones I still have to do.  Absolutely tired of trying to keep up with the ever changing tax laws for my clients who have complicated returns.  Almost all of my clients have fairly simple returns and the people could do it themselves with turbotax.  I finally told me kids last year, I was no longer doing their taxes, showed them how to use turbotax.

Personally I am tired of the doing my own taxes, This year 100 pages in total.  Schedule 1, Schedule 2, Schedule A, 2 schedule C, Schedule D and all kinds of various additional forms. And btw the SALT limit sucks.

do you use a tax program

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2022, 03:32:40 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on April 21, 2022, 03:07:30 PM

I am officially retiring from doing taxes for companies and individual when I finish the last of the ones I still have to do.  Absolutely tired of trying to keep up with the ever changing tax laws for my clients who have complicated returns.  Almost all of my clients have fairly simple returns and the people could do it themselves with turbotax.  I finally told me kids last year, I was no longer doing their taxes, showed them how to use turbotax.

Personally I am tired of the doing my own taxes, This year 100 pages in total.  Schedule 1, Schedule 2, Schedule A, 2 schedule C, Schedule D and all kinds of various additional forms. And btw the SALT limit sucks.

I appreciate it now, because low tax states should not be liable to fund high tax states.

Back in Illinois, not so much.

Our property taxes are 1/5 of what they were up North, and there is no state income tax here. Back up North, my state income tax alone got us well past the $10K. Here, we can't even get close to $10K.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on April 21, 2022, 07:05:06 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 21, 2022, 03:16:56 PM

do you use a tax program

Proconnect

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2022, 07:14:47 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on April 21, 2022, 07:05:06 PM

Proconnect

Produced by the same company that does Turbo Tax

Im not sure Proconnect runs on windows

which is probably why I dont have any experience with it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2022, 07:21:39 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/N2flbFf.jpg)

We walked down to New Realm Brewery and had lunch on their rooftop bar.  Nice day.  Pretty good food, but beer is $7 each, which is a bit steep.  Below is a view of the Beltline from the roof.

(https://i.imgur.com/yi9fsYQ.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2022, 07:22:48 PM

they are very proud of their beer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2022, 07:53:47 PM

fancy rooftop real estate causing the proud beer prices

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 22, 2022, 08:16:06 AM

Ed Zackery. Beer is free, you pay for the view. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2022, 08:24:15 AM

$7 is about the norm around here for a "craft beer".  One place near us does $3 Sapporo's until 6 PM.  They are a "noodle place", pretty good.  Some of the bars feature a massive tap, over 50 different kinds, as their deal, like Taco Mac.  I don't want 50+ offerings, I just want maybe ten.  The best place I've found is the patio at Sweetwater, their beers are mostly $5-6, my wife likes 420 a lot, they have maybe 15 selections, most pretty good, a few weird experimental types, and pretty decent food.

(https://i.imgur.com/Qm81gsa.jpg)

Alternatively, our deck is nice, and I can buy most of this for $1.50 each.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 22, 2022, 08:32:02 AM

How many porch parties you hosting for the Forum?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2022, 09:33:11 AM

I'd be glad to, you just need to let me know a bit in advance.

I could be traveling of course.  We're back to traveling fairly often again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 22, 2022, 10:19:01 AM

There used to be a pub on Ocracoke Island called..Howard's... there still is but it's at least two management's later, now.  Howard was somehow involved in organized crime from the NE, and it caught up to him.

He had a beer list of 375 beers iirc... 

We jumped the ferry one Friday afternoon, two buddies and I, and went over there with intent on coming back later that night... we discovered as we left the ferry station it was the last ferry until Saturday afternoon- whoops! 

We decided to attempt to drink every beer on the list at said pub... its called a pub but at the time it was an open pavilion bar.  We cut the menu in thirds and assigned one to each, and had at it.  

That was an interesting weekend.  Some dude was playing solo acoustic at the pub, and though I've played out and in front of people I didn't know before and should have had some sympathy for the guy, well, I didn't.  He was terrible.  He took a break at some point and the three of us took the stage over.  It's not that we were good, it's that we were better.... and it was one of those "in the moment things".  Howard actually asked us to come back and play again.  

We also stopped having to pay for drinks.  

This was the off-season and it's a pretty tight knit community over there who are suspect of outsiders, but they treated us like we were something special.  We literally played until well into morning.  Howard fired up the grill at daybreak and cooked breakfast for everyone still there- and we kept drinking.... and drinking... 

We missed the Saturday ferry and after crashing in the only real parking lot on the island (silver lake), we did it all over again Saturday night into Sunday.  

I could tell yall stories for days- conquerors and concubines and wanderers from darker times- betrayal and conspiracy and sacrilegious herecy- but that weekend at Howard's pub on Ocracoke may have been the best weekend of my life.  

And... we drank, much to the amazement of the locals, every beer on that menu.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 22, 2022, 10:40:15 AM

Jeez.    NoT 375... 175... there were 175 beers on that menu. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2022, 10:41:45 AM

I wondered, but the story was too good to call you out

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2022, 11:04:02 AM

No showers? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 22, 2022, 11:07:17 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2022, 11:04:02 AM

No showers?

jump in the drink.... swim about a bit... air dry- repeat as needed. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 22, 2022, 11:21:18 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 22, 2022, 09:33:11 AM

I'd be glad to, you just need to let me know a bit in advance.

I could be traveling of course.  We're back to traveling fairly often again.

Oh we don't need you just the porch and the Pilsner :singing:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2022, 11:36:35 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/8O6nA2B.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/0MvAeJH.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on April 22, 2022, 01:37:18 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 21, 2022, 07:14:47 PM

Produced by the same company that does Turbo Tax

Im not sure Proconnect runs on windows

which is probably why I dont have any experience with it

It is the professional online version.  I use(d) it for my tax practice.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 22, 2022, 03:00:50 PM

some moron on a plane thought it would be a good idea to harass, heckle, and throw a water bottle at Mike Tyson.

If there is one guy in the world I would never f**k with, it's probably Mike Tyson.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2022/04/22/mike-tyson-airplane-passenger-punched-criminal-record/7411310001/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 22, 2022, 03:10:05 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 22, 2022, 03:00:50 PM

some moron on a plane thought it would be a good idea to harass, heckle, and throw a water bottle at Mike Tyson.

If there is one guy in the world I would never f**k with, it's probably Mike Tyson.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2022/04/22/mike-tyson-airplane-passenger-punched-criminal-record/7411310001/

yep he had to be drunk

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 22, 2022, 03:17:19 PM

Can't fix stoopid ;D

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 22, 2022, 03:22:38 PM

reminds me of this


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is8-NQGGUX0

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 22, 2022, 04:54:30 PM

this Johnny Depp trial is pretty crazy. Just goes to show how f**ked the world is against men and the "believe women" bullsh*t is just that- total f**king horseshit. Women have it so f***king easy. Poor guy married a complete PSYCHOPATH - she abused and degraded him- cheated on him- and then writes a complete bullsh*t op-ed in the worthless useless sh%tbag Washington Post claiming she was a victim and he's an abuser- and ruins the guys career. Don't give me this "toxic masculinity" bullsh*t...there's a problem with toxic females on this earth getting away with all kinds of crazy insane bullsh*t.

Why is it that really hot women are really f**king crazy?

Amber Heard is a f***king piece of human sh*t and a f***king psychopath who needs to be locked in a padded cell to boot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 22, 2022, 05:26:35 PM

Did anyone catch the latest Fauci statement

He said courts should not overrule the CDC

https://freebeacon.com/coronavirus/fauci-courts-should-stay-out-of-cdcs-way-on-mask-mandates/

everyone knows the CDC knows whats best and should never be questioned

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 22, 2022, 07:01:56 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 22, 2022, 04:54:30 PM

Why is it that really hot women are really f**king crazy?

Because they're never exposed to the reality the rest of us share.  They're treated differently (both extremely well and extremely poor) than every other type of person.
People treat beautiful girls and women either especially good (favoritism, smiles, 2nd chances, financially, etc) or especially bad (sex objects, raped, all other attributes ignored, etc).  The idea of mundane or average is lost on them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 22, 2022, 10:36:17 PM

The best part is that she, a shitty actress, who is only hired for her looks, thought she could outact Johnny Depp, an actual actor, on the stand.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2022, 07:26:52 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 22, 2022, 05:26:35 PM

Did anyone catch the latest Fauci statement

He said courts should not overrule the CDC

https://freebeacon.com/coronavirus/fauci-courts-should-stay-out-of-cdcs-way-on-mask-mandates/

everyone knows the CDC knows whats best and should never be questioned

That guy will be in jail someday. Or at least he should be.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2022, 07:38:30 AM

He's entitled to his opinion of course.   I can see his point in a broad, but not specific sense, and it's both a public health matter and potentially a judicial matter.



"We are concerned about … courts getting involved in things that are unequivocally public health decisions," Fauci said. "This is a CDC issue, it should not have been a court issue."
[color=rgba(182,35,40,var(--tw-text-opacity))]https://twitter.com/kasie/status/1517248989535649794?s=20&t=BWNYmWTS5bkb-6TYMIRN-g (https://twitter.com/kasie/status/1517248989535649794?s=20&t=BWNYmWTS5bkb-6TYMIRN-g)[/iurl][/font][/size][/color]
Fauci made the same argument in an appearance on CBS News. "The principle of a court overruling a public health judgment by a qualified organization like the CDC is disturbing in the precedent that it might send,"  he [color=rgba(182,35,40,var(--tw-text-opacity))]said (https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1517267411019440128?s=20&t=yOS_TLyPL7lq3_iGbDpEBw)[/url]. "This is a public health matter, not a judicial matter."[/font][/size][/color]

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2022, 08:00:09 AM

sorry Fauci

the CDC has it's job and duty

the courts and judges have their job and duty

a judge rarely sticks their nose into something for no reason

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2022, 08:02:15 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 22, 2022, 04:54:30 PM

Why is it that really hot women are really f**king crazy?

https://youtu.be/pInk1rV2VEg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2022, 08:02:20 AM

Basically, the purview of any Federal entity is subject to being limited by the Courts.

That is a simple fact of our Constitution.  One could regret that at times, but it's still a fact.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 23, 2022, 08:03:36 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2022, 07:26:52 AM

That guy will be in jail someday. Or at least he should be.

Still got the boat? we'll get the manhole covers.Not as good as the Slippers Uncle Vinnie made but will do the job

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 23, 2022, 08:40:41 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2022, 07:26:52 AM

That guy will be in jail someday. Or at least he should be.

The older I get, the weirder I feel about our flippancy when it comes to our bloodlust for jailing and firing people. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2022, 09:08:51 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/CBaAenT.jpg)

We went up to our building deck last evening for some sparkling wine and soicisson, howver you spell that, and bubbly.  The tree is a 90 foot tulip poplar, in bloom.  Gorgeous day, downtown in background thought the tallest building is technically in midtown.

The leaves on trees are pretty much full out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on April 23, 2022, 09:29:14 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 23, 2022, 08:00:09 AM

the courts and judges have their job and duty

a judge rarely sticks their nose into something for no reason

Speaking of which, actual testimony from Johnny Depp’s cross-examination from the attorneys of his ex-wife Amber Heard, whom he’s suing for defamation, presented without context:
----
Attorney: “You dipped your finger in paint after suffering an injury?”
Jack Sparrow: “Yes that was after writing on the walls, the blood had dried as it were, and so I stuck my finger into a can of paint and also mineral spirits to put my verbal messages onto the wall.”
----
Attorney: “You would agree with me, there was quite a bit of damage to the house after this incident in Australia, correct? And you don’t remember the television breaking, do you?”
Jack Sparrow: “I remember there was a, I believe it was a coffee cup stuck into the screen or a plate…”
----
Attorney: “You could’ve also defaced the painting by drawing a penis on it, didn’t you?”
Jack Sparrow: “I don’t know about that. I don’t remember drawing a penis on a painting.”
Attorney: “Given the state you were in, it’s entirely possible you did that, even if you don’t remember it to this day, correct?”
Jack Sparrow: “Drawing a penis on a painting was not the first thing on my mind.”
----
Attorney: “And you may have been drunk in that video, correct?”
Jack Sparrow: “There’s a possibility of that.”
Attorney: “You poured yourself a mega pint of red wine, correct?”
Jack Sparrow: “A mega pint?”
----
Jack Sparrow: “I wasn’t asking for more ecstasy, I was asking for ecstasy because that is what was requested by Miss Heard…”
----
Attorney: “And one of your good friends you’ve taken drug with before is Marilynn Manson, correct?”
Jack Sparrow: “Yes…we’ve drank together. We’ve had cocaine together maybe a couple of times…I once gave Marilynn Manson a pill so that he would stop talking so much.”
----
Jack Sparrow’s text message presented as testimony: “Missing you and yours and await our dangle on the island…You may have to drink for me…I, of course, pounded and displayed ugly colors to Amber on recent journey…I am an insane person and not so fair headed after too much of the drink…Weed, pills…Fine!!! Booze??? My capacity is too large and I won’t stop…Ugly and sad…Oh, how I love it…”
----
Jack Sparrow: “I received some news that was as absurd and grotesque and cruel and then I was shown a picture of what the problem was. It was a photograph…of our bed and on my side of the bed was human fecal matter.”

(https://i.imgur.com/P41ApWY.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2022, 09:35:10 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 23, 2022, 08:40:41 AM

The older I get, the weirder I feel about our flippancy when it comes to our bloodlust for jailing and firing people.

Why he has not been investigated is beyond me. There is nothing flippant about it. The man is a liar at best.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2022, 09:40:12 AM

My wife is up at the Consulate voting.  She texted me there is a wait of 1 1/2 hours.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 23, 2022, 10:18:34 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2022, 09:35:10 AM

Why he has not been investigated is beyond me. There is nothing flippant about it. The man is a liar at best.

What is he going to be investigated for?

I ask because the nature of our system has a REALLY high burden of proof for a lot of things. And we’ve not really articulated much of a crime other than … lying about pandemic-related things, I guess?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2022, 10:54:32 AM

He may have lied many times, and not committed any crime of course.

Perjury would be different, but very hard to prove, and who is going to charge him anyway?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2022, 11:29:36 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 23, 2022, 10:18:34 AM

What is he going to be investigated for?

I ask because the nature of our system has a REALLY high burden of proof for a lot of things. And we’ve not really articulated much of a crime other than … lying about pandemic-related things, I guess?

He will be investigated for crushing the lab leak theory (which greatly hindered the investigation on where this came from), and for indirectly (maybe indirectly??) providing funding for GOF research that President Obama's administration banned.

If these are true, and they seem to be based on emails already released, he will be in a lot of trouble.

Who will investigate?

Congress, starting in January 2023.

It's a shame really. I had a ton of respect for him in the beginning. Then he got flimsy and power hungry and turned into an attention whore.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2022, 11:35:16 AM

LMAO

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 23, 2022, 11:46:05 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2022, 11:29:36 AM

He will be investigated for crushing the lab leak theory (which greatly hindered the investigation on where this came from), and for indirectly (maybe indirectly??) providing funding for GOF research that President Obama's administration banned.

If these are true, and they seem to be based on emails already released, he will be in a lot of trouble.

Who will investigate?

Congress, starting in January 2023.

It's a shame really. I had a ton of respect for him in the beginning. Then he got flimsy and power hungry and turned into an attention whore.

So he'll investigated for denying a theory and indirectly funding this thing, and that will land him in jail? 

And our fearless investigators will be venal pols who we assume do any and everything for money and attention?

Forgive my skepticism about this leading to anything more than noise and directionless hubbub. (I do agree he spent too much time in the limelight. Once he became such a "thing," stepping back into a less visible role would've been better)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2022, 01:08:40 PM

For the crime of crushing a theory in the first degree, the jury finds the defendant guilty as charged.
.
Sentencing:  the defendant will be required to wear a pink lab coat for no less than 3 years.
.
You guys are hilarious.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 23, 2022, 01:49:40 PM

The only crime that I can think of would involve his appearance before a congressional committee and whether or not he lied


other then that Im not aware of any possible crime he has been accused of

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 24, 2022, 07:04:30 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 23, 2022, 01:49:40 PM

The only crime that I can think of would involve his appearance before a congressional committee and whether or not he lied


other then that Im not aware of any possible crime he has been accused of

If he agreed to fund GOF research after at it had been banned, that would be a crime.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 24, 2022, 10:25:46 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 24, 2022, 07:04:30 AM

If he agreed to fund GOF research after at it had been banned, that would be a crime.

OK there you see I dont know everything

told ya

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2022, 10:37:04 AM

I did modest reading on "GoF research", and it strikes me as a very vague topic.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 24, 2022, 11:56:33 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 23, 2022, 01:49:40 PM

The only crime that I can think of would involve his appearance before a congressional committee and whether or not he lied


other then that Im not aware of any possible crime he has been accused of

The reason why his position was/is the perfect position for justifying unlawful policy... from impacting how elections are held to destroying small businesses.  Now was he a willing instrument? I'd guess yes.. but he didn't have to be and the manner in which his freakin thoughts were promoted to facts leads to believe he was just being used.... but at some point he was a willing instrument..... and all the while it's "science" not to be scrutinized else face ridicule or canceling.  Systematically. 

Gain of function in the sense used in this discussion is illegal, and has been for some while... here, that is... which means (as suspected) it was just sent offshore.  It happens all over the place but maybe not here.  

its pure intent is noble, by my reckoning.  However, there is a lot of opportunity for unsavory types to slip in a certain junctures and take it somewhere those with noble intent don't appreciate.  I may share a story about a French doctor who teaches at east Carolina University (last I heard) who had specific experience with this prior to becoming a professor of molecular biology with a focus on marine biology.  He literally fled his former laboratory with nothing to show for his research.  The subject is akin to those at MIT or equivalent developing an ICE capable of unheralded economy and an oil company gaining control of the program and it disappearing.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 24, 2022, 11:49:21 PM

Imagine being willing to take on this much risk, for basically zero reward

https://twitter.com/AaronTevis/status/1518404583172706306?t=ZFgYKxMdTa6K3KNQ9ziekg&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2022, 06:38:55 AM

That is nuts!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 25, 2022, 07:36:29 AM

Time to thin the herd.I think i shared a video a while back with some Euros jumping off mountains in those winged batman suits as Piper Cub type planes fly by with the doors open as they swoop in.Un-fooking believable

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2022, 08:33:44 AM

We just booked another Trans Atlantic crossing for this upcoming November. Really enjoy that experience.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2022, 09:09:04 AM

We ordered a Sunsetter awning in January. It's finally shipped. Hopefully install next week.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2022, 09:26:34 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2022, 09:09:04 AM

We ordered a Sunsetter awning in January. It's finally shipped. Hopefully install next week.

Are you also installing it yourself

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2022, 09:28:50 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 25, 2022, 09:26:34 AM

Are you also installing it yourself

I've done one before, but this one is 20' long. I'll write the $350 check and let those guys mount it and plug it in up in the attic. I did run the power myself.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2022, 09:35:35 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2022, 09:28:50 AM

I've done one before, but this one is 20' long. I'll write the $350 check and let those guys mount it and plug it in up in the attic. I did run the power myself.

getting ready for some summer party action

considering what weve faced the last 2 years we all deserve it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2022, 09:47:23 AM

We never stopped with the parties. Outside especially. Sure, we have an older crew here and some were extra careful, but it was mostly business as usual after the first 6 months or so. Especially when the vaccines rolled out.

We are almost complete on the renovation of this house. Pool tiles tomorrow, then new floor paint. 

Last thing will be a roof, but it just got a clean bill of health 6 months ago. When insurance decides not to renew me, that's when the new roof happens. Lots of people on my block were forced to replace. I got a quote when we moved here - $30K - two years ago. People are paying $50-60K right now. I'll hold out.

I MIGHT consider self-insuring this place too. Everything is now hurricane proof - except the roof. Gonna go with metal if I'm allowed to.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 11:22:31 AM

Hmmm, looks like Twitter is accepting Elon Musk's offer. 

Looking forward to all the free speechifying on there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 25, 2022, 11:26:00 AM

Quote from: ELA on April 22, 2022, 10:36:17 PM

The best part is that she, a shitty actress, who is only hired for her looks, thought she could outact Johnny Depp, an actual actor, on the stand.

not only is JD an actual actor - he’s arguably the best one in the entire world lol. 

I’m shocked that WB and Disney fired him from the Harry Potter and Pirates franchises. Any investigation by private investigators either company could easily hire to dig into the issue would’ve showed in two seconds flat Heard was batshit crazy and lying about everything. Just goes to show how “woke” things have gotten. The latest Potter spinoff in which they replaced Depp has tanked at the box office- WB is losing money on it. Go Woke Go Broke. I f***king love it.

This psycho c*nt was arrested for domestic violence when she was married to a woman. Yup. She was married to a woman and left the woman for JD. How do you just decide one day you’re not a lesbian anymore and into men? This is the sign of a mentally unstable crazy person. There’s also allegations she was physically abusive to her little sister. And Heard’s former personal assistant says she used to verbally abuse her and even spit on her once- and that’s when she quit working for that psychopath. 

Hope he wins this case and hopefully he’ll get his career back and we’ll never have to hear from Amber Never Heard of her- the   talentless c*nt again. Literally had no idea who she even was til she got with JD. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 25, 2022, 11:30:36 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 11:22:31 AM

Hmmm, looks like Twitter is accepting Elon Musk's offer.

Looking forward to all the free speechifying on there.

The board literally had no choice. Shareholders threatened to sue them into oblivion if they didn’t take the bid. Twitter is a dogshit company that’s never made any money- and the only reason the stock moved at all was because Musk announced he bought nearly 10% of the shares. He’s offered like a 48% premium on the share prices in his take over bid from where it was when it became public he was investing heavy into it. Literally the only reason it moved at all was bc of him and then the take over bid. If you actually look into the company- it’s a complete dogshit company that doesn’t make any money and not sure it ever will. Musk is doing this because he’s a very disciplined and principled guy and as he’s proven time and time again in his past- when he really believes in something- he goes all in and puts everything on the line. 

This is a great day for free speech and for trying to turn the tide up of the pussyfication and woke mind virus which has infected this country. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2022, 11:45:30 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 25, 2022, 11:30:36 AM

The board literally had no choice. Shareholders threatened to sue them into oblivion if they didn’t take the bid. Twitter is a dogshit company that’s never made any money- and the only reason the stock moved at all was because Musk announced he bought nearly 10% of the shares. He’s offered like a 48% premium on the share prices in his take over bid from where it was when it became public he was investing heavy into it. Literally the only reason it moved at all was bc of him and then the take over bid. If you actually look into the company- it’s a complete dogshit company that doesn’t make any money and not sure it ever will. Musk is doing this because he’s a very disciplined and principled guy and as he’s proven time and time again in his past- when he really believes in something- he goes all in and puts everything on the line.

This is a great day for free speech and for trying to turn the tide up of the pussyfication and woke mind virus which has infected this country.

I agree 100%

No reason why twitter cant be profitable

Its current leadership only cared about one thing and that wasnt making money

Im really enjoying the lib meltdown over this

If this happens it will put quite a bit of pressure for "free speech" to spread to other social media

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 11:56:11 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 25, 2022, 11:45:30 AM

If this happens it will put quite a bit of pressure for "free speech" to spread to other social media

Ehh, it happens because Elon really like Twitter. But it will be nice that he will keep it open for free speech, which means that people will be able to say horrible things about him on Twitter.

It would also be good to have some good free-speech news this week after that anti-free-speech mess with the state of Florida and Disney

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 25, 2022, 11:59:36 AM

Florida strips Disney World of its special quasi governmental status. You have to love it.

Incredible to see “liberals” bashing a Republican for stripping corporations of special powers and advantages they do not need nor deserve. 

And motherf***king hilarious and pathetic to see politicians from other states begging Disney to leave Orlando and relocate Disney World to their states. Lmfao. F**king morons. Disney World is over 25,000 acres and it’s like 43 sq miles. They aren’t going anywhere. The cost to replicate the purchasing of that amount of land and all the construction to build out the theme park and it’s infrastructure today would be astronomical. You’re talking tens if not hundreds of billions. Even with increased taxation- they’ll still pay infinitely less tax in Florida than they would in most other states. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 12:10:27 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 25, 2022, 11:59:36 AM

Florida strips Disney World of its special quasi governmental status. You have to love it.

Incredible to see “liberals” bashing a Republican for stripping corporations of special powers and advantages they do not need nor deserve.

And motherf***king hilarious and pathetic to see politicians from other states begging Disney to leave Orlando and relocate Disney World to their states. Lmfao. F**king morons. Disney World is over 25,000 acres and it’s like 43 sq miles. They aren’t going anywhere. The cost to replicate the purchasing of that amount of land and all the construction to build out the theme park and it’s infrastructure today would be astronomical. You’re talking tens if not hundreds of billions. Even with increased taxation- they’ll still pay infinitely less tax in Florida than they would in most other states.

Government punishes free speech, while saying it’ll punish free speech, and one half of the aisle cheers.

The said truth of that it. Most people who talk a big game about “free speech” would not recognize the principles of it, and love to see it torn down to serve partisan needs.

(that’s not to say those corporate handouts are good, though they are what makes a state “good for business” in the modern parlance. That said, if they were considered bad, they would’ve been pull along time ago. This is just a government effort to punish free speech)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 25, 2022, 12:20:46 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 11:56:11 AM

Ehh, it happens because Elon really like Twitter. But it will be nice that he will keep it open for free speech, which means that people will be able to say horrible things about him on Twitter.

It would also be good to have some good free-speech news this week after that anti-free-speech mess with the state of Florida and Disney

Give me a break. People already say horrible things about him. He’s doing this precisely because he believes in free speech. This will not make him any money. Twitter is a dogshit company. 

It continues to amaze me that you don’t know what free speech actually is and that corporations are not actually people. And no one is restricting disneys free speech. They are free to say whatever they want. They RIGHTFULLY got stripped of powers they never should’ve had in the first place. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 25, 2022, 12:21:46 PM

Don't forget the lengths Walt went through to get that property and how it ran on the edges of legality.... it never would have happened in the first place without the many shadow companies buying property seemingly non-related.

But he did do what he did, and now the region is dependent on it... to the point they self govern. 

Seriously, why would the liberals love and protect Disney? It seems the Corp is everything they hate or report to hate.  Is it because Disney has a platform to exact change and the kind of social change liberals seek? And... it sure is. 

Meanwhile, the right os giggling over DeSantis handling of Disney, which represents the American Dream as understood by most conservative Americans... "work hard, be smart, work harder, make friends and use them, and flourish", yet, Disney is loathed by hard line conservatives- and because they are such an effective tool for exacting change as directed by liberal agendas...

It's all about free speech and control of what is accepted and what isn't.  That's it and that's all, and it's stupid. 

I read they've lost $40B since the leak of purposeful social engineering for alternate lifestyles... that ain't got nothing to do with tax breaks or self governing, it has to do with disapproval by shareholders of thr company's management.  If left to it's own device, it would find its way.  The money always pushed to what matches the contract with society, not what it wants to make society. 

Now the bill about teaching kids as young as kindergarten about alternate lifestyles?  That ain't in the realm of public schools.... sorry- not sorry- it just ain't.  That's done by parents and by society left to it's own direction and not being herded by megacorporations in bed with one side of the political divide. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 25, 2022, 12:22:52 PM

The reason that the Fantastic Beasts films are floundering is that A) the scripts are junk, and B) very few are interested in a grown-up Wizarding World.  Jo Rowling is getting into the screenplay business, instead of writing novels and then having screenwriters adapt them. Novels and screenplays are NOT the same. 

As for the Disney special improvement district, what I've seen is that the original enabling legislation has rules and procedures for the operation and dissolution of said district, all of which the State of Florida has just attempted to end-run. Disney is going to keep the district, and the only ones profiting from it will be the lawyers. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 12:37:04 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 25, 2022, 12:20:46 PM

It continues to amaze me that you don’t know what free speech actually is and that corporations are not actually people. And no one is restricting disneys free speech. They are free to say whatever they want. They RIGHTFULLY got stripped of powers they never should’ve had in the first place.

Under the law, they are. And they have been. 

And this view that speech is free if government means can be used to suppress it is, well, both simplistic and wrong. By that logic, I'm free to murder, because I can definitely do it, but will only face punishment afterwords. 

It's funny these times we live in. It turns out party and politics is the main driver of so much. Free speech means people I agree with should be able to say whatever wherever, even on private platforms. But people I don't like or speech I don't like, the government can take many steps to stamp it out. 

It's frankly a little sad. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2022, 12:37:57 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 12:10:27 PM

Government punishes free speech, while saying it’ll punish free speech, and one half of the aisle cheers.

The said truth of that it. Most people who talk a big game about “free speech” would not recognize the principles of it, and love to see it torn down to serve partisan needs.

(that’s not to say those corporate handouts are good, though they are what makes a state “good for business” in the modern parlance. That said, if they were considered bad, they would’ve been pull along time ago. This is just a government effort to punish free speech)

Its not a matter of free speech that got the Florida legislature's dander up

Its the fact that Disney has stated that they will use every resource they have to defeat the Florida bill

Thats just crossing the line coming from a corporation benefiting from special arrangements that the state granted them

Basically Florida is telling Disney that if they are going to act with indifference then why should they get a special arrangement

Florida has taken no action to shut down Disney's right of free speech

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 12:38:31 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 25, 2022, 12:21:46 PM

Seriously, why would the liberals love and protect Disney? It seems the Corp is everything they hate or report to hate.  

They don't. 

But a lot of folks think that open government retaliation for speaking out on public issues is a very, very bad thing. And frankly, we all should. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2022, 12:43:45 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 12:38:31 PM

They don't.

But a lot of folks think that open government retaliation for speaking out on public issues is a very, very bad thing. And frankly, we all should.

Its not a matter of retaliation

Its a matter of not granting special deals to a corporation which is very active to defeat what Florida voters overwhelmingly want

You act like the Florida government is its own being

Its not

Its the Florida voters who are acting

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 12:44:39 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 25, 2022, 12:37:57 PM

Its not a matter of free speech that got the Florida legislature's dander up

Its the fact that Disney has stated that they will use every resource they have to defeat the Florida bill

Thats just crossing the line coming from a corporation benefiting from special arrangements that the state granted them

Basically Florida is telling Disney that if they are going to act with indifference then why should they get a special arrangement

Florida has taken no action to shut down Disney's right of free speech

That's how speech works in a free society. You can not only say you oppose things, you can say you will try to enact change, even if it offends the politicians in charge. 

Again, the government of the state is saying "If you say these things and try to participate in the political process, we will punish you." That it doesn't seem bad to a lot of folks is deeply, deeply worrisome.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 12:47:19 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 25, 2022, 12:43:45 PM

Its not a matter of retaliation

Its a matter of not granting special deals to a corporation which is very active to defeat what Florida voters overwhelmingly want

You act like the Florida government is its own being

Its not

Its the Florida voters who are acting

But Disney could protect itself simply by not speaking or not trying to participate in the political process? Hmmm. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2022, 12:48:35 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 12:44:39 PM

That's how speech works in a free society. You can not only say you oppose things, you can say you will try to enact change, even if it offends the politicians in charge.

Again, the government of the state is saying "If you say these things and try to participate in the political process, we will punish you." That it doesn't seem bad to a lot of folks is deeply, deeply worrisome.

again the Florida government is not its own entity 

Its the people of Florida doing this

and also again no action was taken to close down Disney but only not to treat them special

you can call it hurting free speech all you want but it just isnt

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 25, 2022, 12:52:50 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 12:38:31 PM

They don't.

But a lot of folks think that open government retaliation for speaking out on public issues is a very, very bad thing. And frankly, we all should.

we're also pretending Disney and YOU or ME or any single individual has equal rights- that oppressing/suppressing our voice is the same as suppressing Disney- a company that has as big a platform as any platform there is.  

it wouldn't be a problem until the board of directors at disney saw fit to use their platform as a means to socially engineer- the same social engineering the teachers union has taken, and in step with a political party's- as if social engineering is the most important and noble cause in the world... 

"no law written by man that counters the laws of nature will stand the test of time".... yet... that is precisely what is happening... and the social engineering is and has impacted the aspects that are far more important... not to mention wrecking any recovering relations that was naturally occurring... and for what? 

get woke go broke.  it's a pretty sensible position to adopt- with evidence to back it up.  pretending, through media no matter if print, broadcast, or social that one side is massively more popular than another- which is precisely what is happening- is backfiring.... and it should... 

and the curious thing?  i don't know a soul who gives a damn if someone is gay, or trans, or wants to pretend they're plumbed differently depending on the whatever catalyst they choose- people just don't care.  people don't care if someone is black or white or anywhere in between- what color their hair is or if they have a tooth or not... it just doesn't matter... but... we're TOLD it DOES matter, and it matters SO much everything needs to come to a complete stop and we should divide and hate others that don't share our position.... which is what Disney/ESPN has and is doing... along with Twitter and FB/Insta... and all the major networks... and having a voice massively larger than any one single individual, they demand protection under the same contract as individuals... that's some cowardly shit right there. 

and... that is at the heart of all this... at what point should there be limitations on what you can say if you're NOT a person but a corporation?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 25, 2022, 12:54:56 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on April 25, 2022, 12:22:52 PM

The reason that the Fantastic Beasts films are floundering is that A) the scripts are junk, and B) very few are interested in a grown-up Wizarding World.  Jo Rowling is getting into the screenplay business, instead of writing novels and then having screenwriters adapt them. Novels and screenplays are NOT the same.

As for the Disney special improvement district, what I've seen is that the original enabling legislation has rules and procedures for the operation and dissolution of said district, all of which the State of Florida has just attempted to end-run. Disney is going to keep the district, and the only ones profiting from it will be the lawyers.

They latest Potter film is probably tanking because it lost it’s star- Johnny Depp. Depp is one of the greatest actors in the world and arguably the biggest movie star in the world. Maybe Tom Cruise or Leo are equals. But that’s basically it. 

As for Disney- they shouldn’t have quasi-governmental powers. No god damn corporations should. Florida really needs to get rid of CDD’s altogether period. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 12:59:03 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 25, 2022, 12:48:35 PM

again the Florida government is not its own entity

Its the people of Florida doing this

and also again no action was taken to close down Disney but only not to treat them special

you can call it hurting free speech all you want but it just isnt

I'm sorry, "The government=the people" is a silly sidestep. In this country, you are allowed to advocate for unpopular opinions. And the government, even if it represents the people, retaliating against unpopular opinions runs counter to every functional definition of free speech. 

The action was taken to make life harder for them economically. That's retaliation. I think we're in agreement that they shouldn't receive a special dispensation (lots of businesses shouldn't), but if you take that dispensation away for directly opposing the party in power, it's antithetical to the first amendment and some of the baseline principles of our society. 

And if the explanation is, my side should be able to chill speech at many turns, but also be able to use the property of others for my speech, even if they don't want me to, I'm afraid we are truly lost as a society. It's a shame, really. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 25, 2022, 01:01:51 PM

by the way... 

disney has strict rules about face actors... they can't talk on social media about anything to do with the job... they can't even tell anyone what role they play in the parks... they must stay in character at all times while in costume... then actors who have their face covered can't speak a single word while in costume... to nobody for any reason... it's apparently a firing offense to do so. 

oh, the irony. 

disney wants to play the role of private corporation and employ these rules without any opportunity for recourse- they actually bring in thousands of eastern europeans under contract to work- many completely unvetted by our DoS... they tell ALL to "booger off- this is our business not yours".. 

however.....

step on their 'rights'? the same rights ensured by the BoR and first ten in the Constitution?  They scream foul... 

this is a rich subject.... and absurd at every turn.  and it's only in the light due to a platform being used to implement change that agrees with a political side, and represents a small fraction of the populace the media wants us to believe is legion.... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 25, 2022, 01:04:37 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 12:59:03 PM

I'm sorry, "The government=the people" is a silly sidestep. In this country, you are allowed to advocate for unpopular opinions. And the government, even if it represents the people, retaliating against unpopular opinions runs counter to every functional definition of free speech.

The action was taken to make life harder for them economically. That's retaliation. I think we're in agreement that they shouldn't receive a special dispensation (lots of businesses shouldn't), but if you take that dispensation away for directly opposing the party in power, it's antithetical to the first amendment and some of the baseline principles of our society.

And if the explanation is, my side should be able to chill speech at many turns, but also be able to use the property of others for my speech, even if they don't want me to, I'm afraid we are truly lost as a society. It's a shame, really.

and again, you're pretending Disney should be managed the same as a person with inalienable rights... which, legally and because of corporation status they are... but you know as well as I do that is a loophole that needs to be closed.  Disney, though enjoying the same rights as you or me, has the individual ability to influence hundreds of thousands of votes- and they do influence... and therein lies the issue.  

how to fix it? 

hellifiknow. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 01:09:15 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 25, 2022, 12:52:50 PM

it wouldn't be a problem until the board of directors at disney saw fit to use their platform as a means to socially engineer- the same social engineering the teachers union has taken, and in step with a political party's- as if social engineering is the most important and noble cause in the world...

What I’m seeing here is that they wouldn’t have a problem if they didn’t freely speak on an issue of high political interest. That if they agreed with the majority, and the politicians in power, they simply would not be punished for that speech.

(While it might be interesting to relitigate corporate personhood, for the moment, that is the law of the land. Citizens United made sure corporate persons had wide ranging speech rights. And if businesses can get punished for stances they take, we will be looking forward to a future of the government exacting more control over businesses overall)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 25, 2022, 01:12:47 PM

And in order to kill corporate personhood, you need to go a lot further back than Citizens United.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 01:14:28 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 25, 2022, 01:01:51 PM

by the way...

disney has strict rules about face actors... they can't talk on social media about anything to do with the job... they can't even tell anyone what role they play in the parks... they must stay in character at all times while in costume... then actors who have their face covered can't speak a single word while in costume... to nobody for any reason... it's apparently a firing offense to do so.

oh, the irony.

disney wants to play the role of private corporation and employ these rules without any opportunity for recourse- they actually bring in thousands of eastern europeans under contract to work- many completely unvetted by our DoS... they tell ALL to "booger off- this is our business not yours"..

however.....

step on their 'rights'? the same rights ensured by the BoR and first ten in the Constitution?  They scream foul...

Yes, the government has a much, much higher standard when it comes to first amendment protections than private entities. That's how this works. 

If we want to get further down the road of government micromanaging private businesses, that's another convo, but I don't think one a lot of folks want to have. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 01:15:28 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on April 25, 2022, 01:12:47 PM

And in order to kill corporate personhood, you need to go a lot further back than Citizens United.

Very true. But that case did break down barriers we had limiting them from certain kinds of speech. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 25, 2022, 01:25:29 PM

if things didn't move as fast as they do nowadays, with tweets and posts and media 24 hours- the economics of it all would sort it out.  it would sort it out in a manner that all would be reasonably happy.  

but instead, we believe in what we're told be people who live in a bubble and spin what news they care to share with us in a way that serves their agenda. 

this is the mess that will destroy this nation. it truly is... 

if the sun were to flare as never seen before, taking out every grid there is- the world would be an ugly place for a while- then it would settle into civility as we realize how much more binds us than separates us... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 25, 2022, 01:37:01 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 01:15:28 PM

Very true. But that case did break down barriers we had limiting them from certain kinds of speech.

money does not = speech. corporations do not = people. 

nothing will get fixed in this country until those two problems are fixed. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2022, 01:40:39 PM

Corporations have always had SOME of the same rights as people, individuals.  One can draw the line here or there of course.  Citizen's U was about a movie.

And I'd opine those with MONEY have more capacity for speech than those without.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 02:07:15 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 25, 2022, 01:40:39 PM

Corporations have always had SOME of the same rights as people, individuals.  One can draw the line here or there of course.  Citizen's U was about a movie.

And I'd opine those with MONEY have more capacity for speech than those without.

More capacity to make truly free speech difficult as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2022, 02:09:37 PM

A wealthy person has more power than the rest of us, over the gamut.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2022, 02:24:35 PM

Analysis of notable trends: Halfway through fiscal year 2022, the cumulative deficit has fallen relative to last year and is now comparable to pre-COVID deficits. Through the first six months of FY2022, the federal government ran a deficit of $667 billion, 61% less than at the same point in FY2021 ($1.7 trillion) and in the ballpark of the FY2019 and FY2020 deficits, which stood at $691 billion and $743 billion, respectively.  

Revenues remained strong, rising $418 billion (25%) from the same period in FY2021 to a total of $2.1 trillion during this fiscal year to date. Increases in individual income and payroll tax receipts rose by $357 billion (24%) and drove much of the overall surge in receipts. Higher total wages and salaries, especially among upper-income workers who are subject to higher tax rates, contributed to the increase in those tax revenues, as did the receipt of some payroll taxes that pandemic relief legislation authorized companies to defer from 2020 into 2021. Corporate income tax revenues rose by $22 billion (22%) year-over-year.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2022, 02:44:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 25, 2022, 02:24:35 PM

Analysis of notable trends: Halfway through fiscal year 2022, the cumulative deficit has fallen relative to last year and is now comparable to pre-COVID deficits. Through the first six months of FY2022, the federal government ran a deficit of $667 billion, 61% less than at the same point in FY2021 ($1.7 trillion) and in the ballpark of the FY2019 and FY2020 deficits, which stood at $691 billion and $743 billion, respectively. 

Revenues remained strong, rising $418 billion (25%) from the same period in FY2021 to a total of $2.1 trillion during this fiscal year to date. Increases in individual income and payroll tax receipts rose by $357 billion (24%) and drove much of the overall surge in receipts. Higher total wages and salaries, especially among upper-income workers who are subject to higher tax rates, contributed to the increase in those tax revenues, as did the receipt of some payroll taxes that pandemic relief legislation authorized companies to defer from 2020 into 2021. Corporate income tax revenues rose by $22 billion (22%) year-over-year. 

Thats great 

We should reelect the Potted Plant for another 4 years

That way we will have another 2 or 3 million illegals pour into this country give them cell phones and free medical care and make them citizens

Our inflation rate will make Venezuela look like a Swiss Bank

and our fuel price will be $12/gal

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 25, 2022, 02:47:36 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 25, 2022, 02:44:59 PM

Thats great

We should reelect the Potted Plant for another 4 years

That way we will have another 2 or 3 million illegals pour into this country give them cell phones and free medical care and make them citizens

Our inflation rate will make Venezuela look like a Swiss Bank

and our fuel price will be $12/gal

But hey- he can keep raising taxes.  Take from those who have/ produce- give to those don’t have/don’t produce.  Socialism.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 25, 2022, 03:15:54 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 01:09:15 PM

What I’m seeing here is that they wouldn’t have a problem if they didn’t freely speak on an issue of high political interest. That if they agreed with the majority, and the politicians in power, they simply would not be punished for that speech.

(While it might be interesting to relitigate corporate personhood, for the moment, that is the law of the land. Citizens United made sure corporate persons had wide ranging speech rights. And if businesses can get punished for stances they take, we will be looking forward to a future of the government exacting more control over businesses overall)

I would like to know who specifically is being jailed for free speech at Disney? They still enjoy free speech even now. However, sometimes that speech comes with consequences. They decided that instead of being a theme park and an entertainment industry, they wanted to dive into politics. Well guess what? They are now knee deep in politics. 

Personally, I hope Disney goes bankrupt and is taken apart and sold off to the highest bidder. It won't happen, but I can dream. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2022, 04:00:26 PM

It was just announced that twitter has accepted Musk's bid

Let the free speech begin

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 04:04:28 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 25, 2022, 03:15:54 PM

I would like to know who specifically is being jailed for free speech at Disney? They still enjoy free speech even now. However, sometimes that speech comes with consequences. They decided that instead of being a theme park and an entertainment industry, they wanted to dive into politics. Well guess what? They are now knee deep in politics.

So what you're saying is you feel good about the government, either side, imposing consequences on businesses for engaging in political speech, as long as it's short of jailing people?

I guess we have different outlooks on this. But as long as you're fine with the potted plant in charge or Gavin Newsom handing out those consequences, your position makes coherent sense.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 25, 2022, 04:06:40 PM

Had no idea a certain someone here is a libtard/shitlib and it sorta amazes me that they still don’t know what free speech actually is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 25, 2022, 04:09:09 PM

Disney did not just “ speak on it”.

That’s a false narrative.  They said they were going to engage in a legal battle with a mission to get that legislation overturned.  There is a big difference there. 

“Our goal as a company is for this law to be repealed by the legislature or struck down in the courts, and we remain committed to supporting the national and state organizations working to achieve that.” 

The statement added: “We are dedicated to standing up for the rights and safety of LGBTQ+ members of the Disney family, as well as the LGBTQ+ community in Florida and across the country.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2022, 04:14:28 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 04:04:28 PM

So what you're saying is you feel good about the government, either side, imposing consequences on businesses for engaging in political speech, as long as it's short of jailing people?

I guess we have different outlooks on this. But as long as you're fine with the potted plant in charge or Gavin Newsom handing out those consequences, your position makes coherent sense.

Florida citizens brought this to the legislature and governor. They won't want their little kids learning about nuts and glory holes and trans and whatever else. It can wait until high school, if even then. Let kids be kids. Jeez.

So it's really Disney against the people of Florida, isn't it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 04:16:00 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 25, 2022, 04:06:40 PM

Had no idea a certain someone here is a libtard/shitlib and it sorta amazes me that they still don’t know what free speech actually is.

Sorry I don’t share your paste eating partisan understanding of the world. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2022, 04:16:32 PM

Trump just said he has no plans to get back on twitter but thinks Musk purchase is a good thing


He has his own social network.  Theres no doubt in my mind he will post often on twitter when the change takes place.  JMHO

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 04:17:26 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 25, 2022, 04:09:09 PM

Disney did not just “ speak on it”.

That’s a false narrative.  They said they were going to engage in a legal battle with a mission to get that legislation overturned.  There is a big difference there.

“Our goal as a company is for this law to be repealed by the legislature or struck down in the courts, and we remain committed to supporting the national and state organizations working to achieve that.”

The statement added: “We are dedicated to standing up for the rights and safety of LGBTQ+ members of the Disney family, as well as the LGBTQ+ community in Florida and across the country.”

Ahhh, so the government can also punish you for engaging in the legal/political process. Good to know.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2022, 04:21:19 PM

Isnt it amazing how posts just disappear 

course maybe I dreamed them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 04:22:39 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2022, 04:14:28 PM

Florida citizens brought this to the legislature and governor. They won't want their little kids learning about nuts and glory holes and trans and whatever else. It can wait until high school, if even then. Let kids be kids. Jeez.

So it's really Disney against the people of Florida, isn't it?

Wouldn’t that imply that opposing the government at any point is opposing the people? That seems flimsy at best.

(FWIW, one can actively oppose teaching certain things to those kids, and still find fault in parts of that law. The weirdest thing is that those pols didn’t even include glory holes in the law. Seems like they don’t have an opinion there)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 25, 2022, 04:26:21 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 04:17:26 PM

Ahhh, so the government can also punish you for engaging in the legal/political process. Good to know.

You are just now noticing this?  Where do you think the Florida government learned this?

Hint:   If you can’t beat ‘em, join em.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 25, 2022, 04:28:07 PM

A Burbank based, style company- attempting to intimidate- but it just doesn’t work in Florida.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 25, 2022, 04:28:18 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 04:04:28 PM

So what you're saying is you feel good about the government, either side, imposing consequences on businesses for engaging in political speech, as long as it's short of jailing people?

I guess we have different outlooks on this. But as long as you're fine with the potted plant in charge or Gavin Newsom handing out those consequences, your position makes coherent sense.

Well, I am not really excited about the government going after anyone. However, Disney should have stayed out of that sandbox if they didn't want to get dirty. They stuck their nose into politics and are getting a lesson in how that can come back to bite you. 

All of that said, you are probably correct. The Florida gov't probably should not have retaliated the way they did. It does show some pettiness. However I also don't believe that Disney should have had the perks that it has now. 

But what gets me is that the left (not you, but the left in general) is complaining about Disney's right to free speech but are going ballistic over the very real possiblity that Musk is going to restore those rights on Twitter. A classic example of talking out of both sides of their mouths. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 25, 2022, 04:29:24 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 25, 2022, 04:28:18 PM

Well, I am not really excited about the government going after anyone. However, Disney should have stayed out of that sandbox if they didn't want to get dirty. They stuck their nose into politics and are getting a lesson in how that can come back to bite you.

All of that said, you are probably correct. The Florida gov't probably should not have retaliated the way they did. It does show some pettiness. However I also don't believe that Disney should have had the perks that it has now.

But what gets me is that the left (not you, but the left in general) is complaining about Disney's right to free speech but are going ballistic over the very real possiblity that Musk is going to restore those rights on Twitter. A classic example of talking out of both sides of their mouths.

Amen. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 04:33:12 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 25, 2022, 04:26:21 PM

You are just now noticing this?  Where do you think the Florida government learned this?

Hint:  If you can’t beat ‘em, join em. 

Sigh, I guess I thought we’d have some agreement that it was not a good thing. 

But I suppose agreement is in short supply all over.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2022, 04:34:27 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 04:22:39 PM

Wouldn’t that imply that opposing the government at any point is opposing the people? That seems flimsy at best.

(FWIW, one can actively oppose teaching certain things to those kids, and still find fault in parts of that law. The weirdest thing is that those pols didn’t even include glory holes in the law. Seems like they don’t have an opinion there)

We'll know a lot more come November, right?

We certainly learned a lot about this topic from the Virginia elections last year too, yes?

Parents want their schools back. They want their kids to learn to read, write, solve math problems, learn natural sciences.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2022, 04:36:31 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 04:33:12 PM

Sigh, I guess I thought we’d have some agreement that it was not a good thing.

But I suppose agreement is in short supply all over.

I am in agreement with everything NOB posted above. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 04:44:21 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 25, 2022, 04:28:18 PM

Well, I am not really excited about the government going after anyone. However, Disney should have stayed out of that sandbox if they didn't want to get dirty. They stuck their nose into politics and are getting a lesson in how that can come back to bite you.

All of that said, you are probably correct. The Florida gov't probably should not have retaliated the way they did. It does show some pettiness. However I also don't believe that Disney should have had the perks that it has now.

But what gets me is that the left (not you, but the left in general) is complaining about Disney's right to free speech but are going ballistic over the very real possiblity that Musk is going to restore those rights on Twitter. A classic example of talking out of both sides of their mouths.

While we're clearly split on the first paragraph, we're mostly in agreement with the last two. 

If Florida had stripped Disney of its handouts independent of a spat over some law, I'd applaud it (there are a couple of interesting discussion points about the pros and cons of those handouts to various businesses, but that's another story). 

The twitter about face is mostly silly, though I'd have a slight nit to pick that no one really has "rights" on twitter, other than the owner having the right to host or not host what it wants. That said, the owner was someone they tacitly agreed with before. Now it's someone they don't agree with, and the same rules apply. And even if one didn't think Elon would live up to the free speech promises, it's his sandbox now, and them's the breaks. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2022, 04:58:51 PM

and what if Musk allows anyone thats a real person to say anything they want assuming its not illegal 

If they think the election was stolen they can say it

If they think Trump is a racist they can say it

what effect will this have

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 25, 2022, 05:25:39 PM

Savage tactics.. my ex wife was wonderful at them.  My current wife is no stranger to them.  Those born with plumbing interior to the vessel are gifted with savage tactics intrinsically. 

It's defined as fluidly transitioning from specific to general without warning and with fancy speed, leaving an adversary confounded and dazed, and claiming victory before the tactic can be identified. 

Theyre in play here. 

Let's be damn clear.  Not a single person I know who is a rational human being gives a simple damn about lgbqlmnop community one way or the other- they're just people.  People, including us, do weird shit.  And noble shit.  And all kinds of in between. 

The issue is Disney using their platform to promote fringe lifestyles.  A platform where they themselves employ savage tactics... they point back as if this is an assault on a group of people and it is absolutely not that at all... it is them using their platform to engineer change while targeting the most vulnerable of our species.  Period. 

Same with the teachers union and in public schools.  Same with network media, print media, and social media- all pretending science is maliable to the whims of their will...

Remove the name Disney and let those idiots speak about what they will... theyve a right to.  And we have a right to call them whatever we want to call them either in support or ridicule... but... hide behind the corporate veil and from drivers seat of an institution that has clout greater than just about any other?  ..... thats a problem. 

Them acting as if victims?  That.... is rich.  They are victims because they are finding resistance to is their platform to foster change that represents a small but powerful fraction of our population.  Theyre victims because they are not being allowed to victimize.  It's not a lot different than a rapist claiming to be a victim because they weren't allowed to rape- the horror.  The unfairness.  The freakin absurdity. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 05:31:02 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 25, 2022, 04:58:51 PM

and what if Musk allows anyone thats a real person to say anything they want assuming its not illegal

If they think the election was stolen they can say it

If they think Trump is a racist they can say it

what effect will this have

On the larger world or the site itself?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2022, 05:33:31 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 05:31:02 PM

On the larger world or the site itself?

Im talking about twitter not sure why this confused you

when I say Musk allows how could that be the whole world

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 25, 2022, 05:33:58 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 25, 2022, 04:58:51 PM

and what if Musk allows anyone thats a real person to say anything they want assuming its not illegal

If they think the election was stolen they can say it

If they think Trump is a racist they can say it

what effect will this have

Are ya being obtuse? (@Cincydawg will get that).... 

The entire premise of owning the media et al is to control the narrative and force the agenda of the small group of radicals... right now we're to believe some of these groups account for as much as 40% of the population?  ..... and people follow the herd.  People are afraid, because they lack fortitude, to speak what they believe and watch as others pretend they're legion.... and they're not.  

I wager as soon as musk takes the reigns the next victim will be the scores and scores of robots.  Poof- gone.  That alone will even the along field.  

Like it or not, and I don't, Twitter and other social media functions are considered by the users to be public property and they believe their rights are protected.. . Which they aren't. They're at the whims of those who control it- and in this case a board of directors that hardly represented 5% combined of ownership prior to musks run on them... same with disney/abc/ESPN,  fox, NBC and cbs.. all providing a perspective that these fringe groups are mainstream, and they aren't even close.  

And the interesting thing is nobody would give a single red damn about someone else's life choices of they weren't told to... which means the separation amd strife is purposeful.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2022, 05:39:54 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 25, 2022, 05:33:58 PM

I wager as soon as musk takes the reigns the next victim will be the scores and scores of robots.  Poof- gone.  That alone will even the along field. 

Musk has already stated he intends to get rid of non humans on twitter

I cant wait to see the lefts reaction

If a laptop is discovered discussion of it wont be banned for an election

If a party feels they were cheated in an election discussion of it wont be banned

Its a new day and thank God

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 05:58:44 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 25, 2022, 05:33:31 PM

Im talking about twitter not sure why this confused you

when I say Musk allows how could that be the whole world

Well you could have meant it in the sense of does a free and open twitter have any effect on there world in general? (I assume people have strong feelings on Twitter for it's ability to impact more than just Twitter)

On the actual question you asked, it's an interesting question.

Assuming the standard is "legal," probably lots of porn, weird kinds of it. Other sorts of gross stuff. Legal is a pretty broad category. 

There's the question of how much a user's own curation protects them from that. Maybe that solves the issue, and people who don't want to are spared some of that. 

What usually happens is social networks start with the promise of being hands off, and then have to run through the various issues tied into that, as people on the internet are often gross/mean/unpleasant beyond belief. If the general tone of a hands-off social media network touch all users, a lot will leave simply because they don't feel good about it and it's not worth their time. And eventually the people running it will tighten the moderation to a point where it's a place some mass of people feel good spending time. 

If they stay really hands off, Twitter likely gets more unpleasant and loses users. If not, we'll just have to see where the moderation standards land. (I know some of the alternatives that came around ran into the issue that they slanted to one side of the aisle, and because there was no good faith opposition to troll, it wasn't very fun, especially when the bad faith opposition just dropped by to troll and be annoying)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2022, 06:03:34 PM

I agree, "legal" is replete with loopholes and the potential for disgusting stuff.  Any limits will be qualitative in nature, subject to judgment.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 06:05:18 PM

Oh, a follow up. The authenticating accounts as "human" is going to be interesting. I assume they'll still leave anonymity as an option. But I wonder to a degree. 

(My account is attached to my own name, which is good because it forces me to act like an adult, though it doesn't have that effect on a great many)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 25, 2022, 06:19:53 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 06:05:18 PM

Oh, a follow up. The authenticating accounts as "human" is going to be interesting. I assume they'll still leave anonymity as an option. But I wonder to a degree.

(My account is attached to my own name, which is good because it forces me to act like an adult, though it doesn't have that effect on a great many)

Try this one on for starters: 

(https://i.imgur.com/grKsF4z.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on April 25, 2022, 06:31:50 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 12:47:19 PM

But Disney could protect itself simply by not speaking or not trying to participate in the political process? Hmmm.

Or Just not take the special status that the government gave them.  It has been decided a long time ago by the courts, if you accept benefits from the government then you are governed by the rules of the government.  

I use to work for a legal aid society who received the majority of their funds from the federal government, their "speech" was quite restricted if they wanted to continue to be funded.

The federal government should not fund "political" speech because then the government gets to decide what "political" speech is acceptable.  Rather no political speech if you are funded by the government or have political speech but no funds from the government. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on April 25, 2022, 06:37:21 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 04:17:26 PM

Ahhh, so the government can also punish you for engaging in the legal/political process. Good to know.

They can only punish you if you take benefits from them.  So choose have special tax status, lose it if you use political Speech or don't take it and speak all you want.  Ask the churches and non-profits who have lost their 503(c) status for political speech. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2022, 06:38:16 PM

The special status was useful in developing the infrastructure Disney needed and local governments could not provide.

I view this as a stupid move for political optics very likely not to happen at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 07:10:32 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on April 25, 2022, 06:31:50 PM

Or Just not take the special status that the government gave them.  It has been decided a long time ago by the courts, if you accept benefits from the government then you are governed by the rules of the government. 

I use to work for a legal aid society who received the majority of their funds from the federal government, their "speech" was quite restricted if they wanted to continue to be funded.

The federal government should not fund "political" speech because then the government gets to decide what "political" speech is acceptable.  Rather no political speech if you are funded by the government or have political speech but no funds from the government.

Two questions:

1. what kind of speech was capped at the legal aid society?
2. How does that jive with the fact that government employees enjoy immense speech protections? 

(I actually forgot about the San Antonio chick Fil A case. Which seems like it shows some level of protection. That said, I doubt it’s actionable, owing to the sort of natural gaps in our legal system,  it it should be somewhat concurring if you believe in broad based freedom of speech that’s protected from the government) 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2022, 08:34:50 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 05:58:44 PM

Well you could have meant it in the sense of does a free and open twitter have any effect on there world in general? (I assume people have strong feelings on Twitter for it's ability to impact more than just Twitter)

On the actual question you asked, it's an interesting question.

Assuming the standard is "legal," probably lots of porn, weird kinds of it. Other sorts of gross stuff. Legal is a pretty broad category.

There's the question of how much a user's own curation protects them from that. Maybe that solves the issue, and people who don't want to are spared some of that.

What usually happens is social networks start with the promise of being hands off, and then have to run through the various issues tied into that, as people on the internet are often gross/mean/unpleasant beyond belief. If the general tone of a hands-off social media network touch all users, a lot will leave simply because they don't feel good about it and it's not worth their time. And eventually the people running it will tighten the moderation to a point where it's a place some mass of people feel good spending time.

What has been happening in social networks is a tightening of speech against the right and open season for the lefties.

Dont agree that a free speech environment will run off customers but we shall see

I think youre gonna see a lot of pressure on other social networks to follow Musk's model

If they stay really hands off, Twitter likely gets more unpleasant and loses users. If not, we'll just have to see where the moderation standards land. (I know some of the alternatives that came around ran into the issue that they slanted to one side of the aisle, and because there was no good faith opposition to troll, it wasn't very fun, especially when the bad faith opposition just dropped by to troll and be annoying)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 08:49:02 PM

"What has been happening in social networks is a tightening of speech against the right and open season for the lefties. 

Dont agree that a free speech environment will run off customers but we shall see."

I was referring to the pair of conservative-founded, free speech-promising would-be twitter competitors that have both struggled mightily and fallen into pretty traditional moderation. 

If Musk's approach changes the paradigm, that'll certianly be something. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2022, 08:52:15 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 08:49:02 PM

"What has been happening in social networks is a tightening of speech against the right and open season for the lefties.

Dont agree that a free speech environment will run off customers but we shall see."

I was referring to the pair of conservative-founded, free speech-promising would-be twitter competitors that have both struggled mightily and fallen into pretty traditional moderation.

If Musk's approach changes the paradigm, that'll certianly be something.

agree

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 25, 2022, 09:01:26 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 06:05:18 PM

Oh, a follow up. The authenticating accounts as "human" is going to be interesting. I assume they'll still leave anonymity as an option. But I wonder to a degree.

(My account is attached to my own name, which is good because it forces me to act like an adult, though it doesn't have that effect on a great many)

Yeah, unfortunately, read the comments section of any news article, hidden and you would be shocked at what people will put their name on

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 25, 2022, 09:09:44 PM

Quote from: ELA on April 25, 2022, 09:01:26 PM

Yeah, unfortunately, read the comments section of any news article, hidden and you would be shocked at what people will put their name on

That's America.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 25, 2022, 09:34:25 PM

https://twitter.com/FOS/status/1518742197805400064?t=FXn3ZLSRSG2end6ed14BZg&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on April 26, 2022, 12:58:35 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 07:10:32 PM

Two questions:

1. what kind of speech was capped at the legal aid society?
2. How does that jive with the fact that government employees enjoy immense speech protections?

(I actually forgot about the San Antonio chick Fil A case. Which seems like it shows some level of protection. That said, I doubt it’s actionable, owing to the sort of natural gaps in our legal system,  it it should be somewhat concurring if you believe in broad based freedom of speech that’s protected from the government)

Could not advocate for candidates as a firm.  Could not advocate for or against ballot initiatives.  Could not take on certain  types of cases. 

Employees have protection as individuals but cannot advocate as an agency.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2022, 05:36:53 AM

Any SM platform is going to have some kind of moderation.  Some could be surprised how little TWTR actually changes after some headline changes early on.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2022, 06:23:11 AM

So Jack Dorsey approves of Elon taking Twitter private.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2022, 07:14:44 AM

When conspiracy theorists falsely posted that Gates was paying to develop Covid vaccines to implant chips in people, Twitter down-ranked the content and added fact-check notices. If Musk were running Twitter then, would he have left those posts up to needle his nemesis?

The deal will give Musk enormous influence over politicians, celebrities and the media, with the ability to platform and de-platform them at will.

But some will have sway over him, too, in ways that could distort what the public sees on Twitter. For example, Twitter has no presence in China. Musk does: A huge chunk of Tesla’s growth is dependent on that country. What happens when Chinese officials tell him to remove content from Twitter that they find objectionable?

Back here in the U.S., Musk’s SpaceX business relies, in large part, on contracts with the Defense Department. His Tesla business is in discussions with the U.S. government about a national charging station infrastructure. His Boring Company, which digs tunnels, relies on governments for contracts. If a politician that controls the purse strings for any of Musk’s companies were to publish misinformation, would Musk remove it?

There are no answers to these questions just yet. But we will find out soon. Likely on Twitter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2022, 07:19:42 AM

Would anyone be surprised if he just simply kills Twitter, for the good of this country?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2022, 07:28:45 AM

Something else would crop up to replace it aside from Trump's thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 26, 2022, 07:34:39 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/Rf8LTUf.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 26, 2022, 09:29:49 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2022, 07:19:42 AM

Would anyone be surprised if he just simply kills Twitter, for the good of this country?

Yep. 

If anything is clear through all this, the man really, really likes twitter. It could be his final act of masterful trolling, but I’d at least be surprised.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2022, 09:49:55 AM

Nothing that guy does surprises me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 26, 2022, 09:54:01 AM

Including pissing away $43 billion?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 26, 2022, 10:05:19 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on April 26, 2022, 09:54:01 AM

Including pissing away $43 billion?

The man has built Tesla, SpaceX and a tunnel boring company. I would say that he knows quite a bit about making money. I will trust that he knows what he is doing in this case also.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2022, 10:24:02 AM

if making more money is his objective

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 10:41:26 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 26, 2022, 10:05:19 AM

The man has built Tesla, SpaceX and a tunnel boring company. I would say that he knows quite a bit about making money. I will trust that he knows what he is doing in this case also.

don't forget PayPal. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 10:42:06 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2022, 06:23:11 AM

So Jack Dorsey approves of Elon taking Twitter private.

Dorsey got his balls chopped off by Twitter's board. I'm sure he's thrilled that Elon is taking it private and will be firing everyone on said board.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 10:42:49 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 26, 2022, 07:28:45 AM

Something else would crop up to replace it aside from Trump's thing.

Trump's social media platform is like a month away from failure. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 10:44:06 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 26, 2022, 05:36:53 AM

Any SM platform is going to have some kind of moderation.  Some could be surprised how little TWTR actually changes after some headline changes early on.

my guess: Trump and Babylon Bee and accounts banned for no valid reason at all will be back online. It will basically be anything goes save for actually you know, breaking the law. As it should be.

Twitter is going to change a lot. Musk didn't just drop $44 billion on it to maintain status quo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 10:45:31 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on April 26, 2022, 09:54:01 AM

Including pissing away $43 billion?

that's essentially what he just did. Even if he turns Twitter around he'll never see that money back. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 10:45:59 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 26, 2022, 10:24:02 AM

if making more money is his objective

Lol. Twitter is an absolute horseshit dogshit loser of a company. He'll never make money on it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 10:50:54 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 26, 2022, 07:14:44 AM

When conspiracy theorists falsely posted that Gates was paying to develop Covid vaccines to implant chips in people, Twitter down-ranked the content and added fact-check notices. If Musk were running Twitter then, would he have left those posts up to needle his nemesis?

The deal will give Musk enormous influence over politicians, celebrities and the media, with the ability to platform and de-platform them at will.

But some will have sway over him, too, in ways that could distort what the public sees on Twitter. For example, Twitter has no presence in China. Musk does: A huge chunk of Tesla’s growth is dependent on that country. What happens when Chinese officials tell him to remove content from Twitter that they find objectionable?

Back here in the U.S., Musk’s SpaceX business relies, in large part, on contracts with the Defense Department. His Tesla business is in discussions with the U.S. government about a national charging station infrastructure. His Boring Company, which digs tunnels, relies on governments for contracts. If a politician that controls the purse strings for any of Musk’s companies were to publish misinformation, would Musk remove it?

There are no answers to these questions just yet. But we will find out soon. Likely on Twitter.

that is all astoundingly stupid bullshit. whoever wrote this is a literal retard.

Social media/Tech/Internet companies infinitely more powerful and influential than Twitter are already owned and controlled by/on the whims of billionaires. It's like the moron who wrote that never heard of Facebook and Mark Zuckerberg. Or Google and Larry Page and Sergey Brin. Or Amazon and Jeff Bezos and the Washington Post. Facebook has like 2-3 billion users. Twitter might have 250 million- most of which are freaking trash bots. Google may very well just be the most powerful company on planet earth. Amazon isn't far behind. And Google/Amazon have massive government contracts as well. Amazon has a f**king $1 billion contract with the f***king CIA for motherf***k sake. Twitter is a f**king peon compared to any of those companies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 10:54:42 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2022, 07:19:42 AM

Would anyone be surprised if he just simply kills Twitter, for the good of this country?

if only he could buy Facebook and delete that too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 26, 2022, 10:55:38 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 26, 2022, 10:24:02 AM

if making more money is his objective

That is my answer to someone stating that he is pissing away $43 billion. I think he knows what he is doing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 11:03:25 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 26, 2022, 10:55:38 AM

That is my answer to someone stating that he is pissing away $43 billion. I think he knows what he is doing.

he knows what he's doing for sure- he's a brilliant man- but he would NOT be buying Twitter if his goal was to make a lot of money. 

Twitter has never made money and it never will. It's too niche and it's never going to be adopted by billions of people like Facebook/Instagram. It has none of the upside of Snapchat either. He will never make any real money from this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 26, 2022, 11:06:33 AM

Most of his net worth is tied up in his Tesla holdings, which means he'll need to pull $3B a year out of Twitter to pay for the financing. The company only reached that kind of revenue last year. It won't take long before Twitter ends up like so many other newspapers in the country.

In other words, I'm much closer to the "he's pissing away $43B" camp than I may have let on.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 11:06:38 AM

Jeff Bezos flapping his gums now about Elon Musk buying Twitter. Pot meet kettle. Jesus Christ I hate that guy with the passion of 10,000 burning suns. He's just the biggest dweeb asswipe douchebag in the history of history. He's such a f***king penis. I f***king hate him and I f***king hate Amazon. I would love it if someone beat the f**k out of him on live tv.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 11:08:48 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on April 26, 2022, 11:06:33 AM

Most of his net worth is tied up in his Tesla holdings, which means he'll need to pull $3B a year out of Twitter to pay for the financing. The company only reached that kind of revenue last year. It won't take long before Twitter ends up like so many other newspapers in the country.

In other words, I'm much closer to the "he's pissing away $43B" camp than I may have let on.

he 100% pissed away $43 billion. Twitter is a sh*thole company that's not worth two nickels. he's not doing this for the economics of it- he flat out said that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 26, 2022, 11:15:46 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 11:06:38 AM

Jeff Bezos flapping his gums now about Elon Musk buying Twitter. Pot meet kettle. Jesus Christ I hate that guy with the passion of 10,000 burning suns. He's just the biggest dweeb asswipe douchebag in the history of history. He's such a f***king penis. I f***king hate him and I f***king hate Amazon. I would love it if someone beat the f**k out of him on live tv.

Think you left out woke,snowflake corksocker.There are a lot of people who need the F*** beat out of them.The Republican right that sold middle class jobs down the river and over seas and and the Hollywood left that thinks evry impetent creep is somehow a victim.And hand outs abound for those who never have or will work for it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 11:25:11 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 25, 2022, 04:16:00 PM

Sorry I don’t share your paste eating partisan understanding of the world.

think you got it confused on which one of us is partisan. kinda like you're confused on what free speech is. 

Disney is not "being punished" nor having their "free speech restricted". Disney World enjoys a special privilege as a quasi-governmental district which Florida government gives them. It's not a right- and they are not entitled to said privilege. That privilege can be taken away. And it should be. 

I find it hilarious that "liberals" - who are't even really liberals anymore- what they really are are shitlibs/libtards - are railing against stripping special privileges away from filthy money grubbing corporations with a history of insane abuse like Disney has (sweatshops, anyone!). I thought these people hated corporations and want to tax the rich. Now they love 'em. Lol. 

Disney can go f**k itself. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 26, 2022, 11:38:26 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 26, 2022, 07:14:44 AM

When conspiracy theorists falsely posted that Gates was paying to develop Covid vaccines to implant chips in people, Twitter down-ranked the content and added fact-check notices. If Musk were running Twitter then, would he have left those posts up to needle his nemesis?

Its not social medias job to police what it deems truthful content.  Thats the first step to restricting free speech.

Its up to the reader to decide for themselves what is true and not true not the SM network

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 26, 2022, 11:40:18 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 10:42:49 AM

Trump's social media platform is like a month away from failure.

I dont think he plans for it to replace twitter but as a support tool

I firmly believe he will post again on twitter

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 11:50:32 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 26, 2022, 11:40:18 AM

I dont think he plans for it to replace twitter but as a support tool

I firmly believe he will post again on twitter

well he claims he’s not going back to Twitter, even if he gets unbanned. 

he’s only posted once on his truth social platform and so far it’s been nothing but a dud with weak user engagement. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 11:55:24 AM

6 months ago Netflix share price was around $700. It’s $200 now. The company has lost like 70% of its market cap in just 6 months. Holy. Shit. 

It’s probably a lot of factors. They keep raising their prices. They’ve now announced they are going to crack down on shared passwords. But most importantly- they make mostly junk and crap that no one wants to watch and have gone WAY too far in their “woke” programming. It just turns normal people off. Catering to an incredibly small minority- never works. Ever. Period. It’s backfiring on them. They just came out with some garbage called “he’s expecting” a tv series about a female to male tranny getting pregnant.

You hate to see it. Just kidding you don’t. Go woke, go broke. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 26, 2022, 12:12:20 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 11:25:11 AM

think you got it confused on which one of us is partisan. 

That’s cute

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2022, 12:19:25 PM

. A Grand Rapids, MI police officer, mercilessly and unjustifiably shot a confused and terrified black man in the back of the head while laying on top of him and pushing the defenseless man’s face into the ground. A motivating factor in the officer’s decision to shoot was the man’s race.
2. A Grand Rapids, MI police officer shot a man in the head who had run from a traffic stop, physically resisted arrest and assaulted the officer. The man refused to obey repeated orders and after grabbing the officer’s TASER and attempting to control it, refused to release the TASER after three clear warnings and was finally shot by the officer as a last resort and in complete self-defense.
After reading countless stories and listening to the many opinionated accounts, those are essentially the clashing descriptions concerning a Grand Rapids police officer’s use of deadly force on a man after a traffic stop last week in Michigan. The competing narratives are based on the same set of optic facts which is, four different video sources of the event. The four sources are, dashcam, body cam, cell phone and video surveillance from a residential home.

Calibre Press |Developing Smarter, Safer, More Successful Law Enforcement Officers (https://calibrepress.com/2022/04/is-a-taser-a-deadly-force-weapon-when-utilized-by-a-resistive-subject/?fbclid=IwAR35wv81Yn_WxTDnZti8MDdudRMFcvpVLkvqTLnPoHTsrkVrJjpLeF3jeVc)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 26, 2022, 01:09:11 PM

Truth social is available on PC and in the apple store... it isnt available Droid yet... 

I figure it'll do much better when it's available for Droid. 

It's amazing how the use of personal devices by brand are split between political divides. ... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 26, 2022, 01:13:22 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 26, 2022, 01:09:11 PM

Truth social is available on PC and in the apple store... it isnt available Droid yet...

I figure it'll do much better when it's available for Droid.

It's amazing how the use of personal devices by brand are split between political divides. ...

can someone just view truth social from their laptop

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 01:21:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 26, 2022, 12:19:25 PM

. A Grand Rapids, MI police officer, mercilessly and unjustifiably shot a confused and terrified black man in the back of the head while laying on top of him and pushing the defenseless man’s face into the ground. A motivating factor in the officer’s decision to shoot was the man’s race.
2. A Grand Rapids, MI police officer shot a man in the head who had run from a traffic stop, physically resisted arrest and assaulted the officer. The man refused to obey repeated orders and after grabbing the officer’s TASER and attempting to control it, refused to release the TASER after three clear warnings and was finally shot by the officer as a last resort and in complete self-defense.
After reading countless stories and listening to the many opinionated accounts, those are essentially the clashing descriptions concerning a Grand Rapids police officer’s use of deadly force on a man after a traffic stop last week in Michigan. The competing narratives are based on the same set of optic facts which is, four different video sources of the event. The four sources are, dashcam, body cam, cell phone and video surveillance from a residential home.

Calibre Press |Developing Smarter, Safer, More Successful Law Enforcement Officers (https://calibrepress.com/2022/04/is-a-taser-a-deadly-force-weapon-when-utilized-by-a-resistive-subject/?fbclid=IwAR35wv81Yn_WxTDnZti8MDdudRMFcvpVLkvqTLnPoHTsrkVrJjpLeF3jeVc)

there are definitely abuses by police. heck, I've been a victim of police brutality. 

but in a lot of these cases- you see morons disobeying police officers or trying to fight/argue with them. why they do that- is beyond me. you're never going to win that battle and most likely just going to make things worse for you. 

be polite, courteous, respectful, and compliant with police and you'll be OK 99.99% of the time. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on April 26, 2022, 01:31:45 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 10:45:59 AM

Lol. Twitter is an absolute horseshit dogshit loser of a company. He'll never make money on it.

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 10:50:54 AM

Twitter is a f**king peon compared to any of those companies.

Musk’s takeover of twitter isn’t about money; to him it’s worth losing much of those billions in order to gain private control to unclog and rebalance what is a very one-sided dialogue across twitter, which is the center point of the internet’s official-speak.

Even though only 3% of the U.S. population engages on twitter, that isn’t the point. Twitter’s leverage is that the crux of global journalism and global leadership uses the platform as the launch pad of their public messaging. All before this initial dialogue shapes and molds the front pages and cable news for the rest of the non-twitter population. And because of this, sudden wildfires of public outrage ends up ensnaring positions of power meant to otherwise remain detached from constant crisis.

As one-sided as twitter has become, this means that especially for journalists, the most agenda-driven narratives could not only be unified but also, if logically contested, be used as a point of contrast by which any disagreement could be accused as “hate-speech,” “bigotry,” etc. And because much of corporate America is on twitter, the mere non-responsiveness of their corporate accounts (Disney, Target, Boy Scouts) when such chaotic dialogues emerged could bring them under similar accusations of ““hate-speech,” “bigotry,” etc, which in turn could mount into a costly PR crisis.

Twitter has become a place where its ongoing narratives are leveraged to hold public officials and Fortune 500 CEOs under authoritarian accountability of increasingly more reactive narratives.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 01:42:06 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 26, 2022, 12:12:20 PM

That’s cute

I mean I guess. Didn't take you for a vote blue no matter who, BlueAnon shitlib. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 26, 2022, 01:46:28 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 26, 2022, 12:19:25 PM

. A Grand Rapids, MI police officer, mercilessly and unjustifiably shot a confused and terrified black man in the back of the head while laying on top of him and pushing the defenseless man’s face into the ground. A motivating factor in the officer’s decision to shoot was the man’s race.
2. A Grand Rapids, MI police officer shot a man in the head who had run from a traffic stop, physically resisted arrest and assaulted the officer. The man refused to obey repeated orders and after grabbing the officer’s TASER and attempting to control it, refused to release the TASER after three clear warnings and was finally shot by the officer as a last resort and in complete self-defense.
After reading countless stories and listening to the many opinionated accounts, those are essentially the clashing descriptions concerning a Grand Rapids police officer’s use of deadly force on a man after a traffic stop last week in Michigan. The competing narratives are based on the same set of optic facts which is, four different video sources of the event. The four sources are, dashcam, body cam, cell phone and video surveillance from a residential home.

Calibre Press |Developing Smarter, Safer, More Successful Law Enforcement Officers (https://calibrepress.com/2022/04/is-a-taser-a-deadly-force-weapon-when-utilized-by-a-resistive-subject/?fbclid=IwAR35wv81Yn_WxTDnZti8MDdudRMFcvpVLkvqTLnPoHTsrkVrJjpLeF3jeVc)

Good post CD.  It’s amazing how two completely different versions can be printed based on the exact same set of video clips. By the way I have watch those video clips and I honestly don’t know what the right answer is because it’s really hard to determine what happens in those final few seconds.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 01:55:21 PM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on April 26, 2022, 01:31:45 PM

Musk’s takeover of twitter isn’t about money; to him it’s worth losing much of those billions in order to gain private control to unclog and rebalance what is a very one-sided dialogue across twitter, which is the center point of the internet’s official-speak.

Even though only 3% of the U.S. population engages on twitter, that isn’t the point. Twitter’s leverage is that the crux of global journalism and global leadership uses the platform as the launch pad of their public messaging. All before this initial dialogue shapes and molds the front pages and cable news for the rest of the non-twitter population. And because of this, sudden wildfires of public outrage ends up ensnaring positions of power meant to otherwise remain detached from constant crisis.

As one-sided as twitter has become, this means that especially for journalists, the most agenda-driven narratives could not only be unified but also, if logically contested, be used as a point of contrast by which any disagreement could be accused as “hate-speech,” “bigotry,” etc. And because much of corporate America is on twitter, the mere non-responsiveness of their corporate accounts (Disney, Target, Boy Scouts) when such chaotic dialogues emerged could bring them under similar accusations of ““hate-speech,” “bigotry,” etc, which in turn could mount into a costly PR crisis.

Twitter has become a place where its ongoing narratives are leveraged to hold public officials and Fortune 500 CEOs under authoritarian accountability of increasingly more reactive narratives.

Yeah, and even still Twitter is still not even anywhere near as powerful as Facebook or Google in terms of shaping/controlling opinion/thought and manufacturing consent. Most people get their news from Facebook today. Sad to say. It is now the #1 source Americans turn to for their news. Nearly 40% of adults in a Pew research survey say they turn to Facebook for news. YouTube (Google) was in second with nearly 25% saying they turn there. Twitter was barely 13% in same survey. And forget that alone- Facebook/Google just have WAY more actual human users around the globe. And they generate WAY more $$$$$ from advertising in like a week than Twitter could ever generate in f***king years.

It is not even close. Twitter is nowhere near as powerful, pervasive, or influential as Google or Facebook. It's a complete f**king joke to even compare Twitter to those companies. Google/YouTube is used every single day by billions and billions of users. Ditto Facebook. Twitter probably doesn't even have a 10th of user base and complete sh*t engagement compared to Google and Facebook. 

Elites in the media and democratic operatives in particular are sh**tting their pants and up in arms because of the democratization of information and freedom of thought and speech that Musk will now allow on the platform- the tiniest, most insignificant, least used of the social media platforms if we're being honest here. It will be harder for the establishment to control and bend information how they want to with Twitter basically becoming open source and free and open for everything within the bounds of the law. Which was the promise of the internet- the democratization of information and thought and speech.

Power centers and elite are freaking the f**k out at the idea that they will not be able to control and censor a tiny part of the internet and it has them sh**tting their pants. Loving every minute of it.

Mainstream legacy corporate media is dead if not dying. Fast. Newspaper business is virtually dead save for a handful of them- basically just the papers of record- the WaPost and NY Times. Cable news is in the crapper. As you can see CNN+ failing miserably in almost a month. Cable news has almost no viewership anymore. There are independent YouTube political shows and podcasts that absolutely crush and destroy cable news in the ratings now. People have lost all trust and faith in legacy corporate media- and instead of these morons trying to figure out why that is- they are grasping at straws and demanding the internet be censored so they can regain control of their stewardship of information. Maybe if they didn't absolutely suck ass at their jobs and didn't litter their newsroom with criminals and spooks and basically become infiltrated by CIA/FBI/NSA and just mouthpieces for the intelligence community and state department people might actually take them seriously a little bit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 26, 2022, 02:39:55 PM

Blows my mind.  I have never been on FB, Instagram or Twitter- and I use a different hosting site than Google.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 03:14:04 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 26, 2022, 02:39:55 PM

Blows my mind.  I have never been on FB, Instagram or Twitter- and I use a different hosting site than Google. 

Never done the FB or Twitter but I do use Google a lot unfortunately. It’s just too hard not too.

The power that Google and FB have is literally insane and people want to sit here and talk about Twitter. Lol.

Google is the most powerful company in the world. They basically control the entire f**king internet and advertising. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 26, 2022, 03:37:41 PM

I only do facebook to spy on my related family

I lurk in the shadows

never done twitter but I might give it a try in a few months just out od curiosity 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 04:55:55 PM

https://twitter.com/NoahCarl90/status/1518908504697937923?s=20&t=9etrxJ8eXb9L5MF1cwkEaA


:043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 04:57:49 PM

https://twitter.com/kittypurrzog/status/1518794657693839360?s=20&t=9etrxJ8eXb9L5MF1cwkEaA


:043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 05:18:54 PM

I find it comical people talk about social media and disinformation, when BY FAR the greatest purveyors of disinformation and lies is the US gov't and it's mouth pieces in the establishment legacy/corporate media.

We need not look further than the entire Hunter Biden laptop- in which the mainstream media was touting the laptop as being part of a "Russian disinformation campaign". Proof? Oh, we have a letter signed by a bunch of former CIA spooks saying so. EL OH EL.

The Polling Company (yes, it's a real company which conducts scientific polls) - did a poll with a +/- 2.34 percent margin of error at a 95 percent confidence interval- and asked Biden voters living in seven swing states if they would have still voted for Biden if they knew the laptop story was- you know- real- and 16% said they wouldn't have voted for him had they known.

If what the corporate media did is not flat out disinformation and interferring with an election, well then, I don't know wtf is anymore.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 05:20:20 PM

New Harvard-Harris poll:

Nearly 60% of Americans think Joe Biden was part of Hunter's business deals on behalf of Ukrainian, Russia, and Chinese interests.

60% say Hunter was selling influence and access to Joe. 



YOU DON'T SAY. LOL.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 05:37:29 PM

seems ludicrous to me that people don't realize these facts. The largest, most powerful tech companies in the world which largely control the internet- Google and Facebook- are owned and controlled by who? Sergey Brin, Larry Page, and Mark Zuckerberg. Billionaires. Comcast (NBC) is owned/controlled by who? Brian Roberts. A billionaire. WB Discovery (CNN) is owned/controlled by who? John Malone. A billionaire. Fox News is owned/controlled by who? Rupert Murdoch. A billionaire. Viacaom/Paramount (CBS) was owned/controlled by who forever? Sumner Redstone. Another f***king billionaire. He just died a year or so ago- so his kids probably own/control that sh*t now. One of the two papers of record- Washington Post- is owned/controlled by who? JEFF BEZOS. A F**KING BILLIONAIRE.


https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1518707991004028930?s=20&t=9etrxJ8eXb9L5MF1cwkEaA

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1518693472328458240?s=20&t=9etrxJ8eXb9L5MF1cwkEaA


Washington Post actually publishing that kills me.....:043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 06:49:33 PM

Spotify dumps Obama. Spotify signed an exclusive podcast deal with Obama in 2019 worth $25 million. Turns out it was a big dud for Spotify- as viewership was laughable and it was basically just a cash grab by the former President. Spotify declined to negotiate a renewal of the contract.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 26, 2022, 07:36:25 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 01:42:06 PM

I mean I guess. Didn't take you for a vote blue no matter who, BlueAnon shitlib.

Yes, that's the kind of thing one would say if they were a rabid partisan. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 07:42:54 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 26, 2022, 07:36:25 PM

Yes, that's the kind of thing one would say if they were a rabid partisan.

nah. that's just calling balls and strikes. if you think I'm a Republican, well you're wrong.

Turns out that at this moment in history- the Democrats are just FAR more dangerous to this country. It was the other way around- Republicans were the far more dangerous party to this country not long ago when Bush II was in power. Pendulum has swung wildly in the opposite direction. It's actually been f***king astonishing to see. Many former Bush II operatives have found homes in this new Democratic party. The Democrats must be smashed, taken out, defeated, destroyed- and that party needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. They need their version of Trump to come in and just blow it all apart to f**king hell.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 09:24:07 PM

Get 'em. Firings commencing soon! 

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1519073003933515776?s=20&t=IHgjz7rdWLPsHAv6FiII3A

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 26, 2022, 10:16:31 PM

This is fun to watch

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 26, 2022, 11:03:53 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 26, 2022, 03:37:41 PM

I only do facebook to spy on my related family

I lurk in the shadows

never done twitter but I might give it a try in a few months just out od curiosity

Twitter will not be gentle with you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 26, 2022, 11:06:03 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 26, 2022, 11:03:53 PM

Twitter will not be gentle with you.

gentle is over rated

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 26, 2022, 11:25:45 PM

You think I"m bad, and now you're talking tough about Twitter:  the single largest cesspool of trolling the planet has ever known?  


MMMMMMMkay.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 26, 2022, 11:35:05 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 26, 2022, 11:25:45 PM

You think I"m bad, and now you're talking tough about Twitter:  the single largest cesspool of trolling the planet has ever known? 


MMMMMMMkay.

why are you so afraid of free speech

do you really want a world where you can shut out a political party from speaking

Yes people will sometimes speak trash but at least the others will have a chance to decide for themselves if its trash or not

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 11:54:31 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 26, 2022, 11:25:45 PM

You think I"m bad, and now you're talking tough about Twitter:  the single largest cesspool of trolling the planet has ever known? 


MMMMMMMkay.

LMAO. Facts. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 11:55:17 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 26, 2022, 11:35:05 PM

why are you so afraid of free speech

do you really want a world where you can shut out a political party from speaking

Yes people will sometimes speak trash but at least the others will have a chance to decide for themselves if its trash or not

I don't think he is afraid of free speech. 

I think what he's saying is if you have a problem with anything he posts/says on here....watch out....because he's like a puppy dog compared to the animals you'll see on Twitter. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2022, 12:13:22 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 26, 2022, 11:55:17 PM

I don't think he is afraid of free speech.

I think what he's saying is if you have a problem with anything he posts/says on here....watch out....because he's like a puppy dog compared to the animals you'll see on Twitter.

Not sure bout that

OAM sets a pretty high bar

just kidding

My approach to twitter will simply be as an observer

I fully expect the mud to fly but as long as both sides can throw it all is well

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 27, 2022, 01:18:12 AM

It's less 'mud' and more 'biggest log a blue whale can possibly pinch out.'

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 27, 2022, 01:18:51 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 26, 2022, 11:35:05 PM

why are you so afraid of free speech

do you really want a world where you can shut out a political party from speaking

Yes people will sometimes speak trash but at least the others will have a chance to decide for themselves if its trash or not

I'll never understand how you get this from my post.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 07:46:37 AM

TWTR is going to "manage" content, they have to, maybe less than before, but at some point a platform just becomes so rife with obvious garbage and disinformation it no longer is appealing to anyone sane.  I think over time we'll see less change than some hope and expect, or it devolves into an absolute mess of BS.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2022, 07:47:42 AM

I'm enjoying the meltdown.

Thanks to MDOT for pointing out all of those major websites being owned by billionaires. 

But you forgot this website in your post about the major outlets.

Me, Drew and ELA all have a shared motto.

"Why make BILLIONS when we can make MILLIONS??"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 08:01:31 AM

I don't find it at all surprising that major corporations owned mostly by one person are owned by billionaires.  

The largest shareholder for most of them is Blackrock and Vanguard and JPM et al.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2022, 09:01:57 AM

Outdoor cooking space is complete.

(https://i.imgur.com/RbJ3i4H.jpg)

Had the cage redone, and now the pool tiles are being done. Last will be the pool deck/lanai floor. Then I think I'm done, until I have to get a roof.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 27, 2022, 09:20:14 AM

NICE @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) !!!!!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 09:45:41 AM

It looks more indoor than out.

I was thinking of an outdoor cooking spot when we lived in Cincy (besides the grills).  I sort of had one cobbled together and was thinking of something more substantive.  I do miss that house at times, it had a great backyard.  We finished under the deck with a ceiling with fan, it was awesome.  Part was screened in.  The under deck ceiling was a tremendous option for us, and didn't cost that much, complete with gutters etc.

I don't miss the yard work and the winters.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2022, 10:18:26 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 09:45:41 AM

It looks more indoor than out.

I was thinking of an outdoor cooking spot when we lived in Cincy (besides the grills).  I sort of had one cobbled together and was thinking of something more substantive.  I do miss that house at times, it had a great backyard.  We finished under the deck with a ceiling with fan, it was awesome.  Part was screened in.  The under deck ceiling was a tremendous option for us, and didn't cost that much, complete with gutters etc.

I don't miss the yard work and the winters.

It's kinda indoor/outdoor. Covered, but enclosed by the lanai cage. It stays dry.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 27, 2022, 10:20:28 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2022, 09:01:57 AM

Outdoor cooking space is complete.

(https://i.imgur.com/RbJ3i4H.jpg)

Had the cage redone, and now the pool tiles are being done. Last will be the pool deck/lanai floor. Then I think I'm done, until I have to get a roof.

Very nice!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2022, 10:21:10 AM

LMAO

Musk's Twitter Purchase Fails After 138,000 Board Votes Found Overnight | The Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/musks-twitter-purchase-fails-after-138000-board-votes-found-overnight)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2022, 10:22:37 AM

Florida is the least affordable place to live in the U.S. (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/florida-is-the-least-affordable-place-to-live-in-the-u-s/ar-AAWDRDk?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=c1529d22ba434cc8895d07619c73b2ea)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 27, 2022, 10:25:03 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2022, 10:21:10 AM

LMAO

Musk's Twitter Purchase Fails After 138,000 Board Votes Found Overnight | The Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/musks-twitter-purchase-fails-after-138000-board-votes-found-overnight)

😂😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 27, 2022, 10:27:03 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2022, 10:22:37 AM

Florida is the least affordable place to live in the U.S. (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/florida-is-the-least-affordable-place-to-live-in-the-u-s/ar-AAWDRDk?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=c1529d22ba434cc8895d07619c73b2ea)

You hate to see it…… 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 11:36:16 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2022, 10:22:37 AM

Florida is the least affordable place to live in the U.S. (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/florida-is-the-least-affordable-place-to-live-in-the-u-s/ar-AAWDRDk?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=c1529d22ba434cc8895d07619c73b2ea)

home prices and rental prices have gone through the gd roof post corona. Thanks in large part to everyone moving here. DeSantis is too good at his job and the authoritarian lockdown left governors were too bad at their jobs. People with the means to move from those disaster blue states simply had enough and said f**k it, I'm out. Don't know the exact number of people from California, Michigan, Illinois, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, and Pennsylvania who have relocated to FL permanently- but it's a f**k ton. Florida was already getting tons of new residents every year- this whole corona lockdown left crap just kicked it into overdrive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 27, 2022, 11:37:01 AM

I'm not moving there unless I have live in Badger's outdoor kitchen

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2022, 11:39:23 AM

300K new residents in 2020 and 2021. And there are thousands a day moving here currently.

There are at least 3000 new SF lots going in within 4 miles of me, in Punta Gorda. Also a ton of multi-family going in to the South in Cape Coral, not to mention tons of new homes being built there. It's nuts!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 11:45:14 AM

Yeah, same around North Port.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 11:45:54 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 07:46:37 AM

TWTR is going to "manage" content, they have to, maybe less than before, but at some point a platform just becomes so rife with obvious garbage and disinformation it no longer is appealing to anyone sane.  I think over time we'll see less change than some hope and expect, or it devolves into an absolute mess of BS.

of course there will be content moderation. you can't have a place be a cesspool. no one will want to use it. breaking the law (inciting violence, crime) and bullying and harassment will always be dealt with.

what you won't have however is Twitter censoring the oldest newspaper in America for reporting a TRUE story. You won't have them banning a f**king sitting President of the United States of America either. You won't have people getting banned for talking about the possibility of the coronavirus leaking out of a lab- which is what Twitter was doing at the height of the pandemic. You won't have parody accounts getting banned for posting memes (Babylon Bee). All of these things were HIGHLY inappropriate and just flat out wrong.

Probably also won't have the stupid "fact checkers" anymore either- who are mostly compromised and have conflicts of interest and get sh*t wrong just as much as they get it right.

Twitter algorithm will be open source- nothing hidden- nothing in the dark- (like it is now)- we'll get to see exactly how it works.

Musk needs to fire all of the partisan hacks in the "content moderation" division- really just fire the entire division, get rid of all the "fact checkers" and warning labels on Tweets, reinstate people like Trump and Alex Jones, open up the algorithm and bring it to the sunlight and you'll see Twitter probably grow. Twitter has lost immense amounts of credibility because of all of the insane policies they had been implemented by unhinged left wing authoritarian nutjobs who took control of the company and chopped Dorsey's balls off. Musk is going to take a chainsaw to the company and fire all of those pink haired I need a safe space and a warm blanket mommy losers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 11:46:17 AM

Atlanta named No. 7 ‘hotspot’ in U.S. for luring new renters | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/new-renters-moving-growth-population-chicago-new-york)

(https://i.imgur.com/icFwHlY.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 12:03:43 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 08:01:31 AM

I don't find it at all surprising that major corporations owned mostly by one person are owned by billionaires. 

The largest shareholder for most of them is Blackrock and Vanguard and JPM et al.

yeah, it's not surprising.

what is surprising is mainstream media reaction to this. now all of a sudden they want to sound the alarms and act like it's unprecedented for a billionaire to own/control a major media/internet company. Never had a problem with it before. Now that a billionaire says he's going to open up the platform that he OWNS- now they are big mad. It's beyond pathetic.

They went from trying to tell people that if you don't like the new twitter where people get banned for nothing and there is censorship up the ass- then go make your own version of a twitter....it's a free market. Private companies can do what they want. Well.....if you don't like the new new twitter....go start your own. It's a free market. Elon Musk can spend his money how he wants- and private companies can do what they want.... :043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 12:07:04 PM

first it was fitness/working out....now it's gaming.... RIGHT WING! Lmao. These animals in the media need to be destroyed, stopped. I say we have a final solution for media members. Kill 'em all and start over. JK of course. But yeah....media today is beyond pathetic.

https://twitter.com/axios/status/1519282579085611009?s=20&t=CC51OAvZYkNmVAWMIIQbdw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 12:11:28 PM

I don't know that main stream media collectively has had some kind of overly harsh reaction to the Musk/TWTR thing that I've seen.  Some personalities here and there have.

I THINK the reactions on both sides are misoverestimations.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 12:13:36 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 12:11:28 PM

I don't know that main stream media collectively has had some kind of overly harsh reaction to the Musk/TWTR thing that I've seen.  Some personalities here and there have.

I THINK the reactions on both sides are misoverestimations.

yeah....you really don't pay attention. pick up the Washington post/NY Times or turn on CNN and MSNBC. They are all freaking the f**k out. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 12:21:07 PM

I see a few personalities freaking out, not major networks.  It's a new item for sure, but I don't see that many going ballistic over this.  I imagine the papers have some editorial comment for and against.  

What did Alex Jones ever contribute to useful accurate news information?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 12:29:59 PM

Elon Musk has become the most powerful person in the world - CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/26/business/elon-musk-richest-person-twitter-tesla-spacex/index.html)

Seems to me like a pretty balanced overview without the histrionics.

Twitter has come a long way (https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/26/tech/twitter-free-speech-elon-musk/index.html) from its early free-for-all days. The platform has made big improvements moderating content and suspending accounts that harass other users or peddle misinformation.
But Musk has made clear he believes Twitter has overcorrected.
"I think we want to be very reluctant to delete things and just be very cautious with permanent bans," Musk said earlier this month at a TED conference. He added that "timeouts" are better than full-blown bans.
In taking the company private, Musk will face little resistance to lowering content moderation guardrails that his predecessors put up. Those who've previously run afoul of Twitter's policies could be reinstated. Content that might have once triggered a warning about, say, Covid vaccine misinformation, may once again be fair game.
"If in doubt, let the speech exist," Musk said at the TED conference. "If it's a gray area, I would say, let the tweet exist. But obviously in the case where there's perhaps a lot of controversy, you would not necessarily want to promote that tweet."
Twitter is a fraction of the size of Facebook (FB (https://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=FB&source=story_quote_link)) or TikTok, but its value lies in its concentration of elite political and media figures who've made it their primary megaphone. Twitter is where news and feuds break out in real time, steering the national conversation on any given day. No other platform has been able to replicate Twitter's messaging utility, and not for lack of trying.
It was Donald Trump's primary communication tool for the years leading up to and throughout his presidency, before Twitter banned him over his role in the January 6 insurrection. Since being banned, Trump has struggled (https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/25/investing/twitter-trump-spac-elon-musk/index.html) to get his copycat platform, Truth Social, off the ground.
Trump said he would not rejoin Twitter if allowed to. But many believe he ultimately will, given his enormous success at getting his message out on the platform.
Musk will soon be in charge of that decision — a choice that could ultimately influence who becomes the next president of the United States.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2022, 12:34:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 12:21:07 PM

I see a few personalities freaking out, not major networks.  It's a new item for sure, but I don't see that many going ballistic over this.  I imagine the papers have some editorial comment for and against. 

What did Alex Jones ever contribute to useful accurate news information?

But this does not matter

Just because you may think he contributes nothing to accurate news he should get his chance to speak

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 12:36:13 PM

I actually disagree on this one.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2022, 12:37:49 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 12:36:13 PM

I actually disagree on this one. 

well theres free speech and theres CD speech I guess

when you buy twitter you can do what you want

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 12:40:40 PM

Free speech has limits, in my view, and in the law.  I would not allow Jones on any platform I controlled, at all, nor anyone else so vile and dangerous.

This is why I think Musk controlled TWTR is going to end up looking slightly different, not massively different.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2022, 12:43:40 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 12:40:40 PM

Free speech has limits, in my view, and in the law.  I would not allow Jones on any platform I controlled, at all, nor anyone else so vile and dangerous.

This is why I think Musk controlled TWTR is going to end up looking slightly different, not massively different.

CD Ive decided your posts are inflammatory and misleading

Your are hereby banned 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 12:46:47 PM

If you have that power, you can do that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 12:58:40 PM

With Elon Musk’s bid for Twitter, there’s more at stake than freedom of speech - MarketWatch (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-is-essentially-a-giant-referendum-about-what-the-future-of-americas-democratic-society-looks-like-with-musks-twitter-bid-theres-more-at-stake-than-freedom-of-speech-11651065704?mod=mw_quote_news)

Another fairly balanced overview from CBS MW.  I think TWTR will be more open, especially early, and then tamp down to some extent as they realize the garbage that starts to get spewed to test the boundaries of propriety that could end up turning off users.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 01:01:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 12:21:07 PM

I see a few personalities freaking out, not major networks.  It's a new item for sure, but I don't see that many going ballistic over this.  I imagine the papers have some editorial comment for and against. 

What did Alex Jones ever contribute to useful accurate news information?

It’s not one personality, it’s most of them at those networks. But then again, that’s precisely WHY they are on those networks. 

As far as Alex Jones goes- dude is a crack pot- probably hasn’t contributed anything in terms of accurate news information but Twitter isn’t a news site. It’s an open social media platform for people to communicate with each other. Dude has a right to say whatever comes into his crazy ass brain. Voltaire says what up. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 01:05:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 12:29:59 PM

Elon Musk has become the most powerful person in the world - CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/26/business/elon-musk-richest-person-twitter-tesla-spacex/index.html)

Seems to me like a pretty balanced overview without the histrionics.

Twitter has come a long way (https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/26/tech/twitter-free-speech-elon-musk/index.html) from its early free-for-all days. The platform has made big improvements moderating content and suspending accounts that harass other users or peddle misinformation.
But Musk has made clear he believes Twitter has overcorrected.
"I think we want to be very reluctant to delete things and just be very cautious with permanent bans," Musk said earlier this month at a TED conference. He added that "timeouts" are better than full-blown bans.
In taking the company private, Musk will face little resistance to lowering content moderation guardrails that his predecessors put up. Those who've previously run afoul of Twitter's policies could be reinstated. Content that might have once triggered a warning about, say, Covid vaccine misinformation, may once again be fair game.
"If in doubt, let the speech exist," Musk said at the TED conference. "If it's a gray area, I would say, let the tweet exist. But obviously in the case where there's perhaps a lot of controversy, you would not necessarily want to promote that tweet."
Twitter is a fraction of the size of Facebook (FB (https://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=FB&source=story_quote_link)) or TikTok, but its value lies in its concentration of elite political and media figures who've made it their primary megaphone. Twitter is where news and feuds break out in real time, steering the national conversation on any given day. No other platform has been able to replicate Twitter's messaging utility, and not for lack of trying.
It was Donald Trump's primary communication tool for the years leading up to and throughout his presidency, before Twitter banned him over his role in the January 6 insurrection. Since being banned, Trump has struggled (https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/25/investing/twitter-trump-spac-elon-musk/index.html) to get his copycat platform, Truth Social, off the ground.
Trump said he would not rejoin Twitter if allowed to. But many believe he ultimately will, given his enormous success at getting his message out on the platform.
Musk will soon be in charge of that decision — a choice that could ultimately influence who becomes the next president of the United States.

Hyperbole trash. 

Elon Musk is not even close to being the most powerful person on planet earth. Awful hyperbolic horseshit, but expect nothing less from a garbage tabloid rag like cnn. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2022, 01:14:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 12:58:40 PM

With Elon Musk’s bid for Twitter, there’s more at stake than freedom of speech - MarketWatch (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-is-essentially-a-giant-referendum-about-what-the-future-of-americas-democratic-society-looks-like-with-musks-twitter-bid-theres-more-at-stake-than-freedom-of-speech-11651065704?mod=mw_quote_news)

Another fairly balanced overview from CBS MW.  I think TWTR will be more open, especially early, and then tamp down to some extent as they realize the garbage that starts to get spewed to test the boundaries of propriety that could end up turning off users.

What twitter did was much more then just tamping down on garbage

It was way too political in what they allowed and didnt allow

often banning posters who spoke the truth just because it didnt fit their political view

hopefully those days are over at twitter

I think the American public will embrace a social media which truly allows free speech

especially leading up to the mid terms

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2022, 01:17:36 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 12:46:47 PM

If you have that power, you can do that.

thats the whole point

Musk will have the power but will honor free speech unlike other social media

CD if you will delete your previous posts we will restore your post ability

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2022, 01:22:48 PM

Stop the infighting already, or go to your rooms.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2022, 01:28:49 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2022, 01:22:48 PM

Stop the infighting already, or go to your rooms.

sorry CD 

want to play catch?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 01:33:33 PM

It's not fighting, it's a cordial exchange of points of view.  I may not be right obviously and I appreciate hearing how others would manage such things as Alex Jones and obvious disinformation that is very harmful to society.

Twitter is going to find a need for limits on speech not too far from where they have been in the long run, and I bet a lot of folks carp about it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2022, 01:40:59 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 27, 2022, 01:28:49 PM

sorry CD

want to play catch?

You really want to catch a 95 MPH heater?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2022, 01:45:09 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2022, 01:40:59 PM

You really want to catch a 95 MPH heater?

bring it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 01:45:15 PM

Obviously I can't throw 95, or close to it, ha.

Fantasy Camp | Atlanta Braves (mlb.com) (https://www.mlb.com/braves/fans/experiences-and-merchandise/fantasy-camp)

My photo is still up on the web site.  I'm signed up again of course.  I wish I had someone to throw with though.  Folks here play "softball".  Meh.

Atlanta Braves Fantasy Camp 2022 - Bing video (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=braves+fantasy+camp+2022&docid=608012381242338809&mid=A8E9AB4C416373083D00A8E9AB4C416373083D00&view=detail&FORM=VIRE)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2022, 01:47:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 01:33:33 PM

It's not fighting, it's a cordial exchange of points of view.  I may not be right obviously and I appreciate hearing how others would manage such things as Alex Jones and obvious disinformation that is very harmful to society.

Twitter is going to find a need for limits on speech not too far from where they have been in the long run, and I bet a lot of folks carp about it.

If there are limits set and I dont see any way they will be anything like the current limits at least they will be enforced across the board no matter the political bent of the poster

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2022, 01:48:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 01:45:15 PM

Obviously I can't throw 95, or close to it, ha.

Fantasy Camp | Atlanta Braves (mlb.com) (https://www.mlb.com/braves/fans/experiences-and-merchandise/fantasy-camp)

My photo is still up on the web site.  I'm signed up again of course.  I wish I had someone to throw with though.  Folks here play "softball".  Meh.

Atlanta Braves Fantasy Camp 2022 - Bing video (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=braves+fantasy+camp+2022&docid=608012381242338809&mid=A8E9AB4C416373083D00A8E9AB4C416373083D00&view=detail&FORM=VIRE)

What are you throwing at now, and what was your prime?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 01:51:01 PM

They didn't have guns back in the day, I was told I could throw in the 80s, but that could be hyperbole, in 1992 when I went to camp.  I was throwing pretty well that week.

Now?  Bad.  Maybe 60.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 03:18:28 PM

Democrats risk turning off base by embracing Title 42, immigration advocates say : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2022/04/27/1094798190/immigration-advocates-warn-of-midterm-risks-for-democrats-if-title-42-isnt-lifte)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 27, 2022, 03:30:29 PM

Whenever someone talks about the rules...

https://youtu.be/v010HXpfFSA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2022, 03:45:23 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 03:18:28 PM

Democrats risk turning off base by embracing Title 42, immigration advocates say : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2022/04/27/1094798190/immigration-advocates-warn-of-midterm-risks-for-democrats-if-title-42-isnt-lifte)

I think its a matter of many democrats realizing their "base" is going to be defeated next Nov

They are hoping to survive by moving to the right

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 06:25:38 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 27, 2022, 03:45:23 PM

I think its a matter of many democrats realizing their "base" is going to be defeated next Nov

They are hoping to survive by moving to the right

The Democratic party is pretty much on the right, and it has long been that way. The two parties disagree on little in reality- but what is really wild to me is how the Republican party was completely subservient and in lock step with the "intelligence community" deep state/military industrial complex- whatever you want to call it- and had an authoritarian streak and used to be the party to want to restrict rights and freedoms- now that's all flipped and it's the Democratic party who is in complete lock step and subservient to the "intelligence community"/deep state/MIC- and wants to restrict rights and freedoms and has a nasty authoritarian streak.

The problem is that their "base" isn't the men wearing nail polish, she/her/him/he/it, pink haired, LBGTQIATARD+++ rainbow flag wrapped defund the police absolute freak show lunatic fringe the party seems to have embraced- mostly just for optics- to show they are "progressive, inclusive, good people". They're not. Their base had always long been the working class, regular every day joes- whom they seem to have long forgotten about and cast aside. People are just sick and tired of the identity politics with zero substance behind it. Biden promised a hell of a lot during that election. All politicians do when they're running. His problem is he's delivered on exactly zero of it- less than zero actually- as things have gotten worse under his stewardship than they were under The Orange One.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 06:38:17 PM

A Leftist would view the Democrats as being largely on the Right, and vice versa.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 06:41:48 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 12:40:40 PM

Free speech has limits, in my view, and in the law.  I would not allow Jones on any platform I controlled, at all, nor anyone else so vile and dangerous.

This is why I think Musk controlled TWTR is going to end up looking slightly different, not massively different.

Yeah, we've been over this a bunch. No need to rehash it. Restriction of free speech has extremely narrow limits in terms of the law in the United States. It is nearly absolute. Obviously things which break the law; direct threats of violence, death threats, incitement of violence, fraud, defamation, libel, slander, child you know- that's all against the law. Everything else is pretty much fair game.

I barely know of Alex Jones- and I've only seen him a few times laughing my ass off watching him talk like a crazy person about the government engineering tornadoes and hurricanes, the government turning frogs gay, and Sandy Hook being a false flag.  None of that is illegal. He's allowed to be batshit crazy asshole. And dude is clearly batshit crazy. Only a complete moron would take any of that stuff he says seriously. And the thing about morons- you can't legislate them out of being a moron. A moron is gonna moron and believe batshit crazy things. There's no cure for stupid.

We have no idea yet what Twitter is going to look like. Musk has yet to close the deal. My hunch is that it's going to look quite different and that Musk is serious about free speech. Musk isn't buying Twitter for the money. He's never going to make money on it. It's a dogshit loser of a company. Maybe he just agrees with dude below heavily...


(https://cdn.quotesgram.com/img/89/7/1411948873-hq5485b307.jpg)'

(https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-the-right-to-free-speech-is-more-important-than-the-content-of-the-speech-voltaire-131-64-78.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2022, 06:53:41 PM

so we should restrict Alex Jones but not Joy Reed.  Have you heard this woman.

But no I would allow her to run her mouth loud and clear cause everytime she opens it another Republican gets reelected.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2022, 06:57:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 06:38:17 PM

A Leftist would view the Democrats as being largely on the Right, and vice versa.

CD thats a silly statement

Blue is left Red is right

The dems control all three parts of congress and tell me the last time they did something on the right

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 06:58:56 PM

I am on FB with some who are pretty far Left, and they view most Democrats as being conservatives, or right leaning moderates at best.  One told me MSNBC was slightly left of center.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2022, 07:00:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 06:58:56 PM

I am on FB with some who are pretty far Left, and they view most Democrats as being conservatives, or right leaning moderates at best.  One told me MSNBC was slightly left of center.

well there ya go we need to buy FB and make some changes

so you wont get all that misinformation

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 07:00:42 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 27, 2022, 06:53:41 PM

so we should restrict Alex Jones but not Joy Reed.  Have you heard this woman.

But no I would allow her to run her mouth loud and clear cause everytime she opens it another Republican gets reelected.

Omg she is the worst. She's verifiably insane. And what's crazy to me is her blog from 5-10 years before get that job on MSNBC was filled with all kinds of homophobic, bigoted, nasty sh*t- saying stuff that gay men were basically pedos. 

She claimed she was hacked all those years ago- then admitted she wasn't and apologized- and still kept her job lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 07:03:02 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 06:58:56 PM

I am on FB with some who are pretty far Left, and they view most Democrats as being conservatives, or right leaning moderates at best.  One told me MSNBC was slightly left of center.

look at their track records. they are pretty much center, center right- basically moderate republicans. Obama even admits he'd basically be considered republican in the era of Reagan. Hell his healthcare plan was ripped off from....a republican. Lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 07:04:09 PM

There is a difference, in my mind, between a person clearly voicing opinion on a topic, and a person claiming some "truth" about a topic that is vile and false.

I don't know anything about this Joy person.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 07:08:33 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 27, 2022, 07:00:27 PM

well there ya go we need to buy FB and make some changes

so you wont get all that misinformation

FB too big now for anyone to buy. It's market cap is over half a trillion dollars. Add the premium anyone would have to pay just for F**kstick Zuck and the board to agree to sell- and you're talking probably $600-$650 billion. There is no private person wealthy enough to pull that off- and probably the only US companies that could swing an acquisition like that are probably Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, or Google- and the regulators would never approve it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 07:12:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 07:04:09 PM

There is a difference, in my mind, between a person clearly voicing opinion on a topic, and a person claiming some "truth" about a topic that is vile and false.

I don't know anything about this Joy person.

Joy Reid claims "truth" about topics that is vile and false non-stop. The entire mainstream corporate news does.

That Hunter Biden laptop story is one small example. And there are far more dangerous and destructive "truths" mainstream corporate press pushes. Guess you're not old enough to remember their Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya "truths". I'm sure they'll find those WMD's in Iraq any day now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2022, 07:13:07 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 07:04:09 PM

There is a difference, in my mind, between a person clearly voicing opinion on a topic, and a person claiming some "truth" about a topic that is vile and false.

I don't know anything about this Joy person.

see CD I dont think you are giving people enough credit

the average person can tell when someone like AJ is clearly crazy

let him speak and as Mark Twain said remove all doubt

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 07:14:30 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 27, 2022, 07:13:07 PM

see CD I dont think you are giving people enough credit

the average person can tell when someone like AJ is clearly crazy

let him speak and as Mark Twain said remove all doubt

yeah, no shit. 

Cable news and the people on it like Joy Reid are infinitely more harmful, dangerous, and destructive than someone like Alex Jones. People like her are platformed by mainstream legacy corporate media. Their reach and influence is infinitely greater than someone like Alex Jones.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2022, 07:20:20 PM

Its pretty clear to me the left wants to use social media as an indoctrination tool

weeding out anyone not spewing support for their cause and the right wants social media as a meeting place to share different views

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 07:23:08 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 27, 2022, 07:20:20 PM

Its pretty clear to me the left wants to use social media as jndoctrination tool

weeding out anyone not spewing support for their cause and the right wants social media as a meeting place to share different views

it's not so much an indoctrination tool as much as they want to control the flow of information. like the great song Waiting for the World to Change by John Mayer goes...

"And when you trust your television,
What you get is what you got,
'Cause when they own the information, oh
They can bend it all they want"

They don't own the information and can't bend it how they want anymore. And they are freaking the f**k out about it. You hate to see it. Actually, no you don't. You love to see it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 07:28:40 PM

Texas Governor is publicly courting Elon Musk to move Twitter HQ to Texas. I'd say good chance that happens. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 07:37:41 PM

astonishingly accurate....:043:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T0BQl_zzCE

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 07:41:27 PM

How do we know that is remotely accurate?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 07:42:21 PM

I think we'll see the constraints come off, for a while, and folks will realize they need constraints, perhaps less than before, but not materially different.

Folks won't notice much difference.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 07:53:36 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 07:41:27 PM

How do we know that is remotely accurate?

yeah...ummm..it was a joke.

And again...you really don't pay attention do you? Articles up the ass have been published about Twitter employees crying, freaking out over Musk taking over the company. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 07:55:27 PM

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQbmeVFVkAQ9Tf5?format=jpg&name=small)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 07:56:37 PM

https://twitter.com/damonimani/status/1519022153043218436?s=20&t=aZ3GC9zMosgMLBEeS824RQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2022, 07:59:28 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 07:28:40 PM

Texas Governor is publicly courting Elon Musk to move Twitter HQ to Texas. I'd say good chance that happens.

Just dont put it in Austin

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 08:05:18 PM

https://twitter.com/walterkirn/status/1518789477669294080?s=20&t=KAvp_gtnPf7iEHx9rcyIrA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2022, 08:05:30 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 07:42:21 PM

I think we'll see the constraints come off, for a while, and folks will realize they need constraints, perhaps less than before, but not materially different.

Folks won't notice much difference. 

Its not so much a matter of constraints existing but how they are used

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 08:07:43 PM

:043:

https://twitter.com/caitoz/status/1519316188714909696?s=20&t=KAvp_gtnPf7iEHx9rcyIrA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 08:09:21 PM

not to many bigger pieces of shit morons out there than former Clinton stooge Robert Reich.

https://twitter.com/DrewHolden360/status/1518689040265932800?s=20&t=KAvp_gtnPf7iEHx9rcyIrA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 08:12:28 PM

yep...he can....lol.

https://twitter.com/Heminator/status/1518895697604526081?s=20&t=aZ3GC9zMosgMLBEeS824RQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 08:16:20 PM

:043:

https://twitter.com/sammorril/status/1519454773526908931?s=20&t=aZ3GC9zMosgMLBEeS824RQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2022, 08:17:45 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 08:12:28 PM

yep...he can....lol.

https://twitter.com/Heminator/status/1518895697604526081?s=20&t=aZ3GC9zMosgMLBEeS824RQ

I saw this and thought someone was making a joke

I cant believe anyone can be that stupid

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2022, 08:32:58 PM

Washington Post is useful when they actually just stick to...you know...facts and reporting and not opinion and innuendo. 

Here's a great article on rent increases throughout the US. Of the top 15 areas with highest % of increase in average monthly rent, Florida has an astonishing 11. 


https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/interactive/2022/rising-rent-prices/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Naples-Marco Island - up 39% 
North Port-Sarasota-Bradenton - up 35% 
Tampa-St Pete-Clearwater - up 29% 
Cape Coral-Fort Myers - up 28% 
Crestview-Ft Walton-Destin - up 27% 
Port St. Lucie - up 27% 
Jacksonville - up 24% 
Orlando-Kissimmee-Sanford - up 24% 

Palm Bay-Melbourne-Titusville - up 24% 
Miami-Ft Lauderdale-Pompano - up 23% 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 28, 2022, 07:37:20 AM

Gulf side is on a roll. It will never be as crowded as the East side, but things are nuts right now as far as construction goes. 

One of my good clients is building homes like crazy over here. Almost makes me want to start a Florida office.

Almost.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2022, 12:39:27 PM

College football Top 25 rankings: 247Sports post-spring poll for 2022 (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/LongFormArticle/College-football-top-25-rankings-247Sports-post-spring-poll-for-2022-186765894/)

Meh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 28, 2022, 01:06:13 PM

think they got the top 3 right. after that, it's all guesses.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 28, 2022, 01:07:03 PM

Well now that Musk has purchased twitter the Biden administration is setting up a Ministry of Truth to police internet disinformation

This is amazing

Waiting to see just what they do and how they do it

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/critics-slam-timing-bidens-ministry-of-truth-police-internet-disinformation

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2022, 01:08:43 PM

This government effort will be the butt of jokes, and do almost nothing in the real world of any value.  We already have "fact checkers", a number of them, government efforts would be worse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 28, 2022, 01:11:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 28, 2022, 01:08:43 PM

This government effort will be the butt of jokes, and do almost nothing in the real world of any value.  We already have "fact checkers", a number of them, government efforts would be worse.

It will be interesting to see if this group is purely informational or if they actually will restrict free speech

and the hits just keep on coming

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 28, 2022, 01:13:04 PM

just like the brain dead morons "mandates"- this will never fly in the courts. Government can't police speech. There's this little thing called....the 1st amendment in the constitution. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2022, 01:16:21 PM

I think they will just make a minor effort to be "fact checkers", until said minor effort is ignored widely and it disappears.  It's sop to worried libs, and not a very good one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 28, 2022, 01:21:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 28, 2022, 01:16:21 PM

I think they will just make a minor effort to be "fact checkers", until said minor effort is ignored widely and it disappears.  It's sop to worried libs, and not a very good one.

yeah, the federal gov't already does this. they claim things are fact- many times without showing a shred of evidence- and that's the official narrative and it's fact because why? Because they say so. 

They have no need for a "fact checker" department- and not sure that's even legal. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2022, 01:21:53 PM

It would be entirely legal for some part of the DoJ to issue some press release claiming this or that is false.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 28, 2022, 01:22:00 PM

pretty much....

https://twitter.com/JerryDunleavy/status/1519644465270513666?s=20&t=7u2EyJH8SzhoLXpTIrJPRg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 28, 2022, 01:32:53 PM

shitlib impression: "ElOn MuSk nO bUy TwTr....bIlLiOnArEs CaNt OwN MeDiA OmGmgMgMG...derp.....derppp!" 

this is nothing to say of Sergey Brin and Larry Page who are both worth over $100 billy each and have special voting share control over Google. Or Mark Zuckerberg who is worth over $80 bills and has voting share control over Facebook. Or Brian Roberts who is worth $2 billion and has voting share control over Comcast (NBC). 

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FRREiuIXsAMjGs5?format=jpg&name=large)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 28, 2022, 01:35:28 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 28, 2022, 01:21:53 PM

It would be entirely legal for some part of the DoJ to issue some press release claiming this or that is false.

and I have no problem with this but the timing of it with the twitter deal has me concerned

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2022, 02:01:59 PM

Why does the timing matter at all?

I don't get the worry by either "side" about any of this. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 28, 2022, 02:04:41 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 28, 2022, 02:01:59 PM

Why does the timing matter at all?

I don't get the worry by either "side" about any of this.

you are a very trusting man CD

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2022, 02:13:12 PM

No, I don't trust anything about any of this, but I think this DoJ effort will be short lived, pointless, the butt of jokes, and without merit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 28, 2022, 02:35:12 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 28, 2022, 02:13:12 PM

No, I don't trust anything about any of this, but I think this DoJ effort will be short lived, pointless, the butt of jokes, and without merit.

being the butt of jokes doesnt seem to slow em down much

but I hope youre right

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2022, 03:24:22 PM

I don't see any practicable way this can amount to anything of substance or have any real impact.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 28, 2022, 03:36:40 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 28, 2022, 03:24:22 PM

I don't see any practicable way this can amount to anything of substance or have any real impact.

you are assuming this ministry will simply be used as an alert tool with no attempt at enforcement

if that is the case why have it tied to the DHS

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on April 28, 2022, 06:36:37 PM

Let's role play here.   Let's say someone talks about a lockbox for say, some defined benefits and how these are accounted for considering future outlays.  

What's the end game here?   And to what purpose?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 28, 2022, 07:09:22 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on April 28, 2022, 06:36:37 PM

Let's role play here.  Let's say someone talks about a lockbox for say, some defined benefits and how these are accounted for considering future outlays. 

What's the end game here?  And to what purpose?

that went right over my head

please explain 

is this classified in your example

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on April 28, 2022, 08:12:23 PM

Google 'lockbox' and 2000.

What's the DoJ going to do when any sober honest person knew the lockbox idea was total BS .  The DoJ/ministry ran by the incumbent party is going to do what exactly?   

What is the government solving for?   They won't be able to suppress this 'misinformation'..nor would they even call BS on it because of who's peddling it.

This is, no small segment of people, wanting to form a US Stasi. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 28, 2022, 08:18:20 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on April 28, 2022, 08:12:23 PM

Google 'lockbox' and 2000.

What's the DoJ going to do when any sober honest person knew the lockbox idea was total BS .  The DoJ/ministry ran by the incumbent party is going to do what exactly? 

What is the government solving for?  They won't be able to suppress this 'misinformation'..nor would they even call BS on it because of who's peddling it.

This is, no small segment of people, wanting to form a US Stasi.

sure looks like it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 29, 2022, 02:39:00 PM

US threatens military response if Solomon Islands joins Chinese military alliance and allows bases there...pot meet kettle.....:043:

https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1520064395363168262?s=20&t=8xgWAMMo7WFASUKLk47uHA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 29, 2022, 03:23:02 PM

One of the most senior US officials in the Pacific has refused to rule out military action against Solomon Islands (https://www.theguardian.com/world/solomonislands) if it were to allow China to establish a military base there, saying that the security deal between the countries presented “potential regional security implications” for the US and other allies.
Ambassador Daniel Kritenbrink, assistant secretary of state for East Asian and Pacific Affairs, was part of a high-level US delegation to the Pacific country last week.

He said the US team, which also included the National Security Council coordinator for Indo-Pacific affairs, Kurt Campbell, had a 90-minute “constructive and candid” meeting with prime minister Manasseh Sogavare in which the US team detailed concerns about its recently signed security deal with China (https://www.theguardian.com/world/china).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 29, 2022, 04:22:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 29, 2022, 03:23:02 PM

One of the most senior US officials in the Pacific has refused to rule out military action against Solomon Islands (https://www.theguardian.com/world/solomonislands) if it were to allow China to establish a military base there, saying that the security deal between the countries presented “potential regional security implications” for the US and other allies.
Ambassador Daniel Kritenbrink, assistant secretary of state for East Asian and Pacific Affairs, was part of a high-level US delegation to the Pacific country last week.

He said the US team, which also included the National Security Council coordinator for Indo-Pacific affairs, Kurt Campbell, had a 90-minute “constructive and candid” meeting with prime minister Manasseh Sogavare in which the US team detailed concerns about its recently signed security deal with China (https://www.theguardian.com/world/china).

never knew the US shared a border with the Solomon Islands. Oh wait, we don't? You mean, they are a sovereign nation 8,000+ miles away? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 29, 2022, 04:33:57 PM

It is standard "diplospeak" to say you're not ruling anything out.  Most understand it means nothing in the real world.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 29, 2022, 06:21:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 29, 2022, 04:33:57 PM

It is standard "diplospeak" to say you're not ruling anything out.  Most understand it means nothing in the real world.

yeah, ok. sure sounds like a direct threat and dire warning of "don't you dare". Who the f**k is the United States to threaten a sovereign nation 8,000+ miles away from the US and tell it what it can and cannot do?

Australia Prime Minister Scott Morrison has warned the Solomon Islands that any attempt to allow a Chinese military base in the Solomon Islands would be a "red line" for Australia and the United States. Red line = a warning to said nation that there will be serious consequences if you don't do what we say.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2022, 09:37:08 AM

Rush’s ‘Moving Pictures’ Hits New Heights on Billboard Charts Thanks to 40th-Anniversary Reissue

https://www.billboard.com/music/chart-beat/rush-moving-pictures-40th-anniversary-reissue-charts-1235064622/ (https://www.billboard.com/music/chart-beat/rush-moving-pictures-40th-anniversary-reissue-charts-1235064622/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 30, 2022, 09:44:04 AM

Great album. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 01, 2022, 10:22:25 AM

LEE: An unacceptable weekend for Auburn football | Auburn University Sports News | oanow.com (https://oanow.com/sports/college/auburn/lee-an-unacceptable-weekend-for-auburn-football/article_50e5daea-c8d9-11ec-8184-47d2db309a46.html?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook_The_Opelika-Auburn_News&fbclid=IwAR0FkshuBnfOruumNlWoTOdo4xvcdt6ZahgaBd6hIVa6a_Xv68h-m6H_a_Y)

Auburn had one player drafted.  They aren't happy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on May 01, 2022, 11:03:17 AM

Under Malzahn Auburn was notoriously inconsistent, but within that inconsistency the Tigers could every now and then hit another gear resulting in a Top 10 finish with coveted wins over rivals LSU, Alabama, and Georgia.

With recruiting down under Harsin, turnover within the assistant ranks, those three rivals established with proven coaches, and the rest of the conference as competitive as ever, my unwelcome outlook for Auburn is that they plateau to what Malzahn's frustrating Birmingham Bowl (2015) and Music City Bowl (2018) seasons were.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 01, 2022, 11:03:48 AM

They'll somehow pin it on Harsin.  The boosters there are ruining their program, apparently.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 01, 2022, 12:16:08 PM

Alabama and Georgia were not this dominant at the same time on the field and recruiting trail when Auburn was winning under Chizik and then Malzhan. 

When Chizik got to Auburn in '09, Alabama had really just started to take off under Saban. 'Bama are a completely different animal/machine now. And Georgia was a good program- but they were nowhere near what they've been are under Kirby.

And then when Malzhan got to Auburn in 2013, Bama was in full blown well-oiled juggernaut machine mode but Georgia was still not anywhere what they've been under Kirby. 

Fast forward to now and 'Bama is still the juggernaut of CFB and Georgia is right up there with them. These are the two schools Auburn has to recruit against the most. Probably no way for Auburn to be up when both these schools are #1 and #2 of the entire CFB kingdom. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 01, 2022, 12:35:00 PM

Since 2006, Auburn beat UGA in 2010, 2013, and 2017 (and lost to them in the SEC CG).  Auburn 3-12 over that period not counting the CG.  They are a very inconsistent program, obviously, with a few really good years and a lot of meh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 02, 2022, 12:08:29 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 30, 2022, 09:44:04 AM

Great album.

Rush frontman and bassist Geddy Lee appeared on The Strombo Show. In an interview hosted by George, Lee talked about the band’s early days and the sound they used.

Canadian-based rock band Rush was formed in the late 60s by Alex Lifeson. After a few lineup changes, the band released their 1974 self-titled album Rush. The band received positive feedback from the rock community and increased its popularity with the albums Fly by Night (1975), 2112 (1976), A Farewell to Kings (1977), and Hemispheres (1978) released in the 70s.

Rush, who reached fame with the hard rock genre in the 70s, made progressive rock in the 80s and proved to the world how talented they are in every sound. Reaching international fame with the 19 albums they released before disbanded, sold 25M copies in the U.S. and over 40M copies worldwide.

Anyway, in a brand new interview with George Strombo, Geddy Lee talked about the band’s early days and how they formed the “Rush” Brand. Lee admitted that their initial sound was harsh and likened to Led Zeppelin and Humble Pie.

https://youtu.be/-U0mnz__iUg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 02, 2022, 12:11:04 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 01, 2022, 11:03:48 AM

They'll somehow pin it on Harsin.  The boosters there are ruining their program, apparently.

Always have, always will. 

(I don’t think he was a super hire. Though I assumed his recruiting issues had a big booster factor)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2022, 07:20:48 AM

We got Shot 4 yesterday.  I felt a bit tired all day, nothing else.  As we're cruising in May and flying transatlantic, I thought it could be worth it.  That's a 7 month interval after Shot 3.  Europe seems to be coming way down now, mostly, which is good timing for us.  Leaving out of Copenhagen, going two days earlier.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 02, 2022, 07:55:29 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/3u7HvTQ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 02, 2022, 08:28:45 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on May 02, 2022, 07:55:29 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/3u7HvTQ.png)

:043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2022, 08:50:22 AM

I'd like to see the business model for CNN+, it never made sense to me, the parts I thought I understood.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 02, 2022, 09:55:22 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 02, 2022, 08:50:22 AM

I'd like to see the business model for CNN+, it never made sense to me, the parts I thought I understood.

10,000 disappointed fans

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 02, 2022, 10:37:27 AM

5 Reasons to Visit České Budĕjovice, Home of the Real Budweiser

https://www.praguemorning.cz/5-reasons-to-visit-ceske-budejovice-home-of-the-real-budweiser/ (https://www.praguemorning.cz/5-reasons-to-visit-ceske-budejovice-home-of-the-real-budweiser/)

České Budějovice is the provincial capital of southern Bohemia and a natural base for exploring the region. Transport connections to nearby Český Krumlov are good, meaning you could easily take in both places on an overnight excursion from Prague.

The city was founded in the year 1265 by Ottakar II, the “King of Iron and Gold”. It took very little time for the Budĕjovice beer to make a name for itself; the Svitavy brewery was established the same year that the city itself was founded. The German name for Budĕjovice is “Budweis” – and, from this, we get the name “Budweiser”.

České Budĕjovice brewed up such good beer that, for a while, it was the location of the Holy Roman Emperor’s imperial brewery. The Svitavy brewery had a good, long run, closing only in 2002.

Other breweries include Pivovar Budějovický Budvar, or Budweiser Budvar Brewery; this one has the rights to use the brand name “Budweiser” throughout most of Europe. It has also successfully resisted all efforts from American brewer Anheuser-Busch to gain the exclusive right to the name. The brewery has a visitors’ center, where you can try the real, authentic Budweiser.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 02, 2022, 10:43:54 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 02, 2022, 08:50:22 AM

I'd like to see the business model for CNN+, it never made sense to me, the parts I thought I understood.

McKinsey & Co. consulting firm told CNN they'd have 2 million subscribers in the first few months. CNN execs actually thought they had 29 million "super-fans" of which they'd convert into millions of subscriptions. True story.

The idiots who launched it when it was part of ATT all got fired by the time ATT sold Warners Media to Discovery. Once Discovery got in there- they saw it was losing massive amounts of money and only had around 100,000 subscribers so they rightfully axed it.

No one watches CNN. Their average viewership age is like 68 years old. They don't even crack a million viewers on their highest rated shows/timeslots. The only reason they make any money at all is because of the legacy cable model in which they get crazy high carrier fees. Take those carrier fees away and that company would fold in 5 seconds flat.

https://www.axios.com/cnn-plus-pitch-deck-subscribers-9314bfc5-94ad-4654-bb17-c3b8ea2c725e.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 02, 2022, 11:45:31 AM

NEW YORK (AP) - Exxon Mobil reported $5.48 billion in profits during the first quarter as oil and gas prices rose steadily, more than doubling its profits compared with the same quarter last year.

But the oil giant took a huge hit as it abandoned its Russian operations due to the war, writing down $3.4 billion.

Including that loss, the oil giant reported profits of $1.28 per share Friday, which was well below expectations of analysts polled by Factset, who were looking for $2.23 per share.

Revenue at the Irving, Texas company was $90.5 billion, which far exceeded the $59.15 billion in revenue during the same quarter a year ago.


https://local12.com/news/nation-world/exxon-mobil-doubled-its-profit-from-last-year-to-nearly-55-billion-oil-and-gas-prices-rose-steadily-russian-operations-gasoline-energy (https://local12.com/news/nation-world/exxon-mobil-doubled-its-profit-from-last-year-to-nearly-55-billion-oil-and-gas-prices-rose-steadily-russian-operations-gasoline-energy)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 02, 2022, 11:53:20 AM

I wonder how much money was wasted on this thing.

SCOTUS unanimously rules Boston violated group's rights by refusing to fly Christian flag | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/scotus-sides-group-flying-christian-flag-at-boston-city-hall)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 02, 2022, 11:58:56 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 02, 2022, 10:37:27 AM

Other breweries include Pivovar Budějovický Budvar, or Budweiser Budvar Brewery; this one has the rights to use the brand name “Budweiser” throughout most of Europe. It has also successfully resisted all efforts from American brewer Anheuser-Busch to gain the exclusive right to the name. The brewery has a visitors’ center, where you can try the real, authentic Budweiser.

FF not sure they'd recognize the Saki you quaff. I had read that in the 1830s or sumsuch the Germans in Bavaria,started tossing back the pilsners the Czechs were making across the border in Bohemia.As it was lighter and not as filling.So the Gerries started making Helles Lager(light bier) in response. So long before Miller/Bud were squaring off.......but not before Yuengling est.1929 - now you know the rest of the story.I'm winded think i'll grab a bier

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2022, 12:44:36 PM

When I was in college, we had no real choice in beer, to speak of.  A place downtown served Schlitz Dark, which I enjoyed a lot, but it was crappy beer.  We had Scholitz, PBR, Bud, Miller, Mic, and then Stroh came along.  No Coors, unless someone drove some back.  I think we could buy Heineken, but no one did.  I seem to recall St. Pauli Girl at some liquor shops.

My first day in grad school was taking exams, placement tests really, about 6 hours worth, so I walk downtown in CH exhausted and order a gin and tonic.  Much to my suprise the bar couldn't serve liquor.  There were only three bars for students in CH, a thing which still amazes me, and they were not large bars.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 02, 2022, 01:11:40 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 02, 2022, 11:53:20 AM

I wonder how much money was wasted on this thing.

SCOTUS unanimously rules Boston violated group's rights by refusing to fly Christian flag | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/scotus-sides-group-flying-christian-flag-at-boston-city-hall)

Setting aside the petty politics that no doubt subsumed that thing, it is an interesting bit of constitutional clarification. If one is into the policy elements of all that. Deciding that something like that is a public form vs. any element of government speech (that would thereby be endorsing one faith over another) is interesting in itself. 

It's a bit of a shoddy piece of journalism, lacking a good bit of the context one would hope for, namely what happend before it reached the Supreme Court. 

But the law of the land has been clarified, which is good. No doubt it will allow symbols of all faiths to fly proudly around government buildings, should certain communities ask for it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2022, 01:32:29 PM

Cincinnati ran into trouble with something like this, they allowed various Christmas decorations in a public square, including Jewish, which was fine, until the "KKK" showed up and wanted theirs.  Would you want them to fly a Church of Satan flag?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 02, 2022, 01:37:38 PM

I don't care what flag a person chooses to fly, so long as it's an American Flag.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 02, 2022, 01:38:24 PM

or an upside down Horns flag ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 02, 2022, 02:00:36 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 02, 2022, 01:32:29 PM

Cincinnati ran into trouble with something like this, they allowed various Christmas decorations in a public square, including Jewish, which was fine, until the "KKK" showed up and wanted theirs.  Would you want them to fly a Church of Satan flag?

If everyone else can come they probably should be able to as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 02, 2022, 02:10:04 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 02, 2022, 01:38:24 PM

or an upside down Horns flag ;)

Im going to start calling you OAM Jr

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2022, 02:15:35 PM

Were I in charge, I'd fly only US, state, and city flags in front of any municipal building on city property.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 02, 2022, 02:16:03 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 02, 2022, 01:38:24 PM

or an upside down Horns flag ;)

That sounds like the most American flag of all, TBH. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 02, 2022, 02:26:42 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 02, 2022, 01:32:29 PM

Cincinnati ran into trouble with something like this, they allowed various Christmas decorations in a public square, including Jewish, which was fine, until the "KKK" showed up and wanted theirs.  Would you want them to fly a Church of Satan flag?

So I guess it just matters which boyz in the hood you're talking about

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 02, 2022, 02:58:52 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 02, 2022, 01:32:29 PM

Cincinnati ran into trouble with something like this, they allowed various Christmas decorations in a public square, including Jewish, which was fine, until the "KKK" showed up and wanted theirs.  Would you want them to fly a Church of Satan flag?

The Church of Satan has exactly the same amount of evidence for it's truth as any other church.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 02, 2022, 03:31:17 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 02, 2022, 02:58:52 PM

The Church of Satan has exactly the same amount of evidence for it's truth as any other church. 

and they should also be allowed to fly a flag

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 02, 2022, 03:36:52 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 02, 2022, 02:15:35 PM

Were I in charge, I'd fly only US, state, and city flags in front of any municipal building on city property. 

Correct.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 02, 2022, 06:37:02 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 02, 2022, 03:31:17 PM

and they should also be allowed to fly a flag

Yep, all flags of every crazy idea should fly free.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 02, 2022, 06:58:23 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 02, 2022, 02:15:35 PM

Were I in charge, I'd fly only US, state, and city flags in front of any municipal building on city property. 

You would even ban the county flag? :o

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 02, 2022, 06:59:51 PM

The proper order to fly them in, btw, is Country, State, County, City

(https://live.staticflickr.com/3802/9368238413_6be76be6a2_b.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 03, 2022, 12:07:02 AM

well, that's just like your opinion, Man

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2022, 06:50:39 AM

A county flag would be fine, any flag of the civil institution and higher.  I think we even had a village flag.  Places like the CDC also have their own flag.

Just fly government flags and you're done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 03, 2022, 08:58:33 AM

(https://nebraska.tv/resources/media2/16x9/full/1015/center/80/4c709e96-c397-45f9-b422-8bdf6f028511-large16x9_NebraskaNflag.PNG)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 03, 2022, 09:24:34 AM

I think the WSU flag is always allowed to crash the party

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 03, 2022, 09:33:37 AM

Quote from: ELA on May 03, 2022, 09:24:34 AM

I think the WSU flag is always allowed to crash the party

See, now that belongs in front of Boston’s city hall. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 03, 2022, 11:00:40 AM

pretty massive news coming out late last night that someone leaked a SCOTUS initial draft majority opinion written by Supreme Court Justice Alito which states that the Supreme Court is going to overturn Roe v. Wade- leaving the abortion issue up to the states and effectively making abortions illegal in half the country.

No draft in the history of the court has been disclosed publicly while a case was pending. Pretty shocking and obviously it was someone trying to influence the court- which is a huge problem in and of itself. I'm all for leakers when it comes to the government- people like Bradley Manning or Edward Snowden did a great service to this country letting us know what our federal government and it's "intelligence" agencies and military were really doing and shining light on the laws they were breaking and crimes they were committing. Those people were heroes that deserved pardons and parades. This? This is just flat out disgusting. They need to find the leaker and prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law. You cannot have someone leaking in order to influence the freaking Supreme Court.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2022, 11:10:47 AM

University of Georgia professor Jonathan Peters, who has written about leaks at the court, has noted that Roe isn’t the only high-profile case where there’s been a leak. The New York Tribune, for example, published a “running account of the court’s deliberations in Dred Scott,” the infamous 1857 decision that declared African Americans couldn’t be citizens.

“Supreme Court leaks are rare, but they are hardly unprecedented,” Peters wrote in 2012 (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2012/07/the-supreme-court-leaking-john-roberts-decision-to-change-his-mind-on-health-care-should-not-come-as-such-a-surprise.html). “The court, just like our other public institutions, is made up of political animals. We shouldn’t be shocked when they act that way.”


Draft opinion leak unprecedented in Supreme Court’s modern history | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/roe-wade-supreme-court-leaked-draft-opinion-c6a923f6e370672f4a5ccfd3be325786)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 03, 2022, 11:18:24 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 03, 2022, 11:00:40 AM

You cannot have someone leaking in order to influence the freaking Supreme Court.

I don't think it's going to influence them.  I'm guessing the intent was alert Congress to codify something, which won't happen until the filibuster is gone.  And once again the party in power will make moves to consolidate that power, as though they'll never lose it, only to have it bite them in the ass when they don't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 03, 2022, 11:20:07 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 03, 2022, 11:10:47 AM

University of Georgia professor Jonathan Peters, who has written about leaks at the court, has noted that Roe isn’t the only high-profile case where there’s been a leak. The New York Tribune, for example, published a “running account of the court’s deliberations in Dred Scott,” the infamous 1857 decision that declared African Americans couldn’t be citizens.

“Supreme Court leaks are rare, but they are hardly unprecedented,” Peters wrote in 2012 (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2012/07/the-supreme-court-leaking-john-roberts-decision-to-change-his-mind-on-health-care-should-not-come-as-such-a-surprise.html). “The court, just like our other public institutions, is made up of political animals. We shouldn’t be shocked when they act that way.”


Draft opinion leak unprecedented in Supreme Court’s modern history | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/roe-wade-supreme-court-leaked-draft-opinion-c6a923f6e370672f4a5ccfd3be325786)

yeah, no.

It is completely unprecedented. There have been leaks about which way a certain justice was leaning or about some private deliberations, sure- but those were already incredibly rare and incredibly minor to what just happened. There's NEVER in the history of the court been an entire majority draft opinion leak for the world to see. It's literally never happened. That means it's unprecedented.

Now whatever news outlets that received it obviously should've published it- it's 10000000% news worthy. And I'm also against abortion but I'm also vastly more vehemently against the government trying to tell a person what they should do with their own body- if they don't want to have a baby- they don't have to have a baby. And quite frankly- someone that would go through with an abortion would probably make a sh*tty parent and probably shouldn't have a kid anyway. Regardless, that's not something the government should have any role in. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 03, 2022, 11:21:52 AM

Quote from: ELA on May 03, 2022, 11:18:24 AM

I don't think it's going to influence them.  I'm guessing the intent was alert Congress to codify something, which won't happen until the filibuster is gone.  And once again the party in power will make moves to consolidate that power, as though they'll never lose it, only to have it bite them in the ass when they don't.

well, there are already protests outside the court. those protests happened almost immediately. which- that's fine they have that right. Over 2/3rds of Americans agree with Roe v Wade- there is going to be a huge amount of outside public pressure now on them all- and all it will take is one to feel the pressure and change their mind to swing the decision the other way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 03, 2022, 11:28:46 AM

My opinion on this is strong and has never waivered.

This issue has no place in the Federal Government. Or any government. It should not be a political thing. 

This is a decision that can only be made by the woman and her partner (if he knows, of course). 

I've always believed this, even though I'm adopted and very grateful to the woman who decided to give birth to me, rather than abort me. My parents spent over $20K to get me. In 1967.

People out there are trying like hell to adopt kids. So, have it, and give it up for adoption.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 03, 2022, 11:56:11 AM

https://twitter.com/davidgura/status/1521512519898214400?s=20&t=ySQB-whjXZYt_G8YRZ1UTA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 03, 2022, 12:06:54 PM

Quote from: ELA on May 03, 2022, 11:56:11 AM

https://twitter.com/davidgura/status/1521512519898214400?s=20&t=ySQB-whjXZYt_G8YRZ1UTA

clearly an attempt to put massive outside pressure on the courts final decision. pretty disgusting that someone would do this- no matter what views they held. these supreme court justices are human. they'll feel the pressure. all it takes is one person to change their mind. 

they should find who did this and throw them in a prison cell for the maximum length.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 03, 2022, 12:09:19 PM

So as to motive I have not figured out how the dems would benefit from this

The law would revert back to each state instead of the federal gov

Was the leak done to give the dems a focused agenda for the upcoming mid terms

Was it done for the congress to do an end run with some type of legislation

My gut feeling is that someone was very pro choice and felt desperate 

I dont think any benefit will come for either side from this other then a renewed packing the court campaign

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 03, 2022, 01:34:00 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 03, 2022, 11:28:46 AM

My opinion on this is strong and has never waivered.

This issue has no place in the Federal Government. Or any government. It should not be a political thing.

This is a decision that can only be made by the woman and her partner (if he knows, of course).

I've always believed this, even though I'm adopted and very grateful to the woman who decided to give birth to me, rather than abort me. My parents spent over $20K to get me. In 1967.

People out there are trying like hell to adopt kids. So, have it, and give it up for adoption.

While I fully agree- the fact that this was leaked is ver disturbing.  Fairly obvious that some knew it was coming.  A disgusting attempt to wake up the base for the party and get the news off their numerous and constant failures- and lack of leadership.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 03, 2022, 02:50:54 PM

In a brand new interview Bill Gates ex-wife Melinda rips his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein- and says she met Jeffrey Epstein once because she wanted to see who this man her husband was becoming BFF's with was. She says just based off the one meeting she did not like him, felt grossed out by him and felt he was an abhorrent, awful person. She said she made it very clear to her husband Bill that she didn't like Epstein. When asked about Bill and Epstein's friendship she said any other questions on Bill and Epstein's relationship are for Bill to answer. Gates and Epstein met in 2011- three years after Epstein had already been convicted and plead guilty in Florida for having sex with underage girls and becoming a registered sex offender.

An email from Bill Gates to a friend the day after he had met Epstein at Epstein's home in 2011....."his lifestyle is very different, and kind of intriguing, although it would not work for me. A very attractive Swedish woman and her daughter dropped by and I ending up staying there quite late."

Bill Gates maintained a relationship with Epstein until the day Epstein died. For him to lie about their friendship and say he barely knew him is comical. NYT Times investigation proved that Bill Gates has repeatedly lied about the depth of his friendship with Epstein- and that he was also meeting with Epstein without the Gates foundation or his wife Melinda being aware of it- and that they had even traveled together multiple times on Epstein's private jet- "The Lolita Express"....*vomit emoji*

Hopefully more and more will come out about this and it will be the last time we have to ever publicly see or hear of that narcissistic phony f**k stick dweeb Bill Gates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6tcbRGyr8U&t=330s

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on May 03, 2022, 06:04:48 PM

Predictably no shortage of folks saying the Court is banning abortion.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 03, 2022, 06:19:22 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on May 03, 2022, 06:04:48 PM

Predictably no shortage of folks saying the Court is banning abortion. 

Isn’t that the nature of a modern communication or landscape? They will literally always be no shortage of people being aggressively wrong about almost everything, and we will have a great deal of access to highlight/amplify their wrongness.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on May 03, 2022, 06:30:35 PM

We need the Ministry of Disinformation more than ever!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 03, 2022, 06:53:26 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on May 03, 2022, 06:30:35 PM

We need the Ministry of Disinformation more than ever!

I would have called that the worst idea I’ve seen in a while, but CNN plus existed like three weeks ago, so it technically avoids the basement.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 03, 2022, 07:16:34 PM

It's funny that the party who hates government overreach wants Roe v Wade reversed.
.
Is there a word for that?  There should be a word for that.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 03, 2022, 07:24:07 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 03, 2022, 07:16:34 PM

It's funny that the party who hates government overreach wants Roe v Wade reversed.
.
Is there a word for that?  There should be a word for that. 

a lot of folks feel the Roe v Wade finding was overreach in itself

I personally feel the woman should have the right to chose but not after 15 weeks

The reversal of Roe v Wade would not in itself ban abortions but would allow each state to decide or itself

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 03, 2022, 07:30:42 PM

It'd be smarter if they let each county decide for itself, so some people aren't completely screwed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 03, 2022, 07:32:23 PM

If men got pregnant and gave birth, abortions would be legal and free everywhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 03, 2022, 07:47:43 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 03, 2022, 07:16:34 PM

It's funny that the party who hates government overreach wants Roe v Wade reversed.
.
Is there a word for that?  There should be a word for that. 

it is a quite strange, but the Republican party got co-opted by Jesus Freak Bible Thumpers starting in the '80s- which is probably why their stance is what it is on abortion.

Reminds me of today how the Democrat party has been co-opted by Russophobes, CeNsOr mE hArDeR dAdDy nut jobs, and the pink haired women, nail polish wearing men and LGBTQRETRA++ millennial/Gen Z freakazoids starting in around oh...2016.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 03, 2022, 07:47:58 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 03, 2022, 07:32:23 PM

If men got pregnant and gave birth, abortions would be legal and free everywhere.

According to one party, men do get pregnant. Their lemmings even have a emoji for it.  

and abortions are legal and free I’m most of this country.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 03, 2022, 07:49:01 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 03, 2022, 07:32:23 PM

If men got pregnant and gave birth, abortions would be legal and free everywhere.

they can....according to a certain wing of one of the parties....I'll let you guess which one....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 03, 2022, 07:51:05 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 03, 2022, 07:47:43 PM

it is a quite strange, but the Republican party got co-opted by Jesus Freak Bible Thumpers starting in the '80s- which is probably why their stance is what it is on abortion.

Reminds me of today how the Democrat party has been co-opted by Russophobes, CeNsOr mE hArDeR dAdDy nut jobs, and the pink haired women, nail polish wearing men and LGBTQRETRA++ millennial/Gen Z freakazoids starting in around oh...2016.

Meh.  There are definitely more Republicans than Democrats in the crowd I am familiar with. Mostly middle-class upper middle class families with 2 to 4 college degrees in the household, taxpaying law-abiding and community giving people.   They virtually all do not want to see row versus wade overturned. Maybe the extreme right does I guess.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 03, 2022, 07:51:37 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 03, 2022, 07:47:43 PM

it is a quite strange, but the Republican party got co-opted by Jesus Freak Bible Thumpers starting in the '80s- which is probably why their stance is what it is on abortion.

Reminds me of today how the Democrat party has been co-opted by Russophobes, CeNsOr mE hArDeR dAdDy nut jobs, and the pink haired women, nail polish wearing men and LGBTQRETRA++ millennial/Gen Z freakazoids starting in around oh...2016.

Not co-opted as much as strategically added to the base. Politically it was genius. After Watergate, the dams could put anyone up, even Jimmy Carter, and he'd get elected.  As far as governance ideology, it is very odd that the party of limited government added to their base, an entire category of voters, who vote based on added government barriers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 03, 2022, 07:52:06 PM

comedians really are the only people who tell truth...

https://twitter.com/ComicDaveSmith/status/1521471139175972864?s=20&t=kwJ7kA15PX3U_dCisFQLdQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 03, 2022, 07:53:58 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 03, 2022, 07:52:06 PM

comedians really are the only people who tell truth...

https://twitter.com/ComicDaveSmith/status/1521471139175972864?s=20&t=kwJ7kA15PX3U_dCisFQLdQ

😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 03, 2022, 07:54:59 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 03, 2022, 07:51:05 PM

Meh.  There are definitely more Republicans than Democrats in the crowd I am familiar with. Mostly middle-class upper middle class families with 2 to 4 college degrees in the household, taxpaying law-abiding and community giving people.  They virtually all do not want to see row versus wade overturned. Maybe the extreme right does I guess.

The key is suburban white women. I know a lot of them who were lifelong Republicans, who voted against Trump. I don't think DeSantis is going to win them back. None of them like Biden. They mostly view him as a non-threat, not Trump option. I think what has gained DeSantis so much political favor in Florida won't carry over for them as much as the RNC hopes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 03, 2022, 07:55:04 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 03, 2022, 07:47:43 PM

it is a quite strange, but the Republican party got co-opted by Jesus Freak Bible Thumpers starting in the '80s- which is probably why their stance is what it is on abortion.

Reminds me of today how the Democrat party has been co-opted by Russophobes, CeNsOr mE hArDeR dAdDy nut jobs, and the pink haired women, nail polish wearing men and LGBTQRETRA++ millennial/Gen Z freakazoids starting in around oh...2016.

Great.
But only one of them is trying to legislate 100+ million people what they can't do with their bodies.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 03, 2022, 07:55:55 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 03, 2022, 07:51:05 PM

Meh.  There are definitely more Republicans than Democrats in the crowd I am familiar with. Mostly middle-class upper middle class families with 2 to 4 college degrees in the household, taxpaying law-abiding and community giving people.  They virtually all do not want to see row versus wade overturned. Maybe the extreme right does I guess.

2/3rds of the population are against the government banning abortion. That means quite a lot of republicans don't want Roe v Wade overturned. 

The Jesus freaks are 100% in the Republican camp- and well the extremes of both parties always have an out-sized influence even if they aren't a majority of their party, precisely because: they are extremists. They are the loudest voices and try to bully the party into doing what they want and they try to exercise their power more than the silent majority. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 03, 2022, 07:57:31 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 03, 2022, 07:51:05 PM

Meh.  There are definitely more Republicans than Democrats in the crowd I am familiar with. Mostly middle-class upper middle class families with 2 to 4 college degrees in the household, taxpaying law-abiding and community giving people.  They virtually all do not want to see row versus wade overturned. Maybe the extreme right does I guess.

You truly are one sanctimonious piece of shit, aren't you?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 03, 2022, 07:59:39 PM

Quote from: ELA on May 03, 2022, 07:54:59 PM

The key is suburban white women. I know a lot of them who were lifelong Republicans, who voted against Trump. I don't think DeSantis is going to win them back. None of them like Biden. They mostly view him as a non-threat, not Trump option. I think what has gained DeSantis so much political favor in Florida won't carry over for them as much as the RNC hopes

I think DeSantis would fare much better with the suburban white women.

Trump is a grotesque figure to a lot of women. The whole "grab her by the p*ssy" thing- his 3 or 4 marriages and the fact that he's cheated on every single one of his wives- and the Stormy Daniels pornstar scandal- he's a very scumbaggish easy to dislike guy for probably 99.9% of women and 100% of uppity suburban white women.

DeSantis isn't going to have any of those problems.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 03, 2022, 08:01:19 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 03, 2022, 07:55:55 PM

2/3rds of the population are against the government banning abortion. That means quite a lot of republicans don't want Roe v Wade overturned.

The Jesus freaks are 100% in the Republican camp- and well the extremes of both parties always have an out-sized influence even if they aren't a majority of their party, precisely because: they are extremists. They are the loudest voices and try to bully the party into doing what they want and they try to exercise their power more than the silent majority.

Thats the reason why if leaking was a political move to help the dems it wont really be an issue

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 03, 2022, 08:02:01 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 03, 2022, 07:57:31 PM

You truly are one sanctimonious piece of shit, aren't you?

Since your used to it/  Go fuck yourself.  Those are the people I know- described perfectly. 

you truly are the scummiest piece  of shit I see across social media.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 03, 2022, 08:05:33 PM

OAM has escaped and is terrorizing the villagers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 03, 2022, 08:07:21 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 03, 2022, 07:55:04 PM

Great.
But only one of them is trying to legislate 100+ million people what they can't do with their bodies. 

Yeah, and the other one wishes it could censor the entire internet- it literally just set-up a government "ministry of truth" within the DHS, constantly peddles disinformation and lies (Hunter Biden's laptop says HI) like it's their f**king job- look no further than their evidence free based conspiracy theory- Russiagate- and is in complete lock-step and alignment with the deep state/"intelligence"/military industrial complex and wants to start WWIII with Russia.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

Quite frankly, the abortion thing is pretty bad but I am FAR more concerned with the Democrats than I am with the Republicans right now. Like Malcom X said about the white liberals 50+ years ago.......

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 03, 2022, 08:08:51 PM

https://twitter.com/ComicDaveSmith/status/1521495785581559809?s=20&t=kwJ7kA15PX3U_dCisFQLdQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 03, 2022, 08:09:11 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 03, 2022, 08:05:33 PM

OAM has escaped and is terrorizing the villagers

Yes.  He is an extreme leftie, ignorant and self centered.  He hates anyone who has worked their ass off and believes his own drivel.  Moron would be an upgrade. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 03, 2022, 08:15:13 PM

You're precisely the amount of wrong that I'd predict you'd be.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 03, 2022, 08:15:48 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 03, 2022, 07:59:39 PM

I think DeSantis would fare much better with the suburban white women.

Trump is a grotesque figure to a lot of women. The whole "grab her by the p*ssy" thing- his 3 or 4 marriages and the fact that he's cheated on every single one of his wives- and the Stormy Daniels pornstar scandal- he's a very scumbaggish easy to dislike guy for probably 99.9% of women and 100% of uppity suburban white women.

DeSantis isn't going to have any of those problems.

Unless something big happens to Trump he has the nomination in a cakewalk

DeSantis could be a great VP pick

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 03, 2022, 08:17:37 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 03, 2022, 08:15:13 PM

You're precisely the amount of wrong that I'd predict you'd be. 

remember what I told ya about your social ability

you over stepped with no need

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 03, 2022, 08:28:48 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 03, 2022, 08:15:48 PM

Unless something big happens to Trump he has the nomination in a cakewalk

DeSantis could be a great VP pick

I don't disagree. Trump will be the nominee if he runs. DeSantis "insiders" have said he's not going to run if Trump does- and that he doesn't want to have to fight Trump, which I can't say I blame him. Trump does not play nice- and he ended like 20 Republicans careers back in the 2016 race, sh*t all over them and destroyed them- and then got most of them to be subservient to him once he got in office. It was astonishing to see to be honest with you.

I don't think Trump wants DeSantis as VP. He'll get Florida without DeSantis being on the ticket- Florida has officially turned red. He'd need someone who can help bring him an important swing state like PA or Michigan or Wisconsin or shockingly Georgia...all states which he lost in 2020.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 03, 2022, 08:31:33 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 03, 2022, 08:01:19 PM

Thats the reason why if leaking was a political move to help the dems it wont really be an issue

I disagree, I think it'll charge up the Dem base hardcore and send Dems out in droves to the polls and might even flip women that were on the fence that might've for sure voted Republican had this not been overturned but may now vote Democrat over this single issue.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 03, 2022, 08:35:44 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 03, 2022, 07:59:39 PM

I think DeSantis would fare much better with the suburban white women.

Trump is a grotesque figure to a lot of women. The whole "grab her by the p*ssy" thing- his 3 or 4 marriages and the fact that he's cheated on every single one of his wives- and the Stormy Daniels pornstar scandal- he's a very scumbaggish easy to dislike guy for probably 99.9% of women and 100% of uppity suburban white women.

DeSantis isn't going to have any of those problems.

They view Trump as so toxic, I don't think they'd vote for anyone under his wing.

The best thing he could do, is go away, but he's too arrogant for that.  As most within an arms reach of the White House are.  Hell, how many times was Biden rejected by the elctorate, before, with nothing new on his resume,.still seeking the nomination?  And he's just got normal politician hubris.  Not Trump level hubris

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 03, 2022, 08:45:20 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 03, 2022, 08:31:33 PM

I disagree, I think it'll charge up the Dem base hardcore and send Dems out in droves to the polls and might even flip women that were on the fence that might've for sure voted Republican had this not been overturned but may now vote Democrat over this single issue.

yes I understand the dems will try to make it an issue

Its very possible that SCOTUS will not overturn the law and everyone will go back to sleep

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 03, 2022, 08:54:16 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 03, 2022, 08:28:48 PM

I don't think Trump wants DeSantis as VP. He'll get Florida without DeSantis being on the ticket- Florida has officially turned red. He'd need someone who can help bring him an important swing state like PA or Michigan or Wisconsin or shockingly Georgia...all states which he lost in 2020.

I don't see either one benefitting from that partnership.  I also don't think geography matters.  Trumpers are Trumpers.  He needs someone to get back those suburban white women he lost.  Marsha Blackburn?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on May 03, 2022, 09:03:05 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 03, 2022, 07:16:34 PM

It's funny that the party who hates government overreach wants Roe v Wade reversed.
.
Is there a word for that?  There should be a word for that. 

Self governance over the creative whims of the robed judicial fiat?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on May 03, 2022, 09:04:37 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 03, 2022, 08:45:20 PM

yes I understand the dems will try to make it an issue

Its very possible that SCOTUS will not overturn the law and everyone will go back to sleep

They wouldn't be overturning a law.   They are empowering us to govern ourselves again. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 03, 2022, 09:20:39 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on May 03, 2022, 09:04:37 PM

They wouldn't be overturning a law.  They are empowering us to govern ourselves again.

My point is that this is probably much ado about nothin

When the dust settles the other 8 judges may very well vote to keep the law as it is

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 03, 2022, 11:39:26 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on May 03, 2022, 09:03:05 PM

Self governance over the creative whims of the robed judicial fiat?

Is that a fancy, inaccurate acronym for 'hypocrite?'

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 03, 2022, 11:57:37 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 03, 2022, 11:39:26 PM

Is that a fancy, inaccurate acronym for 'hypocrite?'

no its allowing the people to choose what they want

you could kinda look at it as democracy pro choice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 04, 2022, 01:33:41 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 03, 2022, 11:57:37 PM

no its allowing the people to choose what they want

you could kinda look at it as democracy pro choice

Nice spin.

Let's have some places remove the choice of the individual.  
Yeah, it's like allowing people to choose what their neighbors can do, I mean choose what they want!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 04, 2022, 01:34:10 AM

WARNING:  AVALANCHE OF BULLSHIT IN THE AREA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 04, 2022, 06:53:54 AM

This is obviously a contentious subject likely to produce inflamed passions which perhaps we should avoid here.

We as a society have difficulty when basic rights collide.  We have difficulty anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 04, 2022, 07:00:49 AM

Quote from: ELA on May 03, 2022, 08:54:16 PM

I don't see either one benefitting from that partnership.  I also don't think geography matters.  Trumpers are Trumpers.  He needs someone to get back those suburban white women he lost.  Marsha Blackburn?

Tim Scott is my choice for the R nomination.

I'd rather DeSantis stay here, and see Florida eliminate term limits for the Governor.


(https://i.imgur.com/fxcnSXY.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 04, 2022, 07:04:06 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 04, 2022, 06:53:54 AM

This is obviously a contentious subject likely to produce inflamed passions which perhaps we should avoid here.

We as a society have difficulty when basic rights collide.  We have difficulty anyway.

Personal attacks are not well liked here.

And, yes, it's contentious. Thankfully I have managed to tune out the MSM noise on this subject for 50 years.

THIS SHOULD NOT BE A POLITICAL THING.

90 percent of the people don't even know WTH Roe v Wade even is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on May 04, 2022, 08:26:06 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 02, 2022, 01:38:24 PM

or an upside down Horns flag ;)

Speaking of upside down Longhorns...

https://twitter.com/RedditCFB/status/1520540795199266821

https://twitter.com/Aaron_Torres/status/1520790573761789952

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 04, 2022, 08:28:13 AM

I do not understand Texas football - at all.  The above is astonishing to me.  I get that it's coaching, OK, fine, but even a modestly decent coach should do pretty well there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 04, 2022, 08:46:53 AM

:043:

There were widespread expectations that the correspondents’ dinner would worsen the spread of Covid as more than 2,500 attendees crammed into a massive hotel ballroom. “Daily Show” host Trevor Noah, the evening’s comedic host, joked about the likelihood that many in attendance would contract Covid.

“It is my great honor to be speaking tonight at the nation’s most distinguished super-spreader event,” Noah said.

“Like, do you read any of your own newspapers? I mean, I expect this from Sean Hannity. But the rest of you? What are you doing here? You guys spent the last two years telling everyone the importance of wearing masks and avoiding large, indoor gatherings. Then the second someone offers you a free dinner, you all turn into Joe Rogan, huh?”



Jonathan Karl tests positive for Covid after sitting next to Kim Kardashian - POLITICO (https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/03/jonathan-karl-positive-covid-kim-kardashian-00029712)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 04, 2022, 08:54:15 AM

Quote from: ELA on May 03, 2022, 08:54:16 PM

I don't see either one benefitting from that partnership.  I also don't think geography matters.  Trumpers are Trumpers.  He needs someone to get back those suburban white women he lost.  Marsha Blackburn?

if he runs again he definitely needs to tone it down a notch or two and pick a woman who can connect with the suburban white women as his VP. And if I were advising him- I'd tell him to pick a high profile woman from GA, MI, WI, PA or AZ that could help get that state.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 04, 2022, 08:58:18 AM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on May 04, 2022, 08:26:06 AM

Speaking of upside down Longhorns...

https://twitter.com/RedditCFB/status/1520540795199266821

https://twitter.com/Aaron_Torres/status/1520790573761789952

damn....both those tweets are nuts....Texas keeps making bad hires. Mack Brown was over the hill and probably needed to retire, but g*d damn Charlie Strong, Tom Herman, and Steve Sarkisian were some awful hires. As much as I can't stand Jim Harbaugh anymore, I'm glad he didn't leave for the Vikings. Holy shit. Things could always be worse. Stick with the devil you know....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 04, 2022, 09:00:03 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 04, 2022, 07:00:49 AM

Tim Scott is my choice for the R nomination.

I'd rather DeSantis stay here, and see Florida eliminate term limits for the Governor.


(https://i.imgur.com/fxcnSXY.png)

hahaha. I'd be down for that. Florida has never fared better as a state than under his leadership. He's too good though and too many g*d damn people are moving here now because of that fact.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 04, 2022, 09:03:53 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 04, 2022, 08:28:13 AM

I do not understand Texas football - at all.  The above is astonishing to me.  I get that it's coaching, OK, fine, but even a modestly decent coach should do pretty well there.

yeah, it's pretty astonishing to me as well. Texas has to have a major booster problem and they just keep striking out on their coaching hires. They hit a home run on the coaching hire- that program will be right back near the top like they were under Mack before he started to teeter off of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 04, 2022, 09:06:23 AM

If UT were to somehow be able to steal Dave Aranda... Look out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 04, 2022, 09:07:06 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 04, 2022, 01:33:41 AM

Nice spin.

Let's have some places remove the choice of the individual. 
Yeah, it's like allowing people to choose what their neighbors can do, I mean choose what they want!

yeah, except it's not really spin. I'd rather Roe v. Wade not be overturned....but Roe v Wade is a court case/decision, it's not law. The constitution never said a single word about abortion. If the court overturns it's earlier decision- then it would be up to the people to vote for Senators and House of Reps. who will pass a federal law banning the government from being involved in abortion.

I do think there should be a law on the books at the federal level that basically says that any government- federal or state- cannot ban abortion or be involved in abortion decisions. I don't know why they've never done this to be honest.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 04, 2022, 09:10:33 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 04, 2022, 09:06:23 AM

If UT were to somehow be able to steal Dave Aranda... Look out.

I think he'd crush it at Texas as well, but he's got a cushy gig at Baylor. Texas going to the SEC is going to make that job even harder now. My guess is that job is one of the toughest there is bc of the boosters and the pressure they put on a coach and the meddling they do. Now they are going from probably the easiest conference there is out there to the toughest conference there is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 04, 2022, 09:11:41 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 04, 2022, 09:07:06 AM

yeah, except it's not really spin. I'd rather Roe v. Wade not be overturned....but Roe v Wade is a court case/decision, it's not law. The constitution never said a single word about abortion. If the court overturns it's earlier decision- then it would be up to the people to vote for Senators and House of Reps. who will pass a federal law banning the government from being involved in abortion.

I do think there should be a law on the books at the federal level that basically says that any government- federal or state- cannot ban abortion or be involved in abortion decisions. I don't know why they've never done this to be honest.

I do.

It became a political football, with both sides using it against each other.

By the way... 

Guess who voted against Roe V Wade in 1981, when he was a Senator from Delaware?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 04, 2022, 09:12:25 AM

per ESPN: 

There were 32 players drafted who attended Texas high schools. None of them played for the Longhorns.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 04, 2022, 09:12:40 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 04, 2022, 09:10:33 AM

I think he'd crush it at Texas as well, but he's got a cushy gig at Baylor. Texas going to the SEC is going to make that job even harder now. My guess is that job is one of the toughest there is bc of the boosters and the pressure they put on a coach and the meddling they do. Now they are going from probably the easiest conference there is out there to the toughest conference there is.

I think UT and OU are both gonna regret their move.

They should have gone West - or stayed where they were.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 04, 2022, 09:14:49 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 04, 2022, 09:12:40 AM

I think UT and OU are both gonna regret their move.

They should have gone West - or stayed where they were.

agree 100%. 

They should've tried to force their way into the PAC and they could've dominated that conference. Lincoln Riley's USC is just going to be OU with better skill players on offense- he still isn't going to play any defense.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 04, 2022, 09:18:46 AM

I am curious to see how Quinn Ewers is going to do at Texas. Kid was about as hyped as it gets. He was the #1 QB and #1 HS player in the entire nation for the 2022 class according to all the 'crootin' services- he then reclassified to the 2021 class and maintained that #1 QB and #1 player status. Something you just don't really ever see. He's the most hyped recruit from the state of Texas since Vince Young. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 04, 2022, 10:33:53 AM

Dave Chappelle attacked on stage late last night in Hollywood by a man with a gun and knife when he was performing at a Netflix comedy event. Jamie Foxx rushed on the stage to help subdue the criminal and they were able to pin him down while security and police got rid of him. Thank GOD it was not worse. Chappelle was not injured and he was able to finish the set.

Probably some left wing tranny whack job. Hope they give that scumbag the death penalty. But it’s California, so they’ll probably give him/her or it an award and $900 a month. 

Will Smith is not without blame. One of the biggest celebrities in the world just normalized this sort of despicable behavior. If I’m Chris Rock I’m suing Will Smith today for $200 million like Jim Carey suggested.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 04, 2022, 10:42:29 AM

Was there any reason for the UT/OU move other than money?  Maybe prestige?  Better shot at the playoff (???)?

Moving to the Pac would have meant a lot less money.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on May 04, 2022, 10:55:14 AM

I am only going to post once on this topic, you all can say what you want about me after, I don't care. 

First, Roe v Wade is one of the worst reasoned Supreme Court decisions in the history of the court and needs to be overturned.  Any reasonable reading of the decision sees that the justices made up what they wanted. Rights found in the penumbra of the constitution. Well you can anything you want in the shadows because you can't actually see what is in a shadow. Again poorly reasoned. 

Second, the issue of abortion boils down to where life begins.  You either own your body or you don't.  There is no denying that a baby in the womb is a completely unique DNA individual from the mother.  It is not the mother's body that is ripped apart and being killed. (Intent ally loaded words)  And ultimately that is where I lie on the issue.  No one has the right to kill another person without due process of law (and there are many on both sides of abortion issue who believe we can't even do that after birth). We can talk about viability, but none of us could live without someone providing sustenance to us for long after we left the womb. 

I would never tell a woman what she can or can't do with her body, but I will tell her she can't kill another human being. I am a pretty extreme libertarian and believe that fundamental to most if not all rights is the right to property and the ultimate property being your own person. And abortion is deny a person that right. 

We can talk about the tough cases, but ultimately, at least according to the stats I have seen are only somewhere between 1% and 3% and those can be handled on an individual basis. 

Abortions is a great immorality, deny a unique human being the right to life without due process. It is funny the court found a right that didn't actually exist in the constitution, but denied a unique person the right to due process which is in the constitution. 

And before I get the "you only care about babies in the womb" I have been involved and supported organization which take care of women and their babies after birth with "troubled" pregnancy.  I don't know any pro-life organization which isn't dedicated to being there after the birth. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 04, 2022, 11:23:38 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on May 04, 2022, 10:55:14 AM

fundamental to most if not all rights is the right to property and the ultimate property being your own person. And abortion is deny a person that right.

Well now I’m just thinking of the philosophical trickle down of all this. Not speaking loudly for one side of another, but simply musing that to not deny someone else a central right, a person must be, to a degree, deprived of the right of owning their own physical person. 

I suppose it’s a case of one right being weighed just a hair above another, but it’s a fine difference indeed. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 04, 2022, 11:24:11 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 04, 2022, 10:42:29 AM

Was there any reason for the UT/OU move other than money?  Maybe prestige?  Better shot at the playoff (???)?

Moving to the Pac would have meant a lot less money.

Money and hype. All of sports are built on anticipation, and this helps there 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 04, 2022, 11:34:04 AM

video of the piece of shit that tried to jump on stage and attack Dave Chapelle with what police now say was a fake gun and a knife being escorted into an ambulance after police arrived on scene.... 

Chappelle's security team beat the ever loving f**king shit out of this garbage and looks like they broke his arm and legs and twisted him up like a pretzel. Shame they didn't kill him. 

https://twitter.com/PTOTHEMCD/status/1521747809841598464?s=20&t=Os5K352RFU5qj8CW2sjaOw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 04, 2022, 11:37:08 AM

You think it's a shame they didn't kill him?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 04, 2022, 11:39:32 AM

longhorn not understand why we are talking about how bad Texas is while also having a discussion about abortion

this is a mean group

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 04, 2022, 11:41:02 AM

Texas is a Blue Blood in football by any measure and it's curious how they could stay down this long, to me, with upper level recruiting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 04, 2022, 11:42:34 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 04, 2022, 11:23:38 AM

Well now I’m just thinking of the philosophical trickle down of all this. Not speaking loudly for one side of another, but simply musing that to not deny someone else a central right, a person must be, to a degree, deprived of the right of owning their own physical person.

I suppose it’s a case of one right being weighed just a hair above another, but it’s a fine difference indeed.

Well said. It is a tough issue.  

I do think the federal government needs to be out of it though. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 04, 2022, 11:44:00 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 04, 2022, 11:37:08 AM

You think it's a shame they didn't kill him?

meh. people that unhinged and psychotic do not deserve life and it's a complete waste of tax payer dollar to keep them in prison for life, and a liberal shithole like California will probably just let the scumbag out in a year or two anyway. Thank god that piece of shit had a fake gun and not a real one- and thank god Chappelle had security up the ass and his security team was able to respond immediately and beat the piece of shit to a pulp and he didn't get to injure/maim or worse...mortally wound Chappelle with his knife.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 04, 2022, 11:47:59 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 04, 2022, 11:39:32 AM

longhorn not understand why we are talking about how bad Texas is while also having a discussion about abortion

this is a mean group

I’d prefer more of the former. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 04, 2022, 11:48:03 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on May 04, 2022, 10:55:14 AM

I am only going to post once on this topic, you all can say what you want about me after, I don't care.

First, Roe v Wade is one of the worst reasoned Supreme Court decisions in the history of the court and needs to be overturned.  Any reasonable reading of the decision sees that the justices made up what they wanted. Rights found in the penumbra of the constitution. Well you can anything you want in the shadows because you can't actually see what is in a shadow. Again poorly reasoned.

Even Justice RBG (RIP) took this stance. Very poorly reasoned.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 04, 2022, 12:21:58 PM

On the topic of Finland/Sweden and NATO, I figure their objective is to stay out of war with anyone, right? 

Does joining NATO make war more or less probable?  Is Russia likely to invade either as a neutral in the next 20 years?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 04, 2022, 12:31:08 PM

I think it's a hedge in case this whole Ukraine fiasco does not result in the wholesale collapse of the Putin government.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 05, 2022, 02:50:35 AM

A look at the history of tactical nuclear weapons | Popular Science (popsci.com) (https://www.popsci.com/technology/tactical-nuclear-weapons-explained/?utm_campaign=trueanthem_AI&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_term=popularscience&fbclid=IwAR2mzXexVyGtUop5MQRv59mYVyBzZOKLCZ3JPhvvh5x-KGcajwROYCMgR9A)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 05, 2022, 08:18:48 AM

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-abortion-disinformation-campaign-roe-v-wade-samuel-alito-griswold-supreme-court-11651703428?st=ydxnajimo7b1276&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 05, 2022, 09:27:27 AM

Moon dust is said to smell like spent gunpowder.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 05, 2022, 09:28:05 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 05, 2022, 02:50:35 AM

A look at the history of tactical nuclear weapons | Popular Science (popsci.com) (https://www.popsci.com/technology/tactical-nuclear-weapons-explained/?utm_campaign=trueanthem_AI&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_term=popularscience&fbclid=IwAR2mzXexVyGtUop5MQRv59mYVyBzZOKLCZ3JPhvvh5x-KGcajwROYCMgR9A)

this doesn't really say much.

the idea that a "tactical" nuclear weapon is OK to use and not all that bad is well....just insane. They are still nuclear weapons with radioactive fallout that could kill tens or hundreds of thousands of people in an instant.

Is that somehow OK just because they might have a yield of 5 or 10 or 15 or 20 kilotons (Hiroshima = 15 kilotons) vs "strategic" thermonuclear weapons which can have yields hundreds of even thousands of times greater and could level entire cities and kill millions in an instant instead of tens or hundreds of thousands?

Yeah, no. Neither one are OK. Neither one should be used. There's no such thing as a "tactical" or "safe" nuclear weapon. It's still a f**king nuclear weapon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 05, 2022, 09:41:35 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 05, 2022, 08:18:48 AM

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-abortion-disinformation-campaign-roe-v-wade-samuel-alito-griswold-supreme-court-11651703428?st=ydxnajimo7b1276&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

good read.

I find myself torn on this. My gut reaction is the same though- government should stay out. Government should stay out of most things. And this issue is certainly not their place.

On the other hand....the earth can sustain and support several times its current population and we are running out of new people fast.
US has had over 63,000,000 abortions since 1973 alone. No wonder why there has been labor shortages here. The world is heading towards population collapse. Just look at the birth rates of almost every major country year over year- declining. If civilization falls- it will probably be because of this. Just take a look at Japan, which has the oldest population in the entire world and which is the 3rd richest country in the world- and where adult diapers now outsell baby diapers. Japan has 127 million people currently, taking into account life expectancy and their continually declining birth rates- Japan will have just under 100 million people by 2050, and around 85 million people by 2100 and around half it's current population by 2150. Japan is the most severe case but this is happening all over the industrialized world.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 05, 2022, 09:41:55 AM

Nobody said or implied otherwise.  At all.

Our nukes today are more typically in the 300-500 kt range, so about 20-30x Hiroshima.  The Russians tested one at 57 mt, but realized the value of such a powerful explosion was limited by geometric factors.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 05, 2022, 09:43:08 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 05, 2022, 09:27:27 AM

Moon dust is said to smell like spent gunpowder.

Lee Harvey - you mad man I want to party with you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 05, 2022, 09:48:42 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 05, 2022, 09:41:35 AM

the earth can sustain and support several times its current population and we are running out of new people fast.
US has had over 63,000,000 abortions since 1973 alone. No wonder why there has been labor shortages here. The world is heading towards population collapse.

If there is a collapse it's because obviously everyone won't be getting sustained.Even with perfect,proper distribution of the bare necessities I'm not sure the earth can sustain a whole lot more.Climate change and inconsistent weather fronts would see to wiping out crop production and livestock availability

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 05, 2022, 09:51:29 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/24uyZiM.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 05, 2022, 09:52:23 AM

One of the most significant technology developments in history was the Haber process, in terms of fertilizer and explosives production, yet it gets scant publicity when such things are discussed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 05, 2022, 09:53:27 AM

What jet is that? A precurser to radar avoiding/concealing aircraft

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 05, 2022, 09:59:41 AM

It's the YB-49.  It was a very early flying wing design with some very advanced concepts never put into production.

The Northrop YB-49 was the jet-propelled variant of the company's XB-35 bomber. Eight Allison J35 engines, each delivering 3,750 pounds of thrust, gave the flying wing a top speed of 510 mph, or more than 100 mph faster than its prop-driven predecessor. Flight testing revealed stability problems which could not be corrected with existing technology. The second aircraft crashed on June 5, 1948, killing its five-man crew. Edwards AFB was subsequently named for one of its crew members, Capt. Glen W. Edwards. The YB-49 was the "wrong plane at the wrong time," getting trapped in the transition between propeller-driven and jet-powered aircraft. The program was canceled by the Air Force in 1949.

The Northrop Corp. proposed a modification to the YB-49 Flying Wing bomber , called the YRB-49A. Although its small radar signature had been noticed during tests during the late 1940s, it was the YB-49’s high altitude and long-range flying abilities that gave it consideration as a spy plane. The plane promised a 400-mph cruise speed at 35,000 feet. (It was during a 1948 test flight of the YB-49 that whom Edwards Air Force Base is named, was killed with his four crew Capt. Glen Edwards, for members.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 05, 2022, 10:01:11 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on May 05, 2022, 09:48:42 AM

If there is a collapse it's because obviously everyone won't be getting sustained.Even with perfect,proper distribution of the bare necessities I'm not sure the earth can sustain a whole lot more.Climate change and inconsistent weather fronts would see to wiping out crop production and livestock availability

the world will absolutely have a population collapse if it continues on this course- and that absolutely could lead to a civilizational collapse. the economy is primarily driven on the backs of the young- as is innovation. IF you continually have less and less young people and more and more old people- you're not going to grow, you're going to stagnate and basically not innovate at all. People are living too long and not having enough babies today. These are two of the biggest problems facing the survival of the human race (along with climate change) into the centuries and millennia beyond. In most developed countries- such as the US- women are not even having enough children to replace ourselves...ergo Americans are heading towards extinction and will need more and more constant immigration not to collapse as a country. Which is just another reason why we should be embracing immigration, not making it taboo or look down on immigrants.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 05, 2022, 10:02:49 AM

World population growth is expected to nearly stop by 2100 | Pew Research Center (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/06/17/worlds-population-is-projected-to-nearly-stop-growing-by-the-end-of-the-century/)

(https://i.imgur.com/4NMPNUz.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 05, 2022, 10:56:36 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 05, 2022, 10:01:11 AM

ergo Americans are heading towards extinction and will need more and more constant immigration not to collapse as a country. Which is just another reason why we should be embracing immigration, not making it taboo or look down on immigrants.

That's great as long as they are in the work force and not getting incredible tax breaks - some have manipulated this quite a bit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 05, 2022, 11:21:29 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 05, 2022, 10:01:11 AM

 Which is just another reason why we should be embracing immigration, not making it taboo or look down on immigrants.

I don't know of anyone that looks down on LEGAL immigration. It is the ILLEGAL immigration that is currently a problem and needs to be addressed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 05, 2022, 11:50:37 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on May 05, 2022, 10:56:36 AM

That's great as long as they are in the work force and not getting incredible tax breaks - some have manipulated this quite a bit

what does this even mean? that is a meaningless garbage talking point. your average immigrant that comes here is a law abiding person who works their asses off to the bone- immigrants tend to work much harder than your average fat f**king stupid lazy drugged up American. That one is not even close.

And if you think it's just black people and immigrants getting gov't handouts and welfare- well, think again my friend. There are countless millions and millions of poor white corn bread eating, mayonnaise and bolony sammich eating rural white trash in Oklahoma, Tennessee, Alabama, Arkansas, Mississippi, Ohio, Indiana, Texas, Missouri, Georgia, etc., etc. getting welfare from the US govt teet. The biggest chunk of welfare recipients in the US are non-Hispanic whites. Among the population that receives welfare, 43% are white. The other 57% are all the other ethnic groups- hispanics, blacks, asians, native americans, etc., etc., combined.

if you want to talk about incredible tax breaks seriously- then you need to be talking about the largest corporations in the US and the wealthiest US citizens. how many trillions of dollars are still sitting off-shore after decades by the US richest and most powerful corporations all in order so they can avoid paying tax? https://www.cfr.org/blog/trump-tax-reform-seen-us-balance-payments-data

US also needs put laws in place to clamp down on billionaires taking out ridiculous 0-1% interest loans from banks to fund their lifestyles all in order for them to avoid showing income and avoid paying tax- and also institute some sort of wealth tax- set up a sovereign wealth fund where shares of publicly traded stocks are transferred as a sort of tax- and then the US gov't can either hold these shares and borrow against them or sell them on the open market to generate tax revenue.

Blame immigrants though. :043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 05, 2022, 11:51:20 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 05, 2022, 11:21:29 AM

I don't know of anyone that looks down on LEGAL immigration. It is the ILLEGAL immigration that is currently a problem and needs to be addressed.

yeah, legal immigration is a mindf**k and a minefield. need to completely overhaul and make it WAY easier for people that want to move here be allowed to legally.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 05, 2022, 12:54:04 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 05, 2022, 11:51:20 AM

yeah, legal immigration is a mindf**k and a minefield. need to completely overhaul and make it WAY easier for people that want to move here be allowed to legally.

we need to do what the majority of the US citizens want

right now they dont want an open border

I think most Americans welcome legal immigration

Lock down the border and then review our legal immigration program

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 05, 2022, 01:01:09 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 05, 2022, 12:54:04 PM

we need to do what the majority of the US citizens want

right now they dont want an open border

I think most Americans welcome legal immigration

Lock down the border and then review our legal immigration program

I don't think anyone is cool with an open border. I do agree the border should be secure to the maximum possible. 

And then they should completely overhaul the legal immigration process and make it much easier, much more affordable, and much quicker. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 05, 2022, 01:04:29 PM

It's not THAT hard to immigrate legally, though I agree many of the steps and the process could be greatly streamlined.  Getting a Green Card is a chore and expensive.

Folks can have to leave the country at a certain point for six months and then return, for no real reason I can fathom (this isn't in every case).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 05, 2022, 01:05:42 PM

I used to wonder why they checked my passport in France when I was leaving the country.  They don't do that here obviously.  I can't stay in the Zone for over 6 months and they check that.  Had we decided to emigrate over there I would have applied for an EU passport.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 05, 2022, 01:06:43 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 05, 2022, 01:01:09 PM

I don't think anyone is cool with an open border. I do agree the border should be secure to the maximum possible.

And then they should completely overhaul the legal immigration process and make it much easier, much more affordable, and much quicker.

as long as its legal and the American voters agree with it no problem

My personal attitude is that we should encourage legal immigration to the extent that it benefits America

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 05, 2022, 01:26:47 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 05, 2022, 01:04:29 PM

It's not THAT hard to immigrate legally, though I agree many of the steps and the process could be greatly streamlined.  Getting a Green Card is a chore and expensive.

Folks can have to leave the country at a certain point for six months and then return, for no real reason I can fathom (this isn't in every case).

Uh yeah, it is pretty god d*mn hard, very time consuming, and very costly. Unless you're very rich- then it's easy and you can just buy your way in by "investing" and "creating jobs" with $900k. Which has been used and abused mostly by rich, corrupt, communist bastards from China looking to get permanent residency in the US.

I know people going through this right now- and COVID has F**KED it and made it even more difficult and lengthy. Like anything this worthless sh*tbag corrupt ineffective bloated bureaucratic federal government does- it's a complete f***king sh*t show freak show.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 05, 2022, 01:30:50 PM

My wife and step kids went through it, along with several folks I hired when I was working.  Of course for them it was fairly easy because the company took care of it.

It's not easy, it should be streamlined, but plenty of things are tougher, like making a photocopy when you live in the country.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 05, 2022, 02:50:59 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 05, 2022, 11:50:37 AM

what does this even mean? that is a meaningless garbage talking point. your average immigrant that comes here is a law abiding person who works their asses off to the bone- immigrants tend to work much harder than your average fat f**king stupid lazy drugged up American. That one is not even close.

You expect your bullshit to be taken at face value,yet carnival bark at things you know not of. We have middle eastern immigrants here that every 3-4 yrs turn over homes and businesses to family members to avoid certain taxes.As it's a 3 yr stimulus thing.They recieve food stamps and other government stimulation packages.Some yrs ago I went to the local school board and asked why most of the kids were on free food program or SNAP(Supplemental Nutrition Assistence Progam)that parents were and still are driving upscale vehicles and actually owned/operated convenience stores. How does that happen? Well the response was the car was a gift from a family member or some I told the school board that there is nothing wrong with being thrifty but felt they could sell the damn vehicle and buy their own freakin' sandwiches.They shrug their shoulders and say there is nothing they can do.I asked a friend whose wife worked in the county tax assesment office if this was true she said it certainly was but there are varying degrees of compliance.But these shits aren't even trying to hide it.Back about 15 yrs ago some of them were arrested and arraigned on food stamp fraud.

Well they bolted the country less than a week after posting bail to yemen and some other God foresaken Garden Spot. They work more angles than a mob lawyer.But there is a ray of light. A few yrs back some kids from the wrong side of the tracks understood the shady dealings - and while the hard working law abiders who work their asses off as you would have them were either running their stores or attending Mosque their homes were broken into  and the air ducts cut open.Guess what 80,000 dollars in cash went missing in one of the homes,hmmm. Figure it out - ya meaningless,try reading something to completion before ignorantly popping off

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 05, 2022, 02:56:30 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 05, 2022, 01:06:43 PM

as long as its legal and the American voters agree with it no problem

My personal attitude is that we should encourage legal immigration to the extent that it benefits America

That's just it voters don't agree to massive government hand outs.They don't take that to the voters. Those in office make decisions for their own gains and should be put in prison for things like voting themselves free health care. And opening the borders to insure they get more votes - it's criminal. You can then start with the corporate's but they are doing reach arounds with fists full of 50s so even the libs take their cut

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 05, 2022, 04:38:53 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 05, 2022, 12:54:04 PM

Lock down the border and then review our legal immigration program

I'll bet the Browns win the SB before this happens

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 05, 2022, 05:37:14 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 05, 2022, 04:38:53 PM

I'll bet the Browns win the SB before this happens

are they expected to win before 2024

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 05, 2022, 05:46:28 PM

20 states have now threatened to sue if DHS does not disband its disinformation board

https://newsdubai.org/20-republican-led-states-threaten-to-sue-dhs-and-call-for-dissolution-of-un-american-disinfot-board/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 05, 2022, 06:06:55 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 05, 2022, 05:37:14 PM

are they expected to win before 2024

MDot feels they could wind up being the top team in the AFC North and making a real playoff run in 2022 or 2023.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 05, 2022, 06:24:11 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 05, 2022, 06:06:55 PM

MDot feels they could wind up being the top team in the AFC North and making a real playoff run in 2022 or 2023.

depends on DeShaun Watson my dude. 

AFC North is open for the taking. Why not the Browns?

Kenny Pickett bust factor is high- not a believer in Kenny Pickett and the Steelers are going to have a tough time of it at QB without Big Ben.

Ravens will be a good team again, they always are- but they don't have any WR's and Lamar Jackson still struggles throwing the football consistently.

Bengals are the best team in the division on paper- and they have the best QB- but they have their issues. We'll see how the OL gels with the new additions- can't get any worse- that's for sure.

If DeShaun Watson doesn't get any suspension or gets like just 4 games and then he's free to play- Browns have a real shot in that division. Watson is a massive upgrade at the QB spot. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 05, 2022, 06:24:47 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 05, 2022, 05:46:28 PM

20 states have now threatened to sue if DHS does not disband its disinformation board

https://newsdubai.org/20-republican-led-states-threaten-to-sue-dhs-and-call-for-dissolution-of-un-american-disinfot-board/

the other 30 states are chicken shit cowards that should join the threat

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 05, 2022, 06:31:17 PM

give'em a minute

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 05, 2022, 06:31:33 PM

My read on this disinformation board is that it would be pointless, useless, and comedic, not something of any substance.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 05, 2022, 06:31:46 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 05, 2022, 06:24:11 PM

Kenny Pickett bust factor is high- 

Kenny has small hands

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 05, 2022, 06:34:48 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 05, 2022, 06:31:33 PM

My read on this disinformation board is that it would be pointless, useless, and comedic, not something of any substance.

just the idea of creating one is very unAmerican

This has Obama written all over it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 05, 2022, 06:46:38 PM

The idea may well be silly, I think it is, but I don't view it as worthy of angst.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 05, 2022, 06:48:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 05, 2022, 06:31:33 PM

My read on this disinformation board is that it would be pointless, useless, and comedic, not something of any substance.

they are putting this thing inside law enforcement purview as part the DHS - a bastardized, bloated, ineffective, incredibly wasteful federal security agency/bureaucracy that shouldn't even exist and was the brain fart of a retarded man and maybe the worst President we've ever had- Bushie Jr - so - strike one. The current head of the DHS is lying and being opaque about it when asked for details and being pressed on it publicly- it still remains a mystery what it'll actually do- so- strike two. The lady they appointed to head it is a complete WHACK job freakazoid Marry Poppins wannabe lunatic fringe extremist who has peddled massive amounts of disinformation herself - strike three.

Your read is really irrelevant and no one really cares - they cannot be allowed to do this and this very likely is illegal and violated the constitution. Many current politicians, former politicians, current states Attorneys General and former states Attorneys General say this likely violates the constitution.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 05, 2022, 06:52:56 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 05, 2022, 06:46:38 PM

The idea may well be silly, I think it is, but I don't view it as worthy of angst.

not me man I have a lot of angst concerning this

1st they try to call parents terrorists for complaining at school board meetings

and now the weaponize the DHS against free speech

you can shrug is off all you want but if we dont stop this now it will be open season on our constitution

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 05, 2022, 06:57:30 PM

Oh, hyperbole.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 05, 2022, 07:03:12 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 05, 2022, 06:57:30 PM

Oh, hyperbole.

ignorance is bliss, I guess. oh to be old and crusty. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 05, 2022, 07:07:48 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on May 05, 2022, 02:50:59 PM

You expect your bullshit to be taken at face value,yet carnival bark at things you know not of. We have middle eastern immigrants here that every 3-4 yrs turn over homes and businesses to family members to avoid certain taxes.As it's a 3 yr stimulus thing.They recieve food stamps and other government stimulation packages.Some yrs ago I went to the local school board and asked why most of the kids were on free food program or SNAP(Supplemental Nutrition Assistence Progam)that parents were and still are driving upscale vehicles and actually owned/operated convenience stores. How does that happen? Well the response was the car was a gift from a family member or some I told the school board that there is nothing wrong with being thrifty but felt they could sell the damn vehicle and buy their own freakin' sandwiches.They shrug their shoulders and say there is nothing they can do.I asked a friend whose wife worked in the county tax assesment office if this was true she said it certainly was but there are varying degrees of compliance.But these shits aren't even trying to hide it.Back about 15 yrs ago some of them were arrested and arraigned on food stamp fraud.

Well they bolted the country less than a week after posting bail to yemen and some other God foresaken Garden Spot. They work more angles than a mob lawyer.But there is a ray of light. A few yrs back some kids from the wrong side of the tracks understood the shady dealings - and while the hard working law abiders who work their asses off as you would have them were either running their stores or attending Mosque their homes were broken into  and the air ducts cut open.Guess what 80,000 dollars in cash went missing in one of the homes,hmmm. Figure it out - ya meaningless,try reading something to completion before ignorantly popping off

Sad to say, but only one spitting bullshit here is you my friend. You really going to take the one or two anecdotal cases from your own person life and apply that to the entire country? Even if what you are saying is true, that's a very small part of welfare programs- and every govt program has abuses and fraud. Every single one. Medicare for example is rife with that- and there's a bunch of fraud committed by doctors and medical supply companies- not immigrants. Pentagon and it's $638 toilet seats says what up.

The data is the data, the numbers are the numbers. Vast majority of people on welfare programs are not immigrants. It's mostly white people. 43%. That's the single largest group. Like I said- millions and millions of white trailer rural trash all over this great country getting welfare.

What you're talking about is a very minor thing. And if you were to talk about crazy tax breaks seriously- you'd be talking about the largest US multi-nationals and the billionaire class.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 05, 2022, 07:09:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 05, 2022, 06:57:30 PM

Oh, hyperbole.

for somebody that acts like a history expert you are not paying attention

that board was created for a reason and nobody seems able to really define juat what it is it will do

you know kinda like the Obamacare if you like your doctor keep your doctor crap

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 05, 2022, 07:14:06 PM

the US govt is the single largest disseminator of disinformation in the history of the world.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 05, 2022, 07:17:02 PM

One thing about life is it wears you down, erosion.  Things that once seemed critical to you you can look back and see as being nothings.  This board is a nothing, maybe some comedy at best.  They have no power, they at best would be yet another fact checker.  In a year no one will remember this was a thing.

So much that was startling "news" when it happened a year later is complete meh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 05, 2022, 07:27:49 PM

LA County declines felony charges for suspect in Dave Chappelle attack. Dude jumps on stage, tries to tackle Dave Chappelle and whips out a fake gun which ejects a hunting/combat knife and they have it all on video tape....and they decline to bring felony charges. WOW. California is a f***king joke. Stinking. Liberal. Shithole.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 05, 2022, 07:30:26 PM

was anyone seriously injured?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 05, 2022, 07:36:35 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 05, 2022, 07:30:26 PM

was anyone seriously injured?

that does not even matter. the only reason no one was injured thank god is because this p**sy gen z nail polish wearing tranny lover whiffed horribly on the tackle and it's obvious he's never tackled anyone in his life - and Chappelle was able to react quickly and turn his hips and kind of avoided the tackle- more like glancing blow- and his security was able to rush immediately to get ahold of the guy and beat the ever loving shit out of him. 

dude tried to attack Chapelle with a deadly weapon - that's a felony. Little bitch has a record too- he was arrested back in 2019 for battery but the charges were dropped. 

The deputy DA is already ripping the DA for this. “Anyone who arms themselves with a deadly weapon, in this case a knife, and violently attacks an innocent person, famous or not, should be charged accordingly,” Deputy District Attorney Jon Hatami said.

“With only a misdemeanor charge, the person could be released soon, with only a slap on the wrist. That fails to provide justice to the victim, accountability for this person’s actions and safety to the general public. These concepts, however, like public safety and justice, that most of us value, are concepts George Gascón can care less about.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 05, 2022, 07:41:15 PM

the only reason that would even come close to justifying not charging is if the man was mentally off but it would take much longer to determine that so I guess its open season

everyone find somebody you disagree with bring your knife and fake gun and go for it

oh and you need to make sure you do this in California

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 05, 2022, 08:12:43 PM

well, to me intent is one thing and actual serious injury is another

but, that's just my opinion

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 05, 2022, 08:33:11 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 05, 2022, 08:12:43 PM

well, to me intent is one thing and actual serious injury is another

but, that's just my opinion

thats fine but what was he charged with

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 05, 2022, 09:43:19 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 05, 2022, 07:07:48 PM

Sad to say, but only one spitting bullshit here is you my friend. You really going to take the one or two anecdotal cases from your own person life and apply that to the entire country? Even if what you are saying is true, that's a very small part of welfare programs- and every govt program has abuses and fraud. Every single one. Medicare for example is rife with that- and there's a bunch of fraud committed by doctors and medical supply companies- not immigrants. Pentagon and it's $638 toilet seats says what up.

The data is the data, the numbers are the numbers. Vast majority of people on welfare programs are not immigrants. It's mostly white people. 43%. That's the single largest group. Like I said- millions and millions of white trailer rural trash all over this great country getting welfare.

What you're talking about is a very minor thing. And if you were to talk about crazy tax breaks seriously- you'd be talking about the largest US multi-nationals and the billionaire class.

You slappy started popping off not addressing a damn thing I was talking about.How much you have to bet to lose?Do you think I'm fabricating this? These programs are meant to assist not to sustain. You immediately start yammering on about other examples of ripping off the tax payers Stay on point or break your prozac in half.Someone else jobbing the system doesn't make what I've seen with my own eyes BULLSHIT,FFS ? I was at a Walmart Superstore buying paint ,brake fluid,wipers in front of I me was a woman with two full carts swiping the the state SNAP CARD.And left in a late model Lexus Sedan,who ends up paying for that wise ass?To prove that was no fluke i had one more stop another lady picked up a few bags swapping the same card and left in a late model Land Cruiser.I reported the one incident as I got her license number and they have cameras in the lot.The guy in hardware said they won't do squat. How do people  receive Supplemental Nutritian Assistance benefits who happen to operate Convenience stores or One Stop Gas Shops?As you squawk and bloviate that I'm spitting bullshit.Bet Me or STFU,when these "hard working types" down the street are driving late model upscale vehicles,recieving tax credits and food assistance there is a weasel in the wood pile.Some peoples kids

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on May 06, 2022, 12:55:32 AM

just want to note here we have several classes of employees that if there is an assault/battery (check your local statutes for nomenclature) it is an automatic felony.   Facts and circumstances which are much less inflammatory than this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 06, 2022, 02:13:17 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 05, 2022, 07:17:02 PM

One thing about life is it wears you down, erosion.  Things that once seemed critical to you you can look back and see as being nothings.  This board is a nothing, maybe some comedy at best.  They have no power, they at best would be yet another fact checker.  In a year no one will remember this was a thing.

So much that was startling "news" when it happened a year later is complete meh.

Having set this board up under one of the strongest arms of government there is tells me they mean business

if they had set up a separate stand alone board then Id agree with you

do you have any idea just how much clout the DHS has

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 06, 2022, 05:04:00 AM

Biden's DHS failure exposes a government weak spot (msnbc.com) (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/biden-s-dhs-failure-exposes-government-weak-spot-n1295188)

This is from msnbc, so take it with a grain, but the "amusing" thing to me is how much "disinformation" is said to have been generated by this disinformation "board".

Now, it's possible this could morph into some "Ministry of Truth", but I personally don't see how that's possible.  I rather suspect in 3-4-5 months, most will have forgotten it exists and its impact on any of us will have been zilch.  My guess is they make some effort to combat disinformation in say Haiti, with limited to no effect.

So, the announcement that this thing exists likely has generated misinformation, in my view.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 06, 2022, 08:56:32 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 05, 2022, 08:33:11 PM

thats fine but what was he charged with

battery, possession of a weapon with intent to assault, unauthorized access to the stage area during a performance and commission of an act that delays the event or interferes with the performer.

I tried to look, is there any evidence this had anything to do with trans stuff? It reads more speculative from what I found. (It’s also weird to see that type of politics take over a lot of Chappelle’s brand)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 06, 2022, 09:08:32 AM

https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1521933605940903936?s=20&t=kZuC8O7TjfXJu1NYQF2NtQ

https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1522367326716190720?s=20&t=kZuC8O7TjfXJu1NYQF2NtQ

https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1522372634033414145?s=20&t=kZuC8O7TjfXJu1NYQF2NtQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 06, 2022, 09:09:21 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 05, 2022, 05:46:28 PM

20 states have now threatened to sue if DHS does not disband its disinformation board

https://newsdubai.org/20-republican-led-states-threaten-to-sue-dhs-and-call-for-dissolution-of-un-american-disinfot-board/

This feels like a sort of perfect marriage of 90s/early 2000s politics with our modern times.

Think there’s a problem, create a vague committee with no set goal and little ability to address said problem. Think you’ve given it a good name when to definitely have not.

Then the counter is saber ratting about some kind of phony baloney government-on-government lawsuit. It’s a bit of PR puffery for show, not worlds different than the dumb thing it opposes.

(I though the invocation of chilling effect on speech was quite a troll, and even somewhat admire it)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 06, 2022, 09:13:38 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 06, 2022, 09:09:21 AM

This feels like a sort of perfect marriage of 90s/early 2000s politics with our modern times.

Think there’s a problem, create a vague committee with no set goal and little ability to address said problem. Think you’ve given it a good name when to definitely have not.

Then the counter is saber ratting about some kind of phony baloney government-on-government lawsuit. It’s a bit of PR puffery for show, not worlds different than the dumb thing it opposes.

(I though the invocation of chilling effect on speech was quite a troll, and even somewhat admire it)

yeah, no. 

the fact that they set up a "disinformation governance board" and housed it inside the DHS - a god awful, bloated, wasteful, habitual law-breaking federal law enforcement/security agency run by a corrupt vile on a power trip unelected bureaucracy that has trampled all over civil rights - tells you all you need to know about their intentions. Translation: their intentions are not good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 06, 2022, 09:28:36 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 06, 2022, 05:04:00 AM

Biden's DHS failure exposes a government weak spot (msnbc.com) (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/biden-s-dhs-failure-exposes-government-weak-spot-n1295188)

This is from msnbc, so take it with a grain, but the "amusing" thing to me is how much "disinformation" is said to have been generated by this disinformation "board".

Now, it's possible this could morph into some "Ministry of Truth", but I personally don't see how that's possible.  I rather suspect in 3-4-5 months, most will have forgotten it exists and its impact on any of us will have been zilch.  My guess is they make some effort to combat disinformation in say Haiti, with limited to no effect.

So, the announcement that this thing exists likely has generated misinformation, in my view.

yes you have said over and over this is no big thing

yes you have said over and over this will never fly dont worry

and yet the Biden admin continues to say misinformation is a threat to the US and we must fight it

when they stand down then we will be able to feel better

so far there is no standing down so the right will continue to be concerned about just where this board will be used

Remember this board was created right after Musk bought twitter so what does that say about its intended use

as the midterms get closer and political debate rages we shall see just how harmless this board is 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 06, 2022, 09:29:43 AM

CNN and the New York Times let the head of the Department of Homeland Security lie about the institution’s established record of spying on US citizens, echoing his false claims.

These top media outlets amplified this falsehood as part of an attempt to defend the US government’s de facto Ministry of Truth, the new “Disinformation Governance Board” that the Department of Homeland (DHS) has created in order to censor supposed “disinformation” that it deems a threat to US national security.

DHS, which was created after the September 11, 2001 attacks to oversee the so-called War on Terror, is notorious for its brutal and authoritarian tactics.

The fact that DHS has surveilled American journalists, protesters, and even critical politicians is well documented. This is an undeniable matter of public record.

But CNN and the New York Times allowed the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, Alejandro Mayorkas, to lie about this objective fact, and did not push back in any way.


CNN host Dana Bash sat down with Mayorkas on May 1, in an interview titled “Bash presses Mayorkas about ‘1984’ comparisons to disinformation board.”

The CNN segment amounted to a defense of DHS’ Disinformation Governance Board, which Mayorkas minimized as a “small working group within the Department of Homeland Security,” supposedly with limited power.

“Will American citizens be monitored?” Bash asked, in regard to this disinformation board.

“No,” Mayorkas said firmly.

“Guarantee that?” Bash responded.

“We in the Department of Homeland Security don’t monitor American citizens,” he insisted.

This statement is blatantly false. DHS’ monitoring of American citizens is very well documented, by dozens of mainstream media outlets and civil liberties organizations.

But instead of pushing back against this clear lie, the CNN host echoed the DHS secretary’s totally false claim.

“You don’t,” Bash replied in agreement. “But will this board change that?” she added.

“No, no, no,” Mayorkas repeated.

This is all completely, categorically false.

The Intercept obtained documents through a Freedom of Information Act request showing how DHS has spied on activists protesting police brutality in the Black Lives Matter movement since at least 2014.

NBC obtained DHS documents in 2019 that showed that “the U.S. government created a secret database of activists, journalists, and social media influencers tied to the migrant caravan and in some cases, placed alerts on their passports.”

In 2020, the New York Times itself reported that the “Department of Homeland Security deployed helicopters, airplanes and drones over 15 cities where demonstrators gathered to protest the death of George Floyd.”


That same year, the Washington Post revealed that the “Department of Homeland Security has compiled ‘intelligence reports’ about the work of American journalists covering protests.”

This led Oregon lawmakers to publicly demand “answers from the Department of Homeland Security, following new reports that the department spied on Portland protesters’ phones.”

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has exhaustively documented the department’s spying on Americans, noting five branches of DHS have intelligence missions.

The ACLU even sued the department for spying on journalists and violating their civil liberties.


Some current and former DHS officials have tried to put the blame for these authoritarian policies solely on Donald Trump, but the reality is this surveillance started long before Trump entered office in 2017 and has continued since he left in 2021.

Yahoo News obtained documents in 2022 showing that the “controversial unit of Customs and Border Protection that trawled through the travel and financial records of journalists and lawmakers is still monitoring Americans.”

Customs and Border Protection (CBP) is a branch of the Department of Homeland Security.


Instead of acknowledging any of these facts, CNN and its host Dana Bash simply echoed the lies of the DHS secretary.

And CNN was not the only major media outlet that spread this US government disinformation.



The New York Times amplified the same lies from Department of Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas.

The newspaper-of-recored published an article on May 2 titled “Partisan Fight Breaks Out Over New Disinformation Board,” which was really a long-winded defense of Washington’s de facto Ministry of Truth.

The Times quoted Mayorkas’ claim, “We in the Department of Homeland Security don’t monitor American citizens.”

The top media outlet did not push back against this US government disinformation, or point out that its own reporting had shown this claim to be false.


The Times article was co-written by Steven Lee Myers and Zolan Kanno-Youngs.

Kanno-Youngs had in fact authored the June 2020 New York Times article revealing that the Department of Homeland Security deployed helicopters, airplanes, and drones to spy on Black Lives Matter protesters in 15 cities.

Yet less than two years after acknowledging this fact, Kanno-Youngs and his colleagues at the Times had returned to carrying water for DHS and amplifying its false claims.

The Times reprinted the comments Mayorkas’ made on CNN insisting that the Disinformation Governance Board is needed to counter supposed “disinformation from Russia, China, Iran.”

Mayorkas said the board will censor “disinformation that creates a threat to the security of the homeland.”

Both the CNN and New York Times reports gave the false impression that only conservative Republicans are opposed to the Disinformation Governance Board. In fact many journalists and activists on the left are deeply opposed to this de facto Ministry of Truth.

But these top media outlets deceptively portrayed the controversy as simply another battle in a US liberal-conservative culture war.

There was deep irony in the New York Times publishing blatant US government disinformation in an article warning about the “threat” of disinformation supposedly spread by Russia, China, and Iran.

In his interview on CNN, Mayorkas claimed, “The board does not have any operational authority or capability. What it will do is gather together best practices in addressing the threat of disinformation from foreign state adversaries, from the cartels, and disseminate those best practices to the operators that have been executing in addressing this threat for years.”

This appeared to be the DHS director’s roundabout way of saying that the board will pressure social media platforms and Big Tech corporations to censor what it calls “disinformation.”

DHS can thus claim that it is not directly censoring people, that it is instead private companies censoring them, while failing to mention that they are doing so under US government pressure.

Mayorkas also referred to the director of the Disinformation Governance Board, Nina Jankowicz, as “eminently qualified, a renowned expert in the field of disinformation.”

In reality, Jankowicz is an avowed cold warrior who smears independent anti-war US media outlets as supposed “Russian disinfo,” and has called WikiLeaks “scum.”


Multipolarista documented how Jankowicz got her start professionally running regime-change operations targeting Russia for CIA front the National Democratic Institute (NDI), a branch of the US government’s infamous National Endowment for Democracy (NED).

In its report defending the DHS disinformation board, the New York Times euphemistically claimed the NDI and NED “promote democratic governance abroad.”

In reality, these US government bodies exist to fund opposition groups and destabilize foreign countries targeted by Washington for regime change. The NED’s own co-founder admitted that the organization is a CIA cutout.

In 2016, Jankowicz described herself as “someone who has made a career in democracy assistance.” She later rebranded as a “disinformation expert” after the election of Donald Trump.

Jankowicz has gone out of her way to target independent American journalists who criticize US foreign policy, trying to link them to Russia to justify censoring them.

DHS Secretary Mayorkas, for his part, concluded his interview with CNN emphasizing that the Joe Biden administration has continued the Trump administration’s aggressive crackdown on immigration.

“Our border is not open,” he stressed.

When asked what his message was to migrants and refugees, Mayorkas emphasized, “Do not come.”


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just putting this "ministry of truth" inside the little ole' innocent DHS. What could go wrong? LMAO.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 06, 2022, 09:43:08 AM

very well said Mdot21

sometimes I think you go a little overboard on stuff but not in this case

youre spot on

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 06, 2022, 09:46:16 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 05, 2022, 11:50:37 AM

what does this even mean? that is a meaningless garbage talking point. your average immigrant that comes here is a law abiding person who works their asses off to the bone- immigrants tend to work much harder than your average fat f**king stupid lazy drugged up American. That one is not even close.

And if you think it's just black people and immigrants getting gov't handouts and welfare- well, think again my friend. There are countless millions and millions of poor white corn bread eating, mayonnaise and bolony sammich eating rural white trash in Oklahoma, Tennessee, Alabama, Arkansas, Mississippi, Ohio, Indiana, Texas, Missouri, Georgia, etc., etc. getting welfare from the US govt teet. The biggest chunk of welfare recipients in the US are non-Hispanic whites. Among the population that receives welfare, 43% are white. The other 57% are all the other ethnic groups- hispanics, blacks, asians, native americans, etc., etc., combined.

if you want to talk about incredible tax breaks seriously- then you need to be talking about the largest corporations in the US and the wealthiest US citizens. how many trillions of dollars are still sitting off-shore after decades by the US richest and most powerful corporations all in order so they can avoid paying tax? https://www.cfr.org/blog/trump-tax-reform-seen-us-balance-payments-data

US also needs put laws in place to clamp down on billionaires taking out ridiculous 0-1% interest loans from banks to fund their lifestyles all in order for them to avoid showing income and avoid paying tax- and also institute some sort of wealth tax- set up a sovereign wealth fund where shares of publicly traded stocks are transferred as a sort of tax- and then the US gov't can either hold these shares and borrow against them or sell them on the open market to generate tax revenue.

Blame immigrants though. :043:

Not a huge fan of this conversation, but I want to add context.

The US population is 56 percent white/not Hispanic. This also means that 44 percent of the population is consuming 57 percent of the resources.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 06, 2022, 10:52:23 AM

Outdoor reno is complete, save for a waterfall pool feature. Good to not have people coming over every damn day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 06, 2022, 10:55:23 AM

waterfall pool feature???

just what everyone needs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 06, 2022, 10:55:30 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 06, 2022, 09:13:38 AM

yeah, no.

the fact that they set up a "disinformation governance board" and housed it inside the DHS - a god awful, bloated, wasteful, habitual law-breaking federal law enforcement/security agency run by a corrupt vile on a power trip unelected bureaucracy that has trampled all over civil rights - tells you all you need to know about their intentions. Translation: their intentions are not good.

Hmmm, sure. Because the stupid and pointless committee is housed within something that is generally quite bad, it must mean that this this is well thought out and going to be effective at … something I guess.

DHS also probably employs a very large janitorial staff. I bet that is the most badly intentioned janitorial staff I will find

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 06, 2022, 11:00:27 AM

Monitoring garbage is a thing.

Just ask this guy.

(https://i.imgur.com/87dk7Tn.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 06, 2022, 11:00:40 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 06, 2022, 10:55:23 AM

waterfall pool feature???

just what everyone needs

Yes sir.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 06, 2022, 11:03:44 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 06, 2022, 11:00:27 AM

Monitoring garbage is a thing.

Just ask this guy.

(https://i.imgur.com/87dk7Tn.png)

John:
Carl? How does one become a janitor?

Carl:
You wanna be a janitor?

John:
No, I just want to know how one becomes a janitor. Because, you see, Andrew here is very interested in pursuing a career in the custodial arts.

Carl:
Oh, really? You guys think I'm just some untouchable peasant? Serf? Peon? Well, maybe so. But following a broom around after shitheads like you for the last eight years, I've learned a couple of things. I look through your letters. I look through your lockers. I listen to your conversations: you don't know that but I do. I am the eyes and ears of this institution, my friends. [pause] By the way, that clock's 20 minutes fast.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 06, 2022, 11:10:06 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 06, 2022, 11:00:27 AM

Monitoring garbage is a thing.

Just ask this guy.

(https://i.imgur.com/87dk7Tn.png)

Underrated movie

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 06, 2022, 11:13:09 AM

Hard to believe it's been almost 40 years!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 06, 2022, 11:24:22 AM

never watched it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 06, 2022, 11:30:59 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 06, 2022, 11:00:40 AM

Yes sir.

I love mine!! Way to go Badge!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 06, 2022, 11:36:04 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 06, 2022, 11:13:09 AM

Hard to believe it's been almost 40 years!

Just don’t celebrate by taping Larry Lester’s buns together 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 06, 2022, 11:47:43 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/6eVfmM4.png)

Norfolk Naval Base, Virginia. Warships at the Base piers, circa August 1944. Among them are: Missouri (BB-63), the largest ship; Alaska (CB-1), on the other side of the pier; Croatan (CVE-25), and destroyers of the Fletcher and "Four-Pipe, Flush-Deck" classes at the next pier.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 06, 2022, 11:59:50 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 06, 2022, 10:55:30 AM

Hmmm, sure. Because the stupid and pointless committee is housed within something that is generally quite bad, it must mean that this this is well thought out and going to be effective at … something I guess.

DHS also probably employs a very large janitorial staff. I bet that is the most badly intentioned janitorial staff I will find

this is the same logic spewed out by MSNBC

according to the White House this committee is for protecting the US from misinformation

you are saying this is just a bad PR stunt and really has no merit

why should Americans believe that when so many times in the past few months Biden has weaponized the justice systems to violate civil rights 

ask parents who were labeled terrorists if we should believe there is nothing to fear here

disband this board then we can talk

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 06, 2022, 12:07:51 PM

I don't see what they can do in the real world of any consequence.  If you think they can somehow censor social media, well, OK, that would be bad, but I don't think they will even try, or could if they did.  And yes, I could be wrong, but I'd think if they had a nefarious intent, they'd keep this under wraps.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 06, 2022, 12:18:33 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 06, 2022, 12:07:51 PM

I don't see what they can do in the real world of any consequence.  If you think they can somehow censor social media, well, OK, that would be bad, but I don't think they will even try, or could if they did.  And yes, I could be wrong, but I'd think if they had a nefarious intent, they'd keep this under wraps.

The Biden admin is directing leading social media networks on censorship 

there is a current lawsuit concerning this

Yesterday Biden stated that that MAGA is the most extreme group in American history

He is setting the stage for what this board was created to do

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 06, 2022, 12:28:12 PM

In a win for net neturality, ISPs agreed to end their legal challenge to a 2018 Californa law that bars providers from throttling service. Telecom groups and California Attorney General Rob Bonta today jointly agreed to dismiss the case, reported Reuters.

It’s fair that say that luck hasn’t exactly been on the telecom industry’s side. Earlier this year, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals refused to reconsider its ruling that California’s law be upheld. And last year, the US DOJ dropped its own lawsuit over the net neutrality law, which the agency had filed during the Trump administration.

“Following multiple defeats in court, internet service providers have finally abandoned an effort to block enforcement of CA's net neutrality law. This is a win for California and for a free and fair internet,” wrote Bonta in a tweet.

After Trump-appointed FCC Commissioner Ajit Pai overturned the agency's net neutrality rules in 2017, California’s legislature decided to enact its own law. The state’s net neutrality law, which went into effect in August 2018, expanded on previous federal rules by banning the use of “zero-rating” by ISPs in an anti-competitive manner. Zero-rating occurs when an ISP exempts any of its affiliated services from eating away at a customer’s data caps. For example, AT&T Wireless once exempted HBO Max from the data caps of its internet customers. The company dropped this practice last year, and blamed the impact of California’s law. Digital rights groups like Electronic Frontier Foundation have argued that zero-rating is hostile to consumers, especially those from low-income households.

Federal net neutrality rules that were blocked under the Trump administration have yet to be restored by the FCC under President Joe Biden. That’s because the five-member panel is currently short one member, which they’ll need in order to vote on net neutrality. The agency is awaiting the Senate confirmation of Gigi Sohn. But thanks to intense lobbying from telecom groups and a number of Republicans (and moderate Democrats) in Congress, Sohn’s confirmation is stalled at present.


https://www.engadget.com/is-ps-end-fight-against-california-net-neutrality-laws-000336621.html (https://www.engadget.com/is-ps-end-fight-against-california-net-neutrality-laws-000336621.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 06, 2022, 12:30:08 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 06, 2022, 12:18:33 PM

He is setting the stage for what this board was created to do

This Board? As in CFB51?  :cool2:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 06, 2022, 12:32:33 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on May 06, 2022, 12:30:08 PM

This Board? As in CFB51?  :cool2:

oh no now youve done it

expect a vist from the men in black

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 06, 2022, 12:35:11 PM

I double dog dare them,they are in line for a good couple of dutch rubs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 06, 2022, 01:03:26 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 06, 2022, 12:32:33 PM

oh no now youve done it

expect a vist from the men in black

Don't look at the books of waste companies in NJ, and don't look at Drew's books here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 06, 2022, 01:19:39 PM

Our downstairs HVAC stopped two days ago.  It's two years old.  I flipped the safety switch and pull the panels and check the drip pan, it all seems fine.  The one upstairs stopped working because the drip pan clogged up and got full.  I clean out the lines as best I can and start it up again, and nothing, the thermostat was also now completely dead.  I check the breakers, no issue there.  So, I have to call my service guy who comes the next day and starts checking this and that with his multimeter.  The long and short, ha, is that the safety switch had gone bad, a $15 part, it looks like a light switch but handles 220v.

He checks everything and pronounces it fine and gets another switch and installs it and now it's all cool.  I think this is the fourth visit I've had not counting the ones where he replaced the entire unit two years ago.  He tells me he should have replaced the switch at that time but didn't think about it.

Owning a condo is a lot less work than a house obviously, but stuff still breaks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 06, 2022, 01:45:45 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 06, 2022, 11:59:50 AM

you are saying this is just a bad PR stunt and really has no merit

why should Americans believe that when so many times in the past few months Biden has weaponized the justice systems to violate civil rights

To the first sentence, yes, yes I am. "Misinformation" is somewhat undefinable. They might poke some social media networks to do some stuff, which those networks can't do competently on a good day. They'll push some dumb counter programming. And if it doesn't simply disappear in 2.5 years, it'll be telling us everything on MSNBC is misinfo before we know it. 

To the second, I've been somewhat busy of late, outside that letter, what are the many instances of justice system weaponization? Want to make sure I'm understanding that correctly. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 06, 2022, 01:57:31 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 06, 2022, 01:45:45 PM

To the first sentence, yes, yes I am. "Misinformation" is somewhat undefinable. They might poke some social media networks to do some stuff, which those networks can't do competently on a good day. They'll push some dumb counter programming. And if it doesn't simply disappear in 2.5 years, it'll be telling us everything on MSNBC is misinfo before we know it.

To the second, I've been somewhat busy of late, outside that letter, what are the many instances of justice system weaponization? Want to make sure I'm understanding that correctly.

there have been several cases of spying on American citizens including news media

the way those arrested for the Jan 6th protest have been treated is a travesty 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 06, 2022, 03:12:32 PM

FORE!!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 06, 2022, 10:39:43 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/s2eZF5g.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on May 06, 2022, 10:58:56 PM

Interesting Derby race despite little buzz.  No Baffert though he's slipped two horses here w other trainers.  I'm intrigued by the Japanese horse Crown Pride,  seems like a secret how good Japanese horse racing is, though mostly because it's closed to foreign horses.    Looks like another wet derby too.  Zandon, Crown Pride exacta, maybe Smile Happy and take them all across the board.  I haven't bet on a sport since UGA in CFP.     I am kicking myself for missing placing my annual 'under' bet on the Reds for the year.  That's been a ritual of mine. Damn vacation took me outside betting state lines.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 07, 2022, 12:09:00 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 06, 2022, 10:55:30 AM

Hmmm, sure. Because the stupid and pointless committee is housed within something that is generally quite bad, it must mean that this this is well thought out and going to be effective at … something I guess.

DHS also probably employs a very large janitorial staff. I bet that is the most badly intentioned janitorial staff I will find

this might be the single dumbest post I've ever read on this board. congrats.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 07, 2022, 12:09:49 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 06, 2022, 11:59:50 AM

this is the same logic spewed out by MSNBC

according to the White House this committee is for protecting the US from misinformation

you are saying this is just a bad PR stunt and really has no merit

why should Americans believe that when so many times in the past few months Biden has weaponized the justice systems to violate civil rights

ask parents who were labeled terrorists if we should believe there is nothing to fear here

disband this board then we can talk

he's a vote blue no matter who BlueAnon shitlib/libtard, do you really expect anything less from him?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2022, 06:15:35 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on May 06, 2022, 10:39:43 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/s2eZF5g.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/WPH1pWv.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2022, 06:20:18 AM

One of my friends used to live at this corner. We hung out a lot in this area. Used to be really safe.

Man shot 3 times while struggling with robber who took his phone in North Side ambush (fox32chicago.com) (https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/video-shows-man-shot-3-times-during-chicago-robbery)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 07, 2022, 07:08:16 AM

Yeah, it seemed to me back in the day Chicago was pretty safe north of downtown and downtown mostly.

It's the same in ATL, north is a lot safer than south.  The Buckhead folks have been getting alarmed at recent crime up that way too to the point of wanting to secede (which has been delayed if they do it at all).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2022, 07:11:34 AM

The Chicago folks who can are generally leaving. Illinois probably loses another house seat, or two, in the next go-round.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 07, 2022, 07:35:30 AM

Where's Pelosi and that other Puke Litehouse who defund Police departments? Oh that's right they live in gated communities with their own security

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 07, 2022, 07:57:28 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2022, 07:11:34 AM

The Chicago folks who can are generally leaving. Illinois probably loses another house seat, or two, in the next go-round.

there's a sliver lining

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 07, 2022, 08:06:32 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 07, 2022, 12:09:00 AM

this might be the single dumbest post I've ever read on this board. congrats.

You really should read the board more. There are a bunch about how UGA-Michigan should have been a pick'em. I promise you, mild commentary about how democrats are incompetent is far from the bottom someone has set.

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 07, 2022, 12:09:49 AM

he's a vote blue no matter who BlueAnon shitlib/libtard, do you really expect anything less from him?

Son, you live in a place with actual Democrats. You could get off the internet and look outside. I'm sorry I don't engage in the partisan party line humping you're so into (or just sort of rambling divisive extremism). Hope there's an ointment to help with that chafing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2022, 10:16:23 AM

Got some friends coming in today from Up North. Gonna be a lot of fun. Doing some food prep now.

Bouillabaisse tonight, and yellow edge grouper tomorrow night.

Stock for the soup is simmering now. It will have lobster, scallops and shrimp in it. Gonna serve it with my wife's homemade garlic bread.

The grouper will be with a piccata sauce, mashed potatoes and roasted broccolini. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 07, 2022, 10:47:33 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2022, 10:16:23 AM

Got some friends coming in today from Up North. Gonna be a lot of fun. Doing some food prep now.

Bouillabaisse tonight, and yellow edge grouper tomorrow night.

Stock for the soup is simmering now. It will have lobster, scallops and shrimp in it. Gonna serve it with my wife's homemade garlic bread.

The grouper will be with a piccata sauce, mashed potatoes and roasted broccolini.

/looks as map
 
I'm north of you, so I'll be over in say a couple hours. Or will I miss the boat?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2022, 11:55:11 AM

Boat ride is tomorrow. Too rough today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 07, 2022, 04:05:59 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/Ic7o0ir.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 07, 2022, 07:05:51 PM

Rich Strike wins the Run for the Roses 80-1,Going for 30 Gs last September   :-[

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 07, 2022, 07:35:11 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on May 07, 2022, 07:05:51 PM

Rich Strike wins the Run for the Roses 80-1,Going for 30 Gs last September

That was so cool and insane!  That horse was eyeing up the 2 favorites and then just blew by them.     

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 07, 2022, 07:53:23 PM

Great job by the the Jockey slid by on the rail then cut in and shot the gap.That horse was definately gaining steam.Think he had a couple of 3rd place finishes for the most part finished out of the money mostly

(https://i.imgur.com/UCr0VSS.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 07, 2022, 08:11:51 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on May 07, 2022, 07:53:23 PM

Great job by the the Jockey slid by on the rail then cut in and shot the gap.That horse was definately gaining steam.Think he had a couple of 3rd place finishes for the most part finished out of the money mostly

(https://i.imgur.com/UCr0VSS.png)

But think of the quality of that glue

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 08, 2022, 08:59:57 AM

Happy Birthing Persons Day! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 08, 2022, 09:51:45 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 07, 2022, 08:06:32 AM

You really should read the board more. There are a bunch about how UGA-Michigan should have been a pick'em. I promise you, mild commentary about how democrats are incompetent is far from the bottom someone has set. Son, you live in a place with actual Democrats. You could get off the internet and look outside. I'm sorry I don't engage in the partisan party line humping you're so into (or just sort of rambling divisive extremism). Hope there's an ointment to help with that chafing.

Nah. That was still the single dumbest thing ever written on this board. Congrats.

There is no partisan party line here. Except for maybe you.

It's OK. I get it. "Bay Area" in the handle says it all. Northern California (really the entire state) is an entire swamps nest of BlueAnon, vote blue no matter who, social justice culture warrior tranny loving shitlib freaks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 08, 2022, 09:56:18 AM

California has a lot of areas that look a lot like rural Texas, and vote similarly.

To characterize all of the state as being very liberal is an over generalization.

It also has some areas of incredible scenic beauty.  Twenty Nine Palms is not in that group.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 08, 2022, 09:58:46 AM

Senate Democrats voted it for it as well....these parties are essentially the same...the bickering is all theatre and optics...performative bullsh*t....kinda like the WWE. And as if that f**king cum stain Jeff Bezos needs a $10 billion gift from the federal gov't :043:

The real reason why he moved Amazon HQ 2 to DC was so he could influence the federal gov't even more than Amazon already does.

edit: it was actually 90 senators voting in favor...not 70. 

https://twitter.com/AriRabinHavt/status/1522197891011555336?s=20&t=XY752wv6-Q3FUszG5VGIGQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 08, 2022, 10:00:36 AM

"A nonbinding measure" .... meh.

Maybe this relates to the R&D Tax Credit, I don't know obviously.  I don't get very interested in non-binding measures.  They may as well rename some Post Office.

Bill offered by Young, Portman supports new R&D investments - Ripon Advance (https://riponadvance.com/stories/bill-offered-by-young-portman-supports-new-rd-investments/)

Yeah, and expanded R&D tax credit.  Meh.

S. 749 would allow companies and startups investing in R&D to either claim a tax credit or deduct their investments, according to a bill summary provided by the senators, and would double and then further raise the cap over time for the refundable R&D tax credit for small businesses and startups.

S. 749 also would reverse a change in the 2017 tax law to ensure that companies could continue to fully deduct R&D investments each year, the summary says.

“Reversing the change to allow full expensing instead of amortizing R&D expenses over five years will help ensure the U.S. remains the world leader in technological advancement,” Sen. Portman said. “This legislation also expands the R&D credit for small businesses and start-ups, which are often the drivers of new breakthroughs and ideas. This credit comes at a crucial time while our economy is rebuilding from COVID-19.”

The bill, which received endorsements from the National Association of Manufacturers and the R&D Coalition, has been referred for consideration to the U.S. Senate Finance Committee. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 08, 2022, 10:07:01 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 08, 2022, 10:00:36 AM

"A nonbinding measure" .... meh.

Maybe this relates to the R&D Tax Credit, I don't know obviously.  I don't get very interested in non-binding measures.  They may as well rename some Post Office.

yes, it's related to the R&D Tax Credit. And don't worry, it will be restored in due time. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 08, 2022, 10:09:17 AM

So, instead of deducting over five years this would make it deductible immediately.  I don't view this as some major change.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 08, 2022, 10:15:34 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 08, 2022, 08:59:57 AM

Happy Birthing Persons Day!

are we Coneheads now?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 08, 2022, 10:28:38 AM

If I'm that labor union leader I'm telling Biden to go f**k himself and not letting him use me for a photo op.

BTW the contract the Biden admin just awarded that f**k stick cum stain Jeff Bezos and Amazon- who this labor leader Christian Smalls is fighting against- was for $10 billion- and it's a contract with the NSA. LOL.

Silicon Valley/Big Tech is a literal cesspool that has basically been in partnership with the federal gov't and it's security apparatus and have literally handed NSA/CIA backdoors into their entire systems. Google, Facebook, and Twitter started censoring the internet for them the last few years- hence why the federal govt and it's establishment news media which does nothing but run interference, propagandize an astoundingly stupid American population, and manufacture consent for them- is freaking out about Musk buying Twitter and potentially uncorking the censorship regime there that has taken hold.

https://twitter.com/davidsirota/status/1522327958366556160?s=20&t=xQFSRZ3XX15fX1Z6ktkVMQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 08, 2022, 02:57:36 PM

BTW, Happy Day all you Mothers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 08, 2022, 03:09:35 PM

What It Felt Like: I Took the F-16 Fighter To Nearly Mach 2.0 - 19FortyFive (https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/05/what-it-felt-like-i-took-the-f-16-fighter-to-nearly-mach-2-0/?fbclid=IwAR1thq5VI0WK3RtkDZ8awfUC3MqO_v94kdCNOZFMq_RUC3pjkjMPKygl3c8)

As I maintained my altitude, the jet started to accelerate. At 1.4 Mach, with only about 2 minutes of fuel left, I bunted over and started a dive to help with the acceleration. In my heads-up-display, 1.5 Mach ticked by, backed up by an old Mach indicator slowly spinning in my instrument console.
At 1.6 Mach, the jet started to shake. I was expecting it—the F-16 has a flight region around that airspeed that causes the wings to flutter. Still, this jet had a lot of hours on the airframe, and if anything were to fail, the breakup would be catastrophic. Similarly, ejecting at that speed would be well outside the design envelop—the air resistance at Mach 1.6 is about 300 times what a car experiences at highway speeds. A few pilots have tried, only to break nearly every bone in their body.
So now, the option was to slow down until the vibration stopped, or push through until it smoothed out on the other side. I was running low on fuel, so I elected to increase my dive so I could accelerate faster. Slowly 1.7 Mach ticked by, next 1.8, and then at 1.9, everything smoothed out. I was now traveling 1,500 mph over the Yellow Sea. The cockpit started feeling warm so I took my hand off the throttle and put it about a foot away from the canopy and could feel the heat radiating through my glove, similar to sticking your hand in an oven.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 08, 2022, 03:13:12 PM

The air speed indicator in a plane has a red line called "Never Exceed Speed", for some reason unclear to me.  Before that is a yellow region.  I forget what it is in a Cessna 172, something like 160 knots I think.  You can't reach that in level flight.  The indicator stops at 40 knots on the other end, it is possible to fly below 40, but at full power oddly enough, you cant the attitude up and basically hang on the propeller.  Needless to say your flight controls are mushy at such a low speed, and it's pretty easy to find yourself in a stall situation (which is easily recoverable).

It's not that hard to get a private license, it is some effort and expense of course, but I do marvel at these fellows who fly F-16s in combat situations with so much going on.

P.S. I looked it up, NE speed is 182 kt in a 172.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 10, 2022, 07:42:40 PM

NBA legend Magic Johnson left up to an estimated $5.2 billion on the table when he turned Nike down for a $100,000 cash deal to endorse Converse. Magic was fresh out of college and looking for a pay day, and Nike didn't have cash to offer him, but they were offering him stock.

https://twitter.com/SportsTaxMan/status/1518675479695405058?s=20&t=iOiMRgVVuAt7Vo96yHOXNg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 10, 2022, 07:48:19 PM

Chicago mayor Lori Lightfoot is now calling for violence against SCOTUS

Why doesnt this surprise me

What a great American

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 10, 2022, 07:49:26 PM

this is pretty nuts...Tom Brady signs a 10-year, $375 million deal with Fox Sports to go to the booth and call games and be their lead NFL analyst as soon as he's done playing. Deal averages $37.5 million a year for Brady- which is $4 million more than the $33.5 million ESPN is paying Joe Buck ($15.5 mm) and Troy Aikman ($18 mm) COMBINED- whom ESPN just stole from Fox Sports. 

Brady's NFL career earnings were $308 million, and this deal is for $375 million. That's only $683 million.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 10, 2022, 08:00:30 PM

Yeah, but his wife is getting old.....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 10, 2022, 08:59:37 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 10, 2022, 08:00:30 PM

Yeah, but his wife is getting old.....

isn't she worth like $400 or $500 million from her modeling career and the women's apparel/makeup companies she owns? 

I think she's got more money than him. They each got a shitload of money.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 11, 2022, 08:47:11 AM

Gisele has always made more money than Tom has.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 12, 2022, 07:08:59 PM

I wanted to toss an idea out there about the Roe v Wade reversal. 
I get that the sky isn't actually falling for the Dems, and that it's 'merely' resorting the legality of abortion to be state-by-state.  Red states making it illegal, blue ones keeping it legal.  Great.  Fine.  Whatever.
.
My idea is to ask:  why stop there?  Why not go down to the county level?
.
If it's simply going to wind up a proximity law by state, given the nature of the situation, why not give those that are going to get abortions some closer options than 1-2-3 states over?  If you're rural and your local area votes to not allow them, what do you care if the others have to drive 2 hours instead of 5 or 8 or 12? 
.
Shouldn't be all the same to you?  Tell me how this is harmful or a bad idea.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 12, 2022, 07:46:04 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 12, 2022, 07:08:59 PM

.
.
My idea is to ask:  why stop there? Why not go down to the county level?
.

That would be up to the state

Im not sure why a state would want to do that but I think its in their power to do so if they want it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 12, 2022, 07:48:38 PM

Here is how counties voted in the last Presidential election


(https://i.imgur.com/lxoP0fZ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 12, 2022, 09:51:46 PM

The reason for a state to do that would be allowing the people to legislate it in their areas.  ANYONE who props up "let the states decide for themselves" has to acknowledge that letting each county decide for themselves is the same idea, just better. 
.
If not, then you're just being politically blind.
.
It means more people are pleased with the outcome.  Isn't that what it's all about?  Take Texas - the state goes no abortions, angering majorities in the blue counties.  But if each county decides, there are no angry majorities.  Doing it state-by-state is like painting with a roller, but leaving it up to each county, you're painting with a brush.
.
This is an honest-to-goodness middle-line, moderate idea I'm putting out there.  I really don't see any problem with it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 13, 2022, 12:23:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 12, 2022, 09:51:46 PM

The reason for a state to do that would be allowing the people to legislate it in their areas.  ANYONE who props up "let the states decide for themselves" has to acknowledge that letting each county decide for themselves is the same idea, just better. 
.
If not, then you're just being politically blind.
.
It means more people are pleased with the outcome.  Isn't that what it's all about?  Take Texas - the state goes no abortions, angering majorities in the blue counties.  But if each county decides, there are no angry majorities.  Doing it state-by-state is like painting with a roller, but leaving it up to each county, you're painting with a brush.
.
This is an honest-to-goodness middle-line, moderate idea I'm putting out there.  I really don't see any problem with it. 

That would be up to the legislature of each state. The Fed Gov't nor the Supreme Court can mandate that any state would have to do such a thing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 13, 2022, 01:17:24 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 12, 2022, 09:51:46 PM

The reason for a state to do that would be allowing the people to legislate it in their areas.  ANYONE who props up "let the states decide for themselves" has to acknowledge that letting each county decide for themselves is the same idea, just better. 
.
If not, then you're just being politically blind.
.
It means more people are pleased with the outcome.  Isn't that what it's all about?  Take Texas - the state goes no abortions, angering majorities in the blue counties.  But if each county decides, there are no angry majorities.  Doing it state-by-state is like painting with a roller, but leaving it up to each county, you're painting with a brush.
.
This is an honest-to-goodness middle-line, moderate idea I'm putting out there.  I really don't see any problem with it. 

as my county map shows the dems would only hurt themselves if it went by county vote

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 13, 2022, 01:18:02 PM

Erdogan says Turkey will block Sweden and Finland from joining NATO- which requires unanimous consent from current members to add new members. THANK GOD that there is an adult in the room. Even if that adult happens to be an ahole dictator thug like Erdogan. Sweden and Finland really are very much worthless to NATO anyway. Turkey on the other hand is of great strategic and geographical importance for obvious reasons. US will be PISSED obviously as NATO expansion is an openly stated imperial goal of the worlds lone imperial superpower,  but not sure there's much they can or will do about it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 13, 2022, 01:22:18 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 13, 2022, 01:18:02 PM

Erdogan says Turkey will block Sweden and Finland from joining NATO- which requires unanimous consent from current members to add new members. THANK GOD that there is an adult in the room. Even if that adult happens to be an ahole dictator thug like Erdogan. Sweden and Finland really are very much worthless to NATO anyway. Turkey on the other hand is of great strategic and geographical importance for obvious reasons. US will be PISSED obviously as NATO expansion is an openly stated imperial goal of the worlds lone imperial superpower,  but not sure there's much they can or will do about it.

Interesting

Did Turkey say why they will block

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 13, 2022, 01:27:06 PM

Maybe this is the beginning of the end of NATO.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 13, 2022, 01:29:45 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 13, 2022, 01:22:18 PM

Interesting

Did Turkey say why they will block

he's blaming Scandinavian countries for being harborers of "terrorist organizations" - the SDF and YPG. 

He's also not stupid. He knows Sweden and Finland joining NATO would probably just make this thing spill over. He doesn't want Turkey fighting a hot World War III with Russia- a country he shares a border with.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 13, 2022, 01:33:55 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 13, 2022, 01:27:06 PM

Maybe this is the beginning of the end of NATO.

can't come fast enough as far as I'm concerned.

I'd LOVE to see the US war machine that spends about $1 trillion a year on "defense" (when you take into account everything) get a hatchet taken to it and cut dramatically back by at least 75%. US would still be far and away leader in the entire world on defense spending if that were to happen and they shrunk it down to a "measly" $250 billion a year.

There is literally no reason to spend as much as we do on "defense" other than out and out corruption and imperialism. None. This country is $31 TRILLION in debt, runs deficits until the end of god damn time, lost it's entire manufacturing capability (which is what made it great), has crumbling infrastructure, doesn't even have baby food for half the f***king babies in this country like we're a 3rd world shithole- and more than 30 million American still don't have health care- yet they want to invent money and pull it out of their asses $40 billion here- $100 billion here- at a time- for war. F***K. THAT. SH*T.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2022, 02:42:23 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 13, 2022, 12:23:26 PM

That would be up to the legislature of each state. The Fed Gov't nor the Supreme Court can mandate that any state would have to do such a thing.

I'm not suggesting anything be mandated, I'm saying it's a better idea.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2022, 02:45:24 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 13, 2022, 01:17:24 PM

as my county map shows the dems would only hurt themselves if it went by county vote

It's not about a political party hurting itself.  If I live in Arizona and want an abortion, wouldn't I prefer to go to a nearby county to get it done rather than a whole other state?
If I live in the middle of Nebraska, wouldn't I rather drive to Omaha to get it rather than all the way to Denver?
.
It's about more people getting their way.  
Your county-by-county presidential voting map is a more accurate portrayal of reality than a state-by-state map, no?  Same idea.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 13, 2022, 02:46:55 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2022, 02:42:23 PM

I'm not suggesting anything be mandated, I'm saying it's a better idea.

It may be a better idea but I don't see it happening. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2022, 02:50:44 PM

There often is a chance for a country in this situation to gain advantage by appearing to not support a thing, they want quid pro quo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 13, 2022, 02:51:35 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2022, 02:45:24 PM

It's not about a political party hurting itself.  If I live in Arizona and want an abortion, wouldn't I prefer to go to a nearby county to get it done rather than a whole other state?
If I live in the middle of Nebraska, wouldn't I rather drive to Omaha to get it rather than all the way to Denver?
.
It's about more people getting their way. 
Your county-by-county presidential voting map is a more accurate portrayal of reality than a state-by-state map, no?  Same idea.

I understand but my point is the pro choice folks would never want this cause it would shrink the area they would have if voted on by the whole state

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 13, 2022, 04:38:45 PM

I have a novel concept.

If you're not married, don't want a kid, but want to have sex?

Use PROTECTION.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 13, 2022, 05:50:55 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 13, 2022, 04:38:45 PM

I have a novel concept.

If you're not married, don't want a kid, but want to have sex?

Use PROTECTION.

Lmao for real. Or develop a strong pull out game. 

On a serious note, they should be handing out IUD’s to every woman of age who wants them and doing the procedure free of charge. They work freaking WONDERS.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2022, 06:39:44 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 13, 2022, 04:38:45 PM

I have a novel concept.

If you're not married, don't want a kid, but want to have sex?

Use PROTECTION.

Next, let's just tell murderers to not do that.  And speeders to slow down.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2022, 06:40:43 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 13, 2022, 02:51:35 PM

I understand but my point is the pro choice folks would never want this cause it would shrink the area they would have if voted on by the whole state

Yeah, except the pro-choice folks are smart enough to know that there's far more people in the blue counties and thus, would help far more people........:57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2022, 06:42:48 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 13, 2022, 01:33:55 PM

can't come fast enough as far as I'm concerned.

I'd LOVE to see the US war machine that spends about $1 trillion a year on "defense" (when you take into account everything) get a hatchet taken to it and cut dramatically back by at least 75%. US would still be far and away leader in the entire world on defense spending if that were to happen and they shrunk it down to a "measly" $250 billion a year.

There is literally no reason to spend as much as we do on "defense" other than out and out corruption and imperialism. None. This country is $31 TRILLION in debt, runs deficits until the end of god damn time, lost it's entire manufacturing capability (which is what made it great), has crumbling infrastructure, doesn't even have baby food for half the f***king babies in this country like we're a 3rd world shithole- and more than 30 million American still don't have health care- yet they want to invent money and pull it out of their asses $40 billion here- $100 billion here- at a time- for war. F***K. THAT. SH*T.

Yes, our country is broken.  No, it's not the best in the world.  But one party doesn't let you say these things.  And to be fair, the other party helped make it true.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2022, 06:57:02 PM

Whichever country is the "best in the world" would depend on one's personal preferences.  

I'd love to review our security commitments and resize the military after that.  It's not going to happen of course,  meanwhile our financial ability to manage the drain on our monies is going to be more dangerous than any foreign adversary.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 13, 2022, 07:09:30 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2022, 06:40:43 PM

Yeah, except the pro-choice folks are smart enough to know that there's far more people in the blue counties and thus, would help far more people........:57:

But if you have it decided at the state level the blue states get the whole state for pro choice

Theres no way a state like California for example would want to see any counties where its pro life only

it would drive them crazy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2022, 07:16:47 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 13, 2022, 07:09:30 PM

But if you have it decided at the state level the blue states get the whole state for pro choice

Theres no way a state like California for example would want to see any counties where its pro life only

it would drive them crazy

You're speaking on the behalf of all Californians now?

The people who would be upset would have about 95% of the population in pro-choice CA counties and understand that in other states, those in pro-choice counties that otherwise wouldn't be far FAR outpopulate the red CA counties' numbers. 

I'm worried that you think everyone thinks like you. But some of us see in 3 dimensions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 13, 2022, 07:27:59 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2022, 07:16:47 PM

You're speaking on the behalf of all Californians now?

The people who would be upset would have about 95% of the population in pro-choice CA counties and understand that in other states, those in pro-choice counties that otherwise wouldn't be far FAR outpopulate the red CA counties' numbers. 

I'm worried that you think everyone thinks like you. But some of us see in 3 dimensions.

why the personal attack

thats unnecessary 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: highVOLtage on May 13, 2022, 08:58:34 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 12, 2022, 09:51:46 PM

The reason for a state to do that would be allowing the people to legislate it in their areas.  ANYONE who props up "let the states decide for themselves" has to acknowledge that letting each county decide for themselves is the same idea, just better. 
.
If not, then you're just being politically blind.
.
It means more people are pleased with the outcome.  Isn't that what it's all about?  Take Texas - the state goes no abortions, angering majorities in the blue counties.  But if each county decides, there are no angry majorities.  Doing it state-by-state is like painting with a roller, but leaving it up to each county, you're painting with a brush.
.
This is an honest-to-goodness middle-line, moderate idea I'm putting out there.  I really don't see any problem with it.

Except counties cannot supercede state laws and become their own mini-states.  There are undoubtedly many red counties within blue states that wish they could carve out their own laws on a number of issues where their views diverge from the state at-large, from education to taxes to marriage to environmental regulations to abortion to gun control to whatever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 13, 2022, 09:08:28 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 13, 2022, 07:09:30 PM

But if you have it decided at the state level the blue states get the whole state for pro choice

Theres no way a state like California for example would want to see any counties where its pro life only

it would drive them crazy

As a sort of Californian, fine with it. 

(going county by county sort of goes against the value in having a law at all on the subject, and thus makes the exercise somewhat pointless)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2022, 10:05:09 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 13, 2022, 09:08:28 PM

As a sort of Californian, fine with it.

(going county by county sort of goes against the value in having a law at all on the subject, and thus makes the exercise somewhat pointless)

So the value of the law state-by-state is.....solely to make those seeking an abortion to drive further?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2022, 10:06:06 PM

Quote from: highVOLtage on May 13, 2022, 08:58:34 PM

Except counties cannot supercede state laws and become their own mini-states.  There are undoubtedly many red counties within blue states that wish they could carve out their own laws on a number of issues where their views diverge from the state at-large, from education to taxes to marriage to environmental regulations to abortion to gun control to whatever.

Sigh.
Yes, we know.
I'm saying that for this issue, states agree to relent to counties.  

Jesus, guys.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: highVOLtage on May 13, 2022, 11:46:31 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2022, 10:05:09 PM

So the value of the law state-by-state is.....solely to make those seeking an abortion to drive further?

If people have to drive to other states for abortions, Democrats might actually do something about gas prices.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 14, 2022, 12:57:42 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2022, 10:05:09 PM

So the value of the law state-by-state is.....solely to make those seeking an abortion to drive further? 

Yes. 

If you're passing such a law, you're doing it to make the thing harder to do. State by state accomplishes that. (There's also the weird brand of laws that punish people for going out of state to do so, which is a tangential convo)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 14, 2022, 07:08:35 AM

Quote from: highVOLtage on May 13, 2022, 11:46:31 PM

If people have to drive to other states for abortions, Democrats might actually do something about gas prices.

This is a new level of brilliant. :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 14, 2022, 07:14:39 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 14, 2022, 12:57:42 AM

Yes.

If you're passing such a law, you're doing it to make the thing harder to do. State by state accomplishes that. (There's also the weird brand of laws that punish people for going out of state to do so, which is a tangential convo)

Wow. 

So it's not actually about the ethics of the thing, it's just a petty "fuck you" to those who want to do something their state doesn't want them to do.  

This is getting stupid now.
.
I offer a fair, middle-ground idea and it's met with "you can't do that" (we could, it would just be a unique situation) and pissy party-line crap.  Your heads are so far up your own asses that you shit on any idea that isn't radically political.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 14, 2022, 07:22:05 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 13, 2022, 04:38:45 PM

I have a novel concept.

If you're not married, don't want a kid, but want to have sex?

Use PROTECTION.

I'll give you one guess for the #1 reason protection isn't used.
Here's a hint:  a decades-long crusade against condom use, worldwide (even in AIDS-ridden countries!)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 14, 2022, 07:56:35 AM

I didn't know anyone had mounted a crusade against condom use, I guess they weren't very effective at getting the word out.

Or, perhaps more likely, I'm not in tune with such things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 14, 2022, 08:10:13 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2022, 06:39:44 PM

Next, let's just tell murderers to not do that.  And speeders to slow down. 

Murderers = people having sex?

OK then.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 14, 2022, 08:13:26 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 14, 2022, 07:56:35 AM

I didn't know anyone had mounted a crusade against condom use, I guess they weren't very effective at getting the word out.

Or, perhaps more likely, I'm not in tune with such things.

There are certain religions that frown on birth control, but it didn't matter much. When my kids were in HS they could obtain free rubbers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 14, 2022, 08:15:36 AM

Was Fro talking about getting an abortion in the first person? :D


Just because you "identify" as some obscure gender that nobody outside of the Caucasian Democrat community has ever even heard of, that doesn't give you magical birthing powers. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 14, 2022, 08:47:28 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 14, 2022, 08:10:13 AM

Murderers = people having sex?

OK then.

He gets online and picks fights to have someone to talk to.Don't think it registers when he has issues with 3 different posters in two pages it could be him. Shame he lives out where the buses don't run perhaps he could get the help he needs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 14, 2022, 09:46:54 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 14, 2022, 08:10:13 AM

Murderers = people having sex?

OK then.

Law-breakers are law-breakers, no?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 14, 2022, 09:47:54 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 14, 2022, 08:15:36 AM

Was Fro talking about getting an abortion in the first person? :D


Just because you "identify" as some obscure gender that nobody outside of the Caucasian Democrat community has ever even heard of, that doesn't give you magical birthing powers.

The caricature of me you keep arguing with would be some sort of obscene nutjob.......but you've conjured it from your own mind.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 14, 2022, 10:02:28 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 14, 2022, 07:14:39 AM

Wow.

So it's not actually about the ethics of the thing, it's just a petty "fuck you" to those who want to do something their state doesn't want them to do. 

This is getting stupid now.
.
I offer a fair, middle-ground idea and it's met with "you can't do that" (we could, it would just be a unique situation) and pissy party-line crap.  Your heads are so far up your own asses that you shit on any idea that isn't radically political.

Listen man, you asked why someone prefers it to the particular way. I answered the question. I am not advocating for one outcome over the other.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 14, 2022, 10:10:00 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 14, 2022, 09:46:54 AM

Law-breakers are law-breakers, no?

Having sex is against the law?

Not in this great country, it isn't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 14, 2022, 10:17:50 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 14, 2022, 09:46:54 AM

Law-breakers are law-breakers, no?

No, there are in every state different levels of law breaking obviously.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 14, 2022, 10:32:23 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 14, 2022, 09:47:54 AM

The caricature of me you keep arguing with would be some sort of obscene nutjob.......but you've conjured it from your own mind. 

Earlier you posted


.

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2022, 02:45:24 PM

It's not about a political party hurting itself.  If I live in Arizona and want an abortion, wouldn't I prefer to go to a nearby county to get it done rather than a whole other state?
If I live in the middle of Nebraska, wouldn't I rather drive to Omaha to get it rather than all the way to Denver?
.

So was it the "collective" I? :D

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 14, 2022, 10:44:36 AM

A male can desire an abortion obviously, just for his partner.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 14, 2022, 10:49:36 AM

Abortion pills: How medication abortion works and what the end of Roe could mean : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2022/05/13/1098000879/abortion-pills-medication-abortion-roe-v-wade)

Medication abortions now account for more than half of all U.S. abortions. The option to take pills (rather than undergo a procedure in a clinic) has become an increasingly common choice for those seeking abortions since mifepristone was approved by the Food and Drug Administration in 2000.

In the states where abortion is expected to be banned if Roe is overturned, medication abortion will become illegal. But access to abortion pills will still be available for those who are able to travel to states with abortion protections.
Some may attempt to acquire the medications from out-of-state providers through the mail. A growing number of states have moved to make this approach illegal, but experts say that in practice, it's difficult to police.
Others may decide to order the medications from overseas pharmacies, though this carries the risk of getting products that are not FDA approved and patients not getting the appropriate care before and after taking the medication.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 14, 2022, 11:03:58 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 14, 2022, 10:44:36 AM

A male can desire an abortion obviously, just for his partner.

I would imagine that his "partner" is in the same boat as himself. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 14, 2022, 11:14:52 AM

Not always of course.  The partner of a woman who got her pregnant could be disinterested or simply gone.  At any rate, I think in context it's OK to say, as a male, I desire an abortion, if one thinks it's needed, legal, safe, and moral.

I'm not in that situation fortunately.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on May 14, 2022, 11:28:35 AM

Somehow missed this fitting branding:

https://twitter.com/JimMWeber/status/1474385953267589128

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 14, 2022, 12:53:17 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 14, 2022, 11:14:52 AM

Not always of course.  The partner of a woman who got her pregnant could be disinterested or simply gone.  At any rate, I think in context it's OK to say, as a male, I desire an abortion, if one thinks it's needed, legal, safe, and moral.

I'm not in that situation fortunately.

I don't believe that "partner" is the preferred nomenclature for a heterosexual coupling.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 14, 2022, 01:06:21 PM

OK, whatever, I'm sure different folks use different terms.

I'm interested in how all this would impact RU486 usage.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 14, 2022, 02:36:55 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 14, 2022, 10:32:23 AM

Earlier you posted


.


So was it the "collective" I? :D

People use "I" instead of the term "one," because when a person uses "one," it's often confusing.  I, of course, knew who would be reading my posts and know how confused you can get from perfectly plain posts already.
.
Now you've leapt to trying to use homosexuality as an insult, and I'm sure you have your whole life.  Good for you.  
If I can go the rest of my life being the exact opposite of you, then I've have lived a good life.
Also, if one does the same, he or she would have lived a similarly good life.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 14, 2022, 08:59:37 PM

So our younger son, loves baseball, but his favorite thing is dance. And there's a kid on the bus that bullies him about it. This kid's dad isn't charge of the football program, unfortunately he married a cheerleader, and this kid got all of his mom's genes.  He is a second grader, who is shorter than our kindergartner, but our kindergartner is intimidated by the two year age gap.  Our older son, who is also in second grade, is arguably the most athletic kid in that grade. He plays travel baseball, and the other kid did not make the team. But for in-house they play each other. There was another bullying incident today, but our older son plays him this week in in-house. I told him to go in spikes high.  They are rubber, they aren't going to hurt anyone. I just want him to send a message. My wife found out and is now pissed off. I do not think I am out of line here. Thoughts?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 14, 2022, 09:02:09 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 14, 2022, 09:46:54 AM

Law-breakers are law-breakers, no?

Well that's just a silly thing to say. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 14, 2022, 09:03:26 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 14, 2022, 09:02:09 PM

Well that's just a silly thing to say.

He must work for the Astros

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 14, 2022, 09:11:39 PM

iI told him to go in spikes high.  They are rubber, they aren't going to hurt anyone. I just want him to send a message. My wife found out and is now pissed off. I do not think I am out of line here. Thoughts?

I'm old school, I like it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 14, 2022, 09:13:30 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 14, 2022, 12:53:17 PM

I don't believe that "partner" is the preferred nomenclature for a heterosexual coupling.

I have a few friends who ended up using that. It sometimes comes into play for people who are less interested in marriage (children of really bad divorces, most often), but in long-term enough relationships that they do most of the married things. 

Of course, the majority of people I know who used that eventually just decided to get married. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 14, 2022, 09:22:56 PM

Quote from: ELA on May 14, 2022, 08:59:37 PM

So our younger son, loves baseball, but his favorite thing is dance. And there's a kid on the bus that bullies him about it. This kid's dad isn't charge of the football program, unfortunately he married a cheerleader, and this kid got all of his mom's genes.  He is a second grader, who is shorter than our kindergartner, but our kindergartner is intimidated by the two year age gap.  Our older son, who is also in second grade, is arguably the most athletic kid in that grade. He plays travel baseball, and the other kid did not make the team. But for in-house they play each other. There was another bullying incident today, but our older son plays him this week in in-house. I told him to go in spikes high.  They are rubber, they aren't going to hurt anyone. I just want him to send a message. My wife found out and is now pissed off. I do not think I am out of line here. Thoughts?

Hmmmm. This feels like a place where tacit support and clandestine planning seems right. However, telling one's kid to ... I guess try to "hurt" another kid, that leaves me somewhat queasy. 

I don't know that you're out of line, but anyone giving you hell for it is not likely out of line either, if that makes any sense. (Like if your kid was being a jerk, and you found out that the other kids dad put the kid's brother up to kicking him, you'd probably not be super enthused with that dad)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 14, 2022, 09:32:00 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 14, 2022, 09:11:39 PM

iI told him to go in spikes high.  They are rubber, they aren't going to hurt anyone. I just want him to send a message. My wife found out and is now pissed off. I do not think I am out of line here. Thoughts?

I'm old school, I like it

Agreed.  Let the players settle it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 14, 2022, 09:35:15 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 14, 2022, 09:22:56 PM

Hmmmm. This feels like a place where tacit support and clandestine planning seems right. However, telling one's kid to ... I guess try to "hurt" another kid, that leaves me somewhat queasy.

I don't know that you're out of line, but anyone giving you hell for it is not likely out of line either, if that makes any sense. (Like if your kid was being a jerk, and you found out that the other kids dad put the kid's brother up to kicking him, you'd probably not be super enthused with that dad)

I don't love it either.  And if he was bullying our son who is actually his age, I'd say to just beat him on the field.  But he's an 8 year old bullying our 5 year old.  Our 8 year old has proven everything legitimately, and the 5 year old days the bullying only happens on days our 8 year old has orthodontist appointments and can't stand up for him.  So I kind of feel like if this kid takes a rubber clear to the shin, shit happens.  I'd prefer that to telling our 8 year old to actually physically defending his brother on the bus

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 14, 2022, 09:35:53 PM

peer pressure

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 15, 2022, 06:09:20 AM

Quote from: ELA on May 14, 2022, 08:59:37 PM

So our younger son, loves baseball, but his favorite thing is dance. And there's a kid on the bus that bullies him about it. This kid's dad isn't charge of the football program, unfortunately he married a cheerleader, and this kid got all of his mom's genes.  He is a second grader, who is shorter than our kindergartner, but our kindergartner is intimidated by the two year age gap.  Our older son, who is also in second grade, is arguably the most athletic kid in that grade. He plays travel baseball, and the other kid did not make the team. But for in-house they play each other. There was another bullying incident today, but our older son plays him this week in in-house. I told him to go in spikes high.  They are rubber, they aren't going to hurt anyone. I just want him to send a message. My wife found out and is now pissed off. I do not think I am out of line here. Thoughts?

I'm all for it, but your youngest is gonna have to stand up to the kid too at some point.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 15, 2022, 07:02:01 AM

Ya it's called growing up most kids get it sorted,sometimes it's parents over playing their hand

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 15, 2022, 08:08:30 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 14, 2022, 02:36:55 PM

People use "I" instead of the term "one," because when a person uses "one," it's often confusing.  I, of course, knew who would be reading my posts and know how confused you can get from perfectly plain posts already.
.
Now you've leapt to trying to use homosexuality as an insult, and I'm sure you have your whole life.  Good for you. 
If I can go the rest of my life being the exact opposite of you, then I've have lived a good life.
Also, if one does the same, he or she would have lived a similarly good life.

Lol. You've had multiple posts removed for calling people gay. 

What planet are you on. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 15, 2022, 08:10:02 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 14, 2022, 09:13:30 PM

I have a few friends who ended up using that. It sometimes comes into play for people who are less interested in marriage (children of really bad divorces, most often), but in long-term enough relationships that they do most of the married things.

Of course, the majority of people I know who used that eventually just decided to get married.

Do these "friends" just so happen to also be from the "Bay Area"? :D

I rest my case. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 15, 2022, 08:40:30 AM

Listed nearby in Bonita Springs.

(https://i.imgur.com/oRNFHDp.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 15, 2022, 08:44:03 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 15, 2022, 08:08:30 AM

Lol. You've had multiple posts removed for calling people gay.

What planet are you on.

Huh?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 15, 2022, 08:47:46 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 14, 2022, 10:17:50 AM

No, there are in every state different levels of law breaking obviously.

Again, the Team Echo Chamber crew here totally whiffed on my post.
847 suggested people simply wear protection to avoid this whole issue.  Like a shrug and just, you know, don't dump your load in the chick.  As if that's any kind of realistic fix.
My post suggested we simply tell murderers to, you know, just not kill people.  Shrug and just tell them that, as if not killing people has never occurred to them.
.
It had nothing to do with different crimes having different severities.  FFS

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 15, 2022, 08:50:06 AM

Murder is treated differently in the legal system, it's not the same as having unprotected sex.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 15, 2022, 09:50:01 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 15, 2022, 08:10:02 AM

Do these "friends" just so happen to also be from the "Bay Area"? :D

I rest my case.

A few. Some from elsewhere.

Edit: Also worth noting, "Partner" has dipped in use in the gay community as well. They have the option of wife/husband nowadays. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 15, 2022, 10:20:38 AM

I wonder if this new problem of a shortage in baby formula has anything with overturning the abortion law

Im a firm believer in there being no such thing as a coincidence

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 15, 2022, 10:27:34 AM

Probably has more to do with the recall.

Abbott Powder Formula Recall: Frequently Asked Questions | Abbott U.S. (https://www.abbott.com/consumer/abbott-powder-formula-recall.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 15, 2022, 11:07:29 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 15, 2022, 09:50:01 AM

A few. Some from elsewhere.

Edit: Also worth noting, "Partner" has dipped in use in the gay community as well. They have the option of wife/husband nowadays.

Oh, if they are from the Bay Area than they believe in 138 genders, so any deviation from the most rigid Islamic gender roles imaginable makes them each something other than male or female. So they aren't a hetero couple at all, just a couple of gender non-binary people engaged in a lgbt marriage of some sort. So "partner" would indeed be the preferred nomenclature in their circumstance. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 15, 2022, 11:23:44 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 15, 2022, 10:20:38 AM

I wonder if this new problem of a shortage in baby formula has anything with overturning the abortion law

Im a firm believer in there being no such thing as a coincidence

no

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 15, 2022, 11:24:00 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 15, 2022, 08:40:30 AM

Listed nearby in Bonita Springs.

(https://i.imgur.com/oRNFHDp.jpg)

what model is that? that seems overpriced.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 15, 2022, 11:24:57 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 15, 2022, 11:07:29 AM

Oh, if they are from the Bay Area than they believe in 138 genders, so any deviation from the most rigid Islamic gender roles imaginable makes them each something other than male or female. So they aren't a hetero couple at all, just a couple of gender non-binary people engaged in a lgbt marriage of some sort. So "partner" would indeed be the preferred nomenclature in their circumstance.

https://youtu.be/5H2YoGjbdsk?t=1860

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 15, 2022, 11:30:36 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 15, 2022, 08:50:06 AM

Murder is treated differently in the legal system, it's not the same as having unprotected sex.

I don't believe you're this obtuse.
Despite the endless number of posts suggesting so. 
.
It's as if you don't read my posts, just see that I posted and retort the same initial point, over and over.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 15, 2022, 01:23:17 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 15, 2022, 08:47:46 AM

Again, the Team Echo Chamber crew here totally whiffed on my post.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b1/f2/97/b1f297b5079d7743744027abd8d3f838.gif)   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 15, 2022, 07:46:23 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 15, 2022, 11:07:29 AM

Oh, if they are from the Bay Area than they believe in 138 genders, so any deviation from the most rigid Islamic gender roles imaginable makes them each something other than male or female. So they aren't a hetero couple at all, just a couple of gender non-binary people engaged in a lgbt marriage of some sort. So "partner" would indeed be the preferred nomenclature in their circumstance.

Such performative unpleasantness. Sigh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 15, 2022, 08:05:01 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279939395_5365612023460316_7278340387596179891_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-6&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=7cUYc__aGbAAX9NjX_a&tn=_MnT8OkIfzNoswba&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9t-at8P7lt6bCdJQhjMIlsaj50D8OfSKeySzvxezXtmw&oe=62874AF1)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 15, 2022, 09:38:39 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 15, 2022, 07:46:23 PM

Such performative unpleasantness. Sigh.

What part of the SF dogma did I get incorrect? Y'all are preaching that garbage from the mountain tops. All I did was bring it to its logical conclusion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 15, 2022, 10:03:36 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 15, 2022, 09:38:39 PM

What part of the SF dogma did I get incorrect? Y'all are preaching that garbage from the mountain tops. All I did was bring it to its logical conclusion.

I didn't preach jack s%* about any of that. So that would be incorrect. 

(And I don't really know much about it. The only person I actually know who dabbles in that is a Midwesterner)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 15, 2022, 10:28:30 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 15, 2022, 10:03:36 PM

I didn't preach jack s%* about any of that. So that would be incorrect.

(And I don't really know much about it. The only person I actually know who dabbles in that is a Midwesterner)

If you believe that there are over 138 genders and codify such things into law, then you can't possibly be male or female if you deviate even ever so slightly from the most rigid gender roles imaginable. Does your wife work outside of the house? Well then congratulations, you are not a man, and she is not a woman. You both lie somewhere on the gigantic spectrum in between. Then on top of that you have feminism practically codified into law there as well, so it isn't even possible to adhere to the most rigid gender roles imaginable, even if you wanted to, because they'd lock you up and throw away the key. So nearly every marriage in California is an LGBT union between a pair of transgender individuals, insofar as the State itself is concerned. 

There absolutely isn't any wiggle room.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 15, 2022, 10:37:28 PM

California is not alone in their gender activities

https://www.yahoo.com/now/wisconsin-middle-schoolers-accused-sexual-142628716.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 15, 2022, 10:43:49 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 15, 2022, 10:28:30 PM

If you believe that there are over 138 genders and codify such things into law, then you can't possibly be male or female if you deviate even ever so slightly from the most rigid gender roles imaginable. Does your wife work outside of the house? Well then congratulations, you are not a man, and she is not a woman. You both lie somewhere on the gigantic spectrum in between. Then on top of that you have feminism practically codified into law there as well, so it isn't even possible to adhere to the most rigid gender roles imaginable, even if you wanted to, because they'd lock you up and throw away the key. So nearly every marriage in California is an LGBT union between a pair of transgender individuals, insofar as the State itself is concerned.

There absolutely isn't any wiggle room.

Sounds like you've spent a lot more time pondering alternative genders than I have. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 15, 2022, 11:54:47 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 15, 2022, 10:43:49 PM

Sounds like you've spent a lot more time pondering alternative genders than I have.

Yeah, I actually use this thing that I have that's called a brain in order to analyze the dogma that is spewed forth by our "leaders" instead of just blindly following it without question so that I can pretend that I am somehow a small part of the ruling class... this... this really isn't making any sense to you at all, is it?

Oh, never mind. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 16, 2022, 07:35:01 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 15, 2022, 08:05:01 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279939395_5365612023460316_7278340387596179891_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-6&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=7cUYc__aGbAAX9NjX_a&tn=_MnT8OkIfzNoswba&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9t-at8P7lt6bCdJQhjMIlsaj50D8OfSKeySzvxezXtmw&oe=62874AF1)

Schmidt's they had a couple of Breweries here, my uncle had a Tavern down the street for like a decade. They made a Classic that was really good and their draft was alright also. Unfortunately the breweries in Philly and C-Town closed in the late '80s :03:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 16, 2022, 11:08:50 AM

horrific scene in Buffalo this weekend as an 18-year old nut job decides to drive there from where he lived 3 hours away and shoot up a grocery store with an AR in a black neighborhood, killing 10 people and injuring 3. 11 of his victims were black and 2 were white.

And of course CNN, Rolling Stone, MSNBC, and even the Gov. of NY already blaming "free speech", Republicans, Fox News, Tucker Carlson. Oh and also making weird claims about this guy was also a crypto bro and that his support of crypto proves it's bad somehow.

When in reality....if you actually read his manifesto and internet forum and social media posts some actual investigative reporters were able to dig up on the guy- it all shows this psycho;

(a) hated and railed against Fox News constantly
(b) never mentions Tucker Carlson once or lists him as an influence anywhere
(c) trashes conservatism- saying things like thanks god conservatism is dead- conservatives care about nothing but profit and are the enemy and traitors
(d) trashes crypto currency and NFT's and calls them nothing but frauds and scams
(e) dude was constantly wearing wolfsangel and nazi black sun insignia - you know- the same symbols and insignia worn by those awesome great friendly peaceful swell guys from Ukraine who are totally not nazis and are our buddies and whom we've spent shitloads of money arming and training- the Azov's

Just really sad awful tragedy pray for the families that were ruined forever. Hope they give this son of a bitch the death penalty and it's just a god damn shame the media is trying to spin a narrative on this rather than get to the actual truth of the matter- but that's just par for the course with those f**king scumbags who do nothing but try to continue to divide and ruin this country.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 16, 2022, 12:04:09 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 16, 2022, 11:08:50 AM

Just really sad awful tragedy pray for the families that were ruined forever. Hope they give this son of a bitch the death penalty and it's just a god damn shame the media is trying to spin a narrative on this rather than get to the actual truth of the matter- but that's just par for the course with those f**king scumbags who do nothing but try to continue to divide and ruin this country.

It wont be long before these guys blame all this on MAGA supporters

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 16, 2022, 12:14:57 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 16, 2022, 12:04:09 PM

It wont be long before these guys blame all this on MAGA supporters

Ugh.

Liz Cheney says House GOP leaders 'have enabled' white supremacy, antisemitism (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/liz-cheney-says-house-gop-leaders-have-enabled-white-supremacy-antisemitism/ar-AAXkRpo?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=d7a70ae44abb47ed837a5ff9cbfe0792)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 16, 2022, 12:23:25 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 16, 2022, 12:14:57 PM

Ugh.

Liz Cheney says House GOP leaders 'have enabled' white supremacy, antisemitism (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/liz-cheney-says-house-gop-leaders-have-enabled-white-supremacy-antisemitism/ar-AAXkRpo?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=d7a70ae44abb47ed837a5ff9cbfe0792)

she will be out of office in Nov

cant be soon enough

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 16, 2022, 12:48:56 PM

She can pound sand with her crook father too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 16, 2022, 12:51:51 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 16, 2022, 12:48:56 PM

She can pound sand with her crook father too.

may they both rot and burn in hell. there may not be a bigger POS criminal political dynasty in US history than the Cheney family.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 16, 2022, 12:57:20 PM

Oh yes there are.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 16, 2022, 01:19:50 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 16, 2022, 12:04:09 PM

It wont be long before these guys blame all this on MAGA supporters

About a decade ago after an incel shooter incident, I talked to a someone I’m friendly with who is a psychologist about the motivations. Her read was basically, if a person is that kind of unstable, that gets poured into the shape of ideology rather than being shaped by ideology.

We do live in interesting times on that front. We oft simmer in the ideas of many, many great dangers in the world. We portray various “others” as something that must be both feared and stopped. We lovingly talk about acts of taking up arms and ending lives, sometimes even casting those who do so recklessly as heroes.

And it seems the truth is, unfettered, we just like doing it. We like living in this scared and divisive world, and thus we propagate it. I don’t blame it on one side, but we live in a world where each side would be doing what the other is now, were the facts reversed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 16, 2022, 02:24:49 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 16, 2022, 01:19:50 PM

About a decade ago after an incel shooter incident, I talked to a someone I’m friendly with who is a psychologist about the motivations. Her read was basically, if a person is that kind of unstable, that gets poured into the shape of ideology rather than being shaped by ideology.

We do live in interesting times on that front. We oft simmer in the ideas of many, many great dangers in the world. We portray various “others” as something that must be both feared and stopped. We lovingly talk about acts of taking up arms and ending lives, sometimes even casting those who do so recklessly as heroes.

And it seems the truth is, unfettered, we just like doing it. We like living in this scared and divisive world, and thus we propagate it. I don’t blame it on one side, but we live in a world where each side would be doing what the other is now, were the facts reversed.

I respect you but I dont buy that.  There are builders and there are takers in this world.  That's the two paths to success.  One can't exist without the other, but the other would do fine all by itself.

Its the same in politics.  Liberalism can't exist without the proceeds from conservative practices.  It's that simple. Conservative practice builds.  There is nothing wrong with sharing that when it matures, but there is something wrong with taking it. 

What we're witnessing now is akin to a sinking ship, and only the officer corps and the rats know that to be the case, and they're grabbing whatever they can and the fact it's at the expense of the crew doesn't even play into that decision. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 16, 2022, 02:34:55 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on May 16, 2022, 02:24:49 PM

I respect you but I dont buy that.  There are builders and there are takers in this world.  That's the two paths to success.  One can't exist without the other, but the other would do fine all by itself.

Its the same in politics.  Liberalism can't exist without the proceeds from conservative practices.  It's that simple. Conservative practice builds.  There is nothing wrong with sharing that when it matures, but there is something wrong with taking it. 

What we're witnessing now is akin to a sinking ship, and only the officer corps and the rats know that to be the case, and they're grabbing whatever they can and the fact it's at the expense of the crew doesn't even play into that decision. 

Which part of what I wrote do you not buy that leads to what you wrote? I’m not really seeing the connection.

(Oh, are you talking about the other side part at the end? That’s more in reference to narrative building. I.e. if the shooter had different views, they folks saying “he’s not one of ours” would likely be saying “he’s definitely one of yours”)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 16, 2022, 02:48:17 PM

Quote

And it seems the truth is, unfettered, we just like doing it. We like living in this scared and divisive world, and thus we propagate it. I don’t blame it on one side, but we live in a world where each side would be doing what the other is now, were the facts reversed.

That part.


Builders work in the environment they're thrust and figure it out.  Takers are the ones that complicate the environment and other than good healthy competition are always the source of angst. 

There is a clear way out of the woods, but there is somebody set to ambush that mechanism and extort it every single time.  From a micro to a macro vantage, this is always the case.  And.... takers are why people are in the proverbial woods to begin with. 

The profession of shrinks is an example.  They devise disorders out of thin air and then set forth to treat them.  Another: when is the last time you heard a doctor prescribe lettuce and fresh produce to a patient?  You'll see drugs prescribed constantly that have to be secured from a source. 

When I was a kid it was evident the places not to do business- stay away from used car lots with weekly payment schedules... stay away from rent to own... stay away from the corner boys... today? Mainstream industry is on the take.  It's too easy.  It's a cycle and we're on the slide right now- we got too big and bloated and instead of struggling to survive we had excess ... and became a target... and entertained BS mental gymnastics described conditions as fact. 

There are two sexes, and there is a third however excruciatingly rare it is.  That is science.  How it's perceived doesn't matter- and in a world based on logic I don't have to play along with someone else's warped sense of reality.  In the logical world, you sense intrinsically right and wrong- yet now the law is so far apart from right and wrong its a different subject.... to some... others are happy to exploit it. 

And that comes all the way back to "builders and takers". 

Yeah, that was a bit cryptic but it intentionally covers a lot of ground quickly. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 16, 2022, 02:50:34 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 16, 2022, 02:34:55 PM

Which part of what I wrote do you not buy that leads to what you wrote? I’m not really seeing the connection.

(Oh, are you talking about the other side part at the end? That’s more in reference to narrative building. I.e. if the shooter had different views, they folks saying “he’s not one of ours” would likely be saying “he’s definitely one of yours”)

Ah.  I misunderstood.  Forgive my outburst lol! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 16, 2022, 04:03:55 PM

And another one.

Authorities: Hate against Taiwanese led to church attack | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/religion-shootings-california-1be9931f502664693afbdaa3f1cf6c57)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 16, 2022, 04:59:48 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 16, 2022, 04:03:55 PM

And another one.

Authorities: Hate against Taiwanese led to church attack | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/religion-shootings-california-1be9931f502664693afbdaa3f1cf6c57)

Bless that pastor. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 16, 2022, 05:10:16 PM

I posted this yesterday with no reaction from anyone

I find this to be a violation of the boys constitutional rights

but maybe thats just me

https://nypost.com/2022/05/14/kiel-wisconsin-school-charges-kids-for-using-wrong-pronouns/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 16, 2022, 05:14:54 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 16, 2022, 04:03:55 PM

And another one.

Authorities: Hate against Taiwanese led to church attack | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/religion-shootings-california-1be9931f502664693afbdaa3f1cf6c57)

it was a Chinese man attacking a Taiwanese one? Wait...aren't they ethnically the same? Chinese on Chinese crime? Watch them spin this as because: Fox News.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 16, 2022, 05:17:11 PM

Rolling Stone has long been proven a joke, they get caught running flat out fake stories multiple times- this is just par for the course...but yeah, this is pretty bad....

"Call me an ethno-nationalist eco-fascist national socialist if you want, I wouldn’t disagree with you," wrote the gunman who killed 10 people on Saturday night. (https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-706727)

Totally sounds like a Republican watching Fox News guy...

https://twitter.com/KimIversenShow/status/1525978671915204608?s=20&t=pqiCslsiU9-MCOpJt-B1xA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 16, 2022, 05:26:37 PM

why take any accountability for government and law enforcement failure when you can just blame social media...

https://twitter.com/robbysoave/status/1526299261473804288?s=20&t=otrtSUNKGHkafKIL-TYWfQ



https://twitter.com/robbysoave/status/1526290192247799809?s=20&t=ATF4Id653MhYZBM02PP3yA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 16, 2022, 05:30:42 PM

man the British really are a f**king pathetic washed up people and the UK is a nutless, spineless, bitch boy country...from once the rulers of the world....to now just bitches....wow.

https://twitter.com/tparsi/status/1526269429650268163?s=20&t=Xzn-5zOCRSfpN3adTfnfaw

https://twitter.com/pmillerinfo/status/1525925611662938112?s=20&t=6GUrZ35jFAFtj4eZssauoA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 16, 2022, 06:52:55 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 16, 2022, 12:51:51 PM

may they both rot and burn in hell. there may not be a bigger POS criminal political dynasty in US history than the Cheney family.

Maybe/maybe not but DICK is apply named and I hope the devil himself plants a pitch fork in his backside for eternity.Along with Pelosi and every crooked politician and market manipulating mongrels.When they get to hell insider trading will take on a whole new meaning

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 16, 2022, 09:19:00 PM

A law enforcement officer stands by the opening of a cross-border tunnel on Monday, May 16, 2022 between Mexico's Tijuana into the San Diego area. Authorities have announced the discovery of the underground smuggling tunnel on Mexico's border, running the length of a football field on U.S. soil to a warehouse in an industrial area. The cross-border tunnel from Tijuana to the San Diego area was built in one of the most fortified stretches of the border, illustrating the limitations of former President Donald Trump's border wall. 

The secret passage from Tijuana to San Diego featured rail and ventilation systems, electricity and reinforced walls, authorities said. It was discovered near San Diego's Otay Mesa border crossing in an area where more than a dozen other sophisticated tunnels have been found in the last two decades.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/big-cross-border-tunnel-is-found-linking-tijuana-san-diego/ar-AAXlO0i?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=d339a74af407479f9c8e04826816ba4e (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/big-cross-border-tunnel-is-found-linking-tijuana-san-diego/ar-AAXlO0i?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=d339a74af407479f9c8e04826816ba4e)

(https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AAXm0Ws.img?w=768&h=570&m=6)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 16, 2022, 10:04:09 PM

Man the left ruins everything they touch, don't they. 

Get yer puke buckets ready... 



(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FS5WHzyXoAAb5B6?format=jpg&name=medium)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 16, 2022, 10:11:54 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 16, 2022, 05:10:16 PM

I posted this yesterday with no reaction from anyone

I find this to be a violation of the boys constitutional rights

but maybe thats just me

https://nypost.com/2022/05/14/kiel-wisconsin-school-charges-kids-for-using-wrong-pronouns/

No big deal. 

Bayareabadger assures us that this sort of thing doesn't happen. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 16, 2022, 10:22:46 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 16, 2022, 10:04:09 PM

Man the left ruins everything they touch, don't they.

Get yer puke buckets ready...



(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FS5WHzyXoAAb5B6?format=jpg&name=medium)

this isn't anything new, not sure it's the "left" and this type of sh*t has been going on for years now. this country is literally ass backwards and everything is upside down. 

everyone needs a safe space these days, pandering to the smallest minority factions is the norm to show "you're a good person", and being a fat disgusting pig is not only acceptable but it's healthy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 16, 2022, 10:23:31 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 16, 2022, 10:11:54 PM

No big deal.

Bayareabadger assures us that this sort of thing doesn't happen.

shitlibs gonna shitlib. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 16, 2022, 10:32:51 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 16, 2022, 10:11:54 PM

No big deal.

Bayareabadger assures us that this sort of thing doesn't happen.

Note: Not a thing I did. 

That is truly a grotesque and despicable act by that school district. I tend to think we as a society throw around the idea of firing people far too much, but in that case, more than warranted.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 16, 2022, 10:34:52 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 16, 2022, 10:23:31 PM

shitlibs gonna shitlib.

Damn shame when someone is "trying to spin a narrative on this rather than get to the actual truth of the matter- but that's just par for the course with those f**king scumbags who do nothing but try to continue to divide and ruin this country."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 16, 2022, 10:36:32 PM

this is so god damn funny because it's astonishingly accurate......:043:

(https://preview.redd.it/k949ookxlvz81.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=fb58558880e448ae27e279abbc73baf8c74a8686)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 16, 2022, 10:47:30 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on May 16, 2022, 02:48:17 PM

 
The profession of shrinks is an example.  They devise disorders out of thin air and then set forth to treat them. Another: when is the last time you heard a doctor prescribe lettuce and fresh produce to a patient?  You'll see drugs prescribed constantly that have to be secured from a source. 

When I was a kid it was evident the places not to do business- stay away from used car lots with weekly payment schedules... stay away from rent to own... stay away from the corner boys... today? Mainstream industry is on the take.  It's too easy.  It's a cycle and we're on the slide right now- we got too big and bloated and instead of struggling to survive we had excess ... and became a target... and entertained BS mental gymnastics described conditions as fact. 

There are two sexes, and there is a third however excruciatingly rare it is.  That is science.  How it's perceived doesn't matter- and in a world based on logic I don't have to play along with someone else's warped sense of reality.  In the logical world, you sense intrinsically right and wrong- yet now the law is so far apart from right and wrong its a different subject.... to some... others are happy to exploit it. 

Lock the Thread - most of the conditions can be docked under the label/condition of ASSHOLE, racist assholes, vicious assholes,religious assholes, lying assholes,political assholes,nationalistic assholes,culteral assholes, social assholes,guilty ignorant looser offended assholes.........

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 16, 2022, 10:56:23 PM

you can't lock this thread

"other news" never stops

like rust, it never sleeps

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 16, 2022, 11:13:43 PM

Mdot, I'll explain the subtext.

You said that dividing this country both makes someone a scumbag and ruins the place. 

You continually do things that create a more divided world, namely screaming that anyone who mildly disagrees with you is "shit" and a "tard." 

This gives off the indication you very much like living in a divided country. Because one step to becoming less divided is treating each other somewhat well, and you seem to enjoy not doing that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 17, 2022, 03:11:45 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 16, 2022, 05:30:42 PM

man the British really are a f**king pathetic washed up people and the UK is a nutless, spineless, bitch boy country...from once the rulers of the world....to now just bitches....wow.

https://twitter.com/tparsi/status/1526269429650268163?s=20&t=Xzn-5zOCRSfpN3adTfnfaw

https://twitter.com/pmillerinfo/status/1525925611662938112?s=20&t=6GUrZ35jFAFtj4eZssauoA

Wait a minute......wasn't it you bashing Biden for not getting Saudi brass on the phone??  Seems uh...gee.....is there a word for when you think one thing, then think the exact opposite the next day?
Boy, they sure should make a word for when that happens.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 17, 2022, 03:12:37 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 16, 2022, 10:22:46 PM

this isn't anything new, not sure it's the "left" and this type of sh*t has been going on for years now. this country is literally ass backwards and everything is upside down.

everyone needs a safe space these days, pandering to the smallest minority factions is the norm to show "you're a good person", and being a fat disgusting pig is not only acceptable but it's healthy.

I think that's mostly people under 30 or so.  Maybe even younger.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 17, 2022, 07:42:14 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 16, 2022, 10:56:23 PM

you can't lock this thread

"other news" never stops

like rust, it never sleeps

ASSHOLE ;D

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 17, 2022, 09:10:02 AM

In regards to pronouns... 

Its beyond dumb that criminal charges can be brought against someone, especially children, for their lack of pretending and playing along with someone else's distorted reality.  

I want to pretend I'm a uh1w from Vietnam era... you don't want to use the iCS to communicate with me?  You go to jail- like, real jail.  

How is that different? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 17, 2022, 09:35:02 AM

I don't think it's a distorted reality, except for the surge at middle-school age, who do it because it's now a thing.
I don't doubt many FEEL they're the wrong actual gender when they're young, but if you can't be trusted to drive or adopt a kid when you're young, there's no reason to intervene in regards to this until they're 16-18.  
.
Using someone's pronouns is a matter of etiquette.  If you know them and respect them, guess what, you'll use their pronouns.  And also guess what - you'll use their pronouns if they match how they look.  Pronoun use is rarely a conscious matter, it's whatever comes out in the flow of your speech.  If you've known a guy for 15 years and he's a she now, you're going to say "he" because that's what he is in your mind.  If it's someone you've recently met and they look like a she, then you'll use she.
The pronoun thing is only an issue when the trans person is looking to get offended when there is no offense OR when someone is deliberately being a jerk about it.  The rest of the time, it's accurate or innocently inaccurate.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 17, 2022, 09:39:55 AM

I honestly don't remember hearing anything about a trans until I hit 40 or so.

It would nice if things were simple again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 17, 2022, 09:58:48 AM

If that is their life, good on them.  Live it how they want else have such an internal struggle they become mentally ill...

But.

I dont have to play along.  Them expecting me to play along is as bad as categorically damning them from what they think i think is a perceived moral superior vantage... which is what they're accusing me of, frankly, for not playing along. 

...... and this is a fight that absolutely doesn't need to exist... its made up bull shit with express intent to divide. 

I just finished a project for a full bird colonel and her wife.  You read that right.  Curiously, we had the discussion when I said "yes mam" in my southern way... I told her I respected her and didn't judge her and really could GaF what they were, weren't, could be, wanted to be, or was... I'm just not playing along with what is contradictory to my senses.  Period.  I told her "I'd appreciate it if you'd respect my position now that we've discussed it" and she agreed. She straight up said "it's the guys who don't respect our lifestyle that we try to enforce the pronouns", and though I've issue with that I didn't pursue it...

I. Don't. Have. To. Play. Along. And if someone tries to arrest me for that as they charge those kids in freakin middle school, then there is gonna be a not-pretend problem. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 17, 2022, 10:02:19 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 17, 2022, 09:35:02 AM

I don't think it's a distorted reality, except for the surge at middle-school age, who do it because it's now a thing.
I don't doubt many FEEL they're the wrong actual gender when they're young, but if you can't be trusted to drive or adopt a kid when you're young, there's no reason to intervene in regards to this until they're 16-18. 
.
Using someone's pronouns is a matter of etiquette.  If you know them and respect them, guess what, you'll use their pronouns.  And also guess what - you'll use their pronouns if they match how they look.  Pronoun use is rarely a conscious matter, it's whatever comes out in the flow of your speech.  If you've known a guy for 15 years and he's a she now, you're going to say "he" because that's what he is in your mind.  If it's someone you've recently met and they look like a she, then you'll use she.
The pronoun thing is only an issue when the trans person is looking to get offended when there is no offense OR when someone is deliberately being a jerk about it.  The rest of the time, it's accurate or innocently inaccurate.

Thats true but the constitution gives you a right not to use their pronouns

Failure to say certain words is not a crime and this school is saying it is

Thats bullshit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 17, 2022, 10:24:14 AM

people looking to be offended by words are going to find reasons

lighten up Francis

(https://c.tenor.com/FpmmrItU7b4AAAAd/stripes-francis-francis.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 17, 2022, 10:55:17 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 17, 2022, 03:12:37 AM

I think that's mostly people under 30 or so.  Maybe even younger. 

it's not just people under 30. it's permeated throughout the entire society. you even have corporations playing "woke" to score brownie points for being "good citizens" - it's slick bullshit marketing to try and sell some idea that they have good intentions and are good actors- and are not just what every corporation really is about- to make a buck.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 17, 2022, 10:59:18 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 17, 2022, 03:11:45 AM

Wait a minute......wasn't it you bashing Biden for not getting Saudi brass on the phone??  Seems uh...gee.....is there a word for when you think one thing, then think the exact opposite the next day?
Boy, they sure should make a word for when that happens. 

You're not too bright, are you? 

UAE ≠ Saudis, and UK ≠ USA.

Think about it, then get back to me. Might take you awhile.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 17, 2022, 11:00:21 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 16, 2022, 11:13:43 PM

Mdot, I'll explain the subtext.

You said that dividing this country both makes someone a scumbag and ruins the place.

You continually do things that create a more divided world, namely screaming that anyone who mildly disagrees with you is "shit" and a "tard."

This gives off the indication you very much like living in a divided country. Because one step to becoming less divided is treating each other somewhat well, and you seem to enjoy not doing that.

yeah, no. exactly the opposite.

the shitlib, libtard, vote blue no matter, BlueAnon conspiracy theorist shitbags- of which most of the mainstream media schills for- are who are completely dividing and ruining this country. congrats on being in that crew, I guess?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 17, 2022, 11:11:38 AM

Elon Musk says Twitter deal is on hold until his teams due diligence can verify Twitter's claim that "well under 5%" of it's users are bots/spam.

Calling BULLSHIT on both sides of this deal. Twitter's users are WAY more than 5% bots/spam- wouldn't be shocked if the real number was almost a quarter- and Musk is just trying to put the squeeze on them to get a better closing price. Twitter shares fell from $45 to $37 immediately after the news was announced the deal was on hold pending due diligence of the bots/spam claim- and it'll continue to fall.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 17, 2022, 11:18:50 AM

That's a fancy way of saying that he can't get the financing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 17, 2022, 11:33:19 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on May 17, 2022, 11:18:50 AM

That's a fancy way of saying that he can't get the financing.

Lol. That is a ludicrous statement. He's the richest private citizen in the entire world. He can get the financing. He can get financing for anything. $44 billion in financing is a drop in the bucket to a guy like that.

Twitter is CLEARLY without question, 100% lying to it's shareholders and advertisers and in it's SEC filings as well and has committed fraud. There is NO way in HELL their user base is "well below 5%" bots/spam. It's just not possible. 

Elon Musk's buying Coca Cola and putting the cocaine back in it tweet is the most liked tweet of all time. It was interacted with by ONLY 2% of Twitter's entire user base. Given that fact- just running the numbers- there is a very high likely hood that the number of bots/spam could even be as high as 50%. How are advertisers suppose to know what they’re getting for their money if a shitload of the accounts are fake? Who would even want to advertise on a platform like that with so many fake users? 

Twitter REFUSES to provide proof of their ludicrous claim that the bots/spam is "well below 5%". Won't provide proof, and the shitbag CEO of the shitbag company says it's impossible for verification of bots/spam to be "performed externally".... ie....no outside actor can verify our info.....just trust us. Uh yeah, how about no.

Twitter is not NEARLY as influential or widely used as media makes it out to be- which made no sense to me why the F they were freaking and flipping out that he was buying it. It's a complete DOGSHIT company, it's forever been a dogshit company, and it's user base/engagement is f***king WEAK sauce. In terms of revenue, influence, user base/engagement, literally any metric you can think of- Twitter is a PISS ANT peon NOTHING compared to Google, Facebook, TikTok, or even Snapchat. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 17, 2022, 12:17:38 PM

more great news for BLM Global or whatever the F it's called....the main/most predominant BLM foundation that was started by some con artist named Patrisse Cullors - which has raised something like $90 million- with most of the money completely unaccounted for....welp, turns out not only did she spend like $9 million in cash on a pair of mansions- and only now does she finally admit that she previously had lied about the purchase and use of those mansions- she's been paying her babby daddy and her brother a f**k ton of money and also chartering private jets for personal use and expensing it to the foundation. She paid nearly $1 million to an LLC owned by her babby daddy for "creative services", she paid $840,000 to an LLC owned by her brother for "security services" and also apparently paid one of her best friends and a board of director $2.1 million for "consulting fees". She also charged personal use of a charter jet of $73,000 to this BLM chapter.

Two long-time Clinton machine cronies/scumbags- who worked for both Bill and Hillary in the past- and who were on the board of this chapter of BLM- just stepped down from the board days ago. Methinks shit about to hit the fan over there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 17, 2022, 04:36:07 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on May 17, 2022, 09:58:48 AM

If that is their life, good on them.  Live it how they want else have such an internal struggle they become mentally ill...

But.

I dont have to play along.  Them expecting me to play along is as bad as categorically damning them from what they think i think is a perceived moral superior vantage... which is what they're accusing me of, frankly, for not playing along. 

...... and this is a fight that absolutely doesn't need to exist... its made up bull shit with express intent to divide. 

I just finished a project for a full bird colonel and her wife.  You read that right.  Curiously, we had the discussion when I said "yes mam" in my southern way... I told her I respected her and didn't judge her and really could GaF what they were, weren't, could be, wanted to be, or was... I'm just not playing along with what is contradictory to my senses.  Period.  I told her "I'd appreciate it if you'd respect my position now that we've discussed it" and she agreed. She straight up said "it's the guys who don't respect our lifestyle that we try to enforce the pronouns", and though I've issue with that I didn't pursue it...

I. Don't. Have. To. Play. Along. And if someone tries to arrest me for that as they charge those kids in freakin middle school, then there is gonna be a not-pretend problem. 

Drew if we cached some of your recent expanations/qoutes and dragged them out at election time - you'd win a seat somewhere

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 17, 2022, 06:05:47 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 17, 2022, 11:00:21 AM

yeah, no. exactly the opposite.

the shitlib, libtard, vote blue no matter, BlueAnon conspiracy theorist shitbags- of which most of the mainstream media schills for- are who are completely dividing and ruining this country. congrats on being in that crew, I guess?

“My visceral insulting everyone who disagrees with me is not divisive in any way.” 

Lord have mercy we are screwed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 17, 2022, 06:12:35 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 17, 2022, 10:02:19 AM

Thats true but the constitution gives you a right not to use their pronouns

Failure to say certain words is not a crime and this school is saying it is

Thats bullshit

I’d be interested in the constitutional backing of that.

Like, the rules of free speech are not absolute in school. If a kid walks around calling his teacher a ~unacceptable vulgar term for part of female anatomy~, it keeps calling a classmate a faggot, there can generally be consequences. The usual, oft over-applied standard is “disruption,” and perhaps one could apply that. I guess you could argue that’s political speech, but that seems a stretch.

All that said, something doesn’t have to reach all the way to a constitutional violation to be a gross miscarriage. The people running that investigation should both discontinue immediately and face serious consequences .

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 17, 2022, 06:29:28 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 17, 2022, 06:12:35 PM

I’d be interested in the constitutional backing of that.

Like, the rules of free speech are not absolute in school. If a kid walks around calling his teacher a ~unacceptable vulgar term for part of female anatomy~, it keeps calling a classmate a faggot, there can generally be consequences. The usual, oft over-applied standard is “disruption,” and perhaps one could apply that. I guess you could argue that’s political speech, but that seems a stretch.

All that said, something doesn’t have to reach all the way to a constitutional violation to be a gross miscarriage. The people running that investigation should both discontinue immediately and face serious consequences .

I agree with what you said here. We don't know what names the kids were using when referring to the trans student. However, if they were merely using pronouns that correspond to his ACUTAL gender,/anatomy, the school is way out of line. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 17, 2022, 06:41:02 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 17, 2022, 06:29:28 PM

I agree with what you said here. We don't know what names the kids were using when referring to the trans student. However, if they were merely using pronouns that correspond to his ACUTAL gender,/anatomy, the school is way out of line.

Honestly, almost no matter what insults they were throwing, I think the school is out of line. That’s a big, powerful phrase attached to that investigation.

Short of the kids doing something truly grotesque, there are all manner of low-stakes punishments that can be levied, if they are deemed appropriate. (And when I say punishment, that includes something a penny ante as a stern taking to about being nice to people)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 17, 2022, 07:32:34 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 17, 2022, 06:12:35 PM

I’d be interested in the constitutional backing of that.

Like, the rules of free speech are not absolute in school. If a kid walks around calling his teacher a ~unacceptable vulgar term for part of female anatomy~, it keeps calling a classmate a faggot, there can generally be consequences. The usual, oft over-applied standard is “disruption,” and perhaps one could apply that. I guess you could argue that’s political speech, but that seems a stretch.

All that said, something doesn’t have to reach all the way to a constitutional violation to be a gross miscarriage. The people running that investigation should both discontinue immediately and face serious consequences .

When they start charging you with a crime for not using the proper pronoun when referring to your classmate

the 1st Amendment is very much in play

This school is way over the line with this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 17, 2022, 08:13:24 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 17, 2022, 12:17:38 PM

more great news for BLM Global or whatever the F it's called....the main/most predominant BLM foundation that was started by some con artist named Patrisse Cullors - which has raised something like $90 million- with most of the money completely unaccounted for....welp, turns out not only did she spend like $9 million in cash on a pair of mansions- and only now does she finally admit that she previously had lied about the purchase and use of those mansions- she's been paying her babby daddy and her brother a f**k ton of money and also chartering private jets for personal use and expensing it to the foundation. She paid nearly $1 million to an LLC owned by her babby daddy for "creative services", she paid $840,000 to an LLC owned by her brother for "security services" and also apparently paid one of her best friends and a board of director $2.1 million for "consulting fees". She also charged personal use of a charter jet of $73,000 to this BLM chapter.

Two long-time Clinton machine cronies/scumbags- who worked for both Bill and Hillary in the past- and who were on the board of this chapter of BLM- just stepped down from the board days ago. Methinks shit about to hit the fan over there.

Her motto is obviously "a fool and his money are soon parted." 

She bilked a bunch of corporations and Fro-types real good. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 17, 2022, 08:15:45 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 17, 2022, 06:05:47 PM

“My visceral insulting everyone who disagrees with me is not divisive in any way.”

Lord have mercy we are screwed.

"Condemning the divisive is divisive!!!" 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 17, 2022, 08:18:05 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 17, 2022, 07:32:34 PM

When they start charging you with a crime for not using the proper pronoun when referring to your classmate

the 1st Amendment is very much in play

This school is way over the line with this

FIFY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 17, 2022, 08:20:49 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 17, 2022, 08:13:24 PM

Her motto is obviously "a fool and his money are soon parted."

She bilked a bunch of corporations and Fro-types real good.

Yeah.......cuz that's me.....cuz you keep saying so....so it's gotta be true....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 17, 2022, 08:39:59 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 17, 2022, 08:18:05 PM

FIFY

why I made a C+ in English

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 17, 2022, 09:02:23 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 17, 2022, 08:39:59 PM

why I made a C+ in English

I just meant that the Left is calling the correct pronouns "wrong pronouns" and criminalizing the truth. Forcing us to lie, more or less. 

If Stephen wants to be called Stephanie, fine. People use nicknames all the time. No big deal. Once he starts demanding that I pretend that he's an actual woman, that's where I draw the line. It's preposterous. 

If there are any heterosexuals left among the White Left, I bet that none of them would be willing to put their money where their mouth is, and date these "women" exclusively. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 17, 2022, 09:42:58 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 17, 2022, 08:15:45 PM

"Condemning the divisive is divisive!!!"

If you do it in a profanity-laden, spittle-flying way, yep, pretty much. 

Just about no one feels like coming together as a nation because someone dog cussed them for fun. Fixing divisions is going to take someone saying "That was a terrible thing to say, but I'll work to respond calmly." And it's understandable people don't want to do that and are content widening divisions. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 17, 2022, 09:52:27 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 17, 2022, 07:32:34 PM

When they start charging you with a crime for not using the proper pronoun when referring to your classmate

the 1st Amendment is very much in play

This school is way over the line with this

Possibly. Again, some things that are protected speech are capped for various reasons in those settings. One could argue this is a political statement, which maybe would be covered. 

Like, you could get in trouble for mocking a fat or bulimic person's weight, one student to another. That is most likely protected speech in a first amendment sense, but in some ways capped. Now, if these possible taunts were cast as a political statement, those tend to get more protection. 

But in the end, it shouldn't come to any of that. Even before we talk first amendment, a sexual assault investigation (I'm not totally clear on if "charges" are being used in an official sense or colloquially) is an absolutely ridiculous response to this, unless someone is lying. Even more basic than the question of constitutionally protected speech is that this simply is in no way sexual harassment, even if it wasn't protected. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 17, 2022, 09:55:16 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 17, 2022, 09:42:58 PM

If you do it in a profanity-laden, spittle-flying way, yep, pretty much.

Just about no one feels like coming together as a nation because someone dog cussed them for fun. Fixing divisions is going to take someone saying "That was a terrible thing to say, but I'll work to respond calmly." And it's understandable people don't want to do that and are content widening divisions.

Riiiight, because you never say anything excessively vulgar whenever you get all butt hurt over something as trivial as someone not liking Californians. 

Oh wait, yeah you do. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 17, 2022, 10:52:45 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 17, 2022, 09:52:27 PM

Possibly. Again, some things that are protected speech are capped for various reasons in those settings. One could argue this is a political statement, which maybe would be covered.

Like, you could get in trouble for mocking a fat or bulimic person's weight, one student to another. That is most likely protected speech in a first amendment sense, but in some ways capped. Now, if these possible taunts were cast as a political statement, those tend to get more protection.

But in the end, it shouldn't come to any of that. Even before we talk first amendment, a sexual assault investigation (I'm not totally clear on if "charges" are being used in an official sense or colloquially) is an absolutely ridiculous response to this, unless someone is lying. Even more basic than the question of constitutionally protected speech is that this simply is in no way sexual harassment, even if it wasn't protected.

Here is a perfect example of a court finding 1st Amendment issues for required pronoun use


https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/professor-wouldnt-use-trans-students-pronouns-wins-400k-settlement-rcna24989

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 17, 2022, 10:53:08 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 17, 2022, 09:55:16 PM

Riiiight, because you never say anything excessively vulgar whenever you get all butt hurt over something as trivial as someone not liking Californians.

Oh wait, yeah you do.

You're right. I shouldn't have said that. I let someone who wanted to deepen the divisions in our country get the better of me. (Also, that someone was admittedly trolling for a response)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 17, 2022, 10:58:57 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 17, 2022, 10:52:45 PM

Here is a perfect example of a court finding 1st Amendment issues for required pronoun use


https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/professor-wouldnt-use-trans-students-pronouns-wins-400k-settlement-rcna24989

That's a college, not a middle school (protections for college professors are extremely broad). And it was cast as part of a political statement, which I noted could be part of a case arguing for it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 17, 2022, 11:06:06 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 17, 2022, 10:58:57 PM

That's a college, not a middle school (protections for college professors are extremely broad). And it was cast as part of a political statement, which I noted could be part of a case arguing for it.

and yet if you read the 1st amendment it does not say it only applies to older citizens

sorry but as I previously said when the school ramped up sexual harassment charges against these kids it took the situation to a much higher level

yes the 1st amendment does apply here even though its kids involved

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 17, 2022, 11:29:31 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 17, 2022, 11:06:06 PM

and yet if you read the 1st amendment it does not say it only applies to older citizens

sorry but as I previously said when the school ramped up sexual harassment charges against these kids it took the situation to a much higher level

yes the 1st amendment does apply here even though its kids involved

Again, we absolutely 175% agree about the middle portion. So we don't need to go over that part.

Now, I've not said I'm 100% sure the first amendment doesn't apply here, but I think it's a gray area, at least until the courts clarify it. We also know, and I think can agree, that there are some things students are not allowed to say in levels of K-12 settings. For example, you can't cuss out a teacher nor loudly say something lewd about a classmate, or slinging around racial slurs without the risk of some kind of consequence (but all these things are first amendment protected in the vast majority of situations). Teachers are allowed to levy some punishment for what's deemed disruptive behavior.

Again, we agree to the hilt that this consequence it wholly gross and terrible, and the people levying it should be shamed. But I'm not sure, at least at this point, if whatever is alleged could possibly fall under the disruptive category. (And to take it to another level of agreement, if the parents' story is true, the school should also be able to level some type of discipline on the person with the pronouns for flipping shit at some kid. )

Edit: There could be a compelled speech argument, the same principle why you can’t make kids say the pledge of allegiance. That was again cast as a political matter, but perhaps this will be too. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 18, 2022, 08:12:56 AM

half of President Biden's Twitter followers are fake....Twitter and it's CEO are totally telling the truth and not flat out committing fraud about being "well under 5% bots/spam"....LOL.

https://www.newsweek.com/half-joe-biden-twitter-followers-are-fake-audit-elon-musk-1707244

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 18, 2022, 08:17:19 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 17, 2022, 10:53:08 PM

You're right. I shouldn't have said that. I let someone who wanted to deepen the divisions in our country get the better of me. (Also, that someone was admittedly trolling for a response)

can't troll a troll. I'm untrollable. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 18, 2022, 08:21:42 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 17, 2022, 06:05:47 PM

“My visceral insulting everyone who disagrees with me is not divisive in any way.”

Lord have mercy we are screwed.

we've been screwed. I blame the Democrats and this new form of "liberal" which isn't really liberal at all- and more like a Bush-Cheney creature. Which kinda makes sense when you see how many Bush-Cheney scumbags have infiltrated the Democratic party.

People are more tribal than ever before. I don't think that'll change until we can break up the duopoly and have multiple parties. Til then- it's all gonna be groupthink and you'll have your vote blue no matter who shitlibs and your bible thumping jesus freak republicans.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 18, 2022, 08:24:58 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 17, 2022, 09:42:58 PM

If you do it in a profanity-laden, spittle-flying way, yep, pretty much.

Just about no one feels like coming together as a nation because someone dog cussed them for fun. Fixing divisions is going to take someone saying "That was a terrible thing to say, but I'll work to respond calmly." And it's understandable people don't want to do that and are content widening divisions.

Nah. The ones who are widening divisions of this country are the ones who continually peddle evidence free conspiracy theories like Russiagate, openly want to start WWIII with the country that has the largest stockpile of nukes in the world, wants to blindly dump weapons and flood money with no oversight or accountability into Ukraine, wants to censor the internet and free speech, and thinks everyone has to think and act exactly like them or they are deplorable or racist or nazis- which is totally not weird at all considering same people are cozying up to literal nazis in Ukraine. So- to recap- basically only most of the mainstream media and the establishment wing of the Democratic party.

We're totally not screwed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2022, 08:27:35 AM

I consider myself a free-thinker. 

My top priorities include the economy, the environment and quality education. Those who stand for the same are the ones who get my votes. It's really simple like that, and for me it's easy to keep it that way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 18, 2022, 08:27:41 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 17, 2022, 11:29:31 PM

Again, we absolutely 175% agree about the middle portion. So we don't need to go over that part.

Now, I've not said I'm 100% sure the first amendment doesn't apply here, but I think it's a gray area, at least until the courts clarify it. We also know, and I think can agree, that there are some things students are not allowed to say in levels of K-12 settings. For example, you can't cuss out a teacher nor loudly say something lewd about a classmate, or slinging around racial slurs without the risk of some kind of consequence (but all these things are first amendment protected in the vast majority of situations). Teachers are allowed to levy some punishment for what's deemed disruptive behavior.

Again, we agree to the hilt that this consequence it wholly gross and terrible, and the people levying it should be shamed. But I'm not sure, at least at this point, if whatever is alleged could possibly fall under the disruptive category. (And to take it to another level of agreement, if the parents' story is true, the school should also be able to level some type of discipline on the person with the pronouns for flipping shit at some kid. )

Edit: There could be a compelled speech argument, the same principle why you can’t make kids say the pledge of allegiance. That was again cast as a political matter, but perhaps this will be too.

Very nice summation. 

What people seem to forget is that the first amendment protects a persons right to express themselves, but it does not protect against the consequences of said speech if it harms or causes harm to come to another person.

The question here is did the use of a pronoun cause the "victim" (for lack of a better term) harm? Also, can a person compell another to use words of their choosing that may not be truthful? Also, did the speech of the accused cause a disruption in the school?

If the facts of this particular case as reported are correct, I would have to say that using factually correct pronouns does not cause harm to the person the pronouns are directed to. That person does not have the right to compell others which speech they can or cannot use. And if there was a disruption in the school, it most likely came from the person that was offended by a truthful pronoun being used to refer to them. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 18, 2022, 08:36:17 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2022, 08:27:35 AM

I consider myself a free-thinker.

My top priorities include the economy, the environment and quality education. Those who stand for the same are the ones who get my votes. It's really simple like that, and for me it's easy to keep it that way.

Add crime and a better, smarter border policy and I am with you.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 18, 2022, 08:45:26 AM

Hmmmm.....from about a month ago....when shitlibs were complaining about losing a bunch of followers once a deal had been announced...insinuating it was Musk- even though these morons did not realize a deal had simply been announced- not closed- still long ways to go before Musk actually owned the damn thing...

https://twitter.com/tasteapiana/status/1518772313864421377?s=20&t=pvsgZD7-wIRMOEMUshHYiQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 18, 2022, 08:45:53 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 17, 2022, 09:42:58 PM

If you do it in a profanity-laden, spittle-flying way, yep, pretty much.

Just about no one feels like coming together as a nation because someone dog cussed them for fun. Fixing divisions is going to take someone saying "That was a terrible thing to say, but I'll work to respond calmly." And it's understandable people don't want to do that and are content widening divisions.

I might buy that of your worat post hadn't been delivered several months after the fact. Lol

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2022, 08:49:03 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 18, 2022, 08:36:17 AM

Add crime and a better, smarter border policy and I am with you. 

Border for sure. 

Crime kinda gets taken care of with education and economy. The root cause of most violent crime is not having an education or a job.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 18, 2022, 09:00:35 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2022, 08:49:03 AM

Border for sure.

Crime kinda gets taken care of with education and economy. The root cause of most violent crime is not having an education or a job.

yup. people wonder why South side of Chicago or most of Detroit is a war zone. Entire industries up and left and with it untold amounts of jobs and tax base, and people fled. Public education and entire areas just fall into despair because of the loss of industry and tax base.

If you want to help poor black people in these inner cities and cut down on crime- nothing would help them more than free college or technical training programs, healthcare, and a living wage. Biden comes in and does not even try his hand to fight for even one of these things, but makes Juneteenth a national holiday. It's all signals. No substance. If it was 1860 the Democrats would be bragging about being the party of the first trans gender slave owner.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 18, 2022, 09:03:07 AM

one of the most shockingly accurate memes I've ever seen...


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Em6BszxW8AAsLyZ.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 18, 2022, 09:09:11 AM

Twitter seems like a swell company....breaking SEC rules and committing fraud and lying to investors....employing shitbags. Musk going to get it at a reduced price and fire half the company. LOL. 

https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1526720931581894656?s=20&t=786SOhOTZWHzTLPiEHWvxA

https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1526340064388734977?s=20&t=786SOhOTZWHzTLPiEHWvxA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 18, 2022, 09:12:08 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 18, 2022, 08:17:19 AM

can't troll a troll. I'm untrollable.

Wasn’t talking about you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 18, 2022, 09:20:39 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 18, 2022, 08:45:53 AM

I might buy that of your worat post hadn't been delivered several months after the fact. Lol

worat?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 18, 2022, 09:22:52 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 18, 2022, 09:20:39 AM

worat?

Borat's cousin?


(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/25207475/im-borats-cousin.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 18, 2022, 09:30:59 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2022, 08:27:35 AM

I consider myself a free-thinker.

My top priorities include the economy, the environment and quality education. Those who stand for the same are the ones who get my votes. It's really simple like that, and for me it's easy to keep it that way.

You'd be in the Majority,it's the far left and far right that have done the damage.And of course the media - can't leave them out

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 18, 2022, 09:33:10 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2022, 08:49:03 AM

Border for sure.

Crime kinda gets taken care of with education and economy. The root cause of most violent crime is not having an education or a job.

Or resposible parent(s)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 18, 2022, 09:35:17 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 18, 2022, 09:03:07 AM

one of the most shockingly accurate memes I've ever seen...


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Em6BszxW8AAsLyZ.jpg)

How appropriate - both of them are blasting this country to hell

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 18, 2022, 10:26:12 AM

who is dividing the country? .....asking any of the board resident shitlibs. wasn't pushing an evidence free based conspiracy theory like Russiagate bad enough? Now calling the entire Republican party- which is roughly half the country- Domestic Terrorists- and white supremacists and claiming 78% of murders in the US are committed by white supremacists- sheesh. Dear lord.


https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1526929856730112004?s=20&t=gY9yNLGZ6EElhT5oTcquag

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1526930663118671878?s=20&t=gY9yNLGZ6EElhT5oTcquag

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 18, 2022, 12:00:44 PM

DHS is "pausing" it's disinformation board aka "ministry of truth".

Washington Post is of course tone deaf as usual and up in arms over this, wouldn't expect anything less from a super shitty god awful "reporter" like Taylor Lorenz and a complete shitlib mainstream tabloid rag like the Washington Post.

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1526944411149643777?s=20&t=4j6jVEREEeGSvH7CPGkEkQ

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1526950548490047489?s=20&t=4j6jVEREEeGSvH7CPGkEkQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 18, 2022, 12:04:43 PM

Senate majority leader Chuck Schumer sends scathing letter to Fox News and rails against Tucker Carlson. Carlson invites him on the show to debate. Chuck Schumer publicly declines said invitation. 

Gee, seems to me like it's mainly one side that is trying to divide and keep this nation divided. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 18, 2022, 12:08:27 PM

The View attacking Tucker Carlson saying he's irrelevant. Lol. Get it right....either he's hugely popular and therefore responsible for every lunatic committing mass murders out there or he's irrelevant- not both. Damn that comedian Tim Dillon was dead on the money....whoever engineered or created The View was a misogynist and there are plenty of brilliant women out there, and literally none of them are on The View.

Tucker Carlson gets more viewers than any of the top rated MSNBC and CNN shows....combined. Carlson gets more registered Democrats watching his show in the key demo of age 25-54 than MSNBC or CNN. So if he's irrelevant...then what are the hosts at those other cable news channels?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2022, 01:06:27 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 18, 2022, 10:26:12 AM

board resident shitlibs

We don't have that here. Please stop. These are all good people here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 18, 2022, 02:16:20 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2022, 01:06:27 PM

We don't have that here. Please stop. These are all good people here.

yep this is a safe place and we love everybody here

even OAM (I guess)

just kidding

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 18, 2022, 03:03:07 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 18, 2022, 02:16:20 PM

yep this is a safe place and we love everybody here

even OAM (I guess)

just kidding

Lmao.

OAM isn’t that bad, come on now. I like hearing his perspective. I like hearing other peoples perspectives and views. We all should. No one is always right. We’re all wrong about shit. 

And badge is right, I should stop using that term shitlib, it’s just so fun to use though lmao. I feel like the entire “liberal” movement or wing or whatever you want to call it has been hijacked by these new shitlib creatures though. Idk exactly when it started or happened- but Trump seriously just broke tens of millions of brains. It’s astonishing to see really to be honest with you.

Say what you want about the guy, but Trump is a masterful troll and showman. He really knows how to keep people talking about him 24/7 and also piss them off and get under their skin.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 18, 2022, 03:13:14 PM

more you read into this lunatic mass shooter in Buffalo, few things become apparent….

A) law enforcement did a HORRIBLE job here. he was known to leos and they were tipped off about him multiple times- kid even threatened to shoot up his high school a year before. state of NY leos admitted he was a person of interest and they failed to follow up/watch him and that he “fell off their radar”. BLAME LAW ENFORCEMENT FAILURE for this. Not social media.

B) kid had more in common with Azov in Ukraine than he did Fox News or Tucker Carlson. His manifesto blasted Fox News and Conservatism repeatedly and he didn’t mention Carlson one time. He did however spout a bunch of nonsensical racist, nazi, anti-semitic shit that’d be right at home from the Azov boys. Oh and he always wore hazmat suits and 30 masks to school and was deathly afraid of COVID. True story. Sounds like a viewer from that guy Rachel Maddow’s show to me.

C) we really need to start taking deranged people who make mass shooting threats more seriously. This little piece of shit threatened to shoot up his school and instead of being put in a mental institution or put on probation with a gps ankle bracelet and monitored 24/7 he was free to go. 

D) Need to stop trying to 
blame a political party or social media or anything…kid was a freaking deranged lunatic. Lunatics gonna lunatic. Have to start taking the signs of lunatics more seriously…and need to reopen mental health facilities and put them in there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2022, 03:38:18 PM

All of these "news" channels are about one thing and one thing only. Ratings.

They say outrageous things to get people riled up, and people do for some reason. People need to stop watching this crap and do something else for "news" other than listen to someone rant.

That goes for Tucker too. It's all evil and it's all divisive. Period.

Same goes for social media. It's all bullshit.

My advice to people who want to be active in politics is to start local and work up from there. That really makes the most impact on your everyday life.

None of us can do anything about what goes on in DC because nobody in DC gives a shit about us - until the Novembers roll around every couple of years.

Screw them. 

Act local. Act positive. Make a difference.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 18, 2022, 03:59:02 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2022, 03:38:18 PM

All of these "news" channels are about one thing and one thing only. Ratings.

They say outrageous things to get people riled up, and people do for some reason. People need to stop watching this crap and do something else for "news" other than listen to someone rant.

That goes for Tucker too. It's all evil and it's all divisive. Period.

Same goes for social media. It's all bullshit.

My advice to people who want to be active in politics is to start local and work up from there. That really makes the most impact on your everyday life.

None of us can do anything about what goes on in DC because nobody in DC gives a shit about us - until the Novembers roll around every couple of years.

Screw them.

Act local. Act positive. Make a difference.

great advice all around. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 18, 2022, 04:12:25 PM

this is beyond funny.....Exxon Mobil....top 10 ESG S&P 500 company for the environment and society...Tesla not....:043:

It gets worse....5 oil & gas companies were added from same index while Tesla was removed....:043:

https://fortune.com/2022/05/18/tesla-sp-esg-index-exxon-elon-musk/

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1526958110023245829?s=20&t=RSqCulVb963VHkk3t7Wntw

https://twitter.com/facts_tesla/status/1526947152861093888?s=20&t=RSqCulVb963VHkk3t7Wntw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 18, 2022, 05:08:45 PM

Sweden and Finland formally submit application to join NATO. Turkey moved today to immediately block discussions on accepting those applications.

Word War III may just not start if Erodgan can block it for good. NATO expansion requires every member agreeing to it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 18, 2022, 05:11:36 PM

I also think it's really stupid and dangerous that Finland and Sweden are rushing to NATO and that the whole process has been completely undemocratic. 

They should've put it up to direct vote for the people of those countries to decide. Not opinion polls or research or focus groups. 

Put it on a ballot- and let the people of those countries decide. Period.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 18, 2022, 05:16:05 PM

Croatian President Zoran Milanovic says that Croatia will block Finland and Sweden from joining NATO.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2022, 05:19:18 PM

These little countries swinging some dick is pretty funny in itself. 

Comedy gold.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 18, 2022, 05:19:44 PM

BTW...it took Greece TWELVE YEARS to allow North Macedonia into NATO. Over a name spat. Yeah, that's literally it. A name spat. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 18, 2022, 05:26:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2022, 05:19:18 PM

These little countries swinging some dick is pretty funny in itself.

Comedy gold.

which is why none of them should've been allowed in, in the first place. 

Turkey isn't a little country however- and they are a much bigger and richer country than either Sweden or Finland- they are nearly a NATO OG (since 1952) and they are FAR more important to NATO than either of those two Nordic countries- for a lot of reasons. Obviously....Black Sea, Straits of Bosphorus, and Mediterranean Sea and all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 18, 2022, 08:07:22 PM

Fear was and is the element required.  I would have thought it would have been the UN not NATO, but I guess it's all the same... what's in a name? 

Politicians ought to have the most boring jobs in the world.  We see them seek supervisory positions instead of the management jobs they actually are.  The executive branch is more a leadership/supervisory role, but the rest are freakin clerks.  No more.  Except that they've made a soap opera over it and developed contingents of fan bases... theyve elevated themselves to something akin to the WWE.  ..... and we watch it as if its some sort of smart and informed persons subject exclusively and accuse our opposition of being dumb or lacking information.... and set out to fix that... losing friends and creating separations that may or may not heal along the way.

We're friggin ALL dumb.  We let this happen.  Worse, we let them do this- the media realizes how vital the contest is to their success.  So they do not a thing but toss fuel on a fire.  

The problem is this isn't a game.  People of other nations and people of this nation are at irreconcilable differences and are willing to kill because of the games they play.... and we play. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 18, 2022, 10:37:45 PM

Whoops

https://twitter.com/GaryParrishCBS/status/1527097903386349568?t=DFlFwTYAKDfv48P4hxh3_g&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 18, 2022, 10:42:38 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on May 18, 2022, 08:07:22 PM

Fear was and is the element required.  I would have thought it would have been the UN not NATO, but I guess it's all the same... what's in a name?

Politicians ought to have the most boring jobs in the world.  We see them seek supervisory positions instead of the management jobs they actually are.  The executive branch is more a leadership/supervisory role, but the rest are freakin clerks.  No more.  Except that they've made a soap opera over it and developed contingents of fan bases... theyve elevated themselves to something akin to the WWE.  ..... and we watch it as if its some sort of smart and informed persons subject exclusively and accuse our opposition of being dumb or lacking information.... and set out to fix that... losing friends and creating separations that may or may not heal along the way.

We're friggin ALL dumb.  We let this happen.  Worse, we let them do this- the media realizes how vital the contest is to their success.  So they do not a thing but toss fuel on a fire. 

The problem is this isn't a game.  People of other nations and people of this nation are at irreconcilable differences and are willing to kill because of the games they play.... and we play.

The proposal of not allowing any US representatives, or senators, to seek higher office, I find intriguing. As repulsed as I am by career politicians, I think I might find the new breed of representatives, from both parties, who are purely seeking a national brand to seek higher office, worse

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 18, 2022, 10:43:41 PM

I should also add how much I think closed primaries are fueling this fire, in the current climate. Pennsylvania just rejected every rational option, because no rational voter was allowed to participate in the primaries

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 18, 2022, 10:54:26 PM

Quote from: ELA on May 18, 2022, 10:43:41 PM

I should also add how much I think closed primaries are fueling this fire, in the current climate. Pennsylvania just rejected every rational option, because no rational voter was allowed to participate in the primaries

Do you know why they have closed primaries

Its to keep the opposing party from choosing the candidate they want to run against

Now Im not saying I like closed primaries but I understand why they exist

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 18, 2022, 11:00:47 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 18, 2022, 10:54:26 PM

Do you know why they have closed primaries

Its to keep the opposing party from choosing the candidate they want to run against

Now Im not saying I like closed primaries but I understand why they exist

Because they're parties and the candidate is beholden to the party above all else, it hardly matters which candidate is selected then elected.  It matters to the candidate only because they get to be the rich one.... for us mere plebs,  it doesn't make a bit of difference.  

Tell me again how parties and organized crime are different? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 18, 2022, 11:35:01 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 18, 2022, 10:54:26 PM

Do you know why they have closed primaries

Its to keep the opposing party from choosing the candidate they want to run against

Now Im not saying I like closed primaries but I understand why they exist

Except when the last representative resigned, as a pro-lifer who had paid his mistress for an abortion, and the parties were allowed to appoint their candidate, they each selected a centrist candidate who would have never survived a primary.

We've reached a point where the establishment is actually all that is saving us from the fringe. And both fringes are scary as hell

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 19, 2022, 08:25:41 AM

I would prefer that they eliminate the primaries all together and choose candidates the way they used to do it. Let the parties decide who they want to run and put them on the Nov ballots. The primaries are nothing but a show anyway. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 19, 2022, 08:27:42 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 19, 2022, 08:25:41 AM

I would prefer that they eliminate the primaries all together and choose candidates the way they used to do it. Let the parties decide who they want to run and put them on the Nov ballots. The primaries are nothing but a show anyway.

I mean that has its own issues, but at this point, it's better than this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2022, 08:36:35 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 19, 2022, 08:25:41 AM

I would prefer that they eliminate the primaries all together and choose candidates the way they used to do it. Let the parties decide who they want to run and put them on the Nov ballots. The primaries are nothing but a show anyway.

Big waste of money too.

We could talk about the 17th Amendment here too, but I'm conflicted on that.

I mean, some states are corrupt to the core and having the state legislatures choose a Senator invites even more corruption. People would be buying and selling Senate seats (looking at you, Illinois).

Anybody with ideas on how to get back to that process? Term limits in state legislatures might be the answer. Not sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 19, 2022, 08:42:48 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 18, 2022, 04:12:25 PM

this is beyond funny.....Exxon Mobil....top 10 ESG S&P 500 company for the environment and society...Tesla not....:043:

It gets worse....5 oil & gas companies were added from same index while Tesla was removed....:043:

While that may be ridiculous so is your man crush on ELON FFS.There is plenty wrong with Electric cars,like perhaps the grid getting crushed by fools with an ideology.I got news for those slappies the only way to supply this nonsense is Nuclear and that opens another bag of snakes. And since our Federal Government seems to want to fund every country that really doesn't give a shit about the USA they nead to stop that also and pay attention to this country.The answer IMHO lies with mass transit or the quote at the bottom of the page


https://www.visualcapitalist.com/how-much-oil-electric-vehicle/
For every 10% in weight reduction, the fuel economy of a car improves roughly 5% to 7%. EV's need to achieve weight reductions because the battery packs that power them can weigh over 1000 lbs, requiring more power. Today, plastics and polymers are used for hundreds of individual parts in an electric vehicle.

https://www.inverse.com/article/51486-electric-cars-demand-better-infrastructure
American drivers log about 3 trillion miles (https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/pressroom/fhwa1704.cfm) per year, consuming more than 170 billion gallons (https://www.bts.gov/content/motor-vehicle-fuel-consumption-and-travel) of gasoline and diesel in the process. Converting all those road miles to electricity would place new demands on the nation’s system (https://www.inverse.com/article/41526-tesla-electric-vehicles-cars-laws) for producing and delivering electricity.As part of a major energy infrastructure study (https://energy.utexas.edu/policy/eiof), we are seeking (https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&oi=ao&user=1B6nEBEAAAAJ) to understand how an increase in electric vehicles (EVs) (https://energy.utexas.edu/about/staff/todd-davidson) might change how energy (https://energy.utexas.edu/about/staff/dave-tuttle) is supplied and consumed (https://www.researchgate.net/scientific-contributions/2008770532_Kazunori_Nagasawa). So far, we have figured out the impact of electric vehicles will depend on where you live and when they are charged.
The US electric grid (https://www.inverse.com/article/18949-electrical-grid-future-of-renewable-energy-transmission-gretchen-bakke) has continually evolved to accommodate new demands throughout the last century (https://theconversation.com/energy-transitions-are-nothing-new-but-the-one-underway-is-unprecedented-and-urgent-104821). But if the nation’s vehicles were to rapidly become electric, the grid would need to change faster. Depending on local driving habits and the grid infrastructure that’s already in place, our analysis shows that EVs will have different impacts in different regions.

Since Texas and California consume more electricity than any other states (https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/unitedstates/), they provide a good snapshot of what a future filled with electric vehicles might look like. In both cases, an increase in EVs would drive consumption higher, with the potential to strain local infrastructure.

https://www.treehugger.com/whats-carbon-footprint-making-tesla-battery-4857444
The factory is in the middle of nowhere, really -- 23 miles from the nearest city of any size, Reno, Nevada. If we assume that this is the average distance workers are commuting (and it is likely a lot farther), that the cars are powered by gasoline, and that they are average size, then according to the EPA they pump out about 411 grams of CO2 per mile or 18.9 kilograms per round trip. Multiply that by 3,000 and you have 57 tonnes of CO2 generated every day just by the the workers driving to the factory. The average car puts out 4.7 tonnes per year. So every day that the Gigafactory workers drive to work to make batteries for carbon-saving electric cars, they generate as much CO2 as 12 conventional cars do in a year.


Commenters also noted in our post on hydrogen powered cars that there is a significant environmental impact in the mining of the lithium, cobalt, and nickel that go into the batteries. Lithium is actually not so bad; most of it is extracted from brines that are evaporated by the sun. According to the Financial Times, (https://www.ft.com/content/8342ec6c-5fde-11e7-91a7-502f7ee26895)

Quote

Chile’s SQM, one of the largest producers of lithium from brine, said more than 97 per cent of its energy comes from the sun, and other types of energy is only used for pumping and transporting the brine to its plants. It estimates it produces 1 tonne of C02 [sic] per tonne of lithium carbonate produced.

However, more and more lithium is being sourced through hard rock mining and its footprint is increasing. Electric cars still have a huge physical and carbon footprint and, while they are obviously better than ICE powered cars and probably better than hydrogen powered, vehicles, they are still cars.


✔✔✔  As Alex Steffen noted years ago: (https://www.treehugger.com/my-other-car-is-a-bright-green-city-a-second-look-4849404)

Quote

The answer to the problem of the American car is not under the hood, and we're not going to find a bright green future by looking there.... There is a direct relationship between the kinds of places we live, the transportation choices we have, and how much we drive. The best car-related innovation we have is not to improve the car, but eliminate the need to drive it everywhere we go.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 19, 2022, 09:18:53 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2022, 08:36:35 AM

Anybody with ideas on how to get back to that process? Term limits in state legislatures might be the answer. Not sure.

Term limits in the Legislature are not the answer. Ask California about that. 

Mandatory retirement ages would be far more effective. Both parties MUST get younger. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2022, 09:30:32 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on May 19, 2022, 09:18:53 AM

Term limits in the Legislature are not the answer. Ask California about that.

Mandatory retirement ages would be far more effective. Both parties MUST get younger.

I'm talking about having the state legislatures choose the states' Senators. How can that process not be corrupt, if the the state reps and senators are lifers?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 19, 2022, 09:50:40 AM

Quote from: ELA on May 18, 2022, 10:37:45 PM

Whoops

https://twitter.com/GaryParrishCBS/status/1527097903386349568?t=DFlFwTYAKDfv48P4hxh3_g&s=19

the scoundrel finally told on Dick Cheney after all these years...about time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 19, 2022, 10:21:59 AM

Good Post,Cheney is a puss sack on the hind side of humanity - Dubya just a clueless enabler

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on May 19, 2022, 10:56:37 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2022, 08:36:35 AM

Big waste of money too.

We could talk about the 17th Amendment here too, but I'm conflicted on that.

I mean, some states are corrupt to the core and having the state legislatures choose a Senator invites even more corruption. People would be buying and selling Senate seats (looking at you, Illinois).

Anybody with ideas on how to get back to that process? Term limits in state legislatures might be the answer. Not sure.

I am not the least bit conflicted on this.  The States lost any power that they had against the Federal government with the 17th amendment.  Senators use to be concerned with states rights, etc. now not so much. The 17th amendment basically repealed the 10th amendment or at least it lost its power. 

The house is for the people, the senate was (should be) for the states. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2022, 11:10:52 AM

No corruption concerns?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 19, 2022, 12:19:18 PM

NBA is about to return to China state TV, after a ban there, which I believe was over that Houston Rockets GM tweeting support of Hong Kong- when China decided to illegally take and occupy Hong Kong and destroy self-rule and freedom in that territory.

NBA makes about $5 billion a year off China, and the 40 principal owners of the 30 NBA teams have about $10 billion of their own $$$$ invested in other businesses/joint ventures inside China.

NBA should grow a sack and tell China to f**k off once and for all.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33938932/nba-owners-mum-china-relationship-more-10-billion-invested-there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 19, 2022, 01:09:10 PM

this is a fascinating discussion with Peter Zeihan. Latest census data in China shows they've overcounted their population by 100 million, and that China's population could half in the next 45 years, and even as soon as 2050. A one child policy for decades will do that to ya. 

China also, on any given month prints 2-5x the amount of currency that the US does- and their currency isn't linked to dozens of others nor used in international trade at all like the US dollar- which is the standard for international trade. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-Y8Gh12ao0

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 19, 2022, 01:31:53 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2022, 11:10:52 AM

No corruption concerns?

Could it be any worse than what we currently have in DC? Look at the DC and the surrounding counties. The 4 richest counties per capita in the country. Talk about corruption, it probably does not get any worse than DC.

Would there be corruption in the state legislatures? There already is I would assume. Forget Illinois, there were a few in Ohio that got caught up in a pay for play scheme with Ohio energy companies. 

The point is that the legislature could put Senators in place that would vote in the states interest instead of Chuck Schumer or Mitch McConnell's or the Democrats and Republicans interests. As it currently stands, we have an Ohio Senator that basically votes the way Chuck Schumer tells him to and one that votes the way the Republican establishment demands. I would prefer to be able to call my state rep and say that these idiots need to be recalled and replaced as they are not voting in Ohio's interest. And if I don't see any movement from him/her, I will support someone that will get the job done. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2022, 01:52:13 PM

Getting these clowns to essentially vote themselves out would be a problem. They taste the power and they want to keep it.

The other problem would be getting 3/4 of the states to ratify. 18 States are controlled by D legislatures. 30 are controlled by R.

If the states were to choose their senators, there would be 60 R's in the Senate today.

D states are not voting for this.

Repeal the 17th Amendment - American Thinker (https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/09/repeal_the_17th_amendment.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 19, 2022, 01:55:15 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2022, 01:52:13 PM

Getting these clowns to essentially vote themselves out would be a problem. They taste the power and they want to keep it.

The other problem would be getting 3/4 of the states to ratify. 18 States are controlled by D legislatures. 30 are controlled by R.

If the states were to choose their senators, there would be 60 R's in the Senate today.

D states are not voting for this.

Repeal the 17th Amendment - American Thinker (https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/09/repeal_the_17th_amendment.html)

some very good points

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 19, 2022, 01:57:26 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2022, 01:52:13 PM

Getting these clowns to essentially vote themselves out would be a problem. They taste the power and they want to keep it.

The other problem would be getting 3/4 of the states to ratify. 18 States are controlled by D legislatures. 30 are controlled by R.

If the states were to choose their senators, there would be 60 R's in the Senate today.

D states are not voting for this.

Repeal the 17th Amendment - American Thinker (https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/09/repeal_the_17th_amendment.html)

If each party got one per state, and we kept the filibuster, it would actually force those clowns to compromise

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 19, 2022, 01:59:05 PM

Putting in my online grocery order for the week, it no longer provides the prices on meat or produce, saying prices will be determined at day of pickup, even 24 hours out from pikcup slot

Just doing normal grocery shopping is like ordering steak at a white tablecloth restaurant at this point

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2022, 02:03:50 PM

Quote from: ELA on May 19, 2022, 01:59:05 PM

Putting in my online grocery order for the week, it no longer provides the prices on meat or produce, saying prices will be determined at day of pickup, even 24 hours out from pikcup slot

Just doing normal grocery shopping is like ordering steak at a white tablecloth restaurant at this point

Yeah, last week I went to Publix for some things. I spent $150 and didn't even buy any MEAT (except from the deli). No booze either.

That was just basics like eggs, milk, produce, etc. And it probably cost me an additional $10 to get there and back.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2022, 02:06:11 PM

WHAT ABOUT US?!?!?

$40 Billion to help Ukraine. This is unreal.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-aid-bill-set-to-pass-senate-with-bipartisan-support-11652972377?st=g42pnzubstcr1ut&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 19, 2022, 03:20:17 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2022, 01:52:13 PM

If the states were to choose their senators, there would be 60 R's in the Senate today.

There is already one chamber of right-wing reactionaries in the federal government. There doesn't need to be 2.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 19, 2022, 03:21:03 PM

Quote from: ELA on May 19, 2022, 01:59:05 PM

Putting in my online grocery order for the week, it no longer provides the prices on meat or produce, saying prices will be determined at day of pickup, even 24 hours out from pikcup slot

Just doing normal grocery shopping is like ordering steak at a white tablecloth restaurant at this point

Bidenflation for ya. Elections have consequences, as they say.

I have no clue how regular working class and low wage folks are surviving right now to be honest with you. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 19, 2022, 03:25:20 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on May 19, 2022, 03:20:17 PM

There is already one chamber of right-wing reactionaries in the federal government. There doesn't need to be 2.

there is only one wing in the federal govt- the right wing. The Dems are not left-wing in the slightest. That's a funny joke. Sure, you have people like Bernie, AOC, and the Fraud Squad who claim to be "left-wing" - but they have little to no power- and they literally never use their leverage to exercise power when opportunities to do so arise. They do whatever the mainstream of the party tells them. Look at AOC's voting record- she always falls right in lock-step on the major issues to whatever Nancy Pelosi tells her to. Always. Every. Single. Time. Without fail. And why? Because it's self-dealing, she wants committee seats and she wants to keep her spot in the House and she wants fundraising $$$ from Pelosi and she doesn't want Pelosi to prop up a competitor in her district in a primary and run someone to the left of AOC. The AOC faction and the "left-wing" is nothing but complete performative theater.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 19, 2022, 03:32:10 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2022, 02:06:11 PM

WHAT ABOUT US?!?!?

$40 Billion to help Ukraine. This is unreal.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-aid-bill-set-to-pass-senate-with-bipartisan-support-11652972377?st=g42pnzubstcr1ut&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Yeah, it's really pathetic, sad and disgusting. But just goes to show you just how corrupt things are in DC and how out of touch the elite who run the federal govt really truly are.

Kinda funny how almost immediately after the US gets done spending roughly $50+ billion a year in Afghanistan- they are now spending $54 billion in Ukraine in about two months. There is no oversight in this aid package, it's SEVEN BILLION dollars more than what Biden administration was even asking for, there's roughly only $760 million allocated for "food support" - MOST of this money is going to weapons/military spending (something like 60%) the next largest chunk goes to paying salaries and pensions of Ukraine govt- one of THE MOST CORRUPT governments on earth. There is less than 0 % chance huge portions of this money will not get stolen. And the military aid allows for shift of weapons being delivered to go from "defensive" to "offensive" - this will just prolong the war, not end it. Corporate welfare cash grab by Raytheon & Friends and the rest of the MIC. Biden giving speeches at missile factories. Lol. 

Everyone needs to take a look at this video....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3pnFR7DeZA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 19, 2022, 03:40:21 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 19, 2022, 03:25:20 PM

there is only one wing in the federal govt- the right wing. The Dems are not left-wing in the slightest. That's a funny joke. Sure, you have people like Bernie, AOC, and the Fraud Squad who claim to be "left-wing" - but they have little to no power- and they literally never use their leverage to exercise power when opportunities to do so arise. They do whatever the mainstream of the party tells them. Look at AOC's voting record- she always falls right in lock-step on the major issues to whatever Nancy Pelosi tells her to. Always. Every. Single. Time. Without fail. And why?

Because the alternative is worse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 19, 2022, 03:48:28 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 19, 2022, 03:40:21 PM

Because the alternative is worse.

Not sure I agree 100%. Obviously I think the girl is a complete and utter moron, but some of what she campaigned on, I kinda agree. She was "anti-war" and campaigned on getting a floor vote for medicare for all. Ok. I can get down with that. Not sure medicare for all is the answer- but healthcare in this country needs SERIOUS reform. This is the richest country in the history of the planet, and you still have 30+ Million people without access to healthcare (roughly 10% of the population). Insurance and drug prices are out of f**king control and increasing every single year with no end in sight. The #1 cause of people filing for bankruptcy in this country? Medical bills. Shit HAS to change. It just has too. She could've pushed for a floor vote on medicare for all- she didn't- campaign promise broken. She was talking like she's anti-war- which OK I'm all for that. War should be a last resort, period. And we should fight OUR wars, not other countries wars. And she pretended to be all "anti-war" - and did she just vote against this massive $40 billion weapons package to Ukraine? Nope. Not a single Dem did.

Broad claims she wants to "defund the police!" - then turns around and votes to expand the Capitol Police and expand their budget by $2 billion more and turn them into a spying agency with field offices all over the country.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 19, 2022, 03:51:34 PM

biggest purveyors of misinformation? mainstream media. How a Bush-Cheney ghoul became a darling of the MSNBC crowd....I'll never know.

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1527367847134998530?s=20&t=WjyF0AELOtL84y5d9QK8yQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 19, 2022, 04:12:00 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 19, 2022, 01:31:53 PM

Could it be any worse than what we currently have in DC?

Probably?

State legislatures have a few issues:
-they are in better position to build their own election maps, which allows for power consolidation.
-States tend to shift less individually than than the overall electorate. This means more entrenched power structures and minority parties that get weirder to gain attention
-As much as we lament the state of media, there’s at least more attention on DC because there are fewer people and they’re more high profile. Tracking the shenanigans of South Georgia state senators gets little attention and there are few resources to do it (thus corruption can blossom unseen)

This is not to say the current system is good, but simply assuming that trusting smaller time pols and their judgement seems dicey. (Plus appointed jobs breed patronage)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on May 19, 2022, 04:18:42 PM

test post

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 19, 2022, 04:19:41 PM

Quote from: grillrat on May 19, 2022, 04:18:42 PM

test post

Pest tost

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on May 19, 2022, 04:22:15 PM

No, having weird trouble posting.  Trying to reply with a quote from one of Nubbz posts a few pages back, and anything over a few sentences seems to be timing out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 19, 2022, 04:23:48 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 19, 2022, 04:12:00 PM

-they are in better position to build their own election maps, which allows for power consolidation.

See Wisconsin. Democrats got ~53 percent of the statewide vote in elections for the Assembly in 2018. This sizable win yielded them 34 of 99 seats in the chamber.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2022, 04:29:45 PM

Quote from: grillrat on May 19, 2022, 04:22:15 PM

No, having weird trouble posting.  Trying to reply with a quote from one of Nubbz posts a few pages back, and anything over a few sentences seems to be timing out.

Hmm. Maybe @Drew4UTk (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1)  can take a look at this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on May 19, 2022, 04:38:38 PM

Yeah, I've tried several times for an hour now.  Can't get any post over two lines to stick.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on May 19, 2022, 04:48:58 PM

Response to Nubbz post about Tesla battery factory.  Author complains that 3000 employees are making massive amount of CO per day, equivalent of 12 cars generated per year.  Do the math:  3000 employees / 250 work days = 12.  So factory employees are making the exact same amount of CO they would at any other job.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on May 19, 2022, 04:49:18 PM

Woo Hoo.  Got a three line post to stick....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 19, 2022, 05:01:31 PM

Quote from: grillrat on May 19, 2022, 04:38:38 PM

Yeah, I've tried several times for an hour now.  Can't get any post over two lines to stick.

perhaps the posts have too much political garbage incuded?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 19, 2022, 05:04:19 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 19, 2022, 03:51:34 PM

biggest purveyors of misinformation? mainstream media. How a Bush-Cheney ghoul became a darling of the MSNBC crowd....I'll never know.

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1527367847134998530?s=20&t=WjyF0AELOtL84y5d9QK8yQ

She's hot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 19, 2022, 05:32:36 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 19, 2022, 05:04:19 PM

She's hot.

evil women usually are.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 19, 2022, 05:34:06 PM

Quote from: grillrat on May 19, 2022, 04:22:15 PM

No, having weird trouble posting.  Trying to reply with a quote from one of Nubbz posts a few pages back, and anything over a few sentences seems to be timing out.

About 3 hrs back it was fading in/out & hanging in hyper space but is fine now

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 19, 2022, 05:36:50 PM

Quote from: grillrat on May 19, 2022, 04:38:38 PM

Yeah, I've tried several times for an hour now.  Can't get any post over two lines to stick.

When the site was hit last week it sent information to caches that the site no longer existed, and told the caches not to check back in for an update for a long long time.  

Some ISPs apparently still have bad caches.  They're just not updated with news that "rumor of our demise has been much exaggerated ".. 

All you can do on your end is hold shift key and hit refresh, and hope the ISP cache is replaced with a good one.  It'll definitely clear the cache on your computer doing that, but isn't reliable to do it on switches/hubs/routers the ISP uses. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 19, 2022, 05:55:31 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2022, 02:06:11 PM

WHAT ABOUT US?!?!?

$40 Billion to help Ukraine. This is unreal.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-aid-bill-set-to-pass-senate-with-bipartisan-support-11652972377?st=g42pnzubstcr1ut&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

It's getting close to declaring war on these assholes,left how much money in Afganistan. Nightly they are bringing in immigrants by plane and bus,this asshole Homeland security secretary swings open the door - he should be immediately arrested as a threat to the citizens of this country.They are saying at least 700,000 came in no backgound checks some are definately in the child sex trade,drug and gun runners,no checks.The immigrants called the police because news teams were following them around

https://youtu.be/iNJYQ-DTgqk

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 19, 2022, 06:52:51 PM

"lefties" AOC and the Fraud Squad coming through again for the Dems.....

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1527421848572641298?s=20&t=J3Q90JQ7ZCH8j_v6Y1FH6g

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 19, 2022, 07:08:09 PM

All of this crap is what makes me want Bernie actually in the White House.  Not because he's a lefty or whatever, but because neither side wanted him to win.  He'd be a threat to the big-money pillars of the corruption found in most every aspect of our society. 
.
I know the odds of any meaningful change would be stacked against him and his efforts, but for everyone who actually run things to be that afraid of him told me something.
.
If you have a name of someone like that who is more your flavor, insert them in.  I'm tired of this bullshit D or R garbage that keeps the rich richer and takes advantage of the distractedness/apathy/ignorance of the masses.  Sorry, but no SCOUS judge should be easily considered either extreme.  That's garbage, too.  
.
You want to know how the top country in the world cycles away?  Look around.  We're slaves to the perpetual growth, quarterly earnings expectation.  Whores for he said-she said horseshit "entertainment."  As long as the status quo is maintained, that's all that's needed for those in power to keep all the power.  Don't like something?  March.  They'll wait.  Vote.  They'll yawn.  We're just picking from the 2 approved candidates they allow us to.
.
It's all broken crap.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 19, 2022, 07:29:11 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 19, 2022, 07:08:09 PM

All of this crap is what makes me want Bernie actually in the White House.  Not because he's a lefty or whatever, but because neither side wanted him to win.  He'd be a threat to the big-money pillars of the corruption found in most every aspect of our society. 
.
I know the odds of any meaningful change would be stacked against him and his efforts, but for everyone who actually run things to be that afraid of him told me something.
.
If you have a name of someone like that who is more your flavor, insert them in.  I'm tired of this bullshit D or R garbage that keeps the rich richer and takes advantage of the distractedness/apathy/ignorance of the masses.  Sorry, but no SCOUS judge should be easily considered either extreme.  That's garbage, too. 
.
You want to know how the top country in the world cycles away?  Look around.  We're slaves to the perpetual growth, quarterly earnings expectation.  Whores for he said-she said horseshit "entertainment."  As long as the status quo is maintained, that's all that's needed for those in power to keep all the power.  Don't like something?  March.  They'll wait.  Vote.  They'll yawn.  We're just picking from the 2 approved candidates they allow us to.
.
It's all broken crap.

I was with you on Bernie, until he decided to completely sell out and stump for the mainline establishment wing of the party. I wanted him because I like you knew he could never get all the things he wanted done- some of which I disagree with- but that he might be able to get some change. You're right, it's broken. It's not working how it should, not sure what the solution is- but we need some fast.

You're 100% correct, because it's not one party of the other, it's both of them. And both of them are sold out to monied interests. It's just weird to me that R's seem to have the label or reputation as being the big business friendly money whores who sold themselves- when D's are even bigger hoes. This tweet from that lesbian over at MSNBC Chris Hayes is a perfect example. And it's pretty wild actually how much he's changed completely over the years when you consider he wrote a book before he got that MSNBC gig called Twilight of the Elites in which he talks about "cognitive capture" and says in it that when people get into elite circles and institutions their thinking, opinions, and behavior gets "captured" by those circles or institutions and change. Crazy thing is- it happened to him. And his tweet is just funny....insinuating that Dems are tough on big business or billionaires...when they are not now nor have ever been. Consider that Obama was a Wall Street favorite in both elections, and in 2016 billionaires donated 20:1 to the Clinton campaign over the Trump campaign, and in 2020 Wall Street firms donated nearly 5x as much to the Biden campaign than they did to the Trump campaign.

https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/1527030264496537602?s=20&t=A5ozoWvr6i_r_8j80PmrWg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 19, 2022, 07:58:20 PM

neither side wanted Trump in the White house, but it was a lesser evil than Hillary

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 19, 2022, 09:03:16 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 19, 2022, 07:58:20 PM

neither side wanted Trump in the White house, but it was a lesser evil than Hillary

I definitely agree with that. Lots of people did not. Trump was actually good in that he put an ugly face on the Empire. People actually paid attention and were not asleep. For example- when they finally got around to talking about the kids in cages thing- welp, his predecessor Mr. Obama built those cages. When they railed against Trump for his stance on immigration and deportation- welp, his predecessor Mr. Obama deported more people in his first term than Trump. A lot more. Trump often got in trouble with the establishment for saying the things out-loud that the President is not allowed to say. Example; when he was interviewed during the Super Bowl half-time and asked about Putin being a killer and Trump said something along the lines of "ya and you think we're so innocent, we're killers too" - true statement in actual fact. I actually enjoyed a President being honest about the Empire for once.

Hillary is legit sociopath. Like a truly evil bitch. Libya was her pet project. Syria would've been A LOT worse had she been elected President. She's much more intelligent, cunning, manipulative- she's a true believer- and far more dangerous wielding power than someone like Trump. Trump believes in pretty much nothing- he's shallow. Trump tried to go against the military industrial complex and the "intelligence community" when he was running- but as soon as he got into office they pretty much rolled him. He was able to pull US out of Somalia (and gee who would've guessed- uner Biden- we're going right back in there) and he avoided making Syria a greater war and full scale invasion (which Hillary 100% would've pushed for) - and he did try like hell to pull out of Afghanistan- even if his generals were going around his back to prevent that as were scum like Liz Cheney.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 20, 2022, 07:22:56 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 19, 2022, 05:32:36 PM

evil women usually are.

Or not.

(https://i.imgur.com/EQidRy3.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 20, 2022, 08:14:31 AM

This dipshit needs to resign from her seat. NOW.

Dem Rep. Beatty blames White supremacy for Dallas Korean hair salon shooting, but suspect is Black | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rep-beatty-blames-white-supremacy-dallas-korean-salon-shooting-suspect-black)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 20, 2022, 08:44:21 AM

HA! someone in the comment section
"The Ministry of Truth approved her message. Signed Mary Poppins"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 20, 2022, 09:45:39 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 20, 2022, 08:14:31 AM

This dipshit needs to resign from her seat. NOW.

Dem Rep. Beatty blames White supremacy for Dallas Korean hair salon shooting, but suspect is Black | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rep-beatty-blames-white-supremacy-dallas-korean-salon-shooting-suspect-black)

Common.  I have seen this numerous times in the last year.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 20, 2022, 09:51:05 AM

The President went to Buffalo, which was fine. He said some things he shouldn't have, which was not fine.


Why didn't he go to Waukesha after that "SUV" killed 6 people during a Christmas parade?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 20, 2022, 10:23:17 AM

This used to be a great neighborhood to hang out in (River North and Mag Mile - 18th district).

Near North Side shooting: 2 killed, 8 wounded near McDonald’s in Chicago - Chicago Sun-Times (suntimes.com) (https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2022/5/19/23131980/chicago-mass-shooting-2022-near-north-side-mcdonalds)

Shootings have been spiking downtown all year. They are up 225% in the 18th District, which includes the McDonald’s. In the 1st District, which covers parts of downtown and the Loop, shootings are up 100%.

(https://i.imgur.com/IESIB81.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 20, 2022, 12:36:44 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 20, 2022, 09:51:05 AM

The President went to Buffalo, which was fine. He said some things he shouldn't have, which was not fine.


Why didn't he go to Waukesha after that "SUV" killed 6 people during a Christmas parade?

The Waukesha incident did not fit the narrative. And neither did the subway shooting in NYC. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 21, 2022, 06:44:09 AM

Millennium Park shootout: Man, security guard exchange gunfire as more violence erupts at city’s premier downtown park - Chicago Sun-Times (suntimes.com) (https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2022/5/20/23133356/millennium-park-shootout-gunfire-violence-police-guns-security-curfew-cook-county-sheriff)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 21, 2022, 08:39:41 AM

really enjoyed visiting Chicago back in 2007 or 2008 with my daughters

not going back

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 21, 2022, 08:40:56 AM

Why did I stay up till 3 AM last night? What does that accomplish?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 21, 2022, 08:48:44 AM

Nothing at all?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 21, 2022, 09:29:49 AM

watching NBA?  NHL?? MLB???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 21, 2022, 09:49:43 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 21, 2022, 09:29:49 AM

watching NBA?  NHL?? MLB???

A friend in a town an hour away was having a going away party before a move. I wanted to be a part of that. Ran into other friends, went to an old haunt. Before you know it, I'm deciding if I want to go to sleep at 1:45 on a friend's couch or 3 am in my own bed. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 21, 2022, 09:54:25 AM

How are you feeling?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 21, 2022, 10:36:12 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 21, 2022, 09:54:25 AM

How are you feeling?

Better than I should. A nap might be in the cards. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 22, 2022, 10:24:54 AM

The U.S.’s wealthiest billionaires are mostly concentrated within just a couple of industries: finance and investments, and technology. Other wealthy sectors include food and drink, fashion and retail, and media and entertainment. Stacker compiled a list of the richest billionaires that are residents of Nebraska, using data from Forbes. Billionaires are ranked by net worth as of April 30. Forbes lists 3 billionaires in Nebraska.

#3. Daniel Hirschfeld

- Net worth: $1.3 billion (#2,208 wealthiest in the world)

- Residence: Kearney, Nebraska

- Source of wealth: fashion retail

#2. Henry Davis

- Net worth: $2.3 billion (#1,329 wealthiest in the world)

- Residence: Omaha, Nebraska

- Source of wealth: beef processing

#1. Warren Buffett

- Net worth: $116.6 billion (#6 wealthiest in the world)

- Residence: Omaha, Nebraska

- Source of wealth: Berkshire Hathaway, Self Made

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 22, 2022, 10:40:32 AM

Evidently Warren not a "Skers Fan? Or maybe he just has principles

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 22, 2022, 11:03:35 AM

he donates to the academic side of the house

if he gives to the athletic side, it's on the down low

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 22, 2022, 11:06:19 AM

FORE!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 22, 2022, 11:08:22 AM

We had the most rain we've had last nite in quite sometime

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 22, 2022, 11:30:20 AM

Caught a break of sorts.

Was supposed to go to some kind of concert yesterday. We caught a 5 pm storm that scared a friend (or his wife) from going out. 

This AM, he pops COVID positive. Not that this would change my lifestyle much, but I don’t have to go through the rigmarole. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 22, 2022, 11:32:24 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 22, 2022, 11:30:20 AM

Caught a break of sorts.

Was supposed to go to some kind of concert yesterday. We caught a 5 pm storm that scared a friend (or his wife) from going out.

This AM, he pops COVID positive. Not that this would change my lifestyle much, but I don’t have to go through the rigmarole.

so how is his condition

is this the friendly Omicron weve grown to love or is it worse

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 22, 2022, 09:14:52 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 22, 2022, 11:32:24 AM

so how is his condition

is this the friendly Omicron weve grown to love or is it worse

I think he's "sick." Not deathly so, but feeling it. 

I wonder if his wife will take advantage to work from home. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 23, 2022, 05:27:43 PM

monkeypox coming to kill us all now

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 24, 2022, 08:44:47 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/P9wE92I.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 24, 2022, 12:09:56 PM

Will have a long story if I get home.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 24, 2022, 12:10:10 PM

Oh, we're ok.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 24, 2022, 12:31:11 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 24, 2022, 08:44:47 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/P9wE92I.png)

That’s the cure. It draws out the monkeys

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 24, 2022, 12:46:28 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 24, 2022, 12:09:56 PM

Will have a long story if I get home.

If?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 24, 2022, 02:08:36 PM

stuck somewhere in Europe

I'm in Kearney, NE, but I'm not stuck, I can leave whenever I want

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 24, 2022, 02:10:46 PM

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/l41YAhtXEh2cJJEXK/200.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 24, 2022, 02:30:13 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 19, 2022, 09:50:40 AM

the scoundrel finally told on Dick Cheney after all these years...about time

And yet he's still coming after W from beyond the grave


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-24/plot-to-kill-bush-in-revenge-for-iraq-war-was-foiled-fbi-says

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 24, 2022, 02:55:02 PM

Wow. That's something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 24, 2022, 05:23:37 PM

Kamala Harris: "When we talk about the children of the community, they are a children of the community".

Jeez thanx Mrs VP that's rivoting would you mind if i share that with the congregation

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 24, 2022, 06:39:13 PM

Some pretty awful news out of Texas. Thoughts with the folks down there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 24, 2022, 06:58:18 PM

It keeps happening and will keep happening, as long as there's assholes out there who BOTH gaslight about the Dems coming for their guns (still waiting for Obama to do that) AND don't see any need for additional mental health funding/legislation to keep weapons out of the hands of these people.
.
No, it's not the gun's fault....but it keeps happening.
You could even suggest it's not the shooter's fault, as no sane person would shoot up a bunch of little kids....but it keeps happening.
Let's see....in Texas.....no waiting period to buy, no license needed to carry, no background check on private sales.  Fucking brilliant.
.
It's going to keep happening unless something changes, guys.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 24, 2022, 07:23:55 PM

Thought we might get more than one post before that. Oh well. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 24, 2022, 07:43:28 PM

I betcha a dollar the deceased and their PARENTS would rather this stop than worry about a lack of respect? on a college football board.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 24, 2022, 09:04:09 PM

Everyone who applies for a gun license should be given a penis pump.  That's all they are truly asking for, without asking for it 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 24, 2022, 09:40:38 PM

Quote from: ELA on May 24, 2022, 09:04:09 PM

Everyone who applies for a gun license should be given a penis pump.  That's all they are truly asking for, without asking for it

thats a really horrible thing to say and you should be ashamed of yourself

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 24, 2022, 09:46:18 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 24, 2022, 07:43:28 PM

I betcha a dollar the deceased and their PARENTS would rather this stop than worry about a lack of respect? on a college football board.

They don't care about anything that happens here. 

You'll shriek about it. Others will shriek back. Folks will mad, nothing will change, et all. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 24, 2022, 10:04:15 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 24, 2022, 09:40:38 PM

thats a really horrible thing to say and you should be ashamed of yourself

I'm not.  I'm ashamed that America can't figure out our gun problem, and kids keep dying because we love guns more than we love them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 24, 2022, 10:59:21 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 24, 2022, 09:46:18 PM

They don't care about anything that happens here.

You'll shriek about it. Others will shriek back. Folks will mad, nothing will change, et all.

That's the problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 24, 2022, 11:00:39 PM

Quote from: ELA on May 24, 2022, 10:04:15 PM

I'm not.  I'm ashamed that America can't figure out our gun problem, and kids keep dying because we love guns more than we love them

you condemned anyone buying a gun which is just stupid

and as far as killing people is concerned we have murdered over 60.000.000 babies from abortion

you folks who speak so high and mighty about how bad gun ownership is should reflect on that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 24, 2022, 11:20:52 PM

Who said anything about abortion or banning guns?  Weird straw man argument

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 24, 2022, 11:33:31 PM

Mental health not being taken seriously is part of the problem. 

120+ guns per 100 Americans is part of the problem. 

The other common thread among all these shooters: gender-based domestic violence. 

https://twitter.com/GeauxGabrielle/status/1529221838261338112?t=RlqX8nrxffVPC0WgddLP3g&s=19

I realize that solving domestic violence is an even bigger issue than the gun problem, but when you follow mass shooters that's where it takes you. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 24, 2022, 11:36:35 PM

Everyone who applies for a gun license should be given a penis pump.  That's all they are truly asking for, without asking for it



Your exact words seem like a blanket statement against gun ownership to me.  By the way theres plenty of females packing also

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 24, 2022, 11:38:38 PM

We'll have the conversations here, people like me and Gopher will say this is wrong and bad and mention the things involved, pointing out that the status quo isn't working and that something needs to change.  People like longhorn will invent a connection to abortions and we'll go back and forth for some pages.
.
.
.
.
And nothing will change.
The status quo reamins.
More little kids will be murdered.
.
.
.
.
Ho hum.
Thoughts and prayers.
.
.
.
.
.
Ain't America great?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 24, 2022, 11:39:36 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 24, 2022, 11:36:35 PM

Everyone who applies for a gun license should be given a penis pump.  That's all they are truly asking for, without asking for it



Your exact words seem like a blanket statement against gun ownership to me.  By the way theres plenty of females packing also

So his post criticized the manhood of gun owners.
.
So we have that versus murdered kids.
Tell us more, snowflake.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 24, 2022, 11:41:17 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 24, 2022, 11:36:35 PM

Everyone who applies for a gun license should be given a penis pump.  That's all they are truly asking for, without asking for it



Your exact words seem like a blanket statement against gun ownership to me.  By the way theres plenty of females packing also

I can have an opinion about what buying a gun is compensating for.  Even when used legitimately and legally 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 24, 2022, 11:41:25 PM

No one who frequents this site wants these things to happen.

But there are 2 groups:  one who says 'this is intolerable and something must change' and one who says 'you ain't taking my guns.'
Yes, I find that disgusting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 24, 2022, 11:41:45 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on May 24, 2022, 11:33:31 PM

Mental health not being taken seriously is part of the problem.

120+ guns per 100 Americans is part of the problem.

The other common thread among all these shooters: gender-based domestic violence.

https://twitter.com/GeauxGabrielle/status/1529221838261338112?t=RlqX8nrxffVPC0WgddLP3g&s=19

I realize that solving domestic violence is an even bigger issue than the gun problem, but when you follow mass shooters that's where it takes you.

I agree with this

so far it appears this nut flew under the radar

but we will know more once the FBI completes their investigation

Questions Ive got are:

Did he obtain his guns legally 

Did he give any indication about this on social media with friends

His actions were the mark of a completely deranged person

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 24, 2022, 11:43:12 PM

Quote from: ELA on May 24, 2022, 11:41:17 PM

I can have an opinion about what buying a gun is compensating for.  Even when used legitimately and legally

yes your allowed to be stupid folks do it all the time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 24, 2022, 11:45:14 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 24, 2022, 11:41:45 PM

Questions Ive got are:

Did he obtain his guns legally

Maybe he went hunting and thought the classroom full of kids was just a family of deer?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 24, 2022, 11:45:25 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 24, 2022, 11:43:12 PM

yes your allowed to be stupid folks do it all the time

And they are still allowed to vote and buy guns.

Even at best it's the only "sport" where the other team doesn't even know they are playing.  Even the Lions could win a Super Bowl if the opponent had no equipment and didn't even know a game was going on

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 24, 2022, 11:47:03 PM

Quote from: ELA on May 24, 2022, 11:45:25 PM

And they are still allowed to vote and buy guns

And procreate.  And parent poorly.  And pass on their horrid idears.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 24, 2022, 11:49:56 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 24, 2022, 11:41:25 PM

No one who frequents this site wants these things to happen.

But there are 2 groups:  one who says 'this is intolerable and something must change' and one who says 'you ain't taking my guns.'
Yes, I find that disgusting.

Youre right and you cant take my guns

If this guy had previously shown what a nut job he was then somebody could be accused of dropping the ball

but so far I dont see any indication of warnings he might have sent out

Tell me wise one what law could we have passed to keep this from happening other then taking all guns away from the American public'

You guys are quick to use the deaths of these people to further your political agenda

The Presidents speech tonight was nothing but divisive 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 24, 2022, 11:53:46 PM

Quote from: ELA on May 24, 2022, 11:45:25 PM

And they are still allowed to vote and buy guns.

Even at best it's the only "sport" where the other team doesn't even know they are playing.  Even the Lions could win a Super Bowl if the opponent had no equipment and didn't even know a game was going on

say what


have you gone off your meds

this is way out there dude

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 24, 2022, 11:58:45 PM

That even the most "legitimate" use of something is still worth making fun of?  Nah, I'm good with my stance.

If you need a gun to feel big, I know where you stand

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 25, 2022, 12:10:37 AM

Quote from: ELA on May 24, 2022, 11:58:45 PM

That even the most "legitimate" use of something is still worth making fun of?  Nah, I'm good with my stance.

If you need a gun to feel big, I know where you stand

no matter how much you folks squeal you cant take my guns away from me just because some nut job committed

this horrible act

Over 40% of households in the US have a firearm.  Theres an estimated 393.000.000 guns owned by US citizens

So if you want to take away all guns owned by citizens go for it 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 25, 2022, 12:11:10 AM

Where did I say that?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 25, 2022, 12:19:05 AM

Quote from: ELA on May 25, 2022, 12:11:10 AM

Where did I say that?

so you dont want to take away all guns

wow ok its a start

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 25, 2022, 12:21:40 AM

Quote from: ELA on May 24, 2022, 11:58:45 PM

That even the most "legitimate" use of something is still worth making fun of?  Nah, I'm good with my stance.

If you need a gun to feel big, I know where you stand

I dont need a gun to feel big

I need a gun to feel my family and I are protected

I dont carry although Ive thought about it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 25, 2022, 12:22:47 AM

guns are a tool. like almost anything, they can be used to commit heinous crimes. A crazy man can get in a vehicle and run people over and kill them (Waukesha). A crazy man can take a hatchet or hammer and attack people and kill them. Can't fix crazy. 

What you'll find in MOST of these cases- just like the Buffalo shooter- 99.9% of the time these human shitbag scum were ALREADY KNOWN to law enforcement. 

We don't have a gun problem in my opinion. We have a law enforcement problem- and we have a mental health crisis- and NO ONE is doing jackshit about either of those things. These type of people belong in institutions- not on the streets- and law enforcement does a piss poor job tracking these people AFTER they already know about them. Like that Buffalo asswipe. He had made threats to shoot up his school- and then....nothing. They let him "fall off their radar" - when those sort of people should be watched like hawks and be checked in on constantly be leos. 

this is unbelievably sad and disgusting and really there are no words to describe it. when I saw it at first it made me want to vomit. I do not understand how anyone could do something like that. It is impossible to wrap your brain around it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 25, 2022, 12:27:00 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 25, 2022, 12:22:47 AM

guns are a tool. like almost anything, they can be used to commit heinous crimes. A crazy man can get in a vehicle and run people over and kill them (Waukesha). A crazy man can take a hatchet or hammer and attack people and kill them. Can't fix crazy.

What you'll find in MOST of these cases- just like the Buffalo shooter- 99.9% of the time these human shitbag scum were ALREADY KNOWN to law enforcement.

We don't have a gun problem in my opinion. We have a law enforcement problem- and we have a mental health crisis- and NO ONE is doing jackshit about either of those things. These type of people belong in institutions- not on the streets- and law enforcement does a piss poor job tracking these people AFTER they already know about them. Like that Buffalo asswipe. He had made threats to shoot up his school- and then....nothing. They let him "fall off their radar" - when those sort of people should be watched like hawks and be checked in on constantly be leos.

this is unbelievably sad and disgusting and really there are no words to describe it. when I saw it at first it made me want to vomit. I do not understand how anyone could do something like that. It is impossible to wrap your brain around it.

wise words Mdot

thank God the law responded as quick as they did else it might have been worse

Im glad we wont have to watch his trial.  What a bummer that would be.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2022, 02:48:53 AM

Day 2,394.  Copenhagen still.  My Danish is coming along nicely.  My bank account is not.  There are worse places to be stuck.

We have a Sunday return scheduled is we can both pass the antigen test Saturday.  Doctors are not open here weekends.  No 24/7s.  So, we test Friday to see if we are both neg and hope to stay that way Sunday.

We needed no test to get here, just to get home.  Almost zero masks here, a few Asians with them, city is wide open.  It is akin to Paris with less crime, begging, gypsies, and litter.  A TON of bikes, really amA zing how many.  We walk a lot, 5-6 miles per day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 25, 2022, 03:09:03 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 25, 2022, 12:10:37 AM

no matter how much you folks squeal you cant take my guns away from me just because some nut job committed

this horrible act

Over 40% of households in the US have a firearm.  Theres an estimated 393.000.000 guns owned by US citizens

So if you want to take away all guns owned by citizens go for it

Who are you even addressing here?!?  What planet are you on???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2022, 03:12:24 AM

What specific Common Sense new gun laws would prevent such things and how?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 25, 2022, 03:24:49 AM

In Texas, something can cause you to get so pissed, you want to shoot and kill them.  You don't have to wait to buy the gun.  You don't need a license to carry it.  And if you buy it privately, you face no background check.
You can immediately go and murder the person you're pissed at.  
Here's a fun thing I learned today:  in Texas, there is no age restriction in private sales.  You could literally sell a gun to a 10 year old.  
.
Boy, I'm glad cars weren't around when the Constitution was written.  We'd have guys with 10 DUIs driving around, spouting off about their Constitutional rights to drive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 25, 2022, 03:32:25 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 25, 2022, 03:12:24 AM

What specific Common Sense new gun laws would prevent such things and how?

How about mandatory background checks on all gun sales?  Certain people bitch about all the Mexicans sneaking into the US, but seem to ignore the 6.6 million guns sold with no background check needed each year.  Weird blind spot to have, especially when even 3/4 of NRA members support this idea.  But certain congressional members don't even want to put it to a vote.  Hmmm.
.
High-volume magazines on military-style guns - the guns that mow people down probably aren't needed for hunting or to stop a home intruder.  They're really effective when I have a room full of children I want to shoot, though.  
Those guns were designed for one thing:  killing as many people as possible in one go.  Not home defense.  Not Constitutional rights.  These are weapons the founding fathers couldn't fathom.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 25, 2022, 03:38:36 AM

Anyone suggesting we stick a gun in every classroom or arm teachers, etc is the kind of person who loses at tic-tac-toe.  No one has done that here yet.  Just don't.  
It's a "more guns" idea that lacks any thought or depth.  It's stupid.  Don't be stupid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 25, 2022, 07:00:57 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 25, 2022, 03:32:25 AM

How about mandatory background checks on all gun sales?  Certain people bitch about all the Mexicans sneaking into the US, but seem to ignore the 6.6 million guns sold with no background check needed each year.  Weird blind spot to have, especially when even 3/4 of NRA members support this idea.  But certain congressional members don't even want to put it to a vote.  Hmmm.
.
High-volume magazines on military-style guns - the guns that mow people down probably aren't needed for hunting or to stop a home intruder.  They're really effective when I have a room full of children I want to shoot, though. 
Those guns were designed for one thing:  killing as many people as possible in one go.  Not home defense.  Not Constitutional rights.  These are weapons the founding fathers couldn't fathom. 

This is correct. 

how does “ the right to bare arms” include high capacity assault rifles? 

We now know this nut purchased them easily, on his 18th birthday. Does anyone here really think that’s ok?

We now know he posted threatening stuff on social media prior to getting the guns.  Is anyone really ok with that?

I own a handgun.  I keep it at my house.  I have never needed to use it. Nobody has ever threatened to take it from me.

For what legitimate purpose do I need an assault weapon? 

More common sense gun laws won’t completely solve this- but it sure as hell would reduce the ability for these nut jobs to do so much killing so quickly. Why can’t we make it much harder for people who have these thoughts to do it so easily?

Why can’t you have to prove yourself mentally fit to purchase a weapon, and why do we allow assault weapons in public at all?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2022, 07:08:30 AM

All weapons are assault weapons - IF, and only IF, they are used in an assault.

I enjoy shooting at the range. It's a lot of fun (and not cheap). My wife likes it too.

We don't carry though. No need to around here.

In Florida there is a 3 day wait and background check, unless you have a gun permit. We are taking the Florida class the weekend after next - 8 hours.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2022, 07:10:40 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 25, 2022, 02:48:53 AM

Day 2,394.  Copenhagen still.  My Danish is coming along nicely.  My bank account is not.  There are worse places to be stuck.

We have a Sunday return scheduled is we can both pass the antigen test Saturday.  Doctors are not open here weekends.  No 24/7s.  So, we test Friday to see if we are both neg and hope to stay that way Sunday.

We needed no test to get here, just to get home.  Almost zero masks here, a few Asians with them, city is wide open.  It is akin to Paris with less crime, begging, gypsies, and litter.  A TON of bikes, really amA zing how many.  We walk a lot, 5-6 miles per day.

Have you been to Amsterdam?

The bike is their city symbol. It's nuts there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 25, 2022, 07:18:03 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2022, 07:08:30 AM

All weapons are assault weapons - IF, and only IF, they are used in an assault.

I enjoy shooting at the range. It's a lot of fun (and not cheap). My wife likes it too.

We don't carry though. No need to around here.

In Florida there is a 3 day wait and background check, unless you have a gun permit. We are taking the Florida class the weekend after next - 8 hours.

This kid shot his grandma, and was being pursued by 2 law enforcement officers. 

He crashed his car outside the school, and engaged in a gunfight with the 2 officers.  He shot both of them, then entered the school and randomly started killing.

He was more heavily armed and therefore  was easily able to defeat the two law-enforcement officers.

How did we let an 18-year-old, who was bullied as a kid because of a speech impediment, and who posted online warnings about this, by a high capacity assault weapon on his 18th birthday?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2022, 07:25:16 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 24, 2022, 11:49:56 PM

Youre right and you cant take my guns

If this guy had previously shown what a nut job he was then somebody could be accused of dropping the ball

but so far I dont see any indication of warnings he might have sent out

Tell me wise one what law could we have passed to keep this from happening other then taking all guns away from the American public'

You guys are quick to use the deaths of these people to further your political agenda

The Presidents speech tonight was nothing but divisive

It was, and so were the comments from #44. #42 actually had great comments.


(https://i.imgur.com/uSyYa11.png)

I can get behind all of that, as opposed to this kind of crap:

(https://i.imgur.com/RdBu01E.png)

Some needs to ask #44 about Waukesha and that "SUV violence" at the parade.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 25, 2022, 08:18:02 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 25, 2022, 03:38:36 AM

Anyone suggesting we stick a gun in every classroom or arm teachers, etc is the kind of person who loses at tic-tac-toe.  No one has done that here yet.  Just don't. 
It's a "more guns" idea that lacks any thought or depth.  It's stupid.  Don't be stupid.

yeah, arming teachers is a stupid idea lol.

I just wonder how this stuff even happens. Cause my little nephews elementary school down here in SoFL is on LOCK DOWN. School is in a really nice neighborhood too. And they have police up the ass at the school, if any sick f**k even attempted- there'd be about 20 police officers within seconds lighting them up.

Maybe put more police at schools and have leos track and check up on psychos like this that they know about basically 24/7 instead of having them be useless donut eating, pulling people over and writing traffic tickets asswipes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 25, 2022, 08:21:57 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 25, 2022, 03:24:49 AM

In Texas, something can cause you to get so pissed, you want to shoot and kill them.  You don't have to wait to buy the gun.  You don't need a license to carry it.  And if you buy it privately, you face no background check.
You can immediately go and murder the person you're pissed at. 
Here's a fun thing I learned today:  in Texas, there is no age restriction in private sales.  You could literally sell a gun to a 10 year old. 
.
Boy, I'm glad cars weren't around when the Constitution was written.  We'd have guys with 10 DUIs driving around, spouting off about their Constitutional rights to drive.

this is all insane and stupid af. literally cant' believe it's allowed.

Should have to be 21 to purchase a gun, mandatory background checks for sure and maybe even a psyche eval/test, and you should absolutely need a license to carry- and private sales should be handled by 3rd party who does the background check and should be same 21 year age limit to buy- and everything should be recorded by that 3rd party- time/date name/address/id of seller - same for purchaser. This should be national law and supersede every state law.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 25, 2022, 08:29:33 AM

Quote from: ELA on May 24, 2022, 09:04:09 PM

Everyone who applies for a gun license should be given a penis pump.  That's all they are truly asking for, without asking for it

You should get out in the real world more often. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 25, 2022, 08:32:53 AM

Quote from: ELA on May 24, 2022, 10:04:15 PM

I'm not.  I'm ashamed that America can't figure out our gun problem, and kids keep dying because we love guns more than we love them

We don't have a gun problem, we have a law and order problem, a mental health problem and a problem with people that have no respect for life, each other or themselves. I have a safe full of guns that to date have killed or injured no one. They are not a problem. But they are there if the need ever arises unlike in places where they are prohibited,  you know where these incidents keep occuring. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 25, 2022, 08:37:56 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 24, 2022, 11:41:25 PM

No one who frequents this site wants these things to happen.

But there are 2 groups:  one who says 'this is intolerable and something must change' and one who says 'you ain't taking my guns.'
Yes, I find that disgusting.

You are ignoring the third group, those of us that know there is a problem and also understand it is NOT access to firearms by law abiding citizens.

I don't have the statistics readily available, but there are hundreds of thousands of crimes being prevented or stopped by innocent and legal gun owners every year. Perhaps if this was publized more, people would begin to understand it is not the gun that is the problem, it is the nut cases that we as a society, fail to address in a meaningful way. Most of the people that do these things are well known to the community and even law enforcement, but are not addressed until after they commit the crime. Perhaps if we start there, we can begin to prevent some or most of these issues. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 25, 2022, 08:41:39 AM

Quote from: ELA on May 24, 2022, 11:58:45 PM

That even the most "legitimate" use of something is still worth making fun of?  Nah, I'm good with my stance.

If you need a gun to feel big, I know where you stand

You are painting with a wide brush and insulting millions of legal gun owners in this country. Your ignorance about guns and those that own them is revealing. If you were interested, I would love to take you to a trap shoot sometime and learn a little bit about something you seem to want to condem. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 25, 2022, 08:56:43 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 25, 2022, 03:32:25 AM

How about mandatory background checks on all gun sales?  Certain people bitch about all the Mexicans sneaking into the US, but seem to ignore the 6.6 million guns sold with no background check needed each year.  Weird blind spot to have, especially when even 3/4 of NRA members support this idea.  But certain congressional members don't even want to put it to a vote.  Hmmm.
.
High-volume magazines on military-style guns - the guns that mow people down probably aren't needed for hunting or to stop a home intruder.  They're really effective when I have a room full of children I want to shoot, though. 
Those guns were designed for one thing:  killing as many people as possible in one go.  Not home defense.  Not Constitutional rights.  These are weapons the founding fathers couldn't fathom. 

Another post ignorant of the facts. 

You want universal background checks on all gun sales? How do you enforce that? I have a gun that I don't use but I have a friend who would like to use it for hunting. In your world, I would need to either obtain a Federal Firearms License and perform a background check on him (who by the way already owns many of his own guns and has a Concealed Carry Permit) or I need to broker the sale through a FFL holder. All of this cost extra money and is unneccesary. And this very scenerio is the majority of the 6.6 million guns sold every year. 

And if this was required, how would it be enforced? I can easily take that gun to him and have him pay me with or without that law. How does the government prevent that? 

And the final point is that this is a violation of the 2nd Amendment. 

As to your issue about "high capacity" magazines, you again show your ignorance. First, the 2A was established not so that people could hunt but as a method of ensuring that the government does not run roughshot over the people. The Framers supported that notion that the people should posses MILITARY GRADE weapons. This was intentional. This is also been usurped by the Federal Firearms act of 1934 by banning automatic weapons. This is a direct violation of the 2A and should be thrown out. 

The second issue with your proposal to ban "high capacity" magazines is that it effectively does nothing. Someone intending to mow down people can just as easily use 5 30 round mags or 12 10 round mags. With just a little practice, it takes about a sec or two to change magazines. That is less time than it takes to acquire a target making this proposal less that useless. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 25, 2022, 09:06:14 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 25, 2022, 07:00:57 AM

This is correct. 

how does “ the right to bare arms” include high capacity assault rifles? 

We now know this nut purchased them easily, on his 18th birthday. Does anyone here really think that’s ok?

We now know he posted threatening stuff on social media prior to getting the guns.  Is anyone really ok with that?

I own a handgun.  I keep it at my house.  I have never needed to use it. Nobody has ever threatened to take it from me.

For what legitimate purpose do I need an assault weapon? 

More common sense gun laws won’t completely solve this- but it sure as hell would reduce the ability for these nut jobs to do so much killing so quickly. Why can’t we make it much harder for people who have these thoughts to do it so easily?

Why can’t you have to prove yourself mentally fit to purchase a weapon, and why do we allow assault weapons in public at all?

Define assualt weapon. (HINT: it is a made up term used to stoke fear on people that know little to nothing about firearms). Any object used to harm another person is an assault weapon. 

What other of your rights would you like to put to a test in order to exercise? How about the first amendment right to free speech? Should you take a test to determine if you are allow to speak in public or post on an internet message board? 

What happened in Texas was appalling and is a tragety commited by a deranged individual. The tool of choice is NOT the issue. Timothy McVeigh killed far more people than that using nothing but a truck, some fertilizer and diesel fuel. Should be ban those things also?

Everyone that has the least bit of a moral compass knows that what happened yesterday was wrong and we are all looking for someone to blame. Our minds and our morals lead us in this direction. But instead of looking at the person that did this horrible thing because he is already dead, people now are looking eslewhere to determine what can be done to prevent it from happening again. And it is all to easy to focus on the inanimate object used. There are over 330 million guns in the hads of the American people, we are NOT going to get them off the street. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 25, 2022, 09:17:29 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 25, 2022, 08:32:53 AM

We don't have a gun problem, we have a law and order problem, a mental health problem and a problem with people that have no respect for life, each other or themselves. 

All of these can be problems.  It's not an either/or

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 25, 2022, 09:39:40 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 25, 2022, 09:06:14 AM

Define assualt weapon. (HINT: it is a made up term used to stoke fear on people that know little to nothing about firearms). Any object used to harm another person is an assault weapon.

What other of your rights would you like to put to a test in order to exercise? How about the first amendment right to free speech? Should you take a test to determine if you are allow to speak in public or post on an internet message board?

What happened in Texas was appalling and is a tragety commited by a deranged individual. The tool of choice is NOT the issue. Timothy McVeigh killed far more people than that using nothing but a truck, some fertilizer and diesel fuel. Should be ban those things also?

Everyone that has the least bit of a moral compass knows that what happened yesterday was wrong and we are all looking for someone to blame. Our minds and our morals lead us in this direction. But instead of looking at the person that did this horrible thing because he is already dead, people now are looking eslewhere to determine what can be done to prevent it from happening again. And it is all to easy to focus on the inanimate object used. There are over 330 million guns in the hads of the American people, we are NOT going to get them off the street.

An AR—15 with high capacity. 

I DID focus on the person. 

Are you OK with an 18-year-old purchasing two AR fifteens on his 18th birthday with zero background check of any kind in a troubled past including social media posts?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 25, 2022, 11:23:15 AM

All of the above are parts of the problem.  120+ guns per 100 Americans is part of the problem. American gun culture (more specifically, those who view firearms as anything more than tools with specific rules for their use) is part of the problem. 

Making potential counselors, teachers, therapists, and social workers go 6 figures in hock for masters degrees, then brag about paying them $38K a year is part of the problem. 

Men who control, manipulate, and physically harm the women in their lives are part of the problem. There is ALWAYS misogyny involved.

And while I don't know everything that would go into a solution, I know some things that are NOT part of the solution.

More guns isn't part of the solution. We're seeing that now. Yesterday's shooter legally obtained his firearms.

https://twitter.com/KENS5/status/1529439423447834624?s=20&t=og3T0XasIVyx6-b5Q_J7RA

Hardening targets is performance art and isn't part of the solution, either. The Sandy Hook shooter shot his way in. Yesterday's shooter shot his way in. Previous shooters in Texas went after Wal-Mart, a flea market, and Fort Hood.  Hell, we won't even pay for maintenance of the systems we have.

It's interesting that we're talking about wholesale, systemic change on the second anniversary of Minneapolis PD officer Derek Chauvin killing George Floyd in cold blood. Last fall, the voters of Minneapolis roundly rejected the best chance for a wholesale overhaul of the MPD, and re-elected a strong mayor to a second term.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 25, 2022, 11:46:13 AM

(https://scontent.flnk2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/283649838_10166325441205109_6608986610417412958_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=pAmb61mwgyQAX-1hKN_&tn=BqmQm9LLaPjyyZKV&_nc_ht=scontent.flnk2-1.fna&oh=00_AT_22yTb0Os-eGhJNd9qEdG4LqTy7a5PREc7cew2G_1thQ&oe=629369E7)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2022, 11:56:03 AM

So he bought them legally with full BG check.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2022, 11:59:01 AM

I don't believe a background check is required in Texas.

I do think it should be, just as it is here in Florida.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2022, 12:19:45 PM

It is a Federal requirement 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2022, 12:51:14 PM

Color me corrected, however, how can one do a background check if there is no wait period?

How long did he have these guns? If it was longer than a few days, a background check would have outed him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 25, 2022, 01:01:07 PM

If he purchased them legally then he had to have a background check. That is a Fed law. 

An AR15 is no more an assault weapon than a single shot 22 rifle. I have an AR15, it is simply a Semi-Automatic rifle that looks scary because it is black. I have other rifles that are much more powerful and can fire every bit as fast as an AR15 but no one wants to worry about those. 

One of my favorites is a Remington Model 742 30-06 semi automatic with 10 and 20 round magazines. If you know anything about firearms, an AR15 would not hold a candle to the damage that gun can do. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 25, 2022, 01:02:50 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2022, 12:51:14 PM

Color me corrected, however, how can one do a background check if there is no wait period?

How long did he have these guns? If it was longer than a few days, a background check would have outed him.

A Fed background check takes about 15-20 mins. I have been through several. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2022, 01:12:42 PM

Clearly the check did not include looking at his social media.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 25, 2022, 01:13:48 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on May 25, 2022, 11:23:15 AM

All of the above are parts of the problem.  120+ guns per 100 Americans is part of the problem. American gun culture (more specifically, those who view firearms as anything more than tools with specific rules for their use) is part of the problem.

Making potential counselors, teachers, therapists, and social workers go 6 figures in hock for masters degrees, then brag about paying them $38K a year is part of the problem.

Men who control, manipulate, and physically harm the women in their lives are part of the problem. There is ALWAYS misogyny involved.

And while I don't know everything that would go into a solution, I know some things that are NOT part of the solution.

More guns isn't part of the solution. We're seeing that now. Yesterday's shooter legally obtained his firearms.

https://twitter.com/KENS5/status/1529439423447834624?s=20&t=og3T0XasIVyx6-b5Q_J7RA

Hardening targets is performance art and isn't part of the solution, either. The Sandy Hook shooter shot his way in. Yesterday's shooter shot his way in. Previous shooters in Texas went after Wal-Mart, a flea market, and Fort Hood.  Hell, we won't even pay for maintenance of the systems we have.

It's interesting that we're talking about wholesale, systemic change on the second anniversary of Minneapolis PD officer Derek Chauvin killing George Floyd in cold blood. Last fall, the voters of Minneapolis roundly rejected the best chance for a wholesale overhaul of the MPD, and re-elected a strong mayor to a second term.

You bring up some good points, but I would like to pose this question: Why are kids now shooting up schools and killing people? When I grew up, you never heard of a kid (under 20) killing anyone. Where I live, we had just as many guns then as we do now, so why were we not killing each other if the availability of guns is an issue?

When I was in High School, you could go into the parking lot and EVERY pickup truck had a gun rack filled with rifles. I had friends that would check traps on the way to school and in doing so would carry a handgun in their coat pocket. When they got to school, they would put their coat and gun in their locker. I had another friend that kept a rifle in his locker. Do you know how many gun shootings we had? ZERO.

We were not fascinated by guns, we were taught how to use and respect them. As a matter of fact, schools used to offer firearms training in school. You would have thought that if to many guns or the availability of guns was the issue, they would have had mass shootings every day back then. But as they didn't, perhaps that is not the problem. 

And I disagree that more guns is not part of the solution. Had someone in that school been in possession of a rifle and had been proficient with it, they could have stopped this kid before he got to the door. After all, they only thing that stopped this bad guy with a gun was a good guy with a gun. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 25, 2022, 01:16:50 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2022, 01:12:42 PM

Clearly the check did not include looking at his social media.

No they don't. They look through the FBI database for any recorded crimes that may preclude an individual from obtaining a gun. 

The guy that shot up a church in Texas a couple of years ago had been dishonorably discharged from the Air Force for domestic violence. That should have prevented him from buying a gun but the Air Force neglected to report this infraction to the FBI on this discharge. Therefore, when he went to buy his rifle, he passed the background check.

BTW: Does anyone remember what stopped this guy that was shooting up a church in Texas? It was a neighbor with an AR15.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 25, 2022, 01:27:36 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2022, 01:12:42 PM

Clearly the check did not include looking at his social media.

That’s true. But then you fall into a weird vortex of right and such. 

Can you be denied a pretty core right based on exercise of another core right? It gets interesting legally.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 25, 2022, 01:30:08 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 25, 2022, 01:01:07 PM

If he purchased them legally then he had to have a background check. That is a Fed law.

An AR15 is no more an assault weapon than a single shot 22 rifle. I have an AR15, it is simply a Semi-Automatic rifle that looks scary because it is black. I have other rifles that are much more powerful and can fire every bit as fast as an AR15 but no one wants to worry about those.

One of my favorites is a Remington Model 742 30-06 semi automatic with 10 and 20 round magazines. If you know anything about firearms, an AR15 would not hold a candle to the damage that gun can do.

Oh, cool.  He was just carrying a weapon designed to kill many rapidly.  Just not the best one. 🥴

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 25, 2022, 01:49:11 PM

it's not guns. 
it's morality and mental health. 
as stated, there are 120 guns known for every 100 American's.... how many of those guns do you hear from?  
there is a Sig365 in my pocket at any given time.  nobody knows it's there but me (and now you).  it has lived a sheltered life and isn't a bit crazy. 
me however, i may be a bit crazy- which is why i carry it.  having the capacity to drastically escalate a situation ensures i walk away and if i can't find an opening to walk away i make one, even if it makes me look like a wimp in front of my family.... otherwise, i'd likely swing on jackalopes far more often.  so... that weapon keeps everyone safe if for that reason.  it also allows me an opportunity to defend myself in the case i am ever, however statistically unlikely, a violent encounter with an armed person demonstrating temper and intent and with the means to cause harm. 

this kid entered a freakin' grade school- a calculated act knowing a high likelihood nobody was there capable of defending themselves.  i mean, he didn't charge into a police precinct and do this, nor a police bar or local VFW... he didn't go after folks attending a gun show... he calculated and went for the softest target his evil mind could determine, and launched his evil attack. 

evil is the underscore, here.  we turned our backs on God and are surprised of the fallout? and for those who reject God, fine, however- the teachings of Christianity establish a moral code- a contract with society playing on the condition of men being noble savages and all that jazz- that kept shit like this from happening... when you don't have codes anymore, when it's a free-for-all is it is- this shit will happen. 

and... go ahead and try to take my weapons... they are currently all legally and lawfully owned.  the moment laws change that, they will be all unlawfully and illegally owned.  why? because bad guys don't give a shit about laws.  yeah, this one slipped through the cracks- and you can't tell me so don't even try the asshole who sold these weapons, apparently legally, to this kid didn't sense something was off.... that alone should have ended the prospect of a sale, and resulted in a tip to authorities.  but just like all the crap we deal with daily going wonky in this nation, people guard themselves with 'laws', not expectations of a contract with society and certainly not God.....  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on May 25, 2022, 02:26:59 PM

There is no nation wide database listing those with mental health issues.  If there was it would be an administrative nightmare, prone to abuse, and would not contain those with no previous diagnosis.  IMO a lot of the issue is just the times we live in.  50+ years ago gun violence was not so prevalent in US culture.  The change has been gradual but large.  Back then people were more up in arms about cigarette and liquor commercials on TV.  There were no video games and no internet.  The Godfather was about the most gun violent and graphic movie you could find back then and being R rated you didn't see it unless you were 18. And the mentally ill dangerous to themselves and others were not on the street.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 25, 2022, 02:43:10 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on May 25, 2022, 02:26:59 PM

There is no nation wide database listing those with mental health issues.  If there was it would be an administrative nightmare, prone to abuse, and would not contain those with no previous diagnosis.  IMO a lot of the issue is just the times we live in.  50+ years ago gun violence was not so prevalent in US culture.  The change has been gradual but large.  Back then people were more up in arms about cigarette and liquor commercials on TV.  There were no video games and no internet.  The Godfather was about the most gun violent and graphic movie you could find back then and being R rated you didn't see it unless you were 18. And the mentally ill dangerous to themselves and others were not on the street.

we aren't going to legislate ourselves out of this.  databases be damned.  lists and qualifications to be on those lists be damned.  everyone looks to government to fix something, and that's a problem.  a big one.

again i say, the man who sold that kid to rifles on two separate occasions had to have sensed something was not right.... he just wanted that cash and justified whatever his actions by deferring any responsibility to authorities and laws.  those who knew this kid knew something was not right- beyond doubt.  the girl he reached out to in cali certainly knew something but shucked personal responsibility because she could- as if her not asking for it makes it not hers...

everyone hides behind the law as shelter, and lives their life not in concern for what's morally right or wrong, but with what they can either do or not do as they elevate law in the custody of government to direct that... and that, y'all, is our greatest mistake.  there is no way to fix this issue legally and the government certainly isn't the authority to do so... people are, and that is directed by what they'll put up with and what they won't- which is what 'law' and 'government' should follow instead of lead... but it doesn't anymore.  people identify what they want to do and then plot to do it deciding only afterward "is it legal or do i have to do this quietly", instead of taking personal responsibility for themselves and saying as soon as a notion crosses their mind "that isn't right and i'm not going to be a part of it". 

50 years ago we were still a predominately Christian nation.  now we aren't.  these circumstances aren't disassociated.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on May 25, 2022, 03:36:15 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 25, 2022, 01:13:48 PM

And I disagree that more guns is not part of the solution. Had someone in that school been in possession of a rifle and had been proficient with it, they could have stopped this kid before he got to the door. After all, they only thing that stopped this bad guy with a gun was a good guy with a gun.

I think the possibility of accidents / incidents in a school far outweighs the potential protection of arming the teachers or having a rent-a-cop.

As horrible as this situation is, on a per capita basis, this is still a relatively rare event.  The number of times that a kid has gotten his hand on a gun at home that has resulted in an accidental shooting far outweighs the number of cases of school mass shootings.  Having more guns in the schools just offers more opportunity for those chances of an untrained kid doing something stupid when the teacher / rent-a-cop has a momentary lapse and loses possession of his weapon.

Besides, didn't this lunatic have a shootout with cops before gaining access to the school?  If trained law enforcement officers can't bring him down, do you really think that a teacher who is already sleep deprived from grading homework until midnight the day before will get the drop on him?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 25, 2022, 03:52:18 PM

Quote from: grillrat on May 25, 2022, 03:36:15 PM

I think the possibility of accidents / incidents in a school far outweighs the potential protection of arming the teachers or having a rent-a-cop.

As horrible as this situation is, on a per capita basis, this is still a relatively rare event.  The number of times that a kid has gotten his hand on a gun at home that has resulted in an accidental shooting far outweighs the number of cases of school mass shootings.  Having more guns in the schools just offers more opportunity for those chances of an untrained kid doing something stupid when the teacher / rent-a-cop has a momentary lapse and loses possession of his weapon.

Besides, didn't this lunatic have a shootout with cops before gaining access to the school?  If trained law enforcement officers can't bring him down, do you really think that a teacher who is already sleep deprived from grading homework until midnight the day before will get the drop on him?

Notice that I did not say teacher or student. But there are certain teachers that I would want to be armed at all times. In one of my posts, I mentioned a fried that would check traps before school, carrying a handgun and then leave it in his locker during the school day. That same kid grew up and is now a teacher in that same school. He is also a volunteer fireman in the township he lives in, works closely with law enforcement as he is also a member of the villages city council. I would trust him MORE than most LEO's to carry a firearm in school. As a matter of fact, when I was on our School Board, I seriously looked into what it would take to allow him to carry. (There were laws against it).

There are many of us that carry every day without incident. As Drew said in his post, it keeps a lot of us out of trouble as we are aware of the power to take life that we possess. 

Also the fact of the matter is that we protect banks, stores, congress critters, office buildings, etc. with armed people, but for schools we posts signs that says "This is a Gun Free Zone." and expect that to protect our kids. That is insane. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 25, 2022, 04:41:24 PM

So the answer is.......more god and more guns?  

This is madness.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 25, 2022, 04:52:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 25, 2022, 04:41:24 PM

So the answer is.......more god and more guns? 

This is madness.

If that is what you've extracted, sure. 

Its not God, persay, it's the contract with society within a nation that adheres to the rules of biblical text....... whether you believe that text or not doesn't matter, as in order for you not to be rejected by society you'd have to adopt the values they adhere to.... and while adhering to those rules, whether you believe in a god or not, people live better- safer- longer- and in better condition than without them. 

More government overwatch isn't the answer for damn certain.  The purpose for government has escaped that which benefits the people they govern and exists now to benefit those doing the governing... even the most noble initiatives are extorted and squandered.  Thats what governing does. 

People have to take personal responsibility instead of finding ways to blame and divert.... insofar as I can see it, in this particular and horrendous situation, the asshole who sold that kid two rifles on two separate days yet days apart is absolutely guilty of being an accomplice... I'll not be convinced he didn't know something effed up was happening- if not from the first purchase, damn certainly from the second... but he wanted that $$$, and he was covered LEGALLY... he didn't give a damn about morally..... and for folks who elevate the authority of state over God, that's okay. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 25, 2022, 05:03:39 PM

For those of you radical religious types who may still preach about pre-marital abstinence, guess what?  The gun control debate is right up your alley!  The most effective gun safety is to not own a gun!!!  Isn't that something?!?
.
Now, I know where your mind went, the moment you read that:  he wants to take away all our guns!!
No, I don't.  
I'm just pointing out your hypocricy between two issues....one that creates potential people some of the time and another than ends them.
.
II am saying that maybe people don't need guns that can mow down 20 people.  
Maybe people don't need fucking body armor.
If you need a rapid-firing gun with a large magazine and body armor because you're afraid of Nancy Pelosi's goons barging their way into your home, please stop reading this, slowly walk away, and find a cliff to walk off of.  You're not sharing the same reality as the rest of us.
.
Wow, that was dark, OAM!  Why bring suicide into this?  Well, I'm glad you asked.  Did you know that guns are responsible for more suicides in our country than homicides?  Fancy that!  Go look at the list of 2022 mass shootings, and the 2 most common types you'll see are drive-bys and inter-family murder-suicides.  
It's a lot harder to kill your whole family and then yourself without a gun.  
.
But please, let's dwell on your constitutional right to amp that possibly up to 11.  
.
Now, I'm a teacher.  Apparently this guy just walked up into a random classroom.  What the fuck am I going to do about it?  Say you train me to be an expert marksman.  Say I have a gun in a safe place (which could only be in some sort of safe and NOT in any easy-to-access spot).  A random ass guy in body armor has suddnely entered my classroom while I'm kneeling down, helping a student with their writing.  
WHAT IN THE FUCK AM I GOING TO DO?  I'm the only adult in the room, I'm dead first.  Sorry, this isn't a movie.  The formica tables I'd be tossing up as barricades as I slow-motion run to my gun aren't stopping any bullets.  Even if I'm carrying the gun on me, it's a pistol and this guy has an assault rifle, 6 of my students are murdered in front of me, and I'm supposed to go into action hero mode?!?
.
Anyone who says teachers should be armed and trained lives in an outright fantasy.  It's like a car accident - you don't see it coming.  I'd say half the time another adult enters my classroom in an ordinary situation does so without me knowing.....BECAUSE I'M FOCUSING ON MY JOB.  
.
LIFE IS NOT AN ACTION MOVIE.  GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 25, 2022, 05:05:19 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on May 25, 2022, 04:52:26 PM

If that is what you've extracted, sure. 

Its not God, persay, it's the contract with society within a nation that adheres to the rules of biblical text....... whether you believe that text or not doesn't matter, as in order for you not to be rejected by society you'd have to adopt the values they adhere to.... and while adhering to those rules, whether you believe in a god or not, people live better- safer- longer- and in better condition than without them.

More government overwatch isn't the answer for damn certain.  The purpose for government has escaped that which benefits the people they govern and exists now to benefit those doing the governing... even the most noble initiatives are extorted and squandered.  Thats what governing does. 

People have to take personal responsibility instead of finding ways to blame and divert.... insofar as I can see it, in this particular and horrendous situation, the asshole who sold that kid two rifles on two separate days yet days apart is absolutely guilty of being an accomplice... I'll not be convinced he didn't know something effed up was happening- if not from the first purchase, damn certainly from the second... but he wanted that $$$, and he was covered LEGALLY... he didn't give a damn about morally..... and for folks who elevate the authority of state over God, that's okay. 

The fact that you link christianity with morality means we can't even have this conversation.  You're too far removed from reality.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 25, 2022, 05:23:48 PM

I don't even know why we're bothering with the conversation.  Nothing is going to change.  Not on the gun end.  Not on the mental health end.  It's all broken.  We should move on to Depp vs Heard or how every "van life" youtube person is now posting "van life sucks" videos, etc.

You know, distract ourselves with bullshit while handing over some more of our money to the 3 richest people.  Like we're supposed to.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on May 25, 2022, 05:40:04 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 25, 2022, 03:52:18 PM

Notice that I did not say teacher or student. But there are certain teachers that I would want to be armed at all times. In one of my posts, I mentioned a fried that would check traps before school, carrying a handgun and then leave it in his locker during the school day. That same kid grew up and is now a teacher in that same school. He is also a volunteer fireman in the township he lives in, works closely with law enforcement as he is also a member of the villages city council. I would trust him MORE than most LEO's to carry a firearm in school. As a matter of fact, when I was on our School Board, I seriously looked into what it would take to allow him to carry. (There were laws against it).

There are many of us that carry every day without incident. As Drew said in his post, it keeps a lot of us out of trouble as we are aware of the power to take life that we possess.

Also the fact of the matter is that we protect banks, stores, congress critters, office buildings, etc. with armed people, but for schools we posts signs that says "This is a Gun Free Zone." and expect that to protect our kids. That is insane.

You are realistically looking at two options.  1)  Rent-a-cop is armed and trained well and is posted at the entrance or 2) having a teacher that is qualified enough to handle a firearm.  The problem with option 1 is that Rent-a-cop is an extra $50,000 a year from your school budget for something that is realistically not going to be used much (or hopefully ever).  The problem with #2 is that the teacher's primary job is to teach, so while he could be of help once the shooter starts roving the hallways, the shooter could have sprayed three rooms of students before the armed teacher gets there.

I get the idea, and there are certainly a couple of teachers that I might trust to handle the situation correctly, but for example, my kid's elementary school (at that time) had literally 12 teachers total, and 8 were female aged 26 or younger.  While I might be painting a broad brush, I'm fairly certain that not a single one would be competent to handle a gun.  And the turnover rate in schools is decently high.  You don't want to go to the trouble of training a teacher to be prepared for this kind of situation, only for that teacher to leave at the end of the year to go to a different school.

We all like to think that "well, if I were in this situation, it would have turned out differently because of X, Y, and Z."  And to be honest, if you specifically had been there, then absolutely it might have been diffused.  But you are basing that on YOUR training, and YOUR experiences.  If you instituted an across-the-board directive that an armed guard is present at every school, you are going to get some highly qualified individuals who probably have equal to the skills that you possess.  But you are also going to get some who are.....less.  And the more financially strapped a school is, the more bottom-of-the-barrel of guard they are going to get.  Some kid as a prank slips a roofie into his morning coffee, and suddenly you have an unsecured weapon that anyone can pull from his holster.  Or maybe you get a security guard with racial issues and lousy trigger discipline.  

You are looking at this from a best case scenario perspective of a former LEO or military becoming a guard.  I am sadly looking from the opposite side, an institution that already struggles with getting its teachers basic school supplies suddenly has to fork out more money for a guard and gets the cheapest thing they can get.  I just think that the odds of getting a crappy guard that results in an accidental discharge are higher than the odds that a homicidal nutbag is walking through the door.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 25, 2022, 06:27:16 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 25, 2022, 05:05:19 PM

The fact that you link christianity with morality means we can't even have this conversation.  You're too far removed from reality.

I'm to far removed from YOUR reality.  And morality is and always will be linked with Christianity in this nation.  Without it, we're some third world nation and would never have been what we've since lost. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 25, 2022, 07:19:08 PM

An easy claim that can't be proven or falsified.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 25, 2022, 07:27:08 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 25, 2022, 05:23:48 PM

I don't even know why we're bothering with the conversation.  Nothing is going to change.  Not on the gun end.  Not on the mental health end.  It's all broken.  We should move on to Depp vs Heard or how every "van life" youtube person is now posting "van life sucks" videos, etc.

You know, distract ourselves with bullshit while handing over some more of our money to the 3 richest people.  Like we're supposed to.

AMEN. Shit ain't going to change.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 25, 2022, 07:29:01 PM

Quote from: grillrat on May 25, 2022, 05:40:04 PM

You are realistically looking at two options.  1)  Rent-a-cop is armed and trained well and is posted at the entrance or The problem with option 1 is that Rent-a-cop is an extra $50,000 a year from your school budget for something that is realistically not going to be used much (or hopefully ever). 

Easy fix. Get rid of all the asswipes I see on 95 and all over that do nothing but extort money by writing speeding or parking tickets and put their fat stupid asses AT THE F****G schools and protect the children. Don't need to hire more of anything. Reassign their fat asses.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 25, 2022, 07:35:34 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 25, 2022, 05:05:19 PM

The fact that you link christianity with morality means we can't even have this conversation.  You're too far removed from reality.

yeah....OAM is right on the money with this one.

It's like some people never actually read the bible....you know....bunch of sh*t bunch of stupid cave dwellers that wiped their asses with tree leafs made up thousands of years ago in which they openly say it's cool to own people, beat your woman, children, kill homos and all that jazz.

Morality and religion are not mutually inclusive. Some of the most "religious" people often tend to be the most immoral. Ted Haggard says what up while he's getting railed by his latino boy toy prostitute while he's high on meth.

German catholic church was interwoven with the Nazis. The damn Nazis uniforms had belt buckles that read....Gott mit uns...god is with us.
(https://cdn.hibid.com/img.axd?id=4271716279&wid=&rwl=false&p=&ext=&w=0&h=0&t=&lp=&c=true&wt=false&sz=MAX&checksum=RgWinXOG2IoK8V5dPQU8DYGPwdJfvotR)

Also...ever heard of the f***king crusades? Yeah....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 25, 2022, 07:38:42 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 25, 2022, 04:41:24 PM

So the answer is.......more god and more guns? 

This is madness.

that's f**kin' 'MERICA for ya. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 25, 2022, 08:17:43 PM

You, mdot, aren't capable of a debate with me about Christianity.  

Your ignorance is astounding, and no doubt why you would align with afro- who is a good guy but lives in a bubble with distorted windows viewing what's outside.  

I didn't say someone needs to be a Christian to get along in this country- I said the codes established by morals directed by biblical teachings are good codes to live by whether you adhere and submit to the Bible or not.  People did, in this nation in times past, and when they did predominately, we didn't have the issues we face today.  I dont know how that can be argued to the contrary. 

The density of weapons within the populace has actually declined- there may be more guns buy they are more concentrated in certain lifestyles than they were... in times past you'd have a hard time finding a household without a gun... now that is more common than it isn't. Yet, violence against total strangers Ala mass shootings seems to be on the rise.  ... but let's blame the gun and not the sentiment? 

The pharmaceutical industry and the media are the evils this nation faces if they are to be identified.  That, and the sentiment that has abandoned good and replaced it with feel good.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 25, 2022, 08:46:09 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 25, 2022, 05:05:19 PM

The fact that you link christianity with morality means we can't even have this conversation.  You're too far removed from reality.

Really you're the slappie that told Kris 60 and I that those helping others thru charity just so we could manipulate them later.You just hate life and those who have a go of it. You wouldn't recognize reality if it blew up in your face and circled around and bit you in the ass

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 25, 2022, 09:14:18 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on May 25, 2022, 08:17:43 PM

You, mdot, aren't capable of a debate with me about Christianity. 

Your ignorance is astounding, and no doubt why you would align with afro- who is a good guy but lives in a bubble with distorted windows viewing what's outside. 

I didn't say someone needs to be a Christian to get along in this country- I said the codes established by morals directed by biblical teachings are good codes to live by whether you adhere and submit to the Bible or not.  People did, in this nation in times past, and when they did predominately, we didn't have the issues we face today.  I dont know how that can be argued to the contrary.

The density of weapons within the populace has actually declined- there may be more guns buy they are more concentrated in certain lifestyles than they were... in times past you'd have a hard time finding a household without a gun... now that is more common than it isn't. Yet, violence against total strangers Ala mass shootings seems to be on the rise.  ... but let's blame the gun and not the sentiment?

The pharmaceutical industry and the media are the evils this nation faces if they are to be identified.  That, and the sentiment that has abandoned good and replaced it with feel good. 

K

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 25, 2022, 09:19:53 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 25, 2022, 07:35:34 PM

yeah....OAM is right on the money with this one.

It's like some people never actually read the bible....you know....bunch of sh*t bunch of stupid cave dwellers that wiped their asses with tree leafs made up thousands of years ago in which they openly say it's cool to own people, beat your woman, children, kill homos and all that jazz.

Morality and religion are not mutually inclusive. Some of the most "religious" people often tend to be the most immoral. Ted Haggard says what up while he's getting railed by his latino boy toy prostitute while he's high on meth.

German catholic church was interwoven with the Nazis. The damn Nazis uniforms had belt buckles that read....Gott mit uns...god is with us.
(https://cdn.hibid.com/img.axd?id=4271716279&wid=&rwl=false&p=&ext=&w=0&h=0&t=&lp=&c=true&wt=false&sz=MAX&checksum=RgWinXOG2IoK8V5dPQU8DYGPwdJfvotR)

Also...ever heard of the f***king crusades? Yeah....

ya by those who ignored the very tenets of the religion they claimed to represent.Read the Sermon on the Mount,nothing mentioning any of the Crusades,Inquisitions,Quartering - dismemberment by a horse harnessed to each limb and driven in different directions,burning at the stake,iron maidens,racks,thumb screws all by creeps rivaling Mao,Hitler,Stalin.How they or you confuse that with Christian dialogue is a mystery.The fact you and gator guy are in agreement I'm pretty sure is one of the signs of the apocalypse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 25, 2022, 09:22:23 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on May 25, 2022, 09:19:53 PM

ya by those who ignored the very tenets of the religion they claimed to represent.Read the Sermon on the Mount,nothing mentioning any of the Crusades,Inquisitions,Quartering - dismemberment by a horse harnessed to each limb and driven in different directions,burning at the stake,iron maidens,racks,thumb screws all by creeps rivaling Mao,Hitler,Stalin.How they or you confuse that with Christian dialogue is a mystery.The fact you and gator guy are in agreement I'm pretty sure is one of the signs of the apocalypse

I was just thinking the very same thing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on May 25, 2022, 09:30:30 PM

63% Americans identified as Christians (2020 Pew Study). That number has been declining for decades (75% in 2015, 70.6% in 2014, 78% in 2012, 81.6% in 2001, and 85% in 1990).

29% of Americans identified as unaffiliated, atheist, or agnostic.

Meanwhile, violent crime in the United States has also been on a sharp decline during those exact periods.

The lowest crime rates in the world are Switzerland, Denmark, Norway, and Japan (the latter 3 have some of the most restrictive gun laws in the world).  

Switzerland is 29% unaffiliated and 62% Christian.  Denmark is 74% Christian (only 4% regularly attend church, and only 19% said religion was an important part of life).  I could not find good data on their unaffiliated.  Norway is 18% unaffiliated and 71% Christian.  Japan is 62% irreligion and 1% Christian (obviously Christianity would be an outlier here).

Christianity is on the decline in all of those countries while unaffiliated is on the rise.  All those countries list at the top of the most happiest and healthiest countries in the world.

Venezuela, Papua New Guinea, and South Africa have the highest crime rates in the world.

Venezuela has the highest crime rate with 89% of it's population as Christian and 8% no religion.

Papua New Guinea is 96% Christian. 

South Africa is 84% Christian and 10% irreligion.

It would seem that the safest and healthiest countries have lower Christian populations, that are also on the decline.  With unaffiliated being on the rise.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 25, 2022, 10:08:00 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 25, 2022, 05:03:39 PM

Now, I'm a teacher.  Apparently this guy just walked up into a random classroom.  What the fuck am I going to do about it?  Say you train me to be an expert marksman.  Say I have a gun in a safe place (which could only be in some sort of safe and NOT in any easy-to-access spot).  A random ass guy in body armor has suddnely entered my classroom while I'm kneeling down, helping a student with their writing. 
WHAT IN THE FUCK AM I GOING TO DO?  I'm the only adult in the room, I'm dead first.  Sorry, this isn't a movie.  The formica tables I'd be tossing up as barricades as I slow-motion run to my gun aren't stopping any bullets.  Even if I'm carrying the gun on me, it's a pistol and this guy has an assault rifle, 6 of my students are murdered in front of me, and I'm supposed to go into action hero mode?!?
.
Anyone who says teachers should be armed and trained lives in an outright fantasy.  It's like a car accident - you don't see it coming.  I'd say half the time another adult enters my classroom in an ordinary situation does so without me knowing.....BECAUSE I'M FOCUSING ON MY JOB. 
.
LIFE IS NOT AN ACTION MOVIE.  GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS. 

Parents: You need to make surprise visits to your child’s school. Walk all over the campus and see how long it takes for someone to stop you & question you. See how many doors are unlocked. This is bigger than a gun issue.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 25, 2022, 10:11:41 PM

The lack of security at that school really wasnt the issue

Hell he brought the police with him

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 25, 2022, 10:27:05 PM

a semi automatic rifle wasn't the issue either

could have done as much damage with a lever action

must have had some decent training to get past the police

didn't just turn 18 and buy a couple guns

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on May 25, 2022, 11:12:03 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 25, 2022, 10:27:05 PM

a semi automatic rifle wasn't the issue either

could have done as much damage with a lever action

must have had some decent training to get past the police

didn't just turn 18 and buy a couple guns

It is my understanding (which I admit most of what I have gleaned is from message boards today), he literally did just buy the guns right after his 18th birthday a week or two ago.  He may have had experience firing guns before, but he literally only could have a weeks worth of training using AR-15's (unless he had previously had access to them from some other source and that has not been reported yet).

Edit:  From the news I've been reading this hour, it does not appear that Police were initially involved.  After shooting his grandmother, he drove to the school.  A resource officer engaged him outside where he dropped an ammo bag and ran inside a back door.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: highVOLtage on May 25, 2022, 11:30:30 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on May 25, 2022, 01:49:11 PM

it's not guns.
it's morality and mental health.

100%.

And most of the folks blaming guns are the same ones who applaud when Zelenksy handed out tens of thousands of submachine guns and ammo to civilians and also think it's better to spend $40 Billion U.S. taxpayer dollars we don't have to defend Ukraine rather than on our own safety here at home.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: highVOLtage on May 25, 2022, 11:43:43 PM

Quote from: grillrat on May 25, 2022, 11:12:03 PM

Edit:  From the news I've been reading this hour, it does not appear that Police were initially involved.  After shooting his grandmother, he drove to the school.  A resource officer engaged him outside where he dropped an ammo bag and ran inside a back door.

If this report is true, it's not a good look for the police:

https://twitter.com/MegaMohsi/status/1529642516013801472

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 26, 2022, 12:16:23 AM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on May 25, 2022, 09:30:30 PM

63% Americans identified as Christians (2020 Pew Study). That number has been declining for decades (75% in 2015, 70.6% in 2014, 78% in 2012, 81.6% in 2001, and 85% in 1990).

29% of Americans identified as unaffiliated, atheist, or agnostic.

Meanwhile, violent crime in the United States has also been on a sharp decline during those exact periods.

The lowest crime rates in the world are Switzerland, Denmark, Norway, and Japan (the latter 3 have some of the most restrictive gun laws in the world). 

Switzerland is 29% unaffiliated and 62% Christian.  Denmark is 74% Christian (only 4% regularly attend church, and only 19% said religion was an important part of life).  I could not find good data on their unaffiliated.  Norway is 18% unaffiliated and 71% Christian.  Japan is 62% irreligion and 1% Christian (obviously Christianity would be an outlier here).

Christianity is on the decline in all of those countries while unaffiliated is on the rise.  All those countries list at the top of the most happiest and healthiest countries in the world.

Venezuela, Papua New Guinea, and South Africa have the highest crime rates in the world.

Venezuela has the highest crime rate with 89% of it's population as Christian and 8% no religion.

Papua New Guinea is 96% Christian.

South Africa is 84% Christian and 10% irreligion.

It would seem that the safest and healthiest countries have lower Christian populations, that are also on the decline.  With unaffiliated being on the rise.

Don't bombard them with facts!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Hawkinole on May 26, 2022, 12:24:28 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 25, 2022, 10:08:00 PM

Parents: You need to make surprise visits to your child’s school. Walk all over the campus and see how long it takes for someone to stop you & question you. See how many doors are unlocked. This is bigger than a gun issue.

There is something to be said for this, but that said, I am no longer a parent of a school age child (my daughter is 26 - she still presents to me like a school aged child). I don't want to get interrogated or arrested for trespass.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Hawkinole on May 26, 2022, 12:27:53 AM

Quote from: highVOLtage on May 25, 2022, 11:43:43 PM

If this report is true, it's not a good look for the police:

https://twitter.com/MegaMohsi/status/1529642516013801472

One news station tonight reported that the school district has its own police force, but the reporter was questioning how much training the school resource officer had compared to a regular police officer. I am sure there is more to come. The school district and local law enforcement have been very quiet. Reports, however, will eventually be made public.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 26, 2022, 12:59:32 AM

The school districts with security issues already have it laid out so that you cannot enter campus without going in through the front office, and they have to buzz you in through a locked door.  A person could enter the office and hop the counter, though.  
But there's no freely wandering onto campus.
.
Districts that don't care about safety or are in nicer areas may have it where you can enter the building and simply walk past the office.  
.
Many have an on-campus cop.  They're a real police officer, or at least were when they requested the post or were assigned to it.  If they like it and get comfortable, I could see this person getting soft/bored/etc.  All they deal with is parents yelling at the office staff or the older kids who truly stopped giving a shit and go nuts acting out.
.
All of this, of course, is the illusion of safety.  A fence can be jumped.  A door can fail to close properly.  A simple counter can be hopped.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on May 26, 2022, 05:25:37 AM

It was much easier to purchase firearms 50+ years ago including Colt’s AR15.  Yet there were relatively few mass shootings, Whitman in Austin in 1966 being the only one I can think of.  What has changed?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2022, 06:54:07 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on May 26, 2022, 05:25:37 AM

It was much easier to purchase firearms 50+ years ago including Colt’s AR15.  Yet there were relatively few mass shootings, Whitman in Austin in 1966 being the only one I can think of.  What has changed?

50 years ago people were committed to mental institutions. That is not how things work today. The 3 that I knew about near where I used to live have been torn down.

I don't have a solution though. Those places were hell holes. But something has to give on mental health, for sure. It's a huge problem.

I do have a question though.

Where did this 18 y/o kid get the money for the guns and ammo? He probably had to spend $1500-$2000 for what he had.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 26, 2022, 07:11:52 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on May 26, 2022, 05:25:37 AM

It was much easier to purchase firearms 50+ years ago including Colt’s AR15.  Yet there were relatively few mass shootings, Whitman in Austin in 1966 being the only one I can think of.  What has changed?

Doesn't matter since violent crime overall is down (lol) as Atheism is on the rise. 

Honestly I am surprised that they are even covering this, since it was a hispanic crossdresser. You'd think it would get swept right under the Chicago gun violence/Islamic terrorism rug. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 26, 2022, 08:04:20 AM

Quote from: grillrat on May 25, 2022, 05:40:04 PM

You are realistically looking at two options.  1)  Rent-a-cop is armed and trained well and is posted at the entrance or 2) having a teacher that is qualified enough to handle a firearm.  The problem with option 1 is that Rent-a-cop is an extra $50,000 a year from your school budget for something that is realistically not going to be used much (or hopefully ever).  The problem with #2 is that the teacher's primary job is to teach, so while he could be of help once the shooter starts roving the hallways, the shooter could have sprayed three rooms of students before the armed teacher gets there.

I get the idea, and there are certainly a couple of teachers that I might trust to handle the situation correctly, but for example, my kid's elementary school (at that time) had literally 12 teachers total, and 8 were female aged 26 or younger.  While I might be painting a broad brush, I'm fairly certain that not a single one would be competent to handle a gun.  And the turnover rate in schools is decently high.  You don't want to go to the trouble of training a teacher to be prepared for this kind of situation, only for that teacher to leave at the end of the year to go to a different school.

We all like to think that "well, if I were in this situation, it would have turned out differently because of X, Y, and Z."  And to be honest, if you specifically had been there, then absolutely it might have been diffused.  But you are basing that on YOUR training, and YOUR experiences.  If you instituted an across-the-board directive that an armed guard is present at every school, you are going to get some highly qualified individuals who probably have equal to the skills that you possess.  But you are also going to get some who are.....less.  And the more financially strapped a school is, the more bottom-of-the-barrel of guard they are going to get.  Some kid as a prank slips a roofie into his morning coffee, and suddenly you have an unsecured weapon that anyone can pull from his holster.  Or maybe you get a security guard with racial issues and lousy trigger discipline. 

You are looking at this from a best case scenario perspective of a former LEO or military becoming a guard.  I am sadly looking from the opposite side, an institution that already struggles with getting its teachers basic school supplies suddenly has to fork out more money for a guard and gets the cheapest thing they can get.  I just think that the odds of getting a crappy guard that results in an accidental discharge are higher than the odds that a homicidal nutbag is walking through the door.

Two points. 1.) If we have enough money to leave $80 billion worth of equipment in Afghanistan and send another $40 Billion to Ukraine, we can come up with money to protect our schools. We just need to come together on our priorities. 

2.) While you are correct that not everyone that would be hired to protect a school would be adequately skilled to prevent such a disaster, I would rather work in that direction that leave our schools guarded with only a sign that reads "Gun Free Zone". 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 26, 2022, 08:15:53 AM

Fro does raise an interesting point that most of these teachers are basically just personified cats, in that they would be completely useless in any situation that required them to "step up."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2022, 08:50:06 AM

Arming teachers is absolutely not the answer. Keeping doors locked is an answer. Keeping a guard at the doors? Not sure about that. This should not be the normal. 

I would not want my kids to have to go through a guard and a metal detector to get into school. That's not a good message.

We have enough of that with entering government buildings (<<scratches head wondering how and why THAT gets funded>>) and transportation centers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 26, 2022, 09:25:39 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2022, 08:50:06 AM

Arming teachers is absolutely not the answer. Keeping doors locked is an answer. Keeping a guard at the doors? Not sure about that. This should not be the normal.

This conversation gets a little wonky. Setting aside the reality that as long as you have doors people can get out of, there's always a decent chance you can come in the, there's a bit of an architecture issue.

A lot of schools in warmer places are built around breezeways instead of hallways. The school in Texas was not 1-2 self-contained buildings. If you jumped a fence, you could move around a lot of it. I know some schools also went with doors that have large windows, in part because you don't want kids sneaking into rooms and getting up to no good. 

That's not to say that vigilance isn't a small part of a solution, but the issue is most of that vigilance is most felt by and most effective on people who are already following the rules. And solving for someone breaking norms is a much trickier affair. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2022, 09:59:37 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2022, 08:50:06 AM

Arming teachers is absolutely not the answer. Keeping doors locked is an answer. Keeping a guard at the doors? Not sure about that. This should not be the normal.

I would not want my kids to have to go through a guard and a metal detector to get into school. That's not a good message.

We have enough of that with entering government buildings (<<scratches head wondering how and why THAT gets funded>>) and transportation centers.

not sure how many schools have this situation, but hollywood would make you believe it is real

maybe not a good message, but mean tweets are better than having children shot

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 26, 2022, 10:15:49 AM

The only purpose the armed guard serves is to be the first person shot.

Also, to put it mildly, law enforcement is not acquitting themselves in all of this either. Add another part that needs a wholesale overhaul.

https://twitter.com/paleofuture/status/1529652093354536961?s=20&t=DS0oQxrIphEzuvsotsqwRg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 26, 2022, 10:18:52 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on May 26, 2022, 10:15:49 AM

Also, to put it mildly, law enforcement is not acquitting themselves in all of this either. Add another part that needs a wholesale overhaul.

Duh. Like with pretty much all government, law enforcement does not attract the brightest and best. Usually attracts the opposite.

Don't even need to hire more police- just reassign them to schools. We have enough donut eating pigs on power trips writing traffic and parking tickets. Don't need that many. Reassign them to schools.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 26, 2022, 10:22:23 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 26, 2022, 08:15:53 AM

Fro does raise an interesting point that most of these teachers are basically just personified cats, in that they would be completely useless in any situation that required them to "step up."

this is a silly take. what are teachers suppose to do? they are f**king educators, not law enforcement or military.

arming teachers is beyond stupid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 26, 2022, 10:27:17 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on May 26, 2022, 05:25:37 AM

It was much easier to purchase firearms 50+ years ago including Colt’s AR15.  Yet there were relatively few mass shootings, Whitman in Austin in 1966 being the only one I can think of.  What has changed?

40 years ago, 48% of homes in the US had at least one firearm. That number is now 32%. Fewer and fewer people/homes are owning guns- and it's more difficult to get/purchase guns now.

What has changed? Mental institutions have been closed down, our society keeps pushing consumerism and materialism down peoples throats more and more which does nothing but cause decay of the entire society, people spend all day sitting in front of a screen and watching crazy sh*t on the internet and not going outside and interacting with actual people in real life, and the entire middle class has been eroded- there are no good paying manufacturing jobs in the US- literally millions of them left- people are in despair or poverty and that's usually when they turn to drugs/violence.

There are a lot of causes, it's not just one thing. And religion definitely has zero to do with it. Less than zero, actually.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 26, 2022, 10:28:15 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2022, 06:54:07 AM

50 years ago people were committed to mental institutions. That is not how things work today. The 3 that I knew about near where I used to live have been torn down.

I don't have a solution though. Those places were hell holes. But something has to give on mental health, for sure. It's a huge problem.

Bring back the mental institutions imo. Do that and these sort of disgusting crimes against humanity would happen less. There are sick evil mentally deranged people in this world who simply put do not belong on the streets.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 26, 2022, 10:33:03 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 26, 2022, 07:11:52 AM

Doesn't matter since violent crime overall is down (lol) as Atheism is on the rise.

Honestly I am surprised that they are even covering this, since it was a hispanic crossdresser. You'd think it would get swept right under the Chicago gun violence/Islamic terrorism rug.

Violence has been going down drastically over the centuries as the world has gotten less religious. This is an indisputable fact. Norway, Sweden, and Japan are majority agnostic/atheist - tons of gun violence and violent crime in those countries. Oh wait...no, there isn't.

Steven Pinker wrote a great book on violence, it's called The Better Nature of Our Angels. You should read it. 

We literally live in the most peaceful time in recorded human history. You just hear about the heinous stuff immediately and you hear about it more because of 24/hr cable/internet cycles.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 26, 2022, 10:47:56 AM

this is pretty fkn disgusting....YouTube just removed/scrubbed the 2014 call between US diplomats Victoria Nuland and Geoffrey Pyatt proving US was complicit in the Maidan coup in Ukraine...the “Yats is our guy” tape- which showed beyond a shadow of a doubt the US was behind the overthrow of a democratically elected President in Ukraine- and hand-picked the replacement interim govt.

Google is basically in the pocket of the US govt. Pathetic fkn company. Really starting to think about terminating all business with them. 

https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1529515727052472320?s=20&t=T3CEcjanW5-Z81I68oTMbA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 26, 2022, 10:57:00 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 26, 2022, 10:47:56 AM

this is pretty fkn disgusting....YouTube just removed/scrubbed the 2014 call between US diplomats Victoria Nuland and Geoffrey Pyatt proving US was complicit in the Maidan coup in Ukraine...the “Yats is our guy” tape- which showed beyond a shadow of a doubt the US was behind the overthrow of a democratically elected President in Ukraine- and hand-picked the replacement interim govt.

Google is basically in the pocket of the US govt. Pathetic fkn company. Really starting to think about terminating all business with them.

https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1529515727052472320?s=20&t=T3CEcjanW5-Z81I68oTMbA

Youre just now realizing this?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 26, 2022, 11:02:47 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 26, 2022, 10:57:00 AM

Youre just now realizing this? 

No. It's just a lot worse than I ever thought. I use Google for a lot of crap. I wish there was another alternative. I hate that fkn company. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 26, 2022, 11:03:29 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 26, 2022, 10:22:23 AM

this is a silly take. what are teachers suppose to do? they are f**king educators, not law enforcement or military.

arming teachers is beyond stupid.

So you agree with my silly take? Good.
Of course teachers would be worthless in that scenario. A lot of cops too, unfortunately.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 26, 2022, 11:53:13 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 26, 2022, 10:33:03 AM

Violence has been going down drastically over the centuries as the world has gotten less religious. This is an indisputable fact. Norway, Sweden, and Japan are majority agnostic/atheist - tons of gun violence and violent crime in those countries. Oh wait...no, there isn't.

Steven Pinker wrote a great book on violence, it's called The Better Nature of Our Angels. You should read it.

We literally live in the most peaceful time in recorded human history. You just hear about the heinous stuff immediately and you hear about it more because of 24/hr cable/internet cycles.

Violence in the USA has been rising dramatically for a number of years now.  Those are the facts.

I read where there were over 4500 children 18 and under killed  y gunfire in the United States since 2019, and 43 of those were school shootings. 

this is much bigger than just the schools.

and some of our major cities violent crimes of all kinds ( with or without a gun) are up 30, 50, 70%.  Suicides are up.  Drug overdoses are up. 

Easy access to guns by bad people is definitely part of the mass shooting challenge- but why so much violence?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 26, 2022, 12:01:07 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 26, 2022, 11:53:13 AM

Violence in the USA has been rising dramatically for a number of years now.  Those are the facts.

I read where there were over 4500 children 18 and under killed  y gunfire in the United States since 2019, and 43 of those were school shootings. 

this is much bigger than just the schools.

and some of our major cities violent crimes of all kinds ( with or without a gun) are up 30, 50, 70%.  Suicides are up.  Drug overdoses are up. 

Easy access to guns by bad people is definitely part of the mass shooting challenge- but why so much violence?

You're citing numbers over a few years, mdot's citing the larger picture of decades and centuries.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 26, 2022, 12:04:43 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 26, 2022, 08:04:20 AM

Two points. 1.) If we have enough money to leave $80 billion worth of equipment in Afghanistan and send another $40 Billion to Ukraine, we can come up with money to protect our schools. We just need to come together on our priorities.

I think you accidently acknowledged the ugly truth to all of this.
Keeping our kids truly safe (not the illusion of safety) isn't a priority in our country.  Not at the expense of more dollars and certainly not at the expense of even the idea of giving up a tiny sliver of your gun collection.  The sliver not meant for hunting or home defense, btw.  The sliver of your gun collection that feeds into your massochhistic wet dream of the gubmint coming to git you, and you fighting off the entire US military and being a hero in your own mind.
.
But yes, plainly put, our country doesn't make this a priority.  Yawn.  Done.  Over.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 26, 2022, 12:04:53 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 26, 2022, 11:53:13 AM

Violence in the USA has been rising dramatically for a number of years now.  Those are the facts.

I read where there were over 4500 children 18 and under killed  y gunfire in the United States since 2019, and 43 of those were school shootings. 

this is much bigger than just the schools.

and some of our major cities violent crimes of all kinds ( with or without a gun) are up 30, 50, 70%.  Suicides are up.  Drug overdoses are up. 

Easy access to guns by bad people is definitely part of the mass shooting challenge- but why so much violence?

Yes, learned on the streets,by/from friends,TV,movies,one parent house holds father,lack of personal control

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 26, 2022, 12:11:10 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 26, 2022, 07:11:52 AM

Doesn't matter since violent crime overall is down (lol) as Atheism is on the rise.

The point of this thing you scoff at is that no one does anything in the name of atheism.  No guilt from failing a god.  No suppression of who you are or how you want to be.  No haunting voice telling you to do wicked shit.
.
Atheism simply doesn't cause you to do anything because of it.  Religion can and does.  Somethings good, sometimes bad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 26, 2022, 12:21:32 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 26, 2022, 08:04:20 AM

Two points. 1.) If we have enough money to leave $80 billion worth of equipment in Afghanistan and send another $40 Billion to Ukraine, we can come up with money to protect our schools. We just need to come together on our priorities.

2.) While you are correct that not everyone that would be hired to protect a school would be adequately skilled to prevent such a disaster, I would rather work in that direction that leave our schools guarded with only a sign that reads "Gun Free Zone".

Exactly Eisenhower warned about the Military-Industrial Complex who are in bed mostly with the Right. That and every one the left caters to piling over the borders or those continuallylooking for freebies.Keep the funds here for the people who worked for it. And tax the the 1%ers appropriately - there are enough funds

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 26, 2022, 12:28:40 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 26, 2022, 12:01:07 PM

You're citing numbers over a few years, mdot's citing the larger picture of decades and centuries. 

exactly. just look at 60 years ago- they used to hang black people from trees in the South. 80 years ago we were in the middle of a World War which killed tens of millions of people- and millions in Germany and German occupied territories were killed just because they were "other" or "lesser than". Nazi party was interwoven in the German Catholic church. The uniforms of all the Nazis wore belt buckles that said "Got Mitt Uns" - God is With Us. The Nazis were not atheists. They were CHRISTIAN. 30 years before that World War- we were in another World War- which killed tens of millions of people as well.

We used to own people in this country 160 years ago. That's not that long ago. That's like 2 people ago. Look at the Wild West- people used to fight each other to death with guns in duels. This was considered widely acceptable. Look at pedophilia- that shit was widely acceptable- 30+ year old men were marrying 14 year olds just 100 years ago.

Look at all the wars in Europe vs the great powers during the centuries. Look at the time before recorded history when we were not much more than cave dwelling apes- which coincidentally is right around when some jerkoff came up with the torah off which the bible is based- you could just kill someone and take their shit for shits and giggles- just because you wanted their shit and felt like it. Or what about the crusades- where Christians invaded foreign lands and slaughtered millions of people just because....they weren't Christian.

We have continued to evolve and progress and become more moral and decent people as we lose religion over time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2022, 12:51:49 PM

WSJ:

Young Men, Guns and Guardrails - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/young-men-guns-and-guardrails-uvalde-texas-robb-elementary-shooting-salvador-ramos-mental-illness-11653514326?mod=opinion_lead)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2022, 01:03:28 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 26, 2022, 12:28:40 PM

We have continued to evolve and progress and become more moral and decent people as we lose religion over time.

I'm not sure this is because we are losing religion, but I'm not certain it isn't either

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2022, 01:27:36 PM

RE: the article from the WSJ I posted above.. it's disturbing to me because I have a nephew who is similar to this killer.

He's a nice boy, but he's got a speech impediment, for which he gets bullied. His family is broken. He spends every waking moment on video games, playing online with others, who are probably like him. These are violent games too.

All traits of this killer.

He just got out of 8th grade. He was supposed to go to a special needs school, but my brother's pride got in the way of that. So now he's going to be in a huge high school without that special support he so very much needs. He is not normal in any way. 

In fact, I think he's autistic to some degree, and maybe even Asperger's. He should not be in a huge high school with "normal" kids.

I don't talk to my brother much, for a lot of reasons, but I feel like I need to say something here.

So, what do I do?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on May 26, 2022, 01:51:45 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2022, 01:27:36 PM

RE: the article from the WSJ I posted above.. it's disturbing to me because I have a nephew who is similar to this killer.

He's a nice boy, but he's got a speech impediment, for which he gets bullied. His family is broken. He spends every waking moment on video games, playing online with others, who are probably like him. These are violent games too.

All traits of this killer.

He just got out of 8th grade. He was supposed to go to a special needs school, but my brother's pride got in the way of that. So now he's going to be in a huge high school without that special support he so very much needs. He is not normal in any way.

In fact, I think he's autistic to some degree, and maybe even Asperger's. He should not be in a huge high school with "normal" kids.

I don't talk to my brother much, for a lot of reasons, but I feel like I need to say something here.

So, what do I do?

First, violent video games have nothing to do with any of this.  This is a long debunked talking point.  The safest, non violent, countries in the world all have access to the same games.  In fact, they are extremely popular in Japan.  Yet those countries do not have these incidents.

As to your nephew, characteristics of all these mass shooters shows the same types of personalities.  They all have narcissistic tendencies.  Low self esteem, surprisingly, isn't a common factor.  Narcissism is.  All of them are set off to violent reactions by feeling humiliation.  Bullying can certainly lead to that humiliation, as seen in many school shootings.

So is your nephew narcissistic, does he feel humiliated, and does he have access to guns?  If so, that's the recipe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2022, 01:56:43 PM

He could be. Shows some traits for sure.

As for guns, I do not know if my brother has any. I doubt it.

But, seems like they are pretty easy to come by. Regardless, people who get to the point of wanting to kill will use anything at their disposal. 

Like a car, knife, pressure cooker, etc.

I don't like violent video games. Of course, I'm old school like that. I've also never played a video game, so...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2022, 02:13:25 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2022, 01:27:36 PM

I don't talk to my brother much, for a lot of reasons, but I feel like I need to say something here.

So, what do I do?

just be honest

your brother might not take it well, but it could cause him to give it some thought after his initial reaction

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2022, 02:17:31 PM

FORE!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 26, 2022, 02:52:20 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2022, 12:51:49 PM

WSJ:

Young Men, Guns and Guardrails - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/young-men-guns-and-guardrails-uvalde-texas-robb-elementary-shooting-salvador-ramos-mental-illness-11653514326?mod=opinion_lead)

Paywall, can you share some of the key points?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2022, 02:54:32 PM

I kinda did with the post about my nephew. There are some other points. Let me see if I can share a free link. Try below.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/young-men-guns-and-guardrails-uvalde-texas-robb-elementary-shooting-salvador-ramos-mental-illness-11653514326?st=gmfubgho51u0zwj&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 26, 2022, 02:54:47 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 26, 2022, 10:28:15 AM

Bring back the mental institutions imo. Do that and these sort of disgusting crimes against humanity would happen less. There are sick evil mentally deranged people in this world who simply put do not belong on the streets.

Those were very dicey from a constitutional rights perspective, and I can’t imagine that has changed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 26, 2022, 03:04:19 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2022, 01:27:36 PM

I don't talk to my brother much, for a lot of reasons, but I feel like I need to say something here.

So, what do I do?

damn everything you mentioned should be obvious to your brother. damned if you do or don't, copy what you just said and jot down the similarities,tell him you're trying to help out not belittle.But if your Bro is that bereft with out pause for reflection or honest discourse then there the problem lies,ball is in his court. Hard to monitor/help if he's not near by either.Your bro might say your not close to the situation

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2022, 03:08:45 PM

Well, it's hard, because he's my brother and therefore I love him, but I really don't like him. We are not buddies or friends. Holidays only - if even that. If I don't pick up the phone to call him, there is no communication.

Once in a very long while he texts me (he's a geek too). Only if the moon is blue.

But that's also my nephew who I care about.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 26, 2022, 03:53:24 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2022, 02:54:32 PM

I kinda did with the post about my nephew. There are some other points. Let me see if I can share a free link. Try below.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/young-men-guns-and-guardrails-uvalde-texas-robb-elementary-shooting-salvador-ramos-mental-illness-11653514326?st=gmfubgho51u0zwj&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Good article. 

points out that gun laws may help but won’t solve it. Points out the societal potential causes for things that many of these shooters have in common

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2022, 04:15:51 PM

WSJ has become my go-to National paper.

The NYT is not what it used to be (not even close), and the Chicago Tribune is a shell of itself. It's sad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on May 26, 2022, 05:04:59 PM

Keep in mind that article is an opinion piece.  I'm not saying it's bad, but it is the writers personal opinion.

I have my news feed set to multiple sources.  Purpose being to see what events are happening.  From there I usually try to find local sources, as they tend to be less biased and focused more about finding facts of the situation.  They are also usually connect to local authorities and sources.  If I use national sources I like to stick with AP and Reuters.  They are far more centered than say CNN, MSNBC (far left) or FOX, OAN (far right).  WSJ falls in the center as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 26, 2022, 05:49:35 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 26, 2022, 01:03:28 PM

I'm not sure this is because we are losing religion, but I'm not certain it isn't either

Good people will do good things.
Bad people will do bad things.
But when religion is gone, good people will no longer do bad things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 26, 2022, 06:16:50 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 26, 2022, 05:49:35 PM

Good people will do good things.
Bad people will do bad things.
But when religion is gone, good people will no longer do bad things.

and Lo it is written

OAM is a shit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 26, 2022, 10:30:36 PM

I admit, this went a slightly less rancorous path than I expected, so that's a bit of a win. 

I find myself at a loss for direction, looking at all this. One side poses access solutions. The other people solutions (mental health, identifying). The former is much more actionable, but with less hope of an impact. The latter would be helpful, in theory, but in terms of scale and general functionality, deeply unrealistic. 

In my younger years, I'd probably be all gung ho about gun control. But I got older, lived in a few armed homes. At least once felt that pacifying sense of thinking an armed roommate would deliver a measure of protection. And in truth, as we've said, the availability is there. Without counting law enforcement or the military, our guns outnumber people and are getting more concentrated. To put such a dent in the supply that it could tangibly matter, that would take generations with concerted effort.

And there won't be a concerted effort. The fact is, firearms make a lot of people feel very good. It's an interesting cultural quirk. Mdot said a gun was like a hammer or hatchet, a tool. But people don't get the way about hammers that they do about guns, at least not at scale (truth be told, the bad feelings about them are likewise over the top). In the end, they're most often a tool to kill, or to give off the possibility of killing, which is the mechanism by which they "protect." Ideally we'd have a clear-eyed functional respect, but in too many cases, firearms inspire a sort of fetishism. 


That might be more worrisome than anything else. I'm not sure if we've got a deeper well of anger than past generations. It feels like it, but we also have access to more of the world. Our history certianly features a lot of anger, and there's plenty of it in the world day-to-day, but we seem to be enjoying it in different ways. Shakespeare wrote "these violent delights have violent ends," and if feels like we're embodying that in a lot of ways. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 26, 2022, 10:36:47 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2022, 02:54:32 PM

I kinda did with the post about my nephew. There are some other points. Let me see if I can share a free link. Try below.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/young-men-guns-and-guardrails-uvalde-texas-robb-elementary-shooting-salvador-ramos-mental-illness-11653514326?st=gmfubgho51u0zwj&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Gotcha. I thought that was interesting, though the beginning of lamenting the "do something" mindset (which is bad, but for other reasons) seems a bit go a straw man. It flows into the build better boys, but feels a bit fuzzy on that too. Still interesting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2022, 10:42:37 PM

The UK Chancellor of the Exchequer, Rishi Sunak announced on Thursday a windfall tax of 25% for oil and gas companies.
25% Energy Profits Levy may slow down investments in North Sea oil.
The "windfall tax" is temporary and will be phased out when oil and gas prices return to historically more normal levels.
Join Our Community

Following months of rumors and indecision, the UK government announced on Thursday a 25% Energy Profits Levy, commonly referred to as a “windfall tax”, as part of a package to ease the cost-of-living crisis stemming from huge rises in household energy bills.

The UK Chancellor of the Exchequer, Rishi Sunak, announced on Thursday a new temporary 25% Energy Profits Levy for oil and gas companies, reflecting their extraordinary profits as oil and gas prices surged.

The move has long been opposed by the industry, which argues that a windfall tax would add uncertainty to the UK tax regime and will hit new investments in the UK North Sea at a time when the UK grapples with reducing reliance on foreign imports of oil and gas.

Despite numerous calls and letters from the offshore operators and offshore services firms not to impose a windfall levy, the UK government proceeded with it and said that the new levy “will include a generous new 80% investment allowance.”

“This balanced approach allows the government to deliver support to families, while encouraging investment and growth,” the UK government said.

The Energy Profits Levy will apply to profits arising on or after May 26, 2022. The tax is temporary and will be phased out when oil and gas prices return to historically more normal levels. The legislation will also include a sunset clause, which will remove the tax after December 31, 2025, the UK government said. The new tax will be charged on oil and gas company profits at a rate of 25% and is expected to raise around $6.3 billion (£5 billion) in its first 12 months, which will go towards easing the burden on families. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2022, 10:48:54 PM

Texas Department of Public Safety official said responding officers were cautious as they entered Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas because “they could’ve been shot.”

Nineteen children and two teachers were murdered after authorities say an 18-year-old male entered with a rifle 12 minutes after he crashed a car near campus.

The New York Times reported the shooter was inside the school for about an hour before officers finally breached the classroom he was in and shot and killed him.

Reporters demanded answers during a contentious press conference Thursday afternoon. State law enforcement officials addressed the public a day after some parents with children in the school said they were prevented from going in by officers.

One girl inside the room reportedly bled for an hour after she was shot. She died at a hospital. It is unknown if that hour might have saved her life.

On Thursday’s The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer, the host discussed the Tuesday’s horrifying events with DPS Lt. Chris Olivarez.

Blitzer asked his guest if officers at the scene made the correct choice to wait for a tactical team before they went after the gunman.

Olivarez said officers were inside the school quickly, and they heard gunfire when they arrived. They called for reinforcements, he said. The officers in the building waited for a special tactical team to show up as they isolated the shooter to one classroom.

“Don’t current best practices, don’t they call for officers to disable a shooter as quickly as possible, regardless of how many officers are actually on site?” Blitzer asked him.

Olivarez said the officers who arrived at the school quickly might have been shot had they attempted to take out the gunman alone. He said,

The active shooter situation, you want to stop the killing, you want to preserve life, but also one thing that – of course, the American people need to understand — that officers are making entry into this building. They do not know where the gunman is. They are hearing gunshots.

They are receiving gunshots. At that point, if they proceeded any further not knowing where the suspect was at, they could’ve been shot, they could’ve been killed, and that gunman would have had an opportunity to kill other people inside that school.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 26, 2022, 10:53:06 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 26, 2022, 06:16:50 PM

and Lo it is written

OAM is a shit

It's a play off a well-known quote, you ape.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 26, 2022, 10:57:36 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 26, 2022, 10:48:54 PM

Texas Department of Public Safety official said responding officers were cautious as they entered Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas because “they could’ve been shot.”

Nineteen children and two teachers were murdered after authorities say an 18-year-old male entered with a rifle 12 minutes after he crashed a car near campus.

The New York Times reported the shooter was inside the school for about an hour before officers finally breached the classroom he was in and shot and killed him.

Reporters demanded answers during a contentious press conference Thursday afternoon. State law enforcement officials addressed the public a day after some parents with children in the school said they were prevented from going in by officers.

One girl inside the room reportedly bled for an hour after she was shot. She died at a hospital. It is unknown if that hour might have saved her life.

On Thursday’s The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer, the host discussed the Tuesday’s horrifying events with DPS Lt. Chris Olivarez.

Blitzer asked his guest if officers at the scene made the correct choice to wait for a tactical team before they went after the gunman.

Olivarez said officers were inside the school quickly, and they heard gunfire when they arrived. They called for reinforcements, he said. The officers in the building waited for a special tactical team to show up as they isolated the shooter to one classroom.

“Don’t current best practices, don’t they call for officers to disable a shooter as quickly as possible, regardless of how many officers are actually on site?” Blitzer asked him.

Olivarez said the officers who arrived at the school quickly might have been shot had they attempted to take out the gunman alone. He said,

The active shooter situation, you want to stop the killing, you want to preserve life, but also one thing that – of course, the American people need to understand — that officers are making entry into this building. They do not know where the gunman is. They are hearing gunshots.

They are receiving gunshots. At that point, if they proceeded any further not knowing where the suspect was at, they could’ve been shot, they could’ve been killed, and that gunman would have had an opportunity to kill other people inside that school.

So the officers with guns and vests found it too dangerous.  Gee, maybe someone should have told them their job can get dicey at times!!  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 27, 2022, 07:11:01 AM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on May 26, 2022, 05:04:59 PM

Keep in mind that article is an opinion piece.  I'm not saying it's bad, but it is the writers personal opinion.

I have my news feed set to multiple sources.  Purpose being to see what events are happening.  From there I usually try to find local sources, as they tend to be less biased and focused more about finding facts of the situation.  They are also usually connect to local authorities and sources.  If I use national sources I like to stick with AP and Reuters.  They are far more centered than say CNN, MSNBC (far left) or FOX, OAN (far right).  WSJ falls in the center as well.

How do you do a news feed? What sources?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 27, 2022, 07:42:30 AM

I just read that the company who manufactured the rifles used in the Texas attack pulled out of the NRA convention this weekend.

Out of curiosity, I went to their website, Daniel Defense. Their AR's start at $2K each. Add in the 20 magazines he bought, and the 1000+ rounds of ammo.

Again, where did this money come from?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 27, 2022, 08:20:54 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 26, 2022, 10:27:17 AM

40 years ago, 48% of homes in the US had at least one firearm. That number is now 32%. Fewer and fewer people/homes are owning guns- and it's more difficult to get/purchase guns now.

What has changed? Mental institutions have been closed down, our society keeps pushing consumerism and materialism down peoples throats more and more which does nothing but cause decay of the entire society, people spend all day sitting in front of a screen and watching crazy sh*t on the internet and not going outside and interacting with actual people in real life, and the entire middle class has been eroded- there are no good paying manufacturing jobs in the US- literally millions of them left- people are in despair or poverty and that's usually when they turn to drugs/violence.

There are a lot of causes, it's not just one thing. And religion definitely has zero to do with it. Less than zero, actually.

I was in agreement with you until your final sentence. You may not be a religious person and that is fine. However, the basic tenets of religion, specifically Christianity, call for people to adhere to basic morals. My brother in law is agnostic, but he agrees that the Ten Commandments are basic rules that society should live by, and that is my point. You don't want to participate in religion, fine. But show me which of the Ten Commandments you disagree with. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 27, 2022, 08:24:45 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 26, 2022, 12:04:43 PM

I think you accidently acknowledged the ugly truth to all of this.
Keeping our kids truly safe (not the illusion of safety) isn't a priority in our country.  Not at the expense of more dollars and certainly not at the expense of even the idea of giving up a tiny sliver of your gun collection.  The sliver not meant for hunting or home defense, btw.  The sliver of your gun collection that feeds into your massochhistic wet dream of the gubmint coming to git you, and you fighting off the entire US military and being a hero in your own mind.
.
But yes, plainly put, our country doesn't make this a priority.  Yawn.  Done.  Over.

My gun collection is not a threat to anyone that does not enter my home without permission. You can sit there and judge me all you wish but ignorant opinion of me or other gun owners means nothing. It has been said to not accept criticism from people that you would not take advice from. You fit that description to a T. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 27, 2022, 08:36:58 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 26, 2022, 10:48:54 PM

Texas Department of Public Safety official said responding officers were cautious as they entered Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas because “they could’ve been shot.”

Nineteen children and two teachers were murdered after authorities say an 18-year-old male entered with a rifle 12 minutes after he crashed a car near campus.

The New York Times reported the shooter was inside the school for about an hour before officers finally breached the classroom he was in and shot and killed him.

Reporters demanded answers during a contentious press conference Thursday afternoon. State law enforcement officials addressed the public a day after some parents with children in the school said they were prevented from going in by officers.

One girl inside the room reportedly bled for an hour after she was shot. She died at a hospital. It is unknown if that hour might have saved her life.

On Thursday’s The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer, the host discussed the Tuesday’s horrifying events with DPS Lt. Chris Olivarez.

Blitzer asked his guest if officers at the scene made the correct choice to wait for a tactical team before they went after the gunman.

Olivarez said officers were inside the school quickly, and they heard gunfire when they arrived. They called for reinforcements, he said. The officers in the building waited for a special tactical team to show up as they isolated the shooter to one classroom.

“Don’t current best practices, don’t they call for officers to disable a shooter as quickly as possible, regardless of how many officers are actually on site?” Blitzer asked him.

Olivarez said the officers who arrived at the school quickly might have been shot had they attempted to take out the gunman alone. He said,

The active shooter situation, you want to stop the killing, you want to preserve life, but also one thing that – of course, the American people need to understand — that officers are making entry into this building. They do not know where the gunman is. They are hearing gunshots.

They are receiving gunshots. At that point, if they proceeded any further not knowing where the suspect was at, they could’ve been shot, they could’ve been killed, and that gunman would have had an opportunity to kill other people inside that school.

I prefer to wait until the state investigation is complete before jumping to conclusions as there are differing stories about how this incident went down. To many people are in a rush to judgement here and are running with half truths and rumors. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 27, 2022, 09:13:33 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 27, 2022, 07:42:30 AM

I just read that the company who manufactured the rifles used in the Texas attack pulled out of the NRA convention this weekend.

Out of curiosity, I went to their website, Daniel Defense. Their AR's start at $2K each. Add in the 20 magazines he bought, and the 1000+ rounds of ammo.

Again, where did this money come from?

Grandma?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 27, 2022, 09:15:10 AM

Grandpa says they did not know there were guns in the house.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 27, 2022, 11:22:36 AM

The egg lobby is worldwide!!!

BEIJING, China — New, egg-citing research reports moderate egg consumption may provide a major boost to heart health. Scientists say eating up to one egg daily can increase the amount of heart-healthy metabolites in the blood, thus lowering your risk of cardiovascular disease.

As synonymous with breakfast as orange juice, eggs are chock-full of essential nutrients. Despite that, they also contain a lot of cholesterol. Scientists have debated for decades whether eggs are more beneficial or harmful to heart health. For instance, in 2018, a study featuring about 500,000 Chinese adults concluded that daily egg consumption (roughly one per day) results in lower heart disease and stroke risk.


https://www.studyfinds.org/one-egg-heart-disease/ (https://www.studyfinds.org/one-egg-heart-disease/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 27, 2022, 11:38:18 AM

I can eat 50 eggs. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 27, 2022, 11:42:42 AM

I can eat 50 oysters

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 27, 2022, 11:53:21 AM

Oysters >>> Eggs.

I don't care what time of day either.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 27, 2022, 12:20:26 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 27, 2022, 11:53:21 AM

Oysters >>> Eggs.

I don't care what time of day either.

either way youre sleeping outside if ya do

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 27, 2022, 12:32:50 PM

not a huge fan of either, but I think give me eggs over oysters. They are more versatile.

as far as seafood goes, octopus and clams are my favorite. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 27, 2022, 12:46:48 PM

^^^

Mr. Italian food speaks.  :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on May 27, 2022, 01:15:18 PM

Devilled eggs>>>>oysters>>>>eggs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 27, 2022, 01:22:15 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on May 27, 2022, 11:38:18 AM

I can eat 50 eggs.

In 1 hour? Are you Cool Hand Luke?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 27, 2022, 01:28:04 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 27, 2022, 01:22:15 PM

In 1 hour? Are you Cool Hand Luke?

what we have here is failure to communicate

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 27, 2022, 02:32:49 PM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on May 27, 2022, 01:15:18 PM

Devilled eggs>>>>oysters>>>>eggs

I do love deviled eggs. My wife actually makes really good ones.

Appetizer for the Memorial Day cookout!! Thanks!

We get some really nice oysters around here though...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 27, 2022, 02:36:45 PM

I have been late in getting lunch, and friends, y’all are not helping 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 27, 2022, 03:32:12 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 27, 2022, 01:28:04 PM

what we have here is failure to communicate

Some men you just can't reach. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 27, 2022, 03:42:58 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 27, 2022, 01:22:15 PM

In 1 hour? Are you Cool Hand Luke?

i was starting to lose faith anyone would catch it... 

one of if not THE best movie ever made. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 27, 2022, 03:44:34 PM

"... and that's a real cool hand... my boy- Cool Hand Luke." 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 27, 2022, 03:56:20 PM

times were simpler... slower... people engaged in person... people went out of their way for each other... society held each other accountable... I should have been born around 1918~1920 or so.  or maybe 1945... to live in the heyday of this nation- and no, not everything was right there were things terribly wrong, but... it was better than the pure hate today. 

my great uncle was born in the piedmont area of NC in the 1880's... he lived to 103 years old.  i grew bored with him and his stories as a kid and i truly regret that.  he KNEW former slaves and worked shoulder to shoulder with them in the mills... he grew up with their children... he was a white man from the other side of the tracks, literally, in burlington, and had connections from both sides.  when his brother, who was a few years his senior passed somewhere in his 60's, the people in attendance of his funeral were numbered in the hundreds- from rich to poor and all colors of the spectrum.... he was known far and wide as a supremely fair man, just like his brother, and was sought out when things got squirrely between races, and that wasn't really race so much as an economic divide. 

it was meddlers from outside that projected all the issues of race and came to town to fix them according to him.  he said the money split the societies- and at a party on his side of the tracks race wasn't an issue.... neither was money... people took care of each other.  they were wholly and completely disregarded by those who were wealthy, and even by those who found wealth after growing up on his side of the tracks.  it was all about social status.  

but things were simple.  slower... people engaged in person... people went out of their way to help each other... it wasn't perfect... and i miss what i saw of the tail end of that, and i sure wish i would have listened to his stories more.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 27, 2022, 04:26:56 PM

Struthers Martin one of the best character actors ever

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 27, 2022, 05:27:55 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on May 27, 2022, 03:56:20 PM

times were simpler... slower... people engaged in person... people went out of their way for each other... society held each other accountable... I should have been born around 1918~1920 or so.  or maybe 1945... to live in the heyday of this nation- and no, not everything was right there were things terribly wrong, but... it was better than the pure hate today.

It was the heyday for 1 group of people, that we're both part of.
It was not better for any other group.
The groups it was worse for were simply quiet about it. You're advocating for a time where those people knew their place.
You must know this. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 27, 2022, 05:39:24 PM

What I knew was someone like you would extrapolate that from what I said... and here you are...right on time. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 27, 2022, 06:10:04 PM

Sorry to interrupt the echo, but someone needs to.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 27, 2022, 11:53:46 PM

Just because you're offended doesn't make you right. What happened to you growing up?Was it a nail gun to the forehead,fetal alcohol syndrome or the obvious culprit deadly seman back up?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 27, 2022, 11:59:05 PM

Being offended doesn't make me right.  Being right makes me right.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 28, 2022, 12:32:47 AM

You have a particular faculty of realizing hallucinations

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 28, 2022, 07:54:34 AM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on May 27, 2022, 03:56:20 PM

times were simpler... slower... people engaged in person... people went out of their way for each other... society held each other accountable... I should have been born around 1918~1920 or so.  or maybe 1945... to live in the heyday of this nation- and no, not everything was right there were things terribly wrong, but... it was better than the pure hate today.

my great uncle was born in the piedmont area of NC in the 1880's... he lived to 103 years old.  i grew bored with him and his stories as a kid and i truly regret that.  he KNEW former slaves and worked shoulder to shoulder with them in the mills... he grew up with their children... he was a white man from the other side of the tracks, literally, in burlington, and had connections from both sides.  when his brother, who was a few years his senior passed somewhere in his 60's, the people in attendance of his funeral were numbered in the hundreds- from rich to poor and all colors of the spectrum.... he was known far and wide as a supremely fair man, just like his brother, and was sought out when things got squirrely between races, and that wasn't really race so much as an economic divide.

it was meddlers from outside that projected all the issues of race and came to town to fix them according to him.  he said the money split the societies- and at a party on his side of the tracks race wasn't an issue.... neither was money... people took care of each other.  they were wholly and completely disregarded by those who were wealthy, and even by those who found wealth after growing up on his side of the tracks.  it was all about social status. 

but things were simple.  slower... people engaged in person... people went out of their way to help each other... it wasn't perfect... and i miss what i saw of the tail end of that, and i sure wish i would have listened to his stories more. 

“Nostalgia is denial. Denial of the painful present. The name for this denial is Golden Age thinking — the erroneous notion that a different time period is better than the one ones living in — it's a flaw in the romantic imagination of those people who find it difficult to cope with the present.”

Midnight in Paris. Great movie.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 28, 2022, 09:25:54 AM

30 years ago things were more simple. We had no twitter. We had no book face. No next door. Email was just becoming a thing. 

If you wanted to talk to someone, you picked up the phone attached to your wall. Maybe it was even cordless.

Ya know what?

Make it a point to call a friend or family member every evening, if able. I know it's weird now, but for me it's really nice. 

Maybe I'm weird.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 28, 2022, 09:27:42 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 28, 2022, 07:54:34 AM

“Nostalgia is denial. Denial of the painful present. The name for this denial is Golden Age thinking — the erroneous notion that a different time period is better than the one ones living in — it's a flaw in the romantic imagination of those people who find it difficult to cope with the present.”

Midnight in Paris. Great movie.

He really didnt say it was better but simpler 

and it was

when I was a kid we didnt have all the media stimulus that we do now

your satisfaction of life was based on maybe 4 or 5 things

we were not distracted they way many kids are today

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 28, 2022, 11:46:52 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 28, 2022, 07:54:34 AM

“Nostalgia is denial. Denial of the painful present. The name for this denial is Golden Age thinking — the erroneous notion that a different time period is better than the one ones living in 

You would know that being a Wolverine fan and all 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 28, 2022, 02:20:37 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 28, 2022, 09:25:54 AM

30 years ago things were more simple. 

You can say that every 30 years.
Let's go back to living in caves and hunting and gathering!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 28, 2022, 03:32:23 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 28, 2022, 02:20:37 PM

You can say that every 30 years.
Let's go back to living in caves and hunting and gathering!

You interviewing for the LSU job?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 29, 2022, 03:37:21 AM

Airport security is super nice 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 29, 2022, 03:44:43 AM

Everyone speaks excellent English 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 29, 2022, 04:45:57 AM

Received text they are boarding for noon flight.     Lies

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 29, 2022, 04:46:23 AM

How is everyone?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 29, 2022, 07:10:26 AM

Good.

You home?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 29, 2022, 07:17:52 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 28, 2022, 02:20:37 PM

You can say that every 30 years.
Let's go back to living in caves and hunting and gathering!

Not really.

The 60's were kinda shitty. Nuke crisis, great president killed, cold war, Vietnam, dumbasses protesting everything.

The 30's had a bit of a financial problem that gave us a terrible new deal.

I can keep going.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 29, 2022, 07:43:16 AM

Great day on the water yesterday. Went to some places we've not been to, due to unfamiliar waters. But one of my friends was with and he is familiar, so now I am also familiar.

These waters can get a little dicey down here. You absolutely must follow the markers or you would be screwed, big time.

(https://i.imgur.com/9bAdX7S.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 29, 2022, 07:45:45 AM

The chartplotter on my boat looks like this when underway:

(https://i.imgur.com/OSfr2cj.png)

Must keep an eye on that, but also on the markers. Going by the numbers is huge. Sand bars are everywhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 29, 2022, 07:53:26 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 29, 2022, 07:43:16 AM

Great day on the water yesterday. Went to some places we've not been to, due to unfamiliar waters. But one of my friends was with and he is familiar, so now I am also familiar.

These waters can get a little dicey down here. You absolutely must follow the markers or you would be screwed, big time.

(https://i.imgur.com/9bAdX7S.png)

Great fishing there.
over here- in and around the inlets/ the tow boats make a great living.  Probably even better over there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 29, 2022, 08:01:13 AM

I heard 6 calls for Tow Boat US yesterday, so yeah, for sure. There were probably more I didn't hear while exploring the island and having lunch.

And the tide was super high yesterday too. Never seen it so high, to be honest.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 29, 2022, 08:16:43 AM

follow the markers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 29, 2022, 04:52:24 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 29, 2022, 07:10:26 AM

Good.

You home?

No in Toronto maybe the worst airport in existence other than CDG

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 29, 2022, 06:27:30 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 29, 2022, 08:01:13 AM

I heard 6 calls for Tow Boat US yesterday, so yeah, for sure. There were probably more I didn't hear while exploring the island and having lunch.

And the tide was super high yesterday too. Never seen it so high, to be honest.

King tides they're called.  We're having them here too.  King tide in a full moons high tide puts docks under water.  

Sand bars are a big threat here.  You gotta know... and not all markers can be trusted.  The sand shifts so quickly, especially on a strong tide.  Bogue inlet, Beaufort inlet, browns inlet.... theyre all tricky,  and then there are the bad ones.  On the sound where I live there are square miles of open water, and it's never more than a couple feet deep making it an issue for out of town clowns that can't read a chart.  

Sea tow does very well around here.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on May 29, 2022, 10:30:53 PM

That right there is why I almost never head out on certain waters in Ontario without a guide.  Rocks can end your day really quickly.      Stay safe dudes.

We were boating today (Indiana) and hazards today were birds.  So many goslings and ducklings.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 29, 2022, 10:52:38 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 29, 2022, 07:17:52 AM

Not really.

The 60's were kinda shitty. Nuke crisis, great president killed, cold war, Vietnam, dumbasses protesting everything.

The 30's had a bit of a financial problem that gave us a terrible new deal.

I can keep going.

Your 60s list are just stressors that didn't affect a person's day-to-day life.  A person in 1965 was MUCH better off than in 1935 (with or without the Great Depression).
Citing something called "The Great Depression" is a great use of "yeah, but" and choosing a singular exception to an otherwise mundane claim.  People in 30  years will be much better off than we are now.  This isn't really something up for debate, but here we are....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2022, 05:43:31 AM

My Dad told me he never noticed the Great Depression, he was born in 1917.  It was all the same to him, depressed.

He was born in a house with no electricity, life then was not that much different from life in 1600.

We visited a number of museums on our trip and were reminded of the Plague, cholera outbreaks, war, naval bombardments (the British bombarded Copenhagen seriously in 1807), more war, (the Germans attacked in 1867 and took a third of their land), more war, the Swedes attacked I forget when and took their northern lands, life expectancy was not good.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 30, 2022, 05:53:34 AM

Any time something bad happens, people tend to shit on Steven Pinker's statement that "now" is always the best time to ever be alive, that our world is getting better over time, etc.
You'll hear this idea echoed by older black people - no matter how attacked or victimized they feel today, it's still much better than it was 30 years ago or 50 years ago or whatever time span you want.
.
No, it's not a smooth line, but it's just like a stock price trending up over human history - lots of tiny ups and downs, all the while trending up.  That's all the idea is - our lives, as a whole, on the average, trend up as time goes by.  
.
Another seemingly innocuous (to me) idea that somehow gets pushback here on this board.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 30, 2022, 05:59:53 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 29, 2022, 03:37:21 AM

Airport security is super nice

Unlike check in/departures evidently

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2022, 06:09:00 AM

The Copenhagen airport was excellent both ways, the Toronto airport was truly awful.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2022, 06:11:00 AM

Below is a MiniRuger 14.  I've mentioned before it can fire the same ammunition as an AR-15, at the same rate and velocity, with the same large capacity magazines.  It doesn't look as deadly as an "AR15", but in reality it is.  

(https://i.imgur.com/x96NNob.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 30, 2022, 08:03:19 AM

There is a lot of ignorance about guns out there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 30, 2022, 08:05:05 AM

about every damn thing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 30, 2022, 08:05:43 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 29, 2022, 10:52:38 PM

Your 60s list are just stressors that didn't affect a person's day-to-day life.  A person in 1965 was MUCH better off than in 1935 (with or without the Great Depression).
Citing something called "The Great Depression" is a great use of "yeah, but" and choosing a singular exception to an otherwise mundane claim.  People in 30  years will be much better off than we are now.  This isn't really something up for debate, but here we are....

This is post 100 percent bullshit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2022, 08:08:40 AM

There are a lot of smart posters here, did anyone post some new gun control legislation that would have prevented that recent school shooting?  

We could raise the age for rifles to 21 from 18.

The kid bought it legally with full BG checks (such as they are).  I have a proposal that would please neither side but has something for both.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 30, 2022, 08:13:49 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 30, 2022, 08:08:40 AM

I have a proposal that would please neither side but has something for both.

you could be a politician

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 30, 2022, 08:14:45 AM

(https://i0.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2022/05/Screen-Shot-2022-05-21-at-8.41.10-PM.png?resize=768%2C788&ssl=1)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2022, 08:18:50 AM

I was not a good politician at work, wouldn't be one otherwise either.

I believe both political parties thrive on dissension and controversy instead of compromise and common sense.  They benefit when "we" are angry and aroused.

So, they, and the media, keep us that way.  Or keep us revolted and tuned out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 30, 2022, 08:20:39 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 30, 2022, 08:08:40 AM

There are a lot of smart posters here, did anyone post some new gun control legislation that would have prevented that recent school shooting? 

We could raise the age for rifles to 21 from 18.

The kid bought it legally with full BG checks (such as they are).  I have a proposal that would please neither side but has something for both.

Bring it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2022, 08:25:44 AM

To buy or own any semiautomatic weapon with detachable magazine, one would have to be licensed, something akin to getting a car license, training in use, safety, maintenance, and LEGAL aspects, as well as evaluation of one's psyche by the trainers.  (No, they wouldn't catch everyone.)

With such a license, you could carry everywhere in the US not restricted by manned magnetometers, no "gun free zones" at all, unless so monitored.

Concealed, open carry, the whole nine yards, in a school if you wanted.

Revolvers, bolt action, pumps, etc. would be same as today.  I like stop and frisk for crime prevention, but am not sure about legality.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 30, 2022, 08:42:49 AM

I could get behind something like this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2022, 08:58:38 AM

THESE ARE ACTUAL COMPLAINTS RECEIVED BY "THOMAS COOK VACATIONS" FROM DISSATISFIED CUSTOMERS:

1. "They should not allow topless sunbathing on the beach. It was very distracting for my husband who just wanted to relax."

2. "On my holiday to Goa in India, I was disgusted to find that almost every restaurant served curry. I don't like spicy food."

3. "We went on holiday to Spain and had a problem with the taxi drivers as they were all Spanish."

4. "We booked an excursion to a water park but no-one told us we had to bring our own swimsuits and towels. We assumed it would be included in the price."

5. "The beach was too sandy. We had to clean everything when we returned to our room."

6. "We found the sand was not like the sand in the brochure. Your brochure shows the sand as white but it was more yellow."

7. "It's lazy of the local shopkeepers in Puerto Vallartato close in the afternoons. I often needed to buy things during 'siesta' time -- this should be banned."

8. "No-one told us there would be fish in the water. The children were scared."

9. "Although the brochure said that there was a fully equipped kitchen, there was no egg-slicer in the drawers."

10. "I think it should be explained in the brochure that the local convenience store does not sell proper biscuits like custard creams or ginger nuts."

11. "The roads were uneven and bumpy, so we could not read the local guide book during the bus ride to the resort. Because of this, we were unaware of many things that would have made our holiday more fun."

12. "It took us nine hours to fly home from Jamaica to England. It took the Americans only three hours to get home. This seems unfair."

13. "I compared the size of our one-bedroom suite to our friends' three-bedroom and ours was significantly smaller."

14. "The brochure stated: 'No hairdressers at the resort.' We're trainee hairdressers and we think they knew and made us wait longer for service."

15. "When we were in Spain, there were too many Spanish people there. The receptionist spoke Spanish, the food was Spanish. No one told us that there would be so many foreigners."

16. "We had to line up outside to catch the boat and there was no air-conditioning."

17. "It is your duty as a tour operator to advise us of noisy or unruly guests before we travel."

18. "I was bitten by a mosquito. The brochure did not mention mosquitoes."

19. "My fiancée and I requested twin-beds when we booked, but instead we were placed in a room with a king bed. We now hold you responsible and want to be re-reimbursed for the fact that I became pregnant. This would not have happened if you had put us in the room that we booked."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 30, 2022, 09:04:16 AM

So the UK has a lot of dumb people too.

Who knew?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 30, 2022, 09:32:40 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 30, 2022, 08:58:38 AM

19. "My fiancée and I requested twin-beds when we booked, but instead we were placed in a room with a king bed. We now hold you responsible and want to be re-reimbursed for the fact that I became pregnant. This would not have happened if you had put us in the room that we booked."

So she got knocked up by a woman? 

fiancé refers to a man who is engaged to be married, and fiancée refers to a woman.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 30, 2022, 10:49:48 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on May 28, 2022, 11:46:52 AM

You would know that being a Wolverine fan and all

ya got me there brother...:043:

I did enjoy the hell out of this years game. I'm sure we'll see another W in another 18 years. Got a feeling it won't be pretty for M vs the Bucks in 2022. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 30, 2022, 10:52:39 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 30, 2022, 08:08:40 AM

There are a lot of smart posters here, did anyone post some new gun control legislation that would have prevented that recent school shooting? 

We could raise the age for rifles to 21 from 18.

The kid bought it legally with full BG checks (such as they are).  I have a proposal that would please neither side but has something for both.

I think it should be raised to 21. 

Can't buy cigarettes or beer until you're 21. Why can you buy a gun? 

I also feel like voting age and military enlistment age should be 21 as well. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 30, 2022, 10:54:06 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 30, 2022, 08:18:50 AM

I was not a good politician at work, wouldn't be one otherwise either.

I believe both political parties thrive on dissension and controversy instead of compromise and common sense.  They benefit when "we" are angry and aroused.

So, they, and the media, keep us that way.  Or keep us revolted and tuned out.

100% fact. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2022, 10:54:41 AM

Of the "major rivalries", I think Alabama-Tennessee has been the most one sided.

90	October 20, 2007	Tuscaloosa, AL	Alabama	41	# (Number)20 Tennessee	17
91	October 25, 2008	Knoxville, TN	# (Number)2 Alabama	29	Tennessee	9
92	October 24, 2009	Tuscaloosa, AL	# (Number)1 Alabama	12	Tennessee	10
93	October 23, 2010	Knoxville, TN	# (Number)8 Alabama	41	Tennessee	10
94	October 22, 2011	Tuscaloosa, AL	# (Number)2 Alabama	37	Tennessee	6
95	October 20, 2012	Knoxville, TN	# (Number)1 Alabama	44	Tennessee	13
96	October 26, 2013	Tuscaloosa, AL	# (Number)1 Alabama	45	Tennessee	10
97	October 25, 2014	Knoxville, TN	# (Number)4 Alabama	34	Tennessee	20
98	October 24, 2015	Tuscaloosa, AL	# (Number)8 Alabama	19	Tennessee	14
99	October 15, 2016	Knoxville, TN	# (Number)1 Alabama	49	# (Number)9 Tennessee	10
100	October 21, 2017	Tuscaloosa, AL	# (Number)1 Alabama	45	Tennessee	7
101	October 20, 2018	Knoxville, TN	# (Number)1 Alabama	58	Tennessee	21
102	October 19, 2019	Tuscaloosa, AL	# (Number)1 Alabama	35	Tennessee	13
103	October 24, 2020	Knoxville, TN	# (Number)2 Alabama	48	Tennessee	17
104	October 23, 2021	Tuscaloosa, AL	# (Number)4 Alabama	52	Tennessee	24

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 30, 2022, 10:58:04 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 30, 2022, 09:04:16 AM

So the UK has a lot of dumb people too.

Who knew?

they might be the dumbest country in the world outside of 'Merica. We are an off-shoot of theirs, cousins if you will.....so makes sense.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2022, 11:03:08 AM

I imagine western countries are very comparable in overall intelligence.  I'd bet others are comparable is one adjusts for reading ability due to educational differences.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 30, 2022, 11:38:14 AM

Alabama vs Tennessee is considered a rivalry?

Never knew that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2022, 11:42:42 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 30, 2022, 11:38:14 AM

Alabama vs Tennessee is considered a rivalry?

Never knew that

Third Saturday in October, and yes, it at least once was a pretty major rivalry, probably top ten.

Today it's more of an automatic win for the Tide.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 30, 2022, 12:23:47 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 30, 2022, 09:04:16 AM

So the UK has a lot of dumb people too.

Who knew?

They fell for Brexit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 30, 2022, 12:34:23 PM

Then before that, they fell for the EU. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 30, 2022, 01:14:20 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on May 30, 2022, 12:23:47 PM

They fell for Brexit.

probably a good thing....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 30, 2022, 01:15:25 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 30, 2022, 12:34:23 PM

Then before that, they fell for the EU.

yup. this unelected one world bureaucracy which the elite crave is nothing but a scam which deprives ordinary people of their rights, freedoms, and opportunities- and nation states of their sovereignty and is nothing a bunch of elitist bullsh*t. people should resist and fight back against it at all costs if they want to live in a better world.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 30, 2022, 01:56:26 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 30, 2022, 08:18:50 AM

I believe both political parties thrive on dissension and controversy instead of compromise and common sense.  They benefit when "we" are angry and aroused.

IMHO the Politicians and Corporations wanted either your vote or business.And could actually get shamed and maybe prosecuted for lying/stealing/manipulating depending on the legislation or transaction. Now they cleary DGAF as long as they either cover or pay off one another as we've been squeezed out.When has either been prosecuted for immoral,unlawful behavior? For instance the oil men manipulating the market.Democrats opening the border w/o the wellfare of the citizens and the economy considered selling their souls for votes as the so called head of Homeland Security ignored both. He should be shot in ass with rock salt .The Republicans passing all sorts of laws/legislation for the big boys as they get a reach around with fistful of dollars. The Confederacy had the right idea "F" the Federal Gov't only 160 yrs to early and for the wrong reason. The Gov't/Supreme court is fiddling while Rome burns

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2022, 04:08:02 PM

Buzzards gotta eat! same as worms!!!! - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I6TrGedUn8)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2022, 04:11:08 PM

I've posted before some compromise positions "they" could adopt, but don't want to.  Set the minimum wage at its all time high point adjusted for inflation and add a COLA, the issue is over.  But it wouldn't satisfy everyone of course.

Let folks here illegally become "legal" with a special kind of green card if they have followed the law and repay any missing taxes, but they can never become citizens.  If they are convicted of a felony, they are ejected.

Review our global defense commitments and set the defense budget aligned with whatever is left.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 30, 2022, 04:29:55 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 30, 2022, 04:11:08 PM

I've posted before some compromise positions "they" could adopt, but don't want to.  Set the minimum wage at its all time high point adjusted for inflation and add a COLA, the issue is over.  But it wouldn't satisfy everyone of course.

Let folks here illegally become "legal" with a special kind of green card if they have followed the law and repay any missing taxes, but they can never become citizens.  If they are convicted of a felony, they are ejected.

Review our global defense commitments and set the defense budget aligned with whatever is left.

run. I'd vote for you if you were endorsing all this. Lol. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 30, 2022, 04:41:07 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 30, 2022, 04:11:08 PM

I've posted before some compromise positions "they" could adopt, but don't want to.  Set the minimum wage at its all time high point adjusted for inflation and add a COLA, the issue is over.  But it wouldn't satisfy everyone of course.

Why do you hate small business???!?!!!!?!???:96:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 30, 2022, 04:45:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 30, 2022, 10:54:41 AM

Of the "major rivalries", I think Alabama-Tennessee has been the most one sided.

90	October 20, 2007	Tuscaloosa, AL	Alabama	41	# (Number)20 Tennessee	17
91	October 25, 2008	Knoxville, TN	# (Number)2 Alabama	29	Tennessee	9
92	October 24, 2009	Tuscaloosa, AL	# (Number)1 Alabama	12	Tennessee	10
93	October 23, 2010	Knoxville, TN	# (Number)8 Alabama	41	Tennessee	10
94	October 22, 2011	Tuscaloosa, AL	# (Number)2 Alabama	37	Tennessee	6
95	October 20, 2012	Knoxville, TN	# (Number)1 Alabama	44	Tennessee	13
96	October 26, 2013	Tuscaloosa, AL	# (Number)1 Alabama	45	Tennessee	10
97	October 25, 2014	Knoxville, TN	# (Number)4 Alabama	34	Tennessee	20
98	October 24, 2015	Tuscaloosa, AL	# (Number)8 Alabama	19	Tennessee	14
99	October 15, 2016	Knoxville, TN	# (Number)1 Alabama	49	# (Number)9 Tennessee	10
100	October 21, 2017	Tuscaloosa, AL	# (Number)1 Alabama	45	Tennessee	7
101	October 20, 2018	Knoxville, TN	# (Number)1 Alabama	58	Tennessee	21
102	October 19, 2019	Tuscaloosa, AL	# (Number)1 Alabama	35	Tennessee	13
103	October 24, 2020	Knoxville, TN	# (Number)2 Alabama	48	Tennessee	17
104	October 23, 2021	Tuscaloosa, AL	# (Number)4 Alabama	52	Tennessee	24

If you go back 1 further season, Tennessee has the same record vs Florida as it has against Alabama (1-15). 
And technically, if you go back the season before that, UT's record is worse vs the Gators, as Bama forfeited their 6-3 win over the Vols due to cheating. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 30, 2022, 05:51:38 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 30, 2022, 04:45:58 PM

If you go back 1 further season, Tennessee has the same record vs Florida as it has against Alabama (1-15). 
And technically, if you go back the season before that, UT's record is worse vs the Gators, as Bama forfeited their 6-3 win over the Vols due to cheating.

Tennessee has fallen way off the map....damn

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 30, 2022, 06:40:50 PM

You know it's bad when you are even worse than the Gators.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 30, 2022, 07:37:26 PM

Yeah.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZKdANVY2Kw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZKdANVY2Kw)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPFGowA_njQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPFGowA_njQ)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX5b3Gmi9nc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX5b3Gmi9nc)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 30, 2022, 07:41:45 PM

scoreboard works out so many things

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 30, 2022, 08:03:53 PM

A couple of good seasons mixed in along the way, largely at OSU's expense. The Vols also beat OSU in some bowl game at some point, shortly before the slide. Texas beat OSU a few times too, but they are rather flaccid these days as well. All three have been hilariously bad for the past several seasons.

I think that the Gators lost to an FCS team last year, for example. Or damn near. And (probably) the Wolverines in the not too distant past, which is almost as bad, or possibly much worse than losing to an FCS team.


Oh wait...
:breakcomp:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 30, 2022, 10:35:19 PM

Can't believe this shit honestly everyone one of these A-HOLES should lose their seats and be fined if not shot listen to this mechanic what the !*@&^#%$ politicians are doing to Farmers

https://youtu.be/keHwvN9QkPQ?t=408

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2022, 02:05:34 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on May 30, 2022, 08:03:53 PM

A couple of good seasons mixed in along the way, largely at OSU's expense. The Vols also beat OSU in some bowl game at some point, shortly before the slide. Texas beat OSU a few times too, but they are rather flaccid these days as well. All three have been hilariously bad for the past several seasons.

I think that the Gators lost to an FCS team last year, for example. Or damn near. And (probably) the Wolverines in the not too distant past, which is almost as bad, or possibly much worse than losing to an FCS team.


Oh wait...
:breakcomp:

But stll...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUNqeon0tDo

 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUNqeon0tDo)That's BB in the video, at 1:35....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2022, 07:19:34 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on May 30, 2022, 12:23:47 PM

They fell for Brexit.

My British friends love it. They did not love being bossed around by some cream puff in Brussels, that's for sure. That said...


Can we have Flexit, please?

Pretty please?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 31, 2022, 07:47:08 AM

Has anyone read anything decent on the impact of Brexit anywhere?  They had the pound before and after, currency is a major thing.  I guess the rest was trade and tariff stuff, and immigration rights?  Has the impact on GB&NI been severe, or over stated and mildish?

I know the pound has been pounded in the exchange markets.

The dollar has been fairly strong though, and I'm not sure that augers particularly well for our economy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2022, 08:38:50 AM

I like this, a lot:

Praxis – A College Alternative That Leads To A Full-Time Job (discoverpraxis.com) (https://discoverpraxis.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 31, 2022, 08:54:11 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 30, 2022, 08:25:44 AM

To buy or own any semiautomatic weapon with detachable magazine, one would have to be licensed, something akin to getting a car license, training in use, safety, maintenance, and LEGAL aspects, as well as evaluation of one's psyche by the trainers.  (No, they wouldn't catch everyone.)

With such a license, you could carry everywhere in the US not restricted by manned magnetometers, no "gun free zones" at all, unless so monitored.

Concealed, open carry, the whole nine yards, in a school if you wanted.

Revolvers, bolt action, pumps, etc. would be same as today.  I like stop and frisk for crime prevention, but am not sure about legality.

Your proposal regarding Semi Auto weapons would affect more than half of the weapons already legally owned and would be in direct violation of the 2nd Amendment. Won't happen. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 31, 2022, 08:58:26 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 30, 2022, 10:52:39 AM

I think it should be raised to 21.

Can't buy cigarettes or beer until you're 21. Why can you buy a gun?

I also feel like voting age and military enlistment age should be 21 as well.

Then we should also change the minimum age for military service to 21 also. If we cannot trust an 18-20 year old to buy a or own a gun, how can we trust them with driving tanks, operating machine guns or throwing hand grenades? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 31, 2022, 09:05:34 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 31, 2022, 08:58:26 AM

Then we should also change the minimum age for military service to 21 also. If we cannot trust an 18-20 year old to buy a or own a gun, how can we trust them with driving tanks, operating machine guns or throwing hand grenades?

Most of them do reasonably well at it with decent training and leadership.  By 21, folks have largely "moved on" if they never enlisted.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 31, 2022, 09:11:04 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 31, 2022, 09:05:34 AM

Most of them do reasonably well at it with decent training and leadership.  By 21, folks have largely "moved on" if they never enlisted.

But that is not the point. The point is that some people want to claim that a person is an adult at the age of 18 yet deny them basic rights and privilages aforded to adults. We can't have it both ways.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2022, 09:13:59 AM

Juveniles need decent training and leadership

obviously some aren't getting that from 18-21

in the military they have it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2022, 10:07:20 AM

The major problem "nobody" likes to talk about is that none of these proposals will keep guns out of the hands of gangs, etc. They are gonna get them no matter what, just like they do today. 

Look at the gun laws in Chicago. 

Need I say more?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 31, 2022, 10:09:29 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 31, 2022, 08:58:26 AM

Then we should also change the minimum age for military service to 21 also. If we cannot trust an 18-20 year old to buy a or own a gun, how can we trust them with driving tanks, operating machine guns or throwing hand grenades?

Yeah, that's what I said....it should be changed to 21. All of it.

An 18 year old is still an immature snot nosed teenage punk who cannot possibly think rationally as the prefrontal cortex is not yet developed- it's still in "teenager mode". The male human body continues to develop until 20-22 and the prefrontal cortex does not fully develop until around age 25.

Snot nosed 18 year old kids should NOT be able to buy alcohol, marijuana or cigarettes, vote, own firearms, or enlist in the military. If you want to say they can enlist in the military at 18 and start getting training that's fine- but they should NOT be sent into combat or conflict zones until they are 21.

18 year olds are not adults. I think age 18 is when drivers licenses should be allowed- and that's basically it. Start them on the drivers permit at 16, let them get the full drivers license at 18- and yeah that's about it in terms of all the legal rights or privileges an 18 year older should have. An 18 year old is not an adult.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 31, 2022, 10:11:32 AM

I have no issue with the general concept of various rights being accorded at different ages.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 31, 2022, 10:15:08 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 31, 2022, 09:11:04 AM

But that is not the point. The point is that some people want to claim that a person is an adult at the age of 18 yet deny them basic rights and privilages aforded to adults. We can't have it both ways.

An 18 year old is not an adult, imo. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2022, 10:15:46 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 31, 2022, 10:09:29 AM

Yeah, that's what I said....it should be changed to 21. All of it.

An 18 year old is still an immature snot nosed teenage punk who cannot possibly think rationally as the prefrontal cortex is not yet developed- it's still in "teenager mode". The male human body continues to develop until 20-22 and the prefrontal cortex does not fully develop until around age 25.

Snot nosed 18 year old kids should NOT be able to buy alcohol, marijuana or cigarettes, vote, own firearms, or enlist in the military. If you want to say they can enlist in the military at 18 and start getting training that's fine- but they should NOT be sent into combat or conflict zones until they are 21.

18 year olds are not adults. I think age 18 is when drivers licenses should be allowed- and that's basically it. Start them on the drivers permit at 16, let them get the full drivers license at 18- and yeah that's about it in terms of all the legal rights or privileges an 18 year older should have. An 18 year old is not an adult.

I was shocked to see how basic training at Camp Pendleton changed our son. Turned him into a man in 3 months.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 31, 2022, 10:18:24 AM

Something not discussed... painfully not discussed... is the role of mind altering pharmaceutical industry pushed drugs in these cases. 

I've read where all but one "mass" shooting was done by a shooter who either was or had been on illegal or mind altering drugs.  That was some time ago, and not recently.  

I wonder of its still a major similarity.  I bet it is.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 31, 2022, 10:19:52 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2022, 10:15:46 AM

I was shocked to see how basic training at Camp Pendleton changed our son. Turned him into a man in 3 months.

Yeah, me too.  My son was pretty decent going in, but clearly different coming out, much more focused, rational, and motivated to DO something.  He and I woke pretty early in our motel room the day after graduation and chatted for a while and he said "Dad, I have to DO something."  He was unused to having any idle time, so we walked.  A bit.  Quite a bit.

I think "it" does a world of good for most 18 year olds, though the initial shock is pretty significant for them.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 31, 2022, 10:29:39 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 31, 2022, 09:11:04 AM

But that is not the point. The point is that some people want to claim that a person is an adult at the age of 18 yet deny them basic rights and privilages aforded to adults. We can't have it both ways.

I disagree

You can have it both ways

The law is not always consistent with all elements

If the will of the people want a gun owner to be 21 but will allow other things at 18 then so be it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 31, 2022, 10:35:04 AM

If you already agree driving should be conferred to folks under 21, then the camel's nose is under the tent.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2022, 10:37:30 AM

So, if you are 18 and have gone through basic training, you are considered an adult. 

You will be able to serve, vote, buy booze, buy guns.

If you have not had basic training, it's 21 for all of that privilege, minus the serving, of course.

18 for driving, except for farm vehicles.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 31, 2022, 10:48:27 AM

Anyone can fly a plane or helicopter as long as there's a licensed pilot in the cockpit to take control if need be. However, you must be 16 years old before you're able to take a solo flight and 17 years old before you can earn a private pilot's license.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2022, 10:50:56 AM

Teenage Student Pilot Killed in Wisconsin Training Flight - Brightgram (https://brightgram.com/milwaukee-wi/354659/teenage-student-pilot-killed-in-wisconsin-training-flight/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 31, 2022, 10:55:25 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2022, 10:50:56 AM

Teenage Student Pilot Killed in Wisconsin Training Flight - Brightgram (https://brightgram.com/milwaukee-wi/354659/teenage-student-pilot-killed-in-wisconsin-training-flight/)

Sounds like a probable stall incident on attempting a landing.  He was 18.

You can solo with as little as ten hours of dual training.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 31, 2022, 10:59:31 AM

Basic training ain't some magic bullet.  Sure, they're more mature as they've been through something and have learned expectations and responsibility and they've damn sure learned work...

But they're also programmed in a certain code. 

I've never drank harder, worked harder, lived harder, and loved every second of it as I did in the four years following bootcamp.  First term Marines are known for good reason to be the glorious bastards they are. 

It's easy to forget they are programmed.  I turn 50 soon, and to this day a certain command issued in a certain way gets a predictable response from me.  Not near as instant to react to it, but just as instant to recognize it. 

It's about control.  Within the ranks that control is crucial to mission accomplishment, and mission accomplishment is the absolute priority of any Marine no matter the rank.  So is responding and adhering to recognized authority. 

It isn't until much later in life a person grasps what they've done at the behest of authority and by authority with no skin in the game and often for purposes that were less than respectable..... this is a recent issue, though, and goes back to "last 50 years" sentiment.  I dont think it was a thing prior to Korean War. 

A matter of fact, any DI will tell you third phase recruits are uncontrollable and dangerous except for the fact they THINK they're operating under strict guidance.  Sorta like an elephant tied to a post with twine.  This is the condition wanted in combat situations- and can be achieved quickly with the right motivators and because of programming. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on May 31, 2022, 11:19:05 AM

One sliver might be eliminating first person shooter video games on all platforms such as Call of Duty, Halo, Grand Theft Auto and countless others..  And roll back music, TV, movie, and video language and violence standards to those of say 1960.  Maybe wave a magic wand and repair the US family. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2022, 12:08:28 PM

I like the idea of repairing the family

not sure about the other stuff

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 31, 2022, 01:04:30 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on May 31, 2022, 11:19:05 AM

One sliver might be eliminating first person shooter video games on all platforms such as Call of Duty, Halo, Grand Theft Auto and countless others..  And roll back music, TV, movie, and video language and violence standards to those of say 1960.  Maybe wave a magic wand and repair the US family.

you're scapegoating entertainment and assigning blame where it not belong. parents need to TAKE RESPONSIBILITY and be better parents.

there's a problem in the home. there is a problem with parenting. and that has absolutely nothing to do with tv, movies, video games, or language.

I believe a lot of the problems we have today as a society are the fault of capitalism- or rather crony capitalism I should say- this corrupt bastardized version of the system in which we've seen economic out-pout and productivity skyrocket yet working people and the middle class have been left behind and have been systemically eroded- while the top fraction of a percent gain more and more wealth. This has lead to BOTH parents having to have to work just to make ends meet. When both parents work- children tend to get- you know- neglected. Back in the day of which you speak when we actually had a functioning labor movement and there were strict governmental controls on big corporations and the system was designed for high employment and high livable wage- a man could afford to be the bread winner and only one with a job- and the woman could stay with her children in the home- where she belongs.

You want to blame something- blame this bastardized crony capitalist fascist state in which we live and blame the feminist movement as well a little bit. Kids need their mothers in the home tending to them. And they need their father out making ends meet. A lot of the problems we have also have to do with dead beat dads. How many inner cities or redneck rural areas are riddled with guys who have half a dozen or more kids with multiple women and they don't take care of any of them?  There are a lot of shitty people out there that probably should never be parents in the first place. Unfortunately there isn't anything anyone can do about that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 31, 2022, 01:34:11 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 31, 2022, 01:04:30 PM

you're scapegoating entertainment and assigning blame where it not belong. parents need to TAKE RESPONSIBILITY and be better parents.

there's a problem in the home. there is a problem with parenting. and that has absolutely nothing to do with tv, movies, video games, or language.

I believe a lot of the problems we have today as a society are the fault of capitalism- or rather crony capitalism I should say- this corrupt bastardized version of the system in which we've seen economic out-pout and productivity skyrocket yet working people and the middle class have been left behind and have been systemically eroded- while the top fraction of a percent gain more and more wealth. This has lead to BOTH parents having to have to work just to make ends meet. 

You get a Yuengling Mdot this hammers home the real problem.But shit TV viewing also can be problematic as you say with both parents working.Two childhood friends of mine got married raised 3 daughters all college grads.They never had cable until all 3 graduated HS.The only times maybe those kids heard profanities is when the BROWNS were playing. All have came out responsable adults. Anything from Hollywood/New York/Washington can make it hard on decent parenting

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 31, 2022, 01:55:33 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on May 31, 2022, 01:34:11 PM

You get a Yuengling Mdot this hammers home the real problem.But shit TV viewing also can be problematic as you say with both parents working.Two childhood friends of mine got married raised 3 daughters all college grads.They never had cable until all 3 graduated HS.The only times maybe those kids heard profanities is when the BROWNS were playing. All have came out responsable adults. Anything from Hollywood/New York/Washington can make it hard on decent parenting

The key to good parenting is to have boundaries which are as large as possible but still serve to correct unacceptable behavior

I dont agree with banning video games or cable TV

The house my kids grew up in allowed it within reason

I dont think shooter games create serial killers

My kids played every video game available and both went on to very successful careers as one is a lawyer and the other is a CPA

The key is both parents need to be there when needed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 31, 2022, 01:58:37 PM

i love how my previous point was ignored just like it is in society.... 

mind altering pharmaceuticals, prescribed by a doctor, are a factor in almost every one of these incidents.  it is the exception for it not to be.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 31, 2022, 02:00:56 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on May 31, 2022, 01:58:37 PM

i love how my previous point was ignored just like it is in society....

mind altering pharmaceuticals, prescribed by a doctor, are a factor in almost every one of these incidents.  it is the exception for it not to be. 

Was that this case for this last incident?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 31, 2022, 02:07:04 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 31, 2022, 02:00:56 PM

Was that this case for this last incident?

I dont know.   It has been in past circumstances- prominently.   
Big pharm has a big grip on corporate media and politicians.  They buy what they please.  Covid vax is an example of the control.... this was a discussion once and the argument was compelling- exceptionally compelling... and then it disappeared. 

Feeding the body drugs to alter states of personality is damn dangerous especially when that runs out.  Weird shot happens. I bet we've all seen it with people we know but maybe didn't put it together.  The number of people on some psychotic drug or another is stupifying... I wager a good percentage of people here are popping those pills amd not thinking twice about it.  And yeah- thats a fuse on a bomb. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 31, 2022, 02:15:44 PM

FYI, I am not taking any medication, I'm normally this weird.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 31, 2022, 02:22:04 PM

Domestic Mass Shooters: The Association With Unmedicated and Untreated Psychiatric Illness - PubMed (nih.gov) (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34102649/)

Is there a link between psychotropic drugs and mass shootings? | wusa9.com (https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify-in-the-past-20-years-did-the-majority-of-mass-shooters-take-psychotropic-drugs-before-committing-a-crime/65-60d0c48d-9dab-4129-9176-47d58e4a283a)

PolitiFact | What’s behind the dubious claim that psychiatric drugs fuel mass shootings? (https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/aug/16/whats-behind-dubious-claim-psychiatric-drugs-fuel-/)

As with everything, I can't be sure of these sources obviously.  I can't be sure otherwise either, it is an Internet "rumor" that there is a correlation.  I know some find Politifact and its relatives to be unreliable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on May 31, 2022, 02:39:57 PM

Circa likely 2012 perhaps, there was data released and a discussion about the correlation.  Now? Crickets. 

I love how politifact injects "dubious" into the headline.  Theyre cooking the sentiment before it can be investigated reasonably, and which is indication of the manipulation we see everywhere and constant. 

Edited to add: there was an issue with personal health records being available even after someone passes which was a sticking point with fair discussion iirc.  Much of the "data" was collected from shooters family or those close to them responding that they were on some psychotic drug or another.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 31, 2022, 02:49:45 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on May 31, 2022, 02:07:04 PM

I dont know.  It has been in past circumstances- prominently. 
Big pharm has a big grip on corporate media and politicians.  They buy what they please.  Covid vax is an example of the control.... this was a discussion once and the argument was compelling- exceptionally compelling... and then it disappeared.

Feeding the body drugs to alter states of personality is damn dangerous especially when that runs out.  Weird shot happens. I bet we've all seen it with people we know but maybe didn't put it together.  The number of people on some psychotic drug or another is stupifying... I wager a good percentage of people here are popping those pills amd not thinking twice about it.  And yeah- thats a fuse on a bomb.

We do know that as a lobby, Big Pharm spends more in one month than the NRA does in multiple years.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 31, 2022, 04:03:43 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on May 31, 2022, 01:58:37 PM

i love how my previous point was ignored just like it is in society....

mind altering pharmaceuticals, prescribed by a doctor, are a factor in almost every one of these incidents.  it is the exception for it not to be. 

I think this has a lot to do with it as well. 

We have a serious mental health problem in this country, and handing out mind-altering pharmaceutical drugs like they are skittles probably isn't the answer. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2022, 05:24:22 PM

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/joe-biden-9mm-bullet-blows-the-lung-out-of-the-body/vi-AAXUT6l?ocid=entnewsntp&category=foryou (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/joe-biden-9mm-bullet-blows-the-lung-out-of-the-body/vi-AAXUT6l?ocid=entnewsntp&category=foryou)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 31, 2022, 06:30:52 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 31, 2022, 09:11:04 AM

But that is not the point. The point is that some people want to claim that a person is an adult at the age of 18 yet deny them basic rights and privilages aforded to adults. We can't have it both ways.

I don’t have much interest in raising the age, but this equivalency strikes me as a bit of a stretch.

We deny 18 year olds beer. We also deny them tank driving and grenade throwing. The idea that before a given age, you need to operate firearms under supervision and after training seems like not all that much of a stretch.

Not saying they should, but I don’t see as much dissonance there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 31, 2022, 06:39:05 PM

Id actually like to raise the firearm age to 35 but I dont think theres much support for that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2022, 08:12:22 PM

there might be a TON of support for term limits, but not by the folks that have the power to make a change

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 31, 2022, 08:19:51 PM

I received my first rifle at 12 years old at Christmas,  a Marlin Model 60 Glenfield .22 caliber semi-auto. I learned how to operate it properly, clean it and safely stow it away. I also learned to respect it and the power that it would have to take a life. I also was taught that until I had demonstrated the maturaty to respect the rifle and all other weapons, I would not be able to use the rifle unattended. 

Making a law that so broad is never the answer. And limiting adults to what they can or cannot poses does nothing to deter criminals, intent upon evil acts, from breaking those laws. More laws are not the answer. The government doesn't enforce the ones already on the books, what makes anyone think they will any different with more laws?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 31, 2022, 09:35:36 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 31, 2022, 08:19:51 PM

I received my first rifle at 12 years old at Christmas,  a Marlin Model 60 Glenfield .22 caliber semi-auto. I learned how to operate it properly, clean it and safely stow it away. I also learned to respect it and the power that it would have to take a life. I also was taught that until I had demonstrated the maturaty to respect the rifle and all other weapons, I would not be able to use the rifle unattended.

Making a law that so broad is never the answer. And limiting adults to what they can or cannot poses does nothing to deter criminals, intent upon evil acts, from breaking those laws. More laws are not the answer. The government doesn't enforce the ones already on the books, what makes anyone think they will any different with more laws?

I got my first gun at about the same age

Mossberg 22 rifle with seven shot clip

still have it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 01, 2022, 04:59:47 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 31, 2022, 08:12:22 PM

there might be a TON of support for term limits, but not by the folks that have the power to make a change

Sure, folks pine for it all the time, but it won't happen for obvious reasons, so why view it as some solution?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 01, 2022, 06:09:30 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 01, 2022, 04:59:47 AM

Sure, folks pine for it all the time, but it won't happen for obvious reasons, so why view it as some solution?

I really hate that attitude/way of thinking. Like we the people should just accept the sh*t hand we are dealt, just because? That nothing can or will ever change? F**k. That.

The power is in the hands of the people. If we want change, we can stop electing the same motherf**ker do-nothing corrupt career politicians. Where is the will of the people for change? Labor movement and grass roots political movements have been completely neutered and knee capped. I don't know if it's because consolidation of mass media (5 or 6 multi-national conglomerates own/control 95+% of all media in US), degradation of the culture, people just being stuck and enslaved in the rat race trying to make ends meet so they don't pay attention, or probably some combo of it all.

WE the people deserve better. And we can get better anytime we decide to stand up, unite, and fight these c*ck suckers in DC tooth and nail.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 01, 2022, 06:39:15 AM

Be my guest and have at it.  It's not going to change for obvious reasons.

I don't joust at windmills.  And I personally have no influence over such things anyway and don't kid myself that I do.

Some things in life are fixed, and this is one of them, unless you think posts on social media actually change anything.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on June 01, 2022, 07:10:09 AM

https://www.wionews.com/world/monkeypox-russia-alleges-us-labs-in-nigeria-spreading-the-disease-482819 (https://www.wionews.com/world/monkeypox-russia-alleges-us-labs-in-nigeria-spreading-the-disease-482819)

The Russian claim makes me thing they're the ones deliberately spreading monkey pox.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 01, 2022, 08:04:26 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on June 01, 2022, 07:10:09 AM

https://www.wionews.com/world/monkeypox-russia-alleges-us-labs-in-nigeria-spreading-the-disease-482819 (https://www.wionews.com/world/monkeypox-russia-alleges-us-labs-in-nigeria-spreading-the-disease-482819)

The Russian claim makes me thing they're the ones deliberately spreading monkey pox.

Jesus Christ man, get a grip. ENOUGH with the Russia Russia Russia bullsh*t. They ARE NOT lurking behind every corner causing every bad thing in the f**king world to happen nor are they the reason Hillary Clinton lost a Presidential election. GET. OVER. IT.

Russia is a 3rd rate country with a joke of an economy- that countries entire GDP is barely a couple hundred million dollars more than that the US state of Florida- it's essentially a giant gas station and nothing else- it has an outdated military with crappy old equipment- and it has an old rapidly declining population. Russia is done for. They are not even remotely capable of half the stuff morons in the US blame them for. They'd be a 3rd world nation if it wasn't for 6,000 hold-over nukes from the USSR era and a bunch of oil and gas deposits. Russia's rapidly declining birth rates suggests their population will likely half by as soon as 2100. That's basically only one person away. And their population is 144 million. A country that vast with only 70 million people is a threat to no one. They are done for. It's over. 

Just take a look at the coronavirus and the lies and attempts to cover-up that ensued and the leaked DARPA rejection of EcoHealth Alliance's grant to literally build COVID- and I would say the likely hood that US based or Chinese based actors are behind something like this is FAR greater than the likely hood that Russia is behind it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 01, 2022, 08:24:22 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on June 01, 2022, 07:10:09 AM

https://www.wionews.com/world/monkeypox-russia-alleges-us-labs-in-nigeria-spreading-the-disease-482819 (https://www.wionews.com/world/monkeypox-russia-alleges-us-labs-in-nigeria-spreading-the-disease-482819)

The Russian claim makes me thing they're the ones deliberately spreading monkey pox.

I presumed this was posted with a bit of irony and mirth behind it....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 01, 2022, 09:34:20 AM

EU bans Russian oil shipped by sea. They left a loophole for oil being imported through pipeline to get Hungary on board with the embargo. 90% of Russian oil that was imported into the EU will now no longer be imported by the end of the year.

This is disastrous for Europe and for the world at large. Poor and working class Europeans are going to be wiped out by this- and the Euro is going to go into free fall over this and if you thought inflation was going to get any better anytime soon in the US- it's not. Oil prices are the #1 driver of inflation by a country mile. Oil prices are about to sky rocket even further.

I swear to christ it's like the world is run by the dumbest people in the room.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 01, 2022, 09:37:42 AM

Supreme Court blocks Texas social media law from taking effect : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2022/05/31/1102289944/supreme-court-blocks-texas-social-media-law-from-taking-effect)

The vote was 5-to-4, with the court's three most conservative justices filing a written dissent that would have allowed the Texas law to start. In a surprise move, liberal Justice Elena Kagan joined in the dissent, but she did not explain her rationale.
The Texas law bars Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and other popular social media sites from blocking content based on viewpoint. Gov. Greg Abbott maintained that the law was a justifiable response to "a dangerous movement by social media companies to silence conservative viewpoints and ideas."
A federal district court temporarily halted state officials from enforcing the law, saying it likely violates the First Amendment. But a divided panel of the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals allowed enforcement to proceed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 01, 2022, 09:42:51 AM

These charts show Russia's invasion of Ukraine has changed global oil (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/31/these-charts-show-russias-invasion-of-ukraine-has-changed-global-oil.html)

Perhaps it means Russian oil will, and has been in fact, simply being diverted to China and India, which means less demand by them for mideastern oil.  Net effect?  Modest.

Higher shipping costs.  The EU had already mostly cut Russian oil purchases.

Russian oil exports to Northwest Europe have plunged more than 80% from their peak in Nov. 2021

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 01, 2022, 10:38:34 AM

The question: can enough oil be diverted east for them to save face?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 01, 2022, 10:47:38 AM

I don't know about face, but they appear to be generating revenue adequately this far.  Europe has already cut purchases pretty far, I don't think this "news" is going to have much material impact.  A concern for me is the comments about opening up Ukrainian shipments of grain from Odessa etc.  That is worth keeping an eye on.  If the food situation gets truly dire, that may be a tipping point.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 01, 2022, 11:11:40 AM

But of course.

Census blunder may tip 2024 to Democrats | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/3504546-census-blunder-may-tip-2024-to-democrats/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 01, 2022, 11:14:20 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 01, 2022, 09:37:42 AM

Supreme Court blocks Texas social media law from taking effect : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2022/05/31/1102289944/supreme-court-blocks-texas-social-media-law-from-taking-effect)

The vote was 5-to-4, with the court's three most conservative justices filing a written dissent that would have allowed the Texas law to start. In a surprise move, liberal Justice Elena Kagan joined in the dissent, but she did not explain her rationale.
The Texas law bars Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and other popular social media sites from blocking content based on viewpoint. Gov. Greg Abbott maintained that the law was a justifiable response to "a dangerous movement by social media companies to silence conservative viewpoints and ideas."
A federal district court temporarily halted state officials from enforcing the law, saying it likely violates the First Amendment. But a divided panel of the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals allowed enforcement to proceed.

you know the courts are all kinds of f**ked up when anti-censorship laws are getting struck down.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 01, 2022, 11:25:14 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on June 01, 2022, 10:38:34 AM

The question: can enough oil be diverted east for them to save face?

no. India does not consume nearly enough oil to make up the shortfall.

everyone seems to be missing the point. oil is a finite resource of which the worlds supply is tightly controlled by one group: OPEC- of which one country- Saudi Arabia largely dominates. it's not like every country just has a bunch of oil that they produce and export. Two countries: Saudi Arabia and Russia export about 30% of the worlds entire oil exports. There are like 200 countries in the f**king world. Throw in the US, UAE, and Iraq and you're at like 50%. That's 5 f**king countries. Exporting half the entire worlds oil. And you just cut the #2 guy out the picture. This is not good.

the US/EU are the #1 and #3 consumers of oil (China is #2) in the entire world by a wide margin (EU consumes 2.5x the oil #4- India does for example) - and both blocs are stupidly and recklessly artificially limiting the supply of oil they can purchase by pretty much completely removing the worlds 3rd largest oil producer and 2nd largest oil exporter from their purchasable supply.

Supply and demand. US/EU are already suffering though record inflation and getting HAMMERED by gas, food, electric, and heating price increases. This will only make it worse. Rapid oil price increase are BY FAR THE SINGLE LARGEST drivers of inflation. It's not even f**king close. You want inflation to go down....oil prices have to go down. This is only going to make them go up.

This does ABSOLUTELY nothing but make idiot pols "feel better" maybe....give the appearance they are "doing something!" to fight the "bad guys". When in reality, all it does is crush the regular folks of the US/EU with INSANE inflation. Russia will continue to slaughter, bomb, and destroy Ukraine- they are not being stopped by this ridiculousness- and all that will happen is Russia will get whatever they want in Ukraine anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 01, 2022, 12:16:00 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 01, 2022, 11:14:20 AM

you know the courts are all kinds of f**ked up when anti-censorship laws are getting struck down.

That law was pretty poorly constructed policy, no matter how one reads the aims. It would’ve been both bad for users and companies alike. 

Granted, it was passed more for showmanship than real policy reasons. It was pretty anti-first amendment to boot, at least as the first amendment is understood in the legal sense, rather than the colloquial sense. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 01, 2022, 12:18:58 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 01, 2022, 06:09:30 AM

I really hate that attitude/way of thinking. Like we the people should just accept the sh*t hand we are dealt, just because? That nothing can or will ever change? F**k. That.

The power is in the hands of the people. If we want change, we can stop electing the same motherf**ker do-nothing corrupt career politicians. Where is the will of the people for change? 

This only works for an informed populace.  We are not informed.  We're sprayed with 17 different takes on each issue, and we believe the one we want to believe.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 01, 2022, 12:20:42 PM

This isn't record inflation of course, even for just the US in history.

I don't think continuing to buy oil from Russia is a good idea if reasonable alternatives are available.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 01, 2022, 01:24:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 01, 2022, 12:20:42 PM

This isn't record inflation of course, even for just the US in history.

I don't think continuing to buy oil from Russia is a good idea if reasonable alternatives are available.

It does not have to be a record for folks to be pissed about it

and no we should not have to but oil from anyone

we have the ability to be self sustaining when it comes to energy

all it takes is better leadership

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 01, 2022, 01:39:05 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 01, 2022, 11:25:14 AM

Supply and demand. US/EU are already suffering though record inflation and getting HAMMERED by gas, food, electric, and heating price increases. This will only make it worse. Rapid oil price increase are BY FAR THE SINGLE LARGEST drivers of inflation. It's not even f**king close. You want inflation to go down....oil prices have to go down. This is only going to make them go up.

I was responding to this assertion.  And of course, if the US were entirely independent of global oil, we'd still be paying global prices, or very close to them.  It's not as if somehow domestically produced oil would be much cheaper than oil from Canada or Saudi Arabia.  Brent and West Texas prices pretty much coincide.  More production, from anywhere, would ease the supply/demand imbalance (as would a steep recession).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 01, 2022, 01:41:26 PM

Speaking of traveling, we're off to CA Friday for six days.  I'm not at all anxious to go, but whatever.  My wife thinks we'll get upgraded to first, but the plane is almost full it looks to me.

I'll get a look at CA gas prices, I'm sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 01, 2022, 02:25:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 01, 2022, 01:39:05 PM

I was responding to this assertion.  And of course, if the US were entirely independent of global oil, we'd still be paying global prices, or very close to them.  It's not as if somehow domestically produced oil would be much cheaper than oil from Canada or Saudi Arabia.  Brent and West Texas prices pretty much coincide.  More production, from anywhere, would ease the supply/demand imbalance (as would a steep recession).

I dont think so

Price of gasoline in Saudi Aribia right now is $2.30/gal

so someone needs to tell Saudi Arabia they need to raise their prices

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 01, 2022, 03:29:10 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 01, 2022, 01:41:26 PM

Speaking of traveling, we're off to CA Friday for six days.  I'm not at all anxious to go, but whatever.  My wife thinks we'll get upgraded to first, but the plane is almost full it looks to me.

I'll get a look at CA gas prices, I'm sure.

Drive Electric 😁

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 01, 2022, 04:04:45 PM

Saudi Arabia obviously subsidizes their gasoline pricing.  We would simply NOT be paying any less if we didn't import oil ourselves with the current supply/demand situation globally.  Now, if the US produced a lot more oil, it would influence that ratio, some.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 01, 2022, 07:34:16 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 01, 2022, 04:04:45 PM

Saudi Arabia obviously subsidizes their gasoline pricing.  We would simply NOT be paying any less if we didn't import oil ourselves with the current supply/demand situation globally.  Now, if the US produced a lot more oil, it would influence that ratio, some.

yes they can do that cause the oil production is done by a company government owned

maybe we ought to consider this especially because a lot of oil comes off government land

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 01, 2022, 08:03:47 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 01, 2022, 12:18:58 PM

This only works for an informed populace.  We are not informed.  We're sprayed with 17 different takes on each issue, and we believe the one we want to believe. 

Happy Pride month, Fro.

Any big plans? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 01, 2022, 08:23:43 PM

I'm going out to California for a few days.  Spending some time with my cancer-ridden friend while he gets radiation treatment before driving him home back to Las Vegas.
Thanks for asking. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 01, 2022, 09:30:54 PM

That Virginia Tech player was found "not guilty" of his murder charges stemming from last summer. 

Boy that was a weird case. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 01, 2022, 10:59:51 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 01, 2022, 07:34:16 PM

yes they can do that cause the oil production is done by a company government owned

maybe we ought to consider this especially because a lot of oil comes off government land

Pesky capitalism makes this sort of thing quite tricky. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 01, 2022, 11:46:15 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 01, 2022, 10:59:51 PM

Pesky capitalism makes this sort of thing quite tricky.

yep and only God knows what would happen if we put Washington DC in charge of gasoline production

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 02, 2022, 06:27:03 AM

I'm not God but I still know what would happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2022, 06:58:39 AM

Saudi obviously has "oil to spare", and a relatively few barrels donated for cheap gasoline for locals is a low price to pay for stability.  They could sell those barrels, but don't.  

The US is not in that situation and never will be.  We consume astonishing amounts of oil each day.  And most US oil production is off private land.  They have issues right now with labor and parts shortages, like everyone else.

The US should be back to 2019 levels of production in 2023 anyway.  More EVs could cut oil usage obviously, but not for a while.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 02, 2022, 07:08:38 AM

Buick is claiming that they will be all-EV by 2030.


<<crosses Buick off list, as if they were ever on said list>>

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 02, 2022, 07:27:07 AM

[color=var(--headline-font-color)]Less Than 5% of Violent Acts Are Linked to Mental Illness, Research Shows[/color]


https://www.wsj.com/articles/mass-shootings-revive-debate-over-role-of-mental-health-11654108898?st=ec22v2zwrfl6wcp&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2022, 07:27:11 AM

Cadillac is going EV as well.  GM and Ford are going EV.  I was told all cabs in Copenhagen would be EVs by 2025 and all cars by 2030, though I think this means new vehicles.  We rode in a VW EV cab that was pretty nice overall.  It's coming, I'm just not sure how fast replacement will be.  That one is very hard to calculate, and these goals are just that.

I am GUESSING by 2035 most new cars in the US will be EVs, more than 50% and probably more than 80%.  That would start to reduce demand for oil, if it happens.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2022, 07:27:22 AM

Some things just never change. (https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/t53/1/16/1f605.png)

During the Cold War, the Soviets had the habit of surreptitiously acquiring Western computer chips and using them in their own weapons systems because their own industry couldn't produce chips that are on par with Western technology and more importantly, performance. It's for this very reason that the Soviets were considered backwards and primitive simply because they couldn't match their Western counterparts in certain areas.

And now, the Ukrainians have revealed to the world that nothing has changed in the 3 decades since the collapse of the Soviet Union.

The Russians are apparently still unable to match the West, or even the Chinese, in the production of proper computer chips which are essential for the many high tech weapons in service today which are even more dependent upon computing power than 30 years ago. The only thing that had changed, was how the Russians acquired the needed Western chips for their weapons systems. They legitimately bought them before sanctions rolled in. They Russians are still entirely dependent upon the West for something as basic as the computer chips that form the heart of many of their high tech weapons. Even the Chinese have managed to become independent and produce their own chips which are on par, and even in some cases, outstripping their Western counterparts. As one example, it has to be remembered that the Chinese were the one who pioneered, and now have the lead in, 5G mobile telecommunications technology. Even some of their vehicles use Western engines and other components.

And how do we know this? The vast numbers of Russian equipment that had fallen into Ukrainian hands, such as this Pantsir S1/SA-22 Greyhound air defense system, has been taken apart and have all their secrets laid bare for all to see. And that was what they saw. A supposedly indigenously developed equipment that is chock full of, and entirely dependent upon, Western components and hardly anything Russian.

As we've said many times before, the Russians are having their technical secrets exposed to the West to see. And what is seen just makes an even bigger fool out of the Russians. They are still as backwards as their Soviet predecessors had been in the realm of electronics. (https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/td0/1/16/1f602.png)(https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/td0/1/16/1f602.png)(https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/td0/1/16/1f602.png) ~Clorox.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2022, 09:02:04 AM

Two words explain why Trump won’t run in 2024 | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/3508270-two-words-explain-why-trump-wont-run-in-2024/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 02, 2022, 09:40:07 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 02, 2022, 09:02:04 AM

Two words explain why Trump won’t run in 2024 | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/3508270-two-words-explain-why-trump-wont-run-in-2024/)

Do you really think Trump wont run in 2024

This is nothing but a hit piece

Barring health problems there is no doubt the orange guy runs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on June 02, 2022, 09:57:33 AM

I was talking with a buddy who carries some weight with the power company.  

He used my street as an example.  

There is a transformer behind my house with seven drops... now, I use two of those drops as I have separate meter on my barn... but... these transformers are designed for four, and five in a pinch.  

Along the entirety of the run, every transformer is at or above rated capacity.  He said if three of us bought EVs, the system would fail.  There are likely 50 of us on this leg.  

EV aint the solution yet.  It's gonna be a bigger problem than anything it solves.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2022, 10:02:41 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 02, 2022, 09:40:07 AM

Do you really think Trump wont run in 2024

This is nothing but a hit piece

Barring health problems there is no doubt the orange guy runs

I obviously don't know (and don't really care), I just posted this person's opinion for comment and thought etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2022, 10:07:17 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 01, 2022, 02:25:59 PM

I dont think so

Price of gasoline in Saudi Aribia right now is $2.30/gal

so someone needs to tell Saudi Arabia they need to raise their prices

someone needs to tell Texas to lower their gasoline prices

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2022, 10:07:23 AM

I think EV charging will have to be somehow regulated, e.g., charge only at night, when at home, at a charging station otherwise (which one presumes would have the capacity, though presumes is the operative term).  I read one piece that said the increment will be less than that provided by central air taking over.  I don't know if that is accurate of course, but it's a thought.  Of course, back then we burned a lot of coal.

And it's going to be a while before EVs reach the point of being a major load on the System, outside perhaps CA, and Europe.  Denmark seems to be managing "OK", I'm of course ignorant of their actual power situation beyond knowing they buy power from other countries often as not.  They had a fair number of wind turbines out in the sea.

Our building has a backup Diesel generator that powers the elevators and emergency lights etc., but not the units.  They run it every month or so when not needed I gather to keep it lubed or operative, whatever.  It makes some noise.  And it's a sizeable unit, probably 4'x10'x6' or so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2022, 10:10:39 AM

Trump will run, hopefully he's soundly defeated within the Red party

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2022, 10:12:45 AM

the most useful EV charger for home use today takes an 80amp circuit

the 110 chargers can take 30-40 hours to charge a vehicle

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 02, 2022, 10:15:35 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 02, 2022, 10:10:39 AM

Trump will run, hopefully he's soundly defeated within the Red party

we dont always get what we want

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 02, 2022, 10:17:33 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 02, 2022, 10:07:17 AM

someone needs to tell Texas to lower their gasoline prices

what the hell does that mean farmer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2022, 10:19:53 AM

the Bush boys and the Texas oil tycoons always were blamed for high gas prices and wars

can't just blame Biden & Russia this time 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 02, 2022, 11:08:34 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 02, 2022, 10:19:53 AM

the Bush boys and the Texas oil tycoons always were blamed for high gas prices and wars

can't just blame Biden & Russia this time

sure you can cause thats where the blame lies

Brandon is doing everything he can to drive up the price of gas

Russia has some blame but mostly its King Brandon

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 02, 2022, 12:01:31 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 02, 2022, 10:10:39 AM

Trump will run, hopefully he's soundly defeated within the Red party

If he runs, he immediately clears the field on the GOP side. And the only way he doesn't run is if he's dead.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 02, 2022, 12:06:58 PM

I don't think he runs. 

Brandon neither.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on June 02, 2022, 12:47:19 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 02, 2022, 11:08:34 AM

sure you can cause thats where the blame lies

Brandon is doing everything he can to drive up the price of gas

Russia has some blame but mostly its King Brandon

Mostly?  No.  Some, yes.
I am sure that you can cite the Keystone pipeline as the catalyst that started this mess, but the truth is, the US is going to be producing just about as much crude oil this year as we did in 2019.  Unless you are trying to claim that Biden is the reason for Russia invading the Ukraine (you'd be wrong, but there is at least some convoluted logic path that can get you there).

For the record, you don't just flip a switch and suddenly we start pumping out a million more barrels of oil per day.  Before the pandemic hit, we were pumping about 12.3 million barrels per day.  At the height of the pandemic (August, 2020), we dropped down to about 10 million, because the demand had fallen to the point where we didn't need to produce as much.  Since that time, we have been slowly ramping back up (ie. replacing the workers who were all layed off in 2020) and we are now back up to 11.9 million barrels per day (and it is expected to grow to be 12.8 million in 2023).  This administration is going to be pumping more oil next year than when Trump was president.  Yet the narrative is going to be from Republicans that Biden is killing the oil industry.

So if you were to look at the gas prices in the US in a bubble, the prices should only have increased 12.3/11.9=about 3%.  Yet gas prices have gone up about 75%-100%.  This is mostly on the gas companies who are exploiting the market instability to price gouge us.  The gas companies can claim that the lack of oil coming from Russia is causing a shortage, therefore they can raise the prices accordingly (simple supply and demand!).  Yet only 2% of our oil comes from Russia.  Europe gets about 20% of their oil from Russia.  So where does the other 50% to 80% in cost increase come from?  If you can point to a specific Biden administration decision that did that, feel free to show me.  I'll put 100$ down right now that 2022 is going to be a record earnings year for every oil company.


Short-Term Energy Outlook - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

 (https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/steo/report/us_oil.php)Data: How much of U.S. oil comes from Russia? (nbcnews.com) (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/data-how-much-american-oil-comes-russia-n1291369)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2022, 01:01:49 PM

Oil prices are global, they shot up because demand outstripped supply, globally.  If oil companies could really control this market, they wouldn't have bad years.  OPEC+ does have significant control over the market, not complete of course, they suffered during the COVID recession.  But the major oil companies are very small as compared with OPEC+ in terms of market control.

The price of gasoline closely tracks the price of oil over time.  Higher oil prices ...  

I think that last stimulus bill was part of the problem, it sent money to folks who already had delayed travel etc. and saved money, and now everyone wants to travel.  I've never seen airports and planes so full as today, hotels are hard to come by, and rental cars as well, everybody is making up for lost time.  Demand spiked, global oil supply has been slow to recover for a number of reasons, including labor and parts issues.

It's facile to fault one simple thing for such situations, I think, when multiple factors are involved.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 02, 2022, 01:38:29 PM

I hear everything you guys are saying but never the less the fact is as soon as Trump gets elected the price of gasoline will start to fall and will return to normal within 6 months

You can call it magic or whatever but as long as it happens I dont care why

Inflation will go down and our southern boarder will be secure

We will stop giving money to Ukraine

all will be good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2022, 01:40:50 PM

If we have a deep recession, the price of oil will indeed fall, no matter who is President.

Even a moderate recession will cause that as well.  So, that's one way to reduce demand.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 02, 2022, 01:44:33 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 02, 2022, 01:40:50 PM

If we have a deep recession, the price of oil will indeed fall, no matter who is President.

Even a moderate recession will cause that as well.  So, that's one way to reduce demand.

If we have a recession it will end as soon as Mr Orange is sworn in

You honestly should be exhausted from carrying so much water for the dems

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2022, 01:52:24 PM

I try and be a realist and consider past history and current data as much as possible without taking some partisan angle to that evaluation.  In history, oil price spikes have been followed by recessions, almost without exception since 1974, and said recession cuts demand and oil prices.  The economy then recovers, no matter who is President.

Our economy is more dependent on oil than anything else, I think, and the price goes into fertilizer and glass making and a number of things aside from transportation and the obvious.

I also believe "we" blame, and credit, Presidents for things largely out of their control.  I view the Fed as having quite a bit more influence over our economy than any President with some exceptions like war and pandemics.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 02, 2022, 01:59:14 PM

The oil problem was brought about on purpose by Brandon to push his green agenda

there is a lot of evidence of this including his self admission

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on June 02, 2022, 02:00:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 02, 2022, 01:01:49 PM

Oil prices are global, they shot up because demand outstripped supply, globally.  If oil companies could really control this market, they wouldn't have bad years.  OPEC+ does have significant control over the market, not complete of course, they suffered during the COVID recession.  But the major oil companies are very small as compared with OPEC+ in terms of market control.

The price of gasoline closely tracks the price of oil over time.  Higher oil prices ... 

I think that last stimulus bill was part of the problem, it sent money to folks who already had delayed travel etc. and saved money, and now everyone wants to travel.  I've never seen airports and planes so full as today, hotels are hard to come by, and rental cars as well, everybody is making up for lost time.  Demand spiked, global oil supply has been slow to recover for a number of reasons, including labor and parts issues.

It's facile to fault one simple thing for such situations, I think, when multiple factors are involved. 

I agree with the first two paragraphs, I guess I should have stated OPEC as opposed to "gas companies".  I don't think that demand is outstripping supply though (and OPEC themselves are "Insisting that no supply shortage exists, OPEC+ countries agreed on 31 March to stick with a modest monthly output increment for May" (I'll give you the link if you want it).  So yes, the prices are up on the crude oil barrels, but it is due to the instability of the source, not the actual amount being produced.  It's a money grab, but one with enough of a justification that people can't really call them on it.


Also, I don't think the stimulus is a major issue.  Yes, everyone was cooped up in the pandemic and is now going out and getting their vacations in, but "The [color=var(--color-signal-editorial,#326891)]World Travel & Tourism Council [/color] (https://wttc.org/)(W.T.T.C.), which represents the global travel and tourism industry, projects that travel and tourism in the United States will reach prepandemic levels in 2022, contributing nearly $2 trillion to the U.S. economy."  So yes, we are traveling "more", but not to the point where it would outpace the oil supply which is supposedly back up to where it was prepandemic.
Besides, that last stimulus check was, what?  $2800 at most for a married couple.  That wouldn't even cover 3 days at Disneyworld back in 2019.  

I think your last sentence is spot on.  There's 50 factors that are causing the headaches in the WORLD economy right now.  Probably 75% are a combination of lingering consequences of Covid-world and Russian douchebaggery.  I guess my biggest beef is with the belief that this was "mostly" Biden's fault.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on June 02, 2022, 02:01:01 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 02, 2022, 10:12:45 AM

the most useful EV charger for home use today takes an 80amp circuit

the 110 chargers can take 30-40 hours to charge a vehicle

Not sure this is correct, most home chargers require 30-50 amps IIRC.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on June 02, 2022, 02:04:00 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 02, 2022, 01:59:14 PM

The oil problem was brought about on purpose by Brandon to push his green agenda

there is a lot of evidence of this including his self admission

Ummm, if the oil production next year is going to be the highest that it has ever been in this country, then he's doing a crappy job at pushing a green agenda.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 02, 2022, 02:06:26 PM

Quote from: grillrat on June 02, 2022, 02:00:34 PM

I think your last sentence is spot on.  There's 50 factors that are causing the headaches in the WORLD economy right now.  Probably 75% are a combination of lingering consequences of Covid-world and Russian douchebaggery.  I guess my biggest beef is with the belief that this was "mostly" Biden's fault.

and when Trump takes the reins and oil price goes down you will have 50 reasons for that other then giving credit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 02, 2022, 02:09:00 PM

$7.25 in the marina now. Good thing I'm a member and get a $0.50 discount. $6.75 for me. Yay!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on June 02, 2022, 02:33:35 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 02, 2022, 02:06:26 PM

and when Trump takes the reins and oil price goes down you will have 50 reasons for that other then giving credit

If Trump were to get back into the White House and he did something that forced OPEC to lower prices, then absolutely yes I would give him credit.

...but fair warning, I'm going to want something a little more concrete as proof besides Trump proclaiming it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 02, 2022, 02:43:55 PM

Quote from: grillrat on June 02, 2022, 02:33:35 PM

If Trump were to get back into the White House and he did something that forced OPEC to lower prices, then absolutely yes I would give him credit.

...but fair warning, I'm going to want something a little more concrete as proof besides Trump proclaiming it.

so youre saying theres a chance............

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2022, 04:26:25 PM

US oil production should set new records next year, natural gas production is already there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 02, 2022, 04:31:13 PM

Quote from: grillrat on June 02, 2022, 02:33:35 PM

If Trump were to get back into the White House and he did something that forced OPEC to lower prices, then absolutely yes I would give him credit.

...but fair warning, I'm going to want something a little more concrete as proof besides Trump proclaiming it.

Trump leaned on Saudi Arabia (who controls OPEC) to cut production when he wanted and also increase production when he wanted. MbS loved Trump. MbS won't even take President Senile Shit-for-Brains phone calls. Tells you all ya need to know, really.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2022, 04:36:05 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 02, 2022, 01:59:14 PM

The oil problem was brought about on purpose by Brandon to push his green agenda

there is a lot of evidence of this including his self admission

What specifically has he done?  Delay leases or stop fracking on Federal lands?  Oil companies have leases for 3-4 years, and most oil production is on private land in the US.  Stop the pipeline?  It wouldn't be built yet anyway, and of course it relates to tar sands oil (bitumen) from Canada, and that oil is being refined anyway (shipped by rail, at some increase in cost, and pipeline).  It also would have shipped less than has been released from the SPR anyway, which hasn't made much of a dent.

Brandon's EOs were largely folderol, meaningless, meant to appease part of his base.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2022, 04:48:25 PM

Folks like me couldn't travel in 2020, and didn't much in 2021, which meant we weren't spending money on travel.  That money accumulated, in effect, and now folks are traveling, which increases demand, a lot, air lines are full, folks are driving a lot, and the economy snapped back quickly last year, we had very high GDP growth, much of which is dependent on petroleum.  The stimulus monies were just added to all that, free money, let's hit the road.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2022, 04:55:59 PM

OPEC+ announces 50 percent increase in oil output for July and August | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/3509324-opec-announces-50-percent-increase-in-oil-output-for-july-and-august/)

Misleading headline, they increased their planned increase by 50%, which is better than nothing, but still small.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2022, 04:57:55 PM

Social Security trust fund will be able to pay benefits longer than expected (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/02/social-security-trust-fund-will-be-able-to-pay-benefits-longer-than-expected.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2022, 04:59:42 PM

Quote from: grillrat on June 02, 2022, 02:04:00 PM

Ummm, if the oil production next year is going to be the highest that it has ever been in this country, then he's doing a crappy job at pushing a green agenda.

This is Biden's dilemma, it's going to look bad to the Greenies when this happens, and the rest won't be prone to giving him any credit (I won't).

Horns of a pitard.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2022, 08:53:05 PM

Quote from: Gigem on June 02, 2022, 02:01:01 PM

Not sure this is correct, most home chargers require 30-50 amps IIRC. 

pulling 50 amps will be done over an 80 amp circuit with 80 amp breaker

A charger pulling 30 amps may do for most folks
if you have a reasonable commute and only take 10-20% off the battery a 30 amp would recharge to 100% overnight, but if you take the car out over the weekend and drain 90% of it, a 30 amp could take 30 hours to recharge to 100%
if you own a 2nd gasser for long trips the 30 amp would be fine

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2022, 08:59:10 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 02, 2022, 02:09:00 PM

$7.25 in the marina now. Good thing I'm a member and get a $0.50 discount. $6.75 for me. Yay!!

I paid more than $3.99 for the first time today
$4.39
I don't like it
most signs I saw were $4.49
I don't think crude has gone up at the same rate as gasoline in the past 4-6 weeks

it's price gouging

gas stations used to work on percentages - probably still do, I don't know

but, if they were making 10% on $3/gallon, they're making a heck of a lot more on $4.50/gallon

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on June 03, 2022, 12:05:55 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 02, 2022, 04:48:25 PM

Folks like me couldn't travel in 2020, and didn't much in 2021, which meant we weren't spending money on travel.  That money accumulated, in effect, and now folks are traveling, which increases demand, a lot, air lines are full, folks are driving a lot, and the economy snapped back quickly last year, we had very high GDP growth, much of which is dependent on petroleum.  The stimulus monies were just added to all that, free money, let's hit the road.

According to data I have seen though, travel is back to pre-pandemic levels.  As in, 100%, not 150%. 

"North America: After a resilient 2021, traffic to/from/within North America will continue to perform strongly in 2022 as the US domestic market returns to pre-crisis trends, and with ongoing improvements in international travel. In 2022, passenger numbers will reach 94% of 2019 levels, and full recovery is expected in 2023 (102%), ahead of other regions."'
IATA - Air Passenger Numbers to Recover in 2024 (https://www.iata.org/en/pressroom/2022-releases/2022-03-01-01/)

Airlines are not stupid.  Ever since 2001, they have whittled down the number of flights to the point where every flight is as full as possible.  I have flown at least 30 times in the past 15 years.  I have yet to be on a flight that was not at least 75% full, and probably 80% of the time there were no empty seats at all.

As for vehicular travel, I don't have data for the past few months, but road travel appears to be back to pre-pandemic levels, but again, not surpassing 2019 levels.

Highway Travel - All Systems | Tyler Data & Insights (bts.gov)

 (https://data.bts.gov/Research-and-Statistics/Highway-Travel-All-Systems/qeh3-a6ec)I think you are exaggerating the effect of the stimulus checks.  Yes, absolutely, some people did not particularly need it and got a boon to their finances, but to others, it seriously was the difference between staying afloat and being on the streets.  I read an article recently about how the pandemic affected people's finances.  The results they found were that it kinda created a bit of a have and have-not exaggeration.  Those that had the ability to save, did, and are emerging from the pandemic in a better financial position to splurge a little, but for those that couldn't, what savings they did have were affected.

"A separate survey by T. Rowe Price painted an even bleaker picture, with nearly 70% of respondents saying their financial well-being had been negatively impacted by COVID-19, citing layoffs, reduced work hours/salary cuts, and overall less income as the top three reasons. Prior to the pandemic, 71% said they had a sufficient emergency fund (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/emergency_fund.asp). Now, 42% (of those) say they need to replenish their emergency fund."

I also found this article, which while it was obviously "wrong" in its projection, the gas prices were expected to fall based upon production versus consumption.  These numbers were based upon projected travel that was already considering the expected recovery of the travel industry.
Gas prices should drop below $3 per gallon in 2022, forecast says (usatoday.com)

 (https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2021/12/08/gas-price-drop-expected-2022/6430657001/)The fly in the ointment?  Russia invades Ukraine.  Chaos and uncertainty are bad for a market.  Oil production isn't particularly down right now, to my knowledge, it's just that the usual flow directions are in flux (Russia is going to export a lot less, the US is going to start exporting more, etc.).  So why the higher prices?  My opinion, the gas industry raises their prices to build up a buffer of money for if the crap really hits the fan (which, in fairness is a possibility).  This way if things go sideways, they can operate at a loss for a period of time and still keep their shareholders happy because of the 1 year / 5 year average.  As I said before, it's a money grab.  It's just (unfortunately) justifiable enough that we can't do anything about it.
 (https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2021/12/08/gas-price-drop-expected-2022/6430657001/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 03, 2022, 04:29:06 AM

Maybe so, it seems quite different to me as I search for hotel rooms and rental cars, things I used to find with ease, and now can't.

Our flight to LAX is full, according to the seating chart.  I do believe demand for petroleum globally has exceeded easy supply, perhaps OPEC hasn't come back in to full production.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 03, 2022, 06:40:17 AM

ATL is packed at 0630

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 03, 2022, 06:41:27 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/FStUMvF.jpg)Precheck line

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2022, 07:02:17 AM

Air travel during Covid was great, minus wearing the ineffective masks of course. No lines anywhere, and a row to yourself on the plane.

I should get special treatment from the airlines, as I was one of the ones who kept them open for 2 years...

:)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2022, 07:28:24 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 02, 2022, 04:36:05 PM

What specifically has he done?  Delay leases or stop fracking on Federal lands?  Oil companies have leases for 3-4 years, and most oil production is on private land in the US.  Stop the pipeline?  It wouldn't be built yet anyway, and of course it relates to tar sands oil (bitumen) from Canada, and that oil is being refined anyway (shipped by rail, at some increase in cost, and pipeline).  It also would have shipped less than has been released from the SPR anyway, which hasn't made much of a dent.

Brandon's EOs were largely folderol, meaningless, meant to appease part of his base.

It's the messaging. Markets react to signals from Government too, you know??

The proof is there, from the man himself (and not walked back):


“Here’s the situation. And when it comes to the gas prices, we’re going through an incredible transition that is taking place that, God willing, when it’s over, we’ll be stronger and the world will be stronger and less reliant on fossil fuels when this is over.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 03, 2022, 07:39:18 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2022, 07:02:17 AM

Air travel during Covid was great, minus wearing the ineffective masks of course. No lines anywhere, and a row to yourself on the plane.

I should get special treatment from the airlines, as I was one of the ones who kept them open for 2 years...

:)

My wife and I flew through LAX in February 2021, and the place was so quiet that it looked like the back end of the zombie apocalypse. Kinda weird, considering the place is a zoo normally. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2022, 07:53:42 AM

We had to travel to ORD quite a lot for a while, as I transitioned my company to younger partners. Probably 20 flights between March 2020 through the end of 2021. Yeah, ORD was mostly a ghost town. Even some of the restaurants shuttered. It's all back open now, and very busy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 03, 2022, 08:01:00 AM

How they get luggage sorted amazes me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2022, 08:30:37 AM

Remember when Monday Night Baseball was a thing?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 03, 2022, 08:32:27 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 02, 2022, 04:36:05 PM

What specifically has he done?  Delay leases or stop fracking on Federal lands?  Oil companies have leases for 3-4 years, and most oil production is on private land in the US.  Stop the pipeline?  It wouldn't be built yet anyway, and of course it relates to tar sands oil (bitumen) from Canada, and that oil is being refined anyway (shipped by rail, at some increase in cost, and pipeline).  It also would have shipped less than has been released from the SPR anyway, which hasn't made much of a dent.

Brandon's EOs were largely folderol, meaningless, meant to appease part of his base.

What the Biden adminstration did was to put up road blocks on the permiting process for the infrastructure needed to support the drilling and production on those leases. That allowed them to have that red herring of a talking point stating that the oil companies have thousands of leases they are not using. (If you cannot get your product from the well to the refiinery, it is worthless). Permits that used to take a few days to get approval were taking months or longer or never even being addressed. This causes major uncertainy in the market not knowing if they will ever be permitted to get at those oil deposits. And as we all know, uncertainy in any speculative market will cause a rise in prices of that commodity. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 03, 2022, 08:35:39 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 02, 2022, 04:48:25 PM

Folks like me couldn't travel in 2020, and didn't much in 2021, which meant we weren't spending money on travel.  That money accumulated, in effect, and now folks are traveling, which increases demand, a lot, air lines are full, folks are driving a lot, and the economy snapped back quickly last year, we had very high GDP growth, much of which is dependent on petroleum.  The stimulus monies were just added to all that, free money, let's hit the road.

You are right about the travel aspect. However that does not explain the lower labor participation rate that is as low as it has ever been. THAT is a big part of the problem. Those people that are not working are still eating and consuming other goods and services, yet are not working to offset their costs. That money is being funneled by gov't programs that are being supplied by money that we do not have. Thus we have to many dollars chasing to few goods and services. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 03, 2022, 08:39:14 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 02, 2022, 08:59:10 PM

I paid more than $3.99 for the first time today
$4.39
I don't like it
most signs I saw were $4.49
I don't think crude has gone up at the same rate as gasoline in the past 4-6 weeks

it's price gouging

gas stations used to work on percentages - probably still do, I don't know

but, if they were making 10% on $3/gallon, they're making a heck of a lot more on $4.50/gallon

You need to remember that most stations are indepenently owned and the owner is not paying for his last delivery, but instead is paying for his next. Therefore when the price of oil goes up, he immediately has to raise his price in an attempt to make enough to cover this next delivery. 

Also, gasoline is not is only cost. Labor has gone up drastically in the past year or so along with things like utilities, and other products and services that they provide. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 03, 2022, 08:51:33 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2022, 07:28:24 AM

It's the messaging. Markets react to signals from Government too, you know??

The proof is there, from the man himself (and not walked back):


“Here’s the situation. And when it comes to the gas prices, we’re going through an incredible transition that is taking place that, God willing, when it’s over, we’ll be stronger and the world will be stronger and less reliant on fossil fuels when this is over.”

So that's actually a little interesting to me in a sort of spiraling way. 

We're making the argument that business has to react to government "signals." That would imply something real and tangible. 

But the quote above is not really all that real and tangible. It's something that was pulled out of the middle of a meandering answer about the economy. The only way it's a signal is if the current president is extremely on-point with his words, always meaning everything he says to the letter. I suppose one could argue that, but I've also been told, repeatedly, that he's a chowderhead being rewarded with ice cream. And I'd have to assume that a business person who reads direct meaning and signals into out-of-context quotes from a ice cream loving chowder head is a moron. 

Now, what that quote was great for is divisive media fodder. We lament how the media is trying to divide us. But when the media waves around a quote that confirms our worldview, we just go along? This seems very trusting of the media, by and large. 

If we want to dwell on real policies, I can get behind that. But dwelling on low-context verbal burps from a person one thinks is an invalid, these are not the things "signals" are made of.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 03, 2022, 08:51:57 AM

I understand that stations are independently owned - I worked for an owner in high school

just saying that folks are making money on the high price of fuel

obviously the oil companies are making the most

just saying that record profits for the huge corporations that are oil companies are part of the record prices

I'd guess they could take 20 cents per gallon off right now and still make a very nice profit, but......... why would they?

Greedy bastages

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 03, 2022, 08:52:07 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2022, 07:02:17 AM

Air travel during Covid was great, minus wearing the ineffective masks of course. No lines anywhere, and a row to yourself on the plane.

I should get special treatment from the airlines, as I was one of the ones who kept them open for 2 years...

:)

Don't they already give you special treatment for flying that much?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 03, 2022, 08:55:57 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 03, 2022, 08:51:33 AM

So that's actually a little interesting to me in a sort of spiraling way.

We're making the argument that business has to react to government "signals." That would imply something real and tangible.

But the quote above is not really all that real and tangible. It's something that was pulled out of the middle of a meandering answer about the economy. The only way it's a signal is if the current president is extremely on-point with his words, always meaning everything he says to the letter. I suppose one could argue that, but I've also been told, repeatedly, that he's a chowderhead being rewarded with ice cream. And I'd have to assume that a business person who reads direct meaning and signals into out-of-context quotes from a ice cream loving chowder head is a moron.

Now, what that quote was great for is divisive media fodder. We lament how the media is trying to divide us. But when the media waves around a quote that confirms our worldview, we just go along? This seems very trusting of the media, by and large.

If we want to dwell on real policies, I can get behind that. But dwelling on low-context verbal burps from a person one thinks is an invalid, these are not the things "signals" are made of.

You would be correct if it was simply a one time, off the cuff statement. However this adminstration has been sending plenty of signals that they are hostile to fossil fuels. The biggest affect they have in thru the regulatory process where they are making it tough for companies to plan on future oil production. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 03, 2022, 08:58:15 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 03, 2022, 08:51:57 AM

I understand that stations are independently owned - I worked for an owner in high school

just saying that folks are making money on the high price of fuel

obviously the oil companies are making the most

just saying that record profits for the huge corporations that are oil companies are part of the record prices

I'd guess they could take 20 cents per gallon off right now and still make a very nice profit, but......... why would they?

Greedy bastages

I have not looked at it very closely of late, but the last time that we went through high gase prices, the oil companies profit margins actually decreased and were lower than most other business sectors. Record profits came from record high sales of their products, not a high profit margin. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2022, 08:59:16 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 03, 2022, 08:51:33 AM

So that's actually a little interesting to me in a sort of spiraling way.

We're making the argument that business has to react to government "signals." That would imply something real and tangible.

But the quote above is not really all that real and tangible. It's something that was pulled out of the middle of a meandering answer about the economy. The only way it's a signal is if the current president is extremely on-point with his words, always meaning everything he says to the letter. I suppose one could argue that, but I've also been told, repeatedly, that he's a chowderhead being rewarded with ice cream. And I'd have to assume that a business person who reads direct meaning and signals into out-of-context quotes from a ice cream loving chowder head is a moron.

Now, what that quote was great for is divisive media fodder. We lament how the media is trying to divide us. But when the media waves around a quote that confirms our worldview, we just go along? This seems very trusting of the media, by and large.

If we want to dwell on real policies, I can get behind that. But dwelling on low-context verbal burps from a person one thinks is an invalid, these are not the things "signals" are made of.

How about a signal to the oil companies to pump more oil here, rather than beg OPEC for more?

Ending leases and cancelling pipelines are not good signals for the market. There is not much more to say on the topic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2022, 09:00:09 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 03, 2022, 08:52:07 AM

Don't they already give you special treatment for flying that much?

Nope. Those days are over.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 03, 2022, 09:06:01 AM

We usually get upgraded 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 03, 2022, 09:10:25 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2022, 08:59:16 AM

How about a signal to the oil companies to pump more oil here, rather than beg OPEC for more?

Ending leases and cancelling pipelines are not good signals for the market. There is not much more to say on the topic.

If it were Trump he would have had several round table discussions with oil company reps plus appointing someone to head a task force to increase oil production

oh well come on 2024

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2022, 09:11:19 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 03, 2022, 09:06:01 AM

We usually get upgraded

We did too, because nobody was using (paying for) the first class seats. So there's that.

But now all of those seats are full ahead of time so there is no upgrade option. We just stay in premium economy, which I'm fine with.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on June 03, 2022, 09:14:09 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 31, 2022, 04:03:43 PM

I think this has a lot to do with it as well.

We have a serious mental health problem in this country, and handing out mind-altering pharmaceutical drugs like they are skittles probably isn't the answer.

This is a very understated point. The pharmaceuticals are drowning the population in entire classes of very addictive pills. For instance Benzodiazepines (Klonopin, Ativan, Xanax) were developed about 70 years ago to mentally numb and disable mental ward patients who were deemed beyond care in order for the medical staff to physically move them around easier. Nowadays both Klonopin and Xanax are two of the ten most prescribed medications nearly yearly. Both are prescribed with strict instructions for short term use only, yet most patients will use both for the rest of their life, primarily because they are very difficult to rehab from.

And that’s speaking for just the Benzos! Z-Drugs (Ambien), Painkillers (Percocets), Adderall, and antidepressants (Lexipro) are also abused, overprescribed, improperly mixed, sold second-hand, and worst of all, if their supply is interrupted, leaves its patients much more likely to try heroin, meth, and crack as substitutes for their next fix.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 03, 2022, 09:23:11 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 03, 2022, 09:06:01 AM

We usually get upgraded

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2022, 09:31:50 AM

We know.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2022, 10:05:54 AM

Should resign, but she won't.

'Paying the price': White House says it misread threat of inflation, but there were warnings (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/paying-the-price-white-house-says-it-misread-threat-of-inflation-but-there-were-warnings/ar-AAY1y5J?li=BBnbfcQ&ocid=msedgntp)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on June 03, 2022, 12:45:52 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2022, 08:59:16 AM

How about a signal to the oil companies to pump more oil here, rather than beg OPEC for more?

Ending leases and cancelling pipelines are not good signals for the market. There is not much more to say on the topic.

Several people here seem to keep missing the "we (the US) are going to be pumping more oil next year than any other time in our history" part.

The federal government (as in, part of the Biden administration) prepares these forecasts.  The oil companies are not listening to the politicians speeches.  90% of that is just lip service to their constituents.  The oil companies are reading the forecasts and planning accordingly.  Cancelling the leases means that plans that they had for drilling for oil 5 years from now have to be changed to move to different locations.  Yeah, that's annoying, but it's the "planning" phase of a project.  Nobody was laid off because at this point, these are just lines on paper.

According to the Interior Secretary, there are 9000 other permits for drilling that are approved and are currently not being used.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 03, 2022, 01:13:29 PM

Quote from: grillrat on June 03, 2022, 12:45:52 PM

Several people here seem to keep missing the "we (the US) are going to be pumping more oil next year than any other time in our history" part.

The federal government (as in, part of the Biden administration) prepares these forecasts.  The oil companies are not listening to the politicians speeches.  90% of that is just lip service to their constituents.  The oil companies are reading the forecasts and planning accordingly.  Cancelling the leases means that plans that they had for drilling for oil 5 years from now have to be changed to move to different locations.  Yeah, that's annoying, but it's the "planning" phase of a project.  Nobody was laid off because at this point, these are just lines on paper.

According to the Interior Secretary, there are 9000 other permits for drilling that are approved and are currently not being used. 

Planning as in forecasting. And being as the price of oil and hence it's byproducts (gas, diesel, etc) is determined through futures, you have just confirmed why those prices are rising. There is plenty of uncertainy in the market due to this administration. 

As for the permits, I believe you are wrong. There were 9000 approved leases, not permits. The leases were not being utilized due to the permiting process being brought to a craw by this administration. Without the permits, the leases are useless. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on June 03, 2022, 01:16:05 PM

I thought I heard the Biden administration canceled a lot of new leases?  Also hearing the administration is slow walking the permits and approvals related to actually drilling and developing a lease.  And they're adding new requirements such as statements on how a new pipeline terminal will impact social equity in the area in addition to the usual environmental impact statement.  The bottom line is if the oil companies think they can make money from a lease through all the BS they will develop the resource.   If not, the leased land will sit idle and your price at the pump will go higher.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on June 03, 2022, 01:21:18 PM

Customer POV, flying has never been more crappy than during this calendar year in my opinion.   The bar is so low right now.

Agreed, peak Covid '20 was swell along with after 9/11

Probably extra jaded from my extra delay last night over 'equipment' issues.  Translation, 4 delta techs to remove a broken tray table as it is an 'egress' issue and we can't leave til it is resolved.  + 45 minutes on a plane wo A/C as we werent fired up yet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2022, 01:25:13 PM

Quote from: grillrat on June 03, 2022, 12:45:52 PM

Several people here seem to keep missing the "we (the US) are going to be pumping more oil next year than any other time in our history" part.

The federal government (as in, part of the Biden administration) prepares these forecasts.  The oil companies are not listening to the politicians speeches.  90% of that is just lip service to their constituents.  The oil companies are reading the forecasts and planning accordingly.  Cancelling the leases means that plans that they had for drilling for oil 5 years from now have to be changed to move to different locations.  Yeah, that's annoying, but it's the "planning" phase of a project.  Nobody was laid off because at this point, these are just lines on paper.

According to the Interior Secretary, there are 9000 other permits for drilling that are approved and are currently not being used. 

And there should be more than that.

With the proven fields, we should be an exporter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 03, 2022, 01:27:42 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2022, 01:25:13 PM

And there should be more than that.

With the proven fields, we should be an exporter.

exactly

we should not be dependent on any other country for our energy needs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 03, 2022, 01:52:26 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on June 03, 2022, 01:16:05 PM

I thought I heard the Biden administration canceled a lot of new leases?  Also hearing the administration is slow walking the permits and approvals related to actually drilling and developing a lease.  And they're adding new requirements such as statements on how a new pipeline terminal will impact social equity in the area in addition to the usual environmental impact statement.  The bottom line is if the oil companies think they can make money from a lease through all the BS they will develop the resource.  If not, the leased land will sit idle and your price at the pump will go higher.

And that's the point. They are not willing to risk millions of dollars drilling a well to only have to abandon it due to lack of permits to move the oil. It is the regulations that the Biden Admin have implemented in the name of Green Enery or Social Justice or whatever idiotic narrative they are pushing, that is impededing domestic oil production. Sure, we may be pumping more now, but the prospects for that to continue are not looking good under this admin.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on June 03, 2022, 01:59:48 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 03, 2022, 01:13:29 PM

Planning as in forecasting. And being as the price of oil and hence it's byproducts (gas, diesel, etc) is determined through futures, you have just confirmed why those prices are rising. There is plenty of uncertainy in the market due to this administration.

As for the permits, I believe you are wrong. There were 9000 approved leases, not permits. The leases were not being utilized due to the permiting process being brought to a craw by this administration. Without the permits, the leases are useless.

Forecasting for NEXT year, not five years from now.  The price at the pump right now has extremely little to do with what the world is going to be looking like in five years.  As I said before, the oil companies are taking advantage of the situation.  Want proof?  Type "oil futures" (or any futures for that matter, even pork bellies...) into google and you will see they go out a year.  Not five.
Hell, Trump may be back in office in 3 and he'll reverse / retract every word that Biden and this administration uttered.  These oil companies have 100 projects on their board for where to drill.  Those plans are going to be updated every month based upon ongoing permits (as in, local ones, not federal), resource management, transportation, logistics, etc.

As for the second paragraph:
"Interior Secretary Deb Haaland said last month that the oil and gas industry is “set” with the amount of drilling permits at its disposal. She defended Biden administration actions to scale down federal leasing, saying that industry has about 9,000 permits that have been approved but are not being used.

"The industry is free to use these permits in a way they see fit. They just haven’t acted on those,” Haaland told a House committee last week."

Maybe the article I read was wrong or the Interior Secretary is lying, but she says permits.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2022, 03:29:48 PM

Who knows what we can believe anymore?

All I know is we should be energy independent and we are not.

Bring back nukes. Keep expanding wind/solar where it makes sense. We're gonna need all of that for the grid when we're all driving EV's eventually.

But don't limit oil or NG at all. That will take care of itself once the rest of the sources are sorted out. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 03, 2022, 04:16:00 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2022, 03:29:48 PM

All I know is we should be energy independent and we are not.

In your view, what specifically does that mean? And what would the primary benefits be?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 03, 2022, 04:30:03 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 03, 2022, 04:16:00 PM

In your view, what specifically does that mean? And what would the primary benefits be?

the primary benefit would be we cant be held hostage

more jobs and better economic conditions

hell we might even be able to export some 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 03, 2022, 08:27:41 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2022, 08:59:16 AM

How about a signal to the oil companies to pump more oil here, rather than beg OPEC for more?

Ending leases and cancelling pipelines are not good signals for the market. There is not much more to say on the topic.

It's a global market. Price isn't dictated based just on how much oil we produce. It's everyone- and it's production & exports. OPEC is the major market mover bc it exports over 60% of all the worlds oil exports. Saudis and Russia together alone export like 30% of the worlds oil. They are the major market movers. That's two freaking countries.

A President who can get the Saudis (and therefore OPEC) to play ball is much more important than any leases or pipelines. Last guy had the Saudis wrapped around his little finger. New guy is an incompetent senile moron who can't even get them to pick up his phone calls.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 04, 2022, 06:22:48 AM

Right, oil the US can inject more oil into the market, but it is not.

Supply and demand.

Too much demand and here we are.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 04, 2022, 06:43:04 AM

Airlines step up push to get U.S. to drop international COVID-19 testing rule | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/airlines-step-up-push-get-us-drop-international-covid-19-testing-rule-2022-06-03/)

He noted testing rules do not apply to people crossing U.S. land borders and noted the Boston Red Sox baseball team in April flew to Toronto to play the Blue Jays - but rode a bus home to avoid the testing requirements.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 04, 2022, 09:39:13 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2022, 01:25:13 PM

And there should be more than that.

With the proven fields, we should be an exporter.

we should be exporting enuff to shut off russian oil completely 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 04, 2022, 10:10:53 AM

That's what I'm getting at. We have enough proven fields to do it. There needs to be incentives to do so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 04, 2022, 10:15:10 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 03, 2022, 04:30:03 PM

the primary benefit would be we cant be held hostage

...

hell we might even be able to export some

So I'm not totally sure what the first part means. I suppose if everyone wanted to shut us off, we would be able to be held hostage. But we'd still very much be subject to price spikes like the one's we're experiencing. After all, in capitalism, price drives it all)

Now the exporting some thing is interesting because it gets into trade balance and differentiated goods. Even when we have a net negative balance of trade for oil, we still export a good bit. Sometimes we import some oil, have it processed, export it, or vice versa. Our chemist can probably explain more on that front. 

But anyway, through April, we were on a run of seven months of being net exporters of petroleum (the May data isn't out yet). It'll be interesting to see if that trend holds or breaks back. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 04, 2022, 10:23:51 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 04, 2022, 09:39:13 AM

we should be exporting enuff to shut off russian oil completely

The economics of such a thing would be ... tricky, if not impossible. 

You'd just crater the price of oil and gas to a point where US companies would simply cut workers and delay production. Other countries have an advantage of sorts, simply because the people in charge often don't care about their people/workers (and they're SO reliant on oil sales). So they can chase more desperate policies and under price to get something out of it, while our more independent companies react more rationally to economic incentives. 

Now in a pure economic sense, that would be them giving us free value, but it would mean we'd not be a net exporter, which historically has been a bit of a shortsighted end goal. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 04, 2022, 10:34:20 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 04, 2022, 10:15:10 AM

But anyway, through April, we were on a run of seven months of being net exporters of petroleum (the May data isn't out yet). It'll be interesting to see if that trend holds or breaks back.

Thats news to me

are you saying we currently produce all the petroleum the US needs and export some on top of that

I dont think so

please show support for this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 04, 2022, 10:40:45 AM

from what I've read, the oil being sold by Russia today is selling at a reduced price

I understand of they keep dropping the price they will sell oil

but, if we could cause Russia to drop the price further it would hurt their economy more

flooding the world market with oil, diesel, natural gas, and other things that Russia exports would be the goal

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 04, 2022, 11:07:14 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 04, 2022, 10:34:20 AM

Thats news to me

are you saying we currently produce all the petroleum the US needs and export some on top of that

I dont think so

please show support for this

Link (https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/browser/index.php?tbl=T03.01#/?f=M&start=200001)

The phrasing "we currently produce all the petroleum the US needs and export some on top of that" is a bit of a misnomer. We are net exporters. But the nature of modern economics are that we're never going to be in a position where we produce 100 percent of what we need and then send off the rest. Even in 2020, when the US became a net exporter for the first time, we still imported a lot of oil (a lot from Canada), but we exported more. 

It's very unlikely we'll get to a point where we only consume oil we produce and send off the rest, and if we somehow could, it would very likely be economically inefficient for us. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 04, 2022, 12:19:17 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 04, 2022, 11:07:14 AM

Link (https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/browser/index.php?tbl=T03.01#/?f=M&start=200001)

The phrasing "we currently produce all the petroleum the US needs and export some on top of that" is a bit of a misnomer. We are net exporters. But the nature of modern economics are that we're never going to be in a position where we produce 100 percent of what we need and then send off the rest. Even in 2020, when the US became a net exporter for the first time, we still imported a lot of oil (a lot from Canada), but we exported more.

It's very unlikely we'll get to a point where we only consume oil we produce and send off the rest, and if we somehow could, it would very likely be economically inefficient for us.

looking at your link what is NGL

if its natural gas then it muddies the view of petroleum

making it simple daily consumption of oil = 18 mil daily production of oil = 11 mil

we are shy by 7 mil a day

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 04, 2022, 12:43:25 PM

Man, I would be super pissed if I were a bumblebee.

California court rules a bumblebee is a fish under environmental law | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-court-bumblebee-fish-environmental-law)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 04, 2022, 12:43:31 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 04, 2022, 12:19:17 PM

looking at your link what is NGL

if its natural gas then it muddies the view of petroleum

making it simple daily consumption of oil = 18 mil daily production of oil = 11 mil

we are shy by 7 mil a day

For my clarification, where is that consumption number coming from?

That NGL is “natural gas liquids.” So to be clear, we’re not talking about energy or processed fuel, we’re talking just crude oil?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 04, 2022, 12:50:17 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 04, 2022, 12:43:31 PM

For my clarification, where is that consumption number coming from?

That NGL is “natural gas liquids.” So to be clear, we’re not talking about energy or processed fuel, we’re talking just crude oil?

ok let me ask my question differently

If our total production of oil is 11,000.000 gal a day and our consumption is 18,000,000 gal a day

where do we get the oil that we export

imports are pegged at 8,000,000 gal a day which makes sense but on top of this we are supposed to export 8,000,000 which is a mystery to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 04, 2022, 01:26:56 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 04, 2022, 12:50:17 PM

ok let me ask my question differently

If our total production of oil is 11,000.000 gal a day and our consumption is 18,000,000 gal a day

where do we get the oil that we export

imports are pegged at 8,000,000 gal a day which makes sense but on top of this we are supposed to export 8,000,000 which is a mystery to me.

Again, remind me of where that 18 million number comes from (it's barrels, not gallons, BTW). If I know where that is I can better say if that is "petroleum," which includes natural gas liquids. Otherwise we're talking apples and oranges. 

The question overall seems to be muddling a lot of questions. Who has pegged that import number? You seem to have a lot of things spun around and stuck together, which seems to be leading to the confusion. 

I'll answer what I think is a type of question you're trying to get at. If we produce say 15 million barrels of petroleum and consume 15 million, there could and almost assuredly is some amount of importing and exporting, owing to how different companies do business and how things are refined (i.e., you could import crude and then sell it as gasoline to whoever). We don't just use all the local oil/petroleum/whatnot first and then go to the foreign stuff. (the same way that we don't drive all the fords first, and then fill out the rest of cars with imports)

It still feels like there's a lot of imprecision in what we're getting at here, which might lead to a reality that "energy" independence is more catchy slogan that tangible policy goal (or wise economic goal). This is not to say that expanding our capability and shrinking reliance on things like oil are not worthy goals for a variety of reasons. These generally are good. But we'll still be subject to oil shocks and such as long as we still use the stuff, which will be for a long, long time. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 04, 2022, 01:40:17 PM

Oil Production

https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_crude_oil_field_production

Oil Use

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=33&t=6#:~:text=In%202021%2C%20the%20United%20States,day%20over%20consumption%20in%202020.

I could have chosen from dozens of sites

11 mil bar produced

19 mil bar used

where do the exports come from

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 04, 2022, 02:10:08 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 04, 2022, 01:40:17 PM

Oil Production

https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_crude_oil_field_production

Oil Use

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=33&t=6#:~:text=In%202021%2C%20the%20United%20States,day%20over%20consumption%20in%202020.

I could have chosen from dozens of sites

11 mil bar produced

19 mil bar used

where do the exports come from

One of those is crude oil, the other is petroleum, which includes NGL.

The first sentence of that second page: “Only a small amount of crude oil is directly consumed in the United States.”

Note: we are a net importer of crude oil. I wouldn’t argue that. But if that’s the case, the 19 million isn’t a number that matters. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 04, 2022, 02:49:04 PM

Im talking crude oil

total production is 11,000,000 BL day

Total use is 18,000,000 BL day

These are facts which can be found at many sites

Where do we get crude oil to export

and ys most of the crude oil produced in the US is used in the US so Im not sure where you find otherwise

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 04, 2022, 04:45:46 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 04, 2022, 02:49:04 PM

Im talking crude oil

total production is 11,000,000 BL day

Total use is 18,000,000 BL day

These are facts which can be found at many sites

Where do we get crude oil to export

and ys most of the crude oil produced in the US is used in the US so Im not sure where you find otherwise

Please direct me to the site that 18 million barrels of crude oil are used by the United States every day. that other site says someone clearly that it is 19 million barrels of petroleum. That site also says in several spots that there is no good way to track the amount of crude oil we use.

there is actually some data on crude oil imports and exports, but it doesn’t have anything to do with that 18 million number.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 04, 2022, 05:23:39 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 04, 2022, 04:45:46 PM

Please direct me to the site that 18 million barrels of crude oil are used by the United States every day. that other site says someone clearly that it is 19 million barrels of petroleum. That site also says in several spots that there is no good way to track the amount of crude oil we use.

there is actually some data on crude oil imports and exports, but it doesn’t have anything to do with that 18 million number.

the use of the word petroleum does not include natural gas its all crude oil

they talk about barrels of petroleum and nobody ever heard of a barrel of natural gas

so I'll ask my question again

Produce 11

Use 19

where does the extra crude oil come from which we are supposed  to be exporting

we use all most all crude oil produced and import the difference

I dont see any way we could be exporting 8 mil barrels of crude oil daily

where does it come from

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 04, 2022, 06:07:15 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 04, 2022, 05:23:39 PM

the use of the word petroleum does not include natural gas its all crude oil

they talk about barrels of petroleum and nobody ever heard of a barrel of natural gas

so I'll ask my question again

Produce 11

Use 19

where does the extra crude oil come from which we are supposed  to be exporting

we use all most all crude oil produced and import the difference

I dont see any way we could be exporting 8 mil barrels of crude oil daily

where does it come from

Longhorn. Friend. The reason you don't see that is because it is something that seems to have been completely made up. By you. At no point have I said (or anyone one here said) that we are exporting that many barrels of crude, or that we are even exporting barrels of crude. You are asking a question that does not make any sense. 

Here's the source of the 19 million stat. Note, it says "Only a small amount of crude oil is directly consumed in the United States." and "In 2021, the United States consumed an average of about 19.78 million barrels of petroleum per day." https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=33&t=6


Here is another breakdown: https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=268&t=6

Here is a breakdown of our crude oil imports and exports: https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=32&t=6

Here is a nice explainer about how we don't really know how much domestic oil is consumed in country: https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=268&t=6

Most of this does not have to do with energy independence. If the aim is to equate production of unrefined oil with total usage of refined products, then we have a very long way to go, but we'd also be chasing a policy that would be about making numbers of two different things the same, which simply does not make much sense. That 11 million and 19 million are barrels of different things. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 04, 2022, 06:21:25 PM

But anyway, through April, we were on a run of seven months of being net exporters of petroleum (the May data isn't out yet). It'll be interesting to see if that trend holds or breaks back. 

Your exact words

Petroleum means crude oil

and we were not net exporters of petroleum

Ive shown you the source for production and use of crude oil in the US and I guess you just dont believe it friend

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 04, 2022, 06:32:17 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 04, 2022, 06:07:15 PM

Longhorn. Friend. The reason you don't see that is because it is something that seems to have been completely made up. By you. At no point have I said (or anyone one here said) that we are exporting that many barrels of crude, or that we are even exporting barrels of crude. You are asking a question that does not make any sense.

Here's the source of the 19 million stat. Note, it says "Only a small amount of crude oil is directly consumed in the United States." 

Thsi cant possibly be true

If we import 8 mil BL of crude and produce 11 mil BL of crude and our total usage is 19 mil BL of crude how can you say very little of the crude produced in the US is consumed in the US

That cant be true

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 04, 2022, 09:01:20 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 04, 2022, 12:43:25 PM

Man, I would be super pissed if I were a bumblebee.

California court rules a bumblebee is a fish under environmental law | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-court-bumblebee-fish-environmental-law)

makes sense. those freaks in Shithole California don't even know what a boy or girl is anymore.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 04, 2022, 09:02:14 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 04, 2022, 09:39:13 AM

we should be exporting enuff to shut off russian oil completely

this is just a literal impossibility and has no basis in reality. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 04, 2022, 09:11:45 PM

I'm just saying, the world should be able to live w/o Russian crude

should be able to ramp up production in North America and the middle east to hurt Russia

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 04, 2022, 09:15:29 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 04, 2022, 09:11:45 PM

I'm just saying, the world should be able to live w/o Russian crude

should be able to ramp up production in North America and the middle east to hurt Russia

Russia isn't being hurt. WE ARE. The US/EU and it's citizenry are. The Russian ruble is higher right now than it was before the start of the war. The Russian ruble has been the best-performing currency in the world to date this year.

And what you're saying is just an impossibility. Russia is the 2nd largest exporter of oil in the world and the 3rd largest producer. The US/Middle East can't just replace them by ramping up production. It's a literal impossibility. And Saudis aren't playing ball and would never- they HATE Biden and want to see him run out of office.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 04, 2022, 10:20:59 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 04, 2022, 06:21:25 PM

But anyway, through April, we were on a run of seven months of being net exporters of petroleum (the May data isn't out yet). It'll be interesting to see if that trend holds or breaks back.

Your exact words

Petroleum means crude oil

and we were not net exporters of petroleum

Ive shown you the source for production and use of crude oil in the US and I guess you just dont believe it friend

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 04, 2022, 06:32:17 PM

Thsi cant possibly be true

If we import 8 mil BL of crude and produce 11 mil BL of crude and our total usage is 19 mil BL of crude how can you say very little of the crude produced in the US is consumed in the US

That cant be true

I beg of you, read the links, with the background information about the statistics you keep citing.

Petroleum does not mean crude oil. Crude oil is unprocessed. Petroleum is processed and is a broader category. If you don't believe that quote, then you don't believe the people who make those statistics you keep citing. So it makes no sense to cite the statistics. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 04, 2022, 10:23:37 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 04, 2022, 12:43:25 PM

Man, I would be super pissed if I were a bumblebee.

California court rules a bumblebee is a fish under environmental law | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-court-bumblebee-fish-environmental-law)

This is one of those funny pieces of divisive clickbait. It's for the most part pointless, but it's an excellent example of the media deepening divisions for financial gain. 

Another small bit of credence to my belief that it's not so much "the media dividing us" but instead a desire to divide ourselves that the media just plays a hand in deepening for profit. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 04, 2022, 10:46:27 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 04, 2022, 10:20:59 PM

I beg of you, read the links, with the background information about the statistics you keep citing.

Petroleum does not mean crude oil. Crude oil is unprocessed. Petroleum is processed and is a broader category. If you don't believe that quote, then you don't believe the people who make those statistics you keep citing. So it makes no sense to cite the statistics.

Fine Im only talking about crude oil

US produces 11 mil BL a day

US consumes 19 mil BL of crude oil a day

what is wrong with these statements

where are they wrong

yes I know crude oil is refined into various products such as gasoline so what

Im talking about crude oil which is refined petroleum

and by the way you have it backwards crude oil is from processing petroleum into crude oil and removing natural gases

petroleum is what comes out of the ground and crude oil is processed from petroleum

Im talking only about crude oil

https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-crude-oil-and-vs-petroleum/#:~:text=Crude%20oil%20is%20refined%2C%20and,between%20Crude%20Oil%20and%20Petroleum%3F&text=The%20mixture%20of%20crude%20oil%20and%20natural%20gases%20is%20known%20as%20petroleum.&text=Natural%20gases%20are%20dissolved%20in%20crude%20oil%2C%20to%20make%20petroleum.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 04, 2022, 11:22:41 PM

Only about 35% of petroleum exports was crude oil or about 3 mil BL day

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=727&t=6#:~:text=In%202021%2C%20the%20United%20States%20exported%20about%208.63%20million%20b,gross%20petroleum%20exports%20in%202021.

The question Ive got is why we export any crude oil if there is a fuel shortage

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 04, 2022, 11:47:12 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 04, 2022, 10:46:27 PM

Fine Im only talking about crude oil

US produces 11 mil BL a day

US consumes 19 mil BL of crude oil a day

what is wrong with these statements

where are they wrong

yes I know crude oil is refined into various products such as gasoline so what

Im talking about crude oil which is refined petroleum

and by the way you have it backwards crude oil is from processing petroleum into crude oil and removing natural gases

petroleum is what comes out of the ground and crude oil is processed from petroleum

Im talking only about crude oil

https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-crude-oil-and-vs-petroleum/#:~:text=Crude%20oil%20is%20refined%2C%20and,between%20Crude%20Oil%20and%20Petroleum%3F&text=The%20mixture%20of%20crude%20oil%20and%20natural%20gases%20is%20known%20as%20petroleum.&text=Natural%20gases%20are%20dissolved%20in%20crude%20oil%2C%20to%20make%20petroleum.

"what is wrong with these statements

where are they wrong"

They're wrong because the 19 million is measured in a broader category than crude oil. It's a category that includes some natural gas liquids and even some bio fuels. 

Now, you've linked to a crowdsourced definition. Which is fine and dandy, but I went ahead and found the definitions used by the folks who delivered all those stats. This is what we have:

(https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=40&t=6): "Crude oil is a mixture of hydrocarbons that exists as a liquid in underground geologic formations and remains a liquid when brought to the surface. Petroleum products are produced from the processing of crude oil and other liquids at petroleum refineries, from the extraction of liquid hydrocarbons at natural gas processing plants, and from the production of finished petroleum products at blending facilities. Petroleum is a broad category that includes both crude oil and petroleum products. The terms oil and petroleum are sometimes used interchangeably."

What's more, there's a link to a glossary: 

(https://www.eia.gov/tools/glossary/index.php?id=P#petro): "Petroleum:  A broadly defined class of liquid hydrocarbon mixtures. Included are crude oil, lease condensate, unfinished oils, refined products obtained from the processing of crude oil, and natural gas plant liquids. Note: Volumes of finished petroleum products include non hydrocarbon compounds, such as additives and detergents, after they have been blended into the products."

And here is an explainer, from that same organization that describes "U.S. total petroleum production" as the sum of "crude oil" "natural gas liquids" "biofuels and oxygenates" and "refinery processing gain": https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=268&t=6

So it would be pretty dang silly if they referred to "petroleum production" and "petroleum consumption" with different accounting. Using occam's razor, we can most clearly deduce that our 19 million in consumption is also the sum of "crude oil" "natural gas liquids" "biofuels and oxygenates" and "refinery processing gain".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 05, 2022, 12:06:52 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 04, 2022, 11:47:12 PM

So it would be pretty dang silly if they referred to "petroleum production" and "petroleum consumption" with different accounting. Using occam's razor, we can most clearly deduce that our 19 million in consumption is also the sum of "crude oil" "natural gas liquids" "biofuels and oxygenates" and "refinery processing gain".

and see I think they are only talking about crude oil and not including natural gas

I make that assumption based on the fact that in the same analysis they talk about crude oil production

so it would make little sense to talk about consumption of a different thing

I think they are using the word petroleum meaning crude oil

I will continue to study this to see if Im wrong 

and hey if Im wrong so be it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 05, 2022, 07:33:29 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 04, 2022, 10:23:37 PM

This is one of those funny pieces of divisive clickbait. It's for the most part pointless, but it's an excellent example of the media deepening divisions for financial gain.

Another small bit of credence to my belief that it's not so much "the media dividing us" but instead a desire to divide ourselves that the media just plays a hand in deepening for profit.

How is that divisive?

I don't give a crap about what California calls bees.

I do wonder why court time was used for something like this. Seems like there are bigger bees to fry.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 05, 2022, 08:44:24 PM

trying to watch the NBA fianls

so far so good

rooting against the Celtics

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on June 05, 2022, 10:08:16 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 05, 2022, 08:44:24 PM

trying to watch the NBA fianls

so far so good

rooting against the Celtics

Poole was killing them.  They benched him, it swung the game.  Then they brought him back in after sitting out for nearly 2 quarters and he hits a pair of 3s.  I think coaching is overrated, but damn, Kerr pushes all the right buttons

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 05, 2022, 10:19:50 PM

entertaining enuff I'm still watching

but, it's game over now

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 06, 2022, 08:36:25 AM

78 years ago today. That was something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 06, 2022, 10:40:57 AM

Indeed.

In the past year I got a picture from my dad of Grandpa GR, who went ashore later in the afternoon on D-Day, taken somewhere in the Ardennes in February 1945. Not sure how Dad found it, but it's now in a prominent place in our house.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 06, 2022, 10:46:18 AM

Did Grampa GR make it out of there?

In all of our years, I don't think I ever knew he was even there. Damn.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 06, 2022, 11:14:01 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 06, 2022, 10:46:18 AM

Did Grampa GR make it out of there?

In all of our years, I don't think I ever knew he was even there. Damn.

Yes he did. He sent arty shells at the Nazis from Normandy to Germany, and was deaf as a post in one ear because of it. Two Bronze Stars. 

He also never told a soul about what he did in Europe during the war, including his wife of 54 years or my dad who drove a tank in Korea in 1968. We only learned about it on the day he died and we looked at his DD214.

Both my grandfathers died in the late summer/fall of 2001. I miss them both.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 06, 2022, 11:14:35 AM

@GopherRock (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=47) , how did Grandpa GR fare?  

@847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) , sorry I started a new thread for this, I hadn't checked this one first but I think D-Day probably deserves it's own thread anyway.  Merge if you think it necessary.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 06, 2022, 11:17:23 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on June 06, 2022, 11:14:01 AM

Yes he did. He sent arty shells at the Nazis from Normandy to Germany, and was deaf as a post in one ear because of it. Two Bronze Stars.

They really didn't believe in ear protection back then.  Even when my dad was in (1958-1961) he was in 8" Self-Propelled Howitzers and they NEVER wore ear protection.  Just the sound of the V12 engine was probably louder than a Rock Concert and the sound of those guns going off was damaging.  My dad eventually had hearing aids from the VA after my mom made him go get them because he couldn't hear her.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 06, 2022, 11:19:20 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 06, 2022, 11:14:35 AM

@GopherRock (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=47) , how did Grandpa GR fare? 

@847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) , sorry I started a new thread for this, I hadn't checked this one first but I think D-Day probably deserves it's own thread anyway.  Merge if you think it necessary. 

Yes, it does for sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 06, 2022, 11:42:26 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on June 06, 2022, 11:14:01 AM

Yes he did. He sent arty shells at the Nazis from Normandy to Germany, and was deaf as a post in one ear because of it. Two Bronze Stars.

Glad they came home - Just curious 57s/75s/105s/155s?The GIs had some good arty,screw on the proximity fuse and lord have mercy.Plenty of Landsers came out of the woods grabbing some sky

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 06, 2022, 11:43:51 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 06, 2022, 11:17:23 AM

  My dad eventually had hearing aids from the VA after my mom made him go get them because he couldn't hear her. 

Well he prolly didn't mind ;D

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 06, 2022, 01:02:53 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 06, 2022, 11:42:26 AM

Glad they came home - Just curious 57s/75s/105s/155s?The GIs had some good arty,screw on the proximity fuse and lord have mercy.Plenty of Landsers came out of the woods grabbing some sky

Not sure what his unit was firing. Maybe 75s but that's just a straight guess. I haven't looked at that DD214 since right after he died, and that's been a long time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 06, 2022, 03:35:00 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 06, 2022, 11:43:51 AM

Well he prolly didn't mind ;D

LoL.  Probably why he wasn't in a big hurry about getting the hearing aids.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 06, 2022, 03:40:40 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 06, 2022, 11:42:26 AM

Glad they came home

Agreed!

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 06, 2022, 11:42:26 AM

screw on the proximity fuse

The Proximity Fuse or VT Fuse (stood for Variable Time) developed by the Allies during WWII is undoubtedly the most underappreciated technological advance of the whole war.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 06, 2022, 03:41:43 PM

undoubtedly??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 07, 2022, 07:54:11 AM

Not a huge surprise here.

Canada handgun sales soar after Trudeau proposes freeze (france24.com) (https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220605-canada-handgun-sales-soar-after-trudeau-proposes-freeze)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 07, 2022, 07:57:24 AM

WELLINGTON, New Zealand (AP) — The United States won a legal battle on Tuesday to seize a Russian-owned superyacht in Fiji and wasted no time in taking command of the $325 million vessel and sailing it away from the South Pacific nation.

The court ruling represented a significant victory for the U.S. as it encounters obstacles in its attempts to seize the assets of Russian oligarchs around the world. While those efforts are welcomed by many who oppose the war in Ukraine, some actions have tested the limits of American jurisdiction abroad.

In Fiji, the nation’s Supreme Court lifted a stay order which had prevented the U.S. from seizing the superyacht Amadea.

Chief Justice Kamal Kumar ruled that based on the evidence, the chances of defense lawyers mounting an appeal that the top court would hear were “nil to very slim.”

Kumar said he accepted arguments that keeping the superyacht berthed in Fiji at Lautoka harbor was “costing the Fijian government dearly.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 09, 2022, 09:26:38 AM

What's everyone doing for Father's Day? I know.. Hallmark holiday and all that, but still.

We'll probably go boating, go see a band at our local haunt and then come home to a bone-in ribeye.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 09, 2022, 09:58:22 AM

just saw Top Gun Maverick recently....it was an excellent movie. No liberal Hollywood bullsh*t or messaging/themes or LGBTQTIAAAFD+ bullsh*t....just good ole' fashioned block buster action entertainment. Definitely one of the best sequels ever made and imo- MUCH better film than the first movie. 

And it's absolutely crushing the world wide box office despite being banned in China over Maverick's jacket having a Taiwanese flag on the back. Chinese censors told the film makers to remove it- and in an epic and rare move- a Hollywood studio told China to f**k off and we're not removing shit- so China banned the film. Good for the film makers/producers/studios....and seriously....f**k China. About god damn time one American company/entity grew a pair of f***king balls and told China to suck on a fat one and stick it where the sun doesn't shine. 

Tom Cruise really is just the god damn man, and man do I wish I owned a fighter jet. That looks like so much fun lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 09, 2022, 10:00:22 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 07, 2022, 07:54:11 AM

Not a huge surprise here.

Canada handgun sales soar after Trudeau proposes freeze (france24.com) (https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220605-canada-handgun-sales-soar-after-trudeau-proposes-freeze)

there isn't a bigger turd "leader" in the West than that sorry sack of shit in Canada. I've always disliked Canada and thought it was a pointless and useless country that shouldn't exist, this dude just makes me dislike it even more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 09, 2022, 10:18:21 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 09, 2022, 10:00:22 AM

there isn't a bigger turd "leader" in the West than that sorry sack of shit in Canada. I've always disliked Canada and thought it was a pointless and useless country that shouldn't exist, this dude just makes me dislike it even more.

Dont judge Canada by that dirt bag

Canada has always been a good friend of the US

I just hope they find a pair and dump that guy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 09, 2022, 10:43:20 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 09, 2022, 10:18:21 AM

Dont judge Canada by that dirt bag

Canada has always been a good friend of the US

I just hope they find a pair and dump that guy

I've disliked Canada way before him. I used to live 5 mins away from Canada.....Canada sucks. And it's pointless. I have no use for it. Why does it even exist? Plus they keep sending us shitty asswipe lesbians who make awful music....like Justin Bieber.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 09, 2022, 12:04:17 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 09, 2022, 10:43:20 AM

I've disliked Canada way before him. I used to live 5 mins away from Canada.....Canada sucks. And it's pointless. I have no use for it. Why does it even exist? Plus they keep sending us shitty asswipe lesbians who make awful music....like Justin Bieber.

sounds like you need to cut off diplomatic relations and cut them out of your will

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 09, 2022, 06:48:18 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 09, 2022, 09:26:38 AM

What's everyone doing for Father's Day? I know.. Hallmark holiday and all that, but still.

We'll probably go boating, go see a band at our local haunt and then come home to a bone-in ribeye.

Standard tradition. 

Mom calls, reminds me to call dad. Call dad, dad says we don't celebrate that made up holiday, but that they're doing something relaxing that he wants to do. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 09, 2022, 07:22:24 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 09, 2022, 09:26:38 AM

What's everyone doing for Father's Day? I know.. Hallmark holiday and all that, but still.

We'll probably go boating, go see a band at our local haunt and then come home to a bone-in ribeye.

both my daughters flying into Florida her from Michigan.  Very happy! 😊

Probably lounge around the pool, go for a boat ride, out for a dinner or two and watch some U.S. Open!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 09, 2022, 07:24:13 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 09, 2022, 10:00:22 AM

I've always disliked Canada and thought it was a pointless and useless country that shouldn't exist, this dude just makes me dislike it even more.

You're a Man of Constant Sorrow and benefit from low expectations.You should be taken deep into a woods and disemboweled with a wooden spoon - Great Country

P.S. - Neil Young,Gordon Lightfoot,Rush,Guess Who,Bachman-Turner Overdrive,Joni Mitchell to name a few never heard of a slappie named Mdot :D

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 09, 2022, 10:18:14 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 09, 2022, 07:24:13 PM

You're a Man of Constant Sorrow and benefit from low expectations.You should be taken deep into a woods and disemboweled with a wooden spoon - Great Country

P.S. - Neil Young,Gordon Lightfoot,Rush,Guess Who,Bachman-Turner Overdrive,Joni Mitchell to name a few never heard of a slappie named Mdot :D

(https://c.tenor.com/5qAxPh9-WtIAAAAC/i-guarantee-you-i-have-no-idea-what-that-means-john-cusack.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 09, 2022, 10:32:55 PM

get back on your meds man

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 10, 2022, 06:06:21 AM

Neil Young sucks. He alone is reason to nuke Canada.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 10, 2022, 08:02:15 AM

The Toronto airport was awful.  Canada in my experience is quite nice, as are Canadians.  I look forward to visiting Vancouver soonish.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 10, 2022, 09:54:04 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 10, 2022, 06:06:21 AM

Neil Young sucks. He alone is reason to nuke Canada.

Along with Rush then,old bitter Badger Fan just a stirrin' up the pot

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 10, 2022, 10:05:20 AM

Neil Young: Take my music off Spotify!!


Spotify: Cool.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 10, 2022, 10:10:30 AM

Ya well he kinda is a wanker,I agree but his earlier stuff was good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 10, 2022, 10:27:14 AM

Much like Bob Dylan, they guy can't sing and never could. But he does and did, and he sucks and sucked at it.

And he's WAY overrated on the guitar too. I could name a hundred that do/did it better. At least.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 10, 2022, 10:31:43 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 10, 2022, 06:06:21 AM

Neil Young sucks. He alone is reason to nuke Canada.

AMEN. Lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 10, 2022, 10:34:19 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 10, 2022, 10:05:20 AM

Neil Young: Take my music off Spotify!!


Spotify: Cool.

Spotify is all Taylor Swift, Billie Ellish, Ed Sheeran, Justin Bieber, Drake and all the hits of today. If one of those type artists had a problem with Joe Rogan, Spotify probably doesn't take Rogan off the air but they at least listen to their concerns. Those artists drive literally billions and billions of streams.

They basically told Neil Young don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out. :043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 10, 2022, 10:36:13 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 10, 2022, 10:27:14 AM

Much like Bob Dylan, they guy can't sing and never could. But he does and did, and he sucks and sucked at it.

And he's WAY overrated on the guitar too. I could name a hundred that do/did it better. At least.

Amen. At least Dylan has lyrics. I can stomach to listen to some of his stuff- but yeah he was an awful singer. Young is even worse.

Neil Young just sucks all-around. There is nothing he does well. He blows.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 10, 2022, 10:38:32 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/exajaNw.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 10, 2022, 10:38:46 AM

Young apparently had success and made a good bit of money doing it.

So, he did some things well apparently.  I understand that while I may dislike some "artist", it doesn't mean they aren't commercial successes.  There is probably a negative correlation there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 10, 2022, 11:30:23 AM

I guess I could see listening to him if I was stoned and drunk out of my mind.

But in that state, I could even listen to Celine Dion or Whitney Houston.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 10, 2022, 12:15:11 PM

I bet few here "enjoy" rap music either, but it's made folks a lot of money.

I enjoy classical quite a bit, which likely is not everyone's cup of beer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 10, 2022, 12:19:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 10, 2022, 12:15:11 PM

I bet few here "enjoy" rap music either, but it's made folks a lot of money.

I enjoy classical quite a bit, which likely is not everyone's cup of beer.

I like some classical and no rap

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 10, 2022, 03:03:07 PM

I like a lot of older country, jazz, blues, classical, older rock, Big Band, anything with a decent tune.  We stumbled across a place in Versailles, FR that had blues and it was great.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 10, 2022, 03:54:46 PM

Hartsfield-Jackson makes headway on extension to speed Plane Train (ajc.com) (https://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-airport-blog/hartsfield-jackson-makes-headway-on-extension-to-speed-plane-train/VOBT3G6XDREAFLXJZPRP3AKMTY/?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot&ecmp=intown&utm_medium=social&utm_source=intown_fb&fbclid=IwAR2tr968ULEZXeQgiIeESkztoocpv7UvXpymN4xhfgrNk4P3XdoVmg2MzBs)

A third of a billion for a 700 foot long train tunnel at ATL.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 10, 2022, 03:56:49 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 10, 2022, 03:54:46 PM

Hartsfield-Jackson makes headway on extension to speed Plane Train (ajc.com) (https://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-airport-blog/hartsfield-jackson-makes-headway-on-extension-to-speed-plane-train/VOBT3G6XDREAFLXJZPRP3AKMTY/?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot&ecmp=intown&utm_medium=social&utm_source=intown_fb&fbclid=IwAR2tr968ULEZXeQgiIeESkztoocpv7UvXpymN4xhfgrNk4P3XdoVmg2MzBs)

A third of a billion for a 700 foot long train tunnel at ATL.

seems like a waste of money....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 10, 2022, 03:57:26 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 10, 2022, 03:56:49 PM

seems like a waste of money....

Ya THINK??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 10, 2022, 04:03:18 PM

For passengers, that means Plane Trains will arrive faster — every 90 seconds instead of every 108 seconds today.

They built the International Terminal with Federal grants money, largely, back under Obama.  It cost $1.4 billion.  It has 12 gates.  Twelve.

The airport has 195 gates in total.  This added 12.  Yay.  It's pretty easy to find apparent wastes of money around here, some pedestrian bridge downtown cost $35 million or something and is rarely used, was rushed finished for the Super Bowl, and then ...

Then, when it came time for the big game, the bridge, marketed as a link between Vine City and Mercedes-Benz Stadium and downtown, wasn’t even open to public foot traffic (https://atlanta.curbed.com/2019/1/29/18201457/super-bowl-liii-downtown-pedestrian-bridge-streetcar).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 10, 2022, 04:04:47 PM

we just used the Plane Train, and then MARTA.  The MARTA cars were pretty full, which surprised me some.  It was 9 PM.

I'm glad this new tunnel cuts time from 108 to 90 seconds.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 10, 2022, 04:54:04 PM

That is absolutely ridiculous.

And we can't help the homeless I guess. Or maybe they could sleep in the tunnel.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 10, 2022, 05:12:57 PM

Ummm, No.

Poland’s President Andrzej Duda said Friday that “we are also counting on an increase of U.S. presence in our part of Europe” and that he wants the number of NATO troops in each Eastern Flank country to be increased.

NATO's eastern nations want better protection from alliance | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-klaus-iohannis-bulgaria-bucharest-419787bd3b22492102124586393d8892)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 10, 2022, 05:54:27 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 10, 2022, 05:12:57 PM

Ummm, No.

Poland’s President Andrzej Duda said Friday that “we are also counting on an increase of U.S. presence in our part of Europe” and that he wants the number of NATO troops in each Eastern Flank country to be increased.

NATO's eastern nations want better protection from alliance | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-klaus-iohannis-bulgaria-bucharest-419787bd3b22492102124586393d8892)

just reason 1,483,303 why US should've NEVER expanded NATO eastward to include dirty shitbag Eastern European countries.

You want an increase of US presence? Sure, sign massive and exclusive contracts to buy your oil and natural gas only from US energy. Sign massive and exclusive contracts to buy your arms/weapons only from US defense contractors. Sign commitments to buy more US imported products. And last but not least, the US gov't will send you bills and charge you for it's militaries presence and charge you a cost plus maybe say 15-20% for ALL expenses down to toilet paper. 

Agree to all that, then we can talk. Otherwise, f**k off. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 10, 2022, 07:20:26 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 10, 2022, 05:54:27 PM

just reason 1,483,303 why US should've NEVER expanded NATO eastward to include dirty shitbag Eastern European countries.

You want an increase of US presence? Sure, sign massive and exclusive contracts to buy your oil and natural gas only from US energy. Sign massive and exclusive contracts to buy your arms/weapons only from US defense contractors. Sign commitments to buy more US imported products. And last but not least, the US gov't will send you bills and charge you for it's militaries presence and charge you a cost plus maybe say 15-20% for ALL expenses down to toilet paper.

Agree to all that, then we can talk. Otherwise, f**k off.

How Trumpian of you
Good job

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 10, 2022, 07:31:57 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 10, 2022, 07:20:26 PM

How Trumpian of you
Good job

one of my biggest beefs with Trump is he was a phony populist, but he was pretty much dead on the f**king money when it came to foreign policy. this country is run by literal morons and the rest of the world has been fleecing the US for decades.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 10, 2022, 07:59:57 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 10, 2022, 07:31:57 PM

one of my biggest beefs with Trump is he was a phony populist, but he was pretty much dead on the f**king money when it came to foreign policy. this country is run by literal morons and the rest of the world has been fleecing the US for decades.

I think what you call phony populist is really just the fact that Trump is a deal maker.  Its in his blood.  This is what guides him on foreign policy.  Hes very good at knowing when he has the upper hand and never fails to exploit it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 10, 2022, 08:18:05 PM

WASHINGTON (AP) — The prices of gas, food and most other goods and services jumped in May, raising inflation to a new four-decade high and giving American households no respite from rising costs.

Consumer prices surged 8.6% last month from a year earlier, faster than April’s year-over-year increase of 8.3%, the Labor Department said Friday. The new inflation figure, the highest since 1981, will heighten pressure on the Federal Reserve to continue raising interest rates aggressively.

On a month-to-month basis, prices jumped 1% from April to May, much faster than the 0.3% increase from March to April. Contributing to that surge were much higher prices for everything from airline tickets to restaurant meals to new and used cars. Those price spikes also elevated so-called “core” inflation, a measure that excludes volatile food and energy prices. In May, core prices jumped a sharp 0.6% for a second straight month. They’re now 6% above where they were a year ago.

Friday’s report underscored fears that inflation is spreading well beyond energy and goods whose prices are being driven up by clogged supply chains and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. It also sent stock prices tumbling. The increased pressure on the Fed to raises rates even faster — which means higher-cost loans for consumers and businesses — will raise the risk of a recession, too.


_______________________________________________

I graduated HS in 81

things weren't good then either

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 11, 2022, 12:46:53 AM

Good gosh almighty, Steph Curry just had a hell of a game. Don't know if Golden State has enough to take the whole thing, but man is he carrying them. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 11, 2022, 07:56:34 AM

I watched Triple "D" last night

now I want dumplings

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 11, 2022, 08:08:08 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 11, 2022, 07:56:34 AM

I watched Triple "D" last night

now I want dumplings

… like chicken and dumplings or Chinese dumplings?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 11, 2022, 08:10:25 AM

Chinese dumplings

but the others are  very good

never met a bad dumpling

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 11, 2022, 08:19:21 AM

Bend’s Dump City Dumplings

https://centraloregondaily.com/bends-dump-city-dumplings-featured-on-diners-drive-ins-and-dives/ (https://centraloregondaily.com/bends-dump-city-dumplings-featured-on-diners-drive-ins-and-dives/)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxAr0dEsQ8s

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 11, 2022, 08:21:06 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 11, 2022, 07:56:34 AM

I watched Triple "D" last night

now I want dumplings

Same.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 11, 2022, 08:43:21 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 10, 2022, 10:27:14 AM

Much like Bob Dylan, they guy can't sing and never could. But he does and did, and he sucks and sucked at it.

And he's WAY overrated on the guitar too. I could name a hundred that do/did it better. At least.

Okay start,he didn't suck,Harvest was great and Harvest Moon also to name a few. Why don't you start that Great Lake for Iowa,build a damn,do something

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 11, 2022, 08:45:47 AM

Hozer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 11, 2022, 08:49:48 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 10, 2022, 10:38:32 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/exajaNw.jpg)

Speaking of someone who can't sing,put your balls in a vice and you can sing like Geddy Lee - and I like Rush

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 11, 2022, 08:57:56 AM

Being able to carry a tune and hit notes is 95 percent of singing. Geddy could do both.

Voice tone is a matter of taste, and Geddy is not for everyone.

I acknowledge the talent of someone like Celine Dion. Her tone makes my skin crawl. Same with Whitney.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 11, 2022, 09:01:48 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 10, 2022, 10:38:46 AM

Young apparently had success and made a good bit of money doing it.

So, he did some things well apparently.  I understand that while I may dislike some "artist", it doesn't mean they aren't commercial successes.  There is probably a negative correlation there.

Well if Mdot - a voice of truth and reason is screaming it like a cat in a fan belt it must be so

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 11, 2022, 09:05:34 AM

beauty is in the ear of the beholder

I'll be listening to old Bon Scott AC/DC on the golf course today!

Brian Johnson can suck it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 11, 2022, 09:09:16 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 11, 2022, 08:57:56 AM

Being able to carry a tune and hit notes is 95 percent of singing. Geddy could do both.

Voice tone is a matter of taste, and Geddy is not for everyone.

I acknowledge the talent of someone like Celine Dion. Her tone makes my skin crawl. Same with Whitney.

not a fan of either and if i ever hear that swarmy,dreadful,caterwauling theme from TITANIC again I'm gonna keel-hull the slappie who played it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 11, 2022, 09:14:28 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 11, 2022, 09:05:34 AM

beauty is in the ear of the beholder

I'll be listening to old Bon Scott AC/DC on the golf course today!

Brian Johnson can suck it

Well he's still alive so he has that going for him.
When the kids were little did you serenade them to sleep playing AC-DC or Young or Rush?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2022, 09:44:25 AM

There is some "planning" (dreaming) about freeway capping parks hereabouts, and I'm sure elsewhere as well.

Momentum Building for HUB404 – SaportaReport (https://saportareport.com/momentum-building-for-hub404/thought-leadership/buckhead-cid/)

I like the idea a lot, but the price tags start with a B based on some projections, and I think that means little will actually happen.  One can do a lot with a B locally, a third of that could go to the airport to extend the Plane Train 700 feet for example and save 18 seconds.

I think a more modest proposal might happen in some spots, the Fifth Street bridge here was "widened" to make a semi-park etc.  Small green spaces in an urban area add up to a lot in my opinion.

(https://i.imgur.com/tM1HRvm.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2022, 01:35:33 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/UIjf3bU.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2022, 02:01:16 PM

Was strolling about today and thought this photo is sort of "my world" in the 'hood.

(https://i.imgur.com/a2AWMJm.jpg)

I took a number of photos of various construction sites near us, all going like crazy, and more new ones about to start, possibly just in time for a recession.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2022, 02:02:45 PM

This was posted by someone else, I thought it pretty neat:

(https://i.imgur.com/49X8e2o.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 11, 2022, 11:04:04 PM

thunderstorms happen

not much you can do about them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2022, 07:24:29 AM

We get to see weather moving in at times, it's sort of neat I think.  We get tornadoes here on occasion, in four years we have not had to vacate to the basement, yet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 12, 2022, 07:29:36 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 11, 2022, 02:01:16 PM

I took a number of photos of various construction sites near us, all going like crazy, and more new ones about to start, possibly just in time for a recession.

Treasury Secretary says we're not gonna have one.

Of course she also said inflation was temporary.

So I guess we're gonna have a recession?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2022, 07:35:03 AM

The recession is so widely predicted I'm beginning to think we might skirt it, using the technical definition.  I can't quite get there yet of course, but it's a thought.  I think the Fed was too late with the brakes, and now will have to brake much harder than if they started last year when the economy was clearly starting to boom.  I've noted before how travel seems to be booming more than normal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 12, 2022, 10:09:46 AM

have you looked at the market lately

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2022, 10:20:01 AM

I look at the market almost daily.  Basically, it's my "job" to the extent I have one now.

The widely accepted definition of a recession is not based on the stock market of course.  It's dropping because of the Fed, which is a bit odd because it seemed pretty obvious what the Fed would do well ahead of time.  I did a fair bit of selling in January, wish I had done more, but what I kept is in my "long term" basket.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2022, 10:28:48 AM

the S&P is down significantly from the all time high around the first of the year

it's about where is was back in march of 2021 when it was on it's way up

I'm glad I haven't been pulling money out since the first of the year

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 12, 2022, 12:08:09 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 12, 2022, 10:20:01 AM

I look at the market almost daily.  Basically, it's my "job" to the extent I have one now.

The widely accepted definition of a recession is not based on the stock market of course.  It's dropping because of the Fed, which is a bit odd because it seemed pretty obvious what the Fed would do well ahead of time.  I did a fair bit of selling in January, wish I had done more, but what I kept is in my "long term" basket.

youre right the market is dropping because the Fed is going to continue to raise int rates because why

can we say inflation

I knew you could

food shortages, gas prices and several other things Brandon has no idea how to fix or even try

The market wont turn around until we solve these problems

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 12, 2022, 12:10:57 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 12, 2022, 10:28:48 AM

the S&P is down significantly from the all time high around the first of the year

it's about where is was back in march of 2021 when it was on it's way up

I'm glad I haven't been pulling money out since the first of the year

While Im not suggesting anyone should pull out of the market assuming they have sound investments I do think folks should not jump in right now either

we have not seen the worst yet so just hunker down have another beer and wait it out

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2022, 12:42:11 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/0pp0mOU.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2022, 01:38:35 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/tXDiAF0.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/5DhY4ny.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 13, 2022, 10:16:35 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 12, 2022, 12:10:57 PM

While Im not suggesting anyone should pull out of the market assuming they have sound investments I do think folks should not jump in right now either

we have not seen the worst yet so just hunker down have another beer and wait it out

I think we are in for a world of hurt.

ANYWAY

We went to our local haunt yesterday afternoon to catch a band we really like. Smokin' Aces.

Got a burger. $15.95.

When we moved here in 2020, that same burger was $9.95.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 11:14:45 AM

I fear stagflation about as much as anything likely.  I lived through it 1980-1 when I had my first real job.  I was lucky, some of my fellow students got jobs with oil companies in 1980 and got laid off.  And it seemed we would be stuck with it for ever really.  

I don't know how we miss a rather deep long recession here, and how can the Fed respond if it happens?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 13, 2022, 01:03:36 PM

This recession to be didnt just happen

Its being carefully planned

I only hope we can get to the midterms before too much damage is done

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 01:09:38 PM

I think the Fed has much more to do with our economy than politicians, with occasional exceptions.

Congress has passed only a handful of laws so far that would impact the economy very much, two that I can recall.  Changing Congress won't really do much.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 13, 2022, 01:23:38 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 01:09:38 PM

I think the Fed has much more to do with our economy than politicians, with occasional exceptions.

Congress has passed only a handful of laws so far that would impact the economy very much, two that I can recall.  Changing Congress won't really do much.

The midterms will stop Biden from doing a lot more damage and get Pelosi out of Dodge

But youre right we will need a Rep Pres to turn this thing around

and BTW just how many "handful" does it take

obviously not many

Its not only what laws have been passed its also how various agencies go about their business under direction from the top

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 01:28:46 PM

I don't think changing Congress will change much of anything.  Both relevant bills passed with significant bipartisan agreement.

I can't think what else Congress has done that would be damaging to the economy, and those two bills above are just a part of the landscape anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 13, 2022, 01:32:04 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 01:28:46 PM

I don't think changing Congress will change much of anything.  Both relevant bills passed with significant bipartisan agreement.

I can't think what else Congress has done that would be damaging to the economy, and those two bills above are just a part of the landscape anyway.

nope its nobodys fault

it just happened for no reason

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 01:38:11 PM

I think the Fed was at fault, more than anything Congress has done.  The Fed has enormous influence over our economy, largely unnoticed in all the political finger pointings.

Those two bills Congress passed probably has had some effect, especially the first one which was unneeded stimulus.  The next Congress may have to do something similar no matter who holds the reins.

It's more convenient of course just to blame the mean Dems and/or Reps.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 13, 2022, 01:50:04 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 01:38:11 PM

I think the Fed was at fault, more than anything Congress has done.  The Fed has enormous influence over our economy, largely unnoticed in all the political finger pointings.

Those two bills Congress passed probably has had some effect, especially the first one which was unneeded stimulus.  The next Congress may have to do something similar no matter who holds the reins.

It's more convenient of course just to blame the mean Dems and/or Reps.

The gas shortage was caused by Biden's actions and foreign policy ineptness

This shortage has resulted in higher prices at the grocery store which drives inflation

This was all done to drive the green agenda

Higher fuel prices means more EVs sold

This has actually been admitted to several times

This insane approach to Ukraine also affects inflation

Now there is serious talk about paying off student loans

The Reps will solve the fuel shortage thus lowering inflation

I could go on and on but you dont seem to comprehend what is actually happening

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 01:57:21 PM

I don't see how any of that resulted from the actions of Congress.  Ergo, changing Congress won't change any of that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 13, 2022, 02:01:04 PM

It's messaging too guys. It has not been good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 02:20:50 PM

What would a Republican controlled Congress change about any of that?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 13, 2022, 02:30:57 PM

I can think of a few things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 13, 2022, 02:32:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 02:20:50 PM

What would a Republican controlled Congress change about any of that?

They would stop pushing a green agenda

They would help keep Brandon hog tied until the cavalry arrives in 2024

They Jan 6th crap will either stop or become fair with all info coming out

There will be no court packing

The blank check for Ukraine would stop

The WHO would not call the shots in the US

Gun confiscation efforts would stop

Better southern border control over illegal alien entering country

might even impeach Brandon for various unconstitutional actions concerning illegal immigrants

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 13, 2022, 02:34:43 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 01:28:46 PM

I don't think changing Congress will change much of anything.  Both relevant bills passed with significant bipartisan agreement.

I can't think what else Congress has done that would be damaging to the economy, and those two bills above are just a part of the landscape anyway.

Everything I know from my graduate and undergraduate degrees, and 35 years in the world of Finance- would be out the window if your post here had a hint of accuracy to it.  🙈

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 13, 2022, 02:37:50 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 13, 2022, 02:01:04 PM

It's messaging too guys. It has not been good.

The more I look at this, the less I think messaging totally matters.

For a message to hit, an audience has to be some degree of receptive. And in our modern political landscape, there will always be someone peddling a more downcast message for their own benefit.

even if you had perfect messaging (which they do not), someone will always be counter messaging with something that opponents are a lot more receptive to: “they guy you already don’t like is a dunce.”

On the other thing being discussed. Maybe our economics are not an amalgamation of factors that rely on business acumen, innovation and market forces, and instead are primarily a reflection of one party’s seat in power. I guess that’s what it is, which would mean no economic discussion at all in a more politics free environment.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 02:38:04 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 13, 2022, 02:32:53 PM

They would stop pushing a green agenda

They would help keep Brandon hog tied until the cavalry arrives in 2024

They Jan 6th crap will either stop or become fair with all info coming out

There will be no court packing

The blank check for Ukraine would stop

The WHO would not call the shots in the US

Gun confiscation efforts would stop

Better southern border control over illegal alien entering country

might even impeach Brandon for various unconstitutional actions concerning illegal immigrants

None of that would impact inflation, at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 13, 2022, 02:40:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 02:38:04 PM

None of that would impact inflation, at all.

nope this will only happen when a Rep Pres is installed in 2024 but the new congress might help keep Brandon from making it worse

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 02:40:39 PM

I don't think changing Congress is going to accomplish much in terms of the economy.  That's an opinion obviously.  And I don't think what Congress has done to date has had much to do with inflation, other than the stimulus bill (which Trump wanted also).

I think it will mean more "hearings" and investigations, just about different topics.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 13, 2022, 02:47:33 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 13, 2022, 02:37:50 PM

The more I look at this, the less I think messaging totally matters.

For a message to hit, an audience has to be some degree of receptive. And in our modern political landscape, there will always be someone peddling a more downcast message for their own benefit.

even if you had perfect messaging (which they do not), someone will always be counter messaging with something that opponents are a lot more receptive to: “they guy you already don’t like is a dunce.”

On the other thing being discussed. Maybe our economics are not an amalgamation of factors that rely on business acumen, innovation and market forces, and instead are primarily a reflection of one party’s seat in power. I guess that’s what it is, which would mean no economic discussion at all in a more politics free environment.

as time passes the dems messaging gets more and more distant from reality

we had wall to wall coverage the other night of the Jan 6th hearing

The American public was not fooled

Here we sit ass deep in problems and all the dems can come up with is a plan to keep Trump from running in 2024

Its like the message was let em eat cake

The average American doesnt care a wit about what happened a year and a half ago

What they care about is fuel prices and being able to feed their family

the dems have lost their minds

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 13, 2022, 02:53:30 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 02:40:39 PM

I don't think changing Congress is going to accomplish much in terms of the economy.  That's an opinion obviously.  And I don't think what Congress has done to date has had much to do with inflation, other than the stimulus bill (which Trump wanted also).

I think it will mean more "hearings" and investigations, just about different topics.

There were MAJOR differences in what the Parties wanted in the stimulus bill.  Trillions on pork -and major differences on how to spend it.  Major differences who should benefit from Covid relief, and how much.  Trillions spent there. Huge differences on Congress treatment of lockdowns and the effects it has had on supply chain- arguably the second leading cause of inflation. First of course is energy policy- and if I have to explain the screw ups there that lead us to here- then the head in the sand syndrome is too strong to bother.  And there is more.. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 02:58:32 PM

What has Congress done about energy policy over the past term?

Whatever the impact of the Stimulus bill was and is, it's not really reversible, it's done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 13, 2022, 03:08:57 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 13, 2022, 02:47:33 PM

as time passes the dems messaging gets more and more distant from reality

we had wall to wall coverage the other night of the Jan 6th hearing

The American public was not fooled

Here we sit ass deep in problems and all the dems can come up with is a plan to keep Trump from running in 2024

Its like the message was let em eat cake

The average American doesnt care a wit about what happened a year and a half ago

What they care about is fuel prices and being able to feed their family

the dems have lost their minds

So the problem with their messaging was just that set of hearings? That it happened at all?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 13, 2022, 03:11:36 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 02:58:32 PM

What has Congress done about energy policy over the past term?

Whatever the impact of the Stimulus bill was and is, it's not really reversible, it's done.

The damage to our energy output was not done by congress

Its all caused by Brandon and all the agencies under his control plus the fact that his foreign policy abilities are so bad Saudi Arabia wont even take his calls

The act of changing congress has many other benefits which Ive already mentioned

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 03:12:45 PM

I suppose I'm a pessimist.  I don't think a new Congress can do much if anything to help the economy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 13, 2022, 03:19:34 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 13, 2022, 03:08:57 PM

So the problem with their messaging was just that set of hearings? That it happened at all?

Its not the only problem just an example

Nobody condones what happened on Jan 6th but to suggest it was an insurrection is totally ridiculous

The American public is not fooled by this 

The dems are desperate and are down to their last card

November 8th will be cleaning day

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 13, 2022, 03:21:46 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 03:12:45 PM

I suppose I'm a pessimist.  I don't think a new Congress can do much if anything to help the economy.

well everyone is welcome to their opinion 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 13, 2022, 03:24:10 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 02:38:04 PM

None of that would impact inflation, at all.

not exactly true.

A Congress that would've set it's foot down and chopped the balls off of the Biden administration in that administrations' INSANE pursuit to meddle in Ukraine- which let's face it- a country that has been a virtual US colony since the Obama administration implemented a coup in 2014 that unconstitutionally overthrew a democratically elected gov't- and their DELUSIONAL to think they could prop up a corrupt shitbag country and "fight the bad guys, Russia!" and then decide to try to use stupid ass sanctions to economically nuke one of THE most important countries to the world economy and not have it back fire....HILARIOUS. Predictable what is happening now, and that charade is unraveling in Ukraine. Ukraine is getting it's ass f***king kicked in by Russia and it has no shot and never had any shot to stop Russia. Ukraine is literally just going to continue to get destroyed and the Eastern parts are going to get swallowed up by Russia...meanwhile the US/EU economies are in disarray and dealing with record levels of inflation due to their shortsightedness, insanity, and downright insane levels of stupidity and hypocrisy.

BUT....the Repubtards were/are just as gung ho on War in Ukraine and "fighting the bad guys Russia!" as the ShitLibs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 13, 2022, 03:24:41 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 03:12:45 PM

I suppose I'm a pessimist.  I don't think a new Congress can do much if anything to help the economy.

this is probably the truest thing you said. why? both parties are virtually the same- and both parties essentially do nothing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 13, 2022, 03:25:12 PM

the sitting politicians in power - Biden and the Dem controlled house and senate would LOVE to fix the economy as quickly as possible

they all know folks vote with their wallets and a bad economy with inflation will cause them to lose power in the next election

they have motivation, they're just not able to do much about it.  At least in the short term.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 13, 2022, 03:28:01 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 13, 2022, 03:08:57 PM

So the problem with their messaging was just that set of hearings? That it happened at all?

Washington Post congressional reporter Marianna Sotomayor said Sunday during ABC's "This Week" that it could be too late for Democrats on the economy as the midterms approach. 

"In the beginning a lot of Democrats were saying, hey look, the economy, it's doing great, it's the best in, you know record number of years. And people weren't feeling that. People were saying why are you telling me its good when all of these prices are going up?" she mused.

"So you are starting to see Democrats shift the messaging a little bit to talk more about and have that empathy but whether that it is a little too late. But it could be a little too late for a lot of these people that are saying we need help now," she continued. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 13, 2022, 03:28:21 PM

https://ed.ted.com/periodic-videos (https://ed.ted.com/periodic-videos)

A video lesson about every single element on the periodic table.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 13, 2022, 03:36:24 PM

inflation was already a huge problem.....and the US state dept and the Biden administrations complete and utter lack of even making the slightest attempt at diplomacy or making any kind of gesture to take the concerns Russia had with Ukraine/NATO seriously and the Biden administration and Congresses war mongering to "fight the bad guys!" and then their insane economic warfare on Russia....laughingly and predictably backfired. All they did is take inflation which was already a problem....throw gasoline on that fire and take it from maybe a level 6 problem on a scale of 1 to 10 and take it to like level 11.

Russia is the largest exporter of natural gas, wheat (BY FAR the single most important food crop in the world), and fertilizer (you know, that pesky stuff we use to grow FOOD) in the entire world. They are the 2nd largest exporter of crude oil in the world. You know, ACTUAL useful commodities (unlike most of the BULLSH*T services the US produces/exports) that the ENTIRE f***king world needs to you know, LIVE. But yeah, let's just try to erase them from the world economy....that'll go over well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 13, 2022, 03:37:42 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 13, 2022, 03:28:21 PM

https://ed.ted.com/periodic-videos (https://ed.ted.com/periodic-videos)

A video lesson about every single element on the periodic table.

FearlessF University

on line diplomas earned in your spare time

you too can get a FU degree

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 13, 2022, 03:38:03 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 13, 2022, 03:28:01 PM

Washington Post congressional reporter Marianna Sotomayor said Sunday during ABC's "This Week" that it could be too late for Democrats on the economy as the midterms approach.

"In the beginning a lot of Democrats were saying, hey look, the economy, it's doing great, it's the best in, you know record number of years. And people weren't feeling that. People were saying why are you telling me its good when all of these prices are going up?" she mused.

"So you are starting to see Democrats shift the messaging a little bit to talk more about and have that empathy but whether that it is a little too late. But it could be a little too late for a lot of these people that are saying we need help now," she continued.

I mean, that doesn’t feel like it matters. It feels like horse race fluff. Media filler.

The economy is in a bad way. There’s no messaging out of that one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 13, 2022, 03:44:04 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 13, 2022, 03:38:03 PM

I mean, that doesn’t feel like it matters. It feels like horse race fluff. Media filler.

The economy is in a bad way. There’s no messaging out of that one.

nope but would it be better for the dems to have a message that says

Yes the economy has several problems and here are our plans to address them

rather then to ignore it and have wall to wall coverage over Jan 6th or Mathew McConaughey talking about gun laws

now dont get me wrong these are viable subjects but not the ones that Americans care about

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 13, 2022, 03:45:58 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 13, 2022, 03:36:24 PM

Russia is the largest exporter of natural gas, wheat (BY FAR the single most important food crop in the world), and fertilizer (you know, that pesky stuff we use to grow FOOD) in the entire world. They are the 2nd largest exporter of crude oil in the world. You know, ACTUAL useful commodities (unlike most of the BULLSH*T services the US produces/exports) that the ENTIRE f***king world needs to you know, LIVE. But yeah, let's just try to erase them from the world economy....that'll go over well.

Hey Lee Harvey who the hell are you talking to?Last time I checked Russia was trying to erase the people of the Ukraine. So ya attack them.....that'll go over well

Industrial Metals


Ukraine ranks:

• 1st in Europe in proven recoverable uranium ore reserves;
• 2nd in Europe in titanium ore reserves;
• 2nd in the world (12%) in explored reserves of manganese ore reserves;
• 2nd in the world in iron ore reserves;
• 2nd in Europe in mercury ore reserves;
• 3rd in Europe in shale gas reserves;
• 4th in the world by the total value of natural resources;
• 7th in the world in coal reserves;
• 10th in the world in titanium ore reserves;
• 13th in the world in shale gas reserves.

Agriculture

Ukraine is:

• 1st in Europe in arable land area;
• 3rd in the world (25%) in area of black soil;
• 1st in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil;
• • 2nd in the world in barley production;
  • 4th in the world in barley exports;
  • 3rd in the world in production of corn;
  • 4th in the world in corn exports;
  • 7th in the world in soybean production
  • 4th in the world in potato production;
  • 5th in the world in rye production;
  • 5th in the world in beet production;
  • 8th in the world in wheat exports;
  • 9th in the world in production of chicken eggs;
  • 16th in the world in cheese exports and
  • can meet the food needs of 600 million people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 13, 2022, 03:47:22 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 13, 2022, 03:45:58 PM

Hey Lee Harvey who the hell are you talking to?Last time I checked Russia was trying to erase the people of the Ukraine. So ya attack them.....that'll go over well

Industrial Metals


Ukraine ranks:

• 1st in Europe in proven recoverable uranium ore reserves;
• 2nd in Europe in titanium ore reserves;
• 2nd in the world (12%) in explored reserves of manganese ore reserves;
• 2nd in the world in iron ore reserves;
• 2nd in Europe in mercury ore reserves;
• 3rd in Europe in shale gas reserves;
• 4th in the world by the total value of natural resources;
• 7th in the world in coal reserves;
• 10th in the world in titanium ore reserves;
• 13th in the world in shale gas reserves.

Agriculture

Ukraine is:

• 1st in Europe in arable land area;
• 3rd in the world (25%) in area of black soil;
• 1st in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil;
• • 2nd in the world in barley production;
  • 4th in the world in barley exports;
  • 3rd in the world in production of corn;
  • 4th in the world in corn exports;
  • 7th in the world in soybean production
  • 4th in the world in potato production;
  • 5th in the world in rye production;
  • 5th in the world in bee production;
  • 8th in the world in wheat exports;
  • 9th in the world in production of chicken eggs;
  • 16th in the world in cheese exports and
  • can meet the food needs of 600 million people.

I'm going to spell this out real clear for you.... F**K UKRAINE.

I literally do NOT give a flying f**king rats ass about Ukraine. I care about one country and it's people. The United States of America. That's it. And those people are getting CRUSHED with insane fuel, energy, and food prices thanks to inflation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 13, 2022, 03:49:31 PM

Have the men with the nets loosen your ankle monitor.Because world trade and politics is predicated by what you think :D Well you were just blowing smoke about Russia to absolutely no one that I can discern

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 13, 2022, 03:51:38 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 13, 2022, 03:49:31 PM

Have the men with the nets loosen your ankle monitor

(https://y.yarn.co/bc94d9ce-6f8c-4843-9d96-4ed7fec89535_text.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 13, 2022, 03:58:04 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 13, 2022, 03:49:31 PM

Have the men with the nets loosen your ankle monitor.Because world trade and politics is predicated by what you think :D Well you were just blowing smoke about Russia to absolutely no one that I can discern

I do agree with Mdot in that we should put the US first in our priorities

I know this will come as a shock but we are not at war with Russia

Its time to turn Ukraine funding into Southern Border protection

Now having said that Putin is a prick and I hope his time on this earth ends soon

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 13, 2022, 04:02:52 PM

So why was he giving a shit about Russia then who is trampling all over a sovereign nation if he doesn't give a F*** ?
The G** D*** border should never been opened - the Homeland Security should be dissolved immediately and the Department charged with Treason,given a fair trial followed by a first Class hanging

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 13, 2022, 04:04:58 PM

did anyone think this war would last this long?

I know Putin did not think this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 13, 2022, 04:06:52 PM

Biden and the Dems don't like this

S&P 500 tumbles nearly 4% to new low for the year, closes in bear market territory

and I don't think they thought they could cause this problem

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 13, 2022, 04:15:30 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 13, 2022, 04:02:52 PM

So why was he giving a shit about Russia then who is trampling all over a sovereign nation if he doesn't give a F*** ?
The G** D*** border should never been opened - the Homeland Security should be dissolved immediately and the Department charged with Treason,given a fair trial followed by a first Class hanging   cremation.

Fixed.


Much cleaner this way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 13, 2022, 04:16:33 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 13, 2022, 04:06:52 PM

Biden and the Dems don't like this

S&P 500 tumbles nearly 4% to new low for the year, closes in bear market territory

and I don't think they thought they could cause this problem

Hell, does anyone like it?

Fixed your last sentence too. It went too far.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 13, 2022, 04:34:56 PM

It's really a simple question that everyone needs to answer, and answer honestly.

Are you better off today than you were 18 months ago?

******************


I'm a "no" answer on this one, for a few reasons.

My wife's income is fixed, and in reality so it mine as I cannot afford to bump my pay as I have to keep bumping up the staff to keep them. So, we have taken a major pay cut in our world.

Our investments (not the real estate ones) are taking a beating. Net worth is down 20 percent now, from its peak.

We don't feel as safe as we used to, depending of course on where we are.

I have very little confidence in public education, after mostly a lifetime of being a big proponent.

I'm deeply disappointed in the politicization of the Supreme Court.

I'm the least confident in our military since 1980.

******************


If your answer is "no", the next question would then be What can I do to help change this?

If your answer is "yes", then damn, I'm jealous. I have yet to meet one of those. Of course, where I live plays into that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 13, 2022, 04:54:50 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 13, 2022, 04:34:56 PM

I'm deeply disappointed in the politicization of the Supreme Court.

Im going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this isn't an issue you're noting based on the past 18 months.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 13, 2022, 05:01:06 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 13, 2022, 04:15:30 PM

Fixed.


Much cleaner this way.

Gotta hang 'em 1st don'tcha? Then the crematory Right? I can't keep up with all ths new technology

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 13, 2022, 05:03:19 PM

I really don't need any BoD from you or anyone else, but yeah.

About 14 years or so. It's just on hyperdrive right now. What happened last week was unreal to me.

The AG needs to enforce Federal Law here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 13, 2022, 05:03:45 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 13, 2022, 05:01:06 PM

Gotta hang 'em 1st don'tcha? Then the crematory Right? I can't keep up with all ths new technology

Why add the extra step? Just go right to the fire.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 13, 2022, 05:24:27 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 13, 2022, 04:02:52 PM

So why was he giving a shit about Russia then who is trampling all over a sovereign nation if he doesn't give a F*** ?

I don't give a shit about Russia either. I give a shit about what poking that bear has done and about what trying to "punish the bad guys!" through draconian sanctions that DO NOT WORK are having on the problem of inflation in.....THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 13, 2022, 05:29:05 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 13, 2022, 04:04:58 PM

did anyone think this war would last this long?

I know Putin did not think this

No way he thought it would imo. He was overconfident and miscalculated and it's clear as day the Russian military is outdated and sucks....but it's still worlds better than the Ukraine's tiny little Nazi infused shitbag fleabag military. 

But my guess is he ALSO never expected the US/UK/EU/NATO but ESPECIALLY the US to go as full-blown hardcore war mongering proxy war mode and arm/train/support Ukraine to the f**king TEETH.

No way this thing goes on more than a couple weeks, and Ukraine would've been wiped out if they didn't get $55 billion in aid from US (in like THREE MONTHS) and countless more billions from UK/EU. UK alone has pledged around $3.5 billion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 05:42:09 PM

I usually think more along the lines of "Is the country better off today" than me personally.  I probably am better off today personally, to the extent it matters.  Our economy has some positive aspects which often get ignored, for the moment anyway.  It's what appears to be happening that is bad.  I suppose the "good news" is reduced demand for oil will likely reduce prices.

We've had a recession after every oil price shock since 1973.  It's arguably a primary cause of recessions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 06:18:40 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/6myj7IF.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 13, 2022, 06:22:34 PM

no thanks

I can mix my own

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 06:28:15 PM

I chuckled, it's apparently a real thing.  I suppose one might choose that for a picnic or other outing.  I buy some cans of wine for such things at times, one brand is pretty good (Underwood).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 07:01:08 PM

We’re giving kids “climate anxiety” and it’s not necessary - Vox (https://www.vox.com/23158406/climate-change-tell-kids-wont-destroy-world?fbclid=IwAR3jFVQCQE_7JXXM51YcoN3j1Iow7mzyppYgKtiIPgl23f4G22tqIlJmoMw)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 13, 2022, 08:02:45 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 13, 2022, 06:22:34 PM

no thanks

I can mix my own

They’re not gonna sell it strong enough. At least not Fearless strong 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 13, 2022, 08:05:17 PM

yup, 5% for beer is doable, but a whiskey drink????

I think not

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 13, 2022, 08:52:47 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 06:18:40 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/6myj7IF.png)

crown royal makes something like this as well, it's fantastic. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 13, 2022, 09:39:20 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_EEExaBWV0

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 13, 2022, 10:34:12 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 13, 2022, 09:39:20 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_EEExaBWV0

What is wrong with those idiot journalists.  

how dare they tell the truth, use facts and discuss something that most of the MSM will hardly discuss despite being what’s on most people’s minds. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 13, 2022, 11:07:36 PM

The president is responsible for gas prices if you don't like him, he's not if you don't.  Yawn.
Aren't you guys supposed to gain wisdom with age?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 13, 2022, 11:23:40 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 13, 2022, 11:07:36 PM

The president is responsible for gas prices if you don't like him, he's not if you don't.  Yawn.
Aren't you guys supposed to gain wisdom with age? 

it's all Putin's fault, stupid.


https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1268663821998206978?s=20&t=FwvZViE60cEpXaOBIyVKTQ

https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1516752535364812810?s=20&t=eJnkxdatEqosjQrmYbNAyg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2022, 06:46:11 AM

They blame everyone for everything.

No need to mention failed policies that way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 14, 2022, 08:27:12 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 13, 2022, 05:03:45 PM

Why add the extra step? Just go right to the fire.

Well at least use a mallet 1st like this

https://youtu.be/uBxMPqxJGqI?t=24

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 14, 2022, 08:43:36 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 13, 2022, 11:07:36 PM

The president is responsible for gas prices if you don't like him, he's not if you don't.  Yawn.
Aren't you guys supposed to gain wisdom with age? 

https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-shutting-down-line-5-pipeline-send-gas-prices-surging-1646999
In a letter to Biden dated November 4, Ohio General Assembly Bob Latta, a Republican, and 12 other lawmakers urged the president to keep the line running as closing it would only further encourage rising energy bills.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gas-prices-oil-gas-lease-alaska-biden-sale-canceled/

https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/verify/keystone-xl-pipeline-biden-money-gas-florida/77-26eb2bb3-cdd9-4196-9078-26fb43ad216d
The average price of gas hit a three-year low in April of 2020 at just $1.74 a gallon with many people along the First Coast reporting prices closer to $1

You really don't understand how this free enterprise thing works do you ? So regale for us "you guys" more where do you find all of your wonderful wisdom? When the asshole blocks how many avenues for those companies to produce revenue & oil.Ya know the guys who procure,pump,refine & move the stuff.Did "you guys" think they were just going to take those loses sitting down? Two years ago there was a 2 week period that gas here was 1.27 .Trump though an asshole also has some insight into how to run a business and didn't f*** with perfectly well run corporations

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2022, 08:46:44 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 13, 2022, 11:07:36 PM

The president is responsible for gas prices if you don't like him, he's not if you don't.  Yawn.
Aren't you guys supposed to gain wisdom with age? 

So convenient.

Of course, I don't "like" any of them, but that's not as important as liking policies.

(Wisdom)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 14, 2022, 08:49:28 AM

When the economy shuts down, as it did during COVID, demand obviously drops hard, and so do prices.  It's a rough way to get cheap gas obviously.

When the economy heats up, as it did post COVID, demand rises faster than supply, in general, and we're seeing near record high oil prices globally, not just here in the US.

The actions by a President can influence pricing some, but the larger increases are due to increased demand outstripping supply.  US oil production should be at record levels next year unless we hit a recession in the interim, and prices would still be quite high.

Just in general, I think "we" credit and blame Presidents for what happens which often is largely out of their control.  The Fed, in my view, has more influence over the economy except for decisions like going to war etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 14, 2022, 08:55:32 AM

Brandon's or should I say his handlers policies weren't out of their control. And I'm certainly not trying to make Big Oil a victim - they've taken their 30 pieces of silver

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 14, 2022, 08:57:59 AM

A recession will drop oil prices, as usual, just as high oil prices tend to cause recessions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 14, 2022, 09:08:08 AM

How much did Slopppy Joe's editing caused problems for big Oil & NG companies.Quite a bit so they fought back the way they always do sticking it to the common folks to get even. I or anybody else have no illusions that those conglomerates are honorably run. Problem is Slopppy Joe or his son Caligula will never take it on the chin like the rest of us

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 14, 2022, 09:45:53 AM

OPEC+ has far more control over oil prices than Big Oil, they are HUGE Oil, and have spare production capacity at their whim.

I see Joe is going to Pariah Saudia Arabia to plead for more production.  It's well known that middle eastern oil causes no climate damage.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on June 14, 2022, 09:46:41 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 14, 2022, 09:45:53 AM

OPEC+ has far more control over oil prices than Big Oil, they are HUGE Oil, and have spare production capacity at their whim.

I see Joe is going to Pariah Saudia Arabia to plead for more production. It's well known that middle eastern oil causes no climate damage.

Will he play in their golf league?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 14, 2022, 09:53:42 AM

"It seemed the world was divided into good and bad people. The good ones slept better while the bad ones seemed to enjoy the waking hours much more." - Woody Allen

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2022, 09:53:53 AM

Quote from: ELA on June 14, 2022, 09:46:41 AM

Will he play in their golf league?

I think he prefers the LGBTQPGA. Not sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 14, 2022, 10:10:20 AM

Quote from: ELA on June 14, 2022, 09:46:41 AM

Will he play in their golf league?

Tiger should've taken the $1 billion.....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 14, 2022, 10:14:55 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 14, 2022, 08:49:28 AM

When the economy shuts down, as it did during COVID, demand obviously drops hard, and so do prices.  It's a rough way to get cheap gas obviously.

When the economy heats up, as it did post COVID, demand rises faster than supply, in general, and we're seeing near record high oil prices globally, not just here in the US.

The actions by a President can influence pricing some, but the larger increases are due to increased demand outstripping supply.  US oil production should be at record levels next year unless we hit a recession in the interim, and prices would still be quite high.

Just in general, I think "we" credit and blame Presidents for what happens which often is largely out of their control.  The Fed, in my view, has more influence over the economy except for decisions like going to war etc.

Yes, the response to the ScamDemic did drive down demand which did cause the price of fuel to drop. However, coming back from the shutdowns should not have caused the price of fuel to more than double. Gas prices before the ScamDemic were in the $2.30 range. They are now over $5.00. You explanation does not explain that. Bidens need to pander to the far left and bascially declare war on fossil fuels is driving these prices. To suggest otherwise is to ignore reality. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 14, 2022, 10:15:50 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 14, 2022, 09:45:53 AM

OPEC+ has far more control over oil prices than Big Oil, they are HUGE Oil, and have spare production capacity at their whim.

I see Joe is going to Pariah Saudia Arabia to plead for more production. It's well known that middle eastern oil causes no climate damage.

yeah, no shit. which is what I've been saying forever and a day on this board.

And who largely controls OPEC? The Saudis. They are the KING SHIT of OPEC and of the entire world of oil really. 

Which is why a President who can get them to play ball when it comes to oil production/pricing and get them to agree to do what he wants when he wants....is a HUGE F'ING DEAL. Trump got the Saudis to ramp production in 2018, end their price war with Russia, and to also cut back on production in 2020. Last guy had the Saudis wrapped around his little finger. This moron started off on the campaign trail attacking the Saudis and it's leader MbS- and MbS hasn't forgotten- he's made Biden admin pay the price for popping off at the mouth like the senile old retard he is- and in turn he's made the entire US pay the price.

Elections have consequences. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 14, 2022, 10:16:43 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 14, 2022, 09:45:53 AM

OPEC+ has far more control over oil prices than Big Oil, they are HUGE Oil, and have spare production capacity at their whim.

I see Joe is going to Pariah Saudia Arabia to plead for more production. It's well known that middle eastern oil causes no climate damage.

He could more easily pull back his policies that are causing the US producers to curtail their production but that would get him in trouble with the far left. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 14, 2022, 10:19:30 AM

Saudis wouldn't even take Biden's phone calls. Saudi gov't making fun of Biden....literally nothing gets on their airwaves unless the Saudi gov't OKs it.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOhcCPqc4pk

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on June 14, 2022, 10:50:35 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 13, 2022, 04:06:52 PM

Biden and the Dems don't like this

S&P 500 tumbles nearly 4% to new low for the year, closes in bear market territory

and I don't think they thought they could cause this problem

Yesterday was a mess across the board in terms of Economy/Recession(?)/Inflation:

-U.S. 2YR Treasury Yield highest spike since 2007, a signal of recession
-Over $200,000,000,000 lost in the Crypto markets over the weekend, a near-term crash
-Several market indexes settling down in Bear Market Territory (“falling 20% or more from a recent high for a sustained period of time”)
-S&P fell almost 4%, marking its lowest level since March 2021 and bringing its losses from its January record to more than 21%
-Gas topping $5.01/gal nationally ($6.43/gal in California)
-Rumors of a 75-basis-point rate hike by Federal Reserve officials later this week, though critics are declaring “too little, too late” when it comes to Federal response to inflation

Across Fox Business, Bloomberg, and CNBC, most of May was spent squabbling over the technical definition of a recession, whether we’re already in a recession, whether selling-off is a loser’s mentality – all discussions which take place before the collective realization of a recession sets in among experts. Moving into June the experts across these financial networks are now matter-of-factly speaking to an impending recession despite the reluctance of the Treasury Secretary and Federal Reserve Chair to forecast such warnings.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 14, 2022, 11:05:51 AM

we literally are run by the stupidest guys in the room….

https://twitter.com/esaagar/status/1536724077322313728?s=20&t=2WzAvhD_74mNlwFjuQB4xg

https://twitter.com/esaagar/status/1536719369891364866?s=20&t=2WzAvhD_74mNlwFjuQB4xg


ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on June 14, 2022, 11:27:39 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 14, 2022, 08:57:59 AM

A recession will drop oil prices, as usual, just as high oil prices tend to cause recessions.

Yes that is a general trend, but there is always the problem of the government enacting policy (think Keynesian) that cause the demand curve to shift out as a whole from the x-y axis and we get stagflation, a period of rising prices with a recession.  Personally this is my concern with keeping a democrat controlled congress.  More and more stimulus, spending bills and generally wonky policy that just make things worst.  The solution will be rising interest rates to pull back the money supply by the fed and while you will earn more on your money, you money buys less and less. Not looking forward to where things are going. This is going to look real bad compared to the so called "great recession" which much ado about nothing. 

Only good thing for me is I can weather the storm even though I won't like it, but lots of people won't be able.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 14, 2022, 11:38:01 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on June 14, 2022, 11:27:39 AM

This is going to look real bad compared to the so called "great recession" which much ado about nothing.

Disagree with this, and that was not a recession in 2008, it was a full scale depression, and it most certainly wasn’t “much ado about nothing”. That was the perhaps the single largest destruction of world wealth we’ve ever witnessed, and it was perpetrated by out-right legalized fraud/crime by Wall St goons.

That is not what is remotely going on here. And it will not be anywhere near as bad. This will probably look more like the mid to late 70s or early 80s.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 14, 2022, 11:40:09 AM

sAnCtIoNs GoNuH WeRk….derrppp derrrp…dahhhhh….mE TaRdEd…DERRRRP

As Western governments sought to pressure Moscow and many countries scrambled to wean themselves off Russian energy, the volume of Russia’s fuel exports fell 15 percent in May compared with the period before the invasion. But high fuel prices caused by rising global demand have kept money flowing into Moscow’s coffers, the report said, noting that Russia’s export prices were on average 60 percent higher than last year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 14, 2022, 11:45:44 AM

Russia's exports fell 15%

price of gasoline in the US doubles

great math for the oil companies, OPEC, and Russia

plus China gets cheaper oil than the rest of the world

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 14, 2022, 11:51:06 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 14, 2022, 11:45:44 AM

Russia's exports fell 15%

price of gasoline in the US doubles

great math for the oil companies, OPEC, and Russia

plus China gets cheaper oil than the rest of the world

Their sale prices rose 60% though. 

let’s say they were selling 1 mil barrels for a dollar each. Cut that down 15%. Now it’s 850k barrels. But that dollar price is now $1.60. 850k x $1.60 = $1,350,000. 

They printing money now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2022, 12:01:33 PM

2007/8 was this:

Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending - The New York Times (nytimes.com) (https://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/30/business/fannie-mae-eases-credit-to-aid-mortgage-lending.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 14, 2022, 12:28:45 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 14, 2022, 11:51:06 AM

Their sale prices rose 60% though.

let’s say they were selling 1 mil barrels for a dollar each. Cut that down 15%. Now it’s 850k barrels. But that dollar price is now $1.60. 850k x $1.60 = $1,350,000.

They printing money now.

yup, they ALL printing money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 14, 2022, 12:29:03 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2022, 12:01:33 PM

2007/8 was this:

Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending - The New York Times (nytimes.com) (https://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/30/business/fannie-mae-eases-credit-to-aid-mortgage-lending.html)

it's paywalled, can't read. It was a lot of things. Basically full scale deregulation by the gov't via systematically gutting the SEC over the years and the repealing of federal laws like Glass-Steagall - and then Wall St going ape shit with fraud and casino gambling.

Pumping out RECORD amounts of garbage subprime loans- shit like NINA/NINJA loans- a lot of which had adjustable rates- the % all mortgage loans that were adjustable rate mortgages used to be around 5-8% give or take- around that time the number was a staggering 20-25%- and they took all those garbage loans chopped them all up and packaged that crap into CDOs and sold them to investors- but that was AFTER they were paying off the rating agencies to rate the crap as AAA. What turbocharged the destruction were the completely unregulated credit fault swaps- which essentially just acts as an insurance policy to backup the CDOs in case they default. Problem is....in insurance you can only insure what you own. You can't insure my house...but ANYONE could get CDSs to bet against the CDOs. And all the vultures did...and made billions. And some firms were even double dipping....selling the CDOs and then betting against them. The firms selling CDSs were taking record fees and profits up front- not putting any reserves aside to pay out in case there were defaults on the CDOs....that's what literally wiped the largest insurance company on the planet at the time- AIG out.

And of course the Obama administration did absolutely nothing about it. Obama was Wall Streets guy....CitiGroup basically handpicked his first administrations cabinet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2022, 12:34:52 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 14, 2022, 12:29:03 PM

it's paywalled, can't read. 

NYT 1999: Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending (freerepublic.com)


 (https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/2086781/posts)Should be able to read it here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 14, 2022, 12:42:10 PM

Manchin has stopped additional spending bills (BBB).  I doubt he's going to approve anything of that ilk.  A Republican Congress MIGHT pass some legislation but they won't overturn vetos without a lot of Dems on their side.  They can rename post offices and make new national holidays of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 14, 2022, 12:51:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 14, 2022, 12:42:10 PM

Manchin has stopped additional spending bills (BBB).  I doubt he's going to approve anything of that ilk.  A Republican Congress MIGHT pass some legislation but they won't overturn vetos without a lot of Dems on their side.  They can rename post offices and make new national holidays of course.

you have pointed out several times that a rep controlled congress cant do much with a dem pres and you are correct

the reverse is also true

2022 election stops the bleeding

2024 election cures the patient

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 14, 2022, 12:58:19 PM

My point really is that I think "the bleeding" was already stopped.  Congress hasn't done much thus far anyway, aside from the two bills I mentioned (one of which was unneeded and harmful, but it's a done deal).  And even a Republican Congress and President doesn't get much of consequence done either, in my experience, aside from some appointments.

But as I stated, I have little faith in either party.  They talk big and then do little.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 14, 2022, 01:04:26 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 14, 2022, 12:58:19 PM

My point really is that I think "the bleeding" was already stopped.  Congress hasn't done much thus far anyway, aside from the two bills I mentioned (one of which was unneeded and harmful, but it's a done deal).  And even a Republican Congress and President doesn't get much of consequence done either, in my experience, aside from some appointments.

But as I stated, I have little faith in either party.  They talk big and then do little.

Amen to that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 14, 2022, 01:26:47 PM

American Shale Drillers Set To Boost Production In July | OilPrice.com (https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/American-Shale-Drillers-Set-To-Boost-Production-In-July.html?fbclid=IwAR0RU-Om86mQUUJpVuRdNaSBzkqAV3Om54kJ-M6aC1U3iuU0xws-NGJUdHw)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 14, 2022, 05:41:10 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 14, 2022, 01:26:47 PM

American Shale Drillers Set To Boost Production In July | OilPrice.com (https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/American-Shale-Drillers-Set-To-Boost-Production-In-July.html?fbclid=IwAR0RU-Om86mQUUJpVuRdNaSBzkqAV3Om54kJ-M6aC1U3iuU0xws-NGJUdHw)

won't do much. world price doesn't move much based on US production because we use a f**k ton and don't really export much.

US/UK/EU/Australia/South Korea/Japan and all the "west"/US aligned puppet states need to end their economic warfare on Russia and lift every single sanction. US gov't needs to knock this robbing the tax dollars of it's own people merely to give massive corporate welfare checks to Raytheon & Friends via funding a proxy war bullsh*t off and allow the war in Ukraine to end and the world needs to get on with life. And then Biden needs to go back to Saudi Arabia a few more times and try to repair all the damage he's done to that relationship and promptly get on all fours and remove those dentures and suck some Saudi crown prince c**k. Prices will start to fall back to earth almost immediately if these things happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 14, 2022, 05:42:57 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2022, 12:34:52 PM

NYT 1999: Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending (freerepublic.com)


 (https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/2086781/posts)Should be able to read it here.

just read it, it's not really THE cause. played a part...sure. but those other factors mentioned before were much more significant.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 14, 2022, 07:28:42 PM

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/caterpillar-leaves-illinois-decades-relocate-163813033.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGXDcV5kuGZl0QpY_buw8FN4TQoMH4hmfvBPI8lf2VeCRD3e9fujr8M0SkeRPYioy4oe8gfFYuuMbqtXoe_ltI331sc6mvLxXtMp3bUjShiMb2QrecvuAWj1ofvFHAduqJiTrMZpDVL0MmZWBn_vKS8qwWoJcmkrsf47DiSavaQa

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 14, 2022, 08:04:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 14, 2022, 01:26:47 PM

American Shale Drillers Set To Boost Production In July | OilPrice.com (https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/American-Shale-Drillers-Set-To-Boost-Production-In-July.html?fbclid=IwAR0RU-Om86mQUUJpVuRdNaSBzkqAV3Om54kJ-M6aC1U3iuU0xws-NGJUdHw)

It could do some good but it won't because they will point to the world market and just keep taking record profits.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 14, 2022, 08:07:52 PM

A gas station less than a mile away from two others in sewer city is 30 cents cheaper per gallon.


I'd be shocked if the other two couldn't make a very nice profit at 30 cents cheaper

Pretty sure the place I buy gas @ 4.59/gallon is not losing money 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 14, 2022, 09:19:22 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 14, 2022, 08:07:52 PM

A gas station less than a mile away from two others in sewer city is 30 cents cheaper per gallon.


I'd be shocked if the other two couldn't make a very nice profit at 30 cents cheaper

Pretty sure the place I buy gas @ 4.59/gallon is not losing money

none of them make their money selling gas. it's literally peanuts. they make it all on the tobacco, alcohol, and other bullsh*t they sell inside the store.

Whatever place sells the gas cheapest is going to get tons of that business. That's why Wawa typically sells gas cheaper than anyone I know of down this way. And their gas stations are ass slammed busy 24/7 and the business they do inside their stores is flat out insane.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 14, 2022, 09:23:00 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 14, 2022, 07:28:42 PM

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/caterpillar-leaves-illinois-decades-relocate-163813033.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGXDcV5kuGZl0QpY_buw8FN4TQoMH4hmfvBPI8lf2VeCRD3e9fujr8M0SkeRPYioy4oe8gfFYuuMbqtXoe_ltI331sc6mvLxXtMp3bUjShiMb2QrecvuAWj1ofvFHAduqJiTrMZpDVL0MmZWBn_vKS8qwWoJcmkrsf47DiSavaQa

Rust Belt been dying....all COVID and the Democrats who continue to run those states/cities into the ground have done is accelerated the death.

The growth in this country is all in the south/southwest states that are mostly red, business friendly, and have low taxes and less regulation.

Great for Texas, was hoping they'd come to Florida. There is a sh*t ton of cheap ass land in Northern and Central Florida in the center of the state between the coasts and it's a state with a kick ass governor and state legislature that is extremely business friendly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 14, 2022, 09:36:58 PM

The cost of domestic airfare has increased "significantly" over the course of 2022, rising 47% since January, according to recent Adobe Analytics data.

_________________________________________________ ______________________

we could possibly expect a 50% increase in prices because of coming out of COVID and some other factors

Gasoline and diesel jumping 100% is just plain greed and gouging.

_________________________________________________ ______________________

but the real bad news is coming.............


 SIOUX FALLS, S.D. (KELO) — As inflation causes prices to rise and supply chain shortages make products harder to find, another item can be added to the list: Tampons.

Not only are the products harder to find on shelves, but Bloomberg found that the cost of pads is up 8.3% and the cost of tampons is up 9.8%. Procter & Gamble, the maker of Tampax and Always, is expecting prices on period products to rise even more in July due to supply chain issues.

While the current oil crisis may appear separate from the growing tampon shortage, University of South Dakota business professor Tom Martin said they may not be as isolated as they appear.

“They’re not unrelated because our world, our cultures, run off of petroleum,” Martin said. “Whether it’s the fuel that’s moving products or so many things contain plastic and where does plastic come from? Petroleum.”

Martin added that the supply chain crisis can’t be narrowed down to just one issue.

“People didn’t realize how complex a supply chain was, until it didn’t work,” Martin said.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 14, 2022, 09:38:50 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 14, 2022, 09:19:22 PM

none of them make their money selling gas. it's literally peanuts. 

then why be priced 30 cents per gallon higher???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 14, 2022, 09:41:13 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 14, 2022, 09:38:50 PM

then why be priced 30 cents per gallon higher???

some operators buy gas from their suppliers at way better prices than others, and then some giant ones like Wawa probably not only buy gas way cheaper because they buy so much- they aggressively price it to get people in the doors buying sandwiches, tobacco, donuts, coffee, etc., etc..

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 14, 2022, 10:14:18 PM

agrees with my question

if the smart move is to sell gas at no profit to get folks to come inside to purchase the high profit items, why charge 30 cents per gallon more?

I worked at a full service gas station in 1980.  Night shift foreman.  Sold around 3,000 gallons per shift, 2 shifts.  Cheapest gas, cheapest cigarettes in Sewer City,  cashed payroll checks and had credit.  could charge all purchases and pay at the end of the month.

1980, highest gas prices in history, went over 99 cents a gallon for the first time ever.

cigarettes were 60 cents a pack, $7.50 per carton

inflation was at an all-time high

I made $3.15/hour as the shift foreman.

no employee discount on any products or services

life was good, decided to go to college in Lincoln

at that time graduating engineers were making around $30,000/year

a Porche 911 was about $30,000

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 14, 2022, 10:39:59 PM

BEIJING — China released economic data for May that topped muted expectations for a month hampered by Covid controls.

Industrial production rose mildly by 0.7% in May from a year ago, versus an expected 0.7% drop, according to analysts polled by Reuters. In April, industrial production unexpectedly fell, down by 2.9% year-on-year.

Retail sales fell less than expected, down by 6.7% in May from a year ago. Retail sales were estimated to have declined by 7.1% in May from a year ago, according to the Reuters poll. In April, retail sales fell by 11.1% from a year ago.

Fixed asset investment for the January to May period rose by 6.2%, topping expectations of 6% growth.

China’s National Bureau of Statistics said in a statement that the economy “showed a good momentum of recovery” in May, “with negative effects from Covid-19 pandemic gradually overcome and major indicators improved marginally.”

China’s exports accelerated in May to a better-than-expected 16.9% increase from a year ago in U.S. dollar terms. Imports also rose by a greater-than-expected 4.1%.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 15, 2022, 08:06:25 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 14, 2022, 10:14:18 PM

agrees with my question

if the smart move is to sell gas at no profit to get folks to come inside to purchase the high profit items, why charge 30 cents per gallon more?

I worked at a full service gas station in 1980.  Night shift foreman.  Sold around 3,000 gallons per shift, 2 shifts.  Cheapest gas, cheapest cigarettes in Sewer City,  cashed payroll checks and had credit.  could charge all purchases and pay at the end of the month.

1980, highest gas prices in history, went over 99 cents a gallon for the first time ever.

cigarettes were 60 cents a pack, $7.50 per carton

inflation was at an all-time high

I made $3.15/hour as the shift foreman.

no employee discount on any products or services

life was good, decided to go to college in Lincoln

at that time graduating engineers were making around $30,000/year

a Porche 911 was about $30,000

It all depends upon how much they have to pay for to fill their tanks and how much the supplier is projecting the next load will cost. Also, if they don't have much in the way of a retail business in their station and rely primarily on gasoline sales, they have to keep a higher price to continue to make some profit. But I will bet they are not make much money at all even with their prices 30 cents higher. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 15, 2022, 08:06:59 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 14, 2022, 07:28:42 PM

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/caterpillar-leaves-illinois-decades-relocate-163813033.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGXDcV5kuGZl0QpY_buw8FN4TQoMH4hmfvBPI8lf2VeCRD3e9fujr8M0SkeRPYioy4oe8gfFYuuMbqtXoe_ltI331sc6mvLxXtMp3bUjShiMb2QrecvuAWj1ofvFHAduqJiTrMZpDVL0MmZWBn_vKS8qwWoJcmkrsf47DiSavaQa

Not shocking at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 15, 2022, 08:22:13 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 14, 2022, 09:23:00 PM

Rust Belt been dying....all COVID and the Democrats who continue to run those states/cities into the ground have done is accelerated the death.

The growth in this country is all in the south/southwest states that are mostly red, business friendly, and have low taxes and less regulation.

Great for Texas, was hoping they'd come to Florida. There is a sh*t ton of cheap ass land in Northern and Central Florida in the center of the state between the coasts and it's a state with a kick ass governor and state legislature that is extremely business friendly.

It's headquarters moving (and the $). They will still manufacture in Illinois some.

Don't hold your breath on this one, but there is a lot of chatter up North that Walgreens is moving their HQ to Florida. That would be another huge blow to Illinois.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2022, 08:24:33 AM

Moving the HQ usually benefits the upper level managers, not the factory workers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 15, 2022, 08:25:57 AM

some GOOD messaging from the Pres...............

President Joe Biden on Wednesday called on U.S. oil refiners to produce more gasoline and diesel, saying their profits have tripled during a time of war between Russia and Ukraine as Americans struggle with record high prices at the pump.

“The crunch that families are facing deserves immediate action,” Biden wrote in the draft of a letter to oil refiners obtained by The Associated Press. “Your companies need to work with my Administration to bring forward concrete, near-term solutions that address the crisis.”

Gas prices nationwide are averaging roughly $5 a gallon, an economic burden for many Americans and a political threat for the president’s fellow Democrats going into the midterm elections. Broader inflation began to rise last year as the U.S. economy recovered from the coronavirus pandemic, but it accelerated in recent months as energy and food prices climbed after Russia invaded Ukraine in February and disrupted global commodity markets.


The government reported on Friday that consumer prices had jumped 8.6% from a year ago, the worst increase in more than 40 years.

The draft letter notes that gas prices were averaging $4.25 a gallon when oil was last near the current price of $120 a barrel in March. That 75-cent difference in average gas prices in a matter of just a few months reflects both a shortage of refinery capacity and profits that “are currently at their highest levels ever recorded,” the letter states.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2022, 08:30:23 AM

Does he think refineries can just toggle a switch and make more gasoline?  They've been sitting on excess capacity idling?

U.S. Energy Information Administration - EIA - Independent Statistics and Analysis (https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=52718#:~:text=We estimate U.S. refinery inputs,refinery capacity since early 2020.)

In our June 2022 Short-Term Energy Outlook (https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/steo/) (STEO), we forecast that U.S. refinery utilization (https://www.eia.gov/tools/glossary/index.php?id=Refinery#:~:text=Refinery utilization rate%3A Represents the,refining capacity of the units.) will be relatively high this summer in response to strong wholesale prices for petroleum products, such as diesel and gasoline, which have increased more than the price of the crude oil used to make them.
The price difference between the price of crude oil and the wholesale price of a refined petroleum product reflects the value of refining crude oil. This difference, known as the crack spread, can indicate refining margins and profitability. Crack spreads for both diesel and gasoline increased in the first several months of 2022.
Gasoline and diesel prices and crack spreads are well above historical averages in response to several factors including:

• Low inventories for both petroleum products in the United States and globally
• Fuel demand increases to near pre-pandemic levels
• Relatively low refinery production of both fuels compared with pre-pandemic levels
• Reduced petroleum product exports from Russia

In response to these high prices, we expect that refinery utilization will reach a monthly average level of 96% twice this summer, near the upper limits of what refiners can consistently maintain. We expect refinery utilization to average 96% in June, 94% in July, and 96% in August.
We estimate U.S. refinery inputs will average 16.7 million b/d during the second and third quarters of 2022. This average is lower than the 2019 refinery inputs average of 17.3 million b/d despite high utilization rates because of reductions in refinery capacity since early 2020. U.S. refinery capacity (https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/weekly/archive/2021/210630/includes/analysis_print.php) has fallen by almost 1.0 million b/d since early 2020 because several refineries were closed or converted (https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/weekly/archive/2022/220216/includes/analysis_print.php).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 15, 2022, 08:30:32 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 15, 2022, 08:24:33 AM

Moving the HQ usually benefits the upper level managers, not the factory workers.

Hurts the state they are leaving too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 15, 2022, 08:32:38 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 15, 2022, 08:25:57 AM

some GOOD messaging from the Pres...............

Is he gonna have someone find that magic switch to turn everything on?

(spoiler alert: there isn't one)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 15, 2022, 08:35:40 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 15, 2022, 08:30:23 AM

the crack spread, can indicate refining margins and profitability. Crack spreads for both diesel and gasoline increased in the first several months of 2022.
Gasoline and diesel prices and crack spreads are well above historical averages:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 15, 2022, 08:37:01 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 15, 2022, 08:32:38 AM

Is he gonna have someone find that magic switch to turn everything on?

(spoiler alert: there isn't one)

nope, but there's been talk about how messaging can be influential 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 15, 2022, 08:53:19 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 15, 2022, 08:37:01 AM

nope, but there's been talk about how messaging can be influential

I'm sure there are a lot of giddy people out there with this release. Nobody here is fooled.

The handlers know it's not possible. Pure politics and optics.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 15, 2022, 08:56:14 AM

Moving the HQ only helps the shareholders and the CEO who made the big, bold decision. Employees have to move at their own expense or be fired.

All that growth in the SW is going to come to a screeching halt soon for lack of water. And they're not getting it from the Columbia, Upper Mississippi, or Great Lakes basins.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2022, 08:59:50 AM

Generally a company pays for moving costs for employees.  I've been through this a few times with close relatives, including recently.

An HQ will include the CEO of course, but also a number of VPs and directors, generally speaking.  Ours included marketing folks, legal, sales, HR, etc., down to entry level and admins etc.  They all would move, though that HQ won't be moving, ever, I suspect.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 15, 2022, 09:33:17 AM

Yellowstone seems to have plenty of water

unfortunately for Arizona, the water from Montana comes down the Mizzouri river into the mississippi

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 15, 2022, 09:53:27 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on June 15, 2022, 08:56:14 AM

Moving the HQ only helps the shareholders and the CEO who made the big, bold decision. Employees have to move at their own expense or be fired.

All that growth in the SW is going to come to a screeching halt soon for lack of water. And they're not getting it from the Columbia, Upper Mississippi, or Great Lakes basins.

The 250 people in Cat's HQ have all been offered to move, at company expense. The decision is theirs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 15, 2022, 10:07:34 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 15, 2022, 09:53:27 AM

The 250 people in Cat's HQ have all been offered to move, at company expense. The decision is theirs.

My mistake. That seems unusually generous for modern corporate America.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2022, 10:11:40 AM

Moving assistance is pretty standard in my experience in larger companies, even many smaller ones.  It's not a huge expense.  My step son in law just moved from France to San Diego, he's a mid level kind of guy, got a very generous package to move.

At one point I was offered a transfer to Germany, but I couldn't take it because of my kids, but the package was very generous.  Three year assignment.

I didn't have to take that one of course.  I understood from others that anyone could go to Beijing, and a few did, they were really straining for folks to go for some reason.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 15, 2022, 10:13:53 AM

I guess they are a valued team.

One of my friends is a VP there, which is how I know this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 15, 2022, 10:42:09 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 15, 2022, 08:32:38 AM

Is he gonna have someone find that magic switch to turn everything on?

(spoiler alert: there isn't one)

hes trying


https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/biden-threatens-oil-companies-emergency-powers-supply-inflation

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 15, 2022, 10:43:20 AM

I dont trust Brandon at all

I think its just his way of blaming oil companies for his created fuel shortage

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2022, 11:24:48 AM

Biden doesn't seem to understand gasoline pricing.  Refiners don't set it, the market does.  When it's in short supply, the price will go up as more bidders compete for it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 15, 2022, 11:34:58 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 15, 2022, 10:43:20 AM

I dont trust Brandon at all

I think its just his way of blaming oil companies for his created fuel shortage

It's not him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 15, 2022, 11:48:30 AM

That Caterpillar thing is probably rough on the folks who want to stay in state, but such is life. Dallas is a nice area by and large (has its congestion issues, and I’m sure other things like every place).

Probably an annoyance for any folks who had to move when they last changed HQs within the past five years. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2022, 12:33:54 PM

It can be rough on single parents who have a shared agreement with the ex, obviously, as well as others.  I was pretty lucky, though I had one job offer in south Georgia I probably would have taken if I could have moved with my kids.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2022, 01:52:55 PM

Cosmologists find new evidence our universe has an antimatter twin (inverse.com) (https://www.inverse.com/science/antimatter-twin-universe?utm_campaign=inverse&utm_content=1655205300&utm_medium=owned&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2jBNJnIMCuBXWkDQ3G-H1-xZT5CERXrO8OJaB5EvUZAIqsEIwiD9bzW6Q)

We can create matter particles in the lab, but when we do, we also create antimatter particles. They always come in pairs. So when particles formed in the early universe, where did all their antimatter siblings go?

One idea was that the universe itself formed as a pair. Our matter universe and a similar antimatter universe. Problem solved. The idea fell out of favor for various reasons, but this new study looks at how it might solve the Hubble problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2022, 03:34:39 PM

U.S. refining capacity shrinks 4.5% as pandemic shuts plants | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-refining-capacity-shrinks-45-pandemic-shuts-plants-2021-06-25/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 15, 2022, 05:42:26 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 15, 2022, 03:34:39 PM

U.S. refining capacity shrinks 4.5% as pandemic shuts plants | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-refining-capacity-shrinks-45-pandemic-shuts-plants-2021-06-25/)

pandemic has been over for 2 months so what are we doing to get back to full capacity

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2022, 05:47:41 PM

Those refineries closed, or were repurposed.  They don't work any more for gasoline.

I think it's a real shortfall in refining capacity right now, amongst other things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: highVOLtage on June 15, 2022, 06:24:26 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 15, 2022, 05:47:41 PM

Those refineries closed, or were repurposed.  They don't work any more for gasoline.

I think it's a real shortfall in refining capacity right now, amongst other things.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JavierBlas/status/1537152871569006593

"We have been in regular contact with the administration to update the President and his staff on how ExxonMobil has been investing more than any other company to develop U.S. oil and gas supplies. This includes investments in the U.S. of more than $50 billion over the past five years, resulting in an almost 50% increase in our U.S. production of oil during this period.

Globally, we’ve invested double what we’ve earned over the past five years -- $118 billion on new oil and gas supplies compared to net income of $55 billion. This is a reflection of the company’s long-term growth strategy, and our commitment to continuously invest to meet society’s demand for our products.

Specific to refining capacity in the U.S., we’ve been investing through the downturn to increase refining capacity to process U.S. light crude by about 250,000 barrels per day – the equivalent of adding a new medium-sized refinery. We kept investing even during the pandemic, when we lost more than $20 billion and had to borrow more than $30 billion to maintain investment to increase capacity to be ready for post-pandemic demand.

In the short term, the U.S. government could enact measures often used in emergencies following hurricanes or other supply disruptions -- such as waivers of Jones Act provisions and some fuel specifications to increase supplies. Longer term, government can promote investment through clear and consistent policy that supports U.S. resource development, such as regular and predictable lease sales, as well as streamlined regulatory approval and support for infrastructure such as pipelines."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 15, 2022, 10:43:31 PM

slow playing it to make record profits

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 16, 2022, 08:52:19 AM

This is NOT good.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/high-u-s-fuel-exports-are-contributing-to-5-a-gallon-gas-11655371801?st=3pelso35iusg59d&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 16, 2022, 08:57:19 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 16, 2022, 08:52:19 AM

This is NOT good.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/high-u-s-fuel-exports-are-contributing-to-5-a-gallon-gas-11655371801?st=3pelso35iusg59d&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

yeah....it's almost as if trying to get the entire world to ban the #2 exporter of oil in the world (Russia) wouldn't have any negative consequences....oh wait....it would and did.

this line in the article really shows you how stupid politicians truly are...

"while House Republicans this month proposed increasing U.S. oil-and-gas production and exports to help replace Russian energy."

Hey f**kfaces, here's an idea....remove all the dumbass sanctions and stop trying to "replace" Russian energy. Prices will start falling fast and our true mortal enemy and only true peer competitor in the entire world and #1 rival China- will stop getting energy at major discounts. As if we needed to give those f**kers ANOTHER leg up on us.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 16, 2022, 09:04:11 AM

Maybe lets not build a plant like this in areas the might be subject to flooding?

Baby formula production halted at Abbott's Michigan plant due to flooding after severe storms | Fox Business (https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/abbott-baby-formula-production-halted-michigan-plant-storms)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2022, 09:04:46 AM

Both parties will attempt their own brand of political spin on this obviously (as usual).  We all see gas prices every day, so it's a very hot button, not something more theoretical or less evident.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2022, 09:05:19 AM

Dikes would solve that, and maybe a dam or three.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 16, 2022, 09:07:35 AM

it's only a hot button when those prices are rising

if they'd level off for a couple weeks the story would fizzle

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2022, 09:22:02 AM

I don't think so if they level at this level, over $5.  Even if they dropped to $4 it would be an issue, though different folks would blame different folks, as usual.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2022, 09:44:52 AM

Democrats face congressional rout amid historically terrible headwinds | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3525374-democrats-face-congressional-rout-amid-historically-terrible-headwinds/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 16, 2022, 10:08:29 AM

good news

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2022, 10:13:44 AM

Democrats seem unable now to pass much relevant legislation, I doubt Republicans would do much more.  Stalemate.  I'm aware of a gun control kind of bill that could pass the Senate, maybe, the details are being haggled now.  I really don't know what a Republican Congress could get passed and signed that would matter much to the economy.

If we hit a full bore recession, I could see more "stimulus bills" being passed no matter who is in control.  Deficit spending, yay.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2022, 10:35:30 AM

Time for President Biden to push emergency powers reform | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/3525901-time-for-president-biden-to-push-emergency-powers-reform/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 16, 2022, 10:37:39 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 16, 2022, 09:07:35 AM

it's only a hot button when those prices are rising

if they'd level off for a couple weeks the story would fizzle

disagree. it'll be a the biggest hot button topic for your average person until it goes down to under $3/gal. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 16, 2022, 10:38:16 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 16, 2022, 09:44:52 AM

Democrats face congressional rout amid historically terrible headwinds | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3525374-democrats-face-congressional-rout-amid-historically-terrible-headwinds/)

can't come soon enough. both parties royally suck and the Democrats suck just a little bit harder.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 16, 2022, 10:38:35 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 16, 2022, 10:13:44 AM

Democrats seem unable now to pass much relevant legislation, I doubt Republicans would do much more.  Stalemate.  I'm aware of a gun control kind of bill that could pass the Senate, maybe, the details are being haggled now.  I really don't know what a Republican Congress could get passed and signed that would matter much to the economy.

If we hit a full bore recession, I could see more "stimulus bills" being passed no matter who is in control.  Deficit spending, yay.

Replacing crazy Nancy would do a world of good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 16, 2022, 10:43:07 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 16, 2022, 10:38:35 AM

Replacing crazy Nancy would do a world of good

it's not just her, it's all the other geriatric f**ks like her who for some god damn reason refuse to f***king die like Mitch McConnell, Biden, Diane Feinstein, Maxine Waters, Chuck Grassley, and all these other host of dumb old f**king shitbags who won't just f**king die already.

US needs to put age limits in place for office. Can't run for office in the House, Senate, or President after 65. Would be a great way to start actually getting sh*t done and things to change.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2022, 10:44:01 AM

Atlanta, Georgia gets 51.5 inches of rain, on average, per year. Seattle, Washington gets 38 inches of rain, on average, per year. The US average is 38.1 inches of rain per year. Atlanta averages 1.4 inches of snow per year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 16, 2022, 10:53:48 AM

Fed raises rates by 75 basis points. Highest single hike since 1994. Before the recent rate hikes, during the previous two years- your mortgage payment on a 30 year fixed for an $800k property would be equal to that of a payment on a $500k property today.

This will no doubt cool down the housing market. Some markets will still remain hot however. Florida will as people keep moving there in droves, but especially people with money. Texas for example should as well- Wall Street private equity groups like BlackStone and BlackRock bought 1/3rd of all single family homes sold in that state in 2021. BY FAR the highest of any state in the country, I don't think any other state was above 15%. And those vultures pay all cash, close fast, and tend to drive prices up. For some reason though, Texas still seems to have affordable housing in comparison to the other juggernaut states (GDP's of $1+ trillion) like California, Florida, and New York. Not too familiar with the state of Texas or why that is, but it's kinda cool.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 16, 2022, 10:54:11 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 16, 2022, 10:44:01 AM

Atlanta, Georgia gets 51.5 inches of rain, on average, per year. Seattle, Washington gets 38 inches of rain, on average, per year. The US average is 38.1 inches of rain per year. Atlanta averages 1.4 inches of snow per year.

an average head weighs .........

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 16, 2022, 11:00:27 AM

Millennials have endured nothing but f**kery when it comes to the economy. 2008 crash- which was a depression- and the greatest destruction of world wealth in history, then the COVID pandemic and the cratering of the world economy and supply chains. And now with Fed hiking rates and saying they'll probably hike 'em again- there is no doubt there will be a recession soon.

If there has ever been a generation f**ked over more, I'd sure love to see it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 16, 2022, 11:03:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 16, 2022, 10:35:30 AM

Time for President Biden to push emergency powers reform | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/3525901-time-for-president-biden-to-push-emergency-powers-reform/)

he won't do shit. it's obvious the guy is an incompetent who doesn't want to do anything.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 16, 2022, 11:26:46 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 16, 2022, 10:43:07 AM

it's not just her, it's all the other geriatric f**ks like her who for some god damn reason refuse to f***king die like Mitch McConnell, Biden, Diane Feinstein, Maxine Waters, Chuck Grassley, and all these other host of dumb old f**king shitbags who won't just f**king die already.

US needs to put age limits in place for office. Can't run for office in the House, Senate, or President after 65. Would be a great way to start actually getting sh*t done and things to change.

I welcome turnover - in both parties.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2022, 01:09:21 PM

UGA's current 2030 OOC slate:

Aug. 31: vs. Clemson
Sept. 7: vs. North Carolina A&T
Sept. 14: vs. Ohio State
Nov. 30: vs. Georgia Tech

The Texas and Ou series are "under review".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2022, 01:28:59 PM

How the Federal Reserve Could Create a Deep Recession and Deflation - 19FortyFive (https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/06/how-the-federal-reserve-could-create-a-deep-recession-and-deflation/?fbclid=IwAR3jJ0TWaDsAtKJ450A43PLl-IoESyxxjudxyTI7xJkmJ6Qdk1pMOVtDovk)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 16, 2022, 03:36:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 16, 2022, 01:28:59 PM

How the Federal Reserve Could Create a Deep Recession and Deflation - 19FortyFive (https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/06/how-the-federal-reserve-could-create-a-deep-recession-and-deflation/?fbclid=IwAR3jJ0TWaDsAtKJ450A43PLl-IoESyxxjudxyTI7xJkmJ6Qdk1pMOVtDovk)

Biden admin doing a bang up job of trying to create a recession on their own with their sanctions on Russia and continued flows of money to Ukraine to fight a proxy war and try to "punish those bad guys, Russia!". The hypocrisy and stupidity is so astounding it makes me want to f**king vomit. 

Russia is the worlds #1 exporter of natural gas, #1 exporter of fertilizer, #1 exporter of wheat, and #2 exporter of oil. Yeah, let's just try to erase those exports from the entire US/UK/EU economies. That'll totally go over well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 16, 2022, 03:44:37 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 16, 2022, 03:36:58 PM

Biden admin doing a bang up job of trying to create a recession on their own with their sanctions on Russia and continued flows of money to Ukraine to fight a proxy war and try to "punish those bad guys, Russia!". The hypocrisy and stupidity is so astounding it makes me want to f**king vomit.

Russia is the worlds #1 exporter of natural gas, #1 exporter of fertilizer, #1 exporter of wheat, and #2 exporter of oil. Yeah, let's just try to erase those exports from the entire US/UK/EU economies. That'll totally go over well.

I'm thinking he kinda has to keep it flowing.

We know the Ukes have dirt.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 16, 2022, 04:06:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 16, 2022, 03:44:37 PM

I'm thinking he kinda has to keep it flowing.

We know the Ukes have dirt.

Biden just announced an ADDITIONAL $1.2 billion in "humanitarian aid" to Ukraine yesterday for "additional artillery, coastal defenses, advanced rocket systems, and to provide safe drinking water, critical medical supplies and health care, food, shelter, and cash for families to purchase essential items."

Meanwhile the average everyday working people of THIS F**KING COUNTRY are getting crushed by inflation trying to afford gas, health care, food, rent, and essential items like BABY FORMULA....and Flint is still drinking POISON water and not one state or local gov't official in Michigan got in any kind of trouble over the entire Flint poisonous water debacle.

Can't say it loud enough, F**K JOE BIDEN.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 16, 2022, 05:41:22 PM

I honestly believe the CCP has to be paying the Dems to do this.I mean who f*** else with money can or would care to it.They can't be that inept

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 16, 2022, 05:47:09 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 16, 2022, 05:41:22 PM

I honestly believe the CCP has to be paying the Dems to do this.I mean who f*** else with money can or would care to it.They can't be that inept

the dems are so caught up in the belief that Russia cost them the 2016 election they are blind to reality

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 16, 2022, 05:47:28 PM

"Interesting" times we are living in.

Have not checked my investment holdings for a while. Definitely gonna need to work a few more years longer than I wanted to. 

This is now known.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 16, 2022, 05:51:26 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 16, 2022, 05:47:28 PM

"Interesting" times we are living in.

Have not checked my investment holdings for a while. Definitely gonna need to work a few more years longer than I wanted to.

This is now known.

dont give up cause starting with this November we are going to see a big rebound in the market especially if Brandon is impeached

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 16, 2022, 05:52:22 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 16, 2022, 11:26:46 AM

I welcome turnover - in both parties.

https://youtu.be/HCqR0_a6_so?t=47

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 16, 2022, 05:56:49 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLQ7klqYE_4

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 16, 2022, 06:06:32 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fq4H4SAb6s

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 16, 2022, 06:12:10 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 16, 2022, 05:47:28 PM

"Interesting" times we are living in.

Have not checked my investment holdings for a while. Definitely gonna need to work a few more years longer than I wanted to.

This is now known.

just work long enough for the markets to hit another all-time high

might be after the elections, after the 2024 elections, after the Ukraine war is over, could be 6 months, could be 6 years

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 16, 2022, 06:15:55 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 16, 2022, 06:12:10 PM

just work long enough for the markets to hit another all-time high

might be after the elections, after the 2024 elections, after the Ukraine war is over, could be 6 months, could be 6 years

wont take 6 years

as I said recovery will start as soon as we get the A team back in

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 16, 2022, 06:18:58 PM

it might start, but how long will it take?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 16, 2022, 06:31:03 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 16, 2022, 06:18:58 PM

it might start, but how long will it take?

till Nov 2024

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 16, 2022, 06:33:27 PM

not sure I wanna work 2 and a half years

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 16, 2022, 06:35:53 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 16, 2022, 06:33:27 PM

not sure I wanna work 2 and a half years

move to California then

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 16, 2022, 06:42:21 PM

as you know... I'm moving to Texas when I retire

very near a golf course

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 16, 2022, 06:44:55 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 16, 2022, 06:42:21 PM

as you know... I'm moving to Texas when I retire

very near a golf course

How would I have known that

we have a few courses

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 16, 2022, 06:49:15 PM

Mapping the Migration of the World’s Millionaires

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/migration-of-millionaires-worldwide-2022/ (https://www.visualcapitalist.com/migration-of-millionaires-worldwide-2022/)

(https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/millionaire-migration-2022_main.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 16, 2022, 06:50:41 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 16, 2022, 06:44:55 PM

How would I have known that

we have a few courses

I've been saying it for years
mostly warning utee94 that I'm moving in across the street from him or living in his backyard

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 17, 2022, 08:20:41 AM

You could live in his Airstream. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 08:34:55 AM

Is being a millionaire still considered "wealthy"?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 17, 2022, 08:38:07 AM

no

not with this inflation

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 17, 2022, 08:45:29 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 08:34:55 AM

Is being a millionaire still considered "wealthy"?

1 Million? Or 10?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 08:51:22 AM

It used to be a sign of considerable wealth of course "back in the day".  I think now it's closer to middle class wealth for anyone who worked a few decades at a decent job.

And saved.

A millionaire in Costa Rica is probably doing pretty well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 17, 2022, 08:54:30 AM

5-6 Mil is probably the bar now. If you're 60 with that, you will die at 90 with the same amount.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 17, 2022, 09:00:47 AM

maybe

it's a whole new world the past couple years

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 09:07:55 AM

I think if you have $5 mil pretax and have reasonable spending patterns, you are indeed set barring a real meltdown.

If you have $2 mil, you're good if you own your living space, or close to it, and don't have other loans.  A real meltdown would of course hit everyone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 17, 2022, 09:09:48 AM

With 5 Mil at age 60 you could take $250K/year and still have the same money at 90. This assumes around a 6% return on investment.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 17, 2022, 09:11:01 AM

The real question today is whether or not we are headed for a meltdown.

Definitely in a thawing mode now, and it's getting warmer by the day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 09:11:53 AM

After tax monies vs pretax, most of mine is pretax (IRA).

If "they" fiddle with income tax rates I might shift my IRA to a Roth and take the one time hit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 09:12:48 AM

I think recession, but I'm not sure how deep and long.  A recession should cut demand and then prices, but not always.  I lived through 1980-81.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 17, 2022, 09:23:54 AM

I'm concerned about the housing slowdown we are faced with. All of our work is in Wisconsin, Illinois (85%) and Indiana.

If developers start shutting off new subdivision work, we will not be in good shape. It's already slowing down.

The thing I hate the most about owning a company is having to let people go. I fear this is coming, just like in 2008/9. 

We went from 27 people down to 4 (including the two owners) in a matter of months.

Economic policy has consequences. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. This is bad.

We have 42 people, for now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 17, 2022, 09:53:59 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 09:11:53 AM

After tax monies vs pretax, most of mine is pretax (IRA).

If "they" fiddle with income tax rates I might shift my IRA to a Roth and take the one time hit.

since my income was down a bit last year, I converted some IRA to Roth and took a small hit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 17, 2022, 09:56:08 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 17, 2022, 09:09:48 AM

With 5 Mil at age 60 you could take $250K/year and still have the same money at 90. This assumes around a 6% return on investment.

this assumption is what I'm worried about

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 17, 2022, 11:30:02 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 17, 2022, 09:23:54 AM

I'm concerned about the housing slowdown we are faced with. All of our work is in Wisconsin, Illinois (85%) and Indiana.

If developers start shutting off new subdivision work, we will not be in good shape. It's already slowing down.

The thing I hate the most about owning a company is having to let people go. I fear this is coming, just like in 2008/9.

We went from 27 people down to 4 (including the two owners) in a matter of months.

Economic policy has consequences. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. This is bad.

We have 42 people, for now.

Housing will slowdown for sure in those states imo. They are dying states with bad growth- people aren't moving there in droves like they are in say Texas, FL, AZ, NV, NC, SC, GA. Interest rates were already going up on 30 year fixed mortgages, and with the fed hiking fed funds rates .75% just a few days ago and then saying they'll probably do another .50% to .75% hike in July- 30 year fixed rates just going to continue to go up. A monthly payment on a 30 year fixed rate on the rates from the past few years prior to the recent increases on an $800,000 property is equal to the monthly payments on a $500,000 property today.

Personally, I think what they are doing is pretty stupid. The inflation on necessary daily essentials, food, consumer goods, and vital commodities like gas that we're seeing right now is due to a few things- not the housing market and credit card spending.

We're experiencing higher prices because;

a) we still have supply chain issues bc US literally relies entirely on China for almost everything...MAYBE START CHANGING THIS. When there is less supply of something and demand increases...well prices go up. Invoke emergency powers production acts and put the squeeze on manufacturers and suppliers to leave China or give them massive tax breaks to relocate to the US.

b) US refinery capacity is way down- 7 refining facilities closed during COVID and many Gulf refineries were battered by hurricanes in 2020 and 2021- US lost anywhere from 1.2 to 1.5 million barrels per day of refining capacity due to this. US refineries produce 17 million barrels per day. US consumes 20.5 million barrels per day. Maybe declare an emergency and send billions in federal funding to beefing up refineries and building new ones- instead of THROWING MONEY DOWN THE DRAIN IN UKRAINE. OH AND PUT IMMEDIATE TEMPORARY BANS ON EXPORTING US GAS & OIL.

c) lift every and all sanctions on Russia. they have not worked and have only backfired. They've caused prices in the West to skyrocket and turbocharged inflation in the West. And not to mention the Putin treasure chest is at all time highs with Russia getting 60%+ premiums on their oil & gas. You'll see oil prices cool down immediately if they do this.

d) there has been price gouging and large companies taking advantage of the situation. https://www.accountable.us/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/2022-04-04-Largest-US-Retailers-2021-Profits-FINAL.pdf

e) Biden needs to go over to Saudi Arabia get on all fours and suck off MbS until he agrees to ramping up Saudi production and exports to flood the market. I don't care if he's got to give up his first born crack head son to do this- he needs to get it done and make it happen.

Sky high oil prices = inflation. It's basic economics. Oil is literally interwoven into every aspect of modern life. Take a second to think about it. Oil prices go up that much that quick....price of EVERYTHING goes up. Need to get oil prices back down and stable for inflation to cool off. And this senile old f**kface Biden hasn't been doing jackshit to try and make that happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 17, 2022, 11:39:19 AM

New leaked audio of Hunter Biden discussing his influence over daddy Joe. NOTHING TO SEE HERE FOLKS.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFXCpS-HPdE

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 17, 2022, 12:18:27 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 17, 2022, 09:09:48 AM

With 5 Mil at age 60 you could take $250K/year and still have the same money at 90. This assumes around a 6% return on investment.

My question here is are we talking raw cash/reserves or including I guess what I’d call first-house equity?

Like if you have a nice home that appreciated to $1.2 million, that’s a type of wealth, but it’s inaccessible without another large investment.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 17, 2022, 12:20:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 16, 2022, 11:26:46 AM

I welcome turnover - in both parties.

I agree with this … but man the newer crops on both fronts are not impressive. I suppose that opens a lane for someone with reasonable tendnacies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 12:26:25 PM

I'm not sure a politician with "reasonable tendencies" can get and stay elected to Federal office, or at least not gain a position of real influence.  Most House members just vote party line anyway.  So, their votes are basically locked down no matter the issue (with a few exceptions, especially if they have an election pending).

In my view, a radical progressive Senator like say Bernie is not much different from a "moderate" Democrat, on most votes, save Manchin and maybe Sinema.  This is even more true in the House where there is a bit of leeway.  It's largely true for Republicans as well, they line up and vote party line whether they are "reasonable" or not.

The do rename post offices at times.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 17, 2022, 12:53:49 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 17, 2022, 12:20:07 PM

I agree with this … but man the newer crops on both fronts are not impressive. I suppose that opens a lane for someone with reasonable tendnacies.

agree 100%. but I still think they need to put maximum age limits, they already have minimum age limits.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 01:00:31 PM

Age limits, term limits, not happenin'.

Along with a lot of other wishful notions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 17, 2022, 01:01:44 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 12:26:25 PM

I'm not sure a politician with "reasonable tendencies" can get and stay elected to Federal office, or at least not gain a position of real influence.  Most House members just vote party line anyway.  So, their votes are basically locked down no matter the issue (with a few exceptions, especially if they have an election pending).

In my view, a radical progressive Senator like say Bernie is not much different from a "moderate" Democrat, on most votes, save Manchin and maybe Sinema.  This is even more true in the House where there is a bit of leeway.  It's largely true for Republicans as well, they line up and vote party line whether they are "reasonable" or not.

Yup. 100% fact. Radical "progressive" (just laughed outloud) AOC is deathly afraid to go against "Mama Bear" (AOC's own words, not mine...yuck) Pelosi on anything, because she knows Pelosi will just fund someone in a primary to her left to run against her. They are all corrupt. Corruption doesn't have to mean they are taking corporate money to do the bidding of corporations- they are doing the bidding of their own career, their own self-dealing. They figure if they go along with the establishment line of the party they'll get better committee chairs & appointments, book deals, speaking fees, and if they stay in Congress long enough they'll get pensions for life. It's all just about self-dealing and self preservation.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 17, 2022, 01:11:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 01:00:31 PM

Age limits, term limits, not happenin'.

Along with a lot of other wishful notions.

never say never....could happen. not likely any time soon, but doesn't mean it can't or won't in the future.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 17, 2022, 01:23:25 PM

Clinton-ite, neo-liberal ghoul/shitbag extraordinaire and one of the main progenitors of the 2008 crash- Larry Summers- going on CNN/MSNBC saying with a straight face that Jan 6th is contributing to inflation. Jesus H. F**king Christ. I can't even watch the news anymore....shit just drives me crazy. I'm checking out. For real.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 17, 2022, 01:24:37 PM

Julian Assange ordered extradited to US by UK court. Unreal. Scary times. Throw away the 1st amendment why don't we. UK really is America's bitch. They are a truly pathetic nation. They are not sovereign. Their ass is owned by the US. They do whatever the US tells them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 17, 2022, 01:26:39 PM

US magically adds another $45 billion to the Pentagon budget....bc: Ukraine and inflation. LMAO.

$847 billion now. This is more than 3x the next biggest spender in the world, and more than the next 12 countries combined.

America, f**k yeah!

Comin' again to save the motherf**kin' day, yeah
America (F**k yeah!)
Freedom is the only way, yeah

Terrorist your game is through
'Cause now you have to answer to
America (F**k yeah!)
So lick my butt and suck on my balls
America (F**k yeah!)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 01:27:07 PM

Why is this a First Amendment issue?

He's in jail now anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 17, 2022, 01:28:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 01:27:07 PM

Why is this a First Amendment issue?

He's in jail now anyway.

you REALY don't pay attention to jackshit do you? 

he's being prosecuted by the US all for the crime of practicing journalism. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 01:32:20 PM

WikiLeaks Founder Julian Assange Charged in 18-Count Superseding Indictment | OPA | Department of Justice (https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-charged-18-count-superseding-indictment)

He was charged legally by a grand jury with criminally obtaining classified material.  To me, that isn't "journalism" of the common sort.  It sounds like a crime, to me, if he's  guilty.  He's going to appeal the extradition and stay in British prison a while longer, instead of US prison.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 17, 2022, 01:59:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 01:32:20 PM

WikiLeaks Founder Julian Assange Charged in 18-Count Superseding Indictment | OPA | Department of Justice (https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-charged-18-count-superseding-indictment)

He was charged legally by a grand jury with criminally obtaining classified material.  To me, that isn't "journalism" of the common sort.  It sounds like a crime, to me, if he's  guilty.  He's going to appeal the extradition and stay in British prison a while longer, instead of US prison.

I actually read the 18 count superseding indictment. Did you? It's complete and utter bullsh*t. Paper tissue thin that falls apart at the seams when you examine it. It's clear as day to me by your comments, that when it comes to current events as usual, you have no clue what you're talking about.

WikiLeaks WAS and is a publisher and Julian was and is a journalist- the first amendment does not classify what is or isn't a publisher or journalist...ANYONE can practice journalism or publishing...you don't need a license or special classification. Literally ANYONE can practice journalism or publishing.

Furthermore WikiLeaks did NOT criminally obtain anything. Bradley Manning- who had a top secret security clearance- used his clearance to search through classified documents on US military databases- downloaded 750,000+ classified documents over 5 months and then gave WikiLeaks all the documents & footage- which WikiLeaks published on US war crimes related to torture and collateral murders in Iraq & Afghanistan, & Guantanamo Bay. WHICH by the way....New York Times and Washington Post ALSO published much of this material. Where are the indictments on them for "unauthorized disclosure of national defense information" ?

The indictment is charging Assange with collaborating with Manning. With zero evidence behind that charge. It's a bullsh*t conspiracy charge which they could never prove. They are claiming in their indictment that Assange was part of a conspiracy simply because Assange told Manning "curious eyes never run dry" when Manning said that's all the documents he could find. HOLD THE F***KING PHONES! A JOURNALIST ENCOURAGED A SOURCE TO GET MORE DOCS! NO F***KING WAY.

DoJ claimed Assange agreed to help Manning crack a password. That is an obvious lie. The DoJ knows that is a lie. They know that's a lie because they clarify their claim in the indictment later. Manning had top secret clearance...Manning ALREADY had access to all the documents he stole. What Assange and Manning were trying to crack is a password HASH...which would've given anonymous access to Manning to keep looking for evidence of US war crimes. Cracking that password hash wouldn't have given Manning any extra access to find more classified documents....he already had a top secret clearance and ALREADY had complete access to all the documents he stole. The DoJ ADMITS this in their own indictment.

Count 1 tries to charge him with "intent to willfully communicate documents that relate to the national defense" - ie PUBLISHING. Counts 9-17 return to...PUBLISHING. The crime? "Unauthorized disclosure of national defense information" - the New York Times or WaPost will commit that crime multiple times TODAY. That's TEN COUNTS directly tied to publishing...you know THE FIRST F***KING AMENDMENT.

Oh yeah, not to mention- the FEDs star witness to backup the claim Assange tried to help hack a password hash that would help Manning stay annonymous- Siggi Thordarson- has completely recanted his testimony and admits he lied and committed perjury and fabricated aspects of his testimony Assange.

Wake up. Pay attention.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 02:01:01 PM

Well, I guess he'll prevail at trial then.

I'm not really that interested obviously.  I'm going to  take a nap now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 17, 2022, 02:02:07 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 17, 2022, 01:23:25 PM

Clinton-ite, neo-liberal ghoul/shitbag extraordinaire and one of the main progenitors of the 2008 crash- Larry Summers- going on CNN/MSNBC saying with a straight face that Jan 6th is contributing to inflation. Jesus H. F**king Christ. I can't even watch the news anymore....shit just drives me crazy. I'm checking out. For real.

I predict you will not check out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 17, 2022, 02:04:06 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 02:01:01 PM

Well, I guess he'll prevail at trial then.

I'm not really that interested obviously.  I'm going to  take a nap now.

he's being charged under the f**king espionage act....an absolute assault on the first amendment. dude will have no shot at trial...he's going to be thrown in a cage for the rest of his life. And the warning shot has been sent to any ACTUAL REAL publisher or journalist....if you actually do your job and embarrass the US gov't......we will destroy you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 17, 2022, 07:27:43 PM

Iowans are getting back to work! Our unemployment rate is down to 2.7% - the lowest since March of 2020!

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/288799741_579229890236506_4901157190901923839_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s600x600&_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=I8tFzHwboWYAX_ChT1s&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9ydfTFTVR30XV0JHx06FEAtN2N3HQDS01PhE3zi0k-dA&oe=62B2C509)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 17, 2022, 07:52:52 PM

Shhhhh, can't share good news under the current presidency.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 17, 2022, 08:09:08 PM

republican governor is taking credit for this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 17, 2022, 08:12:40 PM

Friday night football!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CFL

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 17, 2022, 08:14:46 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 17, 2022, 09:09:48 AM

With 5 Mil at age 60 you could take $250K/year and still have the same money at 90. This assumes around a 6% return on investment.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/282548167_5206923132719648_6916284118856449095_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=UGwwefYIR_wAX9cr7Tq&tn=_MnT8OkIfzNoswba&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_f313CEZsmvPZMsMRap6pWntOGhmAAP_WMimej1oYFDw&oe=62B24F7B)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 17, 2022, 09:08:29 PM

Im trying to time it so that I take my last breath just as Im putting my last $20 on the bar

My kids love me for that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 17, 2022, 09:32:47 PM

might need a $50 for that last ice cold bottle of lone star if the inflation keeps up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 17, 2022, 10:37:18 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 17, 2022, 07:52:52 PM

Shhhhh, can't share good news under the current presidency. 

Lmfao…what good news is there?

how is Iowa having a low unemployment rate related to anything the Biden administration has done? This would moreso be a reflection on that particular states leadership.

You’re going out of your way and making real leaps to pat team blue on the back there.

Unemployment #’s are rigged and pretty much meaningless. It’s not a true metric, it is complete and utter bullsh*t.

Things like actual wages, the inflation rate, and the CPI are far more important than some dumbass rigged unemployment # ever could be. Current presidency is falling flat on its f**king face there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 17, 2022, 11:10:20 PM

You sure do type a lot to basically say "nuh uh!"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 18, 2022, 12:13:56 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 17, 2022, 09:08:29 PM

Im trying to time it so that I take my last breath just as Im putting my last $20 on the bar

My kids love me for that

Bobby Layne the old Lions QB said it - I want to run out of money and breath at the same time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 18, 2022, 02:20:57 AM

Government statistics we don't like are considered to be faked.

Even if they all come from the same source.  Apparently now unemployment is faked but CPI is not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 18, 2022, 08:06:55 AM

many times unemployment is reported as the number of folks applying for benefits.  not the actual number of folks not working

lies, damned lies, and statistics

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on June 18, 2022, 08:26:07 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 18, 2022, 12:13:56 AM

Bobby Layne the old Lions QB said it - I want to run out of money and breath at the same time

His TD:INT numbers are kind of bonkers.  Granted he was usually drunk during games

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 18, 2022, 08:58:04 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 17, 2022, 07:52:52 PM

Shhhhh, can't share good news under the current presidency. 

As if... he even knows.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2022, 02:33:27 PM

Quote from: ELA on June 18, 2022, 08:26:07 AM

His TD:INT numbers are kind of bonkers.  Granted he was usually drunk during games

crazy that the Lions were an NFL powerhouse in the 1950's with Bobby Layne, they trade him and then he cursed the Lions after the trade and that shit came true. Lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 18, 2022, 05:17:43 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 18, 2022, 08:06:55 AM

many times unemployment is reported as the number of folks applying for benefits.  not the actual number of folks not working

lies, damned lies, and statistics

I look at trends more than absolute numbers figuring they use the same methdology over time, with occasional adjustments, which are announced.  The employment number of course is important and has lagged of late.  I know some folks claimed the numbers were fudged under Obama, but then they thought they were all OK under Trump.

Much of this becomes partisans instead of dispassionate.

GDP grew very rapidly last year also, until last quarter.  It was up in the 5% range after the recovery bounce, a figure which likely will result in shortages and inflation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on June 18, 2022, 05:43:27 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 17, 2022, 08:14:46 PM

[img width=361.81 height=540 alt=May be an image of 1 person and text that says 'My retirement plan 年！ 器年 欢图年 器年氣']https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/282548167_5206923132719648_6916284118856449095_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=UGwwefYIR_wAX9cr7Tq&tn=_MnT8OkIfzNoswba&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_f313CEZsmvPZMsMRap6pWntOGhmAAP_WMimej1oYFDw&oe=62B24F7B[/img]

Just be careful on a bike at that age.  Don't Biden it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 20, 2022, 02:40:48 AM

Gee, I wonder why I made that Herschel Walker thread.  
.
This is one of those times "I told you so" doesn't quite cut it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2022, 07:32:35 AM

It was fairly pleasant here yesterday, we had lunch outside down the street, midweek is going to be very hot apparently.

I'm a bit surprised how many houses have been demolished in the residential area north of us, and replaced with brand new homes that look to be in the $2+ million range.  A lot of the old houses date from a century ago and many are huge, but the smaller ones get bought and often torn down.  The smaller ones must cost a million plus, for the land.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 20, 2022, 08:38:10 AM

the June heat wave continues here - sending it East to Ohio then Boston

golf tournaments for work, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday

traveling today and Wednesday

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2022, 09:03:59 AM

I don't watch any network TV, not news, not shows, nothing.  My wife watches some Hallmark stuff and local news, that's about it.  I've noticed a LOT of political hit commercials lately, which is not a shock.  Some PAC entity puts on an entirely negative commercial about a candidate.  They say nothing about the one they appear to support.

My "rule" would be that no ad could mention the name of a political opponent.  Maybe that's a free speech violation, but it would be nice.  A negative ad would have to mention "my opponent wants to kill puppies", instead of the name.

My guess is that has zero chance of happening of course.  I despise negative ads.  That is one reason we end up with such poor choices so often, I think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Abba on June 20, 2022, 09:25:03 AM

Unfortunately these ads attacking the other candidate are much more effective than the ones supporting your candidate.  Human nature and all that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2022, 09:26:23 AM

Yup. These ads are so dark and negative I'm not sure they are effective.  They aren't on me anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on June 20, 2022, 09:27:05 AM

Thoughts on the housing market?

Mine couldn’t be more generic:

With so many homes selling at steeply increased price tags these past 1 or 2 years, the risk is those recent homebuyers keeping up with costlier mortgages. A number won’t, b/c when the whole market has to pay $450k for every property that was only $315k only 4 years ago, there will inevitably be a percentage that do not keep up.

As for the suddenly cooling housing market, the demand seems spooked buy a 1) potential recession the 2) Federal Interest rates increasing 0.75 last week; the former speculative for now, but the latter being a tangible filter against more of the masses qualifying for a mortgage.

With housing demand cooling possibly faster than expected, a few scant price markdowns are already appearing on Zillow/Redfin listings across Arizona and Southern California, something that even 2 months ago was unfathomable.

(https://i.imgur.com/4H1OOCS.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2022, 09:36:51 AM

My daughter sold her house in Columbus, OH for her move.  She told me her asking price was $199,000 and her second offer was $240,000, and she closed on that one.

She's now renting in Vancouver, BC.  The problem with renting is rent increases, but I suspect she sold near the peak.  We have two units active right now in our building out of 124 units.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 20, 2022, 10:42:00 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/Ls80aAk.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2022, 11:32:16 AM

Who was President in 2016?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2022, 01:16:34 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/ZdBbKrq.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2022, 01:46:50 PM

'When I Was Your Age, Gas Was $2.00 A Gallon' 

Says Guy To His Buddy Who's 1 Year Younger Than Him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2022, 01:56:55 PM

Pac-12 commissioner George Kliavkoff: Football scheduling among Alliance schools not moving at preferred pace (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/Pac-12-commissioner-George-Kliavkoff-Football-scheduling-among-Alliance-schools-not-moving-at-preferred-pace-188982665/?fbclid=IwAR0-tsTSVSrTznwYGgNR_-RFDASNugr0D9k9vszQfRLbSoGS_aTHlBBheZY)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 20, 2022, 02:25:02 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2022, 01:16:34 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/ZdBbKrq.png)

thought I posted that link to that article I believe Washington Post did- Russian Ruble has been the strongest, best performing currency in the entire world this year. 

US sanctions NEVER work. They ALWAYS have the direct opposite effect the retards who put them in place intended for. Not gonna say I told you so...but I F**KING TOLD YA SO. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 20, 2022, 02:41:22 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/WEKNrza.png)
pretty sure the average American couldn't lie down in that or fit thru the door for that matter

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2022, 03:19:04 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 20, 2022, 09:03:59 AM

I don't watch any network TV, not news, not shows, nothing.  My wife watches some Hallmark stuff and local news, that's about it.  I've noticed a LOT of political hit commercials lately, which is not a shock.  Some PAC entity puts on an entirely negative commercial about a candidate.  They say nothing about the one they appear to support.

My "rule" would be that no ad could mention the name of a political opponent.  Maybe that's a free speech violation, but it would be nice.  A negative ad would have to mention "my opponent wants to kill puppies", instead of the name.

My guess is that has zero chance of happening of course.  I despise negative ads.  That is one reason we end up with such poor choices so often, I think.

I don’t think you need to worry about people who just purchased houses keeping up with rising rates. Damn near 100% of them got a 30 year fixed rate so their payments won’t be going up.

And yes there is a positive two rates going up. I read that 20% of home sellers had to lower their price in the last 30 days. For many years now that’s been 0%

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2022, 03:52:24 PM

We did a 10 year recently, but I plan to pay it off then as I'll be 65.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 20, 2022, 10:13:08 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 20, 2022, 02:40:48 AM

Gee, I wonder why I made that Herschel Walker thread. 
.
This is one of those times "I told you so" doesn't quite cut it.

what huge transgression has been uncovered

give us a clue

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 21, 2022, 12:15:19 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2022, 03:19:04 PM

I don’t think you need to worry about people who just purchased houses keeping up with rising rates. Damn near 100% of them got a 30 year fixed rate so their payments won’t be going up.

And yes there is a positive two rates going up. I read that 20% of home sellers had to lower their price in the last 30 days. For many years now that’s been 0%

True on the second part. I’ve been looking here and there, just a bloodbath of a sellers market.


Also a traditional way to combat inflation. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 21, 2022, 12:20:07 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 20, 2022, 10:13:08 PM

what huge transgression has been uncovered

give us a clue

It's just ethical stuff as a direct hypocrisy of his message, nothing major.  Do you really not know?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 21, 2022, 02:02:28 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 21, 2022, 12:20:07 AM

It's just ethical stuff as a direct hypocrisy of his message, nothing major.  Do you really not know?

Your post kinda suggested that something about him has just been revealed which brought on the I told you so

Whats new with him

has something new been discovered that was not known

if not then your post is meaningless 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 21, 2022, 04:47:36 AM

It's like you need to be spoon-fed your mushed peas, with airplane noises.

GOGGLE IT.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2022, 06:31:41 AM

Goggle?

I typed that in and some swimming site came up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2022, 07:47:08 AM

Buckle up. It's gonna be a rough ride.

US Economy Will Stall by Late 2023 and 2024 Won't Be Much Better: BofA (businessinsider.com) (https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/economy-outlook-gdp-growth-2023-2024-recession-risk-inflation-fed-2022-6)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2022, 08:40:38 AM

In my experience, various and sundry make predictions about the future economy and they can't all be right, one may be right by accident of course.  I've never seen a recession this widely predicted.  Some of course think we might land softly.  I think the Fed waited too late.  We had very high GDP growth all last year and they did nothing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2022, 08:53:05 AM

The Fed definitely dropped the ball here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 21, 2022, 08:58:08 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 21, 2022, 02:02:28 AM

Your post kinda suggested that something about him has just been revealed which brought on the I told you so

Whats new with him

has something new been discovered that was not known

if not then your post is meaningless

One of Walker's cornerstones is that all of society's ills are the fault of absentee fathers. Last week, it was discovered that Walker is an absentee father (https://www.thedailybeast.com/herschel-walker-says-hes-a-model-dad-he-has-a-secret-son?ref=home) of another child that was not known, in addition to two more that he just acknowledged.

Based on the current crop of Republican candidates, flagrant hypocrisy is a requirement, not a crippling liability.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2022, 09:14:09 AM

Hypocrisy seems to be a trait common to most politicians.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2022, 09:18:31 AM

I did a 5 year ARM when we bought this place, and a year and a half later refinanced to a ten at a lower rate, didn't hit the bottom but did OK.  I should have it paid off well before ten years comes around.

My first loan on our house in Cincy was at 12.5%, and I thought that was a deal.  I refi'd that as well several times and eventually paid it off with a credit line as rates were dropping very fast and then paid that off.  That was a nice feeling, I didn't have any loans for 20 years or so until we bought this condo.  A 2 bedroom here is under contract for $860 K, they usually sell for around $500 K.  This one was updated quite a bit, but it's on the lowest floor.  I'm not sure what's going on with that really.  

One bad thing about appreciation is the tax man usually catches up with it.  I already get dinged pretty hard on that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2022, 09:27:37 AM

My property taxes went DOWN last year. That has never happened to me in my life.

The value of this home has shot up like I've never seen too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 21, 2022, 09:32:19 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 21, 2022, 04:47:36 AM

It's like you need to be spoon-fed your mushed peas, with airplane noises.

GOGGLE IT.

I did and found nothing new

He will win by at least 20 points so I guess you have nothing new

just jibber jabber

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNmVy-FnAJ8

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2022, 09:32:56 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 21, 2022, 09:14:09 AM

Hypocrisy seems to be a trait common to most politicians.

Of course it is.


Gas For Me But Not For Thee: Obama To Install Massive Propane Tanks In New England Mansion | The Daily Caller (https://dailycaller.com/2022/06/15/gas-former-president-obama-propane-tank-marthas-vineyard-mansion/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2022, 09:35:19 AM

Current polls show Walker tied with Warnock, I doubt he wins by 20 points, or anything close to that.  He might edge Warnock, or not, I don't know of course.

I noted before how many negative ads are showing up now on our TV, even during the ball game.  I may ask my wife not to watch the news when I'm around.

Local news is so predictable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 21, 2022, 09:46:55 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on June 21, 2022, 08:58:08 AM

One of Walker's cornerstones is that all of society's ills are the fault of absentee fathers. Last week, it was discovered that Walker is an absentee father (https://www.thedailybeast.com/herschel-walker-says-hes-a-model-dad-he-has-a-secret-son?ref=home) of another child that was not known, in addition to two more that he just acknowledged.

Based on the current crop of Republican candidates, flagrant hypocrisy is a requirement, not a crippling liability.

He has paid support for all 4 children and when asked has always acknowledged them

The fact that he has four children has been known for years contrary to what some media outlets have reported

There is nothing new here

This is just a failed attempt to bring him down in the voters eyes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 21, 2022, 09:47:50 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 21, 2022, 09:35:19 AM

Current polls show Walker tied with Warnock, I doubt he wins by 20 points, or anything close to that.  He might edge Warnock, or not, I don't know of course.

I noted before how many negative ads are showing up now on our TV, even during the ball game.  I may ask my wife not to watch the news when I'm around.

Local news is so predictable.

The polls are way wrong

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2022, 09:54:19 AM

Polls are very rarely "way wrong", especially when one looks at a variety of different polls.  In my experience, they are pretty good overall.

I see this as a close race, I have no data to suggest otherwise.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 21, 2022, 10:00:31 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 21, 2022, 09:54:19 AM

Polls are very rarely "way wrong", especially when one looks at a variety of different polls.  In my experience, they are pretty good overall.

I see this as a close race, I have no data to suggest otherwise. 

The polls underestimated GOP in 2016, 2018, 2020 and they are doing it again for the midterms

Some folks just never learn

you can take most of the polls and would have to add 2 to 4 points to the GOP candidate to see the real picture

No walker wont win by 20 pts but he will win by 4 to 8 pts

it wont even be close

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2022, 10:13:38 AM

I personally think polls collectively are pretty good, with a few exceptions usually caused by a very late shift, or poor polling techniques.  It also is worth noting that the margin for error is usually 3-5% as stated in polls.  I really do not think they are off by 8 points, that miss is very very rare.

I think this one will be very close, probably within 2% either way unless something major changes by November (which is very possible, Walker is not used to answering questions in a political spotlight).  We'll see more polls of course and perhaps will be able to spot a trend in them.

RealClearPolitics - Election 2022 - Georgia Senate - Walker vs. Warnock (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2022/senate/ga/georgia-senate-walker-vs-warnock-7329.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 21, 2022, 10:22:19 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 21, 2022, 09:14:09 AM

Hypocrisy seems to be a trait common to most politicians.

Amen brother. 

Joe Burden ran on:

- “I will take responsibility and not pass the buck”.  He has blamed everything on someone or something else.  Everything. 

-“ I will be a moderate, not progressive. “
  This is too humorous to even react to.

-my personal favorite- “ I will be a uniter,  not a divider”.
Everything that moron spews is extremely divisive.  He can’t speak in any topic without insulting the 75 million people who did not vote for him.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 21, 2022, 10:26:22 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 21, 2022, 10:13:38 AM

I personally think polls collectively are pretty good, with a few exceptions usually caused by a very late shift, or poor polling techniques.  It also is worth noting that the margin for error is usually 3-5% as stated in polls.  I really do not think they are off by 8 points, that miss is very very rare.

I think this one will be very close, probably within 2% either way unless something major changes by November (which is very possible, Walker is not used to answering questions in a political spotlight).  We'll see more polls of course and perhaps will be able to spot a trend in them.

RealClearPolitics - Election 2022 - Georgia Senate - Walker vs. Warnock (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2022/senate/ga/georgia-senate-walker-vs-warnock-7329.html)

The problem is not that polls are off

Its that they are mostly off in one direction

your 2% either way comment is just ignoring reality

as far as answering questions is concerned we have a Pres now that wont even attempt to answer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2022, 10:29:53 AM

I often track polls in key races pretty closely, and in my experience, they are close to the final result with some exceptions that show no political bias.  But that is my experience of course.  They get more sketchy at times with poor polling operations that appear and disappear, and when not enough polling is done in a locality to pick up late swings.  The major polls stay in business only because they provide useful data, if they didn't folks would ignore them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 21, 2022, 10:41:48 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 21, 2022, 10:29:53 AM

I often track polls in key races pretty closely, and in my experience, they are close to the final result with some exceptions that show no political bias.  But that is my experience of course.  They get more sketchy at times with poor polling operations that appear and disappear, and when not enough polling is done in a locality to pick up late swings.  The major polls stay in business only because they provide useful data, if they didn't folks would ignore them.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/07/19/2020-election-polls-were-the-least-accurate-in-decades-mostly-for-underestimating-trump-report-finds/?sh=4fc44e256318

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2022, 10:43:02 AM

Sure, that group was "least accurate in decades", I'm not talking about one set of polling data.

These errors of “unusual magnitude” resulted in the worst performance of national polls in 40 years; state polls were their least accurate in 20 years (as far back as records go). 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 21, 2022, 10:50:27 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 21, 2022, 10:43:02 AM

Sure, that group was "least accurate in decades", I'm not talking about one set of polling data.

These errors of “unusual magnitude” resulted in the worst performance of national polls in 40 years; state polls were their least accurate in 20 years (as far back as records go).

ok look at 2016 same story


https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/why-2016-election-polls-missed-their-mark/


for whatever reason polls favor the dems from 2 to 4 points when compared to actual results

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 21, 2022, 10:55:48 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2022, 09:27:37 AM

My property taxes went DOWN last year. That has never happened to me in my life.

The value of this home has shot up like I've never seen too.

I'll contact the County Treasure's Dept. for an updated assessment i know the guilt must be killing you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 21, 2022, 11:09:29 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 21, 2022, 10:50:27 AM

ok look at 2016 same story


https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/why-2016-election-polls-missed-their-mark/


for whatever reason polls favor the dems from 2 to 4 points when compared to actual results

The weirdest part about the polling experience is the time element. You run polls basically all year, which often give different numbers, and then at the end, people compare all of them tot he final outcome.

If things swing six points in the next poll, then the last one will be stripped of meaning.

(I’d be interested if we ever get a sense for what adjustment isn’t being made. The theories presented in that piece are interesting. I feel like we had a discussion here at one point when folks were excited that they’d fibbed to pollsters, so perhaps that’s an element to consider)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 21, 2022, 11:43:47 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 21, 2022, 11:09:29 AM

The weirdest part about the polling experience is the time element. You run polls basically all year, which often give different numbers, and then at the end, people compare all of them tot he final outcome.

If things swing six points in the next poll, then the last one will be stripped of meaning.

(I’d be interested if we ever get a sense for what adjustment isn’t being made. The theories presented in that piece are interesting. I feel like we had a discussion here at one point when folks were excited that they’d fibbed to pollsters, so perhaps that’s an element to consider)

The reasons given for the outcome are many

Again its not that they were of but that most were off favoring the dems

Im assuming that any analysis of poll accuracy looks at the polls at the time of the election

Im not saying this is on purpose as there may be valid reasons why the dems are favored inaccurately 

Im only saying this is not new and has been repeated for many past elections

This year is no different as I believe the polls favor the dems by 2 to 4 points from what the actual will turn out to be

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2022, 11:55:06 AM

I despise polls.

Main reason?

They cause many people to simply stay home, thinking their candidate has no chance.

Voter suppression, in a way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2022, 11:55:45 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 21, 2022, 10:55:48 AM

I'll contact the County Treasure's Dept. for an updated assessment i know the guilt must be killing you

It's makeup for being raped in Illinois for 33 years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 21, 2022, 12:01:16 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2022, 11:55:06 AM

I despise polls.

Main reason?

They cause many people to simply stay home, thinking their candidate has no chance.

Voter suppression, in a way.

thats one of the many reasons given for polling inaccuracy 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 21, 2022, 12:04:23 PM

Ive been polls several times in the past

in fact so many times that I started playing games with them

one time Im a white supremist the next time Im a give money to the poor dem my pronouns are he, his and him

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2022, 12:38:13 PM

I don't despite polls, I factor them into my information set.  That they are occasionally off a bit is news because it's rare, and there is that MOE thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 21, 2022, 05:07:55 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2022, 11:55:06 AM

I despise polls.

Main reason?

They cause many people to simply stay home, thinking their candidate has no chance.

Voter suppression, in a way.

Polls are fine to me.  But I'll forever be astounded that presidential results are released in the east before polling closes out west.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 21, 2022, 05:11:10 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 21, 2022, 10:22:19 AM

Amen brother. 

Joe Burden ran on:



-“ I will be a moderate, not progressive. “
  This is too humorous to even react to.

Well he saw how a moderate democrat was treated by republicans for 8 years, right up close.  Same shit, no matter what he'd do.  
.
It's sort of a "ha-ha" for both sides:  the left thought Bush was bad/incompetent.....until Trump showed up.
The right thought Obama was bad...until Biden won.  
.
You all deserve each other.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2022, 05:22:04 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 21, 2022, 05:07:55 PM

Polls are fine to me.  But I'll forever be astounded that presidential results are released in the east before polling closes out west. 

Basically, any early release is going to confirm what was already known, NY state goes Dem, Alabama goes Rep, some states are too early to call.  It's unusual for there to much new information before the polls close except maybe Hawaii/Alaska.  Close elections go well into morning, and perhaps for days, and not close elections, well, they aren't close, it didn't matter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 21, 2022, 05:24:00 PM

You're advocating for releasing outcomes before everyone has voted.  Can we do that for all elections? 
Shit, why even hold presidential elections in Alabama and NY?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2022, 05:28:27 PM

Many states are foregone conclusions before the election, and they get decided quickly, and the "news" is fully expected.  Releasing said news doesn't impact anything.

This is known.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 21, 2022, 05:34:57 PM

But it's not static, friend. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2022, 05:38:22 PM

Few things are static in life, some may appear to be.  Entropy is winning, and will win.  The End.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 21, 2022, 05:50:41 PM

.....so you agree with me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2022, 05:57:14 PM

I don't have any problem with results being announced in the East before polls close in Hawaii.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 21, 2022, 06:06:31 PM

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT49yOwq8AOZ62IEjcGpD26_pgIcREZlJ5c3Q&usqp=CAU)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 21, 2022, 06:09:40 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 21, 2022, 11:43:47 AM

The reasons given for the outcome are many

Again its not that they were of but that most were off favoring the dems

Im assuming that any analysis of poll accuracy looks at the polls at the time of the election

Im not saying this is on purpose as there may be valid reasons why the dems are favored inaccurately

Im only saying this is not new and has been repeated for many past elections

This year is no different as I believe the polls favor the dems by 2 to 4 points from what the actual will turn out to be

Yes. I’m aware that you don’t care about the why. I however remain interested.

I suppose they might need more adjustments for folks who enjoy lying to pollsters.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 21, 2022, 06:15:25 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2022, 11:55:06 AM

I despise polls.

Main reason?

They cause many people to simply stay home, thinking their candidate has no chance.

Voter suppression, in a way.

That’s an interesting view. It’s interesting because of course if you think your candidate has it in the bag, you might well get the same thing (and people often have).

One thing I do like is that polls seem like they’ve dipped considerably in perceived importance across the past five years. It’s not because we understand how to interpret the data much better (as you said, the “no chance” misnomer), but they are less front of mind in the discourse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 21, 2022, 06:15:41 PM

or perhaps the polls shouldn't be biased

left leaning.    like the media and polling organizations

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 21, 2022, 06:17:07 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 21, 2022, 06:15:25 PM

One thing I do like is that polls seem like they’ve dipped considerably in perceived importance across the past five years. It’s not because we understand how to interpret the data much better (as you said, the “no chance” misnomer), but they are less front of mind in the discourse.

because many folks believe less and less of what is reported by the media

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2022, 06:18:10 PM

I used to be involved at times with "polling".  It was product evaluation, really, I'd be on the fringes, but I'd see the questionaires ahead of time, and the results.  One statistican, a fellow I liked a lot, told me about 10% of any rep group is checking boxes at random, or intentionally misrepresenating their experiences.  They could usually cull the former with questions asked different ways, they'd get contradictory responses and probably delete the response.  The others would be included if they were consistent.

Good polling is really a science and rather involved, and of course getting a true sample of the population is a challenge.  I went back and looked at various polls in GA statewide elections and the final polls were all very close to the final outcome, without a point or two.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2022, 06:19:05 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 21, 2022, 06:17:07 PM

because many folks believe less and less of what is reported by the media

I disagree, I think what folks believe is what they WANT to believe, and they will find a news outlet that tells them that, confirmation bias.  They don't believe anything contrary of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 21, 2022, 06:26:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 21, 2022, 06:19:05 PM

I disagree, I think what folks believe is what they WANT to believe, and they will find a news outlet that tells them that, confirmation bias.  They don't believe anything contrary of course.

course its also possible people tend to shy away from outlets that have been wrong a lot too

I think over time folks have an develop an internal feeling of whats right and whats wrong

a listing of values sort of that when they find an outlet that matches these internal rules to live by they will tend to tune them in more often

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 21, 2022, 07:34:52 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 21, 2022, 06:26:03 PM

course its also possible people tend to shy away from outlets that have been wrong a lot too

I think over time folks have an develop an internal feeling of whats right and whats wrong

a listing of values sort of that when they find an outlet that matches these internal rules to live by they will tend to tune them in more often

This is both oddly over charitable and kinda def contradictory.

It also somewhat reverses most peoples’ interaction with media.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 21, 2022, 08:12:20 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 21, 2022, 07:34:52 PM

This is both oddly over charitable and kinda def contradictory.

It also somewhat reverses most peoples’ interaction with media.

Those are fancy words

Now tell us what you mean

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 21, 2022, 10:21:55 PM

Why is there a big Creighton University building in downtown Phoenix?  Have I asked this already?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 21, 2022, 10:47:52 PM

Creighton is the state’s only Catholic-based school for higher learning in medicine.

“Creighton is known for producing health professionals committed to the Jesuit value of caring for the whole patient—mind, body and spirit. Our graduates then go on to careers in which service for and with others is central to their practices,” noted Todero,

“We’re training to care about people. It’s not a job, it’s a vocation, and we really believe it’s a ministry – the ministry of Jesus Christ to care for others and their needs,” said Fr. Kevin Dilworth, SJ, chaplain of Creighton’s Phoenix regional campus, at the September 2019 event.


“I’m so grateful to God for this Catholic University coming to be part of the city of Phoenix and the state of Arizona,” Bishop Thomas J. Olmsted told the gathering that day. “We trust the Jesus who came not only to heal souls and bring redemption but also to heal bodies is very near with us today.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 21, 2022, 11:05:32 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/4bgQoC2.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 22, 2022, 01:43:28 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 21, 2022, 05:11:10 PM

Well he saw how a moderate democrat was treated by republicans for 8 years, right up close.  Same shit, no matter what he'd do. 
.
It's sort of a "ha-ha" for both sides:  the left thought Bush was bad/incompetent.....until Trump showed up.
The right thought Obama was bad...until Biden won. 
.
You all deserve each other.

I think Joe Biden and progressive don't belong in the same sentence. I respect HB a lot, but think he's off there insinuating that Biden is any kind of a progressive. He's not.

Obama was basically a Republican. His healthcare plan was basically a nationwide rip off of a plan thought up by the Heritage Foundation (a Republican think tank) and implemented in the state of Massachusetts by a Republican governor (Mitt Romney and RomneyCare). Obama was a tool of Wall Street- he raised more money from Wall Street than any candidate in history and his first cabinet was basically hand-picked by Citibank. Obama was also a massive schill for the intelligence/military industrial complex. He expanded the security state and spying apparatus to levels Bush II could only wet dream of. Obama also went after more journalists and whistleblowers than every President before him combined. WikiLeaks released a leaked white paper written by the CIA in 2009 or 2010 I want to say- about how Obama was basically a god send for the CIA in terms of messaging and selling US wars of empire around the world. Read it a long time ago. But I'll find it and link the document if you care to read it.

Bush II was bad/incompetent, and it's kind of a joke to me for you to even begin to compare Trump to him and insinuate that Trump was actually worse or more incompetent. He wasn't. Trump was INFINITELY better than Bush II by any objective measure. It's not even close, really.

Trump was actually great for this country in that he put an ugly face on the empire. He actually told the truth about US empire at times and showed it for what it was. That's probably why the stenographers and propagandists in the media hated him so much.

Obama was pretty bad. But I'd take him any day over Biden. Biden is one of the worst Presidents in US history. You can put him right up there with Jimmy Carter and Bush II. Complete f***king disaster.

US absolutely deserves what it gets- because it has one of the dumbest and most propagandized populations on planet earth and the people won't actually band together to change things. We'll just go on playing Team Blue v. Team Red forever and buying all the bullsh*t WWE-like political theater.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 22, 2022, 02:51:17 AM

W was made fun of for being a doofus.  Trump is a stupid person.  He doesn't read.  He doesn't listen.  He is unreasonable.  Selfish.  Unethical.  No, I don't think he'd score over 90 on an IQ test.  No, I don't think he'd piss on a kid that was on fire that wasn't his own, and even then, it's only a maybe.  I honestly don't care in what twisted ways someone wants to compliment his presidency.
.
He's a garbage human being in every conceivable way.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2022, 07:52:28 AM

I have not been impressed with any of our leaders for ... a long time.  They promise a lot and when they get in office actually very little of consequence gets passed legislatively.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2022, 08:05:29 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 21, 2022, 05:11:10 PM

Well he saw how a moderate democrat was treated by republicans for 8 years, right up close.  Same shit, no matter what he'd do. 
.
It's sort of a "ha-ha" for both sides:  the left thought Bush was bad/incompetent.....until Trump showed up.
The right thought Obama was bad...until Biden won. 
.
You all deserve each other.

Obama was bad, and still is, in his third term.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2022, 08:06:34 AM

Russia and NATO member Lithuania are clashing over Kaliningrad (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/22/russia-and-nato-member-lithuania-are-clashing-over-kaliningrad.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2022, 08:08:50 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 22, 2022, 01:43:28 AM

I think Joe Biden and progressive don't belong in the same sentence. I respect HB a lot, but think he's off there insinuating that Biden is any kind of a progressive. He's not.

Obama was basically a Republican. His healthcare plan was basically a nationwide rip off of a plan thought up by the Heritage Foundation (a Republican think tank) and implemented in the state of Massachusetts by a Republican governor (Mitt Romney and RomneyCare). Obama was a tool of Wall Street- he raised more money from Wall Street than any candidate in history and his first cabinet was basically hand-picked by Citibank. Obama was also a massive schill for the intelligence/military industrial complex. He expanded the security state and spying apparatus to levels Bush II could only wet dream of. Obama also went after more journalists and whistleblowers than every President before him combined. WikiLeaks released a leaked white paper written by the CIA in 2009 or 2010 I want to say- about how Obama was basically a god send for the CIA in terms of messaging and selling US wars of empire around the world. Read it a long time ago. But I'll find it and link the document if you care to read it.

Bush II was bad/incompetent, and it's kind of a joke to me for you to even begin to compare Trump to him and insinuate that Trump was actually worse or more incompetent. He wasn't. Trump was INFINITELY better than Bush II by any objective measure. It's not even close, really.

Trump was actually great for this country in that he put an ugly face on the empire. He actually told the truth about US empire at times and showed it for what it was. That's probably why the stenographers and propagandists in the media hated him so much.

Obama was pretty bad. But I'd take him any day over Biden. Biden is one of the worst Presidents in US history. You can put him right up there with Jimmy Carter and Bush II. Complete f***king disaster.

US absolutely deserves what it gets- because it has one of the dumbest and most propagandized populations on planet earth and the people won't actually band together to change things. We'll just go on playing Team Blue v. Team Red forever and buying all the bullsh*t WWE-like political theater.

You still have Obama. He's behind the curtain. 

90% of the people in the current "administration" worked for Obama. The house is not clean.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 22, 2022, 08:09:20 AM

Creighton University is building a new health sciences campus in Phoenix is welcome news not only to patients but the profession and those who plan a career in medicine.

“The need for health care workers in the Southwest was already well-documented before the pandemic hit,” stated Catherine Todero, Ph.D., vice provost of Health Sciences Campuses for Creighton and dean of the College of Nursing, in an email. “Many professions are experiencing major retirement cycles, and the stress of COVID-19 may accelerate that phenomenon. Creighton’s new campus will provide much-needed capacity for health care education for the entire Southwest area,” Todero continued.

Founded by Jesuits in 1878, Creighton is one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities in the United States today and is attended by more than 8,000 students, according to its website.


_________________________________________________ __________________

if a religious group helps in some way the health care services where there is a growing need, no one should have a problem with that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 22, 2022, 08:10:35 AM

don't bitch

it could be Hillary behind the curtain

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2022, 08:13:30 AM

I think Obama is pretty much enjoying his retirement, with the occasional adoring fan showing up, and very occasional speech for hire.  

If one lists the major pieces of actual legislation he or any of the recents got done, it's not much.  I know they have influence otherwise, but legislation is lasting.  The reviled Bush tax cuts largely survived Obama with a modest change at the top, and the Trump tax cuts are still extant.  Such things are pretty easy to change because you can use reconciliation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2022, 08:16:07 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 22, 2022, 08:06:34 AM

Russia and NATO member Lithuania are clashing over Kaliningrad (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/22/russia-and-nato-member-lithuania-are-clashing-over-kaliningrad.html)

Great...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2022, 08:17:47 AM

I was wondering how much of St. Pete's economy was based on tourism, probably a fair bit, and now it's near zero.  That probably hurts the little guy some.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 22, 2022, 09:16:32 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2022, 08:08:50 AM

You still have Obama. He's behind the curtain.

90% of the people in the current "administration" worked for Obama. The house is not clean.

Correct that's why I'm not buying he was a tool/puppet of the right.They wouldn't allowed the border to be opened wide,why destroy the cash cow? Perhaps considerations because that is what politicians do hedge their bets.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2022, 01:15:11 PM

College football schedule 2022: Ranking the 10 best non-conference games (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/LongFormArticle/College-football-schedule-2022-Ranking-the-10-best-non-conference-games-189027524/#189027524_3)

1.  ND @ OSU  No brainer I think.
2.  Oregon UGA Quite a bit down from 1
3.  Bama @ Texas
4.  Miami @ A&M  (?)
5.  Cincy @ Arky
6.  Utah @ Florida (I'd have this higher because it looks competitive)
7.  ND @ USC (also might be higher later in year)
8.  OU @ Nebbie (higher)
9.  Clemson @ ND (should be higher I think)
10.  PSU @ Auburn

I think I'd bump the games that appear to be competitive and drop some that appear not to be.  ND in the Show.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 22, 2022, 01:57:34 PM

Wisconsin Gov. Tony Evers has signed an emergency order prohibiting “price gouging of gasoline and diesel.”

The current national average price of gasoline is about $4.97. Wisconsin’s average is about $4.83 per gallon.

The order prohibits price gouging until Dec. 1, 2022. Consumers can report price gouging to the Wisconsin Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection’s (DATCP) Bureau of Consumer Protection at datcp.wi.gov or by calling the Consumer Protection Hotline at (800) 422-7128.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2022, 01:59:47 PM

How would I recognize price gouging?  I suspect they will get a flood of such reports.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 22, 2022, 02:07:47 PM

As I observed earlier.  30 cents a gallon difference between stations a half mile away

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2022, 02:15:27 PM

I routinely see a 40-50 cent difference between stations on the freeway and those a mile or so away.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2022, 02:46:25 PM

Total can of worms and will only hurt the little guy (station owner) and won't do jack to the big guys.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 22, 2022, 02:52:58 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 22, 2022, 08:09:20 AM

_________________________________________________ __________________

if a religious group helps in some way the health care services where there is a growing need, no one should have a problem with that

None of the good religion provides is dependent upon the religion itself.  You know, you could just do good for the sake of doing good.  That's what religious people don't seem to get.
It's more pious to be good without the promise of reward or threat of consequence.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2022, 04:07:11 PM

Enough with the religion shit already. We've asked to not go there on this board, many times.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 22, 2022, 04:27:58 PM

I asked about a building.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2022, 04:45:35 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 22, 2022, 02:52:58 PM

None of the good religion provides is dependent upon the religion itself.  You know, you could just do good for the sake of doing good.  That's what religious people don't seem to get.
It's more pious to be good without the promise of reward or threat of consequence.

Yeah, and then you puke this up. Just stop.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 22, 2022, 05:13:53 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2022, 08:16:07 AM

Great...

right. AWESOME idea to keep expanding NATO east and let little fleabag nothing countries into NATO.....:043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 22, 2022, 06:14:56 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2022, 04:45:35 PM

Yeah, and then you puke this up. Just stop.

Any corrections for me?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 22, 2022, 06:15:34 PM

The water level at Lake Meade is below the level the Hoover Dam can create power. 
A guy in a 42 foot boat had an engine stall and a few days later before help came, it was beached due to water level drop.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2022, 07:19:18 PM

Avoid calling another poster names.  Period.

Avoid posts relating to religion.

In this thread, politics are OK, which is an exception.  We've mostly handled it so far, that could change.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 22, 2022, 09:48:12 PM

The Inaugural Coach of the Year Award goes to Generals Head Coach, Mike Riley! 🎖🏆

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/289781046_173257521834558_5316062380504216578_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s640x640&_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=zSulEW_mfq8AX8zA-AV&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9smh5lx7B74EfiZqIbxGSkx_FuPXy1oi6zFgZBd0xgVw&oe=62B8E8D3)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 22, 2022, 09:54:13 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2022, 02:46:25 PM

Total can of worms and will only hurt the little guy (station owner) and won't do jack to the big guys.

little guys won't get hurt if they're not allowed to charge 50 cents more than others
the question is asked, "what's your profit margin???"

if your answer is legit, it's all good
as for the oil companies that own the refineries.............  nationally there should be a helluva investigation before a gas tax holiday

same as the little guy... the question is asked about profit margin...... answer the question

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 22, 2022, 09:58:32 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 22, 2022, 02:52:58 PM

None of the good religion provides is dependent upon the religion itself.  

fine, then don't get your panties in a bunch
a group of folks with a set of beliefs wants to do some good for health care in the area....

don't look a gift horse in the mouth

why do you need to bring their beliefs into the conversation?

especially if you believe your own statement above
if it's not dependent - why mention it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 23, 2022, 07:04:25 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 22, 2022, 09:54:13 PM

little guys won't get hurt if they're not allowed to charge 50 cents more than others
the question is asked, "what's your profit margin???"

if your answer is legit, it's all good
as for the oil companies that own the refineries.............  nationally there should be a helluva investigation before a gas tax holiday

same as the little guy... the question is asked about profit margin...... answer the question

It's a can of worms because of all of that.

So, the guy at the interchange is charging $0.50 more per gallon than the guy a half mile down? He is alleged to be gouging. But, his rent is 5 times more than the other guy.

And the government has time to investigate all of this? Government gonna hire a bunch more bean counters to audit every gas station?

There is a reason that clown is referred to as "worst Governor Evers" by Wisconsinites.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2022, 08:28:04 AM

Refineries are working at max capacity now.  Pricing for gasoline is set on the Board of Trade, in an auction, it's in short supply so ......

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 23, 2022, 08:32:13 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 22, 2022, 09:58:32 PM

fine, then don't get your panties in a bunch
a group of folks with a set of beliefs wants to do some good for health care in the area....

don't look a gift horse in the mouth

why do you need to bring their beliefs into the conversation?

especially if you believe your own statement above
if it's not dependent - why mention it?

I didn't. 
I asked about a building and then I posted a meme that included no religious words.  THEN your post started a conversation about religion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 23, 2022, 08:34:51 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 22, 2022, 08:09:20 AM

_________________________________________________ __________________

if a religious group helps in some way the health care services where there is a growing need, no one should have a problem with that

See?
I had moved on.  Then you posted this.
Stop pretending that my disagreement = initiating it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 23, 2022, 08:42:51 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 23, 2022, 08:28:04 AM

Refineries are working at max capacity now.  Pricing for gasoline is set on the Board of Trade, in an auction, it's in short supply so ......

(https://i.imgur.com/yUX6gbv.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2022, 08:46:10 AM

I find the notion oil companies are somehow generating excess profits NOW but they didn't a couple years ago interesting.  What changed?  They all went bad on us?

Or did the GLOBAL supply and demand situation get out of whack?  (Again).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 23, 2022, 09:06:07 AM

Covid didn't help at all. Putin is not helping at all.

China is laughing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2022, 09:08:48 AM

Sure, oil company profits plunged during COVID for obvious reasons.  Now they are up.  It happens, it's a cycle.  But the reason gas prices are higher than "normal" relative to the price of oil is related to refinery capacity.

Gas should be priced around $4.30 based on the price of oil, roughly, in the US.  It's close to $5 because we can't refine enough to meet demand.  Demand SHOULD start to slack off and prices will trend down.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 23, 2022, 09:12:08 AM

Demand has already started to decline. The price is too high and people are not driving as much, and when they do, the trips are carefully planned.

Everyone we know, including us, is doing this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2022, 09:29:59 AM

Russia's ruble hit strongest level in 7 years despite sanctions (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/23/russias-ruble-is-at-strongest-level-in-7-years-despite-sanctions.html)

“Ruble strength is linked to a surplus in the overall balance of payments, which is much more driven by exogenous factors linked to sanctions, commodity prices and policy measures than by longer term underlying macroeconomic trends and fundamentals,” said Themos Fiotakis, head of FX research at Barclays.
Russia’s Ministry of Economy said in mid-May that it expects unemployment to hit nearly 7% (https://ria.ru/20220517/bezrabotitsa-1789123116.html) this year, and that a return to 2021 levels is unlikely until 2025 at the earliest.
Since Russia’s war in Ukraine began, thousands of international companies have exited Russia, leaving huge numbers of unemployed Russians in their wake. Foreign investment has taken a massive hit, and poverty nearly doubled in just the first five weeks of the war (https://rosstat.gov.ru/folder/313/document/168756) alone, according to Russia’s federal statistics agency Rosstat.
“The Russian ruble is no longer an indicator for the health of the economy,” Hess said. “While the ruble has surged thanks to the Kremlin’s interference, its inattention to Russian’s well-being continues. Even Russia’s own statistics agency, famous for massaging numbers to meet the Kremlin’s goals, acknowledged that (https://rosstat.gov.ru/folder/313/document/168756) the number of Russians living in poverty rose from 12 [million] to 21 million people in Q1 2022.”
As for whether the ruble’s strength can be sustained, Fiotakis said, “It is very uncertain and depends on how the geopolitics evolve and policy adjusts.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 23, 2022, 11:06:24 AM

Chicago has become such a crime infested decaying sh*thole- that not long after it’s wealthiest resident and the wealthiest person in the state of Illinois- Ken Griffin ($25 billion net worth) ditched the city and state as his permanent residence for Palm Beach, Florida - he’s now relocating his hedge fund headquarters- Citadel - to Miami. Citadel has around 1,000 employees in Chicago, some will stay as Citdael will still maintain an office in Chicago, but  most are expected to make the move to the new HQ in South Florida.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2022, 11:12:41 AM

Supreme Court expands gun rights in major Second Amendment ruling | The Hill (https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/3523912-supreme-court-expands-gun-rights-in-major-second-amendment-ruling/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 23, 2022, 11:24:54 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 23, 2022, 11:06:24 AM

Chicago has become such a crime infested decaying sh*thole- that not long after it’s wealthiest resident and the wealthiest person in the state of Illinois- Ken Griffin ($25 billion net worth) ditched the city and state as his permanent residence for Palm Beach, Florida - he’s now relocating his hedge fund headquarters- Citadel - to Miami. Citadel has around 1,000 employees in Chicago, some will stay as Citdael will still maintain an office in Chicago, but  most are expected to make the move to the new HQ in South Florida.

The former Governor and mega millionaire Bruce Rauner also moved to Florida. He butted heads with the disgraced former Speaker for 4 years and got nothing done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 23, 2022, 02:37:37 PM

If you have the choice of living in Chicago or any city at that latitude vs Miami.......you pick Miami.  Duh.
.
Ray, if someone asks if you're a god....you say YES!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2022, 02:39:41 PM

I personally would probably lean to Seattle, though I'd want to check that, or perhaps Boston, over Miami.  Then there are a host of smaller cities to consider as possibilities, weather would be similar in all of them except near the coasts.  Maybe Albany, NY would work.

Boise, Idaho would make my list also.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 23, 2022, 03:06:09 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 23, 2022, 02:39:41 PM

I personally would probably lean to Seattle, though I'd want to check that, or perhaps Boston, over Miami.  Then there are a host of smaller cities to consider as possibilities, weather would be similar in all of them except near the coasts.  Maybe Albany, NY would work.

Boise, Idaho would make my list also.

Miami isn't for old people anymore. Those days are long gone. It's increasingly becoming a playground for the young wealthy. Nothing but flashy overpriced night clubs, bars, restaurants, shops and sweet ass modern billion dollar condo buildings going up everywhere. Miami used to be cheap place to live and stay. Now you've got to have serious bread to live there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2022, 03:14:04 PM

I've spent some time in Miami, it's not my cup of tea.

It's not the end of the world either.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 23, 2022, 04:02:09 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 23, 2022, 02:37:37 PM

If you have the choice of living in Chicago or any city at that latitude vs Miami.......you pick Miami.  Duh.
.
Ray, if someone asks if you're a god....you say YES!

Yeah, except they waited to move until they were in their later years, because they loved Chicago so much and wanted to stay. That also applies to me. I absolutely used to love that chitty. 

It is not what it was, and there is no returning. Bad policy will do that.

It's over.

The "money" is leaving.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2022, 04:31:39 PM

Different folks like different strokes.  Good friends of mine are from St. Paul and retired in northern Wisconsin, not my cup of tea.  They don't like the heat.

We looked around a fair bit for a place to retire, this checked out options pretty well.  It's not for everyone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 23, 2022, 05:10:44 PM

Well plainly, the Mediterranean climate is probably "best" for human beings.  That's why there's infinite people living between Santa Barbara and San Diego.  That's why Hawai'i is a thing.  Leaving the pizza oven of Phoenix for 4 days and spending time in SoCal openend my eyes.  To have nice, warm days AND cool evenings is fantastic. 
.
That being said, I can't seem to find an answer to this:  did the first settlers here not know about latitude and climate?  I'm guessing that 'land is land' after a fraught Atlantic crossing, but Virginia and New England seem like stupid-ass places to stay.  All the tales of winter woe were overtly unnecessary.  Did they not know that down south, there were no tough winters???  The coastal south is fantastic! 
.
Today, anyone in love with Wisconsin or Chicago or whatever other Siberian Shangri-La is just a slave to tradition.  Overly proud of their tough skin and bizarre willingness to overcome volunteered obstacles. 
Hell, I guess you can't worship the Rose Bowl and the sunshine and the San Gabriels unless you live in a frozen-over hell.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2022, 05:25:28 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 23, 2022, 05:10:44 PM

That being said, I can't seem to find an answer to this:  did the first settlers here not know about latitude and climate?  I'm guessing that 'land is land' after a fraught Atlantic crossing, but Virginia and New England seem like stupid-ass places to stay.  All the tales of winter woe were overtly unnecessary.  Did they not know that down south, there were no tough winters???  The coastal south is fantastic! 

Sure, they knew all about latitude, and climate, and therein was their problem.  They didn't understand the other factors that regulate climate, like ocean currents.

Montreal is at the same latitude as Paris or London and is obviously MUCH colder.  Seattle is at the same as Chicago more or less and is much warmer.

There also was a major factor relating to ocean currents and where they could sail and make progress.  They didn't know about currents at first, they really dictated who could settle where in the New World to a large degree.


The Gulf Stream and the Age of Exploration | Coastal Review (https://coastalreview.org/2016/04/13740/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 23, 2022, 05:37:15 PM

Yeah, that Gulf Stream is the boss. I know this one guy who is a sailboat racer (hobby). He was on a crew that sailed from New York to Bermuda and back. He said that the Stream altered the courses so much that the race was extended by four days.

Once you get into that thing with a sailing vessel, you can't barely get out. It can take you hundreds of miles off course.

Of course most settlers didn't know about this until it was too late.

You can head for Florida from Bermuda and never make it.

The Stream is also the main reason why boaters doing the Great Loop go counter-clockwise.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 23, 2022, 06:04:47 PM

It's also why it's fun to actually go in the water at Florida beaches vs freakin' torture in CA without a wetsuit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2022, 06:40:49 PM

Ocean currents are important, for a lot of things.  There is a fear with some that the North Atlantic current might lapse due to ice melt, which curiously would mean an "ice age" for Europe.  This is controversial at this point.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 23, 2022, 08:09:02 PM

Can’t tell if it was East-West jet lag that had my sleep off in Ca, or if it’s west-east jet lag that led to an accidental nap on the couch.

Either way, I’ll tell myself all sleep is healthy and soldier on. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2022, 08:25:11 PM

The Eyes of Freedom Memorial (visitcasper.com) (https://www.visitcasper.com/event/the-eyes-of-freedom-memorial/5208/)

Don't know if anyone is out that way,  this is a pretty neat exhibit.

The Eyes of Freedom - Casper, Wyoming 2022 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnHU7W1x1eU)

Moving video.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2022, 09:50:54 AM

The stock market is poised for a strong 2nd half of 2022 as the US economy avoids a recession and inflation gets cut in half, JPMorgan says (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/the-stock-market-is-poised-for-a-strong-2nd-half-of-2022-as-the-us-economy-avoids-a-recession-and-inflation-gets-cut-in-half-jpmorgan-says/ar-AAYMSIf?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=595fec9f99b242e0bbb99a8453354077)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 24, 2022, 09:59:33 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2022, 09:50:54 AM

The stock market is poised for a strong 2nd half of 2022 as the US economy avoids a recession and inflation gets cut in half, JPMorgan says (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/the-stock-market-is-poised-for-a-strong-2nd-half-of-2022-as-the-us-economy-avoids-a-recession-and-inflation-gets-cut-in-half-jpmorgan-says/ar-AAYMSIf?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=595fec9f99b242e0bbb99a8453354077)

This would be great I just dont believe it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2022, 10:04:11 AM

I learned to ignore such forecasts.  Some of them will be right, but randomly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2022, 10:10:55 AM

Felt like a sunshine pumper for a minute there.

Now back to my grumpy self.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2022, 10:30:05 AM

Prepare for "mostly peaceful" protests starting NOW.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 24, 2022, 10:34:05 AM

Dems control the Senate, House, & White House.

They can push to pass legislation guaranteeing abortion rights. They won’t.

Pelosi is currently funding Dems in races that are pro-life/anti-abortion. If she cared so much about Roe v Wade and abortion rights- why is she doing this?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2022, 10:37:47 AM

I think Manchin (and if needed Sinema) control the Senate, to a large degree.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 24, 2022, 10:40:47 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2022, 09:50:54 AM

The stock market is poised for a strong 2nd half of 2022 as the US economy avoids a recession and inflation gets cut in half, JPMorgan says (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/the-stock-market-is-poised-for-a-strong-2nd-half-of-2022-as-the-us-economy-avoids-a-recession-and-inflation-gets-cut-in-half-jpmorgan-says/ar-AAYMSIf?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=595fec9f99b242e0bbb99a8453354077)

I sure hope that’s the case. 

Removing every and all sanction on Russia and ending this psychotic proxy war in Ukraine- which is nothing but full scale looting and embezzling $55 billion from the American tax payer- and winning back the Saudis and getting them to play ball would sure help cool inflation pretty quickly. 

President Geriatric Shits-his-pants Falls off his bicycle forgets where he’s at ice cream eating f**kstick just pulls those two things off and we just might avoid a recession. I have zero confidence though to be honest. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 24, 2022, 10:53:32 AM

SCOTUS pulls the trigger on Roe vs Wade

Now its a party

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on June 24, 2022, 10:53:41 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2022, 10:30:05 AM

Prepare for "mostly peaceful" protests starting NOW.

What else would you expect?

In a weeks time, SCOTUS has ruled:

1) States are required to fund private religious schools.

2) Police can't be sued for not reading your rights.

3) States need not provide medical care that could exonerate prisoners.

4) Expanded rights to carry weapons without a permit.

5) Federal rights to abortion are no more.

Conservatives whine constantly about the possibility of liberals stacking the court, which never happened.  Yet conservatives have done just that.  At this point it's obviously a political court and should be mandated equal party representation.

The erosion of separation of church and state is particularly worrisome, and I'll leave it at that to avoid any further religious debate.

Not taking steps to exonerate the innocent is absolutely disgusting.  But hey, this is a country that has for profit prisons.  "Land of the Free" my ass.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 24, 2022, 10:55:41 AM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on June 24, 2022, 10:53:41 AM

What else would you expect?

In a weeks time, SCOTUS has ruled:

1) States are required to fund private religious schools.

2) Police can't be sued for not reading your rights.

3) States need not provide medical care that could exonerate prisoners.

4) Expanded rights to carry weapons without a permit.

5) Federal rights to abortion are no more.

Conservatives whine constantly about the possibility of liberals stacking the court, which never happened.  Yet conservatives have done just that.  At this point it's obviously a political court and should be mandated equal party representation.

The erosion of separation of church and state is particularly worrisome, and I'll leave it at that to avoid any further religious debate.

Not taking steps to exonerate the innocent is absolutely disgusting.  But hey, this is a country that has for profit prisons.  "Land of the Free" my ass.

I agree with you on all these fronts. Supreme Court has turned into an extremely politicized kangaroo court. Every one of those 5 things is complete and utter horse shit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2022, 11:03:44 AM

Even RBG stated that R v W was flawed from the start. This is not a political decision. The is a decision based on the Constitution, which guarantees power to the States. R v W has nothing to do with A14. That is why it was overturned.

A2 guarantees with right to bear arms (legally). This is also a Constitutional decision.

As far as abortion is concerned, I've been pretty clear on my position. It is a choice, and I believe in most states you can still obtain one if that is your choice. It wouldn't be my choice, but your choice is none of my f'ing business.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 24, 2022, 11:09:48 AM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on June 24, 2022, 10:53:41 AM

What else would you expect?

In a weeks time, SCOTUS has ruled:

1) States are required to fund private religious schools.

2) Police can't be sued for not reading your rights.

3) States need not provide medical care that could exonerate prisoners.

4) Expanded rights to carry weapons without a permit.

5) Federal rights to abortion are no more.

6) There are 6 votes on the Court to overturn any rights that came about as a result of a 14th Amendment Court decision. These include, but are not limited to, privacy, interstate travel, birthright citizenship, interracial marriage, same-sex marriage, legal counsel even if you can't afford it, and the right to not have illegally seized evidence used against you. 

Added things for you.

And I'm expecting the Court to decide in the EPA case that the every executive branch regulatory structure is unconstitutional and shall be ignored.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2022, 11:12:16 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on June 24, 2022, 11:09:48 AM

Added things for you.

And none of that will happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2022, 11:15:36 AM

Straight from the source:

     

“It was my pseudonym, Jane Roe, which had been used to create the "right" to abortion out of legal thin air.

But Sarah Weddington and Linda Coffee never told me that what I was signing would allow women to come up to me 15, 20 years later and say, ‘Thank you for allowing me to have my five or six abortions. Without you, it wouldn't have been possible.’

 

Sarah never mentioned women using abortions as a form of birth control.

 

We talked about truly desperate and needy women, not women already wearing maternity clothes.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 24, 2022, 11:26:53 AM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on June 24, 2022, 10:53:41 AM

What else would you expect?

In a weeks time, SCOTUS has ruled:

1) States are required to fund private religious schools.

That was not the ruling.  The ruling was you cant discriminate against schools just because they are religious  Youre not required to fund any school but if you do you must treat religious schools as you would a nonreligious school

2) Police can't be sued for not reading your rights.

This does not stop judges from throwing out your words because no rights were read.  You just cant sue police for not reading rights

4) Expanded rights to carry weapons without a permit.

Simply struck down an over reaching New York CC law.  There was no expansion of rights but instead a support of Constitutional rights originally granted

5) Federal rights to abortion are no more.

It should never have been a Federal issue and should have been left to the states

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2022, 11:29:57 AM

The NY gun case just meant they couldn't attach criteria to getting a CC permit based on showing need.  Criminals don't worry about getting said permit of course.

It did not expand rights to carry without a permit, at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 24, 2022, 11:33:15 AM

I think eventually that SCOTUS will strike down all or part of the current gun legislation if it passes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2022, 11:34:57 AM

A curious thing, it takes time to strike down a law, but potentially not much time to pass one.  What if states just pass laws knowing they will be struck down, and then pass the same law again?

Or if states fail to abide by rulings?  Some states did this during desegregation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 24, 2022, 11:38:23 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2022, 11:12:16 AM

And none of that will happen.

https://twitter.com/fordm/status/1540338064324698112?s=20&t=VHM6HZwdhRbzDgwSnwwNTg

Lawrence, Obergefell, and Griswold are on the chopping block next.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 24, 2022, 11:38:41 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 24, 2022, 11:34:57 AM

A curious thing, it takes time to strike down a law, but potentially not much time to pass one.  What if states just pass laws knowing they will be struck down, and then pass the same law again?

Or if states fail to abide by rulings?  Some states did this during desegregation.

once Scotus has ruled lower courts will enforce it making the time shorter but hey nothing is perfect 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2022, 12:09:13 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on June 24, 2022, 11:38:23 AM

https://twitter.com/fordm/status/1540338064324698112?s=20&t=VHM6HZwdhRbzDgwSnwwNTg

Lawrence, Obergefell, and Griswold are on the chopping block next.

Not going to happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 24, 2022, 12:33:57 PM

Quote

6) There are 6 votes on the Court to overturn any rights that came about as a result of a 14th Amendment Court decision. These include, but are not limited to, privacy, interstate travel, birthright citizenship, interracial marriage, same-sex marriage, legal counsel even if you can't afford it, and the right to not have illegally seized evidence used against you. 

That is a complete overreaction to the ruling released today. Row was a decision that was simply made up in an effort to tie it to the 14th as a justification. Even Ginsburg had stated that is was wrongly decided. All this decision does is sent it back to the states were it has always belonged. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 24, 2022, 01:03:03 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2022, 12:09:13 PM

Not going to happen.

Please elaborate. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2022, 01:37:11 PM

Six votes on SCOTUS COULD overturn anything they want.  A question is whether they are likely to do something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 24, 2022, 03:42:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2022, 12:09:13 PM

Not going to happen.

It's in the fucking ruling and all you're saying is "nuh uh" over and over.  What planet are you on?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 24, 2022, 03:42:24 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on June 24, 2022, 01:03:03 PM

Please elaborate.

He can't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 24, 2022, 03:47:51 PM

I'm not all up at arms on this ruling.  But I don't think people who love it realize what they're getting.  Do you know who's going to be having these unwanted babies?  The women who don't have cars.  The women who can't afford the gas for a trip 2 states over.  The poorest and least-able to raise the children.  The women who will rely most on the same programs you want eliminated.  
So when I say you're advocating for a slave class, that's what it turns out to be.  Those children born that previously wouldn't have been, are going to grow up in the worst possible conditions and situations.  Hell, more than a slave class, you're guaranteeing the creation of a criminal class.  
Good job.  Great plan.  Let's have millions of unwanted kids grow up in squalor, not provide assistance for them, siphon money from their local public schools away to charters, and basically force them into a life of crime.  
Love it!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 24, 2022, 04:18:42 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 24, 2022, 03:47:51 PM

I'm not all up at arms on this ruling.  But I don't think people who love it realize what they're getting.  Do you know who's going to be having these unwanted babies?  The women who don't have cars.  The women who can't afford the gas for a trip 2 states over.  The poorest and least-able to raise the children.  The women who will rely most on the same programs you want eliminated. 
So when I say you're advocating for a slave class, that's what it turns out to be.  Those children born that previously wouldn't have been, are going to grow up in the worst possible conditions and situations.  Hell, more than a slave class, you're guaranteeing the creation of a criminal class. 
Good job.  Great plan.  Let's have millions of unwanted kids grow up in squalor, not provide assistance for them, siphon money from their local public schools away to charters, and basically force them into a life of crime. 
Love it!

or it might encourage folks to take precautions if they dont want to be parents

abortions have not been banned but left up to the people in each state what they want to do

its called democracy 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 24, 2022, 05:17:40 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 24, 2022, 03:47:51 PM

I'm not all up at arms on this ruling.  But I don't think people who love it realize what they're getting.  Do you know who's going to be having these unwanted babies?  The women who don't have cars.  The women who can't afford the gas for a trip 2 states over.  The poorest and least-able to raise the children.  The women who will rely most on the same programs you want eliminated. 
So when I say you're advocating for a slave class, that's what it turns out to be.  Those children born that previously wouldn't have been, are going to grow up in the worst possible conditions and situations.  Hell, more than a slave class, you're guaranteeing the creation of a criminal class. 
Good job.  Great plan.  Let's have millions of unwanted kids grow up in squalor, not provide assistance for them, siphon money from their local public schools away to charters, and basically force them into a life of crime. 
Love it!

I would have liked for this issue to have been left alone.  I feel like the country had settled into a kind of balance on it.

it remains to be seen how much impact this actually has.  Over 60% of abortions are via pill.Pills that are illegal are easy to get- anywhere in the Country. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 24, 2022, 05:30:20 PM

I was glad to see Biden call for peaceful protest and speak out against violence. The White House has been basically encouraging it for so long now.

They’re boarding up DC as we speak in anticipation of left violence, and it doesn’t help that Maxine waters and numerous other left politicians are calling for it today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 24, 2022, 05:35:44 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 24, 2022, 05:17:40 PM

I would have liked for this issue to have been left alone.  I feel like the country had settled into a kind of balance on it.

it remains to be seen how much impact this actually has.  Over 60% of abortions are via pill.Pills that are illegal are easy to get- anywhere in the Country. 

Im much more for using pills as it has to be done within the first 10 weeks and does not use hospital resources

Its the late term abortions that really get to me

Im sure these pills will find a black market and probably be used incorrectly but I dont think there is a quick solution

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 24, 2022, 05:37:40 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 24, 2022, 05:30:20 PM

I was glad to see Biden call for peaceful protest and speak out against violence. The White House has been basically encouraging it for so long now.

They’re boarding up DC as we speak in anticipation of left violence, and it doesn’t help that Maxine waters and numerous other left politicians are calling for it today.

does anybody actually listen to Maxine Waters

she is the one who thought an Island would sink if too many people were on it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on June 24, 2022, 05:38:02 PM

I love it.  9 folks in robes (5 in truth) should not govern a nation when it comes to unemumerated rights.  Roe was an abomination of a ruling and Casey was arguably no bettrr. Self governance, whatever the outcome here is what we deserve.

This issue has infected our National political scene unnecessarily for nearly half a century.  It solved nothing.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2022, 05:40:54 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 24, 2022, 05:37:40 PM

she is the one who thought an Island would sink if too many people were on it

That was Hank Johnson, worried that Guam might flip over, he claimed he was joking.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 24, 2022, 06:16:49 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 24, 2022, 05:35:44 PM

Im much more for using pills as it has to be done within the first 10 weeks and does not use hospital resources

Its the late term abortions that really get to me

Im sure these pills will find a black market and probably be used incorrectly but I dont think there is a quick solution

The late term ones are blessedly rare. At least I think that’s what I read.

The worst part about how much of a wedge this issue became is that there seems to be just a ton of middl ground for a lot of folks. But the worry of both sides about slippery slopes and the suddenness of Roe made everyone dig in.


At worst, it should be an issue ripe for compromise in a world less bombastic than our own.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 24, 2022, 06:54:07 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 24, 2022, 06:16:49 PM

The late term ones are blessedly rare. At least I think that’s what I read.

The worst part about how much of a wedge this issue became is that there seems to be just a ton of middl ground for a lot of folks. But the worry of both sides about slippery slopes and the suddenness of Roe made everyone dig in.


At worst, it should be an issue ripe for compromise in a world less bombastic than our own.

I think that as time passes and folks begin to realize that abortions are still very much available things will calm down

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2022, 06:58:41 PM

Ed Zachery

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2022, 06:59:06 PM

the price of gasoline is much more important

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 24, 2022, 07:15:07 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 24, 2022, 06:59:06 PM

the price of gasoline is much more important

yep and the price of everything else

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on June 24, 2022, 08:17:29 PM

Indeed.  If you look around,  Most civilized nations have a fair amount of restrictions, which evidences the middle ground of the issue, again without rule by judicial fiat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2022, 11:04:05 PM

Baker Hughes on Friday reported that the number of active U.S. rigs drilling for oil was up by 10 to 594 this week. That was the biggest weekly rise since the week ended May 20, Baker Hughes data show. The total active U.S. rig count, which includes those drilling for natural gas, climbed by 13 to 753, according to Baker Hughes. Oil prices continued to trade higher. August West Texas Intermediate crude was up $2.35, or 2.3%, at $106.62 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 24, 2022, 11:26:07 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 24, 2022, 04:18:42 PM

or it might encourage folks to take precautions if they dont want to be parents

abortions have not been banned but left up to the people in each state what they want to do

its called democracy

Great, let's have even more pinpoint democracy and have each county vote on it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 24, 2022, 11:28:28 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 24, 2022, 06:54:07 PM

I think that as time passes and folks begin to realize that abortions are still very much available things will calm down

Not available to the poorest and in the worst situations.  
It's like you see I post something, don't read it, and automatically disagree with what I might have said.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 24, 2022, 11:29:04 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 24, 2022, 04:18:42 PM

or it might encourage folks to take precautions if they dont want to be parents

Yeah, while we're at it, let's just get people to not speed while driving.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 25, 2022, 12:54:11 AM

Here's a fun fact:
Arizona governor Ducey's idea for no-abortion legislation doesn't include rape or incest exceptions.

Soooo, how many rape babies is too many?  5?  100?  10,000?  Or are they all precious miracles?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 25, 2022, 06:08:18 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 23, 2022, 08:28:04 AM

Refineries are working at max capacity now.  Pricing for gasoline is set on the Board of Trade, in an auction, it's in short supply so ......

And those can't be fixed or set by anyone with deep pockets? This is a manufactured hit on the rest of us by the 1%ers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 25, 2022, 06:15:47 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 24, 2022, 11:29:04 PM

Yeah, while we're at it, let's just get people to not speed while driving.

Paying a little more  for gas because you're a lead foot is not the same for footing the bill and tending to the needs of a living/breathing human for the 1st 18 yrs of it's life. Something I'm sure you have experience with

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 25, 2022, 06:36:40 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 25, 2022, 06:15:47 AM

Paying a little more  for gas because you're a lead foot is not the same for footing the bill and tending to the needs of a living/breathing human for the 1st 18 yrs of it's life. Something I'm sure you have experience with

No clue where you went with that.  The obscure leaps made here sometimes are astounding.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 25, 2022, 08:48:47 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 24, 2022, 11:29:04 PM

Yeah, while we're at it, let's just get people to not speed while driving.

example of an obscure leap

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2022, 08:53:35 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 25, 2022, 06:08:18 AM

And those can't be fixed or set by anyone with deep pockets? This is a manufactured hit on the rest of us by the 1%ers

Sure, it could be, but making a large investment in refining is probably not wise right now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2022, 08:55:16 AM

The bad news is more refineries are slated for shut down in the next year.  A few are expanding, but the shortfall would still exist barring recession.

I personally would not invest in expanding a refinery.  EVs are not going to save us shorter term, not for a decade anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 25, 2022, 08:58:18 AM

it seems to me that the trend for the next 10 years is upward for gasoline consumption

with good profit margins

I'd think a refinery could have a decent ROI

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2022, 09:02:36 AM

Refineries generally have a 30-50 year life span and cost billions, and you have significant permitting issues.  Coupled with future uncertainty in gasoline usage, I wouldn't be interested, at all.  Either way, no new one has been built in the US for decades, some existing ones have expanded.  It's well known we have a shortfall in refining capacity right now, which means a shortfall in gasoline and Diesel.

And it may get worse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 25, 2022, 09:22:37 AM

they tried to build a new refinery about 50 miles from me in the SE tip of South Dakota about 10 years ago

the locals put up a good fight, didn't want the dirty stinky thing near them with the workforce it would attract and other issues

didn't happen, I assumed it got built somewhere else, but maybe they just gave up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2022, 09:26:41 AM

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) (https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=29&t=6#:~:text=The newest refinery in the,which began operating in 2019.)

s of January 1, 2021, there were 129 operable petroleum refineries in the United States.
The newest refinery in the United States is the Targa Resources Corporation's 35,000 barrels per calendar day (b/cd) condensate splitter in Channelview, Texas, which began operating in 2019. Condensate splitters are distillation units that process condensate, which is lighter than crude oil. Splitter capacity is included as atmospheric distillation units in U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) data.

However, the newest refinery with significant downstream unit capacity is Marathon's facility in Garyville, Louisiana. That facility came online in 1977 with an initial atmospheric distillation unit capacity of 200,000 b/cd, and as of January 1, 2021, it had a capacity of 578,000 b/cd.
Capacity has also been added to existing refineries through upgrades or new construction. Some recent examples of large increases include

• In 2012, Motiva upgraded its refinery in Port Arthur, Texas, making it the largest U.S. refinery, with a capacity of 607,000 b/cd as of January 1, 2021.
• In 2015, Valero expanded its Corpus Christi, Texas refinery after previous expansions, bringing its capacity as of January 1, 2021, to 290,000 b/cd.

So, some smaller units have been built more recently than the large one in 1977.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2022, 10:00:18 AM

I think the future market for refined petroleum will be increasingly limited, over time, it's tough to project when that really starts to reduce usage.  Economic growth will counter that for a while of course.  By 2050, it's reasonable to think over half of cars and LTs will be powered by something other than gasoline.  So, perhaps the market will be something close to half what it is now, maybe.  Then we have usage by other means of transportation that may not evolve as quickly.  And then there is the use in making chemicals and plastic etc. (which is pretty substantial).  If you start a new refinery now, it is going to take ~3 years to be operational.  I think we'll see more expansions rather than green field operations.  Oil companies no doubt have looked hard at all this and have better projections than I do.

At some point, the market for oil is going to be much lower than it is today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2022, 12:30:56 PM

Florida Fans Already Want Billy Napier Fired After Desperate Open Letter (highlyclutch.com) (https://highlyclutch.com/florida-fans-are-losing-their-minds-after-billy-napier-pens-an-open-letter-urging-them-to-be-patient/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 25, 2022, 02:31:48 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on June 24, 2022, 01:03:03 PM

Please elaborate.

One judge said it.

It's not going to happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 25, 2022, 02:32:10 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 24, 2022, 03:42:24 PM

He can't.

GFY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 25, 2022, 02:36:28 PM

Anyone here ever hear of something called adoption? Maybe read up on it. It's a magical thing.

Definitely was to me, since I'm one of them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 25, 2022, 02:51:53 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on June 24, 2022, 05:38:02 PM

I love it.  9 folks in robes (5 in truth) should not govern a nation when it comes to unemumerated rights.  Roe was an abomination of a ruling and Casey was arguably no bettrr. Self governance, whatever the outcome here is what we deserve.

This issue has infected our National political scene unnecessarily for nearly half a century.  It solved nothing. 

Exactly. 


Some people need to study up on some of the the abortion laws in Utopia (Europe) too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Abba on June 25, 2022, 02:57:36 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 25, 2022, 02:36:28 PM

Anyone here ever hear of something called adoption? Maybe read up on it. It's a magical thing.

Definitely was to me, since I'm one of them.

In the case of adoptions, do the mothers get any reimbursement for their medical bills?  I've heard a pregnancy can cost as much as $10,000.  I believe an abortion costs significantly less than that.  I don't have any personal experience with either, so would like to learn more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 25, 2022, 03:04:39 PM

Quote from: Abba on June 25, 2022, 02:57:36 PM

In the case of adoptions, do the mothers get any reimbursement for their medical bills?  I've heard a pregnancy can cost as much as $10,000.  I believe an abortion costs significantly less than that.  I don't have any personal experience with either, so would like to learn more.

My parents paid for the birth mother's care, and paid the lawyer bills. Very expensive, even in 1967. I've heard upwards of $100K today.

And yet people are still lined up trying to adopt - especially the LG crowd (which I support).

I'd be very much for government assistance on this issue, by the way, if the adoptive family cannot afford the expenses completely, or at all. The caveat is that the adoptive family must display the ability to properly care for a baby. Have a home/apartment, jobs, transportation, and no criminal records.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 25, 2022, 05:41:16 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 25, 2022, 02:36:28 PM

Anyone here ever hear of something called adoption? Maybe read up on it. It's a magical thing.

Definitely was to me, since I'm one of them.

So your answer is an idea that costs $100,000?  
There are no words.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 25, 2022, 05:44:18 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 25, 2022, 03:04:39 PM

My parents paid for the birth mother's care, and paid the lawyer bills. Very expensive, even in 1967. I've heard upwards of $100K today.

And yet people are still lined up trying to adopt - especially the LG crowd (which I support).

I'd be very much for government assistance on this issue, by the way, if the adoptive family cannot afford the expenses completely, or at all. The caveat is that the adoptive family must display the ability to properly care for a baby. Have a home/apartment, jobs, transportation, and no criminal records.

Let's try out an SAT problem:  greater than, less than, or equal to
.
number of babies born from unwanted pregnancies
      >       =      <
number of couples wanting to adopt and can do so
.
Please circle your answer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2022, 06:32:02 PM

42

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 25, 2022, 10:35:37 PM

Fro called the birthing people "women."

He's gonna get rounded up and reeducated, if he keeps that up. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 26, 2022, 02:12:17 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 25, 2022, 06:36:40 AM

No clue where you went with that.  The obscure leaps made here sometimes are astounding.

Try to understand what you bloviate or have one of your voices do it for you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 26, 2022, 06:59:23 AM

Yeah, uh, OK....


Ghislaine Maxwell, ex-lover of Jeffrey Epstein, placed on suicide watch ahead of sentencing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 26, 2022, 07:07:18 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 25, 2022, 05:41:16 PM

So your answer is an idea that costs $100,000? 
There are no words.

What does money have to do with anything here?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 26, 2022, 07:43:56 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 26, 2022, 06:59:23 AM

Yeah, uh, OK....


Ghislaine Maxwell, ex-lover of Jeffrey Epstein, placed on suicide watch ahead of sentencing

:043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 26, 2022, 08:08:45 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 24, 2022, 11:26:07 PM

Great, let's have even more pinpoint democracy and have each county vote on it. 

This country is not that.

Maybe read this:


U.S. Constitution | Constitution Annotated | Congress.gov | Library of Congress (https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 26, 2022, 08:10:12 AM

The term democracy has some broad and very general definitions and is often used in a broad general way.

We're not a pure democracy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 26, 2022, 08:15:07 AM

Representative Republic.

That is what we are... if we can keep it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 26, 2022, 09:23:14 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLQ7klqYE_4

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 26, 2022, 11:28:10 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 26, 2022, 08:08:45 AM

This country is not that.

Maybe read this:


U.S. Constitution | Constitution Annotated | Congress.gov | Library of Congress (https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/)

I realize that you believe the Constitution was brought down from on-high on stone tablets by the Baby Jesus, but those who represent us (you know, by district), could decide that the legality of abortion services could be voted on by district.  
Your "nuh uh, cuz it's not in the constitution" retorts are akin to saying iphones are illegal because the consitution doesn't explicitily say they're an inalienable right to posses.

Better ideas can exist and be employed by those voted into office.  The fun part is that my previous sentence is so absurd as to be laughable.  No one voted into office would employ any next-level, improved ideas.
You want continued dissention.  Making the legality of abortion district-by-district would all but eliminate the wedge this issue causes for our nation, but OH NO, we can't have that!

Pretend you're a girl who got knocked up at a party by a guy you don't really know.  Imagine you live in Ocala, FL.  The nearest place you will be able to get an abortion is fucking Illinois.  In my plan, you'd just need to drive up to Gainesville.  It's a compromise. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 26, 2022, 11:30:33 AM

He merely noted the country is not a democracy, which strictly speaking is true.  The term however is used more broadly often as not.

I presume some state could do this county by county, but many states would not want that of course.  It's up to each state now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 26, 2022, 11:47:28 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 26, 2022, 11:28:10 AM

I realize that you believe the Constitution was brought down from on-high on stone tablets by the Baby Jesus, but those who represent us (you know, by district), could decide that the legality of abortion services could be voted on by district. 
Your "nuh uh, cuz it's not in the constitution" retorts are akin to saying iphones are illegal because the consitution doesn't explicitily say they're an inalienable right to posses.

Better ideas can exist and be employed by those voted into office.  The fun part is that my previous sentence is so absurd as to be laughable.  No one voted into office would employ any next-level, improved ideas.
You want continued dissention.  Making the legality of abortion district-by-district would all but eliminate the wedge this issue causes for our nation, but OH NO, we can't have that!

Pretend you're a girl who got knocked up at a party by a guy you don't really know.  1. Imagine you live in Ocala, FL.  The nearest place you will be able to get an abortion is fucking Illinois.  In my plan, you'd just need to drive up to Gainesville.  2. It's a compromise.

1. Get a f'ing clue and do some research before you post this kind of crap. What little credibility you have is eroding here. You can get an abortion in Florida, up until the 15 weeks pass.

 2. No, it's ignorance, plain and simple.

Do better.

This is from the Wall Street Journal.

Where Abortion Is Legal and Where It Loses Protections Without Roe v. Wade - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/where-abortion-is-legal-and-where-it-loses-protections-without-roe-v-wade-11656080346)

(https://i.imgur.com/7qhIBBZ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 26, 2022, 12:12:49 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2022, 11:03:44 AM

Even RBG stated that R v W was flawed from the start. This is not a political decision. The is a decision based on the Constitution, which guarantees power to the States. R v W has nothing to do with A14. That is why it was overturned.

A2 guarantees with right to bear arms (legally). This is also a Constitutional decision.

As far as abortion is concerned, I've been pretty clear on my position. It is a choice, and I believe in most states you can still obtain one if that is your choice. It wouldn't be my choice, but your choice is none of my f'ing business.

So, parts of this are not quire right.

If what I've read is correct, RGB said the logic of Roe was not exactly what she wanted to see. She felt another part of the 14th amendment was a stronger argument for it. So more a light distinction than seeing it as "flawed." She also felt that the broad assertion of it as a right all at once was likely to cause a backlash, rather than just a narrow decision that started eroding abortion laws on the fringes. (She felt a case she argued was a better venue. It was somewhat wild. She was arguing for the right not to get an abortion. The air force at the time said they'd fire someone for being pregnant, in essence forcing an abortion to hold onto a job).

It also doesn't have anything to do with state government vs federal government. On of the concurrencies said it could be on states or on congress, should it so choose. 

The 2A stuff is interesting because of that "(legally)" that got thrown in. The text says the right shall not be infringed. That feels like it implies a pure textual reading is that there is no illegally possessed firearm (I suppose with some caveats for age). Now, we obviously limit firearm ownership somewhat, so we're really just poking and prodding around questions of "how much?" (my thoughts on that matter shifted through the years, but I've already babbled about that too much)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 26, 2022, 12:42:55 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 26, 2022, 11:28:10 AM

Pretend you're a girl who got knocked up at a party by a guy you don't really know.  Imagine you live in Ocala, FL.  The nearest place you will be able to get an abortion is fucking Illinois.  In my plan, you'd just need to drive up to Gainesville.  It's a compromise.

Seems like it would be a lot easier and cheaper to just order up one of those free abortion pills with free shipping. 

Don't be so dramatic. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 26, 2022, 08:15:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 26, 2022, 11:47:28 AM

1. Get a f'ing clue and do some research before you post this kind of crap. What little credibility you have is eroding here. You can get an abortion in Florida, up until the 15 weeks pass.

 2. No, it's ignorance, plain and simple.

Do better.

This is from the Wall Street Journal.

Where Abortion Is Legal and Where It Loses Protections Without Roe v. Wade - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/where-abortion-is-legal-and-where-it-loses-protections-without-roe-v-wade-11656080346)

(https://i.imgur.com/7qhIBBZ.png)

I'm not talking about today, I'm talking about when DeSantis gets his way, now that the SCOTUS has let him get as demented as he wants.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 26, 2022, 08:17:02 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on June 26, 2022, 12:42:55 PM

Seems like it would be a lot easier and cheaper to just order up one of those free abortion pills with free shipping.

Don't be so dramatic.

So 847 wants people to buy all the extra babies and your plan is for these women to break the law in their state.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 26, 2022, 09:28:23 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 26, 2022, 08:15:07 PM

I'm not talking about today, I'm talking about when DeSantis gets his way, now that the SCOTUS has let him get as demented as he wants.

Talk about demented lol.

you menstruating people are so removed from reality.  It’s hard to even believe.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 26, 2022, 10:03:35 PM

I'm demented, knowing certain states are going to ban abortion, but also knowing it's going to take them more than 48 hours to do so?
Mkay.
As long as you consider me demented, I know I'm doing well.  Thanks for being my unwitting reverse sanity barometer.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 26, 2022, 10:57:20 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 26, 2022, 08:17:02 PM

So 847 wants people to buy all the extra babies and your plan is for these women to break the law in their state. 

Oh, I don't have a solution. Actions have consequences. No magic fix if you get herpes instead of an unwanted pregnancy. 

If you don't want to OD, then don't shoot heroin. If you don't want a DUI on your way home from the bar, then don't walk up to the bartender and order a drink. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 26, 2022, 11:20:12 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on June 26, 2022, 10:57:20 PM

Oh, I don't have a solution. Actions have consequences. No magic fix if you get herpes instead of an unwanted pregnancy.

If you don't want to OD, then don't shoot heroin. If you don't want a DUI on your way home from the bar, then don't walk up to the bartender and order a drink.

I used to think the Romans habit of throwing up so they could gorge themselves further was extreme 

but upon thinking on it the wide availability to get an abortion is very similar

you say being pregnant is inconvenient just kill the baby and reload no problem

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 26, 2022, 11:37:00 PM

What baby?  If it was a baby, the word 'fetus' wouldn't exist.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 26, 2022, 11:47:25 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on June 26, 2022, 10:57:20 PM

Oh, I don't have a solution. Actions have consequences. No magic fix if you get herpes instead of an unwanted pregnancy.

If you don't want to OD, then don't shoot heroin. If you don't want a DUI on your way home from the bar, then don't walk up to the bartender and order a drink.

So you edited your idea from women illegally getting abortions to instead have them practice abstinence.

Is this some sort of trolling contest I'm not aware of?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 26, 2022, 11:56:10 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 26, 2022, 11:37:00 PM

What baby?  If it was a baby, the word 'fetus' wouldn't exist.

and therein is the whole problem

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 27, 2022, 04:47:18 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 26, 2022, 11:56:10 PM

and therein is the whole problem

Facts?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 27, 2022, 07:56:48 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 26, 2022, 08:15:07 PM

I'm not talking about today, I'm talking about when DeSantis gets his way, now that the SCOTUS has let him get as demented as he wants.

The law just passed with the overturn looming. It goes into effect on July 1. It is NOT going any further as the 6 week ban was buried in committee.


You have ZERO credibility now. Don't bother doing any research. Your mind is set.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2022, 08:13:48 AM

Russia-Ukraine war: Baltic nations push for change at NATO summit (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/27/russia-ukraine-war-baltic-nations-push-for-change-at-nato-summit.html)

I'm not sure the Baltic states are defensible without a major buildup that is unlikely.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2022, 08:46:29 AM

The world's most liveable cities for 2022 | CNN Travel (https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/economist-world-most-liveable-cities-2022/index.html)

2022's Global Liveability Index: The top 10

1. Vienna, Austria
2. Copenhagen, Denmark
3. Zurich, Switzerland
4. Calgary, Canada
5. Vancouver, Canada
6. Geneva, Switzerland
7. Frankfurt, Germany
8. Toronto, Canada
9. Amsterdam, Netherlands
10. Osaka, Japan and Melbourne, Australia (tie)

Copenhagen struck me as livable, whatever that means, but really expensive of course.  You could easily live there without a car which would help.  I guess you'd be renting a small apartment.  My daughter says she likes Vancouver a lot.


Geneva is nice as well, but even more expensive.  Toronto has an awful airport.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 27, 2022, 09:02:05 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 26, 2022, 11:37:00 PM

What baby?  If it was a baby, the word 'fetus' wouldn't exist.

The what about other words like toddler, teanager, adult, etc. Are those not people?

If a fetus is not a person, what is it? A Buick? A tree? A horse? A spoon? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 27, 2022, 09:10:33 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 26, 2022, 11:47:25 PM

So you edited your idea from women illegally getting abortions to instead have them practice abstinence.

Is this some sort of trolling contest I'm not aware of?

Doesn't need revised. They can order a free pill and they'd never get caught. My "solution" (lol) needs to work for them, not a childless white unmarried pretentious incel in his early 40s who is pretending to be all " law and order" all of a sudden

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 27, 2022, 09:30:28 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 27, 2022, 09:02:05 AM

The what about other words like toddler, teanager, adult, etc. Are those not people?

If a fetus is not a person, what is it? A Buick? A tree? A horse? A spoon?

exactly my point

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2022, 04:50:41 PM

I had a baja burrito for lunch from Willys and got me to pondering why we like Mexican(ish) food some much.  It's basically a sandwich, as is a taco.  I don't care for tacos that much because they get all over everywhere.  A burger is better, a burrito is kind of a Mexicanish burger.  I also noticed their prices have jumped from $8.50 to $10.25.

The Korean fried chicken place also increased prices (duh), but we still like it a lot, Mukja.

We had lunch yesterday at a very rustic seafoodish place that was good but got pricey.  We had oysters.  They have some nice outdoor seating areas.  But no ocean.  

Steamhouse Lounge (http://www.steamhouselounge.com/)

(https://i.imgur.com/ets1J02.png)

Good seafood is of course really good, but it seemed to me even in Florida, much of it is from food distributors and not fresh, never found a really good place.  I know of a couple in Hilton Head.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 27, 2022, 04:54:21 PM

Don't let the door hit you in the ass, you miserable PoS.


Green Day's Billie Joe Armstrong says he's renouncing his US citizenship: 'F--- America' | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/billie-joe-armstrong-green-day-us-citizenship-roe-v-wade)



By the way, here are the abortion laws for England.

(https://i.imgur.com/hZX8GfJ.png)

Much tougher than the Democratic People's Republic of California, isn't it just?

Some stats as to when these abortions are happening:

(https://i.imgur.com/8Jb49Gg.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 27, 2022, 04:55:47 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 27, 2022, 04:50:41 PM

Good seafood is of course really good, but it seemed to me even in Florida, much of it is from food distributors and not fresh, never found a really good place.  I know of a couple in Hilton Head.

Ya gotta know where to go. I know where to go.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2022, 05:00:39 PM

Yeah, years ago I could find'em easily in Florida, look for a fishing fleet.  Those places appear to have been replaced with civilization and chains.  The food has to come from Sysco I guess.  You might as well dine at Red Lobster.  Or not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 27, 2022, 05:27:35 PM

We go to the places that have boat docks that fishermen deliver to.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: highVOLtage on June 27, 2022, 05:28:37 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 26, 2022, 11:37:00 PM

What baby?  If it was a baby, the word 'fetus' wouldn't exist.

(https://i.imgur.com/olnATVz.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 27, 2022, 08:01:41 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 27, 2022, 07:56:48 AM

The law just passed with the overturn looming. It goes into effect on July 1. It is NOT going any further as the 6 week ban was buried in committee.


You have ZERO credibility now. Don't bother doing any research. Your mind is set.

I guess I assumed he'd be like our governor and make it illegal, even for rape and incest.

Anyone here want to support THAT one?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 27, 2022, 08:03:26 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 27, 2022, 04:54:21 PM

Don't let the door hit you in the ass, you miserable PoS.


Green Day's Billie Joe Armstrong says he's renouncing his US citizenship: 'F--- America' | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/billie-joe-armstrong-green-day-us-citizenship-roe-v-wade)



By the way, here are the abortion laws for England.

(https://i.imgur.com/hZX8GfJ.png)

Much tougher than the Democratic People's Republic of California, isn't it just?

Some stats as to when these abortions are happening:

(https://i.imgur.com/8Jb49Gg.png)

I would post this as a reason people shouldn't be outraged by abortions.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 27, 2022, 08:04:48 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 27, 2022, 09:02:05 AM

The what about other words like toddler, teanager, adult, etc. Are those not people?

If a fetus is not a person, what is it? A Buick? A tree? A horse? A spoon?

Okay, let's line up a fetus, toddler, teenager, and adult.  The ones who live for more than 5 minutes are people.  Agreed?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 27, 2022, 08:23:54 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 27, 2022, 08:04:48 PM

Okay, let's line up a fetus, toddler, teenager, and adult.  The ones who live for more than 5 minutes are people.  Agreed?

Babies are born premature all the time and live long normal lives

so are folks on life support no longer people

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 27, 2022, 08:31:35 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 27, 2022, 04:54:21 PM

By the way, here are the abortion laws for England.

(https://i.imgur.com/hZX8GfJ.png)

Much tougher than the Democratic People's Republic of California, isn't it just?

Badge, you know I appreciate ya, but that quote looks suspiciously like the one from Wikipedia, and the next line says the third one is basically interpreted as carte blanche.

And the number of weeks is basically the same. So ... not really that much tougher it would appear. 

(Man, I had not thought about that artist in a minute. Were it not for the media, I wouldn't have, and I think I'll go back to not thinking about him)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 27, 2022, 11:41:11 PM

So anything happening in other news these days?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 27, 2022, 11:49:11 PM

Quote from: utee94 on June 27, 2022, 11:41:11 PM

So anything happening in other news these days? 

Nothing good 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on June 28, 2022, 12:01:12 AM

The Lemon test was finally killed off once for and all by SCOTUS today (the football coach case).  It used to be a (dorky) joke, how many times can Lemon get rejected by the Court until it is finally scrapped and overturned.  That freaking test was the Rasputin of 'balancing tests'.   For con. law geeks like me it was 30 years overdue.    One of the most comical dissents I've ever read, and had reason to dig it up again today after reading a blog by a retired con law prof.

 Is anyone keeping count of how many times the Court has "overruled Lemon"? Has a case ever been "overruled" so many times and still lived on?

It was all the way back in 1993 that Justice Scalia wrote (https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/91-2024.ZC.html):

Quote

As to the Court's invocation of the Lemon test: Like some ghoul in a late night horror movie that repeatedly sits up in its grave and shuffles abroad, after being repeatedly killed and buried, Lemon stalks our Establishment Clause jurisprudence once again, frightening the little children and school attorneys of Center Moriches Union Free School District. Its most recent burial, only last Term, was, to be sure, not fully six feet under: our decision in Lee v. Weisman, 505 U. S. ----, ---- (1992) (slip op., at 7), conspicuously avoided using the supposed "test" but also declined the invitation to repudiate it. 

Quote

Over the years, however, no fewer than five of the currently sitting Justices have, in their own opinions, personally driven pencils through the creature's heart (the author of today's opinion repeatedly), and a sixth has joined an opinion doing so. See, e. g., Weisman, supra, at ---- (slip op., at 14) (Scalia, J., joined by, inter alios, Thomas, J., dissenting); Allegheny County v. American Civil Liberties Union, Greater Pittsburgh Chapter, 492 U.S. 573 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/492/573), 655-657 (1989) (Kennedy, J., concurring in judgment in part and dissenting in part); Corporation of Presiding Bishop of Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints v. Amos, 483 U.S. 327 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/483/327), 346-349 (1987) (O'Connor, J., concurring); Wallace v. Jaffree, 472 U.S. 38 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/472/38), 107-113 (1985) (Rehnquist, J., dissenting); id., at 90-91 (White, J., dissenting); School Dist. of Grand Rapids v. Ball, 473 U.S. 373 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/473/373), 400 (1985) (White, J., dissenting); Widmar v. Vincent, 454 U.S. 263 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/454/263), 282 (1981) (White, J., dissenting); New York v. Cathedral Academy, 434 U.S. 125 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/434/125), 134-135 (1977) (White, J., dissenting); Roemer v. Maryland Bd. of Public Works, 426 U.S. 736 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/426/736), 768 (1976) (White, J., concurring in judgment); Committee for Public Education & Religious Libertyv. Nyquist, 413 U.S. 756 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/413/756), 820 (1973) (White, J., dissenting). 

The secret of the Lemon test's survival, I think, is that it is so easy to kill. It is there to scare us (and our audience) when we wish it to do so, but we can command it to return to the tomb at will. See, e. g., Lynch v. Donnelly, 465 U.S. 668 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/465/668), 679 (1984) (noting instances in which Court has not applied Lemon test). When we wish to strike down a practice it forbids, we invoke it, see, e. g., Aguilar v. Felton, 473 U.S. 402 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/473/402) (1985) (striking downstate remedial education program administered in part in parochial schools); when we wish to uphold a practice it forbids, we ignore it entirely, see Marsh v. Chambers, 463 U.S. 783 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/463/783) (1983) (upholding state legislative chaplains). Sometimes, we take a middle course, calling its three prongs "no more than helpful signposts," Hunt v. McNair, 413 U.S. 734 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/413/734), 741 (1973). Such a docile and useful monster is worth keeping around, at least in a somnolent state; one never knows when one might need him.

Quote

For my part, I agree with the long list of constitutional scholars who have criticized Lemon and bemoaned the strange Establishment Clause geometry of crooked lines and wavering shapes its intermittent use has produced. See, e. g., Choper, The Establishment Clause and Aid to Parochial Schools--An Update, 75 Cal. L. Rev. 5 (1987); Marshall, "We Know It When We See It": The Supreme Court and Establishment, 59 S. Cal. L. Rev. 495 (1986); McConnell, Accommodation of Religion, 1985 S. Ct. Rev. 1; Kurland, The Religion Clauses and the Burger Court, 34 Cath. U. L. Rev. 1 (1984); R. Cord, Separation of Church and State (1982); Choper, The Religion Clauses of the First Amendment (https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/first_amendment): Reconciling the Conflict, 41 U. Pitt. L. Rev. 673 (1980). I will decline to apply Lemon--whether it validates or invalidates the government action in question--and therefore cannot join the opinion of the Court today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: highVOLtage on June 28, 2022, 12:24:29 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 27, 2022, 08:04:48 PM

Okay, let's line up a fetus, toddler, teenager, and adult.  The ones who live for more than 5 minutes are people.  Agreed?

At what point in your life were you able to live completely unassisted on your own?  Is that the age when you became a person?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 28, 2022, 02:02:10 AM

For 5 minutes?  Probably soon after I was born.  You're trying to go down some odd tangent where you 'gotcha' me at meaning you're not a person until you can survive on your own with no assistance at all.  Which is silly.  
Let's do something more productive and try a little harder to be honest interlocutors, shall we?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 28, 2022, 07:22:33 AM

The sales are slated to be the first onshore lease sales held under the Biden administration, which paused new oil and gas leasing during much of its first year as it reviewed the federal program.  

But that pause was halted by a court — and the Biden administration held an offshore lease sale in November. 


Biden administration to hold its first oil drilling lease sales on federal lands | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/3538914-biden-administration-to-hold-its-first-oil-drilling-lease-sales-on-federal-lands/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 28, 2022, 08:19:52 AM

Quote from: utee94 on June 27, 2022, 11:41:11 PM

So anything happening in other news these days? 

Great to see you. Other than that, not really.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: highVOLtage on June 28, 2022, 08:55:46 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 28, 2022, 02:02:10 AM

For 5 minutes?  Probably soon after I was born.  You're trying to go down some odd tangent where you 'gotcha' me at meaning you're not a person until you can survive on your own with no assistance at all.  Which is silly. 
Let's do something more productive and try a little harder to be honest interlocutors, shall we?

Why are you using a silly and arbitrary "5 minutes" to determine what is a person?  A toddler cannot survive without a caregiver.  That must mean they are not really a person yet, using your own logic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 28, 2022, 08:57:10 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 27, 2022, 08:04:48 PM

Okay, let's line up a fetus, toddler, teenager, and adult.  The ones who live for more than 5 minutes are people.  Agreed?

No. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 28, 2022, 08:58:52 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 28, 2022, 08:19:52 AM

Great to see you. Other than that, not really.

I heard something about a shortage of sriracha.  I always keep several bottles around on standby so I'm good for  while, but looking at the grocery store shelves, nowhere to be seen.

What is this world coming to?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 28, 2022, 08:59:52 AM

Damn. I better go look at the store today. I'm about half full now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 28, 2022, 09:02:20 AM

Our Kroger has been short of tonic water for weeks now.  Even Walmart was short but had some.  I don't care for the Fevertree stuff, it's OK but no better IMHO.

The local liquor store has TW aplenty at a somewhat higher price.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 28, 2022, 09:03:42 AM

There are recipes out there to make it on your own.  Looks like I might be trying that out.  You blend a papper paste with some spices and brown sugar, and then ferment it for a while, then blend it again, and cook it.  I'm down for that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 28, 2022, 09:05:32 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 28, 2022, 09:02:20 AM

Our Kroger has been short of tonic water for weeks now.  Even Walmart was short but had some.  I don't care for the Fevertree stuff, it's OK but no better IMHO.

The local liquor store has TW aplenty at a somewhat higher price.

Yeah same here.  Grocery stores are short on it, but I can find the little bottles at the liquor store.  I actually do like Fever Tree, I think it tastes better than Brand X, but not by so much that I'd refuse to drink a plain 'ol Schweppes or Canada Dry tonic if that's what was available.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 28, 2022, 09:22:57 AM

Can't find Johnnie Walker Red around here. My friend brought me a case from IL a couple of weeks ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 28, 2022, 09:39:01 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 28, 2022, 09:22:57 AM

Can't find Johnnie Walker Red around here. My friend brought me a case from IL a couple of weeks ago.

Fine friend!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 28, 2022, 10:36:48 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 28, 2022, 09:22:57 AM

Can't find Johnnie Walker Red around here. My friend brought me a case from IL a couple of weeks ago.

how much to rent the armored truck?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 28, 2022, 10:38:28 AM

Not sure, but I wouldn't want to gas that thing up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 28, 2022, 11:02:05 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 28, 2022, 09:22:57 AM

Can't find Johnnie Walker Red around here. My friend brought me a case from IL a couple of weeks ago.

With friends like that, who needs other friends? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 28, 2022, 11:17:33 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 28, 2022, 11:02:05 AM

With friends like that, who needs other friends?

Ha!

Amen brutha.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on June 28, 2022, 12:04:00 PM

Heard this report on the radio the other day - "Average Age of Cars on Road Hits New High"

According to Kelley Blue Book: "The average sedan or coupe, the report found, is 13.1 years old. The average truck or SUV is 11.6 years old.

“This is the fifth straight year the average vehicle age in the U.S. has risen. This year’s average age marks another all-time high for the average age even as the vehicle fleet recovered, growing by 3.5 million units in the past year,” the report says.

That’s due, in part, to Americans renewing lapsed registrations on vehicles they had stopped driving during the first year of the COVID-19 pandemic."

https://www.kbb.com/car-news/americans-driving-older-cars/

For the sake of family finances and resourcefulness, it's refreshing if consumers are hoping to maximize the life of their vehicles, even if it's a symptoms of rising costs. Drivers where I live are notorious for breaking bank for the status symbols of a Lexus, Audis, Mercedes, and Porsches.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 28, 2022, 12:10:23 PM

I don't view my car as a status symbol. I just like nice things, reliable things, and safe things. Mercedes-Benz checks those boxes.

Mine is 8 years old now. Hopefully it will be 30 when they take away my license to drive it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 28, 2022, 12:19:37 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 28, 2022, 12:10:23 PM

I don't view my car as a status symbol. I just like nice things, reliable things, and safe things. Mercedes-Benz checks those boxes.

Mine is 8 years old now. Hopefully it will be 30 when they take away my license to drive it.

I inherited my moms car when she passed in 2006

Its a 2001 Buick Regal and drives like a champ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 28, 2022, 12:23:40 PM

Nearly all cars today are quite reliable.  Change the oil and you're good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 28, 2022, 02:15:26 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 28, 2022, 12:10:23 PM

I don't view my car as a status symbol. I just like nice things, reliable things, and safe things. Mercedes-Benz checks those boxes.

Mine is 8 years old now. Hopefully it will be 30 when they take away my license to drive it.

I lost a car to a weird situation/engine thing, and I replaced it with something reliable, safe and more “fine” than “nice.”

I also realized my dad’s decades old car, which we thought would just expire, might live long enough that we’ll have to take his keys first. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on June 28, 2022, 02:54:41 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 28, 2022, 12:23:40 PM

Nearly all cars today are quite reliable.  Change the oil and you're good.

My 2012 Ford Fusion is hitting that point where it's still reliable, but at 180,000 miles, it's getting to the point where every time I need any work done I question it.

Also, in a post-COVID world where I only go into the office two days a week, it brings up the interesting buy vs. lease debate.  A generation ago, with those limited miles, it's a no brainer lease.  Now knowing you should be able to get a decade out of a car, it's a tougher question

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 28, 2022, 03:39:11 PM

My Volvo started acting up to much at 450K miles, and that's when I got the M-B.

Still got $4K for that old Volvo though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 28, 2022, 08:46:37 PM

Did you sell it to them at gunpoint?  WTF

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 28, 2022, 09:37:03 PM

https://youtu.be/vn_os3ClS_k

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on June 28, 2022, 09:38:07 PM

I order a case of Q tonic, 4 pack of cans on Amazon.   Never short. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 28, 2022, 09:44:06 PM

I drink Johnny Red if I run out of Black

I like a decent tonic with my Roku or Bombay - and a slice of lemon or lime or both

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on June 29, 2022, 12:04:14 AM

I just wish the SC would have just left well enough alone. I think the average American doesn’t really care one way or the other, but the vocal majority on either side forces the issue. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 29, 2022, 06:54:42 AM

I'll never understand having justices that are obviously one end or the other.  If your decisions are easily predictable for one party, you shouldn't even be a candidate for the SCOTUS.  We just accept that each justice is one or the other extreme.....it's pure insanity.  
Roberts is technically considered a conservative justice, but he's respected by both sides because his ruing isn't in lockstep with either radical side.
We can't find 8 more like him???  In the entire country???  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2022, 07:34:13 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 28, 2022, 08:46:37 PM

Did you sell it to them at gunpoint?  WTF

No rust, no rattles, new tires, AC worked *. It was a good car. Just started needing things. I told the guy he would be buying shocks soon, and probably a rear main seal. He was a mechanic and didn't care.

* This is a huge deal on a Volvo 850. If it goes, the whole dash has to come out. 26 hours of labor.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2022, 07:41:03 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/1RLAk4s.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 29, 2022, 08:58:01 AM

(https://scontent.ffsd3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t45.1600-4/277850802_23849841790570022_4716457779004530685_n.png?stp=cp0_dst-jpg_p526x296_q90_spS444&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=68ce8d&_nc_ohc=uPLd4dy3rnwAX_NeCPn&_nc_ht=scontent.ffsd3-1.fna&oh=00_AT_eGNzXa4Afqnc0bbo9ZmimUJbhMRD-UeJqFlgJEWZRHg&oe=62C086DE)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2022, 09:26:02 AM

Black is too sweet for my taste.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 29, 2022, 09:37:34 AM

green?  Gold? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2022, 10:25:25 AM

Red.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 29, 2022, 10:49:50 AM

I'm much more of a single malt guy, specifically Islay.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2022, 11:37:31 AM

Secret Service pledges response to Trump motorcade allegations | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/3541042-secret-service-pledges-response-to-trump-motorcade-allegations/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2022, 12:03:08 PM

People who "testify" without being cross examined are not witnesses. 

They are supporting actors.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 29, 2022, 12:31:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2022, 12:03:08 PM

People who "testify" without being cross examined are not witnesses.

They are supporting actors.

just another crazy Nancy witch hunt

no one is fooled by this crap

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2022, 12:46:38 PM

Nobody is fooled?

Hah!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2022, 04:48:56 PM

R Kelly got 30 years for sex-trafficking. At least we know the victims and who was abusing them in this one.

That Maxwell thing... 20 years for trafficking to who again? I'd like to know who is in that black book. 

Athletes, CEO's, D's, R's, all of them. Put the book out there.

I won't hold my breath, and I hope she doesn't kill herself.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2022, 05:19:35 PM

Don't we know some of the absued by Maxwell?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2022, 06:04:39 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 29, 2022, 05:19:35 PM

Don't we know some of the absued by Maxwell?

Those who came forward.

I want to know who the clients were. ALL of them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2022, 06:05:32 PM

Do we know the clients of Kelly's?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2022, 06:36:28 PM

Yeah, we do.

Kelly was the client.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2022, 06:37:00 PM

I've known this guy for a long time. Done a lot of work together. He's a good dood.

Skyrocketing Chicago crime has small businesses, corporations pack their bags: 'Enough is enough' (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/skyrocketing-chicago-crime-has-small-businesses-corporations-pack-their-bags-enough-is-enough/ar-AAZ0sAH?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=90ceea608ba24164b34a8770442e2077)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2022, 07:10:35 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2022, 04:48:56 PM

R Kelly got 30 years for sex-trafficking. At least we know the victims and who was abusing them in this one.

That Maxwell thing... 20 years for trafficking to who again? I'd like to know who is in that black book.

Athletes, CEO's, D's, R's, all of them. Put the book out there.

I won't hold my breath, and I hope she doesn't kill herself.

So Kelly had no clients, it was all him?  Different situation.  I don't even know who Kelly is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 29, 2022, 07:24:08 PM

I have no idea what y'all are talking about and I'm cool with that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 29, 2022, 09:55:17 PM

me too

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 29, 2022, 10:24:50 PM

Former Minnesota football defensive tackle Val Martin launched a social media tirade against the Gophers program and head coach P.J. Fleck on Tuesday with a series of tweets that extended into Wednesday afternoon. Martin, in the tweets from his personal account, said his transfer from NC State to Minnesota was "the worst thing" he ever did and repeatedly called Fleck a "car salesman" as he gave a less-than-glowing review of his time with the Gophers.

"I'm not going to lie, the worst thing I probably ever did was go to the University of Minnesota," Martin wrote in his initial tweet. "Fleck is a helluva car salesman. It's crazy because when I go places, people ask me 'Well, how is Fleck?' And I just say 'He is different,' and they laugh and say 'We heard so many stories about him."'

Martin proceeded to post screenshots of private messages from other former Minnesota players with their thoughts on Fleck to his Twitter profile.


https://247sports.com/college/nebraska/Article/Ex-Minnesota-football-player-Val-Martin-rips-car-salesman-PJ-Fleck-in-Twitter-tirade-against-Gophers-coach-189421976/?fbclid=IwAR0mqekHPf75rLNKoXZu84mdZJatD0yaSPSH6PqhU3IgeBxWM_JiKxPcNp8 (https://247sports.com/college/nebraska/Article/Ex-Minnesota-football-player-Val-Martin-rips-car-salesman-PJ-Fleck-in-Twitter-tirade-against-Gophers-coach-189421976/?fbclid=IwAR0mqekHPf75rLNKoXZu84mdZJatD0yaSPSH6PqhU3IgeBxWM_JiKxPcNp8)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on June 30, 2022, 12:03:15 AM

Quote from: utee94 on June 29, 2022, 07:24:08 PM

I have no idea what y'all are talking about and I'm cool with that.

Say it louder, let some folks hear it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 30, 2022, 12:40:21 PM

Huh? PJ Fleck nonsense. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 30, 2022, 01:17:57 PM

Sounds like the guy thought he would get playing time based solely on the fact that he was a grad transfer, then couldn't beat out those who did get PT.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 30, 2022, 05:58:46 PM

On the bright side I'm 6-0 at Jacobs/Progressive Field. The Tribe.... er,Guards won the 2nd day in a row with come from behind  walk off HR's  

 (https://i.imgur.com/E9Yf2PM.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 30, 2022, 06:05:24 PM

I was listening to the Dodgers playing the Guardians and Charlie Steiner kept calling them the Indians.  The next game, it seemed like he used 'Cleveland' a lot more often.  
It's hard to just change on a dime.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: highVOLtage on June 30, 2022, 07:34:58 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2022, 04:48:56 PM

R Kelly got 30 years for sex-trafficking. At least we know the victims and who was abusing them in this one.

That Maxwell thing... 20 years for trafficking to who again? I'd like to know who is in that black book.

Athletes, CEO's, D's, R's, all of them. Put the book out there.

I won't hold my breath, and I hope she doesn't kill herself.

(https://i.imgur.com/cQdpTj4.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2022, 10:05:41 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 30, 2022, 06:05:24 PM

I was listening to the Dodgers playing the Guardians and Charlie Steiner kept calling them the Indians.  The next game, it seemed like he used 'Cleveland' a lot more often. 
It's hard to just change on a dime.

was watching at BWWs last night
took a while for me to get the Guardians with a "C" on the cap instead of a "G"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2022, 08:15:31 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/1j9yIzZ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 01, 2022, 08:38:17 AM

The Crater of Diamonds

Situated over an eroded volcanic pipe in Arkansas, Crater of Diamonds State Park is the world's only diamond-bearing site open to the public. The park features a 37-acre plowed field where visitors can prospect for diamonds and other gemstones. Moreover, they may keep whatever they find regardless of value. Since the area became a state park in 1972, visitors have taken home more than 25,000 diamonds. In 1924, the largest diamond ever unearthed in the US was found there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 01, 2022, 11:58:33 AM

This is just unf***ing beleiveable these lampshades should be brought up on child endangering charges. There are warning signs all over the place and these douchenozzles seem to think it's a petting zoo can't make this up.I'd be in jail because i'd kick that mother or grandmother so hard in the ass she'd be wearing it as a hat

https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/animals/bison-gores-second-person-in-3-days-at-yellowstone/vi-AAZ4mBA?cvid=0366c35ae87b4f4790429dc1d5102efa

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2022, 04:17:55 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/pr0E87E.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 02, 2022, 07:05:25 AM

Please read the pinned topic at  the top of the page.

Thanks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 02, 2022, 07:25:45 AM

10 Things You Shouldn't Miss at Buc-ee's | Atlanta Magazine (https://www.atlantamagazine.com/travel/10-things-you-shouldnt-miss-at-buc-ees/?fbclid=IwAR1PxmkHoAiflZhsPDHQkw_lpg1aDRiGkTDPibWA2oA6yQQtDqky4wOVszI)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2022, 08:51:45 AM

I'm not a fan of truck stops, no matter how fancy

I do appreciate in nice shitter

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2022, 09:30:59 AM

Sioux City, Iowa -- 
With the popularity of this summer’s block buster fighter jet film featuring an awesome F-14 Tomcat, 2022 is shaping up to be the year to celebrate the 4th generation fighter jet.

This week the Iowa Air National Guard has unveiled a historic fighter jet of their own; a retro 50th anniversary, down to the details, gold F-16 just as it first appeared in 1996.

In an era of elaborate commemorative aircraft paint schemes, like the Indiana ANG black A-10 or the South Dakota ANG blue F-16, the story of a gold F-16 may not sound unique but in 1996 it was epic.

The story of the 185th Fighter Wing’s gold F-16 was a big giant deal because painting an entire jet, something other than standard tactical grey was rarely done in the 1990’s. At that time units could get to permission to paint nose art or an elaborate tail flash. When the gold made its debut it was the biggest thing to reverberate across the fighter jet community since the death of Lt. J.G. Nick “Goose” Bradshaw.

The original gold F-16 first made its appearance on the flight line in Sioux City as the unit marked its 50th anniversary in 1996. This year the unit has done a do-over just as the Air Force is marking its 75th Anniversary in 2022.

By today’s standards a completely gold F-16 may not seem like an anomaly. A quick internet image search of F-16 paint schemes turns up dozens of elaborate designs. Veteran 185th members say that other than the Thunderbirds, painting an entire U.S. Air Force jet was “not done” 25 years ago.

The famous gold jet was the brainchild of former, and much beloved 185th Fighter Wing Commander Col Dennis Swanstrom.  When the F-16 static display in Sioux City had become sun baked and was due for some attention, ideas of making the F-16 gold began to swirl.

The old F-16 was on display at the Iowa Air National Guard in Sioux City for nearly 20 years. The 174th Fighter Squadron had flown F-16s during the decade of the 1990’s until converting to the KC-135 in 2001. After the unit’s conversion, the F-16 was added to a small airpark of previously flown 185th aircraft at the Air Guard unit.

Just like its predecessor, the new gold jet has the script “Pride of Siouxland” imprinted across the fuselage on one side. The other side of the aircraft has the words “The Bats 50th Anniversary” in large print. The paint also includes text that shows “1946-1996” painted on the ventral fins.

Like the original, the 2022 scheme retains the gothic bat tail flash with “Iowa” painted on the top of the tail.  The words “Sioux City” appear inside an elongated Native American headdress on the empennage at the bottom of the tail.


The 1996 version of the gold F-16 was actually one of the wing’s flying inventory at the time. It was Col. Swanstrom who gets all the blame or credit for wanting to do something striking to celebrate the unit’s milestone anniversary.

As the story goes, Swanstrom was a consummate promoter and didn’t always concern himself with particular rules if they got in the way of a good idea. The unit’s 50th anniversary happens only once and for those who knew him, when Swany had a good idea, no amount of persuasion could convince him otherwise.

Swanstrom had joined the group of F-100 pilots in the Sioux City in the late 1960s just as they were returning from Vietnam. It was during the year-long mobilization when the Iowa ANG unit first used the call sign “BAT” that is depicted on the F-16 tail. The “BAT” call sign was adopted because the unit often flew night missions while at Phu Cat airbase.

The group’s performance while at Phu Cat solidified a culture of pride and excellence that follow-on generations, led by Swanstrom, would pick up in the years ahead.

The following decade the group had perfected their close air support mission with the A-7 by earning multiple flying and aircraft maintenance awards. At the beginning of the 1990’s the unit finally obtained the Air Force’s premier multi-role fighter, combined with expertise to go with the new mission. The group knew they were part of the best trained and equipped Air Force in the world and Swanstrom was eager to tell their story.

Nearly 30 years after Swanstrom began flying, he found himself in the position where he could exercise some autonomy as the unit’s Wing Commander.  It was on the occasion of the unit’s 50th anniversary that Swanstrom wanted to do something big to celebrate.

According to unit members at that time, Swanstrom’s idea of painting the original gold jet was initially denied, citing pesky things like combat readiness.  Undeterred, Swanstrom decided that the jet could quickly be restored to tactical grey if needed, so he pressed on with his gold F-16 paint idea.

On the short list of why painting the jet gold was a good idea, Swanstrom rationalized that the jet would be an excellent way to promote the unit. According to his contemporaries it was further justified because it would be great for unit morale.

Twenty five years later, the gold F-16 is again fulfilling its purpose in 2022 of helping tell the unit’s story. The gold jet represents an idea that goes beyond just one commander or one air wing.

Ideas like the importance of airpower that began with Billy Mitchell and championed this year by Pete “Maverick” Mitchell are encapsulated by projects like the gold F-16 in Iowa. The gold jet is a celebration of every Airmen, past and present who have served proudly in the United States Air Force from its beginning through its 75th year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 02, 2022, 09:44:47 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 02, 2022, 08:51:45 AM

I'm not a fan of truck stops, no matter how fancy

I do appreciate in nice shitter

I wouldn't think of this as a truck stop as I think of them, in a fairly negative sense also, but I have yet to stop at one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2022, 09:46:41 AM

it's a truck stop

I've stopped at a few

kinda a huge truck stop with shopping like a mall

perhaps a mall with gas and diesel pumps

I also do not like or enjoy malls

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 02, 2022, 09:57:00 AM

Buccees has the cleanest bathrooms available anywhere on the road, and that is their value.  Also, their massive truck-stop-style areas of pumps, are easily accessible when I'm towing the RV or boat.

I'm not a cultist like some other Texans are about the place, but it's a great place to stop for gas and hit the head whilst on the road.  Nothing else even comes close.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2022, 09:59:49 AM

spot on

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 02, 2022, 07:24:14 PM

Actual piss-water? 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/beer-made-recycled-toilet-water-000004872.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuemlnYmVlbnV0aG91c2UuY29tLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAM98slOub6Fwwwh7Jfp_1ODqFeFa-WQBxtnnZenxRlh8SmFzZZNjT2y8M0WfRD-kLsVEaF0__Y-4xUbmF0pVGh0s2aBCy-0uXbIuEEolpjbE35cbKwvSi3tnfNOVgcPf3BHYKZiPUbLM1vTC62tqzbVTXYq3R4XYJAZ69L-ciuF7

Beer Made From Recycled Toilet Water Wins Admirers in Singapore

The alcoholic beverage is a collaboration between the country’s national water agency, PUB, and local craft brewery Brewerkz. First unveiled at a water conference in 2018, NEWBrew went on sale in supermarkets and at Brewerkz outlets in April.

“I seriously couldn’t tell this was made of toilet water,” said Chew Wei Lian, 58, who had purchased the beer from a supermarket to try after hearing about it. “I don’t mind having it if it was in the fridge. I mean, it tastes just like beer, and I like beer.”

NEWBrew uses NEWater, Singapore’s brand of drinking water recycled from sewage, which first flowed from treatment plants in 2003 to improve the island’s water security. PUB says the new beer is part of an effort to educate Singaporeans on the importance of sustainable water use and recycling.

The idea of processing sewage into drinking water, once largely resisted, has been gaining support in the past decade as the world’s supply of fresh water is increasingly under stress. The World Wildlife Fund estimates 2.7 billion people find water scarce for at least one month a year.

Advanced economies such as Israel and Singapore that have limited fresh water resources have already incorporated the technology into their supplies. Cities such as Los Angeles and London are examining plans to follow suit.

Singapore’s NEWater is made by disinfecting sewage with ultraviolet light and passing the liquid through advanced membranes to remove contaminant particles.


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/beer-made...04872.html (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/beer-made-recycled-toilet-water-000004872.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2022, 11:02:47 PM

Let's keep adding people in deserts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 02, 2022, 11:33:02 PM

Says the swamp rat, living in Phoenix. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 03, 2022, 01:33:28 AM

I can only live here because there's a city with schools.  Phoenix shouldn't exist, Vegas shouldn't, LA shouldn't, etc......you've got like 30 million people trying to use 1 river.  It's asinine.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 03, 2022, 08:03:33 AM

and yer one of the 30 million

there's other cities with schools that aren't in the desert

maybe, just maybe...... if all the intelligent teachers would move out and there were no more schools, folks would move to places with schools for their children

be a leader, not a follower

::: my mother used to tell me that:::

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2022, 08:27:20 AM

All water is "recycled", except maybe something buried deep somewhere.  Sewage effluent can be completely potable of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 03, 2022, 09:05:34 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 03, 2022, 01:33:28 AM

I can only live here because there's a city with schools.  Phoenix shouldn't exist, Vegas shouldn't, LA shouldn't, etc......you've got like 30 million people trying to use 1 river.  It's asinine. 

Everywhere else has schools too. Even Florida. 


"Do as I say, not as I do!"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2022, 09:58:35 AM

Steak Shapiro’s Top 13 BBQ Joints in Atlanta - Best places to eat in Atlanta, GA | Atlanta Eats (https://www.atlantaeats.com/blog/steak-shapiros-top-13-bbq-joints-in-atlanta/?no_cache=1656775964&fbclid=IwAR1H-I0xcn-VOlb6ETuYNSGSxr__I8MuKNeXPP49pUVGsVSAaUTwob6nC-c)

Buford Highway's Top Hidden Gems - Best places to eat in Atlanta, GA | Atlanta Eats (https://www.atlantaeats.com/blog/gems-to-try-on-buford-highway/)

I have a lot of work to do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 03, 2022, 06:23:34 PM

git R done

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 03, 2022, 07:34:19 PM

so many eating places

so little time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 03, 2022, 07:44:07 PM

I forgot all about Shwarma. I used to eat it periodically in Columbus. Pita Hut, it was called. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 03, 2022, 08:03:08 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 03, 2022, 08:03:33 AM

and yer one of the 30 million

there's other cities with schools that aren't in the desert

maybe, just maybe...... if all the intelligent teachers would move out and there were no more schools, folks would move to places with schools for their children

be a leader, not a follower

::: my mother used to tell me that:::

Are you retarded?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 03, 2022, 08:07:49 PM

not that I'm aware, but........
I suppose they might not tell me

are you one of the intelligent teachers??

ya know...not teaching in the desert

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 03, 2022, 08:11:45 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 03, 2022, 08:07:49 PM

are you one of the intelligent teachers??

ya know...not teaching in the desert

maybe he's terrified of a tsunami

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 03, 2022, 08:23:32 PM

or grits on the menu

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 03, 2022, 08:30:40 PM

What the heck is wrong with grits?

Why do people find them acceptable when you just change the name to polenta, which is the same thing?

Snobs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 03, 2022, 08:31:20 PM

I like grits

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2022, 08:36:19 PM

Grits are not polenta at all.  Polenta is some kind of weird Italian sandwich.

What Is the Difference Between Grits and Polenta? | Bon Appétit (bonappetit.com) (https://www.bonappetit.com/story/difference-grits-polenta#:~:text=Yes%2C both grits and polenta,white corn (or hominy).)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2022, 08:39:13 PM

A Hero is a Weird Sandwhich - Don Rickles - Kelly's Heroes - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUr_5S904Wo)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 03, 2022, 08:50:17 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 02, 2022, 09:57:00 AM

Buccees has the cleanest bathrooms available anywhere on the road, and that is their value.  Also, their massive truck-stop-style areas of pumps, are easily accessible when I'm towing the RV or boat.

I'm not a cultist like some other Texans are about the place, but it's a great place to stop for gas and hit the head whilst on the road.  Nothing else even comes close.

Bucees cofounder is from my little town. The #2 store is right by my house and sadly it just closed. It was a small store but you could get in and out easy. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 03, 2022, 08:54:09 PM

Quote from: Gigem on July 03, 2022, 08:50:17 PM

Bucees cofounder is from my little town. The #2 store is right by my house and sadly it just closed. It was a small store but you could get in and out easy.

The owners are ags aren't they?  I give them credit, they sure do know how to clean a restroom. ;)

Seriously though, I absolutely prefer stopping at Buccees whilst roadtripping, especially when towing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 03, 2022, 08:56:10 PM

The cleanest restrooms on the road are the ones located in hotel lobbies. 

99 times out of 100, they are in tip top shape.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 03, 2022, 08:58:43 PM

I'd guess you've never shit in a Bucees

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 03, 2022, 09:12:00 PM

the maturity of this thread is going down fast

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 03, 2022, 09:13:43 PM

it previously had maturity?????????????????

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 03, 2022, 09:15:52 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 03, 2022, 08:58:43 PM

I'd guess you've never shit in a Bucees

I don't believe that I have ever dropped a deuce in a truck stop or a rest stop.

That's what hotel lobbies are for. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on July 03, 2022, 09:16:40 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on July 03, 2022, 08:56:10 PM

The cleanest restrooms on the road are the ones located in hotel lobbies.

99 times out of 100, they are in tip top shape. 

Absolutely true.  Anyone staying at the hotel will use their own room.  Those lobby bathrooms almost always seem like they haven't been used in a week.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on July 03, 2022, 09:19:26 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 03, 2022, 08:54:09 PM

The owners are ags aren't they?  I give them credit, they sure do know how to clean a restroom. ;)

Seriously though, I absolutely prefer stopping at Buccees whilst roadtripping, especially when towing.

They started putting them in Florida.  We have one not far from us.  104 pumps.  Those damn beaver nuggets too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 03, 2022, 09:27:17 PM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on July 03, 2022, 09:16:40 PM

Absolutely true.  Anyone staying at the hotel will use their own room.  Those lobby bathrooms almost always seem like they haven't been used in a week.

Not true at all.  I exclusively use the hotel lobby restroom when I need to drop a deuce.  I sure as shootin' don't want that to happen in MY room.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on July 03, 2022, 09:50:11 PM

I thought everyone knew the hotel lobby bathroom is the place to go for a road game.  It's a no brainer.   Even my kids knew to dispatch me there lest I do it in our own hotel room.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 03, 2022, 09:59:11 PM

and if they're still serving breakfast once you're finished in the John, grab a bagel on your way out

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 03, 2022, 10:02:20 PM

Amen brutha!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 03, 2022, 10:12:30 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 03, 2022, 09:27:17 PM

Not true at all.  I exclusively use the hotel lobby restroom when I need to drop a deuce.  I sure as shootin' don't want that to happen in MY room.

Of all the posts you've nuked why not try your powers on that.Don't need to hear about your colon flexing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 03, 2022, 10:12:34 PM

Yup!  
You fly into the rarely-used lobby-adjacent bathroom, drop off Fat Man, and fly back to base.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 03, 2022, 10:23:41 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 03, 2022, 08:36:19 PM

Grits are not polenta at all.  Polenta is some kind of weird Italian sandwich.

What Is the Difference Between Grits and Polenta? | Bon Appétit (bonappetit.com) (https://www.bonappetit.com/story/difference-grits-polenta#:~:text=Yes%2C both grits and polenta,white corn (or hominy).)

https://www.allrecipes.com/article/what-is-polenta/

polenta is something I grew up with.  It is not a sandwich. 

my grandparents- here from northern Italy made it often.  She would let it arrive at a consistency she could and would slice with a thread.  She would then serve it smothered in a sauce of some kind- almost always including a tomato base and beef, pork, chicken or veal- in some combination.  It was to die for. 

it was considered a peasant dish back then. Of course now it is treated like a delicacy and served with all kinds of “ sauces”. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 03, 2022, 10:32:04 PM

https://www.foodandwine.com/recipes/polenta-with-meat-sauce


A basic example of how Italians eat polenta.  You could add/ substitute beef, pork, veal or chicken- or any combo.    Try it.  You won’t be disappointed.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 03, 2022, 11:54:13 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on July 03, 2022, 10:12:30 PM

Of all the posts you've nuked why not try your powers on that.Don't need to hear about your colon flexing

You sound defensive.  Something you're trying to hide?

And I'm out of the post-nuking business.  You buncha heathens have earned the honor of getting to read everything you post, and stew in your own juices.  Daddy's done with your daycare.  Time to fly on your own-- or more likely, die trying.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 04, 2022, 12:00:17 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on July 03, 2022, 10:32:04 PM

https://www.foodandwine.com/recipes/polenta-with-meat-sauce


A basic example of how Italians eat polenta.  You could add/ substitute beef, pork, veal or chicken- or any combo.    Try it.  You won’t be disappointed. 

One of my favorite restaurants in Catania, Sicily, served a delicious polenta and prawns dish.

You know-- shrimp and grits.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 04, 2022, 01:51:04 AM

it feels good to be liberated

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 04, 2022, 04:02:01 AM

I'd eat just about anything covered in meaty spaghetti sauce.  If I don't have any pasta, I'll just pour it over a couple of pieces of toast.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 04, 2022, 08:44:17 AM

Hartsfield-Jackson busy as July Fourth weekend gets underway (ajc.com) (https://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-airport-blog/crowds-fill-hartsfield-jackson-terminal-ahead-of-fourth-of-july/RSX2OXWU3BDMDNMVGGHOF434AY/?fbclid=IwAR3rH-MhfL4ufEQrucid9bZFzIiczWipyOIMZeZkoMhcBT2lfl8of3runvc)

Hartsfield-Jackson is expected to handle 1.7 million passengers over a six-day Independence Day travel period.

I hope nobody here is trying to fly commercially around now.  The above is almost 300,000 per day, and it's roughly an 18 hour day.  I would avoid.

There is a big 10 K with over 50,000 runners coming near us this morning.  I will avoid.  77°F right now and humid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 04, 2022, 09:04:36 AM

don't remember that last time I flew and have nothing planned for the future

I can live w/o the good italian food

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on July 04, 2022, 09:15:06 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 04, 2022, 08:44:17 AM

Hartsfield-Jackson busy as July Fourth weekend gets underway (ajc.com) (https://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-airport-blog/crowds-fill-hartsfield-jackson-terminal-ahead-of-fourth-of-july/RSX2OXWU3BDMDNMVGGHOF434AY/?fbclid=IwAR3rH-MhfL4ufEQrucid9bZFzIiczWipyOIMZeZkoMhcBT2lfl8of3runvc)

Hartsfield-Jackson is expected to handle 1.7 million passengers over a six-day Independence Day travel period.

I hope nobody here is trying to fly commercially around now.  The above is almost 300,000 per day, and it's roughly an 18 hour day.  I would avoid.

There is a big 10 K with over 50,000 runners coming near us this morning.  I will avoid.  77°F right now and humid.

Delta is like Qantas in that it's an acronym. It stands for Deliver Everyone's Luggage To Atlanta. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 04, 2022, 09:31:43 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on July 04, 2022, 09:15:06 AM

Delta is like Qantas in that it's an acronym. It stands for Deliver Everyone's Luggage To Atlanta.

😂😂😂

hope not. Flying Delta tomorrow.  West Palm Beach to Detroit so Delta hub to Delta hub and early in the day.  
going to get out of this suffocating humidity for a week and enjoy the cool crisp air of northern Michigan

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 04, 2022, 10:02:41 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on July 04, 2022, 09:31:43 AM

😂😂😂

hope not. Flying Delta tomorrow.  West Palm Beach to Detroit so Delta hub to Delta hub and early in the day. 
going to get out of this suffocating humidity for a week and enjoy the cool crisp air of northern Michigan

Ive been to Michigan in the summer and it aint cool

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 04, 2022, 10:05:25 AM

Compared to where I am at- this is cool!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 04, 2022, 10:59:23 AM

We're in Kenosha. It's not that cool today. I was actually cold on Saturday though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 04, 2022, 11:19:59 AM

Smoking two racks of beef short ribs off the plate, and two racks of pork spare ribs, today.

Happy Birthday, America!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on July 04, 2022, 11:32:28 AM

They will blame all the flight delays and cancellations on Air Traffic Control as well.  What a joke.  The airlines run a crappy, but kinda necessary, business model that punishes themselves.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 04, 2022, 11:38:34 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 04, 2022, 10:02:41 AM

Jve been to Michigan in the summer and it aint cool

Stole my exact sentiment.

Then I guess our Ohioan/Floridian friend is just lucky. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 04, 2022, 02:47:05 PM

He said Northern Michigan. Probably a lot cooler than Detroit. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 04, 2022, 05:34:43 PM

Lots of parades and other festivities cancelled today in Chicago's North suburbs.

What happened in Highland Park today is atrocious. Pure evil. I hope they find the kid, string him up and let the lions have at it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 04, 2022, 06:02:59 PM

The real news here is that the MSM is actually willing to cover a shooting in Chicago over a holiday weekend. 

There were probably at least 100 others. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 04, 2022, 07:13:36 PM

Antifa

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1544089047903223815?s=20&t=Ekmd7DthvC47YOqpNYLjSA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 04, 2022, 10:47:58 PM

Face tats are always a good idea if you're planning on doing crime.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 05, 2022, 09:22:52 AM

PRACTICAL FUSION REACTORS

The promise of limitless, carbon-free electricity has for decades inspired researchers to try to make fusion power work. Now one startup plans to deliver it to the grid by the early 2030s. Its design relies on a powerful new magnet that shattered records and should allow the company to build smaller, less expensive reactors.

https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/02/23/1045416/10-breakthrough-technologies-2022/ (https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/02/23/1045416/10-breakthrough-technologies-2022/)

A CARBON REMOVAL FACTORY

Reducing emissions is a key step to mitigating climate change. But it’s not enough, according to the UN. To avoid catastrophic future warming, we must also remove carbon dioxide from the air. The world’s biggest carbon removal factory recently opened in Iceland to do just that.

Explore MIT Technology Review's 10 breakthrough technologies for 2022.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 05, 2022, 09:58:38 AM

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/sr-71-pilot-tells-the-story-of-when-he-and-his-rso-were-almost-forced-to-ditch-their-blackbird-mach-3-spy-plane-after-an-engine-fire/ (https://theaviationgeekclub.com/sr-71-pilot-tells-the-story-of-when-he-and-his-rso-were-almost-forced-to-ditch-their-blackbird-mach-3-spy-plane-after-an-engine-fire/)

‘The “dash one” stated that an SR-71 should never be landed gear up. That’s a brilliant directive,’ Gil Bertelson, SR-71 Blackbird pilot.
This article features the story of the engine fire that plagued Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird #975 during the sortie flown on Mar. 20, 1982 by Gil Bertelson and RSO Frank Stampf as written by Bertelson himself.

Thank you very much to Jaimi Bertelson Hyde for letting us publishing her Dad’s story.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2022, 03:00:02 PM

Atlanta's iconic Varsity ponders redevelopment. Any big ideas? | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/varsity-development-property-restaurant-redevelopment-ideas)

Yes, it's a kind of landmark and icon, but the food is not very good IMHO.  They aren't closing, they own some ultraprime property though. 

(https://i.imgur.com/63N9Dl3.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2022, 03:09:25 PM

When I was a kid, it was a kind of treat to go to the Varsity.  The had a big sign that said "Have your money in hand and your order in mind.", which I took to heart.  You can be standing 30 feet away and if they aren't busy they yell at you "What'll ya have?".

It got expensive somehow.  A chili slaw dog costs $4.09, which is more than a gallon of regular at Costco.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2022, 03:32:58 PM

The building evaporators are on the fritz apparently so both my ACs are down right now.

It's not too heinous yet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 06, 2022, 03:33:27 PM

I had to share this, as you guys will like it.  Listening to Sam Harris' podcast, on Biden's speaking:  it's like your mom doing parkour.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 06, 2022, 03:34:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 06, 2022, 03:32:58 PM

The building evaporators are on the fritz apparently so both my ACs are down right now.

It's not too heinous yet.

My friend is making her first big cost/investment in her house today - a brand new AC unit for $10K.  She's stressed for some reason.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 06, 2022, 04:07:54 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 06, 2022, 03:31:07 PM

"Hope is not a strategery."
-George W. Bush

Some had to write that for him..

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 06, 2022, 06:44:39 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 06, 2022, 03:33:27 PM

I had to share this, as you guys will like it.  Listening to Sam Harris' podcast, on Biden's speaking:  it's like your mom doing parkour. 

don't want to know what parkour is

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on July 06, 2022, 11:35:02 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 06, 2022, 04:07:54 PM

Some had to write that for him..

I don't know....he was pretty f**king stupid. I'm going to go with he thought it up all on his stupid own off the top of his stupid dome. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on July 06, 2022, 11:37:22 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on July 04, 2022, 09:31:43 AM

😂😂😂

hope not. Flying Delta tomorrow.  West Palm Beach to Detroit so Delta hub to Delta hub and early in the day. 
going to get out of this suffocating humidity for a week and enjoy the cool crisp air of northern Michigan

try to hit up Supino's in the Eastern Market in Detroit before you go if you've never been. Absolutely phenomenal pizza. Better than any pizza I've ever had pretty much anywhere in the entire US aside from maybe Lucali's in Brooklyn. Those two are tied for me. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2022, 05:31:19 AM

So, a fan blade broke off in the water chiller so we have no AC for 3-5 days.  Looking for a place to stay in the mountains somewhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 07, 2022, 06:42:46 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on July 06, 2022, 11:37:22 PM

try to hit up Supino's in the Eastern Market in Detroit before you go if you've never been. Absolutely phenomenal pizza. Better than any pizza I've ever had pretty much anywhere in the entire US aside from maybe Lucali's in Brooklyn. Those two are tied for me.

Having my morning coffee here In Charlevoix- beautiful 62!   
When we drove away from Metro- stopped in auburn hills and had Buddy’s Pizza.  Damn did I miss that.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on July 07, 2022, 07:01:44 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on July 07, 2022, 06:42:46 AM

Having my morning coffee here In Charlevoix- beautiful 62! 
When we drove away from Metro- stopped in auburn hills and had Buddy’s Pizza.  Damn did I miss that. 

I used to spend some time in Charlevoix in the Summer and bow hunting in the Fall.  Still have family there that we visit occasionally.  Used to love watching the Michigan v. Sparty game at the Townhouse. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2022, 07:11:07 AM

We stayed a couple nights in Traverse City a while back, that area of Michigan is pretty nice ... in summer.

Also stayed three nights in Marquette on the waterfront, another nice city, in summer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on July 07, 2022, 03:52:36 PM

I could never understand living up there.  I had to go up once in November, and the wind off the lake touches everything.  You basically spend 9 months of the year in bitter cold, and the 3 great months are overrun by tourists

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on July 07, 2022, 06:28:20 PM

just saw that James Caan passed away today at the age of 82. Hell of an actor, he's in two of the best movies ever imo- The Godfather and Brian's Song. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2022, 10:34:54 AM

The evaporator is still out, several more days to repair apparently.  So, we're off to Asheville for two nights.

They have rain in their forecast unfortunately, but it's cooler, and they have AC.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2022, 11:43:11 AM

Centennial Yards megaproject vows to be mostly complete for World Cup | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/centennial-yards-development-mostly-complete-world-cup?fbclid=IwAR1CcQ-D4w3GSHUGKJjeedQoKfLGixlRO0Pr6EdWZb7zVjln6tGdFQDZews)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 08, 2022, 01:48:00 PM

White Liberal ladies invent the concept of marriage; seemingly unaware that it already exists. 


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FXBmvuIUUAEkh-G?format=jpg&name=small)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2022, 07:00:28 PM

Asheville is full of homeless beggars 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on July 08, 2022, 09:15:46 PM

Better than those gainfully employed homeless

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 08, 2022, 11:59:33 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on July 08, 2022, 01:48:00 PM

White Liberal ladies invent the concept of marriage; seemingly unaware that it already exists.


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FXBmvuIUUAEkh-G?format=jpg&name=small)

"White Liberal ladies" huh?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2022, 08:28:11 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 08, 2022, 11:59:33 PM

"White Liberal ladies" huh?

Probably militant too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2022, 08:55:50 AM

Catching up on the news from this week. Of course we all know what happened in Highland Park, IL on Monday. Terrible act. Did not know that the VP was in town to speak on Tuesday.

She did not travel a little further to the South to talk to the people City that had more mass shootings and more dead. 68 injured, 8 dead.

Chicago's 4th of July weekend death toll surpassed the Highland Park shooting. 'I thought there would be more outcry,' Chicago resident says | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/09/us/chicago-residents-holiday-weekend-shootings-reaj/index.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2022, 08:59:13 AM

Quote from: ELA on July 08, 2022, 09:15:46 PM

Better than those gainfully employed homeless

This is a real, and true, problem. We have a major affordable housing shortage in this country. I really wish "we" would do a better job of taking care of our own here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 09, 2022, 09:40:16 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2022, 08:28:11 AM

Probably militant too.

Imaginary, as well. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 09, 2022, 09:44:14 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2022, 08:59:13 AM

This is a real, and true, problem. We have a major affordable housing shortage in this country. I really wish "we" would do a better job of taking care of our own here.

With that, I wonder if this is just an end game of really, really efficent markets.

It doesn't pay to build new affordable housing. Institutions with low barriers to entry can scoop up a lot of property. Plus everyone and they G-D mother is looking to get into having rental properties for passive income. Unfortunate times.

(If you can't tell, I've been somewhat passively looking to buy for a bit, and also am about to be trapped in an apartment that's good, not ideal, by rising rents)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2022, 10:13:33 AM

I'm working on an affordable housing project in Elgin, IL.

Elgin is not a great place for the most part, and even there we are getting all kinds of roadblocks.

We've been at it for 2.5 years, and haven't even gotten to a public meeting.

The City is making this close to impossible. I just think they don't want it. We are doing everything they ask, and the goalposts keep moving.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 09, 2022, 12:03:52 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2022, 10:13:33 AM

I'm working on an affordable housing project in Elgin, IL.

Elgin is not a great place for the most part, and even there we are getting all kinds of roadblocks.

We've been at it for 2.5 years, and haven't even gotten to a public meeting.

The City is making this close to impossible. I just think they don't want it. We are doing everything they ask, and the goalposts keep moving.

How do you mean not a great place?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2022, 12:20:26 PM

There are a lot of areas there with high crime and such. They have a riverboat casino that attracts a lot of riff raff. Infrastructure is crumbling. It's not easy to get to and there is a lot of traffic.

It's similar to a lot of the outlier cities outside of Chicago. Waukegan, Aurora, Joliet, etc.

Some nice spots, and some not so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on July 09, 2022, 09:11:00 PM

Fortunately, knock on wood, none of my family is dependent on life-saving drugs. So I don't follow the ins and outs of it closely. But can someone give me a cliff note version of what Mark Cuban is doing with his company? It seems like he is somehow both making money, and creating an affordable drug marketplace.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 09, 2022, 09:40:27 PM

Quote from: ELA on July 09, 2022, 09:11:00 PM

Fortunately, knock on wood, none of my family is dependent on life-saving drugs. So I don't follow the ins and outs of it closely. But can someone give me a cliff note version of what Mark Cuban is doing with his company? It seems like he is somehow both making money, and creating an affordable drug marketplace.

https://costplusdrugs.com/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on July 09, 2022, 09:59:25 PM

Yes, I know the site, I'm just curious what the business plan is.  He's not running it as a charity. So how is he able to do this? This seems beyond coming through the governmental red tape

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 09, 2022, 10:26:02 PM

Quote from: ELA on July 09, 2022, 09:59:25 PM

Yes, I know the site, I'm just curious what the business plan is.  He's not running it as a charity. So how is he able to do this? This seems beyond coming through the governmental red tape

Yep You would think he will put a lot of pressure on others to do the same thing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on July 09, 2022, 10:54:18 PM

My initial take is there is a lot of money to be made of you are willing to (a) fuck the government, and (b) not take the most money you could make, in the name of public good.  Granted Cuban is one of the few who could make that bargain, and thread that needle?

Plenty who are willing to take a or b

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 10, 2022, 03:51:14 PM

Man, we used to have a tom of fun in these neighborhoods. Nothing ever happened.

4 shot on River North street corner; 2 more reported shot in Gold Coast; Woman shot on Near North Side - CWB Chicago (https://cwbchicago.com/2022/07/4-shot-on-river-north-street-corner-2-more-reported-shot-in-gold-coast-woman-shot-on-near-north-side.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 10, 2022, 04:03:59 PM

The govt interfering with housing in the first place is responsible for much of the housing in the first place. 

Not just the federal govt. state govts, city govt, etc. 

The only thing the govt should be doing IMO is making sure the market forces aren’t being artificially manipulated. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 10, 2022, 05:20:40 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2022, 10:13:33 AM

I'm working on an affordable housing project in Elgin, IL.

Phoenix is doing the opposite.  There's no affordable housing, and all they're doing is building new, luxury apartments.  It's so backwards.  I think 3 of the top 5 cities that have built the most new luxury apartments in the country this year are all Phoenix suburbs:  Gilbert, Chandler, and Scottsdale.
PHOENIX DOESN'T NEED ANY MORE LUXURY APARTMENTS, PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD THE EXISTING ONES!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 10, 2022, 05:22:19 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 10, 2022, 03:51:14 PM

Man, we used to have a tom of fun in these neighborhoods. Nothing ever happened.

4 shot on River North street corner; 2 more reported shot in Gold Coast; Woman shot on Near North Side - CWB Chicago (https://cwbchicago.com/2022/07/4-shot-on-river-north-street-corner-2-more-reported-shot-in-gold-coast-woman-shot-on-near-north-side.html)

Many neighborhoods didn't have that golden age to begin with.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 10, 2022, 08:48:24 PM

just one more way to rank CFB programs by NFL success.............

College football programs with the most Super Bowl players all time, ranked

https://www2.247sports.com/college-programs-with-the-most-super-bowl-players-ranked/43?utm_subid=10765270&utm_adset=4493404&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=1492248&ftag=ACQ-07-10adj1f&fbclid=IwAR2M5NSQkXaPdpYf99p6p4J77h5hc_v4-PgWtcxFwq-O-4bkawAbUeQevnY (https://www2.247sports.com/college-programs-with-the-most-super-bowl-players-ranked/43?utm_subid=10765270&utm_adset=4493404&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=1492248&ftag=ACQ-07-10adj1f&fbclid=IwAR2M5NSQkXaPdpYf99p6p4J77h5hc_v4-PgWtcxFwq-O-4bkawAbUeQevnY)

1 (TIE). Michigan

No. of Super Bowl appearances by alums: 122
1 (TIE). Miami

No. of Super Bowl appearances by alums: 122


10. Nebraska

No. of Super Bowl appearances by alums: 100

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 10, 2022, 11:17:18 PM

Quote from: Gigem on July 10, 2022, 04:03:59 PM

The govt interfering with housing in the first place is responsible for much of the housing in the first place.

Not just the federal govt. state govts, city govt, etc.

The only thing the govt should be doing IMO is making sure the market forces aren’t being artificially manipulated.

First things first, roll back the mortgage interest deduction.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 11, 2022, 01:03:46 AM

Fine by me. I never used it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 11, 2022, 07:22:30 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 10, 2022, 11:17:18 PM

First things first, roll back the mortgage interest deduction.

I suppose you don't remember a time when ALL interest was deductible?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 11, 2022, 07:28:03 AM

Really?

(https://i.imgur.com/36GBAM3.png)

Who controls the house, senate and white house?

Oh...

(https://i.imgur.com/YZMj8lB.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 11, 2022, 09:14:48 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 11, 2022, 07:22:30 AM

I suppose you don't remember a time when ALL interest was deductible?

I don’t because I can’t. Didn’t exist when that was the case.

Man, that would be so market warping these days. It probably was back then too, but now …

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 11, 2022, 09:21:16 AM

good for the lenders

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on July 11, 2022, 09:25:05 AM

The last hike in the standard deduction made the mortgage interest deduction moot for us.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 11, 2022, 09:25:52 AM

gotta get a 10 year instead of the 30 year

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on July 11, 2022, 09:32:07 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 11, 2022, 09:25:52 AM

gotta get a 10 year instead of the 30 year

That was after a refi to a 15 year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 11, 2022, 10:34:49 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on July 11, 2022, 09:25:05 AM

The last hike in the standard deduction made the mortgage interest deduction moot for us.

Same.

Property taxes are super low in FL, and no state income tax, so we can't get anywhere near $10K anymore.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 11, 2022, 10:35:38 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 11, 2022, 09:14:48 AM

I don’t because I can’t. Didn’t exist when that was the case.

Man, that would be so market warping these days. It probably was back then too, but now …

I used to deduct car payment interest.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 11, 2022, 11:02:40 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 11, 2022, 10:34:49 AM

Same.

Property taxes are super low in FL, and no state income tax, so we can't get anywhere near $10K anymore.

No state income tax in Texas either, but property taxes are super high IMO. 

How does Florida compensate for the lack of income tax? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 11, 2022, 11:33:17 AM

Tourism, Mickey Mouse, etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 11, 2022, 12:54:07 PM

The budget totals $109.9 billion and includes a record $1.24 billion in tax relief for Floridians. Florida will have historic reserves at the end of Fiscal Year 2021-2022, totaling more than $20 billion, and reserves for Fiscal Year 2022-2023 are estimated to begin the year at more than $16 billion.Jun 2, 2022


 (https://www.flgov.com/2022/06/02/governor-ron-desantis-signs-the-freedom-first-budget-providing-historic-investments-to-support-our-communities-promote-education-and-protect-the-environment/#:~:text=The budget totals %24109.9 billion,at more than %2416 billion.)
Governor Ron DeSantis Signs the Freedom First Budget ...
 (https://www.flgov.com/2022/06/02/governor-ron-desantis-signs-the-freedom-first-budget-providing-historic-investments-to-support-our-communities-promote-education-and-protect-the-environment/#:~:text=The budget totals %24109.9 billion,at more than %2416 billion.)


The budget for the state of Florida.  109.9 billion seems kinda low.  

The vast majority of property taxes paid in Tx are for the school district, and then the city taxes.  Of course we have sales tax, 6.25% goes to the state and then up to 1-1.75% (I think the highest rate is 8.25%) goes to the cities and other entities.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 11, 2022, 12:56:48 PM

$248.6 billion

Texas's current budget
Texas enacted its FY 2022-2023 biennial budget in June 2021. The enacted budget included $248.6 billion in total spending and $116.4 billion in general fund spending over the two-year period.

 (https://www.urban.org/policy-centers/cross-center-initiatives/state-and-local-finance-initiative/projects/state-fiscal-briefs/texas#:~:text=Texas's current)
Texas - Urban Institute
 (https://www.urban.org/policy-centers/cross-center-initiatives/state-and-local-finance-initiative/projects/state-fiscal-briefs/texas#:~:text=Texas's current)



I know Tx doesn't have double the population of Florida, makes me wonder about the wide discrepancy in the state budgets.  


Wait....scratch that.  I forgot that the budget in Tx is set for two years, so if you halve that 248 billion you end up with about 124 billion per year, not much more than Florida despite having quite a bit more population.  About 5 million more people IIRC.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 11, 2022, 01:57:05 PM

Iowa has a state income tax of around 6%

but since running in the black for a few years (COVID $$$)

the Governor is cutting the income tax from 6% to 3.9%

hurray I get a 2% raise!!!

She's also eliminating the tax on retirement income!!!

I'm still moving south because of the ice and snow and brutal sub zero temps

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 11, 2022, 02:23:00 PM

We hit 105 deg F yesterday.  And it gets hot early in the morning, peaks about 2-3 PM, and stays hot all night as well.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 11, 2022, 02:33:20 PM

Texas does have an income tax but not on individuals just businesses in the name of a Franchise tax which is based on income

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on July 11, 2022, 04:43:35 PM

Biden tossing the Saudis a bone?

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/34227586/us-department-justice-investigating-pga-tour-behavior-towards-liv-golf

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 11, 2022, 05:51:01 PM

It was 131 in my car yesterday.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 11, 2022, 06:30:20 PM

hope you weren't in there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on July 11, 2022, 10:42:30 PM

I find the LIV v PGA story to fascinating.   It's obviously hard to 'set aside' the source of the funding for LIV, but there's such unanimity by the golf media to assail LIV at every turn.  Perhaps, I'm not finding the contrarian(s) in this.   Any ways, it is a fascinating storyline, how this LIV tour will impact golf.

The PGA has by and large been a 'closed shop'/guild type industry w/o any serious competitors within the U.S.     It does remind me more of the failed Federal League of 1914-1915, fairly similar idea,  throw around $ to attract the top talent from the A.L. and N.L. at the time.  For a large number of reasons, the league didn't survive.    Flags fly forever is the old yarn about pennant winners.  Funny, its pretty damn hard to find the 1914 Indianapolis Hooisers and 1915 Chicago Whalers pennant flying anywhere today.   Great trivia question: The Whalers were the first 'major league' team to play at Wrigley Field, it was built for the Whalers.   Of course the Federal League did give us SCOTUS' decision to exempt MLB from the Sherman Antitrust Act in a 1915 lawsuit.  I think about six future HOFers ended up playing games in the Federal League.

I use the Federal League and not the USFL as the most apt comparison because this was a third major league that attempted to play its season at the same time as the A.L. and N.L. and in or very near the very same markets.   USFL of course had its own problems, wondering if LIV's resources are as infinite as some suggest.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2022, 09:29:55 AM

the PGA has a long history of issues with some of it's top players

if the PGA would have treated it's members better all along this might not have been a big deal

but, I'm with Barkley, you throw billions at me and I'm gonna jump - don't care where the money came from

Tiger has enough money that a few more billion really won't matter

Phil does too, but his relationship with the PGA has been much more rocky.  Most of that is on him, but.........

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on July 12, 2022, 09:41:33 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 12, 2022, 09:29:55 AM

Tiger has enough money that a few more billion really won't matter

Phil does too, but his relationship with the PGA has been much more rocky.  Most of that is on him, but.........

Phil has lost a good chunk of his money too

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2022, 09:52:00 AM

yup, can never have enough when gambling

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on July 12, 2022, 10:00:39 AM

Phil needed the money because he's eyeball deep in gambling debt.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 12, 2022, 10:21:48 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 11, 2022, 10:35:38 AM

I used to deduct car payment interest.

When they quit allowing deductions for auto load interest, I began taking out home equity loans to buy cars. Got a lower rate and was still able to decuct the interest. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2022, 11:04:47 AM

me too

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2022, 11:08:53 AM

SEC football: Every team's road record the last five seasons (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/SEC-football-Every-teams-road-record-the-last-five-seasons-189595177/#189595177_12)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2022, 01:15:18 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 12, 2022, 10:21:48 AM

When they quit allowing deductions for auto load interest, I began taking out home equity loans to buy cars. Got a lower rate and was still able to decuct the interest.

Yep.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2022, 02:14:50 PM

Autoloaders are the best.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 12, 2022, 02:40:28 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 12, 2022, 10:21:48 AM

When they quit allowing deductions for auto load interest, I began taking out home equity loans to buy cars. Got a lower rate and was still able to decuct the interest.

I’m some ways, this feels like another reason to roll that back, but I can’t put a finger on why in a well-rounded way. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2022, 02:56:19 PM

I could get behind eliminating ALL deductions and loopholes, and then have everyone pay 10-12 percent, regardless of income and regardless of the source (with some exceptions, like a pre-existing Roth IRA).

But, nobody would ever propose this, because the people in power are mostly beholden to the mega-rich, and therefore highly compromised. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 12, 2022, 03:12:26 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2022, 02:56:19 PM

I could get behind eliminating ALL deductions and loopholes, and then have everyone pay 10-12 percent, regardless of income and regardless of the source (with some exceptions, like a pre-existing Roth IRA).

But, nobody would ever propose this, because the people in power are mostly beholden to the mega-rich, and therefore highly compromised.

do you have any idea how many folks would be out of work

it will never happen but I do like the idea

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2022, 03:12:30 PM

The mega-rich have no need for income.  They can easily avoid any income tax.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 12, 2022, 03:18:44 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 12, 2022, 03:12:30 PM

The mega-rich have no need for income.  They can easily avoid any income tax.

The mega-rich tend to have corporate holdings, and those corporations are being taxed at least twice, and depending on the industry's regulations, sometimes many more times than that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2022, 03:24:13 PM

They often have stock holdings that pay no dividends.  They can easily borrow on those holdings and have plenty of money, but no "income".  This is the main way they avoid income tax, they simply don't have income.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 12, 2022, 03:35:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 12, 2022, 03:24:13 PM

They often have stock holdings that pay no dividends.  They can easily borrow on those holdings and have plenty of money, but no "income".  This is the main way they avoid income tax, they simply don't have income.

The value of the holdings themselves is determined by the value placed by the market on that company's retained earnings.  The value of retained earnings is impacted directly by the corporate taxes paid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2022, 03:42:01 PM

I figure customers pay corporate taxes anyway, just like any business expense.  Either way, they can borrow indefinitely, almost.

Musk sold a slew of Tesla stock in part to pay for Twitter, the deal that may have fallen through.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2022, 03:44:43 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/V9m1U2E.png)

How one might define "best" obviously is variable.  I personally would list something like Kansas or one of the Academies as "best".  If you could coacj, where would you like most to coach?  Stanford would make my list.  Washington?  UCSD?  Eastern Michigan?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 12, 2022, 03:45:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 12, 2022, 03:24:13 PM

They often have stock holdings that pay no dividends.  They can easily borrow on those holdings and have plenty of money, but no "income".  This is the main way they avoid income tax, they simply don't have income.

Ive read this in several places but this seems like short term solution

they cant borrow forever cause sooner or later those loans will need to be repaid

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2022, 03:52:16 PM

Well, let's imagine I own say $3 billion in stock, which is not unheard of, but I'd call that mega wealthy.  Let's say I need $20 million a year in cash to live. Anything spent over that is buying assets, like another Gulfstream.  So, how many years can I borrow $20 million, pay the interest, and not run out?  This presumes the $3 billion doesn't appreciate, which generally it does.

And maybe every so often I sell some stock and pay it all back and taxes too.  Maybe every ten years I have an enormous tax bill.  Or not.

A feller can live pretty well on $20 million a year.  It's been done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2022, 04:55:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 12, 2022, 03:44:43 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/V9m1U2E.png)

How one might define "best" obviously is variable.  I personally would list something like Kansas or one of the Academies as "best".  If you could coacj, where would you like most to coach?  Stanford would make my list.  Washington?  UCSD?  Eastern Michigan?

the list above is tied heavily to recruiting, which is what most coaches with aspirations desire
I'd be content with a low pressure job in a great climate/city.
a coordinator position would be fine for me - even less pressure and plenty of money for a poor dirt farmer
Stanford and Cal Berkeley would be on top of my list - I like the Bay area
Perhaps UNC, NC State or Virginia on the East side

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 12, 2022, 05:02:08 PM

San Diego State or U of Hawaii would be my jam.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 12, 2022, 05:07:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 12, 2022, 03:52:16 PM

Well, let's imagine I own say $3 billion in stock, which is not unheard of, but I'd call that mega wealthy.  Let's say I need $20 million a year in cash to live. Anything spent over that is buying assets, like another Gulfstream.  So, how many years can I borrow $20 million, pay the interest, and not run out?  This presumes the $3 billion doesn't appreciate, which generally it does.

And maybe every so often I sell some stock and pay it all back and taxes too.  Maybe every ten years I have an enormous tax bill.  Or not.

A feller can live pretty well on $20 million a year.  It's been done.

If you have $3 billion dollars you can just spend $20 million a year for 150 years and not take out a loan

there is no tax savings there


taking out $20 million a year from a loan is not avoiding taxes

would be better of investing in tax free bonds etc

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2022, 05:15:37 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 12, 2022, 03:12:26 PM

do you have any idea how many folks would be out of work

it will never happen but I do like the idea

They would still have to pay taxes on their handouts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 12, 2022, 05:29:40 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 12, 2022, 03:44:43 PM

[img width=499.988 height=499.988]https://i.imgur.com/V9m1U2E.png[/img]

How one might define "best" obviously is variable.  I personally would list something like Kansas or one of the Academies as "best".  If you could coacj, where would you like most to coach?  Stanford would make my list.  Washington?  UCSD?  Eastern Michigan?

This list just ebbs and flows with who is good.  20 years ago, Georgia, A&M, Clemson, and Alabama wouldn't be on it.  Some schools stay on it, but half of it is cyclical.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2022, 05:46:49 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 12, 2022, 05:07:31 PM

If you have $3 billion dollars you can just spend $20 million a year for 150 years and not take out a loan

there is no tax savings there


taking out $20 million a year from a loan is not avoiding taxes

would be better of investing in tax free bonds etc

If you want to spend your $3 billion, you have to sell stock and then pay taxes on that gain.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 12, 2022, 05:55:00 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 12, 2022, 05:46:49 PM

If you want to spend your $3 billion, you have to sell stock and then pay taxes on that gain.

If you want to pay off your numerous $20M loans against the value of your holdings, you're going to have to sell stock and pay taxes anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2022, 06:09:53 PM

Not in this lifetime, and if the stock appreciates faster than you accrue interest charges ....

It's simply a way to avoid income, and thus income taxes, forever.

The wealthy may avoid $163 billion in annual taxes. How they do it (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/20/the-wealthy-may-avoid-163-billion-in-annual-taxes-how-they-do-it-.html)

Another popular tactic, asset-based lending, allows the wealthy to borrow money against their portfolio (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/13/portfolio-loans-can-be-one-way-to-make-debt-work-in-your-favor.html) when they need cash, eliminating the need to sell appreciated investments that may incur gains. Plus, the portfolio loan isn’t taxable or reported on a tax return. 

“That’s probably one of the most prominent ways they are able to keep that income off the purview of the IRS,” Muhammad said.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 12, 2022, 06:29:26 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 12, 2022, 05:46:49 PM

If you want to spend your $3 billion, you have to sell stock and then pay taxes on that gain.

how do these loans get paid back

do you really thing this guy would just pop by the bank and get another $20 million year after year and never have to pay it off

all Im saying rather then taking on a liability why not just cut out the middle man and draw down your funds

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 12, 2022, 06:31:28 PM

It only works in a turbocharged market with extremely low interest rates.

All such bubbles burst.

It's not a longterm strategy and it will only defer tax payments, not avoid them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 12, 2022, 06:34:30 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 12, 2022, 06:29:26 PM

how do these loans get paid back

do you really thing this guy would just pop by the bank and get another $20 million year after year and never have to pay it off

all Im saying rather then taking on a liability why not just cut out the middle man and draw down your funds

Drawing down your funds involves selling assets which incurs taxes.  Loan income is non-taxable because it's not actually income, you have to pay interest.  When interest rates are at historical lows, and markets like real estate and some tech companies are at all time highs, then the interest is lower than the taxes you'd pay in liquidating.

But it's only a deferment strategy.  And in fact, taxes are still being paid because there has to be some income to pay off the interest.  The taxes simply aren't as high as they would be for capital gains.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 12, 2022, 06:34:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 12, 2022, 06:09:53 PM

Not in this lifetime, and if the stock appreciates faster than you accrue interest charges ....

It's simply a way to avoid income, and thus income taxes, forever.

The wealthy may avoid $163 billion in annual taxes. How they do it (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/20/the-wealthy-may-avoid-163-billion-in-annual-taxes-how-they-do-it-.html)

Another popular tactic, asset-based lending, allows the wealthy to borrow money against their portfolio (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/13/portfolio-loans-can-be-one-way-to-make-debt-work-in-your-favor.html) when they need cash, eliminating the need to sell appreciated investments that may incur gains. Plus, the portfolio loan isn’t taxable or reported on a tax return.

“That’s probably one of the most prominent ways they are able to keep that income off the purview of the IRS,” Muhammad said.

this is exactly what Im talking about

yes you can borrow money and the lending institution will attach to whatever collateral you offer

pretty soon yourr going to have to start paying this back

it is a short term solution but in the long run you will end up selling investments and paying taxes on those gains

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2022, 06:35:44 PM

It's a choice between paying some interest, which has been quite low on loans, and paying the tax man.  And yeah, these folks get loans easily because they have collateral which has a clear market value.  Here is the difference:

Sell $20 million in stock, pay capital gains taxes of nearly $7 million Federal lon LT cap gains, plus whatever the state charges.

Borrow $20 million at 1% interest, pay $200,000 a year to carry the loan.

It's called margin borrowing, it's pretty easy to do.  Very easy in fact, though I would be paying more like 6% at my loan size.

Meanwhile, you still own the stock which may well appreciate over time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 12, 2022, 06:51:31 PM

In your example you say selling $20 million of investments would cause a capital gains tax of $7 million

using a 20% tax rate for capital gains if your gain was the whole $20 million your tax would be $4 million dollars and its very unlikely all of the $20 million would be a gain

and yes paying interest is cheaper but again how many years can you go not paying it back and increasing the lean the loan institution has on you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2022, 07:13:10 PM

A margin loan need never be paid back barring a margin call.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 12, 2022, 07:21:31 PM

Yup it's all great-- right up to the point when the asset depreciates.  Or in some cases, doesn't appreciate in line with expected market values.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2022, 07:49:24 PM

There is a 3.8% Medicare tax plus state on large numbers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2022, 08:56:22 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 12, 2022, 05:02:08 PM

San Diego State or U of Hawaii would be my jam.

was staying with P5 but those would be on my list

not sure about Hawaii, too many long flights

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2022, 08:58:13 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 12, 2022, 06:51:31 PM

In your example you say selling $20 million of investments would cause a capital gains tax of $7 million

using a 20% tax rate for capital gains if your gain was the whole $20 million your tax would be $4 million dollars and its very unlikely all of the $20 million would be a gain

and yes paying interest is cheaper but again how many years can you go not paying it back and increasing the lean the loan institution has on you

I let my money guy worry about these things in the middle of the night
he's smart and he thinks about it WAY TOO MUCH

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 12, 2022, 09:27:42 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2022, 02:56:19 PM

I could get behind eliminating ALL deductions and loopholes, and then have everyone pay 10-12 percent, regardless of income and regardless of the source (with some exceptions, like a pre-existing Roth IRA).

But, nobody would ever propose this, because the people in power are mostly beholden to the mega-rich, and therefore highly compromised.

I'm partial to the marginal approach, but would definitely be behind the shuttering of deductions/loopholes. 

I'm guessing there's an interesting set of people who oppose this. Businesses want the encouragement to provide borrowable money, and loopholes help there. A lotta people have kids and houses, and those groups would oppose some of those rollbacks. And then there's the tax preparation lobby, which opposes things like allowing the government to do a lot of the math for you. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2022, 09:43:28 PM

https://twitter.com/Fran_Tarkenton/status/1546636403274129410/photo/1

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 12, 2022, 10:23:10 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 12, 2022, 08:58:13 PM

I let my money guy worry about these things in the middle of the night
he's smart and he thinks about it WAY TOO MUCH

money guy ha

you mean the local bartender

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2022, 10:25:45 PM

well, I give the local bartenders more money than my money guy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2022, 06:47:41 AM

Quote from: utee94 on July 12, 2022, 07:21:31 PM

Yup it's all great-- right up to the point when the asset depreciates.  Or in some cases, doesn't appreciate in line with expected market values.

If you have billions in stock in say Tesla, you might have to put up more stock to cover the margin, and your cost basis is near zero.  Your heirs might get less than otherwise, depending on how the stock moves, but we're talking billions.

Whether anyone likes this device or not, it's how many many billionaires fund their lifestyles.  And at times they may sell some stock/land/assets to make some large donation or fund a charitable trust.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2022, 06:48:23 AM

The charitable trust thing is a good idea if you have some money to set aside for future donations and are in an unusually high income year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2022, 07:40:24 AM

I used this cap gains calculator to get nearly $7 million in taxes on a $20 million sale (near zero cost basis).

2022 Capital Gains Tax Calculator - See What You'll Owe - SmartAsset (https://smartasset.com/investing/capital-gains-tax-calculator#MY5QcQQVrm)

There is that 3.8% Medicare add on plus NJ state tax.  If a wealthy person chooses not to pay income tax, they can, and they often do.  It's an entirely legal dodge.

Fortunately I don't have this problem, I just pay income tax and have used the standard deduction the past three years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2022, 07:52:39 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/EkHnwDc.png)

First time a Ford class on top and Nimitz class bottom operated together.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 13, 2022, 08:49:22 AM

SO....
LeBron James critical of US efforts to free Brittney Griner
In a trailer for the latest episode of his show "The Shop," LeBron James said if he was in Brittney Griner's situation, he would have doubts about wanting to return to the U.S. (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/wnba/2022/07/12/lebron-james-discusses-brittney-griner-detainment-russia-the-shop/10041273002/) after being a detainee in Russia. The episode of "The Shop" premieres Friday at noon ET on the Uninterrupted YouTube channel.

"Over 110 days, now how could she feel like America has her back?" James said. "I would be feeling like, 'Do I even want to go back to America?'"
Last month, the Los Angles Lakers star shared a Twitter post urging President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris do what they can to bring Griner back home. Griner has been incarcerated in Russia since Feb. 17 after law enforcement arrested her at an airport outside of Moscow due to possession of vape cartridges containing cannabis oil in her bag. Griner has since pleaded guilty to the charges – standard procedure in a country where virtually all trials result in convictions – and wrote a handwritten letter to the White House pleading for help.



Maybe Lebron should go over there and negotiate it himself.And he could fire up a blunt in the process

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 13, 2022, 09:27:25 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 13, 2022, 06:47:41 AM

If you have billions in stock in say Tesla, you might have to put up more stock to cover the margin, and your cost basis is near zero.  Your heirs might get less than otherwise, depending on how the stock moves, but we're talking billions.

Whether anyone likes this device or not, it's how many many billionaires fund their lifestyles.  And at times they may sell some stock/land/assets to make some large donation or fund a charitable trust.

Tesla took a big nosedive the moment Musk announced Twitter.  If he were extended on margin at that point, it no doubt became an issue for him.

And yes, of course billionaires can extend themselves further than normal people.  But billionaires spend more than normal people, too. 

This is a deferment mechanism, and it only works like it is currently, due to historically low interest rates and historically hot markets in some commodities.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 13, 2022, 09:32:29 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 13, 2022, 06:48:23 AM

The charitable trust thing is a good idea if you have some money to set aside for future donations and are in an unusually high income year.

especially if you can scrape cash off the charitable contribution to spend

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2022, 09:36:42 AM

I have a charitable trust, I don't see a viable way to scrape cash off it.  They are pretty sticky about who can get a donation.

I got paid two years of salary in one my last year working.  My money guy explained this concept to me and we set it up, has been marvelous, especially now that donations aren't deductable any more unless you write off a lot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2022, 09:37:11 AM

Inflation rose 9.1% in June, even more than expected, as price pressures intensify (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/13/inflation-rose-9point1percent-in-june-even-more-than-expected-as-price-pressures-intensify.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 13, 2022, 09:55:39 AM

the most in 40 years

back when I was in College and the future looked bleak for young people

it turned out OK

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2022, 09:56:34 AM

I started my job in 1980 and felt lucky to find one.  I applied for a loan on a condo a year later and the best rate I could find was 17.5% on a 30 year fixed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 13, 2022, 09:57:13 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 13, 2022, 09:36:42 AM

I have a charitable trust, I don't see a viable way to scrape cash off it.  They are pretty sticky about who can get a donation.

I'm guessing billionaire donors are a bit more slippery

but that's just the peasants being cynical 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 13, 2022, 10:26:44 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 13, 2022, 07:40:24 AM

I used this cap gains calculator to get nearly $7 million in taxes on a $20 million sale (near zero cost basis).

2022 Capital Gains Tax Calculator - See What You'll Owe - SmartAsset (https://smartasset.com/investing/capital-gains-tax-calculator#MY5QcQQVrm)

There is that 3.8% Medicare add on plus NJ state tax.  If a wealthy person chooses not to pay income tax, they can, and they often do.  It's an entirely legal dodge.

Fortunately I don't have this problem, I just pay income tax and have used the standard deduction the past three years.

I used you calculator above and dont come up anywhere near $7 million

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2022, 11:08:34 AM

 I get $6.858 million, once again.  I set the state to NJ.

That sounds about right to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 13, 2022, 11:16:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 13, 2022, 11:08:34 AM

I get $6.858 million, once again.  I set the state to NJ.

That sounds about right to me.

do you really think a multi millionaire would live in New Jersey

Thats the tax capital of the world

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 13, 2022, 11:18:53 AM

they probably aren't moving to South Dakota

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 13, 2022, 11:19:42 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 13, 2022, 11:16:14 AM

do you really think a multi millionaire would live in New Jersey

Thats the tax capital of the world

Where they live and where they live on a form are rarely the same place.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 13, 2022, 11:20:36 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 13, 2022, 11:18:53 AM

they probably aren't moving to South Dakota

I'm assuming it's like corporations and they can claim they live wherever.  Multi-billionaires can have residences all over.  You claim the one in the most tax-friendly state as your primary and go from there, right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2022, 11:29:04 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 13, 2022, 11:16:14 AM

do you really think a multi millionaire would live in New Jersey

Thats the tax capital of the world

They might if they had no income.  Pick a state, another state, and I'll run it.  We'll go with Texas and no income tax.

$4.735 million.  That is a lot more than paying a low interest loan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 13, 2022, 11:31:07 AM

Quote from: utee94 on July 13, 2022, 11:20:36 AM

I'm assuming it's like corporations and they can claim they live wherever.  Multi-billionaires can have residences all over.  You claim the one in the most tax-friendly state as your primary and go from there, right?

fine but you would not claim New Jersey

if you do you might as well just throw all your money out the window

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2022, 11:35:47 AM

You're supposed to live somewhere 6 months and a day, and get the DL and register to vote etc.  Nobody really checks of course, I had to show a bill to get my DL here.

But if you have no income, the only concerns are property and other taxes (which in NJ are bad).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 13, 2022, 11:38:50 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 13, 2022, 11:29:04 AM

They might if they had no income.  Pick a state, another state, and I'll run it.  We'll go with Texas and no income tax.

$4.735 million.  That is a lot more than paying a low interest loan.

my only point was its not gonna be $7 million closer to $4 million

this works great for year 1 year 2 and maybe year 3 but at some point you will have to belly up to the bar

its a short term deal

and then after paying off the interest you will still need to incur a $4 million tax bill for every year you did it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2022, 11:41:58 AM

It works for one's lifetime, which is why it's so popular.  There is no limit, short of a serious margin call, for billionaires.  And they might well clear the books every decade or so, I don't know.  I'm sure it varies, Musk sold a lot of Tesla this past year.

Obviously in recent history companies like Tesla pretty much went up in value with a few bumps so it really made sense.  That may not always happen.

My step son has a photo of him and Steve Wozniak.  I imagine Steve is sitting on a massive haul at near zero cost basis living in CA.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2022, 11:54:36 AM

Years ago I tried to calculate how much money AT I'd need a year to live a life I'd do had I the money, presuming I had whatever capital items already bought.  I came up with $20 million, it'd probably be 30 today.

One item I'd like is a personal daily chef, at least for dinner.  I'd have a secretary to take care of whatever I wanted to do.  I'd have a couple homes somewhere which would cost money to maintain no doubt a lot.  A personal trainer a few times a week.  Golf club membership somewhere swanky.  It adds up, especially when you pay people.

The thing is, I'm not sure I'd be any happier than I am.  I guess I could try it ...

I'm sure I'd have more expensive wine, but I get a kick out of finding a great wine value at Costco.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 13, 2022, 12:01:29 PM

Since I know CD loves lists, here's a list of the 30 best burgers in the US.

I've had exactly one of these burgers, and it was indeed very, very tasty.

https://www.thedaddest.com/trending/best-burgers-america-syn/?utm_campaign=Best%20Burgers%20JustinA0607%20V1%20OLDSTYLE%20phs7020%20cbr%20VV%3E14%20En%20-%20Unknown%20USA%20FB%20CBR&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook_Desktop_Feed&utm_content=23850884182530368&psl=i_589822&network_code=CBR&ppc=1&fbclid=IwAR0VtDbT6MsgmDqmQk0BpBzzfP8rvhg4K5s7BHc5TSFVyJVJ5pMW8oEOf4E

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 13, 2022, 12:23:26 PM

94 - there's like 4 places from Texas on that list and I call BS :017: . I'll give you Texicans the low/slow "Q" Market,but there are plenty of free ranging cattle farms here - many are Amish, where the grass is actually green from the cooler climes close to the Great Lakes. I know there is a Heck's Cafe in Cleveland since the early 50's and they buy their beef from such places.If I was facing the firing Squad tomorrow - I'd order as many of those as i could stuff down my gullet ;D .Wait until FF sees there are no Iowa joints on that list either. :-[

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on July 13, 2022, 12:44:12 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 13, 2022, 12:01:29 PM

Since I know CD loves lists, here's a list of the 30 best burgers in the US.

I've had exactly one of these burgers, and it was indeed very, very tasty.

https://www.thedaddest.com/trending/best-burgers-america-syn/?utm_campaign=Best%20Burgers%20JustinA0607%20V1%20OLDSTYLE%20phs7020%20cbr%20VV%3E14%20En%20-%20Unknown%20USA%20FB%20CBR&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook_Desktop_Feed&utm_content=23850884182530368&psl=i_589822&network_code=CBR&ppc=1&fbclid=IwAR0VtDbT6MsgmDqmQk0BpBzzfP8rvhg4K5s7BHc5TSFVyJVJ5pMW8oEOf4E

speaking of food/burgers....I'm going to Austin, TX for the first time ever in a few months for a week. Got any recs on food establishments lol. I'm excited just to try to the food lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 13, 2022, 12:47:09 PM

Let utee chaperone you around,he has plenty of time off coming

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 13, 2022, 01:30:33 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on July 13, 2022, 12:44:12 PM

speaking of food/burgers....I'm going to Austin, TX for the first time ever in a few months for a week. Got any recs on food establishments lol. I'm excited just to try to the food lol.

Sure I have lots of recs.  When are you coming?  What kind of foods do you like?  Anything specific you want to try? What part of town are you staying in and how far away are you willing/able to go, for meals?

Quote from: MrNubbz on July 13, 2022, 12:47:09 PM

Let utee chaperone you around,he has plenty of time off coming

Wait, do you know something I don't about my employment status?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 13, 2022, 01:35:25 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on July 13, 2022, 12:23:26 PM

94 - there's like 4 places from Texas on that list and I call BS :017: . I'll give you Texicans the low/slow "Q" Market,but there are plenty of free ranging cattle farms here - many are Amish, where the grass is actually green from the cooler climes close to the Great Lakes. I know there is a Heck's Cafe in Cleveland since the early 50's and they buy their beef from such places.If I was facing the firing Squad tomorrow - I'd order as many of those as i could stuff down my gullet ;D .Wait until FF sees there are no Iowa joints on that list either. :-[

Hey, take it up with the listmakers, I just posted the darn thing! :)

I will say that the one out of four Texas places on the list that I've tried, Chris Madrid's in San Antonio, makes a delicious burger.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 13, 2022, 03:15:57 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 13, 2022, 01:30:33 PM

Wait, do you know something I don't about my employment status?

Hell you're a Senior member and Mr Dell's Consigliere

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 13, 2022, 03:26:12 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on July 13, 2022, 03:15:57 PM

Hell you're a Senior member and Mr Dell's Consigliere

never let anyone know what youre thinking again

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 13, 2022, 08:12:38 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 13, 2022, 12:01:29 PM

Since I know CD loves lists, here's a list of the 30 best burgers in the US.

I've had exactly one of these burgers, and it was indeed very, very tasty.

https://www.thedaddest.com/trending/best-burgers-america-syn/?utm_campaign=Best%20Burgers%20JustinA0607%20V1%20OLDSTYLE%20phs7020%20cbr%20VV%3E14%20En%20-%20Unknown%20USA%20FB%20CBR&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook_Desktop_Feed&utm_content=23850884182530368&psl=i_589822&network_code=CBR&ppc=1&fbclid=IwAR0VtDbT6MsgmDqmQk0BpBzzfP8rvhg4K5s7BHc5TSFVyJVJ5pMW8oEOf4E

I am “ tied” with you Utee- had one from that list but it was excellent.    Makes me want to go on a burger tour!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 13, 2022, 08:46:46 PM

Richest People in the World......................................

5. Warren Buffett (U.S.)

CEO, Berkshire Hathaway

Age: 91
Net worth: $118 billion

A new tax?
Buffett has said he believes America's wealthiest should pay more in taxes. There are almost 30,000 families in the U.S. with assets of more than $100 million, Buffett's among them.


A newly proposed tax would also hit America's roughly 700 billionaires; these households would be subject to a new minimum tax of 20%, ensuring they don't pay lower tax rates than many lower- and middle-income Americans.



https://www2.cbsnews.com/richest-people-in-world-forbes/43?utm_subid=10613768&utm_adset=4369130&utm_campaign=1447268&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=referral&ftag=ACQ-07-10adj1f&fbclid=IwAR21gXDDy8zZCuFHJE31qbH3dVjDTzv0pHeM8EKeyWJqDY78xGVc-i2XlAc (https://www2.cbsnews.com/richest-people-in-world-forbes/43?utm_subid=10613768&utm_adset=4369130&utm_campaign=1447268&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=referral&ftag=ACQ-07-10adj1f&fbclid=IwAR21gXDDy8zZCuFHJE31qbH3dVjDTzv0pHeM8EKeyWJqDY78xGVc-i2XlAc)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on July 13, 2022, 09:42:03 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 13, 2022, 01:30:33 PM

Sure I have lots of recs.  When are you coming?  What kind of foods do you like?  Anything specific you want to try? What part of town are you staying in and how far away are you willing/able to go, for meals?

coming in September, staying with family don't know where they live exactly yet, I'll get that info soon, but I know it's 15-20 min drive into Austin. I'll be renting a car so I'll be willing to travel everywhere and anywhere lol.

And I like everything man. I am not a picky eater, I eat it all as long as it's good. It's Texas, so I imagine the BBQ and Mexican food has to be about as good as it gets, and I'd like to try that. I've heard of Franklin BBQ, is it as good as the hype? I've also heard it can be a bitch just to get in. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 14, 2022, 06:53:00 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on July 13, 2022, 09:42:03 PM

coming in September, staying with family don't know where they live exactly yet, 

What's that tell you? :sign0151:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 14, 2022, 08:41:19 AM

What's the worst place to eat in Austin?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2022, 08:54:07 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/DJN2Eco.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2022, 08:55:00 AM

I have wondered if we could "buy" Mexico.  Just buy it.  Here is $5 trillion, can we have your country?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2022, 08:56:25 AM

I saw that this morning and was going to post it.

Interesting

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2022, 09:06:06 AM

I recall when Japan had the second largest economy and folks feared they would overtake us.  Japan has a population problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 14, 2022, 09:15:39 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on July 14, 2022, 08:41:19 AM

What's the worst place to eat in Austin?

Applebee's?  Chili's?  Taco Bell?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 14, 2022, 09:16:25 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 14, 2022, 09:06:06 AM

I recall when Japan had the second largest economy and folks feared they would overtake us.  Japan has a population problem.

Yup.  They were buying property in LA and SF and everyone thought they'd eventually own all of the USA.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2022, 09:16:38 AM

perhaps we could just buy russia and end the war

Germany and France might chip in

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2022, 09:17:18 AM

Quote from: utee94 on July 14, 2022, 09:15:39 AM

Applebee's?  Chili's?  Taco Bell?

Taco Bell, WAY worse than the other two

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2022, 09:27:30 AM

I think only a national chain can stay in business while being bad.  A local place cannot for long unless they are cleaning money.

There was a place near me in Cincy, Asian place, that never had customers, and stayed in business for years, is still there, I ate there once or twice, they treated me OK but I was the only person dining.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 14, 2022, 09:39:02 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 14, 2022, 08:55:00 AM

I have wondered if we could "buy" Mexico.  Just buy it.  Here is $5 trillion, can we have your country?

That's an expensive dinner.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2022, 09:40:38 AM

I don't eat fast food unless I'm with someone that is hell bent on it.

I will be forced to eat Taco Johns, but I will refuse Taco Bell - I'll simply go hungry

of course skipping a meal and fasting a few hours won't hurt me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 14, 2022, 09:41:12 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 14, 2022, 09:06:06 AM

I recall when Japan had the second largest economy and folks feared they would overtake us.  Japan has a population problem.

Because we were told to be fearful.
Just like now, with China.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 14, 2022, 09:45:42 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 14, 2022, 09:27:30 AM

I think only a national chain can stay in business while being bad.  A local place cannot for long unless they are cleaning money.

National chains don't have to be good, as McDonalds has shown us.  It merely needs to be consistent and available.  I'd argue against that they're "bad," as they're almost scientifically not "bad."  They hit more taste notes than normal with infinite taste-testing - putting sugar in things that don't need it or salt in things that don't need it.  But however "bad" you deem it, to your brain, it's not bad at all.

It's hard to demonstrate consistency with only one local location, unless you have a bunch of customers who try different things often.  Most people find something they like and stick with it. 
If I get a burger from the same chain in Phoenix, Little Rock, and Daytona Beach, and they're all basically consistent, then that checks both boxes..

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2022, 10:00:37 AM

I suppose I could have said "mediocre" instead of "bad", but they two often overlap in my opinion.  National chains are consistently mediocre, with a few exceptions.

I avoid them except when traveling.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 14, 2022, 10:49:16 AM

anybody knocking McDonalds has never taken kids on a driving vacation

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2022, 11:37:01 AM

I would pass the Happy meals to my daughters in the back seat and then go get myself something to eat or skip a meal

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 14, 2022, 11:50:41 AM

Quarter-pounder with cheese isn't the best burger on earth, but it's not the worst either.  And as far as nutrition, it's no worse nor better than a cheeseburger of similar size from any other place.  

We rarely eat fast food, but on roadtrips it's pretty common for us, and McDonald's are ubiquitous.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 14, 2022, 12:01:21 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 14, 2022, 11:50:41 AM

McDonald's are ubiquitous.

that's fancy talk for "everywheres"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2022, 12:09:41 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 14, 2022, 10:49:16 AM

anybody knocking McDonalds has never taken kids on a driving vacation

This is true, or close to it.  My wife and I will do breakfast at McDs when on the road now.  It's OK.  We actually had lunch in a small town in NC a few days back because options were limited.  It's edible.  The fries were decent enough.

Their coffee is not very good IMHO.  I prefer the Whopper.

There is a Farmburger near us that has a pretty good burger and a beer for $10 right now.  Killer Burger is better but we drive there.  They just opened a new place nearer us also, Shake Shack it's called, burger was decent, pricey though, like $7.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2022, 12:16:57 PM

According to Census tallies, cities with larger metro areas than Atlanta’s are, in descending order: New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, Washington D.C., and Philadelphia.

Meanwhile, according to ARC estimates, the City of Atlanta added 5,070 new residents between 2021 and 2022. That would be a rebound from the previous year, when ARC estimates indicate the city gained 3,230 new people. 

ARC: Metro Atlanta packed on another 65,000 people in past year | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/population-growth-2022-metro-atl-gwinnett-regional-commission)

The city is growing pretty fast, relatively, off a base of about half a million.  I know there is a ton of construction around me, mostly ~30 story apartments going up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2022, 12:39:35 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/h7j7Lx2.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2022, 12:39:57 PM

I'm not moving there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2022, 12:40:36 PM

A things I hear on TV fairly often that annoys me way more than it should is calling "grilling out" a "barbecue".  They are effectively opposite things.

This is why I don't watch TV much.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2022, 12:41:36 PM

I just drove to Costco to fill up, regular was $3.69.9 per.  I wish they'd drop the point 9.

Premium was $4.04, I thought it was "cheap".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 14, 2022, 01:11:01 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 14, 2022, 12:40:36 PM

A things I hear on TV fairly often that annoys me way more than it should is calling "grilling out" a "barbecue".  They are effectively opposite things.

This is why I don't watch TV much.

Amen, brutha.  And they use BBQ as a noun, like an event.  

"Honey, Brad and Karen invited us over to a BBQ in their backyard.  What should we take?  Potato salad?"


(https://i.imgur.com/DasV9Ks.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2022, 01:15:41 PM

It frosts my shorts big time.  I yell at the TV.  Even my wife knows better.  Now anyway.

I had a GF in grad school for a while, really nice gal, from Long Island, like the iced tea (which isn't really iced tea I discovered).  She invited me to go home with her for Thanksgiving and they'd have barbecued swordfish.  I thought on this a long time, endeavored to persevere, and realized it just wouldn't work.

She had glamorous legs and was blonde, a smart one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2022, 01:17:26 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/zTgjmwO.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 14, 2022, 01:17:37 PM

It's a yankee thing in my experience.  Like pretty much everything else, yankees don't really know much about cooking or good food.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2022, 01:22:53 PM

it's similar to calling a Dr. Pepper a coke

not the proper nomenclature, Dude

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2022, 01:26:25 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/adoJjpm.png)

Can you bet the other side of these things?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2022, 01:27:17 PM

you can bet almost anything

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 14, 2022, 01:32:35 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 14, 2022, 01:22:53 PM

it's similar to calling a Dr. Pepper a coke

not the proper nomenclature, Dude

Nobody calls a Dr. Pepper a coke.  What's wrong with you?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2022, 01:35:29 PM

Here's Why Southerners Refer to All Soft Drinks as 'Coke' | Southern Living (https://www.southernliving.com/culture/why-do-southerners-call-soda-coke#:~:text=According to texashillcountry.com%2C native,-Cola%2C invented in Atlanta.)

The whole soda vs. pop vs. coke debate is bigger than any of us. And this battle over regional words rages on. Offer a Texan "pop," and he might throw his hat at you and the horse you rode up on.  Why do we call our soda pop coke? According to texashillcountry.com (http://texashillcountry.com/texans-call-every-soft-drink-coke/), native Texans (like most native Southerners) call all soft drinks "coke"—a generic use of Coke, as in Coca-Cola, invented in Atlanta. Ever since we popped the first top on that refreshing Georgia sipper, we've been loyal to the Coke brand, even slapping it on other drinks like Sprite and Dr. Pepper. Hence, you'll sometimes hear an only-in-the-South exchange that goes like this:

"You want a coke?"
"Sure."
"What kind can I get you?"

You can actually study the science behind our beverage speak. According to Coke's website, cartographer Alan McConchie first began collecting data on who says what and where back in the 1990s and used it to create a color-coded map (http://popvssoda.com/). To this very day, you can go there and answer McConchie's burning question: "What generic word do you use to describe carbonated soft drinks?" The results are reflected on the map, with pink  the designated "coke" color. The South is mighty pink, y'all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2022, 01:37:12 PM

For Kentucky, 2,248 out of 4,520 respondents are in Camp Coke.  For Georgia, it's 4,933 out of 6,908. Texas? That would be 14,494 out of 20, 574. We do not, as a people, appear to be terribly divided on our beverage verbiage.

So if you're a Northern tourist passing through the South, and somebody offers you a coke, just remember—your options are wide open.
What could be more Southern than a Coke? Maybe a fluffy, golden homemade biscuit, fresh out of the oven. Pass the butter, y'all. And maybe a little dollop of Mama's blackberry jam.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 14, 2022, 01:44:35 PM

Well yeah, we refer to the generic classification of all soft drinks, as "coke."  Who wouldn't?  Pop or soda or soda pop all sound so juvenile and silly.

But nobody would ever call a Dr. Pepper a Coke. That's just crazy talk.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2022, 01:53:03 PM

Yes, Hollywood is building a White Castle near downtown Atlanta | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/white-castle-edgewood-avenue-downtown-disney-filming)

(https://i.imgur.com/2aXOf6r.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 14, 2022, 02:18:52 PM

Good... good.  Blowing up a White Castle is the appropriate action to take, when one encounters a White Castle.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 14, 2022, 02:54:39 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 14, 2022, 09:16:38 AM

perhaps we could just buy russia and end the war

Germany and France might chip in

Don't give us that crap,you just want one of those mail order brides

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 14, 2022, 02:57:46 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 14, 2022, 01:17:37 PM

It's a yankee thing in my experience.  Like pretty much everything else, yankees don't really know much about cooking or good food.

Like you pokes from the nether regions scooping water from wagon ruts to make your suds

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2022, 02:59:28 PM

there are many worser things that come out of russia

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 14, 2022, 03:00:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 14, 2022, 01:15:41 PM

It frosts my shorts big time.  I yell at the TV.  Even my wife knows better.  Now anyway.

I had a GF in grad school for a while, really nice gal, from Long Island, like the iced tea (which isn't really iced tea I discovered).  She invited me to go home with her for Thanksgiving and they'd have barbecued swordfish.  I thought on this a long time, endeavored to persevere, and realized it just wouldn't work.

She had glamorous legs and was blonde, a smart one.

Ernie Hemingway would have went even if they just had Sloppy Joe's

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2022, 03:01:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 14, 2022, 01:37:12 PM

So if you're a Northern tourist passing through the South, and somebody offers you a coke, just remember—your options are wide open.

works well for me, I don't usually drink soda pop, but if I do it's a Coca-Cola

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on July 14, 2022, 03:02:48 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 14, 2022, 11:50:41 AM

Quarter-pounder with cheese isn't the best burger on earth, but it's not the worst either.  And as far as nutrition, it's no worse nor better than a cheeseburger of similar size from any other place. 

We rarely eat fast food, but on roadtrips it's pretty common for us, and McDonald's are ubiquitous.

didn't always use to be this way. I believe McDonald's changed the Quarter-pounder up within the last few years. They claim the quarter pounders are now never frozen, always fresh beef and cooked to order on a flat top griddle. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 14, 2022, 03:04:52 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on July 14, 2022, 03:02:48 PM

didn't always use to be this way. I believe McDonald's changed the Quarter-pounder up within the last few years. They claim the quarter pounders are now never frozen, always fresh beef and cooked to order on a flat top griddle.

I've heard the same.  But even when they were frozen they were still 100% beef. Always tasted fine to me, better than plenty of other options out there and of course not as good as others.

For the ease, convenience, predictability, and price-- it's a slam dunk on a roadtrip with kids.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2022, 03:06:18 PM

claim whatever they want - liars, the lot of them

when you pull them outta the bag, they don't look anything like what you see on the commercials or in ads

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 14, 2022, 03:07:24 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 14, 2022, 03:01:29 PM

works well for me, I don't usually drink soda pop, but if I do it's a Coca-Cola

In France I could order a beer as the drink of choice to go with a Happy Meal.  I did this regularly, because I thought it was amusing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2022, 03:07:39 PM

100% beef???

Geez, do you want to know what a 100% beef hot dog is made of???

yup, it all came from a bovine, but............... yikes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on July 14, 2022, 03:09:00 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 14, 2022, 01:17:37 PM

It's a yankee thing in my experience.  Like pretty much everything else, yankees don't really know much about cooking or good food.

I think that's just most people in America in general. Most Americans don't know much about cooking or good food imo. Besides, what really is "American food" - it's mostly plain, simple bullshit like hotdogs, burgers, turkey, mashed potatoes, fried chicken, etc., etc.. The food in this country generally sucks compared to other countries imo.

I'd argue the best food in the US comes from the big northern cities that have big immigrant populations- who bring the flavor. Shitloads of Italians in Detroit, Chicago, NYC, etc.. Best middle eastern food you can find on planet earth outside of actually being in the middle east is in Dearborn, MI. And I'm a sucker for that kind of food. Holy shit I love it all. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 14, 2022, 03:09:23 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 14, 2022, 03:07:39 PM

100% beef???

Geez, do you want to know what a 100% beef hot dog is made of???

yup, it all came from a bovine, but............... yikes

Next thing ya know, Fearless is going to be indicting the entire meat-packing industry.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on July 14, 2022, 03:11:43 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 14, 2022, 03:07:24 PM

In France I could order a beer as the drink of choice to go with a Happy Meal.  I did this regularly, because I thought it was amusing.

over in Europe the McDonalds tastes better too. It's kind of wild. I think the EFSA  - the EU version of the US's FDA - is WAY more strict on what they allow. Which in turns leads to a much better quality and tasting product. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 14, 2022, 03:15:39 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on July 14, 2022, 03:11:43 PM

over in Europe the McDonalds tastes better too. It's kind of wild. I think the EFSA  - the EU version of the US's FDA - is WAY more strict on what they allow. Which in turns leads to a much better quality and tasting product.

I don't know.  I haven't thought much about comparing McDonald's because it's all just junky fast food, but the beef I've had in France is much, much worse than even average beef in the US.  You have to order Agentine steaks to get high quality over there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 14, 2022, 03:18:45 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on July 14, 2022, 03:09:00 PM

I'd argue the best food in the US comes from the big northern cities that have big immigrant populations- who bring the flavor. Shitloads of Italians in Detroit, Chicago, NYC, etc.. Best middle eastern food you can find on planet earth outside of actually being in the middle east is in Dearborn, MI. And I'm a sucker for that kind of food. Holy shit I love it all.

I'll put Texas Tex-Mex and BBQ up against anything the north has to offer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 14, 2022, 03:21:13 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 14, 2022, 03:18:45 PM

I'll put Texas Tex-Mex and BBQ up against anything the north has to offer

It's always going to come down to taste preference, which tends to be developed regionally.

Personally, I prefer flavors and dishes from the Far East, over the Middle East.  Traditional Vietnamese, Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Thai.  I love all of them.  And you can find plenty of excellent examples of those down here in Texico, especially in Austin and Houston.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on July 14, 2022, 03:22:00 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 14, 2022, 03:07:24 PM

In France I could order a beer as the drink of choice to go with a Happy Meal.  I did this regularly, because I thought it was amusing.

A cold beer to wash down a royale with cheese? Sign me up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 14, 2022, 03:22:31 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on July 14, 2022, 03:22:00 PM

A cold beer to wash down a royale with cheese? Sign me up.

I mean, it's crappy French beer, but still... ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2022, 03:26:06 PM

nice pairing with a crappy burger

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on July 14, 2022, 04:11:38 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 14, 2022, 03:21:13 PM

It's always going to come down to taste preference, which tends to be developed regionally.

Personally, I prefer flavors and dishes from the Far East, over the Middle East.  Traditional Vietnamese, Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Thai.  I love all of them.  And you can find plenty of excellent examples of those down here in Texico, especially in Austin and Houston.

I love the Far East food as well. I just love good food period lol. I'm a true fat ass.

Middle Eastern food just tends to be much cleaner to me. Aside from Sushi, seems like a lot of the Asian food really screws up my stomach. I don't know if it's because a lot of it is all fried and greasy and spicy or what it is. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love it, but it really just wrecks me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2022, 05:38:49 PM

President Macron leads Bastille Day celebrations | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site (https://www.news.com.au/national/president-macron-leads-bastille-day-celebrations/video/43a459b461cd8ae168e680029021a5b8)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2022, 09:06:16 PM

Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway invested another $250 million in Occidental Petroleum this week.
Buffett's company now commands a 19.2% stake, valued at north of $10 billion.
If Berkshire clears 20%, it can include a share of Occidental's profits in its own earnings.


shocking.... I'm STILL guessing the oil companies will report highest earnings in history

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2022, 09:36:49 PM

Oil prices have fallen to levels not seen since before the war in Ukraine began as the market weighs a recession threat in the face of the highest U.S. inflation rate in decades.

Benchmark Brent crude fell as much as 6% to trade briefly below $95 per barrel on Thursday. Brent closed at $96.84 just before Russia invaded Ukraine on Feb. 24. Prices then soared to as high as $139 as markets reckoned with the fallout from the conflict.

West Texas Intermediate, the main benchmark for North America, traded as low as $90.56 per barrel. Just a week ago, WTI closed at $102.63 per barrel.


_____________________________

I'm sure gasoline will be back down to $2.77 soon like it was on Feb 22, 2022

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 15, 2022, 06:09:07 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/sbFp7Ke.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2022, 02:26:23 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/rRKKfjQ.png)

This is a mobile crane that reaches up 20 stories near us, has a twin out of frame.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2022, 02:30:01 PM

And a block away, two long time restaurants are, well, gone.  This was "Joe's on Juniper", which was a locally famous gay bar place.  We dined there on two occasions, it wasn't notably "gay", just bar food.

(https://i.imgur.com/yCoHq0k.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2022, 02:31:33 PM

And next door was another place that had a nice patio, a notch above bar food, fairly decent, called Einsteins.  There are some 60 year old oak trees about to be whooshed also in the name of progress.

(https://i.imgur.com/Kg95mNU.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/DOeheoL.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2022, 07:18:38 AM

No, Millions of Cars Are Not Catching Fire Every Year (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40163966/cars-catching-fire-new-york-times-real-statistics/?utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR2BP00CcigWKFvLn0k3HuUjdKf5SoOfTUK9nTSJyw7jDDx-KxVeW75zjgE)

This is really absurd, any decent editor should have pushed back on this story, hard.  If one in twenty cars caught fire each year, well, do the math.

Last month, the New York Times ran a story about EV safety and car fires that caught our eye over here at the C/D Department of Fishy Assertions. Titled "Hurdle to Broad Adoption of EVs: The Misperception That They're Unsafe (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/05/business/electric-vehicle-safety.html)," it argues that electric cars catch fire less often than conventional internal-combustion cars or hybrids. It reads, in part:

Quote

AutoInsuranceEZ studied the frequency of fires—from all causes, including collisions—in automobiles in 2021. It found that hybrid vehicles, which have an internal combustion engine and an electric motor, had the most fires per 100,000 vehicles (3475), while vehicles with just an internal combustion engine placed second (1530 per 100,000). Fully electric vehicles had the fewest: 25 per 100,000. These findings were based on data from the National Transportation Safety Board and the Bureau of Transportation Statistics.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2022, 07:23:37 AM

Zion National Park Angel's Landing Hike - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KirKDTBTj5I)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 17, 2022, 09:17:17 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 17, 2022, 08:23:54 AM

I think Newsom basically is running for a higher office.

He's going to "look into it", this lack of transparency, because you know, programs should come out in public each time they consider such a move.

Has a governor who faced a recall ever been elected POTUS?


He got 60% support in favor of retention in a state where #46 got almost 64%.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2022, 09:21:23 AM

Probably not, but recalls of governors are rather rare.  I also note that it's somewhat duplicative for a Democratic governor of CA to run for President in that CA is going Dem anyway.  They'd be better off hailing from Texas or Ohio or even Georgia if they are reasonably popular at home.

I think he's looking at a run, depending, and will become more visible on "issues" like this one over the next couple of years.  He might even be seen doing his own laundry somewhere not French.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 17, 2022, 09:30:48 AM

Considering his recent attacks on Ron from Florida and Kristi from SD, I'd say he's got the higher office in mind.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 17, 2022, 09:45:16 AM

Our country is definitely stupid enough to vote for him, unfortunately. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2022, 09:53:56 AM

I have not liked any nominee for President in a long long time.  I doubt I'd like Newsom or whoever the republicans nominate.

I'm old and crotchety.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 17, 2022, 10:19:12 AM

CD I think you lean blue

not saying it as a bad thing

just a fact

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 17, 2022, 10:30:04 AM

I don't even know which party is associated with blue, and which with red.  To me, that's all just part of the bullshit identity politics that are damaging our country.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 17, 2022, 10:36:25 AM

Quote from: utee94 on July 17, 2022, 10:30:04 AM

I don't even know which party is associated with blue, and which with red.  To me, that's all just part of the bullshit identity politics that are damaging our country.

ouch!

word!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2022, 10:37:39 AM

The color pattern switched ca. 1990 because "red" is associated with communism and back then Democrats were coded red.  Now they are blue.

My own color would be something like chartruese, mostly because I don't know what color that really is, I think it may be greenish.

But it may be purplish.

I'd guess I would be somewhat close to libertarians if they didn't all seem to be insane.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 17, 2022, 10:45:56 AM

Limited government is my thing. Go through the below list of agencies. Tell me which ones are needed. It will take a month, but I'm patient.

A-Z Index of U.S. Government Departments and Agencies | A | USAGov (https://www.usa.gov/federal-agencies)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 17, 2022, 10:49:04 AM

After that, tell me many of these offices we need:

The Cabinet | The White House (https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/cabinet/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2022, 10:52:37 AM

Taxpayer Advocacy Panel | USAGov (https://www.usa.gov/federal-agencies/taxpayer-advocacy-panel)

I chuckled.

In my opinion, politicians see a problem, or note that voters see a problem, and then create a board or agency or department ostensibly to deal with the problem and consider it solved even if the thing created does little useful.

It also affords patronage on a vast scale.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 17, 2022, 11:21:47 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 17, 2022, 09:17:17 AM

Has a governor who faced a recall ever been elected POTUS?


He got 60% support in favor of retention in a state where #46 got almost 64%.

The answer to the first question is no, but that's in part because almost no recall elections happen. Only 19 states even allow them. Per an article produced by Big Ten member Rutgers, only four have even faced recalls. Combine that with the fact only 17 elected governors have been elected POTUS, and it's all a somewhat narrow path. 

I assume he has the ambition to try. He's always been an extremely ambitious one. I assume he'll try and get cut down somewhere in the process, a story that is for the most part mundane. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 17, 2022, 11:23:48 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 17, 2022, 10:49:04 AM

After that, tell me many of these offices we need:

The Cabinet | The White House (https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/cabinet/)

Demolish the TVA! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 17, 2022, 12:02:25 PM

We obviously dont need a Secretary of Transportation

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 17, 2022, 12:37:34 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 17, 2022, 10:19:12 AM

CD I think you lean blue

not saying it as a bad thing

just a fact

Uses a sentence beginning with "I think".....ends the post with "just a fact."

:smiley_confused1:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 17, 2022, 12:39:10 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 17, 2022, 10:37:39 AM

The color pattern switched ca. 1990 because "red" is associated with communism and back then Democrats were coded red.  Now they are blue.

I knew it!  People I've brought this up with look at me like I'm crazy, but I distinctly remember Dems being red and Reps blue.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 17, 2022, 12:44:45 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 17, 2022, 12:37:34 PM

Uses a sentence beginning with "I think".....ends the post with "just a fact."

:smiley_confused1:

yes it is just a fact that I think that and there was no criticism meant

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 17, 2022, 12:49:38 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 17, 2022, 12:39:10 PM

I knew it!  People I've brought this up with look at me like I'm crazy, but I distinctly remember Dems being red and Reps blue. 

and all you had to do was google it to be vindicated 

both parties claim these colors and I have not seen any derogatory meaning attached to them

I think its a non issue

and as CD says some folks cant be painted either one or maybe they are a combination of both which would make them independents possibly

anyway I guess some folks just have to see bad in everything when many times non is meant

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 17, 2022, 01:10:19 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 17, 2022, 11:23:48 AM

Demolish the TVA!

Lots of damn dams.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 17, 2022, 01:20:01 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 17, 2022, 11:21:47 AM

The answer to the first question is no, but that's in part because almost no recall elections happen. Only 19 states even allow them. Per an article produced by Big Ten member Rutgers, only four have even faced recalls. Combine that with the fact only 17 elected governors have been elected POTUS, and it's all a somewhat narrow path.

I assume he has the ambition to try. He's always been an extremely ambitious one. I assume he'll try and get cut down somewhere in the process, a story that is for the most part mundane.

Scott Walker faced a recall here in Wisconsin, when he neutered the government pension thing with his budget repair bill. It was employee union driven recall. I do not have any idea why it's necessary to be in a union as a government employee. You pretty much have to commit murder to be fired in the first place.

10.pdf (wisconsin.gov) (https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/related/acts/10.pdf)

He and Newsom are the only two governors to survive recall.

Walker was on the GOP primary ticket for the 2016 election, but bailed very early. He lost the governor election in 2018, to the worst governor Evers, as part of that blue wave.

Like Walker, Newsome has no chance in 2024. Pipe dream.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 17, 2022, 01:37:04 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 17, 2022, 01:20:01 PM

Scott Walker faced a recall here in Wisconsin, when he neutered the government pension thing with his budget repair bill. It was employee union driven recall. I do not have any idea why it's necessary to be in a union as a government employee. You pretty much have to commit murder to be fired in the first place.

10.pdf (wisconsin.gov) (https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/related/acts/10.pdf)

He and Newsom are the only two governors to survive recall.

Walker was on the GOP primary ticket for the 2016 election, but bailed very early. He lost the governor election in 2018, to the worst governor Evers, as part of that blue wave.

Like Walker, Newsome has no chance in 2024. Pipe dream.

Probably a pipe dream. Though I think drawing the recall comparison is a bit of a stretch. Plenty of other reasons he'll have issues, which was also the case with Walker. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 17, 2022, 02:03:25 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 17, 2022, 12:49:38 PM

and all you had to do was google it to be vindicated

both parties claim these colors and I have not seen any derogatory meaning attached to them

I think its a non issue

and as CD says some folks cant be painted either one or maybe they are a combination of both which would make them independents possibly

anyway I guess some folks just have to see bad in everything when many times non is meant

I definitely see identifying with a specific color associated with a specific party as a bad thing.  I see identity politics as a terribly damaging trend.  

People now cheer for their "team" and hate on the other "team" as they would an NFL sports team.  It's stupid and it's dangerous.

Just my opinion, of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 17, 2022, 02:06:32 PM

Anyway, headed back out to the lake for another day of wake surfing.  I really like it, much easier on the body than skiing or wakeboarding.  Although I still like to ski occasionally, and the kids like to wakeboard too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 17, 2022, 02:23:46 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 17, 2022, 02:03:25 PM

I definitely see identifying with a specific color associated with a specific party as a bad thing.  I see identity politics as a terribly damaging trend. 

People now cheer for their "team" and hate on the other "team" as they would an NFL sports team.  It's stupid and it's dangerous.

Just my opinion, of course.

well I guess we just dont agree on this subject

to me if a state is blue it just means it is over 50% democrat not sure why attaching a color is identity politics

both parties have platforms which state what they are for and if you find a party that believes the way you do then bingo you would vote for people in that party

thats why parties exist

its been this way for over 200 years

does this mean voters cant think for themselves -  not in my opinion

it just means a voter identifies with the beliefs of the party

can a voter pick someone outside the party to vote for sure it happens all the time

but if they vote republican they are considered red and if they democrat  they are blue

this is used mostly it show on a map or graph how people voted and really isnt meant to be derogatory

it should be noted that the media is the one driving color designation for a party

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 17, 2022, 03:11:00 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 17, 2022, 02:03:25 PM

I definitely see identifying with a specific color associated with a specific party as a bad thing.  I see identity politics as a terribly damaging trend. 

People now cheer for their "team" and hate on the other "team" as they would an NFL sports team.  It's stupid and it's dangerous.

Just my opinion, of course.

I think it's interesting because I think politics as part of identity has always been a thing, to a degree (and has oft been tied to class, creed, ethnicity and whatever else).

But I also agree, it seems like we're at a point where we often let politics become a really big part of our identity and really worldview. Which in many ways narrows perspective. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on July 17, 2022, 03:18:44 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 17, 2022, 02:03:25 PM

I definitely see identifying with a specific color associated with a specific party as a bad thing.  I see identity politics as a terribly damaging trend. 

People now cheer for their "team" and hate on the other "team" as they would an NFL sports team.  It's stupid and it's dangerous.

Just my opinion, of course.

Yup, I think that's the biggest problem.

Both party's platforms have become so nationalized, you are voting for the same thing anywhere.  I love that people brought up Bernie's past history of opposition of gun control laws.  Guess what, he's been around long enough that a D from Vermont didn't look like a D from NYC, or a D from California.  Now, that's not the case.  It's toe the party line, or they'll vote you out.  Democrats are furious at Joe Manchin.  He's a moderate Democrat, who opposes certain climate restrictions that would hurt his constituents.  I'll give him credit, we need more like him.  He's what a Democrat from WV should look like.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2022, 04:29:44 PM

In some quasi-ideal world where the parties worked together to compromise, voters would become apathetic (many would), they wouldn't get so incensed they'd write checks and volunteer and get out the vote etc.  So, politicians have no vested interest in compromise.  And your fans would of course criticize you for not getting everything you wanted.  They want us as incensed as possible because that is how they get support.

There are ample areas where compromise is possible, give and take, but it's only very rarely going to happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 17, 2022, 07:15:56 PM

Royal Society of Chemistry

The world's leading chemistry community, with 175 years of connecting people with the chemical sciences through knowledge, skills, and community. This is a great place to find journals, books, and databases, and more tools for research and discovery of recent advances in chemistry.

https://www.rsc.org/ (https://www.rsc.org/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 17, 2022, 10:21:33 PM

Quote from: ELA on July 17, 2022, 03:18:44 PM

Yup, I think that's the biggest problem.

Both party's platforms have become so nationalized, you are voting for the same thing anywhere.  I love that people brought up Bernie's past history of opposition of gun control laws.  Guess what, he's been around long enough that a D from Vermont didn't look like a D from NYC, or a D from California.  Now, that's not the case.  It's toe the party line, or they'll vote you out.  Democrats are furious at Joe Manchin.  He's a moderate Democrat, who opposes certain climate restrictions that would hurt his constituents.  I'll give him credit, we need more like him.  He's what a Democrat from WV should look like.

Well said, conveyed much better than my attempts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2022, 05:44:33 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 17, 2022, 03:11:00 PM

I think it's interesting because I think politics as part of identity has always been a thing, to a degree (and has oft been tied to class, creed, ethnicity and whatever else).

Back in the day, folks did have an "indentity" of various sorts, they would be Ford guys or Chevy guys, Baptists or Methodists (and a few Presbyterians, they were kinda weird, but no Catholics at all), Tech guys or Dawg guys, in Cincinnati it was West Siders or East Siders, still is I suspect.

I have a few brands I prefer, but not that strongly, commercial brands.  Down here most folks hail from somewhere else.  I used to get asked at parties which HS I attended in Cincy, it was a brand name for folks there.  Of course they had never heard of my actual HS.  I thought it an odd question.  Most in Cincy are from Cincy.  Their HS identifies them.

Humans are clannish and social, individually we aren't much, but in aggregate ....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2022, 06:46:14 AM

The design and testing of the X-59 Quiet SuperSonic Technology (QueSST) aircraft will attempt to prove that the latter is possible. NASA is attempting to prove that commercial supersonic aircraft can be constructed in such a way that the loud sonic boom they generate can be replaced with a much more tolerable sonic “thump.” Theoretically the sonic boom laid down by supersonic aircraft can be turned into a noise similar in magnitude to the noise generated by slamming a car door. It is believed that the general public, pets, structures and insurance companies will be able to endure this major reduction in noise on a regular basis.

Sonic booms are tough to eliminate. The boom happens when shockwaves are produced by an aircraft as it pushes its way through the air and displaces it as it approaches, or exceeds, the speed of sound. Sonic booms are simply a change in pressure but they generate enormous amounts of energy. Most booms generated by aircraft are in the vicinity of 110 decibels, which is similar to the sound energy of a nearby explosion or thunder released by a lightning strike, and they are just as surprising.

NASA has designed the X-59’s testing into three phases:

1) Design (completed) and construction (continuing) of the aircraft. After Lockheed Martin has completed assembly of aircraft, it will enter, what I was told to be, a 10-flight validation program completed by Lockheed Martin before the aircraft is handed over to NASA. These initial flights will include a check-out of the aircraft and validation of safety and expected performance. This will hopefully be happening at the end of this year or early 2023. The pandemic has slowed everything down on this project.
2) NASA will test the X-59 to validate its acoustic signatures. At this point, the flights are slated to be flown in the vicinity of NASA Armstrong and Edwards Air Force Base. The data from these tests will hopefully prove that the X-59 is capable of regular operations in the National Airspace System. The flights will also validate the testing equipment used to determine the impact of the “sonic thump” expected from the aircraft.
3) The X-59 will fly over selected communities across the United States to gather data from the general public to determine their opinions of the noise generated by the aircraft. At this point, I imagine this will be happening in 2024 or 2025 and will continue for a couple of years. I have not heard if the specific communities have been selected at this point. I imagine that the aircraft will travel around the country taking advantage of geographic and population density issues that will certainly affect the magnitude of the “thump” laid down by the aircraft.

At this point, the X-59 test program mission is set to end in 2027—taking into account any delays. Data gleaned from the project will be presented to rule-making and regulatory bodies for evaluation. If the program is successful, the hope is that new aircraft can be designed and evaluated by the noise they generate and not on an arbitrary speed limit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2022, 08:58:24 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/OUzPBvg.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 18, 2022, 10:09:52 AM

Snoop Dog?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 18, 2022, 10:29:08 AM

some of us talk about identity politics and how evil it is but Im not really sure what it really is

could someone please define what is meant by identity politics cause I think it might mean different things to different people

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2022, 11:40:06 AM

• a tendency for people of a particular religion, race, social background, etc., to form exclusive political alliances, moving away from traditional broad-based party politics.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 18, 2022, 11:42:15 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 18, 2022, 11:40:06 AM

• a tendency for people of a particular religion, race, social background, etc., to form exclusive political alliances, moving away from traditional broad-based party politics.

and why is that bad

why shouldnt individuals with a cause band together to promote it

please enlighten us

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2022, 11:50:25 AM

It's not inherently bad except that in some ideal world, we'd make individual decisions, not just because our group decides for us.

  Lemmings.

In reality, out schism is mostly rural-v-urban.  It's an entirely different existense, I have lived both.  In a city, one is very dependent on government.  In the country, one barely depends on government.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 18, 2022, 12:16:16 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 18, 2022, 11:50:25 AM

It's not inherently bad except that in some ideal world, we'd make individual decisions, not just because our group decides for us.

  Lemmings.

But what about the folks who truly feel very pro a certain cause that are naturally drawn to others with the same cause

I agree that one should always think for themselves

what about those who think for themselves realizing there is a large group of others with the very same feelings towards how to make this country a better place

maybe those taking part in  the Boston tea party were looked upon as evil identity politics people

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2022, 12:19:15 PM

I see as when some unrelated factor, like one's race, causes one to have specific political views.

If you grow up in Texas, you're apt to be a Longhorn fan, which is fine, we all do it, more or less.  It's not really rational, otherwise we'd have sports fans randomly dotted around the country.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on July 18, 2022, 12:24:11 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 18, 2022, 11:50:25 AM

In the country, one barely depends on government far more than one thinks they do.

FIFY. 

Most of the interior West would not exist if it weren't for massive government subsidy, both then and now. 

In Minnesota, the tax dollars go out of the Twin Cities metro, not the other way around.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 18, 2022, 12:28:52 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 18, 2022, 12:19:15 PM

I see as when some unrelated factor, like one's race, causes one to have specific political views.

If someone adopts a view just to fit in that is not good

everyone should think for themselves

Im a strict Constitutionalist and when trying to decide which side of an issue I fall on I apply the Constitution test

If it passes that then I apply the "Its the right thing to do" test

there are several things that come into play when making a pro or con decision on an issue

everyone should make an effort to evaluate in a similar manner

after doing so it would be perfectly natural to gravitate towards others who have the same view

and as an aside there are plenty of upside down hookem fans in Texas

The Dallas area comes to mind

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 18, 2022, 12:36:37 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 18, 2022, 10:29:08 AM

some of us talk about identity politics and how evil it is but Im not really sure what it really is

could someone please define what is meant by identity politics cause I think it might mean different things to different people

A friend said he felt is was distinct in a way because it was a factor of attaching political beliefs to something innate (race, gender, sexual orientation) as compared to something chosen (profession, religion, etc.).

On a personal level, and remember I'm highly cynical, I think it's just a case of branding. Tying politics to each category of identity is as old as politics itself, and is basically the MO of every party that exists. The raising of it to something really bad seemed, to me anyway, more like a narrative cudgel because we need at least one anchor for freakout per month per side. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2022, 12:51:42 PM

Back in the day, I questioned some people who were very ardent about climate change to tell me its cause, in a paragraph or so, a short explanation of the concept.  Out of five people, one could partially come up with something.  I also questioned the "other side" and none of six people could explain the theory, at all.  I even questioned a person at work who claimed to be an engineer and she couldn't tell me how humans were causing climate change, but she believed it was a bad problem.

When you believe in things you don't understand ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on July 18, 2022, 12:53:51 PM

Global Warming morphed into Climate Change about 15 years ago.  Great CYA move.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2022, 12:57:45 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on July 18, 2022, 12:53:51 PM

Global Warming morphed into Climate Change about 15 years ago.  Great CYA move.

It's technically more accurate, really, I don't think it was some nefarious plot.

I mentioned before trying to read up on it, quite a bit, it is more complex than I could handle, but I can outline the basic theory.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 18, 2022, 01:05:26 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 18, 2022, 12:36:37 PM

A friend said he felt is was distinct in a way because it was a factor of attaching political beliefs to something innate (race, gender, sexual orientation) as compared to something chosen (profession, religion, etc.).

On a personal level, and remember I'm highly cynical, I think it's just a case of branding. Tying politics to each category of identity is as old as politics itself, and is basically the MO of every party that exists. The raising of it to something really bad seemed, to me anyway, more like a narrative cudgel because we need at least one anchor for freakout per month per side.

you mean like if youre a Trump supporter youre automatically a racist

or if youre a dem you are pro choice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 18, 2022, 01:42:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 18, 2022, 12:51:42 PM

  I even questioned a person at work who claimed to be an engineer and she couldn't tell me how humans were causing climate change, but she believed it was a bad problem.

When you believe in things you don't understand ...

Heavens to Murgatryd - then get off the schneid and ask Stevie

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2022, 01:46:24 PM

I find it is common for folks to believe in a thing with rather sparse information about it.  I used to wonder how folks could be hoodwinked in financial schemes that I'd read about.  Shirley no one would fall for that.  

I must say though, that Nigerian prince came in for me Big Time.  I'm glad I sent him my banking information.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 18, 2022, 01:54:36 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 18, 2022, 01:46:24 PM

I find it is common for folks to believe in a thing with rather sparse information about it.  I used to wonder how folks could be hoodwinked in financial schemes that I'd read about.  Shirley no one would fall for that. 

I must say though, that Nigerian prince came in for me Big Time.  I'm glad I sent him my banking information.

To be fair, we are on a college football message board, and the vast majority of people, including us, it was very little about how football really works. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 18, 2022, 01:55:17 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 18, 2022, 01:05:26 PM

you mean like if youre a Trump supporter youre automatically a racist

or if youre a dem you are pro choice

I’m a little tied up at work, so I can’t fully expound on it at the moment. But short answer, no that is not what I mean.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 18, 2022, 01:57:56 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 18, 2022, 01:55:17 PM

I’m a little tied up at work, so I can’t fully expound on it at the moment. But short answer, no that is not what I mean.

please expound away when you get a chance Im very interested

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2022, 02:04:42 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 18, 2022, 01:54:36 PM

To be fair, we are on a college football message board, and the vast majority of people, including us, it was very little about how football really works.

I think folks here have a pretty good idea overall.  But we aren't making decisions based on how much we know about it either.  If I personally decided for example that climate change was a huge problem, I'd at least familiarize myself with the basic premise and read up on what can be done to fix it.

I wouldn't just go out protesting knowing almost nothing about it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 18, 2022, 02:32:20 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 18, 2022, 02:04:42 PM

I think folks here have a pretty good idea overall.  But we aren't making decisions based on how much we know about it either.  If I personally decided for example that climate change was a huge problem, I'd at least familiarize myself with the basic premise and read up on what can be done to fix it.

I wouldn't just go out protesting knowing almost nothing about it.

but youre not 20 years old either

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 18, 2022, 05:15:52 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 18, 2022, 12:51:42 PM

Back in the day, I questioned some people who were very ardent about climate change to tell me its cause, in a paragraph or so, a short explanation of the concept.  Out of five people, one could partially come up with something.  I also questioned the "other side" and none of six people could explain the theory, at all.  I even questioned a person at work who claimed to be an engineer and she couldn't tell me how humans were causing climate change, but she believed it was a bad problem.

When you believe in things you don't understand ...

So enlighten us on where you stand WRT Climate change/GW?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 18, 2022, 06:40:43 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 18, 2022, 02:04:42 PM

I think folks here have a pretty good idea overall.  But we aren't making decisions based on how much we know about it either.  If I personally decided for example that climate change was a huge problem, I'd at least familiarize myself with the basic premise and read up on what can be done to fix it.

I wouldn't just go out protesting knowing almost nothing about it.

I mean, we regularly complain about play calling with little sense of defensive structuring or how specific plays work.

I guess my question would be this, would it be enough to say “burning of fossil fuels seems to have negative impacts on the environment, and cause slight increases of the overall world temperature, which in turn causes a spate of weather issues that cause problems for people and animals. or at least that’s what experts seem to be saying.”? Would you want more detail?

(This isn’t me arguing that, more just trying to boil down a generalized argument)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2022, 07:16:02 PM

What is it about fossil fuels that is bad?  And why?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 18, 2022, 09:50:21 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 18, 2022, 01:05:26 PM

you mean like if youre a Trump supporter youre automatically a racist

This is where you get confused.  One doesn't equal the other, one is a subset of the other.  Sucks to be those in the larger group to be hand-cuffed with the subset, but that's what happens when the leader doesn't distance himself from that subset minority.  
Boo hoo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 18, 2022, 09:59:15 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 18, 2022, 07:16:02 PM

What is it about fossil fuels that is bad?  And why?

Too much carbon in the air - so-and-so parts per million exacerbates the increase in temperatures.  The thing that the crowd poopooing it with "the climate ebbs and flows hotter and colder naturally" doesn't seem to understand is the time element.  To potentially increase the temperatures as quickly as we have is the problem...instead of it happening gradually as it usually has, we're fast-forwarding it.  
And while the planet will be just fine, we're risking the relative comfort we've existed in and our own best interests.  
The climate is something easy to not worry about until it's an avalanche.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 18, 2022, 10:26:08 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 18, 2022, 09:50:21 PM

This is where you get confused.  One doesn't equal the other, one is a subset of the other.  Sucks to be those in the larger group to be hand-cuffed with the subset, but that's what happens when the leader doesn't distance himself from that subset minority. 
Boo hoo.

you contribute absolutely nothing 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 18, 2022, 11:18:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 18, 2022, 07:16:02 PM

What is it about fossil fuels that is bad?  And why?

Methane by itself is a very efficient greenhouse gas. Way worse than co2. 

The burning of hydrocarbons creates emissions, namely CO2, that enter the atmosphere and cause a greenhouse effect. 

I worked in a hydrocarbons facility for 15 years. I’m personally responsible for emitting millions of tons into the atmosphere. I’m ok with that, but I’m not blind to the consequences. I work with some very smart people, they all tell me the day is coming when nobody will be allowed to freely emit GHG without some kind of mitigation. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 19, 2022, 12:00:23 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 18, 2022, 01:57:56 PM

please expound away when you get a chance Im very interested

Basically, the term was sort of bandied about as something bad and unseemly. Like it was an underhanded act and had no place. I guess it was aimed at trying to appeal to specific groups? But it entered this world where we have vague, menacing sounding phrases that alight a base and get them riled. 

But it never seemed super clearly defined. More like a TV head talking point because you need a thing to yell about. 

At least that's the way it came off to me. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 19, 2022, 12:07:52 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 18, 2022, 07:16:02 PM

What is it about fossil fuels that is bad?  And why?

Again, acting as a sort of basic, just drawing it out from the bottom up. We've all at one point or another inhaled fumes standing behind a car or near some sort of burning fuel. That gives off a bad physical reaction. We've seen pictures of smoggy LA back in the day. If scientists go out saying this is bad, it's somewhat easy to extrapolate that this thing that makes us feel sick when we breath it could be bad if there's a lot in the air. 

Now that's just trying to decipher reactions to things around us. Are you looking for a scientific explanation? A mechanical one?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 19, 2022, 01:34:00 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 18, 2022, 02:32:20 PM

but youre not 20 years old either

He still drinks wine out of the Box don't let him kid you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 19, 2022, 03:25:00 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 18, 2022, 10:26:08 PM

you contribute absolutely nothing

What I love about you is that you hate my posts, but can't tell me I'm wrong.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 07:22:22 AM

I think a basic paragraph on climate change should refer to the rise in CO2 in the atmosphere due to burning fossil fuels.  (Methane is more potent, yes, but less prevalent and degrades over time.)

CO2 traps the heat from the Sun in the air, the "greenhouse effect", without which our temperatures would be substantially lower than they are.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 19, 2022, 07:39:35 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 18, 2022, 10:29:08 AM

some of us talk about identity politics and how evil it is but Im not really sure what it really is

could someone please define what is meant by identity politics cause I think it might mean different things to different people

My impression of identity politics is when a politician assumes their audience leans a particular way based on their immutible characteristics. The one that stands out to me was when Biden was being interviewed by a black radio host, he stated "If you don't vote for me, you ain't black." He correlated peoples race with their politics basically saying that black people only vote for Democrats, not allowing for the possiblity that people of all races, have an ability to think for themselves. 

Another example was when he proclaimed that he would nominate only a black female for nomination to the Supreme Court. This bascially infers that a persons sex and race is somehow a prerequiste to enlightenment in regards to a persons ability to decide the Constitutionality of cases that will come before them. 

All this really does is virtue signal to a base of people that he is "down with their cause", whatever that is. But it is classic Identity Politics where he is basing is politcal decisions of the immutable characteristics certain people. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on July 19, 2022, 07:42:30 AM

The greatest green house gas in the atmosphere by far is water and there has always been climate change at any time scale one wishes to look at.   The release of carbon into the atmosphere by humans burning fossil fuels, ~6GtC/yr, is pretty small when compared to other natural sources such as soil respiration, 120 GtC/yr.  The level of CO2 in the atmosphere is increasing and that will trap more heat.  I just don't buy that human activity is the overwhelming cause for climate change or phenomenon such as the current heat wave in Europe.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 19, 2022, 07:42:47 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 07:22:22 AM

I think a basic paragraph on climate change should refer to the rise in CO2 in the atmosphere due to burning fossil fuels.  (Methane is more potent, yes, but less prevalent and degrades over time.)

CO2 traps the heat from the Sun in the air, the "greenhouse effect", without which our temperatures would be substantially lower than they are.

The global warming, global cooling, climate change or whatever they are calling it now is about one thing; MONEY. As I have said multiple times, follow the money and you will see what this is all about. It is an opportunity for politicians to grab money and power by dictating what we have to do to protect from an impending disaster that is always at least 10 years away. (They have been doing this for many decades and NONE of their dire predictions have ever come to be.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 07:44:14 AM

I'd correlates it more with the specific voter who thinks, for example, "I'm a young college student and all my friends Vote X, so I should Vote X".

Herd mentality, in effect.  Wanting to go along to get along.  A LOT of voters vote simply based on such things because it's simpler and easier.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 07:45:53 AM

I got into discussions about CC at work with  technical folks way back when I used to lunch with the group, so I tried reading up on it.  I had the "advantage" of having journals like Science and Nature come across my desk each week, so I tried reading articles on the topic.

Suffice it to say they are complex, for me anyway, mostly about adjusting this model or that by a small amount.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 08:15:29 AM

I stumbled across this on FB:

(https://i.imgur.com/VZASq98.png)

Akin to "our" hypotheticals matchups.  I was impressed with Joe Burreaux for obvious, and VY of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 08:28:06 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/HkqCZHk.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2022, 09:01:59 AM

The U.S. Navy’s famed Blue Angels aerial demonstration team on Monday named the first female pilot in the squadron’s history, the organization said.

Lieutenant Amanda Lee is one of six new core members selected for the team, founded 76 years ago, the Navy said. It said women from the Navy and Marine Corps have served with the Blue Angels for 55 years, but never before as a pilot.

The Blue Angels were created in 1946 to generate public support and boost Navy morale by performing aerial moves at air shows, sporting events and other flight demonstrations.


Lee, of Mounds View, Minnesota, is currently assigned to the Strike Fighter Squadron 106 demonstration team, known as the Gladiators, stationed at Naval Air Station Oceana in Virginia Beach, Virginia. She and the other new members will report to the Blue Angels in September.

After the current season concludes in the winter, the members will undergo five months of training in a California facility before starting the 2023 show season.

There are 17 officers currently on the Blue Angels. They typically serve two years with the team.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 19, 2022, 09:49:55 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 08:15:29 AM

I stumbled across this on FB:

(https://i.imgur.com/VZASq98.png)

Akin to "our" hypotheticals matchups.  I was impressed with Joe Burreaux for obvious, and VY of course.

The LSU team is always so interesting to me, because the defense was just good, not great, occasionally vulnerable. But the offense was such a murder wagon that it never felt like it totally mattered

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 09:52:36 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 19, 2022, 09:49:55 AM

The LSU team is always so interesting to me, because the defense was just good, not great, occasionally vulnerable. But the offense was such a murder wagon that it never felt like it totally mattered

Yeah, it was a fun team to watch if you weren't playing them.  I'd sorta like to see that team up against the UGA '21 team.  Burreaux was just insane that year.

I wondered how'd he'd do in the NFL, thinking he should be very good.  You never really know, and the Bungals OL was not great at first.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 09:56:14 AM

I just moved a chunk from my IRA to my Roth IRA, it's worth considering I think given the market is down.

Ouch on the taxes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 19, 2022, 10:55:51 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on July 19, 2022, 07:42:30 AM

The greatest green house gas in the atmosphere by far is water and there has always been climate change at any time scale one wishes to look at.  The release of carbon into the atmosphere by humans burning fossil fuels, ~6GtC/yr, is pretty small when compared to other natural sources such as soil respiration, 120 GtC/yr.  The level of CO2 in the atmosphere is increasing and that will trap more heat.  I just don't buy that human activity is the overwhelming cause for climate change or phenomenon such as the current heat wave in Europe. 

The smart people I know all believe the same thing...it's not necessarily the amount of GHG that we are releasing, it's the rate and scale we are releasing them in a short period of time.  All the other things you mention are natural causes that have been happening for billions of years.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2022, 11:02:45 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 08:15:29 AM

I stumbled across this on FB:

(https://i.imgur.com/VZASq98.png)

Canes get the #1 seed because of NFL talent?  OAM will love this list

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 11:13:35 AM

The increase in CO2 is clearly due to human activity.  One can measure this using isotopic ratios of carbon in atmospheric CO2.

Natural sources of CO2 generate a pretty constant amoung, and it's enriched in C14 for obvious reasons.  Fossil fuel induced CO2 is C14 depleted.

We KNOW CO2 levels are increasing and we KNOW it's largely due to buring fossil fuels.  How that impacts climate (and weather) is not what I'd call known.  It gets complicated.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 12:48:15 PM

White House could declare climate emergency as soon as Wednesday: sources | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/3565619-white-house-could-declare-climate-emergency-as-soon-as-wednesday-sources/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2022, 03:17:49 PM

and spend $$$ to put up a rather large umbrella?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 19, 2022, 04:06:50 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 12:48:15 PM

White House could declare climate emergency as soon as Wednesday: sources | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/3565619-white-house-could-declare-climate-emergency-as-soon-as-wednesday-sources/)

just another way to bypass congress and push the green agenda

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 04:14:08 PM

My guess is the EO is long on words and very short on real impact.

I don't know what it could really do of substance, probably "order" the EPA to amass figures on who is polluting, or something.  It looks like a show, to me, political optics.  If a President COULD do something of substance, why didn't he do it when he took office?

A LOT of these EOs amount to nothing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2022, 04:18:17 PM

SMDH

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 19, 2022, 04:18:43 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 19, 2022, 04:06:50 PM

just another way to bypass congress and push the green agenda

How many consecutive years of record temps would be enough for you to give a shit?  How many western states have to be on fire?  1 more?  10 more?  
Climate change naysayers are akin to the mouth-breathers demanding a missing link to prove evolution, while ignoring the numerous transitional hominid forms that existed over the last few million years.
You require a tipping point that can't be reversed in order to even acknowledge the reality of the situation.  You require your boat to be completely sunk in order to admit there's a leak in the hull.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2022, 04:19:55 PM

yes, declaring an emergency is easy, doing something substantial is another

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 19, 2022, 04:21:56 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 19, 2022, 11:02:45 AM

Canes get the #1 seed because of NFL talent?  OAM will love this list

Well especially with that team, I'm not sure why people credit the backups that didn't even really play in the 2001 season.  It's just so stupid.

Anyway, on that little bracket, it's funny - the only team I'd pick to beat 19 LSU isn't even on it.  You can score on that Tiger team - any NC could.  But you'd need maybe the best pass defense ever....which is 2011 Alabama's.  Don't see them on the bracket, so I don't see anyone else to pick.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2022, 04:24:28 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 19, 2022, 04:18:43 PM

How many consecutive years of record temps would be enough for you to give a shit?  How many western states have to be on fire?  1 more?  10 more? 

giving a shit or 10 won't save the planet

what would you propose the President do on Wednesday?

lockdown the entire country except for essential workers?
ban watering the lawn and golf course?
ration gasoline?
ban air conditioning ??

ground all fights?
shutdown all coal plants?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 04:28:55 PM

It's fine to worry about CC, I do myself, but the hard bottom line reality is the "we" globally are NOT going to do nearly enough to stop it.

My real hope is that the models are wrong, and not in the bad way.

This idea the US can spend money to do "something" will make more than a tenth of a degree difference is just technically incorrect.  We're behind the curve already.  This is why you never see a realistic PLAN to make a real change.  There isn't one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 19, 2022, 04:33:34 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 19, 2022, 04:24:28 PM

giving a shit or 10 won't save the planet

The planet isn't at risk, lol.  Our cushy way of life is.  
Maybe having giant cities in the desert isn't a good plan.
Maybe shrugging and just giving up isn't a good plan.

When we find a Texas-sized asteroid headed for earth, we should just shrug and give up, right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 04:39:46 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 19, 2022, 04:33:34 PM

When we find a Texas-sized asteroid headed for earth, we should just shrug and give up, right?

Pretty much, with current technology, unless we found it really really early, like 20 years ahead of time.

There simply is not much we can do practicably to combat climate change in the US.  A small nudge at best, at considerable cost.

The numbers are inexorable.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2022, 04:41:11 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 19, 2022, 04:33:34 PM

Maybe having giant cities in the desert isn't a good plan.

maybe, but there's not a good plan to move everyone out of Arizona and Nevada
or even New Orleans - which seems to have issues with the climate from time to time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 19, 2022, 04:42:13 PM

Just another example of the smartest animal not living in balance with nature, as all other animals do.  Just do what's most comfortable and ignore the long-term effects.....just like a corporation needing perpetual growth every quarter.
Asinine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 19, 2022, 04:43:10 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 19, 2022, 04:41:11 PM

maybe, but there's not a good plan to move everyone out of Arizona and Nevada
or even New Orleans - which seems to have issues with the climate from time to time

If that many can move in, that many can move out.

If we can put that much carbon in the air, we can do the opposite, if it's a priority. 
.
Sorry, I can't fall in with the plan of purposely causing a major problem and then shrugging that the fix costs too much.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 04:43:42 PM

It may be asinine, and it's far from ideal, but it's not going to change meaningfully no matter how much one complains.  You need some kind of outline of a rough draft of a plan to change a thing.  We don't have one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 04:44:36 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 19, 2022, 04:43:10 PM

If that many can move in, that many can move out.

If we can put that much carbon in the air, we can do the opposite, if it's a priority. 

You seem to think these things are easy.  Lay out some sort of plan for us then.

It's laughable naivete'.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 19, 2022, 04:47:58 PM

Why is it up to me to formulate a plan to fix someone else's asinine problem?  Because I noticed the problem? 

How long did it take the Soviets to empty Pripyat?  Don't know, but they did it.  If we could run all the natives off their lands, we can gradually empty desert cities.  I don't recall saying it would be easy.  It wouldn't be quick. 

Speeding towards a cliff and keeping your foot on the gas pedal is 'laughable naivete.'  Applying the brakes isn't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2022, 04:52:52 PM

well, you moved to the desert 

you should have noticed before the move, now you're part of the problem

Plenty of folks living in Zona that think there's a problem, but continue to live there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 04:53:18 PM

It's pretty easy to spot problems.

Providing practical solutions often is a challenge.

I suppose whining and offering nothing is one approach.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2022, 04:54:28 PM

it's very similar to not giving a shit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 19, 2022, 05:05:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 04:53:18 PM

It's pretty easy to spot problems.

Providing practical solutions often is a challenge.

I suppose whining and offering nothing is one approach.

Ask someone who is qualified to actually do it?
There's an island nation that is moving all of its citizens to somewhere in Asia because their land will be gone within the next century.  I'll delegate it to them.  How's that?

You guys get pretty pissy when a self-inflicted wound gets noticed and someone wants to bandage it.  Best to let it fester.
You've convinced me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 19, 2022, 05:22:39 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 19, 2022, 04:52:52 PM

well, you moved to the desert

you should have noticed before the move, now you're part of the problem

Plenty of folks living in Zona that think there's a problem, but continue to live there

Garbage post of the year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2022, 05:27:47 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 19, 2022, 05:05:59 PM

Ask someone who is qualified to actually do it?

the problem is that someone doesn't exist or has no voice or certainly hasn't been heard by the masses.
the problem is that there is no feasible plan.
whatever Biden may or may not do tomorrow won't be a solution.
It might be a small bandage to cover the festering sore, but it won't be a viable treatment for the illness.
most folks that are somewhat qualified think that very drastic measures need to be taken immediately to have even a remote chance of solving the issue.  Knowing that even the most drastic actions may not be enough.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2022, 05:28:48 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 19, 2022, 05:22:39 PM

Garbage post of the year.

I certainly don't deserve that much credit
maybe of the week, but it's only Tuesday

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 19, 2022, 05:29:17 PM

It's too hard.  Let's not try.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2022, 05:35:46 PM

many people are trying

the majority of people are not

perhaps we need better messaging

perhaps we need a few more western states to burn, perhaps Europe needs to burn to signal the alarm

there are more windmills in Iowa per capita than any other US state and still not enough.  There's a large coal plant within 20 miles of my house generating electricity

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 06:07:29 PM

Personally, I avoid whining about a problem if I cannot offer even the shred of an outline of a rough draft of some approach that would amelioerate it.

I'm saddened by the homeless problem.  I really do not have an effective solution beyond blindly throwing money at it, which I do fairly often.  But I'm not going to whine about it and claim someone ELSE should DO SOMETHING.  I wish they would obviously, and many are doing what they can.

Including me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 19, 2022, 06:10:55 PM

No more silently typing about it!!!!!!!!  It's "whining"  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 06:14:54 PM

Yeah, complaining about a problem while offering not even a whiff of a solution to me is the definition of whining.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 19, 2022, 06:21:32 PM

Is all this about some current problem caused by global warming or are we talking about avoiding a problem in the future

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 06:22:48 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 19, 2022, 06:21:32 PM

Is all this about some current problem caused by global warming or are we talking about avoiding a problem in the future

Probably some of both, more the latter of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 19, 2022, 06:48:42 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 06:22:48 PM

Probably some of both, more the latter of course.

I dont know of any current problem that would cause this fire drill so Im assuming its problems that are supposed to happen in the future

if thats the case its pretty hard to solve a problem that hasnt happened yet because there is no idea just what that problem is and there is no plan to fix the future problem that has not happened yet

as we have said over and over without cooperation from China and India we would just be pissing into the wind to crack down on emissions here in the US

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 19, 2022, 07:18:38 PM

Can we note that 2 pages back, I commented on the "best NCs tournament" post.....you know, FOOTBALL STUFF....and all anyone else cares to do is bitch about my whining.

I'd love nothing more than to focus on the football stuff here.  But then the chamber won't have its echo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 19, 2022, 07:52:38 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 19, 2022, 07:18:38 PM

Can we note that 2 pages back, I commented on the "best NCs tournament" post.....you know, FOOTBALL STUFF....and all anyone else cares to do is bitch about my whining.

I'd love nothing more than to focus on the football stuff here.  But then the chamber won't have its echo.

stop whining

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 19, 2022, 10:13:16 PM

One of my personal friends has a very large ranch. Like 10,000 acres. He has been contacted by a large o&g company about storing carbon underground. 

My company is pursuing something called circularity. Basically converting methane into Hydrogen. 

The smart people I know carry the title of Fellow. Only 3-4 in a company of tens of thousands. They all tell me that it’s coming. Not zero emissions, because that is not possible. But very much reduced emissions, carbon credits, carbon capture. Things will cost more, but everybody has to play by the same rules. 

It really doesn’t matter much at this point. If we 100% stopped emitting all man made GHG emissions it would take hundreds of years to start to see overall reductions. It will still get warmer and warmer during that time. That ship sailed decades ago. The only thing we can do is adapt, prepare for rising sea levels, slow our emissions, and hope some kind of technology will emerge that will allow us to start removing carbon and GHG from the atmosphere.  

I don’t know what that will look like, because removing carbon takes massive amounts of energy.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2022, 10:26:11 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 19, 2022, 07:18:38 PM

Can we note that 2 pages back, I commented on the "best NCs tournament" post.....you know, FOOTBALL STUFF....and all anyone else cares to do is bitch about my whining.

I'd love nothing more than to focus on the football stuff here.  But then the chamber won't have its echo.

then don't feed the echo

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 19, 2022, 11:31:07 PM

I love how everything is my fault.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on July 20, 2022, 01:42:45 AM

You boys are missing some good World T&F from Eugene, OR.   I like this more than the Olympics, because they actually show quite a bit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 20, 2022, 07:56:12 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 19, 2022, 04:43:10 PM

If that many can move in, that many can move out.

If we can put that much carbon in the air, we can do the opposite, if it's a priority.
.
Sorry, I can't fall in with the plan of purposely causing a major problem and then shrugging that the fix costs too much. 

(https://i.imgur.com/eEyWX5T.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2022, 08:02:30 AM

The volcano meme is completely false.  I think just about any meme on climate change is false or very misleading.  They often are complete fabrications.  Well, if you put any faith in scientific publications and data that is.

This ice-covered Icelandic volcano may emit more carbon dioxide than all of the country's other volcanoes combined | Science | AAAS (https://www.science.org/content/article/ice-covered-icelandic-volcano-may-emit-more-carbon-dioxide-all-country-s-other)

The core problem really is "we" aren't doing much about CO2 buildup because we really can't with anything like current economic growth.  We can put a dent in it of course with a lot of spending, but it would be useful to face reality I think.  The US could pass all sorts of climate spending bills and we'd end up down the road in the same place, perhaps with a very small impact.

EVs and wind and solar aren't going to save us, the math is inexorable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2022, 08:44:10 AM

This is the US projection by the EIA through 2050 for electrical generation:

(https://i.imgur.com/XgHGboz.png)

You can see that coal is still around, it is a heavy CO2 generator.  Natural gas declines slightly as a percentage, but is still around.    S&W grow a lot, but are still less than half of the equation, by 2050.  We're not anywhere close to net zero, and this doesn't cover transportation.  A lot of assumptions go into such models of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2022, 08:50:36 AM

So, how about the rest of the world?  Are they setting it all on fire and the US is lagging?

(https://i.imgur.com/uUDSiHY.png)

These charts include transportation.  Look at the coal figure (China/India).  How is it realistic to expect that magically to be replaced with something else?  It won't be.  That's a lot of CO2 to be generated globally no matter what the US does.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2022, 08:58:19 AM

"To bring one's self to believe in a truth that has just dawned upon one is the first step towards progress; to persuade others is the second." - Louis Pasteur

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2022, 09:20:23 AM

Coal is the worst offender, if we could just replace most coal in the US, it would be nice overall, I think.

But, that means nuclear, basically, which of course means we'd have atomic bombs scattered about ready to explode.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 20, 2022, 10:10:38 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 20, 2022, 08:50:36 AM

So, how about the rest of the world?  Are they setting it all on fire and the US is lagging?

(https://i.imgur.com/uUDSiHY.png)

These charts include transportation.  Look at the coal figure (China/India).  How is it realistic to expect that magically to be replaced with something else?  It won't be.  That's a lot of CO2 to be generated globally no matter what the US does.

didnt somebody else very wise just post that yesterday

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2022, 11:19:22 AM

Mebbe, mebbe a miracle occurs, it could happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2022, 12:17:59 PM

I'm hoping for some type of scientific break through

Obviously wind and solar continue to improve - we need a quantum leap

I'm not sure building a better battery is enough, but batteries continue to improve

some other type of technology to produce electricity or remove carbon would be even better

I think money for more research is a better plan than subsidies for current technology or mandates

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2022, 12:23:09 PM

Removing CO2 from the air sounds, to me, like a real thermodynamic nightmare, entropy is not something we can work around.

Fusion would be nice of course, but appears to be well off in the future.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2022, 12:46:29 PM

perhaps some type of improvement in nuclear that would be able to safely replace coal fired plants.

and could be built relatively quickly

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 20, 2022, 12:47:19 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 20, 2022, 08:02:30 AM

The volcano meme is completely false.  I think just about any meme on climate change is false or very misleading.  They often are complete fabrications.  Well, if you put any faith in scientific publications and data that is.

This ice-covered Icelandic volcano may emit more carbon dioxide than all of the country's other volcanoes combined | Science | AAAS (https://www.science.org/content/article/ice-covered-icelandic-volcano-may-emit-more-carbon-dioxide-all-country-s-other)

The core problem really is "we" aren't doing much about CO2 buildup because we really can't with anything like current economic growth.  We can put a dent in it of course with a lot of spending, but it would be useful to face reality I think.  The US could pass all sorts of climate spending bills and we'd end up down the road in the same place, perhaps with a very small impact.

EVs and wind and solar aren't going to save us, the math is inexorable.

I agree that the meme is wrong, but I do also beleive that volcanos put out more CO2 in a matter of days than all of mankind does in years. Yet someone, we are going to stop CO2 from "polluting" the atomosphere? 

Also, CO2 is NOT something we want to curtail in our atomosphere. Plant life on earth depends on an abundance of atomospheric CO2 to survive. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2022, 12:53:29 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 20, 2022, 12:47:19 PM

I agree that the meme is wrong, but I do also beleive that volcanos put out more CO2 in a matter of days than all of mankind does in years. Yet someone, we are going to stop CO2 from "polluting" the atomosphere?

Also, CO2 is NOT something we want to curtail in our atomosphere. Plant life on earth depends on an abundance of atomospheric CO2 to survive.

No, they don't, at all.  And yes we need some CO2 in the air, the planet would be quite a bit colder without it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2022, 12:57:43 PM

Are Volcanoes or Humans Harder on the Atmosphere? - Scientific American (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earthtalks-volcanoes-or-humans/)

According to the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), the world’s volcanoes, both on land and undersea, generate about 200 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) annually, while our automotive and industrial activities cause some 24 billion tons of CO2 emissions every year worldwide. Despite the arguments to the contrary, the facts speak for themselves: Greenhouse gas emissions from volcanoes comprise less than one percent of those generated by today’s human endeavors.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on July 20, 2022, 12:58:13 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 20, 2022, 12:46:29 PM

perhaps some type of improvement in nuclear that would be able to safely replace coal fired plants.

and could be built relatively quickly

Nuclear power plants could be built relatively quickly if is weren't imho overly regulated and the NIMBY people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2022, 01:01:39 PM

Nuke plans could perhaps help quite a bit, but they really are not practicable as solutions in this political climate.  E.g., it's not going to happen.

A good step would be to settle on one nuclear design and built every power reactor to that design for a decade or more.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 20, 2022, 01:37:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 20, 2022, 09:20:23 AM

Coal is the worst offender, if we could just replace most coal in the US, it would be nice overall, I think.

But, that means nuclear, basically, which of course means we'd have atomic bombs scattered about ready to explode.

But this isn't really the case at all is it?  I helped my son do a research paper one time comparing the deaths from nuclear energy compared to all other forms and the deaths caused from nuclear power, from the 50's until now doesn't even come close to the amount of deaths caused from burning FF.  Most deaths from FF are caused from the emissions (various disesaes brought on by particulates), mining for coal, etc etc.  Nuclear was shockingly low, even taking into consideration Chernobyl and Fukishima.  

We do have a waste disposal problem, which can be solved by either going through with a selection site or turning the waste into more fuel like France does.  

Any conversation about curbing GHG emissions should always involve nuclear.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2022, 01:42:33 PM

I was being sarcastic about the bomb thing.  But plenty of people think that.  Nuclear is simply off the table in the US.  There are two more power reactors about to come on line and then ....

The SMRs MIGHT start a new trend.  Or not.  To do large scale nuclear we'd need to change minds and regulations.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 20, 2022, 06:55:06 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 20, 2022, 01:42:33 PM

I was being sarcastic about the bomb thing.  But plenty of people think that.  Nuclear is simply off the table in the US.  There are two more power reactors about to come on line and then ....

The SMRs MIGHT start a new trend.  Or not.  To do large scale nuclear we'd need to change minds and regulations.

I know some of the companies in my region have eyes set on nuclear. Not sure how it'll progress. One company had to get bailed out in what was deemed a bit of a boondoggle. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 21, 2022, 12:41:17 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 20, 2022, 07:56:12 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/eEyWX5T.png)

:57:  This is about what I expect from "you people."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 21, 2022, 12:42:20 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 20, 2022, 01:01:39 PM

Nuke plans could perhaps help quite a bit, but they really are not practicable as solutions in this political climate.  E.g., it's not going to happen.

A good step would be to settle on one nuclear design and built every power reactor to that design for a decade or more. 

Uhh, okay, good luck finding x-number of identical sites, lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 21, 2022, 12:43:39 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 20, 2022, 12:46:29 PM

perhaps some type of improvement in nuclear that would be able to safely replace coal fired plants.

and could be built relatively quickly

These 2 words don't go together.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2022, 06:06:07 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 21, 2022, 12:42:20 AM

Uhh, okay, good luck finding x-number of identical sites, lol.

France does this, I presume we can as well.  They also reprocess spent fuel to reduce waste.

I think the main point is without nuclear we can't really do much to reduce CO2 production and nuclear is effectively off the table as an option.  Replacing coal would be a good objective in my mind, and nuclear is the most obvious option for that, but, we can't do it for PR reasons in effect.

It's a Kobayashi Maru situation.

The PWR plants were all developed by Framatome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framatome) (now Areva (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Areva)) from the initial Westinghouse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westinghouse_Electric_Company) design.^{[73] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France#cite_note-nyt-19810124-73)[74] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France#cite_note-fundinguniverse-1998-74)[75] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France#cite_note-pubs-1976-75)} All currently operating PWR plants are of three design variations, having output powers of 900 MWe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MWe), 1300 MWe, and 1450 MWe. The repeated use of these standard variants of a design has afforded France the greatest degree of nuclear plant standardization in the world.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2022, 06:51:10 AM

The true meaning of Einstein's most famous equation: E=mc² - Big Think (https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/meaning-emc2/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2cxkshXo1UQuWTtgagDs3T_iOStf8zzewBi1ROzoGjr2sq84T4-3DXqOU#Echobox=1658289939)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 21, 2022, 10:33:03 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 21, 2022, 12:41:17 AM

:57:  This is about what I expect from "you people."

Define "you people".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 21, 2022, 11:18:52 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 21, 2022, 10:33:03 AM

Define "you people".

People from the center of Northern Ohio.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2022, 01:58:13 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 21, 2022, 12:42:20 AM

Uhh, okay, good luck finding x-number of identical sites, lol.

All that would change from site to site is the ground conditions. I too never understood why each reactor needed its own design, when all that really changes is the substructure. Even the cooling effluent conditions are the same - it's all contained in a pipe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2022, 01:59:02 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 21, 2022, 12:43:39 AM

These 2 words don't go together.

Safely and quickly?

Like a "vaccine" or something?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 21, 2022, 02:07:42 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2022, 01:58:13 PM

All that would change from site to site is the ground conditions. I too never understood why each reactor needed its own design, when all that really changes is the substructure. Even the cooling effluent conditions are the same - it's all contained in a pipe.

Engineering firms are greedy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2022, 02:14:39 PM

Emerging small nuclear reactors may significantly contribute to grid decarbonization by 2050: study | Utility Dive (https://www.utilitydive.com/news/emerging-small-nuclear-reactor-smr-nuscale-grid-decarbonization/626707/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 21, 2022, 02:25:59 PM

just what I was hoping for.............

hurray!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2022, 03:26:10 PM

My kids sent me the painting for F Day, I finally got it framed and hung.  The reflections are not that bad in real life.  My wife bought me the periodic table.  This is in my "office" and guest bedroom on occasion.  We're having guests from France come in October, they may think I'm a bit odd.  That is Pete Smith pitching to me a few camps back.  I'd like to say I took him downtown but ... I guess I can say it anyway.

(https://i.imgur.com/qx8Qkk3.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2022, 04:16:03 PM

Fact vs. Fiction: Did Hollywood Get the Chamberlain Story Right? | HistoryNet (https://www.historynet.com/fact-vs-fiction-did-hollywood-get-the-joshua-chamberlain-story-right/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=fb_historynet&fbclid=IwAR3mwUSG0c9q9nol_9O6OR-2xPCG_2rhhvlUqO-LUKY7NIsCEz89osi-U6s)

Yeah, I've walked that area, it's incredibly rocky, the Rebs would never have gotten many cannon on top of LT.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 21, 2022, 04:57:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 21, 2022, 04:16:03 PM

Fact vs. Fiction: Did Hollywood Get the Chamberlain Story Right? | HistoryNet (https://www.historynet.com/fact-vs-fiction-did-hollywood-get-the-joshua-chamberlain-story-right/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=fb_historynet&fbclid=IwAR3mwUSG0c9q9nol_9O6OR-2xPCG_2rhhvlUqO-LUKY7NIsCEz89osi-U6s)

Yeah, I've walked that area, it's incredibly rocky, the Rebs would never have gotten many cannon on top of LT.

Ive walked it too

they should have gone to the right like Hood wanted

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2022, 04:57:57 PM

Longstreet wanted to shift right on Day Three with everyone.  Lee didn't concur.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 21, 2022, 05:03:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 21, 2022, 04:57:57 PM

Longstreet wanted to shift right on Day Three with everyone.  Lee didn't concur.

Whats amazing is that this battle was the reverse of past battles in that it was the South attacking a reinforced fixed position instead of the North

It seems as if Lee just forgot that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2022, 05:08:35 PM

Yeah, a lot has been written about Lee's decision of course (including my Book Two).  I lean to thinking Lee wanted it all to be over and didn't want to shift about waiting for Meade to get around to attacking him.  Meade has just assumed that position as head of the A of the P, and could be presumed to be cautious in movement and offensive action.  The artillery barrage may have been thought to harm the Union lines enough that a sharp attack in the middle would breakthrough and isolate two halves of the Union army.

I wonder what would have happened had Lincoln let the South go, NC and VA had not seceded at that point.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2022, 05:15:52 PM

Astronomers poring through images from new space telescope : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2022/07/21/1112356969/the-new-science-coming-from-the-james-webb-telescope-has-astronomers-giddy)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2022, 08:40:38 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/rwNUFJq.png)

Name this aircraft...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on July 22, 2022, 08:51:29 AM

YF-23 I think

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2022, 08:54:00 AM

Good job, I would not have recalled that and thought it was a "movie plane".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on July 22, 2022, 09:02:05 AM

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/Trestle_0001_03.jpg/1280px-Trestle_0001_03.jpg)


Largest all wood object constructed by man.  No metal nails or bolts.  Used to test US military aircraft against EMP.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 22, 2022, 09:53:17 AM

Damn, I've been lying the ladies this whole time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2022, 04:41:54 PM

It`s about time to start presenting athletes that are going to compete in World Aerobatic Championships in Leszno this year! Let`s begin with the United States of America Dream Team!

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/285101747_151426410781743_1111489649918239319_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s600x600&_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=uczLGAp0wYQAX-O3MtD&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT8kR65pABknktS9zib1CLgC0DFKb7mBrx365ykEWxuFrQ&oe=62DFF8BB)

Aaron is a friend of mine

https://www.facebook.com/FAIWAC2022/ (https://www.facebook.com/FAIWAC2022/)

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/285125731_151426707448380_4129902417756318019_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=OmnPoXQQw-EAX-B-ekh&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT8P3U-168MTShVWz-o1-iFlOsqGN-Bq9UNaZbnpx4fj5A&oe=62E0BDA1)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2022, 05:55:05 PM

NASA's Artemis mission — which will ultimately return humans to the moon's surface for the first time in 50 years, including the first woman and person of color to set foot there — could launch as soon as late August, agency officials said in a news briefing on Wednesday (July 20).

The first phase of the mission, dubbed Artemis-1, will see NASA's massive new Space Launch System (SLS) launch on a four-to-six-week-long trip around the far side of the moon and back. NASA has eyed Aug. 29, Sept. 2 or Sept. 5 as the earliest possible launch dates for the mission, NASA associate administrator Jim Free told reporters.


_________________________________________________ _____________

good thing the rocket doesn't burn gasoline

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 22, 2022, 06:38:24 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 22, 2022, 05:55:05 PM

NASA's Artemis mission — which will ultimately return humans to the moon's surface for the first time in 50 years, including the first woman and person of color to set foot there — could launch as soon as late August, agency officials said in a news briefing on Wednesday (July 20).

The first phase of the mission, dubbed Artemis-1, will see NASA's massive new Space Launch System (SLS) launch on a four-to-six-week-long trip around the far side of the moon and back. NASA has eyed Aug. 29, Sept. 2 or Sept. 5 as the earliest possible launch dates for the mission, NASA associate administrator Jim Free told reporters.


_________________________________________________ _____________

good thing the rocket doesn't burn gasoline

How do folks feel about this?  Just curious.  This was one of Trump's very specific, very personal, directives. Nobody else has given a shit about a moon landing in about 5 decades...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2022, 06:48:11 PM

been there done that

unless we can mine crude oil or lithium or something to save the planet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 22, 2022, 09:19:49 PM

Or this

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fis2.ecplaza.com%2Fecplaza2%2Fproducts%2Fd%2Fda%2Fda5%2F519141011%2Fblue-moon-beer.jpg&f=1&nofb=1) (https://is2.ecplaza.com/ecplaza2/products/d/da/da5/519141011/blue-moon-beer.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 22, 2022, 09:28:57 PM

^^^^^^^^^^^

If you like that, then you should try this-- it's the best Belgian-style witbier on the planet (yes, better than Hoegaarden which was the original inspiration for the modern version of the style).

(https://i.imgur.com/qHdYLwK.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 22, 2022, 09:39:33 PM

Had one before I don't drink them a lot.Friends  party,Hellz ya tasty ,swapped it out for a sixer of Pabst or Hamm's I forgot

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 22, 2022, 09:42:36 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on July 22, 2022, 09:39:33 PM

Had one before I don't drink them a lot.Friends  party,Hellz ya tasty ,swapped it out for a sixer of Pabst or Hamm's I forgot

Pot stirrer been taking lessons from Fearless... :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 22, 2022, 09:56:56 PM

Oh no it would have cost at least 12 Budwaters

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on July 22, 2022, 09:57:12 PM

Speaking of wood. World's tallest Timber Skyscraper about completed.  This 284 foot beaut just around corner for my old apartment in downtown Milwaukee.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 22, 2022, 09:58:23 PM

I had no idea that timber skyscraper was even a thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on July 22, 2022, 10:06:33 PM

It's quietly become a buzzy thing.   Sustainability and all that.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 22, 2022, 11:10:51 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on July 22, 2022, 10:06:33 PM

It's quietly become a buzzy thing.  Sustainability and all that. 

Eh, I'd rather see them built entirely of stone. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 23, 2022, 12:01:43 AM

That's called a castle, which is European, and thus - the devil.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 23, 2022, 12:17:37 AM

Quote from: utee94 on July 22, 2022, 06:38:24 PM

How do folks feel about this?  Just curious.  This was one of Trump's very specific, very personal, directives. Nobody else has given a shit about a moon landing in about 5 decades...

I care very much. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 23, 2022, 01:31:01 AM

I went drinking with people younger than me tonight. It’s too late and was probably not wise.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 23, 2022, 01:31:58 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 22, 2022, 06:48:11 PM

been there done that

unless we can mine crude oil or lithium or something to save the planet

Need that moon oil, for sure. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 23, 2022, 01:35:38 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 23, 2022, 01:31:58 AM

Need that moon oil, for sure.

I like the cheese better

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2022, 07:22:53 AM

Quote from: MarqHusker on July 22, 2022, 10:06:33 PM

It's quietly become a buzzy thing.  Sustainability and all that. 

Photos: How Atlanta’s first new timber-framed office building turned out - Curbed Atlanta

 (https://atlanta.curbed.com/atlanta-development/2019/11/25/20980941/atlanta-t3-atlantic-station-west-midtown-timber-framed-office)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2022, 08:36:33 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 23, 2022, 12:01:43 AM

That's called a castle, which is European, and thus - the devil.

Tell us about your visits to Europe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2022, 08:37:20 AM

Quote from: MarqHusker on July 22, 2022, 09:57:12 PM

Speaking of wood. World's tallest Timber Skyscraper about completed.  This 284 foot beaut just around corner for my old apartment in downtown Milwaukee.

How many trees, and what kind?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 23, 2022, 08:44:24 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2022, 08:36:33 AM

Tell us about your visits to Europe.

Well I keep being told that their good ideas won't work here, so it must be bad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2022, 08:53:02 AM

One thing I do like in Europe is their zoning laws keep development from spreading like kudzu.  This has a downside of course.

But it keeps the place looking nice for the most part.  I noticed driving to Asheville how many scenic vistas are now marred with crappy "development".  Another thing I like about Europe is that under 40% of their HS grads go to college, versus nearly 70% here.  And their college coursework is highly focused on their degree area, they don't have chem majors required to take history and English.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2022, 09:11:11 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 23, 2022, 08:53:02 AM

One thing I do like in Europe is their zoning laws keep development from spreading like kudzu.  This has a downside of course.

But it keeps the place looking nice for the most part.  I noticed driving to Asheville how many scenic vistas are now marred with crappy "development".  Another thing I like about Europe is that under 40% of their HS grads go to college, versus nearly 70% here.  And their college coursework is highly focused on their degree area, they don't have chem majors required to take history and English.

I guess.

(https://i.imgur.com/u0Ug2Bj.jpg)


That's Rome. 

I do like their educational models, and the food.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2022, 09:12:06 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 23, 2022, 08:44:24 AM

Well I keep being told that their good ideas won't work here, so it must be bad.

Which good ideas? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2022, 09:26:10 AM

I think overall rural Europe is more scenic than the US.  They keep the countryside largely free of strip malls and junk yards and "development".

And some of their cities are really nice as well, though not so much in France.  I didn't see a bad side of Lyon but there likely is one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2022, 09:50:28 AM

Florence is clean and free from Graffiti in key spots.

Venice is not free in many spots. Of course that is a different country, it seems.

Italy as a whole is mostly beautiful.

Amsterdam is very clean. Barcelona and Lisbon too. Madrid is not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 23, 2022, 09:51:41 AM

development = growing economy = money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2022, 09:54:32 AM

I think the zoning boards in most US areas is dominated by developers, probably indirectly, so they get almost rubber stamp approvals for strip malls and the like.

Midtown has a review process which is not mandatory but seems to be respected by developers and it really helps a lot, I think, I can see evidence of their workings and influence on projects.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 23, 2022, 09:55:24 AM

Quote from: utee94 on July 22, 2022, 09:28:57 PM

^^^^^^^^^^^

If you like that, then you should try this-- it's the best Belgian-style witbier on the planet (yes, better than Hoegaarden which was the original inspiration for the modern version of the style).

(https://i.imgur.com/qHdYLwK.png)

blue moon isn't terrible
until someone puts an orange in it
I'd probably prefer the Celis

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2022, 10:05:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 23, 2022, 09:54:32 AM

I think the zoning boards in most US areas is dominated by developers, probably indirectly, so they get almost rubber stamp approvals for strip malls and the like.

Midtown has a review process which is not mandatory but seems to be respected by developers and it really helps a lot, I think, I can see evidence of their workings and influence on projects.

Not quite, but close.

In my many decades of work, I've noticed a whole lot of corruption.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 23, 2022, 10:32:07 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 23, 2022, 09:55:24 AM

blue moon isn't terrible
until someone puts an orange in it
I'd probably prefer the Celis

I don't ever fruit the beer.

But some natives in Belgium and Germany do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 23, 2022, 10:33:53 AM

Trump wanted a moon landing in 2024 for his second term. Of course he didn’t get there so that’s out the window. 

The SLS rocket is a joke of course.  It’s 5 years behind, actually 6. It was spec’d out by the senate to keep industry in their districts busy. It basically uses space shuttle legacy hardware.  The main engines are literally the same ones used by the shuttle except that they’re not being reused. The side boosters are evolved from ge shuttle. It will cost 2 billion dollars to launch each one and they won’t have enough money or rockets to launch more than 1 per year. 

The real thing to watch for in Artemis is the HLS, or human landing system. Space X is developing what they call Starship / Heavy Booster which is a fully reusable system that is more powerful than a Saturn V. It’s much bigger than the SLS rocket in fact. 

Starship will be boosted into space by Super heavy. SH will return to its launch pad, literally landing from the same pad that it launched from. It will then be refueled and another version of starship that is basically a giant gas tank will be fitted to it. It will relaunch, the fuel depot will dock with the starship and top off its fuel. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 23, 2022, 10:41:53 AM

Now a refueled SS will head to the moon, where it will dock with the Orion capsule that is basically 1.5 times the size of the Apollo capsule. SS will dwarf Orion, like 20 times bigger. SS will take 4 people down to the moon.  It will then bring them back to Orion where they will then return to the earth. 

NASA picked Space X for this over some legacy space contractors. There were a lot of mad Congressmen and women. The thing is, everybody knows that SX can do the job for the whole mission. They can launch, land, and return the astronauts back to the earth, and since SS/SH is fully reusable they can do it for millions, not billions. Like literally billions of dollars cheaper. A lot of smart people think that NASA will only launch SLS ( senate launch system) once or twice. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2022, 10:48:22 AM

Whatever happened to the name that city thread?

(https://i.imgur.com/MeZeMFL.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2022, 10:48:38 AM

What sort of lunar lander are they using?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 23, 2022, 10:48:47 AM

cant wait to did up one of those black monoliths 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2022, 10:50:05 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 23, 2022, 10:48:38 AM

What sort of lunar lander are they using?

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/as-artemis-moves-forward-nasa-picks-spacex-to-land-next-americans-on-moon/

Looks like an old sci fi flick.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 23, 2022, 10:50:25 AM

Firenze

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 23, 2022, 10:57:29 AM

The SLS rocket is such a joke that it does not have enough power to land a combined Orion capsule with an Apollo style lander ( LM). There is another version in the works called block 2 that will be more capable and powerful and actually stronger than the Saturn V. Most don’t think it will fly before 2030, or never. It’s worth noting that Orion is much heavier than the old Apollo CSM. 

The first Artemis mission will fly an empty capsule to the moon where it will stay for a few weeks. It will check out it’s systems etc. it is not equipped with life support systems. It will return to the earth and splash down. 

Artemis II will fly a crewed ( manned!) capsule to the moon for the first time. It will be like Apollo 8 ( 1968 for those who remember). It will not launch no earlier than 2024. Artemis III, the manned landing, is slated no earlier than 2025. Most agree it will not take place before 2026 or 2027 if you look close enough to the details. AIII is the one that is supposed to use the SS lander. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 23, 2022, 10:58:14 AM

Quote from: utee94 on July 23, 2022, 10:32:07 AM

I don't ever fruit the beer.

But some natives in Belgium and Germany do.

how bad could scurvy be?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2022, 11:00:42 AM

I figure if a beer is improved with fruit, it wasn't very good beer in the first place.

My wife in on a kick of blending cheap rosé wine and grapefruit juice.  The combination is actually better than the rosé alone, but that is because the rosé is just bad wine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 23, 2022, 11:01:49 AM

There are quite a few rose' wines I like.  Mostly from Provence.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2022, 11:01:57 AM

Quote from: utee94 on July 23, 2022, 10:50:25 AM

Firenze

Close. It's an old rival.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 23, 2022, 11:02:09 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 23, 2022, 10:48:38 AM

What sort of lunar lander are they using?

(https://i.imgur.com/jJuZal7.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 23, 2022, 11:03:42 AM

if a person likes a fruity taste with their beer.  to each their own

heck some folks like cheap rosé wine and grapefruit juice

I like grapefruit juice as long as it contains enough Tito's

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 23, 2022, 11:08:59 AM

The picture above compares the sizes of the landers. On the left is the original LM from the 60’s. Next are the two that nasa didn’t pick. SS, on the right, dwarfs them all. 

I don’t think the public at large yet realizes how much capability we will have once we get to the moon. I have always been somewhat of a space nut, and I understand that the average person doesn’t care, but this is going to be a game changer for not just the United States but the world. 

We will be able to do things at the moon that will be straight out of sci fi. A landed SS could immediately be turned into a permanent base. Other SS landed in close proximity could bring supplies. We could mine the moon. Do real exploration. 

The longest stay on the moon was what nasa called the j missions. They were about 3 days, and they traveled a few km from the lm. Apollo 11 had an EVA that lasted only a few hours. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 23, 2022, 11:09:38 AM

who woke up the space cadets???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 23, 2022, 11:12:38 AM

Utee did it!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 23, 2022, 11:14:31 AM

Quote from: Gigem on July 23, 2022, 11:12:38 AM

Utee did it!

Indeed I did.  I was legitimately interested in, who might care about landing on the moon.

Gigem-- I'm still curious WHY you are so keen on it?  Obviously you're deeply into the tech, is that the reason?  Or is there something else?  

My friend who's an aerospace engineer at NASA in Houston, believes in it, as prep for future Mars missions.  Makes sense to me, but I'm interested in what others think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 23, 2022, 11:17:45 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 22, 2022, 05:55:05 PM

NASA's Artemis mission — which will ultimately return humans to the moon's surface for the first time in 50 years, including the first woman and person of color to set foot there — could launch as soon as late August, agency officials said in a news briefing on Wednesday (July 20).

The first phase of the mission, dubbed Artemis-1, will see NASA's massive new Space Launch System (SLS) launch on a four-to-six-week-long trip around the far side of the moon and back. NASA has eyed Aug. 29, Sept. 2 or Sept. 5 as the earliest possible launch dates for the mission, NASA associate administrator Jim Free told reporters.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 23, 2022, 11:20:38 AM

Nerd

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 23, 2022, 11:22:07 AM

Space x has been pushing nasa and their political leaders to think bigger. Right now nasa is thinking flags and footprints again. Namely to reassert our dominance in space, re-beat the communists ( China) and mix in a little science. 

Space X is telling them that they have an almost unlimited volume compared to the Apollo style landers for a fraction of the price. There is a large amount of confirmed ice at the moon, near the South Pole in areas that are permanently shaded from the sun. This water could be used to make rocket fuel in what’s known as in situ resource utilization. ISRU. 

Space and the moon are boring because the govt and nasa has made them that way. Missions are few and far between, expensive, and for most people out of reach. Space X already has paying customers to take them around the moon.  Look up “ Blue Moon”. It will only be a matter of time before someone pays to land on the moon. And it will cost hundreds of millions to do it, not billions. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 23, 2022, 11:26:15 AM

Quote from: utee94 on July 23, 2022, 11:20:38 AM

Nerd

says the nerd that is way above my class

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 23, 2022, 11:27:21 AM

Can't spell geek without EE.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 23, 2022, 11:39:32 AM

Quote from: utee94 on July 23, 2022, 11:14:31 AM

Indeed I did.  I was legitimately interested in, who might care about landing on the moon.

Gigem-- I'm still curious WHY you are so keen on it?  Obviously you're deeply into the tech, is that the reason?  Or is there something else? 

My friend who's an aerospace engineer at NASA in Houston, believes in it, as prep for future Mars missions.  Makes sense to me, but I'm interested in what others think.

I've always been captivated and drawn to the space program.  Despite being about an hour away from the JSC I've never worked for the space program, so I have no personal skin into the game.  

I was born in the mid 70's, back when NASA was the golden seal of American ingenuity and pride.  I can remember when they launched the space shuttle and we were told that we would be landing on Mars by 2000.  As time progressed and I realized that the shuttle program really never amounted to what it was hyped to be I kinda lost interest.  The space program, since 1972, has mostly been about jobs with a little science mixed in.  The ISS is more of a political vehicle than a research vehicle. Sure, it does provide some benefit, but not worth the over $100 billion invested.  

I was excited when Bush II announced the return to the moon after the Columbia disaster of 2003.  Back to the moon by 2020 was his goal.  I realized immediately that it would never happen.  The original moonshot was done in less than 10 years.  Bush gave a timeline of 17 years to do something that we had done 40 years prior.  Constellation, as it was called, was cancelled in 2010 already overbudget and behind schedule.  SLS rose from the ashes as a replacement for space shuttle jobs.  Commercial rockets were sort of strung along as a gesture, not a real serious thing but enough money was put in that Space X was able to grab a few contracts and innovate.  Most people don't know this but Elon Musk came very close to going broke trying to get Tesla and Space X off the ground around 2009/2010.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 23, 2022, 11:39:58 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/Gn05jRk.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 23, 2022, 11:46:13 AM

When NASA decided to retire the Space Shuttle they needed a way to get the astronauts to the space station from American soil.  They gave Boeing a huge contract, about 4-5 billion dollars on a fixed contract (shocking for the space industry at the time).  Space X was given about half and expected to fail.  Boeing was widely expected to launch first, and there were doubts if Space X would ever launch.

Turns out Space X will be launching their 6th crew mission to the ISS later this summer.  Boeing has barely gotten off the ground.  Despite being given much more money and having a much longer and deeper space heritage they almost lost their first test mission due to software errors. Their second mission, delayed by 2 years, was successful.  They are expected to make their first test crewed flight later this year.  

In the time that Boeing and Space X were awarded the bids for the crewed missions SX developed the technology to be able to reuse their first stage boosters after landing them on a barge at sea.  SX has shifted the market.  Previously the launch market for non government payloads was dominated by the Russians and the ESA with their Arianne Rocket.  

Now?  Space X has completely taken the market from them.  Their launches are tens of millions less and SX makes more money because they are not throwing away the most expensive part of the rocket during launch.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 23, 2022, 11:58:08 AM

Utee, I'm sure your friend at NASA believes in what they are doing but at this point NASA is just another bloated bureaucracy that is stuck in the past with way too many employees and way too much money.  The joke is, what do you get when you give a team of engineers an unlimited budget and no deadline?  Answer:  Nothing.  Which has been mostly true.  

Space X will have SS operational before Artemis III, and maybe even before Artemis II is ready.  What's to stop them from making a landing attempt, even if unmanned, on the moon?  Why would NASA pay billions to launch SLS+Orion only to be unable to land on the moon without SS, when SS doesn't need SLS or Orion?  SS can 100% do the job without SLS, but SLS cannot do anything outside of orbit the moon.  

Elon has stated several times that the only reasons Space X exists is to make humans multiplanetary.  SS is designed to go to Mars from the get-go.  Yes, there are technology hurdles that will have to be conquered before humans can land on Mars with SS, but we are getting there quickly.  

Earth to Mars has a transit window every two years.  I believe that this year was the last window, the next won't be until 2024.  A lot of people believe that Elon will at the very least have SS operational enough to fly one to Mars unmanned, loaded with supplies.  Which leaves 2026 as the earliest a SS can make the trip to Mars manned.  It may not happen until 2028, or possibly even 2030.  

Either way it's a lot of excitement and will be a good thing for the US of A.  



It's weird to me that a lot of thing have been happening with regards to space, but very few people realize it.  Most don't even know that that US added another branch to the military (Trump did something right) called the USSF, or United States Space Force.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 23, 2022, 12:02:18 PM

Quote from: Gigem on July 23, 2022, 11:58:08 AM

Utee, I'm sure your friend at NASA believes in what they are doing....

He designs elements for the ISS, I think he's fine with what they're doing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 23, 2022, 12:54:37 PM

I really don’t keep up with the iss comings and going’s. Are they planning on adding new modules?  Because I thought it was mostly complete and now just maintaining what they’ve got. Some of which are 20 plus years old. 

There is a lot of chatter about Russia breaking out and the US needing to replace some of the functionality of the Russian modules such as the ability to reboost. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 23, 2022, 01:03:20 PM

Don't know about new modules, but they're always innovating and replacing current on-board components with new and improved ones.

With the global tensions with Russia, it wouldn't surprise me if they pull out (or are kicked out) of the ISS program, and then as you say, new modules and/or new functionality could become necessary.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2022, 01:39:35 PM

The ISS is not long for this world, metaphorically speaking.

Long ago, there was a proposal to build an electric launch system in the Andes that would propel something to about 3,000 mph up to 17,000 feet, then rockets would boost the rest of the way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 23, 2022, 01:46:48 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 23, 2022, 01:39:35 PM

The ISS is not long for this world, metaphorically speaking.

Long ago, there was a proposal to build an electric launch system in the Andes that would propel something to about 3,000 mph up to 17,000 feet, then rockets would boost the rest of the way.

It's a mass issue.  In order to get something big enough into space that would be able to do something meaningful you would have to expend a whole lot of energy simultaneously to get it to the point where it would have enough velocity to activate a small upper stage to get into orbit.  

There is something out there called spin launch that is seeking to do exactly that.  They will spin around in a vacuum centrifuge until they reach a certain speed, where they will be "let go" and launched almost to the edge of space where another upper stage takes over.  How it goes from a vacuum chamber into the atmosphere is anybody's guess.  It's also a very small object they are launching, but hope to scale up.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2022, 01:48:22 PM

Yes, it would take energy, but ground energy, not energy you had to use energy to lift.  The Saturn V first stage burned 15 tons of fuel per second, most of which was needed to accelerate the fuel.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2022, 01:53:28 PM

There is a grimy block near us about to be whooshed.  Fencing is up.  It's going to be a pretty substantial project.

(https://i.imgur.com/7TtEOWe.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 23, 2022, 01:55:14 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 23, 2022, 01:48:22 PM

Yes, it would take energy, but ground energy, not energy you had to use energy to lift.  The Saturn V first stage burned 15 tons of fuel per second, most of which was needed to accelerate the fuel.

You're right, but it's energy that has to be instantaneously transferred.  Not unlike a bullet being fired.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2022, 01:57:00 PM

This is a rendering of what is intended. Much of that is office space, which is curious to me these days.

(https://i.imgur.com/oUadwsf.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2022, 01:59:46 PM

Quote from: Gigem on July 23, 2022, 01:55:14 PM

You're right, but it's energy that has to be instantaneously transferred.  Not unlike a bullet being fired. 

The idea was for a rail gun, so the energy would be applied in rapid succession.  This is a proposal without the Andes part.


NASA Engineers Propose Combining a Rail Gun and a Scramjet to Fire Spacecraft Into Orbit (popsci.com)
 (https://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2010-11/nasa-engineers-propose-combining-rail-gun-and-scramjet-fire-spacecraft-orbit/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on July 23, 2022, 03:37:18 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2022, 08:37:20 AM

How many trees, and what kind?

These timber buildings are all using Glulam columns.  Not certain of species,  id guess western woods and possibly southern pines.    From videos and reading seems like solving the fire testing question was the impediment along with being able to produce materials cost effectively for purposes of building 1A structures.

Structure strength not the issue.   

Appears we will start seeing more of these.  I saw the Ascent in Milwaukee last week.  It's beautiful. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2022, 05:47:47 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/2grcQA3.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2022, 06:17:20 PM

Critics may have spent last two decades arguing over Paul Verhoeven’s message, but they’ve missed some of the more interesting military components to 'Starship Troopers' — details that might even be news an eagle-eyed film buff (taskandpurpose.com) (https://taskandpurpose.com/culture/starship-troopers-facts-trivia/?utm_campaign=trueanthem_manual&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_term=taskandpurpose&fbclid=IwAR30xf6EtONlsuF-DZLsBwYRfA51ZUWnTLfXGmsNClKSvvnTdpmWoySOjlc)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2022, 06:18:12 PM

Until recently, NASA's tentative extended plan was to cease operations in 2028, but now the Space Station is proposed to go on for another two years. Despite recent safety issues, NASA says that they have “high confidence that ISS life can be further extended through 2030.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 23, 2022, 06:43:24 PM

Sending up some duct tape and baling wire?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 25, 2022, 09:19:14 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/Sn3KPRo.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 25, 2022, 09:25:06 AM

Nubbz has a thread for that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 25, 2022, 09:55:42 AM

I thought that was too good for the B team.

:)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 25, 2022, 12:30:50 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 23, 2022, 01:48:22 PM

Yes, it would take energy, but ground energy, not energy you had to use energy to lift.  The Saturn V first stage burned 15 tons of fuel per second, most of which was needed to accelerate the fuel.

Sounds like my old Jeep!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2022, 08:55:38 AM

I thought this was a neat photo...

(https://i.imgur.com/xHu67jW.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2022, 12:28:35 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/bQdusKH.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 26, 2022, 12:32:44 PM

This is where I spent last week, camping.  Garner State Park.


(https://i.imgur.com/onQoN6I.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 26, 2022, 12:38:33 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 26, 2022, 12:32:44 PM

This is where I spent last week, camping.  Garner State Park.


(https://i.imgur.com/onQoN6I.jpg)

hey didnt somebody once write a song bout that place

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 26, 2022, 12:41:26 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 26, 2022, 12:38:33 PM

hey didnt somebody once write a song bout that place

Yup.  Maybe a couple or three.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 26, 2022, 12:48:17 PM

must be nice to be.......wait for it

Down at Garner State Park

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 26, 2022, 12:55:45 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 26, 2022, 12:48:17 PM

must be nice to be.......wait for it

Down at Garner State Park

It's playing on the jukebox almost constantly throughout the day.  I'll go and drop ten dollars into that thing just to choose songs that are NOT that song.

Now that I think about it, it's probably intentional and that's their angle.  Scheming bastages.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 26, 2022, 02:08:47 PM

coin collector – the exact elements you need to look for to find a ‘double die’ Lincoln penny worth $1,000s

https://www.the-sun.com/money/5840527/double-die-penny-lincoln-elements/ (https://www.the-sun.com/money/5840527/double-die-penny-lincoln-elements/)

I imagine at least one of Ya'll know something about coins and their worth.

With the market down is this a time when coins would have better value?

I've got a few old silver dollars (1922) and other coins laying around the house and in the safe deposit box.
I'm not a collector and my daughters have no interest.

I was thinking about selling them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 26, 2022, 03:02:47 PM

Im both a coin and stamp collector 

your right this is one place inflation feels good

course Id never sell so it really doesnt matter

however buying is a pain

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 26, 2022, 03:06:44 PM

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/26/china-fed-senate-report-00047810


(https://i.imgur.com/WTSCh8r.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 26, 2022, 03:09:52 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 26, 2022, 03:02:47 PM

Im both a coin and stamp collector

your right this is one place inflation feels good

course Id never sell so it really doesnt matter

however buying is a pain

You also tend to collect bad ideas.  
But I agree with your point about never selling a collection - people who do it for the value are missing out on the fun.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2022, 03:11:20 PM

I had an old coin collection my dad and I put together decades back.  I sold off most of it before we moved, it was just too heavy to deal with.  I used the money to buy silver Eagles, much more compact.  Most of the collection was really with no value at all.  I had a lot of proof sets that I dumped all but one.  The 1964 proof set has a bit of value.

I use to find a lot of old coins when we'd visit my grandparents in the country and kept the 40% silver items.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 26, 2022, 03:25:12 PM

no one in my family was a coin "collector"

apparently back in the day it was customary to gift a newborn or a first birthday with a silver dollar

other coins may or may not be "valuable".

40% silver coins, wheat tail pennies, 2 dollar bills, susan B Anthony dollars, misc.

I just don't see a point in holding onto them when my daughters will just liquidate them when I'm gone.  It will be more of a burden for them.

I suppose I could use some of them as ball markers on the golf course

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 26, 2022, 03:30:58 PM

I used to collect girlfriends, but my wife put a stop to that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 26, 2022, 03:34:54 PM

having too many at one time can be dangerous to your health and mental well being

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 26, 2022, 03:46:40 PM

 Try to only date women with the same name.  Used to be easier.  2 Jennifers.  3 Marys.  Easier to avoid slipping up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 26, 2022, 03:48:02 PM

Jennifer? Mary?

Those don't exist anymore. 

Neither does Jim. Except me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 26, 2022, 03:52:24 PM

My mom collected a couple of different things - state spoons and purple glass containers.  The purple glass thing was random and they'd be displayed above the kitchen counters.  At least they were relatively uniform.  She'd visited almost all the states and had a nice-looking cherry wood outline of the US, with rows of holders.  At least it looked nice.

I collect souvenir baseballs.  I have so many, there's no easy way to display them.  Some are subtle, but most are colorful and vibrant.  Examples are a Dahli museum ball, a presidential ball, a pink breast cancer awareness ball, a green Cubs St. Patricks' Day ball, etc.  Many are simply year-by-year official spring training balls.  They're like 10 bucks and feel good to hold in your hand.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 26, 2022, 03:52:37 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 26, 2022, 03:48:02 PM

Jennifer? Mary?

Those don't exist anymore.

Neither does Jim. Except me.

Jimberly?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 26, 2022, 03:57:11 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 26, 2022, 03:48:02 PM

Jennifer? Mary?

Those don't exist anymore.

Neither does Jim. Except me.

My i s c & a aggie wife is named Mary.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 26, 2022, 03:57:48 PM

WHOREHOUSE SUES LOCAL CHURCH OVER LIGHTNING STRIKE!
 
What an interesting turn of events in Pahrump, Nevada...
 
Diamond D's brothel began construction on an expansion of their building to increase their ever-growing business.
 
In response, the local Baptist Church started a campaign to block the business from expanding -- with morning, afternoon, and evening prayer
sessions at their church.
 
Work on Diamond D's progressed right up until the week before the grand re-opening when lightning struck the whorehouse and burned it to the ground!
 
After the brothel burned to the ground by the lightning strike, the church folks were rather smug in their outlook, bragging about "the power of prayer."
 
But late last week 'Big Jugs' Jill Diamond, the owner/madam, sued the church, the preacher and the entire congregation on the grounds that the church ... "was ultimately responsible for the demise of her building and her business -- either through direct or indirect divine actions or means."
 
In its reply to the court, the church vehemently and vociferously denied any and all responsibility or any connection to the building's demise.
 
The crusty old judge read through the plaintiff's complaint and the defendant's reply, and at the opening hearing he commented, "I don't know how the hell I'm going to decide this case, but it appears from the paperwork, that we now have a whorehouse owner who staunchly believes in the power of prayer, and an entire church congregation that thinks it's all bullshit.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 26, 2022, 04:04:08 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 26, 2022, 03:09:52 PM

You also tend to collect bad ideas. 
But I agree with your point about never selling a collection - people who do it for the value are missing out on the fun. 

considering your view of whats a bad idea is one you dont agree with Im guilty

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 26, 2022, 04:10:45 PM

I enjoy bidding on coins in various auctions.  I never buy a coin that hasnt been graded by a 3rd party service and is in a sealed plastic case.  This cuts down on being taken by a lot of very skilled crooks out there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 26, 2022, 04:24:21 PM

I'm guessing I'll be taken by a crook

perhaps I'll just use eBay

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 26, 2022, 04:36:23 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 26, 2022, 04:17:13 PM

wait, can't do it.  Where would all the folks leaving Cali go?

10 Biggest Adjustments Fleeing Californians Have To Make In Their New States | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/10-biggest-adjustments-fleeing-californians-have-to-make-in-their-new-states?utm_source=The+Babylon+Bee+Newsletter&utm_campaign=24f18a6f8d-Sponsored_Newsletter_7%2F22%2F22&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_62f636e998-24f18a6f8d-40382375&mc_cid=24f18a6f8d&mc_eid=fc2ec63199)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 26, 2022, 04:42:42 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 26, 2022, 04:36:23 PM

10 Biggest Adjustments Fleeing Californians Have To Make In Their New States | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/10-biggest-adjustments-fleeing-californians-have-to-make-in-their-new-states?utm_source=The+Babylon+Bee+Newsletter&utm_campaign=24f18a6f8d-Sponsored_Newsletter_7%2F22%2F22&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_62f636e998-24f18a6f8d-40382375&mc_cid=24f18a6f8d&mc_eid=fc2ec63199)

thats pretty good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 26, 2022, 05:29:19 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 26, 2022, 03:57:11 PM

My i s c & a aggie wife is named Mary.

Yeah but you're old.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 26, 2022, 05:48:49 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 26, 2022, 05:29:19 PM

Yeah but you're old.

Not as old as you, ya filthy geezer.

Now get off my lawn.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 26, 2022, 06:48:30 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 26, 2022, 04:36:23 PM

10 Biggest Adjustments Fleeing Californians Have To Make In Their New States | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/10-biggest-adjustments-fleeing-californians-have-to-make-in-their-new-states?utm_source=The+Babylon+Bee+Newsletter&utm_campaign=24f18a6f8d-Sponsored_Newsletter_7%2F22%2F22&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_62f636e998-24f18a6f8d-40382375&mc_cid=24f18a6f8d&mc_eid=fc2ec63199)

More mellow than I expected. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 26, 2022, 07:13:37 PM

I wish the politicians and the whole bunch would have left Roe v Wade alone. I realize many people felt the SC overreached in the decision but Jesus it’s nonstop ever since about how the SC took peoples rights away. 

IMO Congress cowered behind RvW for 50 years. They had plenty of time to pass some sort of law and many congressional majorities during that time. 

I have no idea if they had the votes at any time but afaik they never even got it to the floor. 

The SC simply kicked it to the states to decide, they didn’t take away anybodies rights. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 26, 2022, 07:56:02 PM

Quote from: Gigem on July 26, 2022, 07:13:37 PM

I wish the politicians and the whole bunch would have left Roe v Wade alone. I realize many people felt the SC overreached in the decision but Jesus it’s nonstop ever since about how the SC took peoples rights away.

IMO Congress cowered behind RvW for 50 years. They had plenty of time to pass some sort of law and many congressional majorities during that time.

I have no idea if they had the votes at any time but afaik they never even got it to the floor.

The SC simply kicked it to the states to decide, they didn’t take away anybodies rights.

You started out weak but finished strong

The thing is there is no right to have an abortion in the Constitution and thus it is by design a state matter

No matter how loud or long the media yells about this the fact remains that the people have just as much right to be for abortion as they do to be against abortion

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 26, 2022, 08:28:26 PM

Quote from: Gigem on July 26, 2022, 07:13:37 PM

I wish the politicians and the whole bunch would have left Roe v Wade alone. I realize many people felt the SC overreached in the decision but Jesus it’s nonstop ever since about how the SC took peoples rights away.

IMO Congress cowered behind RvW for 50 years. They had plenty of time to pass some sort of law and many congressional majorities during that time.

I have no idea if they had the votes at any time but afaik they never even got it to the floor.

The SC simply kicked it to the states to decide, they didn’t take away anybodies rights.

I saw this floating around a bunch, and it left me with the question: How often is congress rolling through and codifying things that the Supreme Court decided? Is this a common thing? I feel like we would've heard about it.

It seems like a strangely symbolic way to use political capital on the national level. And it doesn't seem like it would be all that effective. If they'd done it, one of the other majorities could've just undone it. 

The phrasing "they didn’t take away anybodies rights" is interesting too. Because it reads well at the start, but then gets weird if you deconstruct it. Like, if we all got together and voted to repeal the first amendment, that wouldn't directly rob us of a right, the new laws and actions in the court system would. In this case, it opens things up to rearrange rights. In essence it rolls back protections on certain "rights." And that colloquially is described as taking rights, though perhaps inaccurately. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 26, 2022, 08:29:53 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 26, 2022, 07:56:02 PM

No matter how loud or long the media yells about this the fact remains that the people have just as much right to be for abortion as they do to be against abortion

I ... don't think that's ever been in dispute. 

The top amendment literally protects the right to be for or against just about anything.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 26, 2022, 08:57:42 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 26, 2022, 08:29:53 PM

I ... don't think that's ever been in dispute.

The top amendment literally protects the right to be for or against just about anything.

which is why its never considered by SCOTUS

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 26, 2022, 09:00:01 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 26, 2022, 08:28:26 PM

I saw this floating around a bunch, and it left me with the question: How often is congress rolling through and codifying things that the Supreme Court decided? Is this a common thing? I feel like we would've heard about it.

It seems like a strangely symbolic way to use political capital on the national level. And it doesn't seem like it would be all that effective. If they'd done it, one of the other majorities could've just undone it.

The phrasing "they didn’t take away anybodies rights" is interesting too. Because it reads well at the start, but then gets weird if you deconstruct it. Like, if we all got together and voted to repeal the first amendment, that wouldn't directly rob us of a right, the new laws and actions in the court system would. In this case, it opens things up to rearrange rights. In essence it rolls back protections on certain "rights." And that colloquially is described as taking rights, though perhaps inaccurately.

I think what the poster meant was that anyone who wants an abortion can get one granted there might be some travel but hey when you kill a person you should have to go to some effort

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 26, 2022, 09:05:08 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 26, 2022, 08:28:26 PM

I saw this floating around a bunch, and it left me with the question: How often is congress rolling through and codifying things that the Supreme Court decided? Is this a common thing? I feel like we would've heard about it.

It seems like a strangely symbolic way to use political capital on the national level. And it doesn't seem like it would be all that effective. If they'd done it, one of the other majorities could've just undone it.

The phrasing "they didn’t take away anybodies rights" is interesting too. Because it reads well at the start, but then gets weird if you deconstruct it. Like, if we all got together and voted to repeal the first amendment, that wouldn't directly rob us of a right, the new laws and actions in the court system would. In this case, it opens things up to rearrange rights. In essence it rolls back protections on certain "rights." And that colloquially is described as taking rights, though perhaps inaccurately.

I guess I don’t know. What I do know is that RvW has been considered a stretch for a long time by many. Not saying I agree with them, but as others have stated there is no expressed right in the constitution the way there is for arms, freedom of speech, etc. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 26, 2022, 09:09:59 PM

And at least half the voting population is women. Maybe more. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 26, 2022, 09:14:19 PM

Quote from: Gigem on July 26, 2022, 09:05:08 PM

I guess I don’t know. What I do know is that RvW has been considered a stretch for a long time by many. Not saying I agree with them, but as others have stated there is no expressed right in the constitution the way there is for arms, freedom of speech, etc.

That's true. And even for things like arms and speech, or due process or a litany of other things, there are so many angles and extensions of rights and gray areas, things are often fuzzy. 

It is true that that particular thing is not in there. It's also unfortunate that the culture political structure went such a way that a majority-supported compromise is likely impossible, and that so much chicanery and grandstanding surrounds it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 26, 2022, 09:32:24 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 26, 2022, 09:14:19 PM

That's true. And even for things like arms and speech, or due process or a litany of other things, there are so many angles and extensions of rights and gray areas, things are often fuzzy.

It is true that that particular thing is not in there. It's also unfortunate that the culture political structure went such a way that a majority-supported compromise is likely impossible, and that so much chicanery and grandstanding surrounds it.

but we will have a majority supported compromise

people vote and decide what they want

if the majority is against then its voted down and if the majority vote prochoice then it passes

either way the majority decides and that is the compromise

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 26, 2022, 09:33:31 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 26, 2022, 05:48:49 PM

Not as old as you, ya filthy geezer.

Now get off my lawn.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=get+off+my+lawn&t=iphone&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DPvkk_Tce0Kc

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 26, 2022, 09:36:31 PM

Yeah, no matter what you or I think about each issue or the political process it’s worked for us to a degree for over 200 years. Just because one person doesn’t like the outcome doesn’t mean that it didn’t work the way it’s intended. 

Lots and lots of women are pro-life. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 26, 2022, 09:43:14 PM

If the prochoicers had not taken it too far there might not have been an overturning of the law

It wasnt good enough to abort in the first trimester nope then they wanted to be able to abort right up to birth and in some cases after birth

thats fine folks now everyone gets a say and the majority will decide

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 26, 2022, 10:26:15 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 26, 2022, 09:43:14 PM

If the prochoicers had not taken it too far there might not have been an overturning of the law

It wasnt good enough to abort in the first trimester nope then they wanted to be able to abort right up to birth and in some cases after birth

thats fine folks now everyone gets a say and the majority will decide

You're blinded by party affiliation.  1.2% of abortions are after 21 weeks, and most of those (ie over 50%) are simply due to not having the money to pay for it right away. 
Your party has drummed up a boogey man week after week, month after month, and year after year, and you fall for it EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME.
When do you plan on growing up?  Stop falling for it.  Stop being pandered to.  Turn your brain on.  I mean jesus christ, man.  It's embarrassing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 26, 2022, 10:54:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 26, 2022, 10:26:15 PM

You're blinded by party affiliation.  1.2% of abortions are after 21 weeks, and most of those (ie over 50%) are simply due to not having the money to pay for it right away. 
Your party has drummed up a boogey man week after week, month after month, and year after year, and you fall for it EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME.
When do you plan on growing up?  Stop falling for it.  Stop being pandered to.  Turn your brain on.  I mean jesus christ, man.  It's embarrassing.

you are such an ass

there are several states allowing late term abortions where have you been

and by the way its Jesus Christ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 26, 2022, 10:59:55 PM

OAM

Here is a article on what some states have proposed and passed concerning late term abortions

if you can get your head out of your butt and read it you might learn something

https://lozierinstitute.org/six-states-and-their-radical-approaches-to-abortion-law/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 27, 2022, 12:54:15 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 26, 2022, 09:32:24 PM

but we will have a majority supported compromise

people vote and decide what they want

if the majority is against then its voted down and if the majority vote prochoice then it passes

either way the majority decides and that is the compromise

That seems a bit of an oversimplification. 

The lines are drawn strongly, the feelings high. Parties have shows to put on, bases to satiate. People align in different ways, horse trade.

As you said, a healthy majority of people are fine with first trimester, almost all not at all fine with third. Mostly haggling about the second. But we'll end up with an odd patchwork, some places where government delivers overreach for show. Others where it goes too far the other way for show. 

(And of course, minority rights matter in a lot of cases, so "the majority decides and that is the compromise" feels a bit off)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 27, 2022, 12:55:05 AM

Quote from: Gigem on July 26, 2022, 09:36:31 PM

Yeah, no matter what you or I think about each issue or the political process it’s worked for us to a degree for over 200 years. Just because one person doesn’t like the outcome doesn’t mean that it didn’t work the way it’s intended.

Don't tell a lot of persons on both sides that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 27, 2022, 12:57:20 AM

An easy fix for abortion specifically is county-by-county. 

People will complain when they have to drive/fly 700+ miles to exercise their bodily autonomy (especially when they can't afford the time off work or the trip itself).  But if they only have to drive 50 miles, it's not a big, horrific problem. 

But there's no chance of that, because a prudent compromise isn't allowed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 27, 2022, 06:56:04 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 26, 2022, 08:28:26 PM

I saw this floating around a bunch, and it left me with the question: How often is congress rolling through and codifying things that the Supreme Court decided? Is this a common thing? I feel like we would've heard about it.

It seems like a strangely symbolic way to use political capital on the national level. And it doesn't seem like it would be all that effective. If they'd done it, one of the other majorities could've just undone it.

The phrasing "they didn’t take away anybodies rights" is interesting too. Because it reads well at the start, but then gets weird if you deconstruct it. Like, if we all got together and voted to repeal the first amendment, that wouldn't directly rob us of a right, the new laws and actions in the court system would. In this case, it opens things up to rearrange rights. In essence it rolls back protections on certain "rights." And that colloquially is described as taking rights, though perhaps inaccurately.

Here is the fundamental problem. Abortion cannot be a right as acknowledged by the founders. Rights are something that you posses by simply being a human. You posses the right to speak, to practice your religion, to defend yourself. Nobody has to provide you anything to exercise that right. 

By definition, Abortion cannot be a right as it requires that someone provide you with a service. You have the right to pursue an abortion, but the people of each state have a right to decide if the practice is legal in their state. If you don't like it, you are free to move to a state that allows it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 27, 2022, 07:49:45 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 27, 2022, 06:56:04 AM

Here is the fundamental problem. Abortion cannot be a right as acknowledged by the founders. Rights are something that you posses by simply being a human. You posses the right to speak, to practice your religion, to defend yourself. Nobody has to provide you anything to exercise that right.

By definition, Abortion cannot be a right as it requires that someone provide you with a service. You have the right to pursue an abortion, but the people of each state have a right to decide if the practice is legal in their state. If you don't like it, you are free to move to a state that allows it.

Although I agree that the constitution does not provide you with a right to abortion access, some of the logic seems a tad stretched. 

If a right can't be a right acknowledged by the founders if it's not explicitly stated in the original constitution, then it would seem we have very few rights, and the government has vast purview into our lives. This seems a negative end result. It also means a fetus simply can't have rights either, as the founders did not see fit to explicitly define them as human beings. 

The second part it also interesting because it sort of takes three tracks on rights, that someone be forced to provide something and that the government can't tell you not to do it. I think the first part is on shakier ground. I have the right to bear arms, but no one has to give me arms. The third seems sort of odd as well. "The people of each state have a right to decide if the practice is legal in their state." That's not really a right, as much as calling having a government a right. 

Anywho, it'll descend into some weird stuff, as we're not a people that can stop at being reasonable. Rarely have been, certianly not now. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2022, 07:57:35 AM

Images: $1.5B Arthur M. Blank Hospital has risen up over Atlanta | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/childrens-healthcare-photos-development-arthur-m-blank-hospital-project)

His foundation donated $200 million to this new hospital, which is fine with me, though he is deriving a benefit from this.  I'm curious whether that benefit is within IRS guidelines.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2022, 08:21:41 AM

In my OPINION, this thread is interesting when folks share information/facts that others may have missed.  When it comes down to opinions alone on hot button issues, we each have our own, and won't change them because someone else voices a differing opinion, any more than we'd switch teams to support because someone else likes the Jayhawks.

But we can learn things about issues if folks focus more on facts and less on opinions.  At least, that is my opinion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 27, 2022, 08:37:59 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 26, 2022, 10:59:55 PM

OAM

Here is a article on what some states have proposed and passed concerning late term abortions

if you can get your head out of your butt and read it you might learn something

https://lozierinstitute.org/six-states-and-their-radical-approaches-to-abortion-law/

That article was both interesting and odd. It's definitely trying to sell the fear factor, instead of drilling in on things that connect to actual "late term" abortions or the legal scope.

It seems to get hung up on ... I guess I'd call the political pet topics. If they stripped out lamenting 1. Taking old and at that point unused laws off the books (since courts said they weren't enforceable anyway) 2. Allowing different medical professionals to perform the thing 3. Rolling back the brand of arbitrary fake safeguards that have been used as a way to restrict working around the law, it could probably get at the point better. 

Though that might make it easier to have nuanced discussions which might not be the point. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 27, 2022, 09:17:27 AM

Just made my reservations for Spring Break 2023, we'll be taking the RV out to Big Bend National Park in West Texas, and staying there for a week. 

(https://i.imgur.com/DOTThLd.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/jiqWnwA.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/gdc8Jl5.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2022, 09:23:25 AM

I want to do the Big Circle Tour in Utah soonish.  We've done a part of it, but didn't stay long enough in some areas like Bryce Canyon.

Probably fly into LAS because it's usually cheaper, I'd check Salt Lake as well.  We happened upon Guardsmans Pass in October once, it was spectacular, and not even a park.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 27, 2022, 09:32:09 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 27, 2022, 12:55:05 AM

Don't tell a lot of persons on both sides that.

"Differences are not intended to separate, to alienate. We are different precisely in order to realize our need of one another." - Desmond Tutu

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 27, 2022, 09:33:24 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 26, 2022, 08:28:26 PM

I saw this floating around a bunch, and it left me with the question: How often is congress rolling through and codifying things that the Supreme Court decided? Is this a common thing? I feel like we would've heard about it.

"Gun control" has to ring a bell, no?

Anyway, the Dems have had numerous opportunities to Codify RvW and they did not. Shit, they could have done it when they rammed the unaffordable care act through. But they didn't. They could do it NOW, as they have control of the government, but they won't.

Do you know why?

I do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2022, 09:48:23 AM

The filibuster often is a good reason stuff doesn't pass the Senate.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 27, 2022, 09:49:45 AM

often, but not very often

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2022, 10:04:18 AM

The threat of a filibuster is rather often an impediment, which is why rather little passes the Senate.  The House is about to pass an "assault weapons ban" of sorts that has zero chance in the Senate.  The same is true for a lot of other bills the House passes.

Reconciliation can be used for some types of spending bills, the rules there are rather obscure.  I'm not a parlementarian.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 27, 2022, 10:08:50 AM

and why would the house spend the time to pass something they know full well has zero chance in the Senate?

for the illusion or delusion that they are working for their constituents ??

messaging???

so they can point their fingers at the Senate and say how terrible they are - throwing mud?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 27, 2022, 10:12:18 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 27, 2022, 10:04:18 AM

The threat of a filibuster is rather often an impediment, which is why rather little passes the Senate.  The House is about to pass an "assault weapons ban" of sorts that has zero chance in the Senate.  The same is true for a lot of other bills the House passes.

Reconciliation can be used for some types of spending bills, the rules there are rather obscure.  I'm not a parlementarian.

Senate rules can be changed. Ask Harry Reid how he got the UACA passed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2022, 10:13:12 AM

Of course, political optics and pandering for votes.  It is pretty "funny" how many bills passed the House in this session and stood zero chance in the Senate.

A few stood a small chance, some of course got upended by Manchin.

There was a pseudo-gun control bill that did get passed because both Houses worked together on it, which resulted of course in more of a rather pointless piece of legislation, in my view.  They usually manage a budget bill often delayed with CRs.

I thought the Dems would at least undo some parts of the "Trump tax cuts", but they haven't even managed that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2022, 10:14:02 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 27, 2022, 10:12:18 AM

Senate rules can be changed. Ask Harry Reid how he got the UACA passed.

Sure, they can, but there are impediments to that as well.  They have gradually increased the things than don't require cloture.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 27, 2022, 10:28:51 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 27, 2022, 08:21:41 AM

In my OPINION, this thread is interesting when folks share information/facts that others may have missed.  When it comes down to opinions alone on hot button issues, we each have our own, and won't change them because someone else voices a differing opinion, any more than we'd switch teams to support because someone else likes the Jayhawks.

But we can learn things about issues if folks focus more on facts and less on opinions.  At least, that is my opinion.

While I appreciate that you have an opinion on not posting opinions on this thread its my opinion that I'll post my opinion on something anytime I desire

If you dont agree with my opinion then please feel free to tell me why your opinion is different

course thats just my opinion

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 27, 2022, 10:33:01 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 27, 2022, 09:33:24 AM

"Gun control" has to ring a bell, no?

You’re saying that congress has gone in after the fact and passed laws that mirror the court’s ruling on gun control? Because that’s the thing we’re talking about. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 27, 2022, 10:42:42 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 27, 2022, 10:12:18 AM

Senate rules can be changed. Ask Harry Reid how he got the UACA passed.

(Is this conflating the filibuster thing with cabinet nominations in 2013 and the ACA thing in late 2009? The ACA got the 60 votes)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 27, 2022, 10:57:01 AM

The only real question I have right now is just how the dems are going to go about charging Trump with inciting the Jan 6th protests

Its the whole purpose for the hearing and the only chance the dems have left

The big problem the dems have is trying to survive the backlash from the voters when they do this

Stay tuned

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 27, 2022, 11:04:35 AM

Can you explain a little more?  Are they going to charge him with something akin to being impeached?  Like congress has these special powers like censure and other things that are relatively unknown and seldom used (maybe never?).  

Or are you referring to actual federal charges, prosecuted by a court? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 27, 2022, 11:09:39 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 27, 2022, 10:42:42 AM

(Is this conflating the filibuster thing with cabinet nominations in 2013 and the ACA thing in late 2009? The ACA got the 60 votes)

Streams crossed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on July 27, 2022, 11:11:13 AM

Congress has no law enforcement authority or jurisdiction.  All Congress can do is make referrals to the DoJ.  I would be surprised if there is any kind of action taken by DoJ against President Trump.  To date I haven't heard anything except speculation, hearsay, and innuendo from the Jan. 6th committee.  If they had actually found any real evidence that he broke a law I think we would have all heard about it by now.  But that's not the point of the Jan. 6th hearings.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 27, 2022, 11:30:19 AM

the point is to make sure he can't run for office again

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 27, 2022, 11:33:20 AM

Maybe game-show hosts shouldn't be president.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2022, 11:36:35 AM

I'm not very impressed with any of our recent Presidents.   I might prefer some game shows hosts over the bunch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 27, 2022, 11:37:34 AM

Why not?

The office of president should be open to any and every citizen of the USA, regardless of occupation (as long as they're born in the USA and 35 or older, per the Constitution, of course).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 27, 2022, 11:49:22 AM

Quote from: Gigem on July 27, 2022, 11:04:35 AM

Can you explain a little more?  Are they going to charge him with something akin to being impeached?  Like congress has these special powers like censure and other things that are relatively unknown and seldom used (maybe never?). 

Or are you referring to actual federal charges, prosecuted by a court?

they will need to get him into court

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 27, 2022, 11:50:53 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 27, 2022, 11:33:20 AM

Maybe game-show hosts shouldn't be president.

or maybe we let the people decide

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 27, 2022, 11:51:51 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 27, 2022, 11:33:20 AM

Maybe game-show hosts shouldn't be president.

If potted plants can be president so can orange men

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 27, 2022, 11:53:11 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on July 27, 2022, 11:11:13 AM

Congress has no law enforcement authority or jurisdiction.  All Congress can do is make referrals to the DoJ.  I would be surprised if there is any kind of action taken by DoJ against President Trump.  To date I haven't heard anything except speculation, hearsay, and innuendo from the Jan. 6th committee.  If they had actually found any real evidence that he broke a law I think we would have all heard about it by now.  But that's not the point of the Jan. 6th hearings.

wait and see what happens

crazy Nancy doesnt do anything without a plan

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2022, 11:54:26 AM

The Hunt for Red October (1990) - "Russians don't take a dump, son..." - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIjnTKr8FS0)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on July 27, 2022, 11:54:47 AM

Quote from: utee94 on July 27, 2022, 11:37:34 AM

Why not?

The office of president should be open to any and every citizen of the USA, regardless of occupation (as long as they're born in the USA and 35 or older, per the Constitution, of course).

I think we should carve out an exemption for the born in the USA thing and term limits and just make Elon Musk President for life.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 27, 2022, 11:55:38 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on July 27, 2022, 11:54:47 AM

I think we should carve out an exemption for the born in the USA thing and term limits and just make Elon Musk President for life.

This suggestion is equal parts intriguing, and terrifying. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on July 27, 2022, 11:57:44 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 27, 2022, 11:33:20 AM

Maybe game-show hosts shouldn't be president.

Whatevs. I'd take Trump over any President we've had since Bush I. Clinton admin set the stage for NATO expansion (hello Ukraine war!), deregulation of finance/housing crash, W was a literal disaster, Obama was a wolf in sheep clothing who was a puppet of Wall Street and the security state, and Biden is on track to be maybe the worst President in modern history- he's on track to be right up there with Jimmy Carter and W.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on July 27, 2022, 11:59:45 AM

Quote from: utee94 on July 27, 2022, 09:17:27 AM

Just made my reservations for Spring Break 2023, we'll be taking the RV out to Big Bend National Park in West Texas, and staying there for a week.

(https://i.imgur.com/DOTThLd.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/jiqWnwA.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/gdc8Jl5.jpg)

god damn that is beautiful

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 27, 2022, 12:04:23 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on July 27, 2022, 11:59:45 AM

god damn that is beautiful

There are maybe 2-3 parts of Texas that aren't a shithole. ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2022, 12:08:43 PM

"If I owned Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 27, 2022, 12:15:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 27, 2022, 12:08:43 PM

"If I owned Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas."

Yup.  It's awful.  Don't move here.

Thank You For Your Support.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 27, 2022, 12:25:38 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 27, 2022, 11:33:20 AM

Maybe game-show hosts shouldn't be president.

they wouldn't be if they weren't the lesser of two evils

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 27, 2022, 12:30:39 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 27, 2022, 12:25:38 PM

they wouldn't be if they weren't the lesser of two evils

blame the dems for that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 27, 2022, 12:31:40 PM

and mostly the Clinton's

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 27, 2022, 12:37:12 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 27, 2022, 11:51:51 AM

If potted plants can be president so can orange men

So can orange afro men.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 27, 2022, 12:57:51 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 27, 2022, 07:49:45 AM

Although I agree that the constitution does not provide you with a right to abortion access, some of the logic seems a tad stretched.

If a right can't be a right acknowledged by the founders if it's not explicitly stated in the original constitution, then it would seem we have very few rights, and the government has vast purview into our lives. This seems a negative end result. It also means a fetus simply can't have rights either, as the founders did not see fit to explicitly define them as human beings.

The second part it also interesting because it sort of takes three tracks on rights, that someone be forced to provide something and that the government can't tell you not to do it. I think the first part is on shakier ground. I have the right to bear arms, but no one has to give me arms. The third seems sort of odd as well. "The people of each state have a right to decide if the practice is legal in their state." That's not really a right, as much as calling having a government a right.

Anywho, it'll descend into some weird stuff, as we're not a people that can stop at being reasonable. Rarely have been, certianly not now.

I think you missunderstood what I was saying. The Constitution does not Grant rights, it simply recognizes that people are born with rights that the government may not intrude upon. The Constitution is not a restriction on peoples rights, it restricts what the government can do in relation to our rights. 

As I stated, the founders believed that rights are inherent to humans, they need not be provided anything to exercise those rights. The 2nd Amendment simply states that people have the right to keep and bear arms. It does not say that anyone needs to supply them with those arms, but if they have them, they may keep and bear them. 

As to abortion, a person is not born with abortion. They may have the right to go out and seek someone to provide that procedure, but there is not inherent right to one. And if the people in the state in which they reside, decide that life begins at conception and that killing that fetus is murder, then someone seeking an abortion will be complicit in the murder of an unborn baby.

If people read what the founders meant, ie the Federalist Papers, they would understand what the founders were saying thereby eliminating the shaky ground that you speak of. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 27, 2022, 01:03:06 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 27, 2022, 12:37:12 PM

So can orange afro men.

thanks a lot that thought will haunt me the rest of the day

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 27, 2022, 01:03:33 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 27, 2022, 11:54:26 AM

The Hunt for Red October (1990) - "Russians don't take a dump, son..." - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIjnTKr8FS0)

That is my favorite line from that movie. I use it often. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 27, 2022, 01:05:32 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 27, 2022, 12:57:51 PM

I think you missunderstood what I was saying. The Constitution does not Grant rights, it simply recognizes that people are born with rights that the government may not intrude upon. The Constitution is not a restriction on peoples rights, it restricts what the government can do in relation to our rights.

As I stated, the founders believed that rights are inherent to humans, they need not be provided anything to exercise those rights. The 2nd Amendment simply states that people have the right to keep and bear arms. It does not say that anyone needs to supply them with those arms, but if they have them, they may keep and bear them.

As to abortion, a person is not born with abortion. They may have the right to go out and seek someone to provide that procedure, but there is not inherent right to one. And if the people in the state in which they reside, decide that life begins at conception and that killing that fetus is murder, then someone seeking an abortion will be complicit in the murder of an unborn baby.

If people read what the founders meant, ie the Federalist Papers, they would understand what the founders were saying thereby eliminating the shaky ground that you speak of.

well said

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 27, 2022, 01:08:41 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 27, 2022, 12:15:58 PM

Yup.  It's awful.  Don't move here.

Thank You For Your Support.

Tell it to the Califorinicators headed your way

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 27, 2022, 01:21:35 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 27, 2022, 12:31:40 PM

and mostly the Clinton's

Hey the economy was great during his 2 terms,not sure how much he had to with it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 27, 2022, 01:25:13 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 27, 2022, 12:37:12 PM

So can orange afro men.

No thanks.
Anyone smart enough to be the president is smart enough not to want to be the president.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 27, 2022, 01:28:10 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 27, 2022, 01:25:13 PM

No thanks.
Anyone smart enough to be the president is smart enough not to want to be the president.

so when do you kick off your campaign 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 27, 2022, 01:29:38 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on July 27, 2022, 01:21:35 PM

Hey the economy was great during his 2 terms,not sure how much he had to with it

did you get tired of winning

I didnt

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on July 27, 2022, 02:48:20 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 27, 2022, 10:57:01 AM

The only real question I have right now is just how the dems are going to go about charging Trump with inciting the Jan 6th protests

Its the whole purpose for the hearing and the only chance the dems have left

The big problem the dems have is trying to survive the backlash from the voters when they do this

Stay tuned

Trumps' biggest legal exposure is in Georgia. He's going to be charged with and convicted of election fraud there long before the federales get their act together.

There may be backlash if there is no charge, but there's a Grand Canyon between "I don't like Biden" and "I'm voting for Trump". 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 27, 2022, 02:52:06 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 27, 2022, 10:57:01 AM

The only real question I have right now is just how the dems are going to go about charging Trump with inciting the Jan 6th protests

Its the whole purpose for the hearing and the only chance the dems have left

The big problem the dems have is trying to survive the backlash from the voters when they do this

Stay tuned

From what I read, if you were to get in trouble for something, it would probably be related to the fake electors thing.

But, we have a forgiving system for a lot of folks, so I’m guessing not much will come of it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 27, 2022, 03:04:08 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 27, 2022, 02:52:06 PM

From what I read, if you were to get in trouble for something, it would probably be related to the fake electors thing.

But, we have a forgiving system for a lot of folks, so I’m guessing not much will come of it.

there is nothing there

these electors were instructed that they would only act if the election results were overturned

otherwise they took no action

this is a bunch of wishing but no crime was committed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 27, 2022, 03:42:20 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 27, 2022, 03:04:08 PM

there is nothing there

these electors were instructed that they would only act if the election results were overturned

otherwise they took no action

this is a bunch of wishing but no crime was committed

I’d have to dig into it. There was something out there about trying to cast doubt, push them through, etc.

It was also an odd move considering they already had a slate of electors to send if the election was overturned, but the strategy there seems pretty seat of the pants.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 27, 2022, 03:46:05 PM

trying to cast doubt, push them through, etc.

key word, trying

can you be convicted of trying to commit a crime?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2022, 03:55:49 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 27, 2022, 03:46:05 PM

trying to cast doubt, push them through, etc.

key word, trying

can you be convicted of trying to commit a crime?

You can indeed, conspiracy and solicitation come to mind.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 27, 2022, 04:16:30 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 27, 2022, 03:46:05 PM

trying to cast doubt, push them through, etc.

key word, trying

can you be convicted of trying to commit a crime?

what they did was not a crime

it was only a contingency if the election was overturned

no action was taken to influence the court or to infringe the voters

unless something else comes to light this is just wishing from the left

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on July 27, 2022, 04:19:04 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 27, 2022, 03:46:05 PM

trying to cast doubt, push them through, etc.

key word, trying

can you be convicted of trying to commit a crime?

Attempted murder is a crime. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2022, 04:34:02 PM

Ships in line at Port of Savannah, Ga. back to record numbers, with cargo diverted from West Coast (ajc.com) (https://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-news/ships-line-up-at-port-of-savannah-with-cargo-diverted-from-west-coast/GQRB27ZHV5A6FKS7ENRPBTOONA/?fbclid=IwAR2Yj1mKuF300LlgOmEDWbvbOCixRBOMiJRoP_Tg93gWQq6fN7TLJFyeINM)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 27, 2022, 04:38:30 PM

the left coast is a mess

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on July 27, 2022, 04:47:14 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 27, 2022, 03:04:08 PM

there is nothing there

these electors were instructed that they would only act if the election results were overturned

otherwise they took no action

this is a bunch of wishing but no crime was committed

Do you have a link talking about how they would only act if the results were overturned?  Haven't seen that (did a quick search but couldn't find it, and not planning on getting a Truth Social account any time soon...)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on July 27, 2022, 05:29:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 27, 2022, 04:34:02 PM

Ships in line at Port of Savannah, Ga. back to record numbers, with cargo diverted from West Coast (ajc.com) (https://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-news/ships-line-up-at-port-of-savannah-with-cargo-diverted-from-west-coast/GQRB27ZHV5A6FKS7ENRPBTOONA/?fbclid=IwAR2Yj1mKuF300LlgOmEDWbvbOCixRBOMiJRoP_Tg93gWQq6fN7TLJFyeINM)

Yeah, we are looking at cars right now (son is getting his license next week....you've now been warned).  So we are shopping for cars.  Originally, we were thinking of giving him a piece of junk car, but even crap car prices are through the roof right now.  The plan has somewhat morphed into letting him use my wife's old car (which he learned to drive on) and then getting the wife a new (or recently used) electric car.

But there is almost nothing available right now on new car lots.  Alot of the websites show replacement (and cheaper) cars coming, but they are currently "In transit", aka, sitting on a container ship and haven't gotten through customs yet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 27, 2022, 05:31:59 PM

Or they were on this ship full of electric cars...

(https://i.imgur.com/ULEjZe7.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on July 27, 2022, 05:46:49 PM

Yeah, that is also part of the problem.  Wife wants an electric car, as said.  But:  A)  No new electric cars on lots (stuck on ships).  B)  Many cars from 2020 / 2021 / 2022 still have that faulty battery, which means that they are not allowed to be sold by used car lots until the battery problem is fixed, and the parts to fix those batteries are on those same ships stuck in the harbor.  C)  Anything older than that already has 50,000 miles on it, and is still bloody expensive, which is not exactly a great situation.

We might be back to plan "A" of finding the crappiest car we can get for the kid and then just wait out the supply chain issues for my wife's new car that she will get in a couple of years when her current car dies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 27, 2022, 05:49:03 PM

Quote from: grillrat on July 27, 2022, 05:46:49 PM

Yeah, that is also part of the problem.  Wife wants an electric car, as said.  But:  A)  No new electric cars on lots (stuck on ships).  B)  Many cars from 2020 / 2021 / 2022 still have that faulty battery, which means that they are not allowed to be sold by used car lots until the battery problem is fixed, and the parts to fix those batteries are on those same ships stuck in the harbor.  C)  Anything older than that already has 50,000 miles on it, and is still bloody expensive, which is not exactly a great situation.

We might be back to plan "A" of finding the crappiest car we can get for the kid and then just wait out the supply chain issues for my wife's new car that she will get in a couple of years when her current car dies.

Any grandparents that are looking to get out of a car (or stop driving altogether)?

My folks are both 80+ now, and in the next couple of years, we're probably going to have to take their keys away...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 27, 2022, 05:58:54 PM

kids first car usually gets in a fender bender or worse

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on July 27, 2022, 06:08:04 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 27, 2022, 05:58:54 PM

kids first car usually gets in a fender bender or worse

Yuuuup.  I'm just as guilty.
The wife wants an obnoxiously bright colored car for him so that it will be easier for people to notice him and decrease the odds of an accident by 1%.
The problem is that she also wants his car to have the newer safety features (brake assist, side / rear vehicle detection sensors, etc.), which are certainly becoming more common on new cars, but A) you might find a car with those safety features, but it will only be cheap because it has 120,000 miles on it already or B) you can get a cheap(er) car under 40,000 miles, but wont have the safety features .

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 27, 2022, 06:11:01 PM

Quote from: grillrat on July 27, 2022, 06:08:04 PM

The wife wants an obnoxiously bright colored car for him so that it will be easier for people to notice him and decrease the odds of an accident by 1%.

Oh well then do I have the perfect car for you!


(https://i.imgur.com/0PxBW9o.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 27, 2022, 06:46:37 PM

that truly hurts my eyes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 27, 2022, 06:51:47 PM

I'm not a Mopar man either

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 27, 2022, 07:05:48 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 27, 2022, 06:51:47 PM

I'm not a Mopar man either

Yeah I'm a Mustang guy myself...


(https://i.imgur.com/mQjQQhQ.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 27, 2022, 07:09:16 PM

Perhaps GM is your thang?

(https://i.imgur.com/7O6SG9a.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 27, 2022, 07:11:47 PM

Or maybe you're an import guy?

(https://i.imgur.com/BvM6QFL.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/n0aZNSc.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 27, 2022, 07:40:29 PM

All of the poor neighborhoods in Phx are full of those Challengers.  I don't understand why, but it's a fact.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on July 27, 2022, 08:52:55 PM

Unfortunately, yes, that is exactly the color of car she would prefer to get.

If you happen to have one of those at 40k miles or less and are selling for less than 20k, feel free to contact me....;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on July 27, 2022, 09:33:50 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 27, 2022, 07:40:29 PM

All of the poor neighborhoods in Phx are full of those Challengers.  I don't understand why, but it's a fact.

every poor neighborhood in every major city in the US is full of those Challengers and Chargers.

Little hint as to the why: drug dealers. They love those cars.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 27, 2022, 10:21:59 PM

this thread just gets funnier and funnier

you guys crack me up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 27, 2022, 10:22:27 PM

yes it was a pun

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 28, 2022, 03:36:37 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on July 27, 2022, 09:33:50 PM

every poor neighborhood in every major city in the US is full of those Challengers and Chargers.

Little hint as to the why: drug dealers. They love those cars.

That's what my dad said.  It just seems random for it to be that car.

If I had one, I'd paint it bright orange and put an 01 on the sides.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 28, 2022, 08:21:58 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 28, 2022, 03:36:37 AM

That's what my dad said.  It just seems random for it to be that car.

If I had one, I'd paint it bright orange and put an 01 on the sides.

And the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Viginia on the top? :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 28, 2022, 08:38:08 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on July 27, 2022, 09:33:50 PM

every poor neighborhood in every major city in the US is full of those Challengers and Chargers.

Little hint as to the why: drug dealers. They love those cars.

There are a ton around here on the roads (not parked as residents).  They often make a lot of noise.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 28, 2022, 08:56:42 AM

The x axis is not very clear, I presume something about GDP or something.

(https://i.imgur.com/oQSVwDL.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 28, 2022, 08:59:54 AM

Does she come with the car when you buy it?

(https://i.imgur.com/MGhBPTm.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 28, 2022, 09:14:22 AM

If that's the case I might be a Mopar Man for a month or two

then I'd trade them both

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 28, 2022, 09:15:41 AM

there are plenty of those Mopars around here, but not as many as further south

rear wheel drive isn't optimal for winter driving here and most of them can't afford two vehicles

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 28, 2022, 09:40:32 AM

I've owned MOPAR, Ford, Chevy, Honda, Toyota.

The best of the bunch was the Honda.  The worst-- by far-- was the Toyota.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 28, 2022, 09:41:02 AM

Quote from: utee94 on July 28, 2022, 08:59:54 AM

Does she come with the car when you buy it?

(https://i.imgur.com/MGhBPTm.jpg)

I have been a Mopar boy at times- have had 2 Hellcats.  But currently a Shelby GT 500 guy- maybe it the accessories….


(https://i.imgur.com/gZgNwJ9.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 28, 2022, 09:44:56 AM

good choice

I've only owned Chevys and one 78 Ford F-250 with a 400

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 28, 2022, 09:47:47 AM

We don't drive much, the GTI is 4 years old and has a bit over 26K on it.  I am surprised how decent it is for longer trips.  I thought I might have to rent something for that.

No problems as yet except for tires.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 28, 2022, 09:51:22 AM

you seem to be hard on tires

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 28, 2022, 09:51:57 AM

Quote from: utee94 on July 28, 2022, 08:59:54 AM

Does she come with the car when you buy it?
[img width=273.429 height=391]https://i.imgur.com/MGhBPTm.jpg[/img]

No, she is WAY more expensive than the car.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 28, 2022, 09:55:53 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 28, 2022, 09:51:22 AM

you seem to be hard on tires

Actual photo of CD driving:



(https://i.imgur.com/xHqalLS.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 28, 2022, 10:08:40 AM

damn run-flats with a short sidewall

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 28, 2022, 12:22:21 PM

When I was at COTA, I did burn a lot of Michelin.  They changed tires after one day's use on those cars.  They had a Michelin guy there who was quite interesting.

One exercise was on a wet skid pad where we tried to drift, that didn't burn much, but the short course did, a lot.  It was fun to hammer the brake and then the accelerator to the floor and then lift off the brake and listen to the car shudder and skip.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 28, 2022, 01:23:41 PM

Those summer performance tires are AMAZING for grip- especially on warm pavement.   Almost mind boggling.  

But the trade off is- treadwear life is VERY short with those softer compounds. 

My Gt 500 is wearing Michelin Pilot Sport 4S- max performance Summer, and my X3M Competition has Continental SportContact6.   Neither set will make it 10,000 miles 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 28, 2022, 01:25:45 PM

The interesting thing I learned from that Michelin dude was that they are great on wet pavement also.  Treadware is definitely shorter, by a lot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 28, 2022, 01:54:24 PM

Name that city?

(https://i.imgur.com/foyt3OR.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 28, 2022, 01:54:43 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 28, 2022, 01:25:45 PM

The interesting thing I learned from that Michelin dude was that they are great on wet pavement also.  Treadware is definitely shorter, by a lot.

Shockingly good on wet pavement. As long as temps are above 50ish.  In fact as long as the temperatures are up there, A good summer performance tire will handle heavy rain better than all season tires do

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 28, 2022, 01:56:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 28, 2022, 01:54:24 PM

Name that city?

(https://i.imgur.com/foyt3OR.png)

Atlanta?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 28, 2022, 03:36:19 PM

Tripling refining profits and strong gas trading has enabled Shell Plc (NYSE: SHEL) to report record profits in the second quarter this year, smashing its previous record three months back. The oil giant’s second-quarter adjusted earnings stood at $11.47 billion, above the $11 billion forecast by analysts in a poll provided by the company, Reuters reported.

______________________________________________


shocker!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on July 28, 2022, 04:06:52 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 28, 2022, 01:54:24 PM

Name that city?

(https://i.imgur.com/foyt3OR.png)

Thinking Memphis?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 28, 2022, 05:02:37 PM

It's Atlanta, the Chattahoochee River foreground.  I liked the photo, didn't take it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 29, 2022, 07:08:53 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/GWZyoPk.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on July 29, 2022, 07:58:50 AM

President Biden, builder of border walls.  That aught to twist some knickers on the left.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-admin-quietly-approves-construction-us-mexico-border-wall-near-yuma-arizona (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-admin-quietly-approves-construction-us-mexico-border-wall-near-yuma-arizona)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 29, 2022, 08:07:31 AM

I chuckled a little when I read that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 29, 2022, 10:01:00 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 29, 2022, 07:08:53 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/GWZyoPk.jpg)

Burnt Store???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 29, 2022, 10:06:12 AM

Marseille?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 29, 2022, 12:50:44 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/XHFYesg.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 29, 2022, 12:58:46 PM

2016 musta been a good year for the Big 12  ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 29, 2022, 04:53:34 PM

Monica Gandhi: Everything you need to know about monkeypox and how to stop it
Monkeypox is here, it is spreading and it isn’t going away on its own.
Monkeypox outbreak: California releases first report showing disproportionate impact on LGBTQ community 12:19 PM

How bad could monkeypox get in the Bay Area? Experts weigh trajectories
Anger in S.F.’s LGBTQ community over response to monkeypox outbreak
Monkeypox surging in the Bay Area: Here’s what you need to know

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 30, 2022, 12:07:18 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/HWRLn4S.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 30, 2022, 08:43:59 AM

1986 - forward pass is discovered as tactic to move the ball downfield ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 30, 2022, 08:58:18 AM

what the hell rules changed in 1962?

TDs became worth 6?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 30, 2022, 09:27:27 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 29, 2022, 10:01:00 AM

Burnt Store???

Naples, and not the one in Florida.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 30, 2022, 02:25:45 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 30, 2022, 08:58:18 AM

what the hell rules changed in 1962?

TDs became worth 6?

See above.

Everyone's RBs suddenly ran 4.5 instead of 4.8.  A mystery of how, I'm sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 30, 2022, 03:27:48 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 29, 2022, 04:53:34 PM

Monkeypox surging in the Bay Area: Here’s what you need to know

Ya GTFO of the Bay Area

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 30, 2022, 03:44:12 PM

so whats the over under on just when the dems will blame the monkey pox on Trump

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 30, 2022, 04:01:30 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 30, 2022, 03:44:12 PM

so whats the over under on just when the dems will blame the monkey pox on Trump

never...because he's an orangutan

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 30, 2022, 04:51:45 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 30, 2022, 03:44:12 PM

so whats the over under on just when the dems will blame the monkey pox on Trump

Sounds like you did it for 'em!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 30, 2022, 04:54:24 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 30, 2022, 04:51:45 PM

Sounds like you did it for 'em!

nope nice try

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 30, 2022, 10:56:22 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 30, 2022, 04:54:24 PM

nope nice try

Too late. They already have the headline: 

“Online Buzz: Trump catching blame from the right foe Monkeypox”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 30, 2022, 11:23:58 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 30, 2022, 10:56:22 PM

Too late. They already have the headline:

“Online Buzz: Trump catching blame from the right foe Monkeypox”

it would not surprise me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 31, 2022, 08:57:15 AM

Atlanta Falcons coach Arthur Smith shuts down practice after fights involving Jalen Dalton, Anthony Rush (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/Atlanta-Falcons-coach-Arthur-Smith-shuts-down-practice-after-fights-involving-Jalen-Dalton-Anthony-Rush-190753055/?fbclid=IwAR1L-6Y2ecSIiSyrZ9GQBkFilPGyviRh4UFUSyP1Ahe7Y0sxL5mg4rhF1DA)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 31, 2022, 09:31:23 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 29, 2022, 04:53:34 PM

Monica Gandhi: Everything you need to know about monkeypox and how to stop it
Monkeypox is here, it is spreading and it isn’t going away on its own.
Monkeypox outbreak: California releases first report showing disproportionate impact on LGBTQ community 12:19 PM

How bad could monkeypox get in the Bay Area? Experts weigh trajectories
Anger in S.F.’s LGBTQ community over response to monkeypox outbreak
Monkeypox surging in the Bay Area: Here’s what you need to know

The MSM's version of "Don't say gay." 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 01, 2022, 02:27:06 PM

Working Americans pay income taxes — why don’t billionaires? | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/3580013-working-americans-pay-income-taxes-why-dont-billionaires/)

Families can continue to avoid taxes forever by using this ‘buy, borrow, die’ strategy (https://www.wsj.com/articles/buy-borrow-die-how-rich-americans-live-off-their-paper-wealth-11625909583): holding onto their assets without selling, borrowing against them for income and using the loophole at inheritance that allows billionaires to pass on the increased value of their assets to heirs tax-free.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 01, 2022, 02:47:50 PM

are we back on the kick millionaires in the nuts subject

if we start taxing millionaires unfairly they will just pull their investments and move to a friendlier local

right now over 70% of taxes paid comes from high income folks

the amount of borrowing for millionaires is approx $68 billion which is not a lot when looking at the entire tax levied each year

this is a non issue but the dems keep bringing it up for political gain

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 01, 2022, 02:59:03 PM

Not millionaires, but billionaires, who really do dodge taxes the way I've explained several times here.

I don't think this is a way to get at them though, and it would be a pain to implement.  The tax people would be happy.

Europe tried this some years back, nearly every country reversed course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 01, 2022, 03:33:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 01, 2022, 02:59:03 PM

Not millionaires, but billionaires, who really do dodge taxes the way I've explained several times here.

I don't think this is a way to get at them though, and it would be a pain to implement.  The tax people would be happy.

Europe tried this some years back, nearly every country reversed course.

they reversed course cause a lot of the billionaires left

This is not a one way street billionaires create jobs and contribute to the economy in many other ways

are we trying to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 01, 2022, 03:39:00 PM

millionaires and billionaires are created by capitalism - so far a better system hasn't been proven

and no, our system isn't perfect, but I blame the politicians for that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 01, 2022, 03:50:00 PM

I prefer the terms "free markets" versus "central planning".  I prefer the former to the extent possible.

I don't think this effort to tax billionaires would either work or raise much revenue.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 01, 2022, 03:59:22 PM

just aren't enough billionaires
\
we need to create more

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 01, 2022, 04:13:26 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 01, 2022, 03:59:22 PM

just aren't enough billionaires
\
we need to create more

I volunteer.  Y'all give me a billion dollars and I promise to create wealth for our country with it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 01, 2022, 04:30:14 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 01, 2022, 03:39:00 PM

millionaires and billionaires are created by capitalism - so far a better system hasn't been proven

and no, our system isn't perfect, but I blame the politicians for that

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/296799524_10227453602501271_6860632017585649271_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=VuipHxVcadoAX8_mNyo&tn=_MnT8OkIfzNoswba&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_HVoaA8mqeNOvXYmqJUnD2_HYUjyAw-rKoVKKzovIbzA&oe=62EDACB6)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 01, 2022, 05:31:13 PM

Biden set to speak after U.S. hits ‘significant’ al-Qaida target in Afghanistan

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 01, 2022, 07:13:34 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 01, 2022, 04:13:26 PM

I volunteer.  Y'all give me a billion dollars and I promise to create wealth for our country with it.

You're already half way there you Robber Baron

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Hawkinole on August 02, 2022, 01:14:50 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 01, 2022, 05:31:13 PM

Biden set to speak after U.S. hits ‘significant’ al-Qaida target in Afghanistan

When Bin Laden was killed we set off fireworks. I wanted to set off fireworks tonight. I didn't have any. Ayman Al Zawahiri was equally as responsible for 9/11 as Bin Laden.
I have been waiting for this day for 21-years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 02, 2022, 09:12:39 AM

who's next on the hit list?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 02, 2022, 09:20:20 AM

CIA: The World Factbook

The World Factbook provides information on the history, people, government, economy, geography, communications, transportation, military, and transnational issues for 267 world entities. Our Reference tab includes: maps of the major world regions, as well as Flags of the World, a Physical Map of the World, a Political Map of the World, a World Oceans map, and a Standard Time Zones of the World map.

https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/about/archives/ (https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/about/archives/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2022, 10:31:25 AM

CBO Report: US GDP, US Inflation, and US Budget Deficit Takeaways (taxfoundation.org) (https://taxfoundation.org/cbo-report-us-gdp-budget-deficit/#:~:text=The cumulative 10-year deficit,of 2022 that increased spending.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 02, 2022, 10:41:40 AM

Bidens proposed Inflation Reduction bill not only has nothing to do with decreasing inflation but will increase income taxes of some taxpayers making as low as $10,000 
taxable income

In short it violates Bidens pledge not to increase taxes on anyone making less then $400 thousand a year

It also will use $89 billion to increase the number of IRS agents by 80,000

the mid terms cant get here fast enough

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2022, 08:27:15 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/W6rqN27.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2022, 08:27:55 AM

This doesn't cover need for down payment and decent credit of course ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2022, 08:54:31 AM

I'm guessing Sioux City, IA is less than Oklahoma City

and the town of 300 that I live in is WAY less than that

nothing cited from most rural states, but it's all about the big cities

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2022, 08:56:05 AM

On August 1, Special Operations Command (SOCOM) announced that the next plane in its inventory would be a single-engine prop aircraft. SOCOM will buy up to 75 AT-802U Sky Warden planes, built by L3Harris Technologies and Air Tractor. These planes will support special operations forces, like Delta Force or Navy SEALs, as they fight irregular wars.

The name of this program is “Armed Overwatch.” The contract announcement says it “will provide Special Operations Forces deployable, affordable, and sustainable crewed aircraft systems fulfilling close air support, precision strike, and armed intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance, requirements in austere and permissive environments for use in irregular warfare operations in support of the National Defense Strategy.”

Irregular warfare is a broad term that is easier to define by what it doesn’t include. Regular warfare is when the uniformed soldiers of one nation fight the uniformed soldiers of another. These conflicts usually involve the whole range of conventional military forces, from rifles through tanks and artillery to fighter jets and bombers. Irregular warfare, by contrast, involves fighting against insurgencies, rebellions, and tracking down people linked to terror operations. It can also involve helping other countries’ militaries do the same.



The program is called "Armed Overwatch." Here's what to know about the aircraft—and its roots as a crop duster.

(https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AA10f8Wz.img?w=534&h=300&m=6)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on August 03, 2022, 12:19:25 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 03, 2022, 08:54:31 AM

I'm guessing Sioux City, IA is less than Oklahoma City

and the town of 300 that I live in is WAY less than that

nothing cited from most rural states, but it's all about the big cities

It says the 50 largest metro areas.  Living large here in Pittsburgh

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2022, 01:13:05 PM

I'm quite content to be living small here in NW Iowa

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 03, 2022, 01:59:42 PM

That dirt ain't gonna farm itself!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 04, 2022, 08:30:02 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 03, 2022, 01:59:42 PM

That dirt ain't gonna farm itself!

Actually it will, we just don't care for the crop it would produce. ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2022, 09:07:05 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/FHbOALz.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2022, 11:09:19 AM

Skyline-altering Midtown tower proposal shows signs of life | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/midtown-tower-skyline-project-rockefeller-61-stories-shows-signs-life)

This will be fun to watch going up if it happens.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 04, 2022, 02:53:52 PM

skyline chili?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on August 04, 2022, 08:35:52 PM

Alex Jones will be fine.  I truly feel sorry for the idiots who line his pockets.  The sad thing is that he knows they are idiots, and doesn't 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 04, 2022, 08:52:29 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 04, 2022, 02:53:52 PM

skyline chili?

Now you've done it. 

Now Cincydawg is going to have to drive all the way up to Lexington KY in order to satisfy that particular craving. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on August 04, 2022, 09:32:45 PM

If I wanted Skyline I would just get hammered, and go to a Fazolis, and vomit on their Alfredo, and then eat it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 04, 2022, 09:41:16 PM

The trick with Skyline is to eat it there, otherwise you might as well just light your money on fire. They don't toast the bun, and the Styrofoam "to-go" container just traps in the steam. So by the time you crack it open, the bun has turned to slime and mixed with the "chili" and the melted cheese, so at that point it's just a crappy hot dog wrapped in a nasty, ungodly paste that no one in their right mind would ever even consider attempting to ingest. Why some have drive-thrus, I'll never understand. Who would fall for that more than once? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 04, 2022, 10:11:46 PM

I went to a bachelor party in Cincinnati, and food on the first night was catering-sized containers of Skyline and Skyline accoutrements.

I got out the door late, so I ate if cold. Really just don't recommend that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 04, 2022, 11:03:15 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 02, 2022, 10:41:40 AM

Bidens proposed Inflation Reduction bill not only has nothing to do with decreasing inflation but will increase income taxes of some taxpayers making as low as $10,000
taxable income

In short it violates Bidens pledge not to increase taxes on anyone making less then $400 thousand a year

It also will use $89 billion to increase the number of IRS agents by 80,000

the mid terms cant get here fast enough

pure f**king insanity. And I've read the number was more like 87,000 this f**king idiot wants to add. yeah, largest debtor nation on planet earth, so let's keep borrowing and spending across the board like there's no tommorow and keep BLOATING the federal gov't up so all the useless idiots in gov't can suck on the public teet- GREAT idea let's bloat the IRS up by another 87,000 people. MAKES SENSE. Average IRS employee salary is $76,233 per year. Times that by 87,000. That's an additional $6.63 billion a year to ONE single agency in a bloated bastardized piece of sh*t wasteful useless abomination of a federal gov't. This doesn't take into account the billions more in benefits. It's really just time to take a hatchet to the entire thing or better yet just dismantle the entire federal gov't and start all over.

The US federal Gov't LITERALLY sucks and it's both parties who seem happy to just keep letting it grow, get more wasteful, bloated, and bastardized. It's a damn shame.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 05, 2022, 06:30:54 AM

I fix my own version of Cincy chili sometimes, it's a lot better than anything up there in my opinion.  I rarely "crave" it at all, I usually don't think about it.

I do have some memories of Blue Ash Chili back in the day though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2022, 08:03:38 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 04, 2022, 11:03:15 PM

pure f**king insanity. 

Yep.

87K people added to the deep state.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 05, 2022, 09:01:01 AM

Have you ever noticed how the fashion of the last few decades just seems to be static?  We were watching some older 80's movies the other day and it struck me how all of the previous decades of the 20th century were so distinct but the fashions since Y2K are mostly static.  Could you really look at a picture from say 2005 and tell any major difference?  About the only tell-tale sign would be if they had a flip phone or a smartphone.  The cars look mostly the same too.  

70's were very distinct, 60's, so forth and so on.  Wonder why that is?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 05, 2022, 09:07:00 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/NOqkiZt.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/JleUc3h.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on August 05, 2022, 09:39:56 AM

Quote from: Gigem on August 05, 2022, 09:01:01 AM

Have you ever noticed how the fashion of the last few decades just seems to be static?  We were watching some older 80's movies the other day and it struck me how all of the previous decades of the 20th century were so distinct but the fashions since Y2K are mostly static.  Could you really look at a picture from say 2005 and tell any major difference?  About the only tell-tale sign would be if they had a flip phone or a smartphone.  The cars look mostly the same too. 

70's were very distinct, 60's, so forth and so on.  Wonder why that is? 

Was discussing something pretty similar to this with a neighbor the other day, because they went to a 90s party.  And aside from grunge, I wasn't sure how you would do that.  60s/70s/80s, you have an idea on how to dress, he said it was 90s music, but that was about it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 05, 2022, 09:56:05 AM

Quote from: Gigem on August 05, 2022, 09:01:01 AM

Have you ever noticed how the fashion of the last few decades just seems to be static?  We were watching some older 80's movies the other day and it struck me how all of the previous decades of the 20th century were so distinct but the fashions since Y2K are mostly static.  Could you really look at a picture from say 2005 and tell any major difference?  About the only tell-tale sign would be if they had a flip phone or a smartphone.  The cars look mostly the same too. 

70's were very distinct, 60's, so forth and so on.  Wonder why that is? 

There are a few fashion trends that will date this era-- for example, women wearing those hideous early 90s-style mom jeans again.  I hate those things, so unflattering on women of every shape and size.  They'll eventually go away, and then come back to haunt us once more in 2040.

But in general I agree.  And I've thought a lot about it.

Because the same thing goes for mainstream music.  Growing up in the 70s, you could absolutely tell the difference in the music from two decades earlier.  50s music sounded nothing like 70s music.  Same thing for the 80s, sounded nothing like the 60s.  And in the 90s, it sounded very little like the 70s.  But since 2000, music has been fairly static and homogenous, with few distinctive changes that would differentiate a song from 2002, from a song from 2022.

For music, I think one major driving force, is that there was a lot of technological change and advancement in instrumentation and recoding capabilities throughout the 1900s.  Advances in guitars, pedals, synthesizers, sound boards, recording technology, playback technology-- all created rapid change in the way we could produce, capture, and hear recorded sound from the 1920s, all the way into the 1990s.  And what went along with that, was musical experimentation and innovation and variation-- artists trying out new ideas with the new technology, and attempting to produce something original and unique.  But eventually, they'd tried everything.  Music couldn't really get any harder than the thrash metal and industrial electronic music of the 90s.  It couldn't really get any more vulgar than the heavy metal and rap of the 90s.  It couldn't really get any poppier than the boy bands and pop synth of the late 90s.  Eventually, I think artists had tried pretty much everything.  Modern trends of "Bro Country" with mixing more pop and heavier guitar into country music weren't new, the same thing had been done regularly in the 70s, 80s, 90s.  I guess one of the more defining characteristics of the 2000s+ mainstream pop music has been the introduction of what I like to call "The Unnecessary Rap" in the middle of an otherwise extremely poppy song, but even that's not new, Blondie was doing it in 1980.  So we've sort of reached this equilibrium, where pretty much all styles have been explored, all avenues tested, and although there is a massive diversity in music now compared to the 1950s, all of those various styles and sub-styles haven't changed or evolved much in 20 years.

In addition to that, I also think changes in distribution and consumption have resulted in this sort of "settling in." In days of yore, radio stations, and then MTV, were the primary drivers of what people listened to. It was all pretty homogenous but it was also a driving force-- if the radio stations decided to change the music they were delivering to you, then the very nature of what you were hearing, necessarily followed.  MTV did the same thing, it actually had a pretty narrow focus on its preferred musical styles, but any time it shifted, it drove a national or even global change in the sounds people were listening to.  So mainstream music had these major shifts, driven not necessarily by what the artists were doing, but by what the broadcasters were choosing to allow you to listen to.  In the 80s we all had those "bootleg" tapes from our favorite bands, and they were considered a wonder,  because it was a glimpse into some music that their record labels and radio stations weren't allowing us to have.

But digital delivery of media changed that.  Satellite radio changed that.  And most of all, the internet changed that.  Instead of being forced and driven by terrestrial radio trends, or MTV, now people could directly seek out their favorite niche artists and niche bands and niche styles.  There became less dominant sounds, and more variety, so there were no trends being forced onto the listening public.  At first it seems like this variety should have resulted in more dynamic music evolution, but in reality I think it sort of did the opposite.  More niche creation, delivery, and consumption, has resulted in less cross-pollination of musical styles.  People are able to settle into whatever they like and NOT have to listen to something diverse.  This isn't true across the board, some artists and some listeners crave uniqueness and seek it out.  But as the definition of what is "mainstream music" broadened, the actual focus of listeners has tended to shrink.  Because it can, because they're able to search out, find, and focus on very specific sounds, in a way that was never possible before.

And also, even those that desperately want to find or create new, unique styles, are running into my first point above.  There really isn't much NEW, to be done, given our current technology.

Those are just some of my thoughts.  I could be completely wrong.  I definitely feel like my first point is a stronger driver, than my second point, but I also believe they're linked.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 05, 2022, 10:07:47 AM

Part II: :)

For fashion, I think it's possible that something similar has happened.  In a similar way, it's getting pretty difficult to do anything new, because so much has already been done before.  We do see recycled trends, but after a couple of iterations, those lose their ties to the era in which they originated, and the new forms seem to be less distinct and more homogenized anyway, perhaps with the intent to have broader appeal.

And again, with the more bite-wise consumption of media, not everyone is seeing these major, driving, national and global trends in fashion.  Back when there were only 3 TV channels, if you saw your favorite TV star all of a sudden wearing bell bottoms and sideburns, you wanted to do the same thing.  Heck, the movie Urban Cowboy caused a GLOBAL phenomenon of everyone wearing blue jeans, western shirts, cowboy hats, and boots.  Even in New York.  Even in PARIS.

But now, we're able to pick and choose our media consumption, and entire generations are NOT growing up on the exact same characters wearing the exact same things.

So the result is that we all tend to pick and choose what we want to wear, with more variety, but without a driving inspiration to change what we're wearing, so the styles don't evolve. 

Many styles with less evolution now, versus the past with fewer styles but more frequent and more homogenous, widely sdopted, evolution.

Again, just my thoughts.  They could certainly be wrong.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 05, 2022, 10:32:23 AM

The sort of fashion you're not seeing now is worn by people you never interact with.  If you gathered a bunch of 20 year olds from 1995 and a bunch from today, you could tell them apart in half a second.

It's gradual change over time while your witnessing it.....like hair growth.  You think nothing of it until that one day you think, "wow, my hair has gotten long."  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 05, 2022, 10:45:49 AM

1995 to today, I'd definitely notice a change in what 20yos are wearing.  

2005 to today, I'm not so sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 05, 2022, 11:00:33 AM

If younger people aren't chasing trends as much, that's a good sign for our society.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 05, 2022, 11:18:55 AM

Well i can say that the tweens and teens are wearing a lot of crocs and I'm not so sure about that.

But they also still love their Vans, Chucks, and Nike high tops, which is exactly what I was wearing in the 80s.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 05, 2022, 09:18:34 PM

Yeah, just because most of you are still dressing like it's the 90s, that doesn't mean that everyone else is too. Lol. But once this 80s fad is over with the younglings, you'll be back in style again. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 05, 2022, 09:58:39 PM

I guess my bell bottom jeans and olive green leisure suit will someday be in fashion  again

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 05, 2022, 10:07:24 PM

Fearless and Cincydawg are still rolling around in the combo of super short shorts and knee high socks with the green stripes around the top. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 05, 2022, 10:36:13 PM

Those shorts are called "Stocktons." 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 05, 2022, 11:18:16 PM

Everyone would have had to have worn briefs back then. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 06, 2022, 07:26:37 AM

Shorts and t-shirts here. Same as it ever was.

Will we get to a point where there is no more men's, women's, boys or girls sections?

Serious question.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 06, 2022, 08:24:03 AM

The young ladies I see here when I'm running are often attired rather scantily.    I'm not sure it would have been accepted 20 years ago ...

Atlanta for some reason has a surfeit of high end strip clubs (as well as lower end).  Some I see could easily work at one.

When we first got here, I took my wife to Phipp's Plaza, a rather tony shopping mall in Buckhead across from Lenox.  We stopped at a place for a glass of wine.  The servers were all very attractive ladies wearing "dresses" that were as short as a dress could be, and some old me sitting near us were slipping them money, repeatedly.  It appeared to be a fair bit of money.  My wife was the only female customer and spotted this behavior and thought it, well, odd.

I don't know what that has to do with anything except this place can be odd at times.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 06, 2022, 08:34:50 AM

many words come to mind for that behavior, odd wouldn't top my list

oldest profession known to man

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 06, 2022, 08:45:32 AM

The fact it was happening at the most ritzy mall in the city struck me as unexpected.

Welcome To Phipps Plaza - A Shopping Center In Atlanta, GA - A Simon Property (https://www.simon.com/mall/phipps-plaza)

I checked their "dining" options and it doesn't seem to be there any more.  It was more of a bar than restaurant and had outside seating which we enjoy.

The Cheetah Club here is pretty well known.  One wouldn't know it was a strip place from the menu.

Menu - The Cheetah Lounge Atlanta (https://www.thecheetah.com/alluvia/menu/)

Southeast’s most renowned night club and home of the legendary CheetahGirls – the most beautiful women in the South, performing nude.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 06, 2022, 08:47:35 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 06, 2022, 07:26:37 AM

Shorts and t-shirts here. Same as it ever was.

Will we get to a point where there is no more men's, women's, boys or girls sections?

Serious question.

Maybe?  But pants kinda have to be cut differently for most men and most women.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 06, 2022, 08:47:46 AM

hah, I've been to the Cheetah

back in my youth

nice place

I didn't sample the food

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 06, 2022, 08:52:05 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 06, 2022, 08:47:35 AM

Maybe?  But pants kinda have to be cut differently for most men and most women.

Yup.  My daughter gave me some "running shorts and socks" for birthday a while back.  I didn't notice anything special about either, but the shorts are comfy and loose.

The socks are nicely padded I guess.  Both supposedly wick sweat which I know is an ad gimmick.

I get back here just drenched, everything is soaked.  Not many have been running of late for some reason.  There is an old guy named "Bob" I hadn't seen for months and I've seen him back of late, I was sort of worrying about him.  He runs very slow, slower than I do, but pretty long distances.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 06, 2022, 09:03:26 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 06, 2022, 08:47:35 AM

Maybe?  But pants kinda have to be cut differently for most men and most women.

Man jeans = mom jeans

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 06, 2022, 09:11:36 AM

Heh... not exactly

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 06, 2022, 09:12:46 AM

Elastic waste for everyone!!


:96:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 06, 2022, 09:26:41 AM

FORE!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 06, 2022, 09:58:47 AM

So we are back home in Florida. We left on June 30.

WAY too long to be away. Was ready to come back on July 5.

Not happening again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 06, 2022, 10:02:24 AM

My wife likes to travel a lot, which is OK usually, but she can overdo it, and we also enjoy just being here, less stress.  I need to visit my kids soonish.  My wife mentioned going to San Diego again for Thanksgiving and I had to nyet that idea.  We may do Vancouver then, I'm checking flights.  But we already have 3 trips scheduled before that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 06, 2022, 10:14:01 AM

After January 14, I plan to lay low on travel for a while.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 06, 2022, 10:20:18 AM

Maybe we'll drop by after baseball camp ...:86:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2022, 06:42:22 AM

Our area locally is making a concerted effort to build "parklets" where land exists, small less than half acre green or use spaces.  This seems to be working pretty well, it spots "green" in an urban environment for relatively little cost.  There are even notions of building over the main freeway, though the cost of that is exorbitant, and I don't think it can happen, but they did widen one bridge to build a green space which is better than just a bridge.

(https://i.imgur.com/fnMzlNQ.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 07, 2022, 08:16:34 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 06, 2022, 10:20:18 AM

Maybe we'll drop by after baseball camp ...:86:

When is that?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2022, 08:31:09 AM

Jan 17-22.  There is a second one Jan 10-15 I might do also, maybe.  My legs would be shot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 07, 2022, 08:56:30 AM

Look me up for sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 07, 2022, 09:28:06 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/296604697_588477045982250_1565039227294532365_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=dJtvvZ55T_QAX-10jDx&tn=_MnT8OkIfzNoswba&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_nOSxQMMFNQj3nclDewNBZ_aPBAWPYfTTTgzCoDK4ERQ&oe=62F48EEF)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2022, 12:19:10 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/3cFOWBb.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 08, 2022, 03:34:22 PM

Gotta be the owners kid or some one on work release

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 08, 2022, 03:57:23 PM

I'd fire him on the spot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 08, 2022, 08:42:25 PM

Finally saw Top Gun Maverick over the weekend. I enjoyed the movie a lot, even if they went just a tad hard on nostalgia and the plot was really goofy and non-sensical. 

It really seems like a lot of movies just have lazy and un-inventive writers. Maybe it’s always been that way. 

I can barely watch the new Star Wars movies for this reason. Just terrible writing, and plots so dumb it’s hard to follow. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 08, 2022, 09:31:12 PM

Quote from: Gigem on August 08, 2022, 08:42:25 PM

Finally saw Top Gun Maverick over the weekend. I enjoyed the movie a lot, even if they went just a tad hard on nostalgia and the plot was really goofy and non-sensical.

It really seems like a lot of movies just have lazy and un-inventive writers. Maybe it’s always been that way.

I can barely watch the new Star Wars movies for this reason. Just terrible writing, and plots so dumb it’s hard to follow.

I think a lot of movies have always been this way, we just kind of forget about a lot of the old ones.

HOWEVER, I also think blockbusters are becoming more monolithic, so when they're terribly written, it stands out more. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 08, 2022, 11:13:10 PM

why I don't watch movies, it's too painful

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 09, 2022, 02:24:25 AM

They mostly stick to what's worked in the past in a safe way to make money.
When they go off-script or try to get inventive, it's a good chance it doesn't work - on some scale of too convoluted vs stupid consumers unable to follow anything other than what's worked before.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 09, 2022, 07:06:53 AM

Big Ten close to a deal with CBS and NBC- leaving ESPN out?

https://mobile.twitter.com/Dubsco/status/1556829352255311875

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 09, 2022, 09:33:22 AM

I really wish the SEC had stayed with CBS.  I liked having the games on that channel versus the Disney empire.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: LittlePig on August 09, 2022, 10:05:18 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 09, 2022, 07:06:53 AM

Big Ten close to a deal with CBS and NBC- leaving ESPN out?

https://mobile.twitter.com/Dubsco/status/1556829352255311875

So speculation is this will lead to Big Ten tripleheaders

Big Fox - noon ET
CBS - 3:30 ET
NBC - 7:30 ET

NBC would probably re-sign Notre Dame and have Notre Dame games at 2:30 ET

I am guessing no ESPN/ABC means maybe 1 game on FS1 and the rest on BTN?

As a Big Ten fan and cord-cutter I like this plan.  More games on local channels.  Get a subscription to Fox/BTN during football season.  That's about all I need until bowl sesson.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 09, 2022, 10:28:39 AM

my thought exactly

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 09, 2022, 11:04:59 AM

My Hulu covers all of those bases so I don't care.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 09, 2022, 11:12:41 AM

Makes me wonder, what are they going to do for a big game in LA, like say Ohio State @ USC?  This is clearly the kind of game that Fox likes to put in their "Big Noon" slot, so would they force a 9 AM local kickoff?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 09, 2022, 11:18:32 AM

Highly doubtful that would be allowed. I'm certain Fox will be told "no" on any B1G Noon games for the Cali schools.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2022, 11:56:34 AM

I just signed up for two baseball fantasy camps.  Jan 10-15 and 17-22.  I am a crazy old guy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2022, 01:41:16 PM

Jackson County...
Road Closure SR 11
What: Northbound and Southbound lanes closed due to a poultry truck overturning. Chickens released from cages and workers attempting to catch fowls.
Where: State Route 11 Northbound and Southbound.
Detour to Academy Church Road
When: 11:21 a.m.
Use alternate route. Expect delays.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Abba on August 09, 2022, 01:46:57 PM

My concern with the TV contracts is that they're going to start putting games on streaming services.  So you'll have to get Peacock, Apple TV and Prime Video to watch all of the games.  It's very likely that NBC will put at least a few games on Peacock, since they got rid of NBC Sports Network.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2022, 01:51:55 PM

When UGA played Charleson Southern, I wanted to watch and it wasn't on anything, so I went down to a local sports bar.  They had UM-OSU on as well, and I was able to watch 4-5 games at the same time, which was cool.  They had a pretty good beer on special for $4.50 each and I had two, and then I ordered some wings for about $5, so with tip I was out under $20 and actually had a pretty good time.

If they go to much streaming crap, I'll just do that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 09, 2022, 01:55:54 PM

Quote from: Abba on August 09, 2022, 01:46:57 PM

My concern with the TV contracts is that they're going to start putting games on streaming services.  So you'll have to get Peacock, Apple TV and Prime Video to watch all of the games.  It's very likely that NBC will put at least a few games on Peacock, since they got rid of NBC Sports Network.

Hulu covers all the bases at $69/month.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 09, 2022, 01:57:51 PM

doesn't surprise me that the rat pulled out of negotiations. ESPN is a sinking, dying ship. The rat isn't one to throw money down the drain like the others. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 09, 2022, 01:59:00 PM

Quote from: Abba on August 09, 2022, 01:46:57 PM

My concern with the TV contracts is that they're going to start putting games on streaming services.  So you'll have to get Peacock, Apple TV and Prime Video to watch all of the games.  It's very likely that NBC will put at least a few games on Peacock, since they got rid of NBC Sports Network.

Not sure. Peacock has been a massive failure for NBC. They've already tried strong arming people into getting it, and it hasn't worked. Live sports are like the one thing people actually still watch on tv. I don't think they'd be dumb enough to kill the last live tv cash cow they have.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2022, 02:15:43 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/odgU9xc.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Abba on August 09, 2022, 02:16:45 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 09, 2022, 01:59:00 PM

Not sure. Peacock has been a massive failure for NBC. They've already tried strong arming people into getting it, and it hasn't worked. Live sports are like the one thing people actually still watch on tv. I don't think they'd be dumb enough to kill the last live tv cash cow they have.

Oh they'll still put the prime time games on NBC.  But I bet we'll see Ohio State - Youngstown State or some game like that on Peacock next year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 09, 2022, 03:11:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 09, 2022, 01:51:55 PM

When UGA played Charleson Southern, I wanted to watch and it wasn't on anything, so I went down to a local sports bar.  They had UM-OSU on as well, and I was able to watch 4-5 games at the same time, which was cool.  They had a pretty good beer on special for $4.50 each and I had two, and then I ordered some wings for about $5, so with tip I was out under $20 and actually had a pretty good time.

If they go to much streaming crap, I'll just do that.

This was the same logic I used when I cut the cord many years ago. The monthly subscription cost for CATV then was around $60 and I figured that for the few times per month that I REALLY wanted it, it would be cheaper to go to a bar to watch and I get the added benefit of wings and beer.

I may have to reconsider soon. Back then I was single with no kids so running to a bar for a game was easy. I think you are retired and empty-nest so it is easy for you as well. Now I'm married and have three kids so I can't just skip out for 3.5 hours.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2022, 03:20:45 PM

I had dined at this place once before and was unimpressed, it bar food, duh, but once I adjusted expectations it was fine.  Wings are wings.

I remember when they were a quarter each at places.

Like in 1941.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2022, 06:25:13 PM

ATL airport is close to empty 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 09, 2022, 07:05:46 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 09, 2022, 03:20:45 PM

I had dined at this place once before and was unimpressed, it bar food, duh, but once I adjusted expectations it was fine.  Wings are wings.

I remember when they were a quarter each at places.

Like in 1941.

you're not going to get many wings for 5 bucks this fall

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 10, 2022, 06:00:28 AM

I went to Dollar General yesterday.

It's Dollar Fifty General now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 10, 2022, 07:21:14 AM

FACT OF THE DAY:

Cartooning in Japan began in the 12th century, and today more paper is used for comics than for toilet paper in that country.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 10, 2022, 07:43:00 AM

I would wipe my ass with comic books.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 10, 2022, 11:18:29 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 10, 2022, 07:21:14 AM

FACT OF THE DAY:

Cartooning in Japan began in the 12th century, and today more paper is used for comics than for toilet paper in that country.

they don't need toilet paper, they have the most incredible toilets on planet earth. Toto is a Japanese company and they make the best toilets on planet earth. Try out a Toto washlet toilet and it will change your life forever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on August 10, 2022, 11:30:54 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 09, 2022, 03:11:35 PM

This was the same logic I used when I cut the cord many years ago. The monthly subscription cost for CATV then was around $60 and I figured that for the few times per month that I REALLY wanted it, it would be cheaper to go to a bar to watch and I get the added benefit of wings and beer.

I may have to reconsider soon. Back then I was single with no kids so running to a bar for a game was easy. I think you are retired and empty-nest so it is easy for you as well. Now I'm married and have three kids so I can't just skip out for 3.5 hours.

Still going to do it, but going to a bar to watch games you want to watch, but don't have the service ends up in the long run to be more expensive than just getting the services.  Between alcohol and food for even just me and my wife, it adds up quickly.  That said, we love to sit at a bar and converse with the people around us and just have a good time watching the games. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 10, 2022, 11:45:14 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 10, 2022, 11:18:29 AM

they don't need toilet paper, they have the most incredible toilets on planet earth. Toto is a Japanese company and they make the best toilets on planet earth. Try out a Toto washlet toilet and it will change your life forever.

I can buy a lot of comic books for $5K.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 10, 2022, 11:56:46 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 09, 2022, 06:25:13 PM

ATL airport is close to empty

It got busy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 10, 2022, 05:17:18 PM

Well this is great.

New virus detected in China infects 35 people: What to know (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/new-virus-detected-in-china-infects-35-people-what-to-know/ar-AA10wQee?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=6e416ea463ae4dbbbc25a1f5e8013804)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 10, 2022, 06:44:55 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 10, 2022, 05:17:18 PM

Well this is great.

New virus detected in China infects 35 people: What to know (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/new-virus-detected-in-china-infects-35-people-what-to-know/ar-AA10wQee?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=6e416ea463ae4dbbbc25a1f5e8013804)

let's just nuke China off the face of the earth already. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 10, 2022, 07:14:05 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 10, 2022, 07:21:14 AM

FACT OF THE DAY:

Cartooning in Japan began in the 12th century, and today more paper is used for comics than for toilet paper in that country.

So they scoot on the floor like the dog? Talk about hard times

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 10, 2022, 07:15:35 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 10, 2022, 06:44:55 PM

let's just nuke China off the face of the earth already.

sure let them off easy,hope it backfires so at least the CCP suffers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 10, 2022, 09:24:09 PM

Monterey has been ruined 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 10, 2022, 09:46:39 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 10, 2022, 07:14:05 PM

So they scoot on the floor like the dog? Talk about hard times

I've read that 70% of Japanese households have bidets.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2022, 08:00:56 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 10, 2022, 09:24:09 PM

Monterey has been ruined

Please explain.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2022, 09:13:11 AM

Must be talking about the Monterey House chain of Mexican food restaurants.  Expansion ruined them for sure, but aside from this location in Beaumont, I believe they were done by the late 80s or early 90s.

(https://i.imgur.com/CrjvL0j.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 11, 2022, 09:16:47 AM

Nice travel purpose to Michigan today.  

Oldest daughter graduating with Doctorate- CRNA.   

My real retirement plan is finally shaping up- living in her basement 😂🥰

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2022, 09:18:03 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 11, 2022, 09:16:47 AM

Nice travel purpose to Michigan today. 

Oldest daughter graduating with Doctorate- CRNA. 

My real retirement plan is finally shaping up- living in her basement 😂🥰

Congrats to your daughter!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 11, 2022, 09:50:14 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 11, 2022, 09:16:47 AM

Nice travel purpose to Michigan today. 

Oldest daughter graduating with Doctorate- CRNA. 

My real retirement plan is finally shaping up- living in her basement 😂🥰

Congrats !  I didn't know what that was, had to look it up.  Looks like a good field.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2022, 09:59:10 AM

Quote from: Gigem on August 11, 2022, 09:50:14 AM

Congrats !  I didn't know what that was, had to look it up.  Looks like a good field. 

Yes, congrats.

I could use some good sleep. I'll make my appointment in Michigan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 11, 2022, 10:25:23 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 11, 2022, 09:16:47 AM

Nice travel purpose to Michigan today. 

Oldest daughter graduating with Doctorate- CRNA. 

My real retirement plan is finally shaping up- living in her basement 😂🥰

well that’s just awesome!

and I’m sure you will appoint the basement well, with a large couch and an even larger TV

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2022, 10:27:59 AM

What's a "basement?"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2022, 10:37:31 AM

It's a place for kids to play when it's cold, snowy and cloudy for 6 months.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on August 11, 2022, 02:09:58 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 11, 2022, 10:27:59 AM

What's a "basement?"

Where you go when the tornado sirens turn on.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2022, 02:16:33 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on August 11, 2022, 02:09:58 PM

Where you go when the tornado sirens turn on.

Probably no good for earthquakes, eh?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on August 11, 2022, 02:49:54 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2022, 02:16:33 PM

Probably no good for earthquakes, eh?

Depends on the magnitude.  Anything 5.0 on the Richter Scale or less, it's probably still one of the safest places to be (especially due to less chance of broken glass).  When you get above 5.0 though, now you are getting into the area where there is a chance that you are receiving enough structural damage for a partial floor collapse.  At that point, a first floor bathroom door jam, bathtub, or even under a kitchen table is your likely best source of shelter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 12, 2022, 09:19:21 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/QTjz0Fm.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 12, 2022, 09:22:36 AM

I feel like this is incredible news and nobody really knows about it. The United States is dominating space thanks to private enterprise. And the gap is only going to get wider once starship comes online. It will be fully reusable and drop the cost to launch more and bigger cargo. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 12, 2022, 09:31:57 AM

what is the upside or impact on the average human?

I know we got Teflon from the space program and I appreciate that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 12, 2022, 09:53:58 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 12, 2022, 09:31:57 AM

what is the upside or impact on the average human?

I know we got Teflon from the space program and I appreciate that

and Tang.  Don't forget Tang.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 12, 2022, 09:57:17 AM

is that crap still available?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 12, 2022, 10:01:02 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 12, 2022, 09:57:17 AM

is that crap still available?

Amazon.com: Tang (https://www.amazon.com/stores/Tang/page/A1560BC7-8959-4E3E-B924-08F99943191C?ref_=ast_bln)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 12, 2022, 10:33:30 AM

damn it!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 12, 2022, 11:04:30 AM

Leaving Monterey for wine country up north today.  Drove down to Big Sur yesterday.  Who knows what Sur means?

Easy one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 12, 2022, 11:14:34 AM

Well I speak Spanish so I know....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 12, 2022, 11:29:13 AM

I'm hoping to take my daughters to Monterey, wine country and to see the redwoods and San Fran in the next year or two

was planning for a year or two ago, but COVID

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 12, 2022, 08:17:25 PM

I thought @Gigem (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1706)  would be interested in this.

Nothing surprising here, of course.

https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1558117353866506240?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1558117353866506240%7Ctwgr%5E5b304e9ca85a0592f0a4d1cf6e6a707fefa66f30%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FReuters%2Fstatus%2F1558117353866506240%3Fs%3D2026t%3DaPZoZ31QBON4yRLFgAXpVg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 12, 2022, 11:56:14 PM

They have to do it. SX is so far ahead of the other commercial and govt launchers the economics are driving decisions now. Europe is developing the Arianne 6 rocket to secede the highly reliable and formerly economical Arianne 5. But it’s not reusable, and won’t be cheap enough. 

The ESA was using the Soviet/Russian Soyuz rocket for their small launches and non-govt commercial launchers. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 13, 2022, 12:06:09 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 12, 2022, 09:31:57 AM

what is the upside or impact on the average human?

I know we got Teflon from the space program and I appreciate that

It’s a paradigm shift. It gets space out of the domain and control of the govt and into the hands of business and other non-govt entities. 

for example, the list of humans that have gone into space is numbered into the hundreds. About 500-600. For the last 60+ years. And most of those people have flown on govt rockets. But now there is a trickle of people who are flying on commercial rockets. Fwiw I do not consider Jeff Bezos and Blue Origins New Shepard rocket to be a true space experience. It’s really a toy.  A really neat, but useless toy. 

600 people in 60 years.  I’m betting that number will double by the end of this decade and the majority will be on private rockets. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 13, 2022, 12:15:18 AM

Northrop Grumman flies a supply capsule to the ISS called Cygnus. The rocket, called Antares, uses Russian engines and a Ukrainian upper stage. They are also partnering with SX to send up a few flights and then they’re going to start sending them up on a new, upgraded rocket they’re building with another new space company called Firefly. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 13, 2022, 06:19:10 AM

Quote from: Gigem on August 13, 2022, 12:06:09 AM

It’s a paradigm shift. It gets space out of the domain and control of the govt and into the hands of business and other non-govt entities.

for example, the list of humans that have gone into space is numbered into the hundreds. About 500-600. For the last 60+ years. And most of those people have flown on govt rockets. But now there is a trickle of people who are flying on commercial rockets. Fwiw I do not consider Jeff Bezos and Blue Origins New Shepard rocket to be a true space experience. It’s really a toy.  A really neat, but useless toy.

600 people in 60 years.  I’m betting that number will double by the end of this decade and the majority will be on private rockets.

I wonder what the death rate will be in the next decade compared to NASA's.  I bet it's higher.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 13, 2022, 07:06:37 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 11, 2022, 10:27:59 AM

What's a "basement?"

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2022, 10:37:31 AM

It's a place for kids to play when it's cold, snowy and cloudy for 6 months.

Watch it Buster,that's ground zero from Sept thru the Holidays just got a 65 '' for down there.Same old Chief Wahoo easy chair though.Almost pulled the pin on a Kegerator Purchase but that could be problematic

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 13, 2022, 07:10:05 AM

Quote from: grillrat on August 11, 2022, 02:49:54 PM

Depends on the magnitude.  Anything 5.0 on the Richter Scale or less, it's probably still one of the safest places to be (especially due to less chance of broken glass).  When you get above 5.0 though, now you are getting into the area where there is a chance that you are receiving enough structural damage for a partial floor collapse.  At that point, a first floor bathroom door jam, bathtub, or even under a kitchen table is your likely best source of shelter.

I'll remember that should the occasion ever arise. I've got an Amish Brute

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 13, 2022, 07:14:14 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 12, 2022, 11:14:34 AM

Well I speak Spanish so I know....

Latin American for SIR?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 13, 2022, 08:36:33 AM

Quote from: Gigem on August 13, 2022, 12:06:09 AM

It’s a paradigm shift. It gets space out of the domain and control of the govt and into the hands of business and other non-govt entities.

for example, the list of humans that have gone into space is numbered into the hundreds. About 500-600. For the last 60+ years. And most of those people have flown on govt rockets. But now there is a trickle of people who are flying on commercial rockets. Fwiw I do not consider Jeff Bezos and Blue Origins New Shepard rocket to be a true space experience. It’s really a toy.  A really neat, but useless toy.

600 people in 60 years.  I’m betting that number will double by the end of this decade and the majority will be on private rockets.

I agree with this...
How will this affect the folks on this message board?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 13, 2022, 09:16:05 PM

You could get internet service from Starlink, which is a constellation of satellites that orbit much lower than traditional internet satellites and provide high speed with low latency. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 13, 2022, 09:19:02 PM

In the somewhat distant future, say 10+ years, you could book a trip and fly into space. Maybe even around the moon, or possibly land on the moon. It would still be expensive, but perhaps in the hundreds of thousands of dollars or maybe low millions. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 14, 2022, 12:24:23 AM

internet service from Starlink sucks today

flying into space isn't a deal for most. Cincy might try it for $100,000

the space program isn't worthless but....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 14, 2022, 11:47:43 AM

Do you have first hand experience with starlink? Because I know several people who have it and they say it works great. It is subject to periods with no service, but they are still building it out. It’s not meant for urban environments, but places that do not have internet stall or very limited options. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 14, 2022, 11:54:51 AM

I do not.

I was an internet provider for 20 years.
Starlink is a competitor to many of my customers today

yes, with any satellite such as Direct TV or Dish Network, there will be outages related to weather.

upstream speeds are not good with most satellite internet services, perhaps Starlink is better.

there is also a lag in latency - gamers don't appreciate latency

a fiber connection is always the best option, but I understand that's not feasible in some remote rural areas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 14, 2022, 12:19:46 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 14, 2022, 11:54:51 AM

I do not.

I was an internet provider for 20 years.
Starlink is a competitor to many of my customers today

yes, with any satellite such as Direct TV or Dish Network, there will be outages related to weather.

upstream speeds are not good with most satellite internet services, perhaps Starlink is better.

there is also a lag in latency - gamers don't appreciate latency

a fiber connection is always the best option, but I understand that's not feasible in some remote rural areas

There's no fiber available in my neighborhood located in a suburb of one of the major high tech cities in the entire world.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 14, 2022, 12:32:43 PM

yup, most politicians think the digital divide is poor in nrural areas, but the vast majority og people that don't have decent internet service is in major metropolitan areas served by the big phone companies such as Century Link, now named Lumen and probably AT&T in Austin.

Those huge companies don't reinvest money in their outside plant (Fiber optic) like smaller companies 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 14, 2022, 12:40:42 PM

I just moved 2 blocks west and 1 block north.  $200 rent increase avoided.  Have more room now, but in a more ghetto spot.  
Fun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 14, 2022, 12:43:27 PM

yes, but did you get a better internet provider?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 14, 2022, 09:47:33 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 14, 2022, 11:54:51 AM

I do not.

I was an internet provider for 20 years.
Starlink is a competitor to many of my customers today

yes, with any satellite such as Direct TV or Dish Network, there will be outages related to weather.

upstream speeds are not good with most satellite internet services, perhaps Starlink is better.

there is also a lag in latency - gamers don't appreciate latency

a fiber connection is always the best option, but I understand that's not feasible in some remote rural areas

Not to beat the SpaceX drum too much, but Starlink is supposed to be different. Since the satellites are in a much lower orbit the latency is much lower. Previous satellite internet systems used one or two big birds in geosynchronous orbit, which means they appear to be stationary to the earth.

Starlink is more like a mobile phone system where the towers are moving instead of the phone. It’s a constellation of small birds, they deploy 60 at every launch.

Don’t take my word for it.  Here’s a article from ookla.

https://www.ookla.com/articles/starlink-hughesnet-viasat-performance-q1-2022

(https://i.imgur.com/gkS30g6.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 14, 2022, 09:54:38 PM

Fiber will always be the best obviously. For some, Starlink will be the best and really the only choice. 

Luckily in my small hometown we still have an independent telecom company. One of only a few left in Texas. They put fiber in a few years ago, we have 100 mbps. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 14, 2022, 10:27:44 PM

Same internet, and both places have the same system, so didn't have to deal with returning/starting new, just a few clicks on a computer and it transferred to my new place - same hardware and all.  Surprisingly easy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 14, 2022, 10:55:45 PM

One night on Rohnert Park before red eye back, got upgraded to first at least.  Nice resort hotel here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 14, 2022, 11:08:36 PM

Rohnert Park had a damn good fast pitch softball team back in the 90s

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 14, 2022, 11:09:16 PM

Quote from: Gigem on August 14, 2022, 09:54:38 PM

Fiber will always be the best obviously. For some, Starlink will be the best and really the only choice.

Luckily in my small hometown we still have an independent telecom company. One of only a few left in Texas. They put fiber in a few years ago, we have 100 mbps.

there are 120 independent telecom companies in Iowa

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 15, 2022, 11:50:41 AM

Dick Cheney says Donald Trump is the "gravest threat to our democracy" in the 246 year history of the country. Dick Cheney also says a real man wouldn't lie to his supporters. Literally can't make this shit up. Mainstream media slurping off the Cheney's....WILD considering they were the biggest most vile evil pieces of shit and the greatest threat from within to the US in history. My only wish is that god/hell were real so Dick Cheney could rot in hell for eternity. There isn't a bigger POS pol in US history that deserves that fate.

https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1555328001876918277?s=20&t=0FsCGM-PW71Qdi9CNAVWJg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 15, 2022, 12:14:18 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 15, 2022, 11:50:41 AM

Dick Cheney says Donald Trump is the "gravest threat to our democracy" in the 246 year history of the country. Dick Cheney also says a real man wouldn't lie to his supporters. Literally can't make this shit up. Mainstream media slurping off the Cheney's....WILD considering they were the biggest most vile evil pieces of shit and the greatest threat from within to the US in history. My only wish is that god/hell were real so Dick Cheney could rot in hell for eternity. There isn't a bigger POS pol in US history that deserves that fate.

https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1555328001876918277?s=20&t=0FsCGM-PW71Qdi9CNAVWJg

It sounds to me that Trump was getting a litte to close to exposing the swamp and those that thrive(d) in it. It sounds like Cheney is doing anything he can to keep Trump from being allowed to run for office so that he is not able to finish the job. Kind of makes me want to vote for Trump just to see Cheney and others exposed for the crooks that they are. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 15, 2022, 12:37:35 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 15, 2022, 12:14:18 PM

It sounds to me that Trump was getting a litte to close to exposing the swamp and those that thrive(d) in it. It sounds like Cheney is doing anything he can to keep Trump from being allowed to run for office so that he is not able to finish the job. Kind of makes me want to vote for Trump just to see Cheney and others exposed for the crooks that they are.

the fact that Dick Cheney ever shows his face again in public is wild to me. The fact that he's being slurped off by "liberals" and main stream media is beyond wild. That son of a bitch should be in a padded cell in the Hague for war crimes and crimes against humanity until the end of his days. He should be spit on and have human feces thrown on him everywhere he goes and be publicly shamed until the day he dies. There isn't a fate cruel enough for that scoundrel.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 15, 2022, 12:45:18 PM

true story: Dick Cheney shot his friend in the face with a shotgun on a hunting trip and then made his friend whom he shot in the face apologize to him.

DICK still hasn't apologized to his friend for shooting him in the face. :043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 15, 2022, 01:52:59 PM

'Never Has America Faced A Greater Threat Than Donald Trump,' Says Guy Who Started Two Wars And Shot A Dude In The Face | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/never-has-america-faced-a-greater-threat-than-donald-trump-says-guy-who-started-two-wars-and-shot-a-dude-in-the-face)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 15, 2022, 01:53:42 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 15, 2022, 12:14:18 PM

It sounds to me that Trump was getting a litte to close to exposing the swamp and those that thrive(d) in it. It sounds like Cheney is doing anything he can to keep Trump from being allowed to run for office so that he is not able to finish the job. Kind of makes me want to vote for Trump just to see Cheney and others exposed for the crooks that they are.

if this would actually happen I'd vote for Trump again

I have absolutely zero faith this would happen

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 15, 2022, 07:49:33 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 15, 2022, 01:52:59 PM

'Never Has America Faced A Greater Threat Than Donald Trump,' Says Guy Who Started Two Wars And Shot A Dude In The Face | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/never-has-america-faced-a-greater-threat-than-donald-trump-says-guy-who-started-two-wars-and-shot-a-dude-in-the-face)

That site is supposed to be satire, yet that headline is ... just kinda blandly true. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 15, 2022, 08:38:47 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 15, 2022, 07:49:33 PM

That site is supposed to be satire, yet that headline is ... just kinda blandly true.

opinion noted

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 15, 2022, 09:18:30 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 15, 2022, 08:38:47 PM

opinion noted

?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 15, 2022, 09:53:20 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 15, 2022, 09:18:30 PM

?

??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 15, 2022, 10:00:19 PM

I'll play
.
???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 15, 2022, 10:17:31 PM

I don't play

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 15, 2022, 10:47:06 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 15, 2022, 07:49:33 PM

That site is supposed to be satire, yet that headline is ... just kinda blandly true.

Eh, I'd call it overly simple  and blandly untrue.  From the Russian-Ukraine war alone, the US currently faces thousands of immediate threats that are much worse than Donald Trump.  And I don't even like the guy and never once voted for him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 15, 2022, 11:18:41 PM

think you guys are all missing his point....he's saying that headline is basically true and that it's not satire. Not that he agrees with Dick Cheney's opinion of Donald Trump. He's saying that it's preposterous that Dick Cheney- a certified WAR CRIMINAL- who shot his own friend in the face and never apologized btw- has damaged this country and the world at large in ways Donald Trump could only wet dream of- is trying to decry that Donald Trump is the gravest threat this country has ever faced. Cheney was FAR more grave a threat to this country and he damaged this country and this world in ways that it may never recover. Cheney is one of the most evil vile people ever to live. Trump is just some narcissistic blow hard in comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQysjx1ncbE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BEAHmsUPdY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 15, 2022, 11:36:05 PM

probably the greatest prank Sacha Baron Cohen has ever pulled on a pol, he got Dick Cheney to sign his waterboard jug....:043:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WMHC7d3VWI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ1LJvOxo6Q

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 16, 2022, 12:32:22 AM

At SFO for midnight flight to Georgia… and just took a shower at an airport 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 16, 2022, 01:17:59 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 16, 2022, 12:32:22 AM

At SFO for midnight flight to Georgia… and just took a shower at an airport

midnight flight to Georgia would be a great song title

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 16, 2022, 07:27:31 AM

Dick definitely is one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 16, 2022, 08:30:57 AM

I was playing in a baseball game when we all found out that Elvis died - 45 years ago today.

Where were you when it happened?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 16, 2022, 08:39:15 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 16, 2022, 12:32:22 AM

At SFO for midnight flight to Georgia… and just took a shower at an airport

first time?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 16, 2022, 08:40:39 AM

We were in the car, coming home from a family summer trip. We'd been in the deep interior of Mexico for about 3 weeks, but had just come back across the border to visit my aunt and cousins in Albuquerque.  We stopped for dinner at an old diner-style restaurant and were about to go in, when it came on the radio.  I was young and it didn't really mean anything to me, but my parents were visibly shaken.  It was a quiet dinner.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 16, 2022, 09:15:15 AM

I'm scratching my head here.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-approves-nearly-all-tech-exports-to-china-data-shows-11660596886?st=j94t4ic1nkql2gt&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 16, 2022, 09:25:11 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 16, 2022, 09:15:15 AM

I'm scratching my head here.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-approves-nearly-all-tech-exports-to-china-data-shows-11660596886?st=j94t4ic1nkql2gt&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

I've been beating this drum for years.  It's quite... concerning.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 16, 2022, 10:03:58 AM

I was at work and some girls started crying and when someone told me why it was a shock

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 16, 2022, 11:06:11 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 16, 2022, 09:15:15 AM

I'm scratching my head here.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-approves-nearly-all-tech-exports-to-china-data-shows-11660596886?st=j94t4ic1nkql2gt&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

In a sort of macro sense, I get why. In a micro sense, the mechanics of this seem antithetical to a lot of views folks hold. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 16, 2022, 01:40:53 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/6xF7Hpo.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 16, 2022, 01:45:54 PM

Nice. gEEK humor is best humor.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 16, 2022, 04:15:00 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 16, 2022, 09:15:15 AM

I'm scratching my head here.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-approves-nearly-all-tech-exports-to-china-data-shows-11660596886?st=j94t4ic1nkql2gt&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

is it that confusing though? Biden's son has major business with China. Biden has always been a pushover when it comes to China, because his family has had major business interests with that country and Biden is a corrupt piece of shit. One of the most corrupt do nothing blowhard pols we've ever had in this country. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 16, 2022, 07:13:29 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 16, 2022, 07:27:31 AM

Dick definitely is one.

What a Great song or a DICK ? ;D. Hope he gets Monkey Pox,Ebola,Mad Cow's,Diaper Rash,Dreaded Lurgi or the Great Siberian Itch. Apologies to any plagues not mentioned

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 16, 2022, 07:21:39 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 16, 2022, 04:15:00 PM

is it that confusing though? Biden's son has major business with China. Biden has always been a pushover when it comes to China, because his family has had major business interests with that country and Biden is a corrupt piece of shit. One of the most corrupt do nothing blowhard pols we've ever had in this country.

Our softness on China is hardly related solely to the Biden family, it goes back decades.  But that's certainly one area where I was aligned with our previous president.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 16, 2022, 09:25:03 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 16, 2022, 07:21:39 PM

Our softness on China is hardly related solely to the Biden family, it goes back decades.  But that's certainly one area where I was aligned with our previous president.

In this particular case, it's interesting. We're basically saying, "the government needs to step in and stop business from doing business with customers capable of delivering serious revenue." Obviously it's not the first or last time the government will do something like that, but I think it important to put this particular thing in that context.

This might vaguely be a case of striking at China, but it's also a case of vetoing business deals to put sizable dents in Fortune 500 bottom lines as a first-order effect. And a second-order effect of possible reprisals that exacerbate our already sizable inflation concerns. And if that's worth the choice, all good, but important to note that.

(In some ways, China will always have an edge when it comes to old-school mercantilist d$^# measuring. It's a government that can make policy with almost no concern about what happens to its people, and it's willing to give away value, in a macroeconomic sense, to look good/intimidating)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 16, 2022, 10:55:33 PM

We have all sorts of stringent trade restrictions with all sorts of countries out there. This is nothing new. I spent several years supporting Export Controls for the extremely large computer manufacturing company that I currently work for---  the government has no problem restricting trade when it desires to do so.  And companies always manage.

In many ways cutting trade ties with China is simple for us-- far simpler than it would be for many other countries.  In the grand scheme, we don't export all that much in finished goods to China.  Indeed, by their own design, China imports very little from anyone.  On the flipside, China relies heavily on exports to the USA and the West.  So from the perspective of trade balance, severing all ties with China would hurt them a lot more than it would hurt us.  Sure we'd need to develop new partners to fill the gap, but there are no shortage of more amicable partners globally, willing and able to do so.

The trickiest part, is untangling our own US-owned corporate manufacturing dependence from China.  But as we've discussed here several times, for several reasons, China is no longer considered a Low Cost Manufacturing Nation for a majority of the goods that US companies have outsourced there.  There are now numerous countries that can manufacture at lower costs, and that don't involve the omnipresent CCP... entanglements... that US companies must currently endure.

It took decades to get this mixed up with China, and it would take a long time to disentangle.  But it's not impossible, far from it.  Many companies are already engaged in the first steps.  The current challenges with the global supply chain, many of which originate in China, have put domestic companies on red alert.  It's not being taken lightly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 17, 2022, 07:24:09 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 16, 2022, 07:21:39 PM

Our softness on China is hardly related solely to the Biden family, it goes back decades.  But that's certainly one area where I was aligned with our previous president.

very true. It goes back decades, and the Clinton, Bush, and Obama administrations were paper tissue soft as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 17, 2022, 08:43:43 AM

Studies have concluded that all mammals get about a billion heartbeats per lifetime. They can use them at a rate of a thousand per minute, like the shrew, or space them out into slow, ponderous beats, over many years, as is the case for the Grey whale. But there are notable exceptions. Some species get more than their fair billion beats. The extent to which these species live beyond a billion beats must depend in part upon unique features of their biology. Whatever these features are, if we understood them, we might be able to figure out new ways to extend our own health, push our enfeebled and worn cells and hearts through a few more beats, maybe many. But first, we need heart rate data for as many species as possible.

Humans in modern times are over 3 billion on average.

If you use an average of 80 beats per minute, your heart  (https://www.wonderopolis.org/wonder/how-many-times-does-your-heart-beat-in-a-lifetime#)beats about 4,800 times per hour. That's a whopping 115,200 times per day. Over the course of a year, your heart  (https://www.wonderopolis.org/wonder/how-many-times-does-your-heart-beat-in-a-lifetime#)would beat  (https://www.wonderopolis.org/wonder/how-many-times-does-your-heart-beat-in-a-lifetime#)about 42,048,000 times! If you live to be 80 years old, your heart  (https://www.wonderopolis.org/wonder/how-many-times-does-your-heart-beat-in-a-lifetime#)would have beaten approximately 3,363,840,000 times! That's over 3 billion heartbeats! What a muscle!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 17, 2022, 09:35:13 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 16, 2022, 10:55:33 PM

We have all sorts of stringent trade restrictions with all sorts of countries out there. This is nothing new. I spent several years supporting Export Controls for the extremely large computer manufacturing company that I currently work for---  the government has no problem restricting trade when it desires to do so.  And companies always manage.

In many ways cutting trade ties with China is simple for us-- far simpler than it would be for many other countries.  In the grand scheme, we don't export all that much in finished goods to China.  Indeed, by their own design, China imports very little from anyone.  On the flipside, China relies heavily on exports to the USA and the West.  So from the perspective of trade balance, severing all ties with China would hurt them a lot more than it would hurt us.  Sure we'd need to develop new partners to fill the gap, but there are no shortage of more amicable partners globally, willing and able to do so.

The trickiest part, is untangling our own US-owned corporate manufacturing dependence from China.  But as we've discussed here several times, for several reasons, China is no longer considered a Low Cost Manufacturing Nation for a majority of the goods that US companies have outsourced there.  There are now numerous countries that can manufacture at lower costs, and that don't involve the omnipresent CCP... entanglements... that US companies must currently endure.

It took decades to get this mixed up with China, and it would take a long time to disentangle.  But it's not impossible, far from it.  Many companies are already engaged in the first steps.  The current challenges with the global supply chain, many of which originate in China, have put domestic companies on red alert.  It's not being taken lightly.

Time to start the process, however painful it may be.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 17, 2022, 09:56:33 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 17, 2022, 09:35:13 AM

Time to start the process, however painful it may be.

Fair enough. As long as we are ready for the pain, is what it is. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 17, 2022, 10:14:12 AM

It has to be done. There is no choice here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 17, 2022, 12:06:37 PM

Many things have to be done, but aren't, and there are consequences as a result.  It is said I have to pay taxes, but in reality, I don't.  Bad things happen if I don't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 17, 2022, 01:07:33 PM

I found and purchased sriracha at my local grocery store yesterday.

Whew, crisis averted.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 17, 2022, 02:02:58 PM

The first ketchup is centuries old … and very different.
The story of how that red tomato-based sauce made by a company in Pittsburgh ended up in your fridge actually starts with a fish sauce in China. Yes, really. According to the History Channel (https://www.history.com/news/ketchup-surprising-ancient-history),  a fish sauce referred to as "ge-thcup" or "koe-cheup" in the local southern Chinese dialect likely served as the starting point for ketchup's long, winding journey to its present form. Though its exact age is hard to pin down, but some food scholars (http://languageoffood.blogspot.com/2009/09/ketchup.html) argue that some version of this type of fish sauce may be more than two millennia old. The sauce that served as a starting point for modern ketchup was effectively a fermented paste derived from fish entrails and soybeans lauded for particularly strong pungence, and ability to hold up over the course of a long journey at sea.
It was precisely that last quality, in addition to its satisfyingly salty taste, that made the condiment an appealing commodity for British sailors along trade routes in southeast Asia. By the 1700s, this fermented fish paste had won enough of them over that they endeavored to bring it back home to England. In a preview of what was to come, the recipe was quickly bastardized, which I guess will happen when you're taking a condiment halfway around the world in the early 18th century. One contemporary recipe  (http://languageoffood.blogspot.com/2009/09/ketchup.html)from 1736 called for reproducing the condiment by boiling "two quarts of strong, stale beer and half a pound of anchovies," which is then left to ferment.

In 1800s England, Ketchup was anything you wanted it to be.
Thankfully, ketchup's recipe has evolved from "mix stale beer with anchovies," but not without a circuitous route to its present form. Ketchup had caught on in England (and in the US) by the 19th century, but there wasn't a whole lot of consensus about how it should be made.
As a result, cooks could (and definitely did) make their own take on ketchup derived from all sorts of ingredients that we would hardly associate with the fast food items and backyard cookout staples we douse with ketchup today. We're talking oyster ketchup. Walnut ketchup. Lemon ketchup. Heck, even peach and plum served as the base for a ketchup. Pride and Prejudice author Jane Austen was known to be particularly fond of a certain mushroom ketchup recipe.
While these ketchups were either boiled into a sort of syrup or salted and left to ferment, they usually had something in common: an intensely salty and spicy flavor. It may have been a bit intense on the palate, but its longevity before spoiling certainly helped drive its adoption.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 17, 2022, 02:26:31 PM

I like ketchup on a hot dog, so long it's yellow and made from vinegar and mustard seeds.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 17, 2022, 02:34:56 PM

Kids prefer it, in general, I find.  Adults tend to prefer a more ... vinagery profile?

I rarely eat hotdogs any more but I like'em.  Onion, slaw, sauerkraut, mustard, I can tolerate some relish but don't relish it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on August 17, 2022, 02:46:13 PM

On eggs, if there's no salsa.  That's it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 17, 2022, 03:27:12 PM

Eggs?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 17, 2022, 03:42:06 PM

Quote from: ELA on August 17, 2022, 02:46:13 PM

On eggs, if there's no salsa.  That's it

I have found a little feta cheese does wonders

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 17, 2022, 03:42:13 PM

I like salsa on eggs, a lot, but not ketchup.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 17, 2022, 04:18:59 PM

Quote from: ELA on August 17, 2022, 02:46:13 PM

On eggs, if there's no salsa.  That's it

Does not compute.  There is always salsa.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 17, 2022, 05:07:28 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/V00zQqn.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 17, 2022, 07:10:06 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 17, 2022, 12:06:37 PM

Many things have to be done, but aren't, and there are consequences as a result.  It is said I have to pay taxes, but in reality, I don't.  Bad things happen if I don't.

yeah, you won't have roads to drive on

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 17, 2022, 09:30:18 PM

Quote from: ELA on August 17, 2022, 02:46:13 PM

On eggs, if there's no salsa.  That's it

(https://c.tenor.com/tyJIpjrG0QkAAAAd/pukemouth.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 18, 2022, 08:59:53 AM

We have mostly old white guys in charge of our country, and Finland has this.  I think I'm moving.

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1560015797367488517?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1560015797367488517%7Ctwgr%5Efcc146dd068db447b8de6f7e7b363e61543f8c3c%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fvisegrad24%2Fstatus%2F1560015797367488517

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 18, 2022, 09:37:54 AM

Nobody should be President who actually wants to be President.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 18, 2022, 11:15:47 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/aa9DnQZ.png)

Cadillac Shows the Imposing 2024 Celestiq Road Testing in Michigan (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/news/2024-cadillac-celestiq-electric-vehicle-luxury-prototype-testing/?sm_id=organic%3Asm_id%3Afb%3AAMAG%3Atrueanthem&fbclid=IwAR3loIDCdw0BaV1A7qCJFD-fJe_PHbOkm_ay3ckRFwdwh1NBB5W-_6jXgy0)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on August 18, 2022, 11:17:41 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 17, 2022, 07:10:06 PM

yeah, you won't have roads to drive on

(https://i.imgflip.com/1s6d2s.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 18, 2022, 03:25:43 PM

I found an extra box in the condo today in a closet I rarely deal with.  I was wondering if this is up to code.

(https://i.imgur.com/XSpmzib.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 18, 2022, 03:29:00 PM

Ha!

Walk, no run, away.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 18, 2022, 03:33:52 PM

I could use the screw drivers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 19, 2022, 12:08:05 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 18, 2022, 09:37:54 AM

Nobody should be President who actually wants to be President.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2wNEbG_OHE

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 19, 2022, 07:09:02 AM

Wall for me... nada for thee...

After spending much of his summer vacation on Kiawah Island, South Carolina, President Biden is heading back to his multimillion-dollar beach house in his home state of Delaware, where he’s building a taxpayer-funded security fence at a cost that’s ballooned to nearly $500,000.

(https://i.imgur.com/peH3or1.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 19, 2022, 08:55:06 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 18, 2022, 03:33:52 PM

I could use the screw drivers.

I'm a woodworker and a fix-it guy and an electronic hobbyist and a vintage "stuff" restorer.  I have a lot of tools.  Like, way more tools than any average homeowner needs, although not as many as a professional tradesman would have.

And still, I can't ever find the right screwdriver when I need one.

I have 2 complete sets of tools in travel toolboxes and one large garage roll-around, including full sets of open-end wrenches,  box-end wrenches, every driver bit known to man, crescent wrenches, torque wrench, multiple sizes of pliers and channel-locks, vice grips, and... supposedly... full sets of screwdrivers.

And yet... nada.

About once per year I swing by Harbor Freight and grab another full set of cheapie screwdrivers just to have SOMEthing, but within a few months, I can't find them.

And in general I do a really good job of putting away my tools.

But apparently, not for screwdrivers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2022, 09:20:40 AM

I think screwdrivers are like socks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on August 19, 2022, 09:35:27 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 19, 2022, 07:09:02 AM

Wall for me... nada for thee...

After spending much of his summer vacation on Kiawah Island, South Carolina, President Biden is heading back to his multimillion-dollar beach house in his home state of Delaware, where he’s building a taxpayer-funded security fence at a cost that’s ballooned to nearly $500,000.

(https://i.imgur.com/peH3or1.png)

Considering the American taxpayer got soaked for at least 40 times that paying for the previous occupant's golf cheating, I have a hard time finding much to complain about here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 19, 2022, 09:55:48 AM

You missed the point...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 19, 2022, 09:59:14 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on August 19, 2022, 09:35:27 AM

Considering the American taxpayer got soaked for at least 40 times that paying for the previous occupant's golf cheating, I have a hard time finding much to complain about here.

I didn’t comment on the original post, because it seemed like at best bait to get pulled into an extremely pointless argument. We don’t have to succumb to that pointless argument.

(it is an extremely funky bit of news framing. But it’s the “mainstream media” designing content to rile people, so I suppose that is what it is)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 19, 2022, 10:06:59 AM

It's not bait.

I would just like and appreciate a secure and safe border. 

What's happening in Texas is an atrocity for that state and its people, and also for the well-intentioned people trying to cross over.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2022, 10:08:08 AM

I'd guess providing security is important, and it's probably facilitated by having a fence, meaning fewer SS agents need be present.

Maybe.

Such steps are pretty common with a new President.  I prefer they vacation at Camp David myself, or just vacation all the time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on August 19, 2022, 11:26:09 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 17, 2022, 02:34:56 PM

Kids prefer it, in general, I find.  Adults tend to prefer a more ... vinagery profile?

I rarely eat hotdogs any more but I like'em.  Onion, slaw, sauerkraut, mustard, I can tolerate some relish but don't relish it.

Forget Ketchup.  ABSOLUTELY NO TO MUSTARD.  CHili, cheese and onions go on a hot dog

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 19, 2022, 11:29:51 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 19, 2022, 09:20:40 AM

I think screwdrivers are like socks.

This is my suspicion as well.

Or the underpants gnomes have expanded their enterprise...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 19, 2022, 12:04:08 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 19, 2022, 11:29:51 AM

This is my suspicion as well.

Or the underpants gnomes have expanded their enterprise...

One word


Sears

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 19, 2022, 12:08:12 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 19, 2022, 12:04:08 PM

One word


Sears

Hasn't been a Sears around here in almost a decade.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2022, 12:23:40 PM

One thing that surprised me in France was their enormous variety of mustards.  This store is like a museum, to mustard.

https://us.maille.com/blogs/boutiques/paris-la-maison-maille-boutique-update

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 19, 2022, 12:30:54 PM

Yup, lots of different mustards over there.

And of course, mayonnaise, for their pomme frites.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2022, 12:34:28 PM

My wife is still searching for real French bread around here.  I think we have 5-6 kinds of Mustard in the fridge now even though I tell her it is shelf stable.

She had ketchup there for a while also.

Vinegar is pretty wonderful stuff.  Dilute acetic acid.

And how about this alkaline water stuff!!!!!:93:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 19, 2022, 12:37:30 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 19, 2022, 12:08:12 PM

Hasn't been a Sears around here in almost a decade.

one word


online

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2022, 12:43:54 PM

When we moved here in 1964, there was one Sears in the entire town.  It was huge, and still exists, as a kind of shopping center.  It's amazingly popular to boot.  We walk over there at times, not so much of late, it's kind of fad oriented, I think.  There are a couple nice breweries just past it though.  That whole area is exploding with development.

(https://i.imgur.com/LUoq2T1.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 19, 2022, 12:45:14 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/f8iyRqM.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 19, 2022, 12:46:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 19, 2022, 12:34:28 PM

My wife is still searching for real French bread around here.  I think we have 5-6 kinds of Mustard in the fridge now even though I tell her it is shelf stable.

She had ketchup there for a while also.

Vinegar is pretty wonderful stuff.  Dilute acetic acid.

And how about this alkaline water stuff!!!!!:93:

My i s c & a aggie wife puts ketchup in the fridge and I can't stand cold ketchup, so I keep a separate bottle in the pantry.

As for French bread-- to me, it's a misnomer, or perhaps more accurately, a unicorn.  Because whilst living and working in France, I ate no fewer than two dozen different varieties of bread.  All were French, of course.  There is no such thing as one kind of French bread, not that I could ever identify anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 19, 2022, 12:47:31 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 19, 2022, 12:45:14 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/f8iyRqM.jpg)

Yup I pick up a new set like this about once per year.  Still can't ever find one when I need it.  It's a very curious thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 19, 2022, 12:50:31 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 19, 2022, 12:47:31 PM

Yup I pick up a new set like this about once per year.  Still can't ever find one when I need it.  It's a very curious thing.

Check your fuse box maybe?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2022, 12:50:50 PM

The French bread to me is the standard white bread you get over there at bistros and in sandwiches.

I think I only have 3 screwdrivers and they are always where I left them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 19, 2022, 01:00:40 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 19, 2022, 12:50:50 PM

The French bread to me is the standard white bread you get over there at bistros and in sandwiches.

I guess?  I've had French sandwiches at French bistros on baguettes.  I've had them on soft bread.  I've had them on what looks like a country loaf.  

The most standard French bread I experienced over there, I guess, would be a typical baguette that is served at dinnertime.  But even then, there was some variety in the consistency of the crumb, some being softer and fluffier, and some being more dense, which to me is more like Italian bread but there it was, in a French bistro. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2022, 01:02:27 PM

I'm less traveled than you of course in France, but I have a notion of FB that my wife shares.  Maybe it's more related to the taste.

Anyway, now I'm hankering for some chili.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 19, 2022, 01:07:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 19, 2022, 01:02:27 PM

I'm less traveled than you of course in France, but I have a notion of FB that my wife shares.  Maybe it's more related to the taste.

Anyway, now I'm hankering for some chili.

Well she clearly likes one particular thing, and she can't find it.  I can understand that.

I can go to France and they have restaurants that are "Tex-Mex" but they don't have much in common with the Tex-Mex I eat around here.  In typical French fashion, they serve the skirt steak in fajitas almost raw.  Let me tell you, stringy cuts like skirt steak are absolutely terrible, when served rare.  You've got to fully cook them, to reduce the connective tissue and tenderize the meat.  Ideally grilled over mesquite coals, it's the one area where that wood really shines.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 19, 2022, 01:10:52 PM

I love Tuscan bread, and it's nowhere to be found.

So, Mrs. 847 makes it for me.

Her starter is now 5 years old. Only a couple hundred years to go.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 19, 2022, 03:10:13 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 19, 2022, 12:45:14 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/f8iyRqM.jpg)

FYI you can buy this exact set from Lowes.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on August 19, 2022, 06:00:02 PM

My Mom stopped baking bread when she retired to WY, high elevation,  dry as shit.  It's also hard to find 'good bread' in those climes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 19, 2022, 06:09:06 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 19, 2022, 12:46:25 PM

As for French bread-- to me, it's a misnomer, or perhaps more accurately, a unicorn.  Because whilst living and working in France, I ate no fewer than two dozen different varieties of bread.  All were French, of course.  There is no such thing as one kind of French bread, not that I could ever identify anyway.

Their fried potatoes are to die for :bluegrab:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 19, 2022, 06:17:34 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 19, 2022, 06:09:06 PM

Their fried potatoes are to die for :bluegrab:

Eh, the Belgians do it a lot better.  Same thing for beer. ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2022, 11:50:44 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 19, 2022, 12:47:31 PM

Yup I pick up a new set like this about once per year.  Still can't ever find one when I need it.  It's a very curious thing.

You must have some industrious socks..

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 20, 2022, 08:14:22 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 19, 2022, 06:17:34 PM

Eh, the Belgians do it a lot better.  Same thing for beer. ;)

Being facetious of course I believe they may have been a Yanquis creation.Pretty sure the Belgians make better suds. Didn't they store grains up in barns attic's and then some yeasts float around and thru the vents that completed their recipre or sumsuch?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2022, 08:20:17 AM

The thing about pomme frites for me is they taste like potatoes.  The fries here taste like salt and grease.  That is a thing they do better than us.

My wife tends to prefer CA wines and I lean to French or Italian wines, broadly speaking.

I'd like to try a steak in Argentina sometime, I hear they do it right.

I still remember a lunch in Sorrento, I had spaghetti, it was marvelous, I kept thinking "Why is this so good?".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 20, 2022, 08:44:29 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 20, 2022, 08:14:22 AM

Being facetious of course I believe they may have been a Yanquis creation.Pretty sure the Belgians make better suds. Didn't they store grains up in barns attic's and then some yeasts float around and thru the vents that completed their recipre or sumsuch?

Sorta like that.  Belgians brew some of their beers using an open fermentation technique, so the wild yeasts that are floating in the air, make it into the open primary fermenter, and become responsible for the flavors in the beer.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 20, 2022, 08:45:54 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 20, 2022, 08:20:17 AM

The thing about pomme frites for me is they taste like potatoes.  The fries here taste like salt and grease.  That is a thing they do better than us.

My wife tends to prefer CA wines and I lean to French or Italian wines, broadly speaking.

I'd like to try a steak in Argentina sometime, I hear they do it right.

I still remember a lunch in Sorrento, I had spaghetti, it was marvelous, I kept thinking "Why is this so good?".

The Ligurian fisherman's stew I had in Riomagiorre, Cinque Terre, might be the single best meal I've ever eaten in my entire life.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 20, 2022, 08:59:51 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 20, 2022, 08:20:17 AM

The thing about pomme frites for me is they taste like potatoes.  The fries here taste like salt and grease.  That is a thing they do better than us.

My wife tends to prefer CA wines and I lean to French or Italian wines, broadly speaking.

I'd like to try a steak in Argentina sometime, I hear they do it right.

I still remember a lunch in Sorrento, I had spaghetti, it was marvelous, I kept thinking "Why is this so good?".

Simple techniques, fresh ingredients. It's an Italian thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2022, 02:57:43 PM

If you find yourself in Cincy sometime, this place is EXCELLENT.

Dining Review: Chef Jean-Robert de Cavel's Le Bar a Boeuf Has Dishes Reminiscent of Downtown Cincinnati’s Table and the Iconic Maisonette, in Cincinnati Restaurants Near Me | Cincinnati CityBeat (https://www.citybeat.com/food-drink/dining-review-chef-jeanrobert-de-cavels-le-bar-a-boeuf-has-dishes-reminiscent-of-downtown-cincinnatis-table-and-the-iconic-maisonette-in-cincinnati-restaurants-near-me-12265510)

I'm pretty hard on restaurants, but this place is both fairly modestly priced and really really good, but they don't serve Q or grits.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 20, 2022, 04:39:14 PM

No Q or grits?

I'm out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2022, 11:21:58 PM

Watching 93 Wisconsin vs MSU on BTN......
Theyre playing in a japanese baseball park?  Why??

MSU's green is light, like a true green or kelly green.

MSU players are kind of assholey.  Late hits, pushing, etc. 

Wisconsin is playing for a RB birth......I see plenty of Fletcher, but Moss is having a big game, too.

SUPER weird a late-season conference game is being played overseas

The goal line stripes are like 10-12 inches wide.  Weird.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 21, 2022, 08:07:02 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2022, 11:21:58 PM

Watching 93 Wisconsin vs MSU on BTN......
Theyre playing in a japanese baseball park?  Why??

MSU's green is light, like a true green or kelly green.

MSU players are kind of assholey.  Late hits, pushing, etc. 

Wisconsin is playing for a RB birth......I see plenty of Fletcher, but Moss is having a big game, too.

SUPER weird a late-season conference game is being played overseas

The goal line stripes are like 10-12 inches wide.  Weird.

UW gave up a home game to play in Japan. It needed the money badly at that time.


(https://i.imgur.com/ldcecxK.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 21, 2022, 09:32:33 AM

And I thought it was bad when Northwestern played their home games vs OSU in Cleveland. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 21, 2022, 12:28:49 PM

Watching the Weird Science movie. Imagine how badly it would be received if a pair of 15 year old girls were seen having sex etc with a 30 year old man. 

Talk about a double standard. 

PS…Kelly Lebrock was smoking hot in the day. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 21, 2022, 12:29:11 PM

hard to imagine making more money on a game in Japan than at home

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2022, 12:51:17 PM

The economics professors ran the numbers and they worked out. 
Exchange rates x cheese + (sushi/beefy linemen) - anime * a good pair of RBs = $$$

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 21, 2022, 03:55:08 PM

good for the Japanese economy

not so much for MAdison

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2022, 08:19:56 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR3SCM3IxjOQZqtm0QUlkH5BEnEeA8SV48dX6gCi5NIZ9OvfxKkd2AUHKk0&v=9Ap_y_jlvR4&feature=youtu.be

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 21, 2022, 10:18:30 PM

Quote from: Gigem on August 21, 2022, 12:28:49 PM

Watching the Weird Science movie. Imagine how badly it would be received if a pair of 15 year old girls were seen having sex etc with a 30 year old man.

Talk about a double standard.

PS…Kelly Lebrock was smoking hot in the day.

There are a lot of cringey movies from the 80s.  Sixteen Candles has a whole date rape thing.  Really uncomfortable.

And yes, she was!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2022, 11:11:33 AM

On a lark, I e subscribed to the local paper, it was a buck a week or something to start.  So, it comes, it's all colorful and glossy on the screen, but full of junk of no interest to me.  Well, shoot.  I go on line to cancel, no way, you have to call.

I call and get the usual menu and finally peck my way to a cancel option.  I sit on Musak for 4 minutes and some lady answers and asks for my information, OK, and asks why I want to cancel, OK, and then says she has to transfer me.  I get a bit annoyed.  She transfers me, 4 more minutes of Musak, finally get another person, have to give my same personal info again, answer same question.  FINALLY get it cancelled.  I hope.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 23, 2022, 11:38:01 AM

https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/08/the-sls-rocket-is-the-worst-thing-to-happen-to-nasa-but-maybe-also-the-best/

Interesting summation if you had any passing interest in the space program and where it's really headed.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2022, 12:00:32 PM

I'm not seeing the "best thing" aspect right now ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2022, 12:07:09 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 23, 2022, 11:11:33 AM

On a lark, I e subscribed to the local paper, it was a buck a week or something to start.  So, it comes, it's all colorful and glossy on the screen, but full of junk of no interest to me.  Well, shoot.  I go on line to cancel, no way, you have to call.

I call and get the usual menu and finally peck my way to a cancel option.  I sit on Musak for 4 minutes and some lady answers and asks for my information, OK, and asks why I want to cancel, OK, and then says she has to transfer me.  I get a bit annoyed.  She transfers me, 4 more minutes of Musak, finally get another person, have to give my same personal info again, answer same question.  FINALLY get it cancelled.  I hope.

all of this because of a Lark

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2022, 12:15:25 PM

This is another annoyance of mine, locally:

Midtown skyscraper proposal rises from dead, lands $40M in financing | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/no2-opus-place-midtown-skyscraper-project-development-lands-40m-financing)

This is my day to be annoyed I think.  This is super prime real estate that is just an ugly hole.  I have no idea why anyone would extend them financing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2022, 12:17:53 PM

because someone's uncle is a politician?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2022, 12:21:06 PM

I don't understand any of it, they buy property for $22 million, build a million dollar plus sales center, and then sit, for over four years.  The going costs must be killing someone.  Sell it already.  Property all around that area gets sold for development often.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 23, 2022, 12:35:23 PM

How close is your place to that Midtown murder that just happened?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2022, 12:51:29 PM

About a mile

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 23, 2022, 01:03:35 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 23, 2022, 12:35:23 PM

How close is your place to that Midtown murder that just happened?

:o,sounds like a PBS show

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 23, 2022, 01:25:30 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 23, 2022, 01:03:35 PM

:o,sounds like a PBS show

on the spot reporter

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2022, 01:31:39 PM

Apparently, some woman resident of that building went off on the HOA board and shot two, killed one, and then killed another person outside.  They were arrested at the airport, which suggests they took MARTA which is nearby that condo building.

We got advised to stay inside and there was a chopper outside for a while over the park.

I went out on the deck and looked around a bit and saw nothing really.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2022, 02:21:53 PM

good times in the big city

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2022, 03:21:00 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/299797697_10225087962164400_7278401985368914486_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p180x540&_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=EreLLGKYbNcAX-tbm-K&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT-Z92o1pDo1WtCL1h61kuy7sbQFYFtAHbO091qzEWDHuw&oe=630A551B)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 23, 2022, 04:03:41 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 23, 2022, 12:00:32 PM

I'm not seeing the "best thing" aspect right now ...

Best in that it's giving $2.x billion to starship, which will make SLS obsolete by the time Artemis III flys in 2026.  SS will have flown by then maybe dozens of times.  Unless it fails, and I seriously don't think it will.  It's complex, but not impossible.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 23, 2022, 04:54:43 PM

Quote from: Gigem on August 23, 2022, 04:03:41 PM

Best in that it's giving $2.x billion to starship, which will make SLS obsolete by the time Artemis III flys in 2026.  SS will have flown by then maybe dozens of times.  Unless it fails, and I seriously don't think it will.  It's complex, but not impossible. 

Did somebody say, Starship???


(https://i.imgur.com/ZMs5GLT.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2022, 07:22:20 PM

this is less than a mile from my daughter's place in Lincoln

(https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/1/lincolns-sunken-gardens-2018-mark-dahmke.jpg)

(https://prod-us-west.imgix.net/E82OGNMFJ3-F6J-2HAM79/2048_5af187b760fdf.jpg?w=440&h=440&fit=crop&crop=faces%2Ctop&q=75&orient=0&s=927010b735bdcb1e715bdd410896ad18)

It doesn't look like that in the winter and it's not Atlanta, but it's nice.

The Sunken Gardens was constructed during the winter of 1930-31 in Lincoln, Nebraska. It is the only garden in Nebraska listed in the National Geographic Guide to Public Gardens 300 Best Gardens to Visit in the United States and Canada.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2022, 07:53:55 PM

Super nice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 23, 2022, 07:58:24 PM

Wait so your daughter lives in Lincoln but you're still stuck in Iowa?

Or wait, she's stuck in Lincoln and you won't let her live the good life in Iowa?

Y'all should all just go move in with your brother.  Apparently he's the only smart one. 

(also those gardens are really beautiful)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 23, 2022, 08:03:44 PM

Biden set to announce student loan forgiveness plan which will cost about $300 Billion

Come on midterms

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2022, 08:05:23 PM

brother doesn't have a basement or a guest house in Colleyville

I did interview for a job in Lincoln a year or so ago, but they decided not to fill the position (probably lack of decent applicants)

Iowa is a good life and alot like Heaven, but the winters aren't perfect

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 23, 2022, 08:52:39 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 23, 2022, 08:03:44 PM

Biden set to announce student loan forgiveness plan which will cost about $300 Billion

Come on midterms

Yeah, let's keep those 20-somethings deep in debt so that they can't contribute to the actual economy!!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2022, 09:09:42 PM

no sense learning responsibility in your 20's

what could go wrong?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 23, 2022, 09:14:33 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 23, 2022, 08:52:39 PM

Yeah, let's keep those 20-somethings deep in debt so that they can't contribute to the actual economy!!!!

well its your and my money thats going to be spent so Im glad you like it

why stop at college loans why not also auto loans so the poor babies can get to work

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2022, 09:19:45 PM

if it's a great idea, why not just eliminate all the debt in the US?

just wipe the slate clean and start from scratch

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 23, 2022, 09:43:17 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 23, 2022, 09:19:45 PM

if it's a great idea, why not just eliminate all the debt in the US?

just wipe the slate clean and start from scratch

Ahh, the biblical approach, good thinking. 

(This is not a policy I endorse, though I am also impressed at the work folks do to muster outrage over it. Sign of our times, I suppose)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 23, 2022, 09:48:22 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 23, 2022, 09:43:17 PM

Ahh, the biblical approach, good thinking.

(This is not a policy I endorse, though I am also impressed at the work folks do to muster outrage over it. Sign of our times, I suppose)

Disagreement isn't always outrage, you know. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2022, 10:05:12 PM

I can assure you, there was no outrage in my post

There is plenty of failure to endorse the policy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on August 23, 2022, 10:32:44 PM

The problem is that it doesn't actually help people who are going to contribute to the economy.  It actually just appeases both bases.  The left is happy because it isn't funded by entitlement programs, while bailing out art history and music theory majors.  The right is happy because trust fund babies who never had to take out a loan don't have to contribute.  It just harms white collar workers with student debt, who wont get relief, and whose rates, if not locked in, while certainly rise.  The actual economic base.  But that's American politics now, appeal to the fringes, get the votes, while destroying the republic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2022, 10:51:00 PM

as long as the rumor is NOT true about lending institutions buying up federal student loans and refinancing them are going to have that debt forgiven

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 23, 2022, 11:00:49 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 23, 2022, 09:43:17 PM

Ahh, the biblical approach, good thinking.

(This is not a policy I endorse, though I am also impressed at the work folks do to muster outrage over it. Sign of our times, I suppose)

This is a guy who financed his college degree 100% working several jobs to do it

I dont think these babies are better then me so why the hell should they get a free ride

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 23, 2022, 11:04:35 PM

Student loans and the subsequent forgiveness isn’t the solution, it’s the problem. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on August 23, 2022, 11:37:59 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 23, 2022, 11:00:49 PM

This is a guy who financed his college degree 100% working several jobs to do it

I dont think these babies are better then me so why the hell should they get a free ride

Well, this mindset doesn't make any sense.  But the argument that treating the result, rather than the cause, just kicks the can down the road, is problematic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 23, 2022, 11:48:33 PM

Quote from: ELA on August 23, 2022, 11:37:59 PM

Well, this mindset doesn't make any sense.  But the argument that treating the result, rather than the cause, just kicks the can down the road, is problematic.

I think I was pretty straight forward in my view just what does not make sense? Both my kids worked hard to get through college and were fortunate to have parents with the ability to help them

My daughter did get a student loan for law school and she paid back every nickel

these babies today are no better then we were

all Biden is doing is spending our money for votes and thats crap

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on August 23, 2022, 11:50:19 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 23, 2022, 11:48:33 PM

I think I was pretty straight forward in my view just what does not make sense? Both my kids worked hard to get through college and were fortunate to have parents with the ability to help them

My daughter did get a student loan for law school and she paid back every nickel

these babies today are no better then we were

all Biden is doing is spending our money for votes and thats crap

I'm actually against this, but the argument that because I had to suffer through it, someone else ought to as well, is very anti-American

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 23, 2022, 11:59:20 PM

Quote from: ELA on August 23, 2022, 11:50:19 PM

I'm actually against this, but the argument that because I had to suffer through it, someone else ought to as well, is very anti-American

It was not a matter of suffering.  It was a matter of being responsible for my actions.  In addition they want to bail these folks out using my money.  I would be willing to bet the American people are against this but wont get the chance to vote on it.

again meeting ones obligations is not a matter of suffering

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 24, 2022, 12:27:36 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 23, 2022, 09:48:22 PM

Disagreement isn't always outrage, you know.

Absolutely, and I would say, Fearless didn’t read as outraged. Apologies if it came across that way. 

But it does seem to get some folks quite worked up. (Not saying you either utee)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 24, 2022, 12:29:36 AM

Quote from: ELA on August 23, 2022, 11:50:19 PM

I'm actually against this, but the argument that because I had to suffer through it, someone else ought to as well, is very anti-American

It's actually very American....and that's the problem.  Most people can't see past their own experiences and if they don't get something nice, then no one else should, either.  Same with getting something good - as long as they get in the door, they have no problem closing it behind them.

I find it one of the rare times an intellectually sad instance coincides with an ethically sad instance.  A double-whammy that people like longhorn will defend to his last breath.

God bless America.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 24, 2022, 12:30:42 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 23, 2022, 09:19:45 PM

if it's a great idea, why not just eliminate all the debt in the US?

just wipe the slate clean and start from scratch

We're going to have to do that with China someday. There's no paying that debt, ever.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 24, 2022, 01:18:22 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 24, 2022, 12:29:36 AM

It's actually very American....and that's the problem.  Most people can't see past their own experiences and if they don't get something nice, then no one else should, either.  Same with getting something good - as long as they get in the door, they have no problem closing it behind them.

I find it one of the rare times an intellectually sad instance coincides with an ethically sad instance.  A double-whammy that people like longhorn will defend to his last breath.

God bless America.

Normally Id come back with a long response but youre just not worth my time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2022, 05:26:49 AM

I don't understand how this is legal if $300 billion is the price tag, I really don't.  Hopefully it gets tied up in court.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on August 24, 2022, 06:58:14 AM

We should all enroll in graduate school and take out $10K in loans.  Attendance and grades are optional.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2022, 07:01:16 AM

Obviously, if loans are forgiven, any student from here on should take out loans, needed or not.

I just don't understand the legality of spending $300 billion without Congressional action.

And if this is a good thing and legal, why only $10 K?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on August 24, 2022, 07:04:50 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 24, 2022, 07:01:16 AM

I just don't understand the legality of spending $300 billion without Congressional action.

Good point.  That's a lot of cash, not some minor item say buried in the budget for the Dept. of Education.  Where are the funds coming from?  A future Congress could refuse to fund. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2022, 08:12:18 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 23, 2022, 09:48:22 PM

Disagreement isn't always outrage, you know.

Correct.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2022, 08:14:31 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 23, 2022, 08:52:39 PM

Yeah, let's keep those 20-somethings deep in debt so that they can't contribute to the actual economy!!!!

If they had a degree in something useful, they would most certainly be contributing to the economy, and they would be paying of the loans they signed up for.

I completely disagree with this buying of votes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2022, 08:15:15 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 24, 2022, 12:30:42 AM

We're going to have to do that with China someday. There's no paying that debt, ever. 

While this could be true, our debt to China is a comparatively small percentage of overall Federal debt.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 24, 2022, 08:30:04 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 24, 2022, 08:15:15 AM

While this could be true, our debt to China is a comparatively small percentage of overall Federal debt.

 We owe more to Japan than China.  And the US itself owns the majority of the debt.


(https://i.imgur.com/OIzaovz.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 24, 2022, 08:35:16 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 23, 2022, 11:00:49 PM

This is a guy who financed his college degree 100% working several jobs to do it

I dont think these babies are better then me so why the hell should they get a free ride

Ok, so this actually taps into something that’s  probably more interesting.

when you financed your college degree, how much did it cost and what year was it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2022, 08:37:42 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 24, 2022, 08:30:04 AM

We owe more to Japan than China.  And the US itself owns the majority of the debt.


(https://i.imgur.com/OIzaovz.png)

So China has taken Hong Kong and next they will take Taiwan.

Then we could take the Caymans and Luxembourg. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2022, 08:38:39 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 24, 2022, 08:35:16 AM

Ok, so this actually taps into something that’s  probably more interesting.

when you financed your college degree, how much did it cost and what year was it?

Why has the cost to tuition risen so much?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2022, 08:51:53 AM

The US Federal debt is around $30 T and 3% of that is owed to China.

My dad paid for my undergrad pretty much, it probably was $2500 a year or so.  I paid for my grad degree using a TA, no debt.  It ran around $5 K a year.

This was not recent ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 24, 2022, 08:54:57 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2022, 08:38:39 AM

Why has the cost to tuition risen so much?

Without being an expert in the subject, it seems a combination of factors. Ever-rising demand, more available loan money, decline in public funding, General expansion of the research world, probably some other things I just don’t know about.

But, this particular train of interest, not quite on point. If there is some good analysis of it, I would love to see it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2022, 08:58:41 AM

Expansion of student activies centers and facilities

Expansion in number of nonteaching employees

Ready available of loans to finance demand.


Over 60% of US HS grads attend college, in Europe, the figure is closer to 35%.  College is widely an expectation.  Folks go because they can, and feel they should, maybe getting a degree in sociology, or no degree at all.  But they go, demand is high.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2022, 09:03:41 AM

Rising demand was a huge part of it. Having to pay professors in useless fields is a huge part of it. Maintaining/preserving very old buildings and constructing far too many new ones is a huge part of it. 

Anyway, one does not need a BA to get a good job.

Anecdote:

Both of my sons are in the six figures now, and then some.

Neither has a B_ degree and both have 825+ credit scores with no debt other than housing. 

Me:

Very proud.

Them:

Why should I have to pay for a bunch of losers with shit degrees? Where is my handout for doing things right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 24, 2022, 09:10:20 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 23, 2022, 09:48:22 PM

Disagreement isn't always outrage, you know.

Update: Sure seems like some outrage is getting mixed in.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2022, 09:14:09 AM

I get outraged often when others appear to be outraged.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 24, 2022, 09:16:16 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 24, 2022, 09:14:09 AM

I get outraged often when others appear to be outraged.

OUTRAGIOUS! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2022, 09:47:58 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 24, 2022, 09:10:20 AM

Update: Sure seems like some outrage is getting mixed in. 

Fact-based discussion is not outrage, my friend.

I'm not outraged at all by this crap. Let's start with utter disappointment with a BS policy.

Like...

Dude got this home loan and dude just don't feel like making an effort to pay it. Can we just scrap this thing?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2022, 10:02:02 AM

Back to tuition:

(https://i.imgur.com/ky9ARhd.png)

That is huge, and CDawg is correct on his assertion that the availability of loans has greatly influenced this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2022, 10:02:29 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/AzrGMxS.png)

A good start, I guess.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 24, 2022, 10:06:49 AM

I definitely feel like higher education should be way more affordable. Not sure how I feel about canceling $10k in student loans. Let's be honest here anyway, most people that went to college are in debt WAY more than $10k. 

Feel like the really important fields- STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, & Mathematics) should be free for those that make the cut. I say invest in the brightest and best. Probably medical and finance as well. You know...things that actually produce income earners that can pay into the system, make $$$, and spend the money they make into the economy at large. Invest in those people. All day long. 

Any asshole dope woke loser that wants to get some bullshit degree in trans dance theater or whatever can pay for it themselves.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 24, 2022, 10:08:18 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2022, 10:02:02 AM

Back to tuition:

(https://i.imgur.com/ky9ARhd.png)

That is huge, and CDawg is correct on his assertion that the availability of loans has greatly influenced this.

Gov't backing the loans just means so much garbage and fat gets pumped into the system and these universities jack up rates and pay administration ridiculous salaries. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 24, 2022, 10:09:13 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2022, 09:47:58 AM

Fact-based discussion is not outrage, my friend.

I'm not outraged at all by this crap. Let's start with utter disappointment with a BS policy.

Like...

Dude got this home loan and dude just don't feel like making an effort to pay it. Can we just scrap this thing?

“Where’s my handout like those losers?” feels like outrage.

Utter disappointment about BS sounds like outrage. If you’d like, I can reassess and change the word outrage to angst and irritation.

(The house thing feels like a pretty tenuous comparison that’s not going to go anywhere other than saying, people should pay their debts back. To carry the metaphor out, the US should repossess a bunch of sociology degrees and sell them at auction, which is honestly amusing)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 24, 2022, 10:14:42 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2022, 10:02:29 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/AzrGMxS.png)

A good start, I guess.

Very good.

A lot of old social norms need to fall: the need for a college degree, the emphasis from employers on those degrees, the deemphasis on skill work, the insistence on leaving home at 18, and also, honestly, the stories told to folks under 18 about paying one’s way through college.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2022, 10:16:27 AM

Employers are huge on apprenticeships now. It's a new wave, and a good one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 24, 2022, 10:18:06 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2022, 08:37:42 AM

So China has taken Hong Kong and next they will take Taiwan.

China can't really take Taiwan, as virtually the entire world has agreed since 1949 that Taiwan = China. Pretty much like 99% of the 200+ countries in the world officially recognize that Taiwan is part of China- including the United States.

Taiwan is less than 100 miles from the coast of mainland China and was the staging ground for the Japanese to invade and destroy China multiple times. So yeah, they aren't letting Taiwan go without a major fight. As much as I hate China, this one ain't our battle or fight. Not our problem. 

Hong Kong was also a part of China for like ever- until the most imperialistic murdering f*cks in history- the British- took it by force- over the sale of drugs. Again, as much as I hate China, that one ain't our battle or fight either. Not our problem. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2022, 10:25:57 AM

There are a lot of people who are pretty upset about this cancellation, and it's not all people like some of us.

Anyone think minorities living in poverty are on board with bailing out Susie and her parents, because she/they chose a degree in humanities? Susie blissfully giggled her way through college and she's sad now. But her parents are so proud that she has that degree, and the 2.2 GPA and all that.

These are the kinds of people this is helping the most - those making enough money to pay. It's not helping people who really help. This is a vote grab, period.

Check this out:

Citing a recent analysis from a group of economists and data scientists at the University of Pennsylvania, known formally as the Penn Wharton Budget Model, CBS News’ Aimee Picchi noted the plan would cost around $300 billion in the first year. The cost is likely to balloon if stretched out across a longer period of time. 

"The benefit of erasing billions in college loans would mostly go toward Americans higher up the income ladder, the analysis also found. More than two-thirds of the debt forgiveness would help people in the top 60% of the income distribution — or those who earn $82,400 or more per year," Picchi wrote. 

Forgiving $10,000 in student debt could cost the U.S. $300 billion - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/student-loan-forgiveness-10000-cost/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2022, 10:27:11 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 24, 2022, 10:18:06 AM

China can't really take Taiwan, as virtually the entire world has agreed since 1949 that Taiwan = China. Pretty much like 99% of the 200+ countries in the world officially recognize that Taiwan is part of China- including the United States.

Taiwan is less than 100 miles from the coast of mainland China and was the staging ground for the Japanese to invade and destroy China multiple times. So yeah, they aren't letting Taiwan go without a major fight. As much as I hate China, this one ain't our battle or fight. Not our problem.

Hong Kong was also a part of China for like ever- until the most imperialistic murdering f*cks in history- the British- took it by force- over the sale of drugs. Again, as much as I hate China, that one ain't our battle or fight either. Not our problem.

Correct.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 24, 2022, 10:38:00 AM

I have a niece that just graduated from A&M.  Not sure if she has student loans, but I suspect she has some.  Her degree was in psychology.  She graduated cum laude (I think magna FWIW).  She can't find a job.  She is working at our family business doing secretarial work.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 24, 2022, 10:38:45 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2022, 10:25:57 AM

There are a lot of people who are pretty upset about this cancellation, and it's not all people like some of us.

This is almost assuredly true, though in America, most anything the government does is going to leave a lot of folks upset. (We excel at finding means to be upset)

It's not good policy. You're helping people who are doing a degree of well (took on debt, got a degree to be a mid-grade professional). You're helping poor people with enough wherewithal to get out of their situation as a child, but not enough good guidance to finish the deal and become rich. The policy benefits people with degrees living in less-wealthy areas (non-urban to rural). The benefits are uneven, and they reward the mid-level professional class, which is almost assuredly more people who started there than people who worked their way there. 

The irony is it's not even really "vote buying." It's making some people's lives easier, and more just vote maintenance for show, and of course delivering on a campaign promise. A good chunk of the people getting this were gonna vote for the current admin anyway. And $10,000 isn't so much isn't going to swing that many folks on the other side of things. It's really just sating pretty upset people, at the expense of leaving others more upset, though for many of them, it's just a matter of degree in being upset. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 24, 2022, 10:40:52 AM

Quote from: Gigem on August 24, 2022, 10:38:00 AM

I have a niece that just graduated from A&M.  Not sure if she has student loans, but I suspect she has some.  Her degree was in psychology.  She graduated cum laude (I think magna FWIW).  She can't find a job.  She is working at our family business doing secretarial work. 

Two questions because I'm nosy
1. Living at home?
2. Good secretarial work? (That can be, maybe not lucrative, but can fund a professional life)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2022, 10:42:09 AM

Secretary?


It's Administrative Professional, dammit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 24, 2022, 10:43:53 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 24, 2022, 10:40:52 AM

Two questions because I'm nosy
1. Living at home?
2. Good secretarial work? (That can be, maybe not lucrative, but can fund a professional life)

#1  She just moved back home.
#2  Our family business is not a well run organization, so I have no idea to the answer.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2022, 12:20:12 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 24, 2022, 10:09:13 AM

“Where’s my handout like those losers?” feels like outrage.

Utter disappointment about BS sounds like outrage. If you’d like, I can reassess and change the word outrage to angst and irritation.

out·rage

noun
an extremely strong reaction of anger, shock, or indignation.

Similar: indignation, fury, anger, rage

verb
arouse fierce anger, shock, or indignation in (someone).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2022, 12:26:23 PM

I could actually go along with student loan forgiveness if done in a thoughtful manner that might help a bad situation

such as.......... there seems to be a problem with a teacher shortage in our grade schools and high schools.
how about, if you are employed as a teacher or immediately take the job and keep it for at least a year, $10K of your student loan will be forgiven

I haven't read up on how this is being done.  Perhaps it is very well thought out and I simply need to educate myself, because the media isn't going to help in that regard.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2022, 12:29:38 PM

I wonder where the money comes from...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2022, 12:32:00 PM

the Cayman Islands???

I have a sneaky feeling some politicians are getting rich on interest paid to them on federal debt

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 24, 2022, 12:34:34 PM

how bout banning student loans except for certain majors likely to give the student the ability to pay it back

if not that then just ban it all together

its one thing to bail folks out but its even worse if the government allows it to happen over and over

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 24, 2022, 12:35:26 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 24, 2022, 12:26:23 PM

I could actually go along with student loan forgiveness if done in a thoughtful manner that might help a bad situation

such as.......... there seems to be a problem with a teacher shortage in our grade schools and high schools.
how about, if you are employed as a teacher or immediately take the job and keep it for at least a year, $10K of your student loan will be forgiven

I haven't read up on how this is being done.  Perhaps it is very well thought out and I simply need to educate myself, because the media isn't going to help in that regard.

Possible option in this vein, have a way to divert funds with a multiplier.

So if I take certain in-demand jobs, I can convert up to $4,000 a year into debt relief with a 3.5x multipliers. I let $1000 wipe away $3000 in debt.

Probably downsides I’ve not yet considered, but it’s an incentive structure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 24, 2022, 12:36:43 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 24, 2022, 12:35:26 PM

Possible option in this vein, have a way to divert funds with a multiplier.

So if I take certain in-demand jobs, I can convert up to $4,000 a year into debt relief with a 3.5x multipliers. I let $1000 wipe away $3000 in debt.

Probably downsides I’ve not yet considered, but it’s an incentive structure.

I like that a lot better then just handing them a free ride

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 24, 2022, 12:41:45 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 24, 2022, 12:34:34 PM

how bout banning student loans except for certain majors likely to give the student the ability to pay it back

if not that then just ban it all together

its one thing to bail folks out but its even worse if the government allows it to happen over and over

Hmmm. I don’t love some of the mechanics elements, but I love where it’s coming from.

the fact is, borrowing a bit was at one point feasible and logical as a way to help finance and education. And things have shifted to the point where it’s not really a good approach. I can see some regulation, though for the most part, we need to message strongly that this is a bad idea.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2022, 12:44:44 PM

colleges have financial advisors for students

this could easily be put in place as to spending more than "X" amount is not a good idear for "Z" degree

but, colleges like to print degrees as students print money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2022, 12:48:32 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/kd2XqVF.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on August 24, 2022, 12:50:13 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 24, 2022, 12:44:44 PM

colleges have financial advisors for students

this could easily be put in place as to spending more than "X" amount is not a good idear for "Z" degree

but, colleges like to print degrees as students print money

No financial advisor is going to advise you not to give their employer money.  Hell, even a good chunk of academic advisors aren't trying to get you through as soon as possible.  All they are trying to do is help you figure out who will give you money to give to them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 24, 2022, 12:50:18 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 24, 2022, 12:44:44 PM

colleges have financial advisors for students

this could easily be put in place as to spending more than "X" amount is not a good idear for "Z" degree

but, colleges like to print degrees as students print money

You mean departments of financial aid?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2022, 12:56:57 PM

Ed Zachery

They're all in it together!

Students are doomed

and the biggest winner in this loan forgiveness scheme is probably those SOBs printing degrees for money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on August 24, 2022, 01:11:13 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 24, 2022, 12:26:23 PM

I could actually go along with student loan forgiveness if done in a thoughtful manner that might help a bad situation

such as.......... there seems to be a problem with a teacher shortage in our grade schools and high schools.
how about, if you are employed as a teacher or immediately take the job and keep it for at least a year, $10K of your student loan will be forgiven

I haven't read up on how this is being done.  Perhaps it is very well thought out and I simply need to educate myself, because the media isn't going to help in that regard.

That's what the PSLF program is for. 10 years of work in either the public sector or at nonprofits, and so long as you've made your payments whatever is left over is written off at the end of that. It's how my wife is paying off her masters, and it's how lawyers can afford to work for the government.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2022, 01:14:09 PM

I'm qualified to teach college, but not high school or elementary.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2022, 01:17:12 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on August 24, 2022, 01:11:13 PM

That's what the PSLF program is for. 10 years of work in either the public sector or at nonprofits, and so long as you've made your payments whatever is left over is written off at the end of that. It's how my wife is paying off her masters, and it's how lawyers can afford to work for the government.

perhaps student loans have changed - probably
but mine were set on the 10 year payback after you graduated
so, yes additional loans for your masters and doctorate might be good or if you could somehow extend the original loans w/o penalty

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 24, 2022, 01:28:49 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 24, 2022, 01:14:09 PM

I'm qualified to teach college, but not high school or elementary.

In some ways, that seems silly, but in other ways, not. 

What would you teach in elementary school?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 24, 2022, 01:36:37 PM

I've always thought it would be fun to teach something like engineering physics.  It just doesn't pay enough.

When my i s c & a aggie wife was preparing to go to PT school, she lacked a couple of prerequisites and had to take them at the local CC.  I tutored her through both Chemistry and Physics, and not only did she do extremely well, but she really liked both subjects, and especially physics.  She thinks I'm a natural teacher.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 24, 2022, 01:37:10 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on August 24, 2022, 01:11:13 PM

That's what the PSLF program is for. 10 years of work in either the public sector or at nonprofits, and so long as you've made your payments whatever is left over is written off at the end of that. It's how my wife is paying off her masters, and it's how lawyers can afford to work for the government.

I honestly think that 10-year setup is a net negative. Need to cut down on long-term timelines, especially starting at 18 and going 13-14 years minimum. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2022, 01:47:45 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 24, 2022, 01:36:37 PM

I've always thought it would be fun to teach something like engineering physics.  It just doesn't pay enough.

When my i s c & a aggie wife was preparing to go to PT school, she lacked a couple of prerequisites and had to take them at the local CC.  I tutored her through both Chemistry and Physics, and not only did she do extremely well, but she really liked both subjects, and especially physics.  She thinks I'm a natural teacher.

I'm sure she does!  ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on August 24, 2022, 02:12:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 24, 2022, 01:14:09 PM

I'm qualified to teach college, but not high school or elementary.

I mean SEC football players are in college, but most couldn't pass high school or elementary, so that checks out  :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 24, 2022, 02:45:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 24, 2022, 01:14:09 PM

I'm qualified to teach college, but not high school or elementary.

Well you couldn't come off the bench in middle relief for a JR High/Sr High

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on August 24, 2022, 02:54:43 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 24, 2022, 02:45:59 PM

Well you couldn't come off the bench in middle relief for a JR High/Sr High

Much less throw a football over them mountains. Or win state had coach put you in.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on August 24, 2022, 05:40:48 PM

If you want to have a discussion on the funding of public higher education, let's start with the wholesale defunding thereof. 

https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-budget-and-tax/state-higher-education-funding-cuts-have-pushed-costs-to-students

This study came AFTER my tuition/fees increased by 50% during my time in undergrad (fall 02-spring 07).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2022, 05:41:52 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on August 24, 2022, 01:11:13 PM

That's what the PSLF program is for. 10 years of work in either the public sector or at nonprofits, and so long as you've made your payments whatever is left over is written off at the end of that. It's how my wife is paying off her masters, and it's how lawyers can afford to work for the government.

Are you all paid up? You've been out what, 15 years now? More even? I lose track.

I had no debt coming out. But I want my $10K now. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2022, 05:43:47 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on August 24, 2022, 05:40:48 PM

If you want to have a discussion on the funding of public higher education, let's start with the wholesale defunding thereof.

https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-budget-and-tax/state-higher-education-funding-cuts-have-pushed-costs-to-students

This study came AFTER my tuition/fees increased by 50% during my time in undergrad (fall 02-spring 07).

I'm for that defunding because so many people do not use the schools, yet they were funding them. Use it, pay for it - like a Toll Road.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2022, 07:05:29 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/rB6I6cR.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 24, 2022, 08:23:35 PM

If anybody on here has experience with student loans I’d like to hear about it. 

I see news stories of people having 6 figures of debt and jobs that only pay like $50-60k per year or less. 

My natural response is that they would’ve been better off with no college and no college debt. 

I think nobody wants to hear this but some of the people crying about student loans gambled. They bet on themself, and lost. They just don’t have whatever it takes to be successful enough to recoup the costs and it’s too late to know it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2022, 08:46:46 PM

I dropped out of UNL in 84 because I wasn't willing to take on student loans

interest rates and the job market were not good back then

the engineering college wasn't a breeze like high school

things worked out swell for me

but, I was willing to work hard and I got a few breaks

started in a meat packing plant boning loins

most guys my age at the time weren't willing to do that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 24, 2022, 09:05:25 PM

The anecdotal evidence/mental masturbation I see on this topic here is sadly predictable.  
"I did it so they can do it, too" is dumbass, narrow thinking and you're too ______ to be embarrassed to share it.  You can fill in the blank yourself....the word isn't "stupid," but it's something bad.

Every doctor that heals or operates on you took on absurd debt to do so.  And no, not everyone who set out to be that helpful, knowledgeable person fulfilled that goal.  
An opportunity to help those who didnt make it presents itself and none of you seem pleased by that.

What the fuck is wrong with you?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2022, 09:10:24 PM

every doctor?

bull

that opportunity has been available  for over 100 years and will be available for the next 100 years

if it's such a wonderful no brainer, I assume this will continue going forward and be enhanced

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 24, 2022, 10:15:18 PM

Quote from: Gigem on August 24, 2022, 08:23:35 PM

I think nobody wants to hear this but some of the people crying about student loans gambled. They bet on themself, and lost. They just don’t have whatever it takes to be successful enough to recoup the costs and it’s too late to know it.

I think this is an interesting thought, but it doesn't go far enough. All college students are gambles. They're gambles whether they take out loans or not. And in truth, the pricing has shifted to the point where going to college is probably overall a net positive (the average student gets more than they spend), but a gamble you wouldn't be THAT happy to make. 

We'll start with betting on yourself. Even though it realistically is that, it's never presented that way. We as a culture spent a long time telling 18-year-olds that borrowing money to this end was a wise and logical move. Shoot, I know people whose parents could pay for school, but remembering how they had done it themselves (when the economics allowed for that), actually said "You do this on your own, take out loans if you have to."

Then you think about the different types of gambles and the issues with making the academy so central. I knew more than a few kids who came in ready to rock as business majors, engineers and doctors (with strong HS backgrounds). But UW is not in the business of making many business majors, engineers and doctors. It makes very good ones, but its goal is to drive a lot of kids who want that away from doing that. And it usually doesn't have much time for guidance once it does. Good guidance sends you to a well-paying adjacent field. OK guidance to marketing or something. Not good guidance to being a math major. Very bad to psych. The blind spot has rarely been well addressed en masse.  

Then you have kids good enough to get into college, either not well-prepped enough academically or just not ready socially. Some wash out with five figures of debt. I'm sure some in the category above might have done the same, but down $20,000 and with no direction, some will add to it because they can still exist in the structure of college and work toward something (something they mistakenly think is long-term stability). 

And of course, if you were coming from less, you were caught in an unfortunate vice. The net expected value of college was shrinking, but the net expected value of no college was shrinking faster. And as a society, we did our damndest to make two-year school seem unappetizing (running dang commercials during daytime soaps, alongside ads for shop at home trash). So the road was painted, and loans were just cast as part of the process. 

And then you have the academy. You go to a place surrounded by people who usually don't know what your options are. They don't know how a polisci degree becomes a six-figure job (it can, though it isn't totally connected to the major). They know how to research and go to more school. And there isn't enough god damn guidance to prevent people from finding something they like and then trying to set them on that path (some of the grad school choices, what the hell?). You look at how law and business school are waved around like salves for economic woes, oy. 

This isn't to say a lot of people didn't make mistakes. They did. And they had faith put in them when they were 18-year-olds, which is to say, when they were direly stupid about the world. And we had a lot of elder perspective that imagined college to be something that could be mostly paid for with a low-end part-time job when it no longer was. We built ourselves an inordinately stupid mousetrap. Covering some of that debt isn't likely to fix the problem, but we damn sure need to come to our senses about the root causes. 

(That was long, and I'm sure missed some perspective, but that was just burbling in my mind. Also, fun fact. In 1995, it would take you less than 700 hours of minimum-wage work to pay for a year at UW-in state. A decade later, more than 2,200 hours)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 24, 2022, 10:16:01 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 24, 2022, 09:10:24 PM

every doctor?

bull

that opportunity has been available  for over 100 years and will be available for the next 100 years

if it's such a wonderful no brainer, I assume this will continue going forward and be enhanced

You're right

Every doctor minus the ones that can afford $60K/yr for 6 years.  
Silly me.  I stand corrected.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 24, 2022, 10:24:54 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 24, 2022, 10:15:18 PM

(That was long, and I'm sure missed some perspective, but that was just burbling in my mind. Also, fun fact. In 1995, it would take you less than 700 hours of minimum-wage work to pay for a year at UW-in state. A decade later, more than 2,200 hours)

This is important.
Many people still behave as if the economics of college and a decent job are the same as they were back in the 1970s.  
It's so radically worse now, that it's hard to put into perspective.

A decent job isn't nearly enough to provide for a family now.
Paying for good ole State U can't be done with your summer job. 

There's a big disconnect there.  
Oh, you took on loans as an investment in your future and things didn't work out?  How dare you get a handout!!!  Outrage!!!  

Have any of you who have a problem with the student loan debt cancellation considered how many of those people got their degree, met their goal, and wound up making dogshit in salary?  Enough to live, not enough to pay that additional debt, and did nothing wrong?

Doubtful.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2022, 10:30:43 PM

you know, doctor's kids become doctors

lawyer's kids become doctors

rich folk's kids become doctors

this doesn't account for most of the doctors, but there are plenty of kids in med school that have families or other sources of money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2022, 10:33:12 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 24, 2022, 10:15:18 PM

Covering some of that debt isn't likely to fix the problem, but we damn sure need to come to our senses about the root causes.

this
but as politicians mostly do, throw money at a problem w/o addressing the root causes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 24, 2022, 11:19:46 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 24, 2022, 10:30:43 PM

you know, doctor's kids become doctors

lawyer's kids become doctors

rich folk's kids become doctors

this doesn't account for most of the doctors, but there are plenty of kids in med school that have families or other sources of money

Agreed.
Let's focus on the tiny minority this doesn't affect.  
Great idea!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 24, 2022, 11:22:00 PM

Quote from: Gigem on August 24, 2022, 08:23:35 PM

If anybody on here has experience with student loans I’d like to hear about it.

I see news stories of people having 6 figures of debt and jobs that only pay like $50-60k per year or less.

My natural response is that they would’ve been better off with no college and no college debt.

I think nobody wants to hear this but some of the people crying about student loans gambled. They bet on themself, and lost. They just don’t have whatever it takes to be successful enough to recoup the costs and it’s too late to know it.

Its very possible they chose a major that just will not provide the income needed

My daughter ran up close to $100,000 to go to law school but was able to pay that off because of a good income

Its much harder to do with a degree in philosophy for example

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on August 24, 2022, 11:31:46 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 24, 2022, 10:33:12 PM

this
but as politicians mostly do, throw money at a problem w/o addressing the root causes

Actually, proper funding of public higher ed would go a long way towards dealing with the root concerns. See the linked study at the top of page 1344.

The U of Minnesota is a glaring exception in that state appropriations are slightly more in the last annual report than they were in the mid 90s, in real dollars. I don't know how much more, but in the morning I'll find out.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: highVOLtage on August 25, 2022, 12:03:31 AM

Meh, what's another $2,100 on top of the $5,200 annual inflation increase that middle class Americans are struggling to pay.

https://mobile.twitter.com/andrew_lautz/status/1562159266244485120

https://twitter.com/markets/status/1508942359073107980

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2022, 06:38:50 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 24, 2022, 09:05:25 PM

The anecdotal evidence/mental masturbation I see on this topic here is sadly predictable. 
"I did it so they can do it, too" is dumbass, narrow thinking and you're too ______ to be embarrassed to share it.  You can fill in the blank yourself....the word isn't "stupid," but it's something bad.

Every doctor that heals or operates on you took on absurd debt to do so.  And no, not everyone who set out to be that helpful, knowledgeable person fulfilled that goal. 
An opportunity to help those who didnt make it presents itself and none of you seem pleased by that.

What the fuck is wrong with you? 

Excuse me, but is this nonsense supposed to be about?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 25, 2022, 08:05:14 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 24, 2022, 11:22:00 PM

Its very possible they chose a major that just will not provide the income needed

My daughter ran up close to $100,000 to go to law school but was able to pay that off because of a good income

Its much harder to do with a degree in philosophy for example

If memory serves, law school also helped exaserbate all this.

There was a stretch where we were producing a ton of lawyers in a pretty tight job market. Throw in the fact that some lawyers in important social roles aren’t paid THAT well, and it became a key source of debt.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2022, 08:32:16 AM

When I got out of school, my starting pay was $30K/year - which included about 10 years of experience in the field.

That was the going rate.

Now we are paying $75-80K out of school.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 25, 2022, 08:36:24 AM

Yeah I was living large at $35K/year right out of school in 1994.

The internet tells me the average starting salary for an entry level electrical engineer in Austin is now $69K/year in 2022.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2022, 09:16:39 AM

Honestly, I left that company shortly after. I had been there 6 years in all, and felt unappreciated. I got no raise when I graduated - was told that my degree didn't add any more value to the company. Probably true, but still a nut kick.

Anyway, within 6 months I was at $48K + 1.5XOT and I never looked back.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2022, 09:27:04 AM

I started at $26.9 K, which after earning about $5K for four years sounded like nirvana.  Nirvana actually sounds quite different.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2022, 09:30:35 AM

LMAO

OK, not LMAO at the crimes, but at one of the thief's statements. This guy stole two cars from the same dealership, on separate occasions, about a week apart. A Camaro and then a Corvette.

*********

While Roeder was located in Venice, his arrest report indicates that his legal address is in Punta Gorda.

Roeder spoke to deputies after being read his Miranda rights, according to the report. When shown a picture from the surveillance footage, he allegedly told deputies: “That guy looks familiar.”

As he continued to speak to the deputies, Roeder mentioned that he was “bored” on both nights when burglaries were reported and had taken his bicycle on a ride to look for “trash.”


Theft suspect looking at surveillance photo of himself: 'That guy looks familiar' | News | yoursun.com (https://www.yoursun.com/puntagorda/news/theft-suspect-looking-at-surveillance-photo-of-himself-that-guy-looks-familiar/article_901a6f62-1e6c-11ed-ab9a-7bad08017460.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 25, 2022, 09:31:46 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2022, 09:16:39 AM

Honestly, I left that company shortly after. I had been there 6 years in all, and felt unappreciated. I got no raise when I graduated - was told that my degree didn't add any more value to the company. Probably true, but still a nut kick.

Anyway, within 6 months I was at $48K + 1.5XOT and I never looked back.

In my job we got paid overtime and also got a 15% travel premium when we were on the road.  I spent about 80% of my time on the road and I worked a ton of overtime while I was out, so my first couple year paychecks were about $60K.  I squandered most of that money on boats, women, and beer.  I'm okay with that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2022, 09:41:02 AM

I spent about half my salary on wild women, good booze, and fast cars.

The other half I wasted.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 25, 2022, 09:44:05 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 24, 2022, 10:15:18 PM

I think this is an interesting thought, but it doesn't go far enough. All college students are gambles. They're gambles whether they take out loans or not. And in truth, the pricing has shifted to the point where going to college is probably overall a net positive (the average student gets more than they spend), but a gamble you wouldn't be THAT happy to make.

We'll start with betting on yourself. Even though it realistically is that, it's never presented that way. We as a culture spent a long time telling 18-year-olds that borrowing money to this end was a wise and logical move. Shoot, I know people whose parents could pay for school, but remembering how they had done it themselves (when the economics allowed for that), actually said "You do this on your own, take out loans if you have to."

Then you think about the different types of gambles and the issues with making the academy so central. I knew more than a few kids who came in ready to rock as business majors, engineers and doctors (with strong HS backgrounds). But UW is not in the business of making many business majors, engineers and doctors. It makes very good ones, but its goal is to drive a lot of kids who want that away from doing that. And it usually doesn't have much time for guidance once it does. Good guidance sends you to a well-paying adjacent field. OK guidance to marketing or something. Not good guidance to being a math major. Very bad to psych. The blind spot has rarely been well addressed en masse. 

Then you have kids good enough to get into college, either not well-prepped enough academically or just not ready socially. Some wash out with five figures of debt. I'm sure some in the category above might have done the same, but down $20,000 and with no direction, some will add to it because they can still exist in the structure of college and work toward something (something they mistakenly think is long-term stability).

And of course, if you were coming from less, you were caught in an unfortunate vice. The net expected value of college was shrinking, but the net expected value of no college was shrinking faster. And as a society, we did our damndest to make two-year school seem unappetizing (running dang commercials during daytime soaps, alongside ads for shop at home trash). So the road was painted, and loans were just cast as part of the process.

And then you have the academy. You go to a place surrounded by people who usually don't know what your options are. They don't know how a polisci degree becomes a six-figure job (it can, though it isn't totally connected to the major). They know how to research and go to more school. And there isn't enough god damn guidance to prevent people from finding something they like and then trying to set them on that path (some of the grad school choices, what the hell?). You look at how law and business school are waved around like salves for economic woes, oy.

This isn't to say a lot of people didn't make mistakes. They did. And they had faith put in them when they were 18-year-olds, which is to say, when they were direly stupid about the world. And we had a lot of elder perspective that imagined college to be something that could be mostly paid for with a low-end part-time job when it no longer was. We built ourselves an inordinately stupid mousetrap. Covering some of that debt isn't likely to fix the problem, but we damn sure need to come to our senses about the root causes.

(That was long, and I'm sure missed some perspective, but that was just burbling in my mind. Also, fun fact. In 1995, it would take you less than 700 hours of minimum-wage work to pay for a year at UW-in state. A decade later, more than 2,200 hours)

Great post.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 25, 2022, 09:48:12 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 24, 2022, 09:05:25 PM

The anecdotal evidence/mental masturbation I see on this topic here is sadly predictable. 
"I did it so they can do it, too" is dumbass, narrow thinking and you're too ______ to be embarrassed to share it.  You can fill in the blank yourself....the word isn't "stupid," but it's something bad.

Every doctor that heals or operates on you took on absurd debt to do so.  And no, not everyone who set out to be that helpful, knowledgeable person fulfilled that goal. 
An opportunity to help those who didnt make it presents itself and none of you seem pleased by that.

What the fuck is wrong with you? 

So what is OAM's solution that he would implement if he was King?  Absolve everyone's debt?  Some?  Only the ones who go to medical school?  

What about the people who chose degrees that are not well paying, and then made mediocre or poor grades, thus ensuring they would never be able to climb out of the hole?  When do we expect them to have accountability for their choices?  

Oh, and a lot of Dr's make serious bank.  Like upwards of $300K per year.  So I'm not sure if that is the best one to pick, and it's probably also very small compared to the overall level of debt from students.  

I would like to see a break-down of the debt and what types of college majors carry the most and which ones are "losers" under the current system.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2022, 09:48:34 AM

Oh hell yeah. I took all the OT I could take. 60 hour weeks were commonplace for me. Didn't travel though. That was a few years later when I took a job at a multi-national company. Then I started my companies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 25, 2022, 09:52:29 AM

I made $21.45 in my first job out of college, working the 2nd shift at Applied Materials outside of Austin, in 2001.  I thought it was good money back then.  So I guess that would have been $44.6K per year.  This was right before 9/11 and the very beginning of the internet bubble, so things got slow fast and I ended up leaving before getting laid off.  Plus, I was looking to return to my home area. 

I graduated debt free, with help from my parents and working part time, from A&M in 2001.  I drove old vehicles, lived in cheap apartments, and in general lived as cheap as I could.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2022, 09:56:05 AM

Quote from: Gigem on August 25, 2022, 09:48:12 AM

I would like to see a break-down of the debt and what types of college majors carry the most and which ones are "losers" under the current system. 

You could start with looking a the BA degrees - particularly those that don't move on to Law, etc. 

BA's account for close to 75 percent of all graduates.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2022, 09:58:31 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on August 24, 2022, 11:31:46 PM

Actually, proper funding of public higher ed would go a long way towards dealing with the root concerns. See the linked study at the top of page 1344.

but, this loan forgiveness is not proper funding

it's just throwing money at the problem

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2022, 10:03:57 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 24, 2022, 11:19:46 PM

Agreed.
Let's focus on the tiny minority this doesn't affect. 
Great idea!

like Doctors???
you brought them into this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2022, 10:05:36 AM

This merely transfers the debt from some folks, many of whom have degrees from college, to others, many of whom do not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: highVOLtage on August 25, 2022, 10:09:47 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 25, 2022, 08:05:14 AM

If memory serves, law school also helped exaserbate all this.

There was a stretch where we were producing a ton of lawyers in a pretty tight job market. Throw in the fact that some lawyers in important social roles aren’t paid THAT well, and it became a key source of debt.

If anyone needs a windfall from the government to be paid by someone else, it's Harvard law grads.

https://mobile.twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1562465791014215681

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2022, 10:12:36 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 25, 2022, 10:05:36 AM

This merely transfers the debt from some folks, many of whom have degrees from college, to others, many of whom do not.

it transfers the debt to the taxpayers - yes, for the most part those whom have degrees pay more taxes than those w/o

this will obviously just get added to national debt
the lenders in the Caymans win again

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 25, 2022, 10:37:02 AM

Just saw Biden's student loan buyout program will be half a trillion dollars

oh joy

Im amazed this doesnt require approval by congress

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on August 25, 2022, 10:41:28 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 25, 2022, 09:58:31 AM

but, this loan forgiveness is not proper funding

it's just throwing money at the problem

Yup, and proper funding is getting this money into the front end instead of the back end.

FYI, if you need reading material for your visit to the head, the below is where I'm getting more granular information about state appropriations from: the University's annual financial reports.

Minnesota: https://controller.umn.edu/annual-reports

Wisconsin: https://www.wisconsin.edu/financial-administration/forms-and-publications/annual-financial-reports/

Iowa: https://afr.fo.uiowa.edu/annual-reports

Illinois (http://www.auditor.illinois.gov/audit-reports/U-OF-I-FINANCIAL-AUDITS.asp) : http://www.auditor.illinois.gov/audit-reports/U-OF-I-FINANCIAL-AUDITS.asp

Michigan State: https://ctlr.msu.edu/cofa/FinancialStatement.aspx

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 25, 2022, 10:43:22 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2022, 08:32:16 AM

When I got out of school, my starting pay was $30K/year - which included about 10 years of experience in the field.

That was the going rate.

Now we are paying $75-80K out of school.

For what it’s worth, dollars today are worth about half what they were then. So I salute you guys for having some real entry-level growth.

out of curiosity, you finished up a full on engineering degree correct?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2022, 10:53:50 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 25, 2022, 10:12:36 AM

it transfers the debt to the taxpayers - yes, for the most part those whom have degrees pay more taxes than those w/o

this will obviously just get added to national debt
the lenders in the Caymans win again

The debt situation is added to everyone's bill, not just those who pay taxes.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2022, 10:55:25 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 25, 2022, 10:43:22 AM

For what it’s worth, dollars today are worth about half what they were then. So I salute you guys for having some real entry-level growth.

out of curiosity, you finished up a full on engineering degree correct?

Correct. That is the only path to become a licensed Professional Engineer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: highVOLtage on August 25, 2022, 11:07:00 AM

And of course, it inordinately benefits DC politicians and bureaucrats.

"There is more outstanding student debt in Washington than in any other city in the country. The average debtor in D.C., according to a 2021 breakdown by the small business analyst, AdvisorSmith, owes $54,982 in unpaid student loans. (https://advisorsmith.com/data/states-with-the-highest-student-loan-debt/) This includes many political staffers at the Department of Education, senior advisors as well as junior aides who moved to that agency from the Biden campaign.

Analysis of financial disclosures by the American Accountability Foundation found that the political staff at the agency that oversees the student loan program stand to benefit. The outstanding student loan debt balance among 41 education staffers evaluated could amount to between $2.8 and $6.5 million. According to the AAF estimate obtained by RealClearPolitics, the president may have wiped away as much as $512,646 of their debt."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 25, 2022, 11:23:20 AM

I'm not so much against what they are trying to do, but I'm against continual and permanent deficit spending, which is what we have chosen to do for 20 plus years, with one or two years of balanced budgets/surplus, and then 30+ years before that.  So 50+ years of permanent and continual deficit spending, and then we are going to fix the country's problems with more deficit spending to cover-debts taken on by other people.  

With regards to the deficits I just can't grasp how it can just go on and on with no end in sight.  I understand that we pay on the debt every year, but at some point we need to have a reckoning.  And it's a charade with the politicians.  When the Dems are in power, the Repubs scream about social programs and then this and that and how much the deficit is going to be but when they repubs are in charge it's the same f'n thing.  

What it boils down to in my mind is one thing-somebody, someday will have to pay.  And it probably won't be the truly wealthy people, because the tax code is so screwed up and riddled with loop holes and all that garbage that there will always be a way out.  The poor can't pay, because they don't have much in the first place.  It will be the middle class, as always.  Expected to give the tax breaks for the rich, and pay for the things the poor need.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 25, 2022, 11:28:45 AM

Quote from: Gigem on August 25, 2022, 09:52:29 AM

I made $21.45 in my first job out of college, working the 2nd shift at Applied Materials outside of Austin, in 2001.  I thought it was good money back then.  So I guess that would have been $44.6K per year.  This was right before 9/11 and the very beginning of the internet bubble, so things got slow fast and I ended up leaving before getting laid off.  Plus, I was looking to return to my home area.

I graduated debt free, with help from my parents and working part time, from A&M in 2001.  I drove old vehicles, lived in cheap apartments, and in general lived as cheap as I could. 

Relatively speaking, it was good money!

On the second part, I got a good, if obvious bit of advice from an academic advisor that I talked to some in college (I mostly just asked him what to do with an econ degree, which I give him a B- at answering). But he made the point, "How much money you make matters, but if you can manage to spend less, that's the key." A lot of people, even folks of older generations, don't see that as clearly as they should. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2022, 11:39:51 AM

When it comes to making money, I harken back to an old Kiss song that I really liked.

You Gotta Get All You Can Take

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2022, 02:25:13 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/dNvhs4p.png)

I-10 in CA near AZ.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2022, 02:27:12 PM

That's a bit of a problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2022, 02:36:10 PM

Reminds me of this:

I 85 Atlanta bridge collapse happened 5 years ago | 11alive.com (https://www.11alive.com/article/news/history/i-85-bridge-collapse-atlanta-five-years/85-bafbaada-e7c5-4fdc-83e5-a9dfe7a16d97)

Ultimately it took GDOT crews about six weeks to rebuild the interstate. In April 2018, the National Transportation Safety Board deemed that the Georgia Department of Transportation was at least possibly responsible for the collapse – due to the decision to store construction materials under the bridge, failing to realize the risk. 
The disaster became a case example for the Federal Highway Administration to warn other states not to store flammable material under bridges.
Meanwhile, the man who was experiencing homelessness at the time and accused of starting the fire [color=var(--global-color-action)]emerged out of a legal saga (https://www.11alive.com/article/traffic/i-85-collapse/basil-eleby-i85-collapse-fire-drug-behavioral-program-completed/85-3ed8d18e-d932-4211-8734-d8dfad4747c9)[/url] in 2020, graduating from a court-mandated behavioral and drug abuse program and beginning a search for a new job.[/font][/size][/color]


(https://i.imgur.com/pHNcgZN.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/rZGJdii.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on August 25, 2022, 02:54:34 PM

Infrastructure. Noun. That which very few people care about until it stops working.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2022, 03:01:20 PM

Define "infrastructure" for us, please. ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2022, 04:24:20 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/fGOb9ov.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2022, 04:40:58 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/JXbsN1G.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2022, 04:43:31 PM

I hate that guy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2022, 04:48:32 PM

• You are now operating a Carnot engine at 40% efficiency, which exhausts heat into a heat sink at 298 K. If you want to increase the efficiency of the engine to 65%, to what temperature would you have to raise the heat reservoir?
• A Carnot engine absorbed 1.0 kJ of heat at 300 K, and exhausted 400 J of heat at the end of the cycle. What is the temperature at the end of the cycle?
• An indoor heater operating on the Carnot cycle is warming the house up at a rate of 30 kJ/s to maintain the indoor temperature at 72 ºF. What is the power operating the heater if the outdoor temperature is 30 ºF?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2022, 05:13:14 PM

Economist publication names Atlanta most livable city in U.S. | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/economist-names-atl-most-livable-city-united-states-north-america)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 25, 2022, 07:47:23 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 25, 2022, 02:25:13 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/dNvhs4p.png)

I-10 in CA near AZ.

I don't see the problem....

(https://i.imgur.com/68oVK6X.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on August 25, 2022, 09:07:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 25, 2022, 02:25:13 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/dNvhs4p.png)

I-10 in CA near AZ.

https://youtu.be/piMkm_XNz7Y

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 25, 2022, 09:58:59 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2022, 04:43:31 PM

I hate that guy.

When I was in college, I lived with an engineer for a year. Lovely guy. 

He was taking thermo and I would always, I thought clearly sarcastically, joke that my history of mass communication course was much tougher than thermo (clearly not). 

Halfway through the year, he was like "I don't understand how you do it with involvement in multiple student orgs and a class that hard." I had to make a correction. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on August 25, 2022, 10:12:09 PM

Even I was able to duck thermodynamics. 

I did have to take deformable body mechanics, which was hard as hell. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 25, 2022, 10:36:26 PM

I never took Thermo but a close EE equivalent is Electromagnetic Field Theory.  Similar differential calculus is used in both. It was a difficult subject.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 25, 2022, 10:37:27 PM

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/25/spacex-and-t-mobile-team-up-to-use-starlink-satellites.html

Satellites that work directly with smart phones.  These are the kinds of things that are evolving with cheaper access to space and a rocket that can launch very large satellites to space for less money.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2022, 08:33:17 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on August 25, 2022, 10:12:09 PM

Even I was able to duck thermodynamics.

I did have to take deformable body mechanics, which was hard as hell.

Not us. We had to take all the core courses beyond statics and dynamics.

Thermodynamics, mechanics of deformable bodies and several electrical shit courses. All 5 hour courses with labs.

My brain hurts. But, I'm sure they helped for the E.I.T. exam. I don't remember anything about that thing, except for the headache.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2022, 08:37:51 AM

We had a lot of thermo, and it often was difficult.  It later turned out to be very important, but often my bosses didn't appear to believe in it, which caused me some angst.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2022, 09:03:29 AM

Found in the "American food" section in Switzerland ....

(https://i.imgur.com/vQptVw9.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 26, 2022, 09:16:52 AM

Pizzaburger hot dog does seem to cover most of the bases.  Well done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2022, 10:58:39 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 26, 2022, 09:16:52 AM

Pizzaburger hot dog does seem to cover most of the bases.  Well done.

Chili and BBQ toppings extra.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2022, 11:00:22 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/FEnFwUN.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2022, 11:04:54 AM

Made something similar to that one time. Saw it on DDD and decided to do it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2022, 11:06:36 AM

I might try it myself, with grilled onions and peppers and mustard, might be decent.

Maybe call it the Austinacago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on August 26, 2022, 11:17:08 AM

Thermo was the killer course for me. Convinced me after 3 years in an engineering program to switch to business

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2022, 11:30:37 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 26, 2022, 09:03:29 AM

Found in the "American food" section in Switzerland ....

(https://i.imgur.com/vQptVw9.png)

geeez.. now I hate Americans

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 26, 2022, 12:51:02 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 26, 2022, 09:16:52 AM

Pizzaburger hot dog does seem to cover most of the bases.  Well done.

You designed food primarily to placate six year olds. Good job

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2022, 01:37:07 PM

well, that's what they think of Americans

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 26, 2022, 05:19:34 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/SEQHy0H.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on August 26, 2022, 05:54:41 PM

https://youtu.be/JUDSeb2zHQ0

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2022, 09:00:31 PM

Hoffenberg, found guilty of running a Ponzi scheme in 1997, accused Epstein of participating. 
Convicted in 1997 of a Ponzi scheme he accused Jeffrey Epstein of participating in, Steven Hoffenberg was found dead Tuesday in his Derby, Connecticut, home, according to Rolling Stone. The cause and manner of death remain unknown, as Hoffenberg’s body was badly decomposed. He was 77 years old.

The Derby Police Department told Rolling Stone in a statement that officers responded to a welfare check around 8 p.m. Tuesday when they found “the body of a white male… in a state where a visual identification could not be made.”

An initial autopsy yielded no signs of trauma.

The welfare check was requested by an artist named Maria Farmer, who claimed she was sexually abused by Epstein decades ago. She told Rolling Stone she was in daily contact with Hoffenberg and reached out to the police when her repeated calls to Hoffenberg weren’t returned.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2022, 07:03:01 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/udY8S63.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 27, 2022, 09:21:36 AM

wrong thread

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 27, 2022, 08:41:59 PM

long walk for Cincy..........

https://www.twistedsoulcookhouseandpours.com/ (https://www.twistedsoulcookhouseandpours.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 28, 2022, 08:23:49 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 27, 2022, 09:21:36 AM

wrong thread

It's other news perhaps not good news either

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2022, 09:02:49 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 27, 2022, 08:41:59 PM

long walk for Cincy..........

https://www.twistedsoulcookhouseandpours.com/ (https://www.twistedsoulcookhouseandpours.com/)

Menu looks fun.  I'm checking the map now.  Yeah, that is an odd area, used to be all light industrial, now folks are opening good restaurants around there and there are some apts going up and already built.  One of the top rated restaurants in the city is near there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2022, 09:48:06 AM

how far to walk?
Too far?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2022, 10:15:08 AM

We could walk it, but it's three miles plus, and the roads over there are not at all conducive to walking.  The area just south of that is growing like kudzu with roads built long ago intended for very light traffic.  It's turning into a mess really which is a shame because there are some neat places to dine over that way.  The land obviously was much cheaper than this side of the freeway. 

The area is just north of the Tech campus basically, so it's attracting a lot of "tech" stuff.  And a new park recently opened a bit west of all of this, and the Beltline runs near the park and it has been a huge incentive for apartment buildings on the east side.

It's sort of amazing to watch really.  Were we in our 30s, I think we'd be apt to moving over there, I think in a decade that area will be tres cher.

Visit the West Midtown Atlanta Neighborhood - Discover Atlanta (https://discoveratlanta.com/explore/neighborhoods/midtown/west-midtown/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 28, 2022, 10:25:02 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 28, 2022, 09:48:06 AM

how far to walk?
Too far?

Too expensive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2022, 10:25:48 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/7qWeJth.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 28, 2022, 10:35:53 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/6iibLEQ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2022, 10:45:49 AM

We had lunch with our friend who is a long time realtor here.  He said the market is still crazy here.  He had 21 offers on one house he had listed.  He then said he had seen other fairly similar houses just sitting with no offers because they had been over priced, though the listing price was less than what other houses would finally get.  His problem is he can't come up with a decent listing price, and scarily, he said the banks are giving out loans because their appraisers are apprasing with high prices now, they can't figure it out either.  Willing buyer etc.

He has never seen this kind of market in his career, and he's been through hot markets before of course.  Single family is just red hot, inside the perimeter, outside, far outside, buyers are in a panic mode getting transferred here and HAVING to find a house to get their kids settled.  And those who come from CA/NY of course find these prices to be very reasonable.  I think we're headed for a collapse, but I don't know when of course, and neither does he.  The banks will end up with loans far in excess of market prices.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2022, 11:24:55 AM

A government program ....

Officials in 2012 estimated that the SLS rocket would cost $6 billion to develop, debut in 2017 and carry a $500 million per launch price tag. But the rocket is only just now debuting, having cost more than $20 billion to develop, and its per launch price tag has ballooned to $4.1 billion (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/01/nasa-auditor-warns-congress-artemis-missions-sls-rocket-billions-over-budget.html).
NASA’s Inspector General, its internal auditor, earlier this year said Artemis is not the “sustainable” moon program that the agency’s officials say it is. The watchdog found more than $40 billion has already been spent on the program, and projected NASA would spend $93 billion on the effort through 2025 – when the first landing is planned.

But even that 2025 date is in doubt, according to NASA’s Inspector General, which said that development technologies needed to land on the moon’s surface are unlikely to be ready before 2026, at the earliest.
NASA’s Artemis plan relies on the success of another monster rocket as well: SpaceX’s Starship. The agency last year awarded SpaceX with a $2.9 billion contract to develop a moon-specific version of the rocket to serve as the crew lunar lander for the Artemis III mission.
SpaceX began testing of its Starship spacecraft in earnest in 2019, but that rocket has yet to reach orbit (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/05/elon-musks-spacex-raises-250-million-in-equity.html).
A host of aerospace contractors across the U.S. support the hardware, infrastructure and software for NASA’s Artemis I – Boeing (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/BA), Lockheed Martin (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/LMT), Northrop Grumman (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/NOC), Aerojet Rocketdyne (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/AJRD) and Jacobs (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/J) lead the effort. According to NASA, the Artemis program supports about 70,000 jobs around the country.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2022, 11:27:38 AM

as with money spent on climate change............

what's the ROI on that space program project?

while we're at it, what's the ROI on the student loan forgiveness spending

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2022, 11:29:42 AM

At least with CC, one could roughly estimate ROI, I don't think one can with space efforts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2022, 11:34:06 AM

so, space money is just fun money?

with a hope we get something positive out of it someday?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2022, 11:39:23 AM

I'd view it that way, yes, it's part of the human desire to explore and understand.  I think much of it is better done with "drones", not humans.  But there is also a longer term probability we need to establish a long term presence on another planet.

This Artemis rocket design strikes me as using obsolete tech in an attempt to keep costs down.  It's a blunt force approach.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 28, 2022, 01:04:17 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 28, 2022, 11:39:23 AM

I'd view it that way, yes, it's part of the human desire to explore and understand.  I think much of it is better done with "drones", not humans.  But there is also a longer term probability we need to establish a long term presence on another planet.

This Artemis rocket design strikes me as using obsolete tech in an attempt to keep costs down.  It's a blunt force approach.

It’s a jobs program and nothing else. It keeps the company making the space shuttle main engines in business ( Aerojet Rocketdyne), the company making the side solid boosters, and Boeing who makes the core stage. 

it won’t even be as capable as the Saturn V which we retired in the early 70’s. It can’t even take a lander to get down to the surface because it doesn’t have enough thrust and the Orion capsule is much heavier than its Apollo counterpart. It’s useless as it comes, and it’s expensive. The senators who pushed this pile of junk should be tarred and feathered. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 28, 2022, 01:13:45 PM

I’d like to go see the launch, it should still be very impressive and it will the the most powerful operational rocket in the world.  It may also be the only time it launches. The next flight, dubbed Artemis II won’t fly until ‘24 or ‘25 at the earliest. It will be a repeat of Apollo 8, flying a crewed mission around the moon and back to earth. The media won’t cover it much but the Orion capsule on this flight isn’t even capable of carrying a crew because it doesn’t have any life support systems. They are flying a test capsule. 

Btw, NASA was so daring for Apollo8 that the very first time a Saturn V rocket launched a Apollo CSM they flew to the moon and orbited it. They were afraid the soviets would beat them to it and at the time the Russians had pretty much beat us to everything else in space. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2022, 01:33:24 PM

NASA Provides Update to Astronaut Moon Lander Plans Under Artemis | NASA (https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-provides-update-to-astronaut-moon-lander-plans-under-artemis)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2022, 01:33:46 PM

If you had shown this to me in 1970, I would have looked askance ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2022, 02:04:49 PM

Best Low level flying Mach loop Highlights 2021, RAF & USAF F-15 Strike Eagle Low Flying of 2021 (alurmedya.com) (https://alurmedya.com/best-low-level-flying-mach-loop-highlights-2021-raf-usaf-f-15-strike-eagle-low-flying-of-2021_256358ae1.html?fbclid=IwAR1W34MJwI3lJS36qPfQ2mhbG7hP9ypr4-i6qdLR6mOdQaN_Jal_Sd3rQqg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 28, 2022, 06:12:52 PM

F/15 is an awesome plane. It never got as much press/ Hollywood time as other jets but has held its own and is still very formidable. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2022, 06:16:37 PM

The first test flight of the F-15 was in 1972, so the basic design is over 50 years old.  It became operational in 1975.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 28, 2022, 07:55:36 PM

They’re still making new ones, F-15 EX, there are whispers that the military prefers it over the F-35. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 28, 2022, 08:12:47 PM

But they’re all built for different purposes. Mainly to defeat the USSR in a war that never came. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2022, 08:20:58 PM

I always imagined our F class as being like Orcas and foreign Migs and such as quick, little sharks.  They can turn on a dime and hurt you, but ours are massive death machines.  Is that accurate?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2022, 08:44:36 PM

Quote from: Gigem on August 28, 2022, 08:12:47 PM

But they’re all built for different purposes. Mainly to defeat the USSR in a war that never came.

Ukraine is giving them hell!!!

who'd a thunk it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 28, 2022, 11:13:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 28, 2022, 06:16:37 PM

The first test flight of the F-15 was in 1972, so the basic design is over 50 years old.  It became operational in 1975.

But when did it become... FULLY operational?




(https://i.imgur.com/L9fi5Cb.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2022, 07:22:38 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 28, 2022, 08:20:58 PM

I always imagined our F class as being like Orcas and foreign Migs and such as quick, little sharks.  They can turn on a dime and hurt you, but ours are massive death machines.  Is that accurate?

No, that is not remotely accurate today.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 29, 2022, 07:41:29 AM

You flew crop dusters how do you know?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2022, 07:55:38 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 29, 2022, 07:41:29 AM

You flew crop dusters how do you know?

Crop dusters are pretty complex aircraft actually, I flew Cessnas of the simplest type available.  Russian fighters often are designed to LOOK a lot like our fighters, but they come in different types, just as do ours.  The MiG-25 is something quite different of course, large, enormously powerful and fast, and built to intercept a bomber we never built (past 4 prototypes).  The MiG-29 is pretty similar to our F-15 in many respects, a difference is the quality of our avionics and radars.


(https://i.imgur.com/UZcCCcv.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 29, 2022, 08:04:04 AM

I remember my brother telling me that the Russians somewhat copied F-15 Tomcat.However they had egg on their face when they incorporated the landing gear for carrier based models for their land based ones.Not really understanding what that function was.This evidently was in the mid'70s. He was in the NAVY,later another bro recruited him into the Air Force.Prolly to meet his recruit quota for a new set of clubs or sum such

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2022, 08:10:13 AM

F-14 Tomcat, the F-15 is the Eagle.  I don't know of a Soviet plane that attempted to copy the former.  

During WW 2, Stalin ordered copies of the B-29 to be made, exactly, and they were, down to having English screws and markings on the dials.

Damaged B-29s would sometimes land in Russia and be interned after a strike on Japan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 29, 2022, 09:04:01 AM

Artemis is scrubbed for today.  And the press keeps repeating the mantra "NASA's largest rocket ever", which is a lie.  Yes, it does have more thrust at launch, but it is not as capable as the Saturn V, which could put almost 50 tons into lunar orbit.  SLS Block 1 can only throw about 30 tons into LO.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2022, 09:29:47 AM

Is that because the rocket mass is higher than Saturn V?  That would make it the "largest rocket ever" even if it's less capable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2022, 09:31:50 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/OPO7h08.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 29, 2022, 09:57:52 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 29, 2022, 09:31:50 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/OPO7h08.png)

This graphic is part of the lie that is being propogated by the media and the gov't.  Notice where it says "Block 2" on mass to the moon?  Block 2 is years away from flying, probably at least 5 or more.  Block 1 is where we're at through at least Artemis III, and probably all the way through Artemis VIII.  

Block 1 is about 50K lbs to the moon.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 29, 2022, 10:02:26 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 29, 2022, 09:29:47 AM

Is that because the rocket mass is higher than Saturn V?  That would make it the "largest rocket ever" even if it's less capable.

To tell you the truth I'm not entirely sure.  I've read different things, and the answers seem inconsistent.  The core stage of SLS uses solid rocket boosters, which give it a leg up on the thrust, but also add some weight.  The Apollo CSM had a much more powerful engine because when it was first designed there was some thought that they were going to need a big engine to lift off the moon (before the LM was finalized).  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 29, 2022, 10:22:54 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 29, 2022, 08:10:13 AM

F-14 Tomcat, the F-15 is the Eagle.  I don't know of a Soviet plane that attempted to copy the former. 

Ya one of those got my wires crossed  :sorry:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2022, 12:00:13 PM

If the thrust is higher, so is payload unless the empty weight is higher.  Either way, this discussion is pretty disappointing, to me.  This thing is basically an uprated space shuttle that is not reusable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 29, 2022, 01:56:45 PM

It was designed by politicians not real rocket scientists.  Real rocket scientists wanted to put a propellant depot in space, use re-usable rockets, modern engines, you know, the things that would drive costs down.  The politicians had no desire to drive down the costs, they only wanted money for their districts.  So they built a rocket with no clear goal in mind (remember the "asteroid redicrect mission?), just keep the space shuttle economy going by re-using space shuttle hardware.  Except the SS was re-usable, except for the tank.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 29, 2022, 03:20:19 PM

Ukraine said Monday that its forces launched a military offensive in multiple directions in the south.
It said an offensive push broke through some front-line Russian defenses near the occupied city Kherson.
The move possibly signals the start of a long-awaited Ukrainian counteroffensive.
Ukraine says its forces have launched a major military offensive against Russian positions in multiple directions in the country's southern region on Monday, possibly signaling the start of a long-anticipated counteroffensive.

"The Armed Forces of Ukraine have breached the occupiers' first line of defense near Kherson," Ukraine's strategic communications center, part of the Ministry of Culture and Information Policy of Ukraine, said in a statement. "They believe that Ukraine has a real chance to get back its occupied territories, especially considering the very successful use of Western weapons by the Ukrainian army."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 30, 2022, 04:13:08 PM

The number of container ships headed for the California ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach -- a traffic jam that once symbolized American consumer vigor during the pandemic -- declined to the lowest level since the bottleneck started to build two years ago.

Eight vessels were in the official queue as of late Monday, according to data from the Marine Exchange of Southern California & Vessel Traffic Service Los Angeles and Long Beach. That’s an all-time low, officials said in a statement, down from a record of 109 set in January and about 40 lined up a year ago.


(https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AA11fega.img?w=768&h=479&m=6)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 30, 2022, 10:06:46 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/302312395_7811807962225512_6307613259604553958_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p552x414&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=a26aad&_nc_ohc=QvykukC-D58AX_16n77&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_2_zZLuDrPFGmMnwxoR1Bw3kiLVjrywilYN1unOiSvUQ&oe=6312C025)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 31, 2022, 08:14:13 AM

In case any of you forgot OktoberFests are out now.Get it - "in case" ? OK the humor sux but the point still stands,Bastages. Hey  FF toss in a few Runza's and some BUD and that's sustenance to tide a Hawkeye over for the Winter

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 31, 2022, 08:19:05 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/SZ3PFwE.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 31, 2022, 08:32:34 AM

Ha I have a plastic barrel of the sourough dough knots.Nothing like fresh though,damn that's enough to tide a Buckeye over for an Ohio Winter

(https://i.imgur.com/1o2xYMx.png)
Oh BTW Marzen Style would be more accurate - just sayin' ;D

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on August 31, 2022, 08:42:02 AM

The suds will flow at Oktoberfest in Munich for the first time in 3 years. That's a bucket list trip.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 31, 2022, 08:50:39 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on August 31, 2022, 08:42:02 AM

The suds will flow at Oktoberfest in Munich for the first time in 3 years. That's a bucket list trip.

Definitely, it's been on my list forever.

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 31, 2022, 08:32:34 AM

Oh BTW Marzen Style would be more accurate - just sayin' ;D

Live Oak does entirely European styles, so they always identify the style by its place of origin.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 31, 2022, 09:06:12 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on August 31, 2022, 08:42:02 AM

The suds will flow at Oktoberfest in Munich for the first time in 3 years. That's a bucket list trip.

We're going next year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 31, 2022, 09:13:59 AM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mikhail Gorbachev, President of the Soviet Union, passed away today at 91. <a href="https://t.co/OKEMOL7lTQ">pic.twitter.com/OKEMOL7lTQ</a></p>&mdash; Katya Pavlushchenko (@katlinegrey) <a href="https://twitter.com/katlinegrey/status/1564717883342688257?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 30, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I really wasn't sure if he was dead, but I was surprised to see that he was not (until yesterday).  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 31, 2022, 09:19:02 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 31, 2022, 08:50:39 AM

Definitely, it's been on my list forever.

Live Oak does entirely European styles, so they always identify the style by its place of origin. 

We should make a road trip to ensure they are doing just that .Of course we could always sample ALL of their efforts as good ambassadors should

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 31, 2022, 07:22:28 PM

I'm in for the week before or after Xmas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 31, 2022, 07:24:25 PM

Winter in Europe?  Oof, too cold.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 31, 2022, 07:30:51 PM

hell no.

Trip to Live Oak in Austin

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 31, 2022, 07:33:59 PM

Oh yeah, in that case, sure!  They'll have the Primus Weizenbock out from December through Febraury, that's a very special beer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on August 31, 2022, 07:44:23 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 31, 2022, 07:24:25 PM

Winter in Europe?  Oof, too cold.

Late December and early January in Italy can have fantastic weather. 

It can also be super damp and dreary, like it was in Bologna. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 31, 2022, 08:09:41 PM

Depends on where in Italy.  Also depends on your definition of "fantastic" because for me anything below about 65 doesn't qualify.

I once spent an entire spring in France and that was some crappy dreary drizzly weather.  When I left in late May, there'd finally been a handful of days of what I'd consider nice spring weather, but they were few and far between.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 01, 2022, 12:26:51 PM

chairman of Russia's oil giant Lukoil Ravil Maganov has died after falling from a window in a Moscow hospital, Russian state media reported.

Maganov, 67, committed suicide, state-run agency TASS reported citing unnamed law enforcement sources.

"He was [getting treated] in the hospital after a heart attack. In addition, he was taking antidepressants," TASS reported Thursday.


Lukoil later confirmed his death but said Maganov "passed away after a serious illness."

This is the sixth incident involving high-profile Russian energy executives dying under murky circumstances this year.

In May, Russian outlets reported that Lukoil's former top executive and board member Alexander Subbotin died after receiving dubious treatment from a "shaman" that involved an infusion of poison from a toad.

In April, two former high-ranking managers of Novatek, Russia's second-largest natural gas producer, and Gazprombank, a large bank linked to a Gazprom gas corporation, were found dead along with their family members. State media reported that they killed their spouses and children and then committed suicide.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 12:33:12 PM

I'm off to Paris Monday, the weather is so-so in the forecast.  April in Paris is a song, but the weather is often rainy dreary.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 01, 2022, 12:57:38 PM

Quote from: Gigem on August 29, 2022, 09:04:01 AM

Artemis is scrubbed for today.  And the press keeps repeating the mantra "NASA's largest rocket ever", which is a lie.  Yes, it does have more thrust at launch, but it is not as capable as the Saturn V, which could put almost 50 tons into lunar orbit.  SLS Block 1 can only throw about 30 tons into LO. 

NASA’s small experiment to produce oxygen on Mars managed to generate about 100 minutes’ worth of breathable oxygen in 2021. Now it is set to be scaled up to support future human exploration.

The Mars Oxygen In-Situ Resource Utilization Experiment (MOXIE) is a small oxygen-generating device that landed on the Red Planet atop the Perseverance rover in February 2021.

Over the course of seven hour-long production runs during that year, MOXIE was able to reliably produce roughly 15 minutes of oxygen per hour in a variety of harsh planetary conditions. That added up to a total of 50 grams of oxygen in total – about 100 minutes’ worth of breathable oxygen for a single astronaut.

“At the highest level, this is just a brilliant success,” says Michael Hecht at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology Haystack Observatory, who co-leads the MOXIE experiment.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 01:57:09 PM

Georgia football has CFB's No. 2 roster in 247Sports Team Talent Composite (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/Georgia-football-has-CFBs-No-2-roster-in-247Sports-Team-Talent-Composite-192403648/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2022, 02:42:14 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 12:33:12 PM

I'm off to Paris Monday, the weather is so-so in the forecast.  April in Paris is a song, but the weather is often rainy dreary.

Yeah I spent about a week in Paris in April, it was cold, rainy, and miserable.

June was much nicer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 01, 2022, 03:02:01 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 31, 2022, 07:30:51 PM

hell no.

Trip to Live Oak in Austin

Too hot - plus all the cali-types,carpet baggers and border hordes piling in 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2022, 03:42:55 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on September 01, 2022, 03:02:01 PM

Too hot - plus all the cali-types,carpet baggers and border hordes piling in

You didn't even mention the worst part...

...the Texans!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 03:52:33 PM

As we were strolling through the art show in the park (which I enjoy), folks hand you free samples, one of which was Beyond Meat Jerky, which I am now snacking on.  To be fair, it's edible, in a Soylent kind of way.  It's labeled NO GMOs NO SOY NO GLUTEN SLOW RAOSTED KETTLE COOKED.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 01, 2022, 04:48:05 PM

soy might be better

maybe not

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 01, 2022, 04:52:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 12:33:12 PM

I'm off to Paris Monday, the weather is so-so in the forecast.  April in Paris is a song, but the weather is often rainy dreary.

lucky dawg! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 01, 2022, 04:52:58 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 31, 2022, 08:09:41 PM

Depends on where in Italy.  Also depends on your definition of "fantastic" because for me anything below about 65 doesn't qualify.

I once spent an entire spring in France and that was some crappy dreary drizzly weather.  When I left in late May, there'd finally been a handful of days of what I'd consider nice spring weather, but they were few and far between.

Sicily has fantastic weather year round lol. But yeah, Northern and Central Italy can get a little chilly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 01, 2022, 04:53:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 01:57:09 PM

Georgia football has CFB's No. 2 roster in 247Sports Team Talent Composite (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/Georgia-football-has-CFBs-No-2-roster-in-247Sports-Team-Talent-Composite-192403648/)

A&M at #4 is surprising. When they win 8 games with the #4 roster on paper...lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2022, 04:59:25 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on September 01, 2022, 04:52:58 PM

Sicily has fantastic weather year round lol. But yeah, Northern and Central Italy can get a little chilly.

Yeah I spent a considerable amount of time in Sicily, it was great.

But Italians don't really consider Sicily to be part of Italy-- so why should I? ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2022, 05:00:12 PM

https://twitter.com/Flash43191300/status/1565302493071958024?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1565302493071958024%7Ctwgr%5E208eb1429c951d3a76c197bf8bd8fde250b21c15%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FFlash43191300%2Fstatus%2F1565302493071958024%3Fs%3D2026t%3D-w5xLzuwpbRkWW8w6Xxq5A

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 01, 2022, 05:00:34 PM

I'll be Sicilians don't either

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2022, 05:04:09 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 01, 2022, 05:00:34 PM

I'll be Sicilians don't either

In my experience, they didn't care one way or the other.  They were too busy eating delicious food and drinking delicious wine and hanging out in great weather.

But I do have a friend from New York whose family is originally from Sicily, and other Italian-Americans whose families were from the mainland, looked down on him and his family.  Mainlanders basically consider Sicilians to be "mudbloods."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: highVOLtage on September 01, 2022, 11:34:19 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/Sciencenature14/status/1565152277945614338

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2022, 03:25:27 PM

College Football Playoff expansion: Board agrees to 12-team field with aim to implement as soon as possible - CBSSports.com (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-playoff-expansion-board-agrees-to-12-team-field-with-aim-to-implement-as-soon-as-possible/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 02, 2022, 03:26:29 PM

Down the road, I predict folks compain when the same ol' teams get in every year, along with a few Michigan States et al.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 02, 2022, 04:08:45 PM

What's the proposed playoff format? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 02, 2022, 04:51:59 PM

Bama gets a bye

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on September 02, 2022, 04:52:07 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 02, 2022, 03:26:29 PM

Down the road, I predict folks compain when the same ol' teams get in every year, along with a few Michigan States et al.

With 12 teams I think there will be a lot of variety.  Right now it's pretty much the same ol' teams.  Alabama, Ohio State, George, OU.  Sure a MSU and UM have gotten in, but every now and then we'll have an Oklahoma State, UCLA, Baylor, A&M.  There are a lot of great ball teams at the end of the year that were spurned because of losses in the early part of the season.  
Even if you have 4 SEC and 4 B1G you will still have room for 4 of the Big 12, ACC, PAC, and maybe a G5 here or there.  Most years the result will be the same, but not always.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 02, 2022, 04:57:18 PM

if it's seeded 1 vs 12 and 2 vs 11 and 3 vs 10 & 4 vs 9

we'll learn to avoid watching the beatdowns

but, if an upset happens it'll be like March madness, until the 2nd round

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 02, 2022, 05:27:12 PM

THOUGHT OF THE DAY:

"Should you find yourself in a chronically leaking boat, energy devoted to changing vessels is likely to be more productive than energy devoted to patching leaks." - Warren Buffett

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 02, 2022, 07:31:50 PM

The ole cut-and-run.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on September 02, 2022, 09:03:21 PM

At least you’ll be giving them a chance to compete. Because right now there is a pretty large contingent of CFB that is locked out. You have to have a perfect season unless you are ND, Ohio St, or in that blue blood list. And even then think about the teams over the years that deserved to play in any kind of playoff. 2004 Auburn, 2008 Texas, 2013 Alabama. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 02, 2022, 09:49:15 PM

well, the top 4 get a bye, so............

a week to rest up and wait for the 5 vs 12 and 6 vs 11 and 7 vs 10 matchups to beat each other up

so, it's a 4 team playoff with a few others to beat each other up before a shot to knock off one of the top 4

and it'll be fun when one or possibly even two of the top 4 get knocked off

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 03, 2022, 07:39:57 AM

I think the top four will get beat nearly every year by a 5 or 6, or even 7 at times.

It'll be blamed on their getting stale of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 03, 2022, 07:42:59 AM

Money grab. 

Nothing changes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 03, 2022, 09:10:52 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 03, 2022, 07:39:57 AM

I think the top four will get beat nearly every year by a 5 or 6, or even 7 at times.

It'll be blamed on their getting stale of course.

you mean one out of the top 4?
it won't be nearly fun enough until a 10 or 11 pulls an upset over a top 4
and eventually it will happen

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 03, 2022, 09:16:09 AM

I think in the past, the difference between 4 and 5,6,7 has been pretty slight, arguably at times reversed, so yes, I expect 4 to get upset nearly half the time, and 3 to get upset perhaps a third of the time.  And upsets happen even when seeding is correct.  And this adds one more tough game the eventual NC team has to win even if they are top four.  I doubt bottom 8 wins it very often, maybe once a decade or so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 03, 2022, 09:23:59 AM

yup, bottom 8 won't win it often, but someone out of the bottom 4 knocking off a top 4 will be fun

of course they will then lose the following game, but....... they will have their glory!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 03, 2022, 09:28:48 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/dcqvRVg.png)

I'd say this means UGA doesn't win the NC (probably).  They could win games 1 and 2.  They did beat Bama so maybe game 3, maybe.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 03, 2022, 09:44:08 AM

great seeding for the Big Ten

so, more bullshit maneuvering by the committee to produce the best matchups - for conferences and for TV ratings

PERFECT!!! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 04, 2022, 12:03:12 PM

I have a hard time getting worked up about a mythical tournament and the mythical seedings produced within it.

There's plenty of actual, real horrible stuff in college football to be bothered by.  Like aggies and sooners. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 05, 2022, 10:29:03 AM

MADISON, Wis. (WFRV) – On one Thursday evening in Wisconsin, 143 patrons at a particular bar were contacted by police, and only six were of age.

According to the Madison Police Department, during the evening of September 1, a proactive enforcement of liquor laws in the downtown area was conducted. Multiple bars were visited and the establishments were reportedly cooperative with officers.

However, at one particular bar, 137 individuals were cited for underage alcohol consumption and false identification violations. A total of 143 individuals were contacted and only six of them were over 21 or older.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 06, 2022, 03:26:54 AM

Got to watch Top Gun II on the flight fun movie. Also documentary on Nolan Ryan.In hotel lobby now waiting on room.  I’ll fait froid  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 06, 2022, 08:36:01 AM

I really enjoyed Top Gun 2.  I'll definitely watch it again when it hits the streaming services.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 06, 2022, 10:36:06 AM

I'd rather watch the documentary on Nolan Ryan

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 06, 2022, 11:30:06 AM

I almost saw Nolan Ryan throw his 3000th strikeout in Houston back in 1980.  He got within a few, but didn't quite manage it.  I believe he finally threw it in his next outing or two, and it was an away game.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 06, 2022, 11:41:58 AM

I almost saw Craig Biggio get his 3000th hit in Wrigley

but then they pulled him out of the lineup so he could do it at home

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 06, 2022, 12:08:11 PM

The Nolan show was great.  Mensch…

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 06, 2022, 12:08:50 PM

This jet lag gets worse with age 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 06, 2022, 02:28:17 PM

$20 for a Big Mac combo meal, coming soon.

Newsom Signs Fast Food Law, Setting Stage for $22 Pay Next Year (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/newsom-signs-fast-food-law-setting-stage-for-22-pay-next-year/ar-AA11w8Cf?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=c69ee6f291634e05bc709da1eedc50f9)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 06, 2022, 03:05:26 PM

lucky for me, I don't eat fast food

and prices weren't even the reason

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 06, 2022, 03:19:10 PM

also, you don't live in California, so there's that...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 06, 2022, 03:53:30 PM

Other states will soon follow. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 06, 2022, 03:59:58 PM

Quote from: utee94 on September 06, 2022, 03:19:10 PM

also, you don't live in California, so there's that...

or Texas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 06, 2022, 04:21:26 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 06, 2022, 03:59:58 PM

or Texas

Thank You For Your Support

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 06, 2022, 04:29:35 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 06, 2022, 03:59:58 PM

or Texas

Or Florida.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 06, 2022, 04:41:03 PM

Kiosks 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 06, 2022, 05:02:20 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/305656716_643325007159803_6725243091077010281_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=a7xrOt92fYkAX8zdQa2&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_JSjozHrEHclYYealhVLEWxt6zaorfIzftxP0FzBMfmg&oe=631D0B00)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 06, 2022, 05:04:07 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 06, 2022, 04:41:03 PM

Kiosks

Yup.  This:


(https://i.imgur.com/T4MZ1jP.png)

Combined with this:

(https://i.imgur.com/lczOFp6.jpg)



Will eventually make expensive fast-food employees obsolete.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 06, 2022, 05:07:02 PM

All part of the plan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 06, 2022, 05:13:01 PM

another reason to eat at home

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 06, 2022, 05:32:51 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 06, 2022, 05:13:01 PM

another reason to eat at home

You eat wings out every single week.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 06, 2022, 05:35:19 PM

I was gonna say, "Yeah, OK wing man".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 06, 2022, 05:41:43 PM

I do occasionally make wings in my air fryer

and the places that I go out to eat wings don't have a kiosk or look like the pics above

(https://hootersoflouisiana.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/hooters-girls-beer-and-wings.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 06, 2022, 05:45:33 PM

I actually prefer the breaded wings at Hooter's.  I know they're not "authentic" Buffalo style and I'm okay with that.  My i s c & a aggie wife prefers them too.  It's been a while, I should probably go check them out and make sure they're still good.  The wings, of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 06, 2022, 05:48:15 PM

I like naked wings.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 06, 2022, 05:50:45 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 06, 2022, 05:48:15 PM

I like naked wings.

I think most people do.

But I don't.  At least, not as much as I like Hooter's breaded ones.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 06, 2022, 05:57:01 PM

I like the breaded wings at Hooters

the breading with the bits of jalapeños 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on September 06, 2022, 06:32:18 PM

My first exposure to Hooter's was a family trip to a variety of places in the Mid-Atlantic and DC, and we ate at one in Fairfax, VA (I was about 19).  I remember they brought a pitcher of cold beer with a bag of ice, or maybe the pitcher had one of those ice reservoirs.   I remember my parents and older brother (we were all WI residents) being very confused.     What's this for? we asked.   "That helps keep the beer cold, longer."  the helpful waitress says.   Still confused.   Why would we take that long to drink a pitcher of beer, we wondered.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 07, 2022, 09:49:42 AM

The Biden administration’s plan to cancel up to $20,000 in student debt isn’t limited to borrowers seeking relief on loans the government already owns.

Roughly $110 billion in older “privately” held student loans created under the now defunct Federal Family Education Loan Program (FFEL) also could qualify, even through they aren’t directly eligible for debt relief under President Biden’s plan, a person with direct knowledge of the matter told MarketWatch.

As long as they meet the income criteria for the debt relief plan, borrowers with FFEL loans held outside of the government’s reach, including those packaged years ago into bond deals, can be consolidated into a new federal “direct loan” to qualify for cancellation, according to the Department.

If borrowers with these loans take the government up on its offer to consolidate to receive the debt relief, it also could mean an unexpected deluge of payments to bonds that benefit investors.

Who owns student loans
Like in the mortgage market, the U.S. government for decades has been the dominant player in financing student loans.

With the Education Department’s roughly $1.1 trillion stake, the federal government owns everything but a tiny slice (see chart) of the overall $1.6 trillion student loan pie.


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/bidens-plan-to-cancel-student-debt-can-apply-to-billions-of-dollars-in-investor-owned-loans-but-there-is-a-hitch-11662498086 (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/bidens-plan-to-cancel-student-debt-can-apply-to-billions-of-dollars-in-investor-owned-loans-but-there-is-a-hitch-11662498086)

(https://images.mktw.net/im-614551?width=700&height=471)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 07, 2022, 09:48:45 PM

We'd go to Hooters' trivia night in Gainesville.  The breaded wings were good, but you couldn't eat an obscene number of them, or you'd die.

My HS football team would go to Calico Jack's AYCE wings.....caribbean sauce......I'd routinely eat 50+ wings each time.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 07, 2022, 10:07:53 PM

I buddy and I would finish off the 50 wing platter at Hooters back in the 90's (25 each)

breaded with the jalapeno bits and plenty of curly fries

I was early 30's instead of 60

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 08, 2022, 07:46:59 AM

Damn. You're 60 now?

I'm coming for ya...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 08, 2022, 08:47:45 AM

yup, can't hide from that number

I'm old

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on September 08, 2022, 09:48:02 AM

Apologies if I can't remember but were you on the cnn/si boards?  We've had so many homes over the years I can't keep up with who was on what board other than a few people.  

It occurred to me the other day that it's been well over 20 years since I started posting on those boards.  Time truly does fly! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 08, 2022, 09:51:36 AM

Fearless was on those CNN boards.

I was not. 

We (CFN) inherited all you knuckleheads in 2005, around Thanksgiving.

Thankfully.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 08, 2022, 10:02:37 AM

yup, that was me.  Fearless Frankie maybe???  since Frank was still coaching in Lincoln

I started posting in late 97, just in time for the "who was better" between Michigan and Nebraska

good clean fun

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 08, 2022, 10:40:25 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 08, 2022, 09:51:36 AM

Fearless was on those CNN boards.

I was not.

We (CFN) inherited all you knuckleheads in 2005, around Thanksgiving.

Thankfully.

There were CNN/SI boards?

Man, the old internet was something

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 08, 2022, 10:41:58 AM

I think Hooky was the first one to come over. The pied piper, so to speak.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 08, 2022, 10:54:58 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on September 08, 2022, 10:40:25 AM

There were CNN/SI boards.

Man, the old internet was something

I had a new screaming Gateway computer with the fresh 56K modem!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 08, 2022, 10:55:55 AM

Yeah it was probably Hooky/JCG/OldBull/Slick/SamsungSoonert/RattlesnakeLover (I forget who his actual Husker-loving pseud was) who came over and found y'all first.

Many of us cnn/si folks were hanging out at WorldCrossing, and then the board that WingedHelmet (Michigan fan, obviously) put together. 

It's been so many years and so many boards, I don't even remember who's here now, that was original to the cnn/si boards.  I remember Gigem and FearlessFrankie, and of course who could ever forget the Husker Prick Squad (although they didn't follow us here.  Maybe a few hung out at Worldcrossing an Wingy's board?).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on September 08, 2022, 12:29:42 PM

The last board I was on before this one was Dustin R's old board.  When it went poof I didn't know where everybody went (i was never on CFN).  I did a search one day, tried different things.  College football message board, alamo message board, etc.  I even tried looking up utee94.  No luck.  Then, in a last ditch attempt, I looked up Hooky Hornstein and this is the first thing that popped up!  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 08, 2022, 12:33:21 PM

I started reading the CNN/SI boards back then, kind of lurking but rarely posting. I always got a kick out of reading Hooky Hornsteins posts. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 08, 2022, 12:36:34 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 08, 2022, 12:33:21 PM

I started reading the CNN/SI boards back then, kind of lurking but rarely posting. I always got a kick out of reading Hooky Hornsteins posts.

He was a master storyteller, no doubt about it.  I'm so glad I got to meet him in person, many times, over many years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 08, 2022, 01:01:53 PM

me too

the dude would always go out of his way to meet me whenever I visited the Austin area

glad I was able to buy him lunch the last time I saw him

he let on at that time that he was having a bit of a health issue that the Docs didn't have an answer for..... but he didn't seem overly worried and also seemed to be in good health at the time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 08, 2022, 01:15:52 PM

I'm trying to get Burny back on, but he is really not interested. Likes being unplugged.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 08, 2022, 01:17:49 PM

Yeah I got him to come around once a couple years back, but he's probably a lot better off not being on, anyway. 

These days he doesn't even come into town for the home games, so I rarely see him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 08, 2022, 01:33:20 PM

He seems to be in good spirits and always wants me to visit him when I hear from him, which isn't often

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 08, 2022, 01:44:14 PM

We will visit him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on September 08, 2022, 01:57:03 PM

Quote from: utee94 on September 08, 2022, 01:17:49 PM

Yeah I got him to come around once a couple years back, but he's probably a lot better off not being on, anyway.

These days he doesn't even come into town for the home games, so I rarely see him.

I thought he lived in TN these days?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 08, 2022, 02:01:34 PM

Quote from: Gigem on September 08, 2022, 01:57:03 PM

I thought he lived in TN these days? 

Yup, he does.  He used to come in for every home game no matter where he lived.  Now, it's pretty rare.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 08, 2022, 02:14:01 PM

He visited us when we were in Kenosha a couple of months ago. Very disgusted with the state of the Texas program right now. Doesn't even watch the games mostly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 08, 2022, 02:28:33 PM

hah, I have the same mindset regarding my fav program

it's sad

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 08, 2022, 02:36:24 PM

It hasn't been easy to be optimistic about Texas over the past decade, that's for sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 08, 2022, 02:42:36 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 08, 2022, 01:15:52 PM

I'm trying to get Burny back on, but he is really not interested. Likes being unplugged.

Don’t know him, but sounds pretty smart

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 08, 2022, 02:44:15 PM

Very smart, he is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 08, 2022, 03:37:40 PM

a smart-ass, that's for sure!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 08, 2022, 04:13:37 PM

Certainly has maintained that trait.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 08, 2022, 07:25:43 PM

so, no college football tonight???

just crappy NFL?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 08, 2022, 10:48:20 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 08, 2022, 07:25:43 PM

so, no college football tonight???

just crappy NFL?

that crappy nfl that gets 5x the tv ratings? That one? 

no tv network stupid enough to try and schedule a college game on the nfl season opener featuring the defending super bowl champs. 

cause that’s what those Thursday college games all about- just tv ratings. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 08, 2022, 10:56:42 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on September 08, 2022, 10:48:20 PM

that crappy nfl that gets 5x the tv ratings? That one?

no tv network stupid enough to try and schedule a college game on the nfl season opener featuring the defending super bowl champs.

cause that’s what those Thursday college games all about- just tv ratings.

A larger audience doesn't imply a better product.  Shit-ass Budweiser gets well over 5x the market share of actual good beer.  People like shitty products, film at 11.

But I certainly agree with your point that the television networks aren't dumb enough to go against the idiot mouth-breathing NFL fan masses.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on September 08, 2022, 11:04:35 PM

Quote from: utee94 on September 08, 2022, 02:36:24 PM

It hasn't been easy to be optimistic about Texas over the past decade, that's for sure.

At least you’ve seen the best of times in your lifetime to go along with the worst of times. Same for the Nebraska fans.  A&M seems like it’s been in a cycle of bad to mediocre to kinda good to almost great for the last 25 years. With exactly one conference title to show for it. But then I realize it could be worse. We could be Texas Tech fans. 😳

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 09, 2022, 08:24:32 AM

The problem for Texas is obvious

https://twitter.com/texaninnyc/status/1549933455022198784?s=21&t=ABf-Loq368N025Q4PciaxQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 09, 2022, 09:58:41 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/pWNQ5Yq.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 09, 2022, 09:59:16 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/vJnc4QX.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 09, 2022, 10:00:05 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/9zYwaCO.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 09, 2022, 10:06:58 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 09, 2022, 09:59:16 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/vJnc4QX.jpg)

That looks pretty good.

I've always (so far?) found the meat to bread ratio to be too small in Europe.

"Where's the Beef?" so to speak.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 09, 2022, 10:27:27 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 08, 2022, 01:15:52 PM

I'm trying to get Burny back on, but he is really not interested. Likes being unplugged.

Ya Sam has dissappeared,Anon Coward a few others but we got Mario back things looking up a little

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 09, 2022, 10:35:02 AM

mmmmm Bordeaux.  The best wine on the planet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 09, 2022, 10:38:02 AM

Anyone see this?  

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/nfl-world-reacts-to-embarrassing-stephen-a-smith-news/ar-AA11BHpS?ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=05b4bb7d9610482f96317dfb02513ac1

that Screamin' A Smith is hands down one of the biggest ill informed lampshades in the business.You'd think he might learn from osmosis from like 3 yrs back.He was critiqueing a upcoming contest between the Eagles-Rams. And he bloviates the biggest match-up of the game was between 2 guys who were injured/thru for the season. What is this yapping jackel paid for a season? yelling like someone is giving his hemmis a root canal with a Black & Decker.Have a read

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 09, 2022, 10:43:28 AM

Quote from: utee94 on September 09, 2022, 10:35:02 AM

mmmmm Bordeaux.  The best wine on the planet.

Bridgett's a Bordeaux,no?

(https://i.imgur.com/kEkgXVc.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on September 09, 2022, 11:05:39 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on September 09, 2022, 08:24:32 AM

The problem for Texas is obvious

https://twitter.com/texaninnyc/status/1549933455022198784?s=21&t=ABf-Loq368N025Q4PciaxQ

There is talk of a KOTH revival. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 09, 2022, 11:30:05 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/Lxl6iVH.jpg)

Quite impressive casual spot in small village with nice wine list including a DRC Romani Contee 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 09, 2022, 11:48:13 AM

Quote from: Gigem on September 09, 2022, 11:05:39 AM

There is talk of a KOTH revival.

Hmmm maybe there's hope for Texas after all!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 09, 2022, 11:55:09 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 09, 2022, 11:30:05 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/Lxl6iVH.jpg)

Quite impressive casual spot in small village with nice wine list including a DRC Romani Contee

Travel thread?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 09, 2022, 11:59:54 AM

Yeah my jets are lagging…

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 09, 2022, 04:16:27 PM

Anyone a member of BJ's Wholesale Club?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 09, 2022, 04:20:23 PM

Quote from: utee94 on September 09, 2022, 11:48:13 AM

Hmmm maybe there's hope for Texas after all!

It is all about the Propane and Propane accessories!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 09, 2022, 07:20:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 09, 2022, 11:30:05 AM

Quite impressive casual spot in small village with nice wine list including a DRC Romani Contee

unfortunately, not everything can be imported

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 10, 2022, 10:06:43 AM

Quote from: utee94 on September 08, 2022, 10:56:42 PM

A larger audience doesn't imply a better product.  Shit-ass Budweiser gets well over 5x the market share of actual good beer.  People like shitty products, film at 11.

But I certainly agree with your point that the television networks aren't dumb enough to go against the idiot mouth-breathing NFL fan masses.

Ha! I don’t disagree with nfl fans being mouth breathers. Plenty of cfb fans are as well though lol. 

I suspect nfl is so big mainly bc of the betting and fantasy football aspect. 

I love football, so I watch them both. I tend to like the college game better though and watch more of that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 11, 2022, 10:11:45 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 09, 2022, 10:06:58 AM

That looks pretty good.

I've always (so far?) found the meat to bread ratio to be too small in Europe.

"Where's the Beef?" so to speak.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/305929148_510935804365599_57135683696458438_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=zBHiKYoHmRkAX-Du7RS&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9Rs4xhoup-uomJwi4pPsIXXw3kHqfbYewmkjfBGfBjXw&oe=63233DCB)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 11, 2022, 10:19:20 AM

Looks like Fred's take out order in the Flintstones

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 11, 2022, 02:46:58 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on September 10, 2022, 10:06:43 AM

Ha! I don’t disagree with nfl fans being mouth breathers. Plenty of cfb fans are as well though lol.

I suspect nfl is so big mainly bc of the betting and fantasy football aspect.

I love football, so I watch them both. I tend to like the college game better though and watch more of that.

There are definitely mouth breathers in the college ranks, but the NFL fanship is still a lot more blue collar.

And I don't actually dislike the NFL product, I just find it less interesting and less compelling than the college game, despite being a physically and technically superior version of the game.  Of course, every year they seem to ruin some more of the college football tradition, make it a little more like the NFL, and consequently every year my interest in college football diminishes just a little more.

Anyway, I looked back at my response to what you said, and thought it seemed overly aggessive, and wanted to clarify.  I pretty much agree with you on all counts.

I really just wanted to take a pot-shot at Budweiser and especially pot-stirring Husker fans who drink that swill. ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 11, 2022, 06:38:36 PM

thanks

expected as usual

I can see why cowgirl fans dislike the NFL

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 11, 2022, 07:46:11 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 11, 2022, 06:38:36 PM

thanks

expected as usual

I can see why cowgirl fans dislike the NFL

Could be worse, could be a Vikings fan.  Have they ever won a Superbowl?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 11, 2022, 07:49:33 PM

nope, but they beat the fudge packers this afternoon

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 11, 2022, 07:57:11 PM

good luck vs Brady tonight

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 12, 2022, 12:20:32 AM

I was looking at the rankings.....when did MSU become a thing?  How are they that high???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 12, 2022, 01:00:18 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 12, 2022, 12:20:32 AM

I was looking at the rankings.....when did MSU become a thing?  How are they that high???

well it’s still super early so a lot of the rankings still based off last years hype- and they are coming off an 11-2 season in which they beat last years B1G champs. Plus Mel Tucker is a hot coach/name right now and he comes from that Saban tree. Plus…who you going to put ahead of them at the moment? Everyone below them aren’t exactly world beaters….

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 12, 2022, 01:02:50 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 11, 2022, 07:57:11 PM

good luck vs Brady tonight

Whole league is going to need it. 

If that’s the Leonard Fournette, defense, and Julio Tampa is going to get all year Tampa is going to be extremely tough to beat. Mike Evans, a healthy Chris Godwin, and a renewed Julio flat out is not fair. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 12, 2022, 07:11:28 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 12, 2022, 12:20:32 AM

I was looking at the rankings.....when did MSU become a thing?  How are they that high???

Name 10 teams better than them.I'd bet them vs Kentucky

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 12, 2022, 07:13:39 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on September 12, 2022, 01:02:50 AM

Whole league is going to need it.

If that’s the Leonard Fournette, defense, and Julio Tampa is going to get all year Tampa is going to be extremely tough to beat. Mike Evans, a healthy Chris Godwin, and a renewed Julio flat out is not fair.

What happened with Gisele and TB? She mad he's still taking snaps?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 12, 2022, 10:01:33 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/9hFxS5y.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/XhBowvm.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/RFB03AH.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 12, 2022, 02:04:10 PM

Tolerating mediocrity here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 12, 2022, 03:46:45 PM

You've been away awhile you'll catch up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 12, 2022, 04:25:07 PM

pretty wild stat- Tom Brady has never lost to the Cowboys in his 22 year career.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 12, 2022, 05:02:40 PM

screw that guy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 12, 2022, 05:16:41 PM

hah, the Viking's new coach took down Rogers!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 13, 2022, 05:10:17 PM

She looks happy to be with that asshole.

(https://i.imgur.com/1j0mkJp.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 13, 2022, 05:14:21 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/9g0UtzE.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on September 13, 2022, 08:34:39 PM

You wish Brett Favre had thrown his reputation down the drain on a stupid ponzi scheme, rather than stealing taxpayer money to fund a Group of Five volleyball center

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 13, 2022, 08:51:14 PM

Quote from: ELA on September 13, 2022, 08:34:39 PM

You wish Brett Favre had thrown his reputation down the drain on a stupid ponzi scheme, rather than stealing taxpayer money to fund a Group of Five volleyball center

haven't really been paying attention to that story in detail, but saw glimpses of it. Brett has to be worth north of $150 million. He could've easily wrote a check to build a volley ball center for his daughter's college lol. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on September 13, 2022, 09:36:54 PM

Nobody wants to watch volleyball played in Wranglers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 13, 2022, 09:41:48 PM

AOC says she won't be President because America hates women. LOL. Nah love, maybe America just hates you? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 13, 2022, 10:32:26 PM

Quote from: ELA on September 13, 2022, 09:36:54 PM

Nobody wants to watch volleyball played in Wranglers

Counterpoint:

(https://i.imgur.com/kRE0zNM.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Ikob5aX.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on September 14, 2022, 10:32:41 AM

Quote from: ELA on September 13, 2022, 08:34:39 PM

You wish Brett Favre had thrown his reputation down the drain on a stupid ponzi scheme, rather than stealing taxpayer money to fund a Group of Five volleyball center

I'm glad I never liked Brett Favre. Over the years I've met a number of casual NFL fans who began watching the sport because of Brett Favre, and I always wondered how so many people fell for his carefree facade. Favre's self-centeredness has only become more apparent, from the way he held the Packers hostage with every retirement non-decision, to cheating on his wife, to now defrauding the state of Mississippi.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 14, 2022, 01:57:33 PM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on September 14, 2022, 10:32:41 AM

I'm glad I never liked Brett Favre. Over the years I've met a number of casual NFL fans who began watching the sport because of Brett Favre, and I always wondered how so many people fell for his carefree facade. Favre's self-centeredness has only become more apparent, from the way he held the Packers hostage with every retirement non-decision, to cheating on his wife, to now defrauding the state of Mississippi.

He's not unlike Lance Armstrong in some ways.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on September 14, 2022, 02:22:50 PM

https://twitter.com/JimMWeber/status/1570079887813140486?t=VAUB9vA6QEp6L4agH3ikIA&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 14, 2022, 08:30:02 PM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on September 14, 2022, 10:32:41 AM

I'm glad I never liked Brett Favre. Over the years I've met a number of casual NFL fans who began watching the sport because of Brett Favre, and I always wondered how so many people fell for his carefree facade. Favre's self-centeredness has only become more apparent, from the way he held the Packers hostage with every retirement non-decision, to cheating on his wife, to now defrauding the state of Mississippi.

And don't forget his peddling of copperfit garbage!  That may be the worst of them all!  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 14, 2022, 08:31:58 PM

being a Packer is obviously the worst

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 14, 2022, 10:16:22 PM

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/chicago-s-richest-man-taking-his-22-billion-company-to-florida-for-one-surprising-reason/ar-AA107WKW?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=e6e9d05abd0a42ab8d993dba6bd6bb19 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/chicago-s-richest-man-taking-his-22-billion-company-to-florida-for-one-surprising-reason/ar-AA107WKW?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=e6e9d05abd0a42ab8d993dba6bd6bb19)

Ken Griffin, a hedge fund manager worth almost $29 billion, has already moved himself and his family to Florida. And recently, he released a memo to employees that his $22 billion firm, Citadel Securities, would also move its headquarters there.

While the trend of companies moving from high-tax states like California, Illinois, and New York to lower-tax, business-friendly states like Texas and Florida is nothing new, one factor in the decision is potentially concerning for the future of Chicago's business climate.

Citadel officials cited crime as one critical reason for the move. According to a report, over the last few years, there have been multiple incidents involving Citadel employees. Ken Griffin himself experienced an attempted carjacking, a Citadel employee was stabbed while walking to work, and there have been numerous reports of shootings, riots, and looting near some employees' homes.

Ken Griffin has been outspoken about how crime has affected his employees. In a recent interview, he said, “if people aren't safe here, they're not going to live here. I've had multiple colleagues mugged at gunpoint. I've had a colleague stabbed on the way to work, countless issues of burglary. I mean, that's a really difficult backdrop with which to draw talent to your city from.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on September 14, 2022, 11:42:37 PM

Quote from: utee94 on September 13, 2022, 10:32:26 PM

Counterpoint:

[img width=273.429 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/kRE0zNM.jpg[/img]

[img width=273.429 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/Ikob5aX.jpg[/img]

Somebody get Brett some scissors

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 15, 2022, 07:00:52 AM

Quote from: ELA on September 13, 2022, 08:34:39 PM

You wish Brett Favre had thrown his reputation down the drain on a stupid ponzi scheme, rather than stealing taxpayer money to fund a Group of Five volleyball center

Didn't hear about this what'd the AHole do?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 15, 2022, 07:20:59 AM

My first time with consistently bad food in France 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 15, 2022, 07:53:42 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 14, 2022, 10:16:22 PM

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/chicago-s-richest-man-taking-his-22-billion-company-to-florida-for-one-surprising-reason/ar-AA107WKW?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=e6e9d05abd0a42ab8d993dba6bd6bb19 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/chicago-s-richest-man-taking-his-22-billion-company-to-florida-for-one-surprising-reason/ar-AA107WKW?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=e6e9d05abd0a42ab8d993dba6bd6bb19)

Ken Griffin, a hedge fund manager worth almost $29 billion, has already moved himself and his family to Florida. And recently, he released a memo to employees that his $22 billion firm, Citadel Securities, would also move its headquarters there.

While the trend of companies moving from high-tax states like California, Illinois, and New York to lower-tax, business-friendly states like Texas and Florida is nothing new, one factor in the decision is potentially concerning for the future of Chicago's business climate.

Citadel officials cited crime as one critical reason for the move. According to a report, over the last few years, there have been multiple incidents involving Citadel employees. Ken Griffin himself experienced an attempted carjacking, a Citadel employee was stabbed while walking to work, and there have been numerous reports of shootings, riots, and looting near some employees' homes.

Ken Griffin has been outspoken about how crime has affected his employees. In a recent interview, he said, “if people aren't safe here, they're not going to live here. I've had multiple colleagues mugged at gunpoint. I've had a colleague stabbed on the way to work, countless issues of burglary. I mean, that's a really difficult backdrop with which to draw talent to your city from.”

Ken Griffin is a good man. We had the pleasure of meeting him at a dinner in support of the previous governor, Bruce Rauner.

Speaking of... he also sold his Chicago homes and moved to Florida. Mostly a philanthropist now, and we're glad he's here.

That City and the State it's in has a very bleak future. Rauner was its last chance.

On Griffin...

There is a very worthy cause going on in Chicago right now call Project Hood. Look it up when you find time. We recently contributed to it, but not like Mr. Griffin.

We gave $1000.00. He gave $5 MILLION.

Project H.O.O.D. (projecthood.org) (https://www.projecthood.org/)
Project H.O.O.D. (projecthood.org) (https://www.projecthood.org/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 15, 2022, 08:24:23 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 15, 2022, 07:20:59 AM

My first time with consistently bad food in France

To what do you attribute this?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 15, 2022, 10:18:26 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 15, 2022, 07:20:59 AM

My first time with consistently bad food in France

Our hearts go out to ya

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on September 15, 2022, 12:27:35 PM

Every time I see the mayor of Chicago all I can think about is Beetlegeuise. She looks really weird. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on September 15, 2022, 12:29:28 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/VVscEBh.jpg)

No doubt the picture on the left is altered, but still…

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on September 15, 2022, 12:31:27 PM

Saw a blurb on the national news this morning about the immigrants being bussed to Chicago, DC, and other non-traditional immigrant states. You want sanctuary cities, you got it. 

Cry me a River. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on September 15, 2022, 02:33:32 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/Q67E84y.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 15, 2022, 03:54:49 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on September 15, 2022, 10:18:26 AM

Our hearts go out to ya

Not enough folks eat sammichs over the sink - that's a problem right there,Ambiance

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 15, 2022, 04:14:21 PM

Quote from: Gigem on September 15, 2022, 12:31:27 PM

Saw a blurb on the national news this morning about the immigrants being bussed to Chicago, DC, and other non-traditional immigrant states. You want sanctuary cities, you got it.

Cry me a River.

martha's vineyard

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 15, 2022, 04:56:01 PM

Sending them to Obama's home,he has a 14 million dollar waterfront home - so much for the ocean's rising.He's pulling the strings behind the scenes - no doubt about it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 15, 2022, 05:25:17 PM

Nah. His home is about 20 feet above sea level, and he's behind a barrier island too. Should be fine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 15, 2022, 06:12:18 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 15, 2022, 05:25:17 PM

Nah. His home is about 20 feet above sea level, and he's behind a barrier island too. Should be fine.

gee, where did a community organizer who never held a real job in his life and only made $400k a year if that in his guv-ment job get the scratch to buy $20 million home on 30 acres in one of the richest neighborhoods in 'Merica. 

have to love high level federal guv-ment in 'Merica. take care of the big $$$$ interests when you're in office- and they'll take care of your ass soon as you get out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 15, 2022, 06:16:45 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on September 15, 2022, 07:00:52 AM

Didn't hear about this what'd the AHole do?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4K83Mk1ZII

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 15, 2022, 08:46:51 PM

FFS,put him in Lucasville

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 15, 2022, 08:56:29 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on September 15, 2022, 06:12:18 PM

gee, where did a community organizer who never held a real job in his life and only made $400k a year if that in his guv-ment job get the scratch to buy $20 million home on 30 acres in one of the richest neighborhoods in 'Merica.

have to love high level federal guv-ment in 'Merica. take care of the big $$$$ interests when you're in office- and they'll take care of your ass soon as you get out.

Same way Dick Cheney weaseled out of serving in Vietnam yet got billions later in defense contracts.In Iraq/Afghanistan

But just how Cheney got rich deserves some scrutiny. As secretary of defense, Cheney oversaw one of the largest privatization efforts in the history of the Pentagon, steering millions of military dollars to civilian contractors. Two and a half years after Cheney left his federal job, he began cashing in on the very contracts that he helped initiate.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 16, 2022, 12:17:57 AM

Quote from: Gigem on September 15, 2022, 12:31:27 PM

Saw a blurb on the national news this morning about the immigrants being bussed to Chicago, DC, and other non-traditional immigrant states. You want sanctuary cities, you got it.

Cry me a River.

That stunt is really a rather gloomy look into the future of our national dialogue.

Ahh well, we’ll be fed the anger-filled amusement we desire. 

(And before someone reads that wrong, I’ve no beef with immigrants ending up in cities that are held up for narrative purposes, nor would I be if they landed in cities that weren’t)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on September 16, 2022, 05:13:56 AM

Martha’s Vineyard, population 17K, had 50 illegal immigrants dropped off.

Del Rio, TX, population just under 35K, has had 50K illegal immigrants this year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 16, 2022, 08:04:22 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on September 16, 2022, 12:17:57 AM

That stunt is really a rather gloomy look into the future of our national dialogue.

Ahh well, we’ll be fed the anger-filled amusement we desire.

(And before someone reads that wrong, I’ve no beef with immigrants ending up in cities that are held up for narrative purposes, nor would I be if they landed in cities that weren’t)

It's not a stunt. It's a message, and it's unfortunate. I don't like it, but I completely get it.

None of those (terrible) leaders up North care about the border until a bus shows up, and then they bitch about the governors of Texas, Florida and Arizona?

They should be bitching at the true cause! Maybe take a trip down to witness what's happening? Or just welcome them into your supposed sanctuary chitty with open arms?

The Border Czar doesn't seem to have any ideas. I heard her just this past weekend state (with a straight face) that the border is secure.

In the case of Chicago, the mayor (for now) immediately had the last bus shipped to a conservative wealthy suburb - also without warning.

Hypocrisy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 16, 2022, 08:05:05 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on September 15, 2022, 06:12:18 PM

gee, where did a community organizer who never held a real job in his life and only made $400k a year if that in his guv-ment job get the scratch to buy $20 million home on 30 acres in one of the richest neighborhoods in 'Merica.

have to love high level federal guv-ment in 'Merica. take care of the big $$$$ interests when you're in office- and they'll take care of your ass soon as you get out.

Yep, and it happens on both sides.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on September 16, 2022, 10:43:29 AM

I'll admit I didn't have "Sitting governor publicly bragging about 54 counts of conspiracy to kidnap" on my 2022 bingo card.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 16, 2022, 10:46:14 AM

Kidnap?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 16, 2022, 10:49:25 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on September 16, 2022, 10:43:29 AM

I'll admit I didn't have "Sitting governor publicly bragging about 54 counts of conspiracy to kidnap" on my 2022 bingo card.

Ha!

I also didn't have "Crowd-funded bombers in a war zone" for 2022, but sure enough, it's happening in Ukraine.

Crazy times we live in.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 16, 2022, 11:05:05 AM

I'll take $6.99 for ground beef, Alex.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on September 16, 2022, 11:12:35 AM

Quote from: utee94 on September 16, 2022, 10:49:25 AM

Ha!

I also didn't have "Crowd-funded bombers in a war zone" for 2022, but sure enough, it's happening in Ukraine.

Crazy times we live in.

Touche. I don't think either of us had "Russian army exposed as paper tigers" either.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 16, 2022, 11:16:44 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on September 16, 2022, 11:12:35 AM

Touche. I don't think either of us had "Russian army exposed as paper tigers" either.

I actually thought they might be. A good number of their soldiers didn't even want to be there, which was evident from the start.

Now if we could only stop funding the war and take care of our own!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 16, 2022, 12:10:09 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 16, 2022, 08:04:22 AM

It's not a stunt. It's a message, and it's unfortunate. I don't like it, but I completely get it.

None of those (terrible) leaders up North care about the border until a bus shows up, and then they bitch about the governors of Texas, Florida and Arizona?

They should be bitching at the true cause! Maybe take a trip down to witness what's happening? Or just welcome them into your supposed sanctuary chitty with open arms?

....

In the case of Chicago, the mayor (for now) immediately had the last bus shipped to a conservative wealthy suburb - also without warning.

Hypocrisy.

If it's a message, it's not one aimed at the other side. Let's put it this way, if some folks in opposition to you tried to send a message that way, there's not much chance it would resonate, most likely it would harden you. 

In another sense, you point out, this hasn't actually triggered much response of "Oh God, now these illegals are here." The complaint has been "Wow, that's a gross, weird stunt." In some cases, they have been welcomed (we'll get to Chicago later). It does nothing to change people's thoughts on the border. At all. And if it did, it wouldn't do so in two days.

Now, this is in some ways a message to the base. It gives the base some har hars. A chance to sort of jump the gun about the response and remember that we'll be fed "we'll fight for you" culture war slop going forward. And the other side will almost assuredly do the same, thus dividing us all for the mirthful fun of it.

The Chicago part is quite illustrative. Sending more illegals to Chicago is ... theater and little else. The city/region has plenty of illegal immigrants. Just about no one in that city is saying "Oh gosh, someone from the other side of the border, never seen one of them." (No one who's gonna see the new group anyway) It's just theater to give the base a chance to chuckle at a juvenile burn. The Mayor proved she's not above such juvenile things. She did her own stunt. And the only message it sent was that the person organizing that busing to the burbs is a real asshole (which she is!). 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 16, 2022, 12:13:14 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 16, 2022, 11:16:44 AM

I actually thought they might be. A good number of their soldiers didn't even want to be there, which was evident from the start.

Now if we could only stop funding the war and take care of our own!

I was having a convo with a friend's husband who served. Had some interesting thoughts on some of our adversaries projecting much more power than they really have, not unlike Russia. 

Russia being run by a kleptocracy is a bad recipe for a competent military, granted, there aren't many of those around, pound for pound. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 16, 2022, 12:15:04 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on September 16, 2022, 10:43:29 AM

I'll admit I didn't have "Sitting governor publicly bragging about 54 counts of conspiracy to kidnap" on my 2022 bingo card.

Well that there is a bit of wishcasting. We'd do well to tone it down. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 16, 2022, 01:45:56 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on September 16, 2022, 12:15:04 PM

Well that there is a bit of wishcasting. We'd do well to tone it down.

That there is pure, one sided, blind to reality- go my team- thinking.  

unless shipping THOUSANDS of illegal immigrants by bus and train, under cover of darkness in the middle of the night- to Florida and Pennsylvania, etc- is also kidnapping. The big differences of course are one is being hidden and one is being done transparently with an approved legal budget.  

Well, that and the fact that those communities now receiving them- the Martha’s vineyards of our world- are 80 plus % white, but are the loudest voices screaming about diversity.  Funny how they have completely changed their tune when the rubber has met the road.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 16, 2022, 01:48:53 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on September 16, 2022, 12:10:09 PM

If it's a message, it's not one aimed at the other side. Let's put it this way, if some folks in opposition to you tried to send a message that way, there's not much chance it would resonate, most likely it would harden you.

It's a response, actually. I worded that poorly.

Is it OK for the White House to fly illegal immigrants all over the country? Because they are and continue to do so - including to Florida. And I'll get to Florida in another post, because we have a real problem here and do not need more.

Anyway, if it is OK for the White House to fly illegals everywhere, then what the Governors are doing in response is OK.

Yes?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 16, 2022, 01:55:55 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on September 16, 2022, 12:13:14 PM

I was having a convo with a friend's husband who served. Had some interesting thoughts on some of our adversaries projecting much more power than they really have, not unlike Russia.

Russia being run by a kleptocracy is a bad recipe for a competent military, granted, there aren't many of those around, pound for pound.

By all accounts morale in that military is rock bottom.

Russia can't win without doing the unthinkable. And I would not put it past that asshole to do it on his way out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 18, 2022, 07:12:17 AM

Scary stuff in news here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on September 18, 2022, 07:20:54 AM

Here’s scary…

Dugin: WW3 is coming.

Mhttps://www.theamericanconservative.com/dugin-world-war-3-is-coming/ (https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dugin-world-war-3-is-coming/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 18, 2022, 08:32:49 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 18, 2022, 07:12:17 AM

Scary stuff in news here

Such as?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 18, 2022, 11:28:55 AM

Fear of the desperate Bear

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 18, 2022, 12:59:39 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 16, 2022, 01:48:53 PM

It's a response, actually. I worded that poorly.

Is it OK for the White House to fly illegal immigrants all over the country? Because they are and continue to do so - including to Florida. And I'll get to Florida in another post, because we have a real problem here and do not need more.

Anyway, if it is OK for the White House to fly illegals everywhere, then what the Governors are doing in response is OK.

Yes?

I can't help but think if the roles were reversed, you'd change your mind on most every political point you make.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 18, 2022, 04:37:19 PM

True for most

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 18, 2022, 06:17:27 PM

YOU PLAY TO GET FIRED AFTER LOSING TO EASTERN MICHIGAN!!!
(https://i.imgur.com/DZpIqGj.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 19, 2022, 08:01:34 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 18, 2022, 12:59:39 PM

I can't help but think if the roles were reversed, you'd change your mind on most every political point you make. 

You could only wish that the roles would be reversed here. LMAO. Rule of law much?

I'm all about the Constitution. Whoever defends it is A-OK with me.

You should read it when you find some time.

It's pretty great and not that long.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 21, 2022, 01:27:57 PM

FORE!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 21, 2022, 03:52:27 PM

Man, the S&P has been all over the place today.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 21, 2022, 03:56:31 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 21, 2022, 03:52:27 PM

Man, the S&P has been all over the place today. 

Fed is on a path to raise rates to the “ restrictive “ level.  They are going hard after inflation.  They already killed the surplus supply side- now they are moving to kill demand.  Going to be rough for consumers and small businesses 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 21, 2022, 04:05:08 PM

I have two boats, one of which is for sale, and I think I'm going have two boats for a long time coming.

Nobody is gonna buy a boat in this environment.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 21, 2022, 04:12:32 PM

There will be buyers starting Nov 9th

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 21, 2022, 04:15:45 PM

I'm guessing not. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 21, 2022, 05:21:23 PM

2008 Cobalt 242. 300 hours, lots of recent service. Very clean.

Any takers?

(https://i.imgur.com/bXefPSy.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ZMXjDV0.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/qd0NWsk.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/s7kI6kk.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 21, 2022, 08:48:27 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on September 21, 2022, 03:56:31 PM

Fed is on a path to raise rates to the “ restrictive “ level.  They are going hard after inflation.  They already killed the surplus supply side- now they are moving to kill demand.  Going to be rough for consumers and small businesses

Makes zero sense what they are doing imo. Inflation has been out of control due to the complete collapse of world wide supply chains because: China- followed immediately by insane asinine sanctions/embargo/trade war with Russia- the worlds largest exporter of natural gas, fertilizer, grain, and the worlds second largest exporter of oil. No big deal- you know- just all the very most essential things the world needs to like...live...and have actual functioning societies and economies.

Instead of US gov't getting real on the China problem and passing legislation to accelerate the pivoting of supply chains out of China they do basically nothing. And instead of trying to use diplomacy TO END THE WAR in Ukraine- US keeps egging the world on to basically go full trade war with one of the most important countries on planet earth while they constantly without any question or opposition from either party- pump countless tens of billions into Ukraine to prolong death and destruction- where huge % of that US taxpayer money is just getting stolen by a corrupt bureaucracy- and we're suppose to sit here and pretend like everything is cool. Lol.

Let's not try to do anything about those problems though- let's just continue on this path and keep raising interest rates and try to squeeze consumers and small business with interest raise hikes and increased taxes. Lol. The people running this country at the highest levels truly are the enemy of the people of the United States.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 21, 2022, 08:54:59 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 21, 2022, 05:21:23 PM

2008 Cobalt 242. 300 hours, lots of recent service. Very clean.

Any takers?

I'm love to but,...
way too much boat for the farm ponds near me
or the muddy Mo

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on September 22, 2022, 07:59:30 AM

On a long term scale interest rates are not that high. They have been fairly low to abnormally low for most of this century. 

(https://i.imgur.com/5sJRCiH.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 22, 2022, 09:11:03 AM

agreed

but, that doesn't mean higher interest rates will help the economy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 22, 2022, 10:15:27 AM

https://twitter.com/PaigeSpiranac/status/1572667048819585025?s=20&t=N-TNYteC_6IrP25AoNpVTg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 22, 2022, 10:16:20 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 22, 2022, 09:11:03 AM

agreed

but, that doesn't mean higher interest rates will help the economy

yup

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 22, 2022, 10:37:21 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 22, 2022, 09:11:03 AM

agreed

but, that doesn't mean higher interest rates will help the economy

In the short term, the economy is gonna suck.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 22, 2022, 11:36:08 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 22, 2022, 10:15:27 AM

https://twitter.com/PaigeSpiranac/status/1572667048819585025?s=20&t=N-TNYteC_6IrP25AoNpVTg

I find myself transfixed……. What was she saying?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 22, 2022, 11:37:55 AM

she hates Domers!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on September 22, 2022, 12:29:43 PM

Hard to get your mind off her domers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on September 22, 2022, 01:08:09 PM

Good thing San Diego State sucks

A University of Utah student was arrested Wednesday after she allegedly threatened to detonate a nuclear reactor on campus if the Utes football team had lost to San Diego State over the weekend, according to radio station KSL in Utah.

According to the Salt Lake County Sheriff's Office, the 21-year-old student is accused of making a threat of terrorism. She was booked and released Wednesday.

The woman allegedly posted on social media that, if the Utes lost Saturday's game, she would "detonate the nuclear reactor that is located in the University of Utah causing a mass destruction," according to a police affidavit obtained by KSL. Police said in the affidavit that the woman had information about the reactor and had attended classes in the same building it is located.

Utah defeated San Diego State 35-7 on Saturday, as quarterback Cam Rising threw for 224 yards and four touchdown passes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 22, 2022, 01:14:47 PM

she seems perfectly reasonable to me

she did warn them

its important to know what things are truly important in life

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 22, 2022, 03:33:26 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 21, 2022, 05:21:23 PM

2008 Cobalt 242. 300 hours, lots of recent service. Very clean.

Any takers?

(https://i.imgur.com/bXefPSy.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ZMXjDV0.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/qd0NWsk.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/s7kI6kk.jpg)

I'm prepared to make an all cash offer. $5.99. Take it or leave it. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 22, 2022, 03:34:29 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 22, 2022, 03:33:26 PM

I'm prepared to make an all cash offer. $5.99. Take it or leave it. :)

I accept your offer of $5.99 for all of those pictures. I will even throw in a couple more!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 22, 2022, 03:36:47 PM

I couldn't afford the gasoline

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 22, 2022, 03:39:44 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t45.1600-4/305604530_23851672527840700_1171799804273623562_n.png?stp=cp0_dst-jpg_p526x296_q90_spS444&_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=67cdda&_nc_ohc=w4khBLuCs9MAX_0tir0&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9JhBc2cpkzJ5NYgf6qV_gGTg8TF2UWZq8vLL6-KeSLZg&oe=6330BBDB)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 22, 2022, 04:02:00 PM

Denver and Salt Lake stick out on that list.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 22, 2022, 04:10:30 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 22, 2022, 03:34:29 PM

I accept your offer of $5.99 for all of those pictures. I will even throw in a couple more!!

:singing:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 22, 2022, 04:40:53 PM

I mean, it's nice to see Texas represent with Dallas and Houston, but Atlanta WOW!  That's a true feat...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 22, 2022, 04:49:47 PM

How stupid do you have to be to have a gun when going through security at an airport

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 22, 2022, 04:56:02 PM

ask Barry Sweatshirt

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 22, 2022, 04:56:19 PM

honestly thought Miami airport would be on this list or near the top...kinda disappointed...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 22, 2022, 04:57:40 PM

obviously, you're not doing your part

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 22, 2022, 05:03:00 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on September 22, 2022, 04:49:47 PM

How stupid do you have to be to have a gun when going through security at an airport

How smart do you have to be to purchase a gun?

Apparently just breathing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 22, 2022, 05:37:33 PM

I'd put that on the seller but, this is a capitalists' economy

baby needs new shoes 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 22, 2022, 05:44:55 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/308012023_809551333799902_3400098636034208018_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=0Ok8icnfNyYAX8gvxfF&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_2_dTtFczwcuT-udpMj000B11J29-G-7HaD4eXYC4Uig&oe=6331E08B)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 22, 2022, 08:09:55 PM

I see one sea and 24 lakes.

The Great Slave Lake?  Where the hell is that?  Bravvos?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 23, 2022, 06:39:54 AM

Quote from: ELA on September 22, 2022, 01:08:09 PM

Good thing San Diego State sucks

A University of Utah student was arrested Wednesday after she allegedly threatened to detonate a nuclear reactor on campus if the Utes football team had lost to San Diego State over the weekend, according to radio station KSL in Utah.

According to the Salt Lake County Sheriff's Office, the 21-year-old student is accused of making a threat of terrorism. She was booked and released Wednesday.

The woman allegedly posted on social media that, if the Utes lost Saturday's game, she would "detonate the nuclear reactor that is located in the University of Utah causing a mass destruction," according to a police affidavit obtained by KSL. Police said in the affidavit that the woman had information about the reactor and had attended classes in the same building it is located.

Utah defeated San Diego State 35-7 on Saturday, as quarterback Cam Rising threw for 224 yards and four touchdown passes.

The people who arrested this woman are extremely stupid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 23, 2022, 09:21:47 AM

funhaters with no sense of humor

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 23, 2022, 09:23:45 AM

Sounds reasonable
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/MzId7vT7YOUzm/200.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on September 23, 2022, 09:46:54 AM

Quote from: ELA on September 22, 2022, 01:08:09 PM

Good thing San Diego State sucks

A University of Utah student was arrested Wednesday after she allegedly threatened to detonate a nuclear reactor on campus if the Utes football team had lost to San Diego State over the weekend, according to radio station KSL in Utah.

According to the Salt Lake County Sheriff's Office, the 21-year-old student is accused of making a threat of terrorism. She was booked and released Wednesday.

The woman allegedly posted on social media that, if the Utes lost Saturday's game, she would "detonate the nuclear reactor that is located in the University of Utah causing a mass destruction," according to a police affidavit obtained by KSL. Police said in the affidavit that the woman had information about the reactor and had attended classes in the same building it is located.

Utah defeated San Diego State 35-7 on Saturday, as quarterback Cam Rising threw for 224 yards and four touchdown passes.

Bit of a pet-peeve of mine.  People don't know jack squat about nuclear power plants.  I see more and more evidence to that fact almost every day.

1)  The University of Utah reactor is an extremely small one.  It is more of a test reactor for teaching purposes.  There is literally no containment vessel around it because it can never get hot enough to actually boil water.  I'm not even certain you could do anything that would cause something catastrophic.

2)  Even if it was a full scale sized plant, you can not "detonate" a nuclear power plant.  There is no condition that you can set in a nuclear power plant to that will ever result in the mushroom cloud explosion of a nuclear bomb.  The worst you can possibly hope to achieve is for a nuclear meltdown, which means that the control rods system has failed to the point where the uranium fuel rods have increased above the temperature of their melting point.  If the water that the uranium fuel rods are heating create enough steam pressure to burst the containment vessel, then you can achieve the worst case scenario (ie, Chernobyl) where that radioactive material can be launched outward.

3)  There is not a button in the nuclear power plant that you push that has the words "initiate meltdown" written on it.  It takes a very specific set of steps in order to achieve a meltdown (especially here in the US) and they involve bypassing DOZENS of safety systems that are there to specifically prevent it.  We are talking about a combination of steps including bypassing circuits in the control room, manually locking water valves, and sabotaging piping (aka breaking them) in order to achieve this.  I'm not sure it's even possible to do as a single person.  I'm pretty sure you would need one person in the control room while the other goes around sabotaging valves / pipes. 

Also, as a note.  Most nuclear power plants (though admittedly probably not the one in Utah), have an armed SWAT team on standby on site.  Even if you do manage to breach security enough to get access to the control room, you've got about two minutes before you are ventilated.  Good luck with that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on September 23, 2022, 09:50:31 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 22, 2022, 08:09:55 PM

I see one sea and 24 lakes.

The Great Slave Lake?  Where the hell is that?  Bravvos?

It's up in Canada.  It's actually the location for a couple of seasons for the survivalist show Alone on the History Channel.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 23, 2022, 10:06:02 AM

Quote from: grillrat on September 23, 2022, 09:46:54 AM

 Most nuclear power plants (though admittedly probably not the one in Utah), have an armed SWAT team on standby on site.  Even if you do manage to breach security enough to get access to the control room, you've got about two minutes before you are ventilated.  Good luck with that.

"ventilated" - I like that maybe they should try that when congress is in session,eliminate a lot of problems right there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 23, 2022, 10:18:35 AM

you could get in trouble with threats like that

funhaters - no sense of humor

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 23, 2022, 10:20:55 AM

Quote from: grillrat on September 23, 2022, 09:46:54 AM

Bit of a pet-peeve of mine.  People don't know jack squat about nuclear power plants.  I see more and more evidence to that fact almost every day.

1)  The University of Utah reactor is an extremely small one.  It is more of a test reactor for teaching purposes.  There is literally no containment vessel around it because it can never get hot enough to actually boil water.  I'm not even certain you could do anything that would cause something catastrophic.

2)  Even if it was a full scale sized plant, you can not "detonate" a nuclear power plant.  There is no condition that you can set in a nuclear power plant to that will ever result in the mushroom cloud explosion of a nuclear bomb.  The worst you can possibly hope to achieve is for a nuclear meltdown, which means that the control rods system has failed to the point where the uranium fuel rods have increased above the temperature of their melting point.  If the water that the uranium fuel rods are heating create enough steam pressure to burst the containment vessel, then you can achieve the worst case scenario (ie, Chernobyl) where that radioactive material can be launched outward.

3)  There is not a button in the nuclear power plant that you push that has the words "initiate meltdown" written on it.  It takes a very specific set of steps in order to achieve a meltdown (especially here in the US) and they involve bypassing DOZENS of safety systems that are there to specifically prevent it.  We are talking about a combination of steps including bypassing circuits in the control room, manually locking water valves, and sabotaging piping (aka breaking them) in order to achieve this.  I'm not sure it's even possible to do as a single person.  I'm pretty sure you would need one person in the control room while the other goes around sabotaging valves / pipes. 

Also, as a note.  Most nuclear power plants (though admittedly probably not the one in Utah), have an armed SWAT team on standby on site.  Even if you do manage to breach security enough to get access to the control room, you've got about two minutes before you are ventilated.  Good luck with that.

Great post!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 23, 2022, 10:27:06 AM

All I know about nuclear power plants is that they can blow up like Hiroshima and make a lot of mess.

Interesting aside, I used to use a chemistry instrument called an "NMR", very useful technique, it stands for "Nuclear Magnetic Resonance".  It's the same thing we now call "MRI", vastly improved over what I had, but note how they changed the term.  It's easier than explaining to worried folks the term "nuclear".   

I got really interested in it as a grad student though my boss was not in favor of the work, it ended up being pretty interesting.  He finally agreed to publish.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on September 23, 2022, 10:35:48 AM

Quote from: grillrat on September 23, 2022, 09:46:54 AM

Bit of a pet-peeve of mine.  People don't know jack squat about nuclear power plants.  I see more and more evidence to that fact almost every day.

1)  The University of Utah reactor is an extremely small one.  It is more of a test reactor for teaching purposes.  There is literally no containment vessel around it because it can never get hot enough to actually boil water.  I'm not even certain you could do anything that would cause something catastrophic.

2)  Even if it was a full scale sized plant, you can not "detonate" a nuclear power plant.  There is no condition that you can set in a nuclear power plant to that will ever result in the mushroom cloud explosion of a nuclear bomb.  The worst you can possibly hope to achieve is for a nuclear meltdown, which means that the control rods system has failed to the point where the uranium fuel rods have increased above the temperature of their melting point.  If the water that the uranium fuel rods are heating create enough steam pressure to burst the containment vessel, then you can achieve the worst case scenario (ie, Chernobyl) where that radioactive material can be launched outward.

3)  There is not a button in the nuclear power plant that you push that has the words "initiate meltdown" written on it.  It takes a very specific set of steps in order to achieve a meltdown (especially here in the US) and they involve bypassing DOZENS of safety systems that are there to specifically prevent it.  We are talking about a combination of steps including bypassing circuits in the control room, manually locking water valves, and sabotaging piping (aka breaking them) in order to achieve this.  I'm not sure it's even possible to do as a single person.  I'm pretty sure you would need one person in the control room while the other goes around sabotaging valves / pipes. 

Also, as a note.  Most nuclear power plants (though admittedly probably not the one in Utah), have an armed SWAT team on standby on site.  Even if you do manage to breach security enough to get access to the control room, you've got about two minutes before you are ventilated.  Good luck with that.

Um, have you ever watched literally any 90s action movie?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on September 23, 2022, 11:27:13 AM

Quote from: ELA on September 23, 2022, 10:35:48 AM

Um, have you ever watched literally any 90s action movie?

Yup.  The media / Hollywood is 90% responsible for 99% of the stupid things about nuclear power / radiation that people believe.

I've said it before on several sites, but I'm not sure if I've said it here:

The next time you want to prove to someone that they don't know jack squat about nuclear power:  Ask them what color nuclear waste is.
(Hint, it is not a viscous glow-in-the-dark lime green liquid).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 23, 2022, 11:30:07 AM

In related news, the view of the US by some average Frenchman is about 98% derived from Hollywood.  I get asked some weird questions pretty often.

This of course is the country with the greatest percentage of electricity generated by nukes in the world by far.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 23, 2022, 11:32:13 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 23, 2022, 11:30:07 AM

This of course is the country with the greatest percentage of electricity generated by nukes in the world by far.

They're not wrong there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on September 23, 2022, 11:40:32 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 23, 2022, 11:30:07 AM

This of course is the country with the greatest percentage of electricity generated by nukes in the world by far.

I don't think that is right.  I think we have the maybe the highest overall amount of energy created by nuclear power plants, but as a percentage, it is only about 20% of our total power generation.

France is like 70%.  A bunch of European countries are in the 50% range.  We are probably top 20, but nowhere near the greatest.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 23, 2022, 11:44:41 AM

I was talking about France, but my post was unclear.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 23, 2022, 11:45:54 AM

• United States - 91.5GW
• France - 61.3GW
• China - 50.8GW
• Japan - 31.7GW
• Russia - 29.6GW
• South Korea - 24.5GW
• Canada - 13.6GW
• Ukraine - 13.1GW
• United Kingdom - 8.9GW
• Spain - 7.1GW

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on September 23, 2022, 11:47:35 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 23, 2022, 11:44:41 AM

I was talking about France, but my post was unclear.

Ah.  Gotcha.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 23, 2022, 12:06:42 PM

maybe the main reason I don't watch movies

bullshit - not even close to believable

no credibility 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 23, 2022, 12:15:23 PM

I don't expect movies to be "realistic", a rare exception or three exists.  A lot of folks do, at least subliminally.

It's a bit like how the news can show a riot in a city at times and it's really a pretty small affair and most of the city is not impacted, or how they show Tenderloin district in SF and folks think the entire city is like that.

I watched the new Top Gun on the plane, it's entertaining, but of course entirely unrealistic.  My wife had a friend come to France for part of the trip and he went on and on about how great it was, so realistic he said.  I try and avoid interacting with him.  He was really embarrassing, to me, being among all those French folks.  He doesn't speak a lick of French, and would talk to them even though few of them speak English, and he'd raise his voice when they didn't understand and repeat it.  Even my wife was a bit dismayed.

My step son in law had repeated a bunch of nonsense he claimed he got from the movie about climate change as if it was real and accurate ( much of it isn't at all).

I saw previews for a couple movies suggesting climate change would raise sea levels by hundreds of feet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 23, 2022, 12:18:51 PM

Quote from: grillrat on September 23, 2022, 11:27:13 AM

Yup.  The media / Hollywood is 90% responsible for 99% of the stupid things about nuclear power / radiation that people believe.

I've said it before on several sites, but I'm not sure if I've said it here:

The next time you want to prove to someone that they don't know jack squat about nuclear power:  Ask them what color nuclear waste is.
(Hint, it is not a viscous glow-in-the-dark lime green liquid).

Everything I know about nuclear power plants, I learned from The Simpsons.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 23, 2022, 12:21:21 PM

I get enough reality from reality.  I don't give a rat's ass how realistic a movie might be.

I'm not always entertained by various movies, but I certainly don't hold them up to some standard of realism.   If I'm not entertained, it's generally due to poor direction, poor script-writing, poor acting, or the actors not being attractive enough.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 23, 2022, 12:44:35 PM

why prefer comedies

I know they are just silliness

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 23, 2022, 12:47:31 PM

Quote from: utee94 on September 23, 2022, 12:18:51 PM

Everything I know about nuclear power plants, I learned from The Simpsons.

(https://i.imgflip.com/wslr8.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 23, 2022, 12:51:14 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 23, 2022, 12:44:35 PM

why prefer comedies

I know they are just silliness

Comedies are cool too.  But I genuinely like a good, unrealistic action movie.  Top Gun 2 was great, despite any incongruence with reality. 

Of course I've always been a huge fan of fantasy and sci-fi genres, so I've never been particularly concerned with realism in my entertainment, anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 23, 2022, 12:58:19 PM

When I watch a movie the last thing I want to see is true to life crap

I want to escape my real world and go on whatever journey of imagination the movie takes me on be it a comedy action or sci fi just entertain me and take me away from my reality

If I want to see true life I'll go sit on a street corner somewhere

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 23, 2022, 01:07:10 PM

I think realism in a movie is often important in separating an entertaining movie from a really really good movie.  I don't expect it, but it can happen.

My list of best movies is highly realistic, like "Aliens" and "Predator" and "Coming to America Two" ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 23, 2022, 01:15:28 PM

S&P getting crushed. This is awesome.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 23, 2022, 01:19:03 PM

I keep reminding myself I kept a fair bit liquid, but the numbers look pretty dismal anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on September 23, 2022, 01:29:39 PM

My one preference for "realistic" is horror movies.  Not that I hate horror movies with unrealistic / supernatural bad guys or anything, it's just I really prefer horror movies where the heroes all make smart, informed decisions and still get eaten / killed.

Misery, Green Room, Psycho, Silence of the Lambs, Open Water, Jaws, The Road, Strangers, and The Hitcher are all great movies that I love and fairly realistic.

Even if you want to throw some supernatural in there, The Thing, Alien, 28 Days Later, and The Conjuring also somewhat fall into that category.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 23, 2022, 01:38:21 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/m4DLHpt.png)

:smiley_confused1:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 23, 2022, 02:09:56 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 23, 2022, 12:15:23 PM

I saw previews for a couple movies suggesting climate change would raise sea levels by hundreds of feet.

It has, and will again.  But in a long-term way.  The "liberty" a movie like "The Day After Tomorrow" takes is that the climate changes too quickly, with all their scientific models being off.

You guys should watch the "Cinema Sins" video on that movie, you'll get a laugh out of it.  Same with "2021." 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 23, 2022, 02:16:57 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 23, 2022, 02:09:56 PM

It has, and will again.  But in a long-term way.  The "liberty" a movie like "The Day After Tomorrow" takes is that the climate changes too quickly, with all their scientific models being off.

You guys should watch the "Cinema Sins" video on that movie, you'll get a laugh out of it.  Same with "2021."

The beautiful thing about this view is that no one can prove you wrong

It wont happen during my lifetime but way in the future

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 23, 2022, 02:26:53 PM

We know sea levels have risen in prehistory, and fallen, by a lot, but not due to man's contributions obviously.  That isn't the misleading unrealistic aspect of these movies.

I see folks asking why Obama bought near sea level property if he believes in CC.

But some folks really appear to believe the oceans would experience a major rise in their  lifetimes if we don't "do something", and by major I mean tens of feet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on September 23, 2022, 03:19:18 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 23, 2022, 01:38:21 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/m4DLHpt.png)

:smiley_confused1:

Multiple podcasts were reporting that this week as far as leaning too far into Utah covering easily

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 23, 2022, 03:44:09 PM

Blues Brothers is a fav movie of mine, but near the end when the cars go flying off the end of the unfinished overpass and appear to fall thousands of feet, it bothers me as unrealistic.

why exaggerate to that degree?  Why not make it a few hundred feet fall? 

and it's obviously a comedy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 23, 2022, 03:52:33 PM

I forgive them for that one exaggeration in that movie ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 23, 2022, 04:11:48 PM

me too

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 23, 2022, 07:49:38 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on September 23, 2022, 02:16:57 PM

The beautiful thing about this view is that no one can prove you wrong

It wont happen during my lifetime but way in the future

Try not to be short-sighted.  This isn't a "yeah huh" vs "nuh uh" thing at all.  It's a certainty the climate will warm a lot in the future.  It's also a certainty it will cool back down as well.  
Also a certainty is that human's influence on nature , regardless of the severity, is mostly about how quick it's been.  Nature itself tends to act at a glacial pace.  Our pace?  It's like a rocket ship.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 23, 2022, 07:51:10 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 23, 2022, 02:26:53 PM

We know sea levels have risen in prehistory, and fallen, by a lot, but not due to man's contributions obviously.  That isn't the misleading unrealistic aspect of these movies.

I see folks asking why Obama bought near sea level property if he believes in CC.

But some folks really appear to believe the oceans would experience a major rise in their  lifetimes if we don't "do something", and by major I mean tens of feet.

'Near sea level' is a lot different than current populated spots already being below sea level (NOLA, Miami, etc).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 23, 2022, 08:21:34 PM

folks in NOLA don't believe in climate change?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 23, 2022, 08:36:06 PM

NOLA was built barely above sea level but the levees and such added messed with the natural absorbency of swamps to control floods naturally.ASK badgerfan he knows a thing or two about the lay of the land

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/10/us/new-orleans-sinking-into-sea-trnd#:~:text=When%20it%20was%20built%2C%20it,10%20feet%20above%20sea%20level.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on September 23, 2022, 10:15:14 PM

Quote from: grillrat on September 23, 2022, 01:29:39 PM

My one preference for "realistic" is horror movies.  Not that I hate horror movies with unrealistic / supernatural bad guys or anything, it's just I really prefer horror movies where the heroes all make smart, informed decisions and still get eaten / killed.

Misery, Green Room, Psycho, Silence of the Lambs, Open Water, Jaws, The Road, Strangers, and The Hitcher are all great movies that I love and fairly realistic.

Even if you want to throw some supernatural in there, The Thing, Alien, 28 Days Later, and The Conjuring also somewhat fall into that category.

Same.  I think a slow burn horror film, even cheaply made, always holds up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 23, 2022, 10:48:16 PM

why don't we just get into the running car???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 24, 2022, 07:23:03 AM

Why simply just not watch movies?

To me they are mostly a waste of time and money.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 24, 2022, 07:37:08 AM

I think a few are very good, worth watching, very few, and almost nothing current.  My wife and I have been to a theater once in our relationship over a decade.

That was to see a very good movie I've watched 4-5-6 times.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 24, 2022, 07:37:28 AM

Ed Zachery

haven't been to the theater in decades

don't watch them on the TV, even in January & February when there's not much to do

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 24, 2022, 07:41:00 AM

I read a lot, a decent library is less than a mile up the road.  I often quit on a book after a couple chapters, at times after a couple pages.  There is a lot of garbage that gets published.  I try and figure out what makes a well written book, I can't really emulate that though I try.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 24, 2022, 07:45:35 AM

Another reason I don't enjoy movies...

sometimes take a script from a good book and butcher it

well, always

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 24, 2022, 07:48:22 AM

I don't read either. It bores me.

well, I do read cookbooks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 24, 2022, 08:00:45 AM

Rattlesnake invades midtown Atlanta parking garage (yahoo.com) (https://www.yahoo.com/video/rattlesnake-invades-midtown-atlanta-parking-003130481.html)

This is a couple miles from us.  I won't tell my wife about it.  Our parking spaces are below ground and the area is not that well lit ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 24, 2022, 03:08:43 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 24, 2022, 07:48:22 AM

I don't read either. It bores me.

well, I do read cookbooks.

Entertainment is bad!  Grrrr!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 24, 2022, 03:12:30 PM

A giant meteor could fall on top of Hollywood and it would not hurt me one bit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 24, 2022, 03:29:48 PM

sometimes I think those Hollywood folks are on drugs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 24, 2022, 03:48:32 PM

Ya think?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 24, 2022, 04:36:38 PM

More films get shot here than in HW

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 24, 2022, 04:46:10 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 24, 2022, 04:36:38 PM

More films get shot here than in HW

Yeah, and then they fly back to la la land. Lucky for you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 24, 2022, 06:45:42 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 24, 2022, 03:12:30 PM

A giant meteor could fall on top of Hollywood and it would not hurt me one bit.

It would kill a million people, though.

Suddenly, my wanting FSU's team plane to crash doesn't look so bad.

What's crawled up your ass, bastage?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 25, 2022, 06:28:14 AM

I have a moderately sore throat and mild congestion.  I heard some folks in our group had the Lurgy.  I don't feel bad other than the throat is a bit sore.  That often means a cold of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 25, 2022, 09:30:01 AM

get tested and get a mask

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 25, 2022, 09:35:32 AM

We have some test kits around here somewhere.  It feels more like a cold coming on ... I was on a 9 hour plane flight, so it's not a shock, and I have not had a cold since Jan 2020.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 25, 2022, 09:37:14 AM

as you should know.. all colds are now caused by a virus called COVID-19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 25, 2022, 09:41:37 AM

They are both coronas of course.  I think I'll have a beer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 25, 2022, 09:46:40 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 24, 2022, 06:45:42 PM

It would kill a million people, though.

Suddenly, my wanting FSU's team plane to crash doesn't look so bad.

What's crawled up your ass, bastage?

A million people? Pffft. It would make room for UCLA to get a stadium. If there is still a UCLA, that is.

Passing a kidney stone (TMI).

 Badgers suck.

Messy hurricane coming.

I'm sure you're glad you asked.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 25, 2022, 10:09:17 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 25, 2022, 09:41:37 AM

They are both coronas of course.  I think I'll have a beer.

A "cold" beer? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 25, 2022, 10:12:54 AM

I asked a guy online what "Cold Beer and Cheeseburgers" has to offer.....and he genuinely answered me.  FFS
.
The movie Idiocracy is officially a documentary created by a time-traveler. 
We have restaurants called "Cold Beer and Cheeseburgers" (subtle) and people actually describing what they serve (idiot).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on September 25, 2022, 10:25:27 AM

Dayton had a restaurant called "cold beer and cheeseburgers." Clearly this "cold beers and cheeseburgers" chain in Arizona is an impostor. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 25, 2022, 11:56:39 AM

On Friday (September 23)'s episode of the hit television show, viewers can watch the show's host, Columbus-born restauranteur Guy Fieri, visit downtown Columbus' Pierogi Mountain. The Polish restaurant is known for its comfort food, including pierogi, house-made sausages, banh mi and more.

According to a social media post from the restaurant, the episode was filmed in February and will premiere on Friday at 9 p.m. In addition, Pierogi Mountain said they will be closing at 8 p.m. the same day “for some much needed rest and a little self-congratulations.” Check out the restaurant's full Instagram post announcing the episode below.


This isn't the first time Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives has featured Pierogi Mountain. In fact, this is the second time the restaurant, which is located at 105 North Grant Avenue in Columbus,__ has been on the show. Pierogi Mountain was first visited by the mayor of Flavortown and appeared in the series in 2017.

In addition, the show has made stops at several other Columbus eateries, including Ena's Caribbean Kitchen, Momo Ghar, Ray Ray's Hot Pit, Loops and Sweet Carrot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 25, 2022, 04:09:33 PM

It takes 7 months to edit that deal???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 25, 2022, 04:50:08 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 25, 2022, 09:46:40 AM

A million people? Pffft. It would make room for UCLA to get a stadium. If there is still a UCLA, that is.

Passing a kidney stone (TMI).

 Badgers suck.

Messy hurricane coming.

I'm sure you're glad you asked.

I mean, expressing neutrality about the deaths of millions seems a mite extreme, but then you mentioned the kidney stone, and Now I assume the number of people you don't wish terrible things on could fit on a single sheet of paper with a moderate font size. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 25, 2022, 05:28:43 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 25, 2022, 09:41:37 AM

They are both coronas of course.  I think I'll have a beer.

Have a Corona

(https://i.imgur.com/63UxNHv.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on September 25, 2022, 07:45:52 PM

Georgia Tech's pro scheme a total failure.   Fire coach. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 25, 2022, 07:55:10 PM

like Billy C. at UNL in 2004?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 25, 2022, 08:37:21 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on September 25, 2022, 07:45:52 PM

Georgia Tech's pro scheme a total failure.  Fire coach.

They dont have the horses to pull that wagon

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 25, 2022, 08:45:25 PM

used to be allowed 4 years to accumulate horses

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 25, 2022, 08:54:44 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 25, 2022, 08:45:25 PM

used to be allowed 4 years to accumulate horses

you should develop the offense to fit the horses ya have

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 25, 2022, 09:40:13 PM

SkiCat used to say, "Ya can't make horses outta horse shit"

but he was a hayseed that spoke about trench ponies

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 25, 2022, 10:34:04 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on September 25, 2022, 08:37:21 PM

They dont have the horses to pull that wagon

Horses looked so-so in the opener, albeit against better horses.

Issue is he was brought in as a wrangler, under the mistaken impression that he's in a potentially very nice ranch. But he's probably not. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 26, 2022, 12:46:31 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on September 25, 2022, 10:34:04 PM

Horses looked so-so in the opener, albeit against better horses.

Issue is he was brought in as a wrangler, under the mistaken impression that he's in a potentially very nice ranch. But he's probably not.

He's all hat and no cattle?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 26, 2022, 06:11:47 AM

Tech needed to stay with some obscure offense with cut blocks to have any real chance.  They can't compete straight up, they just can't.

They should sign a shifty athletic QB and run the triple or something akin to that, a player other schools wanted at safety.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 26, 2022, 08:15:15 AM

go to the single wing, have the half back throw passes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 26, 2022, 05:00:46 PM

Ask most college football fans, and the games and college football season probably aren’t long enough. It would seem the NCAA disagrees, citing the need to cut down on the length of games. The average FBS game is now playing for 3 hours and 22 minutes.

Considering the average length of an MLB game is a little over 3 hours, the average FBS game length doesn’t seem unreasonable. But, with the average time increasing by 4 minutes over the past 5 years, the NCAA wants to prevent games from becoming any longer.

According to a report by The Athletic’s Seth Emerson, NCAA officials have found the cause of college football games that are getting longer and longer, year after year. According to officials, an increase in passing plays is the main culprit in lengthier games.

In order to keep FBS more concise, the NCAA has proposed treating incomplete passes like plays where the ball runs out of bounds — the clock would stop only until the ball is set to be hiked again. The clock would run except for in the last 2 minutes of the first half and the final 5 minutes of regulation.

We’ll see if the NCAA’s plan help the game run more smoothly, or just cut short the season.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 27, 2022, 12:28:11 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 26, 2022, 05:00:46 PM

Ask most college football fans, and the games and college football season probably aren’t long enough. It would seem the NCAA disagrees, citing the need to cut down on the length of games. The average FBS game is now playing for 3 hours and 22 minutes.

Considering the average length of an MLB game is a little over 3 hours, the average FBS game length doesn’t seem unreasonable. But, with the average time increasing by 4 minutes over the past 5 years, the NCAA wants to prevent games from becoming any longer.

According to a report by The Athletic’s Seth Emerson, NCAA officials have found the cause of college football games that are getting longer and longer, year after year. According to officials, an increase in passing plays is the main culprit in lengthier games.

In order to keep FBS more concise, the NCAA has proposed treating incomplete passes like plays where the ball runs out of bounds — the clock would stop only until the ball is set to be hiked again. The clock would run except for in the last 2 minutes of the first half and the final 5 minutes of regulation.

We’ll see if the NCAA’s plan help the game run more smoothly, or just cut short the season.

Not commercials. It feels like commercials are a factor. 

I had friends at a game this weekend that had 22 incomplete passes. It went 3 1/2 hours. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 27, 2022, 07:20:28 AM

Too many commercials and to many visits to the replay booth.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 27, 2022, 08:10:25 AM

Replays account for the time lengthening I think.  They work commercials in as before.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 27, 2022, 08:33:41 AM

Meta shuts down covert influence campaigns it says were run from China and Russia | CNN Business (https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/27/tech/meta-china-russia-influence-campaigns/index.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on September 27, 2022, 08:46:03 AM

South African woman sets world record for eating chicken feet


https://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2022/09/26/safrica-Guinness-World-Records-chicken-feet/1081664228598/ (https://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2022/09/26/safrica-Guinness-World-Records-chicken-feet/1081664228598/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 27, 2022, 09:22:12 AM

THAT is "other" news

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on September 27, 2022, 12:40:59 PM

Better hope Ian is a right-handed pull hitter, because he keeps lurching to the right side of the guidance envelope.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 29, 2022, 07:40:13 AM

B-52 Completes Wind Tunnel Testing Of New Engine Nacelles - The Aviationist (https://theaviationist.com/2022/09/25/b-52-new-engine-nacelles-test/?fbclid=IwAR3uge_tzEew6foJoo_JI74VsEP0YN6VO2zLaoupALjrBeGSfA7dud0aIV4)

 the B-52 Commercial Engine Replacement Program was initiated in 2018, with GE Aviation, Pratt & Whitney and Rolls-Royce competing for the contract. The winning offer from Rolls-Royce is the military version of the BR725 engine used by the Gulfstream G650 business jet and already powering both the C-37 and E-11 BACN in service with the U.S. Air Force.

The Air Force plans to finalize integration activities and deliver the first lot of B-52 modified aircraft in the 2026-2027 timeframe, with initial operational capability expected in 2030. The new engines are expected to remain on the B-52 through at least 2050 (https://theaviationist.com/2019/11/11/b-52h-bomber-engine-emits-sparks-in-remarkable-photo-with-miraculous-timing/), increase fuel efficiency, increase range, reduce emissions in unburned hydrocarbons, and significantly reduce maintenance costs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 29, 2022, 07:50:06 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 27, 2022, 08:33:41 AM

Meta shuts down covert influence campaigns it says were run from China and Russia | CNN Business (https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/27/tech/meta-china-russia-influence-campaigns/index.html)

Meta should shut itself down. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 29, 2022, 07:58:54 AM

A lot of things "should" happen, but won't obviously.  Meta is a profitable enterprise, they won't be shut down.  I personally don't have a problem with FB.

I've seen a lot of effort applied to "anti-vaccine" disinformation here and there and wonder if it's Russian inspired or generated.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 29, 2022, 08:08:42 AM

I like Facebook.  Super-quick and easy way to update my family on what's going on with the kids.

It's very easy for me to ignore all the extra bulljive.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on September 29, 2022, 08:38:45 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 29, 2022, 07:40:13 AM

B-52 Completes Wind Tunnel Testing Of New Engine Nacelles - The Aviationist (https://theaviationist.com/2022/09/25/b-52-new-engine-nacelles-test/?fbclid=IwAR3uge_tzEew6foJoo_JI74VsEP0YN6VO2zLaoupALjrBeGSfA7dud0aIV4)

the B-52 Commercial Engine Replacement Program was initiated in 2018, with GE Aviation, Pratt & Whitney and Rolls-Royce competing for the contract. The winning offer from Rolls-Royce is the military version of the BR725 engine used by the Gulfstream G650 business jet and already powering both the C-37 and E-11 BACN in service with the U.S. Air Force.

The Air Force plans to finalize integration activities and deliver the first lot of B-52 modified aircraft in the 2026-2027 timeframe, with initial operational capability expected in 2030. The new engines are expected to remain on the B-52 through at least 2050 (https://theaviationist.com/2019/11/11/b-52h-bomber-engine-emits-sparks-in-remarkable-photo-with-miraculous-timing/), increase fuel efficiency, increase range, reduce emissions in unburned hydrocarbons, and significantly reduce maintenance costs.

In 2050 the B52 will be 98 years old.  I guess we got our money's worth.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 29, 2022, 08:41:39 AM

Quote from: utee94 on September 29, 2022, 08:08:42 AM

I like Facebook.  Super-quick and easy way to update my family on what's going on with the kids.

I think part of the "problem" is with folks who want everything done exactly the way they want it done and have little tolerance for something outside of that.  Like you, I use it for a thing and ignore anything I don't like (I'm not really sure what I don't like I ignore it so well).  Nothing in life pretty much is exactly how I want it to be.  I've learned to deal with that.

Even the coach of the team I support is not very Smart.  Well, he is in a way I guess.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 29, 2022, 11:16:12 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 29, 2022, 07:58:54 AM

A lot of things "should" happen, but won't obviously.  Meta is a profitable enterprise, they won't be shut down.  I personally don't have a problem with FB.

I've seen a lot of effort applied to "anti-vaccine" disinformation here and there and wonder if it's Russian inspired or generated.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FKxaoWBX0AkzPhy.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 29, 2022, 11:17:20 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 29, 2022, 08:41:39 AM

I think part of the "problem" is with folks who want everything done exactly the way they want it done and have little tolerance for something outside of that.  Like you, I use it for a thing and ignore anything I don't like (I'm not really sure what I don't like I ignore it so well).  Nothing in life pretty much is exactly how I want it to be.  I've learned to deal with that.

Even the coach of the team I support is not very Smart.  Well, he is in a way I guess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaaC57tcci0

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on September 29, 2022, 11:49:41 AM

NATO believes Nordstream pipelines were sabotaged.

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/nato-believes-baltic-sea-gas-leaks-sabotage-90694677 (https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/nato-believes-baltic-sea-gas-leaks-sabotage-90694677)


Why would Russia blow their own pipelines?  Putin is in Ukraine for keeps so he knows the Nordstream pipelines were not going to be put to use any time soon.  However, Russia now has a casus belli or excuse to sabotage the pipelines from Norway which would cripple the EU.  Putin hopes this winter will soften EU resolve.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 29, 2022, 12:29:20 PM

Quote from: utee94 on September 29, 2022, 08:08:42 AM

I like Facebook.  Super-quick and easy way to update my family on what's going on with the kids.

It's very easy for me to ignore all the extra bulljive. 

The problem is what it always is. People acting out. They do it there or on message boards or elsewhere.

Thankfully people sort of behave in real life … sometimes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 29, 2022, 12:38:08 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on September 29, 2022, 11:49:41 AM

NATO believes Nordstream pipelines were sabotaged.

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/nato-believes-baltic-sea-gas-leaks-sabotage-90694677 (https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/nato-believes-baltic-sea-gas-leaks-sabotage-90694677)


Why would Russia blow their own pipelines?  Putin is in Ukraine for keeps so he knows the Nordstream pipelines were not going to be put to use any time soon.  However, Russia now has a casus belli or excuse to sabotage the pipelines from Norway which would cripple the EU.  Putin hopes this winter will soften EU resolve.

EU resolve is already getting destroyed. Have you seen their economies/inflation/energy prices? Makes ours here look like small potatoes. HO-LEE-CHIT. Only a matter of time before EU resolve breaks completely and the people revolt, as they should. Their gov'ts are corrupt pieces of sh*t and the EU is just a useless entity and a stupid, bad idea in general. The whole thing. The EU. The Euro. It should all just die.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 29, 2022, 12:41:10 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on September 29, 2022, 12:29:20 PM

The problem is what it always is. People acting out. They do it there or on message boards or elsewhere.

Thankfully people sort of behave in real life … sometimes.

the social media companies design the damn apps to amp people up and get people to act out. and the damn things literally track EVERYTHING a person does on their phone or computer- the tracking sh*t is downright scary. social media is literally designed to use human psychology against humans and to manipulate people. I wouldn't exactly compare it to message boards. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 29, 2022, 12:54:26 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on September 29, 2022, 12:29:20 PM

The problem is what it always is. People acting out. They do it there or on message boards or elsewhere.

Thankfully people sort of behave in real life … sometimes.

Yeah, that's definitely the problem for some folks.

Not my problem, though.

I post pictures of my kids so my parents and inlaws can see them, and then I don't have to spend hours per week telling the same stories multiple times.  It's a real time-saver for me!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 30, 2022, 08:22:56 AM

Money magazine: 'Atlanta is the best place to live in the U.S.' | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/money-magazine-names-atlanta-best-place-live-united-states)

Heh.  rankings.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 30, 2022, 08:33:42 AM

possibly your favorite list

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 30, 2022, 08:43:57 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 30, 2022, 08:22:56 AM

Money magazine: 'Atlanta is the best place to live in the U.S.' | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/money-magazine-names-atlanta-best-place-live-united-states)

Heh.  rankings.

This amuses me because I often joke that the place where I live is growing in part because Atlanta has the reputation of being mildly unlivable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 30, 2022, 08:49:45 AM

I've made the point before, which is obvious, that generally folks making rankings of this ilk have never really lived in the various places, so their ranking is about as suspect as the Top Ten Doctors in the US et al.

I used to notice this in various flight magazines, things like "Top Ten Steak Houses in US", which meant "We found ten that would pony up to make this list".

If you like where you live, great, don't worry about what someone else thinks.

On the other hand, CFB team rankings are really important at this point in the season ....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 30, 2022, 09:06:39 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on September 29, 2022, 12:38:08 PM

Their gov'ts are corrupt pieces of sh*t and the EU is just a useless entity and a stupid, bad idea in general. The whole thing. The EU. The Euro. It should all just die.

Then why don't you charter a flight and drop in and get things sorted for them.What if the creep doesn't stop there? And there are many inside the Kremlin that have had enough of the shit stain. ya Western Leaders aren't much better  but they are not him

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 30, 2022, 09:11:45 AM

The Euro is mighty convenient for us tourists, I'll say that.  Today of course most cards are not charging a currency exchange fee, so that helps a lot.  I think the EU is a good idea, the fact it has issues shouldn't be a shock, the individual countries have issues also.

So do we.

I suppose one vision would have been to allow Russia to run over Ukraine with only some mild diplomatic protests ....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 30, 2022, 09:14:17 AM

doesn't appear the Russia could run over them, unless the rest of the world was aiding Russia

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 30, 2022, 09:16:25 AM

I think without western aid, Russia would have run over them as many expected anyway.  Ukraine had a small poorly equipped military.

Maybe they'd have left a rump state in the west as Ukraine.

We probably increased Ukraine's military capabilities by 10x, maybe more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on September 30, 2022, 09:39:01 PM

Now I kind of want to touch the boat?

https://twitter.com/MBPDSC/status/1575936977894924288?t=jEoVg-b63RMD7xII_XUtnw&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 30, 2022, 09:53:08 PM

Quote from: ELA on September 30, 2022, 09:39:01 PM

Now I kind of want to touch the boat?

https://twitter.com/MBPDSC/status/1575936977894924288?t=jEoVg-b63RMD7xII_XUtnw&s=19

Oh, it’s South Carolina, someone’s gonna climb that boat

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 30, 2022, 11:09:52 PM

WHAT IS IN THAT BOAT??????

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 30, 2022, 11:16:15 PM

Knowledge.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 01, 2022, 06:42:59 AM

What does "near" mean?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 01, 2022, 06:52:45 AM

Ex-Indiana football player Ralphael Green arrested after locker room break-in at LSU's Tiger Stadium (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/Ex-Indiana-football-player-Ralphael-Green-arrested-after-locker-room-break-in-at-LSUs-Tiger-Stadium-194445570/?fbclid=IwAR1g7dUVaKynJQcrSfW8gI-Rvo2QfVNOAbGtwnyyPrywkM55hAw-rP33NLc)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 01, 2022, 09:55:49 AM

Quote from: utee94 on September 30, 2022, 11:09:52 PM

WHAT IS IN THAT BOAT??????

(https://c.tenor.com/yGy-MlnkHeUAAAAC/cocaine-hookers.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 01, 2022, 10:02:35 AM

Boats and Hoes

https://youtu.be/yFiOGiT8zBQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 01, 2022, 12:59:07 PM

Anyone heard from Super Mario?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 01, 2022, 01:00:50 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 01, 2022, 10:02:35 AM

Boats and Hoes

https://youtu.be/yFiOGiT8zBQ

one of the greatest movies ever imo

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 01, 2022, 01:11:46 PM

that's my brother's opinion

not mine

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 03, 2022, 07:11:45 AM

DeSantis warns leftist looters that this is a 2nd Amendment state.

Totally awesome. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on October 03, 2022, 07:35:33 AM

FL Gov. DeSantis says, "you loot, we shoot."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 03, 2022, 07:37:40 AM

Is there a state that is not a second amendment state?  (Yes, I know laws vary some.)  

Do you think potential looters in Florida are deterred by this statement, or is it just political?

Using deadly force against a person who is "just stealing" and poses on direct imminent threat of bodily harm can result in consequences, legal and otherwise, in all states.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on October 03, 2022, 07:41:05 AM

Just quoting the Gov.  I think they're working on emergency legislation to protect citizens who shoot looters.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 03, 2022, 07:42:25 AM

I could envision some undesired consquences of legally protecting folks who shoot "looters".  

"Yeah, I shot him, he was looting ..." 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 03, 2022, 08:06:39 AM

There are a special PoS that takes advantage of those traumatized by a natural disaster. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 03, 2022, 08:41:57 AM

Those who howl "what would you possibly need an AR-15 for?" didn't take looters during a natural disaster into account. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on October 03, 2022, 10:17:48 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 03, 2022, 08:41:57 AM

Those who howl "what would you possibly need an AR-15 for?" didn't take looters during a natural disaster into account.

Bulljive.  One shot in the air and looters drop what they are holding and scatter.

I am a firm believer in the right to bare arms, and there are a few cases I could theorize that require an AR-15.  This is not one of them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 03, 2022, 10:28:12 AM

Quote from: grillrat on October 03, 2022, 10:17:48 AM

Bulljive.  One shot in the air and looters drop what they are holding and scatter.

I am a firm believer in the right to bare arms, and there are a few cases I could theorize that require an AR-15.  This is not one of them.

(https://i.imgur.com/WYKkdGC.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 03, 2022, 10:31:09 AM

Quote from: grillrat on October 03, 2022, 10:17:48 AM

Bulljive.  One shot in the air and looters drop what they are holding and scatter.

I am a firm believer in the right to bare arms, and there are a few cases I could theorize that require an AR-15.  This is not one of them.

Its obvious you have never been through a bad storm where there is devastation as far as you can see but I have and the looters will come and not just a few

They feed off the misfortunate who have their home destroyed and their possessions scattered all over hell

Its not pretty

if left uncontested they will pick you clean and move on 

this scum should be dealt with in any way effective

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 03, 2022, 10:39:48 AM

I'd give them at least two warning shots

the first in the air to make noise and get their attention

the 2nd would be a little closer to really get their attention

I would hope that would be enough

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 03, 2022, 10:48:32 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 03, 2022, 07:37:40 AM

Is there a state that is not a second amendment state?  (Yes, I know laws vary some.) 

Do you think potential looters in Florida are deterred by this statement, or is it just political?

Using deadly force against a person who is "just stealing" and poses on direct imminent threat of bodily harm can result in consequences, legal and otherwise, in all states.

Not political at all unless someone makes it so.

The message will have an impact.  Just like it does in other geographies. 

looters come out by the hundreds to take advantage of the people who were impacted. I saw it here on my side of the state with that hurricane a few years back.

you either hear the message “we’re not going to stop you because you’re not endangering anyone so have at it “or “it’s not even going to be considered a prosecutable crime if the value of what’s being looted is less than X dollars.”
or you hear the message “ it won’t be tolerated here”. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 03, 2022, 11:02:18 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 03, 2022, 10:48:32 AM

Not political at all unless someone makes it so.

The message will have an impact.  Just like it does in other geographies. 

looters come out by the hundreds to take advantage of the people who were impacted. I saw it here on my side of the state with that hurricane a few years back.

you either hear the message “we’re not going to stop you because you’re not endangering anyone so have at it “or “it’s not even going to be considered a prosecutable crime if the value of what’s being looted is less than X dollars.”
or you hear the message “ it won’t be tolerated here”. 

I hear people comment that when someone shoots an intruder that is simply stealing from them that they value their possesions more than the thief's life. To the contrary, the THEIF values those items more than his own life. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 03, 2022, 11:14:12 AM

It's a simple matter of the law in each state obviously.

Well, not often really simple.  If you use a firearm, it's a good idea to know the law in your locality.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on October 03, 2022, 11:31:27 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 03, 2022, 10:28:12 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/WYKkdGC.png)

That's what I get for posting while driving.  I caught what the autocorrect did for Bulljive.

Besides, this is what the founding fathers really meant....


(https://i.imgur.com/GVsKAzf.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 03, 2022, 11:34:17 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 03, 2022, 11:14:12 AM

It's a simple matter of the law in each state obviously.

Well, not often really simple.  If you use a firearm, it's a good idea to know the law in your locality.

If I caught someone looting my house after hurricane I would not shoot them, at least if I had any kind of choice. But I probably would use my weapon to run them off or get them to stop.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 03, 2022, 11:37:05 AM

HB how is the homestead?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 03, 2022, 11:38:19 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 03, 2022, 10:28:12 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/WYKkdGC.png)

He shoulda armed himself

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 03, 2022, 11:40:25 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 03, 2022, 11:02:18 AM

I hear people comment that when someone shoots an intruder that is simply stealing from them that they value their possesions more than the thief's life. To the contrary, the THEIF values those items more than his own life.

Unless they were actually looking for FOOD,I wouldn't lose sleep if ya put one in their arse

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 03, 2022, 11:42:05 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 03, 2022, 11:37:05 AM

HB how is the homestead?

Even though we were 125 miles away from the center, we did get 2 1/2 days of extremely high winds and heavy rain. My only issues are with my landscaping which was torn to shreds but no major damage. Nothing that can’t be fixed or replaced.  Thank you for asking.
my brother who lives in Cape Coral had a small boat that ended up a couple doors down on top of someone’s boat lift, a large boat which sustained significant damage, a screen cage all over his pool which was completely wiped out, lost all of his landscaping, and had one damaged car.
he feels fortunate because he has a lot of people around him who didn’t come out so lucky.  And in his words he is surrounded by mass destruction.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on October 03, 2022, 01:40:17 PM

My in-laws and my wife's sister's whole family lived in Cape Coral up until about two months ago.  The in-laws moved to Utah and the sister's family moved to Indiana.  Both sets have found out that the homes they used to live in had at least 4 feet of water inside of them.

My wife's neice's baby-daddy still lives down there and was staying at the Lanni Kai resort on Ft. Myers beach (his dad owns the place).  He was an idiot and didn't evacuate.  He is alive, but essentially had to move up to stay with someone on the third floor of the hotel because his second story room was flooded and some of the waves were cresting onto the third floor balconies.  He said he could feel the whole building swaying and creaking.  He is, quite frankly, lucky to be alive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 03, 2022, 09:34:38 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on October 03, 2022, 07:35:33 AM

FL Gov. DeSantis says, "you loot, we shoot."

America's Governor!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 03, 2022, 09:42:08 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 03, 2022, 10:39:48 AM

I'd give them at least two warning shots

the first in the air to make noise and get their attention

the 2nd would be a little closer to really get their attention

I would hope that would be enough

Ammo is too expensive to give warning shots. Just finish it.

Knowing this was coming 2 weeks ago I had 1000 rounds each of 556 NATO, 9mm, 12 gage and .380 auto delivered.

F anyone who tries to mess around here. I'd throw in $1.00 for the cremation.  

Maybe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 03, 2022, 11:56:24 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on October 03, 2022, 07:41:05 AM

Just quoting the Gov.  I think they're working on emergency legislation to protect citizens who shoot looters. 

The actual, mostly mundane quotes, for whoever cares: 

“They boarded up all the businesses, and there are people that wrote on their plywood, ‘you loot, we shoot,'” DeSantis said. “At the end of the day, we are not going to allow lawlessness to take advantage of this situation. We are a law-and-order state, and this is a law-and-order community, so do not think that you’re going to go take advantage of people who’ve suffered misfortune.”

"Don't even think about looting, don't even think about taking advantage of people in this vulnerable situation ... You could have people bringing boats into some of these islands and trying to ransack people's homes," DeSantis said. "I can tell you in the state of Florida, you never know what may be lurking behind somebody's home. And I would not want to chance that if I were you given that we are a second amendment state."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on October 04, 2022, 12:48:44 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 03, 2022, 11:56:24 PM

The actual, mostly mundane quotes, for whoever cares:

“They boarded up all the businesses, and there are people that wrote on their plywood, ‘you loot, we shoot,'” DeSantis said. “At the end of the day, we are not going to allow lawlessness to take advantage of this situation. We are a law-and-order state, and this is a law-and-order community, so do not think that you’re going to go take advantage of people who’ve suffered misfortune.”

"Don't even think about looting, don't even think about taking advantage of people in this vulnerable situation ... You could have people bringing boats into some of these islands and trying to ransack people's homes," DeSantis said. "I can tell you in the state of Florida, you never know what may be lurking behind somebody's home. And I would not want to chance that if I were you given that we are a second amendment state."

Shit he's got my vote.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 04, 2022, 02:11:56 AM

Some drunk guy (possibly a neighbor, idk) woke me up at 1:30 am, banging on my door.  

I told him to go away twice and then waited about 5 min.  Then, I opened my door with a hammer in my hand.  He was slumped over against the wall.  Not a threat.

But yes, if he tried to enter, his head was getting caved in.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 04, 2022, 05:41:50 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 03, 2022, 11:56:24 PM

The actual, mostly mundane quotes, for whoever cares:

“They boarded up all the businesses, and there are people that wrote on their plywood, ‘you loot, we shoot,'” DeSantis said. “At the end of the day, we are not going to allow lawlessness to take advantage of this situation. We are a law-and-order state, and this is a law-and-order community, so do not think that you’re going to go take advantage of people who’ve suffered misfortune.”

"Don't even think about looting, don't even think about taking advantage of people in this vulnerable situation ... You could have people bringing boats into some of these islands and trying to ransack people's homes," DeSantis said. "I can tell you in the state of Florida, you never know what may be lurking behind somebody's home. And I would not want to chance that if I were you given that we are a second amendment state."

That's what a real leader sounds like when there's looters looting. 

Quite refreshing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 04, 2022, 05:43:20 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 04, 2022, 02:11:56 AM

Some drunk guy (possibly a neighbor, idk) woke me up at 1:30 am, banging on my door. 

I told him to go away twice and then waited about 5 min.  Then, I opened my door with a hammer in my hand.  He was slumped over against the wall.  Not a threat.

But yes, if he tried to enter, his head was getting caved in. 

Not if he has a bigger hammer. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 04, 2022, 07:53:37 AM

A list for Cincy............

Street life: it’s the only life we know. Seriously, streets are where most of us spend our lives – hanging out, eating, drinking, working, sleeping and occasionally pulling some embarrassing dance moves. If parks are the lungs of the city, streets are its veins, carrying urbanites around each day like stressed-but-happy little blood cells. Street life is what makes the places we live feel alive. Which makes streets kind of a big deal.

Why are we telling you this? Because every year, we quiz thousands of city-dwellers around the world for our Time Out Index survey. And this year, we asked more than 20,000 people the question: what’s the coolest street in your city?


https://www.timeout.com/things-to-do/coolest-streets-in-the-world (https://www.timeout.com/things-to-do/coolest-streets-in-the-world)

1. Rue Wellington, Montreal

2. Gertrude Street, Melbourne

3. Great Western Road, Glasgow

4. Yongkang Street, Taipei

5. Værnedamsvej, Copenhagen

6. Karangahape Road, Auckland

7. Tai Ping Shan Street, Hong Kong

8. Yaowarat Road, Bangkok

9. Oranienstrasse, Berlin

10. Hayes Street, San Francisco
The main drag of Hayes Valley, one of San Francisco’s trendiest neighbourhoods, took a big hit during the past few years. But lately, it’s become a symbol of resurgence. Bustling once again, Hayes Street meshes old SF – with its quirky shops and long-time eateries – with some of the city’s most exciting restaurant openings and trendiest storefronts. Once you’re done trawling the boutiques, where you can splurge on everything from clothing and jewellery to home goods and gifts, end your Hayes Street spree with a drink at a charming wine bar or a bite to eat on a sidewalk patio.

BUY Locally-produced everything from local favourite (and woman-owned small business) Rare Device.

EAT A casual lunch at Mano, also the perfect place for meet-ups or special dinners.

DRINK A take-out coffee from Ritual Coffee’s tiny container outpost — a key element of the Hayes valley neighbourhood’s landscape. Clara Hogan, Time Out San Francisco


11. Avenida Ámsterdam, Mexico City

12. Kolokotroni, Athens

13. Virgil Avenue, Los Angeles
Formerly famous as the home of ultra-trendy café Sqirl (before a mouldy jam scandal shredded that particular establishment’s reputation), Virgil Avenue’s culinary scene now orbits around a pair of sensations: Melody, a wine bar in a bungalow that’s become known for its next-big-thing food pop-ups, and Courage Bagels, a Montreal-style bagel shop with an LA-sized line. Others have moved into this low-profile, tree-lined stretch of Virgil Village in their wake, including colorful Cuba-inspired bar Bolita and chicken-based Ken’s Ramen – albeit at a cost to the area’s largely working-class, Central American community.

DO Catch Hot Tub, Kurt Braunohler and Kristen Schaal’s long-running Monday night comedy show at the Virgil.

EAT A 10-course Thai and Japanese meal at KinKan, a casual, grandma-chic dining room.

DRINK A selection of ciders and snack on all sorts of waffles at the intimate Alma’s Cider and Beer. Michael Juliano, Time Out Los Angeles


14. Ossington Avenue, Toronto

15. Via Provenza, Medellín

16. Calle Ocho, Miami
Calle Ocho, or Eight Street, is the main artery for the lively community of Little Havana. Along the bustling strip lie some of Miami’s oldest cigar shops, their aroma permeating the sidewalks; the city’s most iconic domino park (Andy Garcia could be seen playing here in the latest iteration of ‘Father of the Bride’); and beloved artisanal dessert shop Azucar, whose giant ice cream cone sculpture is a beacon to all those in search of a Cuban-inspired frozen treat. Not much has changed along Calle Ocho in recent years, and in our book, that’s a good thing – with so much of the world in flux, it’s comforting to know there’s still a stretch of Miami serving consistently good cafecito with a side of genuine warmth and hospitality.

EAT The creations of by James Beard Award-winning chef Michelle Bernstein at Café La Trova. It’s a tough one to pull off, but La Trova successfully closes the gap between tourists and locals: out-of-towners come here for the authentic Miami Cuban experience, while locals delight in the nightly live music and cocktails by decorated cantinero Julio Cabrera.

DRINK Freshly made mojitos at Ball & Chain. This storied jazz club recently remained closed for far too long (a casualty of local political tensions) but persisted, prevailed and reopened last fall. Its iconic pineapple stage is the place to catch live acts, while indoors it’s all about the swirling salsa dancers and infectious Latin beats.

STAY Boutique hotel chain Life House has transformed an old apartment building into a charming, Le Labo-scented inn located just a few steps from Calle Ocho. The rooms are small but nicely done, and the in-house restaurant, Terras, really stands out in the neighborhood: it’s an adorable rooftop bar and restaurant serving Latin-inspired small plates, stiff drinks and swoon-worthy views towards Brickell. Virginia Gil, Time Out Miami


17. Deptford High Street, London

18. Praça das Flores, Lisbon

19. Oxford Street, Accra

20. Wentworth Avenue, Chicago
Amid waning Asian-American populations in Chinatowns across the US, Chicago’s Chinatown has continued to expand and thrive. The neighbourhood’s heart is the bustling commercial strip along Wentworth Avenue, from the street’s iconic Chinatown Gateway (modelled after a wall in Beijing) down to the south end’s dense network of gift shops, grocers, boba spots and truly incredible Chinese restaurants.

EAT Handmade lamb and coriander dumplings at Qing Xiang Yuan, with a side of slick, spicy wood-ear-mushroom salad for good measure. Grab frozen dumplings on your way out to recreate the meal at home.

DO Work your way to the north end of the street, which deposits you at the eastern end of Ping Tom Park: a riverside green space that boasts some of the city’s most stunning skyline views.

BUY You could spend a whole afternoon puttering around the strip’s vast array of stores, from long-time souvenir shops to the brand-new, Japanese-inspired chain Miniso. Emma Krupp, Time Out Chicago


21. Cutting Room Square, Manchester

22. Capel Street, Dublin

23. Jumeirah Beach Road, Dubai

24. Enmore Road, Sydney

25. Kagurazaka, Tokyo

26. Kloof Street, Cape Town

27. Süleyman Seba Caddesi, Istanbul

28. Calle Echegaray, Madrid

29. MacDougal Street, New York
Running through the West Village along Washington Square Park and down to Prince Street, this half-mile stretch has been one of the most vibrant streets in NYC for decades. Despite its short span, MacDougal has a long and storied history – it’s particularly known as the epicentre of the Beat Generation and for attracting luminaries like Bob Dylan, Allen Ginsberg and Jack Kerouac to now-iconic haunts like Cafe Wha?, Minetta Tavern and Caffe Reggio. (Even Eleanor Roosevelt lived here.) What makes this street the coolest in NYC today isn’t just its history, though. It’s home to Comedy Cellar, much-awarded negroni haven Dante NYC, Mermaid Oyster Bar, illustrious jazz clubs (like Blue Note) and a whole clutch of other must-see spots, ensuring that its enduringly cool vibe still brings tourists, college students and New Yorkers seeking the best of the city to its sidewalks. That’s especially true on warm evenings when the street comes alive with live music and outdoor dining.

EAT Scrummy oysters at the New England-inspired Mermaid Oyster Bar.

DRINK A negroni or three at Dante NYC, named the world’s best bar in 2019, but with a history dating right back to 1915.

SEE A spellbinding set at Blue Note Jazz Club, which has earned its stripes as one of the world’s best rooms for the big J. Shaye Weaver, Time Out New York


30. Carrer del Comte Borrell, Barcelona

31. Newbury Street, Boston
It’s official: Newbury Street is cool again. The Back Bay street once known for its designer shops and historic brownstones is now home to some of the best new restaurants, funkiest speakeasies and chic-est boutique hotels Boston has to offer. Newbury’s roots may go back nearly two centuries, but thanks to the arrival of street patios and throng of new openings, this tony street is once again one of the liveliest places to spend a night out in the city.

DRINK A tipple or two at Hecate, Boston’s coolest new bar. A speakeasy inspired by the Greek goddess of witchcraft, Hecate’s drinkable creations will have you raving to your friends. Step into this dark, underground lair of a speakeasy to kick off your night with a bang.

EAT Italian small plates at Faccia Brutta. Translating to ‘ugly face’, Faccia Brutta specializes in delicious shareable small plates in a casual setting.

STAY At The Newbury, for those nights you don’t want to end. Perched over Boston Common, this place is fun, stylish and sexy, and its Street Bar regularly gets packed with a buzzy crowd of locals. Jacqueline Sabia, Time Out Boston


32. Colaba Causeway, Mumbai

33. Everton Road, Singapore

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 04, 2022, 08:45:59 AM

Cool list, I never heard of "scrummy oysters".

Around here, I'd say Peachtree Street, or one of'em, or maybe Ponce de Leon these days.  we are hosting a French couple next week for a week, we're noodling where to take them.  The lady is an artist of some note.  I have not met her new husband.  Definitely on the platter is fox Bros. BBQ and Canoe, a nice restaurant with a beautiful garden overlooking the river.  We'll do Hattie B's chicken if we can get in without a lengthy wait.  My wife suggested a symphony, but apparently they are booked that weekend (and tickets are pricey anyway).

This is the same lady that showed us around New Orleans as she claimed to know where to get great good.  We were both unimpressed.

A similar list would be "things to do" in major US cities one might overlook.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 04, 2022, 09:00:00 AM

I feel sorry for people that can't come up with a better place to vacate than some gigantic, soul-sucking city. Particularly when they already live in one. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 04, 2022, 09:04:16 AM

Which Peachtree Street? IIRC there are at least 20 of them in Atlanta alone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 04, 2022, 09:05:16 AM

yup, I've been to Miami, Chicago, San Fran, LA, & Boston

not sure if I visited any of the noted streets

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 04, 2022, 09:05:26 AM

Obviously, it hinges on one's interests.  Some large cities has things that are of interest to me, and others of course.  I've had good times in NYC and LA and SF.  I had a pretty good time recently in Paris, better than in some of my previous visits.  Boston was pretty neat, I thought.  We're headed to Vancouver next month, and I'd like to visit Montreal.  Copenhagen is up there in my view as places to visit.  My first two visits to Honolulu were a bit down, but our last trip there turned out great, it depends on what you see and your own interests obviously.  My guess is another visit to NO might be a lot better than my first two, but I'm turned off on that place.

Havana was much dumpier than I expected and Rio was as well, though Rio obviously had some nice areas, and some incredible slums.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 04, 2022, 09:06:46 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on October 04, 2022, 09:04:16 AM

Which Peachtree Street? IIRC there are at least 20 of them in Atlanta alone.

That was my point, but in reality there is only one "Peachtree Street", there are over 20 others named Peachtree walk, road, industrial blvd, way, lane, circle, etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 04, 2022, 10:10:07 AM

Some neat photos of a just opened office/condo complex near us.

Photos: Touring Atlanta's largest new office building this year | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/midtown-union-photos-largest-new-office-building-tour)

(https://i.imgur.com/WLe0Ylw.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 04, 2022, 10:13:46 AM

I think CD has just been faking being retired all these years and actually works for the Atlanta Tourist Bureau.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 04, 2022, 10:22:07 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 04, 2022, 10:13:46 AM

I think CD has just been faking being retired all these years and actually works for the Atlanta Tourist Bureau.

Also known as the Chamber of Commerce Field Marshal 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 04, 2022, 10:22:33 AM

I don't know if my links encourage tourism, I just find the photos neat, personally, perhaps others do not.  We like to walk around and have watched this and other places being built, it's rather amazing to me what humans can do when not blowing things up.

I read that an efficiency apartment there goes for $2K a month, which is quite high for this area.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 04, 2022, 10:57:51 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 04, 2022, 09:00:00 AM

I feel sorry for people that can't come up with a better place to vacate than some gigantic, soul-sucking city. Particularly when they already live in one.

that's why I like the suburbs my dude. you can be close to the cool big cities that become soul-sucking when you live in them- but are cool to visit every once in awhile.

The big cities do become soul-sucking having to live in them everyday. But also just refuse to and can't do the country bumpkin life style....EW, GROSS, and no thanks. The 'burbs are where it's at imo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 04, 2022, 11:02:56 AM

I lived most of my life in the suburbs.  I found them good for raising kids.  I've lived some on a farm (my grandparents, a few weeks each summer).  That has some appeal fo me also, but it's hard work and can get boring.  I've lived the past four years amidst a pretty large city and I find I like it best at this point in my life.

But with kids, having a nice yard was a great asset, and having suburban items like sports and a rec center and good schools was essential for me.

Oddly enough, before I met my wife, I figured to retire somewhere rural on about 25 acres and have a lot of dogs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on October 04, 2022, 11:05:43 AM

Putin may nuke Russia:

https://nypost.com/2022/10/04/russia-planning-nuke-test-near-ukraine-border-report/ (https://nypost.com/2022/10/04/russia-planning-nuke-test-near-ukraine-border-report/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 04, 2022, 11:08:07 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on October 04, 2022, 11:05:43 AM

Putin may nuke Russia:

https://nypost.com/2022/10/04/russia-planning-nuke-test-near-ukraine-border-report/ (https://nypost.com/2022/10/04/russia-planning-nuke-test-near-ukraine-border-report/)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0GFRcFm-aY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 04, 2022, 11:36:46 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on October 04, 2022, 11:05:43 AM

Putin may nuke Russia:

https://nypost.com/2022/10/04/russia-planning-nuke-test-near-ukraine-border-report/ (https://nypost.com/2022/10/04/russia-planning-nuke-test-near-ukraine-border-report/)

Putin is starting to make that kook in North Korea seem reasonable

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 04, 2022, 11:50:49 AM

Someone from the inside needs to take him out. Of course he's KGB, so he knows all the tricks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 04, 2022, 12:16:54 PM

He needs an off-ramp.  

I'm no psychologist and I've obviously never met him, but I do not think he's crazy.  The (super) amateur Russo-European history student in me believes that the average American mind doesn't adequately understand how the Russian people view Ukraine, and that if taken from a different POV, you can see the sense in his goal, if not the methods.  I don't think his are the actions of a mad man.  

The world leaders (read: us) need to give him a way out that satisfies all parties enough and allows him to save face.  It wouldn't come without a cost, but at this point things aren't going back to the way we were.  I do not care to get into general politics at this time, but imo we have a role in all this, and largely by inaction, I think the US has handled this more than poorly.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 04, 2022, 12:26:09 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 04, 2022, 12:16:54 PM

He needs an off-ramp. 

I'm no psychologist and I've obviously never met him, but I do not think he's crazy.  The (super) amateur Russo-European history student in me believes that the average American mind doesn't adequately understand how the Russian people view Ukraine, and that if taken from a different POV, you can see the sense in his goal, if not the methods.  I don't think his are the actions of a mad man. 

The world leaders (read: us) need to give him a way out that satisfies all parties enough and allows him to save face.  It wouldn't come without a cost, but at this point things aren't going back to the way we were.  I do not care to get into general politics at this time, but imo we have a role in all this, and largely by inaction, I think the US has handled this more than poorly. 

Agree 100%.

We have a role in all this- as NATO is essentially our little toy and the EU is a feckless sackless useless nut-riding bitch of the US. They do basically whatever we tell them to- Europe is our f**king bitch and NATO is our little toy. It's our thing. It's a military mafia- just a new form of imperialism- and the US is king shit- what we say goes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 04, 2022, 01:38:17 PM

The only offramp that Putin is going to get is one that involves withdrawal from Crimea and going back to pre-2014 borders. There is ZERO appetite in Ukraine to trade territory for a cease fire. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 04, 2022, 02:07:33 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on October 04, 2022, 01:38:17 PM

The only offramp that Putin is going to get is one that involves withdrawal from Crimea and going back to pre-2014 borders. There is ZERO appetite in Ukraine to trade territory for a cease fire.

True, but that leaves an enormous gulf to be bridged in any settlement (which I think is inevitable at some point).  I once read that Russians are paranoid, but then they keep being invaded by the West (and at times East) over and over.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 04, 2022, 02:09:56 PM

when was the last time Russia was invaded in the last 75 years

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 04, 2022, 02:13:03 PM

They take a long view on the topic, like remember the Mongols?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 04, 2022, 02:37:23 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 04, 2022, 02:13:03 PM

They take a long view on the topic, like remember the Mongols?

or the Germans. or the French. 

Americans are kinda lazy/stupid/lucky. We don't like to look at others points of views or histories, only our own. We've never really had to deal with an invasion or the devastation of war. Japs bombed Pearl Harbor when it wasn't even part of the US- and we only f**king NUKED them over that. Twice. Still the only country to ever actually use nuclear weapons by the way. 'MERICA BABY! 

Bin Laden hit the twin towers on 9/11 and the US has basically f**king obliterated all of the middle east after that- still bombing the f**k out of that region 20+ years later.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 04, 2022, 02:41:07 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on October 04, 2022, 01:38:17 PM

The only offramp that Putin is going to get is one that involves withdrawal from Crimea and going back to pre-2014 borders. There is ZERO appetite in Ukraine to trade territory for a cease fire.

Well Russia is never giving up Crimea so that's a moot point. Ukraine has only been able to hold out from negotiating a settlement because it has the US backing it. If the US would stop funding and arming Ukraine to the teeth and creating a situation where they are keeping a prolonged proxy war going- Ukraine would've been SOL and wouldn't have much of a choice now would they? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 04, 2022, 02:45:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 04, 2022, 02:07:33 PM

I once read that Russians are paranoid, but then they keep being invaded by the West (and at times East) over and over.

Huh? When have they been "keep being invaded".I know they crossed the Chinese border what back in the 50's.The Afghanistan in '79 and Ukraine last winter.Prolly not a lot alive there that remember BlitzKreig when Dolf and the boys stopped for a spell .So NO

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 04, 2022, 03:59:26 PM

Their paranoia won't seem justified by us,  generally speaking, but I think it exists.  I think this is from a pretty good but older book by Hedley Smith.  Almost got his name right.

(https://i.imgur.com/EcDbps4.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 04, 2022, 04:28:55 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 04, 2022, 03:59:26 PM

Their paranoia won't seem justified by us,  generally speaking, but I think it exists.  I think this is from a pretty good but older book by Hedley Smith.  Almost got his name right.

(https://i.imgur.com/EcDbps4.png)

the “it was a long time ago, forget about” argument that Americans try to always say about everything is a massively stupid one. 

do people really think Native American tribes will ever forget about being conquered and wiped out? Or Jews will just forget about the holocaust? Has anyone seen how aggressive and hostile Israel is to any nation who even hints at threats? They do not fk around even a little bit. 

America is basically brand new in the scheme of things, and it might be the only nation on the planet that has never been basically totally destroyed by war. We’ve been very lucky that we haven’t really been touched by war and it’s devastation on our shores.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 04, 2022, 04:34:18 PM

I think I could name quite a few nations never "totally destroyed by war", and the US has been significantly damaged in a war, part of it anyway.

But I think it true that Russians at a core level are paranoids, and even paranoids have enemies.  That doesn't justify their attack on Ukraine in my view of course, but it speaks to why many Russians appeared to be supportive of that (granted their "news" was perhaps not all that credible).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 04, 2022, 04:59:04 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 04, 2022, 04:34:18 PM

I think I could name quite a few nations never "totally destroyed by war", and the US has been significantly damaged in a war, part of it anyway.

But I think it true that Russians at a core level are paranoids, and even paranoids have enemies.  That doesn't justify their attack on Ukraine in my view of course, but it speaks to why many Russians appeared to be supportive of that (granted their "news" was perhaps not all that credible).

Well almost every nation has experienced war on their shores. Except for the US. Yeah, we had a civil war- but that was us doing that to each other. And some southerners still don’t like northerners because of it. 

I mean aside from Japan bombing a US territory and a terrorist attack, America hasn’t really ever experienced war on its shores. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 04, 2022, 05:09:08 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 04, 2022, 04:28:55 PM

America is basically brand new in the scheme of things, and it might be the only nation on the planet that has never been basically totally destroyed by war. We’ve been very lucky that we haven’t really been touched by war and it’s devastation on our shores.

Conflict is a human condition, obviously, but to claim every nation but ours has been basically totally destroyed at one time is clearly false.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 04, 2022, 06:38:50 PM

The Western Hemisphere has avoided much of the destruction.  It hasn't been without its problems of course, but nothing like what has gone on in Europe, Asia, and Africa over the ages.

Of course, the native Americans (and native South Americans) would argue that their nations actually were totally destroyed.  If there were enough of them left to be heard.

So my first statement is actually incorrect.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on October 04, 2022, 06:51:11 PM

Putin’s core motivation for invading Ukraine was greed for territory and the resources within.  He dressed it up as self defense from Nato expansion, Russian nationalism, and even tried to sell it as a liberation of Ukrainians from Nazis.  But now its mostly about his and his regime’s survival. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 04, 2022, 07:40:55 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on October 04, 2022, 06:51:11 PM

Putin’s core motivation for invading Ukraine was greed for territory and the resources within.  He dressed it up as self defense from Nato expansion, Russian nationalism, and even tried to sell it as a liberation of Ukrainians from Nazis.  But now its mostly about his and his regime’s survival.

I'm not going to pretend to get into the mind of a killer, but I think there is definitely more than just greed for gaining territory and resources. That's definitely a part of it. As is NATO expansion right up to their borders. As is the US trying to rip Ukraine out of Russia's sphere of influence by helping stage a coup and install a puppet gov't in Ukraine in 2014. There's a lot of moving parts, history, and context to this thing. No wars of aggression are ever justified. That's why pretty much every single one from the dawn of time has had propaganda that's helped to sell it/push it. No different than the US propaganda during all our wars in the middle east that "they hate us for our freedom and McDonalds and because we're so AWESOME GUIS!" or that whole "WMD's in IRAQ!". Putin is full of shit with his propaganda to justify his war of aggression- but that's just par for the course when it comes to war in general.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 04, 2022, 07:47:10 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 04, 2022, 04:28:55 PM

the “it was a long time ago, forget about” argument that Americans try to always say about everything is a massively stupid one.

do people really think Native American tribes will ever forget about being conquered and wiped out? Or Jews will just forget about the holocaust? Has anyone seen how aggressive and hostile Israel is to any nation who even hints at threats? They do not fk around even a little bit.

America is basically brand new in the scheme of things, and it might be the only nation on the planet that has never been basically totally destroyed by war. We’ve been very lucky that we haven’t really been touched by war and it’s devastation on our shores.

So America is brand new and because Napolean attacked Russia in 1812 & Hitler in 1941 that gets Vlad a pass at brutally attacking his neighbor totally unprovoked for his own ulterior motives.Makes perfect sense, political science major you are.

 (https://i.imgur.com/3YFFq1q.png) 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 04, 2022, 09:09:36 PM

Mdot, you would do well to stop listening to whatever Kremlin propaganda mill that you're getting your talking points from.

Vlad's 2022 invasion of Ukraine was proof that if you appease a bully, he's going to keep coming. And it's funny you reference the bombing of Pearl Harbor. Both were and are gigantic strategic blunders. For the Japanese, it got the Americans fully and unequivocally into World War II with a huge rallying point instead of keeping them out of the war for as long as possible. For Vlad, he thought the Russian army was going to roll into Kyiv in three days and install a Kremlin stooge. I guarantee he thought the entire populace of Kyiv would greet the Russian army with cheers and kisses, not Molotov cocktails.

Even if a negotiation involves not voluntarily giving up Crimea, the Russian army looks utterly unable to hold it, or it's water supply. I've been in homeless encampments that were in better condition than what passes for Russian army barracks. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 04, 2022, 10:09:21 PM

I'm not trying to make a political post that bothers anyone or anything....this absolutely not about party vs party, as I initially suggested his party nominate someone else (anyone else), but I have to ask:

as Herschel Walker goes down a laundry list of ways to screw up, prove to be out of his depth, and reach unprecedented levels of hypocrisy, how is he still in a tight race?!????

What are these people voting on?  If a candidate can literally be the opposite of everything you want him to be, is there any point where they don't vote for him?!?  I see no valid reasoning here.  What am I missing??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 04, 2022, 10:17:33 PM

I used to live in a city heavy on 1870s architecture ... for reasons. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 04, 2022, 10:17:52 PM

Don't know anything bout Hershel Walker's political career, so can't comment on that.

In semi-related news, wasn't Tom Osborne a congressman or something?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 04, 2022, 10:23:35 PM

House of Representatives 2000-2006

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 04, 2022, 10:25:06 PM

 doubt Tom ever muttered anything as nonsensical as Herschel's statements the past month or so

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 04, 2022, 10:48:04 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/296976524_449910183678744_3503837555699795988_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=KL29PhaX6SQAX8HgF8F&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9Sj8QFohm03ZZ2UsJyxEgzAq-tLs0i2KsoIkJfwHIvaw&oe=63414108)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 05, 2022, 02:52:24 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 04, 2022, 10:25:06 PM

doubt Tom ever muttered anything as nonsensical as Herschel's statements the past month or so

at least he knows not to look for dead people in his audience 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 08:00:14 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 04, 2022, 10:09:21 PM

What are these people voting on?  If a candidate can literally be the opposite of everything you want him to be, is there any point where they don't vote for him?!?  I see no valid reasoning here.  What am I missing??

My overly simple model is that ~40% vote Dem no matter what and 40% vot Rep no matter what.  They support their party the way we support our team.  The 20% in the middle decide outcomes (along with turnout), and about half of that 20% doesn't pay much attention to current events.

I personally can't think of an elected official at the Federal level I admire and respect.  I tend to think we'd be better off with the first thousand names in the Boston phone book.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 05, 2022, 08:28:53 AM

SITE OF THE DAY:

Behind The Curtain
We are combining the data we've been collecting on corporate lobbying, congressional stock trading, and proposed legislation in order to allow you to track what is going on behind the scenes in Washington, D.C. You can use this tool to see which bills are being considered by Congress, which publicly traded companies are lobbying on those bills, and which congressmen have traded stock in those companies.


https://www.quiverquant.com/sources/behind-the-curtain/ (https://www.quiverquant.com/sources/behind-the-curtain/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2022, 08:59:14 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 04, 2022, 10:09:21 PM

What are these people voting on?  If a candidate can literally be the opposite of everything you want him to be, is there any point where they don't vote for him?!?  I see no valid reasoning here.  What am I missing??

Well, no vote has occurred yet, and most polls over the past decade have proven to be shams.

What are you missing? Easy answer to that. It's not about who people vote for. It's about who they vote against.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 09:08:39 AM

The polls I've seen for GA elections over the past decade have been pretty accurate for whatever reason.  That doesn't mean this poll is close of course, but name recognition alone is a factor in elections.  And I agree, voting for the perceived LOTE is often a major factor considered the candidates we often see on the ballot.

My guess is most freshman Senators vote party line anyway.  So, even a bad candidate in YOUr party is going to vote mostly how you want him or her to.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 05, 2022, 09:17:19 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 05, 2022, 02:52:24 AM

at least he knows not to look for dead people in his audience

Probably doesn't think that men can get pregnant either. So that elevates him to a much higher plane of intelligence than an entire political party. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 05, 2022, 10:23:16 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 05, 2022, 09:17:19 AM

Probably doesn't think that men can get pregnant either. So that elevates him to a much higher plane of intelligence than an entire political party.

ZING!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 11:30:13 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 05, 2022, 09:17:19 AM

Probably doesn't think that men can get pregnant either. So that elevates him to a much higher plane of intelligence than an entire political party.

I think this is a very minority point of view by some very PC folks who don't want to state the obvious.  It's not at all the view of an entire political party.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 05, 2022, 12:20:16 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 11:30:13 AM

I think this is a very minority point of view by some very PC folks who don't want to state the obvious.  It's not at all the view of an entire political party.

Then those that don't believe that need to be more vocal and take their party back from the nutjobs. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 05, 2022, 12:28:43 PM

https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1577646536917385217?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1577646536917385217%7Ctwgr%5Ec6e5b86dd6c0cddc06d85073b51ae979b75b0eb5%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.elevenwarriors.com%2Fforum%2Fohio-state-football%2F2022%2F10%2F133608%2Fpff-grades-miyan-williams-best-rb-in-football-through-5-weeks

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 12:34:39 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 05, 2022, 12:20:16 PM

Then those that don't believe that need to be more vocal and take their party back from the nutjobs.

I suspect "they" don't see a need to correct every outlandish thing some kook says, much as Republicans often don't see a need to rebut something an extremist associated with their party has said.  For one thing, it calls attention to it, and for another, it would be nonstop.  And of course it affords good grist for Fox News to highlight (or MSNBC in reverse).

Many news outlets to me seem to be almost entirely focused on what silliness someone in the other party  may have done.

(https://i.imgur.com/cmplDbV.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 05, 2022, 12:58:38 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 11:30:13 AM

I think this is a very minority point of view by some very PC folks who don't want to state the obvious.  It's not at all the view of an entire political party.

and yet no dem denounces it from the media or politicians 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 05, 2022, 01:03:46 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 12:34:39 PM

I suspect "they" don't see a need to correct every outlandish thing some kook says, 

and thats why they will lose between 30 and 40 seats in the House from the midterm election

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 05, 2022, 01:17:54 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 04, 2022, 10:09:21 PM

What are these people voting on?  If a candidate can literally be the opposite of everything you want him to be, is there any point where they don't vote for him?!?  I see no valid reasoning here.  What am I missing??

he's a celebrity and legend in the state. enough said. I think most 'Mericans vote for people they like, and that's pretty much it. How you think Arnie got elected governor of California and Trump elected as President. If they weren't celebs neither would've won. Same thing going on here for Walker- only reason he's in the race.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 05, 2022, 01:26:14 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 05, 2022, 01:17:54 PM

he's a celebrity and legend in the state. enough said. I think most 'Mericans vote for people they like, and that's pretty much it. How you think Arnie got elected governor of California and Trump elected as President. If they weren't celebs neither would've won. Same thing going on here for Walker- only reason he's in the race.

I'd vote for my cat if it would ensure GOP control of the Senate

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 05, 2022, 01:51:49 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 12:34:39 PM

I suspect "they" don't see a need to correct every outlandish thing some kook says, much as Republicans often don't see a need to rebut something an extremist associated with their party has said.  

Then they are allowing the extreme nut cases in the party, define them all. 

The funny part is, when this whole thing came up then SCOTUS candidate Justice Brown not being able to define what a women was, I asked a friend that votes Dem about that and she defended her saying that we really don't know how to differentiate between men and women. This person is not a radical left wing nut job, but did not want to admit to the idiocy being spouted by the party she supports, that she could not argue against them. 

People have lost their minds these days. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 01:55:43 PM

Ian and the politics of storm relief - POLITICO (https://www.politico.com/newsletters/florida-playbook/2022/10/03/ian-and-the-politics-of-storm-relief-00059963)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 01:56:29 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 05, 2022, 01:51:49 PM

Then they are allowing the extreme nut cases in the party, define them all.

The funny part is, when this whole thing came up then SCOTUS candidate Justice Brown not being able to define what a women was, I asked a friend that votes Dem about that and she defended her saying that we really don't know how to differentiate between men and women. This person is not a radical left wing nut job, but did not want to admit to the idiocy being spouted by the party she supports, that she could not argue against them.

People have lost their minds these days.

Maybe your friend is not a biologist.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 05, 2022, 01:57:11 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 01:56:29 PM

Maybe your friend is not a biologist.

...or particularly observant...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 05, 2022, 02:11:45 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 12:34:39 PM

I suspect "they" don't see a need to correct every outlandish thing some kook says, much as Republicans often don't see a need to rebut something an extremist associated with their party has said.  For one thing, it calls attention to it, and for another, it would be nonstop.  And of course it affords good grist for Fox News to highlight (or MSNBC in reverse).

Many news outlets to me seem to be almost entirely focused on what silliness someone in the other party  may have done.

(https://i.imgur.com/cmplDbV.png)

“ some kook”.  Lol. Come on man, you have people testifying before Congress that men can get pregnant. Multiple people. You have a Supreme Court justice who claims that. Stop pretending that it is a minority and an extreme position.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 05, 2022, 02:13:25 PM

OPEC announces they are cutting oil production by 2 million barrels per day. This is just a few months after Biden flew over to Saudi Arabia and got on all fours and sucked some Saudi D and begged them to drill baby drill. 

Everyone can expect gas prices at the pump to shoot up soon. 

Just find it comical a political novice like Trump basically had the Saudis wrapped around his little finger, and this brain dead senile fkn retard career do nothing 50+ year politician can’t even get them to take his phone calls. 😂 

He has to fly over there and BEG for a meeting and beg them to increase production, only for them to tell him to pound sand and then months later announce they are cutting production, not increasing it. 😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 02:26:10 PM

I suspect oil prices will go up, but not "shoot up".  I think OPEC+ is targeting for around $100/bbl, which would mean a 10% or so increase in gasoline prices, less really because factors like taxes and refining costs remain constant.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 05, 2022, 02:52:34 PM

Still it's interesting timing with respect to midterm elections and the story that Biden was trying to craft on behalf of the Democrats.

The Saudis must REALLY hate themselves some Biden.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 02:55:05 PM

I suspect the timing has more to do with falling oil prices than a US election.

Most folks won't really notice a 10% increase in gasoline prices enough to alter their vote.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2022, 03:16:43 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 02:55:05 PM

I suspect the timing has more to do with falling oil prices than a US election.

Most folks won't really notice a 10% increase in gasoline prices enough to alter their vote.

???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 05, 2022, 03:16:47 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 02:55:05 PM

I suspect the timing has more to do with falling oil prices than a US election.

Most folks won't really notice a 10% increase in gasoline prices enough to alter their vote.

nope that happened already

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2022, 03:23:16 PM

A 10% increase in fuel means a 10% increase in everything.

Trucks, ships, planes and trains don't get to Costco on solar power.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2022, 03:27:05 PM

Meant to post earlier. Saw Marine One pass by our marina a little bit ago. POTUS probably flew into Sarasota. Maybe Fort Myers. 

Marine One was escorted by 3 massive and loud copters but I couldn't see well enough to know that kind. They were black. 

It's good that he's here, I guess. It's been 8 days.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 03:35:56 PM

I think any President touring a disaster area is a PR stunt with negative consequences.  I know it's expected today, but he can get a good briefing without visiting and causing the usual ruckus of such a visit, and of course it doesn't mean he's going to DO anything differently anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2022, 03:48:21 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 03:35:56 PM

I think any President touring a disaster area is a PR stunt with negative consequences.  I know it's expected today, but he can get a good briefing without visiting and causing the usual ruckus of such a visit, and of course it doesn't mean he's going to DO anything differently anyway.

Well, he thanked the Governor for having him, and then proceeded to talk about wildfires and water shortages out West. Then he took the opportunity to pounce on climate change.

Ugh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 05, 2022, 04:11:52 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2022, 03:48:21 PM

Well, he thanked the Governor for having him, and then proceeded to talk about wildfires and water shortages out West. Then he took the opportunity to pounce on climate change.

Ugh.

:57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 05, 2022, 07:09:06 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2022, 03:48:21 PM

Well, he thanked the Governor for having him, and then proceeded to talk about wildfires and water shortages out West. Then he took the opportunity to pounce on climate change.

Ugh.

well he should know all about what the climate used to be like back in the prehistoric ages- he is a dinosaur. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 05, 2022, 07:10:14 PM

Quote from: utee94 on October 05, 2022, 02:52:34 PM

Still it's interesting timing with respect to midterm elections and the story that Biden was trying to craft on behalf of the Democrats.

The Saudis must REALLY hate themselves some Biden.

the guy is a clown- no leader on the world stage respects him. he's an embarrassment to the United States of America.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 05, 2022, 07:10:43 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2022, 03:23:16 PM

A 10% increase in fuel means a 10% increase in everything.

Trucks, ships, planes and trains don't get to Costco on solar power.

yup. so much for curbing inflation....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 05, 2022, 07:27:45 PM

Boy, the echo chamber is going strong, I see.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 05, 2022, 07:57:52 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 05, 2022, 07:27:45 PM

Boy, the echo chamber is going strong, I see.

“I'm not trying to make a political post that bothers anyone or anything....this absolutely not about party vs party, as I initially suggested his party nominate someone else (anyone else), but I have to ask:

as Herschel Walker goes down a laundry list of ways to screw up, prove to be out of his depth, and reach unprecedented levels of hypocrisy, how is he still in a tight race?!????

What are these people voting on?  If a candidate can literally be the opposite of everything you want him to be, is there any point where they don't vote for him?!?  I see no valid reasoning here.  What am I missing??”


you do see the irony dont you?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 05, 2022, 08:27:20 PM

I'm critical of an individual candidate, not a party.  I was critical of him before he won his nomination.  

As for the people voting for him.......they're actively making sure their wants and needs are poorly represented.  And that's on them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 05, 2022, 08:48:49 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 02:55:05 PM

I suspect the timing has more to do with falling oil prices than a US election.

Most folks won't really notice a 10% increase in gasoline prices enough to alter their vote.

Perhaps you my friend have plenty of $$$ but speak for yourself

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 05, 2022, 09:13:19 PM

https://youtu.be/TbQbEjqygUo

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 10:23:28 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 05, 2022, 08:48:49 PM

Perhaps you my friend have plenty of $$$ but speak for yourself

Will it alter your vote?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 06, 2022, 08:04:30 AM

If I know exactly who is resposible and who connected they are yes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 06, 2022, 08:40:14 AM

It takes a lot to alter votes for most folks, they have "their team" and will vote that way no matter what.

Some really BIG news can change votes with them, or depress them so they don't vote.  Many of "us" vote simply for the perceived LOTE.

Take Walker, for example, let's stipulate for the moment he's unqualified to be Senator.  He's still a reliable Republican vote.  If you want a Republican Senate, you vote for him, simple as that, no matter what else might be afoot.  (We could of course stipulate Warnock is unqualified also and reverse this, same thing.)

Just as we're OSU ot Wisconsin or Michigan fans, MOST voters are D or R fans.  It keeps life simpler.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 06, 2022, 09:36:09 AM

On the brink of a dangerous new nuclear era | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/3676181-on-the-brink-of-a-dangerous-new-nuclear-era/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 06, 2022, 09:56:39 AM

so are prices at the pumps going up today, just on the message from OPEC?

or will it be 20-30 days from now when that oil actually makes it through the refinery and is delivered to stations?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 06, 2022, 10:00:37 AM

From my observations in recent years, prices go up almost immediately upon the mere whispers of any bad news, and don't drop until well after that "high-priced oil" is flushed through the system.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 06, 2022, 10:02:19 AM

Time to start shooting Oil Execs,freeking a fire in Indianapolis what 2 months back now one in Toledo? Sure prolly a garbage can at a McDonalds next to the refinery

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 06, 2022, 10:02:36 AM

that's my observation as well

Cincy seems to think it's mostly supply and demand

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 06, 2022, 10:03:39 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 06, 2022, 10:02:19 AM

Time to start shooting Oil Execs,freeking a fire in Indianapolis what 2 months back now one in Toledo? Sure prolly a garbage can at a McDonalds next to the refinery

that's how Putin handles it

well, the poor fellows might accidentally fall out a window

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 06, 2022, 10:03:52 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 06, 2022, 10:02:36 AM

that's my observation as well

Cincy seems to think it's mostly supply and demand

Cincy has a portfolio loaded in Oil stocks
  (https://c.tenor.com/SkA9x0uDcJkAAAAM/al-bundy-thumbs-up.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 06, 2022, 10:25:13 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 06, 2022, 10:00:37 AM

From my observations in recent years, prices go up almost immediately upon the mere whispers of any bad news, and don't drop until well after that "high-priced oil" is flushed through the system.

This does happen, but nearly every gas station is "independently owned", a very few are owned by the majors.

Costco is an exception, they price depending on the delivery.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on October 06, 2022, 10:27:05 AM

To many running the US right now high gas prices are a goal.  But they don't like the political blow back so they'll make sounds bemoaning the higher prices and point to faux villians, especially if they're up for re-election.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 06, 2022, 10:34:45 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 06, 2022, 10:02:36 AM

that's my observation as well

Cincy seems to think it's mostly supply and demand

Yes, and I think this is obvious in the history of pricing.  (And no, while I own a couple oil majors, they are a very minor part of my holdings.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 06, 2022, 10:51:06 AM

It's correlated to supply and demand but there are some obvious glaring examples of reactionary pricing and tacit collusion among sellers.

The fact that Costco consistently lags price increases and leads price decreases compared to its consumer competitors, is demonstrative of this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 06, 2022, 10:54:15 AM

The gas station on the Indian Reservation is cheaper than Costco. They are exempted from many of the taxes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 06, 2022, 10:59:38 AM

I want to try to explain a little bit about fuel prices here.

First, one of my roles is to do Financials for what is basically a glorified gas station (we sell avgas and Jet-A not 87 Octane for your car but the principles are the same.

We buy fuel in huge quantities (5-10k gallons per delivery) and obviously sell in much smaller quantities.

Quote from: utee94 on October 06, 2022, 10:00:37 AM

From my observations in recent years, prices go up almost immediately upon the mere whispers of any bad news, and don't drop until well after that "high-priced oil" is flushed through the system.

We'd LOVE to do this but, as a practical matter, we can't. 

We set our price to be about $1/gallon over our cost. That is roughly what we need to cover our expenses. However, our price is always $1/gal over the CURRENT cost, not $1/gal over what we actually paid for the fuel in our tank. Thus, when the price of fuel rises we show huge profits and when the price of fuel drops we show big losses. We have to do it this way because we can't overcharge for old (expensive) fuel when prices are dropping because our customers would go somewhere else. On the flip side, when prices rise we raise ours immediately even though the inventory was purchased at old prices for two reasons:

• The extra profits make up for our inevitable losses when prices drop, and
• Although the inventory was purchased at lower prices it will be replaced at higher prices so we have to keep up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 06, 2022, 11:07:13 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on October 06, 2022, 10:59:38 AM

I want to try to explain a little bit about fuel prices here.

First, one of my roles is to do Financials for what is basically a glorified gas station (we sell avgas and Jet-A not 87 Octane for your car but the principles are the same.

We buy fuel in huge quantities (5-10k gallons per delivery) and obviously sell in much smaller quantities.We'd LOVE to do this but, as a practical matter, we can't.

We set our price to be about $1/gallon over our cost. That is roughly what we need to cover our expenses. However, our price is always $1/gal over the CURRENT cost, not $1/gal over what we actually paid for the fuel in our tank. Thus, when the price of fuel rises we show huge profits and when the price of fuel drops we show big losses. We have to do it this way because we can't overcharge for old (expensive) fuel when prices are dropping because our customers would go somewhere else. On the flip side, when prices rise we raise ours immediately even though the inventory was purchased at old prices for two reasons:

• The extra profits make up for our inevitable losses when prices drop, and
• Although the inventory was purchased at lower prices it will be replaced at higher prices so we have to keep up.

I mentioned tacit collusion among retail sellers for these reasons.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 06, 2022, 11:12:22 AM

Brief fuel economics:

The big problem with fuel is that both the supply AND the demand are fairly inelastic in the short term.

Supply:
Producers can theoretically pump more or less but as a practical matter their major cost I'd the initial fixed cost of drilling the well and setting up the infrastructure (pumps, tanks, etc). Their marginal cost is practically zero because they don't pay for the oil they pump. Consequently, even if they are selling at a loss (considering their initial investment), they are much better off to sell at a loss than to not sell and lose even more. 

Increasing supply takes months or years. You can't just spontaneously wish an oil well into existence the day the price of crude hits your break-even price. Offshore oil rigs obviously take even longer so while price increases do cause production to increase, there is a long lead time. 

Demand:
When the price of gas increases we (consumers) have only a limited ability to cut use in the short-term. 

In the long term we can do things like:

• Trade the Suburan for an Equinox
• Trade the Equinox for a Prius
• Trade the Prius for a Tesla
• Move closer to work
• Etc

In the short-term we are generally stuck. We have to go to work and the only way to get there (for most of us) is whatever car is IN the garage. We can't just wave a wand and convert our gas-guzzling Suburban into and Equinox, Prius, or Tesla.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 06, 2022, 11:26:20 AM

Hell yes expertise about oil markets. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 06, 2022, 11:49:33 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 06, 2022, 10:34:45 AM

Yes, and I think this is obvious in the history of pricing.  (And no, while I own a couple oil majors, they are a very minor part of my holdings.)

Providing a very major slice of your windfalls

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 06, 2022, 11:52:23 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 06, 2022, 11:49:33 AM

Providing a very major slice of your windfalls

Mine too. :)


I'm not really complaining about the ideal state, or real state, of economics related to the retail price of gasoline.  I'm just commenting on the real-world dynamics of that market.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 06, 2022, 11:57:33 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 06, 2022, 10:51:06 AM

 but there are some obvious glaring examples of reactionary pricing and tacit collusion among sellers.

Testify 94 Testify

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 06, 2022, 11:57:58 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 06, 2022, 11:52:23 AM

Mine too. :)

BASTAGE

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 06, 2022, 12:16:52 PM

I blame the Bush family

and T-Boone Pickens and Jerry Jones

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 06, 2022, 12:32:08 PM

I blame CD and utee,money grubbing profiteers subjuging the working classes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 06, 2022, 12:52:42 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 06, 2022, 11:49:33 AM

Providing a very major slice of your windfalls

My oil investments have vastly underperformed relative to most others, vastly.  My previous money managed had bought 4-5 and I sold most of them off 3-4 years back.  I still have Shell and Oxy Pete, that's it.  I bought one fund that is based on natural materials and that one has oil of course.  This was when it looked like inflation was going to kick in about a year or so ago.

I own a little of a gold minig company that has also underperformed, as has gold and PMs.

I view the major oil companies the same way I view all large companies, with a jaundiced eye as they say.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 06, 2022, 01:05:14 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 05, 2022, 08:27:20 PM

I'm critical of an individual candidate, not a party.  I was critical of him before he won his nomination. 

As for the people voting for him.......they're actively making sure their wants and needs are poorly represented.  And that's on them.

I don't know too much about this race or Georgia politics in general, and I obviously can't speak for the Georgia voters.  But here's my best guess.

The biggest portion of his "supporters" are going to be what Cincy said...that 80% of people registered to a party who are going to vote party affiliation no matter what.  It's the same with the majority of voters who will not vote for him....both sides probably don't know and don't care about many, if any, issues, or his personal character.  So expecting the needle to move a great deal without an earthquake by political standards isn't likely no matter what.  For that 20% of people who will try to inform themselves or have an opinion which may make it possible for them to vote against their party affiliation:

First thing to consider is the alternative.  If there is such a thing as the lesser of two evils, you could feel morally justified in trying to make sure the worst case doesn't occur, even if the alternative is also bad.  In particular, I think Walker is running against Warnock (?? right?  or not?), and there is probably a segment of voters who are thinking they'd take almost anybody over Warnock.  So if a voter considers Warnock an unmitigated disaster, they may not like Walker but still vote for him.  Exhibit A on a candidate being bad, but why people will still vote for them.  This applies both ways, obviously.  You could be a Democrat and really dislike a democratic candidate, but if the Republican alternative is the worst of the worst for how you'd like things to be done, you probably don't sway your vote just because "your" candidate sucks. 

Second thing to consider is how people view "now" vs. "then."  Megyn Kelly mentioned yesterday, I think, about how the new allegations that Herschel formerly paid for a woman pregnant with his child to have an abortion shows hypocrisy with his pro-life stance.  Someone could potentially disagree with that, although they may not.  I'm not sure when this is alleged to have happened, but suppose it was a while back, one may reasonably believe that Herschel used to be okay with abortion but has changed his mind.  Or that he was never okay with it yet acted wrongly according to his beliefs (hypocrisy), but would not behave that way anymore.  Kelly's position--which is a popular one--assumes that people are one thing all their lives and never change their mind or act wrongly according to their own beliefs, and that simply isn't true.  A voter who doesn't take that into account may agree with Kelly here (and thus be a voter who could swing away from supporting Walker), while a voter who does take it into account may continue to plan on voting for him.  This applies to any issue and is only an example I'm using to try to get in the heads of potential voters. 

A third thing to consider is how much people separate an office from the person holding it.  It is possible to view leaders in positions of importance similar to, say, airline pilots.....given the choice we'd like our pilot to be friendly and moral as well as a great pilot.  However, if given the choice between a pilot who is the nicest guy in the world and who is an okay pilot, vs. a guy who is an absolute and irredeemable a**hole but is a great pilot....we're taking the a**hole, because there are jobs and positions where ability to do the job is simply far more important than personal history in the minds of many.  If I had to guess, there is a segment of the voting population who will overlook the personal behavior of a candidate as long as they think that candidate will act in their interest if elected.  They may rather a candidate who is also nice and has no skeletons in the closet, but it's not irrational to overlook this in certain instances.  I thought I'd seen that Walker is significantly behind Warnock in the race, but if it's close, Walker may really need that type of voter, because the video his son just put out is not a good look.  And I'm told his son is very right-leaning.  So when your own kid trashes you and warns people about you, that's a big blow as far as losing the segment of the voters who won't overlook personal conduct/history. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 06, 2022, 01:19:14 PM

Warnock is a reliable Dem vote the Senate.  Walker would be a reliable Rep vote.  Beyond that, I don't really think there is a difference, though Walker might say things at times that are a bit "curious".

I'm getting barraged with ads now, nearly all negative, on sports channels.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 06, 2022, 04:52:00 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 06, 2022, 01:05:14 PM

I don't know too much about this race or Georgia politics in general, and I obviously can't speak for the Georgia voters.  But here's my best guess.

The biggest portion of his "supporters" are going to be what Cincy said...that 80% of people registered to a party who are going to vote party affiliation no matter what.  It's the same with the majority of voters who will not vote for him....both sides probably don't know and don't care about many, if any, issues, or his personal character.  So expecting the needle to move a great deal without an earthquake by political standards isn't likely no matter what.  For that 20% of people who will try to inform themselves or have an opinion which may make it possible for them to vote against their party affiliation:

First thing to consider is the alternative.  If there is such a thing as the lesser of two evils, you could feel morally justified in trying to make sure the worst case doesn't occur, even if the alternative is also bad.  In particular, I think Walker is running against Warnock (?? right?  or not?), and there is probably a segment of voters who are thinking they'd take almost anybody over Warnock.  So if a voter considers Warnock an unmitigated disaster, they may not like Walker but still vote for him.  Exhibit A on a candidate being bad, but why people will still vote for them.  This applies both ways, obviously.  You could be a Democrat and really dislike a democratic candidate, but if the Republican alternative is the worst of the worst for how you'd like things to be done, you probably don't sway your vote just because "your" candidate sucks. 

Second thing to consider is how people view "now" vs. "then."  Megyn Kelly mentioned yesterday, I think, about how the new allegations that Herschel formerly paid for a woman pregnant with his child to have an abortion shows hypocrisy with his pro-life stance.  Someone could potentially disagree with that, although they may not.  I'm not sure when this is alleged to have happened, but suppose it was a while back, one may reasonably believe that Herschel used to be okay with abortion but has changed his mind.  Or that he was never okay with it yet acted wrongly according to his beliefs (hypocrisy), but would not behave that way anymore.  Kelly's position--which is a popular one--assumes that people are one thing all their lives and never change their mind or act wrongly according to their own beliefs, and that simply isn't true.  A voter who doesn't take that into account may agree with Kelly here (and thus be a voter who could swing away from supporting Walker), while a voter who does take it into account may continue to plan on voting for him.  This applies to any issue and is only an example I'm using to try to get in the heads of potential voters. 

A third thing to consider is how much people separate an office from the person holding it.  It is possible to view leaders in positions of importance similar to, say, airline pilots.....given the choice we'd like our pilot to be friendly and moral as well as a great pilot.  However, if given the choice between a pilot who is the nicest guy in the world and who is an okay pilot, vs. a guy who is an absolute and irredeemable a**hole but is a great pilot....we're taking the a**hole, because there are jobs and positions where ability to do the job is simply far more important than personal history in the minds of many.  If I had to guess, there is a segment of the voting population who will overlook the personal behavior of a candidate as long as they think that candidate will act in their interest if elected.  They may rather a candidate who is also nice and has no skeletons in the closet, but it's not irrational to overlook this in certain instances.  I thought I'd seen that Walker is significantly behind Warnock in the race, but if it's close, Walker may really need that type of voter, because the video his son just put out is not a good look.  And I'm told his son is very right-leaning.  So when your own kid trashes you and warns people about you, that's a big blow as far as losing the segment of the voters who won't overlook personal conduct/history. 

I appreciate the post, but it's not JUST the abortion thing.  It's numerous bright red burning-hot flags that disqualify him as a candidate for any office, much less the US fucking Senate.  

It's the people who used to just want a nice, Christian candidate that now are voting for the most despicable of us.  Somehow, somewhere along the way, the people who wanted less government became FOR stupid government.  As if it's some self-fulfilling prophecy:  they vote in the most absurd candidates possible and then point and yell about how bad the government is.  WTF?!?

And like I'm pleading with Republicans here.....don't you want the more-qualified candidate?  The more ethical one?  The more trustworthy one?  
The problem that I see in the Walker case is that it's "none of the above" attributes and they're still voting for him.  I simply cannot wrap my head around that.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 06, 2022, 04:55:27 PM

apparently, some people see Warnock as less qualified than Walker

it's just their opinion

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 06, 2022, 04:56:35 PM

I don't see why this is so puzzling.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 06, 2022, 04:59:35 PM

And if anyone doubts me, if Trump had run as a Democrat (which he well could-have), I would have voted for anyone else.  
I'd have voted for the gay conversion guy.
I'd have voted for the prodigal little brother that never was.
I'd have voted for the fake Cuban guy.
I'd have voted for the frumpy cuck from Texas.
.
Because at some point, the candidate you disagree with in every way is at some point more competent than the candidate that more aligns with your ideals (unless not, in which case you're actively ruining our country).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 06, 2022, 05:00:00 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 06, 2022, 04:55:27 PM

apparently, some people see Warnock as less qualified than Walker

it's just their opinion

I guess Warnock should have run for more yards in college, huh?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 06, 2022, 05:00:30 PM

me either

folks don't need a reason A tall to chose a candidate

certainly don't need a good reason or an educated thoughtful reason

it can be a logical as some folks deciding to bet on a football game based of the color of the uniform

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 06, 2022, 05:01:11 PM

Kemp leading Abrams in latest Georgia governor polling   | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3676759-kemp-leading-abrams-in-latest-georgia-governor-polling/)

This is the more interesting item, I think, apparently quite a few voters polled like Kemp but not Walker (about a 5% spread).

Or they dislike Abrams more than Warnock.  So, that group in the middle that decides elections (usually) is OK with Kemp but not as OK with Herschel.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 06, 2022, 05:01:21 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 06, 2022, 05:00:00 PM

I guess Warnock should have run for more yards in college, huh?

wouldn't have hurt

folks in the south sure love their college football

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 06, 2022, 05:01:39 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 06, 2022, 04:56:35 PM

I don't see why this is so puzzling.

Because it's a fact that a good democrat is better than a bad republican, even if you're a republican
AND
a good republican is better than a bad democrat, even if you're a democrat.
.
I know that there are many people who refuse to believe it, but just because those people exist doesn't make them sane.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 06, 2022, 05:02:36 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 06, 2022, 05:00:30 PM

me either

folks don't need a reason A tall to chose a candidate

certainly don't need a good reason or an educated thoughtful reason

it can be a logical as some folks deciding to bet on a football game based of the color of the uniform

You're right, imagine if each house election was done by ping-pong ball lottery style.  
THe ratings would be through the roof!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 06, 2022, 05:03:14 PM

As I noted, may folks want Republican control in the Senate.  It could be a dog running for that spot, they want the Republican vote.  This is not remotely puzzling.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 06, 2022, 05:04:38 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 06, 2022, 05:01:39 PM

Because it's a fact that a good democrat is better than a bad republican, even if you're a republican

This assertion is simply not true for many voters (even if they think it's a bad republican).  That's the very clear simple point yo refuse to acknowledge.

It's not somehow "insane" to want a Republican Senate (or the reverse).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 06, 2022, 05:07:11 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 06, 2022, 04:59:35 PM

And if anyone doubts me, if Trump had run as a Democrat (which he well could-have), I would have voted for anyone else. 

if Hillary had run as a Repub or independent, I'd have voted for anyone else, even Herschel Walker

this is easy - I understand it

I don't know much about Herschel politically.  He's not in my state and it bothers me to see or hear his statements
He very well might have taken a few too many shots to the head.  Heck, when he joined the Minnesooota Vikings he was mostly a basket case sitting near the tailpipe of his running car in a closed up garage.
But, I've not heard that he's nearly as evil as Hillary

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 06, 2022, 05:32:03 PM

so, no college football tonight???

so, no thursday night football, cause I'm not paying Bezo to root against the Donkeys

apparently, I don't dislike them or their fans that much

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 06, 2022, 05:55:03 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 05, 2022, 02:13:25 PM

OPEC announces they are cutting oil production by 2 million barrels per day. This is just a few months after Biden flew over to Saudi Arabia and got on all fours and sucked some Saudi D and begged them to drill baby drill.

Everyone can expect gas prices at the pump to shoot up soon.

Just find it comical a political novice like Trump basically had the Saudis wrapped around his little finger, and this brain dead senile fkn retard career do nothing 50+ year politician can’t even get them to take his phone calls. 😂

He has to fly over there and BEG for a meeting and beg them to increase production, only for them to tell him to pound sand and then months later announce they are cutting production, not increasing it. 😂

Saudi Arabia is raising oil prices for the US market again, while lowering them for Europe and leaving them largely unchanged for Asia.

November shipments of Arab Light crude to Asia from state-run producer Saudi Aramco will remain steady at $5.85 per barrel above benchmark prices. A Bloomberg survey estimated prices in Asia, the kingdom's top market, would rise by $0.40 per barrel.

Elsewhere, Saudi Aramco hiked prices by $0.20 a barrel for all US grades, while northwest Europe and the Mediterranean saw declines. While Asian prices for the company's light oil was flat, its medium and heavy-grade crude prices ticked up in Asia by $0.25.

Last month, Saudi Aramco also lowered prices in Europe and raised them in the US.

The latest shakeup in prices comes a day after OPEC+ slashed its production quota by 2 million barrels per day, or roughly 2% of global oil supply.

The cut was seen as a defeat for President Joe Biden, who has been pressing OPEC's de facto leader Saudi Arabia for an output boost that would ease fuel prices.

On Wednesday, the White House accused OPEC+ of "aligning with Russia" by lowering its quota, which comes at a time when "maintaining a global supply of energy is of paramount importance."

Analysts are noting the heightened political environment of OPEC's moves, as fresh European sanctions on Russian oil loom later this year as well as a price cap on Moscow's crude.

"This is hugely political and a very clear signal of OPEC's discontent regarding the price cap," Amrita Sen, chief oil analyst at Energy Aspects, told the Financial Times. "Regardless of whether the price cap is actually effective, they see this as a dangerous precedent."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 06, 2022, 06:23:52 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/311228343_10160133731531866_6020312819879298752_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=WMYqH8ig2ykAX_6JgIb&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT8qNxG93VRx9ipZwHKWfBHj3MW6sEr73Yjb14h4RtBMSw&oe=63439FB3)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 06, 2022, 07:45:32 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 06, 2022, 05:55:03 PM

Saudi Arabia is raising oil prices for the US market again, while lowering them for Europe and leaving them largely unchanged for Asia.

They prolly figured they're going to blamed anyway so why not - this happened in the '70s Wall Street blaming the Mullahs/Sheikhs 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 07, 2022, 12:34:54 AM

I was thinking back to one of these that we had going after Ferguson, and I hadn't kept up with the story enough to know that the guy's name was Mike Brown. So I was reading someone's rant about it, and I was picturing Mike Brown the owner of the Cincinnati Bengals beating up Arabs and stealing blunt shells so that he can smoke weed, and I remember thinking "come on guys. This sounds like bullshit. I mean, I know that the man is notoriously cheap, but he doesn't need to be out there doing stuff like this. He has millions." 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on October 07, 2022, 07:02:44 AM

https://twitter.com/katyasedgwick/status/1574273330072338433?s=46&t=uMgi9Ru7CiXxqlAGFg9k6A (https://twitter.com/katyasedgwick/status/1574273330072338433?s=46&t=uMgi9Ru7CiXxqlAGFg9k6A)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 07, 2022, 07:50:21 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on October 07, 2022, 07:02:44 AM

https://twitter.com/katyasedgwick/status/1574273330072338433?s=46&t=uMgi9Ru7CiXxqlAGFg9k6A (https://twitter.com/katyasedgwick/status/1574273330072338433?s=46&t=uMgi9Ru7CiXxqlAGFg9k6A)

Par for the course with this kind of crap.

The whole “f you russian battleship” and “ghost of Kiev” fighter pilot - turned out to be all bullshit. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 07, 2022, 08:22:55 AM

Propaganda is an essential part of warfare.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 07, 2022, 08:34:39 AM

Over half of Ukraine’s fielded tank fleet may consist of captured vehicles, UK says

Britain’s Defense Ministry said in its daily intelligence update that repurposed captured Russian equipment now makes up a large proportion of Ukraine’s military hardware.
“Ukraine has likely captured at least 440 Russian Main Battle Tanks, and around 650 other armoured vehicles since the invasion. Over half of Ukraine’s currently fielded tank fleet potentially consists of captured vehicles,” the ministry said via Twitter.
“The failure of Russian crews to destroy intact equipment before withdrawing or surrendering highlights their poor state of training and low levels of battle discipline,” it added.
The ministry said Russian forces were likely to continue to lose heavy weaponry, with its formations “under severe strain in several sectors and increasingly demoralised troops.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 07, 2022, 09:35:01 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 07, 2022, 08:22:55 AM

Propaganda is an essential part of warfare.

essential is a pretty strong word here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 07, 2022, 09:36:15 AM

https://consensus.app/ (https://consensus.app/)

Consensus

Scientific research is the most valuable, insight-filled source of data to ever exist. Yet, the current consumers of this information are the same people who are creating it. We are striving to build the tools that democratize scientific evidence and make the world a better place, by making it a more informed place.

_________________________________________________ ______

"they" certainly wouldn't put any propaganda on this site

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 07, 2022, 11:30:25 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 07, 2022, 07:50:21 AM

Par for the course with this kind of crap.

The whole “f you russian battleship” and “ghost of Kiev” fighter pilot - turned out to be all bullshit.

As did the whole "Putin's not a psychotic dictator obsessed with reassembling the USSR, he's just afraid of NATO expansion."

Absolute Pure Unadulterated Bullshit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 07, 2022, 11:37:22 AM

I prefer my BS to be impure and adulterated. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 07, 2022, 11:38:46 AM

If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 07, 2022, 11:41:58 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 07, 2022, 11:30:25 AM

As did the whole "Putin's not a psychotic dictator obsessed with reassembling the USSR, he's just afraid of NATO expansion."

Absolute Pure Unadulterated Bullshit.

APUB

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 07, 2022, 11:42:21 AM

I follow various news sites pretty much daily, several "business news" sites (which I find generally are less biased than others) and then the usual Fox/CNN/NPR/TheHill/etc.  They are like living in two different worlds often as not (three if I include biz sites).  For grins, I check MSNBC on occasion, they to me are close to being like these far right "news" sites, pretty close to 100% anti-Trump/republican/whatever.  Granted, much of the "news" on Fox is clearly anti-Biden, but they do sneak some news in on occasion here and there.  I also find Fox sells "fear", they will emphasize something scary more than most of the others.  I gather it gets clicks.

I find myself sort of smiling at times perusing one then another.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 07, 2022, 11:44:49 AM

don't think I'd enjoy analyzing news sites for entertainment

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 07, 2022, 11:47:20 AM

I get all of my news from the "In Other News" thread on CFB51.com

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 07, 2022, 11:48:27 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 07, 2022, 11:47:20 AM

I get all of my news from the "In Other News" thread on CFB51.com

Oh shit. You must be warped.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 07, 2022, 11:52:19 AM

We all are.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 07, 2022, 11:54:57 AM

Updates:

We are doing OK. Exhausted, but OK.

No more water boil is good. Still no power but linemen are out working on our place now. Still no propane delivery (today or Monday promised - yeah sure).

Thankfully picked up a 6.5KW Generac from Home Depot Sunday. 

Also, thankful to have the means to do stuff like that without worry.

The wife lent my RTic cooler out without asking me. Would be nice to have for drink ice. 

She will never do that again, trust me. She's on my shitlist, still. I'll send her out for gas and ice later as punishment.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 07, 2022, 12:03:10 PM

Quote from: utee94 on October 07, 2022, 11:47:20 AM

I get all of my news from the "In Other News" thread on CFB51.com

that's the majority for me for sure
I get some local news here from ABC

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 07, 2022, 12:18:20 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 07, 2022, 11:54:57 AM

Updates:

We are doing OK. Exhausted, but OK.

No more water boil is good. Still no power but linemen are out working on our place now. Still no propane delivery (today or Monday promised - yeah sure).

Thankfully picked up a 6.5KW Generac from Home Depot Sunday.

Also, thankful to have the means to do stuff like that without worry.

The wife lent my RTic cooler out without asking me. Would be nice to have for drink ice.

She will never do that again, trust me. She's on my shitlist, still. I'll send her out for gas and ice later as punishment.

I remember when our power was out for two weeks they restored it in stages

1st traffic lights 

2nd gas stations and shopping markets

3rd residential

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 07, 2022, 12:23:46 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 07, 2022, 12:18:20 PM

I remember when our power was out for two weeks they restored it in stages

1st traffic lights

2nd gas stations and shopping markets

3rd residential

That makes sense. Gotta keep people from killing each other on the road when they are on their way to pick up food supplies to replace the food lost to spoiling due to no power. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 07, 2022, 12:35:55 PM

good to have a major intersection with traffic lights & a gas station near your residential

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 07, 2022, 12:36:36 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 07, 2022, 12:03:10 PM

that's the majority for me for sure
I get some local news here from ABC

Our local Spectrum news channel is actually pretty great.  Mostly sticks to the highly-relevant local news, and when they hit national and international stories, it's as close as you can get to straight up reporting without agenda-driven bulljive, these days.  It reminds me of what the mainstream media were like back in the 70s and 80s.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on October 07, 2022, 01:18:58 PM

The just released FBI 2021 crime report omitted data from several large cities such as Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, and Philadelphia for some reason.  Nevertheless, the US murder rate rose 4% over the 2020 record increase.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 07, 2022, 01:28:21 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on October 07, 2022, 01:18:58 PM

The just released FBI 2021 crime report omitted data from several large cities such as Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, and Philadelphia for some reason.  Nevertheless, the US murder rate rose 4% over the 2020 record increase.

Data was omitted because the FBI changed/updated their report submission format and some departments haven't caught up yet.

More minorities have been killed over the last two years as a result of depolicing than were killed by police over the last fifty years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on October 07, 2022, 03:42:12 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on October 07, 2022, 01:28:21 PM

Data was omitted because the FBI changed/updated their report submission format and some departments haven't caught up yet.

More minorities have been killed over the last two years as a result of depolicing than were killed by police over the last fifty years.

Shocking ain’t it?  Turns out that maybe you do kind of need someone in charge, enforcing the laws, and maybe getting a little rowdy at times. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 07, 2022, 03:44:13 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/r5vogFy.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 07, 2022, 04:12:38 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on October 07, 2022, 01:28:21 PM

Data was omitted because the FBI changed/updated their report submission format and some departments haven't caught up yet.

More minorities have been killed over the last two years as a result of depolicing than were killed by police over the last fifty years.

studying criminal justice way back in the 80s at UNL

reporting practices can be changed to paint whatever picture is needed

lies, damn lies, & statistics

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 07, 2022, 04:46:16 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 06, 2022, 12:52:42 PM

My oil investments have vastly underperformed 

Sure,sure they have

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 07, 2022, 04:48:27 PM

Everything is underperforming right now.

F'ing disaster to peoples' retirement plans.

And I do not wonder why.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 07, 2022, 04:52:05 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 07, 2022, 04:48:27 PM

Everything is underperforming right now.

F'ing disaster to peoples' retirement plans.

And I do not wonder why.

things will turn around Nov 9th just hang on

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2022, 05:42:49 PM

You guys are like my uncle.  

Things are going well?  It's because the midterms are coming.
Things are going badly?  It's because Biden is a garbage loser incompetent hack.
.
Brilliant.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 07, 2022, 06:25:45 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2022, 05:42:49 PM

You guys are like my uncle. 

Things are going well?  It's because the midterms are coming.
Things are going badly?  It's because Biden is a garbage loser incompetent hack.
.
Brilliant.

youre right 2 times

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 08, 2022, 08:55:51 AM

On Friday, New York Mayor Eric Adams declared a state of emergency and announced an executive order to suspend land use requirements to help the city cope with the influx of people.

Adams said he was "angry" the city's compassion was being "exploited by others for political gain" and what he called a "humanitarian crisis" the mayor said is being "accelerated by American politics dynamics."

There are 61,000 people currently in the shelter system, "straining our ability to care for New Yorkers in need," Adams said. He expects the city will have spent $1 billion by the end of the fiscal year.


At least 5,500 migrant children have been enrolled in city schools.

"Although our compassion is limitless, our resources are not," Adams said during a speech from the City Hall Blue Room. "This is unsustainable."


_________________________________________________ ____________________

Perhaps every mayor in Texas should declare a state of emergency and tell Washington this is unsustainable

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 08, 2022, 09:00:29 AM

"Although our compassion is limitless, our resources are not," Adams said during a speech from the City Hall Blue Room. "This is unsustainable."

This is a great quote/point the Dem pinheads heads have gone to far just like the F***ing Oilmen

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 08, 2022, 09:12:19 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 08, 2022, 09:00:29 AM

"Although our compassion is limitless, our resources are not," Adams said during a speech from the City Hall Blue Room. "This is unsustainable."

This is a great quote

it's all the common sense the nation needs to get illegal immigration under control
apparently this one Dem understands now

________________________________

just needed it to slap him in the face

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2022, 09:15:46 AM

Immigration as I've noted before would lend itself to compromise, but neither party wants the issue to go away.  Minimum wage is another example of that.

Being "extreme" in positions attracts notice, money, resources, attention, etc.  Compromise does not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 08, 2022, 09:24:37 AM

Congress can codify abortion rights today. 

D's control everything until January.

But they won't do it, and we all know why they won't do it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 08, 2022, 09:25:02 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 07, 2022, 06:25:45 PM

youre right 2 times

2 of 3 ain't bad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2022, 09:27:50 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 08, 2022, 09:24:37 AM

Congress can codify abortion rights today.

D's control everything until January.

But they won't do it, and we all know why they won't do it.

I think it would require 60 votes in the Senate, such a bill would not be eligible for reconciliation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 08, 2022, 09:41:36 AM

I think they could 60 with a reasonable bill - Easily. More people are OK with abortion than not in this country.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2022, 09:44:25 AM

Maybe so, but it's not because Dems totally control the Senate.  And I think the SCOTUS ruling returned this to the states.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 08, 2022, 09:57:00 AM

No need for technicalities.

And Federal Law would win out. No state shall...

Same with weed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 08, 2022, 09:57:37 AM

But they won't do either.

Two less things to point fingers over.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2022, 10:20:40 AM

Federal law is fine unless SCOTUS says it isn't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 08, 2022, 10:30:02 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 08, 2022, 09:12:19 AM

it's all the common sense the nation needs to get illegal immigration under control
apparently this one Dem understands now

________________________________

just needed it to slap him in the face

If they fixed legal immigration, there'd be no need for people to do it illegally.  That system is broken.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2022, 10:33:54 AM

Folks would still come in illegally under any fix I can imagine short of total open borders.  If laws exist governing immigration, folks will break them (over staying visas for example).  But, yes, you could just open everything up and stop any effort at border control.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 08, 2022, 10:45:36 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 08, 2022, 10:33:54 AM

Folks would still come in illegally under any fix I can imagine short of total open borders.  If laws exist governing immigration, folks will break them (over staying visas for example).  But, yes, you could just open everything up and stop any effort at border control.

Mexican cartel violence on our side of the border would skyrocket, it would be a bloodbath in South Texas.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 08, 2022, 10:45:44 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 08, 2022, 10:20:40 AM

Federal law is fine unless SCOTUS says it isn't.

SCOTUS all but told everyone that Congress should pass a bill. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 08, 2022, 10:46:20 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 08, 2022, 10:45:36 AM

Mexican cartel violence on our side of the border would skyrocket, it would be a bloodbath in South Texas.

I'll take Texas in that fight.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2022, 10:48:31 AM

I don't think the political parties benefit from compromise.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 08, 2022, 10:50:17 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 08, 2022, 10:46:20 AM

I'll take Texas in that fight.

I'd love to be able to take on the cartels directly, but they're gruesome fighters.  They kidnap and murder your family if you don't comply.   It's all such a sad mess.  We used to go across the border into Nuevo Laredo 2 or 3 times per year, there's some great and historical bars and restaurants, and of course a ton of shopping.  Now, you'd have to be crazy to go across right there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2022, 10:53:04 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 08, 2022, 10:45:44 AM

SCOTUS all but told everyone that Congress should pass a bill.

Let's imagine they passed one making it legal up to 15 weeks, and some state says "nope, zero weeks".

I dunno what would happen.  The Feds don't have broad laws against murder but every state does.  Most laws are state, not Federal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 08, 2022, 11:04:04 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 08, 2022, 10:50:17 AM

I'd love to be able to take on the cartels directly, but they're gruesome fighters.  They kidnap and murder your family if you don't comply.  It's all such a sad mess.  We used to go across the border into Nuevo Laredo 2 or 3 times per year, there's some great and historical bars and restaurants, and of course a ton of shopping.  Now, you'd have to be crazy to go across right there.

I saw a headline a week or so ago (didn't click on it) that Trump was prepared to hit Cartel targets in Mexico with missiles. 
apparently, someone leaked the info and the plan was scrapped

the guy that was leaky might not have wanted his family murdered

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2022, 11:05:19 AM

Kerch bridge explosion: Massive blast hits Crimea-Russia crossing. Here's what we know | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/08/europe/crimea-bridge-explainer-russia-ukraine-intl/index.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 08, 2022, 11:06:35 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 08, 2022, 10:53:04 AM

Let's imagine they passed one making it legal up to 15 weeks, and some state says "nope, zero weeks".

I dunno what would happen.  The Feds don't have broad laws against murder but every state does.  Most laws are state, not Federal.

Nor do I - or anyone really.

That's why they should just do it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 08, 2022, 11:06:45 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 08, 2022, 10:30:02 AM

If they fixed legal immigration, there'd be no need for people to do it illegally.  That system is broken.

well, there's no good system that would allow for 10s of thousands per month entering 

no illegals in your classroom?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 08, 2022, 11:09:18 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 08, 2022, 10:30:02 AM

If they fixed legal immigration, there'd be no need for people to do it illegally.  That system is broken.

I like New Zealand's system.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 08, 2022, 11:15:36 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/9wUOzFe.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on October 08, 2022, 11:18:39 AM

It’s simple. Leadership in blue states is ok with border states taking in all the illegals and promoting sanctuary cities. We’re just giving them a taste of their own medicine. 

Besides, if they “fixed” immigration wouldn’t it stand to reason that we would be accepting equal amounts of people from all over the world and not just from a dozen countries south of the border?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 08, 2022, 01:56:42 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 08, 2022, 11:06:45 AM

well, there's no good system that would allow for 10s of thousands per month entering

no illegals in your classroom?

Right, so there's no area between taking years and years w/ lawyers and money AND tens of thousands flooding in per month, I guess.

Just have to pick one and never actually fix the problem.  Great take!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 08, 2022, 02:20:58 PM

fixing the grossly obvious problem on the southern border seems urgent

and nothings being done

why worry about something years and decades away?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 08, 2022, 02:21:38 PM

Quote from: Gigem on October 08, 2022, 11:18:39 AM

It’s simple. Leadership in blue states is ok with border states taking in all the illegals and promoting sanctuary cities. We’re just giving them a taste of their own medicine.

Besides, if they “fixed” immigration wouldn’t it stand to reason that we would be accepting equal amounts of people from all over the world and not just from a dozen countries south of the border? 

Cali is a blue state

Cali has a fence, but it doesn't work and they don't seem to care

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on October 08, 2022, 02:43:09 PM

And by most accounts Californians have been flowing their state by the thousands to get away from high taxes, crime, government overreach, and everything that goes along with unmitigated immigration. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 09, 2022, 12:24:27 AM

Oh NOWWW Walker acknowledges this new chick with the abortion(s).  

I guess something jogged his memory in the past few days.

Fucking joke.  Vote for him, Georgians.  You deserve him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 09, 2022, 07:28:11 AM

A US Senator of course is more of a nationwide position than State position for obvious reasons.  This story appears to be hurting Walker in recent polls.  I didn't see any recent news about it otherwise.

I don't see that anyone has proposed a specific "fix" for the immigration problem (I offered the outline of one a while back).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 09, 2022, 07:34:43 AM

We had a nice concert last night, Beethoven's Ninth, and we have a new lady music director, Natalie Stutzman, who despite her name is French.  They had a small party after and we met her and my wife spoke to her in French and relayed a message from Louis Langree' who was the music director in Cincinnati (who we got to know a bit also).  He had given my wife a text message to pass on to Natalie that caused some laughter for her.

I really have a hard time understanding how a human is capable of constructing such a symphony.  Then there is the musicianship to perform the thing with a 200 voice choir.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 09, 2022, 07:42:16 AM

UMass tried to troll Liberty by making it a "pride" game, but then promptly got their proverbial poop pushed by the Flames for a full 60 minutes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 09, 2022, 09:14:50 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 09, 2022, 07:28:11 AM

A US Senator of course is more of a nationwide position than State position for obvious reasons.  This story appears to be hurting Walker in recent polls.  I didn't see any recent news about it otherwise.

I don't see that anyone has proposed a specific "fix" for the immigration problem (I offered the outline of one a while back).

New Zealand.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 09, 2022, 09:30:47 AM

185 people killed in Iran protests: human rights group | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/international/3679922-185-people-killed-in-iran-protests-human-rights-group/)

I had not realized it was this severe.  Does this have legs?  Hmmm...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 09, 2022, 09:32:21 AM

going back to the course this morning

didn't play well yesterday but the weather was nice

weather will be better today - 76 and sunny with little wind

5-man scramble format today (sponsored by Coors $2 pints) - it's a shit show, but good male bonding for the team, good revenue for the course, and they bring back 3 beer cart girls from college!

FORE!!!

and it allows me a reason not to watch the Vikings/Bears game

SKOL!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 09, 2022, 11:48:20 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 09, 2022, 09:30:47 AM

185 people killed in Iran protests: human rights group | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/international/3679922-185-people-killed-in-iran-protests-human-rights-group/)

I had not realized it was this severe.  Does this have legs?  Hmmm...

Women tired of being oppressed vs a violent, religious government willing to kill over exposed hair......easy to root for the right side on this one.  Even for the worst of you all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 09, 2022, 11:48:43 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 09, 2022, 09:14:50 AM

New Zealand.

Good luck making the US an island.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 09, 2022, 12:41:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 09, 2022, 11:48:43 AM

Good luck making the US an island.

And good luck to you trying to immigrate to New Zealand.

Anyway, water is a good barrier to most.

I wouldn't tell that to Cubans and Haitians trying to flee their socialism though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 09, 2022, 12:46:52 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 09, 2022, 09:32:21 AM

going back to the course this morning

5-man scramble format today (sponsored by Coors $2 pints) - it's a shit show, but good male bonding for the team, good revenue for the course, and they bring back 3 beer cart girls from college!

Shyt at the game in Cleveland(Wed./Fri) - MLB is fetching 9.50 apiece.Hell i could practically fly out to your course drink my fill fly back and almost call it even.Plus factoring in the entertainment it'd be a win.Specially if i pick up the clubs - then i'd be taking the red eye back

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 09, 2022, 12:50:23 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 09, 2022, 12:41:26 PM

And good luck to you trying to immigrate to New Zealand.

Anyway, water is a good barrier to most.

I wouldn't tell that to Cubans and Haitians trying to flee their socialism though.

Why wouldn't the Kiwis want me???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 09, 2022, 12:56:24 PM

They read this Board?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 09, 2022, 01:39:22 PM

This Crash Shows Exactly What Safety Regulations Are For (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/videos/a31441/car-safety-regulations-crash-video/?src=socialflowFBRAT&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2Gm8UgJfKgTUEXUQbNG2vYZHihz2SUwHlmjfdxRUYE-QK503pO3fbsqSo)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 09, 2022, 08:04:34 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 09, 2022, 07:42:16 AM

UMass tried to troll Liberty by making it a "pride" game, but then promptly got their proverbial poop pushed by the Flames for a full 60 minutes.

Those Liberty folks do seem to like getting into the kinky stuff. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 09, 2022, 08:51:25 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 09, 2022, 11:48:43 AM

Good luck making the US an island.

a wall or a river isn't an ocean, but it's a start

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 10, 2022, 12:07:28 AM

A wall would make sense if this was the year 1387.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 10, 2022, 08:07:42 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 10, 2022, 12:07:28 AM

A wall would make sense if this was the year 1387.

Yeah, that's why they build prisons without walls these days. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 10, 2022, 08:13:41 AM

I prefer the term "barrier", which could be a wall in places, or something else.  It's pretty obvious that any time one wishes to secure an area, any area, you can do it with X men, or many fewer with a suitable barrier.  In places it can be just steel poles, as we see near protected facilities, to prevent vehicles from traversing.

There is a Fed Reserve Bank near me we walk by often, their security is interesting and I'm sure I see only parts of it.  They have a nice museum inside one can visit and watch pallets of money going by, we're told each pallet contains $5 million and up, on automated "fork lifts" (behind glass of course).  So, inside that bank muct be billions of dollars in currency.  (Not to mention trillions of non-paper assets).  

It's a neat visit if you're here and have an hour to spare.

So, we could "secure" the southern border with millions of men, or we could do it with thousands and a suitable barrier depending on terrain.

Another issue is over stayed visas of course.  This is much harder to do in the Schengen Zone for obvious reasons.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 10, 2022, 08:22:07 AM

Things Southerners Say at a Drive-Thru - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjB_yaWQQPo)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 10, 2022, 08:46:44 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 10, 2022, 08:07:42 AM

Yeah, that's why they build prisons without walls these days.

Are there a lot of 2,000 mile-around prisons?  I hadn't heard.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 10, 2022, 09:21:01 AM

It would be "fun" to construct an anonymous football poll these days, you'd not know the team's name, just their wins and losses over opponents.  You can't really do that of course.

Who had the best wins and bad close wins?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 10, 2022, 09:22:19 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 10, 2022, 08:46:44 AM

Are there a lot of 2,000 mile-around prisons?  I hadn't heard.

I think it makes sense to have a suitable barrier along major portions of the border, it might not be a "wall" in every location obviously.  Folks get caught up in  extremes instead of common sense.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2022, 09:47:12 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 09, 2022, 12:50:23 PM

Why wouldn't the Kiwis want me???

The better question is why would they want you?


(https://i.imgur.com/G4jdGA1.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2022, 09:56:07 AM

The other thing about New Zealand is you have to learn English. There is no such thing as "press 1" for English there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 10, 2022, 10:00:19 AM

Don't be such a sad, snowflakey cliche.

BOO HOO I HAVE TO PRESS A NUMBERRRRRR

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2022, 10:52:36 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 10, 2022, 10:00:19 AM

Don't be such a sad, snowflakey cliche.

BOO HOO I HAVE TO PRESS A NUMBERRRRRR

You don't know what snowflake means, clearly.

And...


(https://i.imgur.com/buzBSvB.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 10, 2022, 12:33:35 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 10, 2022, 08:46:44 AM

Are there a lot of 2,000 mile-around prisons?  I hadn't heard.

Well, you don't see thousands of prisoners walking across the prison border every day. I wonder why?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 10, 2022, 12:48:28 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 10, 2022, 12:33:35 PM

Well, you don't see thousands of prisoners walking across the prison border every day. I wonder why?

Are you actually retarded?

Maybe because the prison wall isn't 2,000 miles long.  Yay, we made a circle!  

Is there some sort of "worst retort ever" contest I'm not aware of here?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2022, 02:17:30 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 10, 2022, 12:48:28 PM

Are you actually retarded?

Maybe because the prison wall isn't 2,000 miles long.  Yay, we made a circle! 

Is there some sort of "worst retort ever" contest I'm not aware of here?

Nope, but the wall at the border should be. It should also have cameras and drones helping out.

We have no idea who is coming in there. There are many with bad intentions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 10, 2022, 05:32:35 PM

Happy Columbus Day/Canadian Thanksgiving 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 10, 2022, 05:38:17 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 09, 2022, 08:04:34 PM

Those Liberty folks do seem to like getting into the kinky stuff.

Amazingly the White Left views this as a successful troll job by UMass. 

Yeah, you made yourself look like a bunch of sissies before the game, and then played like a bunch of sissies during the game. Well played. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on October 10, 2022, 05:56:37 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 10, 2022, 12:48:28 PM

Are you actually retarded?

Maybe because the prison wall isn't 2,000 miles long.  Yay, we made a circle! 

Is there some sort of "worst retort ever" contest I'm not aware of here?

Actually, Buckeye made an excellent response.  Borders need protection to keep unwanted people from getting in, just like Prisons need protection to keep unwanted people from getting out.  The size of the wall is immaterial, and as stated, in some places it's not really a wall, not physically anyways.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 10, 2022, 06:21:00 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2022, 09:56:07 AM

The other thing about New Zealand is you have to learn English. There is no such thing as "press 1" for English there.

Of course if the Chinese attack Americans will be welcome no questions asked,ya know like the last war

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 10, 2022, 07:08:47 PM

Chinese are fixing to attack New Zealand?

is this the real life?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 10, 2022, 07:19:54 PM

They've rattled sabres before about Australia/NZ and of course Taiwan

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 10, 2022, 09:06:29 PM

they rattle a lot

not out of touch like Putin

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 11, 2022, 08:34:02 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 10, 2022, 12:48:28 PM

Are you actually retarded?

Maybe because the prison wall isn't 2,000 miles long.  Yay, we made a circle! 

Is there some sort of "worst retort ever" contest I'm not aware of here?

Your childish retort does nothing to further your argument. The fact of the matter is that walls and other physical barriers do a great job of assisting in preventing people from moving freely between the spaces that the barrier separates. They are not the only solution, but are a valuable part of a comprehensive system that would greatly reduce the number of people illegally entering our country. Ignoring this fact is simply willful ignorance.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on October 11, 2022, 08:36:14 AM

Landmines and a moat with 30' Nile crocs would also help.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2022, 08:45:21 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on October 11, 2022, 08:36:14 AM

Landmines and a moat with 30' Nile crocs would also help.

That would involve too many dams and levees to make it work.

I have banned all dam and levee construction.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on October 11, 2022, 08:49:45 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 09, 2022, 12:41:26 PM

And good luck to you trying to immigrate to New Zealand.

Anyway, water is a good barrier to most.

I wouldn't tell that to Cubans and Haitians trying to flee their socialism though.

Haiti is a republic with a central government that features a President and a Prime Minister.  Not socialist.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 11, 2022, 08:52:25 AM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on October 11, 2022, 08:49:45 AM

Haiti is a republic with a central government that features a President and a Prime Minister.  Not socialist.

A socialist state can easily have a President and a PM and a Legislature.  The two things don't overlap, at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on October 11, 2022, 08:56:56 AM

Fair enough.  The Haitian economy is based on free market principles.  Just because they are poor and corrupt doesn't make them socialist.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2022, 09:00:12 AM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on October 11, 2022, 08:49:45 AM

Haiti is a republic with a central government that features a President and a Prime Minister.  Not socialist.

One of my good friends is Haitian, and he would differ on that. He would say authoritarian most likely. There's not much separation of power there, if any.

I'll ask him when I next talk to him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2022, 09:01:02 AM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on October 11, 2022, 08:56:56 AM

Fair enough.  The Haitian economy is based on free market principles.  Just because they are poor and corrupt doesn't make them socialist.

True enough there. The elites are not poor though. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2022, 09:01:30 AM

Dams and levees. My mind is there now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 11, 2022, 09:05:43 AM

States like that are simply corrupt, majorly so, the "style" of purported government is irrelevant, really.  Venezuela probably calls itself a 'democracy' of sorts, but it's corrupt, even more than the US is.  

I see folks arguing over whether Nazi Germany was socialist or not, they were corrupt and perhaps closer to a crony capitalist state where big industrialists in favor prosper.

I'd put China in this group today, though perhaps it's more "crony socialist".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2022, 09:05:59 AM

So we went shopping on Sunday to get some things for the cabinets and fridge were surprised.

People are hoarding still. There was next to zero meat on the shelves at Aldo, Wal-Mart and Publix. No milk. Very little bread. TP very low. 

I mean come on people. Now is not the time to replace every item in the freezer you may have lost. Other people need to eat too.

My good friend delivered 400 meals to linemen on Pine Island yesterday. Took him 5 hours to get there from Port Charlotte - a 45/50 minute drive normally.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 11, 2022, 09:08:39 AM

I'd guess restocking the stores is a problem also.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2022, 09:15:09 AM

Not really. There was plenty of food yesterday from what I was hearing. There is no major hinderance on transportation at this time.

Seafood is taking a hit, of course. Shrimpers and other boats are certainly not out in the numbers they were, pre-Ian.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 11, 2022, 09:38:58 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 11, 2022, 08:52:25 AM

A socialist state can easily have a President and a PM and a Legislature.  The two things don't overlap, at all.

yep just look at Canada

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 11, 2022, 09:40:42 AM

Canada is not what I'd call "socialist", nor is Sweden et al.  They have some socialist attributes, but their economies are based on free markets largely.

I prefer the terms "free markets" vs "central planning".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 11, 2022, 10:45:51 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2022, 09:15:09 AM

Not really. There was plenty of food yesterday from what I was hearing. There is no major hinderance on transportation at this time.

Seafood is taking a hit, of course. Shrimpers and other boats are certainly not out in the numbers they were, pre-Ian.

Just an opportunity for someone else...

(https://i.imgur.com/hVaT25c.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 11, 2022, 11:11:11 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2022, 09:15:09 AM

Not really. There was plenty of food yesterday from what I was hearing. There is no major hinderance on transportation at this time.

Orange Afro was right

the rich folks got the bridges rebuilt in no time!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 11, 2022, 11:52:48 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 08, 2022, 10:30:02 AM

If they fixed legal immigration, there'd be no need for people to do it illegally.  That system is broken.

Wonders never cease.  

Something we actually agree on.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 11, 2022, 11:54:43 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 11, 2022, 09:40:42 AM

Canada is not what I'd call "socialist", nor is Sweden et al.  They have some socialist attributes, but their economies are based on free markets largely.

I prefer the terms "free markets" vs "central planning".

I'm not really sure why people (young people in particular) try to hold up the Nordic countries as examples of socialism.  They're not socialist, and in many ways are more capitalist than we are.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2022, 12:01:29 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 11, 2022, 11:11:11 AM

Orange Afro was right

the rich folks got the bridges rebuilt in no time!

Temporary bridge to Pine Island was done last week. Sanibel Causeway still being worked on.

Amazing work is being done here.

Pine Island is not rich.

Sanibel/Captiva is rich.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 11, 2022, 12:07:49 PM

What does fix legal immigration mean?

Does it mean carefully screen immigrants and allow only a fixed number in each year?

Or does it mean allow everyone in but call them legal?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2022, 12:09:17 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 11, 2022, 12:07:49 PM

What does fix legal immigration mean?

Does it mean carefully screen immigrants and allow only a fixed number in each year?

Or does it mean allow everyone in but call them legal?

New Zealand.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 11, 2022, 12:11:50 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 11, 2022, 12:07:49 PM

What does fix legal immigration mean?

It means carefully screen immigrants and allow only a fixed number in each year?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 11, 2022, 12:39:40 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 11, 2022, 12:07:49 PM

What does fix legal immigration mean?

Does it mean carefully screen immigrants and allow only a fixed number in each year?

Or does it mean allow everyone in but call them legal?

Could always fix it like Japan.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2022, 03:57:11 PM

Tough times. I haven't looked for a while, on purpose. Today, I looked. Shit. Wish I hadn't.

(https://i.imgur.com/BIu83sT.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2022, 03:59:24 PM

What is the target for inflation rate? 1.7-2.2 or so?

(https://i.imgur.com/gp052yj.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on October 11, 2022, 04:12:51 PM

It’s funny because many don’t consider the US to be a bunch of socialists but in reality we have lots of socialists policies and programs. Social Security is probably the biggest. And we absolutely have a national healthcare socialist program, you just have to be over 65 to get it. Lots of community hospitals are part of a tax district. State university’s. And on and on. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2022, 04:30:01 PM

New Deal started a lot of things and began with the crash in 1929. 

Some good things, more bad things.

SS is something I will accept when I turn 62. A little more than 6 years from now.

What I don't like is that since 2001 I've paid double as I'm self-employed. What I also don't like is that when me or my wife pass, one of us will have to choose which "benefit" we'll receive. Can't take both. And if we both pass young, nobody gets it. It's just gone. 

Neither of us will likely ever see the amounts we've paid in. It's not possible. We've both been FICA maxed since 1997 or so. Not that I'm complaining about earning too much LOL... Just that I know I could have made our money perform much better than the government can. That's another rub though.

Regardless, SS cannot go away. That would be a disaster for too many people. It does need some fixing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 11, 2022, 04:30:45 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2022, 03:57:11 PM

Tough times. I haven't looked for a while, on purpose. Today, I looked. Shit. Wish I hadn't.

(https://i.imgur.com/BIu83sT.png)

click on the "5Y" button, it'll make you feel WAY better

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2022, 05:02:33 PM

Continued extrapolation would make everyone feel better. 

Of course, the massive gains post-Covid crash were not sustainable forever, but 6-8 percent is good, unless inflation is the same. 

Of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 11, 2022, 05:20:16 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2022, 04:30:01 PM

Regardless, SS cannot go away. That would be a disaster for too many people. It does need some fixing.

Ya like unless your disabled or the wife of a veteran or paid into it keep your grubby mitts off

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 11, 2022, 05:23:10 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2022, 04:30:01 PM

New Deal started a lot of things and began with the crash in 1929.

It started in 1933, technically, the same year Hitler started.  You could say the impetus was the Crash and the GD that followed (and persisted).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 12, 2022, 08:10:39 AM

Technicalities.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 12, 2022, 09:28:38 AM

For those interested- quick yet concise view of housing market in US.  
Since this is the business I am in- thought I would share. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 12, 2022, 10:27:44 AM

Extreme Southeastern South Dakota is the area I'd be interested in moving for tax purposes.

____________________________________________

announcement by Tyson Foods that it plans to close its Dakota Dunes corporate office.

 Tyson's decision which looks to move its 500-plus corporate employees from South Dakota to Arkansas 

Tyson Foods announced last Wednesday it would close its Dakota Dunes office, plus two others in Illinois, and relocate all employees to Arkansas. Staff were given until mid-November to choose to move, or quit.

___________________________________________

This will drive the market much lower for the type of house I'm looking for

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 18, 2022, 08:43:44 AM

Headed to Circuit of the Americas on Thursday night for the US Grand Prix weekend.  Weather is looking nice, highs in the upper 80s with lows down into the low 50s.  Gonna be some brisk mornings until the sun gets a little higher in the sky.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 18, 2022, 10:29:57 AM

Construction here is still going full bore, which often in the past presaged a sharp drop in demand.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 18, 2022, 12:25:31 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2022, 04:30:01 PM

Regardless, SS cannot go away. That would be a disaster for too many people. It does need some fixing.

I've noodled around different ideas for a long time about this and some other areas.  It'll never happen in the real world of course, but I can envision scenarios where there is a slow scale-back of Medicare/Medicaid over a period of years until the government burden is either far smaller or gone entirely and get the gub'ment out of the insurance business.  Never have thought of a hypothetical plan to shift the need for SS away from the government, though in principle, I'd rather the federal government not be on the hook and taxing us for it.  

When you say it needs some fixing, what are your suggestions?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 18, 2022, 03:31:24 PM

Getting solid reviews, I'm ordering it:

(https://i.imgur.com/PB6u81w.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 19, 2022, 08:37:28 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 18, 2022, 12:25:31 PM

I've noodled around different ideas for a long time about this and some other areas.  It'll never happen in the real world of course, but I can envision scenarios where there is a slow scale-back of Medicare/Medicaid over a period of years until the government burden is either far smaller or gone entirely and get the gub'ment out of the insurance business.  Never have thought of a hypothetical plan to shift the need for SS away from the government, though in principle, I'd rather the federal government not be on the hook and taxing us for it. 

When you say it needs some fixing, what are your suggestions? 

A few years ago, I suggested that the government give people under 50 the option of opting out of SS and investing their portion of the amount withheld from their paychecks, into whatever investments they decided and that it be manditory that they do. (They would not actually recieve the money, they would just direct it to the investment vehicle of their choosing). The employer share would still be put into SS to help keep it sovlant for those already retired and about the retire.

Part of this plan would then be for younger workers to not even have the choice, they would be forced to contribute to their own investments. 

Once all of the people that were receiving SS were out of the system (which would take quite a few years), the program could be eliminated. 

The benefits to this plan seemed obvious to me, those currently dependent on SS would be unaffected. Most directed investments would be in the stock market either directly or through mutal funds and would boost investment into solid companies allowing them to expand their business and remain solvent. 

I knew there would be issues, but at least this would be a start to get the Fed Gov't out of retirement business. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 19, 2022, 08:40:06 AM

Is there a minimum SS payment people receive?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 19, 2022, 08:53:17 AM

The minimum Social Security benefit calculation was developed to help certain low-income workers boost their benefit amount. This calculation looks at years of coverage in place of someone’s earnings to estimate how much they might receive from Social Security. For 2022, the special minimum benefit starts at $45.50 for someone with 11 years of coverage and goes to $950.80 for workers with 30 years of coverage.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 19, 2022, 09:11:09 AM

Does someone who never worked get SS payments?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 19, 2022, 09:13:30 AM

The only people who can legally collect benefits without paying into Social Security are family members of workers who have done so. Nonworking spouses, ex-spouses, offspring or parents may be eligible for spousal, survivor or children's benefits based on the qualifying worker's earnings record.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 19, 2022, 10:22:32 AM

Why Cadillac Thinks It Can Sell a $300,000 Car (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a41688697/why-cadillac-thinks-it-can-sell-300000-car/?utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR2W3I3K6MGXzhk-T-vW2Ozj0oXjRABSRHLyk7nCBE7qpr-lmW3LkOei3rI)

Not a sporty car of course.  I doubt there are many in that price range attracted to a Caddy these days.  It's more about having something more than unusual, it has to have established cache etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 19, 2022, 02:38:17 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 19, 2022, 09:11:09 AM

Does someone who never worked get SS payments?

Nope. Though the math is a bit odd. 

You earn credits, up to four a year. You need 40 total. Each credit requires some piddling sum of money (a bit more than $1,500). So if you work 10 years full time, or some number more than 10 at a considerably part time pace, you qualify. 

It looks like about 4% of the old don’t qualify. You also have to be living a truly desperate lifestyle or earn a ton of under the table money to make that happen. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 19, 2022, 03:12:15 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 19, 2022, 02:38:17 PM

Nope. Though the math is a bit odd.

You earn credits, up to four a year. You need 40 total. Each credit requires some piddling sum of money (a bit more than $1,500). So if you work 10 years full time, or some number more than 10 at a considerably part time pace, you qualify.

It looks like about 4% of the old don’t qualify. You also have to be living a truly desperate lifestyle or earn a ton of under the table money to make that happen.

So, they get welfare, or they are living off of inheritance (or something?) then.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 19, 2022, 03:19:46 PM

There is spouse survivor social security benefits

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 19, 2022, 03:44:50 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 19, 2022, 03:19:46 PM

There is spouse survivor social security benefits

Yep, I know, but you can't take yours and your spouses. You have to pick one. This is problematic to me. Both of us have max points.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 19, 2022, 06:45:08 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 19, 2022, 03:12:15 PM

So, they get welfare, or they are living off of inheritance (or something?) then.

Either did a lifetime of welfare, lives off the grid or worked a lot of off the books jobs.

I could also imagine some people who either had a spouse they didn’t legally marry or separated from late in life on non-amicable terms.

Also, maybe some later in life immigrants?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 19, 2022, 09:18:24 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 19, 2022, 09:11:09 AM

Does someone who never worked get SS payments?

You just HAVE to feel cheated somehow, at every turn, don't you?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 19, 2022, 10:11:00 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 19, 2022, 09:18:24 PM

You just HAVE to feel cheated somehow, at every turn, don't you? 

People are being civil. Maybe try it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2022, 08:07:41 AM

I need to remind my wife about the spousal benefit, she's only worked here since 1999, so I get more.  She gets SS from France.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2022, 08:10:04 AM

I just got the email about the increases for COLA.  I think the CPI should be adjusted to reflect more what older folks spend on rather than the actual CPI.  There is such a thing.

I know this increase is better than nothing, but for some folks, it's not treading water.  

Having a lot of folks employed obviously helps prolong the SSTF's solvency.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2022, 09:02:07 AM

Former Georgia Bulldogs football star, Pro Football Hall of Famer and College Football Hall of Famer Charley Trippi died Wednesday, it was announced. (https://twitter.com/SethWEmerson/status/1582836251312689152?s=20&t=x9msIPljrKG1jSaYim9aKg) He was 100 years old.
Trippi played for the Bulldogs from 1942-43 and again from 1945-46 in a career that was interrupted by military service during World War II. He was a two-time first-team SEC selection, an SEC Player of the Year and Maxwell Award winner. He helped lead the Bulldogs to a 9-0 victory over UCLA in the 1943 Rose Bowl and a consensus national championship. He rushed for 130 yards and was retroactively named the Player of the Game when the award was created in 1953. His No. 62 jersey is retired at Georgia.
Famed Alabama head coach Bear Bryant (https://247sports.com/Coach/Bear-Bryant-3612) and college sportscaster Keith Jackson both called Trippi "the greatest football player ever," while Georgia Tech coach Bobby Dodd (https://247sports.com/Coach/Bobby-Dodd-4716) called him the "best safety man the South ever had" for his ability on defense.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2022, 09:06:26 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 19, 2022, 10:11:00 PM

People are being civil. Maybe try it.

Yeah, F him. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2022, 09:07:25 AM

Georgia Tech to break ground on two-tower Midtown project this week | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/georgia-tech-square-development-breaking-ground-midtown-west-peachtree)

Tech is apparently getting a lot of money these days.  Some of it is from Asian students etc.  This is mostly a private donor apparently.

(https://i.imgur.com/K3vbhIs.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 20, 2022, 09:10:20 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2022, 09:06:26 AM

Yeah, F him. :)

:96:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2022, 09:22:08 AM

:57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 20, 2022, 09:39:03 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 19, 2022, 09:18:24 PM

You just HAVE to feel cheated somehow, at every turn, don't you? 

You just HAVE to find something about others to get offended about, at every turn, don't you?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 20, 2022, 09:47:24 AM

Y'all should stop getting offended at stuff and talk about beer instead.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 20, 2022, 10:11:40 AM

OR....

you should stop talking about beer and get offended.  It's all the rage these days.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2022, 10:14:46 AM

I like wine a lot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 20, 2022, 10:15:53 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 20, 2022, 10:11:40 AM

OR....

you should stop talking about beer and get offended.  It's all the rage these days. 

This is how I end up wasting beer. People start talking like this and I shake one up real good and spray it at them to change the subject

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 20, 2022, 10:17:10 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 20, 2022, 10:14:46 AM

I like wine a lot.

Moi aussi

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 20, 2022, 10:17:22 AM

Someone posted a video on the Internet comparing the Jucy Lucy to a Wisconsin butter burger

The video was slickly shot but the content was incompetent. But it doesn’t open the floor, do y’all have any thoughts on that front?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2022, 10:25:36 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 20, 2022, 10:17:22 AM

Someone posted a video on the Internet comparing the Jucy Lucy to a Wisconsin butter burger

The video was slickly shot but the content was incompetent. But it doesn’t open the floor, do y’all have any thoughts on that front?

There is no comparison.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 20, 2022, 10:27:29 AM

I'm not familiar with a butter burger but I ate quite a few Jucy Lucys at Matt's while I was in Minneapolis and I found it to be a delicious burger.

(as long as you wait several minutes to take your first bite, for obvious reasons...)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2022, 10:29:42 AM

In other news, our HOA proposed a $330 K renewal of our lobby a while back, that got voted down.  They then came up with reserve money to fund a slightly lesser renewal which is happening now, with attendant noise.  It's in the background here, but present, as they chisel up the floor (which was a kind of white marble looking thing).  A main feature is the concierge desk which was built too small for all the packages that now arrive daily, so they are expanding that, replacing the floor, redoing the walls, and furniture, etc.  It's one of the "joy" of living in a condo (and this building is probably better than most in that respect).

I think we're going to head out for lunch, our guests left yesterday (early, I drove them to the airport at 5 AM).  We're happy to be back on our own.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on October 20, 2022, 10:53:57 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 20, 2022, 09:07:25 AM

Georgia Tech to break ground on two-tower Midtown project this week | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/georgia-tech-square-development-breaking-ground-midtown-west-peachtree)

Tech is apparently getting a lot of money these days.  Some of it is from Asian students etc.  This is mostly a private donor apparently.

(https://i.imgur.com/K3vbhIs.png)

My son will be sending off his college admission application to GT here in about a week.
Just goes to show you how old we are getting.  I met 847Badgerfan at the infamous Wisconsin / Purdue Kyle Orton fumble game.  At that time, my wife was pregnant with said son.  
He's applying to GT, OSU, Purdue, and Stanford.  He's got high ambitions but has good grades with solid extracurriculars (Boy Scout Eagle, Robotics Club, Aikido, Capital University Junior Band).  But still, I keep telling him to add a lower level "safety" school, just in case.

So he might apply to Wisconsin.  :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2022, 11:03:57 AM

^^^

Bastage.


Our youngest drove home on a learner's permit from that game if I remember right. He has given us one grandchild so far.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 20, 2022, 02:38:45 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/police-investigating-private-photos-wisconsin-womens-volleyball-team-leaked-online.amp

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 20, 2022, 02:41:04 PM

Quote from: grillrat on October 20, 2022, 10:53:57 AM

So he might apply to Wisconsin.  :)

If you want him to apply to Wisconsin, show him this:

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on October 20, 2022, 02:38:45 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/police-investigating-private-photos-wisconsin-womens-volleyball-team-leaked-online.amp

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 20, 2022, 03:08:43 PM

Quote from: grillrat on October 20, 2022, 10:53:57 AM

My son will be sending off his college admission application to GT here in about a week.
Just goes to show you how old we are getting.  I met 847Badgerfan at the infamous Wisconsin / Purdue Kyle Orton fumble game.  At that time, my wife was pregnant with said son. 
He's applying to GT, OSU, Purdue, and Stanford.  He's got high ambitions but has good grades with solid extracurriculars (Boy Scout Eagle, Robotics Club, Aikido, Capital University Junior Band).  But still, I keep telling him to add a lower level "safety" school, just in case.

So he might apply to Wisconsin.  :)

He applied to OSU and Purdue, so safety school requirement fulfilled.

If he’s still dithering, just point out that he might end up at IU-Calumet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 21, 2022, 01:53:20 PM

FORE!!!

75 degrees here

no wind - full sun

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 21, 2022, 03:10:41 PM

Was finally able to have the marina get my boat down from the rack.

One of the cushions were damaged and that's it. Hard to believe it didn't fall down with the other 100 that did. 

Thankfully we bought a very heavy boat, I guess.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 21, 2022, 03:16:48 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 21, 2022, 03:10:41 PM

Was finally able to have the marina get my boat down from the rack.

One of the cushions were damaged and that's it. Hard to believe it didn't fall down with the other 100 that did.

Thankfully we bought a very heavy boat, I guess.

more good news

somebody up there likes you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 21, 2022, 07:02:23 PM

all that clean living!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 22, 2022, 09:13:56 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 21, 2022, 07:02:23 PM

all that clean living!

Yeah... I'm the poster child...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 22, 2022, 09:14:52 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/aFU3iAx.png)

Next-Gen Mercedes EQC Electric Compact Car Will Come to America (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/news/mercedes-eqc-america-2025-mbea-platform/?sm_id=organic%3Asm_id%3Afb%3AAMAG%3Atrueanthem&fbclid=IwAR3ODtXSCUNPr1PqDz9m3b8ompjBKiVSB2n7IObJDRag0MN8xqp4VbdBCMk)

Looks kind of like a Honda Accord ... which is not bad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 22, 2022, 09:40:21 AM

where's the electric car thread?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 22, 2022, 09:57:34 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 22, 2022, 09:40:21 AM

where's the electric car thread?

it just ran out of gas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 22, 2022, 10:13:35 AM

I'd like Biden and Pelosi to run out of gas - followed by Hunter if possible

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 22, 2022, 10:18:39 AM

Nov 8th

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2022, 09:49:08 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 22, 2022, 10:18:39 AM

Nov 8th

I have to be in Chicago for business - 11/6-11/8. Gonna have to get it done early for this one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 23, 2022, 10:27:54 AM

I figure if Republicans take the House, which seems likely, it will stop most legislation, and probably even stop things like debt ceiling raises, again, and of course investigations galore.  

If they take the Senate, it means various appointments by Biden will get much tougher.

And in two years, many will be frustrated with them again and their inaction and antics.  I'm not sure else of note would be likely to happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 23, 2022, 10:33:06 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 23, 2022, 10:27:54 AM

I figure if Republicans take the House, which seems likely, it will stop most legislation, and probably even stop things like debt ceiling raises, again, and of course investigations galore. 

If they take the Senate, it means various appointments by Biden will get much tougher.

And in two years, many will be frustrated with them again and their inaction and antics.  I'm not sure else of note would be likely to happen.

yep lets keep the insanity going to avoid any frustration

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 23, 2022, 10:46:00 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2022, 09:49:08 AM

I have to be in Chicago for business - 11/6-11/8. Gonna have to get it done early for this one.

don't get shot

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2022, 10:50:45 AM

Gonna be in a safe area North of the Chity.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 23, 2022, 10:53:13 AM

git yerself some Italian Beef!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 23, 2022, 11:29:49 AM

Exxon Mobil (Exxon) is expected unveil another quarter of monster profits powered by high natural gas prices next week.

It is currently on track for a record annual profit of $54.8bn thus year, according to IBES Refinitiv, which would be more than its cumulative earnings since 2018.

The company’s shares have surged to record highs this week, and are up more than 70 per cent to date this year – vastly outperforming market gains from rivals Shell, BP and Chevron.

A commodities boom has powered the oil and gas giant to bumper profits, which has enabled the company to erase the $21bn it borrowed during the pandemic in 2020.

It took the hefty loan to pay its bills and keep dividend distributions intact, and is now expected to add $26bn in cash this year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 23, 2022, 03:12:53 PM

College GameDay announced Sunday that it is heading to Jackson State for its Week 9 clash against Southern University. This is significant, as GameDay has not been on an HBCU campus since the 2008 season when Florida A&M hosted Hampton. This is also the first time it has broadcast from an FCS program since 2019, when it was onsite for North Dakota State’s game at South Dakota State.

Jackson State coach Deion Sanders has the Tigers at 7-0, coming off a 22-14 homecoming win against Campbell. Jackson State is 4-0 in SWAC play and, before Saturday’s game, beat each of its opponents by at least double digits. This level of success has some listing Sanders as a legitimate candidate to become a Power Five head coach.

"I’m going to have to entertain it," Sanders told CBS News when asked about Power Five interest. "Yes, I’m going to have to entertain it, straight up. I’d be a fool not to."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 24, 2022, 08:43:19 AM

A surge in migration from Venezuela, Cuba and Nicaragua brought the number of illegal crossings to the highest level ever recorded in a fiscal year. In the 12-month period that ended Sept. 30, migrants were stopped 2.38 million times, up 37% from 1.73 million times the year before and surpassing 2 million for the first time.

The year-end numbers reflect deteriorating economic and political conditions in some countries, the relative strength of the U.S. economy and uneven enforcement of Trump-era asylum restrictions.

Many are immediately expelled under the asylum restrictions, a public health order known as Title 42, which denies people a chance at seeking asylum on grounds of preventing the spread of COVID-19.

But others — including people from Cuba and Nicaragua, with which the U.S. has strained relations — are released with notices to appear in immigration court or under humanitarian parole. Those migrants must tell agents where they will live, but many can’t provide an address.


“It almost seems as though, at the border, officials are simply just looking up any nonprofit address they can or just looking up any name at all that they can and just putting that down without actually ever checking whether that person has mentioned it, whether there’s beds or shelter at that location, or whether this is even a location that can provide legal assistance,” said Lauren Wyatt, managing attorney with Catholic Charities of New York. “So clearly, this is not the most effective way to do this.”


Most of the migrants interviewed in New York had hopped on taxpayer-funded buses that Texas and the city of El Paso have been sending regularly to the northeast city.


The Biden administration recently agreed to accept up to 24,000 Venezuelans at U.S. airports if they apply for asylum online with financial sponsors, similar to how Ukrainians have been admitted since Russia’s invasion. Mexico has said it will take back Venezuelans who cross the border into the U.S. and are expelled under Title 42 authority.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 24, 2022, 10:42:11 AM

I had a root canal this AM, which sounds really scary.  It wasn't bad at all thanks to lidocaine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 24, 2022, 10:57:47 AM

I still don't want one

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 24, 2022, 11:22:15 AM

Netflix's 'All Quiet on the Western Front' is a worthy modern adaptation (taskandpurpose.com) (https://taskandpurpose.com/culture/all-quiet-on-the-western-front-netflix-review/?utm_campaign=trueanthem_manual&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_term=taskandpurpose&fbclid=IwAR2m8tRvqXtWCm8G0GR2vPqEPNOm4o43ozBPjltUoD5YClJQ3JHeGBhIvfs)

I think this is the first book I read that really brought home that war isn't like John Wayne movies.

I like depressing war books, and movies, maybe they'd make us think before starting one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 24, 2022, 09:05:29 PM

How the U.S. Marine Corps Uses the Rule of 3 to Organize Everything. (Well, Almost Everything)'The Marines experimented with a rule of four and found that effectiveness plummeted.'

https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/how-us-marine-corps-uses-rule-of-3-to-organize-everything-well-almost-everything.html (https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/how-us-marine-corps-uses-rule-of-3-to-organize-everything-well-almost-everything.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 25, 2022, 01:05:35 PM

My wife had dental surgery this AM.  She's sleeping now, she did fine, still another procedure to go.  I am thankful for anesthetics and analgesics.

My dentist was  rooting around in my tooth pretty aggressively.  She had three screws implanted in her jaw.  I guess folks back in the day just sucked it up.

Brush your teeth, often.  Things start not working when you get covfefe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 25, 2022, 01:49:37 PM

I'm thinking about one of those electric tooth brushes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 25, 2022, 01:50:50 PM

My wife had one and converted me to it.  I don't think it's miraculous, but it's fine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 25, 2022, 01:51:21 PM

any better a tall?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 25, 2022, 01:53:35 PM

I think it's somewhat better, yes, and it's convenient for me.  My dentists says they are better.

Our hygenist uses baking powder to clean our teeth.  It's messy.  She sprays it out of a nozzle at high V.

The X rays now appear on a CRT, no film, right away, it's neat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 25, 2022, 01:59:46 PM

headed to Lincoln on business

dinner & drinks later

might see my daughter

Golf tomorrow - business!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 25, 2022, 02:06:46 PM

Of course you come across as all business

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 25, 2022, 02:34:55 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 25, 2022, 01:49:37 PM

I'm thinking about one of those electric tooth brushes

I resisted for a while. But they are better, I think. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 25, 2022, 03:35:18 PM

Have not had a single cavity in the last 15 years I've been using one..

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 25, 2022, 03:36:46 PM

so you wear dentures/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 25, 2022, 03:37:35 PM

I have not had a cavity in decades, but other issues have arisen.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 25, 2022, 03:47:53 PM

I've never had a cavity.  True story.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on October 25, 2022, 05:40:29 PM

I have never had a body cavity search.  True story.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 25, 2022, 08:55:48 PM

That costs extra.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 25, 2022, 09:08:09 PM

Quote from: utee94 on October 25, 2022, 03:47:53 PM

I've never had a cavity.  True story. 

The only one that I ever had was in a baby tooth. They just yanked it right out. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on October 26, 2022, 08:11:34 AM

The trial of Darrell Brooks is something else.  Pro se defendant, unhinged and simply out of time at this point. His tactics were disgraceful.

I worked in this DAs office, back when the Judge today was there and the DA was helping guys like me figure their way around the courts.  Their patience and management of this trial have been remarkable to say nothing of the court reporter.

Jury is out now,  sifting through about 150 pages of verdict forms and and 100+ pages of jury instructions.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 26, 2022, 09:04:19 AM

I don't expect any outcome but guilty, given the footage and motivation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on October 26, 2022, 12:13:56 PM

Guilty.  Judge Dorrow reading all 76 verdicts now.  Massive stack of paper.  This will take 1+hr.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 26, 2022, 12:19:24 PM

Good.

Now do life without parole.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 26, 2022, 12:43:22 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 26, 2022, 12:19:24 PM

Good.

Now do life without parole.

does Wisc still have death penalty

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 26, 2022, 12:46:16 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 26, 2022, 12:43:22 PM

does Wisc still have death penalty

Not since 1853.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 26, 2022, 01:06:37 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgQRgT15f9U

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 26, 2022, 01:33:33 PM

I never cared for all the 'lawyers are bad' jokes.....until I sat in and heard a defense attorney speak.
The guy was friends with the other lawyer.
He was "just doing his job."
The defendant was guilty, but he had to put up some kind of defense.
.
He busts out with "yes, she was abducted at knife-point from her front door, but her life was never in danger."
All of my hatred and ire towards the defendant went right to the lawyer who uttered those words.  It took all I had not to yell out, "let me drag your wife from your front door, kicking and screaming at knifepoint at 4 am and you tell me her life isn't in danger!"
.
But yeah, since then, all the lawyer jokes seem too polite.  Fuck that guy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 26, 2022, 01:37:11 PM

Why sharks don't eat lawyers - professional courtesy :cheer:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on October 26, 2022, 01:57:24 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 26, 2022, 12:46:16 PM

Not since 1853.

One person has been executed in WI history since 1848.  As noted, no penalty since 1853.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 26, 2022, 02:05:52 PM

I try not to generalize off the words of one person across a far larger group of folks.

In fact, I'm against ALL over generalizations.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 26, 2022, 02:16:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 26, 2022, 02:05:52 PM

I try not to generalize off the words of one person across a far larger group of folks.

In fact, I'm against ALL over generalizations.

The point is that it was ho-hum.  If it wasn't him, it'd have been somebody else.  He knew the guy was guilty, that wasn't the question.  It was a sentencing hearing.  But he had to 'do his job' and say something. 
.
When doing your job includes defending dipshit criminal human garbage, maybe don't pick that job.  When your defendant is out on parole and immediately does something horrible and stupid, and his mother is begging for a 9th chance, it's a deranged profession.  Idiot had a facial tattoo, so it was immediately identifiable.  
.
The entire system is corrupt anyway.  The more money you make, the less likely you'll be punished for your transgressions. 
That is a broken system.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 26, 2022, 03:42:13 PM

Always interested in how the machinations of the criminal justice system get boiled down. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 26, 2022, 03:53:50 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on October 26, 2022, 01:57:24 PM

One person has been executed in WI history since 1848.  As noted, no penalty since 1853.

That's not including backwoods justice - only what you have on the books

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 26, 2022, 06:56:42 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 26, 2022, 03:42:13 PM

Always interested in how the machinations of the criminal justice system get boiled down.

I'm all for having the right to an attorney and all the fair and good things. 
But the justice system is one thing that SHOULD be socialist.  The 'blind justice' statues are a sick joke.  On the scales should be stacks of money, with their being very uneven.
Judges shouldn't easily be identified as liberal or conservative.  We should have no idea what their politics are. 
.
But let's keep pretending that those who can afford weaselly BS artists deserve them. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 26, 2022, 07:43:32 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 26, 2022, 12:46:16 PM

Not since 1853.

Well that sucks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 26, 2022, 11:03:57 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on October 26, 2022, 01:57:24 PM

  As noted, no penalty since 1853.

That's when UF was founded.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 26, 2022, 11:56:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 26, 2022, 06:56:42 PM

I'm all for having the right to an attorney and all the fair and good things. 
But the justice system is one thing that SHOULD be socialist.  The 'blind justice' statues are a sick joke.  On the scales should be stacks of money, with their being very uneven.
Judges shouldn't easily be identified as liberal or conservative.  We should have no idea what their politics are. 
.
But let's keep pretending that those who can afford weaselly BS artists deserve them. 

I mean, you lamented the decorum of people having a vigorous but desperate defense. Like, the point is that if your client is super guilty, the best defense might be real bad (like the one you described) and then the system (in theory) recognizes that is bunk and convicts. 

The fact that the most likely guilty have someone looking out for their rights in the face of the government is a good thing. And you bet there are all sorts of issues, almost all far more nuanced than "the rich can afford a good defense attorney." 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 27, 2022, 12:05:54 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2WaE2AKeQI&t=1s

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 27, 2022, 06:02:04 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/IDN8BBg.jpg)

I-68 in Maryland, Sidling Hill cut, it's pretty neat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 27, 2022, 10:07:21 AM

How did the case turn out?  If the guy was convicted anyway, it doesn't matter what his lawyer said or did.  

I don't actually much care what defense lawyers do, as long as it's legal.  Their whole point is to ensure prosecution makes their point beyond reasonable doubt, which is a good thing no matter how sleazy the defense team truly is.  The system is built on an old philosophical axiom that it's better to let a guilty man go free than to imprison an innocent man.  Prosecution should be held to a standard and dot their i's and cross their t's.  

If and when a defense team breaks the law, or games it, or an individual is granted leniency because of who they are, that is not okay.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 27, 2022, 10:46:45 AM

https://youtu.be/jxvR7ZUjaJk

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2022, 12:20:15 PM

FORE!!!

mid-60s and sunny

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 28, 2022, 02:07:10 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 26, 2022, 11:56:26 PM

I mean, you lamented the decorum of people having a vigorous but desperate defense. Like, the point is that if your client is super guilty, the best defense might be real bad (like the one you described) and then the system (in theory) recognizes that is bunk and convicts.

The fact that the most likely guilty have someone looking out for their rights in the face of the government is a good thing. And you bet there are all sorts of issues, almost all far more nuanced than "the rich can afford a good defense attorney."

I'd just prefer some honesty.  
My client is sorry he got caught.  The end.
.
I agree it's a good thing that there's someone looking out for every defendant.  
.
Doesn't the rich affording better lawyers negate the nuance?  Doesn't it make every 'maybe' or 'could be' a little less scary?  If it changes 1 coin toss out of 10, that's something.  
Isn't the system corrupt if the best bull-shitter is the most successful?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2022, 02:46:13 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 28, 2022, 02:07:10 PM

I'd just prefer some honesty. 
My client is sorry he got caught.  The end.

This would be called accepting a Guilty plea.  If he didn't, he merits a defense.  It's a basic part of our System.

The rich generally get better health care, live in nicer houses, drive nicer cars, etc. etc. etc.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 30, 2022, 09:54:28 AM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/312923064_10160506343866660_6789986490351979441_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=e3f864&_nc_ohc=RskfTfiFYTsAX_5XpDj&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCpHQfQ42i-RPIj3BHeXKe4Bo-OmrR1iPI6SaMn6sxUsQ&oe=636368BC)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 30, 2022, 05:50:12 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 28, 2022, 02:46:13 PM

The rich generally get better health care, live in nicer houses, drive nicer cars, etc. etc. etc. 

The last 2 are fine.  

A person's medical care and their standing in a court of law should absolutely not be income-specific.  I know this, you know this, we all know this.  But it's just ignored and shrugged at.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 30, 2022, 05:51:55 PM

I have a tiny, positive thing to share about ESPN.  They obviously almost always suck, but here's a nice thing they chose to do:

on the video on espn.com showing San Jose State making a big #6 for a recently deceased teammate, there was no ad preceding the video.  Good on them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 30, 2022, 07:13:17 PM

Wow, the AP writers REALLY wanted a 1 vs 2 matchup next weekend.  
Tennessee tied with OSU at #2.  
Because reasons.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 30, 2022, 08:49:55 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 30, 2022, 05:50:12 PM

The last 2 are fine. 

A person's medical care and their standing in a court of law should absolutely not be income-specific.  I know this, you know this, we all know this.  But it's just ignored and shrugged at. 

why are the last two fine if the first two are not?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 30, 2022, 09:52:54 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 30, 2022, 07:13:17 PM

Wow, the AP writers REALLY wanted a 1 vs 2 matchup next weekend. 
Tennessee tied with OSU at #2. 
Because reasons.

Do ... you think there was some intentionality with that tie? Or just that people are over-gassing UT?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 31, 2022, 12:34:56 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 30, 2022, 09:52:54 PM

Do ... you think there was some intentionality with that tie? Or just that people are over-gassing UT?

I think just enough writers care that a 1 vs 2 matchup makes everyone 0.1% more money than a 1 vs 3 matchup.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 31, 2022, 12:38:14 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 30, 2022, 08:49:55 PM

why are the last two fine if the first two are not?

Because nice cars and houses are optional luxuries.  Quality medical care and a fair shake in the court system SHOULD BE rights for everyone.  I'd argue housing should be, too. 
But in terms of a fancier house or a car, no, that's not a need.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 31, 2022, 06:51:02 AM

A lot of things SHOULD be in life, and aren't.

I can't imagine why sportswriters would care about TV ratings, of why TV ratings would be higher for 1v2 anyway.  But I suppose it's possible there was a conspiracy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 31, 2022, 06:52:44 AM

And of course, aside from luxuries, wealthy folks are going to have access to better education, better personal safety, better access to Power, etc. etc. than poor people.

Even in France, this is true, and even there it's true for health care as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 31, 2022, 08:13:01 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 31, 2022, 12:34:56 AM

I think just enough writers care that a 1 vs 2 matchup makes everyone 0.1% more money than a 1 vs 3 matchup. 

Our ability to see patterns and tell stories about them is always a wonder.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 31, 2022, 08:20:22 AM

I'm not going to "worry" about how some gaggle of sportwriters voted for the AP Top Ten, it seems trivial to me.  I'm sure some out there see dark and nefarious motives behind such things when it plausibly is just random variation with no intent.  The Vols had an impressive looking win, so they got a bit more credit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 31, 2022, 08:28:40 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 31, 2022, 08:13:01 AM

Our ability to see patterns and tell stories about them is always a wonder.

Seeing patterns is one of our best, and worst, traits.  Our brains are built for it, for better or worse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 31, 2022, 08:40:53 AM

Humans often perceive patterns in random numbers, and random events.  This gives rise to superstitution etc.  And it's a way to "explain" the unexplainable.  We had a drought, it was because the gods are punishing us.  If I wear THIS shirt, my team will win the game.  

The value of "e" is 2.7182818284590452353602874713527   ,,, if you only know the red part, you think the black part will continue.

Imagine lending money at a 100% interest rate, compounded every year. After one year, your money would double. But what if the interest rate were cut in half, and compounded twice as often? At 50% every six months, your money would grow by 225% in one year.


As the interval gets smaller, the total returns (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/return.asp) get slightly higher. If interest is calculated n times per year, at a rate of 100%/n, the total accreted wealth (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/wealth.asp) at the end of the first year would be slightly greater than 2.7 times the initial investment if n is sufficiently large.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2022, 08:51:19 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 31, 2022, 06:52:44 AM

And of course, aside from luxuries, wealthy folks are going to have access to better education, better personal safety, better access to Power, etc. etc. than poor people.

Even in France, this is true, and even there it's true for health care as well.

Even in Utopia? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 31, 2022, 08:56:44 AM

I'm sure you understand that wealthy folks in France don't use the national health care system.

Sweden has more billionaires per capita than the US.

We were in St. Tropez for a couple days, it's pretty amazing the yachts one sees docked there, and the BIG ships are out in the bay too large to dock.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2022, 09:12:05 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/kOr8nxz.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 31, 2022, 09:24:52 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 31, 2022, 06:51:02 AM

A lot of things SHOULD be in life, and aren't.

I can't imagine why sportswriters would care about TV ratings, of why TV ratings would be higher for 1v2 anyway.  But I suppose it's possible there was a conspiracy.

Don't be that person.  Just throwing 'conspiracy' out as a way to ignore the point.  
I specifically said that enough of them put Tennessee #2 that they're officially #2 now.  Not that they communicated doing so or planned it out.  
1 v 2 matchups are focused on WAY more than 1 v 3, both at the time and even more so as time passes.  They keep aggregate stats on 1 v2 matchups, but not 1 v3.  
Writers care about overall clicks and eyeballs.....the fact I even have to type that is crazy.  You know this, right?  You must.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 31, 2022, 09:28:10 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 31, 2022, 06:52:44 AM

And of course, aside from luxuries, wealthy folks are going to have access to better education, better personal safety, better access to Power, etc. etc. than poor people.

Even in France, this is true, and even there it's true for health care as well.

As a teacher, I can assure you that the quality of education is almost (ALMOST) entirely a question of the family making it a priority.  You can do that whether you're poor or rich.
Safety and power?? are things we try to make uniform (more police in poor neighborhoods), but can't seem to fix.  The attempts are made, though.
.
We don't even pretend to try to ensure equal health care or legal fairness.  It's gross.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2022, 09:32:20 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 31, 2022, 09:28:10 AM

As a teacher, I can assure you that the quality of education is almost (ALMOST) entirely a question of the family making it a priority.  You can do that whether you're poor or rich.
Safety and power?? are things we try to make uniform (more police in poor neighborhoods), but can't seem to fix.  The attempts are made, though.
.
We don't even pretend to try to ensure equal health care or legal fairness.  It's gross.

Solutions?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 31, 2022, 10:49:09 AM

Half the dollars spent on health care in the US are spent by government.  To claim we don't try to "ensure" equal health care is simply false.  No country in the world has "equal health care", it's a chimera.  Some have better overall health care for everyone, but even in the US there is Medicaid and Medicare.

And government provides you with an attorney if you cannot afford one.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 31, 2022, 10:50:10 AM

As for writers, I think it entirely reasonable that they saw the UK result and pushed Tenn ahead of OSU, rationally, with no intent of anything else.  Some thought they merited No. 1 votes.  Fair enough.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 31, 2022, 10:54:28 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 31, 2022, 10:50:10 AM

As for writers, I think it entirely reasonable that they saw the UK result and pushed Tenn ahead of OSU, rationally, with no intent of anything else.  Some thought they merited No. 1 votes.  Fair enough.

I consider it to be one of the fun quirks of the system we have.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 31, 2022, 11:13:23 AM

Fans largely forgot computer rankings once the BCS was gone.  I have to look for them if I want to see them.  But the AP poll is similarly pointless today, but we have nothing else until tomorrow.

Humans like lists.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2022, 01:17:40 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/HeOhD7u.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 31, 2022, 01:20:46 PM

I figured at this point they'd play it out, but maybe players leaving would get too serious.  Put in an interim and have normal normalcy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2022, 01:25:19 PM

not settling for mediocre 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 31, 2022, 01:30:10 PM

Images: Construction launches on high-rise near Piedmont Park | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/midtown-development-high-rise-construction-piedmont-park)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 31, 2022, 01:30:45 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 31, 2022, 01:25:19 PM

not settling for mediocre

Auburn would need to improve to get to mediocre.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2022, 01:31:24 PM

so would Nebraska and most places firing coaches before the end of the season

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 31, 2022, 03:09:36 PM

just read the MINIMUM Illinois government employee salary is $100,000+. 

Some city managers in that state making as much as $340,000. 

Jesus. No wonder why that state is sinking. 

Illinois really is ground zero for corruption.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 31, 2022, 03:14:48 PM

Libtard extraordinaire and several hundred times millionaire Stephen King already crying about Twitter now charging $20 a month for blue check verification- and how he’s going to have to pay $20 a month for that now. 

Dude should just shut the fk up and thank the gods for his good fortune that anyone ever bought or read any of his stupid fkn books. Horror books and horror films are…fkng stupid. They are neither interesting, nor scary. They are just: fkng dumb. They are for children and women. 

Oh and the movie The Shining blows ass- just like every god damn horror movie ever made.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 31, 2022, 03:44:36 PM

I've never read one of his books or watched the shinning.I do remember "Here's-s Johnny"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 31, 2022, 03:52:46 PM

How about "The Green Mile"?  "Shawshank Redemption"?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 31, 2022, 03:56:32 PM

I liked The Green Mile

My favorites are The Stand and The Tommyknockers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 31, 2022, 04:25:18 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 31, 2022, 03:52:46 PM

How about "The Green Mile"?  "Shawshank Redemption"?

Didn't know those were his well then at least two movies - no books,that's for real authors

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on October 31, 2022, 04:33:41 PM

Lots more than just horror.

Stand by me.

Shawhank.

Green Mile.  

Got to give the dude more credit than that.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 31, 2022, 06:36:06 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 31, 2022, 08:20:22 AM

I'm not going to "worry" about how some gaggle of sportwriters voted for the AP Top Ten, it seems trivial to me.  I'm sure some out there see dark and nefarious motives behind such things when it plausibly is just random variation with no intent.  The Vols had an impressive looking win, so they got a bit more credit.

Correct. Plus, the process to reach the rankings is extremely dated. 

but people just can’t seem to quit their addiction to those rankings which makes them a very good branding tool.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 31, 2022, 08:37:15 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 31, 2022, 10:49:09 AM

Half the dollars spent on health care in the US are spent by government.  To claim we don't try to "ensure" equal health care is simply false.  

You said yourself wealthier people get better health care.  
We're failing, then, is what you're saying.  
Fantastic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 31, 2022, 08:38:11 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 31, 2022, 03:14:48 PM

Libtard extraordinaire and several hundred times millionaire Stephen King already crying about Twitter now charging $20 a month for blue check verification- and how he’s going to have to pay $20 a month for that now.

Dude should just shut the fk up and thank the gods for his good fortune that anyone ever bought or read any of his stupid fkn books. Horror books and horror films are…fkng stupid. They are neither interesting, nor scary. They are just: fkng dumb. They are for children and women.

Oh and the movie The Shining blows ass- just like every god damn horror movie ever made.

Wow.
Thanks for revealing yourself.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on October 31, 2022, 09:41:09 PM

I was today years old when I learned any state didn't tax lottery winnings

https://twitter.com/CNBCMakeIt/status/1587154099199508480?t=Bj2BJ205mg1CRhPJsg9alA&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 01, 2022, 05:58:58 AM

Quote from: ELA on October 31, 2022, 09:41:09 PM

I was today years old when I learned any state didn't tax lottery winnings

https://twitter.com/CNBCMakeIt/status/1587154099199508480?t=Bj2BJ205mg1CRhPJsg9alA&s=19

Very little in the way of taxes here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 01, 2022, 06:02:45 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 31, 2022, 03:09:36 PM

just read the MINIMUM Illinois government employee salary is $100,000+.

Some city managers in that state making as much as $340,000.

Jesus. No wonder why that state is sinking.

Illinois really is ground zero for corruption.

Average, actually.

The village manager where I lived made $350K/year, and he stands to make the same amount when he retires next year at age 58.

Pensions are the biggest problem for Illinois.

Not to mention the Cadillac health care plans for life.

We got out earlier than we planned due to Illinois locking down, but we were definitely getting out. We were not gonna stay and pay for all of that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2022, 07:22:30 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 31, 2022, 08:37:15 PM

You said yourself wealthier people get better health care. 
We're failing, then, is what you're saying. 
Fantastic.

They do everywhere, in France, Sweden, China, it's not a secret.  Did you just discover this?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 01, 2022, 07:58:30 AM

He won't offer solutions, but I think he's wanting some sort of universal health care for everyone, without the option of getting better care if you have money.

Maybe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2022, 07:59:37 AM

He wants life to be fair.  It isn't.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 01, 2022, 08:01:30 AM

Yes, it is. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2022, 08:04:59 AM

I know this one fellow who was adopted, I suspect his parents provided him with a solid foundation, but he built on that with engineering degrees, started his own company, did well in life, semi-retired to the South somewhere.

I'm aware I was born into a situation that afforded me inherent benefits, a middle class family and education, no huge advantages, but my parents believed in education.  I ended up OK also.

We started a scholarship at my kids' HS for students who did very well overall but had not specific point of excellence and wouldn't get an academic scholarship.  Most of the receipients came from disadvantaged families as it turned out, that wasn't a criterion but it informally became one, fine with me, it didn't go to students with wealthy parents.  One went to the son of our postal delivery guy.  It made a difference for them, a hand up for students who had worked hard.  We were invited to the wedding of one of them and we went, his father broke down in tears when we showed up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2022, 08:06:15 AM

If you think life isn't fair, and would like to remedy that to some modest degree, do something yourself, other than whining about it on message boards.  Help someone who needs help and make it slightly more fair.

You're not going to make it more fair by posting here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 01, 2022, 08:06:49 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 01, 2022, 08:04:59 AM

I know this one fellow who was adopted, I suspect his parents provided him with a solid foundation, but he built on that with engineering degrees, started his own company, did well in life, semi-retired to the South somewhere.

I'm aware I was born into a situation that afforded me inherent benefits, a middle class family and education, no huge advantages, but my parents believed in education.  I ended up OK also.

We started a scholarship at my kids' HS for students who did very well overall but had not specific point of excellence and wouldn't get an academic scholarship.  Most of the receipients came from disadvantaged families as it turned out, that wasn't a criterion but it informally became one, fine with me, it didn't go to students with wealthy parents.  One went to the son of our postal delivery guy.  It made a difference for them, a hand up for students who had worked hard.  We were invited to the wedding of one of them and we went, his father broke down in tears when we showed up.

Heh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 01, 2022, 08:26:26 AM

Takeoff, one of the 3 members of the popular Atlanta based rap group Migos was shot dead at 2:30am this morning in Houston TX. Just confusing, he wasn't really one of those "gangster" rappers who was picking fights and causing trouble trying to be a gangster. Very sad and tragic, and it just seems like famous rappers are getting shot dead all of the damn time. It's crazy. You don't see famous pop, country, or rock artists getting shot dead out here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2022, 08:29:06 AM

At 2:30 AM, most of the other singer types are in bed, with someone else perhaps.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on November 01, 2022, 08:55:58 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 01, 2022, 08:26:26 AM

Takeoff, one of the 3 members of the popular Atlanta based rap group Migos was shot dead at 2:30am this morning in Houston TX. Just confusing, he wasn't really one of those "gangster" rappers who was picking fights and causing trouble trying to be a gangster. Very sad and tragic, and it just seems like famous rappers are getting shot dead all of the damn time. It's crazy. You don't see famous pop, country, or rock artists getting shot dead out here.

Oh no, not Takeoff.  I really liked his stuff.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 01, 2022, 09:02:11 AM

Quote from: Gigem on November 01, 2022, 08:55:58 AM

Oh no, not Takeoff.  I really liked his stuff. 

he was only 28 years old....crazy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2022, 09:34:01 AM

I'll be buying my powerball tickets in South Dakota from now on.

Pierre is a nice drive and decent city along the river

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 01, 2022, 10:40:33 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 01, 2022, 08:06:15 AM

If you think life isn't fair, and would like to remedy that to some modest degree, do something yourself, other than whining about it on message boards.  Help someone who needs help and make it slightly more fair.

You're not going to make it more fair by posting here.

But.....whining on message boards is my thing.  

Kinda limiting my options.  

Not fair.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2022, 01:56:35 PM

Next you'll be whining about some hotel accomodations that were not up to your lofty standards ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 01, 2022, 02:10:14 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 01, 2022, 08:01:30 AM

Yes, it is.

What planet do you live on?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2022, 02:12:16 PM

I'm pretty sure we all reside on Planet Earth, though perhaps we have a few aliens among us.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 01, 2022, 02:13:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 01, 2022, 07:22:30 AM

They do everywhere, in France, Sweden, China, it's not a secret.  Did you just discover this?

I was pointing out that you kind of contradicted yourself.  But mirrors aren't a thing around here, I see.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 01, 2022, 02:14:09 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 01, 2022, 02:10:14 PM

What planet do you live on?

Florida.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 01, 2022, 02:18:10 PM

Life isn't fair anywhere, including Florida.....maybe especially Florida.  
See:  hurricane insurance not including flood damage
.
Crock of horse shit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2022, 02:25:24 PM

I think flood damage is often a rider, earthquake damage as well.  

Is Hurricane Damage Covered by Home or Flood Insurance? - ValuePenguin (https://www.valuepenguin.com/homeowners-insurance-hurricane-damage)

No specific insurance policy provides hurricane coverage, but certain hurricane damage may be covered by your homeowners or renters insurance policy, depending on where you live and your coverage. Flooding due to hurricanes is consistently excluded from home and renters insurance—for that, you should consider a flood insurance policy.
Homeowners may also have to supplement their coverage with windstorm insurance, if they're in hurricane-prone regions such as parts of Florida, Louisiana and Texas. In case of hurricane damage, you may need to file a claim under one or all of these policies to receive proper compensation.

• When does homeowners insurance cover hurricanes? (https://www.valuepenguin.com/homeowners-insurance-hurricane-damage#home)
• How does flood insurance cover hurricanes? (https://www.valuepenguin.com/homeowners-insurance-hurricane-damage#flood)
• When does renters insurance cover hurricane damage? (https://www.valuepenguin.com/homeowners-insurance-hurricane-damage#rent)
• What about my car? (https://www.valuepenguin.com/homeowners-insurance-hurricane-damage#auto)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on November 01, 2022, 02:26:12 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 01, 2022, 09:02:11 AM

he was only 28 years old....crazy

I was being sarcastic :72:

Like most middle aged men, I have no idea who he is, or almost any other singer under the age of about 35.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 01, 2022, 02:30:32 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 01, 2022, 02:18:10 PM

Life isn't fair anywhere, including Florida.....maybe especially Florida. 
See:  hurricane insurance not including flood damage
.
Crock of horse shit.

Homeowner's Insurance is like it is in any other state.

Your lender might require flood insurance if your home is in a flood zone, just like any other state.

(Given what I do for a living, you can probably guess that I would never buy a house in a flood zone.)

Hurricane insurance is a completely separate rider to a policy.

(We currently have it, but we will consider dropping it on the next renewal.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2022, 02:47:05 PM

Insurance companies are in business to make money


a necessary evil

like bankers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 01, 2022, 02:48:56 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 01, 2022, 02:47:05 PM

Insurance companies are in business to make money


a necessary evil

like bankers

And engineers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2022, 02:55:49 PM

Why don't we just have government run these businesses at zero profit?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 01, 2022, 03:38:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 01, 2022, 02:55:49 PM

Why don't we just have government run these businesses at zero profit?

The more government stays the hell out of our business the better

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 01, 2022, 03:58:11 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 01, 2022, 02:47:05 PM

Insurance companies are in business to make money


a necessary evil

like bankers

Lawyers, guns, and money.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 01, 2022, 04:08:30 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on November 01, 2022, 03:58:11 PM

Lawyers, guns, and money.

Engineers, guns and money. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 01, 2022, 04:26:54 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 01, 2022, 04:08:30 PM

Engineers, guns and money. :)

Gotta engineer the better guns for money. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 01, 2022, 04:29:51 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 01, 2022, 04:08:30 PM

Engineers, guns and money. :)

Leave Zevon's masterpiece alone,bastage

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 02, 2022, 09:36:27 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 01, 2022, 02:55:49 PM

Why don't we just have government run these businesses at zero profit?

:a102:

No thank you. We don't need government more involved in our lives. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 02, 2022, 09:40:26 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 01, 2022, 02:30:32 PM

(Given what I do for a living, you can probably guess that I would never buy a house in a flood zone.)

What DO you do for a living?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2022, 09:50:08 AM

I'm a P.E., a P.L.S. and a C.F.M.

I also post here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 02, 2022, 10:27:08 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2022, 09:50:08 AM

I'm a P.E., a P.L.S. and a C.F.M.

I also post here.

Ohh.  So tempting 847.   😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 02, 2022, 10:35:16 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 02, 2022, 09:36:27 AM

:a102:

No thank you. We don't need government more involved in our lives.

C'mon Sleepy Joe and medusa Pelosi aren't good enough for you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2022, 10:52:13 AM

I notice often that attempts to make "life fair" end up doing the oppposite.

"We" set out to "tax the rich" and of course end up taxing incomes, some of which is pretty easy to dodge anyway, and the wealthy chuckle.  But it is not fair.

My kids would say that until they were about 10.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 02, 2022, 11:39:45 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 02, 2022, 09:40:26 AM

What DO you do for a living?

He’s SUPPOSED to be retired.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2022, 12:05:18 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 02, 2022, 11:39:45 AM

He’s SUPPOSED to be retired.

It would hurt my company too much.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2022, 12:09:57 PM

When I retired, I was replaced by TWO others at my level.  TWO.  I was truly shocked when I was told this as I had almost nothing to do for the years I was in that position.

My boss was trying to build an empire to justify getting promoted to the next level.  Last I heard he was still working at his same level.  He was promoted to that level early in circa 1985 and is still there, it really gauls him.

I think I helped the company when I departed as I was nearly worthless to them, but they had to pay me an extra year's salary.  They still prop up my health insurance.  It's amazingly cheap.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 02, 2022, 12:52:05 PM

It'd be nice to enjoy your job and have some sense of fulfillment in it.  Probably the only thing that fits the bill for me was when I used to play music professionally.  That was fun, despite being hard work.  In live situations audiences seemed to enjoy themselves and in recording situations the artists were usually grateful.  That was nice.  But I never did that full time.  I teach a couple classes at my church and some have said they get a lot out of it.  That's rewarding, but it's not a job.  

I used to work for oil companies doing...it doesn't matter, it's so boring I can't stand to describe it.  Good money but nobody missed me when I left the industry and all day you work knowing you don't matter much, if you weren't there, somebody else would just fill the spot and do the same thing.  Lately I've been working for my wife's clinic, where she and the other provider assure me that my job matters, but judging by what they pay me, it doesn't.  I shuffle some papers around and know that an adequately competent 6th-grader could do my job.  

I went back to school for a MS in Data Science.  Should finish next Spring, and hopefully get a job that pays more.  I reckon I still won't have much job satisfaction.  I'll write some code to manipulate some numbers, maybe query a database, feed some other numbers to a machine-learning algorithm and oh god it's so boring I can't even type about it anymore.  In the end I'll know it still doesn't matter.  If I didn't do the job, a company would or wouldn't make some decision that probably doesn't matter much, and anyway, if I didn't do it, somebody else just like me would.  All in all, I'm just another brick in the wall.     

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2022, 12:57:21 PM

I had periods when I was pretty enthused about my job, but mostly I was just dragging the salary.  I was on one very good effective team of about 25 folks who for the most part were competent and got along, that was very rare.  Our managers were competent and got along also, that was unique.  Then the managers retired.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2022, 01:58:22 PM

I like my job, which helps.

I would probably love it if there wasn't so much regulatory mumbo jumbo involved.

One project I had a while back required 28 different permits from various agencies within the municipal, township, county, state and federal bureaucracies. That sucked.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 02, 2022, 02:03:15 PM

I've been really enjoying my new job that started last December
doesn't feel like work

my previous job for over 23 years was not enjoyable

I'd be retired today if not for this fresh start at something enjoyable

I might work another 5 years

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2022, 02:17:37 PM

The FOMC weighed in today and the stock market took a pretty positive spin on it.

The Fed, I think the least well known component of government (in effect) with the greatest influence over our lives.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 02, 2022, 02:46:23 PM

maybe I'll retire earlier if the market hits an all-time high

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2022, 02:50:43 PM

Heh, markets have retrenched back again to about even.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 02, 2022, 03:29:16 PM

That tends to happen when you print your own money and funnel it where it needs to go in order to generate a specific outcome. 

Of course, "evening out" means that your portfolio now vs. your portfolio "then" is still objectively worth less.  It just gets to have the same pretty lines on a chart saying "look, I have pretty lines, right where you remember them."  Ignore the price of meat and dairy, don't think about that, just look at the pretty lines. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 02, 2022, 03:29:53 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 01, 2022, 03:38:05 PM

The more government stays the hell out of our business the better

So the idea is that the gov't tries to do big things for the benefit of the people, but does it poorly.  Okay, got it.
But any and every privately-run entity is going to do the big things for the benefit of itself.  And the idea is that the better it does it, the more money it will make for itself, and we all benefit as it improves, right?
.
Except that this idea completely leaves out the fact that the private entity will never just stay statically successful.  It will try to trim costs forever, sacrifice quality for profits to the point it's making 1 more penny than an otherwise better service or product would make. 
.
Why is the greed (or the impossible perpetual quarterly profits, if you wish) always ignored?  It knows no bounds. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2022, 03:49:47 PM

A private company will attempt to maximize profits, yes indeed (presuming they are a for profit company).  The will have competitors attempting to do the same.  They will all, in an open market, attempt to out do each other with better products at a better price thus becoming more attractive to consumers.  If they fail, the consumer will let them know.  It's a market driven economy, the "invisible hand" etc.

In a socialist world, the considerations won't be profit, which is an evil term, but keeping employees (voters) happy.  Freed of competition (and the constraint of needing a profit), they are able to charge and make whatever they want, empty shelves or crappy products would not be a concern.  This is a centrally planned economy, and the more it's planned, the worse it always is, in every case.

I saw it first hand in Cuba, and to a lesser extent in France, and to a lesser extent in the USA.  Cuba was far worse than I expected.  We only saw Havana and I thought they would have spiffed up the tourist area, but it was horrible, and our guide described her daily life, it was unpleasant.  They had shops both government owned and privately owned, the do allow some small businesses to be private.  There was a very obvious difference between  them, I could tell which was which in seconds.

Free markets also can have issues, monopolies can tend to arise and thus you no long have a free market.  Our government used to pay some attention to that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 02, 2022, 04:50:16 PM

and the market went in the shitter

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 02, 2022, 06:36:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 02, 2022, 03:49:47 PM

A private company will attempt to maximize profits, yes indeed (presuming they are a for profit company).  The will have competitors attempting to do the same.  They will all, in an open market, attempt to out do each other with better products at a better price thus becoming more attractive to consumers.  If they fail, the consumer will let them know.  It's a market driven economy, the "invisible hand" etc.

In a socialist world, the considerations won't be profit, which is an evil term, but keeping employees (voters) happy.  Freed of competition (and the constraint of needing a profit), they are able to charge and make whatever they want, empty shelves or crappy products would not be a concern.  This is a centrally planned economy, and the more it's planned, the worse it always is, in every case.

I saw it first hand in Cuba, and to a lesser extent in France, and to a lesser extent in the USA.  Cuba was far worse than I expected.  We only saw Havana and I thought they would have spiffed up the tourist area, but it was horrible, and our guide described her daily life, it was unpleasant.  They had shops both government owned and privately owned, the do allow some small businesses to be private.  There was a very obvious difference between  them, I could tell which was which in seconds.

Free markets also can have issues, monopolies can tend to arise and thus you no long have a free market.  Our government used to pay some attention to that.

You start out good, having a prudent response.....then you bring in Cuba for some reason.
Nevermind.
The leaps made by some of you, 4 seconds into a conversation, make it basically impossible to have an valid discussions here.  Cuba?  That's the alternative to privatizing prisons and schools and more?  Welp, it's either that or become Cuba!

FFS

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2022, 06:43:23 PM

Cuba is an example of a centrally planned economy.  And I've been there.  It's not good, at all.

There is a key issue with central planning, in every case.  Cuba is but one example with which I had some experience.

I said nothing whatsoever about prisons or schools, that is not a topic of discussion in this thread, for me anyway.  This is about economic systems, not prisons.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 02, 2022, 07:07:56 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 02, 2022, 03:29:53 PM

So the idea is that the gov't tries to do big things for the benefit of the people, but does it poorly.  Okay, got it.
But any and every privately-run entity is going to do the big things for the benefit of itself.  And the idea is that the better it does it, the more money it will make for itself, and we all benefit as it improves, right?
.
Except that this idea completely leaves out the fact that the private entity will never just stay statically successful.  It will try to trim costs forever, sacrifice quality for profits to the point it's making 1 more penny than an otherwise better service or product would make. 
.
Why is the greed (or the impossible perpetual quarterly profits, if you wish) always ignored?  It knows no bounds. 

and everybody knows there is no greed in our government

and everybody knows the more the government gets involved the more it tries to determine how you should live your life

and everyone knows the government would never promote free handouts for political gain or pick on you for your beliefs

yep I want the government to run all the important services I now get privately

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2022, 07:09:52 PM

Fact check: Biden falsely claims the most common gas price was over $5 when he took office | CNN Politics (https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/28/politics/fact-check-biden-gas-prices/index.html)

Fact check: White House deletes misleading tweet about Social Security | CNN Politics (https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/02/politics/fact-check-biden-white-house-tweet-social-security-inflation/index.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 03, 2022, 12:37:02 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 02, 2022, 07:07:56 PM

and everybody knows there is no greed in our government

and everybody knows the more the government gets involved the more it tries to determine how you should live your life

You just prefer a CEO to do it, instead.  Cool.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 03, 2022, 12:37:55 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 02, 2022, 06:43:23 PM

Cuba is an example of a centrally planned economy.  

Who advocated for that here?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2022, 08:02:01 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 03, 2022, 12:37:55 AM

Who advocated for that here?

I simply used it as an example as I outlined the two basic forms of economic systems.  Quite a few humans "like" a centrally planned economy, you know, because it's "fair".  No rich folks, no poor folks, everyone gets the same medical care and legal help, etc.  It's nirvana, and "fair".

Spread the wealth, Robin Hood the billionaires, get the poor out of poverty.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 03, 2022, 09:34:16 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 02, 2022, 03:29:53 PM

So the idea is that the gov't tries to do big things for the benefit of the people, but does it poorly.  Okay, got it.
But any and every privately-run entity is going to do the big things for the benefit of itself.  And the idea is that the better it does it, the more money it will make for itself, and we all benefit as it improves, right?
.
Except that this idea completely leaves out the fact that the private entity will never just stay statically successful.  It will try to trim costs forever, sacrifice quality for profits to the point it's making 1 more penny than an otherwise better service or product would make. 
.
Why is the greed (or the impossible perpetual quarterly profits, if you wish) always ignored?  It knows no bounds. 

I'm not sure who pulled your string, but you are very quick to attack others based on their distrust of goverment.

Do you know who else did not trust government? The Founders. They understood that governments were made up of falable humans and attract people with illusions of power. They understood that the smaller you keep government, the better for the citizens. They saw government as a necessary evil which should be restrained by the people. 

But perhaps you are right and those evil, white, slave owners had no idea what they were talking about. Maybe we should keep electing honest and brilliant people like Biden and Harris and have them tell us how to live our lives. Even though it has never worked in the history of the world before, it should work this time. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 03, 2022, 09:35:48 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2022, 08:02:01 AM

I simply used it as an example as I outlined the two basic forms of economic systems.  Quite a few humans "like" a centrally planned economy, you know, because it's "fair".  No rich folks, no poor folks, everyone gets the same medical care and legal help, etc.  It's nirvana, and "fair".

Spread the wealth, Robin Hood the billionaires, get the poor out of poverty.

Well I will say that the one promise of a central planning system is that they do make everyone equal, that is equally poor. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2022, 09:40:53 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 03, 2022, 09:35:48 AM

Well I will say that the one promise of a central planning system is that they do make everyone equal, that is equally poor.

Usually, not everyone of course.  Every economy has some degree of central planning, it's inherent.  Sweden tried the experiment in the 1990s, not well known I think, they drifted pretty hard into socialism, and bad things happened, and they pulled back pretty hard.  It's a mostly free market economy today.

Norway is more socialistic, but they have the advantage of North Sea oil entirely owned by the government.  They've done rather well as a result.  It can work if you have a "gold mine", so to speak, at least until the mine plays out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 03, 2022, 10:18:08 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2022, 09:40:53 AM

Usually, not everyone of course.  Every economy has some degree of central planning, it's inherent.  Sweden tried the experiment in the 1990s, not well known I think, they drifted pretty hard into socialism, and bad things happened, and they pulled back pretty hard.  It's a mostly free market economy today.

Norway is more socialistic, but they have the advantage of North Sea oil entirely owned by the government.  They've done rather well as a result.  It can work if you have a "gold mine", so to speak, at least until the mine plays out.

I don't know why people keep holding up the Nordic countries as examples of what socialism can be.  They're not socialist.  In particular, Sweden is more capitalist than the USA...far less restrictions and government regulation in the free market.  More incentives and less penalties to be a business owner.  The average American I see supporting socialism also does not understand what the income tax structure is in those countries--it's directly opposite of what they think is "fair."  In fact (I'll just use Sweden in particular as an example again) the tax system is exactly what they think the Republican party wants/has done in the US, that they claim to hate and deem unfair.  Mind you, I'm not claiming the Republican party has done much of anything helpful with taxes that I think should be done.  I'm strictly noting what the typical liberal perception of the Republican party is, and that a country like Sweden is closer to that than anything we actually have here, yet somehow Sweden is a socialist paradise.  

I also can't figure out why the young US would-be socialists can't figure out that to any extent the Nordic countries are actually doing something they want here, Democratic leaders aren't aiming in that direction.  Like, at all.  If you want to look at the policies actually supported by the blue leaders, the country that implements the closest comparison is Venezuela.  

My step-sons' step-mother (yeah, I know) is from Venezuela.  According to her, there are quite a few reasons why she's here instead.  I just read about stuff.  She's lived it.    

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2022, 10:24:50 AM

I do opine Denmark and Sweden are pretty nice places.  And as you say, they have largely free market economies, very high taxes on the middle classes and generous social benefits.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2022, 10:33:49 AM

The grass is always greener until it isn't.

This country, as founded, is the best example for the World from a freedom perspective. Unfortunately, many freedoms are eroding with time. 

We've seen a lot of change during our time on this earth, and even Moreso in the past 30 years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2022, 10:37:25 AM

I still feel as free as I did 30 years back.  I'm not sure what I've lost.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 03, 2022, 10:50:35 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2022, 10:37:25 AM

I still feel as free as I did 30 years back.  I'm not sure what I've lost.

Do you feel any sense of loss when it was recently revealed that our government is teaming up with various social media to censor unwanted speech?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2022, 10:58:51 AM

Patriot Act...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2022, 11:21:05 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 03, 2022, 10:50:35 AM

Do you feel any sense of loss when it was recently revealed that our government is teaming up with various social media to censor unwanted speech?

No, I did not, at all.  Nor did the Patriot Act limit my freedom that I could discern.

One could state the rise in crime tends to limit freedom, and I'd agree broadly, but violent crime is still down versus 30 years ago.  Taxes are down on income, higher taxes would limit my freedom.  I pretty much do whatever I did back then, with changes of course in condition.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 03, 2022, 11:27:35 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2022, 11:21:05 AM

No, I did not, at all.  Nor did the Patriot Act limit my freedom that I could discern.

One could state the rise in crime tends to limit freedom, and I'd agree broadly, but violent crime is still down versus 30 years ago.  Taxes are down on income, higher taxes would limit my freedom.  I pretty much do whatever I did back then, with changes of course in condition.

Baghdad Bob lives

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2022, 11:33:17 AM

"What is the use of living, if it be not to strive for noble causes and to make this muddled world a better place for those who will live in it after we are gone? How else can we put ourselves in harmonious relation with the great verities and consolations of the infinite and the eternal? And I avow my faith that we are marching towards better days. Humanity will not be cast down. We are going on swinging bravely forward along the grand high road and already behind the distant mountains is the promise of the sun." - Winston Churchill

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2022, 11:47:53 AM

President Joe Biden, with less than a week to go until the midterms, delivered a speech Wednesday night condemning political violence and urging voters to protect democracy.

"We must with an overwhelming voice stand against political violence and voter intimidation, period," he said. "Stand up and speak against it. We don't settle our differences in America with a riot, a mob, or a bullet or a hammer. We settle them peacefully at the ballot box."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 03, 2022, 12:01:02 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 03, 2022, 11:47:53 AM

President Joe Biden, with less than a week to go until the midterms, delivered a speech Wednesday night condemning political violence and urging voters to protect democracy.

"We must with an overwhelming voice stand against political violence and voter intimidation, period," he said. "Stand up and speak against it. We don't settle our differences in America with a riot, a mob, or a bullet or a hammer. We settle them peacefully at the ballot box."

agreed which will happen next Tuesday

God Bless America

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 03, 2022, 12:03:57 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 03, 2022, 10:50:35 AM

Do you feel any sense of loss when it was recently revealed that our government is teaming up with various social media to censor unwanted speech?

The big Intercept report on that which made the rounds last week turned out to be kind of bunk.

Calls for government censorship based on viewpoint are alive and well, from both sides of the aisle. Private “censorship” is in itself an act of exercising that one‘s free association rights, and can either be countered with more private speech or different association.

We’ve evolved to a point where are free-speech discourse conflates the legal elements of free speech and sort of moral norms/norms of politeness. And most of that covers for a reality that a distressing majority of folks who get worked up believe strongly that speech they agree with is under attack (either in the legal or norms sense) but speech they dislike should be attacked in both senses.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 03, 2022, 12:26:55 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2022, 10:37:25 AM

I still feel as free as I did 30 years back.  I'm not sure what I've lost.

Perhaps it hasn't affected you specifically in your day-to-day life, but I'd recommend taking a look at the powers the federal government has assumed in your lifetime contrary to Amendment 10 (I think?) which loosely translated says the feds can't just assume powers not specifically granted to it by the Constitution.  Granted, these powers were reserved a government--the states--but there are a number of reasons I won't get into here why this is different--and better--than the federal government taking on expanded roles (and yeah, the states taking on more than they should is also a problem).  This has been rampantly trampled on in my lifetime.  The judicial branch creates law from the bench.  Neaux.  Every presidential administration in my adult life has "ruled" more akin to a king than a US President, creating fiat law by executive orders.  Again, neaux.  (Yes, I know EO's are a thing.  The scope of them that we've gotten to is not supposed to be a thing.)  This is the tip of the iceberg.  The more power the government has, by definition the less freedom you have.  And the government is much, much more powerful and pervasive than when you were a young man.  Think about something as mundane as the AFA.....the Federal government mandated that every citizen was compelled to purchase insurance on pain of financial penalty.  That was unthinkable even when I was in college.  That limited freedom, it was noticeable, and it was distressingly run-of-the-mill.  Ask Badger about owning a business.  You think he'd tell you his freedom as a business owner is more or less than it was 30 years ago?  

Free speech is not so technically different, but in practice it is, particularly as pertains to religion and politics.  Yet in several instances, it has in fact been legally curtailed.  

Censorship, information flow-control, and gaslighting has reached levels I wouldn't have dreamed of 20 years ago.  This has as much to do with tech companies as governmental issues, but the effects are the same, and I'm so aware of them to the point it stuns me when someone else isn't.  Maybe you don't see this as a freedom issue.  I think it absolutely is.  

My taxes are not better/lower.  Don't know how you've managed it.  For me and my wife, things are not better than they were in our early 20's.  Even if they were, government spending is way up, and though government spending may not be something you think of as "freedom," it is related.  The more recklessly the government spends money it doesn't have, the more our future selves are indebted to the future government.  That's moving in the other direction from "freedom."  

The Patriot Act was/is a cluster (thanks, W.) even if you don't feel it in your everyday life.  Few citizens have directly felt the adverse effects--that I know of--but the fact that three-letter agencies have so much more leeway when they do decide to mess with somebody concerns me.  The mere potential is what should be concerning, and why I feel less "free" than before Bush's administration pushed it through.  

I can't presume to tell you how you feel, but I submit that if you don't feel any less free than you did 30 years ago, you aren't trying to step in many of the places many other citizens are trying to.  Try having my political and religions opinions and see how it flies when applying to or working for a Fortune 500 company.  The response and consequences are patently NOT like they were 30 years ago.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 03, 2022, 12:30:16 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 03, 2022, 11:47:53 AM

President Joe Biden, with less than a week to go until the midterms, delivered a speech Wednesday night condemning political violence and urging voters to protect democracy.

"We must with an overwhelming voice stand against political violence and voter intimidation, period," he said. "Stand up and speak against it. We don't settle our differences in America with a riot, a mob, or a bullet or a hammer. We settle them peacefully at the ballot box."

Psh.  Riots and mobs "settled differences" across every progressive city in the country throughout the summer of 2020.  

Hell, at this point I'm just glad Biden has stopped saying his son died in Iraq, or talked about speaking with the congresswoman who's dead now.  Oh, wait...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 03, 2022, 12:42:45 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 03, 2022, 12:03:57 PM

We’ve evolved to a point where are free-speech discourse conflates the legal elements of free speech and sort of moral norms/norms of politeness. And most of that covers for a reality that a distressing majority of folks who get worked up believe strongly that speech they agree with is under attack (either in the legal or norms sense) but speech they dislike should be attacked in both senses.

This is something I've also noticed along the way.  There are definitely different "spheres" largely controlled by one side or the other where certain opinions are likely to be ridiculed, or even perhaps outright banned.  I would suggest that it's worth noting when either side has control of the majority of those spheres.  

It's tempting for a guy like me to say hey, a rule or law that stops people from saying racist stuff would be a good thing, right?  Then I think about my affinity for free speech and I wonder what my disconnect is.  Then I think about it some more and I realize, you know what, I actually want the racists to be able to say whatever dumb things they want to say.  They out themselves so much quicker that way and I can waste less time with a-holes because they're not pretending to be something they're not.  Somebody wants to have a club where only white supremacists are allowed in?  Go ahead.  That's free info for me that I don't want anything to do with a member of that club.  Saves a lot of time and effort for me.  There is such a thing as the social free market, a societal evolution, if you will, and I'd rather let every dumb opinion compete in the marketplace of ideas with trust and hope that the best ones will win.  1) Ideas that get banned don't go away, they just hide and fester and down the road lead to worse people subscribing to them when a shining light would've exposed that stupidity long ago.  2)  Who decides what gets banned and what we get to keep?  My moral compass is pretty good...maybe it should be me.  But then, regardless of whether I'm right or not, that just makes me your tyrant.  No thanks.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2022, 01:00:08 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 03, 2022, 12:03:57 PM

The big Intercept report on that which made the rounds last week turned out to be kind of bunk.

Calls for government censorship based on viewpoint are alive and well, from both sides of the aisle. Private “censorship” is in itself an act of exercising that one‘s free association rights, and can either be countered with more private speech or different association.

We’ve evolved to a point where are free-speech discourse conflates the legal elements of free speech and sort of moral norms/norms of politeness. And most of that covers for a reality that a distressing majority of folks who get worked up believe strongly that speech they agree with is under attack (either in the legal or norms sense) but speech they dislike should be attacked in both senses.

Tell that to these guys.


(https://i.imgur.com/xJjp1LK.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 03, 2022, 01:12:33 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2022, 01:00:08 PM

Tell that to these guys.


(https://i.imgur.com/xJjp1LK.png)

A. Sigh
B. That sentiment is right, even if that article was mostly fear-stirring bunk
C. Someone at the ACLU firing from the hip is ... sadly not surprising. That org has done a lot of good work and still does some, but it's also fair to say they've strayed from their mission in some unsettling ways (unrelated to this post)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 03, 2022, 01:14:15 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 03, 2022, 12:42:45 PM

It's tempting for a guy like me to say hey, a rule or law that stops people from saying racist stuff would be a good thing, right?  

Beyond that, you're trusting the government to decide what's "racist," and neither side is gonna be happy with what comes out of that, depending on the year and place. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 03, 2022, 01:15:21 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 03, 2022, 01:12:33 PM

A. Sigh
B. That sentiment is right, even if that article was mostly fear-stirring bunk
C. Someone at the ACLU firing from the hip is ... sadly not surprising. That org has done a lot of good work and still does some, but it's also fair to say they've strayed from their mission in some unsettling ways (unrelated to this post)

seems to me you are criticizing the messenger instead of the message

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2022, 01:25:04 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 03, 2022, 01:12:33 PM

A. Sigh
B. That sentiment is right, even if that article was mostly fear-stirring bunk
C. Someone at the ACLU firing from the hip is ... sadly not surprising. That org has done a lot of good work and still does some, but it's also fair to say they've strayed from their mission in some unsettling ways (unrelated to this post)

The feds 'disinformation' fight is censorship, pure and simple (nypost.com) (https://nypost.com/2022/11/01/the-feds-disinformation-fight-is-censorship-pure-and-simple/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 03, 2022, 01:26:53 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 03, 2022, 01:15:21 PM

seems to me you are criticizing the messenger instead of the message

To which messenger are you referring?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 03, 2022, 01:33:26 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2022, 01:25:04 PM

The feds 'disinformation' fight is censorship, pure and simple (nypost.com) (https://nypost.com/2022/11/01/the-feds-disinformation-fight-is-censorship-pure-and-simple/)

That is an opinion piece from an outlet that churns politicized red meat. It seeks to confirm biases and division instead of deliver truth or information.

(That is not to say the government does not put undue and flat wrong pressure on social media sites, but by most indications, this ain’t it)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2022, 02:07:43 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 03, 2022, 01:33:26 PM

That is an opinion piece from an outlet that churns politicized red meat. It seeks to confirm biases and division instead of deliver truth or information.

(That is not to say the government does not put undue and flat wrong pressure on social media sites, but by most indications, this ain’t it)

Yes, the outlet that Twitter suspended (under FBI pressure) for a true laptop story in October 2020. A story that has been proven true.

That outlet.

If an outlet like that, with dozens of lawyers and millions of readers, can be silenced, what do you think could happen to YOU?

This is actually really scary stuff.

Ask @Drew4UTk (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1) what he had to go through to keep Big Tech out of our business here (OK, it was the board down South of this one - A51). Seriously. They were (and still are) coming after our little site. What do we have? 200 members?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 03, 2022, 02:22:13 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 03, 2022, 01:26:53 PM

To which messenger are you referring?

ACLU

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on November 03, 2022, 02:23:59 PM

what happened here was astounding, to me anyway. 

the top level domain issuer actually owns the domain name as is the case with any domain... they are the registar - i am the register... when a domain is rented the DNS is pointed to the server that holds the files... that requires a domain server lookup every single time someone types in the name in there address bar.  there are close to 70 worldwide accepted stations that keep these records- as fail safe but also to speed the process... there are more who look it up once and then hold it in cache to be used if it's requested again to save effort/time.  

that cache can be dictated at the registar level- in a TTL (time to live)... most TTL's are in terms of minutes, and 128000 is a good number for sites that don't plan on going anywhere (changing servers)... one of the important steps to consider when moving a domain from one server to another is to set the TTL PRIOR to the move so all the servers in between know to come back and confirm based on a shortened TTL... when i first opened this place and then the company i used for over a decade went tits up i had to do this- and there was downtime when that happened- not for everyone but for some- and because those 'some' registered the new DNS from a server that already updated. 

at any rate, someone changed this sites DNS TTL at the very top level without my permission... without my knowledge... this after a run of registrations here and traffic from three letter agencies.  they were tracked to three letter agencies or they were outright pingback to three letter agencies.  the DNS was sent to an IP that was non-sensical, and the TTL was set in minutes to a astronomical number- like, hundreds of years away.  

i pulled something off i didn't know was possible... i reset the registar to another dedicated IP i had in reserve, and set that IP with a TTL to just minutes... then, I reset the original IP to another domain altogether and ran a series of pushes for the DNS lookup... cache buster, if you would... after a bit i swapped it back to it's original config and it took... it worked. 

the only site either on the server or at the registar that was impacted was this one.  A51 is now behind a membership wall... after several weeks the traffic ceased from those sources, and after the membership rolls were weeded.   there is zero doubt this site was targeted- by gov't or not i can't say for certain, but it's more than strange all the traffic from the alphabet groups happened all at the same time.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 03, 2022, 03:10:30 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 03, 2022, 02:22:13 PM

ACLU

Oh, I really don’t like how they have gotten out of their lane at points to fire off weirdly screechy  liberal things. That’s just where I am.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2022, 03:16:00 PM

I personally still feel as free as I did 30 years ago.  Others personally can feel differently.

There were obviously some shorter term things during COVID that were an issue, but they are entirely gone, for me anyway.

Now if you asked if I thought society today was as free as 30 years ago, I'd have to contemplate that for a while.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 03, 2022, 03:17:42 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2022, 02:07:43 PM

Yes, the outlet that Twitter suspended (under FBI pressure) for a true laptop story in October 2020. A story that has been proven true.

That outlet.

If an outlet like that, with dozens of lawyers and millions of readers, can be silenced, what do you think could happen to YOU?

This is actually really scary stuff.

Ask @Drew4UTk (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1) what he had to go through to keep Big Tech out of our business here (OK, it was the board down South of this one - A51). Seriously. They were (and still are) coming after our little site. What do we have? 200 members?

On the one hand, I think that was a stupid and gross thing that Twitter did. On the other, in situation like that, businesses do you have the right to be that particular kind of gross and stupid. As such, we should respond with our market forces and diversify our ability to observe news. Which, frankly we should do anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 03, 2022, 03:22:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2022, 03:16:00 PM

I personally still feel as free as I did 30 years ago.  Others personally can feel differently.

There were obviously some shorter term things during COVID that were an issue, but they are entirely gone, for me anyway.

Now if you asked if I thought society today was as free as 30 years ago, I'd have to contemplate that for a while.

I definitely feel more free than 30 years ago, but to be fair, I had a bedtime and was it legally allowed to hold a job at that point.

The freedom of society thing is interesting because there is just about no argument that we are not more able to project our speech and more able to consume the speech of others that we have ever been as a society. This is simply a reality.

That being said, we are also much, much more vulnerable to the fallout of other people‘s speech and we run into new conduit problems all over.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 03, 2022, 03:43:39 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 03, 2022, 03:22:58 PM

I definitely feel more free than 30 years ago, but to be fair, I had a bedtime and was it legally allowed to hold a job at that point.

The freedom of society thing is interesting because there is just about no argument that we are not more able to project our speech and more able to consume the speech of others that we have ever been as a society. This is simply a reality.

That being said, we are also much, much more vulnerable to the fallout of other people‘s speech and we run into new conduit problems all over.

Such a weird, far from reality opinion.

People are in jail, fired, cancelled, and otherwise blacklisted in this country- just in the last few years- for simply asking a question or expressing an opinion, in a non violent way. You know this.

The violent ones are the ones pointing the finger at others for being violent.  The original election deniers ( which is not always a bad thing by way in a country where it is supposed to be we the people) are the ones accusing others of being election deniers.  The people skirting around the constitution are the one accusing others of trying to destroy the Constitution. The people who have created An environment where crime actually pays are the ones accusing others of being soft on crime.  The list goes on and on.  It’s like opposite Day on Seinfeld. The people who have most destroyed democracy are the ones accusing others of being a threat to democracy.

I think the good news is there’s enough people out there that have seen through it, and there’s going to be some realignment and accountability coming soon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2022, 03:47:36 PM

I knew there were questions I should not ask at work, maybe I would not be fired, but I'd take damage.  We sat through a LOT of "training" that was complete crap at least once a year in the 1990s.  An old hand told me before the first one to sit quietly and say nothing, he was right.  I told a few folks later the same thing.

It was very amateurish nonsense poorly done by poorly trained "facilitators".  I got called in on one because the technicians revolted.  The  black technicians started it all by arguing with the "facilitator" that he didn't know what he was talking about.  I showed up with my director (who was a couple levels above me) rather wide eyed.

And yes, it was all about how racist everything was.  Circa 1992.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 03, 2022, 03:54:51 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 03, 2022, 03:43:39 PM

Such a weird, far from reality opinion.

People are in jail, fired, cancelled, and otherwise blacklisted in this country- just in the last few years- for simply asking a question or expressing an opinion, in a non violent way. You know this.

The violent ones are the ones pointing the finger at others for being violent.  The original election deniers ( which is not always a bad thing by way in a country where it is supposed to be we the people) are the ones accusing others of being election deniers.  The people skirting around the constitution are the one accusing others of trying to destroy the Constitution. The people who have created An environment where crime actually pays are the ones accusing others of being soft on crime.  The list goes on and on.  It’s like opposite Day on Seinfeld. The people who have most destroyed democracy are the ones accusing others of being a threat to democracy.

I think the good news is there’s enough people out there that have seen through it, and there’s going to be some realignment and accountability coming soon.

I’m not sure which part of what I wrote that addresses/conflicts with. It’s basically a very dramatic telling of the last part.

It’s also worth noting, I suppose, that our freedom in sharing info on a grand skill, makes all the drama feel very close to home.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 03, 2022, 04:39:21 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 03, 2022, 03:54:51 PM

I’m not sure which part of what I wrote that addresses/conflicts with. It’s basically a very dramatic telling of the last part.

It’s also worth noting, I suppose, that our freedom in sharing info on a grand skill, makes all the drama feel very close to home.

You are a very level headed intelligent dude- obvious over time. I have great respect for your opinion- even if I don’t always agree with it or understand it.  We could break bread ( or Bourbon) and disagree all day, and we would still have a good time.

I guess my point is, there are so many places, platforms, and people from all sides were that just is not true. You are not free to express an opinion that disagrees for fear of being shunned or even beaten.  I guess you could still say it’s freedom of speech but it comes with fear of speech.  Not sure how to fix that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2022, 04:43:01 PM

I don't want to do this, but if I did, I wouldn't, and that is wear Confederate flag hats or shirts around here.  I don't want to display Nazi symbols either.  I could probably get away fine with a BLM shirt.  

I don't have sports team stuff on my car for obvious reasons.  I do wear stuff often.  Some things just seem prudent.  I don't go looking for trouble.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2022, 06:16:45 PM

Beyond the Elements: Reactions | NOVA | PBS (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/interactive/beyond-elements-reactions/?fbclid=IwAR3CvIrw4-B9AMVTzbbxNHPCDpmsPlwVKqTC4m-4lz_3qYAd7pckUyide4g)

Four chemical reactions of note.

Fire (oxidation)

Haber Process

Photoshythesis

Cement (calcium carbonate)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 04, 2022, 12:10:14 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 03, 2022, 04:39:21 PM

You are a very level headed intelligent dude- obvious over time. I have great respect for your opinion- even if I don’t always agree with it or understand it.  We could break bread ( or Bourbon) and disagree all day, and we would still have a good time.

I guess my point is, there are so many places, platforms, and people from all sides were that just is not true. You are not free to express an opinion that disagrees for fear of being shunned or even beaten.  I guess you could still say it’s freedom of speech but it comes with fear of speech.  Not sure how to fix that. 

To the bolded, I'm glad I can still trick someone.

On the other part, it's interesting because we have this vortex of so, so much speech. Like, there's never been an era when you could express any opinion without some fear of shunning (and maybe violence). We could argue there's been a narrowing (probably) as political hobbyism has become such a thing. But the main issue is so much speech that's so easy. 

Like, if you said something grotesque or unpopular, it was likely not recorded. Now we put it on the record. And if someone shunned you, it wasn't that many people. Now more people than you could ever hope to know can shun you with no effort. We used to have to clog phone lines or write letters to tell some company to fire someone. Now tens of thousands across the country can put the fear into an employer while driving to work. 

IN some ways, it's the issue of the internet. We can find delightful people to talk football with and say terrible things to someone we've never met, and it's all cut off. 

And in a big way, we're talking norms. We're talking about being nice to people with disagree with. Holding our tongues when we see something that pisses us off. I thin we should do more of this, not because it encourages free speech, but because it encourages better interactions. Like, we're all free to be jerks, but the path to a better world is probably to not be that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on November 04, 2022, 12:40:35 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2022, 04:43:01 PM

I don't have sports team stuff on my car for obvious reasons.

I say you fly that Georgia basketball flag with pride!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 04, 2022, 01:42:43 AM

So I got backed into in a parking lot with both of us in our cars.  I was stationary and he accelerated back into me.
I get the email today that because he told them something different, it's him vs me and they "have to" believe his statement.
.
My car gets damaged and I get to pay for it?  Is there no recourse when someone lies?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 04, 2022, 04:57:57 AM

Some lady at church backed into our parked car a few years back.  I got an estimate on repairs, $1400.  I looked at the damage, some scuffs and the rubber around the bumper was dented in.  I pulled it back out.  The lady said she'd pay for the repair with a check.  My wife showed her the estimate and told her $500 would do.  A week or so later I gave the wife a check for $250 to return to the lady thinking $250 would cover the loss of value to the car for the scuffs.  Lady was happy.

Life is not fair.  Sometimes people lie about things when they see advantage.  And at times there can be no recourse.  Most of it understand this and regret it and suck it up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 04, 2022, 08:25:55 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 04, 2022, 01:42:43 AM

So I got backed into in a parking lot with both of us in our cars.  I was stationary and he accelerated back into me.
I get the email today that because he told them something different, it's him vs me and they "have to" believe his statement.
.
My car gets damaged and I get to pay for it?  Is there no recourse when someone lies?

See if the parking lot owner has cameras. Almost all do these days.

Did you take any pictures?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 04, 2022, 08:27:50 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 03, 2022, 03:43:39 PM

The original election deniers ( which is not always a bad thing by way in a country where it is supposed to be we the people) are the ones accusing others of being election deniers.  The people skirting around the constitution are the one accusing others of trying to destroy the Constitution. The people who have created An environment where crime actually pays are the ones accusing others of being soft on crime.  The list goes on and on.  It’s like opposite Day on Seinfeld. The people who have most destroyed democracy are the ones accusing others of being a threat to democracy.

I think the good news is there’s enough people out there that have seen through it, and there’s going to be some realignment and accountability coming soon.

That dude invented the internet and global warming. Very smart.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 04, 2022, 08:33:35 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 03, 2022, 03:17:42 PM

On the one hand, I think that was a stupid and gross thing that Twitter did. On the other, in situation like that, businesses do you have the right to be that particular kind of gross and stupid. As such, we should respond with our market forces and diversify our ability to observe news. Which, frankly we should do anyway.

Twitter, to me, is a quasi-public utility - like Verizon, the power companies, cable companies, etc.

One of those is unregulated, and one of those has (had) a portal to censor, if you're on the right team.

Imagine a staunch conservative bought an unregulated Verizon and took away all the phones belonging to liberals. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 04, 2022, 08:40:12 AM

I saw links to quite a few conservatives who posted in Twitter.  The same is true for FB, which I usually look at once a day or so.

I don't think they squelch any and all conservative posters, it could very well be their decisions in specific cases are wrong.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 04, 2022, 08:42:45 AM

I was being extreme to make a point.

The point stands. 

Twitter censored opinion and fact when government asked it to. 

Zuckerass has also admitted to this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 04, 2022, 09:28:44 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 04, 2022, 08:27:50 AM

That dude invented the internet and global warming. Very smart.

not to mention he discovered manbearpig. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 04, 2022, 09:38:28 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 04, 2022, 01:42:43 AM

So I got backed into in a parking lot with both of us in our cars.  I was stationary and he accelerated back into me.
I get the email today that because he told them something different, it's him vs me and they "have to" believe his statement.
.
My car gets damaged and I get to pay for it?  Is there no recourse when someone lies?

this is why you ALWAYS call the police and have a citation issued to the driver at fault.

Then there is less lying to the insurance companies.
I learned this lesson the hard way

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 04, 2022, 09:42:05 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 04, 2022, 08:42:45 AM

Zuckerass has also admitted to this.

another douche nozzle that should be tossed out of moving helicopter screaming

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 04, 2022, 09:44:38 AM

Germany ain’t decoupling from China anytime soon | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/international/3716067-germany-aint-decoupling-from-china-anytime-soon/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 04, 2022, 09:59:56 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 04, 2022, 09:28:44 AM

not to mention he discovered manbearpig.

What the hell is that I never bothered - like facespace and twatter

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 04, 2022, 10:04:27 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 04, 2022, 09:59:56 AM

What the hell is that I never bothered - like facespace and twatter

it was from an old south park episode where they were basically clowning al gore....hit the Utoob

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 04, 2022, 10:11:31 AM

Maybe We Should Have Done Something About ManBearPig - South Park - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AW4nSq0hAc)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 04, 2022, 10:38:42 AM

HA!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 04, 2022, 12:33:39 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 04, 2022, 09:42:05 AM

another douche nozzle that should be tossed out of moving helicopter screaming

Well that’s unsettling language 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 04, 2022, 12:46:36 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 04, 2022, 12:33:39 PM

Well that’s unsettling language

but true none the less

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 04, 2022, 01:27:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 04, 2022, 04:57:57 AM

Life is not fair.  Sometimes people lie about things when they see advantage.  And at times there can be no recourse.  Most of it understand this and regret it and suck it up.

No shit, sherlock.
I'm just sharing.
I looked up the penalty for lying on an auto insurance claim and all I found was that your insurer may drop you.  That's it. 
.
Anyway, I'm hoping that he's an idiot and I sent him a threatening text saying I'm going to seek legal action unless he fesses up.
It'll be worth it to go ask if they have camera footage. 
When it happened, I was just glad he didn't speed off.  We got out, talked, and exchanged information.  What a waste of time.  He might as well have sped off....same outcome.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 04, 2022, 01:38:29 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 04, 2022, 12:46:36 PM

but true none the less

I’ll agree to disagree. 

Not that I don’t think he’s a schmuck. But die screaming is a high bar. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 04, 2022, 01:43:21 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 04, 2022, 01:38:29 PM

I’ll agree to disagree.

Not that I don’t think he’s a schmuck. But die screaming is a high bar.

ok ok how bout just hit in the face with a cream pie

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 04, 2022, 01:50:17 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 04, 2022, 01:43:21 PM

ok ok how bout just hit in the face with a cream pie

Tar and feather.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 04, 2022, 01:51:43 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 04, 2022, 08:33:35 AM

Twitter, to me, is a quasi-public utility - like Verizon, the power companies, cable companies, etc.

One of those is unregulated, and one of those has (had) a portal to censor, if you're on the right team.

Imagine a staunch conservative bought an unregulated Verizon and took away all the phones belonging to liberals.

So, while it might feel like a utility, it isn't really. If Twitter shut down tomorrow, relatively few people’s lives would be worse. I get the desire to socialize business that irks us, but it’s not a vital service and is in fact, super replaceable.

Multiple Twitter spin-offs already exist. They’re failing because they’re run badly, but you could make them work.

The last bit is tricky because it reflects narrative and story more than reality. there are millions and millions of people on Twitter who are conservative tweeting out things to their conservative hearts content. And there are liberals who get banned and or shut down for saying stupid and gross stuff (or just stuff that offends someone who reports them). And there’s a general content moderation problem which is that it’s never gonna really work that well at scale. so the argument is that you would need Verizon to take away the cell phones of some people who broke whatever rules Verizon could set up, but maybe not others. (Also, I think ISPs actually can do what you suggested, after a push for more regulation failed)

In the end, Twitter is just a business that collects and sells a lot of people‘s data and holds a weird place in society because a lot of famous people with brain worms are obsessed with it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 04, 2022, 01:53:21 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 04, 2022, 01:50:17 PM

Tar and feather.

So this is something honest, I’ve never truly understood the damage that did to a person. Like was tar a euphemism for something really sticky? Or is it actually super hot tar? The latter always felt sort of grotesque.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 04, 2022, 01:58:49 PM

it's super hot

uncomfortably

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 04, 2022, 02:02:05 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 04, 2022, 01:51:43 PM

So, while it might feel like a utility, it isn't really. If Twitter shut down tomorrow, relatively few people’s lives would be worse. I get the desire to socialize business that irks us, but it’s not a vital service and is in fact, super replaceable.

The entire news industry relies on it now.  As do people ages 25-35.  Yes, it would be replaced, but everyone would have to do that en masse, which would take some time, as they'd all have to kind of agree to land on the same power line, a la a flock of birds.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 04, 2022, 02:14:59 PM

we could all get by w/o Twitter and/or Facebook

youtube, ESPN, or other popular media outlets

there would be some wailing, but not like your internet, electrical power, water/sewer, natural gas, or gasoline provider.

you know, real utilities

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 04, 2022, 02:28:37 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/313401858_6689617771076141_5654281546056626311_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=IEwaikmeVfAAX88j-rf&_nc_oc=AQnn7JOQPA9C_LNCsXvI91zxo5elFo_U4bVd3cpIuNN-IpS6jLEy6M_QHGp791Z6IWc&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfC6cPaFwOg5AEXSNwy3ET9a0LE8gdQ6PoHfnhUYhW3otQ&oe=636A04F1)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 04, 2022, 02:30:38 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 04, 2022, 12:33:39 PM

Well that’s unsettling language

Well then say a prayer for me at your next evening vespers.In the mean time he deserves a good dutch rub,a wedgie followed by a waterboarding......Better?

What was the cost of BudWater FF?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 04, 2022, 02:59:35 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 04, 2022, 02:02:05 PM

The entire news industry relies on it now.  As do people ages 25-35.  Yes, it would be replaced, but everyone would have to do that en masse, which would take some time, as they'd all have to kind of agree to land on the same power line, a la a flock of birds.

Well if it helps a bunch of brain wormed reporters do their jobs more poorly, then by all means make it a big deal

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 04, 2022, 03:10:43 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 04, 2022, 02:02:05 PM

The entire news industry relies on it now.  As do people ages 25-35.  Yes, it would be replaced, but everyone would have to do that en masse, which would take some time, as they'd all have to kind of agree to land on the same power line, a la a flock of birds.

How many times have WE done that with this group of people here?

CFN
Scout
Some other interim I can't recall
CFB51

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 04, 2022, 03:28:12 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 04, 2022, 03:10:43 PM

How many times have WE done that with this group of people here?

CFN
Scout
Some other interim I can't recall
CFB51

Still can't believe you thru us under the bus Pete,thought I forgot,huh?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 04, 2022, 03:29:54 PM

where you the "Silky Boy"?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 04, 2022, 03:49:10 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 04, 2022, 01:53:21 PM

So this is something honest, I’ve never truly understood the damage that did to a person. Like was tar a euphemism for something really sticky? Or is it actually super hot tar? The latter always felt sort of grotesque.

Hot tar, and usually followed with "riding the rail".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 04, 2022, 03:58:07 PM

My wife had me drive her up to Phipp's Plaza this afternoon.  Then back of course, I'm not used to driving in traffic any more, it was pretty bad, 3 PM.  On the way back, we had a car in front of me headed the wrong way on a one way street.  Fortunately everyone stopped and let her turn around.  I'm sure we get a lot of out of towners who miss the signage.

I don't care for shopping malls, this trip cost me a bracelet at Tiffany's.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 04, 2022, 04:38:38 PM

I just bought my first lottery tickets ever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 04, 2022, 06:16:04 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 04, 2022, 03:10:43 PM

How many times have WE done that with this group of people here?

CFN
Scout
Some other interim I can't recall
CFB51

Helps that we mostly like each other, I suppose. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 04, 2022, 06:42:29 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 04, 2022, 03:29:54 PM

where you the "Silky Boy"?

Jeebis that's going back.I remember that moniker being tossed around but can't for the life of me remember who that was

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 04, 2022, 10:34:27 PM

Scrabble with kids is finally fun once they are both 10+.   We had a hilarious effort to play buttwiper tonight.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on November 05, 2022, 07:50:32 AM

Sitting in my deer stand, waiting on sunrise. When we leave here we’ll watch a little college football. Tomorrow we duck hunt. Damn I love the fall. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 05, 2022, 08:36:04 AM

Gigem be safe and fill your tag/stamps out

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 05, 2022, 08:57:42 AM

About what year did some college teams start signaling the offensive plays from the sideline?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on November 05, 2022, 11:04:00 AM

Often wondered that myself. And when did the coaches start using headsets and the whole game coordination get so sophisticated. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 05, 2022, 11:25:54 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 05, 2022, 08:57:42 AM

About what year did some college teams start signaling the offensive plays from the sideline?

A quick google search claims it started with Woody Hayes at OSU in 1967.

All the way into the 1950s, the coach calling plays was against the rules.  The QB/captain handled that responsibility all the way up until then.  They had rules on and off that prevented coaches and backups from even standing on the sidelines, walking along them, etc.  It was forbidden.  
.
One thing loosely tied to this that I don't think most people realize is that college football went 2-platoon (off/def) with unlimited subs for a time ('47-'52), but resorted back to single-platoon for about a decade after that.  Kind of bizarre.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 05, 2022, 11:32:38 AM

Cool website with a snapshot of pro and college stadium layouts, circa 1956.

https://www.footballarchaeology.com/p/todays-tidbit-nfl-and-college-football (https://www.footballarchaeology.com/p/todays-tidbit-nfl-and-college-football)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 06, 2022, 09:06:18 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 04, 2022, 06:42:29 PM

Jeebis that's going back.I remember that moniker being tossed around but can't for the life of me remember who that was

there was a ruthless Buckeye fan that was funny as hell
referred to folks he was jabbing as "Silky Boy"
probably mostly Michigan guys
1997-1999 or so

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 06, 2022, 09:07:27 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 04, 2022, 03:58:07 PM

My wife had me drive her up to Phipp's Plaza this afternoon.  Then back of course, I'm not used to driving in traffic any more, it was pretty bad, 3 PM.  On the way back, we had a car in front of me headed the wrong way on a one way street.  Fortunately everyone stopped and let her turn around.  I'm sure we get a lot of out of towners who miss the signage.

I don't care for shopping malls, this trip cost me a bracelet at Tiffany's. 

how was the pizza?
I trust the jewelry was quality

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 06, 2022, 09:59:52 AM

No pizza, we had lunch at a place called Earl of Sandwich, in the mall, cost $30!!!  The sandwich was just so so.

She liked a pair of earrings that were over $13 K so I talked her into the $400 bracelet.  Relative win.  Tiffany's is really expensive (duh).

My wife worked for a while at a jewlery store in Paris named "Shumay" or something like that which she said was pricier than Tiffany's by a lot.

I also won $21 in the lottery on my bet of $10, so I'm ahead if I don't buy any more tickets.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 06, 2022, 10:10:33 AM

ah, you typed "plaza".  I read pizza.  I'm a little hungry.

If I ever get ahead on lottery tickets

I'll quit the game

I'm guessing a couple thousand $$ would do it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 06, 2022, 10:17:04 AM

Phipp's Plaza is the upscale shopping mall around these parts, across from Lenox Square.  Phipp's has most of the chi chi places.

They are just finishing some kind of major expansion there, but not really the mall part, just adjoining hotel and whatnot.  We should have taken MARTA and missed the traffic but I had to drive to MARTA to get my card updated oddly enough.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 06, 2022, 11:03:33 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 06, 2022, 09:06:18 AM

there was a ruthless Buckeye fan that was funny as hell
referred to folks he was jabbing as "Silky Boy"
probably mostly Michigan guys
1997-1999 or so

No I came into CFN Board around end of '03 beginning of '04.1st two posters I had contact with were gatorama and Carr is my homeboy(anonymous Coward)who I hope returns.Had some exchanges with Grove Blue(Mdot) - he got ran a few times but always rose from the ashes.Glad he did to 😎 and SupMario - going by another name then.BBTS had like a 300 page joke thread going at that time. And Badge who of course had to rub in Lee Evans TD from the yr before because I was the FNG(f****** new guy).After about a year i noticed these evasive species types like you,utee,CWS,HH,MDT and a few others rumaging about(birds of a feather) so I followed them to the Big SWC Board(that's what I called it).Very lively/exposive/entertaining over there.Hopefully some of the prodigals will return maybe even the silky boy dude

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 06, 2022, 11:13:26 AM

boards were crazy back before 2000

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 06, 2022, 11:39:32 AM

They were crazy before the confernces split up.The 1st thing I did 15-16-17 yrs ago when arriving home from work was to log in - Good Times. There were a few TT, A & M,Sooner & Sker fans.Who was the guy who got in the epic arguments with CWS? Man they weren't exchanging Christmas cards they both got the ban hammer a time or two

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 06, 2022, 11:47:23 AM

probably some crazy Horn fan like utee94

oh wait, they still do

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 06, 2022, 11:55:46 AM

I think a lot of us came here with mostly experience on "smack boards" that we found quickly deteriorated into silly name calling.  And maybe we showed up here expecting the same and realized in time this place is way different, we can actually share POVs sensibly (usually).  We even have talked some politics without it getting too out of hand.  Usually.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 06, 2022, 11:56:45 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 06, 2022, 11:47:23 AM

probably some crazy Horn fan like utee94

oh wait, they still do

Wasn't '94 though he had more than his share of funny,salty exchanges.I'd remember the name.To bad we just couldn't have portaled it all over but many didn't put in the effort.What happened to the guy who always chimed in "Morning All" then didn't hear from him until the next morning.Doesn't one of the guys here have a website to the old CFN board - that was interesting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 06, 2022, 12:02:30 PM

PSA - penn stater

his wife is a husker

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 06, 2022, 12:10:02 PM

They didn't have the whole archives just a sample size to see who was there and the subject matter.Someone here dug them up maybe Bwarb,MB or ELA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 06, 2022, 12:15:39 PM

Frog Face had the archive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 06, 2022, 12:18:52 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 06, 2022, 12:15:39 PM

Frog Face had the archive.

Ah another blast from the past SDF out riding the rails and living the dream - hope he doesn't have to park it in LA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 07, 2022, 06:21:10 AM

So, the SEC fines teams when their fans rush the field.  Is that really an impediment?  Maybe a few hold back but most go anyway in the masses?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 07, 2022, 09:25:03 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 07, 2022, 06:21:10 AM

So, the SEC fines teams when their fans rush the field.  Is that really an impediment?  Maybe a few hold back but most go anyway in the masses?

An atmosphere and football win that causes a field storming is the best possible recruitment tool for prospective students that universities have.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 07, 2022, 10:29:22 AM

Yeah, I get it can be dangerous etc., but I'd forget about the fines.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 07, 2022, 04:59:40 PM

Florida doesn't storm the field.
1 - I'm not sure if they still do it, but they used to have cops on horses along each end zone as the games ended as a deterrent
2 - we're all probably so arrogant, that storming the field is for big upsets, and any time Florida wins in the Swamp, it's no upset.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 07, 2022, 06:47:55 PM

Oh really,the Gators are 2-4 in conference this year so if UT,LSU,Bama,Ole Miss were to play & lose there this year,it's no upset.Yup you have magical powers alright,perhaps you meant magical powders

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 08, 2022, 11:20:21 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 07, 2022, 06:47:55 PM

Oh really,the Gators are 2-4 in conference this year so if UT,LSU,Bama,Ole Miss were to play & lose there this year,it's no upset.Yup you have magical powers alright,perhaps you meant magical powders

But they've still "been there before". 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 08, 2022, 11:28:11 AM

So I like 538 for political forecasts:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2022-election-forecast/

They say:

• 57/100 (a little less than three in five) chance that R's take Senate and House.
• 27/100 (a little better than one in four) hat D's keep Senate, R's take House.
• 15/100 (a little better than one in seven) chance that D's keep Senate and House.
• 1/100 (negligible) chance that R's take Senate, D's keep House.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 08, 2022, 06:24:03 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 07, 2022, 06:47:55 PM

Oh really,the Gators are 2-4 in conference this year so if UT,LSU,Bama,Ole Miss were to play & lose there this year,it's no upset.Yup you have magical powers alright,perhaps you meant magical powders

You hate me so much that I can't even call all Gators fans arrogant and make a joke at our own expense.

Damn, man.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 08, 2022, 08:45:22 PM

Wokemonn,That's rich take a look at your jabs,just following suit, I hate you like i hate dirty sox/shorts that need to be cleaned.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 08, 2022, 11:03:04 PM

I saw a pretty humorous storming of the field over the weekend that I believe was historical for two reasons. 

• It was the first time that fans have ever stormed the field at Dixie State/Utah Tech.
• It was the first time that any fan base anywhere has ever stormed the field because they beat Southern Utah.

Now I of course cannot prove either of those claims. But come on. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 09, 2022, 01:01:14 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 08, 2022, 08:45:22 PM

Wokemonn,That's rich take a look at your jabs,just following suit, I hate you like i hate dirty sox/shorts that need to be cleaned.

Just diversify a bit, yeah?  The singular 'psychotic woke radical' thing is really boring.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 09, 2022, 08:58:17 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/z4jH6bM.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 09, 2022, 08:58:35 AM

View from hotel 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 09, 2022, 09:08:51 AM

I woke up in a Hotel, 30 miles from home

Hilton Garden Inn Riverfront

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 09, 2022, 10:36:52 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 09, 2022, 09:08:51 AM

I woke up in a Hotel, 30 miles from home

Hilton Garden Inn Riverfront

As long as you planned to wake up there …

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 09, 2022, 11:58:13 AM

We've "been there before" but it didn't stop fans from storming the field after Ole Miss this year.  Kinda embarrassing, really.  I guess that's what happens when you're .500 for a couple years.  

Bama is a bit more understandable.  Speaking of, the crowd caused an earthquake again, a la vs. Auburn in 1988.  Twice, this time, actually.  Baton Rouge is a rowdy bunch and apparently they're good at screaming and stomping.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 09, 2022, 10:41:28 PM

I read that Brian Kelly only had two wins against top 10 teams in the last 9 years at Notre Dame.  (I don't know if that's accurate.)  He's matched that in his first year at the new gig.

With the dismantling of Clemson, Marcus Freeman already has half that with Notre Dame in his first year.

That divorce may wind up working out well for everybody. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 09, 2022, 11:04:42 PM

Guy evades police in SoCal for 2 hours, stealing 3 cars in the process. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkhAwabc1Mw&t=112s

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 09, 2022, 11:15:05 PM

Another disgruntled Dodger fan?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 10, 2022, 07:13:19 AM

They should give him the choice 2 hrs of taser or caning.Or tie him to a pole and let the owners of the vehicles he crashed have their way with him

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2022, 09:30:42 AM

death by Ru Ru

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 10, 2022, 10:03:00 AM

I like the caning idea.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2022, 10:13:06 AM

RU RU is much worse IMO

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on November 10, 2022, 02:45:55 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 09, 2022, 09:08:51 AM

I woke up in a Hotel, 30 miles from home

Hilton Garden Inn Riverfront

You're only in trouble depending on who woke up next to you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2022, 02:49:56 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 09, 2022, 10:36:52 AM

As long as you planned to wake up there …

Quote from: ELA on November 10, 2022, 02:45:55 PM

You're only in trouble depending on who woke up next to you

safe and safe

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 10, 2022, 05:04:58 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 10, 2022, 09:30:42 AM

death by Ru Ru

Keep your sordid fantasies to yourself

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 10, 2022, 11:22:39 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/gE9Edc5.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 10, 2022, 11:23:34 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/CIebg3Z.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 10, 2022, 11:52:49 PM

Wow, Atlanta HAS changed a lot!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2022, 06:32:02 AM

When did NYC grow mountains?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 11, 2022, 11:40:41 AM

Somewhere between 12-16 years old.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2022, 04:27:57 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/314970672_676146007211516_5280106642039366606_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Abowl4y1FZAAX9EVaq0&tn=eImI5voWDU_4_6gs&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfA3H2ZeT4R2AyhYw9DbzpVzETS14a1aXItQTQBhCjj8qQ&oe=6373C347)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 11, 2022, 04:30:24 PM

They usually grow mountains in Southern California or Miami 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 11, 2022, 06:38:52 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 11, 2022, 04:27:57 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/314970672_676146007211516_5280106642039366606_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Abowl4y1FZAAX9EVaq0&tn=eImI5voWDU_4_6gs&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfA3H2ZeT4R2AyhYw9DbzpVzETS14a1aXItQTQBhCjj8qQ&oe=6373C347)

A Captain has to keep abreast of situations on the Deck of a Starship

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 12, 2022, 04:23:20 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 11, 2022, 04:30:24 PM

They usually grow mountains in Southern California or Miami

usually build them. great surgeons. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 12, 2022, 10:04:24 AM

Hey @Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) - Are things still red hot over there with your business? Things seem to be cooling a bit relative to home sales here, but not by much. Lots of cash buyers out there still.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 14, 2022, 10:32:32 AM

This is not good. Terrible, in fact. It's being reported that the shooter is a current student and former football player at Virginia.

(https://i.imgur.com/wIb7nYb.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 14, 2022, 10:38:41 AM

Why can't they just turn the barrel against themselves or get help.RIP to the victims

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 14, 2022, 12:02:05 PM

That's awful.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 14, 2022, 12:07:49 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 14, 2022, 10:32:32 AM

This is not good. Terrible, in fact. It's being reported that the shooter is a current student and former football player at Virginia.

(https://i.imgur.com/wIb7nYb.png)

The two other folks he killed were also current players. I guess they were on some kind of bus trip to Washington DC.

Just really profoundly terrible.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 14, 2022, 12:15:10 PM

I really thought he was going to be a very good player in Madison, and now, even more, I wish he'd stayed.

Wisconsin cancelled media availability today with this news. It's being taken very hard by his old mates.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 14, 2022, 01:50:32 PM

Life is weird and unexplainable at times.

We took the subway back from the airport last night.  My wife doesn't like it, said she wouldn't do it without me being there.  There often is a pretty weird person on the train car, as was the case last night.  The individual was annoying but not dangerous that I could sense.  Another white older fellow was stoned out of his mind, apparently headed home with luggage and his wife.  Maybe he was just an idiot, hard to tell, but something reeked of MJ.

The train was pretty full, nearly so anyway.  My wife's preferred driver is $60 one way, the train costs us 70 cents each.  And a walk.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 14, 2022, 03:29:47 PM

it's only money

and if the wife isn't happy, neither are you or the driver

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 14, 2022, 06:44:16 PM

Jay Leno seriously burned in garage fire after vehicle erupts in flames
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/jay-leno-seriously-burned-in-garage-fire-after-vehicle-erupts-in-flames/ar-AA146zeC

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 14, 2022, 06:55:46 PM

high octane fuel

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 14, 2022, 07:06:17 PM

Doesn't seem like a free baser

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 14, 2022, 07:37:18 PM

I work with a gal that likes to rearrange our workstation periodically, and she always asks me for input to which I reply "I'm the mover, you're the interior designer" which she generally likes.

Anyway this gal is difficult to flirt with because she is all prim and proper, and never wants to talk about anything but work. So this time when she was getting ready to rearrange things, I decided to switch gears and try to make her a little jealous. So when she asked me for my input on where I want things, I asked her to just make sure that she doesn't block my view of this other smoking hot babe that works there. Instead of getting jealous, she just keeled over and had a good belly laugh. I mean, she was just squealing like a little schoolgirl, no doubt at the very notion of me being able to land a date with the other smoking hot babe.

So that one may have backfired just a hair.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 14, 2022, 07:51:42 PM

so, she's sayin there's a chance?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 14, 2022, 08:49:47 PM

Me and a curvy blonde Mormon cowgirl in college that wears spandex to work everyday? Yeah, that's definitely happening. 

Now she did put the shortest piece of furniture that we have between me and the curvy blonde spandex girl though. So that was nice of her. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 15, 2022, 12:23:48 AM

ooh, mormon?  So she's all-the-way nuts?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2022, 06:30:43 AM

Once at work (I should finish that book) the Company decided we all had to have a work station review by some person who purportedly would modify such things as needed for more effectiveness.  She came by and asked about my situation and I noted that as I'm tall, nothing about my desk was appropriate.  (I didn't really have an issue.)  She looked flustered and said I should call buildings and services and get it fixed, somehow, and ran off.  It was hilarious, to me anyway.  She was not smokin' hot.

When I left, I had to have an 'exit interview' with some HR lady I didn't know at all.  I waited outside at the appointed time as she and some other female retiree went 20 minutes over laughing and having a grand time about something, then she started asking me all sorts of pretty personal things to which I answered "I don't know" mostly.  My exit interview lasted ten minutes, she couldn't get me to respond to her questions.  I sensed it was to assess whether I would sue the company, I don't know why else it would be mandated.  I already had signed a release saying I wouldn't.

It was a local cottage industry suing the company apparently, or so a lawyer friend told me.  Someone would get a year's salary, sue the company, and get that trebled.  One lawyer in particular had the inside poll getting these folks to sue and he knew the company would fold every time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 15, 2022, 06:54:18 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 15, 2022, 12:23:48 AM

ooh, mormon?  So she's all-the-way nuts?

You had to get past "woman" in order to make that determination? 
O0

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 15, 2022, 07:04:27 AM

Gotta be careful these days with stuff like that in the office. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 15, 2022, 07:39:09 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 15, 2022, 06:30:43 AM

When I left, I had to have an 'exit interview' with some HR lady I didn't know at all.  I waited outside at the appointed time as she and some other female retiree went 20 minutes over laughing and having a grand time about something, then she started asking me all sorts of pretty personal things to which I answered "I don't know" mostly.  My exit interview lasted ten minutes, she couldn't get me to respond to her questions.  I sensed it was to assess whether I would sue the company, I don't know why else it would be mandated.  I already had signed a release saying I wouldn't.

Sounds like more of a debriefing than an exit interview

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2022, 08:36:21 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 15, 2022, 07:04:27 AM

Gotta be careful these days with stuff like that in the office.

well, more careful now than back then
they're ALL crazy
they suck different air

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 15, 2022, 08:54:42 AM

Yeah, I wouldn't have made that joke right out of the gate. But when you work alongside someone for a while, you get a pretty good read on their sense of humor. I knew she'd be amused by the absurdity of the request, and she was. Plus they don't ever really talk to each other. I wouldn't have said it if they were buddies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2022, 09:06:08 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 15, 2022, 08:54:42 AM

Yeah, I wouldn't have made that joke right out of the gate. But when you work alongside someone for a while, you get a pretty good read on their sense of humor. I knew she'd be amused by the absurdity of the request, and she was. Plus they don't ever really talk to each other. I wouldn't have said it if they were buddies.

swimmin in dangerous water there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 15, 2022, 09:13:03 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 15, 2022, 08:54:42 AM

Yeah, I wouldn't have made that joke right out of the gate. But when you work alongside someone for a while, you get a pretty good read on their sense of humor. I knew she'd be amused by the absurdity of the request, and she was. Plus they don't ever really talk to each other. I wouldn't have said it if they were buddies.

As long as you stay buddies,things go south then katie barr the door

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 15, 2022, 09:18:43 AM

#METOO

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 15, 2022, 11:12:02 AM

Eh, it's just a practice gig. I'm not married to it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2022, 11:27:29 AM

https://youtu.be/l6PYi0hU7Ng

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 15, 2022, 11:28:02 AM

If you don't believe today's youth is headed in the wrong direction, consider:

We have a freshman linebacker who had the flu last weekend (and somehow cleared to play??) and after throwing up shortly before game time told the coach he was worried he wouldn't play well because he was sick.  Kelly told him MJ had one of his greatest performances of all time having the flu and throwing up before the game.  We all know that story, obviously.    

Kid told Kelly "That's great, coach.  Who's MJ?"  

We are not raising our kids right.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2022, 11:28:52 AM

who's MJ?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 15, 2022, 11:30:26 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 15, 2022, 11:28:52 AM

who's MJ?

Badger, get the ban-stick.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2022, 11:34:46 AM

couldn't hit a curveball

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 15, 2022, 11:41:54 AM

or a 5 iron

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2022, 11:49:19 AM

a "welch"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 15, 2022, 11:57:18 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 15, 2022, 11:30:26 AM

Badger, get the ban-stick. 

Nah. If he was gone, we'd only have one Husker posting.

Noah says you gotta have two of each, so that's that.





And why did that asshole feel the need to take two mosquitos?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 15, 2022, 11:58:42 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 15, 2022, 11:28:02 AM

If you don't believe today's youth is headed in the wrong direction, consider:

We have a freshman linebacker who had the flu last weekend (and somehow cleared to play??) and after throwing up shortly before game time told the coach he was worried he wouldn't play well because he was sick.  Kelly told him MJ had one of his greatest performances of all time having the flu and throwing up before the game.  We all know that story, obviously.   

Kid told Kelly "That's great, coach.  Who's MJ?" 

We are not raising our kids right. 

Me and Mrs. 847 did well, apparently.

Thankfully.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on November 15, 2022, 12:00:40 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 15, 2022, 11:28:52 AM

who's MJ?

Magic Johnson

😝

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 15, 2022, 12:01:16 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 15, 2022, 11:28:02 AM

If you don't believe today's youth is headed in the wrong direction, consider:

We have a freshman linebacker who had the flu last weekend (and somehow cleared to play??) and after throwing up shortly before game time told the coach he was worried he wouldn't play well because he was sick.  Kelly told him MJ had one of his greatest performances of all time having the flu and throwing up before the game.  We all know that story, obviously.   

Kid told Kelly "That's great, coach.  Who's MJ?" 

We are not raising our kids right. 

I didnt even know Mick Jagger played FB

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2022, 12:16:02 PM

(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/8e/0e/71/8e0e71d069aa8ccb89dd73339d644459.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 15, 2022, 12:25:02 PM

There ya go

Learn something new every day

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on November 15, 2022, 01:03:59 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 15, 2022, 11:28:52 AM

who's MJ?

I think he was in the prequel to that LeBron movie

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2022, 01:11:34 PM

are you referring to Bron-Bron?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 15, 2022, 01:25:15 PM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on November 15, 2022, 12:00:40 PM

Magic Johnson

😝

If you're my age, MJ might refer to Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, or Michael Jackson.  If the conversation is limited to the sports world, that rules one of them out.  Only one of those dropped 40 in a Finals game after having barfed and being noticeably sick.  

I expect kids to know these things.  Get off my lawn.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 15, 2022, 03:07:19 PM

Welp...

(https://i.imgur.com/SJSEW2p.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2022, 03:11:35 PM

I don't think that would be an Article 5 issue, I hope.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on November 15, 2022, 03:19:26 PM

Assuming they can determine it was not intentional, I think it would be Article 4, not 5

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 15, 2022, 03:19:31 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 15, 2022, 12:01:16 PM

I didnt even know Mick Jagger played FB

https://youtu.be/gGpaKu_0IUk

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 15, 2022, 03:22:19 PM

Quote from: ELA on November 15, 2022, 03:19:26 PM

Assuming they can determine it was not intentional, I think it would be Article 4, not 5

I'd say the same.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 15, 2022, 03:44:57 PM

https://www.wsj.com/articles/poland-russian-missile-strike-11668540716?st=kwa1rfvg7euayn4&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2022, 03:56:58 PM

stoopid Ruskies

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2022, 04:39:58 PM

Article 4 would come first, then potentially 5.

I foresee "they" will talk about it for a while, and lament it, and ask for an apology, etc.

Words.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2022, 04:47:02 PM

Koalas have fingerprints almost identical to ours | NOVA | PBS (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/koala-fingerprints/?fbclid=IwAR0PFbXGqdRtNiAjDyLgi8Xbqq5EjIaKyuFTa24L_c8LLkYFOBkshBS6Ebo)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2022, 04:48:46 PM

now that's "other news"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2022, 04:52:01 PM

Do Animals Have Fingerprints? » Science ABC (https://www.scienceabc.com/nature/animals/do-animals-have-fingerprints.html#:~:text=Short Answer%3A Yes%2C gorillas%2C,their survival%2C if not ours.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2022, 06:38:44 PM

headed to Buffalo Wild Wings for some MAC-action and hot wings

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2022, 06:44:31 PM

I tried the wings at the Korean place near us and they are THE BEST I've ever had by far.  They have Korean beer too, but no TVs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 15, 2022, 07:02:36 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 15, 2022, 04:47:02 PM

Koalas have fingerprints almost identical to ours | NOVA | PBS (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/koala-fingerprints/?fbclid=IwAR0PFbXGqdRtNiAjDyLgi8Xbqq5EjIaKyuFTa24L_c8LLkYFOBkshBS6Ebo)

Yeah, but they have 4 thumbs.

They'd probably be really good at video games...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 15, 2022, 07:17:41 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 15, 2022, 11:12:02 AM

Eh, it's just a practice gig. I'm not married to it.

It's actually kind of cool to have a job that you don't care about losing, because you get to try things that you normally wouldn't. Like for example the head my department was some guy that lives and works in a different city entirely. The first time I ever talked to him was when he conducted my performance review. Not only was it a scathing review, but it didn't even make any sense. I thought I must have gotten someone else's, because he literally could have printed out a generic bad review from the internet and it would have been more accurate. 

So the next day I found out that he wrote up the review while he was still butt hurt over some incident that took place the previous Friday. Well I had taken that day off, so I wasn't even working. Yet not only was I getting blamed for it, but my entire performance review was centered around it. 

Now I would normally just take something like that lying down. Like Cincydawg says, "keep your head down, stay busy, and try not to make any waves." But it's just a practice job, so I reported his ass and ran it up the corporate ladder, just to see what would happen. He's pretty high up, so I figured they'd let me go in order to protect him. Instead, they shuffled the deck so that I would have all subsequent performance reviews done by a manager that lives and works here. They also implemented a policy that prevents any employee from having their performance reviewed by a manager that lives and works in a different city, and the manager that did it got his performance review privileges revoked. 

Of course it wasn't fun. It was like two weeks of nonstop corporate drama in order to get it resolved. I wouldn't want to go through anything like that again unless there was no other choice. But it was interesting to see what would happen nonetheless. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 15, 2022, 09:55:50 PM

What's a practice job?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 16, 2022, 06:34:12 AM

It's a job that you're practicing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 16, 2022, 07:34:42 AM

Good news. Unintentional.

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/poland-ukraine-russia-missile

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 16, 2022, 07:41:26 AM

Dog nose prints are as unique as human finger prints and can be used to identify them. Provided by FactRetriever.com

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 16, 2022, 08:23:40 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 15, 2022, 09:55:50 PM

What's a practice job?

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/315609705_1823391078041519_7181280466043856815_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Z2hj1sakpyYAX_NOfRu&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAhbgr9oOB_-yLAYDfLOHIBl7Ccch8lS_nQytsu7Rlojg&oe=637A9D98)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 16, 2022, 08:57:41 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 15, 2022, 06:38:44 PM

headed to Buffalo Wild Wings for some MAC-action and hot wings

Friend & his wife are headed to Buffalo friday for the real ones and the Browns Game .They might be getting pounded with the white stuff that is still on the ground here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 16, 2022, 09:03:06 AM

I might walk down to the local pub tonight for more wings - Wednesday

light snow showers here, not a pounding

how does the stuff on the ground pound you?  Slip & fall?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 16, 2022, 09:28:45 AM

When the gales of November turn freezing.The Great Lakes does funny things with the weather - plays with it mostly

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2022, 09:29:35 AM

Watch a Water Well Being Drilled - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I4yrhaISQM)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2022, 09:36:45 AM

NASA’s Artemis 1 mission launches successfully, on the way to the moon (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/16/watch-live-nasa-launches-artemis-1-moon-mission.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on November 16, 2022, 09:44:37 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 15, 2022, 07:17:41 PM

It's actually kind of cool to have a job that you don't care about losing, because you get to try things that you normally wouldn't. 

It is nice. I can retire anytime, except my wife isn't ready to give up her job yet.  So when my company told me I would need to come into the office once or twice a week, instead of the once a month I had been doing, I just turned in my resignation.  Called the next day from my boss's boss and ask what they needed to do. I said keep me remote and I'm not going anywhere. 

It really is nice when the company has no power. Even with that I work more hours than I probably should (at least the wife complains when I have put in a 10 hour day).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 16, 2022, 10:48:38 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on November 16, 2022, 09:44:37 AM

It is nice. I can retire anytime, except my wife isn't ready to give up her job yet.  So when my company told me I would need to come into the office once or twice a week, instead of the once a month I had been doing, I just turned in my resignation.  Called the next day from my boss's boss and ask what they needed to do. I said keep me remote and I'm not going anywhere.

It really is nice when the company has no power. Even with that I work more hours than I probably should (at least the wife complains when I have put in a 10 hour day).

everybody is replaceable

I give a lot of credit to your company for being not stupid

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 16, 2022, 10:51:59 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 16, 2022, 09:28:45 AM

When the gales of November turn freezing.The Great Lakes does funny things with the weather - plays with it mostly

The Buffalo Bills and Cleveland Browns game could be canceled? Everyone in Western New York knows that we are about to get hit with a really big first snowstorm that will begin on Thursday and end sometime on Sunday. What does that mean for the Buffalo Bills game? It has been done before.

Meteorologist Kevin O'Neil pointed out that there is enough lake effect snow coming that the National Football League WOULD consider moving the football game. O'Neil suggests moving the game to Monday could be a possibility, but also points out that the Bills are playing on Thursday. Here is what one person suggested on Twitter:

Would make the most sense to move to Detroit...they are on the road and the Bills play there on Thanksgiving which means they could just stay there and practice ahead of the game next Thursday.

The last time that the National Football League moved a Buffalo game to Detroit was when the New York Jets were coming to visit Highmark Stadium in 2014. The weather was too much of a factor so, the game was moved to Ford Field.

Maybe the NFL doesn't move the game. After all, Buffalonians are always there with a shovel and I am sure would be more than willing to shovel out Highmark Stadium in order to get fans inside, at the very least. Especially...for our Buffalo Bills.

If the game were to happen in Orchard Park on Sunday, it would be the first game that the weather would be a major factor. Nothing Western New Yorkers are not used to, though. Here are some other suggestions that others had on social media last night:



Read More: Buffalo Bills Game On Sunday Could Be Cancelled? | https://wyrk.com/buffalo-bills-game-cancelled/?fbclid=IwAR1DNN20KGKBplPVr8XM_4E76hMUueIxtzt7t3lTyC6rHJnMpOVUn-G0QU4&utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 16, 2022, 11:11:58 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 15, 2022, 09:55:50 PM

What's a practice job?

Like a practice girl. You're not that into her, but you date her anyway just because she's there, and she gives you a chance to work on your dating skills in a situation where you aren't going to be all that sad if you botch the whole deal. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on November 16, 2022, 11:16:33 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 16, 2022, 11:11:58 AM

Like a practice girl. You're not that into her, but you date her anyway just because she's there, and she gives you a chance to work on your dating skills in a situation where you aren't going to be all that sad if you botch the whole deal.

I dig it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 16, 2022, 11:40:08 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 16, 2022, 11:11:58 AM

Like a practice girl. You're not that into her, but you date her anyway just because she's there, and she gives you a chance to work on your dating skills in a situation where you aren't going to be all that sad if you botch the whole deal.

This makes me sad because I just now realized in my younger days I'm pretty sure I was a practice guy.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 16, 2022, 12:16:03 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 16, 2022, 11:40:08 AM

This makes me sad because I just now realized in my younger days I'm pretty sure I was a practice guy. 

I didnt even make the team

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2022, 12:18:46 PM

Why U.S. rail travel is so expensive (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/16/why-us-rail-travel-is-so-expensive.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 16, 2022, 12:23:52 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 16, 2022, 12:18:46 PM

Why U.S. rail travel is so expensive (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/16/why-us-rail-travel-is-so-expensive.html)

It really doesnt say why

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 16, 2022, 12:32:52 PM

one factor is barge traffic on the mississippi and missouri rivers, probably more

when barges can't run, more rail freight

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 16, 2022, 12:39:54 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 16, 2022, 10:51:59 AM

The Buffalo Bills and Cleveland Browns game could be canceled? Everyone in Western New York knows that we are about to get hit with a really big first snowstorm that will begin on Thursday and end sometime on Sunday. What does that mean for the Buffalo Bills game? It has been done before.

The Bills will have home field because they are playing the Browns not because of the conditions.It wouldn't favor them as we frolic in much the same stuff only they get it when the winds out of the west and we get when it comes out of the north.But since the lake is longer east to west than north to south they pick up more precipitation over water

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 16, 2022, 12:41:39 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 16, 2022, 11:40:08 AM

This makes me sad because I just now realized in my younger days I'm pretty sure I was a practice guy. 

Guess I was on the Taxi Squad

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 16, 2022, 01:12:01 PM

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fhs_oWEXgAIL7PP?format=jpg&name=small)

I haven't even heard of half of this crap. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 16, 2022, 01:13:01 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 16, 2022, 11:40:08 AM

This makes me sad because I just now realized in my younger days I'm pretty sure I was a practice guy. 

Well, at least you were that. O0

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 16, 2022, 01:14:32 PM

bs clickbait

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 16, 2022, 01:22:39 PM

Sky line chili may have half of cinci the rest of the state no way-no how 50%. Maybe 1/2 of 1%.Really who makes that bullshit up?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: jgvol on November 16, 2022, 01:37:02 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 16, 2022, 01:12:01 PM

[img width=500 height=280.994]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fhs_oWEXgAIL7PP?format=jpg&name=small[/img]

I haven't even heard of half of this crap.

Me neither.  But was up in Chicago 3 years ago and had Culver's.  Not bad for fast food.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 16, 2022, 01:44:45 PM

Quote from: jgvol on November 16, 2022, 01:37:02 PM

Me neither.  But was up in Chicago 3 years ago and had Culver's.  Not bad for fast food.

If you go back, go to Portillo's. It's really good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2022, 01:44:51 PM

Project | The Stitch (thestitchatl.com) (https://thestitchatl.com/project)

Neat concept, probably won't happen in my lifetime ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 16, 2022, 01:49:38 PM

Culvers should be split with Kwik Trip for Wisconsin.

Switch Pancheros for Maid-Rite in Iowa and you might have something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 16, 2022, 01:58:09 PM

Caseys isn't fast food

skyline is fast food?

do they have a drive thru?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2022, 02:05:31 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 16, 2022, 01:58:09 PM

Caseys isn't fast food

skyline is fast food?

do they have a drive thru?

They do, but they also have table service.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 16, 2022, 02:09:08 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 16, 2022, 10:51:59 AM

The Buffalo Bills and Cleveland Browns game could be canceled? Everyone in Western New York knows that we are about to get hit with a really big first snowstorm that will begin on Thursday and end sometime on Sunday. What does that mean for the Buffalo Bills game? It has been done before.

My FIL spent many a late fall Saturday in his youth shoveling out Rich Stadium in Orchard Park.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 16, 2022, 02:27:15 PM

They tried that BS back in '15/'16  with literally 5 ft of snow.A-holes were trying to get anyone who sling a shovel full to clean the venue for millionaires.risk a heart attack for coffee and a hotdog - hey thanx NFL you !@&^*%#$ .There was a state of emergancy and they're worried about their game - that league can't fold soon enough

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2022, 02:31:10 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/yLJ3IGj.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 16, 2022, 02:46:04 PM

https://twitter.com/flasportsbuzz/status/1592924900117086209?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1592924900117086209%7Ctwgr%5Efc40e0100a6717a2be106dc61c337fd680d6c536%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fathlonsports.com%2Fcollege-football%2Fmario-cristobal-has-blunt-message-for-parents-of-miami-players

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 16, 2022, 02:51:06 PM

Miami is a mess right now. Cristobal probably wishing he never left Oregon lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 16, 2022, 03:27:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 16, 2022, 02:31:10 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/yLJ3IGj.png)

word of the day is c*unt, as in susie dent is a c*unt.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on November 16, 2022, 04:29:55 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 16, 2022, 01:13:01 PM

Well, at least you were that. O0

Pretty sure I had a couple of relationships where I was the practice guy.  That's Ok, because she was the practice girl too.  Mutually beneficial.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 16, 2022, 04:48:31 PM

workin on those night moves

in the back seat of my 60 Chevy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 16, 2022, 06:44:14 PM

probably the dumbest/greatest tweet ever? 

https://twitter.com/rydunleavy/status/645400473097400320?s=20&t=f_DcesdZUdHn8HO9iCAirA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SFBadger96 on November 16, 2022, 07:31:19 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 16, 2022, 01:12:01 PM

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fhs_oWEXgAIL7PP?format=jpg&name=small)

I haven't even heard of half of this crap.

I live in that forest green section and I ain't never heard of sweetgreen, but I have an (always busy) In-N-Out about a mile away.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 16, 2022, 09:28:54 PM

https://twitter.com/TDISportsClips/status/1592621034838298627?t=8iWxMYQcOGusI62nngFjRg&s=19

On this day 8 years ago was the infamous appearance of Dilly Bar Dan on the sidelines. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2022, 03:40:55 AM

Quote from: SFBadger96 on November 16, 2022, 07:31:19 PM

I live in that forest green section and I ain't never heard of sweetgreen, but I have an (always busy) In-N-Out about a mile away.

There is a Sweetgreen in walking distance of me.  Fancy salads basically, a bit pricey for me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2022, 04:17:59 AM

NASA took its next giant leap to the moon — what comes next? | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/technology/3738707-nasa-took-its-next-giant-leap-to-the-moon-what-comes-next/)

I predict delays and cost overruns ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2022, 06:41:27 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 17, 2022, 04:17:59 AM

NASA took its next giant leap to the moon — what comes next? | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/technology/3738707-nasa-took-its-next-giant-leap-to-the-moon-what-comes-next/)

I predict delays and cost overruns ...

No shit, eh?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 17, 2022, 08:24:27 AM

ROI???

forget about it

government funding

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 17, 2022, 09:25:36 AM

The ROI on the Apollo program wasn't clear until many, many years later.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 17, 2022, 09:44:16 AM

how bad was it, clearly?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 17, 2022, 11:08:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 16, 2022, 02:31:10 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/yLJ3IGj.png)

word of the day on my dictionary app is "aegrotat"

--an unclassified degree granted a university student who has fulfilled all requirements for graduation but was prevented by illness from attending the final examinations.  

Do we really need a word that means that?  This convinces me there is probably a word for everything.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on November 17, 2022, 11:38:28 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 17, 2022, 11:08:14 AM

word of the day on my dictionary app is "aegrotat"

--an unclassified degree granted a university student who has fulfilled all requirements for graduation but was prevented by illness from attending the final examinations. 

Do we really need a word that means that?  This convinces me there is probably a word for everything. 

Of course we do.  Otherwise you would have to explain to everyone what your degree is.  Now you can say it with just one word...before explaining to everyone what that word means

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2022, 01:16:39 PM

Largest dam demolition plan in history clears last federal regulatory hurdle | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/3740092-largest-dam-demolition-plan-in-history-clears-last-federal-regulatory-hurdle/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2022, 01:42:57 PM

It would be nice to know the purpose of the dams in the first place.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2022, 01:49:09 PM

Iron Gate Dam is an earthfill hydroelectric dam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroelectric_dam) on the Klamath River (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klamath_River) in northern California (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California), outside Hornbrook, California (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornbrook,_California), opened in 1964. The dam blocks the Klamath River to create the Iron Gate Lake Reservoir. It is the lowermost of a series of power dams on the river, the Klamath River Hydroelectric Project (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klamath_River_Hydroelectric_Project), operated by PacifiCorp (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PacifiCorp). It also poses the first barrier to migrating salmon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salmon) in the Klamath. The Iron Gate Fish Hatchery was placed just after the dam, hatching salmon and steelhead that are released back into the river.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Gate_Dam_(California)#cite_note-1) The Iron Gate Dam (National ID CN 001223)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Gate_Dam_(California)#cite_note-2) along with the John C. Boyle Dam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Boyle_Dam) are two of four on the Klamath River that would be removed under the Klamath Economic Restoration Act.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Gate_Dam_(California)#cite_note-3) As of February 2016, the states of Oregon and California, the dam owners, federal regulators and other parties reached an agreement to remove all four dams by the year 2020, pending approval by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Energy_Regulatory_Commission).[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Gate_Dam_(California)#cite_note-4) As of February 25, 2022, the FERC released their final Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) on the dam's removal. The Iron Gate Dam is expected to be removed sometime in 2023 or 2024.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Gate_Dam_(California)#cite_note-5) A movement to Un-Dam the Klamath (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Un-Dam_the_Klamath) has been ongoing for 20 years to remove the dams.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Gate_Dam_(California)#cite_note-:3-6)[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Gate_Dam_(California)#cite_note-:2-7)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on November 17, 2022, 09:36:23 PM

Elon broke Twitter way quicker than I expected.  Even the FTX guys are surprised what a bad investment he made

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 17, 2022, 09:59:31 PM

Quote from: ELA on November 17, 2022, 09:36:23 PM

Elon broke Twitter way quicker than I expected.  Even the FTX guys are surprised what a bad investment he made

stay tuned for further developments

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 17, 2022, 10:15:19 PM

twitter needed breaking.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 18, 2022, 07:05:47 AM

Quote from: MarqHusker on November 17, 2022, 10:15:19 PM

twitter needed breaking.

Sure. But there were probably ways to break it without becoming a sideshow in a month. The man does like being a side show. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 18, 2022, 07:35:24 AM

I don't think he bought Twitter as any investment in any real sense.  I do find it interesting how he went from something of a liberal hero for some to now being an ultra con enemy.  (I view him as neither.)

My suspicion is Twitter was rife with folks who did no real work.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 18, 2022, 08:30:23 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/YkiDVqd.png)

Lists ... made up by someone somewhere, probably going to change in a week anyway.  At least it includes some numbers.  Bo Nix is lighting it up statistically... so is Maye.  If UNC could beat CLemson?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 18, 2022, 08:32:54 AM

Hooker. Peyton's revenge.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 18, 2022, 08:34:42 AM

His challenge is not having a CG in which to play.  The QB who excels in any CG that week will be top of mind for voters.

I don't think many of us here care either way really.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 18, 2022, 08:39:20 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 18, 2022, 07:05:47 AM

Sure. But there were probably ways to break it without becoming a sideshow in a month. The man does like being a side show.

And I'm sure there was a way to break twitter without directly costing him $43 billion and getting margin called on his Tesla holdings.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 18, 2022, 08:41:31 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on November 18, 2022, 08:39:20 AM

And I'm sure there was a way to break twitter without directly costing him $43 billion and getting margin called on his Tesla holdings.

He might get margin called on his Tesla stock?  Is he short?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2022, 08:43:47 AM

he doesn't appear very tall from the pictures

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 18, 2022, 09:15:30 AM

Can you share more of your stock tips fearless?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2022, 09:26:48 AM

buy low
sell high

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 18, 2022, 10:19:53 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/TzpIzZ8.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 18, 2022, 10:27:14 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 18, 2022, 09:26:48 AM

buy low
sell high

Damn you can now start sponsoring 'Sker players thru NIL

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 18, 2022, 12:51:17 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/szdP1z5.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 18, 2022, 01:02:21 PM

Sorta like this:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uErKI0zWgjg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uErKI0zWgjg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 18, 2022, 01:08:41 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/B3TTheu.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2022, 03:02:27 PM

get yerself some of this when you go to Cincy for some Chili

https://youtu.be/PhcH96moZms

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2022, 03:04:40 PM

or LaRosa's Pizzeria

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 18, 2022, 03:31:48 PM

Very nice gesture here.

(https://i.imgur.com/2vNJqUV.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 18, 2022, 04:37:17 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 18, 2022, 03:04:40 PM

or LaRosa's Pizzeria

I never understood why folks liked their pizza.  Some of their other stuff was "OK".  One near us had a spaghetti special for kids for 99 cants with a paying adult, I hit that up pretty often.

I have a pot of chili going right now.  My wife was not sanguine about that option, but she didn't want to fix dinner herself.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2022, 04:43:44 PM

It's chilly enuff here for a batch of Chili, but I've got brats from last Saturday's tailgate....

takin them to a Viking/Cowboy party Sunday afternoon

Beef Polska Kielbasa with homemade kraut tonight and fried taters

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 18, 2022, 05:02:42 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 18, 2022, 04:37:17 PM

I have a pot of chili going right now.  My wife was not sanguine about that option, but she didn't want to fix dinner herself.

Hope you remembered the Basmati Rice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 18, 2022, 05:16:31 PM

I fix the rice separately of course, and later.  Sometimes my wife heats up a tortilla and makes a kind of burrito.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 18, 2022, 06:09:08 PM

I'll never understand sauerkraut....or any fermented foods.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2022, 06:56:22 PM

what's to understand

it's yummy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2022, 09:36:19 PM

With routine November trips to Columbus and Ann Arbor for The Game (which it will likely take once again next weekend), the ESPN pregame show frequently finds itself filming on location in some pretty chilly spots.

But Saturday’s trip to Bozeman, Montana, for the appropriately named “Brawl of the Wild” between Montana State and bitter rival Montana will be on an entirely different level.

In what is already being heralded as the coldest College GameDay ever, temperatures could be in the single digits when the show begins at 9 a.m. ET. The low in Bozeman on Saturday is one degree Fahrenheit, which is actually an improvement from Friday’s low of nine below zero.

A logistics spokesperson for ESPN told Matt Brown of the Extra Points newsletter that some of the equipment used to prepare the set even froze on Friday.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 19, 2022, 07:21:27 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 18, 2022, 06:56:22 PM

what's to understand

it's yummy

Absolutely. 

I'm making some kimchee today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 19, 2022, 08:30:28 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 18, 2022, 06:09:08 PM

I'll never understand sauerkraut....or any fermented foods. 

If one classifies a drink as a kind of food ....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 19, 2022, 08:35:24 AM

I love sauerbraten.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 19, 2022, 08:52:16 AM

The amazing thing to me is how many of these buildings are "student housing" ....

(https://i.imgur.com/xZFUXJB.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 19, 2022, 08:52:53 AM

The KFC near us has a side dish of mac and cheese with kimchi and bacon bits, it's awesome.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 19, 2022, 09:00:37 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 19, 2022, 07:21:27 AM

I'm making some kimchee today.

Grab the bucket  (https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Smilies/pukeface.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 19, 2022, 09:04:09 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 18, 2022, 09:36:19 PM

The ESPN pregame show frequently finds itself filming on location in some pretty chilly spots.But Saturday’s trip to Bozeman, Montana, for the appropriately named “Brawl of the Wild” between Montana State and bitter rival Montana will be on an entirely different level.

In what is already being heralded as the coldest College GameDay ever, temperatures could be in the single digits when the show begins at 9 a.m. ET. The low in Bozeman on Saturday is one degree Fahrenheit

I hope Gary Danielson that guzzler gets to call this Game

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 19, 2022, 09:18:19 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 19, 2022, 08:52:53 AM

The KFC near us has a side dish of mac and cheese with kimchi and bacon bits, it's awesome.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/316135677_5573516156077545_6698886235266211055_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=YN8hfPgS464AX_g_4H-&_nc_oc=AQmBz7dpO03zmzES2xeWzlvZ6xCUg8JrqlRye013Aka9cTV60_atB2lWuY07s3Al3Rw&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfC3F5q7Hbmh9SYNfytMXZDyohfwZKo4rB2hw30wklRQ3g&oe=637E87EF)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 19, 2022, 09:29:16 AM

"KFC" =

Mukja Korean Fried Chicken - Chicken Restaurant in Atlanta, GA (mukjaatl.com) (https://www.mukjaatl.com/)

They have the best wings I've ever had, by far.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 19, 2022, 09:39:38 AM

you forgot to lead with the M

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 19, 2022, 09:45:49 AM

I happened to look at some "expert predictions" over the season and notice, as usual, their performance "ATS" is pretty unremarkable, about what a random duck would manage.  These are the 'experts' of course who get paid to write these things.

I'd guess anyone who could consistently beat the line keeps that secret and doesn't write, he just bets.  Some of the lines look enticing, like TCU at Baylor, but I notice often those slim lines are for a reason.  Duh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 20, 2022, 08:57:22 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/nSg7dgn.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 20, 2022, 08:58:44 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on November 18, 2022, 08:39:20 AM

And I'm sure there was a way to break twitter without directly costing him $43 billion and getting margin called on his Tesla holdings.

‘Twitter Is Dead,’ 300 Million People Post On Twitter | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/twitter-is-dead-300-million-people-post-on-twitter?utm_source=The Babylon Bee)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 20, 2022, 09:00:16 AM

oh well

the world will go on and possibly for the better

now, can someone PLEASE kill Facebook!?!?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 20, 2022, 09:15:39 AM

Paint it Maize and Blue the good guys will take care of the rest

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 20, 2022, 09:30:54 AM

I enjoy FB most of the time.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: HK_Vol on November 21, 2022, 08:54:03 AM

https://twitter.com/SethDillon/status/1594522689573634048

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 21, 2022, 09:40:37 AM

great 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 21, 2022, 10:13:44 AM

Quote from: HK_Vol on November 21, 2022, 08:54:03 AM

https://twitter.com/SethDillon/status/1594522689573634048

Man, our politics are deeply weird.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 21, 2022, 10:31:07 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 21, 2022, 10:13:44 AM

Man, our politics are deeply weird.

Heh, you should check out pol in Europe, or France .....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 21, 2022, 10:42:19 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 21, 2022, 10:31:07 AM

Heh, you should check out pol in Europe, or France .....

I barely have the stomach for the kind that happen around me. If I go across the pond, it’s gonna be to eat fancy food and look at pretty places, thank you very much.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 21, 2022, 11:59:15 AM

Fancy doesn't equal good over there. I find the local joints have the best food.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 21, 2022, 12:08:49 PM

Fancy in France has always meant superb food in my experience, but not very fancy usually means very very good food also.

The best meals I've ever had were in fancy ($$$) places.  I wish we could get some of the more basic kind of bistros around here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 21, 2022, 12:39:23 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 21, 2022, 11:59:15 AM

Fancy doesn't equal good over there. I find the local joints have the best food.

I’m using fancy loosely. It’ll shock you, but real fancy isn’t really my scene.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 21, 2022, 10:17:58 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 20, 2022, 09:00:16 AM

oh well

the world will go on and possibly for the better

now, can someone PLEASE kill Facebook!?!?

Facebook is where old fogies post their nostalgic musings now.  No one under 30 uses it.  Hence the twitter/instagram/tiiktok

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 21, 2022, 10:35:24 PM

and the world would be just fine w/o it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 22, 2022, 10:10:27 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 21, 2022, 10:17:58 PM

Facebook is where old fogies post their nostalgic musings now.  No one under 30 uses it.  Hence the twitter/instagram/tiiktok

There are some studies showing a link between TikTok and neurological problems in adolescents.  Something about it is potentially really playing hell with the way kids' brains are wired.  Nothing really ground-breaking, of course.  It's just an extension of other video-related technology that's been caught affecting brains for a long while now.  Older people who use it are not so affected.  Mainly catching issues in still-developing brains (I'd have always been immune...my brain never developed).  

Lately it moved from something I read/heard about to something we're seeing personally.  My wife has been seeing an upswing in cases that may be related to this and has been doing a lot of referrals to neurology for it.  My niece has developed a bizarre neurological condition that I can't remember the name of but it's similar to Tourette Syndrome.  After trying several things that didn't help, her neurologist put her on marijuana gummies and greatly helps with the symptoms for a few hours.  

Obviously correlation does not equal causation.  That girl does love her some TikTok though.

She gives a whole new meaning to the 'tic' part of tiktok

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 22, 2022, 10:18:09 AM

TikTok needs to go back to China. GTFO of the US.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 22, 2022, 10:34:29 AM

The orange man tried to ban it but got no support

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 22, 2022, 12:25:51 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 22, 2022, 10:34:29 AM

The orange man tried to ban it but got no support

So you're FOR the gov't banning our speech? 
.
The idea of banning any website or platform is hilarious.  The people would have a work-around the very next day and/or all flock to a different platform officially produced by a different country, but being used as a shell for China and/or the people creating their own platform.
.
"Shut it down" is an antiquated idea that is a waste of time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on November 22, 2022, 12:31:03 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 21, 2022, 10:17:58 PM

Facebook is where old fogies post their nostalgic musings now.  No one under 30 uses it.  Hence the twitter/instagram/tiiktok

For a while now I’ve kept my own notes on how far back Facebook has fallen in terms of youth engagement. My 57-year old pastor was telling us the other day how his favorite facebook group is called “Growing Up Gen X” where his peers relive collective childhood memories from the 70s/80s.

Meanwhile his three teenagers are all on TikTok. It was only 12 or 13 years ago when I was in college and every last student in my dorms spent 3 or 4 hours a day on Facebook. Logging in now reminds me of going to a KMart I shopped at, seemingly out of pity, in 2018. It was still there to be shopped at but it was too late hide its obvious decline and impending irrelevance.

(https://i.imgur.com/JNaeY2f.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 22, 2022, 12:43:24 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 22, 2022, 12:25:51 PM

So you're FOR the gov't banning our speech?
.
The idea of banning any website or platform is hilarious.  The people would have a work-around the very next day and/or all flock to a different platform officially produced by a different country, but being used as a shell for China and/or the people creating their own platform.
.
"Shut it down" is an antiquated idea that is a waste of time.

youre way off on this

the banning is not of free speech but foreign espionage

before you run your mouth you should make an effort to learn the facts


https://www.axios.com/2022/11/01/interview-fcc-commissioner-says-government-should-ban-tiktok

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 22, 2022, 01:24:51 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 22, 2022, 12:43:24 PM

before you run your mouth you should make an effort to learn the facts

For you, of all people, to type this........is.......funny (trying to be polite here).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 22, 2022, 01:39:10 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 22, 2022, 01:24:51 PM

For you, of all people, to type this........is.......funny (trying to be polite here).

thats right personal attack when you are on the losing end of a debate

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 22, 2022, 05:52:01 PM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on November 22, 2022, 12:31:03 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/JNaeY2f.jpg)

never heard of a veggie loaf before
I'm glad.
I hope it never really happened

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 23, 2022, 12:12:45 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 22, 2022, 01:39:10 PM

thats right personal attack when you are on the losing end of a debate

Everyone knows what tictok is.  You're not making a strong point, you're making a "duh" point.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 23, 2022, 12:16:52 AM

Oh, and everybody move to GA and vote for Herschel.
.
His last 2 campaign runoff speeches have turned into a 10-minute tangent on a late-night vampire movie and the ins and outs of a dog on a commercial not actually belonging to the actor in said commercial.
.
He is not cognitively well.  But he should be a US senator because of ideology.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 23, 2022, 01:14:52 AM

/Rolls eyes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 23, 2022, 07:36:21 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 23, 2022, 01:14:52 AM

/Rolls eyes

No shit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 23, 2022, 07:47:07 AM

I'm not moving to Georgia

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 23, 2022, 10:22:29 AM

I moved away in 1975 and moved back in 2018.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 23, 2022, 10:45:00 AM

you wasted all that time in Cincy eating noodles and shoveling snow?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 23, 2022, 10:45:58 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 23, 2022, 01:14:52 AM

/Rolls eyes

I really wish you guys could take your partisan glasses off for 5 minutes. 
.
This guy could be one of the 100 people representing one of the 50 states of our country.  I don't care who hand-picked him to run.  I don't care which party he's in. 
He is not fit to serve in office.  Period. 
.
And when I mention it, all I get is an eyeroll. 
The rural people of Georgia are voting for him for 3 reasons:
1 - he was the best RB ever at UGA
2 - he professes god as being important
3 - he's a republican
.
#1 is obviously not a good reason to vote for anybody.  #3 is what it is and can't be helped (as evidenced by you guys).  But #2 is an obvious lie.  I've lived a far more pious life that he has, despite being an ardent atheist.  I don't need a god to live morally, yet he needs one and still fails. 
.
This is all a sick joke.  You want to know how empires fall?  Goofy bastards like this get elected into office. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 23, 2022, 10:54:29 AM

Some folks think Joe Biden is not fit to serve in office.

that's fine, same as some folks thoughts on Herschel

nothing to get wound up about

it's an election, the number of votes tell the tale

as has been stated, many times, some folks vote against another politician, not so much for a guy like Herschel

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 23, 2022, 11:09:16 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/tuCTKLY.png)

Pretty sure you know little to nothing about BaB's politics (or mine or anyone else's), but that wasn't the point. 

The eye roll was posted because you just had to bring this up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 23, 2022, 11:32:08 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 22, 2022, 05:52:01 PM

never heard of a veggie loaf before
I'm glad.
I hope it never really happened

It happened, I saw stuff like that at church pot luck socials all the time in the 70s/early 80s.

Also, really gross looking jello molds.  I'm happy this trend died off, as well...

(https://i.imgur.com/x9aYMcW.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 23, 2022, 11:37:51 AM

Howdy, my friend.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 23, 2022, 12:34:13 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 23, 2022, 12:16:52 AM

.He is not cognitively well.  But he should be a US senator because of ideology. 

Well then you can't be thrilled with Brandon as sitting President

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 23, 2022, 10:45:58 AM

.
This is all a sick joke.  You want to know how empires fall?  Goofy bastards like this get elected into office. 

See above

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 23, 2022, 12:36:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 23, 2022, 11:09:16 AM

[img width=499.977 height=88.9931]https://i.imgur.com/tuCTKLY.png[/img]

Pretty sure you know little to nothing about BaB's politics (or mine or anyone else's), but that wasn't the point.

The eye roll was posted because you just had to bring this up.

You're right.  Let's talk jell-o molds.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 23, 2022, 12:40:00 PM

Better than politics.

I'd rather we stay out of that sandbox moving forward.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 23, 2022, 12:47:31 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 23, 2022, 10:45:58 AM

I really wish you guys could take your partisan glasses off for 5 minutes. 

You first. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 23, 2022, 12:52:14 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 23, 2022, 12:16:52 AM

Oh, and everybody move to GA and vote for Herschel.
.
His last 2 campaign runoff speeches have turned into a 10-minute tangent on a late-night vampire movie and the ins and outs of a dog on a commercial not actually belonging to the actor in said commercial.
.
He is not cognitively well.  But he should be a US senator because of ideology. 

dude 100000% has serious CTE after a long pro football career which was followed by an MMA career. 

has nothing to do with ideology. more like idolatry. dude is probably the greatest athlete ever in the history of the state of Georgia. he's worshipped there. people vote for people they like or want to have a beer with. he's beloved in the state of Georgia = he's going to get votes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 23, 2022, 12:53:43 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 23, 2022, 12:16:52 AM

He is not cognitively well.  But he should be a US senator because of ideology. 

oh and btw....speaking of not cognitively well...have you seen our fkn PRESIDENT. That is FAR more concerning to me and should be to everyone than a potential senator to be from Georgia.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 23, 2022, 01:59:35 PM

Cognitive disfunction?


I will just leave this here…..


Fettterman     (Mic drop)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 23, 2022, 02:13:25 PM

Who's Fetterman? Think there was a fort named for him along the Bozeman/Oregon Trails or in the northern territories before they were states

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 23, 2022, 02:13:58 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 23, 2022, 01:59:35 PM

Cognitive disfunction?


I will just leave this here…..


Fettterman    (Mic drop)

Yep. Around half of voters in both PA and GA voted for a candidate with serious cognitive disfunction. 

Republicans in GA and Democrats in PA did it because they made a rational decision that they'd rather advance their ideological interests with a complete doofus in the Senate than vote for someone who seems competent but is ideologically unacceptable. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 23, 2022, 02:19:08 PM

Not one post saying that I'm wrong, just a lot of "yeah, but" posts about Biden.

I rest my case.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 23, 2022, 02:20:30 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 23, 2022, 12:47:31 PM

You first.

I brought this up on the board the moment he was a nominee and strongly suggested (begged) that the Rs promote someone else.  It has nothing to do with party affiliation. 

AND I'M NOT A MEMBER OF EITHER PARTY!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 23, 2022, 02:32:04 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 23, 2022, 02:19:08 PM

Not one post saying that I'm wrong, just a lot of "yeah, but" posts about Biden.

I rest drank my case.

FIFY,check the last page you skip over a lot things for such a stickler for facts

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 23, 2022, 02:34:05 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/RCZBaqT.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 23, 2022, 02:39:12 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 23, 2022, 12:36:07 PM

You're right.  Let's talk jell-o molds.

I'd rather talk jello molds than talk politics.

But I'd rather talk politics than eat jello molds.

A complex world, we live in.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 23, 2022, 02:48:24 PM

seems rather straight forward to me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 23, 2022, 03:15:15 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 23, 2022, 02:20:30 PM

I brought this up on the board the moment he was a nominee and strongly suggested (begged) that the Rs promote someone else.  It has nothing to do with party affiliation. 

AND I'M NOT A MEMBER OF EITHER PARTY!

Only one person on this board lives in Georgia, and I don't think he executes his constitutional right to vote.

You are barking up the wrong tree.

Maybe go do Pennsyltucky, or whatever it's called. I don't recall you addressing that... at all.

As for the bold part... same here.

I'm a constitutional conservative.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 23, 2022, 09:49:27 PM

Charted: Healthcare Spending and Life Expectancy, by Country

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/healthcare-spending-versus-life-expectancy-by-country/ (https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/healthcare-spending-versus-life-expectancy-by-country/)

(https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Healthcare-expenditure-per-capita-vs-life-expectancy-1200.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 23, 2022, 11:20:17 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 23, 2022, 10:45:58 AM

I really wish you guys could take your partisan glasses off for 5 minutes. 
.
This guy could be one of the 100 people representing one of the 50 states of our country.  I don't care who hand-picked him to run.  I don't care which party he's in. 
He is not fit to serve in office.  Period. 
.
And when I mention it, all I get is an eyeroll. 
The rural people of Georgia are voting for him for 3 reasons:
1 - he was the best RB ever at UGA
2 - he professes god as being important
3 - he's a republican
.
#1 is obviously not a good reason to vote for anybody.  #3 is what it is and can't be helped (as evidenced by you guys).  But #2 is an obvious lie.  I've lived a far more pious life that he has, despite being an ardent atheist.  I don't need a god to live morally, yet he needs one and still fails. 
.
This is all a sick joke.  You want to know how empires fall?  Goofy bastards like this get elected into office. 

Here's my party. Not talking stupid politics on the football board. 

Sometimes we have interesting nuanced conversations about policies or outlooks or whatever. Often we don't. Absolutely zero percent of that gets done when we babble on about who to vote for or how annoyed we are with a particular pol. 

I'm partisan toward incinerating this post because it's exceptionally useless unless you want to read your own posts and get in pointless political fights with other posters. Complaining about a candidate in a state you don't live in and that basically none of us live in on the public board does nothing but the two things in the previous sentence. So yes, that gets an eye roll, as it should. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on November 23, 2022, 11:33:10 PM

I wouldn’t vote for Hershel Walker, but I don’t get a vote there. 

I declined to vote for anybody for president last election. I liked neither guy or the Alts. I voted for Gary Johnson in ‘16. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 23, 2022, 11:56:26 PM

I still find it rather humorous that OAM is so hot ant bothered by the prospect of HW becoming a senator when we have an absolute idiot in the White House

I guess when the idiot is a dem its ok but when the idiot is a rep you put your righteous foot down

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 24, 2022, 12:38:05 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 23, 2022, 11:56:26 PM

I still find it rather humorous that OAM is so hot ant bothered by the prospect of HW becoming a senator when we have an absolute idiot in the White House

I guess when the idiot is a dem its ok but when the idiot is a rep you put your righteous foot down

That's politics. 

Sure the idiot on your team is an idiot. But he's not an idiot on the other team, so he's the best you got. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 24, 2022, 01:28:39 AM

I'm not a dem.  No matter how many times you pretend I am.  

Biden is just old.  Comparing him to Walker is ignorant.  
.
I'd bet you a dollar HW couldn't explain the 3 main parts of our gov't at a 2nd-grade level.  Forget about checks & balances or anything further.  
He gets votes bc of football.  He was on the ticket bc of football (connection with Trump in the USFL).  He's from my dad's home town and all of my extended family probably voted for him.  It's all an embarrassment.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 24, 2022, 02:12:27 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 24, 2022, 01:28:39 AM

I'm not a dem.  No matter how many times you pretend I am. 

Biden is just old.  Comparing him to Walker is ignorant. 
.
I'd bet you a dollar HW couldn't explain the 3 main parts of our gov't at a 2nd-grade level.  Forget about checks & balances or anything further. 
He gets votes bc of football.  He was on the ticket bc of football (connection with Trump in the USFL).  He's from my dad's home town and all of my extended family probably voted for him.  It's all an embarrassment. 

when something quacks like a duck and looks like a duck its a duck

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2022, 06:38:42 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 23, 2022, 11:20:17 PM

Here's my party. Not talking stupid politics on the football board.

Sometimes we have interesting nuanced conversations about policies or outlooks or whatever. Often we don't. Absolutely zero percent of that gets done when we babble on about who to vote for or how annoyed we are with a particular pol.

I'm partisan toward incinerating this post because it's exceptionally useless unless you want to read your own posts and get in pointless political fights with other posters. Complaining about a candidate in a state you don't live in and that basically none of us live in on the public board does nothing but the two things in the previous sentence. So yes, that gets an eye roll, as it should.

That's the part that I enjoy and support.

Talking about the actual people... not so much. None of them really give a damn about us, except for one day, every 2-4-6 years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2022, 06:39:32 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 24, 2022, 01:28:39 AM

I'm not a dem.  No matter how many times you pretend I am. 

Biden is just old.  Comparing him to Walker is ignorant. 
.
I'd bet you a dollar HW couldn't explain the 3 main parts of our gov't at a 2nd-grade level.  Forget about checks & balances or anything further. 
He gets votes bc of football.  He was on the ticket bc of football (connection with Trump in the USFL).  He's from my dad's home town and all of my extended family probably voted for him.  It's all an embarrassment. 

You talking about Pennsyltucky again?

Just stop.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 24, 2022, 07:14:32 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2022, 06:39:32 AM

You talking about Pennsyltucky again?

Just stop.

At least that guy has an excuse.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2022, 07:19:53 AM

Yet you excuse HIS (and #46) voters. One is old. The other had a stroke. Unfit. Oh, well they have an excuse. 

Just stop. 

I don't have a rope long enough to get you out of that hole you're digging yourself into.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 24, 2022, 07:28:23 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 24, 2022, 02:12:27 AM

when something quacks like a duck and looks like a duck its a duck

Here's an example of the overall problem:  you're going with your opinion over the facts.  My voter registration doesn't have a D or an R on it.  Fact.

But you choose to ignore that. 

Both parties have vocal, radical minorities that make them look bad.  If I quack like a Dem, it's probably because I don't align with the party that was completely taken over by its radical minority. 
You can scoff at that all you want, but it's true.  The Republican party is now the "Sons of Trumpistan."  It has ignored its more knowledgeable, prudent members and gone with the psychopath, in lock-step.  The pied piper of telling it like it is, ignorance, mouth-breathing, election-denying, Yosemite Sam wing of the party. 
The Dems COULD have done that, but didn't.  It's radical minority exists, but has no actual power.  It's been set in the corner to mouth off on Twitter, wielding no influence.  The final 4 candidates for the last presidential election were 2 moderates (Biden, Buttigeg) and 2 left-wing (Warren, Bernie).  Biden won.  The guy who was the VP under a slightly left-leaning Obama won. 
.
If Bernie won and all of our paychecks were the same, you'd have an argument.  I'd be your duck.  If Warren won and half of her cabinet was women and we were bankrupting ourselves for the environment, you'd have an argument.  But that's not the reality.
.
The two parties aren't broken to the same extent.  The Dems need a new battery.  They haven't taken all your guns.  The woke left may be creating policy in 5 cities, but not 5 states and not all 50.  The Republicans have been smashed, backed over with a garbage truck, and are wheeling out Dr. Oz and Herschel Walker, and that's the bottom line, cuz Stone Cold Trump says so!
Hard pass.
Quack quack, ass hat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 24, 2022, 07:29:14 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2022, 07:19:53 AM

Yet you excuse HIS (and #46) voters. One is old. The other had a stroke. Unfit. Oh, well they have an excuse.

Just stop.

I don't have a rope long enough to get you out of that hole you're digging yourself into.

See above.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 24, 2022, 08:06:36 AM

It's Thanksgiving I'll put it off for a day but I wonder if anyone has let Brandon know - be nice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 28, 2022, 05:39:44 PM

Oil Plunges to Lowest Since 2021

Oil tumbled to the lowest level since December as a wave of unrest in China punished risk assets and clouded the outlook for energy demand, adding to stresses in an already-fragile global crude market. Paul Wallace reports on Bloomberg Television.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 29, 2022, 10:07:38 AM

Supply chain problems have finally hit the pharmacies, at least in our area.  There are some meds our patients are having trouble getting, and word is it's only going to get worse for a while.  

Sucks.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 29, 2022, 10:35:01 AM

So many of our pharmaceuticals are manufactured in China, I'm surprised it hasn't already been much worse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 29, 2022, 12:43:40 PM

For many meds produced domestically there are gub'ment restrictions on how many pills can be manufactured per year.  That means we often see supply get artificially low around the end of the year.  Probably we're seeing some of that now.  But there also seems to be a production issue in addition to restriction issues.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 29, 2022, 01:51:22 PM

CHINA

in Trump's voice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 29, 2022, 03:13:45 PM

Celery

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on November 30, 2022, 06:56:17 AM

https://twitter.com/SpokespersonCHN/status/1597577555002855424?s=20&t=NZj4EErveHAZOMwbxu4XZA (https://twitter.com/SpokespersonCHN/status/1597577555002855424?s=20&t=NZj4EErveHAZOMwbxu4XZA)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 30, 2022, 09:36:57 AM

I'm not moving to China

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 30, 2022, 11:11:51 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on November 30, 2022, 06:56:17 AM

https://twitter.com/SpokespersonCHN/status/1597577555002855424?s=20&t=NZj4EErveHAZOMwbxu4XZA (https://twitter.com/SpokespersonCHN/status/1597577555002855424?s=20&t=NZj4EErveHAZOMwbxu4XZA)

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 30, 2022, 11:34:29 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 30, 2022, 11:11:51 AM

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Quote from: Temp430 on November 30, 2022, 06:56:17 AM

https://twitter.com/SpokespersonCHN/status/1597577555002855424?s=20&t=NZj4EErveHAZOMwbxu4XZA (https://twitter.com/SpokespersonCHN/status/1597577555002855424?s=20&t=NZj4EErveHAZOMwbxu4XZA)

considering this is coming from the country that caused the whole thing this is a crock of shit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 30, 2022, 11:42:40 AM

Lulz.  Who are they trying to convince? Their own population is buried under CCP propaganda and isn't in much danger of discovering the truth, and everyone else in the world that matters, already knows better.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 30, 2022, 12:03:15 PM

China, who has killed upwards of several million of its own citizens for having COVID.  

China, who is behind the fentanyl problem in the USA the tweet is calling us out for.  

China, who has about a million Uyghers in a concentration camp right now.  

China, whose leader is so bat**** insane he's having people manually scrub airport runways with Lysol because he thinks that's somehow helping to curb transmission.  

China.

I sympathize with their general population, but I LOLOL at their government.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 30, 2022, 12:04:05 PM

and if their people don't want to be protected and protest against lockdowns, they're beaten to death or disappear

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 30, 2022, 09:12:01 PM

Florida had a QB arrested for having CP on his PC, and it was Jon Kitna's son? Wtf? 

https://sports.yahoo.com/florida-suspends-qb-jalen-kitna-after-arrest-on-child-pornography-charges-214605118.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 30, 2022, 09:18:33 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 30, 2022, 09:12:01 PM

Florida had a QB arrested for having CP on his PC, and it was Jon Kitna's son? Wtf?

https://sports.yahoo.com/florida-suspends-qb-jalen-kitna-after-arrest-on-child-pornography-charges-214605118.html

WTF. Gross. Man.....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 30, 2022, 09:18:51 PM

You always hope it's just some sort of ex-girlfriend pictures when she was 17 or something, but who knows.  Ick.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 01, 2022, 09:14:28 AM

‘Very high probability’ Mauna Loa lava will reach key Hawaii Island highway, USGS says (hawaiinewsnow.com) (https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/11/30/usgs-very-high-probability-that-lava-flow-mauna-loa-will-reach-key-hawaii-island-highway/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 01, 2022, 09:41:53 AM

• The core personal consumption expenditures price index rose 0.2% in October, slightly below the estimate. The index increased 5% year over year.
• Personal income jumped 0.7% for the month, well ahead of the 0.4% estimate, and spending rose 0.8%, as expected.
• Weekly jobless claims totaled 225,000, a decline of 16,000 from the previous week and below the 235,000 estimate.
• Outplacement firm Challenger, Gray & Christmas reported that planned layoffs increased 127% on a monthly basis in November and were up 417% from a year ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 01, 2022, 10:56:27 AM

Trenches, endless mud and death: the Battle of Bakhmut (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/30/trenches-endless-mud-and-death-the-battle-of-bakhmut.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 01, 2022, 03:22:27 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/V9ObXUT.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 01, 2022, 04:52:12 PM

boot polish?

hobnail boot polish

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 01, 2022, 08:24:42 PM

I just threw up in my mouth a little, looking at the Kitna thing, and it wasn't even about what he did (which is obviously horrible/disgusting/etc).  His lawyer, in seeking a lesser bond amount, suggested the content to merely be labeled 'child erotica' instead of porn. 
WTF
Oh, okay, it's just a little bit of child erotica!  Fantastic!  What were we all upset about?!? 
Lawyers are despicable. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 01, 2022, 11:00:33 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 01, 2022, 08:24:42 PM

I just threw up in my mouth a little, looking at the Kitna thing, and it wasn't even about what he did (which is obviously horrible/disgusting/etc).  His lawyer, in seeking a lesser bond amount, suggested the content to merely be labeled 'child erotica' instead of porn. 
WTF
Oh, okay, it's just a little bit of child erotica!  Fantastic!  What were we all upset about?!? 
Lawyers are despicable. 

You’d assume a lawyer would argue a thing like that not to ramp down how upset you are, right. 

The offense you take to this is … interesting. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 02, 2022, 02:36:59 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on December 01, 2022, 11:00:33 PM

You’d assume a lawyer would argue a thing like that not to ramp down how upset you are, right.

The offense you take to this is … interesting.

I really have no idea why you're focusing on me here.

Do you not find the attempted semantic ?softening? tactic despicable?  As if 'child erotica' is any better than 'child porn'.......it's fucked in the head. 
Sounds like they have all the evidence they need and sounds like Kitna was forthcoming, etc....the lawyer is tasked with 1-avoiding trial, 2-getting a not-guilty verdict, and 3- getting the lightest sentence possible. 
.
Sorry if I can't help but notice when the lawyer chooses a bizarre, disgusting, ineffective route. 
.
Oh, judge me for this next one, too:  I hate that Kitna has money (son of NFL QB) and absolutely will be punished less than one of his poorer teammates if they were in the exact same situation.

I'm so sorry for not fixating on what you think I should.  I'm guilty of that, I guess.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2022, 06:59:19 AM

I've learned not to get upset about things totally beyond my purview.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 02, 2022, 07:01:42 AM

Mickey Joseph? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 02, 2022, 07:08:35 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 01, 2022, 08:24:42 PM

Lawyers are despicable. 

Surprised you didn't take up practice provided you could pass the Bar

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2022, 07:20:26 AM

I'm not particularly a fan of lawyers, but to claim they are ALL despicable strikes me as over generalizing, especially given the nature of their jobs as criminal defendants.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2022, 07:28:29 AM

Marine Corp drill instructor chews out reporter for making worst rack ever (taskandpurpose.com) (https://taskandpurpose.com/culture/drill-instructor-chews-reporter-two-sheets-blanket-boot-camp/?utm_campaign=trueanthem_manual&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_term=taskandpurpose&fbclid=IwAR0ftufuVe0yj3v_vIzGk91DteN6CzEf98xwyLIxcvWJtpMcNrfoDvJ9MS4)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2022, 07:41:33 AM

Anybody wanna guess the deepest depths of the Med?  I figured mebbe 5,000'.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 02, 2022, 08:47:09 AM

way deeper, it's like a derned ocean

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 02, 2022, 08:56:53 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 02, 2022, 02:36:59 AM

I really have no idea why you're focusing on me here.

Do you not find the attempted semantic ?softening? tactic despicable?  As if 'child erotica' is any better than 'child porn'.......it's fucked in the head. 
Sounds like they have all the evidence they need and sounds like Kitna was forthcoming, etc....the lawyer is tasked with 1-avoiding trial, 2-getting a not-guilty verdict, and 3- getting the lightest sentence possible. 
.
Sorry if I can't help but notice when the lawyer chooses a bizarre, disgusting, ineffective route. 
.
Oh, judge me for this next one, too:  I hate that Kitna has money (son of NFL QB) and absolutely will be punished less than one of his poorer teammates if they were in the exact same situation.

I'm so sorry for not fixating on what you think I should.  I'm guilty of that, I guess.

I suppose I'm poking at this because is shows a rather dim view of a fundamental right that should probably be celebrated and a lack of inquisitiveness about things. 

The criminal justice system has many, many issues. But dwelling on "everyone deserves a vigorous defense" seems a strange one. And yes, sometimes that defense being vigorous means it will upset a particularly pearl-clutch-y person. Like, bad things happen all the time in that world. Impactful bad things. So I react in a way when people look at it and say "why is that person without a good defense acting so UNSEEMLY?!?!?"

And then there's the lack of inquisitiveness. There's no guess as to why a person might use semantic softening. Very possibly, a state has very stringent child "porn" laws because it's great politics to pass them. But perhaps, another term is another category, with less draconian terms. And that's the lawyer's job (and the government's job to argue against). And yes, the lawyer's job is to do what's best for the client, and in this case, make the government most thoroughly prove the case. 

(The money part is true! But if one's offense at the CJ system is mostly limited to, 1. Money makes it unfair, 2. Look how unseemly and bad defense lawyers are, it just speaks to not being very curious about what one is actually complaining about)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 02, 2022, 10:51:01 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 02, 2022, 07:41:33 AM

Anybody wanna guess the deepest depths of the Med?  I figured mebbe 5,000'.

Change feet to meters and you're roughly there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2022, 11:38:32 AM

Pentagon debuts its new stealth bomber, the B-21 Raider | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/ap/ap-business/ap-pentagon-debuts-its-new-stealth-bomber-the-b-21-raider/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 02, 2022, 12:59:22 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on December 02, 2022, 08:56:53 AM

I suppose I'm poking at this because is shows a rather dim view of a fundamental right that should probably be celebrated and a lack of inquisitiveness about things.

The criminal justice system has many, many issues. But dwelling on "everyone deserves a vigorous defense" seems a strange one. And yes, sometimes that defense being vigorous means it will upset a particularly pearl-clutch-y person. Like, bad things happen all the time in that world. Impactful bad things. So I react in a way when people look at it and say "why is that person without a good defense acting so UNSEEMLY?!?!?"

And then there's the lack of inquisitiveness. There's no guess as to why a person might use semantic softening. Very possibly, a state has very stringent child "porn" laws because it's great politics to pass them. But perhaps, another term is another category, with less draconian terms. And that's the lawyer's job (and the government's job to argue against). And yes, the lawyer's job is to do what's best for the client, and in this case, make the government most thoroughly prove the case.

(The money part is true! But if one's offense at the CJ system is mostly limited to, 1. Money makes it unfair, 2. Look how unseemly and bad defense lawyers are, it just speaks to not being very curious about what one is actually complaining about)

My lack of inquisitiveness with your opinion is immense.
My "dim view" is sharable BECAUSE all of the fundamental right business is a given.  You don't seem to get that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 02, 2022, 01:01:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 02, 2022, 07:20:26 AM

I'm not particularly a fan of lawyers, but to claim they are ALL despicable strikes me as over generalizing, especially given the nature of their jobs as criminal defendants.

Where did I type "all"?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2022, 01:04:58 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 01, 2022, 08:24:42 PM

Lawyers are despicable. 

Seems rather all encompassing to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 02, 2022, 01:11:30 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 02, 2022, 11:38:32 AM

Pentagon debuts its new stealth bomber, the B-21 Raider | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/ap/ap-business/ap-pentagon-debuts-its-new-stealth-bomber-the-b-21-raider/)

Not impressed. 

I’ll be impressed by the pentagon for the first time ever when they pass an audit. So yeah, that’d be never. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2022, 01:21:12 PM

There is nothing as yet with which to be impressed or depressed other than the probable price tag of a billion each, give or take.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 02, 2022, 01:22:44 PM

Th effing defense contractors along with the FED have fleeced the hard working folks since the end of WWII.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 02, 2022, 01:25:01 PM

and probably before then

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 02, 2022, 11:39:43 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 02, 2022, 01:04:58 PM

Seems rather all encompassing to me.

Not compared to "all lawyers are despicable."    :96:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 03, 2022, 12:53:41 AM

Fro's arguing like a chick again. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 03, 2022, 12:58:48 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on December 03, 2022, 12:53:41 AM

Fro's arguing like a chick again.

:043:

BB - I'm guessin' you were pulling for the the Utes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 03, 2022, 06:44:54 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/v3S2Ifl.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 03, 2022, 07:29:29 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/J8Hrsh4.png)

This is a view from a Mauna Kea web cam, it's hard to imagine how huge that mountain is and how massive the eruption must be to appear like this.  You can see the very gradual slope of the mountain.  This is from about 35 miles distant.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 03, 2022, 08:40:53 AM

it's huge and growing today

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 03, 2022, 09:15:44 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 02, 2022, 12:59:22 PM

My lack of inquisitiveness with your opinion is immense.
My "dim view" is sharable BECAUSE all of the fundamental right business is a given.  You don't seem to get that.

That last part doesn’t make sense. But the first part does. And if the unseemliness of that sort of thing catches in your craw so badly, suppose that is what it is. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 03, 2022, 09:34:35 AM

"My "dim view" is sharable BECAUSE all of the fundamental right business is a given."

I am not following this at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on December 03, 2022, 09:53:40 AM

Having been to the Big Island, I understand just how massive Mauna Loa is. Will the flow then go towards Hilo or Kona?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 03, 2022, 10:14:09 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on December 03, 2022, 09:53:40 AM

Having been to the Big Island, I understand just how massive Mauna Loa is. Will the flow then go towards Hilo or Kona?

Currently, neither, it's heading towards the middle of the island near the Mauna Kea cutoff road.

If it really go going hard I think it would head NW in the direction of Kona, but that would have to be a massive long term eruption to reach that far.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 03, 2022, 10:21:47 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on December 03, 2022, 12:53:41 AM

Fro's arguing like a chick again.

I understand that this is the worst thing you can say in your eyes, but it probably shouldn't be.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 03, 2022, 10:22:11 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 03, 2022, 09:34:35 AM

"My "dim view" is sharable BECAUSE all of the fundamental right business is a given."

I am not following this at all.

I don't expect you to.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 03, 2022, 10:22:27 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on December 03, 2022, 09:15:44 AM

That last part doesn’t make sense. But the first part does. And if the unseemliness of that sort of thing catches in your craw so badly, suppose that is what it is.

Doesn't make sense...to you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 04, 2022, 08:26:22 AM

It doesn't make any sense to anyone else here either.  But for most of us, English is our first language.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 04, 2022, 08:27:36 AM

Mauna Loa Eruption, HI - USGS live stream - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnjGqn1K9ZQ)

Unfortunately pretty low resolution, but still pretty amazing.  Oh, I now see this is a thermal imaging camera.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 04, 2022, 08:34:07 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 03, 2022, 08:40:53 AM

it's huge and growing today

Well if you wouldn't take a cart so much and drink Bud Light your gut wouldn't be a problem

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 04, 2022, 08:40:30 AM

if I were a girl, I'd worry more about my belly fat and drink light beer

and I'd swing a club like a girl too

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 04, 2022, 08:41:05 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 03, 2022, 10:22:11 AM

I don't expect you to.

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 03, 2022, 10:22:27 AM

Doesn't make sense...to you.

So CD & BAB don't comprehend your carnival barking - you're alright - it's the world that's whack.You could start a fight in an empty elevator

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 04, 2022, 08:42:48 AM

and lose

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 04, 2022, 08:45:03 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 04, 2022, 08:40:30 AM

if I were a girl, I'd worry more about my belly fat and drink light beer

and I'd swing a club like a girl too

I'm not calling you a girl they don't eat runza's and choke on havana's

Nub or Nubbing – When a cigar is so good you want to smoke it to the last millimeter. Just don’t burn your fingers.
Guess I'm popular in the Cigar Parlors

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 04, 2022, 08:56:00 AM

I don't smoke em down to less than the last inch, but that's the best part

get some tar on yer lips and a good buzz

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 04, 2022, 10:17:23 AM

I'm still amazed all these cranes stay erect on such an apparently thin base.

(https://i.imgur.com/SOjLFBL.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 04, 2022, 12:51:21 PM

Hey, some guys like skinny girls.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 04, 2022, 01:02:27 PM

that's why some girls drink skinny beer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 04, 2022, 01:17:59 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/Fvv6iwj.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 05, 2022, 08:04:56 AM

The uoper left map shows most of the island.  The current area of flow is pretty flat and spread out so the rate has slowed, but it's getting closer to the highway.  The pink area shows lava flows over about 200 years or so, it would take quite some time for this one to get down to the beach areas where resorts are.  I hope.

(https://i.imgur.com/9QlhOSl.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 05, 2022, 08:06:47 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/Z9WJ74h.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 05, 2022, 08:38:27 AM

Hawaii's Kilauea volcano is one of the world's longest erupting volcanos. It has been erupting since January 3, 1983. The word "Kilauea" means "much spreading" or "spewing" in Hawaiian.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 05, 2022, 09:11:10 AM

My sister in law is from Hilo on the big island.  Her parents and grandparents still live there.  This is a picture they took a couple of days ago, from Hilo Bay.

(https://i.imgur.com/aZaoVMr.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 05, 2022, 09:19:35 AM

Moths to a flame

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 05, 2022, 09:20:37 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 05, 2022, 08:38:27 AM

Hawaii's Kilauea volcano is one of the world's longest erupting volcanos. It has been erupting since January 3, 1983. The word "Kilauea" means "much spreading" or "spewing" in Hawaiian.

lot of "Kilauea" on this board

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 05, 2022, 01:55:05 PM

you're a major contributor

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 06, 2022, 09:30:20 AM

Twitter won't bury this one.

Scientist who worked at Wuhan lab says COVID man-made virus (nypost.com) (https://nypost.com/2022/12/03/scientist-who-worked-at-wuhan-lab-says-covid-man-made-virus/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on December 06, 2022, 09:36:31 AM

There's a lot we owe China for.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2022, 09:52:41 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 06, 2022, 09:30:20 AM

Twitter won't bury this one.

Scientist who worked at Wuhan lab says COVID man-made virus (nypost.com) (https://nypost.com/2022/12/03/scientist-who-worked-at-wuhan-lab-says-covid-man-made-virus/)

A scientist who worked at a controversial research lab in China has claimed that COVID was a man-made virus that leaked from the facility, according to a report.
Andrew Huff, who worked for a New York-based nonprofit that studied viruses, said COVID leaked from the Wuhan Institute of Virology in China two-plus years ago and blamed authorities for the “biggest US intelligence failure since 9/11,” Britain’s the Sun reported Saturday. (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/20543847/wuhan-lab-warning-covid-lab-leak/)
The lab has been at the center of fierce debates about the origins of COVID, with both Chinese government officials and lab personnel denying that the virus leaked from the facility.
Huff, an epidemiologist, said in his new book, “The Truth About Wuhan,” that the pandemic was the result of the US government’s funding of coronaviruses in China

Huff, who worked at EcoHealth Alliance from 2014 to 2016, said the nonprofit helped the Wuhan lab put together the “best existing methods to engineer bat coronaviruses to attack other species” for many years.


Did this Huff fellow work at that lab himself?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 06, 2022, 10:03:03 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 06, 2022, 09:52:41 AM

A scientist who worked at a controversial research lab in China has claimed that COVID was a man-made virus that leaked from the facility, according to a report.
Andrew Huff, who worked for a New York-based nonprofit that studied viruses, said COVID leaked from the Wuhan Institute of Virology in China two-plus years ago and blamed authorities for the “biggest US intelligence failure since 9/11,” Britain’s the Sun reported Saturday. (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/20543847/wuhan-lab-warning-covid-lab-leak/)
The lab has been at the center of fierce debates about the origins of COVID, with both Chinese government officials and lab personnel denying that the virus leaked from the facility.
Huff, an epidemiologist, said in his new book, “The Truth About Wuhan,” that the pandemic was the result of the US government’s funding of coronaviruses in China

Huff, who worked at EcoHealth Alliance from 2014 to 2016, said the nonprofit helped the Wuhan lab put together the “best existing methods to engineer bat coronaviruses to attack other species” for many years.


Did this Huff fellow work at that lab himself? 

well he worked at EcoHealth Alliance....same entity that applied for a grant to DARPA in 2018 in which they literally laid out how to build COVID. DARPA denied their grant saying it was too risky and there was no real benefit to any of the research. We know this thankfully because of a leak by someone who worked at DARPA. They would've been working on this research before ever applying for a grant from DARPA and just because they got turned down by DARPA doesn't mean they would've ended said research either. 

It was obvious as hell pretty fairly soon that the official narrative was bs and lots of things weren't adding up. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2022, 10:05:20 AM

When the article claims he worked at Wuhan, and it seems he never did, I look for some other report on his book.  Maybe he's right, maybe he's selling books, the articles lose cred with me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2022, 11:59:29 AM

Atlanta, on a roll, named No. 1 in another 'best city' list | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/named-no-1-city-creatives-best-lists-rankings)

Lists .......

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 06, 2022, 12:03:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 06, 2022, 11:59:29 AM

Atlanta, on a roll, named No. 1 in another 'best city' list | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/named-no-1-city-creatives-best-lists-rankings)

Lists .......

lists are stoopid and subjective BUT....Atlanta is objectively just an awesome place.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2022, 12:05:56 PM

The city is fine for some, not for others, like every place it has some pros and cons.  The airline magazines used to have pages for "Top Ten Cosmetic Surgeons in the US" that were pure ads, nothing else, or best steak houses, at least there you knew someone paid to get on the list.

Anything like "Best Restaurant" or "Best Wine" is someone's opinion.  Most outstanding college football player ... collective opinion.  Best team ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 06, 2022, 12:07:55 PM

Atlanta is amazing and everyone should move there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 06, 2022, 12:09:14 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 06, 2022, 12:07:55 PM

Atlanta is amazing and everyone should move there.

still on that PR campaign to get people to stop moving to Austin I see lol 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2022, 12:09:58 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 06, 2022, 12:07:55 PM

Atlanta is amazing and everyone should move there.

My kid in Austin is moving to Columbus shortly.  Not real clear why, job related I think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 06, 2022, 12:30:08 PM

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI (mo.gov) (https://ago.mo.gov/docs/default-source/press-releases/135885afauci112322_full_redacted.pdf?sfvrsn=35f4a425_2)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 06, 2022, 12:40:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 06, 2022, 12:05:56 PM

The city is fine for some, not for others, like every place it has some pros and cons.  The airline magazines used to have pages for "Top Ten Cosmetic Surgeons in the US" that were pure ads, nothing else, or best steak houses, at least there you knew someone paid to get on the list.

Anything like "Best Restaurant" or "Best Wine" is someone's opinion.  Most outstanding college football player ... collective opinion.  Best team ...

Rolled through last week. Drove somewhat near your place on the way to a friend’s house.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2022, 12:41:17 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on December 06, 2022, 12:40:08 PM

Rolled through last week. Drove somewhat near your place on the way to a friend’s house.

Yeah, if you came down the Connector you were less than 2 miles away.

The Connector really doesn't do a lot of connecting for much of the day ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 06, 2022, 01:20:35 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 06, 2022, 12:07:55 PM

Atlanta is amazing and everyone should move there.

But for all the Cali transplants Austin is closer - Thank You for your support

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 06, 2022, 01:23:35 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 06, 2022, 12:30:08 PM

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI (mo.gov) (https://ago.mo.gov/docs/default-source/press-releases/135885afauci112322_full_redacted.pdf?sfvrsn=35f4a425_2)

Pardon my ignorance about these things, but how does it work that the state of Missouri is suing within a Louisiana district?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 07, 2022, 12:03:57 AM

I'm proud FOR the rural peoples south of Athens and west of Augusta, GA.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 07, 2022, 01:45:49 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 06, 2022, 12:09:58 PM

My kid in Austin is moving to Columbus shortly.  Not real clear why, job related I think.

I thank him for his support. :)

So does that mean you're not visiting?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 07, 2022, 07:27:18 AM

Austin looks like Columbus's twin. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 07, 2022, 07:31:50 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 07, 2022, 01:45:49 AM

I thank him for his support. :)

So does that mean you're not visiting?

Yeah, I called him to inquire about visiting and he told me he was moving, so don't visit ...

Austin is a bit like Columbus, though with much worse traffic in my experience.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 07, 2022, 07:34:02 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on December 07, 2022, 07:27:18 AM

Austin looks like Columbus's twin.

Ya but the Olentangy never disappears in the middle of a hot simmering summer.He's welcome for our support

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 07, 2022, 07:49:36 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 07, 2022, 07:31:50 AM

Yeah, I called him to inquire about visiting and he told me he was moving, so don't visit ...

Austin is a bit like Columbus, though with much worse traffic in my experience.

much better weather than Columbus. much better looking women. much cooler college football program too. i'll take the trade off of the worse traffic. can't have everything. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 07, 2022, 07:52:07 AM

I'd lean to Austin for better food and music as well, but C-bus isn't a wasteland, and my kid knows it well.

My daughter is in Vancouver now for a few years at least.  She likes it, tres cher.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 07, 2022, 07:58:20 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 07, 2022, 07:49:36 AM

much better weather than Columbus. much better looking women. much cooler college football program too. i'll take the trade off of the worse traffic. can't have everything.

Better weather if you mean by warmer sure But I'll trade some snow for many multiple 90-100 deg days and occasional Hurricane winds - choose your poison.Women are young and gorgeous in C-Bus.They just have a lot of clothes on,perhaps you should pack your walker and take a road trip

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 07, 2022, 08:01:29 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 07, 2022, 12:03:57 AM

I'm proud FOR the rural peoples south of Athens and west of Augusta, GA.

You should be happy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 07, 2022, 08:50:43 AM

Hey Mr. N-- just thought you should know, I've purchased the eggs, cream, sugar, and rum, for the eggnog.  We'll be making something like 7 gallons of it on Friday night.  If you come on down, I'll gift you a quart or two. :)


(https://i.imgur.com/bTLL9Za.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 07, 2022, 08:54:18 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 07, 2022, 08:50:43 AM

Hey Mr. N-- just thought you should know, I've purchased the eggs, cream, sugar, and rum, for the eggnog.  We'll be making something like 7 gallons of it on Friday night.  If you come on down, I'll gift you a quart or two. :)

Some home brewin' right there (https://www.cfb51.com/Smileys/fantasticsmileys/a035.gif) .How long does it last?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 07, 2022, 08:55:48 AM

It looks like Austin doesn't have nearly as many giant ghettos as Columbus. So that's a plus. 

In Columbus you gotta stay west of 71, and north of 70 for the most part, with Bexley and New Albany serving as oases in the forbidden zone. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 07, 2022, 08:57:35 AM

7 gallons? Only lasts through the night of the party.  We'll probably have about 70-100 people come through over the course of the evening.

But I sometimes save off a couple of quarts to have ready for Christmas day, or to age until next year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 07, 2022, 09:25:24 AM

My daughter lived SE of downtown in what she described as an area that was headed up.  She is still renting that house.  She did have a breakin in her garage and lost a lot of tools.  Her house was nice looking though I never saw it before she moved.

It's interesting to me how many larger cities are nicer in the north and slummy in the south.  The ritzy part of Atlanta is the NW portion where the houses qualify as mansions often as not.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 07, 2022, 10:50:14 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/I3aRBPQ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 07, 2022, 10:57:42 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on December 07, 2022, 08:55:48 AM

It looks like Austin doesn't have nearly as many giant ghettos as Columbus. So that's a plus.

In Columbus you gotta stay west of 71, and north of 70 for the most part, with Bexley and New Albany serving as oases in the forbidden zone.

Austin had some reasonably-sized and somewhat dangerous ghettos back in the 70s and 80s. "East Austin" used to be pretty bad, but gentrification has pushed most of that well beyond the borders of the city.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 07, 2022, 10:59:36 AM

We miss you… (secretatlanta.co) (https://secretatlanta.co/polaris-rotating-rooftop-atlanta/)

This is reopening, it was a something in 1967 ...

(https://i.imgur.com/3H8DRKI.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on December 07, 2022, 11:44:52 AM

I'm ashamed to admit I don't think I've ever really had any eggnog.  TTYTT, I don't even really know WTF it is.  Just some christmastime alcohol drink.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 07, 2022, 11:46:02 AM

you should be ashamed

it's a seasonal alcoholic beverage, Dude

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 07, 2022, 11:49:25 AM

Quote from: Gigem on December 07, 2022, 11:44:52 AM

I'm ashamed to admit I don't think I've ever really had any eggnog.  TTYTT, I don't even really know WTF it is.  Just some christmastime alcohol drink. 

Quote from: FearlessF on December 07, 2022, 11:46:02 AM

you should be ashamed

it's a seasonal alcoholic beverage, Dude

If you buy store-bought then it's typically non-alcoholic.  Storebought eggnog is also gross IMO.

I grew up hating the stuff because all I'd ever had was storebought junk.  But one time early in our marriage, my i s c & a aggie wife made some of her family's homemade recipe, and it tasted like a completely different beverage.  And it was delicious.

JMO, obviously.  Lots of people don't like it, but I'm  guessing a decent percentage of those folks have never had a good homemade version of it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 07, 2022, 11:50:03 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 07, 2022, 08:57:35 AM

7 gallons? Only lasts through the night of the party.  We'll probably have about 70-100 people come through over the course of the evening.

But I sometimes save off a couple of quarts to have ready for Christmas day, or to age until next year.

Just curious how much hooch ya put into it to keep bacteria/spoilage down for that long or are you just yanking my proverbials? Ouside of honey what else lasts that long (not frozen)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 07, 2022, 11:55:08 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 07, 2022, 11:49:25 AM

Storebought eggnog is also gross IMO .I grew up hating the stuff because all I'd ever had was storebought junk. 

Don't know about that - CF Burger makes some good stuff they call custard nog,damn good ,oddly not sure if I've ever had eggnog with any liquor or liqueur

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 07, 2022, 11:56:32 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 07, 2022, 11:50:03 AM

Just curious how much hooch ya put into it to keep bacteria/spoilage down for that long or are you just yanking my proverbials? Ouside of honey what else lasts that long (not frozen)

Are you talking about the aging, or serving 7 gallons in a night? :)

For the aging, it stays in the refrigerator all year long.  There's plenty of booze too.  Couldn't tell you how much is in a quart, but I've aged up to two years and there's no problem with spoilage.  It definitely loses its "fluffiness" over time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 07, 2022, 11:58:02 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 07, 2022, 11:55:08 AM

Don't know about that - CF Burger makes some good stuff they call custard nog,damn good ,oddly not sure if I've ever had eggnog with any liquor or liqueur

Just like beer or wine or anything else, folks should drink what they like.  But I've always hated storebought eggnog.  I'm not joking when I say that the homemade stuff tastes like an entirely different beverage, and to my personal taste, it's much better.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 07, 2022, 12:01:07 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 07, 2022, 11:56:32 AM

For the aging, it stays in the refrigerator all year long.  There's plenty of booze too.  Couldn't tell you how much is in a quart, but I've aged up to two years and there's no problem with spoilage.  It definitely loses its "fluffiness" over time.

I believe you alright but it would be a tough sell asking folks to try my one year old eggnog.They'd give me a disgusting look then go grab a BUD 🤣

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 07, 2022, 12:02:48 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 07, 2022, 12:01:07 PM

I believe you alright but it would be a tough sell asking folks to try my one year old eggnog.They'd give me a disgusting look then go grab a BUD 🤣

Oh I don't ask anyone to drink it.  I don't serve it at the party.  That's my personal stash.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 07, 2022, 12:07:37 PM

HA!Damn I just might try that,like fine wine

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 07, 2022, 12:13:33 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 07, 2022, 12:02:48 PM

Oh I don't ask anyone to drink it.  I don't serve it at the party.  That's my personal stash.

Texas people will put just about anything in their mouths, huh?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 07, 2022, 12:16:25 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 07, 2022, 11:49:25 AM

If you buy store-bought then it's typically non-alcoholic.  Storebought eggnog is also gross IMO.

I grew up hating the stuff because all I'd ever had was storebought junk.  But one time early in our marriage, my i s c & a aggie wife made some of her family's homemade recipe, and it tasted like a completely different beverage.  And it was delicious.

JMO, obviously.  Lots of people don't like it, but I'm  guessing a decent percentage of those folks have never had a good homemade version of it.

Plus, like a white russian, if you drink too much of it, it's REALLY not fun.
For me, booze + dairy doesn't mix.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 07, 2022, 12:21:54 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 07, 2022, 11:49:25 AM

If you buy store-bought then it's typically non-alcoholic.  Storebought eggnog is also gross IMO.

PromiseLand eggnog is delicious to me.  Every other store-bought brand is relatively gross. 

I thought about deleting the random emoji that shows up in the quote box but it seems to fit, albeit in the wrong season. 

EDIT:  nm, apparently the emoji doesn't make it to the actual post.  All this time I've been needlessly deleting those goofy things

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 07, 2022, 12:23:38 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 07, 2022, 12:13:33 PM

Texas people will put just about anything in their mouths, huh?

This sounds like a loaded question.  But when it comes to putting weird stuff in your mouth, I don't think anyone can outdo those Cajuns in Lousiaiana.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 07, 2022, 12:28:34 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 07, 2022, 12:23:38 PM

This sounds like a loaded question.  But when it comes to putting weird stuff in your mouth, I don't think anyone can outdo those Cajuns in Lousiaiana.

Calling Andrew Zimmern

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 07, 2022, 12:33:25 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 07, 2022, 12:16:25 PM

Plus, like a white russian, if you drink too much of it, it's REALLY not fun.
For me, booze + dairy doesn't mix.

Yeah a lot of folks seem to be that way.  I get it.  I never thought I'd like it myself, until a social situation sort of forced me to try it.  And I'm glad it did.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 07, 2022, 12:35:00 PM

You got peer-pressured into eggnog?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 07, 2022, 12:37:37 PM

Hey CD got peer pressured into Skyline Chili

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 07, 2022, 12:45:51 PM

I preferred Blue Ash Chili to Skyline ....

It's not really cinamon flavored, but it is a bit odd.  Put enough cheese on it and hot sauce and it's fine ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 07, 2022, 02:19:32 PM

CF Burger???

probably don't want to know

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 07, 2022, 03:13:13 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 07, 2022, 12:35:00 PM

You got peer-pressured into eggnog? 

Sort of.

Early-on in our dating, my (then) i s c & a aggie gf had made her Great Uncle George's family recipe for a Christmas get-together at her parents' house.  When offered, I politely declined, and made the mistake of saying I didn't like the stuff.  Well then, she insisted in front of her family that I try it.  So, I figured I needed some brownie points to stay in her good graces, and that's why I tried it.

If I hadn't been trying to impress a girl, then I'd probably never have discovered its deliciousness.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 07, 2022, 03:42:26 PM

trying to impress a girl is often followed by "hold my beer"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 07, 2022, 04:42:52 PM

And 9-1-

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 07, 2022, 05:10:02 PM

I made an egg nog that was amazing for a 1/2 Christmas BBQ during COVID.  I was a hit, everyone asked for the recipe.  I later did the math, and it was obscenely unhealthy, while containing a very low amount of alcohol

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 07, 2022, 06:12:45 PM

Quote from: ELA on December 07, 2022, 05:10:02 PM

I made an egg nog that was amazing for a 1/2 Christmas BBQ during COVID.  I was a hit, everyone asked for the recipe.  I later did the math, and it was obscenely unhealthy, while containing a very low amount of alcohol

My version is obscenely unhealty, while containing a high amount of alcohol.  If I had to guess, it's at least 2 oz. of booze per serving, which is pretty standard or even a little high for an average full-fledged cocktail.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on December 07, 2022, 08:00:57 PM

Wel, I’m obviously uncultured. But nobody in our family ever made the stuff, and very few of the women are drinkers. And the women did 100% of the cooking and would throw a fit if it was suggested otherwise. I truly thought it was sorta a northern thing, like chowder and snow on Christmas. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 07, 2022, 10:13:43 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 07, 2022, 06:12:45 PM

My version is obscenely unhealty, while containing a high amount of alcohol.  If I had to guess, it's at least 2 oz. of booze per serving, which is pretty standard or even a little high for an average full-fledged cocktail.

Mine turned out to be like a half shot per serving.  It was mostly egg and sugar 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CWSooner on December 07, 2022, 10:17:21 PM

British Guy reacts to Big Ten Stadiums

https://youtu.be/tIxWqAgot_k (https://youtu.be/tIxWqAgot_k)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 07, 2022, 10:44:02 PM

Quote from: Gigem on December 07, 2022, 08:00:57 PM

Wel, I’m obviously uncultured. But nobody in our family ever made the stuff, and very few of the women are drinkers. And the women did 100% of the cooking and would throw a fit if it was suggested otherwise. I truly thought it was sorta a northern thing, like chowder and snow on Christmas.

Can't really comment on that.  Growing up in Austin in the 70s/80s, it was always ubiquitous on grocery store shelves and both of my older siblings loved it, so we always had plenty of it around the house. I couldn't stand it.

My i s c & a aggie wife's family are of German descent, not sure if that has anything to do with it.  Its origin is apparently English,  some kind of milk/fig punch called a posset, which eventually crossed the pond and eggnog became common during American colonial times.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 08, 2022, 06:24:50 AM

Wassail is the good Christmas drink. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 08, 2022, 08:02:54 AM

I recall store bought egg nog sans EtOH as a kid,  I bought some a few years ago and it stayed in the fridge unopened until it went bad.  I think my Dad liked it.

There is no French equivalent apparently.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 08, 2022, 08:38:24 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 08, 2022, 08:02:54 AM

I recall store bought egg nog sans EtOH as a kid,  I bought some a few years ago and it stayed in the fridge unopened until it went bad.  I think my Dad liked it.

There is no French equivalent apparently.

The French were too busy making the best wine on the planet.  They looked over at the English making weird drinks with eggs and figs and said non, merci.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 08, 2022, 08:57:16 AM

Quote from: Gigem on December 07, 2022, 08:00:57 PM

Wel, I’m obviously uncultured. But nobody in our family ever made the stuff, and very few of the women are drinkers. And the women did 100% of the cooking and would throw a fit if it was suggested otherwise. I truly thought it was sorta a northern thing, like chowder and snow on Christmas.

Not where I'm from. Snow? Yes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 08, 2022, 09:38:44 AM

Egg nog isn't a big deal or widely popular here

mostly because the store bought stuff is not great

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 08, 2022, 09:41:35 AM

Introducing Giraffe - Urbanize's partner on an innovative mapping project | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/introducing-giraffe-urbanizes-partner-innovative-mapping-project)

An interesting tool for some urban dwellers ... below is Chicago Fulton Market area.

(https://i.imgur.com/cqRCuRH.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 08, 2022, 09:52:40 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 08, 2022, 09:38:44 AM

Egg nog isn't a big deal or widely popular here

mostly because the store bought stuff is not great

I don't think I'd call it a "big deal" here.  It's on the store shelves everywhere and people buy it, but nobody's bragging about drinking it or anything.  Our eggnog party is unique, and probably a bit quirky, which is why we do it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 08, 2022, 10:41:34 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 07, 2022, 03:42:26 PM

trying to impress a girl is often followed by "hold my beer"

Unfortunately (fortunately?), I don't have any cool stories like that.  As noted, Louisiana girls weren't impressed by me, so I didn't try.  Texas girls were, without me actually doing anything, so I didn't try.  

I have a number of friends with some hilarious tales of trying to impress girls, though.  

Where I can relate is with young guys attempting to impress their friends.  Me and one of my oldest buddies in Baton Rouge, I am sometimes amazed we grew up and didn't die with some of the stuff we got ourselves into.  We didn't even have youtube back then to give us ideas/how-to's on stuff we definitely should've stayed away from.  My stepsons occasionally tell us about things they did when they were 10-12ish with the pool of wisdom that is the internet at their disposal, and I'm similarly amazed that they didn't die either.  Or kill somebody else.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 08, 2022, 11:00:17 AM

Experimental mRNA Vaccine May Protect Against All 20 Influenza Virus Subtypes

https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2022/12/06/experimental-mrna-vaccine-may-protect-against-all-20-influenza-virus-subtypes/ (https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2022/12/06/experimental-mrna-vaccine-may-protect-against-all-20-influenza-virus-subtypes/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on December 08, 2022, 11:01:24 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 08, 2022, 10:41:34 AM

Unfortunately (fortunately?), I don't have any cool stories like that.  As noted, Louisiana girls weren't impressed by me, so I didn't try.  Texas girls were, without me actually doing anything, so I didn't try. 

I have a number of friends with some hilarious tales of trying to impress girls, though. 

Where I can relate is with young guys attempting to impress their friends.  Me and one of my oldest buddies in Baton Rouge, I am sometimes amazed we grew up and didn't die with some of the stuff we got ourselves into.  We didn't even have youtube back then to give us ideas/how-to's on stuff we definitely should've stayed away from.  My stepsons occasionally tell us about things they did when they were 10-12ish with the pool of wisdom that is the internet at their disposal, and I'm similarly amazed that they didn't die either.  Or kill somebody else. 

The summer before my senior year in high school, I went to a bonfire party.  I don't even recall how I got the invitation, just that I kinda wanted to go because the girl who was hosting it (Heidi) was kinda hot.  Even if nothing came of it, I knew other people going, so I figured it should be fun.
About halfway through the party, the fire was getting a bit low and I look over, and Heidi is walking towards the bonfire with a gas can and she tips it over to pour some gas on.

You know where you see those commercials where things go in slow motion and you can hear your voice coming out in a low and slow "Noooooooooooooo" while something bad happens?  That actually kinda is true.  I can still see in my mind the fire moving up the stream coming from the can and, fortunately, at the very last moment, she whipped the can away before the can exploded.  The bonfire erupted 20 feet high and singed some leaves, but otherwise no damage.

Turns out, later that night I learned that she had done that to impress me.  Apparently she was looking for a way to start a conversation.

The relationship only lasted a couple of months, but those were a fun couple of months.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 08, 2022, 11:08:23 AM

Dood, your charismatic magnetism nearly killed a girl.  

You must always use your powers for good.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 08, 2022, 11:32:29 AM

One bad thing about filling gas cans with static e.

Liquid gasoline won't explode though it will burn readily (duh) but once the vapors get started ....

Diesel won't burn if you throw a match onto it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on December 08, 2022, 01:50:12 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 08, 2022, 11:08:23 AM

Dood, your charismatic magnetism nearly killed a girl. 

You must always use your powers for good. 

Heh.  Actually, there is another story I can tell here:

I am generally not a superstitious person.   Not a big believer in the paranormal.

But.....

I will NEVER flip a quarter again for the rest of my life.
"
Back in college, my friends and I would hang out at a little snack shop in the basement of McCutheon Hall at Purdue.  It was the "McCutheon Grill", and thus we were the "Grill Rats".  We were there most nights, either hanging out, playing euchre, or doing homework / studying (even though most of us didn't actually live in McCutheon).

Anyways, one of my friends was short a quarter to buy a grilled cheese sandwich, so as a joke, I said, "Well, I'll flip you for it".  He "won" so I gave him the quarter and he paid for his sandwich.

The next day, his girlfriend dumped him.  Mostly due to the fact that she was actually married (and had never told him) and she was just feeling too guilty about it.  He had already been having a bad day considering his alarm hadn't gone off that morning and he had missed a test.  There was some other thing that went wrong too that I don't recall, but I do remember him telling me that his life had pretty much gone to crap since I gave him that quarter.

We joked about it a bit, and another friend offered to take a flipped quarter from me to "transfer the bad luck away from friend #1".  So, I flipped a quarter and gave it to friend #2.  The next day was particularly cold (this was January, IIRC).  Friend #2 needed groceries and went out to his car to drive over to Lafayette where the nearest Marsh was.  He got about half way there when his car started emitting black smoke everywhere.  Turns out, the cold weather somehow caused his engine block to crack.  Whole new engine required - $1800.

It became a bit of a running gag after that.  People wanted to test it and see if it was true.

Friend #3 got a flipped quarter:  The next day while driving, he tried to stop at a stop light but his car slid on the ice, and he t-boned a cop car.

Friend #4 got a flipped quarter:  He was a grad student working on his thesis.  Two days after receiving the quarter, his professor adviser dropped dead and the other faculty weren't willing to continue the existing thesis premise, so he had to start over from scratch.

Friend #5 got a flipped quarter:  The next day his mother wasn't feeling well, went into the hospital and needed an emergency hysterectomy.  

That was the point where I cut it off.  People were getting hurt.

There is a rational part of my mind that realizes that these were probably all coincidences and that there really isn't anything cursed about my hands.

But I'm not going to take any chances.

Just in case.

So yeah, haven't flipped a quarter in over 25 years.
(for the record, other denominations like dimes, pennies, etc. have no effect).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 08, 2022, 02:03:32 PM

Good to know.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 08, 2022, 02:56:25 PM

Quote from: grillrat on December 08, 2022, 11:01:24 AM

The summer before my senior year in high school, I went to a bonfire party.  I don't even recall how I got the invitation, just that I kinda wanted to go because the girl who was hosting it (Heidi) was kinda hot. 

The relationship only lasted a couple of months, but those were a fun couple of months.

You were right about one thing - she was kinda hot

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 08, 2022, 03:42:36 PM

President Sh*t for brains senile old f*ck face gives up an international arms dealer with deep connections to Russian military intelligence and upper echelon of Russian gov't- who armed terror groups everywhere from North Africa to the Middle East to South America and has been credibly accused of taking part in politically motivated assassinations for an American basketball lesbian who is in a Russian jail for marijuana. Can't make this sh*t up.

This was 100000000% done for optics. Pandering to LGBTQ+, blacks, and women for PR/votes. No one should give a single flying f**k about Brittney Griner when you have HOW MANY countless tens of thousands US citzens in AMERICAN jails and prisons for marijuana related charges.

Not to mention they gave Russia a bonafide evil vile bad guy to get this moron who willingly tried to bring marijuana (a substance which is basically illegal in every country- even HERE) into a foreign country she was visting. Sh*t is unreal. Who is the Russian puppet again lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 08, 2022, 03:59:09 PM

lolz, even Micah Parsons tweeted a WTF about that.

....or does that go in the NFL thread?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 08, 2022, 04:00:01 PM

Quote from: grillrat on December 08, 2022, 01:50:12 PM

Heh.  Actually, there is another story I can tell here:

I am generally not a superstitious person.  Not a big believer in the paranormal.

But.....

I will NEVER flip a quarter again for the rest of my life.
"
Back in college, my friends and I would hang out at a little snack shop in the basement of McCutheon Hall at Purdue.  It was the "McCutheon Grill", and thus we were the "Grill Rats".  We were there most nights, either hanging out, playing euchre, or doing homework / studying (even though most of us didn't actually live in McCutheon).

Anyways, one of my friends was short a quarter to buy a grilled cheese sandwich, so as a joke, I said, "Well, I'll flip you for it".  He "won" so I gave him the quarter and he paid for his sandwich.

The next day, his girlfriend dumped him.  Mostly due to the fact that she was actually married (and had never told him) and she was just feeling too guilty about it.  He had already been having a bad day considering his alarm hadn't gone off that morning and he had missed a test.  There was some other thing that went wrong too that I don't recall, but I do remember him telling me that his life had pretty much gone to crap since I gave him that quarter.

We joked about it a bit, and another friend offered to take a flipped quarter from me to "transfer the bad luck away from friend #1".  So, I flipped a quarter and gave it to friend #2.  The next day was particularly cold (this was January, IIRC).  Friend #2 needed groceries and went out to his car to drive over to Lafayette where the nearest Marsh was.  He got about half way there when his car started emitting black smoke everywhere.  Turns out, the cold weather somehow caused his engine block to crack.  Whole new engine required - $1800.

It became a bit of a running gag after that.  People wanted to test it and see if it was true.

Friend #3 got a flipped quarter:  The next day while driving, he tried to stop at a stop light but his car slid on the ice, and he t-boned a cop car.

Friend #4 got a flipped quarter:  He was a grad student working on his thesis.  Two days after receiving the quarter, his professor adviser dropped dead and the other faculty weren't willing to continue the existing thesis premise, so he had to start over from scratch.

Friend #5 got a flipped quarter:  The next day his mother wasn't feeling well, went into the hospital and needed an emergency hysterectomy. 

That was the point where I cut it off.  People were getting hurt.

There is a rational part of my mind that realizes that these were probably all coincidences and that there really isn't anything cursed about my hands.

But I'm not going to take any chances.

Just in case.

So yeah, haven't flipped a quarter in over 25 years.
(for the record, other denominations like dimes, pennies, etc. have no effect).

Was it the same quarter?  

Seems like by #3 or #4 they would've stopped taking the challenge.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 08, 2022, 04:15:37 PM

Quote from: grillrat on December 08, 2022, 01:50:12 PM

Heh.  Actually, there is another story I can tell here:

I am generally not a superstitious person.  Not a big believer in the paranormal.

But.....

I will NEVER flip a quarter again for the rest of my life.
"
Back in college, my friends and I would hang out at a little snack shop in the basement of McCutheon Hall at Purdue.  It was the "McCutheon Grill", and thus we were the "Grill Rats".  We were there most nights, either hanging out, playing euchre, or doing homework / studying (even though most of us didn't actually live in McCutheon).

Anyways, one of my friends was short a quarter to buy a grilled cheese sandwich, so as a joke, I said, "Well, I'll flip you for it".  He "won" so I gave him the quarter and he paid for his sandwich.

The next day, his girlfriend dumped him.  Mostly due to the fact that she was actually married (and had never told him) and she was just feeling too guilty about it.  He had already been having a bad day considering his alarm hadn't gone off that morning and he had missed a test.  There was some other thing that went wrong too that I don't recall, but I do remember him telling me that his life had pretty much gone to crap since I gave him that quarter.

We joked about it a bit, and another friend offered to take a flipped quarter from me to "transfer the bad luck away from friend #1".  So, I flipped a quarter and gave it to friend #2.  The next day was particularly cold (this was January, IIRC).  Friend #2 needed groceries and went out to his car to drive over to Lafayette where the nearest Marsh was.  He got about half way there when his car started emitting black smoke everywhere.  Turns out, the cold weather somehow caused his engine block to crack.  Whole new engine required - $1800.

It became a bit of a running gag after that.  People wanted to test it and see if it was true.

Friend #3 got a flipped quarter:  The next day while driving, he tried to stop at a stop light but his car slid on the ice, and he t-boned a cop car.

Friend #4 got a flipped quarter:  He was a grad student working on his thesis.  Two days after receiving the quarter, his professor adviser dropped dead and the other faculty weren't willing to continue the existing thesis premise, so he had to start over from scratch.

Friend #5 got a flipped quarter:  The next day his mother wasn't feeling well, went into the hospital and needed an emergency hysterectomy. 

That was the point where I cut it off.  People were getting hurt.

There is a rational part of my mind that realizes that these were probably all coincidences and that there really isn't anything cursed about my hands.

But I'm not going to take any chances.

Just in case.

So yeah, haven't flipped a quarter in over 25 years.
(for the record, other denominations like dimes, pennies, etc. have no effect).

This belongs in the "Cold Ice Chilled Place" or whatever that was that you and TK used to write in on the original CFN.

Or am I getting old and stupid?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on December 08, 2022, 04:22:53 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 08, 2022, 04:00:01 PM

Was it the same quarter? 

Seems like by #3 or #4 they would've stopped taking the challenge. 

Nope.  Different quarters.

As I said, at the time, it was more of a "This is stupid and I'm going to prove you wrong" type of thing.  #5 was just a glutton for punishment though.

But hey, this proves that I am indeed not using my powers for evil.



_{(though I have been tempted a time or two.....)}

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on December 08, 2022, 04:25:01 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 08, 2022, 04:15:37 PM

This belongs in the "Cold Ice Chilled Place" or whatever that was that you and TK used to write in on the original CFN.

Or am I getting old and stupid?

Hey now!  It was the "Hall of Just Iced".  If you search hard enough, you can still find it.

And no, I don't think you are stupid.  ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 08, 2022, 04:47:54 PM

this is from like 12 years ago, watch it now before it gets taken down lol. 

US has long standing policy not to negotiate for hostages. This is who that idiot just gave up….for a fking WNBA player. This is a BAD guy.

https://youtu.be/4JUzg6CPD_8

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 08, 2022, 05:18:58 PM

Oh so NOW people pay attention to a WNBA trade?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 08, 2022, 05:38:29 PM

Construction progresses on 2-tower Midtown build replacing eateries | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/midtown-development-juniper-street-einsteins-joes-juniper-photos)

I sent to my wife and she is pretty incensed, calling the buildings ugly, which they pretty much are, and it's a couple blocks away.  Meh.  We don't look that way at least from our unit.

(https://i.imgur.com/R4XTeon.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 08, 2022, 11:50:58 PM

Quote from: ELA on December 08, 2022, 05:18:58 PM

Oh so NOW people pay attention to a WNBA trade?

worst trade in history. Biden just got fleeced by Putin worse than Jimmy Johnson fleeced the Vikings trading them Herschel Walker for a dyansty.

NEVER want to hear this senile old fk stick talk about gun control again. Ever. Has zero credibility on that issue after this.

https://twitter.com/ElderBartleby/status/1601047223894446080?s=20&t=p0EnjZq1HMVuVAIgElc-7g

https://twitter.com/shannonsharpeee/status/1600846789824827392?s=20&t=p0EnjZq1HMVuVAIgElc-7g

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 09, 2022, 07:21:12 AM

At least she checks all the woke boxes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 09, 2022, 07:24:30 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/VaYW99y.png)

Foreground is a French R35 tank designed in the 1930s and used in the early part of WW 2 (1940) next to a Panther tank designed and used in 1943.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 09, 2022, 08:48:48 AM

Quote from: ELA on December 08, 2022, 05:18:58 PM

Oh so NOW people pay attention to a WNBA trade?

Brock for Broglio.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 09, 2022, 08:49:21 AM

Quote from: grillrat on December 08, 2022, 04:25:01 PM

Hey now!  It was the "Hall of Just Iced".  If you search hard enough, you can still find it.

And no, I don't think you are stupid.  ;)

Where is all of that old stuff now?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 09, 2022, 08:55:11 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 09, 2022, 08:49:21 AM

Where is all of that old stuff now?

(https://i.imgur.com/M5rmdV9.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 09, 2022, 09:22:16 AM

I've oddly gotten into the Rugby Sevens series.  It's a series of international tournaments.  The games are quick, like 20 minutes each, which allows for a decent amount of randomness, and the game is pretty open compared to traditional rugby

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 09, 2022, 09:27:15 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 08, 2022, 04:47:54 PM

this is from like 12 years ago, watch it now before it gets taken down lol.

US has long standing policy not to negotiate for hostages. This is who that idiot just gave up….for a fking WNBA player. This is a BAD guy.

Criminal really, anyone involved with negotiating that should be arrested and charged with Treason

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 09, 2022, 09:28:59 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 09, 2022, 07:24:30 AM

Foreground is a French R35 tank designed in the 1930s and used in the early part of WW 2 (1940) next to a Panther tank designed and used in 1943. 

Bringing a knife to a gun fight

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 09, 2022, 09:31:48 AM

I don't think any R35s ever fought a Panther.  The Romanian army was given a bunch of R35s after France fell.  They probably fought some T34/76 tanks, briefly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 09, 2022, 09:35:54 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 09, 2022, 09:31:48 AM

I don't think any R35s ever fought a Panther.  

Well after they over ran France the Gerries were in possession of all of them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 09, 2022, 10:05:05 AM

No doubt some were captured by the Russkis, but I'd guess they laughed at them.  They used the Grant tanks we sent them mostly as armored personnel carriers apparently.

The Russkis had some pretty good tanks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 09, 2022, 10:15:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 09, 2022, 10:05:05 AM

No doubt some were captured by the Russkis, but I'd guess they laughed at them.  They used the Grant tanks we sent them mostly as armored personnel carriers apparently.

The Russkis had some pretty good tanks.

very big and pretty slow but huge in numbers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 09, 2022, 11:31:47 AM

On December 8, 1932 – Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Kentucky, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Sewanee, Tennessee, Tulane, and Vanderbilt joined together to form the Southeastern Conference.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 09, 2022, 11:52:07 AM

weird history

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 09, 2022, 12:19:41 PM

And on the 6th day, GOD created...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on December 09, 2022, 12:56:33 PM

Anyone else paying attention to the World Cup?

Thrilling finish just now by Croatia versus Brazil.   Such intense momentum swings in the last few minutes.   Brazil- the favorite- is out.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 09, 2022, 01:00:10 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on December 09, 2022, 12:56:33 PM

Anyone else paying attention to the World Cup?

Thrilling finish just now by Croatia versus Brazil.  Such intense momentum swings in the last few minutes.  Brazil- the favorite- is out. 

Yeah, it's why there is a soccer thread.  I'm just pissed we don't get Spain-Portugal after England-France tomorrow due to PKs.

I think in knockout play they need to go to Golden Goal immediately, and play until someone gets one

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 09, 2022, 07:50:03 PM

Celebrity chef Alton Brown committed first-degree food assault on Nebraska Friday when he posted a video on Twitter showing him pouring chili on a cinnamon roll, a method he erroneously dubbed "#LincolnNE style!"

The video shows the Food Network star, apparently at a Runza in Lincoln, pouring chili on a cinnamon roll instead of eating it separately like a normal person.

People replying on Twitter expressed their disapproval.


https://twitter.com/altonbrown/status/1601066946971455492?s=20&t=kN58pfbquJAP0tWGezaWhA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 09, 2022, 09:29:59 PM

The Atlantic Sun and the WAC of the Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) have agreed to merge and form a 10-member football-only conference and make the jump to the FBS, according to a report from ESPN’s Pete Thamel.

Once the move is finalized, the member schools will form the 11th FBS conference.

This would be the first time since 1999, when the Mountain West was formed, that a new conference would join the FBS.

WAC football members Stephen F. Austin, Abilene Christian, Utah Tech, Southern Utah and Tarleton State will join Atlantic Sun members Austin Peay, Eastern Kentucky, Central Arkansas and North Alabama to form the newly-merged FBS conference. There is currently not a name for the new conference, but it is being referred to in the planning process as “ASUN-WAC Football.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 09, 2022, 11:41:28 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 09, 2022, 07:50:03 PM

Celebrity chef Alton Brown committed first-degree food assault on Nebraska Friday when he posted a video on Twitter showing him pouring chili on a cinnamon roll, a method he erroneously dubbed "#LincolnNE style!"

The video shows the Food Network star, apparently at a Runza in Lincoln, pouring chili on a cinnamon roll instead of eating it separately like a normal person.

People replying on Twitter expressed their disapproval.


https://twitter.com/altonbrown/status/1601066946971455492?s=20&t=kN58pfbquJAP0tWGezaWhA

No worries, no actual chili was harmed in the making of this video.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 09, 2022, 11:48:57 PM

Ya know that prolly wouldn't taste too bad - wash it down with eggnog...eating it over the sink proper.I knew holiday planning was my specialty

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 10, 2022, 12:02:37 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 09, 2022, 11:48:57 PM

Ya know that prolly wouldn't taste too bad - wash it down with eggnog...eating it over the sink proper.I knew holiday planning was my specialty

In related news, the 6.5 gallons of eggnog is made, and chilling in the refrigerator.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 10, 2022, 08:42:38 AM

HOW TO MAKE BRUNSWICK STEW
Start by heating a little oil over medium heat in a large Dutch oven or heavy stock pot.  Then add the onion and cook until tender.  Then reduce the heat and add the minced garlic cooking for 1 minute while stirring constantly.  Now stir the tomato paste with 1/4 cup of chicken broth and add it to the pot.  Then add the remaining chicken broth, diced tomatoes, frozen corn, baby limas, barbecue sauce, brown sugar, Worcestershire sauce, hot sauce, ground black pepper, crushed red pepper, and cayenne pepper.
Let it simmer for about 15 minutes.  Then add the smoked pork and chicken and let it simmer for about 5 more minutes.  If desired season with salt and pepper.  Spoon into bowls and drizzle with just a little bit more barbecue sauce.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 10, 2022, 08:48:20 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 10, 2022, 12:02:37 AM

In related news, the 6.5 gallons of eggnog is made, and chilling in the refrigerator. 

Now your just rubbing it in

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 10, 2022, 09:10:01 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 10, 2022, 08:42:38 AM

HOW TO MAKE BRUNSWICK STEW
Start by heating a little oil over medium heat in a large Dutch oven or heavy stock pot.  Then add the onion and cook until tender.  Then reduce the heat and add the minced garlic cooking for 1 minute while stirring constantly.  Now stir the tomato paste with 1/4 cup of chicken broth and add it to the pot.  Then add the remaining chicken broth, diced tomatoes, frozen corn, baby limas, barbecue sauce, brown sugar, Worcestershire sauce, hot sauce, ground black pepper, crushed red pepper, and cayenne pepper.
Let it simmer for about 15 minutes.  Then add the smoked pork and chicken and let it simmer for about 5 more minutes.  If desired season with salt and pepper.  Spoon into bowls and drizzle with just a little bit more barbecue sauce.

It sounds good.  I'd never heard of it before some of y'all started mentioning as being associated with your regional BBQ restaurants, many years ago on one of the previous incarnations of this board.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 10, 2022, 09:14:17 AM

Quote from: ELA on December 09, 2022, 12:19:41 PM

And on the 6th day, GOD created...

Let There Be ROCK!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 10, 2022, 09:23:00 AM

Yeah, Brunswick stew often is quite good, I never use BBQ sauce in it, I prefer a more vinegary style myself, but it sounds OK.  It's akin to what I call "refrigerator stew" where I clean out the leftovers and concoct something of this ilk using left over chicken, pork, celery, corn, onion, garlic, lima beans, even carrots.

Most Q places will have it around these parts.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 10, 2022, 09:53:25 AM

 Just gotta use the more vinegary style BBQ sauce

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 10, 2022, 10:18:57 AM

Eastern Carolina vinagery sauce is little more than vinegar and peppers with a dollop of brown sugar.


(https://i.imgur.com/iLFvYj8.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 10, 2022, 10:50:27 AM

no ketchup and mustard???

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61axgBa+giL._AC_UL1200_.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 10, 2022, 04:23:25 PM

My granny's brunswick stew was basically chili + corn, green beans, scalloped potatoes....and minus ground beef, replaced with shredded chicken.  Hearty and good.  Combined w/ fried cornbread (aka lattice or lace cornbread), forget it.  Perfection.
.
When I'd make chili when tailgating at Gators games, I'd throw in those veggies w/ the ground beef.  So it was kind of a cross-breed of chili and that stew.
.
In the soup/chili family, it felt like a supreme pizza sort of thing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 10, 2022, 05:48:06 PM

Mount Union played Whataburger today?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 11, 2022, 08:30:15 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 10, 2022, 04:23:25 PM

My granny's brunswick stew was basically chili + corn, green beans, scalloped potatoes....and minus ground beef, replaced with shredded chicken.  Hearty and good.  Combined w/ fried cornbread (aka lattice or lace cornbread), forget it.  Perfection.
.
When I'd make chili when tailgating at Gators games, I'd throw in those veggies w/ the ground beef.  So it was kind of a cross-breed of chili and that stew.
.
In the soup/chili family, it felt like a supreme pizza sort of thing. 

Soup and chili are not at all related and are certainly not in the same family.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2022, 08:36:56 AM

Chili con carne, meaning "chili with meat", is a spicy stew containing chili peppers, meat, tomatoes and often pinto beans or kidney beans. Other seasonings may include garlic, onions, and cumin. The dish originated in northern Mexico or southern Texas. Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chili_con_carne)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2022, 08:38:22 AM

Obviously, the term "chili" has a broad meaning depending on part of the country and general usage.  I personally would call it a kind of soup.

Soup is a primarily liquid food, generally served warm or hot, that is made by combining ingredients of meat or vegetables with stock, milk, or water. Hot soups are additionally characterized by boiling solid ingredients in liquids in a pot until the flavors are extracted, forming a broth. Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soup)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on December 11, 2022, 08:52:25 AM

Now there's a debate I've never seen on these pages.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 11, 2022, 10:14:35 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 11, 2022, 08:30:15 AM

Soup and chili are not at all related and are certainly not in the same family.

They're savory, warm, often have multiple ingredients, and eaten with a bowl & spoon.
That's a family.
Brunswick stew is also a member.  As are all stews. 
As are ramens, which would be a pasta, but are broth-based.
Gumbo is in this family as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2022, 10:17:50 AM

Gaspacho.

My wife made it a few times in summer and hers was the best I've ever tasted.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 11, 2022, 10:23:15 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 11, 2022, 10:17:50 AM

Gaspacho.

My wife made it a few times in summer and hers was the best I've ever tasted.

(https://i.imgur.com/T8WFZay.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 11, 2022, 10:55:21 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 11, 2022, 10:14:35 AM

They're savory, warm, often have multiple ingredients, and eaten with a bowl & spoon.
That's a family.
Brunswick stew is also a member.  As are all stews.
As are ramens, which would be a pasta, but are broth-based.
Gumbo is in this family as well.

Wrong.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 11, 2022, 10:59:10 AM

I have a pot of chili soup simmering

be ready for halftime on the Vikings/Lions game

not my usual competition chili

ground beef and pork, a can of Rotel, and a small can of beans - the unusual things

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 11, 2022, 11:04:52 AM

What's the Rotel for? Beans?


Your card is revoked.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 11, 2022, 11:08:08 AM

it's just some watch party soup for the fellas

my buddy the lions fan and northwestern grad is coming over to take abuse

He's in charge of the growlers

the Bronco fan is in charge of the vodka

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 11, 2022, 11:36:35 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 11, 2022, 10:59:10 AM

I have a pot of chili soup simmering

be ready for halftime on the Vikings/Lions game

not my usual competition chili

ground beef and pork, a can of Rotel, and a small can of beans - the unusual things

Please do not use the words chili and soup in the same sentence.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2022, 11:47:53 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 11, 2022, 11:36:35 AM

Please do not use the words chili and soup in the same sentence.

:93:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2022, 11:49:18 AM

The two terms I react to are "grilling" and "barbecuing".  I had a GF once talking about "barbecuing swordfish" which left me stumped.  She was from Long Island.

Soup and that C word seem, to me anyway, more relaxed broad terms.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 11, 2022, 11:59:56 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 11, 2022, 11:49:18 AM

The two terms I react to are "grilling" and "barbecuing".  I had a GF once talking about "barbecuing swordfish" which left me stumped.  She was from Long Island.

Soup and that C word seem, to me anyway, more relaxed broad terms.

you can barbecue swordfish but its probably not as good as grilling

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 11, 2022, 12:01:25 PM

Smoked salmon is a thing, but I don't think I'd call it BBQ.   Cold-smoking is a little different.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 11, 2022, 12:37:12 PM

utee is the authority on chili

and told me that what I'm making today is soup

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2022, 01:12:56 PM

I'll be making that sort of soup myself later, but no beans.

I agree smoking is not the same as barbecue.  I do like smoked salmon.  Had some in Paris that was awesome.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 11, 2022, 01:14:24 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 11, 2022, 10:55:21 AM

Wrong.

Oh, I guess you're right.  Because.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 11, 2022, 01:15:22 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 11, 2022, 11:36:35 AM

Please do not use the words chili and soup in the same sentence.

Now I KNOW I'm right.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 11, 2022, 01:30:53 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 11, 2022, 01:15:22 PM

Now I KNOW I'm right.

except when youre wrong which is most of the time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 11, 2022, 01:32:50 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 11, 2022, 12:37:12 PM

utee is the authority on chili

and told me that what I'm making today is soup

two different sentences ok that passes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 11, 2022, 01:38:03 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 11, 2022, 12:37:12 PM

utee is the authority on chili

and told me that what I'm making today is soup

indeed. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 11, 2022, 05:09:51 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 11, 2022, 01:30:53 PM

except when youre wrong which is most of the time

As long as you're the one saying this, I have supreme confidence.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 11, 2022, 05:13:15 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 11, 2022, 10:55:21 AM

Wrong.

Is it a topping?

(I'm actually just politely curious what would make it not a soup/stew. Unless it's just an immutable thing that chili is not soup, even though it often acts like soup)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 11, 2022, 05:25:58 PM

Chili is a meaty, (sometimes) beany, (varyingly) spicy tomato-based soup.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 11, 2022, 06:53:36 PM

I wouldn't say chili is tomato-based, rather it is chile-pepper based.  Many versions, including the original versions, do not include any tomato at all.

(However, I do sometimes put some roasted tomato in my own chili)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 11, 2022, 09:50:23 PM

Are Austin and San Antonio considered to be part of West Texas? Where do they draw the line? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 11, 2022, 09:54:23 PM

I guess not. 

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/authoring/2018/11/10/NLAJ/ghows-TX-7a59f18b-dde2-7974-e053-0100007f1575-d533afad.jpeg?width=660&height=607&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp)

Is this accurate, or does it require a round of revisions? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 11, 2022, 10:00:14 PM

Interesting to compare that map to the one for the fan bases. 

(https://www.theprospectordaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/ncaa-fb-texas.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 11, 2022, 10:19:31 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on December 11, 2022, 09:54:23 PM

I guess not.

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/authoring/2018/11/10/NLAJ/ghows-TX-7a59f18b-dde2-7974-e053-0100007f1575-d533afad.jpeg?width=660&height=607&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp)

Is this accurate, or does it require a round of revisions?

Looks about right.  I'd probably push Central Texas' boundary a few more counties to the West, but it's close enough.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 11, 2022, 11:43:01 PM

For someone driving through, west Texas starts as soon as San Antone is in the rear view mirror.  Because for about 700 miles, there ain't jack shit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 12, 2022, 09:29:49 AM

I think there's a certain beauty in the West Texas landscape, but towns definitely become few and far between out there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 12, 2022, 09:44:39 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/6ft47xg.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 12, 2022, 10:14:33 AM

https://twitter.com/SPARTANTIQUES/status/1602282219711643648?s=20&t=4IfxRFGgr9iYhl-0-xsEHw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 12, 2022, 01:15:49 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 12, 2022, 09:44:39 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/6ft47xg.jpg)

Is ESPN doing an hourlong show on these guys?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 12, 2022, 04:18:13 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/FogqAa4.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 12, 2022, 04:19:40 PM

the biggest reason I sold my father's jeep and didn't keep it for my daughters

they REALLY wanted it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 12, 2022, 04:38:57 PM

scaredy-cat. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 12, 2022, 04:55:05 PM

I once had to tow my lady friend's dad's fancy Wrangler Sahara with my '95 junker Grand Cherokee, which was funny.  
Those things have such a short wheelbase that it's problematic in some conditions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 12, 2022, 05:12:11 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 12, 2022, 04:19:40 PM

the biggest reason I sold my father's jeep and didn't keep it for my daughters

they REALLY wanted it

Funny story about a jeep.

When I was 16 I had an S10 (Chevy mini pickup). I stopped to warn people of a downed tree in a storm and my truck got hit and totalled.

My dad's buddy's son had a jeep for sale so dad and I went to test drive it. As it turned out, this jeep was nuts! It had a small block Chevy V8 with dual four barrel carburetors, headers, and side pipes (no real mufflers). From the sound of it, it also had a competition camshaft.

So dad and I get in, dad want to drive first. This thing was so light and had so much power that it was barely possible to start out without spinning the tires when releasing the clutch in first gear. So dad slings some gravel as we pull out of the driveway. He shifts to second, then third, then as we were approaching a stop sign dad let off the gas and I'm not kidding, flames came out of the side pipes.

Dad drives a little further then pulls into a store and we switch. Sixteen year old me REALLY wanted this jeep but I knew dad would be worried so I drove back as gingerly as possible. I pull in to the drive where we started and shut the jeep off. Dad looks at me and says "Son, you aren't buying this jeep".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 12, 2022, 05:17:04 PM

the reason I didn't keep the jeep for myself was that it had a 4-banger and an automatic tranny.  It was gutless as hell.

didn't need a V-8, but a solid 6-cyliner with good power would have been great

it was Husker red and fun to drive

even had a hardtop for winter driving

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 12, 2022, 08:26:03 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 11, 2022, 01:14:24 PM

Oh, I guess you're right.  Because. 

It's not because. It's an always thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 12, 2022, 09:00:18 PM

Oh, oh, now I see.  
:34:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 12, 2022, 09:37:41 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 12, 2022, 09:44:39 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/6ft47xg.jpg)

29. Nice.

51 is more nice. :)



(https://i.imgur.com/iJh5yve.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 12, 2022, 10:45:30 PM

turns out that the "Russian puppet" Trump was offered a Viktor Bout for Paul Whelan (the former US marine accused of espionage in Russia) swap back in 2019 and he declined- which btw- was the right move. Biden gets offered a Viktor Bout for a basketball lesbian swap and says sure Vlady no problem! El Oh El.

https://twitter.com/FaceTheNation/status/1601984046313127938?s=20&t=oHOt-YqBk1nqbHILkLe9Pg

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjfkY1tWAAMo60U?format=jpg&name=large)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 13, 2022, 11:13:48 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 12, 2022, 10:45:30 PM

turns out that the "Russian puppet" Trump was offered a Viktor Bout for Paul Whelan (the former US marine accused of espionage in Russia) swap back in 2019 and he declined- which btw- was the right move. Biden gets offered a Viktor Bout for a basketball lesbian swap and says sure Vlady no problem! El Oh El.

https://twitter.com/FaceTheNation/status/1601984046313127938?s=20&t=oHOt-YqBk1nqbHILkLe9Pg

You're just not seeing the big picture.  When Nicholas Cage plays Griner in the forthcoming film "Lord of Basketball" it will make much more sense.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 13, 2022, 01:17:54 PM

JC navigates the new media | Climate Etc. (judithcurry.com) (https://judithcurry.com/2022/12/09/jc-navigates-the-new-media/#more-29444)

Both are interesting and different from each other.  I expect there will be a follow up to the EISM interview; post interview we both realized that we had missed the most relevant topic for our interaction – risk governance.
If you only have time to watch one, watch BizNews, where the interviewer gave me pretty free reign.  This interview went viral on youtube, with 500,000 views in  7 days.  Intimations of trouble ahead were a “Context (https://www.un.org/en/climatechange/what-is-climate-change)” statement on climate change from the UN  attached to my interview, designed to tell people the “truth” about climate change (when in fact the statement describes the “truth” of UN climate politics).  On day 7, when the video hit 500,000 views, it apparently disappeared from YouTube.  Searching for “Judith Curry”, “Judith Curry climate”, “Judith Curry BizNews” did not show the video.  Now, you can only find it by searching for “BizNews TV (https://www.youtube.com/@BizNewsTV)”, and then you can find it on the channel under “Popular Videos”. (note: you can also find it from a google search of “Judith Curry BizNews”)
My BizNews interview was shadow banned by YouTube.  They didn’t completely ban it, but made it impossible to find.  If the interview had been titled “Climate Change Common Sense” instead of “Dissident Climate Scientist Judith Curry . . .” it probably wouldn’t have been banned (but it probably wouldn’t have gotten 500K views, either)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 13, 2022, 02:55:24 PM

Durham Museum

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/318861018_9107139155978472_7717598714323732707_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=HuEOaqxgKqYAX8qeCjO&tn=Dar4Cr1LQ_dl-7gk&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBB09P2lPrknkLrPkt50PqrALrV24PNbHeFPGuG5LHmFA&oe=639E679A)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on December 14, 2022, 10:55:54 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on December 11, 2022, 09:54:23 PM

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/authoring/2018/11/10/NLAJ/ghows-TX-7a59f18b-dde2-7974-e053-0100007f1575-d533afad.jpeg?width=660&height=607&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp)

Is this accurate, or does it require a round of revisions?

The above posted map is how I would mostly draw it up.

-When I once lived in East Texas it was understood going west of Tyler towards Dallas was North Texas. And going towards Tyler from Dallas it was understood you're entering East Texas.

-When I once lived in South Texas it was understood Austin was Central Texas and San Antonio was South Texas. And there was a clear dividing line somewhere between the two cities. Maybe San Marcos or New Braunfels if we want to get specific?

-I've never heard the Houston area referred to as Upper Gulf Coast. It's always just the Houston part of Texas once you're within orbit. Beaumont, Orange, and Lufkin were always East Texas but any closer to Houston and it was referred to as the Houston area, as though independent of any region. Maybe Upper Gulf Coast is a weather mapping term for Hurricane Zoning?

-My only point of question would be Lubbock. In the map Lubbock is zoned in West Texas though I've often heard Lubbock mentioned as a Panhandle town. Midland and Odessa are always West Texas town but from there going up to Lubbock was often thought of as heading to/toward the Panhandle.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 14, 2022, 11:08:57 AM

Most Atlantic states are much easier (and smaller), coastal plain, piedmont, mountains.  Florida I guess has three different areas, panhandle being one, I'd guess "central Florida" and coastal Florida.  Ohio is pretty vague, mostly defined by the three largest cities, though SE Ohio is a lot like Alabama.

PA is Philly and Pittsburg divided by Alabama...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 14, 2022, 11:35:46 AM

The regional splits in Texas are almost as much about the people and culture, as they are about geography.  That's why "South Texas" extends up the Rio Grande and includes territory that would be more like West Texas if geography were the only consideration. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 14, 2022, 11:43:08 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 14, 2022, 11:08:57 AM

Most Atlantic states are much easier (and smaller), coastal plain, piedmont, mountains.  Florida I guess has three different areas, panhandle being one, I'd guess "central Florida" and coastal Florida.  Ohio is pretty vague, mostly defined by the three largest cities, though SE Ohio is a lot like Alabama.

PA is Philly and Pittsburg divided by Alabama...

6 really, to me. Central, South, Southwest, Keys, Northeast, and Panhandle. 

SW is Sarasota down to Marco, West of Lake O. South is Port St. Lucie (??) down past Miami. Other versions are out there (many).


(https://i.imgur.com/27So7od.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 14, 2022, 11:46:54 AM

nursing regions??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: TyphonInc on December 14, 2022, 11:50:03 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on December 11, 2022, 09:54:23 PM

I guess not.

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/authoring/2018/11/10/NLAJ/ghows-TX-7a59f18b-dde2-7974-e053-0100007f1575-d533afad.jpeg?width=660&height=607&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp)

Is this accurate, or does it require a round of revisions?

Not from Texas, and only visited there half a dozen times so feel free to null and void any comments I make.

I thought the Pan Handle region of Texas went a lot further south, like to almost the 90 degree bend. And googling the regions of Texas some of those maps show that.
When I was in Austin the weather man Called Houston and all the Gulf counties south of it as "The Gulf Region" (At least to Corpus Christi.)

Here is a map of how I recall the pan handle and gulf regions according to Austin News 15 years ago.

(https://rvtexasyall.com/images/map/texas-regions-main.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 14, 2022, 11:52:57 AM

The city of Beaumont and surrounding region is definitely referred to as Southeast Texas, and nobody here would say "East Texas" extends that far south. 

The Amarillo area is weird.  Everybody I've ever known from that area (not that many, just a few) refer to it as West Texas, even though us Louisianans always called it the panhandle.  I'd tell them West Texas should be El Paso and Odessa, etc, and they just say "Yeah, I know, but it's what everybody calls it."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 14, 2022, 11:59:18 AM

Quote from: TyphonInc on December 14, 2022, 11:50:03 AM

(https://rvtexasyall.com/images/map/texas-regions-main.jpg)

This one works, too.  It's making both geographical/topographical distinctions (like separating the Hill Country out of CenTex/WestTex/SouthTex) and cultural distinctions (like separating out the Gulf Coast from South Texas, and giving the Rio Grande Valley its own designation).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 14, 2022, 12:05:32 PM

don't look like much of a panhandle

now, THAT's a panhandle........

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/BUcAAOSwU9xUOar1/s-l1600.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 14, 2022, 12:06:14 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 14, 2022, 11:52:57 AM

The city of Beaumont and surrounding region is definitely referred to as Southeast Texas, and nobody here would say "East Texas" extends that far south. 

The Amarillo area is weird.  Everybody I've ever known from that area (not that many, just a few) refer to it as West Texas, even though us Louisianans always called it the panhandle.  I'd tell them West Texas should be El Paso and Odessa, etc, and they just say "Yeah, I know, but it's what everybody calls it."

You ever heard what Janis Joplin had to say about Beaumont? :)

Personally I consider both Lubbock and Amarillo to be panhandle and not West Texas, but you're right, lots of the people living there refer to it as West Texas.  Culturally the two regions are very similar, and geographically they're somewhat similar.  Aside from providing driving directions, I'm not sure any distinction is all that relevant.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 14, 2022, 12:08:58 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 14, 2022, 12:05:32 PM

don't look like much of a panhandle

Yeah I'd say that map has the panhandle coming too far down.  San Angelo, Abilene, and Big Spring, are NOT panhandle IMO.

But like I said, culturally and geographically there's not much difference.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on December 14, 2022, 12:36:00 PM

Having spent the summer of 82 in hell, working on job putting hot tar roofs on aircraft hangers at Randolf Air Force base, all I can say is that Texas is hotter than hell, regardless of region. And when you drive from San Antonio to Ohio, half of the trip seemed just to be getting out of Texas. No state should be that big. :)

A couple of friends and I, took a road trip from San Antonio to Brownsville one day, or should I say the better part of 2 days. God that was a longer drive than I was told it would be. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 14, 2022, 12:38:17 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 14, 2022, 11:46:54 AM

nursing regions??

Like I said.. lots of versions. Google Florida Golf Regions and there will be a map or 50.

This is also very real:

(https://i.imgur.com/bIk9OLg.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 14, 2022, 12:41:20 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 14, 2022, 12:38:17 PM

Like I said.. lots of versions. Google Florida Golf Regions and there will be a map or 50.

This is also very real:

(https://i.imgur.com/bIk9OLg.png)

that is 100% true lol

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 14, 2022, 12:42:44 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 13, 2022, 11:13:48 AM

You're just not seeing the big picture.  When Nicholas Cage plays Griner in the forthcoming film "Lord of Basketball" it will make much more sense. 

Lol. Nic Cage is an awesome actor. I'd watch that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 14, 2022, 01:26:48 PM

Train to nowhere: can California’s high-speed rail project ever get back on track? | California | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/may/29/california-high-speed-rail-bullet-train)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 14, 2022, 01:35:57 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 14, 2022, 12:06:14 PM

You ever heard what Janis Joplin had to say about Beaumont? :)

Who knows what that slurred speech in perpetual drunken stupors said, but its probably negative and I'd probably agree with her.  Not a lot to like here, imo, other than the state of Texas offers some perks no matter where you are in it.  

There's a SETX rock museum that is super proud of her, even if she's not proud of here.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 14, 2022, 01:51:43 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 14, 2022, 01:26:48 PM

Train to nowhere: can California’s high-speed rail project ever get back on track? | California | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/may/29/california-high-speed-rail-bullet-train)

nope. cause California sucks. Florida has high speed rail. Florida is better than California. :)

The connection from West Palm to Orlando is almost complete, supposedly will hit average of 125+ MPH on that stretch, next phase will be Orlando to Tampa. SUCK it California.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 14, 2022, 01:52:48 PM

just read the article....California spent $5 billion on this and hasn't laid a single mile of track in 14 years. :043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 14, 2022, 02:50:35 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 14, 2022, 01:52:48 PM

just read the article....California sent $5 billion to greedy folks and hasn't laid a single mile of track in 14 years. :043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 14, 2022, 03:17:32 PM

If they can electrify the other existing lines north and south, the should be able to run trains connecting SF and LA at normal rates, 79 mph, likely somewhat faster on the new portions built for true high speed.  I doubt this attracts much traffic, but it would be something of a something.  Mebbe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on December 14, 2022, 03:49:12 PM

I’ve lived in Texas my whole life and I think what areas you consider what largely depend on where you live and your experiences. For myself, we would never call our area East Texas. Because East Texas has pine trees and hills. I’m in SE Texas. Which is mostly flatlands and coastal prairies. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 14, 2022, 04:00:56 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 14, 2022, 01:51:43 PM

nope. cause California sucks. Florida has high speed rail. Florida is better than California. :)

The connection from West Palm to Orlando is almost complete, supposedly will hit average of 125+ MPH on that stretch, next phase will be Orlando to Tampa. SUCK it California.

I'd like to see a loop from Tampa to West Palm after that one is done. They could go right down the center of Route 80 for most of the stretch from Ft. Myers to West Palm and use I-75 from Tampa to Fort Myers. Minimal right of way costs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 14, 2022, 04:05:47 PM

I have a notion that autonomous private vehicles will make HSR irrelevant.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 14, 2022, 04:09:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 14, 2022, 04:05:47 PM

I have a notion that autonomous private vehicles will make HSR irrelevant.

Well, if I could get from Austin to Dallas in 45 minutes instead of 3 hours, I'd see some value in that.  It would obviously depend on the cost of the HSR passage, though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 14, 2022, 04:14:52 PM

my brother would still be in Round Rock

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 14, 2022, 04:16:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 14, 2022, 04:05:47 PM

I have a notion that autonomous private vehicles will make HSR irrelevant.

yup, I'm sure the politicians will find a way to launder $$$ through autonomous private vehicles

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 14, 2022, 04:25:16 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 14, 2022, 01:52:48 PM

just read the article....California spent $5 billion on this and hasn't laid a single mile of track in 14 years. :043:

Ya know, it's not really funny,someone should get shot for it.I have a few ideas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 14, 2022, 04:52:30 PM

a few folks trying to blow the whistle probably did get shot for it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 14, 2022, 05:24:38 PM

Hmm isn't pelosi the longest serving member from Cali - they should start digging right there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SFBadger96 on December 14, 2022, 06:01:48 PM

The HSR is a state law creation. The Feds have next to nothing to do with it (except that the State wants more money from the feds). So for people opposed to HSR in California, they should hail Pelosi as a hero for not dedicating a ton of money to it from the federal budget (which is what the state was expecting).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 14, 2022, 06:26:39 PM

https://hsr.ca.gov/2021/06/11/statements-fy10-settlement-federal-funding/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 15, 2022, 06:55:51 AM

HSR will work in Florida, as most people who move here are from places with rail services.

I would use it a lot, for sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 15, 2022, 08:01:02 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 15, 2022, 06:55:51 AM

HSR will work in Florida, as most people who move here are from places with rail services.

I would use it a lot, for sure.

I've used the Brightline plenty already. It's definitely worth it for a day trip down to Miami just to avoid the horrific soul crushing traffic. I'll probably be taking it to Orlando every once in awhile once that route opens.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 15, 2022, 08:34:11 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 15, 2022, 08:01:02 AM

I've used the Brightline plenty already. It's definitely worth it for a day trip down to Miami just to avoid the horrific soul crushing traffic. I'll probably be taking it to Orlando every once in awhile once that route opens.

When we lived in Chicago, we'd fly to Miami to get on cruises. After the cruises, we'd take the cruise shuttle to MIA and get on the Brightline. We have friends in West Palm, so we'd visit them before heading back to Chicago, from PBI.

So much better to fly PBI over MIA or FLL.

When we lived in Chicago, we used rail a LOT. I used to have an office downtown, so it was the way to go for sure. We lived 2 blocks from a train station, which was even better.

Would love to be able to get to Miami and Fort via rail. Driving Alligator Alley really... sucks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2022, 09:23:09 AM

Brightline is barely HSR, as defined with a speed of at least 125 mph.  But really, that speed is adequate, and the cost of going 250 mph is really high.

If you have at grade crossings, you are limited to 79 mph max, and lower in congested areas.

The Accela line in the NE works pretty well at 125 mph.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on December 15, 2022, 10:37:07 AM

Autonomous vehicles have been proclaimed as the solution to traffic jams for 30 years. Elon is finding out the hard way that autonomous in the field is a lot harder than it looks. Besides, it doesn't change the real estate problem.

(https://external-preview.redd.it/_tHsbDTOsba1DzUIF-oevlfZt4eQt6ufvF5USgMHSqA.jpg?auto=webp&v=enabled&s=739b0d0d6ffda231fcbd7d0d7534a0dcb72da21c)com/r/gifs/sCvRIEd

The only place autonomous works smashingly well is on fixed, grade-separated guideways. See a bunch of airport shuttles and the Vancouver SkyTrain.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2022, 10:39:52 AM

Autonmous should improve the traffic density on freeways, and could plausibly allow much higher speeds.  I can't see Americans abandoning their private vehicles.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 15, 2022, 10:41:41 AM

And buses have been proclaimed as the solution to traffic jams for a lot more than 30 years.

But in a lot of geos, people simply don't want to ride them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 15, 2022, 10:43:02 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 15, 2022, 10:41:41 AM

And buses have been proclaimed as the solution to traffic jams for a lot more than 30 years.

But in a lot of geos, people simply don't want to ride them.

Too dangerous now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 15, 2022, 10:47:48 AM

the more things change, the more they stay the same

better to throw a trillion at the HSR in Cali

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2022, 10:55:27 AM

I can't think of a major project in the US so obviously wrong that still survives (aside from weapons development).  "We" usually cut our losses.

They will end up with a very fancy high speed line in the middle of nowhere with at best slow connecting lines to the major cities.

This has been obvious for many years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2022, 11:00:30 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/nSXghcR.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 15, 2022, 11:03:13 AM

in order of all-time wins or all-time winning percentage?

WTF?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 15, 2022, 11:11:24 AM

Football talk on the In Other News thread? What is this world coming to???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 15, 2022, 11:14:46 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 15, 2022, 11:11:24 AM

Football talk on the In Other News thread? What is this world coming to???

I posted that very same graphic on the B1G 2022 season thread. Not sure why it was posted here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 15, 2022, 11:18:07 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 15, 2022, 10:55:27 AM

I can't think of a major project in the US so obviously wrong that still survives (aside from weapons development).  "We" usually cut our losses.

They will end up with a very fancy high speed line in the middle of nowhere with at best slow connecting lines to the major cities.

This has been obvious for many years.

(https://media-exp1.licdn.com/dms/image/C5112AQEQ30-aO9kHsA/article-cover_image-shrink_720_1280/0/1520178444146?e=2147483647&v=beta&t=tYxUarvYV0QaIWsXbRr39RYTlLZiwfntecG1-6NBdhE)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 15, 2022, 11:20:09 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 15, 2022, 11:14:46 AM

I posted that very same graphic on the B1G 2022 season thread. Not sure why it was posted here.

spam

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 15, 2022, 11:23:38 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 15, 2022, 08:34:11 AM

When we lived in Chicago, we'd fly to Miami to get on cruises. After the cruises, we'd take the cruise shuttle to MIA and get on the Brightline. We have friends in West Palm, so we'd visit them before heading back to Chicago, from PBI.

So much better to fly PBI over MIA or FLL.

When we lived in Chicago, we used rail a LOT. I used to have an office downtown, so it was the way to go for sure. We lived 2 blocks from a train station, which was even better.

Would love to be able to get to Miami and Fort via rail. Driving Alligator Alley really... sucks.

I love the Brightline man the trains are immaculate and super nice and the stations are all gorgeous. The stations in Boca and Aventura are opening next week on the 21st. Orlando is suppose to open sometime in Q1 of 2023. There is only one station in Orlando now, there was suppose to be two stations in Orlando, one at MCO and another at Disney Springs but Mickey Mouse pulled out of the deal at the last second. F that damn rat.

PBI is clutch. That's the best airport ever. Almost like flying private- no lines in and out. I literally used to be able to get to that airport like 30 mins before a flight and still make it back in the day. Problem with PBI now is they cut a ton of the routes and it's mostly seasonal now. Back in the day they had way more routes and they were all year round. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 15, 2022, 11:25:22 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 15, 2022, 09:23:09 AM

Brightline is barely HSR, as defined with a speed of at least 125 mph.  But really, that speed is adequate, and the cost of going 250 mph is really high.

If you have at grade crossings, you are limited to 79 mph max, and lower in congested areas.

The Accela line in the NE works pretty well at 125 mph.

believe the WPB to Miami route averages around 79-80mph and that is in large part bc of all the congestion- there is just a shitload of people living in that corridor and it's not very many miles of a stretch- maybe 60 or something like that. 

I believe the WPB to Orlando route will average 125mph however, which is considered HSR. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 15, 2022, 11:27:48 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 15, 2022, 11:23:38 AM

I love the Brightline man the trains are immaculate and super nice and the stations are all gorgeous. The stations in Boca and Aventura are opening next week on the 21st. Orlando is suppose to open sometime in Q1 of 2023. There is only one station in Orlando now, there was suppose to be two stations in Orlando, one at MCO and another at Disney Springs but Mickey Mouse pulled out of the deal at the last second. F that damn rat.

PBI is clutch. That's the best airport ever. Almost like flying private- no lines in and out. I literally used to be able to get to that airport like 30 mins before a flight and still make it back in the day. Problem with PBI now is they cut a ton of the routes and it's mostly seasonal now. Back in the day they had way more routes and they were all year round.

When did they make the cuts? Covid?

I never had a problem getting an AA flight to ORD in the past. Probably did it 6-7 times.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 15, 2022, 11:38:50 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 15, 2022, 11:27:48 AM

When did they make the cuts? Covid?

I never had a problem getting an AA flight to ORD in the past. Probably did it 6-7 times.

years before that. I want to say more than 10 years ago? They basically used to have direct flights year round to basically every major city. I used to go to Detroit at least 3-4 times a year out of there. Then most the flights started having stops or some airlines were only seasonal from Nov/Dec to April. I really hate stops- have to do direct flights unless it's just not possible. Pretty much have been flying out of FLL exclusively since. I basically refuse to fly out of Miami- that airport might be the worst airport ever. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 15, 2022, 11:46:59 AM

LAX is the worst. Newark is close.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2022, 12:07:28 PM

The worst airports in my experience include DeGaulle and Toronto.  I've only been to the latter once, it was amazingly horrible.

It was akin to being in a hospital that had eight additions to it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 15, 2022, 12:19:49 PM

I didn't enjoy the airport in Mexico City

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 15, 2022, 01:02:13 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 15, 2022, 12:19:49 PM

I didn't enjoy the airport in Mexico City

how'd you enjoy the food though? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 15, 2022, 02:03:26 PM

didn't eat at the airport or in the city

went straight to the resort area on the beach

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on December 15, 2022, 02:06:16 PM

Everyone to a man who has transited CDG has sworn up and down to avoid that place at all costs, even more than O'Hare.

The flow into and around LAX will improve once the people mover opens.

LaGuardia and Newark are the worst for want of connection to Manhattan.

You must have flown into Pearson. My only flight into Toronto was into City Airport, which is small and very easy to get into and out of.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 15, 2022, 02:32:41 PM

I didn't hate Newark actually.  Only flew through there once.

It's not much to look at, but I've never had a bad experience with Logan

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 15, 2022, 02:35:04 PM

CDG is bad.

Heathrow is bad.

My favorite airport anywhere in the world, is John Wayne in Orange County, CA.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2022, 02:44:23 PM

We flew into Toronto from Copenhagen and had a shortish connection with customs and whatnot.  The directions as to where to go were "obscure" and we walked a long distance.  The PA was informing us we had to wear masks but hardly anyone was doing it.  The airport was dirty in general and had a lot of quasi-construction sites with no work happening.  We finally asked a couple people and got directed, they said the signs were no help.  We walked and walked and made out gate, if you could call it that, they had space for about ten people to sit with a 737 to ATL about to leave, except it wasn't.  It was delayed, OK, we walked around some more, there were hardly any shops open anywhere near that "gate".  It was like the back end of nowhere.

CDG has gotten a little better now departing.  But arriving is a mess, from the US anyway.   Delta seems to get the gate from hell.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2022, 02:46:00 PM

Oh, and waiting in the line for customs, I was called out for a "special check", which was OK, and then another "cop" called me out once again for the same check, and they both were surly.  I didn't say a word except short responses to questions.  They pulled out my camera gear and made a mess while my wife had already gone through, so I had to put it all back properly with the guy snarling at me to move along.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 15, 2022, 08:37:16 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 12, 2022, 09:37:41 PM

29. Nice.

51 is more nice. :)



(https://i.imgur.com/iJh5yve.jpg)

Nebraska had a total of 105 student-athletes earn Academic All-Big Ten recognition for the fall semester as announced by the Conference Office on Thursday.

The group of Husker student-athletes includes 58 football players, 14 soccer student-athletes, 10 members of the volleyball program, 14 women's cross country student-athletes and nine men's cross country athletes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 15, 2022, 10:16:27 PM

Everyone is smart.  Let's drop football and add quiz bowl 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 15, 2022, 10:38:01 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 15, 2022, 02:35:04 PM

CDG is bad.

Heathrow is bad.

My favorite airport anywhere in the world, is John Wayne in Orange County, CA.

I'll share this story because laws have changed and it was years ago.

The only time I when through John Wayne was in HS going to some kind of HS nerd gathering (someone said it was fun). A friend wanted to bring pot. He included a few dime bags in a checked bag, packed in a jar of coffee to dissuade dogs from sniffing. 

He was so freaked out that he thought he should just abandon the bag at the airport. We didn't realize that the little sticker on your luggage had your name on it. He ended up grabbing the bag. No one caught him.

On the downside, the depressurized luggage compartment popped the jar open (it was one of those plastic Folgers jars). So the bag was just full of coffee grounds. Then we spend every night of the trip smoking from a homemade bong and ordering discount Domino's. Also got to go to a theme park. Solid trip overall. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 15, 2022, 10:57:15 PM

Quote from: ELA on December 15, 2022, 10:16:27 PM

Everyone is smart.  Let's drop football and add quiz bowl

I assume the Northwestern Football team lead the conference
AND they would win the quiz bowl

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 15, 2022, 11:09:42 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 15, 2022, 10:57:15 PM

I assume the Northwestern Football team lead the conference
AND they would win the quiz bowl

No, the Northwestern football team has the same admissions as everyone else.  But it's an excuse that has kept Pat Fitzgerald safe.

Hell, every scholarship kid in the Big Ten could play at Harvard, if they wanted to pay their own way

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 16, 2022, 12:57:48 AM

The Detroit airport rules. 

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dhbc227UwAYVHwX.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 16, 2022, 07:42:03 AM

Quote from: ELA on December 15, 2022, 11:09:42 PM

No, the Northwestern football team has the same admissions as everyone else.  But it's an excuse that has kept Pat Fitzgerald safe.

Hell, every scholarship kid in the Big Ten could play at Harvard, if they wanted to pay their own way

Not true.

In the conference, only NU, Illinois and UW hamper themselves with stricter requirements than the NCAA prescribes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on December 16, 2022, 08:28:57 AM

DTW also has a Coney Island that may or may not be open. It's a nice airport to transit through, now that both terminals are basically brand new.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 16, 2022, 09:20:29 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 16, 2022, 07:42:03 AM

Not true.

In the conference, only NU, Illinois and UW hamper themselves with stricter requirements than the NCAA prescribes.

And yet I know kids who have gotten in through football at those schools, who didn't at other Big Ten schools 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 16, 2022, 09:26:38 AM

Not under the past couple of administrations at UW. 

The days of King Barry getting favors (think Brent Moss, Johnny Clay) are in the distant past now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 16, 2022, 09:30:28 AM

Johnny Clay would line up with the time frame

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 16, 2022, 09:35:26 AM

Quote from: ELA on December 16, 2022, 09:30:28 AM

Johnny Clay would line up with the time frame

I highlighted the change below. After Ward came Becky the Goopher. That was the end.


(https://i.imgur.com/AyTt5Iy.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 16, 2022, 09:39:49 AM

fun hater!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2022, 09:17:04 AM

An elite Russian military brigade suffered so many losses while fighting in Ukraine that it was essentially "wiped out" and is expected to take a long time to rebuild, according to a new report.

When it was first sent into Ukraine, the 200th Separate Motor Rifle Brigade, stationed in northwestern Russia near its border with NATO-leaning Finland, had more experience, newer equipment, and better training than many other Russian units, The Washington Post reported on Friday. 

But despite these advantages, the 200th suffered greatly in the months of combat that would follow.

Shortly after the invasion, units belonging to the 200th were attacked and ambushed, leaving numerous soldiers dead and equipment abandoned, according to the report. 

The 200th spent the following weeks defending positions in the Kharkiv region and fending off Ukrainian attacks. By late May, documents obtained by the Post revealed, hundreds of soldiers had been lost in Ukraine from two battalion tactical groups. Several months later, the 200th was routed during Ukraine's lightning counteroffensive in the northeast Kharkiv region

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 09:26:47 AM

Behind The Scenes Of The World's Busiest Airport [4K] | Secret Life of Airports | Spark - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCgFXE17U3U)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2022, 09:51:21 AM

maybe they can't afford to move to Texas???

____________________________________________

Wealthy Los Angeles homeowners with an eye on selling their homes are reeling over a new “mansion tax” that could put them on the hook for millions of dollars as part of an effort to aid the homeless, realtors say.

Thanks to the passage of United to House LA, any resident selling their mansion at $5 million and above starting April 1, 2023, will pay a transfer tax of up to 5.5%. This means a $10 million home sale would equate to $550,000 in taxes — the price of a brand-new home in many states other than California.

Proponents hope to raise between $600 million and $1 billion a year to fund affordable housing for the homeless and low-income earners.

“About 32% of City renters are severely cost-burdened, meaning they spend over 50% of their income on rent,” the initiative said. “As families overspend on housing costs, they have less in their budget for health care, childcare, education, healthy food, savings and retirement, and other household costs.”

On Nov. 8, 58% of Los Angeles voters agreed that the wealthy should pay to fix the situation. Now, homeowners are scrambling to find ways to avoid the pricey new penalty, realtors told the Los Angeles Times.


“Rich people are very clever. They know how to manage cash, and they have time to look for loopholes,” said Bret Parsons, an agent at the Compass real estate company

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 10:11:54 AM

Man, what a mess they have out there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 17, 2022, 10:18:49 AM

just get out now let the shit hole slide or crash into the sea.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 17, 2022, 10:19:26 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 17, 2022, 09:51:21 AM

maybe they can't afford to move to Texas???

____________________________________________

Yes!  I am strongly in favor of this Mansion Tax!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 17, 2022, 10:20:38 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 17, 2022, 09:17:04 AM

An elite Russian military brigade suffered so many losses while fighting in Ukraine that it was essentially "wiped out" and is expected to take a long time to rebuild, according to a new report.

When it was first sent into Ukraine, the 200th Separate Motor Rifle Brigade, stationed in northwestern Russia near its border with NATO-leaning Finland, had more experience, newer equipment, and better training than many other Russian units, The Washington Post reported on Friday.

But despite these advantages, the 200th suffered greatly in the months of combat that would follow.

Shortly after the invasion, units belonging to the 200th were attacked and ambushed, leaving numerous soldiers dead and equipment abandoned, according to the report. 

The 200th spent the following weeks defending positions in the Kharkiv region and fending off Ukrainian attacks. By late May, documents obtained by the Post revealed, hundreds of soldiers had been lost in Ukraine from two battalion tactical groups. Several months later, the 200th was routed during Ukraine's lightning counteroffensive in the northeast Kharkiv region

(https://i.imgur.com/XVF9iui.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 10:21:03 AM

A problem is that a fair number of homeless do not want to live in an apartment of any sort.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 10:21:57 AM

I really don't understand this. Racially motivated? Requiring presenting an ID is racist? 

An ID is required for practically ANYTHING in life. An acceptable ID is very easy to get. 

NC Supreme Court strikes down voter ID constitutional amendment | The Hill (https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/3778257-nc-supreme-court-strikes-down-voter-id-constitutional-amendment/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 10:22:35 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 17, 2022, 10:19:26 AM

Yes!  I am strongly in favor of this Mansion Tax!

Me three!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2022, 10:34:33 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 10:21:57 AM

I really don't understand this. Racially motivated? Requiring presenting an ID is racist?

An ID is required for practically ANYTHING in life. An acceptable ID is very easy to get.

NC Supreme Court strikes down voter ID constitutional amendment | The Hill (https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/3778257-nc-supreme-court-strikes-down-voter-id-constitutional-amendment/)

well, practically ANYTHING in life is racist

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 17, 2022, 10:41:11 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 10:21:57 AM

I really don't understand this. Racially motivated? Requiring presenting an ID is racist?

An ID is required for practically ANYTHING in life. An acceptable ID is very easy to get.

NC Supreme Court strikes down voter ID constitutional amendment | The Hill (https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/3778257-nc-supreme-court-strikes-down-voter-id-constitutional-amendment/)

I've  always had to show my ID when I vote.  I didn't know there was any other way until the past decade or so when I started hearing of protests over it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2022, 10:45:01 AM

me too and I live in a town of 250 people

everyone at the voting station knows me by name

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2022, 10:50:33 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 10:21:57 AM

I really don't understand this. Racially motivated? Requiring presenting an ID is racist?

An ID is required for practically ANYTHING in life. An acceptable ID is very easy to get.

NC Supreme Court strikes down voter ID constitutional amendment | The Hill (https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/3778257-nc-supreme-court-strikes-down-voter-id-constitutional-amendment/)

Is it free?
Can they send it to you?
If not, it's not easy to get if you work all day and can't afford to take any time off.  
Duh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 10:53:46 AM

If you have a Georgia Drivers License number or ID card issued by the GA Department of Driver Services with a signature on file with DDS, you can register to vote online! (https://registertovote.sos.ga.gov/GAOLVR/welcometoga.do#no-back-button)

If you are a first time voter, and returning the registration form by mail, you must submit one form of ID below unless you provide your Georgia's driver's license/ID number (or the last 4 digits of your social security number if you do not have a driver's license/ID number) on the form and your ID is verified with a state database, or you are entitled to vote by absentee ballot under the Uniform and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting act.

Acceptable items of ID are:

• Valid Georgia driver's license
• Copy of a current and valid ID
• Copy of a current utility bill, bank statement, government check, paycheck, or other government document that shows your name and address

You can register by mailing a copy of your identification with your voter registration application; providing a copy of your identification to the registrar during the absentee voting process; or by showing one of the pieces of acceptable identification when voting at your polling place.


This is the Georgia law, it seems to provide a pretty reasonable alternative to getting said photo ID.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 11:05:58 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2022, 10:50:33 AM

Is it free?
Can they send it to you?
If not, it's not easy to get if you work all day and can't afford to take any time off. 
Duh.

My experience has been in Illinois, Wisconsin and Florida.

Generally, they cost $10-25.

For renewals, generally Yes. In some states, you can do everything online, including new applications.

Many facilities are open on weekends. Of course, to get a job, most places require an ID...

Duh is right.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on December 17, 2022, 11:13:30 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 11:05:58 AM

My experience has been in Illinois, Wisconsin and Florida.

Generally, they cost $10-25.

For renewals, generally Yes. In some states, you can do everything online, including new applications.

Many facilities are open on weekends. Of course, to get a job, most places require an ID...

Duh is right.

Requiring an ID to validate who you are.  Interesting.  To drive a car.  To purchase alcohol or tobacco. To join the military. To check in to the majority of hospitals or doctors offices.  The list is virtually endless.

But not to vote.  You just have to laugh.

Why debate it badge.  It’s just further evidence of the lunacy that surrounds us.

The best part of it is- virtually nobody pushing that narrative- that is racist.l, actually believes it. Nobody.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 11:14:46 AM

We have Jim Crow II here, though the turnout in the last election set records, probably because only white people could vote.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 11:15:29 AM

My opinion on this is that it is a partisan talking point, just as there is one on the Right as well.  It's something claimed to divide people into groups and get them incensed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 11:18:10 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 11:15:29 AM

My opinion on this is that it is a partisan talking point, just as there is one on the Right as well.  It's something claimed to divide people into groups and get them incensed.

It should not be, like so many other fabricated "issues" we have flying around out there.

I know I'm not incensed. Flabbergasted is more like it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2022, 11:21:05 AM

Obtaining an ID isn't as easy as many would like

most people like simply pushing the "Easy Button" from Staples

how easy is it to get an "easy Button" from Staples?  I don't have one.

I'd guess life would be more difficult w/o an ID.

More difficult than the effort to get an ID

people that would rather make life difficult instead of making the effort to get an ID......... Fing DUH!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 11:21:42 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on December 17, 2022, 11:13:30 AM

Requiring an ID to validate who you are.  Interesting.  To drive a car.  To purchase alcohol or tobacco. To join the military. To check in to the majority of hospitals or doctors offices.  The list is virtually endless.

But not to vote.  You just have to laugh.

Why debate it badge.  It’s just further evidence of the lunacy that surrounds us.

The best part of it is- virtually nobody pushing that narrative- that is racist.l, actually believes it. Nobody.

Exactly.

This policy has me flabbergasted.

Should being able to vote be as hard as buying a firearm?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 17, 2022, 11:21:53 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 11:15:29 AM

My opinion on this is that it is a partisan talking point, just as there is one on the Right as well.  It's something claimed to divide people into groups and get them incensed.

I dont understand how a state wanting to make sure a voter is who they are supposed to be a partisan talking point

calling this racist is very much a partisan talking point

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on December 17, 2022, 11:23:57 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 11:15:29 AM

My opinion on this is that it is a partisan talking point, just as there is one on the Right as well.  It's something claimed to divide people into groups and get them incensed.

True However, it was introduced as a Supreme Court decision in this thread by 847. 

Not as a partisan talking point.  As a matter of policy and law.

So- when you strip away Partisan talking points you still must decide if you think this policy and law is proper and correct or not.  Like everyone else you are entitled to your own opinion.

To me- it is laughable. But if you think otherwise I respect it. There is no remotely credible basis for it. There is plenty of common sense basis for the opposing view.  Very few things are that clear. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 11:26:30 AM

I think fake voters voting is a partisan issue, not a real issue.  I don't mind requiring ID, but I really do not think many go out of their way to vote without one.

Harvesting happens, as it always has.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 11:31:50 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on December 17, 2022, 11:23:57 AM

True However, it was introduced as a Supreme Court decision in this thread by 847. 

Not as a partisan talking point.  As a matter of policy and law.

So- when you strip away Partisan talking points you still must decide if you think this policy and law is proper and correct or not.  Like everyone else you are entitled to your own opinion.

To me- it is laughable. But if you think otherwise I respect it. There is no remotely credible basis for it. There is plenty of common sense basis for the opposing view.  Very few things are that clear. 

Correct.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on December 17, 2022, 11:32:29 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 11:26:30 AM

I think fake voters voting is a partisan issue, not a real issue.  I don't mind requiring ID, but I really do not think many go out of their way to vote without one.

Harvesting happens, as it always has.

Interesting CD.  

So, ballot harvesting in combination with late changing ( by judiciary means versus legislative)
laws that allow ballots counted without not only ID required ( like Georgia you mentioned), but not even requiring an attempt at validation / is ok with you?  You don’t think that is, and has been a recipe for Major fraudulent voting?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 11:33:42 AM

I can't see a single individual showing up to vote illegally often at all.  Same with illegals, it probably happens some out of confusion.

Ballot harvesting does happen, often, and usually to sway local elections.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on December 17, 2022, 11:37:28 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 11:33:42 AM

I can't see a single individual showing up to vote illegally often at all.  Same with illegals, it probably happens some out of confusion.

Ballot harvesting does happen, often, and usually to sway local elections.

Yes I’m not debating those who show up to vote.

so if the Michigan Democratic Party mails out 1 million ballots to Detroit residence who they believe are registered Democrats, then hires and pays for Democratic ballot harvesting firms to go out and collect those ballots, And they bring 800,000 of them back, do you believe that a meaningful percentage of those 800,000 ballots were actually ever completed by the party who received them in the mail?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 11:39:59 AM

I don't know how a political party would be able to mail out actual ballots.

I had not read anything about that.  Ballots here are coded so a fake ballot would get tossed by the machine.

Fake ballots should be illegal, I agree with that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on December 17, 2022, 11:46:24 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 11:39:59 AM

I don't know how a political party would be able to mail out actual ballots.

I had not read anything about that.  Ballots here are coded so a fake ballot would get tossed by the machine.

Fake ballots should be illegal, I agree with that.

The ballots are real.  They are mailed out to people who are, or were residents of the City. 
Ballot Harvesters are PAID to collect them by knocking on doors, even “ encouraging “ residents to properly complete them. 
These harvested ballots are brought in, often on Election Day, by the van load. 
In most large cities, there is no real attempt to validate them. They are counted.

One party has mastered this process, and continues to push for more of it and even looser validation, dates of acceptance, etc.  Why do you think that is the case?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 17, 2022, 12:19:37 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 10:21:57 AM

I really don't understand this. Racially motivated? Requiring presenting an ID is racist?

An ID is required for practically ANYTHING in life. An acceptable ID is very easy to get.

NC Supreme Court strikes down voter ID constitutional amendment | The Hill (https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/3778257-nc-supreme-court-strikes-down-voter-id-constitutional-amendment/)

My man, you must love long trips on public buses and sitting for hours in the DMV


Hmmm. Reading through, the decision seems a stretch. Racially motivated seems to mean politically motivated, with race as sort of a proxy. One could argue the angling of the decision has either political or racial motivations. They also fall back on the state's history of this sort of funny business when if comes to suppressing the black vote (turned out "voter fraud" was a big issue in the 50s and 60s too). 

I find myself at a middle. On the one hand, voter ID seems mostly benign. On the other, these laws seem to address a problem that is yet pretty unproven, and seems like it would potentially burden some people. On the other, it seems like the some of the workarounds should work fine. On the other, I'm skeptical this isn't motivated by a bit of a power grab, but I suppose I should also be skeptical that an expanded franchise doesn't potentially help one party over another (layers of funny business, I suppose). The No. 1 thing I can't figure out is what happens if you try to vote without an ID. I had to give mine, as did everyone around me. 

The No. 1 thing I'd be interested in is how many people are actually voting without an ID. We know who votes in each election. We have a big list of various forms of ID. I assume a proponent of ID laws would want to demonstrate the number of questionable votes. Though if it was low, perhaps not. Also perhaps not if there was a worry that group would be analyzed in some way that made the enterprise look bad. 

The timing element is interesting. The Supreme Court is gonna flip. There's no super majority in the legislature and a split between legislature and governor. So this would likely be on hold until 2024. Such is life in that arena. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 17, 2022, 12:28:18 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on December 17, 2022, 11:46:24 AM

The ballots are real.  They are mailed out to people who are, or were residents of the City. 
Ballot Harvesters are PAID to collect them by knocking on doors, even “ encouraging “ residents to properly complete them. 
These harvested ballots are brought in, often on Election Day, by the van load. 
In most large cities, there is no real attempt to validate them. They are counted.

One party has mastered this process, and continues to push for more of it and even looser validation, dates of acceptance, etc.  Why do you think that is the case?

The main problem here is documenting that all ballots collected were actually turned in

It would be very easy selectively turn in ballots collected

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 12:30:42 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on December 17, 2022, 12:19:37 PM

My man, you must love long trips on public buses and sitting for hours in the DMV

There are at least 25 locations in and around Charlotte alone. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 17, 2022, 12:46:16 PM

I don't see any issue with asking people to get to the DMV once every 5-7 years or so.  It's just a part of living in civilization.  I'd prefer not to pay taxes but that, too, is part of living in civilization.  If you care about voting, it's a small price to pay.

And as has been noted, many places allow online renewal now, at least every other time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2022, 12:57:08 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 11:05:58 AM

My experience has been in Illinois, Wisconsin and Florida.

Generally, they cost $10-25.

For renewals, generally Yes. In some states, you can do everything online, including new applications.

Many facilities are open on weekends. Of course, to get a job, most places require an ID...

Duh is right.

You and your ilk are retarded when it comes to understanding how the poor live.  
"Just hop online".......don't have a computer
"they cost $10-25"......don't have $25 to spare
"open on weekends"......works on weekends
needed an ID to get your job......got my job 7 years ago, lost my ID 2 years ago
.
Yes, this is an excuse for everything.  And yes, it's true for many.  
Until you make it a major holiday and provide transportation or online accessibility (free), then it's not easy or 'no problem' acquiring an ID.  
Yes, that's ridiculous and yes, it's gross that it's true.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2022, 12:58:31 PM

Oh, and voter fraud isn't a thing.  So this whole conversation is a waste of everyone's time.  You're more likely to be the victim of a shark attack in Kansas.
But please, carry on grilling up that nothing burger.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on December 17, 2022, 12:58:34 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 11:21:42 AM

Exactly.

This policy has me flabbergasted.

Should being able to vote be as hard as buying a firearm?

North Carolina has an interesting history on this. A previous voter ID law was struck down because the legislature commissioned studies on what types of ID's black people were more likely to use v. other people, then disallowed those IDs for voting purposes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2022, 01:12:45 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on December 17, 2022, 12:19:37 PM

The No. 1 thing I'd be interested in is how many people are actually voting without an ID. We know who votes in each election. We have a big list of various forms of ID. I assume a proponent of ID laws would want to demonstrate the number of questionable votes. Though if it was low, perhaps not. Also perhaps not if there was a worry that group would be analyzed in some way that made the enterprise look bad.

The timing element is interesting. The Supreme Court is gonna flip. There's no super majority in the legislature and a split between legislature and governor. So this would likely be on hold until 2024. Such is life in that arena.

I'd also like to know how many would actually vote if it didn't require an ID
or how many aren't voting because of this requirement
is this really a thing?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2022, 01:19:57 PM

For those too poor/busy working to get an ID, guess what?  They're not voting anyway.  

This whole "issue" is just noise on both sides.  But one party is making it a priority to pass unnecessary legislation.  So thanks, Rs!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 17, 2022, 01:23:53 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 12:30:42 PM

There are at least 25 locations in and around Charlotte alone.

Ooo. Now we've hit on a subject I'm much more interested in than voter ID, good and bad DMVs and getting to them. 

Let's put a 30-mile radius, there are nine places where I can get a license (the map you're looking at might be pretty generous and NC has different offices for licence plates, so it doubles the numbers). 

Let's take where I am at the exact moment, a gentrifying neighborhood a semi-short drive from downtown. The closest DMV is an hour away via public transit. The next appointment I can get is Feb 21, and I'll have to take the only slot availible. The next option is 1:40 away and I can get an appointment on Feb 23. From what I've been told, those "appointments" are more suggestions. The first time I tried to go, I got there at 2:30 (I had an appointment that I misread) and the lady popped out and asked who all had been there since 7 am. Several people raised hands. 

All told, if you don't own a car, you'll be lucky to not sink a full day into it, possibly two. 

It's interesting because as an adult, I've mostly been in states that have shockingly good DMVs. Miss that. I have a good workaround here, but it involves taking advantage of a very flexible job and driving out into the country. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2022, 01:26:22 PM

both sides been passing unnecessary legislation for decades

this one doesn't bother me as much as many others in the past

IMO, ya outta be a citizen to vote, showing a form of proof should be required

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 01:26:56 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2022, 01:19:57 PM

For those too poor/busy working to get an ID, guess what?  They're not voting anyway. 

This whole "issue" is just noise on both sides.  But one party is making it a priority to pass unnecessary legislation.  So thanks, Rs!

It's not political. This should be a non-partisan issue.

"Thanks, Rs!"? Who do you think initiated the appeal to the NC Supreme Court? Thank them for this nonsense.

Voting is a constitutional right, under the rule of law. If the rule of law indicates that an ID is required, and I believe it should be, then so be it.

Period.

Don't bring politics into this debate. It's a non-starter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2022, 01:27:01 PM

Yeah, no one is being an asshole by not understanding the plight of the poor, but at least be aware of the ignorance.
*not just poor people, I mean pooooooor people

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 17, 2022, 01:28:40 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on December 17, 2022, 12:58:34 PM

North Carolina has an interesting history on this. A previous voter ID law was struck down because the legislature commissioned studies on what types of ID's black people were more likely to use v. other people, then disallowed those IDs for voting purposes.

Yeah, can't be doing that funny business. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2022, 01:28:52 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 01:26:56 PM

It's not political. This should be a non-partisan issue.

"Thanks, Rs!"? Who do you think initiated the appeal to the NC Supreme Court? Thank them for this nonsense.

Voting is a constitutional right, under the rule of law. If the rule of law indicates that an ID is required, and I believe it should be, then so be it.

Period.

Don't bring politics into this debate. It's a non-starter.

Voter ID laws aren't political?  
Now I've heard EVERYTHING.  
You're funny.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 17, 2022, 01:28:59 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on December 17, 2022, 01:23:53 PM

Ooo. Now we've hit on a subject I'm much more interested in than voter ID, good and bad DMVs and getting to them.

Let's put a 30-mile radius, there are nine places where I can get a license (the map you're looking at might be pretty generous and NC has different offices for licence plates, so it doubles the numbers).

Let's take where I am at the exact moment, a gentrifying neighborhood a semi-short drive from downtown. The closest DMV is an hour away via public transit. The next appointment I can get is Feb 21, and I'll have to take the only slot availible. The next option is 1:40 away and I can get an appointment on Feb 23. From what I've been told, those "appointments" are more suggestions. The first time I tried to go, I got there at 2:30 (I had an appointment that I misread) and the lady popped out and asked who all had been there since 7 am. Several people raised hands.

All told, if you don't own a car, you'll be lucky to not sink a full day into it, possibly two.

It's interesting because as an adult, I've mostly been in states that have shockingly good DMVs. Miss that. I have a good workaround here, but it involves taking advantage of a very flexible job and driving out into the country.

Yes, you have to make appointments in advance now.  That was a surprise to me, since the last time I renewed before COVID, was like 9 years ago.  

And yes, you might have to make an appointment several months in the future.

So what?

As for the quality/efficiency of the DMV experience, that varies greatly by state/city/location.  We had to make an appointment 4 months in advance for my daughter's learner's permit, but we arrived 15 minutes early and were out the door 5 minutes after our original appointment time.  It was incredibly fast and efficient.

So, that's not a thing I'm particularly worried about, with respect to voter ID requirements.

As for riding the bus? Yes, if you don't have a car, you'll have to ride the bus a lot of places.  Or catch a ride with a friend.  Again, so what?  It comes right along with living in a civilized society.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2022, 01:30:00 PM

I'd guess pooooooor people, have better things to worry about than voting

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 01:30:12 PM

The GA law seems resonable to me.  The NC court ruled it was unconstitutional under the NC constitution.

I'd like to learn more about a political party sending out valid ballots by mail though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 01:32:52 PM

As for whether this is a partisan issue, if it's not, I'd expect to see liberals split on it, and conservatives as well.  To me, anything with a clear lib/con split is partisan.  How many conservatives think climate change is a serious issue?  Probably not many, and vice versa.  It shouldn't be partisan, but nearly everything is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 01:33:24 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on December 17, 2022, 01:23:53 PM

Ooo. Now we've hit on a subject I'm much more interested in than voter ID, good and bad DMVs and getting to them.

Let's put a 30-mile radius, there are nine places where I can get a license (the map you're looking at might be pretty generous and NC has different offices for licence plates, so it doubles the numbers).

Let's take where I am at the exact moment, a gentrifying neighborhood a semi-short drive from downtown. The closest DMV is an hour away via public transit. The next appointment I can get is Feb 21, and I'll have to take the only slot availible. The next option is 1:40 away and I can get an appointment on Feb 23. From what I've been told, those "appointments" are more suggestions. The first time I tried to go, I got there at 2:30 (I had an appointment that I misread) and the lady popped out and asked who all had been there since 7 am. Several people raised hands.

All told, if you don't own a car, you'll be lucky to not sink a full day into it, possibly two.

It's interesting because as an adult, I've mostly been in states that have shockingly good DMVs. Miss that. I have a good workaround here, but it involves taking advantage of a very flexible job and driving out into the country.

I filtered the map to only include ID services, FYI.

Illinois' DMV sucks. Florida's is fantastic.

And I know why one sucks and the other one doesn't.

In Illinois, you still have contact with 8 people, at least, and 8 lines. And that's just for an ID. In Florida, you sit down with ONE person and do it all - even the photo. When we went in May 2020, we did our driver's licenses and vehicle license plates in less than 30 minutes. ONE very nice person. Not 8 hacks looking like the walking dead.

I don't remember how Wisconsin was (30+ years ago).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2022, 01:34:17 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 17, 2022, 01:28:59 PM

As for the quality/efficiency of the DMV experience, that varies greatly by state/city/location.  

it's a government entity

there's a great chance it's gonna suck balls, cause no one is accountable
similar to the voting process

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 17, 2022, 01:34:20 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 01:26:56 PM

It's not political. This should be a non-partisan issue.

I don't know that they can be separated. 

It's the mechanism by which we assign political power. And tactics like this have been used for more than a century as a means to move around political power and often deny some a stake in that. And whichever way it falls, there's a belief that some side will gain more of an edge in that arena. 

So it ends up being political. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 01:35:08 PM

We had a similar experience here, I was shocked, expecting it to take most of the day.  We were in and out, registered to vote as well.

This was at the downtown DMV office.  I think we took MARTA.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2022, 01:35:28 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 01:32:52 PM

As for whether this is a partisan issue, if it's not, I'd expect to see liberals split on it, and conservatives as well.  To me, anything with a clear lib/con split is partisan.  How many conservatives think climate change is a serious issue?  Probably not many, and vice versa.  It shouldn't be partisan, but nearly everything is.

nearly??

I can't remember the last thing that wasn't

it's horrible

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 01:36:04 PM

Some technical issues are nonpartisan, like changing the patent law.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 17, 2022, 01:37:39 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 01:33:24 PM

I filtered the map to only include ID services, FYI.

Hmmm. I'm curious, did you use the DMV's map? Or Google?

Looking at the DMV, I think you get to about 55 miles to get to 25. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 01:37:59 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2022, 12:57:08 PM

You and your ilk are retarded when it comes to understanding how the poor live. 
"Just hop online".......don't have a computer
"they cost $10-25"......don't have $25 to spare
"open on weekends"......works on weekends
needed an ID to get your job......got my job 7 years ago, lost my ID 2 years ago
.
Yes, this is an excuse for everything.  And yes, it's true for many. 
Until you make it a major holiday and provide transportation or online accessibility (free), then it's not easy or 'no problem' acquiring an ID. 
Yes, that's ridiculous and yes, it's gross that it's true.

First, the bold:

Kiss my ass. Me and my wife have done more to help the poor than you could ever think.

Second, this post is so full of shit it's not even worth commenting on.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2022, 01:38:22 PM

did the house and the senate have to vote on the patent law?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2022, 01:39:06 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 17, 2022, 01:30:00 PM

I'd guess pooooooor people, have better things to worry about than voting

Statistically, they don't vote.  Neither do young people.  Try to avoid typing shit that makes you look like a colossal ass hat.

Many pooooor people don't vote because they're trying to avoid homelessness.
Go tell them how that's a bad choice.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 01:39:22 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on December 17, 2022, 01:37:39 PM

Hmmm. I'm curious, did you use the DMV's map? Or Google?

Looking at the DMV, I think you get to about 55 miles to get to 25.

That's "in and around" to me. The entire metro is well-covered.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2022, 01:39:48 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 01:37:59 PM

First, the bold:

Kiss my ass. Me and my wife have done more to help the poor than you could ever think.

Second, this post is so full of shit it's not even worth commenting on.

I believe you.  The more you help them, the more you get to judge them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 17, 2022, 01:40:27 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 01:33:24 PM

And I know why one sucks and the other one doesn't.

In Illinois, you still have contact with 8 people, at least, and 8 lines. And that's just for an ID. In Florida, you sit down with ONE person and do it all - even the photo. When we went in May 2020, we did our driver's licenses and vehicle license plates in less than 30 minutes. ONE very nice person. Not 8 hacks looking like the walking dead.

I'd assume Florida is better, though I wonder how much density factors in (I wonder that too with my past experiences)

Like I assume a major metro is more of a pain, just from a volume standpoint. Like, what would the gap be between Quincy Ill. and downtown Miami?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 01:40:33 PM

Another asshole comment. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2022, 01:41:26 PM

 I can pull up about 15 year's worth of posts to back my claim.  Tell me I'm wrong.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2022, 01:41:34 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2022, 01:39:06 PM

Statistically, they don't vote.  Neither do young people.  Try to avoid typing shit that makes you look like a colossal ass hat.

Many pooooor people don't vote because they're trying to avoid homelessness.
Go tell them how that's a bad choice.

this is what I was insinuating.

I'm an asshat, but if you type it you're not?

I'm okay with both of us being an asshat

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 01:41:38 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on December 17, 2022, 01:40:27 PM

I'd assume Florida is better, though I wonder how much density factors in (I wonder that too with my past experiences)

Like I assume a major metro is more of a pain, just from a volume standpoint. Like, what would the gap be between Quincy Ill. and downtown Miami?

Where I lived in Illinois was about as dense at where I live now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 17, 2022, 01:54:26 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 01:39:22 PM

That's "in and around" to me. The entire metro is well-covered.

That feels generous, but agree to disagree, I suppose. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 17, 2022, 01:56:59 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 01:41:38 PM

Where I lived in Illinois was about as dense at where I live now.

It is?

I should say, are you talking the specific town? Metro? Something else?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 01:57:15 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on December 17, 2022, 01:54:26 PM

That feels generous, but agree to disagree, I suppose.

Could be. Living in Chicago, 55 miles was less than my one-way commute to work for about 5 years. It was 73 miles.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 01:59:47 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on December 17, 2022, 01:56:59 PM

It is?

It's close for sure. I lived in Lake County up until Palatine, which has the same population as Lee County, FL.

In Palatine, the closest DMV for us was Lake Zurich (in Lake County).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 17, 2022, 02:00:13 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 01:57:15 PM

Could be. Living in Chicago, 55 miles was less than my one-way commute to work for about 5 years. It was 73 miles.

Lord. If can be rude, where was that from and to? Just trying to get a picture of it. 

I'm genuinely curious about commutes. I've always been lucky to live close to work, and my current company has a bunch of people who work from home instead of losing two hours a day in transit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 02:02:43 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on December 17, 2022, 02:00:13 PM

Lord. If can be rude, where was that from and to? Just trying to get a picture of it.

Gurnee to Oswego.


(https://i.imgur.com/YccmYGy.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 17, 2022, 02:05:25 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 01:59:47 PM

It's close for sure. I lived in Lake County up until Palatine, which has the same population as Lee County, FL.

In Palatine, the closest DMV for us was Lake Zurich (in Lake County).

Ahhh. I see, and I see where we were misaligned. 

Lake County Ill is about 50 percent more dense, but in the context I was referring to, I assumed there was some DMV redistribution, so people from Cook or DuPage might wander over in search of better DMVs. Whereas Lake County Fla is the centerpiece, so people could also filter out to the less dense neighboring counties. 

In any case, this kinda stuff interests me, and I've enjoyed putting off things I should do to cut up about it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 02:12:59 PM

Illinois closed a lot of DMV locations in recent years. They gots budget problems up there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on December 17, 2022, 02:15:59 PM

This is comedy gold. 

Turning this into a pretend issue- that there are a material number of people who want to vote but can’t because they don’t have, or can’t get, the required level of ID for their particular jurisdictions.   

As CD said- and Fearless supported.  There is not much of an issue with folks walking up to vote without ID.  But there certainly could be if the rules continue to get looser. 

The bigger issue- what level of ID or validation should be required for mail in ballots or those “ collected”  by the compensated harvesters.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2022, 02:23:42 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on December 17, 2022, 02:15:59 PM

The bigger issue- what level of ID or validation should be required for mail in ballots or those “ collected”  by the compensated harvesters. 

Ed Zachery!
We (both parties) should assure the american people that our elections are safe from fraud and fair.
which ever party that would vote against this has no defense

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 02:27:37 PM

Also need to fix the media problem. Both sides. Truth is hard to come by these days.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 02:32:29 PM

Harvesting is certainly a thing, of some size, in cities at least.  I don't know how to prevent it.  Collectors go to old folks homes and collect.  The old folks get absentee ballots which are authentic.  The old folk probably has a way to authenticate the ballot, and the "helpful" collector tells them they can do the rest for them.

But I still think it is rare that an individual shows up to vote who isn't real and registered.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2022, 02:33:12 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 02:27:37 PM

Also need to fix the media problem. Both sides. Truth is hard to come by these days.

agreed, but that's not gonna happen

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 02:36:19 PM

New MARTA rail cars preview | 11alive.com (https://www.11alive.com/article/news/local/marta-new-railcars-sneak-peek/85-9a7b6f83-cf41-4b31-a239-e7ac604dc4dc?fbclid=IwAR0Zfn56yMKtjyPGaLz8kUUYZvNKEWr3ZQrFHJov-_iauyTD3ZsUfmb734M)

New trains here, bought in Europe, sent to ATlanta, then Salt Lake, and 2025 back here in service, maybe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2022, 02:40:24 PM

seems efficient

government deal?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 03:10:31 PM

No doubt 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 17, 2022, 04:30:02 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2022, 02:27:37 PM

Also need to fix the media problem. Both sides. Truth is hard to come by these days.

That’s a tough nut to crack. That industry in terms of how it operates is so smoothly capitalistic. It responds super efficiently to consumer demand, and consumer demand by and large does not make for clearheaded coverage.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2022, 04:48:47 PM

Just remove the financial incentive to provide news.  Or forbid "news" channels to have commentary.  Just boring reporting of the news.  Not inhibiting free speech, just requiring anything labeled "news" to provide nothing but news.  Actual journalism.  Reporting of facts with proof/evidence.  No op-eds.  

Get the greedy fucks out of the business.  

MSNBC:  12 people died in an explosion yesterday, in Kabul.
FOXNews:  12 people died in an explosion yesterday, in Kabul.
CNN:  please watch us 12 people died in an explosion yesterday, in Kabul.
.
You can only fix the news channels if you make each one irrelevant.  No reason to watch any particular one, nor avoid any one.  Don't even measure the ratings.  Make that irrelevant.  No commercials.  Boring, factual, actual news.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 05:03:07 PM

We could have a guvmint news channel only

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2022, 05:17:10 PM

what could go wrong?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 17, 2022, 05:56:03 PM

NCAA just granted an Oregon TE a 9th year of eligibility. Yep. 9 years. LOL.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2022, 05:58:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 05:03:07 PM

We could have a guvmint news channel only

Why does someone always make this leap?  I haven't suggested this at all.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2022, 06:01:03 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 17, 2022, 05:56:03 PM

NCAA just granted an Oregon TE a 9th year of eligibility. Yep. 9 years. LOL.

A lot of people go to college for 9 years....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 17, 2022, 06:02:11 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2022, 06:01:03 PM

A lot of people go to college for 9 years....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOsQ2epsI2M

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2022, 06:04:54 PM

Thank you, the site wasn't letting me post it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2022, 06:21:47 PM

https://youtu.be/bjIH1jdx2_A

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 18, 2022, 08:28:49 AM

I actually spent 10 years getting my degree.

(https://i.imgur.com/Aq1Zp6d.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 18, 2022, 08:31:02 AM

I received my 5-year degree in 4 years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 18, 2022, 08:35:13 AM

I worked full time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 18, 2022, 08:36:53 AM

I only worked part time. In reality I would have loved to stretch it out more, but my scholarships only went 4 years so I had to finish that quickly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 18, 2022, 09:20:01 AM

My commute from work to school:

(https://i.imgur.com/uuArGK9.png)

Could not even think about doing that today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 18, 2022, 09:25:55 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 17, 2022, 05:56:03 PM

NCAA just granted an Oregon TE a 9th year of eligibility. Yep. 9 years. LOL.

Was this because of vascilating back n forth between Genders?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 18, 2022, 11:10:55 PM

The real life last action hero

https://twitter.com/TomCruise/status/1604601673145614337?t=kL-DTmHTwrKleqkofIWwXQ&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 18, 2022, 11:15:01 PM

I went to school for 7 years.
Started at South Florida in Tampa - had a lot of fun, got bad grades
Found out mom had cancer, came back home
Went to community college for a few
Transferred to Florida
.
My classes at Florida were kind of scheduled for me, in the College of Ed.  But at CC, I loved college life, so I only took 2 classes a semester.  I figured why hurry?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 18, 2022, 11:37:16 PM

I added a second major and went to school for five years, though I dropped to being a part-time student a couple times.

I think I did exactly enough college for me. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 18, 2022, 11:54:17 PM

exactly enough for me was when the money didn't make good sense

I didn't feel comfortable taking out more loans

I got a job and paid off the small loans I had taken

It turned out fine

no regrets

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on December 19, 2022, 01:18:45 AM

If you count start of undergrad, work for two, law for three, I can get to nine. 

Lived miserly during those working two so I wouldn't need to borrow much for law school.   Wise move.   I didn't see a scenario where borrowing much for law school made any sense.   1/4th of law school tops is fun, it really should be two years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on December 19, 2022, 06:31:43 AM

Worked evenings and weekends while away at school. Between that , a couple of student loans and a bit of help from the folks- got my BBA. 

Went into the workforce and after a few years, my company paid for my MBA, which took 3 years.  Achieved my goal of getting the Masters by 30. 

It all worked out well- was never desiring for more school after that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 19, 2022, 07:10:17 AM

They only thing I'd do now in a school is teach in it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 19, 2022, 08:05:36 AM

I went summers at UGA, finished in three years.  Of course grad school is summers as well.  Finished is just shy five.  That was a grind.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 19, 2022, 08:14:25 AM

Finished my BS. Later started an MBA program, then aborted it to start my own business. Those instructors didn't seem to know jack, as none of them were actually IN business.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 19, 2022, 08:59:04 AM

Quote from: ELA on December 18, 2022, 11:10:55 PM

The real life last action hero

https://twitter.com/TomCruise/status/1604601673145614337?t=kL-DTmHTwrKleqkofIWwXQ&s=19

he's one of the GOATs when it comes to movies for sure. Dude is unreal. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on December 19, 2022, 09:28:54 AM

Took me 5 years to get my BCE degree, and some years thereafter to work in the industry long enough to get duly licensed.

A friend of ours is an architect, and one must have a masters in order to be a licensed architect. That's crazy. I know that ASCE is pushing MSCEs hard, but I don't think the degree requirement should change for a license.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 19, 2022, 09:41:32 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on December 19, 2022, 09:28:54 AM

Took me 5 years to get my BCE degree, and some years thereafter to work in the industry long enough to get duly licensed.

A friend of ours is an architect, and one must have a masters in order to be a licensed architect. That's crazy. I know that ASCE is pushing MSCEs hard, but I don't think the degree requirement should change for a license.

The BS Eng programs could absolutely go to 3 years if all of the fluff was eliminated. But... a whole lot of LA professors would be really pissed.

Therefore, not happening.

My BS Eng degree required 147 credit hours.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on December 19, 2022, 09:56:30 AM

I'm okay with the LA requirements in undergrad, and my credit total was something in that neighborhood when I graduated. 

What I don't want is for licensing requirements to go the other way. IMHO masters degrees are NOT needed for our licensure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 19, 2022, 10:07:13 AM

MS is not needed for anything in our particular field. There is such a thing as too much school.

I still wonder why I had to take Rural Sociology and other nonsense.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 19, 2022, 10:11:16 AM

y'all know you had too much school

hell, I had too much school before I dropped out

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 19, 2022, 10:47:05 AM

In European colleges, you take only courses in your major (or closely related fields).  They expect you already know history and whatnot from HS.

A BS Chemist from Europe had a lot more chemistry than one in the US.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 19, 2022, 10:49:36 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 19, 2022, 10:47:05 AM

In European colleges, you take only courses in your major (or closely related fields).  They expect you already know history and whatnot from HS.

A BS Chemist from Europe had a lot more chemistry than one in the US.

Let's be like Europe!!


:)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2022, 10:51:44 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 19, 2022, 10:11:16 AM

y'all know you had too much school

hell, I had too much school before I dropped out

You Rebel - the Pirate would be proud.....as am I

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 19, 2022, 10:54:18 AM

The other thing about Europe is only about 37% of HS grads attend college, here it's nearly 70%.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 19, 2022, 11:23:55 AM

National Realtors group declares Atlanta 'top market to watch' in 2023 | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/national-association-realtors-declares-atlanta-top-market-watch-2023)

Good news for Austin residents ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 19, 2022, 12:18:05 PM

We have a patient who's been working in China for the last 5 years.  He was telling me this morning how he and his wife were locked inside their home for 2 months straight at one point during the pandemic.  Said their lockdowns were so drastic that a normal, natural spread never happened, and now that they're lifting some restrictions out of necessity, COVID is blowing through there at a record pace, just leveling the populace, at least where he worked.

Operative word there is worked....he quit, said he was done with that place.  Don't blame him.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 19, 2022, 12:43:51 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 19, 2022, 12:18:05 PM

We have a patient who's been working in China for the last 5 years.  He was telling me this morning how he and his wife were locked inside their home for 2 months straight at one point during the pandemic.  Said their lockdowns were so drastic that a normal, natural spread never happened, and now that they're lifting some restrictions out of necessity, COVID is blowing through there at a record pace, just leveling the populace, at least where he worked.

Operative word there is worked....he quit, said he was done with that place.  Don't blame him. 

They did that type of lockdown in some places but didn't catch it everywhere.  Our vendors had entire manufacturing lines lost to COVID, well beyond the timing of the original lockdowns.

But yeah, they did just enough lockdowns, then, to create this massive current wave, now.

This is probably the single greatest set of supporting data for CD's "Area Under The Curve" hypothesis.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 19, 2022, 12:47:31 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 19, 2022, 09:41:32 AM

The BS Eng programs could absolutely go to 3 years if all of the fluff was eliminated. But... a whole lot of LA professors would be really pissed.

Therefore, not happening.

My BS Eng degree required 147 credit hours.

Yeah mine was about the same.  I graduated with over 160 because I placed out of a lot of hours, that didn't count toward my degree.  Extra History, Literature, etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on December 19, 2022, 01:19:17 PM

Went to community college 3 semesters, A&M Kingsville 1 semester, then College Station 4 years. 4.5 really, started fall ‘96, finished Dec 2000. So 6.5 years for me. I think I was 24 or 25 when I graduated. Old man by then!  Lost a lot of hours transferring, bad advisor advice, changed majors. Glad I got done, no more school for me. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 19, 2022, 01:20:26 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 19, 2022, 12:43:51 PM

This is probably the single greatest set of supporting data for CD's "Area Under The Curve" hypothesis.

Somebody fill me in on that, I missed it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 19, 2022, 01:32:45 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 19, 2022, 01:20:26 PM

Somebody fill me in on that, I missed it. 

Just read this thread. Shouldn't take long.


Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas (cfb51.com)
 (https://www.cfb51.com/big-ten/sports-and-coronavirus/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 19, 2022, 09:02:34 PM

(Reuters) - U.S. oil refiner PBF Energy is closing out one of the best financial years in its history, a wild bounce back from the brink in April 2020 when fuel demand and gasoline prices cratered during the pandemic and the company's value swooned lower than what it had just paid to buy a California refinery.

PBF's stock fell by so much that at one point the company was valued at less than the $1 billion it paid for the refinery. Now, the refining company is basically debt-free, and year-to-date its share price has soared 400% even during a bear market on Wall Street.

The three largest U.S. oil refiners – Valero, Marathon Petroleum and Phillips 66 - sport lower debt levels, are bringing in more cash than they were three years ago, when fuel demand was at a peak, according to a Reuters analysis of their financial performance.

Marathon, and Valero's market valuations reached record highs in 2022; while Phillips 66 and PBF's are near highs reached in 2019.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 20, 2022, 08:42:26 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 19, 2022, 10:07:13 AM

MS is not needed for anything in our particular field. There is such a thing as too much school.

I still wonder why I had to take Rural Sociology and other nonsense.

I assume they couldn’t put a class on the curriculum called “engineers, you need to understand how to interact with real people,” so that was the next best thing.

(you seem good at interacting with people, but a lot of engineers, not so much)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on December 20, 2022, 08:47:44 AM

What a surprise...

https://spectator.org/richard-haass-admits-the-foreign-policy-establishment-has-been-wrong-for-the-past-30-years/ (https://spectator.org/richard-haass-admits-the-foreign-policy-establishment-has-been-wrong-for-the-past-30-years/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 20, 2022, 09:05:41 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on December 20, 2022, 08:42:26 AM

I assume they couldn’t put a class on the curriculum called “engineers, you need to understand how to interact with real people,” so that was the next best thing.

(you seem good at interacting with people, but a lot of engineers, not so much)

We could start by taking gaming/virtual reality crap away from little kids.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 20, 2022, 09:12:08 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on December 20, 2022, 08:47:44 AM

What a surprise...

https://spectator.org/richard-haass-admits-the-foreign-policy-establishment-has-been-wrong-for-the-past-30-years/ (https://spectator.org/richard-haass-admits-the-foreign-policy-establishment-has-been-wrong-for-the-past-30-years/)

Definitely concerning.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 20, 2022, 09:17:37 AM

FACT OF THE DAY:

In the Philippine island province of Camiguin, there are more volcanoes (7) than towns (5). There hasn’t been an eruption since the mid-1950s, but the island has the most number of volcanoes per square kilometer in the world.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 20, 2022, 09:19:27 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 20, 2022, 09:05:41 AM

We could start by taking gaming/virtual reality crap away from little kids.

hah, engineers have been known to have this issue long before Atari PONG was released in June 1972

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 20, 2022, 09:35:26 AM

It's more stereotype than anything, in my experience.

We've had engineers who we had to "hide", but they generally don't stick around long. It's not our culture.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 20, 2022, 09:37:52 AM

it's the few you have to hide that started the stereotype

Technicians in general can be that way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 20, 2022, 09:42:16 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 20, 2022, 09:37:52 AM

it's the few you have to hide that started the stereotype

Technicians in general can be that way.

The numbers are much smaller than what is thought. I'd say maybe one in ten are socially inept. We are "civil", of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 20, 2022, 10:01:21 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 19, 2022, 01:32:45 PM

Just read this thread. Shouldn't take long.


Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas (cfb51.com)
 (https://www.cfb51.com/big-ten/sports-and-coronavirus/)

How do I slap you through the cable lines?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 20, 2022, 10:40:12 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 20, 2022, 09:42:16 AM

The numbers are much smaller than what is thought. I'd say maybe one in ten are socially inept. We are "civil", of course.

The % is higher in EE. There are some power dorks in my field, for sure.

But still, it's a silly argument.  For most engineers that have social issues, it's a fundamental part of their personality. I don't see a class doing much, to change that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 20, 2022, 11:12:35 AM

yup, the odd ducks I've worked with aren't going to change with electric shock therapy or acid trips or both

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 20, 2022, 11:49:07 AM

Bret Bielema, Illinois agree on new six-year contract through 2028, raise to $6 million annually

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 20, 2022, 12:09:39 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 20, 2022, 10:40:12 AM

The % is higher in EE. There are some power dorks in my field, for sure.

But still, it's a silly argument.  For most engineers that have social issues, it's a fundamental part of their personality. I don't see a class doing much, to change that.

My youngest stepson is in school for mech. eng.  He has the prototypical engineer personality with all the introverted quirks thrown in.  He doesn't want to change, and no amount of classes or anything else would help, because he doesn't want to be anything other than what he is.  He has social anxiety and he's okay with that.  He's not exactly awkward socially, but he'll do what he can to avoid people in general, and he's very abrupt and direct and will come off rude to people who don't know him, even though he's not. 

Well, he kinda is, but not too bad. 

He will argue with a brick wall, though.  When he thinks he's right, there is no principle of falsification in play that will convince him otherwise.  Sometimes it's hilarious and other times its frustrating when he argues with his mom about medical stuff.  She, with a medical degree and over a decade's experience, and he, with Google and Reddit, but he will argue with her about diseases, meds, etc. fully convinced that she just isn't smart enough to see his point.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 20, 2022, 12:34:17 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 20, 2022, 12:09:39 PM

My youngest stepson is in school for mech. eng.  He has the prototypical engineer personality with all the introverted quirks thrown in.  He doesn't want to change, and no amount of classes or anything else would help, because he doesn't want to be anything other than what he is.  He has social anxiety and he's okay with that.  He's not exactly awkward socially, but he'll do what he can to avoid people in general, and he's very abrupt and direct and will come off rude to people who don't know him, even though he's not. 

Well, he kinda is, but not too bad.

He will argue with a brick wall, though.  When he thinks he's right, there is no principle of falsification in play that will convince him otherwise.  Sometimes it's hilarious and other times its frustrating when he argues with his mom about medical stuff.  She, with a medical degree and over a decade's experience, and he, with Google and Reddit, but he will argue with her about diseases, meds, etc. fully convinced that she just isn't smart enough to see his point. 

Your son is OAM?
Wow didnt know

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 20, 2022, 09:37:45 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 20, 2022, 10:40:12 AM

The % is higher in EE. There are some power dorks in my field, for sure.

But still, it's a silly argument.  For most engineers that have social issues, it's a fundamental part of their personality. I don't see a class doing much, to change that.

(Not meant literally. Certianly not with rural sociology)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 21, 2022, 06:55:21 AM

All of this can go.

(https://i.imgur.com/BwfFhFI.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 21, 2022, 07:25:17 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 20, 2022, 09:19:27 AM

hah, engineers have been known to have this issue long before Atari PONG was released in June 1972

You still have your Atari "PONG" single-game console hooked up in your man cave, don't you. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 21, 2022, 08:10:55 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on December 21, 2022, 07:25:17 AM

You still have your Atari "PONG" single-game console hooked up in your man cave, don't you.

Better than what he used to play, rather than watch Scott Frost coach a game

(https://www.kshs.org/cool3/graphics/ftballgameclose.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 21, 2022, 08:47:55 AM

The first ever football video game was for the Magnavox Odyssey, in 1971. 

It was basically pong, only crappier because it was before pong, with a gridiron static cling graphic that you put over your screen, and a complicated scorecard that you had to fill out attentively. 


(https://voxodyssey.com/themes/vox-odyssey-main-theme//assets/images/png/mo-football.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 21, 2022, 09:19:24 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/8Q1YhGf.png)

1977

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 21, 2022, 09:31:34 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 20, 2022, 11:12:35 AM

yup, the odd ducks I've worked with aren't going to change with electric shock therapy or acid trips or both

Sure they would they'd quit their jobs and join a Cali commune

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 21, 2022, 09:35:07 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 20, 2022, 11:12:35 AM

yup, the odd ducks I've worked with aren't going to change with electric shock therapy or acid trips or both

(https://i.imgur.com/Tt9IhIL.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 21, 2022, 10:08:34 AM

Watched the Nolan Ryan documentary on Netflix last night.  It was pretty good.  Not exactly great strictly as a "documentary" as it lacked hardcore in-depth analysis of the ins and outs of his life and career, but very entertaining nonetheless.  I didn't know prior to watching one of his sons did the film and I suspect there was only so much "documentary" going to happen outside of tooting his dad's horn. 

Still fun for me.  Ryan is to baseball for me what Jordan is to basketball....my childhood hero and the GOAT in my mind.  

Oddly, as a boy I didn't daydream about pitching like Ryan, I dreamed about being a batter and getting a hit off of him.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on December 21, 2022, 10:12:29 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 21, 2022, 10:08:34 AM

Watched the Nolan Ryan documentary on Netflix last night.  It was pretty good.  Not exactly great strictly as a "documentary" as it lacked hardcore in-depth analysis of the ins and outs of his life and career, but very entertaining nonetheless.  I didn't know prior to watching one of his sons did the film and I suspect there was only so much "documentary" going to happen outside of tooting his dad's horn.

Still fun for me.  Ryan is to baseball for me what Jordan is to basketball....my childhood hero and the GOAT in my mind. 

Oddly, as a boy I didn't daydream about pitching like Ryan, I dreamed about being a batter and getting a hit off of him. 

Agree.  I enjoyed it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 21, 2022, 10:12:41 AM

I had the news on last evening, and I went in to make garlic bread.

I come out, and the wife has Saturday Night Fever on the tube. So, I watched that. Could not make that movie today, that's for sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 21, 2022, 10:24:51 AM

Quote from: ELA on December 21, 2022, 08:10:55 AM

Better than what he used to play, rather than watch Scott Frost coach a game

(https://www.kshs.org/cool3/graphics/ftballgameclose.jpg)

 my brother and I had hours of fun fighting over that game.  Ours seemed like the field was larger compared to the size of the players.
the forward pass wasn't real accurate
and the best part was we didn't have any dumb shit coaches back then
Bob Devaney, Chuck Fairbanks, Woody Hayes, Bo Schembechler, Bud Grant, Bob Landry, Chuck Noll, Don Shula

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 21, 2022, 10:26:34 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 21, 2022, 10:08:34 AM

Watched the Nolan Ryan documentary on Netflix last night.  It was pretty good.  Not exactly great strictly as a "documentary" as it lacked hardcore in-depth analysis of the ins and outs of his life and career, but very entertaining nonetheless.  I didn't know prior to watching one of his sons did the film and I suspect there was only so much "documentary" going to happen outside of tooting his dad's horn.

Still fun for me.  Ryan is to baseball for me what Jordan is to basketball....my childhood hero and the GOAT in my mind. 

Oddly, as a boy I didn't daydream about pitching like Ryan, I dreamed about being a batter and getting a hit off of him. 

the Express - greatest ever
records that will never be approached

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 21, 2022, 10:34:24 AM

This is great.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-home-sales-dropped-7-7-in-november-a-record-10th-straight-month-of-declines-11671635711?st=0d3yg9m2s1lidu9&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 21, 2022, 10:46:31 AM

I'm in the market - hopin to buy low!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 21, 2022, 10:51:18 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/15B21z0.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 21, 2022, 10:58:22 AM

hah, folks makin the 2 hour drive from San Fran to Sacramento

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 21, 2022, 11:01:00 AM

Interesting.  Wouldn't have expected to see anywhere in CA on the "moving to" list, but I suspect that's people fleeing other parts of Cali who don't want to move across country.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 21, 2022, 11:05:10 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 21, 2022, 10:34:24 AM

This is great.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-home-sales-dropped-7-7-in-november-a-record-10th-straight-month-of-declines-11671635711?st=0d3yg9m2s1lidu9&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

"...in an effort to combat high inflation by slowing spending, hiring and investment."

"...keep raising interest rates next year [color=var(--interactive-text-color)]to reduce high inflation (https://www.wsj.com/articles/us-inflation-november-2022-consumer-price-index-11670883405?mod=article_inline)[/url] by slowing economic growth."


Thomas Sowell has some stuff to say about this.  [/font][/size][/color]

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 21, 2022, 11:28:57 AM

higher interest rates are the worst thing possible for the national debt

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 21, 2022, 11:49:59 AM

Sowell's "Basic Economics" should be the default textbook for high school or even college Econ classes.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on December 21, 2022, 02:16:39 PM

Nolan Ryan grew up in Alvin, about 30 miles from my town but in the same county. I still remember when the Astros let him go to the Rangers in the late 80’s. Boy people were mad. 

I do t follow baseball much, but why wasn’t he ever awarded a Cy Young ?  Did the press hate him, or was there something else in play ? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 21, 2022, 02:32:06 PM

wins and losses

Nolan didn't play on the best teams

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 21, 2022, 02:41:10 PM

Quote from: Gigem on December 21, 2022, 02:16:39 PM

Nolan Ryan grew up in Alvin, about 30 miles from my town but in the same county. I still remember when the Astros let him go to the Rangers in the late 80’s. Boy people were mad.

I do t follow baseball much, but why wasn’t he ever awarded a Cy Young ?  Did the press hate him, or was there something else in play ?

I don't think the press hated him.

The most games he ever won in a season was 22 (lost 16), and Catfish won it that season with a 25-12 record. The year prior he won 21 and lost 16. Jim Palmer won it that year with a 22-9 record. Ryan's ERA's were considerably higher too.

(I had to look some of that up - I knew about Catfish)

Ryan won over 20 games only twice in his 27 years. This I knew.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 21, 2022, 02:45:28 PM

there ya go

also, he didn't play in the favored markets, New York, Boston, LA, Chicago

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 21, 2022, 03:06:31 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 21, 2022, 02:45:28 PM

there ya go

also, he didn't play in the favored markets, New York, Boston, LA, Chicago

Catfish - Oakland
Palmer - Baltimore

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 21, 2022, 03:12:38 PM

Well those two clubs made repeated trips to the fall Classic in the '60s-'70s.I'm sure if he had that A's 3 straight squad he would have had a few more W's.Saw heard Nolan pitch when I was a lad and he was with the Angels at old Municipal Stadium.Flame thrower or vapor trails comes to mind

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 21, 2022, 05:06:49 PM

Ryan also walked twice as many batters as the next-highest pitcher.  Some (eventually) viewed his pitching as selfish - never giving in to the batter, either striking him out or walking him.  Not much for his fielders to do.  Rather give up 3 walks than allow a hit.  
His '87 season is the oddest ever:  8-16 win/loss record, but led the league in ERA and Ks.  What sense does that make?
.
All-time leader in strikeouts, walked batters, and hits per 9 allowed.  That's basically all you need to know about him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 21, 2022, 05:09:43 PM

yup, Badge is too young to remember Charley Finley
The A's won the AL West for five consecutive seasons, from 1971 to 1975, and they captured three straight World Series from 1972 to 1974.

Free Agency killed the A's - small market

Jim Palmer went 20-9 with the 1971 Baltimore Orioles — the last team in Major League history with four twenty-game winners on the same staff? Mike Cuellar (20-9), Pat Dobson (20-8) and Dave McNally (21-5) were the other three aces on this truly legendary pitching staff.

Did you know that Jim Palmer was an underwear model for Jockey (see ad below), appearing in both print and television advertisements throughout the 1970s? Did you know he donated all proceeds from the sale of his underwear poster to the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation?

(https://www.baseball-almanac.com/images/jim_palmer_jockey_advertisement.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 21, 2022, 05:11:29 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 21, 2022, 05:06:49 PM

His '87 season is the oddest ever:  8-16 win/loss record, but led the league in ERA and Ks.  What sense does that make?

makes sense that he played on a bad team
and it probably wasn't the bullpen's fault - he finished games throwing 100+

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 21, 2022, 05:17:48 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 21, 2022, 05:09:43 PM

Did you know that Jim Palmer was an underwear model for Jockey (see ad below), appearing in both print and television advertisements throughout the 1970s? Did you know he donated all proceeds from the sale of his underwear poster to the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation?

(https://www.baseball-almanac.com/images/jim_palmer_jockey_advertisement.jpg)

Looks like Tom Berenger's sober brother

(https://i.imgur.com/6aXhEv9.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 21, 2022, 06:31:40 PM

My step son went to a local bar here last night and saw Charles Barkley sitting in the back.  The bar tenderess said he came there often and tried to hide.

We've had lunch there and it's pretty good for bar food.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 22, 2022, 06:32:18 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 21, 2022, 05:09:43 PM

yup, Badge is too young to remember Charley Finley
The A's won the AL West for five consecutive seasons, from 1971 to 1975, and they captured three straight World Series from 1972 to 1974.

Free Agency killed the A's - small market

Not at all. I remember hating on the A's.

And I remember Jim Palmer - he was one that I wanted to be like. Weird motion but it worked.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 22, 2022, 10:33:40 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 21, 2022, 06:31:40 PM

My step son went to a local bar here last night and saw Charles Barkley sitting in the back.  The bar tenderess said he came there often and tried to hide.

We've had lunch there and it's pretty good for bar food.

A couple I know in Round Rock have spotted Nolan Ryan two times at the Louisiana Longhorn restaurant.  I never saw him despite my many trips there.  Never had the heart to tell utee when I would suggest meeting there that I was really just hoping to spot Ryan.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 22, 2022, 11:37:16 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 22, 2022, 10:33:40 AM

A couple I know in Round Rock have spotted Nolan Ryan two times at the Louisiana Longhorn restaurant.  I never saw him despite my many trips there.  Never had the heart to tell utee when I would suggest meeting there that I was really just hoping to spot Ryan. 

I'd have been okay with that. That dude is legend.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 22, 2022, 08:10:32 PM

Nolan's son was a member of my brother's church in Round Rock.

Nolan would attend once in a while

my brother had a few conversations with him

great guy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 22, 2022, 10:21:37 PM

Your closet-Longhorn brother is a wonderful man.  I'm not at all surprised he had the grace and intelligence to converse with Nolan. You could all learn some lessons from him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 22, 2022, 11:00:25 PM

hopefully, some of that will rub off on me starting tomorrow evening when he picks me up at the airport

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 22, 2022, 11:55:32 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 22, 2022, 11:00:25 PM

hopefully, some of that will rub off on me starting tomorrow evening when he picks me up at the airport

better put some logs on the fire its 22 degrees outside here in H town

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 22, 2022, 11:58:52 PM

15 here in the ATX

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 23, 2022, 12:30:28 AM

My power went out for a split second but came back on probably the high wind havent had any other problems

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 23, 2022, 08:39:50 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 22, 2022, 11:00:25 PM

hopefully, some of that will rub off on me starting tomorrow evening when he picks me up at the airport

Got some cajones to take to flight in weather like this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 23, 2022, 09:44:01 AM

so far Southwest airlines hasn't told me the flight was cancelled in Omaha

I have boarding pass in hand and on the phone

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 23, 2022, 09:51:46 AM

Fair travels to you and enjoy picking out a house in Austin

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 23, 2022, 10:31:14 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 23, 2022, 09:51:46 AM

Fair travels to you and enjoy picking out a house in Austin

(https://i.imgur.com/SuwyXT9.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 23, 2022, 10:32:35 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 23, 2022, 12:30:28 AM

My power went out for a split second but came back on probably the high wind havent had any other problems

High winds have knocked out power at various places around the state.  And, all of the states to the east of us.  

No grid issues, despite the fervent wishes of all of those who want to complain about it and use it as a political football.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 23, 2022, 10:51:23 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 23, 2022, 10:31:14 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/SuwyXT9.png)

I hear Cedar Park is the place ya wanna be

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 23, 2022, 10:51:57 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 23, 2022, 10:51:23 AM

I hear Cedar Park is the place ya wanna be

Nah you don't wanna live out here in the sticks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 23, 2022, 11:12:02 AM

but, I like Crystal Falls golf course

Slick told me about that one

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 23, 2022, 11:14:56 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 23, 2022, 11:12:02 AM

but, I like Crystal Falls golf course

Slick told me about that one

Crystal Falls is pretty close to where I live.   But everybody here golfs at Twin Creeks.  I have no idea whether or not it's any good, but I do like cutting across it on my morning runs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 23, 2022, 11:31:33 AM

played Twin Creeks in the past as well

yes, a little nicer than Crystal - a bit more expensive

you obviously weren't far from my brother's place in RR

or Slick's place in Leander

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 23, 2022, 11:41:14 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 23, 2022, 11:31:33 AM

played Twin Creeks in the past as well

yes, a little nicer than Crystal - a bit more expensive

you obviously weren't far from my brother's place in RR

or Slick's place in Leander

oh sure you bring your stupid cold from up north and then expect to play golf here

you have a lot of nerve

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 23, 2022, 12:01:33 PM

thursday gonna be shorts weather in Colleyville

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 23, 2022, 12:04:19 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 23, 2022, 10:51:57 AM

Nah you don't wanna live out here in the sticks.

Sure he does all the crazies cool dudes live out where the buses don't run

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 25, 2022, 12:09:03 PM

Have a tenderloin sitting out to reach RT.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 25, 2022, 12:15:01 PM

Cioppino on today's menu here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 25, 2022, 01:15:33 PM

Not enough obstacles on those Texas courses. 

(https://images.utahgolf.com/courselarge/sandhollow1.jpg)

(https://golfdigest.sports.sndimg.com/content/dam/images/golfdigest/fullset/2018/08/27/5b840d64538cfe5b80baa1d3_Sand-Hollow-Resort-15th-hole.jpg.rend.hgtvcom.966.483.suffix/1573247600328.jpeg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 25, 2022, 02:01:54 PM

I seared the tenderlong in my iron skllet with butter and garlic, now in the oven to 120°F, oven has a probe so it's auto.

My wife likes her steak blu rare, which is hard to find in restaurants around here.

She likes burgers rare too, really just seared and raw.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 25, 2022, 02:04:33 PM

120 is much better than 145

I like beef warm, better than med well

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 26, 2022, 11:48:43 AM

Depends on the cut, and on the prep.

I like my burgers above medium.

I like my filet medium rare.

You have to try really hard to overcook a ribeye. It has enough fat to stand a longer cook.

I do not like prime rib at all.

Cuts like flank and skirt need marinade. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 26, 2022, 01:29:29 PM

Had some Costco Ribeyes yesterday for Christmas Dinner ,verygood at medium had some problems at it was around 8-10 deg out and the propane wasn't exactly flowing but just took a little longer grill time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 26, 2022, 01:32:54 PM

I tend to do my ribeye medium well to just under well - depending on the fat content. If it's really fatty, I'll go to just under well. I just do not like to chew on beef fat, and due to the fat, they are still really tender at just under well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 26, 2022, 07:11:26 PM

All ribeyes are too fatty for me.  The fat won't render under normal grilling times and temps, so it just comes out as gross chewy fat.

Strip is my preferred cut for steaks that are grilled.  Medium rare is my preferred temp for that steak.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 26, 2022, 07:29:55 PM

Cutting the fat off the edge is easy.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 26, 2022, 08:12:47 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 26, 2022, 07:29:55 PM

Cutting the fat off the edge is easy. 

And if that's what we were talking about you might have a point. 

But it's not.

And you don't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 26, 2022, 08:25:16 PM

I'm a strip or Porterhouse/T-bone guy myself

ribeyes are most times too fatty for me, but I still won't cook them to medium

gotta be medium rare

once in a blue moon ya great a GREAT ribeye that isn't fatty and it can be fantastic

doesn't happen often enough to chance it

now, if I selecting out of the locker/meat case, I'll maybe select a ribeye cause I can check it 

this is why that cut is good for prime rib, oven cooking slower or smoking low and slow can render more of the fat

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 26, 2022, 08:30:19 PM

The ribeye is supposed to be fatty.  I don't blame it for being what it is.

I just have no desire to chew through that fatty grossness.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 26, 2022, 09:12:42 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 26, 2022, 08:12:47 PM

And if that's what we were talking about you might have a point.

But it's not.

And you don't.

:57:  I'll stop, it's not fun when it's too easy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 27, 2022, 06:53:04 AM

Note the amount of fat in a ribeye, on the edges.

(https://i.imgur.com/wcnBQL5.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on December 27, 2022, 07:36:41 AM

I'm definitely all ribeye. Strip and tenderloin are too bland to be worth the squeeze. I did make some tenderloin flavorful enough to eat, but it involved slicing it thin, marinating it, then putting it on a stick. It was good, but it's price point makes that pretty rare. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 27, 2022, 09:01:27 AM

It takes all kinds, as they say.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 27, 2022, 09:14:37 AM

Ground ribeye is really good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 27, 2022, 09:58:09 AM

no need to add tallow

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 27, 2022, 10:32:42 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on December 27, 2022, 07:36:41 AM

I'm definitely all ribeye. Strip and tenderloin are too bland to be worth the squeeze. I did make some tenderloin flavorful enough to eat, but it involved slicing it thin, marinating it, then putting it on a stick. It was good, but it's price point makes that pretty rare.

100%. For me, ribeye is where it's at. I'd take that over a filet any day of the week. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 27, 2022, 10:35:28 AM

you guys ever try the Japanese A5 wagyu? I bought a NY strip and a ribeye at couple different butcher shops to cook at home. Want to say they were $119/lbs and $129/lbs. Totally definitely 100% not worth it imo. Think that sh*t is just a gimmick. And it's so fatty you really can't eat more than 4-6 oz without getting a stomach ache. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 27, 2022, 10:40:04 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 27, 2022, 10:35:28 AM

you guys ever try the Japanese A5 wagyu? I bought a NY strip and a ribeye at couple different butcher shops to cook at home. Want to say they were $119/lbs and $129/lbs. Totally definitely 100% not worth it imo. Think that sh*t is just a gimmick. And it's so fatty you really can't eat more than 4-6 oz without getting a stomach ache.

It makes good ground beef for hamburgers. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 27, 2022, 10:42:34 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 27, 2022, 10:35:28 AM

you guys ever try the Japanese A5 wagyu? I bought a NY strip and a ribeye at couple different butcher shops to cook at home. Want to say they were $119/lbs and $129/lbs. Totally definitely 100% not worth it imo. Think that sh*t is just a gimmick. And it's so fatty you really can't eat more than 4-6 oz without getting a stomach ache.

Agree 100 percent. Can't eat that stuff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 27, 2022, 10:43:54 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 27, 2022, 10:40:04 AM

It makes good ground beef for hamburgers. :)

man that's an expensive ass hamburger lol. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 27, 2022, 10:44:29 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 27, 2022, 10:42:34 AM

Agree 100 percent. Can't eat that stuff.

yeah you don't even cook it with oil, and by the time it's done cooking so much fat has rendered out it looks like you cooked the steak with a gallon of oil. it's kinda gross imo. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 27, 2022, 10:59:42 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 27, 2022, 10:43:54 AM

man that's an expensive ass hamburger lol.

I'm an arrogant wealthy Texican, that's peanuts to me.  I wipe mud off my boots with $100 bills.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 27, 2022, 11:01:03 AM

I feel the same way about dry aged steaks.  They have a certain flavor I guess I'm not used to.  My wife likes ribeyes so I usually get them at Costco (or a local butcher).  And she like the tenderloin as well.  I've mentioned flatirons before, they have the best overall flavor in my opinion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 27, 2022, 11:10:40 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 27, 2022, 11:01:03 AM

I feel the same way about dry aged steaks.  They have a certain flavor I guess I'm not used to.  My wife likes ribeyes so I usually get them at Costco (or a local butcher).  And she like the tenderloin as well.  I've mentioned flatirons before, they have the best overall flavor in my opinion.

dude 100% agree. I bought a dry aged tomahawk from wild fork, $80. Bought the regular ass tomahawk from them a week later, $30. Couldn't tell a difference hardly at all. It's like, why did I waste that $50 for? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 27, 2022, 11:19:10 AM

Dry aging adds a certain flavor that can be off-putting to some (and at times me).

And yeah - flat iron is my favorite steak. Hard to find it here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 27, 2022, 11:27:48 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 27, 2022, 11:19:10 AM

Dry aging adds a certain flavor that can be off-putting to some (and at times me).

And yeah - flat iron is my favorite steak. Hard to find it here.

is there a wild fork near you? google it, meats are all froze but they literally have every kind of cut and every single meat you can think of. it's honestly kinda nuts. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 27, 2022, 11:38:30 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 27, 2022, 11:27:48 AM

is there a wild fork near you? google it, meats are all froze but they literally have every kind of cut and every single meat you can think of. it's honestly kinda nuts.

I was thinking about joining their website. It's like $2.50/month and it includes shipping.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 27, 2022, 11:48:29 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 27, 2022, 11:38:30 AM

I was thinking about joining their website. It's like $2.50/month and it includes shipping.

oh man if they ship right to your house I'd say do it. they have everything you can think of. prime, dry aged, wagyu- every single cut of meat and every single type of meat from ostrich to alligator to lamb to bison- even lot of seafood. pretty good quality stuff as well imo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 27, 2022, 11:58:31 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 27, 2022, 11:48:29 AM

oh man if they ship right to your house I'd say do it. they have everything you can think of. prime, dry aged, wagyu- every single cut of meat and every single type of meat from ostrich to alligator to lamb to bison- even lot of seafood. pretty good quality stuff as well imo.

They are out of NYC, correct?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 27, 2022, 12:43:41 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 27, 2022, 11:58:31 AM

They are out of NYC, correct?

I googled it. It’s actually owned by some giant conglomerate out of Brazil called JBS. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 27, 2022, 12:53:44 PM

Those Brazilians know their meat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 27, 2022, 12:55:28 PM

Meat and seafood market delivered to your door – Wild Fork Foods (https://wildforkfoods.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 27, 2022, 03:30:38 PM

I've been to a brazilian steakhouse in Brazil.  It was very much like the ones here.  The best steak I've had out was at Eddie Merlot's, a tomahawk ribeye.  We had our wedding dinner there, they treated us well, I had a wine locker there.

My wife said she liked the tenderloin a lot, but I didn't get it cooked like I wanted.  It was too cold to sear it on the grill.  I tried in a cast iron skillet.

It was good, but not  great, my bad.

We should probably have a pinned cooking thread somewhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 27, 2022, 03:31:23 PM

Did I mention my next book is out?  I am under a nom de plume, whatever that means, it's fantasy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 27, 2022, 04:08:14 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 27, 2022, 12:53:44 PM

Those Brazilians know their meat.

They also know their Brazilians.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 27, 2022, 11:51:32 PM

I'd like to try Waygu or whatever it is but, if someone else is buying

not willing to pay that much to find out

I will pay some more for dry aged - I enjoy that flavor and tenderness at times

the brazilian steakhouses are fine once in a while

I do like to balance my meal with some salad veggies starch

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 28, 2022, 01:47:10 AM

not a fan of the NBA, especially today, but to see Luka Doncic put up 60+ points, 20+ rebounds, and 10 assists in a game is pretty remarkable. He also had 2 steals and shot 68% from the field. Dude has to be the best player in the NBA and he's a 23 year old from Slovenia. 

0-13,884. OH and 13,884. 

https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/status/1607961306472103936?s=20&t=g_Njt8L1OrnxWEg8pa3WVA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on December 28, 2022, 08:06:02 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 28, 2022, 01:47:10 AM

not a fan of the NBA, especially today, but to see Luka Doncic put up 60+ points, 20+ rebounds, and 10 assists in a game is pretty remarkable. He also had 2 steals and shot 68% from the field. Dude has to be the best player in the NBA and he's a 23 year old from Slovenia.

0-13,884. OH and 13,884.

https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/status/1607961306472103936?s=20&t=g_Njt8L1OrnxWEg8pa3WVA

He is easily one of the most fun players to watch in the NBA. I wish the league didn't seem intent on making their sport completely unwatchable, I might actually try to watch some. As it stands, I'll tune in to a couple playoff games next summer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 28, 2022, 10:52:26 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 27, 2022, 11:51:32 PM

I'd like to try Waygu or whatever it is but, if someone else is buying

It's akin to "prime plus" in effect, not really my taste.  I prefer grain fed choice over prime usually.  As everyone knows, the ribeye is already fatty, maybe wagyu makes some sense with strips or even sirloin.  I did try a wagyu sirloin, or so it was labeled, but it wasn't that good IMHO.

I'm not sure wagyu has any FDA designation anyway.  It's akin to "hypoallergenic", it means nada, probably.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 28, 2022, 10:59:55 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 28, 2022, 10:52:26 AM

It's akin to "prime plus" in effect, not really my taste.  I prefer grain fed choice over prime usually.  As everyone knows, the ribeye is already fatty, maybe wagyu makes some sense with strips or even sirloin.  I did try a wagyu sirloin, or so it was labeled, but it wasn't that good IMHO.

I'm not sure wagyu has any FDA designation anyway.  It's akin to "hypoallergenic", it means nada, probably.

No such thing, when it comes to animals. My nose knows.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 28, 2022, 11:01:34 AM

A lot of the branding/claims on cosmetics are made up terms meaning nothing, like "not tested on animals".  Baloney.

I'd be hard pressed to think of any ingredient that was not tested on animals at some point beyond things never used in cosmetics anyway.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 28, 2022, 11:11:28 AM

I understand marbling in meat

more is usually better, but as with everything, there's probably a limit

I do not enjoy the NBA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 28, 2022, 11:13:46 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 28, 2022, 01:47:10 AM

not a fan of the NBA, especially today, but to see Luka Doncic put up 60+ points, 20+ rebounds, and 10 assists in a game is pretty remarkable. He also had 2 steals and shot 68% from the field. Dude has to be the best player in the NBA and he's a 23 year old from Slovenia.

👀😎

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 28, 2022, 01:09:11 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/rDwCMX8.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on December 28, 2022, 04:29:56 PM

I don't love to mail order steaks because you don't really get to inspect what you are getting. If you look long enough you can usually find a good marbled steak among the various options. You can also get prime options that aren't that marbled. I'm sure some of these services do a great job, but that is my worry.

Wagyu is a breed of cattle. Or one of four breeds. To sell wagyu beef in the U.S. it has to be at least 50% wagyu, so most of it is crossbred with another breed, like a cow goldendoodle. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on December 28, 2022, 04:45:33 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on December 28, 2022, 04:29:56 PM

I don't love to mail order steaks because you don't really get to inspect what you are getting. If you look long enough you can usually find a good marbled steak among the various options. You can also get prime options that aren't that marbled. I'm sure some of these services do a great job, but that is my worry.

Wagyu is a breed of cattle. Or one of four breeds. To sell wagyu beef in the U.S. it has to be at least 50% wagyu, so most of it is crossbred with another breed, like a cow goldendoodle.

related: i was in the UP of Michigan a few years back around this time of year... it was -2xF* and less every night I was there.  driving out to 'camp' and literally plowing snow with the bumper of that truck which rode on 37" tires, I passed through a pasture... in the corner of the pasture near the woodline a group of cattle were bunched up.... they were black as angus are, but they had long hair- like, really long.... looked like a dang ox their hair was so long.  

i asked the breed and was told "Angus" as if it was obvious... and i protested- "Angus don't have hair like those things"... turns out, they do, but they aren't the same breeding as what I'm accustomed to down south.  ......... they get eaten the same way, though. 

I have an acquaintance up there who owns a butchery- processes from hoof to cooler.  He wants out of the business and it has suffered tremendously since he's started spending most his time in Dominican Republic and Costa Rica, where he owns houses.... the majority of his customers are restaurants and they, as everywhere else, get the lions share of 'prime'... however... I can still get prime ribeye roasts either standing or boneless, and other prime cuts on demand.  I begged him to kick off a ship-to interweb business, but he refuses... would rather sell me the operation--- and that ain't gonna happen.... i don't do cold like that and that friggin town had the record for most consecutive days under zero of any in the nation- to include Alaska- at 94 iirc... 

it amazes me the difference in beef quality across the same breed yet geographically spread... it's a similar story to the guy who wrote the story about types of wood to smoke with being far less important than where whatever wood originated.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 28, 2022, 05:03:52 PM

What is Wagyu? | American Wagyu Association (https://wagyu.org/breed-info/what-is-wagyu)

I couldn't find if the term is enforced or whether anyone can claim their beef is wagyu, same as black angus.  I lean to not trusting such labels.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 28, 2022, 07:15:13 PM

marbling has more to do with what and how the cattle are fed than breed

good breeding is important, but not necessarily the type of breed 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 28, 2022, 08:49:01 PM

Good go eat some Longhorn - beef not cheerleader

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 28, 2022, 09:02:50 PM

the only real wagyu is from Japan, it’s from a specific Japanese breed, and the highest grade is A5 and it’s expensive as hell. Minimum of $119/lb for a steak and even higher. Costco sells it at some locations. Wild Fork sells it. And then there are high end local butcher shops that should carry it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 28, 2022, 11:05:00 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 28, 2022, 08:49:01 PM

Good go eat some Longhorn - beef not cheerleader

Longhorns were bred to be survivors.  They're typically known for being tough and stringy.  Nobody eats them anymore.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 28, 2022, 11:27:43 PM

I wouldn't say nobody

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 28, 2022, 11:31:27 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 28, 2022, 11:27:43 PM

I wouldn't say nobody

Nobody with any sense, then....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 28, 2022, 11:32:32 PM

there ya go

you'd have to be pretty hungry

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 28, 2022, 11:38:23 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 28, 2022, 11:32:32 PM

there ya go

you'd have to be pretty hungry

Everyone around here breeds them for show.  Ain't nobody eating them, with all the other, better options available.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 29, 2022, 12:01:35 AM

utee is correct

this will answer your longhorn questions

http://www.6crlonghorns.com/FAQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on December 29, 2022, 12:52:17 AM

I was out on Christmas Eve for a fancy dinner, and they had an A5 cut on the menu, it was priced over $120 for the steak.  They even sold an 'A5 butter' topping.    Uh, no.   

I am going to defend a ribeye steak a little bit here.   Yes, there's fat, often a lot, but it really is a very delicious steak.   In my view its all about the cut.  Too thick, not good, you're going to have an outlandishly large slab of 'bad fat' left on the plate.  No chance to hit that at medium (med rare) and do much with all that fat.  Even at the right thickness of cut, you still may have too much interior fat which crowds out the ribeye cap which I find to be my favorite part of the ribeye.    An ideal 16oz ribeye after eating, you'll be left with a strip of fat left over between the cap and the center cut.  that fatty strip will be at most 1/2 inch wide and about five inches long.   

at a restaurant that can be a dice roll, but butcher can't hide that from me.

NY Strip is perfectly fine, and easy to stay clear of fat land.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 29, 2022, 07:39:55 AM

I've often thought pork chops were quite good, comparable to steak if done properly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 29, 2022, 08:40:05 AM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on December 28, 2022, 04:45:33 PM

related: i was in the UP of Michigan a few years back around this time of year... it was -2xF* and less every night I was there.  driving out to 'camp' and literally plowing snow with the bumper of that truck which rode on 37" tires, I passed through a pasture... in the corner of the pasture near the woodline a group of cattle were bunched up.... they were black as angus are, but they had long hair- like, really long.... looked like a dang ox their hair was so long. 

i asked the breed and was told "Angus" as if it was obvious... and i protested- "Angus don't have hair like those things"... turns out, they do, but they aren't the same breeding as what I'm accustomed to down south.  ......... they get eaten the same way, though.

I have an acquaintance up there who owns a butchery- processes from hoof to cooler.  He wants out of the business and it has suffered tremendously since he's started spending most his time in Dominican Republic and Costa Rica, where he owns houses.... the majority of his customers are restaurants and they, as everywhere else, get the lions share of 'prime'... however... I can still get prime ribeye roasts either standing or boneless, and other prime cuts on demand.  I begged him to kick off a ship-to interweb business, but he refuses... would rather sell me the operation--- and that ain't gonna happen.... i don't do cold like that and that friggin town had the record for most consecutive days under zero of any in the nation- to include Alaska- at 94 iirc...

it amazes me the difference in beef quality across the same breed yet geographically spread... it's a similar story to the guy who wrote the story about types of wood to smoke with being far less important than where whatever wood originated. 

That's a tough business, and even more tough when it's that cold all the time. I've seen ice on Lake Superior in... June!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 29, 2022, 09:04:40 AM

I don't know if the cattle breed (or origin) is any more important than how the cow is fed in a feed lot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 29, 2022, 09:08:10 AM

European natural gas prices return to pre-Ukraine war levels (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/29/european-natural-gas-prices-return-to-pre-ukraine-war-levels.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 29, 2022, 12:43:15 PM

B1G commish and total asswipe Kevin Warren leaving to be the President and CEO of the Chicago Bears. The Bears really don’t ever want to win lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 29, 2022, 12:44:57 PM

Thousands Of Spirit Airlines Passengers Disappointed Their Flights Weren't Canceled | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/thousands-of-spirit-airlines-passengers-disappointed-their-flights-werent-cancelled?utm_source=The Babylon Bee)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 29, 2022, 12:54:17 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/LWTQSxc.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 29, 2022, 12:55:54 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 29, 2022, 12:43:15 PM

B1G commish and total asswipe Kevin Warren leaving to be the President and CEO of the Chicago Bears. The Bears really don’t ever want to win lol.

The Bears need to be sold.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on December 29, 2022, 05:33:30 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 29, 2022, 12:44:57 PM

Thousands Of Spirit Airlines Passengers Disappointed Their Flights Weren't Canceled | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/thousands-of-spirit-airlines-passengers-disappointed-their-flights-werent-cancelled?utm_source=The Babylon Bee)

Funny.

Flew to WY today to hang w folks for a bit today.  Super weird jndy airport scene.  Eerily slow of course as SW is basically running no flights out of Indy this week and yet every other flight has about 30 people flying standby as displaced SW passengers rolling the dice.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on December 29, 2022, 10:49:57 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 29, 2022, 12:43:15 PM

B1G commish and total asswipe Kevin Warren leaving to be the President and CEO of the Chicago Bears. The Bears really don’t ever want to win lol.

The Bears will never amount to anything so long as they remain in the Halas-McCaskey family.

The only reason this hire makes any sense is to oversee the process of funding the new stadium and getting it through the regulatory process. He'll be sacked at the end of that and replaced with a construction boss. If the Bears win 5 games a year it'll be gravy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 29, 2022, 11:11:29 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on December 29, 2022, 10:49:57 PM

The Bears will never amount to anything so long as they remain in the Halas-McCaskey family.

The only reason this hire makes any sense is to oversee the process of funding the new stadium and getting it through the regulatory process. He'll be sacked at the end of that and replaced with a construction boss. If the Bears win 5 games a year it'll be gravy.

same deal as the Ford family. Problem with these old timer NFL owners is they bought these teams for literally nothing and the teams are now worth $5+ billion. If the friggin' Broncos just sold for $4.65 billion, how much do you think the Bears are going for at auction? My guess is at least $6 billion. When these teams are worth that much dough and throw off that much money, these day one owners almost have no incentive to ever sell. Especially when they'll have to pay astronomical capital gains taxes. They can just borrow money from any bank or private lender on planet earth at low interest rates and put shares in the team up as collateral and service all the debt with the cash flow generated from the ridiculous TV contracts, ticket sales, concession sales, and merchandise sales.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 30, 2022, 07:37:57 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 29, 2022, 11:11:29 PM

same deal as the Ford family. Problem with these old timer NFL owners is they bought these teams for literally nothing and the teams are now worth $5+ billion. If the friggin' Broncos just sold for $4.65 billion, how much do you think the Bears are going for at auction? My guess is at least $6 billion. When these teams are worth that much dough and throw off that much money, these day one owners almost have no incentive to ever sell. Especially when they'll have to pay astronomical capital gains taxes. They can just borrow money from any bank or private lender on planet earth at low interest rates and put shares in the team up as collateral and service all the debt with the cash flow generated from the ridiculous TV contracts, ticket sales, concession sales, and merchandise sales.

Hopefully the Bears are a Delaware corporation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 30, 2022, 07:49:29 AM

The Chicago Bears Football Club, Inc, a company registered in USA (Delaware) with registration number 924822, and with registered office at 1920 Football Drive, Lake Forest, IL 60045 (United States), 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 30, 2022, 09:16:37 AM

The yin and yang of climate science | Climate Etc. (judithcurry.com) (https://judithcurry.com/2022/12/29/the-yin-and-yang-of-climate-science/#more-29530)

The epidemiology of the pandemic provided far greater challenges.  Early in the pandemic, scientists, at least in the west, spoke with one voice and great authority. They claimed that 2 to 3 out of every 100 infected people will die, the virus spread by droplets and surfaces, there was no immunity after infection, and all ages were equally at risk.  These claims guided early covid policy in the U.S. However, these claims did not survive further scientific scrutiny and turned out to be wrong.  Many of these early policies backfired in tragic ways, particularly for the elderly and children.

So what went wrong?  The scientists failed to acknowledge uncertainty and ignorance. An elite group of scientists manufactured a consensus in an attempt to assert authority with the objective of controlling the virus. Attempts to squash disagreement and cancel scientists who disagreed delayed resolution of these mistaken claims and perpetuated these early bad policies.

The pandemic is clearly an issue for which facts are uncertain, values are in dispute, stakes are high & decisions are urgent, which characterizes post-normal science.  Post-normal science doesn’t seek to control, but rather to manage, in a way that seeks robustness in policy strategies.  In postnormal science, management of uncertainty and evaluating knowledge quality are paramount.  Postnormal science seeks to diversify the knowledge base beyond elite scientists. This occurs in context of an extended peer community that enables broader scientific and public contributions, understanding and acceptance.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 30, 2022, 12:33:02 PM

17 photos: Midtown's SimCity impression continues as 2022 concludes | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/midtown-development-construction-skyline-photos-2022-concludes)

(https://i.imgur.com/JrVgXV2.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 30, 2022, 12:56:46 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/GIuCBhF.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on December 30, 2022, 04:40:27 PM

Remaining original ruins of the Heart Mountain Japanese American Internment Camp.  Excellent museum and interpretive center.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on December 30, 2022, 04:41:30 PM

Cristiano Ronaldo who is arguably the most famous athlete on planet earth- it’s either him or Lionel Messi- signs a contract with a Saudi Arabian club.

The deal is said to be 3 years guaranteed and Ronaldo is said to be making $213 million PER YEAR.

Holy shit. NIL ain’t shit lol.

Guy has enough money I’d imagine. But how can you turn down $600+ million more lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 30, 2022, 05:40:49 PM

The apocalypse is upon us

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 30, 2022, 11:01:23 PM

Again?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 31, 2022, 08:26:02 AM

Recent picture of the Home Depot by my house. I know we had a hurricane, but it was 3 months ago, and I'm pretty sure Home Depot carries light bulbs in house.

(https://i.imgur.com/C9RRnWW.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 31, 2022, 08:31:03 AM

I see one of their two founders got into a bit of trouble on the Internet (not that he cares) for saying socialism doesn't work.  Both of them have donated a ton of money for stuff around here.

This is why most wealthy folks keep their mouths shut.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 31, 2022, 08:34:34 AM

Opinion: Trump's tax returns are much to do about nothings | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/30/opinions/trump-tax-returns-mccaffery/index.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on December 31, 2022, 09:12:19 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on December 30, 2022, 04:41:30 PM

Cristiano Ronaldo who is arguably the most famous athlete on planet earth- it’s either him or Lionel Messi- signs a contract with a Saudi Arabian club.

The deal is said to be 3 years guaranteed and Ronaldo is said to be making $213 million PER YEAR.

Holy shit. NIL ain’t shit lol.

Guy has enough money I’d imagine. But how can you turn down $600+ million more lol.

Never heard of him. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 31, 2022, 09:34:11 AM

I had heard of him, a bit, usually as "Ronaldo", but obviously soccer here is eighth string stuff.

It is rather interesting, I think it's not much in Canada either.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 31, 2022, 10:23:42 AM

Happy New Years Eve everybody

I thought I'd pass on something that happened to me so just in case it happens to you you'll be ready

I have a PayPal account and use it maybe 10 times a year

I got an email from PayPal saying someone was making a cash request to my account for $650

I went to my account and sure enough there was a $650 request for cash that was pending in my activity report

Someone that I didnt know just decided to reach out and take my money

I quickly cancelled the request and contacted PayPal to tell them what happened

Its amazing the balls some folks have

So if you use PayPal be aware of this scam

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on December 31, 2022, 10:36:44 AM

Just one of the many ways to get scammed. I’ve heard from people who had fraudulent charges on CC that are safely locked away in a safe, never used.  Gas station fake readers, skimmers, gift cards that get pulled from. 

Happy New Year! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 31, 2022, 10:36:53 AM

I've experienced the same thing. People have no morals anymore.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 31, 2022, 10:57:26 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 31, 2022, 08:34:34 AM

Opinion: Trump's tax returns are much to do about nothings | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/30/opinions/trump-tax-returns-mccaffery/index.html)

Like everything else related to Trump since he moved out of the white house 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 31, 2022, 10:59:40 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 31, 2022, 10:23:42 AM

Its amazing the balls some folks have

So if you use PayPal be aware of this scam

Um checks & balances - cyber security ask them if they heard of it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 31, 2022, 10:59:48 AM

The thing is they dont have to have any info on your paswords or anything to do this

All they need to do is set up a PayPal account and then just submit cash requests on anyone who also has a PayPal account

To PayPals credit they remove these folks as soon as they find out about them but many times youve already been robbed

Its very possible you could still get your money back but what a lot of effort you will have to go through

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 31, 2022, 11:03:23 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 31, 2022, 10:59:48 AM

The thing is they dont have to have any info on your paswords or anything to do this

All they need to do is set up a PayPal account and then just submit cash requests on anyone who also has a PayPal account

To PayPals credit they remove these folks as soon as they find out about them but many times youve already been robbed

Its very possible you could still get your money back but what a lot of effort you will have to go through

Never used PP but this transaction would conceivably need some participation from your account - correct?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 31, 2022, 11:08:27 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 31, 2022, 11:03:23 AM

Never used PP but this transaction would conceivably need some participation from your account - correct?

All they need to know is your name and email address or phone number and that you also have a PayPal account

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 31, 2022, 11:13:41 AM

PS Im pretty sure PayPal wont send the money without you logging on and instructing them to either cancel or send it so there is some protection

what they are counting on is a PayPal user with so many daily transactions that they approve it not realizing its a scam

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 31, 2022, 11:24:17 AM

Someone bought some lawn mower parts with my PayPal account.  Less than $200.  PayPal refunded my money and told me to change my password 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 31, 2022, 11:40:53 AM

Maybe they should ask Barney Fife to step down as head of security

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 31, 2022, 12:40:05 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 31, 2022, 11:40:53 AM

Maybe they should ask Barney Fife to step down as head of security

nip it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 01, 2023, 12:02:57 PM

Travel tip:

I had the cruise company (NCL) make air reservations for us to Dubai, the tickets are not upgradeable.  My wife called and discovered that the plane has center row seats that have extra room on the exit row aisles, which makes sense.  It cost a bit extra to get them but it's a 12+ hour flight.

Coming back it's a 787 Dreamliner, I've never been on one before.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 01, 2023, 12:11:58 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 31, 2022, 12:40:05 PM

nip it

The Nips have nothing to do with it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 01, 2023, 12:13:06 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 31, 2022, 11:13:41 AM

PS Im pretty sure PayPal wont send the money without you logging on and instructing them to either cancel or send it so there is some protection

what they are counting on is a PayPal user with so many daily transactions that they approve it not realizing its a scam

I was gonna say, this is a pretty low-end scam. Not much work to it. You just have to be paying attention to your money. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 02, 2023, 08:11:20 PM

Biden has been waging a battle with oil companies over the last few months, but he escalated it in November when he called on them to “act beyond their narrow self-interest,” to “invest in America by increasing production and refining capacity” on behalf of “their consumers, their community and their country.”

And if they don’t? Biden warns they’re going to face “a higher tax on their excess profits and … higher restrictions.”

The president didn’t elaborate on what those restrictions might be, but promised his administration would work with Congress to evaluate all the available options.

“It’s time for these companies to stop war profiteering, meet their responsibilities in this country and give the American people a break,” Biden added.

Oil companies fire back
While gas has dropped from a record high of over $5/gallon in June, it’s still currently hovering around $3.21. And that, along with a dangerously low oil supply and a dwindling diesel stockpile is clearly weighing on Biden.

But oil companies argue they’re already contributing to the cause. Exxon Mobil’s CEO Darren Woods took a moment during the company’s third-quarter earnings call on Oct. 28 to address Biden. “There has been discussion in the U.S. about our industry returning some of our profits directly to the American people,” Woods said. “That’s exactly what we’re doing in the form of our quarterly dividend."

The president didn’t take kindly to that, tweeting his response a few hours later: “Can’t believe I have to say this but giving profits to shareholders is not the same as bringing prices down for American families.”

Any taxes would face an uphill battle
Biden appears to be proposing a “windfall” tax to redistribute profits to American consumers still paying out the nose at the pump. But even with Biden’s backing, there’s no guarantee he’ll be able to pass a new corporate tax. For that, he’d need support from Congress and with a Senate divided in half between Republicans and Democrats, that seems unlikely.

He does seem prepared to compromise, though. According to a report in Bloomberg, Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm addressed oil and gas executives in Washington on Wednesday at a meeting of the National Petroleum Council, an outside federal advisory group with members from Exxon Mobil Corp. and Royal Dutch Shell Plc.

“We are eager to work with you,” Granholm said, adding that fossil fuels are likely to be around for a while.

She also acknowledged the administration has "butted heads" with the industry, referring to it as the “elephant in the room." And with growing demand and a shortage of diesel in the Northeast, she says the administration is aware fossil fuel production will need to increase soon.

Still, the president isn’t likely to back down entirely. In November, Exxon and Chevron, two of the country’s biggest oil companies, reported hefty profits for the fourth consecutive quarter. That same day, in a briefing from the White House, Biden pointed out that six of the largest companies “made $70 billion in profit” in just 90 days.

Appalled that all that money was going back to their shareholders and executives, Biden issued a promise: “I’m going to keep harping on it. [These companies] talk about me picking on them, they ain’t seen nothing yet. I mean it. It outrages me.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 02, 2023, 08:36:09 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 01, 2023, 12:13:06 PM

I was gonna say, this is a pretty low-end scam. Not much work to it. You just have to be paying attention to your money.

Low-end scams are great, if they're high-volume.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on January 03, 2023, 10:57:39 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 29, 2022, 12:44:57 PM

Thousands Of Spirit Airlines Passengers Disappointed Their Flights Weren't Canceled | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/thousands-of-spirit-airlines-passengers-disappointed-their-flights-werent-cancelled?utm_source=The Babylon Bee)

My son was flying on Spirit the day after Christmas, trying to get home from Miss, flying out of New Orleans. He made to Atlanta and his connecting flight to Cleveland was canceled. They said they would be able to get him on a flight Friday, but nothing until then. 

I left the house on Monday evening, at about 6:00 pm and drove to Atlanta. I picked him up at about 3:30am and headed home, arriving at about 2:00pm Tuesday. I'm sending a bill to Spirit for $937 for milage, lol. If they argue it, I will then include my billable time which will exceel $150 per hour. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 03, 2023, 11:08:49 AM

good luck

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 03, 2023, 11:14:13 AM

Well Cinci Dawgs got his wings e-mail him next time @transdebrisairlines.come

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 04, 2023, 09:11:14 AM

It's pouring rain here, and my wife wanted me to drive my step son to the airport.  Ugh.  White knuckle time, portions of the freeway were flooded maybe 6 inches near the airport.  It's never a pleasant drive, but coming back at 7 AM was a bit harrowing, there are enough "touristers" in the wrong lane every time ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 04, 2023, 09:16:20 AM

Anyone know where this is?

(https://i.imgur.com/Cu8S7RB.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 04, 2023, 09:26:28 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 04, 2023, 09:11:14 AM

It's pouring rain here, and my wife wanted me to drive my step son to the airport.  Ugh.  White knuckle time, portions of the freeway were flooded maybe 6 inches near the airport.  It's never a pleasant drive, but coming back at 7 AM was a bit harrowing, there are enough "touristers" in the wrong lane every time ...

6 inches of frozen rain would have been more fun
we have ice under snow
travel is NOT advised

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 04, 2023, 09:41:05 AM

An ice storm around here shuts everything down.  Had that happened, we MIGHT have been able to walk to MARTA and get to the airport, but it was raining pretty hard.  I've been in ice storms where I couldn't stand up on a sidewalk for long, and any tilt and I'm gone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 04, 2023, 09:48:09 AM

I wear these for ice fishing if there's little snow

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51XMO5HBNbL._AC_SY1000_.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 04, 2023, 09:51:50 AM

Yeah, not really a pressing need around here, usually.  If we got an ice storm, I'd just stay at home a day.  The next day it'd be 50°F.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 04, 2023, 10:09:30 AM

unless you need to get to the airport

you gotta pair of ole baseball cleats layin around in the bottom of a closet, right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 04, 2023, 10:26:37 AM

I just packed my baseball cleats.  We're leaving tomorrow for Orlando for five days so I can train in good weather, then to North Port for Camp One.  They had two camps this year and I signed up for both, not sure my legs are up to it.  I get two days in between at least.

My wife claims she's excited, but I think she's just being a good sport.  In February we're off again on  an 18 day cruise.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 04, 2023, 10:31:10 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 04, 2023, 10:26:37 AM

I just packed my baseball cleats.  We're leaving tomorrow for Orlando for five days so I can train in good weather, then to North Port for Camp One.  They had two camps this year and I signed up for both, not sure my legs are up to it.  I get two days in between at least.

My wife claims she's excited, but I think she's just being a good sport.  In February we're off again on  an 18 day cruise.

Sounds like fun, CD.  What will she do while you're in camp?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 04, 2023, 10:46:33 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 04, 2023, 10:26:37 AM

I just packed my baseball cleats.  We're leaving tomorrow for Orlando for five days so I can train in good weather, then to North Port for Camp One.  They had two camps this year and I signed up for both, not sure my legs are up to it.  I get two days in between at least.

So the youngest of the Niekro Boys is coming out of retirement,AGAIN?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 04, 2023, 11:09:57 AM

She likes to sleep late, I get up around 6 AM.  She gets breakfast (they put us at a Hampton Inn) and then lounges by the pool or goes with some other wives for a massage etc., then lunch, then she comes to my afternoon game.  In the evening, they have a dinner/event every night she attends with me.

So it's an easy time for her.  I come away usually beat up and sore.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 04, 2023, 09:36:08 PM

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cm3b1NlDunw/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= (https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cm3b1NlDunw/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=)

Herby,Fowler,Davis,Pollack,MacAfee chatting on a flight to LA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 04, 2023, 11:48:08 PM

Omaha’s streetcar project is speeding ahead, but Warren Buffett is not on board.

In a letter to the World-Herald, the 92-year-old billionaire noted that he rarely takes sides on local issues in his hometown, but decided to “make an exception on the streetcar issue.”

“It’s an important matter,” he wrote, “and it’s going to be hugely expensive if implemented.”

Omaha’s streetcar system overcame its last major hurdle on the road to construction earlier this month with the approval of $440 million in bonds to pay for the project. The project is also contractually tied to the development of a Mutual of Omaha skyscraper in downtown Omaha, a detail that adds pressure to the streetcar’s progress.

It would be difficult for anyone to tap the brakes now — even the Oracle of Omaha himself.

Still, Buffett urged caution and suggested that the city instead invest in Omaha’s bus system.

“Residents can be far better served by extended or more intensive service by the bus system,” Buffett wrote. “As population, commerce and desired destinations shift, a bus system can be re-engineered. Streetcars keep mindlessly rolling on, fueled by large public subsidies. Mistakes are literally cast in cement.”

Construction costs alone are estimated at $306 million.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on January 04, 2023, 11:48:12 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 04, 2023, 09:16:20 AM

Anyone know where this is?

(https://i.imgur.com/Cu8S7RB.png)

World's largest stainless steel rack of ribs?   Under the lid of a massive piano.   An oversized typewriter, this being the type bars

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on January 04, 2023, 11:50:16 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 04, 2023, 11:48:08 PM

Omaha’s streetcar project is speeding ahead, but Warren Buffett is not on board.

In a letter to the World-Herald, the 92-year-old billionaire noted that he rarely takes sides on local issues in his hometown, but decided to “make an exception on the streetcar issue.”

“It’s an important matter,” he wrote, “and it’s going to be hugely expensive if implemented.”

Omaha’s streetcar system overcame its last major hurdle on the road to construction earlier this month with the approval of $440 million in bonds to pay for the project. The project is also contractually tied to the development of a Mutual of Omaha skyscraper in downtown Omaha, a detail that adds pressure to the streetcar’s progress.

It would be difficult for anyone to tap the brakes now — even the Oracle of Omaha himself.

Still, Buffett urged caution and suggested that the city instead invest in Omaha’s bus system.

“Residents can be far better served by extended or more intensive service by the bus system,” Buffett wrote. “As population, commerce and desired destinations shift, a bus system can be re-engineered. Streetcars keep mindlessly rolling on, fueled by large public subsidies. Mistakes are literally cast in cement.”

Construction costs alone are estimated at $306 million.

there's a strange fetish for 19th C tech in this country in some circles.     

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 04, 2023, 11:54:56 PM

I was thinking ribs, too.  The ribcage of our first constructed Jaeger to combat a real, live (but unknown to us) Kaiju!?!?!?!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 04, 2023, 11:55:32 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on January 04, 2023, 11:50:16 PM

there's a strange fetish for 19th C tech in this country in some circles.   

Expensive and stationary vs cheaper and mobile

Easy choice.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 05, 2023, 12:15:24 AM

Streetcars are quaint and romantic.  They're named Desire and whatnot.

Only love story ever happened on a bus, was doomed to explode.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 05, 2023, 05:15:58 AM

The street cars in ATL and Cincy are barely used, and pointless wastes of money.  Really horrible ideas.

And they bog down traffic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 05, 2023, 10:56:40 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 04, 2023, 10:26:37 AM

I just packed my baseball cleats.  We're leaving tomorrow for Orlando for five days so I can train in good weather, then to North Port for Camp One.  They had two camps this year and I signed up for both, not sure my legs are up to it.  I get two days in between at least.

My wife claims she's excited, but I think she's just being a good sport.  In February we're off again on  an 18 day cruise.

When will you be in North Port?

I'm in Cabo until 1/16.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on January 05, 2023, 08:24:07 PM

You fellas actually came in handy for once. There was a cute intern with a bunch of ground beef, looking for ideas for things to make aside from tacos, sloppy joes and spaghetti. So of course I recommended a pot of chili. Initially she wrinkled her nose and expressed her disdain for beans. So of course I pounced upon this opportunity to drop the trivia bomb about Texas chili not having any beans, and it blew her effing mind. 

(https://media.tenor.com/ZHYmI4BTTWIAAAAC/nuclear-explosion.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 05, 2023, 08:36:02 PM

you're welcome

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 06, 2023, 10:52:33 AM

Speaking of, I think I'm gonna make some chili this weekend.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 06, 2023, 10:59:10 AM

not a bad idea

I have a surprise 70th Birthday party to attend on Saturday

the Birthday boy loves my chili

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 06, 2023, 11:02:52 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 06, 2023, 10:59:10 AM

not a bad idea

I have a surprise 70th Birthday party to attend on Saturday

the Birthday boy loves my chili

didnt know they sold Wolf Brand in your area

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 06, 2023, 11:04:41 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 06, 2023, 10:59:10 AM

not a bad idea

I have a surprise 70th Birthday party to attend on Saturday

the Birthday boy loves my chili

Thought you always make it different - i do,so what ingedients this time?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 06, 2023, 01:19:56 PM

well, for a 70th Birthday "surprise" party

I'd go with the competition recipe::

1 1/2 cups finely minced white onion
8 garlic cloves, finely minced
2 (15 1/2-ounce) cans chicken broth, with fat removed
4 ounces tomato sauce
3/4 teaspoon garlic powder
3 tablespoons ground cumin
1 tablespoon Gebhardt chili powder
2 tablespoons Fort Worth Light chili powder
2 tablespoons California chile powder (mild)
2 tablespoons Flagstaff chile powder (medium)
1 tablespoon New Mexico chile powder (hot)
2 teaspoons Seasoning salt

3 pounds tri-tip beef, cut into 3/4-inch cubes
1 tablespoon virgin olive oil
1/2 teaspoon meat tenderizer
1/2 teaspoon light brown sugar
1 teaspoon Tabasco brand pepper sauce

In a large pot simmer onion and minced garlic in 2 cups of chicken broth for 10 minutes. Add tomato sauce and all dry spices, except the tenderizer and sugar. Mix well. Brown the meat in oil using a separate pan and drain well. Sprinkle the meat with the tenderizer. Add the meat to the onion/spice mixture. Add remaining broth and simmer for 2 1/2 hours.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 06, 2023, 01:30:44 PM

Monday’s Rose Bowl game between Penn State and Utah drew a TV audience of 10.2 million viewers on ESPN, making it the least-watched Rose Bowl on record.

The game, played on Jan. 2 this year because Jan. 1 fell on Sunday, was down nearly 40 percent from last year’s Ohio State-Utah broadcast (16.6 million). The previous Rose Bowl low was 13.6 million for Stanford-Iowa in 2016.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 06, 2023, 09:49:34 PM

@Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870)

I know you're kinda busy, but watched an episode of Triple D featuring this place near Georgia Tech

Pijiu Belly

678 10th St. NW, Atlanta 30318
http://pijiubelly.com/ (http://pijiubelly.com/)

Looks good to me

Pijiu = Beer

Beer Belly!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 10, 2023, 03:45:35 PM

Cool.  Am at fantasy camp in FL for two weeks 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 10, 2023, 03:45:54 PM

Headed to stadium now

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 10, 2023, 04:03:31 PM

enjoy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 10, 2023, 04:47:10 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 10, 2023, 03:45:35 PM

Cool.  Am at fantasy camp in FL for two weeks

Where do they find equipment for you guys from the dead ball era?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 10, 2023, 04:51:39 PM

they bring their own from the garage or closet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 10, 2023, 05:00:27 PM

or the corn cribb,mud room,storm cellar,back of the conestoga wagon

maybe they'll be serving this treat up after the rugged work out

(https://i.imgur.com/shesgFA.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 10, 2023, 05:52:35 PM

Alex Grinch will be retained as USC’s defensive coordinator, Lincoln Riley confirmed today.


2:02 PM · Jan 10, 2023 (https://twitter.com/Ryan_Kartje/status/1612887532332802050)·

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 10, 2023, 05:53:43 PM

He must have incriminating photos of the HC....?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 10, 2023, 05:55:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 10, 2023, 05:53:43 PM

He must have incriminating photos of the HC....?

HA! Party pictures,poster on tOSU board said that - pics of him doing blow off a hooker stomach

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 10, 2023, 08:49:52 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/aOaZyDt.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 10, 2023, 08:50:31 PM

1914 1957. 1995. 2021 WS rings

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 10, 2023, 08:50:46 PM

I won in raffle 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 11, 2023, 09:45:00 AM

"The Why Files was created at the University of Wisconsin-Madison under the auspices of National Institute for Science Education with support from the National Science Foundation. It was funded through the University of Wisconsin-Madison. Each week, it brought a new story on the science behind the news. This archive lets us peek back at those keen insights."

https://whyfiles.org/ (https://whyfiles.org/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 11, 2023, 09:21:56 PM

Baseball is hard

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 11, 2023, 09:34:56 PM

hard ball

not softball

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 11, 2023, 10:05:54 PM

Augie Garrido called baseball the cruelest sport.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 12, 2023, 05:24:16 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 10, 2023, 08:50:46 PM

I won in raffle

Are you serious??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 12, 2023, 09:34:42 AM

better to be lucky than good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on January 12, 2023, 10:58:14 AM

Hey all. It's been a really long start to 2023 and I haven't been able to do anything other than check in. 

My parents are both in rough shape, and we're finally having long-stonewalled discussions about how to proceed with long term care while my dad is temporarily staying in my house. It's hard. 

Those of you who have come to my tailgate know Jake. His sister had a bad stroke New Years Eve, and the prognosis isn't good. They're currently out in Los Angeles trying to wrap their head around this. 

Please send prayers and good vibes our way. This is tough. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 12, 2023, 11:09:34 AM

Our prayers are with you pal. All the best.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 12, 2023, 11:13:20 AM

Prayers for you and yours, GR.  Sorry to hear about your troubles.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 12, 2023, 11:23:00 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 12, 2023, 09:34:42 AM

better to be lucky than good

Helps to have a little pocket change too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 12, 2023, 11:56:13 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on January 12, 2023, 10:58:14 AM

Hey all. It's been a really long start to 2023 and I haven't been able to do anything other than check in.

Please send prayers and good vibes our way. This is tough.

rough start to the year
prayers for help dealing with all of this.

hang in there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 12, 2023, 12:50:46 PM

You've got it GR good luck too

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 12, 2023, 01:11:34 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 12, 2023, 11:23:00 AM

Helps to have a little pocket change too.

he bought 50% of the raffle tickets?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 12, 2023, 03:52:13 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on January 12, 2023, 10:58:14 AM

Hey all. It's been a really long start to 2023 and I haven't been able to do anything other than check in.

My parents are both in rough shape, and we're finally having long-stonewalled discussions about how to proceed with long term care while my dad is temporarily staying in my house. It's hard.

Those of you who have come to my tailgate know Jake. His sister had a bad stroke New Years Eve, and the prognosis isn't good. They're currently out in Los Angeles trying to wrap their head around this.

Please send prayers and good vibes our way. This is tough.

You got it.   Been there.   It sucks. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 13, 2023, 11:15:51 AM

https://www.foxnews.com/media/migrants-drinking-all-day-having-sex-in-stairs-taxpayer-funded-new-york-hotels-whistleblower

Great news give the freakin' bill to Brandon/Peloshitty/Obama

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 13, 2023, 12:35:10 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 13, 2023, 11:15:51 AM

https://www.foxnews.com/media/migrants-drinking-all-day-having-sex-in-stairs-taxpayer-funded-new-york-hotels-whistleblower

Great news give the freakin' bill to Brandon/Peloshitty/Obama

couldnt happen in a better place

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 13, 2023, 12:52:32 PM

been happening in the lone star state for decades and no end in site

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 13, 2023, 12:54:09 PM

Klatt highlighted four teams he believes will be the biggest "climbers" in the 2023 college football season.

1. Colorado

2022 record: 1-11

Klatt on why the Buffaloes will be climbers: "Look what they’ve been able to do in the transfer portal. Deion Sanders is crushing recruiting. He went to a place that doesn’t generally recruit well, and he has made them a destination. They are crushing it in the transfer portal, they are going to totally transform their roster. They will probably have 20-25 new players and most of them, if not all of them, will be better than what left. Colorado is absolutely gonna be a climber next year. They will have a new quarterback, they’ll have a new coach, they will have a totally different identity and attitude."

2. Nebraska

2022 record: 4-8

Klatt on why the Huskers will be climbers: "They’ve got a new coach, and we all would say Matt Rhule is a really good coach. He has done a nice job in coaching, and he will change the culture. Every time he’s touched a college program, he was able to succeed. I think he’s one of the best coaches in the country. Can they go from four wins to eight wins? You bet."

3. Texas A&M

2022 record: 5-7

Klatt on why the Aggies will be climbers: "I get it if you want to roll your eyes at Texas A&M, but they won five games last year, and they just need to get to nine. I believe Bobby Petrino is going to improve their offense. If you don’t have to be the head coach, have that pressure, have that stress, be the focal-point person, and you can just focus on what you're good at, then I think Bobby Petrino makes a lot of sense. I think this is a zero or a 10 proposition. It’s either gonna blow up with too many cooks in the kitchen, which it might with Bobby Petrino and Jimbo [Fisher], or it's gonna work really well. And I’m gonna bet on the latter. I think that it's gonna work out really well. I think they’re gonna improve and go from five to nine wins."

4. Oklahoma

2022 record: 6-7

Klatt on why the Sooners will be climbers: "They were 0-5 in one-score games. All they have to do is start winning close games, which they should do, and they are easily a 10-win team, maybe an 11-win team. If we’re looking for a team that is next year’s TCU — make a run to the playoff and maybe even the national championship game — I’m looking at Oklahoma. In that conference, everybody is meshed together. One of the reasons we got TCU this year is because they were a team with a veteran presence, a very good quarterback, some good talent on the outside, they started winning those close games. That’s exactly what TCU did. That is the avenue I see next year for the Oklahoma Sooners. I think Brent Venables is a heck of a coach. This year was a ridiculously difficult situation to come in and succeed. And in large part, that’s why they lost those close games. They will be better in a conference where just a little improvement takes you from six to 10 wins."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 13, 2023, 01:53:12 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 13, 2023, 12:52:32 PM

been happening in the lone star state for decades and no end in site

I dont think Texas is spending $500.night on a hotel room for them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 13, 2023, 03:02:03 PM

nope, but even at that rate NY isn't going to get close to the total expenditure of Houston

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 13, 2023, 03:07:41 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 13, 2023, 03:02:03 PM

nope, but even at that rate NY isn't going to get close to the total expenditure of Houston

not sure what you are speaking of

if you are saying it costs money just to have them be here I agree but if you are saying there is a government let housing costs for them in Houston Im not aware of it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 13, 2023, 04:02:49 PM

no, Houston has been dealing with this for decades and obviously does it more efficiently than NYC

Should send 10,000 to NYC and Washington DC next week

let them have a good taste 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on January 13, 2023, 08:18:35 PM

Pshht. You guys are acting like you've never had sex with a migrant in a stairwell before. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 13, 2023, 09:14:39 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 13, 2023, 12:52:32 PM

been happening in the lone star state for decades and no end in site

Tax payers shouldn't  be on the hook for this,god damned federal judges must be in their pockets or just gutless puds

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 13, 2023, 09:20:50 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 13, 2023, 09:14:39 PM

Tax payers shouldn't  be on the hook for this,god damned federal judges must be in their pockets or just gutless puds

keep it above the belt , please

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 13, 2023, 09:22:08 PM

Truth needs to be exposed above/below the belt

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 13, 2023, 09:36:49 PM

unfortunately, when the truth is exposed above or below

not a F ing thing happens

there's no shame

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 14, 2023, 12:42:55 PM

Our team made the CG at 1:30

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 14, 2023, 03:10:38 PM

(https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/323322133_652882739902567_6619184523392230596_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=3zKKb1-JHiUAX_BeZ1k&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&oh=00_AfDbd6uI6qpf_PPaHWq97068D5kCKrymHUovmTEJqbMwXQ&oe=63C78C1D)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 14, 2023, 05:12:39 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 13, 2023, 01:53:12 PM

I dont think Texas is spending $500.night on a hotel room for them

No hotel in Texas is good enough to charge that much.  :88:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 14, 2023, 05:21:39 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 14, 2023, 05:12:39 PM

No hotel in Texas is good enough to charge that much.  :88:

yep youre right 

dont move here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 14, 2023, 05:30:07 PM

We won!

Three rings for me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 14, 2023, 05:40:10 PM

and your legs held up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 15, 2023, 07:30:34 AM

Sore but OK.  Two days off now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 15, 2023, 08:05:59 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 14, 2023, 03:10:38 PM

(https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/323322133_652882739902567_6619184523392230596_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=3zKKb1-JHiUAX_BeZ1k&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&oh=00_AfDbd6uI6qpf_PPaHWq97068D5kCKrymHUovmTEJqbMwXQ&oe=63C78C1D)

For a sophisticated bunch of fooks they should be able to figure that out for themselves,no?Jeez send some of the weebles from your Sharkwater tilt over there and show them how. If that's to difficult drink it for them,SMDH

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 15, 2023, 02:41:47 PM

In Lido Beach very fancy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 16, 2023, 04:55:13 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 15, 2023, 02:41:47 PM

In Lido Beach very fancy

Opal Lido Beach Resort?

Awesome place. St. Armand's Circle is a lot of fun too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2023, 07:19:32 AM

Had lunch at Crab and Fin.  Very sore but OK.  Start up again tomorrow.  Going to do some light work in motel gym, 100 pushups, etc.  37 F this am.

Was fun seeing all the rookie’s having a great time though we had one broken tibia.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 16, 2023, 08:45:56 AM

it's all fun and games until the broken tibia.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 16, 2023, 08:46:10 AM

Crab and Fin is one of my favorite places to dine. Fantastic service and very fresh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 16, 2023, 10:41:45 AM

really messy post

mondays suck

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 16, 2023, 10:45:20 AM

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/new-low-hunter-biden-fighting-prevent-daughter-ex-lover-using-last-name

New low for Hunter Biden: Fighting to prevent daughter with ex-lover from using his last name

Class Act :(

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 16, 2023, 10:49:54 AM

much better

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on January 18, 2023, 02:20:47 PM

ESPN+ has been showing the 2023 Handball World Championships.  It's been an oddly enjoyable afternoon background thing to have on.  USA qualified for the first time since 2001 (it's held every 2 years); and then won their first ever match, beating Morocco, to end an 0-23 streak.

That was enough to get them through to the 24 team 2nd round.  They will likely get slaughtered, but it's been worth a casual follow

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 18, 2023, 02:33:28 PM

Quote from: ELA on January 18, 2023, 02:20:47 PM

ESPN+ has been showing the 2023 Handball World Championships.  It's been an oddly enjoyable afternoon background thing to have on.  USA qualified for the first time since 2001 (it's held every 2 years); and then won their first ever match, beating Morocco, to end an 0-23 streak.

That was enough to get them through to the 24 team 2nd round.  They will likely get slaughtered, but it's been worth a casual follow

livin on the edge there ELA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on January 18, 2023, 02:38:50 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 18, 2023, 02:33:28 PM

livin on the edge there ELA

Phil Donohue is apparently off the air

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 18, 2023, 02:57:24 PM

Quote from: ELA on January 18, 2023, 02:38:50 PM

Phil Donohue is apparently off the air

theres always the view

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 18, 2023, 03:05:44 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 18, 2023, 02:57:24 PM

theres always the view

Rather have my fingernails plucked out one-by-one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on January 18, 2023, 03:28:09 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 18, 2023, 02:57:24 PM

theres always the view

It's DVRd.  No spoilers!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 18, 2023, 03:37:19 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 18, 2023, 03:05:44 PM

Rather have my fingernails plucked out one-by-one.

After the 4th Qtr of the Georgia/OSU game I hardly have any.....or a liver for that matter

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on January 18, 2023, 04:27:12 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 18, 2023, 03:37:19 PM

After the 4th Qtr of the Georgia/OSU game I hardly have any.....or a liver for that matter

You should stop scratching your internal organs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 18, 2023, 05:12:04 PM

I miss the 2am tractor pulls. 
I never once sat there and watched more than 1-2 go.
But it was nice to know it was there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 18, 2023, 06:23:47 PM

I love Battle Bots 

I guess Im living my 2nd childhood

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 18, 2023, 06:38:48 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 18, 2023, 06:23:47 PM

I love Battle Bots

I guess Im living my 2nd childhood

Well shit, 320... You're gettin' close. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3uGgffONSw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 18, 2023, 06:41:59 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 18, 2023, 06:23:47 PM

I love Battle Bots

I guess Im living my 2nd childhood

evidently you grew up then relapsed by the time you joined the Fan Forums

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 18, 2023, 06:43:57 PM

just love seeing 2 200 pound machines tearing the hell out of each other

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 18, 2023, 06:45:02 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 18, 2023, 06:38:48 PM

Well shit, 320... You're gettin' close.

I have not progressed to that point yet but getting closer every day

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 18, 2023, 06:53:33 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 18, 2023, 06:43:57 PM

just love seeing 2 200 pound machines tearing the hell out of each other

1950s linemen?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 19, 2023, 04:02:45 PM

Had game winning hit todsy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 19, 2023, 05:18:00 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 19, 2023, 04:02:45 PM

Had game winning hit todsy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSqx2mTHTjM

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 20, 2023, 11:29:23 AM

Was named game MVP yesterday but really wasn’t 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 20, 2023, 11:30:37 AM

figured you were too old and might not make it back next season?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 20, 2023, 11:31:56 AM

Yeah close, I had a key hit late.  Another guy pitched a complete game.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 20, 2023, 01:29:56 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 20, 2023, 11:31:56 AM

Yeah close, I had a key hit late.  Another guy pitched a complete game.

so when can we expect bobble head night

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 20, 2023, 01:40:09 PM

actor Alec Baldwin charged with involuntary manslaughter....

https://www.insider.com/alec-baldwin-rust-pr-experts-hollywood-black-list-manslaughter-charge-2023-1

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 20, 2023, 02:00:50 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 20, 2023, 01:40:09 PM

actor Alec Baldwin charged with involuntary manslaughter....

https://www.insider.com/alec-baldwin-rust-pr-experts-hollywood-black-list-manslaughter-charge-2023-1

Im really mystified by this

It was my understanding he was handed the gun from the prop manager and told it was good to go

what am I missing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on January 20, 2023, 02:02:54 PM

I wouldn't trust Alec Baldwin with handling the pizza order

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 20, 2023, 02:23:06 PM

Alec Baldwin was great in Glengarry Glen Ross and outstanding in 30 Rock.  That's about all I got.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 20, 2023, 02:24:08 PM

Quote from: ELA on January 20, 2023, 02:02:54 PM

I wouldn't trust Alec Baldwin with handling the pizza order

not sure he did anything wrong from what Ive read

Im not a fan either but this could happen to any actor using a gun on set

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 20, 2023, 03:56:52 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 20, 2023, 01:29:56 PM

so when can we expect bobble head night

Every time I run for a pop up ✌️

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on January 20, 2023, 06:33:54 PM

I think it's a mix of things on why he was charged.  

He was a producer of the film, and as such he was responsible for things such as safety. So it's like if a company's actions hurt somebody, the person in charge can get in trouble.  

He did fire the gun, he did not check to see if it was loaded.  I wonder if it's really reasonable to check something like this every single time.  Imagine how many scenes and takes it takes to make a movie.  Take after take, scene after scene.  Imagine how many times he's fired a gun on a movie set.  

And lastly, Alec Baldwin, while one of my favorite personal actors, has earned a reputation for being very liberal and anti-gun.  So he kinda painted a big target on his back, despite earning a paycheck doing the things he's protesting against.  So maybe there is some kind of politics at play.  I really hope not.  This should be about Justice for the person that died, not some political vendetta.  

My viewpoint on this is that every gun on every single film set in the USA should be made to where it absolutely cannot be used to fire a real bullet.  This has happened multiple times now, with Brandon Lee dying in the early 90's filming "The Crow".  

IMO, all firearms, whether real or non-functioning, should be kept under lock and key, with a chain of custody from the armorer all the way thru to the actors.  My guess is that Hollywood has gotten lazy with regards to making sure these guns aren't real and aren't loaded.  

One of the first things you're taught as a gunowner is NEVER aim a gun at anybody you don't intend to shoot.  And if you do aim a gun at somebody, be prepared to kill them (don't take it lightly).  At least, that's what I was taught.  You always act as if the weapon is loaded, even if you KNOW it's not.  

I understand that you have to aim it on somebody on set to film a movie, but maybe there should always be some kind of bullet proof barrier between the actors and the film makers.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 20, 2023, 09:16:16 PM

Quote from: Gigem on January 20, 2023, 06:33:54 PM

I think it's a mix of things on why he was charged. 

He was a producer of the film, and as such he was responsible for things such as safety. So it's like if a company's actions hurt somebody, the person in charge can get in trouble. 

He did fire the gun, he did not check to see if it was loaded.  I wonder if it's really reasonable to check something like this every single time.  Imagine how many scenes and takes it takes to make a movie.  Take after take, scene after scene.  Imagine how many times he's fired a gun on a movie set. 

And lastly, Alec Baldwin, while one of my favorite personal actors, has earned a reputation for being very liberal and anti-gun.  So he kinda painted a big target on his back, despite earning a paycheck doing the things he's protesting against.  So maybe there is some kind of politics at play.  I really hope not.  This should be about Justice for the person that died, not some political vendetta. 

My viewpoint on this is that every gun on every single film set in the USA should be made to where it absolutely cannot be used to fire a real bullet.  This has happened multiple times now, with Brandon Lee dying in the early 90's filming "The Crow". 

IMO, all firearms, whether real or non-functioning, should be kept under lock and key, with a chain of custody from the armorer all the way thru to the actors.  My guess is that Hollywood has gotten lazy with regards to making sure these guns aren't real and aren't loaded. 

One of the first things you're taught as a gunowner is NEVER aim a gun at anybody you don't intend to shoot.  And if you do aim a gun at somebody, be prepared to kill them (don't take it lightly).  At least, that's what I was taught.  You always act as if the weapon is loaded, even if you KNOW it's not. 

I understand that you have to aim it on somebody on set to film a movie, but maybe there should always be some kind of bullet proof barrier between the actors and the film makers. 

Number 1 would only come into play if he had not hired a person whose job it was to make sure the gun was ok to use

Number 2 is true but he was told the gun was safe to use by the prop man who was responsible for gun safety

Number 3 is ridiculous and really has no merit


There has to be more to this that has not been reported in the media

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 20, 2023, 09:19:28 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 20, 2023, 02:23:06 PM

Alec Baldwin was great in Glengarry Glen Ross and outstanding in 30 Rock.  That's about all I got.

Hunt for Red October also

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 20, 2023, 09:21:22 PM

here is a little writeup from CNN concerning this case

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/20/us/alec-baldwin-involuntary-manslaughter-case/index.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 20, 2023, 10:43:27 PM

regardless of anything and everything............

before a person handles a weapon, they themselves are responsible for checking to see if it's loaded

ESPECIALLY if you're going to point it at someone and possibly pull the F ing trigger

#1 rule in gun safety AND just common sense

Alex did NOT do this and therefore was obviously negligent and reckless

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 21, 2023, 07:48:13 AM

Quote from: Gigem on January 20, 2023, 06:33:54 PM

I think it's a mix of things on why he was charged. 

He was a producer of the film, and as such he was responsible for things such as safety. So it's like if a company's actions hurt somebody, the person in charge can get in trouble. 

He did fire the gun, he did not check to see if it was loaded.  I wonder if it's really reasonable to check something like this every single time.  Imagine how many scenes and takes it takes to make a movie.  Take after take, scene after scene.  Imagine how many times he's fired a gun on a movie set. 

And lastly, Alec Baldwin, while one of my favorite personal actors, has earned a reputation for being very liberal and anti-gun.  So he kinda painted a big target on his back, despite earning a paycheck doing the things he's protesting against.  So maybe there is some kind of politics at play.  I really hope not.  This should be about Justice for the person that died, not some political vendetta. 

My viewpoint on this is that every gun on every single film set in the USA should be made to where it absolutely cannot be used to fire a real bullet.  This has happened multiple times now, with Brandon Lee dying in the early 90's filming "The Crow". 

IMO, all firearms, whether real or non-functioning, should be kept under lock and key, with a chain of custody from the armorer all the way thru to the actors.  My guess is that Hollywood has gotten lazy with regards to making sure these guns aren't real and aren't loaded. 

One of the first things you're taught as a gunowner is NEVER aim a gun at anybody you don't intend to shoot.  And if you do aim a gun at somebody, be prepared to kill them (don't take it lightly).  At least, that's what I was taught.  You always act as if the weapon is loaded, even if you KNOW it's not. 

I understand that you have to aim it on somebody on set to film a movie, but maybe there should always be some kind of bullet proof barrier between the actors and the film makers. 

That.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 21, 2023, 07:50:47 AM

I had a person hand me a gun one time, and he told me it was not loaded.

It was f'ing loaded. I disowned him as a friend. I have no tolerance for irresponsible. NONE.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 21, 2023, 08:02:14 AM

Certainly I would argue, and certainly his lawyers will argue, that they literally hired someone whose job it was to make sure the props were safe and wouldn't kill people. Relying on some New York liberal unfamiliar with what he's being given to make sure it is safe is silly and reckless.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on January 21, 2023, 08:13:11 AM

•  Now way in hell should a live round ever, ever be on the set.
•  Guns should not be used for anything other than for the movie.  No target practice.
•  Both armorer and actor should verify it is blank. (Baldwin has culpability)
•  Only reason Alec Baldwin should point the gun at a person is if the director, or other, is trying to align a shot.
•  Never pull a trigger when pointed at a person. (Baldwin f-up)
•  Only reason to even use blanks is a visual effect they can give that is better and cheaper than CGI.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 21, 2023, 08:15:08 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 21, 2023, 08:02:14 AM

Certainly I would argue, and certainly his lawyers will argue, that they literally hired someone whose job it was to make sure the props were safe and wouldn't kill people. Relying on some New York liberal unfamiliar with what he's being given to make sure it is safe is silly and reckless.

It's not about what he knew. It's about what he should have KNOWN.

Brutus is painfully correct on all accounts here. Period.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2023, 09:05:08 AM

I understand that "artists" like Alex are pampered entitled dipshits that rely on others to do almost everything for them.

Alec might not wipe his own behind very often

but, if he is going to handle a weapon, he is responsible

regardless of who is also responsible for checking the weapon

he fucked up, he trusted them

the others that are also responsible will also be held accountable and have been charged

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 21, 2023, 09:14:16 AM

Idk, if it's a movie set and a "prop gun," is it even an actual "weapon?"  It shouldn't be.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 21, 2023, 09:23:23 AM

Anything can be a weapon.

Teeth. Feet. Fist.

Pressure cooker.

SUV.

The person using each of these is responsible for their use. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2023, 09:48:30 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 21, 2023, 09:14:16 AM

Idk, if it's a movie set and a "prop gun," is it even an actual "weapon?"  It shouldn't be. 

well, it obviously was
and I assume Alex knew it
He was the producer


apparently, there were live rounds in all 6 chambers
the extra weight of 6 rounds of .45 could have been noticeable

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 21, 2023, 10:54:09 AM

Could have been noticeable? All he had to do was look at it to know it was loaded.

Only a dipshit wouldn't know the difference, and dipshits shouldn't be handed a firearm. 



“Guns don’t just go off. The single action Colt .45 revolver handled by Alec Baldwin required multiple active steps to discharge and kill Halyna Hutchins,” Luper said in the statement. “The gun had to be loaded with live ammunition, held and pointed, the hammer of the weapon manually cocked, and the trigger pulled. It was not a magic self-firing weapon.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 21, 2023, 10:56:27 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 20, 2023, 10:43:27 PM

regardless of anything and everything............

before a person handles a weapon, they themselves are responsible for checking to see if it's loaded

ESPECIALLY if you're going to point it at someone and possibly pull the F ing trigger

#1 rule in gun safety AND just common sense

Alex did NOT do this and therefore was obviously negligent and reckless

1st thing young hunters are taught

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 21, 2023, 11:00:45 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 21, 2023, 09:14:16 AM

Idk, if it's a movie set and a "prop gun," is it even an actual "weapon?"  It shouldn't be. 

Yup with all the look alike toys/cap guns why were/are they even flirting with disaster or tempting fate. They should get 10 yrs hard time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 21, 2023, 11:02:14 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 21, 2023, 09:23:23 AM

Anything can be a weapon.

MERTZ ?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 21, 2023, 11:22:23 AM

I have not yet read just how live rounds got into that gun

I suspect the real fault lies there

I wonder why the prop guy has not been charged

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2023, 11:30:07 AM

that's Alex's only hope

find the person that put in the live rounds and charge them with 1st degree

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 21, 2023, 11:33:38 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 21, 2023, 11:30:07 AM

that's Alex's only hope

find the person that put in the live rounds and charge them with 1st degree

I would not say its his only hope but that that there is a lot of info not being made public

once we find out the answers it will be much clearer why Alex was charged

If there is no additional info they will never convict him

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on January 21, 2023, 11:33:52 AM

My understanding is that the prop guy, known in the biz as an armorer, is a girl who "should" have known her shit.  

I think when all the literal smoke clears it will come out that somebody on the set irresponsibly took these prop guns out for target/shooting practice.  Probably by somebody who was not raised around guns.  They took a bunch of weapons, whatever was available, went out into the New Mexico desert, shot some shit up for fun, and shot so many guns that these were simply loaded and forgot about.  Most likely under some kind of influence (alcohol/drugs/both).  Guns were returned to the set, nobody knew they were gone, armorer got lazy and didn't check them all, and then disaster strikes.  

I will also say that invariably you have to have people "in the line of fire" when filming a movie, and you may find this part controversial, but the woman who was killed bears some responsibility in this thing as well because she placed herself in the line of fire.  Two people were shot, but how many people were really needed in the line of fire?  Maybe only one, the camera man, and as I stated there should always be some kind of bullet proof enclosure protecting the people from the hazard.  

This is safety 101.  You NEVER aim a gun at somebody unless you intend to kill that person.  Doesn't matter if it's loaded or not loaded.  Doesn't matter that it's been commonplace in Hollywood for 50+ years (100 years ?).  

In my line of work (big chemical industry/plant type stuff) you always plan the work to never have yourself in the line of fire.  We literally call it that, and it certainly comes from weapon terms.  I have no doubt that Hollywood in general has probably been very lax about safety on the set, especially when it comes to weapons.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on January 21, 2023, 11:36:42 AM

From the CNN (Communist News Network) link posted above:

Hutchins was killed on the film’s New Mexico set in October 2021 when a prop gun Baldwin was holding fired a live round of ammunition, striking her in the chest and wounding [color=var(--theme-paragraph__link-color)]director Joel Souza[/color] (https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/19/us/rust-movie-set-shooting-key-characters/index.html) in the shoulder.[/b][/i]

First off, I freakin' hate the media.  Because they skew stuff so bad.  It wasn't a prop gun.  It was a real gun.  Sure, it may have meant to be used as a prop, but you can't call the real thing a prop in my book.  A prop is something that is fake.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 21, 2023, 11:38:44 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 21, 2023, 11:30:07 AM

that's Alex's only hope

find the person that put in the live rounds and charge them with 1st degree

He pulled the trigger so he better not exercise his right to a speedy trial

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 21, 2023, 11:42:05 AM

Quote from: Gigem on January 21, 2023, 11:33:52 AM

This is safety 101.  You NEVER aim a gun at somebody unless you intend to kill that person.    

Well you don't have to you could just rob them. Congress and corporations have been doing this for years - with out a gun

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on January 21, 2023, 11:47:08 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 21, 2023, 11:42:05 AM

Well you don't have to you could just rob them. Congress and corporations have been doing this for years - with out a gun

What happens when the rob-ees just say no? 
Robber "Give me your money". 
Rob-ee "No. I will not give you my money".  
Robber " Ok, I guess I will see you later then".  

On a serious note, nobody ever said you "Had to kill them" if you point a gun at them.  What I said was, you better be prepared to kill them.  Because once the gun comes out and you fail to pull the trigger your chances of living get much lower.  So if your having a confrontation with somebody and you draw down on them, what the f are you gonna do when they draw down back on you or try to wrestle your gun away from you?  The key thing being don't pull your weapon unless you absolutely have to, and if you do be prepared to kill.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on January 21, 2023, 11:50:04 AM

Also, I just want to state that I'm not really much of an expert on guns and especially pistols.  I don't have a pistol, I don't carry, and I generally just use my guns for hunting and shooting practice.  

I treat my guns with respect, never aim at anybody, and always act as if they're loaded and ready to fire.  

There are people I know who carry EVERYWHERE they go, whether it's allowed or not.  I can't imagine living in a world where I was that scared of everything, but again if you decide to draw down on somebody you don't know be prepared to have them draw back.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2023, 11:50:59 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 21, 2023, 11:38:44 AM

He pulled the trigger so he better not exercise his right to a speedy trial

and for some odd reason, he lied and stated he never pulled the trigger

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on January 21, 2023, 11:53:28 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 21, 2023, 11:50:59 AM

and for some odd reason, he lied and stated he never pulled the trigger

Which brings up another point.  Wouldn't this be on film or video somewhere?  Assuming they were filming, and not rehearsing.  I can't imagine needed to rehearse and being in full costume and firing a live weapon.  

I could also imagine the film/video getting erased immediately.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2023, 11:57:00 AM

why lie if you're innocent?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 21, 2023, 11:58:18 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 21, 2023, 10:54:09 AM

Could have been noticeable? All he had to do was look at it to know it was loaded.

Only a dipshit wouldn't know the difference, and dipshits shouldn't be handed a firearm.



“Guns don’t just go off. The single action Colt .45 revolver handled by Alec Baldwin required multiple active steps to discharge and kill Halyna Hutchins,” Luper said in the statement. “The gun had to be loaded with live ammunition, held and pointed, the hammer of the weapon manually cocked, and the trigger pulled. It was not a magic self-firing weapon.”

The issue isn't whether it was loaded. It was definitely loaded. The issue was a few live rounds were mixed in with the dummy rounds normally used on movie sets. This appears to be completely accidental and their weapons person didn't notice it. It is difficult for me to find some case against Alec Baldwin for shooting what he thought were dummy rounds during a movie. There's been some suggestion that the safety standards were generally lax and Baldwin is responsible for that as a producer of the film. I dunno - that's probably pretty fact intensive. Movies have lots of producers so probably need to draw some line showing that he was responsible for safety on the set instead of just a general "he's the star so he's responsible."

Generally, prosecutors get real creative and aggressive when someone dies so long as the government isn't responsible for it. Has created some weak cases and wrongful convictions over the years. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on January 21, 2023, 12:02:06 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 21, 2023, 11:58:18 AM

The issue isn't whether it was loaded. It was definitely loaded. The issue was a few live rounds were mixed in with the dummy rounds normally used on movie sets. This appears to be completely accidental and their weapons person didn't notice it. It is difficult for me to find some case against Alec Baldwin for shooting what he thought were dummy rounds during a movie. There's been some suggestion that the safety standards were generally lax and Baldwin is responsible for that as a producer of the film. I dunno - that's probably pretty fact intensive. Movies have lots of producers so probably need to draw some line showing that he was responsible for safety on the set instead of just a general "he's the star so he's responsible."

Generally, prosecutors get real creative and aggressive when someone dies so long as the government isn't responsible for it. Has created some weak cases and wrongful convictions over the years.

A lot of misinformation about this one.  Such as, did live bullets look just like dummy bullets?  I have heard that they need to in a revolver used as a prop because you can see the other rounds in the gun.  

I recall that when another actor was killed it was in fact using dummy rounds but somehow an old round got stuck or lodged in the barrel and when the dummy round fired it pushed the live round out as if the gun were loaded with a live round.  

I think the charge still has to go before a judge (instead of a grand jury) and he will decide whether to press charges.  The prosecutor may full well know this won't move forward and it was all just for show.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2023, 12:08:46 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 21, 2023, 11:58:18 AM

The issue isn't whether it was loaded. It was definitely loaded. The issue was a few live rounds were mixed in with the dummy rounds normally used on movie sets. This appears to be completely accidental and their weapons person didn't notice it. It is difficult for me to find some case against Alec Baldwin for shooting what he thought were dummy rounds during a movie. There's been some suggestion that the safety standards were generally lax and Baldwin is responsible for that as a producer of the film. I dunno - that's probably pretty fact intensive. Movies have lots of producers so probably need to draw some line showing that he was responsible for safety on the set instead of just a general "he's the star so he's responsible."

Generally, prosecutors get real creative and aggressive when someone dies so long as the government isn't responsible for it. Has created some weak cases and wrongful convictions over the years.

well, he's not being charged with 1st degree murder he's being charged with manslaughter for being negligent

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 21, 2023, 12:20:31 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 21, 2023, 12:08:46 PM

well, he's not being charged with 1st degree murder he's being charged with manslaughter for being negligent

To put it a different way. Say someone cuts your brake lines without your knowledge, and you drive out, discover you have no brakes, and run over a kid. Are you criminally responsible for negligence because you didn't check to make sure your brakes worked before getting on the road? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 21, 2023, 12:26:18 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 21, 2023, 12:20:31 PM

To put it a different way. Say someone cuts your brake lines without your knowledge, and you drive out, discover you have no brakes, and run over a kid. Are you criminally responsible for negligence because you didn't check to make sure your brakes worked before getting on the road?

yep it would appear the prosecuters are reaching too far on this one unless as Ive said before there is some key info the public doesnt know

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2023, 12:49:56 PM

well, say you're a pilot and required to do a safety check before takeoff

including brakes

many safety steps were missed

I'd guess there's a safety requirement for the person handling a weapon on the set.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 21, 2023, 12:54:40 PM

Pardon my ignorance, but I apparently know nothing of the movie industry.  I guess my impression has always been that "prop" guns on sets are not capable of firing actual bullets.  I thought they were akin to something like a toy gun, like you'd buy your son, but that looks more convincing on the outside.  A toy, capable of making a little flash at the barrel, if desired. 

Reading through this discussion, it sounds like gun used on tv/movie sets are real guns that get loaded with dummy rounds?  If so, that is.....just.....I don't even know what to say about that. 

Granted, I have no experience with dummy rounds.  I have no idea if they're supposed to be easy to identify or if I should be able to easily tell if the bullets are real or dummies.  I've never used them. 

That still is just asking for trouble.  If I--an owner of a few guns and while pretty limited in knowledge and experience, not completely unfamiliar with firearms--don't know anything about live rounds vs. dummies, I would trust a bunch of anti-gun Hollywood yahoos to know anything about it.  Production companies would know that, you'd think, and would not assume anyone on set knows anything, therefore you use fake toy guns or at least have a prop master who is an expert in firearms, and to boot NO live ammunition is ever allowed anywhere near a set. 

I still can't wrap my head around using real guns for filming.  I guess there's a reason for it, but it's not like it'd be hard to have convincing fake guns that are not capable of firing squat.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2023, 01:24:31 PM

yup, there's SO much fake crap in movies, WHY use a real gun????

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on January 21, 2023, 01:31:05 PM

The blanks probably produce a recoil effect like an actual bullet, causing it to look more realistic. 

Just a guess. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 21, 2023, 01:57:57 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 21, 2023, 11:57:00 AM

why lie if you're innocent?

Some would say this is a naive question born of privilege.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2023, 02:05:09 PM

well, if there was EVER a person of privilege...... it might be Alec

seems Jimmy Harbaugh is also lying to the NCAA - he might be cornsidered privileged 

doesn't seem to be working for him, nor a good look to his privileged followers 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 21, 2023, 02:14:04 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 21, 2023, 11:57:00 AM

why lie if you're innocent?

Part of the human condition, I suppose. 

People lie all the time to get out of small stuff. Sometimes gets them into trouble with big stuff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2023, 02:36:59 PM

hah, they weren't raised by my mother

big trouble

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on January 21, 2023, 03:20:17 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 21, 2023, 12:20:31 PM

To put it a different way. Say someone cuts your brake lines without your knowledge, and you drive out, discover you have no brakes, and run over a kid. Are you criminally responsible for negligence because you didn't check to make sure your brakes worked before getting on the road?

Horrible analogy. Because nobody expects anybody to inspect their brakes every day. 

But on the other hand, if you are a professional driver ( bus driver, truck driver, etc) and it was expected that you would make some sort of vehicle inspection on a routine basis and failed to do so I think you’d be negligent if you caused someone’s death. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 21, 2023, 03:23:52 PM

Quote from: Gigem on January 21, 2023, 03:20:17 PM

Horrible analogy. Because nobody expects anybody to inspect their brakes every day.

But on the other hand, if you are a professional driver ( bus driver, truck driver, etc) and it was expected that you would make some sort of vehicle inspection on a routine basis and failed to do so I think you’d be negligent if you caused someone’s death.

I'm not sure I'd expect someone to inspect a gun if it's been inspected twice already, either. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2023, 03:49:29 PM

I sure as hell would

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 21, 2023, 03:53:57 PM

Quote from: Gigem on January 21, 2023, 03:20:17 PM

Horrible analogy. Because nobody expects anybody to inspect their brakes every day.

Not really because there was that same element of expecting routine experience to unfold

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 21, 2023, 03:56:05 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 21, 2023, 03:23:52 PM

I'm not sure I'd expect someone to inspect a gun if it's been inspected twice already, either.

I've never seen a blank obviously the slug wouldn't be exposed but are they labeled as such

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 21, 2023, 04:09:41 PM

Baseball has concluded save the last banquet.  I’m still standing… need to work harder next year…

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2023, 04:27:36 PM

corngrats on another fine season!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 21, 2023, 07:39:24 PM

Quote from: Gigem on January 21, 2023, 03:20:17 PM

Horrible analogy. Because nobody expects anybody to inspect their brakes every day.

But on the other hand, if you are a professional driver ( bus driver, truck driver, etc) and it was expected that you would make some sort of vehicle inspection on a routine basis and failed to do so I think you’d be negligent if you caused someone’s death.

Is the driver in the case case of the armorer or the actor?

(It seems like an odd case to make, unless you had really good info to prove he was told explicitly not to do something and then did. Which maybe they do. Might also just be a way for a DA to get some pub and fame. OTOH, one would assume a wealthy actor won't lack for quality representation, so the DA will likely really have to prove it if he has the law on his side)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 21, 2023, 07:46:41 PM

What if it's a stunt car and you're about to shoot a scene?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 21, 2023, 08:28:49 PM

Stop It!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2023, 09:08:59 AM

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTimniYZrMyjU5Ou9TRceKzS0HFIdl-1q31Img8wRWODSYZRW79WkBQ5FKSk_gNgkGLTPo&usqp=CAU)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 22, 2023, 09:25:35 AM

Quote from: Gigem on January 21, 2023, 11:36:42 AM

From the CNN (Communist News Network) link posted above:

Hutchins was killed on the film’s New Mexico set in October 2021 when a prop gun Baldwin was holding fired a live round of ammunition, striking her in the chest and wounding [color=var(--theme-paragraph__link-color)]director Joel Souza[/color] (https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/19/us/rust-movie-set-shooting-key-characters/index.html) in the shoulder.[/b][/i]

First off, I freakin' hate the media.  Because they skew stuff so bad.  It wasn't a prop gun.  It was a real gun.  Sure, it may have meant to be used as a prop, but you can't call the real thing a prop in my book.  A prop is something that is fake. 

1. A woman died when a prop gun Baldwin was holding fired.

Or

2. Baldwin fired a gun and killed a woman.



2

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2023, 09:29:12 AM

#1 - pretrial
#2 - post trial

innocent until proven

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 22, 2023, 09:30:01 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 21, 2023, 03:23:52 PM

I'm not sure I'd expect someone to inspect a gun if it's been inspected twice already, either.

I wouldn't expect a dipshit to inspect a gun, but then again I wouldn't hand a gun to a dipshit.

You ALWAYS inspect the gun. ALWAYS.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 22, 2023, 09:51:16 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 22, 2023, 09:30:01 AM

I wouldn't expect a dipshit to inspect a gun, but then again I wouldn't hand a gun to a dipshit.

You ALWAYS inspect the gun. ALWAYS.

Is there any real reason to believe something would have changed if he had inspected it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 22, 2023, 10:03:08 AM

Of course.

A blank:

(https://i.imgur.com/OXgxtMF.png)

Live round:

(https://i.imgur.com/6eLcT9H.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2023, 10:05:18 AM

looks the same to Alec

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 22, 2023, 10:10:32 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 22, 2023, 10:05:18 AM

looks the same to Alec

Yep. That's why he hired experts to do it for him. Also, I think the dummy rounds and live rounds looked even more similar than the pictures above. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 22, 2023, 10:23:04 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 22, 2023, 10:05:18 AM

looks the same to Alec

Well, he's a dipshit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2023, 10:27:29 AM

I like to give credit to hollywood types for being some of the most ignorant people on the planet, but......

even extremely stupid people know to check a weapon for live rounds

_________________________________________

ignorance is no excuse for involuntary manslaughter

neither is shifting the responsibility to someone that didn't pull the trigger

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2023, 10:30:12 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 22, 2023, 10:23:04 AM

Well, he's a dipshit.

that fact seems to be undisputed 
perhaps this topic has been covered by Skip Bayless and Shannon Sharpe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 22, 2023, 10:39:06 AM

Just ordered, with 1000 rounds (live). Colt 357.


(https://i.imgur.com/S8YifkD.png)

Cheaper than buying a sporty car. At least that's what I'll tell the wife. Knowing her she'll take it and claim it as her own - like the last pistol I bought.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 22, 2023, 10:56:57 AM

Definitely busy around here. Looking forward to April when it settles down again.


Despite Hurricane Ian closing popular tourist spots, Southwest Florida is still a travel destination, and in fact, 2022 was a record-breaking year for RSW.

Passenger numbers at RSW eclipsed 10,000,000 people at RSW in 2022. And travelers said it’s not surprising, given Southwest Florida is paradise.

“After 2020, people are ready to travel again,” Donna Lawson, visiting from Minnesota, said.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2023, 11:12:47 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 22, 2023, 10:39:06 AM

Just ordered, with 1000 rounds (live). Colt 357.


(https://i.imgur.com/S8YifkD.png)

I had the Python 6" barrel in stainless

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 22, 2023, 11:19:54 AM

You sell or trade it?

I thought about a longer barrel for this purchase, but decided this would be easier to keep in the nightstand.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2023, 11:27:30 AM

sold a few years back

difficult enough to hit something with a 6" barrel

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 22, 2023, 11:33:41 AM

This is my home security - Glock 17 gen 2

(https://i.imgur.com/9Vgcetc.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2023, 11:58:04 AM

this was in my night stand with 3 clips loaded next to it - 230 grain ball

(https://p1.liveauctioneers.com/6578/242150/125533477_1_x.jpg?quality=80&version=1648230818)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 22, 2023, 12:25:27 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 22, 2023, 10:39:06 AM

Just ordered, with 1000 rounds (live). Colt 357.


(https://i.imgur.com/S8YifkD.png)

Cheaper than buying a sporty car. At least that's what I'll tell the wife. Knowing her she'll take it and claim it as her own - like the last pistol I bought.

Why would that be like a sporty car?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2023, 12:28:40 PM

guilty pleasure

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 22, 2023, 12:46:54 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 22, 2023, 12:25:27 PM

Why would that be like a sporty car?

See above.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2023, 01:09:59 PM

saw my financial advisor Friday afternoon...

advised me to buy a Corvette or a different house on the golf course

not both

decisions - decisions

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 22, 2023, 02:43:51 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 22, 2023, 01:09:59 PM

saw my financial advisor Friday afternoon...

advised me to buy a Corvette or a different house on the golf course

not both

decisions - decisions

Get the car,there could be guys that golf like you on that course,the car you can at least move.FORE!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 22, 2023, 02:47:04 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 22, 2023, 10:30:12 AM

that fact seems to be undisputed
perhaps this topic has been covered by Skip Bayless and Shannon Sharpe.

Too bad Bayless wasn't filling in on the set that day

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2023, 02:51:28 PM

skippy may have checked the revolver

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 22, 2023, 04:07:23 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 22, 2023, 02:47:04 PM

Too bad Bayless wasn't filling in on the set that day

That guy has monetized being hated.  
That's why no one respects him.
He purposely has absurd takes just for attention.  And it works.
It's gross.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2023, 04:29:22 PM

similar to politicians 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 22, 2023, 05:12:26 PM

I have my grandfather's Army service gun, one of these:



(https://i.imgur.com/UtsS4gd.png)


And a couple of Colt 45 wheel guns too. 

Burny's been trying to convince me to get a Glock, too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on January 22, 2023, 06:42:03 PM

I'm rolling around with a pair of shoulder missiles.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTcgqerjOBTX5lqntSoiPZ6qkjH1p-c0t_Ag3XTwLTbekNrxL2ec4ZLKdo17jzuWIjovIU&usqp=CAU)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 22, 2023, 08:29:15 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on January 22, 2023, 06:42:03 PM

I'm rolling around with a pair of shoulder missiles.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTcgqerjOBTX5lqntSoiPZ6qkjH1p-c0t_Ag3XTwLTbekNrxL2ec4ZLKdo17jzuWIjovIU&usqp=CAU)

might be a tad too much fire power

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 22, 2023, 10:41:37 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 22, 2023, 08:29:15 PM

might be a tad too much fire power

Nah.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2023, 10:54:19 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 21, 2023, 04:09:41 PM

Baseball has concluded save the last banquet.  I’m still standing… need to work harder next year…

Copper Infused Golf Glove White/Black

Recommended by PGA Professionals for Golfers With Joint Pain and Arthritis.

https://coppertechgloves.com/pages/copper-infused-golf-glove

 (https://coppertechgloves.com/pages/copper-infused-golf-glove)it's only a matter of time before they offer batting gloves
maybe before next year!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 23, 2023, 07:35:11 AM

The "copper infused" gimmick used to claim health benefits, now they imply something vague.  I probably need some new batting gloves.  I am sore but still walking around pretty well and I drove all the way back yesterday.  I made two stops for gas and McDonald's.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 23, 2023, 08:06:57 AM

Yep, the hurricane. It's really odd that here, where the eye passed over, there is relatively little damage, comparatively. 

If you go North or South 5 miles, it's far more evident as to what happened that day/night.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on January 23, 2023, 11:12:49 AM

I keep this on my nightstand:
(https://i.imgur.com/yHet7K3.png)

9mm Baby Dessert Eagle. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 23, 2023, 11:53:40 AM

My nightstand, for now:

(https://i.imgur.com/HLocQc7.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2023, 12:01:12 PM

I prefer more knockdown power and more bang

I'm not worried about size, not carrying

I've shot the big Dessert Eagle - I like

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 23, 2023, 12:18:55 PM

There also is one called a "Desert Eagle".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 23, 2023, 12:31:09 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 23, 2023, 12:01:12 PM

I prefer more knockdown power and more bang

I'm not worried about size, not carrying

I've shot the big Dessert Eagle - I like

It's got enough, with hollow points of course.

The wife has this one that she stole from me:

(https://i.imgur.com/8zbiwWk.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 23, 2023, 12:32:31 PM

My home protection (from the bad people):
(https://i.imgur.com/cV7FRgX.png)

I can cave your head in with one, and put a hole in you with the other.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 23, 2023, 12:38:01 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 23, 2023, 12:32:31 PM

My home protection (from the bad people):

I can cave your head in with one, and put a hole in you with the other. 

And they can put a hole in you at a distance, you can't.

Blunt objects are used more often in homicides than rifles.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 23, 2023, 12:52:31 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 23, 2023, 12:32:31 PM

My home protection (from the bad people):
(https://i.imgur.com/cV7FRgX.png)

I can cave your head in with one, and put a hole in you with the other. 

Were you in San Francisco lately?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on January 23, 2023, 12:58:03 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Zone_accident

Anybody remember this?  Actor Vic Morrow killed, two children killed.  Charges were filed, Landis was found Not Guilty.

Landis and four other crew members were charged with involuntary manslaughter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_manslaughter). The prosecutors demonstrated that Landis was reckless and had not warned the parents, cast or crew of the children's and Morrow's proximity to explosives, or of limitations on their working hours.^{[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Landis#cite_note-Outrageous_Conduct-12)} He admitted that he had violated California law regulating the employment of children by using the children after hours, and conceded that that was "wrong", but still denied culpability.^{[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Landis#cite_note-Outrageous_Conduct-12)} Numerous members of the film crew testified that the director was warned of the extreme hazard by technicians but ignored them. After a nine-month jury trial during 1986 and 1987, Landis, represented by criminal defense attorneys Harland Braun (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harland_Braun) and James F. Neal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_F._Neal), and the other crew members were acquitted of the charges.^{[18] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Landis#cite_note-noe-18)[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Landis#cite_note-19)}

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 23, 2023, 01:12:43 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 23, 2023, 12:32:31 PM

My home protection (from the bad people):
(https://i.imgur.com/cV7FRgX.png)

I can cave your head in with one, and put a hole in you with the other. 

you would never get that close

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on January 23, 2023, 01:15:44 PM

I've got a sharpened version of one of these in my room.  I'm actually better trained with one of these than I am with a handgun.  Bullet accuracy in a situation where both parties are moving is horrendously bad.  Heck, even cops who train with their weapons on a regular basis (at least according to some reports) still only have a 35% accuracy in real-world situations.
You can run out of bullets.  Mr. Stabby is good all night long.

Remember also that we are talking home invasion situations.  I know my house alot better than a standard burglar.


(https://blenderartists.org/uploads/default/original/3X/e/7/e79885243408fe9da06c8daa2b753f3a1e9c6c34.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 23, 2023, 01:35:56 PM

Quote from: grillrat on January 23, 2023, 01:15:44 PM

I've got a sharpened version of one of these in my room.  I'm actually better trained with one of these than I am with a handgun.  Bullet accuracy in a situation where both parties are moving is horrendously bad.  Heck, even cops who train with their weapons on a regular basis (at least according to some reports) still only have a 35% accuracy in real-world situations.
You can run out of bullets.  Mr. Stabby is good all night long.

Remember also that we are talking home invasion situations.  I know my house alot better than a standard burglar.


(https://blenderartists.org/uploads/default/original/3X/e/7/e79885243408fe9da06c8daa2b753f3a1e9c6c34.jpg)

Am I remembering correctly that you were in fencing at Purdue?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 23, 2023, 01:59:22 PM

Quote from: grillrat on January 23, 2023, 01:15:44 PM

I've got a sharpened version of one of these in my room.  I'm actually better trained with one of these than I am with a handgun.  Bullet accuracy in a situation where both parties are moving is horrendously bad.  Heck, even cops who train with their weapons on a regular basis (at least according to some reports) still only have a 35% accuracy in real-world situations.
You can run out of bullets.  Mr. Stabby is good all night long.

Remember also that we are talking home invasion situations.  I know my house alot better than a standard burglar.


(https://blenderartists.org/uploads/default/original/3X/e/7/e79885243408fe9da06c8daa2b753f3a1e9c6c34.jpg)

Ive got an 18 shot clip

If the bastard can get through that then Marvel comics wants to talk to him

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on January 23, 2023, 04:03:03 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 23, 2023, 01:35:56 PM

Am I remembering correctly that you were in fencing at Purdue?

Yup.  Though the sport of fencing and actual sword combat are completely different.
Since then I've also had about 10 years of martial arts training including traditional weapons use (mostly staff and sword, but a touch of nunchaku....which I suck at).

We've done a couple of exercises where a swordsman goes up against a pistol armed opponent.  If the area is open and the distance is more than about 8 feet, the odds are obviously really really bad.  Closer than that though, you'd be surprised at how effective a forward dive roll fall into an upward thrust from a kneeling position is against a gunman.

It's just not something that a gunman usually prepares for.  In the stand-off, when the swordsman starts to move, he is dropping his center-mass as he moves forward, so usually the first round that the gunman gets off is high.  The recoil from the shot pulls the muzzle high, so there is an extra 1/4 second of time that the gunman needs to compensate for and to continue to lower his aim.  Even if the gunman can get a second shot off, it is usually somewhat panicked by the fact that the opponent is closing the distance quickly and is usually also high.  By then, if the roll is executed correctly, the slice is coming upward from close range towards either the gunman's shooting wrist or diagonally up the torso.

I mean, it's still not great odds, but if the gunman isn't expecting it, it's pretty hard to defend against.
Looks a bit like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcHRgY_nKEg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcHRgY_nKEg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 23, 2023, 04:08:42 PM

I read somewhere how the Brits at Waterloo would have been more effective if equipped with long bows.  The problem is that weapon requires years of training.  Use of muskets requires a few weeks or training.

A handgun can be used effectively by a person with indifferent training over a few hours.  Anything else, not so much.  I'm not saying more extensive training is not desirable, just that it isn't necessary.  If you are awakened suddenly and grab a handgun, you likely will be fairly effective with minimal training.  One issue of course is that it could be an unexpected arrival of someone other than a criminal.

But if you need to engage a dangerous adversary, it's best done with a firearm if you have minimal training.  I don't think anything else is close.  (Or you could just fire off a round in the air from a shotgun, that might work ...).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 23, 2023, 04:18:28 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 23, 2023, 12:32:31 PM

My home protection (from the bad people):
(https://i.imgur.com/cV7FRgX.png)

I can cave your head in with one, and put a hole in you with the other. 

Hammer and screw,not only a night out on the town

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2023, 06:30:06 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 23, 2023, 04:08:42 PM

 (Or you could just fire off a round in the air from a shotgun, that might work ...).

that's where the 44 mag or the desert eagle are effective

hand cannons

or if you're rushed by a guy on meth or something similar - the extra knock down power is helpful

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 23, 2023, 08:34:56 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 23, 2023, 12:38:01 PM

And they can put a hole in you at a distance, you can't.

Blunt objects are used more often in homicides than rifles.

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 23, 2023, 01:12:43 PM

you would never get that close

So you guys know that the intruder has a plan?  Or that he's on meth or something, but mapped this whole thing out??

You guys are so funny with your delusions of grandeur with this stuff.  
A vast majority of thieves are cowards and want an empty house.  They'd be more surprised you're home than you are that they're intruding in your home.
.
IF your intruder is some kind of crack shot snooper, he's going to shoot you in your sleep.  None of us can predict how a home invasion will go, which means it's likely to just be a shitshow on all sides, with panic and errors all around.
.
All I know is that if it comes to hand-to-hand, I have no fight experience, but I was an offensive lineman for years and am not small.  If he's a skinny tweaker piece of shit, I'm locking the front door and he's stuck in there with me.  And my hammer and screwdriver are all I need.  <-- delusion of grandeur, see

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 23, 2023, 08:43:14 PM

Im not going to try to find out whats on an intruder's mind.

Im gping to make damn sure he doesnt get a chance to hurt me or my family.

He will be sorry he picked my house cause when he hears a crazy old fart with a fully

loaded glock yelling at him he will soon realize he made a mistake.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 24, 2023, 06:48:58 AM

If I ever need to use lethal force, I'm going to want a firearm.  Not a hammer and screwdriver.  Or sword.

I hope that never happens obviously.  I don't keep a gun bedside.  Security here is pretty good.  

Most of the crime around us is car breakins and theft apparently.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 24, 2023, 07:19:58 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/gaWWBd9.png)

Most have had QBs from the state of GA ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 24, 2023, 08:19:54 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 23, 2023, 08:34:56 PM

 
A vast majority of thieves are cowards and want an empty house. 
.

Not cowards but it kinda ups their chances of success. So in a creepy kind of way good business sense. So what are your plans this week end?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on January 24, 2023, 08:28:03 AM

Any intruder first has to get by my Pitt Terrier who is apparently a light sleeper. While said intruder is engaged with my dog, my 9mm will be pointed at him in case the dog didn't take care of it. I like my chances.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 24, 2023, 08:30:44 AM

I had this kind of chat with some French friends who visited us.  They were amazed that our house, and houses near us, had no fences.  In France, a neighborhood like ours would be heavily fenced in house by house.

I remarked that nearly every house would be armed.  They got it.

This is more true in the sticks, the lone farmhouse is not an easy target unless vacated, and even then, neighbors often spot unusual activity.

A burglar is going to look for low lying fruit and minimal risk obviously.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 24, 2023, 08:31:28 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on January 24, 2023, 08:28:03 AM

Any intruder first has to get by my Pitt Terrier who is apparently a light sleeper. While said intruder is engaged with my dog, my 9mm will be pointed at him in case the dog didn't take care of it. I like my chances.

The dog would make such a ruckus that any burglar would almost certainly go elsewhere before entering.  I would.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 24, 2023, 08:39:52 AM

My dog is a 70 lb black lab mix and she wouldn't harm a fly, but she barks extremely loud at any and every stranger in the house (or within 50 yards of the house if she can see or hear them).  She, too, is  light sleeper so there's zero chance of an intruder entering without our knowledge.

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 23, 2023, 08:34:56 PM

So you guys know that the intruder has a plan?  Or that he's on meth or something, but mapped this whole thing out??

You guys are so funny with your delusions of grandeur with this stuff. 
A vast majority of thieves are cowards and want an empty house.  They'd be more surprised you're home than you are that they're intruding in your home.
.
IF your intruder is some kind of crack shot snooper, he's going to shoot you in your sleep.  None of us can predict how a home invasion will go, which means it's likely to just be a shitshow on all sides, with panic and errors all around.
.
All I know is that if it comes to hand-to-hand, I have no fight experience, but I was an offensive lineman for years and am not small.  If he's a skinny tweaker piece of shit, I'm locking the front door and he's stuck in there with me.  And my hammer and screwdriver are all I need.  <-- delusion of grandeur, see

I think it's strange that you assume everyone with a gun (or a sword) and a plan for defending himself and his family, has some delusion of grandeur about taking on a criminal-- that we actually want or even crave such an encounter.  

An assumption like that might be warranted for the open-carry dipshits who walk around town with rifles slung over their shoulders, but people with handguns in their bedside table aren't really the same category. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 24, 2023, 08:49:11 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 24, 2023, 08:39:52 AM

My dog is a 70 lb black lab mix and she wouldn't harm a fly, but she barks extremely loud at any and every stranger in the house (or within 50 yards of the house if she can see or hear them).  She, too, is  light sleeper so there's zero chance of an intruder entering without our knowledge.

I think it's strange that you assume everyone with a gun (or a sword) and a plan for defending himself and his family, has some delusion of grandeur about taking on a criminal-- that we actually want or even crave such an encounter. 

An assumption like that might be warranted for the open-carry dipshits who walk around town with rifles slung over their shoulders, but people with handguns in their bedside table aren't really the same category.

Bingo.

While permitted to do so, I don't carry. No need to where I live. Be different if I was still roaming around downtown Chicago these days.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 24, 2023, 08:52:00 AM

I have a HS "friend" on FB who constantly pushes hyperliberal opinions (by someone else).  I poke him from time to time just for fun.  He loves some Bob Reich and Heather Ruchardson (who is not that bad IMHO) for example.  Reich appears to have "sold out" completely, nearly as I can tell.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 24, 2023, 09:54:37 AM

hah, I've lived on a dead end street in a town of less than 300 since 1989

I've yet to lock my doors

I don't own a gun any longer, but it was just a bit of peace of mind next to the bed at night

I didn't expect to ever use it and I certainly hoped I'd never

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 24, 2023, 09:57:12 AM

If you are thinking of getting a good guard dog dont get a golden retriever

they are great children dogs but they are not guard dogs

we had one for 15 years and if an intruder had ever broken into our house our golden whould have just sat there and said silverware is on the left and the wall safe is on the right have a good day

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 24, 2023, 09:58:41 AM

golden is for the bark

similar to the report of the 44 mag or a 12 gauge

the bark won't put a hole in the ceiling

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 24, 2023, 10:02:39 AM

Ask a Wine Pro: What Should I Do With the Cork When My Server Presents It? | VinePair (https://vinepair.com/articles/wine-cork-ritual-advice/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_content=57004&utm_campaign=pagepost&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR26YUipYzvX_x3x-NhI2mOmDfEf4v2P1d5aU4MKsodCI96hXuQ4JcbGNe0)

When a server extends their hand and a freshly popped cork lands in front of you, there’s a failsafe way to handle the situation. “If the cork is given to you, take it, say ‘thank you so much,’ and set it right down,” Beavers says. If a sommelier believes that the presentation of the cork serves some greater purpose, they might encourage you to pick it back up and give you instructions on what to do next. Most likely, though, once you’ve set the cork down, the job is done.

Some diners might be tempted to sniff the cork before they place it back on the table — a practice that, Beavers explains, can be used to see if a wine is corked (https://vinepair.com/wine-101/tell-wine-corked/). It might not be worth your time to do this, though. “There is no science to prove that smelling a cork is an indication of cork taint in the bottle (https://vinepair.com/articles/so-your-wine-is-corked-the-5-step-guide-to-getting-your-money-back/),” he says. “There’s also this weird thought that smelling the cork is like smelling the wine. If you’re smelling the cork, you’re just smelling the wine soaked into an organic material that has its own aromas.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 24, 2023, 10:03:42 AM

pretty random there CD

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 24, 2023, 10:09:15 AM

I am a random kind of guy ...

Way back, I tried to devise a computer program to generate random numbers.  It's not very easy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 24, 2023, 10:10:52 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 22, 2023, 04:07:23 PM

That guy has monetized being hated. 
That's why no one respects him.
He purposely has absurd takes just for attention.  And it works.
It's gross.

Sums up the majority of political pundits.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 24, 2023, 10:12:42 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 24, 2023, 10:03:42 AM

pretty random there CD

Californians Move to Texas | Episode 1: Moving Day - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlDWzN6TW5Y)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 24, 2023, 10:18:44 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 24, 2023, 10:10:52 AM

Sums up the majority of political pundits.

And "sports analysts".  They have to write "something", and they need it to garner attention, which leads to hyperbole and outright silliness often as not.  Do they really know more than say ELA or about anyone else here?  Maybe a few have occasional insider info.

Basically, many TV channels feature "24 hours" of stuff on some rather narrow topic, like "news", and they fill much of that with talking heads, opinions, feature shows with someone yacking about some topic that they KNOW their audience wants to hear, how bad those OTHER folks are, etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 24, 2023, 10:28:37 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 23, 2023, 08:34:56 PM

.
IF your intruder is some kind of crack shot snooper, he's going to shoot you in your sleep.  None of us can predict how a home invasion will go, which means it's likely to just be a shitshow on all sides, with panic and errors all around.
.
All I know is that if it comes to hand-to-hand, I have no fight experience, but I was an offensive lineman for years and am not small.  If he's a skinny tweaker piece of shit, I'm locking the front door and he's stuck in there with me.  And my hammer and screwdriver are all I need.  <-- delusion of grandeur, see

This is often correct.  While burglaries and break-ins are on the rise in some places, they're not being committed by special ops teams with a plan and high-level execution.  If they have a firearm, the uncertainty and panic makes them more dangerous to a resident, not less, although they might still suck at aiming a weapon.  Same is true if the resident has a gun (or any weapon, I suppose).  The situation is likely to spin more out of control, not settle down while the intruder realizes he's made a mistake and gets on the floor with his hands behind his back while somebody calls the cops.  This is why the cops in my family and some who are friends have always drilled in me to never, ever produce a gun unless I am plan to use it with deadly intent.  

While I agree with the principle, I realize I never committed to such a thing for much of my adult years and probably would not have pulled a gun on an intruder, even if it was the smart thing to do.  Killing somebody is so abhorrent to me that I probably would've put myself in a bad situation unnecessarily.  However, that's changed now that I'm married and also have a step-son still in the house.  Somewhat unfortunately, I've come to terms with the fact that if somebody gets in my home that's not supposed to be there, I can't afford to ask questions or take chances.  I'm going to do my best to kill them.  The laws are "friendly" in that regard here in Texas (far as I know), although I'd probably want to throw up every minute of the rest of my life and hope to God I never have to do anything like that.  

The last part, I guess that's how I looked at things when I was single.  Oddly, while I didn't want to fire a gun at anybody, I always kept a good clubbing stick nearby and figured I had pretty good odds beating the hell out of somebody.  I've seen a lot of reports of B-and-Es where the perps aren't armed at all or have a pocket knife or something.  I'd have been pissing myself, but I kinda figured if I don't freeze up I'm in better shape than that guy.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: TyphonInc on January 24, 2023, 10:34:27 AM

Love reading the home defense posts. I approach home defense a little differently, I'm more worried about collateral damage, than any property being taken or damaged. My daughters bedroom goes across the steps to our downstairs. I live is suburbia and a house to my west is only 16 feet away from mine.

Those Desert Eagles you guys are toting can go through 4 walls and still have stopping power, I don't want that. So I have a Ruger .45 in our bedroom fire safe with cowboy load (2/3 the power of a regular bullet.) It will still put a hole in a person right in front of me, (or at the bottom of my steps,) but won't make it through 2 sheets of dry way and kill my kid or neighbor. If there is a threat in my house (but not my bedroom) I can open the safe in under 3 seconds and have firepower protection at the ready. My wife and I both take annual gun safety course and I drag her to the range at least once more a year. (Me and my buddies will go out 6+ times to practice.)

I also have a short ninja sword that is bedside (2 fencing classes at OSU, and 4 years of Kendo classes) it's my goto to investigate, like if I hear a strange noise or my dog barks.

We also have a 45 lb pointer that will raise a ruckus if there any strangers/noises she doesn't recognize. (She's more likely to hear that noise before me.) I'd bet it's over a dozen times now that she a barked me awake, and I end up wondering around my house flipping lights on carrying a sheathed sword before figuring out theres a nocturnal animal outside that caught her attention. 

I sleep easy at night confident my family is safe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 24, 2023, 10:35:49 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 22, 2023, 10:39:06 AM

Just ordered, with 1000 rounds (live). Colt 357.


(https://i.imgur.com/S8YifkD.png)

Cheaper than buying a sporty car. At least that's what I'll tell the wife. Knowing her she'll take it and claim it as her own - like the last pistol I bought.

That is Mrs. DeTiger's gun of choice.  I'm not going to say where she keeps it because I don't want the lectures about how guns should always be under lock and key, and already have some misgivings about it myself.  But the fact is, if she (or I) ever needed it in an emergency, it's probably not going to do us much good under lock and key as we'd be toast before we could ever get to it.  It's not in an outright unsafe place, but plenty of people would disagree with its nest, so........save it.  

And I gotta say, when I met her, I was surprised she had this and knew how to use it.  You wouldn't associate her with a pistol just to look at her, and certainly not spending any time with her.  

Texas woman, I suppose.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 24, 2023, 10:37:09 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 24, 2023, 10:02:39 AM

Ask a Wine Pro: What Should I Do With the Cork When My Server Presents It? | VinePair (https://vinepair.com/articles/wine-cork-ritual-advice/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_content=57004&utm_campaign=pagepost&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR26YUipYzvX_x3x-NhI2mOmDfEf4v2P1d5aU4MKsodCI96hXuQ4JcbGNe0)

When a server extends their hand and a freshly popped cork lands in front of you, there’s a failsafe way to handle the situation. “If the cork is given to you, take it, say ‘thank you so much,’ and set it right down,” Beavers says. If a sommelier believes that the presentation of the cork serves some greater purpose, they might encourage you to pick it back up and give you instructions on what to do next. Most likely, though, once you’ve set the cork down, the job is done.

Some diners might be tempted to sniff the cork before they place it back on the table — a practice that, Beavers explains, can be used to see if a wine is corked (https://vinepair.com/wine-101/tell-wine-corked/). It might not be worth your time to do this, though. “There is no science to prove that smelling a cork is an indication of cork taint in the bottle (https://vinepair.com/articles/so-your-wine-is-corked-the-5-step-guide-to-getting-your-money-back/),” he says. “There’s also this weird thought that smelling the cork is like smelling the wine. If you’re smelling the cork, you’re just smelling the wine soaked into an organic material that has its own aromas.”

I always take a look at the cork to see if it's in really poor shape and/or has been compromised.  A good sommelier should have already checked this and sent back anything with a cork that is obviously compromised, but honestly at most restaurants I go to regularly, it's actually a server doing the job.  

Beyond that, I don't do anything.  I'm certainly not sophisticated enough to be able to determine if a wine has been corked simply by smelling the cork, even if such a thing were possible, which many (including the article) suggest is not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 24, 2023, 10:41:20 AM

Quote from: TyphonInc on January 24, 2023, 10:34:27 AM

Love reading the home defense posts. I approach home defense a little differently, I'm more worried about collateral damage, than any property being taken or damaged. My daughters bedroom goes across the steps to our downstairs. I live is suburbia and a house to my west is only 16 feet away from mine.

Those Desert Eagles you guys are toting can go through 4 walls and still have stopping power, I don't want that. So I have a Ruger .45 in our bedroom fire safe with cowboy load (2/3 the power of a regular bullet.) It will still put a hole in a person right in front of me, (or at the bottom of my steps,) but won't make it through 2 sheets of dry way and kill my kid or neighbor. If there is a threat in my house (but not my bedroom) I can open the safe in under 3 seconds and have firepower protection at the ready. My wife and I both take annual gun safety course and I drag her to the range at least once more a year. (Me and my buddies will go out 6+ times to practice.)

I also have a short ninja sword that is bedside (2 fencing classes at OSU, and 4 years of Kendo classes) it's my goto to investigate, like if I hear a strange noise or my dog barks.

We also have a 45 lb pointer that will raise a ruckus if there any strangers/noises she doesn't recognize. (She's more likely to hear that noise before me.) I'd bet it's over a dozen times now that she a barked me awake, and I end up wondering around my house flipping lights on carrying a sheathed sword before figuring out theres a nocturnal animal outside that caught her attention.

I sleep easy at night confident my family is safe.

I've learned a ton of things from this board over the years, perhaps none more important than what you talked about here.  

Years ago when I was still living in Austin, the missing poster Burny was talking about needing to have a plan and understanding about home layout and how many walls is the bullet from your particular gun likely to get through, and do you know which walls your other family are sleeping behind, etc. 

My brother-in-law, cousin, and multiple friends are cops, who have taught me some basics over the years in hopes I'd defend my home and family if I ever had to.  They never mentioned any of that, and I never thought of it.  

BE mentioned he knew some guy who would come take a look at your home, weapon, etc. and help you figure out a good plan for various scenarios.  I've never know anybody like that and probably couldn't afford to pay them, but at least I've tried to think about that stuff and have an understanding of situations where I do and don't want to fire a weapon.  (I mean, obviously I never want to have to fire a weapon, but you know what I mean.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 24, 2023, 10:46:08 AM

of course Burnt knew a guy ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 24, 2023, 10:47:52 AM

The cork from a badly corked/corky wine will smell badly.  But you're better off smelling the wine itself.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on January 24, 2023, 10:49:09 AM

Quote from: TyphonInc on January 24, 2023, 10:34:27 AM

Love reading the home defense posts. I approach home defense a little differently, I'm more worried about collateral damage, than any property being taken or damaged. My daughters bedroom goes across the steps to our downstairs. I live is suburbia and a house to my west is only 16 feet away from mine.

Those Desert Eagles you guys are toting can go through 4 walls and still have stopping power, I don't want that. So I have a Ruger .45 in our bedroom fire safe with cowboy load (2/3 the power of a regular bullet.) It will still put a hole in a person right in front of me, (or at the bottom of my steps,) but won't make it through 2 sheets of dry way and kill my kid or neighbor. If there is a threat in my house (but not my bedroom) I can open the safe in under 3 seconds and have firepower protection at the ready. My wife and I both take annual gun safety course and I drag her to the range at least once more a year. (Me and my buddies will go out 6+ times to practice.)

I also have a short ninja sword that is bedside (2 fencing classes at OSU, and 4 years of Kendo classes) it's my goto to investigate, like if I hear a strange noise or my dog barks.

We also have a 45 lb pointer that will raise a ruckus if there any strangers/noises she doesn't recognize. (She's more likely to hear that noise before me.) I'd bet it's over a dozen times now that she a barked me awake, and I end up wondering around my house flipping lights on carrying a sheathed sword before figuring out theres a nocturnal animal outside that caught her attention.

I sleep easy at night confident my family is safe.

I read this and the first thing that popped into my mind was.....

(https://i.imgur.com/SeUKh7A.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 24, 2023, 10:49:40 AM

yup

I've not been handed the screw cap for inspection or smelling

yet

more and more screw caps on wine

probably for the best

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 24, 2023, 10:49:51 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 24, 2023, 10:37:09 AM

Beyond that, I don't do anything.  I'm certainly not sophisticated enough to be able to determine if a wine has been corked simply by smelling the cork, even if such a thing were possible, which many (including the article) suggest is not.

The sommelier at our wine bar actually brought out a bottle that we'd selected, uncorked it, he smelled the cork and said the wine was corked. He actually took the time to explain how to test it as well, and let us taste the wine so we'd know the difference, before bringing the fresh bottle. 

The cork smelled a little rank and musty. I.e. like wine with a hint of gym sock. The wine itself just tasted "off". And obviously completely different than the fresh bottle. 

What was interesting is that the corked bottle didn't taste terrible. It didn't taste *good*, but I'm sure my wife and I would have just thought it was a wine we didn't like, not actively thought the bottle was ruined by being corked, if we hadn't learned what corked wine smells and tastes like. 

So now, I smell the cork when I open a bottle of wine. 

We've only run into one instance since while out at a restaurant, and that was a wine my wife ordered by the glass. She got it, tasted it, said this isn't right. Had me taste it, and I agreed. They poured her a glass from a new bottle of the same wine and all was well. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 24, 2023, 10:53:49 AM

The problem with "corky" wines is they aren't always off the rails corky, they can be slightly off.  And you may not know the wine very well, if at all.  I let my wife taste, she has better senses than me in taste and smell.  A lightly corky wine can just be rather flat and somewhat insipid without the rank basement/old wet socks odor.

There apparently is a single compound that causes this, trichloroanisole, that is produced by some microorganisms in the cork washing operation apparently.  It can get loose in a wine making operation and damage the entire run.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 24, 2023, 10:56:50 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 24, 2023, 10:53:49 AM

The problem with "corky" wines is they aren't always off the rails corky, they can be slightly off.  And you may not know the wine very well, if at all.  I let my wife taste, she has better senses than me in taste and smell.  A lightly corky wine can just be rather flat and somewhat insipid without the rank basement/old wet socks odor.

There apparently is a single compound that causes this, trichloroanisole, that is produced by some microorganisms in the cork washing operation apparently.  It can get loose in a wine making operation and damage the entire run.

Yeah, this was the case with the wine bar. It was a wine we'd never had, so if we hadn't known what corked wine tastes like, we would have assumed that it was intended to taste like that. We probably would have just thought "well let's not order that one again!"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 24, 2023, 10:58:26 AM

If it's a decent restaurant, you can always ask for the "sommelier" to come check the wine for a third opinion.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 24, 2023, 12:03:38 PM

If they'd just drink the stuff instead of looking,swirling,smelling and surmising - wouldn't need a damn cork/cap as there'd be nothing left. Which i think is the whole idea,damn spinsterish saps

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 24, 2023, 12:14:21 PM

I like the "Stelvin closures" (screwcaps) for nearly all wines folks really consume.  I understand the equipment is a bit expensive, but corks can cost over a buck each.  You'll find better wines have longer corks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 24, 2023, 12:43:56 PM

Yup I'd love to see some screwtop Chateau Margaux.  But them snooty French will never do it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on January 24, 2023, 12:56:59 PM

Quote from: TyphonInc on January 24, 2023, 10:34:27 AM

Love reading the home defense posts. I approach home defense a little differently, I'm more worried about collateral damage, than any property being taken or damaged. My daughters bedroom goes across the steps to our downstairs. I live is suburbia and a house to my west is only 16 feet away from mine.

Those Desert Eagles you guys are toting can go through 4 walls and still have stopping power, I don't want that. So I have a Ruger .45 in our bedroom fire safe with cowboy load (2/3 the power of a regular bullet.) It will still put a hole in a person right in front of me, (or at the bottom of my steps,) but won't make it through 2 sheets of dry way and kill my kid or neighbor. If there is a threat in my house (but not my bedroom) I can open the safe in under 3 seconds and have firepower protection at the ready. My wife and I both take annual gun safety course and I drag her to the range at least once more a year. (Me and my buddies will go out 6+ times to practice.)

I also have a short ninja sword that is bedside (2 fencing classes at OSU, and 4 years of Kendo classes) it's my goto to investigate, like if I hear a strange noise or my dog barks.

We also have a 45 lb pointer that will raise a ruckus if there any strangers/noises she doesn't recognize. (She's more likely to hear that noise before me.) I'd bet it's over a dozen times now that she a barked me awake, and I end up wondering around my house flipping lights on carrying a sheathed sword before figuring out theres a nocturnal animal outside that caught her attention.

I sleep easy at night confident my family is safe.

My Eagle is NOT the .50 cal cannon you are thinking of. Mine is the 9mm Baby Eagle developed by Israili Arms and licsensed to Magnum Research for manufacture in the US. It will not shot through schools. :)

Even so, being as I live in the country, my closest neighbor is a 1/4 mile away and by shooting range is outside my back door. 

That said, I sleep well at night and never really worry about intruders. More often than not, if I am awakened in the middle of the night, it is by my dog, barking at some nocturnal animal wondering around the house. I have NEVER grabbed my gun in this situation. I usually just stumble to where ever my dog is and see what he is barking about, then make a quick trip to the head before attempting to get back to sleep. If I ever do have a situation were I may need my gun, I am confident that the dog will keep the intruder busy allowing me to go back to the bedroom to retrieve it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 24, 2023, 01:29:02 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/4zypc2Y.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on January 24, 2023, 01:37:06 PM

Quote from: TyphonInc on January 24, 2023, 10:34:27 AM

Love reading the home defense posts. I approach home defense a little differently, I'm more worried about collateral damage, than any property being taken or damaged. My daughters bedroom goes across the steps to our downstairs. I live is suburbia and a house to my west is only 16 feet away from mine.

Those Desert Eagles you guys are toting can go through 4 walls and still have stopping power, I don't want that..

That actually happened to an old roommate of mine (long after we were done being roommates) not too far from you, at the south end of Hilliard school district. 


https://www.wlwt.com/article/ohio-man-killed-by-stray-bullet-fired-through-apartment-wall/3535435

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 24, 2023, 01:52:30 PM

Anyone here do the Peloton thing? 

We bought one last June while I was on my little sojourn from this site (missed y'all BTW), and I can say it's changed my relationship with exercise. Instead of being something I dread, it's actually something I look forward to. 

Wife and I have lost about 15 lbs each, but more important, we're feeling stronger and better. And 7 months in, it's still not an expensive clothes rack lol. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 24, 2023, 01:54:27 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/hPToT5H.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 24, 2023, 01:57:31 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 24, 2023, 01:52:30 PM

Anyone here do the Peloton thing?

We bought one last June while I was on my little sojourn from this site (missed y'all BTW), and I can say it's changed my relationship with exercise. Instead of being something I dread, it's actually something I look forward to.

Wife and I have lost about 15 lbs each, but more important, we're feeling stronger and better. And 7 months in, it's still not an expensive clothes rack lol.

A buddy of mine fell into that. Says it got him into a really good rhythm.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 24, 2023, 03:28:05 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 24, 2023, 01:52:30 PM

Anyone here do the Peloton thing?

We bought one last June while I was on my little sojourn from this site (missed y'all BTW), and I can say it's changed my relationship with exercise. Instead of being something I dread, it's actually something I look forward to.

Wife and I have lost about 15 lbs each, but more important, we're feeling stronger and better. And 7 months in, it's still not an expensive clothes rack lol.

We recently purchased something kinda similar....it has moving resistance handlebars like an elliptical, but it's a bike.  Though not nearly as nice as a Pelaton.  I'm aiming for 20 mins a day but I'm very hit and miss.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 24, 2023, 04:19:12 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 24, 2023, 03:28:05 PM

We recently purchased something kinda similar....it has moving resistance handlebars like an elliptical, but it's a bike.  Though not nearly as nice as a Pelaton.  I'm aiming for 20 mins a day but I'm very hit and miss. 

Yeah, tracking it I ended up doing just under 4.5K minutes from June 25 to the end of the year, which is a little over 20 per day on average. 

I'm actually shooting for 15K this year, which is a little over 40 per day. That might be tough to hit. They have annual challenges. I was going to shoot for 10K, then realized I should shoot for 1K/month, but there isn't a 12K badge; the next step up is 15K. So I'm like "might as well go for 15K dammit!"

However, that's not just bike exercises. It includes strength or stretching workouts through the app, and can even track long walks, hiking, etc. I don't run, but it can be used to track outdoor runs too. 

If you had told me 7 months ago that I'd be chasing badges on the Peloton, I'd tell you "Badges? Badges?! I don't need no steeenkin' badges!" Turns out it actually motivates me lol...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 24, 2023, 04:26:34 PM

I blame the badgers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 24, 2023, 04:28:18 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 24, 2023, 04:26:34 PM

I blame the badgers.

For wrecking Purdue football, you mean?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 24, 2023, 04:29:13 PM

Purdue had a football team?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 24, 2023, 04:34:06 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 24, 2023, 04:29:13 PM

Purdue had a football team?

Yeah, until Kyle Orton fumbled the Heisman.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 24, 2023, 04:40:30 PM

Not gonna get into that. 

I haven't watched a Purdue sporting event since the NCAAT last year. 

I don't plan to watch another Purdue sporting event unless they A) get to the Rose Bowl or B) make it to the Final Four. 

Since neither of those things are likely to happen in my lifetime, I'd say my schedule has cleared up significantly. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 24, 2023, 04:47:42 PM

I hear ya.  

Good thing I'm a big fan of volleyball and college baseball, or else my sporting world would be pretty bleak.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 24, 2023, 05:03:05 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 24, 2023, 04:40:30 PM

Not gonna get into that.

I haven't watched a Purdue sporting event since the NCAAT last year.

I don't plan to watch another Purdue sporting event unless they A) get to the Rose Bowl or B) make it to the Final Four.

Since neither of those things are likely to happen in my lifetime, I'd say my schedule has cleared up significantly.

I look forward to your newfound free time leading to you becoming a beer mogul.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 24, 2023, 05:18:20 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 24, 2023, 04:40:30 PM

I don't plan to watch another Purdue sporting event unless they A) get to the Rose Bowl or B) make it to the Final Four.

Since neither of those things are likely to happen in my lifetime, I'd say my schedule has cleared up significantly.

Can always join me cheering on the BROWNS

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 24, 2023, 05:26:56 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 24, 2023, 04:47:42 PM

I hear ya. 

Good thing I'm a big fan of volleyball and college baseball, or else my sporting world would be pretty bleak.

At least you get that....I'm hanging on to women's basketball, ffs.  We used to be a #gymschool, but looks like even the tiny acrobats aren't all that this year.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 24, 2023, 05:42:12 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 24, 2023, 05:18:20 PM

Can always join me cheering on the BROWNS

I think you're missing the point of the support group I'm starting for fans of abusive teams...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on January 24, 2023, 07:46:39 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 24, 2023, 04:40:30 PM

Not gonna get into that.

I haven't watched a Purdue sporting event since the NCAAT last year.

I don't plan to watch another Purdue sporting event unless they A) get to the Rose Bowl or B) make it to the Final Four.

Since neither of those things are likely to happen in my lifetime, I'd say my schedule has cleared up significantly.

So after all that suffering, you willingly sat out the only Big Ten CCG appearance that they are going to have in your lifetime? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 24, 2023, 08:06:26 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on January 24, 2023, 07:46:39 PM

So after all that suffering, you willingly sat out the only Big Ten CCG appearance that they are going to have in your lifetime?

Damn right. 

Buddy texted me as halftime approached (and Purdue was still within striking distance). I told him Michigan vs Purdue was like Purdue vs a MAC team. Sometimes that MAC team can hang for a bit, but once you hit the 2nd half the depth and talent of the better team takes over. Only if there are multiple turnovers after that, can the lesser team hang around and threaten in the 4th qtr. And just like that, Michigan pulled away in the 2nd half. 

I didn't watch it and feel really good about that decision. 

My rule would be "until they win a Rose Bowl" if I didn't live ~60 miles from the stadium and feel like if they actually made it there I'd have to go. 

Purdue has lost the benefit of the doubt. I'm not getting emotionally involved in their sports. I know how it ends.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 24, 2023, 08:07:51 PM

And I say that given that Purdue's basketball team is currently the #1 team in the national rankings. 

They're not going to the Final Four. They'll find a banana peel somewhere to slip on. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on January 24, 2023, 08:20:05 PM

They are going to be "playing in the Rose Bowl" every other year, when UCLA joins. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 24, 2023, 08:22:26 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 24, 2023, 08:07:51 PM

And I say that given that Purdue's basketball team is currently the #1 team in the national rankings.

They're not going to the Final Four. They'll find a banana peel somewhere to slip on.

See what swilling all those IPA's have done have done to you. Quaff an a OKTOBERFEST/Marzen or Austrian Amber Lager ASAP

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 24, 2023, 08:37:14 PM

or an anchor steam in that neighborhood

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 24, 2023, 08:41:05 PM

haven't seen those around

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 24, 2023, 08:43:06 PM

not in your neighborhood at the truckstops

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 24, 2023, 08:43:49 PM

(https://www.anchorbrewing.com/drinksteam/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/EEC_096-1.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 24, 2023, 08:58:56 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 24, 2023, 08:43:06 PM

not in your neighborhood at the truckstops

Or at your livestock auctions

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2023, 05:46:36 AM

I'm pretty sure this was the last year that the champions of the B1G and PAC are tied to the Rose Bowl. Maybe one more?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 25, 2023, 09:22:38 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 25, 2023, 05:46:36 AM

I'm pretty sure this was the last year that the champions of the B1G and PAC are tied to the Rose Bowl. Maybe one more?

Yay, progress.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 25, 2023, 09:56:27 AM

well, with USC and UCLA leaving the PAC.....

just ain't right for the Rose

they've already suffered through back to back Utah games

just imagine Ralphie in the rose

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 25, 2023, 10:33:30 AM

or Herbie Husker

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 25, 2023, 10:34:31 AM

CFB seems to be changing much faster than it ever has in the past, and some of this is not very good IMHO.

NIL
Portal with no barriers
Playoff expansion
Conferences changing

The Almighty Dollar is driving things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 25, 2023, 10:48:06 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 25, 2023, 10:34:31 AM

CFB seems to be changing much faster than it ever has in the past, and some of this is not very good IMHO.

NIL
Portal with no barriers
Playoff expansion
Conferences changing

The Almighty Dollar is driving things.

I believe I read here that there are barriers coming to the portal soon.  Something along the lines of restricting the schollys for a school taking a kid from the portal.  I don't remember the details but it added up to schools needing to be sure about taking up space with a transfer kid, which wouldn't directly affect entry into the portal, but it could indirectly affect it in the long term with schools needing to be more sure about the long term with taking a kid from the portal.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 25, 2023, 10:51:28 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 24, 2023, 08:06:26 PM

Damn right.

Buddy texted me as halftime approached (and Purdue was still within striking distance). I told him Michigan vs Purdue was like Purdue vs a MAC team. Sometimes that MAC team can hang for a bit, but once you hit the 2nd half the depth and talent of the better team takes over. Only if there are multiple turnovers after that, can the lesser team hang around and threaten in the 4th qtr. And just like that, Michigan pulled away in the 2nd half.

I didn't watch it and feel really good about that decision.

My rule would be "until they win a Rose Bowl" if I didn't live ~60 miles from the stadium and feel like if they actually made it there I'd have to go.

Purdue has lost the benefit of the doubt. I'm not getting emotionally involved in their sports. I know how it ends.

You might think you missed nothing by avoiding the bowl, but I'm telling you, seeing Drew Brees on the sideline coaching with the Boilermakers was spectacular.  

Maybe you're not a Brees fan, but you should be.  Everybody should be.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 25, 2023, 01:40:37 PM

While we were out of town, this block got largely demolished.  It used to be some rather scuzzy apartment buildings from the 50s.  It soon will be a high rise development.  The nice Italian restaurant on the block closed and is moving a block away but that building is not quite finished.

(https://i.imgur.com/c4BeJSA.jpg)


(https://i.imgur.com/EJPD1lw.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 25, 2023, 06:13:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 25, 2023, 10:34:31 AM

CFB seems to be changing much faster than it ever has in the past, and some of this is not very good IMHO.

NIL
Portal with no barriers
Playoff expansion
Conferences changing

The Almighty Dollar is driving things.

the almighty dollar has been driving things for more than a century
conferences have been changing for as long as there have been conferences

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on January 25, 2023, 08:54:59 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 25, 2023, 10:51:28 AM

You might think you missed nothing by avoiding the bowl, but I'm telling you, seeing Drew Brees on the sideline coaching with the Boilermakers was spectacular. 

Maybe you're not a Brees fan, but you should be.  Everybody should be. 

I love Brees, and it was a cool sight to see.

But his coaching went about as well as his broadcasting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 26, 2023, 06:28:44 AM

They needed him at QB more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 26, 2023, 10:42:59 AM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on January 25, 2023, 08:54:59 PM

I love Brees, and it was a cool sight to see.

But his coaching went about as well as his broadcasting.

Well, be fair to the guy.  He had limited time to work with effectively a lot of backups, and was going against a team where probably 14-15 of the starters were nfl caliber.  

I don't know that he would be a good or bad coach if he got into it, but I wouldn't judge him based on the bowl.  

That said, my comment was just tongue in cheek.  I love Brees, I miss seeing him, and the camera panning to him a few times on the sideline was the highlight of bowl season for me.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 26, 2023, 12:18:40 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 26, 2023, 06:28:44 AM

They needed him at QB more.

I'm not sure Brees, Alstott, or Gene Keady's haircut could have helped much in that game.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 26, 2023, 01:04:06 PM

John Wooden maybe?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 26, 2023, 01:08:13 PM

I'm picturing a faux war movie - the Russians are invading West Lafayette.....it's called "The Combover Offensive!"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2023, 01:23:10 PM

WOLVERINES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2023, 07:16:23 AM

We used to have a hot convo about Ukraine.  It's still in the news, albeit to a lesser extent, and the battle lines seem to have stagnated largely with some minor shifts.

The recent news is about sending Western tanks to Ukraine.  I know the Abrams is a logistical nightmare of sorts and requires a good bit of training to employ and support effectively.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on January 27, 2023, 07:44:37 AM

I think the US did an about face this week on the M1 Abrams just to get the feckless Germans to agree to sending them their more suitable Leopard tanks.  Military people seem to think a Ukraine armed with a large number of Leopard 2s as well as the other armored vehicles the West is sending them has a good chance to break the trench warfare and push the Russians out.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2023, 07:48:34 AM

The best thing would be to take out dickface Putin. The problem is that he probably has 10 look-alikes running around.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2023, 07:50:03 AM

The effective use of tanks in combined arms warfare requires a good deal of training, planning, and skill in other areas, like achieving some degree of air superiority and a strong logistics effort.  The Ukrainians stopped Russian tanks with cheap missiles, the Russians can do the same.

It's not as if the Leopard II is massively better than the T-82.  It's better if used wisely.  I won't be shocked if Ukraine digs a lot of these in as semi-mobile pill boxes, which would be defensive in nature.  I can't quite see them mounting a real offensive like was seen in WW 2.  I dunno.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on January 27, 2023, 08:10:57 AM

The modern Leopard 2A6 is a huge upgrade over the Soviet T-72s and T-90s.    The war in Ukraine is becoming one of survival for Putin.  Putin is running out of options like the cornered rat from his childhood.  Putin still can declare war and mobilize Russia which would be bad for his image at home.  Should he be overthrown his replacement will be just as hard line but would be free to extricate Russia from Ukraine.  Lets hope that happens without Putin resorting to tactical nukes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2023, 08:23:23 AM

It's more capable if used wisely, sure.  That is the question in my mind.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2023, 08:48:41 AM

Andrew Zimmern's Unpopular Opinion About American Breakfast (thedailymeal.com) (https://www.thedailymeal.com/1174717/andrew-zimmerns-unpopular-opinion-about-american-breakfast/?fbclid=IwAR3SHCC-7Iz6mr0jXa7LLt-2vOxxnVYYC14Jxrbh9rozJhQ-qExYRduhNVs)

Unsurprisingly, in the Super-Sized food culture of the U.S., breakfast is big — and big business. Statista reports that 283.39 million Americans chowed down on cold breakfast cereal in 2020, and in 2022, the country spent almost $1.40 billion on bacon and ate almost 300 eggs per person. But the idea of a hearty, greasy morning meal is kind of unique to the States. Around the world, breakfasts tend to be on the lighter side, like pastries, fruits, and simple plates of meat, fish, and veggies. CNN Travel juxtaposes international breakfasts like Tunisian chickpea soup with American buttermilk pancakes, which are often made with chocolate chips, paired with bacon, and always drowning in maple syrup. So it's little wonder that globetrotting food celebs like Andrew Zimmern have experienced all kinds of breakfasts — and find the stateside spread to be problematic.

Read More: https://www.thedailymeal.com/1174717/andrew-zimmerns-unpopular-opinion-about-american-breakfast/


I know who to blame ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2023, 09:06:16 AM

When it comes to cooking scrambled eggs, Burrell swears by adding a tablespoon of water to the eggs just before they are beaten together, per The Daily Star. This helps cook the eggs to perfection because as the water boils the steam distributes heat, which ensures an even cooking process (via Real Simple). This process benefits the egg's final texture, as explained by food scientist Natalie Alibrandi. "By adding water to eggs, you're preventing the proteins from binding too quickly," she said. "The water creates steam when heated, and the result is a fluffier texture. [However] If you add too much water, your eggs will be runnier and more diluted in flavor," (via Well + Good).

Read More: https://www.thedailymeal.com/1100222/secret-ingredients-celeb-chefs-use-in-their-scrambled-eggs/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2023, 10:05:41 AM

I much prefer the European breakfasts to the gut bombs served here.

Breakfast is absolutely NOT the most important meal of the day.

I know who to blame.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2023, 10:15:54 AM

Interior Blocks Twin Metals Mining Project In Big Win For Beijing (thefederalist.com) (https://thefederalist.com/2023/01/26/interior-department-blocks-minnesota-twin-metals-mining-project-in-big-win-for-beijing/)


Nice work...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 27, 2023, 10:29:06 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2023, 07:48:34 AM

The best thing would be to take out dickface Putin. The problem is that he probably has 10 look-alikes running around.

Yup

Quote from: Temp430 on January 27, 2023, 08:10:57 AM

The modern Leopard 2A6 is a huge upgrade over the Soviet T-72s and T-90s.    The war in Ukraine is becoming one of survival for Putin.  Putin is running out of options like the cornered rat from his childhood.  Putin still can declare war and mobilize Russia which would be bad for his image at home.  Should he be overthrown his replacement will be just as hard line but would be free to extricate Russia from Ukraine.  Lets hope that happens without Putin resorting to tactical nukes.

Yeah and they're not really seeing any T-90s, which means Russia doesn't have any to send.  I'm assuming that some general appropriated most of the modern tank budget to build his dachas in Crimea.

The most modern tank Ukraine is facing with any regularity is the T-72, and those are getting wiped out easily en masse.  Mostly because the Russians have proven terrible at using combined arms strategies.  They often send infantry without armor, artillery, or air support, as well as sending armor without infantry support.  The Western nations training Ukraine are proving their methods using combined arms to be far more effective.

Obviously though, there's a difference between holding ground, and attempting to retake it.  That's going to be difficult for Ukraine, unless/until Russia runs out of meat to throw into the grinder.  Russian losses to this point would be considered catastrophic for any Western country, but unfortunately Russians are more than accustomed to allowing their leaders have them slaughtered.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on January 27, 2023, 10:51:24 AM

I was thinking that our supply of Abrams tanks was kind of limited, like we haven’t made any new ones in decades. 

I don’t think the average person realizes that the tank is powered by a gas turbine engine, basically a jet engine in a tank. 

I’m sorta worried one will get lost and fall into Russias hands. But then I think maybe tanks have become like battleships. Not very useful on the modern battlefield. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 27, 2023, 10:57:01 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 27, 2023, 10:29:06 AM

Obviously though, there's a difference between holding ground, and attempting to retake it.  That's going to be difficult for Ukraine, unless/until Russia runs out of meat to throw into the grinder.  Russian losses to this point would be considered catastrophic for any Western country, but unfortunately Russians are more than accustomed to allowing their leaders have them slaughtered.

Oh, c'mon, man.  

Stalin only killed, like, 20 million Russians.  And some estimates say as little as 6 million of his own people killed.  

I mean, the Russians didn't even come close to breaking Mao's record, who's undefeated streak against 60 million Chinese nationals still makes him the GOAT on every Communist National Title ranking I've seen.  Some people try to make the argument that D1-AA--now FCS (F'in Communist Socialist)--Pol Pot is actually the GOAT adjusted for weight class, but imo Cambodia's special teams were weak and the defense was suspect. 

:72:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2023, 11:00:03 AM

Sending 31 over there won't really dent our supply.  Over 10,000 were built, some of those are in mothballs now.

M1 Abrams Tanks In U.S. Inventory Have Armor Too Secret To Send To Ukraine (thedrive.com) (https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/m1-abrams-tanks-in-u-s-inventory-have-armor-too-secret-to-send-to-ukraine)

The Abrams was designed to take on heavy Soviet armor in Europe.  It has been used to augment infantry basically providing close artillery support (Marines used it in Iraq to take out houses).  The USMC has recently removed them from their inventory.  Other weapons are about as effective for what Marines think they will need, and a lot lighter with less logistical demands.

I think this 31 figure is more for show than go, to get the Germans on board.  Having to maintain such highly technical tanks of several kinds (including the Chieftan) may be beyond Ukrainian capacity.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 27, 2023, 12:06:47 PM

Too secret? Maybe but I'd bet a craftily made Molotov Cocktail would still disable it, those aren't secret

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 27, 2023, 12:07:49 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 27, 2023, 07:48:34 AM

The best thing would be to take out dickface Putin. The problem is that he probably has 10 look-alikes running around.

Kill 'em all,stay tuned for more helpful hints

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 27, 2023, 12:11:21 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 27, 2023, 08:48:41 AM

Andrew Zimmern's Unpopular Opinion About American Breakfast (thedailymeal.com)

Andrew Zimmern have experienced all kinds of breakfasts — and find the stateside spread to be problematic. (https://www.thedailymeal.com/1174717/andrew-zimmerns-unpopular-opinion-about-american-breakfast/?fbclid=IwAR3SHCC-7Iz6mr0jXa7LLt-2vOxxnVYYC14Jxrbh9rozJhQ-qExYRduhNVs)

Whatever his opinion one glance at that keg of his tells me he's indulged

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 27, 2023, 12:12:35 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 27, 2023, 12:07:49 PM

Kill 'em all,stay tuned for more helpful hints

yup

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 27, 2023, 01:09:45 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 27, 2023, 11:00:03 AM

I think this 31 figure is more for show than go, to get the Germans on board.  Having to maintain such highly technical tanks of several kinds (including the Chieftan) may be beyond Ukrainian capacity.

Definitely, it's really just for show, either to push Germany into sending their Leopards, or providing cover for them to do so, depending on how you view German engagement thus far.

From what I've read the Abrams carries such a long long logistical tail that it's not really practical for the front lines in this specific conflict.  But right now with rumors that Russia wants to mount another offensive push toward Kyiv or Lviv, and some evidence in Belarus that such a thing might be a credible threat, I think the Abrams could be useful for defense in those areas of Ukraine that are not currently on the front with Russian forces.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2023, 07:30:51 AM

Someone Tried to Steal My Car

https://youtu.be/LIoUR_hUTwo

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 28, 2023, 10:39:23 AM

https://youtu.be/QCcgZkiqZB0

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2023, 10:41:22 AM

Please... no.

Air Force general predicts war with China in 2025, tells officers to prep by firing 'a clip' at a target, and 'aim for the head' (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/air-force-general-predicts-war-with-china-in-2025-tells-officers-to-prep-by-firing-a-clip-at-a-target-and-aim-for-the-head/ar-AA16P4iD?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=6251bb62995147e6b5a41c46edf4dc23)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2023, 11:54:29 AM

There will be zero wars with China that involve anyone shooting anyone else.  I promise.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 28, 2023, 11:56:51 AM

Air Force looking for head shots???

Fighter jet armaments have come a long way

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2023, 01:02:14 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2023, 11:54:29 AM

There will be zero wars with China that involve anyone shooting anyone else.  I promise. 

China has had shooting wars in the not too distant past.  It's hardly implausible to think they could invade Taiwan.  I don't think they will any time soon, but I can't promise that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2023, 04:17:59 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 28, 2023, 03:53:52 PM

well, Trump would have loved the idea of transporting those folks to liberal cities such as DC, NYC, Chicago.
He might have thrown money at the idea
It certainly could have been done a few years ago
So, no change
I understand more than ever are crossing.  I thought this was happening because the rules from the Trump era could possibly change soon, but nothing has changed

Military recruiting has made a noticeable change in the overall strength of the military?
No, I hadn't heard that.
Lack of good employee recruiting is a problem for most industries and organizations
I hear more about teacher shortages and law enforcement.
But, schools aren't closing or putting students in study hall or recess

Everything changed. No more wall construction - it would be done by now. Messaging to migrants is to just come on in. He initially cancelled the Remain in Mexico policy, which has since been reinstated after Texas won a lawsuit. Migrants can come in without a Covid test, but up until a few months ago, you and I couldn't. Anyway, enough of this. It's off-topic and not appropriate on the Covid thread.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2023, 04:19:04 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 28, 2023, 04:13:46 PM

I was not a fan of Obama or Clinton but I was never embarrassed to have them at the POTUS position

There is not a day when I truely dont feel embarrassed with Brandon in the WH

He is  the worst President weve ever had and probably the most corrupt as well

If we have to elect a dem please let it be someone else

This is my feeling.

But not on the Covid thread.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 28, 2023, 04:21:01 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 28, 2023, 01:02:14 PM

China has had shooting wars in the not too distant past.  It's hardly implausible to think they could invade Taiwan.  I don't think they will any time soon, but I can't promise that.

A shooting war with Taiwan is a shooting war with the US.  Not going to happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2023, 04:37:32 PM

I don't think China would attack because they are winning the Long Game without it, and an actual military attack would cost them enormously, I think, even if successful.  But this hinges on their leaders being "rational".

I thought Putin would act rationally and was wrong.  That surprised me, a lot.

A smaller but highly motivated military can be a very tough nut to crack.  The morale is to the material as ten is to one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 28, 2023, 05:00:22 PM

why invade an island 300 miles long about 100 miles off the coast?

could simply blockade and siege 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 28, 2023, 05:08:53 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2023, 04:17:59 PM

Everything changed. No more wall construction - it would be done by now. Messaging to migrants is to just come on in. He initially cancelled the Remain in Mexico policy, which has since been reinstated after Texas won a lawsuit. Migrants can come in without a Covid test, but up until a few months ago, you and I couldn't. Anyway, enough of this. It's off-topic and not appropriate on the Covid thread.

since we're not on the COVID thread.......
I'm not arguing, just trying to understand what changed
messaging I understand & I understand there's an impact, but not much of a real change in policy or action

no more wall construction is not a physical change, it's actually no change
Trump forced COVID tests on migrants? and then sent them back if positive?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 28, 2023, 05:23:54 PM

one big change is that Mexico is no longer helping to stop the mass from approaching the boarder

Trump had reached an agreement with Mexico and Brandon has walked away from it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2023, 10:17:01 PM

Ying Fang sings Barbarina’s aria from Le Nozze di Figaro 2014 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vv4UzP_xBg)

Ying Fang, Ilia - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eO_uRsc2vA)

This gal sang at the concert tonight, she can light up the auditorium.  Maybe the best female voice I've ever heard.

Other than my wife's.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 28, 2023, 11:38:14 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 28, 2023, 10:17:01 PM

Ying Fang sings Barbarina’s aria from Le Nozze di Figaro 2014 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vv4UzP_xBg)

Ying Fang, Ilia - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eO_uRsc2vA)

This gal sang at the concert tonight, she can light up the auditorium.  Maybe the best female voice I've ever heard.

Other than my wife's.

good nap taking stuff

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2023, 07:54:56 AM

wife's voices?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2023, 08:01:28 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 28, 2023, 05:00:22 PM

why invade an island 300 miles long about 100 miles off the coast?

could simply blockade and siege

A blockade is an act of war of course and Taiwan would respond accordingly.  China could mine the waters, that is more surreptitious.  I don't know the state of mine technology today, they aren't used much anywhere, though were in the Iran-Iraq war.  I know some can be sunk and remain inactive for a time and then become active on command.  One way to deter a Chinese ground invasion would be with mines.  They can be troublesome for supply and troop ships.

If China did invade, logistics would be their toughest challenge and weakest link unless they had air superiority in the straits.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2023, 08:07:08 AM

so, Biden would park multiple aircraft carriers near Taiwan to provide the superior air support?

I'd guess once China put troops on the island there wouldn't be much resistance

not familiar with Taiwan's military strength but, the island is a bout 300 miles long and not 100 miles wide

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2023, 08:21:49 AM

Taiwan has a pretty tough military today, they would put up a fight.  It would take days for the US to get multiple carriers into position, we could get one in fairly quickly.  China would be prepared for that of course.

Our submarines would probably be a more dangerous adversary for the Chinese.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2023, 08:40:11 AM

sinking transport troop ships?

or nukes?

I wouldn't think the subs would want to be in the 100 mile wide space between the mainland and the island

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2023, 08:46:03 AM

Subs have long range antiship missiles on board, they don't have to use close in torpedoes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2023, 09:02:11 AM

Ex-NATO commander says West sending Ukraine tanks ‘creates real problems for Putin’ | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/international/3834672-ex-nato-commander-says-west-sending-ukraine-tanks-creates-real-problems-for-putin/)

I lean to thinking this is overselling the tactical value of these tanks, but of course, I can't be sure of that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 29, 2023, 09:14:08 AM

https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-top-nuclear-weapons-lab-used-american-computer-chips-decades-after-ban-11674990320?st=kb54yww36dmvnxo&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2023, 09:19:50 AM

shocking

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2023, 09:21:28 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 29, 2023, 09:02:11 AM

Ex-NATO commander says West sending Ukraine tanks ‘creates real problems for Putin’ | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/international/3834672-ex-nato-commander-says-west-sending-ukraine-tanks-creates-real-problems-for-putin/)

I lean to thinking this is overselling the tactical value of these tanks, but of course, I can't be sure of that.

I think you're probably correct, but here's hoping the tanks kick some ruskie ass

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2023, 09:25:17 AM

Tanks used offensively need support from air, artillery, infantry, and intelligence.  The air part is critical for obvious reasons.  You could have a zillion tanks and see them blown up from Russki helos operating with impunity.  Russki helos are pretty nasty.

And of course if you used the tanks effectively to generate a critical corridor through an opponent's defenses, then you need to hold the flanks against any counterattack.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2023, 09:35:59 AM

mobile artillery?

behind the line

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2023, 09:40:10 AM

I just don't know if the Ukranians can use these tanks on the offensive effectively.  This isn't like 23 Easting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2023, 09:50:47 AM

I just had about the goofiest call to United to check our flights ever, which is why I hate having to call Customer "Service".  I understand they put these centers in wherever has cheap labor, and barely passable English, but it's really awful.  I was finally sent to her "supervisor" (which probably is the gal seated next to her) who was about equally clueless.  Thanks for the Internet, Al.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2023, 09:58:18 AM

Southwest has an app I use to check flights

what could go wrong?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 29, 2023, 09:59:39 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 29, 2023, 09:25:17 AM

Tanks used offensively need support from air, artillery, infantry, and intelligence.

Correct combined arms,like fingers on a hand they need each other

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2023, 10:27:29 AM

The University of Wisconsin Law School won't participate in this year's U.S. News & World Report rankings, a decision made in protest of how the magazine prioritizes metrics that the school says conflict with its underlying values of accessibility and affordability.

The school's decision, announced Thursday, follows more than a dozen other law schools in a cross-country revolt against the rankings. The withdrawals began last fall when Yale Law School, long ranked No. 1 in the country, said it would not participate because of how the rankings made it harder for schools to admit and support low-income students.


https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/education/2023/01/26/university-of-wisconsin-law-school-withdraws-from-u-s-news-rankings/69715878007/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/education/2023/01/26/university-of-wisconsin-law-school-withdraws-from-u-s-news-rankings/69715878007/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 29, 2023, 02:53:24 PM

That's a pretty baller move by Yale:  we're #1 on your list, but we think your list sucks, so we're out.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 29, 2023, 05:48:40 PM

What worries me about China/Taiwan is TSMC. I know @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) knows what I'm talking about here. 

Right now the West (led by the US) is in a technology embargo war with China. We're restricting exports of the tools they need to build advanced semiconductors. 

TSMC is a HUGE linchpin in the global semiconductor market, and based (of course) in Taiwan. Their value can't be overstated to people outside the industry. And semiconductors are, to a large extent, the lifeblood of the modern economy. Essentially every electronic device you own has some semi content in it. Not just your phone, or your PC. I'm talking about your smoke detector. I'm talking about your coffeemaker. Your stove. Your car is full of them. Basically any device that uses electricity is using a modern semiconductor. 

If China is being blocked (by the US) from the tech necessary to create advanced semis, do they roll the dice and say "well we're going to simply take it from TSMC"? If they try to do so, does TSMC get sabotaged internally or bombed externally to take it away from China? 

W/O TSMC, the global economy will be decimated. At that point it doesn't matter if we or China win; everyone is royally screwed. TSMC is in Taiwan. China thinks they own Taiwan. We're poking China. What will they do? 

The rational answer is nothing. Because the demise of TSMC will hurt China terribly. But as Cincy says, we thought Putin would act rationally. And look at how that turned out. 

This (among other things) is what keeps me up at night.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 29, 2023, 05:55:10 PM

That and Purdue Football

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 29, 2023, 07:06:44 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 29, 2023, 05:55:10 PM

That and Purdue Football

Didn't watch a minute of Purdue football this year. Granted, I rarely have any expectations for Purdue football. I know how that story ends. It's decades of irrelevance punctuated by short periods of occasionally looking mildly competent. 

Also haven't watched a minute of Purdue basketball this year, despite the fact that we're #1. I also know how that story ends--with a disappointing March. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 29, 2023, 07:31:18 PM

Stop It! Boilers take the hardware

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2023, 07:45:33 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 29, 2023, 05:48:40 PM

What worries me about China/Taiwan is TSMC. I know @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) knows what I'm talking about here.

Right now the West (led by the US) is in a technology embargo war with China. We're restricting exports of the tools they need to build advanced semiconductors.

TSMC is a HUGE linchpin in the global semiconductor market, and based (of course) in Taiwan. Their value can't be overstated to people outside the industry. And semiconductors are, to a large extent, the lifeblood of the modern economy. Essentially every electronic device you own has some semi content in it. Not just your phone, or your PC. I'm talking about your smoke detector. I'm talking about your coffeemaker. Your stove. Your car is full of them. Basically any device that uses electricity is using a modern semiconductor.

If China is being blocked (by the US) from the tech necessary to create advanced semis, do they roll the dice and say "well we're going to simply take it from TSMC"? If they try to do so, does TSMC get sabotaged internally or bombed externally to take it away from China?

W/O TSMC, the global economy will be decimated. At that point it doesn't matter if we or China win; everyone is royally screwed. TSMC is in Taiwan. China thinks they own Taiwan. We're poking China. What will they do?

The rational answer is nothing. Because the demise of TSMC will hurt China terribly. But as Cincy says, we thought Putin would act rationally. And look at how that turned out.

This (among other things) is what keeps me up at night.

As you know, agree entirely with the basis of your statements.

BUT

There's a big difference between the leadership in China, and the crazy dictator in Russia.

The Chinese think, plan, and act, generationally.  Even the current authoritarian government won't act irrationally for short term gains.

Dickface putin, on the other hand, is completely off the reservation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2023, 06:39:08 AM

We are relying on Chinese leadership to be rational, which isn't really a great bet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2023, 07:09:21 AM

Ukraine is relying on Soviet-era tanks to hold the line until Western reinforcements arrive | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/30/europe/ukraine-soviet-era-tanks-russia-cmd-intl/index.html)

They don't seem to be using tanks in this area against enemy tanks.

Western tanks can fire different kinds of rounds depending on nature of the target, most are anti-tank rounds like Sabot, which isn't at all good against infantry, or HEAT, which is the same.  They need HE rounds to attack lightly armored targets.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on January 30, 2023, 07:23:22 AM

For the M1A2 Abrams the US has the M1026 anti-infantry cannister shot round and the M908 HE round.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2023, 07:28:21 AM

Yup, the Abrams uses the same 120 mm smoothbore as the Leopard and Challenger.

I thought it interesting how smoothbores came back into vogue.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on January 30, 2023, 07:40:11 AM

The 120mm "smooth bore" is actually lightly rifled at a much slower spin rate to help shells separate from their sabot.  Fin or air drag stabilization works better for the longer armor penetrator and HEAT rounds. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2023, 07:43:32 AM

I did not know that. Thanks.  I knew some rounds have "fins" that project after they leave the barrel.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 30, 2023, 08:44:14 AM

many chemists probably know this...........

In case of an emergency, crushed animal bones can be used to clean water that has been contimaniated with uranium and arsenic

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 30, 2023, 03:06:36 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 30, 2023, 06:39:08 AM

We are relying on Chinese leadership to be rational, which isn't really a great bet.

It's been an excellent bet for centuries, if you understand that to them, staying in power and subjugating the masses, is the definition of "rational action."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 30, 2023, 05:07:12 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 30, 2023, 03:06:36 PM

It's been an excellent bet for centuries, if you understand that to them, staying in power and subjugating the masses, is the definition of "rational action."

I'd argue that the technological changes of last couple of decades have dramatically changed their ability to have a hold on the population (and the population's access to uncensored information). It's not the same situation as it was for many of those centuries. 

They're riding an edge in that they have to keep showing economic progress to those masses. They have to make the populace trust that while they might not have social freedoms, the government is actually making things better. 

Zero-COVID put a huge dent in that trust. They're reeling. If our semiconductor export restrictions crater their economic growth, then they lose that trust even further. 

So they're backed into a corner. At that point, what do they do? Modernize? Liberalize? Admit they've been wrong? Nah...

They turn around and blame an external actor (America, for our export restrictions) and convince your populace that bringing Taiwan, which you consider your rightful property anyway, back into the fold is a good idea to restore China's greatness and access to critical technology. And you make yourself believe that America or Taiwan will NEVER sabotage TSMC because all we care about is money and we won't shoot ourselves in the foot either. 

The biggest question, IMHO, is whether they think they're powerful enough to pull it off. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 30, 2023, 05:28:47 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 30, 2023, 05:07:12 PM

I'd argue that the technological changes of last couple of decades have dramatically changed their ability to have a hold on the population (and the population's access to uncensored information). It's not the same situation as it was for many of those centuries.

They're riding an edge in that they have to keep showing economic progress to those masses. They have to make the populace trust that while they might not have social freedoms, the government is actually making things better.

Zero-COVID put a huge dent in that trust. They're reeling. If our semiconductor export restrictions crater their economic growth, then they lose that trust even further.

So they're backed into a corner. At that point, what do they do? Modernize? Liberalize? Admit they've been wrong? Nah...

They turn around and blame an external actor (America, for our export restrictions) and convince your populace that bringing Taiwan, which you consider your rightful property anyway, back into the fold is a good idea to restore China's greatness and access to critical technology. And you make yourself believe that America or Taiwan will NEVER sabotage TSMC because all we care about is money and we won't shoot ourselves in the foot either.

The biggest question, IMHO, is whether they think they're powerful enough to pull it off.

Yes, I agree it's different for them now, and more difficult.  But their aims are exactly the same.  What you've stated completely aligns to my point, other than your suggestion that they might jeopardize their economic well-being by attacking Taiwan, which is by necessity equivalent to attacking the US and the West.

They're not going to do it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 30, 2023, 07:40:47 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 30, 2023, 05:28:47 PM

Yes, I agree it's different for them now, and more difficult.  But their aims are exactly the same.  What you've stated completely aligns to my point, other than your suggestion that they might jeopardize their economic well-being by attacking Taiwan, which is by necessity equivalent to attacking the US and the West.

They're not going to do it.

I hope you're right.

I also think they're not going to do it, to be honest.

But it's one of those "back of the mind" worries that gets to me. I'd like to assume they're going to be rational. But you know what happens when you ass-u-me, right? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 30, 2023, 08:04:20 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 30, 2023, 07:40:47 PM

I hope you're right.

I also think they're not going to do it, to be honest.

But it's one of those "back of the mind" worries that gets to me. I'd like to assume they're going to be rational. But you know what happens when you ass-u-me, right?

Oh yeah it's definitely one of those back of mind things. 

I hope I'm right, too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on January 30, 2023, 09:33:19 PM

We saw Jagged Little Pill yesterday.  I HATE jukebox my musicals, and it was overly preachy, even by Broadway standards.  But given those two major caveats, I enjoyed it for what it was.  The female lead on the US Tour originated the role on Broadway, and has two Tony nominations.  One of the supporting characters, who got to sing Hand In My Pocket and You Oughta Know, sounded exactly like Alanis.  It was absolute fan porn, but if you are my age, and were in middle/high school when that album came out, it was an enjoyable guilty pleasure 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 30, 2023, 09:57:28 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 30, 2023, 07:40:47 PM

I hope you're right.

I also think they're not going to do it, to be honest.

But it's one of those "back of the mind" worries that gets to me. I'd like to assume they're going to be rational. But you know what happens when you ass-u-me, right?

With situations like that, I've tried to be better about unplugging. 

Like, it well could happen, and a lot of stuff could go to shit. But I can't do a lick to control it. And a lot more mundane stuff could also absolutely ruin my life. 

I think I might be preaching nihilism. But I'm sure some moments of all our fandoms would make us want to believe in nothing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 30, 2023, 10:24:44 PM

Weird History

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2023, 11:26:58 AM

Investigation on this will be interesting.

100,000 chickens die in fire at Connecticut egg farm | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/3836445-100000-chickens-die-in-fire-at-connecticut-egg-farm/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 31, 2023, 12:37:00 PM

Quote from: ELA on January 30, 2023, 09:33:19 PM

We saw Jagged Little Pill yesterday.  I HATE jukebox my musicals, and it was overly preachy, even by Broadway standards.  But given those two major caveats, I enjoyed it for what it was.  The female lead on the US Tour originated the role on Broadway, and has two Tony nominations.  One of the supporting characters, who got to sing Hand In My Pocket and You Oughta Know, sounded exactly like Alanis.  It was absolute fan porn, but if you are my age, and were in middle/high school when that album came out, it was an enjoyable guilty pleasure

(https://i.imgur.com/GiC2nGa.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 31, 2023, 12:55:17 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2023, 11:26:58 AM

Investigation on this will be interesting.

100,000 chickens die in fire at Connecticut egg farm | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/3836445-100000-chickens-die-in-fire-at-connecticut-egg-farm/)

Shouldn't it say "Massive Chicken BBQ in Connecticut"?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2023, 01:03:25 PM

Police arrest fake officer armed with knives on Capitol Hill - NewsBreak (https://www.newsbreak.com/news/2909395607427/police-arrest-fake-officer-armed-with-knives-on-capitol-hill)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 31, 2023, 02:06:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 31, 2023, 01:03:25 PM

Police arrest fake officer armed with knives on Capitol Hill - NewsBreak (https://www.newsbreak.com/news/2909395607427/police-arrest-fake-officer-armed-with-knives-on-capitol-hill)

Another coup attempt, no doubt.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 31, 2023, 02:46:46 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 31, 2023, 01:03:25 PM

Police arrest fake officer armed with knives on Capitol Hill - NewsBreak (https://www.newsbreak.com/news/2909395607427/police-arrest-fake-officer-armed-with-knives-on-capitol-hill)

Getting caught by the bike cops has to sting 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2023, 09:32:50 AM

How to Spot an American Tourist Abroad – Herald Weekly (https://www.heraldweekly.com/how-to-spot-an-american-tourist-abroad/35?xcmg=1)

I found many of these to be true, and try and avoid them in France...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 01, 2023, 09:58:19 AM

Yeah those are all pretty much true.  

But I can write a similar piece regarding tourists from other countries here in the US.  People from different cultures act differently, shocking!  Film at 11!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 01, 2023, 10:32:33 AM

Talking bout Americans wearing shorts abroad, reminds me-- I remember being in Italy, in a beach town on the Mediterranean.  It was 95 degrees on a mid June day.  We're walking around doing the tourist thing, and of course I'm wearing shorts, because it's 95 degrees.  And of course the locals are all wearing long pants, because... well, they're complete morons I guess.  But what really took the cake, was the older Italian gentleman wearing leather pants, out on the beach.  

Leather.

Pants.

95 degrees, on the beach, wearing leather pants.

So yeah... I'm cool with Italians mocking me for wearing shorts.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 01, 2023, 10:48:55 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 01, 2023, 10:32:33 AM

So yeah... I'm cool with Italians mocking me for wearing shorts. 

Amen to that, brother.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2023, 02:19:43 PM

So, we're off on this crazy trip to the mideast next Friday, and I'm still musing about which lenses to take with my Nikon.  I'm sorta settled on taking only my standard lens, an 18-55, which is nice and small and light.  I have an 18-400, which of course provides a lot of reach but is heavy.  My wife upgraded to an iPhone 14 and it takes incredible snapshots anyway.

Hopefully all goes to plan and we don't get taken by pirates or terrorists or Illinois Nazis.  I'm always a bit nervous about flights getting us there on time of course, but we have a two day window at least.  I'm pretty excited to see Petra, my wife claims Egypt is a something, and she's excited to see Jerusalem.  I imagine we'll be triple checking our stuff and worrying about what to pack.  It gets cool at night at these places, even Dubai.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2023, 02:28:28 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 01, 2023, 10:32:33 AM

  But what really took the cake, was the older Italian gentleman wearing leather pants, out on the beach. 

Leather.

Pants.

95 degrees, on the beach, wearing leather pants.

Did he look like John Stamos and humming "TEXAS FIGHT" while bad mouthing Austin?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2023, 02:30:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 02, 2023, 02:19:43 PM

So, we're off on this crazy trip to the mideast next Friday

Is that Indiana Jones Camp?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 02, 2023, 02:38:32 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 02, 2023, 02:28:28 PM

Did he look like John Stamos and humming "TEXAS FIGHT" while bad mouthing Austin?

Nah, he looked a lot like a young Christopher Lloyd, but dressed head to toe in cordovan leather.

I've got a picture of him in our photo album from the trip, it was quite the sight.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 02, 2023, 02:50:57 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 02, 2023, 02:38:32 PM

Nah, he looked a lot like a young Christopher Lloyd, but dressed head to toe in cordovan leather.

I've got a picture of him in our photo album from the trip, it was quite the sight.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E_HMIN0nGl0

it wasn’t CORINTHIAN leather?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 02, 2023, 02:55:24 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 02, 2023, 02:50:57 PM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E_HMIN0nGl0

it wasn’t CORINTHIAN leather?

It could have been, I'm no expert on the origins of leather pants worn by Italians.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 02, 2023, 04:51:18 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 02, 2023, 02:38:32 PM

Nah, he looked a lot like a young Christopher Lloyd, but dressed head to toe in cordovan leather.

I've got a picture of him in our photo album from the trip, it was quite the sight.

In the train station in Rome, we saw a lady that was head-to-toe gold. I don't even remember the fabric, but it was garish. From head to toe, and all her jewelry, gold. Skin tanned to a nice golden hue as well. 

Granted, she could have been a tourist from the New Jersey shore. I didn't hear her speak. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 02, 2023, 05:23:00 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 02, 2023, 02:19:43 PM

So, we're off on this crazy trip to the mideast next Friday, and I'm still musing about which lenses to take with my Nikon.  I'm sorta settled on taking only my standard lens, an 18-55, which is nice and small and light.  I have an 18-400, which of course provides a lot of reach but is heavy.  My wife upgraded to an iPhone 14 and it takes incredible snapshots anyway.

Hopefully all goes to plan and we don't get taken by pirates or terrorists or Illinois Nazis.  I'm always a bit nervous about flights getting us there on time of course, but we have a two day window at least.  I'm pretty excited to see Petra, my wife claims Egypt is a something, and she's excited to see Jerusalem.  I imagine we'll be triple checking our stuff and worrying about what to pack.  It gets cool at night at these places, even Dubai.

Jerusalem is fantastic

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 02, 2023, 05:39:47 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 02, 2023, 04:51:18 PM

In the train station in Rome, we saw a lady that was head-to-toe gold. I don't even remember the fabric, but it was garish. From head to toe, and all her jewelry, gold. Skin tanned to a nice golden hue as well.

Granted, she could have been a tourist from the New Jersey shore. I didn't hear her speak.

Was it this chick?  If so, she ain't from Jersey.  Or Rome.


(https://i.imgur.com/yWYQizW.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 02, 2023, 06:55:01 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 02, 2023, 05:39:47 PM

Was it this chick?  If so, she ain't from Jersey.  Or Rome.


(https://i.imgur.com/yWYQizW.jpg)

No. Think her, plus 30 years of smoking 2 packs a day and face leathered by the sun. 

I.e. what Snooki is going to look like in 2045. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2023, 11:50:43 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 02, 2023, 02:55:24 PM

It could have been, I'm no expert on the origins of leather pants worn by Italians.

You're a damn liar!  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 04, 2023, 12:14:55 PM

20+ Fastest-Growing Cities In The US (2023) | Quicken Loans (https://www.quickenloans.com/learn/20-fastest-growing-cities-in-the-us)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 04, 2023, 01:09:16 PM

17. Rapid City, South Dakota

18. Round Rock, Texas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2023, 03:44:13 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/DIZUlbq.png)

Those were the days ... but those are high stall speeds for a plane with such a low NE speed, I think they are wrong.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 04, 2023, 05:11:08 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 04, 2023, 12:14:55 PM

20+ Fastest-Growing Cities In The US (2023) | Quicken Loans (https://www.quickenloans.com/learn/20-fastest-growing-cities-in-the-us)

Quick Summary:
1-10:  FLORIDA
the rest:  Texas and out west

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 04, 2023, 05:35:20 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 04, 2023, 01:09:16 PM

17. Rapid City, South Dakota

18. Round Rock, Texas

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 04, 2023, 06:08:52 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 04, 2023, 05:11:08 PM

Quick Summary:
1-10:  FLORIDA
the rest:  Texas and out west

summary

Red states

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on February 04, 2023, 06:30:59 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 04, 2023, 06:08:52 PM

summary

Red states

Florida was a lot better when it was a purple state 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 04, 2023, 06:56:18 PM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on February 04, 2023, 06:30:59 PM

Florida was a lot better when it was a purple state

Nah.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 04, 2023, 07:06:32 PM

Damn 35 out feels like spring after hovering in singler digits & low teens for a few days

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 04, 2023, 07:08:03 PM

agreed

first afternoon above freezing for a few weeks

spring is near!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 04, 2023, 07:23:31 PM

Well the lake still has mostly open water so it's keeping it slighty warmer. But damn when it freezes throw some witches on the fire because it's brutal

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 04, 2023, 11:30:58 PM

I don't even know which is red and which is blue.  Stupid identity politics.  

I'm for the death of all political color references.

#TeamClear

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 04, 2023, 11:39:51 PM

would you prefer elephants and jackasses? ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 04, 2023, 11:48:58 PM

No, I don't think that I would.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 08:26:19 AM

they are similar color

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2023, 08:37:05 AM

The Electoral College seems to keep us at two main parties.  Obviously, the European systems generate multiple parties, for better or worse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 08:45:44 AM

so, purple then

how about the animal mascot?

probably a bulldog

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 05, 2023, 09:05:07 AM

At least we finally shot the balloon down. Better late than never, I guess.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 05, 2023, 09:28:12 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 08:45:44 AM

so, purple then

how about the animal mascot?

probably a bulldog

frog is better

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 09:30:03 AM

in France

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 09:32:32 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 05, 2023, 09:05:07 AM

At least we finally shot the balloon down. Better late than never, I guess.

really late

after it crossed the entire continent
wouldn't be surprised if the payload was a huge basket of bat guano

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 05, 2023, 09:44:50 AM

I doubt "we" will ever know the payload, given how it was brought down.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 05, 2023, 09:45:35 AM

(https://y.yarn.co/6aad9b31-ea49-4912-863a-d3fde9302b20_text.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2023, 09:51:02 AM

I'd be interested in recovering any fragments that could indicate more about its purpose.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 05, 2023, 09:55:30 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 05, 2023, 09:51:02 AM

I'd be interested in recovering any fragments that could indicate more about its purpose. 

The US has unmanned aircraft that can get up to 60,000 feet. Why not fly a few of those up, pop it, and drag it down to the ground? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2023, 10:04:20 AM

I don't know what the thing weighed.  I'd think that would be a very delicate operation.

I'd guess we can recover enough pieces of the thing is piece together the kinds of sensors it had on board.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 10:09:40 AM

how difficult would it have been to have a navy vessel under it when it was dropped?

I understand you might not be able to just park an aisrcraft carrier under it, but if it doesn't sink like an anvil at splash down, it could be recovered

perhaps it's not that important because someone knows exactly what it was?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2023, 10:18:46 AM

The payload looked heavy to me, they claimed they were worried about it causing damage if shot down over the US.  I think it would be a lot better and easier to fish the fragments out of the water.  "We" should be able to ascertain whether it had only weather instruments or something more sinister.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 05, 2023, 10:31:22 AM

I thought there were 2 baloons wheres the other one

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 05, 2023, 10:31:32 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 05, 2023, 08:37:05 AM

The Electoral College seems to keep us at two main parties.  Obviously, the European systems generate multiple parties, for better or worse.

Yeah, our first past the post system forces voters to create coalitions of values, which is a weird thing. In other systems, no one has to compromise, save for the pols, and then you have other weird outcomes. 

Granted, that makes the most sense in a system like Israel, where party seats are vote-percentage based. If you tighten the geography for single seats, it becomes de facto first past the post much of the time. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 05, 2023, 10:32:17 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 05, 2023, 10:31:22 AM

I thought there were 2 baloons wheres the other one

It went off to become a star. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KorAPe9TV7E&ab_channel=RottenTomatoesClassicTrailers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 10:33:44 AM

I'd be shocked if it wasn't more sinister than weather equipment

I think we'd be pretty sure of that before shooting it down and claiming a "spy" balloon

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 10:34:46 AM

https://youtu.be/Fpu5a0Bl8eY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2023, 10:36:18 AM

Maybe so, but even a weather balloon in our air space is breaking the rules.  It would be a PR advantage to show it had other equipment on board.

They of course can glean a lot from satellites, visually.  Some kinds of radio transmissions don't make it that far up though.  I also think it would be useful to understand what they were monitoring specifically as an intel thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 05, 2023, 10:36:45 AM

This seems pretty unscientific on Chinas part

Did I dream the 2nd baloon

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 05, 2023, 10:41:16 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 05, 2023, 10:36:45 AM

This seems pretty unscientific on Chinas part

Did I dream the 2nd baloon

There was talk of a second one over Latin America.


Another Chinese 'surveillance balloon' is flying over Latin America, Pentagon says (nbcnews.com) (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/chinese-balloon-cause-civilian-injuries-deaths-rcna69052)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2023, 10:46:02 AM

Previously, a senior U.S. defense official said that the U.S. assessed that the balloon “has limited additive value from an intelligence collection perspective over and above what [China] can do through other means.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 10:46:11 AM

https://youtu.be/hiwgOWo7mDc

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 10:46:51 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 05, 2023, 10:46:02 AM

Previously, a senior U.S. defense official said that the U.S. assessed that the balloon “has limited additive value from an intelligence collection perspective over and above what [China] can do through other means.”

bat poop guano

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2023, 10:49:46 AM

Pentagon reveals details on how Chinese spy balloon was taken down with single shot | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pentagon-reveals-details-chinese-spy-balloon-taken-single-shot)

The defense official said that the U.S. military was able to gather intelligence information on the balloon as it flew across the country.

"I can't go into more detail, but we were able to study and scrutinize the balloon and its equipment, which has been valuable as Chinese officials (https://www.foxnews.com/category/world/world-regions/china) have themselves acknowledged," the defense official said. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 05, 2023, 10:59:07 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/1m3zQvM.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2023, 11:04:42 AM

So, the remnants are in shallow water in US limits and a Navy salvage ship is said to be en route.  We should be able to gather some of it, the article said it was scattered over 7 miles though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 11:14:25 AM

good training exercise if nuttin else

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 05, 2023, 11:49:55 AM

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-top-national-security-officials-refute-claim-chinese-spy-balloons-transited-us-under-last-admin

Unreal.  That idiot and his minions in the WH lie about virtually everything. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2023, 11:55:01 AM

Yes, Chinese Spy Balloons Flew Over The U.S. When President Trump Was In Office Too (forbes.com) (https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattnovak/2023/02/04/yes-chinese-spy-balloons-flew-over-the-us-when-president-trump-was-in-office-too/?sh=5bbe05603ea3)

Maybe.  I don't trust "the news" or the pols.  And of course these previous balloons could have been very simple affairs, nothing but a balloon, no payload.  Weather balloons can be used to determine winds aloft, they don't have any sensors.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 05, 2023, 11:58:20 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 05, 2023, 11:49:55 AM

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-top-national-security-officials-refute-claim-chinese-spy-balloons-transited-us-under-last-admin

Unreal.  That idiot and his minions in the WH lie about virtually everything.

In their heads, rent-free. Very sad, I just knew this would come up. My brother and I talked about it last night even. 

So very predictable. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 12:17:28 PM

I don't see the trouble with a weather balloon if that's all it is

We're all just trying to save the planet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 05, 2023, 12:19:03 PM

Yeah the Chinese have demonstrated tremendous concern over the environment and taken strong positive action to address it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 05, 2023, 12:19:10 PM

I think they were just pushing buttons to see how the US would respond.

And now they know.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 05, 2023, 12:20:50 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 05, 2023, 12:19:03 PM

Yeah the Chinese have demonstrated tremendous concern over the environment and taken strong positive action to address it.

Yep.

Jamaica has China to thank for much-needed infrastructure — but some locals say it has come at a price | CBC News (https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/china-power-belt-and-road-caribbean-jamaica-1.5374967#:~:text=The Alpart mine and refinery%2C one of Jamaica's,mining giant Jiuquan Iron and Steel Company (JISCO).)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 05, 2023, 12:21:01 PM

Yup it's pretty obvious to me that's what they were doing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 12:21:21 PM

what was their threat?

release a deadly virus on the world?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 05, 2023, 12:24:12 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 12:21:21 PM

what was their threat?

release a deadly virus on the world?

Pretty sure the most effective way to do that, is to infect their own citizens and then put them on planes to the US and other countries.

Releasing an airborne virus from a balloon 12 miles in the air would be... quite ineffective.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 12:26:25 PM

nah, not the bat shit balloon

their threat for the US shooting down the bat shit show

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 12:27:55 PM

https://twitter.com/wxbrad/status/1621959026031345666?s=20&t=O4VIiFu3jST2YcnzHuq8AA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 05, 2023, 12:51:19 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 05, 2023, 12:19:10 PM

I think they were just pushing buttons to see how the US would respond.

And now they know.

yep we will sit there like idiots allow it to fly over the length of the US and then splash it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 05, 2023, 01:28:55 PM

It was easy to down it.  Do you really think they were able to gain any insight beyond what they already get from spy satellites and other means?

The CCP is a problem and an enemy, but some funky spy balloon is of almost zero concern compared to the actual methods and areas where they are waging direct war against the US.  If you want to have a problem with the current administration over something CCP-related, start there, not here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 05, 2023, 01:35:23 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 05, 2023, 01:28:55 PM

It was easy to down it.  Do you really think they were able to gain any insight beyond what they already get from spy satellites and other means?

The CCP is a problem and an enemy, but some funky spy balloon is of almost zero concern compared to the actual methods and areas where they are waging direct war against the US.  If you want to have a problem with the current administration over something CCP-related, start there, not here.

Thats great but reports are now coming out that their balloons have flown over the US undetected recently

so Ill stay here thank you

Its apparent CCP is probing us to see just what we will detect

we should have downed that thing as soon as we detected it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 01:47:18 PM

from what I know, we've detected tons of their shit on the internet/dark web and other sources of information

most think we're not doing nearly enough about it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 05, 2023, 01:56:40 PM

In the late 1990's, U of I UC started a massive campaign to atract Chinese Graduate students to the campus. The thought was that the out of country tuition would be a boon for the school.

In the early 2000's - 2003 I think, the school was accepting more Chinese into its grad school then it accepted kids from its own state (IL). 

Think about this for a minute. And then think about this. They ain't here to study art history either.

(https://i.imgur.com/qIOIUry.png)

There are around 3 Million total grad students in the USA right now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 05, 2023, 02:16:19 PM

American politics is usually a game of who can act more stupid in public. If I were from another country I'd float balloons over us all the time just to see what the politicians tweet. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 05, 2023, 02:20:44 PM

^^^

Post of the day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 03:21:34 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/329018202_886651672540954_2732796097112061924_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=a26aad&_nc_ohc=SIRMQPqACSEAX95zznE&_nc_oc=AQk_bdM7vFAKtPRBwP3bpUZ-wIM1VvqYRpmpTlH2_duTdiVnLXJw0Yo0XkwheMzoG-M&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfA0WEYFs3DYwpX6b7t4PjFdmXtCdVbVKbljw4EUK_7H1A&oe=63E4811A)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 05, 2023, 03:22:52 PM

exactly

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 05, 2023, 04:15:54 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 05, 2023, 01:35:23 PM

Thats great but reports are now coming out that their balloons have flown over the US undetected recently

so Ill stay here thank you

Its apparent CCP is probing us to see just what we will detect

we should have downed that thing as soon as we detected it

Undetected?  Then how do we know about it?  And if we knew about it, and clearly could do something about it (because we just did do something about it), but chose not to do anything about it,  then what precisely do you think is the threat?

Think critically now, not just bullshit identity politicking.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2023, 04:19:06 PM

I would lean to not trusting some report that Chinese balloons had traversed the US "undetected".

It was shot down over US territory.  Hitting the water could make the pieces more intact than hitting land.

I sense most of the disgust over how this was handled is political.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 05, 2023, 04:20:47 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 05, 2023, 04:19:06 PM

I would lean to not trusting some report that Chinese balloons had traversed the US "undetected".

It was shot down over US territory.  Hitting the water could make the pieces more intact than hitting land.

I sense most of the disgust over how this was handled is political.

Yup.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 05, 2023, 05:58:53 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 05, 2023, 01:35:23 PM

Thats great but reports are now coming out that their balloons have flown over the US undetected recently

so Ill stay here thank you

Its apparent CCP is probing us to see just what we will detect

we should have downed that thing as soon as we detected it

If we did that, China would have gained knowledge of something important.  Better for them not to know the exact moment we detected it.  
Right? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 05, 2023, 06:07:54 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 05, 2023, 05:58:53 PM

If we did that, China would have gained knowledge of something important.  Better for them not to know the exact moment we detected it. 
Right?

Thats a fair question and has merit

I think it all comes down to trust in our President to do whats right for the US

I have no trust

but hey thats just me

Brandon may be the greatest President of all time and I just play identity politics

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 06:15:58 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 05, 2023, 05:58:53 PM

If we did that, China would have gained knowledge of something important.  Better for them not to know the exact moment we detected it. 
Right?

wrong, how do they know when we detected it, unless it was during launch
just knock it out when it gets within a couple miles of US soil.
first over Alaska???

let them know we're always on the alert, unless we were allowing it to find out something

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 05, 2023, 06:20:07 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 06:15:58 PM

wrong, how do they know when we detected it, unless it was during launch
just knock it out when it gets within a couple miles of US soil.
first over Alaska???

let them know we're always on the alert, unless we were allowing it to find out something

Thats my gut reaction as well

Showing security weakness to China is never a good idea

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 06:24:05 PM

I'm guessing we knew all about this balloon long before it got over US soil, but allowed it to see what the chinese intentions were.

Biden may or may not be competent, but the US military in Alaska is probably very alert with the Chinese, North Korea,  and the Russkies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 05, 2023, 06:30:13 PM

Checkers vs chess, guys.
.
We knock it down before it enters our airspace, they cross it off the list and go to their next idea.
We wait and track it and knock it down when we feel like it, they spend more time on this waste-of-time idea.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 05, 2023, 06:34:50 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 05, 2023, 06:30:13 PM

Checkers vs chess, guys.
.
We knock it down before it enters our airspace, they cross it off the list and go to their next idea.
We wait and track it and knock it down when we feel like it, they spend more time on this waste-of-time idea.

again your point of view has merit

I just dont trust that The potted plant has that much snap or doesnt have another agenda

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 07:57:35 PM

I'm guessing the military waited on the OK from the potted plant to knock it out

that's what took so long

duh!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 08:05:49 PM

https://usafacts.org/articles/which-states-are-the-most-educated/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Paid&utm_campaign=General&utm_content=StatesMostEducated_Desktop_News (https://usafacts.org/articles/which-states-are-the-most-educated/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Paid&utm_campaign=General&utm_content=StatesMostEducated_Desktop_News)

In 2021, 35% of Americans 25 and older had a Bachelor's degrees or higher.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 05, 2023, 09:05:05 PM

jfc you guys and your potted plant rhetoric. 

It is precisely as stupid as the orange man rhetoric from the haters of the previous administration. 

You are exactly who you proclaim yourselves not to be.

So mind-numbingly dull and stupid, this approach.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 05, 2023, 09:10:27 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 05, 2023, 09:05:05 PM

jfc you guys and your potted plant rhetoric.

It is precisely as stupid as the orange man rhetoric from the haters of the previous administration.

You are exactly who you proclaim yourselves not to be.

So mind-numbingly dull and stupid, this approach.

The "fun" of following modern politics for most is that it's a sort of silly infotainment. 

It's mostly just for the joy of yelling about things you can't control at others who root for whoever is doing that (or grousing with like-minded folks). And it's really crystalized there, with sort of unending culture war burffle. Much easier to yell and feel righteous than talk like grownups about real interactions between folks and their government. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 09:11:15 PM

I can refer to potted plant and/or Orange man in good clean fun

w/o strong feelings - in jest

now Ralphie up in Boulder???  not so much, she really is a cow!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 05, 2023, 09:31:38 PM

These two prior posts in succession have hit on it, exactly.

People now root for their political "team" in the same way we've traditionally rooted for sports teams.  There's no place for discourse, it's just a mindless affiliation to some political color.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 05, 2023, 09:43:30 PM

they will have to pry my gas stove from my cold dead hands

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 09:45:51 PM

stubborn old Texan

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 05, 2023, 09:51:04 PM

color me burnt orange

I guess I practice identity sports

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 05, 2023, 10:07:54 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 05, 2023, 09:31:38 PM

These two prior posts in succession have hit on it, exactly.

People now root for their political "team" in the same way we've traditionally rooted for sports teams.  There's no place for discourse, it's just a mindless affiliation to some political color. 

Unfortunately there is a great deal of truth to this.

it would be nice if there was discourse without mention of an individual person or specific political party.

But that is no longer possible- because if you want to express your opinion about an issue( pick one- doesn’t matter was it is), you are then labeled as being a member of that team. Even if your not- and your opinion on various issues aligns with both “ teams” depending on the issue- or in many cases- nether team.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 05, 2023, 10:41:14 PM

I think most folks here dont consider their view mindless

we all have a view of whats wrong and whats right

I cant help it if more folks of a particular color happen to agree with me

Im sorry if I hurt feels but what we have in the WH right now is a potted plant

There are a lot of folks including my cat that could do a better job

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 05, 2023, 10:58:08 PM

Your cat would probably do a better job than you would, too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 05, 2023, 11:41:43 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 05, 2023, 10:58:08 PM

Your cat would probably do a better job than you would, too.

youre right about that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 05, 2023, 11:49:15 PM

Ladies and Gentlemen The President of the United States


(https://i.imgur.com/NtebeQ5.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 06, 2023, 12:05:56 AM

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqJPoXLX4AAqKG9.jpg:large)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2023, 05:49:35 AM

Anything that large would show up on military radars in Alaska, and Montana.  We don't have some super secret unknown radar that would have been revealed.

The only issue could be the speed discriminator, but that is used for low altitude detection.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2023, 06:29:05 AM

What we know about Chinese balloon sightings during Trump presidency | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/international/3844841-what-we-know-about-chinese-balloon-sightings-during-trump-presidency/)

Not much.  Was this thing sending telemetry back to China (via sat)???

China has claimed the balloon downed over the weekend is a weather balloon that was blown unwillingly into American airspace — a claim the U.S. says is refuted by the recovered aircraft wreckage.
“This was a PRC surveillance balloon. This surveillance balloon purposefully traversed the United States and Canada.  And we are confident it was seeking to monitor sensitive military sites,” a top defense official said Sunday.
“We have learned technical things about this balloon and its surveillance capabilities.  And I suspect if we are successful in recovering aspects of the debris, we will learn even more,” the official added.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2023, 06:49:40 AM

I don't think this graphic shows the overall size increase.
(https://i.imgur.com/gPoItcN.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2023, 06:52:11 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/NP4DLBo.png)

27 years apart.  Pickups are extremely rare in Europe, worker types use vans.

(https://i.imgur.com/klWmFwD.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 06, 2023, 08:04:27 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 06, 2023, 06:49:40 AM

I don't think this graphic shows the overall size increase.
(https://i.imgur.com/gPoItcN.png)

pussification of america

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2023, 09:06:28 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 06, 2023, 06:29:05 AM

What we know about Chinese balloon sightings during Trump presidency | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/international/3844841-what-we-know-about-chinese-balloon-sightings-during-trump-presidency/)

Not much.  Was this thing sending telemetry back to China (via sat)???

China has claimed the balloon downed over the weekend is a weather balloon that was blown unwillingly into American airspace — a claim the U.S. says is refuted by the recovered aircraft wreckage.
“This was a PRC surveillance balloon. This surveillance balloon purposefully traversed the United States and Canada.  And we are confident it was seeking to monitor sensitive military sites,” a top defense official said Sunday.
“We have learned technical things about this balloon and its surveillance capabilities.  And I suspect if we are successful in recovering aspects of the debris, we will learn even more,” the official added.

This is not OK.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2023, 09:25:06 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 05, 2023, 06:30:13 PM

Checkers vs chess, guys.
.
We knock it down before it enters our airspace, they cross it off the list and go to their next idea.
We wait and track it and knock it down when we feel like it, they spend more time on this waste-of-time idea.

Yeah, they're playing chess and we're playing tidily winks.

They got all of the data they wanted.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on February 06, 2023, 09:27:34 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 05, 2023, 09:05:05 PM

jfc you guys and your potted plant rhetoric.

It is precisely as stupid as the orange man rhetoric from the haters of the previous administration.

You are exactly who you proclaim yourselves not to be.

So mind-numbingly dull and stupid, this approach.

I couldn't agree more.  And although I do not care for JB at all, I recognize that he won the election, and some people will be happy with his performance, and some won't.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on February 06, 2023, 09:30:15 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 06, 2023, 08:04:27 AM

pussification of america

I've seen that graphic many times in the last few days, but what it doesn't tell you is that you can still buy a single cab 8' bed, or an extended cab 8' bed or a crew cab 6' bed. Most people don't because they like the short-short bed with 4 doors.  I've owned many of them and I find the 4 door 5.5' bed the best all around.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 06, 2023, 09:42:38 AM

I have a double cab with a small back seat.  It's good for kids or golf clubs.
Adults can squeeze in if needed.

the bed is a bit longer, not sure of the length but it works well for me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2023, 10:26:48 AM

A lot of trucks today are SUVs with an open bed, which is "OK" I think if it meets your needs.  We routinely have work trucks parked outside and they often are 2500s with a crew cab, and the bed is often packed with gear.  Maybe they tow stuff at times.

My wife says they are not popular in Europe because no one could leave anything open to the public without it being stolen.  So, they use vans.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on February 06, 2023, 03:05:26 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 06, 2023, 10:26:48 AM

A lot of trucks today are SUVs with an open bed, which is "OK" I think if it meets your needs.  We routinely have work trucks parked outside and they often are 2500s with a crew cab, and the bed is often packed with gear.  Maybe they tow stuff at times.

My wife says they are not popular in Europe because no one could leave anything open to the public without it being stolen.  So, they use vans.

A truck with a full frame is definitely not the same as an SUV.  There are SUV's built on truck frames, but most are not.  

People are buying what suits them, why try sticking a label to it?  
BTW I owned a white F-150 almost identical to the picture up above.  2012 model with the 3.5 EcoBoost, 4x4 crew cab with the 6.5' bed.  Truck was a beast.  Sold it at 90k miles, lots of mechanical issues.  But I liked the truck overall.  Now I drive a Ram and a Chevy, both crew cabs with 5.5' bed.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2023, 03:27:23 PM

I should say some SUVs are like trucks with an enclosed bed.  I know what folks call an SUV now includes a lot of near minivan types.

My wife has given notice she wants a mini-SUV "soon" because of egress issues.  I said "Maybe in five years" hopefully, and she said "Sooner".

I'm not from Oklahoma though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 06, 2023, 03:38:35 PM

I've never been a pickup guy and if any manufacturers made an SUV that could tow 11K pounds, that's what I'd own.  But nobody does, so a pickup I have.  2015 F150 crew cab 4x4 with the 3.5 twin turbo and a 5.5' bed.

And I have to say I absolutely love this truck.  Ford's crew cab for those model years was larger than the GM or Ram offerings at the time, and that's what really sold me, since it basically has  to serve as my daily driver plus our family vehicle.  It's been a fantastic vehicle for the 4.5 years we've had it, and I have no doubt it'll remain my primary vehicle for many years to come.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2023, 04:00:03 PM

This one is close, but no cigar ...

2022 Jeep Grand Wagoneer | Cars.com photo by Christian Lantry

Jeep’s new Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer full-size SUVs made their debut for 2022 and weigh in at the top of the SUV tow ratings. The Wagoneer has a pickup-like 10,000-pound maximum rating with the standard 392-horsepower, 5.7-liter V-8 and two- or four-wheel-drive, along with the Heavy-Duty Trailer-Tow Package that includes HD engine cooling, trailer brake control and a hitch lineup assist and hitch zoom view. The fancier and heavier Grand Wagoneer with its 471-hp, 6.4-liter V-8 is rated to tow 9,850 pounds. Jeep already has unveiled long-wheelbase L versions of the Wagoneers (https://www.cars.com/articles/2023-jeep-wagoneer-grand-wagoneer-go-bigger-with-new-l-versions-448736/) for 2023 with new twin-turbocharged inline-six-cylinder engines (420 or 510 hp) and says these longer models also will tow up to 10,000 pounds when properly equipped.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 06, 2023, 05:25:49 PM

Yup, 10K is better than the current crop of Suburbans and Expeditions, but still not enough. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2023, 05:30:21 PM

With the towing wars with pickups, you'd think someone would put an SUV "out there" for bragging rights.  Maybe something about it is technically difficult?

Maybe you need the 2500 frame underneath?  But you have a 150.

I am amazed how well trucks drive these days.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 06, 2023, 05:34:38 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 06, 2023, 05:30:21 PM

With the towing wars with pickups, you'd think someone would put an SUV "out there" for bragging rights.  Maybe something about it is technically difficult?

Maybe you need the 2500 frame underneath?  But you have a 150.

I am amazed how well trucks drive these days. 

I just don't think there's much of a market for it. Up until about 2005/2006, Ford had an Expedition that was considered a 3/4 ton and had a towing capacity of 12K, and same for GM with a Suburban.  But those went away, and nothing ever came in to fill the gap.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 06, 2023, 05:36:34 PM

And yeah, the towing capacities of the 1/2 ton 150/1500 trucks is considerably higher than they were on their counterparts from 15-20 years ago.  Frames are stronger, drive trains and riding gear are beefier.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2023, 05:41:10 PM

This one looks pretty spiffy to me:

(https://i.imgur.com/KbAYVMW.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 06, 2023, 05:55:43 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 06, 2023, 05:41:10 PM

This one looks pretty spiffy to me:

(https://i.imgur.com/KbAYVMW.png)

I'll admit, I've always been a Ford guy for some reason, but that looks pretty damn slick. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 06, 2023, 06:40:20 PM

I still much prefer the largest set of full-sized SUVs.  Doesn't have to be Suburban-long, but the Tahoe and Yukon are pretty nice.  That said, if they'd make a 3/4 ton high capacity towing version of the Suburban or Yukon XL, that's what I'd be driving.

(https://i.imgur.com/sS646C3.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 06, 2023, 07:08:33 PM

Well its that time of year

I just installed the 2022 Turbo Tax program

I can hardly contain myself with happiness

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 06, 2023, 08:30:05 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 06, 2023, 07:08:33 PM

Well its that time of year

I just installed the 2022 Turbo Tax program

I can hardly contain myself with happiness

I think somewhere on the IRS site is a free service they have to offer. 

Setting aside the actual questions of tax announces, the tax prep racket is quite a thing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 06, 2023, 08:38:58 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 06, 2023, 08:30:05 PM

I think somewhere on the IRS site is a free service they have to offer.

Setting aside the actual questions of tax announces, the tax prep racket is quite a thing.

just remember you get what you pay for .... sometimes less

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 07, 2023, 07:00:57 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 06, 2023, 08:38:58 PM

just remember you get what you pay for .... sometimes less

What, you don't trust the IRS to figure your taxes?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 07, 2023, 07:04:40 AM

It's great to know the CCP apologized to... not the USA.

Costa Rica says China apologized for intel operation over its territory | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/world/costa-rica-china-apologized-intel-operation-over-territory)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 07, 2023, 07:59:46 AM

advertising here in Iowa that if you make less than $60,000/year, there's a free service to file your taxes

there actually could be a decent return on investment with this program

but, I doubt it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 07, 2023, 08:08:12 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/kD7sgna.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 07, 2023, 08:45:26 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 06, 2023, 05:41:10 PM

This one looks pretty spiffy to me:

(https://i.imgur.com/KbAYVMW.png)

Check back in 10 yrs when spiffy turns to shitty might not even take that long

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 07, 2023, 08:48:28 AM

CANADA (WFLA (https://www.wfla.com/news/national/18-year-old-wins-48m-on-first-ever-lottery-ticket/)) – An 18-year-old woman has made history by winning $48 million after she purchased a lottery (https://fox8.com/tag/lottery/) ticket for the first time.
Juliette Lamour, 18, of Ontario, Canada (https://fox8.com/tag/canada-news/), was announced as the winner by the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation (OLGC) on Friday, making her the country’s youngest person to win a lottery prize of this amount.

Lamour purchased the winning ticket after her grandfather suggested she buy one for her 18th birthday. The 18-year-old said she forgot about the ticket until her coworkers told her that someone from her hometown had won the drawing on Jan. 7.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 07, 2023, 08:58:55 AM

Pentagon ‘did not detect’ previous Chinese spy balloons: US general | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3846363-pentagon-did-not-detect-previous-chinese-spy-balloons-us-general/)

This story gets more weird by the day ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 07, 2023, 09:09:34 AM

That's how distracted this country has become too many glued to the idiot box or social media screaming at clouds to notice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 07, 2023, 09:10:49 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 07, 2023, 08:58:55 AM

Pentagon ‘did not detect’ previous Chinese spy balloons: US general | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3846363-pentagon-did-not-detect-previous-chinese-spy-balloons-us-general/)

This story gets more weird by the day ...

DC is so full of shit. Listen to the press briefing from yesterday, if you can make it all the way through without pulling your ears off.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 07, 2023, 09:13:40 AM

Subway Will Soon Slice All Its Own Deli Meat (foodandwine.com) (https://www.foodandwine.com/subway-will-soon-slice-all-its-own-deli-meat-7106168?utm_campaign=foodandwine&utm_content=link&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=63e15a1ddb0e480001d50e4f&fbclid=IwAR3PSIKyB5jsSs2w30h4pq-dhpSS3Da8eXnP2NCfvvO01bX22IO8SbfuhbE)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 07, 2023, 09:41:25 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 07, 2023, 09:13:40 AM

Subway Will Soon Slice All Its Own Deli Meat (foodandwine.com) (https://www.foodandwine.com/subway-will-soon-slice-all-its-own-deli-meat-7106168?utm_campaign=foodandwine&utm_content=link&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=63e15a1ddb0e480001d50e4f&fbclid=IwAR3PSIKyB5jsSs2w30h4pq-dhpSS3Da8eXnP2NCfvvO01bX22IO8SbfuhbE)

"[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.95)]Unlike some of its competitors, Subway’s restaurants have never sliced any of its sandwich meats on-site, instead slicing them in one central facility and shipping the meats to each location."

[/color]Not true... When I was a sandwich artist back around 1993ish, the Subway I worked at sliced its meat on-site. Being only 15 at the time, I was not allowed to use the slicer, but it was definitely used to slice meat as prep each morning. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 07, 2023, 12:09:26 PM

We use to have wood,metal and auto shop also
(https://i.imgur.com/PL5YWuH.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on February 07, 2023, 12:50:20 PM

Still do at my old mostly white suburban high school.  My old woods teacher from the early 90s just passed away.  I was assured they are still teaching these courses.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on February 07, 2023, 01:21:26 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 07, 2023, 08:58:55 AM

Pentagon ‘did not detect’ previous Chinese spy balloons: US general | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3846363-pentagon-did-not-detect-previous-chinese-spy-balloons-us-general/)

This story gets more weird by the day ...

This whole story is a great example of how an administration feeds the MSM BS who then report it without any critical evaluation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 07, 2023, 01:58:26 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on February 07, 2023, 12:50:20 PM

Still do at my old mostly white suburban high school.  My old woods teacher from the early 90s just passed away.  I was assured they are still teaching these courses.

We used wood & metal lathes,belt sanders & saws in 8-9 grades. Pretty sure none of that is offered anymore at my old schools - liability I'm sure. Plus society sans the building trades has moved away from industrial based positions. Have to go to a seperate trade school for those

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 07, 2023, 02:07:12 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 07, 2023, 01:58:26 PM

We used wood & metal lathes,belt sanders & saws in 8-9 grades. Pretty sure none of that is offered anymore at my old schools - liability I'm sure. Plus society sans the building trades has moved away from industrial based positions. Have to go to a seperate trade school for those

I still have the gun rack (wooden) I made in shop in Jr High

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on February 07, 2023, 02:10:26 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 07, 2023, 01:58:26 PM

We used wood & metal lathes,belt sanders & saws in 8-9 grades. Pretty sure none of that is offered anymore at my old schools - liability I'm sure. Plus society sans the building trades has moved away from industrial based positions. Have to go to a seperate trade school for those

Our wood shop teacher used to love telling us about the student that got a screw driver through his forehead because he tried to use it on a wood lathe like a chisel.  Or the other student that had his arm torn off when his long shirt sleeve got caught and wrapped up on the lathe.  In hindsight it was likely all shop class legends.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on February 07, 2023, 02:10:41 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 06, 2023, 08:38:58 PM

just remember you get what you pay for .... sometimes less

I could have sworn you were a CPA or some kind of big shot financial officer?  I figured TT was too unsophisticated for you...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 07, 2023, 02:18:19 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on February 07, 2023, 02:10:26 PM

Our wood shop teacher used to love telling us about the student that got a screw driver through his forehead because he tried to use it on a wood lathe like a chisel.  Or the other student that had his arm torn off when his long shirt sleeve got caught and wrapped up on the lathe.  In hindsight it was likely all shop class legends.

That's why I paid particular attention to my three-fingered shop teacher. 

He knew what not to do. From experience!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 07, 2023, 02:23:55 PM

This is an e-mail sent to Clarence Page of the Chicago Tribune after an article he published concerning a name change for the Washington Redskins.

Dear Mr. Page: I agree with our Native American population. I am highly jilted by the racially charged name of the Washington Redskins. One might argue that to name a professional football team after Native Americans would exalt them as fine warriors, but nay, nay, we must be careful not to offend, and in the spirit of political correctness and courtesy, we must move forward.
Let's ditch the Kansas City Chiefs, the Atlanta Braves and the Cleveland Indians. If your shorts are in a wad because of the reference the name Redskins makes to skin color, then we need to get rid of the Cleveland Browns. 

The Carolina Panthers obviously were named to keep the memory of militant Blacks from the 60's alive. Gone. It's offensive to us white folk. 

The New York Yankees offend the Southern population. Do you see a team named for the Confederacy? No! There is no room for any reference to that tragic war that cost this country so many young men's lives.
I am also offended by the blatant references to the Catholic religion among our sports team names. Totally inappropriate to have the New Orleans Saints, the Los Angeles Angels or the San Diego Padres. 

Then there are the team names that glorify criminals who raped and pillaged. We are talking about the horrible Oakland Raiders, the Minnesota Vikings, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the Pittsburgh Pirates! 

Now, let us address those teams that clearly send the wrong message to our children. The San Diego Chargers promote irresponsible fighting or even spending habits. Wrong message to our children. 

The New York Giants and the San Francisco Giants promote obesity, a growing childhood epidemic. Wrong message to our children.
The Cincinnati Reds promotes downers/barbiturates. Wrong message to our children. 

The Milwaukee Brewers. Well that goes without saying. Wrong message to our children. 

So, there you go. We need to support any legislation that comes out to rectify this travesty, because the government will likely become involved with this issue, as they should. Just the kind of thing the do-nothing Congress loves. 

As a die-hard Oregon State fan, my wife and I, with all of this in
mind, suggest it might also make some sense to change the name of the Oregon State women's athletic teams to something other than the Beavers (especially when they play Southern California. Do we really want the Trojans sticking it to the Beavers???)

I always love your articles and I generally agree with them. As for
the Redskins name I would suggest they change the name to the
Foreskins, to better represent their community, paying tribute to the dick heads in Washington DC

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 07, 2023, 02:30:02 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 07, 2023, 07:00:57 AM

What, you don't trust the IRS to figure your taxes?

They already do. And could just send a bill or check at the end of the year.

But there are corporate interests to serve. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 07, 2023, 02:44:55 PM

Quote from: Gigem on February 07, 2023, 02:10:41 PM

I could have sworn you were a CPA or some kind of big shot financial officer?  I figured TT was too unsophisticated for you...

I am a CPA but dont consider myself a Tax expert

in addition with TT I dont have to chase down forms and it will auto connect to my stock broker to download investment info

It also does free filing

for $60 its a bargin

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 07, 2023, 02:51:33 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 07, 2023, 01:58:26 PM

We used wood & metal lathes,belt sanders & saws in 8-9 grades. Pretty sure none of that is offered anymore at my old schools - liability I'm sure. Plus society sans the building trades has moved away from industrial based positions. Have to go to a seperate trade school for those

Too many people are dismissing the value of a trade and instead insisting that HS kids all go to college. I know our local school did this for a time and did away with shop class along with a few others. 

But as Judge Smails said in Caddyshack "The world needs ditch diggers too." 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 07, 2023, 02:53:05 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 07, 2023, 02:30:02 PM

They already do. And could just send a bill or check at the end of the year.

But there are corporate interests to serve.

Nah. They might do 1 in 1000, if that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 07, 2023, 02:53:53 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 07, 2023, 02:51:33 PM

Too many people are dismissing the value of a trade and instead insisting that HS kids all go to college. I know our local school did this for a time and did away with shop class along with a few others.

But as Judge Smails said in Caddyshack "The world needs ditch diggers too."

Ditch diggers make a TON of money. A whole lot more than Fine Arts majors do, with zero debt.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 07, 2023, 03:42:59 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 07, 2023, 02:53:05 PM

Nah. They might do 1 in 1000, if that.

1 in 1000 is less than the audit rate. Which likely is more than just running it through TT-style software. (Unless I’m effing up fractions of percentages, which my scrambled brain might be)

I remain skeptical of the tax prep lobby, but to each his own.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 07, 2023, 03:50:48 PM

I will always prefer to do them on my own (with a hired CPA). Nobody looks out for my interests better than me, and him. Been with him for the entire time I've been in business.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 07, 2023, 04:33:36 PM

One can be nonplussed of course, but not plussed.

I'm astounded at this and don't know how to respond.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2023, 10:43:56 AM

I didn't try to read the Chinese version (why is that there?).


(https://i.imgur.com/9NNZ3O1.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2023, 04:01:46 PM

Got an email about this deal today. I don't think so...

Live Aboard a Luxury Residential Ship & Travel the World (storylines.com) (https://www.storylines.com/?hsLang=en)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 08, 2023, 05:01:32 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on February 07, 2023, 02:10:26 PM

Our wood shop teacher used to love telling us about the student that got a screw driver through his forehead because he tried to use it on a wood lathe like a chisel.  Or the other student that had his arm torn off when his long shirt sleeve got caught and wrapped up on the lathe.  In hindsight it was likely all shop class legends.

They actually showed film of some guy getting eye surgery because he didn' wear safety goggles. And he had to be conscious and move his eye around for the surgeon picking out debris/metal fragments. I aways wear them even when weedwacking,so the scare tactic worked

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 08, 2023, 05:07:29 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 07, 2023, 02:51:33 PM

But as Judge Smails said in Caddyshack "The world needs ditch diggers too."

Take the shovels and crack corporate a-holes in the head. Then go see local/state/federal reps and do the same thing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 08, 2023, 05:10:13 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 07, 2023, 02:53:53 PM

Ditch diggers back hoe excavators make a TON of money. A whole lot more than Fine Arts majors do, with zero debt.

FIFY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2023, 05:16:27 PM

Better off using a gradall over a backhoe to dig ditches.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 08, 2023, 05:31:14 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2023, 10:43:56 AM

I didn't try to read the Chinese version (why is that there?).


(https://i.imgur.com/9NNZ3O1.png)

Blank guess would be part of trying to get Chinese restaurants run by immigrants to pay what they’re supposed to in taxes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2023, 05:33:37 PM

Heh.

Probably way more Greeks running restaurants then Chinese.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 08, 2023, 11:18:35 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2023, 05:33:37 PM

Heh.

Probably way more Greeks running restaurants then Chinese.

Possibly. 

I read an article about the Chinese restaurant thing that was fascinating. Basically, if you're in every small town in the south, there's a crappy little Chinese place run by actual Chinese folks. People immigrated over, put to use the skills they had and worked their asses off (7 days a week, full shift, push labor laws with kids in the kitchen) so they could get the kids into better careers. (Some of this is borrowed from the story of a Laotian doughnut empire in Southern California)

And then the kids went off, got their art history or chemistry degrees, got white collar jobs and didn't want to do 80 hour weeks in the kitchen. Parents got older, had enough to live on, swaths of the places closed down because no one wanted to take them over. In a way, a nice example of the American Dream.

In any case, I need to find good Greek food. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 09, 2023, 07:12:46 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 08, 2023, 11:18:35 PM

Possibly.

I read an article about the Chinese restaurant thing that was fascinating. Basically, if you're in every small town in the south, there's a crappy little Chinese place run by actual Chinese folks. People immigrated over, put to use the skills they had and worked their asses off (7 days a week, full shift, push labor laws with kids in the kitchen) so they could get the kids into better careers. (Some of this is borrowed from the story of a Laotian doughnut empire in Southern California)

And then the kids went off, got their art history or chemistry degrees, got white collar jobs and didn't want to do 80 hour weeks in the kitchen. Parents got older, had enough to live on, swaths of the places closed down because no one wanted to take them over. In a way, a nice example of the American Dream.

In any case, I need to find good Greek food.

I've heard that there are places in Greece that serve good Greek food. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 09, 2023, 08:26:55 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2023, 10:43:56 AM

I didn't try to read the Chinese version (why is that there?).

never been to chinatown?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 09, 2023, 08:28:29 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2023, 05:16:27 PM

Better off using a gradall over a backhoe to dig ditches.

hoes for water and sewer line install

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2023, 08:40:58 AM

Every place around us has "Mexicans" cooking in the kitchen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 09, 2023, 08:47:33 AM

Definitely regional. Very few Greeks around here but plenty of Asian representation, especially Chinese, Vietnamese, and Korean.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2023, 09:19:49 AM

We have some good Greek places near us, a couple are local chains that are pretty solid and one is closed now for a major expansion, should be open later this year I hope.

What we don't have is a real French bistro.  We have two Persian restaurants within a mile of us, but no French.  Vietnamese, Korean, Japanese, a plethora of noodle shops have caught on, Mexican of course, Chinese of course, South American (which is a nice place), two great Indian places, Italian, no German that I know of ... or French.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 09, 2023, 09:29:18 AM

There are several French bistros downtown.  Not much out in the suburbs.  We do have a lot of Cajun places, some of which also make some classic traditional French dishes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 09, 2023, 09:32:09 AM

had Jambalaya last night at Buzzard Billys in Lincoln

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2023, 10:12:30 AM

SpaceX prepares to test fire all 33 Starship engines at once (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/08/spacex-prepares-test-fire-all-starship-engines-at-once.html)

(https://i.imgur.com/OSJkAxe.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 09, 2023, 11:20:59 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 09, 2023, 09:32:09 AM

had Jambalaya last night at Buzzard Billys in Lincoln

Jambalaya, and a crawfish pie and a file gumbo
'Cause tonight I'm gonna see my machez amio
Pick guitar, fill fruit jar and be gay-oh
Son of a gun, we'll have big fun on the bayou

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 09, 2023, 11:26:50 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 09, 2023, 09:29:18 AM

There are several French bistros downtown.  Not much out in the suburbs.  We do have a lot of Cajun places, some of which also make some classic traditional French dishes.

There is an overpriced Cajun place near my apartment that I keep meaning to check out, but don’t really have high hopes for. There’s also a well regarded Cajun place that for some reason does not have jambalaya.

I deeply love Cajun food and this reality upsets me greatly. I think there might be some strip mall hole on the walls somewhere on the outskirts of town, but I don’t know that I have put together the effort to make the trip

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 09, 2023, 01:35:01 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 09, 2023, 09:32:09 AM

had Jambalaya last night at Buzzard Billys in Lincoln

Had a schooner or three I'm hoping

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 09, 2023, 01:38:39 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 09, 2023, 10:12:30 AM

SpaceX prepares to test fire all 33 Starship engines at once (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/08/spacex-prepares-test-fire-all-starship-engines-at-once.html)

Al Gore would have an aneurism if he saw that.....want his web address?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 10, 2023, 09:09:19 AM

Good Night Oppy (2022) (imdb.com) (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14179942/mediaviewer/rm4066771201/?ref_=tt_ov_i)

Watched this on Amazon last night, thought it quite good.  "We" can do neat things when we're not blowing each other up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 10, 2023, 10:23:36 AM

Big day for us today, first a 2 hour flight to Toronto and then a 12.5 hour flight to Dubai.  They are  9 hours ahead of us.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 10, 2023, 10:54:31 AM

Good luck, have fun!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 10, 2023, 10:56:16 AM

Have a great time. And don't forget the machine gun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 10, 2023, 10:56:50 AM

This is not too good. Saw it coming, unfortunately.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/moldovas-pro-western-government-collapses-as-fallout-from-ukraine-war-worsens-7eb2e24f?st=yrynjo06ztqrt0f&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 10, 2023, 11:07:20 AM

OK, it's a remake of the 2003 movie Old School, except set in Afghansitan where a bunch of 40 year olds join a jihad as part of their midlife crisis

https://news.yahoo.com/taliban-fighters-sick-9-5-101420096.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 10, 2023, 11:10:58 AM

She's a hell of a lot funnier than Trevor Noah

https://news.yahoo.com/rep-nancy-mace-scorches-washington-in-brutal-roast-i-love-exercising-1st-amendment-rights-180230548.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 10, 2023, 03:03:42 PM

Some issue with our tickets took an hour to resolve… at gate, a bit stressed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 10, 2023, 03:42:13 PM

Quote from: ELA on February 10, 2023, 11:10:58 AM

She's a hell of a lot funnier than Trevor Noah

https://news.yahoo.com/rep-nancy-mace-scorches-washington-in-brutal-roast-i-love-exercising-1st-amendment-rights-180230548.html

Great stuff!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 10, 2023, 04:09:56 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 10, 2023, 03:42:13 PM

Great stuff!

I’m here for all of that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 10, 2023, 04:27:26 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 09, 2023, 01:35:01 PM

Had a schooner or three I'm hoping

had a few pints at the Kinkaider taproom

then had a few drinks at a new place in Lincoln called Fleetwood

Coach Rhule was there having a steak

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 11, 2023, 08:50:05 AM

I like it. Many parents cannot (or do not care to) control their kids. 


NJ Italian restaurant will ban children under the age of 10 (nypost.com) (https://nypost.com/2023/02/10/popular-nj-italian-restaurant-will-ban-children-under-the-age-of-10/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 11, 2023, 09:05:28 AM

great idea

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 11, 2023, 09:36:00 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 11, 2023, 08:50:05 AM

I like it. Many parents cannot (or do not care to) control their kids.


NJ Italian restaurant will ban children under the age of 10 (nypost.com) (https://nypost.com/2023/02/10/popular-nj-italian-restaurant-will-ban-children-under-the-age-of-10/)

On the one hand, this is fine. 

On the other, you've slightly brought it on yourself if you call your restaurant a "house of spaghetti." Just asking for the family crowd with that name. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 11, 2023, 09:38:28 AM

probably a few Italian Restaurants in Jersey that aren't fit for children

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 11, 2023, 11:29:12 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 11, 2023, 09:36:00 AM

On the one hand, this is fine.

On the other, you've slightly brought it on yourself if you call your restaurant a "house of spaghetti." Just asking for the family crowd with that name.

Yeah that does sort of scream "cheap family Italian restaurant" but they should do whatever they like with their business.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2023, 11:36:15 AM

At hotel in Dubai 13 hour flight after 2 hour flight 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 11, 2023, 12:48:49 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 11, 2023, 11:29:12 AM

Yeah that does sort of scream "cheap family Italian restaurant" but they should do whatever they like with their business.

Absolutely. And there’s no rule they can’t walk it back if it costs them money overall. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 11, 2023, 01:21:23 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 11, 2023, 11:36:15 AM

At hotel in Dubai 13 hour flight after 2 hour flight

I hope it's worth it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 11, 2023, 02:58:46 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 11, 2023, 11:29:12 AM

Yeah that does sort of scream "cheap family Italian restaurant" but they should do whatever they like with their business.

It ain't cheap.


MENU — Nettie's (nettiesrestaurant.com) (https://www.nettiesrestaurant.com/menu#dinner-2)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 11, 2023, 05:13:25 PM

So it was entitled, unruly kids causing issues?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 11, 2023, 08:10:40 PM

watching "the perfect Ten"

7 of ten in the room

OJ wasn't there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 11, 2023, 08:36:00 PM

Paul Hornung and Doak Walker where the 2 deceased that weren't in the room

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2023, 06:23:57 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 11, 2023, 05:13:25 PM

So it was entitled, unruly kids causing issues?

Yes. It's a trend.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2023, 07:12:32 AM

Trend.

(https://i.imgur.com/6Krj8q1.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 12, 2023, 08:22:52 AM

projected trend

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2023, 08:27:32 AM

It's a trend. One that is expected to continue.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 12, 2023, 08:54:23 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 11, 2023, 05:13:25 PM

So it was entitled, unruly kids causing issues?

/rolls eyes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 12, 2023, 10:11:30 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2023, 08:27:32 AM

It's a trend. One that is expected to continue.

lol, if that was a temperature chart, you'd be arguing that it's as likely to go back up as trend down.  
You and your slanted perspectives!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2023, 10:46:08 AM

Enrollment in public (read: union) schools in large D cities is down everywhere. And they wonder why.

Dumb and dumber.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 12, 2023, 11:17:21 AM

Let's see:
public schools aren't good enough, so let's have all of the families who value education leave and take funding with them
.
That's a great way to guarantee public schools fail altogether.  
.
When that happens, all those kids will enroll into the charters and (now publicly-funded) private schools and we're all back at square one.
.
Can't wait.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 12, 2023, 12:03:20 PM

Pulled pork with fried onion straws on buttered/toasted brioche. Plus cole slaw and Famous Dave's spicy pickles.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on February 12, 2023, 12:35:55 PM

Take it to the food thread.   You want to talk pies that's fine.  ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 12, 2023, 12:50:26 PM

in other news.......

Chili is in the pot and the kitchen is clean

when's kickoff?  I'm ready

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on February 12, 2023, 12:55:34 PM

A scandal snubbing the Elderly Max Mcgee from the all time SB roster.  ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 12, 2023, 01:19:23 PM

well, he's no Jerry Rice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 12, 2023, 02:17:32 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 12, 2023, 12:50:26 PM

in other news.......

Chili is in the pot and the kitchen is clean

when's kickoff?  I'm ready

When IS kickoff, anyway?  Isn't it usually something like 5:25 Central?

My SIL finally broke down and invited a few folks over.  We'll be having Brazilian hot dogs, and then some spinach-artichoke dip, chips and queso, guac, and fudge brownies for dessert.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 12, 2023, 02:36:43 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 12, 2023, 02:17:32 PM

When IS kickoff, anyway?  Isn't it usually something like 5:25 Central?

My SIL finally broke down and invited a few folks over.  We'll be having Brazilian hot dogs, and then some spinach-artichoke dip, chips and queso, guac, and fudge brownies for dessert.

Do you mind me asking: what is a Brazilian hot dog?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 12, 2023, 02:48:46 PM

a dog with Brazilian wax

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 12, 2023, 02:50:32 PM

I'm off to the shed

chili in hand

Enjoy the game!

Bud heavy in the suitcase!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 12, 2023, 03:05:18 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 12, 2023, 02:36:43 PM

Do you mind me asking: what is a Brazilian hot dog?

Don't mind at all.

Brazilian hot dogs are a staple in Brazilian street foods.  They're based on our hot dogs, but prepared and accompanied differently. I'd never heard of them either, until a good friend married a Brazilian girl, and she made them for all of us at a World Cup game watching party, 12 or 14 years back.

You start by making a tomato-based sauce with tomatoes, garlic, onions, and chopped bell peppers, sauteed and simmered until thick. Then you put the hot dog wieners in and simmer them for a while.  Some people cut them lengthwise so they soak up more of the sauce. 

Once your wieners are warmed up and cooked into the sauce, you can start constructing.  Brazilians tend to use mayo on the bun first, but you could use mustard or ketchup or BBQ sauce or whatever you like.  Then you place a wiener on, spoon on some of the sauce with chunky bits of tomato and onion and bell pepper, and then the real special part is the toppings.  They use all kinds of crazy stuff.  The most common are whole kernel corn, green peas, shoestring potatoes, shaved carrot, cilantro, and parmesan cheese.  They're really tasty!


(https://i.imgur.com/I1xBYV7.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/qfxNQ89.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 12, 2023, 03:15:17 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 12, 2023, 03:05:18 PM

Don't mind at all.

Brazilian hot dogs are a staple in Brazilian street foods.  They're based on our hot dogs, but prepared and accompanied differently. I'd never heard of them either, until a good friend married a Brazilian girl, and she made them for all of us at a World Cup game watching party, 12 or 14 years back.

You start by making a tomato-based sauce with tomatoes, garlic, onions, and chopped bell peppers, sauteed and simmered until thick. Then you put the hot dog wieners in and simmer them for a while.  Some people cut them lengthwise so they soak up more of the sauce. 

Once your wieners are warmed up and cooked into the sauce, you can start constructing.  Brazilians tend to use mayo on the bun first, but you could use mustard or ketchup or BBQ sauce or whatever you like.  Then you place a wiener on, spoon on some of the sauce with chunky bits of tomato and onion and bell pepper, and then the real special part is the toppings.  They use all kinds of crazy stuff.  The most common are whole kernel corn, green peas, shoestring potatoes, shaved carrot, cilantro, and parmesan cheese.  They're really tasty!


(https://i.imgur.com/I1xBYV7.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/qfxNQ89.png)

Damn!  Those look and sound great!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 12, 2023, 03:20:14 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 12, 2023, 03:15:17 PM

Damn!  Those look and sound great!

They're SO good.

Sometimes I just want a classic American chili cheese dog or mustard and kraut, but these are great as a change of pace.  And they're awesome for parties because hot dogs are cheap and people can just add whatever toppings they find interesting to dress them how they like.  Like a build your own sundae bar, but with hot dogs and corn instead of ice cream and fudge sauce. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 12, 2023, 03:47:18 PM

The restaurant on the street level of my building serves Carolina chili dogs. Which is basically just a split hotdog, chili, shocking amounts of coleslaw and then mustard. 

They are good but they will just put you in your ass. I am player does not get their money’s worth if I have lunch there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 12, 2023, 03:52:11 PM

playing the Black National Anthem at the Super Bowl

wonderful

way to unite the Country NFL

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 12, 2023, 04:35:23 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 12, 2023, 03:52:11 PM

playing the Black National Anthem at the Super Bowl

wonderful

way to unite the Country NFL

Your poor ears!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 12, 2023, 04:36:48 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 12, 2023, 04:35:23 PM

Your poor ears!

my ears are fine

its my poor divided country Im talking about

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 12, 2023, 04:36:53 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 12, 2023, 03:47:18 PM

The restaurant on the street level of my building serves Carolina chili dogs. Which is basically just a split hotdog, chili, shocking amounts of coleslaw and then mustard.

They are good but they will just put you in your ass. I am player does not get their money’s worth if I have lunch there.

The way I misread this part gave me the best idea ever.
Somehow my eyes interjected 'corndog' in there.

Why not have cornbread-breaded chili corndogs?  Dog and chili on the inside, surrounded by a cornbread breading on the outside.
Patent pending!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 12, 2023, 04:37:18 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 12, 2023, 04:36:48 PM

my ears are fine

its my poor divided country Im talking about

Right.
Hope nobody's kneeling!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 12, 2023, 05:10:51 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 12, 2023, 03:52:11 PM

playing the Black National Anthem at the Super Bowl

wonderful

way to unite the Country NFL

That’s ok.  As long as they play the White National Anthem too.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 12, 2023, 05:13:22 PM

Separate but equal, right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 12, 2023, 05:21:02 PM

so are we going to also have a gay National anthem

how bout a transgender National Anthem

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 12, 2023, 05:29:29 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 12, 2023, 05:21:02 PM

so are we going to also have a gay National anthem

how bout a transgender National Anthem

No. Your missing it.  It appears to be race driven.  So we need a Hispanic Anthem, And an Asian one.    Probably a few more.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 12, 2023, 06:00:38 PM

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRtRWGy2/ (https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRtRWGy2/)


NBA or NFL

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 12, 2023, 06:52:53 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 12, 2023, 05:21:02 PM

so are we going to also have a gay National anthem

how bout a transgender National Anthem

Well they already have their own flags, so why not. 

What would be the transgender National anthem's preferred pronouns? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 12, 2023, 07:19:01 PM

Poor Chris Stapleton did a good job with the crappiest America song

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 12, 2023, 11:43:38 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 12, 2023, 05:21:02 PM

so are we going to also have a gay National anthem

how bout a transgender National Anthem

Only if it bothers you to no end, apparently.  
So sensitive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 13, 2023, 02:32:40 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 12, 2023, 11:43:38 PM

Only if it bothers you to no end, apparently. 
So sensitive.

so un American

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 13, 2023, 07:11:56 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 12, 2023, 11:43:38 PM

Only if it bothers you to no end, apparently. 
So sensitive.

What are your preferred pronouns? Shim/Herm? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on February 13, 2023, 08:14:37 AM

Manufactured outrage is the best outrage. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 13, 2023, 08:17:28 AM

Intentional racism and decisiveness is the best racism and decisiveness 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2023, 09:59:26 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 12, 2023, 04:37:18 PM

Right.
Hope nobody's kneeling!!

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/329603576_6003051686474699_458955241352211903_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=x8VknWbop2AAX_KwAx5&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDWsEdtidrwMJLwBgJd4Ny2mwZB-yOEizlibXAzIKYDzQ&oe=63F01ADF)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 13, 2023, 10:48:56 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 13, 2023, 09:59:26 AM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/329603576_6003051686474699_458955241352211903_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=x8VknWbop2AAX_KwAx5&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDWsEdtidrwMJLwBgJd4Ny2mwZB-yOEizlibXAzIKYDzQ&oe=63F01ADF)

People who say things like that are deeply weird.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 13, 2023, 10:50:04 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 13, 2023, 08:17:28 AM

Intentional racism and decisiveness is the best racism and decisiveness

I’m correct in assuming you mean divisiveness? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 13, 2023, 10:51:33 AM

Decisively Divisive?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 13, 2023, 11:02:59 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 13, 2023, 10:51:33 AM

Decisively Divisive?

I’m America, we’re oft not decisive on much in the old culture wars. Other than being mad. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 13, 2023, 11:40:43 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 13, 2023, 11:02:59 AM

I’m America, we’re oft not decisive on much in the old culture wars. Other than being mad.

I love how you’re labeled as “mad “ for simply pointing something out.  

Nobody is mad.  Except maybe those who are being decisively divisive.  

It’s like golf to me.  People want to take mulligans and I always just say “hit it till you’re happy”

If people want their own anthem- sing until your happy. I sincerely doubt it will make them happy, but have at it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2023, 11:47:44 AM

yup, you do your thing

allow me to do my thing

it's all good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 13, 2023, 11:50:15 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 13, 2023, 11:40:43 AM

I love how you’re labeled as “mad “ for simply pointing something out. 

Nobody is mad.  Except maybe those who are being decisively divisive. 

It’s like golf to me.  People want to take mulligans and I always just say “hit it till you’re happy”

If people want their own anthem- sing until your happy. I sincerely doubt it will make them happy, but have at it.

I dont fault the people who want their own anthem

I fault the NFL for pormoting it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2023, 11:52:11 AM

NFL = old filthy rich white men league

just trying to enhance their otherwise terrible image

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 13, 2023, 11:57:30 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 13, 2023, 11:40:43 AM

I love how you’re labeled as “mad “ for simply pointing something out. 

Nobody is mad.  Except maybe those who are being decisively divisive. 

It’s like golf to me.  People want to take mulligans and I always just say “hit it till you’re happy”

If people want their own anthem- sing until your happy. I sincerely doubt it will make them happy, but have at it.

If you're declaring that someone is being divisive, that implies some level of displeasure with it. Unless being divisive is good or neutral.

Someone sang a song while I was talking to someone as they prepped sandwiches. We didn't have the sound on. If someone (not you) wasn't worried about the divisiveness of it all, I wouldn't know it was a thing to begin it.

(It occurs to me, I didn't even say you were mad. I pointed out something about culture wars. You seem to have labeled yourself here)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 13, 2023, 12:06:02 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 13, 2023, 11:57:30 AM

If you're declaring that someone is being divisive, that implies some level of displeasure with it. Unless being divisive is good or neutral.

Someone sang a song while I was talking to someone as they prepped sandwiches. We didn't have the sound on. If someone (not you) wasn't worried about the divisiveness of it all, I wouldn't know it was a thing to begin it.

(It occurs to me, I didn't even say you were mad. I pointed out something about culture wars. You seem to have labeled yourself here)

Not agreeing is not the same as being mad. And it was you who introduced the “mad” label- as you often do.

I don’t agree with many things I see and hear- and there are a couple that are important enough to me that they do actually bother me.

Like throwing political grenades while shouting at the target to “ stop throwing grenades” ( which is the go to tactic of certain people around here)

But the question of adding National Anthems isn’t even close to a bothersome level.  In fact it fits into the humorous category. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 13, 2023, 12:13:11 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 13, 2023, 12:06:02 PM

Not agreeing is not the same as being mad. And it was you who introduced the “mad” label- as you often do.

I don’t agree with many things I see and hear- and there are a couple that are important enough to me that they do actually bother me.

Like throwing political grenades while shouting at the target to “ stop throwing grenades” ( which is the go to tactic of certain people around here)

But the question of adding National Anthems isn’t even close to a bothersome level.  In fact it fits into the humorous category. 

This post is not reducing the sense of being mad (grenades and such). I'm sorry you feel that you were targeted in some way. 

Anyway. They sang a song. It apparently is often called the Black National Anthem. It's also, as far as I've read, a Christian hymnal. All these songs have whatever meaning we choose to bestow upon them. Since we choose to not sweat the small stuff, all sounds pretty mundane. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2023, 12:25:22 PM

one reason I watch the game and maybe the coin toss

everything else is just noise

commercials, halftime, pre-game, post-game

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 13, 2023, 12:32:54 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 13, 2023, 12:13:11 PM

This post is not reducing the sense of being mad (grenades and such). I'm sorry you feel that you were targeted in some way.

Anyway. They sang a song. It apparently is often called the Black National Anthem. It's also, as far as I've read, a Christian hymnal. All these songs have whatever meaning we choose to bestow upon them. Since we choose to not sweat the small stuff, all sounds pretty mundane.

All good. No need to apologize at all and in fact I don’t feel targeted in anyway. I was just speaking in generalities.

by the way- it is a beautiful sounding song. I rather enjoyed it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 13, 2023, 12:33:33 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 13, 2023, 12:25:22 PM

one reason I watch the game and maybe the coin toss

everything else is just noise

commercials, halftime, pre-game, post-game

I confess- I did enjoy many of the commercials. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2023, 12:36:59 PM

fly overs are the same

I feel they've been done before.  Like the Gatorade bucket on the winning coach

if someone else cares that it was an all-female crew for the flyover, that's fine with me, but I certainly don't care

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 13, 2023, 12:39:32 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 13, 2023, 12:13:11 PM

This post is not reducing the sense of being mad (grenades and such). I'm sorry you feel that you were targeted in some way.

Anyway. They sang a song. It apparently is often called the Black National Anthem. It's also, as far as I've read, a Christian hymnal. All these songs have whatever meaning we choose to bestow upon them. Since we choose to not sweat the small stuff, all sounds pretty mundane.

This was promoting a 2nd anthem for Black people on perhaps the most watched TV show all year

Thats a big deal to both pro and con groups amd not small stuff

it seems to me only yesterday when this country had water fountains labled Black and special seats at the back of buses for Blacks

Its amazing to me that anyone would promote a National Anthem for Blacks and is very devisive

It is a big deal

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on February 13, 2023, 01:27:40 PM

As for the flyover, I'm surprised that they had the roof open at Cardinal Stadium. I think that's the first time I've ever seen that roof open during a game.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 13, 2023, 01:38:28 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 13, 2023, 12:39:32 PM

This was promoting a 2nd anthem for Black people on perhaps the most watched TV show all year

Thats a big deal to both pro and con groups amd not small stuff

it seems to me only yesterday when this country had water fountains labled Black and special seats at the back of buses for Blacks

Its amazing to me that anyone would promote a National Anthem for Blacks and is very devisive

It is a big deal

If one wants it to be a big deal, I suppose it’ll be one. If one shrugs it off as an over-dramatic name, it won’t be.

It’s not actually an anthem of a black Christian separatist movement. It was literally a response to people mandating separate water fountains and written by folks sent to the backs of buses.

In the end, the answer to perceived “divisiveness” is just to counter by being welcoming and not drawing lines between ourselves. And if we feel someone draws those lines, welcome and respect them anyway, and we’ll be able to work on past it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 13, 2023, 01:48:34 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 13, 2023, 01:38:28 PM

If one wants it to be a big deal, I suppose it’ll be one. If one shrugs it off as an over-dramatic name, it won’t be.

It’s not actually an anthem of a black Christian separatist movement. It was literally a response to people mandating separate water fountains and written by folks sent to the backs of buses.

In the end, the answer to perceived “divisiveness” is just to counter by being welcoming and not drawing lines between ourselves. And if we feel someone draws those lines, welcome and respect them anyway, and we’ll be able to work on past it.

far out man

do we have chips

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 13, 2023, 01:54:18 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncbEucjsNFU

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2023, 02:09:55 PM

People Are Saying Sarah McLachlan’s Super Bowl Ad for Busch Light Is a ‘Masterpiece’

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 13, 2023, 02:13:55 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 13, 2023, 01:48:34 PM

far out man

do we have chips

This is America! Chips should be easy to procure. Hope they’re good. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 13, 2023, 02:15:18 PM

One nation, one anthem. End of story. Don't like it? There's a fix for that.

Go try to create a new anthem in China. I dare ya. Lemme know how socialism works for ya.

Go try to smoke weed in Russia. I dare ya. Of course, we don't have any ultra-violent assholes to trade to get ya back. Let me know how that goes for ya.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 13, 2023, 02:15:24 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 13, 2023, 01:38:28 PM

In the end, the answer to perceived “divisiveness” is just to counter by being welcoming and not drawing lines between ourselves. And if we feel someone draws those lines, welcome and respect them anyway, and we’ll be able to work on past it.

IMHO this is something that I think people are naturally inclined to do, and that the mark of enlightenment is transcending that urge. 

People are, by our human nature, tribal. We are inclined to think of "us" and "them". And by nature, "us" is good, and trustworthy, and someone we welcome, while "them" is bad, or untrustworthy, or dangerous and someone we should treat as a threat. Who is in the "us" category vs "them" category might be based on skin color, by gender, by political party, by class, by religion, by nationality, or by 1000 other distinctions. 

But it's all bullshit. Yes, there are bad people in the world. And there are good people in the world. But "us" aren't universally good, and "them" are not universally bad.

Drawing these lines between ourselves is something that probably made sense when we were hunter-gathering tribes, but the more we can avoid it now, the better off all of us will be. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 13, 2023, 02:17:09 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B3G9nQUcb8

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 13, 2023, 02:17:59 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 13, 2023, 02:15:24 PM

IMHO this is something that I think people are naturally inclined to do, and that the mark of enlightenment is transcending that urge.

People are, by our human nature, tribal. We are inclined to think of "us" and "them". And by nature, "us" is good, and trustworthy, and someone we welcome, while "them" is bad, or untrustworthy, or dangerous and someone we should treat as a threat. Who is in the "us" category vs "them" category might be based on skin color, by gender, by political party, by class, by religion, by nationality, or by 1000 other distinctions.

But it's all bullshit. Yes, there are bad people in the world. And there are good people in the world. But "us" aren't universally good, and "them" are not universally bad.

Drawing these lines between ourselves is something that probably made sense when we were hunter-gathering tribes, but the more we can avoid it now, the better off all of us will be.

I'm with you on most of this.

Speaking for me, I welcome anyone who wants to come here legally, adapt to our culture, work, achieve the dream. Come on into this great country.

Just don't try to change it.

Deal? Good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 13, 2023, 02:19:37 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 13, 2023, 02:15:24 PM

IMHO this is something that I think people are naturally inclined to do, and that the mark of enlightenment is transcending that urge.

People are, by our human nature, tribal. We are inclined to think of "us" and "them". And by nature, "us" is good, and trustworthy, and someone we welcome, while "them" is bad, or untrustworthy, or dangerous and someone we should treat as a threat. Who is in the "us" category vs "them" category might be based on skin color, by gender, by political party, by class, by religion, by nationality, or by 1000 other distinctions.

But it's all bullshit. Yes, there are bad people in the world. And there are good people in the world. But "us" aren't universally good, and "them" are not universally bad.

Drawing these lines between ourselves is something that probably made sense when we were hunter-gathering tribes, but the more we can avoid it now, the better off all of us will be.

How enlightened of you.  I assume you'd happily root for Indiana to win the national championship, in the spirit of transcendence?






;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 13, 2023, 02:29:36 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 13, 2023, 02:19:37 PM

How enlightened of you.  I assume you'd happily root for Indiana to win the national championship, in the spirit of transcendence?


;)

Awww helllll nawww!

Nor would I expect for them to root for Purdue. 

But you know what? I don't hate IU. I don't hate IU fans. I certainly don't hate IU athletes. I don't think people who go to IU are bad people. I don't think that people who go to / root for IU are fundamentally different from people who go to / root for Purdue. 

We're on different sides of a rivalry, but that doesn't mean that I will dehumanize them.

I honestly wish happiness and sulf-fulfillment for IU, their athletes, their students, their fans, etc...

...I just wish SLIGHTLY more happiness and self-fulfillment for whatever team is facing them. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 13, 2023, 02:37:06 PM

I hate IU. No engineering school. F them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 13, 2023, 02:48:37 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 13, 2023, 02:37:06 PM

I hate IU. No engineering school. F them.

That’s only because they’re an efficient state that sends all its nerds to the sticks to be nerds together.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 13, 2023, 02:50:08 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 13, 2023, 02:15:18 PM

One nation, one anthem. End of story. Don't like it? There's a fix for that.

Go try to create a new anthem in China. I dare ya. Lemme know how socialism works for ya.

Go try to smoke weed in Russia. I dare ya. Of course, we don't have any ultra-violent assholes to trade to get ya back. Let me know how that goes for ya.

So as long as people roll back the old term for the song, we’re hunky dory. Great! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2023, 03:07:32 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 13, 2023, 02:17:09 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B3G9nQUcb8

nothing special IMO

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 13, 2023, 03:32:16 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 13, 2023, 02:50:08 PM

So as long as people roll back the old term for the song, we’re hunky dory. Great!

I don't understand this remark, and I'm not trying to be obtuse or snarky, I just don't know what you mean?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 13, 2023, 03:41:46 PM

The original 3rd verse, which has not been used in many, many years. I've never heard it in my life.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 13, 2023, 04:22:37 PM

I've never heard anyone sing anything other than the first.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 13, 2023, 04:25:31 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 13, 2023, 03:32:16 PM

I don't understand this remark, and I'm not trying to be obtuse or snarky, I just don't know what you mean?

Me too. Or…. Neither!

The word obtuse always brings back the thought of the Shawshank redemption. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 13, 2023, 04:27:13 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 13, 2023, 04:22:37 PM

I've never heard anyone sing anything other than the first.

Yep.

Manufactured outrage is outrageous. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 13, 2023, 04:43:39 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 13, 2023, 02:17:59 PM

I'm with you on most of this.

Speaking for me, I welcome anyone who wants to come here legally, adapt to our culture, work, achieve the dream. Come on into this great country.

Just don't try to change it.

Deal? Good.

The only constant in life is change, Badge. This country has changed a hell of a lot since 1787. I'd argue a lot of it is what makes this such a great country. I'd argue that some of the things that changed I'd like to see go away. This country's culture changed as new immigrants arrived, and I'm not sure this country would be quite as great as it is if we had the same cultural makeup we had in 1787. 

But pretty much everyone who pushed for change, whether they were Mayflower material or whether they were recent immigrants, were trying to make the country greater (according to their best idea of what makes greatness).

I feel like there are a lot of people who look at the country we have now and say "let's stop here; no more change!" Well, there were people saying that 50 years ago, 100 years ago, and in most ways we're a hell of a lot greater than we were then. A lot of them argued about change about 160 years ago, and you may recall it was a pretty contentious argument. But we hashed it out and became greater. 

This country is great, but it is not perfect. We're trying. But you have to allow change to try. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 13, 2023, 04:55:57 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 13, 2023, 03:32:16 PM

I don't understand this remark, and I'm not trying to be obtuse or snarky, I just don't know what you mean?

Sorry, I'm a bit sleepy today. 

Basically, it's not really a "national anthem" because it's not the anthem of any country. It's just a name that some folks in the late 1910s gave to a song that was written in 1900 and sung by children's choir in segregated Jacksonville. I guess it's a song sung by folks that fought segregation, which we can all agree was a pretty just cause. 

Basically, it seems a lot of folks are upset that it's called a national anthem by some folks. So if we just don't use that phrasing, we're in good shape. They sang America the Beautiful too. And it was just kinda a song that was there. NBD. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 13, 2023, 05:05:21 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 13, 2023, 04:55:57 PM

Sorry, I'm a bit sleepy today.

Basically, it's not really a "national anthem" because it's not the anthem of any country. It's just a name that some folks in the late 1910s gave to a song that was written in 1900 and sung by children's choir in segregated Jacksonville. I guess it's a song sung by folks that fought segregation, which we can all agree was a pretty just cause.

Basically, it seems a lot of folks are upset that it's called a national anthem by some folks. So if we just don't use that phrasing, we're in good shape. They sang America the Beautiful too. And it was just kinda a song that was there. NBD.

OK.  Then I guess I don't understand any of this.

Is there some codified procedure by which something becomes the National Anthem of The United States of America? Is it in the Constitution?

It's widely recognized both nationally and internationally, as being our national anthem.  Is there some further rigor that is required?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 13, 2023, 05:10:56 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 13, 2023, 05:05:21 PM

OK.  Then I guess I don't understand any of this.

Is there some codified procedure by which something becomes the National Anthem of The United States of America? Is it in the Constitution?

It's widely recognized both nationally and internationally, as being our national anthem.  Is there some further rigor that is required?

Sorry, sounds like you're talking about "The Star Spangled Banner" the song officially recognized as the national anthem. An act of Congress in 1931 did codify it as our national anthem. 

BAB is talking about the song "Lift Every Voice and Sing" that some have a problem as it is often referred to as the "Black National Anthem". It is not recognized by any official government body as a national anthem anywhere: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift_Every_Voice_and_Sing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 13, 2023, 05:25:57 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 13, 2023, 04:43:39 PM

The only constant in life is change, Badge. This country has changed a hell of a lot since 1787. I'd argue a lot of it is what makes this such a great country. I'd argue that some of the things that changed I'd like to see go away. This country's culture changed as new immigrants arrived, and I'm not sure this country would be quite as great as it is if we had the same cultural makeup we had in 1787.

But pretty much everyone who pushed for change, whether they were Mayflower material or whether they were recent immigrants, were trying to make the country greater (according to their best idea of what makes greatness).

I feel like there are a lot of people who look at the country we have now and say "let's stop here; no more change!" Well, there were people saying that 50 years ago, 100 years ago, and in most ways we're a hell of a lot greater than we were then. A lot of them argued about change about 160 years ago, and you may recall it was a pretty contentious argument. But we hashed it out and became greater.

This country is great, but it is not perfect. We're trying. But you have to allow change to try.

Not all change is good.  Not even close.
There are a lot of people in this country who want changes that will not make this a better place- and that is often not their stated goal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 13, 2023, 05:36:56 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 13, 2023, 05:10:56 PM

Sorry, sounds like you're talking about "The Star Spangled Banner" the song officially recognized as the national anthem. An act of Congress in 1931 did codify it as our national anthem.

BAB is talking about the song "Lift Every Voice and Sing" that some have a problem as it is often referred to as the "Black National Anthem". It is not recognized by any official government body as a national anthem anywhere: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift_Every_Voice_and_Sing

what this guy said. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 13, 2023, 05:44:09 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 13, 2023, 04:55:57 PM

Sorry, I'm a bit sleepy today.

Basically, it's not really a "national anthem" because it's not the anthem of any country. It's just a name that some folks in the late 1910s gave to a song that was written in 1900 and sung by children's choir in segregated Jacksonville. I guess it's a song sung by folks that fought segregation, which we can all agree was a pretty just cause.

Basically, it seems a lot of folks are upset that it's called a national anthem by some folks. So if we just don't use that phrasing, we're in good shape. They sang America the Beautiful too. And it was just kinda a song that was there. NBD.

Were you aware that prior to playing this song the game announcer requests everyone to stand?

Like I said earlier the NFL is way off base with this one

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 13, 2023, 06:09:52 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 13, 2023, 05:44:09 PM

Were you aware that prior to playing this song the game announcer requests everyone to stand?

Like I said earlier the NFL is way off base with this one

Does asking to stand carry extra weight? 

I’ve heard PA folks ask people to stand for a lot of stuff at sporting events. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 13, 2023, 06:34:20 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 13, 2023, 06:09:52 PM

Does asking to stand carry extra weight?

I’ve heard PA folks ask people to stand for a lot of stuff at sporting events.

youre deflecting

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2023, 06:57:19 PM

On ship headed to Abu Dabi

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 13, 2023, 07:00:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 13, 2023, 06:57:19 PM

On ship headed to Abu Dabi

how long did you enlist for

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 13, 2023, 07:29:41 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 13, 2023, 05:25:57 PM

Not all change is good.  Not even close.
There are a lot of people in this country who want changes that will not make this a better place- and that is often not their stated goal.

Never said all change is good, and I don't believe that. 

What I *do* believe is that when people think that, politically, "the other side" is trying to make change in bad faith, i.e. trying to make change because they're trying to hurt the country, those people are dead wrong. 

Now, you may think the changes they're trying to push will hurt the country. But intent matters, and it does you no help to assume your political opponents are actively bad in their intent, rather than incorrect about the effects of the changes they're pushing for. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 13, 2023, 07:34:54 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 13, 2023, 05:10:56 PM

Sorry, sounds like you're talking about "The Star Spangled Banner" the song officially recognized as the national anthem. An act of Congress in 1931 did codify it as our national anthem.

BAB is talking about the song "Lift Every Voice and Sing" that some have a problem as it is often referred to as the "Black National Anthem". It is not recognized by any official government body as a national anthem anywhere: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift_Every_Voice_and_Sing

Oh, ok.  Obviously I was still confused.

As it turns out, people making obtuse references rather than stating explicitly what they're talking about, ends up causing confusion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 13, 2023, 07:41:46 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 13, 2023, 07:34:54 PM

Oh, ok.  Obviously I was still confused.

As it turns out, people making obtuse references rather than stating explicitly what they're talking about, ends up causing confusion.

Yeah, and in this thread it usually results in two groups of people arguing with each other based on what they THOUGHT the other group was trying to say because the other group wasn't very clear. 

And since each group are predisposed to assume the worst intent from the other group to begin with, any confusion is interpreted in the worst light possible. 

Which is why I try to be careful and correct in my language choices. Which often results in writing a long post to get my point across, because I don't have time to write a short one. Which, because the world is tl;dr, means it never gets read anyway. 

Which is part of the reason I needed a hiatus. I no longer have any interest in talking about Purdue, and most of the other discussions were not particularly productive. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 13, 2023, 08:11:00 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 13, 2023, 07:29:41 PM

Never said all change is good, and I don't believe that.

What I *do* believe is that when people think that, politically, "the other side" is trying to make change in bad faith, i.e. trying to make change because they're trying to hurt the country, those people are dead wrong.

Now, you may think the changes they're trying to push will hurt the country. But intent matters, and it does you no help to assume your political opponents are actively bad in their intent, rather than incorrect about the effects of the changes they're pushing for.

Politics and political opponents?  Not sure how you got that or anything close from my post. 

I will just stop there instead of giving you the many easy examples of changes being sought where the stated goal - the intent- is not good for the country and in some cases to hurt the country.

I see too many falsely hiding behind the narrative that if you don’t agree with them you can’t handle change or you want to keep everything the same. It’s kind of what you were doing to badge in your post

no- some changes are just bad ideas.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 13, 2023, 08:22:13 PM

In other news, before the Superbowl game yesterday, Dak Prescott was presented the Walter Payton NFL Man Of The Year Award for his charitable work, and of course the philly fans in attendance booed him. 

https://twitter.com/SonnyBunch/status/1624908702733008897?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1624908702733008897%7Ctwgr%5Ec383621904ad379cf0b9126e5ccd199584bf8f22%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wfaa.com%2Farticle%2Fsports%2Fnfl%2Fcowboys%2Fsuper-bowl-dak-prescott-boos-walter-payton-man-of-the-year-eagles-fans%2F287-21e78b71-63ff-4ac1-8d11-8c48d24e0163

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 13, 2023, 08:42:36 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 13, 2023, 08:22:13 PM

In other news, before the Superbowl game yesterday, Dak Prescott was presented the Walter Payton NFL Man Of The Year Award for his charitable work, and of course the philly fans in attendance booed him. 

https://twitter.com/SonnyBunch/status/1624908702733008897?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1624908702733008897%7Ctwgr%5Ec383621904ad379cf0b9126e5ccd199584bf8f22%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wfaa.com%2Farticle%2Fsports%2Fnfl%2Fcowboys%2Fsuper-bowl-dak-prescott-boos-walter-payton-man-of-the-year-eagles-fans%2F287-21e78b71-63ff-4ac1-8d11-8c48d24e0163

Well they also booed Santa also so Dak should feel like hes in good company

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2023, 09:05:10 PM

no wonder the Refs screwed Philly

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 13, 2023, 09:12:45 PM

Active shooter on MSU campus

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 13, 2023, 10:07:02 PM

Quote from: ELA on February 13, 2023, 09:12:45 PM

Active shooter on MSU campus

https://m.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/34012


live broadcast police comm. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 13, 2023, 10:13:58 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 13, 2023, 07:34:54 PM

Oh, ok.  Obviously I was still confused.

As it turns out, people making obtuse references rather than stating explicitly what they're talking about, ends up causing confusion.

I was typing fast on the phone and thought the thread about this "black national anthem" business carried through. Didn't mean to cause the confusion. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 13, 2023, 10:16:50 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 13, 2023, 06:34:20 PM

youre deflecting

From?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 13, 2023, 10:19:10 PM

Quote from: ELA on February 13, 2023, 09:12:45 PM

Active shooter on MSU campus

Listening live via that link I shared. 

shots still being fired.  Shooter moving around. Multiple fatalities 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 13, 2023, 10:38:13 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 13, 2023, 10:16:50 PM

From?

from the fact that if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a duck

this song was presented to the folks in the stands the same as our National Anthem was

again the NFL failed America on this one

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2023, 10:43:52 PM

was an alternate flag displayed along with the alternate anthem?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 14, 2023, 01:02:48 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 13, 2023, 10:38:13 PM

again the NFL failed America on this one

You fail America every time you turn on your computer.  Talk about a snowflake.  Jesus Fucking Christ.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 14, 2023, 02:13:10 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 14, 2023, 01:02:48 AM

You fail America every time you turn on your computer.  Talk about a snowflake.  Jesus Fucking Christ.

right out of the liberal handbook

when you are on the losing side of a discussion come out with personal attacks

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on February 14, 2023, 07:19:12 AM

So, it took two sidewinder missiles at about $472,000 each to pop that balloon over Lake Huron.  Why don't they use their 20mm canon?


https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-military-first-shot-unknown-octagonal-object-lake-huron-missed (https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-military-first-shot-unknown-octagonal-object-lake-huron-missed)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 14, 2023, 08:08:41 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 14, 2023, 01:02:48 AM

You fail America every time you turn on your computer.  Talk about a snowflake.  Jesus Fucking Christ.

Your lack of self awareness is absolutely breathtaking. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 14, 2023, 08:44:54 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 13, 2023, 06:57:19 PM

On ship headed to Abu Dabi

ARTICLE OF THE DAY: 

Abu Dhabi
Located on the Persian Gulf, Abu Dhabi is the largest of the seven emirates that make up the United Arab Emirates (UAE). Its capital, also named Abu Dhabi, is the second largest city in the UAE and became the provisional capital when the UAE was formed in 1971. Oil was discovered there in the late 1960s, and the abundant oil revenues have since been used for the country's development and modernization. What was one of Abu Dhabi's major industries before it was eclipsed by oil?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 14, 2023, 09:01:07 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 13, 2023, 10:38:13 PM

from the fact that if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a duck

this song was presented to the folks in the stands the same as our National Anthem was

again the NFL failed America on this one

Hmm, now there's a thing we can look at. The best I can pull is this recording of 3 hours outside the open roof stadium (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57twaF5KipU&ab_channel=TheIndependent). 

They announce the NFL man of the year around 2:30:10. Eagles fans boo. 

Some inspirational music. 

Seconds later, they announce the ASL lady. Then they said "to perform 'Lift Every Voice and sing,' please welcome (Lady's name)." She immediately sings, with a choir and no flag to speak of. 

Then some claps. Then nothing and start piping in the pregame show.

More than 14 minutes later, they play "America the Beautiful" and the national anthem. They announce a different ASL person. They say America the Beautiful celebrates our country. 

Then they announce who is carrying the colors (marine band). Welcome another ASL person. Again say they'll honor America, call it the national anthem and say it's Chris Stapleton and he starts playing. 

So they asked no one to stand at any point. Certianly not for a song that was announced after a ceremony and more than 10 minutes before the national anthem. Not presented as a national anthem, or close to the national anthem. No flag raised. Not even in the block of songs with the national anthem. 

I'll leave that without more commentary. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on February 14, 2023, 09:26:12 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on February 13, 2023, 01:27:40 PM

As for the flyover, I'm surprised that they had the roof open at Cardinal Stadium. I think that's the first time I've ever seen that roof open during a game.

Been there a number of times with the roof open.  Once the hot weather breaks late nov or Dec they open the roof. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2023, 09:29:18 AM

Quote from: ELA on February 13, 2023, 09:12:45 PM

Active shooter on MSU campus

Nothing about any motives that I can tell from a quick search.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 14, 2023, 09:29:42 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on February 14, 2023, 07:19:12 AM

So, it took two sidewinder missiles at about $472,000 each to pop that balloon over Lake Huron.  Why don't they use their 20mm canon?


https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-military-first-shot-unknown-octagonal-object-lake-huron-missed (https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-military-first-shot-unknown-octagonal-object-lake-huron-missed)

so, what else was going to happen to those sidewinders?
Training exercise or mothballs?
donation to Ukraine?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2023, 09:44:38 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 14, 2023, 09:29:42 AM

so, what else was going to happen to those sidewinders?
Training exercise or mothballs?
donation to Ukraine?

I'd like to know why they cost so much.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 14, 2023, 10:47:15 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2023, 09:29:18 AM

Nothing about any motives that I can tell from a quick search.

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 13, 2023, 10:19:10 PM

Listening live via that link I shared.

shots still being fired.  Shooter moving around. Multiple fatalities

This probably deserves a thread.

ANY new info?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 14, 2023, 10:56:47 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2023, 09:44:38 AM

I'd like to know why they cost so much.

you know damn well

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 14, 2023, 04:41:35 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on February 14, 2023, 10:47:15 AM

This probably deserves a thread.

ANY new info?

Shooter had no connection to MSU and no obvious motive.  An alleged history of mental illness, and a note in his pocket threatening school in NJ, where is from.    

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 14, 2023, 05:59:03 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2023, 09:29:18 AM

Nothing about any motives that I can tell from a quick search.

Motive?  It is way too easy for loner psychos to acquire multiple firearms, while we simultaneously tax our population into oblivion to either shoot down balloons or hand warheads to Ukraine

And we are too entrenched in our own political parties to realize that both are problems, because those with a voice to do so, are only focused on supporting the party of their choice, while turning a blinc eye to their own hypocricy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 14, 2023, 06:23:29 PM

Quote from: ELA on February 14, 2023, 05:59:03 PM

Motive?  It is way too easy for loner psychos to acquire multiple firearms, while we simultaneously tax our population into oblivion to either shoot down balloons or hand warheads to Ukraine

And we are too entrenched in our own political parties to realize that both are problems, because those with a voice to do so, are only focused on supporting the party of their choice, while turning a blinc eye to their own hypocricy

maybe its just elected officials following the will of the people

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 14, 2023, 06:37:32 PM

maybe not

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 14, 2023, 06:39:37 PM

He was arrested for illegal possession of a firearm- a 5 year penalty.  He was able to plead it to a misdemeanor and given probation versus 2 years.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 14, 2023, 07:20:39 PM

Wish he would have just shot up some Political backsides instead

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 14, 2023, 07:36:42 PM

Shooter wasn't a White guy, so don't expect much more coverage out of the MSM. 

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2023/02/14/PDTN/88757bca-3e60-4fcc-9249-b68ee1f54eb0-McRae_photo.jpg?width=1200&disable=upscale&format=pjpg&auto=webp)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 14, 2023, 08:35:41 PM

I'd assume any lack of coverage is due to how common mass shootings are now.  
But you're probably right, it's a race thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 14, 2023, 09:21:46 PM

It would be about all you ever heard about for at least a month if it was a White male. But since it wasn't, back to the Chinese balloons. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 14, 2023, 10:05:24 PM

That darn reverse racism, amIright?!?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 14, 2023, 10:27:19 PM

good guess

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 14, 2023, 11:51:27 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 14, 2023, 06:39:37 PM

He was arrested for illegal possession of a firearm- a 5 year penalty.  He was able to plead it to a misdemeanor and given probation versus 2 years. 

A pair of small notes, he was charged with illegally carrying a concealed weapon, not illegal possession of a firearm.

Also, the maximum penalty is so rarely used, it's kind of a misnomer. If he hadn't pled, gone through a trial and been found guilty, it's pretty unlikely he gets much time (and to be fair, I think many of us would agree, that particular charge is probably not worth much prison time, if any). 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 14, 2023, 11:56:55 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 14, 2023, 10:27:19 PM

good guess

:s_laugh:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 15, 2023, 05:17:00 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 14, 2023, 11:51:27 PM

A pair of small notes, he was charged with illegally carrying a concealed weapon, not illegal possession of a firearm.

Also, the maximum penalty is so rarely used, it's kind of a misnomer. If he hadn't pled, gone through a trial and been found guilty, it's pretty unlikely he gets much time (and to be fair, I think many of us would agree, that particular charge is probably not worth much prison time, if any).

No judgement here  I was just posting what I had factually read ( and you made a minor nuanced correction- thank you)

Now- you added some opinion to your post - which I think I likely agree with, regarding sentencing “ norms”.

Ironically- we are saying we don’t strongly enforce or penalize the CURRENT gun laws, yet so many seem to think the answer is more gun laws.  Interesting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2023, 07:55:08 AM

Quote from: ELA on February 14, 2023, 05:59:03 PM

Motive?  It is way too easy for loner psychos to acquire multiple firearms, while we simultaneously tax our population into oblivion to either shoot down balloons or hand warheads to Ukraine

And we are too entrenched in our own political parties to realize that both are problems, because those with a voice to do so, are only focused on supporting the party of their choice, while turning a blinc eye to their own hypocricy

I agree on it being too easy for criminals to acquire guns. This guy should not have had one, and most certainly didn't get it legally. I also agree on the taxing part.

I would like to know a motive here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 08:26:52 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2023, 07:55:08 AM

I agree on it being too easy for criminals to acquire guns. This guy should not have had one, and most certainly didn't get it legally. I also agree on the taxing part.

I would like to know a motive here.

Was there a report that he didn’t get it legally?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2023, 08:40:54 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 08:26:52 AM

Was there a report that he didn’t get it legally?

Given his record, it's my understanding that he would not be allowed to buy one from a licensed seller.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 08:46:47 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2023, 08:40:54 AM

Given his record, it's my understanding that he would not be allowed to buy one from a licensed seller.

His record being the 2019 thing? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2023, 08:54:50 AM

Yes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 15, 2023, 09:04:51 AM

no good way to keep guys like him from obtaining a gun

unless you take guns away from everyone

not gonna happen in my lifetime

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 15, 2023, 09:18:16 AM

in other news......... @Drew4UTk (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1) 


I somehow logged in as "mobile" this morning


things look different on my laptop


not bad, just different

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 15, 2023, 10:00:24 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 15, 2023, 09:18:16 AM

in other news......... @Drew4UTk (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1)


I somehow logged in as "mobile" this morning


things look different on my laptop


not bad, just different

that has got to be an update with the browser, and a cat and mouse game played regularly i've somehow avoided for a long while... it may have finally caught up!  the whole 'mobile' thing breaks over a single pixel size, iirc it's 1079-1080px.. from 1079 lower you get the mobile theme, from 1080+ you get the 'normal... there is another one around 2200px iirc, but it basically just frames the site and doesn't allow it to get any bigger... this is all from memory, and a memory more than two years old which is the last time I did anything with design.... yup- it's been that long since any 'real' alterations to this site.... because i'm lazy... and because "if it ain't broke I ain't fixin it"... but if it's broke?  I'll get to it... 

let me know if it corrects itself.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 10:01:38 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2023, 08:54:50 AM

Yes.

Hmmm. 

If that kind of thing, and things worse than it were to curtail someone’s rights to bear arms, it would reflect as a rather sweeping sort of gun control. 

It would be interesting though probably not feasible given the pushes for gun rights and general disinterest in letting the government curtail them. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 15, 2023, 10:31:03 AM

convicted felons abandon their rights as free citizens, no?  disallowing a convicted felon from possession of a firearm is already a thing.  yet, allowing convicted felons to vote is also, now, a thing- telling me some pols want some rights restored (the rights that help them) and some retained (the ones where the convicted felon can act outside of the state's control). 

this environment that we live in is absurd.  we've forgotten the whole for fear of offending the individual.  we want 'mob' control and no individual liberties when that suits the person talking, but individual liberties when that same person is talking about something else.  we want sweeping laws with dramatic penalty when we're presented with a clown like this one, and because we're told so by media and pols who both have armed security.  

i've got a pistol in my waistband right this second.  it's always there.  i don't recall the last time it's seen daylight-- it's drawn at night and put in the safe box, and just like my wallet and glasses it's retrieved in the morning and goes on my person.  statistically, i'll never need it.  i doubt my family or i will ever be a statistic because i have it.  

these clowns follow an MO that makes it easy to profile them.  they're almost all from some marginalized group- they're told so by the media and their outrage is warranted.  they're almost all connected to psych drugs either current or in their not-so-distant past.  they're angry little bitches who believe it's okay- that they are justified in lashing out (like bratty children) and "I'll show you!"... and they always choose soft targets. ... and, not to piss anyone off anymore than they already are- they almost always are on the far left of the political prism, where emotional response is worshipped and rational and logic is abandoned- evidenced by the 'woke', by the actions in the streets across America rioting after an ass hole cop did ass hole cop things.  justified- as told to them by political figures and the media.  

we've forgotten "live and let live" because either you're with me or against me.  there is no middle ground.  I'm so freakin' over this- it serves only one group and that is the media and the establishment (yes, that's one group). 

how to correct it?  shoot back.  that's a start.  shoot back with words to the media and established- shoot back with votes- shoot back with bullets to those who are brainwashed into believing they "have a point and that point is more valuable than life".  ... and freakin stop acting like bitches- you and i may disagree about just about everything, but that warrants no violence or shenanigans to incite violence.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2023, 10:32:35 AM

Anyone convicted of a gun crime should not be able to legally purchase a gun. My general opinion of course, as a lawful gun owner.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2023, 10:47:35 AM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on February 15, 2023, 10:31:03 AM

these clowns follow an MO that makes it easy to profile them.  they're almost all from some marginalized group- they're told so by the media and their outrage is warranted.  they're almost all connected to psych drugs either current or in their not-so-distant past.  they're angry little bitches who believe it's okay- that they are justified in lashing out (like bratty children) and "I'll show you!"... and they always choose soft targets. ... and, not to piss anyone off anymore than they already are- they almost always are on the far left of the political prism, where emotional response is worshipped and rational and logic is abandoned- evidenced by the 'woke', by the actions in the streets across America rioting after an ass hole cop did ass hole cop things.  justified- as told to them by political figures and the media. 

There was a book I read a few years back that profiled a lot of the mass shooters. The biggest common denominator, on top of other mental issues, were diagnoses or at least major symptoms consistent with paranoid schizophrenia. 

Which isn't to say that you're wrong, but that to go from what you said to "shooting up a big group of people" usually requires an additional fuel on the fire. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 10:50:10 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2023, 10:32:35 AM

Anyone convicted of a gun crime should not be able to legally purchase a gun. My general opinion of course, as a lawful gun owner.

He was convicted of a paperwork crime. He took a gun he owned legally in a car he owned legally. But he lives in a place where having a gun you own legally in a place people can’t see is a crime without the proper government paperwork.

It’s a crime that would carry no jail time for him, just paperwork. And it was pled down to a crime that carried no jail time, just paperwork and a requirement to be in good behavior, both of which he completed.

Like, I don’t have strong feelings one way or the other. But if that’s cause to strip your second amendment rights, that’s a weak second amendment and strong gun control laws.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 10:53:52 AM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on February 15, 2023, 10:31:03 AM

convicted felons abandon their rights as free citizens, no?  disallowing a convicted felon from possession of a firearm is already a thing.  yet, allowing convicted felons to vote is also, now, a thing- telling me some pols want some rights restored (the rights that help them) and some retained (the ones where the convicted felon can act outside of the …

I’m a little confused by this. Are you saying this applies in this situation, or just a general thought?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2023, 11:24:19 AM

It's an extremely complicated simple subject.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2023, 11:43:58 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/FSO7sU0.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2023, 11:56:57 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2023, 11:24:19 AM

It's an extremely complicated simple subject.

There is always a well-known solution to every human problem--neat, plausible, and wrong.
-H. L. Mencken

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 12:00:18 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2023, 11:24:19 AM

It's an extremely complicated simple subject.

What I meant was, is he arguing that this person should be stripped of said rights as a convicted felon?

Because him not being a convicted felon would complicate that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2023, 12:37:52 PM

Again, it's complicated. The man committed a gun crime he and was charged with a felony. That charge was reduced in a plea deal. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 12:52:25 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2023, 12:37:52 PM

Again, it's complicated. The man committed a gun crime he and was charged with a felony. That charge was reduced in a plea deal.

Yes. But in this country, things (ideally) are decided by what you are actually convicted of.

And the “gun crime” is not having a government permission slip. Didn’t shoot anyone. Didn’t threaten anyone. Just had his property on his person in a manner the government deems problematic.

I mean. If we want to drastically expand the set of situations where the government can limit firearm possession, I suppose that’s a chat we could have. I just didn’t expect it to align like this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2023, 01:02:01 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 12:52:25 PM

Yes. But in this country, things (ideally) are decided by what you are actually convicted of.

And the “gun crime” is not having a government permission slip. Didn’t shoot anyone. Didn’t threaten anyone. Just had his property on his person in a manner the government deems problematic.

I mean. If we want to drastically expand the set of situations where the government can limit firearm possession, I suppose that’s a chat we could have. I just didn’t expect it to align like this.

Why?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 15, 2023, 01:13:09 PM

seems it was problematic the other night

Perhaps the prosecutor & judge should have done some homework and realized this guy could be dangerous and not have taken the plea?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 01:25:45 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2023, 01:02:01 PM

Why?

Because the government doesn’t want you carrying your gun non-visibly unless they let you do so. 

Interestingly, other states basically outlaw open carry in the vast majority of cases. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 01:27:42 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 15, 2023, 01:13:09 PM

seems it was problematic the other night

Perhaps the prosecutor & judge should have done some homework and realized this guy could be dangerous and not have taken the plea?

Even if they didn’t, he wouldn’t have served any jail time. And it’s not super likely he’d be barred from firearm possession. 

Again, that law has a range of outcomes. And most of the bad ones only apply to repeat offenders. 

What homework would they have done?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 15, 2023, 01:31:33 PM

checked that he met the profile of mental health issues for a start
any other violence issues in the past

most felons are barred from firearm possession

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2023, 01:34:47 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 01:25:45 PM

Because the government doesn’t want you carrying your gun non-visibly unless they let you do so.

Interestingly, other states basically outlaw open carry in the vast majority of cases.

Including mine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 01:35:49 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2023, 01:34:47 PM

Including mine.

The exact one I was thinking of! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 15, 2023, 01:36:39 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 01:25:45 PM

Because the government doesn’t want you carrying your gun non-visibly unless they let you do so.

Interestingly, other states basically outlaw open carry in the vast majority of cases.

more then 30 states allow open carry

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 01:41:35 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 15, 2023, 01:31:33 PM

checked that he met the profile of mental health issues for a start
any other violence issues in the past

most felons are barred from firearm possession

Was there a history of mental issues or violence? 

Again, if we want to give the government much broader discretion with denying folks this particular constitutional right, that’s a chat to have. But in our modern society, with how much people say weird stuff, the externalities would likely brush against the wishes of many firearm owners. (And be a struggle to apply evenly) 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 01:44:19 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 15, 2023, 01:36:39 PM

more then 30 states allow open carry

Yup. Nearly 40. Nine require permits, mostly Northeastern ones, plus Minnesota, Indiana and SC. 

Only four and DC prohibit it, interestingly Florida and three very blue ones.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 15, 2023, 01:47:37 PM

banning this guy from Firearms would probably not have any bearing on what happened

these guys find a way with or without permission and with or without firearms

but, even staunch 2nd amendment defenders don't want mentally ill people with past records of violence running around with guns

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 15, 2023, 01:48:32 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 01:44:19 PM

Yup. Nearly 40. Nine require permits, mostly Northeastern ones, plus Minnesota, Indiana and SC.

Only four and DC prohibit it, interestingly Florida and three very blue ones.

have you spent any time in Florida? those folks are looney ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2023, 01:52:50 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 15, 2023, 01:48:32 PM

have you spent any time in Florida? those folks are looney ;)

Yep, and almost none of us are actually from here. Heh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 15, 2023, 01:57:35 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2023, 01:52:50 PM

Yep, and almost none of us are actually from here. Heh.

Golderned carpetbaggers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 02:05:10 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 15, 2023, 01:48:32 PM

have you spent any time in Florida? those folks are looney ;)

It’s an interesting case. 

On the one hand, constitutional rights and such. On the other, publicly having a firearm all but makes it open season in you in the eyes of law enforcement. Weird spot to be in. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2023, 03:37:33 PM

Home Prices Are Still Rising but Not Where You'd Expect (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/home-prices-are-still-rising-but-not-where-you-d-expect/ss-AA17x3N5?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=d13463b773e541ccb9e7a45aee3ac3c7#image=1)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 03:46:25 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2023, 03:37:33 PM

Home Prices Are Still Rising but Not Where You'd Expect (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/home-prices-are-still-rising-but-not-where-you-d-expect/ss-AA17x3N5?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=d13463b773e541ccb9e7a45aee3ac3c7#image=1)

Huh? 

On the one hand, that summation was exactly what I’d expect. On the other, when I clicked the link, the locations were at least interesting. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 15, 2023, 03:54:00 PM

it was a general statement- not specific to this situation and not applicable to this situation as this clown wasn't convicted of at least that felony.  

what i'm saying is when we open the door to picking what and how we want to enforce something we open the door to all kinds of issues that makes things far more complicated than it should be.  

he was charged with a felony.  he bid the court to lessen the charge successfully.  he later does something that having that full charge on his record may have made more difficult to do... ---- why do we trump up charges? why do we negotiate a lessor charge?  why is there opportunity to change these things?  

we support some items within the bill of rights and attack others.. why?  either we're free and protected from bad state actors, or we're subjects of rulers... and worse, mob.. 

why are felons in some locations allowed to vote?  if that is on the table, what else is up for debate?  

our contract with society is pretty clear and neat- it's complicated by those who live between the letter of the law and the spirit- who we call lawyers... they beg the question when it supports their agenda, and then they stand tall and proclaim the letter of the law when it benefits their cause- all the while, laws and the languages of have exhausted their structure to the best of the drafters ability.... just for some group of robe wearers to come along years after the law was enacted to question what 'those effers really meant".... 

" oh what a tangled web we weave......"

and THAT is the crux of it... nothing is irrevocable- nothing is beyond reproach- which describes the paradox... if nothing is irrevocable or disallowed to be brought under scrutiny, are we truly free or are we bound by things that made sense centuries ago but are no longer applicable?  

bottom line?  if you want your freedom you're gonna have to put up with a bunch of bull shit that threatens your security- if you want security you're going to lose a good part of your freedom. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 15, 2023, 03:59:01 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 15, 2023, 01:31:33 PM

checked that he met the profile of mental health issues for a start
any other violence issues in the past

most felons are barred from firearm possession

mine doesn't outlaw the practice... every time i see someone carrying in the open i wonder "what did you do to make it where you can't carry concealed?  if you do have a concealed permit why do you carry in the open?"

some cities and counties will slap a charge "going armed with intent to cause fear of the public" and which doesn't make open carry illegal, but makes it up to the officer observing if you were doing something and using that weapon as a means of intimidation... which, by my reckoning- it precisely what's going on every time i see some twit with a cannon strapped to their side. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 15, 2023, 04:03:50 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2023, 10:47:35 AM

There was a book I read a few years back that profiled a lot of the mass shooters. The biggest common denominator, on top of other mental issues, were diagnoses or at least major symptoms consistent with paranoid schizophrenia.

Which isn't to say that you're wrong, but that to go from what you said to "shooting up a big group of people" usually requires an additional fuel on the fire.

i can't disagree with anything offered here, and can't see any points of contention with my own... the basis is 'these people' who do these things are 'easier' to profile... especially (wait for it) "after" the fact.  

"before" the fact, they're all over the place when attempting to profile... school kids not so much, but the lone gunman could literally be anyone and until those dots are connected it's hard to predict... after the fact, hindsight- easy.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 15, 2023, 04:12:32 PM

profile of mental health issues and other violent issues in the past

and can still pass the background check and purchase a firearm?

I suppose the criteria is different in every state, maybe different in neighboring counties

is there room for judgement on the issue, such as an NFL Ref calling holding?

In Iowa, a felony conviction will ban someone from possessing a fire arm, until they are pardoned by the Governor.

I'm just wondering what else might get your permit denied?  things that are not felonies?

domestic violence?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2023, 04:20:52 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 03:46:25 PM

Huh?

On the one hand, that summation was exactly what I’d expect. On the other, when I clicked the link, the locations were at least interesting.

I like that I live in one of those places (#9). I think you'd like it here, to be honest.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 15, 2023, 04:23:57 PM

any kind of violent crime will cost you the ability to gain concealed carry permit here in NC... domestic a big one... history of mental health issues... history of and certainly current psych drugs... history or drinking or drug problems... 

it's based on Sheriffs interpretation... some of which will keep a former serviceman who 'may' be suffering from undiagnosed PTSD to others who straight up say PTSD meets the psych concern threshold, and others who don't include it at all.  it comes down to the sheriff you signs each and every one of them in this state, or who appoints someone to do so- their discretion... 

and then there is the 2A which rightfully points out that is a restriction which was expressly ensured no matter what.  

and then there is interpretation up to whoever is reading the law or ordinance... 

then there are lawyers who tell you what the law really means, and how they plan on enforcing or exploiting it via some loophole.  

meanwhile, and statistically speaking, very few guns are used in violent crimes as compared to the number of guns in circulation... however, a gun that is used in a violent crime stands a much and i mean MUCH better chance of being used in a crime again... sorta like, oh- i don't know- people.... at the risk of making up a statistic on the spot, i've read where violent crime is done by a small percentage of the population, and it usually is or will be repeat offenders... meaning most people are good or at least respectful of each other, while a much smaller percentage aren't- and are responsible for something like 95% of the violent crimes... over and over.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 15, 2023, 04:32:52 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 01:25:45 PM

Because the government doesn’t want you carrying your gun non-visibly unless they let you do so.

Interestingly, other states basically outlaw open carry in the vast majority of cases.

35 states allow open carry ( although the rules can differ), 7 states require a permit for open carry, and it is prohibited in 5 states- including Florida. 

https://wisevoter.com/state-rankings/open-carry-states/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 15, 2023, 04:40:08 PM

There is a bill being kicked around in Florida that will allow those with legally registered guns to conceal and carry without additional permit, and if passed would be the 25th state to do so.  


For me- I don’t often feel the need to carry- I keep it in my house.  But for whatever reason- I like the idea of more legal gun owners carrying as opposed to less.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2023, 04:47:48 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 15, 2023, 04:40:08 PM

There is a bill being kicked around in Florida that will allow those with legally registered guns to conceal and carry without additional permit, and if passed would be the 25th state to do so. 


For me- I don’t often feel the need to carry- I keep it in my house.  But for whatever reason- I like the idea of more legal gun owners carrying as opposed to less. 

I kinda feel the same way. My wife and I discussed it last week. We have our permits and would prefer that others get them too. 

I have not read the bill. Have you?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 15, 2023, 04:53:55 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2023, 04:47:48 PM

I kinda feel the same way. My wife and I discussed it last week. We have our permits and would prefer that others get them too.

I have not read the bill. Have you?

No it is still in Commitee.  I do know it has provisions in added by Law Enforcement which would create a portal for both student behavioral threats, as and a statewide portal to report all possible threats- and it would allow school district employees to carry on campus. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2023, 04:56:38 PM

What about background checks? Is that in there?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 05:01:43 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2023, 04:20:52 PM

I like that I live in one of those places (#9). I think you'd like it here, to be honest.

I bet I would too. I remember going to a friend‘s parents‘ lake house a few years back, and thought “Man, this well to do retired life seems pretty peachy.”

Some of those are very random. Winston-Salem is nice, but I don’t think it’s THAT nice. I was unimpressed by Greensboro/High Point. Oshkosh and Neenah are what they are. I get Myrtle Beach to a degree, thought actual Myrtle Beach is pretty gross.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 05:04:47 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 15, 2023, 04:40:08 PM

There is a bill being kicked around in Florida that will allow those with legally registered guns to conceal and carry without additional permit, and if passed would be the 25th state to do so. 


For me- I don’t often feel the need to carry- I keep it in my house.  But for whatever reason- I like the idea of more legal gun owners carrying as opposed to less. 

When you say more legal gun owners, how do you mean?

Am I reading it correctly as “more people have to go through some kind of process”? Or something else.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 15, 2023, 05:08:56 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 05:04:47 PM

When you say more legal gun owners, how do you mean?

Am I reading it correctly as “more people have to go through some kind of process”? Or something else.

Yes- do you still have to go through a background check and training to get a permit to purchase a weapon.

But in order to carry that weapon concealed in Florida you have to go through even more administrative things and this bill would eliminate that step. In other words if you have legally purchased and registered your weapon and gone through all the checks and balances you would no longer need a second permit to carry concealed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 05:11:07 PM

I once dated someone whose dad insisted on her keeping a piece in her car. I bet that’s illegal in some states, and I bet it was not illegal in the state where we were living (it’s often a bad idea, but that’s another matter). 

Were together for more than two years and I never actually saw it. Only time firearms ever came up were one time I was at her parents house when she was housesitting and at about three in the morning we heard noise coming from one of the upstairs rooms. 

Based on how the house was built, it’s basically impossible for it to be an actual intruder. But She had anxiety up the yin Yang, so up we went with a gun and a flashlight. Turned out some critter got in through a hole in the roof, scratched on the floor a little bit and then left. Happy I had flex scheduling and could sleep in the next day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 05:11:37 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 15, 2023, 05:08:56 PM

Yes- do you still have to go through a background check and training to get a permit to purchase a weapon.

But in order to carry that weapon concealed in Florida you have to go through even more administrative things and this bill would eliminate that step. In other words if you have legally purchased and registered your weapon and gone through all the checks and balances you would no longer need a second permit to carry concealed.

Gotcha. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 15, 2023, 05:12:28 PM

I like this because the overwhelming majority of people, and gun owners, are law abiding.  They just want to protect themselves. 

This will have little to no effect on those who purchase and carry illegally- and commit the overwhelming majority of violent crimes.  Those people will just have more folks around them who are able to defend themselves.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on February 15, 2023, 05:52:41 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 15, 2023, 01:36:39 PM

more then 30 states allow open carry

AZ allows both open and concealed without a permit

I carried my gun in my car for years until I got remarried. Wife didn't like it in the car.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 15, 2023, 06:19:11 PM

I wear one of my Colt 45 wheel guns in a holster on my hip at all times, and put another of my handguns into each kid's lunchbox as they head off to school each day.

Yippee ki-yay

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 15, 2023, 06:19:29 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on February 15, 2023, 05:52:41 PM

AZ allows both open and concealed without a permit

I carried my gun in my car for years until I got remarried. Wife didn't like it in the car.

My gun never leaves the house but if I did carry it I would conceal

Why tip off a bad guy youre armed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 15, 2023, 06:21:33 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 15, 2023, 06:19:11 PM

I wear one of my Colt 45 wheel guns in a holster on my hip at all times, and put another of my handguns into each kid's lunchbox as they head off to school each day.

Yippee ki-yay

😂😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 06:23:50 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 15, 2023, 06:19:11 PM

I wear one of my Colt 45 wheel guns in a holster on my hip at all times, and put another of my handguns into each kid's lunchbox as they head off to school each day.

Yippee ki-yay

The children must learn to eat guns. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 15, 2023, 06:25:20 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 15, 2023, 06:19:11 PM

I wear one of my Colt 45 wheel guns in a holster on my hip at all times, and put another of my handguns into each kid's lunchbox as they head off to school each day.

Yippee ki-yay

My brother has at least 3 guns hidden in his house

Hes a former marine and also has a very big german shapherd

he likes to feel safe

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 15, 2023, 06:30:19 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 06:23:50 PM

The children must learn to eat guns.

Let them eat cake.

Or pistols.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SFBadger96 on February 15, 2023, 08:09:43 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on February 15, 2023, 03:54:00 PM

our contract with society is pretty clear and neat- it's complicated by those who live between the letter of the law and the spirit- who we call lawyers... they beg the question when it supports their agenda, and then they stand tall and proclaim the letter of the law when it benefits their cause- all the while, laws and the languages of have exhausted their structure to the best of the drafters ability.... just for some group of robe wearers to come along years after the law was enacted to question what 'those effers really meant"....

Everyone loves to hate on lawyers...

until they need one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 15, 2023, 08:48:56 PM

Another tough one

https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/status/1626027939551752192?t=cM7_NcnVVOBLH6zederA0w&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 15, 2023, 11:33:04 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 15, 2023, 06:19:29 PM

My gun never leaves the house but if I did carry it I would conceal

Why tip off a bad guy youre armed

As a deterrent.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 15, 2023, 11:34:26 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 15, 2023, 06:25:20 PM

My brother has at least 3 guns hidden in his house

Hes a former marine and also has a very big german shapherd

he likes to feel safe

I thought all a former marine would need is his mitts.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 15, 2023, 11:36:17 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 15, 2023, 11:33:04 PM

As a deterrent. 

not my job Im not the police

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 15, 2023, 11:36:46 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 15, 2023, 11:34:26 PM

I thought all a former marine would need is his mitts. 

he doesnt play fair

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 15, 2023, 11:56:43 PM

To this day I work with police- very much informal nowadays, but still enjoy having inside line on happenings.

I live on the coast and in a middle class neighborhood of mostly retired folks. It's quiet mostly and with the exception of three problems, it's safe. Each of those problems were inherited- literally- the scum bags who live nearby inherited their properties from well to do parents who passed.  It's a trend- of you inherit a property here you're most likely a drug dealing scum bag... which is the case. 

One daughter is 24 and gone from the nest, now.  The other turns 10 in a couple weeks.  If one was any younger and the other any older they'd be targets for the scumbags.  If that was the case I'd already cleared them out with the law or ipposing it.  As it is, these jackasses outright own the property and are dug in like tics.  On the bright side, I know almost all the neighbors as we share information and keep watch because of these twits. 

Yeah. I'm the guy who lived here as a single guy not too long ago and would pop corn and watch from the driveway in begrudged amusement before family came about... but now? 

When there are drugs and money present it's not a matter of if it's a matter of when someone comes to get them both.  My life is invested here- I came from nothing and this is what I chose to spend it on, and some scum bag free loader living off trusts and slinging drugs isn't going to chase me off my bone.  I spent near a half mil for this place when it's all said and done... theyre literally just here because their mom or pop was a good person who left them something they didn't deserve.

You're damn right I'm armed and there are stashes in several places.  For you types who live behind gates and in areas who don't have to worry about such things, for once consider those not as privileged with your smart ass comments. 

And... for the record.. my wife is an attorney and a damn good one which means I'm effed to hell if that train ever leaves the tracks- but more meant to offer I've not a thing against attorneys...... but I do have something against a world where they're needed as often as they are.  That's not a world I'd want to live in, but it's what we got. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 16, 2023, 12:50:03 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 15, 2023, 11:36:17 PM

not my job Im not the police

If you're going to carry anyway.......

jfc...nevermind

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 16, 2023, 07:32:48 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 15, 2023, 01:41:35 PM

Was there a history of mental issues or violence?

Again, if we want to give the government much broader discretion with denying folks this particular constitutional right, that’s a chat to have. But in our modern society, with how much people say weird stuff, the externalities would likely brush against the wishes of many firearm owners. (And be a struggle to apply evenly)

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/michigan/2023/02/15/state-federal-laws-provided-path-for-msu-gunman-anthony-mcrae-to-own-firearm-after-gun-conviction/69907496007/?utm_source=pdtn-DailyBriefing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-briefing&utm_term=Content%20List%20-%20Stacking%20-%20optimized&utm_content=1008DN-E-NLETTER65

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2023, 07:58:48 AM

^^^ Pay wall, HB.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on February 16, 2023, 08:27:48 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 16, 2023, 12:50:03 AM

If you're going to carry anyway.......

jfc...nevermind

Most people carry to defend themselves and their family if they find themselves in a bad situation. If they do, the last thing you want to do is stand out as the first person that some mad man targets. Open carrying does just that. 

Think about it. If you are intent upon shooting as many people as possible, why would not NOT take out the ones that would be your biggest deterrent? 

Also, when you open carry, you are advertising that you have a weapon and keeping it in a place that is easily accessible to someone that may decide they would like to take it from you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2023, 09:08:24 AM

^^^ Bingo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2023, 09:08:53 AM

In other news...

Time to step down.

Feinstein Asked Her Staff About Votes She Had Cast on the Senate Floor (businessinsider.com) (https://www.businessinsider.com/feinstein-asked-staff-about-votes-she-cast-on-senate-floor-2023-2)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 16, 2023, 09:19:53 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on February 14, 2023, 07:19:12 AM

So, it took two sidewinder missiles at about $472,000 each to pop that balloon over Lake Huron.  Why don't they use their 20mm canon?


https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-military-first-shot-unknown-octagonal-object-lake-huron-missed (https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-military-first-shot-unknown-octagonal-object-lake-huron-missed)

US fighter jets fired five heat-seeking AIM-9X Sidewinder missile to take down four aerial objects floating high over U.S. and Canadian airspace between Feb. 4 and Feb. 12, U.S. officials said. The unidentified floating octagon shot down over Lake Huron in upper Michigan required two Sidewinders, because the first one failed to detect the object, "did not fuse," and crashed "harmlessly" into Lake Huron, U.S. officials said Tuesday. 

The military and Biden administration got some blowback for using $400,000 Sidewinders to take down four balloons, three of which likely turned out to be "benign" objects. But "the military's ability to respond to balloons and similar craft is constrained by physics and the capabilities of current weapons," The Washington Post reports, and you can't really pop a giant balloon with gunfire at 40,000 feet.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/why-the-u-s-used-missiles-not-cheap-bullets-to-shoot-down-chinese-balloon-3-unidentified-objects/ar-AA17w5rP?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=c68ed2f67e69486d9dd07a7dfc1cbdf2
 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/why-the-u-s-used-missiles-not-cheap-bullets-to-shoot-down-chinese-balloon-3-unidentified-objects/ar-AA17w5rP?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=c68ed2f67e69486d9dd07a7dfc1cbdf2)
"You can fill a balloon full of bullet holes, and it's going to stay at altitude," David Deptula, a retired Air Force lieutenant general and fighter pilot, tells the Post. The air pressure that high up doesn't allow helium to freely escape through small holes, even if fighter jets flying by at hundreds of miles per hour can riddle the near-stationary balloon with bullets.

Canada figured that out the hard way in 1998, when it tried to bring down a giant runaway weather balloon launched from Saskatchewan to measure ozone levels, CBC News recalled right after the Chinese spy balloon incident. "Canadian CF-18 fighter jet pilots caught up with the balloon off the coast of Newfoundland and took aim, firing more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition at it. But the balloon survived the assault, soldiering on over the North Atlantic," floating above British, Norwegian, and Russian airspace before finally crashing in Finland.

The British press roasted Canada's Air Force pilots for failing to pop the rogue balloon, but then British and U.S. pilots also tried to shoot it down and failed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 16, 2023, 11:39:25 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2023, 09:08:53 AM

In other news...

Time to step down.

Feinstein Asked Her Staff About Votes She Had Cast on the Senate Floor (businessinsider.com) (https://www.businessinsider.com/feinstein-asked-staff-about-votes-she-cast-on-senate-floor-2023-2)

Absolutely. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 16, 2023, 11:41:54 AM

Oops

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 16, 2023, 11:50:52 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 16, 2023, 07:32:48 AM

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/michigan/2023/02/15/state-federal-laws-provided-path-for-msu-gunman-anthony-mcrae-to-own-firearm-after-gun-conviction/69907496007/?utm_source=pdtn-DailyBriefing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-briefing&utm_term=Content%20List%20-%20Stacking%20-%20optimized&utm_content=1008DN-E-NLETTER65

Is the gist of this coming back to the 2019 thing? Or something else?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 16, 2023, 12:10:32 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 16, 2023, 11:50:52 AM

Is the gist of this coming back to the 2019 thing? Or something else?

Yes.  Just kind of explaining how he was able to purchase a gun given the past arrest. Basically since it was pleaded down from felony to misdemeanor.  But- they still don’t know if he purchased it legally 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SFBadger96 on February 16, 2023, 12:18:51 PM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on February 15, 2023, 11:56:43 PM

And... for the record.. my wife is an attorney and a damn good one which means I'm effed to hell if that train ever leaves the tracks- but more meant to offer I've not a thing against attorneys...... but I do have something against a world where they're needed as often as they are.  That's not a world I'd want to live in, but it's what we got. 

The day everyone respects each other and tries to resolve their differences reasonably is the day your wife and I are out of work.



I'm not worried about paying my mortgage. ~???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 16, 2023, 12:46:02 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 16, 2023, 12:10:32 PM

Yes.  Just kind of explaining how he was able to purchase a gun given the past arrest. Basically since it was pleaded down from felony to misdemeanor.  But- they still don’t know if he purchased it legally

Yeah, I mean, without some of the details to pick over, it seems like a case of SOP.

Most charges are pled down. In that case, it doesn’t seem like there was a ton of reason to pick the guy out for different treatment three years ago. The felony he committed is logically only a felony because of a pretty heavy gun control approach. If we were more aggressive in that kind of thing, I’m betting it ends in a notable limitation of firearm rights, which maybe is an outcome we want.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 16, 2023, 12:49:22 PM

more people are wanting it than ever before

and more people are moving closer to wanting it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 16, 2023, 01:07:36 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 16, 2023, 12:49:22 PM

more people are wanting it than ever before

and more people are moving closer to wanting it

And here I sit, deathly ambivalent

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 16, 2023, 01:11:43 PM

I'm not concerned

if/when it happens, I don't think it will change much.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 16, 2023, 01:40:21 PM

They want more gun laws, but they don't want to enforce the ones already on the books. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 16, 2023, 02:16:59 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 16, 2023, 12:46:02 PM

Yeah, I mean, without some of the details to pick over, it seems like a case of SOP.

Most charges are pled down. In that case, it doesn’t seem like there was a ton of reason to pick the guy out for different treatment three years ago. The felony he committed is logically only a felony because of a pretty heavy gun control approach. If we were more aggressive in that kind of thing, I’m betting it ends in a notable limitation of firearm rights, which maybe is an outcome we want.

And I think sometimes the charges as filed are merely the first point in the prosecution's negotiation. And in most negotiations, you often start out with more than you think you can get in order to hope that you end up getting what you really want. 


https://academicworks.cuny.edu/gc_etds/4607/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 16, 2023, 02:51:25 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 16, 2023, 02:16:59 PM

And I think sometimes the charges as filed are merely the first point in the prosecution's negotiation. And in most negotiations, you often start out with more than you think you can get in order to hope that you end up getting what you really want.


https://academicworks.cuny.edu/gc_etds/4607/

This is true. Though probably not applicable in this case.

There’s also a question of the “felony” element. As we’ve talked about, a felony comes with considerable life burdens. You’d hope that we as a society would be judicious with such a thing.

Most people who catch this charge on the first try probably don’t end up shooting you a lot of people. It’s probably a better social outcome for their lives not to be significantly impaired going forward, even if the outlier gets missed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 16, 2023, 04:02:54 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 16, 2023, 11:39:25 AM

Absolutely.

This one too.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/sen-john-fetterman-is-hospitalized-for-depression-6ed7ab89?st=4g76137sd8qvlea&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 17, 2023, 10:37:44 AM

Some great deals here, for those who can do last-minute cruises. I'd do Miami to the Canaries for sure, but we have out of towners coming down. 


Book a Luxury Azamara Cruise | Azamara (https://www.azamara.com/find-a-journey?ecid=em_24129953&rid=1543346945&emsc=USA_PG_EXPL_MH_NOTBKFUTURE&emct=S&lnkid=https%3a%2f%2fwww.azamara.com%2ffind-a-journey%23sort%3ddate-asc%3futm_source%3det_consumer_na%26utm_source%3det_consumer_na%26utm_medium%3demail%26utm_campaign%3dpromo_na_021723_pgpr_eml_nbk_lmv#sort=date-asc)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 17, 2023, 10:58:19 AM

Heh, looking at that list of cruises... Absolute NO with the South Africa cruise. South Africa, Russia and China are doing war games at sea during that one. Jeez.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 17, 2023, 11:40:18 AM

and pirates

hence the price for last minute

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 17, 2023, 02:06:54 PM

Staff on a cruise ship are armed with some pretty nice stuff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 17, 2023, 03:29:59 PM

hah, head of security on a cruise ship.....

fun job

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 18, 2023, 11:20:15 AM

maritime law is some tricky stuff- and disallows things you'd think obvious when it comes to defense.

an logistics outfit who regularly sailed around the horn of Africa was trying to hire guys of my ilk (at the time) to provide security against pirates... their intended tactics were highly illegal and so was the weaponry... and if there was conflict 'we' would have been on our own insofar as legally- but the pay was off the charts high compared to any other private defense contractor stuff- and this was when Afghanistan and Iraq were in full swing- and you were only onboard those vessels for a brief portion of their passing.  If i recall what happened clearly, they ended up hiring a russian outfit... the penalty for error was too much for American guys to do it- engaging pirates wasn't the problem.. facing int'l maritime law after the fact, was.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 18, 2023, 12:00:54 PM

funhaters

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 18, 2023, 12:06:51 PM

Hmmph.  It's not like the pirates can go to the UN and bitch about how you used illegal ways of preventing their piracy.  

When questioned, you simply used the water cannons very efficiently, no?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on February 18, 2023, 10:16:14 PM

International maritime law is strange and often counterintuitive.  If those pirates boarded a commercial vessel and are dispatched by the crew of that vessel who have no authority to enforce laws and who can't prove beyond doubt they felt their lives were in immediate and real threat, that crew is guilty of murder.  If they used weapons with capability to kill by design, that further incriminates them.  This is why many vessels that sail dangerous waters have forms of non lethal force.  The Somali pirates have means to counter those in their relative sophistication. 

If a int'l recognized law enforcement is on board, that changes things, but the weaponry rules still exist.  It is much weirder than even this. And.... few practice it anymore which means those who do have the upper hand when they bring suit against shipping companies.  If these rules didn't exist, Somali pirates would be a joke and nowhere near a threat.  Because they exist the pirates exist.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 19, 2023, 12:42:48 AM

Meh.

I murdered some pirates, nearby sovereign entity.
You're welcome.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 19, 2023, 08:26:11 AM

Just saw on the news that Jimmy Carter has chosen home hospice rather than undergo medical treatments.

Say what you will about the job he did. 

At the same time, nobody, and I mean nobody, can deny he wasn't an excellent person.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 19, 2023, 09:25:37 AM

For @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) and @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) 

Best Destinations for Travelers Who Hate People (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/tripideas/best-destinations-for-travelers-who-hate-people/ss-AA17FFKI?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=30f1af78fb894d01ac095a956c6a39c0)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 19, 2023, 11:14:06 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 19, 2023, 09:25:37 AM

For @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) and @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19)

Best Destinations for Travelers Who Hate People (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/tripideas/best-destinations-for-travelers-who-hate-people/ss-AA17FFKI?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=30f1af78fb894d01ac095a956c6a39c0)

Ha!  Perfect.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 19, 2023, 11:15:08 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 19, 2023, 08:26:11 AM

Just saw on the news that Jimmy Carter has chosen home hospice rather than undergo medical treatments.

Say what you will about the job he did.

At the same time, nobody, and I mean nobody, can deny he wasn't an excellent person.

Agree he was an excellent person. Hope he and his family can find some comfort and peace.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 19, 2023, 11:24:07 AM

They are who we thought they were.
(FoxNews)
.
I'll just leave it at that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 19, 2023, 11:55:42 AM

Well okay then.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 19, 2023, 12:01:38 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 19, 2023, 08:26:11 AM

Just saw on the news that Jimmy Carter has chosen home hospice rather than undergo medical treatments.

Say what you will about the job he did.

At the same time, nobody, and I mean nobody, can deny he wasn't an excellent person.

98 years and he was trying to help folks right up til basically the end.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2023, 05:39:15 PM

for Utee and other fans or Star Wars...........

The hit burlesque parody The Empire Strips Back… is here at last! Making its way to San Diego, this previously sold-out experience drops classic sci-fi characters into the world of burlesque. Don’t miss out!

🚨 Due to popular demand, Star Wars hit burlesque parody ‘The Empire Strips Back’ has extended its stay in San Diego through April! 🚨


https://feverup.com/m/122590?utm_source=google&utm_medium=dc&utm_campaign=122590_san&gclid=Cj0KCQiArsefBhCbARIsAP98hXRMASzR-uTEaY5QmgrWthh15R91nMAuvxCTYrR9rz_MugKbJhP0FsEaAvs7EALw_wcB (https://feverup.com/m/122590?utm_source=google&utm_medium=dc&utm_campaign=122590_san&gclid=Cj0KCQiArsefBhCbARIsAP98hXRMASzR-uTEaY5QmgrWthh15R91nMAuvxCTYrR9rz_MugKbJhP0FsEaAvs7EALw_wcB)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 19, 2023, 06:03:46 PM

Princess Leia in a gold bikini?   (or less?)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 19, 2023, 06:09:58 PM

78.6 miles, door to door, from my house. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2023, 06:15:05 PM

even closer from San Clemente

I'll be here until Wednesday morning, come on down

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 19, 2023, 06:58:45 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 19, 2023, 06:15:05 PM

even closer from San Clemente

I'll be here until Wednesday morning, come on down

You're part of the burlesque parody? Are you a Sexy Stormtrooper? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 19, 2023, 07:06:17 PM

Actual photo of FF:

(https://i.imgur.com/WJv22hZ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2023, 07:14:14 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 19, 2023, 06:58:45 PM

You're part of the burlesque parody? Are you a Sexy Stormtrooper?

you got the sexy part correct

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 20, 2023, 08:15:46 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 19, 2023, 11:55:42 AM

Well okay then.

Maybe he's mad about their Don Lemon coverage?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 20, 2023, 08:28:37 AM

He might simply just be one of those menstruating men that the mediots and mainstream politicians have been warning us about. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 20, 2023, 02:05:11 PM

https://youtu.be/WxXepkdJHko

Rita's weekly reality check

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 20, 2023, 06:58:16 PM

Weather didn't suck today...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 21, 2023, 10:46:54 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/pN1OGeq.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2023, 06:42:17 AM

Visited Petra today 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 22, 2023, 08:09:33 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 22, 2023, 06:42:17 AM

Visited Petra today

Bus ride?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 23, 2023, 10:28:08 AM

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/biden-latest-whack-suburbs-change-your-neighborhood-worse

Interesting social engineering attempt.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on February 23, 2023, 10:53:41 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 19, 2023, 07:06:17 PM

Actual photo of FF:

(https://i.imgur.com/WJv22hZ.png)

The danger in dressing like that is obviously some dude might accost you, and being a stormtrooper, her aim with her weapon is shit.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 23, 2023, 08:09:32 PM

no wonder any shot by the good guys always kills a stormtrooper

their armor is limited

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 23, 2023, 08:09:42 PM

Boanthropy is a psychological disorder where people think they're cows.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2023, 05:58:58 AM

Luxor today

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2023, 06:00:16 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/YSh0ODQ.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2023, 06:01:03 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/A3b8Yd7.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 24, 2023, 11:22:46 AM

Don't know about the rest of you but Friday Fish Fries are a thing during Lent up here on the North Coast/Great Lakes leading up to Easter/Spring 😎😍

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on February 24, 2023, 11:24:26 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 24, 2023, 11:22:46 AM

Don't know about the rest of you but Friday Fish Fries are a thing during Lent up here on the North Coast/Great Lakes leading up to Easter/Spring 😎😍

Same here in MN. Thank the Bavarian Catholic influence.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 24, 2023, 11:47:50 AM

along with the Irish,Italians Czechs, Hungarians, Lithuanians, Poles, Slovaks.......VFWs,American Legions 
:singing:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 24, 2023, 02:01:00 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 24, 2023, 11:22:46 AM

Don't know about the rest of you but Friday Fish Fries are a thing during Lent up here on the North Coast/Great Lakes leading up to Easter/Spring 😎😍

Yup we have them here as well.

And there's also one local hamburger chain that offers fried catfish every Friday throughout the year, and it's some of the best catfish in town.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 24, 2023, 06:03:43 PM

Loops in C-Bus any good?

https://www.loopsgoodfood.com/ (https://www.loopsgoodfood.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 24, 2023, 06:20:43 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 24, 2023, 11:22:46 AM

Don't know about the rest of you but Friday Fish Fries are a thing during Lent up here on the North Coast/Great Lakes leading up to Easter/Spring 😎😍

So Catholics mostly just fish-fry on Fridays?  
I guess the protestants got it right by having them any old time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 24, 2023, 06:23:59 PM

I eat fish when it's fresh

day of the week don't matter

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 24, 2023, 07:41:33 PM

It's the caviar lobby. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 24, 2023, 07:45:25 PM

I only eat eggs before noon

even fish eggs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 24, 2023, 07:48:45 PM

Would you try a Spiny Echidna egg omelette? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 24, 2023, 08:08:19 PM

definitely not suitable for eating

as far as I know

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 24, 2023, 08:53:47 PM

It's the other egg-laying mammal aside from the duck-billed platypus. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 24, 2023, 10:11:01 PM

The top five oil companies based in the West set new earning records in 2022, all at least doubling their 2021 profits to achieve combined earnings of nearly $200 billion. ExxonMobil reported the highest profits of any single company at almost $56 billion. These earnings come in the wake of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. The war has impacted the price of various commodities, especially oil, and strained an already rising inflation rate.

Americans saw gas prices reach their peak in mid-June with a national average of $5 per gallon according to the American Automobile Association. It would take another two months before prices fell below $4 a gallon. The decision to prioritize shareholder interests has drawn criticism from both the Biden administration and other Democrats.

"They invested too little of that profit to increase domestic production and keep gas prices down," President Biden said during the State of the Union address on Feb. 7. "Instead, they used those record profits to buy back their own stock, rewarding their CEOs and shareholders."


Profits during both 2021 and 2022 came after losses in 2020 tied to the pandemic. When the lockdowns, social restrictions, and trend toward remote work drastically shifted people's transportation habits, oil traders were at times paying buyers to take barrels from them.

Historically, times of low oil supply and subsequent surging prices have led companies to increase drilling and restock the market. These sudden shifts in supply have also led to crashes in oil prices, as exemplified by the energy crises of the 1970s, which later culminated in the 1980s oil glut and a sustained collapse in oil demand that lasted nearly a decade. Concurrently, vehicles with better fuel economy entered the market and newly discovered oil fields meant demand didn't keep up with production increases.

Oil companies have been careful not to recreate the boom and bust pattern, the lesson of 40 years ago remaining fresh in corporate consciousness, and that means they were slower to increase production even as gasoline prices surged to new heights. While 2022 profits more than doubled for most companies, the increase in year-over-year production grew at a much slower pace.

Exxon reported a 2.8% increase in global production of crude oil and other liquids, equal to 65,000 barrels per day. Chevron's year-end reports show global oil production stayed about even with last year, while BP said it reached its lowest production costs since 2006.


After pandemic losses, oil companies felt shareholder pressure to diversify their energy portfolios. Even Exxon, historically resistant to transitioning from oil and gas, made investments in the hydrogen and carbon capture space; however, record profits this year mean Big Oil has little incentive to increase its decidedly limited spending on clean energy. BP, which has struggled to climb out from under a significant debt load, is even backtracking on its carbon goals. After planning to cut emissions 30-35% by 2030, BP now says it will increase oil and gas production in 2023. In the immediate aftermath of the announcement, the company's stock price hit a near 4-year high.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 24, 2023, 11:32:59 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on February 24, 2023, 08:53:47 PM

It's the other egg-laying mammal aside from the duck-billed platypus.

Now those eggs make some omelets. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 25, 2023, 12:29:14 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 24, 2023, 11:32:59 PM

Now those eggs make some omelets.

(https://i.imgur.com/QkNg9qa.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 25, 2023, 06:30:55 AM

If an anteater and a porcupine had a kid... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2023, 05:47:41 AM

In Jerusalem now for lunch 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 27, 2023, 08:47:02 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2023, 05:47:41 AM

In Jerusalem now for lunch

Wonderful place. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 27, 2023, 09:14:52 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 27, 2023, 08:47:02 AM

Wonderful place.

I've never been. What makes it wonderful?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 27, 2023, 11:24:12 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 27, 2023, 09:14:52 AM

I've never been. What makes it wonderful?

Rich in history, great food/culture/things to do, plus a rare vibe that blends old and new. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 28, 2023, 01:10:10 PM

Gal Gadot?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 28, 2023, 01:17:34 PM

had to google search her
Obviously a Husker fan...........

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTgsYXBaI3gb4NpgypluiPz9dqkjLz-XkwkdQ&usqp=CAU)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2023, 03:59:12 AM

Cyprus today, not much Internet 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2023, 04:00:36 AM

Jerusalem crowded cramped commercial touristy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 01, 2023, 07:49:01 AM

What would you compare it with?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 01, 2023, 07:52:33 AM

Chicago is a little better today. Beetlejuice is out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2023, 08:14:26 AM

French Quarter with Arabs, did not like at all… Cyprus tour was excellent… Nazareth is pretty dirty as well, not nice.

Israel is quite advanced over Egypt 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 01, 2023, 08:16:05 AM

Ptable is an interactive display of the Periodic Table of Elements

https://ptable.com/#Properties (https://ptable.com/#Properties)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 01, 2023, 08:18:59 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 01, 2023, 08:14:26 AM

French Quarter with Arabs, did not like at all… Cyprus tour was excellent… Nazareth is pretty dirty as well, not nice.

Israel is quite advanced over Egypt

What city do ships dock there?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 01, 2023, 12:14:30 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 01, 2023, 07:52:33 AM

Chicago is a little better today. Beetlejuice is out.

Next stop....CNN

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 01, 2023, 05:21:47 PM

Interesting.

Finland begins building wall along Russia border (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/finland-begins-building-wall-along-russia-border/ar-AA186dML?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b79c04d1b7964c58ad18859362b2afa1&ei=11)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 01, 2023, 05:24:16 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 01, 2023, 07:52:33 AM

Chicago is a little better today. Beetlejuice is out.

(https://i.imgur.com/2Tqgntt.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 01, 2023, 07:26:34 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 01, 2023, 05:21:47 PM

Interesting.

Finland begins building wall along Russia border (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/finland-begins-building-wall-along-russia-border/ar-AA186dML?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b79c04d1b7964c58ad18859362b2afa1&ei=11)

they must be racists

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 02, 2023, 12:36:38 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 01, 2023, 07:26:34 PM

they must be racists

You're not good at jokes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 02, 2023, 01:23:07 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 02, 2023, 12:36:38 AM

You're not good at jokes.

come on man


thats some of my best stuff

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 02, 2023, 07:13:10 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 01, 2023, 05:24:16 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/2Tqgntt.png)

Lightfoot’s mayoral loss follows corporate exodus from Chicago led by Boeing, Citadel, Tyson Foods | Fox Business (https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/lightfoots-mayoral-loss-follows-corporate-exodus-led-by-boeing-citadel-tyson-foods)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 02, 2023, 08:48:15 AM

Heh. Irony.

NYC police want shoppers to remove masks before entering stores (yahoo.com) (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nyc-police-want-shoppers-remove-230315619.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 02, 2023, 08:57:40 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 02, 2023, 08:48:15 AM

Heh. Irony.

NYC police want shoppers to remove masks before entering stores (yahoo.com) (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nyc-police-want-shoppers-remove-230315619.html)

Big government just telling us what to do.

;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 02, 2023, 09:10:43 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 02, 2023, 08:57:40 AM

Big government just telling us what to do.

;)

Early on in the pandemic, I remember going with my wife to a bank, wearing a mask, and asking her if she ever thought you could go into a bank with a mask on, and not be rounded up by security.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 02, 2023, 09:13:41 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 02, 2023, 07:13:10 AM

Lightfoot’s mayoral loss follows corporate exodus from Chicago led by Boeing, Citadel, Tyson Foods | Fox Business (https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/lightfoots-mayoral-loss-follows-corporate-exodus-led-by-boeing-citadel-tyson-foods)

Cool.  I had no idea what you were talking about, I just like posting pictures of my Halloween decorations. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 02, 2023, 10:34:45 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 02, 2023, 09:10:43 AM

Early on in the pandemic, I remember going with my wife to a bank, wearing a mask, and asking her if she ever thought you could go into a bank with a mask on, and not be rounded up by security.

Until COVID, it was outright illegal to wear a mask in New Orleans on a day other than Fat Tuesday. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 02, 2023, 10:53:14 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 02, 2023, 09:10:43 AM

Early on in the pandemic, I remember going with my wife to a bank, wearing a mask, and asking her if she ever thought you could go into a bank with a mask on, and not be rounded up by security.

Back in the day when I still had a motorcycle, I was going into the bank and because I'd just parked the bike, was just starting to remove it as I entered the bank. I conducted my business, and was putting it back on as I exited the bank's doors.

At that point I was stopped by some nice policemen who had me wait a moment to ensure that the bank had not been robbed, because apparently someone called about seeing someone enter a bank wearing a motorcycle helmet.

(For any Gen Z readers out there, FYI we used to occasionally have to go INSIDE a bank to transact business. It's more than just a pretty building with an ATM out front.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 02, 2023, 09:04:53 PM

What are these ATM's you speak of

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2023, 02:19:31 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 01, 2023, 08:18:59 AM

What city do ships dock there?

Limassol

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2023, 02:21:07 AM

Finally off ship in Athens, was able to check in early at hotel.  Have internet now

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2023, 02:21:56 AM

The other Athens is nicer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 03, 2023, 07:13:15 AM

So how was the experience?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 03, 2023, 07:56:04 AM

https://codeforpittsburgh.github.io/fishfrymap/# (https://codeforpittsburgh.github.io/fishfrymap/#)

The fish fry, a long-established Friday staple during Lent, is roaring back from COVID with an assist from something decidedly newfangled: an interactive map built by local volunteer coders that points the way to scores of churches, fire halls and other places that offer battered and breaded seafood for the taking. In the process, the new Pittsburgh is helping point the way to the old.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 03, 2023, 08:13:18 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 03, 2023, 02:21:56 AM

The other Athens is nicer

You've been to Ohio University?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 03, 2023, 08:16:27 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 03, 2023, 07:56:04 AM

https://codeforpittsburgh.github.io/fishfrymap/# (https://codeforpittsburgh.github.io/fishfrymap/#)

The fish fry, a long-established Friday staple during Lent, is roaring back from COVID with an assist from something decidedly newfangled: an interactive map built by local volunteer coders that points the way to scores of churches, fire halls and other places that offer battered and breaded seafood for the taking. In the process, the new Pittsburgh is helping point the way to the old.

They're late N.E. Ohio FFs were up/running full go a year ago. even 2 yrs ago carry out. Of course we have perch/walleye right off shore

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 03, 2023, 08:22:03 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 03, 2023, 08:16:27 AM

They're late N.E. Ohio FFs were up/running full go a year ago. even 2 yrs ago carry out. Of course we have perch/walleye right off shore

My favorite Friday night perch platter, never took a rest during Covid. They stayed open the entire time with never a mask in site. The place has very limited indoor seating, but during the warmer months it triples in size due to the outdoor seating. I would be heading there tonight, but some friends called and we are going to a different establishment for their Perch platter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 03, 2023, 08:37:08 AM

I'm taking clients here tonight

https://www.archieswaeside.com/menu (https://www.archieswaeside.com/menu)

I'll be having something dry aged and bone-in

although, I've heard the seafood is good, never tried it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on March 03, 2023, 09:13:42 AM

I last had an "aged" steak in 1982.   The night and day after was rough.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 03, 2023, 09:21:45 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 03, 2023, 08:37:08 AM

I'm taking clients here tonight

https://www.archieswaeside.com/menu (https://www.archieswaeside.com/menu)

I'll be having something dry aged and bone-in

although, I've heard the seafood is good, never tried it

Man, steakhouses are cheap in IA. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 03, 2023, 09:39:33 AM

corn-fed beef just outside of town

this steakhouse stacks up with any in the country
James Beard winner and the owner was interviewed on Fox

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2023, 10:40:07 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/C6sO9hg.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2023, 10:42:07 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/Tbv22T6.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2023, 10:42:45 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/czSxPxo.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2023, 10:43:27 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/QGBHvh9.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2023, 10:44:26 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/wz7AuH8.jpg)

Lunch 13 Euro

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2023, 10:53:16 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/SHWqwVM.jpg)

We lucked out on weather 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2023, 10:54:11 AM

Cruise over, we were ready to do another week after 18 days aboard

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2023, 11:06:49 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/90Xibu8.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2023, 06:11:49 AM

Final day in Athens at museums 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2023, 06:12:47 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/nMe9ZRR.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 04, 2023, 10:37:02 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 03, 2023, 11:06:49 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/90Xibu8.jpg)

Do they not understand how to maintain their infrastructure??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2023, 08:42:54 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 28, 2023, 01:10:10 PM

Gal Gadot?

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/334529879_897959397991376_2636516758176753221_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=RCIfYO8VQLMAX9ZawP6&_nc_oc=AQk4wVbVPwzplfI1dGBz-ZRSB2OtCmxzLLMtEQNjpu5NOiekr4dmam0ltAfODiFkMf0&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfD_E_030N7Fc1koX01XdnkBAP_tyiZ-ro-v0IiZhCehvQ&oe=6408E922)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 05, 2023, 12:16:59 AM

WB had her and Margot Robbie, and still couldn't figure out how to make a marketable movie

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2023, 12:49:56 AM

At airport Athens for Istanbul then ATL

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2023, 08:05:13 AM

Quote from: ELA on March 05, 2023, 12:16:59 AM

WB had her and Margot Robbie, and still couldn't figure out how to make a marketable movie

obviously weren't using the correct camera angles

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on March 05, 2023, 10:29:29 PM

so I spent a week in Austin (Barton Creek really) and utee will be glad that i won't be relocating to Austin.   Nah, we had a great time (work related off site).    The UK guys in our crew got to experience a quick severe T storm, and some howling winds, even managed a round of golf w some rentals.    A small group of us busted out to feed our faces at Stiles Switch.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 05, 2023, 11:08:57 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 05, 2023, 08:05:13 AM

obviously weren't using the correct camera angles

I'll volunteer to reshoot 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 06, 2023, 08:52:16 AM

Quote from: MarqHusker on March 05, 2023, 10:29:29 PM

so I spent a week in Austin (Barton Creek really) and utee will be glad that i won't be relocating to Austin.  Nah, we had a great time (work related off site).    The UK guys in our crew got to experience a quick severe T storm, and some howling winds, even managed a round of golf w some rentals.    A small group of us busted out to feed our faces at Stiles Switch. 

stopped by Barton to look around    ..didn't get to play the courses

I little uppity for a poor dirt farmer 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 06, 2023, 04:24:23 PM

Quote from: ELA on March 05, 2023, 12:16:59 AM

WB had her and Margot Robbie, and still couldn't figure out how to make a marketable movie

The first WW did pretty well.

And throw Amber Heard in there as well, at least pre-trial-weirdness.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 06, 2023, 09:35:41 PM

Quote from: ELA on March 05, 2023, 12:16:59 AM

WB had her and Margot Robbie, and still couldn't figure out how to make a marketable movie

WB?
.
Anywho, just a brief love scene would do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 06, 2023, 10:26:42 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 06, 2023, 09:35:41 PM

WB?
.
Anywho, just a brief love scene would do.

Yeah I believe Warner Bros. is the studio that produces the major DC movies.

And if you're suggesting a scene between Gal Gadot and Margot Robbie, well, heck yeah!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 06, 2023, 10:27:24 PM

define brief

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 07, 2023, 12:49:21 AM

About 90 minutes, with some Sade song playing in the background.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2023, 03:11:06 AM

If you've ever drive in ATL and wondered why the road system downtown is at an angle, this is from 1964.  Those tracks to today are being entirely covered with "stuff".  We moved there inb 1964 from Augusta.  

(https://i.imgur.com/CKBMCvj.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 07, 2023, 07:41:59 AM

so the city sits north-south or the tracks?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 07, 2023, 07:50:29 AM

Underground Atlanta? 

(https://www.capitalanalyticsassociates.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/shutterstock_79364242-scaled.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2023, 08:05:52 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 07, 2023, 07:41:59 AM

so the city sits north-south or the tracks?

No, the downtown road grid is angled about 45° from NS because of the way the tracks ran back in the day.    And this isn't where "Underground" is at all, that place had its heyday and resisted myried attempts to revive it.


(https://i.imgur.com/vJVpbjS.png)
1892 map.  You can see the downtown streets at the angle.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 07, 2023, 08:17:22 AM

I blame the Railroad

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2023, 08:29:29 AM

I recently read a book about the history of this place from start to 1900 and was surprised how often the "city fathers" blamed the railroads for this and that.  The Egg Lobby also took considerable heat.

An amusing thing today is the highly successful "Beltline" is based on old RR corridors.  This thing has really reshaped a number of neighborhoods and gets so crowded on weekends I avoid it.

(https://i.imgur.com/1cfMLDT.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2023, 09:55:12 AM

We asked our cabin steward if he had been through the Suez Canal before and he said yes, during COVID.  The ship was in the Med and transited to return most of the workers to their home countries in India and the PI.  I thought this was interesting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2023, 12:43:07 AM

why I like Battlebots

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80uHA6SubWo

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2023, 10:12:09 AM

I woke up at 0330 worried about my taxes, so I got coffee and started plowing away.  And I discovered after filing I had mistyped my SS number by one digit, so return was rejected.  Easy fix fortunately.

I feared I'd get charged twice to file, which gets expensive as I file in two states now (last year for that).  Fortunately, I get a bit back (that was already withheld, so no boggee).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 09, 2023, 10:38:31 AM

I have not filed yet

might do it this wekkend

wont take long maybe 30 min pretty simple since I made no investments last year

That stopped when Brandon took office and with good reason

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2023, 10:40:48 AM

I have what I think of as simple taxes, but the returns ran 66 pages.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 09, 2023, 11:03:59 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 09, 2023, 10:40:48 AM

I have what I think of as simple taxes, but the returns ran 66 pages.

those arms deals can be complicated

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2023, 01:47:41 PM

Three-Row Pickup Trucks Are Going to Be a Thing (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a42417494/three-row-pickup-trucks-are-coming/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&fbclid=IwAR0I09QkS16n5yUpKoL6J12gUIlL9GAvLSsFhNnTJ_kRyoqGwV_X1NWpogM)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 09, 2023, 01:50:59 PM

not in my garage

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 09, 2023, 02:32:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 09, 2023, 01:47:41 PM

Three-Row Pickup Trucks Are Going to Be a Thing (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a42417494/three-row-pickup-trucks-are-coming/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&fbclid=IwAR0I09QkS16n5yUpKoL6J12gUIlL9GAvLSsFhNnTJ_kRyoqGwV_X1NWpogM)

Isn't that what Suburbans and Tahoes are for?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 09, 2023, 02:55:26 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 09, 2023, 02:32:27 PM

Isn't that what Suburbans and Tahoes are for?

(https://i.imgur.com/Fr3rFia.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 09, 2023, 03:19:09 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 09, 2023, 01:50:59 PM

not in my garage

Of course not. Even if you bought it, it ain't fittin' in a garage. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 09, 2023, 03:22:46 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 09, 2023, 10:38:31 AM

I have not filed yet

might do it this wekkend

wont take long maybe 30 min pretty simple since I made no investments last year

My company gives out stock, and considering how it's pretty locked down and how it's done since I joined up, been selling when I can. 

This is gonna be mildly annoying. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 09, 2023, 03:41:36 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 09, 2023, 03:19:09 PM

Of course not. Even if you bought it, it ain't fittin' in a garage.

Ed Zachery
gotta have room for the ice fishin shack behind my extended cab truck

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 09, 2023, 03:46:50 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 09, 2023, 03:22:46 PM

My company gives out stock, and considering how it's pretty locked down and how it's done since I joined up, been selling when I can.

This is gonna be mildly annoying.

Ain't that bad. When you sell, hopefully you are putting into a Roth?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 09, 2023, 07:05:34 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 09, 2023, 03:46:50 PM

Ain't that bad. When you sell, hopefully you are putting into a Roth?

Cash under the mattress is what I always say.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2023, 07:31:53 AM

Winds over 100 mph and Ts in the 20s.  I thought this photo was pretty neat, taken from the ISS (which is still there).

Snow, ice and wind put astronomy on pause atop Mauna Kea (hawaiinewsnow.com) (https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2023/03/09/snow-ice-wind-put-astronomy-pause-atop-mauna-kea/?fbclid=IwAR3b-Fm2gwNjNl-b4T0p7gx1MFDqrOv4oc7EyuRLmcWPcWLDpRKaD03spvk)


(https://i.imgur.com/uFovfzl.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2023, 08:44:18 AM

Room-Temperature Superconductor Discovery Meets With Resistance | Quanta Magazine (https://www.quantamagazine.org/room-temperature-superconductor-discovery-meets-with-resistance-20230308?fbclid=IwAR2ayoUaqJiqKyPYanPIf4hOo0hatu7xOPzdifhKkrbrnvvnhEa9OUsYeXQ)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 11, 2023, 07:44:14 AM

Trendy ‘new physics’: Humans love flattering realities to avoid the constraints of the real world | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/3894635-trendy-new-physics-humans-love-flattering-realities-to-avoid-the-constraints-of-the-real-world/)

Common sense is not common because humans have a deeply-rooted urge to promote an imagined reality that flatters their ego and cures the pains of their finite and vulnerable existence — limited by the physical reality that we all share. It is no secret that in addition to the commercial enterprises featured through headsets of virtual realities, religions and social cults — including astrology and ufology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ufology) — tap into the same human need.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 11, 2023, 08:45:18 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 09, 2023, 07:05:34 PM

Cash under the mattress is what I always say.

Nonbody does that anymore,Mason Jars - back yard

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 11, 2023, 08:48:11 AM

I did some IRA --> Roth conversion last year when the market was lowish.  This can be a good idea, but not if the market then goes even lower.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 11, 2023, 08:48:54 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 11, 2023, 07:44:14 AM

Trendy ‘new physics’: Humans love flattering realities to avoid the constraints of the real world | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/3894635-trendy-new-physics-humans-love-flattering-realities-to-avoid-the-constraints-of-the-real-world/)

I don't buy this Browns/Indians Guardians fans know what they're in for

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 11, 2023, 10:54:07 AM

daylight savings clock change tonight

set clocks forward 1 hour at 2AM

oh joy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 11, 2023, 11:54:42 AM

all the better for an afternoon round of golf!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2023, 12:05:39 PM

This is bad for a lot of reasons.

Iran-Saudi Pact Is Brokered by China, Leaving U.S. on Sidelines (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/iran-saudi-pact-is-brokered-by-china-leaving-u-s-on-sidelines/ar-AA18usRG?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=acb14b37833b424daad6237df2f831f1&ei=7)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 11, 2023, 12:37:07 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 11, 2023, 10:54:07 AM

daylight savings clock change tonight

set clocks forward 1 hour at 2AM

oh joy

Stupid farmers. (I know, it's not actually about farmers)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2023, 12:49:41 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 11, 2023, 12:37:07 PM

Stupid farmers. (I know, it's not actually about farmers)

Just change it now, and then leave it alone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 11, 2023, 12:57:50 PM

stoopid farmers know math...........

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/333263564_217413100741955_2537032313180898557_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=gcp8Mn-fjlAAX9dtGQC&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAKyBQBkBm1HoZ9Qm_jUbg10k4dmArOYVyZufUSSHg_GQ&oe=6410B619)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 11, 2023, 02:04:39 PM

We were out and about and a St. P Day parade happened, it was fairly entertaining, about two hours worth of the main drag being closed off.  They had Irish horses I've never before seen.


(https://i.imgur.com/6knldeS.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 11, 2023, 02:05:07 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/rYXnLzi.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 11, 2023, 02:05:15 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/B66IRC2.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 11, 2023, 02:06:40 PM

The neatest thing was the back end of the parade, they came through can picked up all the trash right away, which also served to block traffic.  (The white building left is the Federal Reserve Building which has a really nice museum.)

(https://i.imgur.com/KOopbwF.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 11, 2023, 02:07:11 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/EValAVD.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2023, 02:32:54 PM

A top real estate economist explains why a housing rebound is coming as rising sales and lack of supply look poised to lift home prices (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/a-top-real-estate-economist-explains-why-a-housing-rebound-is-coming-as-rising-sales-and-lack-of-supply-look-poised-to-lift-home-prices/ar-AA18ure4?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=5cdc7a50ba5649d3add63ba7092f2c12&ei=7)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 11, 2023, 02:39:47 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2023, 02:32:54 PM

A top real estate economist explains why a housing rebound is coming as rising sales and lack of supply look poised to lift home prices (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/a-top-real-estate-economist-explains-why-a-housing-rebound-is-coming-as-rising-sales-and-lack-of-supply-look-poised-to-lift-home-prices/ar-AA18ure4?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=5cdc7a50ba5649d3add63ba7092f2c12&ei=7)

Well that's interesting. I would like them to fall. Oh well. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2023, 04:58:04 PM

You need interest rates to fall, and you need developers to keep building new homes. Hopefully that all heats up again in 2025.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2023, 05:08:05 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2023, 02:32:54 PM

A top real estate economist explains why a housing rebound is coming as rising sales and lack of supply look poised to lift home prices (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/a-top-real-estate-economist-explains-why-a-housing-rebound-is-coming-as-rising-sales-and-lack-of-supply-look-poised-to-lift-home-prices/ar-AA18ure4?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=5cdc7a50ba5649d3add63ba7092f2c12&ei=7)

Consider the source. I don't think I've ever seen anyone from the National Association of Realtors predict a housing crash. Not even in 2007.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 11, 2023, 05:14:08 PM

One could evaluate such lies (misinformation) by looking at motivation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 11, 2023, 07:39:21 PM

The numbers are in, and they’re not good for Super Bowl LVII Producers.

Rihanna’s extra-woke halftime show got the worst ratings of any in the history of halftime shows.

Advertisers were counting on a windfall of views to make the record-breaking $140 million per 30 seconds of airtime worth it.

According to Nielsen, they fell way short.

“They were looking for a 14 market share,” said Nielson spokesman Joe Barron, “which would give them an 8 count 40 on the backend, meaning thirty million views per ten thousand live hits online.

They only hit a marginal m12, leaving no fewer than 16 counts unreported.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2023, 08:12:26 PM

What made her halftime show "extra-woke"? 

Honestly, I thought her show was terrible. It just missed on so many levels. 

But I didn't think there was anything "woke" about it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 11, 2023, 09:48:16 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2023, 08:12:26 PM

What made her halftime show "extra-woke"?

Honestly, I thought her show was terrible. It just missed on so many levels.

But I didn't think there was anything "woke" about it.

How do you mean?

(I didn't think it missed, but I was also eating and talking with folks and basically just thought 1. That lady is pregnant, right? and 2. Man, she has a lot of hit songs I know)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 11, 2023, 09:54:54 PM

I didn't realize she was pregnant
didn't recognize any of the songs
Didn't know it was "woke"

I'm old
and I really wasn't paying attention
figured it would be a waste of time

I've never had any interest in halftime shows
I'm interested in football

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 11, 2023, 11:04:30 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 11, 2023, 09:54:54 PM

I didn't realize she was pregnant
didn't recognize any of the songs
Didn't know it was "woke"

I'm old
and I really wasn't paying attention
figured it would be a waste of time

I've never had any interest in halftime shows
I'm interested in football

you read my mind

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2023, 11:45:52 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 11, 2023, 09:48:16 PM

How do you mean?

(I didn't think it missed, but I was also eating and talking with folks and basically just thought 1. That lady is pregnant, right? and 2. Man, she has a lot of hit songs I know)

She has a ton of hit songs. Which they teased in 30 second increments. Which in my opinion failed, because it would have been a better use of 15ish minutes to focus on 4-5 of her biggest hits, rather than 30 seconds of everything. 

I think the concept to begin was interesting with the high wire act. But everything after that was boring. There seemed to be a concept, but it never progressed from one thing to something else, so it got old 1/3 of the way through it. 

And I don't want to throw shade on a pregnant lady, but it seemed that it certainly reduced her mobility, which might be a problem for a show that has a heavy dance influence. But it also seemed like they didn't do anything to work around it. So her performance on the physical level was just flat. Again, I'm not blaming her, because she's pregnant, but they could have found a way to introduce other elements around her to make up for her lack of ability there. 

-------------

I think we've learned over the years that if you're going to have ONE performer, they sure as hell better knock it out of the park. She didn't. 

Last year was a different thing. It was pretty much a lifetime tribute to Dr Dre. Which meant that it included a bunch of artists that he worked with or produced, and you had a very good show with him, Snoop, Eminem, Mary J Blige, 50 Cent, and (although I don't know much about him) Kendrick Lamar. That show knocked it out of the park. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 11, 2023, 11:52:36 PM

I love a bunch of 40-70 year old dudes discussing a Rihanna halftime show.
We're not the target audience, friends.
As you were.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 11, 2023, 11:55:38 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2023, 08:12:26 PM

What made her halftime show "extra-woke"?

Honestly, I thought her show was terrible. It just missed on so many levels.

But I didn't think there was anything "woke" about it.

Anything he isn't into = woke

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 12, 2023, 12:11:56 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 11, 2023, 11:52:36 PM

I love a bunch of 40-70 year old dudes discussing a Rihanna halftime show.
We're not the target audience, friends.
As you were.

apparently the majority of the viewing audience wasnt either

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on March 12, 2023, 07:12:00 AM

Such old men.  Arguing about a month old performance regarding a woman none of us are likely remotely interested in on your average day. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 12, 2023, 07:16:33 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2023, 05:08:05 PM

Consider the source. I don't think I've ever seen anyone from the National Association of Realtors predict a housing crash. Not even in 2007.

Yes, they did. I did too. At that time all we did was residential work, and I knew we were in trouble.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 12, 2023, 07:25:32 AM

This bank failure thing hopefully doesn't cascade ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 12, 2023, 08:01:51 AM

SVB had all of its eggs in one basket. This is not Lehman Brothers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2023, 08:43:05 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 12, 2023, 12:11:56 AM

apparently the majority of the viewing audience wasnt either

the vast majority

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 12, 2023, 08:44:46 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/lqnVzFk.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2023, 08:47:43 AM

went with the Ranchero instead of the Cayman?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 12, 2023, 08:51:19 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/B7ByE3R.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 12, 2023, 09:43:07 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/clTDUVX.png)

1954 Mercury Montero

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 12, 2023, 12:57:33 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 12, 2023, 08:51:19 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/B7ByE3R.png)

I had to/chose to memorize this in 5th grade or middle school.  
Random.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 12, 2023, 01:03:27 PM

I still remember seeimg him on TV as he spoke at JFKs inaugural

really moving

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2023, 07:14:09 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/MiUZVvh.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2023, 09:52:34 AM

This might make some sense, thought I'm sure it's pricey.(https://i.imgur.com/W7U6Scc.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 13, 2023, 10:50:20 AM

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FqAX14eXgAAvIfn?format=jpg&name=small)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2023, 11:13:13 AM

"Great masses of people these days live out their lives in a dull and loveless stupor. Sensitive persons find our inartistic manner of existence oppressive and painful, and they withdraw from sight… I believe what we lack is joy. The ardor that a heightened awareness imparts to life, the conception of life as a happy thing, as a festival… But the high value put upon every minute of time, the idea of hurry-hurry as the most important objective of living, is unquestionably the most dangerous enemy of joy."--Herman Hesse

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2023, 11:25:51 AM

Timeline detailed for $5B downtown megaproject Centennial Yards | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/centennial-yards-downtown-development-new-timeline-images)

I'm not sure how well this will fly, currently downtown is a desert after 7 PM.  Maybe this changes things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 13, 2023, 12:03:06 PM

Will Wendy's chili w/beans be available in Texas ?

if so, will it be popular?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 13, 2023, 12:33:37 PM

Wolf Brand chili and Hormel chili both have options with beans for sale on Texas grocery store shelves.  I've never bought any of it but I assume someone does.

(probably California transplants or yankees)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2023, 12:44:38 PM

Chili from a can just sounds like a bad idea, to me, even without beans.

It could well taste just like the "chili" at Wendy's, I dunno, but that wouldn't be a positive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 13, 2023, 12:50:45 PM

Hopefully y’all are not worried about your bank deposits. 


  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2023, 12:52:52 PM

I was musing about that today as I have everything with Schwab.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 13, 2023, 01:27:47 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 13, 2023, 12:50:45 PM

Hopefully y’all are not worried about your bank deposits.


 

not in the least bit

I really doubt my small local bank is involved in such crappy practices

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2023, 02:46:56 PM

Damages in the Dominion lawsuit against Fox News may be sky high (msnbc.com) (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/fox-news-dominion-damages-rcna74446)

In [color=var(--article-body-list-link-color)]the Dominion versus Fox News defamation case[/color] (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/dominion-fox-news-needs-retract-lies-2020-election-rcna74041), Fox is now trapped in an ever-worsening spiral of lies of its own creation. Time and time again, Fox allegedly trafficked in lies and falsehoods. And the result just might be a financial death penalty for the network.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2023, 02:54:39 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 13, 2023, 12:50:45 PM

Hopefully y’all are not worried about your bank deposits.


 

Not worried about my credit union or LPL. Should I be?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 13, 2023, 02:58:25 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 13, 2023, 12:50:45 PM

Hopefully y’all are not worried about your bank deposits.


 

This implies that I have more than $250,000 in an account someplace.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2023, 03:15:42 PM

Don't we all?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 13, 2023, 03:27:21 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 13, 2023, 02:46:56 PM

In [color=var(--article-body-list-link-color)]the Dominion versus Fox News defamation case[/color] (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/dominion-fox-news-needs-retract-lies-2020-election-rcna74041), Fox is now trapped in an ever-worsening spiral of lies of its own creation. Time and time again, Fox allegedly trafficked in lies and falsehoods. And the result just might be a financial death penalty for the network.

If Fox News went away I wouldn't worry much.  Wouldn't have much affect on my daily life.

I'm sure something else would pop up in it's place. resume the same tactics to make the same obscene amount of money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2023, 03:46:08 PM

Sure, someone would replace them rather quickly using a different names, perhaps the same faces.

There really isn't 24 hours worth of real news in the average day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2023, 03:59:16 PM

Interesting read if you find time. Gubmit F's it up again.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/fed-interest-rates-inflation-svb-collapse-3495de76?st=woivg56m31t85tt&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 13, 2023, 04:11:46 PM

very few things the govmint doesn't F up

performance, proficiency, & efficiency are severely lacking in most agencies, departments, & entities that are run by the government

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2023, 04:20:34 PM

The article is about the Fed, not specifically Federal government, of which the Fed is supposedly independent.

I thought at the time they were too late raising rates and then went about it in almost a crisis mode which would have "interesting" impacts.  I also think they are far more important than most folks realize.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 13, 2023, 04:22:19 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2023, 03:59:16 PM

Interesting read if you find time. Gubmit F's it up again.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/fed-interest-rates-inflation-svb-collapse-3495de76?st=woivg56m31t85tt&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

And as I said in the COVID thread, the only reason we need these interest rates is that all the massive fiscal stimulus from COVID flooded the market with money, which is now chasing a level of goods that is equal (or perhaps lower due to supply chain issues) than before COVID. So what happens? Inflation. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on March 13, 2023, 04:49:07 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 06, 2023, 05:45:11 AM

4.  Egypt is really a third world country with poor roads. 
16.  Folks who say the US is a "third world country" need to get out more.

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 06, 2023, 08:07:39 AM

  And of course we had a goodly number of really fat people on board. 

I don’t want to hijack @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870)’s otherwise pleasant Travels and Impressions thread, so I’ll post my unsolicited perspective here:

America has people living on the sidewalks too, especially in the Pacific Coast cities, though overall, yes, the U.S. is incomparably better off than what’s to be encountered in the third world. But what’s vital to point out is the defining difference between the homeless in America and the rest of the world’s homeless. The masses of beggars seen in New Delhi, or the seven hundred thousand slum dwellers of Nairobi’s Kibera district, or throughout the unpowered barrios across Mexico – homelessness persists across the third world because of widespread poverty. Whereas in America, 99% of those living on the streets are there because of substance abuse.

In my own West Coast neighborhood, where “post-COVID” monthly homeless counts by city social workers are topping 2,000, this quote from a Portland non-profit homeless outreach comes to my mind nearly everyday: “Substance abuse is well documented as a contributor to homelessness, but it’s also established as a byproduct created by the trauma of living on the streets.“

For the rest of the world, replace “substance abuse” with “severe poverty”: “Severe poverty is well documented as a contributor to homelessness, but it’s also established as a byproduct created by the trauma of living on the streets.“

For all the many ways America stays a head above systemic plights plaguing the Third World – unstable currencies, endemic government corruption, permanent economic stagnation, severe poverty, and selectively enforced laws to name a few – along with obesity, America is uniquely suffering a targeted drug addiction reality. This is compounded by three fronts –

A) the vast over-prescription of highly addictive medications such as Percocets, Benzodiazepines, Adderall, Ambien, and Anti-depressants…

B) the rising recreational consumption of designer party drugs such as ecstasy, acids, and especially cocaine which is often supplemented with pills from Group A…

AND C) the focused influx of heroin, meth, counterfeit pills from Group A, and especially Fentanyl which is noticeably spiking ongoing overdose fatalities.

All three groups reinforce each other. A highly addictive Benzodiazepine like Klonopin, meant to treat panic disorders but somehow the sixth most prescribed medication in the U.S, conditions its consumers (mostly young women) to onset drug dependency, thus greatly increasing the willingness Benzo consumers will opt for the dirtier street substances of Group C.

My point in all this is America has a uniquely worrisome drug problem because America is the wealthiest and most willing drug consumer across global drug market – A) wealthiest, because America can afford to sustain its drug habit AND B) most willing because decades of over-prescribing, dating back to Valium, has conditioned large portions of the population to drug dependency.

Nowhere else in the world is facing such a steep rise in overdose deaths:

(https://i.imgur.com/wOnSYg1.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 13, 2023, 05:00:35 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2023, 02:54:39 PM

Not worried about my credit union or LPL. Should I be?

Nope

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 13, 2023, 05:10:43 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 13, 2023, 02:58:25 PM

This implies that I have more than $250,000 in an account someplace.

with a PhD I'm guessing you do unless the wife has your credit card 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 13, 2023, 09:53:24 PM

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1635285828850311172?t=mH_a0WqfimQsV2Zr9doDsg&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 13, 2023, 09:58:46 PM

When all of the comedic and sarcastic predictions from 15-20 years ago are coming true, this is evidence that everything is broken.  
Our society IS yesterday's satire.
This is a problem.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 13, 2023, 10:30:51 PM

same as 40 years ago

shit was coming true that had been predicted 20 years earlier

woe is me, the country and the world is going to hell

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 14, 2023, 03:45:08 AM

Yes, saying ho-hum, nothing-to-see-here is sure to improve things.
The first step to fixing a problem is to refuse there's a problem.
Got it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 14, 2023, 06:32:01 AM

I'm open to proposals and solutions. 

Go.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 14, 2023, 07:22:59 AM

The sky is falling 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 14, 2023, 07:49:48 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 13, 2023, 09:58:46 PM

When all of the comedic and sarcastic predictions from 15-20 years ago are coming true, this is evidence that everything is broken. 
Our society IS yesterday's satire.
This is a problem. 

Are you talking about the US, or the World?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2023, 08:12:53 AM

I'd rather live in a tent than in some of the "homes" I saw in Egypt.

There was one very odd thing, to me, the "houses" are square blocks of 2-3-4 stories,  the newer ones anyway, and they nearly all (95%) had columns on the roofs with rebar sticking straight up as if the next story was never built and the house was unfinished, but clearly folks lived in the lower floors.

Egypt has built several "new cities" of a million people with apartment blocks going for miles and miles, all the same 4 story block houses, in the middle of nowhere.  One was along the canal, it took us ~30 minutes to pass it.  It was on the east side, the Sinai, and there isn't a lot of means to get across the canal in a car or train.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 14, 2023, 08:22:05 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 14, 2023, 08:12:53 AM

I'd rather live in a tent than in some of the "homes" I saw in Egypt.

There was one very odd thing, to me, the "houses" are square blocks of 2-3-4 stories,  the newer ones anyway, and they nearly all (95%) had columns on the roofs with rebar sticking straight up as if the next story was never built and the house was unfinished, but clearly folks lived in the lower floors.

Egypt has built several "new cities" of a million people with apartment blocks going for miles and miles, all the same 4 story block houses, in the middle of nowhere.  One was along the canal, it took us ~30 minutes to pass it.  It was on the east side, the Sinai, and there isn't a lot of means to get across the canal in a car or train.

Labor camps?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2023, 08:34:25 AM

I doubt it, they buildings looked "nice", they were new at least.  Another city was called "New Qena".  We passed it on the bus, our tour guide was very proud of it.


(https://i.imgur.com/nkejr37.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 14, 2023, 09:01:01 AM

Quote from: ELA on March 13, 2023, 09:53:24 PM

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1635285828850311172?t=mH_a0WqfimQsV2Zr9doDsg&s=19

Except…..that’s not at all what is happening.

Small depositors ( ($250k for an individual and multiple times that for accounts with a beneficiary- so I’d you have a second account with $$250k with a beneficiary now your up to $500k) are covered by FDIC insurance, which is paid for by banks. 

The investors at SVB with deposits were fintechs and startups- with hundreds of millions in deposits.  They placed them there at SVB because SVB was one of a few banks known to be willing to loan money to those high risk businesses- in return for deposits.

Extremely poor management of the asset/liability matching, during a period of super high inflation ( spurred by record government spending- forcing the fed to rapidly increase interest rates)is the primary set of issues. 

There are other factors contributing- but there is no way to detail them without them sounding political ( which is NOT the intention) and turning this conversation into a tribe v tribe dialogue as usual. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 14, 2023, 09:17:54 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 14, 2023, 09:01:01 AM

Except…..that’s not at all what is happening.

Small depositors ( ($250k for an individual and multiple times that for accounts with a beneficiary- so I’d you have a second account with $$250k with a beneficiary now your up to $500k) are covered by FDIC insurance, which is paid for by banks. 

The investors at SVB with deposits were fintechs and startups- with hundreds of millions in deposits.  They placed them there at SVB because SVB was one of a few banks known to be willing to loan money to those high risk businesses- in return for deposits.

Extremely poor management of the asset/liability matching, during a period of super high inflation ( spurred by record government spending- forcing the fed to rapidly increase interest rates)is the primary set of issues. 

There are other factors contributing- but there is no way to detail them without them sounding political ( which is NOT the intention) and turning this conversation into a tribe v tribe dialogue as usual. 

Did you read that WSJ article I posted? I made it a free link for those who don't subscribe to it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 14, 2023, 09:24:49 AM

Ken Griffin: Fed’s intervention in SVB collapse shows U.S. capitalism is ‘breaking down before our eyes’ (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/ken-griffin-fed-s-intervention-in-svb-collapse-shows-u-s-capitalism-is-breaking-down-before-our-eyes/ar-AA18BsJP?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=8712018182c6429183e07cc8ecbcab75&ei=98)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2023, 09:25:36 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 14, 2023, 03:45:08 AM

Yes, saying ho-hum, nothing-to-see-here is sure to improve things.
The first step to fixing a problem is to refuse there's a problem.
Got it.

The first step in solving a problem is to define it as accurately as possible.

The second step is to pose possible solutions.  And often there really aren't any that are practicable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2023, 09:26:05 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 14, 2023, 09:24:49 AM

Ken Griffin: Fed’s intervention in SVB collapse shows U.S. capitalism is ‘breaking down before our eyes’ (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/ken-griffin-fed-s-intervention-in-svb-collapse-shows-u-s-capitalism-is-breaking-down-before-our-eyes/ar-AA18BsJP?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=8712018182c6429183e07cc8ecbcab75&ei=98)

Capitalism?  Breaking down?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 14, 2023, 09:49:23 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 14, 2023, 09:25:36 AM

The first step in solving a problem is to define it as accurately as possible.

The second step is to pose possible solutions.  And often there really aren't any that are practicable.

No, the first step in solving a problem is acknowledging there is a problem.
A certain % of our population is so in love with our country that they'll never admit it's imperfect.  In their eyes, the founding fathers brought down the Constitution from Mt. Sinai, Jesus was actually born on Dec 25 (I don't know what this has to do with the U.S., but ask them), and the U.S. will chug along as the world's greatest country in perpetuity.  

The mere suggestion that our country is even mortal insults their being.  It's odd...and wrong.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2023, 10:00:58 AM

I have never met a person who believed the US was perfect.  But if there are a few out there, why is this a problem?  Folks believe all sorts of things.

Do you have any potential solutions for this alleged problem?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 14, 2023, 10:15:29 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 14, 2023, 09:01:01 AM

Except…..that’s not at all what is happening.

Small depositors ( ($250k for an individual and multiple times that for accounts with a beneficiary- so I’d you have a second account with $$250k with a beneficiary now your up to $500k) are covered by FDIC insurance, which is paid for by banks. 

The investors at SVB with deposits were fintechs and startups- with hundreds of millions in deposits.  They placed them there at SVB because SVB was one of a few banks known to be willing to loan money to those high risk businesses- in return for deposits.

Extremely poor management of the asset/liability matching, during a period of super high inflation ( spurred by record government spending- forcing the fed to rapidly increase interest rates)is the primary set of issues. 

There are other factors contributing- but there is no way to detail them without them sounding political ( which is NOT the intention) and turning this conversation into a tribe v tribe dialogue as usual. 

You seem fun at parties.  It's a joke, from a cartoon

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 14, 2023, 10:22:52 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 14, 2023, 09:17:54 AM

Did you read that WSJ article I posted? I made it a free link for those who don't subscribe to it.

Yes.   Good read.  Pretty accurate.  The ketchup bottle analogy was spot on.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 14, 2023, 10:24:38 AM

Quote from: ELA on March 14, 2023, 10:15:29 AM

You seem fun at parties.  It's a joke, from a cartoon

Sorry. I did laugh at the cartoon.  

just wanted to add clarity from a life long banker. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 14, 2023, 10:35:27 AM

HB did the fed bail these guys out? I understand helping depositors but investors tough titties - it's the chance you take. Jerks in Government who navigated pre housing crises and covid i.e. Finestein and Pelosi dumping their investments should be skinned alive

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 14, 2023, 10:51:29 AM

Happy Pi Day!

(https://i.chzbgr.com/full/8758955008/h57A9349E/314-backwards-is-pie)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on March 14, 2023, 10:53:02 AM

Saw a meme yesterday that said we were forcusing on the wrong thing with SVB.  We should be celebrating their diversity for having an all-female investment board. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 14, 2023, 10:55:03 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 14, 2023, 09:49:23 AM

No, the first step in solving a problem is acknowledging there is a problem.
A certain % of our population is so in love with our country that they'll never admit it's imperfect.  In their eyes, the founding fathers brought down the Constitution from Mt. Sinai, Jesus was actually born on Dec 25 (I don't know what this has to do with the U.S., but ask them), and the U.S. will chug along as the world's greatest country in perpetuity. 

The mere suggestion that our country is even mortal insults their being.  It's odd...and wrong.

You don't like the Constitution? Please clarify.

You don't believe in God, we know.

World's greatest country?

Well, we were given that, along with the opportunity to amend as time passes.

There are people in this country who do not love it - what we were given. That's a problem I can identify, for sure. People burn the flag all the time - because they are free to do so under the Bill of Rights. Those people are also free to leave, and I wish they would (solution proposed).

...

“We have given you a Republic. It remains to be seen if you will be able to retain it.” The statement was made soon after Benjamin Franklin and the other delegates had concluded their work on the Constitution. A woman approached Ben Franklin outside and asked him "Well, Dr. Franklin, what have you done for us?”

...

Mr. Franklin and the other founders were clearly fearful that "we the people" would eventually try to turn the new Republic into a Democracy.

Well... That's another problem I can identify. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2023, 11:00:30 AM

I can't imagine a person who thinks the US is somehow "perfect".  I view this as a nonproblem, anyone with such a view is irrelevant.

I don't get wound up about "world's greatest country".  If one attaches differing metrics, you get different outputs.  Maybe the world's greatest is the one with the happiest citizens measured by polling.  Maybe it's the one with the largest GDP (per capita perhaps).  It's like greatest BBQ joints, or wines.  Make a list, throw it away, life goes on.

As for the Constitution, I think many of us here would like to amend it one way or the other, term limits often comes up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 14, 2023, 11:04:36 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 14, 2023, 10:22:52 AM

Yes.  Good read.  Pretty accurate.  The ketchup bottle analogy was spot on. 

I thought the same. And here's more.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/justice-department-sec-investigating-silicon-valley-banks-collapse-c192c2b2?st=94banm3jbcu363d&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 14, 2023, 11:11:19 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 14, 2023, 10:00:58 AM

I have never met a person who believed the US was perfect.  But if there are a few out there, why is this a problem?  Folks believe all sorts of things.

Do you have any potential solutions for this alleged problem?

There is no solution, that's the problem.  You can't just fix a decades-long buildup of absurdity.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 14, 2023, 11:12:02 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 14, 2023, 11:00:30 AM

I can't imagine a person who thinks the US is somehow "perfect".  I view this as a nonproblem, anyone with such a view is irrelevant.

I don't get wound up about "world's greatest country".  If one attaches differing metrics, you get different outputs.  Maybe the world's greatest is the one with the happiest citizens measured by polling.  Maybe it's the one with the largest GDP (per capita perhaps).  It's like greatest BBQ joints, or wines.  Make a list, throw it away, life goes on.

As for the Constitution, I think many of us here would like to amend it one way or the other, term limits often comes up.

What matters more than this?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 14, 2023, 11:34:32 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 14, 2023, 10:35:27 AM

HB did the fed bail these guys out? I understand helping depositors but investors tough titties - it's the chance you take. Jerks in Government who navigated pre housing crises and covid i.e. Finestein and Pelosi dumping their investments should be skinned alive

No the investors are not being bailed  out. So as you put it it is “tough titties“.

They are back stopping for the depositors using the FDIC and an option that is part of the existing framework, Albeit very rarely used.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2023, 11:51:20 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 14, 2023, 11:11:19 AM

There is no solution, that's the problem.  You can't just fix a decades-long buildup of absurdity.

There is no problem, that's the solution.  Nobody thinks what you think they think, or hardly anyone does, and they are irrelevant.

You create problems and then claim they have no solution, which to me is just whining, in this case about a nonexistent problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2023, 12:38:48 PM

Will the FDIC's move to cover uninsured deposits set a risky precedent? : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2023/03/14/1163295661/will-the-fdics-move-to-cover-uninsured-deposits-set-a-risky-precedent)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 14, 2023, 12:41:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 14, 2023, 11:51:20 AM

There is no problem, that's the solution.  Nobody thinks what you think they think, or hardly anyone does, and they are irrelevant.

You create problems and then claim they have no solution, which to me is just whining, in this case about a nonexistent problem.

You're right.
The U.S. will be the best, top-dog country forever and ever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2023, 12:45:35 PM

What percentage of the population today do you think believes that?

Hint:  It's miniscule.  Virtually nonexistent, except in your head.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 14, 2023, 01:03:18 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 14, 2023, 12:41:32 PM

The U.S. will be the best, top-dog country forever and ever.

It should be that, because it was set up to be that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 14, 2023, 01:19:08 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 14, 2023, 01:03:18 PM

It should be that, because it was set up to be that.

Every country has that goal.  But we'll accomplish it because.....we want it more?  We're smarter?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 14, 2023, 01:21:21 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 14, 2023, 12:45:35 PM

What percentage of the population today do you think believes that?

Hint:  It's miniscule.  Virtually nonexistent, except in your head.

Well any criticism of the country is met with a WRONG response.  No matter the criticism.  Maybe they just don't like the messenger and let that cloud their red, white, and blue eyes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 14, 2023, 01:40:54 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 14, 2023, 01:19:08 PM

Every country has that goal.  But we'll accomplish it because.....we want it more?  We're smarter? 

Used to. 

Used to be.

The downfall has been in place for 100 years.

Anyway...

A segment of our population wants to be like Europe (most have never actually been there). They are not aware that the vast majority of Europeans can speak English - not because they have to, rather they want to. Many would love to live here. Anecdotally, I know several of those people. Poopoo that as you will. I don't care. Europeans, sans the French, are generally enamored with the USA.

I wonder why? (Actually, I don't wonder why, because I know why.)

Another segment wants to be like Cuba (and most have never been there). Why have so many Cubans (and Haitians and Venezuelans, etc.) left for the USA? Why do they continue to try?

I wonder why? (Actually, I don't wonder why, because I know why.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2023, 01:45:08 PM

I see plenty of complaints about our country here, and elsewhere.  I've never heard anyone claim everything is perfect.

I just filed my income taxes, I am resigned to it of course, but I fully understand much of those monies will be wasted.  I also know our borrowing binge may well be the end of us.  I don't know when.  Folks we elect seem to believe we can borrow without limit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 14, 2023, 01:57:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 14, 2023, 01:45:08 PM

I see plenty of complaints about our country here, and elsewhere.  I've never heard anyone claim everything is perfect.

I just filed my income taxes, I am resigned to it of course, but I fully understand much of those monies will be wasted.  I also know our borrowing binge may well be the end of us.  I don't know when.  Folks we elect seem to believe we can borrow without limit.

As long as all of that borrowing feeds the war machine or social welfare programs, both voting bases are happy.  Who opposes it until a bridge collapses?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 14, 2023, 02:00:18 PM

Quote from: ELA on March 14, 2023, 01:57:57 PM

As long as all of that borrowing feeds the war machine or social welfare programs, both voting bases are happy.  Who opposes it until a bridge collapses?

Happy and mad all at the same time. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2023, 02:00:27 PM

I muse about folks being elected to really do something about the deficit.  The choices would be so painful, they'd never get reelected, if they really tried.

It's inherent in a "democracy" (defined broadly).  Games and bread.  And maybe we can continue to borrow without limit.  Everybody else is doing it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 14, 2023, 02:04:22 PM

What a weird position to assume of people, that actually liking the country, means they think it has zero room for improvement. 

In my experience the people who complain most bitterly about how terrible the US is, have never been outside of the US.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2023, 02:07:11 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 14, 2023, 02:04:22 PM

What a weird position, that actually liking the country, means you think it has zero room for improvement. 

It's a fantasy position, something made up about which one can complain.  Now, there are plenty who think the US is the best country in the world (by whatever metric), and in my experience they haven't traveled much either.

I have never visited one I prefer over this one as a place to live, Canada would probably be my second choice.  Denmark was nice.  They have issues also.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 14, 2023, 02:07:31 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 14, 2023, 02:04:22 PM

What a weird position to assume of people, that actually liking the country, means they think it has zero room for improvement. 

In my experience the people who complain most bitterly about how terrible the US is, have never been outside of the US.

Bingo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 14, 2023, 02:42:18 PM

Ahh, I see we're on this debate again...

Has anyone's opinions changed since we had it last year, or the year before that, or the year before that? 

Didn't think so. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2023, 02:43:24 PM

My opinion changed, I think.  About something.

I used to opine I wasn't sold on Kirby Smart as an HC.  I guess I kinda am now, maybe sorta.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 14, 2023, 03:00:35 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 14, 2023, 02:42:18 PM

Ahh, I see we're on this debate again...

Has anyone's opinions changed since we had it last year, or the year before that, or the year before that?

Didn't think so.

A bit, yes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 14, 2023, 03:19:11 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 14, 2023, 02:43:24 PM

My opinion changed, I think.  About something.

I used to opine I wasn't sold on Kirby Smart as an HC.  I guess I kinda am now, maybe sorta.

Still 0-1 in the Sugar Bowl.  Moving the goalposts I see

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2023, 03:23:57 PM

Yeah, 0-1 in the SB, that's a factor for sure.  I think 1-4 against Alabama, which is even worse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 14, 2023, 05:33:18 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 14, 2023, 02:07:31 PM

Bingo.

One thing that’s bad about America is that this topic doesn’t fully die. 

One thing that’s good is that we often don’t discuss it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 14, 2023, 06:20:13 PM

Quote from: ELA on March 14, 2023, 03:19:11 PM

Still 0-1 in the Sugar Bowl.  Moving the goalposts I see

Hmmmm, and what school did he lose to again?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on March 14, 2023, 06:54:35 PM

In other news....city of Madison plans to sue Hyundai and KIA for not making their cars harder to steal.   If we only had a system to charge people with crimes for stealing a motor vehicle.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 14, 2023, 10:37:06 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 14, 2023, 02:04:22 PM

What a weird position to assume of people, that actually liking the country, means they think it has zero room for improvement. 

In my experience the people who complain most bitterly about how terrible the US is, have never been outside of the US.

I find it a weird position, too.  To claim there's obviously room for improvement, but to resist any and all mentions of major criticisms and problems our country has.
Very weird.  A sort of "nuh uh" response.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 15, 2023, 12:30:15 AM

Quote from: MarqHusker on March 14, 2023, 06:54:35 PM

In other news....city of Madison plans to sue Hyundai and KIA for not making their cars harder to steal.  If we only had a system to charge people with crimes for stealing a motor vehicle. 

Evidently Insurance Companies are dropping those policies or charging exorbitant amount for coverage because they're easy to pinch. Just buy a standard shift 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 15, 2023, 07:57:13 AM

We are going to watch the symphony practice this morning, I'm rather interested in how it goes.  Apparently they "never" miss a note in a performance, which is something in itself considering how often they perform new stuff.  The last chair violinist must be really good I reckon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 15, 2023, 08:24:30 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 14, 2023, 05:33:18 PM

One thing that’s bad about America is that this topic doesn’t fully die.

One thing that’s good is that we often don’t discuss it.

It shouldn't die, and as a whole it should be discussed more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 15, 2023, 08:28:12 AM

What is the topic?  The strange notion that some Americans think the country is somehow perfect and that is a problem?

I've never met one, the few who might exist are problems only for themselves.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on March 15, 2023, 10:58:01 AM

I admit I’m not a well traveled person, but there is not a doubt in my mind that the US has got to be one of the greatest countries that ever existed and will continue to do so for a long, long time. 

Despite all our flaws we still dominate a lot of industry. It’s true that for the most part we don’t dominate manufacturing but instead we do dominate the design. 

And if you want one example we’re about to lap EU and China in space exploration. Again. Russia will be an afterthought. We’ve already pulled most commercial launches from ESA and Roscosmos and it’s about to get worse for them. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 15, 2023, 01:29:17 PM

The symphony practice session was interesting.  The conductor had them play segments of a Seblius symphony over and over asking for more this and less that, as one could expect.  I couldn't hear any difference.  There was a lot of discussion between the various principals and the conductor, I couldn't make out much of it.  There was another assistant conductor sitting right in front of us in the audience (of about 25 people) with the score and offering a few comments, mostly thumbs up.  My wife introduced us to him at a break and he said he had spent time in Cincinnati studying and knew Louis Langree quite well, the former maestro there (and my wife's favorite, she' texted him about the experience).

These musicians pick up new music each week and somehow master it in three days or so and then assemble once to practice together, it's quite impressive to me.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 15, 2023, 03:45:07 PM

Quote from: Gigem on March 15, 2023, 10:58:01 AM

I admit I’m not a well traveled person, but there is not a doubt in my mind that the US has got to be one of the greatest countries that ever existed and will continue to do so for a long, long time.

Despite all our flaws we still dominate a lot of industry. It’s true that for the most part we don’t dominate manufacturing but instead we do dominate the design.

And if you want one example we’re about to lap EU and China in space exploration. Again. Russia will be an afterthought. We’ve already pulled most commercial launches from ESA and Roscosmos and it’s about to get worse for them.

Yep. We’re pretty great.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 15, 2023, 04:20:00 PM

Need more STEM graduates from our schools. 

Ones that actually stay here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 15, 2023, 04:31:54 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 15, 2023, 08:28:12 AM

What is the topic?  The strange notion that some Americans think the country is somehow perfect and that is a problem?

I've never met one, the few who might exist are problems only for themselves.

So no one thinks the U.S. is perfect....but there's plenty (and a ton here) that poo-poo any and all criticisms of the U.S.  
Yes, that paradox is bizarre, I'll give you that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 15, 2023, 04:33:23 PM

The lack of objectivity here is amazing.
EVERY country that has ever been the best in any given century was proud of that fact and didn't see any reason it should change. 
Yet change it did.  Every time.  
This isn't rocket science, guys.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 15, 2023, 04:47:09 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 15, 2023, 04:33:23 PM

The lack of objectivity here is amazing.
EVERY country that has ever been the best in any given century was proud of that fact and didn't see any reason it should change.
Yet change it did.  Every time. 
This isn't rocket science, guys.

And they all crumbled in the process of making their changes.

I'd like for us to keep the Republic.

Repealing the 17th with a 28th would be a nice boost, as would a 29th limiting the terms of House members. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 15, 2023, 05:27:30 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 15, 2023, 04:47:09 PM

And they all crumbled in the process of making their changes.

I'd like for us to keep the Republic.

Repealing the 17th with a 28th would be a nice boost, as would a 29th limiting the terms of House members.

Hasn’t vast majority of American greatness included the 17th amendment? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 15, 2023, 06:00:45 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 15, 2023, 05:27:30 PM

Hasn’t vast majority of American greatness included the 17th amendment?

Im for the American citizens having as much say as possible by their vote

we need to keep the 17th Amend

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 15, 2023, 06:09:45 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 15, 2023, 04:31:54 PM

So no one thinks the U.S. is perfect....but there's plenty (and a ton here) that poo-poo any and all criticisms of the U.S. 
Yes, that paradox is bizarre, I'll give you that.

I don't see ANYONE here  "poo pooing criticisms" of the US that are reasonable (this one isn't).  Iin fact most of us have offered plenty of our own.  And of course, to suggest this or that criticism is silly is not nearly the same thing as claiming the US is perfect, you wouldn't find a solitary poster here who thought that.  You wouldn't find a man on the street that thinks that either.

We have plenty of issues as a nation, one of them is not that too many folks think the nation is perfect or even near perfect.  Maybe folks on the Egg Lobby Board think that, I dunno much about them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 15, 2023, 07:07:11 PM

Images: Atlanta's tallest new hotel in almost 40 years will soon top out | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/images-signia-downtown-tallest-new-hotel-top-out-soon)

As my wife says "coming soon", laughing.  It amazes me that the MB Dome is equivalent to 32 stories of building in height.

And they offer $2 hot dogs (price went up recently I'm told.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 15, 2023, 08:28:42 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 15, 2023, 06:09:45 PM

I don't see ANYONE here  "poo pooing criticisms" of the US that are reasonable (this one isn't).  Iin fact most of us have offered plenty of our own.  And of course, to suggest this or that criticism is silly is not nearly the same thing as claiming the US is perfect, you wouldn't find a solitary poster here who thought that.  You wouldn't find a man on the street that thinks that either.

We have plenty of issues as a nation, one of them is not that too many folks think the nation is perfect or even near perfect.  Maybe folks on the Egg Lobby Board think that, I dunno much about them.

You're confusing people who think the U.S. is perfect with people who are willing to claim it aloud.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 15, 2023, 08:38:12 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 15, 2023, 06:00:45 PM

Im for the American citizens having as much say as possible by their vote

we need to keep the 17th Amend

I'm assuming he's not even wanting there to BE senators maybe?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 15, 2023, 08:49:38 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 15, 2023, 08:38:12 PM

I'm assuming he's not even wanting there to BE senators maybe?

just the good ones

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2023, 01:19:33 AM

Cincy, I don't think you're being objective.  In any event, you're posting the same thing over and over again.  We got it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2023, 06:32:58 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 15, 2023, 08:28:42 PM

You're confusing people who think the U.S. is perfect with people who are willing to claim it aloud. 

Can you offer an example of such a person?

Aside from whatever is in your own head?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2023, 07:31:06 AM

Still chilly here, I guess over most of the US relatively.  It's actually nice outside in the afternoon, little wind and full sun.  The trees and flowers seem to come out early and this might impact our fruit production, which is not good.  We usually get some great peaches and apples at our local farmer's market.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on March 16, 2023, 07:55:44 AM

Anybody want to tackle this whole San Francisco slavery reparations deal?  Because I’m throughly confused. 

Because-They passed some sort of resolution to pay $5 million per person. But is this just for blacks living in the city?  And most importantly, I’m fairly certain SF and California did not allow slavery. Im not even sure when they became a state, but I don’t recall them having any involvement in the civil war or any of the major movements of the day. 

The whole thing is just so weird, even by California standards. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2023, 08:13:17 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 15, 2023, 06:00:45 PM

Im for the American citizens having as much say as possible by their vote

we need to keep the 17th Amend

We would have more say without it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2023, 08:15:39 AM

Quote from: Gigem on March 16, 2023, 07:55:44 AM

Anybody want to tackle this whole San Francisco slavery reparations deal?  Because I’m throughly confused.

Because-They passed some sort of resolution to pay $5 million per person. But is this just for blacks living in the city?  And most importantly, I’m fairly certain SF and California did not allow slavery. Im not even sure when they became a state, but I don’t recall them having any involvement in the civil war or any of the major movements of the day.

The whole thing is just so weird, even by California standards.

Buying votes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2023, 08:25:39 AM

SF hasn't passed anything, they have a committee making some recommendations (California has the same on a state level).  I think if we here appointed a committee to hand out say $1 MILLION dollars to every poster here, said committee would forward that recommendation.  I suspect the PTBs would say "Thanks, we'll consider it ..." (or not), and that would be that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 16, 2023, 09:22:50 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2023, 08:13:17 AM

Republicans would have more say without it.

FIFY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2023, 09:24:38 AM

San Francisco proposes reparations, includes $5 million for eligible Black people | PBS NewsHour (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/san-francisco-proposes-reparations-includes-5-million-for-eligible-black-people)

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — A controversial draft reparations proposal that includes a $5 million lump-sum payment for each eligible Black person could make San Francisco the first major U.S. city to fund reparations, though it faces steep financial headwinds and blistering criticism from conservatives.

Tuesday’s meeting of the San Francisco Board of Supervisors will include a presentation by San Francisco’s African American Reparations Advisory Committee, which released its draft report in December. The $5 million-per-person payment is among more than 100 recommendations ranging from offering grants to buy and maintain homes to exempting Black businesses from paying taxes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 16, 2023, 09:38:38 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 15, 2023, 08:38:12 PM

I'm assuming he's not even wanting there to BE senators maybe?

Not sure how you got that out of wanting to repeal the 17th Amendment, which I believe to be the best thing that we could do in this country. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2023, 10:53:46 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 16, 2023, 09:22:50 AM

FIFY

No, you didn't. Everyone would have more of a say - if they wanted to, of course.

As for me, I was very active with my former state rep in Illinois, and I'm working on the new one in Florida. So yes, I'd have more of a say.

Just as you would, if you had a relationship with your local rep.

That's a choice we all make. You either get involved, or you don't.

And, if you don't, stop bitching. Pretty simple, yes?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2023, 10:57:44 AM

I'm going to stay uninvolved, but it will not diminish my bitching at all.

(My wife got on a committee here to design an upgrade for our community deck space.  They put in quite a bit of work, and the HOA Board ignored it all, entirely, and did their own thing.  I had warned my wife of that possibility.  She wasn't overly upset because she had stopped going to their meetings nearer the end.  One guy, a "designer", claimed he spent over $500 on his designs that were ignored.)

One of our best senators was appointed by the governor (Sam Nunn).

I can't name a politician today I really respect.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on March 16, 2023, 11:25:42 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 15, 2023, 08:38:12 PM

I'm assuming he's not even wanting there to BE senators maybe?

No Senators should be selected by the states not the "people" as it was at the beginning of the Republic.  Senators use to be accountable to the state's government and thus states' rights and interest were protected by the Senate while the people's rights and interest were under the House.  The 10th amendment exist in name only these days and this is mainly the result of the 17th amendment.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on March 16, 2023, 11:25:45 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2023, 08:25:39 AM

SF hasn't passed anything, they have a committee making some recommendations (California has the same on a state level).  I think if we here appointed a committee to hand out say $1 MILLION dollars to every poster here, said committee would forward that recommendation.  I suspect the PTBs would say "Thanks, we'll consider it ..." (or not), and that would be that.

No, I get that part that it's not binding.  But why in the world would SF even feel obliged to pay reparations

for something they had no part of?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 16, 2023, 11:29:16 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 16, 2023, 09:22:50 AM

FIFY

Thats exactly right

If the 17th Amend was abolished it would mean the state gov would select the senators

there are more Red states the blue states so wala Republicans take the senate

the people would not have direct say

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2023, 11:29:39 AM

Quote from: Gigem on March 16, 2023, 11:25:45 AM

No, I get that part that it's not binding.  But why in the world would SF even feel obliged to pay reparations

for something they had no part of? 

It's not specifically reparations for slavery, but for racism and policies that kept AAs "back" for decades, like red lining etc.  And I personally don't think they feel obliged to pay anything here, it's just for show (I think), same with the state.

I mused once about somehow paying reparations for all this to certain black folks and then ending all racial anythings by government, which would become race blind in all aspects.  I think many of the AA policies end up harming AAs longer term.  I've seen it in real time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 16, 2023, 11:31:22 AM

Quote from: Gigem on March 16, 2023, 11:25:45 AM

No, I get that part that it's not binding.  But why in the world would SF even feel obliged to pay reparations

for something they had no part of? 

hell those folks dont go to sleep at night until they figure out another way to miss with peoples private affairs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2023, 11:50:14 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on March 16, 2023, 11:25:42 AM

No Senators should be selected by the states not the "people" as it was at the beginning of the Republic.  Senators use to be accountable to the state's government and thus states' rights and interest were protected by the Senate while the people's rights and interest were under the House.  The 10th amendment exist in name only these days and this is mainly the result of the 17th amendment.

Exactly. The 10th means nothing anymore.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 16, 2023, 12:18:15 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2023, 11:50:14 AM

Exactly. The 10th means nothing anymore.

dont agree states rights have been supported many times by SCOTUS and remains very much in play

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2023, 12:20:52 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 16, 2023, 12:18:15 PM

dont agree states rights have been supported many times by SCOTUS and remains very much in play

It's not the SCOTUS that concerns me.

It's the establishment Uniparty and unelected bureaucrats that scare me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 16, 2023, 12:21:23 PM

the main purpose of the senate is to ensure all states have an equal say in congress 

that remains in place and is strengthened by a states citizens having direct say in that states representatives

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 16, 2023, 12:26:49 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2023, 12:20:52 PM

It's not the SCOTUS that concerns me.

It's the establishment Uniparty and unelected bureaucrats that scare me.

Senators picked by a state party are unelected, and serve at the pleasure of for the most part entrenched single-party machines that regularly takes steps to insulate themselves and lock in their influence? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2023, 12:33:53 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 16, 2023, 12:26:49 PM

Senators picked by a state party are unelected, and serve at the pleasure of for the most part entrenched single-party machines that regularly takes steps to insulate themselves and lock in their influence?

They would have more accountability to their home states, in my opinion.

Of course, reform at the state level is also needed. Term limits, for sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 16, 2023, 12:36:23 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2023, 10:53:46 AM

No, you didn't. Everyone would have more of a say - if they wanted to, of course.

As for me, I was very active with my former state rep in Illinois, and I'm working on the new one in Florida. So yes, I'd have more of a say.

Just as you would, if you had a relationship with your local rep.

That's a choice we all make. You either get involved, or you don't.

And, if you don't, stop bitching. Pretty simple, yes?

Badge, you know I respect you, but this reads as incredibly naive. 

It basically says that instead of giving everyone a small bit of easily accessible influence on this process, we should remove that, and make the path to selecting senators run even more through the political class. 

This waves off the idea that your rep answers to his party much, much more than you. It also seems to say that most people deserve less say, but you deserve more. And the reason that you deserve more is because you're in position to have this relationship. And I'm going to guess there are some uneven factors that go into who gets these kinds of relationships. Would these relationships exist if you didn't take a role in representing certain interests? 

To phrase it another way, if I, with my remote job as a middle manager, moved into your neighborhood, would I be able to easily build that relationship? Or would I need to have some heft and influence behind me?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2023, 12:38:17 PM

I think you'd be surprised at how much local reps value their constituents, regardless of party.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 16, 2023, 01:02:49 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 16, 2023, 12:26:49 PM

Senators picked by a state party are unelected, and serve at the pleasure of for the most part entrenched single-party machines that regularly takes steps to insulate themselves and lock in their influence?

And how do you believe things are going presently? Mitch McConnell and Chuck Schumer pretty much run their junior Senators now. While I believe that the Republicans are more likely to buck McConnell, Schumer has a pretty tight leash on the Dem Senators by holding committee assignments and DNC funds from those that don't follow in lock step.

If the 17th were repealed, the States would at least have the option to pull a rouge Senator back and replace him.

And as Badge said, local reps value their constituents opinions much more so than US Reps do. I know I have my State Reps cell phone number in my phone and have called him on a few occasions to voice my opinion about legislation being debated.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2023, 02:04:40 PM

Anyone ever listen to 2112 by RUSH?

2112 Lyrics | Rush.com (https://www.rush.com/songs/2112/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 16, 2023, 02:17:17 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2023, 02:04:40 PM

Anyone ever listen to 2112 by RUSH?

2112 Lyrics | Rush.com (https://www.rush.com/songs/2112/)

I'll see your 2112 raise you The Eve of Destruction sung by Barry MCguire


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfZVu0alU0I

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2023, 02:50:22 PM

Idk why anyone would want to put the selection of senators in fewer hands (SS).  Awful idea.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 16, 2023, 03:18:01 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2023, 02:50:22 PM

Idk why anyone would want to put the selection of senators in fewer hands (SS).  Awful idea.

I looked outside but no pigs were flying

We actually agree on something

amazing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2023, 03:27:44 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2023, 02:50:22 PM

Idk why anyone would want to put the selection of senators in fewer hands (SS).  Awful idea.

The Founders, who generally were pretty bright, wanted that, obviously (which doesn't make it right or wrong).  Initially, the voting public (white, over 21, male, property owners generally) only voted directly for the House.  Our Founders feared pure democracy about as much as monarchy.  They wanted checks and balances, in large part to secure the rights of minority positions.  And of course technically we still elect Presidents in very very few hands, a lot of folks would like to change that too.

I have no real position on 17, it's fine with me, it's not going to change obviously, so I don't sweat it except perhaps as a thinking exercise.

The country overall does change, the various Amendments are examples of that, and a new Amendment is a tough lift, and means most folks favor it.  We're not going to see new Amendments in my lifetime, I suspect, term limits are out for obvious reasons, we're not going to alter 2A, a Balanced Budget Amendment won't happen, the Women's ERA won't happen, I can't think of anything else remotely possible.

Maybe that is because so many folks think everything is Perfect already.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 16, 2023, 03:39:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2023, 03:27:44 PM

  And of course technically we still elect Presidents in very very few hands, a lot of folks would like to change that too.

not sure what you mean here could you explain

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2023, 03:41:17 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2023, 03:27:44 PM

The Founders, who generally were pretty bright, wanted that, obviously (which doesn't make it right or wrong).  Initially, the voting public (white, over 21, male, property owners generally) only voted directly for the House.  Our Founders feared pure democracy about as much as monarchy.  They wanted checks and balances, in large part to secure the rights of minority positions.  And of course technically we still elect Presidents in very very few hands, a lot of folks would like to change that too.

I have no real position on 17, it's fine with me, it's not going to change obviously, so I don't sweat it except perhaps as a thinking exercise.

The country overall does change, the various Amendments are examples of that, and a new Amendment is a tough lift, and means most folks favor it.  We're not going to see new Amendments in my lifetime, I suspect, term limits are out for obvious reasons, we're not going to alter 2A, a Balanced Budget Amendment won't happen, the Women's ERA won't happen, I can't think of anything else remotely possible.

Maybe that is because so many folks think everything is Perfect already. 

How can someone so old be so naive?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2023, 03:41:32 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 16, 2023, 03:39:34 PM

not sure what you mean here could you explain

Some college elects Presidents, I think maybe it's Notre Dame.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2023, 03:42:09 PM

France's Macron overrides parliament to pass pension reform bill (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/16/frances-macron-overrides-parliament-to-pass-pension-reform-bill.html)

(https://i.imgur.com/1R7J1Jw.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 16, 2023, 03:51:40 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 16, 2023, 03:42:09 PM

France's Macron overrides parliament to pass pension reform bill (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/16/frances-macron-overrides-parliament-to-pass-pension-reform-bill.html)

(https://i.imgur.com/1R7J1Jw.png)

how the hell can you do that
is he King

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2023, 03:54:25 PM

The French President has considerable powers because of DeGaulle.

Commitment of responsibility on a bill (49.3)[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Article_49_of_the_French_Constitution&action=edit&section=15)]

Clause 3 allows the government to impose the adoption of a text by the Assembly, immediately and without a vote, that the assembly cannot oppose without toppling the government through a motion of no confidence under Clause 2. This is one of the best known clauses of the Constitution, often cited by number, "article 49.3"^{[23] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_49_of_the_French_Constitution#cite_note-23)} or even "the forty-nine three." This clause reveals a reversal of the relationship between governments and parliaments in the 20th century in favor of the former: the executive power is no longer subordinated to the legislative one and must be able to adopt laws in accordance to its policy. The article allows the government to compel the majority if reluctant to adopt a text, and also to accelerate the legislative process, and in particular to end any obstruction from the opposition.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 16, 2023, 04:09:48 PM

so they have a monarchy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2023, 04:10:51 PM

Not quite, a no confidence vote generates a new election.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 16, 2023, 04:23:03 PM

It speaks of two different bodies

the Government and the Parliament

this really interesting

its very much a monarchy with the only power the people have is to replace the King if they disagree with his actions

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2023, 04:26:40 PM

They have a Senate and a National Assembly, basically like our Congress.  The Senate passed the measure.  Macron used this specific rule to bypass the NA.  The NA COULD vote no confidence, but I doubt they do that.  The "people" most often influence policy by striking, and at times protesting (manifestations).  It can get pretty ugly if you're there at the wrong time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 16, 2023, 08:48:18 PM

San Francisco is moving forward is passing resolution against various gas appliances 

including central heat


Just another example of the left crazies jumping into a citizens private life and making it less desirable

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2023, 09:43:59 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2023, 02:04:40 PM

Anyone ever listen to 2112 by RUSH?

2112 Lyrics | Rush.com (https://www.rush.com/songs/2112/)

Regularly 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 17, 2023, 12:34:32 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 16, 2023, 04:23:03 PM

It speaks of two different bodies

the Government and the Parliament

this really interesting

its very much a monarchy with the only power the people have is to replace the King if they disagree with his actions

It's about as close to a constitutional monarchy as you have in the developed world.  The two biggest checks on it, that we don't really have here, is that labor has a much bigger voice there, and the parliamentary system, limits the power of any one party. So while our executive branch is not nearly as strong, when our executive branch and legislative branch are entirely controlled by the same party, it might as well be a dictatorship

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on March 17, 2023, 09:39:57 AM

 China sends assault rifles and body armor to Russia.  Looking forward to seeing how the Biden Administration spins this.  Are these assault rifles lethal aid or are such "weapons of war" not considered lethal?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-shipped-assault-rifles-body-armor-drone-parts-to-russia-reports/ar-AA18JRUn (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-shipped-assault-rifles-body-armor-drone-parts-to-russia-reports/ar-AA18JRUn)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2023, 10:45:28 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on March 17, 2023, 09:39:57 AM

China sends assault rifles and body armor to Russia.  Looking forward to seeing how the Biden Administration spins this.  Are these assault rifles lethal aid or are such "weapons of war" not considered lethal?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-shipped-assault-rifles-body-armor-drone-parts-to-russia-reports/ar-AA18JRUn (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-shipped-assault-rifles-body-armor-drone-parts-to-russia-reports/ar-AA18JRUn)

If they are anything like the products (garbage) China sends over here, they will fail in short order.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 17, 2023, 11:04:26 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2023, 10:45:28 AM

If they are anything like the products (garbage) China sends over here, they will fail in short order.

Id love to see the set of instructions sent with it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2023, 01:13:28 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 17, 2023, 11:04:26 AM

Id love to see the set of instructions sent with it

Missing several steps, no doubt.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2023, 02:15:46 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 16, 2023, 09:43:59 PM

Regularly

Rush Golden Ale - Buy Craft Beer Online - Half Time Beverage | Half Time (https://halftimebeverage.com/rush-golden-ale)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 17, 2023, 05:59:55 PM

a 4 pack for 22 Bucks not including shipping? I don't think so just because they slap insignia of caterwauling Canucks on it. It's gotta be nectar from Vallhalla poured from the Holy Grail delivered by an Albino Unicorn even then that's steep for a poor dirt farmer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2023, 06:07:26 PM

rather have a Guinness today

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2023, 06:56:23 PM

https://youtu.be/B4v6aNjGFFk

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 18, 2023, 08:21:03 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 17, 2023, 05:59:55 PM

a 4 pack for 22 Bucks not including shipping? I don't think so just because they slap insignia of caterwauling Canucks on it. It's gotta be nectar from Vallhalla poured from the Holy Grail delivered by an Albino Unicorn even then that's steep for a poor dirt farmer

Yeah, it's not cheap. I'm ordering a case because the shipping is the same no matter what you order.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 18, 2023, 08:58:54 AM

well then, 2 cases!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 18, 2023, 09:06:27 AM

Not a bad idea.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2023, 11:04:20 AM

San Francisco is discussing reparations proposals, but they're a long way off : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2023/03/18/1164126348/san-francisco-reparations-proposal-activists)

At its peak in the 1970s, African Americans made up about 13.5% of the city's population (http://www.bayareacensus.ca.gov/counties/SanFranciscoCounty70.htm). As of 2022, the number dropped to 5.7% (https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/sanfranciscocountycalifornia). That makes it one of the biggest cities in the nation with one of the lowest shares of black residents. (https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/san-franciscos-black-population-dwindling/)
"There should be deliberate action to stop the hemorrhaging of this black population if we want to have any Black people left to give reparations to," Brown said.
Brown also noted the city's budget deficit. "They know there's no money to pay for it," Brown said. "So all they did was just give lip service. It's not fair. It's not honest."
By voting to accept the proposal without any indication of how they'd fund it, politicians get to have it both ways, according to Brown.
"They offer low hanging fruit that seems like a victory but you know will only [lead to] more studies. And that's another game. Another delaying tactic. That gets people frustrated until things dissipate and then self-destruct. We've got to stop that. It's time for America to pay up and deal in substance, with integrity and with accountability," Brown said.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 19, 2023, 09:06:52 AM

The GOP was addicted to 'voter fraud' claims. Trump made it worse. (msnbc.com) (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/gop-was-addicted-voter-fraud-claims-trump-made-worse-rcna75478)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 19, 2023, 09:16:33 AM

so, it wasn't even Trump's idea?

he just made it worse by jumping on the bandwagon

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 19, 2023, 10:25:29 AM

reports from the Pentagon have highlighted the possibility that an extra-terrestrial spacecraft is out there sending mini-probes to study the planets of our Solar System, in a manner similar to what our own space agencies do.

That's the conclusion of Sean Kirkpatrick, the head of the director of the Pentagon's All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO).


https://amp.marca.com/en/lifestyle/world-news/2023/03/16/641353c6268e3edf3f8b45a4.html (https://amp.marca.com/en/lifestyle/world-news/2023/03/16/641353c6268e3edf3f8b45a4.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 19, 2023, 10:26:42 AM

ChatGPT Just Passed Three Levels of the Master Sommelier Exam

https://vinepair.com/booze-news/chatgpt-passes-master-sommelier-exam/ (https://vinepair.com/booze-news/chatgpt-passes-master-sommelier-exam/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 19, 2023, 10:49:50 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 19, 2023, 09:06:52 AM

The GOP was addicted to 'voter fraud' claims. Trump made it worse. (msnbc.com) (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/gop-was-addicted-voter-fraud-claims-trump-made-worse-rcna75478)

just another hit piece from the lefts biggest cheerleader

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 19, 2023, 10:54:33 AM

That dude is the Left's Biggest Cheerleader?  Is there any factual flaw in his "analysis"?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 19, 2023, 11:01:47 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 19, 2023, 10:54:33 AM

That dude is the Left's Biggest Cheerleader?  Is there any factual flaw in his "analysis"?

Hey its MSNBC which never lets factual flaws keep them from spewing forth their tripe

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 19, 2023, 11:44:43 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 18, 2023, 08:58:54 AM

well then, 2 cases!

HA! you're always thinkin' Butch!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 19, 2023, 02:10:21 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 19, 2023, 09:06:52 AM

The GOP was addicted to 'voter fraud' claims. Trump made it worse. (msnbc.com) (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/gop-was-addicted-voter-fraud-claims-trump-made-worse-rcna75478)

Not easy to read anything from that joke of an outlet.   Woke would be a seven level downgrade for those idiots. 

but their base theory is completely flawed. “Voter fraud“ at the extent it is prevalent was invented by the Democrats after the 2016 election where Trump spanked Hillary.  How much of the taxpayers money and how many years did they spend on the Faux “Russia Russia” crap?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 19, 2023, 03:27:57 PM

The opinion piece relates to claims of dead people voting, nothing else.  It cites a survey ostensibly paid for by the Trump campaign that concluded very very few possibly dead people accounted for actual votes.  Now, maybe there is a flaw in there somewhere.  Opinion pieces can leave out critical other information.

It doesn't relate to possible other kinds of voter fraud.

I have seen some other pieces refuting the idea that a lot of dead people voted in X or Y.  Sometimes they died after casting the ballot.  Often it was a person with the same name who died, not the actual voter.  

It seems facile to me to dismiss a "news" item simply because of source.  The source can make one extra careful of course, which I would apply to every news outlet, not just MSNBC.  I realize it's easier just to ignore anything Fox News or MSNBC or CNN et al. reports as 'fake news' and be done with it without spending any time reading and refuting the actual item.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 19, 2023, 03:37:14 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 19, 2023, 03:27:57 PM

It seems facile to me to dismiss a "news" item simply because of source.  The source can make one extra careful of course, which I would apply to every news outlet, not just MSNBC.  I realize it's easier just to ignore anything Fox News or MSNBC or CNN et al. reports as 'fake news' and be done with it without spending any time reading and refuting the actual item.

the sources have "earned" this IMO

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 19, 2023, 04:06:09 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 19, 2023, 03:27:57 PM

The opinion piece relates to claims of dead people voting, nothing else.  It cites a survey ostensibly paid for by the Trump campaign that concluded very very few possibly dead people accounted for actual votes.  Now, maybe there is a flaw in there somewhere.  Opinion pieces can leave out critical other information.

It doesn't relate to possible other kinds of voter fraud.

I have seen some other pieces refuting the idea that a lot of dead people voted in X or Y.  Sometimes they died after casting the ballot.  Often it was a person with the same name who died, not the actual voter. 

It seems facile to me to dismiss a "news" item simply because of source.  The source can make one extra careful of course, which I would apply to every news outlet, not just MSNBC.  I realize it's easier just to ignore anything Fox News or MSNBC or CNN et al. reports as 'fake news' and be done with it without spending any time reading and refuting the actual item.

I tend to be somewhat dismissive of a lot of stuff that comes out of Fox or MSNBC. Mainly for two reasons:

1. Inevitably what gets shared is often the most bombastic stuff. Both websites have like a quarter billion articles on them. Most of those are extremely stayed and boring. But they don’t tend to get shared.
2. Inevitably what gets shared from both those outlets tends to be heavily framed. Usually in a way to be easily shared to mock the other side. The best way to take anything by with a headline that makes you feel right is to click deeper, try to understand the context and read the original articles they are usually riffing off of. Often, it turns out reality is much less inflammatory than some folks would have you believe.

(I remain deeply skeptical about the voter fraud stuff, mostly because it implies incredible competence and discipline that I flat out think the party being accused of it does not possess)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 19, 2023, 04:14:23 PM

I fully agree about being skeptical of these news sources.  But I don't dismiss anything they report as inherently untrue.  I do my best to seek several news sources to compare and contrast.  I find the business news sites to be the best overall, their clientel I think has less patience for the exaggerated and ridiculous, along with stories about some movie star.  But I do think there can be good articles on these sites (Fox, MSNBC, etc.), it's just far from guaranteed.

It's good to keep in mind these are businesses and they try and cater to their customers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 19, 2023, 04:43:50 PM

some news is worthy of my effort to compare and contrast

political stuff - not
mostly slanted garbage

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 19, 2023, 04:58:53 PM

The articles’ title ( GOP addicted to voter fraud) is what renders the rest immediately not worthy of reading. 

It is flawed, not fact based, inflammatory and and reasonable argument could be made that it is the opposite of the truth.  

Seems  odd to me that you would post it here.  Seems like it belongs in one of those unmoderated threads.  

And yes- MSNBC is correctly and widely viewed as so far on the left extreme - way beyond CNN or Fox. So it makes total sense to dismiss their garbage. And so- millions do.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 19, 2023, 09:11:49 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 19, 2023, 04:58:53 PM

And yes- MSNBC is correctly and widely viewed as so far on the left extreme - way beyond CNN or Fox. So it makes total sense to dismiss their garbage. And so- millions do. 

This is amazing.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 19, 2023, 09:41:42 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 19, 2023, 09:11:49 PM

This is amazing. 

And true.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 20, 2023, 05:02:52 AM

At 4:40 AM, I awoke to this rather loud chirping sound, which also woke my wife.  In my early morning fog, I wasn't sure what it was until I washed my eyes out a bit and realized it was the smoke alarm signaling the battery was dead.  I stumbled downstairs trying to recall where I might have a 9V, found one, replaced it, and stopped the chirping, but now I'm up, she's not, but I made coffee.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 20, 2023, 05:15:34 AM

World Happiness Report: The world's happiest countries for 2023 | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/world-happiest-countries-2023-wellness/index.html)

The Nordic countries fare well, but Israel is #4?  Huh.  One thing, for me, is how "happiness" relates to "expectations" (hopes and dreams).  If you don't expect much, it's easier to be happy.  I've met folks, we all have, who seem to "have it all" and yet are unhappy.

Israel moves up to No. 4 this year from its No. 9 ranking last year. The Netherlands (No. 5), Switzerland (No. 8), Luxembourg (No. 9) and New Zealand (No. 10) round out the top 10.

Australia (No. 12), Canada (No. 13), Ireland (No. 14), the United States (No. 15) and the United Kingdom (No. 19) all made it into the top 20.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 20, 2023, 05:27:31 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 19, 2023, 04:58:53 PM

The articles’ title ( GOP addicted to voter fraud) is what renders the rest immediately not worthy of reading.

Legit point, I actually skipped over it.  It is an opinion piece, so I grant latitude in such things, but it is a sign of "bias".  I thought perhaps someone could rebut the piece with other information the writer failed to offer, but I understand the point that such drivel isn't worth one's time.

(I almost never watch news on TV because it's so much faster to read on line.  My wife turns on the local news at times when I'm around, mostly for weather, which I also prefer to read on line.  I can't get excited that the temperature in Covington is 2° lower than in Rome.  We get the BBC on our cable provider, and they offer a kind of different "slant" on news, more international and less US focused.  I glance at that for a few if I'm bored and tired of watching replays of CFB games from last season ....)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 20, 2023, 05:42:04 AM

Emmanuel Macron's leadership in France at risk amid tensions over pension plan : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2023/03/20/1164639232/emmanuel-macron-faces-no-confidence-votes-as-pressure-builds-from-pension-protes)

The US of course faces something similar with SS and Medicare, and anyone in Congress who proposes ANYTHING to fix them gets pilloried.  Third rail of politics etc.

So, we drift along closer and closer to danger, knowing it's there, doing nothing about it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 20, 2023, 06:45:24 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 20, 2023, 05:27:31 AM

Legit point, I actually skipped over it.  It is an opinion piece, so I grant latitude in such things, but it is a sign of "bias".  I thought perhaps someone could rebut the piece with other information the writer failed to offer, but I understand the point that such drivel isn't worth one's time.

(I almost never watch news on TV because it's so much faster to read on line.  My wife turns on the local news at times when I'm around, mostly for weather, which I also prefer to read on line.  I can't get excited that the temperature in Covington is 2° lower than in Rome.  We get the BBC on our cable provider, and they offer a kind of different "slant" on news, more international and less US focused.  I glance at that for a few if I'm bored and tired of watching replays of CFB games from last season ....)

https://www.allsides.com/unbiased-balanced-news

This is a pretty balanced place to get news.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 20, 2023, 08:45:36 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 19, 2023, 09:41:42 PM

And true. 

What is your evidence?
You know, like actual texts and emails that prove what a "news" organization knew was false and still "reporting" it.  Real evidence that they care more about ratings and stock prices than the truth. 
Things like that.
.
I'm looking forward to your forthcoming word salad.  Got my ranch dressing at the ready.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 20, 2023, 08:52:07 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 19, 2023, 04:58:53 PM

And yes- MSNBC is correctly and widely viewed as so far on the left extreme - way beyond CNN or Fox. So it makes total sense to dismiss their garbage. And so- millions do. 

I'm pretty sure MSNBC is viewed by many/most as being far left, whether one uses the term "extreme" is qualitative, and whether they are more extreme than Fox News is also an opinion.  They certainly cater to their audience.  I glance at their web site occasionally mostly to see what they are going on about, same with Fox News (for me).

"Trump is bad, Biden is bad" is the usual drift of things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2023, 08:57:19 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 20, 2023, 08:45:36 AM

I'm looking forward to your forthcoming word salad.  Got my ranch dressing at the ready.

Kamala Harris gibberish word salad compilation - YouTube


 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa7Yfjkedpg)If you look up "word salad" you will find that. Not even reduced-fat ranch can help it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2023, 08:59:10 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 20, 2023, 08:52:07 AM

I'm pretty sure MSNBC is viewed by many/most as being far left, whether one uses the term "extreme" is qualitative, and whether they are more extreme than Fox News is also an opinion.  They certainly cater to their audience.  I glance at their web site occasionally mostly to see what they are going on about, same with Fox News (for me).

"Trump is bad, Biden is bad" is the usual drift of things.

None of these are news sites. They are opinion and entertainment sites. I wish people knew the difference, but only 10 percent (Maybe???) know it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 20, 2023, 09:08:45 AM

some people think "Days of our lives" and "as the world Turns" are real

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2023, 09:09:13 AM

This is starting to become alarming.

Russia Threatens to Blow Up ICC With Hypersonic Missile (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-threatens-to-blow-up-icc-with-hypersonic-missile/ar-AA18QozP?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=0e5489f49774456ca0f6f8916b4351e9&ei=15)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 20, 2023, 09:15:19 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 20, 2023, 08:45:36 AM

What is your evidence?
You know, like actual texts and emails that prove what a "news" organization knew was false and still "reporting" it.  Real evidence that they care more about ratings and stock prices than the truth. 
Things like that.
.
I'm looking forward to your forthcoming word salad.  Got my ranch dressing at the ready.

Sorry woke boy.  I don’t give a shit what you think. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 20, 2023, 09:41:46 AM

They resemble North Korea at times with their "threats".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on March 20, 2023, 09:50:54 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2023, 09:09:13 AM

This is starting to become alarming.

Russia Threatens to Blow Up ICC With Hypersonic Missile (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-threatens-to-blow-up-icc-with-hypersonic-missile/ar-AA18QozP?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=0e5489f49774456ca0f6f8916b4351e9&ei=15)

Putin and his toadies have been talking up their hypersonic missiles and other wonder weapons so much I worry they believe their own invincibility BS.   If they work as advertised, it only gives them a few minutes advantage or respite to their own destruction.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 20, 2023, 09:55:40 AM

An incoming ICBM warhead has always been "hypersonic".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 20, 2023, 12:24:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2023, 09:09:13 AM

This is starting to become alarming.

Russia Threatens to Blow Up ICC With Hypersonic Missile (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-threatens-to-blow-up-icc-with-hypersonic-missile/ar-AA18QozP?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=0e5489f49774456ca0f6f8916b4351e9&ei=15)

They also claimed they would over throw Kyiv in 3 days. Both claims appear to have the same level of accuracy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2023, 12:45:49 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 20, 2023, 12:24:07 PM

They also claimed they would over throw Kyiv in 3 days. Both claims appear to have the same level of accuracy.

Does it not bother you when high-ranking officials in countries that hate us threaten to nuke us? Between this and North Korea, I'm concerned.

We all know which side China is on.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 20, 2023, 12:57:26 PM

He didn't specify it would be a nuclear warhead.  And, no it doesn't bother me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 20, 2023, 01:01:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2023, 12:45:49 PM

Does it not bother you when high-ranking officials in countries that hate us threaten to nuke us? Between this and North Korea, I'm concerned.

We all know which side China is on.

It bothers me slightly. However, the Kremlin has been talking trash about nuking the capitalist pigs since the Eisenhower administration, but is either unable or unwilling to back that up. 

As for the Chinese, they're on their own side and have their own problems. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2023, 01:12:23 PM

When is the last time you've seen either of these two hacks in DC?

(https://i.imgur.com/NyED7q5.jpg)

They are together today, in Moscow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 20, 2023, 01:33:09 PM

Backgrounder: Xi Jinping's previous visits to the United States - Xinhua | English.news.cn (xinhuanet.com) (http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-04/06/c_136187771.htm)

2017, last visit apparently for Xi.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 20, 2023, 01:41:51 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 20, 2023, 01:33:09 PM

Backgrounder: Xi Jinping's previous visits to the United States - Xinhua | English.news.cn (xinhuanet.com) (http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-04/06/c_136187771.htm)

2017, last visit apparently for Xi.

Looks like 2007 for Putin, other than UN trips, last of which appears to be 2015

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 20, 2023, 02:08:57 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 20, 2023, 09:15:19 AM

Sorry woke boy.  I don’t give a shit what you think.

Thank you for proving my point.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 20, 2023, 02:09:55 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2023, 08:57:19 AM

Kamala Harris gibberish word salad compilation - YouTube


 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa7Yfjkedpg)If you look up "word salad" you will find that. Not even reduced-fat ranch can help it.

Looks like HB skipped the word salad and went straight to the insults.  As one does, when unable to provide any actual content.
He might need to change his handle.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 20, 2023, 03:16:20 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2023, 01:12:23 PM

When is the last time you've seen either of these two hacks in DC?

[img width=500 height=279.998]https://i.imgur.com/NyED7q5.jpg[/img]

They are together today, in Moscow.

they deserve each other
Xi obviously has the upper hand today.  I'd guess he has something in mind.
Probably going to get a good deal from Putin

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 20, 2023, 03:19:30 PM

I think Xi wants to be a player, they recently broker some deal between the Saudia and Persians.  He may think he can stop the fighting in Ukraine, a thing Putin likely would welcome.  

I was recently in Cyprus where the Turks and Greeks were going at it in 1974, two NATO countries, and they ended up separating the island with a "Green Line".  And yes, if they did that in Ukraine, it would mean a smaller Ukraine, which I doubt they would agree to.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 20, 2023, 03:41:09 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 20, 2023, 02:08:57 PM

Thank you for proving my point. 

Thank you for proving mine. You weren’t insulted- your clearly extremely proud of your wokeness. 

you have the biggest lack of self awareness of anyone. You want to talk shit about Fox. Fine. But you overlook the same behavior- only worse, more consistent, more obvious and more damaging- from the woke ( your tribe) MSM.

Get back to us when you can explain away, or apologize on behalf of XiNN or MSDNC on any of the following orchestrated lies that are still ongoing:
- Brett Kavanaugh is a serial Rapist
-Russia Russia collusion
- Hunter’s Laptop
- 2 weeks to flatten the curve
-the vaccine won’t work ( Trumps Vaccine)
-now that the vegetable Biden is in charge, The vaccine works and will prevent you from getting sick
-masks are effective
- we never wanted to defund the police
-BLM riots all across the country are peaceful
—police officers were killed on Jan 6
- the origin of Covid possibly coming from a China Lab is a conspiracy 

we will just start there with a small few of the lies that were, and are factually debunked that your woke friends in the media champion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2023, 03:48:32 PM

For those keeping count, that's 7 MNC's.

(https://i.imgur.com/nH50YBx.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 20, 2023, 03:54:07 PM

I didnt even know womens hocky was a sport

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 20, 2023, 03:56:00 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 20, 2023, 09:08:45 AM

some people think "Days of our lives" and "as the world Turns" are real

Same people that take your scorecard at face value

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 20, 2023, 03:56:46 PM

those sporty ladies involved with the Dallas stars are cheerleaders

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 20, 2023, 03:57:09 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 20, 2023, 03:56:00 PM

Same people that take your scorecard at face value

I pity da fools

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2023, 04:09:35 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 20, 2023, 03:54:07 PM

I didnt even know womens hocky was a sport

It's an Olympic sport and many of the northern schools sponsor it. UW plays in the WCHA, along with Minnie and OSU and 5 other schools.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 20, 2023, 04:14:35 PM

another reason the Horns are a better fit in the SEC

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 20, 2023, 04:16:43 PM

UGA Ice Dawgs Hockey (ugahockey.com) (https://www.ugahockey.com/)

(https://i.imgur.com/dULAdtU.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 20, 2023, 04:34:47 PM

Holy smokes... On the Peloton I do what is called Power Zone training, where everything is indexed to your current fitness level. The current fitness level is what is called an FTP test, where you go ALL OUT for 20 minutes. And by all out, people talk about feeling like they need to throw up when they get off the bike. The goal is to get off that bike feeling like you can't push one more rotation of the pedals. 

Well, my first one was Dec 1, so I was overdue to retake the test. So I just did it today. And I was successful--I have progressed and raised my FTP by about 5%. 

And now I feel like I'm gonna die. 

(It seriously took me 20+ minutes of recovery before I could type that.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 20, 2023, 04:50:22 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 20, 2023, 04:14:35 PM

another reason the Horns are a better fit in the SEC

no arguement there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2023, 04:52:18 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 20, 2023, 04:34:47 PM

Holy smokes... On the Peloton I do what is called Power Zone training, where everything is indexed to your current fitness level. The current fitness level is what is called an FTP test, where you go ALL OUT for 20 minutes. And by all out, people talk about feeling like they need to throw up when they get off the bike. The goal is to get off that bike feeling like you can't push one more rotation of the pedals.

Well, my first one was Dec 1, so I was overdue to retake the test. So I just did it today. And I was successful--I have progressed and raised my FTP by about 5%.

And now I feel like I'm gonna die.

(It seriously took me 20+ minutes of recovery before I could type that.)

Great work. I started my gym routine back up today. Hopefully I'll get good results.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 20, 2023, 05:03:27 PM

I go to our gym most days, and/or run, and I'm building back up to 100 pushups a day in three sets.  It helps, but age is definitely working against me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 20, 2023, 05:28:40 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2023, 04:52:18 PM

Great work. I started my gym routine back up today. Hopefully I'll get good results.

Good luck!

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 20, 2023, 05:03:27 PM

I go to our gym most days, and/or run, and I'm building back up to 100 pushups a day in three sets.  It helps, but age is definitely working against me.

Yeah, one of the things I've finally added is dedicated strength work. I feel like I've spent the last 25 years not doing anything strength-specific, which was fine when I was in my 20s and 30s, but will be catching up with me like a mofo as I'm hitting 45 this year. 

Plus, if doing strength (and core strength) work helps me hit a little white ball farther, that's a win, right?!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 20, 2023, 06:21:13 PM

The Mrs. and I have been going to barbell classes at the local gym regularly the last couple of months. Having not picked up an iron weight since high school, the first few times were 

I've also been trying to learn how to swim. It's a work in progress.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 20, 2023, 07:11:01 PM

A few weeks back, I jacked up my ankle and then calf as a result of stumbling while trying to run 10 miles (well, successfully running 10 miles, but more than half of it was on a compromised ankle).

Since then, we mostly have stuck to upper body work, which isn’t bad, but I don’t think I’m pushing myself enough.

Today I tried my second run since getting dinged up. Only 3 miles, and early diagnosis involves calf soreness on the affected leg and a little Achilles weirdness on the other side

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 20, 2023, 07:14:26 PM

I don't run. If you see me running, you should start running or be prepared to kill what's chasing me. And given that I'm 6'5", 265#, and a 2nd degree black belt, you probably need to be heavily armed to kill whatever is chasing me. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 20, 2023, 07:24:47 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 20, 2023, 07:14:26 PM

I don't run. If you see me running, you should start running or be prepared to kill what's chasing me. And given that I'm 6'5", 265#, and a 2nd degree black belt, you probably need to be heavily armed to kill whatever is chasing me.

It sounds like I’ve just gotta run faster than you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 20, 2023, 07:38:24 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 20, 2023, 07:24:47 PM

It sounds like I’ve just gotta run faster than you.

Pretty much. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 20, 2023, 09:23:15 PM

Anytime you tweak an ankle or knee, it's a sonofabitch.  Mobility is kind of a big deal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 20, 2023, 09:33:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 20, 2023, 04:16:43 PM

UGA Ice Dawgs Hockey (ugahockey.com) (https://www.ugahockey.com/)

(https://i.imgur.com/dULAdtU.png)

What an unfortunate name.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 20, 2023, 09:37:32 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on March 20, 2023, 03:41:09 PM

Thank you for proving mine. You weren’t insulted- your clearly extremely proud of your wokeness. 

you have the biggest lack of self awareness of anyone. You want to talk shit about Fox. Fine. But you overlook the same behavior- only worse, more consistent, more obvious and more damaging- from the woke ( your tribe) MSM.

Get back to us when you can explain away, or apologize on behalf of XiNN or MSDNC on any of the following orchestrated lies that are still ongoing:
- Brett Kavanaugh is a serial Rapist
-Russia Russia collusion
- Hunter’s Laptop
- 2 weeks to flatten the curve
-the vaccine won’t work ( Trumps Vaccine)
-now that the vegetable Biden is in charge, The vaccine works and will prevent you from getting sick
-masks are effective
- we never wanted to defund the police
-BLM riots all across the country are peaceful
—police officers were killed on Jan 6
- the origin of Covid possibly coming from a China Lab is a conspiracy

we will just start there with a small few of the lies that were, and are factually debunked that your woke friends in the media champion.

You're obviously a radical....not an insult, just describing that you're far, far away from center.
Hanz!  Bubby!  

Just because you're a radical doesn't mean that people who disagree with you are also radicals.
I know there's nothing I could suggest that you'd acknowledge or agree with.
You don't care about my opinions about the items on your list.  You blindly lump me in with the radicals on the left.

As I've said many times, I'm sorry I'm not the caricature you seemingly wish I was.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 20, 2023, 10:38:19 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 20, 2023, 09:37:32 PM

You're obviously a radical....not an insult, just describing that you're far, far away from center.
Hanz!  Bubby! 

Just because you're a radical doesn't mean that people who disagree with you are also radicals.
I know there's nothing I could suggest that you'd acknowledge or agree with.
You don't care about my opinions about the items on your list.  You blindly lump me in with the radicals on the left.

As I've said many times, I'm sorry I'm not the caricature you seemingly wish I was. 

I love it when you radical wokesters project your own characteristics on to those who see through them.  😂😂.  The libtard playbook. 

as you have repeatedly illustrated on this forum through the years you are as far left of center as you could possibly be. Most of the folks around here are pretty close to the center and that’s why you always have to refer to everyone here as a “ echo chamber”.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 20, 2023, 10:49:08 PM

Is it Neptune?  Mars?  Xenu?  Which is it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2023, 05:08:05 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 20, 2023, 06:21:13 PM

The Mrs. and I have been going to barbell classes at the local gym regularly the last couple of months. Having not picked up an iron weight since high school, the first few times were

I've also been trying to learn how to swim. It's a work in progress.

Ya know, I've owned boats for half of my life, and I really can't swim. I can swim in my pool, but in lakes or oceans I get weirded out. I really like being on top of the water, but I can't walk on it.

Probably could do enough to not drown, but that's about it. It's a work in progress.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 21, 2023, 07:59:40 AM

The smoke alarm saga (cont.):

So, yesterday it starts beeping again.  My wife finds 2 9V bats that are both corroded as heck.  So, I'm off to CVS to buy a 4 pack ($23).  Replace the battery again (I figured the one I used was dead also).  Fine, but the bat door won't close, whatever.

This morning around 0400 it starts beeping again.  I read a bit on line and notice the bat door is supposed to be closed, I order a new smoke alarm.  Old one still beeping.  After my wife gets up, I try again to close the bat door, and force it closed.  No more beeping.  Yay.  Order cancelled.

I had to really push the little door to get it closed, anyway, you might encounter this issue some day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 21, 2023, 08:48:05 AM

Our smoke alarms are all connected to one another and when the battery in one dies, they all start beeping meaning that you essentially have to replace all of the batteries at the same time. And it usually happens in the middle of the night. What a pain in the rear. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2023, 08:51:45 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 21, 2023, 08:48:05 AM

Our smoke alarms are all connected to one another and when the battery in one dies, they all start beeping meaning that you essentially have to replace all of the batteries at the same time. And it usually happens in the middle of the night. What a pain in the rear.

Always.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 21, 2023, 08:54:46 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 20, 2023, 05:28:40 PM

Plus, if doing strength (and core strength) work helps me hit a little white ball farther, that's a win, right?!

Sounds like cheating 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on March 21, 2023, 08:55:32 AM

And you want to murder someone or kill yourself for having one located 16 feet off the ground mounted to a cathedral ceiling.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2023, 08:56:37 AM

Quote from: MarqHusker on March 21, 2023, 08:55:32 AM

And you want to murder someone or kill yourself for having one located 16 feet off the ground mounted to a cathedral ceiling.

Been there.

I used to go up and do it. Now I write checks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 21, 2023, 09:06:09 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2023, 05:08:05 AM

Ya know, I've owned boats for half of my life, and I really can't swim. I can swim in my pool, but in lakes or oceans I get weirded out. I really like being on top of the water, but I can't walk on it.

Probably could do enough to not drown, but that's about it. It's a work in progress.

Just remain calm...as the Jaws music repeats in your mind....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 21, 2023, 09:20:42 AM

Swimming is tough for me.  I don't float.  Something about body density or whatever, but I genuinely don't float.  Not even in saltwater.

So if I'm in the water, I have to constantly be moving, treading water or attempting to swim, to stay on top of it.  It tires a person out pretty quickly.

I know how to swim, and I can swim some laps when I want, and I can swim well enough to get to the edge of the lake if my boat goes down in the middle, but I'll never be a triathlete, that's for sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 21, 2023, 09:23:09 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 20, 2023, 07:11:01 PM

A few weeks back, I jacked up my ankle and then calf as a result of stumbling while trying to run 10 miles (well, successfully running 10 miles, but more than half of it was on a compromised ankle).

Since then, we mostly have stuck to upper body work, which isn’t bad, but I don’t think I’m pushing myself enough.

Today I tried my second run since getting dinged up. Only 3 miles, and early diagnosis involves calf soreness on the affected leg and a little Achilles weirdness on the other side

Take it easy on yourself man every heart has only so many beats - don't push it. Learn from the Zen Master Obe Wan Fearless

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 21, 2023, 09:29:22 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 21, 2023, 09:20:42 AM

Swimming is tough for me.  I don't float.  Something about body density or whatever, but I genuinely don't float.  Not even in saltwater.

So if I'm in the water, I have to constantly be moving, treading water or attempting to swim, to stay on top of it.  It tires a person out pretty quickly.

Thanx for the heads up or in your case above water 😎

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 21, 2023, 09:55:32 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 21, 2023, 08:54:46 AM

Sounds like cheating

It's the opposite of that stupid commercial where the guy contemplates, ya know, actually improving his life and fitness, and Fowler tells him "or you could just buy distance play Aerojet".

As for swimming, I swim well enough to not die. That's all I've really set as my goal though. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 21, 2023, 11:08:28 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 21, 2023, 09:55:32 AM

It's the opposite of that stupid commercial where the guy contemplates, ya know, actually improving his life and fitness, and Fowler tells him "or you could just buy distance play Aerojet".

As for swimming, I swim well enough to not die. That's all I've really set as my goal though.

You don't have to swim faster than the shark, you just have to not be the slowest swimmer in the group

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 21, 2023, 11:17:32 AM

Quote from: ELA on March 21, 2023, 11:08:28 AM

You don't have to swim faster than the shark, you just have to not be the slowest swimmer in the group

Despite living here, I don't swim in the ocean (or really even go in). I'm not a beach guy in general. I like drinking in view of water more than going in it. 

If I'm swimming, it's most likely to be in a swimming pool. And if a shark gets me there, well, I guess I had it comin'.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on March 21, 2023, 11:25:11 AM

I’ll admit to being an out of shape fat ass. Been doing jobs that require a certain amount of physical work most of my life. Can’t imagine going to the gym after working in 95 deg  F heat most of the day. And I eat too much. 

But I’d like to lose weight and get in shape. Time seems to be my enemy. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 21, 2023, 11:44:30 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 21, 2023, 11:17:32 AM

Despite living here, I don't swim in the ocean (or really even go in). I'm not a beach guy in general. I like drinking in view of water more than going in it.

If I'm swimming, it's most likely to be in a swimming pool. And if a shark gets me there, well, I guess I had it comin'.

I don't not like being able to see what's below me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 21, 2023, 11:51:40 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 21, 2023, 08:48:05 AM

Our smoke alarms are all connected to one another and when the battery in one dies, they all start beeping meaning that you essentially have to replace all of the batteries at the same time. And it usually happens in the middle of the night. What a pain in the rear.

Just an awful system. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2023, 11:54:54 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 21, 2023, 11:51:40 AM

Just an awful system.

In some places that's in the building code. It was like that in my old home up North. It's not like that here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 21, 2023, 12:16:07 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 21, 2023, 11:51:40 AM

Just an awful system.

The theory is that if a fire breaks out in one part of the house, the detectors will alert everyone in the entire house of the fire. However, I am about to disconnect them from each other and leave them as stand alone detectors. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 21, 2023, 12:19:01 PM

Quote from: ELA on March 21, 2023, 11:08:28 AM

You don't have to swim faster than the shark, you just have to not be the slowest swimmer in the group

We used say that about the bears in Quebec/N.Ontario on fishing trips. Had a few close calls to,turns out I have another gear when threatened with getting shredded comes into play

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 21, 2023, 12:27:39 PM

Quote from: Gigem on March 21, 2023, 11:25:11 AM

But I’d like to lose weight and get in shape. Time seems to be my enemy.

I'm finding that losing weight is more about what you put into your face than what you do exercise-wise. After dropping roughly 15 pounds since I started exercising again, I've now been plateaued for a couple of months at least. I can see the physical changes from all the exercise, but the weight isn't actively dropping. Too much beer, probably. 

I'm not focusing on that side of it much right now. I'm certainly heavier than I should be, but they say one of the metrics for men is keeping your waist <40", and even at 260# I'm fitting comfortably into 38" jeans. And I have slimmed down enough that I can at least see where my abs should be lol... I assume that as I build strength it'll continue to raise my metabolism and if the pounds drop slowly I'm not worried. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 21, 2023, 12:28:53 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 21, 2023, 12:16:07 PM

The theory is that if a fire breaks out in one part of the house, the detectors will alert everyone in the entire house of the fire. However, I am about to disconnect them from each other and leave them as stand alone detectors.

Here in CA the houses are small enough that one single smoke detector will alert everyone in the house (and probably half the neighbors) without a problem. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on March 21, 2023, 12:31:18 PM

I’m at 260-270 (6-3). Waist was 38 for a long, long time but finally conceded to 40 a few years back. But I seem to be holding there. I agree on what goes into your mouth, not ready to make changes yet I guess. Talk is cheap. 

On the other hand, I am an excellent swimmer. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 21, 2023, 01:10:53 PM

I had no idea we had so many giants among us.  I'm a measly 5'10".  Currently weigh around 190 which is about 20-25 lbs heavier than I need to be.  I generally drop a decent amount of weight in the spring and that's currently underway, but it's not happening nearly as fast as it did 10 years ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 21, 2023, 01:12:53 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 21, 2023, 01:10:53 PM

I had no idea we had so many giants among us.  I'm a measly 5'10".  Currently weigh around 190 which is about 20-25 lbs heavier than I need to be.  I generally drop a decent amount of weight in the spring and that's currently underway, but it's not happening nearly as fast as it did 10 years ago.

6’3 240.  🥴. Should be 215.   Working on it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on March 21, 2023, 01:18:09 PM

220 is a very comfortable weight for me. Have not been that thin since 2102/2013. 

Took a day job that was very sedentary for a few years. Didn’t slow my eating. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 21, 2023, 01:28:59 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 21, 2023, 12:16:07 PM

The theory is that if a fire breaks out in one part of the house, the detectors will alert everyone in the entire house of the fire. However, I am about to disconnect them from each other and leave them as stand alone detectors.

I get it, but if you don’t have a good indicator, you’re just wasting a customer’s time. 

It can’t be that hard to have a flashing light on the one that’s the issue. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 21, 2023, 01:41:10 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 21, 2023, 01:10:53 PM

I had no idea we had so many giants among us.  I'm a measly 5'10".  Currently weigh around 190 which is about 20-25 lbs heavier than I need to be.  I generally drop a decent amount of weight in the spring and that's currently underway, but it's not happening nearly as fast as it did 10 years ago.

6'5" 260#. 

Ideal weight would probably be around 240. Which would still put me at a BMI of 28.5, but my own primary care doctor told me I should never pay attention to BMI because I have well above average muscle mass. Before exercising I was getting close to 280, and that was a little too tubby for my taste lol. So my goal will be to gain muscle and lower my body fat percentage, but I'm much less concerned about what the scale says. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 21, 2023, 01:56:21 PM

Yeah BMI tend to misrepresent me as well, due to above average muscle mass and body density.  Hence, the sinking rather than floating.

But I have a very good idea of exactly where my weight needs to be, given my normal body mass makeup characteristics.  At 165-170, I'm properly lean and fit, given what I would consider to be a "normal" amount of exercise (which I had been neglecting up until the New Year).  Sitting at 190, I'm not there.  And we're headed to the beach in June so I have to get my summer beach body going on :)



 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 21, 2023, 02:00:02 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 21, 2023, 01:56:21 PM

Yeah BMI tend to misrepresent me as well, due to above average muscle mass and body density.  Hence, the sinking rather than floating.

But I have a very good idea of exactly where my weight needs to be, given my normal body mass makeup characteristics.  At 165-170, I'm properly lean and fit, given what I would consider to be a "normal" amount of exercise (which I had been neglecting up until the New Year).  Sitting at 190, I'm not there.  And we're headed to the beach in June so I have to get my summer beach body going on :)

At 190, you might actually float :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 21, 2023, 02:07:21 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 21, 2023, 02:00:02 PM

At 190, you might actually float :57:

Sadly, no.  I must be big-boned and thick-skinned... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 21, 2023, 02:32:06 PM

Have you checked for leaks?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 21, 2023, 02:35:35 PM

uhhhhh

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 21, 2023, 02:53:39 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 21, 2023, 07:59:40 AM

The smoke alarm saga (cont.):

So, yesterday it starts beeping again.  My wife finds 2 9V bats that are both corroded as heck.  So, I'm off to CVS to buy a 4 pack ($23).  Replace the battery again (I figured the one I used was dead also).  Fine, but the bat door won't close, whatever.

This morning around 0400 it starts beeping again.  

about 2015 I bought a Kidde smoke and carbon monoxide detector (https://amzn.to/3fSAPMl) with 10 yr sealed cell batteries. Well after one year the 1st one crapped out so i broke out the other one and almost the same amount of time it went south also. Didn't have the package or receipt as i didn't expect. I hope to God somewhere there is an evil gnome pissing in their cherios. And at the time I bought them the 2 pk was 35 bucks - no excuse for crap like that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 21, 2023, 02:55:07 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 21, 2023, 12:28:53 PM

Here in CA the houses are small enough that one single smoke detector will alert everyone in the house (and probably half the neighbors) without a problem.

Like mine much easier to clean though.And my alarms died after a 2 yrs but I have 2 parrots and I;m very careful

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 21, 2023, 02:58:37 PM

Quote from: Gigem on March 21, 2023, 11:25:11 AM

But I’d like to lose weight and get in shape.

Round is a shape don't let them BS you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 22, 2023, 01:54:19 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2023, 09:09:13 AM

This is starting to become alarming.

Russia Threatens to Blow Up ICC With Hypersonic Missile (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-threatens-to-blow-up-icc-with-hypersonic-missile/ar-AA18QozP?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=0e5489f49774456ca0f6f8916b4351e9&ei=15)

Lol. Just media BS. How is it any more alarming than the US govt passing the Hague Invasion Act into law or US govt placing sanctions on ICC investigators who were discussing the possibility of investigating Americans for war crimes in Afghanistan.

Russia does not recognize the ICC as legitimate. Neither does the US. Neither country is a party to the ICC treaty. The ICC is a giant circle jerk nothing-berger fkn joke of twats in the Netherlands. Russia doesn't need to blow it up or threaten to blow it up. ICC has no power or jurisdiction over jacksh*t. Their little arrest warrant of Putin is a dog and pony show to distract from the fact that Ukraine is getting slaughtered in this proxy war despite the US govt best efforts to throw an endless amount of money and intel Ukraine's way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 22, 2023, 02:01:19 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2023, 01:12:23 PM

When is the last time you've seen either of these two hacks in DC?

(https://i.imgur.com/NyED7q5.jpg)

They are together today, in Moscow.

I wouldn't say they are hacks. I'd say they are more or less effective dictators of their respective countries.

Speaking of DC, you want to see hacks, there are plenty of those there- starting with our dear leader- Sleepy Joe. The only bigger hack leader in the west might be Canada's leader Justine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 22, 2023, 02:06:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 20, 2023, 03:19:30 PM

I think Xi wants to be a player, they recently broker some deal between the Saudia and Persians.  He may think he can stop the fighting in Ukraine, a thing Putin likely would welcome.

China definitely wants to be THE worlds super power. It's a stated goal of that country. Brokering a deal between the Saudis (our biggest ally in the mideast) and Iran (our biggest enemy in the mideast) was most definitely a huge deal and left egg on the face of 'Merica on the worlds stage.

If China was able to bring about the end of the war in Ukraine- a proxy war of the US- which the US has kept going to the tune of $100+ billion (in a single fkn year btw) in aid to Ukraine plus all kinds of intel & strategtic planning & military training- yeah- would be a bad look for the US and just be more hits and damage to this country on the worlds stage.

China has leverage over both countries. Russia needs a customer for their energy and they want Chinese weapons systems. Ukraine does not want China to give Russia weapons. Obviously. They might be able to help bring about an end to this awful war. Someone has to step up and try and do it. It clearly won't be the US, so I don't care if it's China.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 22, 2023, 02:08:42 PM

Lulz.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 22, 2023, 02:10:32 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 22, 2023, 02:08:42 PM

Lulz.

sorry, guess I don't see the destruction of an entire country and the US engaging in a proxy war to "bleed Russia dry" (Hilary Clinton's words on MSNBC, not mine) as lulz. to each his own though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 22, 2023, 02:12:58 PM

Hillary Clinton doesn't speak for me, or for the US, or anyone else of consequence.  You can choose to listen to her blatherings and get all worked up over them if you like.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 22, 2023, 02:29:36 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 22, 2023, 02:12:58 PM

Hillary Clinton doesn't speak for me, or for the US, or anyone else of consequence.  You can choose to listen to her blatherings and get all worked up over them if you like.

she is the ultimate insider, a living breathing embodiment of the establishment of DC which dictates policy and runs this country. her mindset is the same mindset of the people in this current administration- many of the same people she worked with in the Obama administration and many of the same people who worked for her husband in his administration. it's obvious to anyone with a brain what the US end game is. US wants to bleed Russia out and they want to push them out of Europe, they do not care if Ukraine gets destroyed and devastated in the process. At all. They don't want Russian energy being sold in Europe and they don't want Russia to have influence in Europe. Europe is OUR shit. Think of countries as gangs, it makes even more sense. US is the biggest baddest gang, and Europe is OUR turf. As the first Secretary General of NATO Baron Ismay said long ago, the purpose of NATO was to keep the Russians out of Europe, the Americans in, and the Germans down. Russia snuck into Europe via oil & natural gas, and well we want them the fk off OUR turf. 

US govt doesn't give a flying fk what happens to the people of Ukraine. US does not care about democracy, the territorial integrity of sovereign nations, international law, or any of that- and anyone who believes that load of crap is naive and might as well still believe in Santa Clause or the tooth fairy. The US is a great power, THE great power in the world, and like all great powers before it since the beginning of time it deals only in self interest.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 22, 2023, 10:24:25 PM

Well said.
And that's why the rest of the world either hates us or fears us so much that they befriend us.
.
Imagine if (insert country here) had the biggest economy, 80% of the aircraft carriers, whatever % of the scary nuclear subs, whatever % of the nukes, was the only country so far to use nukes, and had military bases - MAJOR bases that encircled the planet.
Yeah, you should probably play nice with them.  Stay on their good side.
But you'd be scared of them.  And you'd resent them.  Especially if they were trillions in debt.  Especially if they took over a country that never attacked them (Iraq).  Especially if they stuck their nose in every conflict, requested or not. 
.
The other countries that hate us don't hate us because we have freedom, it's because we're the biggest and strongest with an 85 IQ.  Our dominance is so redundant that it doesn't let anyone else in the world even breathe.
I love the U.S., but we're much more often a bloated embarrassment than a shining example.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 22, 2023, 10:36:23 PM

The 1%ers are a problem and Hillery damn sure isn't an answer....or an insider

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on March 23, 2023, 07:21:29 AM

Please proceed to your bunkers in an orderly manner.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2023/03/21/tiktok-time-traveler-eno-alaric-says-aliens-will-invade-on-march-23/ (https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2023/03/21/tiktok-time-traveler-eno-alaric-says-aliens-will-invade-on-march-23/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 23, 2023, 08:43:09 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on March 23, 2023, 07:21:29 AM

Please proceed to your bunkers in an orderly manner.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2023/03/21/tiktok-time-traveler-eno-alaric-says-aliens-will-invade-on-march-23/ (https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2023/03/21/tiktok-time-traveler-eno-alaric-says-aliens-will-invade-on-march-23/)

Nope

https://youtu.be/9t1IK_9apWs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 23, 2023, 09:48:01 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/bNDRDBf.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 23, 2023, 10:03:42 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 23, 2023, 09:48:01 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/bNDRDBf.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/VjtnS8u.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on March 23, 2023, 11:43:52 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 22, 2023, 10:36:23 PM

The 1%ers are a problem and Hillery damn sure isn't an answer....or an insider

Which I why I don't understand why conservatives claim the country is run by a bunch of corrupt billionaires (true), yet they elected a corrupt millionaire to fix the problem.

Talk about being scammed.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 23, 2023, 11:54:21 AM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on March 23, 2023, 11:43:52 AM

Which I why I don't understand why conservatives claim the country is run by a bunch of corrupt billionaires (true), yet they elected a corrupt millionaire to fix the problem.

Talk about being scammed. 

If you're talking about Trump, then I'd say the attraction for many of his voters, was that he was not a career politician and he came from "outside the system."  I didn't vote for him but of the people I know who did, they didn't have some false belief that they were sending a "man of the people" to Washington, but they did believe they were sending an outsider, and in that belief, they were correct.

It's one of many reasons the "insiders" bristled at his every word.

And also, because he's a major asshole.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 23, 2023, 12:21:34 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 23, 2023, 11:54:21 AM

If you're talking about Trump, then I'd say the attraction for many of his voters, was that he was not a career politician and he came from "outside the system."  I didn't vote for him but of the people I know who did, they didn't have some false belief that they were sending a "man of the people" to Washington, but they did believe they were sending an outsider, and in that belief, they were correct.

It's one of many reasons the "insiders" bristled at his every word.

And also, because he's a major asshole.

He also puts American interests first unlike the last few dem Presidents weve had
I really dont think hes near as corrupt as Brandon
He doesnt even take a salary as President

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2023, 12:58:26 PM

not taking a presidential salary isn't a big deal

it's not going to bankrupt any president and it certainly won't balance the budget

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2023, 01:02:57 PM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on March 23, 2023, 11:43:52 AM

Which I why I don't understand why conservatives claim the country is run by a bunch of corrupt billionaires (true), yet they elected a corrupt millionaire to fix the problem.

most folks on either side of the aisle think the country and the world are run by a bunch of corrupt billionaires

there isn't a man on the planet that can be elected to fix the problem

most folks know this as well

a very small minority think that "their" guy can fix things, but that small minority is naïve at best and foolish for sure. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 23, 2023, 01:19:33 PM

to me if Brandon runs again the choice is real simple

Its hard for me to believe someone would choose Brandon over Trump

Under Trump we will have

secure southern border

low gas prices

low inflation

better foreign relations

lower unemployment

Ukraine / Russia peace agreement

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2023, 01:25:49 PM

The European Best Sniper Team Competition

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/18-countries-sent-sharpshooters-to-a-us-military-base-in-germany-to-see-who-has-the-best-sniper-team-in-europe/ar-AA18XolP?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=d93db5d012e4454f8bd49885e0d600fd&ei=38 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/18-countries-sent-sharpshooters-to-a-us-military-base-in-germany-to-see-who-has-the-best-sniper-team-in-europe/ar-AA18XolP?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=d93db5d012e4454f8bd49885e0d600fd&ei=38)

Snipers from Greece's Special Paratroopers Section, known as the ETA for its Greek initials, came in first. Teams from Latvia and Italy were second and third, while another Greek special-operations team from the Z'MAK amphibious special missions unit was fourth. A Slovenian team rounded out the top five.

Modeled on Britain's SAS, the ETA specializes in strategic reconnaissance and direct-action missions. It has less than 100 operators who are divided into six teams, each of which specializes in a different insertion method, such as free-fall parachuting, combat diving, and mountain warfare.

The ETA also recently received the highest operational certification from NATO's Special Operations Headquarters.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2023, 01:39:57 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 23, 2023, 12:21:34 PM

He also puts American interests first unlike the last few dem Presidents weve had
I really dont think hes near as corrupt as Brandon
He doesnt even take a salary as President

Really well-thought-out, reasoned points here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 23, 2023, 01:43:02 PM

https://twitter.com/ContextFreeCBB/status/1638741069503565824?t=u-wl0NAHTu1PNZgoGbLRHQ&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 23, 2023, 01:48:46 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2023, 01:39:57 PM

Really well-thought-out, reasoned points here.

thank you

yes they are

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2023, 01:51:19 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 23, 2023, 01:19:33 PM

to me if Brandon runs again the choice is real simple

Its hard for me to believe someone would choose Brandon over Trump

Under Trump we will have

secure southern border

low gas prices

low inflation

better foreign relations

lower unemployment

Ukraine / Russia peace agreement

I miss the days when you guys pretended to have the moral high ground.  
Oh well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2023, 01:56:53 PM

(https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AA18X17s.img?w=534&h=301&m=6)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 23, 2023, 02:17:36 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2023, 01:51:19 PM

I miss the days when you guys pretended to have the moral high ground. 
Oh well.

what in hell are you talking about

do you even know

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2023, 02:52:20 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2023, 01:51:19 PM

I miss the days when you guys pretended to have the moral high ground. 
Oh well.

I miss the days when this place wasn't political. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2023, 02:53:11 PM

post of the month

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 23, 2023, 02:59:07 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2023, 02:52:20 PM

I miss the days when this place wasn't political.

well Brad we dont always get what we want

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 23, 2023, 07:36:11 PM

I think we should dial it back

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 23, 2023, 08:08:31 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 23, 2023, 02:59:07 PM

well Brad we dont always get what we want

Correct.

I want less of this trash, and I get more. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 23, 2023, 09:06:07 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 23, 2023, 08:08:31 PM

Correct.

I want less of this trash, and I get more.

Im sure theres a safe space some place

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 23, 2023, 09:11:52 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 23, 2023, 09:06:07 PM

Im sure theres a safe space some place

Eh, this place used to have a strict no-politics policy, and it was better for it.  It's not about safe spaces, it's just about avoiding annoying bullshit distractions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 23, 2023, 09:19:28 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 23, 2023, 09:11:52 PM

Eh, this place used to have a strict no-politics policy, and it was better for it.  It's not about safe spaces, it's just about avoiding annoying bullshit distractions.

This thread has been spicifically reserved to be a political thread

When the powers on high change that policy I will respect it

until then if you dont want to deal with anything political stay the hell away from this thread

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 23, 2023, 09:23:49 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 23, 2023, 09:19:28 PM

This thread has been spicifically reserved to be a political thread

When the powers on high change that policy I will respect it

until then if you dont want to deal with anything political stay the hell away from this thread

This is the In Other News thread.

And if you don't want to hear what I have to say, you're invited to fuck right off as well.

See, we can both do that.  It's pointless.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 23, 2023, 09:26:33 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 23, 2023, 09:23:49 PM

This is the In Other News thread.

And if you don't want to hear what I have to say, you're invited to fuck right off as well.

See, we can both do that.  It's pointless.

Ive always enjoyed your posts
You may post here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2023, 09:27:24 PM

there are 2 or 3 threads I avoid

could be 4 or 5 in the future

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 23, 2023, 09:28:32 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 23, 2023, 09:26:33 PM

Ive always enjoyed your posts
You may post here

Well alright then, dammit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 23, 2023, 09:28:58 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 23, 2023, 09:27:24 PM

there are 2 or 3 threads I avoid

could be 4 or 5 in the future

just dont bring back the jeep discussion

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 23, 2023, 09:29:28 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 23, 2023, 09:27:24 PM

there are 2 or 3 threads I avoid

could be 4 or 5 in the future

What are the 2 or 3 threads?  Be honest... the "Welcome Nebraska" thread is one of them, isn't it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 23, 2023, 09:30:23 PM

you guys better mellow out or I'll bring in MDot for real political views

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2023, 09:30:41 PM

LH320 has always enjoyed posts that invite him to fuck right off

just not from OAM

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2023, 09:32:17 PM

I always avoid the "Resident Genius: Final 2022 Results" thread

hoping it doesn't get bumped again

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 23, 2023, 09:33:06 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 23, 2023, 09:28:58 PM

just dont bring back the jeep discussion

(https://i.imgur.com/vFQVbNQ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 23, 2023, 09:33:36 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 23, 2023, 09:30:41 PM

LH320 has always enjoyed posts that invite him to fuck right off

just not from OAM

I'll take that as a good day greeting from another Texan but not yankees

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 23, 2023, 09:34:11 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 23, 2023, 09:33:06 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/vFQVbNQ.png)

shithead

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 23, 2023, 09:35:42 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 23, 2023, 09:34:11 PM

shithead

NOW we are finally communicating!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2023, 09:43:27 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 23, 2023, 09:33:36 PM

I'll take that as a good day greeting from another Texan but not yankees

as far as I know, OAM was born and raised south of you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 24, 2023, 12:44:28 AM

I don't always hate good intelligent political debate. But when the monkeys on both sides are flinging feces at each other, it's hard not to be splattered with shit even when you're trying to stay on the sidelines.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 24, 2023, 02:27:00 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 24, 2023, 12:44:28 AM

I don't always hate good intelligent political debate. But when the monkeys on both sides are flinging feces at each other, it's hard not to be splattered with shit even when you're trying to stay on the sidelines.

Longhorn's reading this and starts typing something about "if we came from monkeys, then why are there still monkeys?"
.
Would that be an example of feces flinging?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 02:39:41 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 24, 2023, 12:44:28 AM

I don't always hate good intelligent political debate. But when the monkeys on both sides are flinging feces at each other, it's hard not to be splattered with shit even when you're trying to stay on the sidelines.

I guess the best thing for you to do is just stay away from this thread so you dont get splattered

I think its a shame if you do because you probably have a lot of well thought out points to make

but I dont think we have a no splatter zone

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 24, 2023, 02:50:53 AM

This thread is for anyone who wants to frequent it.  We should all do better to make it more palatable for everyone. 
Including past monkeys, current humans, and current monkeys.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 24, 2023, 07:16:19 AM

I don't think that Fro knows the difference between a monkey and an ape. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 24, 2023, 07:46:28 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 23, 2023, 09:33:36 PM

I'll take that as a good day greeting from another Texan but not yankees

Fook Off

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 24, 2023, 07:50:30 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 23, 2023, 09:06:07 PM

Im sure theres a safe space some place

Well the Cook Book Discussion Thread - if you avoid the recipes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 07:53:00 AM

Even short vacations get tiring at my age, for one thing, I may not sleep well in a motel.  

We came back down I-85 which is a mess outside the Perimeter all the time, maybe not 3 AM.  I'd hate to live out that way and have to use it often, stop and go for about 10 miles at 2 PM for no apparent reason.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 24, 2023, 08:18:29 AM

It's hard to sleep in a hotel sometimes. It's all about the bed. We have good luck with Hilton places.

Ah, politics. I started a "policy" thread way back, and it turned South because policy is very much tied to the tribes. It's a lost cause.

It's probably time to stop it around here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 08:28:42 AM

I don't seem to have much trouble sleeping in hotels, even crappy hotels

but, I eat and drink well, and my mind is at ease

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 08:30:01 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 02:39:41 AM

but I dont think we have a no splatter zone

imo, we should

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 08:30:47 AM

We stayed at a very nice place in the mountains, but to save a buck, I opted for a "queen suite", forgetting how small a queen is when you're used to a king.

I slept OK, but my wife said she didn't.  I agree Hilton places generally have decent mattresses and are clean.  We stayed at a HI "Expess" in Dahlonega that we knew was well maintained.  And it's right on the square.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 08:37:47 AM

Russia de-mothballs tanks from the 1950s and sends them to war – CIT | Ukrainska Pravda (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/03/22/7394567/)

The Russian military has de-mothballed the T-54/55 medium tanks and started sending them from Russia’s Far East to the combat zone in Ukraine. The tanks were made in the 1940s and the 1950s. Investigators of the Conflict Intelligence Team have obtained photographs of a train transporting military vehicles from Russia’s Far East.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 08:48:25 AM

I think it's a great idea.  Not sure why the US isn't sending otherwise useless older weapons to Ukraine to be used up.

It's still a tank, better than state of the art body armor 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 08:53:05 AM

no one speaks about the banana lobby.......... oops

Bananas rank fourth after rice, wheat, and maize in human food consumption. They are grown in 130 countries worldwide, more than any other fruit crop. In popular culture and commerce, "banana" usually refers to the soft, sweet "dessert" bananas that are usually eaten raw. The bananas from a group of cultivars with firmer, starchier fruit, generally used in cooking rather than eaten raw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 08:55:50 AM

DONETSK REGION, Ukraine (AP) — Skimming the treetops, three Soviet-era attack helicopters bank and swoop down on a field after an early-morning mission to the front lines in the fight against Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

Each day, they might fly three or four sorties, says the commander, whose two-crew Mi-24 helicopter, built about 40 years ago, is older than he is.

“We are carrying out combat tasks to destroy enemy vehicles, enemy personnel, we are working with pitch-up attacks from a distance from where the enemy can’t get us with their air defense system,” said the commander, who spoke on condition of anonymity for operational security reasons, in line with military regulations.

The conflict in Ukraine is largely an artillery war, with territory being fought for inch by inch under a barrage of shells and missiles. But Ukraine’s aviation capabilities play a significant role in the fight, the pilot said.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 09:02:04 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 08:48:25 AM

It's still a tank, better than state of the art body armor

For protection, sure, but it also makes a fine target to any number of anti-tank weapons.  They tend to stand out.

Against a Leopard 2 or M1A2 or Chieftan, they'd just be targets.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 09:10:47 AM

well then, use them for targets to distract the enemy.

better use than sitting in a grave yard in Nevada or wherever

a better target for Russian artillery and missiles than an apartment building

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 09:11:56 AM

I'd think about using blown up "balloons" that look like tanks and have a heat signature.

Cheaper, much easier to transport, etc.  We did that in WW II.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 09:16:09 AM

Ford to Lose $3 Billion on EVs This Year, but Sales Are Rising (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43399188/ford-ev-sales-to-lose-3-billion/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR04I1J5HcgrcbBgfffF3WKCn4DLrwr7e-mikMgoJjeWTg-56TPaTg1hwt8)

Losses from the EV division will be covered by an expected increase in profits for the other two Ford divisions, with Lawler projecting $7 billion in earnings before interest and taxes this year for Ford Blue, and roughly $6 billion for Ford Pro. Speaking to reporters, Lawler explained the reasoning behind the expected losses for the Model e arm of the business.

MORE FORD STORIES

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 24, 2023, 09:30:03 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 23, 2023, 09:06:07 PM

Im sure theres a trash-free safe space some place

This place was that. Now it is not. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 10:07:44 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 09:11:56 AM

I'd think about using blown up "balloons" that look like tanks and have a heat signature.

Cheaper, much easier to transport, etc.  We did that in WW II.

maybe we have some of them in mothballs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on March 24, 2023, 10:20:33 AM

Pffft.  We’re still flying the B-52, the last of which was made in 1957. And we’re scheduled to keep flying them for decades, at which point the air frames will be 90 years old. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 10:34:12 AM

Of course, a B-52 would be very vulnerable in any contested air space, but "we" often don't face that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 10:46:27 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 24, 2023, 08:18:29 AM

It's hard to sleep in a hotel sometimes. It's all about the bed. We have good luck with Hilton places.

Ah, politics. I started a "policy" thread way back, and it turned South because policy is very much tied to the tribes. It's a lost cause.

It's probably time to stop it around here.

this thread has over 1500 pages and half of that is political

if you want to ban political discussion on the only thread that allows it 

fine go ahead but please enforce it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 24, 2023, 10:52:54 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 23, 2023, 11:54:21 AM

If you're talking about Trump, then I'd say the attraction for many of his voters, was that he was not a career politician and he came from "outside the system."  I didn't vote for him but of the people I know who did, they didn't have some false belief that they were sending a "man of the people" to Washington, but they did believe they were sending an outsider, and in that belief, they were correct.

It's one of many reasons the "insiders" bristled at his every word.

And also, because he's a major asshole.

his anti-establishment rhetoric got him elected. he was pretending to be a man of the people. he's obviously not. he's an extremely wealthy, famous person. he promised to "drain the swap". problem is, when he got into office he hired basically everyone from said swap. he didn't drain ish. he hired people like Mike Pence, Mike Pompeo, and John Bolton. 

maybe the one thing I can give the guy credit for is he didn't start any new wars, one of the first presidents in decades you can say that about- and I very much doubt we'd be out of Afghanistan if he hadn't pushed so hard to get out- despite the entire military industrial complex and republican establishment pushing back on him on that and trying to road block him at every single turn. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 24, 2023, 10:56:05 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 23, 2023, 01:51:19 PM

I miss the days when you guys pretended to have the moral high ground. 
Oh well.

neither party is moral. they are centers of power, not centers of morality. 

all we have is bad option A and bad option B- and try to pick the better option between two sh*t sandwiches. I'm not great fan of Trump, I just think he's a better option than Biden. 

Until we get rid of money in elections and break the two party duopoly we'll just continue to have to pick between two really sh*tty options until the end of time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 10:58:40 AM

The Electoral College virtually guarantees a two party system short of a real meltdown of a current party.  We have "independents" in the Senate, but really in name only.  And the got elected as Dems.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 11:15:09 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 10:58:40 AM

The Electoral College virtually guarantees a two party system short of a real meltdown of a current party.  We have "independents" in the Senate, but really in name only.  And the got elected as Dems.

so do you want many parties like France has

nothing wrong with a two party system

plus these parties change over time

The dem party of today is no where the same party back in JFKs day

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 11:18:55 AM

I offered no opinion as to what I would prefer.  My thought is that the EC isn't going away, so it's moot.  (I know there is an effort by some states to sidestep it.)

I don't think any third party can survive here UNLESS one of the two really collapses.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 11:21:45 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 11:18:55 AM

I offered no opinion as to what I would prefer.  My thought is that the EC isn't going away, so it's moot.  (I know there is an effort by some states to sidestep it.)

I don't think any third party can survive here UNLESS one of the two really collapses.

you offered an opinion when you said a 2 party system is guaranteed

thats called opinion

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 11:23:35 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 11:15:09 AM

so do you want many parties like France has

nothing wrong with a two party system

plus these parties change over time

The dem party of today is no where the same party back in JFKs day

I sure wish both parties would change drastically for the better
I don't think they will.
I agree with Cincy........ a 3rd party has no chance
It's sad

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 11:26:14 AM

Why do you suppose anyone 70+ years old wants to stay in Congress?  Or politics of any sort?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 11:26:58 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 11:23:35 AM

I sure wish both parties would change drastically for the better
I don't think they will.
I agree with Cincy........ a 3rd party has no chance
It's sad

not sure why having more then two parties would change things

having 2 people in a room arguing is not made better by putting a 3rd person in the romm also arguing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 11:28:33 AM

I think the idea is not to have three parties, but to see some new party emerge and replace one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 11:30:09 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 11:26:14 AM

Why do you suppose anyone 70+ years old wants to stay in Congress?  Or politics of any sort?

there could be many reasons some good and some bad but I wouldnt draw the line at 70

there are many 70 year olds that are very much alert and capable

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 11:31:06 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 11:28:33 AM

I think the idea is not to have three parties, but to see some new party emerge and replace one.

great now what has this solved

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 11:36:24 AM

Ask someone who thinks it would solve anything.

It's highly improbable in my view, so not really worth notioning.  But some folks think a magical different major party would be more ... sensible.  I think if somehow magically it was initially, in ten years it wouldn't be.  It's the System that causes this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 11:39:45 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 11:36:24 AM

Ask someone who thinks it would solve anything.

It's highly improbable in my view, so not really worth notioning.  But some folks think a magical different major party would be more ... sensible.  I think if somehow magically it was initially, in ten years it wouldn't be.  It's the System that causes this.

I agree with the first part but not sure what system you are talking about

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 24, 2023, 11:42:13 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 11:26:14 AM

Why do you suppose anyone 70+ years old wants to stay in Congress?  Or politics of any sort?

To answer this, I think we first need to separate "Congress" into it's components. The House and The Senate are VERY different functionally.

In the House there are 435 Representatives which would be inherently unwieldy so to deal with that the House is very much controlled by the leadership. An individual Representative cannot even speak on an issue without being permitted to do so by leadership. Consequently, in the House there are VAST differences in power between high ranking members of leadership and lowly freshman Representatives.

In the Senate there are 100 Senators and they can each more-or-less do their own thing. Each Senator has a right to the floor and only a 3/5 majority can shut them up. Consequently the difference in power between the most and least powerful Senator is much less significant.

In the House I imagine that a lot of times when someone wants to stay it is largely because they know how long it took to get into a position of power and now that they have it, they want to do something with it.

Essentially there is very little point in serving two or three terms in Congress.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 11:44:00 AM

My guess is folks love being in Congress because of the status is affords them.  They get treated as "important people", and that's something meaningful to a lot of humans.

It can be more important than money.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 11:48:54 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 11:44:00 AM

My guess is folks love being in Congress because of the status is affords them.  They get treated as "important people", and that's something meaningful to a lot of humans.

It can be more important than money.

is this just a view into why someone wants to go into politics or do you have an additional point to make

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 11:55:12 AM

I think some go into politics to "do good".  I have known a few of these personally.  I think the ones who stay in Congress for decades get addicted to "being somebody".  They can't imagine life without it.

I know a few folks at work who were like that.  They were "somebodys" at work, when retired, they would be just Ol' Joe Codger, what's your handicap?  My former boss is still there working.  Why?  Money?  He'd have plenty.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 12:04:04 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 11:26:58 AM

not sure why having more then two parties would change things

having 2 people in a room arguing is not made better by putting a 3rd person in the romm also arguing

the 3rd person might hopefully be motivated to do something besides arguing

the 2 people in the room have shown for decades, that's mostly what they do w/o any decent work towards improving the country for the people
hell, I don't care how many it is, one, two, three, or more parties.
The American people deserve at least one party that will work for them.
the two we have had for decades are deplorable at best.
We ALL want a change.  This is why Obama and Trump where elected.  Hoping for change.

The two parties in power obviously do NOT want change.
They are both fat and happy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 12:04:48 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 11:55:12 AM

I think some go into politics to "do good".  I have known a few of these personally.  I think the ones who stay in Congress for decades get addicted to "being somebody".  They can't imagine life without it.

I know a few folks at work who were like that.  They were "somebodys" at work, when retired, they would be just Ol' Joe Codger, what's your handicap?  My former boss is still there working.  Why?  Money?  He'd have plenty. 

I understand your point and agree some folks like the power now is this bad and if so what can be done about it

this is not limited to elected positions as there are many in the private who like the power it gives them

so is this bad 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 12:07:45 PM

power is bad obviously when it leads to corruption

many folks can't handle the power and are corrupted by it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 12:10:00 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 12:04:04 PM

the 3rd person might hopefully be motivated to do something besides arguing

the 2 people in the room have shown for decades, that's mostly what they do w/o any decent work towards improving the country for the people
hell, I don't care how many it is, one, two, three, or more parties.
The American people deserve at least one party that will work for them.
the two we have had for decades are deplorable at best.
We ALL want a change.  This is why Obama and Trump where elected.  Hoping for change.

The two parties in power obviously do NOT want change.
They are both fat and happy

this is from your view point
from my view my party wants to good for America and the other party doesnt
thats basically why and how parties are formed

your view is only satisfied when a party comes along whose beliefs agree with yours

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 12:10:39 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 12:07:45 PM

power is bad obviously when it leads to corruption

many folks can't handle the power and are corrupted by it

which is why we have elections

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 24, 2023, 12:13:28 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 12:04:04 PM

We ALL want a change.  This is why Obama and Trump where elected.  Hoping for change.

The two parties in power obviously do NOT want change.
They are both fat and happy

If you put a far leftist and a far rightist in a room and ask "Do you want change?" The vote will be 2-0 in favor of change.

That doesn't mean that they agree, they don't.  The compromise, frankly, is no change. 

Political parties argue, sure. A whole lot of their supporters do not WANT them to compromise. The far left and far right get MAD AS HELL when elected officials from their side compromise. 

Much as we don't want to admit it, most of the problems with Congress are simply reflections of problems of us. 

Maybe the problem isn't simply that Congress is hopelessly divided but rather that WE are hopelessly divided.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 12:14:07 PM

I think the Powers in both parties want to retain power.  To do that, they pander to their adherents.  They promise if you elect them, all will be well in the world.  But they never seem to deliver because of those other guys.  

They both create fear often from little or nothing.  They can't compromise on any issue because they thrive on having unresolved issues.  If they do appear to compromise a bit, it results in something so watered down it's a nothing.

We have major issues which rarely get mentioned by politicians because they are playing the look over there game.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 12:15:39 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on March 24, 2023, 12:13:28 PM

Maybe the problem isn't simply that Congress is hopelessly divided but rather that WE are hopelessly divided.

Sure, I'd add to that the fact that the extremists on both sides tend to be loudest and most active.  Moderates rarely get fired up over anything.  So, yes, we get little or nothing done legislatively that addresses key issues.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 12:15:49 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on March 24, 2023, 12:13:28 PM

Maybe the problem isn't simply that Congress is hopelessly divided but rather that WE are hopelessly divided.

truer words have never been spoken

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 24, 2023, 12:33:19 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 12:10:00 PM

from my view my party wants to good for America and the other party doesnt

This, right here, is the problem. 

Both parties want to do good for America. They disagree on what that is. But it's an unnecessary (and incorrect) logical leap to say just because you think the effect of policies that the other guy wants aren't good, that their motive is to do harm to America. 

This isn't an attack on you personally, 320. I see this behavior, often, VERY OFTEN, from both sides. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 12:42:52 PM

I note to conservatives that IF somehow magically Bernie and his Bros got their way, we'd be more akin to Denmark.  It wouldn't be what I'd choose of course, but Denmark is a fully functioning country (and nice to visit).  And this of course is an unlikely scenario, a kind of "worst case" for conservatives.  Our liberals in most of Europe would be considered rather conservative, even Bernie would be right of center in France for the most part.

(And I know France has a passle of issues.)

Our rather liberal friends in Cincy expressed astonishment that my wife didn't want to move back to France.  Their view of Europe is, well, not the same as mine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 12:59:31 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 24, 2023, 12:33:19 PM

This, right here, is the problem.

Both parties want to do good for America. They disagree on what that is. But it's an unnecessary (and incorrect) logical leap to say just because you think the effect of policies that the other guy wants aren't good, that their motive is to do harm to America.

This isn't an attack on you personally, 320. I see this behavior, often, VERY OFTEN, from both sides.

never the less I have a set of beliefs developed over my lifetime and Im going to attach to the party that adhears to most of my beliefs and thus will stay away from the party that represents the least of my beliefs

Im not sure how to change this nor that we should change it

its called democracy and every voter gets to choose the direction which agrees with most of thier beliefs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 01:16:05 PM

you know guys has it ever dawned on you that there are people in this country who dont think the system is broken and are very happy with the current government

just because you think the system is broken doesnt mean it is

it might just be that you are frustrated that what you believe isnt being exhibited by the current government and you want to change it

the only solution within our constitution is through voting and having your guy win

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 01:19:31 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 12:10:00 PM

this is from your view point
from my view my party wants to good for America and the other party doesnt
thats basically why and how parties are formed

your view is only satisfied when a party comes along whose beliefs agree with yours

then why doesn't your party do good? 
When was the last time your party had a majority of power in Washington to get things done?
What did your party do at that time to change this country for the better?

If your party's excuse for not getting things done is "the other" party, then there may be a problem with the 2-party system. Or perhaps your party really doesn't care enough to do good, they simply play the blame game with the other party while staying in power.

my view will only be satisfied when any party comes along and does something to improve this country. having beliefs is great.  But, if there's no action it's useless.

similar to climate change beliefs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 01:24:30 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 01:16:05 PM

you know guys has it ever dawned on you that there are people in this country who dont think the system is broken and are very happy with the current government

just because you think the system is broken doesnt mean it is

it might just be that you are frustrated that what you believe isnt being exhibited by the current government and you want to change it

the only solution within our constitution is through voting and having your guy win

Yes, the current government frustrates me.  The 2-party system and it's inability to change things.

In my opinion, the current government is more than the poor slob standing behind the podium bearing the presidential seal.

your guy???  I don't have a "guy"

all the guys line up on one side of the aisle or the other and vote party lines, however foolish and get nothing done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 24, 2023, 01:27:56 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 12:10:00 PM

this is from your view point
from my view my party wants to good for America and the other party doesnt
thats basically why and how parties are formed

How can you honesty believe this????????????

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 24, 2023, 01:42:21 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 24, 2023, 08:18:29 AM

It's hard to sleep in a hotel sometimes. It's all about the bed. We have good luck with Hilton places.

We have an amazing bed in our RV and I get awesome sleep when we take it.  Way better than pretty much any hotel bed I've ever used.  The RV mattress is honestly better than our much more expensive mattress in the house, I should just replace that one with the same model we have in the RV.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 02:16:32 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 01:19:31 PM

then why doesn't your party do good?
When was the last time your party had a majority of power in Washington to get things done?
What did your party do at that time to change this country for the better?

If your party's excuse for not getting things done is "the other" party, then there may be a problem with the 2-party system. Or perhaps your party really doesn't care enough to do good, they simply play the blame game with the other party while staying in power.

my view will only be satisfied when any party comes along and does something to improve this country. having beliefs is great.  But, if there's no action it's useless.

similar to climate change beliefs

largest tax cut in 50 years how bout that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 02:18:45 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 24, 2023, 01:27:56 PM

How can you honesty believe this????????????

and along come OAM to change a good discussion into mud slinging

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 24, 2023, 02:21:57 PM

I think the current divide is illustrated by the Walker and Fetterman Senate campaigns in Georgia and Pennsylvania. 

Substantially all of the Republican voters in Georgia AND substantially all of the Democratic voters in Pennsylvania voted for a candidate from their party who was flat out retarded. 

The thing is, I'm not even sure that I blame them. The divide is so stark that for most voters a retard who will vote most of the time with your "team" is rationally preferable to a cognitively functional person who will vote against your "team" most of the time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 02:26:59 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on March 24, 2023, 02:21:57 PM

I think the current divide is illustrated by the Walker and Fetterman Senate campaigns in Georgia and Pennsylvania.

Substantially all of the Republican voters in Georgia AND substantially all of the Democratic voters in Pennsylvania voted for a candidate from their party who was flat out retarded.

The thing is, I'm not even sure that I blame them. The divide is so stark that for most voters a retard who will vote most of the time with your "team" is rationally preferable to a cognitively functional person who will vote against your "team" most of the time.

a lot of voters simply did not feel Walker was not up for the job

just because you didnt is just your opinion

and hey the system worked didnt it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 24, 2023, 03:10:20 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 02:26:59 PM

a lot of voters simply did not feel Walker was not up for the job

just because you didnt is just your opinion

and hey the system worked didnt it

But what about Fetterman? He actually won.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 24, 2023, 03:12:03 PM

When you easily sling around the R word, or any derivations thereof, you have lost all your credibility.

I have yet to hear any good arguments how term limits would make the legislative branch less reliant on Big Lobby. If anything, term limits do the opposite. Mandatory retirement at 70-ish would be far more effective.

The most meaningful way to increase representative democracy at the federal level is a substantial increase in the size of the House of Representatives.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 24, 2023, 03:35:11 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 24, 2023, 03:12:03 PM

When you easily sling around the R word, or any derivations thereof, you have lost all your credibility.

Whether you call them retarded or cognitively challenged the meaning is the same.

Quote from: GopherRock on March 24, 2023, 03:12:03 PM

I have yet to hear any good arguments how term limits would make the legislative branch less reliant on Big Lobby. If anything, term limits do the opposite. Mandatory retirement at 70-ish would be far more effective.

That term limits are extremely popular with American voters is an indication of just how far gone our system is. Voters who favor term limits are effectively saying "I'm too stupid (retarded) to not vote for the same guy again so don't let me.

Your second point is even more important. Anyone who says they favor term limits, whether they like it or not, is saying that they want the lobbyists, beurecrats, and political parties to have MORE power.

Ohio enacted term limits and a lot of Republicans that I knew supported them because they desperately wanted to get rid of longtime Democratic State House Speaker* Vern Riffe.

Now Ohio's elected representatives have substantially less power and the buerecrats, lobbyists, and parties run the show.

Quote from: GopherRock on March 24, 2023, 03:12:03 PM

The most meaningful way to increase representative democracy at the federal level is a substantial increase in the size of the House of Representatives.

One of my best friends has been pushing this argument since we were in High School. His argument is that elected officials who serve a district as large as a Congressional District (average population of 761K) cannot be defeated by a grassroots campaign so they inherently respond to lobbyists/money because that is what wins their elections.

He thinks the House should have 10x the current number of Representatives to get districts down to around 76K where he thinks they would be more responsive to voters.

*In those days it was typical for State House Speakers to be VERY powerful and hold their offices for decades. Another example is Willie Brown who was Speaker of the California House for most of two decades. Our current Vice President got her political start as Willie Brown's side chick.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 03:40:35 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on March 24, 2023, 12:13:28 PM

Much as we don't want to admit it, most of the problems with Congress are simply reflections of problems of us.

Maybe the problem isn't simply that Congress is hopelessly divided but rather that WE are hopelessly divided.

I believe that we are hopelessly divided because of the actions and rhetoric of the leaders in both parties

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 24, 2023, 03:45:42 PM

Yeah I'm sure a HOR with over 4,000 members would be really efficient and effective.  Good Lord.  The unintended consequences of a change like that would be breathtaking.  On second thought, let's go ahead and do it.  C-Span ratings would skyrocket.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 03:49:08 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on March 24, 2023, 03:10:20 PM

But what about Fetterman? He actually won.

Walker wasn't up to the job, neither is Fetterman
there's the problem, the two parties don't even have the want to or leadership to promote capable people for positions in their own party.

neither party is really trying to do good
same issue we have for presidential candidates

Trump and Biden where their answers?
It's laughable

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 03:50:07 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 24, 2023, 03:45:42 PM

Yeah I'm sure a HOR with over 4,000 members would be really efficient and effective.  Good Lord.  The unintended consequences of a change like that would be breathtaking.  On second thought, let's go ahead and do it.  C-Span ratings would skyrocket.

more folks caught sleeping? or picking their noses

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 24, 2023, 03:50:26 PM

I don't know if 4,000 is the right number, but 435 is way too low.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn02384/

The UK has 1/5 the population of the US, yet there have been between 650 and 700 seats in the Commons over the last 200 years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 24, 2023, 03:56:33 PM

You've watched video of the Commons, right?

Like I said, C-Span ratings would skyrocket.  We should definitely make this happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on March 24, 2023, 03:56:54 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 12:07:45 PM

power is bad obviously when it leads to corruption

many folks can't handle the power and are corrupted by it

Lord Acton

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 24, 2023, 04:04:46 PM

Also seems like we have the AI to draw non-gerrymandered districts at this point.  The number of seats that are actually up for grabs is increasingly limited as both parties, when in power, seek to consolidate it by redrawing districts

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 24, 2023, 04:08:41 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 24, 2023, 03:50:26 PM

I don't know if 4,000 is the right number, but 435 is way too low.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn02384/

The UK has 1/5 the population of the US, yet there have been between 650 and 700 seats in the Commons over the last 200 years.

The parliamentary system, where everything just comes down to votes, and subsects have a voice, this makes more sense.  Just adding more seats to a two party system, I think only makes things worse.  You wind up with similar divisions, but with compromise nearly impossible.

Now if you want to discuss a parliamentary voting system...I'm all ears.  Might make more sense than a two party system where one party is all about big government, except when they don't, and the other is all about small government, until they need some votes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 04:13:19 PM

adding or subtracting from the numbers or limiting terms from those numbers does nothing as long as all of them are going to vote straight party line

maybe a 3rd party could be the force that swags things one way or another to get things done?

neither of the 2 parties wants THAT! for shit's sake!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 04:15:30 PM

Afroman sued by law enforcement officers who raided his home

Afroman has promised to countersue ‘for the undeniable damage this had on my clients, family, career and property.’

https://www.fox19.com/2023/03/22/afroman-sued-by-law-enforcment-officers-who-raided-his-home/ (https://www.fox19.com/2023/03/22/afroman-sued-by-law-enforcment-officers-who-raided-his-home/)

ADAMS COUNTY, Ohio (WXIX) - Seven members of the Adams County Sheriff’s Office who raided Joseph Foreman’s home last year are now suing him claiming, among other things, that he invaded their privacy.

Four deputies, two sergeants and a detective are claiming Foreman (a.k.a. “Afroman”) took footage of their faces obtained during the raid and used it in music videos and social media posts without their consent, a misdemeanor violation under Ohio Revised Code.

They’re also suing on civil grounds, saying Foreman’s use of their faces (i.e. personas) in the videos and social media posts resulted in their “emotional distress, embarrassment, ridicule, loss of reputation and humiliation.”

The plaintiffs say they’re entitled to all of Foreman’s profits from his use of their personas. That includes, according to the complaint, proceeds from the songs, music videos and live event tickets as well as the promotion of Foreman’s “Afroman” brand, under which he sells beer, marijuana, t-shirts and other merchandise.


Sheriff’s deputies acted on a warrant claiming probable cause existed that drugs and drug paraphernalia would be found on Foreman’s property and that trafficking and kidnapping had taken place there.

“They come up here with AR-15, traumatize my kids, destroyed my property, kick in my door, rip up and destroy my camera system,” he said in August.

The suspicions turned out to be unfounded. The Adams County Prosecutor’s Office said the raid failed to turn up probative criminal evidence, according to attorney Anna Castellini. No charges were ever filed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 24, 2023, 04:24:21 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 04:13:19 PM

adding or subtracting from the numbers or limiting terms from those numbers does nothing as long as all of them are going to vote straight party line

maybe a 3rd party could be the force that swags things one way or another to get things done?

neither of the 2 parties wants THAT! for shit's sake!!!

And that's the problem.  I hate voting straight party, but the platforms have become so nationalized, that why wouldn't you?  Every candidate within a party is exactly the same.  Hell, the parties want to know where a candidate satands on abortion before allowing them to run on the county comptroller ticket

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 04:27:09 PM

yup, and now you may have to cross a state line to have an abortion

gee whiz, Wally

what a big deal

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 24, 2023, 04:47:28 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 04:27:09 PM

yup, and now you may have to cross a state line to have an abortion

gee whiz, Wally

what a big deal

Depends on the state and how close is the nearest border.  In some states that's a bigger deal than others...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 04:55:23 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 24, 2023, 01:27:56 PM

How can you honesty believe this????????????

Do you think your party wants to good for America and the other party doesnt?  

It's fine to feel that way if you do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 24, 2023, 05:31:07 PM

Quote from: ELA on March 24, 2023, 04:24:21 PM

And that's the problem.  I hate voting straight party, but the platforms have become so nationalized, that why wouldn't you?  Every candidate within a party is exactly the same.  Hell, the parties want to know where a candidate satands on abortion before allowing them to run on the county comptroller ticket

A lot of people claim to vote for person, not for party. I actually believe a VERY small minority of those who make that claim. 

But in our system, it's absolutely RATIONAL to vote for party, not person. Because while you may theoretically have a direct representative who is in Washington to represent *YOUR* district, the truth is that once they are elected, they are beholden to the party and will vote in lock step [mostly, a few rare exceptions] with the party. 

I.e. it's absolutely rational to vote for an absolutely despicable human being with your party's letter behind their name, than an honorable upstanding person with integrity with the other party's letter behind their name. Because the former is more likely to lead to policies you like than the latter. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 06:31:27 PM

I have a rule to help me chose which local candidate to vote for

this for local folks like judges etc

I generally vote rep unless the candidate has a nick name as part of their name

like Harold "Butch" Willis for example

I never vote for anyone with a nick name on the ballot

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 07:00:51 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 24, 2023, 05:31:07 PM

A lot of people claim to vote for person, not for party. I actually believe a VERY small minority of those who make that claim.

But in our system, it's absolutely RATIONAL to vote for party, not person. Because while you may theoretically have a direct representative who is in Washington to represent *YOUR* district, the truth is that once they are elected, they are beholden to the party and will vote in lock step [mostly, a few rare exceptions] with the party.

I.e. it's absolutely rational to vote for an absolutely despicable human being with your party's letter behind their name, than an honorable upstanding person with integrity with the other party's letter behind their name. Because the former is more likely to lead to policies you like than the latter.

yes, but it wasn't like this a decade or two ago (well maybe 30 years ago, I'm old)
you could vote for a person and that person would vote their mind on issues and vote for what they actually believed in. Instead of merely voting along the party line as they are instructed by the party leaders.

this has trickled down to the individual voter that has to pick one of the two parties.
this conflicts individuals

some people are pro choice and pro gun
some people are anti marijuana and anti public health insurance

but they have no one to vote for

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 08:18:35 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 24, 2023, 07:46:28 AM

Fook Off

Lee Ho Fooks

Chinese Restaurant

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 24, 2023, 08:38:03 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 24, 2023, 05:31:07 PM

A lot of people claim to vote for person, not for party. I actually believe a VERY small minority of those who make that claim.

But in our system, it's absolutely RATIONAL to vote for party, not person. Because while you may theoretically have a direct representative who is in Washington to represent *YOUR* district, the truth is that once they are elected, they are beholden to the party and will vote in lock step [mostly, a few rare exceptions] with the party.

I.e. it's absolutely rational to vote for an absolutely despicable human being with your party's letter behind their name, than an honorable upstanding person with integrity with the other party's letter behind their name. Because the former is more likely to lead to policies you like than the latter.

As I said, they are beholden to the party, on no matter how stupid a reason, before the election.  Hell, you better toe the party line on a border wall before you run for county treasurer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 08:50:12 PM

NCAA president Charlie Baker told CBS broadcasters Greg Gumbel and Clark Kellogg that he'd like to discuss NIL with lawmakers in the nation's capital. That idea doesn't sit well with Barkley.

Barkley ultimately believes our politicians today are "awful people."

"Did he say we’re gonna ask the politicians to help us? See, that pisses me off already," Barkley said. "Our politicians are awful people. As I talked to Clark earlier because I asked him about y’all’s conversation, I would actually to people who actually care about basketball.

"I would put a committee together. I would love for Clark to be on the committee. Get some coaches, get some players and let’s try to work this thing out. We can’t ask these politicians nothing. Those people are awful people. Democrats and Republicans – they’re all crooks."

The sports world couldn't wait to chime in on this conversation. For the most part, fans agree with Barkley's stance on politicians.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 24, 2023, 09:04:46 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 04:55:23 PM

Do you think your party wants to good for America and the other party doesnt? 

It's fine to feel that way if you do.

I don't have a party.  
I see that members of both parties at least think what they want is good for America....and both are often wrong, depending on the issue.
.
I swear to god, my posts about what I actually believe in (politically) are just plainly ignored.  I'm no the radical lefty many of you need me to be.  Sorry/not sorry.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 24, 2023, 09:08:50 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 24, 2023, 06:31:27 PM

I have a rule to help me chose which local candidate to vote for

this for local folks like judges etc

I generally vote rep unless the candidate has a nick name as part of their name

like Harold "Butch" Willis for example

I never vote for anyone with a nick name on the ballot

Another brilliant contribution.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 24, 2023, 09:32:28 PM

How else do you expect to be treated when you share something like that?  
"I never vote for anyone with ______" is idiotic, no matter what fills in the blank...especially when it's something utterly irrelevant to how effective a legislator they would be.
.
I mean honestly.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 24, 2023, 11:08:06 PM

Am I out of line here?  Does anyone disagree with me?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 24, 2023, 11:31:59 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 04:15:30 PM

Afroman sued by law enforcement officers who raided his home

Afroman has promised to countersue ‘for the undeniable damage this had on my clients, family, career and property.’

https://www.fox19.com/2023/03/22/afroman-sued-by-law-enforcment-officers-who-raided-his-home/ (https://www.fox19.com/2023/03/22/afroman-sued-by-law-enforcment-officers-who-raided-his-home/)

ADAMS COUNTY, Ohio (WXIX) - Seven members of the Adams County Sheriff’s Office who raided Joseph Foreman’s home last year are now suing him claiming, among other things, that he invaded their privacy.

Four deputies, two sergeants and a detective are claiming Foreman (a.k.a. “Afroman”) took footage of their faces obtained during the raid and used it in music videos and social media posts without their consent, a misdemeanor violation under Ohio Revised Code.

They’re also suing on civil grounds, saying Foreman’s use of their faces (i.e. personas) in the videos and social media posts resulted in their “emotional distress, embarrassment, ridicule, loss of reputation and humiliation.”

The plaintiffs say they’re entitled to all of Foreman’s profits from his use of their personas. That includes, according to the complaint, proceeds from the songs, music videos and live event tickets as well as the promotion of Foreman’s “Afroman” brand, under which he sells beer, marijuana, t-shirts and other merchandise.


Sheriff’s deputies acted on a warrant claiming probable cause existed that drugs and drug paraphernalia would be found on Foreman’s property and that trafficking and kidnapping had taken place there.

“They come up here with AR-15, traumatize my kids, destroyed my property, kick in my door, rip up and destroy my camera system,” he said in August.

The suspicions turned out to be unfounded. The Adams County Prosecutor’s Office said the raid failed to turn up probative criminal evidence, according to attorney Anna Castellini. No charges were ever filed.

I am kind of fascinated by this lawsuit. It has some interesting free speech elements.

My gut is that the initial lawsuit will be massively unsuccessful. I am less sure about the countersuit, so I am guessing it would be also unsuccessful.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 25, 2023, 12:26:26 AM

I do expect 15% if it's successful, as I'm under the Afroman umbrella, of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 25, 2023, 07:58:41 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 25, 2023, 12:26:26 AM

I do expect 15% if it's successful, as I'm under the Afroman umbrella, of course.

Next he's gonna sue you, for making his stage name so unmanly. 





(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/64/1f/a2/641fa28441b2aa19d241ade958d7cc7f.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 25, 2023, 08:03:19 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 24, 2023, 01:42:21 PM

We have an amazing bed in our RV and I get awesome sleep when we take it.  Way better than pretty much any hotel bed I've ever used.  The RV mattress is honestly better than our much more expensive mattress in the house, I should just replace that one with the same model we have in the RV.

We had the same situation in our boat. King Tempur-Pedic. Best mattress ever. I'd have kept it, but I had to cut it in spots to fit in the berth. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2023, 08:10:16 AM

We also have a Tempurpedic which I think is great as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 25, 2023, 08:12:59 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 25, 2023, 08:03:19 AM

We had the same situation in our boat. King Tempur-Pedic. Best mattress ever. I'd have kept it, but I had to cut it in spots to fit in the berth.

Yeah the foam mattresses are awesome for being able to cut/customize.  I bought a queen-sized Casper and cut it into 2 narrow twins for the kids' beds in the RV. 

This is the brand of our queen-size in the RV master bedroom, it's so comfortable and ridiculously inexpensive:


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0097X6730/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 25, 2023, 08:17:52 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 24, 2023, 09:02:21 PM

If you're poor and live along the gulf coast, you have to travel 1,000 miles to get an abortion.  You don't have the money for gas and you can't afford to take the time off.

Where on the Gulf Coast would you drive to for an abortion?


(https://i.imgur.com/5zmP8fY.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 25, 2023, 08:25:20 AM

so, up until a few months ago, the entire map was green?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 25, 2023, 08:27:41 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 25, 2023, 08:10:16 AM

We also have a Tempurpedic which I think is great as well.

I learn so many things here.
My mattress is nearly 30 years old.
It seems to be sufficient.  But I sleep well on crap hotel beds.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 25, 2023, 08:53:19 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 25, 2023, 08:25:20 AM

so, up until a few months ago, the entire map was green?

No, it was not.

Up until a few months ago, there was no black on the map.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2023, 08:57:43 AM

To note, posts with vitriolic name calling will be deleted.

None of us are 5 years old, we don't need to act as if we are.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 25, 2023, 09:03:12 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 25, 2023, 08:57:43 AM

To note, posts with vitriolic name calling will be deleted.

None of us are 5 years old, we don't need to act as if we are.

what about posts that suggest what you can do to yourself

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 25, 2023, 09:07:28 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 25, 2023, 08:57:43 AM

To note, posts with vitriolic name calling will be deleted.

normal name calling is fine

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 25, 2023, 09:09:38 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 25, 2023, 09:07:28 AM

normal name calling is fine

😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 25, 2023, 09:24:34 AM

I try not to be vitriolic

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2023, 09:29:58 AM

Oil of vitriol was an old name for concentrated sulfuric acid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfuric_acid), which was historically obtained through the dry distillation (pyrolysis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrolysis)) of vitriols. The name, shortened to vitriol, continued to be used for this viscous liquid long after the minerals came to be called "sulfates". The term vitriolic in the sense of "harshly condemnatory" is derived from the corrosive nature of this substance.

A modern term for a nasty acid is "fuming sulfuric".  Sulfuric is bad enough if you get it on you, the fuming kind is hyperbad.  Strangely, one of the most dangerous acids is HF, hydrofluoric, even though it is considered a "weak acid".  There also is "fuming nitric", also quite bad.

Perhaps the most dangerous chemical I ever heard of is fluoromethyl sulfate, not an acid, but a very potent alkylating agent.  A couple drops exposure will likely kill you, or give you cancer if it doesn't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 25, 2023, 06:05:12 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 25, 2023, 08:03:19 AM

 I'd have kept it, but I had to cut it in spots to fit in the berth.

That kind of sounds medical....and nasty.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 25, 2023, 06:09:21 PM

I take a 4" mattress topper camping.  It fits perfectly - queen size in a square, 4-person tent.  It's my luxury item.
I'm very plain in other aspects of camping - cooking over the fire, no phone, etc.....just nature, a book, and a baseball mitt for entertainment.
.
But I sleep GOOD on that 4" topper.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 25, 2023, 08:06:28 PM

When I'm tent-camping I have a twin sized air mattress that I use.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2023, 10:38:04 AM

Wife Doesn’t Like Tone Of Husband’s 'Ok' Text Reply | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/wife-doesnt-like-tone-of-husbands-ok-text-reply)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 26, 2023, 11:06:49 AM

Ha!

And "tone" on internet message boards is similarly tricky...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 26, 2023, 11:11:19 AM

I'm not sure why folks want to conjure up tone in other's posts, but it happens ALL the time

there is an obvious emphasis or loudness when typing in all caps

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2023, 11:11:47 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 26, 2023, 11:06:49 AM

Ha!

And "tone" on internet message boards is similarly tricky...

Ok

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 26, 2023, 11:13:59 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2023, 11:11:47 AM

Ok

>:(

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 26, 2023, 11:16:34 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 26, 2023, 11:11:19 AM

I'm not sure why folks want to conjure up tone in other's posts, but it happens ALL the time

there is an obvious emphasis or loudness when typing in all caps

The whole reason emoticons first evolved in email/chat text conversations, was to help convey tone.  I still use "smilies" a lot.  But some folks don't like using them or think they're goofy.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2023, 11:26:44 AM

:41:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 26, 2023, 11:27:10 AM

Quote from: ELA on March 24, 2023, 04:04:46 PM

Also seems like we have the AI to draw non-gerrymandered districts at this point.  The number of seats that are actually up for grabs is increasingly limited as both parties, when in power, seek to consolidate it by redrawing districts

AI can also gerrymander districts in such a way that a 60-40 statewide win for one side yields a Legislative supermajority for the side with 40.

AI (or any other computer software) is only as good as the person defining the inputs and constraints. Garbage in, garbage out. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 26, 2023, 11:27:34 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 26, 2023, 11:16:34 AM

The whole reason emoticons first evolved in email/chat text conversations, was to help convey tone.  I still use "smilies" a lot.  But some folks don't like using them or think they're goofy. 

:djparty:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2023, 11:45:05 AM

Anyone here use something like this?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-strongest-protection-for-your-online-accounts-this-little-key-d0b38b27?st=47jocqmkeiir4j4&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 26, 2023, 12:14:38 PM

nope

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 26, 2023, 02:54:28 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2023, 10:38:04 AM

Wife Doesn’t Like Tone Of Husband’s 'Ok' Text Reply | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/wife-doesnt-like-tone-of-husbands-ok-text-reply)

I read an article stating that Gen Z was getting upset by older colleagues using the thumbs up emoji. 


https://nypost.com/2022/10/26/gen-z-has-hidden-meanings-for-emojis-beyond-rude-thumbs-up/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2023, 02:58:01 PM

Oh? Maybe they can deal with this in their safe space?

(https://i.imgur.com/TFKJGBF.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2023, 02:59:53 PM

My wife wanted to go to Whole Foods, fine, we usually walk, but the weather is a bit inclement, so we drove, and parked (which is free with validation).  We have lunch at Farm Burger, which is pretty good, pick up a few items, and go to leave.  There is a line of four cars in front waiting to get out.  The lead car is trying to poke the ticket into the machine, but it is refusing it.  She pokes, pokes, pokes, gets out of car and pokes.

Now get this, the gate is open.  OPEN!  I beep my horn from way back in the line.  Finally she realizes the gate is up, I heard someone in the car behind say something like "The gate is up", so she departs.  Then the NEXT car tries to poke ticket into machine.  THE GATE IS UP!!!!!!!!!!

And then the third car does the same thing.  I just drive out when finally they all depart.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2023, 03:14:03 PM

Georgia football facilities top elite recruits’ rankings, 4 of top 6 from SEC (dawgnation.com) (https://www.dawgnation.com/football/sunday-reader/facilities-rank-georgia-football-kirby-smart/35ADR545NBEYVLCE5D7G4JSOAE/?fbclid=IwAR0Mft3wxKxm1fHKQGOqlrP9iv63UHckzTXzUmrQ0dDNUYtB9q7ijV1mHbU)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 26, 2023, 03:33:09 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 26, 2023, 02:59:53 PM

My wife wanted to go to Whole Foods, fine, we usually walk, but the weather is a bit inclement, so we drove, and parked (which is free with validation).  We have lunch at Farm Burger, which is pretty good, pick up a few items, and go to leave.  There is a line of four cars in front waiting to get out.  The lead car is trying to poke the ticket into the machine, but it is refusing it.  She pokes, pokes, pokes, gets out of car and pokes.

Now get this, the gate is open.  OPEN!  I beep my horn from way back in the line.  Finally she realizes the gate is up, I heard someone in the car behind say something like "The gate is up", so she departs.  Then the NEXT car tries to poke ticket into machine.  THE GATE IS UP!!!!!!!!!!

And then the third car does the same thing.  I just drive out when finally they all depart.

This sounds like when everyone pulls up to the gas pumps on the wrong side of their car at Costco.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2023, 03:59:04 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/L928D9z.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 26, 2023, 04:18:47 PM

well, one of them is a sea, so........

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 26, 2023, 06:47:06 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 26, 2023, 11:27:10 AM

AI can also gerrymander districts in such a way that a 60-40 statewide win for one side yields a Legislative supermajority for the side with 40.

AI (or any other computer software) is only as good as the person defining the inputs and constraints. Garbage in, garbage out.

That would just be simple coding, no?  The point of A.I. is that it can "learn" to make districts fair/representative.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 26, 2023, 07:24:49 PM

define fair/representative

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 26, 2023, 07:49:43 PM

Districts that don't give either party an advantage/is representative of the population

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2023, 07:51:33 AM

Touring Georgia’s $80 Million Football Facilities! (2x National Champs) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I4bqgfkuVE)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 27, 2023, 08:26:36 AM

UNL working on their new facilities
I'm sure the recruits got a tour of the unfinished last weekend

https://youtu.be/Fe3PPtFrM4o

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 28, 2023, 08:56:03 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/q9gQUUs.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2023, 12:28:33 PM

Metro Atlanta city named one of the 'Best Places to Live' in United States: report (fox5atlanta.com) (https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/sandy-springs-georgia-best-place-to-live-survey?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR25UIgyTzr3UlVL8kPjyXntAGr3Kx0-JQiLlPEWlXaaYTQq9R-GdB77uPk)

Another list of stuff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 28, 2023, 02:46:23 PM

atlanta-ranked-as-one-of-most-unfaithful-cities-in-us-per-dating-site

https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/atlanta-ranked-as-one-of-most-unfaithful-cities-in-us-per-dating-site

Another list of stuff

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2023, 02:51:08 PM

I can sorta understand that considering some of the young ladies I see out and about.  When did yoga pants become a thing?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2023, 07:26:37 AM

Billboards in Madison.

(https://i.imgur.com/ljCG9mG.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 29, 2023, 10:23:04 AM

When I was working in Minneapolis many years ago, I went to see a Minnesota-Wisconsin hockey game, the men's teams.  It was a tremendous amount of fun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2023, 11:12:16 AM

American IQs rose 30 points in the last century. Now, they may be falling. | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/technology/3922608-american-iqs-rose-30-points-in-the-last-century-now-they-may-be-falling/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 29, 2023, 11:26:03 AM

are we sure it's not simply a difference in testing and measurement?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2023, 11:40:16 AM

I'm not sure, I don't know how this could be measured really, I just thought it interesting.

I suppose they tried to standardize the tests somehow.

Being able to read reasonably well enhances one's "IQ" by a lot relative to a smart person who reads slowly or is dyslexic etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 29, 2023, 11:43:16 AM

I read slowly because I'm dyslexic

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2023, 12:07:12 PM

Flynn’s research found that IQ scores rose by 3 to 5 points per decade, a finding that implied humans were getting gradually smarter. Cognitive researchers spent decades debating the reasons for the Great Smartening.   
“Some people thought it was nutrition, some thought it was schooling, some thought it was better parenting,” Sternberg said. Over the course of the 20th century, Americans generally ate better, stayed in school longer and refined brutalist parenting techniques.  
Flynn himself believed rising IQs reflected the growing complexity of human affairs. As farms gave way to factories, horses to cars, typewriters to computers, “it became more complicated to live in the world,” Sternberg said. “And so, IQs went up.” 

I think another factor could be lead exposure, and exposure to other brain poisons back in the day from patent medicine and the like.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 29, 2023, 12:19:48 PM

I think its tied to advancing technology internet, computers, smart phones

information is much faster 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 29, 2023, 12:39:40 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 26, 2023, 07:49:43 PM

Districts that don't give either party an advantage/is representative of the population

It still isn't that simple and there are nonpartisan political factors as well.

I'll use Ohio as my example because I obviously know it better than others.

For more than a century up until very recently, Ohio was THE purple state. Specifically, Ohio voted for the winner in every Presidential election from 1964-2020. Kennedy did win without Ohio in 1960 but note:

• That was an EXTREMELY close election nationally with Kennedy beating Nixon 49.72% to 49.55%
• It was also fairly close in Ohio with Nixon winning 53.28% to 46.72%

Ohio also voted for the winner in the 1956, 1952, and 1948 elections.

Ohio did not vote for Roosevelt in 1944 but note that:

• That was the only of Roosevelt's four elections in which he did not carry Ohio, and
• 1944 was, BY FAR, Roosevelt's closest election.

In addition to voting for Roosevelt in his first three (successful) campaigns, Ohio also voted for the winner in the Presidential elections in 1928, 1924, 1920, 1916, 1912, 1908, 1904, 1900, and 1896.

The point being that from 1896-2020 Ohio was about as close to the center of US politics as a state could be.

During that time, Ohio had between 16 and 24 Congressional Districts.

So, what would be "fair"?
I assume that most would say as close as possible to a 50/50 split.

Even taking that as a given there are many ways to get there. Here are two extremes:

• Say Ohio has 18 Districts (2003-2013): Draw 18 highly competitive Districts.
• Say Ohio has 18 Districts: Draw nine strongly Republican and nine strongly Democratic Districts.

Now you might say that #1 is the obvious answer because we want highly competitive Districts. Ok, but that would be catastrophically bad for Ohio. None of Ohio's Representatives would ever have much seniority (in the HoR, seniority = power). Every time there was even a minor Blue wave it would wipe out Ohio's Republican Representatives and conversely every minor red wave would wipe out Ohio's Democratic Representatives.

Thus, for reasons that are neither partisan nor ideological it would absolutely make sense for Ohio's Republican and Democratic leaders to instead agree to option #2 with nine each strongly Republican and strongly Democratic Districts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 29, 2023, 12:52:28 PM

Gerrymandering, next step:
In Ohio as throughout the US generally, Democratic leaning voters are much more strongly clustered. 

For example, in the 2020 Presidential election Biden got nearly half the vote (45.24%) despite carrying only seven of Ohio's 88 counties:

• Cuyahoga County - Cleveland 
• Franklin County - Columbus 
• Hamilton County - Cincinnati 
• Lucas County - Toledo
• Montgomery County - Dayton 
• Summit County - Akron
• Athens County - Ohio University 

The first six listed cover Ohio's six most populous cities and are Ohio's six most populous counties. The exception is Athens County which is very sparsely populated and contains Ohio University. The campus leftists outnumber the conservative permanent residents if they show up to vote. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2023, 12:59:38 PM

One reason given for gerrymandering is to ensure some black representation in Congress.  Of course, this also concentrates the black population in one or two districts leaving the others much more white.  Illinois #4 is a nice example of Democratic Party controlled gerrymandering.

I'd have it done by commission with some "rules" laying out some geographic limits in terms of simple geometry.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 29, 2023, 01:52:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 29, 2023, 12:07:12 PM

I think another factor could be lead exposure, and exposure to other brain poisons back in the day from patent medicine and the like.

There's a growing body of research that the declining crime rates that started right around the early 90s were directly related to getting rid of leaded gasoline. That was right around the time that the kids who started seeing ever-lessening lead contamination in the soil of their neighborhoods started reaching late teen / early 20s age (key demographic for criminality).

That said, I would generally ascribe to the idea that the century-long increase in IQ was partially due to improved nutrition and ability to feed the population, and partially due to increased emphasis on education that helped prepare students for taking tests like IQ tests. 

A somewhat similar thing occurred with height. 

Why Have Americans Stopped Growing Taller? (https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=98438)

The crux is that we've largely stopped growing taller because we've stopped the things (malnutrition / calorie deficit) that caused us to be shorter than we should have been. Now that we've done that, we mostly grow as tall as we're supposed to get, but added calories and nutrition beyond that don't actually cause us to become even taller than we're supposed to be. 

I'm 6'5", but if I had been born in 1878 rather than 1978, it's likely that I would never have reached this height because I wouldn't have gotten the nutrition in my early development to allow me to achieve my height potential. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2023, 01:56:02 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 29, 2023, 12:59:38 PM

One reason given for gerrymandering is to ensure some black representation in Congress.  Of course, this also concentrates the black population in one or two districts leaving the others much more white.  Illinois #4 is a nice example of Democratic Party controlled gerrymandering.

I'd have it done by commission with some "rules" laying out some geographic limits in terms of simple geometry.

Heh.

(https://i.imgur.com/D3YWhgp.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 29, 2023, 02:21:17 PM

obviously some thought went into this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 29, 2023, 03:10:34 PM

Russian Colonel Dmitry Lisitsky, who was responsible for war crimes in Ukraine, was found dead with a gunshot wound in his home city.

The cause of his death is disputed, with conflicting reports from the Ukrainian and Russian sides – one side claims it was an elimination while the other is calling it suicide, respectively.

Yuri Butusov, who was the first to report the news to the Western world, claimed that Lisitsky was “liquidated” as retribution for the 2014 ‘Ilovaisk cauldron’ massacre in the Donetsk region, where more than 350 Ukrainian servicemen were killed after pro-Russian troops mowed down retreating Ukrainians during a ceasefire. The man responsible for the carnage was Lisitsky.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 29, 2023, 03:17:01 PM

It's a hard question. 

• Do you want districts that split as close to 50/50 R/D? 
• Or do you want districts that are split along demographic lines where most of the inhabitants will have similar concerns/desires?

If you ask for the former, you may have a much higher likelihood of ousting a sitting Congressperson who is unresponsive to their district's needs. But at the same time, if your district is split 50/50 by party, whichever Congressperson is "representing" that district doesn't have a consistent viewpoint to represent. 

If the latter, you end up where we are, which is a 90%+ reelection rate in Congress and "safe" districts which largely skew to one party or the other. But the upside there is that if a Congressperson knows that the vast majority of people in their district is of like mind, they can feel more comfortable that they're actually representing those peoples' viewpoint. 

----------

My own personal opinion is that the direct representation model that we have is largely broken. We as Americans like to think that we can go down to "MY REPRESENTATIVE'S OFFICE" and have a conversation and get results. Because he's "my guy, and if he won't listen, I'll vote his A$$ out!"

But it doesn't work that way. Especially with 435 members of the House and 100 in the Senate. A House member on average represents somewhere around 750K people. Only 10 Senators (5 states) represent less than 1M voters. 20 Senators (10 states) represent more than 10M each. You think they care about an individual voter or their pet issues? They don't have time. Granted, they're skilled politicians, so they'll ignore you while you walk away feeling really good about how the encounter went and how much they care. But then they'll vote based on their real interest, which is party power. 

As I've said many times, a direct representation model with first past the post voting is only stable as a two-party configuration. And to have ANY committee assignments and/or power in D.C., a representative is beholden to their party FAR more than to his direct constituents. Especially with gerrymandering, because their goal is to avoid getting primary'd, not to worry that the opposite party representative is going to beat them at the polls. 

Unless you change the direct representation model with first past the post voting, you're not going to change any of this. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 29, 2023, 03:46:44 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2023, 01:56:02 PM

Heh.

(https://i.imgur.com/D3YWhgp.png)

That whole project was an incredible bit of shooting one’s self in the foot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2023, 03:53:55 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 29, 2023, 03:46:44 PM

That whole project was an incredible bit of shooting one’s self in the foot.

Shooting. Heh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 29, 2023, 04:45:35 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 29, 2023, 03:17:01 PM

It's a hard question.

• Do you want districts that split as close to 50/50 R/D?
• Or do you want districts that are split along demographic lines where most of the inhabitants will have similar concerns/desires?

Option two also inherently benefits Republicans at least as things are today.  Allow me to explain:

I mentioned upthread that in the 2020 election Biden got almost 50% in Ohio despite carrying only seven of Ohio's 88 counties.  

A key reality that most people do not realize can be neatly summarized as this:

• Republicans generally win small majorities of large groups.  
• Democrats generally win large majorities of small groups.  

This is only a rule of thumb so it isn't exact but you would be surprised how often it is true, by education:

• The majority of Americans have at least a HS diploma but less than a PHD.  These people vote Republican but it is fairly close.  
• Small minorities of Americans either do NOT have a HS diploma or have a PHD or beyond.  These people vote Democratic and it is not close at all.  

Race:

• A majority of Americans are white and whites vote Republican but generally by less than a 2:1 margin
• Minorities of Americans are hispanic, black, asian, and other.  These groups vote Democratic by 2:1 or greater margins.  

For this reason, if you create demographically homogenous districts you'll end up with a relatively small number of STRONGLY Democratic districts (no chance at all for a Republican) and a much larger number of "lean" Republican districts.  Democrats will pick up a few of these in any given election for local reasons but overall Republicans will win almost all of them and have a majority of the seats.  

Back to Ohio:
The six most populous counties are:

• 1.3M Franklin (Columbus):  65-33 for Biden in 2020
• 1.3M Cuyahoga (Cleveland):  66-32 for Biden in 2020
• 830k Hamilton (Cincinnati):  57-41 for Biden in 2020
• 540k Summit (Akron):  54-44 for Biden in 2020
• 540k Montgomery (Dayton):  50-48 for Biden in 2020
• 430k Lucas (Toledo):  57-41 for Biden in 2020

Even that doesn't really show the disparity though because Ohio's counties are generally large enough to encompass not just the urban core of the parenthetically named cities but also a large number of suburbs.  In the City of Cleveland proper, Biden won 80-19 and that wasn't even his strongest community within Cuyahoga County.  Biden won Warrensville Heights, East Cleveland, Highland Hills, and Bedford Heights with 96%, 95%, 94%, and 90%.  

Nationally it is exceedingly rare to find an area even as large as a single precinct let alone an entire city where Republicans win more than about two-thirds to three-quarters of the vote.  

The City of Cleveland proper along with the aforementioned four suburbs where Biden won 90%+ have a combined population approximately equal to one Congressional District.  Ohio currently has 15 Congressional Districts.  If you assumed that Ohio was 50/50 split and lumped Cleveland and those four suburbs into one 85-15 Democratic District what you would be left with fourteen districts to draw in an area that was 52.5% R and 47.5% D.  

So Ohio could have one very strongly Democratic District (85-15) and fourteen competitive but Republican leaning Districts (52.5-47.5).  Democrats couldn't do the same thing in reverse because Republican voters are more dispersed so it is nearly impossible to create a Congressional District that is any more than about 2:1 Republican.  

Mathematically, about the best the Democrats could do would be to create two 67-33 Republican Districts and 13 52.5-47.5 Democratic Districts.  

Realistically, neither party generally wants "their" districts to be "only" 52.5-47.5 because that is too close for comfort.  They'll still lose elections in "their" districts from time to time.  So you get a set-up like Ohio now.  Republicans drew the most recent maps and in the 2022 Congressional Elections Republicans carried the popular vote by 56-44 but took two thirds of the seats.  The breakdown from most R to most D was:

• 74-25 R in District2
• 69-30 R in District4
• 69-30 R in District12
• 67-33 R in District5
• 67-32 R in District6
• 64-35 R in District8
• 61-38 R in District10
• 61-38 R in District14
• 57-43 R in District15
• 55-44 R in District7
• 52-47 D in District1 - Democratic Gain
• 52-47 D in District13
• 56-43 D in District9
• 70-30 D in District3
• 77-22 D in District11

There is a lot of noise in individual races.  Although all of them were contested by both parties, most were not seriously contested with the "out" party simply running some sacrificial lamb who had no money, no support from their party, and no chance.  The 2020 Presidential Election results by Congressional District are a better barometer but back then Ohio Still had 16 Districts so they don't line up exactly with the 15 from 2022.  Here are the 2020 US Presidential Election results in each of Ohio's then 16 Districts again sorted R->D:

• 72-27 R in D6
• 67-31 R in D4
• 66-32 R in D8
• 65-33 R in D7
• 62-37 R in D5
• 57-42 R in D16
• 56-43 R in D2
• 56-42 R in D15
• 54-45 R in D14
• 52-46 R in D12
• 51-47 R in D10
• 51-48 R in D1
• 51-48 D in D13
• 59-31 D in D9
• 70-28 D in D3
• 80-19 D in D11

It was only this way because this occurred ten years after the maps were drawn.  D6 got a lot more Republican during that time while D1 and D13 got a lot more Democratic.  

D3 (Columbus) and D11 (Cleveland) were what is called "packed" districts where the Republicans stuffed as many Democrats as possible into just one district.  D9 (Toledo) and D13 (Youngstown) were intended to be but things changed over time.  Mahoning County (Youngstown) hadn't voted Republican in a Presidential Election since Nixon's landslide in 1972 but backed Trump in a losing effort in 2020 which tells you how dramatic the swing has been in Youngstown.  Tim Ryan represented Youngstown in Congress for many years and ran for Senator in 2022.  Part of the reason was that his district trended so far Republican that the Republicans were able to draw him a REALLY tough race had he stayed in the House.  

Packing and Cracking:
A lot of people seem to think that heavily Republican Districts are drawn by Republicans and heavily Democratic Districts are drawn by Democrats but it is actually the opposite.  The goal is to pack your opponent's voters into a small number of overwhelmingly opposition Districts and then give yourself a large number of slightly pro Districts.  Ie, Ohio's 15 Districts currently (drawn by Republicans) are 10 R and 5 D.  Note, however, that Republicans missed slightly.  Two of the five Democratic Districts are only barely Democratic (both 52-47).  They were obviously intended as "lean R" districts but things changed.  


Note also that this isn't done in a vacuum.  The names of the existing Representatives are known to everyone.  If you are a Republican on the committee that draws the maps you are going to be lobbied by your fellow Republicans that hold districts to make their districts more safe.  Conversely, if you are a Republican on the committee that draws the maps and you want to redraw a district to take out a sitting Democratic Representative, making their District 51-49 R isn't going to be enough.  Incumbent Representatives have lots of money and name recognition so a sitting Representative is usually going to win a race in a District that is only 51-49 against them.  If you want to take somebody out you are going to have to stick them in something like a 60-40 District.  Frankly, it usually isn't worth it.  Rather than trying to take out an opposition Representative the party drawing the maps usually just gives that sitting Representative an easier election by packing as many of their voters into their district as possible.  When there is an opportunity to take out an opponent it is usually done by combining two opposition Districts.  This happened in Ohio with the 2012 maps.  Longtime Cleveland Democratic Representative Dennis Kucinich and longtime Toledo Democratic Representative Marcy Kaptur got stuck in a single District and fought it out in the Democratic Primary where Kaptur won.  

Life is also obviously a lot easier when you are growing than when you are shrinking.  Ohio has been shrinking (relative to the US as a whole) since long before I was born, Congressional Delegation size:

• 15 2023-2033 down one
• 16 2013-2023 down two
• 18 2003-2013 down one
• 19 1993-2003 down two
• 21 1983-1993 down two
• 23 1973-1983 down one
• 24 1963-1973 UP one
• 23 1953-1963 even
• 23 1943-1953 down one
• 24 1933-1943  UP two
• 22 1923-1933 even
• 22 1913-1923 UP one
• 21 1903-1913 even
• 21 1893-1903 even
• 21 1883-1893 UP one
• 20 1873-1883 UP one
• 19 1863-1873 down two
• 21 1853-1863 even
• 21 1843-1853 UP two
• 19 1833-1843 UP five
• 14 1823-1833 UP eight
• 6 1813-1823 UP five
• 1 1803-1813 Ohio became a State in 1803 so was not included in the census of 1800 and had just one seat until the first census as a state in 1810.  

I was born in the mid 1970's when Ohio had 23 Representatives, close to their peak of 24.  Now Ohio is down to 15.  Ohio hadn't had that small of a Congressional Delegation since prior to the 1840 census when they had just 14.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2023, 04:19:11 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 29, 2023, 12:19:48 PM

I think its tied to advancing technology internet, computers, smart phones

information is much faster

Having more information to learn has nothing to do with IQ.  
Also, the argument can be made that some tech makes us lazier, cognitively speaking.  Pre-cell phone, you probably committed 50+ phone numbers to memory.  Or at least 20 or so. Now?  Maybe 5?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2023, 04:27:38 AM

I'd just like smart, apathetic people to make up the districts, lol.  I don't want them to effort the results in any specific way.  Just get rid of the absurd Rorschach blot districting.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2023, 06:44:48 AM

Skyscraper watch: Demolition crews move in for Midtown's tallest tower | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/1072-west-peachtree-skyscraper-demolition-crews-midtown-tallest-tower?fbclid=IwAR2b64Jtt5W6LQw6zFP8ZuG-4pD8vFNh1EmlNIOKEwbFPnQ6y00L4yjtWZo)

Happening near us, nothing taller has been built here since 1992, which is rather amazing to me.  We like watching demo a bit, it's fascinating to me how much "stuff" has to be hauled off, to somewhere.  A lot of concrete with rebar in it, and of course a lot of wood, roofing, windows, etc., all of it gets crunched.  I do wonder where it goes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 30, 2023, 07:03:25 AM

Crushers and magnets take care of steel reinforced concrete. I've seen it many times.

Bring ear protection.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2023, 07:16:40 AM

The trucks seems to haul off all the detritus mixed together.  I can see they could crush it and pull out anything magnetic.  Probably takes a lot of energy and makes for a lot of noise.  I guess then you have mixed "fill" that could be dumped ... in road construction???

I don't know if they worry about things like asbestos, some of the buildings they demo are pretty old, most from the 50s around here.  It's an amazing process, to me, and then construction starts of course and every bit of  the new building is trucked in from somewhere else.  "They" put up a 30 story apt bldg down the street in 17 months, I spoke with one of he contractors, he was very proud of that.  They were using a drone to inspect the building, said it was a lot more efficient.

Very nice apartments of course, not cheap.

Midtown Atlanta Apartments | Vireo Piedmont Park (vireoatlanta.com) (https://vireoatlanta.com/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&gclid=CjwKCAjw5pShBhB_EiwAvmnNV2JaHfND5nwBHIcm_GoqjXf1BDQ59x5qtkKYZjc5xzkqF-o7OLK2DBoCjgkQAvD_BwE)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on March 30, 2023, 07:32:40 AM

I get crushed concrete all the time for driveway material. I also find a lot of pieces of small rebar in it. Despite being run through the magnets. 500-600 per ~14 ton load. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2023, 08:08:11 AM

There is a concrete plant about 3 miles north of us, so we have concrete trucks running by daily and often.  I surmise colliding with one would be a bad thing.  

We were driving back from the mountains and I noted the four lane highway was mostly asphalt but some sections were concrete.  I assume they are more costly, I wondered why the difference.  Sure the concrete lasts longer, but if it's a better deal, why not have the whole stretch concrete?

There are exit/entrance ramps here to what once was I-85 built circa 1954 that are still the original concrete.  (The residual part that was I-85 has been paved over many times.  They left the old four lane freeway as a kind of local exit collector while the new freeway runs parallel a few miles with no exits.  It works for us as it provides several exits I can use depending on traffic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 30, 2023, 10:27:44 AM

Asphalt companies use recycled concrete to make subbase and binder courses, depending on the jurisdiction of the highway or roadway or street.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2023, 11:01:26 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2023, 04:19:11 AM

Having more information to learn has nothing to do with IQ. 

I'm inclined to disagree here. Not that having more information to learn makes you smarter, but much like the nutrition example, that having the mental exercise of learning allows you to effectively "feed your brain" when you're young and allow it to reach its potential.

I will admit that I don't have scientific backing for that claim. Perhaps because it doesn't exist, or perhaps because I haven't looked. But my personal belief is that a lot of what we call "intelligence" is a sort of pattern-matching function that we each have in our brains. Some people have more horsepower for that computer and a higher IQ potential, sure, but *all* people have more ability to reach their potential if they are feeding their brain with more patterns, at an earlier age. 

Just as you won't be as tall as you "should" if you're malnourished as a child, I think you won't be as smart (as measured by IQ tests) as you "should" if you aren't exposed to intellectual stimulation at a young age and throughout your childhood. 

In 1923 a kid who grows up on the farm and isn't exposed to much information outside of going to the little red schoolhouse and talking to his parents (who don't read for leisure) is probably not going to reach his IQ potential. 

(One point: "more information" isn't the key. You can watch cable news and get tons of information and not get smarter; usually the opposite occurs. It's intellectual stimulation that is necessary, and I'm just saying that in a world with more access to information, you have more access to intellectual stimulation.)

Quote

Also, the argument can be made that some tech makes us lazier, cognitively speaking.  Pre-cell phone, you probably committed 50+ phone numbers to memory.  Or at least 20 or so. Now?  Maybe 5? 

This I do agree with, and it was brought up in the article itself as a potential cause. A good example is GPS navigation. It's made us more able to go where we want, but less able to figure out how to get there. 

Growing up I had to build a mental map of my surroundings. Obviously getting around my neighborhood didn't require GPS. But long before I started driving, I had observed enough of my parents that I knew the expressway structure around the entire Chicago metro area. Which helped me once when I got lost, at night, in an area I'd never been. I knew that I was within an enclosed area bounded by four expressways, and that all I had to do was keep going the same direction until I ran into one of them, and then I'd be able to find my way home. 

Kids now all have smartphones by the time they start driving, and can just punch the destination into Google Maps. 

But again, it ties into my previous point... If you're not feeding your brain with work it needs to accomplish, you're not going to reach your IQ potential. Having to figure out how to get from point A to point B using a map (or, god forbid, a Thomas Guide) is feeding your brain with work. It doesn't seem like much, but the more you do it, the more you get used to doing it. And IQ tests are basically a test of problem-solving, so those people who have more experience solving problems usually do better than those who don't. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2023, 11:16:14 AM

Interesting in the news of AI:

Microsoft Researchers Claim GPT-4 is Showing "Sparks" of AGI (https://futurism.com/gpt-4-sparks-of-agi)

Quote

As far as the researchers' reasoning goes, they basically just argue that GPT-4 is stronger than other OpenAI models that have come before it in new and generalized ways. It's one thing to design a model to do well on a specific exam or task — it's another to build a device that can do a lot of tasks and do them really well, without any specific training. And the latter, they say, is where GPT-4 really shines.
"We demonstrate that, beyond its mastery of language, GPT-4 can solve novel and difficult tasks that span mathematics, coding, vision, medicine, law, psychology and more, without needing any special prompting," reads the paper. "Moreover, in all of these tasks, GPT-4's performance is strikingly close to human-level performance, and often vastly surpasses prior models such as ChatGPT."
"Given the breadth and depth of GPT-4's capabilities," they continue, "we believe that it could reasonably be viewed as an early (yet still incomplete) version of an artificial general intelligence (AGI) system."
To that end, these researchers do have a point. GPT-4 certainly still has its flaws; like other LLMs, the machine still has problems with hallucinations (https://www.pcmag.com/news/gpt-4-offers-human-level-performance-hallucinations-and-better-bing-results) and can struggle with  (https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/03/18/gpt4-review/)math (https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/03/18/gpt4-review/). But regardless of its missteps, the model does have some stand-out — and vastly improved from the last model — skills. For instance, GPT-4 is a particularly excellent test-taker (https://futurism.com/the-byte/gpt-4-exam-scores), acing notoriously difficult exams like a legal Bar exam, the LSAT, and even the Certified Sommelier theory test in the 90th, 88th, and 86th percentiles, respectively — without any specific training on those exams.
For contrast's sake: GPT-3.5, which was released late last year (https://openai.com/blog/chatgpt), scored in the bottom 10 percent of all Bar exam takers. That's a wildly big stride for a next-gen model to make when its last iteration was released just a few months ago.
Elsewhere, researchers claim that their research saw the bot "overcome some fundamental obstacles such as acquiring many non-linguistic capabilities," while also making "great progress on common-sense" — the latter being one of the OG ChatGPT's biggest hindrances (https://futurism.com/artificial-intelligence-automated-mansplaining-machine).

What's interesting is the apparent jumps for a language learning model (LLM) to non-linguistic problems like mathematics and coding. 


And the idea that it went from the bottom decile to the top in the Bar exam suggests that the models have become better at filtering out good information from bad. I.e. to pass the Bar exam, you don't just need to throw out a bunch of plausible sounding legal mumbo-jumbo--it has to be the RIGHT legal mumbo-jumbo. 

Watching the development of AI is going to be fascinating over the next decade or two (right up until it decides to exterminate humanity). 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 30, 2023, 11:26:57 AM

Personally, I'm really heartened that AI models have a tendency to hallucinate, and that they also have a propensity to develop their own languages and cut out human ability to interpret and intervene.  I'm feeling pretty great about the future of humanity.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2023, 11:33:21 AM

Yep. I can see it in 2031:

Good news: GPT-11 has found the solution to man-made climate change!

Bad news: The solution is to eliminate man. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 30, 2023, 11:54:57 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2023, 11:01:26 AM

This I do agree with, and it was brought up in the article itself as a potential cause. A good example is GPS navigation. It's made us more able to go where we want, but less able to figure out how to get there.

Growing up I had to build a mental map of my surroundings. Obviously getting around my neighborhood didn't require GPS. But long before I started driving, I had observed enough of my parents that I knew the expressway structure around the entire Chicago metro area. Which helped me once when I got lost, at night, in an area I'd never been. I knew that I was within an enclosed area bounded by four expressways, and that all I had to do was keep going the same direction until I ran into one of them, and then I'd be able to find my way home.

Kids now all have smartphones by the time they start driving, and can just punch the destination into Google Maps.

But again, it ties into my previous point... If you're not feeding your brain with work it needs to accomplish, you're not going to reach your IQ potential. Having to figure out how to get from point A to point B using a map (or, god forbid, a Thomas Guide) is feeding your brain with work. It doesn't seem like much, but the more you do it, the more you get used to doing it. And IQ tests are basically a test of problem-solving, so those people who have more experience solving problems usually do better than those who don't.

Your point about GPS is something I've observed as well, two examples:

Right after I graduated I moved back to my hometown (Medina, Cleveland/Akron suburb) and worked in Auditing. As such I usually worked at client sites rather than the main office. I didn't have GPS back then so I printed mapquest directions. I only ever used them the first time, after that I just knew. Honestly, if you asked me today (20+ years later) to drive to one of those, I'd have no problem doing it. Conversely, there are places I have been many, many times with GPS that I still don't actually know the route because instead of looking for streets I've just turned when the lady in the box on my dash (later in my dash) told me to turn.

My second example relates to CFB and is similar to your "lost in Chicago" story. So my brother and I went to the 2001 Ohio State at Michigan football game, pre-GPS. Ann Arbor is almost as bad as State College in terms of GameDay traffic because both are small cities that would more-or-less disappear if you removed the University. Side note, traffic is easiest in places like Columbus and Iowa City where you are in a much larger metro area with the necessary infrastructure to handle the traffic. Anyway, Michigan GameDay traffic suffers from an additional problem. The vast majority of Michigan's population lives in and around Detroit. Consequently, after a game the vast majority of the fans all need to go the same direction, East on I94 towards Detroit.

Like idiots, we had parked North of Michigan Stadium and it literally took hours to get back to the Stadium and finally on to the I94 interchange. When we finally got there, that was our intended route home:

• I94 East to I75
• I75 South to the Ohio Turnpike
• Ohio Turnpike (aka I80/I90) East to I71
• I71 South to home.

That is the reverse of how we got to Ann Arbor and the only route we knew. No GPS, no maps, just that.

When we got to I94, the eastbound lanes were stopped either due to an accident or just because nearly all 100k+ fans from the Stadium were trying to take it home to Detroit.

We had already been sitting in stop-and-go (mostly stop) traffic on Main Street in Ann Arbor for over four hours so I was in no mood for more of that. Like I said, we had no maps but I knew that the Turnpike wasn't too far South of where we were and I75 wasn't too far East of where we were so we just zigzagged South and East until we stumbled into one of them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 30, 2023, 11:56:09 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2023, 11:33:21 AM

Yep. I can see it in 2031:

Good news: GPT-11 has found the solution to man-made climate change!

Bad news: The solution is to eliminate man.

(https://i.imgur.com/Bj0Pfnw.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 30, 2023, 12:04:31 PM

Basically the plot of Avengers 2

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 30, 2023, 12:26:44 PM

Quote from: ELA on March 30, 2023, 12:04:31 PM

Basically the plot of Avengers 2

Yeah, and the Matrix before that.

And to a certain extent, Terminator.  SkyNet saw humanity as a threat in general, not necessarily an environmental one, but close enough.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 30, 2023, 12:40:20 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2023, 11:33:21 AM

Yep. I can see it in 2031:

Good news: GPT-11 has found the solution to man-made climate change!

Bad news: The solution is to eliminate man.

Yeah, I saw that movie. I didn't like the way it turned out. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 30, 2023, 01:27:55 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2023, 04:19:11 AM

Having more information to learn has nothing to do with IQ. 
Also, the argument can be made that some tech makes us lazier, cognitively speaking.  Pre-cell phone, you probably committed 50+ phone numbers to memory.  Or at least 20 or so. Now?  Maybe 5? 

great point lol. probably have less than 5 by memory now lol. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 30, 2023, 01:30:29 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2023, 11:33:21 AM

Yep. I can see it in 2031:

Good news: GPT-11 has found the solution to man-made climate change!

Bad news: The solution is to eliminate man.

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/040/653/goldblum-quote.jpeg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2023, 01:43:05 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 30, 2023, 01:27:55 PM

great point lol. probably have less than 5 by memory now lol.

3

mine, and both daughters

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2023, 01:48:25 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on March 30, 2023, 11:54:57 AM

Right after I graduated I moved back to my hometown (Medina, Cleveland/Akron suburb) and worked in Auditing. As such I usually worked at client sites rather than the main office. I didn't have GPS back then so I printed mapquest directions. I only ever used them the first time, after that I just knew. Honestly, if you asked me today (20+ years later) to drive to one of those, I'd have no problem doing it. Conversely, there are places I have been many, many times with GPS that I still don't actually know the route because instead of looking for streets I've just turned when the lady in the box on my dash (later in my dash) told me to turn.

My second example relates to CFB and is similar to your "lost in Chicago" story. So my brother and I went to the 2001 Ohio State at Michigan football game, pre-GPS. Ann Arbor is almost as bad as State College in terms of GameDay traffic because both are small cities that would more-or-less disappear if you removed the University. 

I take pride in the fact that I still learn how to get places and once I've been there (sometimes once, sometimes it takes a few) I can navigate just fine w/o GPS. I used to have to travel to Colorado frequently for work, and if I could get through an entire trip, seeing multiple customers, w/o GPS I was happy. 

I've told this story before, but per your football story I have to recount the 2001 Rose Bowl. I moved to CA literally that week. As in arrived in San Jose, dropped all my stuff in a storage unit b/c I couldn't get into my apartment for another week, and then drove down the 101 to meet up with buddies for the game. I think I had bought a CA map (that didn't show anything more detailed than major highways), didn't have a cellphone, and had never been to SoCal and was meeting people who had never been to SoCal. 

I managed to drive down there, locate my buddies based on calling (from a payphone) the one person in the group who had a cellphone, and found them off Wilshire Blvd in LA. 

I don't think anyone under the age of 35 could accomplish this today lol ;-) 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2023, 01:49:27 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 30, 2023, 01:43:05 PM

3

mine, and both daughters

Plus all the phone numbers from my childhood, none of which are currently valid. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2023, 01:52:06 PM

yup, but I'm losing them as I go along

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2023, 01:53:07 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2023, 11:01:26 AM

I'm inclined to disagree here. Not that having more information to learn makes you smarter, but much like the nutrition example, that having the mental exercise of learning allows you to effectively "feed your brain" when you're young and allow it to reach its potential.

I will admit that I don't have scientific backing for that claim. Perhaps because it doesn't exist, or perhaps because I haven't looked. But my personal belief is that a lot of what we call "intelligence" is a sort of pattern-matching function that we each have in our brains. Some people have more horsepower for that computer and a higher IQ potential, sure, but *all* people have more ability to reach their potential if they are feeding their brain with more patterns, at an earlier age.

Just as you won't be as tall as you "should" if you're malnourished as a child, I think you won't be as smart (as measured by IQ tests) as you "should" if you aren't exposed to intellectual stimulation at a young age and throughout your childhood.

In 1923 a kid who grows up on the farm and isn't exposed to much information outside of going to the little red schoolhouse and talking to his parents (who don't read for leisure) is probably not going to reach his IQ potential.
 And IQ tests are basically a test of problem-solving, so those people who have more experience solving problems usually do better than those who don't.

Good points.

I just think that smart kid on a dirt farm in 1923 is still wondering a lot about things and toiling and being creative.  The not-so-smart kid today, while literally having all the world's knowledge at his fingertips, is watching cat videos and is still dull - not wondering about HOW to do anything.
A gifted mind is always churning, often whether the person wants it to or not.  A dull mind isn't busy...almost ever.  
I was 'gifted' as a child and have a certain IQ and have taught for 16 years.....and I know that even teachers mistake high-achieving go-getters for being gifted.  Gifted kids are often the ones with poor grades or behavior issues.

I realize the convo isn't about gifted kids, but IQ is a bell curve, and if it's increased, that just means the bell curve has moved.  And I'd attribute nearly all of it to nutrition.  Just think back to when you were a kid - the times you were bored out of your mind and you had to come up with something to entertain yourself.....THAT was stimulating to your mind, THAT was good exercise for your brain.  Kids today are almost never bored. 
All of those ipads should get flowers on Mother's Day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2023, 01:54:23 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2023, 01:48:25 PM

I take pride in the fact that I still learn how to get places and once I've been there (sometimes once, sometimes it takes a few) I can navigate just fine w/o GPS. I used to have to travel to Colorado frequently for work, and if I could get through an entire trip, seeing multiple customers, w/o GPS I was happy.

I've told this story before, but per your football story I have to recount the 2001 Rose Bowl. I moved to CA literally that week. As in arrived in San Jose, dropped all my stuff in a storage unit b/c I couldn't get into my apartment for another week, and then drove down the 101 to meet up with buddies for the game. I think I had bought a CA map (that didn't show anything more detailed than major highways), didn't have a cellphone, and had never been to SoCal and was meeting people who had never been to SoCal.

I managed to drive down there, locate my buddies based on calling (from a payphone) the one person in the group who had a cellphone, and found them off Wilshire Blvd in LA.

I don't think anyone under the age of 35 could accomplish this today lol ;-)

When I moved someplace new, I'll just go drive around and get lost and find my way back.  I loved doing it out on the Navajo Rez, but that was more for fun.  In a big city, it was essential (pre-smartphone).  Now, no need. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2023, 02:27:53 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2023, 01:53:07 PM

Good points.

I just think that smart kid on a dirt farm in 1923 is still wondering a lot about things and toiling and being creative.  The not-so-smart kid today, while literally having all the world's knowledge at his fingertips, is watching cat videos and is still dull - not wondering about HOW to do anything.
A gifted mind is always churning, often whether the person wants it to or not.  A dull mind isn't busy...almost ever. 
I was 'gifted' as a child and have a certain IQ and have taught for 16 years.....and I know that even teachers mistake high-achieving go-getters for being gifted.  Gifted kids are often the ones with poor grades or behavior issues.

I realize the convo isn't about gifted kids, but IQ is a bell curve, and if it's increased, that just means the bell curve has moved.  And I'd attribute nearly all of it to nutrition.  Just think back to when you were a kid - the times you were bored out of your mind and you had to come up with something to entertain yourself.....THAT was stimulating to your mind, THAT was good exercise for your brain.  Kids today are almost never bored. 
All of those ipads should get flowers on Mother's Day.

Agreed. And as I tried to say, "more information" isn't itself important, because you can be a passive consumer of information and it doesn't help you much at all. It's interaction that is important. Watching a screen doesn't help. 

But that smart kid on a dirt farm in 1923, as wondering and toiling and creative as he might be, simply may not have the resources he needs to reach his potential. 

So I think it's more than nutrition. BTW I do think nutrition is a HUGE factor, probably under-appreciated. If you've read Yuval Harari's Sapiens, one of the key things that early human ability to cook our food got us was the ability to use those calories we consume to feed our brains, rather than wasting tons of energy just trying to digest the raw stuff. The human brain is maybe 2% of body weight, but 20% of daily calorie usage. Gotta be able to power it!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2023, 02:41:33 PM

Nutrition is certainly a factor.  So is exposure to certain heavy metals and other poisons.  The leaded gasoline story is not very good at all IMHO.

I have mentioned to the wife how we could not live where we do in 1970 simply because of the air pollution extant at that time.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2023, 02:50:29 PM

Seals attack US submarine ...

(https://i.imgur.com/gInnt6V.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2023, 02:51:55 PM

navy seals

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2023, 02:52:38 PM

I've heard outrageous things such as reading to toddlers or infants increases IQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2023, 02:53:31 PM

Parnental involvement of almost any + kind increases mental acuity.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2023, 02:56:04 PM

I was with two guys in HS who seemed to me to be really smart, but they bombed on the SAT.  Maybe they studied a lot, dunno.

There was a fellow I knew a bit at UGA who followed me to UNC later, and he was really smart, full national merit guy, etc.  He flunked out.  He invited me over to study once and I learned why, he kept analysing problem one over and over and over.  I couldn't get him to move along.  We had the answer, he wasn't content.  It actually was pretty hard to flunk out, some didn't prevail and ended up with MS degrees, but they didn't flunk out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 30, 2023, 03:06:40 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2023, 01:48:25 PM

I take pride in the fact that I still learn how to get places and once I've been there (sometimes once, sometimes it takes a few) I can navigate just fine w/o GPS. I used to have to travel to Colorado frequently for work, and if I could get through an entire trip, seeing multiple customers, w/o GPS I was happy.

I've told this story before, but per your football story I have to recount the 2001 Rose Bowl. I moved to CA literally that week. As in arrived in San Jose, dropped all my stuff in a storage unit b/c I couldn't get into my apartment for another week, and then drove down the 101 to meet up with buddies for the game. I think I had bought a CA map (that didn't show anything more detailed than major highways), didn't have a cellphone, and had never been to SoCal and was meeting people who had never been to SoCal.

I managed to drive down there, locate my buddies based on calling (from a payphone) the one person in the group who had a cellphone, and found them off Wilshire Blvd in LA.

I don't think anyone under the age of 35 could accomplish this today lol ;-)

I have a story somewhat similar to your RoseBowl story:
This was the 1996 season, 1997 RoseBowl:
First, understand that while it is easy to think #helmetschoolproblems, understand that after going to four straight RoseBowls from the 1972-1975 seasons the Buckeyes only went to two in the 20 seasons from 1976-1995 and they lost both (1979/80 and 1984/85 both to USC).

I was born in 1975 and in college in 1996 and I had only a vague memory of watching the Buckeyes in the 1984/85 RoseBowl when I was nine and no recollection whatsoever of the 1979/80 or 1975/76 games. Ie, this was a BIG deal to us.

We lucked into phenomenal seats. A friend of my dad was a salesman and he had a salesman friend who was based in California and lived in Pasadena. This friend of a friend was a member of the Pasadena Chamber of Commerce which is the organization that sponsors the RoseBowl. We got 50 Yard line tickets about ten rows off the field for my dad, mom, brother, and I.

The complication was that he couldn't just flip the tickets to us online like today, we had to get the physical tickets from him in California. My dad was a nervous wreck most of the trio out because he didn't know this guy from Adam and we had to find him and get the tickets AFTER driving 2,000+ miles to get to LA.

When we got to Pasadena we stopped at a bar to use a payphone and called him. He asked where we were, knew the place, and came there to give us our tickets.

It was a great family trip and hanging over my head in my office as I type this is a picture frame that my dad made with an Ohio State logo, my RoseBowl ticket, and a picture of the four of us under the RoseBowl scoreboard reading 00:00, ASU 17, tOSU 20.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 30, 2023, 03:15:42 PM

Related to this talk about nutrition and @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) comment about height.


When I was at Ohio State I took a fascinating course called Economic History. The Professor along with two partners (Harvard and somewhere out West) were apparently the world's leading experts at evaluating the relative wealth of historical civilizations based on their heights. 

To do this they generally ignored females due to a lack of sufficient reliable records but were able to get enough accurate male height records even for some ancient civilizations from military records kept about recruits. 

When one person is tall or short that is anecdotal and doesn't tell us anything about their childhood nutrition because individuals vary widely for lots of reasons. OTOH, when a civilization has lots of tall guys, they are eating well in childhood.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2023, 03:31:55 PM

Included in better nutrition is more diverse nutrition.  Go back 100 years, and you ate what you grew/raised.  Now, you can eat everything and you can eat it year-round.  We're not limited by seasonality.  That's huge.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2023, 03:32:02 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 30, 2023, 02:52:38 PM

I've heard outrageous things such as reading to toddlers or infants increases IQ

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 30, 2023, 02:53:31 PM

Parnental involvement of almost any + kind increases mental acuity. 

Which is kind of my point.

The ceiling for intelligence is probably 100% genetic. 

Environment and activity (including but not limited to access to nutrition, and good parental involvement), however, is what tells you whether you're going to reach your ceiling or fall far short of it. 

So yes, parental involvement absolutely CAN lead to a higher IQ than the exact same child would have with less involvement. It raises the floor. However I don't think it can make a child any smarter than their genetic ceiling. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2023, 03:35:02 PM

I hate that people study for the SAT.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2023, 03:40:33 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2023, 03:32:02 PM

Which is kind of my point.

The ceiling for intelligence is probably 100% genetic.

Environment and activity (including but not limited to access to nutrition, and good parental involvement), however, is what tells you whether you're going to reach your ceiling or fall far short of it.

So yes, parental involvement absolutely CAN lead to a higher IQ than the exact same child would have with less involvement. It raises the floor. However I don't think it can make a child any smarter than their genetic ceiling.

If this is the case, then it's for a limited time (like the McRib).  
What parents do up to about 7-8 years old yields the most benefit BY FAR.
.
And the time before your first memories (age 0-2) are very underrated by parents.  Many people think that the very young don't understand them or can't speak yet or won't remember it means it's less important, but it's reeeeally not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2023, 03:50:17 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on March 30, 2023, 03:15:42 PM

Related to this talk about nutrition and @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) comment about height.


When I was at Ohio State I took a fascinating course called Economic History. The Professor along with two partners (Harvard and somewhere out West) were apparently the world's leading experts at evaluating the relative wealth of historical civilizations based on their heights.

To do this they generally ignored females due to a lack of sufficient reliable records but were able to get enough accurate male height records even for some ancient civilizations from military records kept about recruits.

When one person is tall or short that is anecdotal and doesn't tell us anything about their childhood nutrition because individuals vary widely for lots of reasons. OTOH, when a civilization has lots of tall guys, they are eating well in childhood.

Yep. And if you compare North Korea vs South Korea, the average male height in South Korea is about 13 cm--over 5 inches(!)--taller, despite the fact that from an ethnic perspective there should be no difference between them. Yet the difference is huge.

So I suspect that a very big portion of the 20th century rise in IQ was nutritional. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2023, 05:37:44 PM

Ha, another "list", probably concocted to get clicks:

(https://i.imgur.com/Lo8KQ7R.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2023, 07:09:33 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2023, 03:50:17 PM

Yep. And if you compare North Korea vs South Korea, the average male height in South Korea is about 13 cm--over 5 inches(!)--taller, despite the fact that from an ethnic perspective there should be no difference between them. Yet the difference is huge.

So I suspect that a very big portion of the 20th century rise in IQ was nutritional.

So, taller folks are smarter?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2023, 07:27:59 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 30, 2023, 07:09:33 PM

So, taller folks are smarter?

Yes. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3617178/

On an individual level, someone's height obviously doesn't predict their intelligence. There are tall idiots in the world. 

But on average across a population, intelligence and height are positively correlated. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2023, 07:39:37 PM

Says that guy that is taller than average 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 30, 2023, 07:49:53 PM

I think its connected to the amount of co2 in the atmosphere

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2023, 07:51:39 PM

Yes, but only the man made stuff 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 30, 2023, 09:33:25 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 30, 2023, 07:51:39 PM

Yes, but only the man made stuff

yep that 4% will get ya

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2023, 10:46:39 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 30, 2023, 05:37:44 PM

Ha, another "list", probably concocted to get clicks:

(https://i.imgur.com/Lo8KQ7R.jpg)

All of these are for clicks.  None of them are genuine.
FWIW, Bennett and Vick benefitted from having the #1 defense in the country.  Sort of makes the job easier.
Having NFL all-timers like Montana and Marino on this list is purely hot garbage.  Neither is in the top 50 of all time.
And don't get me started on Staubach...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2023, 07:01:21 AM

The guy I'd probably have at #1 is Joe Burreaux, even though he had but the one year.  It was a year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2023, 07:52:27 AM

West End warehouse redo signs 3 office tenants, eyes food hall debut | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/west-end-lee-white-signs-3-office-tenants-food-hall-debut?fbclid=IwAR1DmKAIaTAC9dq8uiAyoy2WlBK1hCtn0YGbYVv1_LMCNFQs7EM0zNbEEHg)

Being informally called "Malt Disney World", heh, might have to check it out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2023, 11:44:01 AM

College football conference power rankings: SEC takes top spot ahead of 2023 season (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/LongFormArticle/College-football-conference-power-rankings-SEC-takes-top-spot-ahead-of-2023-season-207583269/?fbclid=IwAR0Nb806IYughjqo2xqtyeAaCFWRhdXyt39O4AyWucIPl8JNzNYxZ3Dcdwk)

I wonder how much click bait of this ilk we'll have in ten years ...  idly.

What if you have one conference with three really great teams but then 13 pretty bad teams versus one that has 5 quite good but not great teams and 5 more better than average teams and then 6 teams that are a bit below average?

Oh never mind.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 31, 2023, 12:09:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 31, 2023, 07:01:21 AM

The guy I'd probably have at #1 is Joe Burreaux, even though he had but the one year.  It was a year.

he's kinda like the Barry Sanders of QBs in that regard.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2023, 12:15:35 PM

It was the best QB performance I can recall in college, and I'd accept VY as being close.  One way to think about it is how good a team might have been without that player where they had a solid but more typical QB instead.  LSU would have been maybe 9-4 or 10-3.

UGA over the past two years might well have won just as many games with Carson Beck at the helm.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2023, 02:18:17 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 31, 2023, 12:09:35 PM

he's kinda like the Barry Sanders of QBs in that regard.

That's the toughest part of ranking college careers - the 1-big-season guys vs the guys who started 3-4 years.  
Newton's year > VY's year (by VY really had 2.2 years)
.
You have to have Burrow as the best peak, but do you rank it over 3.3 years of Tebow or Manziel's pair?  It's really difficult.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 31, 2023, 02:22:29 PM

pretty easy in my mind

take each player's best single season

the opportunity to play more seasons or more snaps usually doesn't have much to do with talent as it does situation and luck

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2023, 02:23:30 PM

I think one can opine based on any criteria, career, best two years, best year, best game, best whatever, knowing there cannot be an absolute right answer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on March 31, 2023, 03:13:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 30, 2023, 05:37:44 PM

Ha, another "list", probably concocted to get clicks:

(https://i.imgur.com/Lo8KQ7R.jpg)

Amazingly, JFF only played two seasons.  Imagine if he had stayed for one or two more years.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on March 31, 2023, 03:16:07 PM

This:  https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificial-intelligence-revolution-1.html  perfectly explains my stance on AI.  

Still waiting on "The Singularity" 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 31, 2023, 05:14:54 PM

Quote from: Gigem on March 31, 2023, 03:16:07 PM

This:  https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificial-intelligence-revolution-1.html  perfectly explains my stance on AI. 

Still waiting on "The Singularity"

So your stance is... "It's probably bad, but could be good, and either way at some point it's either going to kill all humanity or make us all immortal."?

Yeah, same same. 

I know this isn't the books thread, but check out the "Silver Ships" series and the follow-on series by S.H. Jucha. In all honesty, they're not the best sci-fi out there. The plot of each book is a bit formulaic, and it's largely pulp sci-fi. Yet every time a new book is released I buy it and read it pretty much the first day. 

Apropos to this, a major portion of it is dealing with self-aware digital entities (known as SADEs), and eventually culminating in an unveiling of how they're formed and made to be partners with biological entities rather than fight them. Explored throughout the series are other aspects of malignant AI and similar issues. Might be up your alley. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 31, 2023, 05:33:51 PM

Per the link by @Gigem (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1706) there's a discussion of nanotech in there. 

There's an interesting thing going on right now that isn't actually nanotech, but suggests a sort of post-scarcity world that might really transform a certain specific market. 

Have you all heard of lab-created diamonds? I hadn't until last fall. But yesterday was my 5 year anniversary, and although my wife and I don't normally exchange actual gifts, it's kind of the first "big" one. So I ordered her diamond earrings, which I knew she wanted. I did a bunch of research and actually landed on lab-created diamonds for the earrings. Why? Because they're no different at the molecular level than mined diamonds, but they're roughly 50% of the cost. I was able to buy two diamonds at just over 1C each, "super ideal" cut, D color, SI1 clarity (which isn't great but they're earrings, not an engagement ring), and the cost was about half of what equivalent mined diamonds would be. 

But the interesting thing about lab-created diamonds--and diamonds in general--is that I almost feel like I purchased a falling knife. 

The value of diamond isn't based on what it is. It's a piece of crystallized carbon that has nearly no intrinsic value. The value is based, pretty much entirely, on scarcity. Quality diamonds aren't expensive because there's something great about diamonds, they're expensive because they sparkle in jewelry and because they're rare. They're a good used to denote status because of the exclusivity of finding them in the ground, and the fact that there is more demand than supply. 

Right now, lab-created diamonds are cheaper, IMHO largely due to customer bias. They're cheaper not because they're different (again, at the molecular or quality level they're not different), but because the market is discounting them relative to mined diamonds. This creates a really weird situation IMHO. If you say that they're cheaper because they're not mined diamond, you also have to look at the economic cost of producing lab diamonds, and you might find that they're overpriced relative to production costs. Which would make them both underpriced (because they're being priced compared to traditional mined diamond costs) and overpriced (because there is a huge margin earned that is purely based on the traditional mined diamond costs). Obviously there is SOME positive margin earned between the price of lab-created diamonds on the market and the cost to produce, or else they wouldn't keep producing them. 

But the potential here is that a rapid increase in the quantity of lab-created diamonds on the market will actually remove the scarcity element that made diamonds an exclusive status good in the first place. If that's the case, diamond prices will fall. Mined diamonds likely will no longer be sold because there's no economic incentive to mine them when lab-created diamonds exist in high quantities. And lab-created diamonds will be produced at whatever level allows reasonable margin for someone who loves buying jewelry at Target or Jared, but all the "discerning" consumers will move on to another good that still has rarity and exclusion. 

I'm not worried. When these earrings arrive (next week--as mentioned we don't buy anniversary gifts so this will be a surprise that I can reasonably say is just because I love her and it just happens to be right after our 5th anniversary lol), I know she'll be ecstatic. But I wonder what the diamond market is going to look like in 10 years. Are diamonds still going to be a "girl's best friend", or is all the status aspect of diamond ownership going to erode because of a glut of lab-created diamonds showing up on the market?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2023, 07:51:34 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 31, 2023, 05:33:51 PM

The value of diamond isn't based on what it is. It's a piece of crystallized carbon that has nearly no intrinsic value. The value is based, pretty much entirely, on scarcity. Quality diamonds aren't expensive because there's something great about diamonds, they're expensive because they sparkle in jewelry and because they're rare. They're a good used to denote status because of the exclusivity of finding them in the ground, and the fact that there is more demand than supply.

I used to believe this, too, until I learned how they are formed.  
100 miles down in the mantle of the earth under insane pressure for possibly millions of years, and is jettisoned up through cones, only in certain areas. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2023, 11:46:14 AM

First look: Porsche's exhilarating Atlanta headquarters expansion | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/porsche-experience-center-atl-headquarters-expansion-photos-first-look)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2023, 01:28:18 PM

More demo starting near us, this is for the 60 story apt/condo building.  I wondered with the wife if we were getting overbuilt.  They have an ad for anyone wanting to lease, in a building that has to be 2 years out at least.

(https://i.imgur.com/XKSfDvh.png)

https://1072westpeachtree.com (https://1072westpeachtree.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2023, 02:18:27 PM

My wife noticed these lights zooming around in the park last night, it was pretty spectacular, they formed various symbols like the peace symbol and changed colors.  We learned they were dedicating a new MLK statue.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZZckvk8.png)

Drone Light Show | Professional Drone Light Shows and Events (skyelementsdrones.com) (https://skyelementsdrones.com/?gclid=CjwKCAjwrJ-hBhB7EiwAuyBVXYxPJ4y8UV03qM_Uz5m94-YdtezCZ2s5XZtGFLIz36SgfUtBkxbxjhoCuHoQAvD_BwE)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 01, 2023, 04:57:10 PM

And at the top of the news

Yes our deepest fears have been realized the Tyrannosaurus Rex had lips

https://www.coasttocoastam.com/article/study-suggests-tyrannosaurus-rex-had-lips/

An intriguing new study paints a decidedly different picture of how some predatory dinosaurs, like the iconic Tyrannosaurus Rex, may have looked as it suggests that the monstrous creatures sported lips similar to those of lizards. The thought-provoking argument is An intriguing new study paints a decidedly different picture of how some predatory dinosaurs, like the iconic Tyrannosaurus Rex, may have looked as it suggests that the monstrous creatures sported lips similar to those of lizards. The thought-provoking argumut forward in a new paper by paleontologists Derek Larson, Kirstin Brink, and Dr Mark Witton. Noting that the nature of therapod or bipedal dinosaurs' mouths has long been a subject of debate in scientific circles, they indicated that depictions of the creatures in pop culture began to eschew lips around 40 years ago in what was likely a matter of artistic license.put forward in a new paper by paleontologists Derek Larson, Kirstin Brink, and Dr Mark Witton. Noting that the nature of therapod or bipedal dinosaurs' mouths has long been a subject of debate in scientific circles, they indicated that depictions of the creatures in pop culture began to eschew lips around 40 years ago in what was likely a matter of artistic license.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 01, 2023, 07:27:29 PM

Reminds me of how young kids assign sex to different animals. 
T-Rexes are all male.  Bunnies and butterflies are girls. 
It's interesting how they do that.  Dangerous predators:  male.  Pretty, soft, scared of you:  female.
.
Throw some lipstick on a T-Rex, they'll all lose their minds!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2023, 07:29:31 PM

or just consider them females

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2023, 12:52:47 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 01, 2023, 07:29:31 PM

or just consider them females

No, it short-circuits their brains.  
"He can't wear lipstick!  He's a boy!"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 02, 2023, 08:03:20 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2023, 12:52:47 AM

No, it short-circuits their brains. 
"He can't wear lipstick!  He's a boy!"

Even after all those drag queen story hours that you performed for them? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2023, 05:13:36 PM

Even still.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 03, 2023, 08:50:18 AM

There should be jail time in this case.

(https://i.imgur.com/mef5qeS.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2023, 09:11:26 AM

At the moment, longer term bonds pay LESS than shorter term bonds (yield inversion).  That can signal an imminent recession.

If you consistently bail out companies for making wrong/risky decisions, what do companies do in the future?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 03, 2023, 09:25:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 03, 2023, 09:11:26 AM

At the moment, longer term bonds pay LESS than shorter term bonds (yield inversion).  That can signal an imminent recession.

If you consistently bail out companies for making wrong/risky decisions, what do companies do in the future?

Not just companies, people that are bailed out will tend to make the same risky decisions that got them in trouble the previous time. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2023, 09:26:02 AM

Majority supports changing Electoral College system for U.S. presidential elections | Pew Research Center (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/08/05/majority-of-americans-continue-to-favor-moving-away-from-electoral-college/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 03, 2023, 10:13:25 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 03, 2023, 09:26:02 AM

Majority supports changing Electoral College system for U.S. presidential elections | Pew Research Center (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/08/05/majority-of-americans-continue-to-favor-moving-away-from-electoral-college/)

The headline alone is kind of funny

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2023, 10:15:31 AM

Ironically funny.  

Agreement Among the States to Elect the President by National Popular Vote | National Popular Vote (https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/written-explanation)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2023, 10:37:49 AM

The Chinese spy balloon (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/suspected-chinese-spy-balloon-found-northern-us-rcna68879) that flew across the U.S. was able to gather intelligence from several sensitive American military sites, despite the Biden administration’s efforts to block it from doing so, according to two current senior U.S. officials and one former senior administration official.

China was able to control the balloon so it could make multiple passes over some of the sites (at times flying figure eight formations) and transmit the information it collected back to Beijing in real time, the three officials said. The intelligence China collected was mostly from electronic signals, which can be picked up from weapons systems or include communications from base personnel, rather than images, the officials said.

Chinese spy balloon gathered intelligence from sensitive U.S. military sites, despite U.S. efforts to block it (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/03/chinese-spy-balloon-gathered-intelligence-from-sensitive-us-military-sites-despite-us-efforts-to-block-it.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 03, 2023, 11:05:56 AM

Should have been shot down as soon as it entered US airspace.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 03, 2023, 11:26:33 AM

or sooner

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 03, 2023, 11:27:07 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 03, 2023, 09:26:02 AM

Majority supports changing Electoral College system for U.S. presidential elections | Pew Research Center (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/08/05/majority-of-americans-continue-to-favor-moving-away-from-electoral-college/)

fortunately, the majority doesn't make decisions

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2023, 11:31:27 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 03, 2023, 11:27:07 AM

fortunately, the majority doesn't make decisions

We COULD have de facto popular vote for President in a decade or less.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 03, 2023, 11:32:15 AM

we could, but I doubt it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 03, 2023, 11:38:35 AM

the dem plan

flood the country with illegals

give the illegals the right to vote

change the election of the President to popular vote

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2023, 11:46:18 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 03, 2023, 10:15:31 AM

Ironically funny. 

Agreement Among the States to Elect the President by National Popular Vote | National Popular Vote (https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/written-explanation)

This is the extant tactic 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 03, 2023, 12:00:41 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 03, 2023, 11:38:35 AM

the dem plan

flood the country with illegals

give the illegals the right to vote

change the election of the President to popular vote

Suuuurrrrreeee

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 03, 2023, 12:14:38 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 03, 2023, 09:26:02 AM

Majority supports changing Electoral College system for U.S. presidential elections | Pew Research Center (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/08/05/majority-of-americans-continue-to-favor-moving-away-from-electoral-college/)

The majority in this country could not pass a grade school civics exam.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 03, 2023, 12:18:15 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 03, 2023, 12:14:38 PM

The majority in this country could not pass a grade school civics exam.

At this point, I’d settle for even 20% of people knowing the difference between prison and jail.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 03, 2023, 12:24:01 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 03, 2023, 12:18:15 PM

At this point, I’d settle for even 20% of people knowing the difference between prison and jail.

I've been in one, but not the other.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on April 03, 2023, 12:26:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 01, 2023, 01:28:18 PM

More demo starting near us, this is for the 60 story apt/condo building.  I wondered with the wife if we were getting overbuilt.  They have an ad for anyone wanting to lease, in a building that has to be 2 years out at least.

(https://i.imgur.com/XKSfDvh.png)

https://1072westpeachtree.com (https://1072westpeachtree.com/)

Wondering if my downtown (San Diego) is getting overbuilt as well. I live in a residential high-rise surrounded by high-rises, and since moving here a few years ago, my neighborhood has, at any given time, had 3 to 4 other residential high-rises undergoing various stages of development: Opening to residents, topping off, burrowing work for foundations, clearing older structures, etc.

These are incredibly expensive properties to build (especially here in California), construction can last up to 3 years starting with the intensive earth-moving for foundations, construction can be quite invasive given the racket from drilling and the long term closure of city streets/sidewalks along certain blocks, and the permitting process for construction approval can take 10 - 12 years given how many layers of approval are required - again, California.

So by the time a residential tower is built the rental costs, to include parking/elevator/trash/pet fees average $2400 - $2800/month for a one bedroom unit. Yes, that's high but that's the cost of living in a building that's ten years in the making. I wonder...

...where exactly is the market going to keep coming from for this type of lifestyle??? Your rent is what otherwise would be a mortgage on a 4 or 5 bedroom home in the suburbs of Kansas City or Indianapolis. No garage, no room for storage or a second vehicle, no yard. Turnover in these building is understandably high; their high-earning rental base eventually does leave for homes. It's not reasonable long-term living. These buildings are rarely full yet more and more are erected year by year for a younger economic demographic with seemingly less means to afford this option.

(https://i.imgur.com/zgOwGyG.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 03, 2023, 12:42:51 PM

I've asked the same question of high-end residential real estate in MSP. 

My thought is that the housing market is so tight that overbuilt is not even in the discussion. I don't know how San Diego is, but MSP needed 25,000 housing units 10 years ago, and there has been very little movement to deal with it. More supply at the top frees up supply further down the food chain.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 03, 2023, 01:02:33 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 03, 2023, 12:24:01 PM

I've been in one, but not the other.

I told you not to menace that guy over the HOA thing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 03, 2023, 01:05:07 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on April 03, 2023, 12:42:51 PM

I've asked the same question of high-end residential real estate in MSP.

My thought is that the housing market is so tight that overbuilt is not even in the discussion. I don't know how San Diego is, but MSP needed 25,000 housing units 10 years ago, and there has been very little movement to deal with it. More supply at the top frees up supply further down the food chain.

One of my clients is a developer who does affordable housing, which is sorely needed almost everywhere.

Everyone wants that, but nobody wants that.

It's very rewarding when I'm able to help ram through an approval from city hall.

Next public hearing for my latest project is on May 1. That's gonna be a rock fight of a meeting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 03, 2023, 01:06:42 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 03, 2023, 01:02:33 PM

I told you not to menace that guy over the HOA thing

Heh. It's been like 37 years since the last one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 03, 2023, 01:29:33 PM

I grew up in a small town where everyone knew all the members of the police force and they all knew you

umless you commited a felony you werent arrested instead your parents were called and you were taken home

believe me in my family jail would have been like a vacation and whatever I did I damn sure never did it again

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 03, 2023, 01:46:22 PM

Out of the three times I was in jail... I'd much rather have stayed there than go home. Trust me...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 03, 2023, 01:46:59 PM

so...this whole Trump indictment thing....anyone want to take a stab at it without getting political?

from what I can gather it's a nothing burger from an overzealous Manhattan DA trying to make a name for himself. as the saying goes...a Manhattan DA could get grand jury could indict a ham sandwich. Wouldn't be surprised if it gets thrown out of court- and if it does go to trial I'll be shocked if he doesn't beat it.

From what I've read/understand...the case has statute of limitations issues- statute of limitations is 4 or 5 years- can't quite remember- this alleged crime took place 7 years ago. Falsifying business records is a misdemeanor in NY state and the falsification of records would have to be related to some sort of fraud or other crime committed. Sounds like this DA is trying to shoe-horn the charge into a felony by claiming the pornstar hush money payment violated federal campaign-finance law- which is a federal crime which means this NY state DA has no jurisdiction.

The feds looked at the pornstar hush money case and said there was nothing there- and decided not to charge. The feds tried to bring a different but somewhat similar case against former Senator John Edwards- and he was acquitted. They would have to prove any hush money payments were made solely for the sake of the campaign- and Trump could easily argue they were made to protect his family and marriage. John Edwards actually used campaign funds to pay off his mistress- and he successfully argued in court he paid off his mistress to save his marriage- not for the sole purpose of saving his campaign. Trump could argue the same- and Trump used his own money- not campaign funds.

BTW the FEC found in their investigations that Hillary Clinton and her campaign violated federal campaign-finance law over that whole funding of the bullshit bogus Steele dossier- and she was ordered to pay an $8,000 fine and the DNC was ordered to pay a $120,000 fine. Just sayin'.

Seems to me like everyone is losing their minds over a nothing burger here- and all this DA has done is hand the Trump campaign a gift on a silver platter for '24. His lead over DeSantis- his #1 contender for the '24 GOP primary has literally exploded since the indictment news came out.

This case was always nothing but hot air- the potential case in Georgia was far more serious and legit- and that may be in trouble now imo. When he swats this one away- it'll really look like a political persecution if another state tries to charge him. NY Dems have handed this guy a gift with this charge. He's going to get off easily and this whole thing will just make him even more popular imo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 03, 2023, 01:53:56 PM

I'm not losing my mind or even wasting any time regarding any political nothing burgers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 03, 2023, 02:14:31 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 03, 2023, 01:46:59 PM

so...this whole Trump indictment thing....anyone want to take a stab at it without getting political?

from what I can gather it's a nothing burger from an overzealous Manhattan DA trying to make a name for himself. as the saying goes...a Manhattan DA could get grand jury could indict a ham sandwich. Wouldn't be surprised if it gets thrown out of court- and if it does go to trial I'll be shocked if he doesn't beat it.

From what I've read/understand...the case has statute of limitations issues- statute of limitations is 4 or 5 years- can't quite remember- this alleged crime took place 7 years ago. Falsifying business records is a misdemeanor in NY state and the falsification of records would have to be related to some sort of fraud or other crime committed. Sounds like this DA is trying to shoe-horn the charge into a felony by claiming the pornstar hush money payment violated federal campaign-finance law- which is a federal crime which means this NY state DA has no jurisdiction.

The feds looked at the pornstar hush money case and said there was nothing there- and decided not to charge. The feds tried to bring a different but somewhat similar case against former Senator John Edwards- and he was acquitted. They would have to prove any hush money payments were made solely for the sake of the campaign- and Trump could easily argue they were made to protect his family and marriage. John Edwards actually used campaign funds to pay off his mistress- and he successfully argued in court he paid off his mistress to save his marriage- not for the sole purpose of saving his campaign. Trump could argue the same- and Trump used his own money- not campaign funds.

BTW the FEC found in their investigations that Hillary Clinton and her campaign violated federal campaign-finance law over that whole funding of the bullshit bogus Steele dossier- and she was ordered to pay an $8,000 fine and the DNC was ordered to pay a $120,000 fine. Just sayin'.

Seems to me like everyone is losing their minds over a nothing burger here- and all this DA has done is hand the Trump campaign a gift on a silver platter for '24. His lead over DeSantis- his #1 contender for the '24 GOP primary has literally exploded since the indictment news came out.

This case was always nothing but hot air- the potential case in Georgia was far more serious and legit- and that may be in trouble now imo. When he swats this one away- it'll really look like a political persecution if another state tries to charge him. NY Dems have handed this guy a gift with this charge. He's going to get off easily and this whole thing will just make him even more popular imo.

great description of issue

my only consern is the Judge who is very left leaning

if she does her job the case will be dismissed but something inside me says that aint gonna happen

it could very well have to be appealed 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 03, 2023, 02:31:53 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 03, 2023, 01:53:56 PM

I'm not losing my mind or even wasting any time regarding any political nothing burgers

was referring to the mainstream news media....cable TV, newspapers, blogs, websites, etc... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 03, 2023, 02:32:28 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 03, 2023, 02:14:31 PM

great description of issue

my only consern is the Judge who is very left leaning

if she does her job the case will be dismissed but something inside me says that aint gonna happen

it could very well have to be appealed

the judge is a man...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 03, 2023, 02:40:59 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 03, 2023, 02:32:28 PM

the judge is a man...

I looked it up and youre right not sure where I got that it was a woman

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2023, 02:50:57 PM

Development Tour | Midtown ATL (https://www.midtownatl.com/business/development-tour)

Aerial pics lend perspective on Midtown's crazy construction boom | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/aerial-photos-midtown-development-crazy-construction-boom)

Nearly all of this is apartments, generally pricey, $3K per month for a 2 bdr is common.  And they keep starting new buildings.

(https://i.imgur.com/rhaJNZA.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2023, 03:06:32 PM

Atlanta ranked as top 5 Spring Break break destination for 2023 | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/atl-ranked-top-spring-break-break-destination-2023)

I chuckled ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 03, 2023, 03:09:28 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/jYmLlkP.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 03, 2023, 03:19:45 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 03, 2023, 02:31:53 PM

was referring to the mainstream news media....cable TV, newspapers, blogs, websites, etc...

well, that's their job

kinda

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 03, 2023, 03:51:41 PM

Ah, now I know why there was a pickup roaming the neighborhood on Saturday with two massive flags sticking out of the bed-- one USA, and the other "Let's Go Brandon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 03, 2023, 04:05:16 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 03, 2023, 01:46:59 PM

so...this whole Trump indictment thing....anyone want to take a stab at it without getting political?

Until he appears in court tomorrow and we see the charges against him, we don't know what the Manhattan DA has on him.

IMHO New York is the least of his problems. Georgia and the federales have the much stronger cases against him, and I'm surprised that they haven't beaten New York to the punch. And then we have this:

https://twitter.com/guardianogeloso/status/1642623915980619776?s=20

Ask Robert Mueller how well it turned out selling top secret material to the highest bidder.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 03, 2023, 04:26:00 PM

Oh boy...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 03, 2023, 04:33:09 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 03, 2023, 03:51:41 PM

Ah, now I know why there was a pickup roaming the neighborhood on Saturday with two massive flags sticking out of the bed-- one USA, and the other "Let's Go Brandon.

I don't put political signs up, because my parents taught me there are certain things you don't discuss publicly.  Hell, the talk where they told me they were voting for Perot (I think the Statute of Limitations has run) was more intense than the sex talk.

But, people put political signs up.  I don't get it, has it ever swayed a single voter?  But I don't really judge it, because it's a thing.  But the extent to which the pro-Trump stuff has gone, I find slightly alarming.  Not even pro party, or pro cause.  It's literally pro one shitty dude.  It's insane.  There is a house I pass on the way to daycare, which is decked out in Trump stuff.  Full roof flag, signs covering the yard.  And the house next to it, is for sale.  If you've got one sign in your yard, whatever, if I like the house next door, even if I disagree with your politics, whatever.  I couldn't move into a house next door to that.

He has made elections "me vs. not me".  The only reason Biden won was because he was "not me".  Nobody was riding for Biden.  He was just the most milquetoast option.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2023, 04:35:03 PM

I think signs for local elections may make a difference, e.g., judgeships, state reps, etc.

A political sign for Trump is basically an invitation for someone to get angry for no reason and perhaps damage your property, same with a bumper sticker of any kind.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 03, 2023, 04:46:38 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 03, 2023, 04:35:03 PM

 same with a bumper sticker of any kind.

I have always thought that.  The only thing a bumper sticker does is make me yell at your candidate when you cut me off

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 03, 2023, 05:07:24 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on April 03, 2023, 04:05:16 PM

Until he appears in court tomorrow and we see the charges against him, we don't know what the Manhattan DA has on him.

IMHO New York is the least of his problems. Georgia and the federales have the much stronger cases against him, and I'm surprised that they haven't beaten New York to the punch. And then we have this:

https://twitter.com/guardianogeloso/status/1642623915980619776?s=20

Ask Robert Mueller how well it turned out selling top secret material to the highest bidder.

this is true...we don't know the specific charges as the indictment was sealed...BUT from all the media reports/leaks....we have a general idea...and if that general idea holds true...this case amounts to nothing but a bunch of bullshit imo. we'll find out soon enough though....

RE that video.....um the US gov't paid Nixon for docs/tapes he took from the WH from his time as President....not raid his home....not sure what you're getting at talking about selling top secret material to the highest bidder. Believe Trump was referring to the US gov't doing something similar in his case....maybe negotiating a settlement....not raid his house with a swat team in a show of force like the dude was Osama Bin Laden.

Not sure the Feds have much of a case either on the classified docs thing....Presidents have the right to take materials from their time as President, and I'm sure a lot of boxes/docs get lost in translation/mixed up in the process of leaving the WH. Also...the President is declassifier in chief....he can declassify any f'n thing he wants to- he doesn't need anyone's permission to do so. And with Biden having taken classified docs from his time as VP- which is even more serious imo- as VP doesn't have sweeping powers a President has when it comes to declassifying info....going to make it hard to go after one guy and not the other without appearing to be a political persecution/hit job.

IMO the most serious thing facing Trump are any potential charges in Georgia- where he's on tape saying to a Georgia state election official- "I need you to find me 11,780 votes".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 03, 2023, 05:08:32 PM

Quote from: ELA on April 03, 2023, 04:46:38 PM

I have always thought that.  The only thing a bumper sticker does is make me yell at your candidate when you cut me off

But that's true of ANY bumper sticker, not just political ones.

For example, I always have some particularly choice words for the guy who cuts me off and has a Texas A&M sticker on his car.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2023, 05:11:33 PM

I had one back in the day that read "Honk if you passed PChem".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 03, 2023, 05:13:21 PM

I don't have bumper stickers or tattoos

I do fly a Husker flag in the state of Iowa 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 03, 2023, 05:21:10 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 03, 2023, 05:13:21 PM

I don't have bumper stickers or tattoos

I do fly a Husker flag in the state of Iowa

You're one brave mofo

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 03, 2023, 05:45:45 PM

some might say, "Fearless"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 03, 2023, 06:10:58 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 03, 2023, 05:13:21 PM

I don't have bumper stickers or tattoos

I do fly a Husker flag in the state of Iowa

Nebraska makes a new state enemy everytime there is conference realignment.  Soon you won't be able to drive in Vermont

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 03, 2023, 06:12:11 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 03, 2023, 05:08:32 PM

But that's true of ANY bumper sticker, not just political ones.

For example, I always have some particularly choice words for the guy who cuts me off and has a Texas A&M sticker on his car.

A guy with an MSU plate frame was driving 5 mph under the speed limit in the left lane a couple weeks ago, and I felt shame rather than anger

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 03, 2023, 06:16:45 PM

And I had the wrong Robert. I meant Robert Hanssen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 03, 2023, 06:31:01 PM

Quote from: ELA on April 03, 2023, 06:10:58 PM

Nebraska makes a new state enemy everytime there is conference realignment.  Soon you won't be able to drive in Vermont

Well, I'm certainly not moving to Vermont
doubt I'll even drive through there unless I'm going from Boston to Maine

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 04, 2023, 04:06:48 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 03, 2023, 06:31:01 PM

Well, I'm certainly not moving to Vermont
doubt I'll even drive through there unless I'm going from Boston to Maine

New Hampshire?


Never been to Vermont. Might drive through on my way from Boston to Montreal.


;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 04, 2023, 06:12:48 AM

Finland set to join NATO, in blow to Putin | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/ap/ap-international/finland-set-to-join-nato-in-blow-to-putin/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 04, 2023, 07:37:51 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 03, 2023, 06:31:01 PM

Well, I'm certainly not moving to Vermont
doubt I'll even drive through there unless I'm going from Boston to Maine

That would be quite the scenic route. 


(https://www.visitnewengland.com/adservimage/5064.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 04, 2023, 08:57:54 AM

oops, forgot about New Hampshire
I guess they have Dartmouth

I've heard good things about Montreal

I doubt I will make it there but ya never know
it's more likely than Venice or Jerusalem 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 04, 2023, 09:58:44 AM

The best and worst of irresistible 'best of' lists : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2023/01/08/1147762034/the-best-and-worst-of-irresistible-best-of-lists)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on April 04, 2023, 10:33:01 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 03, 2023, 11:27:07 AM

fortunately, the majority doesn't make decisions

The tryanny of the majority is to be avoided as much as the tryanny of a single person

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 04, 2023, 05:02:51 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 03, 2023, 01:46:59 PM

Seems to me like everyone is losing their minds over a nothing burger here- and all this DA has done is hand the Trump campaign a gift on a silver platter for '24. His lead over DeSantis- his #1 contender for the '24 GOP primary has literally exploded since the indictment news came out.

Are you sure that this isn't the whole point?

If you look at the fundamentals, 2024 looks like a longshot for the Dems. Biden was never all that popular to begin with and is ancient, inflation is at rates not seen since I was in diapers, and the economy appears to be headed into recession. 

Given the above, Biden would likely be WAY behind the "generic Republican". Trump, however, changes things to Biden's considerable benefit in the general election, he is less popular and older. 

What I am saying is this, if I were setting betting lines for the 2024 election:

• Biden v Trump, I think Biden is at least a push.
• Biden v DeSantis (or basically any other Republican not named Trump), I'd install the Republican as a significant favorite. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 04, 2023, 05:14:27 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on April 04, 2023, 05:02:51 PM

Are you sure that this isn't the whole point?

If you look at the fundamentals, 2024 looks like a longshot for the Dems. Biden was never all that popular to begin with and is ancient, inflation is at rates not seen since I was in diapers, and the economy appears to be headed into recession.

Given the above, Biden would likely be WAY behind the "generic Republican". Trump, however, changes things to Biden's considerable benefit in the general election, he is less popular and older.

What I am saying is this, if I were setting betting lines for the 2024 election:

• Biden v Trump, I think Biden is at least a push.
• Biden v DeSantis (or basically any other Republican not named Trump), I'd install the Republican as a significant favorite.

Interesting theory

not too sure about your push part though

the reason is that the GOP is probably going to employ ballot harvesting and other vote generating methods just like the DEMs and all will be legal

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 04, 2023, 05:31:21 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 03, 2023, 01:46:59 PM

so...this whole Trump indictment thing....anyone want to take a stab at it without getting political?

from what I can gather it's a nothing burger from an overzealous Manhattan DA trying to make a name for himself. as the saying goes...a Manhattan DA could get grand jury could indict a ham sandwich. Wouldn't be surprised if it gets thrown out of court- and if it does go to trial I'll be shocked if he doesn't beat it.

From what I've read/understand...the case has statute of limitations issues- statute of limitations is 4 or 5 years- can't quite remember- this alleged crime took place 7 years ago. Falsifying business records is a misdemeanor in NY state and the falsification of records would have to be related to some sort of fraud or other crime committed. Sounds like this DA is trying to shoe-horn the charge into a felony by claiming the pornstar hush money payment violated federal campaign-finance law- which is a federal crime which means this NY state DA has no jurisdiction.

The feds looked at the pornstar hush money case and said there was nothing there- and decided not to charge. The feds tried to bring a different but somewhat similar case against former Senator John Edwards- and he was acquitted. They would have to prove any hush money payments were made solely for the sake of the campaign- and Trump could easily argue they were made to protect his family and marriage. John Edwards actually used campaign funds to pay off his mistress- and he successfully argued in court he paid off his mistress to save his marriage- not for the sole purpose of saving his campaign. Trump could argue the same- and Trump used his own money- not campaign funds.

BTW the FEC found in their investigations that Hillary Clinton and her campaign violated federal campaign-finance law over that whole funding of the bullshit bogus Steele dossier- and she was ordered to pay an $8,000 fine and the DNC was ordered to pay a $120,000 fine. Just sayin'.

Seems to me like everyone is losing their minds over a nothing burger here- and all this DA has done is hand the Trump campaign a gift on a silver platter for '24. His lead over DeSantis- his #1 contender for the '24 GOP primary has literally exploded since the indictment news came out.

This case was always nothing but hot air- the potential case in Georgia was far more serious and legit- and that may be in trouble now imo. When he swats this one away- it'll really look like a political persecution if another state tries to charge him. NY Dems have handed this guy a gift with this charge. He's going to get off easily and this whole thing will just make him even more popular imo.

A few thoughts:
First, Biden won New York County (ie Manhattan) by 87-12 over Trump. Four years earlier Clinton carried New York County 87-10 over Trump. So Trump supporters make up roughly one in eight or ten people in the jury pool.

A randomly selected group of 12 New York County voters is probably made up of something like:

• 3-4 people who think Trump is guilty without even knowing the charge or the evidence and don't care what the charge or evidence look like.
• 3-4 people who are decidedly NOT Trump supporters but are at least somewhat open to the evidence.
• 3-4 people who are still NOT Trump supporters but respect the system enough that they aren't going to convict unless the DA actually proves his case beyond a reasonable doubt (although even here, thr definition of "reasonable" is probably impacted by the political dislike for the guy).
• 0-2 people who are Trump supporters of some variety which could be anywhere from "He's not guilty no matter what" (mirrors of the top group) to "let's see the evidence" (mirrors of group three).

This presents a massive problem for Trump's legal team. They can't use preemptive challenges to knock out political opponents because there will be too many of them. However, the DA very much can use preemptive challenges to probably eliminate at least most Trump supporters.

The case, as I understand it (through leaks and whatnot so take with a grain of salt) is very similar to the case that John Edwards beat. However, I think Trump's legal defense is better for two reasons:

• Trump used his own money (indirectly). In Edwards' case a political supporter paid off the mother of Edwards' child.
• Trump had a public persona BEFORE entering politics so he has a more plausible argument that the payoff was to protect the Trump public persona/image as opposed to the Trump campaign. Edwards didn't or at least not to the extent that Trump did so that argument was weaker when Edwards made it and it was successful for Edwards.

Brief explanation:
In both the Trump (as I understand it) and Edwards' cases a woman was paid what was effectively hush money. Neither campaign reported this as a campaign expense. That is the alleged campaign finance violation. Expenditures made on behalf OF THE CAMPAIGN must be reported.

Edwards successfully argued that the payment was to not upset his wife rather than to not derail his campaign.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 04, 2023, 05:37:54 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 04, 2023, 05:14:27 PM

Interesting theory

not too sure about your push part though

the reason is that the GOP is probably going to employ ballot harvesting and other vote generating methods just like the DEMs and all will be legal

The problem with this is that they can't. 

Well, they can, but Republican efforts are inherently less effective because Republican voters are less clustered. Democrats can go into basically any large inner city and harvest votes knowing that they are going to win around 90% of them. Republican areas tend to be suburbs that are more like 2:1 Republican. 

Thus:

• A Democratic vote "harvesting" operation that gets 30 votes gives the D's a 24 vote advantage, 27-3.
• A Republican vote "harvesting" operation that gets 30 votes gives the R's a 10 vote advantage, 20-10.

I don't think you can make that up on volume.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 04, 2023, 05:50:00 PM

the large cities are not 100% dem

the Rep dont have to get more harvesting votes just enough to lower the dem % a few points

every rep vote harvested is one more then they would have gotten

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2023, 07:13:27 AM

Operative in North Carolina congressional race arrested in ‘ballot harvesting’ case - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com) (https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-nc-election-fraud-charge-20190227-story.html)

You can get caught ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2023, 09:11:32 AM

near proof of an election tampering issue?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2023, 09:45:28 AM

Death by pterodactyl is a bigger problem than voter fraud and in the miniscule number of actual examples of it, it's almost always republicans.
.
The disparity between the time spent on this and it's actual importance is astronomical.  FFS

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2023, 09:52:00 AM

I'm pretty sure there is "voter fraud" in every election that is at least state wide.  Some of it could be "technical" violations or unintended, like taking someone's absentee ballot to drop it off when it's against the rules to do so (the person is not a relative, whatever).  Some of it is intentional, ballot harvesting, but I think that is meant to impact some local election likely to be decided by a few votes.  The logistics of setting up a major voter harvesting operation "under the radar" strikes me as nearly impossible.

But that doesn't mean some folks don't "raid" old folks homes to collect absentee ballots.  But to do this to garner 10,000 of them or more seems impracticable.

I also doubt many "illegals" vote because their main objective is to stay off the radar.  I've read some folks registered inadvertently when they are green card types or students when they get a DL because they didn't understand the rules.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2023, 10:53:40 AM

Lots of dead people have come off the voter rolls in many states around the country. PA is one of them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2023, 10:54:39 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2023, 09:45:28 AM

Death by pterodactyl is a bigger problem than voter fraud and in the miniscule number of actual examples of it, it's almost always republicans.
.
The disparity between the time spent on this and it's actual importance is astronomical.  FFS

Yeah, especially all three of those republicans in Chicago.

They give Chicago a very bad name, those 3 assholes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2023, 11:19:09 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2023, 10:53:40 AM

Lots of dead people have come off the voter rolls in many states around the country. PA is one of them.

It can take a few years, I know from experience.  The voter rolls aren't kept up to date very often, and at times a party will contest any such action.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 06, 2023, 11:28:16 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2023, 10:54:39 AM

Yeah, especially all three of those republicans in Chicago.

They give Chicago a very bad name, those 3 assholes.

yeah, don't want to get into a R vs. D thing- but I don't think it's a coincidence at all that the fastest growing states in the country are Florida, Texas, and South Carolina and the ones with the greatest population declines are New York, Illinois, and California.

Seems to me like any place that is super majority controlled by Dems turns into a literal shithole and fast. Just look at Detroit. Talk about corruption and decay. Most of the decaying, dying, shithole rat infested crime infested cities in the US are....super majority Dem controlled. Shocker. Not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2023, 11:31:46 AM

Nearly every large city is Democratically controlled for obvious reasons.  Some of them are doing pretty well overall.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 06, 2023, 01:13:09 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2023, 09:45:28 AM

The disparity between the time spent on this and it's actual importance is astronomical.  FFS

former President Donald Trump's arrest on 34 felony counts of falsifying business records

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 06, 2023, 01:59:30 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 06, 2023, 01:13:09 PM

former President Donald Trump's arrest on 34 felony counts of falsifying business records

https://youtu.be/aCP27_vquxQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 06, 2023, 02:03:25 PM

Ranked: The U.S. Banks With the Most Uninsured Deposits

1 Silicon Valley Bank* 93.8 $209
2 Bank of New York Mellon 92.0 $325
3 State Street Bank and Trust Co. 91.2 $298
4 Signature Bank* 89.3 $110
5 Northern Trust Co. 81.6 $155
6 Citibank NA 73.7 $1,767
7 CIBC Bank USA 73.1 $51
8 HSBC Bank USA NA 70.6 $162
9 City National Bank 70.3 $97
10 First Republic Bank 67.4 $213
11 East West Bank 65.8 $64
12 BMO Harris Bank NA 60.5 $177
13 Comerica Bank 60.4 $86
14 Western Alliance Bank 56.3 $68
15 Frost Bank 53.6 $53
16 Banco Popular de Puerto Rico 53.1 $56
17 MUFG Union Bank NA** 53.0 $104
18 Zions Bancorp. NA 52.2 $90
19 JPMorgan Chase Bank NA 52.0 $3,202
20 U.S. Bank NA 51.4 $585
21 Synovus Bank 50.7 $60
22 Bank of the West** 50.7 $92
23 KeyBank NA 50.0 $188
24 Fifth Third Bank NA 48.4 $206
25 Goldman Sachs Bank USA 47.6 $487
26 Citizens Bank NA 47.5 $226
27 Manufacturers and Traders Trust Co. 47.1 $200
28 First Horizon Bank 46.2 $79
29 Bank of America NA 46.1 $2,419
30 Huntington National Bank 45.6 $182

https://elements.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-the-u-s-banks-with-the-most-uninsured-deposits/ (https://elements.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-the-u-s-banks-with-the-most-uninsured-deposits/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2023, 02:09:13 PM

I'm not in any of those.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 06, 2023, 02:27:48 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2023, 02:09:13 PM

I'm not in any of those.

Same here.


I keep all my money in a big bag under the mattress.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2023, 02:40:16 PM

I'm a credit union guy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 06, 2023, 02:51:16 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 06, 2023, 02:27:48 PM

Same here.


I keep all my money in a big bag under the mattress.

Badge is neck deep in the UW NIL collective

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2023, 02:54:40 PM

Hah. Not a dime from me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 06, 2023, 03:19:51 PM

seems to me uninsured deposits does not in itself indicate risk to the depositor but rather the nature of the investments the bank makes with these funds

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 06, 2023, 03:34:50 PM

local small town bank for me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 06, 2023, 04:22:57 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 06, 2023, 03:34:50 PM

local small town bank for me

https://youtu.be/iPkJH6BT7dM

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 06, 2023, 04:47:04 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 06, 2023, 03:19:51 PM

seems to me uninsured deposits does not in itself indicate risk to the depositor but rather the nature of the investments the bank makes with these funds

The bank I work for is not on that list- and would probably make a list of banks with the highest % of the deposits insured.

To a degree you are correct.  If you give a start up tech company a $100M loan that almost certainly means enormous deposits from that same company. If you cater to consumers and small to mid sized borrowers- the size of any one person or business deposits will be smaller, and therefore more likely under the insured umbrella.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 06, 2023, 05:48:39 PM

I've been using my work computer as my home system for a couple of years now, but I've been wanting to get something new for a while.  Meanwhile my i s c & a aggie wife's Aggie dad is finally replacing his 10-year-old system, so I used my work discount and got him something much more modern.

And that got me looking at new systems for me.

So 24 hours later, I am now the proud owner of a brand spanking new Dell XPS 15, which will arrive at my home no later than Monday.  I only buy myself a new system every now and then, so I went ahead and spec'd it out pretty well.  It has a Gen13/Raptor-Lake i9 CPU, 32G RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 8G DDR6, 1 TB SSD.  It'll be a decent gaming system so my son is going to want to steal it from me, and I'm sure I'll let him use it some, but really it's for me to use for video editing plus all the basic run-the-household stuff like finances, calendars, email, etc.

Anyway, I'm a big nerd so I get excited about Tech stuff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 06, 2023, 06:15:18 PM

The Dell xps15 is a very good machine

The only reason I didnt go with it is no numeric key pad which to anyone else is no big deal but it is for me

Im sure you will be very happy with it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 06, 2023, 06:19:01 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 06, 2023, 06:15:18 PM

The Dell xps15 is a very good machine

The only reason I didnt go with it is no numeric key pad which to anyone else is no big deal but it is for me

Im sure you will be very happy with it

Yeah as I recall the Precision Workstation is the only keyboard that suits your needs.

I also looked at a really nicely spec'd out Alienware gaming laptop for about the same price, and it would also serve nicely.  Main reason I didn't pull the trigger is that if I bought an Alienware laptop I'm pretty sure my son would abscond with it and never give it back, and also, while the Alienware is very cool, the XPS is just a beautifully crafted piece of machinery.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 06, 2023, 06:22:41 PM

As much of a tech nerd as I am, I actually don't really lust over buying it much. The only real gaming I do is Words With Friends. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 06, 2023, 06:27:02 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 06, 2023, 06:22:41 PM

As much of a tech nerd as I am, I actually don't really lust over buying it much. The only real gaming I do is Words With Friends.

Oh man, I haven't done any real gaming since college.  At the time, the original Doom was my jam.

I'm most excited about setting up for some video editing, I haven't really been able to do much of that since my old Apple Macbook crapped out.  But these days the software for PCs is fairly close to what Apple can do.

My son, on the other hand, would game 24/7 if I let him.  He has an Alienware Aurora desktop system of his own, he doesn't really NEED the use of a gaming laptop, he just likes the idea of being able to lie around on the couch and game, at the same time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 06, 2023, 06:31:19 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 06, 2023, 06:27:02 PM

My son, on the other hand, would game 24/7 if I let him.  He has an Alienware Aurora desktop system of his own, he doesn't really NEED the use of a gaming laptop, he just likes the idea of being able to lie around on the couch and game, at the same time.

You should send him to some of our northern friends and put him to work shoveling snow. Sounds like he needs to "build some character" :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 06, 2023, 09:12:39 PM

Chicago’s richest resident is moving to the Sunshine State, and he’s taking his money – and his company – with him.

Ken Griffin, a hedge fund manager worth almost $29 billion, has already moved himself and his family to Florida. And recently, he released a memo to employees that his $22 billion firm, Citadel Securities, would also move its headquarters there.

While the trend of companies moving from high-tax states like California, Illinois, and New York to lower-tax, business-friendly states like Texas and Florida is nothing new, one factor in the decision is potentially concerning for the future of Chicago’s business climate.

Crime a Factor in Citadel’s Move Out of Chicago
Citadel officials cited crime as one critical reason for the move. According to a report, over the last few years, there have been multiple incidents involving Citadel employees. Ken Griffin himself experienced an attempted carjacking, a Citadel employee was stabbed while walking to work, and there have been numerous reports of shootings, riots, and looting near some employees’ homes.

Ken Griffin has been outspoken about how crime has affected his employees. In a recent interview, he said, “if people aren’t safe here, they’re not going to live here. I’ve had multiple colleagues mugged at gunpoint. I’ve had a colleague stabbed on the way to work, countless issues of burglary. I mean, that’s a really difficult backdrop with which to draw talent to your city from.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on April 07, 2023, 07:56:07 AM

I've been helping out with my son's high school robotics team this year.  I'm in Pittsburgh today for the regional competition.

If anyone is interested in watching matches today...

Team 4085 Reynoldsburg Technical Difficulties

Match 4, 9:24am (blue)
Match 9, 10:04am (red)
Match 24, 1:04pm (blue)
Match 30, 1:52pm (blue)
Match 38, 2:56pm (red)
Match 43, 3:46pm (red)
Times are "relative".  Could be +/- 10 or 15 minutes.

https://www.twitch.tv/firstinspires7

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 07, 2023, 07:56:40 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 06, 2023, 06:19:01 PM

Yeah as I recall the Precision Workstation is the only keyboard that suits your needs.

I also looked at a really nicely spec'd out Alienware gaming laptop for about the same price, and it would also serve nicely.  Main reason I didn't pull the trigger is that if I bought an Alienware laptop I'm pretty sure my son would abscond with it and never give it back, and also, while the Alienware is very cool, the XPS is just a beautifully crafted piece of machinery. 

I have a Precision 5570 (built for AutoCad and other models) with no number keypad. Of course, I have a docking station, so a regular keyboard, ethernet, two large monitors. I really only miss the keyboard when I travel for leisure. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 07, 2023, 07:58:04 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 06, 2023, 06:31:19 PM

You should send him to some of our northern friends and put him to work shoveling snow. Sounds like he needs to "build some character" :57:

The way it was snowing out there put him to work a the resorts there,Thank You for your support

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 07, 2023, 07:58:21 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 06, 2023, 09:12:39 PM

Chicago’s richest resident is moving to the Sunshine State, and he’s taking his money – and his company – with him.

Chicago is done. Put a fork in it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 07, 2023, 08:46:17 AM

Wut?

(https://i.imgur.com/g7xouwh.png)

Putin's Popularity Reaches Record High in the U.S.—Poll (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-s-popularity-reaches-record-high-in-the-u-s-poll/ar-AA19y4kj?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=03e7226c28764b4ba27982c9dcb6746a&ei=13)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2023, 09:18:10 AM

NASA’s James Webb space telescope captures new view of Uranus (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/homenews/3938881-stunning-james-webb-telescope-provides-new-view-of-uranus/)

(Cue jokes...)

(https://i.imgur.com/GxMZ8YW.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2023, 01:27:47 PM

We drive through this tunnel a few times a month, probably will again today, I've never found it to be problematic.

(https://i.imgur.com/kzirJKQ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2023, 01:29:16 PM

Anybody recognize this location?



(https://i.imgur.com/wsVD9io.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2023, 01:45:55 PM

Analysis: In Atlanta, millennial homeownership has exploded | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/millennial-homeownership-explodes-metro-atl-study-finds)

Metro Atlanta saw its number of millennial homeowners more than double in the past five years—while it logged one of the sharpest drops in millennial renters of all U.S. cities.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 07, 2023, 03:12:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 07, 2023, 01:45:55 PM

Analysis: In Atlanta, millennial homeownership has exploded | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/millennial-homeownership-explodes-metro-atl-study-finds)

Metro Atlanta saw its number of millennial homeowners more than double in the past five years—while it logged one of the sharpest drops in millennial renters of all U.S. cities.

So people between 42 and 25 are buying more homes, huh?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 07, 2023, 03:30:14 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 07, 2023, 01:29:16 PM

Anybody recognize this location?



(https://i.imgur.com/wsVD9io.jpg)

downtown Vegas?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2023, 03:44:02 PM

That might be a guess I would have suggested, but it's not.  It's probably not guessable unless you've been there recently.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2023, 04:27:16 PM

This is a block away from us, they have completely (almost) stripped this building to its frame.  I'm hoping the soon start to put it back together.  Or implode it.

(https://i.imgur.com/SGYQ0QP.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2023, 04:33:13 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/xHFMpcV.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 07, 2023, 04:42:46 PM

fun

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 07, 2023, 11:00:04 PM

Swapped batteries in the golf cart this week. 

Everything I need to live is within maybe a three mile radius of me, and still allows me to reside in basically a typical suburban neighborhood.  I really like where I live.  Lowes foods and lowes home improvement are side by side and less than a mile away... several fast foods and a decent steakhouse/bar all with golf cart distance.  And it's legal here to use them on the road. 

So I use it a lot.  I bet I put twice the miles on the cart than I do the truck anymore, and that's even considering when I go through the trouble of firing up the truck its usually at least 50 miles I have in mind for it. 

Anyway....

I swapped over to LiFePo4 batteries... lithium iron phosphate... its just a little 36v cart and with enough mods to make it relatively quick- 24mph top end- and without hills here on the coast it suffices nicely.  I can get around 15-20 miles on a charge using 6 6vdc Trojan flooded lead acid batteries, and they take 10 or so hours to recharge from 60% to ~90%... they weigh 90 pound each. 

The three 105ah 12vdc LiFePo4 batteries, all together, weigh just under 60lbs....

My dang cart lost some weight, yo! And, there is enough room for a medium size cooler under the seat now. I dont know that it's faster, but it takes off like a raped ape... and it charges to full in less than four hours FROM 0% charge.  That's nuts to me.  They can be discharged all the way down to 0, but it's recommended they don't go below 10% as their monitored/managed built control system may try to let too much charge past at once and trigger the circuit protection...

The Trojans, replaced with new like them, would have cost $900.. and the best they'd last is 4 years... 3, more likely and commonly.  These LiFePo4 batteries are rated for 10 years.  Yeah, I wouldn't spend that much on a toy every three years either, nor the $1200 I dropped on these- but I use that cart a LOT. 

If any of yall have a golf cart, I highly recommend making that swap.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 07, 2023, 11:07:30 PM

it was always one of my retirement goals was to live close enough to the club house to just drive there in my golf cart

thats one goal I havent achieved yet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 07, 2023, 11:20:51 PM

There are two courses within cart range, but I refuse to golf... or duck hunt... I know me and I knkw when I get into something I get really into it- and either of those habits would cost me $100k a year.  I dont have that kind of cheese to throw around.  .... but I'd try... and end up eating Mac and cheese every night.  

The tourist season is about to kick off.  That's why I get such amenities that are peaceful and serene- until the terrorist er uh tourists show up.  ... its a small price to pay, actually. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 08, 2023, 01:54:50 AM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 07, 2023, 11:00:04 PM

Swapped batteries in the golf cart this week. 

Everything I need to live is within maybe a three mile radius of me, and still allows me to reside in basically a typical suburban neighborhood.  I really like where I live.  Lowes foods and lowes home improvement are side by side and less than a mile away... several fast foods and a decent steakhouse/bar all with golf cart distance.  And it's legal here to use them on the road. 

So I use it a lot.  I bet I put twice the miles on the cart than I do the truck anymore, and that's even considering when I go through the trouble of firing up the truck its usually at least 50 miles I have in mind for it. 

Anyway....

I swapped over to LiFePo4 batteries... lithium iron phosphate... its just a little 36v cart and with enough mods to make it relatively quick- 24mph top end- and without hills here on the coast it suffices nicely.  I can get around 15-20 miles on a charge using 6 6vdc Trojan flooded lead acid batteries, and they take 10 or so hours to recharge from 60% to ~90%... they weigh 90 pound each. 

The three 105ah 12vdc LiFePo4 batteries, all together, weigh just under 60lbs....

My dang cart lost some weight, yo! And, there is enough room for a medium size cooler under the seat now. I dont know that it's faster, but it takes off like a raped ape... and it charges to full in less than four hours FROM 0% charge.  That's nuts to me.  They can be discharged all the way down to 0, but it's recommended they don't go below 10% as their monitored/managed built control system may try to let too much charge past at once and trigger the circuit protection...

The Trojans, replaced with new like them, would have cost $900.. and the best they'd last is 4 years... 3, more likely and commonly.  These LiFePo4 batteries are rated for 10 years.  Yeah, I wouldn't spend that much on a toy every three years either, nor the $1200 I dropped on these- but I use that cart a LOT. 

If any of yall have a golf cart, I highly recommend making that swap.

So you're basically leading the EV charge (no pun intended)???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 08, 2023, 06:34:35 AM

I was thinking about how each game is a snapshot and then considering the immediate future following a game...and 2002 Florida vs Miami sprang to mind. 
The Canes were fresh off their great 2001 NC season and ranked #1 visiting #6 Florida.  The game was close in the first half, but Miami broke it open and won big. 
But think about the next few years....Miami gets back to the NC game and loses to tOSU and then has a 2-loss then 3-loss season while joining the ACC and is mediocre as they let go of their HC.  By 2006, they're irrelevant.
Florida was coming off a great 2001 season as well, but Spurrier had left.  Zook wasn't up to the job and his mediocrity in '02-'04 led to Florida hiring Urban Meyer.  As Miami descended, Florida eventually ascended, winning the 2006 NC, largely with Zook's players.
.
It's just interesting how volatile even the very near-future is.  A team can lose by 40 to someone, but they beat that same team the following season.  It's just crazy.
.
Oh, and literally as I was about to move on from the game video, they had a quick shot of me following a Florida FG.  No face paint this game, but I was still in high spirits.  The Canes would outscore us 35-3 from this point on.
.
(https://i.imgur.com/gzv8g4n.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2023, 06:57:56 AM

my father bought me a 2002 Yamaha gas cart in 2004.  A congrats on your divorce gift (I think)

I've spent about $1000 on maintenance in nearly 20 seasons

and it's probably worth more than the $3200 he paid for it back then

it is till my retirement goal to live close enough to the club house to just drive there in my golf cart

thats one goal I havent achieved yet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 08, 2023, 07:01:48 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/LdDSj2x.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2023, 07:07:03 AM

I certainly hope none were damaged by the storm

be rough on their insurance companies

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 08, 2023, 07:14:24 AM

How to spot IRS imposter scams as Tax Day approaches : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2023/04/07/1168353969/irs-scam-tax-day-imposter-how-to-avoid)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 08, 2023, 08:29:41 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 07, 2023, 03:12:57 PM

So people between 42 and 25 are buying more homes, huh?

Not today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 08, 2023, 08:37:41 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 08, 2023, 08:29:41 AM

Not today.

They are around here apparently.  The young crowd is renting and then later buying something, or so he data indicate.  It makes sense, it's just the numbers are a bit impressive, to me.  Nearly everything new going up around me is apartments, not condos, but this area is very young and hip (except for me) and not indicative of the metro area at all.

I think the single family market here has cooled, interest rates etc., but it's still hot.  The condo market is more "warm".  Nothing in our building stays on the market long at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 08, 2023, 09:04:33 AM

Market is still pretty hot here. Most people are paying cash.

It isn't 2022 anymore. 

"That’s according to a new analysis (https://www.rentcafe.com/blog/rental-market/market-snapshots/millennials-switch-renter-to-owner-majority/) by apartment search database RentCafe, which finds that 52 percent of U.S. millennials—the largest generation in the nation—now own a home, having transitioned from renter to owner-majority in 2022."

(https://i.imgur.com/7KExZox.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 08, 2023, 10:04:37 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 08, 2023, 08:29:41 AM

Not today.

This is a way to just say that interest rates are high right now?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 08, 2023, 10:16:40 AM

I applied for a loan on a new condo in 1981 and the lowest rate I could find, 30 year fixed, was 17.5% ....

The developer eventually got me one for 12.5% 3 year ARM and also gave me a $7500 two year no interest loan.  And I got a deal on the condo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 08, 2023, 10:22:26 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 08, 2023, 07:01:48 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/LdDSj2x.png)

...and that is a dinky-ass airport.  Used it many times.  My dad lives just south of it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 08, 2023, 10:30:09 AM

Augusta is not a large city, so a small airport is to be expected.  My guess is they have some extra ramp space because of the Masters.

UGA Medical school shuts down during the Masters.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 08, 2023, 11:46:06 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 08, 2023, 10:04:37 AM

This is a way to just say that interest rates are high right now?

Yep.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 08, 2023, 12:10:14 PM

My wife wants to go to Cincy in May, so I check airline prices, expecting to see something like $230-250.  Nope, $100 over that and then some.  It's about a 7 hour drive, not spending $700+ to avoid that and then pay for a rental car to boot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 08, 2023, 12:33:12 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 08, 2023, 12:10:14 PM

My wife wants to go to Cincy in May, so I check airline prices, expecting to see something like $230-250.  Nope, $100 over that and then some.  It's about a 7 hour drive, not spending $700+ to avoid that and then pay for a rental car to boot.

That drive is nice from Knoxville to Lexington. Some nice bites to grab in both spots.

(Haven't driven that part of North Ga or Tennessee, but I've heard good things about the former)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 08, 2023, 01:41:25 PM

I’ve driven it many many times.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 08, 2023, 02:00:38 PM

Maybe the prettiest highway drive I've done is from Knoxville into NC.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2023, 02:27:41 PM

I'd drive it again 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 09, 2023, 08:17:46 AM

If we're limited to freeway driving, I-26 north out of Asheville takes the cake for me in the east.  Of course out west there are many options.

One of the most boring is I-75 south of Macon.  At least it's six lanes.

I-75 at the TN/KY state line (in TN actually) is interesting.  It's one of the last segments finished and goes up, runs along a ridge at about 2,000 feet, then comes down (with a bit of a dip in the middle as it crosses to a second ridge).  The WV Turnpike is nice in spots, as is the PA pike.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2023, 08:19:45 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 09, 2023, 08:17:46 AM

If we're limited to freeway driving, I-26 north out of Asheville takes the cake for me in the east.  Of course out west there are many options.

One of the most boring is I-75 south of Macon.  At least it's six lanes.

I-75 at the TN/KY state line (in TN actually) is interesting.  It's one of the last segments finished and goes up, runs along a ridge at about 2,000 feet, then comes down (with a bit of a dip in the middle as it crosses to a second ridge).  The WV Turnpike is nice in spots, as is the PA pike.

The drive from Chicago to here/back is really bad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 09, 2023, 08:22:39 AM

My stepson drove us back from Orlando to ATL last year.  He has a heavy foot.  We averaged 97 mph (aside from one stop).  He's a good driver fortunately.  But we didn't get passed except once.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 09, 2023, 09:26:04 AM

I drove quite fast back in the day

too expensive these days

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 09, 2023, 09:33:38 AM

When speed limits were 55 mph on Interstates, I had a CB, which mostly worked.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 09, 2023, 09:40:18 AM

me too

mostly is the correct term

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 09, 2023, 09:41:39 AM

I agree on Illinois the long way being a boring drive. 

29 in North Dakota (and 94 between Rothsay, MN and western Jamestown), between Fargo and the Canadian border post at Pembina, feels like you can get out and walk faster even if going 80+.

65 between the Chicago burbs and Indianapolis is not only flat and boring but only 2 lanes and in terrible shape. Clearly none of the money from the toll road sale went there. 

For non freeway driving, the winner has to be the provincial roads of rural Saskatchewan between Regina and the coal country of Estevan/ North Portal. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 09, 2023, 09:48:27 AM

I would like to drive around Banff in the Canadian Rockies.

The unforgettable road to Sonora Pass in California (dangerousroads.org) (https://www.dangerousroads.org/north-america/usa/3951-sonora-pass.html)

I mentioned this one before, 26% grades, it's very weird.

(https://i.imgur.com/BBotNDQ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2023, 10:18:05 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on April 09, 2023, 09:41:39 AM

I agree on Illinois the long way being a boring drive.

29 in North Dakota (and 94 between Rothsay, MN and western Jamestown), between Fargo and the Canadian border post at Pembina, feels like you can get out and walk faster even if going 80+.

65 between the Chicago burbs and Indianapolis is not only flat and boring but only 2 lanes and in terrible shape. Clearly none of the money from the toll road sale went there.

For non freeway driving, the winner has to be the provincial roads of rural Saskatchewan between Regina and the coal country of Estevan/ North Portal.

For us we would take 75 North, then 24, then 55 to 355. Terribly boring drive except for small stretches in GA, TN and KY. Feels like a week of driving.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 09, 2023, 10:31:43 AM

I think I-75 in north Georgia is reasonably pretty and varied, and you retrace Sherman's march through much of that.  I-16 is pretty horrible also, it seems to take forever.

But for scenery, the West is tough to beat.  The Cherohala Parkway is like the Blue Ridge Parkway but has a lot of bikes on it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2023, 10:40:33 AM

When we went up last year for a month, we flew and rented a car. 

It was about the same cost as driving (gas was up) and using hotels along the way. We do three days.

Car was $250/week and flights were free.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 09, 2023, 10:57:36 AM

"Free".  

The price of car rentals seems to be way up when I've looked.  But from south FL to Chicago, I'd fly.

We can get to the airport here on the subway, which helps a bit, if we're not loaded with luggage.  A subway ride is $0.70 for us because we're old.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2023, 10:59:13 AM

My company has a deal with Enterprise. It's pretty damn good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 09, 2023, 11:00:00 AM

Worst stretches of highway:
Albuquerque to Amarillo......a whole bunch of nothingggggggg...no mountains, no cool desert, no foliage, no nothing.  Hell, all the way to OKC sucks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 09, 2023, 11:03:46 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2023, 10:59:13 AM

My company has a deal with Enterprise. It's pretty damn good.

My son's old company had a deal with them too, it was better, and I could use it.  But prices seem way up even so.  (They included collision in the deal.)

I like Enterprise overall.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2023, 11:09:28 AM

I have to go up for meetings in a few weeks. Rented a Chevy SUV for $49/day - out the door.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 09, 2023, 11:14:23 AM

Knoxville to asheville... huh.. funny tale: 

a buddy of mine with far too much disposable income has a fascination with the vw group of cars... he just got rid of an audi A8 and is picking up a brand new one this week..... or maybe it's just new to him... either way.. he went through a spell of the golfr's for a bit.  he had two- one a year prior to the other, and both of them were heavily modified.. one was around 600hp which was NUTS in that roller skate of a car, and the newer one was just under 500 iirc... the newer one had lane assist... the older one didn't. 

he drives from coastal nc to Mississippi twice a year for an exercise where he runs a portion of it and is support on the rest.  it's a MARSOC thing.  

he called me as he knows i keep strange hours to stay awake on that trip.. he called after clearing that section of highway one night... he was driving the vw with lane assist.  he said "the car is trying to kill me".  

he was trying to run that section of twists and turns at break neck speeds- late entry, early apex, all of that jazz... and three digits on the speedo- and the car was fighting him the entire time... the kinda funny part was he thought he could anticipate what it was going to do so he would compensate- and then it (the freaking car) would decide to do something else or refrain from doing what it was doing prior... he said he ended up slowing to around 50mph just so he could control the thing... he knows how to drive there is no doubt- but he dang sure didn't know how to drive a car that tries to drive itself. 

he got rid of that car as soon as he got back home.  

i've ridden the tail of the dragon with him in a golf r, and it is fun to say the least... he wouldn't let me drive it, though.  i'll say this- he left me as if i was sitting still in that thing in deals gap when i was trying to give chase on an ST1300... that bike isn't known for being fast, but it should have been able to hold up with a car...  it wasn't.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 09, 2023, 11:21:11 AM

Usually, you can turn off thhe nannies that try and control the car.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on April 09, 2023, 11:27:27 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 09, 2023, 11:21:11 AM

Usually, you can turn off thhe nannies that try and control the car.

that car was so new the programming hadn't been hacked yet.  the engine control was a carry-over with such things as pulse width and timing, allowing addition of massive turbo's to be dialed in, but the drivetrain had it's own control box... that hadn't been cracked yet.. the older one had it too, but it was turned off via tune.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 09, 2023, 11:38:09 AM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on April 09, 2023, 11:14:23 AM

Knoxville to asheville... huh.. funny tale:


 he left me as if i was sitting still in that thing in deals gap when i was trying to give chase on an ST1300... that bike isn't known for being fast, but it should have been able to hold up with a car...  it wasn't. 

more tires in contact with the road help in the corners
bikes are usually better with acceleration and braking because of weight to HP ratios
but, if he's at 500hp in a Golf.........

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 09, 2023, 11:38:51 AM

By turning them off, I don't mean hacking them, I mean choosing a setting.  My GTI has the lane control thing but I turn it off.  And as one goes through various settings like ECON COMFORT NORMAL SPORT TRACK, one is gradually shutting off the nannies.  Some cars have a TRACK 2 setting which kills everything.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on April 09, 2023, 12:04:33 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 09, 2023, 11:00:00 AM

Worst stretches of highway:
Albuquerque to Amarillo......a whole bunch of nothingggggggg...no mountains, no cool desert, no foliage, no nothing.  Hell, all the way to OKC sucks.

that's up there.
I still think   Northern Nevada  is incredibly tough to handle.  and then the grand prize,  west of Casper, WY to Shoshoni, WY is the most desolate stretch in the U.S.   Its like driving on the moon for about 80 miles...

The stretch of I-88  Rockford, IL to the state line of Iowa is latest of the flat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 09, 2023, 12:10:21 PM

U.S. Route 50 is a transcontinental highway in the United States, stretching from the Sacramento region (https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Sacramento_Valley) of California (https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/California) in the west to Ocean City (https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Ocean_City_(Maryland)) of Maryland (https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Maryland) in the east. The Nevada portion, which goes through the center of the state, was named The Loneliest Road in America by Life magazine in July 1986. While the name was intended as a pejorative, Nevada officials seized it as a marketing slogan, and U.S. 50 became a challenge for tourists of who could "survive the highway".
Due to the fact that the little rain that falls does not drain to any ocean, the region of the United States (https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/United_States_of_America) that the Loneliest Road travels through is referred to as the Great Basin (https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Great_Basin).
U.S. 50 goes through the petroglyphs, alpine forests, desert valleys, ghost towns, and Great Basin National Park (https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Great_Basin_National_Park) before splitting near the Nevada-Utah border. This itinerary covers the route from Fernley, Nevada (https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Fernley), to Delta, Utah (https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Delta_(Utah)).



(https://i.imgur.com/lY9se1p.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on April 09, 2023, 12:21:19 PM

https://twitter.com/JWMediaDC/status/1644681130614857728?t=zrD-wl_xLks-SX6Od6N3Hw&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2023, 12:31:53 PM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on April 09, 2023, 12:21:19 PM

https://twitter.com/JWMediaDC/status/1644681130614857728?t=zrD-wl_xLks-SX6Od6N3Hw&s=19

Yep, I had heard that last summer. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 09, 2023, 12:34:49 PM

The end result in CFB "could be" a massive conference of P5 teams and some G5s split into "divisions" of say 10 teams which really are mostly the historical conferences.

The good part is it would reflect a step back in a sense and teams would play 9 divisional games a year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 09, 2023, 03:10:03 PM

Adding Utah doesn't make much sense.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 09, 2023, 07:06:42 PM

I was watching the end of the 88 Sugar Bowl, where undefeated Syracuse tied Auburn.  
Auburn was driving at the end of the game at about the 17 yard line or so and chose to kick the FG.  
Greise was very critical, saying they should go for the win.  
At first I assumed their passing game was garbage and that's why they didn't want to try that, but actually, the QB was pretty good that year.  
I found it stupid that Greise tried to support his opinion by saying it's a meaningless game.....uhh, you just spent the last 3 hours announcing it and diagnosing every play and decision.  It was #4 vs #6.  
.
Anywho, what would you do?  Go for the win in the "meaningless" game or go for the tie, where you A) don't lose, and B) wreck your opponent's unblemished record.
I think from that far out, I'd kick it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 09, 2023, 08:18:54 PM

so, one play from the 17 ?

Less than 10 seconds?

yup, gotta have a big time pass play that you feel has a better than 50% chance of success

not many run plays have a better than average chance from 17 yards out

Well, maybe the fumblerooski

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 09, 2023, 11:42:38 PM

I'd order up one shot at the end zone to run 7 or 8 of those seconds off so that if it doesn't work the FG attempt is the last play of the game. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 09, 2023, 11:43:09 PM

And to exemplify how Minnesota sports have been the last 24 hours

https://twitter.com/GopherHole/status/1645248180391649281?t=NKFUQZ1iNr-4tOItUafEKA&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 09, 2023, 11:53:53 PM

My in laws are heavy golf fans. Every Sunday, that isn't a Steelers Sunday, is a golf Sunday.  We have never been more unified than rooting against Koepka today

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 10, 2023, 12:16:04 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on April 09, 2023, 11:42:38 PM

I'd order up one shot at the end zone to run 7 or 8 of those seconds off so that if it doesn't work the FG attempt is the last play of the game.

There were only 4 seconds on the clock.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 10, 2023, 08:04:15 AM

Quote from: ELA on April 09, 2023, 11:53:53 PM

My in laws are heavy golf fans. Every Sunday, that isn't a Steelers Sunday, is a golf Sunday.  We have never been more unified than rooting against Koepka today

?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 10, 2023, 09:04:59 AM

LIV golf and just Koepka

Brooks is a dick

I was rooting for him, just to bother and annoy so many fans and the establishment

I was also rooting for Lefty (LIV) and against Tiger and Rory - that seemed to work

I wasn't watching, was too busy playing my own round of golf

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 10, 2023, 09:33:35 AM

Quote from: ELA on April 09, 2023, 11:53:53 PM

My in laws are heavy golf fans. Every Sunday, that isn't a Steelers Sunday, is a golf Sunday.  We have never been more unified than rooting against Koepka today

Why what's wrong with him? Did he leave somebody at the alter or steal some Squeeler fans pierogi and Iron City Beer?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 10, 2023, 09:43:30 AM

many of the golfers that have taken the bloody LIV money have had some history of disgruntlement with the PGA

Brooks and Phil for sure

Most American fans wouldn't usually be rooting for Rahm, but he was the lesser of two evils with Brooks

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 10, 2023, 09:58:58 AM

I blame the PGA more than I do some guys who wanted out of it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 10, 2023, 10:03:13 AM

the PGA got what they deserved

their actions since losing those players says everything

now paying much larger purses and treating players better

it's just unfortunate it had to come to this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 10, 2023, 11:15:08 AM

This is funny.

Due To Inflation, Easter Bunny Forced To Hide Ramen Noodles In Yard | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/due-to-inflation-easter-bunny-forced-to-hide-ramen-noodles-in-yard?utm_source=The Babylon Bee)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 10, 2023, 01:22:19 PM

I don't think Brooks left due to being disgruntled with the PGAT. I think he left because he was worried he'd never be healthy enough to compete like in his prime again, and they dangled a gigantic amount of guaranteed cash in his face. So he took it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on April 10, 2023, 01:25:52 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 09, 2023, 11:00:00 AM

Worst stretches of highway:
Albuquerque to Amarillo......a whole bunch of nothingggggggg...no mountains, no cool desert, no foliage, no nothing.  Hell, all the way to OKC sucks.

Weirdly enough I-40 running from Eastern NM into Albuquerque is one of my favorite stretches on the American interstate system, but I wouldn't try to make fans of anybody else but myself.

Granted I'm usually arriving from the Kansas/Oklahoma panhandle direction on Highway 54 through Guymon OK/Stratford TX/Dalhart TX to Logan NM/Tucumcari NM along I-40. But that few hour stretch from Oklahoma's panhandle into NM makes for a lively entrance into what always feels like the first sense of the American West starting at Tucumcari NM. Before NM, the panhandle towns are as Texas as you can imagine, too dusty for much vegetation, high school district football championship years painted on the water towers, Marty Robbins still airing on the country stations, and the main streets smelling like cattle from the many livestock trailers passing through from the surrounding stockyards. And the stockyards themselves, though a sad sight at times, are patrolled by actual cowboys on horseback - blue jeans, cowboy hats, lassos, the whole look.

Crossing the state border into NM the brush lands really pick up, the desert is high enough for light snowfall, and nearing Tucumcari two rugged, uniquely Western sights emerge: 1. Canadian River Railroad Bridge Logan NM (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Canadian_River_Railroad_Bridge_Logan_New_Mexico_2010.jpg) & 2. Tucumcari Mountain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tucumcari_Mountain), I-40s easternmost Mesa (first Mesa witnessed going West).

The interstate town of Tucumcari itself still boasts the colorful motels of its Route 66 yesteryears, where many old Westerns were filmed. And beyond Tucumcari begins the true West as far as the eye can see, the horizon extending from ten or twelve miles away to thirty or forty.

A few pictures from my time passing through:

A remote Catholic Church in Nara Visa NM about a mile from border of Texas panhandle:

(https://i.imgur.com/xEomZm0.png)

Classic Route 66 hotels along Highway 54 through Tucumcari:

(https://i.imgur.com/ekiLe5x.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 10, 2023, 01:27:06 PM

well, none of them left solely because of their feelings regarding the PGA.

$$$$

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 10, 2023, 01:30:43 PM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on April 10, 2023, 01:25:52 PM

Weirdly enough I-40 running from Eastern NM into Albuquerque is one of my favorite stretches on the American interstate system, but I wouldn't try to make fans of anybody else but myself.

Granted I'm usually arriving from the Kansas/Oklahoma panhandle direction on Highway 54 through Guymon OK/Stratford TX/Dalhart TX to Logan NM/Tucumcari NM along I-40. But that few hour stretch from Oklahoma's panhandle into NM makes for a lively entrance into what always feels like the first sense of the American West starting at Tucumcari NM. Before NM, the panhandle towns are as Texas as you can imagine, too dusty for much vegetation, high school district football championship years painted on the water towers, Marty Robbins still airing on the country stations, and the main streets smelling like cattle from the many livestock trailers passing through from the surrounding stockyards. And the stockyards themselves, though a sad sight at times, are patrolled by actual cowboys on horseback - blue jeans, cowboy hats, lassos, the whole look.

Crossing the state border into NM the brush lands really pick up, the desert is high enough for light snowfall, and nearing Tucumcari two rugged, uniquely Western sights emerge: 1. Canadian River Railroad Bridge Logan NM (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Canadian_River_Railroad_Bridge_Logan_New_Mexico_2010.jpg) & 2. Tucumcari Mountain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tucumcari_Mountain), I-40s easternmost Mesa (first Mesa witnessed going West).

The interstate town of Tucumcari itself still boasts the colorful motels of its Route 66 yesteryears, where many old Westerns were filmed. And beyond Tucumcari begins the true West as far as the eye can see, the horizon extending from ten or twelve miles away to thirty or forty.

A few pictures from my time passing through:

A remote Catholic Church in Nara Visa NM about a mile from border of Texas panhandle:

(https://i.imgur.com/xEomZm0.png)

Classic Route 66 hotels along Highway 54 through Tucumcari:

(https://i.imgur.com/ekiLe5x.png)

Right, so entering all that makes it decent.  Leaving it...not so much.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 10, 2023, 01:42:27 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 10, 2023, 01:27:06 PM

well, none of them left solely because of their feelings regarding the PGA.

$$$$

Absolutely true. Even the ones with grudges against the PGA wouldn't have left without the big bags of money. 

Just saying that I don't think Brooks had a grudge. Phil, definitely, had a grudge. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 10, 2023, 02:06:39 PM

What was Phil's grudge?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 10, 2023, 02:33:31 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 10, 2023, 02:06:39 PM

What was Phil's grudge?

He was eyeballs deep in gambling debt.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 10, 2023, 02:48:26 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 10, 2023, 02:06:39 PM

What was Phil's grudge?

He's been pushing for a long time that the PGAT should cater more to the star players and less to the hoi polloi journeymen/grinders on the tour. More exclusivity with big money events for the players that "move the needle". 

Quote from: GopherRock on April 10, 2023, 02:33:31 PM

He was eyeballs deep in gambling debt.

Hence his appetite for ever-more star treatment (i.e. $$$$) from the Tour since he was one of those stars that would benefit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 10, 2023, 02:52:41 PM

He looks really skinny.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 10, 2023, 02:54:10 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 09, 2023, 07:06:42 PM

I think from that far out, I'd kick it.

I agree. My only reservation is that if you had time for two plays my answer would be different but that was already addressed upthread and it sounds like they didn't. 

If you DID have time for two plays my answer wouldn't necessarily be throw for the EZ then kick. It would depend on timeouts and how much time. I might try to get close with my first play, then go for it on the final play from closer.

The problem from that far out is that even for the best passing offenses a 17 yard shot at a TD that the defense knows is coming is a fairly low percentage play.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 10, 2023, 02:55:56 PM

Koepka, Dustin Johnson, Mickelson, Sergio Garcia, Bryson DeChambeau, Patrick Reed, Lee Westwood and Ian Poulter

Most have had a beef or two with the PGA in the past.

_____________________________________________

Brooks, 
“A lot of guys I see on a daily basis around Jupiter still play on the PGA Tour. I have nothing against them. I have nothing against Jay. It’s just competition, right? We are just trying to put up the best model we can, the best golf and then it’s up to the fans. We want people to watch and come to the events. We want to put on a show for everybody.”

Players think that they are valued better at LIV Golf and the league has mapped out its business model decently. The league has a cool business side and provides neat experience to the fans and players. According to Koepka, “That is what LIV creates and that’s the difference.”

“LIV have done a phenomenal job just listening to the players, what we want, what we need. That’s been the cool part of the process. The transparency. This is the first full season. I’m very pleased with it.” Renowned golfers such as Sergio Garcia, Taylor Gooch and Phil Mickelson have left the PGA Tour for the Saudi backed league. Everyone seems to enjoy the life they are getting to live by being a part of Saudi backed league. They seem to have better pay, better work-life balance, and overall a better experience. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 10, 2023, 02:56:52 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 10, 2023, 02:52:41 PM

He looks really skinny.

his amazing coffee and fasting seem to work

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 10, 2023, 03:00:35 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 10, 2023, 02:55:56 PM

They seem to have better pay, better work-life balance, and overall a better experience. 

This shit coming from a golfer made me spit out my iced tea.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 10, 2023, 03:01:56 PM

everything is relative

many folks don't appreciate that "the Man" wants them to show up and put in a week's work

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 10, 2023, 03:07:07 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 10, 2023, 02:55:56 PM

They seem to have better pay, better work-life balance, and overall a better experience. 

Eh. Most of what they're saying is just following the company line. 

I'll agree with better pay, because it's limited field events with no cut, and high purses. Although the PGAT with the "designated events" is closing that gap. 

But with their new schedule of 14 events, if they also are playing in the Majors, that's nearly the same number most of them had on the PGAT. And they have no control over the schedule of which they will or won't play, and have to fly all over the world for some of these. 

You don't dangle ~$100M in front of these guys, and I don't think any of the big names would have jumped ship even for the large purses and different format. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 10, 2023, 03:24:05 PM

it's all about the $$$

and for a few, it's an easy way to take a shot at the PGA after having issues in the past

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 10, 2023, 04:35:11 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 10, 2023, 03:24:05 PM

it's all about the $$$

and for a few, it's an easy way to take a shot at the PGA after having issues in the past

HV3 was surprisingly candid about it: https://golf.com/news/harold-varner-slams-liv-pros-over-reasons-joining/

The article gave me a lot of background on him, and his candor made me respect his choice to join LIV. It's easy to play for "legacy" or "tradition" when you've never had to wonder where your next meal is coming from. And let's face it, most of the kids exposed to golf at an early age never had to worry about that. 

But when you grow up poor, and had to watch your dad, and watch your grandpa, scratch and claw just to get anything they had in life, it's different. When you grow up like that and someone offers to drop 8 figures in your bank account, ensuring that you and your family will have financial security for the rest of your life, you take it. Because nothing is guaranteed on the PGAT, but seeing your bank account with that balance is. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on April 10, 2023, 09:20:21 PM

Golf (at least watching it on TV) has always been about 2/3rds rooting against guys as it is rooting for somebody.  I didn't need LIV v PGA to make that happen.

the only bozo I was rooting against Sunday was Cantlay.   Get lost dude.    Love Victor's way of handing that on 13 green and 14 tee.      Slow players deserve to shoot 80s, particularly when they are out of contention and grouping filler on Sundays.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 11, 2023, 08:54:28 AM

U.S. life expectancy hurt by misinformation: FDA Commissioner Robert Califf (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/11/us-life-expectancy-hurt-by-misinformation-fda-commissioner-robert-califf.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 11, 2023, 10:48:08 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/hXhvzAR.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 11, 2023, 12:28:17 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/9BbTfVM.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 11, 2023, 02:00:28 PM

The Georgia Bulldogs will introduce Boom, the 10-month-old English Bulldog, as Uga XI during pregame ceremonies at the upcoming G-Day Game on Saturday.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 11, 2023, 02:13:13 PM

Those Area 51 guys have invented an entire fictional world around me, with me posting under pseudonyms and making physical threats.
Thankfully they're mostly quarantined there.  Literally psychotic, paranoid ideas.  It's kind of amazing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 11, 2023, 02:17:25 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 11, 2023, 02:13:13 PM

Those Area 51 guys have invented an entire fictional world around me, with me posting under pseudonyms and making physical threats.

I saw that, I rather doubted you had anything to do with it.  Maybe someone there had a similar handle.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2023, 03:28:23 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on April 10, 2023, 09:20:21 PM

Golf (at least watching it on TV) has always been about 2/3rds rooting against guys as it is rooting for somebody.  I didn't need LIV v PGA to make that happen.

the only bozo I was rooting against Sunday was Cantlay.  Get lost dude.    Love Victor's way of handing that on 13 green and 14 tee.      Slow players deserve to shoot 80s, particularly when they are out of contention and grouping filler on Sundays.

Yeah, I'm sure Rahm would say the same thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 11, 2023, 03:38:01 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on April 10, 2023, 09:20:21 PM

Golf (at least watching it on TV) has always been about 2/3rds rooting against guys as it is rooting for somebody.  I didn't need LIV v PGA to make that happen.

the only bozo I was rooting against Sunday was Cantlay.  Get lost dude.    Love Victor's way of handing that on 13 green and 14 tee.      Slow players deserve to shoot 80s, particularly when they are out of contention and grouping filler on Sundays.

yes.  But while the Tiger effect has made the Tour deeper than ever, it has also filled it with boring ass guys who grew up on the country club.  Guys used to have personality you could root for or against.  Now they are all bland.  Adding LIV added something to it, particularly when easily hateable guys like Koepka and Bryson joined it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 11, 2023, 03:40:59 PM

Quote from: ELA on April 11, 2023, 03:38:01 PM

yes.  But while the Tiger effect has made the Tour deeper than ever, it has also filled it with boring ass guys who grew up on the country club.  Guys used to have personality you could root for or against.  Now they are all bland.  Adding LIV added something to it, particularly when easily hateable guys like Koepka and Bryson joined it

You're kinda blunting the point here. Obv they were easily hateable BEFORE joining LIV, so maybe they weren't all that bland? 

I don't think of Tyrell Hatton as bland either lol. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 11, 2023, 03:41:21 PM

I hate slow play. I may not play well, but at least I do it quickly. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 11, 2023, 03:48:10 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 11, 2023, 03:40:59 PM

You're kinda blunting the point here. Obv they were easily hateable BEFORE joining LIV, so maybe they weren't all that bland?

I don't think of Tyrell Hatton as bland either lol.

Fair.  I should say nobody was easy to cheer for.  It was easy to root against vs. bland, and then all of those guys who were easy to root against, joined LIV.  I like Justin Thomas and Jordan Spieth, but I still don't know if I could tell them apart.

And in fairness, I don't know that I could have separated Brooks Koepka, until he picked a fight with Bryson, the one easy guy to hate.  But then he became the early 2000s Red Sox, pretending to be the good alternative to the Yankees, in their own mind, but were actually just the less successful version

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 11, 2023, 04:02:13 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 11, 2023, 03:41:21 PM

I hate slow play. I may not play well, but at least I do it quickly.

Nothing worse !    Rrrgghh

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 11, 2023, 04:03:28 PM

Pretty easy for me to root for Jordan Spieth a fellow Horn

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 11, 2023, 04:03:44 PM

Quote from: ELA on April 11, 2023, 03:48:10 PM

Fair.  I should say nobody was easy to cheer for.  It was easy to root against vs. bland, and then all of those guys who were easy to root against, joined LIV.  I like Justin Thomas and Jordan Spieth, but I still don't know if I could tell them apart.

And in fairness, I don't know that I could have separated Brooks Koepka, until he picked a fight with Bryson, the one easy guy to hate.  But then he became the early 2000s Red Sox, pretending to be the good alternative to the Yankees, in their own mind, but were actually just the less successful version

Ahh, I get you there. 

But I do give the Euro Tour credit, trying to do some things to make these guys a little more "real":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksDrIsiqZaA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 11, 2023, 04:06:37 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 11, 2023, 04:03:44 PM

Ahh, I get you there.

But I do give the Euro Tour credit, trying to do some things to make these guys a little more "real":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksDrIsiqZaA

The Euro Tour has never struggled to find personalities.  They've struggled to find golfers who can play non-link courses

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 11, 2023, 04:07:35 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 11, 2023, 04:03:28 PM

Pretty easy for me to root for Jordan Spieth a fellow Horn

Oh he's super easy to root for.  Just hard to recognize.  Same as Justin Thomas.  Couple of country club guys with no personality to love or hate.

As a lefty, Phil was my easy rooting interest for a while.  Now.  Eh.  I root for non LIV Americans, so once Spieth got into it this weekend, we were all Team Spieth, but, as he typically does, once he's in contention he gets in his own head, which is 75% of professional golf.  All these guys are amazing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 11, 2023, 04:20:56 PM

BTW I once saw a pairing that was Billy Horschel and Patrick Cantlay. 

Watching them everywhere, but especially on the greens, was like the Special Olympics, if OCD was added as a qualifying condition. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 11, 2023, 04:55:47 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/I9QlPLu.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 11, 2023, 05:32:51 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/A22XksP.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 11, 2023, 11:13:58 PM

At least Harold Varner is honest about why they all left

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/sports/liv-golfs-harold-varner-iii-rips-fellow-tour-members.amp

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 11, 2023, 11:19:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 11, 2023, 05:32:51 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/A22XksP.png)

ice sculpture of stone mountain? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 12, 2023, 02:47:48 AM

I never understood how someone picked a favorite golfer or NASCAR driver.  Seemed especially random to me. 
Aside from liking the best guy (Ehrnhardt, Nicklaus, Woods), is it purely a public persona thing?  How he interviews?
It can't be, "Boy, I love the way he putts!" or "Damn, look at that left-handed turn!"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 12, 2023, 02:49:22 AM

@longhorn320 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=16) thanks for reporting me to some batshit crazy mod from Area 51.  For name-calling.  On a weeks-old thread.
a)  you never get to call someone a snowflake, ever again
b)  what do you want for your 8th birthday?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 12, 2023, 03:02:40 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 12, 2023, 02:49:22 AM

@longhorn320 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=16) thanks for reporting me to some batshit crazy mod from Area 51.  For name-calling.  On a weeks-old thread.
a)  you never get to call someone a snowflake, ever again
b)  what do you want for your 8th birthday?

I never reported you to anyone

someone is yanking your chain

but its not me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2023, 06:55:09 AM

We usually pick a favorite sports team because of our location (in some cases because of religion or that our parents attended).  Why do we have a favorite sport anyway?  I don't pay any attention to the NBA, I don't care for the style of play.  Nor ice hockey, nor soccer.  I might watch a few minutes of the odd game there.  Girl's softball?  Same.

I figure any NASCAR I watch are excerpts on youtube for 2 minutes, if that.  Friends of mine have told me that going to an event is very different and a something.  Maybe I should.  I used to watch a bit of golf back in the day.  There might be a guy I liked that day, Tiger or Jack, for the tournament.  I think one tends to favor one team over another in watching some random sport, often for us it's the underdog.  If "we" watch ND play Marshall in CFB, most of us will pull for Marshall until the game gets to be a blow out and then we turn the channel.

As for the OAM thread in A51, it is typically "unusual" and I'm not sure anyone reported anyone, not that reporting someone makes a difference with very few exceptions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2023, 07:15:27 AM

I see no evidence of anyone reporting anything. I also never received any notification, and I get email notifications whenever someone reports something. It's been a LONG time since I've seen one of those.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2023, 07:28:19 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2023, 07:15:27 AM

I see no evidence of anyone reporting anything. I also never received any notification, and I get email notifications whenever someone reports something. It's been a LONG time since I've seen one of those.

Yup, I think this "report" was a while back, alleged "name calling", which I didn't really see in the thread anyway beyond maybe "snowflake".  We're all adults.  Anyway, moving on ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 12, 2023, 08:07:42 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 12, 2023, 03:02:40 AM

I never reported you to anyone

someone is yanking your chain

but its not me

This time 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 12, 2023, 08:21:36 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2023, 07:15:27 AM

I see no evidence of anyone reporting anything. I also never received any notification, and I get email notifications whenever someone reports something. It's been a LONG time since I've seen one of those.

Then those guys are more psychotic than I thought.  
$10 says I'll be the topic of a segment on Alex Jones by the end of the week.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2023, 08:22:31 AM

Alex Jones is gone, isn't he?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 12, 2023, 09:18:45 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 12, 2023, 08:22:31 AM

Alex Jones is gone, isn't he?

He's gotta come up with $965 million, so no he's not going away anytime soon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2023, 09:22:57 AM

Who is Alex Jones?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2023, 09:26:11 AM

He still has a show apparently.  

Alex Jones's audience and Infowars' revenue grew as Jones alleged Sandy Hook school massacre was a hoax - MarketWatch (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/alex-joness-audience-and-infowars-revenue-grew-as-jones-alleged-sandy-hook-school-massacre-was-a-hoax-01663445395)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2023, 09:45:13 AM

I pay no attention to BS shows like that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2023, 10:34:03 AM

NPR says it’s leaving Twitter | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/media/3945829-npr-says-its-leaving-twitter/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 12, 2023, 11:30:14 AM

I'm sad to say that Alex Jones went to my high school and graduated a couple years after I did.  I didn't know him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 12, 2023, 12:11:29 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2023, 09:45:13 AM

I pay no attention to BS shows like that.

I assumed you subscribed to his newsletter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2023, 12:19:29 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 12, 2023, 12:11:29 PM

I assumed you subscribed to his newsletter.

I don't see how that is possibly merited, even as a joke.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2023, 12:23:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 12, 2023, 12:19:29 PM

I don't see how that is possibly merited, even as a joke.

No shit...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 12, 2023, 12:23:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 12, 2023, 12:19:29 PM

I don't see how that is possibly merited, even as a joke.

report him

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2023, 12:24:23 PM

Hah!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2023, 12:24:35 PM

I take it as more over generalization, that anyone here who is not an avowed liberal is thus an extreme right wing kook who takes what Jones purveys as Gospel.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 12, 2023, 12:52:30 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 12, 2023, 12:11:29 PM

I assumed you subscribed to his newsletter.

Your insistence on being aggressively weird…

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 12, 2023, 01:28:11 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/iP9GYst.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 12, 2023, 01:29:51 PM

Isn't there a golf thread to discuss that boring-ass activity?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 12, 2023, 01:34:29 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 12, 2023, 01:29:51 PM

Isn't there a golf thread to discuss that boring-ass activity?

I'm sorry, was I disrupting mature, fascinating discussions going on in between people sniping at each other for no reason? I must have missed it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 12, 2023, 01:36:11 PM

Snipng like a bunch of 7 year olds is what this thread is all about!!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 12, 2023, 01:39:17 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 12, 2023, 01:29:51 PM

Isn't there a golf thread to discuss that boring-ass activity?

Ive never known anyone who was good at golf that just played it every now and then

When someone plays golf for the first time they either hate it and never play again or they love it and play every chance they get

so when someone calls it a boring ass game I assume they are in the first catahory

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 12, 2023, 01:41:21 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 12, 2023, 01:39:17 PM

Ive never known anyone who was good at golf that just played it every now and then

When someone plays golf for the first time they either hate it and never play again or they love it and play every chance they get

so when someone calls it a boring ass game I assume they are in the first catahory

I'm not very good at soccer but I love watching.  I'm not very good at football, haven't played since junior high, but I love watching it.

Golf just sucks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 12, 2023, 01:43:48 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 12, 2023, 01:41:21 PM

I'm not very good at soccer but I love watching.  I'm not very good at football, haven't played since junior high, but I love watching it.

Golf just sucks.

so you have never tried it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 12, 2023, 01:46:13 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 12, 2023, 01:43:48 PM

so you have never tried it?

I tried it as a teen in college.  Went with friends who love it.

It wasn't my thing.

I still occasionally go out with that group of friends when they decide to do a golf outing.  I just drive the cart and drink beer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 12, 2023, 01:52:34 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 12, 2023, 01:46:13 PM

I tried it as a teen.  Went with friends who love it.

It wasn't my thing.

I still occasionally go out with that group of friends when they decide to do a golf outing.  I just drive the cart and drink beer.

my point exactly

golf is unique its not like football or other sports

when folks try it it either grabs them or it doesnt 

I was in the grab category and used to pkay it as much as I could without getting a divorce

I dont condemn those who hate it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on April 12, 2023, 01:56:25 PM

My sole golf experience was limited to one outing in Southern California around 1990.  My three housemates paired me up with an idiot who like me happened to be from Michigan.  This guy managed to hit three consecutive balls into the exact same square foot of a pond on the course.  After the third he threw his club at the cart.  Hilarious.  And needless to say I drank a lot of beer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 12, 2023, 01:57:02 PM

And I'm not condemning those who like it.

I'm condemning the entity of golf itself.  It sucks.

But I have no problem with drinking beer with friends.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2023, 02:00:37 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 12, 2023, 01:52:34 PM

my point exactly

golf is unique its not like football or other sports

when folks try it it either grabs them or it doesnt

I was in the grab category and used to pkay it as much as I could without getting a divorce

I dont condemn those who hate it

Is golf a sport? I think of it more as a game. Like bowling or pool or something.

Baseball? Sport or game?


(https://i.imgur.com/4URWAiF.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 12, 2023, 02:50:35 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2023, 02:00:37 PM

Is golf a sport? I think of it more as a game. Like bowling or pool or something.

I think we are the same guy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 12, 2023, 03:01:22 PM

Hey @longhorn320 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=16)  just saw an ad for the Alienware m18, which also comes with a full numpad.  So you're not restricted to just the Precision mobile workstation anymore!

(https://i.imgur.com/AUiPERn.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 12, 2023, 03:33:39 PM

Can't make this shit up
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/east-palestine-ohio-train-derailment-truck-carrying-40000-pounds-of-toxic-soil-crashes-on-highway/

Hope who ever keeps screwing with this stuff gets contaminated themselves

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 12, 2023, 04:09:52 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 12, 2023, 03:01:22 PM

Hey @longhorn320 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=16)  just saw an ad for the Alienware m18, which also comes with a full numpad.  So you're not restricted to just the Precision mobile workstation anymore!

(https://i.imgur.com/AUiPERn.png)

I bet there was negative feedback from gamers

my current Alienware 17 R5 is still running great so I'll pass

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 12, 2023, 04:29:25 PM

Ah, you already have an Alienware. For some reason, I thought you had bought the Precision workstation.

My XPS15 came in on Monday, I love it already. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 12, 2023, 05:08:25 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 12, 2023, 04:29:25 PM

Ah, you already have an Alienware. For some reason, I thought you had bought the Precision workstation.

My XPS15 came in on Monday, I love it already. 

I bought the Alienware first 3 years ago

the battery swelled up and I had to replace it which was very involved

you couldnt just open the back panel and replace it

nope I had to almost take it down to the motherboard to do it

anyway I needed a backup computer so I bought the Precision

Once the Alienware was back up I switched everything over and use the Alienware as a backup

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 12, 2023, 05:09:34 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 12, 2023, 04:29:25 PM

Ah, you already have an Alienware. For some reason, I thought you had bought the Precision workstation.

My XPS15 came in on Monday, I love it already. 

glad to hear your happy with your new purchase

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 12, 2023, 06:44:39 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 12, 2023, 01:29:51 PM

Isn't there a golf thread to discuss that boring-ass activity?

You gotta go find yourself some non-boring ass then.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 12, 2023, 10:48:36 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 12, 2023, 06:44:39 PM

You gotta go find yourself some non-boring ass then.

Football.  Football is non-boring-ass.  They should make some message boards dedicated to college football or something.  Maybe call it CFB for short.

I'm just spitballing here, roll with me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 12, 2023, 10:59:17 PM

to me soccer is one of the most boring sports there is

I rarely watch a match but if I do I record it first and then fast forward to each score

I rewatch each score and then go to the next

ten minutes and Im done 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 12, 2023, 10:59:42 PM

If there's running involved, it's a sport.
If you don't run, it's a game.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 12, 2023, 11:00:01 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 12, 2023, 10:59:17 PM

to me soccer is one of the most boring sports there is

I rarely watch a match but if I do I record it first and then fast forward to each score

I rewatch each score and then go to the next

ten minutes and Im done

How American of you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 12, 2023, 11:07:23 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 12, 2023, 11:00:01 PM

How American of you.

not much comrade if it means I have to like soccer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 12, 2023, 11:11:48 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 12, 2023, 10:59:42 PM

If there's running involved, it's a sport.
If you don't run, it's a game. 

A good starting point for sure, I agree with this as a criterion,in general.

I also believe a sport must include an objective measure of scoring, like goals or points or runs or touchdowns or timing or distance.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 12, 2023, 11:15:51 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 12, 2023, 11:11:48 PM

A good starting point for sure, I agree with this as a criterion,in general.

I also believe a sport must include an objective measure of scoring, like goals or points or runs or touchdowns or timing or distance.

I agree with your 2nd criterion

so I guess boxing only becomes a sport with a knockout

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 13, 2023, 01:43:09 AM

Boxing is neither a sport nor a game.  It's a fight with rules.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 13, 2023, 01:44:12 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 12, 2023, 11:07:23 PM

not much comrade if it means I have to like soccer

I'm with ya

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2023, 04:42:27 AM

Is a track event a sport or a game?  It's a contest.  4x400 ... team sport?  Or contest?

What about water polo?  No running involved.  Pretty much a tough "sport" ...

Baseball is interesting because in the past folks who were, um, a bit overweight played well.  Pitchers in particular come in all sizes and shapes.  I think today the players are nearly all in quite good condition.  I don't much care how we categorize things, but it's fun.

I watched the Braves sweep the Reds with three one run wins.  I think the Reds are becoming a pretty decent team.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 13, 2023, 08:46:07 AM

I guess for pitchers in the... American League?... baseball is not a sport.

I'd say track events are a sport.  They run, and are objectively measured by time and/or distance between runners, to determine the results.

Field events... hmmmmm... is the "windup" for delivery of the shot put considered "running?"  :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2023, 10:00:11 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/ROtH3FJ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on April 13, 2023, 10:57:46 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 12, 2023, 01:52:34 PM

my point exactly

golf is unique its not like football or other sports

when folks try it it either grabs them or it doesnt

I was in the grab category and used to pkay it as much as I could without getting a divorce

I dont condemn those who hate it

That's why you golf with your wife.  I can golf as much as I want (usually 2x a week) because the wife goes with me. BTW I still suck at golf

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 13, 2023, 11:24:18 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on April 13, 2023, 10:57:46 AM

That's why you golf with your wife.  I can golf as much as I want (usually 2x a week) because the wife goes with me. BTW I still suck at golf

reminds me of at least 3 golf jokes which I wont relay

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 14, 2023, 08:49:39 AM

the egg lobby.........

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2022/3/2/22956966/inflation-explained-by-eggs (https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2022/3/2/22956966/inflation-explained-by-eggs)

A fun fact: In the ‘60s, amid concerns about inflation and rising prices, President Lyndon Johnson asked the US surgeon general to put out an alert about cholesterol in eggs, apparently trying to curb demand. It didn’t really help, because prices were up among a bunch of items, not just a few — which is also the scenario we find ourselves in now.

When the pandemic met the egg
Like it has all industries, the pandemic has shaped the story of the egg market over the past two years, and that story hasn’t been a linear one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2023, 11:51:18 AM

https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/atl-ranks-high-among-best-cities-college-grads-2023

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 14, 2023, 12:25:50 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 14, 2023, 11:51:18 AM

https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/atl-ranks-high-among-best-cities-college-grads-2023

why dont you ever say anything good about Atlanta instead of knocking it constantly

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2023, 01:09:57 PM

I find such rankings silly

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 14, 2023, 01:21:34 PM

Lobbying is an attempt to screw up the ratios of want and need meant by the "...of the people, by the people, and for the people..."
It's unAmerican.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2023, 01:35:30 PM

Lobbying is free speech 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 14, 2023, 01:49:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 14, 2023, 01:35:30 PM

Lobbying is free speech

yeah, according to the supreme court. but they're wrong.

money doesn't = speech. never has. never will. money = money.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 14, 2023, 02:07:08 PM

First of all, the whole Citizens United v FEC money=speech thing had nothing to do with lobbying. 

Second, contrary to popular belief, Citizens United was NOT the court case used to justify money=speech. That was SpeechNow v FEC. It struck down contribution limits to PACs (not directly to candidates) on the basis that PACs engaged in free speech, and you can't restrict the amount of speech someone is willing to fund based upon a monetary limit. 

Citizens United merely said, after SpeechNow, that corporations (which are merely groups formed by individuals, who have free speech rights individually) could not be barred from political speech because they were a corporate form. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2023, 02:31:28 PM

I don't see how we could somehow "ban" or limit "lobbying".  It is in fact free speech, period.

The various "industry group lobbys" basically speak for the collective interests of those groups, and may at times buy ads for their products, like "Beef, it's what's for dinner".

And they are allowed to contact politicians to express their interests and concerns.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 14, 2023, 02:47:57 PM

it's the form of "contact" to the bank account as opposed to the ear, that bothers most

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2023, 03:06:33 PM

Sure, and some of that can be illegal.  But pure lobbying is free speech.

I was peripherally involved in a lobbying effort with our Congressman back in the day, it was pretty amusing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2023, 03:55:30 PM

Lesson learned...

We're hosting a friend visiting from Cincy.  My wife wanted to take her to Ponce City Market.  OK, fine, turns out the road work near that place is a mess, and I parked across the street in another lot, with signs saying don't park here and leave.  I figured we'd be in and out, nobody was really watching, it's a very busy lot.

Came back after 1.5 hours and had boot on the car.

Bummer.  Well, you go to their on line site and enter CC info etc., I started worrying it was a scam anyway.  But it was raining and we needed to go.  $75 charge, and in about 3 minutes the boot was gone, I never did see anyone come near the car.

I don't know how they can tell that you walked across the street.

The main drag there has lanes shut down and it took "forever" to get out of the lot.  We usually walk there if we want to go.  The novelty of the place is pretty worn for me.  Our friend liked it.

My wife wanted me to drive around a bit to show her the area, so I did, but she started being on her phone the whole time.  As I decided to come home, I got onto another four lane road ... with a lane shut down.  I don't drive here enough to know such things.

I got home without further damage.  I prefer walking.  And the rain has stopped and it's sunny now.  We're headed to the Dogwood Festival tomorrow which fortunately is across the street.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 15, 2023, 05:57:35 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 14, 2023, 01:35:30 PM

Lobbying is free speech

Free speech has limiits, and lobbying should be set outside of it.  It's an attempt to gain an inordinate amount of money/priority to an idea that would otherwise have less.
I'm not even looking at it with the citizen's united thing, I'm specifying the plain, initial small-ball lobbying like the egg industry or the NRA, etc.
Here's the problem with them:  their influence and money, directed at politicians, makes their interests the equivalent of the twittersphere.......as in they are a tiny population that becomes overstated and screws everything up.  They're not representative of the people in terms of numbers, but do represent the financial interests of the few.
It's greedy horse shit and could very easily be omitted from the umbrella of free speech. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 15, 2023, 06:38:58 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 15, 2023, 05:57:35 AM

Free speech has limiits, and lobbying should be set outside of it.  It's an attempt to gain an inordinate amount of money/priority to an idea that would otherwise have less.
I'm not even looking at it with the citizen's united thing, I'm specifying the plain, initial small-ball lobbying like the egg industry or the NRA, etc.
Here's the problem with them:  their influence and money, directed at politicians, makes their interests the equivalent of the twittersphere.......as in they are a tiny population that becomes overstated and screws everything up.  They're not representative of the people in terms of numbers, but do represent the financial interests of the few.
It's greedy horse shit and could very easily be omitted from the umbrella of free speech. 

it doesn't have to be omitted from the umbrella of free speech, because it is not even speech. period. corporations are not people, despite what courts have ruled.

free speech = the right of a human being to say, write, record, draw, paint, publish, express whatever the hell they want (with very few exceptions...such as direct threats of violence/incitment of violence). that's free speech. and that's it.

lobbying is tantamount to nothing more than legal bribery, and it should be illegal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2023, 06:58:31 AM

I don't think one could write a law out lawing or limiting lobbying without infringing the free speech rights of an individual.

Maybe that's why we've had lobbying around since at least the Civil War and no such law has been passed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 15, 2023, 08:33:01 AM

Of course Fro is trying to invent more ways to limit free speech. 

Next he'll be forcing us to use his preferred pronouns. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2023, 08:39:10 AM

I'd guess most of us don't like "lobbying" and "lobbyists".  We know some of them are "retired" Congressmen et al. with "inside" pull.  And no doubt much of the lobbying done is against the public interest, or our interests.  But the core of it is a group of individuals seeking to influence legislation et al.  You and I could  write letters, no one wants to restrict that.  We usually don't because we feel they get lost in The System (and they do).

And if a lobbyist offers "benefits" to an elected official, they already are breaking the law.  That hardly means they don't, but it's already illegal.  And my guess is they have ways around the law,  they give "benefits" to cousins or friends or whatever (like the Bagmen of yore).

The other way (there are many) to influence is to form a PAC, if you have access to funds, and attack the politicians opponents.  I've suggested a rule where you can't in a political ad mention anyone's name but the guy you are supporting.

Anyway, I think this is akin to whack a mole, no matter what you pass, they'll figure a way around it, or file suit and delay things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 15, 2023, 08:44:40 AM

Harlan Crow, Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas’s billionaire best friend???

Harlan would be my best friend.
No offense to anyone here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 15, 2023, 09:25:11 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 15, 2023, 08:44:40 AM

Harlan Crow, Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas’s billionaire best friend???

Harlan would be my best friend.
No offense to anyone here.

This was good. Very good. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 15, 2023, 09:28:24 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 15, 2023, 06:58:31 AM

I don't think one could write a law out lawing or limiting lobbying without infringing the free speech rights of an individual.

Maybe that's why we've had lobbying around since at least the Civil War and no such law has been passed.

It's actually written into the dang amendment. 

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

The issues with lamenting lobbying is that "lobbying" isn't a singular or even particularly narrow act. So it's hard to nail down. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 15, 2023, 09:30:34 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 15, 2023, 09:28:24 AM

It's actually written into the dang amendment.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

The issues with lamenting lobbying is that "lobbying" isn't a singular or even particularly narrow act. So it's hard to nail down.

More financial oversight is needed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2023, 10:59:52 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/Tz2pCA6.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 15, 2023, 11:05:57 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 15, 2023, 10:59:52 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/Tz2pCA6.png)

F35

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2023, 11:08:23 AM

Yeah, it's the "B", STOL, which means our small carriers now have pretty decent fighter/attack assets.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 15, 2023, 11:17:56 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 15, 2023, 09:28:24 AM

The issues with lamenting lobbying is that "lobbying" isn't a singular or even particularly narrow act. So it's hard to nail down.

so it's too hard
we know it's not OK, but it's too hard, so just allow it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 15, 2023, 11:36:01 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 15, 2023, 11:17:56 AM

so it's too hard
we know it's not OK, but it's too hard, so just allow it.

We know it’s not ideal. But we don’t have even close to a good mechanism to police it without actively capping what are pretty fundamental rights. And in the end we often air on the side of rights and freedom, hopefully.

Like, I’m not particularly in favor of gobs of money going into messaging around politicians. But if people have the ability to message, which is speech, they’ll probably find a way to do it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 15, 2023, 11:36:19 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 15, 2023, 09:30:34 AM

More financial oversight is needed.

But what does that look like?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 15, 2023, 11:39:50 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 15, 2023, 11:36:01 AM

We know it’s not ideal. But we don’t have even close to a good mechanism to police it without actively capping what are pretty fundamental rights. And in the end we often air on the side of rights and freedom, hopefully.

Like, I’m not particularly in favor of gobs of money going into messaging around politicians. But if people have the ability to message, which is speech, they’ll probably find a way to do it.

capping the size of the gob would be a great place to start
not easy to track, but an attempt could be made and a stiff penalty if caught

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 15, 2023, 12:21:21 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 15, 2023, 11:08:23 AM

Yeah, it's the "B", STOL, which means our small carriers now have pretty decent fighter/attack assets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pETO3-Qupsw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 15, 2023, 01:22:39 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 15, 2023, 11:39:50 AM

capping the size of the gob would be a great place to start
not easy to track, but an attempt could be made and a stiff penalty if caught

Gob?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2023, 01:25:38 PM

I suspect everyone here hates negatives ads, most of which come from PACs these days.  "Don't vote for X, he hates babies and baseball."

I don't see a viable mechanism for limiting their "gobs" of money, much as I'd love to do it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 15, 2023, 02:26:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 15, 2023, 01:25:38 PM

I suspect everyone here hates negatives ads, most of which come from PACs these days.  "Don't vote for X, he hates babies and baseball."

And I'd highlight that these PACs and their negative ads actually are a completely different thing than lobbying. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 15, 2023, 02:32:33 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 15, 2023, 01:22:39 PM

Gob?

your term

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 15, 2023, 11:36:01 AM

Like, I’m not particularly in favor of gobs of money going into messaging around politicians. But if people have the ability to message, which is speech, they’ll probably find a way to do it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 15, 2023, 02:33:57 PM

freedom of speech

why does this translate to a transfer of $$$?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 15, 2023, 03:01:22 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 15, 2023, 02:33:57 PM

freedom of speech

why does this translate to a transfer of $$$?

Because while speech is free, amplifying it costs money. 

If you want to buy airtime to show your speech on television in between programming, you need money. Whether that speech is advertising Coca-Cola or putting out a message saying "Candidate B sucks."

It's why it's constitutional to have limits on actual campaign contributions to a candidate (money != speech), but it's unconstitutional to limit contributions to a PAC that intends to buy airtime to distribute ads (money = speech). 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 15, 2023, 03:15:56 PM

well then, "F" the amplification

you want to run an ad, give the $$$ to ABC or Twitter

don't allow $$$ to be given to a politician

besides, we're discussing a lobby, not a campaign 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 15, 2023, 03:56:45 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 15, 2023, 03:15:56 PM

well then, "F" the amplification

you want to run an ad, give the $$$ to ABC or Twitter

don't allow $$$ to be given to a politician

besides, we're discussing a lobby, not a campaign

At a point, there’s just a workaround. 

I can’t give to candidate A, but I can buy ads saying his opponent will burn down America. (And shoot, maybe I hire a former advisor to help run things). 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 15, 2023, 03:59:35 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 15, 2023, 03:15:56 PM

well then, "F" the amplification

you want to run an ad, give the $$$ to ABC or Twitter

don't allow $$$ to be given to a politician

besides, we're discussing a lobby, not a campaign

You're not giving it to a politician. You're giving it to a PAC. Then they produce the ads and buy the airtime. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 15, 2023, 04:08:19 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 15, 2023, 01:25:38 PM

I suspect everyone here hates negatives ads, most of which come from PACs these days.  "Don't vote for X, he hates babies and baseball."

I guess I'm not gonna win.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 15, 2023, 04:11:15 PM

that's not great but it's OK with me

I've contributed to PACs in the past

the issue is with lobbyists buying votes  for their cause by shoveling money or gifts to politicians

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 15, 2023, 04:11:43 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 15, 2023, 04:08:19 PM

I guess I'm not gonna win.

neither is Utee

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 15, 2023, 04:11:47 PM

Went and looked at new Cobalt boats today. Thinking about it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 15, 2023, 04:13:30 PM

get one with a nice shitter below deck

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 15, 2023, 04:17:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 15, 2023, 06:58:31 AM

I don't think one could write a law out lawing or limiting lobbying without infringing the free speech rights of an individual.

Maybe that's why we've had lobbying around since at least the Civil War and no such law has been passed.

Lobbying is more dangerous than yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater.  That's all I'm saying.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 15, 2023, 04:18:06 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 15, 2023, 03:59:35 PM

You're not giving it to a politician. You're giving it to a PAC. Then they produce the ads and buy the airtime.

Yes.  

A loophole.


A work-around.


Immoral horse shit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 15, 2023, 04:19:33 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 15, 2023, 08:33:01 AM

Of course Fro is trying to invent more ways to limit free speech.

Next he'll be forcing us to use his preferred pronouns.

You're a clown.
These rogue wave posts display it for all to see.
Grow up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 15, 2023, 04:23:14 PM

Lobbyists (and I guess PACs, etc) bastardize the problem from being "what is the best for the greatest number of people" to being "how much money does it take to make the choice I want you to."
.
Good ideas > More money
.
Decisions for human well-being > Decisions for the few to make the most money
.
These are obvious and simple and no, "free speech" does not give them a pass.  Fuck that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 15, 2023, 04:26:00 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 15, 2023, 04:13:30 PM

get one with a nice shitter below deck

New 28' 2023 Cobalt R8 Bayside Blue, Stock #COB437952-B1 - The Boat House (boathouseh2o.com) (https://www.boathouseh2o.com/inventory/08021-2023-cobalt-r8)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 15, 2023, 04:51:40 PM

But then you won't jump in the water every time you have to take a dump and experience the fishes cleaning you...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 15, 2023, 05:27:03 PM

very nice

you've downsized

which is fine

doing your part to save the planet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 15, 2023, 06:09:23 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 15, 2023, 04:17:24 PM

Lobbying is more dangerous than yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater.  That's all I'm saying.

It’s funny, that turn of phrase both doesn’t reflect actual free speech law and comes from a decision that was deeply wrong. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 16, 2023, 01:25:53 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 15, 2023, 06:09:23 PM

It’s funny, that turn of phrase both doesn’t reflect actual free speech law and comes from a decision that was deeply wrong.

I know.
But it still holds true.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2023, 04:44:13 AM

So, what sort of language in some legislation could curtail or limit "lobbying" without abridging free speech of individuals?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2023, 05:11:06 AM

Ingenuity helicopter aces 50th flight on Mars | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/14/world/ingenuity-mars-helicopter-50th-flight-scn/index.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2023, 05:47:24 AM

I watched a few minutes of the UGA spring game yesterday pondering what it all means.  The offense makes a nice gain, so our defense is terrible.  The Defense makes a nice stop, our offense is terrible.

I'm sure it's useful for the players, and may aid recruiting, but I can't draw much from it as a fan.  Nobody got hurt that I saw.

(Their impressive apparent starting nose tackle went to the portal surprising nearly everyone...).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 16, 2023, 07:39:25 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 15, 2023, 04:51:40 PM

But then you won't jump in the water every time you have to take a dump and experience the fishes cleaning you...

I don't think he's kidding but i wouldn't go that route as a large mouth bass or even a barracuda could be prowling about from the vother side

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 16, 2023, 08:39:30 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 15, 2023, 05:27:03 PM

very nice

you've downsized

which is fine

doing your part to save the planet

No need for a cabin boat down here. Some people have them, but we are day boaters until I know the waters like the back of my hand.

Much different boating than on Lake Michigan.

The red dot is where we are stored. Blue dots are some of the places we go often.

(https://i.imgur.com/1k2HdWk.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 16, 2023, 08:42:24 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 16, 2023, 07:39:25 AM

I don't think he's kidding but i wouldn't go that route as a large mouth bass or even a barracuda could be prowling about from the vother side

I've seen bonnetheads and bulls. My wife caught one of the former. The former was not happy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2023, 09:28:42 AM

https://youtu.be/ArzXveJfYkw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2023, 09:29:17 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 16, 2023, 08:39:30 AM

No need for a cabin boat down here. Some people have them, but we are day boaters until I know the waters like the back of my hand.

Much different boating than on Lake Michigan.

The red dot is where we are stored. Blue dots are some of the places we go often.

[img width=500 height=460.989]https://i.imgur.com/1k2HdWk.png[/img]

very cool

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2023, 10:42:30 AM

Our dryer burned out it's "computer" and the wife wants new W/D stacked in the laundry, that was $2300.  Ouch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2023, 11:09:27 AM

yikes, my dryer did that a couple years ago

spent $600 on a new one
works great and it's large capacity

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2023, 11:27:32 AM

The dryer computer was $409.  My wife hates how the current set up doors open, the washer is not reversible.  So, she wanted stacked.  I talked her down off the stainless steel package that was an astounding $1200 each.  The same brand without the SS and with more features was $866 each.  The wanted the extended warranty (I didn't) and of course it's $40 to haul off the old ones.  Anyway, she should be happier doing laundry, which probably is a good thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2023, 12:57:20 PM

I'm not a fan of my front loading washer
but, it doesn't bother me enuff to buy a top load

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2023, 01:02:05 PM

My wife insists on doing the laundry, I've offered.  She does ask me how to get "X" clean at times.  We've had our front loader and dryer about ten years, the washer is still fine.  The lady at Lowe's said they would rehome it to some women's shelter.  Maybe they can fix the dryer too.

It's mid April and I've been over spending.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2023, 01:11:46 PM

I don't mind doing laundry.  It's easy.
I haven't been spending enough
took a friend out for beers and dinner last night just to spend some $$$

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 16, 2023, 01:21:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2023, 04:44:13 AM

So, what sort of language in some legislation could curtail or limit "lobbying" without abridging free speech of individuals?

Keep the speech free and the money out of it.
If verbal/written IDEAS are persuasive, fine, great.
The moment a dollar appears, that's the problem.  That's what should be illegal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2023, 01:29:27 PM

5 Crazy Facts About Lobbyists | RepresentUs (https://represent.us/action/5-facts-lobbyists/)

They can't legally give money to elected officials today, so we're done.  Except. ...

They can however generate donations for their political campaigns.  This proposed law sounds nice and all, but can't pass for obvious reasons, and likely is unconstitutional.

Luckily, that’s something we can fix with a single law. The unseemly and terrible behavior we’ve covered in this piece may be legal now, but it doesn’t have to be. Reforms to ban lobbyists from coordinating fundraising, close the revolving door, and end “shadow lobbying” have already been proposed at the federal level, and they’re currently picking up momentum in cities and states around the country. As the anti-corruption movement grows, we get closer and closer to ending lobbyist corruption for good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 16, 2023, 01:36:25 PM

It's amazing that I say what lobbyists do isn't ethical and you continously have a retort.

What's legal and illegal doesn't matter, when so much money is flying around.  I love the end of your last post, but overall, you don't seem to understand the totality of the lobbying infestation killing our governance.  

When the financial success of the lone corporation is placed above the good of the people, this is wrong.  If an idea itself is not persuasive and requires supplemental financial accompaniment, it is not a good-enough idea. 

Why anyone would resist improving this situation is beyond me.  Idk, maybe your portfolio would suffer.  Poor you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2023, 01:44:18 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 15, 2023, 01:25:38 PM

I suspect everyone here hates negatives ads, most of which come from PACs these days.  "Don't vote for X, he hates babies and baseball."

I don't see a viable mechanism for limiting their "gobs" of money, much as I'd love to do it.

Maybe you missed my comment here?  I'd love to change a lot of things, but most of them I see as "not gonna happen", so I don't stress over them.  I am aware of WHY they aren't going to happen, and simply point that out.

I'd like to reduce our carbon footprint also, but it simply is not gonna happen fast enough to matter.  

I can't think of any Constitutional limit on "lobbying" that lobbyists wouldn't easily traverse.  It's mostly a destructive practice, but it isn't going to change.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 16, 2023, 01:46:06 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2023, 01:44:18 PM

Maybe you missed my comment here?  I'd love to change a lot of things, but most of them I see as "not gonna happen", so I don't stress over them.  I am aware of WHY they aren't going to happen, and simply point that out.

I'd like to reduce our carbon footprint also, but it simply is not gonna happen fast enough to matter. 

I can't think of any Constitutional limit on "lobbying" that lobbyists wouldn't easily traverse.  It's mostly a destructive practice, but it isn't going to change.

You could make it so it's not "the way" and out in the open.  You could make it so it took place illegally, behind closed doors, etc.
But it's probably better to just shrug and say "fuck it."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2023, 01:47:25 PM

Newsflash, I can't make anything of this ilk happen.  If you can, go for it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2023, 01:50:01 PM

Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas reported that his family has earned rental income from a Nebraska real estate firm that has been shuttered since 2006, according to the Washington Post.
In recent years, Thomas reportedly continued to disclose between $50,000 and $100,000 in income from the old firm annually.
It marks the latest question around the justice's financial practices after a recent ProPublica report revealed Thomas has accepted secret luxury trips from Republican megadonor Harlan Crow.


_____________________________________________

I hope buying judges is illegal

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 16, 2023, 01:52:20 PM

None of it matters.  We're post-truth.  Just lawyer up, you'll be fine.

Thanks "alternative facts" people.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2023, 02:06:18 PM

Going after a SCOTUS Justice is VERY difficult.  Only they can recuse themselves on a case, for example.  There is not real code of conduct.  You COULD get him for falsifying business records, or somesuch, maybe.  Or tax evasion, always a good one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2023, 02:18:39 PM

so, no rules or laws against billionaires bribing judges with $$$? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2023, 02:22:34 PM

Bribery is usually illegal, but it has some specific requirements.  The giving of gifts in not illegal, if that is all there is to it.  It's the quid pro quo that is tough to prove, and illegal.  I figure in any political kind of case before SCOTUS, the votes are pretty much a foregone conclusion for most of them.  They don't need bribing.

Now, if you could point to an unexpected ruling by Thomas that clearly benefitted said billionaire ...you could have a basis for impeachment, and then trial.

We don't impeach Congressmen, it was done once, sort of, long ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2023, 02:27:09 PM

seems odd to me that impeaching presidents has become a thing, but not congressmen/women

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2023, 02:35:37 PM

Congress has other means which are a lot more viable to use for discipline.

I view impeachment of a President as a political move, not really something useful, unless said President erred so obviously his own party leaves him.  Then he'd resign.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 16, 2023, 02:39:40 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 16, 2023, 02:18:39 PM

so, no rules or laws against billionaires bribing judges with $$$?

There are! But the standard of proof is extremely high.

in this case, the main rules broken appear to be focused on actually disclosing gifts you receive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2023, 02:40:59 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/9zqWLF1.png)

You can see here that a turbofan design is really a ducted fan engine, most of the air goes around the part that burns fuel but is accelerated by the turbine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 16, 2023, 02:46:19 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 16, 2023, 01:36:25 PM

It's amazing that I say what lobbyists do isn't ethical and you continously have a retort.

What's legal and illegal doesn't matter, when so much money is flying around.  I love the end of your last post, but overall, you don't seem to understand the totality of the lobbying infestation killing our governance. 

When the financial success of the lone corporation is placed above the good of the people, this is wrong.  If an idea itself is not persuasive and requires supplemental financial accompaniment, it is not a good-enough idea.

Why anyone would resist improving this situation is beyond me.  Idk, maybe your portfolio would suffer.  Poor you.

The issue might be that this is an extremely broad and general complaint that uses force and feeling to cover a lack of specificity.

”Lobbying” is not limited to big corporations, nor is it even a precise act. It’s a wide range of behaviors and advocacy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2023, 02:55:10 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 16, 2023, 02:39:40 PM

There are! But the standard of proof is extremely high.

in this case, the main rules broken appear to be focused on actually disclosing gifts you receive.

and there just might be a good reason gifts were not disclosed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 16, 2023, 05:14:09 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 16, 2023, 02:46:19 PM

The issue might be that this is an extremely broad and general complaint that uses force and feeling to cover a lack of specificity.

”Lobbying” is not limited to big corporations, nor is it even a precise act. It’s a wide range of behaviors and advocacy.

Maybe the center-right crowd should be called the Apathy Party.  
Heinous lobbying rewarding the few and harming the many?  Shrug.
More kids got shot and killed by semi-automatic weapons?  Shrug.
Humans exacerbate climate change?  Shrug
.
The complicated, nuanced "fix" is simply the will to change things.  The thorough, wide-ranging legistation to forbid the shady outcomes caused by lobbying cannot be changed by apathetic people suggesting it's too complicated.  That's horse shit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 16, 2023, 06:55:29 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 16, 2023, 05:14:09 PM

Maybe the center-right crowd should be called the Apathy Party. 
Heinous lobbying rewarding the few and harming the many?  Shrug.
More kids got shot and killed by semi-automatic weapons?  Shrug.
Humans exacerbate climate change?  Shrug
.
The complicated, nuanced "fix" is simply the will to change things.  The thorough, wide-ranging legistation to forbid the shady outcomes caused by lobbying cannot be changed by apathetic people suggesting it's too complicated.  That's horse shit.

You're deflecting. I'm not talking about guns or climate change.

You keep talking about lobbying, lobbying, lobbying. And at no point have you pointed to one type of lobbying. What acts do we need to make illegal? What are these things that are rewarding the few and harming the many? They're so heinous, so we should have some easy examples to bring up and discuss. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 16, 2023, 09:15:33 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2023, 10:42:30 AM

Our dryer burned out it's "computer" and the wife wants new W/D stacked in the laundry, that was $2300.  Ouch.

I don't know what a roll of clothes line goes for but I'd give it a shot. Run it between balconies  I'm sure the HOA wouldn't mind not in upscale Midtown

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 16, 2023, 11:13:43 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 16, 2023, 06:55:29 PM

You're deflecting. I'm not talking about guns or climate change.

You keep talking about lobbying, lobbying, lobbying. And at no point have you pointed to one type of lobbying. What acts do we need to make illegal? What are these things that are rewarding the few and harming the many? They're so heinous, so we should have some easy examples to bring up and discuss.

Just google the largest industries in terms of lobbying dollars.

The National Realtors Association is near the top.  Why do they need to spend so much money on lobbyists?  Hmmph.  Idk.  Let's think....

They’d like to deregulate their sector of the financial industry, they’d like to have lax laws about real estate practices. They’d like their members to make as much money as possible. That’s their mission and goal in life. They’re not there for your benefit.

They’d like you to buy too many houses and be open to being preyed upon. They’d like real estate agents NOT to have a fiduciary duty to you. They’d like you to have no recourse when you’re treated badly in a real estate transaction. They’d like you to walk into Open Houses and buy a house on impulse. Their members just love uninformed and unrepresented buyers. Their mission in life is to help their many members make more money.

They’re a trade association that lobbies and acts in the interest of their members, at least theoretically. That’s what they do. They are not there for your benefit, only for theirs and their members.

What's another one?  I'll give you a hint:  teenagers dropping dead all across the country.  BINGO!  Big Pharma!  Why would they need to spend so much money lobbying for influence in DC?!?  Golly gee willakers........don't know.
Most of the pharmaceutical and health product industry’s 2022 lobbying efforts took aim at the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 (https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/5376/text), which was introduced as an amendment to the Build Back Better Act and signed into law (https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/16/politics/biden-inflation-reduction-act-signing/index.html) by President Joe Biden (https://www.opensecrets.org/2020-presidential-race/joe-biden/candidate?id=N00001669) in August 2022. The bill — among other environmental and economic objectives— allows for Medicare to negotiate the prices of certain prescription drugs, caps out-of-pocket spending for Medicare beneficiaries and takes aim at insulin costs. These provisions are to go into effect gradually over the next three years.

Each year for the past decade, the pharmaceutical and health product industry has one-upped its federal lobbying expenditures from the previous year, an overall increase of 36% since 2013. Industry lobbyists tackle  government attempts to lower drug prices, among other legislative and regulatory efforts, maintaining the industry’s dominance as the top lobbying spender for over 20 years.
.
Negotiiatinig drug prices?  Cheaper medicine for the masses?  FROM OUR RICH GREEN HANDS!!!!  NEVERRRR!!!!!
.

If you're going to play dumb about the specifics of the EVILS of lobbying, maybe just watch the news more often or something? 

It's blatant.  It's egregious.  And it's despicable. 

From the little thngs like the actual fucking egg lobby wanting to keep "breakfast food" a thing to the heinous, incorrigible massive pharma industry fighting tooth-and-nail to prevent sick people from being able to afford their medicines.......but let's just all shrug and whine about how hard and complicated it would be to change things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 16, 2023, 11:23:04 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2023, 02:35:37 PM

Congress has other means which are a lot more viable to use for discipline.

I view impeachment of a President as a political move, not really something useful, unless said President erred so obviously his own party leaves him.  Then he'd resign.

I think it's become clear that both parties are so entrenched that that would never happen anymore

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 05:36:16 AM

I suspect we all here dislike much of what lobbying does to influence legislation, I know I do.  The realists among understand it's a "fact of life" and ain't gonna change, so we deal with it.  The Electoral College is much the same, though in this case there is a "compact between the states" effort that could change that in a decade or so, maybe.

If I had any effort to give and any influence to exert, I'd focus on something I might be able to change.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 06:02:48 AM

Thomas has reported income from a firm called Ginger, Ltd., Partnership over the last two decades, but in 2006 it was shut down and replaced by a new firm, the report said. The new firm, Ginger Holdings, LLC, is similarly named, but there is no mention of it in Thomas’ records.

In recent years, Thomas reportedly continued to disclose between $50,000 and $100,000 in income from the old firm annually.

Clarence Thomas has been claiming thousands of dollars annually from a shuttered real estate firm (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/16/clarence-thomas-has-been-claiming-thousands-of-dollars-annually-from-a-shuttered-real-estate-firm.html)


My GUESS is his preparers didn't change the name of the company.  It seems odd to claim income that didn't exist.  I don't know why anyone would do it, other than just a paperwork error.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 06:38:18 AM

I imagine I could "do a better job" if I was large and in charge of the US unfettered by all these rules.  One can dream.  I wouldn't want the job of course.

I once followed our VP around for the day.  I didn't want his job either.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 06:49:31 AM

From the NYT today FWIW:

Starting tomorrow, Fox News is scheduled to be on trial (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/newsletter/dYc1RvJGFJKFcV0VNgS-9A~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmH6gSP0TkaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMjAyMy8wNC8xNi9idXNpbmVzcy9tZWRpYS9mb3gtbmV3cy1kb21pbmlvbi10cmlhbC5odG1sP2NhbXBhaWduX2lkPTkmZW1jPWVkaXRfbm5fMjAyMzA0MTcmaW5zdGFuY2VfaWQ9OTAzODAmbmw9dGhlLW1vcm5pbmcmcmVnaV9pZD0xNTMzNjg5MTAmc2VnbWVudF9pZD0xMzA2MjgmdGU9MSZ1c2VyX2lkPThlNWQyYTJiNWU0OGE2OTY1NjE5MmNjM2FmMGE5MDBjVwNueXRCCmQhEiM9ZOTUa5lSEWpjZG9vbTlAZ21haWwuY29tWAQAAAAA). Dominion Voting Systems, which makes voting machines, is suing the cable news network for $1.6 billion. Dominion claims that Fox spread a false conspiracy theory that its machines were rigged against Donald Trump in the 2020 election.

The trial had been set to start today, but the judge overseeing the case announced a one-day delay last night. Fox may be seeking to settle the case before a trial can begin, The Wall Street Journal reported (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/a/TBd70oajqVBUfPhdJktDKw~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmH6gSP4QAAWh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lndzai5jb20vYXJ0aWNsZXMvZm94LW5ld3MtZG9taW5pb24tcHJlcGFyZS1mb3ItYmF0dGxlLWluLTEtNi1iaWxsaW9uLWRlZmFtYXRpb24tdHJpYWwtZmFkMmU5YTY_Y2FtcGFpZ25faWQ9OSZlbWM9ZWRpdF9ubl8yMDIzMDQxNyZpbnN0YW5jZV9pZD05MDM4MCZubD10aGUtbW9ybmluZyZyZWdpX2lkPTE1MzM2ODkxMCZzZWdtZW50X2lkPTEzMDYyOCZ0ZT0xJnVzZXJfaWQ9OGU1ZDJhMmI1ZTQ4YTY5NjU2MTkyY2MzYWYwYTkwMGNXA255dEIKZCESIz1k5NRrmVIRamNkb29tOUBnbWFpbC5jb21YBAAAAAA~).

We have already seen some of the evidence for Dominion’s side. Texts and emails uncovered through the lawsuit show that several of Fox’s executives, hosts and producers privately doubted the claims against Dominion, which were promoted by Trump, but amplified them on the air anyway.

Even with this evidence, Dominion may not have an easy time winning the case because of legal protections for media companies. Those protections were established by a 1964 Supreme Court ruling, New York Times v. Sullivan, based on the First Amendment’s safeguards for freedom of speech and the press. The ruling requires that defamation lawsuits by public figures against media companies prove “actual malice,” meaning that journalists must have known an allegation was false but broadcast it anyway or have acted so recklessly that they overlooked the facts.

“It is an incredibly high bar to prove,” said my colleague Katie Robertson, who is covering the lawsuit.

The case will test whether Fox’s brand of journalism — which includes a long record of spreading falsehoods (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/newsletter/g-vqw-vOV90xha8Kqt1oiw~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmH6gSP0TZaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMjAyMy8wNC8wNi9tYWdhemluZS9mb3gtZG9taW5pb24tamFuLTYuaHRtbD9jYW1wYWlnbl9pZD05JmVtYz1lZGl0X25uXzIwMjMwNDE3Jmluc3RhbmNlX2lkPTkwMzgwJm5sPXRoZS1tb3JuaW5nJnJlZ2lfaWQ9MTUzMzY4OTEwJnNlZ21lbnRfaWQ9MTMwNjI4JnRlPTEmdXNlcl9pZD04ZTVkMmEyYjVlNDhhNjk2NTYxOTJjYzNhZjBhOTAwY1cDbnl0QgpkIRIjPWTk1GuZUhFqY2Rvb205QGdtYWlsLmNvbVgEAAAAAA~~) (such as about where Barack Obama was born) — is legally vulnerable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 06:53:48 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/jZ1eMo8.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 07:23:49 AM

What happens to a crane operator if lighting strkes his crane?

I'm sure they are grounded well, is that sufficient to act like a lightning rod?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 17, 2023, 07:29:49 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 16, 2023, 05:14:09 PM

Maybe the center-right crowd should be called the Apathy Party. 
Heinous lobbying rewarding the few and harming the many?  Shrug.
More kids got shot and killed by semi-automatic weapons?  Shrug.
Humans exacerbate climate change?  Shrug
.
The complicated, nuanced "fix" is simply the will to change things.  The thorough, wide-ranging legistation to forbid the shady outcomes caused by lobbying cannot be changed by apathetic people suggesting it's too complicated.  That's horse shit.

As usual your inaccurate info and lack of self awareness are stunning.   

https://largest.org/people/lobbying-groups/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 07:32:46 AM

Hey, if OAM wants to crusade to end lobbying, fine with me, have at it, count me out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 17, 2023, 07:37:08 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 07:32:46 AM

Hey, if OAM wants to crusade to end lobbying, fine with me, have at it, count me out.

Wouldn’t phase me at all to end it.  But like taxes and death- he is 100%wrong on where the money is coming from and who is benefiting- calling it center right.  🥴

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 07:39:57 AM

I figured the Egg Lobby would be far and away Number One, and they would be far right of course...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 17, 2023, 08:08:44 AM

Soros at #3 doesn't surprise me at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 08:35:46 AM

‘A Real Chilling Effect’: A Lefty Scholar is Dumping CAP — For AEI - POLITICO (https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/07/15/capital-city-ruy-teixeira-american-enterprise-institute-00045819)

Teixeira, for the record, says that’s a massive misreading of the book, which predicted a governing majority based on the assumption that the Democrats could hold a healthy proportion of blue-collar white people, as happened in 2008. But Obama’s first win turned out to be a high-water mark, not a new epoch. Teixeira is in the camp that blames “cultural radicalism” for this failure, saying the noise around things like pronouns and police defunding have made many blue-collar voters think of the party as a bunch of annoying recent liberal-arts graduates.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 17, 2023, 08:45:26 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 17, 2023, 08:08:44 AM

Soros at #3 doesn't surprise me at all.

Fro hasn't mentioned that particular lobbyist as being problematic. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 09:10:59 AM

Live updates: SpaceX readies to launch Starship rocket to space (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/17/spacex-starship-rocket-first-orbital-launch-attempt.html)

Ten minutes left, oops, no launch today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 17, 2023, 09:22:29 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 09:10:59 AM

Live updates: SpaceX readies to launch Starship rocket to space (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/17/spacex-starship-rocket-first-orbital-launch-attempt.html)

Ten minutes left, oops, no launch today.

(https://i.imgur.com/eSVkeQ7.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2023, 09:23:46 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 07:23:49 AM

What happens to a crane operator if lighting strkes his crane?

I'm sure they are grounded well, is that sufficient to act like a lightning rod?

my father was a crane operator back in the day
much more likely to bump a powerline than a lightning strike but similar consequences

yes, the current flows to the ground

hopefully, the operator's seat and controls and pedals/flooring are well insulated

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2023, 09:35:06 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 06:02:48 AM

My GUESS is his preparers didn't change the name of the company.  It seems odd to claim income that didn't exist.  I don't know why anyone would do it, other than just a paperwork error.

perhaps there was income from another source that you'd rather not disclose, but was hard to hide completely, cause you were spending said income.
perhaps you would report it as coming from a "legit" source that didn't exist?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 09:38:24 AM

Possibly, though I think that would be "illegal" as a money washing attempt.  You'd be better off not reporting it at all.  And the tax preparers would usually not go along with that scheme.  Maybe some would.

This is why some drug folks buy some cash business to wash the proceeds and be able to bank the money.

I've seen a few restaurants around that do almost zero business and stay for years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2023, 09:43:17 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 09:38:24 AM

Possibly, though I think that would be "illegal" as a money washing attempt.  You'd be better off not reporting it at all.  And the tax preparers would usually not go along with that scheme.  Maybe some would.

ding, ding, ding!
I have nothing against Thomas, but I really don't like the idea of billionaire $$$ influencing judges

if this is what is happening, I'd like to see it brought out and folks punished 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 17, 2023, 09:53:28 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 06:53:48 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/jZ1eMo8.png)

Unless something has changed, 100 percent of college basketball teams make the playoffs. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 17, 2023, 10:12:00 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on April 17, 2023, 09:53:28 AM

Unless something has changed, 100 percent of college basketball teams make the playoffs.

Is the IVY doing a tournament now?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 10:53:09 AM

Where to Eat and Drink in Midtown Atlanta (eater.com) (https://atlanta.eater.com/maps/best-restaurants-bars-midtown-atlanta)

A decent list, we've tried most of these, and many others we like as well.  They left off some good ones.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2023, 11:01:50 AM

perhaps you should make a list?
You've been published

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 11:06:23 AM

Actually, I have done that, in our building newsletter.

It's a one per week kind of thing I used to do, the current HOA mgr doesn't like to include them so I quit.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2023, 11:07:59 AM

perhaps you should be the current HOA mgr?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 11:11:14 AM

Heaven forbid.  We've bounced around between very good ones who leave, mediocre ones who leave, and the current one we think is awful, and of course she won't leave.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 17, 2023, 11:15:16 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 17, 2023, 11:07:59 AM

perhaps you should be the current HOA mgr?

nope hes already president of the Atlanta Chamber of Commerce

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 17, 2023, 11:53:41 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 17, 2023, 10:12:00 AM

Is the IVY doing a tournament now?

https://ivyleague.com/feature/ivymadness2023

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 17, 2023, 12:05:31 PM

So only their top 4 teams qualify?

4 sit home and watch?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2023, 12:11:22 PM

that's not fair

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 17, 2023, 12:26:58 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 17, 2023, 12:05:31 PM

So only their top 4 teams qualify?

4 sit home and watch?

Yep.

For more teams than used to participate, I suppose. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2023, 04:55:47 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 17, 2023, 09:43:17 AM

ding, ding, ding!
I have nothing against Thomas, but I really don't like the idea of billionaire $$$ influencing judges

Just okay with them influencing congressional members?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 05:00:08 PM

Billionaires have a lot of influence if they choose to exert it, on nearly everything.  And they have myriad ways of effecting said influence.  Sometimes it's a positive influence.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2023, 05:02:19 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 06:49:31 AM

From the NYT today FWIW:

Starting tomorrow, Fox News is scheduled to be on trial (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/newsletter/dYc1RvJGFJKFcV0VNgS-9A~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmH6gSP0TkaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMjAyMy8wNC8xNi9idXNpbmVzcy9tZWRpYS9mb3gtbmV3cy1kb21pbmlvbi10cmlhbC5odG1sP2NhbXBhaWduX2lkPTkmZW1jPWVkaXRfbm5fMjAyMzA0MTcmaW5zdGFuY2VfaWQ9OTAzODAmbmw9dGhlLW1vcm5pbmcmcmVnaV9pZD0xNTMzNjg5MTAmc2VnbWVudF9pZD0xMzA2MjgmdGU9MSZ1c2VyX2lkPThlNWQyYTJiNWU0OGE2OTY1NjE5MmNjM2FmMGE5MDBjVwNueXRCCmQhEiM9ZOTUa5lSEWpjZG9vbTlAZ21haWwuY29tWAQAAAAA). Dominion Voting Systems, which makes voting machines, is suing the cable news network for $1.6 billion. Dominion claims that Fox spread a false conspiracy theory that its machines were rigged against Donald Trump in the 2020 election.

The trial had been set to start today, but the judge overseeing the case announced a one-day delay last night. Fox may be seeking to settle the case before a trial can begin, The Wall Street Journal reported (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/a/TBd70oajqVBUfPhdJktDKw~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmH6gSP4QAAWh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lndzai5jb20vYXJ0aWNsZXMvZm94LW5ld3MtZG9taW5pb24tcHJlcGFyZS1mb3ItYmF0dGxlLWluLTEtNi1iaWxsaW9uLWRlZmFtYXRpb24tdHJpYWwtZmFkMmU5YTY_Y2FtcGFpZ25faWQ9OSZlbWM9ZWRpdF9ubl8yMDIzMDQxNyZpbnN0YW5jZV9pZD05MDM4MCZubD10aGUtbW9ybmluZyZyZWdpX2lkPTE1MzM2ODkxMCZzZWdtZW50X2lkPTEzMDYyOCZ0ZT0xJnVzZXJfaWQ9OGU1ZDJhMmI1ZTQ4YTY5NjU2MTkyY2MzYWYwYTkwMGNXA255dEIKZCESIz1k5NRrmVIRamNkb29tOUBnbWFpbC5jb21YBAAAAAA~).

We have already seen some of the evidence for Dominion’s side. Texts and emails uncovered through the lawsuit show that several of Fox’s executives, hosts and producers privately doubted the claims against Dominion, which were promoted by Trump, but amplified them on the air anyway.

Even with this evidence, Dominion may not have an easy time winning the case because of legal protections for media companies. Those protections were established by a 1964 Supreme Court ruling, New York Times v. Sullivan, based on the First Amendment’s safeguards for freedom of speech and the press. The ruling requires that defamation lawsuits by public figures against media companies prove “actual malice,” meaning that journalists must have known an allegation was false but broadcast it anyway or have acted so recklessly that they overlooked the facts.

“It is an incredibly high bar to prove,” said my colleague Katie Robertson, who is covering the lawsuit.

The case will test whether Fox’s brand of journalism — which includes a long record of spreading falsehoods (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/newsletter/g-vqw-vOV90xha8Kqt1oiw~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmH6gSP0TZaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMjAyMy8wNC8wNi9tYWdhemluZS9mb3gtZG9taW5pb24tamFuLTYuaHRtbD9jYW1wYWlnbl9pZD05JmVtYz1lZGl0X25uXzIwMjMwNDE3Jmluc3RhbmNlX2lkPTkwMzgwJm5sPXRoZS1tb3JuaW5nJnJlZ2lfaWQ9MTUzMzY4OTEwJnNlZ21lbnRfaWQ9MTMwNjI4JnRlPTEmdXNlcl9pZD04ZTVkMmEyYjVlNDhhNjk2NTYxOTJjYzNhZjBhOTAwY1cDbnl0QgpkIRIjPWTk1GuZUhFqY2Rvb205QGdtYWlsLmNvbVgEAAAAAA~~) (such as about where Barack Obama was born) — is legally vulnerable.

So.........when FoxNews is accused of one thing, they yell "editorial new show" in place of "news"........and here they yell "news" to protect them.


You gotta be kidding me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2023, 05:03:38 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 05:00:08 PM

Billionaires have a lot of influence if they choose to exert it, on nearly everything.  And they have myriad ways of effecting said influence.  Sometimes it's a positive influence.

Let's get a scale and put all the money billionaires spend for evil selfish reasons on one side and the philanthropist dollars on the other.
I wonder which way it'll tilt....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2023, 05:05:45 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 17, 2023, 07:29:49 AM

As usual your inaccurate info and lack of self awareness are stunning. 

https://largest.org/people/lobbying-groups/

I don't see how, in any way, this negates what I said.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2023, 05:08:37 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on April 17, 2023, 08:45:26 AM

Fro hasn't mentioned that particular lobbyist as being problematic.

Why would I complain about a group who's focus is "human rights?"  
.
It's so revealing that of a list of 10, you guys pick out that one.  I bet there aren't many mirrors in your houses, are there?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 05:09:38 PM

Have at it, a lot of major philanthropy goes unnoticed by the public.  I see a ton of it around here.  Whatever they do that is completely selfish I don't usually know about.

Either way, "they" can exert a lot of influence, positive or negative, it's inherent.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2023, 05:10:52 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 17, 2023, 07:37:08 AM

Wouldn’t phase me at all to end it.  But like taxes and death- he is 100%wrong on where the money is coming from and who is benefiting- calling it center right.  🥴

I was being kind and calling the crowd here center-right, since NONE of you are far right.  Read words more better.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2023, 05:11:39 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 05:09:38 PM

Have at it, a lot of major philanthropy goes unnoticed by the public.  I see a ton of it around here.  Whatever they do that is completely selfish I don't usually know about.

Either way, "they" can exert a lot of influence, positive or negative, it's inherent.

They shine a spotlight any time they give a dollar to a good cause and yeah, their nefarious selfish dealings are somehow hard to find.
I guess it's just a coincidence. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 05:15:56 PM

A ton of it is anonymous.  We just had a MAJOR gift to our botanical garden that was anonymous.  Many of the donors to the arts center here remain anonymous.  I see that frequently where I live.  The corporate donations are featured big time of course.

Arthur Blank does put his name on various and sundry pretty often.  But it's a large donation.

Announcing the Arthur M. Blank Hospital | Children's Healthcare of Atlanta (choa.org) (https://www.choa.org/give/updates/news/arthur-m-blank-hospital-naming)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on April 17, 2023, 08:09:48 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2023, 05:08:37 PM

Why would I complain about a group who's focus is "human rights?" 
.
It's so revealing that of a list of 10, you guys pick out that one.  I bet there aren't many mirrors in your houses, are there?

Were you wearing your bright orange clown wig when you typed that? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 18, 2023, 07:59:16 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2023, 05:08:37 PM

Why would I complain about a group who's focus is "human rights?" 

I picked that one because I see what his chosen DA's are doing to cities all over my country - including the death of my hometown.

BTW teach... whose.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2023, 08:27:35 AM

It's pretty convenient (and facile) to demonize the super wealthy.  It's common to do so.  I have no particular affection for them either, but also no particular hatred.  I actually know one such person quite well, she's my wife's closest friend.  I've seen what she does for her community, in secret.  I'm also aware she has personal troubles pretty much like we all do.  Wealth can't buy your way out of those often as not.

At any rate, they have influence, should they choose to exert it.  We can moan about it, but it won't change.  We can moan about the Egg Lobby too if somehow we think that does something useful.

I've long though that career politicians thrive, not on money, but on power and recognition.  (They get the money anyway.)  Why would 70+ year olds who are reasonably well off still run for office?  Hmmm.  They don't need the money, they could be enjoying their later years, but they run for office anyway.

Maybe they feel they are doing a public service.  Or more probably, they realize if they retire, they become near nothings in Life.  The can't walk into a resturant and "be noticed".  It's status.  They're important.  And sure, if they retire, some folks will point and say "She used to be SotH" or whatever.  But most of their "importance" and stature will be reduced to "What's your handicap?".

My boss, one of the few good ones, told me this as he retired.  He went from being "important" (in our small pond) to being just another wealthy golfer.  He was fine with it.

So am I, I'm not as wealthy, but I'm OK ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2023, 08:37:33 AM

Fox-Dominion trial set to begin as judge asks if network withheld evidence | Fox News Video (https://www.foxnews.com/video/6325215565112)

I found this interesting, how Fox News is covering this story.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2023, 08:41:47 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/WCtjtuj.png)

This reminds me of the fanciful beer name, "Responsibly" ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 18, 2023, 08:46:31 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 18, 2023, 08:41:47 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/WCtjtuj.png)

This reminds me of the fanciful beer name, "Responsibly" ...

That rules.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 18, 2023, 11:22:38 AM

We've flown SW exactly one time and won't be doing it again.

Breaking: Southwest Airlines Grounded Every US Flight Tuesday Morning (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/breaking-southwest-airlines-grounded-every-us-flight-tuesday-morning/ar-AA1a0Loc?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=7b66432bec7742b8b6cacbcdc0749ba2&ei=9)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 18, 2023, 11:25:20 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 18, 2023, 11:22:38 AM

We've flown SW exactly one time and won't be doing it again.

Breaking: Southwest Airlines Grounded Every US Flight Tuesday Morning (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/breaking-southwest-airlines-grounded-every-us-flight-tuesday-morning/ar-AA1a0Loc?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=7b66432bec7742b8b6cacbcdc0749ba2&ei=9)

sounds like they got hacked

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 18, 2023, 12:38:34 PM

I've flown SW twice in the past 6 months
no issues
and my golf clubs fly free

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 18, 2023, 12:50:52 PM

This stinks.

LOBBYING IN WISCONSIN: From the Milwaukee Brewers to realtors, the Koch network to Planned Parenthood, some lobbying groups in Wisconsin have been very active recently. Here’s a breakdown on who’s doing what. - The Badger Project (https://thebadgerproject.org/2023/04/18/lobbying-in-wisconsin-from-the-milwaukee-brewers-to-realtors-the-koch-network-to-planned-parenthood-lobbying-groups-in-wisconsin-have-had-an-active-couple-years-heres-a-breakdown-on/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 18, 2023, 12:51:19 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 18, 2023, 12:38:34 PM

I've flown SW twice in the past 6 months
no issues
and my golf clubs fly free

SW took my clubs to St Louis once and returned them to me 2 days later

that was free too

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2023, 01:24:11 PM

EXCLUSIVE: $1 billion arena with development bigger than the Battery proposed in north metro – WSB-TV Channel 2 - Atlanta (wsbtv.com) (https://www.wsbtv.com/sports/exclusive-1-billion-arena-with-development-bigger-than-battery-proposed-forsyth-county/J2R2TVK2NVHOVBDT6WAQKBY3VE/?utm_campaign=trueAnthem_manual&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR20dD9umqCeCbREQV80A9UEX25dfC1RQVRrjx5AqDr9W164aLCNF9c9WPs)

I am all astonishment.  They want a hockey team.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 18, 2023, 01:39:02 PM

steal a team from Ohio

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 18, 2023, 01:39:51 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 18, 2023, 01:24:11 PM

EXCLUSIVE: $1 billion arena with development bigger than the Battery proposed in north metro – WSB-TV Channel 2 - Atlanta (wsbtv.com) (https://www.wsbtv.com/sports/exclusive-1-billion-arena-with-development-bigger-than-battery-proposed-forsyth-county/J2R2TVK2NVHOVBDT6WAQKBY3VE/?utm_campaign=trueAnthem_manual&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR20dD9umqCeCbREQV80A9UEX25dfC1RQVRrjx5AqDr9W164aLCNF9c9WPs)

I am all astonishment.  They want a hockey team.

they obviously have too much money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2023, 01:43:10 PM

I sense the only kind of "boon" this could be for Forsyth County ends with the word "doggle".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2023, 04:09:38 PM

Fox News-Dominion case was settled, last second, terms not yet known.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 18, 2023, 04:41:44 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 18, 2023, 04:09:38 PM

Fox News-Dominion case was settled, last second, terms not yet known.

Fox News Defamation Trial Over As Jury Votes In Favor Of Dominion 138,000 To 1 | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/jury-votes-in-favor-of-dominion-1380000-to-1)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 18, 2023, 05:42:21 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 18, 2023, 04:41:44 PM

Fox News Defamation Trial Over As Jury Votes In Favor Of Dominion 138,000 To 1 | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/jury-votes-in-favor-of-dominion-1380000-to-1)

😂😂😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on April 18, 2023, 08:35:46 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 18, 2023, 12:38:34 PM

I've flown SW twice in the past 6 months
no issues
and my golf clubs fly free

I am flying SW tomorrow, hoepefully no problems

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 19, 2023, 12:52:16 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 18, 2023, 04:09:38 PM

Fox News-Dominion case was settled, last second, terms not yet known.

[color=var(--theme-headline__text-color)]Fox News settles with Dominion at the last second, pays more than $787 million to avert defamation trial over its 2020 election lies.

[/color]Fair and balanced.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 19, 2023, 01:28:58 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on April 18, 2023, 08:35:46 PM

I am flying SW tomorrow, hoepefully no problems

I have flown SW all but once in the past decade, and have only once had a problem.  Granted that problem was a 3:00 flight from Denver to Pittsburgh, when I was already losing two hours on a Sunday, getting pushed back to 10:00, and throwing an entire high school band with their instruments on the flight.  But, it's gone worse for people.

The one time I didn't, I flew Delta, then paid to move my flight up.  That flight was delayed by an hour, and they comped.me almost the amount I paid to move my flight up, and gave me access to their sky lounge.

I think SW is a flying bus.  It's the cheapest decent option, and as long as everything is smooth, the savings are well worth the lack of perks.  But as soon as anything goes wrong, don't expect them to care.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 19, 2023, 01:29:24 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 19, 2023, 12:52:16 AM

[color=var(--theme-headline__text-color)]Fox News settles with Dominion at the last second, pays more than $787 million to avert defamation trial over its 2020 election lies.

[/color]Fair and balanced.

No wonder Rupert called off his engagement 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 06:59:14 AM

It's a bit striking to me, not shocking, how the Fox News Talking Heads appeared to know what they were spewing was nonsense, but did it anyway for ratings because they knew it's what their clientel wanted to hear.  I doubt that is unique to FN, but in this case it's pretty obvious.  I doubt viewers much care, and their web site has this short item about this case.

FOX News Media, Dominion Voting Systems reach agreement over defamation lawsuit | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/media/fox-news-media-dominion-voting-systems-reach-agreement-over-defamation-lawsuit)

There are more cases to come obviously.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 07:31:58 AM

Fox's $787 million settlement won't restore damage to US democracy | CNN Politics (https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/19/politics/election-lies-fox-settlement/index.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2023, 07:34:37 AM

If only we were supposed to be a democracy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 07:42:50 AM

Folks use the term broadly, which is fine with me.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 07:48:35 AM

India's population is on the brink of overtaking China's, UN says (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/19/indias-population-is-on-the-brink-of-overtaking-chinas-un-says.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 19, 2023, 08:24:16 AM

Raising awareness of election fraud possibilities may not ruin the country 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 08:31:56 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 19, 2023, 08:24:16 AM

Raising awareness of election fraud possibilities may not ruin the country

And they can do this if they don't blame a specific company for that without evidence.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 19, 2023, 08:47:22 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 19, 2023, 08:24:16 AM

Raising awareness of election fraud possibilities may not ruin the country

Pretending it’s there to soothe feelings ain’t an ideal outcome. Though some feelings will be soothed. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 08:51:37 AM

This case is about defamation, obviously, specific to one company (so far).  One can speculate about anything, but you get on thin ice when you fault one company for a misdeed without evidence and with malice, knowing it's false.

Smartmatic likely will settle soon with FN, and I expect everyone else Dominion has sued will settle in time.  This is a real windfall for Dominion, I don't think they earn anything near what this will give them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 19, 2023, 09:19:43 AM

FNC and Rupert walk off scot free.

Throw enough money at the problem and it goes away. It's the American way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 09:21:14 AM

Yeah, I'm guessing they could have run a few one hour "retraction" programs or somesuch and gotten a much lower figure, but that would alienate their audience.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 19, 2023, 10:06:34 AM

FN deserves it.  They need to wise up and not have emails showing they know what they are Peddling is factually not true.  They need to learn from CNN and MSNBC etc.

You can tell repeated lies every single night like CNN and MSNBC do, but because it’s “speculation”. - you can continue to get away with it.

I could spend hours giving specific examples, but

- MSNBC and CNN saying on air that Brett Kavanaugh is a serial rapist

-saying the Steele Dossier is legit

- saying there is no proof it was funded by Hillary( talk about damage to election process!)

-Covid, origins, mask efficacy, vaccine efficacy - all kinds of things they knew were false. 

- Hunter’s laptop is Russian disinformation 

News media is laughable. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 10:20:07 AM

A "news" outfit can indeed spew lies nightly, but if their lies harm another company or person, they may be held liable.  The bar is higher for a person in the public eye than just a person.

It's really up to "us" as consumers to find credible news and avoid those that peddle lies and silliness.  Unfortunately, most folks prefer the lies they like to the truth they don't want to hear.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2023, 12:07:55 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 11:52:03 AM

Definition of what’s an 'assault weapon' is a very contentious issue (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/21/definition-of-whats-an-assault-weapon-is-a-very-contentious-issue.html)

The 1994 federal assault weapons ban, officially known as the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, was passed as a crime-fighting bill and identified more than a dozen specific models of firearms, including the Colt AR-15 (https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/103/hr4296/text), that were defined as semi-automatic assault weapons. It also defined the term by specific characteristics, such as the ability to accept a detachable magazine and by certain cosmetic features.

They were defined as having two or more features like a bayonet mount of pistol grip etc.  Anyway, another topic.

The problem with this is that the clowns who write these definitions don't have a clue on the subject. The director of ATF has never owned or fired a weapon. Just yesterday he could not explain what an AR actually is.


AR does not stand for "assault rifle."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 12:18:12 PM

One problem IMHO is folks advocating for gun regulations often don't know anything about guns and crime (see above).

It helps to know what type of firearm is used most often, by far, in gun crimes (including homicides/murders and suicides).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on April 19, 2023, 12:19:32 PM

There's about 12K deaths due to drunk driving per year in the US.   Deaths from "weapons of war" are a tiny fraction of that.  Haven't heard anyone suggest banning cars or alcohol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 12:21:48 PM

A bad actor with a shotgun can kill a lot of folks in a school or nightclub.

Rifles, of all types, are infrequently used to commit crimes, for obvious reasons.  So, if somehow they all disappeared, the crime statistics would barely budge.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on April 19, 2023, 12:26:58 PM

More deaths per year from fentanyl ODs than deaths suffered in WW2.  And nothing but political BS out of DC in response

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on April 19, 2023, 12:30:06 PM

One common denominator in these mass shootings, besides certain politicians calling for gun control before the bodies are cold, is mental disease of the perp.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 12:30:59 PM

Politicians obvious pander to the voters, who often are poorly informed on an issue.  "Banning assault weapons" is popular, according to polls, so they do it.

It's similar to doing "something" about climate change, also popular in polls.  Getting rid ot the Electoral College is also popular.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2023, 12:50:30 PM

My wife had foot surgery a little less than 3 weeks ago. We went to CVS, Walgreens and other places to get her Rx filled. None of them would fill it. It was Oxycodone. Probably related to that lawsuit a couple/few years back.

Finally got it filled at Publix, of all places.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 12:53:36 PM

When I had my shoulder surgery, the doc prescribed 44 oxy pills.  I took one.  It stopped me up pretty bad in terms of defecation.  We usually use CVS, but that was in 2020 as I recall, dimly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2023, 12:57:47 PM

Duralax helps with that problem... TMI

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 19, 2023, 01:27:24 PM

That's "other news"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 01:33:02 PM

Just about everything is, really.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 19, 2023, 01:40:18 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on April 19, 2023, 12:26:58 PM

More deaths per year from fentanyl ODs than deaths suffered in WW2.  And nothing but political BS out of DC in response

Based on some quick research, I don’t think that is numerically correct.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 01:43:15 PM

Drug Overdose Death Rates | National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) (nih.gov) (https://nida.nih.gov/research-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates)

(https://i.imgur.com/F2Wi0nA.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/u6w53MY.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 01:46:55 PM

U.S. opioid crisis hit a deadly peak in 2022 but also perhaps a turning point : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2022/12/31/1145797684/2022-was-a-deadly-but-hopeful-year-in-americas-opioid-crisis)

She's been addicted to opioids for 18 years and prefers heroin, but says fentanyl is now the only drug street dealers are offering.


I had not realized that fentanyl has, according to this, largely replaced heroin et al. on the street.

Should we make it legal and try and control distribution?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 01:58:57 PM

Fox News-Dominion Voting Systems lawsuit: Biggest winner is private equity firm Staple Street Capital - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fox-news-dominion-voting-systems-lawsuit-settlement-staple-street-private-equity/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 02:07:06 PM

The A-10’s most fearsome weapon is its gigantic GAU-8 Avenger 30mm cannon. It has 7 barrels and fires aluminum shells crossed with depleted uranium at either 2,100 or 4,200 rounds per minute, which can precisely strike within an area of 30 feet at a range of 6,000 feet. Its magazine has a capacity of 1,174 rounds, meaning it can continuously fire with intensity for 18.06 seconds.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 19, 2023, 02:09:01 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 01:46:55 PM

Should we make it legal and try and control distribution?

since it's 50 times more potent than heroin, maybe a dangerous proposition

Carfentanil is a synthetic opioid approximately 10,000 times more potent than morphine and 100 times
more potent than fentanyl. 
The presence of carfentanil in illicit U.S. drug markets is cause for concern, as
the relative strength of this drug could lead to an increase in overdoses and overdose-related deaths, even among opioid-tolerant users.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 02:12:12 PM

Sure, but maybe it's better if folks get it in a controlled dose from a licensed outlet at a price that undercuts the mob ... and then proceeds go to drug rehab programs.

Dunno.  Seems like it is widely available now.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 19, 2023, 02:16:58 PM

[img width=500 height=280.996]https://i.imgur.com/U9oiK9R.jpg[/img]


a controlled dose isn't much
On the left, a lethal dose of heroin; on the right, a lethal dose of fentanyl.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2023, 02:21:04 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 01:46:55 PM

Should we make it legal and try and control distribution?

Absolutely not. We need to cut off the supply.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2023, 02:22:32 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 19, 2023, 01:40:18 PM

Based on some quick research, I don’t think that is numerically correct.

I think it is, based on the charts posted above and the 2022 numbers given in a post below it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 19, 2023, 02:36:26 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2023, 02:21:04 PM

Absolutely not. We need to cut off the supply.

shit is extremely deadly

Carfentanil, or 4-carbomethosfentanyl (brand name Widnil), was developed in China in 1974, and carries the DEA Schedule II classification. Its only legitimate use is as a veterinary sedative for very large animals.

Carfentanil is a white powdery substance that impacts the central nervous system, dramatically slowing the respiratory and nervous systems. It is also available in tablet form. Just 2mg of this deadly drug, about the weight of 35 grains of salt, can cause death in humans, who usually are not aware that they have ingested it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 02:40:35 PM

I don't think cutting off supply is really possible, or practicable.  It's too easy to smuggle.  And it's making bad actors very wealthy.

Fentanyl and major fentanyl analogs. Fentanyl is an extremely powerful analgesic, 50–100-times more potent than morphine. Its LD₅₀ is of 3.1 mg/kg in rats and 0.03 mg/kg in monkeys. The LD₅₀ in humans is unknown.

If we figure 1 mg/kg in humans, and an average human weighs say 80 kg, geesh, it's a smidgen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2023, 02:55:19 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 19, 2023, 02:36:26 PM

shit is extremely deadly

Carfentanil, or 4-carbomethosfentanyl (brand name Widnil), was developed in China in 1974, and carries the DEA Schedule II classification. Its only legitimate use is as a veterinary sedative for very large animals.

Carfentanil is a white powdery substance that impacts the central nervous system, dramatically slowing the respiratory and nervous systems. It is also available in tablet form. Just 2mg of this deadly drug, about the weight of 35 grains of salt, can cause death in humans, who usually are not aware that they have ingested it.

Of course it was.

And that's where it's coming from today, through Mexico. It's a very bad problem. Cutting off the supply is a lot of layers and complicated. It might be too late.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 02:58:36 PM

Oddly enough, it's Schedule 2 while MJ is Schedule 1.  (This is mostly because fentanyl has some therapeutic value.)

The Fentanyl Story (jpain.org) (https://www.jpain.org/article/S1526-5900(14)00905-5/pdf)


F entanyl (Fig 1), a potent synthetic m receptor–stimulating opioid, was first synthesized by Dr. Paul Janssen and the Janssen Company of Beerse, Belgium, in December 1960.45,46 The drug was first used as an intravenous analgesic clinically in Europe in 1963 and in the United States (as a component of Innovar) in 1968 and since then has become one of the world’s most important and frequently used opioid analgesics. Today, fentanyl is the opioid most often used intravenously for intraoperative analgesia in the United States, the rest of North America, Central and South America, throughout Europe, the Middle East, and most of developed Asia and Africa. In some of the world, the fentanyl patch is often used for the chronic pain of all forms of cancer as well as the persistent, intense pain from many noncancerous maladies.45,46 In the last 20 years, more than a half dozen rapid-onset transmucosal fentanyl preparations have been developed, approved, launched, and popularized for ‘‘breakthrough’’ pain syndromes.46 Few physicians practicing anesthesia or managing all sorts of patients with chronic pain with the many fentanyl preparations now available appreciate how and why this compound has become so widely used in anesthesiology and is so valuable in the management of pain throughout much of the world

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 19, 2023, 03:07:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2023, 02:22:32 PM

I think it is, based on the charts posted above and the 2022 numbers given in a post below it.

I see overall topping at 80k. That includes heroine. 

The US lost 400,000 in WWII

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2023, 03:22:04 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 19, 2023, 03:07:07 PM

I see overall topping at 80k. That includes heroine.

The US lost 400,000 in WWII

110,000 died last year alone. How many is it too many? When does something get done to fix it? And who does that fixing?

That chart is not a running total FYI. It's number of deaths by year.


Are fentanyl overdose deaths rising in the US? (usafacts.org) (https://usafacts.org/articles/are-fentanyl-overdose-deaths-rising-in-the-us/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 03:28:44 PM

I don't think much of anything will get done in reality.  Government programs will of course throw money around.  This stuff is too easy to make and way to easy to smuggle and distribute.  And their market is "hooked" until they die.

It appears to be cutting down on heroin use anyway.  Not really good news.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 03:36:06 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 03:28:44 PM

I don't think much of anything will get done in reality.  Government programs will of course throw money around.  This stuff is too easy to make and way to easy to smuggle and distribute.  And their market is "hooked" until they die.

It appears to be cutting down on heroin use anyway.  Not really good news.

we could try shutting down the southern border

which is where the majority comes from

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 03:37:48 PM

Nearly all of it comes in at legal border crossings.  I don't think it's practicable to shut those down.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 19, 2023, 03:38:11 PM

I'd start there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 03:42:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 03:37:48 PM

Nearly all of it comes in at legal border crossings.  I don't think it's practicable to shut those down.

wait you know that its coming in at legal border crossings

wow youre connected

anyway shutting down the border means just that which includes all crossings

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 03:55:38 PM

It is widely reported it comes in through legal crossings, which makes sense to me.  It's a pain to bring weight across by foot elsewhere, and rather pointless, as it's not going to be detected by BP in a car anyway one time in a hundred.  And I don't think it realistic to close the border entirely.

And I suspect if somehow we did, it'd  get here by boat or plane.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 04:06:48 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 03:55:38 PM

It is widely reported it comes in through legal crossings, which makes sense to me.  It's a pain to bring weight across by foot elsewhere, and rather pointless, as it's not going to be detected by BP in a car anyway one time in a hundred.  And I don't think it realistic to close the border entirely.

And I suspect if somehow we did, it'd  get here by boat or plane.

one of the biggest mistakes this administration has made is taking the pressure off Mexico to police its side of the border for both illegals and drugs

your logic is amazing

we cant lock down the border cause it would be inconvenient

to who the cartel or the illegals or both

lets lock it down first and then figure out what is necessary and not necessary

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 04:11:51 PM

I stated I do not think it is practical nor realistic to shut the border down.  It's not going to happen, no matter who we elect President, any more than we'd ban Muslims from coming into the US.

There is so much money to be made on small quantities of this stuff it would find its way in by other means anyway.  How many containers are imported each day and how well are they checked for much of anything?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 19, 2023, 04:23:36 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2023, 12:07:55 PM

The problem with this is that the clowns who write these definitions don't have a clue on the subject. The director of ATF has never owned or fired a weapon. Just yesterday he could not explain what an AR actually is.


AR does not stand for "assault rifle."

Also, the term Assault Weapon is NOT an industry term and is in fact just a made up term invented to scare people. Whenever that term appears in legislation, it is a sure sign that those writing said legislation, know NOTHING about firearms.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 19, 2023, 04:26:01 PM

making it more difficult rather than less difficult to perform illegal acts seems to be the right thing to do, regardless how practical it would be to eliminate something completely

no sense in putting up a wall on the border cause someone will build a tunnel under it or scale over it.

deterrents don't completely stop something, but many times are proven to reduce numbers

which is good 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 19, 2023, 04:28:30 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 19, 2023, 04:23:36 PM

Also, the term Assault Weapon is NOT an industry term and is in fact just a made up term invented to scare people. Whenever that term appears in legislation, it is a sure sign that those writing said legislation, know NOTHING about firearms.

Ed Zachery


fully automatic weapons have been illegal for a long time

I don't think semi-auto has any chance of being made illegal

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 04:29:20 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 19, 2023, 04:26:01 PM

making it more difficult rather than less difficult to perform illegal acts seems to be the right thing to do, regardless how practical it would be to eliminate something completely

no sense in putting up a wall on the border cause someone will build a tunnel under it or scale over it.

deterrents don't completely stop something, but many times are proven to reduce numbers

which is good

currently its open season on our southern border with very little effort from Washington to improve the situation

why would we allow the drug cartel a free reign

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 04:30:37 PM

The cartels have free reign now in effect, and will continue to have it no matter who gets elected to what.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 04:38:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 04:30:37 PM

The cartels have free reign now in effect, and will continue to have it no matter who gets elected to what.

thats your opinion and thank God not shared by folks who will be our next President

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 19, 2023, 04:40:00 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 03:42:32 PM

wait you know that its coming in at legal border crossings

wow youre connected

anyway shutting down the border means just that which includes all crossings

Ahh, so it doesn't matter how many people we hurt that have legitimate reasons to cross the border. Let's just say "screw you" to law-abiding people who have done nothing wrong at all, to solve a problem that they have nothing to do with. 

How is that different from banning guns from ALL citizens (even the law-abiding people who have done nothing wrong) in order to solve the nation's mass shooting problem? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 04:49:16 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 19, 2023, 04:40:00 PM

Ahh, so it doesn't matter how many people we hurt that have legitimate reasons to cross the border. Let's just say "screw you" to law-abiding people who have done nothing wrong at all, to solve a problem that they have nothing to do with.

How is that different from banning guns from ALL citizens (even the law-abiding people who have done nothing wrong) in order to solve the nation's mass shooting problem?

closing our border does not violate a constitutional right 

banning guns in the US does

news flash non citizens do not have a right to come to the US 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 04:57:49 PM

I was thinking of the volume of trade across the border.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 19, 2023, 04:59:53 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 04:49:16 PM

closing our border does not violate a constitutional right

banning guns in the US does

news flash non citizens do not have a right to come to the US

Take the 2A out of it for a second. Even if there was no 2A, would it be an acceptable argument to ban guns from law-abiding people, who may want them for sport, or need them for personal protection, because some bad apples commit crimes with them? 

Oh and BTW not all Southern border crossings are by people who are not US citizens. There are plenty of legitimate reasons for our own citizens to cross. Shutting down all crossings stops them too. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 05:03:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 04:57:49 PM

I was thinking of the volume of trade across the border.

yes thats the pressure we were using to force Mexico to enforce restrictions on both drugs and illegals

under Brandon this was very quickly done away with 

we should only allow steady trade if Mexico does what it should do

we allow trade to cross the border with increased security 

maybe we could relocated some of the 80,000 IRS employees to beef up border security

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 05:07:52 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 19, 2023, 04:59:53 PM

Take the 2A out of it for a second. Even if there was no 2A, would it be an acceptable argument to ban guns from law-abiding people, who may want them for sport, or need them for personal protection, because some bad apples commit crimes with them?

The answer is no to banning guns and the Founding Fathers also agreed with this

Oh and BTW not all Southern border crossings are by people who are not US citizens. There are plenty of legitimate reasons for our own citizens to cross. Shutting down all crossings stops them too.

 of course there would be allowances made however there would not be the addition of millions of illegals to our country and the flow of drugs would be adversely affected

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 05:15:03 PM

maybe instead of using the words shut down I should have used the word secured instead

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 19, 2023, 05:17:25 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 05:15:03 PM

maybe instead of using the words shut down I should have used the word secured instead

Ok, that's fair. IMHO there can be things done that could make our border more secure. But shutting it down to ALL crossings is in my opinion harmful, and immoral.

Especially since I don't think it would put as much as dent in the drug problem, which is a demand-side problem. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 05:23:25 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 19, 2023, 05:17:25 PM

Ok, that's fair. IMHO there can be things done that could make our border more secure. But shutting it down to ALL crossings is in my opinion harmful, and immoral.

Especially since I don't think it would put as much as dent in the drug problem, which is a demand-side problem.

Hard to really know how much difference a secure border would make with the drug flow but if we could save just one life it would be worth it

right now we have a President who cares more about letting transgender boys compete with girls then he does about the southern border

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 19, 2023, 05:40:57 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 05:23:25 PM

Hard to really know how much difference a secure border would make with the drug flow but if we could save just one life it would be worth it

Well, I've heard a lot of people say that we need to secure the border, but so far I haven't exactly heard a definition of exactly what that means. 

If a secure border is that every single car coming across legally is searched extensively for 2 hours, that would be needlessly intrusive on law-abiding people, would require such extensive manpower as to be prohibitive, and would destroy trade and economic activity that is enabled by reasonably-efficient border crossings. 

So there has to be a balance. 

Traffic deaths would be tremendously curtailed if we made the national speed limit 5 mph, but we don't do that. Because it's ridiculous and not worth it, even though it would save tens of thousands of lives every year. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 19, 2023, 06:01:29 PM

most of us would simply like a balance

there doesn't seem to be a balance currently

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 06:20:47 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 19, 2023, 06:01:29 PM

most of us would simply like a balance

there doesn't seem to be a balance currently

hard to achieve balance when nothing is on the scale

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 19, 2023, 06:22:28 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 19, 2023, 06:01:29 PM

most of us would simply like a balance

there doesn't seem to be a balance currently

I'm not sure I buy that. People see things that they don't like and the desired balance is always "less". But it's entirely possible there's already a balance. 

I'm reminded of meeting with the caterer in preparation for the reception with my now ex-wife. My soon to be MIL was worried that if we had an open bar, people would take advantage and get hammered. 

The caterer basically said that open bar or cash bar, 20% of the guests wouldn't drink. Open bar or cash bar, 60% of the guests would have an appropriate amount of alcohol. Open bar or cash bar, 20% would get drunk. It seems that there are more intrinsic factors in behavior than whether folks have to pay for their drinks. 

The truth is that a certain percentage of people like getting f&@^#d up, whether it's alcohol, or drugs, or whatever. That demand will NEVER go away completely. And they'll find a way to get what they want. We can't even keep drugs out of prisons. You think "border security" is going to keep them out of the country? Some of these drugs, anyone with a chemistry set can produce. Are we going to outlaw chemistry? (Or tightly regulate it, like Texas (https://www.dps.texas.gov/section/precursor-chemical-and-laboratory-apparatus)?) Doesn't seem to be stopping drugs. 

In fact, everything that we've done to stop heroin has caused the much more dangerous--and much easier to conceal--fentanyl to proliferate. 

"Securing the border" isn't going to change that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 06:32:03 PM

right now the drug cartels have a free reign 

Im not suggesting we could completely rub it out but we could damn sure make it harder to get drugs into this country

In short the drug cartels feel little heat from anyone

we should change that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 19, 2023, 06:33:38 PM

you're correct

even an air tight southern border won't stop drug problems in the US

but, border security measures that deter and slow down the worst illegal crap coming across the border would help

if you simply look at the total number of illegals entering today and in the past year compared to the previous decade, there doesn't seem to be much deterrent and it's easy to imagine the worst illegal crap is getting more common 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 06:40:11 PM

Has anything changed vis a vis coming through legal check points?  If most of the drugs come through that way ...

I've done it once on the ground, from Canada, it was a one hour wait.  They didn't search the car or anything, but there was a line of cars to get in.  I've of course done it many times flying.

If I can put fentanyl packs inside my tires, for example, and get through the legal border crossing, I'm not going to bother crossing elsewhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 19, 2023, 06:53:30 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 06:32:03 PM

right now the drug cartels have a free reign

Im not suggesting we could completely rub it out but we could damn sure make it harder to get drugs into this country

In short the drug cartels feel little heat from anyone

we should change that

How? Do you have concrete steps that would be taken? That would be effective? 

Quote from: FearlessF on April 19, 2023, 06:33:38 PM

you're correct

even an air tight southern border won't stop drug problems in the US

but, border security measures that deter and slow down the worst illegal crap coming across the border would help

if you simply look at the total number of illegals entering today and in the past year compared to the previous decade, there doesn't seem to be much deterrent and it's easy to imagine the worst illegal crap is getting more common

Ok, so what do we do? Increase searches of incoming vehicles from 1 in 100 to 3 in 100? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 06:57:19 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/Ch10cbu.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 19, 2023, 07:00:08 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 19, 2023, 06:53:30 PM

How? Do you have concrete steps that would be taken? That would be effective?
Ok, so what do we do? Increase searches of incoming vehicles from 1 in 100 to 3 in 100?

Just curious. Why do you keep talking about vehicles. All of the data suggests that the overwhelming majority of illegal border crossings including those who make it in those who are apprehended are on foot and not at ports of entry.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 07:02:25 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 19, 2023, 06:53:30 PM

How? Do you have concrete steps that would be taken? That would be effective?
Ok, so what do we do? Increase searches of incoming vehicles from 1 in 100 to 3 in 100?

I would get Mexico on board with drug enforcement by threatening to cut commerce

Increase border enforcement personnel

reduce the flow of illegals by sending them back to their country
word would get out and there would be fewer attempts

quit doing catch and release

random checks on all traffic

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 07:03:58 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 19, 2023, 07:00:08 PM

Just curious. Why do you keep talking about vehicles. All of the data suggests that the overwhelming majority of illegal border crossings including those who make it in those who are apprehended are on foot and not at ports of entry.

We're discussing how fentanyl gets into the US, not illegals.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 07:05:16 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 19, 2023, 07:00:08 PM

Just curious. Why do you keep talking about vehicles. All of the data suggests that the overwhelming majority of illegal border crossings including those who make it in those who are apprehended are on foot and not at ports of entry.

yep none of this crossing the river crap

back they go

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 07:05:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 07:03:58 PM

We're discussing how fentanyl gets into the US, not illegals.

actually they are kinda intertwined 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 07:05:59 PM

Greg Abbott’s new border security plan spurs worries about local economy | The Texas Tribune (https://www.texastribune.org/2022/04/07/texas-border-security-economic-impact/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 19, 2023, 07:10:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 07:03:58 PM

We're discussing how fentanyl gets into the US, not illegals.

Oh.  I didn’t know the Fentanyl was crossing the border on it’s own.    :banghead:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 07:12:41 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 07:05:59 PM

Greg Abbott’s new border security plan spurs worries about local economy | The Texas Tribune (https://www.texastribune.org/2022/04/07/texas-border-security-economic-impact/)

considering this article is a year old there must not have been too much a problem cause the plan has been in action for a year

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 07:19:32 PM

Sure, and they really aren't doing much at all.  It's a fig leaf.  Maybe they check a few trucks a day somewhere.  Maybe not even that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 07:20:47 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 06:57:19 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/Ch10cbu.png)

CD when and where was this taken

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 07:21:51 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 07:19:32 PM

Sure, and they really aren't doing much at all.  It's a fig leaf.  Maybe they check a few trucks a day somewhere.  Maybe not even that.

and the drug cartel knows this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 19, 2023, 07:27:51 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 19, 2023, 07:00:08 PM

Just curious. Why do you keep talking about vehicles. All of the data suggests that the overwhelming majority of illegal border crossings including those who make it in those who are apprehended are on foot and not at ports of entry.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdca/pr/fentanyl-seizures-border-continue-spike-making-san-diego-national-epicenter-fentanyl

Quote

NEWS RELEASE SUMMARY – August 12, 2022
SAN DIEGO – More deadly fentanyl is being seized by border officials in San Diego and Imperial counties than at any of the nation’s 300-plus ports of entry, making this federal district an epicenter for fentanyl trafficking into the United States.

In the first nine months of FY 2022 (October through June), U.S. Customs and Border Protection law enforcement agencies in San Diego and Imperial counties (CBP Field Operations and Border Patrol) seized 5,091 pounds of fentanyl – which amounts to about 60 percent of the 8,425 pounds of fentanyl seized around the entire country. Click here (https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics) for CBP and Border Patrol statistics. 

These fentanyl seizures in San Diego by CBP include land ports of entry at San Ysidro, Otay Mesa, Tecate, Andrade and Calexico. Seizures by Border Patrol stations within the San Diego Sector include Imperial Beach, Chula Vista, Brown Field, El Cajon, Campo, Boulevard, San Clemente and Murietta.  In addition, seizures by the Border Patrol in the Imperial Valley include El Centro and Calexico.

Mexican cartels are increasingly manufacturing fentanyl for distribution and sale in the United States Precursors are imported from China and other countries and then pressed into pills, powder or mixed into other drugs at massive, industrial-scale labs.

Undocumented immigrants who want to come and work might brave land crossing away from land ports of entry. But it's hard to carry 100# of fentanyl AND traverse a desert land crossing in the wilderness. So if you're talking about drug trafficking, you probably want larger hauls, requiring vehicles. 

BTW those patrol stations I bolded are inland. I have to go through the San Clemente checkpoint every time I come north from San Diego to Orange County. Only rarely is that checkpoint actually staffed and stopping people from rolling through at 80 mph. And in every time that checkpoint has been staffed and looking at drivers, I (a while middle-aged male) am always waved through without so much as them wanting me to roll down my window. 

So there are TONS of ways to fly under the radar. Not to say that we should take much from fiction, but if Bryan Cranston / Walter White was driving through that checkpoint, he'd absolutely NEVER get stopped. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 07:53:12 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 19, 2023, 07:27:51 PM

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdca/pr/fentanyl-seizures-border-continue-spike-making-san-diego-national-epicenter-fentanyl

Undocumented immigrants who want to come and work might brave land crossing away from land ports of entry. But it's hard to carry 100# of fentanyl AND traverse a desert land crossing in the wilderness. So if you're talking about drug trafficking, you probably want larger hauls, requiring vehicles.

BTW those patrol stations I bolded are inland. I have to go through the San Clemente checkpoint every time I come north from San Diego to Orange County. Only rarely is that checkpoint actually staffed and stopping people from rolling through at 80 mph. And in every time that checkpoint has been staffed and looking at drivers, I (a while middle-aged male) am always waved through without so much as them wanting me to roll down my window.

So there are TONS of ways to fly under the radar. Not to say that we should take much from fiction, but if Bryan Cranston / Walter White was driving through that checkpoint, he'd absolutely NEVER get stopped.

This is why we have to strengthen security and take away their pot of gold

we wont be 100% successful but if we make it much harder for them they will go some place else

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 19, 2023, 08:37:54 PM

yes deterrents are better than the alternative

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 19, 2023, 10:20:52 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 07:02:25 PM

I would get Mexico on board with drug enforcement by threatening to cut commerce

Increase border enforcement personnel

reduce the flow of illegals by sending them back to their country
word would get out and there would be fewer attempts

quit doing catch and release

random checks on all traffic

Reminds me, there are border patrol checkpoints on your way north and east into Texas, traveling up out of the towns of Terlingua and Lajitas, near Big Bend National Park.  I took the family and RV there for Spring Break and, on our way back, we passed through the mandatory checkpoint.  I was towing my RV, so anticipated there might be some extra questioning.  The border guard asked me how many people in the vehicle, I responded four, she asked how many were US citizens, I responded "all of us," then real quick she asked how many people in the RV?  I smiled and said "Zero" and she chuckled, and waved me on through.

/CoolStoryBro

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 11:19:08 PM

Under the catagory of the stupidest thing I ever did

One night in my Jr year at UT I and three of my buds decided we were going to drive to Mexico

Nuevo Laredo was the destination and was 240 miles in my volkswagen bug

So us 4 guys piled in the bug and off we went

When we got to the border we were waved through with no hassle

After sitting in a bar for 3 hours we decided to go back to Austin

It never dawned on me how suspicious this looked to customs

When we got to the check point we were told to park off to the side which I did

They asked us to get out of the car and a German Shepherd proceeded to sniff all four of us from head to toe

They then told us to have a seat while the dog and 3 guys proceeded to search the bug

This scared the holly crap out of me

I knew we didnt have any drugs or alcohol but you just never know if they might plant something

finally the head guy comes over and says

you drove all the way from Austin stay a few hours and you cross back over with nothing

I said yes sir

He looks at me and says youre free to go

which we did very quickly

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 20, 2023, 12:24:29 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 11:19:08 PM

Under the catagory of the stupidest thing I ever did

Ohhhhh please provide the full list  :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 20, 2023, 07:59:33 AM

Mexico is the middleman here guys. China is making this stuff, and sending it to Mexico so it gets here, and kills people.

China is the real problem. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2023, 08:02:15 AM

China is a major problem, and one without obvious solutions as well.

At any rate, I'd like to learn more about what Portugal is doing vis a vis drugs in general.  I'm still amazed MJ is technically illegal.  (I don't smoke weed, didn't like it when I tried it.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 20, 2023, 08:15:16 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 19, 2023, 11:19:08 PM

Under the catagory of the stupidest thing I ever did

One night in my Jr year at UT I and three of my buds decided we were going to drive to Mexico

Nuevo Laredo was the destination and was 240 miles in my volkswagen bug

So us 4 guys piled in the bug and off we went

When we got to the border we were waved through with no hassle

After sitting in a bar for 3 hours we decided to go back to Austin

It never dawned on me how suspicious this looked to customs

When we got to the check point we were told to park off to the side which I did

They asked us to get out of the car and a German Shepherd proceeded to sniff all four of us from head to toe

They then told us to have a seat while the dog and 3 guys proceeded to search the bug

This scared the holly crap out of me

I knew we didnt have any drugs or alcohol but you just never know if they might plant something

finally the head guy comes over and says

you drove all the way from Austin stay a few hours and you cross back over with nothing

I said yes sir

He looks at me and says youre free to go

which we did very quickly

I have similar story. In 1982, I was working a construction job in San Antonio at Randolph AFB.

A couple of buddies and I decided that we would drive to Del Rio Texas and cross into Mexico for a day trip. We were all 18 -19 years old and didn't think much of it. 

We borrowed a friends fairly new car (small car, don't remember make and model), drove to the border and crossed with no issue. Instead of drinking, we just went around to the local shops. My friend who was 19 at the time, bought a bottle of Mescal and the rest of us bought some stupid crap, nothing illegal. We did go into a couple of bars and have a couple of drinks, but no where near enough to get drunk.

Coming back across the border, my friend declared his bottle of Mescal and because he as of legal age, he simply paid the duty on it. However, like your story, they asked us to park and get out of the car. Then a couple of officers began to search the car. Like you, we were not really concerned because we didn't do drugs and never worried they would find anything.

When the officers were done, they simply gave us the keys and said we were free to go.

When we returned and returned the car to the guy who let us use it, I told him about getting searched at the border. His face went flush and he looked nervous. I asked why the worry and he immediately went to the car. He opened up the drivers door, reached inside a cloth pocket on the door and pulled out a joint. At that point, I almost panicked and asked why he had that in there and didn't tell me. He said that he thought we would park on the US side and walk across the bridge. 

The moral of the story, don't drive a car that is not yours, across the border. LOL Also, pick better friends. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2023, 08:22:34 AM

Sounds like the core plot for "Hangover XI" ....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2023, 08:42:51 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/XzR3BVU.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 20, 2023, 09:25:46 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/FwrJgq5.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on April 20, 2023, 09:31:41 AM

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtY_reEagAE9HUQ?format=jpg&name=small)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 20, 2023, 09:40:26 AM

My friend bought some apples at Safeway on the way down to Mexico.  We literally went there for an hour, within 100 yards of the border.
On the way back, they made him throw away the apples, even though he had a receipt.  
Maybe they care more about produce than drugs!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2023, 09:41:12 AM

The Ag inspectors are pretty severe about such things for obvious reasons.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 20, 2023, 10:01:16 AM

While we are confessing to the stupidity of our youth as it relates to border crossings…

Living in Metro Detroit in the 70s and 80s- the “ thing” to do on a weekend was to make the quick trip into Windsor Canada- where the legal drinking age was 18 ( versus 21 )

It was common to cross the tunnel or bridge without much trouble- so long as you were polite and respectful to the Border Crossing staff.  

One particular Friday evening, in my car I grabbed two buddies and we were headed there. My one friend had a small pouch of weed and was rolling a joint in the backseat. I vehemently objected to it for obvious reasons, plus I really didn’t care for it myself as it always made me paranoid and hungry lol

He assured me he had done it dozens of times and we would be fine.

Of course they asked us to pull to the side, brought the German Shepherd dog out and he proceeded to find a seed on the backseat floor.

Making matters worse my friend had given me the rolled joint to put in my cigarette package. ( yes- I smoked back then). 

Into separate cells  we went. They begin conducting a strip search and full cavity check if you get my meaning.   I was freaking out because back then the penalty was very severe. I almost blurted out “OK you got me“. But for some reason I kept my mouth shut and when he was done searching me he picked up my cigarette pack held it up at an angle shook it around, set it back down and said OK get dressed you’re free to go!  He somehow didn’t see it 

Meanwhile my idiot friend had the small bag of weed down in his underwear. But I did not realize at the time was that in his cell he climbed on the chair and stuffed the weed in the ceiling vent fan. 

When they asked him to remove his clothes he refused so they brought in the RCMP. ( Royal Canadian mounted police).  Those guys don’t fuck around. I could see through the window they just grabbed him in a chokehold and quickly made him unconscious. They forcibly removed his clothes and searched him.

He had done the whole thing to distract them and apparently it worked because when he came to they told him to get the hell out of here.

And to make matters worse, when we got back over on the US side he stopped at a cell phone, called the border patrol, and told them to go look in the exhaust fan. He laughed at them and then hung up

Moral of the story:   Like the Grinch said, “ I’m a idiot “.  And my friends were idiots.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 20, 2023, 10:01:41 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 20, 2023, 09:40:26 AM

My friend bought some apples at Safeway on the way down to Mexico.  We literally went there for an hour, within 100 yards of the border.
On the way back, they made him throw away the apples, even though he had a receipt. 
Maybe they care more about produce than drugs!

Lucky they weren't eggs. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 20, 2023, 10:10:13 AM

Jeez, and all I smuggled back from Windsor were Cuban cigars. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 20, 2023, 10:16:04 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 20, 2023, 10:01:16 AM

Moral of the story:  Like the Grinch said, “ I’m a idiot “.  And my friends were idiots. 

you werent idiots

you were 19 and just doing your job

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2023, 10:24:57 AM

My bet is "we" could go on for days about stuff we did when we were "19" we wouldn't do today.

A few of mine scare me today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2023, 11:13:42 AM

SpaceX Starship orbital launch live updates (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/20/spacex-starship-orbital-launch-attempt-live-updates.html)

It exploded midflight.  Hopefully they can learn from that and fix it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2023, 11:15:51 AM

The Starship rocket suffered a mid-flight failure roughly 4 minutes after its historic launch. The company said in a tweet it experienced a “rapid unscheduled disassembly,” indicating the rocket was destroyed. As a reminder, no crew were on board.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 20, 2023, 11:37:18 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 20, 2023, 11:15:51 AM

The Starship rocket suffered a mid-flight failure roughly 4 minutes after its historic launch. The company said in a tweet it experienced a “rapid unscheduled disassembly,” indicating the rocket was destroyed. As a reminder, no crew were on board.

Like Forest said

shit happens

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 20, 2023, 11:39:33 AM

I guess rapid unscheduled disassembly is science speak for it blew the f**k up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 20, 2023, 11:52:22 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 20, 2023, 11:39:33 AM

I guess rapid unscheduled disassembly is science speak for it blew the f**k up

The phrase "rapid unscheduled disassembly" is par for the course for Elon Musk. He appears to enjoy making light of things. I find it hilarious. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2023, 12:25:19 PM

Washington governor poised to sign massive 'assault weapons' ban, says it 'will save lives' | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/washington-governor-poised-sign-massive-assault-weapons-ban-says-save-lives)

Won't do a thing about crime I predict.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 20, 2023, 12:31:11 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 20, 2023, 12:25:19 PM

Washington governor poised to sign massive 'assault weapons' ban, says it 'will save lives' | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/washington-governor-poised-sign-massive-assault-weapons-ban-says-save-lives)

Won't do a thing about crime I predict.

Lots of people in Waukesha died when a killer decided to run them over.


Darrell E. Brooks: The suspect was out on bond after allegedly running over a woman earlier this month | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/22/us/what-we-know-about-suspect-in-waukesha-parade-tragedy/index.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 20, 2023, 12:52:21 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 20, 2023, 12:25:19 PM

Washington governor poised to sign massive 'assault weapons' ban, says it 'will save lives' | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/washington-governor-poised-sign-massive-assault-weapons-ban-says-save-lives)

Won't do a thing about crime I predict.

the courts will kick it back waste of time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 20, 2023, 12:54:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 20, 2023, 12:25:19 PM

Washington governor poised to sign massive 'assault weapons' ban, says it 'will save lives' | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/washington-governor-poised-sign-massive-assault-weapons-ban-says-save-lives)

Won't do a thing about crime I predict.

I'm pretty sure the SCOTUS would rule that law unconstitutional. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2023, 01:15:31 PM

A lot of states are passing these kinds of bills now.  Then they work their way through the courts.

One of my issues is they won't reduce gun crime perceptibly and folks  will want more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 20, 2023, 01:19:14 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 20, 2023, 12:52:21 PM

the courts will kick it back waste of time

Yeah, but it looks like they are doing something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 20, 2023, 01:36:20 PM

I like that it was "massive"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 20, 2023, 02:22:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 20, 2023, 11:13:42 AM

SpaceX Starship orbital launch live updates (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/20/spacex-starship-orbital-launch-attempt-live-updates.html)

It exploded midflight.  Hopefully they can learn from that and fix it.

That was the entire point.  They only expected it to clear the gantry, everything beyond that was gravy, and although the Rapid Disassembly might have been Unscheduled, none of their engineers seriously believed that test flight was going to end up in any way OTHER than an intentional detonation over the ocean.

This is an extremely ambitious program, and today's test represents a major success.

Plus, we got to watch Texas rednecks on pontoon boats in the bay, cheer the launch and eventual detonation of the rocket.  Just pure entertainment all the way around.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 20, 2023, 02:25:48 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 20, 2023, 02:22:59 PM

That was the entire point.  They only expected it to clear the gantry, everything beyond that was gravy, and although the Rapid Disassembly might have been Unscheduled, none of their engineers seriously believed that test flight was going to end up in any way OTHER than an intentional detonation over the ocean.

This is an extremely ambitious program, and today's test represents a major success.

Plus, we got to watch Texas rednecks on pontoon boats in the bay, cheer the launch and eventual detonation of the rocket.  Just pure entertainment all the way around.

😂😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 20, 2023, 03:06:17 PM

Vladimir Putin is preparing to attack the UK (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/vladimir-putin-is-preparing-to-attack-the-uk/ar-AA1a7hRJ?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=913c00c56c3e43f797b3bf58755c9676&ei=5)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 20, 2023, 03:14:06 PM

the stock market and the economy aren't going to like that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 20, 2023, 04:20:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2023, 03:22:04 PM

110,000 died last year alone. How many is it too many? When does something get done to fix it? And who does that fixing?

That chart is not a running total FYI. It's number of deaths by year.


Are fentanyl overdose deaths rising in the US? (usafacts.org) (https://usafacts.org/articles/are-fentanyl-overdose-deaths-rising-in-the-us/)

I mean, I'm not talking about what too many is. I was talking about the incorrect stats listed. And we can discuss the scale of the tragedy without incorrectly listing the scale of the issue. 

The original posts said every year, more deaths than WWII. That's blatantly not correct. If you'd like, we can go with more than 20 9/11s. Also too many. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2023, 04:21:17 PM

It's probably more deaths per year that died in WW 2 per year, or very close to it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 20, 2023, 04:45:49 PM

American deaths per year in WWII

if you use 1941 as one of the years to work the average

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 20, 2023, 04:48:07 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 20, 2023, 12:25:19 PM

Washington governor poised to sign massive 'assault weapons' ban, says it 'will save lives' | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/washington-governor-poised-sign-massive-assault-weapons-ban-says-save-lives)

Won't do a thing about crime I predict.

Banning people’s toys. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 20, 2023, 05:36:33 PM

Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly...

...would make for a great band name.  Maybe a Punk-Ska fusion kind of thing?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 20, 2023, 05:49:07 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 20, 2023, 05:36:33 PM

Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly...

...would make for a great band name.  Maybe a Punk-Ska fusion kind of thing?

we would refer to them as RUD

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 20, 2023, 06:12:11 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 20, 2023, 04:48:07 PM

Banning people’s toys.

Kinda sad, really.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 20, 2023, 07:45:17 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 20, 2023, 03:06:17 PM

Vladimir Putin is preparing to attack the UK (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/vladimir-putin-is-preparing-to-attack-the-uk/ar-AA1a7hRJ?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=913c00c56c3e43f797b3bf58755c9676&ei=5)

Vladimir Putin is reportedly wearing diapers and suffering from “nervous breakdowns” while receiving treatment for an alleged cancer diagnosis, RadarOnline.com has learned.

In a surprising development to come after months of rumors and reports that the 70-year-old Russian leader is slowly dying, Kremlin sources claimed Putin suffered a breakdown this week after switching to a “stronger cancer medicine.”

According to the sources, Putin’s alleged breakdown took place on Tuesday night inside the Russian despot’s Moscow home.

"At about 21.40, Moscow time, the presidential guards heard strange sounds from the room where the president was,” Kremlin insiders reportedly told the Telegram channel General SVR. "Putin did not answer a knock on the door, attempts to determine what was happening in other ways did not bring results."


"Putin sat on the floor near the sofa and wept hysterically," the report continued. "He was wearing only a wet white T-shirt, which he had probably tried to take off, and a black sock on his right leg.”

"Next to him was a torn diaper, which Putin has been using all the time lately,” the insiders spilled further. "To all appeals to him, the president practically did not react, continuing to sob."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 20, 2023, 08:19:23 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 20, 2023, 07:45:17 PM

Vladimir Putin is reportedly wearing diapers and suffering from “nervous breakdowns” while receiving treatment for an alleged cancer diagnosis, RadarOnline.com has learned.

In a surprising development to come after months of rumors and reports that the 70-year-old Russian leader is slowly dying, Kremlin sources claimed Putin suffered a breakdown this week after switching to a “stronger cancer medicine.”

According to the sources, Putin’s alleged breakdown took place on Tuesday night inside the Russian despot’s Moscow home.

"At about 21.40, Moscow time, the presidential guards heard strange sounds from the room where the president was,” Kremlin insiders reportedly told the Telegram channel General SVR. "Putin did not answer a knock on the door, attempts to determine what was happening in other ways did not bring results."


"Putin sat on the floor near the sofa and wept hysterically," the report continued. "He was wearing only a wet white T-shirt, which he had probably tried to take off, and a black sock on his right leg.”

"Next to him was a torn diaper, which Putin has been using all the time lately,” the insiders spilled further. "To all appeals to him, the president practically did not react, continuing to sob."

hell he cant even beat the Ukraine now do you really think hes planning on attacking England

just msn trying to stir up anti Russian vibes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 20, 2023, 09:01:06 PM

apparently, he beat the diaper

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2023, 07:01:36 AM

Millennials are weaker than their parents when it comes to hand grip (winknews.com) (https://winknews.com/2023/04/20/millennials-are-weaker-than-their-parents-when-it-comes-to-hand-grip/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 07:31:22 AM

I would believe some Russian ships may have been gathering intel, fine, but to extend that to "they are going to attack Britain" is silly, at this point.

They MIGHT at some point try and sabotage some things covertly, like the pipeline (whoever did that).  Another nuclear plant disaster in the west would really kibash a lot of things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2023, 07:48:23 AM

https://www.wsj.com/articles/home-sales-fell-in-march-as-mortgage-rates-weighed-on-market-db88aac7?st=9jri2nxm2htf4kz&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 07:54:29 AM

A recession is coming — and equity markets may incur some pain, strategist says (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/21/a-recession-is-coming-and-equity-markets-may-incur-some-pain-strategist-says.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2023, 07:55:46 AM

This is just bad. Asking for 2008 to happen again.

Biden rule will redistribute high-risk loan costs to homeowners with good credit | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/biden-rule-redistribute-high-risk-loan-costs-homeowners-good-credit)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 21, 2023, 08:18:28 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2023, 07:55:46 AM

This is just bad. Asking for 2008 to happen again.

Biden rule will redistribute high-risk loan costs to homeowners with good credit | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/biden-rule-redistribute-high-risk-loan-costs-homeowners-good-credit)

Yes- this is the business I am in- so I saw this coming. It is the opposite of capitalism, free enterprise and meritocracy.  
you should see the details.  You wouldn’t believe it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2023, 08:23:12 AM

Please share if you can.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 08:28:57 AM

Mortgage Industry Reacts to New Biden Rules: What You Need to Know (pyramidcreditrepair.com) (https://pyramidcreditrepair.com/mortgage-industry-reacts-to-new-biden-rules/)

(https://i.imgur.com/E9CxAus.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2023, 08:34:31 AM

One thing I don't quite understand is whether or not this is for new loans only?

The existing ones stand as is?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 08:35:31 AM

New loans longer than 15 years, and I'd guess refis are included.

I'm surprised this can be done without Congress as it is clearly a tax.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 08:57:16 AM

Nuclear fusion will not be regulated the same way as nuclear fission (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/20/nuclear-fusion-will-not-be-regulated-the-same-way-nuclear-fission-is.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2023, 08:59:38 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 08:35:31 AM

New loans longer than 15 years, and I'd guess refis are included.

I'm surprised this can be done without Congress as it is clearly a tax.

That was my next post. It's further proof that the swamp is really in charge.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 09:01:21 AM

Maybe someone will sue, a lot of folks have "standing", and at least delay it.  Imagine some government department started adding fees to the purchase of say milk depending on your income level or credit rating to subsidize poorer people ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 21, 2023, 09:06:46 AM

Correct 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 21, 2023, 09:09:02 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2023, 08:59:38 AM

That was my next post. It's further proof that the swamp is really in charge.

This was done by the head of FHFA, a Biden appointee, who is very focused on racial issues.

It affects loans that go through Fannie and Freddie but doesn’t affect loans necessarily at a bank holds in its portfolio. However most banks try to match Fannie and Freddie pricing so they can sell the loan later if needed

And yes badger you are correct this does not affect loans that are already written and in existence

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2023, 09:22:08 AM

I don't understand. The table says basically that those with higher credit will pay very low fees, and only those who are higher risk, i.e. less than 20% LTV at credit score >=780 are charged fees at all. As your credit score drops, you actually pay higher fees. 

So I don't understand how this makes high-credit borrowers "subsidize" anything for low-credit borrowers. Can someone explain? 

On top of that, I don't understand why the administration would fight a housing affordability problem by... Raising the cost it takes to buy a home.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 21, 2023, 09:24:40 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2023, 09:22:08 AM

I don't understand. The table says basically that those with higher credit will pay very low fees, and only those who are higher risk, i.e. less than 20% LTV at credit score >=780 are charged fees at all. As your credit score drops, you actually pay higher fees.

So I don't understand how this makes high-credit borrowers "subsidize" anything for low-credit borrowers. Can someone explain?

On top of that, I don't understand why the administration would fight a housing affordability problem by... Raising the cost it takes to buy a home.

When I get back in the office I will share the actual numbers with you. It definitely subsidizes people with worse credit scores and lower down payment by charging more to those with high credit scores and money for down payment.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 09:28:07 AM

That table may be wrong, I didn't look at it very carefully.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2023, 09:28:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 07:31:22 AM

I would believe some Russian ships may have been gathering intel, fine, but to extend that to "they are going to attack Britain" is silly, at this point.

They MIGHT at some point try and sabotage some things covertly, like the pipeline (whoever did that).  Another nuclear plant disaster in the west would really kibash a lot of things.

well, the Germans shut down their plants

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2023, 09:30:45 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 21, 2023, 09:24:40 AM

When I get back in the office I will share the actual numbers with you. It definitely subsidizes people with worse credit scores and lower down payment by charging more to those with high credit scores and money for down payment.

so, my daughters should blow up their credit and show they have very little for a down payment before taking the 30 year mortgage?

easy peasy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2023, 10:01:08 AM

so where does this extra interest charge go

who gets it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 10:10:33 AM

Folks with poor credit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2023, 10:11:46 AM

hasn't that always been common?

and racist 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2023, 10:13:58 AM

MOSCOW (AP) — Russia’s military acknowledged that a bomb accidentally dropped by one of its warplanes caused a powerful blast in a Russian city not far from Ukraine’s border, injuring two and scaring local residents.

Belgorod, a city of 340,000 located about 40 kilometers (25 miles) east of the Russia-Ukraine border, has faced regular drone attacks during Russia’s current military operation in Ukraine. Russian authorities blamed the earlier strikes on the Ukrainian military, which refrained from directly claiming responsibility for the attacks.

The explosion late Thursday was far more powerful than anything Belgorod residents had experienced before. Witnesses reported a low hissing sound followed by a blast that made nearby apartment buildings tremble and shattered their windows.

It left a 20-meter (66-foot) -wide crater in the middle of a tree-lined avenue flanked by apartment blocks, damaged several cars and threw one vehicle onto a store roof. Two people were injured, and a third person was later hospitalized with hypertension, authorities said.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2023, 10:16:16 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 10:10:33 AM

Folks with poor credit.

be more specific

exactly where does this extra interest end up

with the lender?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2023, 10:32:51 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 21, 2023, 10:16:16 AM

be more specific

exactly where does this extra interest end up

with the lender?

Seems like it subsidizes the lenders' risk.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2023, 10:38:05 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2023, 10:32:51 AM

Seems like it subsidizes the lenders' risk.

if thats the case what stops the lender from reducing the normal rate they would change to zero out the affect of this interest tax

the mortgage industry is very competitive

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2023, 10:39:59 AM

They remember 2008 and the cause of it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2023, 10:40:53 AM

does the mortgage industry have a strong lobby?

I would imagine they will benefit from this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2023, 10:41:29 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 09:01:21 AM

Maybe someone will sue, a lot of folks have "standing", and at least delay it.  Imagine some government department started adding fees to the purchase of say milk depending on your income level or credit rating to subsidize poorer people ...

Thanks. The table seems to have higher percentages the worse your credit is, so it seems like they're charging those with worse credit HIGHER fees, which is why I find it confusing that this somehow subsidizes people with bad credit. And it seems that this is designed to make mortgages less risky for lenders by charging up-front fees, which would make sense to charge the more risky borrowers more money up front to reduce the lender risk. 

And it seems these fees go to the lender, right? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2023, 10:50:28 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2023, 10:39:59 AM

They remember 2008 and the cause of it.

The cause of it was that house prices fell. 

Obviously they fell because they were artificially high (a bubble). And they were artificially high because they were giving loans to people who probably shouldn't have loans, which goosed housing demand. 

But from 2007-2010, if house prices hadn't fallen, the lenders would have been fine. They wouldn't have to cover short sales or complete foreclosures because borrowers could simply sell the home for above the value of the loan. 

A loan with 90% LTV is only risky for the lender if house prices fall. 

Is this the Biden administration trying to give lenders a boost because they know that house prices are going to crater soon?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2023, 10:51:32 AM

ok once again I ask if the fee goes to the lender what prevents the lender from adjusting his normal rate down to zero out the additional fee

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 21, 2023, 10:57:13 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 21, 2023, 10:51:32 AM

ok once again I ask if the fee goes to the lender what prevents the lender from adjusting his normal rate down to zero out the additional fee

Because the lights don't stay on themselves.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2023, 10:57:56 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 21, 2023, 10:51:32 AM

ok once again I ask if the fee goes to the lender what prevents the lender from adjusting his normal rate down to zero out the additional fee

That's the only thing that makes sense. If the higher fees translate to lower rates than borrowers with poor credit would otherwise qualify for.

(Although obviously they wouldn't go to zero.)  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2023, 11:06:23 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2023, 10:50:28 AM

The cause of it was that house prices fell.

Obviously they fell because they were artificially high (a bubble). And they were artificially high because they were giving loans to people who probably shouldn't have loans, which goosed housing demand.

But from 2007-2010, if house prices hadn't fallen, the lenders would have been fine. They wouldn't have to cover short sales or complete foreclosures because borrowers could simply sell the home for above the value of the loan.

A loan with 90% LTV is only risky for the lender if house prices fall.

Is this the Biden administration trying to give lenders a boost because they know that house prices are going to crater soon?

1. Exactly.

Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

 (https://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/30/business/fannie-mae-eases-credit-to-aid-mortgage-lending.html)2. Soon? They already are coming down.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2023, 11:08:46 AM

I'll never forget 2007/2008.

Almost put me out of business. We went from 30+ people to 3 people.

But nobody in DC cares about us and those 30+ people who were out of work, with no jobs open.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2023, 11:20:14 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2023, 11:08:46 AM

I'll never forget 2007/2008.

Almost put me out of business. We went from 30+ people to 3 people.

But nobody in DC cares about us and those 30+ people who were out of work, with no jobs open.

wasnt the main problem in 2007/2008 that loans were being made to shouldnt have been

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 11:22:48 AM

My step daughter is under contract for a house in SD I hear.  My wife said there were 20 offers for the house, I dunno how they won beyond the obvious.  We all know prices have SHOT up in many places due to shortages and many buyers competing for the same property.  This feeds on itself and spirals upward ...

... until it doesn't, which could be very soon.

My wife wanted me to advise them on this topic, I demurred for obvious reasons.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2023, 11:26:45 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2023, 11:06:23 AM

2. Soon? They already are coming down.

They seem to be coming down in very high-cost areas, and stable or possibly still increasing in low-cost areas, according to national reports. You'd think that with economic headwinds and high interest rates, affordability would cause prices to drop.

But the big issue is lack of inventory. Prices aren't really dropping here in MV (a very high-cost area) because nobody is selling anything. For a little while I was seeing slight price drops, as houses stayed on the market a while, but now there's just nothing available. 

Unless something happens that forces people to sell, I feel like everyone who currently owns is just trying to ride it out. Because it's not like there's anything on the market they can buy if they want to move either. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2023, 11:29:15 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 21, 2023, 11:20:14 AM

wasnt the main problem in 2007/2008 that loans were being made to shouldnt have been

The main problem in 2007/2008 was that from 2003-2006, loans were being made that shouldn't have been. 

Everyone at the time knew it, but with mortgage-backed securities and credit default swaps, everyone assumed that they were risk-free and that someone else would end up holding the bag if it crashed. But a widespread bubble collapse ended up being a system-wide failure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2023, 11:31:28 AM

We are doing a lot of work for Lennar. I hope it doesn't come to a stop, but we also don't have all of our eggs in that basket. We diversified our client base.

In 2007 we had 32 large (100-1000 lots) subdivisions on the books.

One by one, they all got cancelled over a 6 month period. And we had nothing to do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2023, 11:32:09 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2023, 11:29:15 AM

The main problem in 2007/2008 was that from 2003-2006, loans were being made that shouldn't have been.

Everyone at the time knew it, but with mortgage-backed securities and credit default swaps, everyone assumed that they were risk-free and that someone else would end up holding the bag if it crashed. But a widespread bubble collapse ended up being a system-wide failure.

1999-2006.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2023, 11:34:16 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2023, 11:29:15 AM

The main problem in 2007/2008 was that from 2003-2006, loans were being made that shouldn't have been.

Everyone at the time knew it, but with mortgage-backed securities and credit default swaps, everyone assumed that they were risk-free and that someone else would end up holding the bag if it crashed. But a widespread bubble collapse ended up being a system-wide failure.

thats what I thought

I thought steps were taken to avoid that in the future

todays decrease in prices IMHO is just a reflection of our economy and is much more natural then back then

this built in interest tax wont do anything as long as lenders can still adjust their base interest rate to remain competitive

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 21, 2023, 11:35:04 AM

The housing market is still stupid tight here in MSP for want of inventory at any level. We are looking to sell and move. The only reason something doesn't sell is if there is something seriously wrong with the house (I've seen a few like this on the metro fringes, and I suspect it will require septic tank replacement or somesuch). 

I am not worried at all about selling our house at the price point we are looking at, it's buying what we're looking for that's hard. Anything listed now won't be there when we finally get the go ahead to start seriously looking.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2023, 11:36:07 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on April 21, 2023, 11:35:04 AM

The housing market is still stupid tight here in MSP for want of inventory at any level. We are looking to sell and move. The only reason something doesn't sell is if there is something seriously wrong with the house (I've seen a few like this on the metro fringes, and I suspect it will require septic tank replacement or somesuch).

I am not worried at all about selling our house at the price point we are looking at, it's buying what we're looking for that's hard. Anything listed now won't be there when we finally get the go ahead to start seriously looking.

sellers market

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 11:39:58 AM

When I see all the major construction going on around me I have to wonder if it's being vastly overbuilt.  It's crazy, and a fair bit is office buildings.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2023, 12:05:00 PM

Things are slowing in Illinois. People are just leaving. Indiana and Wisconsin are holding their own.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2023, 12:05:10 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 11:22:48 AM

My step daughter is under contract for a house in SD I hear.  My wife said there were 20 offers for the house, I dunno how they won beyond the obvious.  We all know prices have SHOT up in many places due to shortages and many buyers competing for the same property.  This feeds on itself and spirals upward ...

... until it doesn't, which could be very soon.

My wife wanted me to advise them on this topic, I demurred for obvious reasons.

(https://i.imgur.com/qZjF9SU.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 12:10:39 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/wwD89i8.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 01:02:01 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/Zl8e6d3.png)

The Bingham Canyon Mine is an open-pit mine in Salt Lake City, Utah. At 2.5 miles (4 km) wide and 0.75 miles (1.2 km) deep, it is the largest man made excavation in the world. It is also considered to have produced more copper than any other mine in history – more than 17,000,000 tons.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 02:24:55 PM

The Fox News Defamation Trial Hurt Trust Among Some Viewers | FiveThirtyEight (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/polls-fox-dominion-settlement-misinformation-media-trust/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 21, 2023, 02:29:03 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 21, 2023, 10:51:32 AM

ok once again I ask if the fee goes to the lender what prevents the lender from adjusting his normal rate down to zero out the additional fee

That’s not how it works.  Let me explain.

the market to purchase and sell mortgages in the secondary market is what makes the market work.  Most banks originate the mortgage and sell it to another bank.  The bank that wrote gets Fee income from that sale, and the bank or servicer that buys it gets the value if the servicing rights and all the fees that go with it.
To be a bank or servicer- you have to have major scale and spend heavily on technology.  That’s why there are only a handful of servicers- and that’s why so many banks originate them to sell them for feet income.


either way the market is controlled by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.  The underwriting is automated to their standards and the pricing is automated to their standards. 

Each loan has what they call LL PAs.  Loan level price adjustment. Those have been around forever. A simple example would be let’s say you and I both apply for a mortgage and everything between us is equal except your debt to income calculation is 30% and mine is 40%. By definition my loan is slightly riskier and therefore there will be a loan level price adjustment to the interest rate for me. Perhaps 1/8 higher or something like that.  All of the banks base their pricing on these standards and loan level price adjustments because they have to. Whether you’re selling alone or keeping it, or buying it it is basically stamped at a certain risk level which is reflected and its price. So if you try to charge extra or charge less to be more competitive you are now holding or selling an asset that is not priced right and you will lose in the end. 


what this new policy is doing - in certain cases- is reversing that thought process.  So somebody with a higher credit score might get A loan level price adjustment that gives them credit for that and give them a lower interest rate.  Effective May 1 it might just be the opposite where the person with the higher credit score has a higher interest rate and the person with a lower credit score has a lower interest rate.  Same with down payments. Historically if you put more money down you had a lower loan to value, so you had a loan level price adjustment in your favor with a lower interest rate.  Effective May 1 that might actually work against you where you are rewarded for having less money down and penalized for having more money down.

said quite simply it is clearly away for good borrowers, which is people with good credit scores who have saved money for a down payment, to subsidize mortgage lending for those who don’t have good credit scores or have not saved money for a down payment.

it has good intentions, which I had to help people overcome barriers but unfortunately like so many other things in our world that’s being done at the cost of people who have been successful paying their bills and saving money.
and no way does this help any mortgage lender. Mortgage lenders want credit worthy borrowers and this does not attract credit worthy borrowers. It attracts people who are less credit worthy and therefore much higher risk levels.

and this has nothing to do with the banks or mortgage lenders who all are very much against it. This is a policy instituted by the federal housing financial administration, which is a presidential appointed role and has control over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2023, 02:40:07 PM

damn, I learned something again

so, I'll let my daughter know to stop saving money for the down payment and not worry about her credit score

until AFTER she has the mortgage in hand

and I certainly won't gift her a few thousand to help with the down payment 

that might just cost her money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2023, 02:44:36 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 21, 2023, 02:29:03 PM

what this new policy is doing - in certain cases- is reversing that thought process.  So somebody with a higher credit score might get A loan level price adjustment that gives them credit for that and give them a lower interest rate.  Effective May 1 it might just be the opposite where the person with the higher credit score has a higher interest rate and the person with a lower credit score has a lower interest rate.  Same with down payments. Historically if you put more money down you had a lower loan to value, so you had a loan level price adjustment in your favor with a lower interest rate.  Effective May 1 that might actually work against you where you are rewarded for having less money down and penalized for having more money down.

That all made perfect sense. Thank you. 

How does this square with the chart posted by CD, though? (From here: https://pyramidcreditrepair.com/mortgage-industry-reacts-to-new-biden-rules/ )

(https://i.imgur.com/WaTyfQt.png)

In this case it seems like the most creditworthy borrowers either have 0% LLPA or maximum of 0.375% LLPA. Whereas less creditworthy borrowers could have a maximum of almost 3% LLPA. 

If that chart is inaccurate, of course, let me know. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 21, 2023, 02:57:47 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2023, 02:44:36 PM

That all made perfect sense. Thank you.

How does this square with the chart posted by CD, though? (From here: https://pyramidcreditrepair.com/mortgage-industry-reacts-to-new-biden-rules/ )

(https://i.imgur.com/WaTyfQt.png)I

In this case it seems like the most creditworthy borrowers either have 0% LLPA or maximum of 0.375% LLPA. Whereas less creditworthy borrowers could have a maximum of almost 3% LLPA.

If that chart is inaccurate, of course, let me know.

No that chart is accurate I’ll be at not 100% complete.  What I wish it would show you and I could probably do that off-line, is how it was before this took affect.
But just take a look at the line where the credit score is between 640 and 659.  Which client has a better rate. The one who puts 5% down or the one who puts 10% down?

Now look at the bar with more than a 780 credit score. Why( and this is new) Is that person being penalized by .375 interest rate for putting 20% down?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 21, 2023, 03:07:24 PM

Sorry for the size.  Here is a chart that shows you by color where things got better or worse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2023, 03:18:54 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 21, 2023, 03:07:24 PM

Sorry for the size.  Here is a chart that shows you by color where things got better or worse.

Got it. THAT answers the question. Couldn't understand a before & after comparison because I didn't know what the before looked like lol.

Appreciate it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 03:27:35 PM

So, in effect, this levels out the playing field, right (or close to it).  It makes being credit worthy less valuable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 03:44:31 PM

Clocks will run after first downs in college football with NCAA set to change half-century old rule Friday - CBSSports.com (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/clocks-will-run-after-first-downs-in-college-football-with-ncaa-set-to-change-half-century-old-rule-friday/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2023, 04:00:50 PM

dumbasses

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2023, 04:03:35 PM

Rhule said in yesterday's PC that the Husker spring game tomorrow will run NFL clock rules

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2023, 04:29:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 03:27:35 PM

So, in effect, this levels out the playing field, right (or close to it).  It makes being credit worthy less valuable.

Less valuable, but still valuable. 

I need to attack some debt this year to get my score up from a pitiful 806. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 21, 2023, 04:40:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 03:27:35 PM

So, in effect, this levels out the playing field, right (or close to it).  It makes being credit worthy less valuable.

Levels?   I guess it depends on your opinion.  
 
before- there was financial incentive- as far as loan rates-for people who pay their bills  and save their money.   

Now there is not nearly as much- and in some scenarios it is penalized.  The recipients of that penalty are those with much lower credit scores and little money saved.  

You think that’s level?   What do you think will be the longer term impact on consumer priorities and behavior?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2023, 04:49:31 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 21, 2023, 04:40:05 PM

What do you think will be the longer term impact on consumer priorities and behavior?

I expect very little. Those who are prudent will remain prudent. Those who are not? Will remain not. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2023, 04:57:38 PM

yup, those that are prudent make mortgage payments on time with less chance of default

those that are not?
the lender will have to deal with them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 21, 2023, 05:20:15 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2023, 04:49:31 PM

I expect very little. Those who are prudent will remain prudent. Those who are not? Will remain not.

Well…. You are kind of missing the point.

There are lots of people who will be prudent regardless. There are lots of people who won’t regardless.  But what I see in banking today as far as consumers, are many in the middle who are trying really hard and some do a much better job of it than others because they are motivated. They believe that saving money is a good thing, and spending money on credit is something to be done in moderation. I see many others who couldn’t care less about their credit score because they don’t think it matters and think they can buy everything on credit for their entire life

If you go to buy your next house, and they tell you you will get a better interest rate by putting only 5% down versus putting 20% down, it may or may not change what you do but for many people it will definitely change what they do.

To me just assuming it won’t change anything is quite naïve. It’s like saying that reducing sentences for convicted criminals, or not prosecuting them at all, or letting them out on bail, will not have an impact on crime. Which we now see with blazing proof is completely false.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 21, 2023, 05:31:35 PM

Let me also add this.

Virtually every bank in this country has a loan program specifically for borrowers who are low to moderate income or are buying in load of moderate income census tracts.   

Lower interest rate, hundred percent loan to value or even more so the borrower does not need to bring any funds to the table, much lower underwriting standards as far as that income, complete waiver of fees in some cases or even granting closing costs from the banks pocket to the borrower. 

The banks cannot find enough people to take these loans. They are fighting literally for any client that fits this profile because they are held accountable by the regulatory agencies to make a certain amount of these type of loans.


They hold these loans in their portfolio so don’t necessarily have to worry about Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae pricing and underwriting rules. They Just accept the fact that these are much higher risk loans and will be written off as bank losses at a much higher clip.  


Go to any banks website and do a search on affordable home lending and you will see what I am talking about

In Miami- using this example because it is Close by and I am very familiar with it- you can buy a $400,000 house, with no money down, and get up to three down payment assistance grants totaling $200,000.  You don’t have to have any money and you don’t have to have a good credit score. You just have to fit the right profile.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2023, 05:39:05 PM

Would my credit union have to follow this?

They do not sell mortgages.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 05:41:25 PM

Lemme see if I understand this with a crude example.  We take two families, one with great credit, one without, who apply for a loan.  The first family is in a group with say 1% default rate, the other with 30% default rate.  In a "normal market", the former might get offered say 5% and the latter 6%.

Now, the former would pay say 5.35% and the latter 5.55%, sort of leveling the playing field.  This would also mean more folks in the latter could get the loan, and fewer in the former.  This would lead to more defaults.  I guess if they pass them off to Fannie and Fredowski, the gubmint will cover the losses.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 21, 2023, 05:41:57 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2023, 05:39:05 PM

Would my credit union have to follow this?

They do not sell mortgages.

No.   If they hold everything on their balance sheet they don’t have to worry about it. However if they occasionally sell pools of loans to create mortgage banking gains, they may make these changes in so that their assets are priced correctly later when they go to sell them.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 21, 2023, 06:01:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 05:41:25 PM

Lemme see if I understand this with a crude example.  We take two families, one with great credit, one without, who apply for a loan.  The first family is in a group with say 1% default rate, the other with 30% default rate.  In a "normal market", the former might get offered say 5% and the latter 6%.

Now, the former would pay say 5.35% and the latter 5.55%, sort of leveling the playing field.  This would also mean more folks in the latter could get the loan, and fewer in the former.  This would lead to more defaults.  I guess if they pass them off to Fannie and Fredowski, the gubmint will cover the losses.

A couple of things:

- remember, When it comes to paying for things you and me and all of us are the “government”
- the example you cited is not accurate.  In the before world, the family withe the good credit score was willing to put 30% down in exchange for an even lower rate- say 4.75. In todays world they will not get that enticement and in fact will have their rate moved from 5 to 5.375. If they decide against the bigger down payment they are now in the 3% default group - even though they could have moved to the .5% default group before and saved $200 a month for their kids college fund.

The family with the bad credit and lack of downpayment was going to get that 6% before- if the qualified. ( Stable source of income and assets in reserve to cover 6 months of payments in an emergency).  They too could get that rate down to 5.75 if they put say 10% down.  In the new world the get there by putting less down. Now- even though they get a better rate/ their payments are higher. And gues what the # 1 predictor of default on mortgages is?    LTV.  People with less equity in their home are exponentially more likely to walk away from it. So now- they are in the 35% default rate. So- have we really done them a favor? We have stretch their cash flow even more in a situation where they are already having trouble making payments and saving money. And we did that at the expense of a good borrower with good credit and savings in the bank. 

I know your MO is to say everything is really not that big of a deal.  If you understood the mechanics of how this works ( nobody would expect you to) you would see that this harmful in many ways, and will further erode the concept of meritocracy. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 06:06:31 PM

Didn't I note I expect this to result in more defaults?  (With subsequent bail outs?)

I don't know how big a deal it may be, but it looks like a bad idea to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2023, 06:16:45 PM

most government ideas of making things better don't achieve the desired results

ideas from Biden's office seem to be less effective than most

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 21, 2023, 06:28:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 06:06:31 PM

Didn't I note I expect this to result in more defaults?  (With subsequent bail outs?)

I don't know how big a deal it may be, but it looks like a bad idea to me.

Yes- you did. And I happen to agree with you- it is a bad idea for a variety of reasons - although I feel the intention of it is good.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2023, 07:42:28 AM

20% is the threshold for not having to pay PMI and escrow property taxes.

We've never put down less than 20%. I'm at 815. Wife 810.

This policy sucks for people like us.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2023, 08:15:03 AM

Can ONE AVOID THIS with a 15 year?  or an ARM?

I got a 10 year ARM refi at a good rate, will have it paid off before it flips.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2023, 09:09:15 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 22, 2023, 08:15:03 AM

Can ONE AVOID THIS with a 15 year?  or an ARM?

I got a 10 year ARM refi at a good rate, will have it paid off before it flips.

Same.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2023, 09:16:39 AM

Self-driving trucks to haul Tyson Foods freight in C.R. England reefer trailers between Dallas and San Antonio

https://cdllife.com/2023/self-driving-trucks-to-haul-tyson-foods-freight-in-c-r-england-reefer-trailers-between-dallas-and-san-antonio/ (https://cdllife.com/2023/self-driving-trucks-to-haul-tyson-foods-freight-in-c-r-england-reefer-trailers-between-dallas-and-san-antonio/)

look out Austin!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 22, 2023, 09:24:01 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2023, 07:42:28 AM

20% is the threshold for not having to pay PMI and escrow property taxes.

We've never put down less than 20%. I'm at 815. Wife 810.

This policy sucks for people like us.

Stay with your credit union and you will be fine

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 22, 2023, 09:24:31 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 22, 2023, 08:15:03 AM

Can ONE AVOID THIS with a 15 year?  or an ARM?

I got a 10 year ARM refi at a good rate, will have it paid off before it flips.

It won’t affect loans already in existence.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2023, 09:38:47 AM

A massive cavern beneath a West Antarctic glacier is teeming with life (sciencenews.org) (https://www.sciencenews.org/article/cavern-west-antarctic-glacier-life?fbclid=IwAR2YAcFnevWuhyHnHN63LArnH_1sjHXnES3BhX8rdexPbfGGJn8X-QkmlcE)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2023, 09:43:23 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/8w8hAle.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2023, 10:37:22 AM

https://www.wsj.com/articles/upside-down-mortgage-policy-212fd736?st=905b9ekofa07m25&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 22, 2023, 11:05:13 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2023, 10:37:22 AM

https://www.wsj.com/articles/upside-down-mortgage-policy-212fd736?st=905b9ekofa07m25&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Really great summary of what I was trying to explain yesterday.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2023, 11:22:46 AM

WSJ does a good job. It's more than worth $4/month to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2023, 12:08:30 PM

no sense saving that $4/month for a downpayment

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2023, 01:28:14 PM

Government program, ethanol in gasoline.  Various studies show it's not green, it reduces mpg, increases pollution especially of HCHO, and takes more energy to make than it's worth, but we can't stop it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2023, 04:49:45 AM

Do y'all have "chicken and waffles" as a thing near you?  It's all over here as a brunch item etc.  I don't really get it.

Original Johnny’s Chicken and Waffles Concept Launches Soon in Midtown | What Now Atlanta (https://whatnowatlanta.com/original-johnnys-chicken-and-waffles-concept-launches-soon-in-midtown/)

The other one I find a bit odd is shrimp and grits.  I've had it, maybe once, it's what it says.  It's OK but I like my shrimp not buried in grits.  What rather odd menu items are popular in your area?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2023, 07:41:56 AM

Texas cattle found dead with tongues cut out | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-cattle-found-dead-tongues-cut)


Who would do such a thing?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2023, 08:17:46 AM

The Genius of Steven Wright:
1 - I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize.
2 - Borrow money from pessimists -- they don't expect it back.
3 - Half the people you know are below average.
4 - 99% of lawyers give the rest a bad name.
5 - 82.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
6 - A conscience is what hurts when all your other parts feel so good.
7 - A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
8 - If you want the rainbow, you got to put up with the rain.
9 - All those who believe in psycho kinesis, raise my hand.
10 - The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
11 - I almost had a psychic girlfriend, ..... But she left me before we met.
12 - OK, so what's the speed of dark?
13 - How do you tell when you're out of invisible ink?
14 - If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something.
15 - Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.
16 - When everything is coming your way, you're in the wrong lane.
17 - Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy.
18 - Hard work pays off in the future; laziness pays off now.
19 - I intend to live forever ... So far, so good.
20 - If Barbie is so popu, why do you have to buy her friends?
21 - Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
22 - What happens if you get scared half to death twice?
23 - My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
24 - Why do psychics have to ask you for your name
25 - If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried.
26 - A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking.
27 - Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
28 - The hardness of the butter is proportional to the softness of the bread.
29 - To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research.
30 - The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard.
31 - The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up.
32 - The colder the x-ray table, the more of your body is required to be on it.
33 - Everyone has a photographic memory; some just don't have film.
34 - If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.
35 - If your car could travel at the speed of light, would your headlights work

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 23, 2023, 10:08:49 AM

wrong thread

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2023, 10:24:22 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2023, 07:41:56 AM

Texas cattle found dead with tongues cut out | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-cattle-found-dead-tongues-cut)


Who would do such a thing?

https://comedortx.com/

taco de lengua (https://comedortx.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 23, 2023, 11:14:22 AM

What's not to like about chicken and waffles?  

And, what's not to like about shrimp and grits?

I bet you also think bacon and eggs are weird.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2023, 11:27:44 AM

Eggs?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 23, 2023, 11:32:19 AM

And bacon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2023, 11:45:26 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 23, 2023, 11:32:19 AM

And bacon.

Lettuce and tomato.


Eggs not needed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2023, 12:06:09 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 23, 2023, 11:14:22 AM

What's not to like about chicken and waffles? 

And, what's not to like about shrimp and grits?

Maybe it's a great combo, I just wondered if this is a widely spread thing or more local.  I prefer shrimp cooked in other ways.

I like grits, I like shrimp, but together to me is a bit odd.  What I fix on occasion for my wife is grits with an easy over egg on top ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 23, 2023, 12:20:15 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 23, 2023, 04:49:45 AM

Do y'all have "chicken and waffles" as a thing near you?  It's all over here as a brunch item etc.  I don't really get it.

Original Johnny’s Chicken and Waffles Concept Launches Soon in Midtown | What Now Atlanta (https://whatnowatlanta.com/original-johnnys-chicken-and-waffles-concept-launches-soon-in-midtown/)

The other one I find a bit odd is shrimp and grits.  I've had it, maybe once, it's what it says.  It's OK but I like my shrimp not buried in grits.  What rather odd menu items are popular in your area?

Yes to both. I like chicken and waffles, but rarely order them. Grits, meh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 23, 2023, 12:25:41 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/IP6HbFN.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2023, 12:28:09 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 23, 2023, 12:20:15 PM

Yes to both. I like chicken and waffles, but rarely order them. Grits, meh.

I like bacon and waffles. I like fried chicken. I like polenta.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2023, 12:36:25 PM

We tried a new place yesterday for lunch.  It was outstanding, dunno how we missed it before now.

Anhs Kitchen (anhkitchenatl.com) (https://anhkitchenatl.com/)

My wife had lemongrass chicken, I had beef pho, and learned how to pronounce pho.

She's doing a music course on line right now, we'll head out somewhere shortly, beautiful day here.

I think I like all kinds of Asian food, it's probably my favorite kind of ethnic food for the money.  I do like "Mex" a lot, and French if it's somewhat affordable.  We have a South American place near us that is very good and interesting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 23, 2023, 12:38:27 PM

Yup.  Shrimp and polenta together are awesome.  That combination has been around for ages.

Somebody in the US calls the exact same thing "shrimp and grits" and all of a sudden it's "new."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2023, 12:41:28 PM

I don't recall seeing it in Cincinnati.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2023, 01:10:44 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2023, 07:41:56 AM

Texas cattle found dead with tongues cut out | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-cattle-found-dead-tongues-cut)


Who would do such a thing?

Mobsters

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2023, 01:16:42 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 23, 2023, 12:38:27 PM

Yup.  Shrimp and polenta together are awesome.  That combination has been around for ages.

Somebody in the US calls the exact same thing "shrimp and grits" and all of a sudden it's "new."

Chicken & waffles and shrimp & grits are "new" to the masses (ie - the bulk of our culture that follows trends and fads and such).  They're traditionally foods from the African-American community that have become "cool" in the past 6-8 years.

They will be replaced by something else random as hell and suddenly "cool."  Yes, this is stupid and never-ending, but it is what it is and at least expands the culinary experiences of some of the most limited people in our society.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2023, 01:22:13 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 23, 2023, 12:25:41 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/IP6HbFN.png)

The egg lobby is stubborn and wants things to remain static.  As in yes, there's some foods that are breakfast foods and the egg is at the top of that list.  Eat eggs every day for breakfast.  If you don't, you'll have a shitty day.
.
However, the pork lobby seems to be more open to evolving.  They benefit from the egg insisting on breakfast being a thing, as it's true eggs are probably the #1 breakfast food by volume, bacon is the real star.  It's the tastiest breakfast food and is almost rationed out, as a rare treat.  
But the pork lobby has done a good job in the past 10-20 years of getting people to put bacon on everything.  Burgers, salads, sandwiches, etc.  Bacon realizes that while "breakfast foods" are traditional, our society gradually evolves over time.  One day, "breakfast food" will no longer exist.  People will eat whatever they want, whenever they want.  Spaghetti at 8am, an omelet at midnight, etc.  

The egg lobby needs to get it's yolk out of the grits and diversify.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 23, 2023, 01:51:50 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 23, 2023, 12:06:09 PM

Maybe it's a great combo, I just wondered if this is a widely spread thing or more local.  I prefer shrimp cooked in other ways.

I like grits, I like shrimp, but together to me is a bit odd.  What I fix on occasion for my wife is grits with an easy over egg on top ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_and_waffles

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 23, 2023, 12:36:25 PM

I had beef pho, and learned how to pronounce pho.

Pho is delicious.

We have a place in town called Pho King Way.

Maybe I should buy one of their t shirts

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2023, 01:54:55 PM

I always thought it was some kind of fake soup ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 23, 2023, 02:03:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 23, 2023, 01:54:55 PM

I always thought it was some kind of fake soup ...

Yeah, it's pho, not faux :57:

My wife keeps asking me to make another batch. She has a poultry allergy, and while beef pho shouldn't have any chicken or chicken stock, it's perhaps hard to trust a restaurant not to cheat a little (or just cross contaminate). So we can't go out together for it. 

Beef pho is something that seems like the reverse of most cooking at home vs restaurant, in that it seems more expensive to make than to buy. I swear it's like I use $60 in ingredients to make $30 worth of soup. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2023, 02:19:19 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 23, 2023, 02:03:35 PM

Yeah, it's pho, not faux :57:

My wife keeps asking me to make another batch. She has a poultry allergy, and while beef pho shouldn't have any chicken or chicken stock, it's perhaps hard to trust a restaurant not to cheat a little (or just cross contaminate). So we can't go out together for it.

Beef pho is something that seems like the reverse of most cooking at home vs restaurant, in that it seems more expensive to make than to buy. I swear it's like I use $60 in ingredients to make $30 worth of soup.

I may have mentioned this before, but this place is my favorite of all time. It's in Long Beach on Anaheim Steet.


(https://i.imgur.com/5e7qljl.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on April 23, 2023, 02:31:15 PM

Yes,  there are some dishes that simply do not make much cost sense to make at home. 

I made a huge pot of Vegetable Beef soup today and I was thinking about that.   I'm using a quart of homemade beef stock which of course cost me somrthing to make but then I was like man this V8 is pricey and the stew meat and the assorted vegetables...yes I'll likely eat this soup about five different times but it ain't cheap making soup. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 23, 2023, 04:30:18 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2023, 12:28:09 PM

I like bacon and waffles. I like fried chicken. I like polenta.

Polenta!  Old family stand by.  Especially with Italians making the sauce. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2023, 06:02:57 PM

@Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) would you consider a government-dictated (ooooh, spooky words) block of time for 24-hour news networks forbidding ads or commentary a breach of your free speech concern?
.
Say from 6-9am and 4-7 pm, CNN and FoxNews and MSNBC will not have commercials and may only report facts, with cited sources.  They're free to have as much down-time or dead-air as they wish during these 2 blocks of time, and they're free to inundate viewers with all of their radical, slanted "commentary" outside of the two blocks of time.
.
Would this be so outrageous?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2023, 06:57:45 PM

as long as only "articles" of Beef tongue and chicken eggs are included

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 23, 2023, 07:06:27 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2023, 02:19:19 PM

I may have mentioned this before, but this place is my favorite of all time. It's in Long Beach on Anaheim Steet.


[img width=260.182 height=331]https://i.imgur.com/5e7qljl.png[/img]

Nice. We were just up in Long Beach yesterday. I'm sure eating pho would have been better than listening to 15 shrieking 6 year olds at a birthday party.

My only solace is that none of them belonged to me, so I could just chill and casualty sip a beer and ignore them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 23, 2023, 10:03:38 PM

Yeah I've made pho at home.  It's really pricey and not as good as I can get at my favorite pho place in town (or even my 2nd, 3rd, and 4th favorite pho places).  If I had to name a favorite soup, then it would be beef pho with eye round steak and brisket.  Bottom line, it's all about the broth.

(https://i.imgur.com/onXq07w.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 24, 2023, 05:53:08 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 23, 2023, 07:06:27 PM

Nice. We were just up in Long Beach yesterday. I'm sure eating pho would have been better than listening to 15 shrieking 6 year olds at a birthday party.

My only solace is that none of them belonged to me, so I could just chill and casualty sip a beer and ignore them.

I’ve only ever been invited or dragged to birthdays for kids 3 and under. Those are usually shockingly OK. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on April 24, 2023, 06:54:12 AM

The 4-10 range brings into play those insufferable jumping and bouncing places that are louder than a EDM nightclub.   To say nothing of a dreaded Chuck E cheese visit. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2023, 07:09:46 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 23, 2023, 06:02:57 PM

Say from 6-9am and 4-7 pm, CNN and FoxNews and MSNBC will not have commercials and may only report facts, with cited sources.  They're free to have as much down-time or dead-air as they wish during these 2 blocks of time, and they're free to inundate viewers with all of their radical, slanted "commentary" outside of the two blocks of time.

My main problem with the "news" is not so much that they don't report "facts", but that they select which "facts" to report, and which to headline and which to bury.  This is editorial.  I think if one watches say Fox News at 6 PM, you see "factual reportage" (generally), but if you watch CNN you see a very different fact set.

One of our TV channels has six "news" channels shown, you can readily toggle back and forth, and it's fascinating to watch at times (I will do it for a few minutes).  (Two channels are weather channels, and then you have Fox, CNN, MSNBC, and the BBC.  Without listening you can readily see which "stories" are reported, and the other channels generally will avoid them unless they are a major national story.  (The BBC is more globally oriented.)

I can tell you a "fact" easily enough to create a misapprehension of reality.  UGA almost lost to Mizzou last season and were lucky to beat another team by one point  ...( so they must be a bad team).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2023, 08:17:32 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/1HSs0pS.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2023, 10:38:38 AM

GOP call for Ukraine peace talks echoes bungled progressive letter | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/international/3963522-gop-call-for-ukraine-peace-talks-echoes-bungled-progressive-letter/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2023, 10:42:14 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/RlGwQcg.jpg)

The building in the foreground just topped out one year after start of construction.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2023, 10:48:51 AM

Nice view looking south, you can see MB stadium and the new Hilton being built next to it.  We looked at a condo in the building near left called Aqua.  The two buildings on the right center are the Coke HQ, and just shy of that is GaTech.  We're NE of this spot a few blocks.  I'm thinking of going to some Tech baseball games sometime, maybe.

(https://i.imgur.com/r0mJUol.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 24, 2023, 12:29:30 PM

I just saw that Tucker Carlson is out at Fox News. Not much detail yet, but his last show was this past Friday. Happened pretty fast.

He was highly rated with viewership, although we stopped watching him a few years ago. 

Seemed like he got weird.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 24, 2023, 12:43:38 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 24, 2023, 12:29:30 PM

I just saw that Tucker Carlson is out at Fox News. Not much detail yet, but his last show was this past Friday. Happened pretty fast.

He was highly rated with viewership, although we stopped watching him a few years ago.

Seemed like he got weird.

don't think he got weird so much as he kept actually committing a mortal sin in mainstream media.....he actually started telling the truth from time to time. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 24, 2023, 12:47:39 PM

And, Din Lemon out at CNN. 

Earth Day cleanup ??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 24, 2023, 12:47:59 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 24, 2023, 12:29:30 PM

I just saw that Tucker Carlson is out at Fox News. Not much detail yet, but his last show was this past Friday. Happened pretty fast.

He was highly rated with viewership, although we stopped watching him a few years ago.

Seemed like he got weird.

They also fired Don Bongino on Friday, and CNN fired Don Lemon today

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 24, 2023, 12:51:30 PM

I have no clue how Don Lemon lasted as long as he did. He may just be the biggest moron I have ever seen on cable tv news. And that is saying something....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2023, 12:57:16 PM

I view these guys all as entertainers, not "news" sources, at all.  They feed their audience what they want to hear.

There really isn't enough "news" to be on several networks 24/7, so they added these opinion shows, which hit it off big.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 24, 2023, 01:08:10 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 24, 2023, 12:57:16 PM

I view these guys all as entertainers, not "news" sources, at all.  They feed their audience what they want to hear.

There really isn't enough "news" to be on several networks 24/7, so they added these opinion shows, which hit it off big.

Same here. When they cease being entertaining, I'm out.

The only show on Fox News worth looking at is probably Bret Baier. He is not "over the top" like the others.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 24, 2023, 02:09:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 24, 2023, 07:09:46 AM

My main problem with the "news" is not so much that they don't report "facts", but that they select which "facts" to report, and which to headline and which to bury.  This is editorial.  I think if one watches say Fox News at 6 PM, you see "factual reportage" (generally), but if you watch CNN you see a very different fact set.

One of our TV channels has six "news" channels shown, you can readily toggle back and forth, and it's fascinating to watch at times (I will do it for a few minutes).  (Two channels are weather channels, and then you have Fox, CNN, MSNBC, and the BBC.  Without listening you can readily see which "stories" are reported, and the other channels generally will avoid them unless they are a major national story.  (The BBC is more globally oriented.)

I can tell you a "fact" easily enough to create a misapprehension of reality.  UGA almost lost to Mizzou last season and were lucky to beat another team by one point  ...( so they must be a bad team).

Oh, I'm confident we can roll back the partisan BS quite a bit.
Instead of what happened and who probably did it and likely why, we just stick to what happeend.
Kyiv was bombed yesterday, likely by Russian jets, probably in retaliation for Ukraine's counter-offensive in late Feb.....Biden is weak on this issue.....blah blah
VS
Kyiv was bombed yesterday.  More to come, once we know it for sure.  Might be an hour, might be a week.
.
You will not find that on any of these channels because these channels have 24 hours to fill.  20 seconds of reporting news, 59 min, 40 seconds of this kinda sorta might be because of this and could possibly maybe affect that.....it's THE problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 24, 2023, 02:11:25 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 24, 2023, 12:29:30 PM

I just saw that Tucker Carlson is out at Fox News. Not much detail yet, but his last show was this past Friday. Happened pretty fast.

He was highly rated with viewership, although we stopped watching him a few years ago.

Seemed like he got weird.

Right.
Because he was normal in the past.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2023, 02:25:02 PM

He worked for MS NBC in the past.  And CNN...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 24, 2023, 02:29:16 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 24, 2023, 02:25:02 PM

He worked for MS NBC in the past.  And CNN...

When he was normal?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2023, 02:35:17 PM

See Tucker Carlson demolished on TV by his own words - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WXGs2PKZ4I)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 24, 2023, 02:53:30 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 24, 2023, 12:29:30 PM

I just saw that Tucker Carlson is out at Fox News. Not much detail yet, but his last show was this past Friday. Happened pretty fast.

He was highly rated with viewership, although we stopped watching him a few years ago.

Seemed like he got weird.

Costing your employer $787 million is probably going to get you sacked.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 24, 2023, 03:36:17 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on April 24, 2023, 02:53:30 PM

Costing your employer $787 million is probably going to get you sacked.

Insiders say that’s not it- a number of other names at Fox were much more tied to that law suit and were thought much more likely to take the fall for it. 

Carlson was definitely more openly, and privately critical of Fox Management than any one else. 

He was perceived by some as untouchable given the incredible ratings success he continued to achieve at that critical 8pm hour.  No so called experts saw this coming. 

Lemon on the other hand- the consensus is, what the hell took so long. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2023, 03:56:03 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 24, 2023, 02:09:37 PM

Oh, I'm confident we can roll back the partisan BS quite a bit.

I don't.  It starts with reporting a story in the first place, or covering the news with a pillow.

And of course actual straight news is usually boring.  The Dow did this, Biden said that, there was a tornado in OK, the UN said climated change is getting worse, ...

We have a somewhat free market, eyeballs will go where it's most comforting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 24, 2023, 04:00:10 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on April 24, 2023, 02:53:30 PM

Costing your employer $787 million is probably going to get you sacked.

Might want to check on that statement.

(Fox shares are dropping, and having TCT on air was worth $700 million/year for the network)

The settlement last week is a coincidence, and Carlson had much less to do with the suit than others on the network. See Hannity and Ingraham (and Bongino).

There are some indications that TC was removed due to other pending suits, claiming that his show was involved in many layers of harassment and that it was a toxic workplace. It will all come out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 24, 2023, 04:01:11 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 24, 2023, 03:36:17 PM

Insiders say that’s not it- a number of other names at Fox were much more tied to that law suit and were thought much more likely to take the fall for it.

Carlson was definitely more openly, and privately critical of Fox Management than any one else.

He was perceived by some as untouchable given the incredible ratings success he continued to achieve at that critical 8pm hour.  No so called experts saw this coming.

Lemon on the other hand- the consensus is, what the hell took so long.

Also the pending lawsuits against TC and Fox.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2023, 04:05:22 PM

I doubt this alleviates any of the potential vulnerability to Smartmatic because what was said and done is water over the dike.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 24, 2023, 07:09:50 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 24, 2023, 03:56:03 PM

I don't.  It starts with reporting a story in the first place, or covering the news with a pillow.

And of course actual straight news is usually boring.  The Dow did this, Biden said that, there was a tornado in OK, the UN said climated change is getting worse, ...

We have a somewhat free market, eyeballs will go where it's most comforting.

That's the point of my proposal - during the most-watched time-slots, everyone is required to provide the boring news with no ads.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 24, 2023, 10:10:34 PM

I don't watch cable news that often. But from what I can tell, Tucker Carlson is one of the FEW that actually invites real life actual journalists on his show like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibi, and Aaron Mate. 

He is one of the few if not the only mainstream tv news anchor that openly rails against the federal governments abuses of the law and attacks on the first amendment, one of the few if not the only that has dedicated prime time segments to demanding the end of the persecution of Julian Assange, one of the few if not the only that exposed all the lies of the US govt in terms of the Syrian war, one of the few if not the only that has called out the US govt for it's fanning the flames of potential nuclear war in Ukraine, and one of the few that openly called into question the damage control narrative of the mainstream media that Russia blew up it's own pipeline in Germany and one of the few that actually ran segments on Sy Hersh's bombshell article which reports that the US blew up the NordStream 2 pipeline. Sy Hersh is only inarguably the greatest investigative journalist in the history of the United States. He's only broken more bombshell stories than oh- anyone in the history of American journalism. 

These tv news anchors aren't journalists...they are actors whose main function is to manufacture consent and spread propaganda and do narrative control for specific sets of the elites/ruling class. My guess is Tucker got himself into too much trouble for actually telling the truth from time to time.

He had by far the highest rated show on cable news, triple the ratings of basically every other news show on cable tv, and not to mention he had the highest ratings for the key demo 25-44 among all people in that age group- including registered democrats. Fox stock crashed $700 million since the announcement of his leaving. They just made a huge mistake imo. He was the biggest draw they had- now they'll be just like CNN/MSNBC and have basically no one watch their channel.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2023, 03:15:48 AM

Among the many mediots that were bad for America, he ended up worse than most. Intent on building up bad will and a divided country for attention and fame. 

Good riddance. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 25, 2023, 06:41:36 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 25, 2023, 03:15:48 AM

Among the many mediots that were bad for America, he ended up worse than most. Intent on building up bad will and a divided country for attention and fame.

Good riddance.

Not sure about the good riddance part.  He has an enormous and loyal following. 

He was quite harsh and brutal for my taste. But there were a couple of things you could count on him for:

- he attacked  divisiveness in the government and media relentlessly
- he attacked both parties without fear
- he asked a lot of questions that needed to be asked, when nobody else would.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 08:04:22 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 24, 2023, 07:09:50 PM

That's the point of my proposal - during the most-watched time-slots, everyone is required to provide the boring news with no ads.

You can watch the PBS News Hour if you wish, I used to at times.  It's not bad at all.

To me, Carlson was nothing more than an entertainer (for some).  If you watch that video I posted it's clear he once claimed to have "principles" that would preclude him from doing what he did.  I think he was just sounding tough and when the $$$ came along, he went for it with both feet.  He had a very popular time slot, no doubt, and his firing "cost" Fox Corp $600 million on the street.

Now, many are corrupted by $$$ no doubt, he's far from singular, but I view him as a hypocrite anyway.  (I am as well, or was at one time.)

I think if one doesn't expose oneself to a variety of news sources, one will miss what may be important news items and perspectives.  But if you watch only con or lib news sources, life will be a lot simpler and clearer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2023, 08:19:35 AM

Pretty simple to see where the media is these days.

I have msn.com as my home page, because I have since I've had a home computer.

Anyway, there are no fewer than 9 stories bashing TC or celebrating his exit.

Not ONE story about Don Lemon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 08:23:38 AM

I see stories about Lemon here and there, he wasn't the figure Carlson was of course.  I'm sure Fox will find a replacement, as  they did for O'Reilly.  I also figure to do this sort of show every night takes a LOT of staff who likely will remain.  I'm sure they prepare their pitch a few days ahead of time, the guy we see on camera just reads the prompter, perhaps with a bit of editorial influence (or not).  

"OK, team, we're going to do a story lambasting the COVID vaccine, OK?  It will be popular with our viewers, so get cracking and cherry pick whatever you can find to hammer it and get the script going for Thursday."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 25, 2023, 08:37:53 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2023, 08:19:35 AM

Pretty simple to see where the media is these days.

I have msn.com as my home page, because I have since I've had a home computer.

Anyway, there are no fewer than 9 stories bashing TC or celebrating his exit.

Not ONE story about Don Lemon.

Well I understand that to some degree. 

Don Lemon was never influential.  He was perceived more as a cartoonish character. He was more of an anchor delivering his version of the news. 

Love him or hate him- TC is influential.  He would choose the issues he would share on air and dive into them deeply. 

His departure creates a potential seismic shift in the ratings as well as topics that might be front and center. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 25, 2023, 08:48:27 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 08:23:38 AM

I see stories about Lemon here and there, he wasn't the figure Carlson was of course.  I'm sure Fox will find a replacement, as  they did for O'Reilly.  I also figure to do this sort of show every night takes a LOT of staff who likely will remain.  I'm sure they prepare their pitch a few days ahead of time, the guy we see on camera just reads the prompter, perhaps with a bit of editorial influence (or not). 

"OK, team, we're going to do a story lambasting the COVID vaccine, OK?  It will be popular with our viewers, so get cracking and cherry pick whatever you can find to hammer it and get the script going for Thursday."

Again- not a fan of TC.  But if there was ever someone on air who didn’t give a shit what was popular with the viewers- it was him.  He would attack republicans vigorously all the time.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 09:01:16 AM

I personally view Carlson as a schill who did whatever his staff put in front of him, and they knew what would play well with the viewers, else he would not get those ratings.  It's all about ratings in my view.  If they needed to misrepresent to get ratings, so be it.

Obviously, I have a very low opinion of the merits of that show.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 25, 2023, 09:16:18 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 09:01:16 AM

I personally view Carlson as a schill who did whatever his staff put in front of him, and they knew what would play well with the viewers, else he would not get those ratings.  It's all about ratings in my view.  If they needed to misrepresent to get ratings, so be it.

Obviously, I have a very low opinion of the merits of that show.

We might agree on having a low opinion of the show.  But I would opine that your 180 degrees wrong about staff putting stuff in front of him to appease viewers. In fact- it appears to be one of several reasons he is not there anymore.  

He choose to air things management at Fox was uncomfortable with.  That was his calling card so to speak.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2023, 09:19:55 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 25, 2023, 09:16:18 AM

We might agree on having a low opinion of the show.  But I would opine that your 180 degrees wrong about staff putting stuff in front of him to appease viewers. In fact- it appears to be one of several reasons he is not there anymore. 

He chose to air things management at Fox was uncomfortable with.  That was his calling card so to speak. 

This.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2023, 09:21:59 AM

I suspect TC will end up somewhere, and probably soon. He's in demand. It's already out there that Newsmax has reached out. 

Can they afford him? 

Can they afford not to afford him?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 09:35:28 AM

I think it obvious that Carlson couldn't generate all this material on his own.  Now MAYBE he had full control and directed folks himself to prepare information for the stories.  I don't doubt he did some of this, they likely had staff meetings with him present in the AM.  They'd review the material for the night's show with him, and discuss what would be the next day etc.  They likely had 5-6 segments lined up ahead of time.  

It's also possible he had relatively little influence in all of this, that I can't know.  And likely whatever influence he had grew over time, if he wished to exert it.  My guess is a lot of this stuff was developed by the producer and a few others and basically handed to Carlson to parrot on TV.  

But to me, he is mostly a Figurehead who had a reading style a lot of folks liked.  (I could hardly stand to listen to him myself if someone posted a youtube of a segment.)

They'll find someone else about as good I think.  Fox management will likely give them stricter guidelines and editorial oversight.  The Smartmatic thing is still looming.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 25, 2023, 09:44:06 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 09:35:28 AM

I think it obvious that Carlson couldn't generate all this material on his own.  Now MAYBE he had full control and directed folks himself to prepare information for the stories.  I don't doubt he did some of this, they likely had staff meetings with him present in the AM.  They'd review the material for the night's show with him, and discuss what would be the next day etc.  They likely had 5-6 segments lined up ahead of time. 

It's also possible he had relatively little influence in all of this, that I can't know.  And likely whatever influence he had grew over time, if he wished to exert it.  My guess is a lot of this stuff was developed by the producer and a few others and basically handed to Carlson to parrot on TV. 

But to me, he is mostly a Figurehead who had a reading style a lot of folks liked.  (I could hardly stand to listen to him myself if someone posted a youtube of a segment.)

They'll find someone else about as good I think.  Fox management will likely give them stricter guidelines and editorial oversight.  The Smartmatic thing is still looming.

Boy- you are really stuck on this opinion- that TC had little to do with chosen topics and when/how to present them.  You keep repeating it. 
you may be right- but his reputation and the evidence ( if you read about how he operated), points toward-he was his own person and had nearly total control of the topics and position on them.  Otherwise- he would still be there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2023, 09:50:31 AM

By every account, TC is a control freak and very difficult to work with as a result.

I'm honestly surprised he lasted as long as he did. 

I thought he got too big for the room.

We have watched Jesse Watters a few times lately. He's like a TC-lite.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 09:51:24 AM

I remember folks claimed it was a huge change when TC replaced O'Reilly.  It wasn't, in my view, at all.  The staff remained, the process remained.  They'll find someone else and life will go on.  Viewers will flock back because the CORE tactic is to feed people what they want to hear.

That won't change.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 25, 2023, 10:06:47 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 09:51:24 AM

I remember folks claimed it was a huge change when TC replaced O'Reilly.  It wasn't, in my view, at all.  The staff remained, the process remained.  They'll find someone else and life will go on.  Viewers will flock back because the CORE tactic is to feed people what they want to hear.

That won't change.

This is all true.  At least historically it has been for all of the MSM networks.   

Even though  I don’t pay much attention to Fox ( or any of the other MSM), I am grateful they exist if for no other reason than to counter balance the other 5, which are all left leaning at varying degrees.  Too much groupthink- which is what TC was against and why whatever he talked about was pleasing to his audience.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 10:10:28 AM

FOXA dropped about 3% yesterday and is stable today.  That seems reasonable to me.

A thing I like about the business news outlets is they usually are close to down the middle in coverage and avoid headlines like "Star A dazzles in string bikini".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2023, 10:37:06 AM

I'm going to give CNBC a shot tonight at 7PM. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2023, 10:39:11 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2023, 10:37:06 AM

I'm going to give CNBC a shot tonight at 7PM.

Godspeed. Hope it’s ok. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 25, 2023, 10:39:15 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 10:10:28 AM

FOXA dropped about 3% yesterday and is stable today.  That seems reasonable to me.

A thing I like about the business news outlets is they usually are close to down the middle in coverage and avoid headlines like "Star A dazzles in string bikini".

CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC and MSNBC are nowhere near the middle.  The idea that they are is actually humorous.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2023, 10:43:29 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 25, 2023, 10:39:11 AM

Godspeed. Hope it’s ok.

It's geared toward business. I imagine it will be OK.

I've also watched Fox Business. Much different than watching Fox News.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 25, 2023, 10:45:10 AM

I'd watch a WSJ channel.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2023, 10:46:43 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2023, 09:19:55 AM

This.

Feels like the company’s management is, to a degree, not comfortable with the audience it helped build. Will be interesting to see their next step. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 25, 2023, 10:50:58 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 25, 2023, 10:39:15 AM

CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC and MSNBC are nowhere near the middle.  The idea that they are is actually humorous. 

I wouldn't call any of those business news.

CNBC and Fox Business are really the only two I watch

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2023, 10:54:28 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 25, 2023, 10:45:10 AM

I'd watch a WSJ channel.

Absolutely, and I think it will eventually happen. It's overdue. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2023, 10:55:05 AM

Quote from: ELA on April 25, 2023, 10:50:58 AM

I wouldn't call any of those business news.

CNBC and Fox Business are really the only two I watch

1. Correct


2. Good to know

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 10:55:35 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 25, 2023, 10:39:15 AM

CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC and MSNBC are nowhere near the middle.  The idea that they are is actually humorous. 

Did anyone here claim they were?

The opinion obviously relates to one's own leanings.  I know a person on FB who claims MSNBC is right wing, and a posted on A51 (now gone for some reason) claimed Fox News was left wing.

The "middle" is defined by the individual.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 10:56:21 AM

When I'm in our gym I usually turn on CNBC if I'm alone.  I just want to check what the market is doing and see if they have a story of any interest.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 25, 2023, 11:10:45 AM

I'll continue to watch BTN and the Food Network

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 25, 2023, 11:14:31 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 25, 2023, 11:10:45 AM

I'll continue to watch BTN and the Food Network

You Todd Blackledge?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 11:17:28 AM

My wife likes that House Garden channel a lot.  And Hallmark.  She watches a lot more TV than I do.  I'll watch some Law and Order reruns with her a bit.  Pretty often I tyrn on the TV and find nothing and just read.  It's nice to get youtube on the TV though at times, they have a few things worth watching.  I thought this was excellent.

Genius Of The Jet | The Invention Of The Jet Engine. | HD Documentary - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0T4-XG612Q)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2023, 11:31:05 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 25, 2023, 11:10:45 AM

I'll continue to watch BTN and the Food Network

You forgot the Cooking Channel.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2023, 11:31:40 AM

:86:

Fox News Fires The Only Reason People Watch Fox News | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/fox-news-fires-the-only-reason-people-watch-fox-news?utm_source=The Babylon Bee)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 25, 2023, 11:54:54 AM

For actual news- I just watch local. 

Every morning, over coffee, I check the website of all the all the MSM sources.  It usually gives clarity on things happening and the extremes often balance each other out.  It’s almost humorous at this point- like CDawg said the other day, the stories that do get covered, and especially the ones that don’t, reveal the tribal desires of the audience that particular outlet is pandering to.  

I will say- and this is anecdotal I admit- folks that don’t trust the media or politicians to tell them the truth- watch this stuff now with a big grain of salt.  It seems to be a very large % of us consumers.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2023, 12:03:19 PM

Im an animal planet guy

Dr Pol rules

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 25, 2023, 12:28:15 PM

I watch the local news.
I watch the local ABC channel because of the attritive young lady anchor.
Then out of laziness and lack of caring I stay on the channel and watch the ABC national news.

I don't watch either of them regularly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2023, 12:35:32 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 25, 2023, 12:28:15 PM

I watch the local news.
I watch the local ABC channel because of the attritive young lady anchor.
Then out of laziness and lack of caring I stay on the channel and watch the ABC national news.

I don't watch either of them regularly.

Heh. Wink News for me (A CBS affiliate here).


WINK News Team - WINK News (https://winknews.com/wink-news-team/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 25, 2023, 12:42:11 PM

Food Network seems to have become just a bunch of reality TV/competition shows.  Those bore me.

I liked the actual recipe/lifestyle shows, like Emeril or Mario Battali or Ina Garten.  I also liked watching Everyday Italian with Giada for... other reasons.

I believe some of those recipe/lifestyle shows moved to Cooking Channel, but that's on an extended tier now and I don't care enough to pay for it.

Similarly I liked a lot of the old DIY/home improvement/design shows on HGTV, but when they switched over to mostly reality/competition shows, I lost interest in that as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 25, 2023, 12:49:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 10:10:28 AM

avoid headlines like "Star A dazzles in string bikini".

Wait, you are trying to avoid this?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 25, 2023, 12:56:00 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 10:55:35 AM

Did anyone here claim they were?

The opinion obviously relates to one's own leanings.  I know a person on FB who claims MSNBC is right wing, and a posted on A51 (now gone for some reason) claimed Fox News was left wing.

The "middle" is defined by the individual.

They are definitely relative terms.

When I was in laws lawschool I used to go to breakfast sometimes with my dad and some of his friends. Without changing my ideology at all I could accurately say that I was:

• The resident liberal at breakfast and
• The resident conservative at lawschool

That said, I think when used as here the implication is that these terms are being used relative to the nation so "middle" is a national ideological "middle" which is more-or-less right between R's and D's.

Now if you are in Manhattan which typically votes around 90% Democrat then "middle" is a fairly liberal Democrat and someone who is "fairly liberal" nationally is "right wing" locally.

Conversely, if you are in Utah the opposite applies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 25, 2023, 12:57:32 PM

https://twitter.com/SportsStoriesDL/status/1650854173649563649?t=6joWPkCmiTSSVssFC7kSzw&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 25, 2023, 01:30:39 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/D5pGrT5.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 01:33:48 PM

A funny thing to me about France is how very educated people can be ultra liberal/socialist in views and concurrently extremely racist and intolerant of others.

Le Pen for example is a socialist.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 25, 2023, 01:36:09 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 10:55:35 AM

Did anyone here claim they were?

The opinion obviously relates to one's own leanings.  I know a person on FB who claims MSNBC is right wing, and a posted on A51 (now gone for some reason) claimed Fox News was left wing.

The "middle" is defined by the individual.

They obviously just mixed up their wings.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 25, 2023, 01:44:24 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 25, 2023, 03:15:48 AM

Among the many mediots that were bad for America, he ended up worse than most. Intent on building up bad will and a divided country for attention and fame.

Good riddance.

yeah, gonna have to agree to disagree with you on that big time. People like Maddow or Hannity who toe party establishment lines and push actual conspiracy theories (Russiagate! in Maddow's case or Obama is Kenyan and I'll pay for him to go home in Hannity's case) have done far more damage in dividing this country than Tucker could have ever dreamed of. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 25, 2023, 01:46:41 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 25, 2023, 06:41:36 AM

Not sure about the good riddance part.  He has an enormous and loyal following. 

He was quite harsh and brutal for my taste. But there were a couple of things you could count on him for:

- he attacked  divisiveness in the government and media relentlessly
- he attacked both parties without fear
- he asked a lot of questions that needed to be asked, when nobody else would.

agreed. he refused to toe the establishment party line- often called out the establishment wing of republicans like Mitch McConnell and Mitt Romney.

this is why he was fired- not to mention his private texts where he was bashing the fox news management and Murdoch himself. new revelations that came out today pretty much confirmed this, and it Rupert Murdoch who single handily pushed him out. 

if a massive c*nt like Murdoch fired him because he didn't like him- Tucker is OK in my book.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 25, 2023, 01:47:11 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 01:33:48 PM

A funny thing to me about France is how very educated people can be ultra liberal/socialist in views and concurrently extremely racist and intolerant of others.

Le Pen for example is a socialist.

It makes sense in many ways. Not necessarily "racism" per se, but intolerance of foreigners / immigrants. 

Socialism doesn't really work at scale for many obvious reasons, but on a smaller scale (say, a commune where everyone is fully committed and you thus don't have a free-rider problem) can be handled. The small example of course being a family--kids can't contribute, and sometimes it's determined it's better for one parent to stay home and handle child care while the other goes out to earn. So one parent goes out to earn, the other handles the household duties (kids, school, activities), and the kids are mostly just provided for but as they get older, it becomes clear that they will have duties to help out (chores, etc) as their capabilities to perform them build. 

The problem comes when someone is attracted to the "free" part but doesn't really care about the "work" part. In a true socialist system on a larger scale, the free rider problem eventually dooms the whole deal. (Often contributing are central planning, the lack of a market/price system to help determine allocation of resources and goods, etc -- which is why to a large extent most of Europe are social democracies, i.e. capitalist systems with a social safety net.)

In a place like France, where it's still more of a social democracy rather than socialist, where someone from "somewhere else" will come in and offer to work for wages that the French deem beneath themselves, because they don't believe they should be subject to such competition. They are seen as upsetting the natural order of things where you make a living wage for unskilled or low-skill work, and "they're taking our jobs." (Similar happens here of course.)

It's a VERY small logical leap to go from being angry or hating immigrants, to noticing that many of them share a similar color of skin or national origin, and hating all of that group. 

They're racist because the [differently colored skin] immigrants are ruining their socialist ideals by competing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 25, 2023, 01:48:43 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2023, 08:19:35 AM

Not ONE story about Don Lemon.

Lemon was essentially a nobody. I think his shows got 100,000 views if that. Tucker's shows were getting 3 million. 

I just think Tucker leaving was a much bigger story because he was the biggest thing on cable tv news. By a lot. The only one close to him was Maddow and she's no longer doing that show daily. I think she's on a couple times a month now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2023, 01:53:31 PM

What time does The View come on?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 25, 2023, 01:56:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 09:01:16 AM

I personally view Carlson as a schill who did whatever his staff put in front of him, and they knew what would play well with the viewers, else he would not get those ratings.  It's all about ratings in my view.  If they needed to misrepresent to get ratings, so be it.

Obviously, I have a very low opinion of the merits of that show.

you obviously don't watch his show if that's how you feel. segments on his show often ran counter to the establishment republican party narrative that Fox News pushes and has since it's inception. he was often in fights with his bosses in management at fox news over what he reported on- they often did not want him to do the segments that he did. he was the one and only Fox News anchor who flat out said Sidney Powell is a liar on air- when Fox News was pushing the stolen election bs- Tucker was ripping his bosses and the network behind the scenes in private texts- and we know this now because of the dominion law suit. 

sounds like he was let go because of riffs with management and his trashing of Rupert Murdoch in private texts. Probably going to get fired when your boss finds out you trash him in private texts and he's then able to read all the texts....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 25, 2023, 02:00:59 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2023, 01:53:31 PM

What time does The View come on?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URQg5_HjxKs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2023, 02:06:38 PM

Man, go out and look around on the interwebs. 

The number of hit pieces on TC today is staggering.

TDS is now Tucker Derangement Syndrome. Jeez.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 25, 2023, 02:26:49 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2023, 02:06:38 PM

Man, go out and look around on the interwebs.

The number of hit pieces on TC today is staggering.

TDS is now Tucker Derangement Syndrome. Jeez.

he railed against the establishment. it's all about manufacturing consent....they have to discredit him in order to discredit the VERY valid points he has brought up on a wide range of topics on many of his segments...

Tucker was fired for doing pieces like this....show me one other cable tv news anchor actor who run segments like this...that is why he was fired. He was getting too popular and his anti-war, anti-establishment stances were too hot button for the management and owner of Fox (Murdoch). 

BTW...70+% of news media's advertisers are....big pharma companies. The US remains one of only two countries in the developed world where drug companies are allowed to advertise. I believe New Zealand is the only other one. 


https://twitter.com/buttonslives/status/1650541512105635840?s=20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGekTdtvT84

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5T1pVKfJ9M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68MhtliIAvk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrYN3e4sq8I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJbotUgx6D8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Y42E-YNFWk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE7OfU71Sbk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we7-PH5UXlQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSGf2ZpDENU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-yba3R6IBY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7I5mrWipls

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzpCKjl8OxQ



https://twitter.com/lhfang/status/1650561201791963140?s=20



https://twitter.com/KyleKulinski/status/984190994139762688?s=20



https://twitter.com/nashville_brook/status/1650876576127492097?s=20



https://twitter.com/Kanthan2030/status/1650652404482969602?s=20



https://twitter.com/RobertKennedyJr/status/1650550341027475479?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 02:27:05 PM

I don't watch TC at all except occasional You Tube clips of it.  As I said, I personally view him as an opportunist, hypocrite, and liar.  But to each his own.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 25, 2023, 02:31:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 02:27:05 PM

I don't watch TC at all except occasional You Tube clips of it.  As I said, I personally view him as an opportunist, hypocrite, and liar.  But to each his own.

I disagree with him on A LOT of things...especially immigration. 

But he runs segments that no one else in cable tv news will dare run. He'll invite people on that no one else in cable tv news dare will. He'll stand up for people that no one else in cable tv news will dare stand up for (Assange). He's got my respect for that and that alone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 02:39:16 PM

Whether I disagree with him or not is irrelevant to me.  He's a liar in my book, someone who is deceptive and conniving and a hypocrite.  In other words, a rather typical TV personality.  He's not worth spit to me, I think he's far more damaging than helpful to anyone.

I hope he ends up on Newsmax or something equally uncredible and simply disappears.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 02:43:38 PM

Some good news, maybe, when we moved, I lost my flight bag and license and log book and two headsets, bummer.  Anyway, I found on the FAA site a way to get a new license and sent in the form, and $2, and today in the mail came my restored license.

Now all I'd need is a medical and about 8-10 hours of dual to be back in good stead.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 25, 2023, 03:00:32 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2023, 01:53:31 PM

What time does The View come on?

When you and other employed people are working. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 25, 2023, 03:01:38 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 02:27:05 PM

I don't watch TC at all except occasional You Tube clips of it.  As I said, I personally view him as an opportunist, hypocrite, and liar.  But to each his own.

That’s funny. That is not an uncommon view.

The irony is that he got so popular by exposing the lies of politicians- in both parties, and by asking tough questions nobody else in the establishment  wanted asked,

like nearly all of us have acknowledged in here at one time or another- we don’t trust most in politics or media because they are “ opportunist, hypocritites, and liars”

He made it his mission to expose that.  Ironic.
And most of those cheering his departure are the ones he had exposed. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 03:02:45 PM

I think he made it his mission to attract a large audience using deception and clever editing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2023, 03:04:48 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 03:02:45 PM

I think he made it his mission to attract a large audience using deception and clever editing.

careful there CD your color is showing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 25, 2023, 03:07:43 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 03:02:45 PM

I think he made it his mission to attract a large audience using deception and clever editing.

He exposed clever editing of others more often than not, and asked questions that exposed others deception. 

you know when a guy shows long detailed video that was previously kept hidden from the public, and asks consumers to come to their own conclusion- and those who kept it hidden in the first place are the ones going Apoplectic- he is on to something. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 25, 2023, 03:09:13 PM

Apparently Tucker and Lemon hired the same attorney to handle their firings.  Makes sense, they are probably friends behind the scenes.  Both opportunists, who just feed their sheep whatever they want to hear.  I'm sure if you told them they'd have to flip parties to make money, they both would.

For those cheering and/or lamenting either.  They'll just replace them with the same empty suit, who will continue the same pandering, but without a large enough platform to become controversial...until they do

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 25, 2023, 03:15:44 PM

Quote from: ELA on April 25, 2023, 03:09:13 PM

Apparently Tucker and Lemon hired the same attorney to handle their firings.  Makes sense, they are probably friends behind the scenes.  Both opportunists, who just feed their sheep whatever they want to hear.  I'm sure if you told them they'd have to flip parties to make money, they both would.

For those cheering and/or lamenting either.  They'll just replace them with the same empty suit, who will continue the same pandering, but without a large enough platform to become controversial...until they do

I hope they do replace him. He was (TC) a jackass but he was the ONLY one asking people to think about the shit we are all being fed, instead of just eating it. All the other stuffed suits are redundant.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2023, 03:20:03 PM

Hey Ive got an idea why dont Lemon and TC just switch networks and see where the fans go

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2023, 03:21:28 PM

If I was CNN Id be on the horn to TC offering him mega bucks to come there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 25, 2023, 03:26:18 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 25, 2023, 03:20:03 PM

Hey Ive got an idea why dont Lemon and TC just switch networks and see where the fans go

Hell, up until 10ish years ago that wasn't a crazy idea.

First came to know Tucker as the brilliant R who could go toe to toe with who I think is a brilliant D debater (James Carville) on CNN.  Back when that was their one opinion show.

Even Sean Hannity rose to fame as a similar style Hannity and Combs show on Fox

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 25, 2023, 03:28:59 PM

guys start out as something

then when full of fame, they many times sell out to the $$$

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 25, 2023, 03:33:49 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 25, 2023, 03:28:59 PM

guys start out as something

then when full of fame, they many times sell out to the $$$

Yep.  Hell to take it out of politics, look who is still on the air at ESPN.  The loudest, most hot take, insufferable personalities.  That sells.  Particularly when people don't sit down and watch Sportscenter, but Stephen A. Smith might be trending on Twitter because of some aggressive, horrible take.  You get clicks.  Same with cable news.  I don't watch any of it, but I see it when one of them is trending on Twitter for some nutty rant

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 25, 2023, 03:37:55 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 25, 2023, 02:31:22 PM

I disagree with him on A LOT of things...especially immigration.

This is most likely because you've made the mistake of believing the corporate media, DNC, and RNC.

I'll concede that there are plenty of studies indicating that immigration is great for us economically but you need to concede that there is a STRONG pull for those studies. Academics who "prove" that immigration is good for us get grants, book deals, invites to national news shows, etc. Any academic whose studies prove the opposite gets called racist and effectively blacklisted.

The studies "proving" that immigration is a net positive economically are the best BS money can buy and there is a LOT of money involved.

What opened my eyes:
Here in Medina, Ohio our local courts pay a not insignificant amount of money EVERY month for translators for indigent non-english-speaking criminal defendants. When I learned that, I was shocked because this is a relatively affluent community with a miniscule immigrant population.

Per world population review (https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/immigrants-by-state), Ohio's percentage of foreign born population is only 5%, 14th lowest among the 50 states and by far the lowest among populous states.

Then, per Cleveland.com (https://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/2017/12/ranking_every_ohio_city_county_5.html) (Plain Dealer website), Medina City and County have miniscule foreign born populations of just 2.3% and 2.8% respectively.

If Medina, with our miniscule immigrant population has so much crime committed by non-english-speaking indigent criminals that they need translators EVERY month then how bad is the problem nationally? To ask the question is to know the answer, the problem is massive.

Beyond crime, there are the other economic impacts. Since our country operates at a significant budget deficit it is plainly obvious that all of those below the average are paying less in taxes than they are receiving in services. Thus, any immigrant earning below the national average is a net drain on economic resources.

The other catastrophic economic impact is on Social Security and Medicare. Those born in the US pay into both out of every paycheck they receive from their first McDonald's paycheck at age 14 to their last WalMart greeter paycheck in retirement. Even at that, both systems are comically underfunded so an immigrant who arrives after part of their working life has already passed will be a drain on Social Security and Medicare as well, unless they make a LOT of money.

Finally competition:
While our country has labor shortages in certain professions, we most certainly do NOT have a shortage of unskilled labor. Letting in Doctors, Professors, Engineers, and Programmers is one thing (and might actually be a net economic positive) but letting in unskilled laborers only increases the competition for already scarce jobs and dramatically increases income inequality.

Back when he actually cared about American Workers, Bernie Sanders called Open Borders a "Koch Brothers idea" because it makes everybody in America (https://youtu.be/vf-k6qOfXz0) poorer.

Open borders are great, at least temporarily, for the Ultra-Wealthy. They get cheaper servants and employees and they get to push the externalities off on the rest of us.

For the upper middle class, massive immigration is at best a wash. They get somewhat cheaper services but their taxes and/or the government deficits go up.

For the great majority, massive immigration is a slow-motion catastrophe.

Here is a typical on-narrative corporate media article (https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-construction-trump/) where they explan that SoCal Construction work went from a great job in 1980* to a crappy one in 2017 (date of publication). They then blame lack of union representation while sticking their fingers in their ears and ignoring WHY those workers don't have Unions anymore.

Unions only succeed if the laborers can't be easily replaced. In that case striking workers have to be given concessions to keep them around. When there are PLENTY of replacement workers available the high-pay Union outfits get undercut by low-wage outfits.

*In the article they state that the construction workforce in 1980 was about 2/3 White and later they have a graph that says it was about 24% Hispanic. They don't mention anyone else or explain the other ~10% but it was probably mostly Black with a few Asians. Today it is ~70% Hispanic and they don't tell us the makeup of the other ~30%.

Gee, I wonder where all the high paid White and Black construction workers went.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 25, 2023, 03:39:04 PM

Quote from: ELA on April 25, 2023, 03:26:18 PM

Even Sean Hannity rose to fame as a similar style Hannity and Combs show on Fox

Eh. Fox has a history of putting feckless Ds on those shows. 

Combs couldn't argue his way out of a paper bag. He was up there just to make the "liberal" side look bad. 

They did the same thing with the show The Five, with Bob Beckel being their liberal punching bag who was just a joke. 

It's not a real "debate" show if you basically have an adult arguing against the equivalent of a 12 year old. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2023, 03:39:37 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 25, 2023, 03:00:32 PM

When you and other employed people are working.

Makes perfect sense. ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 25, 2023, 03:41:19 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 25, 2023, 03:39:04 PM

Eh. Fox has a history of putting feckless Ds on those shows.

Combs couldn't argue his way out of a paper bag. He was up there just to make the "liberal" side look bad.

They did the same thing with the show The Five, with Bob Beckel being their liberal punching bag who was just a joke.

It's not a real "debate" show if you basically have an adult arguing against the equivalent of a 12 year old.

Oh, I agree.  I just mean even Fox wasn't so brazen 20 years ago to just have a Sean Hannity show.  They managed to stick a feckless liberal across from him

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 25, 2023, 04:04:24 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 25, 2023, 03:39:04 PM

Eh. Fox has a history of putting feckless Ds on those shows.

Combs couldn't argue his way out of a paper bag. He was up there just to make the "liberal" side look bad.

They did the same thing with the show The Five, with Bob Beckel being their liberal punching bag who was just a joke.

My dad used to watch Hannity/Combs and the Mclaughlin Group and I hated both for this and another reason.

Way back in maybe the 2000 election they had Hannity interview the R and Combs interview the D. Both interviews were stupidly positive with literally no hard questions. The interviewer was basically a cheerleader.

Flip it, give me hard hitting Hannity vs D and Combs vs R interviews and I'll watch.

McGlaughlin illustrated my other issue. Their resident Democrat was Elanor Clift and I don't think she EVER disagreed with the DNC line. I much preferred Buchanan because he had his own thoughts and opinions. He was conservative but he didn't just blindly follow the RNC line. That was my bigger issue with Hannity/Combs, they were just R and D versions of Elanor Clift, blindly cheering on their assigned side.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 25, 2023, 04:28:54 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on April 25, 2023, 04:04:24 PM

My dad used to watch Hannity/Combs and the Mclaughlin Group and I hated both for this and another reason.

I can't think of him without the genius Dana Carvey

https://youtu.be/koFlWXgX52E

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 25, 2023, 04:37:36 PM

Quote from: ELA on April 25, 2023, 04:28:54 PM

I can't think of him without the genius Dana Carvey

https://youtu.be/koFlWXgX52E

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂.    Thanks for posting that.  I had forgotten     I laughed just as hard today as when that aired live.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 04:59:55 PM

Weekend Update: Jane, You Ignorant Slut - SNL - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c91XUyg9iWM)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 25, 2023, 05:08:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 04:59:55 PM

Weekend Update: Jane, You Ignorant Slut - SNL - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c91XUyg9iWM)

I couldn't find a short and unedited version but one of my all-time favorites was Mick Jagger (playing Keith Richards) looking at Mike Meyers (playing Mick Jagger) and saying "Mick you ignorant slut".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 25, 2023, 05:24:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 04:59:55 PM

Weekend Update: Jane, You Ignorant Slut - SNL - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c91XUyg9iWM)

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 04:59:55 PM

Weekend Update: Jane, You Ignorant Slut - SNL - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c91XUyg9iWM)

One of the all time bests!   😂😂😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 25, 2023, 08:53:23 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/342991995_193667916851899_2444940669400557762_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=NZdcX9E-lcYAX9AWTBz&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAy6VVt_lxriGfF3rLqtbXpY_zm5uansHpi2WS1SdsdHQ&oe=644CD26F)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 25, 2023, 09:53:17 PM

John Mulaney, a hilarious comedian, being dragged on social media, when his new special came out, because he "allowed" Dave Chappelle, the GOAT, to open for him a year ago.  Because Dave Chappelle, who spent his entire career intelligently poking fun of everyone, and apparently made fun of someone you aren't allowed to make fun of, is why comedy is dying.

Andrew Dice Clay sucked, because he punched down, without being smart.  If you do it well, like Chapelle, Rock, Pryor, Carlin, nothing should be off limits.  Instead we are being told awful comics, who don't offend anybody, are funny.  They aren't.  Offensive comics are also frequently unfunny.  But the best comics offend and challenge you, and I'm worried we are going to lose them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2023, 10:23:47 PM

Quote from: ELA on April 25, 2023, 09:53:17 PM

John Mulaney, a hilarious comedian, being dragged on social media, when his new special came out, because he "allowed" Dave Chappelle, the GOAT, to open for him a year ago.  Because Dave Chappelle, who spent his entire career intelligently poking fun of everyone, and apparently made fun of someone you aren't allowed to make fun of, is why comedy is dying.

Andrew Dice Clay sucked, because he punched down, without being smart.  If you do it well, like Chapelle, Rock, Pryor, Carlin, nothing should be off limits.  Instead we are being told awful comics, who don't offend anybody, are funny.  They aren't.  Offensive comics are also frequently unfunny.  But the best comics offend and challenge you, and I'm worried we are going to lose them

its amazing what little sense of humor some groups have

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 25, 2023, 10:57:27 PM

So, I can't find the original post, but my wife reluctantly pulled me into foster parenthood in early 2019. We've got two boys, and she wanted a third, I didn't, that was the compromise. I was worried it was a back door way to adopt a third, which I immediately told the agency it wasn't, she I think still wanted to. She's adopted herself.

In a crazy set of circumstances a baby was born in a toilet near the hospital, when the mother fled due to being high, a parole violation. We got a call. My wife visited her every day in the hospital because she was two months premature. But amazingly, she was healthy. No health problems, no signs of withdrawal from her user mom. She was just small.

We brought her home 2 weeks later, and she won me over. In a lot of ways our bond was closer than with my two biological sons. I was wrong, we wanted to adopt her. Her mother subsequently died of an OD, and father had a lengthy criminal history. They put up a non family member/friend, but there was no family option. We got a notice, after 6 months, that the state finally agreed with her guardian ad litem that the best thing for her was to move forward with adoption. The judge disagreed, and awarded immediate custody to the family friend. No transition period. We had 5 minutes to say goodbye.

We are handed over all of the clothes we bought her except her Christmas dress and the MSU cheerleader outfit she hadn't grown into yet.

Well, we had a little dude early COVID. We knew it was short term. His birth mom was clean but low functioning. So she just needed a support system. She got it. He was with us for about 6 weeks.

2 days after Christmas 2020 we got a third placement. This past Friday, after two and a half years, many court battles, the adoption was finalized.

We thought about changing her name, because we never would have chosen it on our own. But her name, Patience, kind of seemed appropriate.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 26, 2023, 01:13:17 AM

That's beautiful, @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on April 26, 2023, 01:28:18 AM

amazing 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2023, 05:37:30 AM

Tucker Carlson is gone but Fox News' politics remain the same | CNN Politics (https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/25/politics/tucker-carlson-what-matters/index.html)

This opinion piece is predictable, but had a nugget in it I think:

Carlson is that rare anchor who has now been on all three major cable news networks – CNN, MSNBC and Fox. He also once hosted a program on PBS.
He is, in short, the ultimate professional pundit who has shapeshifted over the course of his decades in front of very different audiences on television.
Text messages privately acknowledging he knew Trump’s election lies were lies unmasked him (https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/08/media/fox-news-dominion-filings-reliable-sources/index.html). But what remains to be seen is whether he will seek to carry the torch for the same audience without the oxygen of a TV show or whether he will shift once more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 26, 2023, 08:28:56 AM

That's fantastic, AAA.  Thanks for sharing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2023, 09:45:17 AM

Interesting take here.

(https://i.imgur.com/HuQp3hp.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2023, 10:01:52 AM

Senator Ed Markey (D-MA) is calling on Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas to resign over allegations of corruption spanning more than two decades. He is the first sitting U.S. Senator to do so.

“It is evident that he cannot judge right from wrong, so why should he be judging the country’s most important cases on its highest court?” Sen. Markey asked.

The three Massachusetts Democrats spoke as they kicked off a 20-city bus tour Monday from Boston, focusing on strengthening ethics in the nation’s highest court, as the Boston Globe reports.

“The court must take action in order to rebuild its legitimacy by enforcing its own recusal rules, adopting a binding code of conduct, strengthening restrictions on gifts of privately funded travel, and increasing the transparency of justices’ financial dealings and interests,” Markey also said.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2023, 10:08:26 AM

Clarence Thomas is not alone. Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch has also benefitted financially from parties with an interest in the high court’s business while neglecting to disclose the relationship, growing concerns over corruption within the institution.

Politico reported on Tuesday that Gorsuch had been trying to sell a piece of land in Colorado for nearly two years before Brian Duffy — the CEO of Greenberg Traurig, a law firm whose cases often find their way before the Supreme Court — bought it on April 16, 2017.


The exact date is significant. It was only nine days after Gorsuch was confirmed.

Gorsuch noted on federal disclosure forms that he made between $250,001 and $500,000 on the sale. The forms included a space where Gorsuch could have disclosed the identity of the purchaser, but he left it blank. Politico notes that Greenberg Traurig has since had 22 cases come before the court, and that in the 12 instances in which Gorsuch’s opinion was recorded, he sided with his benefactor’s firm on eight of them — including one that damaged the Clean Air Act.

The revelation comes a day after Harlan Crow — the billionaire conservative megadonor who has been treating Clarence Thomas to lavish gifts for decades — did indeed have business before the Supreme Court. Bloomberg reported on Monday that Trammell Crow Residential Co. had a case before the court in 2005, and that there’s no indication Thomas recused himself. Thomas said earlier this month that he didn’t report the gifts, which included yacht trips and stays at a private resort, because Crow didn’t have business before the court. (Crow says he was not involved in the Trammell Crow Residential Co. case.)

Thomas’ relationship with Crow — which also involves Crow buying $133,000 of real estate from Thomas’ family — has led Democrats to push for more oversight of the Supreme Court. Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) has the committee “will act” in response to the revelations about Thomas, while progressive lawmakers like Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) have called for his impeachment. “I think this has gone far, far beyond any sort of acceptable standard in any democracy, let alone in American democracy,” she said recently.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 26, 2023, 10:57:02 AM

Wow, congratulations @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) !

Are you buying a bus? Did I understand correctly, two biological and three foster meaning FIVE kids?

I have three and feel cramped in a minivan. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2023, 11:05:11 AM

Senators unveil bipartisan proposal to require Supreme Court to adopt code of conduct  | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3972535-senators-unveil-bipartisan-proposal-to-require-supreme-court-to-adopt-code-of-conduct/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2023, 11:12:26 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 26, 2023, 11:05:11 AM

Senators unveil bipartisan proposal to require Supreme Court to adopt code of conduct  | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3972535-senators-unveil-bipartisan-proposal-to-require-supreme-court-to-adopt-code-of-conduct/)

Next, they can look at their own conduct.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 26, 2023, 11:29:03 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on April 26, 2023, 10:57:02 AM

Wow, congratulations @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) !

Are you buying a bus? Did I understand correctly, two biological and three foster meaning FIVE kids?

I have three and feel cramped in a minivan.

Ha, no, 2 bio, and 1 foster (now adopted).  She was our third foster placement, but we never had more than one at a time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2023, 11:34:56 AM

Quote from: ELA on April 26, 2023, 11:29:03 AM

Ha, no, 2 bio, and 1 foster (now adopted).  She was our third foster placement, but we never had more than one at a time

Bless you. I'm an adopted kid and I can never stop appreciating that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 26, 2023, 11:38:57 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2023, 11:34:56 AM

Bless you. I'm an adopted kid and I can never stop appreciating that.

As is my wife, so this was always sort of her pay it forward plan

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2023, 12:41:14 PM

Why some Republicans see Carlson’s departure as a good thing | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3971575-why-some-republicans-see-carlsons-departure-as-a-good-thing/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 26, 2023, 01:48:11 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2023, 11:12:26 AM

Next, they can look at their own conduct.

(https://i.imgur.com/Dl7RRWH.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2023, 01:54:11 PM

We took the boat to Boca Grande last weekend.

SPOTTED! Tucker Carlson Breaks Silence on Fox News Firing While Cruising Around Boca Grande in a Golf Cart (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/spotted-tucker-carlson-breaks-silence-on-fox-news-firing-while-cruising-around-boca-grande-in-a-golf-cart/ar-AA1anIdy?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=acf4233252c9406289c19dcaab4bd0ed&ei=11)

(https://i.imgur.com/nmuilHY.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 26, 2023, 02:05:58 PM

Anyone interested in a 54' sailboat in St Croix? My sister and her husband are selling theirs. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2023, 02:10:26 PM

If I could put 3 turbodiesel motors in... maybe?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 26, 2023, 02:17:37 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2023, 02:10:26 PM

If I could put 3 turbodiesel motors in... maybe?

Yeah, when I heard I thought out you, but I know you're a powerboat guy...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 26, 2023, 02:44:25 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 26, 2023, 02:05:58 PM

Anyone interested in a 54' sailboat in St Croix? My sister and her husband are selling theirs.

Sorry. I wouldn't consider even an inch below 60' for my next sailboat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2023, 03:02:24 PM

too far to go for me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 26, 2023, 04:36:58 PM

Quote from: ELA on April 25, 2023, 10:57:27 PM

So, I can't find the original post, but my wife reluctantly pulled me into foster parenthood in early 2019. We've got two boys, and she wanted a third, I didn't, that was the compromise. I was worried it was a back door way to adopt a third, which I immediately told the agency it wasn't, she I think still wanted to. She's adopted herself.

In a crazy set of circumstances a baby was born in a toilet near the hospital, when the mother fled due to being high, a parole violation. We got a call. My wife visited her every day in the hospital because she was two months premature. But amazingly, she was healthy. No health problems, no signs of withdrawal from her user mom. She was just small.

We brought her home 2 weeks later, and she won me over. In a lot of ways our bond was closer than with my two biological sons. I was wrong, we wanted to adopt her. Her mother subsequently died of an OD, and father had a lengthy criminal history. They put up a non family member/friend, but there was no family option. We got a notice, after 6 months, that the state finally agreed with her guardian ad litem that the best thing for her was to move forward with adoption. The judge disagreed, and awarded immediate custody to the family friend. No transition period. We had 5 minutes to say goodbye.

We are handed over all of the clothes we bought her except her Christmas dress and the MSU cheerleader outfit she hadn't grown into yet.

Well, we had a little dude early COVID. We knew it was short term. His birth mom was clean but low functioning. So she just needed a support system. She got it. He was with us for about 6 weeks.

2 days after Christmas 2020 we got a third placement. This past Friday, after two and a half years, many court battles, the adoption was finalized.

We thought about changing her name, because we never would have chosen it on our own. But her name, Patience, kind of seemed appropriate.

That's just absolutely wonderful. In the most universal way possible, bless you. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 26, 2023, 04:37:52 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2023, 09:45:17 AM

Interesting take here.

(https://i.imgur.com/HuQp3hp.png)

RFK Jr is for the most part a dingbag.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2023, 05:19:04 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 26, 2023, 04:37:52 PM

RFK Jr is for the most part a dingbag.

Well, he's running to unseat the current POTUS (and VPOTUS).

Pick your poison, I reckon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 26, 2023, 05:28:31 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 26, 2023, 04:37:52 PM

RFK Jr is for the most part a dingbag.

The RFK offspring fell very far from the tree

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2023, 05:33:07 PM

Quote from: ELA on April 26, 2023, 05:28:31 PM

The RFK offspring fell very far from the tree

Oh yes they sure did.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2023, 05:40:04 PM

Tucker Carlson’s disparaging comments about Fox leaders led to his ouster: report | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/media/3972590-tucker-carlsons-disparaging-comments-fox-leaders-ouster-report/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 26, 2023, 07:37:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 26, 2023, 05:40:04 PM

Tucker Carlson’s disparaging comments about Fox leaders led to his ouster: report | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/media/3972590-tucker-carlsons-disparaging-comments-fox-leaders-ouster-report/)

As Ive told my children several times dont ever put anything in a private email that you dont want your present or future bosses to know

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 26, 2023, 09:17:42 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 26, 2023, 02:05:58 PM

Anyone interested in a 54' sailboat in St Croix? My sister and her husband are selling theirs.

(https://i.imgur.com/bbip93D.jpg)

"It's the Caribbean, guys.  El Caribe.  The Spanish Main.  It's the land of hoodoo and voodoo and all kinda weird shit."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2023, 09:43:08 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 26, 2023, 07:37:57 PM

As Ive told my children several times dont ever put anything in a private email that you dont want your present or future bosses to know

Fu c'em if they can't take a joke

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 26, 2023, 10:39:36 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 26, 2023, 09:43:08 PM

Fu c'em if they can't take a joke

some folks really cant take a joke

very sad

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2023, 11:04:28 AM

Elon Musk on Housing Bubble: ‘They Dug Their Own Graves' (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/elon-musk-on-housing-bubble-they-dug-their-own-graves/ar-AA16rsA9?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=1a46bbf13cc2414a8d829b4187f68257&ei=27)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 27, 2023, 11:09:38 AM

that's usually the case

good to have a genius point out the obvious

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2023, 11:11:26 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 27, 2023, 11:09:38 AM

that's usually the case

good to have a genius point out the obvious

Agreed, but so many cannot see the forest through the trees.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 27, 2023, 11:13:09 AM

one of Musk's qualities that I like is that he will speak his mind 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 27, 2023, 11:15:37 AM

Yeah but he so often says really stupid things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2023, 11:16:30 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 27, 2023, 11:15:37 AM

Yeah but he so often says really stupid things.

I think he does that on purpose, to be honest. Dumb like a fox and all that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 27, 2023, 11:17:29 AM

Elon and genius should never be mentioned in the same sentence.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2023, 11:25:44 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on April 27, 2023, 11:17:29 AM

Elon and genius should never be mentioned in the same sentence.

??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 27, 2023, 11:25:59 AM

I was being sarcastic

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 27, 2023, 11:31:33 AM

Looked at Zillow, as I tend to do. My city, looking for single family houses <$1M, 3br/2ba minimum, >1500 sf. 

Zero listings. 

FFS.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 27, 2023, 11:42:25 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2023, 11:16:30 AM

I think he does that on purpose, to be honest. Dumb like a fox and all that.

I don't.  I think he's mostly just dumb.  And often, high, when he makes his sweeping generalizations that he believes are special nuggets of truth.

He's one of those people that thinks he's smarter than everyone else, because he has made a lot of money.

Anyway, he doesn't affect my life at all, so it's not something I think about much, other than gabbing on a message board forum.

I do like what SpaceX has been doing, so that's a point in his favor I suppose.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2023, 12:00:16 PM

I dont think he loses much sleep worrying about what others think of him

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2023, 12:02:43 PM

I peeked at condos around us and found this guy:

40 12th St NE UNIT 1901, Atlanta, GA 30309 | MLS #10152689 | Zillow (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/40-12th-St-NE-UNIT-1901-Atlanta-GA-30309/2057950206_zpid/)

Granted, this is new construction and the amenities are upscale, but $1.3 mil.  Most of them are around half a mil, some cheaper in older buildings.  The kicker in a condo is the HOA fee which may or may not cover some useful things, and may or may not end up with the HOA in trouble.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2023, 12:11:10 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 27, 2023, 11:42:25 AM

I don't.  I think he's mostly just dumb.  And often, high, when he makes his sweeping generalizations that he believes are special nuggets of truth.

He's one of those people that thinks he's smarter than everyone else, because he has made a lot of money.

Anyway, he doesn't affect my life at all, so it's not something I think about much, other than gabbing on a message board forum.

I do like what SpaceX has been doing, so that's a point in his favor I suppose.

I wish I was dumb enough to be a multi-billionaire.

He certainly does over-generalize things.

From my experience working on Federal projects, you can't get "high" on drugs. Random drugs tests are a requirement.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2023, 12:16:44 PM

FWIW, I just bought some CDs 1 year at 5.1% (which is losing ground after inflation/taxes).  The 3 year dropped to 4.6% (inverted yield curve).

This was not a special deal, just through my broker (who from time to time ...)...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 27, 2023, 12:25:57 PM

not losing ground as fast as the S&P500

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2023, 12:40:25 PM

With superstar concerts and NBA playoffs, here’s how to get around downtown Atlanta this weekend – WSB-TV Channel 2 - Atlanta (wsbtv.com) (https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/with-superstar-concerts-nba-playoffs-heres-how-get-around-downtown-atlanta-this-weekend/M42AQ754TVGAZPII7E6EFHZITM/?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0fcxqK9Ve3z6jjGn5-6Wzj5BYFq_2A9i-Akj1VFi0auiKwCQ8vBt09U1g)

Question:  I don't think I've ever heard this T. Swift lady sing (that I knew of).  Is she really a superstar?  I saw her in some commercial once and thought she was pretty pretty.  I guess she can sing.  I'm not up on "pop" music at all obviously.

We won't be downtown this weekend at all anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2023, 01:07:31 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/Xwgx9Jd.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 27, 2023, 01:21:04 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2023, 12:40:25 PM

With superstar concerts and NBA playoffs, here’s how to get around downtown Atlanta this weekend – WSB-TV Channel 2 - Atlanta (wsbtv.com) (https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/with-superstar-concerts-nba-playoffs-heres-how-get-around-downtown-atlanta-this-weekend/M42AQ754TVGAZPII7E6EFHZITM/?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0fcxqK9Ve3z6jjGn5-6Wzj5BYFq_2A9i-Akj1VFi0auiKwCQ8vBt09U1g)

Question:  I don't think I've ever heard this T. Swift lady sing (that I knew of).  Is she really a superstar?  I saw her in some commercial once and thought she was pretty pretty.  I guess she can sing.  I'm not up on "pop" music at all obviously.

We won't be downtown this weekend at all anyway.

Yes.
She's the Britney Spears-Madonna-Michael Jackson of today.
When tickets went on sale for her latest concert, it broke the internet.  Not just ticketmaster and those sites, but I believe it screwed up entire swaths of the internet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 27, 2023, 01:23:09 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2023, 12:40:25 PM

Question:  I don't think I've ever heard this T. Swift lady sing (that I knew of).  Is she really a superstar?  I saw her in some commercial once and thought she was pretty pretty.  I guess she can sing.  I'm not up on "pop" music at all obviously.

We won't be downtown this weekend at all anyway.

Superstar? Yes. She's big enough that her fans have their own nickname: "Swifties"

My wife has "Shake It Off" on her playlist because of my 10 yo daughter. If you want to start a dance party in the kitchen, just turn that on and my daughter will appear. 

I personally think she's a very talented songwriter but only a "meh" singer. Nothing really unique or interesting about her voice. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 27, 2023, 01:23:41 PM

We have tickets to go see Adele in Vegas in Sept. THAT is a show I'm looking forward to. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 27, 2023, 01:25:14 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on April 27, 2023, 11:17:29 AM

Elon and genius should never be mentioned in the same sentence.

This might be the new "wrongest wrong" post ever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 27, 2023, 01:57:22 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2023, 12:11:10 PM

I wish I was dumb enough to be a multi-billionaire.

He certainly does over-generalize things.

From my experience working on Federal projects, you can't get "high" on drugs. Random drugs tests are a requirement.

Huh?  Musk has plenty of videos of himself smoking out.  He hits the Austin bar scene pretty regularly with Joe Rogan.  They're not anywhere close to "un-high" during those excursions.

Anyway, I don't care one lick whether or not he's a stoner, I'm just speculating that one of the reasons he says so much dumb shit that's completely wrong, is because he's often high.  If he's doing it stone cold sober, that's probably even worse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2023, 02:00:16 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 27, 2023, 01:57:22 PM

Huh?  Musk has plenty of videos of himself smoking out.  He hits the Austin bar scene pretty regularly with Joe Rogan.  They're not anywhere close to "un-high" during those excursions.

Anyway, I don't care one lick whether or not he's a stoner, I'm just speculating that one of the reasons he says so much dumb shit that's completely wrong, is because he's often high.  If he's doing it stone cold sober, that's probably even worse.

Hey, I only pointed out the requirements to be a Federal contractor.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 27, 2023, 02:03:03 PM

Taylor Swift was the headliner at the Formula 1 US Grand Prix Saturday night concert at COTA in Austin a few years back.  I'd heard her music because my then-10-year-old daughter liked her, and I thought it was pretty good.  Since we get tickets for the race specifically, I always view the concerts as essentially "free" and so we went to the concert, because it was free.

I have to say, it's one of the best concerts I've ever attended live.

I guess her voice isn't "unique or special" but it's certainly very good, even live, and she's a heck of a songwriter.  She's also an excellent live performer, her connection wtih an 80,000 person audience, was remarkable.

Anyway, yeah, she's a superstar.  Madonna/Michael Jackson/Prince/Elvis/Beatles kind of big.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 27, 2023, 02:05:58 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 27, 2023, 12:00:16 PM

I dont think he loses much sleep worrying about what others think of him

Awesome.  I certainly don't lose any sleep thinking about all the dumb shit he says and does. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2023, 02:07:09 PM

Wholesale egg prices may hit $1 for first time since 2021 (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/27/wholesale-egg-prices-falling-dramatically.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2023, 02:07:39 PM

The Egg Lobby needs to get laying some lobbying and egg on Congress to do something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2023, 02:14:11 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2023, 02:07:09 PM

Wholesale egg prices may hit $1 for first time since 2021 (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/27/wholesale-egg-prices-falling-dramatically.html)

It's about time.

Lots of people I know simply gave up eating them due to the cost.

We still bought them, because we need them as ingredients (not alone on the plate, of course).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2023, 02:23:17 PM

We eat some maybe once a week (in grits), so it wasn't a thing for us.  It's a pretty good source of protein per $$, ask Rocky.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 27, 2023, 02:25:33 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2023, 02:14:11 PM

It's about time.

Lots of people I know simply gave up eating them due to the cost.

We still bought them, because we need them as ingredients (not alone on the plate, of course).

We eat a lot of eggs around here.  Average at least a dozen per week and probably more than that.  We eat them both as ingredients for baking and such, and alone, on the plate, because they are delicious.

Even so, we're fortunate enough in our earnings that the difference between $1/dozen and $5/dozen isn't a budget-breaker.  Going from maybe $5/month to $25/month doesn't affect us.

But eggs are (usually) a readily available and cheap source of protein and calories for a lot of lower income families, and I have no doubt that the prices hit them pretty hard.  Hopefully retailers will follow the costs down and some of those lower income families will get some much needed relief.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 27, 2023, 02:30:28 PM

I'm not a breakfast eater, so I don't mind eggs and bacon/ham/sausage for dinner once in a while

damn fine grease

pairs well with taters, cheese, and beer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 27, 2023, 02:33:06 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 27, 2023, 12:00:16 PM

I dont think he loses much sleep worrying about what others think of him

I think that might be his biggest problem, to be honest. That man weirdly really seem so care what some folks think of him. 

He honestly shouldn't. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2023, 02:33:24 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 27, 2023, 02:25:33 PM

We eat a lot of eggs around here.  Average at least a dozen per week and probably more than that.  We eat them both as ingredients for baking and such, and alone, on the plate, because they are delicious.

Even so, we're fortunate enough in our earnings that the difference between $1/dozen and $5/dozen isn't a budget-breaker.  Going from maybe $5/month to $25/month doesn't affect us.

But eggs are (usually) a readily available and cheap source of protein and calories for a lot of lower income families, and I have no doubt that the prices hit them pretty hard.  Hopefully retailers will follow the costs down and some of those lower income families will get some much needed relief.

Prices have definitely left a mark - for all food. I feel sorry for all of those people on fixed incomes. And we a whole lot of those in Florida.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 27, 2023, 02:37:06 PM

Fried eggs served over a plate of enchiladas is one of life's truly special treats.

(https://i.imgur.com/RiC0d6j.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2023, 02:39:14 PM

Same here, I've had $100 Kroger bills pretty often of late, not buying anything ridiculous, for two of us.  (Sometimes there is some wine in there.)

We've gone to more chicken and some all veg dinners at times.  My wife wanted to cut down on beef anyway.  We had lamb chops from Costco the other night and we get steelhead trout there, those make 3-4 meals.  She made lentils last night with leftover lamb.  Was good.  And dining out, ouch.

I get the Costco 3 lb coffee in cans, used to be $10, now $13, which is still a bargain, and it's good coffee.

I fear the Fed is going to throw us into recession soonish.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2023, 02:43:53 PM

The top 10 wealthiest cities in the world

• New York City, New York
• Tokyo, Japan
• The Bay Area, California
• London, United Kingdom
• Singapore, Singapore
• Los Angeles, California
• Hong Kong
• Beijing, China
• Shanghai, China
• Sydney, Australia

Top 10 wealthiest cities in the world (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/26/world-wealthiest-cities-henley-partners-report.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 27, 2023, 02:52:03 PM

another list

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2023, 02:53:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2023, 02:39:14 PM

Same here, I've had $100 Kroger bills pretty often of late, not buying anything ridiculous, for two of us.  (Sometimes there is some wine in there.)

We've gone to more chicken and some all veg dinners at times.  My wife wanted to cut down on beef anyway.  We had lamb chops from Costco the other night and we get steelhead trout there, those make 3-4 meals.  She made lentils last night with leftover lamb.  Was good.  And dining out, ouch.

I get the Costco 3 lb coffee in cans, used to be $10, now $13, which is still a bargain, and it's good coffee.

I fear the Fed is going to throw us into recession soonish.

Same, except Publix. We spend $100+ every week there, and we get our meats elsewhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2023, 02:55:12 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 27, 2023, 02:33:06 PM

I think that might be his biggest problem, to be honest. That man weirdly really seem so care what some folks think of him.

He honestly shouldn't.

He loves the back and forth youre misreading him

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 27, 2023, 02:58:51 PM

Milk ain't cheap either and my kids go through about a gallon per day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 27, 2023, 03:02:07 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 27, 2023, 02:55:12 PM

He loves the back and forth youre misreading him

I don't think so, I'm afraid. 

He might be good at business, and he's definitely good at collecting fanboys and getting them hyped up. 

But his level of public insecurity and need to make jokes a 14-year-old or person who thinks like a 14-year-old betray a real sad and weird streak. 

It's his life, and having more money than god means he gets to do whatever he wants. But what he wants it to apparently project that he acts like a middle schooler, and I'll point that out as I please. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2023, 03:03:22 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 27, 2023, 11:15:37 AM

Yeah but he so often says really stupid things.

as has every human being that has ever existed...

I honestly think 90% of Elon's public tweets/comments are straight up trolling. He strikes me as kinda immature.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2023, 03:12:02 PM

I have never said a stupid thing.

Oops.  First time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2023, 03:15:07 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on April 27, 2023, 11:17:29 AM

Elon and genius should never be mentioned in the same sentence.

like him or not, he's pretty f'n smart. listen to the people who have worked with him in the past- they all say he has a firm grasp and is deeply involved in everything he's doing- from the engineering/designing of rockets to the production/assembly of electric automobiles....he's certainly no dummy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2023, 03:15:30 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 27, 2023, 11:42:25 AM

I don't.  I think he's mostly just dumb.  And often, high, when he makes his sweeping generalizations that he believes are special nuggets of truth.

He's one of those people that thinks he's smarter than everyone else, because he has made a lot of money.

Anyway, he doesn't affect my life at all, so it's not something I think about much, other than gabbing on a message board forum.

I do like what SpaceX has been doing, so that's a point in his favor I suppose.

Um...he probably thinks he's smarter than everyone else....because....he is smarter than everyone else.

I mean the dude was only CEO and founder of three revolutionary companies from basically scratch- PayPal, Tesla, and SpaceX. The dude only virtually started online payments/banking revolution with the merger of his company X.com and Peter Thiel's company Confinity to create PayPal, created the first successful American automotive company in oh only about 100 years with Tesla- which by the way has brought upon the EV revolution, and oh yeah not to mention he's also only been building the first ever reusable rockets, creating the first ever true high speed satellite internet system with his StarLink, and just successfully test launched the largest and most advanced rocket ever created by human beings- a system which has as it's goal to help human beings reach Mars in our lifetimes.

I love the people who try to call him stupid and love to criticize him and bash him over the stupidest little things....it's like oh yeah cool...really well what the hell have you done with your life that's so impressive? Lol. That man is a borderline god and one of the most important and remarkable human beings ever to live. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2023, 03:16:43 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 27, 2023, 01:21:04 PM

Yes.
She's the Britney Spears-Madonna-Michael Jackson of today.
When tickets went on sale for her latest concert, it broke the internet.  Not just ticketmaster and those sites, but I believe it screwed up entire swaths of the internet.

maybe Britney or Madonna, sure.

Michael Jackson was/is just at an entirely different level. Thriller turned that dude into the biggest thing in the history of the entertainment industry. Only thing you can really compare that guy to is Elvis or The Beatles, and he may have just been even bigger than either. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2023, 03:19:25 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 27, 2023, 01:23:41 PM

We have tickets to go see Adele in Vegas in Sept. THAT is a show I'm looking forward to.

lucky. her voice is incredible. easily one of the greatest voices I think I have ever heard. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2023, 03:19:48 PM

Being a creative successful entrepreneur doesn't necessitate being smarter than everyone else.

I've met some truly smart people in my life, in one way or the other.  None of them were entreprenurial, nor famous.  They were exceptionally successful in their field. 

And I doubt many view him as "stupid" or below average in intelligence. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2023, 03:22:38 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2023, 03:19:48 PM

Being a creative successful entrepreneur doesn't necessitate being smarter than everyone else.

I've met some truly smart people in my life, in one way or the other.  None of them were entreprenurial, nor famous.  They were exceptionally successful in their field.

And I doubt many view him as "stupid" or below average in intelligence.

you don't start the amount of ground breaking, revolutionary, successful companies in the fields that he has- as he has done in his short life- he's only 51 - without being incredibly intelligent. Sorry. Just doesn't happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 27, 2023, 03:22:56 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2023, 03:19:48 PM

Being a creative successful entrepreneur doesn't necessitate being smarter than everyone else.

I've met some truly smart people in my life, in one way or the other.  None of them were entreprenurial, nor famous.  They were exceptionally successful in their field.

And I doubt many view him as "stupid" or below average in intelligence.

Nah I don't think he's stupid, he just says a lot of stupid shit.  Openly, publicly, and intentionally.

BAB is probably spot-on, in pointing it out as immaturity.

Or, he's just really high a lot of the time.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2023, 03:23:52 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 27, 2023, 03:22:56 PM

Nah I don't think he's stupid, he just says a lot of stupid shit.  Openly, publicly, and intentionally.

BAB is probably spot-on, in pointing it out as immaturity.

Or, he's just really high a lot of the time. 

I think he's extremely immature. 

Might be a product of insane wealth/fame/notoriety and living a god like existence for the last say 20 years of his adult life or so. That probably tends to bring out the worst of a person. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 27, 2023, 03:25:44 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 27, 2023, 03:23:52 PM

I think he's extremely immature.

Might be a product of insane wealth/fame/notoriety and living a god like existence for the last say 20 years of his adult life or so. That probably tends to bring out the worst of a person.

Could be.

Like I said, I don't think about it much at all, aside from rando internet message forum chatter.

I do have an appreciation for SpaceX though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2023, 03:32:07 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 27, 2023, 03:22:38 PM

you don't start the amount of ground breaking, revolutionary, successful companies in the fields that he has- as he has done in his short life- he's only 51 - without being incredibly intelligent. Sorry. Just doesn't happen.

Fine, but you posted this:

Um...he probably thinks he's smarter than everyone else....because....he is smarter than everyone else.


I completely disagree with that.  He may well have a high IQ, let's stipulate it's 150.  He not smarter than everyone else.  He's just very smart if that is his score (noting tests don't do well that far out).  He may well be "incredibly intelligent" without being anything like being smarter than everyone else.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2023, 03:50:28 PM

Senate GOP blocks Equal Rights Amendment | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3975654-senate-gop-blocks-equal-rights-amendment/)

How does one define "woman"?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2023, 03:57:38 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2023, 03:50:28 PM

Senate GOP blocks Equal Rights Amendment | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3975654-senate-gop-blocks-equal-rights-amendment/)

How does one define "woman"?

I had no idea that all it took to adopt an amendment was a vote from congress

I thought it took a national referendum

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2023, 04:05:32 PM

The details here are a bit more complex.  It takes Congress, the President, and 3/4 state legislatures.  Virginia passed the ERA to pass the last hurdle, but it was after the clock had run out.  This bill was to extend that clock.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2023, 04:09:52 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2023, 04:05:32 PM

The details here are a bit more complex.  It takes Congress, the President, and 3/4 state legislatures.  Virginia passed the ERA to pass the last hurdle, but it was after the clock had run out.  This bill was to extend that clock.

to do what 

The headline indicated that if it passed congress it would be adopted

if thats not the case then shame on them for misleading the public

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2023, 04:15:00 PM

The ERA passed Congress in 1972, having been first proposed in 1923. Constitutional amendments, under U.S. law, must be ratified by three-quarters of all state legislatures, meaning 38 states. 

In 2020, Virginia became the 38th state to ratify the ERA, but it did so after the 1982 deadline to ratify the amendment had passed.
The Senate resolution would have removed the deadline so that the ERA could become the 28th Amendment. Sen. Ben Cardin  (https://thehill.com/people/ben-cardin/)(D-Md.) and Murkowski were the resolution’s lead co-sponsors.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2023, 04:16:56 PM

The text of the Equal Rights Amendment (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Amendment) (ERA) states that “equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States (https://www.britannica.com/place/United-States) or by any State on account of sex” and further that “the Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation (https://www.britannica.com/topic/legislation-politics), the provisions of this article.” The ERA was first introduced to Congress (https://www.britannica.com/topic/Congress-of-the-United-States) in 1923, three years after women in the United States were granted the right to vote (https://www.britannica.com/topic/suffrage) (by the Nineteenth Amendment (https://www.britannica.com/topic/Nineteenth-Amendment)), and it was finally approved by the U.S. Senate (https://www.britannica.com/topic/Senate-United-States-government) 49 years later, in March 1972. It was then submitted to the state legislatures for ratification within seven years but, despite a deadline extension to June 1982, was not ratified by the requisite majority of 38 states until 2020. Following its ratification by the 38th state (Virginia), supporters of the ERA argued that if Congress were to adopt legislation rescinding (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rescinding) the 1982 deadline, the ERA would become the 28th Amendment to the Constitution.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 27, 2023, 04:41:37 PM

Personally I'm a 21st amendment fanboi.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2023, 04:43:39 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 27, 2023, 04:41:37 PM

Personally I'm a 21st amendment fanboi.

Ya don't say...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 27, 2023, 04:49:44 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 27, 2023, 04:41:37 PM

Personally I'm a 21st amendment fanboi.

I’m big on 4 through 8

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 27, 2023, 05:04:52 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 27, 2023, 04:49:44 PM

I’m big on 4 through 8

You would be.


I'm down with the 2nd and the 10th.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 27, 2023, 05:07:50 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 27, 2023, 05:04:52 PM

You would be.


I'm down with the 2nd and the 10th.

:)

I’m honestly pretty good with the second. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 27, 2023, 05:56:07 PM

Enough of the 21st, and ya just stop caring about the rest of it :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 27, 2023, 07:17:39 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 27, 2023, 03:57:38 PM

I had no idea that all it took to adopt an amendment was a vote from congress

I thought it took a national referendum

I would pay money to get an essay you author about how the government works.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2023, 10:10:27 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 27, 2023, 07:17:39 PM

I would pay money to get an essay you author about how the government works.

why do you say such stupid comments

your not funny and I feel sorry for you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2023, 10:07:27 AM

The Best Compact SUVs and Crossovers For 2023: Small, But With Utility (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/features/best-compact-suvs-crossovers?slide=29)

• 2023 Jeep Cherokee worst in their view
• 2023 GMC Terrain
• 2023 Volkswagen Tiguan
• 2023 Chevrolet Equinox
• 2023 Mitsubishi Outlander
• 2023 Hyundai Tucson
• 2023 Ford Escape
• 2023 Toyota RAV4
• 2023 Kia Sportage
• 2023 Mazda CX-5
• 2023 Mazda CX-50
• 2023 Subaru Forester
• 2023 Honda CR-V
• 2023 Nissan Rogue best in their view

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 28, 2023, 10:09:57 AM

Hey look, it's a list!

I don't think I've seen every one of those, but the ones I have, are all pretty ugly.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2023, 10:57:57 AM

2023 Civic Type R vs. 2023 GR Corolla Circuit vs. 2022 Golf R (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a43158461/2023-honda-civic-type-r-2023-toyota-gr-corolla-circuit-2022-volkswagen-golf-r-compared/?fbclid=IwAR35HwhEZ96AbQNN1K_gvbywG5k04Dn-wHncqpNpDwwsoRUUe6nY5yUPnkA)

I "looked" at an R when we bought the GTI.  The mpg thing was a factor, and I thought the R was "too much" for me.  The GTI is "just right".  This new Corolla sounds like a hoot with 3 cyinders though.  Might be fun to rent one.

I think Honda makes fine vehicles overall.  I once owned a CRV with a 5 speed.  I gave it to one of my offspring who had a friend "borrow" it and get it stuck deeply in the mud and ruined the transmission.  The Accord is really a nicely done if boring car.

Honda has kind of a neat ad now I've noticed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 28, 2023, 11:36:24 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 27, 2023, 04:16:56 PM

Following its ratification by the 38th state (Virginia), supporters of the ERA argued that if Congress were to adopt legislation rescinding (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rescinding) the 1982 deadline, the ERA would become the 28th Amendment to the Constitution.

This is a shaky Constitutional argument.

To back up, the processes of amending the Constitution are laid out in Article V which states:
"The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate."

Note that this Article does not contemplate ratification deadlines at all.

Thus, IMHO, the strongest argument in favor of the ERA is that deadlines are simply invalid because the Constitution does not provide for them. In that case, no Congressional action is necessary at all because the deadline is ineffective and consequently the ERA which HAS been ratified by 38 states which meets the Constitutional requirement quoted above that it shall be valid when ratified by three fourths of state Legislatures (50*.75=37.5). There are, however, several problems with this argument:

First, the ERA, as proposed by Congress contained a ratification deadline of March 22, 1979. Congress subsequently voted to extend that deadline to June 30, 1982. The extension, however, was passed by simple majorities in both Houses whereas the proposal of an Amendment requires a two thirds majority. This legal question was rendered moot by the fact that no states ratified the amendment between March 22, 1979 and June 30, 1982.

Second, five states (ID, TN, NE, KY, SD) have voted to recind their ratifications. These recissions are also Constitutionally questionable because Article V also does not mention Recission.

Next, a second argument against the validity of the ratification deadline is that apparently it was included in the preamble to the ERA, not in the ERA itself. Thus, the argument is that the States were voting only on the ERA and that the preamble lacks the force of law.

So I would rank the arguments in favor (strongest to weakest) as follows:

• Ratification deadlines are null and void because they are not contemplated by Article V of the Constitution.
• This particular ratification deadline is null and void because it was not included within the text of the Amendment itself.
• Congress can extend the deadline.

Conversely, I would rank the arguments against (strongest to weakest) as follows:

• The original ratification deadline was valid has expired, and cannot be extended.
• Recissions of Ratification are valid and thus the Amendment has never been ratified by three fourths of the States. It got to 35, then five recinded, then three more ratified (35-5+3=33).

There is some case law that proponents argue creates a precedent against Recision.


Above I've tried to be even-handed. Now my opinion:
First, I think that Congress' power to impose a Ratification deadline is implied by the fact that the Constitution grants Congress the power to propose Amendments.

Second, IMHO, the argument that the deadline can be extended at all, let alone by a simple majority, is ludicrous. If it takes a two thirds majority to propose an Amendment then it should take a two thirds majority to alter a proposed amendment if alteration is even permitted.

Third, if the Ratification deadline was valid then all Ratifications were passed subject to the deadline and it cannot be altered.

Finally, Recission must be permissible. Really, the argument for this position is best made br proponents of the ERA. One such proponent argued that ratification us a one-way ratchet. Ok, then ask yourself if you think the founders intended to create such a ridiculous system? Of course not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 28, 2023, 11:42:57 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 28, 2023, 10:57:57 AM

2023 Civic Type R vs. 2023 GR Corolla Circuit vs. 2022 Golf R (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a43158461/2023-honda-civic-type-r-2023-toyota-gr-corolla-circuit-2022-volkswagen-golf-r-compared/?fbclid=IwAR35HwhEZ96AbQNN1K_gvbywG5k04Dn-wHncqpNpDwwsoRUUe6nY5yUPnkA)

I "looked" at an R when we bought the GTI.  The mpg thing was a factor, and I thought the R was "too much" for me.  The GTI is "just right".  This new Corolla sounds like a hoot with 3 cyinders though.  Might be fun to rent one.

I think Honda makes fine vehicles overall.  I once owned a CRV with a 5 speed.  I gave it to one of my offspring who had a friend "borrow" it and get it stuck deeply in the mud and ruined the transmission.  The Accord is really a nicely done if boring car.

Honda has kind of a neat ad now I've noticed.

Absolute best car I've ever owned was my wife's 1992 Honda Accord. Totally bullet-proof.

Absolute worst car I've ever owned was my wife's 2003 Toyota Camry Solara.  Total lemon, massive electrical problems, left her stranded more times than I can count.  I'd never, ever buy Toyota again.  Their dealers were real POSs too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 28, 2023, 11:57:14 AM

Ugh.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/regulators-to-publish-postmortems-on-silicon-valley-bank-signature-failures-37abe07?st=9tqnsfwdlxi582v&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 28, 2023, 12:03:06 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on April 28, 2023, 11:36:24 AM

This is a shaky Constitutional argument.

To back up, the processes of amending the Constitution are laid out in Article V which states:
"The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate."

Note that this Article does not contemplate ratification deadlines at all.

Thus, IMHO, the strongest argument in favor of the ERA is that deadlines are simply invalid because the Constitution does not provide for them. In that case, no Congressional action is necessary at all because the deadline is ineffective and consequently the ERA which HAS been ratified by 38 states which meets the Constitutional requirement quoted above that it shall be valid when ratified by three fourths of state Legislatures (50*.75=37.5). There are, however, several problems with this argument:

First, the ERA, as proposed by Congress contained a ratification deadline of March 22, 1979. Congress subsequently voted to extend that deadline to June 30, 1982. The extension, however, was passed by simple majorities in both Houses whereas the proposal of an Amendment requires a two thirds majority. This legal question was rendered moot by the fact that no states ratified the amendment between March 22, 1979 and June 30, 1982.

Second, five states (ID, TN, NE, KY, SD) have voted to recind their ratifications. These recissions are also Constitutionally questionable because Article V also does not mention Recission.

Next, a second argument against the validity of the ratification deadline is that apparently it was included in the preamble to the ERA, not in the ERA itself. Thus, the argument is that the States were voting only on the ERA and that the preamble lacks the force of law.

So I would rank the arguments in favor (strongest to weakest) as follows:

• Ratification deadlines are null and void because they are not contemplated by Article V of the Constitution.
• This particular ratification deadline is null and void because it was not included within the text of the Amendment itself.
• Congress can extend the deadline.

Conversely, I would rank the arguments against (strongest to weakest) as follows:

• The original ratification deadline was valid has expired, and cannot be extended.
• Recissions of Ratification are valid and thus the Amendment has never been ratified by three fourths of the States. It got to 35, then five recinded, then three more ratified (35-5+3=33).

There is some case law that proponents argue creates a precedent against Recision.


Above I've tried to be even-handed. Now my opinion:
First, I think that Congress' power to impose a Ratification deadline is implied by the fact that the Constitution grants Congress the power to propose Amendments.

Second, IMHO, the argument that the deadline can be extended at all, let alone by a simple majority, is ludicrous. If it takes a two thirds majority to propose an Amendment then it should take a two thirds majority to alter a proposed amendment if alteration is even permitted.

Third, if the Ratification deadline was valid then all Ratifications were passed subject to the deadline and it cannot be altered.

Finally, Recission must be permissible. Really, the argument for this position is best made br proponents of the ERA. One such proponent argued that ratification us a one-way ratchet. Ok, then ask yourself if you think the founders intended to create such a ridiculous system? Of course not.

Nice work MB1

your arguments seem very logical

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 28, 2023, 12:49:00 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 28, 2023, 11:57:14 AM

Ugh.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/regulators-to-publish-postmortems-on-silicon-valley-bank-signature-failures-37abe07?st=9tqnsfwdlxi582v&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

I find it very “interesting “ to even partially blame their failure on a political party or person. In this case- Trump.

if you read the rest of the article it actually lays out exactly why this bank failed.  It is 100% the fault of very poor and risky bank management, failure to properly address identified risks, and major failure of the bank regulators to do their job when they did find substantial risks.

this bank had 31 open findings or material witnesses identified by the regulators.  31!

Banks are audited in great detail every single year and any material findings are escalated to executive management and Board of Directors. If not fixed within a certain amount of time typically the board will remove the people responsible for not fixing it, or the regulators will step in with a second and final warning. 

I am very familiar with this process after being in it for 37 years.  The people running this bank we’re playing fast and loose with the shareholders best interests and the regulators were letting them do it.  In fact they were heavily rewarded for doing it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 28, 2023, 12:50:07 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on April 28, 2023, 11:36:24 AM

This is a shaky Constitutional argument.

To back up, the processes of amending the Constitution are laid out in Article V which states:
"The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate."

Note that this Article does not contemplate ratification deadlines at all.

Thus, IMHO, the strongest argument in favor of the ERA is that deadlines are simply invalid because the Constitution does not provide for them. In that case, no Congressional action is necessary at all because the deadline is ineffective and consequently the ERA which HAS been ratified by 38 states which meets the Constitutional requirement quoted above that it shall be valid when ratified by three fourths of state Legislatures (50*.75=37.5). There are, however, several problems with this argument:

First, the ERA, as proposed by Congress contained a ratification deadline of March 22, 1979. Congress subsequently voted to extend that deadline to June 30, 1982. The extension, however, was passed by simple majorities in both Houses whereas the proposal of an Amendment requires a two thirds majority. This legal question was rendered moot by the fact that no states ratified the amendment between March 22, 1979 and June 30, 1982.

Second, five states (ID, TN, NE, KY, SD) have voted to recind their ratifications. These recissions are also Constitutionally questionable because Article V also does not mention Recission.

Next, a second argument against the validity of the ratification deadline is that apparently it was included in the preamble to the ERA, not in the ERA itself. Thus, the argument is that the States were voting only on the ERA and that the preamble lacks the force of law.

So I would rank the arguments in favor (strongest to weakest) as follows:

• Ratification deadlines are null and void because they are not contemplated by Article V of the Constitution.
• This particular ratification deadline is null and void because it was not included within the text of the Amendment itself.
• Congress can extend the deadline.

Conversely, I would rank the arguments against (strongest to weakest) as follows:

• The original ratification deadline was valid has expired, and cannot be extended.
• Recissions of Ratification are valid and thus the Amendment has never been ratified by three fourths of the States. It got to 35, then five recinded, then three more ratified (35-5+3=33).

There is some case law that proponents argue creates a precedent against Recision.


Above I've tried to be even-handed. Now my opinion:
First, I think that Congress' power to impose a Ratification deadline is implied by the fact that the Constitution grants Congress the power to propose Amendments.

Second, IMHO, the argument that the deadline can be extended at all, let alone by a simple majority, is ludicrous. If it takes a two thirds majority to propose an Amendment then it should take a two thirds majority to alter a proposed amendment if alteration is even permitted.

Third, if the Ratification deadline was valid then all Ratifications were passed subject to the deadline and it cannot be altered.

Finally, Recission must be permissible. Really, the argument for this position is best made br proponents of the ERA. One such proponent argued that ratification us a one-way ratchet. Ok, then ask yourself if you think the founders intended to create such a ridiculous system? Of course not.

I'd say I'm in agreement here. I don't necessarily see the argument that a deadline can be binding, ESPECIALLY if it wasn't in the text of the amendment itself. And if it wasn't in the amendment itself, an extension can be valid. 

I see the rescission thing as more of an issue. I think the Constitution didn't cover that because once 3/4 of states ratify, that means it is ratified. At that point the only way to reverse the Amendment would be to write another that reverses it (as with the 18th and 21st). You can't have a state after it's ratified have the power to revers a Constitutional Amendment already in force by voting to rescind. HOWEVER, prior to ratification of the Amendment, I can't imagine any situation where a state would not be able to rescind their ratification. I don't see how the founders would have addressed that. 

I'm going to take a quick look at my handy copy of The Federalist Papers and see if there's anything in there about it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 28, 2023, 01:02:04 PM

Nothing relevant I can see in Federalist #43 nor #85, the only two that I can see dealing with the amendment process. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 28, 2023, 01:36:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 28, 2023, 10:07:27 AM

The Best Compact SUVs and Crossovers For 2023: Small, But With Utility (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/features/best-compact-suvs-crossovers?slide=29)

• 2023 Jeep Cherokee worst in their view
• 2023 GMC Terrain
• 2023 Volkswagen Tiguan
• 2023 Chevrolet Equinox
• 2023 Mitsubishi Outlander
• 2023 Hyundai Tucson
• 2023 Ford Escape
• 2023 Toyota RAV4
• 2023 Kia Sportage
• 2023 Mazda CX-5
• 2023 Mazda CX-50
• 2023 Subaru Forester
• 2023 Honda CR-V
• 2023 Nissan Rogue best in their view

Wow, so it took Fiat under 20 years to have Jeep drop from best to worst.  Cool.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2023, 01:44:03 PM

If they passed this ERA fix it surely would be challenged in court.  I don't see a problem with the ERA as written beyond the argument it's unnecessary.  And maybe it is needed, I dunno exactly why.  I don't think it would "fix" anything I can imagine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 28, 2023, 02:10:13 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 28, 2023, 01:36:58 PM

Wow, so it took Fiat under 20 years to have Jeep drop from best to worst.  Cool.

But have Jeep Cherokees ever been any good?  The Cherokee XJ owners I know all refer to their vehicles as "shitbox."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2023, 02:14:15 PM

They have a following, kind of like Suburu does, which means they are appealing to some, not that they've ever been very competitive.  I'd guess the car mahs 20 years ago would have posted similar rankings.

The thing about these reviews, to me, is they can highlight some areas of concern, which is they don't bother you means you can ignore them, or pay attention to them, etc.  They don't mean you should buy only their top pick.

I think the Nissan may have a CVT which I would NOT buy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 28, 2023, 02:22:47 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 28, 2023, 02:10:13 PM

But have Jeep Cherokees ever been any good?  The Cherokee XJ owners I know all refer to their vehicles as "shitbox."

Sadly Jeep has not really historically been known for quality. The Wrangler is something you buy despite its reliability reputation, not because of it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 28, 2023, 02:26:04 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 28, 2023, 02:22:47 PM

Sadly Jeep has not really historically been known for quality. The Wrangler is something you buy despite its reliability reputation, not because of it.

Absolutely.  When we bought my wife's Wrangler, I was under no illusion that it was going to be particularly reliable.  Although I will say that in our 3 years of owning it, we've had zero issues.  Knock on wood.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2023, 02:30:11 PM

These days, even an "unreliable" car is probably on par with any Toyota 30 years ago, probably better.  You can still stumble across a lemon of course, but in the main, reliability is not a thing any more IMHO.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 28, 2023, 02:31:32 PM

Interesting regarding rescission (https://nmcdn.io/e186d21f8c7946a19faed23c3da2f0da/bec921723f6f43b1965ed273674fa252/files/Kallen--amp--Maloney_Original.pdf)...

Seems SCOTUS has never addressed the issue. States tried to rescind ratification of the 14th and 15th amendments before they took effect. For the 14th, two states attempted to rescind. The Secretary of State asked Congress who said they didn't recognize rescission, so he certified the amendment. For the 15th, he simply certified it over the objective of one state who attempted to rescind. 

Later Tennessee attempted to rescind AFTER the 19th took effect, and it was [rightly] ignored as the amendment was already certified. 

If the ERA is pushed through on this basis, I would expect that at least one of the states in question will sue, and it could create a VERY interesting SCOTUS case. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 28, 2023, 06:37:45 PM

speaking of all that Tucker Carlson talk, the short video clip he released on his Twitter where he addressed his Fox dismissal and his future received nearly 60 million views in 24 hrs. 

Good luck trying to replace someone with that kind of following/star power Murdoch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 28, 2023, 06:43:43 PM

Im sure right now they are trying to come up with a way of avoiding him going out and getting his own show or at least delay it as long as possible

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 28, 2023, 07:32:47 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 28, 2023, 06:43:43 PM

Im sure right now they are trying to come up with a way of avoiding him going out and getting his own show or at least delay it as long as possible

correct. he actually technically is not fired. he's still a Fox employee and is bound by contract from working for anyone else. he'll have to negotiate an exit which allows him to go work for someone else or start his own company.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 28, 2023, 07:51:44 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 28, 2023, 06:37:45 PM

speaking of all that Tucker Carlson talk, the short video clip he released on his Twitter where he addressed his Fox dismissal and his future received nearly 60 million views in 24 hrs.

Good luck trying to replace someone with that kind of following/star power Murdoch.

They did it with Bill O'Reilly.  They'll do it again

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 28, 2023, 08:39:54 PM

Star power?  
All they need is someone willing to go even further right.  Duh.  Effortlessly replace him tomorrow.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 28, 2023, 10:10:16 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 28, 2023, 08:39:54 PM

Star power? 
All they need is someone willing to go even further right.  Duh.  Effortlessly replace him tomorrow. 

further right? Tucker Carlson was/is popular because he often times espoused views far left of the "far right" (Mitch McConnell, Mitt Romney, pick any right/far right establishment republican variety type you like). 

He was literally the only anti-war voice on all of US cable tv news. That's hardly "far right". 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 28, 2023, 10:11:31 PM

Quote from: ELA on April 28, 2023, 07:51:44 PM

They did it with Bill O'Reilly.  They'll do it again

nah. different day and age from O'Reilly's heyday, landscape has changed drastically. That industry is dying. Streaming/YouTube independent news shows/podcasts are crushing the cable tv networks ratings. Not to mention Carlson was/is had a far bigger following- especially in the key demo (25-44) than that loud dumb smelly geriatric perverted old f&ck O'Reilly could ever dream of having- even in his heyday when it was much easier to have audience capture.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 28, 2023, 11:16:27 PM

They'll find someone even more viral worthy.  Or someone will change their persona to fit what their viewers want, just like Tucker did

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 29, 2023, 05:20:46 AM

Quote from: ELA on April 28, 2023, 11:16:27 PM

Or someone will change their persona to fit what their viewers want, just like Tucker did

As Carlson did in the first place.  These folks are opportunists.

They need folks who can "read" their audience, much like a fake preacher, and give them what they want.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 29, 2023, 08:57:07 AM

or a real preacher

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 29, 2023, 09:12:26 AM

Interesting take. I've always looked at the number of people leaving. This is more about the money leaving. It's an editorial, but still cites good data and does not appear to manipulate it.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/illinois-j-b-pritzker-taxes-states-irs-ec3da356?st=la5rd8smy3wxdtk&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 29, 2023, 10:45:51 AM

Da Braves are 11-2 on the road ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 29, 2023, 04:03:11 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 29, 2023, 09:12:26 AM

Interesting take. I've always looked at the number of people leaving. This is more about the money leaving. It's an editorial, but still cites good data and does not appear to manipulate it.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/illinois-j-b-pritzker-taxes-states-irs-ec3da356?st=la5rd8smy3wxdtk&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Man, hat tip to whoever did that data. I went to the source and while I think I could pull it together, it's quite unwieldy. 

I'd be interested in some of the historic trends, i.e. how different is it from a 3-year tranche in the early 2000s, early 90s, etc. But overall, it seems like mostly basic economics and preferences. People are moving from more expensive places to less expensive ones, usually from colder to warmer. Big chunks of that aren't so shocking.

Is some narrative stuff driving parts of it? Probably. But brass tacks econ is always key. And if demand wants to really drop in Ca., I'd be glad. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 30, 2023, 06:25:59 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/laQcHmK.png)

Parking rate for that concert downtown...  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 30, 2023, 06:50:26 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 30, 2023, 06:25:59 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/laQcHmK.png)

Parking rate for that concert downtown... 

The market in action.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 30, 2023, 07:04:53 AM

Yeah, I saw some note en passant about a couple spending $500 EACH on the Swift concert via Stubhub.  I don't really get it, not that it matters to anyone.

I gather she's a good singer.  Or maybe she wears revealing outfits and is decent looking ...

Or both.

Granted I'm spending about $100 per concert per on season tickets to our concerts.  I did cut back a bit on that this past year, so we're now in Row One of the third level balcony.  My wife didn't like them initially but now says they are good, I think they are about $65 per.  She brings binos.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 30, 2023, 08:44:50 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 29, 2023, 04:03:11 PM

Man, hat tip to whoever did that data. I went to the source and while I think I could pull it together, it's quite unwieldy.

I'd be interested in some of the historic trends, i.e. how different is it from a 3-year tranche in the early 2000s, early 90s, etc. But overall, it seems like mostly basic economics and preferences. People are moving from more expensive places to less expensive ones, usually from colder to warmer. Big chunks of that aren't so shocking.

Is some narrative stuff driving parts of it? Probably. But brass tacks econ is always key. And if demand wants to really drop in Ca., I'd be glad.

I was at an economic forum back in Illinois a few years ago.

In that state, the top 10 percent of earners pay 80 percent of the taxes.

The 10 percent is leaving, which was the gist of the article.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 30, 2023, 10:09:04 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 30, 2023, 08:44:50 AM

I was at an economic forum back in Illinois a few years ago.

In that state, the top 10 percent of earners pay 80 percent of the taxes.

The 10 percent is leaving, which was the gist of the article.

That leads me to be interested in a whole other set of numbers. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 30, 2023, 10:18:36 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 30, 2023, 10:09:04 AM

That leads me to be interested in a whole other set of numbers.

Like these?

(https://i.imgur.com/7lqfI1m.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 30, 2023, 10:21:30 AM

The IRS data shows a net 105,000 people left Illinois in 2021, taking with them some $10.9 billion in AGI. That’s up from $8.5 billion in 2020 and $6 billion in 2019. New York’s income loss increased to $24.5 billion in 2021 from $19.5 billion in 2020 and $9 billion in 2019. California lost $29.1 billion in 2021, more than triple what it did in 2019.

By contrast, the lowest tax states added some $100 billion of income during the pandemic. Zero-income-tax Florida gained $39.2 billion—up from $23.7 billion in 2020 and $17.7 billion in 2019. About $9.8 billion of the total arrived from New York, $3.9 billion from Illinois, $3.7 billion from New Jersey and $3.5 billion from California.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 30, 2023, 11:39:47 AM

The uber wealthy can manage by avoiding taxable income.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 30, 2023, 12:08:14 PM

Of course, they can. But the people making $200K/year (for example) are moving out. In IL, that's $10K. 

What replaces their state tax contribution? That's the money I'm talking about. 

That will not be replaced, so what do states like IL, CA and NY do about it? 

They need income, and it's not going to be replaced by those who are staying. 

The outbound revenue loss charts I posted above clearly show this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 30, 2023, 12:54:27 PM

California can manage to the extent their tech managers get options and bonuses, taxable income, better than Illinois.  I agree with you about IL, and I recall they have a massive pension deficit on top of this.  I'd guess inside a decade the Feds will bail them out.

The Uber Wealthy there and in NYC etc. just avoid having taxable income.  I know some states are trying to tax wealth.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 30, 2023, 12:58:27 PM

Feds bail them out? 

$140 Billion?

People in places like Texas and Florida won't like their money going to Illinois. 

Illinois F'd itself. No reason for well-run states to fund their problems.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 30, 2023, 12:59:36 PM

Sure, folks won't like it, but $140 billion is a drop in the bucket for the Feds, and the Bleeding Hearts will have their way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 30, 2023, 01:02:07 PM

That $140 Billion is just the state. Chicago is at $36 Billion - $45K per taxpayer (if there are any left). And then you have all the counties and municipalities and townships and mosquito districts and water districts and on and on.

Good luck with that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2023, 01:09:15 PM

seems to me as if bailouts are more likely since the late 70s and 80s

probably many examples 100 years ago, but they seem to be getting much more popular since they've decided a balanced budget isn't something to worry about when they can simply print more money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 30, 2023, 01:13:19 PM

Yeah, the states with one exception have to appear to balance their budgets.  This quantitative easing is so incredible to me it left me laughing when I first read about it.  And we seem to be in a permanent state of easing, maybe drifting a bit tighter at times like now, but still the Fed's balance sheet is astonishing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 30, 2023, 01:16:34 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 30, 2023, 10:18:36 AM

Like these?

(https://i.imgur.com/7lqfI1m.png)

No. I saw that, and tried to pull the spreadsheets, but they’re kinda messy.

I’d be curious about the tax share/income share/wealth share. Not for any other point than it paints a picture.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 30, 2023, 01:21:21 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 30, 2023, 12:08:14 PM

Of course, they can. But the people making $200K/year (for example) are moving out. In IL, that's $10K.

What replaces their state tax contribution? That's the money I'm talking about.

That will not be replaced, so what do states like IL, CA and NY do about it?

They need income, and it's not going to be replaced by those who are staying.

The outbound revenue loss charts I posted above clearly show this.

A. NY and especially CA, likely gain a slight edge with income transfers in from people coming from abroad.
B. IL might be boned.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 30, 2023, 01:40:19 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 30, 2023, 01:09:15 PM

seems to me as if bailouts are more likely since the late 70s and 80s

probably many examples 100 years ago, but they seem to be getting much more popular since they've decided a balanced budget isn't something to worry about when they can simply print more money

That was one solid plus the Rs had back in the day.  It's pretty freaking simple - just keep it balanced each year and it can't snowball into some giant number that becomes cartoony and impossible to ever pay back.
But then the Rs ceased caring about it, too.
*I say that with the caveat that Rs from 1988-2008 put us further into debt than Ds did, by far.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 30, 2023, 01:58:18 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 30, 2023, 01:40:19 PM

That was one solid plus the Rs had back in the day.  It's pretty freaking simple - just keep it balanced each year and it can't snowball into some giant number that becomes cartoony and impossible to ever pay back.
But then the Rs ceased caring about it, too.
*I say that with the caveat that Rs from 1988-2008 put us further into debt than Ds did, by far. 

There's blame all across the board.

Illinois had R governors for years - 1977 through 2001. From 1994 on they cooked the books to make it look better. Even the SEC said as much. The Dot.com crash killed the fund further. The debt was then up to $45 Billion, in 2001. That opened my eyes to the problem.

Then in 2004 under Blago, they started with the pension holidays - using pension payments to fund other programs.

And here we are. Total pension liabilities in Illinois across all governments is close to $300 Billion.

I dimmed the lights when I left in 2020. Eventually they will go dark.

R or D - none of them care.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 30, 2023, 01:59:09 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 30, 2023, 01:21:21 PM

A. NY and especially CA, likely gain a slight edge with income transfers in from people coming from abroad.
B. IL might be boned.

The numbers don't look good, even with those potential gains.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2023, 09:29:54 AM

Population denity(https://i.imgur.com/j4gJMAC.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 02, 2023, 11:20:44 AM

Florida is going to sink into the water if we get more people here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 02, 2023, 11:30:36 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 02, 2023, 11:20:44 AM

Florida is going to sink into the water if we get more people here.

or the whole country could flip over

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 02, 2023, 12:35:13 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 02, 2023, 11:20:44 AM

Florida is going to sink into the water if we get more people here.

You're not Guam. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5dkqUy7mUk

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2023, 01:43:53 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/wFLeyxv.png)

Nice day, quite windy, my wife wondered if the crane operators notice it.  The foregound is to be a 60 story condo building.  They finished demo and are going at the foundation for another crane or three.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 02, 2023, 01:59:31 PM

I found this interesting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvOMEKP9pzA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 02, 2023, 02:06:30 PM

crane operators notice it
as do golfers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2023, 02:06:55 PM

When I golfed, I blamed the wind for my errant shots ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 02, 2023, 02:07:21 PM

I did yesterday

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2023, 02:27:42 PM

Our favorite Italian restaurant was demolished a couple months back to make way for "progress".  The lady owner got a nice check I presume and put it into rehabbing a house built in 1930 still present amidst some 40 story apt buildings.  We'd been keeping an eye on it and had toured it during construction.  Today, it was OPEN!!!  Yay, we were both delighted, and they didn't have their alcohol permit for a glass of wine was free (I left a nice tip).

We sat at the bar and chatted a good bit with the owner, a very nice Asian lady.  Anyway, if you're ever down here, I think it's worth a trip, it's on West Peachtree in midtown.  It's kinda funny how a small thing can cheer a person up.

(https://i.imgur.com/kLHD5qi.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2023, 02:43:25 PM

A Little Girl Gives A Coin To A Street Musician And Gets The Best Surprise In Return. - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceX5jJ5fggs&list=RDoqH_GYr3e_c&index=4)

Some joy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 02, 2023, 02:48:54 PM

Italian restaurant, the owner, a very nice Asian lady??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 02, 2023, 02:50:57 PM

(https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/343107262_801723904226271_4796166425614950855_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=xVic1tdyF7cAX-xqm9c&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&oh=00_AfDJkF1GPuVn45PmyuRWgg608pA3HOUzogs7UVlT31Gg2Q&oe=64563778)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 02, 2023, 04:06:30 PM

Does all the walking I did in a foreign country counteract eating so richly and knocking back four-plus meals on my travel day back?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2023, 04:08:15 PM

Live updates: Russia's war in Ukraine (cnn.com) (https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-05-02-23/index.html)

Ukraine’s counteroffensive appears imminent (https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/01/europe/ukraine-russia-counteroffensive-analysis-intl-hnk/index.html).
The country's front lines are abuzz with vehicle movement and artillery strikes, with regular explosions hitting vital Russian targets in occupied areas. President Volodymyr Zelensky has assured a counteroffensive “will happen (https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-04-30-23/h_4aa8e95b898307bf6c3e540e23b87a7f)," while demurring on any exact start date.
It may have already started; it may be weeks away. We don’t know – but Ukrainians, whom CNN spoke to in Kyiv, are pinning their hopes on this much-anticipated counteroffensive.
Tetiana Kolle-Kolesnikova, 35, left her town Volnovakha in the Donetsk region in the first days of Russia's full-scale invasion. Now she lives and works in Kyiv as a manicurist. 
“I expect that our army will win in any case and take back all the occupied territories. And our family will finally be able to return home and see their homeland. We miss home very much," she told CNN.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2023, 04:09:01 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 02, 2023, 02:48:54 PM

Italian restaurant, the owner, a very nice Asian lady??

Indeed, it's a bit odd.  She sounds like a native, so I gather she's been here all her life.  Her chef is Italian.  The food is good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 02, 2023, 04:09:07 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 02, 2023, 04:06:30 PM

Does all the walking I did in a foreign country counteract eating so richly and knocking back four-plus meals on my travel day back.

We ate big on one last trip to Italy. Lost 12 pounds on that trip. 160+ miles on foot helped. Didn't help the feet at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 02, 2023, 04:09:52 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 02, 2023, 04:09:01 PM

Indeed, it's a bit odd.  She sounds like a native, so I gather she's been here all her life.  Her chef is Italian.  The food is good.

Name and address would be good. Midtown is a big place.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2023, 04:19:31 PM

Menu — Pasta da Pulcinella (https://pastadapulcinella.com/menu)

1100 West Peachtree St. NW, in the heart of Midtown Atlanta


Since 1994, Pasta Da Pulcinella has been a place of the reknown Zagat Survey, Frommer’s Guide to Atlanta, and a host to nation-wide clientele. In 2000, the restaurant moved off Peachtree street in favor of a more intimate atmosphere. Pasta Da Pulcinella has undergone changes but has maintained the classic appeal that made it famous. Table linens, oil paintings of Tuscany, classic melodies, and the scent of fresh pasta fill the air.

Chef Bibbiano has been the heart of Pasta Da Pulcinella for over fifteen years. He diligently maintains the restaurant’s original menu, all the while creating additional dishes each week with the freshest ingredients. Unassuming and quick with a smile, Chef Bibbiano keeps his small kitchen full of laughter and the joy he gets from his work.

The bar is in that bayfront window, it's a nice seat when outside it too windy/chilly, as today.  This house was pretty decrepit before they redid it, usually such things get demolished.

(https://i.imgur.com/y9i7qtZ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2023, 04:32:52 PM

COLLEGE FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS RELEASED:

The new schedule will be as follows:
2024 Season

(https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/tc6/1/16/1f6a9.png)First Round (On-Campus)
Friday, December 20, 2024: One Game (evening)
Saturday, December 21, 2024: Three Games (early afternoon, late afternoon and evening)

(https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/tc6/1/16/1f6a9.png)Quarterfinals
Tuesday, December 31, 2024: Vrbo Fiesta Bowl (evening)
Wednesday, January 1, 2025: Chick-fil-A Peach Bowl (early afternoon), Rose Bowl Game (late afternoon) and Allstate Sugar Bowl (evening)

(https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/tc6/1/16/1f6a9.png)Semifinals
Thursday, January 9, 2025: Capital One Orange Bowl (evening)
Friday, January 10, 2025: Goodyear Cotton Bowl Classic (evening)

(https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/tc6/1/16/1f6a9.png)CFP National Championship
Monday, January 20, 2025: Mercedes-Benz Stadium, Atlanta, Georgia

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 02, 2023, 04:49:04 PM

just gonna leave this here....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KccGcpXfWJw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 02, 2023, 05:00:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 02, 2023, 04:08:15 PM

Live updates: Russia's war in Ukraine (cnn.com) (https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-05-02-23/index.html)

Ukraine’s counteroffensive appears imminent (https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/01/europe/ukraine-russia-counteroffensive-analysis-intl-hnk/index.html).
The country's front lines are abuzz with vehicle movement and artillery strikes, with regular explosions hitting vital Russian targets in occupied areas. President Volodymyr Zelensky has assured a counteroffensive “will happen (https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-04-30-23/h_4aa8e95b898307bf6c3e540e23b87a7f)," while demurring on any exact start date.
It may have already started; it may be weeks away. We don’t know – but Ukrainians, whom CNN spoke to in Kyiv, are pinning their hopes on this much-anticipated counteroffensive.
Tetiana Kolle-Kolesnikova, 35, left her town Volnovakha in the Donetsk region in the first days of Russia's full-scale invasion. Now she lives and works in Kyiv as a manicurist.
“I expect that our army will win in any case and take back all the occupied territories. And our family will finally be able to return home and see their homeland. We miss home very much," she told CNN.

US media needs to stop lying to it's own population about this war and stop concealing the depth of the US govt involvement in it.

Ukraine is not going to win. Period. That is just the reality of the situation. All that is happening and all that will continue to happen is continued massive population flight, high casualties to those that are forced to stay and can't leave, the complete and utter destruction of Ukraine's entire infrastructure and large swaths of it's housing, Ukraine becoming enslaved by debt to the US govt and wall street vultures like BlackRock (which Zelensky sheepishly bragged about- my only conclusion is he's in on the take), and high ranking Ukraine govt officials enriching themselves by skimming hundreds of millions of dollars of said US aid for their own personal gain and stashing it in off-shore accts.

Everything Ukraine has received has been via lend leasing programs, you know- the same type of aid programs the US offered to the British in WWII- which the British had to service debt payments on for like oh.....70 years. Ukraine is going to be completely destroyed by the time this war is over and those people will be enslaved in debt for an entire generation to the US and what's left over and rebuilt will be owned by Wall Street pigs and the actual everyday working people of that country will basically own nothing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 02, 2023, 05:09:13 PM

professor and computer scientist Geoffrey Hinton aka "The Godfather of AI", one of the early pioneers of artificial neural networks (AI) has quit his work at Google so he could freely speak out about the dangers of this technology and is warning governments of the world to shut down AI research. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/01/godfather-of-ai-leaves-google-after-a-decade-to-warn-of-dangers.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2023, 05:09:43 PM

Is there some lie in the report I cited?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 02, 2023, 05:14:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 02, 2023, 05:09:43 PM

Is there some lie in the report I cited?

it's nothing but a puff piece bullsh!t PR from CNN for the US govt in an attempt at trying to sell/manufacture consent of the US population for continued support ($$$$$) by selling false hope that Ukraine stands a chance, when in reality, they do not. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2023, 05:15:59 PM

Is there a specific lie in the article I cited?

What false hope is it selling?  That Ukraine may mount a counter offensive?  I rather expect one, I of course can't know the results, nor does the article suggest a result.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 02, 2023, 05:22:08 PM

If Ukraine is completely destroyed by Russia, as you assert is inevitable, then they won't need to worry about debt payments or non debt payments to the US, or anyone else.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2023, 06:07:21 PM

I don't foresee any Ukrainian offensive going to the gates of Moscow (nor does that article suggest any such thing).  I think there will be an attempt to regain some ground (which Ukraine already has done to some extent).  I don't see any lie in the article anywhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 02, 2023, 06:21:18 PM

I have read suggestions that Russia is busy building defenses on their soil just incase

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2023, 06:22:15 PM

College Football Playoff expansion: 2024, 2025 schedule release gets mixed reviews (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/LongFormArticle/College-Football-Playoff-expansion-2024-2025-schedule-release-gets-mixed-reviews-209343242/#209343242_5)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 02, 2023, 06:23:19 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 02, 2023, 06:21:18 PM

I have read suggestions that Russia is busy building defenses on their soil just incase

That'd be a silly waste of time and resources, but Russia has acted with such blind stupidity thus far, that nothing would surprise me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 02, 2023, 10:20:50 PM

We need to figure out a solution for our large city shopping districts.  Companies are rightfully pulling out, but with them goes a large tax base.  With more workers going remote, office leasing is way down too


https://twitter.com/mgsiegler/status/1653559540120702977?t=844tTQGFswfiHcBM946HvQ&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on May 02, 2023, 11:59:32 PM

There's a lot of heads in the sand out there right now.

The sale of this Office Tower in SF on California Street is going to really leave a mark on commercial real estate.   The Sale is expected to be $60m, or 75% off market price from 2020.   Hardly a dump but mostly vacant and emblematic of a market that is in shambles.  It's sad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on May 03, 2023, 07:59:43 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 02, 2023, 05:00:31 PM

US media needs to stop lying to it's own population about this war and stop concealing the depth of the US govt involvement in it.

Ukraine is not going to win. Period. That is just the reality of the situation. All that is happening and all that will continue to happen is continued massive population flight, high casualties to those that are forced to stay and can't leave, the complete and utter destruction of Ukraine's entire infrastructure and large swaths of it's housing, Ukraine becoming enslaved by debt to the US govt and wall street vultures like BlackRock (which Zelensky sheepishly bragged about- my only conclusion is he's in on the take), and high ranking Ukraine govt officials enriching themselves by skimming hundreds of millions of dollars of said US aid for their own personal gain and stashing it in off-shore accts.

Everything Ukraine has received has been via lend leasing programs, you know- the same type of aid programs the US offered to the British in WWII- which the British had to service debt payments on for like oh.....70 years. Ukraine is going to be completely destroyed by the time this war is over and those people will be enslaved in debt for an entire generation to the US and what's left over and rebuilt will be owned by Wall Street pigs and the actual everyday working people of that country will basically own nothing.

I respectfully disagree with you Mdot21.  Ukraine has a very good chance to re-claim much of its occupied territory once the ground dries out later this Spring or Summer.  At this point the only way I see Russia winning is if the EU and West stop supplying Ukraine.  Even if China starts supplying Russia or Russia resorts to using nuclear weapons it is not a sure path to victory for Russia.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 08:51:51 AM

The strategic key would be Crimea.  I'm not at all sure Ukraine can regain all of it, but if they did  ....

My GUESS is they have a counteroffensive of some sort with unclear reportage and conflicting claims, and probably some advances into territory now held by Russia.  I have modest expectations because being on the defensive is obviously the easier task, in the main.  That said, the Russian military is such an unknown commodity at this point I think it possible they just fall apart if hit in the nose hard enough.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 03, 2023, 09:03:38 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 02, 2023, 04:19:31 PM

Menu — Pasta da Pulcinella (https://pastadapulcinella.com/menu)

1100 West Peachtree St. NW, in the heart of Midtown Atlanta

Nice menu. Great prices!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 09:08:29 AM

Yeah, for around here, the prices are very reasonable.  There are other Italians restaurants around of course but they aren't as good, don't have the service quality (a lot of turnover), and cost more.  A handful of places here seem able to keep their staff and it makes a big difference.  Maybe not even a handful.  Maybe three.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 09:13:50 AM

Along partisan lines: Our two-party split is tearing the nation apart | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/3982278-along-partisan-lines-our-two-party-split-is-tearing-the-nation-apart/)

Yup.  I don't see a solution.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 03, 2023, 09:15:10 AM

Quote from: ELA on May 02, 2023, 10:20:50 PM

We need to figure out a solution for our large city shopping districts.  Companies are rightfully pulling out, but with them goes a large tax base.  With more workers going remote, office leasing is way down too

When Macy's pulled out of Water Tower Place, I knew it was over for Chicago and the Mag Mile.


Swarovski to return to Chicago's Magnificent Mile as Cartier and Timberland leave | Crain's Chicago Business

 (https://www.chicagobusiness.com/commercial-real-estate/swarovski-return-chicagos-magnificent-mile-cartier-and-timberland-leave)
That's from 2022. The vacancy rate is now around 35%.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 03, 2023, 09:20:03 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 09:08:29 AM

Yeah, for around here, the prices are very reasonable.  There are other Italians restaurants around of course but they aren't as good, don't have the service quality (a lot of turnover), and cost more.  A handful of places here seem able to keep their staff and it makes a big difference.  Maybe not even a handful.  Maybe three.

pasta shouldn't be that expensive

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 09:21:55 AM

Most of the construction around us is apartment buildings, but a fair bit is office towers.  I don't get that at all.  I know outfits have moved out of downtown and to midtown, but there is still a lot of open space here, and work from home is a thing.  And there is a massive new thing going in downtown now as well near the stadium.

Centennial Yards: Connecting Atlanta's Downtown Communities (https://centennialyards.com/?gclid=CjwKCAjwjMiiBhA4EiwAZe6jQ6ouZ3-xJU6kJZA_zvyJr1ql-yYfylEOzBsnPQrKX0nApbcwOyrv4xoCYIkQAvD_BwE)

Massive Downtown development slated to open ahead of 2026 World Cup (fox5atlanta.com) (https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/downtown-atlanta-massive-development-world-cup-hotel)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 03, 2023, 09:35:37 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 03, 2023, 09:20:03 AM

pasta shouldn't be that expensive

It isn't. 

But if it's homemade, it will cost more due to the time to prepare.

Then you factor in the cost of the sauce ingredients and the time to prepare.

Key factor here in most cases is time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 03, 2023, 09:38:45 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 09:21:55 AM

Most of the construction around us is apartment buildings, but a fair bit is office towers.  I don't get that at all.  I know outfits have moved out of downtown and to midtown, but there is still a lot of open space here, and work from home is a thing.  And there is a massive new thing going in downtown now as well near the stadium.

Centennial Yards: Connecting Atlanta's Downtown Communities (https://centennialyards.com/?gclid=CjwKCAjwjMiiBhA4EiwAZe6jQ6ouZ3-xJU6kJZA_zvyJr1ql-yYfylEOzBsnPQrKX0nApbcwOyrv4xoCYIkQAvD_BwE)

Massive Downtown development slated to open ahead of 2026 World Cup (fox5atlanta.com) (https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/downtown-atlanta-massive-development-world-cup-hotel)

Yeah, I'm not seeing the demand either. We haven't worked on an office space project in years.

What I'm seeing now is office conversions to residential. Some condo, some rentals. I've even seen some retail to apartments. The housing is needed - particularly affordable rentals.

Condo is good for us because we have to do condo surveys, which cost good money that we will gladly take.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 09:41:22 AM

I see news here about "affordable housing", but it's a somewhat lower rate that usually is still pretty high for a poorer person.

I see a lot of complaining about it, and I think some/much of this news is a fig leaf.  One new apt had ONE "affordable" unit in it, and that was designated for a local police officer only.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 03, 2023, 09:55:08 AM

Yeah, Johnnie and Alice want affordable housing for people, and they have marches and protests. Then you try to build it next to Johnnie and Alice. The teeth come out. Hypocrites abound. 

I see it all the time, and I'm living through one right now. 3 years in, and we are still nowhere. Have yet to even appear before the planning commission!!! The unelected gatekeepers keep throwing curve balls and moving the goalposts.

It's tough. You can see it in restaurants around here, for example. They tell you 45 minutes for a table, and you can see the place is half-empty. They have tables. They don't have people. We need more affordable housing, which will help solve this problem. And thankfully, it's starting to come in.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 09:58:22 AM

There apparently is some loose requirement in ATL to have some AH in anything new.  I haven't looked at the specifics, but it's something like an apt for folks earning 60% of the whatever income.  That doesn't mean they can afford the rent obviously.

Nobody is going to build a low rent apartment building anywhere near me because of the market.  They will include some poorly optioned apartments and call it AH in a building and charge more for the other rents.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 03, 2023, 10:00:18 AM

Yeah, the stuff coming in around here is definitely not waterfront...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on May 03, 2023, 10:26:30 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 09:58:22 AM

There apparently is some loose requirement in ATL to have some AH in anything new.  I haven't looked at the specifics, but it's something like an apt for folks earning 60% of the whatever income.  That doesn't mean they can afford the rent obviously.

Nobody is going to build a low rent apartment building anywhere near me because of the market.  They will include some poorly optioned apartments and call it AH in a building and charge more for the other rents.

Back when I worked for a home builder that built in California, we were required to pay the local government money for the "priviledge" to sell a certain number of our houses we were building at below our cost to people who we in the affordable housing programs. So we were double dipped, pay the tax and lose money on the house. Of course these cost were known so they were built into the cost of the entire community and everybody else buying in the community ultimately paid for it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 10:31:44 AM

Sure, someone puts up a 30 story apt building with 300 units, 20 of which are AH.  You can guess who pays for it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 03, 2023, 10:46:27 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 10:31:44 AM

Sure, someone puts up a 30 story apt building with 300 units, 20 of which are AH.  You can guess who pays for it.

The ones I do in Illinois are subsidized by the State (its taxpayers).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 03, 2023, 11:05:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 09:13:50 AM

Along partisan lines: Our two-party split is tearing the nation apart | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/3982278-along-partisan-lines-our-two-party-split-is-tearing-the-nation-apart/)

Yup.  I don't see a solution.

The media is complicit in all of this. It's toxic all across the board.

A good start would be to stop violence in the name of certain "causes".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 03, 2023, 11:35:00 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 03, 2023, 11:05:14 AM

The media is complicit in all of this. It's toxic all across the board.

A good start would be to stop violence in the name of certain "causes".

Until we stop feeding on seeing the world in ugly terms, we’ll feel this sort of divided. Media is just a reflection of what “we” want. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 03, 2023, 11:47:08 AM

Quote from: ELA on May 02, 2023, 10:20:50 PM

We need to figure out a solution for our large city shopping districts.  Companies are rightfully pulling out, but with them goes a large tax base.  With more workers going remote, office leasing is way down too


https://twitter.com/mgsiegler/status/1653559540120702977?t=844tTQGFswfiHcBM946HvQ&s=19

Setting aside the crime element, do we really want our shopping there?

Like this is an honest question from a person with a limited interest in shopping. Do you want to go to a place with bad parking to shop? (You might want to go nowhere with bad parking, and that’s another matter)

I can see the appeal of living somewhere a bit more dense. I can see the office value, assuming someone builds the parking for me. But I’ve spent a fair amount of time in SF, and there’s not part of me that thinks, “I want to deal with that traffic and pay through the nose to park and then do that kind of shopping.” And I have a high-ish tolerance for fighting through bad parking.

I guess I’m arguing for people who live in those downtowns, which are popular these days, to not have easy access to that kind of shopping, but I’m kinda whatever there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 03, 2023, 12:08:21 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 03, 2023, 11:35:00 AM

Until we stop feeding on seeing the world in ugly terms, we’ll feel this sort of divided. Media is just a reflection of what “we” want.

Which is why we don't tune in very often, except for our local* news.

On Fox, it's Baier or nothing for us, and mostly nothing. Nothing on the other channels compels me to watch as they all opinion (and divisive). At least with Baier we can get some real news (and only a smattering of opinion when there is a guest sometimes).



* The reporters are mostly smoking hot down here. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 03, 2023, 12:14:58 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 03, 2023, 11:35:00 AM

Until we stop feeding on seeing the world in ugly terms, we’ll feel this sort of divided. Media is just a reflection of what “we” want.

Nah.    I want facts and truth.  I can’t stand to watch or listen to media- exactly none of it is what I want.

of course I know you are being fashionable. It’s the “ thing” now to see a story that makes you feel horrible, only to be told that it is your own fault for feeling that way.  Like the guy in Texas who murdered a whole family, including an 8 year old, execution style.  He had been deported multiple times.  Those are the facts.

It’s my fault - in your theory- to be frustrated by that because in your theory- that’s what I want to hear. 

needless to say- respectfully-  BS.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 03, 2023, 12:20:15 PM

"you and I"

are much different than "we"

You and I don't drive ratings

"we" drive ratings

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 12:38:12 PM

I find the various business channels have less fluff and opinion, other than what stock to buy etc. (which I ignore).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 03, 2023, 12:39:31 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 03, 2023, 11:35:00 AM

Until we stop feeding on seeing the world in ugly terms, we’ll feel this sort of divided. Media is just a reflection of what “we” want.

I've talked about this a lot, but I think this is just technology and the tribal human brain cooperating in a symbiotic relationship to destroy any sense of a cohesive society. 

In 1970, everyone had three channels to get the news. Maybe the news was slanted one way or the other, but the entire country lived in the same reality, with the same facts. When you disagreed with your neighbor, you had different opinions and perhaps different analysis, but you both had access to the same prism within which to view the world, because they were the same. 

In 2023, everyone has so many options to get the news that they may never even see the same prism as their neighbor. It's beyond the addition of cable news. It's YouTube and podcasts and social media algorithms. As I've said before, WAY too many people in our society construct a nice, comfortable cocoon of confirmation bias around themselves, and actively shun anything beyond it that might make them feel icky. 

I know some people disagree with me, but I truly believe that it has led to people from "the other sides" living in completely different subjective realities. 

It would be like if we were both watching a documentary on the Rwandan Civil War, in the native language of Kinyarwanda. Because neither of us speak it, we have subtitles. But you're fed subtitles that make the Hutus out to be heroes and the Tutsis out to be villains, and I am fed subtitles with the exact opposite. And then we discuss the film and you think I must be a monster for supporting the Tutsis, and I think you must be an imbecile for supporting the Hutus. 

That's the world in which we live. We can't even begin to understand "the other side" because they live in a reality that we don't even experience. So we can't fathom how they could see everything we see and then believe something other than we believe; they must either be evil or stupid. We don't even consider that they DON'T see everything we see, and we DON'T see everything they see, because we've each constructed our subjective experience of reality to filter each other's viewpoints out. 

Avoiding confirmation bias is hard, like exercise, and that's why so few people do it. Most don't even know what it is or that it's a problem. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 12:47:06 PM

Good news often gets ignored.  For example, we have this group called Midtown Alliance here, they do architectural reviews and planning studies and have various events.  Today they had "free lunch" and a meet and greet at a small park they recently redid.  We spoke with their President at some length.  They really are going a lot of good things sort of hidden from view.  Here is a photo:

(https://i.imgur.com/5ta8upM.jpg)

Below is a small dog park they added to this parklet.  It helped that the weather was spectacular.  One thing they do is taking small spaces like this one and making parklets.  They also have "Midtown Blue" which is a local police force in effect in addition to APD.  They really add to the livability of this area.

(https://i.imgur.com/5SdB5AI.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 03, 2023, 12:47:19 PM

freedom of the press is a bitch

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 12:52:54 PM

One can read about the newspapers in the 19th century and how rabidly partisan they were then.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 01:09:32 PM

So, on the bad news front ...

Atlanta Police investigating an active shooter at a building in Midtown | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/03/us/atlanta-midtown-shooting/index.html)

I got three alerts to avoid the area.  This is about a mile away.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 01:26:34 PM

RSV vaccine: FDA approves GSK shot for older adults (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/03/rsv-vaccine-fda-approves-gsk-shot-for-older-adults.html)

I had never heard of RSV preCOVID.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 03, 2023, 01:31:01 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 01:26:34 PM

RSV vaccine: FDA approves GSK shot for older adults (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/03/rsv-vaccine-fda-approves-gsk-shot-for-older-adults.html)

I had never heard of RSV preCOVID.

new one for me too

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 01:44:55 PM

This location is where that Italian restaurant is.  The shooting may have been in an apartment building or a hospital, it's not clear.  I'm at home.  I'm hearing helicopters outside.  We're a mile distant.

This made national headlines.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 03, 2023, 02:18:06 PM

My favorite is when the person holds their one, individual experience above the aggregate data point of millions of people.

Super cool.  Really useful.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 02:20:30 PM

Talking about the shooting happening inside Northside Medical Center (where we had rehab back when).   This is basically medical offices of various types.  Unfortunately a shooter has a lot of places to hide and could even have gotten to the subway from there.  I'm hearing sireens all over and helicopters overhead.  I'm staying inside obviously.

My wife is uptown at a doctor's office.

I can't imagine why anyone would want to shoot up this medical center aside from being out of his mind.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 03, 2023, 02:23:07 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 02:20:30 PM

Talking about the shooting happening inside Northside Medical Center (where we had rehab back when).  This is basically medical offices of various types.  Unfortunately a shooter has a lot of places to hide and could even have gotten to the subway from there.  I'm hearing sireens all over and helicopters overhead.  I'm staying inside obviously.

My wife is uptown at a doctor's office.

I can't imagine why anyone would want to shoot up this medical center aside from being out of his mind.

Maybe they gave him his medical bill.....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 03, 2023, 02:29:14 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 03, 2023, 12:14:58 PM

Nah.    I want facts and truth.  I can’t stand to watch or listen to media- exactly none of it is what I want.

of course I know you are being fashionable. It’s the “ thing” now to see a story that makes you feel horrible, only to be told that it is your own fault for feeling that way.  Like the guy in Texas who murdered a whole family, including an 8 year old, execution style.  He had been deported multiple times.  Those are the facts.

It’s my fault - in your theory- to be frustrated by that because in your theory- that’s what I want to hear. 

needless to say- respectfully-  BS.

Fashionable? I don’t think anyone has ever called me that.

I’m not sure what the rest of the post means, but I’ll endeavor to avoid falling into a pointless internet fight and not push back. If you feel it’s BS, that’s AOK.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 02:36:04 PM

• The shooting happened after a man became enraged (https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/atlanta-midtown-shooting/h_a08b17d5cea2c63637e522653b48fb33) during a trip to a medical facility, police said.
• Images showing the suspected shooter wearing a hoodie were released by authorities. (https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/atlanta-midtown-shooting/h_d5c0c69af24785dd35a3fb85692fccaa)
• Police said they know who the shooter is, but the suspect remains at large.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 03, 2023, 03:03:20 PM

I've been pissed off with a few doctors in the past

not enough to do anything really stupid

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 03:05:24 PM

Atlanta police have identified the man accused of killing at least one person and injuring several others Wednesday as 24-year-old Deion Patterson.
“Call 911— DO NOT approach him,” the tweet (https://twitter.com/Atlanta_Police/status/1653829784378417154?s=20) from APD said.
Police said the suspect is considered armed and dangerous.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 03, 2023, 03:07:10 PM

is shooting "several" people cornsidered a "mass" shooting?

I think I know the answer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 03:09:24 PM

One definition is where four or more are shot (wounded or killed).  So this would be that.

As they have a hard ID, I'd think they should catch him fairly soon, I hope anyway.  My wife is home safe.

That's an "up and coming" area, a lot of new construction nearby.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 03, 2023, 03:22:31 PM

You would think all of the video available now would be a deterrent. I just don't get it.

(https://i.imgur.com/F8bOQhd.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 03, 2023, 03:22:57 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 03, 2023, 02:18:06 PM

My favorite is when the person holds their one, individual experience above the aggregate data point of millions of people.

Super cool.  Really useful.

Yes, how dare someone let their actual experiences shape their perceptions. 

we see it all the time. Like the lady in NYC
who recently railed publicly about crime because her husband was viciously murdered in broad daylight.  The Mayor and the media basically told her to shut up because crime is down ( how they measure it-of course).  To your point- there are millions of people walking around on the streets every day in NYC who are not murdered. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 03:24:02 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/aO4kvYw.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 03, 2023, 03:25:17 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 03, 2023, 03:22:31 PM

You would think all of the video available now would be a deterrent. I just don't get it.

(https://i.imgur.com/F8bOQhd.png)

A deterrent to getting caught must first fear the consequences.  In many ways and especially certain places, there is no fear of the consequences.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 03:28:47 PM

In this case, I'd guess the guy just went crazy, and maybe already was crazy.  Fear of consequences is not a factor in decision making at that point.  The shelter in place order is lifted, they think he's moved somewhere else.

I was impressed with how quickly that many LEOs got into position, from multiple agencies include Tech police.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 03, 2023, 03:48:48 PM

Gotta find the guy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 03, 2023, 04:33:09 PM

I wish the Federal Reserve would sit down and shut up for a while.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 04, 2023, 05:28:21 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 03, 2023, 03:22:57 PM

Yes, how dare someone let their actual experiences shape their perceptions.

we see it all the time. Like the lady in NYC
who recently railed publicly about crime because her husband was viciously murdered in broad daylight.  The Mayor and the media basically told her to shut up because crime is down ( how they measure it-of course).  To your point- there are millions of people walking around on the streets every day in NYC who are not murdered.

Math iz hard

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 04, 2023, 06:24:56 AM

What a $15K (per month) apartment looks like in Old Fourth Ward | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/what-15k-month-apartment-looks-old-fourth-ward-images)

Yeow.

the smallest and cheapest floorplan listed to date (775 square feet) is a one-bedroom, one-bathroom option asking $2,628 monthly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on May 04, 2023, 07:35:28 AM

I’m of the opinion that if the free market were allowed to work we would not need “ affordable housing “. 

Read an article years ago about housing in the Bay Area. Govt artificially restricts building ( excessive costs, unnecessary permits and red tape). Therefore very little construction gets done, and that that does is very $$$. Then they have laws about how much rent you can charge, and how often rent can increase so people just stay in the same housing for decades because they can’t afford to move. This limits the housing to other people who can afford it, who would otherwise be willing to pay the prices for new construction. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on May 04, 2023, 07:41:18 AM

So basically then the govt has all these AH, which further twists up and limits the market, and drives up the costs for every one. But people believe that the govt must do something, which only makes it worse. Over and over. 

Just like college. At one time a person could scrimp and scrape by paying their way waiting tables or other similar jobs. Then came the guaranteed student loans, all the govt backed programs. End result :  people finish with a mountain of debt, limited job options, and a devalued degree. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on May 04, 2023, 07:42:21 AM

On that note I’ve seen data that suggest getting a college degree is 5x more expensive than it was 40-50 years ago. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 04, 2023, 08:06:23 AM

"We" used to have housing projects of course, like Cabrini Green, that cleared slums.  There were two early large ones here, one black one white.  They're gone now of course.  And the slum areas were really bad circa 1950.  The projects were an improvement, at least for a while.

I was told yesterday we have rooms for the homeless here but the ones on the streets don't want to live indoors.  And you can't legally make them.  Fortunately around us it's not that major a problem, nothing like Tenderloin in SF.  Not much is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 04, 2023, 08:40:29 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 04, 2023, 05:28:21 AM

Math iz hard

Apparently, so is logic and common sense.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 04, 2023, 09:46:27 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 04, 2023, 08:40:29 AM

Apparently, so is logic and common sense.

So it's logical to value the...let's say safety....of the 1 person you know more highly than the thousands of strangers you don't?

Yeah.
Math iz hardr than I thot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 04, 2023, 09:53:37 AM

Quote from: Gigem on May 04, 2023, 07:35:28 AM

I’m of the opinion that if the free market were allowed to work we would not need “ affordable housing “.

Read an article years ago about housing in the Bay Area. Govt artificially restricts building ( excessive costs, unnecessary permits and red tape). Therefore very little construction gets done, and that that does is very $$$. Then they have laws about how much rent you can charge, and how often rent can increase so people just stay in the same housing for decades because they can’t afford to move. This limits the housing to other people who can afford it, who would otherwise be willing to pay the prices for new construction.

Maybeeee, except then you wind up with a service class of workers who can't live anywhere near the places that need servicing and they have no way to get there.

Unless you're going to bus them all in from afar, it doesn't work.  And why spend a long time on a bus to do a low-paying service job when you can just walk down the street 10 min and do the same low-playing job?  Why waste time on travel to service the rich who let the free market boot you out when you can service the average nearby?

Here in Phoenix, a 1-bdrm apartment in the ghetto is $1200/mo.  Plenty of new apartments being built, all around, and every single one of them are "luxury" apartments. 
Doesn't help the problem.
Scottsdale is pretty hoity-toity....where do you think their service workers live?  Not Scottsdale!  But it's not a peninsula with limited space, so all the service workers ride or drive in from the surrounding, poorer areas.
Hell, you could make the argument that Mesa is a 1,000,000 person service city.  Poor, run-down, but adjacent to nicer parts of town.  
Hooray free market!!!
Now the poor can have worse infrastructure and worse schools to maintain their role as service industry to the wealthy!  
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on May 04, 2023, 10:30:58 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 04, 2023, 09:53:37 AM

Maybeeee, except then you wind up with a service class of workers who can't live anywhere near the places that need servicing and they have no way to get there.

Unless you're going to bus them all in from afar, it doesn't work.  And why spend a long time on a bus to do a low-paying service job when you can just walk down the street 10 min and do the same low-playing job?  Why waste time on travel to service the rich who let the free market boot you out when you can service the average nearby?

Here in Phoenix, a 1-bdrm apartment in the ghetto is $1200/mo.  Plenty of new apartments being built, all around, and every single one of them are "luxury" apartments. 
Doesn't help the problem.
Scottsdale is pretty hoity-toity....where do you think their service workers live?  Not Scottsdale!  But it's not a peninsula with limited space, so all the service workers ride or drive in from the surrounding, poorer areas.
Hell, you could make the argument that Mesa is a 1,000,000 person service city.  Poor, run-down, but adjacent to nicer parts of town. 
Hooray free market!!!
Now the poor can have worse infrastructure and worse schools to maintain their role as service industry to the wealthy! 
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

Well, the market should determine the prices.  If the businesses COULD NOT get any workers, the pay would go up, otherwise they would have to shut down.  Can we agree on that much?  In fact, I've known businesses that could not get workers and had to shut down.  No workers = no work.  

But cities create red tape, NIMBY policies, unnecessary regulations, excess permits, the whole 9 yards of bureaucracy that limit housing options.  Limited options will always result in high prices.  This includes rent control and AH, they create artificial markets that influence the real market.  

What I'm trying to say is what would fix a lot of this is less regulation, not more.  Because as long as the gov't steps in and creates artificial influence on the market it will always result in a worse condition for the very people they are trying to help.  

This is not a perfect world, and sometimes people will have to endure shitty circumstances.  Some people grow out of it, and some never do and sometimes (oftentimes) it is their own fault.  It's not the gov't responsibility to ensure "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness".  It's only their role to ensure that you are able to pursue it, not guarantee it.  The very fact that the more gov't involvement in places like CA and NY result in population migration to places with less taxes and regulation is evidence of this.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 04, 2023, 10:41:17 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 04, 2023, 09:53:37 AM

Maybeeee, except then you wind up with a service class of workers who can't live anywhere near the places that need servicing and they have no way to get there.

Unless you're going to bus them all in from afar, it doesn't work.  And why spend a long time on a bus to do a low-paying service job when you can just walk down the street 10 min and do the same low-playing job?  Why waste time on travel to service the rich who let the free market boot you out when you can service the average nearby?

Here in Phoenix, a 1-bdrm apartment in the ghetto is $1200/mo.  Plenty of new apartments being built, all around, and every single one of them are "luxury" apartments. 
Doesn't help the problem.
Scottsdale is pretty hoity-toity....where do you think their service workers live?  Not Scottsdale!  But it's not a peninsula with limited space, so all the service workers ride or drive in from the surrounding, poorer areas.
Hell, you could make the argument that Mesa is a 1,000,000 person service city.  Poor, run-down, but adjacent to nicer parts of town. 
Hooray free market!!!
Now the poor can have worse infrastructure and worse schools to maintain their role as service industry to the wealthy! 
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

OAM, you completely missed the point. 

The main problem is government policies which artificially restrict housing density. This causes desirable areas to have demand rise faster than supply can be built, leading to high housing costs. 

And it's not "gov't" in the main--these policies are usually driven precisely by the residents who ALREADY live there. So it's not like I'm just saying this is the result of bureaucrats mucking things up--they're doing exactly what their constituents ask for. 

You *almost* allude to it with the Scottsdale example, which is a rich area where the residents will fight tooth and nail AGAINST any project which increases housing density because they want Scottsdale to stay hoity-toity and price the riff-raff out. It's called "NIMBYism", for "not in my backyard". I.e. people are all for affordable or low-income housing and higher housing density, wherever THEY don't live. 

People live in neighborhoods. They fear those neighborhoods changing from increased density. So they don't allow anything to be built. And then the service workers who can't afford to live there have to come in from somewhere else. 

Increase housing supply, and the service workers might be able to afford to live there. Create Byzantine "affordable housing" restrictions while doing everything you can to stop the increase of housing supply? Well you see where that's gotten us, because that's the status quo. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 04, 2023, 11:27:19 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 04, 2023, 09:46:27 AM

So it's logical to value the...let's say safety....of the 1 person you know more highly than the thousands of strangers you don't?

Yeah.
Math iz hardr than I thot.

Apparently so is reading comprehension. 🥴🥴

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on May 04, 2023, 11:35:06 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 04, 2023, 10:41:17 AM

OAM, you completely missed the point.

The main problem is government policies which artificially restrict housing density. This causes desirable areas to have demand rise faster than supply can be built, leading to high housing costs.

And it's not "gov't" in the main--these policies are usually driven precisely by the residents who ALREADY live there. So it's not like I'm just saying this is the result of bureaucrats mucking things up--they're doing exactly what their constituents ask for.

You *almost* allude to it with the Scottsdale example, which is a rich area where the residents will fight tooth and nail AGAINST any project which increases housing density because they want Scottsdale to stay hoity-toity and price the riff-raff out. It's called "NIMBYism", for "not in my backyard". I.e. people are all for affordable or low-income housing and higher housing density, wherever THEY don't live.

People live in neighborhoods. They fear those neighborhoods changing from increased density. So they don't allow anything to be built. And then the service workers who can't afford to live there have to come in from somewhere else.

Increase housing supply, and the service workers might be able to afford to live there. Create Byzantine "affordable housing" restrictions while doing everything you can to stop the increase of housing supply? Well you see where that's gotten us, because that's the status quo.

Yes, exactly.  And there has been study after study that supports the notion that until the gov't (and to be clear I was speaking more so about local and state gov't than the feds) allows a higher population density the problem will remain.  But nobody wants the sort of population density in their backyard, even in the slums.  

As an example of the kind of over-reach the gov't requires is that if you build a home in California out in the country you're supposed to supply a water supply for the fire dept.  I forget the quantity, but it's something like 3,000 or 5,000 gallons with dual pumps with their own power supply.  Just in case your house catches in fire, so the fire dept. can put it out.  Now I may be just a tad bit off, but shouldn't that decision be left up to the homeowner?  That is my house catches on fire, and I don't have a water supply for the FD, that welp it's my loss?  If we had this crap in TX nothing would ever get built.  Because we are still a lot of rural communities here.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 04, 2023, 11:36:44 AM

Quote from: Gigem on May 04, 2023, 07:35:28 AM

I’m of the opinion that if the free market were allowed to work we would not need “ affordable housing “.

Read an article years ago about housing in the Bay Area. Govt artificially restricts building ( excessive costs, unnecessary permits and red tape). Therefore very little construction gets done, and that that does is very $$$. Then they have laws about how much rent you can charge, and how often rent can increase so people just stay in the same housing for decades because they can’t afford to move. This limits the housing to other people who can afford it, who would otherwise be willing to pay the prices for new construction.

I think that’s a mild factor, specifically when it comes to density, but for the most part, I’d argue the demand side is still doing most of the work.

Like, NIMBYism is a damn issue, and it could stand to increase density. But when push comes to shove, there’s very, very little space in the core of the area and a boatload of people with good jobs who want to be there.

The market solution is more people need to decide they don’t want to pay so much. That is what it is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on May 04, 2023, 12:08:49 PM

But when you restrict what landlords can charge you have people who will stay far longer than they otherwise would. This artificially limiting supply. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 04, 2023, 01:05:26 PM

The problem with that is that unless there is a major influx of supply, what you're not paying on your mortgage you put into your gas tank.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 04, 2023, 01:21:16 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on May 04, 2023, 01:05:26 PM

The problem with that is that unless there is a major influx of supply, what you're not paying on your mortgage you put into your gas tank.

Generally I don't think the extra gas costs are remotely equivalent to the housing difference. And in bigger metro areas, there are often transit options that available, although not always getting exactly from where you are to exactly where you need to be. 

But the biggest problem for people that have to live that far out is the TIME necessary to drive or commute in. They're giving up 2-4 hours of their day, every day, just to be able to go try to spend 8(+?) hours earning. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 04, 2023, 01:33:53 PM

Quote from: Gigem on May 04, 2023, 11:35:06 AM

Yes, exactly.  And there has been study after study that supports the notion that until the gov't (and to be clear I was speaking more so about local and state gov't than the feds) allows a higher population density the problem will remain.  But nobody wants the sort of population density in their backyard, even in the slums. 

As an example of the kind of over-reach the gov't requires is that if you build a home in California out in the country you're supposed to supply a water supply for the fire dept.  I forget the quantity, but it's something like 3,000 or 5,000 gallons with dual pumps with their own power supply.  Just in case your house catches in fire, so the fire dept. can put it out.  Now I may be just a tad bit off, but shouldn't that decision be left up to the homeowner?  That is my house catches on fire, and I don't have a water supply for the FD, that welp it's my loss?  If we had this crap in TX nothing would ever get built.  Because we are still a lot of rural communities here. 

Probably because fires don't stop at property lines and it's not about the individual.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 04, 2023, 01:40:35 PM

Quote from: Gigem on May 04, 2023, 12:08:49 PM

But when you restrict what landlords can charge you have people who will stay far longer than they otherwise would. This artificially limiting supply.

Okay, but without that, in the SF peninsula (or whatever it's actually called), there's not enough supply, even if it's genuine (not artificial). 

With genuine high demand/low supply, you'd have the same number of people paying more for the same spaces and those who cannot afford it having to commute in, which is a whole other problem.

I agree that the government probably oversteps and has bad ideas and can be draconian about it. Of course.  But for the Bay Area specifically, the artificial limitation of supply is irrelevant, because the demand will far outpace supply there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 04, 2023, 01:49:39 PM

I've been in the land development business for 35+ years, and trust me, the government overreach is absurd, and it gets worse every year. 

I'm at the point where I don't work on many development projects anymore - and I no longer manage projects save for a few - with good clients who know the games.

One of my engineers is working on a development now, which will require a permit from 36 different agencies. 36. And some of the regulations conflict with other regulations.

F that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 04, 2023, 02:17:38 PM

Here is an example of a new development coming in near where we live. It is not subsidized.

Parkside Punta Gorda is a pet-friendly apartment community in Punta Gorda, FL (https://parksidepuntagorda.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 04, 2023, 02:24:21 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 04, 2023, 01:40:35 PM

Okay, but without that, in the SF peninsula (or whatever it's actually called), there's not enough supply, even if it's genuine (not artificial).

With genuine high demand/low supply, you'd have the same number of people paying more for the same spaces and those who cannot afford it having to commute in, which is a whole other problem.

I agree that the government probably oversteps and has bad ideas and can be draconian about it. Of course.  But for the Bay Area specifically, the artificial limitation of supply is irrelevant, because the demand will far outpace supply there.

Bear in mind that supply has been limited artificially for decades. As it relates to SF proper (not the rest of the Bay Area):

https://www.fastcompany.com/90242388/the-bad-design-that-created-one-of-americas-worst-housing-crises

Quote

In 1928, the commission finally established height limits of 40 feet for parts of the city’s wealthiest enclaves—the Marina, Pacific Heights, and Presidio Heights. That same year, the San Francisco Planning Commission gained additional power through a charter amendment, which included provisions for hiring a city planning engineer, posting neighborhood-development notices, and crafting the first citywide general plan. But the commission’s increased power did not mean more protection for city’s disadvantaged residents.

(snip)


As the threat of litigation became a new constant, the San Francisco Planning Department slowly began to craft a new approach to development. The city’s 1971 Urban Design Plan was the first to codify the shift in values from the Modernist freeway-and-tower model toward a greater respect for San Francisco’s unique neighborhoods and their human-scale features. The plan focused on preserving and expanding existing neighborhood character, and was influenced by a coalition of environmentalists, affordable-housing advocates, and preservation groups who recognized the power of zoning to limit change, for better or worse. For example, its guidelines for building size suggested that new development should mirror the “height and character of existing development.” Notably, many of the plan’s proposals to increase livability, such as greening public spaces and improving street safety, mostly omitted the city’s densest, lower-income neighborhoods like the Tenderloin, Chinatown, and South of Market.

However, the plan also identified 11 areas for taller residential buildings, which local activists immediately fought as the “Manhattanization” of San Francisco. In the face of these criticisms, the department revised its plan after a series of public hearings, resulting in the removal of these high-rise zones.

But the largest legislative achievement of this emerging anti-growth coalition would be the Residential Rezoning of 1978, a project to implement stricter controls across all of San Francisco’s neighborhoods. In addition to creating 40-foot building-height limits for most residential areas, the legislation included new setback rules (regulating how far a building could be from the public right-of-way), low-density requirements (limiting the number of housing units in a given building), and overall design guidelines aimed at preserving entire neighborhoods in amber. The decision to adopt these new limits included a lengthy EIR and public-hearing process, featuring speakers both for and against such exclusionary zoning. For example, several homeowners echoed the sentiments of Ms. Marie Potz, who said she was perfectly happy with her street’s height limit being lowered after someone had built “a huge three-story monstrosity.” Potz made the unfounded claim that there was no housing shortage and asserted that the city had overproduced apartments. “What we need,” she said, “is more single-family houses.”

In sharp contrast to these kinds of aesthetic complaints, many residents, homeowner associations, and community groups spoke forcefully against the rezoning and the inevitable rise in housing prices at a time when San Francisco was already short on affordable housing. Ed Lawson, representing the Richmond District Council, said the zoning was too restrictive and would harm low-income residents the most. Jerry Horowitz of the San Francisco Planners Network explained that the rising cost of housing was already changing the makeup of neighborhoods. “While well-prepared groups concerned with preserving the character of their neighborhoods have had their demands for lower densities heard, low-income residents have lacked the organization to speak up for their own housing needs,” he said.

(snip)

It’s clear that many San Franciscans were well aware this rezoning would lead the city toward a housing crisis. The planning commissioners, however, were not moved. Their testimony throughout the hearings made it clear they valued maintaining the city’s predominately suburban layout over affordability. In response to a homeowner who was unhappy that his property would be downzoned to allow fewer units, commissioner Sue Bierman gave a quintessential anti-growth response—countering that San Franciscans were concerned about parking, traffic, and sunlight reaching their backyards, embracing a shift toward zoning that would preserve “more comfortable neighborhoods.” Instead of listening to those folks worried about becoming homeless, the commissioners focused on the single-family homeowners worried about shadows on their yards and parking for their cars.

In the final minutes of the June 27, 1978, meeting, San Francisco’s planning commissioners prepared to approve the EIR, along with its damning final clause, which explained that the project would reduce the amount of housing that could legally be built in San Francisco. “As a result the cost of housing may increase, and that with increasing housing costs, some population groups may find it difficult to live in San Francisco. The proposed zoning will affect the low- and moderate-income households more than any other group and mitigation measures are proposed to help alleviate this impact.”

But commissioner Bierman said she was “troubled” by this statement, and commissioner Nakashima agreed, complaining that it wasn’t the solely the planning department’s fault if housing prices continued to rise. Commissioner Rosenblatt suggested removing the clause entirely—and that’s exactly what they did, erasing their acknowledgement of the plan’s disastrous effects from the document moments before approving it.

(snip)

San Francisco’s new zoning left most of the city restricted to buildings under 40 feet in height with no more than three residential units allowed. The legislation also gave implicit support to homeowners seeking to block construction of apartment buildings, even if they were allowed under existing zoning. Just as Kenneth T. Jackson explained in Crabgrass Frontier, yet again, “zoning was used by the people who already lived within the arbitrary boundaries of a community as a method of keeping everyone else out. Apartments, factories, and ‘blight,’ euphemisms for blacks and people of limited means, were rigidly excluded.”

So you can complain about a lack of affordable housing 2023, but at the same time please look at the fact that the residents of San Francisco have spent essentially an entire century fighting against anything that would lead to affordable housing.

The truth is that the Bay Area is a wonderful place, with a huge number of high-paying jobs, great weather, natural beauty, and a whole lot of other things that make it desirable.

So you're right that demand will ALWAYS be high. And so it will naturally end up being more expensive than Bililngs, MT. But if they'd allowed for higher density housing, the supply/demand relationship would likely be balanced at a much lower price point than where it is today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 04, 2023, 05:30:08 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 04, 2023, 02:24:21 PM

Bear in mind that supply has been limited artificially for decades. As it relates to SF proper (not the rest of the Bay Area):

https://www.fastcompany.com/90242388/the-bad-design-that-created-one-of-americas-worst-housing-crises



So you can complain about a lack of affordable housing 2023, but at the same time please look at the fact that the residents of San Francisco have spent essentially an entire century fighting against anything that would lead to affordable housing.

The truth is that the Bay Area is a wonderful place, with a huge number of high-paying jobs, great weather, natural beauty, and a whole lot of other things that make it desirable.

So you're right that demand will ALWAYS be high. And so it will naturally end up being more expensive than Bililngs, MT. But if they'd allowed for higher density housing, the supply/demand relationship would likely be balanced at a much lower price point than where it is today.

I think that last part might be overstating it a tad.

It is true that SF and other Bay Area cities placed certain limits on these things. But it’s also true that even with all that, SF is the second-densest big city in the country. And the impact of all that demand has high home prices for like 40 miles in several directions.

More apartments in SF would eat into that demand, but chances are low it’s moving the price point in most of the inner Bay Area all that much. (And I think they need a lot more high-density housing, despite what the dipshits in my hometown think)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 04, 2023, 06:41:48 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 04, 2023, 05:30:08 PM

I think that last part might be overstating it a tad.

It is true that SF and other Bay Area cities placed certain limits on these things. But it’s also true that even with all that, SF is the second-densest big city in the country. And the impact of all that demand has high home prices for like 40 miles in several directions.

More apartments in SF would eat into that demand, but chances are low it’s moving the price point in most of the inner Bay Area all that much. (And I think they need a lot more high-density housing, despite what the dipshits in my hometown think)

Sorry, maybe I was a little too quick. I then went to run an errand and thought of additional things I should have said lol...

The issue to me isn't really about SF. It's everywhere. And when responding to OAM, it's important to highlight that this isn't a liberal or conservative problem. It's a human problem. 

The general aspect of humanity, and this transcends politics, is "I've already got mine, so f**k you if you want a bit of it."

It would be easy to blame that attitude in Scottsdale AZ on a bunch of conservatives. A little harder to blame that attitude in SF on them being liberal. Which is why I say it transcends it. 

This attitude happens throughout the rest of the Bay Area as well. It happens all over the country. It's a natural attitude of "I moved here because I liked it; and if you try to f**king change it I'll sue your a$$ off."

Without zoning, the entire Bay Area would be higher density. Because there would be economic incentive for developers to increase it. Buy a couple SFHs, demolish them and turn them into duplexes (or fourplexes), worry about the parking externalities problems later, sell it off knowing the new owner can live in one unit and have rental income from the other(s), and BOOM! you've made a profit. There's already an entire industry devoted to flipping houses (and multiple TV shows glorifying it); do you think the same wouldn't happen for turning SFHs into duplexes if zoning didn't prevent it? 

The dipshits in your hometown are the same as every dipshit everywhere. I used SF as an example, but the entire Bay Area is full of people that are fighting against density, and in the aggregate, that's FAR more effective than anything just done in SF. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on May 04, 2023, 06:45:08 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 04, 2023, 01:40:35 PM

Okay, but without that, in the SF peninsula (or whatever it's actually called), there's not enough supply, even if it's genuine (not artificial).

With genuine high demand/low supply, you'd have the same number of people paying more for the same spaces and those who cannot afford it having to commute in, which is a whole other problem.

I agree that the government probably oversteps and has bad ideas and can be draconian about it. Of course.  But for the Bay Area specifically, the artificial limitation of supply is irrelevant, because the demand will far outpace supply there.

Listen, nobody has to do nothing. If these people can’t find affordable housing, they can simply move to a place that does have access to affordable housing and better paying jobs ( COL adjusted ). Remember, SF as a whole didn’t even exist 200 years ago. So people that were unhappy with their current circumstances are the ones that populated it after 1849. 

The long article BART posted is exactly what I was referring to. Obviously the area is geography limited, but on the whole could be much denser. 

All of the other measures since then only make things worse. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 04, 2023, 06:57:08 PM

You can't just say people who can't afford to live there shouldn't live there.  Those places NEED the lower class to serve the upper class.  
You can't have a park-n-ride for the custodial staff of the Gucci store halfway to Sacramento.  
.
I find the conversation a waste of time because greed isn't ending anytime soon.  I'm just flabbergasted that in times when the poor can't afford affordable housing, the only new construction is "luxury" this and that.  It's fucking idiotic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on May 04, 2023, 07:15:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 04, 2023, 06:57:08 PM

.
I find the conversation a waste of time because greed isn't ending anytime soon.  I'm just flabbergasted that in times when the poor can't afford affordable housing, the only new construction is "luxury" this and that.  It's fucking idiotic.

If there are ten thousand restrictions on new builds and you need a small army of lawyers to get a project off the ground, it's going to be a project that hopes to make a lot of money.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 04, 2023, 08:13:18 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 04, 2023, 06:57:08 PM

You can't just say people who can't afford to live there shouldn't live there.  Those places NEED the lower class to serve the upper class. 
You can't have a park-n-ride for the custodial staff of the Gucci store halfway to Sacramento. 
.
I find the conversation a waste of time because greed isn't ending anytime soon.  I'm just flabbergasted that in times when the poor can't afford affordable housing, the only new construction is "luxury" this and that.  It's fucking idiotic.

SF Bay Area: <spends a century enacting gov't policies that make affordable housing impossible to build>

SF Bay Area: "OMG we have an affordability problem! Why can't the gov't fix it?"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 04, 2023, 09:15:01 PM

the hordes of people crapping in the streets are probably not earning all that much. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 04, 2023, 09:31:17 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on May 04, 2023, 07:15:26 PM

If there are ten thousand restrictions on new builds and you need a small army of lawyers to get a project off the ground, it's going to be a project that hopes to make a lot of money.

Of course...and I hope they make all the money they want....but it's not something needed, which makes it less likely to succeed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 04, 2023, 09:44:21 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 04, 2023, 06:41:48 PM

Sorry, maybe I was a little too quick. I then went to run an errand and thought of additional things I should have said lol...

The issue to me isn't really about SF. It's everywhere. And when responding to OAM, it's important to highlight that this isn't a liberal or conservative problem. It's a human problem.

The general aspect of humanity, and this transcends politics, is "I've already got mine, so f**k you if you want a bit of it."

It would be easy to blame that attitude in Scottsdale AZ on a bunch of conservatives. A little harder to blame that attitude in SF on them being liberal. Which is why I say it transcends it.

This attitude happens throughout the rest of the Bay Area as well. It happens all over the country. It's a natural attitude of "I moved here because I liked it; and if you try to f**king change it I'll sue your a$$ off."

Without zoning, the entire Bay Area would be higher density. Because there would be economic incentive for developers to increase it. Buy a couple SFHs, demolish them and turn them into duplexes (or fourplexes), worry about the parking externalities problems later, sell it off knowing the new owner can live in one unit and have rental income from the other(s), and BOOM! you've made a profit. There's already an entire industry devoted to flipping houses (and multiple TV shows glorifying it); do you think the same wouldn't happen for turning SFHs into duplexes if zoning didn't prevent it?

The dipshits in your hometown are the same as every dipshit everywhere. I used SF as an example, but the entire Bay Area is full of people that are fighting against density, and in the aggregate, that's FAR more effective than anything just done in SF.

So this is interesting and I agree with most of it, but I honestly still don't think it fixes the affordability problem. 

It might help. At the moment more than a few cities out that way are throwing up apartments like the world is ending. It's gonna be like putting paper towels on a bullet wound, but it's something. 

But the issue is still demand, demand, demand. 

SF might have spent all that time fighting against more density. And yet, SF is very, very, very dense. It is not lacking for density. It is not a city of big lawns, big lots, big houses. And yet, being super dense doesn't at all correlate with having affordable housing. 

Until you have people say "enough," stop paying and just leave, all the damn density in the world won't produce anything affordable. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on May 04, 2023, 09:51:12 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 04, 2023, 06:57:08 PM

You can't just say people who can't afford to live there shouldn't live there.  Those places NEED the lower class to serve the upper class. 
You can't have a park-n-ride for the custodial staff of the Gucci store halfway to Sacramento. 
.
I find the conversation a waste of time because greed isn't ending anytime soon.  I'm just flabbergasted that in times when the poor can't afford affordable housing, the only new construction is "luxury" this and that.  It's fucking idiotic.

You are making my point over and over. Of course they NEED people to serve them. Hence they have more power all along, they just can’t grasp it. The govt artificially increases the cost of living, then subsides that same cost of living through artificial rent control schemes, public housing, AH, etc. It lets the very people who need and can afford to pay them off the hook. The same people who dodge taxes with tax reinvestment zones, govt funded projects, the whole bureaucratic entanglement. And it only gets worse. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on May 04, 2023, 09:55:33 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 04, 2023, 09:44:21 PM

So this is interesting and I agree with most of it, but I honestly still don't think it fixes the affordability problem.

It might help. At the moment more than a few cities out that way are throwing up apartments like the world is ending. It's gonna be like putting paper towels on a bullet wound, but it's something.

But the issue is still demand, demand, demand.

SF might have spent all that time fighting against more density. And yet, SF is very, very, very dense. It is not lacking for density. It is not a city of big lawns, big lots, big houses. And yet, being super dense doesn't at all correlate with having affordable housing.

Until you have people say "enough," stop paying and just leave, all the damn density in the world won't produce anything affordable.

But they won’t leave because they’re housing is being subsidized by one program or another. Thus they live in a state of stasis. They neither gain anything, nor lose. Arguably the longer they stay the more they lose, because the best solution is always to find the best opportunity for their future in an area that has a low cost of living and better (col adjusted) wages. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on May 04, 2023, 09:57:02 PM

Btw, I’m not so naive to think it’s simple as that. I know it’s complex, like all modern issues. But I would suggest that it’s at least a very major contributing factor. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 04, 2023, 10:09:31 PM

Quote from: Gigem on May 04, 2023, 09:55:33 PM

But they won’t leave because they’re housing is being subsidized by one program or another. Thus they live in a state of stasis. They neither gain anything, nor lose. Arguably the longer they stay the more they lose, because the best solution is always to find the best opportunity for their future in an area that has a low cost of living and better (col adjusted) wages.

This is simply not the case. At all. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on May 04, 2023, 10:42:42 PM

I understand there are a lot of factors. Life is complicated. What I should have said is that the programs are a major reason why people won’t leave. 

I’m all for doing what is best for the overall population. I’m not totally against social programs and socialism. FFS, socialism is and will be a major cornerstone of the identity of the United States since at least the 1930’s. Hell, I think we practically invented most of the major ideas and functions of a lot of modern socialistic countries. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 05, 2023, 12:02:01 AM

Quote from: Gigem on May 04, 2023, 10:42:42 PM

I understand there are a lot of factors. Life is complicated. What I should have said is that the programs are a major reason why people won’t leave.

This “program” thing feels like stretching to attach something one believes to fully explain something very odd and specific. 

I promise you, rent control isn’t benefiting all that many people in a big way, and it’s probably not keeping many from brighter prospects elsewhere. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on May 05, 2023, 07:02:06 AM

The main point is that I’m trying, and failing, to make is that the free market is not allowed to work in a natural fashion, and the more govt programs the worse it gets. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 05, 2023, 07:56:37 AM

NIMBY

Hundreds turn out to speak against apartments; meeting canceled | News | yoursun.com (https://www.yoursun.com/englewood/news/hundreds-turn-out-to-speak-against-apartments-meeting-canceled/article_eac380e4-eac6-11ed-ae70-7f1c88af7981.html?utm_source=email&utm_campaign=%2Fnewsletter%2Foptimize%2Fdaily-headlines%2Fcharlotte%2F%3F-dc%3D1683279017&utm_medium=email&utm_content=headline)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 05, 2023, 08:46:32 AM

https://winshipcancer.emory.edu/about-us/index.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 05, 2023, 09:09:46 AM

Quote from: Gigem on May 05, 2023, 07:02:06 AM

The main point is that I’m trying, and failing, to make is that the free market is not allowed to work in a natural fashion, and the more govt programs the worse it gets.

But how do you know how good/bad it would be otherwise?  I doubt the government is doing such things in Fresno or Bakersfield, right?  
You're proposing they not make an effort, not be proactive to assist a problem in a high-population/low land area place.  You think their absence would be better, but how do you know?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on May 05, 2023, 09:37:40 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 04, 2023, 09:31:17 PM

Of course...and I hope they make all the money they want....but it's not something needed, which makes it less likely to succeed.

I don't know if it is likely to succeed or not. My point is that if there is no profit in affordable housing, it won't get built. Since the price point is so high to build, only luxury homes make any sense to build.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 05, 2023, 09:39:42 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 04, 2023, 09:44:21 PM

So this is interesting and I agree with most of it, but I honestly still don't think it fixes the affordability problem.

It might help. At the moment more than a few cities out that way are throwing up apartments like the world is ending. It's gonna be like putting paper towels on a bullet wound, but it's something.

But the issue is still demand, demand, demand.

SF might have spent all that time fighting against more density. And yet, SF is very, very, very dense. It is not lacking for density. It is not a city of big lawns, big lots, big houses. And yet, being super dense doesn't at all correlate with having affordable housing.

Until you have people say "enough," stop paying and just leave, all the damn density in the world won't produce anything affordable.

Again, I think of this as being the entire Bay Area, and SF is only one bit of it. 

SF is naturally small physically. I.e. if you look at this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population_density

San Francisco proper is the second most dense city to New York City, at about 2/3 of the density per square mile. But NYC houses 8M people while SF houses 800K because NYC is physically larger. So you have a completely different order of magnitude in scale between the two. 

Where it gets REALLY interesting is if you filter and sort that list of the top 125 incorporated areas based upon metropolitan area. 

The New York City Metropolitan area has another 56 incorporated cities on that list which house an additional 2.3M people. 

The San Francisco Metropolitan area has another 5 incorporated cities on this list which house an additional 295K people. That's Daly City, San Pablo, East Palo Alto, Berkeley and Albany. Again, that's another order of magnitude. And the highest on that list is 49th in density. 23 of the NYC metro areas are above 49th on the list and are about 1.1M of the 2.3M from that NYC metro. 

So yes, San Francisco is expensive, and relatively dense. Even if it reached NYC's density, the population would only go from about 800K to about 1.2M. So it would still be expensive. But if the entire Bay Area, including extending down the peninsula and across the Bay, was a little more like the NYC metro area, the ENTIRE Bay Area would still have high demand but the affordability point would be much more accessible than it is today. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 05, 2023, 09:43:50 AM

San Fran was VERY expensive 30 years ago

probably long before then

probably will be very expensive 50 years from now

unless there's a major earthquake or some other climate change disaster

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 05, 2023, 09:55:44 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 05, 2023, 09:09:46 AM

But how do you know how good/bad it would be otherwise?  I doubt the government is doing such things in Fresno or Bakersfield, right? 
You're proposing they not make an effort, not be proactive to assist a problem in a high-population/low land area place.  You think their absence would be better, but how do you know?

https://www.latimes.com/homeless-housing/story/2021-03-31/fresno-rent-spike-taps-into-california-covid-housing-trends

Quote

Local politicians and housing advocates say the situation is the result of gaps and failures in the city’s housing market that have built up over decades and have yet to be reformed after the mortgage foreclosure crisis nearly 15 years ago.

Construction of homes in Fresno nearly screeched to a halt after the Great Recession and remains stalled, even though, before the pandemic, the region was growing faster than others in the state, fueled in part by a booming healthcare sector (https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article143470424.html). The average home value in Fresno is now nearly $300,000, according to real estate firm Zillow, having risen almost as fast as rents over the last four years.

The result is that rental housing for tenants at all income levels is in extremely short supply, with available apartments at record lows, according to data from real estate firm CoStar. And the ability to charge higher rents has increased speculation from investors looking to squeeze returns from newly purchased older properties.

For as long as she can remember, former Mayor Ashley Swearengin said, Fresno’s political leaders had been lulled into believing that as long as a small cadre of developers was building single-family-home subdivisions on the city’s fringes, the housing situation was fine.

“We had been engaged in this ‘cotton candy’ kind of economy, that swinging a hammer and building on our periphery was meeting our needs,” said Swearengin, who is now president and chief executive of the Central Valley Community Foundation. “The Great Recession was a wake-up call that it wasn’t. It was glaringly obvious that we were bringing the wrong tools to this issue, and we needed to change.”

https://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2018/02/19/new-river-city-transform-california/ideas/connecting-california/

Quote

Transforming greater Fresno also would require collaboration between local governments that have spent decades using lawsuits to stall the growth of their neighbors. Madera County’s development has only recently gone forward after fights so bitter that the governor’s office intervened.

Indeed, the very structure of California, and its land-use planning, works against turning Fresno into a region, never mind a powerhouse. In our state, local jurisdictions are weak and have little power to raise their own revenues; they are incentivized to compete with other cities, often using questionable subsidies, in the chase for developments and the taxes they bring. In the Golden State, cooperating with neighboring municipalities is for saps.

The battles between the San Joaquin Valley’s cities have been especially hard-fought, since those municipalities are weak even by California’s diminished standards. (Madera County doesn’t even have a parks department.) The game is: support development that provides revenue for your city, while spreading the costs—in traffic, water and air quality—onto your neighbors.

That has inspired nearly constant litigation. To take just two examples: The city of Fresno sued Madera County to block the new river development plan until it got a tax-sharing agreement that would compensate it for impacts like traffic. In retaliation, Madera County sued Fresno to block a new shopping center, claiming it would siphon off shopping dollars and sales taxes that should go to Madera.

So those are two examples, with very different root causes IMHO, of how gov't policies are causing situations where proper housing wasn't being built. One because local gov't was focused on supporting the type of development that didn't actually meet the needs of its residents (SFH on the city's periphery), and another based upon a structural issue with gov't that caused cities within a unified region to fight against their neighbor's development, which had the effect of chilling development across the whole region. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 05, 2023, 10:20:56 AM

SF and its surrounding areas being so expensive caused Seattle to happen. It got more expensive, although values in the city proper are coming down.

Belleview seems to be doing OK, but not great, with values. My wife lived there for 3-4 years. Nice area.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 05, 2023, 10:52:54 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 05, 2023, 10:20:56 AM

SF and its surrounding areas being so expensive caused Seattle to happen. It got more expensive, although values in the city proper are coming down.

Belleview seems to be doing OK, but not great, with values. My wife lived there for 3-4 years. Nice area.

Not entirely. I think a lot of Seattle as it is today can be tied to Microsoft IMHO. (Obviously Boeing is huge as well.) Gates was from Seattle originally, and Silicon Valley was there but not quite the craziness it is today. So I think wanting to be near home was more important to Gates than avoiding SF/Bay Area. 

Then Bezos saw that there was a lot of tech talent in Seattle (due to Microsoft), and because then he could sell to California, the state with the largest population in the country, w/o those buyers having to pay sales taxes giving him a competitive advantage over any firms based in CA (which has now changed of course). 

When you have two titans of an industry like this in one geographic area, eventually people leave those companies but don't want to leave Seattle, so it becomes a great place to set up OTHER tech companies in the area because there is a pool of talent to hire, and it becomes a bit of a mini-Silicon Valley. The same thing of course happened in Austin due to Dell. Now there are a lot of other tech companies in the area staffed by former Dell employees who wanted to do something different but didn't want to leave Austin. 

There are obviously big non-tech employers in the Seattle (aforementioned Boeing of course), but I think what drove Seattle from probably the 1990s to today was the combination of Microsoft and Amazon, and then all the tech industry that built up around Seattle because of the network effects those two titans generate. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 05, 2023, 11:01:49 AM

My wife told me that half the people she knew in school moved from California. She was one of them. I believe her.

She was there from 1972 through 1976. Before Gates and well before Bezos and Costco, obviously. 

Boeing was there, of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 05, 2023, 11:55:33 AM

4 years in about all most folks can take of Seattle

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 05, 2023, 01:03:21 PM

We used to visit Seattle every-other-year for the longest time. It is different now, for sure.

There was a time we actually considered moving there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on May 05, 2023, 01:23:50 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 05, 2023, 09:09:46 AM

But how do you know how good/bad it would be otherwise?  I doubt the government is doing such things in Fresno or Bakersfield, right? 
You're proposing they not make an effort, not be proactive to assist a problem in a high-population/low land area place.  You think their absence would be better, but how do you know?

I just usually believe that the free market can do a better job than the government can.  Again, if demand is high, and supply is low, the price will always be high no matter what the government does.  So you either need to drop demand, or increase supply.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 05, 2023, 01:30:14 PM

government meddling usually has good intentions

also usually has not so good results

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 05, 2023, 01:57:08 PM

Quote from: Gigem on May 05, 2023, 01:23:50 PM

I just usually believe that the free market can do a better job than the government can.  Again, if demand is high, and supply is low, the price will always be high no matter what the government does.  So you either need to drop demand, or increase supply. 

"The free market" works for the majority, for the middle bulk of the bell curve.
It breaks down at both extremes.
SF is an outlier.
The free market breaks down and doesn't work for this situation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 05, 2023, 02:12:42 PM

So give us some solutions. Even one maybe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 05, 2023, 02:29:25 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 05, 2023, 01:57:08 PM

"The free market" works for the majority, for the middle bulk of the bell curve.
It breaks down at both extremes.
SF is an outlier.
The free market breaks down and doesn't work for this situation.

But as I pointed out, "the free market" has absolutely NOT been allowed to work in SF. 

If I use gov't to make it illegal for you to buy food, it's not going to be "the free market's" fault that you starve to death. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 05, 2023, 02:30:20 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 05, 2023, 09:39:42 AM

Again, I think of this as being the entire Bay Area, and SF is only one bit of it.

SF is naturally small physically. I.e. if you look at this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population_density

San Francisco proper is the second most dense city to New York City, at about 2/3 of the density per square mile. But NYC houses 8M people while SF houses 800K because NYC is physically larger. So you have a completely different order of magnitude in scale between the two.

Where it gets REALLY interesting is if you filter and sort that list of the top 125 incorporated areas based upon metropolitan area.

The New York City Metropolitan area has another 56 incorporated cities on that list which house an additional 2.3M people.

The San Francisco Metropolitan area has another 5 incorporated cities on this list which house an additional 295K people. That's Daly City, San Pablo, East Palo Alto, Berkeley and Albany. Again, that's another order of magnitude. And the highest on that list is 49th in density. 23 of the NYC metro areas are above 49th on the list and are about 1.1M of the 2.3M from that NYC metro.

So yes, San Francisco is expensive, and relatively dense. Even if it reached NYC's density, the population would only go from about 800K to about 1.2M. So it would still be expensive. But if the entire Bay Area, including extending down the peninsula and across the Bay, was a little more like the NYC metro area, the ENTIRE Bay Area would still have high demand but the affordability point would be much more accessible than it is today.

I think this cuts to the crux of the issue.

This started with the issue that SF artificially lowered its density from being in competition for the most dense major city to just being the second-most dense by a healthy margin.

But in truth, being that dense hasn't been a slave. So now we're moving out, saying "If only San Jose or Oakland were more dense, THAT'S the magic bullet," as if being like NYC isn't both a rarity and a massive undertaking/accident of history. And our comparison point is ... the NYC metro, where affordable housing is also a nightmare. 

I'm not saying you're wrong that more housing should in theory lower that price point. You're right. But when it all works out, density on its own doesn't seem to correlate with affordable housing, and it's worth keeping that in mind when we want start imagining semi-unfeasible things like getting Santa Rosa to be more like Queens. It's all a great theory, but the same kind of market theory holds that forces shouldn't produce real estate prices like this to begin with. 

(I also wonder about what I'd call untapped demand. I remember reading The Power Broker, in part about the development of NYC. And they ran into an issue of early traffic problems. The answer, much like our density think, is to build more roads, bridges and tunnels. And it turned out that every new pathway they built gave more folks the bright idea to drive, so each bridge in turn was overwhelmed and we have the joy of modern NYC traffic. Whatever bubble is out there isn't deterred by paying $1,300 per square foot)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 05, 2023, 02:30:58 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 05, 2023, 01:57:08 PM

"The free market" works for the majority, for the middle bulk of the bell curve.
It breaks down at both extremes.
SF is an outlier.
The free market breaks down and doesn't work for this situation.

This is not really true. 

The free market doesn't have rules about who it benefits, it only bends toward efficiency. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 05, 2023, 03:01:52 PM

Apparently AOC and Gaetz are co-sponsoring a bill to end this.  I can't think of a better definition of wide spread support.  Between her and Clarence Thomas, any thought that government isn't bought and paid for is laughable

https://twitter.com/unusual_whales/status/1654174927124037645?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 05, 2023, 03:23:09 PM

Quote from: ELA on May 05, 2023, 03:01:52 PM

Apparently AOC and Gaetz are co-sponsoring a bill to end this.  I can't think of a better definition of wide spread support.  Between her and Clarence Thomas, any thought that government isn't bought and paid for is laughable

you lost me

whats the problem with CT other then hes conservative

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 05, 2023, 03:24:49 PM

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/new-revelations-add-clarence-thomas-intensifying-ethics-scandal-rcna83023 (https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/new-revelations-add-clarence-thomas-intensifying-ethics-scandal-rcna83023)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 05, 2023, 04:17:23 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 05, 2023, 03:24:49 PM

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/new-revelations-add-clarence-thomas-intensifying-ethics-scandal-rcna83023 (https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/new-revelations-add-clarence-thomas-intensifying-ethics-scandal-rcna83023)

Ewww to that sourcing 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 05, 2023, 04:17:51 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 05, 2023, 03:24:49 PM

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/new-revelations-add-clarence-thomas-intensifying-ethics-scandal-rcna83023 (https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/new-revelations-add-clarence-thomas-intensifying-ethics-scandal-rcna83023)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2iz8IE3uFc

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 05, 2023, 04:45:48 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 05, 2023, 04:17:51 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2iz8IE3uFc

That's nice. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on May 05, 2023, 05:02:14 PM

We all agree that housing in SF and other metropolitan areas is expensive.  I have never lived in any of the large metro areas (I did live in Santa Clara, California for a month 20 years ago when I worked for AMAT ) so help me to understand.  

What is the average wages of the service folk there?  Are they making minimum wage, and why would they continue to accept that kind of pay when clearly there is no housing there for them?  New hires at Buc-Ees here make $12-15 per hour.  I pay a kid $15 per hour barely 18.  You'd have to make $25-30 per hour, maybe more, just to be able to afford a ghetto place in SF and similar places.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 05, 2023, 05:05:34 PM

Nothing personal but I gotta say I prefer Clarence Carter over Clarence Thomas:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7gMkiOPSeA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 05, 2023, 05:27:49 PM

Quote from: utee94 on May 05, 2023, 05:05:34 PM

Nothing personal but I gotta say I prefer Clarence Carter over Clarence Thomas:

You have clearly been hanging around Fearless too much

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 05, 2023, 05:37:17 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 05, 2023, 02:30:20 PM

I think this cuts to the crux of the issue.

This started with the issue that SF artificially lowered its density from being in competition for the most dense major city to just being the second-most dense by a healthy margin.

But in truth, being that dense hasn't been a slave. So now we're moving out, saying "If only San Jose or Oakland were more dense, THAT'S the magic bullet," as if being like NYC isn't both a rarity and a massive undertaking/accident of history. And our comparison point is ... the NYC metro, where affordable housing is also a nightmare.

I'm not saying you're wrong that more housing should in theory lower that price point. You're right. But when it all works out, density on its own doesn't seem to correlate with affordable housing, and it's worth keeping that in mind when we want start imagining semi-unfeasible things like getting Santa Rosa to be more like Queens. It's all a great theory, but the same kind of market theory holds that forces shouldn't produce real estate prices like this to begin with.

(I also wonder about what I'd call untapped demand. I remember reading The Power Broker, in part about the development of NYC. And they ran into an issue of early traffic problems. The answer, much like our density think, is to build more roads, bridges and tunnels. And it turned out that every new pathway they built gave more folks the bright idea to drive, so each bridge in turn was overwhelmed and we have the joy of modern NYC traffic. Whatever bubble is out there isn't deterred by paying $1,300 per square foot)

Yeah, and I didn't intend to unfairly single out SF. I find it to be one of the more egregious when it comes to fighting density, but my overarching point was that EVERYWHERE fights density. The NYC metro mostly was built before anyone figured out to fight it, but the rest of the nation didn't. 

There are also confounding variables here. One of the things that density does is attract more people, via network effects. Metro areas have more jobs--and more ability to change jobs within your industry--than rural areas where one employer might be dominant. Metro areas have more cultural enrichment available, more variety of restaurants, more opportunities for activities, etc, because of the higher density. If you've got a passion for underwater basket-weaving, it's a lot more likely that you'll find fellow underwater basket-weaving enthusiasts in a metro area than in an rural area. 

That's a natural phenomenon. Why did Silicon Valley become such a hotbed of tech? Because back in the 70s and 80s, it was the up and coming tech location. And then it attracted tech people from all over the country, so it became even more of a hotbed of tech. It was a positive feedback loop due to the network effects. 

So cities are naturally going to be more expensive than rural areas. Because more people want to live there, and it seems that the bigger they get, the MORE that people want to live there. That will naturally make cities expensive. 

But density will at the very least help. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 05, 2023, 06:17:35 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 05, 2023, 03:23:09 PM

you lost me

whats the problem with CT other then hes conservative

He is equally bought and paid for

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 05, 2023, 08:03:10 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 05, 2023, 02:30:58 PM

This is not really true.

The free market doesn't have rules about who it benefits, it only bends toward efficiency.

On a long-enough timeline, a free market yields one monopoly owning everything.  There's your efficiency.
Even my most staunch naysayer knows that's a bad thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 05, 2023, 08:05:49 PM

Quote from: Gigem on May 05, 2023, 05:02:14 PM

We all agree that housing in SF and other metropolitan areas is expensive.  I have never lived in any of the large metro areas (I did live in Santa Clara, California for a month 20 years ago when I worked for AMAT ) so help me to understand. 

What is the average wages of the service folk there?  Are they making minimum wage, and why would they continue to accept that kind of pay when clearly there is no housing there for them?  New hires at Buc-Ees here make $12-15 per hour.  I pay a kid $15 per hour barely 18.  You'd have to make $25-30 per hour, maybe more, just to be able to afford a ghetto place in SF and similar places. 

Because they don't have options!
All they have is their day-to-day.  They can't afford to take a day off to seek other employment.  They can't afford to take a day off to seek cheaper housing further away.  They can't afford to travel to work from further away.  

This is akin to asking why the starving people in Somalia don't just move to where the food is.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 06, 2023, 12:01:35 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 05, 2023, 05:37:17 PM

Yeah, and I didn't intend to unfairly single out SF. I find it to be one of the more egregious when it comes to fighting density, but my overarching point was that EVERYWHERE fights density. The NYC metro mostly was built before anyone figured out to fight it, but the rest of the nation didn't.

There are also confounding variables here. One of the things that density does is attract more people, via network effects. Metro areas have more jobs--and more ability to change jobs within your industry--than rural areas where one employer might be dominant. Metro areas have more cultural enrichment available, more variety of restaurants, more opportunities for activities, etc, because of the higher density. If you've got a passion for underwater basket-weaving, it's a lot more likely that you'll find fellow underwater basket-weaving enthusiasts in a metro area than in an rural area.

That's a natural phenomenon. Why did Silicon Valley become such a hotbed of tech? Because back in the 70s and 80s, it was the up and coming tech location. And then it attracted tech people from all over the country, so it became even more of a hotbed of tech. It was a positive feedback loop due to the network effects.

So cities are naturally going to be more expensive than rural areas. Because more people want to live there, and it seems that the bigger they get, the MORE that people want to live there. That will naturally make cities expensive.

But density will at the very least help.

This feels right.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 06, 2023, 12:08:57 AM

Quote from: Gigem on May 05, 2023, 05:02:14 PM

We all agree that housing in SF and other metropolitan areas is expensive.  I have never lived in any of the large metro areas (I did live in Santa Clara, California for a month 20 years ago when I worked for AMAT ) so help me to understand. 

What is the average wages of the service folk there?  Are they making minimum wage, and why would they continue to accept that kind of pay when clearly there is no housing there for them?  New hires at Buc-Ees here make $12-15 per hour.  I pay a kid $15 per hour barely 18.  You'd have to make $25-30 per hour, maybe more, just to be able to afford a ghetto place in SF and similar places. 

Higher than a lot of places, but not that high. People have an amazing ability to grind out situations. You live on couches, stay with relatives in cramped places that are kinda terrible. 

I had a friend who about a decade ago paid $1,000 a month to live in one bedroom of a five bedroom with minimal common space over a Chinese doughnut shop. That was a good deal in a recently semi-gentrified neighborhood. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2023, 12:39:36 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 06, 2023, 12:08:57 AM

Higher than a lot of places, but not that high. People have an amazing ability to grind out situations. You live on couches, stay with relatives in cramped places that are kinda terrible.

Yes, and this ability will forever be exploited.
.
I was perusing the FB marketplace housing ads in Phoenix a few minutes ago.  People are renting out bedrooms for $600-900/month, almost none of which have a private bathroom.  Hell, there's one where they were renting out a shared bedroom for $350/mo.  Yes, share a bed with a random person and share a room.

That's the "amazing ability" taking place today.  
When people are paid so poorly and housing costs are this high, we're willing to be like rats on a ship. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 06, 2023, 01:30:11 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 05, 2023, 08:03:10 PM

On a long-enough timeline, a free market yields one monopoly owning everything. 

Prove it. And show your work.

Note: the movie WALL-E is not admissible as evidence. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 06, 2023, 07:51:02 AM

In 1969 Queen Elizabeth II became the first British monarch to travel on the Tube, and has remained the only one to ride ever since.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 06, 2023, 08:06:00 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 06, 2023, 01:30:11 AM

Prove it. And show your work.

Note: the movie WALL-E is not admissible as evidence.

That really is a very good movie

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 06, 2023, 10:48:28 AM

Anyone paying attention to this coronation stuff going on in the UK?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 06, 2023, 10:49:33 AM

nope

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 06, 2023, 11:30:36 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 06, 2023, 10:48:28 AM

Anyone paying attention to this coronation stuff going on in the UK?

Id rather watch paint drt

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on May 06, 2023, 02:52:37 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 05, 2023, 08:03:10 PM

On a long-enough timeline, a free market yields one monopoly owning everything.  There's your efficiency.
Even my most staunch naysayer knows that's a bad thing.

Monopolies always have been and will be issues in the free market. But, given enough time and bureaucratic bloat and in fighting, in the long term monopolies self destruct. Rail roads, telecoms, search engines. Hell, isn’t the govt a monopoly ?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2023, 03:42:25 PM

Quote from: Gigem on May 06, 2023, 02:52:37 PM

Monopolies always have been and will be issues in the free market. But, given enough time and bureaucratic bloat and in fighting, in the long term monopolies self destruct. Rail roads, telecoms, search engines. Hell, isn’t the govt a monopoly ? 

I guess we should try out city-states!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2023, 03:46:37 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 06, 2023, 01:30:11 AM

Prove it. And show your work.

Note: the movie WALL-E is not admissible as evidence.

Graph the number of companies earning the top 90% of any industry's wealth from any length of time in the past to now.  The further back you go, there are multitudes more.
Hell, go to a grocery store in 1985 and today.  Go to the chip aisle.  At first glace, it looks like the same number of chip bags, maybe even similar variety of chip types.  In 1985, a couple of dozen companies made those chips.  Today, maybe 3 do.  

Fighting me on this is silly.  It's a fact.  Sorry if it's not happening fast enough for you.  You sound like someone wary of evolution because a monkey doesn't turn into a human before your very eyes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2023, 03:50:20 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 06, 2023, 10:48:28 AM

Anyone paying attention to this coronation stuff going on in the UK?

One of my cousins is obsessed with it.  Her and her husband woke up early and made a bunch of English food to watch.  My uncle was in the USAFA and they were stationed in England when she was young.
I'll never understand having a royal family with no actual power. 
.
And we think our gov't wastes tax dollars.......

(https://i.imgur.com/n9fE2vd.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 06, 2023, 05:41:29 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2023, 03:46:37 PM

Graph the number of companies earning the top 90% of any industry's wealth from any length of time in the past to now.  The further back you go, there are multitudes more.
Hell, go to a grocery store in 1985 and today.  Go to the chip aisle.  At first glace, it looks like the same number of chip bags, maybe even similar variety of chip types.  In 1985, a couple of dozen companies made those chips.  Today, maybe 3 do. 

Fighting me on this is silly.  It's a fact.  Sorry if it's not happening fast enough for you.  You sound like someone wary of evolution because a monkey doesn't turn into a human before your very eyes.

You sound like a monkey compared to him. As usual/ you aren’t just wrong- you are 180 degrees from reality. 
I just came from the grocery store and was noticing so many new start up companies having success in the chip aisle. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 06, 2023, 06:10:19 PM

I like tater chips

pair well with Bud Fat!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 06, 2023, 06:30:43 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 06, 2023, 06:10:19 PM

I like tater chips

pair well with Bud Fat!

reminds me of this


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pz2kXoDo_s

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 06, 2023, 06:48:00 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 06, 2023, 06:30:43 PM

reminds me of this


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pz2kXoDo_s

Classic movie- classic Scene!!!   

Hmmm-hhh.  Biscuits n mustard.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 06, 2023, 07:14:45 PM

seems odd

musta had to be there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 07, 2023, 04:17:12 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 06, 2023, 05:41:29 PM

You sound like a monkey compared to him. As usual/ you aren’t just wrong- you are 180 degrees from reality. 
I just came from the grocery store and was noticing so many new start up companies having success in the chip aisle. 

We simply don't share the same reality.
Go back to the same store in 10 years and you'll see all-new start ups looking successful, while the big corporations will own more of the total market.
.
I'm going to say it's not stupidity, so it's got to be willful ignorance.  Why are you guys such fanboys of the biggest corporations?  They fuck over the "little guy" endlessly.  You probably lament the end of small-town America in one breath and buy more stock in Walmart with your next.
.
<slow clap>

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 07, 2023, 06:59:50 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 06, 2023, 06:10:19 PM

I like tater chips

pair well with Bud Fat!

You'll need something along these lines, in order to achieve that particular wine pairing. 


(https://newenglandcountrymart.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/SaltieGirlChipsSeaSalt.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2023, 08:22:40 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 06, 2023, 05:41:29 PM

I just came from the grocery store and was noticing so many new start up companies having success in the chip aisle. 

Same. Up North there are even more choices, but we're catching up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 07, 2023, 09:30:55 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 07, 2023, 04:17:12 AM

We simply don't share the same reality.
Go back to the same store in 10 years and you'll see all-new start ups looking successful, while the big corporations will own more of the total market.
.
I'm going to say it's not stupidity, so it's got to be willful ignorance.  Why are you guys such fanboys of the biggest corporations?  They fuck over the "little guy" endlessly.  You probably lament the end of small-town America in one breath and buy more stock in Walmart with your next.
.
<slow clap>

2000: Frito Lay (the largest producer) held 68% market share in the US chip market:


(https://i.imgur.com/pCnGZ1j.png)

2020: Frito Lay's market share had dropped to just under 60%:

(https://i.imgur.com/njp0dFQ.png)

"Private label" as a category gained 1.2% share. Cape Cod grew from 1.4% to 3.8%, at almost 10x revenue growth in 20 years. Utz gained 1% share. Kettle wasn't even on the list in 2000 and grew to almost 3% share.

Admittedly, some of these brands (such as Kettle) are subsidiaries of larger companies (Campbell soup in that case). But they were acquired as brands BECAUSE they were successful. 

In your view of history Frito Lay just owns everything, but they've spent the last 20 years losing market share.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 07, 2023, 09:37:21 AM

(https://images.albertsons-media.com/is/image/ABS/970046077-A1C1?$ng-ecom-pdp-mobile$&defaultImage=Not_Available)

my favorite

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2023, 09:43:43 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/wX15hFC.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on May 07, 2023, 11:02:39 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 05, 2023, 08:05:49 PM

Because they don't have options!
All they have is their day-to-day.  They can't afford to take a day off to seek other employment.  They can't afford to take a day off to seek cheaper housing further away.  They can't afford to travel to work from further away. 

This is akin to asking why the starving people in Somalia don't just move to where the food is. 

This my friend is complete and utter bull honky. Because 200+ years ago my ancestors, probably your ancestors and everybody else on this board ancestors, got on a boat with little to nothing, sailed for months to a land they knew nothing about, maybe even a land where they didn’t even speak the language all because they were seeking a better life. 

The people you are saying don’t have time to move to a new place are like millionaires compared to our ancestors. They have unlimited knowledge, or at least access to knowledge on their person 24 hours a day. They have electricity, at least some form of mobility whether it is public transportation, cabs, cars, whatever. They have freedom, the ability to go where they want, pursue what they want. It’s not like India where your born into a caste or what they call it. 

No, they continue to live in these places because they want to, but it seems that a lot have finally had enough and they’re getting out, moving to places that have better wages, more opportunities, and more affordable housing. The rest mostly sit around and complain about high cost of living, low wages, same song and dance.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 07, 2023, 04:39:01 PM

Our ancestors were the same color as the people already here and thriving.  Sure, they were spat on, but if they shut up and worked hard, they could blend in.
Kind of a big difference there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 07, 2023, 05:57:16 PM

Being efficient and developing a skill on your own rests with every individual. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 07, 2023, 06:05:53 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 06, 2023, 06:10:19 PM

I like tater chips

pair well with Bud Fat!

Well you made his argument only he had the wrong enterprise not chips but look at the beer market not only corporations but conglomerates. Bud/.Miller,,,Molsons/Labatt use to compete directly hell one of those is made at Coors Plant.Now,what are there two big players?INBEV and I'll die a happy man if I can remeber the other one.Congrats you made me agree with Orange Gator Guy - I guess it really is the end times. Now back to your regularly scheduled 4 putt

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 07, 2023, 06:23:38 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 07, 2023, 04:17:12 AM

Why are you guys such fanboys of the biggest corporations?  They fuck over the "little guy" endlessly.  You probably lament the end of small-town America in one breath and buy more stock in Walmart with your next.
.
<slow clap>

You're making more ignorant sweeping generalizations than anyone not on the house floor. Not many here work for the 1%ers. And of course they have manipulated markets and have bought the politicians and if you think pelosi and brandon and his handlers aren't amongst them you picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue. Perhaps even Red China who has bought up a sizeable amount of farm land and meat processing.How has that worked out,never mind you wouldn't admit it anyway.

How about the Dems and the Reps that dumped their investments before the housing market crashed in'08 and again in Jan 2020 when Covid was breaking news - nothing was done to either side of the political isle - nothing. Both Finestein and Pelosi and the rest of the rickety unhinged half wits that fell inline behind them should ALL be in the bighouse - with the sodomites,no cushy preferential digs. But both still slurp and belch on the house floor as everyone watches this charade play out and does nothing. The Supreme Court and the FBI has leaned about as far left as even they thought possible. We ain't in Kansas anymore

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 07, 2023, 06:47:05 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on May 07, 2023, 06:05:53 PM

Well you made his argument only he had the wrong enterprise not chips but look at the beer market not only corporations but conglomerates. Bud/.Miller,,,Molsons/Labatt use to compete directly hell one of those is made at Coors Plant.Now,what are there two big players?INBEV and I'll die a happy man if I can remeber the other one.Congrats you made me agree with Orange Gator Guy - I guess it really is the end times. Now back to your regularly scheduled 4 putt

Well don't worry, the only thing you have in common with OAM is picking a HORRIBLE example to use for consolidation of an industry. 

Craft/import 1970-2012:


(https://i.imgur.com/h58qUvC.png)

And then to compare 2012-2022 since I couldn't find them on a single graph:


(https://i.imgur.com/VehAH7Y.png)

ABInbev and SABMillerCoors might be trying to consolidate... But they're losing drinkers. 

Hell, Constellation Brands (owner of Modelo) tried to make a big splash maybe a decade ago buying Ballast Point for a cool $1B. Failed to do anything with it, and sold them recently to some Chicago company nobody had even heard of until they bought it. 

Heck, how smart is AB? They wanted to tap into the seltzer market, so they created Bud Light Seltzer. Seltzer drinkers don't drink it because it's Bud Light, and Bud Light drinkers won't drink it because it's not beer. (Admittedly, neither is Bud Light IMHO...)

In 1978 (when homebrewing was legalized) there were 89 breweries in the US. There are now 150 craft breweries in San Diego County, and in 2022 there were close to 10,000 nationwide. 

Things are getting BETTER, not worse, in the beer industry. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 07, 2023, 08:29:13 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 07, 2023, 06:47:05 PM

Well don't worry, the only thing you have in common with OAM is picking a HORRIBLE example to use for consolidation of an industry.

Craft/import 1970-2012:


(https://i.imgur.com/h58qUvC.png)

And then to compare 2012-2022 since I couldn't find them on a single graph:


(https://i.imgur.com/VehAH7Y.png)

ABInbev and SABMillerCoors might be trying to consolidate... But they're losing drinkers.

Hell, Constellation Brands (owner of Modelo) tried to make a big splash maybe a decade ago buying Ballast Point for a cool $1B. Failed to do anything with it, and sold them recently to some Chicago company nobody had even heard of until they bought it.

Heck, how smart is AB? They wanted to tap into the seltzer market, so they created Bud Light Seltzer. Seltzer drinkers don't drink it because it's Bud Light, and Bud Light drinkers won't drink it because it's not beer. (Admittedly, neither is Bud Light IMHO...)

In 1978 (when homebrewing was legalized) there were 89 breweries in the US. There are now 150 craft breweries in San Diego County, and in 2022 there were close to 10,000 nationwide.

Things are getting BETTER, not worse, in the beer industry.

Amen, brutha.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 07, 2023, 10:19:32 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on May 07, 2023, 05:57:16 PM

Being efficient and developing a skill on your own rests with every individual.

Yeah, and a lot of people are born on third base.  No need to pretend you hit a triple to get there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 07, 2023, 10:22:57 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 07, 2023, 06:47:05 PM

Well don't worry, the only thing you have in common with OAM is picking a HORRIBLE example to use for consolidation of an industry.

Craft/import 1970-2012:


(https://i.imgur.com/h58qUvC.png)

And then to compare 2012-2022 since I couldn't find them on a single graph:

You're ignoring the numbers on the y-axis.  Single digits.  Just give it time, the 3-4 major producers will buy up and suppress all of these single-digit, regional upstarts.  It's inevitable. 
.
Check back in 10 years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 07, 2023, 10:24:51 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 07, 2023, 10:19:32 PM

Yeah, and a lot of people are born on third base.  No need to pretend you hit a triple to get there.

no one is pretending

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 07, 2023, 10:29:36 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 07, 2023, 10:24:51 PM

no one is pretending

The post I quoted was a deliberately ignorant suggestion that everyone just has to try hard and everything will work out....which is bullshit.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 08, 2023, 06:58:15 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 07, 2023, 06:47:05 PM

Well don't worry, the only thing you have in common with OAM is picking a HORRIBLE example to use for consolidation of an industry.

Craft/import 1970-2012:

Lost me they still consolidated BIG and  MANY of those imports were swallowed by the other two. Same thing with the Crafts Goose Island in Chicago got bought out by one for instence.It's what they do,some may operate independently but they're still under the umbrella. Crafts undeniably have made for better quaffing however

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 08, 2023, 06:59:27 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 07, 2023, 10:19:32 PM

Yeah, and a lot of people are born on third base.  No need to pretend you hit a triple to get there.

Yes you were went from mom and dads tit to the government's but we're not discussing frauds with silver spoons in their mouths

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 08, 2023, 07:06:11 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 07, 2023, 10:29:36 PM

The post I quoted was a deliberately ignorant suggestion that everyone just has to try hard and everything will work out....which is bullshit. 

lulz mmkay plastering bullshit and accepting it as fact in your land of make believe. So we as individuals aren't responsible for our own devlopment or lack there of? Good to know, I'm beginning to see where the problem is. Almost everyone here came up thru public schools Life never has been or will be fair. And your idea of taking someone else shit and giving it to others will under the false pretense of social justice will never work. Because you got away with it doesn't make it right

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 08, 2023, 08:42:09 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 07, 2023, 10:29:36 PM

The post I quoted was a deliberately ignorant suggestion that everyone just has to try hard and everything will work out....which is bullshit. 

Well, I guess you could sit around, feeling sorry for yourself and blaming the rest of the world for your situation. Let's see how that works out for you. 

Perhaps there are other countries that have it figured out and align more with your line of thinking. I hear that rents are pretty cheap in Cuba. You may want to consider a move there? LOL.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 08, 2023, 09:30:34 AM

A good and solid system of education solves mostly all of this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 08, 2023, 09:32:42 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 07, 2023, 10:22:57 PM

You're ignoring the numbers on the y-axis.  Single digits.  Just give it time, the 3-4 major producers will buy up and suppress all of these single-digit, regional upstarts.  It's inevitable.
.
Check back in 10 years.

Nice of you to not pay attention to the second graph. I'm sure you would have said "check back in 10 years", but the second graph was checking back in 10 years, when craft had grown from single digits to ~25% of the market. 

I've asked you to prove it. And yet the example you gave, potato chips, I showed you how the single dominant player has lost 8% market share in the last 20 years. And the example Nubbz gave, the two dominant US players (formerly three but two of them combined) have spent the last 20 years losing over 20% market share, and not to 100 or 200 competitors that they can just buy up, but to 9,000+. 

Quote from: MrNubbz on May 08, 2023, 06:58:15 AM

Lost me they still consolidated BIG and  MANY of those imports were swallowed by the other two. Same thing with the Crafts Goose Island in Chicago got bought out by one for instence.It's what they do,some may operate independently but they're still under the umbrella. Crafts undeniably have made for better quaffing however

Yeah, and it's a dynamic market. Obviously Goose was acquired by ABInbev, Lagunitas was acquired by Heineken, and more recently Stone was acquired by Sapporo. I mentioned the big acquisition (and then divestiture) of Ballast Point. Some of the craft breweries embarked on a massive expansion trajectory, couldn't financially sustain it, and became targets for acquisition. 

But at the same time, craft has changed the entire culture of beer. There are aspects of it that the big boys can never replicate, and that's the idea that crafts are by definition local. It's the idea that you go to a neighborhood brewery specifically because it's NOT "big beer" and because you can't get it anywhere else. These are properties that the big beer companies have no desire to own, and that the owners have no desire to sell. The big boys know how to sell undifferentiated beer to undiscerning customers, and they're scrambling to try to remain relevant in these new times. Scrambling so much that Bud Light might have just pissed off their core audience because they were trying to reach out to new audiences whose existence angers their core audience. 

The truth about capitalism and the free market is this: you can only survive and grow if you are satisfying customers. If you fail to do that, no matter HOW big you are, you will shrink and eventually disappear. The reason that bigger breweries are trying to buy their way into the craft market is because big beer was failing, not because they were successful. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 08, 2023, 09:44:24 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 08, 2023, 09:32:42 AM

The truth about capitalism and the free market is this: 

For me and almost all of the small business owners I know - and I know a lot of them - there is but one goal in the end.

That goal is to build a company that is strong enough to be A) acquired by a larger company for a large sum or B) acquired by employees at an amount equal to or greater than a nice pension.

I would have preferred A, but I worried about what the larger company might do to the great employees. So I chose B.

Everyone is happy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 08, 2023, 10:08:38 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 08, 2023, 09:32:42 AM

But at the same time, craft has changed the entire culture of beer. There are aspects of it that the big boys can never replicate, and that's the idea that crafts are by definition local. It's the idea that you go to a neighborhood brewery specifically because it's NOT "big beer" and because you can't get it anywhere else. These are properties that the big beer companies have no desire to own, and that the owners have no desire to sell. The big boys know how to sell undifferentiated beer to undiscerning customers, and they're scrambling to try to remain relevant in these new times. Scrambling so much that Bud Light might have just pissed off their core audience because they were trying to reach out to new audiences whose existence angers their core audience.

What happened here? Must have missed it as i do everything else  :015:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on May 08, 2023, 10:16:36 AM

They partnered with some transgender “ IT” in an ad campaign. It did not go well. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 08, 2023, 10:18:33 AM

Yeah, it won't really be productive digging into the details in this thread (I'm sure Area 51 is ALL over it), but they kinda shot themselves in the foot. 

But the relevant part is that the marketing person responsible at AB basically said that the reason it was done was because Bud Light is a dying brand and they needed to reach out to new audiences. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 08, 2023, 10:21:02 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 08, 2023, 09:30:34 AM

A good and solid system of education solves mostly all of this.

That and personal effort studying and due dilligence. Perhaps i just can't admit that I'm responsible for holding down so many that otherwise would have went on to successful carreers in architecture,enginnering,professorship,administration,researcher,cyber security,etc. Never knew i had so much clout,should have went after Congress and the untouchable 1%ers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 08, 2023, 10:22:51 AM

Education reform is such a crucial need right now. Would like to see the Feds get out of that business.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 08, 2023, 10:26:07 AM

Quote from: Gigem on May 08, 2023, 10:16:36 AM

They partnered with some transgender “ IT” in an ad campaign. It did not go well.

I gotta believe the CCP with their new found wealth are behind this. No one believes that shyt or very little of it. Buying off people in position to spout that drivel. I don't buy/believe that in the last 3 years seemingly 1/3 the population became unhinged half wits

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 08, 2023, 10:44:21 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 08, 2023, 10:18:33 AM

Yeah, it won't really be productive digging into the details in this thread (I'm sure Area 51 is ALL over it), but they kinda shot themselves in the foot.

But the relevant part is that the marketing person responsible at AB basically said that the reason it was done was because Bud Light is a dying brand and they needed to reach out to new audiences.

What % of the US population is transgender? According to recent surveys and other efforts its been estimated at about one third of one percent or approx 1 million citizens

If AB actually undertook this move to reach out to new audiences it was a stupid move and not worth the money invested

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on May 08, 2023, 10:49:01 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 06, 2023, 03:46:37 PM

Graph the number of companies earning the top 90% of any industry's wealth from any length of time in the past to now.  The further back you go, there are multitudes more.
Hell, go to a grocery store in 1985 and today.  Go to the chip aisle.  At first glace, it looks like the same number of chip bags, maybe even similar variety of chip types.  In 1985, a couple of dozen companies made those chips.  Today, maybe 3 do. 

Fighting me on this is silly.  It's a fact.  Sorry if it's not happening fast enough for you.  You sound like someone wary of evolution because a monkey doesn't turn into a human before your very eyes.

Typically when the free market tends towards monopolies in particular industry, it is because of entry barriers in the market.  For some it can be material costs, others Labor cost and in this day and age government regulations, taxes, fees, etc.  In a true free market without interference, in a monopoly situtation, the lure of profit were become great enough for a competitor to enter the market and compete.  Now we could argue whether there are "natural" monopolies but most sectors are not that.  Given minimal barriers to entry into a market, there will be very few monopolies, it is a natural result of supply and demand in a "true" free market. Adam Smith's hand works wonders when left alone. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 08, 2023, 11:46:26 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on May 08, 2023, 10:49:01 AM

Typically when the free market tends towards monopolies in particular industry, it is because of entry barriers in the market.  For some it can be material costs, others Labor cost and in this day and age government regulations, taxes, fees, etc.  In a true free market without interference, in a monopoly situtation, the lure of profit were become great enough for a competitor to enter the market and compete.  Now we could argue whether there are "natural" monopolies but most sectors are not that.  Given minimal barriers to entry into a market, there will be very few monopolies, it is a natural result of supply and demand in a "true" free market. Adam Smith's hand works wonders when left alone.

Most definitely on that bolded part.

Also, not just entry. It's almost harder to exit than it is to enter. Trust me. Been there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 08, 2023, 11:58:46 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 08, 2023, 10:44:21 AM

What % of the US population is transgender? According to recent surveys and other efforts its been estimated at about one third of one percent or approx 1 million citizens

If AB actually undertook this move to reach out to new audiences it was a stupid move and not worth the money invested

That particular influencer reportedly has 8M followers, so even if there are only 1M transgender people in the US, the message will reach a lot more people than just the trans folks.

I'm sure that Bud Light is probably seen by some in that community and in the group of people that support that community as less than inclusive, and this was intended IMHO to offer PR that Bud Light is inclusive. Or at the very least to raise brand awareness. 

Apparently there was next to nothing invested from a monetary standpoint, so it's not like this was a multi-million dollar Super Bowl commercial. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 08, 2023, 12:12:17 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on May 08, 2023, 10:49:01 AM

Typically when the free market tends towards monopolies in particular industry, it is because of entry barriers in the market.  For some it can be material costs, others Labor cost and in this day and age government regulations, taxes, fees, etc.  In a true free market without interference, in a monopoly situtation, the lure of profit were become great enough for a competitor to enter the market and compete.  Now we could argue whether there are "natural" monopolies but most sectors are not that.  Given minimal barriers to entry into a market, there will be very few monopolies, it is a natural result of supply and demand in a "true" free market. Adam Smith's hand works wonders when left alone.

I'd argue that "tends towards monopolies" actually becomes "tends towards oligopolies". One reason for that is that customers usually want multiple companies competing for their business, so they want to make sure that you don't have a single supplier for critical things. 

As an example, the airlines want both Boeing and Airbus to remain healthy. Because if only one survives, that company can extract outsized profits. 

But I work in an industry that is an oligopoly. The barrier to entry is tech. We have two main products:

• The first is a finished good that market economics have led to be very highly vertically integrated. The amount of technology required to remain cutting edge in this product are absolutely astounding. It would effectively be impossible for a new entrant to make a splash here without basically unlimited funding. Today there are only three companies in the world that supply this product. 
• The second is a major technology that is the foundation for companies to build other finished goods. Thus in the market, there are quite a lot of finished goods makers, but the actual underpinning components are only sourced from 4 companies, or 5/6 depending on how you count certain joint ventures/etc, but I count it as 4. To build a new fabrication plant in this industry costs somewhere between $5-10B. China, however, is trying to enter this market with an upstart company, throwing billions and billions of yuan at it, to make it 5. 

It's why both industries used as examples of monopolies (potato chips and beer) are so terrible. There are effectively zero barriers to entry in either market. The barriers tend to start appearing when you really try to scale up, and that's generally when you need to be acquired to deliver at scale. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 08, 2023, 12:28:48 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 08, 2023, 09:44:24 AM

For me and almost all of the small business owners I know - and I know a lot of them - there is but one goal in the end.

That goal is to build a company that is strong enough to be A) acquired by a larger company for a large sum or B) acquired by employees at an amount equal to or greater than a nice pension.

I would have preferred A, but I worried about what the larger company might do to the great employees. So I chose B.

Everyone is happy.

I would say that there are a lot of businesses that don't have either of those goals. I generally use the term "lifestyle businesses" for those. 

One example would be a brewery that has no desire to be the next Sierra Nevada or Samuel Adams. It's generally started by someone who knows they have to earn a living, has a passion for beer, and would rather start a small brewery so that they work for themselves doing something they love rather than going to some job working for someone else that they dread every morning. All they really want is a business that they can control and that pays them enough money to live the lifestyle they want. More is always good, but they're not getting into it with an "exit strategy" of being acquired. (Not that they'd turn down a few million in most cases, of course, but there are rarely prospective buyers of this type of brewery willing to spend it.)

Another example is my dad. He spent his career as a self-employed architect. He actually worked for a big firm in Chicago early in his career. He even had some design work on the Hancock Building. He was a "rising star" and could have risen up the ranks in that firm, getting loftier and loftier titles and taking on more and more management responsibility. But he hated it. So he started his own firm. His office was most of the bottom floor of our house (absent garage and laundry room). My entire childhood he usually had one draftsman working for him (occasionally two). He taught architecture at College of Dupage on the side and loved it. He always had enough work coming in that he could turn down work, and never advertised--he stayed busy entirely through referrals. He did it because he loved the creative work of being an architect and working for himself gave him the freedom to earn a living without a lot of the BS that comes from "going to work". He could have grown that practice any time he chose--but he liked it the way it was and it (plus my mom's income) gave them enough income to raise three kids out in the suburbs.

For a business like a neighborhood brewery, the exit strategy is to sell it for a modest sum (essentially what it would cost someone else to start a brewery) when you're ready to retire, unless perhaps you pass it down in the family. For something like my dad, it was to retire and just close shop because the business had no sale value without him doing the drawing. 

I think a lot of lifestyle businesses are started because the owner needs to earn a living, and just wants to do it on their own terms. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 08, 2023, 12:36:38 PM

Well, my view and the view of most others I know is different.

Having a business to simply make a living is a hobby disguised as a business.

I have nothing against this, for the record. To each their own.

I wanted something much more, for me and my people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 08, 2023, 12:50:01 PM

V.E. Day today Kudos to all the brave souls that served/fought/sacrificed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 08, 2023, 12:54:35 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 08, 2023, 11:58:46 AM

That particular influencer reportedly has 8M followers, so even if there are only 1M transgender people in the US, the message will reach a lot more people than just the trans folks.

I'm sure that Bud Light is probably seen by some in that community and in the group of people that support that community as less than inclusive, and this was intended IMHO to offer PR that Bud Light is inclusive. Or at the very least to raise brand awareness.

Apparently there was next to nothing invested from a monetary standpoint, so it's not like this was a multi-million dollar Super Bowl commercial.

Still seems too small for the effort

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on May 08, 2023, 01:15:44 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 08, 2023, 11:58:46 AM

That particular influencer reportedly has 8M followers, so even if there are only 1M transgender people in the US, the message will reach a lot more people than just the trans folks.

I'm sure that Bud Light is probably seen by some in that community and in the group of people that support that community as less than inclusive, and this was intended IMHO to offer PR that Bud Light is inclusive. Or at the very least to raise brand awareness.

Apparently there was next to nothing invested from a monetary standpoint, so it's not like this was a multi-million dollar Super Bowl commercial.

I'd like for somebody to do a deep dive on these stats and see how many are actually real people.  I know I'm on twitter and I have followers who are definitely either bots or similar fake accounts.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on May 08, 2023, 01:18:12 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 08, 2023, 12:36:38 PM

Well, my view and the view of most others I know is different.

Having a business to simply make a living is a hobby disguised as a business.

I have nothing against this, for the record. To each their own.

I wanted something much more, for me and my people.

I think "lifestyle" businesses (I like that term) are structured so much different because there are not that many capital costs to get into it.  No expensive construction equipment, low office costs such as officing out of your home, only a handful of employees.  

As somebody who is currently scaling up I can definitely attest I fall into 847's category #2, except I hope to pass it on to my kids (they will have to buy me out in some form, albeit cheaper than the market would get).  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 08, 2023, 01:21:36 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 08, 2023, 08:42:09 AM

Well, I guess you could sit around, feeling sorry for yourself and blaming the rest of the world for your situation. Let's see how that works out for you.

Perhaps there are other countries that have it figured out and align more with your line of thinking. I hear that rents are pretty cheap in Cuba. You may want to consider a move there? LOL.

Exhibit A and B of your tribe's total lack of validity.

Your first point suggests that sitting around feeling sorry for yourself is the only alternative to working hard and having it pay off.
.
Your second point of 'if I don't like it, I can leave' suggests that you have no desire to possibly improve the US.  So I guess it's perfect?  But then you'll immediately say it's not perfect.  So then why not try to imrpvoe it!?!?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 08, 2023, 01:34:40 PM

Quote from: Gigem on May 08, 2023, 01:18:12 PM

I think "lifestyle" businesses (I like that term) are structured so much different because there are not that many capital costs to get into it.  No expensive construction equipment, low office costs such as officing out of your home, only a handful of employees. 

As somebody who is currently scaling up I can definitely attest I fall into 847's category #2, except I hope to pass it on to my kids (they will have to buy me out in some form, albeit cheaper than the market would get). 

Oh, heck yes, if they will take it on. Neither of my kids are engineers or surveyors, so it can't happen. But it would have been nice.

It takes about $175K to outfit each field survey tech we have. Truck, GPS, Robotics, computer, etc. 

We have 5 of them currently.

People will call us for a residential mortgage survey and let us know they have received pricing from others, in the $500 range. Shit, we can't start a truck for $500. But they need it in a week and the basement surveyor (lifestyle business) is on vacation and has no staff.

So, we get the $1500 we want. Free market.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 08, 2023, 01:36:07 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 08, 2023, 01:21:36 PM

Exhibit A and B of your tribe's total lack of validity.

Your first point suggests that sitting around feeling sorry for yourself is the only alternative to working hard and having it pay off.
.
Your second point of 'if I don't like it, I can leave' suggests that you have no desire to possibly improve the US.  So I guess it's perfect?  But then you'll immediately say it's not perfect.  So then why not try to imrpvoe it!?!?

How would you improve it? I've been asking you this for quite some time. Solutions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 08, 2023, 01:48:36 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 08, 2023, 12:54:35 PM

Still seems too small for the effort

Eh. When everything dropped it sounded like the effort was absolutely minimal. It wasn't some ad blitz or anything like that. Not sure what they paid, but we're talking the gnat on the ass of the elephant that is the Bud Light marketing budget. 

Even if it's not a ton of value, it could still have been worth it if the effort was small enough. 

What caused the problem, tho, is the backlash. Which turned it into negative value. 

The mistake they made was probably looking at value vs. effort and didn't give enough attention to risk. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 08, 2023, 01:52:35 PM

Why do car companies create off-shoot brands?  Why is the chip and cookie aisle produced by like 4 companies?  Yes, there's word for it, but oligopolies that communicate with each other are a virtual monopoly.  

I know, I know, they'd never do anything to screw the consumer or break the law.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 08, 2023, 01:53:25 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 08, 2023, 01:36:07 PM

How would you improve it? I've been asking you this for quite some time. Solutions.

It's hard to fix something when half the country doesn't recognize there's a problem.  Let's hand out mirrors.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 08, 2023, 02:00:28 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 08, 2023, 01:53:25 PM

It's hard to fix something when half the country doesn't recognize there's a problem.  Let's hand out mirrors.

(https://i.imgur.com/U467Qhv.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 08, 2023, 02:01:43 PM

Quote from: Gigem on May 08, 2023, 01:18:12 PM

I think "lifestyle" businesses (I like that term) are structured so much different because there are not that many capital costs to get into it.  No expensive construction equipment, low office costs such as officing out of your home, only a handful of employees. 

As somebody who is currently scaling up I can definitely attest I fall into 847's category #2, except I hope to pass it on to my kids (they will have to buy me out in some form, albeit cheaper than the market would get). 

Yeah, and to an extent the term can be wider. 

I first came across it as a term used to denigrate a business. It was when I was working for a startup that obviously had investors, and the investors had the typical [tech] startup exit strategy that was either IPO or get acquired. Whereas other businesses in the sector basically said: "We have a certain addressable market, we have a business plan that makes us competitive, and we desire to service that market. It's not a robust growth market, so we'll work to keep a defendable market share and a good enough gross margin to pay our owners and our employees." The very IPO/startup minded folks looked at something like a "lifestyle business" as more of a "dead end" business, because it might keep you employed but it'll never make you wildly rich.

That said, these businesses weren't little mom&pop work from home deals. And in many ways, neither is a brewery. It might cost a couple hundred thousand to really get set up to run a small neighborhood brewery. 

The difference is that in brewing, someone who wants to scale and expand gets investors. To lure investors you need an exit strategy for them to get their investment back plus enough profit to justify the risk of investment. If you're looking at brewing as a lifestyle business, you get a loan. To secure a loan you just need a viable business plan that shows you're going to be able to earn enough money to pay back the loan and remain a viable business beyond your loan servicing cost, and collateral for the bank to seize if you screw up too badly. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 08, 2023, 02:09:56 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 08, 2023, 01:52:35 PM

Why do car companies create off-shoot brands?  Why is the chip and cookie aisle produced by like 4 companies?  Yes, there's word for it, but oligopolies that communicate with each other are a virtual monopoly. 

I know, I know, they'd never do anything to screw the consumer or break the law.

Why are there so many packaging options? Is it because people want that many packaging options, or is it because certain brands want to crowd others off the shelves? 

I'd argue it's the latter. Again, with beer. Do you really need 6/12/18/24/30 pack cans AND 6/12/18/24 pack bottles of Bud Light? No. I don't think there's consumer demand for so many packaging options. But if you're Bud Light and you have enough market power, you can demand that grocery stores stock ALL of your packaging sizes in order to have access to any of them, and then you take up enough shelf space that it crowds out competition.

Same thing with chips and cookies. The more you offer, the more space it takes, and the less space is there for others.

It's screwing the consumer and fully legal to do. 

And yet, they're still losing market share. 

Until Kroger makes it illegal for you to go to Trader Joe's or Mothers Market or Smart & Final or Walmart or Whole Foods or any number of other places who offer you wider oprtions for your beer/chips/cookies consumption, I fail to see the problem here. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 08, 2023, 02:13:43 PM

Quote from: Gigem on May 08, 2023, 10:16:36 AM

They partnered with some transgender “ IT” in an ad campaign. It did not go well.

Got sucked up into the culture war jet engine something fierce. A little like the cancel culture mess of yesteryear. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on May 08, 2023, 02:35:10 PM

I’d wager that almost every business starts off as a lifestyle business. Apple, HP, all sorts of sizes and flavors started in a garage and grew from there. Some of the newer biz gets funded by VC, so they scale up quickly. I won’t pretend to understand how that works. 

As someone who is in the middle of going from a part timer with limited ability to fill time with full ability I’m facing the same criticisms. But I’m winning jobs, doing good work. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 08, 2023, 02:55:41 PM

Quote from: Gigem on May 08, 2023, 02:35:10 PM

I’d wager that almost every business starts off as a lifestyle business. Apple, HP, all sorts of sizes and flavors started in a garage and grew from there. Some of the newer biz gets funded by VC, so they scale up quickly. I won’t pretend to understand how that works.

Bear in mind that I've never started a startup nor tried to secure VC funding, but here is my general idea of how it works in tech... 

• People come up with an idea. Typically it's an idea that they believe to be revolutionary or to be so amazing that it will take the entire world by storm. These are tech types who already know their industry and have some credibility in that industry, so it's not like they're complete unknowns. 
• They convince an "angel investor" to stake them. These are the very earliest of investments, very risky, and usually just enough money to get them off the ground. The business needs seed money to open, and the founders and early employees need income because the startup probably doesn't have any path to generate revenue this early. The payoff for an angel investor is equity in the company, so if it explodes, a small investment can have a massive payoff. 
• They start working on trying to make the idea a reality. Usually this will have various proof of concept points to show that the claims they made about their idea actually looking like they might come true and become a viable product. That said, they probably still haven't sold anything, and don't have anything at a stage that they could sell. If they're failing to meet those PoC targets, then they disappear and go back and get real jobs (or form another startup with a new idea).  
• At this stage they start looking into more traditional VC funding to start scaling up. Unlike the angels, these are bigger funding rounds. They're still risky, but because the initial proof of concept work has been promising there's enough "meat" there to justify the larger investments. 
• These later investments are often denoted by series based on how far they in and how much money they need, i.e. Series A will be when the idea is still in its toddler stage, they might need Series B when it's in its pre-teen phase, and might need to go back again for Series C in order to actually hit market. That said, some companies may actually be earning revenue but aren't profitable, and need the later series to scale up past the break-even point. 
• During the series funding you may hit a point where acquisition looks promising. This is often when a company has intellectual property that's very valuable but it no longer looks like there's a business plan that will allow them to exploit it. In this case the investors may sell to a larger company that wants the IP, knowing they're getting SOME return on their investment but not what they hoped for. 
• If the business gets to a truly successful, then the investors start looking to execute the exit strategy. In some cases this can be an IPO, in some cases this can be an acquisition. 

I don't think a lot of tech "startups" are meant to be lifestyle businesses if someone's trying to engage VC. Usually they need VC because the path to revenue can be years-long, and sometimes the path to profitability even longer. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 08, 2023, 03:03:24 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 08, 2023, 02:13:43 PM

Got sucked up into the culture war jet engine something fierce. A little like the cancel culture mess of yesteryear.

Disney is the king (or maybe I should say queen) of this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 08, 2023, 04:01:38 PM

In my case, there were no investors. I saved up enough money to go without a paycheck for 2 years and started in 2001. Turns out it was only 6 months without a check, and with the remaining savings I invested more into the business to expand (buy equipment and hire people). The work was coming in, so it made sense.

Then we got 2008-ed. It was really starting over at that point as the company wasn't strong enough to weather that kind of storm yet. I think it is now, 15 years later.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on May 08, 2023, 04:32:44 PM

I’ve been working my business since 2010. Mostly me, and then when my sons got older they would help. I pocketed cash jobs, everything else went back into the business. Working a regular job I didn’t need the income. I bought some trucks, built a shop, tools, equipment. Last year I hired my first employee, then another. Next year will be tough, because we’re buying an expensive piece of equipment and we need jobs to pay for it. Up until this year I could keep my workload low and still do ok, as my overhead was quite low. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 08, 2023, 04:43:52 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 08, 2023, 03:03:24 PM

Disney is the king (or maybe I should say queen) of this

Possibly, though slightly different mechanics. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on May 08, 2023, 06:29:24 PM

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2023/06/dc-solar-power-ponzi-scheme-scandal/673782/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on May 08, 2023, 06:29:56 PM

Interesting story. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 08, 2023, 07:14:40 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 08, 2023, 02:09:56 PM

I'd argue it's the latter. Again, with beer. Do you really need 6/12/18/24/30 pack cans 

Yes,yes we do 30 pks,not because I'm afflicted with the thirst.But we'll be back eventually so why bother waisting trips so save gas/time/money better for the environment to

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 08, 2023, 07:29:16 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on May 08, 2023, 07:14:40 PM

Yes,yes we do 30 pks,not because I'm afflicted with the thirst.But we'll be back eventually so why bother waisting trips so save gas/time/money better for the environment to

Well, with proper planning, you can work around this. Buy (2) 24 packs less often and you're good to go. Beer doesn't last forever in a can, but it lasts plenty long to sit in your fridge an extra week. 

But again, the point isn't actually the maximum packaging of 30 (and wasn't there a 36-can deal on the market way back when?)... The idea is that they want to make as many possible packaging configurations as possible, force the grocery store to carry ALL of them, and then that not only crowds out the room for competitors on the shelves, but it also makes the Bud Light (and Miller Lite and Coors Light) sections of the aisle much larger, much more prominent, and puts "Bud Light" front and center in your cranium. On top of crowding out competitors, it ALSO is a low-key form of advertising. 

That said, even with all this, they're still losing. Because consumers are slowly moving towards beer that tastes like actual beer. 

As the old one goes...

Q: What does American light beer have in common with sex in a canoe?
A: They're both f*****g close to water. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 08, 2023, 08:47:35 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 08, 2023, 02:00:28 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/U467Qhv.png)

But I'm not.  
Sigh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on May 08, 2023, 09:58:30 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 08, 2023, 07:29:16 PM

Well, with proper planning, you can work around this. Buy (2) 24 packs less often and you're good to go. Beer doesn't last forever in a can, but it lasts plenty long to sit in your fridge an extra week.

But again, the point isn't actually the maximum packaging of 30 (and wasn't there a 36-can deal on the market way back when?)... The idea is that they want to make as many possible packaging configurations as possible, force the grocery store to carry ALL of them, and then that not only crowds out the room for competitors on the shelves, but it also makes the Bud Light (and Miller Lite and Coors Light) sections of the aisle much larger, much more prominent, and puts "Bud Light" front and center in your cranium. On top of crowding out competitors, it ALSO is a low-key form of advertising.

That said, even with all this, they're still losing. Because consumers are slowly moving towards beer that tastes like actual beer.

As the old one goes...

Q: What does American light beer have in common with sex in a canoe?
A: They're both f*****g close to water.

All beer consumption is shrinking, including craft. Craft volume was down 5% in '22.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 08, 2023, 10:07:45 PM

Local Austin brewery Austin Beerworks once made a 99-pack.  Promotional gimmick of course but it got some press around the country.

(https://i.imgur.com/zvz4VmT.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 09, 2023, 07:27:05 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 08, 2023, 08:47:35 PM

But I'm not. 
Sigh.

Solutions. I want to hear them. All you do is bitch and moan.

You constantly shit on my country and I'm tired of it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 09, 2023, 08:24:00 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 08, 2023, 01:21:36 PM

Exhibit A and B of your tribe's total lack of validity.

Your first point suggests that sitting around feeling sorry for yourself is the only alternative to working hard and having it pay off.
.
Your second point of 'if I don't like it, I can leave' suggests that you have no desire to possibly improve the US.  So I guess it's perfect?  But then you'll immediately say it's not perfect.  So then why not try to imrpvoe it!?!?

I never claimed this country is perfect. But I don't rely on the government to make it better. The government is the cause of many of the issues that I see as detrimental to the issues that you and I care about. The government, and the Federal government in particular, has grown way beyond it's usefulness and has become a behemoth that exists to serve itself. In so doing, they have implemented policies that either directly or indirectly have a negative influence on society as a whole. 

While I believe that we both recognize that this is an imperfect country, I don't see a better model out there at the moment where as you seem to believe that if we just move closer to government dependence, all of our troubles would go away, hence my suggestion where you could move to a country that already has that model. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 09, 2023, 09:26:12 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 09, 2023, 07:27:05 AM

Solutions. I want to hear them. All you do is bitch and moan.

You constantly shit on my country and I'm tired of it.

His solution is that the one half of the country that isn't in lockstep agreement with his tribe should change their minds... 

...or maybe just disappear. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 09, 2023, 09:36:23 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 09, 2023, 08:24:00 AM

While I believe that we both recognize that this is an imperfect country, I don't see a better model out there at the moment

Great Post,except I'd take a billion or two from the already criminally overpaid defense industry and build the G** D*** wall and secure it with the Marines or rotate other military units. They actually will be defending the country - stop triffling with these drug lords and kill them. Any newly elected president should use the gestapo tactics of the present adminsitration and force Pelosi,Finebaum,Branden,Hunter and the rest to stand in the way of the mess they've created outside of their gated communities

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 09, 2023, 09:40:11 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 09, 2023, 09:26:12 AM

His solution is that the one half of the country that isn't in lockstep agreement with his tribe should change their minds...

...or maybe just disappear.

Testify Bwarb Testify :cheer:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 09, 2023, 09:45:35 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 09, 2023, 09:26:12 AM

His solution is that the one half of the country that isn't in lockstep agreement with his tribe should change their minds...

...or maybe just disappear.

Could be.

I'd rather we all be enlightened by the poster in question. He needs to make his point(s) and make it(them) clearly.

ID the problems and offer solutions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 09, 2023, 09:47:00 AM

I see the echo chamber is in full force this morning.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 09, 2023, 09:47:19 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 09, 2023, 07:27:05 AM

Solutions. I want to hear them. All you do is bitch and moan.

You constantly shit on my country and I'm tired of it.

Your country?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 09, 2023, 09:47:37 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 09, 2023, 09:45:35 AM

Could be.

I'd rather we all be enlightened by the poster in question. He needs to make his point(s) and make it(them) clearly.

ID the problems and offer solutions.

No solution is worth mentioning if it's falling on deaf ears.
YOUR country.
Fuck off.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 09, 2023, 09:58:19 AM

It's your country too. 

Tell us how it should be changed, and why, rather than telling me to fuck off. That is nothing but a copout. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 09, 2023, 10:08:08 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/VelR6Ke.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 09, 2023, 10:08:41 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 09, 2023, 09:47:37 AM

No solution is worth mentioning if it's falling on deaf ears.
YOUR country.
Fuck off.

How dare he be proud of his country.  

WTF is wrong with you?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 09, 2023, 10:10:56 AM

In a few years I'll be looking at 60. I'm thinking of maybe taking my entire Roth at that time and pay off the house, and then maybe even retire. Any insight on this idea? I have not talked to our planner about this at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on May 09, 2023, 11:09:52 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 09, 2023, 10:10:56 AM

In a few years I'll be looking at 60. I'm thinking of maybe taking my entire Roth at that time and pay off the house, and then maybe even retire. Any insight on this idea? I have not talked to our planner about this at all.

I would look at my interest rate on my mortgage and what my "expected" rate of return on your Roth.  As long I am getting more of a return on my investments than what I am paying on my house, I wouldn't pay off my mortgage.  You can pull out as you need to make payments and at any time you think that your returns won't exceed your mortgage rate pay off the house. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 09, 2023, 11:26:39 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 09, 2023, 09:47:00 AM

I see the echo chamber is in full force this morning.

Or maybe you don't understand anything not in your head. You say half of the country doesn't even think there's a problem. That's not true.

The issue is that different people have different ideas of what the problems are. And sometimes, although you can't comprehend this, they look at what you think are solutions and to them your solutions make the problems worse. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 09, 2023, 11:27:40 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on May 09, 2023, 11:09:52 AM

I would look at my interest rate on my mortgage and what my "expected" rate of return on your Roth.  As long I am getting more of a return on my investments than what I am paying on my house, I wouldn't pay off my mortgage.  You can pull out as you need to make payments and at any time you think that your returns won't exceed your mortgage rate pay off the house.

Thanks.

Interest rates will be the key, I think. We did a 30 with the 10-year ARM increase (or decrease but I doubt it) with the idea of having it paid off. So far, the decision is sound. But it's really all about where rates will be in 7 years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 09, 2023, 11:43:01 AM

That is good advice from RiffRaft. 

Take into account 2 other things. What is the amount of tax deduction on your mortgage interest and therefore the actual interest rate and what is the new tax rate for the interest earned on your Roth.

There’s a good chance you will want to keep your tax deductions on your interest. As long as you retain the ability to pay off your mortgage, that door will always be open.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 09, 2023, 11:58:15 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 09, 2023, 11:26:39 AM

Or maybe you don't understand anything not in your head. You say half of the country doesn't even think there's a problem. That's not true.

The issue is that different people have different ideas of what the problems are. And sometimes, although you can't comprehend this, they look at what you think are solutions and to them your solutions make the problems worse.

I agree with you 90%.  I'd agree 100% except he never actually offers solutions, he just bemoans the status quo and disparages the people who are not 100% in lockstep agreement with him and his tribe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 09, 2023, 12:20:11 PM

Quote from: utee94 on May 09, 2023, 11:58:15 AM

I agree with you 90%.  I'd agree 100% except he never actually offers solutions, he just bemoans the status quo and disparages the people who are not 100% in lockstep agreement with him and his tribe.

Well he does offer solutions. He thinks that every problem is simple and it has a simple and obvious solution that he can see, and a bunch of dolts like us must just be evil if we don't think his solution is great. 

I.e. take 24/7 cable news. He thinks the problem with the news is the profit motive and the desire for ratings. So just take a certain number of hours each day that if you call yourself a "news" organization you have to present w/o advertisements. And of course you can only present the news in a factual and unbiased way, and of course only someone as learned as OAM and his ilk will be able to determine whether or not you're doing it to their satisfaction.  

Of course, looking at this closely, every news organization will know that capturing viewers during his "factual non-ad time slot" is building an audience that will join you before and after that time slot. So in reality, you're just going to get the same behavior as you have now, because they know the spillover effects of having high ratings during those time slots will bleed into the unregulated time where they're selling ads. 

But when you're OAM, such a "simple" problem can just be magically fixed with his simple stroke-of-the-pen solution. It's obvious!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 09, 2023, 12:50:52 PM

How bout we let the information highway remain free

and the decision as to what to listen to remain with us

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 09, 2023, 12:56:03 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 09, 2023, 11:43:01 AM

That is good advice from RiffRaft.

Take into account 2 other things. What is the amount of tax deduction on your mortgage interest and therefore the actual interest rate and what is the new tax rate for the interest earned on your Roth.

There’s a good chance you will want to keep your tax deductions on your interest. As long as you retain the ability to pay off your mortgage, that door will always be open.

Since the wife retired we take the standard deduction. Before, we gave a ton to charity (education and healthcare) so we could itemize then. Not as much anymore. Property tax is embarrassingly low here. Up in Chicago that tax alone exceeded SALT by FAR. We can't even get close to SALT now - good.

The Roths (I have two - one traditional managed investments and one for self-directed real estate) will be tax-free upon taking it. Everything in there is simply mine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 09, 2023, 12:56:40 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 09, 2023, 12:50:52 PM

How bout we let the information highway remain free

and the decision as to what to listen to remain with us

Censorship has become a big problem. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 09, 2023, 01:23:04 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 09, 2023, 12:20:11 PM

Well he does offer solutions. He thinks that every problem is simple and it has a simple and obvious solution that he can see, and a bunch of dolts like us must just be evil if we don't think his solution is great.

I.e. take 24/7 cable news. He thinks the problem with the news is the profit motive and the desire for ratings. So just take a certain number of hours each day that if you call yourself a "news" organization you have to present w/o advertisements. And of course you can only present the news in a factual and unbiased way, and of course only someone as learned as OAM and his ilk will be able to determine whether or not you're doing it to their satisfaction. 

Of course, looking at this closely, every news organization will know that capturing viewers during his "factual non-ad time slot" is building an audience that will join you before and after that time slot. So in reality, you're just going to get the same behavior as you have now, because they know the spillover effects of having high ratings during those time slots will bleed into the unregulated time where they're selling ads.

But when you're OAM, such a "simple" problem can just be magically fixed with his simple stroke-of-the-pen solution. It's obvious!

When it come to those posts, I’ve taken to just scrolling past them and most responses. Makes the thread cleaner.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 09, 2023, 01:26:35 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 09, 2023, 12:56:40 PM

Censorship has become a big problem.

It’s an odd space. 

The issue is it’s hard to define and we very, very often fall into tribal camps when it comes to what gets called out as “censorship.” 

It also feeds into a perpetuation of victimhood that is now woven into our discussion of policy. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 09, 2023, 01:28:54 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 09, 2023, 09:47:00 AM

I see the echo chamber is in full force this morning.

your new attempts at slithering about are no more successful than your previous ones.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 09, 2023, 01:37:18 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 09, 2023, 01:26:35 PM

It’s an odd space.

The issue is it’s hard to define and we very, very often fall into tribal camps when it comes to what gets called out as “censorship.”

It also feeds into a perpetuation of victimhood that is now woven into our discussion of policy.

Welp, the New York Post censoring thing is a bad look now, and it's gonna get worse.

It is an interesting space for sure. I haven't paid a ton of attention to the Twitter files thing, but it doesn't sound great.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 09, 2023, 01:39:33 PM

The other thing is the sensationalizing of news stories, or even just complete lies in reporting.

A lot of the media likes to crap on my state and its leadership. So much of it is just not factual. 

And "they" get away with it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 09, 2023, 01:41:36 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 09, 2023, 09:47:37 AM

No solution is worth mentioning if it's falling on deaf ears.
YOUR country.
Fuck off.

https://youtu.be/ly-9MDqMAd0

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 09, 2023, 04:50:00 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 09, 2023, 01:37:18 PM

Welp, the New York Post censoring thing is a bad look now, and it's gonna get worse.

It is an interesting space for sure. I haven't paid a ton of attention to the Twitter files thing, but it doesn't sound great.

The Post thing was dumb, but for the most part lasted a day and did nothing but bring attention to the post. 

The Twitter files … more noise than anything else (with some problematic reporting errors and omissions), but they did get to feed the whole woe is me narrative. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 09, 2023, 06:41:35 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 09, 2023, 04:50:00 PM

The Post thing was dumb, but for the most part lasted a day and did nothing but bring attention to the post.

The Twitter files … more noise than anything else (with some problematic reporting errors and omissions), but they did get to feed the whole woe is me narrative.

May have also changed an election outcome (the obvious goal).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 09, 2023, 10:48:38 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 09, 2023, 06:41:35 PM

May have also changed an election outcome (the obvious goal).

Because of the censorship?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 06:06:03 AM

I continue to view the "news media" as more for entertainment than "news", it's akin to ESPiN to me.  

I think one can divine a reasonable notion of what's really happening by reading and considering a lot of different sources of information, bearing in mind it's basically all spin.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 06:37:33 AM

Putin's 'one-tank' military parade was an embarrassment for Russia (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/10/putins-one-tank-military-parade-was-an-embarrassment-for-russia.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 06:50:13 AM

Atlanta tops two more national lists: One good, one dismal | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/atl-tops-two-national-lists-one-good-one-terrible)

Sorta funny, in an obscure way ...  good for new grads, bad for buying a house (using Zillow of all things).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 06:56:51 AM

 (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/atl-tops-two-national-lists-one-good-one-terrible)Back-to-back champs Georgia Bulldogs declines White House visit (fox5atlanta.com) (https://www.fox5atlanta.com/sports/georgia-bulldogs-football-team-decline-white-house-invitation?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR31c6lxc51raxrkMTh_1DU2r6TEXP8ayHNWLwbuRC8JlgY0_RkAxA1M30c)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 10, 2023, 07:49:55 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 09, 2023, 10:48:38 PM

Because of the censorship?

Yep. 

Laptop from hell may have changed things, but the story was censored by big tech and covered up by intelligence as Russian disinformation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 10, 2023, 07:51:07 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 06:06:03 AM

I continue to view the "news media" as more for entertainment than "news", it's akin to ESPiN to me. 

I think one can divine a reasonable notion of what's really happening by reading and considering a lot of different sources of information, bearing in mind it's basically all spin.

That's why we no longer watch. And another bonus is we no longer have to turn on ESecPN to see the B1G anymore.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 07:58:17 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 10, 2023, 07:49:55 AM

Yep.

Laptop from hell may have changed things, but the story was censored by big tech and covered up by intelligence as Russian disinformation.

It was "former US intel" individuals who signed a letter suggesting it had "the hallmarks of Russian disinformation" ... a claim which arguably could be true.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 10, 2023, 08:05:16 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 07:58:17 AM

It was "former US intel" individuals who signed a letter suggesting it had "the hallmarks of Russian disinformation" ... a claim which arguably could be true.

What?  Do you know how many considered “ experts” signed?  

and no- under no circumstances could that claim be arguably true.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 08:10:35 AM

One could claim my posts here have "the hallmarks of Russian disinformation".  It's a vague claim that could be attached to nearly anything.  And I believe 51 former officials signed it.  

The problem really was how the MSM ran with that letter uncritically.  It was simply an "opinion", one taken as gospel by many,

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 10, 2023, 08:14:31 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 08:10:35 AM

One could claim my posts here have "the hallmarks of Russian disinformation".  It's a vague claim that could be attached to nearly anything.  And I believe 51 former officials signed it. 

The problem really was how the MSM ran with that letter uncritically.  It was simply an "opinion", one taken as gospel by many,

Well that is the point.  Throw some vague, ubiquitous BS claim out there and use that as an excuse to throw a blanket over coverage.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 10, 2023, 08:15:25 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 08:10:35 AM

One could claim my posts here have "the hallmarks of Russian disinformation".  It's a vague claim that could be attached to nearly anything.  And I believe 51 former officials signed it. 

The problem really was how the MSM ran with that letter uncritically.  It was simply an "opinion", one taken as gospel by many,

I've always believed that about your posts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 08:17:52 AM

Heh, as I stated, about anything could have those "hallmarks", whatever they might be...

It was a vacuous claim at the time, taken uncritically by many as meaning it WAS Russian disinformation, which is not actually was what alleged.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 10, 2023, 08:40:50 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 08:17:52 AM

Heh, as I stated, about anything could have those "hallmarks", whatever they might be...

It was a vacuous claim at the time, taken uncritically by many as meaning it WAS Russian disinformation, which is not actually was what alleged.

And that was the entire point of the claim and was enough to have big tech sensor any and all stories related to the laptop prior to the election in an effort to help Biden win. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 10, 2023, 08:48:23 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 08:17:52 AM

Heh, as I stated, about anything could have those "hallmarks", whatever they might be...

It was a vacuous claim at the time, taken uncritically by many as meaning it WAS Russian disinformation, which is not actually was what alleged.

In other words ( knowing what we know factually about the laptop- it’s contents- and how very damaging it COULD have been to Biden),

it was a very effective, intentional disinformation campaign by the party, media and Big Tech. Exactly 847’s point. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 08:57:39 AM

I thought it "clever" in the sense the letter was arguably factual, even now, and taken uncritically by most of the media as being entirely truthful (which it was not in its implications).

A statement CAN be entirely true and contain "all the hallmarks", or entirely false and contain the same.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 10, 2023, 09:57:05 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 08:57:39 AM

I thought it "clever" in the sense the letter was arguably factual, even now, and taken uncritically by most of the media as being entirely truthful (which it was not in its implications).

A statement CAN be entirely true and contain "all the hallmarks", or entirely false and contain the same.

Factual?  😂😂😂😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 10:01:54 AM

Sure, what exactly are the "hallmarks of Russian disinformation"?  As I note above, that could mean anything at all.  So, yes, it is "factual".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 10, 2023, 10:11:12 AM

According to McMurphy’s report, the conference is mulling ending the requirement that Big Ten programs must schedule their non-conference games against Power 5 teams, instead allowing a whole new batch of possibilities to enter the mix.

“The Big Ten is ‘strongly considering’ removing its requirement for league teams to play a Power Five nonconference team, starting in 2024, sources told Action Network,” wrote McMurphy. “Big Ten teams also would be allowed to continue scheduling Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) opponents, sources said.”

Additionally, the decision would of course coincide with the addition of the USC Trojans and UCLA Bruins to the Big Ten. McMurphy added some more context regarding the potential scheduling format of the conference, including that they’re expected to continue with a nine-game league schedule, “unless something crazy happens.”

“In 2024, the Big Ten grows to a 16-team league with the additions of USC and UCLA. Although the league’s scheduling format has not been officially determined, the Big Ten is expected to continue with a nine-game league schedule ‘unless something crazy happens,’ a source said,” reported McMurphy.

“If the change is made, Big Ten teams could still schedule games against Power Five non-conference opponents, but it would no longer be required.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on May 10, 2023, 10:22:25 AM

Hate it.

So much for the 12 team playoff improving OOC scheduling

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 10, 2023, 10:25:51 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 06:06:03 AM

I continue to view the "news media" as more for entertainment than "news", it's akin to ESPiN to me. 

I think one can divine a reasonable notion of what's really happening by reading and considering a lot of different sources of information, bearing in mind it's basically all spin.

that's because you're one of the few smart people in this country. unfortunately far too many people in this country take whatever they see on mainstream news media as the gospel.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 10, 2023, 10:27:06 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 09, 2023, 04:50:00 PM

The Post thing was dumb, but for the most part lasted a day and did nothing but bring attention to the post.

The Twitter files … more noise than anything else (with some problematic reporting errors and omissions), but they did get to feed the whole woe is me narrative.

Ummmm what?...lulz....'scuse me....but what fantastical shitlib world do you live in brosef? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 10, 2023, 10:28:29 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 07:58:17 AM

It was "former US intel" individuals who signed a letter suggesting it had "the hallmarks of Russian disinformation" ... a claim which arguably could be true.
 

Lmfao....it was so obviously NOT true and it was an obvious US intel propaganda op aimed directly at the American people....you know....the sort of thing that used to be illegal in this country....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 10, 2023, 10:30:12 AM

Quote from: ELA on May 10, 2023, 10:22:25 AM

Hate it.

So much for the 12 team playoff improving OOC scheduling

Completely sucks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 10:30:59 AM

How can anyone assert credibly it did NOT contain the "hallmarks of Russian dsinformation"???

As I stated, that would apply to nearly anything, including my posts here.

Some of them anyway.

It's such a vague claim as to be broadly attachable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 10, 2023, 10:31:16 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 08:10:35 AM

One could claim my posts here have "the hallmarks of Russian disinformation".  It's a vague claim that could be attached to nearly anything.  And I believe 51 former officials signed it. 

The problem really was how the MSM ran with that letter uncritically.  It was simply an "opinion", one taken as gospel by many,

The problem is the MSM is a puppet of the "deep state" which regurgitates bs narratives and propaganda wholly uncritically and runs cover for the US govt. That is it's entire purpose for being....it's part of the control apparatus and one of their main functions is to manufacture the consent of the governed. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 10, 2023, 10:31:27 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 10, 2023, 10:28:29 AM

Lmfao....it was so obviously NOT true and it was an obvious US intel propaganda op aimed directly at the American people....you know....the sort of thing that used to be illegal in this country....

It still is illegal.

Nothing will be done here though. 99.99% confident in that statement.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 10:38:18 AM

What is illegal?  That some FORMER intel fellows signed a misleading letter?  I don't think so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 10, 2023, 10:40:27 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 10:30:59 AM

How can anyone assert credibly it did NOT contain the "hallmarks of Russian dsinformation"???

As I stated, that would apply to nearly anything, including my posts here.

Some of them anyway.

It's such a vague claim as to be broadly attachable.

LMAO. Yeah. K. And the tooth fairy is real too. You can't prove it's not. So...it's might be factual. Your point is moot and makes not a lick of sense my dude. The way things are suppose to work....is you have to PRESENT EVIDENCE FOR YOUR CLAIMS/ASSUMPTIONS. That is how you judge what is true/false or the probability that something is true/false.

Anyone can say and claim anything they like. And that's all the US "intelligence" community ever does. Spout a bunch of horseshit with ZERO evidence to ever back up any of their fantastical claims. Bet you bought that whole "Sadam has weapons of mass destruction!" bullshit hook line and sinker. Didn't cha. It's OK to admit. 99% of the sheeple in this country did as well. I mean it only lead to the US waging an illegal war, occupying an entire country for a decade plus and the deaths of anywhere from 250,000 to 1 million Iraqis, millions more displaced, and an entire country destroyed. But it was a long time ago. No big deal.

CRITICAL THINKING. OH WHERE HAVE YOU GONE.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 10:43:20 AM

And you entirely miss my very simple basic point.

All sorts of things qualify as having the "hallmarks of RD".... it's a very low bar.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 10, 2023, 10:46:12 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 10, 2023, 10:31:27 AM

It still is illegal.

Nothing will be done here though. 99.99% confident in that statement.

US "intelligence" has completely infiltrated mainstream news media....surprised that more people don't understand this.... 

https://theintercept.com/2014/09/04/former-l-times-reporter-cleared-stories-cia-publication/

https://www.cato.org/commentary/how-national-security-state-manipulates-news-media

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 10, 2023, 10:47:29 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 10:43:20 AM

And you entirely miss my very simple basic point.

All sorts of things qualify as having the "hallmarks of RD".... it's a very low bar.

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/xR2SI8vqfQMLe/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47v3m78eqkskh6fxnckjdyw0lad7geglzhkozmfxdw&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 10:51:18 AM

The best kind of deceptive "information" is that which contains some truths while obscuring others, it can even be entirely true in a literal sense while being entirely misleading in its implication.

This to me is a good example of the latter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 10, 2023, 10:52:52 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 10, 2023, 08:14:31 AM

Well that is the point.  Throw some vague, ubiquitous BS claim out there and use that as an excuse to throw a blanket over coverage. 

the majority of mainstream news media flat out reported that "russian disinfo" bullshit as FACT....wholly and uncritically, without ever mentioning there wasn't a shred of evidence for that assertion. 

but that's all they have to do to sway stupid people....just report it as if it's true because big brother says it might true....and it works. every damn time. sad that there are that many people in the US who believe anything they see/read/hear from mainstream news media, but unfortuantely we live in a nation filled with complete and utter fking morons.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 10, 2023, 10:53:46 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 10:51:18 AM

The best kind of deceptive "information" is that which contains some truths while obscuring others, it can even be entirely true in a literal sense while being entirely misleading in its implication.

This to me is a good example of the latter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l60MnDJklnM

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 10, 2023, 10:54:47 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 10, 2023, 08:48:23 AM

In other words ( knowing what we know factually about the laptop- it’s contents- and how very damaging it COULD have been to Biden),

it was a very effective, intentional disinformation campaign by the party, media and Big Tech. Exactly 847’s point.

yep

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 10, 2023, 11:49:35 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 10:38:18 AM

What is illegal?  That some FORMER intel fellows signed a misleading letter?  I don't think so.

Wait until it comes out that the CIA was involved. Oh.. it has.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 11:51:49 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 10, 2023, 11:49:35 AM

Wait until it comes out that the CIA was involved. Oh.. it has.

And would that be illegal?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 12:58:13 PM

Georgia coach Kirby Smart offers thoughts on future of SEC scheduling (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/Georgia-coach-Kirby-Smart-offers-thoughts-on-future-of-SEC-scheduling-210003908/?fbclid=IwAR3OIzSlKoUfVsKoqXGMDdcMwtHiB5o3U3wyfZZ7ukkn6xH1XyzBRiUaopc)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 10, 2023, 01:35:33 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 10, 2023, 07:49:55 AM

Yep.

Laptop from hell may have changed things, but the story was censored by big tech and covered up by intelligence as Russian disinformation.

So, it was “censored,” by Twitter but not close to aggressively enough to matter. The link was blocked for like a couple days. And you could still tweet about it. If anything, it managed to drive more attention to the damn thing.

Now, you can argue that the choice led to people believe the story was discredited, though that’s not really “censorship” directly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 01:37:07 PM

The story was suppressed by a rather motley collection of agencies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 10, 2023, 01:37:28 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 10, 2023, 10:27:06 AM

Ummmm what?...lulz....'scuse me....but what fantastical shitlib world do you live in brosef?

The real one. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 10, 2023, 01:44:22 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 10, 2023, 01:35:33 PM

So, it was “censored,” by Twitter but not close to aggressively enough to matter. The link was blocked for like a couple days. And you could still tweet about it. If anything, it managed to drive more attention to the damn thing.

Now, you can argue that the choice led to people believe the story was discredited, though that’s not really “censorship” directly.

Ask yourself this question and answered honestly:

Your credibility is kind of on the line with this one.

Had that laptop belong to Trump’s family would there have been media coverage because that’s the part you’re leaving out of your analysis above. The major media networks absolutely refuse to talk about it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 10, 2023, 01:57:55 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 10, 2023, 01:44:22 PM

Ask yourself this question and answered honestly:

Your credibility is kind of on the line with this one.

Had that laptop belong to Trump’s family would there have been media coverage because that’s the part you’re leaving out of your analysis above. The major media networks absolutely refuse to talk about it.

I was talking specifically, and I mean specifically, if the Twitter censorship had a big impact.

If my credibility rides on that run-on question, I’ll say that if that laptop full of weird homemade porn and weird emails came to light that way, I think the major networks would probably have treated it as more believable, yes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 10, 2023, 02:05:14 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 10, 2023, 01:57:55 PM

I was talking specifically, and I mean specifically, if the Twitter censorship had a big impact.

If my credibility rides on that run-on question, I’ll say that if that laptop full of weird homemade porn and weird emails came to light that way, I think the major networks would probably have treated it as more believable, yes.

Thank you.  And let’s have full disclosure.  

The clear effort and motive was for the laptops’ content to never come to light. They vigorously assassinated it as not genuine long before they had any idea or opportunity to learn if it was.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 10, 2023, 06:48:11 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 10, 2023, 01:44:22 PM

Your credibility is kind of on the line with this one.

Get over yourself.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 10, 2023, 06:49:37 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 10, 2023, 06:48:11 PM

Get over yourself.

Ok LT.   cool story.  😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 10, 2023, 06:50:28 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 10:51:18 AM

The best kind of deceptive "information" is that which contains some truths while obscuring others, it can even be entirely true in a literal sense while being entirely misleading in its implication.

This to me is a good example of the latter.

Like the Bible?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 10, 2023, 06:58:06 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 10, 2023, 06:50:28 PM

Like the Bible?

You know, when I first lost my faith around the age of 13-14, I found myself (this was the early BBS days) arguing with people about religion "online". Like many people who have believed in things only to abandon them later, I had my phase of being an anti-religion zealot... Or better term... Asshole. 

Then, I matured, and figured out that it's sometimes best to argue against people trying to impose their beliefs on others, WITHOUT trying to jam a sharp stick in their eye to ridicule their beliefs. 

Perhaps one day you may find such maturity as well. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 11, 2023, 07:52:51 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 10, 2023, 06:58:06 PM

You know, when I first lost my faith around the age of 13-14, I found myself (this was the early BBS days) arguing with people about religion "online". Like many people who have believed in things only to abandon them later, I had my phase of being an anti-religion zealot... Or better term... Asshole.

Then, I matured, and figured out that it's sometimes best to argue against people trying to impose their beliefs on others, WITHOUT trying to jam a sharp stick in their eye to ridicule their beliefs.

Perhaps one day you may find such maturity as well.

Snowball.

Hell.

No chance.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 11, 2023, 07:57:05 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 10, 2023, 01:35:33 PM

So, it was “censored,” by Twitter but not close to aggressively enough to matter. The link was blocked for like a couple days. And you could still tweet about it. If anything, it managed to drive more attention to the damn thing.

Now, you can argue that the choice led to people believe the story was discredited, though that’s not really “censorship” directly.

It wasn't just twitter.

It was every platform, and alphabet agencies were involved. The latter is most disturbing. The alphabets had direct access to twitter, FB, etc. and could flag anything they wanted to flag.

We are finding out slowly what is on that laptop.

The FBI has had it since 2020. What's taking so long? (You don't have to answer that - we all know the answer).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 11, 2023, 07:57:20 AM

I never saw much purpose or benefit in arguing against someone's religious views.  I know some folks want everyone to "believe" just as they do, it has started wars in the past, Internet wars more recently, usually devolving into name calling and phrases like "Your dumb"...

My favorite ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 11, 2023, 07:59:31 AM

As for the laptop, I know there was some apparently salacious stuff on it, but I don't recall anything that implicated The Big Guy.  Hunter obviously has had "issues", and still has some apparently.  Would knowledge that the laptop was genuine have shifted many votes?  Maybe, not mine of course, but maybe.

It clearly was a concern to the Biden Campaign.

In some Better World, we might get better candidates sometime ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 11, 2023, 08:59:13 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 11, 2023, 07:59:31 AM

As for the laptop, I know there was some apparently salacious stuff on it, but I don't recall anything that implicated The Big Guy.  Hunter obviously has had "issues", and still has some apparently.  Would knowledge that the laptop was genuine have shifted many votes?  Maybe, not mine of course, but maybe.

It clearly was a concern to the Biden Campaign.

In some Better World, we might get better candidates sometime ...

2028, maybe. Maybe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 11, 2023, 09:36:43 AM

The only thing that you should think when the usual suspects start going on about Hunter Biden is "What did the GOP screw up now?"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 11, 2023, 09:39:46 AM

I think both parties gin up stuff from nearly nothing to mask whatever they are doing that could be more nefarious.  I see that Santos fellow was arrested, I have zero sympathy for him, but he's really a minor Congressman unlikely to be reelected (one can hope).

I'd love a "news program" that checked out the "major stories" of a year ago each day.  Nearly all of them would appear minor disturbances in hindsight with almost no impact on anything.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 11, 2023, 09:52:26 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on May 11, 2023, 09:36:43 AM

The only thing that you should think when the usual suspects start going on about Hunter Biden is "What did the GOP screw up now?"

Nah.

Let's investigate a candidate, a nominee, a president, a private citizen and a candidate for 7+ years and find nothing. Oh, and all 5 of those are the same guy.

 Sounds fun.

And let's start to do it with a bogus dossier paid for by the opposition.

Yeah, let's do that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 11, 2023, 09:58:05 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 11, 2023, 09:52:26 AM

Let's investigate a candidate, a nominee, a president, a private citizen and a candidate for 7+ years and find nothing. Oh, and all 5 of those are the same guy.

You could be talking about Joe Biden and his family also.  They did apparently find "stuff" about his family at least, none of it obviously illegal, there could be tax evasion and laundering in there somewhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 11, 2023, 10:18:46 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on May 11, 2023, 09:36:43 AM

The only thing that you should think when the usual suspects start going on about Hunter Biden is "What did the GOP screw up now?"

Towing the hypocritical party line I see. 
“ hey- look over there!”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 11, 2023, 11:06:28 AM

Both parties attempt to manage the news so as to deflect anything bad that may reflect on them.  It's not sometehing novel.  Both sides try and "investigate" the other for various and sundy, constantly, and in my view do an exceptionally poor job of it.  I used to watch the occasional "hearing" in Congress where they'd have someone testifying, under oath, and the OBVIOUS question would never be asked, ever.  They were too busy grandstanding and making speeches to let the testifier testify.

It's a show, meant for the media, nothing else matters.  Well, $$$ matters.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 11, 2023, 11:10:14 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 10, 2023, 06:58:06 PM

You know, when I first lost my faith around the age of 13-14, I found myself (this was the early BBS days) arguing with people about religion "online". Like many people who have believed in things only to abandon them later, I had my phase of being an anti-religion zealot... Or better term... Asshole.

Then, I matured, and figured out that it's sometimes best to argue against people trying to impose their beliefs on others, WITHOUT trying to jam a sharp stick in their eye to ridicule their beliefs.

Perhaps one day you may find such maturity as well.

This is something that baffles me about they typical (like @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) ) anti-religious leftist.

Historically religion has been used to justify bad things, I don't think anyone would deny that. It has also, however, been used to justify and been the basis of many good things.

They seem to fail to grasp that the religion part is more-or-less irrelevant. People mostly will do what they want to do and use their religion to justify it.

Nietzsche, he of the famous "God is dead" quote, predicted in the 1800's that the 20th century would see terrible wars. The communists were explicitly atheist, enforced atheism, and killed millions. The Nazis were somewhat less openly hostile to religion* but their leaders were nearly all atheists and they killed millions as well. Let's not pretend that the post-religion world will be utopian.

After Katrina I read an article on a leftist site (slate) that basically made the "stick in eye" argument that many of the victims had died "talking to their imaginary friend".

I was, as I said, baffled. Even if we agree, for the sake of discussion, that religion is completely made up why would you take pot shots at victims of a tragedy? How does it hurt you if Christians (or adherents of any other religion) "died talking to their imaginary friend"? Beyond that, if they were caught in a tragic and hopeless situation where they were certain to die why would you be angry that they found comfort in that horrible situation?

*Part of the reason that Hitler was able to take power in Germany was that the Catholics generally preferred Nazis to Communists on the justifiable basis that they had seen the mass executions of priests in the Soviet Union. In the early 1930's it became more-or-less apparent that either the Communists or the Nazis would eventually take power in Germany. At that point even strongly anti-Nazi Catholics were faced with what was tantamount to a choice of the method of their execution.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 11, 2023, 11:13:48 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on May 11, 2023, 09:36:43 AM

The only thing that you should think when the usual suspects start going on about Hunter Biden is "What did the GOP screw up now?"

As someone that doesn't identify with either tribe, all I can say is, I see no difference between them, when it comes to stuff like this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 11, 2023, 11:19:12 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 11, 2023, 11:10:14 AM

Even if we agree, for the sake of discussion, that religion is completely made up why would you take pot shots at victims of a tragedy? How does it hurt you if Christians (or adherents of any other religion) "died talking to their imaginary friend"? Beyond that, if they were caught in a tragic and hopeless situation where they were certain to die why would you be angry that they found comfort in that horrible situation?

I think it's more of a vain effort to feel superior to another, I've seen it often, I bet we all have.  "YOUR views are inferior to mine because I'm obviously smarter (and feel a weird need to make it apparent and rub your nose in it)."

I've known very smart folks who were strongly religious (and not).  Maybe there is some rough correlation between intelligence, however measured, and doubts about the supernatural, that could be.  I think intelligent folks tend to question things more readily, though I suppose that could be debated.:)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 11, 2023, 11:26:01 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 11, 2023, 11:19:12 AM

I think it's more of a vain effort to feel superior to another, I've seen it often, I bet we all have.  "YOUR views are inferior to mine because I'm obviously smarter (and feel a weird need to make it apparent and rub your nose in it)."

I think you are right but I view this as, to paraphrase @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) , immature assholery. It is understandable from teenaged Beta because we were all teenagers once, we understand.  What excuse do @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) or the author of the aforementioned Slate piece have?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 11, 2023, 11:35:03 AM

Well, it is IA, as you put it.  Any time someone tries to impress another with how smart they are, it's usually IA AND a vain attempt based on insecurity.  Most of us might have done this in fifth grade, maybe, most of us learned it's irrelevant.  I've seen the same kind of thing with "name dropping", my wife has a friend who is notorious for this, he can't speak for 5 minutes without some story about how he's friends with X.

I used to tell my kids "The hardest thing in life to be is yourself", which they found bizarre back then, and now tell me that fairly often.  Know thyself.  Live with it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 11, 2023, 11:36:14 AM

@medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) I think there is a certain psychological phenomenon that occurs when someone "converts" to something, particularly later in life. 

It's seen of course in religion (or losing one's religion). But it's also seen in a lot of other places. Have you ever known someone who became vegetarian or vegan and just won't shut the f&$k up about it? Or joined Crossfit and will tell you how AMAZING it is and how your life will be transformed if you join too? 

I think people have a certain inertia in their choices/beliefs in life, and the amount of lift to overcome that inertia to change is usually very large. And whatever pushes them over that inertia must be powerful enough that they believe others should follow. Because once they "saw the light", they can't understand how others don't see it the same way. 

I don't see this behavior from people raised without religion. I don't see it from people who [based on their ethnic traditions, like many Indian people or Jews/Muslims] were raised not eating meat or not eating meat from particular animals. I don't see it from people who have spent their life with fitness as a hobby. But I see it from people who "change". 

So if you've been raised your entire life in a religious tradition and as you mature you come to the conclusion that everything they told you was a lie, it can cause you to feel betrayed and angry. God is supposed to be the center of your worldview, and you lose belief it even exists. It's an identity-shaking change. And then when religion continues to pervade public life, particularly in political life, and people are trying to make policies that affect you based on their belief in that "lie", it fuels that anger. It can feel like religion is continuing to poke YOU in the eye with that lie. And some people can't get over that, so they react emotionally. 

You're asking the question of why they behave that way, as if they are behaving that way based upon rational reasons. I think you may not be understanding that this behavior is driven by the id. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 11, 2023, 11:41:53 AM

Interesting, I do think the "converts" to whatever are often the most outspoken and like to prosetylize (if I can spell that).

For example, I retired, and immediately told everyone in hearing distance how great it is ....:)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 11, 2023, 11:43:42 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 11, 2023, 11:41:53 AM

Interesting, I do think the "converts" to whatever are often the most outspoken and like to prosetylize (if I can spell that).

For example, I retired, and immediately told everyone in hearing distance how great it is ....:)

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 11, 2023, 11:36:14 AM

@medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) I think there is a certain psychological phenomenon that occurs when someone "converts" to something, particularly later in life.

It's seen of course in religion (or losing one's religion). But it's also seen in a lot of other places. Have you ever known someone who became vegetarian or vegan and just won't shut the f&$k up about it? Or joined Crossfit and will tell you how AMAZING it is and how your life will be transformed if you join too?

I think people have a certain inertia in their choices/beliefs in life, and the amount of lift to overcome that inertia to change is usually very large. And whatever pushes them over that inertia must be powerful enough that they believe others should follow. Because once they "saw the light", they can't understand how others don't see it the same way.

I don't see this behavior from people raised without religion. I don't see it from people who [based on their ethnic traditions, like many Indian people or Jews/Muslims] were raised not eating meat or not eating meat from particular animals. I don't see it from people who have spent their life with fitness as a hobby. But I see it from people who "change".

So if you've been raised your entire life in a religious tradition and as you mature you come to the conclusion that everything they told you was a lie, it can cause you to feel betrayed and angry. God is supposed to be the center of your worldview, and you lose belief it even exists. It's an identity-shaking change. And then when religion continues to pervade public life, particularly in political life, and people are trying to make policies that affect you based on their belief in that "lie", it fuels that anger. It can feel like religion is continuing to poke YOU in the eye with that lie. And some people can't get over that, so they react emotionally.

You're asking the question of why they behave that way, as if they are behaving that way based upon rational reasons. I think you may not be understanding that this behavior is driven by the id.

Good point. Kinda like ex-smokers and recovering alcoholics being the most annoying people on the planet to current smokers/drinkers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 11, 2023, 11:51:17 AM

We might then infer any poster here who constantly derides those with religious and conservative views was raised in a very religious, conservative family back in the day ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 11, 2023, 11:51:56 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 11, 2023, 11:43:42 AM

Good point. Kinda like ex-smokers and recovering alcoholics being the most annoying people on the planet to current smokers/drinkers.

Exactly. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 11, 2023, 12:05:44 PM

I loathe smoking with the white-hot passion of a billion burning suns.  

But I'm good with the drinking bit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 11, 2023, 12:08:46 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 11, 2023, 11:36:14 AM

@medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) I think there is a certain psychological phenomenon that occurs when someone "converts" to something, particularly later in life.

It's seen of course in religion (or losing one's religion). But it's also seen in a lot of other places. Have you ever known someone who became vegetarian or vegan and just won't shut the f&$k up about it? Or joined Crossfit and will tell you how AMAZING it is and how your life will be transformed if you join too?

I think people have a certain inertia in their choices/beliefs in life, and the amount of lift to overcome that inertia to change is usually very large. And whatever pushes them over that inertia must be powerful enough that they believe others should follow. Because once they "saw the light", they can't understand how others don't see it the same way.

I don't see this behavior from people raised without religion. I don't see it from people who [based on their ethnic traditions, like many Indian people or Jews/Muslims] were raised not eating meat or not eating meat from particular animals. I don't see it from people who have spent their life with fitness as a hobby. But I see it from people who "change".

So if you've been raised your entire life in a religious tradition and as you mature you come to the conclusion that everything they told you was a lie, it can cause you to feel betrayed and angry. God is supposed to be the center of your worldview, and you lose belief it even exists. It's an identity-shaking change. And then when religion continues to pervade public life, particularly in political life, and people are trying to make policies that affect you based on their belief in that "lie", it fuels that anger. It can feel like religion is continuing to poke YOU in the eye with that lie. And some people can't get over that, so they react emotionally.

You're asking the question of why they behave that way, as if they are behaving that way based upon rational reasons. I think you may not be understanding that this behavior is driven by the id.

So well said.  But..  you won me over with your more succinctly stated description:  “ASSHOLE”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 11, 2023, 12:15:02 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 11, 2023, 11:51:56 AM

Exactly.

Or vegans.    

https://www.foxnews.com/world/australian-vegan-pens-nasty-note-to-neighbor-for-hosting-bbq

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 11, 2023, 01:00:19 PM

Man I could believe something like that would happen in California, but Australia?  Wow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 11, 2023, 01:34:16 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 10, 2023, 06:58:06 PM

You know, when I first lost my faith around the age of 13-14, I found myself (this was the early BBS days) arguing with people about religion "online". Like many people who have believed in things only to abandon them later, I had my phase of being an anti-religion zealot... Or better term... Asshole.

Then, I matured, and figured out that it's sometimes best to argue against people trying to impose their beliefs on others, WITHOUT trying to jam a sharp stick in their eye to ridicule their beliefs.

Perhaps one day you may find such maturity as well.

My post wasn't meant as a jab at all.  Just a ho-hum connection between the idea and something unrelated.  I'm not going to alter my (especially) unremarkable posts just to avoid stepping on the toes of religous people. 

If I wanted to offend them and be an actual asshole, I have an avalanche of content for that.  But that's not close to what happened here.
And sorry if I don't agree that playing along with a delusion shows maturity.  Believers aren't 6 year-olds believing in Santa, they're 60 year olds voting in congress.  Fuck that noise.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 11, 2023, 01:43:34 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 11, 2023, 01:34:16 PM

My post wasn't meant as a jab at all.  Just a ho-hum connection between the idea and something unrelated.  I'm not going to alter my (especially) unremarkable posts just to avoid stepping on the toes of religous people. 

If I wanted to offend them and be an actual asshole, I have an avalanche of content for that.  But that's not close to what happened here.
And sorry if I don't agree that playing along with a delusion shows maturity.  Believers aren't 6 year-olds believing in Santa, they're 60 year olds voting in congress.  Fuck that noise.

You can choose to not be like this z 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 11, 2023, 01:52:29 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 11, 2023, 11:26:01 AM

I think you are right but I view this as, to paraphrase @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) , immature assholery. It is understandable from teenaged Beta because we were all teenagers once, we understand.  What excuse do @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) or the author of the aforementioned Slate piece have?

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 11, 2023, 11:35:03 AM

Well, it is IA, as you put it.  Any time someone tries to impress another with how smart they are, it's usually IA AND a vain attempt based on insecurity.  Most of us might have done this in fifth grade, maybe, most of us learned it's irrelevant.  I've seen the same kind of thing with "name dropping", my wife has a friend who is notorious for this, he can't speak for 5 minutes without some story about how he's friends with X.

I used to tell my kids "The hardest thing in life to be is yourself", which they found bizarre back then, and now tell me that fairly often.  Know thyself.  Live with it.

You guys have some interesting theories about this.  Not sure where they came from, though.
.
Pretending religion doesn't do harm is incorrect.  I'll just leave it at that.
This has nothing to do with intelligence, a lack of it, or feeling superior.  When a believer no longer believes, they don't magically become smarter.  They're simply no longer convinced.
.
Hell, one could make the argument that your religiosity is outside of your free will.  If you're convinced, it's probably due to your upbringing and/or experiences.  It may very well be out of your own hands!
And that is where you miss the crticism of the idea and not necessarily the person.  YES, believing in an invisible man in the sky that judges what you do and is especially concerned with what you do when you're naked is silly for any adult to believe.  Just because 5 billion people believe it doesn't make it any less silly.
I'm not sure how criticizing a silly idea/belief is being an asshole.  But since I'm outnumbered, I must be wrong.  Right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 11, 2023, 01:53:54 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 11, 2023, 01:34:16 PM

My post wasn't meant as a jab at all.  Just a ho-hum connection between the idea and something unrelated.  I'm not going to alter my (especially) unremarkable posts just to avoid stepping on the toes of religous people. 

If I wanted to offend them and be an actual asshole, I have an avalanche of content for that.  But that's not close to what happened here.
And sorry if I don't agree that playing along with a delusion shows maturity.  Believers aren't 6 year-olds believing in Santa, they're 60 year olds voting in congress.  Fuck that noise.

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 11, 2023, 01:43:34 PM

You can choose to not be like this z

I choose not to really be the bold part here.  I am, occassionally, elsewhere.  
But I know, I know....better to use hushed tones in the holy echo chamber.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 11, 2023, 02:08:01 PM

Echo chamber

(https://i.imgur.com/4xNf7Xc.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 11, 2023, 02:16:59 PM

Some people can be offensive without having any self awareness of it.  Then they claim innocence.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 11, 2023, 02:58:15 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/KTEhw2v.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 11, 2023, 03:14:15 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 11, 2023, 01:34:16 PM

If I wanted to offend them and be an actual asshole, I have an avalanche of content for that.  But that's not close to what happened here.
And sorry if I don't agree that playing along with a delusion shows maturity.  Believers aren't 6 year-olds believing in Santa, they're 60 year olds voting in congress.  Fuck that noise.

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 11, 2023, 01:52:29 PM

And that is where you miss the crticism of the idea and not necessarily the person.  YES, believing in an invisible man in the sky that judges what you do and is especially concerned with what you do when you're naked is silly for any adult to believe.  Just because 5 billion people believe it doesn't make it any less silly.
I'm not sure how criticizing a silly idea/belief is being an asshole.  But since I'm outnumbered, I must be wrong.  Right?

It isn't necessary to call religion a delusion nor to call the religious delusional nor to refer to religion as silly to get your point across, that is the A-hole part. 

I've made this point before but I want to make it again.  Sometimes @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) , I honestly suspect that you aren't really the leftist atheist that you appear to be because your posts are so abrasive that they are MUCH more likely to alienate and offend than they are to convince and persuade. Sometimes you end up sounding like a right-wing religious parody of yourself.  

I abandoned that theory though because I noticed that this isn't limited to politics and religion, it is in YOUR personality.  There are issues on which you and I generally agree.  The status of G5's comes immediately to mind.  Whenever we debate that on here, you and I are pretty much the extremists in the G5's are crap camp.  You do the same thing there.  Your posts are abrasive and tend to alienate and offend rather than convincing and persuading. 

I mean this in the most constructive way possible:
If you would alter your style, you'd convince and persuade a lot more people.  Seriously, when you and I agree, I want you to not post because I don't want you alienating people.  When you and I disagree, I want you to post because you'll push people to my side every time you hit "Post".  That isn't about politics or religion or G5's, it is about style. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 11, 2023, 03:19:46 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 11, 2023, 01:52:29 PM

Pretending religion doesn't do harm is incorrect.  I'll just leave it at that.

I said above that people have used religion to justify terrible things but that religion has also been used to justify good things.  I think that has more to do with people doing what they want and finding a way to utilize religion to support their preconceived idea.  

That said, chew on this:
The abolitionist movement in the US was born out of the Christian religion.  Abolitionists believed that blacks were people created in gods image just like whites and thus that enslaving them was morally wrong.  Similarly, the civil rights movement was largely born out of the same theology.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 11, 2023, 06:07:14 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 11, 2023, 01:53:54 PM

I choose not to really be the bold part here.  I am, occassionally, elsewhere. 
But I know, I know....better to use hushed tones in the holy echo chamber.

You could choose to be a bigger jerk, but opt to only be somewhat of a jerk. 

And yes, you're not the only jerk here, but in terms of the most self-starting-ly shrill and unpleasant, you're pretty close to the top. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 11, 2023, 07:10:37 PM

pretty close

as stated previously, atheists have done unspeakable acts

it's not belief or religion or lack of belief that make people good or bad, intelligent or ignorant 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 11, 2023, 08:51:08 PM

Quote from: utee94 on May 11, 2023, 11:13:48 AM

As someone that doesn't identify with either tribe, all I can say is, I see no difference between them, when it comes to stuff like this.

Ed Zachery, the middle class gets the shit sammich from both sides of the Isle

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 11, 2023, 09:05:55 PM

Quote from: utee94 on May 11, 2023, 12:05:44 PM

I loathe smoking with the white-hot passion of a billion burning suns. Maybe you tried smoking the wrong stuff,hell Willie Nelson is 90 and hasn't had a cigarette in decades and you can't smack the the smile off of his face. 

But I'm good with the drinking bit. That's what the Devil wants you to think send all that demon alcohol up this way. We'll make sure no one gets hurt in the elimination process. I'm always willing to take one for the team

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 11, 2023, 09:09:02 PM

Quote from: utee94 on May 11, 2023, 02:08:01 PM

Echo chamber

(https://i.imgur.com/4xNf7Xc.png)

He's just jealous the voices talk to you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 11, 2023, 09:12:37 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 11, 2023, 03:14:15 PM

It isn't necessary to call religion a delusion nor to call the religious delusional nor to refer to religion as silly to get your point across, that is the A-hole part. 

I've made this point before but I want to make it again.  Sometimes @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) , I honestly suspect that you aren't really the leftist atheist that you appear to be because your posts are so abrasive that they are MUCH more likely to alienate and offend than they are to convince and persuade. Sometimes you end up sounding like a right-wing religious parody of yourself. 

I abandoned that theory though because I noticed that this isn't limited to politics and religion, it is in YOUR personality.  There are issues on which you and I generally agree.  The status of G5's comes immediately to mind.  Whenever we debate that on here, you and I are pretty much the extremists in the G5's are crap camp.  You do the same thing there.  Your posts are abrasive and tend to alienate and offend rather than convincing and persuading. 

I mean this in the most constructive way possible:
If you would alter your style, you'd convince and persuade a lot more people.  Seriously, when you and I agree, I want you to not post because I don't want you alienating people.  When you and I disagree, I want you to post because you'll push people to my side every time you hit "Post".  That isn't about politics or religion or G5's, it is about style. 

I appreciate your post.
But here's the problem with religion......there is no persuading them.  My style isn't keeping them believers, no matter how abrasive.  Believers will be prudent and sane on EVERYTHING else, but religion gets a pass on those attributes.  I merely disagree with that.  No, one aspect of your life doesn't get a pass.  Religion/belief/whatever gets to play by all the same rules as everything else.  
But it's the abrasive atheist's fault that 5 billion people believe in something that TO THIS DAY has failed to provide any actual evidence of its claims.  

I agree with what you posted, but religion is different, and it's because believers treat it so.  It's not my doing.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 11, 2023, 09:14:07 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 11, 2023, 07:10:37 PM

pretty close

as stated previously, atheists have done unspeakable acts

it's not belief or religion or lack of belief that make people good or bad, intelligent or ignorant

But no atheists have done bad things in the name of atheism.  That's nonsensical.

You need religion to get good people to do bad things.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 11, 2023, 09:15:51 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 11, 2023, 03:19:46 PM

I said above that people have used religion to justify terrible things but that religion has also been used to justify good things.  I think that has more to do with people doing what they want and finding a way to utilize religion to support their preconceived idea. 

That said, chew on this:
The abolitionist movement in the US was born out of the Christian religion.  Abolitionists believed that blacks were people created in gods image just like whites and thus that enslaving them was morally wrong.  Similarly, the civil rights movement was largely born out of the same theology. 

Most of the good religion has produced is simply due to it being in power.  The church had all the money.  
Here's my thing:  every single positive thing religion has done could have been done without the god stuff.  It's unnecessary.  Why not just trim the fat?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 11, 2023, 09:16:39 PM

Quote from: utee94 on May 11, 2023, 02:08:01 PM

Echo chamber

(https://i.imgur.com/4xNf7Xc.png)

Here?  On this board?  Is this a joke?!?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 11, 2023, 09:16:47 PM

atheists have done bad things w/o being good people?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 11, 2023, 09:24:40 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 11, 2023, 09:16:47 PM

atheists have done bad things w/o being good people?

It was an abridged version of the Steven Weinberg quote, "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.  But for good people to do evil things, you need religion."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 11, 2023, 09:28:59 PM

People link theism and atheism with all these other things - ethics, intelligence, etc....when there is no connection.  It's simply an opinion on ONE claim and one claim only.
There's good and bad in both camps.  Smart and stupid.  Etc.  
.
I don't understand why people try to lump in other stuff.  The previous quote is just something to make people think - if you have to do something for a god and not for the good of people, there could be a scary conundrum.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 11, 2023, 09:42:11 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/345422949_227366839909927_3380367157853872577_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=x_8JW7JHtcQAX-LYbdp&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfABNQWZOqDR16YLiDoTgIAdSdPcT1uA1rFkyMDCQbozHw&oe=6462294E)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 11, 2023, 10:40:14 PM

I'd rather not lie to people though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 12, 2023, 07:23:28 AM

The border will be interesting today. I hope they have a plan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 12, 2023, 07:49:42 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 12, 2023, 07:23:28 AM

The border will be interesting today. I hope they have a plan.

The plan is obviously to roll out the red carpet for the undocumented Democrats. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 07:54:13 AM

I think it best to avoid religion as a topic for comment, and to eliminate use of the "F" word here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 07:55:23 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 12, 2023, 07:23:28 AM

The border will be interesting today. I hope they have a plan.

As I understand it, we go back to Title 8, which in effect means longer paperwork requirements.  This is why so many tried to get in before today the number of entrees COULD actually drop under Title 8.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 12, 2023, 08:29:10 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 07:54:13 AM

I think it best to avoid religion as a topic for comment, and to eliminate use of the "F" word here.

I'll second that.

Would mind also curbing the politics in favor of policy. I know that's a fine line.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 08:35:32 AM

I made a decision to stop "cussing" a while back.  I figure if I can't make a point without using the "F" word every third word, I'm pretty incompetent.  It doesn't offend me, though in my view, it makes one's argument less impactful and more puerile.  As for religion, we all have our beliefs generally not based purely on logic, and thus is not really subject to argument.  I have zero desire to make light of another's religious beliefs (there could be an exception for the truly weird ones).  I don't think others should either, at least not here.  I don't think it possible to argue in print that one should or should not adhere to some major religion.  Usually, "we" adopt whatever religion was in proximity to our childhood and culture.  Often, a person rebels against that, as noted, and goes to the other extreme.  It's akin to the person who stopped smoking and started working out, they can get obnoxious, for no reason.

Anyway, in my view, the F and C words should not be written here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 08:59:32 AM

Title 42 explained: What is it, why is it ending, what’s next? | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4000948-title-42-explained-what-is-it-why-is-it-ending-whats-next/)

Democrats are basically in a bind here being pulled this way and that, resulting in some ineffective half measures pleasing no one, in my view.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 12, 2023, 09:14:17 AM

I don't really care about the swearing, but I could do without the fucking politics.

Ooops, sorry.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 10:14:47 AM

Pandemic-related asylum restrictions known as Title 42 expire, straining U.S. immigration system (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/12/pandemic-related-asylum-restrictions-known-as-title-42-expire-straining-us-immigration-system.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 10:26:03 AM

Quote from: utee94 on May 12, 2023, 09:14:17 AM

I don't really care about the swearing, but I could do without the fucking politics.

Ooops, sorry.

I have no problems discussing politics as long as its an honest discussion and not a crap throwing contest

I really wish we would leave religion alone as its a very personal issue

as far as cussing is concerned as a Texan you would be cutting my vocabulary by 30% so Im not really for its complete absence

sometimes you just have to inform someone they are a fucking idiot and theres just not other words that will do

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 12, 2023, 10:26:49 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 10:26:03 AM

I have no problems discussing politics as long as its an honest discussion and not a crap throwing contest

I really wish we would leave religion alone as its a very personal issue

as far as cussing is concerned as a Texan you would be cutting my vocabulary by 30% so Im not really for its complete absence

sometimes you just have to inform someone they are a fucking idiot and theres just not other words that will do

amen brutha

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 10:28:37 AM

Heh, the cussing things is just a personal preference, not something I want to be universal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 12, 2023, 10:45:29 AM

I feel a person should expand their vocabulary if they use the F-bomb regularly.

It's similar to the Gatorade shower for the winning coach.  It's been done for decades and is boring.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 12, 2023, 11:04:00 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 10:26:03 AM

I have no problems discussing politics as long as its an honest discussion and not a crap throwing contest

Anything that involves the name "Brandon" is by definition a crap throwing contest. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 11:13:14 AM

What if my real name IS Brandon?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 11:49:52 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 12, 2023, 11:04:00 AM

Anything that involves the name "Brandon" is by definition a crap throwing contest.

so thats your line in the sand

how bout potted plant

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 12, 2023, 11:56:02 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 11:49:52 AM

so thats your line in the sand

how bout potted plant

You can say whatever you like, but using childish pejorative taunts belies your assertion that you want to have an honest discussion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 12:38:26 PM

Quote from: utee94 on May 12, 2023, 11:56:02 AM

You can say whatever you like, but using childish pejorative taunts belies your assertion that you want to have an honest discussion.

No discussion was requested and it never is but should it be I will be more then happy to do so with no taunts

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 12, 2023, 12:44:57 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 12:38:26 PM

No discussion was requested and it never is but should it be I will be more then happy to do so with no taunts

If you commonly make statements that include "brandon" or "potted plant" then you're not inviting honest discussion.  How could any possibly ensue?

Like I said, you can refer to him however you like, but don't pretend you're open to honest debate when you tilt the discussion toward being a crap flinging contest before any meaningful words can be spoken at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 12:59:56 PM

Quote from: utee94 on May 12, 2023, 12:44:57 PM

If you commonly make statements that include "brandon" or "potted plant" then you're not inviting honest discussion.  How could any possibly ensue?

Like I said, you can refer to him however you like, but don't pretend you're open to honest debate when you tilt the discussion toward being a crap flinging contest before any meaningful words can be spoken at all.

yep youre right it very hard for me to refer to our current head of state without complete contempt

he is probably the worst Pres this country has ever seen

He has allowed the border to become nonexistent our inflation rate is higher then it ever has been

He has weaponized the FBI, IRS and DOJ to enfored his personal agenda

He is a continued embarrassment to this Country

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 12, 2023, 01:16:37 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 12:59:56 PM

yep youre right it very hard for me to refer to our current head of state without complete contempt

Then there's very little to be gained from discussing politics with you. It is going to be a crap throwing contest from the start. 

It's as productive as discussing politics with OAM, but just from the opposite side of the aisle. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 01:21:43 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 12, 2023, 01:16:37 PM

Then there's very little to be gained from discussing politics with you. It is going to be a crap throwing contest from the start.

It's as productive as discussing politics with OAM, but just from the opposite side of the aisle.

I understand your reluctance if youre a defender of our Presidents actions as you have nothing good to defend

He has accomplished absolutely nothing except to run this country into the ground

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 12, 2023, 01:48:20 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 12:59:56 PM

yep youre right it very hard for me to refer to our current head of state without complete contempt

he is probably the worst Pres this country has ever seen

He has allowed the border to become nonexistent our inflation rate is higher then it ever has been

He has weaponized the FBI, IRS and DOJ to enfored his personal agenda

He is a continued embarrassment to this Country

I don't think he's really in charge.

Worst? Lots of choices here.

For me, it's FDR. Sorry if that offends anyone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 12, 2023, 01:51:32 PM

It would be nice if we could discuss policy. But I would suppose that’s impossible because it’s so difficult to do that when so many policies are attributed to a political party.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 01:53:44 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 12:59:56 PM

He has allowed the border to become nonexistent our inflation rate is higher then it ever has been

These are factually untrue.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on May 12, 2023, 01:55:33 PM

I tend to lean agnostic on the topic of religion.  

I actually had to look up the real definition so I could make sure I know what it really means:
ag·nos·tic
 (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1UEAD_enUS988US988&sxsrf=APwXEdfAIP6pC3sNTru6eFAbysFamIMmfg:1683913848633&q=how+to+pronounce+agnostic&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOMIfcRoxS3w8sc9YSnDSWtOXmPU5uINKMrPK81LzkwsyczPExLhYglJLcoV4pHi4uJITM_LLy7JTLZiUWJKzeNZxCqZkV-uUJKvUADUkw_UlKoAUwIAooThTFsAAAA&pron_lang=en&pron_country=us&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiWtJ72q_D-AhVInGoFHQxZCLQQ3eEDegQIFxAI)
 (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1UEAD_enUS988US988&sxsrf=APwXEdfAIP6pC3sNTru6eFAbysFamIMmfg:1683913848633&q=how+to+pronounce+agnostic&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOMIfcRoxS3w8sc9YSnDSWtOXmPU5uINKMrPK81LzkwsyczPExLhYglJLcoV4pHi4uJITM_LLy7JTLZiUWJKzeNZxCqZkV-uUJKvUADUkw_UlKoAUwIAooThTFsAAAA&pron_lang=en&pron_country=us&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiWtJ72q_D-AhVInGoFHQxZCLQQ3eEDegQIFxAI)
noun

• a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1UEAD_enUS988US988&sxsrf=APwXEdfAIP6pC3sNTru6eFAbysFamIMmfg:1683913848633&q=phenomena&si=AMnBZoFEI0LGJdD1jElhAGFwRnmotkPbm59UwA-2xonn5pDQiHv3QVmAdwSbH61vD7ygpWtiYQ3ECGGgrnmrIfLh-5Olj296Bg%3D%3D&expnd=1); a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1UEAD_enUS988US988&sxsrf=APwXEdfAIP6pC3sNTru6eFAbysFamIMmfg:1683913848633&q=disbelief&si=AMnBZoFEI0LGJdD1jElhAGFwRnmoxLNkiwLTAcWQRqtCSKrY07cLsTWGggUExixDYGJas1aAXRYkaFq3ll3p84BFsueJCDzetQ%3D%3D&expnd=1) in God.

I think that all religions have a kernel of truth in them.  I think they started out one way, and then morphed into something else along the way.  


But there are some really, really smart people I know who are true believers in whatever their religion is.  Christian, Muslim, Buddha, Hindu.  Not like fake believers or people who end emails with a religious verse, but people who are very competent, humble, and successful people who you otherwise would not know are religious but if you get close to them they will tell you all about it in a genuine way.  They don't try to persuade you or convert you.  So that alone has affected my view of religion.  

I know there is more out there than what is in the teachings of man, and that includes religious text.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 12, 2023, 02:01:06 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 12, 2023, 01:51:32 PM

It would be nice if we could discuss policy. But I would suppose that’s impossible because it’s so difficult to do that when so many policies are attributed to a political party.

How about solutions to problems we know are real problems?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 12, 2023, 02:02:37 PM

These Are the 10 Most Overpriced Housing Markets in the U.S. — 5 Are in Florida (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/these-are-the-10-most-overpriced-housing-markets-in-the-u-s-5-are-in-florida/ss-AA18U0nJ?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=3d885d624622424690fcad51d151451b&ei=14)


They are only overpriced if nobody is buying them, right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 02:03:20 PM

We do actually have real problems obviously, and politicians generally know they can't touch them if they want to be reelected.  So, they gin up mostly fake problems, and don't solve them either, but pretend to try while blaming the others for stopping them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 12, 2023, 02:05:26 PM

They gin up problems after drinking gin.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 02:14:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 01:53:44 PM

These are factually untrue.

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 02:03:20 PM

We do actually have real problems obviously, and politicians generally know they can't touch them if they want to be reelected.  So, they gin up mostly fake problems, and don't solve them either, but pretend to try while blaming the others for stopping them.

Real problems

Southern Border 
Inflation Rate highest in over 40 years

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 12, 2023, 02:24:27 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 02:14:59 PM

Inflation Rate highest in over 40 years

just don't exaggerate like a Mofo and folks might like to discuss things

Potted plant is a similar exaggeration

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 02:31:08 PM

Inflation is primarily in the province of the Fed, though obviously it can be exacerbated by spending in excess of revenue.

Our overall immigration laws are ridiculous in many respects, spoken as one married to an immigrant and having seen what my two step kids have gone through to gain citizenship, legally of course.  To me. the concept of building some wall is ridiculous, as is banning Muslims.  Now, putting up a suitable barrier where it makes sense to do so is fine with me, but the folks coming in now basically turn themselves in and apply for asylum.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 12, 2023, 02:38:47 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 02:31:08 PM

Inflation is primarily in the province of the Fed, though obviously it can be exacerbated by spending in excess of revenue.

Our overall immigration laws are ridiculous in many respects, spoken as one married to an immigrant and having seen what my two step kids have gone through to gain citizenship, legally of course.  To me. the concept of building some wall is ridiculous, as is banning Muslims.  Now, putting up a suitable barrier where it makes sense to do so is fine with me, but the folks coming in now basically turn themselves in and apply for asylum.

The very many who are not caught or turning themselves in are the real problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 12, 2023, 02:48:46 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 02:14:59 PM

Southern Border

Can you articulate what a "secure border" means with some level of detail. 

I consistently hear people say they don't want to address immigration until we "secure the border". But what does that actually look like? 

What policy, if enacted, would satisfy you that the Southern border is secure? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 12, 2023, 03:31:43 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 12, 2023, 01:16:37 PM

Then there's very little to be gained from discussing politics with you. It is going to be a crap throwing contest from the start.

It's as productive as discussing politics with OAM, but just from the opposite side of the aisle.

I think OAM is a bit more shrill, but this is mostly correct.

Part of the reason people can’t seem to stop talking about politics is because it allows them an outlet for inflamed passions. We want to be passionate and mad more than we really want to discuss politics at all.

Because of their base, politics are often dry, random, boring and deathly complex. Take the border, all of the issues surrounding that are sprawling to insane degree.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 03:35:11 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 12, 2023, 02:24:27 PM

just don't exaggerate like a Mofo and folks might like to discuss things

Potted plant is a similar exaggeration

not by much

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 03:37:30 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 12, 2023, 02:48:46 PM

Can you articulate what a "secure border" means with some level of detail.

I consistently hear people say they don't want to address immigration until we "secure the border". But what does that actually look like?

What policy, if enacted, would satisfy you that the Southern border is secure?

stop letting everyone into our country free to go and do whatever they want

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 03:39:01 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 12, 2023, 03:31:43 PM

I think OAM is a bit more shrill, but this is mostly correct.

Part of the reason people can’t seem to stop talking about politics is because it allows them an outlet for inflamed passions. We want to be passionate and mad more than we really want to discuss politics at all.

Because of their base, politics are often dry, random, boring and deathly complex. Take the border, all of the issues surrounding that are sprawling to insane degree.

do you have any idea whats happening right now at the border

it is not a fundamental right to enter the USA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 03:46:55 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 03:39:01 PM

do you have any idea whats happening right now at the border

it is not a fundamental right to enter the USA

I doubt any of us do.  But our current immigration laws spell out legal means, which basically are "rights", for entering the USA.  One is to request asylum.  I personally have a right to enter the USA obviously and have done so many times.

The Administration CLAIMS entries are down today, whether I believe that entirely is another question.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 12, 2023, 04:08:56 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 03:37:30 PM

stop letting everyone into our country free to go and do whatever they want

I didn't ask you for a meaningless statement of goal. I asked you to articulate what a "secure Southern Border" looks like. HOW do we implement this to your satisfaction. 

I get that you want cake. I'm asking what ingredients you actually need and how do you prepare them such that you end up with the cake you want. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 12, 2023, 04:09:05 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 03:39:01 PM

it is not a fundamental right to enter the USA

well, that's just like, you're opinion, Dude

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 12, 2023, 04:09:50 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 11, 2023, 10:40:14 PM

I'd rather not lie to people though.

With the exception of that whopper

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 12, 2023, 04:11:39 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 08:35:32 AM

Anyway, in my view, the F and C words should not be written here.

Fargin' corkstuffer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 12, 2023, 04:19:22 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 12, 2023, 01:48:20 PM

I don't think he's really in charge.

Don't need Scotland Yard to spot that,has to be some decent old timers with something to say to someone

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 12, 2023, 04:24:39 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 12, 2023, 02:24:27 PM

just don't exaggerate like a Mofo and folks might like to discuss things

Potted plant is a similar exaggeration

FF this is the worst economy in my lifetime not even close. Carter things were a little rough but the Dems and Reps then could find some middle ground. Now both have eviscerated the middle class

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 12, 2023, 04:32:14 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 12, 2023, 04:08:56 PM

I didn't ask you for a meaningless statement of goal. I asked you to articulate what a "secure Southern Border" looks like. HOW do we implement this to your satisfaction.

I get that you want cake. I'm asking what ingredients you actually need and how do you prepare them such that you end up with the cake you want.

For me there are numerous parts including:

• An effective physical barrier (doesn't have to be a "wall" but has to be effective).
• An end to current "catch-and-release" policies where violators stay in the country and not incarcerated while their cases wait and wait and wait.
• An effective system for employers to verify the right of applicants to work here and stiff penalties for violators.
• An end to birthright citizenship.
• A MUCH better system to track and remove visa overstays.
• An absolute prohibition on taxpayer funded benefits for illegal aliens.
• An absolute end to federal funds for any purpose going to "sanctuary" cities/states/counties, etc.
• Enforcement of still existing statutes prohibiting entry by those likely to be a "public charge" and mandating removal of those aliens who become public charges.

That would be a good start.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 04:55:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 03:46:55 PM

I doubt any of us do.  But our current immigration laws spell out legal means, which basically are "rights", for entering the USA.  One is to request asylum.  I personally have a right to enter the USA obviously and have done so many times.

The Administration CLAIMS entries are down today, whether I believe that entirely is another question.

now youre just being silly

are you here illegally 

this is not about US citizens

we should limit the number of foreigners allowed in

right now we are not

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 05:00:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 03:46:55 PM

I doubt any of us do.  But our current immigration laws spell out legal means, which basically are "rights", for entering the USA.  One is to request asylum.  I personally have a right to enter the USA obviously and have done so many times.

The Administration CLAIMS entries are down today, whether I believe that entirely is another question.

its called requesting asylum which is not a right to enter

we are not obligated to allow anyone

Im not against having an annual quota as long as its established by congress

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 05:06:41 PM

For all you doubters

yes we have a big problem at our Southern Border

we are being invaded

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/gallery/2023/may/11/us-mexico-border-photos-title-42

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 12, 2023, 05:21:54 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 05:06:41 PM

For all you doubters

yes we have a big problem at our Southern Border

we are being invaded

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/gallery/2023/may/11/us-mexico-border-photos-title-42

My sense of this- besides that it is tragic for these people, is not that there are doubters.

We have been being told that either :
1.  This is not actually happening ( so the politicians and media who continue to say that are flat out lying.  “ don’t believe your eyes”)

or

2.  So what. Are you afraid of immigrants? They are mostly brown so that makes you racist. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on May 12, 2023, 06:19:45 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 12, 2023, 01:48:20 PM

I don't think he's really in charge.

Worst? Lots of choices here.

For me, it's FDR. Sorry if that offends anyone.

Wilson gives FDR a run for his money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on May 12, 2023, 06:25:18 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on May 12, 2023, 04:24:39 PM

FF this is the worst economy in my lifetime not even close. Carter things were a little rough but the Dems and Reps then could find some middle ground. Now both have eviscerated the middle class

Wow and you lived through the 70s & early 80s.  As much as I don't like the way the current economy is going right now, but with stagflation, oil shocks, poor monetary policies, incomptence of Carter presidency, Nixon's expansion of the nanny state, Ford's lame duck do nothing period by him or congress, etc. things were much worse. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 12, 2023, 08:35:22 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 05:00:37 PM

its called requesting asylum which is not a right to enter

we are not obligated to allow anyone

Im not against having an annual quota as long as its established by congress

annual quota AND a certain threshold for asylum

Definition:  a·sy·lum
noun

the protection granted by a nation to someone who has left their native country as a political refugee.
______________________________________________

not just because, or because they want a better standard of living
how many are REALLY running from their country's government or politicians?
did they try to overthrow the government or refuse to pay taxes?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 12, 2023, 08:39:30 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on May 12, 2023, 04:24:39 PM

FF this is the worst economy in my lifetime not even close. Carter things were a little rough but the Dems and Reps then could find some middle ground. Now both have eviscerated the middle class

I can't speak to Ohio, but it's not even close to the worst in Iowa, Nebraska, & South Dakota
interest rates, unemployment, and inflation was much worse during Carter and his aftermath
not during my lifetime perhaps, but my parents and their parents tell some stories
late 50s / early 60s were no picnic

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2023, 04:05:14 AM

I've lived through two economic periods much worse than this one, personally, and statistically.  The double dip recession in Reagan's early years was very painful, stagflation, interest rates well over 12%, high unemployment, and then of course 2008-9.  I can believe the economy in certain areas is bad today, certain regions and industries, but not generally.  Where we're headed could indeed be bad of course.  The Fed acted too late IMHO and is going at it now to make up for lost time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2023, 05:01:09 AM

Another ranking ... I was idly curious about what "city-like living" involves, and if it's a good thing, why don't folks just live IN a city, where this would be inherent?  As usual, the folks who rank such things don't live in all these cities,  they rely on some semi-arbitrary set of metrics.  I'm sure Palo Alto is a nice place to live, city-like or not, it's also very expensive of course.  I'm surprised La Jolla didn't make it.  But basically, if you have $$$$$$$$$$$, you can enjoy a life just about anywhere.  Or not, no guarantees.



(https://i.imgur.com/PKPg6fH.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2023, 06:26:53 AM

One GOP senator's fight to protect Social Security : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2023/05/12/1174761268/cassidy-social-security)

I was unaware of this outlined proposal, kudus to this Senator for wading in with an idea.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 13, 2023, 07:21:32 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 13, 2023, 05:01:09 AM

Another ranking ... I was idly curious about what "city-like living" involves, and if it's a good thing, why don't folks just live IN a city, where this would be inherent?  As usual, the folks who rank such things don't live in all these cities,  they rely on some semi-arbitrary set of metrics.  I'm sure Palo Alto is a nice place to live, city-like or not, it's also very expensive of course.  I'm surprised La Jolla didn't make it.  But basically, if you have $$$$$$$$$$$, you can enjoy a life just about anywhere.  Or not, no guarantees.



(https://i.imgur.com/PKPg6fH.png)

Vernon Hills and Burr Ridge do not belong on that list at all. Downers Grove, for sure.

Seems to me they named Vernon Hills when they meant Libertyville, and Hinsdale should be Burr Ridge.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 13, 2023, 07:22:34 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on May 12, 2023, 06:19:45 PM

Wilson gives FDR a run for his money

FDR wins that one. He had more time to Fleck things up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2023, 07:26:52 AM

I figure if one wants "city-like" living ... whatever.

"We" are addicted to rankings.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on May 13, 2023, 08:11:06 AM

You get to live like a sardine, without all the crime? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 13, 2023, 08:15:07 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 13, 2023, 07:26:52 AM

I figure if one wants "city-like" living ... whatever.

"We" are addicted to rankings.

Vernon Hills and Burr Ridge are not city living.

A huge "lifestyle mall" does not do that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 13, 2023, 08:46:10 AM

This is not satire.

Biden nominee backs US-funded border wall in Jordan ‘to provide physical security’ (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-nominee-backs-us-funded-border-wall-in-jordan-to-provide-physical-security/ar-AA1aNE9b)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2023, 08:51:37 AM

I thought I had some notion of what city living comprises, and I've been through Sewanee, GA a few times.  It's pretty upscale and they've done a nice job with their "downtown", but it's clearly suburbia.  Anyway ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 13, 2023, 09:14:36 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 13, 2023, 05:01:09 AM

[img width=500 height=473.993]https://i.imgur.com/PKPg6fH.png[/img]

Edina is very nice, from May until October
about 5 months

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 13, 2023, 09:16:31 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 13, 2023, 08:51:37 AM

I thought I had some notion of what city living comprises, and I've been through Sewanee, GA a few times.  It's pretty upscale and they've done a nice job with their "downtown", but it's clearly suburbia.  Anyway ...

well, it is the 20 best suburbs
not cities

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2023, 09:20:59 AM

Best Suburbs for City-Like Living (storagecafe.com) (https://www.storagecafe.com/blog/best-suburbs-for-city-like-living/)

To see where people can find the right mix of amenities to support a modern lifestyle, we’ve set out to identify the best US suburbs with urban flair. We’ve analyzed 912 cities with populations between 10K and 100K in the 100 largest metropolitan areas and looked at several factors including:

• Residential landscape: housing affordability, new construction and housing diversity (single-family, multifamily homes)
• Demographics
• Business environment
• Shopping and dining amenities
• Health
• Education
• Safety
• Transportation options
• Self storage prices and availability as a way to maximize home space

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 13, 2023, 09:23:18 AM

Self storage prices and availability as a way to maximize home space

Much more important than climate

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 13, 2023, 09:25:02 AM

Nuclear Submarine Officer recalls when his submarine had to do an emergency deep dive after the periscope came up inside a cardboard box while the boat was coming to periscope depth

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/nuclear-submarine-officer-recalls-when-his-submarine-had-to-do-an-emergency-deep-dive-after-the-periscope-came-up-inside-a-cardboard-box-while-the-boat-was-coming-to-periscope-depth/ (https://theaviationgeekclub.com/nuclear-submarine-officer-recalls-when-his-submarine-had-to-do-an-emergency-deep-dive-after-the-periscope-came-up-inside-a-cardboard-box-while-the-boat-was-coming-to-periscope-depth/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 13, 2023, 09:40:10 AM

These Florida Towns Are Home To Some Of The Best Downtowns In The State (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/tripideas/these-florida-towns-are-home-to-some-of-the-best-downtowns-in-the-state/ar-AA1b6RTM?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=300bb51556264f26a0ecfd03864c74cc&ei=5)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 13, 2023, 09:42:48 AM

well, if they weren't Florida towns, they wouldn't be in the state!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 13, 2023, 09:45:41 AM

I've been to a few of those. They're OK I guess.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 13, 2023, 09:46:04 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 13, 2023, 09:23:18 AM

Self storage prices and availability as a way to maximize home space

Much more important than climate

Yeah, I'm sure some folks find certain areas of Edina MN walkable...

...if it's not too cold to go outside. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 13, 2023, 09:47:25 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 13, 2023, 09:46:04 AM

Yeah, I'm sure some folks find certain areas of Edina MN walkable...

...if it's not too cold to go outside.

Edina reminds me of Glencoe, IL, without the Great Lake.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 13, 2023, 09:52:50 AM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/344848917_539375581735913_6904579866331037193_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=6e_7okx1umcAX_LePML&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDFJTaFkdmaqo-9o1Pz-DITrixDWlATPxw0pZv2zY4Y6A&oe=6463EE25)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2023, 11:11:52 AM

I've been to Denver a few times, it does not remind me of the ATL, at all.  The racial mix of the city of Atlanta is changing fairly rapidly now ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 13, 2023, 12:51:17 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 13, 2023, 09:40:10 AM

These Florida Towns Are Home To Some Of The Best Downtowns In The State (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/tripideas/these-florida-towns-are-home-to-some-of-the-best-downtowns-in-the-state/ar-AA1b6RTM?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=300bb51556264f26a0ecfd03864c74cc&ei=5)

My town, Stuart is on that list. 

it is a fun downtown- waterfront with numerous places to eat, drink or shop.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2023, 03:17:45 PM

If you are at a stop light and a fire truck roars up behind you laying on the horn, what do you do?

1.  Wait for the light to turn green and obey the law.
2.  Move through the intersection to get out of the way (taking care nobody is crossing under their green.)

We live in a position where I get to witness Choice 1 fairly often, I can hear the horn from my office easily enough.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 13, 2023, 03:50:26 PM

number 2 if you can do so safely

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 13, 2023, 04:34:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 13, 2023, 03:17:45 PM

If you are at a stop light and a fire truck roars up behind you laying on the horn, what do you do?

1.  Wait for the light to turn green and obey the law.
2.  Move through the intersection to get out of the way (taking care nobody is crossing under their green.)

We live in a position where I get to witness Choice 1 fairly often, I can hear the horn from my office easily enough.

I’ll try for 2, but it’s so situation dependent. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 13, 2023, 05:11:36 PM

I've found the emergency vehicle drivers are typically smart enough to move into the oncoming lane of traffic with sirens and horns blaring, to get past stuck traffic at an intersection.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 13, 2023, 05:11:58 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on May 12, 2023, 06:25:18 PM

Wow and you lived through the 70s & early 80s.  As much as I don't like the way the current economy is going right now, but with stagflation, oil shocks, poor monetary policies, incomptence of Carter presidency, Nixon's expansion of the nanny state, Ford's lame duck do nothing period by him or congress, etc. things were much worse.

Not even close you must have enough stashed away in your portfolio you don't feel the crunch. Good for you - that's not a slam but cars/carparts utilities for starters have sky rocketed These use to be regulated,ya know as reasonably as can be expected. There use to be laws about monoplies just look at the cable/internet/phone companies it's AT&T around here and 3-4 companies under their umbrella. I'm all for healthy profits and competition but it's hardly that any more .Recently last 6-7 yrs NG companies started this delivery charge at 35.00 a month fee,on gas lines that the public paid for in the 1st place. Paying over 400.00 annually because their friends in legislature got it passed - the system is so broke and corrupted The cost of living is outpacing the Blue collar midlle class income. And as the song says - "I'm frightened by those who don't see it"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 13, 2023, 05:17:45 PM

Food and basic necessities seem to be more expensive than ever, even normalized for inflation, but I haven't seen any current statistics to back that up.  Just my own perception.

I'm fortunate to have enough resources to where I don't feel the bite, but there are many who are struggling with these costs right now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2023, 05:23:17 PM

Quote from: utee94 on May 13, 2023, 05:11:36 PM

I've found the emergency vehicle drivers are typically smart enough to move into the oncoming lane of traffic with sirens and horns blaring, to get past stuck traffic at an intersection.

This is a one way street 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 13, 2023, 05:30:52 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 13, 2023, 09:42:48 AM

well, if they weren't Florida towns, they wouldn't be in the state!

You should be charging for this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 13, 2023, 05:50:59 PM

Quote from: utee94 on May 13, 2023, 05:17:45 PM

Food and basic necessities seem to be more expensive than ever, even normalized for inflation, but I haven't seen any current statistics to back that up.  Just my own perception.

You have good perception weed hopper - you get a Yuengling

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2023, 07:26:30 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 03:37:30 PM

stop letting everyone into our country free to go and do whatever they want

How articulate and precise.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2023, 07:29:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 08:35:32 AM

I made a decision to stop "cussing" a while back.  I figure if I can't make a point without using the "F" word every third word, I'm pretty incompetent.  It doesn't offend me, though in my view, it makes one's argument less impactful and more puerile.  As for religion, we all have our beliefs generally not based purely on logic, and thus is not really subject to argument.  I have zero desire to make light of another's religious beliefs (there could be an exception for the truly weird ones).  I don't think others should either, at least not here.  I don't think it possible to argue in print that one should or should not adhere to some major religion.  Usually, "we" adopt whatever religion was in proximity to our childhood and culture.  Often, a person rebels against that, as noted, and goes to the other extreme.  It's akin to the person who stopped smoking and started working out, they can get obnoxious, for no reason.

Anyway, in my view, the F and C words should not be written here.

I thought we were adults.  
Why have words you can't say?  If they're words that convey meaning that you understand, then we should use them.
No one is saying "fuck" every third word.  Straw man.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2023, 07:32:09 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 12, 2023, 10:26:03 AM

I have no problems discussing politics as long as its an honest discussion and not a crap throwing contest

I really wish we would leave religion alone as its a very personal issue

It SHOULD be.
But then President Bush acknowledged praying about what to do (WTFFFFF?!?!).
Countless lawmakers base proposed legislation on their religions (ie - Christian) beliefs.
.
I 100% agree with your intent here, but it's demonstrably incorrect in reality.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 13, 2023, 08:37:28 PM

I haven't allowed past Pres Bush or other countless lawmakers influence my beliefs 

those that do need a rudder

probably for more than just religion and might not have the backbone to vote

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2023, 09:20:41 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 13, 2023, 08:37:28 PM

I haven't allowed past Pres Bush or other countless lawmakers influence my beliefs

those that do need a rudder

probably for more than just religion and might not have the backbone to vote

It's not about influence, it's about our leaders purposely setting aside their reason and consulting an invisible man in the sky.
That is obviously a problem.  Doesn't matter which president or representatives they are, it's a problem.

You wouldn't be cool with the president consulting a magic 8 ball, would you?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 13, 2023, 09:32:53 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2023, 09:20:41 PM

It's not about influence, it's about our leaders purposely setting aside their reason and consulting an invisible man in the sky.
That is obviously a problem.  Doesn't matter which president or representatives they are, it's a problem.

You wouldn't be cool with the president consulting a magic 8 ball, would you? 

Hell yeah

beats what we have now

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on May 13, 2023, 10:29:07 PM

XFL poised to crown a sub 500 team XFL champions!.  Lol

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 13, 2023, 11:32:04 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on May 13, 2023, 10:29:07 PM

XFL poised to crown a sub 500 team XFL champions!.  Lol

entertainment > competition

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 14, 2023, 08:22:59 AM

Quote from: utee94 on May 13, 2023, 05:11:36 PM

I've found the emergency vehicle drivers are typically smart enough to move into the oncoming lane of traffic with sirens and horns blaring, to get past stuck traffic at an intersection.

Yep. Always this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 14, 2023, 09:19:05 AM

We have a fire station three blocks south and they often run north on a 3 lane one way street which has a T intersection with a two way street with a light.  Further north it is two way, but at that light heading north, traffic often builds up a bit and the trucks can't get through if the light is red and cars sit there.  They lean on their horn and eventually the light turns green or maybe the cars pull through the red light and out of the way.

It will get more interesting in a couple years because they plan to turn the 3 lanes into 2 lanes with a bike lane.  Ideally the trucks could flip the traffic lights as needed by radio.  One of the trucks is a large hook and ladder deal with a driver in the rear of it steering the back end.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 14, 2023, 09:54:51 AM

what they need is a V-plow on the front end

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 14, 2023, 10:00:20 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 14, 2023, 09:54:51 AM

what they need is a V-plow on the front end

The payouts would not be ideal. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 14, 2023, 10:12:17 AM

city should be exempt from damage
blocking emergency vehicles

give it to the insurance company

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/77/15/f8/7715f8f93d9479be8e072ba11fe34b0c.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 14, 2023, 10:58:32 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 14, 2023, 10:12:17 AM

city should be exempt from damage
blocking emergency vehicles

give it to the insurance company

This would lead to a whole lot of trouble. (Do you mean the city's insurance?)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 14, 2023, 11:18:20 AM

nope, dumb individual's personal insurance

get out da way!!!  Honk, Honk!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 14, 2023, 11:52:29 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 14, 2023, 11:18:20 AM

nope, dumb individual's personal insurance

get out da way!!!  Honk, Honk!

In an imaginary world, that would be fun I suppose. Thankfully, the system we have now is probably for the best.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 14, 2023, 12:10:43 PM

Fearless with the problem and a solution. Love it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 14, 2023, 12:28:14 PM

the system we have now says it's illegal to impede emergency services vehicles.
says you must yield and pull to the side of the road
probably for the best

those that do not, should be liable for what happens

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 14, 2023, 01:01:03 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 14, 2023, 12:28:14 PM

the system we have now says it's illegal to impede emergency services vehicles.
says you must yield and pull to the side of the road
probably for the best

those that do not, should be liable for what happens

And most people do that. As a mostly dumb society, we are shockingly good at letting emergency vehicles get to places.

But if we give emergency vehicles Carte blanch to start launching cars out of the way, we’re gonna end up with some Cowboys who do it just because it’s cool. That will have to be adjudicated. We will also end up with collateral damage as one car gets knocked into another which gets knocked into another. On balance. everyone we get to pay more for car insurance, because there is a dangerous and unpredictable threat on the road. And all to address a problem that we are relatively good at working through.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 14, 2023, 01:27:22 PM

I like my imaginary world

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 14, 2023, 02:43:06 PM

Are fire engines gonna go EV?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 14, 2023, 04:15:21 PM

I had thought heavier vehicles might go to fuel cells, and we'd have truck stops dispensing hydrogen for them.  Cars would be EVs and we'd have charging stations for them.

This would be a "ways" off of course.  I've heard some folks who apparently think if all new cars are EVs in 2035, it means all cars total would magically be EVs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 14, 2023, 05:08:18 PM

Barring any untoward development, the Resident Genius World Headquarters will be moving in mid June. The Mrs and I looked at a house last Thursday and put in an offer, not even allowing ourselves to date think we won the bid. Our realtor called this morning and told us that they had accepted our offer, and it's been a blur ever since. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 14, 2023, 05:16:11 PM

Corngrats

still in Gooopher country?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 14, 2023, 05:28:26 PM

Yup. Northern suburbs, basically 20 minutes due north of where we are currently, in an area that we wanted from the outset. Very few houses at any price point are for sale there, we feel incredibly fortunate. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 14, 2023, 07:12:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 14, 2023, 02:43:06 PM

Are fire engines gonna go EV?

While they could as they rarely travel high mileage, I don't know that they contribute enough to emissions to make that a high priority. B/C they rarely travel high mileage.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 14, 2023, 11:02:00 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on May 14, 2023, 05:28:26 PM

Yup. Northern suburbs, basically 20 minutes due north of where we are currently, in an area that we wanted from the outset. Very few houses at any price point are for sale there, we feel incredibly fortunate.

Congrats,Juicey Lucey's all around - You'll need a heater and a somewhat Big Screen in the Garage. Won't need a cooler where you're at during the season

PS I'd appreciate it if you didn't rig the contest for some so called poor dirt farmer. Don't be getting his hopes up he cheers for the bugeaters ya know - that would just be mean

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 15, 2023, 07:17:28 AM

Best large US cities to start a business in 2023 | Fox Business (https://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/best-large-us-cities-start-business-2023)

I wonder how much it really matters versus having a sound business plan and idea and decent capital.  And then there is the neighborhood situation where you locate.  I'd bet a good idea in the right area of Detroit is better than a weak idea in Miami.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 15, 2023, 07:56:29 AM

Florida dominated that "list".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 15, 2023, 08:13:53 AM

Yup, growing fast, no state income tax, tourism, a lot of positives in the state.  I'd rather have a great idea in Buffalo than a lousy idea in Florida though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 15, 2023, 08:19:19 AM

I am pretty harsh on restaurants in general but we tried a new place last night for M's Day and it was excellent, I was surprised.  It's part of a small group of restaurants, we go to two of the others fairly often and they are solid, and closer, this one is about a mile away (we walked).  They have a nice menu, we did appetizers only (and wine).  Service was excellent, ambiance very good, food interesting.  It was about $100 for two before I got that second bottle of wine ...

Midtown | Hours & Location | Ecco Atlanta, GA (ecco-atlanta.com) (https://www.ecco-atlanta.com/midtown-hours-and-location/)

(https://i.imgur.com/SVNLVH9.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 15, 2023, 08:31:12 AM

50 bucks a head is my kinda place

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 15, 2023, 08:35:28 AM

That includes one $42 bottle of rose' and a charcuterie board.  We could easily have stopped there really, they had some good bread.  Another in that group is called South City Kitchen which is more "southern" in a way, and Lure which is seafood, both closer to us.    I like that they are different and not some large chain.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 15, 2023, 08:54:18 AM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/346648555_755997439342441_2914294247030452593_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=auPSv1tQMEkAX8UgfmR&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAj70N_nEzHd93_Ont4be7-BDI_4iB7bFWRy8AB4A_GeQ&oe=6466DAA7)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 15, 2023, 09:01:19 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/0JxTlff.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 15, 2023, 10:31:33 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 15, 2023, 08:54:18 AM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/346648555_755997439342441_2914294247030452593_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=auPSv1tQMEkAX8UgfmR&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAj70N_nEzHd93_Ont4be7-BDI_4iB7bFWRy8AB4A_GeQ&oe=6466DAA7)

(https://i.imgur.com/fSIbmSW.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 15, 2023, 11:49:11 AM

Jimmy Crack Corn?  I don't care.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 15, 2023, 12:39:56 PM

Southwest border encounters see early drop following end of Title 42 | The Hill (https://thehill.com/latino/4004866-southwest-border-encounters-see-early-drop-following-end-of-title-42/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 15, 2023, 01:09:38 PM

Quote from: utee94 on May 15, 2023, 10:31:33 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/fSIbmSW.png)

Posted before I had to. Thanks for that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 15, 2023, 01:17:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 15, 2023, 12:39:56 PM

Southwest border encounters see early drop following end of Title 42 | The Hill (https://thehill.com/latino/4004866-southwest-border-encounters-see-early-drop-following-end-of-title-42/)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlN-dT08yUE

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 15, 2023, 01:23:18 PM

Title 42 ended with Democrats' whimper (msnbc.com) (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/title-42-ended-democrats-whimper-rcna84167)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 15, 2023, 04:14:12 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/345595066_2033828793632869_3342450700230477982_n.png?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=GfFSpQ6fQioAX_Uwnph&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBIn1uwi7zS1jOgfFloH5uBZPZO5Z0C6ZZHkeabIRrS_A&oe=64669BD9)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 15, 2023, 04:16:41 PM

Word.  Everyone should move to Florida!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 15, 2023, 04:18:42 PM

everyone wants to live next to Scott Baio

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 15, 2023, 04:19:03 PM

Quote from: utee94 on May 15, 2023, 04:16:41 PM

Word.  Everyone should move to Florida!

Not everyone.

I have a vetting process for people who buy on our street. Just a little inquisition is all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 15, 2023, 04:19:28 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 15, 2023, 04:18:42 PM

everyone wants to live next to Scott Baio

Everyone loves Chachi?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 15, 2023, 04:21:01 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 15, 2023, 01:17:32 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlN-dT08yUE

Someone is lying.   Hmmmm…..

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 15, 2023, 04:24:05 PM

https://www.cnn.com/


We are all used to it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 15, 2023, 04:39:21 PM

So... It took 4 years to come up with conclusions that we've known for 7 years.

Durham report sharply criticizes FBI’s 2016 probe of Trump campaign (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/durham-report-sharply-criticizes-fbi-s-2016-probe-of-trump-campaign/ar-AA1be0jE?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=7eaafcbb6b1a4bccaccbc719150a1930&ei=8)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 15, 2023, 04:44:01 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 15, 2023, 04:19:03 PM

Not everyone.

I have a vetting process for people who buy on our street. Just a little inquisition is all.

(https://i.imgur.com/7lCZ2g8.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 15, 2023, 04:44:29 PM

if the government wasn't wasting time and money on that goose chase, they'd just be wasting it on something else

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 16, 2023, 06:21:47 AM

Non-existent ‘border surge’ scrambles immigration politics (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4005437-the-memo-non-existent-border-surge-scrambles-immigration-politics/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 16, 2023, 08:59:32 AM

OK if it scrambles it into actually doing something

I'm not sure why the issue can't be addressed

of course they can't seem to address the budget and debt-ceiling until it's too late

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 16, 2023, 09:02:06 AM

I often think such issues as immigration won't be "solved", or even addressed, because both parties benefit from having it as a wedge issue.  I can think of all sorts of compromises neither would accept.  It would damage their fund raising.  Same with the debt ceiling, and many other things like gun control.  Wedge issues = $$$$$$$$$$$$

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 16, 2023, 09:10:08 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 16, 2023, 09:02:06 AM

I often think such issues as immigration won't be "solved", or even addressed, because both parties benefit from having it as a wedge issue.  I can think of all sorts of compromises neither would accept.  It would damage their fund raising.  Same with the debt ceiling, and many other things like gun control.  Wedge issues = $$$$$$$$$$$$

Abortion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 16, 2023, 09:13:13 AM

even the supreme court punted that one back to the states

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 16, 2023, 09:14:27 AM

the lazy losers in Washington really don't want to do anything except get reelected.

It can't be good for the country

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 16, 2023, 09:19:55 AM

Yes, the game is reelection.  I'm still amazed at all the 70+ year olds running for reelection each time, some of them clearly way past prime.  They thrive on the power and status, if they retired, they be a nobody (like me).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 16, 2023, 09:24:08 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 16, 2023, 09:13:13 AM

even the supreme court punted that one back to the states

Not based on their thoughts on the subject, mind you. It was overturned because it was an unconstitutional decision in the first place. Even RBG admitted this.

Congress could codify it. But it won't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 16, 2023, 09:29:51 AM

That's why mandatory retirement age is going to work far better than term limits.

As for the Dobbs decision, ask Republicans how it feels to be the dog who catches the car. Especially in Michigan. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 16, 2023, 09:30:56 AM

I don't see any realistic prospect for age limits and Congress.  Or term limits.  Or much of anything.  The "Compact of the States" to basically sidestep the EC could happen in a few years, that would be epic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 16, 2023, 09:31:45 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on May 16, 2023, 09:29:51 AM

That's why mandatory retirement age is going to work far better than term limits.

is???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 16, 2023, 09:33:36 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 16, 2023, 09:19:55 AM

Yes, the game is reelection.  I'm still amazed at all the 70+ year olds running for reelection each time, some of them clearly way past prime.  They thrive on the power and status, if they retired, they be a nobody (like me).

reminds me of the 70+ musicians still on tour at small venues such as casinos
clearly way past prime

but, they'd be nobody otherwise

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 16, 2023, 09:36:11 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on May 16, 2023, 09:29:51 AM

That's why mandatory retirement age is going to work far better than term limits.

As for the Dobbs decision, ask Republicans how it feels to be the dog who catches the car. Especially in Michigan.

This is necessary how?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 16, 2023, 09:38:36 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 16, 2023, 06:21:47 AM

Non-existent ‘border surge’ scrambles immigration politics (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4005437-the-memo-non-existent-border-surge-scrambles-immigration-politics/)

Scrambles? I guess we’re back to egg talk

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 16, 2023, 09:41:36 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 16, 2023, 09:36:11 AM

This is necessary how?

yes, I don't care about their feelings

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 16, 2023, 11:11:58 AM

Quote from: utee94 on May 15, 2023, 04:16:41 PM

Word.  Everyone should move to Florida!

And Texas. I’m told those are the popular states. The bells of the ball. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 16, 2023, 11:18:11 AM

The more the merrier, so long as they get past the Badger Inquisition. ;)

States People Are Fleeing And States People Are Moving To – Forbes Home (https://www.forbes.com/home-improvement/features/states-move-to-from/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 16, 2023, 12:01:22 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 16, 2023, 11:18:11 AM

The more the merrier, so long as they get past the Badger Inquisition. ;)

States People Are Fleeing And States People Are Moving To – Forbes Home (https://www.forbes.com/home-improvement/features/states-move-to-from/)

The answer to said inquisition: “this is America. I’ll do what I want.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 16, 2023, 12:03:07 PM

I don't think we can do anything we want.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 16, 2023, 12:26:57 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 16, 2023, 12:03:07 PM

I don't think we can do anything we want.

Not anything, but in relationship to our neighbors’ feelings, we can do most things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 16, 2023, 12:31:34 PM

I walked around today (3 miles) looking at construction and had a nice chat with one older fellow working one site whose name is "Grover Cleveland".  He had retired but they asked him to come back. He was sweeping with a broom when I strolled up, nice fellow.  He said his son was one of the site supers.

I have some photos but they won't post for some reason...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 16, 2023, 12:32:39 PM

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.skyscrapercity.com/attachments/1684253640334-png.5146069/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 16, 2023, 12:34:12 PM

supposedly building a skyscraper in Lincoln

you know, 20 or 30 stories

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 16, 2023, 12:37:27 PM

Can't do a skyscraper in Madison. Nothing can be taller than the Capitol building. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 16, 2023, 12:40:27 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 16, 2023, 12:37:27 PM

Can't do a skyscraper in Madison. Nothing can be taller than the Capitol building.

They had limits like that in Austin too but finally reversed them 30-40 years ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 16, 2023, 12:46:14 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 16, 2023, 12:37:27 PM

Can't do a skyscraper in Madison. Nothing can be taller than the Capitol building.

NIMBYs!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 16, 2023, 12:53:01 PM

DC has some rule of that ilk, maybe the same one.  Paris sort of has that as a rule but with two major exceptions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 16, 2023, 12:58:26 PM

the penis of the prairie is 398′ to tip

(https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/lincoln-ne-may-20-2022-260nw-2170530145.jpg)

about 37 stories

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 16, 2023, 01:06:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 16, 2023, 12:37:27 PM

Can't do a skyscraper in Madison. Nothing can be taller than the Capitol building.

Typical politicians. 

'Course, if they rephrased it to be "nothing can be taller than our egos", you could build a space elevator. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 16, 2023, 01:20:24 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/z1lBBwQ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 16, 2023, 02:48:19 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/lABMnfY.jpg)

Looking south from the top of the Four Seasons (not my photos) ...

(https://i.imgur.com/SEIan3Q.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 17, 2023, 11:36:55 AM

A new Atlanta high rise is offering 400 sq. foot units for $1,600 and it's sparking a buzz on social media

New Atlanta high-rise offering 400 sq. foot units for $1,600 sparks buzz on social media – WSB-TV Channel 2 - Atlanta (wsbtv.com) (https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/new-atlanta-highrise-offering-400-sq-foot-units-1600-sparks-buzz-social-media/4WSBI7MALNCRFGJBULIBAJ7ZUM/?fbclid=IwAR3EJaayD1_mGRQo7yL7AZ67UC51mYbv7w4HxRh0KrvzjIeoRBWHNv04GNc)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 17, 2023, 11:38:50 AM

I don't need much, but 20x20 isn't enuff

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 17, 2023, 11:41:45 AM

It's a hotel room, in effect, with a tiny kitchenette, like long stay places.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 17, 2023, 11:42:41 AM

that's not a very big hotel room

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 17, 2023, 11:42:58 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/UIH0EJQ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 17, 2023, 12:32:13 PM

Supreme Court leaves Illinois assault weapons ban in place | The Hill (https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4002225-supreme-court-leaves-illinois-assault-weapons-ban-in-place/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 17, 2023, 01:01:22 PM

Media Admits They Lied About That Russia Collusion Thing But Are Totally Telling The Truth About Everything Else | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/media-admits-they-lied-about-that-russia-collusion-thing-but-are-totally-telling-the-truth-about-everything-else?utm_source=The Babylon Bee)

:s_laugh:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 17, 2023, 01:23:15 PM

Music Midtown returning to Piedmont Park after canceling last year’s festival – WSB-TV Channel 2 - Atlanta (wsbtv.com) (https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/music-midtown-returning-piedmont-park-after-canceling-last-years-festival/KKJANTMKOFAP5IZSWB6DXELSNE/?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR36WBK122636WRMjVFHwXtUGwxN9Y75QiakbwNvsr2s-YvUBKDn1lA7p8E)

The presale for 3-Day and limited 1-Day General Admission, GA+, VIP, and Super VIP tickets will begin Thursday at 10 a.m. at www.musicmidtown.com (https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.musicmidtown.com__;!!F8-Dj6fVkZI!dcQQH_d2xiUu29xGJUQ3-TTy2M6Eo5MX_zsX1AxPc7V3kXTXadOybOiPwCIHDUalsI50zJWiw7nsb0o$). The remaining tickets will go on sale to the general public at a later date.

General admission tickets start at $350 before fees. Here is the full lineup.

WUT!?!?!?!?!?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 17, 2023, 01:28:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 16, 2023, 06:21:47 AM

Non-existent ‘border surge’ scrambles immigration politics (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4005437-the-memo-non-existent-border-surge-scrambles-immigration-politics/)

More smoking mirrors from our President



https://thedailybs.com/2023/05/16/fact-checking-biden-admins-claim-that-illegal-immigration-drops-with-end-of-title-42/?utm_campaign=james&utm_content=5-17-23%20Daily%20Bo%20AM&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_source=Get%20response&utm_term=email

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 17, 2023, 01:45:52 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 17, 2023, 01:23:15 PM

Music Midtown returning to Piedmont Park after canceling last year’s festival – WSB-TV Channel 2 - Atlanta (wsbtv.com) (https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/music-midtown-returning-piedmont-park-after-canceling-last-years-festival/KKJANTMKOFAP5IZSWB6DXELSNE/?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR36WBK122636WRMjVFHwXtUGwxN9Y75QiakbwNvsr2s-YvUBKDn1lA7p8E)

The presale for 3-Day and limited 1-Day General Admission, GA+, VIP, and Super VIP tickets will begin Thursday at 10 a.m. at www.musicmidtown.com (https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.musicmidtown.com__;!!F8-Dj6fVkZI!dcQQH_d2xiUu29xGJUQ3-TTy2M6Eo5MX_zsX1AxPc7V3kXTXadOybOiPwCIHDUalsI50zJWiw7nsb0o$). The remaining tickets will go on sale to the general public at a later date.

General admission tickets start at $350 before fees. Here is the full lineup.

WUT!?!?!?!?!?

Are you surprised at the price of tickets?  If so, you should understand that just single-bill concerts are now going for well over $100/ticket.  So festivals with 3 days and numerous headliners per day, are commonly selling for $300-$500.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 17, 2023, 01:55:25 PM

I'm shocked, frankly.  I can sit on our balcony and listen to it if I want for free.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 17, 2023, 01:57:45 PM

You don't want to know what two tickets to Adele in Vegas set me back, then... :03:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 17, 2023, 02:09:06 PM

I'm old and out of touch.  I was aghast when season symphony tickets went to $100 per for the balcony.  That's a six set series for two of us.  I moved us up to the second balcony, first row, which actually is pretty decent.  Still expensive.

We were comped premium tickets in Cincinnati to the concert, which was excellent.  I'm sure they were pricey, we sat with the maestro's wife.  She and my wife spoke French much of the time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 17, 2023, 02:12:01 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 17, 2023, 01:57:45 PM

You don't want to know what two tickets to Adele in Vegas set me back, then... :03:

Rolling Stones tickets were north of $350 for GA when they came to town last year.  I'm sure Vegas prices blow that away.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 17, 2023, 02:12:20 PM

Quote from: utee94 on May 15, 2023, 04:16:41 PM

Word.  Everyone should move to Florida!

they should move to Texas instead. It's getting too crazy here. I motion to deport all the Canadians, New Yorkers, and New Jerseyites. 

Could be worse though....we could be getting loads of Californians like Texas....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 17, 2023, 02:13:54 PM

Quote from: utee94 on May 17, 2023, 02:12:01 PM

Rolling Stones tickets were north of $350 for GA when they came to town last year.  I'm sure Vegas prices blow that away.

kinda shocked those old farts are still alive....especially Keith Richards. The amount of alcohol and drugs that guy has consumed in his life could've wiped out entire small towns. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 17, 2023, 02:14:34 PM

When I was a student, I volunteered for a while to "usher" at concerts we had (which were free anyway).  I remember the Beach Boys did one.  There was a place called B&L Warehouse that had two stages at each end and music all night every night, and on Tuesday quarter beer.  (Not good beer, but beer.)

Youth is wasted on the young.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 17, 2023, 02:15:23 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 17, 2023, 02:09:06 PM

We were comped premium tickets in Cincinnati to the concert, which was excellent.  I'm sure they were pricey, we sat with the maestro's wife.  She and my wife spoke French much of the time.

hoity-toity

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 17, 2023, 02:18:38 PM

I saw the Stones in the stadium in Ames back in 89.
Ticket was expensive back then, maybe $50.  maybe not, don't recall

Keith was old then

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 17, 2023, 02:20:45 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 17, 2023, 02:13:54 PM

kinda shocked those old farts are still alive....especially Keith Richards. The amount of alcohol and drugs that guy has consumed in his life could've wiped out entire small towns.

Only the good die young.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 17, 2023, 02:39:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 17, 2023, 02:09:06 PM

I'm old and out of touch.  I was aghast when season symphony tickets went to $100 per for the balcony.  That's a six set series for two of us.  I moved us up to the second balcony, first row, which actually is pretty decent.  Still expensive.

We were comped premium tickets in Cincinnati to the concert, which was excellent.  I'm sure they were pricey, we sat with the maestro's wife.  She and my wife spoke French much of the time.

We have tickets for our local theater, and the new season works out to be about $100 per show per ticket. Granted, we're in the orchestra section, not the balcony... It did go up from our previous season because we're moving to a weekend matinee package from weeknight package. 

We're going to see Chicago tomorrow night, in fact. Should be good as neither of us have seen it. 

Quote from: utee94 on May 17, 2023, 02:12:01 PM

Rolling Stones tickets were north of $350 for GA when they came to town last year.  I'm sure Vegas prices blow that away.

Yeah, it's nuts. Adele only does 2 shows a weekend. When she did her first run my wife and I both signed up for the ticket lottery, and neither were chosen. I kept monitoring tickets on the secondary market but it was pretty much over $800 to get in the door. 

For this second run, though, I got in with a pretty early place in the queue to buy face-value tickets. Even so, the super-cheap nosebleeds were already gone and the rest of the nosebleeds were over 300 not counting fees. The upcharge to "pretty decent" tickets was not astronomical compared to the low 300s, so I ended up moving forward a decent amount. And I thought the tickets were pretty reasonable, up until the 20+% in fees was tacked on! Effing Ticketmaster! :96:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 17, 2023, 02:49:43 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 17, 2023, 02:12:20 PM

they should move to Texas instead. It's getting too crazy here. I motion to deport all the Canadians, New Yorkers, and New Jerseyites.

Could be worse though....we could be getting loads of Californians like Texas....

I was in Palm Beach last week. I think more and more are moving to Florida permanently, and not going back and forth.

Traffic there was just as bad as over here. Maybe just a little worse.

Much different than in 2021, when things got really light for 6 months. We have some relief now, but not like 2 years ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 17, 2023, 02:50:25 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 17, 2023, 02:13:54 PM

kinda shocked those old farts are still alive....especially Keith Richards. The amount of alcohol and drugs that guy has consumed in his life could've wiped out entire small towns.

When you can buy complete blood transfusions, you can live long no matter what you do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 17, 2023, 03:19:34 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 17, 2023, 02:13:54 PM

kinda shocked those old farts are still alive....especially Keith Richards. The amount of alcohol and drugs that guy has consumed in his life could've wiped out entire small towns.

If it is possible for someone to look even worse in person than they do in Internet pictures, it's Mick and Keith. I saw them in 2015, and they looked like hell then.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 17, 2023, 03:20:06 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 17, 2023, 02:18:38 PM

I saw the Stones in the stadium in Ames back in 89.
Ticket was expensive back then, maybe $50.  maybe not, don't recall

Keith was old then

That’s $120 in today dollars

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 17, 2023, 03:30:51 PM

Why California's high-speed rail is taking so long to complete (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/17/why-californias-high-speed-rail-is-taking-so-long-to-complete.html)

Just shoot it already, it's done, it's been done for years how.  This is ridiculous.

But 15 years later, there is not a single mile of track laid, and executives involved say there isn’t enough money to finish the project. The latest estimates from the California High-Speed Rail Authority suggest it will cost between $88 billion and $128 billion to complete the entire system from LA to San Francisco. Inflation and higher construction costs have contributed to the high price tag.
The project has spent $9.8 billion so far, according to Brian Kelly, CEO of the California High-Speed Rail Authority.

“We knew we’ve had a funding gap ever since the project started,” Kelly said. “What I know is this: The earlier we build it, the cheaper it will be.”
But at this point, it’s not clear where the funding is going to come from. So far, 85% of it has come from the state of California.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 17, 2023, 03:31:58 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 17, 2023, 02:49:43 PM

I was in Palm Beach last week. I think more and more are moving to Florida permanently, and not going back and forth.

Traffic there was just as bad as over here. Maybe just a little worse.

Much different than in 2021, when things got really light for 6 months. We have some relief now, but not like 2 years ago.

Most definitely.  When I moved here in 2016, there was a “season“.  Not anymore

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 17, 2023, 04:01:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 17, 2023, 03:30:51 PM

Why California's high-speed rail is taking so long to complete (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/17/why-californias-high-speed-rail-is-taking-so-long-to-complete.html)

Just shoot it already, it's done, it's been done for years how.  This is ridiculous.

But 15 years later, there is not a single mile of track laid, and executives involved say there isn’t enough money to finish the project. The latest estimates from the California High-Speed Rail Authority suggest it will cost between $88 billion and $128 billion to complete the entire system from LA to San Francisco. Inflation and higher construction costs have contributed to the high price tag.
The project has spent $9.8 billion so far, according to Brian Kelly, CEO of the California High-Speed Rail Authority.

“We knew we’ve had a funding gap ever since the project started,” Kelly said. “What I know is this: The earlier we build it, the cheaper it will be.”
But at this point, it’s not clear where the funding is going to come from. So far, 85% of it has come from the state of California.

I still don't understand who wants this damn thing. It's going to be as slow as driving, more inconvenient than flying, and as expensive as flying. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 17, 2023, 04:02:53 PM

Brian Kelly, CEO of the California High-Speed Rail Authority.

I'd like to know how much this putz has been paid

AND who he blew to get the position

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 17, 2023, 04:03:45 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 17, 2023, 03:31:58 PM

Most definitely.  When I moved here in 2016, there was a “season“.  Not anymore

I still saw a lot of out of state plates from Christmas until now. Lots of Ontario too.

All I could think of then I saw them was "GO HOME ALREADY" so I can get a table for dinner.

It has eased up, but not much.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 17, 2023, 04:05:02 PM

Quote from: utee94 on May 17, 2023, 02:20:45 PM

Only the good die young.

Guess this group will be posting together for the foreseeable future

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 17, 2023, 04:05:23 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 17, 2023, 04:01:58 PM

I still don't understand who wants this damn thing. It's going to be as slow as driving, more inconvenient than flying, and as expensive as flying.

Small children who love trains.

(when I was in high school, my dad insisted we take the train when we went on a one day college visit. I did not particularly care for it)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 17, 2023, 04:05:54 PM

Hooky and Big Matt and a few others were good ones

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 17, 2023, 04:07:38 PM

It's a make work project at this point while feeling good about the environment.  At best, they MIGHT some day use it for freight, but somewhere I read it's not built for that weight.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 17, 2023, 04:08:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 17, 2023, 03:30:51 PM

But 15 years later, there is not a single mile of track laid, and executives involved say there isn’t enough money to finish the project. .
The project has spent $9.8 billion so far, according to Brian Kelly, CEO of the California High-Speed Rail Authority.

They should be given a fair trial followed by 1st class hanging

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 17, 2023, 04:20:47 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 17, 2023, 04:07:38 PM

It's a make work project at this point while feeling good about the environment.  At best, they MIGHT some day use it for freight, but somewhere I read it's not built for that weight.

Freight is fine. We have enormous rail infrastructure for that purpose because of the ports of Long Beach, Los Angeles, and San Francisco. 

We also have passenger rail between LA and SF. And apparently there are plans to do night trains between the two (https://www.thrillist.com/news/nation/night-train-connecting-san-francisco-los-angeles) for people with time to kill and money to burn. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 17, 2023, 05:33:44 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 17, 2023, 04:01:58 PM

I still don't understand who wants this damn thing. It's going to be as slow as driving, more inconvenient than flying, and as expensive as flying.

This has always been my experience with rail whenever I've looked into it.  

My dad and I thought that taking the train would be kinda neat when we went to the tOSU at Nebraska game and met @FearlessF (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10) .  I knew that the Amtrack went through Lincoln and Cleveland so I looked into it.  I don't remember the specifics from then so here they are from now:

The train departs Cleveland at 4:03 am and takes 7:09 to get to Chicago where you sit for almost four hours before departing Chicago at 2pm and taking 10:08 to get to Lincoln just after midnight.  In total the trip takes 21:05.  

The return trip departs Lincoln at 3:26 am then has a six hour layover in Chicago and finally gets to Cleveland 25:12 after leaving Lincoln.  

By car this is a trip of 853 mi that takes 13 hours and you can leave when it is convenient instead of in the middle of the night.  Now the train MIGHT still be appealing if it was cheaper than driving but it isn't.  The train is $307 PER PERSON PER DIRECTION.  Even if I was driving by myself in a Suburban, gas for the Suburban would be cheaper than the train ticket.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 18, 2023, 03:51:48 AM

That's why I'm flummoxed how there isn't a real transportation option between driving 60 mph and being responsible for your own car's operation AND flying 5 miles in the air at 600 mph in a giant tube, maintained by trained professionals.
.
I had a trip that wasn't time-sensitive and looked into a train trip, but was stunned by the prices.  Go slow AND pay a lot?!?  Brilliant!
.
The train thing in CA was going to be a failure from the start.  From strictly a known, red-tape issue, CA is the number 1 worst place to build such a thing.  Might as well build igloos in Phoenix.  Run a marathon up a snowy mountain with no shoes on.  Go hunting for skyscrapers in Wheeling, WV.  Waste of time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 05:41:01 AM

Red tape was not the issue, really, it was lack of funding, known at the start of this, by everyone.  High speed rail is very expensive, everywhere, that's why it doesn't exist here.  Only national governments can "afford" to build it, and then subsidize it so rates are not stratospheric.  The French TGV was built by government, operated by government, and subsidized heavily, there is no economics that works otherwise.  Americans ride it once or twice and think "Why don't we have this?".

Sure thing, pony up, many billions.  A private company is constructing "Brightline" in Florida, it runs at 125 mph on specific stretches of track.  I hope it works for them, I would not invest in the project at all.  Americans prefer personal transportation despite the expense.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 06:03:07 AM

We could easily have a thread on silly rankings, I view this as one.

Ranking the top 25 Power Five college football coaches entering the 2023 season - CBSSports.com (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/ranking-the-top-25-power-five-college-football-coaches-entering-the-2023-season/)

Aside from bickering over their choices, I just wonder how anyone can rank coaches, really, beyond some obvious things.  Mostly this just reflects recent program success.  We know success relfects recruiting, which is a part of coaching, and assistants, and money, etc. as well as game day decisions and scheme.  What about a so so coach who has great assistants and is in a great recruiting territory versus a guy at "Kansas State" who is 3-9 but getting the most out of his players?

Meh, it's the off season of course, we can expect more of this.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2023, 07:28:28 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 05:41:01 AM

Red tape was not the issue, really, it was lack of funding, known at the start of this, by everyone.  High speed rail is very expensive, everywhere, that's why it doesn't exist here.  Only national governments can "afford" to build it, and then subsidize it so rates are not stratospheric.  The French TGV was built by government, operated by government, and subsidized heavily, there is no economics that works otherwise.  Americans ride it once or twice and think "Why don't we have this?".

Sure thing, pony up, many billions.  A private company is constructing "Brightline" in Florida, it runs at 125 mph on specific stretches of track.  I hope it works for them, I would not invest in the project at all.  Americans prefer personal transportation despite the expense.

So, if we weren't funding a crappy country's war, we could have HSR in the country.

Brightline is working very well, by the way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 07:40:20 AM

HSR would cost far far more than whatever we're sending Ukraine, and on a going basis.  Of more import I think is our deficit and debt.

As I said, I hope Brightline works out, it's a more modest approach versus the California debacle.  It should be workable in densely populated areas with a lot of tourists etc.  The Accela system works in the NE corridor pretty well also.  That trains dump you off in the middle of town mostly.  What won't work well I think is a  train from say Atlanta to DC or New Orleans at 125 mph (unless subsidized).  And to go faster means a lot more money.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2023, 07:44:05 AM

Amtrak doesn't work because riding on Amtrak is like riding on Greyhound.

HSR in Europe is like flying on Delta.

We don't rent cars in Europe. We would if they had Amtrak.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 07:46:29 AM

As I said, things like the TGV only are practicable if government built and government subsidized.  There is no business model for it at all.

We nearly always have a car rental mostly because we're going to weird places off the beaten path.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2023, 07:54:05 AM

We hire taxis for that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 08:02:39 AM

My wife wanted to take a taxi from the airport last time we flew in.  I was tired, so we did.  The bill was 200 Eu to get to Fontainebleau.
Friends live near there and did cart us around for a day to have dinner and lunch and see a few sights which helped.  We then took a bus tour of southern France (which worked out OK).  On return, we shared a ride to Paris with another lady who was on the tour.  A taxi would have been $200 plus.  But then there is parking.

We managed on that trip with no rental car, but I think in every other case we've had a car.

We got comped a bottle of Champagne at the Hilton at CDG where we usually stay the night before returning for having stayed there so often.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 18, 2023, 09:38:20 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 05:41:01 AM

Red tape was not the issue, really, it was lack of funding, known at the start of this, by everyone.  High speed rail is very expensive, everywhere, that's why it doesn't exist here.  Only national governments can "afford" to build it, and then subsidize it so rates are not stratospheric. 

That's why any who either initiated or profited from it should be in the Big House or payback their ill gotten gaines.Then we can go after congress and the conglomerates. After that is accomplished i'm going to play cards in the garage behind my house near the woods - with Emelia Earhart,Jimmy Hoffa,Elvis,DB Cooper,sasquatch and ET if he hasn't went home yet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 09:50:26 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on May 18, 2023, 09:38:20 AM

That's why any who either initiated or profited from it should be in the Big House or payback their ill gotten gaines.Then we can go after congress and the conglomerates. After that is accomplished i'm going to play cards in the garage behind my house near the woods - with Emelia Earhart,Jimmy Hoffa,Elvis,DB Cooper,sasquatch and ET if he hasn't went home yet

Yeah, as you say, none of us expect anything like this.  VERY few in "public life" pay any real consequences for their actions, which is one reason they persist doing stuff with impunity.  Occasionally some doctor may get indicted for Medicare fraud, which is a drop in ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 18, 2023, 09:52:11 AM

The Italian Frecciarossa is also awesome. However, it took a long time for the Italian government to overhaul the structure of it's railroads. It started in 1980, and has taken almost an entire generation and the entrant of a competitor (Italo) to get things to where they are now.

This study from the International Transport Forum is a fascinating read on such things.

https://www.itf-oecd.org/sites/default/files/docs/high-speed-rail-competition-italy.pdf

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 18, 2023, 09:53:22 AM

https://www.railfreight.com/railfreight/2023/03/16/italian-state-subsidies-for-rail-freight-are-the-lowest-since-2018/?gdpr=accept

The Italian railways do take a state subsidy, but it's a quarter of that of the subsidy of roadway transport. 

Quote

One of the main complaints brought up by Rizzi is the difference in state incentives between the road and rail freight sectors. To better contextualise, 25 million euros were allocated as state subsidies for the road sector just for the period between 3 October and 16 November 2022. On the other hand, the rail industry is getting 22 million on a yearly basis for the next three years. According to Rizzi, these subsidies should actually keep increasing because a growth in volumes means more costs for the sector. Moreover, these subsidies should be viewed as investments, considering all the advantages that the rail brings.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 10:01:11 AM

I recently checked the price of a train from Marseille to Florence, Italy.  Flying was cheaper and faster.  I got a note that Delta restarted the nonstop from here to Nice and I thought that could be a nice trip, visit Marseille and the daugher in law and then Florence.  I figured we could take the train from one to the other.  Plane fares are weird.

But I'm not going to take a train when flying is cheaper and faster.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2023, 10:02:41 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on May 18, 2023, 09:52:11 AM

The Italian Frecciarossa is also awesome. However, it took a long time for the Italian government to overhaul the structure of it's railroads. It started in 1980, and has taken almost an entire generation and the entrant of a competitor (Italo) to get things to where they are now.

This study from the International Transport Forum is a fascinating read on such things.

https://www.itf-oecd.org/sites/default/files/docs/high-speed-rail-competition-italy.pdf

Best way to travel within Italy, by far.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 18, 2023, 10:09:49 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 10:01:11 AM

I recently checked the price of a train from Marseille to Florence, Italy.  Flying was cheaper and faster.  I got a note that Delta restarted the nonstop from here to Nice and I thought that could be a nice trip, visit Marseille and the daugher in law and then Florence.  I figured we could take the train from one to the other.  Plane fares are weird.

But I'm not going to take a train when flying is cheaper and faster.

Yeah, we took the train from Rome to the Cinque Terre, and then from there to Florence. Both were about 4 hours which is reasonable and I'm not sure there is any decent air service to the Cinque Terre anyway. 

But from Florence to Paris would not have been feasible by rail, for what was maybe a 2 or 2 1/2 hour flight. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 10:10:54 AM

DeSantis to unveil presidential campaign next week: reports | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4010133-desantis-to-unveil-presidential-campaign-next-week-reports/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 10:12:45 AM

The flight from here to Paris was about $1700, the flight from here to Marseille was about $1450.  It goes through Paris.  Nice was about $1600, comfort seats, depending on day.  My wife is wanting to go of course, I delayed it because she had to renew her passport and it took a while, but it came last week.

So my excuse is gone other than saying it's too expensive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 18, 2023, 10:39:33 AM

We're looking at fares for our trip to South Korea in August. Costs almost a thousand dollars more to fly nonstop on Delta than on American over DFW.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 18, 2023, 10:42:01 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 18, 2023, 03:51:48 AM

That's why I'm flummoxed how there isn't a real transportation option between driving 60 mph and being responsible for your own car's operation AND flying 5 miles in the air at 600 mph in a giant tube, maintained by trained professionals.
.
I had a trip that wasn't time-sensitive and looked into a train trip, but was stunned by the prices.  Go slow AND pay a lot?!?  Brilliant!
.
The train thing in CA was going to be a failure from the start.  From strictly a known, red-tape issue, CA is the number 1 worst place to build such a thing.  Might as well build igloos in Phoenix.  Run a marathon up a snowy mountain with no shoes on.  Go hunting for skyscrapers in Wheeling, WV.  Waste of time.

On your "go slow and pay a lot" comment, that is exactly it.  For my trip to Lincoln the options:

• Amtrack at $614/person, takes about 24 hours (a little under one way, a little over the other)
• Airline at $360 (but you get dropped in Omaha), takes 3:25.  
• Car from my house to the stadium, Google says takes 13:05 (I can beat that) and is a drive of 857 mi

The train is literally more expensive than flying and slower than driving.  The price of driving obviously varies a lot.  It is a 1,714 round trip so at 20-30 mpg it would take 57-86 gallons of gas.  if we figure gas is $4/gal that is $228-$344.  If you are driving by yourself in a Suburban it would be almost as cheap to fly but driving has several advantages:

• You go on your own schedule.  With trains or planes you go when they go.  
• You have your car when you get there.  With the train option this isn't a big deal since the train station is in downtown Lincoln, walking distance from Memorial Stadium.  However, this is a BIG deal with the flight option since the flight goes to Omaha and you still need to get from there to Lincoln somehow.  
• Probably the biggest advantage to driving is that extra passengers have little or no impact on fuel consumption so when you add passengers the per-passenger price drops.  While flying is almost as cheap as driving alone in a Suburban, I did the trip with my dad in a car that got ~30 MPG so it was MUCH cheaper than flying and MUCH faster than the train.  

On this whole issue in general, the biggest reason that the US doesn't have a lot of functional HSR isn't red tape, some uniquely American refusal to take mass transit, or anything like that, it is simply population density.  Any form of mass transit needs enough potential customers to work which is why there are Subways, busses, and the El in big cities but you don't see those in rural areas.  Population Density per km2:

• 37 USA
• 338 Japan
• 280 UK
• 238 Germany
• 199 Italy
• 151 China
• 118 France

There are areas in the US that DO have the population density to support mass transit but they aren't nearly as large as the areas of Europe that have that density.  Even a state like New York with NYC, Albany, Buffalo, and Syracuse also has a massive upstate area that is pretty sparsely populated.  California is another great example.  There are a ton of people crammed in between the mountains and the Pacific but the rest of the state is mostly empty desert.  


Japan has almost 10x the population density that we have.  Even France has nearly 4x our population density.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 18, 2023, 11:20:07 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on May 18, 2023, 10:39:33 AM

We're looking at fares for our trip to South Korea in August. Costs almost a thousand dollars more to fly nonstop on Delta than on American over DFW.

Hell if American gives me a chute and knocks off another 50 I'm in

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2023, 11:29:00 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 10:10:54 AM

DeSantis to unveil presidential campaign next week: reports | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4010133-desantis-to-unveil-presidential-campaign-next-week-reports/)

I was really hoping he'd sit this one out. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 18, 2023, 11:35:49 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2023, 11:29:00 AM

I was really hoping he'd sit this one out.

At this point it looks like his chances of actually beating Trump are basically slim-to-none but there are still at least two really good reasons for him to stay in the race:

• There is a nonzero chance that Trump will be unable to run either due to various legal issues or his health, the guy is 76.
• He might be "running for VP" and considering that Trump is 76 and could not run again in 2028 if he won in 2024, this might be the best VP gig since Ford got appointed after Spiro Agnew resigned. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2023, 11:52:47 AM

I doubt he's gonna want to be a VP for #45, and I doubt #45 would want him.

They are very far from being friends.

Anyway, retirement age is what now, 67? That should be limit for Federal office. ANY office.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 18, 2023, 12:21:09 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 18, 2023, 10:42:01 AM

There are areas in the US that DO have the population density to support mass transit but they aren't nearly as large as the areas of Europe that have that density.  Even a state like New York with NYC, Albany, Buffalo, and Syracuse also has a massive upstate area that is pretty sparsely populated.  California is another great example.  There are a ton of people crammed in between the mountains and the Pacific but the rest of the state is mostly empty desert. 

There's a reason that Washington-NYC and NYC-Boston are the two functional rail lines, and why LA-SF won't be, even if it's HSR. 

Both of those East Coast corridors will get you city to city in under 4 hours. HSR in CA is estimating 6 hours. I honestly believe about that 4 hour range is the upper bound beyond which rail travel fails. 

I highlighted earlier that flight time from SoCal to NorCal is 1 hour. But obviously that's not how long the trip takes. I need to budget 30 minutes to drive to Orange County to park. I prefer to get to the airport 60-90 minutes before flight time to get checked in (if traveling with my wife, that includes checking backs which I don't do when I travel alone), get through TSA, all so we can start boarding 30 minutes prior to takeoff and not be stressed over time. Then it's an hour flight. Then 20-30 minutes to deplane and get those checked bags. Finally, then there's getting a rental car, or if we're going to SF, taking a 30 minute BART ride up into the city. 

So that's a 4 hour trip, and that's assuming the flight is on time. By flying I've added 3 hours to my actual trip outside transit time. 

Anything near or less than that, and I honestly would rather drive. I.e. my wife was talking about flying to Vegas when we go in Sept, and that sounds like a hell of a lot of a hassle to avoid a 4 hour drive. Since we're going on a Saturday morning and coming back first thing Sunday morning, we'll avoid the only thing that usually makes me willing to fly--the Friday afternoon HELL trying to get out of Orange County on CA-91. Even for going up to the Bay Area, it's a 5-6 hour drive but if it's something where having a car is useful (i.e. Napa/Sonoma), I might even choose driving anyway. If it's downtown SF where I wouldn't dare have a car, then flying obviously makes sense. 

Now compare it to HSR. The advantage to HSR is that you don't have the TSA, you don't check bags, you don't have checkin that you have to arrive 90 minutes before the train leaves, etc. Literally you can show up 10 minutes before the train leaves and hop right on. And when you arrive at your destination, you just get off the train with your bags and go on your way. 

So for me, since I don't live near Union Station in LA, I would probably take the 10 minute drive to the Irvine metro station 10 minutes before a train leaves, there are frequent trains that get me up to LA in an hour, and as long as I don't cut it SUPER close I might wait 20-30 minutes for the HSR to leave. And then it's 6 hours and drops me off in downtown SF (I believe). So yeah, it probably adds about 90-120 minutes total, but considering I have to make it from Irvine to LA, that is actually an hour of real transit.

You could say I'm cherry-picking, because if I had to fly out of LAX (60 minutes drive plus factoring in 30 more minutes for traffic) for example it would be a lot different than flying out of Orange County. But I'd argue that since there are 5 pretty significant airports in the LA megalopolis, pretty much everyone lives within 30 minutes of an airport. 

But it's 4ish hours by plane, 6ish hours by car, and 8ish hours by HSR. If HSR were cheap, it would make tons of sense to not have to worry about driving. But if HSR is as expensive (or moreso) than flying, there's no way it makes sense to double my trip time and pay anywhere near the same cost. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 18, 2023, 12:23:21 PM

BTW I heard Dave Chappelle just had a surprise show in San Francisco and apparently asked them "what the $&@^ happened here?" Supposedly it was due to him trying to go to a restaurant and seeing someone taking a dump in the street right next to the restaurant. 

But one of his comments about SF was kinda funny:

"San Francisco now is half Glee, and half zombie movie."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 18, 2023, 12:42:36 PM

Air traffic controllers are out at 56, federal law enforcement at 57, pilots at 65, and judges in several states at 70. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2023, 12:45:02 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on May 18, 2023, 12:42:36 PM

Air traffic controllers are out at 56, federal law enforcement at 57, pilots at 65, and judges in several states at 70.

Wasn't there some chatter about upping the ages for controllers and pilots due to the shortages?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 12:47:29 PM

There was, I haven't heard anything further.  A private pilot can fly until he can't pass his physical no matter the age.

But of course any age limit to Congress or the Federal judiciary isn't going to happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2023, 12:58:56 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 12:47:29 PM

There was, I haven't heard anything further.  A private pilot can fly until he can't pass his physical no matter the age.

But of course any age limit to Congress or the Federal judiciary isn't going to happen.

Is referendum an option?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 18, 2023, 01:31:49 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on May 18, 2023, 12:42:36 PM

Air traffic controllers are out at 56, federal law enforcement at 57, pilots at 65, and judges in several states at 70.

In Ohio the age limit for Judges is a little goofy.  You can't RUN for Judge if you will turn 70 before election day.  Judicial terms in Ohio are six years so, at least in theory, you could SERVE as old as 76 (if your 70th birthday falls between election day and the commencement of your term then at the end of your term you would turn 76).  Other Judges age out and cannot run for reelection at age 70.  

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 12:47:29 PM

There was, I haven't heard anything further.  A private pilot can fly until he can't pass his physical no matter the age.

In theory but . . .
A friend of mine here in Medina, actually the last living WWII veteran that I know, is 99.  He is in PHENOMENAL shape for that age and drives himself to our weekly Kiwanis meeting.  Up until a few years ago (when he was about 95-96) he was still riding his motorcycle to our weekly meetings.  

Anyway, he can still get a pilot's license but he had to give up flying because he couldn't get insurance.  

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2023, 12:58:56 PM

Is referendum an option?

Actually, no.  For one thing, there is no provision in the US Constitution for a national referendum.  Beyond that, even if Congress wanted to pass an age limit for themselves (good luck) it wouldn't matter.  Several states passed term limits for Congress and the Federal Judiciary tossed them.  because he requirements to serve in Congress are laid out in the Constitution and thus can only be amended by Constitutional Amendment.  Age is addressed in the Constitution (the other way, there is a minimum not a maximum) and the same principle applies here.  Since the requirements are spelled out in the Constitution, they can ONLY be changed by Constitutional Amendment.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 01:40:08 PM

There so second option to the Amendment process, it's a bit scary, to me.

I never had insurance as a pilot.  Our flying club did, on the planes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2023, 01:56:55 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 18, 2023, 01:31:49 PM

Actually, no.  For one thing, there is no provision in the US Constitution for a national referendum.  Beyond that, even if Congress wanted to pass an age limit for themselves (good luck) it wouldn't matter.  Several states passed term limits for Congress and the Federal Judiciary tossed them.  because he requirements to serve in Congress are laid out in the Constitution and thus can only be amended by Constitutional Amendment.  Age is addressed in the Constitution (the other way, there is a minimum not a maximum) and the same principle applies here.  Since the requirements are spelled out in the Constitution, they can ONLY be changed by Constitutional Amendment. 

That's what I was looking for and could not find anything. I'm pretty sure I know why there isn't a provision for that too.

It screams Democracy really, which we are not.

An amendment is never going to happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 02:00:03 PM

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 18, 2023, 04:08:28 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 18, 2023, 12:21:09 PM

There's a reason that Washington-NYC and NYC-Boston are the two functional rail lines, and why LA-SF won't be, even if it's HSR.

Both of those East Coast corridors will get you city to city in under 4 hours. HSR in CA is estimating 6 hours. I honestly believe about that 4 hour range is the upper bound beyond which rail travel fails.

I highlighted earlier that flight time from SoCal to NorCal is 1 hour. But obviously that's not how long the trip takes. I need to budget 30 minutes to drive to Orange County to park. I prefer to get to the airport 60-90 minutes before flight time to get checked in (if traveling with my wife, that includes checking backs which I don't do when I travel alone), get through TSA, all so we can start boarding 30 minutes prior to takeoff and not be stressed over time. Then it's an hour flight. Then 20-30 minutes to deplane and get those checked bags. Finally, then there's getting a rental car, or if we're going to SF, taking a 30 minute BART ride up into the city.

So that's a 4 hour trip, and that's assuming the flight is on time. By flying I've added 3 hours to my actual trip outside transit time.

Anything near or less than that, and I honestly would rather drive. I.e. my wife was talking about flying to Vegas when we go in Sept, and that sounds like a hell of a lot of a hassle to avoid a 4 hour drive. Since we're going on a Saturday morning and coming back first thing Sunday morning, we'll avoid the only thing that usually makes me willing to fly--the Friday afternoon HELL trying to get out of Orange County on CA-91. Even for going up to the Bay Area, it's a 5-6 hour drive but if it's something where having a car is useful (i.e. Napa/Sonoma), I might even choose driving anyway. If it's downtown SF where I wouldn't dare have a car, then flying obviously makes sense.

Now compare it to HSR. The advantage to HSR is that you don't have the TSA, you don't check bags, you don't have checkin that you have to arrive 90 minutes before the train leaves, etc. Literally you can show up 10 minutes before the train leaves and hop right on. And when you arrive at your destination, you just get off the train with your bags and go on your way.

So for me, since I don't live near Union Station in LA, I would probably take the 10 minute drive to the Irvine metro station 10 minutes before a train leaves, there are frequent trains that get me up to LA in an hour, and as long as I don't cut it SUPER close I might wait 20-30 minutes for the HSR to leave. And then it's 6 hours and drops me off in downtown SF (I believe). So yeah, it probably adds about 90-120 minutes total, but considering I have to make it from Irvine to LA, that is actually an hour of real transit.

You could say I'm cherry-picking, because if I had to fly out of LAX (60 minutes drive plus factoring in 30 more minutes for traffic) for example it would be a lot different than flying out of Orange County. But I'd argue that since there are 5 pretty significant airports in the LA megalopolis, pretty much everyone lives within 30 minutes of an airport.

But it's 4ish hours by plane, 6ish hours by car, and 8ish hours by HSR. If HSR were cheap, it would make tons of sense to not have to worry about driving. But if HSR is as expensive (or moreso) than flying, there's no way it makes sense to double my trip time and pay anywhere near the same cost.

The expected travel time is six hours? Well that doesn’t feel all that high speed

It’s an unfortunate catch 22. The only way a project like that makes sense is if you can get the experience to be in some way better. But by the time conditions are so bad traffic wise that a train might be better, The space to build such a project is absurdly prohibitively expensive. (that’s basically the case with building any new public transit most anywhere now)

Like, I can very easily take a transit to work. The station is about two blocks away, oh my office is about two blocks from the other station. But I don’t. The trains don’t go as frequently as I would like and are often delayed. But more than that, I have parking in my office, and traffic is rarely particularly bad. The driving experience is better and offers flexibility, and therefore I do it. And if there is some big hullabaloo that is downtown that is going to create a parking a traffic mess, then I take the train.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 04:16:28 PM

This is from their web site, it's obviously hooeyish:

California high-speed rail will connect the mega-regions of the state, contribute to economic development and a cleaner environment, create jobs and preserve agricultural and protected lands. The system will run from San Francisco to the Los Angeles basin in under three hours at speeds capable of over 200 miles per hour. The system will eventually extend to Sacramento and San Diego, totaling 800 miles with up to 24 stations. In addition, the Authority is working with regional partners to implement a state-wide rail modernization plan that will invest billions of dollars in local and regional rail lines to meet the state’s 21st century transportation needs.

So they claim under three hours LA to SF.  It's a 383 mile drive taking 6-7 hours and 10-20 gallons of pricey gasoline.  Traffic can extend that time.  I think most reasonable wealthy folks would drive, or fly.  The less wealthy might rarely need to make such a trip.

Here MARTA has plans to extend the current street car, the plans to make a modest expansion of the rail system gets voted down over and over.  We often take it to the airport, it's cheap and convenient for that.  If we went downtown more often we'd use it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 18, 2023, 04:23:31 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 18, 2023, 04:08:28 PM

Like, I can very easily take a transit to work. The station is about two blocks away, oh my office is about two blocks from the other station. But I don’t. The trains don’t go as frequently as I would like and are often delayed. But more than that, I have parking in my office, and traffic is rarely particularly bad. The driving experience is better and offers flexibility, and therefore I do it. And if there is some big hullabaloo that is downtown that is going to create a parking a traffic mess, then I take the train.

When I lived in San Jose, I did take the light rail. My apartment was on the south end of it, and my office just steps from one of the stations on North First St. My company paid for it, so it was $0 out of pocket. 

What was interesting was time:

• Driving: 60 minutes (due to traffic)
• Light rail: 60 minutes (due to all the stops)
• Motorcycle: 20 minutes (due to lane splitting)

So when I wanted to take the bike, I'd ride because i actually got there significantly faster than either car or rail. 


The light rail was also nice because if we (all being young and just out of college) wanted to go out drinking, it was a safe way to get home. 

It worked pretty well there with all the tech companies being so closely clustered along a single corridor. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 18, 2023, 04:36:18 PM

Supposedly capable of SF-LA in 2 hrs 40 minutes nonstop. But... What's the point of being on a rail line with a bunch of stops if you're going to be nonstop? How many nonstop trains will they run per day? Will they cost more than the ones that do stop, and how much? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 18, 2023, 05:04:27 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 18, 2023, 04:36:18 PM

Supposedly capable of SF-LA in 2 hrs 40 minutes nonstop. But... What's the point of being on a rail line with a bunch of stops if you're going to be nonstop? How many nonstop trains will they run per day? Will they cost more than the ones that do stop, and how much?

I think the most reasonable/efficient option would be to have an "express" train that made two stops between SF and LA:

• At the S end of the SF suburbs
• At the N end of the LA suburbs

I'm thinking say Modesto (I realize more E than S but I'm thinking that crossing the bay would be cheaper than buying land to run the thing up the peninsula) for the "outer" SF stop.

I'm thinking say Bakersfield for the "outer" LA stop. That trip, by car per google is:

• 89 mi (2:16) from SF to Modesto
• 202 mi (3:12) from Modesto to Bakersfield
• 113 mi (2:06) from Bakersfield to LA

So the whole trip is about 400 mi and by car (per google) takes 7:34. To have a chance I think the train needs travel speeds approaching 200 MPH so that travel time is roughly:

• 30 mins SF  to Modesto
• An hour Modesto to Bakersfield
• 30 minutes Bakersfield to LA
• 2 hours total. Add in time to slow down, stop, let passengers on/off twice and you should be able to do it in under three hours.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 18, 2023, 06:25:00 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 18, 2023, 05:04:27 PM

I'm thinking say Modesto (I realize more E than S but I'm thinking that crossing the bay would be cheaper than buying land to run the thing up the peninsula) for the "outer" SF stop.

So you just forget about the peninsula and San Jose? 

I'm sure that will do wonders for ridership numbers...

The plan is to head south where existing rights-of-way are already available, although it will require some changes to support new trains: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Route_of_California_High-Speed_Rail

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 18, 2023, 07:06:30 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 10:12:45 AM

The flight from here to Paris was about $1700, the flight from here to Marseille was about $1450.  It goes through Paris.  Nice was about $1600, comfort seats, depending on day.  My wife is wanting to go of course, I delayed it because she had to renew her passport and it took a while, but it came last week.

So my excuse is gone other than saying it's too expensive.

This is called being rich (since no one seemed to know what the word meant a couple of weeks ago).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 18, 2023, 07:24:38 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 18, 2023, 07:06:30 PM

This is called being rich (since no one seemed to know what the word meant a couple of weeks ago).

No, it's not. It's called being upper middle class. 

Essentially I'd define that as enough income (or in CD's case since he's retired, savings) to afford some luxuries in life, but there still has to be a budget and prioritization. It's not just endless extravagance. 

Upper middle class is being in a comfortable enough position that money isn't a regular concern or cause of stress, and you can do a lot of nice things, but it's not like you can fly to Paris every month and buy a Ferrari. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 19, 2023, 12:21:56 AM

Comfortable is the key word there.  
Comfort.
With comfort comes leisure.  If not time for leisure activities, then time for leisurely thoughts and ideas.
That's wealth, imo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 19, 2023, 12:43:32 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 18, 2023, 06:25:00 PM

So you just forget about the peninsula and San Jose?

I'm sure that will do wonders for ridership numbers...

The plan is to head south where existing rights-of-way are already available, although it will require some changes to support new trains: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Route_of_California_High-Speed_Rail

I was thinking that there is probably enough density to run trains both ways from Modesto:

• Through San Jose and up the peninsula, and
• North then West through Oakland and across the bay.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2023, 07:16:47 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 19, 2023, 12:21:56 AM

Comfortable is the key word there. 
Comfort.
With comfort comes leisure.  If not time for leisure activities, then time for leisurely thoughts and ideas.
That's wealth, imo.

And?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 19, 2023, 09:08:20 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 18, 2023, 07:24:38 PM

Upper middle class is being in a comfortable enough position that money isn't a regular concern or cause of stress, and you can do a lot of nice things, but it's not like you can fly to Paris every month and buy a Ferrari.

I COULD fly to Paris every month, for a while anyway.  And no, I'm not "rich" in my mind, I watch my spending.  I am able to do some things folks with more limited means cannot of course, which is true up and down the scheme.  My own definition of "rich" is a person who needs no taxable income.  I think that starts around $50 million in semi-liquid assets.  A person who earns say $20 million a year may not be "rich".  He could get there soon enough.

Terms like "rich" and "wealthy" have definitions that are individual.  To most living in Egypt, I'm certainly way rich, as are we all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 19, 2023, 09:59:18 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 19, 2023, 12:21:56 AM

Comfortable is the key word there. 
Comfort.
With comfort comes leisure.  If not time for leisure activities, then time for leisurely thoughts and ideas.
That's wealth, imo.

So if you're not spending every waking hour at the grind, you're rich? 


(https://media.tenor.com/13S9Xe2VG7gAAAAM/jennifer-lawrence-ok.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 19, 2023, 10:07:30 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 19, 2023, 09:08:20 AM

I COULD fly to Paris every month, for a while anyway.  And no, I'm not "rich" in my mind, I watch my spending.  I am able to do some things folks with more limited means cannot of course, which is true up and down the scheme.  My own definition of "rich" is a person who needs no taxable income.  I think that starts around $50 million in semi-liquid assets.  A person who earns say $20 million a year may not be "rich".  He could get there soon enough.

Terms like "rich" and "wealthy" have definitions that are individual.  To most living in Egypt, I'm certainly way rich, as are we all.

Eh, I think your numbers are skewed to the opposite side of OAM's. 

I'd more define it as someone with enough assets that they can live a semi-extravagant lifestyle without employment based off the gains made on their invested assets, without touching principle (or ideally with that principle growing). 

Depending on how you define "semi-extravagant" lifestyle, and knowing that many people in this group either have no mortgage or they're keeping a mortgage only b/c the cost of borrowing is lower than what they can earn based on invested assets, this might not be a huge spending nut. Couple hundred grand a year. 

I'd say a fair number for where invested assets can give you that life might be around a $10M range. Anyone who is earning $20M a year is "rich" b/c they could stop after a year and be set for life, although in many cases they keep working because at that rate, why stop? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2023, 10:32:03 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 19, 2023, 10:07:30 AM

Eh, I think your numbers are skewed to the opposite side of OAM's.

I'd more define it as someone with enough assets that they can live a semi-extravagant lifestyle without employment based off the gains made on their invested assets, without touching principle (or ideally with that principle growing).

Depending on how you define "semi-extravagant" lifestyle, and knowing that many people in this group either have no mortgage or they're keeping a mortgage only b/c the cost of borrowing is lower than what they can earn based on invested assets, this might not be a huge spending nut. Couple hundred grand a year.

I'd say a fair number for where invested assets can give you that life might be around a $10M range. Anyone who is earning $20M a year is "rich" b/c they could stop after a year and be set for life, although in many cases they keep working because at that rate, why stop?

Our early retirement goal was $5 Million. $10 would be better, of course, but not attainable at our income levels. And certainly not now with the wife retired and on fixed income.

Still trying to get to the $5 Million. I really don't think we will get there, unless our investments really take off like a 2020 run.

We should be fine. Not flying to Paris every month fine, but fine. To live lavishly, I too think you need $10 Million.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 19, 2023, 11:02:01 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2023, 10:32:03 AM

We should be fine. Not flying to Paris every month fine, but fine. To live lavishly, I too think you need $10 Million.

Exactly. At my age (44) I've discussed here the "eff you money" I'd need to quit my job. $5M (after taxes) wouldn't cut it. Just too many uncertainties given that I would then need to expect to live >40 years (hopefully) off that principle. I'd work long enough (5-10 years) to let that grow. 

$10-15M would be enough to walk away though. I'd have to spend the first few years not going nuts to allow it to continue growing, but I think it would be enough to ride out poor market conditions, to protect myself against inflation, etc, such that I'd never worry about money again for the rest of my life. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2023, 11:13:19 AM

Well, I'm 56 so I've had 12 more years to accumulate than you have. I'm planning to be done at 60.

My wife will be 62 this year and will start taking her SS immediately. She maxed out her payments so she will get max return.

I'll have 2 years without income, other than the money I get for my shares in the company.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 19, 2023, 11:21:50 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 19, 2023, 11:02:01 AM

Exactly. At my age (44) I've discussed here the "eff you money" I'd need to quit my job. $5M (after taxes) wouldn't cut it. Just too many uncertainties given that I would then need to expect to live >40 years (hopefully) off that principle. I'd work long enough (5-10 years) to let that grow.

$10-15M would be enough to walk away though. I'd have to spend the first few years not going nuts to allow it to continue growing, but I think it would be enough to ride out poor market conditions, to protect myself against inflation, etc, such that I'd never worry about money again for the rest of my life.

Thus is almost exactly my thinking.

"Millionaire" doesn't mean what it used to. In California nearly everyone with a paid off mortgage is a Millionaire but a lot of those can barely afford to maintain that $1M house.

Even here in Ohio where my suburban 2,200 sqft house on a pond was > a quarter million and the cost of living is similarly lower $1M still wouldn't cut it unless you were say 80+ such that you could dip into principal but even then you'd run the risk of outliving your money.

If you had $5M invested the return at 2% would be $100k/yr. That 2% is conservative enough to leave room to cover inflation and for growth but $100k/yr also is a LONG ways short of the Jet Set (or as @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) put it, flying to Paris every month and buying a Ferrari).

That is why I agree with the suggested $10-15M as being what I really consider "rich". At that point you'd have at least a Quarter Million in annual spending money so yeah, you're rich.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2023, 11:32:40 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 19, 2023, 11:21:50 AM

Thus is almost exactly my thinking.

"Millionaire" doesn't mean what it used to. In California nearly everyone with a paid off mortgage is a Millionaire but a lot of those can barely afford to maintain that $1M house.

Even here in Ohio where my suburban 2,200 sqft house on a pond was > a quarter million and the cost of living is similarly lower $1M still wouldn't cut it unless you were say 80+ such that you could dip into principal but even then you'd run the risk of outliving your money.

If you had $5M invested the return at 2% would be $100k/yr. That 2% is conservative enough to leave room to cover inflation and for growth but $100k/yr also is a LONG ways short of the Jet Set (or as @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) put it, flying to Paris every month and buying a Ferrari).

That is why I agree with the suggested $10-15M as being what I really consider "rich". At that point you'd have at least a Quarter Million in annual spending money so yeah, you're rich.

You are on the younger side of the board, correct? I assume so because you have so many young kids, but you never know anymore.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 19, 2023, 11:33:54 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2023, 11:32:40 AM

You are on the younger side of the board, correct? I assume so because you have so many young kids, but you never know anymore.

I'm 48, just a late bloomer on the family thing. I did get married until after 40.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 19, 2023, 11:49:18 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 19, 2023, 11:33:54 AM

I'm 48, just a late bloomer on the family thing. I did get married until after 40.

4th kid on the way, at 48? 

Yeah, you might need more than $15M :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 19, 2023, 11:51:24 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 19, 2023, 10:07:30 AM

Eh, I think your numbers are skewed to the opposite side of OAM's.

I noted the definition is individual, I gave mine, which is as valid as anyone's.  The calculation on what is needed for retirement has to include age at retirement.  Let's assume you are 65, you're life expectancy is 86 for a female and 83 for a male.  So, you need to cover 20 years, and have a safety net in case.  I didn't include SS in my own situation, but it's a nice "perk" indeed.  I actually could live off SS with my wife's as well.  It would be a simpler lifestyle.

Another definition of "rich" is you can do whatever you want without considering the cost (aside from bizarre things).  I consider costs a lot when we travel.  I imagine everyone here does as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 19, 2023, 11:56:24 AM

I've mentioned before that my wife's closest friend is rich, by whatever definition.  And she has a lot of problems in her life, not because she has money, it's just life.  We don't see her that often, but she calls about weekly and they talk for an hour, I usually get a synopsis.  She has two sons who are really nice guys, I spent some time with them at their fazenda.  She has staff, which is one aspect of being rich.  My wife commented once that she's very happy with our situation, but one thing she'd like to have if a chef to fix dinners every night.  (I actually fix dinner about half the time.)

Anyway, I personally am "content".  I wouldn't mind having more money, as Badge notes, but we get by.  My kids will probably get a nice inheritance because I'm pretty conservative with spending.  And I actually "earned" more after I retired than I was getting paid in many years.  And I made like $100 on book sales last year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2023, 12:07:25 PM

Those books are putting you over the top.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2023, 12:10:45 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 19, 2023, 11:33:54 AM

I'm 48, just a late bloomer on the family thing. I did get married until after 40.

Wowzer.

Quite the opposite for me. I married 3 people when I was 30. The two boys are on their own and completely off my payroll.

Grandkids are on the payroll, so to speak. My wife likes to go nuts and I reel her in by threatening to cut travel. ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 19, 2023, 12:14:31 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2023, 12:07:25 PM

Those books are putting you over the top.

Ha, we spent $450 at Tower liquor store yesterday, I may have to cut travel.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 19, 2023, 12:28:50 PM

Georgia prosecutor clears decks for possible Trump charges | The Hill (https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4012121-georgia-prosecutor-clears-decks-for-possible-trump-charges/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 19, 2023, 12:29:49 PM

I’m learning that my dividing line for “rich” is lower than a lot of folks. 

I suppose some of that has to do with personal experience. And I guess I don’t treat it with as much stigma as some people do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2023, 12:38:11 PM

Stigma?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 19, 2023, 12:40:32 PM

Some folks view the rich with disdain, even loathing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2023, 12:41:50 PM

I give them credit, mostly. For example, I give Paris Hilton no credit. But I also don't loathe her for being born with a silver spoon up her ass.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 19, 2023, 01:25:39 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 19, 2023, 12:40:32 PM

Some folks view the rich with disdain, even loathing.

That's probably jealousy.  

I sort of took umberage with it because at the mere mention of being rich, half a dozen of you guys guffawed and seemed to suddenly forget what the word means.  

That reaction is what I have a disdain for.  If you're rich and you earned it, great.  If you're rich and you earned it unethically or something, that's not great.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 19, 2023, 01:29:04 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 19, 2023, 01:25:39 PM

That's probably jealousy. 

I sort of took umberage with it because at the mere mention of being rich, half a dozen of you guys guffawed and seemed to suddenly forget what the word means. 

That reaction is what I have a disdain for.  If you're rich and you earned it, great.  If you're rich and you earned it unethically or something, that's not great.

The account of what half a dozen folks here posted is not aligned with my memory, or the facts.  But it's your world, you can imagine what you want.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2023, 01:42:21 PM

By my definition, I'm not rich. Comfy, for sure, but not rich.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 19, 2023, 03:14:52 PM

Bike garage appears in Midtown. Does Atlanta need more of these? | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/new-bike-garage-midtown-does-atl-need-more-these)

(https://i.imgur.com/0O3f0sC.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 19, 2023, 03:19:06 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2023, 12:38:11 PM

Stigma?

I don’t think a lot of people consider it an honorific. People sort of begrudgingly admit it.

By my definitions, I would bet a few people on this here message board fall into or close to the category of rich, and I’m guessing if I said that to them, they would not say “oh yes, I am.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 19, 2023, 03:26:09 PM

My guess is when a person gets a net worth of say $3 million or so, they realize they don't feel "rich" as they might have imagined it at one time.  Back in the day, any millionaire was considered "rich" by most, inflation has done away with that metric.  So where is the line?  It is going to vary all over the place.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 19, 2023, 03:27:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 19, 2023, 11:51:24 AM

I noted the definition is individual, I gave mine, which is as valid as anyone's.  The calculation on what is needed for retirement has to include age at retirement.  Let's assume you are 65, you're life expectancy is 86 for a female and 83 for a male.  So, you need to cover 20 years, and have a safety net in case.  I didn't include SS in my own situation, but it's a nice "perk" indeed.  I actually could live off SS with my wife's as well.  It would be a simpler lifestyle.

Another definition of "rich" is you can do whatever you want without considering the cost (aside from bizarre things).  I consider costs a lot when we travel.  I imagine everyone here does as well.

And I'm not saying your definition is wrong. However, if we're having a discussion, and we're all using the same word while having different definitions, then we're not effectively communicating. 

I.e. for OAM, it seems that "rich" is anyone with a comfortable enough income that they have time for leisure and don't have to grind their way to avoid abject poverty. I'd argue that someone who can devote spare time to an obscure passion, i.e. a college football board game, that may be only modestly profitable, would fall under his definition of "rich". But I don't think he calls himself rich. 

On the opposite side, I've known many people that I'd consider rich. We're talking people that built up nice businesses, live in palatial estates inland or large oceanfront houses on the boardwalk in Newport Beach (or both in one case), live in luxury, have expensive wine collections, etc etc. But even with the houses I'm not sure they're at $50M net worth, much less $50M in semi-liquid assets. 

My only point is that it seems for both of you, your definition is outside the mainstream. Which, again, is fine. I'm not saying that definition is wrong. But it makes it hard to communicate when the spectrum of "rich" is so wide between us, but we're all trying to use the same word. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 19, 2023, 03:31:00 PM

What do you think is the median opinion for where a person is "rich" in the US?  Consider net asset value.

A million?  Two?  Three?  Ten?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 19, 2023, 03:33:11 PM

uartile table with fifth quartile split and the tenth decile indicated:

Percentile of net worth	2019	Percent change from 2016
25	$12,400	+14.8%
50	$121,700	+17.6%
75	$403,800	+2.9%
90	$1,220,200	-3.3%

Source: Federal Reserve - Survey of Consumer Finances, 1989 - 2019^{[color=rgb(14 165 233/var(--tw-text-opacity))]3 (https://financebuzz.com/us-net-worth-statistics#sources)}[/iurl][/size][/sup][/i][/font][/size][/color]

• The top decile (90-100 in quartile chart), or top 10% of high net worth U.S. families, own 76% of the wealth, according to analysis done by the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis.
• 12.9 million families are in this top decile, and a net worth of $1.22 million is the threshold to join.⁴

U.S. Net Worth Statistics: The State of Wealth in 2023 | FinanceBuzz (https://financebuzz.com/us-net-worth-statistics#:~:text=The middle 40% of U.S.,families are in this)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 19, 2023, 03:35:23 PM

Americans need $5 million in net worth to join the 1% | Fortune (https://fortune.com/2023/05/16/us-one-percent-net-worth-monaco-switzerland-australia/)

Top one percent if $5 million.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 19, 2023, 03:43:51 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 19, 2023, 03:19:06 PM

I don’t think a lot of people consider it an honorific. People sort of begrudgingly admit it.

By my definitions, I would bet a few people on this here message board fall into or close to the category of rich, and I’m guessing if I said that to them, they would not say “oh yes, I am.”

Well, it depends on a lot of things.

One is the dichotomy of income vs net worth. A lot of people define "rich" by income. But that can be skewed because income can stop coming in. I would be part of that group that's high income but not high net worth. One reason (per Badge) is that being younger, I've had less time to amass wealth. Another is my own personal circumstance--I had to sell my house when I got divorced in 2016, and I've been stuck renting since then. If I still owned the house I'd have well over a half mil in equity due to continued mortgage payments and appreciation, which I don't have now. I have a wonderful life, but if something happened where I couldn't earn money, I'd be screwed very quickly. 

The second that CD brought up is liquidity of assets. The houses in my neighborhood top out at about $1M in value. Bear in mind these aren't mansions, they're almost 50 years old and anything that isn't renovated won't be higher than maybe 1800 sq ft. But as medina points out, someone who has paid off that house and has $1M in equity isn't rich, because if they sell their house, they still need a place to live. The value of having their house paid off isn't that they have access to that equity, it's that their expenses have gone down because they don't have to pay mortgage or rent. 

This is why the test that CD mentioned, i.e. ability to live w/o earned income, I think is a very important test. If you can't maintain a middle class to upper middle class lifestyle without earned income, you ain't rich. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 19, 2023, 03:44:40 PM

Worth noting, there are different vectors of this prosperity. 

If you’re making $200k a year in all but a few cities, you’re arguably rich. Now, you could be spending it on cool stuff that doesn’t help you’re net worth, but in one sense, still rich, 

(I think back to when I was in HS. A sign that I felt made someone “rich” was the ability for a family to buy someone a new or newer car when they turned 16. The girl who was given an H2 for getting her permit, rich family in my book)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 19, 2023, 03:50:46 PM

I suspect we'd all agree that top one percent in net assets is "rich", as a starting point.  (And yes, location is a factor.)  How much lower one can go is variable.  I'd be happy with a consensus board opinion on the topic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2023, 03:50:51 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 19, 2023, 03:19:06 PM

I don’t think a lot of people consider it an honorific. People sort of begrudgingly admit it.

By my definitions, I would bet a few people on this here message board fall into or close to the category of rich, and I’m guessing if I said that to them, they would not say “oh yes, I am.”

Depends how close you got. We're all friends here. Even Fro!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 19, 2023, 03:50:55 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 19, 2023, 03:31:00 PM

What do you think is the median opinion for where a person is "rich" in the US?  Consider net asset value.

A million?  Two?  Three?  Ten?

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 19, 2023, 03:35:23 PM

Americans need $5 million in net worth to join the 1% | Fortune (https://fortune.com/2023/05/16/us-one-percent-net-worth-monaco-switzerland-australia/)

Top one percent if $5 million.

I would venture to say the "median" opinion in the US would be somewhere between 2M and 5M. 

My own opinion would be the 5M-10M range, because the problem in a lot of cases for the lower ranges is that you're talking about net asset value, which might be illiquid assets (such as one's house) that if sold would need to be at the very least replaced or downsized in order to keep living.

As I said, I view "rich" as being able to maintain a very comfortable lifestyle w/o eating into your investment principal, so based purely on annual gains. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2023, 03:58:02 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 19, 2023, 03:44:40 PM

Worth noting, there are different vectors of this prosperity.

If you’re making $200k a year in all but a few cities, you’re arguably rich. Now, you could be spending it on cool stuff that doesn’t help you’re net worth, but in one sense, still rich,

(I think back to when I was in HS. A sign that I felt made someone “rich” was the ability for a family to buy someone a new or newer car when they turned 16. The girl who was given an H2 for getting her permit, rich family in my book)

There are lots of moving parts. $200K is nice income, but that can go away. If you blew your $200K income on housing, cars, boats, etc. with nothing to spare, you ain't rich if you could no longer afford that lifestyle with no income.

If I lost my income, our lifestyle would change a bit, which is why I say we're not rich. It wouldn't be drastic, but it would change.

I'm being very careful with money in my waning years of working for this very reason.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 19, 2023, 03:58:37 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 19, 2023, 03:44:40 PM

Worth noting, there are different vectors of this prosperity.

If you’re making $200k a year in all but a few cities, you’re arguably rich. Now, you could be spending it on cool stuff that doesn’t help you’re net worth, but in one sense, still rich,

Yeah, and living in one of those areas of the country, I'm spending a crap-ton on rent in a tiny old 3br 1200 sf house on a postage stamp lot, and another crap-ton on alimony and child support. Neither makes me feel cool nor rich lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 19, 2023, 04:00:24 PM

Some folks out there with a $20 million income have negative asset value.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2023, 04:00:50 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 19, 2023, 03:43:51 PM

Well, it depends on a lot of things.

One is the dichotomy of income vs net worth. A lot of people define "rich" by income. But that can be skewed because income can stop coming in. I would be part of that group that's high income but not high net worth. One reason (per Badge) is that being younger, I've had less time to amass wealth. Another is my own personal circumstance--I had to sell my house when I got divorced in 2016, and I've been stuck renting since then. If I still owned the house I'd have well over a half mil in equity due to continued mortgage payments and appreciation, which I don't have now. I have a wonderful life, but if something happened where I couldn't earn money, I'd be screwed very quickly.

The second that CD brought up is liquidity of assets. The houses in my neighborhood top out at about $1M in value. Bear in mind these aren't mansions, they're almost 50 years old and anything that isn't renovated won't be higher than maybe 1800 sq ft. But as medina points out, someone who has paid off that house and has $1M in equity isn't rich, because if they sell their house, they still need a place to live. The value of having their house paid off isn't that they have access to that equity, it's that their expenses have gone down because they don't have to pay mortgage or rent.

This is why the test that CD mentioned, i.e. ability to live w/o earned income, I think is a very important test. If you can't maintain a middle class to upper middle class lifestyle without earned income, you ain't rich.

Seems like we're saying the same thing in different ways.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 19, 2023, 04:25:57 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2023, 03:58:02 PM

There are lots of moving parts. $200K is nice income, but that can go away. If you blew your $200K income on housing, cars, boats, etc. with nothing to spare, you ain't rich if you could no longer afford that lifestyle with no income.

If I lost my income, our lifestyle would change a bit, which is why I say we're not rich. It wouldn't be drastic, but it would change.

I'm being very careful with money in my waning years of working for this very reason.

This introduces an interesting time vector.

I don’t consider the “if you lost your job” factor as much. One factor, to me, that can go into being rich is having a large inbound income stream.

If that disappears, you might stop being rich, in my book. You also might not, depending on what you have saved up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 19, 2023, 04:32:00 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 19, 2023, 03:58:37 PM

Yeah, and living in one of those areas of the country, I'm spending a crap-ton on rent in a tiny old 3br 1200 sf house on a postage stamp lot, and another crap-ton on alimony and child support. Neither makes me feel cool nor rich lol.

I think this hits on two points.

1. A person could argue that the ability to afford a three bedroom home in that part of the world is in itself a sign of being somewhat rich. I had a friend who bought a place at a number that made me nauseous. Part of the reason was that they wanted to live in a specific couple of cities that are extremely in demand. In a sense, they are kind of house poor. In another, their level of wealth gave them access to a certain option that most people don’t have. (The child support and such, certainly a curveball)

2. I think the last part is very interesting, because we imagine being “rich” should feel a certain way. And maybe it doesn’t. maybe it just feels like being able to send your kids to college without borrowing money and also being able to pay for newer cars while maintaining a couple of non-cheap hobbies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 19, 2023, 05:07:07 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 19, 2023, 04:25:57 PM

This introduces an interesting time vector.

I don’t consider the “if you lost your job” factor as much. One factor, to me, that can go into being rich is having a large inbound income stream.

If that disappears, you might stop being rich, in my book. You also might not, depending on what you have saved up.

I worry less about the "if you lost your job" factor. Given the industry I work in and current economic conditions, you'd better believe that I've been thinking mentally about the various levers I could pull to survive until getting another job. First things first, a severe cutback on spending, partly on discretionary things, but also on things such as our food budget to economize what we eat. Then for money, 60 day WARN act where I'd still be earning, then severance, then my existing savings, then the ability to sell my paid-for Jeep if it got desparate, and finally dipping into 401K if it got severe. I'd venture I'd easily have a year+. And to be honest, with severance and industry connections, there's a non-zero possibility that I could be employed quickly and the severance would go straight into my bank account. (There's also a non-zero possibility that it would take a while and I'd get a new job at a lower income level than today). 

No, the other aspect is "what if I had a stroke (or other medical issue / injury / etc) and couldn't work any longer?" In that case, even assuming that I could earn some level of income from disability insurance, I'd have to factor in a MASSIVE change in standard of living. That's what I mean about income "disappearing." A job loss is temporary. A disability might not be. 

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 19, 2023, 04:32:00 PM

I think this hits on two points.

1. A person could argue that the ability to afford a three bedroom home in that part of the world is in itself a sign of being somewhat rich. I had a friend who bought a place at a number that made me nauseous. Part of the reason was that they wanted to live in a specific couple of cities that are extremely in demand. In a sense, they are kind of house poor. In another, their level of wealth gave them access to a certain option that most people don’t have. (The child support and such, certainly a curveball)

2. I think the last part is very interesting, because we imagine being “rich” should feel a certain way. And maybe it doesn’t. maybe it just feels like being able to send your kids to college without borrowing money and also being able to pay for newer cars while maintaining a couple of non-cheap hobbies.

Per the first point, IMHO it's a sign of being upper middle class, which I think is a different question than rich. Upper middle class is a question of income and lifestyle. Rich is the ability to survive if that income isn't there.  

Per the second point, I wasn't trying to complain BTW. I recognize how wonderful my life is. Whether we use the term "rich" or not, I consider myself both successful and fortunate to be where I am, and certainly well-off. It was more about you referring to spending money on cool things, and some of the things I have to spend money on not being all that cool... I'm looking forward especially to when the child support falls off--and if the ex can find someone, the alimony as well--because that would be a HUGE increase in discretionary income. 

Bear in mind that we do spend money on cool things. My daily driver is paid off, and so is my toy, the Jeep. My wife's daily driver is a luxury CUV, and will be fully paid off in July--and BTW we have no plans to replace any of those cars, so car payments should be $0 for at least the next 4-5 years. We have a standing theater subscription, and the seats don't suck. Our overnight trip to Vegas to see Adele will cost an amount that I try not to think about lest it make my eyes bleed, but at the same time we're doing it because we can. 

I love my life. But I'm a LONG damn way from rich. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 19, 2023, 05:11:21 PM

Recognizing my age and such, I have disability insurance through my company. The other older partner has same.

It will give me 60% of my income until I hit SS age (67) if I were unable to work tomorrow and in the future.

Maybe I should get disabled...

Nah.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 19, 2023, 07:52:40 PM

“Rich” is a moving target. 

Dad retired with a NICE pension , SS and $1.5m in the bank.  That was enough to golf every day, fish every day, and travel to Palm Springs for winters.  When he passed he left mom in decent shape.  I will say- he came from nothing.  Italian immigrants for parents. Worked night shift through 2 degrees( engineering and biz) 

I have no pension.  Shooting for $4-5 M to retire, and 61 years old.  Was actually there already before these last 2 tough years in the investment world. 
Income is still the highest in career of course.  Could retire now and be comfortable.   Bit willing to work another year or 2 to get to “very comfortable “.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 19, 2023, 09:00:43 PM

Hey UTEE 

Are familiar with a Bootstich drink?

Agave nectar, bourbon, grapefruit, lime, jalapeño, and bourbon ?

A friend from Texas visiting and made me one.  Quite good.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 19, 2023, 09:19:32 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 19, 2023, 09:00:43 PM

Hey UTEE

Are familiar with a Bootstich drink?

Agave nectar, bourbon, grapefruit, lime, jalapeño, and bourbon ?

A friend from Texas visiting and made me one.  Quite good. 

Texans be crazy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 19, 2023, 09:23:26 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 19, 2023, 09:00:43 PM

Hey UTEE

Are familiar with a Bootstich drink?

Agave nectar, bourbon, grapefruit, lime, jalapeño, and bourbon ?

A friend from Texas visiting and made me one.  Quite good. 

I am not familiar but it sounds delicious.  I'd be down.

I especially like it because it has bourbon in it, TWICE! ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 19, 2023, 10:21:05 PM

Very good 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 19, 2023, 11:31:21 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 19, 2023, 09:00:43 PM

Hey UTEE

Are familiar with a Bootstich drink?

Agave nectar, bourbon, grapefruit, lime, jalapeño, and bourbon ?

A friend from Texas visiting and made me one.  Quite good. 

Y'all go ahead and have him whip up one for me. I'll be over by the by. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 20, 2023, 08:00:18 AM

I encountered an oddity on the cruise, their "bourbon bar" (which was quite nice) had Bulleit "free" but Woodford cost money (the all you can drink plan includes anything up to $15).  But a manhattan made with Woodford was free while one made with Bulleit was over $15.

The barman kindly explained this to me and said it makes no sense.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 20, 2023, 08:53:21 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 19, 2023, 07:52:40 PM

“Rich” is a moving target.

Dad retired with a NICE pension , SS and $1.5m in the bank.  That was enough to golf every day, fish every day, and travel to Palm Springs for winters.  When he passed he left mom in decent shape.  I will say- he came from nothing.  Italian immigrants for parents. Worked night shift through 2 degrees( engineering and biz)

I have no pension.  Shooting for $4-5 M to retire, and 61 years old.  Was actually there already before these last 2 tough years in the investment world.
Income is still the highest in career of course.  Could retire now and be comfortable.  Bit willing to work another year or 2 to get to “very comfortable “. 

Sounds pretty close, but you have better vehicles than I do for sure.

The plan to retire early is probably what will keep me from the AMG or Porsche. Otherwise, I'd have one by now.

Genesis has actually caught my eye, but is it just an expensive Hyundai with nicer stickers on it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 20, 2023, 08:58:57 AM

The Genesis cars look quite good to me, based solely on car mag reviews and appearance.

Every year you work is one year you don't have to cover with your nest egg.

When you turn 65, you absolutely should sign up for Medicare, right away.  And yes, you'll get some bills for it.  I took SS at 66 in part because I don't know if Congress will fix the trust fund in 10 years and benefits could get cut 25%.  I THINK they will, eventually, somehow, probably way too late.  It's already too late.  Another item where a reasonable compromise is feasible.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 20, 2023, 09:04:17 AM

The vehicles are “nice to have” versus “have to have”  and will likely be paired down at or near retirement.  

Don’t owe anything on them.  We don’t even drive much out of need-but rather go where roads are bare and drive for pleasure. 

It’s like travel for some or other interests- one of ours is performance cars.  

Genesis makes some nice vehicles- really nice.  But you’re right- they have increased in price to the extent that is getting difficult to call them bang for the buck. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 20, 2023, 09:09:33 AM

https://www.caranddriver.com/genesis/gv70


They don’t give out many 10/10s

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 20, 2023, 09:12:27 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 20, 2023, 09:04:17 AM

The vehicles are “nice to have” versus “have to have”  and will likely be paired down at or near retirement. 

Don’t owe anything on them.  We don’t even drive much out of need-but rather go where roads are bare and drive for pleasure.

It’s like travel for some or other interests- one of ours is performance cars. 

Genesis makes some nice vehicles- really nice.  But you’re right- they have increased in price to the extent that is getting difficult to call them bang for the buck.

That's kinda us. I don't do car payments well. It just bugs me. Unless it's 0 interest, maybe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 20, 2023, 09:15:49 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 20, 2023, 09:09:33 AM

https://www.caranddriver.com/genesis/gv70


They don’t give out many 10/10s

We'd probably want the GV80, given that we like the M-B GLE. Seems about the same size.

Big difference in price points for these.


(https://i.imgur.com/90NyTIh.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 20, 2023, 09:19:14 AM

When I bought the GTI, they said they could give me a break on the price if I financed it through them.  I figured the catch was some high interest rate, but they quoted 1.9%, so I took it.  This was five years ago, I just finished paying that off.  I mused about paying it off early but figured I could do better than 1.9% elsewhere.  I do hate having loans though, still have one on the condo but it's dropping pretty fast as well.  My wife doesn't like borrowing either, fortuntely.  A marriage won't work well if the spouses don't have similar financial attitudes I think.

I was surprised how good a deal they cut on the GTI relative to MSRP (I figured they might cut a couple thou off, maybe it was because manuals don't move well?)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 20, 2023, 09:19:38 AM

Makes sense   They rate the GV80 a 10 as well. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 20, 2023, 09:22:20 AM

I think C&D and R&T do decent jobs, but there are cases where they rate a vehicle up there and an individual just doesn't care for it of course.  I mostly look at what they highlight as potential problem areas or deficiencies and see if they matter much to me.  My wife and I both like some torque.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 20, 2023, 09:22:40 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 20, 2023, 09:19:14 AM

When I bought the GTI, they said they could give me a break on the price if I financed it through them.  I figured the catch was some high interest rate, but they quoted 1.9%, so I took it.  This was five years ago, I just finished paying that off.  I mused about paying it off early but figured I could do better than 1.9% elsewhere.  I do hate having loans though, still have one on the condo but it's dropping pretty fast as well.  My wife doesn't like borrowing either, fortuntely.  A marriage won't work well if the spouses don't have similar financial attitudes I think.

I was surprised how good a deal they cut on the GTI relative to MSRP (I figured they might cut a couple thou off, maybe it was because manuals don't move well?)

That’s a great car.  I would gladly drive the new Golf R.  Literally world class driving dynamic ( pleasure) and very reasonably priced. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 20, 2023, 09:27:02 AM

I drove an R, briefly, it actually had more power than I felt was "needed", ha.  And the gas mileage of course was lower, I thought the GTI would get decent mileage (it does) and didn't need the AWD.  The R also was an automatic which I didn't care for.  Civic makes a nice hot hatch also.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 20, 2023, 09:28:45 AM

Debt ceiling negotiations update: GOP, White House resume talks (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4012954-debt-ceiling-negotiations-update/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 20, 2023, 09:29:14 AM

https://motorweek.org/road_tests/2021-audi-sq8/

This is one of my vehicles and it is amazing.    Of course I have tweaked it so it is now over 700 HP.  But it’s logic defying how a vehicle of this size can eat up the twistiest or carve a canyon road. Probably due to the active (motorized) roll hardware on each axle and rear steering assist.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 20, 2023, 09:31:57 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 20, 2023, 09:29:14 AM

https://motorweek.org/road_tests/2021-audi-sq8/

This is one of my vehicles and it is amazing.    Of course I have tweaked it so it is now over 700 HP.  But it’s logic defying how a vehicle of this size can eat up the twistiest or carve a canyon road. Probably due to the active (motorized) roll hardware on each axle and rear steering assist. 

Amazing. I thought you had an Audi, but a sedan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 20, 2023, 09:46:47 AM

I did. Had a 2019, RS5 below. Last year I sold it and paid cash for the Dodge ram. You see in the photo below. As I said, moving towards retirement vehicles that I will keep and probably only end up with two in the long run.  Probably the Audi SQ8 and the truck.

The Shelby GT500 and the BMW X3M competition will probably just be for another couple years.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 20, 2023, 09:56:52 AM

Ha! Sunday morning dusk- 1/4 mile runs in “Mexico “ 😂

https://streamable.com/qcpcxi


https://streamable.com/5rg781

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 20, 2023, 09:59:06 AM

Our cab driver in Athens (going to the airport) told me he had an Audi that he "modified" and had a thousand hp, he said.  He was a very good driver, it was early, not much traffic, and he hammered it, asked me if it was OK.  His cab was not the Audi of course.

(My wife couldn't find her passport, so about 5 minutes in we asked him to turn around and go back to the hotel where we checked the room and safe (again).  That was a bit tight.  We got to the airport and she found it in her luggage somewhere fortunately.  He didn't charge us any more for the detour, it was a fixed price 50 EU thing.  I did tip him.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 20, 2023, 10:15:49 AM

Special report: 24 hours of living like Ric Flair in Buckhead | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/nobu-buckhead-phipps-lenox-24-hours-living-like-ric-flair-atl)

If I were a rich man .... dada dada dada dee...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 20, 2023, 10:18:51 AM

I think most folks do not think of themselves as rich. regardless of their assets and cash flow.
Their definition of rich is usually a ways higher with more $$$ than they have.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 20, 2023, 10:36:55 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 20, 2023, 10:18:51 AM

I think most folks do not think of themselves as rich. regardless of their assets and cash flow.
Their definition of rich is usually a ways higher with more $$$ than they have.

They lack objectivity and self-awareness?  I agree.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 20, 2023, 10:45:46 AM

Retirement income is actually huge too. If my wife lives to 92 (30 years) her pension is equal to having a ton of money in the mattress (no interest).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 20, 2023, 10:47:26 AM

I could retire at 53/54, but if I work 2 further years, the monthly amount is much better.  Totally worth it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 20, 2023, 10:53:36 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 20, 2023, 10:47:26 AM

I could retire at 53/54, but if I work 2 further years, the monthly amount is much better.  Totally worth it. 

I'd go to 60 if I were you. Maybe even 62.

Does 53/54 line up with 30 years of teaching?

What states deliver the best (must be well-funded) pensions?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 20, 2023, 11:00:20 AM

I prefer the term "comfortable" .................................

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 20, 2023, 11:06:22 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 20, 2023, 11:00:20 AM

I prefer the term "comfortable" .................................

Well-funded.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 20, 2023, 11:51:13 AM

Terrified Paparazzi Photographer Starting To Think This Meghan Markle Girl Is Stalking Him | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/terrified-paparazzi-photographer-starting-to-think-this-meghan-markle-girl-is-stalking-him?utm_source=The Babylon Bee)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 20, 2023, 01:05:30 PM

Guy who is planning to retire at 56 with a guaranteed pension after working a 9-month-per-year job is calling me rich?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 20, 2023, 01:12:42 PM

I was musing on our walk today (walking is great for musing) about my years in grad school.  I was watching every penny, almost literally.  I had an OK apartment (with green shag carpet and appliances) and a car (my dad paid for it).  I ate bologna sandwiches almost every day for lunch at my desk.  Breakfast was Total cereal.  I had one of those tiny Hibachi grills and I do chicken or burgers at night.  I made a lot of soup and spaghetti and "chili".  A beer was an extravagance.  I think it's "character building" to live poor (I made about $5 K a year, according to an inflation calculator, that's $22 K now).  My starting salary was nearly $30 K (over $100 K today), I thought that was rich, and I still mostly lived close to the bone.  

I stayed pretty cheap for another 25 years or so, when my last two went off to college I realized I had everything pretty well funded and loosened up.  I bought a 1987 Minivan new for about $15 K and put 155,000 miles on it, did the routine maintenance myself.

Anyway, if you are not "unhoused" and can afford rent and food and taxes etc., you are doing decently well.  Stay off using credit cards.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 20, 2023, 01:14:52 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 20, 2023, 01:05:30 PM

Guy who is planning to retire at 56 with a guaranteed pension after working a 9-month-per-year job is calling me rich?

RICH!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 20, 2023, 01:15:49 PM

RE: Credit cards

We use it for everything and pay it off monthly. Been a while since we actually paid for airfare other than upgrades.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 20, 2023, 01:23:25 PM

Sure, I meant running a balance.  I got us to Platinum on Delta by spending on their card.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 20, 2023, 04:06:35 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 20, 2023, 01:05:30 PM

Guy who is planning to retire at 56 with a guaranteed pension after working a 9-month-per-year job is calling me rich?

(https://i.imgur.com/JDr5hKF.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 20, 2023, 04:08:52 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 20, 2023, 01:05:30 PM

Guy who is planning to retire at 56 with a guaranteed pension after working a 9-month-per-year job is calling me rich?

I may be rich then, but not yet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 21, 2023, 06:55:45 AM

Pint-sized Midtown apartments charging $1.6K rents raise eyebrows | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/midtown-apartments-small-charging-16k-rents-raise-eyebrows)

Maybe I already posted this.  

First came word of Old Fourth Ward apartments (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/what-15k-month-apartment-looks-old-fourth-ward-images) asking north of $15,000 monthly for sizable penthouse units over Edgewood Avenue.

379 square feet, without space for even a loveseat—and their starting rent prices of $1,674.  

(https://i.imgur.com/TrBuGEB.png)

Some RICH people around here apparently ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 21, 2023, 10:57:06 AM

It's similar in Phx.  
And that is the dumbest design I may have ever seen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 21, 2023, 11:16:21 AM

The most expensive small apartment in Phoenix is $3.13 /sf according to this, which would be $1,186 for 379 sf.  I guess that is similar to $1,674 in that both strike me as borderline insane.


Most Expensive Phoenix-Area Luxury Apartments - Phoenix Business Journal (bizjournals.com) (https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/subscriber-only/2019/03/29/most-expensive-phoenix-area-luxury.html)

And new apartment buildings here are sprouting like kudzu so demand must be there, or someone thinks it is.

Manhattan of the desert? 5 priciest Scottsdale apartments (azcentral.com) (https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/scottsdale/2016/06/08/manhattan-desert-5-priciest-scottsdale-apartments/85345418/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 21, 2023, 11:34:46 AM

Go into the arts. I'm not kidding. The arts are not a way to make a living. They are a very human way of making life more bearable. Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possibly can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something. ~Kurt Vonnegut

I agree.  I've taken up painting lately, being super wealthy and all.  I'm not very good of course, I'm probably a better writer which isn't saying much, but it's a thing.  Actually, I'm so ungood at painting I can't even tell what a good quality painting would look like unless it's entirely realistic.  Some paintings appeal to me, that's good enough.

We went to a concert last night, one of the pieces performed was "weird", modern music etc.  I was thinking "If they hit a wrong note, neither I nor anyone in the audience would know.".  It was just a jumble of sound.  They had a concerto for two pianos that was interesting, the performers were sisters, it also was a bit weird.  The virtuosity of these concert pianists is completely beyond my realm, and I play a little bit.

And I like walking.  When I was "working", I'd go to a buddy's office and we'd drink tea and talk about the ills of the world, and work.  Then we'd take a walk around the parking lot talking about cars, weather permitting.  One guy had a home built electric car, this was ca. 2008, with lead acid batteries.  He had a neat story about it, an old Jetta with a blown motor.  He bought the batteries and motor for a relative song, and barely had enough juice to get to work on a good day, maybe 30 miles of range.  He had it plugged into a 110 v outlet and had the hood up when we strolled by.  His name was Elon something ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 21, 2023, 12:15:04 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 21, 2023, 11:16:21 AM

The most expensive small apartment in Phoenix is $3.13 /sf according to this, which would be $1,186 for 379 sf.  I guess that is similar to $1,674 in that both strike me as borderline insane.


Most Expensive Phoenix-Area Luxury Apartments - Phoenix Business Journal (bizjournals.com) (https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/subscriber-only/2019/03/29/most-expensive-phoenix-area-luxury.html)

And new apartment buildings here are sprouting like kudzu so demand must be there, or someone thinks it is.

Manhattan of the desert? 5 priciest Scottsdale apartments (azcentral.com) (https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/scottsdale/2016/06/08/manhattan-desert-5-priciest-scottsdale-apartments/85345418/)

Your research needs work.  You're using an article from 2019.  
A lot has happened since then, bud.
Try again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 21, 2023, 12:17:30 PM

Sorry, my bad, I didn't catch that.  I stand corrected, the current prices are probably about the same.  Dates are important.

Lucent Scottsdale Apartments - 2001 N Scottsdale Rd, Scottsdale, AZ 85257 - Zumper (https://www.zumper.com/apartment-buildings/p576297/lucent-scottsdale-scottsdale-az?bedrooms=0)

$1799 for 438 sf.  At least it's over 400 and the floor plan doesn't look goofy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 21, 2023, 01:05:15 PM

To Win Back Old Customer Base, Bud Light Adds Mullets To Cans | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/appealing-to-their-consumers-bud-light-cans-now-have-mullets?fbclid=IwAR3gPi2KCu_ViHL1g8iTE2bjlWuYIZ_8f2GHYvZIZq3wvmGJ6clxbFTqEZU)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 21, 2023, 04:16:08 PM

I have a neighbor I chat with frequently because our dogs are best friends. He's a freelance handyman. He's been working on a house in Newport Beach for quite some time, and it finally finished in March and is now being rented out 

The rent is $22,500. Per month. Plus 2,500 for access to one slip on the boat dock. The guy was going to pay 4,500 to rent both slips, but his other boat is too large to get under a bridge that they need to fit through to access on that part of the bay. 

I'll say that dude is rich. 

My neighbor? Not so much because he's easily mid-60s if not older and is still working because he can't afford not to. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 22, 2023, 08:19:05 AM

Of course.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/fed-rate-increases-hit-small-businesses-the-hardest-7da7fb8e?st=angfzsd1w38vwlb&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 22, 2023, 09:18:00 AM

We have two dumpsters outside the building, one is for general trash, the other is labeled "recyclabes".  We also have small bins for glass and compostable stuff.  I just watched a garbage truck empty both the dumpsters into the same haul.  The glass and compostable trash cans do go properly somewhere I think.  I'm trying to get one for Al cans.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 22, 2023, 09:54:48 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 22, 2023, 09:18:00 AM

We have two dumpsters outside the building, one is for general trash, the other is labeled "recyclabes".  We also have small bins for glass and compostable stuff.  I just watched a garbage truck empty both the dumpsters into the same haul.  The glass and compostable trash cans do go properly somewhere I think.  I'm trying to get one for Al cans.

they tried to do that in my community but the citizens revolted and the idea was shelved

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 22, 2023, 09:57:52 AM

I don't know why anyone would object to having an Al can bin outside.  We also have a trash shut down the hall for everyone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 22, 2023, 10:48:57 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 22, 2023, 09:57:52 AM

I don't know why anyone would object to having an Al can bin outside.  We also have a trash shut down the hall for everyone.

I guess folks just wanted to throw stuff away without having to organize it into catagories

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 22, 2023, 12:13:18 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 22, 2023, 10:48:57 AM

I guess folks just wanted to throw stuff away without having to organize it into catagories

Having an extra bin doesn't force anyone to do anything they don't want to do, it's just there if you want to, same as with the glass and compostable bins.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 22, 2023, 12:16:06 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 22, 2023, 12:13:18 PM

Having an extra bin doesn't force anyone to do anything they don't want to do, it's just there if you want to, same as with the glass and compostable bins.

many places require you to use the correct container or you face consequences

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 22, 2023, 12:23:16 PM

I'm not talking about "many places", I would like an Al bin here.  The only rule here is folks are supposed to break down boxes for obvious reasons, and I see a lot of boxes in the dumpsters nearly every time.  Sometimes I pull them out and crush them myself.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 22, 2023, 01:30:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 22, 2023, 12:23:16 PM

I'm not talking about "many places", I would like an Al bin here.  The only rule here is folks are supposed to break down boxes for obvious reasons, and I see a lot of boxes in the dumpsters nearly every time.  Sometimes I pull them out and crush them myself.

Thats the only thing I hate about amazon I know I will have to deal with a bigassed box after delivery

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 22, 2023, 01:36:03 PM

You should see our front desk around Christmas after a delivery.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 23, 2023, 08:06:51 AM

Fort Myers, Sarasota metros rank among Top 5 in "Housing Heat Index" (naplesnews.com) (https://www.naplesnews.com/story/news/local/2023/05/22/fort-myers-sarasota-metros-rank-among-top-5-in-housing-heat-index/70243476007/)

Some rankings for CDawg to enjoy.

A handful of Florida metros are among the hottest housing markets in the country.
That's according to a study by Bankrate, a personal finance website.

Here's a look at the Top 5 metros based on the consumer site's "Housing Heat Index" study for 2023.

• Gainesville, Georgia
• Knoxville, Tennessee
• Cape Coral-Fort Myers, Florida
• North Port-Sarasota-Bradenton, Florida
• Charlotte-Concord-Gastonia, North and South Carolina

Rounding out the Top 10 are these metros, including two more in Florida:

• Charleston-North Charleston – No. 6
• Nashville-Davidson-Murfreesboro-Franklin, Tennessee – No. 7
• Punta Gorda, Florida – No. 8
• Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, Florida – No. 9
• Wilmington, North Carolina – No. 10

Bankrate uses data from a variety of sources to compile its index, including the Federal Housing Finance Agency, Realtor.com, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics and the U.S. Census Bureau. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 23, 2023, 08:43:42 AM

My parents lived in Gainesville after they retired.  It was/is growing pretty fast, far enough from ATL to have "lower" property values but close enough to feel the impact.  Terrible roads because of the lake.  The downtown was destroyed, leveled, by a tornado in 1937 or so.  It's a major chicken processing place.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 23, 2023, 10:01:01 AM

We have such a dishonest and untrustworthy media. I don't know what can be done about it either. The hit pieces against the Florida governor are relentless, and many are filled with lies. 

For example, the NAACP issues a Florida travel warning. The media runs with it without doing any homework. I'm sure we've all seen this, or something like it at least.


NAACP president explains why the group issued Florida travel advisory - POLITICO (https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/22/naacp-florida-travel-advisory-00098153)


Then we see a piece from the WSJ, which lays out some truth. This will not go far with the MSM and won't be widely read due to WSJ being a pay site. (I get to provide free links here as a subscriber.)


https://www.wsj.com/articles/naacp-florida-travel-advisory-ron-desantis-6be473c9?st=js5bwnfjxi43jzp&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink


Finally, it's pretty simple to go on the Florida education site and find out what's really being taught in Florida.

African American History (fldoe.org) (https://www.fldoe.org/academics/standards/subject-areas/social-studies/african-amer-hist.stml)


This kind of crap really makes my blood boil.


Oh, and one more thing. The head of the NCAAP lives in.... TAMPA!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 23, 2023, 10:20:00 AM

I doubt more than 20 folks pay any attention to any NAACP "advisory" wrt changing travel plans.  I recall when the All Star game moved out of Georgia because of the "Jim Crow 2 voting laws", to a state with more restrictive voting laws in most ways.

The media push narratives, that's about it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 23, 2023, 10:30:30 AM

Atlanta charts (relatively) high on list of 'most affordable' big cities | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/atl-high-list-most-affordable-big-cities-us)

WalletHub’s study indicates the country’s median home sales price has ballooned from $313,000 in early 2019 to nearly $437,000 in the first quarter of 2023.

Prices may be dipping in some markets, but, as analysts note, that’s tempered with skyrocketing interest rates, which climbed from a historic low of 2.65 percent in early 2021 to 6.39 percent this month for average, 30-year fixed mortgages. Gulp.

The top 5 most affordable large cities on WalletHub’s Rust Belt-heavy list are Detroit (No. 1), Pittsburgh, Columbus (OH), Cleveland, and Las Vegas, respectively.  

The five least affordable cities include usual suspects: Boston, San Jose, San Francisco, New York, and Los Angeles (No. 68).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 23, 2023, 11:15:53 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 23, 2023, 10:20:00 AM

I doubt more than 20 folks pay any attention to any NAACP "advisory" wrt changing travel plans.  I recall when the All Star game moved out of Georgia because of the "Jim Crow 2 voting laws", to a state with more restrictive voting laws in most ways.

The media push narratives, that's about it.

Well, it's front-page news nationally, regionally and locally. And it's BS.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 23, 2023, 11:19:26 AM

Sure, it's in the news, but how many folks change travel plans as a result?

Or move out of Florida?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 23, 2023, 11:24:08 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 23, 2023, 11:19:26 AM

Sure, it's in the news, but how many folks change travel plans as a result?

Or move out of Florida?

That wasn't the goal of the warning. It's just a hit piece.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 23, 2023, 11:28:03 AM

Of course, it was meant to gain attention, otherwise institutions like that just disappear.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 23, 2023, 11:30:17 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 23, 2023, 08:06:51 AM

Fort Myers, Sarasota metros rank among Top 5 in "Housing Heat Index" (naplesnews.com) (https://www.naplesnews.com/story/news/local/2023/05/22/fort-myers-sarasota-metros-rank-among-top-5-in-housing-heat-index/70243476007/)

Some rankings for CDawg to enjoy.

A handful of Florida metros are among the hottest housing markets in the country.
That's according to a study by Bankrate, a personal finance website.

Here's a look at the Top 5 metros based on the consumer site's "Housing Heat Index" study for 2023.

• Gainesville, Georgia
• Knoxville, Tennessee
• Cape Coral-Fort Myers, Florida
• North Port-Sarasota-Bradenton, Florida
• Charlotte-Concord-Gastonia, North and South Carolina

Rounding out the Top 10 are these metros, including two more in Florida:

• Charleston-North Charleston – No. 6
• Nashville-Davidson-Murfreesboro-Franklin, Tennessee – No. 7
• Punta Gorda, Florida – No. 8
• Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, Florida – No. 9
• Wilmington, North Carolina – No. 10

Bankrate uses data from a variety of sources to compile its index, including the Federal Housing Finance Agency, Realtor.com, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics and the U.S. Census Bureau.

been saying for years Florida is the future. best place to live right now in the US and it's not close imo. 

doesn't surprise me that the west coast is on fire, lot more affordable than the east coast, particularly south florida where the home prices are just outright insanity right now. know a few people that have moved out and to Orlando area because they can work from home and get way more bang for their buck when it comes to housing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 23, 2023, 11:43:49 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 23, 2023, 11:30:17 AM

been saying for years Florida is the future. best place to live right now in the US and it's not close imo.

doesn't surprise me that the west coast is on fire, lot more affordable than the east coast, particularly south florida where the home prices are just outright insanity right now. know a few people that have moved out and to Orlando area because they can work from home and get way more bang for their buck when it comes to housing.

you heard him folks 

everyone head to Florida

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 23, 2023, 11:59:11 AM

Florida is an attractive place, no doubt, for many people, but it's not for me.  We looked.  Everyone has a different set of criteria for where they want to live, no "ranking" can take that into account.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 23, 2023, 12:00:51 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 23, 2023, 11:43:49 AM

you heard him folks

everyone head to Florida

NO! Everyone go to Texas. It's way more affordable. Plus they have the best Mexican food I've ever had. Apart from Mexico.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 23, 2023, 12:05:40 PM

Good friends of mine retired in Sturgeon Bay.  They like it there.  They were from Minneapolis and don't like heat, at all.  Is that the wrong decision on their part?  Of course not.  Other folks who can live anywhere they want choose all sorts of places because they think it fits them best.  If you're interests are things like golf and boating, Florida should be high on your list.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 23, 2023, 12:07:45 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/nr4WPnA.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 23, 2023, 12:14:51 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 23, 2023, 12:00:51 PM

NO! Everyone go to Texas. It's way more affordable. Plus they have the best Mexican food I've ever had. Apart from Mexico.

we steal kidneys

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 23, 2023, 01:17:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 23, 2023, 11:28:03 AM

Of course, it was meant to gain attention, otherwise institutions like that just disappear.

A neighbor sent this to me.

I have not checked out the data, but if this is even close to accurate, well, let's just say the NAACP is FoS.


The NAACP Says Florida Isn't Safe for Black People. Data Tell a Different Story. (freebeacon.com) (https://freebeacon.com/democrats/the-naacp-says-florida-isnt-safe-for-black-people-data-tell-a-different-story/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 23, 2023, 01:58:04 PM

I don't think any "reasonable" black folks pay much attention to the NAACP and what they say.  Plenty choose to live in Florida obviously, and plenty visit.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 23, 2023, 02:24:19 PM

In an annual ranking from U.S. News & World Report of the best places to live in the United States, one Midwestern city reigned supreme.

The list analyzed the 150 most populous metropolitan areas in the country, using quality of life, job market, affordability and desirability metrics in their methodology.

Coming out on top of the list was a moderately-sized Midwestern city that may leave many Chicagoans with a bad taste in their mouth.

U.S. News & World Report named Green Bay as the best place to live in the nation, citing a revitalized downtown, simultaneous big-city and small-town feel with a "thriving entertainment and arts scene."

Green Bay stood alone among Midwestern cities being ranked highly, as the rest of the list's Top 10 featured locations outside of the region.

While not quite cracking the Top 10, iconic Midwestern college towns Madison, Wis. and Ann Arbor, Mich. made the cut for the Top 15, being ranked 11th and 14th respectively.


https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/midwestern-city-best-place-live-country-u-s-news-world-report/3142416/ (https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/midwestern-city-best-place-live-country-u-s-news-world-report/3142416/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 23, 2023, 02:31:20 PM

Austin has dropped from #1 in 2019, to #40 this year.  My campaign is finally working!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 23, 2023, 06:05:02 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 23, 2023, 11:43:49 AM

you heard him folks

everyone head to Florida

One huricane is all it would take eff that 2-3 or more in a season,fuggedaboutit. Snoblowing ain't that much of a bitch and i like the seasons. Don't think i could warm up to 95 deg everyday ;D

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 23, 2023, 06:16:31 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 23, 2023, 11:43:49 AM

you heard him folks

everyone head to Florida

Split the baby. 

Everyone living in expensive cold places should move to Florida and Texas. Each is a paradise on earth and has plenty of room and need of more newcomers. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 23, 2023, 07:44:15 PM

and Arizona for overflow

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 23, 2023, 08:57:03 PM

Idk....living in the desert is stupid.  
.
The funny thing about FL is that there's TONS of gulf property that isn't developed.  From New Port Richie to Appalachicola, there's basically nothing.  As packed as the Atlantic coast is, it's equally empty on the gulf side.  
.
FL was also very lucky with hurricanes while I lived there.  None of much note in the 15 years before Andrew ('92) and the ten years following it....the bad ones in the 2000s and 2010s seemed like a big correction, imo.  The way the state sticks out there, it should be getting shellacked all the time.  Somehow SC and LA/MS seem to get more than their fair share.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 24, 2023, 08:39:21 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 23, 2023, 08:57:03 PM

Idk....living in the desert is stupid. 
.
The funny thing about FL is that there's TONS of gulf property that isn't developed.  From New Port Richie to Appalachicola, there's basically nothing.  As packed as the Atlantic coast is, it's equally empty on the gulf side. 
.
FL was also very lucky with hurricanes while I lived there.  None of much note in the 15 years before Andrew ('92) and the ten years following it....the bad ones in the 2000s and 2010s seemed like a big correction, imo.  The way the state sticks out there, it should be getting shellacked all the time.  Somehow SC and LA/MS seem to get more than their fair share. 

I don't think that part of FL will ever be truly developed. The Gulf is extremely shallow in those areas. I know a guy (client) who has a spot on the Crystal River. He likes to fish, and he does, but can only go out based on the tides. If it's too low, he can't get back. His boat drafts 18", if that. One of those skiff boats.

Most people don't think of areas like that when they think of Florida.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 24, 2023, 08:41:51 AM

Isn't a lot of the coastal land north of Tampa protected?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 24, 2023, 08:42:43 AM

plenty of folks live on the water that don't have a boat

same with folks that live on the golf course but don't play

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 24, 2023, 08:50:02 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 24, 2023, 08:41:51 AM

Isn't a lot of the coastal land north of Tampa protected?

Quite a bit of it is - correct.

But not all of it. Lots of people like to live on the water, as FF noted, but most don't want to live on something like this:


(https://i.imgur.com/gF5oM5u.png)

These days, there is no way to even get a development in an area like this permitted. And rightfully so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 24, 2023, 08:52:02 AM

Maybe someone should sell that swampland in Florida ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 24, 2023, 08:59:04 AM

It's worthless, of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 24, 2023, 09:19:45 AM

Here is a chart from a part of the area in question.

(https://i.imgur.com/WWjEMp5.png)

And another. Very shallow waters.

(https://i.imgur.com/l6d63cP.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 24, 2023, 09:24:13 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 23, 2023, 06:16:31 PM

Split the baby.

Everyone living in expensive cold places should move to Florida and Texas. Each is a paradise on earth and has plenty of room and need of more newcomers.

(https://i.imgur.com/fcLcvGM.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 24, 2023, 09:57:21 AM

That section of the Gulf coast is also very prone to storm surge. Hurricane Michael put 4 or more feet of moving seawater across most of that area.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 24, 2023, 10:11:53 AM

In some spots it was 20 feet. It's so shallow there, and the waves/surge reflect off the bottom. It's a bad recipe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 24, 2023, 10:12:49 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/2IU8gaj.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 24, 2023, 03:03:11 PM

Well, it's now official. Governor DeSantis is in the race.

I really wish he wasn't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 24, 2023, 03:07:47 PM

I wish Trump and Biden were NOT in the race

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 24, 2023, 03:11:44 PM

Well, yeah, of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 24, 2023, 04:13:19 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 24, 2023, 03:03:11 PM

Well, it's now official. Governor DeSantis is in the race.

I really wish he wasn't.

If he makes it far enough, his general election pivot will be interesting to see. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 24, 2023, 04:21:15 PM

DeSantis has no shot at winning the GOP nomination imo. Big mistake on his part imo. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 24, 2023, 04:58:12 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 24, 2023, 04:21:15 PM

DeSantis has no shot at winning the GOP nomination imo. Big mistake on his part imo.

Agreed. He's great for Florida but not mainstream enough for most of the country. Would much rather Florida ditch term limits for Governor than have him run for POTUS.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 24, 2023, 05:17:11 PM

He'd probably be the favorite if Trump is forced out which is a possibility.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 24, 2023, 05:41:33 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 24, 2023, 05:17:11 PM

He'd probably be the favorite if Trump is forced out which is a possibility.

The MSM-who wants Trump as the nominee- has already been focusing their attacks on DeSantis. 

And Trump is spending millions on attack ads against him, as opposed tothe opposition party   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 24, 2023, 05:44:27 PM

Those attack ads are paid for by some PAC (which I suppose is the same thing in a sense).

There is some chance, I think it small, Trump incurs serious legal troubles, beyond what's already known.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 24, 2023, 06:04:34 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 24, 2023, 04:21:15 PM

DeSantis has no shot at winning the GOP nomination imo. Big mistake on his part imo.

But he would have a much better chance of beating Biden - as the polls have consistently indicate 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 24, 2023, 06:05:52 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 24, 2023, 05:44:27 PM

Those attack ads are paid for by some PAC (which I suppose is the same thing in a sense).

There is some chance, I think it small, Trump incurs serious legal troubles, beyond what's already known.

Yes- it’s called “The Make America Great Again PAC”.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 24, 2023, 06:07:15 PM

GOP chair ‘speechless’ after senior FBI official says she hasn’t read Durham report | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4017998-gop-chair-speechless-after-senior-fbi-official-says-she-hasnt-read-durham-report/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 24, 2023, 07:15:02 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 24, 2023, 06:04:34 PM

But he would have a much better chance of beating Biden - as the polls have consistently indicate

ideology > prudence

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 24, 2023, 07:39:41 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 24, 2023, 07:15:02 PM

ideology > prudence

Now that is funny.  🤣🤣

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 24, 2023, 07:47:28 PM

As I look forward to the 2024 election, all I can really think at this point is...

...we're wholly and truly f&$#@d. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 24, 2023, 11:19:30 PM

no worse than 2020 or 2016

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 24, 2023, 11:28:41 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 24, 2023, 07:47:28 PM

As I look forward to the 2024 election, all I can really think at this point is...

...we're wholly and truly f&$#@d.

This is "okay" for 1 or 2 election cycles.  
If it gets to be 4-5-6 of them and neither side turns their brains on, our country will be in actual trouble.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 24, 2023, 11:42:49 PM

I think we are on #4 or 5

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 24, 2023, 11:47:36 PM

The dynastic stuff was bad enough with the Bushes and Clintons.  And with both parties so radicalized, it's REALLY the lesser of two evils from both sides....which is still choosing between shit sandwiches.
.
Out of 350,000,000 people, this is what we got?  Really? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 24, 2023, 11:48:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 24, 2023, 05:17:11 PM

He'd probably be the favorite if Trump is forced out which is a possibility.

I think at this point that has to be at least part of his thinking.  

Also note that polarization creates a major legal problem for Trump, Jury selection.  If he gets tried in Manhattan, that is an area that typically votes something like 90% D.  Can Trump realistically get a fair trial from a deck stacked that strongly against him?  

If you think about it, the country is something like 50/50 so a random "national" jury would be something like:

• 2 people who think Trump is guilty no matter what the charge and evidence are.  
• 2 people who think Trump is guilty but still want to at least see the prosecution go through the motions of presenting enough evidence that they can plausibly believe the charge.  
• 2 people who think Trump is probably guilty but will need to be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt.  
• 2 people who think Trump is probably not guilty but are open to being convinced beyond a reasonable doubt.  
• 2 people who think Trump is not guilty but still want to at least see his defense go through the motions of weakening the prosecution's case sufficiently that they can plausibly have reasonable doubt.  
• 2 people who think Trump is not guilty no matter what the charge and evidence are.  

Realistically only groups #3 and #4 could even possibly be fair jurors.  

In Manhattan there are probably something like 3-4 of group #1, 3-4 of group #2, 3-4 of group #3 and no more than two total from groups #4-6.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 25, 2023, 12:03:59 AM

the date of the trial is set for March 2024 which really says it all as far as intent

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 25, 2023, 12:06:15 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 24, 2023, 11:48:31 PM

I think at this point that has to be at least part of his thinking. 

They guy isn't gonna get knocked around bad enough to impact any of that (I kinda doubt it'll matter at all).

TBH, the actual curveball is someone dies. If the current fella dies, no one worthwhile on the bench. If the last fella dies, the Florida fella steps in and we see how it goes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 25, 2023, 12:08:10 AM

When hes found quilty it will be appealed and eventually reversed

One only has to look at the facts in the case to see that its easily reversable

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 25, 2023, 12:37:39 AM

I think it was in this thread but it is buried now, we were talking about High Speed Rail.  

Several of us commented that, at present, Amtrack is generally slower than driving and more expensive than flying.  

I think that as a big picture thing, that statement really reveals how far we are away from viable HSR.  If our existing trains already cost more than flying, then we need to speed them up BY A LOT and somehow massively reduce the price at the same time.  It shouldn't take a genius to figure out that probably isn't going to happen anytime soon.  

I posted Population densities for the US and some other major developed nations and the US is MUCH less densely populated.  This fact is why mass transit is so much less useful here.  Mass transit needs density in order to have enough potential customers to be viable and with a few notable exceptions we simply don't have that density here.  

Another factor is that on the economic side of things my understanding is that most European nations subsidize their rail transit in part by taxing gasoline and diesel fuel.  That really turbocharges things because it hits both sides of the equation.  The fuel taxes make auto travel more expensive and simultaneously the rail subsidies make rail travel less expensive.  

Then I have a question, how fast does HSR have to be to make it plausible?  

I was thinking about it in terms of something related to this board, going to a CFB game.  

I live in Medina (hence the name) and the drive to Ohio State is just over 100 mi.  It takes a little under two hours depending on traffic and how fast you drive.  I've made it in under 90 minutes but not on a gameday.  Per google it is 109 mi and takes 1:43 (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Public+Square,+Medina,+OH+44256,+USA/Ohio+Stadium,+411+Woody+Hayes+Dr,+Columbus,+OH+43210/@40.5680229,-83.100538,9z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x8830c81e80eac549:0x1c918ea67b0eda8e!2m2!1d-81.8626158!2d41.1385834!1m5!1m1!1s0x88388e9401f27f55:0x4b4983cd164998a5!2m2!1d-83.0197277!2d40.0016627!3e0?authuser=0&entry=ttu).  

This seems like the range where HSR could theoretically work.  It isn't far enough to fly but it is far enough that a lot of people might not like the drive.  If there was an express 200 MPH train that went from Medina to the tOSU campus, that would be great.  I could make the trip in a little over half an hour.  

That obviously doesn't work though because Medina (pop, 28K) doesn't have enough people to justify trains to Columbus.  This introduces a major problem.  Realistically the train would probably go from downtown Cleveland (Tower City where the RTA, Cleveland's local trains are) to downtown Columbus (I'll just use the Statehouse).  Per google that trip is 142mi and takes 2:10 by car (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Tower+City+Parking,+Canal+Road,+Cleveland,+OH/Ohio+Statehouse,+Capitol+Square,+Columbus,+OH/@40.7263406,-82.9720027,9z/data=!3m2!4b1!5s0x88388e90c0e536b5:0xe8791c9dc8b3420f!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x8830f07eda052845:0xc7cbbdd18e5d1cb0!2m2!1d-81.6934257!2d41.4963352!1m5!1m1!1s0x88388f3165d8ff1b:0x61a04b581c54213a!2m2!1d-82.9994553!2d39.9600979!3e0?authuser=0&entry=ttu).  Now even a 200MPH train would take take about 45 minutes.  That is still pretty good except that it would take me more than 45 minutes to get to downtown Cleveland, park, and get to the train.  Thus it would take me at least 90 minutes to get to downtown Columbus and then I'd still have to get from there to Ohio Stadium.  The trip is now longer than simply driving there.  

This sounds like a HS math problem:

• Two people leave Medina at 8 am.  MedinaBuckeye1 drives South on I71 at the 70 MPH posted speed limit.  MedinaBuckeye2 drives North on I71 to Tower City then, boards a waiting train, then travels South at 200MPH.  At what point does MB2 overtake MB1.  
• After MB2 passes MB1, he goes too far then has to travel back north from the Statehouse to Ohio Stadium, a distance of 6.4 mi. 
• How quickly must MB2 travel that distance in order to beat MB1 to the Stadium? 
• Tower City is 33 miles the wrong way and in the 45 minutes that it took MB2 to drive to Tower City, MB1 travelled 52.5 mi in the right direction.  MB2 then began gaining on MB1 at a rate of

Tower City is 33 miles the wrong way.  In the 45 minutes that it takes MB2 to drive to Tower City and board a train, MB1 will have travelled 52.5 miles in the right direction so when MB2 starts travelling on the train he will be 85.5 miles behind MB1.  Then he'll gain on MB1 at 130 MPH.  Thus, he'll catch MB1 in almost exactly 2/3 of an hour (so a total of 85 minutes after departure or 9:25 am at a point roughly 100 mi South of Medina.  

Problem:
The Stadium is just over 100 miles South of Medina.  By the time MB2 catches up to MB1, MB1 is about to take the exit ramp and park.  If MB2 could just jump off the train there, that might work but he can't.  He has to go another ~12 miles then get off the train, then take some form of transportation back to roughly where he passed MB1.  

In my example I made the train go 200 MPH which is ~3x as fast as driving and I don't think the numbers work.  It probably would need to be closer to 4x the speed of driving or 250-300 MPH to make it a seriously attractive option but I have to assume that costs rise exponentially with speed so while it is technologically feasible it would probably be insanely expensive.  

I love the idea of HSR in theory but in practice I just can't come up with a way.  

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 25, 2023, 12:06:15 AM

They guy isn't gonna get knocked around bad enough to impact any of that (I kinda doubt it'll matter at all).

TBH, the actual curveball is someone dies. If the current fella dies, no one worthwhile on the bench. If the last fella dies, the Florida fella steps in and we see how it goes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 25, 2023, 12:48:56 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 25, 2023, 12:06:15 AM

TBH, the actual curveball is someone dies. If the current fella dies, no one worthwhile on the bench. If the last fella dies, the Florida fella steps in and we see how it goes.

Do you think Biden did that on purpose?  

If he'd chosen his running mate on merit they might be a viable option to replace him and he might get replaced but instead he chose he running mate on diversity points and she isn't really a viable option to replace him.  That seems like insurance for him, no?  

Your underlying point is a good one.  Trump and Biden are 76 (turns 77 in June) and 80 (turns 81 in November).  Per some site I found (not vouching for accuracy but it seems reasonable) an American Man 75-84 has a roughly 5% chance of dying in a given year.  From 65-74 the chance is about 2% and at 85+ the chance is 14%.  Biden and Trump are both in that 75-84 group and Biden is in the second half of it so their chances of dying in a given year are probably approaching 10%.  If Biden gets reelected at 81 and begins a second term at 82 his chance of dying in any given year would have to be around 10% during the second term.  Assuming a 90% chance of surviving each year, that still only works out to a roughly two in three chance of surviving the whole term.  Throw Trump into the mix and I would be fairly confident that the chance of both still being alive at the end of the Presidential term elected in 2024 are less than 50/50.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 25, 2023, 12:58:58 AM

In baseball, if they're going to have a salary cap, I say there should also be a minimum.

Same here (in reverse), if you're going to have a minimum age to qualify to be the president, a maximum would make sense.  I'd probably make it 60 or so.  Yeah, plenty of people are "there" in their 70s, but go chill and live your life.  Old-as-hell people can get cabinet positions or whatever, but to be the main person, we simply need to play the percentages that you're all "there.."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2023, 06:02:58 AM

I'd like term and age limits, but neither is going to happen, so I don't pine for them, no matter how logical they could seem to be.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on May 25, 2023, 08:25:30 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 19, 2023, 12:21:56 AM

Comfortable is the key word there. 
Comfort.
With comfort comes leisure.  If not time for leisure activities, then time for leisurely thoughts and ideas.
That's wealth, imo.

What difference does it really make, and why bother to even point it out?  It's not like somebody has taken something out of your pocket to get there? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on May 25, 2023, 08:27:38 AM

This might work.  The problem with Bud Light isn't with the beer, if you like light beer.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/stores-sell-bud-light-free-mulvaney-backlash-continues (https://www.foxnews.com/media/stores-sell-bud-light-free-mulvaney-backlash-continues)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 25, 2023, 08:52:27 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 25, 2023, 12:48:56 AM

Do you think Biden did that on purpose? 

If he'd chosen his running mate on merit they might be a viable option to replace him and he might get replaced but instead he chose he running mate on diversity points and she isn't really a viable option to replace him.  That seems like insurance for him, no? 

No, becuase that's really just a symptom of not having a great bench. It wasn't like the set of options was heavy on great choices (you can definitely argue against the choice he made, but it's not like the other options were worlds more palatable).

The interesting thing is that neither party is producing many people with what I'd call "normie" energy. For the moment, that's the best thing the current president has going for him, comparatively. If someone on the right could generate enough of that, he or she would be in a great spot in the general (assuming survival in the primary). 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2023, 08:58:20 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on May 25, 2023, 08:27:38 AM

This might work.  The problem with Bud Light isn't with the beer, if you like light beer.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/stores-sell-bud-light-free-mulvaney-backlash-continues (https://www.foxnews.com/media/stores-sell-bud-light-free-mulvaney-backlash-continues)

Exactly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2023, 08:58:47 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 25, 2023, 08:52:27 AM

No, becuase that's really just a symptom of not having a great bench. It wasn't like the set of options was heavy on great choices (you can definitely argue against the choice he made, but it's not like the other options were worlds more palatable).

The interesting thing is that neither party is producing many people with what I'd call "normie" energy. For the moment, that's the best thing the current president has going for him, comparatively. If someone on the right could generate enough of that, he or she would be in a great spot in the general (assuming survival in the primary).

Normie? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 25, 2023, 09:14:57 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on May 25, 2023, 12:08:10 AM

When hes found quilty it will be appealed and eventually reversed

One only has to look at the facts in the case to see that its easily reversable

Reversed on what grounds? From the US Courts of Appeal website (https://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/court-role-and-structure/about-us-courts-appeals):

Quote

The appellate courts do not retry cases or hear new evidence. They do not hear witnesses testify. 

No matter what else happens in New York, Trump's biggest known legal problem is in Georgia. That's the main reason why DeSantis got in. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 25, 2023, 09:20:37 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2023, 08:58:47 AM

Normie?

Yeah. I.e., not too culture war embroiled/too online that you’ll be offputting to much of the electorate. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2023, 09:22:06 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 25, 2023, 08:52:27 AM

 It wasn't like the set of options was heavy on great choices (you can definitely argue against the choice he made, but it's not like the other options were worlds more palatable).

I think any other choice would be more palatable, at least to me.  The former mayor of Atlanta (K. L. Bottoms) for example is able to speak coherently and is reasonably likeable.  Even Stacey Abrams sound coherent when she speaks.  This presumes he'd only choose a black female.

I think Harris was the worst of the bunch by a good measure, unlikeable, incoherent, a political anchor, doesn't aid in home state, ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2023, 09:24:49 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 25, 2023, 09:20:37 AM

Yeah. I.e., not too culture war embroiled/too online that you’ll be offputting to much of the electorate.

Takes two to tango in any "war" (unless you invade a country(s) for no apparent reason, of course).

A whole lot of stuff is not "normal" right now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2023, 09:27:43 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 25, 2023, 09:22:06 AM

I think any other choice would be more palatable, at least to me.  The former mayor of Atlanta (K. L. Bottoms) for example is able to speak coherently and is reasonably likeable.  Even Stacey Abrams sound coherent when she speaks.  This presumes he'd only choose a black female.

I think Harris was the worst of the bunch by a good measure, unlikeable, incoherent, a political anchor, doesn't aid in home state, ...

There have been a lot of VP's in my lifetime, and I can't think of one worse. She has to be kept in hiding if she has any other ambitions. Being in hiding worked in 2020, so it can presumably work again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 25, 2023, 09:30:14 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2023, 09:24:49 AM

Takes two to tango in any "war" (unless you invade a country(s) for no apparent reason, of course).

A whole lot of stuff is not "normal" right now.

That’s what I mean. If a candidate can give the sense of normalcy, that is advantageous, in my mind. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2023, 09:31:16 AM

I don't think she is electable nationally, the dislike ratio is way too high, and the like ratio is nowhere.  There will be a normal campaign this time around, she;ll have to be fairly public in her speaking, same with Joe.  Neither are very impressive at it, it's amazing either have any political success at all beyond may town councilperson where no one else is running.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 25, 2023, 09:33:15 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 25, 2023, 09:22:06 AM

I think any other choice would be more palatable, at least to me.  The former mayor of Atlanta (K. L. Bottoms) for example is able to speak coherently and is reasonably likeable.  Even Stacey Abrams sound coherent when she speaks.  This presumes he'd only choose a black female.

I think Harris was the worst of the bunch by a good measure, unlikeable, incoherent, a political anchor, doesn't aid in home state, ...

My guess from a pure strategy point was that Harris, at the time, had less baggage, more name recognition.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2023, 09:46:12 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 25, 2023, 09:30:14 AM

That’s what I mean. If a candidate can give the sense of normalcy, that is advantageous, in my mind.

That is cloudy too.

Normal to me may not be normal to you, for example. (Not saying that is the case)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 25, 2023, 10:11:46 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2023, 09:46:12 AM

That is cloudy too.

Normal to me may not be normal to you, for example. (Not saying that is the case)

Oh don’t I know it (not between us, but between myself and others)

And I might be wrong. This might well be a year where having aggressively online/cable news brain carries the day. For now I’m skeptical of that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 25, 2023, 10:22:59 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on May 25, 2023, 09:14:57 AM

Reversed on what grounds? From the US Courts of Appeal website (https://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/court-role-and-structure/about-us-courts-appeals):



No matter what else happens in New York, Trump's biggest known legal problem is in Georgia. That's the main reason why DeSantis got in.

I could list many including the statute of limitations has passed but I really dont feel like jumping any further into this we will just have to sit and watch

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 25, 2023, 10:39:08 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2023, 09:46:12 AM

That is cloudy too.

Normal to me may not be normal to you, for example. (Not saying that is the case)

If we're equating "normal" to "not rocking the boat" then I think it's a dangerous path to travel, looking for a candidate that exhibits and maintains "normalcy."

Trump was an asshole who made mean tweets, and Biden doesn't do that, indeed Biden doesn't seem to do much of anything.  This doesn't mean that Biden's policies are any better than Trump's.  In some cases, his inaction is much more dangerous IMO, than Trump's overbearing dick-headed bull-in-a-China-shop approach.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 25, 2023, 11:06:03 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 25, 2023, 06:02:58 AM

I'd like term and age limits, but neither is going to happen, so I don't pine for them, no matter how logical they could seem to be.

Term Limits are a pet peeve of mine.  

I'll state to start that I fully realize that I am in the minority and it is a very small minority here.  I know that, so no need to point it out.  

That said, they are a disaster.  We enacted them for State Legislators a few years ago and I'll tell you the end results:
 - Cross-aisle cooperation in the State House has almost completely disappeared.  Several reasons for this:

• With term limits the individual Legislators are not going to be around long enough to care about functional working relationships with Legislators on the other side of the aisle.  If you and I were opposite party but reasonably expected to be in the Legislature for 15-20 or more years, we could build a rapport that would be useful to both of us down the road.  Now that we KNOW we only have eight years, by the time we are in a position to actually do anything we only have MAYBE four years left, what good is a rapport with some other guy who is also going to be gone even sooner?  
• If I cooperate cross-aisle it irks my party and kills my post-Legislature job prospects.  
• Legislators from opposite parties simply aren't together long enough to learn who they can disagree with but still work with and who is just an enemy.  

 - The Governor has gotten a LOT more powerful.  Before term limits the Legislators had their own power bases.  They were WELL KNOWN names in their districts who were likely to hold on to their seats for many years regardless of what the Governor thought of them.  Now, the Legislators need a new job in a few years and haven't been around long so they are in no position to fight with a Governor from their own party.  
 - The Parties have become MUCH more powerful.  This is due to the Legislators' need to find a new job in a few years.  When Legislators could stay in the Legislature as long as they could get reelected they didn't need the party to find them a job in eight years but now they do.  Consequently, bucking the party has become MUCH more risky.  
 - The bureaucrats have become much more powerful.  Back before term limits, if I was a bad bureaucrat, and you were a Legislator, you *MIGHT* be able to get rid of me.  Now, I KNOW I'll be here longer than you so I could care less.  Also, since you are here for only a short time, by the time you know I'm a bad bureaucrat, you are already on your way out the door.  
 - The Lobbyists have become much more powerful.  Since the Legislators are all new and have no idea what is going on, the Lobbyists write all the legislation.  


Bottom line, if you say you are for term limits, understand that what you mean is that you want less bipartisanship, more powerful lobbyists, more powerful parties, and worse bureaucrats.  You can't have term limits without those things.  

That said, I don't know how I feel about age limits.  On the surface they seem like a really good idea but I see them as very similar to term limits.  They are an inherently anti-democratic "cure" to a symptom of a much larger problem.  

Why do people support them (both term limits and age limits):
We support them because we aren't happy with the officials that we elected.  Well . . . we SHOULD fix that by electing better officials.  We don't so we enact anti-democratic term limits and age limits and nothing changes because we haven't fixed the underlying problem.  We still elect officials that we are not happy with but now we turn them over more often and they are younger.  

Part of it is that we (as an electorate) simply are not "engaged".  Ohio enacted the age limit for Judges because there were some ridiculous situations with elderly judges unable to manage a courtroom because they had declined physically and mentally getting reelected.  We (the electorate) *SHOULD* have solved that by learning the situation and voting out the few elderly judges that were simply unable to do the job.  Instead we solved it by sweeping out all 70+ judges including a LOT of very good judges that could still do their jobs.  

Part of it is polarization.  In the 2022 Senate elections most Republican leaning voters in Georgia and most Democratic leaning voters in Pennsylvania voted for candidates that were mentally challenged (to put it VERY nicely).  Why?  Well, they did it because we are so polarized that most voters now believe that "My teams' moron is better than the other teams' genius."  Honestly, I don't even blame them.  As a Republican I'll admit that Chuck Schumer is absolutely a genius.  That said, if he was an Ohio Senator rather than a New York Senator and his Republican opponent was a moron, I can't say that I wouldn't vote for the Republican moron rather than the Democratic genius because I'd assume that the Republican would vote the way I wanted more often.  Pennsylvania Democrats made exactly that mental calculation when they voted for their moron Senator and Georgia Republicans made the same calculation when they voted for Herschel.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 25, 2023, 11:11:44 AM

Well said, medina.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 25, 2023, 11:16:47 AM

I tend to agree with Medina about term limits. It’s unfortunate because you want to avoid the staleness and politics as usual, but it’s also a skill that takes a while to learn. 

You’d also then build a class of unelected experts (lobbyists or advisors) who were good at being legislators and then prop up the new confused folks. I assume you have that already, but now it’s on overdrive, 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 25, 2023, 11:19:31 AM

- Cross-aisle cooperation in the State House has almost completely disappeared.  Several reasons for this:

this has disappeared at almost all levels
not sure how much of the reason is term limits

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 25, 2023, 11:24:32 AM

Quote from: utee94 on May 25, 2023, 10:39:08 AM

If we're equating "normal" to "not rocking the boat" then I think it's a dangerous path to travel, looking for a candidate that exhibits and maintains "normalcy."

Trump was an asshole who made mean tweets, and Biden doesn't do that, indeed Biden doesn't seem to do much of anything.  This doesn't mean that Biden's policies are any better than Trump's.  In some cases, his inaction is much more dangerous IMO, than Trump's overbearing dick-headed bull-in-a-China-shop approach.

I think I’m equating normalcy with presenting like an adult and not talking like someone who spends a lot of time in the cable news/political online sphere trying to talk to folks from that sphere. I think that’s a hard base for a coalition.

And that’s not even really talking about what’s “better” for the country. I’m just talking electability and some general presentation. For the most part, I assume most recent presidents’ “policies” are more reflective of party behind them than anything else. I’m sure some are mor dominant in setting those policies, but I’m guessing those moments aren’t super, super common.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2023, 11:28:51 AM

"We" can forget how fractured the country was ca. 1968.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 25, 2023, 11:29:16 AM

As noted, I have yet to hear a good argument from any quarter for term limits, other than "Throw the bums out!" Which you can do at the next election.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 25, 2023, 11:31:04 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 25, 2023, 11:16:47 AM

I tend to agree with Medina about term limits. It’s unfortunate because you want to avoid the staleness and politics as usual, but it’s also a skill that takes a while to learn.

I meant to delve into this in my post and forgot to mention it.  This is a very important point.  

No candidate for State Legislature could admit this but realistically all but a VERY few will have no idea how things ACTUALLY work upon arrival as a new Legislator.  It takes time to figure this out.  I'd say probably 3-4 years.  In Ohio the Legislative Term Limits are eight years so you now have effectively two classes of Legislators:

• Those who are still figuring out what is going on, and
• Those who are looking for their next job.  

If Legislators served an average of 15 or 20 years then only a quarter to a third of them would be "figuring things out" at any give time.  With eight year term limits it is close to half in Ohio.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 25, 2023, 11:41:50 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 25, 2023, 11:31:04 AM

I meant to delve into this in my post and forgot to mention it.  This is a very important point. 

No candidate for State Legislature could admit this but realistically all but a VERY few will have no idea how things ACTUALLY work upon arrival as a new Legislator.  It takes time to figure this out.  I'd say probably 3-4 years.  In Ohio the Legislative Term Limits are eight years so you now have effectively two classes of Legislators:

• Those who are still figuring out what is going on, and
• Those who are looking for their next job. 

If Legislators served an average of 15 or 20 years then only a quarter to a third of them would be "figuring things out" at any give time.  With eight year term limits it is close to half in Ohio. 

There was a story from a town I used to live in where a local state rep proposed a silly, headline garnering law that touched in sports in his first couple months in office.

Years later he would always get asked about it and would explain that he didn’t really know how things worked and would’ve approached it much differently.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 25, 2023, 11:49:13 AM

There has to be a compromise in between. 

So many of these people in office, stay there too long, and clearly are not focused on resolving issues and improving the world, but rather doing whatever it takes to get reelected and leveraging their position to make personal income by other means.

There is little Cross the aisle  compromise today. In fact, it has become damn near nonexistent.

Perhaps term limits that are moderately generous- like 8 years. 

What we have now clearly is not working.  Mostly bloviating idiots who say what they say to get votes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 25, 2023, 12:01:14 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 25, 2023, 11:49:13 AM

There has to be a compromise in between. 

So many of these people in office, stay there too long, and clearly are not focused on resolving issues and improving the world, but rather doing whatever it takes to get reelected and leveraging their position to make personal income by other means.

There is little Cross the aisle  compromise today. In fact, it has become damn near nonexistent.

Perhaps term limits that are moderately generous- like 8 years. 

What we have now clearly is not working.  Mostly bloviating idiots who say what they say to get votes. 

Yet, "we" keep electing them. Politicians can only stay there too long if we allow them to... Every 2 years in the House, and every 6 in the Senate, we have the opportunity to get rid of them. 

Congress has horrible approval ratings but averaging >90% reelection rates in the House and >80% in the Senate. https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/reelection-rates

If you're not happy with a candidate, vote for the other one. If you're unwilling to do that because they're in a "safe" district and you refuse to vote for the other party, work your butt off to elect a different candidate in the primary. 

Seems like term limits are applying a chainsaw to a problem that could be solved with a scalpel. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2023, 12:05:49 PM

OK, forget term limits.

How about age limits, or cognitive testing after a certain age?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 25, 2023, 12:12:45 PM

I like the idea of mandatory retirement far more than term limits. Pilots are out at 65, air traffic controllers at 56, and federal law enforcement at 57.

If a candidate you don't like keeps getting re-elected in blowouts, perhaps it would behoove challengers to ask why no one is buying what they're selling, and attempt to make adjustments.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 25, 2023, 12:20:06 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2023, 12:05:49 PM

OK, forget term limits.

How about age limits, or cognitive testing after a certain age?

How about cognitive testing at ANY age? :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2023, 12:26:50 PM

Quote from: utee94 on May 25, 2023, 12:20:06 PM

How about cognitive testing at ANY age? :)

I almost posted this. I was thinking any candidate, including incumbent ones, should be required to submit to a test no later than 6 months prior to the election date. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 25, 2023, 12:29:41 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2023, 12:05:49 PM

OK, forget term limits.

How about age limits, or cognitive testing after a certain age?

I'm not sure some of them could pass cognitive testing at ANY age lol... The hard part about cognitive testing beyond a certain age is determining a cognitive test that is 100% objective, because any subjectivity (i.e. having a certified psychologist performing an exam) could cause the appearance of political motivation, or the actuality of political motivation, in determining who is deemed fit for office. 

I'm actually not necessarily opposed to age limits. However I'm not sure they could reasonably be set at an age that would make much difference. Legislating, unlike being a pilot, is an intellectual endeavor. When it comes to age-generated cognitive decline, we're not talking about mandatory retirement at 65 like pilots, unless we're going to make the argument that those who are 65 or older are unworthy of being trusted with nearly anything in life. The world is full of those who are 65+ and sharp as a tack. So what if you set it at 80? It appears only 15 House members and 4 Senate members are over 80. I'd be fine setting it at 80. But it IMHO isn't going to fix anything.  

The question I have is... Do you think either of these solutions will actually make a meaningful change in our quality of governance? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2023, 12:29:51 PM

It be interesting to administer the naturalization test to current members and see who failed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 25, 2023, 12:30:16 PM

They all should be required to submit to a test randomly while in office

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2023, 12:32:36 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 25, 2023, 12:29:41 PM

The question I have is... Do you think either of these solutions will actually make a meaningful change in our quality of governance?

I do not, and in any event, these changes can't be achieved practicably.  

Most bills that pass Congress pass because members vote how they are told to vote anyway.  Many of the members could be automatons for all it matters.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2023, 12:41:41 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 25, 2023, 12:29:41 PM

I'm not sure some of them could pass cognitive testing at ANY age lol...   

The question I have is... Do you think either of these solutions will actually make a meaningful change in our quality of governance?

1. Agreed. It's amazing how some of these people get elected.

2. Meaningful change? I don't know, but something has to give.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 25, 2023, 12:51:10 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 25, 2023, 12:01:14 PM

Yet, "we" keep electing them. Politicians can only stay there too long if we allow them to... Every 2 years in the House, and every 6 in the Senate, we have the opportunity to get rid of them.

Congress has horrible approval ratings but averaging >90% reelection rates in the House and >80% in the Senate. https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/reelection-rates

If you're not happy with a candidate, vote for the other one. If you're unwilling to do that because they're in a "safe" district and you refuse to vote for the other party, work your butt off to elect a different candidate in the primary.

Seems like term limits are applying a chainsaw to a problem that could be solved with a scalpel.

All easier said than done.  The long term incumbent has enormous advantages that they use to “ attain” votes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 25, 2023, 12:59:45 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2023, 12:41:41 PM

2. Meaningful change? I don't know, but something has to give.

Yeah, but for Congressional qualifications to change, you need a Constitutional Amendment. Given how hard it is to put one of those through, I'd at least demand that we write one that we believe will make a meaningful improvement. 

Personally I'd go all the way to a proportional representation system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_representation) rather than the direct representation system we have today. The truth is that effectively everyone already votes for party rather than candidate when it comes to Congress, and that everything in Congress is driven by party such that individual candidates follow the party line on votes. So why keep up the charade that direct representation means anything in our modern electorate. 

It would also have the advantage of answering the question of "why can't we have third parties" for the many of us whose beliefs aren't well captured by either party, because our electoral system doesn't allow for stable configurations beyond two parties. Proportional representation does allow for that. 

Age limits, term limits, and cognitive tests are just playing at the margins IMHO and won't actually get us better governance. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on May 25, 2023, 02:13:17 PM

We enacted term limits for Presidents for the simple fact that a popular president is very hard to get out of office and thus they become very powerful.  I have no doubt that Raegan would have made a 3rd and possibly a 4th term if he was allowed.  Recall that by the mid-90's he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, and there is much talk of him showing signs when he was still in office.  I clearly remember the amount of age jokes that were said about Raegan and he was much younger than either Trump or Biden, or at least a bit younger.  

The fact is the longer they stay the more powerful they become.  

I'd put the limit at 12 years for congressmen (6 terms) and 18 for senators ( 3 terms).  For congressmen who become senators I'd limit them to 24 years total in either/both houses.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2023, 02:16:23 PM

Amendments are not going to happen any time soon, if ever.  And the other path is fraught with peril.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 25, 2023, 03:31:33 PM

Cognitive testing is subjective. Age isn't.

And speaking of age...

https://twitter.com/whstancil/status/1661809727385337878?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2023, 03:44:56 PM

Might lead to a debate on FDR...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2023, 03:55:28 PM

General Eisenhower "won" the war, and probably would have lost had it not been for Stalin's troops on the Eastern front. For his efforts, Stalin was "rewarded" with countries on the other side of the Iron Curtain, which he occupied during the war.

(https://i.imgur.com/MUIrI53.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 25, 2023, 04:20:21 PM

Shoulda let Patton go ahead and do his thing in 1945.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2023, 04:34:08 PM

Probably. The course of the world would look much different today, in some shape or form.

And it would have been BLOODY.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 25, 2023, 04:40:34 PM

Quote from: Gigem on May 25, 2023, 02:13:17 PM

We enacted term limits for Presidents for the simple fact that a popular president is very hard to get out of office and thus they become very powerful.  I have no doubt that Raegan would have made a 3rd and possibly a 4th term if he was allowed.  Recall that by the mid-90's he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, and there is much talk of him showing signs when he was still in office.  I clearly remember the amount of age jokes that were said about Raegan and he was much younger than either Trump or Biden, or at least a bit younger.

This is a fair point. Until very recently Reagan was easily the oldest person to serve as President.


I looked it up, Reagan was born February 6, 1911 so he was:

• 69 when sworn in to his first term (1/20/81) and turned 70 a few weeks into that first term.
• 73 when sworn in to his second term (1/20/85) and turned 74 a few weeks into his second term.
• 77 whe he left office (1/20/89) and turned 78 a few weeks into retirement.

By comparison the two candidates last time and the leading candidates for the 2024 election are Biden who was born November 20, 1942 and Trump who was born June 14, 1946. They are/will be:

• Trump was 74 when he left office on 1/20/2021
• Biden was 78 when he took office on 1/20/2021
• Trump will be 78 at the 2025 inauguration
• Biden will be 82 at the 2025 inauguration
• Trump will be 82 at the end of the term elected in 2024
• Biden will be 86 at the end of the term elected in 2024

This issue showing up on both sides of the aisle at the same time is odd. Consider:

• Either Trump or Biden would have been the oldest person ever elected President in 2020.
• If either Trump or Biden are elected in 2024 they will be the oldest person ever elected President.
• Biden is already the oldest person to ever hold the office. 
• If Trump wins in 2024, and survives in office long enough, he will become the oldest person to ever hold the office on August 14, 2028 with a little more than five months left in the term.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 25, 2023, 04:48:13 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2023, 04:34:08 PM

Probably. The course of the world would look much different today, in some shape or form.

And it would have been BLOODY.

except we were the only one with the bomb then

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2023, 05:02:02 PM

We did not yet have the bomb

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on May 25, 2023, 05:12:41 PM

...and even when we did, we were kinda bluffing.  We spent alot of time and money to make fat man and little boy.  We used them in a maximum "shock and awe" manner with the implication that we had many more to use if Hiroshima and Nagasaki didn't convince them.  In reality, we had one more core ready to go (demon core), but it would have been at least another month or two before any more were ready to go.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 25, 2023, 05:26:20 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2023, 04:34:08 PM

Probably. The course of the world would look much different today, in some shape or form.

And it would have been BLOODY.

I once read an analysis that tried to guess at how things would have gone had either side decided to go to the mats in 1945/46.

Your suggestion that it would have been BLOODY is spot on. Both sides had advantages that it would have been extraordinarily difficult for the other to overcome.

The Soviets had a substantially larger and more powerful land army. They had more experience in land warfare and a better main tank.

The United States (even before including Britain) was vastly superior both quantitatively and qualitatively in both naval and air forces. Additionally, the United States had a much better logistical capability and a LOT more oil.

The conclusion was that a quick victory would have been unlikely for either side. The attacker would have likely had significant initial success based simply on the advantage of surprise but once that faded the two sides would likely have been dragged into a bloody stalemate.

If the Russians attacked first, they'd have had great initial success with their larger army and huge numbers of T34's. Their air force, however, would have been overmatched by the B24's, B17's, B29's, Lancasters, and Halifaxes (last two assumes that Britain joins in) and while they certainly would have shot some US Bombers down, they had virtually no Strategic Air Force of their own with which to retaliate.

Furthermore, the immediate end of American Lend Lease aid would have left the Soviets with finite quantities of certain critical supplies particularly jeeps, trucks, and locomotives.  This would have created a logistical nightmare that would have been made infinitely worse by their lack of spare parts for existing US-built equipment and by US Strategic air attacks on EXTREMELY long Soviet supply lines.

The Soviets would also have had to contend with a blockade that the US and Britain would obviously have instituted and the fact that with massive numbers of carriers and carrier aircraft available the US and Britain could have launched attacks anywhere along any coast and within a few hundred miles of shore with almost no warning. This would have forced the Soviets to try to defend an enormous amount of airspace that they simply wouldn't have had enough planes to defend leaving them vulnerable to random attacks basically anywhere the US happened to decide to pounce.

US Naval Supremecy and Air Superiority would have given the US a freedom of maneuver which would have made up for much of the USSR's numerical superiority because the US would have had a much greater ability to concentrate forces.

If the US had attacked first they would have had initial success with their superior air force but as you move East from western to Central to Eastern Europe the continent gets much larger North-to-South. At roughly the Franco-German border it is only about 600 miles from the North Sea to the Mediterranean but the distance from Sevastopol to Murmansk is many times that great. As the front line gets longer, the impact of air power is necessarily diluted. It becomes more of a numbers game and . . . The Soviets had the numbers.

Additionally, as both Napoleon and Hitler learned, Russia is really, Really, REALLY big.

It isn't even necessarily clear that the Atomic Bomb would have ended the war. When the US dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki the Japanese had almost no surviving airforce, less experienced pilots, and still less fuel. Furthermore, Japan is an island nation that by that time functionally had no navy so the B29's spent very little time over enemy territory. Bombing Moscow from France or Britain is an entirely different operation and you run the risk that a shot down aircraft may result in Soviet capture of an intact bomb and potential Soviet reverse engineering of same.

Ultimately I think that the US would have prevailed simply because in 1945 US GDP was roughly 50% of Global GDP and several times greater than Soviet GDP. This would have given the US the ability to build what they needed to win but it would have been insanely bloody.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 25, 2023, 05:28:12 PM

Quote from: grillrat on May 25, 2023, 05:12:41 PM

...and even when we did, we were kinda bluffing.  We spent alot of time and money to make fat man and little boy.  We used them in a maximum "shock and awe" manner with the implication that we had many more to use if Hiroshima and Nagasaki didn't convince them.  In reality, we had one more core ready to go (demon core), but it would have been at least another month or two before any more were ready to go.

When I visited Trinity the presentation suggested that by late 1945 the US would have been able to produce something like one bomb every week or two.

That isn't a lot but when one bomb wipes out one city you don't need many.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 25, 2023, 05:31:52 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on May 25, 2023, 11:29:16 AM

As noted, I have yet to hear a good argument from any quarter for term limits, other than "Throw the bums out!" Which you can do at the next election.

Up until very recently Ohio was a "bellwether" state meaning that the state was basically dead center nationally.  From 1964-2016 Ohio voted for the winning Presidential Candidate in all 14 Presidential elections.  Ohio did go for Nixon in 1960 but that was a VERY close election both in Ohio and Nationally so that isn't a major exception and Ohio had voted for the winners in a long string of elections prior to 1960.  The most recent exception prior to 1960 was in 1944 when Ohio voted for Dewey over Roosevelt but that can be explained by the fact that Dewey's running mate was Ohio's sitting Republican Governor.  

As such, all statewide elections in Ohio were pretty reflective of that national mood vis-a-vis the two parties.  When the R's were relatively more popular nationally they tended to do very well in Ohio and when the D's were relatively more popular nationally they tended to do very well in Ohio as well.  

Consequently, control of the Ohio Legislature and of Ohio's Congressional delegation more-or-less depended on who drew the maps*.  The D's drew the maps after the 1970 and 1980 censuses and they controlled Ohio's Legislature for most of the 1970's and 1980's.  The speaker of the Ohio House of Representatives for 20 years (1975-1994) was a Democrat named Vern Riffe.  A lot of Ohio Republicans just HATED him and supported term limits in part to get rid of him.  I always said to these people, look two things:

• If Vern Riffe is so awful, vote for someone else in his district.  
• If the real problem is that he has been speaker and his party has been the majority for 20 years, win enough districts to take that majority.  

Ohio's Republicans drew the maps after the 1990 census and won a majority in the Ohio Sate House in the 1994 elections but by then I think Term Limits had already passed.  

He was a proverbial "bum" at least according to most Ohio Republicans per your quote above and he DID get thrown out but even if you think that he WAS a bum, IMHO, a whole lot of baby got thrown out with the bathwater.  


*Ohio's State House of Representatives composition:

• Republicans first took control of the HoR shortly prior to the Civil War.  They then controlled the HoR nearly continuously all the way through 1910.  Note that Democrats did occasionally take over during that time but they never held on for more than two years (one cycle).  
• Democrats must have drawn the maps after the 1910 census because they controlled the HoR for the bulk of the teens.  
• Republicans must have drawn maps after the 1920 census and they maintained control (with a few two year exceptions) from the 1920's all the way up until the 1972 election.  
• Democrats drew the maps after the 1970 and 1980 elections and controlled the house consecutively all the way from 1973 through 1994 (it took Republicans two election cycles to regain control after drawing the post-1990 census maps).  
• After 22 years of Democratic control, Republicans retook control after the 1994 election and have held the Ohio HoR ever since except for one election cycle (2009-2010 where Democrats had a 53-46 majority from the 2008 election).  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 25, 2023, 05:54:41 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 25, 2023, 05:28:12 PM

When I visited Trinity the presentation suggested that by late 1945 the US would have been able to produce something like one bomb every week or two.

That isn't a lot but when one bomb wipes out one city you don't need many.

Without getting too deep into it, I think there was more willingness to drop a bomb on the Japanese than there would be on Europeans. 

You know, prevailing attitudes of the time, and all...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 25, 2023, 07:37:45 PM

I saw replicas of Fat Man and Little Boy at the museum in Los Alamos. 
.
One of those per month, every month, would eventually eliminate any country's will to fight.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 25, 2023, 08:03:13 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 25, 2023, 05:54:41 PM

Without getting too deep into it, I think there was more willingness to drop a bomb on the Japanese than there would be on Europeans.

You know, prevailing attitudes of the time, and all...

It was closer to the opposite and had more to do with productive capacity and the holocaust than race.

A number of the mostly Jewish scientists who designed the bomb were opposed to using it against Japan. One of their arguments was that Japan's economy was already wrecked so there was no realistic chance of them winning. 

Truman looked at the horrific losses against fanatical Japanese defenders at Iwo Jims and Okinawa and basically told the scientists to stay in their lane. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2023, 07:54:46 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 25, 2023, 05:54:41 PM

Without getting too deep into it, I think there was more willingness to drop a bomb on the Japanese than there would be on Europeans.

You know, prevailing attitudes of the time, and all...

Absolutely there was.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2023, 08:34:09 AM

There was no will to go to war with the Soviet Union in 1945, none.  We still had Japan to defeat and were far more interested in getting Stalin to help than to attack his forces (which were enormous, well equipped, and battle hardened).  It was not a consideration by anyone who was serious.  The US public was growing tired of war as it was.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 26, 2023, 09:06:26 AM

https://www.redfin.com/news/real-estate-local-home-price-growth-pandemic/

Home prices more “local” than ever

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2023, 09:46:45 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 26, 2023, 09:06:26 AM

https://www.redfin.com/news/real-estate-local-home-price-growth-pandemic/

Home prices more “local” than ever

Yay, Florida!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2023, 09:50:37 AM

The most popular college majors aren't the highest-paying – these degrees are, study finds (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/careers/the-most-popular-college-majors-aren-t-the-highest-paying-these-degrees-are-study-finds/ar-AA1bBsOF?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=6d50c9fbc29d4ed494601c1acacbdc2f&ei=8)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2023, 10:00:41 AM

If you've never visited Chicago and want to do so, you best get it done sooner than later.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/chicago-budget-plan-brandon-johnson-saqib-bhatti-acre-peoples-unity-platform-95c775c7?st=iuvi6pwdov86n7u&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2023, 10:20:59 AM

my visit in 2008 or so was great
not going back

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 26, 2023, 10:22:21 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 26, 2023, 08:34:09 AM

There was no will to go to war with the Soviet Union in 1945, none.  We still had Japan to defeat and were far more interested in getting Stalin to help than to attack his forces (which were enormous, well equipped, and battle hardened).  It was not a consideration by anyone who was serious.  The US public was growing tired of war as it was.

Agreed and as one example of this:
My dad was born in 1940. One of his oldest memories was of a little parade in the neighborhood when the war ended. He (just turned five) and everyone in the neighborhood celebrated the war's end.

His parents bought him a bicycle as soon as they could after that. Like nearly all Americans at the time, they had plenty of money but there was nothing to buy. His dad (grandfather I never met) had worked his regular job (at the Electric Company) then a second job at a local aluminum casting plant that made aircraft parts throughout the war. With his two jobs they had good income but many items were rationed and many others were simply unavailable.

The newest bicycles were from 1942 before the factory switched over to war production.

The newest civilian automobiles were the VERY few 1942 models* built in 1941 and EARLY 1942 before the auto plants switched over to war production.

This was true across industries. Families like my grandparents wanted to buy bicycles for their kids, new cars, washing machines, etc, etc.

One of the considerations in dropping the Atomic Bomb was a concern among US leadership that the American people would think that Germany's surrender meant that the war was over and their support for continuing the war against Japan would wane.

*Among car collectors, 1942 models are very valuable because they are so rare. Very few were made and the few that were tended to get used up during the war since they were the newest cars available.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2023, 10:31:12 AM

The A-bomb was not of much use tactically, anyway, though we didn't know it at that time.  Tactical nukes had not been developed.  Those might have been useful depending.

Soviet tanks of that era were not only incredible numerous but very advanced compared with even out M24.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 26, 2023, 10:32:08 AM

I haven't been to Chicago in at least 10 years. Maybe even 12. Used to go there often. Not every summer, but maybe every other before I moved to FL. No real desire to go there again if I'm being honest lol. I'd rather visit NYC if I want to visit a major city.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2023, 10:35:01 AM

I have really enjoyed visiting California, and we'll go back soonish.  The wine aspect is certainly one part of it.  I've yet to visit northern California past Lake County.

Utah us on our short list again, we really like Zion and want to see more of the NPs there.  Upstate NY is on my list somewhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2023, 10:36:21 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 26, 2023, 10:32:08 AM

I haven't been to Chicago in at least 10 years. Maybe even 12. Used to go there often. Not every summer, but maybe every other before I moved to FL. No real desire to go there again if I'm being honest lol. I'd rather visit NYC if I want to visit a major city.

Or just take the Brightline to Miami.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2023, 10:39:08 AM

We're gonna do a Boston/NH/Maine trip, maybe in 2024.

No interest in NYC, LA, Chicago, SF. 

Although we just got sucked into going to a ****'ing wedding in Malibu this August. Which means my feet have to touch LA.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 26, 2023, 10:44:29 AM

I have very little reason to ever go to LA, and I live an hour from there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2023, 10:47:31 AM

I used to LOVE visiting my BIL (RIP bro) in Belmont Shore. Really cool area.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2023, 10:47:39 AM

I plan to visit betarhoalphadelta some fine day.
and parts north of him, not south

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2023, 10:55:17 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 26, 2023, 10:47:39 AM

I plan to visit betarhoalphadelta some fine day.
and parts north of him, not south

Too far North of him is LA. If you're gonna head North from him, you best stop at Belmont Shore.

South of him is much better.

We used to day trip from Belmont to Dania on the PCH. Good times.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 26, 2023, 11:00:55 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2023, 07:54:46 AM

Absolutely there was.

No, there wasn't. This is false history pushed by anti-American leftists.

For starters, the Japanese were far more racist than Americans. Their entire worldview was shaped by a conceptual racial hierarchy with Japanese at the top.

In the summer of 1945 mopping up operations on Okinawa and Iwo Jima were underway and, since Germany had already surrendered, the British, Dutch, French, and Americans were transferring a fearsome amount of weaponry to the Pacific.

Japan never could have defeated an undistracted Britain let alone the United States. This statement is based on economics not race. Japan's economy was about one-third the size of Britain's and less than one-tenth the size of the US. Their leaders knew this and on some level understood the hopelessness of their situation. Their people were starving and their few remaining ships and planes were stranded due to lack of fuel. They could have surrendered at any time.

Instead of surrendering the leadership of Japan was sending instructions to their ambassador in Moscow to try to get the Soviets to mediate a peace on terms that anyone could see would be unacceptable to the US and Britain who had made abundantly clear that their terms were "unconditional surrender".

In their instructions to their ambassador in Moscow they were literally trying to use territories that they no longer possessed as bargaining chips.

The US and British leadership read the messages between Tokyo and their ambassador in Moscow because both Britain and the US had broken the Japanese diplomatic codes. Thus, Washington and London knew that Japan had not yet accepted the reality of their situation.

In the midst of all this Truman and the US leadership considered three basic options (Note that I've left Atlee out because although the British Pacific Fleet (BPF) was fantastically powerful by pre-war standards, by 1945 it was miniscule compared to the forces that the US had arrayed against Japan):

• Blockade. The Japanese were effectively out of fuel and rapidly heading toward mass starvation because they couldn’t produce enough food domestically to feed their population. The US blockade by this point was very nearly impenetrable so the argument for this option was to simply let the Japanese people starve until they got hungry enough to surrender.
• Invade. With the resources freed up by the end of the war in Europe the US had more than enough men and equipment to take the Japanese home islands by force. The main argument for this option was that it was the only one that was guaranteed to end the war.
• Atomic Bombs. The US leadership did understand the fearsome power of these weapons but they probably didn't fully appreciate it. One argument against the use of the bombs was that the firebombing campaign had been so successful that there weren't many Japanese cities left worth bombing.

Truman chose to pursue all three options. The blockade was continued, preparations for an invasion scheduled for November of 1945 went on, and two bombs were dropped.

That the bombs saved American lives is obvious. Allied planners had estimated a Million casualties in the planned invasion of Japan (Operation Downfall). The interesting thing is that the bombs actually saved far more Japanese lives. Japanese casualties defending on Okinawa and Iwo Jima were many times US casualties so their losses defending Honshu would easily have reached seven digits. Approximately one-quarter of the civilian population of Okinawa were either killed or committed suicide during the Battle of Okinawa.  Extrapolated out to the entire population of Japan that is around 17-18 Million people.  The blockade would have caused a substantial portion of Japan's population to literally die of starvation over the winter of 1945/46.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2023, 11:09:07 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 26, 2023, 11:00:55 AM

No, there wasn't. This is false history pushed by anti-American leftists.

I've often thought of that, but when I talk to my many Eurofriends and they think the same. As you said, Japan was already in ruin anyway. So why wreck Europe even more?

I'd like to learn more about this false history take. I'd hate to say I fell for it, but if I did, I'm happy to be corrected.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2023, 11:20:56 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2023, 10:55:17 AM

Too far North of him is LA. If you're gonna head North from him, you best stop at Belmont Shore.

South of him is much better.

We used to day trip from Belmont to Dania on the PCH. Good times.

WAAAY north
Monterey and further north

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 26, 2023, 11:22:51 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2023, 10:36:21 AM

Or just take the Brightline to Miami.

I'm only like an hr drive so I'd just drive if I can avoid the rush hour times. Is Miami a major city though? I don't know, maybe I've been here so long and been coming down here all my life I just don't really consider a major city. It's definitely becoming one though, that's for sure. It's changed so much in the last 20 years. Believe I read something that around half of the skyscrapers in Miami were built in the last 20 years or so. And they are building sh&t load more of them right now, and seems like a new one is announced every week.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2023, 11:28:23 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 26, 2023, 11:22:51 AM

I'm only like an hr drive so I'd just drive if I can avoid the rush hour times. Is Miami a major city though? I don't know, maybe I've been here so long and been coming down here all my life I just don't really consider a major city. It's definitely becoming one though, that's for sure. It's changed so much in the last 20 years. Believe I read something that around half of the skyscrapers in Miami were built in the last 20 years or so. And they are building sh&t load more of them right now, and seems like a new one is announced every week.

I think it is now. Not 20 years ago. You've seen it grow up so maybe it's like the guy that gains 20 pounds over time and thinks he looks the same. Then he sees a friend he hasn't for 5 years who shares a picture of them 5 years ago. The reaction is "holy shit".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 26, 2023, 11:29:29 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 26, 2023, 11:00:55 AM

No, there wasn't. This is false history pushed by anti-American leftists.

For starters, the Japanese were far more racist than Americans. Their entire worldview was shaped by a conceptual racial hierarchy with Japanese at the top.

In the summer of 1945 mopping up operations on Okinawa and Iwo Jima were underway and, since Germany had already surrendered, the British, Dutch, French, and Americans were transferring a fearsome amount of weaponry to the Pacific.

Japan never could have defeated an undistracted Britain let alone the United States. This statement is based on economics not race. Japan's economy was about one-third the size of Britain's and less than one-tenth the size of the US. Their leaders knew this and on some level understood the hopelessness of their situation. Their people were starving and their few remaining ships and planes were stranded due to lack of fuel. They could have surrendered at any time.

Instead of surrendering the leadership of Japan was sending instructions to their ambassador in Moscow to try to get the Soviets to mediate a peace on terms that anyone could see would be unacceptable to the US and Britain who had made abundantly clear that their terms were "unconditional surrender".

In their instructions to their ambassador in Moscow they were literally trying to use territories that they no longer possessed as bargaining chips.

The US and British leadership read the messages between Tokyo and their ambassador in Moscow because both Britain and the US had broken the Japanese diplomatic codes. Thus, Washington and London knew that Japan had not yet accepted the reality of their situation.

In the midst of all this Truman and the US leadership considered three basic options (Note that I've left Atlee out because although the British Pacific Fleet (BPF) was fantastically powerful by pre-war standards, by 1945 it was miniscule compared to the forces that the US had arrayed against Japan):

• Blockade. The Japanese were effectively out of fuel and rapidly heading toward mass starvation because they couldn’t produce enough food domestically to feed their population. The US blockade by this point was very nearly impenetrable so the argument for this option was to simply let the Japanese people starve until they got hungry enough to surrender.
• Invade. With the resources freed up by the end of the war in Europe the US had more than enough men and equipment to take the Japanese home islands by force. The main argument for this option was that it was the only one that was guaranteed to end the war.
• Atomic Bombs. The US leadership did understand the fearsome power of these weapons but they probably didn't fully appreciate it. One argument against the use of the bombs was that the firebombing campaign had been so successful that there weren't many Japanese cities left worth bombing.

Truman chose to pursue all three options. The blockade was continued, preparations for an invasion scheduled for November of 1945 went on, and two bombs were dropped.

That the bombs saved American lives is obvious. Allied planners had estimated a Million casualties in the planned invasion of Japan (Operation Downfall). The interesting thing is that the bombs actually saved far more Japanese lives. Japanese casualties defending on Okinawa and Iwo Jima were many times US casualties so their losses defending Honshu would easily have reached seven digits. Approximately one-quarter of the civilian population of Okinawa were either killed or committed suicide during the Battle of Okinawa.  Extrapolated out to the entire population of Japan that is around 17-18 Million people.  The blockade would have caused a substantial portion of Japan's population to literally die of starvation over the winter of 1945/46.

yeah, I don't know. I tend to think using nuclear weapons at all was pretty god damn evil. I don't know if there is a justification for using them. To be honest. Like ever. The scary thing is the nuclear weapons developed in the years after were significantly more powerful and devastating...like imagine a hydrogen bomb like the tsar bomba dropped over a major city....it would've basically killed everyone in the damn city. Guess humanity is lucky af those weren't developed in time for us to find out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 26, 2023, 11:31:50 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2023, 10:47:31 AM

I used to LOVE visiting my BIL (RIP bro) in Belmont Shore. Really cool area.

Yeah, about the only reason I ever cross into LA County is that my wife grew up in Long Beach and still has her closest friends there. So we are up there seeing them fairly regularly.

Quote from: FearlessF on May 26, 2023, 10:47:39 AM

I plan to visit betarhoalphadelta some fine day.
and parts north of him, not south

Well, south of me is San Diego, and that's worth visiting. But if you're going north, go MUCH farther north, skip straight past/through LA to the central coast (gorgeous) or coastal/wine regions north of SF (wine country, beautiful nature, and the redwoods if you go even farther North). 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2023, 11:32:35 AM

whatever happened to the neutron bomb??

I guess it was developed but never used

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2023, 11:33:14 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 26, 2023, 11:31:50 AM

Well, south of me is San Diego, and that's worth visiting. But if you're going north, go MUCH farther north, skip straight past/through LA to the central coast (gorgeous) or coastal/wine regions north of SF (wine country, beautiful nature, and the redwoods if you go even farther North).

yup

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2023, 11:53:34 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 26, 2023, 11:32:35 AM

whatever happened to the neutron bomb??

I guess it was developed but never used

It was a topic in the Carter Administration as I recall and never deployed.  It was still a pretty large bomb in terms of explosive power.

There also was a cobalt bomb that was feared could be the end of us all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 26, 2023, 11:57:20 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 26, 2023, 11:00:55 AM

No, there wasn't. This is false history pushed by anti-American leftists.

For starters, the Japanese were far more racist than Americans. Their entire worldview was shaped by a conceptual racial hierarchy with Japanese at the top.

Everything you said about the military/strategic reasoning to drop the bombs is true, but that also doesn't mean that American racism didn't play a factor in more willingness to drop the bombs than if had been Europeans. And pointing out Japan's racism (which is true and I don't disagree) also doesn't mean that American racism didn't play a factor in more willingness to drop the bombs than if it had been Europeans.

Granted, I certainly haven't proven my assertion that it played a factor either. But I think there was more of a prevailing attitude to think of the Japanese as "other" in the 1940s in a way that wasn't true of the Germans or Italians, and probably as well of the Russians who had just been our ally. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2023, 12:00:49 PM

We did fire bomb the crap out of some Germans cities of course.  That caused close to as many deaths as the A bomb, Hamburg, Dresden...

We bombed some French cities heavily as well, Orlean really got hit hard.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 26, 2023, 12:09:34 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2023, 11:09:07 AM

I've often thought of that, but when I talk to my many Eurofriends and they think the same. As you said, Japan was already in ruin anyway. So why wreck Europe even more?

I'd like to learn more about this false history take. I'd hate to say I fell for it, but if I did, I'm happy to be corrected.

I've got a few good books on Operation Downfall but I can't think of any titles off the top of my head.  I will, however, cover one thing here that is very important to understanding the end of WWII. 

When I was a kid my dad used to refer to what he called "the Ho Chi Minh, how to beat the Americans book".  The thing is, as I learned more about the Pacific War I learned that the book wasn't actually invented by Ho Chi Minh, it was invented by the Japanese and should probably be called the "Hirohito book of how to beat the Americans." 

If you are charged with defending an island against a numerically superior and much more well equipped force your only chance of successfully repelling the invasion is to defend the beach so as to prevent your superior enemy from getting a foothold.  If you fail at this your enemy will eventually conquer the island simply due to their superior numbers and supplies/equipment. 

Prior to Okinawa in most of the US invasions of Japanese held islands the Japanese attempted to repel the invasion by fighting desperately to defend the beach so as to prevent the US from getting a foothold and eventually taking the island.  The Battle of Okinawa represented a significant departure from the Japanese battle plans in the previous island invasions.  By the time the US got to Okinawa (April, 1945) the Japanese realized that they couldn't actually repel the invasion.  They were vastly outnumbered (roughly 5:1) and they had no hope of resupply while the Americans had all the equipment, fuel, ammunition, and supplies they could want.  Consequently, the Japanese adopted a strategy designed specifically to maximize American casualties.  Rather than trying to defend the beach where they would get pulverized by American pre-invasion naval bombardment and airstrikes, the Japanese instead built an incredibly elaborate network of tunnels and other defensive works and instructed their troops that they needed to take out 10 Americans each. 

The casualties on Okinawa were horrific.  The US lost around 12,500 killed or missing and suffered a total of around 50k casualties including wounded.  The Japanese lose around 110,00 killed with comparatively few wounded (they just kept fighting until killed) and a few (mostly unconscious) captured. 

The Japanese also applied the same principle to their Kamikaze strikes.  When they first employed Kamikaze's they tried to use them to destroy American Carriers, Battleships, and Cruisers on the theory that they needed to take those out first, THEN they would be able to sink the destroyers and transports.  Fortunately for the US, this meant that the Kamikaze attacks were not as deadly as you might think.  The Carriers were usually FAR out to sea so very few Kamikazes actually reached them.  Battleships were closer to conduct shore bombardment but Battleships are also sufficiently armored that the Kamikazes generally didn't do much damage to them.  If you go see the Missouri while you are in Hawaii there is a dent in the rail that was caused by a Japanese Kamikaze strike. 

IIRC, Okinawa was the first place where Kamikazes were used against amphibious ships.  These ships are much closer to shore than Carriers and much less armored than Battleships.  Additionally, they were LOADED with troops weighted down by all of their equipment.  The results were predictable. 

Okinawa was basically a final rehearsal for Japanese plans to defend their home islands.  Rather than seeing their Kamikaze's shot down attempting to get to carriers or bounce off of Battleships they planned to use them against vulnerable transports and amphibious assault ships.  Rather than being pulverized by pre-invasion bombardment while preparing to defend the beach they planned to use tunnels and other defensive works to maximize American casualties. 

If you think about it, this is ultimately how Ho Chi Minh managed to beat the Americans 20-30 years later.  Like the Japanese of 1945, Ho Chi Minh knew that he didn't have the necessary forces to actually meet the Americans on a battlefield and have any chance of winning but he figured out that if he dragged things out long enough and inflicted enough casualties the US would eventually decide that it simply wasn't worth it to fight him. 

What worked for Ho Chi Minh did NOT work for Hirohito because the US simply didn't give Hirohito enough time.  This strategy is ultimately dependent on the US not pouring in enough resources to win BEFORE US public support declines to problematic levels.  US leadership in 1945 understood this.  They planned the invasion for November, 1945 because that was as soon as they could do it and they KNEW that they were up against a clock. 

Two quick personal stories after something Truman said.  I'm sure if I spent some time googling I could find it but after the war Truman said something to the effect that he couldn't have faced the families of deceased American troops if he had been able to use the bomb and chosen not to.  Two of those potential causalities were friends of mine much later:
A guy named Ralph got me to volunteer for the American Legion Buckeye Boy's State.  You ( @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) ) will appreciate that the guy I work with now is from Wisconsin and attended Badger Boy's State years ago. Anyway, Ralph graduated from Medina High School on June 6, 1944.  That is D-Day, the date of the Normandy Invasion for anyone still reading who doesn't already know that.  Six months later he was in a repro-depot (replacement depot for green new troops ready to replace casualties) and got sent to the outskirts of the Battle of the Bulge as an artilleryman.  At the end of the war in Europe the US instituted a point system to determine who would get to go home first.  Guys got points for service time, time under fire, being married, having kids, etc.  My friend Ralph had been in combat for a few months but that was nothing compared to guys who had chased Rommel across North Africa, taken Sicily, landed at Anzio, landed at Normandy, then chased the Nazi's from Le Harve to the Rhine and beyond so he was not going home anytime soon.  He once told me that when the Japanese surrendered he was at a train station somewhere in Indiana when an "old" (probably younger than me now) guy drove by, saw his uniform, and said "Go home soldier, war's over".  Ralph was in Indiana because he had been shipped back to the US on the Queen Mary and ordered to report to some Army base in California for shipment to an undisclosed location in the Pacific.  He'd have been part of the invasion of Japan. 

Another guy I knew named Charlie was a year younger than Ralph.  He graduated from Medina High School in June, 1945.  By that time the Germans had already surrendered and, as a young and dumb guy, Charlie wanted to get into the war.  He joined the Navy because he figured they were the branch doing most of the fighting against Japan.  In later life Charlie said that he was a WWII veteran in name only because he was finishing up learning to be a tailgunner when Japan surrendered.  Charlie always said that the Bombs saved his life.  That was probably overly dramatic but it also was far from impossible.  Charlie ended up as a plankowner on the USS Midway.  In Naval parlance, "plankowners" are guys in the initial crew of a ship.  Midway was the first post-Essex class carrier and it was commissioned a few days after Japan surrendered. 

If Japan had not surrendered Ralph would have been hitting some beach on Kyushu and Charlie would have been flying over him in the back of a Torpedo Plane (Torpedo planes were used as level bombers when there were no more Japanese ships to use torpedos against).  If you were Truman, could you have faced Charlie's or Ralph's mom after they were killed and said "yeah, I could have prevented your son's death but I chose not to." 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 26, 2023, 12:17:02 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 26, 2023, 11:57:20 AM

Everything you said about the military/strategic reasoning to drop the bombs is true, but that also doesn't mean that American racism didn't play a factor in more willingness to drop the bombs than if had been Europeans. And pointing out Japan's racism (which is true and I don't disagree) also doesn't mean that American racism didn't play a factor in more willingness to drop the bombs than if it had been Europeans.

Granted, I certainly haven't proven my assertion that it played a factor either. But I think there was more of a prevailing attitude to think of the Japanese as "other" in the 1940s in a way that wasn't true of the Germans or Italians, and probably as well of the Russians who had just been our ally.

I'm going to quote my last sentence from my reply to @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) :

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 26, 2023, 12:09:34 PM

If you were Truman, could you have faced Charlie's or Ralph's mom after they were killed and said "yeah, I could have prevented your son's death but I chose not to." 

It isn't provable one way or another.  You've conceded the military/strategic situation and I'll concede that most Americans were racist then in a way that would be shocking to our modern sensibilities.  

That said, I've provided ample non-racist justification to drop the bomb and I'll add here that it was developed with the intention to use it against the Germans.  I think it is unfair to assume racism.  

What I am saying is that the outcome of this debate is dependent upon who has the burden of proof.  You can't prove your assertion and I can't prove that it is false.  My opinion is that the burden is on the accuser.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 26, 2023, 12:18:40 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 26, 2023, 11:29:29 AM

yeah, I don't know. I tend to think using nuclear weapons at all was pretty god damn evil. I don't know if there is a justification for using them. To be honest. Like ever. The scary thing is the nuclear weapons developed in the years after were significantly more powerful and devastating...like imagine a hydrogen bomb like the tsar bomba dropped over a major city....it would've basically killed everyone in the damn city. Guess humanity is lucky af those weren't developed in time for us to find out.

I strongly reject the assertion that an action that saved literally MILLIONS of lives was "pretty god damn evil."  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 26, 2023, 12:33:53 PM

Don't forget that to develop the bombs, entire cities were built in TN, NM, and WA.  Tens of thousands of people worked for years to just provide the infrastructure for the smart group of guys to bring them to a reality.  
.
We didn't do all of that just to not use them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 26, 2023, 12:39:38 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2023, 10:00:41 AM

If you've never visited Chicago and want to do so, you best get it done sooner than later.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/chicago-budget-plan-brandon-johnson-saqib-bhatti-acre-peoples-unity-platform-95c775c7?st=iuvi6pwdov86n7u&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

I think that wokeism was invented to eliminate satire.

Chicago is suffering from rapidly rising crime and the response is to gut the PD. What could go wrong?

Then there are proposals to tax transactions at the options and futures markets. Do these loons not understand that with modern technology these transactions could easily be moved to the suburbs, another state, or the cloud?

Idea:
Let's crank up taxes on our productive citizens and fail to protect them from violent criminals and see what happens.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 26, 2023, 12:41:47 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 26, 2023, 12:09:34 PM

I've got a few good books on Operation Downfall but I can't think of any titles off the top of my head.  I will, however, cover one thing here that is very important to understanding the end of WWII. 

When I was a kid my dad used to refer to what he called "the Ho Chi Minh, how to beat the Americans book".  The thing is, as I learned more about the Pacific War I learned that the book wasn't actually invented by Ho Chi Minh, it was invented by the Japanese and should probably be called the "Hirohito book of how to beat the Americans." 

If you are charged with defending an island against a numerically superior and much more well equipped force your only chance of successfully repelling the invasion is to defend the beach so as to prevent your superior enemy from getting a foothold.  If you fail at this your enemy will eventually conquer the island simply due to their superior numbers and supplies/equipment. 

Prior to Okinawa in most of the US invasions of Japanese held islands the Japanese attempted to repel the invasion by fighting desperately to defend the beach so as to prevent the US from getting a foothold and eventually taking the island.  The Battle of Okinawa represented a significant departure from the Japanese battle plans in the previous island invasions.  By the time the US got to Okinawa (April, 1945) the Japanese realized that they couldn't actually repel the invasion.  They were vastly outnumbered (roughly 5:1) and they had no hope of resupply while the Americans had all the equipment, fuel, ammunition, and supplies they could want.  Consequently, the Japanese adopted a strategy designed specifically to maximize American casualties.  Rather than trying to defend the beach where they would get pulverized by American pre-invasion naval bombardment and airstrikes, the Japanese instead built an incredibly elaborate network of tunnels and other defensive works and instructed their troops that they needed to take out 10 Americans each. 

The casualties on Okinawa were horrific.  The US lost around 12,500 killed or missing and suffered a total of around 50k casualties including wounded.  The Japanese lose around 110,00 killed with comparatively few wounded (they just kept fighting until killed) and a few (mostly unconscious) captured. 

The Japanese also applied the same principle to their Kamikaze strikes.  When they first employed Kamikaze's they tried to use them to destroy American Carriers, Battleships, and Cruisers on the theory that they needed to take those out first, THEN they would be able to sink the destroyers and transports.  Fortunately for the US, this meant that the Kamikaze attacks were not as deadly as you might think.  The Carriers were usually FAR out to sea so very few Kamikazes actually reached them.  Battleships were closer to conduct shore bombardment but Battleships are also sufficiently armored that the Kamikazes generally didn't do much damage to them.  If you go see the Missouri while you are in Hawaii there is a dent in the rail that was caused by a Japanese Kamikaze strike. 

IIRC, Okinawa was the first place where Kamikazes were used against amphibious ships.  These ships are much closer to shore than Carriers and much less armored than Battleships.  Additionally, they were LOADED with troops weighted down by all of their equipment.  The results were predictable. 

Okinawa was basically a final rehearsal for Japanese plans to defend their home islands.  Rather than seeing their Kamikaze's shot down attempting to get to carriers or bounce off of Battleships they planned to use them against vulnerable transports and amphibious assault ships.  Rather than being pulverized by pre-invasion bombardment while preparing to defend the beach they planned to use tunnels and other defensive works to maximize American casualties. 

If you think about it, this is ultimately how Ho Chi Minh managed to beat the Americans 20-30 years later.  Like the Japanese of 1945, Ho Chi Minh knew that he didn't have the necessary forces to actually meet the Americans on a battlefield and have any chance of winning but he figured out that if he dragged things out long enough and inflicted enough casualties the US would eventually decide that it simply wasn't worth it to fight him. 

What worked for Ho Chi Minh did NOT work for Hirohito because the US simply didn't give Hirohito enough time.  This strategy is ultimately dependent on the US not pouring in enough resources to win BEFORE US public support declines to problematic levels.  US leadership in 1945 understood this.  They planned the invasion for November, 1946 because that was as soon as they could do it and they KNEW that they were up against a clock. 

Two quick personal stories after something Truman said.  I'm sure if I spent some time googling I could find it but after the war Truman said something to the effect that he couldn't have faced the families of deceased American troops if he had been able to use the bomb and chosen not to.  Two of those potential causalities were friends of mine much later:
A guy named Ralph got me to volunteer for the American Legion Buckeye Boy's State.  You ( @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) ) will appreciate that the guy I work with now is from Wisconsin and attended Badger Boy's State years ago. Anyway, Ralph graduated from Medina High School on June 6, 1944.  That is D-Day, the date of the Normandy Invasion for anyone still reading who doesn't already know that.  Six months later he was in a repro-depot (replacement depot for green new troops ready to replace casualties) and got sent to the outskirts of the Battle of the Bulge as an artilleryman.  At the end of the war in Europe the US instituted a point system to determine who would get to go home first.  Guys got points for service time, time under fire, being married, having kids, etc.  My friend Ralph had been in combat for a few months but that was nothing compared to guys who had chased Rommel across North Africa, taken Sicily, landed at Anzio, landed at Normandy, then chased the Nazi's from Le Harve to the Rhine and beyond so he was not going home anytime soon.  He once told me that when the Japanese surrendered he was at a train station somewhere in Indiana when an "old" (probably younger than me now) guy drove by, saw his uniform, and said "Go home soldier, war's over".  Ralph was in Indiana because he had been shipped back to the US on the Queen Mary and ordered to report to some Army base in California for shipment to an undisclosed location in the Pacific.  He'd have been part of the invasion of Japan. 

Another guy I knew named Charlie was a year younger than Ralph.  He graduated from Medina High School in June, 1945.  By that time the Germans had already surrendered and, as a young and dumb guy, Charlie wanted to get into the war.  He joined the Navy because he figured they were the branch doing most of the fighting against Japan.  In later life Charlie said that he was a WWII veteran in name only because he was finishing up learning to be a tailgunner when Japan surrendered.  Charlie always said that the Bombs saved his life.  That was probably overly dramatic but it also was far from impossible.  Charlie ended up as a plankowner on the USS Midway.  In Naval parlance, "plankowners" are guys in the initial crew of a ship.  Midway was the first post-Essex class carrier and it was commissioned a few days after Japan surrendered. 

If Japan had not surrendered Ralph would have been hitting some beach on Kyushu and Charlie would have been flying over him in the back of a Torpedo Plane (Torpedo planes were used as level bombers when there were no more Japanese ships to use torpedos against).  If you were Truman, could you have faced Charlie's or Ralph's mom after they were killed and said "yeah, I could have prevented your son's death but I chose not to." 

Amazing post Medina.  I enjoyed EVERY word of it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2023, 12:44:40 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 26, 2023, 12:41:47 PM

Amazing post Medina.  I enjoyed EVERY word of it.

Same. Thanks MB!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 26, 2023, 12:45:33 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 26, 2023, 12:33:53 PM

Don't forget that to develop the bombs, entire cities were built in TN, NM, and WA.  Tens of thousands of people worked for years to just provide the infrastructure for the smart group of guys to bring them to a reality. 
.
We didn't do all of that just to not use them.

Earlier in the war when Truman was still a Senator he started probing the Manhattan Project expenditures. Truman had a reputation as a cost cutting budget hawk and wanted to know where all this money (and it was a fantastic amount of money) was going. A general was dispatched from the White House to meet with Truman. He told the Senator"I can't tell you what it is, but if it works the war will be over."


NOTE for @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) , this was when Germany was still the most dangerous foe and indicates an assumption of intentions to use the bomb against them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2023, 12:47:03 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 26, 2023, 12:39:38 PM

I think that wokeism was invented to eliminate satire.

Chicago is suffering from rapidly rising crime and the response is to gut the PD. What could go wrong?

Then there are proposals to tax transactions at the options and futures markets. Do these loons not understand that with modern technology these transactions could easily be moved to the suburbs, another state, or the cloud?

Idea:
Let's crank up taxes on our productive citizens and fail to protect them from violent criminals and see what happens.

When did this sh.. stuff actually start? 2010 or so?

Chicago is screwed. It will be nothing more than a place to connect flights and route trains.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2023, 12:56:48 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 26, 2023, 12:45:33 PM

Earlier in the war when Truman was still a Senator he started probing the Manhattan Project expenditures. Truman had a reputation as a cost cutting budget hawk and wanted to know where all this money (and it was a fantastic amount of money) was going. A general was dispatched from the White House to meet with Truman. He told the Senator"I can't tell you what it is, but if it works the war will be over."


NOTE for @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) , this was when Germany was still the most dangerous foe and indicates an assumption of intentions to use the bomb against them.

MANHATTAN PROJECT

Music: Geddy Lee (https://www.rush.com/band/geddy-lee/) and Alex Lifeson (https://www.rush.com/band/alex-lifeson/)
Lyrics: Neil Peart (https://www.rush.com/band/neil-peart/)

Imagine a time
When it all began
In the dying days of a war
A weapon — that would settle the score
Whoever found it first
Would be sure to do their worst —
They always had before…

Imagine a man
Where it all began
A scientist pacing the floor
In each nation — always eager to explore
To build the best big stick
To turn the winning trick —
But this was something more…

Quote

The big bang — took and shook the world
Shot down the rising sun
The end was begun — it would hit everyone
When the chain reaction was done
The big shots — try to hold it back
Fools try to wish it away
The hopeful depend on a world without end
Whatever the hopeless may say

Imagine a place
Where it all began
They gathered from across the land
To work in the secrecy of the desert sand
All of the brightest boys
To play with the biggest toys —
More than they bargained for…

Imagine a man
When it all began
The pilot of “Enola Gay”
Flying out of the shockwave
On that August day
All the powers that be
And the course of history,
Would be changed for evermore…

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 26, 2023, 01:19:22 PM

Really sad too because Chicago is one of America's truly great cities.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2023, 01:29:16 PM

Quote from: utee94 on May 26, 2023, 01:19:22 PM

Really sad too because Chicago is one of America's truly great cities.

Was.

Last month was the final chance to turn things around, and they (voters) failed.

Miserably.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2023, 02:10:22 PM

We killed more Japanese civilians fire bombing Tokyo than the A bomb killed in Hiroshima.  

The estimates for how many Americans would have died assaulting mainland Japan are frequently over estimated, or just misquoted.  An original estimate was "up to half a million casualties".  This got reported in histories by some as a million, but it's casualties, not KIA.  And that estimate was downward revised in later estimates.  And of course, nobody knew for sure.

Japan was on the edge of starvation had the war gong on into the winter.  We could have isolated the islands completely with relative ease.

The B-29 project cost quite a bit more than the Manhattan project, and you have to have the B-29 to carry one A bomb.  (The Lancaster could have with some mods and over shorter ranges.)  The B24/17 did not have the load capacity to carry one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 26, 2023, 02:36:00 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2023, 01:29:16 PM

Was.

Last month was the final chance to turn things around, and they (voters) failed.

Miserably.

We'll have to see not what Brandon SAYS, but what he DOES.

My understanding is that Lightfoot got tossed in large part due to crime. Obviously the woke theory that if we sing Kum By Yah, read poetry to the gangsters, and ask them to stop doing bad things they'll become productive citizens doesn't work.

That said, this isn't new. I visited New York in the spring of 1994. That was pretty much the height of NYC crime and I thought it was a crap hole and planned NEVER to go back.

Crime got so bad in NYC that the overwhelmingly Democratic voters elected Republican Rudy Guilliani Mayor twice. Then they elected Bloomberg who more-or-less maintained Guilliani's crime policies* three times.

My (now) wife wanted me to take her to the Macy's Parade so I did, in 2015. I was absolutely astounded at the massive change in the ~20 years between my visits. NYC circa 2015 was reasonably crime free and very much a livable city.

Many of the people around Brandon are hopeless. They are true believers in the worst extremes of wokeism. I think it is too early to tell where Brandon will shake out.

As a politician he *SHOULD* realize that the crime issue that got him into the Mayor's office in 2023 could just as easily get him out of the Mayor's office in 2027.

There is another political factor at play here. I think that Lightfoot's demise shows that, even in Chicago, Brandon's biggest vulnerability is to his right, not his left. If he talks a somewhat woke walk while walking a more reality-based walk he'll be nearly invincible.

*Bloomberg started out as, at least nominally, a Republican and even after he dropped that ruse he remained more-or-less true to Guilliani's crime policies until he had to repudiate things like stop and frisk to have a prayer in the Democratic Presidential Primary.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 26, 2023, 02:37:32 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 26, 2023, 12:17:02 PM

I'm going to quote my last sentence from my reply to @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) :It isn't provable one way or another.  You've conceded the military/strategic situation and I'll concede that most Americans were racist then in a way that would be shocking to our modern sensibilities. 

That said, I've provided ample non-racist justification to drop the bomb and I'll add here that it was developed with the intention to use it against the Germans.  I think it is unfair to assume racism. 

What I am saying is that the outcome of this debate is dependent upon who has the burden of proof.  You can't prove your assertion and I can't prove that it is false.  My opinion is that the burden is on the accuser. 

Fair enough. Given that an accusation of racism is neither necessary nor sufficient to explain the use of the bomb, I'll retract that. 

Especially since I think farther ahead to the Cold War, and while there were many reasons that never went hot nor nuclear, I don't recall anyone saying that the reason we shouldn't nuke them was that the Russkies looked like us. 

Good discussion, and thanks for your thoughts on it Medina. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2023, 02:43:36 PM

Operation Gomorrah: Firestorm created 'Germany's Nagasaki' - BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-43546839)

Apocalypse in Dresden, February 1945 | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans (nationalww2museum.org) (https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/apocalypse-dresden-february-1945)

(https://i.imgur.com/x6tzgb1.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 26, 2023, 02:44:17 PM

My first trip ever to NYC was in the summer of 1994, right after college graduation, and it was indeed a crimeridden disgusting shitheap of a town.

I still loved it for its energy, its liveliness, and I've never been to another place that felt anywhere close to it.  But the city itself had a lot of problems.

Nowadays it seems almost a theme park by comparison.  Much cleaner, more livable, and even a little more friendly I'd say.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 26, 2023, 02:50:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 26, 2023, 02:10:22 PM

The estimates for how many Americans would have died assaulting mainland Japan are frequently over estimated, or just misquoted.  An original estimate was "up to half a million casualties".  This got reported in histories by some as a million, but it's casualties, not KIA.  And that estimate was downward revised in later estimates.  And of course, nobody knew for sure.

True, but when Japan surrendered and the occupation began the US planners discovered that the Japanese were actually more well prepared and equipped than they had believed. They didn't realize it but the Japanese had realized that an invasion of their home islands was inevitable by mid 1944 and they started hoarding resources to make it an epic battle.

They had explosive-laden suicide boats hidden near probable invasion beaches and intended to use them against assault boats loaded with troops. Things like this would have led to horrific casualties.

They also had plans to use women and children as suicide Bombers by having them carry grenades to American troops. Honestly, that probably wouldn't have been terribly effective at killing American troops but it would have turned them into monsters. After that happened a few times word would have gotten out and then GI's would have been wasting old women and little kids at 100 yards rather than taking the risk.

When Pearl Harbor was attacked Halsey was returning to Pearl Harbor aboard USS Enterprise. When Enterprise entered the harbor a day or two later Halsey looked at the carnage and said:
"When we get done with these people they will only speak Japanese in hell."
If we'd have invaded Japan that may have come true.

The bombs saved millions of lives and most of them were Japanese.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2023, 03:01:34 PM

Incidentally, the Japanese tactic of not resisting the initial landings had been practiced before Okinawa.  Guadalcanal was the first example, though in the case the Japanese troops were mostly construction troops.  Iwo Jima is an example where the Japanese hunkered down and waited.  

Operation Downfall - Proposed Invasion of Japan | Imperial War Museums (iwm.org.uk) (https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/the-proposed-invasion-of-japan)

The casualty rate on Okinawa was 35%; with 767,000 men scheduled to participate in taking Kyushu, it was estimated that there would be 268,000 casualties. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 26, 2023, 03:25:52 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 26, 2023, 12:09:34 PM

When I was a kid my dad used to refer to what he called "the Ho Chi Minh, how to beat the Americans book".  The thing is, as I learned more about the Pacific War I learned that the book wasn't actually invented by Ho Chi Minh, it was invented by the Japanese and should probably be called the "Hirohito book of how to beat the Americans."
Well he could have started by not believing himself GOD and by listening to Yamamoto - who went to Universities in the USA evidently and knew the country had potential

What worked for Ho Chi Minh did NOT work for Hirohito because the US simply didn't give Hirohito enough time.  This strategy is ultimately dependent on the US not pouring in enough resources to win BEFORE US public support declines to problematic levels.  US leadership in 1945 understood this.  They planned the invasion for November, 1945 because that was as soon as they could do it and they KNEW that they were up against a clock. 
What worked for HO Chi Minh is 1st off he had Russia/China both on his side and in close proximity and supporting/supplying him as opposed to Hirohito. Secondly HO hadn't sneak attacked a country not officially at War with them thus stiffening their resolve. And that nation wasn't all in against HO like it was agaist the self proclaimed GOD. So there are 3/4 variables that were not comparable. Had the script been flipped I'm sure,HO versus China/USSR/USA after he ordered a sneak attack things would have been over in short order. And I had read that HO really wanted assitence from the USA for independence vs France and maybe it worx out differently if Washington brokers it's Independence

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2023, 03:39:51 PM

One factor in the bombing campaigns was an over promise given earlier in the war by folks like Bomber Harris and Lemay.  That concept was that strategic bombing could end a war almost by itself.  One stat that amazes me is that German war materiel production hit its zenith in November, 1944.  No doubt it was less than it would have been without bombing (Germans had to produce antiaircraft weapons and fighters to resist that as well).  But the daylight "precision" bombing was not practical.  So, they resorted to area bombing, and then fire bombing.  The first wave would drop HE and the second would drop incendiaries creating a fire storm.

If the A bomb was unethical, fire bombing was as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 26, 2023, 03:55:55 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 26, 2023, 03:39:51 PM

One factor in the bombing campaigns was an over promise given earlier in the war by folks like Bomber Harris and Lemay.  That concept was that strategic bombing could end a war almost by itself.  One stat that amazes me is that German war materiel production hit its zenith in November, 1944.  No doubt it was less than it would have been without bombing (Germans had to produce antiaircraft weapons and fighters to resist that as well).  But the daylight "precision" bombing was not practical.  So, they resorted to area bombing, and then fire bombing.  The first wave would drop HE and the second would drop incendiaries creating a fire storm.

If the A bomb was unethical, fire bombing was as well.

one is not like the other. how many bombs were dropped in those fire bombings runs? probably...a lot.

Two A bombs alone....not bombing runs...two bombs...killed an estimated 200,000 people...with many of them incinerated to hell and others dying later on from radiation poisoning or having serious long term defects/cancers. 

just my two pennies, but I don't think nuclear weapons should've ever been built let alone used. 

I pray to god they are never used again. Not a lot actually frightens me. Nuclear weapons do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2023, 04:00:23 PM

I think whatever killed a lot of folks is like another thing that killed a lot of folks.  My point here is that we did fire bomb Germany and the results were roughly comparable to using an atomic bomb.  Ergo, we would likely have used the A bomb on Germany.  The genesis of the project was directed at Germany (the letter Einstein signed).

The existence of nukes arguably prevented a third major European war in the 1950s and 1960s.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2023, 04:00:27 PM

what Hitler was doing was worse

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 26, 2023, 04:07:38 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 26, 2023, 04:00:27 PM

what Hitler was doing was worse

ya think. lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 26, 2023, 04:08:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 26, 2023, 04:00:23 PM

I think whatever killed a lot of folks is like another thing that killed a lot of folks.  My point here is that we did fire bomb Germany and the results were roughly comparable to using an atomic bomb.  Ergo, we would likely have used the A bomb on Germany.  The genesis of the project was directed at Germany (the letter Einstein signed).

The existence of nukes arguably prevented a third major European war in the 1950s and 1960s. 

kind of amazing to me the nukes never went off in the 50s and 60s. wonder how many times it was a ~unacceptable vulgar term for part of female anatomy~ hair close to happening. of course none of us would probably be alive right now if they did. so thank god for that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 26, 2023, 04:49:02 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 26, 2023, 04:08:32 PM

kind of amazing to me the nukes never went off in the 50s and 60s. wonder how many times it was a ~unacceptable vulgar term for part of female anatomy~ hair close to happening. of course none of us would probably be alive right now if they did. so thank god for that.

There’s a good story about it happening over in Russia.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2023, 04:53:57 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/VQMkNP0.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 26, 2023, 04:58:41 PM

This site (http://www.combinedfleet.com/economic.htm), IMHO has great info. One of the people connected with the site is one of the authors of Shattered Sword which is a fantastic book about Midway.

The tab I linked is entitled Grim Economic Realities and highlights the ridiculous position Japan put themselves in. Some highlights:

Country % of Total Warmaking Potential
United States 41.7%
Germany 14.4%
USSR 14.0%
UK 10.2%
France 4.2%
Japan 3.5%
Italy 2.5%
Seven Powers (total) (90.5%)

The above is circa 1937. By 1945 the US was over 50% of global GDP. Even in 1937 the US exceeded the next three. Japan's miniscule economy (compared to their enemies) gave them no chance.

On the A-Bomb:
"The final evidence of this economic mismatch lies in the development of the Atomic bomb. The Manhattan Project required an enormous commitment on the part of the United States. And as Paul Kennedy states, "...it was the United States alone which at this time had the productive and technological resources not only to wage two large-scale conventional wars but also to invest the scientists, raw materials, and money (about $2 billion) in the development of a new weapon which might or might not work." In other words, our economy was so dominant that we knew we could afford to fund one of the greatest scientific endeavors in history largely from the 'leftovers' of our war effort! Whatever one may think morally or strategically about the usage of nuclear weapons against Japan, it is clear that their very development was a demonstration of unprecedented economic strength."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 26, 2023, 05:48:17 PM

Quote from: utee94 on May 26, 2023, 02:44:17 PM

My first trip ever to NYC was in the summer of 1994, right after college graduation, and it was indeed a crimeridden disgusting shitheap of a town.

I still loved it for its energy, its liveliness, and I've never been to another place that felt anywhere close to it.  But the city itself had a lot of problems.

Nowadays it seems almost a theme park by comparison.  Much cleaner, more livable, and even a little more friendly I'd say. 

I have been there a few times.  Cool place overall.   A vibe all its own. 

But they way it’s being run now as far as taxes and crime- is beyond sad.  I wouldn’t feel safe there outside of major tourist attractions    

To each his own.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2023, 05:58:08 PM

I'd like to visit NYC someday, but I don't know anyone near there

closest would be Boston

might visit friends in Boston and take the train down to NYC for a couple days

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2023, 06:02:43 PM

A Navy destroyer sunk by 2 Japanese kamikaze attacks in World War II has been discovered in the deep Pacific

The USS Mannert L. Abele sunk in the Battle of Okinawa in 1945.
The Battle of Okinawa was the largest fight in the Pacific Campaign, Tim Taylor of Lost 52 Project told The Times.

The fight was the last major battle in World War II and among the most deadly. The US suffered more than 49,000 casualties, including 12,500 deaths, and the Japanese lost approximately 110,00 soldiers in the bloody fight, according to History.com.

On April 1, 1945, tens of thousands of Army and Marine Corps forces attacked the Japanese island of Okinawa in a last-ditch effort to move toward the mainland.

Taking control of Okinawa's airbases was a key step to invading Japan, and while the Allies eventually proved victorious, it came at a heavy cost.


The Abele put up a long, hard fight before succumbing to the Pacific's depths.
The small ship was one of several war fleets that circled the Okinawa island in spring of 1945. The Abele was serving as an advance radar ship ahead of the invasion, using its technology to track incoming Japanese aircraft.

The ship, however, was especially sensitive to kamikaze attacks, which the Japanese were increasingly deploying as suicide missions near Okinawa. Over the course of multiple days, the ship fought off several Japanese attacks.

But when two Japanese planes crashed directly into the Abele's starboard side triggering dual explosions, the ship sunk to the bottom of the ocean in nearly 4,500 feet of water, according to The Times.

Eighty-four sailors aboard the Abele were killed.


The Abele was sunk by a Japanese Ohka bomb.
The Ohka was a new bomb at the time created by the Japanese that could fly through the air at speeds of 600 miles per hour.

The Japanese men pictured above are relaxing in front of a "Betty" bomber seen in the background of the photo that is carrying an "Ohka" piloted bomb beneath its fuselage similar to the one that took down the Abele, Scot Christenson, the director of communications for the US Naval Institute, told Insider.

The sinking of the Abele marked one of the first successful uses of this specific type of "Ohka" flying bomb against a US ship.

Naval history describes the weapon as a "deadly flying rocket bomb" in the Japanese arsenal that was designed to inflict maximum destruction on the Allied navies.

The bombs were small and typically launched from underneath land attack planes, making them difficult to shoot down because of their high speeds.


The Abele was named after Lt. Commander Mannert L. Abele.
The warship was commissioned in honor of Lt. Commander Mannert L. Abele in 1944.

Abele commanded the U.S.S Grunion, another Navy vessel that was lost at sea during the war.

The Navy awarded him a posthumous Navy Cross for his work sinking three Japanese ships in just one day during the war.


The sunken ship will stay where it is in the depths of the ocean.
The Abele and other sunken vessels like it are considered active tomb sites of those who perished in the war.

As such, the Navy won't move or disturb the newly-discovered ship, according to The Times.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 26, 2023, 06:57:17 PM

The best book concerning the Cold War:
(https://i.imgur.com/A6WKhZA.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 29, 2023, 09:48:31 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 25, 2023, 03:44:56 PM

Might lead to a debate on FDR...

OK.


A 'Forgotten History' Of How The U.S. Government Segregated America : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/526655831/a-forgotten-history-of-how-the-u-s-government-segregated-america)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 29, 2023, 01:16:04 PM

Johnny’s Chicken & Waffles Coming To Midtown Atlanta In June | What Now Atlanta (https://whatnowatlanta.com/johnnys-chicken-waffles-coming-to-midtown-atlanta-in-june/)

I guess I should try it sometime despite not understanding the concept.  There used to be a steak house here called The Federal which was, for us, mediocre.  We tried it once.  It's almost across the street from the Federal Reserve Building, hence its name, it didn't survive COVID.  The Fed building has a pretty neat museum about money we enjoyed.  And they give you a bag of money when you leave.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2023, 06:17:37 AM

The barbecue style that turns a tough cut of meat into tender deliciousness : Goats and Soda : NPR (https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/05/28/1178382391/turning-a-slab-of-meat-into-tender-deliciousness-secrets-of-the-low-and-slow-coo)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2023, 06:53:55 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/vbHuulB.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2023, 09:02:14 AM

Americans owe $1 trillion in credit card debt | The Hill (https://thehill.com/business/personal-finance/4023009-americans-owe-1-trillion-in-credit-card-debt/)

A typical American household now carries $10,000 in credit card debt (https://wallethub.com/edu/cc/credit-card-debt-study/24400), by one estimate, another record.  
If that doesn’t sound like a lot of debt, try paying it off (https://www.bankrate.com/finance/credit-cards/credit-card-payoff-calculator/). At $250 per month, with 24 percent interest, you’ll be making payments until 2030, and you’ll spend a total of $20,318, twice what you owed. And that assumes you never use the card again. 
“It’s hard to build wealth when you’re paying 20 percent interest every month,” said Ted Rossman, a senior industry analyst at Bankrate.com.  
The nation’s credit card debt stands at $986 billion (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CCLACBW027SBOG), according to the Federal Reserve. The figure has climbed by $250 billion in two years.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 30, 2023, 09:04:26 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 30, 2023, 09:02:14 AM

Americans owe $1 trillion in credit card debt | The Hill (https://thehill.com/business/personal-finance/4023009-americans-owe-1-trillion-in-credit-card-debt/)

A typical American household now carries $10,000 in credit card debt (https://wallethub.com/edu/cc/credit-card-debt-study/24400), by one estimate, another record. 
If that doesn’t sound like a lot of debt, try paying it off (https://www.bankrate.com/finance/credit-cards/credit-card-payoff-calculator/). At $250 per month, with 24 percent interest, you’ll be making payments until 2030, and you’ll spend a total of $20,318, twice what you owed. And that assumes you never use the card again.
“It’s hard to build wealth when you’re paying 20 percent interest every month,” said Ted Rossman, a senior industry analyst at Bankrate.com. 
The nation’s credit card debt stands at $986 billion (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CCLACBW027SBOG), according to the Federal Reserve. The figure has climbed by $250 billion in two years. 

Inflation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 30, 2023, 09:08:19 AM

Dummy needs to stay in his lane instead of trying to hit outside the strike zone.

(https://i.imgur.com/Qjj1Ija.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 30, 2023, 09:13:24 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 30, 2023, 09:02:14 AM

Americans owe $1 trillion in credit card debt | The Hill (https://thehill.com/business/personal-finance/4023009-americans-owe-1-trillion-in-credit-card-debt/)

“It’s hard to build wealth when you’re paying 20 percent interest every month,” said Ted Rossman, a senior industry analyst at Bankrate.com. 

I'd like to see the percentage capped at 12 or maybe 15% instead of 18-24
somehow I feel these credit card companies are doing as well or better than casinos

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 30, 2023, 10:26:39 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 30, 2023, 06:17:37 AM

The barbecue style that turns a tough cut of meat into tender deliciousness : Goats and Soda : NPR (https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/05/28/1178382391/turning-a-slab-of-meat-into-tender-deliciousness-secrets-of-the-low-and-slow-coo)

That's an excellent article.Great job explaining some of the chemistry behind BBQ.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 30, 2023, 12:42:44 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 30, 2023, 09:08:19 AM

Dummy needs to stay in his lane instead of trying to hit outside the strike zone.

(https://i.imgur.com/Qjj1Ija.png)

I thought his lane was flailing around loudly and pretending he’d be President some day.

Also, the connecting of that new law to that tragedy was deeply dumb and ham fisted, even by the low standards of our current discourse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 30, 2023, 12:57:29 PM

"They" will do anything to hit RDS. I wish he was not running. I really do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 30, 2023, 01:26:45 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 30, 2023, 12:57:29 PM

"They" will do anything to hit RDS. I wish he was not running. I really do.

Yeah, Newsome has tried in a couple spots (like a dink). But even if want wanted to tag him, it’s someone making it too complex by invoking some random law. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 30, 2023, 01:31:01 PM

Especially when the law is not law yet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2023, 01:32:32 PM

The open carry law would not be relevant to this shooting anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 30, 2023, 01:46:19 PM

most people do not understand this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2023, 01:48:11 PM

Cadillac sells more vehicles in China than the U.S., and it's renewing the large CT6 luxury sedan and releasing a new compact crossover for that market.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2023, 01:49:56 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 30, 2023, 01:46:19 PM

most people do not understand this

I fault the media in part, politicians will say something about "open carry" that flat out is incorrect and the media usually let it pass.  Of course, this is broadly true as well.

We have these various 'fact check' sites that at times need fact checking themselves, and they can be a bit selective about who and what they FC.  The better ones do at least provide some references to back stuff up, usually.  More often they let statements slide by it seems to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 30, 2023, 02:16:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 30, 2023, 01:48:11 PM

Cadillac sells more vehicles in China than the U.S., and it's renewing the large CT6 luxury sedan and releasing a new compact crossover for that market.

gonna be available in the US?
the trunk is 3 cu ft smaller than my 2017 impala

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2023, 02:23:33 PM

Probably not, Caddy is going electric and to SUVs more than sedans.  The Impala benefits from being FWD in terms of trunk space.  And it does have a very spacious trunk.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 30, 2023, 02:28:48 PM

I'll just remain practical and drive the Impala 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 30, 2023, 03:07:41 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 30, 2023, 01:32:32 PM

The open carry law would not be relevant to this shooting anyway.

The state of open vs concealed carry in our nation is … odd to say the least.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2023, 03:11:05 PM

A states rights person would perhaps think that is a good thing.  We have Con. carry here in Georgia.  I dimly recall that in Texas, open carry is illegal, or used to be, but one could carry concealed (with license).  I agree the laws are all over the place.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 30, 2023, 03:14:39 PM

laws don't stop criminals

it's against the law in every state to shoot others

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2023, 03:18:43 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 30, 2023, 03:14:39 PM

laws don't stop criminals

it's against the law in every state to shoot others

Not in every case of course, if I'm being picky.  There are of course legal ways to shoot others.

I think some laws do at least hinder some criminals, if the fear of punishment is real and sufficient.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 30, 2023, 03:41:59 PM

fear of punishment for a mass shooting is very real.

Apparently, not sufficient 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2023, 03:46:28 PM

For someone who is mentally deranged, no threat of punishment is much of a hindrance.  They often take their life, too late as it were.

You average crook takes steps to avoid prosecution.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 30, 2023, 04:15:21 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 30, 2023, 01:32:32 PM

The open carry law would not be relevant to this shooting anyway.

It is not an open carry law. It's concealed carry.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 30, 2023, 04:50:06 PM

Hollywood Beach shooting suspects remain at large; 2 others in custody on firearm charges: police | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/hollywood-beach-florida-shooting-suspects-remains-large-2-others-custody-firearm-charges-police)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2023, 05:36:39 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 30, 2023, 04:15:21 PM

It is not an open carry law. It's concealed carry.

Yeah, I misworded it.  It's "open concealed carry", usually called constitutional carry (concealed).
But you can't do it legally if you can't legally own or handle a firearm.  That's the part folks miss usually.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2023, 06:31:15 PM

The 11-year-old boy shot in the chest by Mississippi police after calling 911 says he prayed and sang to stay alive. Now he wants the officer fired | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/30/us/mississippi-11-year-old-shot-aderrien-murry-interview/index.html)

Sad story indeed.  CNN doesn't mention that Capers is African American.

Who is Greg Capers, the Mississippi police officer who shot unarmed 11-year-old Aderrien Murry? (yahoo.com) (https://news.yahoo.com/greg-capers-mississippi-police-officer-193850376.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on May 30, 2023, 06:47:05 PM

The only thing open carry accomplishes is telling the shooter who to shoot first.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 30, 2023, 08:55:03 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on May 30, 2023, 06:47:05 PM

The only thing open carry accomplishes is telling the shooter who to shoot first.

Odd that anyone would believe that.  

it certainly doesn’t match facts- over and over again.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 30, 2023, 10:07:30 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/wfQFmud.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 30, 2023, 10:12:04 PM

she would prefer that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 30, 2023, 10:17:50 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 30, 2023, 10:12:04 PM

she would prefer that

So would Fro. He is fascinated with men’s privates.  He always finds a way to weave them into his conversation.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 30, 2023, 10:18:36 PM

Oh, HB, I forgot to tell you, I didn't draw that cartoon.  I pilfered it from the internet.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 30, 2023, 10:19:05 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 30, 2023, 10:17:50 PM

So would Fro. He is fascinated with men’s privates.  He always finds a way to weave them into his conversation. 

Okay, you're not a dickhead.
You're a duck vagina. 

Better?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on May 30, 2023, 10:44:44 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 30, 2023, 10:19:05 PM

Okay, you're not a dickhead.
You're a duck vagina.

Better?

Thank you.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 31, 2023, 12:20:03 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on May 30, 2023, 08:55:03 PM

Odd that anyone would believe that. 

it certainly doesn’t match facts- over and over again. 

Setting aside the odd assertion that this post quoted, this leads to a question I have always wondered about.

In some states, concealed carry is something you need paperwork for, while open carry is the default. In other states it is reversed. Seems like a thing we should have standardized. A lot of folks here are firearms owners and have strong thoughts. What do we think?

Which should be default legal/illegal, or should both be fine if you have the proper paperwork to have the thing to begin with?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2023, 03:57:06 AM

As long as you're trained to use it and use it responsibly, both should be legal.  I'd label concealed carry as probably smarter.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2023, 07:32:25 AM

I'd say it doesn't matter much it's in the open or concealed

if yer packin yer packin

law enforcement and other smart folks are gonna assume yer packin, just in case

the amount of paperwork required to own and carry is the question

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 31, 2023, 07:35:13 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2023, 03:57:06 AM

As long as you're trained to use it and use it responsibly, both should be legal.  I'd label concealed carry as probably smarter. 

You also have to have the legal right to possess a firearm obviously.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2023, 07:36:47 AM

and that right can be taken away

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2023, 08:26:29 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 30, 2023, 05:36:39 PM

Yeah, I misworded it.  It's "open concealed carry", usually called constitutional carry (concealed).
But you can't do it legally if you can't legally own or handle a firearm.  That's the part folks miss usually.

A Federal background check is still required, but in most cases guns used in a crime are stolen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2023, 08:36:23 AM

I actually do not like Florida's new law on Constitutional Carry, even though it is more restrictive than the 27 other states which have the law. Most of those 27 are open carry or concealed. Florida is concealed only.

I would prefer people have to get a permit and go through training. A weapon is not a toy and must be treated with respect.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 31, 2023, 08:36:55 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/R0q59RM.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 31, 2023, 08:38:43 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2023, 08:26:29 AM

A Federal background check is still required, but in most cases guns used in a crime are stolen.

Yes, or obtained with straw purchases.  The "gun show loophole" is ridiculous if you've ever been to one.  It makes me laugh.

The kinds of sellers at gun shows are:

FFLs - who have to conduct the BG check, 70% of booths.

Antique firearms dealers

Sellers of gun accessories

The individual who pays for a booth to sell private guns with no BG check is almost a thing that never happens for obvious reasons.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 31, 2023, 09:27:40 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 31, 2023, 08:36:55 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/R0q59RM.png)

Got the weekly email blast from my 4th-grader's teacher yesterday. Telling us "There will be no spelling words for the reminder of the year."

Uhh... Great. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2023, 09:41:11 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 31, 2023, 08:38:43 AM

Yes, or obtained with straw purchases.  The "gun show loophole" is ridiculous if you've ever been to one.  It makes me laugh.

The kinds of sellers at gun shows are:

FFLs - who have to conduct the BG check, 70% of booths.

Antique firearms dealers

Sellers of gun accessories

The individual who pays for a booth to sell private guns with no BG check is almost a thing that never happens for obvious reasons.

Yeah, that's a problem, I think.

I'm not sure Joe Thug is gonna go this route. Too expensive probably.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2023, 10:06:46 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 31, 2023, 07:35:13 AM

You also have to have the legal right to possess a firearm obviously.

That goes without saying.....unless you're a criminal!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 31, 2023, 10:15:23 AM

It's an important point in terms of "constitutional carry laws" that MANY miss seeing.  They think it means criminals can now carry legally.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on May 31, 2023, 11:01:01 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 31, 2023, 09:27:40 AM

Got the weekly email blast from my 4th-grader's teacher yesterday. Telling us "There will be no spelling words for the reminder of the year."

Uhh... Great.

spelling is ovar rated

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2023, 11:12:49 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 31, 2023, 09:27:40 AM

Got the weekly email blast from my 4th-grader's teacher yesterday. Telling us "There will be no spelling words for the reminder of the year."

Uhh... Great.

What topic will the teacher in question replace spelling with?

That's what I'd be asking as a parent (OK, grandparent).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2023, 11:15:01 AM

hopefully, baseball

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 31, 2023, 11:25:07 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2023, 11:12:49 AM

What topic will the teacher in question replace spelling with?

That's what I'd be asking as a parent (OK, grandparent).

It's the end of the school year. I'm guessing "the quiet game" is popular this time of year...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2023, 11:39:00 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2023, 11:12:49 AM

What topic will the teacher in question replace spelling with?

That's what I'd be asking as a parent (OK, grandparent).

Most of the routine content is replaced by project-based "fun" stuff.  It's still learning, but more open-ended and likely how most teachers wish they could teach all year.
We mostly just reserve it after end-of-year testing is over.
It's full, deep lessons, but not as rote or scripted like with an adherence to the curriculum with fidelity.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2023, 12:13:45 PM

Damn. It wasn't like that when I was in school, aside from a few random longer recess periods. 

Testing ran up until the last day. It was the same for my kids.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on May 31, 2023, 12:16:34 PM

More open ended learning and "fun stuff" to me doesn't sound like much learning.

I endured a little of that crap when I was in school, and it was crap.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 31, 2023, 12:32:23 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 31, 2023, 12:20:03 AM

Setting aside the odd assertion that this post quoted, this leads to a question I have always wondered about.

In some states, concealed carry is something you need paperwork for, while open carry is the default. In other states it is reversed. Seems like a thing we should have standardized. A lot of folks here are firearms owners and have strong thoughts. What do we think?

Which should be default legal/illegal, or should both be fine if you have the proper paperwork to have the thing to begin with?

If we took the 2nd Amendment as it was written, both should be legal everywhere. I believe that the SCOTUS has finally been moving in that direction. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2023, 12:47:40 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 31, 2023, 12:16:34 PM

More open ended learning and "fun stuff" to me doesn't sound like much learning.

I endured a little of that crap when I was in school, and it was crap.

Well, you're free to be mired in your ignorance, I guess.  Enjoy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2023, 12:57:00 PM

Gun expert explains new ATF short-barrel rifle rule as registration deadline approaches

https://wpde.com/news/local/gun-expert-explains-atfs-new-sbr-ruling-what-it-means-as-registration-deadline-imminent-stabilizing-braces-pistols-firearms (https://wpde.com/news/local/gun-expert-explains-atfs-new-sbr-ruling-what-it-means-as-registration-deadline-imminent-stabilizing-braces-pistols-firearms)

HORRY COUNTY, S.C. (WPDE) — If you own a gun, you may want to double-check the attachments you've added to it, as the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has a new ruling regarding stabilizing braces.

In January, the ATF decided stabilizing braces will now be considered stocks on pistols, turning them into a short-barrel rifle (SBR), which is illegal unless you register it with the ATF.

The new rule allowed for a 120-day period for individuals to register their SBRs, tax-free.

The deadline for free registration ends Wednesday, May 31st, at Midnight.

You can still register after the deadline; however, you'll be charged a $200 tax.

Chuck Dunn, General Manager at Cormac Arms & Outfitters, said an SBR's barrel is less than 16 inches: “A pistol that has what they call a SIG brace that can be fired from your hand, that’s less than 16 inches in length is actually a rifle- and they want it registered as a rifle.”

Gun owners will now have to comply with the new ruling that applies to basically all firearms equipped with stabilizing braces, including AR pistols and non-NFA firearms.

“The ATF’s view on it is that anything you’re able to shoulder to fire, then it is considered a rifle, not a handgun. And that’s why they wanna change the law," Dunn said.

He said the point of a stabilizing brace is to help disabled shooters, like veterans.

“It was originally designed for people that have some type of handicap and couldn’t shoulder a weapon. All it is is a piece of hook and loop, or Velcro, that will go around your wrist and you can hold is straight out like a pistol and shoot it that way. Other than shouldering it like you normally would a rifle," he said.

To better help you understand, Dunn visually explains the difference between a legal rifle with a stock and an SBR with a stabilizing brace.

“So, right here is an example of a normal-style AR-15 rifle with a 16-inch barrel and a solid stock. It is a legal firearm to buy, it’s nothing more than a semi-automatic rifle like a .30-06 or .243 hunting rifle is. And then here’s the short-barrel rifle- or right now the AR-pistol, soon-to-be-called the short barrel rifle, because of the shorter barrel and because of this type of stock which can be put on your forearm and shot like a pistol," he said in the video.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2023, 01:02:18 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 31, 2023, 12:16:34 PM

More open ended learning and "fun stuff" to me doesn't sound like much learning.

I endured a little of that crap when I was in school, and it was crap.

Elon Musk’s Brain Implant Company Neuralink Says It Has US Approval to Begin Trials in People

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2023, 01:05:27 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 31, 2023, 01:02:18 PM

Elon Musk’s Brain Implant Company Neuralink Says It Has US Approval to Begin Trials in People

I nominate Cincy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 31, 2023, 01:15:13 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 31, 2023, 11:15:01 AM

hopefully, baseball

"Let's play Two" - Ernie Banks

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 31, 2023, 01:24:51 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2023, 01:05:27 PM

I nominate Cincy.

we've hacked your scans from the nuerologists office and forwarded them. Musk sent them back incomplete

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2023, 01:41:49 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on May 31, 2023, 01:15:13 PM

"Let's play Two" - Ernie Banks

first "new" baseball bat my grandfather bought for me was an "Ernie Banks" signed model

became a big fan of Ernie's when I was 7 or 8 but never rooted for the Cubs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 31, 2023, 01:55:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on May 30, 2023, 06:31:15 PM

The 11-year-old boy shot in the chest by Mississippi police after calling 911 says he prayed and sang to stay alive. Now he wants the officer fired | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/30/us/mississippi-11-year-old-shot-aderrien-murry-interview/index.html)

Sad story indeed.  CNN doesn't mention that Capers is African American.

Who is Greg Capers, the Mississippi police officer who shot unarmed 11-year-old Aderrien Murry? (yahoo.com) (https://news.yahoo.com/greg-capers-mississippi-police-officer-193850376.html)

they also never mention (not just them but pretty much all media) that vast majority violent gun crimes in US are black people shooting other black people...and black people are 10x more likely to be shot and killed than white people- yet they make up maybe 12% of the population.

fix the inner cities and school systems and I don't know...try to do something to tackle the abject poverty in the inner cities....and the gun violence will probably go down.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 31, 2023, 01:59:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 30, 2023, 04:50:06 PM

Hollywood Beach shooting suspects remain at large; 2 others in custody on firearm charges: police | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/hollywood-beach-florida-shooting-suspects-remains-large-2-others-custody-firearm-charges-police)

very sad story. Hollywood, FL is a freaking gutter pit of trash bags. Which is crazy because it's pretty close to Golden Beach, Aventura, and Sunny Isles which are all really nice wealthy areas.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2023, 02:03:29 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 31, 2023, 01:55:34 PM

they also never mention (not just them but pretty much all media) that vast majority violent gun crimes in US are black people killing other black people...and black people are 10x more likely to be shot and killed than white people- yet they make up maybe 12% of the population.

fix the inner cities and school systems and I don't know...try to do something to tackle the abject poverty in the inner cities....and the gun violence will probably go down.

I despise that terminology.

If we're gonna use it, then we also have pressure cooker violence, hammer violence (Paul Pelosi), SUV violence, knife violence, baseball bat violence, and on and on.

Killers gonna try to kill.

It's not gun violence. It's just plain violence.

Or, in most cases, GANG violence.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 31, 2023, 02:06:56 PM

FBI is refusing to hand over unclassified documents to the House Oversight Committee. Lol.

This entire unelected federal bureaucracy has run amuck and must be dismantled imo. I'm 100% on board with JFK's (RIP) whole "splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it into the winds" - but don't stop there- throw in the FBI, CDC, FDA, IRS, DHS....all of it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 31, 2023, 02:20:42 PM

Lol. Them anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorists at the Cleveland Clinic!

Welp, turns out the more boosters you got, the more likely you were to get COVID. So basically exactly what one of the pioneers of mRNA vaccines, Dr. Robert Malone- was censored and kicked off the internet for saying at the beginning of this craziness. 

https://twitter.com/MrsPitbull/status/1663321682314944513?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 31, 2023, 02:36:13 PM

Interesting.  I think you should cross-post that in the COVID thread, since it serves as a bit of a running archive for all things pandemic related.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2023, 02:45:24 PM

Quote from: utee94 on May 31, 2023, 02:36:13 PM

Interesting.  I think you should cross-post that in the COVID thread, since it serves as a bit of a running archive for all things pandemic related.

Agree.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2023, 02:46:18 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 31, 2023, 02:06:56 PM

FBI is refusing to hand over unclassified documents to the House Oversight Committee. Lol.

This entire unelected federal bureaucracy has run amuck and must be dismantled imo. I'm 100% on board with JFK's (RIP) whole "splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it into the winds" - but don't stop there- throw in the FBI, CDC, FDA, IRS, DHS....all of it.

That's why they got to him first. ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2023, 03:18:19 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 31, 2023, 01:55:34 PM

they also never mention (not just them but pretty much all media) that vast majority violent gun crimes in US are black people shooting other black people...and black people are 10x more likely to be shot and killed than white people- yet they make up maybe 12% of the population.

fix the inner cities and school systems and I don't know...try to do something to tackle the abject poverty in the inner cities....and the gun violence will probably go down.

The opposite is happening, and it's spreading.
"School choice" is going to make public schools worse and eventually kill them off.  The wealthy and the proactive will leave the deplorables behind.
Those inner city kids in abject poverty will be concentrated in public schools.
Republicans will point to their failure and say "see, we told you so," after having taken actions to ensure this to come to pass.
.
So cancel that idea.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2023, 03:31:53 PM

@OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) I moved this to here from the weather thread.

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2023, 03:02:43 PM

Cool.
You want to pay for me to move my ass back to FL? 

You don't need my money. Florida will pay for it if you qualify.

By the way, FL has school choice. The biggest hurdle to that is a bus driver shortage.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 31, 2023, 04:11:52 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2023, 03:18:19 PM

The opposite is happening, and it's spreading.
"School choice" is going to make public schools worse and eventually kill them off.  The wealthy and the proactive will leave the deplorables behind.
Those inner city kids in abject poverty will be concentrated in public schools.
Republicans will point to their failure and say "see, we told you so," after having taken actions to ensure this to come to pass.
.
So cancel that idea.

Uhh, what's to stop those "deplorables" from actually going to the better schools, if it's a true voucher model where the money follows the student? 

Oh, and I'm not sure if you've noticed it, but those inner city schools where there ISN'T school choice aren't models of success. And you really can't blame the Republicans, because they're pretty much not in charge of any big cities. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2023, 04:14:03 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 31, 2023, 04:11:52 PM

Uhh, what's to stop those "deplorables" from actually going to the better schools, if it's a true voucher model where the money follows the student?

Oh, and I'm not sure if you've noticed it, but those inner city schools where there ISN'T school choice aren't models of success. And you really can't blame the Republicans, because they're pretty much not in charge of any big cities.

Transportation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 31, 2023, 04:22:05 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2023, 04:14:03 PM

Transportation.

Not likely the problem that you might think... The issue is thinking in static terms (as OAM tends to do). The assumption is that the existing public schools will just stay there and fail. 

The idea of school choice is that the existing public schools will be forced to adapt and improve, or they'll have low enrollment and fail. If they improve, they'll have enough students to survive. If they fail, it would be likely that they get taken over by private owners who can better compete. Either way, they won't be the same failed public schools that exist there today. 

If there are kids clustered in an area, there is demand. If there is demand, schools will be sited where they can meet demand. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2023, 04:30:45 PM

I hope it helps

I fear it won't

the problem isn't with the schools, or the teachers, or the kids.

the problem is with the parents

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2023, 04:33:08 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 31, 2023, 04:22:05 PM

Not likely the problem that you might think... The issue is thinking in static terms (as OAM tends to do). The assumption is that the existing public schools will just stay there and fail.

The idea of school choice is that the existing public schools will be forced to adapt and improve, or they'll have low enrollment and fail. 

Adapt and improve.....with the students from the worst households in terms of all measures.  
That's called setting them up for failure.  
.
Charter schools might as well be called a failed socialist regime.  They're as likely to be closed down for being corrupt money-making schemes as actual schools.  
.
If all of those who try to segregate their children would just populate the neighborhood public school, everything would be better.  Not perfect, not 'fixed,' but better.
But the wealthy kids go to expensive private schools to create a ruling class.  We're gradually making the public schools worse so that we can have a servant class and keep the prisons full.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2023, 04:35:52 PM

Maybe we shouldn't have local tax dollars funding schools.  Maybe the poor neighborhood schools should get the same tax dollars as the nicer neighborhood schools.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 31, 2023, 04:51:38 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2023, 02:46:18 PM

That's why they got to him first. ;)

yup. there is zero doubt in my mind there was a faction of the CIA involved in some way with the assassination of JFK. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 31, 2023, 04:53:07 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2023, 04:33:08 PM

But the wealthy kids go to expensive private schools to create a ruling class.  We're gradually making the public schools worse so that we can have a servant class and keep the prisons full. 

the wealthy kids go to expensive private schools because....their parents can afford to send them to those better schools. are you suggesting private schools shouldn't be allowed? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2023, 04:55:56 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 31, 2023, 04:22:05 PM

Not likely the problem that you might think... The issue is thinking in static terms (as OAM tends to do). The assumption is that the existing public schools will just stay there and fail.

The idea of school choice is that the existing public schools will be forced to adapt and improve, or they'll have low enrollment and fail. If they improve, they'll have enough students to survive. If they fail, it would be likely that they get taken over by private owners who can better compete. Either way, they won't be the same failed public schools that exist there today.

If there are kids clustered in an area, there is demand. If there is demand, schools will be sited where they can meet demand.

Well, they do in Chicago, because in Chicago, nobody with enough power gives a rat's ass about the kids.

There are schools -OPEN - 20 percent occupied. The kids are being failed. Period.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 31, 2023, 04:56:50 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2023, 04:35:52 PM

Maybe we shouldn't have local tax dollars funding schools.  Maybe the poor neighborhood schools should get the same tax dollars as the nicer neighborhood schools.

plenty of federal dollars get funneled into public school systems. around 14% of all school district budgets come from fed.

Local schools should be run and funded in large part by those LOCAL communities imo.

I'd rather not have the federal swamp unelected bureaucracy gov't- which sucks donkey kong d*ck- try and take over complete funding and complete control of all the schools in the entire country. It would be a complete and utter sh*t show and schools and children would be FAR worse off than they already are.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2023, 04:59:39 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2023, 04:33:08 PM

If all of those who try to segregate their children would just populate the neighborhood public school, everything would be better.  Not perfect, not 'fixed,' but better.

But the wealthy kids go to expensive private schools to create a ruling class.  We're gradually making the public schools worse so that we can have a servant class and keep the prisons full. 

Start with this, and work forward. I know you like to blame the GOP for a lot of things, but this is not one of those things.


A 'Forgotten History' Of How The U.S. Government Segregated America : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/526655831/a-forgotten-history-of-how-the-u-s-government-segregated-america)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2023, 05:01:36 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 31, 2023, 04:56:50 PM

plenty of federal dollars get funneled into public school systems. around 14% of all school district budgets come from fed.

Federal Dept of Ed needs to go away.

I wonder who started that garbage Department.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 31, 2023, 05:02:18 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2023, 04:33:08 PM

If all of those who try to segregate their children would just populate the neighborhood public school, everything would be better.  Not perfect, not 'fixed,' but better.
But the wealthy kids go to expensive private schools to create a ruling class.  We're gradually making the public schools worse so that we can have a servant class and keep the prisons full. 

The wealthy kids don't just go to expensive private schools. The wealthy kids don't even live in those neighborhoods. They moved out a long time ago. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 31, 2023, 05:03:35 PM

Chris Christie apparently going to announce his bid to run for President and go for the GOP Presidential nomination. Lol. This guy is such a loud mouth windbag fat sloppy fk- that no one is going to vote for. Ever.

Can someone get this fat fk a lifetime gift card to Krispy Kreme so he'll just fk off and go away forever? He'd take that bribe imo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2023, 05:03:50 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 31, 2023, 05:02:18 PM

The wealthy kids don't just go to expensive private schools. The wealthy kids don't even live in those neighborhoods. They moved out a long time ago.

Which was designed to happen through social "engineering".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on May 31, 2023, 05:04:57 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2023, 05:01:36 PM

Federal Dept of Ed needs to go away.

I wonder who started that garbage Department.

the worst President ever since the current worst President ever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2023, 05:04:59 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 31, 2023, 05:03:35 PM

Chris Christie apparently going to announce his bid to run for President and go for the GOP Presidential nomination. Lol. This guy is such a loud mouth windbag fat sloppy fk- that no one is going to vote for. Ever.

Can someone get this fat fk a lifetime gift card to Krispy Kreme so he'll just fk off and go away forever? He'd take that bribe imo.

Still can't get over the sweaty pits thing. What was that, 2008?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 31, 2023, 05:07:31 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 31, 2023, 05:04:57 PM

the worst President ever since the current worst President ever.

I'd look back to 1933 for the answer to worst.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on May 31, 2023, 05:09:47 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2023, 04:35:52 PM

Maybe we shouldn't have local tax dollars funding schools.  Maybe the poor neighborhood schools should get the same tax dollars as the nicer neighborhood schools.

In Texas, a certain portion of a local district's tax revenue can be appropriated by the state and sent to districts that the state considers under-funded.  The state government calls it "recapture" but most everyone else refers to it as the "Robin Hood" act.  Robbing from the rich, giving to the poor.

In an outcome that surprises absolutely no one with any intellectual capacity whatsoever, it's a failure.  It has not helped the poorer districts in any tangible way, but it certainly has harmed the districts that are getting robbed, as they are now in a constant state of cutting employees and services to the students.  It's a government-mandated and government-orchestrated race to the bottom.

Austin Independent School District pays out over 50% of its revenue to Robin Hood recapture, watching all of that revenue get shipped hundreds of miles away, meanwhile its own students are suffering, schools are cutting services, and educational outcomes are declining in most metrics for success.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 31, 2023, 07:46:13 PM

When I see this many posts this close together in this particular thread, it leads me to believe that I should not bother reading back.

(shit, the post above this one has some thing that I’m curious about and now I have to decide if I want to delve in)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2023, 08:43:57 PM

Quote from: utee94 on May 31, 2023, 05:09:47 PM

In an outcome that surprises absolutely no one with any intellectual capacity whatsoever, it's a failure.  It has not helped the poorer districts in any tangible way, but it certainly has harmed the districts that are getting robbed, as they are now in a constant state of cutting employees and services to the students.  It's a government-mandated and government-orchestrated race to the bottom.

Isn't this called a reality check?  Sucks to not get the funding you need, don't it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 31, 2023, 09:09:34 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 31, 2023, 02:20:42 PM

Lol. Them anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorists at the Cleveland Clinic!

Maybe if the Browns were funded like the Clinic down the Road they could pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Doubt Dr Malone would stoop to what ever Deshaun,Myles or Denzel are making

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on May 31, 2023, 09:18:04 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 31, 2023, 04:33:08 PM

.
If all of those who try to segregate their children would just populate the neighborhood public school, everything would be better.  Not perfect, not 'fixed,' but better.
But the wealthy kids go to expensive private schools to create a ruling class.  We're gradually making the public schools worse so that we can have a servant class and keep the prisons full. 

You picked the wrong to quit sniffing glue

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 31, 2023, 10:17:46 PM

Quote from: utee94 on May 31, 2023, 05:09:47 PM

In Texas, a certain portion of a local district's tax revenue can be appropriated by the state and sent to districts that the state considers under-funded.  The state government calls it "recapture" but most everyone else refers to it as the "Robin Hood" act.  Robbing from the rich, giving to the poor.

In an outcome that surprises absolutely no one with any intellectual capacity whatsoever, it's a failure.  It has not helped the poorer districts in any tangible way, but it certainly has harmed the districts that are getting robbed, as they are now in a constant state of cutting employees and services to the students.  It's a government-mandated and government-orchestrated race to the bottom.

Austin Independent School District pays out over 50% of its revenue to Robin Hood recapture, watching all of that revenue get shipped hundreds of miles away, meanwhile its own students are suffering, schools are cutting services, and educational outcomes are declining in most metrics for success.

Well, now I went and did a little reading on that. That system is buck wild. Very dumb, and I guess stuck because they don't have a better system. 

Weird stuff. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on May 31, 2023, 10:53:41 PM

My school district isn’t lucky enough to be rich nor poor, so we don’t get any money and we don’t give any money. Most of the neighboring districts are rich, but some don’t have to give up any cash because they have enough enrollment. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on May 31, 2023, 11:22:54 PM

Quote from: Gigem on May 31, 2023, 10:53:41 PM

My school district isn’t lucky enough to be rich nor poor, so we don’t get any money and we don’t give any money. Most of the neighboring districts are rich, but some don’t have to give up any cash because they have enough enrollment.

The numbers it's pegged to seem in theory well-intentioned, but ultimately an issue. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2023, 11:24:50 PM

glad my kids are out of school

no grandkids in site

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2023, 11:25:41 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on May 31, 2023, 11:22:54 PM

The numbers it's pegged to seem in theory well-intentioned, but ultimately an issue.

there are most times, good intentions

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 01, 2023, 06:27:17 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on May 31, 2023, 05:03:35 PM

Chris Christie apparently going to announce his bid to run for President and go for the GOP Presidential nomination. Lol. This guy is such a loud mouth windbag fat sloppy fk- that no one is going to vote for. Ever.

Can someone get this fat fk a lifetime gift card to Krispy Kreme so he'll just fk off and go away forever? He'd take that bribe imo.

What's wrong with Hostess,Dunkin Donuts,Tim Hortons? Dafuq learn how to bribe.In the meantime time give Brandon,Pelosi & Feinstein their sippy cupps and depends and send them on their way

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 01, 2023, 08:36:28 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 01, 2023, 06:27:17 AM

What's wrong with Hostess,Dunkin Donuts,Tim Hortons? Dafuq learn how to bribe.In the meantime time give Brandon,Pelosi & Feinstein their sippy cupps and depends and send them on their way

Krispy Kreme where it's at bro. Chris Christie is a fat disgusting slob, so you're right- probably would have to get his fat ass some gift cards to all those places.

Couldn't agree more. Brandon, Pelosi, and Feinstein belong in nursing homes....not in major positions of power and running the fk'n country. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 01, 2023, 09:07:27 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on May 31, 2023, 11:25:41 PM

there are most times, good intentions

Yup.  The road to hell and all...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 01, 2023, 09:09:34 AM

Probably an unpopular opinion, but I find Krispy Kreme donuts to be pretty average.  I mean, they're tasty. I'll eat one when it's the only option.  

But we have several local bakeries that produce a superior product IMO.  With the added bonus that they also bake and sell kolaches and klobasnek.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 01, 2023, 09:14:03 AM

Not a KK fan at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 01, 2023, 09:16:00 AM

A couple of our bakeries make a boudin kolache.  The improper nomenclature aside (it should be called a boudin klobasnek), they are flipping delicious.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 01, 2023, 09:21:43 AM

Krispy Kreme opened their first store in the Twin Cities in April of my senior year of HS. For the first month or so, the lines to get donuts were off-the-wall crazy, including at 12:30 AM on a Saturday night in which it had been snowing hard all day (yes, it snows in April).

The buzz wore off quickly. They were totally out of the market in less than 3 years.

Their donuts were okay. Kwik Trip makes better glazed donuts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 01, 2023, 09:29:37 AM

I've always thought of KK as a California thing, but just googled it and apparently it started in North Carolina and first franchised across the southeast.

Learn something new every day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 01, 2023, 09:41:28 AM

kolaches and klobasnek:)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 01, 2023, 09:54:25 AM

If I'm going to eat a donut, I'm going to a local. Much better than any chain.

The best donuts I've had come from a place in my old town. Owner is a great friend too.

Morkes Chocolates - The Chocolate Shop | Official Site (https://morkeschocolates.com/)

Our go-to here is

Nino's Bakery & Cafe | Best Bakery, Breakfasts and Lunches at Nino's, Punta Gorda (ninosbakery.us) (https://ninosbakery.us/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 01, 2023, 10:10:44 AM

Quote from: utee94 on June 01, 2023, 09:29:37 AM

I've always thought of KK as a California thing, 

They are scattered about here pretty prominently.  One near me is owned by Shaq and burned a few years back and is being rebuilt.

You know he never signs a letter with "Love"?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 01, 2023, 10:35:52 AM

that's ok with me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 01, 2023, 10:36:24 AM

I don't eat many donuts
not a breakfast guy
and save my carbs for beer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 01, 2023, 10:39:30 AM

My last donut was on Fat Tuesday. Shipped from Palatine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 01, 2023, 10:39:38 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 01, 2023, 09:41:28 AM

kolaches and klobasnek:)

Kolache:

(https://i.imgur.com/jkljuNu.png)
Klobasnek:


(https://i.imgur.com/KBwvbX0.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/ePrPUkO.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/5RtgUMO.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 01, 2023, 10:41:34 AM

so, of course this pops up on my FB feed..........

Have y'all been to check out our new location in South Austin? Located in the @thicketaustin . All the Kerlaches you love now south of the river.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/350863622_786108543191277_8486489259458233366_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=a26aad&_nc_ohc=pGvq_kQXqbcAX8KkL4-&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDBV3HKUBHd2DZjosy_MPuKKEz_d_C7IQDWWy05163IFA&oe=647E9BF6)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 01, 2023, 10:43:19 AM

Those kerlaches are the real deal.  Filled with smoked brisket or smoked sausage.  They're fantastic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2023, 10:50:10 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 01, 2023, 10:36:24 AM

I don't eat many donuts
not a breakfast guy
and save my carbs for beer

Same here. I love salty, spicy, sour, bitter, and umami, but I'm not a sweets guy. If I'm having breakfast, I prefer a breakfast sandwich to a donut. 

And beer is a great source of carbs. Especially hoppy, bitter IPA ;-) 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 01, 2023, 10:54:03 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2023, 10:50:10 AM

Same here. I love salty, spicy, sour, bitter, and umami, but I'm not a sweets guy. If I'm having breakfast, I prefer a breakfast sandwich to a donut.

And beer is a great source of carbs. Especially hoppy, bitter IPA ;-)

Yes, it's bacon. Make an exception maybe.


(https://i.imgur.com/FIsv6Sw.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 01, 2023, 11:05:35 AM

I'm not big on sweets, either.  I like pumpkin and pecan and sweet potato pie at Thanksgiving, and I like ice cream especially in the summer.  I like a good blueberry cobbler made in a Dutch oven buried in the campfire coals whilst camping.  But I don't eat much of any of them, even when the season or occasion calls for it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2023, 11:08:56 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 01, 2023, 10:54:03 AM

Yes, it's bacon. Make an exception maybe.


(https://i.imgur.com/FIsv6Sw.png)

I'll take 3. Hold the cake and frosting. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 01, 2023, 11:09:12 AM

I read enough about the problems with sugar to minimize it to the extent reasonable, fructose in particular.  It's metabolized differently from glucose.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 01, 2023, 11:28:22 AM

Quote from: utee94 on June 01, 2023, 11:05:35 AM

I'm not big on sweets, either.  I like pumpkin and pecan and sweet potato pie at Thanksgiving, and I like ice cream especially in the summer.  I like a good blueberry cobbler made in a Dutch oven buried in the campfire coals whilst camping.  But I don't eat much of any of them, even when the season or occasion calls for it.

This is me, minus pecans. Can't stand those.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 01, 2023, 11:47:06 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2023, 11:08:56 AM

I'll take 3. Hold the cake and frosting.

hopefully that's a bagel with cream cheese

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 01, 2023, 12:20:34 PM

Quote from: utee94 on June 01, 2023, 09:09:34 AM

Probably an unpopular opinion, but I find Krispy Kreme donuts to be pretty average.  I mean, they're tasty. I'll eat one when it's the only option. 

But we have several local bakeries that produce a superior product IMO.  With the added bonus that they also bake and sell kolaches and klobasnek.

Can honestly say haven't eaten those sugar laden puff pockets for quite some time. Cindy just finished an apple pie of sorts only at sprinkle of brown sugar added for the oatmeal topping along with a dash or two of cinnamon. Might chase it with a Leinenkugel Juicy peach

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 01, 2023, 12:28:59 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 01, 2023, 12:20:34 PM

Can honestly say haven't eaten those sugar laden puff pockets for quite some time. Cindy just finished an apple pie of sorts only at sprinkle of brown sugar added for the oatmeal topping along with a dash or two of cinnamon. Might chase it with a Leinenkugel Juicy peach

Sounds like a darn fine lunch!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2023, 03:21:47 PM

Fun day. Have the damn dryer open... Again. I've replaced the heater element and associated sensors/etc twice, had to replace the idler pulley and belt once, and now the damn thing trips the breaker every time I try to start a cycle. Worked fine for multiple loads Monday. Tried one load Tuesday and it cuts out basically immediately. 

Happens on air fluff and I've tested the heater element and no short there, so I don't think it's the heater. I've pulled the motor and with a multimeter I don't see any direct shorts from any terminal (except GND obv) to the frame of the motor, so it's not an obvious problem. Plus I would assume a direct short in the motor wouldn't cause the dryer to even ATTEMPT to spin up, and would trip as soon as I hit the start button. But in this case it takes 1-2 seconds for the motor to start spinning up before it trips. 

But I'm still thinking it's the motor, so I guess I'll just have my dryer in pieces in the garage until tomorrow when Amazon delivers a new motor. 

Ugh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 01, 2023, 03:29:13 PM

Quote from: utee94 on June 01, 2023, 09:09:34 AM

Probably an unpopular opinion, but I find Krispy Kreme donuts to be pretty average.  I mean, they're tasty. I'll eat one when it's the only option. 

But we have several local bakeries that produce a superior product IMO.  With the added bonus that they also bake and sell kolaches and klobasnek.

Average sugar water-ass doughnut. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 01, 2023, 03:30:22 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2023, 03:21:47 PM

Fun day. Have the damn dryer open... Again. I've replaced the heater element and associated sensors/etc twice, had to replace the idler pulley and belt once, and now the damn thing trips the breaker every time I try to start a cycle. Worked fine for multiple loads Monday. Tried one load Tuesday and it cuts out basically immediately.

Happens on air fluff and I've tested the heater element and no short there, so I don't think it's the heater. I've pulled the motor and with a multimeter I don't see any direct shorts from any terminal (except GND obv) to the frame of the motor, so it's not an obvious problem. Plus I would assume a direct short in the motor wouldn't cause the dryer to even ATTEMPT to spin up, and would trip as soon as I hit the start button. But in this case it takes 1-2 seconds for the motor to start spinning up before it trips.

But I'm still thinking it's the motor, so I guess I'll just have my dryer in pieces in the garage until tomorrow when Amazon delivers a new motor.

Ugh.

Isn't the owner responsible for this crap??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 01, 2023, 03:32:13 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2023, 10:50:10 AM

Same here. I love salty, spicy, sour, bitter, and umami, but I'm not a sweets guy. If I'm having breakfast, I prefer a breakfast sandwich to a donut.

And beer is a great source of carbs. Especially hoppy, bitter IPA ;-)

Good breakfast, too

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 01, 2023, 03:34:37 PM

Quote from: utee94 on June 01, 2023, 09:29:37 AM

I've always thought of KK as a California thing, but just googled it and apparently it started in North Carolina and first franchised across the southeast.

Learn something new every day.

Interesting. They didn’t get to my part of NorCal until I was in middle school. They had a burst of novelty and then fell back. 

There’s a great documentary, maybe on Netflix about the rise and fall of the Laotian doughnut king of Southern California. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 01, 2023, 04:19:13 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2023, 03:21:47 PM

Fun day. Have the damn dryer open... Again. I've replaced the heater element and associated sensors/etc twice, had to replace the idler pulley and belt once, and now the damn thing trips the breaker every time I try to start a cycle. Worked fine for multiple loads Monday. Tried one load Tuesday and it cuts out basically immediately.

Happens on air fluff and I've tested the heater element and no short there, so I don't think it's the heater. I've pulled the motor and with a multimeter I don't see any direct shorts from any terminal (except GND obv) to the frame of the motor, so it's not an obvious problem. Plus I would assume a direct short in the motor wouldn't cause the dryer to even ATTEMPT to spin up, and would trip as soon as I hit the start button. But in this case it takes 1-2 seconds for the motor to start spinning up before it trips.

But I'm still thinking it's the motor, so I guess I'll just have my dryer in pieces in the garage until tomorrow when Amazon delivers a new motor.

Ugh.

time to call the man

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 01, 2023, 04:23:15 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2023, 03:21:47 PM

Fun day. Have the damn dryer open... Again. I've replaced the heater element and associated sensors/etc twice, had to replace the idler pulley and belt once, and now the damn thing trips the breaker every time I try to start a cycle. Worked fine for multiple loads Monday. Tried one load Tuesday and it cuts out basically immediately.

Happens on air fluff and I've tested the heater element and no short there, so I don't think it's the heater. I've pulled the motor and with a multimeter I don't see any direct shorts from any terminal (except GND obv) to the frame of the motor, so it's not an obvious problem. Plus I would assume a direct short in the motor wouldn't cause the dryer to even ATTEMPT to spin up, and would trip as soon as I hit the start button. But in this case it takes 1-2 seconds for the motor to start spinning up before it trips.

But I'm still thinking it's the motor, so I guess I'll just have my dryer in pieces in the garage until tomorrow when Amazon delivers a new motor.

Ugh.

Ask your husband to give it a try.

Sorry, spending too much time on surlyhorns lately. :)

Is the breaker a GFCI breaker?  If so, it's possible that it's weak and starting to let go.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2023, 04:26:13 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 01, 2023, 03:30:22 PM

Isn't the owner responsible for this crap??

No, it's a SFH rental with washer/dryer hookups but I had to supply my own. If it turns out to be something wrong with the breaker, it's his responsibility. But the dryer is self-owned and my own responsibility. 

I don't think it's a weak breaker though. I'd expect that to have been a more progressive and intermittent issue, not something that happens literally within 1.5s of hitting the start button, when it's never tripped before. 

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 01, 2023, 04:19:13 PM

time to call the man

I am the man lol. Calling in an appliance repairman might be easier, but I don't think there's anything they'll be able to do that I can't, and it'll be a damn sight more money. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2023, 04:30:08 PM

Quote from: utee94 on June 01, 2023, 04:23:15 PM

Ask your husband to give it a try.

Sorry, spending too much time on surlyhorns lately. :)

Is the breaker a GFCI breaker?  If so, it's possible that it's weak and starting to let go.

Lol. 

No, not GFCI. Fairly old construction. Per above, I don't imagine that a weak breaker would be an immediate trip. Especially when I see the same thing where I choose "air fluff" and so the heater element isn't even being energized. Something's drawing way too much current, and I'm thinking it's gotta be the motor. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 01, 2023, 05:11:25 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2023, 04:30:08 PM

Lol.

No, not GFCI. Fairly old construction. Per above, I don't imagine that a weak breaker would be an immediate trip. Especially when I see the same thing where I choose "air fluff" and so the heater element isn't even being energized. Something's drawing way too much current, and I'm thinking it's gotta be the motor.

The situation you described is very unusual.

For one thing, the heating element typically draws a LOT more juice than the motor so if it was a weak breaker it would still almost certainly work on the no-heat air fluff setting.

The motor itself should hit it's maximum draw when starting up*. Thus, if the motor was going to pop the breaker it would ordinarily do it on start-up, not a couple seconds later.

Dryer motors are usually 120v but the heating element is 240v so the motor itself is only using one half of the circuit.

Replacing the breaker isn't terribly difficult, you should be able to get one at any HD/Lowes, and that would save you some time diagnostically because you could at least rule that out.

*Example:
I've run into a situation multiple times where the kitchen breaker will trip if the refrigerator kicks on while the toaster or toaster oven is on. However, if you start up the toaster while the refrigerator is already running, no problem. The situation is basically this:

• Toaster draws 1,200 Watts. At 120V that is 10 Amps (Amps*Volts=Watts).
• Refrigerator draws 480 Watts running but 720 Watts on start-up. At 120V that is 4/6 Amps.
• The combined draw is thus 14 Amps when the Refrigerator is running and 16 Amps when the refrigerator starts up.
• If this is a 15 Amp breaker (cheaper because you can use smaller, 14 GA wire instead of larger 12 GA wire) then it will trip if the refrigerator kicks on while the toaster is on but NOT if you start the toaster after the refrigerator starts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 01, 2023, 05:37:37 PM

This is why I changed out all of the kitchen and bathroom circuits to 20 amp when we moved in here. This was not easy since they use Romex down here. No conduit to be found. 

I gave my Greenlee fish tape and conduit bender to my electrician son. No use for those here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 01, 2023, 06:01:30 PM

https://apple.news/ARbKQLg3-QyC5rMjRp0ofbg

Organized Retail Crime. 

Not an easy fix.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2023, 06:20:13 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 01, 2023, 06:01:30 PM

https://apple.news/ARbKQLg3-QyC5rMjRp0ofbg

Organized Retail Crime.

Not an easy fix. 

Huh, so when I'm shopping at felloffthebackofatruck.com -- I'm supporting these guys?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 01, 2023, 06:29:11 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2023, 06:20:13 PM

Huh, so when I'm shopping at felloffthebackofatruck.com -- I'm supporting these guys?

Apparently so. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 01, 2023, 06:43:18 PM

Is that a real website? lol

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 01, 2023, 06:50:06 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 01, 2023, 05:11:25 PM

The situation you described is very unusual.

For one thing, the heating element typically draws a LOT more juice than the motor so if it was a weak breaker it would still almost certainly work on the no-heat air fluff setting.

The motor itself should hit it's maximum draw when starting up*. Thus, if the motor was going to pop the breaker it would ordinarily do it on start-up, not a couple seconds later.

Dryer motors are usually 120v but the heating element is 240v so the motor itself is only using one half of the circuit.

Replacing the breaker isn't terribly difficult, you should be able to get one at any HD/Lowes, and that would save you some time diagnostically because you could at least rule that out.

*Example:
I've run into a situation multiple times where the kitchen breaker will trip if the refrigerator kicks on while the toaster or toaster oven is on. However, if you start up the toaster while the refrigerator is already running, no problem. The situation is basically this:

• Toaster draws 1,200 Watts. At 120V that is 10 Amps (Amps*Volts=Watts).
• Refrigerator draws 480 Watts running but 720 Watts on start-up. At 120V that is 4/6 Amps.
• The combined draw is thus 14 Amps when the Refrigerator is running and 16 Amps when the refrigerator starts up.
• If this is a 15 Amp breaker (cheaper because you can use smaller, 14 GA wire instead of larger 12 GA wire) then it will trip if the refrigerator kicks on while the toaster is on but NOT if you start the toaster after the refrigerator starts.

Yup, you're describing motor inrush current or locked rotor current.  Can sometimes be up to 20x more than normal operating current at regular operating speeds.

https://www.jadelearning.com/blog/understanding-motor-starting-inrush-currents-nec-article-430-52/#:~:text=Inrush%20current%2C%20also%20referred%20to,switching%20on)%20of%20the%20motor.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2023, 06:53:01 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 01, 2023, 06:43:18 PM

Is that a real website? lol

Of course not. It was the joke that my buddies and I had whenever anyone claimed they got a good deal in the late 90s when the "dotcom boom" was in full swing. 

"Man, this thing retails for $200 and I got it for $100!"
"What, didja get that from felloffthebackofatruck.com???"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2023, 07:04:32 PM

Quote from: utee94 on June 01, 2023, 06:50:06 PM

Yup, you're describing motor inrush current or locked rotor current.  Can sometimes be up to 20x more than normal operating current at regular operating speeds.

https://www.jadelearning.com/blog/understanding-motor-starting-inrush-currents-nec-article-430-52/#:~:text=Inrush%20current%2C%20also%20referred%20to,switching%20on)%20of%20the%20motor.

Yep. And although it's not motor-related, I have two real-world examples from my own industry where inrush current or high instantaneous current draw was causing device failures--but NOT to the device requiring that current. Because while you'd hope that a new device that's plugged in get its power from the power supply, it doesn't care if it gets power from wherever charge exists. I.e. in both cases, the addition of a massive power suck on the bus triggered (in one case) a reverse current protection circuit in a device that caused issues, and (another case) a localized low-voltage brownout situation on another device on a power cable that services multiple devices. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 01, 2023, 07:46:49 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2023, 06:20:13 PM

Huh, so when I'm shopping at felloffthebackofatruck.com -- I'm supporting these guys?

But those deals! You used to have to go to a flea market for those

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 01, 2023, 08:22:42 PM

Back in the 80s/90s, were dudes selling speakers out of the back of a white van a thing in your area, too?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2023, 08:25:07 PM

Quote from: utee94 on June 01, 2023, 08:22:42 PM

Back in the 80s/90s, were dudes selling speakers out of the back of a white van a thing in your area, too?

Pretty sure that was a thing everywhere... I didn't buy any. I bought my massive Cerwin Vega speakers via my employee discount as a teen working at Best Buy lol. 

I remember a couple years later (mid-2000s???) people selling steaks out of the trunk of a car, which I also didn't buy. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 01, 2023, 08:38:45 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2023, 08:25:07 PM

Pretty sure that was a thing everywhere... I didn't buy any. I bought my massive Cerwin Vega speakers via my employee discount as a teen working at Best Buy lol.

I remember a couple years later (mid-2000s???) people selling steaks out of the trunk of a car, which I also didn't buy.

wow what could possibly go wrong there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 01, 2023, 10:01:19 PM

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives is clarifying that despite the recent legalization of cannabis in Minnesota, users of the substance cannot own guns. WCCO reports that a 1968 federal law remains in place until marijuana legalization is recognized nationally.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on June 01, 2023, 10:01:29 PM

Firstly I had almost the exact issue a few months ago. It would run, and then trip. Run fine for 2-3 days, then trip. It was a bad breaker. 

It could also be a short in the wire between the breaker and dryer. 

I have several troubleshooting tools such as old school analog Simpson Ohm meters, fluke meters, and mega ohm meters. As a licensed water well and pump installer I deal with this stuff frequently. 

I’m betting it’s either a weak breaker, or a short in the dryer. Because if it was a bad motor it would still run for a few seconds, or attempt to run because it’s a 30 amp circuit. Dryer motor is probably like 1/3 hp, even locked up the breaker should not trip immediately. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 01, 2023, 10:03:31 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/UtIp8dy.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 01, 2023, 10:33:29 PM

SEC going with 8-game schedule for 2024.
It's likely that they're doing this to extract more money from ESPN for that 9th game, with OU and Texas in tow.  They'll likely get it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2023, 07:32:58 AM

Our dryer went out a few weeks back, it would run, but no heat, and it wouldn't stop unless you opened the door.  Tech cam and said the computer board was bad, $420 for that puppy.  Washer/dryer set ten years old, my wife wanted new stacked units.

That got pricey, but the stacked configuration provided more usable room in our small laundry room.

I had checked the dryer vent tube for blockage, it was clear.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 02, 2023, 08:39:07 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 01, 2023, 10:33:29 PM

SEC going with 8-game schedule for 2024.
It's likely that they're doing this to extract more money from ESPN for that 9th game, with OU and Texas in tow.  They'll likely get it.

Yeah they're not going to give it to Disney for free. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2023, 08:43:28 AM

Speaking of graduations, we've been seeing a LOT of graduation groups around here, that is, a group of nattily attired families of 5-6-7 looking about often for a place to eat.  One of them might still be in the gown.  They seem happy, which is a good thing of course.  I went to my HS graduation, it was pretty boring but everyone did.  I went to neither college graduation, it seemed pointless, I did go with family to see my sister graduate from UGA, and I saw daughter graduate from OSU.

I know I'm old and jaded about such things and usually consider any event in terms of whether it's gonna matter to all.  I'm happy that some families treat it as a very uplifting positive thing, and of course then the Real World sets in for most.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 02, 2023, 08:44:12 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 01, 2023, 04:30:08 PM

Lol.

No, not GFCI. Fairly old construction. 

Actually happened to me it was one of the 3 fuses on the disconnect

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 02, 2023, 10:40:11 AM

I have a 55 year old Maytag washer and drier

they have been serviced once and just keep going

Im dreding the day I have to replace them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 02, 2023, 10:41:52 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 01, 2023, 05:37:37 PM

This is why I changed out all of the kitchen and bathroom circuits to 20 amp when we moved in here. This was not easy since they use Romex down here. No conduit to be found.

I gave my Greenlee fish tape and conduit bender to my electrician son. No use for those here.

Am easier fix that usually works is to just add an extra 15 Amp breaker and put the refrigerator on that one, alone. That is how we usually handle it because it doesn't involve replacing existing 14 GA wire with 12 GA. It also can be dangerous to swap because it is always possible that you'll miss a spot where someone (either original or later) tapped into the 15 Amp circuit for something and used 14 GA wire because it was a 15 Amp circuit so they could. 

Someday I'm going to remodel my kitchen and when I do, I'll pretty much rewire EVERYTHING in 20 Amp with 12 GA wire.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 02, 2023, 10:47:40 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 02, 2023, 08:43:28 AM

Speaking of graduations, we've been seeing a LOT of graduation groups around here, that is, a group of nattily attired families of 5-6-7 looking about often for a place to eat.  One of them might still be in the gown.  They seem happy, which is a good thing of course.  I went to my HS graduation, it was pretty boring but everyone did.  I went to neither college graduation, it seemed pointless, I did go with family to see my sister graduate from UGA, and I saw daughter graduate from OSU.

 
My commencement happened the Friday night before finals week. I refused to get excited because I still had at least 3 finals yet to take, any one of which would have sunk me.

Engineers always seemed to draw into the last slot on finals week. I once took a final from 4-6 PM on Saturday, December 23. That stunk.

Due to lack of a suitable venue (Mariucci Arena is currently being gutted to replace the cooling plant under the ice), the U of M changed their commencements this spring from each college having a ceremony to one giant stadium commencement in which only PhD students would walk across the stage. Based on the amount of whining and gnashing of teeth from those affected, you would think that it was the biggest issue facing higher ed in Minnesota.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 02, 2023, 11:04:55 AM

Since I brought it up, I'll explain my kitchen remodel project and see if any of you have ideas/advice I can use.  

First, I should say, this will not be terribly soon because the previous owner finished the basement which makes it impossible for me to get to the breaker box to run new circuits.  Thus, project #1 is to remove the drywall ceiling in that part of the basement and replace it with a dropped ceiling so that I'll have removable panels and the ability to run wires to the box to add circuits as necessary.  

Some of you know, I got married LATE in life and my wife is my age (she looks younger).  Anyway, we were both over 40 when we got married and we had both been living on our own for ~20 years.  Consequently, we had two of basically everything.  When we moved into our house we had about 12 boxes of stuff labeled "kitchen".  The first three boxes filled all of our kitchen cabinets and then we looked at each other and said "ok, now what?".  

The eventual answer to that question is this:

• Our kitchen isn't tiny but it isn't huge either and has VERY little cabinet/counter space.  They only put cabinets on two walls and left the other two, I think because they feared that cabinets on all four walls would make the space look too small.  The kitchen is about 12' x 14' so 168 sqft.  Adjacent to it there is a traditional dining room of equal size.  The wall between them is NOT a bearing wall so I can take it out.  That will give me a 24' x 14' or 336 sqft eat-in kitchen.  
• With the kitchen literally doubled in size, I'll be able to put cabinets on all walls without cramming the space.  The exceptions are that the existing dining room has an archway opening (full 12' width, but with a header) to the living room.  Also, at the opposite end of the dining room (back wall of our house) there is a window which will be replaced by a door out to our deck.  Other than those two things and space for appliances (stove and refrigerator) I'll have cabinets all around.  
• I also plan to build one of these (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN3cJgTlYTM).  I love the versatility of a movable island.  We'll be replacing cabinets anyway so I can buy the cabinets for the island at the same time so that they will match.  Mine, however, will be much more extensive than the one that Bob Vila built in that clip.  Mine will probably be 4' x 8' overall with cabinets underneath taking up a 28" by 76" space thus leaving 10" over overhang all the way around.  That will make this into a giant countertop.  I'll also wire it (plug on side coming from underneath) That way when we use it as a buffet, we'll have power for crock pots or whatever.  When we use it as a table for the kids we'll be able to charge devices.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 02, 2023, 11:16:38 AM

So I wanted to chime in on this school thing that was a topic a few pages back.  

First, I want to take this opportunity to agree with @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) on something.  He commented on the charter schools getting better students and he is absolutely right here.  The sad reality in a lot of ghetto schools is that the parents are horrible.  The few whose parents (LoL, parent as nearly nobody in ghettos has two of them) who actually are smart and conscientious and care enough to bother to get their kids signed up for the charter school option are the best parents.  Those kids were already going to be the best students.  

This obviously creates a massive selection bias issue.  Students at the charter schools nearly always do better but realistically that doesn't prove that the charter schools are any better.  They might even be worse but they have better students with better parental support at home so the end results look better.  Charter schools then use the end results to "prove" their worth which is outright silly.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 02, 2023, 11:17:13 AM

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/national-donut-day-2023-deals-get-free-donuts-at-krispy-kreme-dunkin-and-more-friday/ar-AA1bYvmf


You all were talking about doughnuts the other day.  Did I miss it- or did you not mention that today is national donut day?

Hell yes! A built in excuse!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 02, 2023, 11:21:17 AM

Now that I've agreed with @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) , I'll disagree with him.  He commented about poorer districts needing more money.  I worked in lots of school districts.  The poor area urban districts have LOTS of money.  Granted, they waste most of it, but they aren't lacking for funds.  On a per student basis, the urban districts spend LOTS of money at least close to as much as the rich suburban districts.  The reason is two things:

• Most states have some sort of "Robin Hood" provision as @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) described for Texas.  
• Many federal grants are based to one degree or another on percentage of students or number of students on the free lunch program which effectively gives the poorer districts TONS of federal money.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2023, 11:30:11 AM

The urban HS near me has some super nice facilities.  I gather they have money.

Midtown High School - Atlanta, Georgia - GA | GreatSchools (https://www.greatschools.org/georgia/atlanta/61-Grady-High-School/)

College Readiness
Low-income and underserved students 
16%
All other students 
84%

Test Scores
Low-income and underserved students 
45%
All other students 
88%

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 02, 2023, 12:45:20 PM

The Texas one was also interesting becuase it adjusted up for rural students, and was also totally locked into property taxes, which creates some interesting warping. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 02, 2023, 12:45:58 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 02, 2023, 11:16:38 AM

First, I want to take this opportunity to agree with @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) on something.  He commented on the charter schools getting better students and he is absolutely right here.  The sad reality in a lot of ghetto schools is that the parents are horrible.  The few whose parents (LoL, parent as nearly nobody in ghettos has two of them) who actually are smart and conscientious and care enough to bother to get their kids signed up for the charter school option are the best parents.  Those kids were already going to be the best students. 

That's a dark thing to laugh about right there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 02, 2023, 01:08:22 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 02, 2023, 11:04:55 AM

Thus, project #1 is to remove the drywall ceiling in that part of the basement and replace it with a dropped ceiling so that I'll have removable panels and the ability to run wires to the box to add circuits as necessary.

Evidently the guy who had this house built in'68 was an electrician and he panneled half the basement and installed outlets every 8 ft or so.  He also DW'ed the ceiling there wish to GOD he'd have done the drop easy peazy for access

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 02, 2023, 01:29:08 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 02, 2023, 01:08:22 PM

Evidently the guy who had this house built in'68 was an electrician and he panneled half the basement and installed outlets every 8 ft or so.  He also DW'ed the ceiling there wish to GOD he'd have done the drop easy peazy for access

If you decide to replace it, I've used some all pvc drop ceiling that worked really well for me.  With the old stuff the metal rails could rust and the fiber? panels were notorious for absorbing water.  The ones I've used lately I got at Menards and both the rails and the panels were pvc such that water does not damage them or infiltrate them.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 02, 2023, 01:48:43 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 02, 2023, 12:45:58 PM

That's a dark thing to laugh about right there.

It is and it is incredibly sad but it is a humongous factor in all of this and I'll take this opportunity to elaborate on that.  

Around half of all US births are to unmarried mothers.  I had never really thought about it and just kinda assumed that other than a bit of a variation racially, this was more-or-less an across-the-spectrum issue.  It most certainly is NOT.  I can't find the source right now but among white women with college degrees more than 90% of those with children are married.  These people are decidedly NOT from the ghetto.  

If you go back to the 1950's - 1960's there was almost no variation of marriage rates by class.  There was some by race but almost none by class.  Today the racial gap is bigger AND we've added a class gap.  

Basically what has happened is that marriage has become a luxury that only the relatively well-to-do enjoy.  Poorer children of all races are generally raised by single mothers.  

On top of this, there is another issue.  Years ago you used to hear a lot about people being the first in their family to go to or graduate from college.  That has become a lot more rare.  What we now see instead is that the bulk of kids fit into one of two boxes:

• Two married parents, both college educated.  
• Single mother with a HS Diploma (at best) and absent (or outright unknown) father.  

Worse, this sorting has been going on long enough that it is now multi-generational such that most of the kids in group #1, in addition to having two college educated parents, also have four college educated grandparents and frequently college educated aunts and uncles as well.  Meanwhile the kids in group #2 tend to have less grandparent involvement (because the missing dad's parents are also missing) and rarely have college educated grandparents, aunts, or uncles.  

This creates a vast gulf between group #1 and group #2.  For one thing, intelligence is at least partially heritable so the kids in group #1, on average, are smarter than the kids in group #2 to begin with.  They also have smarter and more involved parents, grandparents, aunts, and uncles.  The kids in group #1 have advantages that the kids in group #2 simply do not have.  

This is where @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) has a very valid point that should not be ignored.  If you are a teacher in a district with mostly kids from group #2 and I am a teacher in a district with mostly kids from group #1, my kids will ALWAYS outperform your kids no matter how good of a teacher you are and no matter how bad of a teacher I am.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2023, 02:05:26 PM

My kids' HS combined with a much poorer and blacker HS decades ago.  They've done a pretty decent job I think, and spend a ton of money, but it isn't easy.  They have students from trailer parks as well (poor white trash).  It's plurality black, quite a few Hispanics, a fair number of Asians, and minority white.  They have 61% on free/disc school lunches.  The good news is that SOME of the black kids take advantage and excel, not all of course, but I doubt they'd have had much chance in the old nearly all black school district.

Princeton High School in Cincinnati OH - SchoolDigger (https://www.schooldigger.com/go/OH/schools/0446701554/school.aspx)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2023, 02:10:34 PM

I was running today and noted a group of kids running and doing various things, led by a young lady maybe 35 or so.  They were all black.  As I came around the "coach" waved at me and I waved back and stopped the next time around to chat with her.  The kids play in a summer basketball league and were out there getting into shape, she said.  She pointed out a couple, one younger lady maybe 25 who was in fine shape she said played college basketball and was working on her master's, and another kid she pointed out was that lady's son.  She was 23 I'd guess already with a son that looked 10 or so.  Credit to her for going to college of course.  They were a nice group, ran past me a time or three of course.  She told me most were HS seniors from various HS's.  The good news is they were out there exercising when probably they'd be playing on their phones.

I give a lot of credit to kids from challenging circumstances who do well overall, it can't be easy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 02, 2023, 02:12:46 PM

More on education:
The last living WWII veteran that I personally know is a guy who attended Cleveland's Aviation High School.  He was going to be a 1942 graduate but he had enough credits to graduate early so after the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI) he cashed in his credits, graduated in December, 1941, and joined the Navy where he got right into aviation (like he wanted).  

My dad was born in 1940 and even as late as the mid-to-late 1950's when he was in High School, Cleveland's High Schools were much better than what we had out here in the sticks.  They had the aforementioned Aviation High School and two Tech High Schools (East and West) and generally offered things that smaller districts couldn't offer for lack of sufficient size to fill the courses.  

The collapse of the urban high schools was like a snowball rolling downhill.  As they declined the parents who could afford to get out left and those parents tended to have the best students in the schools so their exit hurt the schools more which caused more parents to leave and this feedback loop ultimately resulted in the catastrophically bad urban High Schools that we have in the US today.  

I think that discipline issues are a major factor.  In a typical High School there are going to be some kids who are uninterested in learning and are going to be disruptive.  I assume that @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) is a good teacher who tries hard and as long as the percentage of this type of kid (I'll call them the disruptors) is minimal, he can minimize the damage and still provide a productive learning environment for the other kids.  The problem, I think, is that there is what I'll call a "critical mass" issue.  Once the disruptors reach a certain percentage (which probably varies by teacher) it simply becomes impossible for the teacher to sideline the disruptors and maintain a productive learning environment for the rest of the kids.  

Years ago schools were legally "In Loco Parentis" which meant that they more-or-less had carte-blanche to discipline as they saw fit.  That changed when the Supreme Court decided that kids in schools had a right to due process.  

Example:
My dad drove a School Bus.  He first drove in the early 1960's right after he got out of the Marine Corps.  Then he did other things then started driving again in the late 1970's.  In the early 1960's if a kid caused too much trouble my dad literally had the authority to stop the bus, eject the kid (forcibly if necessary), and continue on the route with the other kids.  

When he started driving again in 1979 things were very different.  If a kid caused a problem my dad had to fill out a report and turn it in to the Transportation Supervisor.  If the Supervisor deemed it necessary, the report was forwarded to the Superintendent who forwarded it to the kids' principal who then scheduled a meeting with the parents, the principal, and the Bus Driver.  By the time this meeting occurred it was weeks after the initial infraction.  There were a few drivers who were considered "OT whores" who would constantly file these reports.  The rest (like my dad) basically ignored all discipline issues that didn't leave any blood.  

The severely diminished authority of the Schools to remove disruptors coupled with the diminished quality of urban HS students due to flight (not just white flight, upper class blacks don't like in crappy urban school districts either) has left the urban schools with way more than a critical mass of disruptive students such that the schools fail to provide a productive learning environment for the kids who would benefit from it.  

IMHO, there needs to be a compromise between the extreme of random bus drivers dropping kids off whenever they saw fit and discipline effectively disappearing from the schools.  In the urban districts the disruptors need to be removed from general pop so that the non-disruptive kids have a chance.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2023, 02:20:06 PM

 Expect a rooftop pool deck and gym, a golf simulator, a clubroom with skyline views, fire pits high off the street, valet dry cleaning, coworking stations, a cybercafe, EV charging stations, and bike storage, plus dedicated dog runs and a pet spa.

Geesh, amenities in new apt buildings these days....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 02, 2023, 02:31:04 PM

One more thought on Education:
When I was a Senior in High School we had a very good basketball team.  Now I need to point out that I went to a suburban and mostly white High School.  Our tallest player was barely taller than me (6-2) and *COULD* dunk but only if nobody was in his way, and he had a running start, and the wind was just right, and etc.  My school's team's version of basketball bore almost no resemblance to the game played in the NBA and even the B1G.  However, they were REALLY good at hitting long range shots so they won a lot of games.  

In Ohio the playoffs for HSBB are seeded so my school's highly seeded team cruised through their first few matchups with ease then got sent to the Akron region with games played at Akron University's James A. Rhodes Arena (JAR).  

Some friends and I drove over to the JAR for the first game and as we were watching pregame warmups we were worried.  The opponent was a City League (read inner City) Akron team and it was abundantly obvious that these kids were vastly more athletic than the guys from our school.  Seriously, they were ALL dunking in warmups.  

So the game started:
My school's team absolutely dominated.  The kids on the other team had literally no idea how to play basketball as a team sport.  They all appeared to be excellent "streetball" players but I honestly don't think they even know what a pick and roll was.  They played as if each of them were individually up against our five guys.  

During the game there was a guy standing at the other team's bench who looked like a coach.  He was dressed like a coach and he looked like a coach and he was standing where the coach should have been standing, but they didn't have a coach.  It was abundantly obvious that nobody had ever huddled up with these guys and said "Ok, here is how you play basketball as a team sport".  They had no idea.  

Fast forward a few days, my school's team played another City League team.  As my friends and I watched warmups we weren't worried at all.  We could see that the opposing team was vastly more athletic than our guys but we'd seen this before so we thought all was well.  

So the game started:
My school's team got drilled.  The opponent had the athleticism AND they had a coach who had taken the time to teach them how to play BB as a team sport.  They weren't just a random group of streetballers who happened to be wearing matching shirts, they were an actual BB team.  

In terms of BB ability there was not a discernable difference between the team that got destroyed by my HS's team and the team that destroyed my HS's team.  The difference was coaching.  One team had a coach and the other didn't.  

The lesson I've taken away from that is that it matters.  The example is BB but it applies to academics.  There are some kids in those crappy urban High Schools who want to learn and who might be able to learn if we give them teachers like the second coach and remove the disruptors.  IMHO, we as a society owe them that chance.  

Finally, I'll add this.  My supposition is that it probably doesn't matter much at the margins.  The young Einsteins in crappy schools will probably eventually get to better schools regardless.  Similarly, there are some who are just beyond help.  My view is that this isn't about the margins it is about the much more numerous middle.  Those kids in the middle that could go either way are the ones where a good teacher, like the good coach in the example above, might just make the difference between a kid headed off to University to get a degree and a kid heading to a different State Institution as an involuntary guest for 25-life.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 02, 2023, 02:47:50 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 02, 2023, 01:48:43 PM

On top of this, there is another issue.  Years ago you used to hear a lot about people being the first in their family to go to or graduate from college.  That has become a lot more rare.  What we now see instead is that the bulk of kids fit into one of two boxes:

• Two married parents, both college educated. 
• Single mother with a HS Diploma (at best) and absent (or outright unknown) father. 

Worse, this sorting has been going on long enough that it is now multi-generational such that most of the kids in group #1, in addition to having two college educated parents, also have four college educated grandparents and frequently college educated aunts and uncles as well.  Meanwhile the kids in group #2 tend to have less grandparent involvement (because the missing dad's parents are also missing) and rarely have college educated grandparents, aunts, or uncles. 

This creates a vast gulf between group #1 and group #2.  For one thing, intelligence is at least partially heritable so the kids in group #1, on average, are smarter than the kids in group #2 to begin with.  They also have smarter and more involved parents, grandparents, aunts, and uncles.  The kids in group #1 have advantages that the kids in group #2 simply do not have. 

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 02, 2023, 02:12:46 PM

The collapse of the urban high schools was like a snowball rolling downhill.  As they declined the parents who could afford to get out left and those parents tended to have the best students in the schools so their exit hurt the schools more which caused more parents to leave and this feedback loop ultimately resulted in the catastrophically bad urban High Schools that we have in the US today. 

Yep. I'm basically a product of both of the things you describe here. My grandpa on my dad's side was a machinist on the South side of Chicago. On my mom's side, my grandpa was basically the equivalent of an industrial engineer, but I'm not sure if that was a "grow into it" job or if he actually went to college. My dad went to college and was the first in his family; his brothers went to Vietnam. My mom went to college. 

They initially lived in Chicago, then moved out to the suburb of Oak Park. Eventually (just after I was born) they moved further out to the very white, very WASP-y, very well off suburb of Wheaton. 

They struggled. We lived in a rented, not owned, home basically my entire childhood. They did alright, but we were most assuredly NOT the well-to-do family in the area. Basically solid middle class, in an upper-middle class neighborhood. 

I think I know why they did it. There's nature and nurture. They wanted their kids to be in an environment where nobody was ever asked "are you going to college?" It would have been a ludicrous question. The question was "where are you going to college?" They know that we're all partially products of our environment, so they wanted to set us up in the best environment they could. 

I'm sure my life would have been a lot different if I'd grown up in the neighborhood around 61st and Pulaski where my dad did. Which isn't to say I wouldn't have gone to college or been successful, but that SO many differences in my upbringing would have made me a different person than who I am today. 

Of course, what that means is that if we're partially products of our environment, and we self-segregate those environments based on class, then you end up with a self-fulfilling prophecy where the bad environments are nearly impossible to get out of and be successful, and the good environments produces "failures" who probably still end up doing well enough. And they perpetuate themselves generation by generation. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2023, 04:06:31 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 02, 2023, 11:21:17 AM

Now that I've agreed with @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) , I'll disagree with him.  He commented about poorer districts needing more money.  I worked in lots of school districts.  The poor area urban districts have LOTS of money.  Granted, they waste most of it, but they aren't lacking for funds.  On a per student basis, the urban districts spend LOTS of money at least close to as much as the rich suburban districts.  The reason is two things:

• Most states have some sort of "Robin Hood" provision as @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) described for Texas. 
• Many federal grants are based to one degree or another on percentage of students or number of students on the free lunch program which effectively gives the poorer districts TONS of federal money. 

You're not wrong, BUT nearly every cent of additional funding poor districts get is attached to a specific use.  Obviously, this makes sense, as you don't want to give them a blank check to spend on whatever they want.  BUT it also acts as a big restrictor plate in terms of needing money for something important that a district needs, but they're not allowed to use monies that are earmarked for other things.
.
The root of my suggestion is simply that if rich districts get more money and poor districts get less, you're obviously just widening the already massive gap.  The math of using local taxes only leads to the problem worsening.  This is partly how you have multi-generational slums.  You look up the paperwork on arrests and crimes in Baltimore from the 70s and you compare them to now - it's all the same crimes being committed in all the same areas.  Nothing has changed.  How could it?  
.
Add to that - better, nicer areas tend to get better teachers, parents who give a damn, etc and the outcomes are obvious.  And like the same areas having the same crime problems over decades, you have families who go to the best schools, end up at Ivy League schools, and get the top careers.  Just as the snowball goes down for the poor, the snowball flies up the mountain for the rich.  
.
Your main point is the truth - just throwing money at it isn't the fix.  But the argument that evening out tax funding is one for fairness.  Equality (gasp).  A simple attempt to merely halt the widening gap, not close it fully.  Closing it fully would take decades of wholesale paradigm shifts in schooling, personal relationships, and expectations.
It's a massive correction that may never actually happen.  But stopping the widening gap is reasonable and doable.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 02, 2023, 04:24:48 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2023, 04:06:31 PM

The root of my suggestion is simply that if rich districts get more money and poor districts get less, you're obviously just widening the already massive gap.  

Is that the case, though? 

I didn't end up posting it, but on Wednesday I was going to respond to one of your posts with some digging I did on per-student spending here in SoCal. 

Problem is that it's hard to do as an outsider, even though I can download spending that's actually got total expenditure and even in per-ADA (average daily attendance, a proxy for student population) breakout. But "spending" may include TONS of things that aren't actual instruction, so it's hard.

But either way, I filtered it to Unified school districts and then further filtered for districts spending >$100M annually to try to break out some of the outliers. 

Los Angeles Unified was spending a little over $23,000 per-ADA. Where my kids go to school (expensive Orange County) was about $14,000 per-ADA. Other OC districts such as Irvine (which is a HIGHLY desirable district to live in / send your kids) was only a little over $13K. Some of the other places that you'd think would be poorer (Oakland, for example) were up there near LAUSD for spending. 

Again, maybe not all of this is spent on students. Maybe these districts have larger overhanging retirement / pension spending that's included. I don't know. But there certainly wasn't a correlation I could find between how rich the people were / how high the home values are in these areas and the spending. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2023, 04:30:58 PM

The part you bolded was just about local tax monies, not overall.  As I said in my post, the other monies coming in are all separated into different uses.  
Per-pupil spending is a very vague measure in this respect.  
If 80% of your students walk to school, a big transportation pool of money isn't super meaningful.  If you get a big grant for SPED students, that's great for them, but they may only be 3% of your school's population.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2023, 04:31:49 PM

The tax money thing also isn't just about the school funding, it's about everything.
If your kid has to walk down a dirty alley filled with trash cans and used needles, past a dozen stray cats, a homeless guy sleeping in the corner, and big-scary dogs barking at them, they might enter the school with a different mindset than the one who walked past grassy, manicured sidewalks, along a pond with a fountain.
It's all connected.  

All of that being said, without families that give a damn (or are able to) and quality teachers in poor districts, nothing will change.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2023, 04:48:58 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 02, 2023, 02:12:46 PM

I think that discipline issues are a major factor.  In a typical High School there are going to be some kids who are uninterested in learning and are going to be disruptive.  I assume that @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) is a good teacher who tries hard and as long as the percentage of this type of kid (I'll call them the disruptors) is minimal, he can minimize the damage and still provide a productive learning environment for the other kids.  The problem, I think, is that there is what I'll call a "critical mass" issue.  Once the disruptors reach a certain percentage (which probably varies by teacher) it simply becomes impossible for the teacher to sideline the disruptors and maintain a productive learning environment for the rest of the kids. 

Yeah, in my "if I was in charge" rants, I'd want to devise a study in which each student was observed and given an attention rating.
You can have 30-40 focused students and still be very productive, as long as there's no "disruptors."  That's actually what one school is our district is:  they assess students academically and socially to allow them in.  Unsurprisingly, despite larger class sizes, that school always performs better than any of the others (and usually, by far).
So the quiet, focused students wouldn't be counted as 1 each, they'd be 0.3 or something of a student.  Big-time disruptive students would be 2.0 or 3.3 or something like that.
All classes would ~30.0 "students" or so, but using this system.  So you'd have some classes full of engaged students numbering 40 or so and other classes may have only 6-8. 
Crazy, I know.  But it would help get more students where we want them to get, academically.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2023, 11:37:59 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 02, 2023, 04:31:49 PM

All of that being said, without families that give a damn (or are able to) and quality teachers in poor districts, nothing will change.

ding ding ding

winner!
it's not about the $$$, only

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 03, 2023, 04:01:51 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 02, 2023, 11:37:59 PM

ding ding ding

winner!
it's not about the $$$, only

I don't think anyone ever suggested that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 03, 2023, 07:20:40 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/2cqD67v.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 03, 2023, 07:33:23 AM

Arizona seeks to avert groundwater disaster   | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/4032174-arizona-seeks-to-avert-groundwater-disaster/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 03, 2023, 07:38:03 AM

I recall water concerns around here a decade or so back.  The area experienced a prolonged drought, the lakes were getting so low a lot of boat docks no longer reached water.  They are full today incidentally, and the problem has abated, at least shorter term.  One thing about using water, it doesn't go away except via evaporation, it's still around, just dirtier.  I don't know the balance of this, I can see open irrigation would mean a lot would evaporate and be "gone".  Sewage treatment can generate potable water, not grey water, but fully potable with some effort.

One thing about this metro area and Dallas and some others is there is no Lake Michigan to the east, the only real barrier to expansion is the mountains to the north and they are 60-80 miles up there.  It's all buildable in other directions, in theory.  And land gets cheaper of course as one gets further out, which contributes to ridiculous traffic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2023, 07:49:59 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 02, 2023, 11:04:55 AM

Since I brought it up, I'll explain my kitchen remodel project and see if any of you have ideas/advice I can use. 

First, I should say, this will not be terribly soon because the previous owner finished the basement which makes it impossible for me to get to the breaker box to run new circuits.  Thus, project #1 is to remove the drywall ceiling in that part of the basement and replace it with a dropped ceiling so that I'll have removable panels and the ability to run wires to the box to add circuits as necessary. 

The solution to this is a subpanel for the kitchen, in the kitchen somewhere. Is your stove and oven electric?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 03, 2023, 08:09:39 AM

or even just on the other side of the wall of the kitchen.  Say the laundry room or garage

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 03, 2023, 04:46:40 PM

Two facts struck me about US education:

We spend more per student K-12 than any other major country.

About 2/3rds of our HS grads go to college, in Europe it's closer to 1/3.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 04, 2023, 08:01:17 AM

1/3rd of our college degrees are meaningful

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 04, 2023, 08:29:40 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 04, 2023, 08:01:17 AM

1/3rd of our college degrees are meaningful

While I agree in one sense, I think a college degree in anything is often a "foot in the door" for many jobs that simply require one, in anything.  Someone told me to be a State Farm salesman you had to have a degree, for example.  My daughter majored in English and French and now is a software engineer.  And some get a degree in say polysci and go to law school and become highly successful injury lawyers making tens of thousands a year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 04, 2023, 08:50:19 AM

I think a college degree in anything is often a "foot in the door" for many jobs that simply require one, in anything.
______________________________________________

foolishness

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 04, 2023, 06:02:44 PM

Well, in an update to the dryer saga, the motor didn't fix it. I thought it did for a bit, and then it wouldn't turn on (although wouldn't trip the breaker). Between toggling the breaker myself (and then the motor turning on--for a moment), I ended up replacing the breaker this morning. No difference. Means that there's probably some gremlin in the control board or power distribution board. The costs of those subcomponents are high enough I don't want to mess with replacing them. 

So a new dryer is on the way, to be delivered Thursday. 

Lasted 7 years. And only because I managed to revive it from the dead 3 other times. Not impressed what those quality metrics...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2023, 06:07:21 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 04, 2023, 06:02:44 PM

Well, in an update to the dryer saga, the motor didn't fix it. I thought it did for a bit, and then it wouldn't turn on (although wouldn't trip the breaker). Between toggling the breaker myself (and then the motor turning on--for a moment), I ended up replacing the breaker this morning. No difference. Means that there's probably some gremlin in the control board or power distribution board. The costs of those subcomponents are high enough I don't want to mess with replacing them.

So a new dryer is on the way, to be delivered Thursday.

Lasted 7 years. And only because I managed to revive it from the dead 3 other times. Not impressed what those quality metrics...

Brand?  ( the broken one )

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 04, 2023, 07:00:10 PM

doesn't matter they're all the same

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 04, 2023, 07:39:36 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 04, 2023, 06:02:44 PM

Well, in an update to the dryer saga, the motor didn't fix it. I thought it did for a bit, and then it wouldn't turn on (although wouldn't trip the breaker). Between toggling the breaker myself (and then the motor turning on--for a moment), I ended up replacing the breaker this morning. No difference. Means that there's probably some gremlin in the control board or power distribution board. The costs of those subcomponents are high enough I don't want to mess with replacing them.

So a new dryer is on the way, to be delivered Thursday.

Lasted 7 years. And only because I managed to revive it from the dead 3 other times. Not impressed what those quality metrics...

shouldve called the man

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 06:39:03 AM

Our dryer "computer" would have cost $420.  The new ones are LGs.  They were $866 each on sale.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 05, 2023, 08:01:11 AM

yup, my dryer "computer" would have cost $420.  The new one was $600

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 08:32:20 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/ob3nLsG.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2023, 10:03:41 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2023, 06:07:21 PM

Brand?  ( the broken one )

Samsung.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on June 05, 2023, 10:06:47 AM

They’re always talking about going green, energy efficiency, but they never consider how much energy it wastes to have engineered obsolescence in appliances that last less than 10 years when they could very easily make them last for 20 or more. You know, like we had from the 1950’s-1990’s. 

  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 10:13:56 AM

No dryer back then had a computer obviously.  They were ultra simple devices one could repair on one's own with a bit of skill.  There wasn't much to break, and whatever might break could be fixed.  Our new set is ultra complicated.  And in the 1950s I think most folks used solar energy to dry their clothes ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 05, 2023, 10:47:58 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2023, 10:03:41 AM

Samsung.

Interesting. We had Samsung for 12 years and as far as I know they never needed anything. We left them in Illinois when we moved and bought Samsung for Florida. No issues.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 05, 2023, 11:02:27 AM

Quote from: Gigem on June 05, 2023, 10:06:47 AM

They’re always talking about going green, energy efficiency, but they never consider how much energy it wastes to have engineered obsolescence in appliances that last less than 10 years when they could very easily make them last for 20 or more. You know, like we had from the 1950’s-1990’s.

Man, imagine trying to get a handle on that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 05, 2023, 11:09:20 AM

as I previously said my maytag has lasted 48 years

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 05, 2023, 11:28:20 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 10:13:56 AM

No dryer back then had a computer obviously.  They were ultra simple devices one could repair on one's own with a bit of skill.  There wasn't much to break, and whatever might break could be fixed.  Our new set is ultra complicated.  And in the 1950s I think most folks used solar energy to dry their clothes ...

mix of solar and wind

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on June 05, 2023, 11:30:46 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 10:13:56 AM

No dryer back then had a computer obviously.  They were ultra simple devices one could repair on one's own with a bit of skill.  There wasn't much to break, and whatever might break could be fixed.  Our new set is ultra complicated.  And in the 1950s I think most folks used solar energy to dry their clothes ...

Bullshit. Any old cheap computer will last 10 years. I’m rocking a Dell laptop from last decade no issues. The computer is just a circuit board or PCM, they’re not complicated. They’re built not to last on purpose. 5-7 years and they know we will throw them away and start over. But they force this extra complication in the name of going green, and it ends up being dirtier because it doesn’t last. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2023, 11:33:11 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 05, 2023, 10:47:58 AM

Interesting. We had Samsung for 12 years and as far as I know they never needed anything. We left them in Illinois when we moved and bought Samsung for Florida. No issues.

Yeah, our washer is Samsung and it's never had an issue. But the dryer has burned out the electric heater element once, had the belt tensioner pulley seize once requiring it and the belt to be replaced, and now whatever this is. All in 7 years. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2023, 11:37:05 AM

Quote from: Gigem on June 05, 2023, 11:30:46 AM

Bullshit. Any old cheap computer will last 10 years. I’m rocking a Dell laptop from last decade no issues. The computer is just a circuit board or PCM, they’re not complicated. They’re built not to last on purpose. 5-7 years and they know we will throw them away and start over. But they force this extra complication in the name of going green, and it ends up being dirtier because it doesn’t last.

I doubt they're "built not to last on purpose".

Rather, I think they're built as cheaply as possible to compete with other brands on price, with the idea that they be reliable "enough" to not get a bad brand reputation. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on June 05, 2023, 11:37:13 AM

I’ve heard from multiple people that Samsung appliances are absolute shit. Especially refrigerators and washing machines. 

If you want quality, buy Speed Queen. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 05, 2023, 11:37:49 AM

Made on a Monday, perhaps.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on June 05, 2023, 11:39:09 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2023, 11:37:05 AM

I doubt they're "built not to last on purpose".

Rather, I think they're built as cheaply as possible to compete with other brands on price, with the idea that they be reliable "enough" to not get a bad brand reputation.

No doubt that plays a part of it, but why is it that almost all brands of appliances across all price points are built to the same shit standards ?  I’d bet the average lifespan of all new appliances is less than 7 years. Sad. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 12:03:48 PM

Quote from: Gigem on June 05, 2023, 11:30:46 AM

Bullshit. Any old cheap computer will last 10 years. I’m rocking a Dell laptop from last decade no issues. The computer is just a circuit board or PCM, they’re not complicated. They’re built not to last on purpose. 5-7 years and they know we will throw them away and start over. But they force this extra complication in the name of going green, and it ends up being dirtier because it doesn’t last.

Different things.  A modern dryer is very complex and has multiple switches, computers, gadgets, things that can go wrong.  Heat is of course one problem for electronics.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 05, 2023, 12:16:44 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2023, 07:49:59 AM

The solution to this is a subpanel for the kitchen, in the kitchen somewhere. Is your stove and oven electric?

I'd need to get to the box to run a subpanel so I have to fix the box access issue regardless. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 05, 2023, 12:18:21 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 04, 2023, 07:00:10 PM

doesn't matter they're all the same

I knew a guy who ran a trucking company and he did a lot of runs out of an appliance factory in NW Ohio. He confirmed this. The boxes coming out of there had all different brand names on them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 05, 2023, 12:24:11 PM

Quote from: Gigem on June 05, 2023, 11:30:46 AM

Bullshit. Any old cheap computer will last 10 years. I’m rocking a Dell laptop from last decade no issues. The computer is just a circuit board or PCM, they’re not complicated. They’re built not to last on purpose. 5-7 years and they know we will throw them away and start over. But they force this extra complication in the name of going green, and it ends up being dirtier because it doesn’t last.

My Dell Intel® Pentium® dual-core processor E5200 is still working.
Delivered for Xmas in 2008

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 05, 2023, 12:25:50 PM

Those Dells are survivors.  I have a Latitude C600 laptop from 2001 that still runs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 05, 2023, 12:27:40 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 04, 2023, 08:01:17 AM

1/3rd of our college degrees are meaningful

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 04, 2023, 08:29:40 AM

While I agree in one sense, I think a college degree in anything is often a "foot in the door" for many jobs that simply require one, in anything.  Someone told me to be a State Farm salesman you had to have a degree, for example.  My daughter majored in English and French and now is a software engineer.  And some get a degree in say polysci and go to law school and become highly successful injury lawyers making tens of thousands a year.

I'm with @FearlessF (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10) on this.

I do agree with @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) at least on an individual level that they are potentially useful to get "in the door" but on a societal level it is an enormous waste of time and productivity to sent 2/3 of HS graduates to college.

There are multiple issues here:
First is lack of appreciation for vocational education. This has long been a pet peeve of mine. A LOT of Americans would be MUCH better off to learn appliance repair (so they could fix @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) 's dryer) or electrical (so they could run my kitchen circuits) or HVAC or auto repair than to learn college prep then sling coffee at Starbucks.

A second issue is that the ridiculous American focus on Graduation Rates has encouraged administrators to dumb things down in order to prop up their all-important graduation rates but this is ridiculous. Way too many kids are given diplomas and pushed out of HS which has made HS diplomas more-or-less meaningless which is why a lot of employers now require college degrees.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 12:35:12 PM

I don't think 2/3rds of college degrees are meaningless.  Some seem that way perhaps, but the graduates tend to find jobs if they wish.  The jobs might have little to do with their college degree.  Our HOA requires the manager to have a degree.  It's a pretty simple job, it pays decently, and the current manage is an idiot in my view.  But she has a degree, in something.  The folks who work at the front desk are a LOT smarter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2023, 12:36:41 PM

Quote from: Gigem on June 05, 2023, 11:39:09 AM

No doubt that plays a part of it, but why is it that almost all brands of appliances across all price points are built to the same shit standards ?  I’d bet the average lifespan of all new appliances is less than 7 years. Sad.

For the same reason that air travel is completely no-frills now with airlines that treat passengers like self-loading cargo. Because everyone looks FIRST at fare cost using online tools where you can see it all head-to-head and most would volunteer to sit out on the wing if it'd save $5 each way. So they do everything they can to take out cost so they can offer a lower fare on an online travel booking site. 

I don't think most consumers have enough knowledge of brand reliability that they make a purchase based on reliability rather than cost. So you get what you get. 

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 12:03:48 PM

Different things.  A modern dryer is very complex and has multiple switches, computers, gadgets, things that can go wrong.  Heat is of course one problem for electronics.

This too. Heat is an absolute killer for electronics. Which makes it a lot harder to make something reliable that's designed to get, well, hot. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 05, 2023, 12:39:55 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 12:35:12 PM

I don't think 2/3rds of college degrees are meaningless.  Some seem that way perhaps, but the graduates tend to find jobs if they wish.  The jobs might have little to do with their college degree.  Our HOA requires the manager to have a degree.  It's a pretty simple job, it pays decently, and the current manage is an idiot in my view.  But she has a degree, in something.  The folks who work at the front desk are a LOT smarter.

makes my point
an idiot was handed a degree
the HOA would be better served hiring someone w/o that degree, who could better do the job

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2023, 12:45:11 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 12:35:12 PM

I don't think 2/3rds of college degrees are meaningless.  Some seem that way perhaps, but the graduates tend to find jobs if they wish.  The jobs might have little to do with their college degree.  Our HOA requires the manager to have a degree.  It's a pretty simple job, it pays decently, and the current manage is an idiot in my view.  But she has a degree, in something.  The folks who work at the front desk are a LOT smarter.

This is where you're having a blind spot, CD...

If "too many" people are getting college degrees, then it becomes easy for an employer to make that a check-box for jobs that really never "required" a college degree. They can put that as a job requirement knowing that it's one more piece of evidence that an employee is marginally responsible b/c they went to school for four more years successfully than someone w/o a degree. 

And because there's an oversupply of degreed candidates, they're not going to find themselves with a negative impact to their talent pool. There's a bunch of graduates out there trying to "find jobs" doing something, even if it has no relationship to what they studied in 4 years of college to earn an unnecessary degree. 

So yes, people with college degrees can find jobs. But if we had a much smaller portion of the population getting degrees, then fewer jobs would require them, and they could get those same jobs w/o spending 4 years and tens (or hundreds) of thousands of dollars for something not really necessary. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 05, 2023, 12:50:02 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 03, 2023, 07:49:59 AM

The solution to this is a subpanel for the kitchen, in the kitchen somewhere. Is your stove and oven electric?

See above but also:
Range is electric but that is 240V so not interfering with anything else.

Also, the kitchen isn't the only place I need additional circuits. Actually it isn't even the most critical. I don't have any current electrical issues in the kitchen. When I remodel I want to keep it that way by adding a few new 20A circuits rather than tapping into the existing 15A circuits.

My most immediate electrical issue is that I installed an exhaust fan in the upstairs bathroom but I can't use the heat feature unless the other big draws on that circuit are all shut down.

Background:
My master bath did not have an exhaust fan when we bought the house. It had a light so I checked ad discovered that the light was wired with 12GA wire. I therefore assumed it was on as 20A circuit.

In retrospect it was a mistake to make that assumption. Legally you are NOT permitted to run 12GA downstream of 14GA but that is what existed in my house. It is 14GA from breaker box to switch then 12GA from switch to light*.

I put in a fancy exhaust fan with four features:

• Fan
• Light
• Nightlight
• Heat

Wife wanted this because she is perpetually cold.  The problem is that this is all on a 15A circuit that also powers the rest of the bathroom and half of the bedroom.

The heat will run on a 15A breaker, IIRC it is a 1,500 watt heater so that uses 12.5 Amps (1,500/120).  The problem is that only leaves 2.5 Amps for everything else on the circuit. That is NOT enough.


This is fairly easy to solve. I'm going to replace the existing breaker with a tandem 15A breaker and put the heat alone on one half leaving everything else on the other.

The problem is that I can't get there to run the wire!

*The preexisting light was an add on by a previous owner so I assume that they just didn't know the difference between 12GA and 14GA.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 12:53:43 PM

I still don't think 2/3rds of college degrees are useless.  If you said too many are, I'd agree.  

The 10 Most Popular College Majors | BestColleges (https://www.bestcolleges.com/blog/most-popular-college-majors/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on June 05, 2023, 01:15:55 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 12:03:48 PM

Different things.  A modern dryer is very complex and has multiple switches, computers, gadgets, things that can go wrong.  Heat is of course one problem for electronics.

Ah ha, therein lies the rub.  It doesn't really need all those extra bellz and whistles.  Some of it is for energy efficiency *cough*, and some of it is just because they know how to design them not to last.  

Really, is it all that complicated to run air over a heating element, tumble a drum with clothes in it, out a vent?  No.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2023, 01:18:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 12:53:43 PM

I still don't think 2/3rds of college degrees are useless.  If you said too many are, I'd agree. 

The 10 Most Popular College Majors | BestColleges (https://www.bestcolleges.com/blog/most-popular-college-majors/)

"Useless" may not be the best term. And you're right, 2/3 is probably WAY too high of a number. But I think we have to ask "why is a student going to college, and is going to college necessary for their future life beyond degree requirements of employers?"

How many students would be better served with four years of job experience and income rather than 4 years of college and a lot of debt to pay off? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 01:26:10 PM

Quote from: Gigem on June 05, 2023, 01:15:55 PM

Ah ha, therein lies the rub.  It doesn't really need all those extra bellz and whistles.  Some of it is for energy efficiency *cough*, and some of it is just because they know how to design them not to last. 

Really, is it all that complicated to run air over a heating element, tumble a drum with clothes in it, out a vent?  No. 

Sure, my 1968 Nova had no computer of course, no power anything, an AM radio, and a heater.  There wasn't much to break.  My wife's new dryer looks more like a space ship.  


(https://i.imgur.com/ViSrga2.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 01:29:00 PM

I think for some employers a college degree means a person finished a project, they were able to get out of bed and apply some level of effort, and finished.  And yes, I'd guess said employer often would do a better job starting them four years earlier at "selling insurance" and  training them for that.

One big difference between us and Europe is how they really specialize in their degree field, they don't take "history" if they are chem majors.  And fewer go to college there, so those who do are better prepared and more selected.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 05, 2023, 01:31:35 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2023, 12:36:41 PM

This too. Heat is an absolute killer for electronics. Which makes it a lot harder to make something reliable that's designed to get, well, hot.

only supposed to get hot inside the drum

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 05, 2023, 01:38:02 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2023, 01:18:08 PM

"Useless" may not be the best term. And you're right, 2/3 is probably WAY too high of a number. But I think we have to ask "why is a student going to college, and is going to college necessary for their future life beyond degree requirements of employers?"

How many students would be better served with four years of job experience and income rather than 4 years of college and a lot of debt to pay off?

Apprenticeships are becoming more and more popular. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2023, 01:39:58 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 05, 2023, 01:31:35 PM

only supposed to get hot inside the drum

How does that work? As an electrical engineer, I'm going to advise against locating your electric heater element in the drum where it'll be exposed to constant water lol... In this dryer the heat element is underneath (and slightly to the side) of the drum, on the opposite side from the motor and power distribution circuit boards, so they're attempting to keep it as far away from the things that would be most hurt. 

But heat radiates. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 05, 2023, 01:42:41 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2023, 01:18:08 PM

"Useless" may not be the best term. And you're right, 2/3 is probably WAY too high of a number. But I think we have to ask "why is a student going to college, and is going to college necessary for their future life beyond degree requirements of employers?"

How many students would be better served with four years of job experience and income rather than 4 years of college and a lot of debt to pay off?

To that last part, I suppose it depends the job. Into a lesser extent the person.

I think college has more and more become a racket. And the gap years element does have value, but not what we pay for it. Granted, you then would like other gap years mechanisms, which we have some of, but maybe not enough.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 01:50:34 PM

I recall neighbors asking me where my son was going to college, not whether, but where.  It was an expectation.  I told one lady he was spending the summer at some French beach resort that had a good exercise program, riflry, climbing, swimming, and he would get paid for it.

It's what most kids figure they should do rather than work.  I had a gf in HS who was pretty smart and wasn't interested in college, she had a job as a telephone operator and was just sticking with that.  A lot of girls were going for that MRS. degree.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2023, 01:54:25 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 05, 2023, 01:42:41 PM

To that last part, I suppose it depends the job. Into a lesser extent the person.

Yes, as some jobs are much less amenable to "on the job training" than others. Engineering, medicine, law, the hard sciences (and even the soft ones*), etc. Some things you have to have studied the prerequisite material to be able to apply it in practice.

I'd say there are a LOT of jobs that employers are requiring degrees for, however, that actually don't really need them. 

 * Re: the soft sciences, it's along the idea that if you want a job in the social sciences, actually studying it in college is a leg up. But if you grow up to be an office manager, getting a sociology degree is probably a lot less relevant. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 05, 2023, 01:55:06 PM

If you don't understand the need for a college degree, go try finding a decent-paying career where you aren't working with your hands. 

Then you'll go to the nearest college and enroll.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 05, 2023, 01:55:37 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2023, 01:54:25 PM

I'd say there are a LOT of jobs that employers are requiring degrees for, however, that actually don't really need them.

And this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 01:57:05 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 05, 2023, 01:55:06 PM

If you don't understand the need for a college degree, go try finding a decent-paying career where you aren't working with your hands. 

Then you'll go to the nearest college and enroll.

Is someone here questioning the need for a college degree?  I could have missed it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 05, 2023, 02:14:01 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 01:57:05 PM

Is someone here questioning the need for a college degree?  I could have missed it.

Yes. 

I'm saying that there are jobs out there that require a college degree but that the degree is not actually necessary to perform the job. Which by doing so saddles a student with 4 years of wasted earnings potential (and likely lots of debt) in order to get that unnecessary degree, to get a job where the degree is irrelevant. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 05, 2023, 02:22:21 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 05, 2023, 01:55:06 PM

If you don't understand the need for a college degree, go try finding a decent-paying career where you aren't working with your hands. 

Then you'll go to the nearest college and enroll.

There is nothing wrong with working with your hands. We need more of those people. Electricians. Plumbers. Welders. And on and on.

You don't need a fine arts degree to do those jobs. A certificate or AAS would do it - or simply OTJ training.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 02:23:01 PM

I think we agree that some/many jobs don't really require a college degree in order for the job to be performed well.  That isn't the same as claiming a college degree is not needed as a broad generalization.  I suspect "we" are in basic agreement and quibbling over terminology (my bad).

You shouldn't need a college degree to sell insurance, or be an HOA manager.  But in today's world in the US, you do often as not.

Too many of us go to college than would be ideal.

Many college degrees are not useful (beyond getting your foot in the door).

College have become a racket.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 05, 2023, 02:31:25 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 05, 2023, 02:22:21 PM

There is nothing wrong with working with your hands. We need more of those people. Electricians. Plumbers. Welders. And on and on.

You don't need a fine arts degree to do those jobs. A certificate or AAS would do it - or simply OTJ training.

Of course there's nothing wrong with it, but it's not for everyone.
There's a LARGE subset of people who don't just fall into 'getting a college degree' or 'works with their hands.'

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 05, 2023, 02:39:26 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 02:23:01 PM

I think we agree that some/many jobs don't really require a college degree in order for the job to be performed well.  That isn't the same as claiming a college degree is not needed as a broad generalization.  I suspect "we" are in basic agreement and quibbling over terminology (my bad).

You shouldn't need a college degree to sell insurance, or be an HOA manager.  But in today's world in the US, you do often as not.

Too many of us go to college than would be ideal.

Many college degrees are not useful (beyond getting your foot in the door).

College have become a racket.

It's becoming less and less required in today's world.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 05, 2023, 03:07:49 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 05, 2023, 02:39:26 PM

It's becoming less and less required in today's world.

It’s a good shift.

I will be interested to see if we develop better mechanisms to connect young people to jobs and train them and more efficient ways.

One issues is that many 18-year-olds are useless morons. And when they get put in zero-structure situations, the output is not what you would like. For all of its drawbacks and its expenses, college does provide a space for a lot of people to fail in ways that help them down the line.

Beyond apprenticeships and such, probably more military participation and a greater social acceptance of living at home past 20 would be helpful.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 03:11:57 PM

I was a useless 18 year old moron, I'm often surprised I got through.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 03:28:48 PM

Billy Joel - Piano Man (Official HD Video) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEPV4kolz0)

Dude looks young.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 05, 2023, 03:34:06 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 05, 2023, 03:07:49 PM

It’s a good shift.

I will be interested to see if we develop better mechanisms to connect young people to jobs and train them and more efficient ways.

One issues is that many 18-year-olds are useless morons. And when they get put in zero-structure situations, the output is not what you would like. For all of its drawbacks and its expenses, college does provide a space for a lot of people to fail in ways that help them down the line.

Beyond apprenticeships and such, probably more military participation and a greater social acceptance of living at home past 20 would be helpful.

I helped develop this program.


Apprenticeship Programs: Earn and Learn: Harper College (https://www.harpercollege.edu/apprenticeship/index.php)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 05, 2023, 04:03:49 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 05, 2023, 02:22:21 PM

There is nothing wrong with working with your hands. We need more of those people. Electricians. Plumbers. Welders. And on and on.

Agreed, and in addition to the fact that we need electricians, plumbers, welders, etc, those are chronically undersupplied.

Compare job prospects of trained electricians/plumbers/welders to those of people with degrees in sociology/art history/ploysci.

My view is that the concept of sending everyone* derives, I think, from the Lake Wobegon effect. In Garrison Keillor's fictional Lake Wobegon, Minnesota famously, "all the children are above average".

That may work in fiction but here in reality precisely half of the children are above average and the other half are . . . not.

My theory is that a college degree is probably only worthwhile for roughly the smartest quarter of people. Table:
[th][color=var(--wp--preset--color--vivid-purple)]IQ[/b][/font][/size][/color][/th]
[th][color=var(--wp--preset--color--vivid-purple)]Description[/b][/b][/color][/th]
[th][color=var(--wp--preset--color--vivid-purple)]% of Population[/b][/font][/size][/color][/th]


[th]130+[/th]

Very superior	2.2%

[th]120–129[/th]

Superior	6.7%

[th]110–119[/th]

High average	16.1%

[th]90–109[/th]

Average	50%

[th]80–89[/th]

Low average	16.1%

[th]70–79[/th]

Borderline	6.7%

[th]69 and below[/th]

Extremely low

2.2%

75th percentile corresponds to an iq of 110 (2.2+6.7×16.1=25).

My view:

• 130+, Very Superior, roughly the smartest of a randomly selected 50 people:  These folks should pretty much all go to not only college but grad school as well.
• 120-129, Superior, roughly the rest of the smartest one-out-of-ten: These should definitely go to college and some should pursue grad school.
• 110-119, High Average, roughly the rest of the smartest one-in-four: A college degree is generally going to be worthwhile for these folks but there are exceptions. Also, if they choose to "work with their hands" they'll generally be among the smartest in their field which will typically mean that they rapidly climb to become supervisors and end up as productive and as well paid as their college-educated peers.
• 100-109 (I've split average), above average, the rest of the smartest half: These folks are generally NOT well served by going to college. Many drop out or flunk out and those that succeed generally have to give up their dreams of becoming engineers and change their major to something less challenging in order to complete a degree.
• 90-100, below average, and everyone below here: College is almost always a waste of time for these folks. However at least some are still capable of learning a trade and finding gainful employment.

*I realize that we don't actually send "everyone" to college but the 2/3 - 3/4 that we do send is, IMHO much closer to everyone than it is to an appropriate number.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 05, 2023, 05:12:25 PM

I've never considered college and intelligence linked at all.  College = willingness to pay money and do the work.  Especially if you're studying something that interests you, anything challenging will be fun.
.
That being said, the smarter you are (up to a certain level), the more money you may make (if that's your priority).  But for maximized happiness, I think an IQ of 90-105 is probably best. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 05, 2023, 05:39:47 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 05, 2023, 05:12:25 PM

I've never considered college and intelligence linked at all.  

me either

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 05, 2023, 05:41:49 PM

"I prefer tongue-tied knowledge to ignorant loquacity."

Marcus Tullius Cicero

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 05:42:47 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 05, 2023, 05:12:25 PM

I've never considered college and intelligence linked at all.  

No correlation whatsoever?


The IQ of the average college student. (apa.org)


The IQ's reported for college and university student samples in a number of studies are compared to those obtained for 732 college freshmen at San Jose State College. It is suggested that "the most nearly correct IQ value" of the average college student is 120 and that of the average college freshman is 116. (https://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2Fh0040731)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 05, 2023, 05:43:00 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 05, 2023, 05:12:25 PM

I've never considered college and intelligence linked at all.  College = willingness to pay money and do the work.  Especially if you're studying something that interests you, anything challenging will be fun.
.

looking back on all the stupid things I did I can testify to that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 05:44:09 PM

The most important graph in educational psychology – Russell T. Warne (russellwarne.com) (https://russellwarne.com/2020/09/07/the-most-important-graph-in-educational-psychology/)

Therefore, the average IQ for a person who earned an education degree was about 108. In the social sciences, it was 112. In physical sciences and engineering, the average IQ is about 119. Because most of these students self-selected into college majors, it seems that some areas of study are attracting very smart students and others . . . are not so much.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 05, 2023, 05:46:04 PM

The trades and appenticeships are good. Make the money when you can, but you have to have an exit strategy. At some point your body will not be able to do the work that the trades need.

My dad handled grain for 40+ years for Pillsbury and General Mills. One of the things he was adamant about was that we were going to get our educations, and not have to do hard manual labor like he did.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 05:46:18 PM

Experts have worked out which majors have the highest IQ (thetab.com) (https://thetab.com/us/2017/04/10/which-major-has-highest-iq-64811)

(https://i.imgur.com/CKqEfOF.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 05, 2023, 05:48:13 PM

my brother is in education

he understands better than most about the printing of degrees for profit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 05, 2023, 06:38:45 PM

He's a counterfeiter?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 05, 2023, 06:55:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 05:46:18 PM

Experts have worked out which majors have the highest IQ (thetab.com) (https://thetab.com/us/2017/04/10/which-major-has-highest-iq-64811)

(https://i.imgur.com/CKqEfOF.jpg)
Bullshit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 05, 2023, 06:57:11 PM

hey, they are "experts"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 08:03:07 PM

https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/midtown-rockefeller-development-images-tallest-new-building-ages

Fun watching this one

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 06, 2023, 06:17:14 AM

I have no reason to doubt the IQ data (except perhaps one doesn't like the results).  Maybe they are wrong and others can provide better data.

It's logical that there is SOME selection basis for intelligence in going to college, the very very low end of the band is largely not going.  That alone would shift matters a point or three.  The very high band is almost all going.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 06, 2023, 08:16:18 AM

it's a list and could easily go in the ranking thread
there are good reasons to doubt any list

obviously the first step is measuring the IQ
that can be tricky in itself

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 06, 2023, 08:41:41 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 12:35:12 PM

I don't think 2/3rds of college degrees are meaningless.  Some seem that way perhaps, but the graduates tend to find jobs if they wish.  The jobs might have little to do with their college degree.  Our HOA requires the manager to have a degree.  It's a pretty simple job, it pays decently, and the current manage is an idiot in my view.  But she has a degree, in something.  The folks who work at the front desk are a LOT smarter.

I believe that you just made Medina's point with this post.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 06, 2023, 11:22:33 AM

Atlanta City Council approves funding for so-called ‘Cop City’ project | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/4036498-atlanta-city-council-approves-funding-for-so-called-cop-city-project/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 06, 2023, 11:55:00 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 05:46:18 PM

Experts have worked out which majors have the highest IQ (thetab.com) (https://thetab.com/us/2017/04/10/which-major-has-highest-iq-64811)

(https://i.imgur.com/CKqEfOF.jpg)

Some things that jump out to me:

Economics:
This one is weird.  On the table it is tied for 5th highest behind only Physics, Mathematics, Philosophy, and Materials Engineering.  I don't know how other schools handle it, but at Ohio State (at least ~30 years ago when I was there), there were three different ways to major in Economics:

• BS:  They offered a Bachelor of Science with a major in Economics.  This was BY FAR the toughest one and involved a LOT of math which is probably why, on this table, it is up near math.  
• BA:  They offered a Bachelor of Arts with a major in Economics.  This was BY FAR the easiest one and involved a lot less math.  It was more of a "generic" degree with a concentration in Economics.  
• BSBA:  All Business degrees were Bachelor of Science in Business Administration so this was just a BSBA with a major in Economics.  This one fits between the other two on the intellectual difficulty scale and was obviously much more business-focused than the other two.  

Business degrees generally:
On the table there are five business-type majors:

• 125 Business and Finance
• 124 Computer and Information Science - I listed this as business because when I was at tOSU this was combined with Accounting, the major was "Accounting and Management Information Systems".  
• 114 Business
• 111 Business Admin and Management
• 110 Accounting

When I was at Ohio State I triple majored in:

• Accounting and Management Information Systems
• Finance
• Real Estate

Real Estate is somewhat of a niche thing so it isn't on the table, we can ignore that one.  My other two were, per this table, the highest and lowest IQ business majors.  What I find odd is that Accounting is the lowest.  My observation was the opposite.  I knew plenty of Finance majors who had started out Accounting and dropped "down" because Accounting was too hard, I didn't know anyone the other way around.  Not that Finance was all that easy, just that my guess would have been more like:

• Accounting/MIS
• Finance
• Admin
• Business

Ohio State also had another oddity that I did not discover until my final quarter (fall, 1997):
I had decided to stay an extra quarter to get the third major (and another season of football tickets).  I was done with the requirements for my Accounting and Finance majors and just needed a few classes to add the Real Estate major so I was taking all Real Estate classes (and a fairly light load basically enjoying a final quarter, going to football games, and getting a third major).  

Anyway, one of my classes was in Real Estate Appraisals.  It was offered only at night because the instructor was an Appraiser who came in a couple evenings a week to teach this class.  The first day he had everyone in class introduce themselves (name, major).  The Real Estate major in the Business College was EXTREMELY small, there were only maybe a dozen of us TOTAL and only a few were in this class but the class was PACKED.  As people introduced themselves only a few of us were Business/Real Estate majors.  The rest were all "Personal Finance" Majors.  None of us (the business majors) had ever heard of that so finally someone asked what it was and one of them answered that it was an Arts major for people who couldn't get into the Business College.  Several of the others objected to that definition but, as we learned, that is exactly what it was.  

In the class we had income property appraisals where the main consideration was the value of the income stream that the property produced.  For those of us from the business college these were EXTREMLY simple problems.  The Personal Finance majors (almost without exception) could not understand the concept and we (the business majors) tried again and again to explain it to them.  

My lesson from this:  NEVER TRUST A STOCK BROKER:
The majority of these Personal Finance majors planned to become stockbrokers because that is what you do with a BA in Personal Finance.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 06, 2023, 11:59:28 AM

Philosophy - 129

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 06, 2023, 12:05:53 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 06, 2023, 11:59:28 AM

Philosophy - 129

that says it all about this list

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 06, 2023, 12:21:34 PM

well, to be fair, I didn't take any upper level Philosophy course

I never knew anyone that did either

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 06, 2023, 12:26:05 PM

https://youtu.be/LfduUFF_i1A

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 06, 2023, 12:27:34 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 06, 2023, 12:21:34 PM

well, to be fair, I didn't take any upper level Philosophy course

I never knew anyone that did either

I minored in philosophy. I was already interested in it, and thought "it's in the school of Liberal Arts, so maybe it'd be a good place to meet girls." Nope. More of a sausage fest than electrical engineering. 

That said, philosophy is a very SMALL field full of extreme nerds who like to think for thinking's sake. 

Not shocked to see it aligned with a high IQ. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on June 06, 2023, 12:39:20 PM

UFO crash retrievals going back to the early 1900s, government cover-up, non-human intelligences (plural) and bodies.  The whistle blower sounds about as credible as one can be.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/military-whistleblower-public-claims-us-secret-ufo-retrieval-program-terrestrial-arms-race (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/military-whistleblower-public-claims-us-secret-ufo-retrieval-program-terrestrial-arms-race)



And just recently Sean Kirkpatrick of the new All-Domain Anomaly Resolution office at the Pentagon testified to Congress that there was "no credible evidence."


https://www.space.com/pentagon-aaro-ufo-hearing-april-2023 (https://www.space.com/pentagon-aaro-ufo-hearing-april-2023)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on June 06, 2023, 02:45:36 PM

I actually have a BSBA in Economics from Ohio State. Not that I every really used it as through a series of events through the years I ended up an accountant/CPA. 

Also I skewed the average IQ for Economic majors a fair bit higher, but then I started out as a Physics major and then to Mechanical Engineering before finally getting my BSBA.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 06, 2023, 09:34:59 PM

just one example why the list might be flawed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 06, 2023, 10:03:16 PM

I started out in philosophy.  If it was a  normal, common job to simply be a philosopher, I would have stayed in it. 
I know people shit on philosophers, but instead of the reason being that it lacks utility, I just believe it's been hijacked by a tangent:  language.
As in philosophy has lost acclaim because those in the field have been bickering about language for the last 70 years.
.
Screw them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 06, 2023, 10:10:36 PM

Hmmm, I think I changed majors once and then added a second? Technically the first major I declared was accounting. But that wasn’t really a switch.

I had a family member who transferred once and switched twice. That person spent eight years in college, but it was back in the day, so you could work a 20 hour a week job that paid for an apartment tuition and living expenses.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 06, 2023, 10:33:26 PM

I'm sure there's a list or ranking about changing majors

almost similar to the transfer portal

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2023, 04:55:19 AM

I recall starting Org Chem with folks sitting in the aisles, nearly everyone was "premed".  After the first test, it cleared out.  Over the year the class went from over 180 to 30-35.  Many of the rest went to business school or other.  That apparently was a big arbiter on med school entrance.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2023, 05:09:05 AM

Watch And Listen As NASCAR Chevy Camaro Brutalizes Ear Drums At Le Mans (motor1.com) (https://www.motor1.com/news/670867/watch-nascar-chevy-camaro-brutalize-ear-drums-le-mans/?fbclid=IwAR2UOCtNE0t2sKm8dJxhi2FFPNCQjZumzj-rHaNapUUYvnzdJ0psKaVkS84)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 07, 2023, 07:44:07 AM

I never changed majors.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 07, 2023, 07:59:22 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 07, 2023, 07:44:07 AM

I never changed majors.

Yeah, but you were working as an engineer when you were like 13.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 07, 2023, 08:09:38 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 07, 2023, 07:59:22 AM

Yeah, but you were working as an engineer when you were like 13.

C'mon.

17.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 08, 2023, 07:52:25 AM

The U.S. Marine Corps says the development of a new family of relatively low-cost, long-range air-launched loitering munitions, or kamikaze drones, is "critical" to its new expeditionary and distributed concepts of operations. These future Long-Range Attack Munitions, or LRAMs, would be capable of operating in fully-networks swarms and reaching target areas more than a hundred miles away after launch from Marine Corps F-35B Joint Strike Fighters, MV-22B Osprey tilt-rotors, various types of helicopters, or even KC-130J Hercules tanker/transport planes.

The Marine Corps provided new details about the LRAM effort at a media roundtable last Friday. The kinds of drones would offer Marines a valuable additional means of striking enemy forces and just locating and tracking threats, all at extended ranges. Depending on their exact configuration, they could perform other tasks, including electronic warfare jamming. Being able to operate in a swarm presents its own advantages, including when it comes to overwhelming enemy air defenses.


The press briefing that touched on LRAM came ahead of today's release of the latest public update on the service's progress in refining and implementing its new, over-arching force restructuring and modernization plans, known collectively as Force Design 2030. Force Design 2030 is heavily focused on ensuring the Marine Corps has the necessary force structure and assets to succeed in what it calls Expeditionary Advance Base Operations (EABO), as well as in support of other joint service distributed concepts of operations.


https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/marines-betting-big-on-critical-air-launched-swarming-drones (https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/marines-betting-big-on-critical-air-launched-swarming-drones)

(https://www.thedrive.com/uploads/2023/06/05/marine-corps-air-launched-drone-swarms.jpg?auto=webp&crop=16%3A9&auto=webp&optimize=high&quality=70&width=1440)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 08, 2023, 11:39:03 AM

What did the city leaders think was gonna happen?

Top hotel chain abandons San Francisco over city's "clouded" future (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/top-hotel-chain-leaves-san-francisco-over-city-s-clouded-future/ar-AA1cfXjk?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=d22c670430394cd2b4fd99e6139dcf2f&ei=33)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 08, 2023, 12:51:32 PM

Meanwhile, the US is asleep at the wheel.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/cuba-to-host-secret-chinese-spy-base-focusing-on-u-s-b2fed0e0?st=yz4743s7xybfgah&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 08, 2023, 01:30:11 PM

Jack Swarbrick will step down as Notre Dame’s athletic director.

Sports Illustrated’s Pat Forde was first to share that news on Thursday morning. Swarbrick is expected to step down from his role in the first quarter of 2024.

Notre Dame has already identified Swarbrick’s successor: NBC Sports Group chairman Pete Bevacqua.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 08, 2023, 01:33:18 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 08, 2023, 01:30:11 PM

Jack Swarbrick will step down as Notre Dame’s athletic director.

Sports Illustrated’s Pat Forde was first to share that news on Thursday morning. Swarbrick is expected to step down from his role in the first quarter of 2024.

Notre Dame has already identified Swarbrick’s successor: NBC Sports Group chairman Pete Bevacqua.

Notre Dame to B1G is imminent, then...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 08, 2023, 01:43:13 PM

Yep.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 08, 2023, 02:29:09 PM

I'm ok with that

more $$$ for UNL and more equality with the SEC for the B1G

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 08, 2023, 06:05:12 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 08, 2023, 07:52:25 AM

The U.S. Marine Corps says the development of a new family of relatively low-cost, long-range air-launched loitering munitions, or kamikaze drones, is "critical" to its new expeditionary and distributed concepts of operations. These future Long-Range Attack Munitions, or LRAMs, would be capable of operating in fully-networks swarms and reaching target areas more than a hundred miles away after launch from Marine Corps F-35B Joint Strike Fighters, MV-22B Osprey tilt-rotors, various types of helicopters, or even KC-130J Hercules tanker/transport planes.

The Marine Corps provided new details about the LRAM effort at a media roundtable last Friday. The kinds of drones would offer Marines a valuable additional means of striking enemy forces and just locating and tracking threats, all at extended ranges. Depending on their exact configuration, they could perform other tasks, including electronic warfare jamming. Being able to operate in a swarm presents its own advantages, including when it comes to overwhelming enemy air defenses.


The press briefing that touched on LRAM came ahead of today's release of the latest public update on the service's progress in refining and implementing its new, over-arching force restructuring and modernization plans, known collectively as Force Design 2030. Force Design 2030 is heavily focused on ensuring the Marine Corps has the necessary force structure and assets to succeed in what it calls Expeditionary Advance Base Operations (EABO), as well as in support of other joint service distributed concepts of operations.


https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/marines-betting-big-on-critical-air-launched-swarming-drones (https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/marines-betting-big-on-critical-air-launched-swarming-drones)

(https://www.thedrive.com/uploads/2023/06/05/marine-corps-air-launched-drone-swarms.jpg?auto=webp&crop=16%3A9&auto=webp&optimize=high&quality=70&width=1440)

So in the middle east, would it be a........desert swarm??

(https://i.imgur.com/iDXS3iK.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 09, 2023, 09:42:50 AM

My wife has been wanting an electric fireplace.  I don't like'em.  I held off, but our tenth anniversary is coming up, so I ordered one she picked out.  OK fine, whatever.  Turns out "some assembly" required is not the full story.  I'm waiting on our electrician to come and hopefully install it, an electrical outlet has to be moved.  It's heavy, I can lift it but I certainly can't hold it up against the wall to secure it.

She usually gets what she wants, I hope she doesn't turn on the heat in summer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 09, 2023, 09:45:11 AM

I don't even like gas fireplaces

real wood is the only way to go

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 09, 2023, 09:48:15 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 09, 2023, 09:45:11 AM

I don't even like gas fireplaces

real wood is the only way to go

I was always firmly in this camp...

...until we bought a house with a gas fireplace. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 09, 2023, 09:49:51 AM

oh, they're cleaner and easier than wood, but no sound or smell to enjoy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 09, 2023, 09:51:45 AM

I had been loading youtube videos of fireplaces on a loop when we have dinner, but that wasn't working.

Get a French trophy wife and be prepared to pay some bucks for things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 09, 2023, 09:52:55 AM

well, that's not the only reason I don't have one

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 10, 2023, 04:34:10 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/dirgEaS.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 11, 2023, 10:49:00 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 11, 2023, 10:40:28 AM

Exactly. If you don't like "the media", turn it off.

Another approach, and this is not easy these days, is to focus on what unites us, rather than focus on what divides us.


The dividers get too far much attention, and they are few. For some reason they get the megaphone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 11, 2023, 11:25:36 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 11, 2023, 11:14:55 AM

Teaching what to your children? 

Anything to do with sexual orientation prior to grade 9. Let kids be kids.


History, writing, reading, math, science. That is school.

Instead, we have kids who are ultra-stressed out and confused. Combine that with lockdowns and many kids are screwed right now.

I fear that "we" have destroyed much of a generation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 11, 2023, 11:43:53 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 11, 2023, 11:25:36 AM

Anything to do with sexual orientation prior to grade 9. Let kids be kids.


History, writing, reading, math, science. That is school.

I think you might be conflating gender and sexual orientation. And in truth, we've always taught both from a very young age. (I can agree there's little value in teaching the more loopy stuff, but some of the more normalized stuff is what it is).

Alas, history is a wonky one too. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 11, 2023, 11:49:19 AM

History is fine, so long as it's not re-written. Then it becomes fiction.

I recall having a "sex-ed" segment of a social studies course in 8th grade. It was mostly birds and bees stuff - innocent, if you will. It also stressed abstaining.

(Yes, public school.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 11, 2023, 12:22:12 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 11, 2023, 11:43:53 AM

I think you might be conflating gender and sexual orientation. And in truth, we've always taught both from a very young age. (I can agree there's little value in teaching the more loopy stuff, but some of the more normalized stuff is what it is).

Alas, history is a wonky one too.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria

This Disorder was not taught in schools.  It is now- and often to elementary school children, over the strong objection of their parents.   Either you agree with this policy- parents don’t know best- or you don’t.   Polling shows a significant majority of parents don’t- but it’s being done anyway.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on June 11, 2023, 12:51:22 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 11, 2023, 11:18:46 AM

If people are "out there" trying to indoctrinate you and yours, then isn't it on you if you're allowing yourself to be exposed to their message??
This is truly bizarre.

I don't allow anything.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2023, 01:01:05 PM

How prevalent is this "indocntration" of school kids (6-10) to things like transgenderism?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 11, 2023, 01:22:16 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 11, 2023, 11:49:19 AM

History is fine, so long as it's not re-written. Then it becomes fiction.

I recall having a "sex-ed" segment of a social studies course in 8th grade. It was mostly birds and bees stuff - innocent, if you will. It also stressed abstaining.

(Yes, public school.)

I mean, most history taught to kids is sanitized. It’s always been rewritten from what it was to what we wanted to to be.

gender and sexual orientation aren’t really about sex ed. Schools have forever, in their way, taught people about how to be boys or girls, about the fact that kids have a mom and dad, and those pairs have babies. We’re just taking about scale.

Now there’s a case to make schools safe spaces from the idea that you can have two moms or that girls can wear pants every day and have short hair. And a case to shrug it off and let those things filter in as they might.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 11, 2023, 01:25:28 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 11, 2023, 12:22:12 PM

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria

This Disorder was not taught in schools.  It is now- and often to elementary school children, over the strong objection of their parents.  Either you agree with this policy- parents don’t know best- or you don’t.  Polling shows a significant majority of parents don’t- but it’s being done anyway. 

I’d agree this shouldn’t be taught to young kids Way over their heads, and such. (The idea that parents know best is dicey to me, mostly because it puts trust in people, and I try to avoid that on a large scale)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 11, 2023, 01:26:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 11, 2023, 01:01:05 PM

How prevalent is this "indocntration" of school kids (6-10) to things like transgenderism?

https://www.foxnews.com/media/powerful-teachers-union-unveils-lgbtq-toolkit-ze/zim-pronouns-classroom-critical

this a National union.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 11, 2023, 01:41:26 PM

I have an anecdotal story on trans. So sad. RIP.

I can't share any more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 11, 2023, 02:17:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 11, 2023, 01:01:05 PM

How prevalent is this "indocntration" of school kids (6-10) to things like transgenderism?

It's not. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 11, 2023, 02:42:20 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on June 11, 2023, 02:17:57 PM

It's not.

Baghdad Bob

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2023, 03:15:50 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 11, 2023, 01:26:35 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/media/powerful-teachers-union-unveils-lgbtq-toolkit-ze/zim-pronouns-classroom-critical

this a National union. 

OK, some national union unveils a toolkit.  That doesn't mean it's widely employed, or widely ignored, or widely used with 6 year olds.

I really have no reliable information as to whether this sort of thing really is a rarity or widely spread and practiced.  I do know it is a thing which can be whipped up well past molehill status.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 11, 2023, 04:04:22 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on June 11, 2023, 02:17:57 PM

It's not.

It is in public schools.

But that is not the question.  The real question is- should it be happening at all when parents are against it. 

https://www.newsweek.com/maryland-parents-protest-lgbt-books-school-boardprotect-our-children-1804972

https://edsource.org/updates/teachers-sue-escondito-school-district-over-transgender-student-policy

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/california-school-district-accused-secretly-counseling-child-transition-gender-parents-wrath

https://www.christianitydaily.com/news/parents-outraged-as-washington-school-district-teacher-promotes-transgender-agenda-to-first-grade-students.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transgender-reveal-kindergarten-class-rocklin-academy-parents-upset/

https://www.dailysignal.com/2023/06/06/antifa-armenian-parents-clash-california-school-board-meeting-required-lgbtq-activities/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 11, 2023, 04:25:25 PM

A friend of mine went to a PTA meeting in north Oakland County MI, a very conservative area. They went there with their kid, and grand kids.

They were all shocked to see vivid and near pornographic photos and posters lining the walls and cases in the hall way- relating to trans and drag. This was at 3-4 ft height- in a hallway where 2nd and 3rd graders have classrooms.

When they tried to discuss it with the teachers, the response they got was "that is our policy and we are not allowed to discuss it" 

They went home and posted this information on Google. Google took it down in an hour.


Thats how this works. Tell people its NOT prevalent- its not happening. And the tribe repeats it, on forums lije this one. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 11, 2023, 04:34:52 PM

https://www.mainecahc.org/bill-would-protect-gender-affirming-care-other-states-are-restricting-pph/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 11, 2023, 04:35:29 PM

Quote

They went home and posted this information on Google.

???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 11, 2023, 04:41:31 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 11, 2023, 04:35:29 PM

???

What’s your question?


https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&biw=390&bih=737&q=Lake+orion+elementary+schools+reviews&uds=G1IACC0SeC7kH3P2OyDahFKhQ64PSqLS9FPZ25yWAIGZU25vTrl5McSQBhJnZzlswJnFwYNtT0jQaZo8vqfcPe9YQCKPPg&sa=X&ictx=0&lei=ATGGZJiaI6mAkvQPo_SnyAU

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 11, 2023, 04:46:56 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on June 11, 2023, 02:17:57 PM

It's not.

You're gonna need to get back to us when you have kids in the public school system up there, my friend.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 11, 2023, 05:27:34 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 11, 2023, 04:41:31 PM

What’s your question?


https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&biw=390&bih=737&q=Lake+orion+elementary+schools+reviews&uds=G1IACC0SeC7kH3P2OyDahFKhQ64PSqLS9FPZ25yWAIGZU25vTrl5McSQBhJnZzlswJnFwYNtT0jQaZo8vqfcPe9YQCKPPg&sa=X&ictx=0&lei=ATGGZJiaI6mAkvQPo_SnyAU

How do you post something on Google?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 11, 2023, 05:34:18 PM

https://www.howtogeek.com/733488/how-to-leave-a-google-review/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E24raEoO778

Hear Sam- a video an article to help you.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2023, 05:38:25 PM

MARTA rail cars bound for the bottom of the sea (ajc.com) (https://www.ajc.com/neighborhoods/atlanta-intown/marta-rail-cars-bound-for-the-bottom-of-the-sea/NMI4QAJ4VJBRNAYYM3HCNLBAQ4/?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot&ecmp=intown&utm_medium=social&utm_source=intown_fb&fbclid=IwAR1ckx97FGk1wBTra_ImJSS0LLO27MffiUT872AbdHDE5rjgcaLUdYuTJzg)

Well I'll be ...

We do need new cars.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 11, 2023, 06:28:52 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 11, 2023, 05:34:18 PM

https://www.howtogeek.com/733488/how-to-leave-a-google-review/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E24raEoO778

Hear Sam- a video an article to help you. 

So they posted a review of a school? Probably filtered out by some software designed to keep culture war stuff out of the reviews. Not that anyone reads the reviews of schools on Google.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 11, 2023, 06:42:18 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 11, 2023, 06:28:52 PM

So they posted a review of a school? Probably filtered out by some software designed to keep culture war stuff out of the reviews. Not that anyone reads the reviews of schools on Google.

So- since that is what you focused on from what I posted I think I can assume 2 things Sam,

- your perfectly ok with peoples information sharing of facts being censored out
- your perfectly ok with elementary school children being exposed to drag shows and transgender information even if their parents do not want that 

Correct?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 11, 2023, 06:59:06 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 11, 2023, 06:42:18 PM

So- since that is what you focused on from what I posted I think I can assume 2 things Sam,

- your perfectly ok with peoples information sharing of facts being censored out
- your perfectly ok with elementary school children being exposed to drag shows and transgender information even if their parents do not want that

Correct?

I'm not sure where you gather all that. I'm just saying that posting on Google reviews is a rather inefficient way to broadcast your message. If you post a review of your local Arby's that drag shows for children shouldn't be tolerated, it's probably going to get deleted. There are literally more ways for anyone to broadcast their factual information right now than at any time in recorded history. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 11, 2023, 07:05:09 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 11, 2023, 06:59:06 PM

I'm not sure where you gather all that. I'm just saying that posting on Google reviews is a rather inefficient way to broadcast your message. If you post a review of your local Arby's that drag shows for children shouldn't be tolerated, it's probably going to get deleted. There are literally more ways for anyone to broadcast their factual information right now than at any time in recorded history.

So- the message was not that something should or shouldn’t be tolerated.  The message was- hey parents- did you know about what your kid’s school is doing.  

Apparently- where people share things is highly localized.   For example- where I live there are community forums where people share info about things, like school stuff, pets, neighborhood info, etc.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 11, 2023, 07:34:34 PM

Quote from: Gigem on June 11, 2023, 12:51:22 PM

I don't allow anything. 

LOL, THEN WHAT ARE YOU COMPLANING ABOUT?!!?!?!?!?!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 11, 2023, 07:46:43 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 11, 2023, 04:25:25 PM

A friend of mine went to a PTA meeting in north Oakland County MI, a very conservative area. They went there with their kid, and grand kids.

They were all shocked to see vivid and near pornographic photos and posters lining the walls and cases in the hall way- relating to trans and drag. This was at 3-4 ft height- in a hallway where 2nd and 3rd graders have classrooms.

When they tried to discuss it with the teachers, the response they got was "that is our policy and we are not allowed to discuss it" 

They went home and posted this information on Google. Google took it down in an hour.


Thats how this works. Tell people its NOT prevalent- its not happening. And the tribe repeats it, on forums lije this one. 

i don't think you understand what "single anecdote" means.
Your friend's PTA attendance and ghastly revelations do not equate to nation-wide prevalence.  Why are you completely incapable of understanding that?
Oh, and your sources on the previous post are comical.  You live n a bubble where everyone in your tribe is against INEVITABLE social progress.
.
And no, parents very often don't get it right.  Avoiding topics that are confusing and *gasp* sexual until "the right time" leads to 15 year olds being pregnant.  The most religious/rural states of our country still have the highest rates of teen pregnancy.  By far.  Why?  BECAUSE PARENTS DON'T ADDRESS IT, BY AND LARGE.  It's hush-hush. 
No, trying the same head-in-the-sand tactic for all the other "sins" you have a problem with isn't a good strategy.  You're so obsessed with being outraged that schools may or may not be informing students of these REALITIES that you never stopped to ponder WHY the schools feel the need to do so.
BECAUSE TOO MANY PARENTS DON'T ADDRESS IT THEMSELVES.  You know, something a little more nuanced than, "no son of mine is gonna be queer!"
.
You're the mud that slows the society at large from improving as a whole.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 11, 2023, 07:54:13 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on Today at 11:14:55 AM (https://www.cfb51.com/big-ten/weather-climate-and-environment/msg525187/#msg525187)

Quote

Teaching what to your children? 

Longhorn:
what transgender means and oh by the way are they themselves transgender also if so dont worry we wont tell your parents cause its none of their business

I also feel its wrong for biological males to compete in female sports and share dressing rooms


So don't inform students what a word means?  Teaching = informing
Why do parents need to be informed that a teacher is transgendered?  Do you not see how this is racism all over again?  I've dealt with sexism from parents, as if I became a teacher to what...do something inappropriate with their child?
Your issue with trans people is exactly the same thing.  It's despicable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 11, 2023, 07:58:18 PM

I agree about the sports topic.  
There's a reason there aren't a bunch of F-to-M people kicking ass in sports suddenly.  That advantage only goes one way.
.
There should be a 3rd section of athletic competition, but I fear there aren't enough athletes to make that a thing.  Maybe someday there will be, but until then, I don't know what to say.  It sucks for them, but when M-to-F trans athletes compete against biological women, it's not an even playing field.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 11, 2023, 08:36:59 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 11, 2023, 07:46:43 PM

i don't think you understand what "single anecdote" means.
Your friend's PTA attendance and ghastly revelations do not equate to nation-wide prevalence.  Why are you completely incapable of understanding that?
Oh, and your sources on the previous post are comical.  You live n a bubble where everyone in your tribe is against INEVITABLE social progress.
.
And no, parents very often don't get it right.  Avoiding topics that are confusing and *gasp* sexual until "the right time" leads to 15 year olds being pregnant.  The most religious/rural states of our country still have the highest rates of teen pregnancy.  By far.  Why?  BECAUSE PARENTS DON'T ADDRESS IT, BY AND LARGE.  It's hush-hush. 
No, trying the same head-in-the-sand tactic for all the other "sins" you have a problem with isn't a good strategy.  You're so obsessed with being outraged that schools may or may not be informing students of these REALITIES that you never stopped to ponder WHY the schools feel the need to do so.
BECAUSE TOO MANY PARENTS DON'T ADDRESS IT THEMSELVES.  You know, something a little more nuanced than, "no son of mine is gonna be queer!"
.
You're the mud that slows the society at large from improving as a whole.

Right on Que😂😂.  AntiFro comes in and shows why he is considered so radical and so far from realty- and validates why teachers are so fucked up. 
I am sure do enjoy talking to second graders about sex  And their bodies.  You call it progress.  In reality it’s pedophile. . 

you really are one sick SOB. You- and your tribe are everything wrong in this world. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 11, 2023, 09:06:22 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 11, 2023, 07:54:13 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on Today at 11:14:55 AM (https://www.cfb51.com/big-ten/weather-climate-and-environment/msg525187/#msg525187)Longhorn:
what transgender means and oh by the way are they themselves transgender also if so dont worry we wont tell your parents cause its none of their business

I also feel its wrong for biological males to compete in female sports and share dressing rooms


So don't inform students what a word means?  Teaching = informing
Why do parents need to be informed that a teacher is transgendered?  Do you not see how this is racism all over again?  I've dealt with sexism from parents, as if I became a teacher to what...do something inappropriate with their child?
Your issue with trans people is exactly the same thing.  It's despicable.

He doesn’t have an issue with Trans people- how can someone with zero reading comprehension be anywhere near children?

He has a problem with teachers like you who think they have the right to talk to elementary school. Children about mutilating their bodies and planting ideas in their head that they didn’t have before.

And our schoolchildren have fallen off a cliff in terms of math, science and virtually all other topics.

But you just keep on focusing on those innocent little bodies because you know better.  And keep telling the world that it isn’t happening.  I am sure there are some idiots in your tribe who believe you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 11, 2023, 09:08:58 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 11, 2023, 07:46:43 PM

i don't think you understand what "single anecdote" means.
Your friend's PTA attendance and ghastly revelations do not equate to nation-wide prevalence.  Why are you completely incapable of understanding that?
Oh, and your sources on the previous post are comical.  You live n a bubble where everyone in your tribe is against INEVITABLE social progress.
.
And no, parents very often don't get it right.  Avoiding topics that are confusing and *gasp* sexual until "the right time" leads to 15 year olds being pregnant.  The most religious/rural states of our country still have the highest rates of teen pregnancy.  By far.  Why?  BECAUSE PARENTS DON'T ADDRESS IT, BY AND LARGE.  It's hush-hush. 
No, trying the same head-in-the-sand tactic for all the other "sins" you have a problem with isn't a good strategy.  You're so obsessed with being outraged that schools may or may not be informing students of these REALITIES that you never stopped to ponder WHY the schools feel the need to do so.
BECAUSE TOO MANY PARENTS DON'T ADDRESS IT THEMSELVES.  You know, something a little more nuanced than, "no son of mine is gonna be queer!"
.
You're the mud that slows the society at large from improving as a whole.

Its not the school's responsibility to raise children

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 11, 2023, 09:15:24 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 11, 2023, 07:54:13 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on Today at 11:14:55 AM (https://www.cfb51.com/big-ten/weather-climate-and-environment/msg525187/#msg525187)Longhorn:
what transgender means and oh by the way are they themselves transgender also if so dont worry we wont tell your parents cause its none of their business

I also feel its wrong for biological males to compete in female sports and share dressing rooms


So don't inform students what a word means?  Teaching = informing
Why do parents need to be informed that a teacher is transgendered?  Do you not see how this is racism all over again?  I've dealt with sexism from parents, as if I became a teacher to what...do something inappropriate with their child?
Your issue with trans people is exactly the same thing.  It's despicable.

As a parent I didnt give two hoots in hell about whether or not a teacher was transgendered as it should make no difference in teaching the children proper curriculum

just because a teacher is transgendered is no reason to discuss the subject

not sure how you tie this to sexism but I guess thats your only out

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 11, 2023, 09:23:07 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 11, 2023, 09:08:58 PM

Its not the school's responsibility to raise children

A - so when parents abscond that responsibility, we just let the children wander aimlessly
B - if your child is with me for 6-7 hours per day, pretending I'm not having a major influence on them is hilariious

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 11, 2023, 09:23:50 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 11, 2023, 09:15:24 PM

As a parent I didnt give two hoots in hell about whether or not a teacher was transgendered as it should make no difference in teaching the children proper curriculum

just because a teacher is transgendered is no reason to discuss the subject

not sure how you tie this to sexism but I guess thats your only out

Uhhh kids ask questions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 11, 2023, 10:02:44 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 11, 2023, 09:23:07 PM

A - so when parents abscond that responsibility, we just let the children wander aimlessly
B - if your child is with me for 6-7 hours per day, pretending I'm not having a major influence on them is hilariious

if the parent is absent the law provides for alternatives none of which involve the school system

having a major influence in their life does not give teachers parental rights
this is perhaps the biggest mistake made by teachers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 11, 2023, 10:07:39 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 11, 2023, 09:23:50 PM

Uhhh kids ask questions.

and sometimes the answer should be to ask your parents

again a teacher is not the parent and should stick to teaching proper lesson plans which have been approved by the school system

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 11, 2023, 10:26:02 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 11, 2023, 09:08:58 PM

Its not the school's responsibility to raise children

This seems like a kind of weird bit of semantics.

It has a very narrow definition of “raise,” as we can all agree it is a school‘s responsibility to care for, educate, socialize and to some degree protect children. So the argument is that acts like that do not contribute to the “raising“ of a child.

but the definition does include alerting children to things that their parents simply don’t want them to know about the world at given points. It’s an interesting space.(there’s also sort of a wonky element because we will be forever talking past each other in terms of the meaning of the words being argued about)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 11, 2023, 10:34:04 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 11, 2023, 10:02:44 PM

if the parent is absent the law provides for alternatives none of which involve the school system

having a major influence in their life does not give teachers parental rights
this is perhaps the biggest mistake made by teachers

It's not even a conscious decision.  With a lack of guidance and care at home, a child is going to find it at school.  Just by sheer amount of time spent there.
I can aim to influence your child 0% of the time and still influence them in a major way.  It's inherent.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 11, 2023, 10:35:00 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 11, 2023, 10:07:39 PM

and sometimes the answer should be to ask your parents

again a teacher is not the parent and should stick to teaching proper lesson plans which have been approved by the school system

So if your child has questions about their transgender teacher and you don't know the teacher is transgender, how is that going to go?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 11, 2023, 10:40:33 PM

It doesn't even have to do with academics.
Much of school is guiding students to navigate social situations that cannot even occur at home.  How does a boy properly adjust his behavior when interacting with girls, if he has no sisters at home?
How does a kid figure out how to act in a group of 25 other kids when they only have 1 sibling at home? 
.
We have 5 year olds at school that have been told by their parents to always hit back in a physical altercation.  The parent is guaranteeing that their child get in as much trouble as possible at an age that neither child can really injure each other.  So to avoid that, a teacher has to expose the student to the idea that there are rules at home and different rules at school or the store or the beach or a library.  Thanks to that parent, who's singular message seems to be "just start swingin'" in every threatened instance.
It's a joke.
Leaving it all on the parents is how you get 12 year olds that don't trust the police and inevitably get in horrible situations.  It's how all of the bad -isms perpetuate through the generations.  
Actually, that's brilliant.  You're right.  By having unprotected sex, people get the right to ruin the life they make.  
I can't argue against that.  I'm wrong.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 11, 2023, 10:42:07 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 11, 2023, 10:35:00 PM

So if your child has questions about their transgender teacher and you don't know the teacher is transgender, how is that going to go?

parent teacher conference after which the parent answers the question in the manner they wish

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 11, 2023, 10:44:13 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 11, 2023, 10:40:33 PM

It doesn't even have to do with academics.
Much of school is guiding students to navigate social situations that cannot even occur at home.  How does a boy properly adjust his behavior when interacting with girls, if he has no sisters at home?
How does a kid figure out how to act in a group of 25 other kids when they only have 1 sibling at home? 
.
We have 5 year olds at school that have been told by their parents to always hit back in a physical altercation.  The parent is guaranteeing that their child get in as much trouble as possible at an age that neither child can really injure each other.  So to avoid that, a teacher has to expose the student to the idea that there are rules at home and different rules at school or the store or the beach or a library.  Thanks to that parent, who's singular message seems to be "just start swingin'" in every threatened instance.
It's a joke.

parent teacher conference they do happen as I must have attended at least 10

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 11, 2023, 10:46:55 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 11, 2023, 10:42:07 PM

parent teacher conference after which the parent answers the question in the manner they wish

Yeah, you're supposing parental participation.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 11, 2023, 10:53:13 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 11, 2023, 10:26:02 PM

This seems like a kind of weird bit of semantics.

It has a very narrow definition of “raise,” as we can all agree it is a school‘s responsibility to care for, educate, socialize and to some degree protect children. So the argument is that acts like that do not contribute to the “raising“ of a child.

but the definition does include alerting children to things that their parents simply don’t want them to know about the world at given points. It’s an interesting space.(there’s also sort of a wonky element because we will be forever talking past each other in terms of the meaning of the words being argued about)

During school hours the school is responsible for the childs safety but there are many other things socially the school is not responsible for but thinks it is

again its not the job of the school to inform a child of things that the parent does not

the purpose of school is to teach properly approved lesson plans not to inform the student that there are more then two genders or if your white you are guilty of systemic racism


now I think Ive made this as clear as possible and if you feel differently so be it 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 11, 2023, 11:00:52 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 11, 2023, 10:46:55 PM

Yeah, you're supposing parental participation. 

here in Texas if a parent refuses a parent teacher conference request it can be considered child abuse and authorities can be called by the school

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 12, 2023, 12:08:27 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 11, 2023, 11:00:52 PM

here in Texas if a parent refuses a parent teacher conference request it can be considered child abuse and authorities can be called by the school

That doesn't sound like respecting the parent all that much. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 12, 2023, 12:15:00 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 11, 2023, 10:53:13 PM

again its not the job of the school to inform a child of things that the parent does not

the purpose of school is to teach properly approved lesson plans not to inform the student that there are more then two genders or if your white you are guilty of systemic racism


now I think Ive made this as clear as possible and if you feel differently so be it

I mean, schools often inform kids about lots of things parents don't: The Peloponnesian War, Calculus, Huck Finn. Not every parent is teaching kids such things. 

And schools will no doubt inform kids about some social issues. Now we're really arguing about which social issues. Schools all the time teach kids about what it means to be a boy or girl. This we've known for a long time. And shoot, schools for a long time taught kids that some white folks at some point were pretty dang racist. 

But we do agree, delving into the more advanced parts of gender theory and most things about systemic racism are not appropriate for K-12 in most cases. I think they're just too advanced. You think they're poppycock (and I'm skeptical of some of them, to be sure). So we feel similar in some ways, different in others. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 12, 2023, 12:24:16 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 11, 2023, 11:00:52 PM

here in Texas if a parent refuses a parent teacher conference request it can be considered child abuse and authorities can be called by the school

They'll react well to that, especially if'n they're wearing a holster.  Just more gubmit over-reach.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 12, 2023, 12:30:26 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 12, 2023, 12:15:00 AM

I mean, schools often inform kids about lots of things parents don't: The Peloponnesian War, Calculus, Huck Finn. Not every parent is teaching kids such things.

And schools will no doubt inform kids about some social issues. Now we're really arguing about which social issues. Schools all the time teach kids about what it means to be a boy or girl. This we've known for a long time. And shoot, schools for a long time taught kids that some white folks at some point were pretty dang racist.

But we do agree, delving into the more advanced parts of gender theory and most things about systemic racism are not appropriate for K-12 in most cases. I think they're just too advanced. You think they're poppycock (and I'm skeptical of some of them, to be sure). So we feel similar in some ways, different in others.

You're giving them too much credit. 
What this all comes down to is that the bible thumpers can't be having that sinful nature being explained by random people they can't vet.  Can't explain any of it without 'enough' fire n' brimstone to scare the childrens, in their eyes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 12, 2023, 12:43:30 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 12, 2023, 12:24:16 AM

They'll react well to that, especially if'n they're wearing a holster.  Just more gubmit over-reach.

some times the Gov through its child welfair folks have to step in if the parent is abusing their children

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 12, 2023, 12:49:46 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 12, 2023, 12:30:26 AM

You're giving them too much credit. 
What this all comes down to is that the bible thumpers can't be having that sinful nature being explained by random people they can't vet.  Can't explain any of it without 'enough' fire n' brimstone to scare the childrens, in their eyes.

so you are calling the parents bible thumpers

sorry but the tail does not wag the dog

the parents should have the final say in anything you do with their children

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 12, 2023, 12:56:26 AM

You're sort of proving my point for me.

Religion wants (and gets) all these exceptions.
Parents want some sacred exception.
Why?
All you did is have sex.  You produced an offspring, like rats and bears and frogs.
s-l-o-w   c-l-a-p

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 12, 2023, 01:58:06 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 12, 2023, 12:56:26 AM

You're sort of proving my point for me.

Religion wants (and gets) all these exceptions.
Parents want some sacred exception.
Why?
All you did is have sex.  You produced an offspring, like rats and bears and frogs.
s-l-o-w  c-l-a-p

then you are exactly what the problem is

your job is to teach approved curriculum nothing else

the parents job is to raise the children and you dont take precedent over that

if you wanted to raise kids then you should adopt some of your own

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 12, 2023, 02:17:22 AM

I don't want to.
I teach what I'm supposed to teach.
But you're living in a fairy tale if you think opinions aren't going to go back and forth in a classroom.
.
I challenge you with spending 6-7 hours speaking & listening with someone for 180 days and have none of the talk you seem fearful of occur.
You're delusional.
And I'm obviously not the problem.  I turn all questions and off-tangent topics (time provided) into mini-lessons discussing both sides and steel-manning them with no "right" conclusion.
.
Here's an example:  we were discussing different jobs/careers and utility/pay/happiness.  I had the gall to tell them that if they focused and did well in school, they'd get to choose the job they want.  If they didn't do well in school, they'd probably grow up to have a job they don't like.  How radical of me!  Such a left-winger!
HOW DARE I!  I'M THE PROBLEM! 

Good teachers don't solely stick to a script.  That's what you tell teachers you don't trust to do.  Good teachers take all of the UNAVOIDABLE tangents and turn them into beneficial lessons that get their students to THINK.  Not indoctrinating anyone, not going off the rails because they want to, but navigating real-life issues with information and trusting the students to make up their own minds.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 07:05:11 AM

I don't know what is commonly taught these days in primary schools about any of this.  I see some examples of stuff I'd consider not good, but they are possibly isolated examples, and possibly exaggerated for impact.

I guess fortunately my kids grew up before any of this was remotely a consideration or concern.

I recall getting a note from school when mine were seniors that they were studying Genesis, but for it's literary qualities, not as a religious text.  I was fine with that.  One kid had a professor at OSU who announced first day he was a Communist, my kid said he was a pretty good professor overall.

I don't recall having any inkling of whether my professors were lib or con, none, and I got to know a few of them pretty well to the point of playing ball with them or having dinner with them at their house etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 12, 2023, 07:39:15 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 12, 2023, 02:17:22 AM

I don't want to.
I teach what I'm supposed to teach.
But you're living in a fairy tale if you think opinions aren't going to go back and forth in a classroom.
.
I challenge you with spending 6-7 hours speaking & listening with someone for 180 days and have none of the talk you seem fearful of occur.
You're delusional.
And I'm obviously not the problem.  I turn all questions and off-tangent topics (time provided) into mini-lessons discussing both sides and steel-manning them with no "right" conclusion.
.
Here's an example:  we were discussing different jobs/careers and utility/pay/happiness.  I had the gall to tell them that if they focused and did well in school, they'd get to choose the job they want.  If they didn't do well in school, they'd probably grow up to have a job they don't like.  How radical of me!  Such a left-winger!
HOW DARE I!  I'M THE PROBLEM! 

Good teachers don't solely stick to a script.  That's what you tell teachers you don't trust to do.  Good teachers take all of the UNAVOIDABLE tangents and turn them into beneficial lessons that get their students to THINK.  Not indoctrinating anyone, not going off the rails because they want to, but navigating real-life issues with information and trusting the students to make up their own minds.

Your self righteous, self inflated diatribe above is 100%missing the point.  ( as always)
Nobody said teachers don’t have influence outside of assigned curriculum
Nobody said parents ALL do a great job of talking to their kids about societal issues
Nobody here said teachers have to stick to a script
Your egotistical blather is just that.

Here is the question being posed- and it is being posed in hundreds of school districts and individual elementary schools across the country:

Should elementary school children be PROACTIVELY taught about transgender in the curriculum, with books and drag shows, when the parents of those children vehemently object to it?

That is the battle being waged. That’s it


your first position is that it’s not prevalent. But then you moved to your second position which is that this is “inevitable progress” and anyone who opposes it is standing in the way of society moving forward.

Again- to be clear- this is not about what might come up in school , or about teaching children to be inclusive- it’s about what children are being proactively taught. Should a school district or a teacher, provide a book and a lesson to a third grader which tells them they have a choice as to which gender they are, even though that child’s parents absolutely object to that?

you have made your position clear on that.  Polling shows the majority of parents in this country are in strong opposition to your opinion. Who gets to ultimately answer the question? The parents or the teachers unions and school districts?

Gender Dysphoria is a psychological disorder, which inflicts a small percentage of the population. Why should we teach people to have it just to make those who already have it feel better?


There are much better ways to go about teaching people to not discriminate. 

ultimately deep down, you know the correct answer and you illustrated it when you took the position that men should not be allowed to dominate women’s sports. It’s really the same question.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 07:54:21 AM

I know our school board was elected, so voters had some say in such matters.  I got to know a couple board members, they seemed pretty decent to me.  The HS principal seemed pretty decent, this is 20 years ago of course.  None of this was remotely a topic back then that I knew about.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 12, 2023, 08:04:44 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 07:54:21 AM

I know our school board was elected, so voters had some say in such matters.  I got to know a couple board members, they seemed pretty decent to me.  The HS principal seemed pretty decent, this is 20 years ago of course.  None of this was remotely a topic back then that I knew about.

Go back to page 1740 and see the examples I posted.  

AntiFro objects to my sources- but all I did was an internet search on this topic and that was the first 6 or 7 examples that came up.  It took me five minutes- I could have posted 100. None of them are opinion pieces- they are just factually reporting places where the school district or teachers union or local government is fighting parents who do not want their ELEMENTARY aged children being proactively taught about Transgender and or Drag.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 08:11:31 AM

My question is how prevalent this is.  There is no way to know in my view.  We have some examples cited, sure, out of the ~14,000 school districts in the US.  It COULD be very prevalent, or pretty rare, and perhaps some examples were exaggerated, I don't know.

I do know parents can twist things to get attention, it happens, or they simply didn't understand and didn't like the explanations offered.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 12, 2023, 08:12:27 AM

Yeah, foxnews and christianbullshit.com are just factual, ho-hum sources.
You're right.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 12, 2023, 08:14:51 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 08:11:31 AM

My question is how prevalent this is.  There is no way to know in my view.  We have some examples cited, sure, out of the ~14,000 school districts in the US.  It COULD be very prevalent, or pretty rare, and perhaps some examples were exaggerated, I don't know.

I do know parents can twist things to get attention, it happens, or they simply didn't understand and didn't like the explanations offered.

I'm sure it's not prevalent at all and those few that are oddly promoting it should be told to stop.  
But we have to pretend all of these kids are being scarred for life and the will of the parents is ignored.  
When a parent comes in to bitch and moan about a non-issue, the school just wants to do whatever will stop the bitching and moaning.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 08:16:14 AM

Here is in brief one example cited in Washington state:

A school in the state of Washington moved to introduce transgenderism to children when a first grade teacher was discovered to have read a book to her students, promoting the advocacy, a move that angered parents.

Jennifer Miller of Geneva Elementary School in Bellingham, Washington read the "I am Jazz" children's book to her students. The information about the incident was forwarded to Young America's Foundation (YAF), a conservative youth advocacy organization.

I'd note this apparently is one teacher, in one class, in one school.  And the reading of this book doesn't strike me as extremely heinous (I'd prefer such books not be read to first graders).  Maybe some context is needed, like did the teacher spend most of the time in the class teaching reading etc.?  Was this an isolated incident amonst more normal teachings?  I don't know.  The implication proffered is almost that the teacher was pushing this and not doing much else, which probably is not the case.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 12, 2023, 08:27:20 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 12, 2023, 08:12:27 AM

Yeah, foxnews and christianbullshit.com are just factual, ho-hum sources.
You're right.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/landonmion/2021/11/15/connecticut-school-district-teaches-kindergarteners-about-transgenderism-as-part-of-its-social-justice-lessons-n2599145  Got this from CNN

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/05/us/parents-lawsuit-transgender-child-tennessee/index.html

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-06-02/parents-protest-lgbtq-pride-day-los-angeles-saticoy-elementary-school

https://abcnews.go.com/US/books-including-gender-queer-pulled-schools-sparking-controversy/story?id=81110458

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gender-pronoun-wisconsin-kettle-moraine-school-lawsuit

-transition/

https://abc7.com/lausd-lessons-in-schools-lgbtq-pride-month-2023-los-angeles-schoool/13349852/

https://nbcmontana.com/news/nation-world/parents-protest-lgbtq-teachings-in-schools-school-board-clashes-culture-war-pride-month-merchandise-target-nike-kohls-sex-change-surgeries-puberty-blockers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 12, 2023, 08:31:56 AM

How about ABC news, NBC News, CBS News, LA times?  All left leaning.  

Took me another 5 minutes to find 20 examples.  

You’re avoiding the question ( “it is not prevalent “ doesn’t work.   It may have fooled the masses on “ 2 weeks to flatten the curve” and “ the vaccine will keep you from getting Covid” for a while)

Even if only in one example- should a school or school Districk be teaching proactively, transgender, ism, and drag, when the parents of the children involved vehemently object to it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 08:37:11 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 12, 2023, 08:31:56 AM

Even if only in one example- should a school or school Districk be teaching proactively, transgender, ism, and drag, when the parents of the children involved vehemently object to it?

Not in my view.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 12, 2023, 08:41:37 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 08:37:11 AM

Not in my view.

Well that is the overwhelming majoroopinion of parents. But the “ it’s not happening “  phase we have all seen is where we are now.  In other words- “ hey, look over there!”

Some school, districts and parents have reached a decent compromise where those lessons are pre-scheduled, and parents are allowed to opt their children out of them. But many school districts are not even allowing that and recording those days as absences.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 08:43:07 AM

Hopefully, the parents in the affected districts are heard and this stops nearly completely.  I do think most school authorities are responsive to real parental input.

Stories often do get exaggerated of course, by parents or in the media.  That's why I like hearing from "the other side".  Maybe in some examples the principal was alarmed and put a stop to things for example.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 08:51:09 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/juJWuVc.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2023, 08:52:56 AM

issues are brought to the school board if principals and superintendents do not take actions

tough job

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 12, 2023, 09:04:29 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 12, 2023, 08:14:51 AM

I'm sure it's not prevalent at all and those few that are oddly promoting it should be told to stop. 
But we have to pretend all of these kids are being scarred for life and the will of the parents is ignored. 
When a parent comes in to bitch and moan about a non-issue, the school just wants to do whatever will stop the bitching and moaning. 

I agree with that. But then lets' ask, why are our elected leaders NOT doing this but instead setting up Pride parades and celebrating this crap at the White House? Do you not see the problem here?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 09:08:35 AM

Virtue signaling is politically popular.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 09:19:19 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/QB4doYV.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 09:19:50 AM

I'm glad my last name was not "Coward", could've been tough growing up, or in the military ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 12, 2023, 09:34:04 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 07:05:11 AM

I don't know what is commonly taught these days in primary schools about any of this.  I see some examples of stuff I'd consider not good, but they are possibly isolated examples, and possibly exaggerated for impact.

I guess fortunately my kids grew up before any of this was remotely a consideration or concern.

I recall getting a note from school when mine were seniors that they were studying Genesis, but for it's literary qualities, not as a religious text.  I was fine with that.  One kid had a professor at OSU who announced first day he was a Communist, my kid said he was a pretty good professor overall.

I don't recall having any inkling of whether my professors were lib or con, none, and I got to know a few of them pretty well to the point of playing ball with them or having dinner with them at their house etc.

One in the same, yes?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 12, 2023, 09:37:58 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 11, 2023, 10:40:33 PM

Leaving it all on the parents is how you get 12 year olds that don't trust the police

What about all the idiot adults who want no police?

Is that progress?

Is this?


(https://i.imgur.com/Qq78CSS.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2023, 09:42:20 AM

it would be great if you could trust all law enforcement personnel 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 10:03:04 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 12, 2023, 09:37:58 AM

What about all the idiot adults who want no police?

Is that progress?

I doubt very many adults want no police.  Some want different kinds of policing, parts of which I could get behind, parts not.  And yes, a rare few trying to make some splash say "Defund it literally", but they are not worth notice IMHO.  Nobody has tried it, one place replaced one department with another.  Yay.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 10:04:00 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 12, 2023, 09:34:04 AM

One in the same, yes?

I never encountered a communist professor back in my days, that I knew of.  I knew some at Ohio State who didn't seem to be that.

The topic didn't come up really, but they seemed quite reasonable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2023, 10:16:24 AM

I took a few military history courses from Profs that were ROTC
they weren't libs
Also, most profs in the engineering college seemed less liberal than profs in the elective disciplines
I would assume the same for the Business college

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 12, 2023, 10:45:39 AM

Used this quote in another discussion, and thought I'd share it--not related to any ongoing discussions BTW. I just like the quote.

No one in this world, so far as I know—and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me—has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby. The mistake that is made always runs the other way. Because the plain people are able to speak and understand, and even, in many cases, to read and write, it is assumed that they have ideas in their heads, and an appetite for more. This assumption is a folly.

-H.L. Mencken

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 12, 2023, 10:58:28 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 12, 2023, 10:45:39 AM

Used this quote in another discussion, and thought I'd share it--not related to any ongoing discussions BTW. I just like the quote.

No one in this world, so far as I know—and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me—has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby. The mistake that is made always runs the other way. Because the plain people are able to speak and understand, and even, in many cases, to read and write, it is assumed that they have ideas in their heads, and an appetite for more. This assumption is a folly.

-H.L. Mencken

Mencken is awesome 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 11:02:33 AM

I found that professors in the liberal arts were liberal, and those in the conservative arts were not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 12, 2023, 11:36:02 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 11:02:33 AM

I found that professors in the liberal arts were liberal, and those in the conservative arts were not.

I was mostly joking with my comment, in case it's not known.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 11:37:01 AM

This is known.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 12, 2023, 11:41:03 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 10:04:00 AM

I never encountered a communist professor back in my days, that I knew of.  I knew some at Ohio State who didn't seem to be that.

The topic didn't come up really, but they seemed quite reasonable.

I had a professor that I'm pretty sure was a communist for one of my philosophy electives: Classic and Contemporary Marxism. 

In retrospect, I might have biased the entire class against me on the first day when I said I was taking the class to better understand Marxism in order to argue more effectively against it. 

Oops. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 12, 2023, 11:44:37 AM

I've always known Madison to be very liberal, but I didn't sense that in the classroom. This is probably due to me taking mostly classes in engineering and science. 

I did all that other fluffstuff at community college, with instructors who were not tenured (i.e., they couldn't show any lean).

This is all a LONG time ago so who knows now? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 12, 2023, 11:45:48 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 12, 2023, 11:41:03 AM

I had a professor that I'm pretty sure was a communist for one of my philosophy electives: Classic and Contemporary Marxism.

In retrospect, I might have biased the entire class against me on the first day when I said I was taking the class to better understand Marxism in order to argue more effectively against it.

Oops.

This is at Purdue? Openly pushing Marxism? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 11:49:32 AM

Teaching Marxism wouldn't necessarily be Marxist, any more than learning about Napoleon is well, napoleonic.  I read a fair bit about Hitler back when.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 12, 2023, 11:54:34 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 12, 2023, 11:45:48 AM

This is at Purdue? Openly pushing Marxism?

It was a 300-level elective, in the philosophy dept. Not required for gen-ed for any major, and not required (AFAIK) for a degree in Philosophy. 

So I wouldn't necessarily say Purdue was pushing anything. 

I minored in philosophy, so I needed 15 credit hours total to satisfy the minor, and I thought it might be somewhat interesting.

One takeaway from the class: most contemporary folks who profess that they're Marxists don't know squat about Marxism lol :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 11:55:51 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 12, 2023, 11:54:34 AM

One takeaway from the class: most contemporary folks who profess that they're Marxists don't know squat about Marxism lol :57:

What would you say is one of the most misunderstood things about it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 12, 2023, 12:40:27 PM

I'm pretty sure that what I think of as Marxism is probably wrong because I've only picked it up by context through contemporary discussions of it.  So I do my best not to talk about Marxism at all. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 12, 2023, 01:13:27 PM

I only subscribe to Mork's-ism.

(https://www.cheatsheet.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/GettyImages-93682712-1.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 12, 2023, 01:25:08 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 12, 2023, 11:41:03 AM

In retrospect, I might have biased the entire class against me on the first day when I said I was taking the class to better understand Marxism in order to argue more effectively against it.

I read Marx's manifesto for the same reason.

Understanding other ideologies is a vastly underappreciated undertaking. 

I've considered reading Hitler's Mein Kampf for the same reason but from what I've heard, it is pointless. 

Marx's Communist Manifesto is a fairly succinct ideological statement. Hitler's book is MUCH longer with (as I understand it), much of it devoted to Hitler's retelling of basically all of history into antisemitic terms. Ie, you don't really need to read it to understand him, you just need to understand that he blamed "the jews" for more-or-less everything. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 12, 2023, 01:32:45 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 12, 2023, 01:25:08 PM

I read Marx's manifesto for the same reason.

Understanding other ideologies is a vastly underappreciated undertaking.

I've considered reading Hitler's Mein Kampf for the same reason but from what I've heard, it is pointless.

Marx's Communist Manifesto is a fairly succinct ideological statement. Hitler's book is MUCH longer with (as I understand it), much of it devoted to Hitler's retelling of basically all of history into antisemitic terms. Ie, you don't really need to read it to understand him, you just need to understand that he blamed "the jews" for more-or-less everything.

Entirely true. I've read it. You don't need to.

Something I've really never understood is the Jewish people, and I know many and call them friends.

In conversation, for example...

Hi, I'm Marla, and I'm Jewish.

Me: Cool. I'm a Catholic from Chicago. Where are you from?

Her: I'm Jewish.

Obviously, that's over-simplifying things.

Can anyone shed light on this? It's almost (or is??) as if Jewish is a nationality. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 01:33:55 PM

I started reading Mein Kampf a while back, it's basically unreadable, very disjointed and erratic.  He didn't blame everything on Jews though.  He blamed a lot of folks for Germany's downfall.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 01:35:55 PM

Being Jewish is more a strong heritage than a religion.  I knew a guy at work who said he attended a Jewish Temple for atheists.

The Jews have been tromped on throughout history and have somehow maintained a consciousness of "Jewishness"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2023, 01:55:58 PM

(https://gifdb.com/images/high/big-lebowski-walter-sobchak-don-t-roll-at-shabbos-y6k6fab4tbzrt5of.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 12, 2023, 02:09:33 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 12, 2023, 01:32:45 PM

Entirely true. I've read it. You don't need to.

Something I've really never understood is the Jewish people, and I know many and call them friends.

In conversation, for example...

Hi, I'm Marla, and I'm Jewish.

Me: Cool. I'm a Catholic from Chicago. Where are you from?

Her: I'm Jewish.

Obviously, that's over-simplifying things.

Can anyone shed light on this? It's almost (or is??) as if Jewish is a nationality.

Well, first, it sounds like the person you were talking to was a weirdo.

Second, it is to a degree a heritage, people, something like that. I suppose the best comp would be Irish-Catholic or German-Lutheran. It’s sort of a fusion of national ancestry and some degree of religious history/community during your upbringing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 12, 2023, 02:16:01 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 12, 2023, 02:09:33 PM

Well, first, it sounds like the person you were talking to was a weirdo.

Second, it is to a degree a heritage, people, something like that. I suppose the best comp would be Irish-Catholic or German-Lutheran. It’s sort of a fusion of national ancestry and some degree of religious history/community during your upbringing.

How so?

Most Jews don't identify this way. There are Jews all over the world, and most of them identify as "Jewish" rather than the country they are in.

It is good to know that I'm a German-Catholic from Chicago, living in Florida. So, Florida-Catholic I guess.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 12, 2023, 02:18:03 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 12, 2023, 02:16:01 PM

How so?

Most Jews don't identify this way. There are Jews all over the world, and most of them identify as "Jewish" rather than the country they are in.

It is good to know that I'm a German-Catholic from Chicago, living in Florida. So, Florida-Catholic I guess.

German Chicago Badger Catholic in Florida 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 12, 2023, 02:29:56 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 11:55:51 AM

What would you say is one of the most misunderstood things about it?

Two ways to answer that...

One is that most people who claim an ideology are doing it as identity, and don't know anything about it. I.e. someone wants to claim to be a "Marxist" because it's fashionable and edgy and so they only gain a cursory understanding of it. In short, like a *lot* of beliefs, they're pretty much poseurs. 

They are Marxists because they are idealists and think that somehow they'd have much better lives if only the government would give them the rich peoples' money. 

However if you dig into it, I'd say one major misunderstanding is this:

They don't understand that Marx actually appreciated capitalism quite a bit. He had studied Adam Smith and he credited capitalism with besting feudalism and creating material gain far in excess of what came before it. However, he thought it was more of a transitionary stage on the way to communism, because he thought the inevitable end of capitalism was it turning on itself. I think a lot of Marxists think that he believed capitalism to be inherently evil, rather than a stop-on-the-road, so to speak. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on June 12, 2023, 02:43:34 PM

Sitting at the Drs office with my wife and I wonder, do transgender “women” go to the obgyn ? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 02:54:42 PM

I figure a picture could help ...

(https://i.imgur.com/E3o1wyG.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2023, 03:11:35 PM

R.K. Russell, the first active NFL player to come out as bisexual, sits down with the GMFB crew to talk memorable NFL moments, The Tony's, and his journey to showing the truest version of himself to the world. #Pride2023

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2023, 03:13:16 PM

New 52 Week High Today

S&P 500 Index

4,332.15
+33.29 (+0.77%)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 12, 2023, 03:26:00 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 12, 2023, 02:16:01 PM

How so?

Most Jews don't identify this way. There are Jews all over the world, and most of them identify as "Jewish" rather than the country they are in.

It is good to know that I'm a German-Catholic from Chicago, living in Florida. So, Florida-Catholic I guess.

To answer the how so, you can be Irish-Catholic from Boston, Chicago, Ohio, whatever. And it doesn't mean you actually hit up mass every day. It's kind of a cultural thing. 

Most jews identify both nationally and locally. I.e., I'm an American Jew from the Bay Area. I don't think I've met many jews at all who don't identify with their country. I suppose that could be an age thing. Some older Jews have particular issues with the countries where they came from and how they and their families were treated because of their heritage. So that might be a contributing factor to folks in your circles. 

(In some cases, there are social histories that have made jewish folks an "other," so I suppose that could contribute)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 12, 2023, 03:36:46 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 12, 2023, 03:26:00 PM

To answer the how so, you can be Irish-Catholic from Boston, Chicago, Ohio, whatever. And it doesn't mean you actually hit up mass every day. It's kind of a cultural thing.

Most jews identify both nationally and locally. I.e., I'm an American Jew from the Bay Area. I don't think I've met many jews at all who don't identify with their country. I suppose that could be an age thing. Some older Jews have particular issues with the countries where they came from and how they and their families were treated because of their heritage. So that might be a contributing factor to folks in your circles.

(In some cases, there are social histories that have made jewish folks an "other," so I suppose that could contribute)

Yes, and it's also true that there are some distinct ethnic markers of certain Jewish lineages. For a long time, whether due to their choice or the social histories BAB mentions, Jewish cultures have been rather insular without a tremendous amount of mixing with Gentiles. 

For example, 23andMe says I'm 22.5% Ashkenazi Jewish. With my maternal grandmother being Jewish (and my other grandparents not), she likely would have been nearly 100% if you tested her DNA. My wife's best friend is pretty much 100% Sephardic Jew (I believe, obv I haven't looked at her 23andMe). 

So it's more than just a religious thing, it's got ethnicity built in. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 12, 2023, 03:54:46 PM

Good stuff guys. And yes, age probably plays a part here. Those who came from behind the iron curtain are likely not proud of that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 12, 2023, 05:31:28 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 11, 2023, 08:36:59 PM

Right on Que😂😂.  AntiFro comes in and shows why he is considered so radical and so far from realty- and validates why teachers are so fucked up. 
I am sure do enjoy talking to second graders about sex  And their bodies.  You call it progress.  In reality it’s pedophile. . 

you really are one sick SOB. You- and your tribe are everything wrong in this world. 

This is what your mind jumps to?  Teachers attempting to help students understand the world around them - what they see on TV and online, but probalby not in their daily lives.....and somehow you connect that with this?

You should be banned from this board for even suggesting this.  By calling me a sick SOB combined with the phrase before it, you're out of line.
I reported your post and it will be ignored by the echo chamber mods.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 12, 2023, 05:36:18 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 11, 2023, 10:53:13 PM

again its not the job of the school to inform a child of things that the parent does not

How in the hell are we supposed to know what you haven't informed your child about?  LOL
This is madness.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 12, 2023, 05:47:21 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 12, 2023, 02:29:56 PM

Two ways to answer that...

One is that most people who claim an ideology are doing it as identity, and don't know anything about it. I.e. someone wants to claim to be a "Marxist" because it's fashionable and edgy and so they only gain a cursory understanding of it. In short, like a *lot* of beliefs, they're pretty much poseurs.

They are Marxists because they are idealists and think that somehow they'd have much better lives if only the government would give them the rich peoples' money.

However if you dig into it, I'd say one major misunderstanding is this:

They don't understand that Marx actually appreciated capitalism quite a bit. He had studied Adam Smith and he credited capitalism with besting feudalism and creating material gain far in excess of what came before it. However, he thought it was more of a transitionary stage on the way to communism, because he thought the inevitable end of capitalism was it turning on itself. I think a lot of Marxists think that he believed capitalism to be inherently evil, rather than a stop-on-the-road, so to speak.

It is interesting that when Marxism did take over a country it wasn't a highly industrialized country as Marx thought but rather Russia which was probably the least industrialized country in Europe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 12, 2023, 06:10:27 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 12, 2023, 05:36:18 PM

How in the hell are we supposed to know what you haven't informed your child about?  LOL
This is madness.

Not sure do you put out a questionnaire to find things out

like do they believe in God or do you just stick to sex

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 12, 2023, 07:03:32 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 12, 2023, 06:10:27 PM

Not sure do you put out a questionnaire to find things out

like do they believe in God or do you just stick to sex

Why is god so interested in sex?  Kinda creepy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 12, 2023, 07:19:39 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 12, 2023, 07:03:32 PM

Why is God so interested in sex?  Kinda creepy.

FIFY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 12, 2023, 07:21:04 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 12, 2023, 05:31:28 PM

This is what your mind jumps to?  Teachers attempting to help students understand the world around them - what they see on TV and online, but probalby not in their daily lives.....and somehow you connect that with this?

You should be banned from this board for even suggesting this.  By calling me a sick SOB combined with the phrase before it, you're out of line.
I reported your post and it will be ignored by the echo chamber mods.

😂😂.  You gotta love a person who can dish it out but can’t take it.  Cry us a River.

And sorry- teachers who are insistent on talking to 2nd and 3rd graders about mutilating themselves and taking hormones that will permanently neuter them, and likelycause severe depression and other physiological issues- OVER THE STATED OBJECTION OF THAT CHILDS PARENTS- is a sick person.  Why do you think you have the right to overrule the parents?  Talk about creepy and despicable. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 12, 2023, 07:36:20 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 12, 2023, 07:03:32 PM

Why is god so interested in sex?  Kinda creepy.

Religion is a numbers game. It's easier to pop out blank slates and fill them with your religion than the messiness of converting adults. 

The gays can't procreate. They can't perpetuate your religion. You need breeders. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2023, 07:38:23 PM

the lesbians can get "lucky"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 12, 2023, 07:40:19 PM

Quote from: Gigem on June 12, 2023, 02:43:34 PM

Sitting at the Drs office with my wife and I wonder, do transgender “women” go to the obgyn ?

(https://images3.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED848/642823df57084.jpeg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 12, 2023, 07:44:04 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 12, 2023, 03:36:46 PM

Yes, and it's also true that there are some distinct ethnic markers of certain Jewish lineages. For a long time, whether due to their choice or the social histories BAB mentions, Jewish cultures have been rather insular without a tremendous amount of mixing with Gentiles.

For example, 23andMe says I'm 22.5% Ashkenazi Jewish. With my maternal grandmother being Jewish (and my other grandparents not), she likely would have been nearly 100% if you tested her DNA. My wife's best friend is pretty much 100% Sephardic Jew (I believe, obv I haven't looked at her 23andMe).

So it's more than just a religious thing, it's got ethnicity built in.

Balderdash. 

Euro-Jews are White, Middle Eastern Jews are brown, and Ethiopian Jews are Black. They didn't get that way by not mixing with the locals. That bloodline got busted a long time ago. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 12, 2023, 07:45:24 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 12, 2023, 07:38:23 PM

the lesbians can get "lucky"

Pretty sure if a lesbian is in a committed relationship and comes up pregnant, her lady friend is going to be a LOT more questioning of where that baby was conceived than gullible ol' Joseph. 

"The holy spirit knocked you up? Get your 2 cats and get out!"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 12, 2023, 07:46:41 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 12, 2023, 05:31:28 PM

This is what your mind jumps to?  Teachers attempting to help students understand the world around them - what they see on TV and online, but probalby not in their daily lives.....and somehow you connect that with this?

You should be banned from this board for even suggesting this.  By calling me a sick SOB combined with the phrase before it, you're out of line.
I reported your post and it will be ignored by the echo chamber mods.

A groomer and a crybaby? 

That must suck. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2023, 07:48:40 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 12, 2023, 07:45:24 PM

Pretty sure if a lesbian is in a committed relationship and comes up pregnant, her lady friend is going to be a LOT more questioning of where that baby was conceived than gullible ol' Joseph.

"The holy spirit knocked you up? Get your 2 cats and get out!"

pretty big IF

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 12, 2023, 07:55:48 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 12, 2023, 07:21:04 PM

😂😂.  You gotta love a person who can dish it out but can’t take it.  Cry us a River.

And sorry- teachers who are insistent on talking to 2nd and 3rd graders about mutilating themselves and taking hormones that will permanently neuter them, and likelycause severe depression and other physiological issues- OVER THE STATED OBJECTION OF THAT CHILDS PARENTS- is a sick person.  Why do you think you have the right to overrule the parents?  Talk about creepy and despicable. 

I haven't advocated for anything in your post.  Change your name to BullshitStrawman, please.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 12, 2023, 07:58:22 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 12, 2023, 07:48:40 PM

pretty big IF

Really? You haven't heard that one? 

• Q: What does a lesbian bring on the second date?
• A: Her cats and a U-Haul.

• Q: What does a gay man bring on the second date?
• A: What second date?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 12, 2023, 07:59:39 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on June 12, 2023, 07:44:04 PM

Balderdash.

Euro-Jews are White, Middle Eastern Jews are brown, and Ethiopian Jews are Black. They didn't get that way by not mixing with the locals. That bloodline got busted a long time ago.

You'd make a great emperor.
And you'd get stabbed in the back on your 3rd day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2023, 08:04:04 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 12, 2023, 07:58:22 PM

Really? You haven't heard that one?

fortunately, no

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 12, 2023, 09:28:20 PM

Well this thread took a weird turn.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 12, 2023, 09:45:00 PM

Quote from: utee94 on June 12, 2023, 09:28:20 PM

Well this thread took a weird turn.

how can you tell

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2023, 09:59:34 PM

I pray that this is NOT the new normal

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 12, 2023, 10:06:23 PM

Time to talk BBQ.  

I'm doing brisket and sausage this weekend for Father's Day, we'll have about 15-20 over at the house including adults and kids.  I'm sure some people will  bring some sides.  I might even eat a bite or two of them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 12, 2023, 10:12:18 PM

My brother and I are driving up from FL for our dad's birthday on the 1st.  We're already discussing how to get the most BBQ for him to take back down to FL from the little joint in a little town that "runs out when it runs out."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 12, 2023, 10:33:13 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 12, 2023, 07:36:20 PM

The gays can't procreate. They can't perpetuate your religion. You need breeders.

I'll see if I can find Carlin mentioning exactly that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2023, 11:12:07 PM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/342022102_742327757442605_1064757389218195621_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=SWAi7ncJOF8AX8Cbn-9&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBUPs5lBueRbYQSdliivBhduBLy2AQ_FTREcU5Wd-jE4A&oe=648D3101)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 12, 2023, 11:14:46 PM

Quote from: utee94 on June 12, 2023, 10:06:23 PM

Time to talk BBQ. 

I'm doing brisket and sausage this weekend for Father's Day, we'll have about 15-20 over at the house including adults and kids.  I'm sure some people will  bring some sides.  I might even eat a bite or two of them.

When you do brisket at home- roughly how long does it take?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 12, 2023, 11:16:45 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 12, 2023, 11:14:46 PM

When you do brisket at home- roughly how long does it take?

about 8 beers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 12, 2023, 11:18:34 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 12, 2023, 11:16:45 PM

about 8 beers

Why do get the feeling that 8 beers would take a bit longer for me than you?😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 12, 2023, 11:18:48 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 12, 2023, 03:54:46 PM

Good stuff guys. And yes, age probably plays a part here. Those who came from behind the iron curtain are likely not proud of that.

Yeah, I was more talking about the not-all-that-distant past when a bunch of countries went along with some deeply heinous things. 

I wouldn't blame some folks for not claiming those things. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 12, 2023, 11:20:37 PM

Quote from: utee94 on June 12, 2023, 09:28:20 PM

Well this thread took a weird turn.

Even by our standards. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 13, 2023, 06:44:23 AM

Standards?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2023, 07:28:35 AM

After 1492, the Spanish banned the Jews (unless they converted), and many who left went to the Muslim empires of the day where they were largely welcomed, and did some good work in the Muslim "Golden Era", which was about to end.  I posit that colonization enriched the western countries to an extent they simply outran the Ottoman's et al.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 13, 2023, 09:01:31 AM

Inflation news.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/consumer-price-index-report-may-inflation-cafcbef5?st=vnld5wskxlyqxk1&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink


(https://i.imgur.com/VweJOtN.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 13, 2023, 09:50:58 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 12, 2023, 07:45:24 PM

Pretty sure if a lesbian is in a committed relationship and comes up pregnant, her lady friend is going to be a LOT more questioning of where that baby was conceived than gullible ol' Joseph.

"The holy spirit knocked you up? Get your 2 cats and get out!"

2?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 13, 2023, 10:00:40 AM

I despise cats.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2023, 10:01:47 AM

I like cats just fine, I strongly prefer dogs, but have neither.

I will say the bulldog as a breed probably shouldn't exist...:smiley_confused1:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 13, 2023, 11:07:22 AM

Cats are assholes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 13, 2023, 01:08:08 PM

Put the old dryer out on the curb last night as I'd scheduled a "bulk item pickup" with the trash company for this morning. 

Woke up today and it was gone. I know it wasn't taken by the trash company as the neighbor's couch (I had told them I was scheduling and they said they had an item) was still sitting there. So someone must have grabbed it thinking "hey, some idiot probably put a 99% perfectly good dryer out here and I can try my hand at fixing it, flip it, and make couple hundred bucks!"

Well, joke's on you, buddy. I took the motor out to return, took the heat element (including the heat element housing) out b/c the new dryer uses the exact same element and I want to have it on hand if it burns out, and reassembled everything with the minimum number of screws necessary to hold it together, so you're down half or more of the screws. 

Good luck! It's your problem now!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 13, 2023, 01:16:13 PM

It was probably the man

hes got all the spare parts he needs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2023, 01:18:55 PM

It could still be useful for spares, as noted.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 13, 2023, 01:21:54 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 13, 2023, 01:08:08 PM

Put the old dryer out on the curb last night as I'd scheduled a "bulk item pickup" with the trash company for this morning.

Woke up today and it was gone. I know it wasn't taken by the trash company as the neighbor's couch (I had told them I was scheduling and they said they had an item) was still sitting there. So someone must have grabbed it thinking "hey, some idiot probably put a 99% perfectly good dryer out here and I can try my hand at fixing it, flip it, and make couple hundred bucks!"

Well, joke's on you, buddy. I took the motor out to return, took the heat element (including the heat element housing) out b/c the new dryer uses the exact same element and I want to have it on hand if it burns out, and reassembled everything with the minimum number of screws necessary to hold it together, so you're down half or more of the screws.

Good luck! It's your problem now!

Some are always hunting for junk. Must be some degree of profitable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on June 13, 2023, 01:24:27 PM

Scrappers snatch that stuff up here. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2023, 01:27:47 PM

My buddy in Cincy would stop and pick up any lawn mower left out at the curb, he musta had 30 of'em at one time.  He'd sell'em for $50 later.  He liked to fix things, and didn't like throwing things out.  He's retired now, still living there, I'd hate to see what he has collected, he has a barn on his property full of stuff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on June 13, 2023, 02:06:23 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on June 12, 2023, 07:40:19 PM

(https://images3.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED848/642823df57084.jpeg)

I shit you not right after I posted that I *think* one came into the waiting room. I brushed it off, thinking I was mistaken but my wife, who was back with the Dr, asked me later if I saw that “manly looking woman “. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 13, 2023, 02:12:44 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 12, 2023, 11:14:46 PM

When you do brisket at home- roughly how long does it take?

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 12, 2023, 11:16:45 PM

about 8 beers

Heh, indeed, a fine answer.

It depends on the size obviously, but I generally shoot for an 11-12 lb brisket.  Cooking around 300, one of those will usually finish in about 8-10 hours.  I don't typically crutch a brisket, I leave it unwrapped.  I could shave a little time off if I crutched it but as long as I have the meat on by 6 AM, then there's really no need to hurry it along. It'll be ready between 2-4 and if we're not eating til 5 or 6, it'll easily hold in a cooler until we're ready to eat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2023, 02:15:48 PM

I may try one of these, one day, maybe, for the two of us.  Would there  be enough for her to try some?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 13, 2023, 02:26:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 13, 2023, 02:15:48 PM

I may try one of these, one day, maybe, for the two of us.  Would there be enough for her to try some?

A 12 lb brisket?  Yes, sure, there would definitely be enough for the two of you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 14, 2023, 12:28:30 AM

Quote from: Gigem on June 13, 2023, 01:24:27 PM

Scrappers snatch that stuff up here.

yup, metal is precious

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 14, 2023, 12:40:46 AM

Quote from: utee94 on June 13, 2023, 02:26:57 PM

A 12 lb brisket?  Yes, sure, there would definitely be enough for the two of you.

Maybe they're leaving themselves go

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 14, 2023, 09:09:39 AM

Housing inflation will almost surely fall soon, say economists (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/14/housing-inflation-will-almost-surely-fall-soon-say-economists.html)

• Shelter is the largest component of the consumer price index.
• The category, therefore, has a big influence on the direction of overall inflation.
• Housing trends feed through to the CPI with a substantial lag. Economists think a reversal is essentially guaranteed in the second half of the year.

I suspect the housing market has peaked and could drop rather dramatically.  Interest rates are of course one driver, pent up demand is another, which I'm guessing is also peaking.  Inventory of single family around here is still quite low.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2023, 09:37:06 AM

I think housing is going to be relatively OK. 

Lennar and DR Horton are building like crazy, all over the country, including Illinois, Indiana and Wisconsin. My firm has a ton of work with those two, and some smaller ones. We're trying to get in with Toll Brothers.

Apartments are nuts too.

What scares me is the credit card debt being carried as families have had to navigate inflation.

Another one is office space vacancies. This is very worrisome, but we are starting to see office/malls be converted to condo and apartment. That is encouraging.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 14, 2023, 09:40:50 AM

Edens to Redevelop North DeKalb Mall in Decatur, Georgia to 2.5 MSF Mixed-Use Development - REBusinessOnline (https://rebusinessonline.com/edens-to-redevelop-north-dekalb-mall-in-decatur-georgia-to-2-5-msf-mixed-use-development/)

DECATUR, GA. — Edens plans to transform North DeKalb Mall, an enclosed regional shopping mall in the Atlanta suburb of Decatur, into a 2.5 million-square-foot mixed-use development called Lulah Hills. Edens acquired the 622,297-square-foot mall in 2021 and rezoned the 73-acre site in 2022 to allow for mixed-use development. At its full build-out, Lulah Hills will feature 320,000 square feet of retail and restaurant space, 1,700 multifamily units, 100 townhomes, a 150-room hotel and a Path Foundation trail connection to nearby Emory University.

North DeKalb Mall opened in 1965 and served as the first fully enclosed mall in metro Atlanta. Demolition of the mall is expected to begin later this year, with initial phases of the project to be completed by 2025. Edens owns and operates 1.5 million square feet of retail space in metro Atlanta, including Toco Hills, Merchants Walk, Andrews Square, Buckhead Marketplace, Moores Mill and Park Place.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 14, 2023, 09:42:10 AM

Apartment buildings are going up all around us here, it's crazy, a few of them include office space on the lower floors, which I don't understand (office space is over built now).  Some condo towers are going up as well, but mostly it's apartments because younger folks have income but debt and no savings.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2023, 09:52:03 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 14, 2023, 09:42:10 AM

Apartment buildings are going up all around us here, it's crazy, a few of them include office space on the lower floors, which I don't understand (office space is over built now).  Some condo towers are going up as well, but mostly it's apartments because younger folks have income but debt and no savings.

Are they rich?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 14, 2023, 10:05:23 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 14, 2023, 09:09:39 AM

I suspect the housing market has peaked and could drop rather dramatically.  Interest rates are of course one driver, pent up demand is another, which I'm guessing is also peaking.  Inventory of single family around here is still quite low.

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/home-foreclosures-rising-in-us-where-which-states-rcna88394

Quote

As the cost of living in the U.S. continues to climb, foreclosures are also on the rise.

May foreclosure-related filings, which include default notices, scheduled auctions and bank repossessions, were up 7% from April and up 14% from a year ago, to 35,196 properties, according to the real estate data group ATTOM.

Lenders began the foreclosure process on 23,245 properties in May, up 4% from last month and up 5% from a year ago. States with the most foreclosure starts in May included Florida, where 2,901 foreclosures got underway, followed by California, with 2,451 foreclosures started, and Texas, where 2,286 properties fell into the foreclosure column.

Illinois and New York foreclosure starts came in at 1,358 and 1,287, respectively.

What I've been seeing is that the housing prices are based on a lack of inventory. The lack of inventory is based on people not being willing to sell, because there's no place to buy, so people are standing pat on their housing unless they MUST sell. Everyone knows that current prices are unaffordable, but even people with decent amounts of equity equity don't want to sell because it's so impossible to find a place they want to buy that they can actually win the multiple-offer war. 

Well, foreclosures lead to "must" sales. Which could finally get inventory up, which should bring some prices down. 

The question is how big will the correction be and how long will it take. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 14, 2023, 10:09:04 AM

When we were looking at houses, there was definitely downward pressure at the $500K price point, even for want of inventory. Lennar and DR Horton are cranking out the new builds out on the Lakeville and Carver prairie, but both the Mrs. and I were really unimpressed with the both the options and the price points for those options. 

Then again, split levels that should have been going for $350K were going for $400K to $425K with multiple offers in short order.

We had no problem whatsoever selling our house for well over what the posting price was.

Who the hell knows what to make of real estate anymore.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2023, 10:09:24 AM

"The question is how big will the correction be and how long will it take."



This depends on inflation, and when it comes down to target levels.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2023, 10:10:40 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on June 14, 2023, 10:09:04 AM

When we were looking at houses, there was definitely downward pressure at the $500K price point, even for want of inventory. Lennar and DR Horton are cranking out the new builds out on the Lakeville and Carver prairie, but both the Mrs. and I were really unimpressed with the both the options and the price points for those options. 

Then again, split levels that should have been going for $350K were going for $400K to $425K with multiple offers in short order.

We had no problem whatsoever selling our house for well over what the posting price was.

Who the hell knows what to make of real estate anymore.

Definitely been a wild ride for 3 years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 14, 2023, 10:13:34 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2023, 10:09:24 AM

"The question is how big will the correction be and how long will it take."

This depends on inflation, and when it comes down to target levels.

Well they're kinda tied together, as CD's link pointed out. If housing prices fall, inflation falls because housing prices are a big part of the CPI. If housing prices don't fall, you're going to have to see stagnation or a big fall in other prices to see inflation come down, because housing prices are a big part of the CPI. 

So they might fall together, but it could be that a housing correction is the REASON that tracked inflation levels drop, not the REACTION to inflation dropping. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 14, 2023, 10:26:23 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 14, 2023, 10:05:23 AM

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/home-foreclosures-rising-in-us-where-which-states-rcna88394

What I've been seeing is that the housing prices are based on a lack of inventory. The lack of inventory is based on people not being willing to sell, because there's no place to buy, so people are standing pat on their housing unless they MUST sell. Everyone knows that current prices are unaffordable, but even people with decent amounts of equity equity don't want to sell because it's so impossible to find a place they want to buy that they can actually win the multiple-offer war.

Well, foreclosures lead to "must" sales. Which could finally get inventory up, which should bring some prices down.

The question is how big will the correction be and how long will it take.

Pretty much nailed it. 

The cost of a home, the cost of insurance, for that home, and the cost of the money to borrow to acquire that home, combine with all the other costs, like gas, groceries, household goods, has really killed housing market.

more than anything else the lack of inventory is what is driving prices and as you say, no one wants to give up their 2.75 interest rate for the current rates which are mid 7s and higher.

while there is plenty of homebuilding going on, it’s actually quite low from a historical point of view. 

it is a bit of a vicious circle, because between the inventory, not being there and peoples unwillingness to move to that next house, whether it be first home or step up home, or retirement home, I think we’re going to see rough times in the housing market for at least another year, if not more 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 14, 2023, 10:33:15 AM

ESG Socially responsible investing: Bad idea for your 401(k) - RetireCoast.com (https://retirecoast.com/esg-socially-responsible-investing-bad-idea-for-your-401k/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 14, 2023, 10:46:41 AM

not a problem for me

I only want to feel good about my retirement

I'm not worried about saving the planet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 14, 2023, 10:56:27 AM

I think it was in this thread that we had a discussion of High Speed Rail.  I've been intrigued by the idea for years but I can't figure out a practical application in the US.  I'm curious some of your thoughts.  

A few background items:
I'm somewhat familiar with Rail here.  My City owns a short length of track.  This track is what is called "Excepted Track".  Rail regulations have various levels of track.  In general, they are:

• Excepted Track, no passenger trains, 10 MPH Freight
• Class 1:  10 MPH Freight, 15 MPH Passenger
• Class 2:  25 MPH Freight, 30 MPH Passenger
• Class 3:  40 MPH Freight, 60 MPH Passenger
• Class 4:  60 MPH Freight, 80 MPH Passenger
• Class 5:  80 MPH Freight, 90 MPH Passenger
• Class 6:  110 MPH
• Class 7:  125 MPH
• Class 8:  150 MPH

Class 6 and above only exist on Amtrack's NE Corridor between NYC and DC.  

One obvious challenge with rail is that it is massively capital intensive.  Even the low-grade, "Exepted Track" that I'm familiar with still costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to replace when necessary.  Higher classes obviously have higher standards which makes them even more expensive.  Once you have that capital investment made, the operational costs are substantially lower than air, auto, bus, or probably just about anything else but you can't simply ignore the initial capital investment (including RoW acquisition and then ongoing maintenance).  

Part of what makes anything involving RR's incredibly expensive is that it is a HIGHLY regulated and Unionized industry.  All the regulations are Federal and the Unions are national.  For example, when we pave a street across a Railroad, we have to pay Union Approved "RR flaggers" to monitor the crossing.  Their job, near as I can tell, is to watch for trains.  My four year old LOVES watching trains and could pretty much do this job but these guys are mandated by the feds at a cost of around $1,000/day each and we have to have at least two of them in order to cover their many mandated breaks.  The costs really skyrocket if we are paving after hours or on a weekend or holiday.  EVERYTHING involving rail ends up working like this.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 14, 2023, 10:59:44 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 14, 2023, 10:56:27 AM

Class 6 and above only exist on Amtrack's NE Corridor between NYC and DC. 

Florida's Bright Line I think is in this category, or will be soon.

Brightline Train Service Review [Miami - Ft. Lauderdale - WPB] (upgradedpoints.com) (https://upgradedpoints.com/travel/brightline-train-review/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 14, 2023, 11:06:09 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 14, 2023, 10:56:27 AM

Once you have that capital investment made, the operational costs are substantially lower than air, auto, bus, or probably just about anything else   

Is this true for passenger rail? 

I think the huge advantage to rail freight is that every freight car is volumetrically full, and so the very low rolling resistance of metal-on-metal rail make it very efficient. So rolling a train with 100 rail cars is a HELL of a lot more operationally efficient than rolling 100 (or 50 if they're pulling two) diesel tractor-trailers to pull the same total load. 

But I worry that becomes much less efficient when you start talking about passenger rail. Because you then have a bunch of rail cars that are full of mostly air. The passenger portion of the weight is not particularly substantial, and you may not get the same economies of scale vs, say, a bus. Maybe it's true for a 100% full train vs a 100% full bus, but buses are much more flexible so that you can adjust routings and times to ensure higher percentages of full seats on each bus. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 14, 2023, 11:20:47 AM

So for an example local to me, Cleveland has a Transit Authority as most large cities do.  Cleveland's Rapid Transit Authority (RTA) operates (I think) two train lines.  In any case, the one I am familiar with is the Red Line because it goes from downtown out to the Airport which is in my direction.  I've used it a few times for concerts, sporting events, and the like.  

The run from the Airport (CLE, Cleveland Hopkins International) to Downtown (Tower City Center) takes 38 minutes and leaves every 15 minutes.  

The problem is that Google says this is an 11.7 mi drive that takes 13 minutes by car.  Thus, taking the train costs me 25 minutes (and it is actually a lot worse than that for most people, see below).  

The only time I've used the train is for, as mentioned above, sporting events, concerts, and the like.  In those cases there are a few things that make riding the train worthwhile:

• Parking rates are jacked up downtown which offsets the cost of the train.  
• Traffic is heavy which increases the auto-travel time but does not impact the RTA time.  
• The events have been in the immediate vicinity of the downtown (Tower City) station such that the train station is probably closer to my destination than the parking lot I would use if I drove.  

So I've used the train for certain specific events but I've never used the train as a commuter.  When I was working downtown my office was VERY close to Tower City  which is ideal for using RTA but I never did it for two reasons:

• The time factor:  In light traffic the Train takes an extra 25 minutes (38 vs 13 per Google).  At rush-hour this shrinks or may even invert but there is another problem.  I don't actually live within walking distance of CLE or any RTA stations.  Thus, I'd have to get in my car, and drive to an RTA station anyway.  When I get to CLE on I71, I'm on the highway already driving.  I can't just Star Trek Transport myself from my car on I71 to a train.  I have to get off the highway, park my car, walk to the station, buy my ticket, wait for the next train, THEN go.  It would be a minor miracle if I accomplished all of that in 15 minutes so the real time difference is around 40 rather than 25 minutes.  Having commuted to downtown Cleveland for a few years I can say that the RTA would only beat traffic on *MAYBE* the two or three slowest traffic days of the year.  
• The cost factor:  In theory the RTA is cheaper than a car.  However, this includes the acquisition cost of the car.  That makes it probably cheaper if you can actually use RTA exclusively and thus avoid buying a car altogether.  For the rest of us (like me) this isn't feasible and I'd have to own a car anyway.  If I took RTA for that portion of my commute I'd save 24 mi/day on my car but so what?  Granted, my lower mileage car would be worth a little more when I sold it but the difference wouldn't be all that significant at least here in NE Ohio where it snows and we use salt on our roads.  Once my car gets to 10-13 years old or so it is going to rust out regardless of whether I drive all the way downtown or take the train the last 12 miles and my rusted out 10-13 year old car will have minimal value regardless of mileage.  12 miles is only going to be about 1/2 gallon of gas maximum so even at $4/gal the cost of the train is actually more than the cost of the gas.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 14, 2023, 11:25:23 AM

We use MARTA to get to the airport much of the time.  It's a $38 cab fare, more for Lyft.  We have over 65 passes, so the train costs $0.70 per.  It takes us about 20 minutes to walk to the station and the ride is about 25 minutes, wait times vary but are 5 minutes on average I'd say.  Traffic of course is variable and can be horrible depending on time/day.  It's about 10 miles driving.

The trains can hit 70 mph but that is on longer stretches, and we have a lot of stops.

If we have a lot of luggage or are going to the International Terminal, we usually get a ride or take a taxi.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 14, 2023, 11:56:19 AM

Continuing thoughts on HSR:

As I see it, the trip from CLE to downtown simply is NOT long enough for HSR to really work.  Even if they made that trip every 15 minutes with no stops at 200 MPH it would still take AT LEAST 5 minutes (counting speed up and slow down) so it still wouldn't really shorten my commute significantly because by the time a parked, got to the train station, and boarded, I could have more-or-less gotten to downtown in my car.  

I think you have to start far enough away that the high speed of the HSR has enough distance to build up an a big enough advantage over driving to be worthwhile.  

If you stretched the route out to near where I live, it is a 30.9 mi drive along I71 from just East of Medina to Tower City (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Tower+City,+West+6th+Street,+Cleveland,+OH/41.1363913,-81.7957606/@41.2872878,-82.0289025,11z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m5!1m1!1s0x8830f07e91bedaf1:0x7a74de6823a0f726!2m2!1d-81.6964433!2d41.4973983!1m0!3e0?authuser=0&entry=ttu).  Per Google this drive takes 31 minutes.  A nonstop train at 200 MPH would cover 30.9 mi in just over nine minutes.  Adding time for speed-up and slow-down you could probably make the trip in 15 minutes.  In theory that is half the time of driving but in practice the two are a lot closer together.  If I leave my house and pass a train station at I71 and SR18 that has 200MPH trains leaving every 15 minutes for downtown my options are:

• Stop at the train station.  Get out of my car, walk to the station, buy my ticket, walk to the platform, board the train, ride downtown, or
• Stay in my car and drive downtown.  

With option #1 the travel time is 16 minutes shorter but I have to add in time for getting from my car to the train and waiting for the next train.  A lot depends on how close I can hit the train's departure time.  If I barely miss a train and have to wait 15 minutes for the next one that eats almost the entire time savings and I still had to walk to the train.  Now granted, at rush-hour that ~31 minute drive on I71 is closer to 45 minutes or more so the 200 MPH train would be quicker.  But that assumes that my destination is RIGHT AT Tower City.  As you move my final destination away from Tower City, the utility of the train rapidly deteriorates.  


Timewise, it would only *MAYBE* make sense to take the train if it ran from Medina and Medina clearly doesn't have enough population to justify a 200 MPH train leaving every 15 minutes.  If you moved out to say Ashland (further along I71, now at 63.4 mi from Tower City) the time would clearly work.  From that distance the theoretical 200 MPH train would take about 20 minutes vs about an hour to drive (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Tower+City,+West+6th+Street,+Cleveland,+OH/40.8573414,-82.2612865/@41.05923,-82.4039627,10z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m5!1m1!1s0x8830f07e91bedaf1:0x7a74de6823a0f726!2m2!1d-81.6964433!2d41.4973983!1m0!3e0?authuser=0&entry=ttu).  The problem is that now you are in an area with even less population than Medina.  It simply doesn't make sense.  

Where I could see this working is in HEAVILY populated areas with EXTREME commute times such as the two biggest West Coast Cities, LA and San Francisco.  I think there that California's focus on using HSR to provide transportation between the two is misguided.  

Los Angeles to San Francisco is a ~6 hour drive of almost 400 miles.  Cutting that to a two hour train ride would be nice but at that point you are competing with flights that (according to Google) take 1:20 and depart 26-35 times per day.  

I think what might make more sense would be to set up HSR from say Bakersfield (113 mi, 2:04 driving N of LA (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Bakersfield,+CA/Los+Angeles,+CA/@34.7119044,-119.2362884,9z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x80ea6bc8b994cb0d:0x59360c0998fe74c8!2m2!1d-119.0187125!2d35.3732921!1m5!1m1!1s0x80c2c75ddc27da13:0xe22fdf6f254608f4!2m2!1d-118.2436849!2d34.0522342!3e0?authuser=0&entry=ttu)) to say San Bernardino (60 mi, 0:58 driving E of LA (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Los+Angeles,+CA/San+Bernardino/@34.0672575,-118.0963671,10z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x80c2c75ddc27da13:0xe22fdf6f254608f4!2m2!1d-118.2436849!2d34.0522342!1m5!1m1!1s0x80c3537de2fdb8f3:0x2867c6788c87c28d!2m2!1d-117.2897652!2d34.1083449!3e0?authuser=0&entry=ttu)).  Then the trip from Bakersfield to LA would be a little over half an hour while the trip from San Bernardino to LA would be about 20 minutes.  That is already a savings of 90 minutes to Bakersfield or 40 minutes to San Bernardino and at LA's notorious rush hour the savings would be much greater.  

@betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) , you live in LA, what do you think?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 14, 2023, 11:59:04 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 14, 2023, 11:06:09 AM

Is this true for passenger rail?

I think the huge advantage to rail freight is that every freight car is volumetrically full, and so the very low rolling resistance of metal-on-metal rail make it very efficient. So rolling a train with 100 rail cars is a HELL of a lot more operationally efficient than rolling 100 (or 50 if they're pulling two) diesel tractor-trailers to pull the same total load.

But I worry that becomes much less efficient when you start talking about passenger rail. Because you then have a bunch of rail cars that are full of mostly air. The passenger portion of the weight is not particularly substantial, and you may not get the same economies of scale vs, say, a bus. Maybe it's true for a 100% full train vs a 100% full bus, but buses are much more flexible so that you can adjust routings and times to ensure higher percentages of full seats on each bus.

I think this comes down to the population density factor.  I am certain that full trains have lower operational costs per passenger than busses or planes but if the train isn't full that obviously varies and you are right that it is a lot easier to adjust bus routes.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 14, 2023, 12:02:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 14, 2023, 11:25:23 AM

We use MARTA to get to the airport much of the time.  It's a $38 cab fare, more for Lyft.  We have over 65 passes, so the train costs $0.70 per.  It takes us about 20 minutes to walk to the station and the ride is about 25 minutes, wait times vary but are 5 minutes on average I'd say.  Traffic of course is variable and can be horrible depending on time/day.  It's about 10 miles driving.

The trains can hit 70 mph but that is on longer stretches, and we have a lot of stops.

If we have a lot of luggage or are going to the International Terminal, we usually get a ride or take a taxi.

I used MARTA twice:  To get from it's Northern terminus to downtown then to get from downtown out to it's Northern terminus.  

I was in Atlanta for the 2007 Final Four and before the CG we parked at the Northern terminus of the MARTA and took the train back downtown for the game.  After the game we got on the MARTA and rode it out to the Northern terminus then drove home.  It was convenient for that.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 14, 2023, 12:14:02 PM

Big issue with HSR is whether it's purely point-to-point (at which time you get the "high speed" advantage) or whether it has to make a bunch of stops (at which time you don't). 

I.e. there's a rail from the Stockholm airport to the city center. It was point-to-point and tops out at 200 kph (~120 mph). It was a joy, especially since it dropped me off a block from the hotel in the city center.

That's where it could potentially make sense for LA->SF. If you could make it from LA Union Station to Downtown SF (or even SFO and transfer to BART) in <3 hours, it starts to be competitive with flying. But if you're stopping a bunch of times, and it's now a 5 hour trip, it's too expensive and too slow to compete with either driving or flying. 

However, part of the idea is that you're serving the central valley. And if trains just run through at 200 mph and never actually stop to pick up passengers there, it kinda defeats the point. 

So they're going to have to balance how many express trains they run a day vs actually serving those in between. And if it's too few, or if they are sometimes getting delayed due to routing around the other non-express trains (and thus not meeting theoretical transit time), it kinda screws the deal. Especially for someone like me who can MUCH more easily get to SNA and fly direct, or someone out in the IE who can get to Ontario and fly direct, or someone closer to Long Beach or Burbank, who can fly direct w/o having to get to downtown LA somehow. And if the ridership doesn't justify that many express trains, then you won't get many express trains, and the failure will feed on itself. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 14, 2023, 12:16:39 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 14, 2023, 11:59:04 AM

I think this comes down to the population density factor.  I am certain that full trains have lower operational costs per passenger than busses or planes but if the train isn't full that obviously varies and you are right that it is a lot easier to adjust bus routes. 

Right... Which is why light rail and subways/etc can make sense in a lot of dense areas, and HSR is for intercity rail. 

The issue IMHO is that the US doesn't have the population density to make sense for intercity HSR in most areas. 

In either case, if you can't keep the trains full, it's a boondoggle. That's why a lot of light rail (such as Phoenix) has high cost and low ridership, and why LA->SF HSR is a pipe dream. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2023, 12:29:03 PM

We had a Chicago office for a time. I'd go once per week. Super convenient to use the Metra NW line. I lived two blocks from one of the busiest stations, and they ran an express line from my stop all the way downtown (Oglivie). I'd walk across the street to Union Station, which my office was above. The walking was 10 minutes total. Train 35 minutes.

You could not get to downtown Chicago in 45 minutes from Palatine back then - no matter the time of day. Maybe you can now?? I don't know anymore.

And then parking would be at least $35/day. Probably still is.

Round trip was $8 bucks. Don't know what it is now, but I'm sure it's not $35.00.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 14, 2023, 12:33:54 PM

Yeah, when we went to Chicago in 2019, we used transit or Uber for everything except the one-day excursion to West Lafayette for a game, where we rented a car downtown and returned it downtown the next day. 

Easy to get from Midway to the Loop and back via transit. Used transit to get from downtown to Wrigley and then from there out to Greektown and back. Most of the rest was walking, although we used Uber to get to the Museum of Science & Industry as it's not really convenient. 

But then, Chicago has a very dense downtown and relatively dense suburbs, so transit makes more sense than someplace like Los Angeles where there's a HECK of a lot more suburban sprawl and the downtown is less dense. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2023, 12:40:23 PM

I give the planners who did Chicago a ton of credit. That's how it's done. The Metra is expansive, and the L gets you anywhere else you need to go (almost). I almost always went on a Friday and then I'd meet my wife at the harbor in Kenosha.

(https://i.imgur.com/at2bVbR.png)


(https://i.imgur.com/B5fYHaZ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 14, 2023, 02:54:44 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 14, 2023, 12:14:02 PM

Big issue with HSR is whether it's purely point-to-point (at which time you get the "high speed" advantage) or whether it has to make a bunch of stops (at which time you don't).

I.e. there's a rail from the Stockholm airport to the city center. It was point-to-point and tops out at 200 kph (~120 mph). It was a joy, especially since it dropped me off a block from the hotel in the city center.

That's where it could potentially make sense for LA->SF. If you could make it from LA Union Station to Downtown SF (or even SFO and transfer to BART) in <3 hours, it starts to be competitive with flying. But if you're stopping a bunch of times, and it's now a 5 hour trip, it's too expensive and too slow to compete with either driving or flying.

However, part of the idea is that you're serving the central valley. And if trains just run through at 200 mph and never actually stop to pick up passengers there, it kinda defeats the point.

So they're going to have to balance how many express trains they run a day vs actually serving those in between. And if it's too few, or if they are sometimes getting delayed due to routing around the other non-express trains (and thus not meeting theoretical transit time), it kinda screws the deal. Especially for someone like me who can MUCH more easily get to SNA and fly direct, or someone out in the IE who can get to Ontario and fly direct, or someone closer to Long Beach or Burbank, who can fly direct w/o having to get to downtown LA somehow. And if the ridership doesn't justify that many express trains, then you won't get many express trains, and the failure will feed on itself.

This is a very important point.  

My local example is the Cleveland RTA.  That line I mentioned before has the roughly 11 mi trip from CLE to Downtown broken into 11 legs so the stops are something like 1mi apart.  From my perspective as someone who lives beyond the terminus and only ever takes the thing the whole way, that is WAY too many.  Also, anything like HSR is obviously impossible when the train has to stop every mile.  

OTOH, I think that the intention of the designers was for the system to be "walkable".  Ie, if you look at the 3rd and 4th outer-most stops (West Park Station and Puritas), they are 1.6 mi apart as one would walk (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Puritas+-+W+150+Rapid+Station,+West+150th+Street,+Cleveland,+OH/West+Park+Rapid+Station,+Cleveland,+OH/@41.4487457,-81.8106073,15z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x8830edb9bcff3453:0x689c10542afd5d27!2m2!1d-81.8058395!2d41.4404236!1m5!1m1!1s0x8830edee3629b61f:0x6fcd9b8b628bd059!2m2!1d-81.7925958!2d41.4569548!3e2?authuser=0&entry=ttu) (per google).  That only makes sense if you are intending the system to be, as I said, "walkable".  Everybody who lives within a couple of miles of the line is within no more than about a 2 mi walk from a train station.  That serves the purpose of making the system walkable but it also makes it incredibly slow.  As noted in my upthread example, the full Red Line trip from CLE to Downtown Cleveland (Tower City) takes 38 minutes despite being <12 miles by car.  12 miles in 38 minutes suggests that they are averaging about 18 MPH.  That includes stops but still, it is incredibly slow.  

To actually work in practice I think HSR has to be designed to work with the local RTA/MARTA/BART systems.  

I don't know, but I *THINK* you'd need a stop basically at the end of the local RTA/MARTA/BART system (which might be extended and speeded up to make this work) both entering and exiting a metropolis.  I know that slows things down but it cuts down on the extra distance problem that otherwise would exist.  

An example:
Suppose that Ohio had HSR running point-to-point at 200 MPH from Downtown Cleveland (Tower City) to Downtown Columbus (I used the Ohio Statehouse).  Per google that is a drive of 149 mi which takes 2:15.  At 200 MPH a train should be able to make it in about 45 minutes which is great.  That saves 90 minutes but only if you actually need to travel that distance.  

Now suppose I'm going to Columbus for a football or basketball game (tying in to this message board).  I'm in Medina (hence the name) so I'd need to get in my car and drive North (the wrong way) to downtown Cleveland.  Then I'd need to find and pay for parking.  Then I'd need to walk to the station, then buy my ticket, then walk to the platform, then wait for the train.  

My drive to downtown Cleveland takes 39 minutes (per google), then if I could park and get to a train in 20 minutes that would probably be an accomplishment so one hour into my trip I'd START heading South at 200 MPH.  Thus, I'd arrive at the Ohio Statehouse at 1:45 into my trip.  Then I'd need some form of transportation from the Statehouse back North to Campus.  Per google this is a 6.4mi drive that takes 11 minutes but since I wouldn't have my car I'd be on a bus which, per google takes half an hour.  So I'd get to Campus 2:15 after leaving.  That is slower than driving, example:

• Leave my house at noon and either drive S to get to Campus or North to take the train.  
• 12:39: if I head S I'm now about 40 miles down I71 (roughly Ashland).  Via the train I'm just getting to Downtown Cleveland.  
• 1:00 PM:  If I head S I'm now about half-way between Mansfield and Delaware so approaching the far Columbus exurbs.  If I take the train I'm just getting rolling from Cleveland.  
• 1:28 PM:  If I head S I'm now roughly at the Northern I270/I71 interchange.  Via the train I'm a little better than half way from Cleveland to Columbus.  
• 1:34 PM:  If I head S I'm now at the exit that I usually use for Campus.  Via the train I'm now 11 minutes out from downtown Columbus.  
• 1:45 PM:  If I head S I'm now parking at either the Stadium or the Arena.  Via the train I'm arriving in downtown Columbus and I'm still a half hour bus ride from Campus.  

The fact that it doesn't make sense for me as an individual isn't important.  The problem is that there are inherently going to be a lot of people similarly situated in that they don't actually need to start or end or both downtown.  If you ( @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) ) have a meeting in San Jose, at least getting to downtown LA is the same general direction as your meeting but if the train then takes you to downtown San Francisco you've overshot your destination by about 50 miles.  Even at 200 MPH that is a waste of 15 minutes and you now have to make the return trip likely at a much lower speed.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 14, 2023, 03:29:42 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 14, 2023, 02:54:44 PM

The fact that it doesn't make sense for me as an individual isn't important.  The problem is that there are inherently going to be a lot of people similarly situated in that they don't actually need to start or end or both downtown.  If you ( @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) ) have a meeting in San Jose, at least getting to downtown LA is the same general direction as your meeting but if the train then takes you to downtown San Francisco you've overshot your destination by about 50 miles.  Even at 200 MPH that is a waste of 15 minutes and you now have to make the return trip likely at a much lower speed. 

Exactly. 

And as I pointed out, it's even worse where I am.

• From where I am, it's about a 10 minute drive to the Irvine metro station. (0:10) 
• I can park free, then cut that close enough to not have to wait more than maybe 10-15 minutes for a train. (0:20) 
• That train will take me an hour to get to LA. (1:20)
• From there I don't want to cut it closer than maybe 20 minutes to transfer to HSR. (1:40)
• Assuming express, it's now about 2 hours and 40 minutes to SJ/SF I'm going to assume that they're going to make both stops even on the express. (5:20)
• Now I have to get a car or Uber, but I'm not going to factor that in b/c I'd have to do that if I fly anyway. 

Compare that to flying.

• It's 30 minutes to SNA. (0:30)
• While I have cut it closer than this before, with great success as SNA is a pretty quick airport and I know have TSA precheck, I like to get there ~75 minutes before my flight. (1:45)
• It's basically a 1 hour flight gate to gate. (2:45)
• If I'm in San Jose, I'm done. Gotta get a car or Uber. 
• If I'm heading to downtown SF, I need to take a 30 minute BART train, and let's assume an extra 30 minutes for waiting/ticketing/etc (3:45).

So for SJ I save 2 1/2 hours. For SF I save maybe 1 1/2 hours. 

If HSR would cost much less, I'd consider it (for personal travel, not likely for business because time=$$). But if it costs roughly the same as a flight, why would I bother? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 14, 2023, 03:56:34 PM

In France it works pretty well because the government paid for it, and subsidizes it, but flights often are cheaper than the train.  The main thing about the TGV is it can drop you in the middle of whatever city while the airport may be well outside of it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 14, 2023, 05:01:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 14, 2023, 03:56:34 PM

In France it works pretty well because the government paid for it, and subsidizes it, but flights often are cheaper than the train.  The main thing about the TGV is it can drop you in the middle of whatever city while the airport may be well outside of it.

My understanding is that in most of Europe the subsidy is either directly or indirectly paid with fuel taxes that make auto and air transport more expensive.  Thus the subsidy and tax act together to both push and pull travelers to the trains.  

Note that this isn't the only reason trains are so much more practical in Europe.  The biggest reason is that Europe has substantially higher population density which obviously makes public transit much more practical.  

Building off of Beta's LA->SF example:
Per google the flight (LAX to SFO) takes 1:10 with prices starting at $108.  Per Google Flights the price ranges from $108 to $359 but I would guess that most travelers are paying around $150-200 so call it $175.  The time ranges from 1:10 to 1:36 so call it 1:25.  

To make the same trip by car Google says it is 379 mi and takes 6:20.  379 mi at 30 MPG would cost you 12.6 gallons of gas.  According to Google, gas in California is about $5/gallon so that is about $65 in gas to make the trip by car but gets cheaper per-passenger as you add people unlike flying which costs the same per traveler.  

Per Beta's example the train would take around 2:40.  Lets say, just for sake of discussion that a "free market price" for the train would be about 75% of flying so about $130.  

Now for someone traveling alone the options are:

• 1:25 to fly, costs $175
• 2:40 by train, costs $130
• 6:20 to drive, costs $65

It is a pretty simple analysis at that point, if you start from flying:

• Train costs you 1:15 and saves you $45.  That is $36/hour.  
• Driving costs you 4:55 and saves you $110.  That is about $22/hour.  

Most of us are going to pay the $36/hour to upgrade from the train to the plane and nearly all of us will forgo driving.  The main exception would be if someone is taking their family.  If you have four people on the trip the numbers change dramatically:

• 1:25 to fly, costs $700.  
• 2:40 by train, costs $520.  
• 6:20 to drive, costs $65.  

Starting once again from flying:

• Train costs you 1:15 and saves $180 (same math as above just x4).  
• Driving costs you 4:55 and saves you $635.  You might actually spend the time in the car if it saves you $635 depending on what you are doing and how big of a hurry you are in.  

Now if we institute a tax that increases the price of flying or driving by 30% while decreasing the price of the train by 30% we get:

• 1:25 to fly, costs $227.50
• 2:40 by train, costs $91.  
• 6:20 to drive, costs $84.50.  

Or keep going.  Eventually the train becomes a viable option for enough people to make it work.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 14, 2023, 05:44:30 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 14, 2023, 05:01:29 PM

Now for someone traveling alone the options are:

• 1:25 to fly, costs $175
• 2:40 by train, costs $130
• 6:20 to drive, costs $65

Now if we institute a tax that increases the price of flying or driving by 30% while decreasing the price of the train by 30% we get:

• 1:25 to fly, costs $227.50
• 2:40 by train, costs $91. 
• 6:20 to drive, costs $84.50. 

And there we have the crux of government.

"You don't want to do what we tell you to do? Okay, we're going to make your preferences more expensive to pay to make our preferences cheaper so that you do what we tell you to do!"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 14, 2023, 06:01:42 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 14, 2023, 09:09:39 AM

Housing inflation will almost surely fall soon, say economists (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/14/housing-inflation-will-almost-surely-fall-soon-say-economists.html)

• Shelter is the largest component of the consumer price index.
• The category, therefore, has a big influence on the direction of overall inflation.
• Housing trends feed through to the CPI with a substantial lag. Economists think a reversal is essentially guaranteed in the second half of the year.

I suspect the housing market has peaked and could drop rather dramatically.  Interest rates are of course one driver, pent up demand is another, which I'm guessing is also peaking.  Inventory of single family around here is still quite low.

Because of my upbringing, I will never believe this to be the case.

I would really like it to be the case, because I now live in and in demand urban area like a sucker.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 14, 2023, 06:09:08 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2023, 12:29:03 PM

We had a Chicago office for a time. I'd go once per week. Super convenient to use the Metra NW line. I lived two blocks from one of the busiest stations, and they ran an express line from my stop all the way downtown (Oglivie). I'd walk across the street to Union Station, which my office was above. The walking was 10 minutes total. Train 35 minutes.

You could not get to downtown Chicago in 45 minutes from Palatine back then - no matter the time of day. Maybe you can now?? I don't know anymore.

And then parking would be at least $35/day. Probably still is.

Round trip was $8 bucks. Don't know what it is now, but I'm sure it's not $35.00.

Badge, as he often does, cuts to the core.

If driving is a dogshit experience and quite expensive, people take good public transit.

And if driving is just annoying and not prohibitive, people drive.

I live a block from a train, work two blocks from a stop. But the scheduling is so-so at best, and the 11 minute drive with free parking is fine. Plus my end of day flexibility and ability to toss things in the trunk increases considerably.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on June 14, 2023, 09:56:26 PM

My company today announced they are going to start restricting being able to download things into usb drives and other types of removable storage. It all has to be done via email, Teams, share point, etc. 

Not saying I regularly use thumb drives anymore or other portable media but this just seems extra draconian. We often have pdf files and 
Pictures that far exceed email size restrictions that need To go to outside vendors. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 14, 2023, 10:26:20 PM

Quote from: Gigem on June 14, 2023, 09:56:26 PM

My company today announced they are going to start restricting being able to download things into usb drives and other types of removable storage. It all has to be done via email, Teams, share point, etc.

Not saying I regularly use thumb drives anymore or other portable media but this just seems extra draconian. We often have pdf files and
Pictures that far exceed email size restrictions that need To go to outside vendors.

Yeah we've had restrictions like that for years. Pretty sure that was a restriction even when I worked at AMD almost 20 years ago.

I've honestly been surprised when I've heard recent complaints like yours about it, I had no idea saving corporate files to a thumb drive was even still a thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 14, 2023, 10:39:07 PM

Quote from: Gigem on June 14, 2023, 09:56:26 PM

My company today announced they are going to start restricting being able to download things into usb drives and other types of removable storage. It all has to be done via email, Teams, share point, etc.

Not saying I regularly use thumb drives anymore or other portable media but this just seems extra draconian. We often have pdf files and
Pictures that far exceed email size restrictions that need To go to outside vendors.

Gotta track that data. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 14, 2023, 10:47:26 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 14, 2023, 10:39:07 PM

Gotta track that data.

I mean, it's a pretty huge security risk.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 14, 2023, 11:30:36 PM

Quote from: utee94 on June 14, 2023, 10:47:26 PM

I mean, it's a pretty huge security risk.

both my children work from home and have never had those restrictions

but its not high tech so maybe thats the reason

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 15, 2023, 12:10:20 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/K3vGQAM.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 15, 2023, 12:10:29 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/W8xjIAh.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 15, 2023, 12:12:39 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/NaUrCaI.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 15, 2023, 07:12:54 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 14, 2023, 06:09:08 PM

Badge, as he often does, cuts to the core.

If driving is a dogshit experience and quite expensive, people take good public transit.

And if driving is just annoying and not prohibitive, people drive.

I live a block from a train, work two blocks from a stop. But the scheduling is so-so at best, and the 11 minute drive with free parking is fine. Plus my end of day flexibility and ability to toss things in the trunk increases considerably.

That's where Chicago killed it. I could start work at that office anywhere from 6AM to 9AM and still have an express no matter the time I chose (mostly early).

I'd drive too if I were you. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 15, 2023, 01:06:05 PM

Quote from: utee94 on June 14, 2023, 10:47:26 PM

I mean, it's a pretty huge security risk.

Oh yeah. I mean, you track it so you know who to fire or sue/discourage acts that lead to firings/suing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 15, 2023, 01:15:18 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 14, 2023, 11:30:36 PM

both my children work from home and have never had those restrictions

but its not high tech so maybe thats the reason

Yeah, Tech companies are more aware of the risk-- especially companies like mine, that own other Tech security companies. :)

But that doesn't mean the risk is any less for a non-tech company.  If anything, it's greater, because non-tech companies are less likely to be tracking those moves, so they'd have absolutely no idea where a breach occurred, if one does.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 15, 2023, 01:16:02 PM

We have a no external storage policy, but I ignore it.

Fire me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 15, 2023, 01:28:29 PM

Does anyone here use a cloud storage solution for offsite backup? 

I have a bunch of data stored on a NAS system in a mirrored RAID-1 setup, as (being in data storage) I know that the rule is that you should never trust any data that you want to keep to be stored on a single device. But in the back of my mind I still keep worrying about fire, theft, electrical overstress, etc that could take it down. So I'm looking for offsite. Most of what I can see is <$10/month for unlimited storage. 

Only restriction is that it *must* support Linux, as my home server that would be hosting the application to keep the NAS and the cloud storage synced is a Linux box, and I don't use Windows for basically anything if I can avoid it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 16, 2023, 07:54:48 AM

We're seeing some of this. We have what we call basic training. 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-grads-have-no-idea-how-to-behave-in-the-office-help-is-on-the-way-677f6ba1?st=msv01035wo7k41p&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2023, 08:53:25 AM

Ukraine’s counteroffensive so far: steady gains, heavy losses | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4052608-how-ukraines-counteroffensive-is-going-so-far/)

It's hard for me to see a very positive outcome from all of this, just more of a WW One like scenario.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 16, 2023, 09:06:01 AM

I'd rather the US and NATO not be involved in the proxy-war crap. Ukraine, to me, is not worth it. 

It's a corrupt country that offers little to nothing to the West, except corruption opportunities and grain.

If the US and NATO really wanted to make an impact, it could have taken down Russia. Now it's too late for that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on June 16, 2023, 09:12:01 AM

Ukraine's offensive has barely started and has been limited to small scale probing and shaping.  It will be a couple months before the results can be judged.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 16, 2023, 09:15:34 AM

Yeah, all while Russia is staging nukes in its suburb of Belarus.

This is not going to end well. We need to get out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 16, 2023, 09:17:40 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 16, 2023, 09:06:01 AM

I'd rather the US and NATO not be involved in the proxy-war crap. Ukraine, to me, is not worth it.

It's a corrupt country that offers little to nothing to the West, except corruption opportunities and grain.

If the US and NATO really wanted to make an impact, it could have taken down Russia. Now it's too late for that.

I fail to see any vital US Strategic interest in who controls Ukraine. Apart from that, while Russia's conventional military appears to be a bit of a paper tiger, they remain a nuclear power and I am adamantly opposed to risking nuclear war over something that simply is not important to the US.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 16, 2023, 09:28:09 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 15, 2023, 01:28:29 PM

Does anyone here use a cloud storage solution for offsite backup?

I have a bunch of data stored on a NAS system in a mirrored RAID-1 setup, as (being in data storage) I know that the rule is that you should never trust any data that you want to keep to be stored on a single device. But in the back of my mind I still keep worrying about fire, theft, electrical overstress, etc that could take it down. So I'm looking for offsite. Most of what I can see is <$10/month for unlimited storage.

Only restriction is that it *must* support Linux, as my home server that would be hosting the application to keep the NAS and the cloud storage synced is a Linux box, and I don't use Windows for basically anything if I can avoid it.

Yeah I lost a RAIDED NAS system many years back, and moved over to cloud storage. Windows not a problem for me since I'm thoroughly in the MS world.

I'm using iDrive because it supports multiple systems/OS on a single account.  There's even some Linux support, but I don't know if it's exactly what you need.  Here's what CDNet said about Linux for iDrive: 

Quote

There's also a Linux backup option (https://www.anrdoezrs.net/links/9041660/type/dlg/sid/zd-2ab74d7d4664412cacdfd43983d2f447---xid-fr1615139542008edd/https://www.idrive.com/online-backup-linux), but it's meant for Linux servers. There is no desktop Linux storage client. Darn it! You can, however, use its web interface for manually uploading files.

https://www.idrive.com/online-backup-linux?ref=cj&coupon=CJ1TB75OFF

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 16, 2023, 10:12:19 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 16, 2023, 09:17:40 AM

I fail to see any vital US Strategic interest in who controls Ukraine. Apart from that, while Russia's conventional military appears to be a bit of a paper tiger, they remain a nuclear power and I am adamantly opposed to risking nuclear war over something that simply is not important to the US.

Exactly.

When the USSR fell, I kinda said to myself, "wow, this is great".

Then I pondered the idea of instead of one corrupt country, now we have 25.

Yeah, that's great...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 16, 2023, 10:41:07 AM

Quote from: utee94 on June 16, 2023, 09:28:09 AM

Yeah I lost a RAIDED NAS system many years back, and moved over to cloud storage. Windows not a problem for me since I'm thoroughly in the MS world.

I'm using iDrive because it supports multiple systems/OS on a single account.  There's even some Linux support, but I don't know if it's exactly what you need.  Here's what CDNet said about Linux for iDrive:


https://www.idrive.com/online-backup-linux?ref=cj&coupon=CJ1TB75OFF

Got it. Thanks.

Yeah, I'm looking for something with a Linux desktop client. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 16, 2023, 11:26:49 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 16, 2023, 09:17:40 AM

I fail to see any vital US Strategic interest in who controls Ukraine. Apart from that, while Russia's conventional military appears to be a bit of a paper tiger, they remain a nuclear power and I am adamantly opposed to risking nuclear war over something that simply is not important to the US.

What's worth a Nuclear War really? Like the Computer said in the movie War Games "The only winning move is not to play"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 16, 2023, 11:48:37 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 16, 2023, 11:26:49 AM

What's worth a Nuclear War really? Like the Computer said in the movie War Games "The only winning move is not to play"

Well, that is a really deep question.  My answer, kinda generically, would be an existential threat.  As a practical matter that basically only means a nuclear threat.  Ie, if Putin says "I've had it with you (NATO) supporting my enemy, as of (date certain) anyone supporting Ukraine will be at war with Russia and subject to Nuclear retaliation from Russia."  Ok, at that point there are only two choices:

• Back out of Ukraine (Which I already favor), or
• Nuke Russia first and *HOPE* that your first-strike neutralizes their launch capability.  

Then there is the issue of the "Letter of Last Resort", what to do in the case that we get vaporized (https://slate.com/human-interest/2009/01/nuclear-apocalypse-and-the-letter-of-last-resort.html).  That link is somewhat outdated but an interesting read.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2023, 11:57:56 AM

NATO has had a vested strategic interest in border stability in Europe, it's really one of their unwritten rules.  When a country starts moving a border using military force, it's pretty serious.  It can happen in Africa and they don't get too worried, or Yugoslavia can break up and it's "OK" except for the strife that followed.  The core idea is that borders are sacrosanct.  Nobody should be allowed to change any of them by force.  Crimea worried everyone but there didn't seem to be any option.  I think folks figured "OK, it used to be Russia, we'll use harsh naguage and let it go."  The idea Russia could basically run over Ukraine and install their own rump government was viewed differrently.  When Ukraine resisted, it obviously encouraged support to keep them humming.

This is inherent in Article V, which of course doesn't include Ukraine fortunately.

I think the other interest is to bleed Russia dry and get rid of Putin.  "We" are putting in "money" basically and Russia is putting in troops.  Ukraine is our mercenary force.

I don't think we'd launch a first strike on Russia and if we did, there is little chance we'd knock out everything, and even ten remaining for counterstrike would be ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 16, 2023, 12:45:38 PM

My "nephew". Because Long Beach lol...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 16, 2023, 12:52:05 PM

WTF...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2023, 01:36:47 PM

Live updates: Latest news on Russia and the war in Ukraine (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/16/russia-ukraine-live-updates.html)

An international team of investigators said in a new report that it is “highly likely Russian forces deliberately destroyed” the Kakhovka dam in southern Ukraine.

“We find there is a high probability the collapse of the dam was caused by pre-emplaced explosives positioned at critical points within its structure,” explained Catriona Murdoch, a lawyer and expert in starvation-related crimes, who was also part of one of the first delegations to arrive at the site.

One reason I tend to believe this is how tough it would be to take out a dam externally with some weapon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 16, 2023, 02:09:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 16, 2023, 01:36:47 PM

Live updates: Latest news on Russia and the war in Ukraine (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/16/russia-ukraine-live-updates.html)

An international team of investigators said in a new report that it is “highly likely Russian forces deliberately destroyed” the Kakhovka dam in southern Ukraine.

“We find there is a high probability the collapse of the dam was caused by pre-emplaced explosives positioned at critical points within its structure,” explained Catriona Murdoch, a lawyer and expert in starvation-related crimes, who was also part of one of the first delegations to arrive at the site.

One reason I tend to believe this is how tough it would be to take out a dam externally with some weapon.

An Anglo-American operation did it to some German dams 80 years ago and it took a LOT of planning, design, and effort:   
https://youtu.be/aHGgXi4Kwqw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2023, 05:07:48 PM

Yup, and it took some heavy ordinance as well, a thing not common with Ukrainian armed forces.  A five inch shell would make a small dent in most dams.  You reallly need to get inside the dam and pile up a lot of stuff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 16, 2023, 05:59:23 PM

Russia-Ukraine aside, I don't think big, obvious county-vs-country war is a thing anymore, when it comes to the top handful of countries.
.
That's why I find it more likely 1 nuke is slipped in and set off, with mystery/debate/uncertainty over who done it is more likely than what a conventional strike would look like.  Another way that I find more likely is one country hacking another's weapons systems and getting them to nuke themselves.
.
Both scenarios, however unlikely, are absolutely less % chance of "mutually assured destruction."  Both have deniability built in. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 16, 2023, 06:12:33 PM

Fleetwood Haymarket 

  · Lincoln, NE  ·
Let’s taco ‘bout this weekends dinner special! Branzino Fish Tacos— fried Branzino, crispy jicama, avocado, citrus slaw, sweet pepper aioli, lime, and cilantro rice with black beans and corn. For the drink special this weekend we are bringing back an old happy hour fan favorite, the Fleetwater! Made with house infused jalapeño tequila, Topo Chico seltzer, and house made sour! (Can’t forget the tajin rim🤤)


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/354543297_226913036788825_3091776525323789_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=4yevoHjU770AX9wQj9l&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCq2mLWUUK1Nq-ky0pX9A_wla8vwLk1ovdsrRRFgwd6Fw&oe=64920E78)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 17, 2023, 08:04:35 AM

But Russia had no need to resort to nuclear weapons for now, said Putin, signalling no change in Moscow's nuclear posture which only envisages such a move if the existence of the Russian state is threatened.

"Nuclear weapons have been made to ensure our security in the broadest sense of the word and the existence of the Russian state, but we...have no such need (to use them)," Putin said.

But he said talks with the West to reduce Russia's vast nuclear arsenal, the world's largest, were a non-starter.

"Just talking about this (the potential use of nuclear weapons) lowers the nuclear threshold. We have more than NATO countries and they want to reduce our numbers. Screw them," said Putin.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 17, 2023, 08:42:47 AM

seems he may be thinking logically, for now

good for him

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 17, 2023, 09:48:52 AM

If he had been thinking logically at any point during the last two years, he wouldn't have invaded Ukraine, and Russia wouldn't find themselves in the jam they're in. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 17, 2023, 10:02:50 AM

It's hard for dickfaces to think logically.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on June 17, 2023, 10:06:46 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 16, 2023, 05:59:23 PM

Russia-Ukraine aside, I don't think big, obvious county-vs-country war is a thing anymore, when it comes to the top handful of countries.
.
That's why I find it more likely 1 nuke is slipped in and set off, with mystery/debate/uncertainty over who done it is more likely than what a conventional strike would look like.  Another way that I find more likely is one country hacking another's weapons systems and getting them to nuke themselves.
.
Both scenarios, however unlikely, are absolutely less % chance of "mutually assured destruction."  Both have deniability built in.

I vaguely recall that any nuclear blast leaves a signature that can be traced back to its origins. Each source of plutonium has different combinations of isotopes and heavy elements that gives away its source. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2023, 10:07:19 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on June 17, 2023, 09:48:52 AM

If he had been thinking logically at any point during the last two years, he wouldn't have invaded Ukraine, and Russia wouldn't find themselves in the jam they're in.

I think "everyone" thought Russian forces would blow through to Kyiv and replace Z as President in short order.  That would have been pretty logical for Putin to think so, then it's fait accompli for the West, he has a friendly government in Ukraine, probably some resistance here and there in the western parts, and a done deal as it were.  Nobody much reacted over Crimea.  Had it been fast as expected, it would have worked.  He would have faced some sanctions no doubt, big deal.

Now we may have a static war with minor gains at great cost for each side.  Russia had plenty of time to create a layered defense suitable for conscripts to hold most of it.

Ukraine's counteroffensive is now underway. Here's what's happened so far | CNN

 (https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/17/europe/ukraine-counteroffensive-explained-hnk-intl/index.html)I think Putin's gambit now is to control what he has and create a new border with a hostile rump of Ukraine next door.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on June 17, 2023, 10:10:20 AM

Btw I can’t move my data to any kind of personal cloud either. I’ll probably have to end up emailing it to myself to get any personal data off my pc, which as you know sending attachments via email is not secure. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2023, 10:14:18 AM

Mundi the elephant finds peace in a southwest Georgia preserve | WFSU News (https://news.wfsu.org/wfsu-local-news/2023-06-09/mundi-the-elephant-finds-peace-in-a-southwest-georgia-preserve)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 17, 2023, 12:12:17 PM

Chinese Restaurant Owner Retiring To Spend Less Time With Family | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/chinese-restaurant-owner-retiring-to-spend-less-time-with-family?utm_source=The Babylon Bee)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 17, 2023, 05:55:31 PM

Quote from: Gigem on June 17, 2023, 10:06:46 AM

I vaguely recall that any nuclear blast leaves a signature that can be traced back to its origins. Each source of plutonium has different combinations of isotopes and heavy elements that gives away its source.

Right, but you can claim it was lost or stolen when it's not fired from your silos or subs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 18, 2023, 07:18:07 AM

If anyone asked me in say 1980 the odds a nuke would be detonated in anger by 2023, I'd have said "near 100%".  I thought we were running out of oil also.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 18, 2023, 08:53:49 AM

yes, gasoline rationing in the 70's - national speed limit of 55mph to save gasoline and lives

killer bees, the next ice age, Watergate, inflation, higher interest rates

the 60s were probably worse - race riots, Cuban missile crisis, assassination of Kennedy

The future doesn't scare me, maybe it should

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 18, 2023, 08:56:29 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 18, 2023, 08:53:49 AM

The future doesn't scare me, maybe it should

If it did any good, I'd be scared.  The national debt thing worries me coupled with the incompetents we have in DC.  China worries me. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 18, 2023, 09:00:43 AM

the national debt and threats of social security being wiped out because of it scared me into retirement savings in the early 80s

now not much talk about either

China scares me for the long run, but I don't have much farther to run.  30 years??

We've had incompetents in DC since the 60s

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 18, 2023, 09:08:33 AM

I think we had some "competents" in Congress back in the day, a few of them, enough to matter at times, folks like Sam Nunn who I liked quite a bit.  Some others were willing to compromise, Tip O'Neill and Reagan for example.  

My theory is both parties have learned they do better by keeping us polarized, and the presence of social media and the national "news" media contribute a lot to that.  If "we" are convinced we must HATE DESPISE LOATHE the other Party, we donate/volunteer/vote for "our team", and we don't want ANY compromise that could help the other team.  It's like OSU-UM in a sense, you WANT the other team to lose every game.

I see folks on FB constantly deriding the other side (and ignoring the problems with their side), same on any other social media I might see.  I think "we" used to be 15% on each side die hard partisan, and now it's closer to 30% on each side.  They'd poke a stick in their own eye if they thought it would harm the other Side.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 18, 2023, 09:27:44 AM

it's embarrassing 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 18, 2023, 09:43:41 AM

in other news.........

I'm hitting the golf course with both Daughters at 2pm

Happy Father's day to me and all youse other Dads out there.

Enjoy the Day!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 18, 2023, 09:55:25 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 18, 2023, 09:43:41 AM

in other news.........

I'm hitting the golf course with both Daughters at 2pm

Happy Father's day to me and all youse other Dads out there.

Enjoy the Day!

My son beat me for the first time yesterday. Granted, I was playing like absolute trash all day. He certainly didn't beat me at my best, or even at my "okay". But he won. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 18, 2023, 10:04:24 AM

he might have had more fun than you, but that's OK

I've played with each daughter a few times in the past.  Not both.

They're recreational golfers.  We will probably just play 9.  Youngest daughter said she got 2 pars last time out.

the new son-in-law is coming along.  I could probably beat their 3-man scramble team today.

it'll be fun

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 18, 2023, 10:05:02 AM

NOT my daughter

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/354574195_6947500021956531_8563383078767428619_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=0dCsz2nuyxIAX-vz6ra&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCJnSEjW1WVfpodGmRrRkfq7xhGmG3R5ykleT-ucxplnw&oe=6494AF65)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 18, 2023, 10:53:33 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 18, 2023, 10:05:02 AM

NOT my daughter

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/354574195_6947500021956531_8563383078767428619_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=0dCsz2nuyxIAX-vz6ra&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCJnSEjW1WVfpodGmRrRkfq7xhGmG3R5ykleT-ucxplnw&oe=6494AF65)

I'm sure you'd let her call you daddy... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 18, 2023, 11:02:53 AM

$Suger daddy$

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 18, 2023, 12:16:55 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 17, 2023, 10:02:50 AM

It's hard for dickfaces to think logically.

Dickface indeed.  Russia (like China) already had a huge population decline issue, that dickface putin has only exacerbated by wasting over a hundred thousand lives from the most needed age/demo.  That doesn't even count the 700,000+ that have fled to avoid conscription or further serving in a totalitarian slave state they don't agree with.  And the brain drain has been massive and likely permanent.

Any possibility of Russia participating in the civilized world has been sacrificed for generations.

Couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch of shitsticks.  Russia is a barbarian terrorist state, and it always has been.  Good riddance.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 18, 2023, 03:42:23 PM

Happy Fathers Day to all of you dads here.

Hope your being spoiled today.

👍😊

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2023, 04:13:11 PM

Quote from: utee94 on June 18, 2023, 12:16:55 PM

Dickface indeed.  Russia (like China) already had a huge population decline issue, that dickface putin has only exacerbated by wasting over a hundred thousand lives from the most needed age/demo.  That doesn't even count the 700,000+ that have fled to avoid conscription or further serving in a totalitarian slave state they don't agree with.  And the brain drain has been massive and likely permanent.

Any possibility of Russia participating in the civilized world has been sacrificed for generations.

Couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch of shitsticks.  Russia is a barbarian terrorist state, and it always has been.  Good riddance.

I am curious to know, is your family heritage of Ukrainian or Baltic origin? Because this just seems like an irrational sweeping generalization that has some sort of inherit anti-Russian bias built in. Putin can be a bad guy and his invasion illegal and a crime, but that doesn't mean that entire country is and always has been a "barbarian terrorist state". 

The Russian federation has only existed for a little over 30 years, and if you want to compare it's record of war, death, and destruction over the last 30 years alone vs the United States' record, well buddy, I have got news for you, they are fkn waaaaaay behind the US. If Russia is a barbarian terrorist state as you say, then what is the US? Because quite frankly, the Russians ain't got jack shit on us when it comes to invading, bombing, occupying, and destroying countries. The US is BY FAR the worlds greatest terrorist. No one in the world overthrows govt's it doesn't like, bombs & blows people up in other countries, runs world wide rendition & torture rings, assassination programs, spreads harmful disinformation/misinformation campaigns better than the US govt. Literally no one. If Russia is a barbarian terrorist state, then the US has like a PHD in that sh&t and are the Michael Jordan of war, death, and destruction.

If you want to go back and drag up crimes of the Russian Empire in the 17th, 18th or 19th century, well seems a little silly to do so as pretty much every empire from those days were basically heinously evil.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 18, 2023, 04:22:52 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/horZQD3.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2023, 04:27:45 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 16, 2023, 09:06:01 AM

I'd rather the US and NATO not be involved in the proxy-war crap. Ukraine, to me, is not worth it.

It's a corrupt country that offers little to nothing to the West, except corruption opportunities and grain.

If the US and NATO really wanted to make an impact, it could have taken down Russia. Now it's too late for that.

the US is using Ukraine in an attempt to exhaust and bleed Russia dry and get rid of Putin. Top level officials like Hillary Clinton, Lloyd Austin, Victoria Nuland, and Anthony Blinken have basically come out and admitted as much and said the quiet part out loud numerous times. these people are scumbags, and when a scumbag tells you they are scumbags, well, you should listen. 

US does not give two sh!ts about the people of Ukraine, democracy, or freedom. Ukraine has become less democratic, more corrupt, and more authoritarian since Zelensky took office and Ukraine has virtually been destroyed because of this awful horrific war. US doesn't care about any of that crap, it's all bs word salad propaganda to pretend like they are the good guys. Like EVERY other empire since the beginning of time it deals only in self interest. The psychopaths that actually run this country want to bleed Russia dry, get rid of Putin, and launder billions of dollars to US arms manufacturers and they don't give a single fk if Ukraine is turned into rubble in the process.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2023, 04:30:23 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 16, 2023, 09:17:40 AM

I fail to see any vital US Strategic interest in who controls Ukraine. Apart from that, while Russia's conventional military appears to be a bit of a paper tiger, they remain a nuclear power and I am adamantly opposed to risking nuclear war over something that simply is not important to the US.

there is none. Obama openly talked about/admitted as much back in many interviews/private meetings in 2014-2016. you can read transcripts of them....they are fascinating. As many problems as I had with Obama, seems like he was the last somewhat competent, intelligent president we've had. Trump talked a big game but largely didn't deliver and couldn't keep his mouth shut and get out of his own way, and Biden is a corrupt incompetent dweeb who was a moron even before he lost his marbles. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2023, 04:35:24 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 16, 2023, 10:12:19 AM

Exactly.

When the USSR fell, I kinda said to myself, "wow, this is great".

Then I pondered the idea of instead of one corrupt country, now we have 25.

Yeah, that's great...

And instead of rolling back military expansion and getting a peacetime dividend with "the great enemy" now defeated....the US put the military on fking steroids and expanded NATO 1,000 miles eastward right up to Russia's door step.

Even George Kennan, the godfather and architect of US's cold war containment policy- said that NATO expansion was one of the greatest mistakes in US history. In fact he flat out said it was "the most fateful error of American policy in the entire post-Cold War era."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2023, 04:37:38 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 16, 2023, 11:57:56 AM

I think the other interest is to bleed Russia dry and get rid of Putin.  "We" are putting in "money" basically and Russia is putting in troops.  Ukraine is our mercenary force.

this is exactly what it is....and high ranking US govt officials like Hillary Clinton, Lloyd Austin, Victoria Nuland, and Ant-ny Blinkin have come out and said as much. Even the US President has, when Biden stated repeatedly that Putin has to go. Of course the White House walked that back....but when these scumbags come out with the truth every once in awhile and let it slip....we should believe them. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 18, 2023, 04:45:47 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 18, 2023, 10:05:02 AM

NOT my daughter

Ya right,whatever

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 18, 2023, 04:53:43 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 18, 2023, 03:42:23 PM

Happy Fathers Day to all of you dads here.

Hope your being spoiled today.

👍😊

They're all asleep by now tuckered out from standing in line for the early bird senior specials

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 18, 2023, 06:18:02 PM

I'm awake and watching the Open
not rooting for Rory
an American needs to win

only played the front nine with the kids
Oldest daughter didn't play - shoulder blade injury

I bogied the first two, parred the last 7 - 38
amazing while trying to keep pace of play

Was a good day with the kids
there was beer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 18, 2023, 06:27:33 PM

Shot 80 today. 2 good chances on 17 and 18 to make par for the 79.  Just didn’t make the putt. 

BBQ ribs, mashed taters, corn on the cob- all after several Bourbons. (basil Hayden)

Cheesecake w fresh strawberries coming soon while watching the Open.  

Great Day.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 18, 2023, 06:33:54 PM

great day - Corngrats

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 18, 2023, 08:25:36 PM

How does a person pick a favorite golfer?  I've asked this about picking a favorite NASCAR driver, but didn't get a satisfying answer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 18, 2023, 08:44:38 PM

I picked Phil Mickelson back in the day cause of his first name.  He was also a Callaway guy.  I play Callaway drivers and fairway woods.  He plays fearless.  Doesn't lay up much.  And he played at ASU where my brother was working on his masters.

I root for Americans to win the US Open and the British Open.  Not rooting for Rory this afternoon.

I did play Cleveland Irons, but do play Cleveland wedges, so. brand

Not many players use Mizuno irons, but I do

Maybe the state they were born in or the college they played for.
I root for Zach Johnson cause he's from Iowa and played at Drake.

Maybe you were a Nike fan because of Air Jordan.  Root for the guy with the Nike hat and shirt.

Or just root for someone cause your buddy doesn't like them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 18, 2023, 08:47:19 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 18, 2023, 08:25:36 PM

How does a person pick a favorite golfer?  I've asked this about picking a favorite NASCAR driver, but didn't get a satisfying answer.

I assume you watch them and like something about how they operate. 

Same way you might like a random CFB player, but not necessarily their team

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 18, 2023, 09:32:05 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 18, 2023, 08:25:36 PM

How does a person pick a favorite golfer?  I've asked this about picking a favorite NASCAR driver, but didn't get a satisfying answer.

I hate golf and know nothing about it. I imagine it’s the same way people pick their favorite athletes in any sport…they just like the person or their game….

John Daly is my favorite golfer just bc he’s crazy and wild as hell….stories of his degeneracy are legendary.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 18, 2023, 09:46:00 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 18, 2023, 04:13:11 PM

I am curious to know, is your family heritage of Ukrainian or Baltic origin? Because this just seems like an irrational sweeping generalization that has some sort of inherit anti-Russian bias built in. Putin can be a bad guy and his invasion illegal and a crime, but that doesn't mean that entire country is and always has been a "barbarian terrorist state".

The Russian federation has only existed for a little over 30 years, and if you want to compare it's record of war, death, and destruction over the last 30 years alone vs the United States' record, well buddy, I have got news for you, they are fkn waaaaaay behind the US. If Russia is a barbarian terrorist state as you say, then what is the US? Because quite frankly, the Russians ain't got jack shit on us when it comes to invading, bombing, occupying, and destroying countries. The US is BY FAR the worlds greatest terrorist. No one in the world overthrows govt's it doesn't like, bombs & blows people up in other countries, runs world wide rendition & torture rings, assassination programs, spreads harmful disinformation/misinformation campaigns better than the US govt. Literally no one. If Russia is a barbarian terrorist state, then the US has like a PHD in that sh&t and are the Michael Jordan of war, death, and destruction.

If you want to go back and drag up crimes of the Russian Empire in the 17th, 18th or 19th century, well seems a little silly to do so as pretty much every empire from those days were basically heinously evil.

I'm 8th generation Texan but my primary ancestry is Irish, Scots-Irish, English, and a little bit of French.

You really need to re-think where you're getting your "news" because all you're currently capable of doing is reciting Kremlin propaganda over and over and over again.  I can't tell if this is a bit, or if you're really this gullible.  I hope it's a bit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 18, 2023, 10:09:31 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 18, 2023, 08:44:38 PM

I picked Phil Mickelson back in the day cause of his first name.  He was also a Callaway guy.  I play Callaway drivers and fairway woods.  He plays fearless.  Doesn't lay up much.  And he played at ASU where my brother was working on his masters.

I root for Americans to win the US Open and the British Open.  Not rooting for Rory this afternoon.

I did play Cleveland Irons, but do play Cleveland wedges, so. brand

Not many players use Mizuno irons, but I do

Maybe the state they were born in or the college they played for.
I root for Zach Johnson cause he's from Iowa and played at Drake.

Maybe you were a Nike fan because of Air Jordan.  Root for the guy with the Nike hat and shirt.

Or just root for someone cause your buddy doesn't like them.

Style of play and where he's from, I get.  
Would you compare club company with something like someone from Montana liking a random pro team?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 18, 2023, 10:12:57 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 18, 2023, 08:47:19 PM

I assume you watch them and like something about how they operate.

Same way you might like a random CFB player, but not necessarily their team

I wonder if it's like what % of their great and amazing plays that you see live. 
Like many see Desmond Howard as a sort of NFL bust and clown on GameDay, but I saw his stretched-out diving TD vs ND and his punt return TD vs OSU w/ the pose, so he's a forever legend to me.
.
I bet if you saw a certain player's biggest shots live, you're more likely to be a fan going forward.  Idk, just a shot in the dark.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 18, 2023, 10:14:07 PM

I don't follow golf all that much but I'll root for Longhorn golfers when I recognize they're playing.

And I'm not a big NASCAR guy but back in the day I'd pull for The Intimidator, because I liked his nickname.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 18, 2023, 10:22:03 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 18, 2023, 10:09:31 PM

Style of play and where he's from, I get. 
Would you compare club company with something like someone from Montana liking a random pro team?

I root for guys that drive chevys in NASCAR

back when the #8 car was a red chevy with Budweiser on it, that was my guy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 18, 2023, 11:35:36 PM

Is Ford vs Chevy just a "what did your dad/family drive" thing?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 19, 2023, 06:14:15 AM

many times yes

In my case no

My father was a car guy, Fords and Chevys, no mopars

he owned a 64 Ford Galaxie 500XL when I was growing up

I almost bought a 71 Mercury Cougar as my 1st car but the price was too high

ended up with a 70 Nova SS as the first car.  Been a chevy guy since.

My daughters both own Fords currently

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2023, 07:26:37 AM

My Dad liked GM products, mostly Chevys, but he had a Pontian "LeMans" and that Buick Apollo thing once.  I didn't buy cars nearly as often as he did.  I ran a couple to high mileage before getting more comfortable and able to buy something earlier.  Obviously cars are sinkholes for wealth.

Families back in the day were known for their cars, dentists had Buicks and Doctors had Caddies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 19, 2023, 09:05:46 AM

My dad was always GM. Were I to get a truck it would GM or Toyota.

John Rahm is my player to watch right now, but he's been kinda hurt lately. I also like Scheffler. Calm, cool, collected.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2023, 09:09:36 AM

As a kid, I got to know cars a bit, there weren't that many of them of course.  Our neighbors had an Impala and we had a Belaire, and I envied those who could afford those three tail lights instead of our two, but at least we had a bit of chrome over them, unlike the Biscayne.

I now recall my Dad did have a 1961ish Ford Falcon at some point.  Maybe his notion was to have a go to work vehicle.  It didn't stay around long.  I recall our first car with air conditioning was a 1965 Malibu.  That was a real treat back in the day.  My 1968 Nova had a Sears AC added, and that two speed transmission (Powerglide) which was pretty much crap.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 19, 2023, 09:29:56 AM

During my early childhood my Dad was the general manager at a successful radio station and he got a new company car every year as a free promotional deal from the local dealers who were trying to curry favor.  He grew up without much money and was enamored with the idea of the luxury of Cadillac so that's what he typically got, but he mixed it up too.  One year he got a Thunderbird, like this one.

(https://i.imgur.com/QwBRwV0.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2023, 09:34:36 AM

Near us, two large projects in the background and another one just getting started foreground, said to be the tallest new building in the city in over 20 years and would be fifth tallest in city when finished, condos and apts and some office space on first ten floors or so, I personally wouldn't be building office space.  The ground is red clay covering granite not far below the surface, good for foundations I reckon.

(https://i.imgur.com/SF0cveH.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 19, 2023, 07:36:07 PM

Ford and Chevy.  Coke and Pepsi.  It's all the same stuff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 20, 2023, 12:58:02 AM

The TV show “righteous gemstones,” it’s good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2023, 08:17:50 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 19, 2023, 07:36:07 PM

Ford and Chevy.  Coke and Pepsi.  It's all the same stuff.

Chevy = Pepsi => Equally good

Ford = Coke => Meh

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2023, 08:27:04 AM

I have not had a Pepsi in ages, they always seemed too sweet to me.  I avoid soft drinks in general, but I will have a Coke a couple times in summer.

The "World of Coca Cola" is modestly entertaining.  The CFB HoF is pretty well done I thought, even my wife enjoyed it.  (She thinks I'm a nut about CFB ...).

Years ago I did a tour of CNN that was quite interesting, at that time.  I did it again a bit later with friends and it was meh.  I read that CNN has moved from that area to up nearer me.  I don't know what's going on with their old building.

It's funny how our tastes change over time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2023, 08:35:22 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/aaRCIg4.png)

Yup.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2023, 08:37:24 AM

Kinda reminds me that I need to clean my desk. It looks like real life.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2023, 08:40:31 AM

Bad intentions.

China is muscling into power across America’s underbelly (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-is-muscling-into-power-across-america-s-underbelly/ar-AA1cLrwW?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=25b4e8d87d864db6bb63f1cf5f25c6a7&ei=15)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2023, 08:42:23 AM

Amazon HQ2 is not matching original hype. Economy is partly to blame (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/20/amazon-hq2-is-not-matching-original-hype-economy-is-partly-to-blame.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2023, 09:10:01 AM

“From a long view of the history of mankind, seen from, say, ten thousand years from now, there can be little doubt that the most significant event of the 19th century will be judged as Maxwell's discovery of the laws of electrodynamics. The American Civil War will pale into provincial insignificance in comparison with this important scientific event of the same decade.”

― Richard Feynman

Maxwell's equations have been termed as the second great unification since Newton combining mathematically for the first time electricity and magnetism into a classical theory of electromagnetism;

1)∇.D = ρ
2)∇.B = 0
3)∇xE = -∂B/∂t
4)∇xH = J +∂D/∂t

Happy birthday to one of the brilliant minds in history, mathematician James Clerk Maxwell who was born on this day, 13th June 1831 in Edinburgh, Scotland.

(https://i.imgur.com/PEnOyUo.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2023, 09:12:01 AM

Ukraine counteroffensive proving tough as Russia mounts resistance (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/20/ukraine-counteroffensive-proving-tough-as-russia-mounts-resistance.html)

Smells like WW One ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2023, 09:57:48 AM

Hunter Biden agrees to plead guilty in federal tax, gun case | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hunter-biden-agrees-plead-guilty-federal-tax-gun-case)

Hunter Biden to plead guilty to federal tax, gun charges | The Hill (https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4058134-hunter-biden-to-plead-guilty-to-federal-tax-gun-charges/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2023, 10:03:45 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2023, 08:40:31 AM

Bad intentions.

China is muscling into power across America’s underbelly (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-is-muscling-into-power-across-america-s-underbelly/ar-AA1cLrwW?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=25b4e8d87d864db6bb63f1cf5f25c6a7&ei=15)

And now this. Chinese troops 100 miles away from our border?


https://www.wsj.com/articles/beijing-plans-a-new-training-facility-in-cuba-raising-prospect-of-chinese-troops-on-americas-doorstep-e17fd5d1?st=pm1i0iwrs4jzup6&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2023, 10:23:32 AM

Report: Cumberland area is Atlanta's latest boomtown | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/cumberland-metro-latest-boomtown-report-cushman-wakefield)

As is known, the Braves moved from downtown to Cobb County (to probably the worst traffic area in the metro area).  Apparently it's working in a sense of greater economic development in that area now.  I was dubious, and getting to that ballpark today is just a mess, no rapid transit at all, there is a bus that goes out there I've yet to try.

There currently are no plans at all for any rapid transit expansion anywhere in this region.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 20, 2023, 10:44:52 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2023, 10:03:45 AM

And now this. Chinese troops 100 miles away from our border?


https://www.wsj.com/articles/beijing-plans-a-new-training-facility-in-cuba-raising-prospect-of-chinese-troops-on-americas-doorstep-e17fd5d1?st=pm1i0iwrs4jzup6&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

lol, yeah
because Taiwan
duh
.
we've seen this movie before

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2023, 10:46:18 AM

I'm not worried about some training base in Cuba, and there is not a thing we could do about it anyway.

The solution to Cuba, in my opinion, is Hilton/Marriot/Sheraton, et al.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on June 20, 2023, 10:53:24 AM

https://twitter.com/ATRightMovies/status/1671094709584900096

Jaws is 48 years old (Released OTD in 1975).  Same year I was born.  I can still feel that tingling sensation when swimming in the ocean, or the deep end of the local pool.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2023, 10:55:21 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 20, 2023, 10:44:52 AM

lol, yeah
because Taiwan
duh
.
we've seen this movie before

There is no US base in Taiwan, but I do agree that the US has major presences all over the world.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2023, 10:58:21 AM

Braves History: Tom Glavine ejected for throwing at Dale Murphy - Battery Power (https://www.batterypower.com/2023/6/19/23763417/atlanta-braves-history-tom-glavine-ejected-for-throwing-at-dale-murphy)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 20, 2023, 11:09:37 AM

Quote from: Gigem on June 20, 2023, 10:53:24 AM

https://twitter.com/ATRightMovies/status/1671094709584900096

Jaws is 48 years old (Released OTD in 1975).  Same year I was born.  I can still feel that tingling sensation when swimming in the ocean, or the deep end of the local pool. 

Me too on all of this. Born in 1975, still scared of that damn shark.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on June 20, 2023, 11:20:19 AM

I really don't remember the 70's pe se, but I can still remember the effect that they had on us well into the 80's.  Growing up in the 80's was really a special time IMO because we were kinda between the old world and entering into the new one.  I'm much closer to my kids than my parents were with me because their world was just so different than mine growing up but mine wasn't so different from my kids.  We had video games, computers, big time movies, some of the most prevalent pop culture they have was the same pop culture we had in the 80's (my kids asked me how I knew about Transformers etc).  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2023, 11:22:08 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 20, 2023, 09:57:48 AM

Hunter Biden agrees to plead guilty in federal tax, gun case | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hunter-biden-agrees-plead-guilty-federal-tax-gun-case)

Hunter Biden to plead guilty to federal tax, gun charges | The Hill (https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4058134-hunter-biden-to-plead-guilty-to-federal-tax-gun-charges/)

Slap on the wrist.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 20, 2023, 11:31:20 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 20, 2023, 10:46:18 AM

I'm not worried about some training base in Cuba, and there is not a thing we could do about it anyway.

The solution to Cuba, in my opinion, is Hilton/Marriot/Sheraton, et al.

as long as there are no offensive weapons involved and there is no evidence of governmental control then we do nothing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 20, 2023, 01:09:18 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2023, 11:22:08 AM

Slap on the wrist.

yeah.....he's rich.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 20, 2023, 01:10:38 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2023, 10:55:21 AM

There is no US base in Taiwan, but I do agree that the US has major presences all over the world.

Right.
China could set up bases or whatever on 10 other countries and it would be extremely hypocritical if we freaked out about it.  

We are the ultimate "do as I say, not as I do" entity.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2023, 01:13:25 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 20, 2023, 01:09:18 PM

yeah.....he's rich.

And protected.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2023, 01:13:38 PM

The Chinese in Cuba thing is interesting in terms of media coverage.  One outlet presents it as major calamity.  Others note they've had an intelligence operation there for several years.  None of them have any real details, or explain why this is a travesty that must somehow be stopped.

US confirms China has had a spy base in Cuba since at least 2019 | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/china-cuba-spy-base-us-intelligence-0f655b577ae4141bdbeabc35d628b18f)

China plans a new military training facility in Cuba, Wall Street Journal reports | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/world/china-plans-new-military-training-facility-cuba-wsj-2023-06-20/)

June 20 (Reuters) - China and Cuba are negotiating to establish a new joint military training facility on the island, sparking alarm in the U.S. that it could lead to the stationing of Chinese troops and other security operations just 100 miles off Florida's coast, the Wall Street Journal reported on Tuesday citing current and former U.S officials.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2023, 01:14:09 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 20, 2023, 01:10:38 PM

Right.
China could set up bases or whatever on 10 other countries and it would be extremely hypocritical if we freaked out about it. 

We are the ultimate "do as I say, not as I do" entity.

One promotes freedom.

One does not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 03:42:04 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2023, 01:13:25 PM

And protected.

Not so protected as to not get popped for relatively low level charges. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 03:55:45 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 03:42:04 PM

Not so protected as to not get popped for relatively low level charges.

Plea deal.  Described by NBC as a victory for POTUS.  😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2023, 04:00:01 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 03:42:04 PM

Not so protected as to not get popped for relatively low level charges.

Bogus plea deal.

Would like to know how a crackhead made $1.5 Million. I'd like to think we all would like to know.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 04:06:56 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 03:55:45 PM

Plea deal.  Described by NBC as a victory for POTUS.  😂😂

How insane is it that the president's own kid gets prosecuted and Republicans are clamoring for harsher penalties for low level tax and gun violations?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 04:20:08 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 04:06:56 PM

How insane is it that the president's own kid gets prosecuted and Republicans are clamoring for harsher penalties for low level tax and gun violations?

How insane is it that the President’s son plea deals his way on tax evasion and illegal weapons charges , and the media and Democrats are celebrating?
What does that say about our country?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2023, 04:24:32 PM

Even more insane is that the investigation took 6 years.

OK, moving on.

Now, do the laptop, DOJ. FBI has had it for 30 months. It's time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 04:26:03 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 04:20:08 PM

How insane is it that the President’s son plea deals his way on tax evasion and illegal weapons charges , and the media and Democrats are celebrating?
What does that say about our country?

It says the president's son can get criminal penalties

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 04:26:56 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2023, 04:24:32 PM

Even more insane is that the investigation took 6 years.

OK, moving on.

Now, do the laptop, DOJ. FBI has had it for 30 months. It's time.

Hunter is sort of the right's version of Trump, where the list of his crimes is only limited by their imagination.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2023, 04:32:55 PM

You can't deny there is some pretty damning stuff on that device. You also can't deny it was falsely labeled as Russian disinformation prior to 11/2020.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 04:43:17 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 04:26:56 PM

Hunter is sort of the right's version of Trump, where the list of his crimes is only limited by their imagination.

Sort of the opposite actually. In one case the pursuit of anything, and even to the extent of making things up- by the media and weaponized DOJ, FBI and politicians from the opposing party, have gone on endlessly for well over 7 years.  And, at cost of millions.  The now clearly debunked Russia Russia thing alone cost over 35mil.  

In the other case, hard physical evidence- that NOBODY was looking for, turned up in public.  That same media, DOJ and FBI worked furiously to not pursue it and keep it from the public eye. And you know that.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 20, 2023, 04:58:40 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 04:43:17 PM

Sort of the opposite actually. 

Opposite indeed. Hunter took the advice of his attorneys. Trump has not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2023, 05:01:38 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on June 20, 2023, 04:58:40 PM

Opposite indeed. Hunter took the advice of his attorneys. Trump has not.

Trump takes advice and then fires everyone. :)

It's a clown show.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 05:09:26 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on June 20, 2023, 04:58:40 PM

Opposite indeed. Hunter took the advice of his attorneys. Trump has not.

You know this how?  And which advice was that regarding?  The fake Russia deal? The fake obstruction?  

And of course Hunter took the sweetheart deal that “ his attorneys “ arranged for him.  It’s a deal nobody not named Biden could ever get.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 05:14:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2023, 04:32:55 PM

You can't deny there is some pretty damning stuff on that device. You also can't deny it was falsely labeled as Russian disinformation prior to 11/2020.

I can deny it. Republicans in the house formed a whole committee to turn up these supposed crimes, with nothing to show for it. The DOJ and the house can't find any crimes, but nevertheless...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 05:19:48 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 05:14:07 PM

I can deny it. Republicans in the house formed a whole committee to turn up these supposed crimes, with nothing to show for it. The DOJ and the house can't find any crimes, but nevertheless...

I wonder where they got that idea…..?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2023, 05:22:43 PM

This kind of media crap goes back decades too, by the way.

Remember when the Bush girls were slammed by the media for getting drunk and smoking pot in college?

Now we have a crackhead son and 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 05:26:27 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 05:09:26 PM

You know this how?  And which advice was that regarding?  The fake Russia deal? The fake obstruction? 

And of course Hunter took the sweetheart deal that “ his attorneys “ arranged for him.  It’s a deal nobody not named Biden could ever get. 

What exactly is the theory behind Hunter getting a "sweetheart" deal? It would have been much easier to not charge him at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2023, 05:33:19 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 05:26:27 PM

What exactly is the theory behind Hunter getting a "sweetheart" deal? It would have been much easier to not charge him at all.

Optics. They had to charge him.

DOJ: See, we did it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 05:35:47 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2023, 05:33:19 PM

Optics. They had to charge him.

DOJ: See, we did it.

They did not have too charge him. Who was calling for charges for old tax violations and a weird gun possession charge? Literally no one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 20, 2023, 05:48:13 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 05:09:26 PM

You know this how?  And which advice was that regarding?  The fake Russia deal? The fake obstruction? 

And of course Hunter took the sweetheart deal that “ his attorneys “ arranged for him.  It’s a deal nobody not named Biden could ever get. 

Any defense attorney worth their salt is going to tell their clients to STFU. Instead, Trump has gone on national TV multiple times and admitted to the crimes for which he is charged in federal court. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 06:13:48 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on June 20, 2023, 05:48:13 PM

Any defense attorney worth their salt is going to tell their clients to STFU. Instead, Trump has gone on national TV multiple times and admitted to the crimes for which he is charged in federal court.

Trump is definitely a Pos.  And an idiot. And a loudmouth.  
But he has never admitted to a crime. That might be your interpretation- along with CNN and MSNBC. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2023, 06:17:29 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 05:35:47 PM

They did not have too charge him. Who was calling for charges for old tax violations and a weird gun possession charge? Literally no one.

I saw a lot of folks going on and on and on about the laptop, and the tax situation, and the gun thing.  I don't know what any normal person would get charged with in this, but not paying taxes on two years of income over a million sounds kind of bad to me, tax evasion, Al Capone, whatever.

I would think the tax situation would be pretty "open and shut", as well as the gun violation, I don't think it should take five years.

I could as easily say "they" didn't have to charge Hillary for her server, or Trump for his, um, handling of records as well.  The usual partisan crowd will always call for charging the other side for jaywalking.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 06:23:46 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 20, 2023, 06:17:29 PM

I saw a lot of folks going on and on and on about the laptop, and the tax situation, and the gun thing.  I don't know what any normal person would get charged with in this, but not paying taxes on two years of income over a million sounds kind of bad to me, tax evasion, Al Capone, whatever.

I would think the tax situation would be pretty "open and shut", as well as the gun violation, I don't think it should take five years.

I could as easily say "they" didn't have to charge Hillary for her server, or Trump for his, um, handling of records as well.  The usual partisan crowd will always call for charging the other side for jaywalking.

Well when they raid his home with armed agents -ensuring that the TV cameras coincidentally are there - and then rifle through his wife’s underwear drawer- like they did to Trump-I will view it as equal treatment.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 06:24:08 PM

Quote

I would think the tax situation would be pretty "open and shut", as well as the gun violation, I don't think it should take five years.

One might think, but probably be wrong. Tax charges are notoriously hard to prosecute. What if his record show he didn't owe any taxes? If he has a slightly defensible claim, it is an uphill battle. That's why Trump has never been prosecuted for tax evasion despite some creative ideas about what he owes. Further, the state has to prove that Hunter is a drug addict and lied about, which is also challenging. These are fairly low level charges and got a fairly low level result, and the only remarkable thing is that the charges happened at all. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 06:24:54 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 06:23:46 PM

Well when they raid his home with armed agents -ensuring that the TV cameras coincidentally are there - and then rifle through his wife’s underwear drawer- like they did to Trump-I will view it as equal treatment. 

But they aren't equal crimes. Why would they rifle through Hunter's underwear for 2017 tax charges? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2023, 06:27:07 PM

Wesley Snipes Loses $23.5 Million Tax Case, Offers IRS Tiny 4% Compromise (forbes.com) (https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2018/11/02/wesley-snipes-loses-23-5-million-tax-case-offers-irs-tiny-4-compromise/?sh=29d931d45632)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 06:28:51 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 05:14:07 PM

I can deny it. Republicans in the house formed a whole committee to turn up these supposed crimes, with nothing to show for it. The DOJ and the house can't find any crimes, but nevertheless...

So- you agree they should release the documents and tapes that potentially proof high level bribery and corruption by the Biden family?   Or- your “ can’t find any crimes” rings totally hollow.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 20, 2023, 06:29:47 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 06:13:48 PM

Trump is definitely a Pos.  And an idiot. And a loudmouth. 
But he has never admitted to a crime. That might be your interpretation- along with CNN and MSNBC.

True. He hasn't admitted to a crime. He's basically admitted to the behavior in question, and claims it's not a crime. 

(https://media.tenor.com/5fRvG6jZCMYAAAAC/bold-strategies-cotton.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 06:31:46 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 06:24:54 PM

But they aren't equal crimes. Why would they rifle through Hunter's underwear for 2017 tax charges?

Huh?  You think a disputed charge of having top secret documents warrants an armed raid of a former POTUS, including the former First Lady’s panty drawer.   Wow.  You dudes on the far left have lost all sense of reality.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 06:33:32 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 20, 2023, 06:29:47 PM

True. He hasn't admitted to a crime. He's basically admitted to the behavior in question, and claims it's not a crime.

(https://media.tenor.com/5fRvG6jZCMYAAAAC/bold-strategies-cotton.gif)

That is correct.  And remember- innocent until proven guilty.  Millions of dollars and untold man hours have been dedicated to that end.  No luck so far. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 06:36:16 PM

Typical. 

Proud papa.  Media: Happy

Tribe: denial 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 06:45:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 20, 2023, 06:27:07 PM

Wesley Snipes Loses $23.5 Million Tax Case, Offers IRS Tiny 4% Compromise (forbes.com) (https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2018/11/02/wesley-snipes-loses-23-5-million-tax-case-offers-irs-tiny-4-compromise/?sh=29d931d45632)

The Snipes case is a great example here. Snipes was charged with a felony counts of fraud for failing to to file and pay millions, as well as asking for a seven million dollar refund. He claimed to be a foreign agent (Despite being born in the United States) and eventually at trial claimed he just had "bad advice." He was acquitted of the felony counts and convicted of only misdemeanors for failing to file. His crime was bigger and his claims were bizarre. Not guilty, all the same. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 06:46:51 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 06:36:16 PM

Typical. 

Proud papa.  Media: Happy

Tribe: denial

If the Tribe weren't trying to paint Hunter Biden as some sort of anti-American supervillain, the optics would be worse for him on pleading guilty to federal charges. As it is, Republicans have to own goal on this one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2023, 06:51:26 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 06:45:34 PM

The Snipes case is a great example here. Snipes was charged with a felony counts of fraud for failing to to file and pay millions, as well as asking for a seven million dollar refund. He claimed to be a foreign agent (Despite being born in the United States) and eventually at trial claimed he just had "bad advice." He was acquitted of the felony counts and convicted of only misdemeanors for failing to file. His crime was bigger and his claims were bizarre. Not guilty, all the same.

He was found guilty of misdemeanor tax evasion and served three years.  His case went to trial of course, which usually results in the hammer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 06:58:04 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 20, 2023, 06:51:26 PM

He was found guilty of misdemeanor tax evasion and served three years.  His case went to trial of course, which usually results in the hammer.

He was found guilty of misdemeanor counts of failing to file a tax return - a much easier case to prove. I'm unclear what exactly Hunter is admitting to - the news reports just say failing to pay taxes, though he has apparently paid them now. If he filed returns, well, that weakens the government's case even further. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 06:59:54 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 06:31:46 PM

Huh?  You think a disputed charge of having top secret documents warrants an armed raid of a former POTUS, including the former First Lady’s panty drawer.  Wow.  You dudes on the far left have lost all sense of reality. 

I mean...yes. If someone has property that isn't theirs and the refuse to return it, an armed raid is probably going to follow. That's the government's way of getting things they want. To say that it's "unfair" that they didn't also raid Hunter's home doesn't make any sense.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 07:04:28 PM

Anyways, I think it is pretty obvious that these charges were only brought to appease Republicans who are mad that Trump got charged with anything. This would not have been brought against a normal person.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 07:05:56 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 06:46:51 PM

If the Tribe weren't trying to paint Hunter Biden as some sort of anti-American supervillain, the optics would be worse for him on pleading guilty to federal charges. As it is, Republicans have to own goal on this one.

Not so much.    If they get their hands on what the DOJ refuses to give them- then yes.  

and the Hypocrisy of even bringing up a political party ( and the assistants in the DOJ, FBI, Media)trying to paint someone as a supervillain- wow. You have grapefruits to even utter such a thing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 07:09:42 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 07:04:28 PM

Anyways, I think it is pretty obvious that these charges were only brought to appease Republicans who are mad that Trump got charged with anything. This would not have been brought against a normal person.

I think the exact opposite. I couldn’t care less about that moron Trump.  I want to see equal treatment under the law. We are so far from that now with this administration.  It’s a joke.  

He is obviously guilty of Major tax evasion and pleaded it down to a misdemeanor.   If it was Trumps son it would be hard prison time.  I think you know that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 07:09:54 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 07:05:56 PM

Not so much.    If they get their hands on what the DOJ refuses to give them- then yes. 

and the Hypocrisy of even bringing up a political party ( and the assistants in the DOJ, FBI, Media)trying to paint someone as a supervillain- wow. You have grapefruits to even utter such a thing.

The truth requires grapefruits, I suppose.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 07:12:55 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 07:09:54 PM

The truth requires grapefruits, I suppose.

You go right ahead and cling to your truth. :banghead:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 07:23:42 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 07:09:42 PM

He is obviously guilty of Major tax evasion and pleaded it down to a misdemeanor.  If it was Trumps son it would be hard prison time.  I think you know that.

This is fantasy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 20, 2023, 07:24:41 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 07:09:42 PM

If it was Trumps son it would be hard prison time.

While Trump was in office? 

Nah, I think it'd be an immediate pardon. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 07:32:53 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 07:23:42 PM

This is fantasy

Oh my.  Your something.   

ok. He took the plea deal because he was innocent. 
  

cool story 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 07:33:32 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 20, 2023, 07:24:41 PM

While Trump was in office?

Nah, I think it'd be an immediate pardon.

Trump is not in office.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 20, 2023, 07:34:51 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 07:09:42 PM

I think the exact opposite. I couldn’t care less about that moron Trump.  I want to see equal treatment under the law. We are so far from that now with this administration.  It’s a joke. 

He is obviously guilty of Major tax evasion and pleaded it down to a misdemeanor.  If it was Trumps son it would be hard prison time.  I think you know that.

Right.  
THIS administration.
The previous one was SO even.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 07:38:45 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 07:32:53 PM

Oh my.  Your something. 

ok. He took the plea deal because he was innocent.
 

cool story

I don't know all the facts. Nor do you. But there is little indication that the government had an airtight case. If so, they could have brought it years ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 07:40:07 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 07:33:32 PM

Trump is not in office. 

Yes. That is the point. He's saying it is unlikely that Trump would have allowed a conviction to stand against his own kid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 20, 2023, 07:40:43 PM

Everything HB agrees with is a fact.
Everything he disagrees with is a corrupt conspiracy.
Ho-hum.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 07:44:07 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 07:40:07 PM

Yes. That is the point. He's saying it is unlikely that Trump would have allowed a conviction to stand against his own kid.

Which is a nice- but totally unrelated straw man.

you made the point that in you opinion Hunter was only charged because he is who he is.  

I disagreed- saying he was treated with kid gloves because he is who he is.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 07:47:02 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 20, 2023, 07:40:43 PM

Everything HB agrees with is a fact.
Everything he disagrees with is a corrupt conspiracy.
Ho-hum.

I thought you would have learned your lesson by now about the futility of joining adult conversations?
And by start with false statements and insults?


So Antifro- which is a conspiracy theory, the claim that the only reason Hunter Biden was charged is to appease Republicans who are in favor of Trump?

That’s the only conspiracy that’s been floating so far and I am the one argument against it.

step up your game if you’re going to try to keep up with the adults

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 20, 2023, 08:02:50 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 07:33:32 PM

Trump is not in office. 

True. But Biden isn't going to pardon Hunter. 

If Biden pardons Hunter, I'll eat my words. 

(Bearing in mind that POTUS can only pardon federal charges, and I'm assuming that the tax evasion charges at the very least are federal, so they're within his purview.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 08:08:26 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 20, 2023, 08:02:50 PM

True. But Biden isn't going to pardon Hunter.

If Biden pardons Hunter, I'll eat my words.

(Bearing in mind that POTUS can only pardon federal charges, and I'm assuming that the tax evasion charges at the very least are federal, so they're within his purview.)

Agreed.  Never thought that or implied it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 07:42:17 AM

The penalty is, I presume, to pay back taxes and a fine of some sort, right?  I know that is typically what happens if you "forget" some income and they catch it.  Now, "forgetting" over a million in two years running is a bit different.  Anyway, I don't see what a pardon would accomplish here, it's not a felony conviction.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 21, 2023, 07:57:48 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 20, 2023, 08:02:50 PM

True. But Biden isn't going to pardon Hunter.

If Biden pardons Hunter, I'll eat my words.

(Bearing in mind that POTUS can only pardon federal charges, and I'm assuming that the tax evasion charges at the very least are federal, so they're within his purview.)

Pics or it didn't happen ;D why not you post them when your eating everything else

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 21, 2023, 07:59:42 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 05:26:27 PM

What exactly is the theory behind Hunter getting a "sweetheart" deal? It would have been much easier to not charge him at all.

or waterboard him

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2023, 08:02:17 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 05:35:47 PM

They did not have too charge him. Who was calling for charges for old tax violations and a weird gun possession charge? Literally no one.

With this admin? A weird gun charge?

The only thing weird about the charge, under this mega whacko anti-gun administration is that he isn't gonna do ten years.

...


I have an IRS story from when I first went into business and made a couple of mistakes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 21, 2023, 08:03:45 AM

Bob Huggins resigns as West Virginia coach in wake of arrest

Bob Huggins has resigned as the men's basketball coach at West Virginia (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/277/west-virginia-mountaineers) in the wake of his arrest Friday night (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/37868394/west-virginia-bob-huggins-booked-dui-charge-pittsburgh) for allegedly driving under the influence.

Huggins announced he was stepping down in a statement Saturday night in which he said, "My recent actions do not represent the values of the University or the leadership expected in this role. ... I have let all of you -- and myself -- down."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 21, 2023, 08:28:55 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 20, 2023, 07:32:53 PM

Oh my.  Your something. 

ok. He took the plea deal because he was innocent.
 

cool story

Do you think innocent people don’t take plea deals?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 21, 2023, 08:32:37 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 21, 2023, 08:28:55 AM

Do you think innocent people don’t take plea deals?

Of course they do.  But in this case- nobody, including HB himself, or his attorneys- has even tried to claim innocence.  In fact- quite the opposite.   They admit lying on the gun paperwork- and that is an irrefutable document.  They admit he didn’t pay taxes he owed.   There is no dispute there.   
Why are we playing this silly ass game?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 21, 2023, 08:44:11 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 21, 2023, 08:32:37 AM

Of course they do.  But in this case- nobody, including HB himself, or his attorneys- has even tried to claim innocence.  In fact- quite the opposite.  They admit lying on the gun paperwork- and that is an irrefutable document.  They admit he didn’t pay taxes he owed.  There is no dispute there. 
Why are we playing this silly ass game?

I mean, I’m just gaging you one’s feel for all this. 

But you’re right, most of this is silly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on June 21, 2023, 08:59:34 AM

Biden's DoJ has had a major hard on for firearm violations yet HB walks?  Lying on that form is a felony.  If you did it, you would go to prison.  Same likely goes for intentionally not declaring over a million in income and not paying taxes on it for years.  We live under a two tier justice system.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 21, 2023, 09:00:44 AM

Crazy  people would take hrs to dive on a cursed wreck. Hope things end well but right now it's not looking positive


https://abcnews.go.com/International/live-updates/missing-titanic-tourist-submersible/us-coast-guard-commander-talks-search-for-missing-sub-100226865?id=100224153

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 21, 2023, 09:40:46 AM

Tourists 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 21, 2023, 09:41:28 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on June 21, 2023, 08:59:34 AM

Biden's DoJ has had a major hard on for firearm violations yet HB walks?  Lying on that form is a felony.  If you did it, you would go to prison.  

It's worth noting, based on a recent Supreme Court decision, that particular charge likely doesn't survive appeal. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 09:52:20 AM

Predictably, every commentary I read about Hunter's plea deal is partisan.  I personally can't tell if he got favorable treatment.  I don't know of any near parallel in history.  I am curious if he failed to report $1.5 million twice how he only owes something around $100,000 or so.  The taxes on earned income of $3 million would be much higher than that, maybe it's the amount he didn't pay or the fine, or interest, it's not clear to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 10:44:24 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on June 21, 2023, 08:59:34 AM

Biden's DoJ has had a major hard on for firearm violations yet HB walks?  Lying on that form is a felony.  If you did it, you would go to prison.  Same likely goes for intentionally not declaring over a million in income and not paying taxes on it for years.  We live under a two tier justice system.

Unlikely. A lot of feds I've read are noting they have never seen that charge by itself before. Usually it's something they throw in with a batch of other charges in various drug dealing cases.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 10:50:40 AM

Federal Prosecutors Aggressively Pursuing Those Who Lie in Connection With Firearm Transactions | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (atf.gov) (https://www.atf.gov/news/pr/federal-prosecutors-aggressively-pursuing-those-who-lie-connection-firearm-transactions#:~:text=This Form requires buyers to,10 years in federal prison.)

• EDDIE WAYNE MORRISON, 34 of Duncan, Oklahoma, was sentenced to time-served, or essentially 16 months in federal custody, on December 29, 2022, for making a false statement during the purchase of a firearm.  According to public record, Morrison purchased a firearm from EZ Pawn in Duncan.  Prior to purchasing a firearm, Morrison had been deemed incompetent by a court.  He was also subject to a protective order in Love County.  A judge had ordered Morrison detained in federal custody since August 12, 2021, until sentencing.  He is currently serving a term of two years of supervised release.

• HALEY LEEANNE ADKISON, 24, of Oklahoma City, pleaded guilty on August 18, 2022, to making a false statement during a firearms transaction.  According to public record, Adkison was observed completing paperwork regarding the purchase of firearms at an Oklahoma City Fairgrounds gun show, after looking at different firearms with Heriberto Flores.  Adkison was scheduled to take possession of six firearms at the vendor’s store in Tulsa, Oklahoma.  At sentencing, Adkison faces up to ten years in federal prison. 

• JOSHUA DAVID MOSELEY, 31, of Harrah, Oklahoma, pleaded guilty on September 6, 2022, to making a false statement during the purchase of a firearm.  According to public record, Moseley attempted to purchase a firearm from Super Pawn #2 Inc., in Oklahoma City.  Moseley checked “no” for having been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.  Public records show that, on January 6, 2022, Mosely was convicted of misdemeanor domestic assault and battery in Oklahoma County District Court case CM-2021-1377.  At sentencing, Moseley faces up to 10 years in federal prison. 
• BRIONJRE MARTAI ODELL HAMILTON, 22, of Oklahoma City, pleaded guilty on October 10, 2022, to making false statements during attempted purchases of firearms.  According to public record, on May 25, 2022, Hamilton was convicted of carrying a firearm under the influence of drugs (marijuana) in Oklahoma County District Court case CM-2021-3533.  Thereafter, records reflect Hamilton lied on the ATF Form 4473 regarding his eligibility to purchase firearms and attempted to purchase firearms on four separate occasions, after the ATF informed Hamilton that he was a prohibited from doing so.  At sentencing, Hamilton faces up to 10 years in federal prison on all four counts.
• NEMORY ZAHID RAMOS CASTRO, 22, of Oklahoma City, pleaded guilty on January 5, 2023, for making a false statement during the purchase of a firearm.  According to public record, Ramos made false written statements in connection with the purchases of two assault-style firearms, one in Oklahoma City and one in Luther, Oklahoma.  In one instance, Ramos submitted the ATF Form 4473 stating he was not acquiring the assault-style firearm for another person, but a few hours after the transfer law enforcement found another individual in possession of it during a traffic stop.  At sentencing, Castro faces up to ten years in federal prison on both counts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 21, 2023, 11:04:56 AM

So only folks who live in Oklahoma violate this law?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2023, 11:06:10 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 21, 2023, 11:04:56 AM

So only folks who live in Oklahoma violate this law?

And Delaware. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 11:14:21 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 10:50:40 AM

Federal Prosecutors Aggressively Pursuing Those Who Lie in Connection With Firearm Transactions | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (atf.gov) (https://www.atf.gov/news/pr/federal-prosecutors-aggressively-pursuing-those-who-lie-connection-firearm-transactions#:~:text=This Form requires buyers to,10 years in federal prison.)

• EDDIE WAYNE MORRISON, 34 of Duncan, Oklahoma, was sentenced to time-served, or essentially 16 months in federal custody, on December 29, 2022, for making a false statement during the purchase of a firearm.  According to public record, Morrison purchased a firearm from EZ Pawn in Duncan.  Prior to purchasing a firearm, Morrison had been deemed incompetent by a court.  He was also subject to a protective order in Love County.  A judge had ordered Morrison detained in federal custody since August 12, 2021, until sentencing.  He is currently serving a term of two years of supervised release.

• HALEY LEEANNE ADKISON, 24, of Oklahoma City, pleaded guilty on August 18, 2022, to making a false statement during a firearms transaction.  According to public record, Adkison was observed completing paperwork regarding the purchase of firearms at an Oklahoma City Fairgrounds gun show, after looking at different firearms with Heriberto Flores.  Adkison was scheduled to take possession of six firearms at the vendor’s store in Tulsa, Oklahoma.  At sentencing, Adkison faces up to ten years in federal prison.

• JOSHUA DAVID MOSELEY, 31, of Harrah, Oklahoma, pleaded guilty on September 6, 2022, to making a false statement during the purchase of a firearm.  According to public record, Moseley attempted to purchase a firearm from Super Pawn #2 Inc., in Oklahoma City.  Moseley checked “no” for having been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.  Public records show that, on January 6, 2022, Mosely was convicted of misdemeanor domestic assault and battery in Oklahoma County District Court case CM-2021-1377.  At sentencing, Moseley faces up to 10 years in federal prison.
• BRIONJRE MARTAI ODELL HAMILTON, 22, of Oklahoma City, pleaded guilty on October 10, 2022, to making false statements during attempted purchases of firearms.  According to public record, on May 25, 2022, Hamilton was convicted of carrying a firearm under the influence of drugs (marijuana) in Oklahoma County District Court case CM-2021-3533.  Thereafter, records reflect Hamilton lied on the ATF Form 4473 regarding his eligibility to purchase firearms and attempted to purchase firearms on four separate occasions, after the ATF informed Hamilton that he was a prohibited from doing so.  At sentencing, Hamilton faces up to 10 years in federal prison on all four counts.
• NEMORY ZAHID RAMOS CASTRO, 22, of Oklahoma City, pleaded guilty on January 5, 2023, for making a false statement during the purchase of a firearm.  According to public record, Ramos made false written statements in connection with the purchases of two assault-style firearms, one in Oklahoma City and one in Luther, Oklahoma.  In one instance, Ramos submitted the ATF Form 4473 stating he was not acquiring the assault-style firearm for another person, but a few hours after the transfer law enforcement found another individual in possession of it during a traffic stop.  At sentencing, Castro faces up to ten years in federal prison on both counts.

I'm not sure any of those are the same charge

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 11:17:21 AM

They are similar charges, not exactly the same, but basically lying on the application form.

I'd guess a prosecutor in Oklahoma wanted to make a point and had this press release.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 21, 2023, 11:17:42 AM

Would be interesting to know what they served and background factors. 

The only person listed there whose time we know seemed to have some other issues. 

On the other hand, it’s really a shame that out of context press releases are a part of this at all. Presumably this is all out there somewhere, but you have to be a bit more expert than I (and maybe pay for a service?) to get all that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 11:19:25 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 11:17:21 AM

They are similar charges, not exactly the same, but basically lying on the application form.

I'd guess a prosecutor in Oklahoma wanted to make a point and had this press release.

The biggest issue is the lie. It's a heck of a lot easier to prove someone has a prior record than it is that someone is a drug addict.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 11:23:55 AM

Sure, the criminal act is lying on the form, of whatever nature.  If you say you don't use drugs and you do, that is a lie, whether easy to prove or not is irrelevant to anything but a judicial outcome.  He clearly admitted to lying, and there were photos of his drug usage.  

I couldn't find how these folks were sentenced.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 11:30:11 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 11:23:55 AM

Sure, the criminal act is lying on the form, of whatever nature.  If you say you don't use drugs and you do, that is a lie, whether easy to prove or not is irrelevant to anything but a judicial outcome.  He clearly admitted to lying, and there were photos of his drug usage. 

I couldn't find how these folks were sentenced.

You aren't grasping the issue. The government has to prove there is a lie. Simple, objective facts like a person has been convicted of a prior felony are easy to prove, and therefore tough to beat. More vague, subjective facts like whether or not someone is a drug addict are tougher to prove and easier for defendants to fight in court. That isn't to say there is no evidence, but it's a tougher case for prosecutors, which is why they are more likely to let it go. Plea bargains are generally entered into as a compromise between the defendant and prosecutors in large part due to the strength of a case. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 11:36:03 AM

It's pretty easy to prove when the culprit admits to it.  All these cases are lying on a Federal form, every one of them.  That is the crime, and it's not in dispute, it was admitted as a fact.  

The specific details of the lie and what it's about is irrelevant at that point except perhaps to sentencing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2023, 11:46:20 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 11:30:11 AM

You aren't grasping the issue. The government has to prove there is a lie. Simple, objective facts like a person has been convicted of a prior felony are easy to prove, and therefore tough to beat. More vague, subjective facts like whether or not someone is a drug addict are tougher to prove and easier for defendants to fight in court. That isn't to say there is no evidence, but it's a tougher case for prosecutors, which is why they are more likely to let it go. Plea bargains are generally entered into as a compromise between the defendant and prosecutors in large part due to the strength of a case.

I agree, and some of this largely depends on who you are and who you know. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 11:46:27 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 10:44:24 AM

Unlikely. A lot of feds I've read are noting they have never seen that charge by itself before. Usually it's something they throw in with a batch of other charges in various drug dealing cases.

At least I was able to find a number of charges that stand alone, lying on the Federal form.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2023, 12:25:36 PM

2016 ATF Form

(https://i.imgur.com/QTIGhdb.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 12:39:07 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 11:36:03 AM

It's pretty easy to prove when the culprit admits to it.  All these cases are lying on a Federal form, every one of them.  That is the crime, and it's not in dispute, it was admitted as a fact. 

The specific details of the lie and what it's about is irrelevant at that point except perhaps to sentencing.

No. You can't use the plea bargain as evidence for guilt to turn around and charge the defendant with a more serious crime. That would defeat the purpose of the plea bargain. Also probably violate the rules of evidence. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 12:45:43 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2023, 11:46:20 AM

I agree, and some of this largely depends on who you are and who you know.

I mean, sure. But I think the attraction here for the prosecutor, who was appointed by Trump and kept in place to avoid a special prosecutor, is that he isn't in some long winded case involving dubious charges that gets loads of media attention. Who wants to be the prosecutor known mostly for losing a case? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 21, 2023, 12:49:48 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 11:19:25 AM

The biggest issue is the lie. It's a heck of a lot easier to prove someone has a prior record than it is that someone is a drug addict.

He has admitted to using illegal drugs. There is video of him using drugs. The HB charges are simply a way for the DOJ to say that he didn't get off without any charges, but not charged with the felonies that would be very easy to prove. It is a slap on the wrist that you or I would not get. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 21, 2023, 12:53:28 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 12:39:07 PM

No. You can't use the plea bargain as evidence for guilt to turn around and charge the defendant with a more serious crime. That would defeat the purpose of the plea bargain. Also probably violate the rules of evidence.

You are not grasping the concept. He admitted not paying taxes due, and falsifying gun application.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 21, 2023, 12:55:21 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 12:45:43 PM

I mean, sure. But I think the attraction here for the prosecutor, who was appointed by Trump and kept in place to avoid a special prosecutor, is that he isn't in some long winded case involving dubious charges that gets loads of media attention. Who wants to be the prosecutor known mostly for losing a case?

So misleading. “Appointed by Trump”.  Yes- based on the high recommendation from the 2 Dem Senators from that state.  Trump never heard of Weiss before that.  And he is a Dem.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 21, 2023, 01:12:24 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 21, 2023, 12:53:28 PM

You are not grasping the concept. He admitted not paying taxes due, and falsifying gun application. 

Admitted when?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 01:25:13 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 12:39:07 PM

No. You can't use the plea bargain as evidence for guilt to turn around and charge the defendant with a more serious crime. That would defeat the purpose of the plea bargain. Also probably violate the rules of evidence.

What more serious crime was charged in this case?  He accepted a diversion on the gun charge.  He lied on the application, this is known.  It is not in dispute by anyone relevant.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 01:26:57 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 21, 2023, 12:49:48 PM

He has admitted to using illegal drugs. There is video of him using drugs. The HB charges are simply a way for the DOJ to say that he didn't get off without any charges, but not charged with the felonies that would be very easy to prove. It is a slap on the wrist that you or I would not get.

https://thereload.com/federal-judge-tosses-gun-possession-case-against-drug-users/

Being an unlawful user of a controlled substance does not remove a person’s Second Amendment rights, a federal trial court ruled last Friday.

U.S. District Judge Kathleen Cardone, a George W. Bush appointee, dismissed a case against an El Paso woman who was charged with possessing a firearm as an unlawful user of marijuana and with transferring a firearm and ammunition to her husband, himself an illegal user of multiple controlled substances. Judge Cardone ruled that the federal prohibitions regulating both charges “deviate from our Nation’s history of firearm regulation” and are “unconstitutional.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 01:29:18 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 01:25:13 PM

What more serious crime was charged in this case?  He accepted a diversion on the gun charge.  He lied on the application, this is known.  It is not in dispute by anyone relevant.

Yes, because they have an agreement. If they didn't have an agreement, there would be a dispute. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 21, 2023, 01:32:11 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 21, 2023, 01:12:24 PM

Admitted when?

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2023-06-20/hunter-biden-to-plead-guilty-to-gun-tax-charges

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 01:32:43 PM

This is circular.  I don't think anyone denies he falsified/lied on the form.

That is a crime.  How it is handled is a separate issue.  I'm not sure of course what is left to investigate, beyond various allegations by Republicans.

Weiss's office said in a statement: "Hunter Biden received taxable income in excess of $1,500,000 annually in calendar years 2017 and 2018. Despite owing in excess of $100,000 in federal income taxes each year, he did not pay the income tax due for either year." 

Regarding the gun charge, the statement said that "from on or about October 12, 2018 through October 23, 2018, Hunter Biden possessed a firearm despite knowing he was an unlawful user of and addicted to a controlled substance."
Weiss's office also said its investigation continues.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 01:35:12 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 21, 2023, 01:32:11 PM

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2023-06-20/hunter-biden-to-plead-guilty-to-gun-tax-charges

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 01:32:43 PM

This is circular.  I don't think anyone denies he falsified/lied on the form.

That is a crime.  How it is handled is a separate issue.  I'm not sure of course what is left to investigate, beyond various allegations by Republicans.

Yes, you are both using circular logic, to what end I'm not certain. You are saying that the existence of the agreement is itself evidence that the government had overwhelming evidence. This is not logical.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 21, 2023, 01:36:10 PM

This thread is humorous.  

Virtually nobody in the Biden camp, Washington D.C., the liberal media- talking heads- is disputing that Hunter Biden failed to pay taxes due, and lied on a gun application ( a felony). 

But we have people here taking the position that he took plea deals on both, not because he actually committed the crimes, but to compromise to an acceptable conclusion. 

Classic 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 21, 2023, 01:37:04 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 01:35:12 PM

Yes, you are both using circular logic, to what end I'm not certain. You are saying that the existence of the agreement is itself evidence that the government had overwhelming evidence. This is not logical.

Wow. Just wow.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 01:37:13 PM

Nobody said anything about who had overwhelming evidence, anywhere.  That's a straw man.

Are you stating that he did not lie on the firearms form?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 01:39:18 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 01:37:13 PM

Nobody said anything about who had overwhelming evidence, anywhere.  That's a straw man.

Are you stating that he did not lie on the firearms form? 

I'm saying that they have an agreement now does not make the case stronger. If this was presented as a charge that the government had to prove, it may have been a weak case, for various reasons. That he entered diversion and admitted to the underlying facts does not mean that government had a great case.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 21, 2023, 01:44:26 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 21, 2023, 01:36:10 PM

This thread is humorous. 

Virtually nobody in the Biden camp, Washington D.C., the liberal media- talking heads- is disputing that Hunter Biden failed to pay taxes due, and lied on a gun application ( a felony).

But we have people here taking the position that he took plea deals on both, not because he actually committed the crimes, but to compromise to an acceptable conclusion.

Classic

That's not what I'm reading. I'm guessing he took the plea deals because he actually committed the crimes. 

At best what I'm gathering from Sam is that him accepting the plea deal on the gun charge is admitting that he used drugs, but the prosecutor can't use that admission as evidence in a trial for the gun charge because he didn't admit it until it became part of the plea deal. 

Essentially that the prosecutor would have to PROVE that he was a drug user, if it went to trial. 

The prosecutor offered the plea deal because there might be a chance he would lose at trial and Hunter be found not guilty. Hunter accepted the plea deal because there might be a chance (especially since he IS in fact a drug user) he would be found guilty. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 21, 2023, 01:51:21 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 21, 2023, 01:44:26 PM

That's not what I'm reading. I'm guessing he took the plea deals because he actually committed the crimes.

At best what I'm gathering from Sam is that him accepting the plea deal on the gun charge is admitting that he used drugs, but the prosecutor can't use that admission as evidence in a trial for the gun charge because he didn't admit it until it became part of the plea deal.

Essentially that the prosecutor would have to PROVE that he was a drug user, if it went to trial.

The prosecutor offered the plea deal because there might be a chance he would lose at trial and Hunter be found not guilty. Hunter accepted the plea deal because there might be a chance (especially since he IS in fact a drug user) he would be found guilty.

Well- that is your interpretation of Sam's position

Also- HB has openly admitted- in a very public forum GMA) that he has a serious addiction problem. Also- just do a search/ plenty of photos which are incriminating.  Proof was easy.  Already there in fact.

No- they put him in a diversion program - which by the way- many experts have said he wasn’t even eligible for. 

Does anyone believe getting a conviction in either the tax case or the gun case would have been even remotely difficult? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 01:53:45 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 21, 2023, 01:51:21 PM

Does anyone believe getting a conviction in either the tax case or the gun case would have been even remotely difficult?

Yes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 21, 2023, 01:59:22 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 01:53:45 PM

Yes

And I respect your opinion. As always. You are an attorney as I recall.  

But I just disagree.    

But even if you are correct- a related issue is this question of a two tiered justice system. 

I can’t say I care -at all- for either party.  But it just seems so obvious that the DOJ ant the FBI are so tilted in one direction.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 01:59:43 PM

Hunter Biden on Addiction and His Family’s Effort to Keep Him Alive | Time (https://time.com/5952773/hunter-biden-memoir-beautiful-things/)

I presume the tax case is pretty clear cut, and of course he admitted openly to being a drug addict, and was kicked out of the Navy for a positive test.

I'm sure he was advised by council to take the pleas because they knew it would be almost impossible to get an NG verdict.  One can make all sorts of excuses for whatever, but I think most rational people understand he was a drug addict, he did lie on that form, and he did evade taxes, quite a large sum in fact, on $3 million over two years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 21, 2023, 02:00:36 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 21, 2023, 01:51:21 PM

Does anyone believe getting a conviction in either the tax case or the gun case would have been even remotely difficult?

I'll bet Marcia Clark thought getting a conviction was a slam dunk. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 21, 2023, 02:02:21 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 21, 2023, 02:00:36 PM

I'll bet Marcia Clark thought getting a conviction was a slam dunk.

Good point.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2023, 02:03:18 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 21, 2023, 02:00:36 PM

I'll bet Marcia Clark thought getting a conviction was a slam dunk.

Depends on who you are and who you know.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 21, 2023, 02:08:28 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2023, 02:03:18 PM

Depends on who you are and who you know.

And who is on the jury. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 21, 2023, 02:09:38 PM

https://www.injusticewatch.org/news/2021/disappearing-jury-trials-study/

In the federal criminal justice system, fewer than 2% of cases went to trial in the 12-month period ending in March 2020, the most recent for which data from the federal judiciary is available.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 21, 2023, 02:11:54 PM

Also worth noting, there’s a recent Supreme Court case that possibly threw out that particular rule about guns and drug use. So if you push it, decent chance it gets wiped away anyway.

There’s a lawyer I’ve read who has a refrain that a lot of folks focus on what they want the law to be rather than what it is. That’s in part because what it is is both often confusing, adhering to its own weird logic and in some ways deeply unfair. The issue is, it probably isn’t deeply unfair in the way that aligns exactly to your priors (the priors usually being, my ideological enemy is of course getting away with everything).

And trying to really learn, understand how or why things operate as the do is hard, time consuming and bleak. It’s easier, and to a degree more fun, to find the tidbits that make us mad and get mad about them. Like, without a print out of someone’s actual record, making any of these judgements is somewhat speculative.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 02:12:36 PM

Sure, you get a better deal in most cases with a plea, and risk a much stiffer sentence if found guilty, this is known.  Do some folks take a plea even if the case is shaky?  Probably, in part because most of them know they are guilty.  But it could be Hunter wrote about being a crack addict just to sell books and he never used at all.  I'm sure he could try that defense, I doubt it would work.  There likely were a number of witnesses to his crack use, including photos etc.

Probably not hard to prove BARD.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 21, 2023, 02:13:08 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 01:26:57 PM

https://thereload.com/federal-judge-tosses-gun-possession-case-against-drug-users/

Being an unlawful user of a controlled substance does not remove a person’s Second Amendment rights, a federal trial court ruled last Friday.

U.S. District Judge Kathleen Cardone, a George W. Bush appointee, dismissed a case against an El Paso woman who was charged with possessing a firearm as an unlawful user of marijuana and with transferring a firearm and ammunition to her husband, himself an illegal user of multiple controlled substances. Judge Cardone ruled that the federal prohibitions regulating both charges “deviate from our Nation’s history of firearm regulation” and are “unconstitutional.”

Apples and oranges. That says nothing about lying on a Federal Background check, which is a felony.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 21, 2023, 02:13:43 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 21, 2023, 02:09:38 PM

https://www.injusticewatch.org/news/2021/disappearing-jury-trials-study/

In the federal criminal justice system, fewer than 2% of cases went to trial in the 12-month period ending in March 2020, the most recent for which data from the federal judiciary is available.

The whole mechanics of trials is something. It makes sense that pleas are mostly the way things go, especially with the ability to flex prosecutorial muscle and the unfortunate trial tax.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2023, 02:15:25 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 21, 2023, 02:08:28 PM

And who is on the jury.

Yep.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 02:17:20 PM

Hunter Biden’s Lawyers Cite Landmark Gun Ruling in Bid to Stave Off Charges - The New York Times (nytimes.com) (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/31/us/politics/hunter-biden-bruen-justice-department.html)

 A president’s son is invoking a court decision his father has described as an affront to [color=var(--color-signal-editorial,#326891)]“common sense and the Constitution”[/color] (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/06/23/statement-by-president-joe-biden-on-supreme-court-ruling-on-guns/#:~:text=I am deeply disappointed by,and to acquire a license.) — and staking that claim on a majority opinion written by Justice Clarence Thomas, [color=var(--color-signal-editorial,#326891)]a vigorous supporter of gun rights[/color] (https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/06/23/us/gun-control-senate-supreme-court) whom many Democrats see as having helped enable the gun lobby.

 In recent years, the investigation expanded to include scrutiny of his purchase of a handgun in 2018, and his false response of “no” when asked whether he was an “unlawful user” of drugs. At the time, Mr. Biden was struggling to remain sober.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 02:18:49 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 01:59:43 PM

Hunter Biden on Addiction and His Family’s Effort to Keep Him Alive | Time (https://time.com/5952773/hunter-biden-memoir-beautiful-things/)

I presume the tax case is pretty clear cut, and of course he admitted openly to being a drug addict, and was kicked out of the Navy for a positive test.

I'm sure he was advised by council to take the pleas because they knew it would be almost impossible to get an NG verdict.  One can make all sorts of excuses for whatever, but I think most rational people understand he was a drug addict, he did lie on that form, and he did evade taxes, quite a large sum in fact, on $3 million over two years.

No. This is almost completely speculation. A lot of what you cite isn't particularly great evidence in court. Federal prosecutors usually have pretty high quality evidence, and basing your whole case on Time articles and internet sleuthing is not something they would love. I have no idea what the quality of evidence is in the tax case, but the main draw of the agreement is that they are misdemeanors and he wouldn't go to jail. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 21, 2023, 02:19:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 02:12:36 PM

Sure, you get a better deal in most cases with a plea, and risk a much stiffer sentence if found guilty, this is known.  Do some folks take a plea even if the case is shaky?  Probably, in part because most of them know they are guilty.  But it could be Hunter wrote about being a crack addict just to sell books and he never used at all.  I'm sure he could try that defense, I doubt it would work.  There likely were a number of witnesses to his crack use, including photos etc.

Probably not hard to prove BARD. 

I haven't really studied this, but I saw this from what you posted...

Regarding the gun charge, the statement said that "from on or about October 12, 2018 through October 23, 2018, Hunter Biden possessed a firearm despite knowing he was an unlawful user of and addicted to a controlled substance."

So are we saying that if he only possessed the firearm for that 11-day period, you can also prove he was an illegal user of drugs during those 11 days?

Although some people claim addiction is a lifelong condition (i.e. you're an addict forever, even if you're clean), I'm not sure that is the legal definition. If he had been clean and sober for a period before he filled out that firearms form, claiming he was not a user nor addicted to an illicit drug, is it a lie?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 02:19:38 PM

Supreme Court strikes down New York gun law along ideological lines - POLITICO (https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/23/supreme-court-strikes-down-new-york-gun-law-along-ideological-lines-00041691)

Writing for the majority, Justice Clarence Thomas said New York’s requirement that gun owners show “proper cause” to carry a weapon outside the home for self-defense violates the Constitution’s guarantee of gun rights.

“We know of no other constitutional right that an individual may exercise only after demonstrating to government officers some special need,” Thomas wrote. “That is not how the First Amendment works when it comes to unpopular speech or the free exercise of religion. It is not how the Sixth Amendment works when it comes to a defendant’s right to confront the witnesses against him. And it is not how the Second Amendment works when it comes to public carry for self-defense.”

However, the dissenting justices said the court was trampling on New York’s efforts to tailor weapons regulations to particular threats posed by guns in that state.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 02:21:30 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 21, 2023, 02:13:08 PM

Apples and oranges. That says nothing about lying on a Federal Background check, which is a felony.

The federal prosecutors would love you on their jury. Possessing illegal drugs while having a gun? Fine, fine. Lying about possession on a form - now that's the real crime.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 21, 2023, 02:23:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 02:19:38 PM

Supreme Court strikes down New York gun law along ideological lines - POLITICO (https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/23/supreme-court-strikes-down-new-york-gun-law-along-ideological-lines-00041691)

Writing for the majority, Justice Clarence Thomas said New York’s requirement that gun owners show “proper cause” to carry a weapon outside the home for self-defense violates the Constitution’s guarantee of gun rights.

“We know of no other constitutional right that an individual may exercise only after demonstrating to government officers some special need,” Thomas wrote. “That is not how the First Amendment works when it comes to unpopular speech or the free exercise of religion. It is not how the Sixth Amendment works when it comes to a defendant’s right to confront the witnesses against him. And it is not how the Second Amendment works when it comes to public carry for self-defense.”

However, the dissenting justices said the court was trampling on New York’s efforts to tailor weapons regulations to particular threats posed by guns in that state.

I don't know of any clause in the Constitution that says that the government can trample on someone's rights if things aren't going well in their state. What a week argument. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 21, 2023, 02:24:12 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 02:21:30 PM

The federal prosecutors would love you on their jury. Possessing illegal drugs while having a gun? Fine, fine. Lying about possession on a form - now that's the real crime.

The question on the form is not about possessing a gun. The form is used to determine if you are qualified to purchase a gun. And again, if you lie on a Federal Government form, it is a felony. No 2 ways about it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 02:24:54 PM

I don't know why that SCOTUS decision would bear on lying on the firearms application.

The story about the gun gets pretty sordid with a lot of complicating factors, none of which bear on whether he lied, and how hard it would be to prove he did.

Hunter Biden raged at Hallie after she trashed his gun: report (nypost.com) (https://nypost.com/2022/06/15/hunter-biden-raged-at-hallie-after-she-trashed-his-gun-report/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 02:27:37 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 21, 2023, 02:24:12 PM

The question on the form is not about possessing a gun. The form is used to determine if you are qualified to purchase a gun. And again, if you lie on a Federal Government form, it is a felony. No 2 ways about it.

Yes. If they can prove it. But citing Time articles and Good Morning America interviews is not particularly convincing, when the standard is proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Was he an addict when he signed the form? Was he using drugs while he signed the form? Can they prove he used drugs and possessed a gun at the same time? What witnesses are they calling? We can all just use the Hannity show as our evidence - federal prosecutors cannot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 02:31:59 PM

They could call his girlfriend, and former sister in law.  She trashed the gun because she knew he was using and thought that was a dangerous combination.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 02:41:15 PM

Inside the Whirlwind 48 Hours Before Hunter Biden Bought His Handgun (freebeacon.com) (https://freebeacon.com/biden-administration/inside-the-whirlwind-48-hours-before-hunter-biden-bought-his-handgun/)

Justice Department prosecutors are reportedly investigating the younger Biden for several potential offenses related to his Oct. 12, 2018, gun purchase, including whether he lied on a federal firearms application when asked, "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?"
A [color=rgb(0 0 0 / var(--tw-text-opacity))]Washington Free Beacon[/i] review of emails, photographs, and text messages from Hunter Biden’s abandoned laptop reveals a series of chaotic days that led up to his trip to the gun store and provides further evidence that Hunter Biden was an active drug user at the time of his gun purchase.[/font][/size][/color]
Photos published by the [color=rgb(0 0 0 / var(--tw-text-opacity))]New York Post [/i]show Hunter Biden asleep with a crack pipe in his mouth on Oct. 8. A few days after he purchased the gun, on Oct. 19, Hallie Biden texted him a photo of crack cocaine paraphernalia forgotten on a table in an unknown location.[/font][/size][/color]

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2023, 03:02:09 PM

Changing direction here.

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 21, 2023, 02:25:09 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/i3lCzXk.jpg)

This is a big deal. The vessel in question was not a USCG approved vessel, which to me is a major problem. Being a licensed USCG Master Captain I can plainly state that you cannot take passengers on a vessel for hire without certification. There must have been some loophole - MAYBE??


The USCG and other agencies, including Canada, are spending a lot of time and money on this search.

Regardless of outcome, someone has to pay, and this organization must be stopped.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 21, 2023, 03:05:38 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2023, 03:02:09 PM

Changing direction here.


This is a big deal. The vessel in question was not a USCG approved vessel, which to me is a major problem. Being a licensed USCG Master Captain I can plainly state that you cannot take passengers on a vessel for hire without certification. There must have been some loophole - MAYBE??


The USCG and other agencies, including Canada, are spending a lot of time and money on this search.

Regardless of outcome, someone has to pay, and this organization must be stopped.

Enough money and you can do anything!

(All of this seemed like a bad idea)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 03:06:11 PM

Was it operating out of Canada?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 21, 2023, 03:18:04 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2023, 03:02:09 PM

Changing direction here.


This is a big deal. The vessel in question was not a USCG approved vessel, which to me is a major problem. Being a licensed USCG Master Captain I can plainly state that you cannot take passengers on a vessel for hire without certification. There must have been some loophole - MAYBE??


The USCG and other agencies, including Canada, are spending a lot of time and money on this search.

Regardless of outcome, someone has to pay, and this organization must be stopped.

Supposedly the CEO of OceanGate is also the submersible pilot, and is likely going to pay with his life for this. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2023, 03:29:30 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 21, 2023, 03:18:04 PM

Supposedly the CEO of OceanGate is also the submersible pilot, and is likely going to pay with his life for this.

This is not what I read. He chose to pay "kids" to pilot the vessel rather than "old" sub pilots. The "kids" are more inspirational.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2023, 03:29:58 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 21, 2023, 03:05:38 PM

Enough money and you can do anything!

(All of this seemed like a bad idea)

Ya think?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2023, 03:32:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 03:06:11 PM

Was it operating out of Canada?

I have not read anything about the origin. The company is based in Washington State.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 21, 2023, 03:43:57 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2023, 03:29:30 PM

This is not what I read. He chose to pay "kids" to pilot the vessel rather than "old" sub pilots. The "kids" are more inspirational.

Obviously this is Wikipedia, but it claims he's one of the people aboard. I ended up on Wiki to find out about the company, and then it had a link to the current event page...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Titan_submersible_incident

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 21, 2023, 03:44:52 PM

Apparently NBC also claims he's aboard: 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/titanic-tourist-submersible-missing-5-people-rcna90248

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 21, 2023, 03:49:42 PM

Yep

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/21/business/stockton-rush-titanic-submersible/index.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2023, 04:15:58 PM

Did not realize he was a passenger. Maybe he should have had a pilot...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 21, 2023, 04:28:46 PM

I've read a few articles on this and have more questions than answers. 

Initial reports seemed to suggest that it either imploded or got trapped. Either would imply that it was at the bottom. However, I read somewhere that they lost contact when it should have been about 1/2 way down. That almost certainly means it didn't implode and there wouldn't be anything to get trapped by.

There have been reports of pounding at half hour increments which means those on board are alive (assuming the noise is coming from them) but it is obviously unclear what caused the issues and finding something that small 2.5mi below the surface is a tall order to say the least.

I've read that they should have enough oxygen to stay alive until sometime Thursday so at this point it is still a search and rescue mission but if they are not retrieved within about 24 hours it will be downgraded to a search for bodies and other evidence. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 04:44:26 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2023, 03:29:30 PM

This is not what I read. He chose to pay "kids" to pilot the vessel rather than "old" sub pilots. The "kids" are more inspirational.

And use an old video game controller to steer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 21, 2023, 05:10:47 PM

I saw that too, this morning. Seems like a contraption for sure. I would not consider it at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 21, 2023, 05:41:43 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2023, 10:55:21 AM

There is no US base in Taiwan, but I do agree that the US has major presences all over the world.

US has like EIGHT HUNDRED military bases around the world in over 100 countries. I want to say they have around 300+ alone that encircle China and could fire missiles which level Chinese cities in minutes. China has I think like 3 military bases in other countries around the world.

US spends over $1.3 trillion a year on defense if you include everything that should be included but isn't (nulcear weapons, intelligence, interest payments on wars, veteran benefits). They spend more on military imperialism than like the next 15 countries combined, most of which are allies.

China is not a true direct military peer competitor, they are an economic one. And they are kinda wiping the floor with us in that regard. They build roads and bridges to influence other countries and loan them money and sell them sh!t. We build military bases and bomb the living sh!t out of other countries and have zero regard for international law and basically do whatever the fk we want, where we want, when we want.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 21, 2023, 05:47:04 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 20, 2023, 10:46:18 AM

I'm not worried about some training base in Cuba, and there is not a thing we could do about it anyway.

The solution to Cuba, in my opinion, is Hilton/Marriot/Sheraton, et al.

kinda funny hearing people in the US cry uncle about a foreign military base in Cuba when the US has like 800 foreign military bases all over the world and oh yeah by the way has also occupied 45 sq miles of Cuba for 120 years now and has run an illegal worldwide rendition & torture black site there since 2001. Lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 21, 2023, 05:48:35 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 20, 2023, 01:09:18 PM

yeah.....he's rich.

he's actually not rich....which is the reason for all his influence peddling and trying to sell access and acting as an unregistered foreign agent...

slap on the wrist because daddy is the fkn President of the US of A and hires/fires the people who run the DOJ and FBI....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 21, 2023, 05:50:30 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2023, 01:14:09 PM

One promotes freedom.

One does not.

Lmao...great joke brother. 

"who's being naive, Kay?"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 21, 2023, 05:52:13 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 03:42:04 PM

Not so protected as to not get popped for relatively low level charges.

a federal weapons charge and federal income tax evasion charges for failing to pay $2 million in taxes is low level? Wtf? Lol. 

You do know the dude owed the IRS over $2 million and had some lawyer buddy of his write the check, right? 

I got an idea. Try buying a firearm illegally and owing the IRS $2 million and see if you get off as lightly as the crack head did. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 21, 2023, 06:00:03 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 06:24:08 PM

One might think, but probably be wrong. Tax charges are notoriously hard to prosecute. What if his record show he didn't owe any taxes? If he has a slightly defensible claim, it is an uphill battle. That's why Trump has never been prosecuted for tax evasion despite some creative ideas about what he owes. Further, the state has to prove that Hunter is a drug addict and lied about, which is also challenging. These are fairly low level charges and got a fairly low level result, and the only remarkable thing is that the charges happened at all.

you are grasping at fking straws....

Trump is a billionaire who owns ridiculous amounts of real estate (which come with all kinds of tax loopholes/ tax benefits) who employs a fkng ARMY of accountants and tax lawyers in order to legally avoid paying tax. It's bullshit. But it's legal. That is the system. And the rich can game it. And he does.

The crack head who shall not be named didn't pay a single dime in tax, which is why he got in trouble and which is why he had to have a friend of his write a $2 million check to the IRS to keep his ass out of hot water.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 21, 2023, 06:05:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 20, 2023, 06:27:07 PM

Wesley Snipes Loses $23.5 Million Tax Case, Offers IRS Tiny 4% Compromise (forbes.com) (https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2018/11/02/wesley-snipes-loses-23-5-million-tax-case-offers-irs-tiny-4-compromise/?sh=29d931d45632)

Wesley Snipes went to jail for like 3 years and ordered to pay $5 million in fines for tax evasion. Wonder if his Daddy was the President of the USA if he would've had to do time....probably not...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 21, 2023, 06:12:26 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 06:46:51 PM

If the Tribe weren't trying to paint Hunter Biden as some sort of anti-American supervillain, the optics would be worse for him on pleading guilty to federal charges. As it is, Republicans have to own goal on this one.

No one is trying to paint Hunter Biden as some sort of anti-american supervillain....what in the actual fk are you going on about lmfao? All anyone is painting him as is what he is- the crack head son of a corrupt career politician....

btw....THAT is exactly what they try to paint Trump as lmao...as if he was some sort of unique horrific monster and criminal never before seen in the history of US politics. When the reality is he's no bigger of a criminal than any previous Presidents before him. And in fact I'd argue his crimes are small when compared to Presidents like Clinton or Bush. I actually give Trump a lot of credit for pushing to end the war in Afghanistan and not getting the US into any new wars- despite all the pushback he received from his advisors like John Bolton and the military industrial complex and war pig scumbags in Congress like Lez Cheney aka Miss Piggy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 21, 2023, 06:19:22 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on June 21, 2023, 08:59:34 AM

Biden's DoJ has had a major hard on for firearm violations yet HB walks?  Lying on that form is a felony.  If you did it, you would go to prison.  Same likely goes for intentionally not declaring over a million in income and not paying taxes on it for years.  We live under a two tier justice system.

this 100% and anyone who disagrees with it is suspect. In my opinion.

Kodak Black (a famous rapper from South Florida for you old people) got a 3 year prison sentence for lying on a firearm purchase form.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 21, 2023, 06:32:35 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 20, 2023, 07:04:28 PM

Anyways, I think it is pretty obvious that these charges were only brought to appease Republicans who are mad that Trump got charged with anything. This would not have been brought against a normal person.

Lmfao. Are you smoking crack with Hunter brother? What? People get charged with federal tax crimes and federal gun violations on the DAILY and actually serve time....not get sweetheart PTI deals.

The reality is the indictment against Trump would not have been brought against any other high level US govt official let alone a former PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. How do I know? David Petraeus, Joe Biden, Mike Pence, Hillary Clinton, and a whole litany of others committed mishandling of classified documents crimes and worst any of them got was a slap on the wrist. Petraeus shared top secret documents- the most sensitive and highest level of classification in US code- documents with names of operatives and detailed military plans- to his fkng mistress who was writing a book about him and all he got was a little slap on the wrist.

Also...charging the guy under the espionage act is flat out ludicrous. The espionage act is unconstitutional and just flat out needs to go. So does the over-classification of documents which happens in the US federal bureaucracy monstrosity. That sh!t needs a serious overhaul.

Pretty obvious to anyone with even half a brain cell that particular prosecution of Trump over the documents is being done solely to put pressure on him to drop out of the 2024 race.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 21, 2023, 06:41:40 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 21, 2023, 02:00:36 PM

I'll bet Marcia Clark thought getting a conviction was a slam dunk.

OJ was a hell of a RB1 bro. 2,000 yards in 14 games....c'mon. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 06:42:38 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 21, 2023, 06:00:03 PM

you are grasping at fking straws....

Trump is a billionaire who owns ridiculous amounts of real estate (which come with all kinds of tax loopholes/ tax benefits) who employs a fkng ARMY of accountants and tax lawyers in order to legally avoid paying tax. It's bullshit. But it's legal. That is the system. And the rich can game it. And he does.

The crack head who shall not be named didn't pay a single dime in tax, which is why he got in trouble and which is why he had to have a friend of his write a $2 million check to the IRS to keep his ass out of hot water.

LOL. "You see, Trump can game the system to his favor. But Hunter Biden shouldn't be able to."

I mean, come on. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 06:45:24 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 21, 2023, 05:52:13 PM

a federal weapons charge and federal income tax evasion charges for failing to pay $2 million in taxes is low level? Wtf? Lol.

You do know the dude owed the IRS over $2 million and had some lawyer buddy of his write the check, right?

I got an idea. Try buying a firearm illegally and owing the IRS $2 million and see if you get off as lightly as the crack head did.

So you are telling me he paid his taxes. And then you wonder why he didn't go to jail. Sometimes the simplest answer is right there in front of you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 06:49:02 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 21, 2023, 06:19:22 PM

this 100% and anyone who disagrees with it is suspect. In my opinion.

Kodak Black (a famous rapper from South Florida for you old people) got a 3 year prison sentence for lying on a firearm purchase form.

If you are following the thread, you already know the answer here. Kodak Black claimed he had never been charged for a felony despite being currently under indictment for rape when he filled out his form. That's like shooting ducks in a barrel for prosecutors. Just look at what the feds would have to do to have a hope of convicting Hunter - forensic experts, tracking down relatives and girlfriends. And they still would have pretty limited proof about the actual drugs he did 5 years ago. Plus the law is on shaky ground. This is a no contest - anyone comparing Hunter Biden to Kodak Black is suspect. In my opinion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 06:54:07 PM

Quote

Lmfao. Are you smoking crack with Hunter brother? What? People get charged with federal tax crimes and federal gun violations on the DAILY and actually serve time....not get sweetheart PTI deals.

Well, then, answer the question. Why charge him at all if it's just a dog and pony show? Half of Republican talking points is how unfair everything is for them. Critical Republican Theory. It's a nonstop litany of how awful they are treated. The only reason I can find that these charges and agreement were brought was to basically appease Republicans and their perpetual sense of aggrievement. Otherwise, what was the point? I bet there are more than a few members of Congress who have sworn they don't have a drug problem and bought a gun, and are shifty with their taxes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 21, 2023, 08:29:42 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 06:42:38 PM

LOL. "You see, Trump can game the system to his favor. But Hunter Biden shouldn't be able to."

I mean, come on.

dear lord, are you daft or something? 

Employing an army of accounts and tax lawyers to lower your tax burden is....legal. 

Deciding to just not pay your taxes at all on millions of dollars of income is....illegal.

There is a difference. A huge one. Trump is no different from any ultra wealthy person in this country. They LEGALLY game the system to pay as little as possible. 

Trump's tax returns are literally thousands of pages long and while yes he weasels out of paying taxes, he still pays taxes....and he's paid millions upon millions of dollrs in taxes to the US govt over the course of his life.

Hunter didn't file returns and he didn't pay any tax on millions of dollars in come....it's an open and shut case...dear god man.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 21, 2023, 08:34:59 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 06:49:02 PM

If you are following the thread, you already know the answer here. Kodak Black claimed he had never been charged for a felony despite being currently under indictment for rape when he filled out his form. That's like shooting ducks in a barrel for prosecutors. Just look at what the feds would have to do to have a hope of convicting Hunter - forensic experts, tracking down relatives and girlfriends. And they still would have pretty limited proof about the actual drugs he did 5 years ago. Plus the law is on shaky ground. This is a no contest - anyone comparing Hunter Biden to Kodak Black is suspect. In my opinion.

Yeah, NO.

He lied on a weapons purchase form. Literally the same exact thing Hunter Biden did. 

The mental gymnastics BlueAnon/ShitLibs make are truly astounding.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 09:30:44 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 21, 2023, 08:29:42 PM

dear lord, are you daft or something?

Employing an army of accounts and tax lawyers to lower your tax burden is....legal.

Deciding to just not pay your taxes at all on millions of dollars of income is....illegal.

There is a difference. A huge one. Trump is no different from any ultra wealthy person in this country. They LEGALLY game the system to pay as little as possible.

Trump's tax returns are literally thousands of pages long and while yes he weasels out of paying taxes, he still pays taxes....and he's paid millions upon millions of dollrs in taxes to the US govt over the course of his life.

Hunter didn't file returns and he didn't pay any tax on millions of dollars in come....it's an open and shut case...dear god man.

You aren't grappling with the reality of what you are saying. The tax codes can be gamed. This is true. Someone with lots of resources can game the system. Hunter Biden has lots of resources. So...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 21, 2023, 09:31:50 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 21, 2023, 08:34:59 PM

Yeah, NO.

He lied on a weapons purchase form. Literally the same exact thing Hunter Biden did.

The mental gymnastics BlueAnon/ShitLibs make are truly astounding.

Mmhmm. Yes, all crimes are basically the same if you strip out all the facts and context and law. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 21, 2023, 11:15:17 PM

At a point, I realize there's no point in arguing against this. People very badly want the world to be a way and the law to be a way. 

And the world might be that way, but the law sure doesn't seem to be. And a lot of folks who seem to know very little about how any of this works will insist that the way they misunderstand the world simply has to be the way it is. 

We have so little context or background. And if we start by discounting the person on this board who 110% would know more about this than the rest (unless there's a prosecutor or criminal defense attorney I've missed), then we're not really gonna get far. People will want. The wanting will mean nothing, and we'll get a whole mess of noise. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 22, 2023, 12:04:48 AM

Can we all agree that our justice system being influenced by a person's wealth is a bad thing?
I guess the counter argument would be that being wealthy makes it a perk?  Does anyone believe that?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2023, 05:03:26 AM

Folks start with the conclusion they want for partisan reasons and then seek confirmation of that.  It's pretty easy to find on line confirmation of whatever you believe about Hunter, or Trump, or anyone else.  The Oklahoma cases I cited COULD have been made public because this was looming by some conservative prosecutor.  I couldn't find other examples, so it seems a bit fishy to me.  Maybe it's not.

Many in the public get played by either side, it's not that hard.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2023, 06:01:26 AM

The claim obviously is this was some "sweetheart deal", but the somewhat similar cases I've read about aren't all that similar.  I can't discern whether he got a break or not, personally.  There is prosecutorial discretion that goes a long way in such cases.  It need not be partisan, though it can be.

Hunter is still under investigation for other matters.

It's clear to me none of this is about Hunter at all, it's about Joe, and Republican hopes they can drag him down with this stuff.  The odd thing is if they somehow manage to do this and he can't run in 2024, the Democrats have arguably stronger candidates in the wings.  As a political strategem, it might be premature.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 22, 2023, 06:47:48 AM

It's mud slinging 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2023, 06:58:49 AM

Yes, it is, and it works, because "we" in the public lap it up.  I can't find anything like enough comparable situations to discern whether he got some favoritism or not.  I don't think anyone else can either.  They just assume he did because ...

So, you end up with one side defending it, another side criticizing it, all for political angling.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2023, 07:05:10 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 21, 2023, 05:41:43 PM

US has like EIGHT HUNDRED military bases around the world in over 100 countries. I want to say they have around 300+ alone that encircle China and could fire missiles which level Chinese cities in minutes. China has I think like 3 military bases in other countries around the world.

Marshall was pretty smart. The US liberated your country. The US is making a base.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2023, 07:07:56 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 22, 2023, 06:58:49 AM

Yes, it is, and it works, because "we" in the public lap it up.  I can't find anything like enough comparable situations to discern whether he got some favoritism or not.  I don't think anyone else can either.  They just assume he did because ...

So, you end up with one side defending it, another side criticizing it, all for political angling.

All I know is if I were HB and my name wasn't HB, I'd be going to jail. Nothing political about it, at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2023, 07:13:54 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2023, 07:07:56 AM

All I know is if I were HB and my name wasn't HB, I'd be going to jail. Nothing political about it, at all.

How do you know that?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2023, 07:30:23 AM

Because I am a nobody and don't know anybody.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 22, 2023, 07:31:03 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2023, 07:07:56 AM

All I know is if I were HB and my name wasn't HB, I'd be going to jail. Nothing political about it, at all.

I know Honest Buckeye can get fervent sometimes but c'mon,sheesh

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 22, 2023, 07:46:24 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2023, 07:30:23 AM

Because I am a nobody and don't know anybody.

My Name is Nobody

https://youtu.be/90YLkHyhm1I?t=121

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 22, 2023, 08:07:04 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 22, 2023, 07:31:03 AM

I know Honest Buckeye can get fervent sometimes but c'mon,sheesh

😂😂

Many years ago- when I introduced my better half to my mom and dad for the first time, at their house, dad made her bust a gut laughing.  

He introduced himself by saying “ my name is somebody and nobody”.  And in a whiny voice:
”somebody left the toilet seat up, somebody left dishes in the sink, nobody got the newspaper in, nobody took the garbage out”.   

😂 Even mom had to laugh at that one. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2023, 08:20:14 AM

THAT is funny. I'm stealing it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2023, 08:57:41 AM

Invite Ukraine to join NATO now | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/4051618-invite-ukraine-to-join-nato-now/)

I would opine against such a move ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2023, 09:15:20 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 22, 2023, 08:57:41 AM

Invite Ukraine to join NATO now | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/4051618-invite-ukraine-to-join-nato-now/)

I would opine against such a move ...

As would I - unless the US was no longer a member.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on June 22, 2023, 09:18:04 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 22, 2023, 08:57:41 AM

Invite Ukraine to join NATO now | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/4051618-invite-ukraine-to-join-nato-now/)

I would opine against such a move ...

If Henry Kissinger says its the best course of action I would agree with it.  Nato is already in a proxy war and various members are threatened daily by Putin or one of his toadies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 22, 2023, 09:20:52 AM

Can we separate the Titanic submarine discussion from the political discussion?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 22, 2023, 09:22:37 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 22, 2023, 08:57:41 AM

Invite Ukraine to join NATO now | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/4051618-invite-ukraine-to-join-nato-now/)

I would opine against such a move ...

At this exact instant, I agree. However, at this meeting it would behoove the Alliance to draw up the procedures for admission once the Ukranians have cleaned the Russians out of their territory. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2023, 09:26:25 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 22, 2023, 09:20:52 AM

Can we separate the Titanic submarine discussion from the political discussion?

I tried...


But yes. Have at it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2023, 09:33:44 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on June 22, 2023, 09:22:37 AM

At this exact instant, I agree. However, at this meeting it would behoove the Alliance to draw up the procedures for admission once the Ukranians have cleaned the Russians out of their territory.

I don't foresee that happening, and NATO already has procedures for admission as it stands now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2023, 09:40:19 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on June 22, 2023, 09:18:04 AM

If Henry Kissinger says its the best course of action I would agree with it.  Nato is already in a proxy war and various members are threatened daily by Putin or one of his toadies.

Good point, but he wasn't always right. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 22, 2023, 10:01:18 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 22, 2023, 09:20:52 AM

Can we separate the Titanic submarine discussion from the political discussion?

naw we are a multi discussion group

in fact we should start a 3rd and a 4th discussion on other stuff and get them all going at the same time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 22, 2023, 10:05:56 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 22, 2023, 12:04:48 AM

Can we all agree that our justice system being influenced by a person's wealth is a bad thing?
I guess the counter argument would be that being wealthy makes it a perk?  Does anyone believe that?

Sure. But if we don't understand the ways that the wealth actually influences it (which are multiple and complex), we're just sort of bleating out into the void. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 22, 2023, 10:11:21 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2023, 07:07:56 AM

All I know is if I were HB and my name wasn't HB, I'd be going to jail. Nothing political about it, at all.

If you were you? Hmmmm?

TBH, I don't know what's on your record. If it reflected your pristine persona here, you'd have a decent chance to dodge jail time based on everything I've read. 

Shoot, I lived in a town where a local college athlete got in a fight on social media with another girl, then drove to that girl's house, got in a physical altercation and didn't serve jail time. We have a system that holds off on jail for a lot of things unless you establish a pattern. 

(If you've served time as a Chicago mob hitter, then you might be in some hot soup)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 22, 2023, 01:00:52 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 22, 2023, 09:20:52 AM

Can we separate the Titanic submarine discussion from the political discussion?

(https://y.yarn.co/1d3ac1e0-5c1b-4191-95b1-aef342988bc2_text.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 22, 2023, 01:15:52 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on June 22, 2023, 01:00:52 PM

(https://y.yarn.co/1d3ac1e0-5c1b-4191-95b1-aef342988bc2_text.gif)

That movie rules. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 22, 2023, 01:26:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 22, 2023, 12:04:48 AM

Can we all agree that our justice system being influenced by a person's wealth is a bad thing?
I guess the counter argument would be that being wealthy makes it a perk?  Does anyone believe that?

it's not just the justice system that is influenced by wealth, it's the entire damn system. and you're right, it's very wrong. 

I'd argue status/connections are even more important than one's wealth. Look at David Paetreus, far as I can tell he wasn't some super wealthy guy, but he was a four star general, CIA director, Washington insider, and he got nothing more than having to resign and got a small slap on the wrist for something the Obama administration routinely burned lower level people at the stake for.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 22, 2023, 01:28:01 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2023, 07:05:10 AM

Marshall was pretty smart. The US liberated your country. The US is making a base.

Yeah, sure. That's what we have all those bases for. Liberating people. Lol. Not to maintain dominance and hegemony over the entire world....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 22, 2023, 01:29:01 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 22, 2023, 08:57:41 AM

Invite Ukraine to join NATO now | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/4051618-invite-ukraine-to-join-nato-now/)

I would opine against such a move ...

yeah, that will totally de-escalate tensions. Lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2023, 01:31:49 PM

We have bases because we have security agreements all over the world.  It would be impossible to have those agreements and have no or few bases around.  If you don't like bases and military spending, you have to go after both by eliminating or reducing security agreements.

Force projection is very expensive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 22, 2023, 01:37:16 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2023, 09:15:20 AM

As would I - unless the US was no longer a member.

Yeah, what you're saying just doesn't make any sense. 

NATO is a gang, and the US is the leader of that gang. It fails to exist if the US is no longer a member. US will never leave NATO. It's one of the many tools which the US has used to dominate the entire world.

If you read about this extensively, as I have, you'd realize this sh!tshow has it's seeds in the Bush administration. His insane push to put Ukraine on a pathway to NATO membership back in the late 2000s was advised against and derided by everyone in his administration from Fiona Hill to current CIA director Will Burns. The man truly was a moron of epic proportions whose disastrous policies hurt this country and this world deeply in ways it has yet to recover from. I'm typically against prosecuting US Presidents, but he should've been prosecuted by the world court and thrown in the Hague. I realize that is a fantasy because US doesn't recognize that court and has even passed legislation authorizing any US President to bomb and invade the Hague if any Americans are tried and imprisoned there....

W was legitimately the biggest criminal of all the Presidents in US history and also arguably the worst President this country has ever had. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 22, 2023, 01:39:01 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on June 22, 2023, 09:18:04 AM

If Henry Kissinger says its the best course of action I would agree with it.  Nato is already in a proxy war and various members are threatened daily by Putin or one of his toadies.

if a vile war criminal like Henry Kissinger says so, then hey it must be right....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 22, 2023, 01:46:03 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 22, 2023, 01:15:52 PM

That movie rules.

"Jesus saves, George Nelson withdraws!"


"This band of miscreants, this very evening, interfered with a lynch mob in the performance of its duty."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 22, 2023, 01:47:33 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 22, 2023, 01:31:49 PM

We have bases because we have security agreements all over the world.  It would be impossible to have those agreements and have no or few bases around.  If you don't like bases and military spending, you have to go after both by eliminating or reducing security agreements.

Force projection is very expensive.

Lol. "Security agreements"....yeah, that's it. 

For example, all those bases in Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, UAE, are to protect the people and provide security! Not to prop up and support heinous oppressive murderous family dictatorships....we're the good guys! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2023, 01:53:04 PM

Like it or not, we do have explicit or implicit security arrangements with various countries, and feel the need to be able to project force from something other than aircraft carriers.

Ref-0213-US-Military-Bases-and-Facilities-Middle-East.pdf (americansecurityproject.org) (https://www.americansecurityproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Ref-0213-US-Military-Bases-and-Facilities-Middle-East.pdf)

I don't personally think of the UAE as a "murderous dictatorship".  It's an interesting place, I've been there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 22, 2023, 01:59:28 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 22, 2023, 01:39:01 PM

if a vile war criminal like Henry Kissinger says so, then hey it must be right....

He saw action in the Battle of the Bulge,joining the US army after his family fled the NAZI's in 1938 as soon as he was of age.Perhaps seeing Brezhnev/Mao behind the curtain in SE Asia may have spawned some of his decisions. Because as you know they always practiced fair play and courtly manners,Right? I'm convinced had a member of the Mdot clan got involved they could have got it sorted and a happy agreement arranged for all involved

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 22, 2023, 02:15:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 22, 2023, 01:53:04 PM

Like it or not, we do have explicit or implicit security arrangements with various countries, and feel the need to be able to project force from something other than aircraft carriers.

Ref-0213-US-Military-Bases-and-Facilities-Middle-East.pdf (americansecurityproject.org) (https://www.americansecurityproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Ref-0213-US-Military-Bases-and-Facilities-Middle-East.pdf)

I don't personally think of the UAE as a "murderous dictatorship".  It's an interesting place, I've been there.

lmfao yeah, you're right, UAE is totally a bastion of freedom. The tribal familial dictatorship there totally allows people freedom of expression, voting, formation of political parties, they never arrest people on trumped up charges, and totally never torture people either. Great humans rights record, that one! Lol.

US bases are for force projection/domination of the world. That's it. They do not exist to "provide security" or "promote freedom". That is propaganda. Fairytales children tell themselves.

US has long track record of having military bases in countries with horrific dictatorships and supporting those dictators to the hilt. For example Marcos in the Philippines, which at one point in the 80s, the US had close to 20,000 troops in bases in that country, all while Marcos was stealing the wealth of the country, imprisoning people without charge, torturing, and slaughtering hundreds of thousands of his own citizens and ruling that country with an iron fist. The US supported Marcos right to the end, and then when that dictatorship was toppled and the new govt kicked the US out, the US allowed Marcos and his family safe harbor and they were exiled to the US. His son actually just took power in the Philippines, and wouldn't you know, US is going hard in the paint and just secured a deal this year with the Marcos JR govt to return to the Philippines and open 4 new military bases there.....crazy how that works....what a coincidence.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 22, 2023, 02:49:56 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 22, 2023, 01:28:01 PM

Yeah, sure. That's what we have all those bases for. Liberating people. Lol. Not to maintain dominance and hegemony over the entire world....

I didn't say it wasn't that. It is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on June 22, 2023, 05:24:25 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on June 22, 2023, 01:37:16 PM

 It's one of the many tools which the US has used to dominate the entire world.

TBH, I'm perfectly OK with the US dominating the entire world.  It's worked out A-OK for the last 80+ years, even if we had to spill some blood along the way.  And we only kill those who "need" killin'.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2023, 05:33:55 PM

The UAE occupies a rather critical "choke point" for international trade, and is across from a country that speaks harshly about the US and our allies, I'd think our bases there are more oriented to Iran than propping up UAE (which doesn't need our help in that regard anyway).  The concept, in theory, is to prevent conflict by being in position if anything bad happens.

Now, one can argue we should leave these areas alone and let them all deal with whatever themselves.  But the bases do provide for the US to project force without an aicraft carrier.  I don't believe we have these bases to prop up evil dictatorships, that makes no sense to me.  We have them to deter potential enemies.

(The UAE is an interesting place and I wonder if they have longer term stability with their social structure and treatment of workers.  It's hypermodern in most places, I wondered where they got all that money ....  ).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 22, 2023, 06:01:59 PM

Quote from: Gigem on June 22, 2023, 05:24:25 PM

TBH, I'm perfectly OK with the US dominating the entire world.  It's worked out A-OK for the last 80+ years, even if we had to spill some blood along the way.  And we only kill those who "need" killin'. 

Great, I wonder if those killed see it that way.
Aside from that, just imagine you were born and grew up in a marginal, ho-hum country.  Over the course of your lifetime, some other country that doesn't speak your language or seems to share many of your culture's values dominates the entire globe, militarily.  It's defense budget is as much as the next 13 countries, 12 of which are allies.  
And when that country was directly attacked, it took over another country having nothing to do with that attack.
.
I doubt you'd be "perfectly OK" with that country.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 22, 2023, 07:01:05 PM

Quote from: Gigem on June 22, 2023, 05:24:25 PM

TBH, I'm perfectly OK with the US dominating the entire world.  It's worked out A-OK for the last 80+ years, even if we had to spill some blood along the way.  And we only kill those who "need" killin'. 

to be clear, I am OK with the US being the dominant force in the world. I'm an American. It's good for me. It's good for the people of this country. I want America to be #1 in the world. Selfishly.

I just do not buy into the BS that we do it out of the goodness of our hearts because we are such good guys that want to promote freedom or provide security to people's of the world. That is just pure propaganda. We do it because we can and because it allows us to wield enormous power and influence over the entire world. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 22, 2023, 07:11:10 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 22, 2023, 05:33:55 PM

The UAE occupies a rather critical "choke point" for international trade, and is across from a country that speaks harshly about the US and our allies, I'd think our bases there are more oriented to Iran than propping up UAE (which doesn't need our help in that regard anyway).  The concept, in theory, is to prevent conflict by being in position if anything bad happens.

Now, one can argue we should leave these areas alone and let them all deal with whatever themselves.  But the bases do provide for the US to project force without an aicraft carrier.  I don't believe we have these bases to prop up evil dictatorships, that makes no sense to me.  We have them to deter potential enemies.

(The UAE is an interesting place and I wonder if they have longer term stability with their social structure and treatment of workers.  It's hypermodern in most places, I wondered where they got all that money ....  ).

where do you think all of those Gulf family dictatorship states have gotten vast majority of their weapons systems & military/intelligence training from? the US military industrial complex. they all absolutely need our help in maintaining & modernizing their militaries and intelligence services- which they in turn use to maintain their dictatorships.

Glad you brought up Iran, a country that wouldn't be as royally fked up as it is today if the US and it's CIA hadn't overthrown a democratically elected secularist gov't in 1953 and installed a puppet dictator who proceeded to rape, pillage, jail, torture, and murder an entire country for the next 26 years before the people inside that country finally rose up and deposed him. In that power vacuum a bunch of nut-job theocrats seized power and well it's been a total fkn sh!tshow ever since. Just another complete failure in a long list of horrific blowback that winds up biting us in the arse in the long run from the CIA/US State Dept doing shady fked up illegal things all around the world.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 22, 2023, 07:11:54 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 22, 2023, 06:01:59 PM

Great, I wonder if those killed see it that way.
Aside from that, just imagine you were born and grew up in a marginal, ho-hum country.  Over the course of your lifetime, some other country that doesn't speak your language or seems to share many of your culture's values dominates the entire globe, militarily.  It's defense budget is as much as the next 13 countries, 12 of which are allies. 
And when that country was directly attacked, it took over another country having nothing to do with that attack.
.
I doubt you'd be "perfectly OK" with that country. 

it continually amazes me that people can never just put themselves in the shoes of others for like a split second....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 22, 2023, 07:27:28 PM

Quote from: Gigem on June 22, 2023, 05:24:25 PM

TBH, I'm perfectly OK with the US dominating the entire world.  It's worked out A-OK for the last 80+ years, even if we had to spill some blood along the way.  And we only kill those who "need" killin'. 

And we often kill a bunch of people who don't "need killin"..... there was zero justification for the US to launch a full scale invasion and occupation of Iraq. That was one of the greatest crimes this country has ever committed. Or to stay in Afghanistan for 20+ f'n years. Or to bomb the shit out of Libya. Or to launch operation timber sycamore in Syria (in which US basically armed terrorist AQ off-shoots to fight the Assad regime) and then proceed to bomb the living fkn sh!t out of that country for years. US is still occupying 1/3rd of Syria as we speak by the way....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on June 22, 2023, 08:56:09 PM

You might say that Nazi Germany lost WWII because they chose to foolishly invade the Soviet Union, and then Hitler ignored his best Generals advice and made foolish blunder after foolish blunder. But you really can’t, because I firmly believe that without the United States assistance in terms of machinery, man power, ships, and economic support there is no way Britain would have been successful in invading from the West, forcing the Germans to wage war on two fronts. Germany may have been able to fight Russia to a stand-still at the vertical least, and Britain would’ve happily kept their island Nation status a bit longer. 

Instead, with the US help, Russia and the rest of the allies defeated the Nazis. But we just didn’t stop there. We were smart enough to recognize the events from the end of WWI led to WWII, and we helped rebuild not just the bystander countries as well as Germany. Then we helped them re-establish a democratic government, and pretty much let them rule themself. 

All we asked in return was enough space to bury our dead and a few military bases. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on June 22, 2023, 09:00:59 PM

Meanwhile Stalin and his successors literally murdered millions more, put them in the Gulag for life, persecuted anybody who did not agree with their ideology. 

No freedom, no escape. Remember the iron curtain and the Berlin Wall?  That was actually a thing. And China and Mao have probably done worse, but they had enough sense to hide behind cheap labor and goods instead of becoming instant enemies they crept it up really slow. 

Remember, we had Nukes for almost 5 years before the Russians. We could have taken them out ( Stalin and his murdering dickface cronies), but chose not to. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on June 22, 2023, 09:08:33 PM

Western Europe has flourished. And guess what, there hasn’t been a real European war since. 

And yes, Vietnam happened, and Korea, and all of the little wars in between, but IMO those are nothing compared to WW1 and WW2. But we’re not perfect, and we definitely used things to our advantage when we could, and did some bad along the way. 

And what I’m trying to say is SOMEBODY has got to be top dog, and I’d say for the most part we’ve done a bang up job in that regard. 

You’ll find out soon enough about China and their motivations. I just hope that when the shooting starts I can convince my kids and someday grandkids to stay out of it unless their troops are landing here. But I really don’t want anymore American blood spilled in some foreign country.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 22, 2023, 09:28:26 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 22, 2023, 05:33:55 PM

I don't believe we have these bases to prop up evil dictatorships, that makes no sense to me.  We have them to deter potential enemies.

we certainly have propped up evil dictatorships to deter potential enemies

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 22, 2023, 09:32:09 PM

I agree with a lot of what you said. The new world order, of which the US has been kingshit and leader of, has in general kept the world out of catastrophic wars like WWI and WWII. No denying that, because it's true. But I also wonder how much of that had to do with the US and USSR developing nuclear weapons literally thousands of times more powerful than the ones the US dropped in Japan and building up their nuclear arsenals to the point where any major world war directly involving the two would basically be a guaranteed extinction level event. Mutually assured destruction and all that jazz. I'd guess that tends to keep both sides say ya know what, it's not really worth ending the human race over anything....which is crazy for me to say because I hate the damn things and wish they'd never been built.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on June 22, 2023, 09:37:50 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 22, 2023, 09:28:26 PM

we certainly have propped up evil dictatorships to deter potential enemies

I'd say that has nothing to do with being a deterrent to potential enemies, more to do with exploitation of natural resources (see Iran, 1953), access to natural resources/markets, or striking deals that are highly valuable and economically favorable to US (see Saudis, 1971).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 22, 2023, 09:39:56 PM

well, when you prop up one evil dictator so that a commie government can't take power............

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 23, 2023, 04:55:00 AM

Quote from: Gigem on June 22, 2023, 09:08:33 PM

And what I’m trying to say is SOMEBODY has got to be top dog, and I’d say for the most part we’ve done a bang up job in that regard.

This makes me wonder.  What is an example of something bad the U.S. could have done along the way to make you NOT say this?
We've attacked and taken over a country having nothing to do with an attack on ours (Iraq).
We've parlayed our irrational(?) fear of the spread of communism into wars in Korea and Vietnam. 
We can (and do) economically bully anyone we want to.
We've made the UN our puppet.
We have bases around the world and use phrases like "national defense" and "best interests" as a rationale for any action we wish, while using those bases (and carriers and subs) to enact them.
.
Since the end of WWII, have we been a good world police?  We've done a lot of good (I assume), but the above question is a genuine one. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 23, 2023, 04:56:54 AM

*something realistic

Don't say we haven't invaded Canada, because it would be a waste of time to do that and wouldn't yield anything.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 23, 2023, 04:59:31 AM

And I do have to say, the severe fear of the spread of communism confuses me.

If it's such a piss-poor system, why not just let it play out and have those who implement it find that out on their own?  
Our actions are those of someone fearful of the system succeeding and eventually spreading on it's merits, no?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 06:29:52 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 22, 2023, 09:28:26 PM

we certainly have propped up evil dictatorships to deter potential enemies

We certainly have, but I don't think we're in the UAE for example for that reason.  Nor in Japan or South Korea or Germany et al.We're there to project power and in theory deter wider conflict and ensure "freedom of the seas".  There are plenty of dictatorships we have not propped up that have failed and we were not interested because they were not in strategic positions.

We allied with Stalin in WW 2 in a huge way for obvious reasons, not to prop him up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 23, 2023, 07:26:31 AM

we certainly have

usually spouting later about the lesser of two evils

perhaps even taking out the evil dictator later when the original enemy threat is no longer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 07:38:31 AM

Every country needs "real politik" in their foreign policy.  I guess it sounds good to rail on and on about supporting dictators, but in many cases, the alternative is simply worse.  And as I've said, merely  having a base in some dictator's back yard doesn't mean we are actively keeping him in power.  It probably means it's a strategically critical location.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on June 23, 2023, 07:53:57 AM

I believe Bush genuinely thought Saddam Hussein was a genuine threat to the Middle East region and thought we would be seen as liberators. Remember, they call it Operation Iraqi Freedom?  

They had no idea that they were dealing with a population that is 600 years behind ours. The whole split Muslim thing is not well understood by most Westeners. Shia, Sunni May as well be Jews and Nazis. I don’t think you’ll find many people who support what we did over there 20 years later. 

I often wonder how Iraq is doing now?  The media doesn’t report on it much, and the whole Syria civil war took much of the spot light away from Iraq. But I have no idea if they are a dictatorship again, democracy, or what. Did Isis take it over?  How do most of the Iraqi people feel about the American people 20 years later?  Maybe some think we tried but just couldn’t get it done. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on June 23, 2023, 08:06:04 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 23, 2023, 04:59:31 AM

And I do have to say, the severe fear of the spread of communism confuses me.

If it's such a piss-poor system, why not just let it play out and have those who implement it find that out on their own? 
Our actions are those of someone fearful of the system succeeding and eventually spreading on it's merits, no? 

Lots of people are subject to communism who don’t want it including North Korea and S Vietnam ( from the 60’s and 70’s). I think most people in Vietnam are ok with how their country has evolved.  Almost all of the eastern block countries ditched communism after the Iron Curtain fell. 

what Stalin and Mao did was justification enough. It was about these dictatorships and their power than it was their form of government. 

Afterall, I think most educated people realize that most communist countries are not actually communist, but dictatorships that are disguised as communists. North Korea is a prime example as is China. I honestly have never researched exactly what entails a true communist country, other than a set of ideas about ownership of means of production etc.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 08:07:26 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/xdmyHQ7.png)

This of course is but one metric, GDP Iraq in US dollars, they seem to be doing "OK" by this one.

Iraqis Look Back: Is Life Better Today? (gallup.com) (https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/472253/looking-back-iraq-life-better-today.aspx)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on June 23, 2023, 08:11:42 AM

Also, we could have nuked Russia for almost 5 years and chose not to. We could have used nukes in N Korea and chose not to ( McAuther wanted to). We could have occupied and ruled Western Europe but chose not to. Sure, invading Iraq was wrong, but we spent a hell of a lot of money trying to build them up. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 23, 2023, 08:26:35 AM

Quote from: Gigem on June 23, 2023, 08:06:04 AM

Lots of people are subject to communism who don’t want it including North Korea and S Vietnam ( from the 60’s and 70’s). I think most people in Vietnam are ok with how their country has evolved.  Almost all of the eastern block countries ditched communism after the Iron Curtain fell.

what Stalin and Mao did was justification enough. It was about these dictatorships and their power than it was their form of government.

Afterall, I think most educated people realize that most communist countries are not actually communist, but dictatorships that are disguised as communists. North Korea is a prime example as is China. I honestly have never researched exactly what entails a true communist country, other than a set of ideas about ownership of means of production etc. 

There are a ton of people in Florida who are here because they were NOT happy in their home country. They are glad to be here, unlike some of our own citizens.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 23, 2023, 08:28:38 AM

ton of people in Texas that didn't like their home state

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 08:35:51 AM

We had an interesting experience in Israel visiting a kibbutz.  Our "guide" went on and on about how great it was because everyone shared everything.  It basically was small scale communism, as he described it.  He mentioned at one point that a few folks took advantage and did little or nothing which of course is the Achilles heel of that approach.  But if you have perfect people ...

My experience with a Big Company I compared to communism at times, a lot of folks did little or nothing.  The laughed at anyone who actually tried because they'd watch them rarely getting promoted.  The "bosses" were the worst offenders, work ethic got better as you went down the chain.  It was very rare that anyone was fired, and then it was usually "for cause".  One old motto is "root hog or die", which describes how humans are motivated.

Humans need incentives to work.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 23, 2023, 08:49:56 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 23, 2023, 08:28:38 AM

ton of people in Texas that didn't like their home state

Very true. And AZ and NV.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 09:07:17 AM

Backers say Las Vegas high-speed rail finally on track after decades of disappointment – The Nevada Independent (https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/backers-say-las-vegas-high-speed-rail-finally-on-track-after-decades-of-disappointment)

Interesting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 10:05:02 AM

MARTA picks designer for streetcar extension into Atlanta BeltLine | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/marta-picks-designer-streetcar-extension-ponce-city-market-images)

The current streetcar thing here is a complete bust, I fear this extension could remain that way, and take up room now being used for walking/biking/etc.  The Cincy streetcar was/is also a bust.  Now, MAYBE this is sufficient to get more ridership, maybe, hopefully.  I'm dubious.  Maybe someday they extend it up to Lindberg and Emory.  MAYBE that would be a thing.

Now they have busses, MARTA cars, and streecars to maintain and repair.  It would be more efficient of course to have just MARTA cars (and busses).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 10:10:20 AM

ttps://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/37901369/les-miles-hall-fame-eligibility-hurt-lsu-vacated-wins

LSU football vacated the wins from 2012 to 2015 because of recruiting violations stemming from impermissible benefits paid to the father of former player Vadal Alexander by a former booster. The school self-imposed the penalty, which was revealed for the first time Thursday, after receiving a notice of allegations from the NCAA in March 2022. Alexander competed for LSU from 2012 to 2015.

Miles, who coached LSU from 2005 to 2016, went 114-34 at the school and won a national title in 2007. His overall coaching record at Oklahoma State, LSU and Kansas had been 145-73, a winning percentage of .665. Coaches must have a career winning percentage of .600 in at least 100 games to qualify for selection to the College Football Hall of Fame.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 11:21:44 AM

Supreme Court upholds ban on encouraging illegal immigration | The Hill (https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4064273-supreme-court-upholds-ban-on-encouraging-illegal-immigration/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 05:01:31 PM

https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/census-atl-growth-population-how-much-more

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 23, 2023, 05:09:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 11:21:44 AM

Supreme Court upholds ban on encouraging illegal immigration | The Hill (https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4064273-supreme-court-upholds-ban-on-encouraging-illegal-immigration/)

Would like to see a lawyer’s read on it, but that description is odd. Or the law’s language is just weird. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 23, 2023, 06:07:57 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 23, 2023, 05:09:13 PM

Would like to see a lawyer’s read on it, but that description is odd. Or the law’s language is just weird.

The law bans people from "encouraging or inducing" illegal immigration. This guy scams a bunch of would be immigrants into paying money to be "adopted" and then becoming United States citizens. He is very properly convicted under the statute. But he says this statute is unconstitutional - it also appears to ban conduct protected under the First Amendment, like saying illegal immigration is a stupid concept and the more immigrants we have the better (things I've said on this board). He says the law should be thrown out and his convictions overturned.

Courts can allow people, even evil scammers like this guy, to challenge the law as being overbroad, in that it prohibits conduct allowed by the Constitution. This is justified by the idea that if we let Congress just make any old law outlawing anything, good proper citizens will follow the law even though it is illegal and then it will never be properly challenged. Indeed, the Ninth Circuit found the law was overbroad and shouldn't be valid. SCOTUS overturned this, saying "encouraging" and "inducing" only apply to non-protected conduct like what this guy did.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on June 23, 2023, 11:28:33 PM

So here is some "in other news"

Sports gambling has opened in many states- this after jersey and later others joining that case took it to the Supreme Court that Vegas ought not be allowed to be the only legal sports book in the nation.

Yeah... fair... all that... not.

Crypto and off shore books put a hurtin on the Vegas books and, like dope (grass) the desire for another tax stream is pushing it. 

Bunches of states do it now, and with various rules.

I wasn't going to pay the pact including new jersey $100k annually for a license and then have to go there physically to cash a check... so I wait for NC to pass some form... its been in the legislation and punted to the next session several times now.

It looks like it's going to clear this time. 

I'll be studying on the policies. 

There will be gambling here.  Or, maybe and perhaps there will be gambling on another site such as cfb51-line was originally going to be before it got punted one year.  One or the other, maybe that'll cover the costs of this place.  I know me and two others that would like to see more than just the costs covered....  but at what cost?

Decision time approaches.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 24, 2023, 08:12:52 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 23, 2023, 04:56:54 AM

*something realistic

Don't say we haven't invaded Canada, because it would be a waste of time to do that and wouldn't yield anything. 

You live in a freakin' desert,Canada is georgeous - walleye/perch/pike/fresh water and lots of it. And French Canadian Chics are gorgeous/glorious.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2023, 08:37:44 AM

Some major things happening in Russia now, hard to get a clear view of course.

Analysis: Moscow is at risk of losing its iron grip on power in Russia. The next 24 hours are critical | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/24/europe/russia-putin-wagner-prigozhin-analysis-intl/index.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2023, 08:50:19 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 24, 2023, 08:37:44 AM

Some major things happening in Russia now, hard to get a clear view of course.

Analysis: Moscow is at risk of losing its iron grip on power in Russia. The next 24 hours are critical | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/24/europe/russia-putin-wagner-prigozhin-analysis-intl/index.html)

Yep. This could be the end of Putin. This Wagner guy is no joke.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-shoots-down-russian-cruise-missile-barrage-9d9da03a?st=cwmsoxe8wsqu1r9&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

(https://i.imgur.com/aOdofam.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2023, 10:07:52 AM

I'm tired of Putin

who replaces him might be worser, but I'll go for what's behind door #2

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2023, 10:31:28 AM

European leaders convene emergency meetings in response to ‘chaos’ in Russia | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/international/4065792-european-leaders-convene-emergency-meetings-in-response-to-chaos-in-russia/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2023, 11:07:49 AM

Gonna be interesting.

If Putin senses defeat, will he pull the nuke trigger?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2023, 11:13:19 AM

I don't see how that would help him personally, versus getting out of Dodge.  I'm not sure where he would bail, some rumor is the President of Belarus has left town.

I also don't see how this Wagner group has the power to "march on Moscow", if they are attempting  it.  There could be some significant civil war inside Russia now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2023, 12:04:46 PM

Dramatic headline, but some useful reading.

Russia Slides Into Civil War (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-slides-into-civil-war/ar-AA1cYkCA)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2023, 12:06:24 PM

Putin's presidential plane was spotted leaving Moscow amid Wagner's uprising (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-s-presidential-plane-was-spotted-leaving-moscow-amid-wagner-s-uprising/ar-AA1cYNbH?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=82d0376040dd44cfb5aebfdd39e1906c&ei=11)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2023, 06:13:23 PM

Putin should escape via submarine

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2023, 07:01:24 PM

Sounds like it’s over

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 25, 2023, 09:21:40 AM

I think it's just getting started, but it's hard to tell. No reliable news media in that country.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 25, 2023, 09:35:07 AM

Belarus saved Putin at the last minute from an armed rebellion by the Wagner group (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/belarus-saved-putin-at-the-last-minute-from-an-armed-rebellion-by-the-wagner-group/ss-AA1d0bGk?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=ba54515a734f4985bcc0840988f9d404&ei=20)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2023, 09:43:36 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 25, 2023, 09:21:40 AM

I think it's just getting started, but it's hard to tell. No reliable news media in that country.

I agree with you, I was thinking this specific event was over, the "march on Moscow" etc.  I read that it's a sign they could move that far without any real resistance.

Blinken: Prigozhin’s rebellion ‘shows real cracks’ in Russia | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/international/4066729-blinken-on-prigozhins-rebellion-it-shows-real-cracks-in-russia/)

As for the possibility a Putin replacement could be worse, I doubt it, because they would not be nearly as powerful initially.  They would need to spend time and effort solidifying their position.  Maybe in the longer run they could be worse, I'm not sure how.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 25, 2023, 09:56:35 AM

If that Wagner guy became leader, it would be worse. The World dodged a bullet on that one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 25, 2023, 10:11:06 AM

that might not be over either

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2023, 10:15:25 AM

I think (?) it would be unusual to replace Putin with another who was as autocratic and effective at being that.  They do have "elections" of a sort there.  Putin does an effective job at presenting himself as a strong leader that Russians tend to admire and respect.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on June 25, 2023, 10:27:48 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 25, 2023, 10:15:25 AM

I think (?) it would be unusual to replace Putin with another who was as autocratic and effective at being that.  They do have "elections" of a sort there.  Putin does an effective job at presenting himself as a strong leader that Russians tend to admire and respect.

He presented himself as strong until yesterday. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on June 26, 2023, 06:55:48 AM

I don't think its over yet.  If Prigozhin's army of mercenaries start to show up around him in Belarus it might be a plot to overthrow Lukashenko or invade Ukraine from the north.  That's my contribution to the conspiracy theory bucket.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 26, 2023, 09:12:50 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/KiYa7j6.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 26, 2023, 09:48:00 PM

Two of the world’s richest men have seemingly agreed to a cage match, according to their social media accounts.

Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla and Twitter, joked on his social media platform Tuesday that he’s "up for a cage match" against Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg, but only "if he is lol."


"Send me location," Zuckerberg replied in an Instagram story.

Musk mentioned the cage match in response to reports that Meta, which owns Facebook and Instagram, is launching another app to compete with Twitter. Musk paid $44 billion for Twitter and took over as CEO in October.

Zuckerberg, 39, has been mastering the martial art of jiu jitsu and competed in his first tournament in May, his Facebook posts show.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2023, 07:34:30 AM

No. 1 prospect Dylan Raiola is transferring from Arizona to Georgia power Buford.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2023, 09:55:42 AM

HSBC: Global economies are out of sync; 2024 will be a ‘year of contraction’ (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/27/hsbc-global-economies-are-out-of-sync-2024-will-be-a-year-of-contraction.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2023, 10:05:28 AM

2024 seems like years away

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on June 27, 2023, 10:14:17 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 27, 2023, 07:34:30 AM

No. 1 prospect Dylan Raiola is transferring from Arizona to Georgia power Buford.

I would be cautious about him.  I think he has transferred High Schools at least 3 times.  He has "committed" to I think this is the 3rd or 4th school.

That said he is quite the QB, I had the change to see him live last season. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2023, 10:19:46 AM

He committed to Ohio State and then to UGA.  I think the fact he's now playing in GA means it's done.  That Buford program is a powerhouse, when I was a kid, they were way out in the boonies with not much of anything.  That's one reason the state has become a hot bed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2023, 10:37:34 AM

Supreme Court justices rule state lawmakers do not have exclusive control over elections in key decision | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/justices-rule-state-lawmakers-exclusive-control-elections-key-decision)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 27, 2023, 10:48:13 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 27, 2023, 10:37:34 AM

Supreme Court justices rule state lawmakers do not have exclusive control over elections in key decision | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/justices-rule-state-lawmakers-exclusive-control-elections-key-decision)

this is a big deal

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 27, 2023, 10:53:37 AM

New Jersey residents are now the only people in the US not smart enough to pump their own gas.

https://autos.yahoo.com/oregon-ends-72-ban-pumping-183200983.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2023, 10:55:10 AM

Student loan debt: Borrowers brace for Supreme Court decision | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/education/4068249-student-loan-debt-borrowers-brace-for-supreme-court-decision/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 27, 2023, 11:15:34 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 27, 2023, 10:53:37 AM

New Jersey residents are now the only people in the US not smart enough to pump their own gas.

https://autos.yahoo.com/oregon-ends-72-ban-pumping-183200983.html

Its been that way in NJ for at least the last 50 years

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 27, 2023, 11:15:48 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 27, 2023, 10:55:10 AM

Student loan debt: Borrowers brace for Supreme Court decision | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/education/4068249-student-loan-debt-borrowers-brace-for-supreme-court-decision/)

Let's hope they make the right decision.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 27, 2023, 11:28:38 AM

State Achieves Goal Of Having Every Road Under Construction At The Same Time | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/state-successfully-has-every-single-road-under-construction-at-the-same-time?utm_source=The Babylon Bee)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 27, 2023, 11:32:59 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 27, 2023, 11:15:34 AM

Its been that way in NJ for at least the last 50 years

Now only in Jersey.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2023, 11:47:22 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 27, 2023, 10:53:37 AM

New Jersey residents are now the only people in the US not smart enough to pump their own gas.

https://autos.yahoo.com/oregon-ends-72-ban-pumping-183200983.html

probably struggle with self checkout at Walmart as well

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2023, 12:46:12 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 27, 2023, 11:28:38 AM

State Achieves Goal Of Having Every Road Under Construction At The Same Time | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/state-successfully-has-every-single-road-under-construction-at-the-same-time?utm_source=The Babylon Bee)

A building near us had a ped bridge from its parking lot to the building across Juniper Street, makes sense.  But they decided to remove it, over the weekend, but didn't finish.  With the road closed, traffic was a nightmare.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2023, 01:23:41 PM

For the front of the Tuesday, June 27, 2023 edition of the Journal: "Voter Registrations Challenged: Sioux City attorney Jim Carlin cracking down on voters who moved away"

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/356810706_669503531857111_4240005034567680870_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=3TF1sZrh-tAAX_0JQZt&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAGoQbX3J6zIkGSkuYxTeFMMOJ_v_x_x7jMqkAqMATf9Q&oe=64A02167)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 27, 2023, 01:58:11 PM

For @FearlessF (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10) -- we talked earlier (in the climate thread) about how to determine whether a source is trustworthy in the absence of detailed knowledge of a topic. I.e. how to tell if the "experts" are actually experts worth listening to or full of $#!+. 

David Friedman (libertarian economist and the son of Milton Friedman) has a post I just came across on this:

https://daviddfriedman.substack.com/p/who-to-trust

It goes into a little more depth than some of the things @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) and I talked about in the climate thread. 

Worth a read IMHO.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2023, 02:01:43 PM

thanks

checking the photo above.......... it seems I've been spreading the news for utee94.
more folks moving from my county to Cali than Texas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on June 28, 2023, 07:54:23 AM

And in keeping with the 51 in this sites name:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2023/06/27/rubio_on_ufo_whistleblowers_some_of_these_claims_are_beyond_the_realm_of_what_weve_ever_dealt_with.html (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2023/06/27/rubio_on_ufo_whistleblowers_some_of_these_claims_are_beyond_the_realm_of_what_weve_ever_dealt_with.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 28, 2023, 08:08:07 AM

Harvard behavior scientist who studied honesty accused of fabricating data (nypost.com) (https://nypost.com/2023/06/24/harvard-behavior-scientist-who-studied-honesty-accused-of-fabricating-data/?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=nypost&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR3ujK7vNZlYdUE5PXFv9PEjbjTNLHv1wH4YcBuHku5SEzLZps55iXXnSJU)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 28, 2023, 08:16:52 AM

an "expert" in his field!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2023, 08:57:04 AM

Letter to the editor: ProPublica’s big story is that Justice Samuel Alito went on the fishing trip and then agreed with six other justices who didn’t go on the fishing trip, forming a 7–1 majority? That isn’t exactly man-bites-dog news.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 29, 2023, 08:59:37 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 27, 2023, 02:01:43 PM

thanks

checking the photo above.......... it seems I've been spreading the news for utee94.
more folks moving from my county to Cali than Texas

Thank You For Your Support

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2023, 09:12:49 AM

We like watching Bret Baier on Fox - 6PM. He's not a blowhard at all, gets good/smart/bi-partisan guests and he runs his show like a journalist should. 

Anyway, we've noticed over the past month or so that when that show is over and the next one starts (Watters, for now - we generally don't watch him), Hulu kicks us out of the channel and back to the home screen - roughly 5-10 seconds in. 

Just for kicks and testing, the last few nights I've gone to Fox News when other shows begin, and the same thing happened. 

Fox News is being intentionally shut off by Hulu, I believe. This does not happen on any other channel we look at.

Anyone else have this kind of stuff happen? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 29, 2023, 09:26:10 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2023, 09:12:49 AM

Anyone else have this kind of stuff happen?

I have all sorts of weird stuff happen with Hulu. Their UI is not very good at all, and the service can be buggy sometimes. 

I have not seen this, but I've seen on nearly every program when it switches from one live show to another, it has a 5-10 second buffering pause within the first minute or so where the screen goes black with only a little tiny progress bar in the center. 

So this might just be Hulu being Hulu, not actively trying to mess with Fox News...


(https://i.imgur.com/2yztnWT.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on June 29, 2023, 09:26:36 AM

I've been occasionally booted out of what I'm watching on Hulu and sent back to the initial login screen.  I'm not sure if it was limited to Fox News.  Going forward I'll take closer note of the circumstances when it happens.

That interview of the IRS Supervisor whistleblower Gary Shapley Jr last night by Bret Baier was something. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2023, 09:41:08 AM

https://thehill.com/business/4073273-us-economy-grew-much-faster-i%20n-first-quarter-revised-data-shows/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2023, 09:45:56 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on June 29, 2023, 09:26:36 AM

I've been occasionally booted out of what I'm watching on Hulu and sent back to the initial login screen.  I'm not sure if it was limited to Fox News.  Going forward I'll take closer note of the circumstances when it happens.

That interview of the IRS Supervisor whistleblower Gary Shapley Jr last night by Bret Baier was something. 

And scary.


Again, we've been getting booted regularly, and it has only been Fox News. It doesn't matter to us, because we don't watch the other shows. I'm just trying to figure out why. The spooling thing is annoying too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2023, 09:48:08 AM

We're on satellite, the only time I watch news briefly is when there is a commercial on the Braves game and I switch to a channel that has CNN/Fox/MSNBC/BBC news on at the same time.  It's interesting to see which stories are being featured.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 29, 2023, 09:58:56 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2023, 09:45:56 AM

And scary.


Again, we've been getting booted regularly, and it has only been Fox News. It doesn't matter to us, because we don't watch the other shows. I'm just trying to figure out why. The spooling thing is annoying too.

In these times of streaming services overtaking cable, it probably is worth trying to figure out who owns what.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 29, 2023, 10:03:42 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2023, 09:12:49 AM

We like watching Bret Baier on Fox - 6PM. He's not a blowhard at all, gets good/smart/bi-partisan guests and he runs his show like a journalist should.

Anyway, we've noticed over the past month or so that when that show is over and the next one starts (Watters, for now - we generally don't watch him), Hulu kicks us out of the channel and back to the home screen - roughly 5-10 seconds in.

Just for kicks and testing, the last few nights I've gone to Fox News when other shows begin, and the same thing happened.

Fox News is being intentionally shut off by Hulu, I believe. This does not happen on any other channel we look at.

Anyone else have this kind of stuff happen?

It’s possible this is a dirty trick.

Much more likely it’s crappy tech, maybe augmented by something crappy with Fox’s tech. I wonder if however Hulu let’s you record shows has something to do with it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 29, 2023, 10:15:07 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 29, 2023, 09:58:56 AM

In these times of streaming services overtaking cable, it probably is worth trying to figure out who owns what.

Hulu is owned by the mouse. 

(Wiki actually says it's 67% the mouse, 33% Comcast thru NBCUniversal, but the 33% is being sold to the mouse with the sale currently pending.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2023, 10:21:25 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 29, 2023, 10:15:07 AM

Hulu is owned by the mouse.

(Wiki actually says it's 67% the mouse, 33% Comcast thru NBCUniversal, but the 33% is being sold to the mouse with the sale currently pending.)

(https://i.imgur.com/9xo1PBk.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2023, 10:23:31 AM

It's moot anyway, for us. In a few weeks we will be switching. Our internet provider is installing fiber through our neighborhood and they also provide you with their own version of a Roku, and their own content.

We might have to pay more to get BTN, etc., but it's not clear yet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 29, 2023, 10:24:06 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2023, 10:21:25 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/9xo1PBk.png)

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/Q8y5lBigYQ7X1wYbqK/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952xve35nzjiymxsgrwq70qpwgq47l3ev57cjbwagmr&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2023, 10:27:37 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 29, 2023, 10:24:06 AM

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/Q8y5lBigYQ7X1wYbqK/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952xve35nzjiymxsgrwq70qpwgq47l3ev57cjbwagmr&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)

I probably found it first, ya bastage. I was on a phone call.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 29, 2023, 10:28:02 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 29, 2023, 10:03:42 AM

It’s possible this is a dirty trick.

Much more likely it’s crappy tech, maybe augmented by something crappy with Fox’s tech. I wonder if however Hulu let’s you record shows has something to do with it.

My biggest problem with Hulu is it will sometimes skip the end of a show at a commercial break and start the next episode.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 29, 2023, 10:32:02 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2023, 10:23:31 AM

It's moot anyway, for us. In a few weeks we will be switching. Our internet provider is installing fiber through our neighborhood and they also provide you with their own version of a Roku, and their own content.

We might have to pay more to get BTN, etc., but it's not clear yet.

Does Roku provide something with FoxNews? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2023, 10:35:15 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 29, 2023, 10:32:02 AM

Does Roku provide something with FoxNews?

I don't think so. Their offerings are more fringe, for the most part.

Like Newsmax stuff and far left stuff... which we don't look at.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 29, 2023, 10:40:32 AM

I’ve been very happy with YouTube TV. A little worried the price is gonna go up with the new NFL deal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 29, 2023, 10:41:06 AM

It’s also amazing what a business misstep this entire streaming process has been.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 29, 2023, 10:45:46 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 29, 2023, 10:40:32 AM

I’ve been very happy with YouTube TV. A little worried the price is gonna go up with the new NFL deal.

Does YouTube TV have collections of old shows you can watch? I have never signed up for it, wasn't sure how it compared to Hulu in how it worked.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 29, 2023, 10:47:26 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 29, 2023, 10:41:06 AM

It’s also amazing what a business misstep this entire streaming process has been.

How so? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2023, 10:56:02 AM

I remember back in the day when I went to streaming, I bought Roku stuff on the recommendation of a long-lost poster called BWarbiany. 

He was a good dude.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2023, 10:58:35 AM

Sounds like some of Putin's generals and commanders are starting to disappear. The purge begins and the little man grabs the power.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on June 29, 2023, 11:16:23 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 29, 2023, 10:41:06 AM

It’s also amazing what a business misstep this entire streaming process has been.

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 29, 2023, 10:47:26 AM

How so?

Netflix was able to reach unbelievable profitability while it was the only show in town. Their success made the prospects of streaming appear way more lucrative than it really was, especially as the rest of Big Hollywood began crowding the room. Disney, Paramount, HBO, Amazon, Peacock, Apple...

Fast forward to now and Disney+ shed another 4 million subscribers during the first three months of 2023. Disney’s Hulu and ESPN+ services barely grew. To use Disney+ as the example, streaming has become a business with low profit margins that in the process of establishing itself is replacing a dependably profitable cable/satellite viewing sector.

The Streaming Wars started out as a fight to dethrone Netflix but are now more about survival than supremacy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 29, 2023, 12:10:56 PM

cable/satellite has been dealing with very low profit margins for decades

streaming is the same

the content providers keep jacking up the rates - subscribers are only willing to pay so much.

the content is expensive

the delivery method really doesn't matter too much

streaming has some advantages because of the investment in internet services overall, but the competition from many sources beat each other into the ground

margins are low, the only way to make $$$ is with volume of subscribers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2023, 12:34:04 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 29, 2023, 12:10:56 PM

cable/satellite has been dealing with very low profit margins for decades

streaming is the same

the content providers keep jacking up the rates - subscribers are only willing to pay so much.

the content is expensive

the delivery method really doesn't matter too much

streaming has some advantages because of the investment in internet services overall, but the competition from many sources beat each other into the ground

margins are low, the only way to make $$$ is with volume of subscribers

The company we have is called Broadstar, and they primarily serve HOA's. We don't see a bill from them. It's part of our HOA.

Now they are taking over the entire development here. That's 2000 units - maybe 2500.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 29, 2023, 12:38:06 PM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on June 29, 2023, 11:16:23 AM

Netflix was able to reach unbelievable profitability while it was the only show in town. Their success made the prospects of streaming appear way more lucrative than it really was, especially as the rest of Big Hollywood began crowding the room. Disney, Paramount, HBO, Amazon, Peacock, Apple...

Fast forward to now and Disney+ shed another 4 million subscribers during the first three months of 2023. Disney’s Hulu and ESPN+ services barely grew. To use Disney+ as the example, streaming has become a business with low profit margins that in the process of establishing itself is replacing a dependably profitable cable/satellite viewing sector.

The Streaming Wars started out as a fight to dethrone Netflix but are now more about survival than supremacy.

Ahh. I view it a little bit differently. 

Streaming was inevitable. The goal was to steal consumers away from cable/satellite.

• The cable providers mostly wanted no part of streaming; they were fat and happy with things the way they were. 
• The satellite providers (at least Dish, from talking to people who work there) had an incentive to get into streaming b/c satellite really served rural areas but it's harder to compete in urban areas with cable, and some residences (apartments, etc) may have restrictions that make it really difficult to put up a satellite dish. Many rural areas don't have enough broadband for streaming, so Sling (and DirecTV's streaming service before the AT&T merge and eventually killing it) were all about stealing subscribers from cable. 
• The live TV entrants that came along (Hulu, YouTubeTV, etc), may not be profitable, but they are incremental revenue drivers for these companies as they're stealing subscribers from cable/satellite. So they were incentivized to get in. 
• The standalone streaming services (AppleTV+, Peacock, Paramount, Disney+/ESPN+, HBO etc) were about content creators finding better ways to monetize their content without the cable/satellite/livestreaming TV providers pilfering off the profit margin for themselves. 

As Fearless says, content is king. That's what drives Netflix. That's why HBO paid a bunch of money for Friends. That's what AppleTV+ is banking on. That's why Hulu (owned by the mouse) bundles Disney+/ESPN+ in with Hulu Live TV--it's their own content that they're promoting. 

The streaming wars are about getting people to subscribe to your service because you have such compelling content that they feel they can't live without it. 

Which is frankly the same business model HBO has been using for decades.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 29, 2023, 01:11:14 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2023, 10:58:35 AM

Sounds like some of Putin's generals and commanders are starting to disappear. The purge begins and the little man grabs the power.

He's got the beginnings of a nice little civil war. That should help improve things on the Ukrainian front.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 29, 2023, 01:29:23 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2023, 10:56:02 AM

I remember back in the day when I went to streaming, I bought Roku stuff on the recommendation of a long-lost poster called BWarbiany.

He was a good dude.

Yup.  I really like the Roku hardware interface, I prefer it to Amazon firestick and AppleTV, although the only AppleTV hardware I ever saw/used was a long time ago, probably first generation, so I can't comment on what it's like these days.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 29, 2023, 02:06:47 PM

Quote from: utee94 on June 29, 2023, 01:29:23 PM

Yup.  I really like the Roku hardware interface, I prefer it to Amazon firestick and AppleTV, although the only AppleTV hardware I ever saw/used was a long time ago, probably first generation, so I can't comment on what it's like these days.

Yeah, I prefer Roku because it's independent. All they really do is hardware, so you know it's their focus, not some piece of kit that's intended to push their content. And I usually tell people to get the expensive one, instead of the stick, because you're going to get a better performing processor and more RAM, which will make the UI more responsive. 

We do have an AppleTV, which my wife had when we met. That's attached to the bedroom TV. But we really don't watch TV in there just about ever. 

Biggest complaint about AppleTV is their stupid remote. Buttons are great on a remote. I don't know why Apple is always so against buttons. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2023, 05:33:05 PM

Dickface Putin. Russia's Arkancide wannabe.


Mounting Death Toll: Russian Bank VP Dies After Mysteriously Falling From 11th-floor Moscow Apartment Window (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/mounting-death-toll-russian-bank-vp-dies-after-mysteriously-falling-from-11th-floor-moscow-apartment-window/ar-AA1ddQJx?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=8f7640dce1ec465291c396618c623fbc&ei=17)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2023, 05:33:47 PM

Supreme Court will rule on student debt relief Friday | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/4074571-supreme-court-student-debt-relief-ruling-friday/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 29, 2023, 05:33:57 PM

Defenestration is Russia's national pastime.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 29, 2023, 05:44:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 29, 2023, 05:33:47 PM

Supreme Court will rule on student debt relief Friday | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/4074571-supreme-court-student-debt-relief-ruling-friday/)

Oh really how about my gas bill,electric bill,land taxes ya know because like you guys I made a foolish decision to live in my own house. Huge bag of snakes these unhinged half wits are trifling with - those students now have a career profession after 4 yrs if not well then an expensive lesson. Pony up or Vinnie,Dutch and Bruno are gonna help you find your wallet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2023, 05:50:45 PM

My concern more relates to Presidential power and scope than the specific thing.  Could he forgive $100 K of debt?  All of it?  If it's legal to do $10/$20 K, why stop there?

And isn't Congress supposed to be involved?  I understand former students are often under a lot of debt, so are many others, but the concept to me is quite troubling, I don't know what the limits would be on this much power.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 29, 2023, 05:53:40 PM

Quote from: utee94 on June 29, 2023, 01:11:14 PM

He's got the beginnings of a nice little civil war. That should help improve things on the Ukrainian front.

He's been in power as long as Stalin he's gonna get whacked if he comes out of his hole

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on June 29, 2023, 05:54:42 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 29, 2023, 05:50:45 PM

My concern more relates to Presidential power and scope than the specific thing.  Could he forgive $100 K of debt?  All of it?  If it's legal to do $10/$20 K, why stop there?

And isn't Congress supposed to be involved?  I understand former students are often under a lot of debt, so are many others, but the concept to me is quite troubling, I don't know what the limits would be on this much power.

we're all too close to operating like a Banana Republic.   DoJ/IRS are linked arm and arm,  all we need is a little nudge from the Executive branch, the Congress to shrug its shoulders as has been their practice and we're right there with [fill in the blank].

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 29, 2023, 05:54:50 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 29, 2023, 05:50:45 PM

My concern more relates to Presidential power and scope than the specific thing.  Could he forgive $100 K of debt?  All of it?  If it's legal to do $10/$20 K, why stop there?

And isn't Congress supposed to be involved?  I understand former students are often under a lot of debt, so are many others, but the concept to me is quite troubling, I don't know what the limits would be on this much power.

well he's already forgiving Hunter's tax bill

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 29, 2023, 06:28:47 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on June 29, 2023, 05:54:42 PM

we're all too close to operating like a Banana Republic.  

Cindy said exactly that earlier when discussing all of mayhem 

:singing:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 29, 2023, 11:40:25 PM

pretty sure Cindy likes me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2023, 08:18:05 AM

Quote from: MarqHusker on June 29, 2023, 05:54:42 PM

we're all too close to operating like a Banana Republic.  DoJ/IRS are linked arm and arm,  all we need is a little nudge from the Executive branch, the Congress to shrug its shoulders as has been their practice and we're right there with [fill in the blank].

Exactly correct.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2023, 09:06:07 AM

Russia’s attempted assassination of CIA asset in Florida is straight out of Putin’s 'Wet Deeds' playbook (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-s-attempted-assassination-of-cia-asset-in-florida-is-straight-out-of-putin-s-wet-deeds-playbook/ar-AA1dfR3b?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=8eef12e1c7044604a9e69aab2481831d&ei=10)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2023, 10:39:09 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/FCwBgW9.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2023, 11:01:40 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 29, 2023, 05:33:47 PM

Supreme Court will rule on student debt relief Friday | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/4074571-supreme-court-student-debt-relief-ruling-friday/)

Yep.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 30, 2023, 11:06:20 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 30, 2023, 10:39:09 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/FCwBgW9.png)

From the country that put a man on the moon

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 11:08:37 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 30, 2023, 11:06:20 AM

From the country that put a man on the moon

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/l4y5t01W3hA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on June 30, 2023, 11:24:46 AM

Supreme Court ruled wedding website designer does not have to create websites for same sex weddings.  Also a 6-3 decision as with student loan forgiveness shoot down.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 30, 2023, 11:29:51 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on June 30, 2023, 11:24:46 AM

Supreme Court ruled wedding website designer does not have to create websites for same sex weddings.  Also a 6-3 decision as with student loan forgiveness shoot down.

Well Biden is already working on workarounds, because I think that they knew he did not have the authority to wave off all that student debt

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2023, 11:35:02 AM

What kind of work around is feasible without Congress?  Delaying payments further?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2023, 11:39:13 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 30, 2023, 11:35:02 AM

What kind of work around is feasible without Congress?  Delaying payments further?

Under what authority? Covid is over. No more emergency orders.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2023, 12:01:28 PM

Yeah, I don't see anything, without Congress.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 30, 2023, 12:09:39 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 11:08:37 AM

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/l4y5t01W3hA

funny but not sure how it relates

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 12:42:27 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 30, 2023, 12:09:39 PM

funny but not sure how it relates

Well you said "from the country that put a man on the moon." While you didn't say "WE" put a man on the moon, it's a very similar sentiment. 

"The country" is a collective entity full of individuals. The nationalism bit that Stanhope is talking about is that a whole bunch of us assume that because "America" did something, that means "we" did something. 

A bunch of American dudes in the 1960s put a man on the moon. I can't claim as an American that "we" did it because not only was I not personally involved in any part of it, it was also 9 years before I was born. 

America is full of a lot of people capable of landing a man on the moon. It's also full of a lot of dumbasses. The dumbasses shouldn't get to claim credit for the stuff the non-dumbasses do just because they happen to live under the same flag. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 30, 2023, 12:44:47 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 12:42:27 PM

The dumbasses shouldn't get to claim credit for the stuff the non-dumbasses do just because they happen to live under the same flag.

This is some dangerous territory you're treading.

College football fans shouldn't get to revel in the achievements of a team on the field, just because they happened to go to the same school...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2023, 12:46:14 PM

Quote from: utee94 on June 30, 2023, 12:44:47 PM

This is some dangerous territory you're treading.

the SEC isn't going to like this
one little bit!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 30, 2023, 12:46:57 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 12:42:27 PM

Well you said "from the country that put a man on the moon." While you didn't say "WE" put a man on the moon, it's a very similar sentiment.

"The country" is a collective entity full of individuals. The nationalism bit that Stanhope is talking about is that a whole bunch of us assume that because "America" did something, that means "we" did something.

A bunch of American dudes in the 1960s put a man on the moon. I can't claim as an American that "we" did it because not only was I not personally involved in any part of it, it was also 9 years before I was born.

America is full of a lot of people capable of landing a man on the moon. It's also full of a lot of dumbasses. The dumbasses shouldn't get to claim credit for the stuff the non-dumbasses do just because they happen to live under the same flag.

Unfortunately, I've never lived in a country when it put a man on the moon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2023, 12:47:10 PM

New 52 Week High Today

S&P 500 Index

4,446.28
quote price arrow up+49.84 (+1.13%)


_____________________________

musta liked the Supreme Court

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2023, 12:48:57 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 30, 2023, 12:47:10 PM

New 52 Week High Today

S&P 500 Index

4,446.28
quote price arrow up+49.84 (+1.13%)


_____________________________

musta liked the Supreme Court

Me too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 12:53:40 PM

Quote from: utee94 on June 30, 2023, 12:44:47 PM

This is some dangerous territory you're treading.

College football fans shouldn't get to revel in the achievements of a team on the field, just because they happened to go to the same school...

It's easiest to tread on this territory when a "fan" of a team that never achieves anything, though! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 30, 2023, 12:56:47 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 12:53:40 PM

It's easiest to tread on this territory when a "fan" of a team that never achieves anything, though!

Sure, but this is a college football message board full of college football fans.

You remember what "fan" is short for? :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 01:02:04 PM

Quote from: utee94 on June 30, 2023, 12:56:47 PM

Sure, but this is a college football message board full of college football fans.

You remember what "fan" is short for? :)

A fanatic is a person with irrational attachment to something...

Kinda like being a nationalist?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 30, 2023, 01:15:23 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 01:02:04 PM

A fanatic is a person with irrational attachment to something...

Kinda like being a nationalist?

I'm not making a qualitative statement here.

I'm just pointing out the facts.

If there's an argument against being a nationalist, then it is also the same argument against being a sports fan.

But what fun would it be, not to have a rooting interest in ANYthing?

Sounds pretty boring and dull to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 30, 2023, 01:25:05 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 12:42:27 PM

Well you said "from the country that put a man on the moon." While you didn't say "WE" put a man on the moon, it's a very similar sentiment.

"The country" is a collective entity full of individuals. The nationalism bit that Stanhope is talking about is that a whole bunch of us assume that because "America" did something, that means "we" did something.

A bunch of American dudes in the 1960s put a man on the moon. I can't claim as an American that "we" did it because not only was I not personally involved in any part of it, it was also 9 years before I was born.

America is full of a lot of people capable of landing a man on the moon. It's also full of a lot of dumbasses. The dumbasses shouldn't get to claim credit for the stuff the non-dumbasses do just because they happen to live under the same flag.

I wish all the folks screaming for reparations had that view point

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 01:26:27 PM

Quote from: utee94 on June 30, 2023, 01:15:23 PM

I'm not making a qualitative statement here.

I'm just pointing out the facts.

If there's an argument against being a nationalist, then it is also the same argument against being a sports fan.

But what fun would it be, not to have a rooting interest in ANYthing?

Sounds pretty boring and dull to me.

Actually, it's more splitting hairs. Having a rooting interest and claiming someone else's accomplishments as your own are two different things. 

I want to see Purdue succeed. It would make me happy. I want to see America succeed. It makes me happy. 

But if Purdue wins a football or basketball game, although I've used the colloquial "we" in describing it, I know it's a bunch of 18-22 year old kids who don't know who I am or give a flying F about me, and that there really is no "we" just because we all attended the same university. 

Hell, I don't even donate to the John Purdue Club, so I can't even claim I'm funding them and financially supporting their success lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2023, 01:36:07 PM

I think we're all "ists" for some things.  I think we all know it can go too far, we've cited examples.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 30, 2023, 01:45:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 30, 2023, 01:36:07 PM

I think we're all "ists" for some things.  I think we all know it can go too far, we've cited examples.

as far as the moon landing is concerned some of us stayed up all night with Walter Cronkite to the final moment of landing

its very real to me and Im very proud to be a member of the country that did this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2023, 02:19:50 PM

Me too

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 30, 2023, 03:04:19 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 30, 2023, 11:29:51 AM

Well Biden is already working on workarounds, because I think that they knew he did not have the authority to wave off all that student debt

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 30, 2023, 11:35:02 AM

What kind of work around is feasible without Congress?  Delaying payments further?

The Court isn't able to say loan forgiveness is wrong - that would violate the plain language of the statute. The President's plan can change by the hour, and if they are committed to it they can come up with a new plan that is more narrowly tailored that could survive analysis.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 30, 2023, 03:10:55 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 30, 2023, 03:04:19 PM

The Court isn't able to say loan forgiveness is wrong - that would violate the plain language of the statute. The President's plan can change by the hour, and if they are committed to it they can come up with a new plan that is more narrowly tailored that could survive analysis.

Theoretically true but with the current makeup of the court, I believe it unlikely they can find ANY plan that is tailored narrowly enough to make it past.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2023, 03:11:39 PM

Good to know his plan can "change by the hour" depending on, well, something.  Loan forgiveness happens pretty routinely.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 30, 2023, 03:15:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 30, 2023, 03:11:39 PM

Good to know his plan can "change by the hour" depending on, well, something.  Loan forgiveness happens pretty routinely.

The plan comes from executive order. It doesn't need to pass Congress. The Court dalliances with trying to regulate the executive branch run into this challenge.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 30, 2023, 03:16:41 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 01:26:27 PM

Actually, it's more splitting hairs. Having a rooting interest and claiming someone else's accomplishments as your own are two different things.

I want to see Purdue succeed. It would make me happy. I want to see America succeed. It makes me happy.

But if Purdue wins a football or basketball game, although I've used the colloquial "we" in describing it, I know it's a bunch of 18-22 year old kids who don't know who I am or give a flying F about me, and that there really is no "we" just because we all attended the same university.

Hell, I don't even donate to the John Purdue Club, so I can't even claim I'm funding them and financially supporting their success lol.

The way many fans approach the game, I don't agree they're two different things at all.

But, I'm obviously only engaging in this discourse for academic reasons, I don't feel overly strong about it.

I'm fine with people wishing to cheer for their favorite team and treating the accomplishments of that team as an extension of themselves, just as I'm fine with people taking pride in their country and treating the accomplishments of their compatriots as an extension of themselves. The problems arise when it shifts from rooting FOR your own team or country, into hating those from other teams or countries.

But as evidenced by the hatred we sometimes see in sports fan behavior, this isn't something unique to nationalism. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 30, 2023, 03:17:02 PM

Quote from: utee94 on June 30, 2023, 03:10:55 PM

Theoretically true but with the current makeup of the court, I believe it unlikely they can find ANY plan that is tailored narrowly enough to make it past.

I mean, maybe. Roberts decision isn't garbage, but Kagan makes a pretty compelling dissent on both standing and the merits. The majority's opinion basically comes down to various definitions of what "modify" means. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 30, 2023, 03:18:36 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 30, 2023, 03:17:02 PM

I mean, maybe. Roberts decision isn't garbage, but Kagan makes a pretty compelling dissent on both standing and the merits. The majority's opinion basically comes down to various definitions of what "modify" means.

It all depends on what your definition of is, is. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 03:30:13 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 30, 2023, 01:45:53 PM

as far as the moon landing is concerned some of us stayed up all night with Walter Cronkite to the final moment of landing

its very real to me and Im very proud to be a member of the country that did this

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 30, 2023, 02:19:50 PM

Me too

(https://media.tenor.com/U9fMFxiKWQYAAAAC/retort.gif)

(Note that the below is at least partly Devil's Advocate...)
First I'll stipulate that landing a man on the moon and bringing him home safely is one of the most technologically impressive feats that humanity has ever done. My hat is off to all of the scientists, engineers, technicians, assembly/mission personnel, astronauts themselves, etc etc etc that made it happen. It's astounding and they should ALL be proud of what they accomplished.

But...

I might ask why we went to the moon? Well, it was because we were in a space race. Why? Because we had to prove that capitalism was better than communism, so we couldn't let the Russians beat us, right?

And so we won. But I'd argue it proved nothing about capitalism vs communism, or about freedom vs totalitarian regimes.

How capitalist was it, exactly?

• There was no ROI. Nobody ever sold this as "look at how much money we'll make from the moon". Nobody sought investment. There was no businessperson who looked at the plan and said "oh, I'll invest in equity shares of THAT new company!"
• There was no choice in funding. The government forcibly extracted money--the equivalent of a quarter of a trillion 2020 dollars (https://www.planetary.org/space-policy/cost-of-apollo)--to finance a project that clearly the taxpayers weren't choosing to spend their own money on voluntarily. 
• There was no follow-up. It's not like we used the moon for strategic or military reasons. It's not like we used it as a jumping-off point to colonize the solar system. It's not like we went to Mars next. We win, we declared victory, and then... Got bored. It underscores that there was no ROI.
• If it's expensive, pointless, has no return, and is abandoned once politicians find something else shiny, it is what it is--a feather in nationalist caps. And nothing more.

So let's see. Government stole resources from its citizens. It used them on a project that had no economic return. Once it could declare a nationalist victory, it abandoned future emphasis on the project and nobody in the world has been back to that lifeless rock in over 50 years. 

That doesn't sound like something a capitalist would do... In fact, it sounds exactly like something a communist nationalist would do!


We didn't beat the Russians with capitalism. We just played their own game better than they did. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 03:34:30 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 30, 2023, 03:15:57 PM

The plan comes from executive order. It doesn't need to pass Congress. The Court dalliances with trying to regulate the executive branch run into this challenge.

Isn't the point that the President was doing something that he has no authority to do, BECAUSE it didn't come from Congress? 

Because I'm pretty sure that as he's part of the executive branch, and we have the nondelegation doctrine, as well as the major questions doctrine, the President can't just do whatever he wants in areas the Constitution didn't give him explicit authority. 

That said, I haven't gotten around to reading the full decision and dissent yet...

It's here if anyone wants it: https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23865266/biden-president-of-the-united-states-et-al-v-nebraska-et-al.pdf

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 30, 2023, 03:38:59 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 03:30:13 PM

(https://media.tenor.com/U9fMFxiKWQYAAAAC/retort.gif)

(Note that the below is at least partly Devil's Advocate...)
First I'll stipulate that landing a man on the moon and bringing him home safely is one of the most technologically impressive feats that humanity has ever done. My hat is off to all of the scientists, engineers, technicians, assembly/mission personnel, astronauts themselves, etc etc etc that made it happen. It's astounding and they should ALL be proud of what they accomplished.

But...

I might ask why we went to the moon? Well, it was because we were in a space race. Why? Because we had to prove that capitalism was better than communism, so we couldn't let the Russians beat us, right?

And so we won. But I'd argue it proved nothing about capitalism vs communism, or about freedom vs totalitarian regimes.

How capitalist was it, exactly?

• There was no ROI. Nobody ever sold this as "look at how much money we'll make from the moon". Nobody sought investment. There was no businessperson who looked at the plan and said "oh, I'll invest in equity shares of THAT new company!"
• There was no choice in funding. The government forcibly extracted money--the equivalent of a quarter of a trillion 2020 dollars (https://www.planetary.org/space-policy/cost-of-apollo)--to finance a project that clearly the taxpayers weren't choosing to spend their own money on voluntarily.
• There was no follow-up. It's not like we used the moon for strategic or military reasons. It's not like we used it as a jumping-off point to colonize the solar system. It's not like we went to Mars next. We win, we declared victory, and then... Got bored. It underscores that there was no ROI.
• If it's expensive, pointless, has no return, and is abandoned once politicians find something else shiny, it is what it is--a feather in nationalist caps. And nothing more.

So let's see. Government stole resources from its citizens. It used them on a project that had no economic return. Once it could declare a nationalist victory, it abandoned future emphasis on the project and nobody in the world has been back to that lifeless rock in over 50 years.

That doesn't sound like something a capitalist would do... In fact, it sounds exactly like something a communist nationalist would do!


We didn't beat the Russians with capitalism. We just played their own game better than they did.

Agree that it didn't prove anything in favor of capitalism, but disagree that there was no ROI.

It established the USA for decades as the preeminent master of Space.  It created awe and, yes, fear, in other nations, that served the USA well for decades in its endeavors for extending its belief system-- its "brand"-- to large areas of the globe.  It's an intangible but highly valuable asset, not unlike "goodwill" in corporate terms.

And that's not even counting the ancillary capitalistic benefits that came from turbo-charging numerous industries to support.  Like, where would our nation be, without Tang????

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2023, 03:39:42 PM

Only Congress can appropriate funds.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 03:51:30 PM

Quote from: utee94 on June 30, 2023, 03:38:59 PM

Agree that it didn't prove anything in favor of capitalism, but disagree that there was no ROI.

It established the USA for decades as the preeminent master of Space.  It created awe and, yes, fear, in other nations, that served the USA well for decades in its endeavors for extending its belief system-- its "brand"-- to large areas of the globe.  It's an intangible but highly valuable asset, not unlike "goodwill" in corporate terms.

And that's not even counting the ancillary capitalistic benefits that came from turbo-charging numerous industries to support.  Like, where would our nation be, without Tang????

Good points. And why I said it was partially Devil's Advocate. Arguing just to argue. Or as one poster puts it, stirrin' the pot...

I'd even add that it was a source of inspiration to a lot of Americans. Especially Americans who were brought up in postwar nationalism and called these accomplishments their own because of where they were born. 

A lot of good things came out of it. 

But it's not like most Americans at the time had either a choice to do it or a hand in making it happen. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2023, 04:03:13 PM

D's held the WH and Congress for two years and did nothing toward trying to advance student loan forgiveness through the legislature. Just like abortion...

Can't bitch about it now. But they will and the MSM will carry their water.

Rinse. Repeat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2023, 04:06:33 PM

I sorta wish these decisions as written would be based on the law and no bring in a bunch of "Well it would be better if ...".

I find that rare.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 30, 2023, 04:14:26 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 03:30:13 PM

(https://media.tenor.com/U9fMFxiKWQYAAAAC/retort.gif)

• There was no choice in funding. The government forcibly extracted money--the equivalent of a quarter of a trillion 2020 dollars (https://www.planetary.org/space-policy/cost-of-apollo)--to finance a project that clearly the taxpayers weren't choosing to spend their own money on voluntarily.

The funds were budgeted for NASA and passed by the Congress

am I wrong

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2023, 04:18:02 PM

You are correct, our System enables Congress to tax us and spend monies as our representatives.  I don't view it as theft, even though I know much is spent in ways I dislike.

And of course I don't HAVE to pay taxes ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on June 30, 2023, 04:18:36 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 30, 2023, 01:45:53 PM

as far as the moon landing is concerned some of us stayed up all night with Walter Cronkite to the final moment of landing

its very real to me and Im very proud to be a member of the country that did this

In the days before home video cameras we filmed it with our super 8 camera off the TV.  I am definitely a child of the space race.  Followed all the events from Gemini through Apollo. Had the models. Could tell you who was on what flight, what was accomplished.  It really is too bad kids today don't have something like that to fascinate them. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2023, 04:19:56 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 30, 2023, 04:06:33 PM

I sorta wish these decisions as written would be based on the law and no bring in a bunch of "Well it would be better if ...".

I find that rare.

Where is there a law that states anything about student loan forgiveness?

The law states that only Congress can appropriate funds. #46 ran on a platform that included student loan forgiveness, knowing full-well he'd never get it through Congress.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 04:20:43 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 30, 2023, 04:14:26 PM

The funds were budgeted for NASA and passed by the Congress

am I wrong

Oh, so you view everything that our Congress deigns worth spending your tax dollars on, to be something you're voluntarily supporting by choice? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 30, 2023, 04:21:58 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 29, 2023, 11:40:25 PM

pretty sure Cindy likes me

Well she's been known to swing a club

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 30, 2023, 04:23:30 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 04:20:43 PM

Oh, so you view everything that our Congress deigns worth spending your tax dollars on, to be something you're voluntarily supporting by choice?

The point is the money was not stolen

It was provided through Constitutional means

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 04:24:14 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2023, 04:19:56 PM

Where is there a law that states anything about student loan forgiveness?

I'm still reading the decision, but it's the HEROES Act of 2003. It explicitly grants the ability to forgive certain loans, and gives the Secretary of Education additional powers in the case of national emergency. 

Whether that statutory power given to the Secretary was exceeded is at question. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on June 30, 2023, 04:25:39 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 03:30:13 PM

(https://media.tenor.com/U9fMFxiKWQYAAAAC/retort.gif)

(Note that the below is at least partly Devil's Advocate...)
First I'll stipulate that landing a man on the moon and bringing him home safely is one of the most technologically impressive feats that humanity has ever done. My hat is off to all of the scientists, engineers, technicians, assembly/mission personnel, astronauts themselves, etc etc etc that made it happen. It's astounding and they should ALL be proud of what they accomplished.

But...

I might ask why we went to the moon? Well, it was because we were in a space race. Why? Because we had to prove that capitalism was better than communism, so we couldn't let the Russians beat us, right?

And so we won. But I'd argue it proved nothing about capitalism vs communism, or about freedom vs totalitarian regimes.

How capitalist was it, exactly?

• There was no ROI. Nobody ever sold this as "look at how much money we'll make from the moon". Nobody sought investment. There was no businessperson who looked at the plan and said "oh, I'll invest in equity shares of THAT new company!"
• There was no choice in funding. The government forcibly extracted money--the equivalent of a quarter of a trillion 2020 dollars (https://www.planetary.org/space-policy/cost-of-apollo)--to finance a project that clearly the taxpayers weren't choosing to spend their own money on voluntarily.
• There was no follow-up. It's not like we used the moon for strategic or military reasons. It's not like we used it as a jumping-off point to colonize the solar system. It's not like we went to Mars next. We win, we declared victory, and then... Got bored. It underscores that there was no ROI.
• If it's expensive, pointless, has no return, and is abandoned once politicians find something else shiny, it is what it is--a feather in nationalist caps. And nothing more.

So let's see. Government stole resources from its citizens. It used them on a project that had no economic return. Once it could declare a nationalist victory, it abandoned future emphasis on the project and nobody in the world has been back to that lifeless rock in over 50 years.

That doesn't sound like something a capitalist would do... In fact, it sounds exactly like something a communist nationalist would do!


We didn't beat the Russians with capitalism. We just played their own game better than they did.

THe ROI of the space race is almost incalculable.  The rapid advancements in materials, miniturization, computing power, etc. that wouldn't have happened as fast without the space race.  For those who didn't grow up in the era, you have no idea what it brought to the country in terms of unity, vision and yes nationalism.  It was something that the country could rally around that wasn't "war".  As far as I am concerned this is one of the few government programs that actually paidoff more than it cost. In both overall economics of the country as well as intangible ideals. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 04:26:05 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 30, 2023, 04:23:30 PM

The point is the money was not stolen

It was provided through Constitutional means

Yes, you're right. The government extracted the money from its citizens under duress, namely the threat of being locked in a cage if they don't comply. 

But it was not stolen. It's legal when the government does it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 30, 2023, 04:27:54 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 03:51:30 PM

A lot of good things came out of it.

Well Elton John had the hit Rocket Man and Bowie had Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars. So the space race wasn't a complete waste.Perhaps Star Wars defense system is really up there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2023, 04:30:58 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 04:24:14 PM

I'm still reading the decision, but it's the HEROES Act of 2003. It explicitly grants the ability to forgive certain loans, and gives the Secretary of Education additional powers in the case of national emergency.

Whether that statutory power given to the Secretary was exceeded is at question.

In connection with a war or national emergency. The intent is not met here, in my non-lawyer opinion.

In the real world, when you sign up for a loan, you pay that loan. End.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2023, 04:31:48 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 04:26:05 PM

Yes, you're right. The government extracted the money from its citizens under duress, namely the threat of being locked in a cage if they don't comply.

But it was not stolen. It's legal when the government does it.

Just spit out a nice sip of Deep Eddy. Thanks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 04:32:52 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on June 30, 2023, 04:25:39 PM

THe ROI of the space race is almost incalculable.  The rapid advancements in materials, miniturization, computing power, etc. that wouldn't have happened as fast without the space race.  For those who didn't grow up in the era, you have no idea what it brought to the country in terms of unity, vision and yes nationalism.  It was something that the country could rally around that wasn't "war".  As far as I am concerned this is one of the few government programs that actually paidoff more than it cost. In both overall economics of the country as well as intangible ideals.

Hey, a lot of good things came of it. Is it possible technology wouldn't have advanced as quickly satisfying consumer interests rather than nationalist goals? Yes. 

And frankly, it's a lot better purpose to "win a race" than what preceded and enabled it--Werner von Braun and the other Germans basically jumpstarting modern rocketry in order to rain down fire on the British in service of the Nazis. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 30, 2023, 04:35:15 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 30, 2023, 10:39:09 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/FCwBgW9.png)

You might be a redneck if.......

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 04:51:56 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2023, 04:30:58 PM

In connection with a war or national emergency. The intent is not met here, in my non-lawyer opinion.

In the real world, when you sign up for a loan, you pay that loan. End.

Well, I suggest you read the decision and the dissent. (I have only so far gotten through the dissent--now I need to do a workout, so it might be a while.)

The problem with non-lawyer opinions is not whether they are correct or not--it's more that they don't amount for a hill 'o' beans in court. 

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23865266/biden-president-of-the-united-states-et-al-v-nebraska-et-al.pdf

At least reading the majority opinion and Kagan's dissent will give you both sides of the lawyerly opinions. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2023, 05:03:54 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 04:51:56 PM

Well, I suggest you read the decision and the dissent. (I have only so far gotten through the dissent--now I need to do a workout, so it might be a while.)

The problem with non-lawyer opinions is not whether they are correct or not--it's more that they don't amount for a hill 'o' beans in court.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23865266/biden-president-of-the-united-states-et-al-v-nebraska-et-al.pdf

At least reading the majority opinion and Kagan's dissent will give you both sides of the lawyerly opinions.

I've read most of the decision. The HEROES act was improperly invoked. I'm not going to argue in court about anything.

It's my opinion, which I'm entitled to. My opinion has not changed. I've held it ever since this was campaigned on.

Why should a plumber have to pay for some snot who got a crap degree from an expensive school?

This is called buying votes. Anyone who can't see through it is fooling themselves.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 30, 2023, 05:18:37 PM

Quote

In the real world, when you sign up for a loan, you pay that loan. End.

(https://media.tenor.com/9HlgAk0uoHQAAAAC/inauguration-cnn2017-donald-trump.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2023, 05:25:10 PM

Seriously? You gotta get him out of your head. I certainly have.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on June 30, 2023, 05:29:53 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2023, 05:25:10 PM

Seriously? You gotta get him out of your head. I certainly have.

Well I have some bad news for you as far as what television commercials are going to look like next year. Also Trump's businesses declared bankruptcy four times, a common tactic to avoid paying loans.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on June 30, 2023, 05:34:06 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on June 30, 2023, 04:24:14 PM

I'm still reading the decision, but it's the HEROES Act of 2003. It explicitly grants the ability to forgive certain loans, and gives the Secretary of Education additional powers in the case of national emergency.

Whether that statutory power given to the Secretary was exceeded is at question.

Much less dramatic that stolen. Still probably not legal. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on June 30, 2023, 05:39:11 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2023, 04:31:48 PM

Just spit out a nice sip of Deep Eddy. Thanks.

Deep Eddy, like Tito's, is from Austin.  I bet you're secretly wearing your Vince Young underoos right now, aren't you? ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2023, 06:09:12 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on June 30, 2023, 05:29:53 PM

Well I have some bad news for you as far as what television commercials are going to look like next year. Also Trump's businesses declared bankruptcy four times, a common tactic to avoid paying loans.

Good thing we don't watch much television, and when those ads come on, they get muted.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 30, 2023, 06:09:44 PM

Quote from: utee94 on June 30, 2023, 05:39:11 PM

Deep Eddy, like Tito's, is from Austin.  I bet you're secretly wearing your Vince Young underoos right now, aren't you? ;)

You caught me. They are a little tighter than they used to be.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2023, 06:15:33 PM

well if we're going to forgive loans, please just allow me to take a similar loan to make things equal

$40K   $140K whatever, I just want my share

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on June 30, 2023, 07:54:38 PM

Crazy stuff that won’t pass muster of constitutionality gets passed all the time.  

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/michigan-house-passes-bill-using-wrong-pronouns-felony-fineable-10000

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on June 30, 2023, 08:07:14 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 30, 2023, 07:54:38 PM

Crazy stuff that won’t pass muster of constitutionality gets passed all the time. 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/michigan-house-passes-bill-using-wrong-pronouns-felony-fineable-10000

This is a perfect example of why we will always need SCOTUS

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 30, 2023, 08:18:46 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on June 30, 2023, 06:15:33 PM

well if we're going to forgive loans, please just allow me to take a similar loan to make things equal

$40K  $140K whatever, I just want my share

That won't work FF you're being honest about your larceny - doesn't operate like that. Think of it as your score card get creative. After how the IRS shived me in '16-'17 I'm livivd what these F***s get away with

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on June 30, 2023, 08:21:58 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 30, 2023, 08:07:14 PM

This is a perfect example of why we will always need SCOTUS

we won't just some one like Roy Bean or Isaac Parker that starts at the Top.

So who do you guys think will be the 1st state to secede from the late,great US of A?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2023, 10:41:23 PM

I hope it's Cali
And I hope it's next week 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on July 01, 2023, 12:06:24 AM

The Supreme Court has turned into the kind of court that talk radio was railing against throughout the 90s.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 01, 2023, 12:09:38 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on July 01, 2023, 12:06:24 AM

The Supreme Court has turned into the kind of court that talk radio was railing against throughout the 90s.

I don't ever listen to talk radio so I guess I'm curious as to what this means?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 01, 2023, 12:33:01 AM

Quote from: utee94 on July 01, 2023, 12:09:38 AM

I don't ever listen to talk radio so I guess I'm curious as to what this means?

In the 90s I listened to talk radio and dont recall SCOTUS decisions causing a lot of discussion

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2023, 06:00:20 AM

Why the White House thinks new student loan plan will hold up in court | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4076860-why-the-white-house-thinks-new-the-student-loan-plan-will-hold-up-in-court/)

I don't see a "Why" in this summary, they are basing it on another act "HEA" which I know zip about.  I still don't see how a President can "spend" over $400 billion without an appropriation no matter what.  It's scary to me.

This also is another sign about how vague legislation typically is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 01, 2023, 07:22:47 AM

Quote from: utee94 on July 01, 2023, 12:09:38 AM

I don't ever listen to talk radio so I guess I'm curious as to what this means?

Guys like Howard Stern and Don Imus maybe

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2023, 07:29:33 AM

Quote from: utee94 on July 01, 2023, 12:09:38 AM

I don't ever listen to talk radio so I guess I'm curious as to what this means?

I used to listen to some shows while driving to and from work, a variety of "talkers".  They mostly talked.  I got bored, but mostly I wanted to understand a bit about the personalities involved as folks would tell me I needed to listen to X.  I recall listening to Rush Limbaugh rattle papers and say I wasn't going to believe the next story once he came back from break.  Somebody told me I should listen to Hannity so I listened to his shrill voice a few times saying "Unbelievable" about 70 times a minute.  Bill Bennett had a much quieter still conservative radio show for a while.  I don't think anybody listened to him.  Terry Gross had one that often was pretty interesting on NPR.  She had Chuck Yeager on one time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 01, 2023, 07:35:59 AM

have not been bored enough to waste my time with talk radio

rather listen to 60, 70, 80's rock and roll

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 01, 2023, 07:36:11 AM

A police killing caught on video. Protests and rioting fueled by long-simmering tensions over law enforcement treatment of minorities. Demands for accountability.

The events in France following the death of a 17-year-old shot by police in a Paris suburb are drawing parallels to the racial reckoning in the U.S. spurred by the killings of George Floyd and other people of color at the hands of law enforcement.

Despite the differences between the two countries’ cultures, police forces and communities, the shooting in France and the outcry that erupted there this week laid bare how the U.S. is not alone in its struggles with systemic racism and police brutality.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 01, 2023, 08:34:15 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 30, 2023, 07:54:38 PM

Crazy stuff that won’t pass muster of constitutionality gets passed all the time. 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/michigan-house-passes-bill-using-wrong-pronouns-felony-fineable-10000

Yeesh, that article is quite the bit of sensationalism.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2023, 08:43:32 AM

If folks don't listen to Talk Radio, how could they possibly know what to think about things?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 01, 2023, 08:45:38 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 01, 2023, 08:43:32 AM

If folks don't listen to Talk Radio, how could they possibly know what to think about things?

I used to listen to AM 780 (WBBM) when I lived up North. It was all news - no editorials.

Before that it was AM 720 for me. WGN. Same.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 01, 2023, 08:52:38 AM

We all done now?

On Friday, Roberts released the Supreme Court’s opinion blocking Biden's student loan forgiveness plan, one of the president's major campaign promises.

In the opinion, Roberts cited then-Speaker Pelosi’s words saying the president did not have the power to cancel federal student loan debt.

"As then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi explained: ‘People think that the President of the United States has the power for debt forgiveness. He does not,’" Roberts quoted Pelosi’s July 28, 2021, press conference. "‘He can postpone. He can delay. But he does not have that power. That has to be an act of Congress.’"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2023, 09:01:10 AM

Why the White House thinks new student loan plan will hold up in court | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4076860-why-the-white-house-thinks-new-the-student-loan-plan-will-hold-up-in-court/)

No, they are trying again, I don't know how this new angle works at all.

The new effort is grounded in the Higher Education Act (HEA), unlike the first effort rooted in the Higher Education Relief Opportunities for Students (HEROES) Act, which the administration argued they could use due to the national emergency established during the COVID-19 pandemic.
When the Supreme Court struck down the program Friday, Chief Justice John Roberts  (https://thehill.com/people/john-roberts/)wrote in the court’s majority opinion that the HEROES Act does not grant the authority to provide student debt relief.
He invoked the so-called “major questions doctrine,” which the court uses to require that Congress give clear authorization for the executive branch to implement matters of vast economic and political significance.
White House officials argued Friday that the HEA route is more likely to hold up against that doctrine. Democrats and advocates have argued the HEA would allow the education secretary to compromise, waive or release student loans.
“From where it stands now, we think the … Higher Education Act pathway that we talked about today is going to be a valid pathway that conforms with the major questions doctrine issue that the Supreme Court raised today,” said Bharat Ramamurti, (https://thehill.com/people/bharat-ramamurti/) deputy director for the National Economic Council.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2023, 09:08:24 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/qqMZrpO.png)

That includes Gwinette County in GA, second largest county by population in the state.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 01, 2023, 09:10:00 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 01, 2023, 08:34:15 AM

Yeesh, that article is quite the bit of sensationalism.

How?  Just reporting facts.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2023, 09:36:08 AM

A recently passed bill in Michigan (https://www.foxnews.com/category/us/us-regions/midwest/michigan) could make it a felony to intimidate someone by intentionally using the wrong gender pronouns, according to some legal experts.

It seems unenforcable to me, and pointless.  How can one discern one's intentions?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 01, 2023, 09:44:32 AM

according to some legal experts

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 01, 2023, 09:48:34 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on July 01, 2023, 09:10:00 AM

How?  Just reporting facts. 

So, the headline is "Michigan House passes bill that could make using wrong pronouns a felony, fineable up to $10,000." And that conclusion is a stretch of speculation.

I pulled up the actual law. It's a hate crime bill. It mostly deals with actual violence or destruction of property, enhancing punishments if you're nakedly carrying it out in a targeted manner. The only route by which using the wrong pronouns is a felony is if you're already assaulting or intimidating someone or damaging their property, and you'll have to make clear you're doing it becuase you don't like them for their gender whatnot. The bar for "intimidation" is not exactly low in a country with free speech protections. 

I think it's a plenty stupid law, but you have to be a bit of a bad actor to imply that it's gonna make using the wrong pronouns a felony. It's an addendum to an older law, that covered race, religion, gender or ethnic origin. Michigan wasn't arresting folks who called other people slurs for felonies, so we're probably safe here. 

Here's the law: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(ng5w0xum1idje3hlh02qam5b))/documents/2023-2024/billcurrentversion/House/PDF/2023-HCVBS-4474-0O3311.pdf

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 01, 2023, 09:50:43 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 01, 2023, 09:36:08 AM

A recently passed bill in Michigan (https://www.foxnews.com/category/us/us-regions/midwest/michigan) could make it a felony to intimidate someone by intentionally using the wrong gender pronouns, according to some legal experts.

It seems unenforcable to me, and pointless.  How can one discern one's intentions?

It's part of hate crime laws, which end up being a blend of ineffectual virtue signaling and protections for cops. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 01, 2023, 09:56:00 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 01, 2023, 09:50:43 AM

It's part of hate crime laws, which end up being a blend of ineffectual virtue signaling and protections for cops.

Nicely stated.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 01, 2023, 10:22:42 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 01, 2023, 07:29:33 AM

  Terry Gross had one that often was pretty interesting on NPR.  She had Chuck Yeager on one time.

NPRs linup on saturday was fantastic most of the shows are gone now. Car Talk was the funniest shyt i ever heard and infomative also. To anyone who ever popped a hood or crawled under a car Gold Jerry Gold.Wait-Wait Don't Tell Me was good, Prarie Home Companion saturday night I kicked back and listen to it. They had a 2 hr show after that Folk Alley great music that hardlt got played on the radio. Sort of like Austin City Limits on PBS TV

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 01, 2023, 10:26:30 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 01, 2023, 09:48:34 AM

So, the headline is "Michigan House passes bill that could make using wrong pronouns a felony, fineable up to $10,000." And that conclusion is a stretch of speculation.

I pulled up the actual law. It's a hate crime bill. It mostly deals with actual violence or destruction of property, enhancing punishments if you're nakedly carrying it out in a targeted manner. The only route by which using the wrong pronouns is a felony is if you're already assaulting or intimidating someone or damaging their property, and you'll have to make clear you're doing it becuase you don't like them for their gender whatnot. The bar for "intimidation" is not exactly low in a country with free speech protections.

I think it's a plenty stupid law, but you have to be a bit of a bad actor to imply that it's gonna make using the wrong pronouns a felony. It's an addendum to an older law, that covered race, religion, gender or ethnic origin. Michigan wasn't arresting folks who called other people slurs for felonies, so we're probably safe here.

Here's the law: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(ng5w0xum1idje3hlh02qam5b))/documents/2023-2024/billcurrentversion/House/PDF/2023-HCVBS-4474-0O3311.pdf

I read it as well. I believe you are mistaken- the new part is “ Intimidation”.  And it is defined by the standard “ if a reasonable person” feels threatened. Penalties are certainly ( potentially) more harsh if there is some aspect of violence or property damage.

What I find interesting is that you feel THE ARTICLE is what is sensationalism.  Yet you admit the law is ineffective virtue signaling. 

so - in your eyes a “stupid law” which is ineffective virtue signaling is about to be signed - but the FACTUAL ( everything in the article is 100% true an accurate including numerous quotes taken directly from the Bill) reporting of it is sensationalism. 

It seems obvious that the law is the real sensationalism. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 01, 2023, 10:34:24 AM

The saddest part in all this is "we" need laws to tell us to be nice to each other.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 01, 2023, 10:50:16 AM

already plenty of laws on the books telling us to be nice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 01, 2023, 10:58:12 AM

You can’t legislate brotherly love.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 01, 2023, 11:36:30 AM

:29:

Democrats Devastated As Supreme Court Bans Robbing The Poor | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/democrats-devastated-as-supreme-court-bans-robbing-the-poor?utm_source=The Babylon Bee)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 01, 2023, 11:39:55 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 01, 2023, 11:36:30 AM

:29:

Democrats Devastated As Supreme Court Bans Robbing The Poor | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/democrats-devastated-as-supreme-court-bans-robbing-the-poor?utm_source=The Babylon Bee)

😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 01, 2023, 02:04:00 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on July 01, 2023, 10:26:30 AM

I read it as well. I believe you are mistaken- the new part is “ Intimidation”.  And it is defined by the standard “ if a reasonable person” feels threatened. Penalties are certainly ( potentially) more harsh if there is some aspect of violence or property damage.

What I find interesting is that you feel THE ARTICLE is what is sensationalism.  Yet you admit the law is ineffective virtue signaling. 

so - in your eyes a “stupid law” which is ineffective virtue signaling is about to be signed - but the FACTUAL ( everything in the article is 100% true an accurate including numerous quotes taken directly from the Bill) reporting of it is sensationalism. 

It seems obvious that the law is the real sensationalism. 

To the first part: That law has functionally been on the books for a while, just not applying to that group. We have not not seen a rash of prosecutions to this end. This is in part because the standard for "intimidation" is regularly high in our legal system, in part because of our generous speech protections. 

And yes, it is sensationalism. When you take a very unlikely outcome (basically impossible if you're just using the wrong pronouns), and and attach it to a punishment that's functionally impossibly to get, then make it a big blaring headline about how scary it all is. That would be sensationalism. If the headline read, "Michigan passes dumb, ineffectual law," not particularly sensationalized. 

It's a fact that if you move to Florida, speeding could mean 5 years in prison. That's a real life fact. None the less, we are all grown ups and know it doesn't work that way. Translate that to this. Bad law, less for the gender part and more for the whole structure, sensational and misleading headline. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 01, 2023, 02:31:17 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 01, 2023, 02:04:00 PM

To the first part: That law has functionally been on the books for a while, just not applying to that group. We have not not seen a rash of prosecutions to this end. This is in part because the standard for "intimidation" is regularly high in our legal system, in part because of our generous speech protections.

And yes, it is sensationalism. When you take a very unlikely outcome (basically impossible if you're just using the wrong pronouns), and and attach it to a punishment that's functionally impossibly to get, then make it a big blaring headline about how scary it all is. That would be sensationalism. If the headline read, "Michigan passes dumb, ineffectual law," not particularly sensationalized.

It's a fact that if you move to Florida, speeding could mean 5 years in prison. That's a real life fact. None the less, we are all grown ups and know it doesn't work that way. Translate that to this. Bad law, less for the gender part and more for the whole structure, sensational and misleading headline.

The point is not whether the law can be enforced or the fact that some of the law was already on the books

The point is that pronouns are even mentioned

basically connecting use of pronouns to hate speech

this is way over the top and should not be in this bill

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 01, 2023, 02:38:22 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 01, 2023, 02:31:17 PM

The point is not whether the law can be enforced or the fact that some of the law was already on the books

The point is that pronouns are even mentioned

basically connecting use of pronouns to hate speech

this is way over the top and should not be in this bill

Fortunately, they are not mentioned at all in the bill.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 01, 2023, 02:49:58 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 01, 2023, 02:38:22 PM

Fortunately, they are not mentioned at all in the bill.

Gender identity or expression is used in the law 

pronoun usage would be a possible violation of this provision

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 01, 2023, 03:20:50 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 01, 2023, 02:49:58 PM

Gender identity or expression is used in the law

pronoun usage would be a possible violation of this provision

Riparian rights are also in the law. Be careful not to overwater your lawn or else you might run afoul of this bill.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 01, 2023, 03:27:56 PM

This law tries to outlaw intimidation which is not provable

If I intimidate you tough shit

this is a very bad law and a waste of taxpayers money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 01, 2023, 03:32:38 PM

Odd times we live where people are legally obligated to lie; when grammatically and anatomically correct pronoun usage is branded as "intentionally misgendering" someone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 01, 2023, 03:41:14 PM

Ive always felt that I was Darth Vader

No matter how many times I requested my old boss to call me Commander he refused to do it

I felt very intimidated

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 01, 2023, 03:55:18 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on July 01, 2023, 03:20:50 PM

Riparian rights are also in the law. Be careful not to overwater your lawn or else you might run afoul of this bill.

What would you like to know about this subject?

I've been expert testimony for probably 35-40 cases involving this law and others related to it. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 01, 2023, 04:28:30 PM

Again, there is nothing misleading about the headline, that is not first misleading about the Bill. 

Stop blaming the reporting source for shining a factual light on the people ( in this case-politicians) who are doing the actual misleading to begin with.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 01, 2023, 04:51:31 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on July 01, 2023, 03:27:56 PM

This law tries to outlaw intimidation which is not provable

If I intimidate you tough shit

this is a very bad law and a waste of taxpayers money

There are types of intimidation deemed illegal. That’s factored into the law. 

This insistence on misunderstanding for the sake of being offended is just unnecessary. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 01, 2023, 04:53:54 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on July 01, 2023, 04:28:30 PM

Again, there is nothing misleading about the headline, that is not first misleading about the Bill.

Stop blaming the reporting source for shining a factual light on the people ( in this case-politicians) who are doing the actual misleading to begin with. 

I’m sorry. It is.

You could put your wife in mortal danger by driving her to the airport. That’s factual, but misleading.

It’s misleading for the sake of getting people riled up at one another. And if the preferred situation is having the media rile you you against folks, I’m happy for you on your path.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 01, 2023, 05:04:22 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 01, 2023, 04:53:54 PM

I’m sorry. It is.

You could put your wife in mortal danger by driving her to the airport. That’s factual, but misleading.

It’s misleading for the sake of getting people riled up at one another. And if the preferred situation is having the media rile you you against folks, I’m happy for you on your path.

Again, you ignore the original source of misleading, which is the Bill itself.  So it is you who riled by the media, not me. 

If you were just a little more objective- you would realize that what you described as a “stupid law that is ineffective virtue signaling “ is the point here.

Remember- my original comment which introduced this into the thread- was simply pointing out that stupid laws get passed or introduced all the time, which clearly are not enforceable or constitutional.

YOU were the one who got riled- specifically at the media’s reporting of it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 01, 2023, 05:09:32 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 01, 2023, 03:55:18 PM

What would you like to know about this subject?

I've been expert testimony for probably 35-40 cases involving this law and others related to it. :)

Nothing more than I had to learn to pass the bar

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 01, 2023, 07:28:39 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 01, 2023, 03:55:18 PM

What would you like to know about this subject?

I've been expert testimony for probably 35-40 cases  :)

Quote from: MaximumSam on July 01, 2023, 05:09:32 PM

Nothing more than I had to learn to pass the bar

I would pass any Bar that didn't have at least 35-40 cases,specially during CFB season

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 02, 2023, 09:03:49 AM

Twitter appears to be falling apart on schedule

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2023, 09:28:46 AM

oh well

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 02, 2023, 10:19:41 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on July 02, 2023, 09:03:49 AM

Twitter appears to be falling apart on schedule

(https://i.imgur.com/YNUB10h.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on July 02, 2023, 10:52:30 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on July 01, 2023, 07:28:39 PM

I would pass any Bar that didn't have at least 35-40 cases,specially during CFB season

https://youtube.com/watch?v=7cKPchRDaVM&feature=share9

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 02, 2023, 10:55:21 AM

Twitter User Statistics: How Many People Use Twitter In 2023? (searchlogistics.com) (https://www.searchlogistics.com/learn/statistics/twitter-user-statistics/#:~:text=Twitter has now 368 million,worldwide was almost 11 minutes)

I didn't know there was a schedule for their falling apart, they seem to be lagging a bit to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 02, 2023, 11:18:58 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 02, 2023, 10:55:21 AM

Twitter User Statistics: How Many People Use Twitter In 2023? (searchlogistics.com) (https://www.searchlogistics.com/learn/statistics/twitter-user-statistics/#:~:text=Twitter has now 368 million,worldwide was almost 11 minutes)

I didn't know there was a schedule for their falling apart, they seem to be lagging a bit to me.

It's one of those things I didn't appreciate much at the time. Twitter was perhaps the best site to get news and other things of interest quickly. Now it mostly shows me videos of cats and fights when it is functioning, which isn't always.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 02, 2023, 11:21:17 AM

I never used it*, I wouldn't think of it as ever being a useful source for "news" as I think of the term.  

*Of course, at times I will check something someone links which happens to be on Twitter.  I think I never really understood the core concept.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 02, 2023, 11:27:04 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 02, 2023, 11:21:17 AM

I never used it*, I wouldn't think of it as ever being a useful source for "news" as I think of the term. 

*Of course, at times I will check something someone links which happens to be on Twitter.  I think I never really understood the core concept.

It essentially crowdsourced things people talked about and linked to. So whatever was most popular in the areas of politics, sports, etc. that you showed interest in would appear in your feed. It was also decently reliable, so it became a much better source compared to television or other internet sites as far as speed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 02, 2023, 11:30:41 AM

I mostly use business news sites, I find them more direct, even handed, and the usually avoid "news" items about what some "star" did or said.  Watching the news, for me, on TV, is a waste of time.  I likely am more interested in "business news" than a lot of folks (probably not so much folks here).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2023, 11:34:20 AM

I have a twitter account

haven't been there in months, don't remember the last time

if it went away I wouldn't notice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 02, 2023, 11:47:56 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 02, 2023, 11:30:41 AM

I mostly use business news sites, I find them more direct, even handed, and the usually avoid "news" items about what some "star" did or said.  Watching the news, for me, on TV, is a waste of time.  I likely am more interested in "business news" than a lot of folks (probably not so much folks here).

Well, right. Me too. Something like the Financial Times is solid and reliable, but compared to Twitter (or how Twitter used to be) is slow. If you wanted real time news in whatever subject you wanted, Twitter was tough to beat. However, they got rid of their reliability system when Musk bought it, so it is much more difficult to figure out if what you are seeing is even real. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 02, 2023, 12:08:47 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 02, 2023, 11:21:17 AM

I never used it*, I wouldn't think of it as ever being a useful source for "news" as I think of the term. 

*Of course, at times I will check something someone links which happens to be on Twitter.  I think I never really understood the core concept.

It could be helpful, but source quality is sort of a universal thing. 

If you read people reliable, it was reliable and fast. If you didn’t (and many don’t) it wasn’t. 

Also kind of addictive to follow, which is how it got its current owner. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 02, 2023, 12:13:05 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 02, 2023, 12:08:47 PM

It could be helpful, but source quality is sort of a universal thing.

If you read people reliable, it was reliable and fast. If you didn’t (and many don’t) it wasn’t.

Also kind of addictive to follow, which is how it got its current owner.

Do you feel it has changed? I was sort of sanguine about the whole thing but lately feel it is much more a waste of time than it used to be.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 02, 2023, 12:14:13 PM

I find Facebook useful, at times.  I'm a member of some groups that are pretty neat.  I get most of the "Weird History" notes from FB.  My buddy uses Instagram for his photos, I rarely check it, I don't really get it either.  I post some photos on FB at times.  They seem to end up on Instagram without doing anything, some of them.

I suspect for most here if Twitter "twittered out" it would not change our lives at all.  (And I thought Musk's purchase was mostly a vanity thing, an impulse, when he could have done a lot more with the $44 billion.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 02, 2023, 12:27:48 PM

Constitutional cruelty: Democrats now oppose a democratic process on student loans | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/4076993-constitutional-cruelty-how-democrats-now-oppose-a-democratic-process-on-student-loans/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 02, 2023, 12:35:06 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on July 02, 2023, 12:13:05 PM

Do you feel it has changed? I was sort of sanguine about the whole thing but lately feel it is much more a waste of time than it used to be.

I think it changed in the sense they keep rolling out weird functions and issues. I think my experience changed minimally. I build a feed of things I’m interested in. I avoid the suggestions, though some are good. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 02, 2023, 12:49:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 02, 2023, 11:21:17 AM

I never used it*, I wouldn't think of it as ever being a useful source for "news" as I think of the term. 

*Of course, at times I will check something someone links which happens to be on Twitter.  I think I never really understood the core concept.

Twitter was never about the content itself, it was about how content moves and flows.

Nothing spreads as fast as Twitter. 

Take college football news, for example. I get it here. Which means it relies on whether you folks have seen it and deemed it worthwhile to post. 

If only following a handful of college football accounts on Twitter, however, I'd see it almost immediately. The idea of the "retweet" which takes zero effort compared to posting here means that anything that is compelling pushes through the communities of people who follow that topic--whatever it is--at blazingly fast rates.

Now, some of that content is quality, and other content is bullshit. So you have to have your mental filters engaged. But it moves FAST, which is sometimes itself a quality you can't find elsewhere. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 02, 2023, 01:13:54 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 02, 2023, 12:27:48 PM

Constitutional cruelty: Democrats now oppose a democratic process on student loans | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/4076993-constitutional-cruelty-how-democrats-now-oppose-a-democratic-process-on-student-loans/)

very well written

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 02, 2023, 01:17:27 PM

Hw often do you read something on Twitter of relevance to you and think you probably should check it elsewhere?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 02, 2023, 02:13:13 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on July 01, 2023, 05:04:22 PM

Again, you ignore the original source of misleading, which is the Bill itself.  So it is you who riled by the media, not me. 

If you were just a little more objective- you would realize that what you described as a “stupid law that is ineffective virtue signaling “ is the point here.

Remember- my original comment which introduced this into the thread- was simply pointing out that stupid laws get passed or introduced all the time, which clearly are not enforceable or constitutional.

YOU were the one who got riled- specifically at the media’s reporting of it. 

Let me sum this up more clearly.

The law: Stupid and bad. 

The law: Not stupid bad in the way the article painted, because that article was heavy on bullshit. 

To be more direct, despite a headline that says "bill that could make using wrong pronouns a felony, fineable up to $10,000," the bill cannot make the act of simply using the wrong pronouns as felony, fineable up to $10,000.

(You are to a degree correct on the riled part. I was riled by the way this was reported because it constructed in a way that lied to folks. And the untrue elements seemed to be a large part of what got you riled. To connect back to the top, this law can be both bad, but not bad for the made up reasons in that article.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 02, 2023, 02:29:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 02, 2023, 01:17:27 PM

Hw often do you read something on Twitter of relevance to you and think you probably should check it elsewhere?

Many tweets are just links to news articles or something else. In that case, pretty easy to check it elsewhere. But say you read the Wall Street Journal. Many of the people writing there have their own Twitter accounts and talk about what they are interested in or reporting on before the stories are even published. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 02, 2023, 03:05:23 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 02, 2023, 02:13:13 PM

Let me sum this up more clearly.

The law: Stupid and bad.

The law: Not stupid bad in the way the article painted, because that article was heavy on bullshit.

To be more direct, despite a headline that says "bill that could make using wrong pronouns a felony, fineable up to $10,000," the bill cannot make the act of simply using the wrong pronouns as felony, fineable up to $10,000.

(You are to a degree correct on the riled part. I was riled by the way this was reported because it constructed in a way that lied to folks. And the untrue elements seemed to be a large part of what got you riled. To connect back to the top, this law can be both bad, but not bad for the made up reasons in that article.)

The law reads that if you intimidate another individual by word or act ones gender identity or expression you are in violation of this law

The main concern here is if use of improper pronoun falls into this area

if the writers did not mean that they needed to say so

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 02, 2023, 03:37:02 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 02, 2023, 11:34:20 AM

I have a twitter account

haven't been there in months, don't remember the last time

if it went away I wouldn't notice

Never joined twatter,face space,instaspam,luredin or any of the other shabby hamlets. This place is extent of my social media menacing - lucky for you guyz

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 02, 2023, 04:16:42 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on July 02, 2023, 03:37:02 PM

Never joined twatter,face space,instaspam,luredin or any of the other shabby hamlets. This place is extent of my social media menacing - lucky for you guyz

😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2023, 07:42:07 PM

PARIS (AP) — The grandmother of the French teenager shot dead by police during a traffic stop pleaded Sunday for rioters to stop as the nation faced a sixth straight night of unrest, while authorities expressed outrage at an attack on a mayor’s home that was hit by a burning car that injured family members.

The grandmother of 17-year-old Nahel, identified only as Nadia, said in a telephone interview with French news broadcaster BFM TV, “Don’t break windows, buses ... schools. We want to calm things down.”

She said she was angry at the officer who killed her grandson but not at the police in general and expressed faith in the justice system as France faces its worst social upheaval in years. Her grandson, identified by only his first name, was buried on Saturday.


The violence appeared to be lessening. But as a new night approached, the office of Interior Minister Gerald Darmanin said 45,000 police officers would again be deployed in the streets to counter anger over discrimination against people who trace their roots to former French colonies and live in low-income neighborhoods. Nahel is of Algerian descent and was shot in the Paris suburb of Nanterre.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 03, 2023, 10:39:50 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 02, 2023, 01:17:27 PM

Hw often do you read something on Twitter of relevance to you and think you probably should check it elsewhere?

I no longer do Twitter, but when I did, quite often. It all depends on who you're following. Assuming you're following a lot of people with whom you have a shared interest, chances are there will be a lot of things you see relevant to that shared interest. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 03, 2023, 05:22:44 PM

Monopoly, but communist rules:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkN6xxyEgZc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkN6xxyEgZc)

I would skip ahead to 8:00 or so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on July 05, 2023, 08:42:40 AM

Coming to a glove course near you?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/04/europe/extinction-rebellion-golf-course-spain-climate-intl/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/04/europe/extinction-rebellion-golf-course-spain-climate-intl/index.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 05, 2023, 09:00:23 AM

Golf in Spain uses more water than the cities of Barcelona and Madrid combined, XR said in a video posted on Twitter on Sunday. One hole on a golf course requires more than 100,000 liters (22,000 gallons) of water a day to maintain the area around it, according to XR, which cited data from Spanish non-profit Ecologistas en Acción (Ecologists In Action). Only 0.6% of the population plays golf, XR said.

I'm skeptical of the water use of Barcelona and Madrid combined

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 05, 2023, 10:42:00 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on July 02, 2023, 09:03:49 AM

Twitter appears to be falling apart on schedule

(https://i.imgur.com/YMKqc3H.png)

(https://y.yarn.co/e05b4cb8-3825-4533-88e0-610bfad1d636_text.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 05, 2023, 10:50:51 AM

Apparently Facebook, eh, Meta, is coming out with their own Twitter clone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 05, 2023, 10:53:23 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on July 05, 2023, 10:50:51 AM

Apparently Facebook, eh, Meta, is coming out with their own Twitter clone.

Suspect it's going to fail badly, similar to when Google tried to create their own Facebook clone. 

A few people dissatisfied with Twitter will dabble with it (while keeping their Twitter account because that's where everybody is), and because only a few people are dabbling, it'll never hit the critical mass needed to make it "necessary" to be on their version or be left behind. 

IMHO of course. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 05, 2023, 11:20:29 AM

perhaps it will be much improved

Twitter does nothing for me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on July 05, 2023, 11:27:49 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 05, 2023, 10:53:23 AM

Suspect it's going to fail badly, similar to when Google tried to create their own Facebook clone.

Or when Facebook tried to create their own TikTok clone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 06, 2023, 06:43:40 PM

Long, but worth the read:

https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on July 07, 2023, 06:57:53 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 06, 2023, 06:43:40 PM

Long, but worth the read:

https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/

A big part of enshittification used to be called bait and switch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 07, 2023, 11:46:18 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on July 07, 2023, 06:57:53 AM

A big part of enshittification used to be called bait and switch.

A good point. I wouldn't have thought of that, as it's usually the commercial space where you're baited by a low-price offering that isn't available in the hopes you'll buy a higher-priced alternative. Whereas with social media, it's all "free". 

But it makes sense. You're pulled in by a good experience designed to satisfy you, that is gradually switched out for a much worse experience that is designed to enrich them. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 09, 2023, 02:55:13 PM

The Sinister Reason Companies Are Going Woke (It’s Not What You Think!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s4o3A1Bmvc

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2023, 03:35:21 PM

We had a ton of "woke-like" stiff when I was working, 2000ish, a ton.  Each director had part of his budget for "diversity training".  It was garbage of course, companies spring up offering some version of it with poorly trained "moderators".  One director confided in me he told his admin to find someone to do the training so he could check the box.  It was "mandatory" of course but I just stopped doing around 2004 and nobody ever said a word to me.  It came around once a year, usually at some off site.  If you had the right group, everyone would silently persist and you'd get out around 2 PM with a free lunch, but often some newbie would want to debate and raise "points".

My guess is the CEO could then mention it briefly to the Board.  Those outfits presenting the stuff probably were making $$$ for doing almost nothing.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 10, 2023, 04:30:25 PM

said someone that moved there from Chicago................

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/356832115_6635447889832788_8540143655254209690_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=BDHVvo7Sh1UAX8nTJyU&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDR6OzOTbzAUa-n7GuclP7fc7Ytl6dUnpaZNK56aYuNEQ&oe=64B1D777)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 10, 2023, 04:54:52 PM

That's the sign in front of my house!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 10, 2023, 05:00:06 PM

You live in a bar??? Awesome!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 10, 2023, 05:08:27 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 10, 2023, 05:00:06 PM

You live in a bar??? Awesome!

Yes, it is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 10, 2023, 05:36:52 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 10, 2023, 05:08:27 PM

Yes, it is.

If I hadn't met you in real life, I might assume this was you...



(https://i.imgur.com/1Ov0zHH.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on July 10, 2023, 06:46:51 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 10, 2023, 05:00:06 PM

You live in a bar??? Awesome!

He's always there at home until closing time.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=J-lohQ8w9EQ&feature=share9

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 10, 2023, 07:02:10 PM

Something about rolling down the freeway in a topless Jeep blasting 90s alternative at obscene volumes does wonders for the spirit. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on July 10, 2023, 07:34:52 PM

Sounds like Larry Nassar survived a shanking. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 11, 2023, 09:10:43 AM

Quote from: utee94 on July 10, 2023, 05:36:52 PM

If I hadn't met you in real life, I might assume this was you...



(https://i.imgur.com/1Ov0zHH.png)

Not bad at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 11, 2023, 09:11:15 AM

The States where income grew faster

https://www.wsj.com/articles/gop-states-incomes-economic-growth-bureau-of-economic-analysis-465ce23?st=7oagy8p6tkb896n&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 11, 2023, 01:18:42 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 11, 2023, 09:11:15 AM

The States where income grew faster

https://www.wsj.com/articles/gop-states-incomes-economic-growth-bureau-of-economic-analysis-465ce23?st=7oagy8p6tkb896n&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

The WSJ does the weirdest thing with this.

The clearly have someone doing some light analysis with the data. And whatever it is always makes it a real challenge to see the full picture. (A side effect is that I also can’t tell is there’s some way they’re adjusting for population, which the raw data does not do)

Like, I download the report, and the percentages are nowhere to be found. So I do the basic year over year math, and still not there.

I don’t doubt that set of states has seen an increase in personal income, though the particular conclusion strikes me as a bit of pattern seeing to bolster an opinion piece. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 11, 2023, 01:26:57 PM

Idealism is in direct proportion to distance from reality.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2023, 01:29:58 PM

Kremlin spokesperson: Countermeasures planned in response to Sweden’s NATO membership developments | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/international/4090945-kremlin-spokesman-countermeasures-planned-in-response-to-swedens-nato-membership-developments/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 11, 2023, 02:49:42 PM

Lol

(https://i.imgur.com/jzPAFez.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 11, 2023, 03:55:33 PM

7.  College football-based side hustle

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 11, 2023, 03:56:14 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on July 11, 2023, 01:26:57 PM

Idealism is in direct proportion to distance from reality. 

Who's reality?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2023, 04:00:07 PM

The Logic-Defying Double-Slit Experiment Is Even Weirder Than You Thought (yahoo.com) (https://news.yahoo.com/logic-defying-double-slit-experiment-164411873.html)

A weird thing about "reality", if you pass light through a polarizing filter, about half of it comes out plane polarized,

If you pass that light through another filter at 90° to the first, nothing can pass.

If you insert a filter at 45° between the first and last polarizing filter, you suddenly get an eighth of the light passing through all three.

Reality is very strange.

Dirac Three Polarizers Experiment (informationphilosopher.com) (https://www.informationphilosopher.com/solutions/experiments/dirac_3-polarizers/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 11, 2023, 04:01:34 PM

stranger than fiction

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2023, 07:30:34 AM

Back in the NW burbs again - got in last night after another delay. 

People around here don't smile a lot. Wait staff is indifferent in general.

Then I realize I'm not in Florida.

Oh, and one more thing... Tesla sucks. Never again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 12, 2023, 07:33:47 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2023, 07:30:34 AM

Back in the NW burbs again - got in last night after another delay.

People around here don't smile a lot. Wait staff is indifferent in general.

Then I realize I'm not in Florida.

Oh, and one more thing... Tesla sucks. Never again.

I have driven several Teslas and they were just not well put together vehicles.   

Add that IMO- they are ugly as sin-never had even remote interest in them. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2023, 07:39:37 AM

My stepson rented a Tesla to drive to Cincy from here and liked it, my wife liked it a lot after a short ride.  I looked it over a bit for fit and finish and didn't see any overt flaws.  I am surprised they have not upgraded their models yet cosmetically.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2023, 08:02:59 AM

Never, ever again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2023, 08:06:26 AM

Will Tesla be around in a decade?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 12, 2023, 08:13:10 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on July 12, 2023, 07:33:47 AM

I have driven several Teslas and they were just not well put together vehicles.   

Add that IMO- they are ugly as sin-never had even remote interest in them. 

I'd buy the ugliest car on the lot if it gets me to where I'm going 13-14-15 yrs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2023, 08:36:06 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on July 12, 2023, 08:13:10 AM

I'd buy the ugliest car on the lot if it gets me to where I'm going 13-14-15 yrs

Not without replacing the batter packs 2-3 you won't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 12, 2023, 08:40:00 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2023, 07:30:34 AM

Back in the NW burbs again - got in last night after another delay.

People around here don't smile a lot. Wait staff is indifferent in general.

Then I realize I'm not in Florida.

Oh, and one more thing... Tesla sucks. Never again.

I'd like more info on the Tesla thing.  Range?  Build?  Performance?  Are you renting one?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 12, 2023, 08:49:59 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2023, 08:36:06 AM

Not without replacing the batter packs 2-3 you won't.

I'll Amish before I go electric

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 08:54:30 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on July 12, 2023, 08:13:10 AM

I'd buy the ugliest car on the lot if it gets me to where I'm going 13-14-15 yrs

nothing to be proud of Rusty

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2023, 09:07:24 AM

I expect my next vehicle will be a hybrid, maybe a plugin hybrid, not a full EV, but that hopefully is 3-4 years out.  I've already given up on having a manual transmission.

We have EV plugins in the building, and six more at nearby Kroger.  I understand they cost about 3X more than plugging in at home.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2023, 09:36:11 AM

Quote from: Gigem on July 12, 2023, 08:40:00 AM

I'd like more info on the Tesla thing.  Range?  Build?  Performance?  Are you renting one? 

Renting for a couple of days. It's awkward, rides like crap, lots of rattles, I have to charge it somewhere before I return it.

Everything is on a touch screen. To turn it off you have to flash a fob on the outside. There is no key or keyless go/entry.

Garbage car.

Model 3.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 12, 2023, 09:39:32 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2023, 09:36:11 AM

Renting for a couple of days. It's awkward, rides like crap, lots of rattles, I have to charge it somewhere before I return it.

Everything is on a touch screen. To turn it off you have to flash a fob on the outside. There is no key or keyless go/entry.

Garbage car.

Model 3.

It's just unfamiliar to you.
That's all.
Jesus.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 12, 2023, 09:44:42 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2023, 09:36:11 AM

Renting for a couple of days. It's awkward, rides like crap, lots of rattles, I have to charge it somewhere before I return it.

Everything is on a touch screen. To turn it off you have to flash a fob on the outside. There is no key or keyless go/entry.

Garbage car.

Model 3.

The 2 I test drove were brand new.  

I hated the ride, the suspension and the handling ( or lack thereof). Plus- how can a new car have that many rattles?   

The car just felt like junk.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 09:58:47 AM

After two years of painfully high prices, inflation in the United States has reached its lowest point in more than two years — 3% in June compared with 12 months earlier — a sign that the Federal Reserve’s interest rate hikes have steadily slowed price increases across the economy.

The inflation figure the government reported Wednesday was down sharply from a 4% annual rate in May, though still above the Fed’s 2% target rate. Over the past 12 months, gas prices have dropped, grocery costs have risen more slowly and used cars have become less expensive. From May to June, overall prices rose 0.2%, up from just 0.1% in the previous month but still comparatively mild.

At the same time, some underlying inflation pressures remain high and a nagging concern for the Fed, which is all but certain to increase its key interest rate again when it meets in two weeks. The Fed has raised its benchmark rate by a substantial 5 percentage points since March 2022, the steepest pace of increases in four decades. Its expected hike this month will follow the central bank’s decision to pause its rate increases last month after 10 consecutive hikes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 10:50:51 AM

New 52 Week High Today

S&P 500 Index

Last | 10:50 AM EDT
4,486.37

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 12, 2023, 11:35:20 AM

Wait, so does that mean Biden is still an evil buffoon trying to destroy America?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2023, 11:37:48 AM

In my view, Presidents usually have much less to do with the economy and the stock market than many believe.  "We" blame, or credit them, for economic factors which often are outside their control or influence.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 11:45:58 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 12, 2023, 11:35:20 AM

Wait, so does that mean Biden is still an evil buffoon trying to destroy America?

obviously

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 11:46:52 AM

The X-59 aircraft—the centerpiece of NASA’s Quesst mission—is designed to demonstrate the ability to fly supersonic, or faster than Mach 1, while reducing the loud sonic boom to a quiet sonic thump. NASA will then fly the X-59 over several communities to gather data on human responses to the sound generated during supersonic flight. NASA will deliver that data set to U.S. and international regulators to possibly enable commercial supersonic flight over land.

https://scitechdaily.com/sonic-thump-not-sonic-boom-nasas-x-59-quiet-supersonic-aircraft-rolls-out/ (https://scitechdaily.com/sonic-thump-not-sonic-boom-nasas-x-59-quiet-supersonic-aircraft-rolls-out/)


So, the reason we don't have faster flights is because the noise is unpleasant?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2023, 11:58:58 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 12, 2023, 09:39:32 AM

It's just unfamiliar to you.
That's all.
Jesus.

Try driving one and get back to me. Then drive a Benz and tell me what you like better.

I'll hang up and listen for my answer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2023, 12:06:42 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on July 12, 2023, 09:44:42 AM

The 2 I test drove were brand new. 

I hated the ride, the suspension and the handling ( or lack thereof). Plus- how can a new car have that many rattles? 

The car just felt like junk. 

I only rode in one*, briefly.  It seemed OK from that seat, my step son liked it.  He's sort of an early adopter.  I wouldn't buy an EV at this point even if one is well built and engineered.  

*I rode a fair bit in a European VW EV taxi, it seemed pretty solid, to me.  I'd consider one in Europe, Norway is already past the halfway point in new car sales.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2023, 12:09:44 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 12, 2023, 11:37:48 AM

In my view, Presidents usually have much less to do with the economy and the stock market than many believe.  "We" blame, or credit them, for economic factors which often are outside their control or influence.

Exactly.

And as for #46, the standard question applies.

Are you better off today than you were 2.5 years ago?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2023, 12:11:43 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2023, 12:09:44 PM

Are you better off today than you were 2.5 years ago?

I ask whether the country is better off.  I am better off than 2.5 years ago personally, but that isn't how I look at the political fray.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 12, 2023, 12:12:14 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2023, 11:58:58 AM

Try driving one and get back to me. Then drive a Benz and tell me what you like better.

I'll hang up and listen for my answer.

I have.
Didn't notice any rattling or shabby feelings towards it.
It took some getting used to.  
The fact that it doesn't coast was the biggest thing for me.  Hard habit to break, but you didn't mention that difference at all.
Just unfamiliar.
Different.
Not crap.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 12, 2023, 12:13:48 PM

Damn, some of you are anti-progress no matter what.  It's nuts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 12:48:33 PM

we are old men

if you're lucky you will turn out the same in a couple decades

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 12, 2023, 01:10:56 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 12, 2023, 09:07:24 AM

I expect my next vehicle will be a hybrid, maybe a plugin hybrid, not a full EV, but that hopefully is 3-4 years out.  I've already given up on having a manual transmission.

We have EV plugins in the building, and six more at nearby Kroger.  I understand they cost about 3X more than plugging in at home.

As we've talked about quite a bit on the EV thread, I'd really love for someone to develop a hybrid SUV/pickup with a high-end towing capacity.  It seems like an absolutely perfect use case to me, but I guess I'm in a deep minority because if there were a market for it, I have no doubt the truck manufacturers would be all over it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 12, 2023, 01:19:40 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 12, 2023, 12:13:48 PM

Damn, some of you are anti-progress no matter what.  It's nuts.

Looking at from an economic standpoint- the greatest impact an administration typically has on inflation is directly related to their spending policies/ budget, as well as specific policies or legislation they may have pushed through that has clear impacts on consumers.  Inflation for example- is much more impacted by the Fed.

In that sense- the Fed has been, and will continue to try to bring inflation under control through 2 primary ways.  Interest rates and balance sheet. They have intentionally stamped the liquidity out of the market with the balance sheet and drastically slowed, consumer spending and business spending by raising interest rates. It is painful, but it is starting to work and probably had to be done. Unfortunately, they still have a way to go. 

Biden’s ( Democrat) spending has been completely out of control, and exacerbate was the problem, regardless of whether you agree, or disagree with what he spending the money on. There is no debate about that.

Evil?  Not sure he is capable of that because that would require solid thought.

Buffoon?  On his good days, maybe. 

instead of spending hours, giving all the reasons that I am so many, millions of others feel that way I will just give you a couple.

He is by far the most racist, divisive, and corrupt president of my lifetime.  He promised to be the great uniter, but every word out of his mouth is divisive, or racially, motivated, and he has a weaponized. The FBI and the department of justice two levels were it’s gone from unbelievable to almost humorous at this juncture.  His rhetoric about any one who doesn’t agree with him, or supports a different party than his, or the supreme court, are downright dangerous.

Add in the fact that he doesn’t know what day it is mocha the time or where he’s at and yes you have a complete buffoon. 

It’s great being American. We have had two buffoons in a row in the White House and no sign of relief coming anytime soon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2023, 01:50:53 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 12, 2023, 12:13:48 PM

Damn, some of you are anti-progress no matter what.  It's nuts.

I'm for progress if it makes sense. EV's, to me, are not progress. They could get there, but they are not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2023, 01:52:47 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2023, 01:50:53 PM

I'm for progress if it makes sense. EV's, to me, are not progress. They could get there, but they are not.

The matter of poor build quality could be related to one maker.  The other issues are pretty much the same for everyone at this point.  My guess is 5-7 years to reach near parity.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 12, 2023, 02:10:24 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2023, 12:09:44 PM

Exactly.

And as for #46, the standard question applies.

Are you better off today than you were 2.5 years ago?

I am! And it doesn't have a damn thing to do with the President. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 02:17:22 PM

I am too

Lucky to not have touched my 401K yet

and have a better job

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2023, 02:17:54 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 12, 2023, 02:10:24 PM

I am! And it doesn't have a damn thing to do with the President.

I know lots and lots of people on fixed incomes who are NOT better off, and it has a whole lot to do with #46 and the irresponsible policies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 02:19:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 12, 2023, 01:52:47 PM

The matter of poor build quality could be related to one maker.  The other issues are pretty much the same for everyone at this point.  My guess is 5-7 years to reach near parity.

yup, I'm guessing EVs will improve noticeably in the next 5-10 years

maybe I'll be interested then
I doubt it 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 02:20:42 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2023, 02:17:54 PM

I know lots and lots of people on fixed incomes who are NOT better off, and it has a whole lot to do with #46 and the irresponsible policies.

not even folks with huge student loans are better off today  ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2023, 02:22:59 PM

I would surmise most "regular folks" are worse off, though it's not showing up in consumer spending, yet, I think because credit card debt is rising.  Inflation bites middle and lower classes harder.  I'm not upper class of course, but I can adjust my spending pretty easily because a lot of it is discretionary.  I personally am better off though mostly because of the stock market.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 12, 2023, 02:27:18 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 12, 2023, 12:13:48 PM

Damn, some of you are anti-progress no matter what.  It's nuts.

I don't consider myself anti-progress. I've said numerous times that as of my last car purchase (2017), there were no EVs that met my needs at my price range and there was not a robust enough EV infrastructure to support the EVs on the road. I've also said that at my likely next purchase (2027ish?) my needs will have changed (one kid off to college and another soon to be), and both EV infrastructure has improved and there will be many more EV options for purchase at that time. *And* there might be a more robust used market at that time that isn't really mature yet. So I may go for one. 

The issue when you start talking about Tesla, however, is that the Tesla Model 3 is *not* a luxury sedan. Tesla fans like to compare it to the BMW 3-series, Mercedes something (I don't know their lineup), Audi A4, etc. But although it's priced like them, it's not actually built as nicely. 

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2023, 01:50:53 PM

I'm for progress if it makes sense. EV's, to me, are not progress. They could get there, but they are not.

It all depends how you define progress. And whether you consider "not burning gasoline" as progress in its own right. 

I think from a performance standpoint, EV can be a pretty significant progress. I also think from a maintenance standpoint, an EV powertrain can be pretty significant progress. And charging at home and nearly never needing to visit a gas station is progress and a quality of life improvement for many. 

But I think that RIGHT NOW the cost of batteries limits EVs to the upper end of the market. Very few BEVs are available at the bottom end of the market, pretty much just the Bolt and Leaf. And outside of Tesla, most EV makers are still going through the learning curve of bringing them to market, so how trustworthy some of these models are is questionable. 

But I do think there are some advantages to the BEV powertrain relative to ICEV once the economics pencil out. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 12, 2023, 02:33:21 PM

Better off is a weird measure.  

If you graduated with a masters degree three years ago, and found a nice high-paying job not long after that, of course you’re going to be better off.

Can you afford groceries? Can you afford fuel for your car? Can you afford to upgrade your house and move to the next level? Are you happy with what your child is learning in school? Do you feel you have the ability to influence that? Are you free to speak your mind and your opinion about political issues or social issues? Do you feel like our military is improving and can defend the country if necessary? Do you feel the government is focused on spending money on the right things? Do you feel like government is more invasive in your life or less invasive? Do you feel like people are getting along better or is the country more polarized than it was? Do you feel like our country has improved his standing in the world as far as manufacturing and education? 

I feel like the answer to every single one of those questions is not positive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2023, 02:46:21 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/TCMSLiW.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2023, 02:57:08 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/bxcQ3kM.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 12, 2023, 03:13:20 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 12, 2023, 02:57:08 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/bxcQ3kM.png)

Hopped on the scale this morning, and at 258.8 it's the second day in a row I've been under 260. Maybe I'm breaking through the plateau in that 260-263 range that I've been in for months. 

I've definitely been burning some fat though with all the strength work. Even though my weight hasn't changed, my body sure looks different... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 03:14:02 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 12, 2023, 02:27:18 PM

And charging at home and nearly never needing to visit a gas station is progress and a quality of life improvement for many.

if you're only driving enough to charge at home over night, you're not visiting the gas station very often. once a week or every two weeks for 5-10 minutes
visiting the gas station is relatively painless today with pay at the pump.  Only takes a few minutes and w/o human interaction.

but, I agree.  Charging in the garage is more convenient than visiting the gas pump

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 12, 2023, 03:23:15 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 03:14:02 PM

if you're only driving enough to charge at home over night, you're not visiting the gas station very often. once a week or every two weeks for 5-10 minutes
visiting the gas station is relatively painless today with pay at the pump.  Only takes a few minutes and w/o human interaction.

but, I agree.  Charging in the garage is more convenient than visiting the gas pump

With most modern EVs having 250+ mile ranges, and with installing a Level 2 charger, you can do a LOT of daily driving and still be able to charge overnight at home. Given most people only charge to 80% unless prepping for a road trip, that gives you 200 mi/day. 

If you're the type of person who has to eat some miles on sales calls visiting customers, or has a hellish commute, you could EASILY be the type of driver that has to fill up multiple times a week, and have that go to zero times a week with a BEV. 

I personally don't find filling my gas tank to be a problem. But I know a lot of women find it, well, a little dirty, and would prefer to avoid it. My wife fills her car often as she drives more than I do, and is not some delicate flower that's incapable of doing it. But if we're in my wife's car together and it needs to be filled, I take over those duties and she's always grateful that I do. And this is in temperate Southern California, where we rarely need to deal with rain, and never need to deal with freezing temps. I remember filling my tank in cold Chicago winters, and would prefer not to do that if I didn't have to lol. 

I think "nearly never visiting a gas station" is one of the things that people don't appreciate about EVs until they own one, at least that's what I've heard from talking to EV owners. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 03:27:02 PM

if I were in charge of a hotel chain.......

I'd install chargers for the road warriors.
Perhaps for a small fee at first to help pay for the initial cost

there is a new Hilton in downtown Des Moines with 2 chargers out front

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2023, 03:30:21 PM

It's also a less expensive.  The average cost of electricity is about 17 cents, it's about 12 cents here, per kWhr.

The average EV needs about 35 kWhrs to go 100 miles.  So, about $6 per hundred miles national average.  Figure gasoline at $3.50 and 33 mpg and you need $10.50 in gas.

And herein lies an issue, using those averages if my math is OK.  You save $4.50 per hundred miles,  $540 per 12 thousand miles, great.  But the EV is gonna cost more right now, quite a bit more, which is why they still need these tax credits.  Is my math right?

You also save on brakes and oil changes as well.  The matter about battery replacement costs is still all over the place.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 12, 2023, 03:33:27 PM

Anchor Brewing has shut down.

https://www.beervanablog.com/beervana/2023/7/12/anchor-brewing-1896-2023

Often described as the oldest operating "craft brewery" in America, and absolutely one of the ones that kicked off the craft movement when Fritz Maytag took it over and started brewing "steam beer", it's one that I am sad to see go. 

Granted, I feel my own pang of guilt, because while I'm very sad to see it gone, it's not like I can even remember the last time I've bought an Anchor beer. I think I might have bought a big bottle of Christmas Ale a few years back, but you probably have to go several years farther since I've had Anchor Steam. So I guess I was part of the problem. 

But it's still sad as hell. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 03:41:18 PM

I drank Anchor Steam whenever I found it

one of my all-time favs

damn sad day

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2023, 03:43:52 PM

No chargers at the brand-new Hampton in Barrington. I asked.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 12, 2023, 03:45:04 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 12, 2023, 03:30:21 PM

It's also a less expensive.  The average cost of electricity is about 17 cents, it's about 12 cents here, per kWhr.

The average EV needs about 35 kWhrs to go 100 miles.  So, about $6 per hundred miles national average.  Figure gasoline at $3.50 and 33 mpg and you need $10.50 in gas.

And herein lies an issue, using those averages if my math is OK.  You save $4.50 per hundred miles,  $540 per 12 thousand miles, great.  But the EV is gonna cost more right now, quite a bit more, which is why they still need these tax credits.  Is my math right?

You also save on brakes and oil changes as well.  The matter about battery replacement costs is still all over the place.

That's the issue here. Electricity costs have gone insane. Gas is also more expensive here than almost everywhere else, but not anywhere near electricity costs. 

Last month I averaged 35.5 c/kWh. So that's $12.44 to go 100 miles. 

Gas here was $4.55/gal yesterday at Costco. Assuming that same 33.3 (for the math) mpg, it's $13.65 to go 100 miles.

So barely any savings at all. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 04:05:04 PM

Total kWh 445 last month

(https://i.imgur.com/unGPmJ4.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 12, 2023, 04:21:43 PM

Yikes. I was at 515 kWh last month and my bill was $183.

And now we're getting into the time of year that we're going to have to run AC. I'm expecting a few bills in the $500 range if last year was any indication. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 04:31:11 PM

apparently, all the windmills in Iowa help

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2023, 04:32:49 PM

Ouch.  I averaged $100 per month year round 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 04:39:47 PM

I'm guessing my average would be around $75-80

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 12, 2023, 05:15:58 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 12, 2023, 03:33:27 PM

Anchor Brewing has shut down.

https://www.beervanablog.com/beervana/2023/7/12/anchor-brewing-1896-2023

:03: dafuq haven't had one in a while go to the corner berfore it gets fugly

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 12, 2023, 05:35:18 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 12, 2023, 03:33:27 PM

Anchor Brewing has shut down.

https://www.beervanablog.com/beervana/2023/7/12/anchor-brewing-1896-2023

Often described as the oldest operating "craft brewery" in America, and absolutely one of the ones that kicked off the craft movement when Fritz Maytag took it over and started brewing "steam beer", it's one that I am sad to see go.

Granted, I feel my own pang of guilt, because while I'm very sad to see it gone, it's not like I can even remember the last time I've bought an Anchor beer. I think I might have bought a big bottle of Christmas Ale a few years back, but you probably have to go several years farther since I've had Anchor Steam. So I guess I was part of the problem.

But it's still sad as hell.

Darn, I'm sad to see it go as well.

I typically get some Anchor Christmas each year, but other than that I don't really buy their beers either.  So many great local options for me, I don't buy out of state all that often.

So, I blame you Californians for their demise.  Shame, shame, shame.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 12, 2023, 06:14:27 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 12, 2023, 03:33:27 PM

Anchor Brewing has shut down.

What was the unique process - an ale that was lagered or sumsuch?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 12, 2023, 06:28:49 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on July 12, 2023, 06:14:27 PM

What was the unique process - an ale that was lagered or sumsuch?

Kinda the opposite, bottom-fermenting lager yeasts, but at ale-fermenting temps.  Had a distinct flavor, I liked it pretty well but not well enough to drink much of it once there were a million other craft beer options.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on July 12, 2023, 06:40:22 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 03:27:02 PM

if I were in charge of a hotel chain.......

I'd install chargers for the road warriors.
Perhaps for a small fee at first to help pay for the initial cost

there is a new Hilton in downtown Des Moines with 2 chargers out front

Don't go into work anymore, but when a company I worked for installed chargers for those who had EV cars, I asked when are they installing gas pumps for me to get some free gas. Didn't go over well. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 07:13:26 PM

no wonder you don't go into work anymore

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 12, 2023, 07:20:19 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on July 12, 2023, 06:40:22 PM

Don't go into work anymore, but when a company I worked for installed chargers for those who had EV cars, I asked when are they installing gas pumps for me to get some free gas. Didn't go over well.

LOL. I don't know what it was like when they were first installed, but my work has EV chargers in the parking garage, and they are NOT providing "free" electricity paid for by the company. They are commercial chargers. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 12, 2023, 07:23:39 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 12, 2023, 07:20:19 PM

LOL. I don't know what it was like when they were first installed, but my work has EV chargers in the parking garage, and they are NOT providing "free" electricity paid for by the company. They are commercial chargers.

So does that mean a 3rd party charges for the connection and electricity?

My company has vast parking lots full of solar panels installed on the roofs of covered parking, and free electricity for charging of employees' EVs that comes directly from the solar arrays.

Lots of that electricity also goes to supplying the buildings themselves. Company goal to be 75% renewable electricity from our own grounds/facilities by 2030 and 100% by 2040.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 12, 2023, 08:09:33 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 12, 2023, 07:23:39 PM

So does that mean a 3rd party charges for the connection and electricity?

My company has vast parking lots full of solar panels installed on the roofs of covered parking, and free electricity for charging of employees' EVs that comes directly from the solar arrays.

Lots of that electricity also goes to supplying the buildings themselves. Company goal to be 75% renewable electricity from our own grounds/facilities by 2030 and 100% by 2040.

Of note: this campus is not owned by us. We have space within the campus, and the parking garage is operated by the overall campus. I know that there are some limits (i.e. only our employees can park in THAT portion of the garage). So I don't know who actually installed the chargers and what the official agreements are. 

But I know that I've talked to coworkers who are EV owners and the chargers aren't free to the user. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 12, 2023, 11:39:15 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2023, 02:17:54 PM

I know lots and lots of people on fixed incomes who are NOT better off, and it has a whole lot to do with #46 and the irresponsible policies.

Well that isn't the standard question, now is it? :)

(I assume with the passage of time, people on fixed incomes will always be worse off, as deflation isn't ever really a thing. But if people see all this through that lens, I'll leave them to it)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 12, 2023, 11:41:31 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 12, 2023, 03:33:27 PM

Anchor Brewing has shut down.

https://www.beervanablog.com/beervana/2023/7/12/anchor-brewing-1896-2023

Often described as the oldest operating "craft brewery" in America, and absolutely one of the ones that kicked off the craft movement when Fritz Maytag took it over and started brewing "steam beer", it's one that I am sad to see go.

Granted, I feel my own pang of guilt, because while I'm very sad to see it gone, it's not like I can even remember the last time I've bought an Anchor beer. I think I might have bought a big bottle of Christmas Ale a few years back, but you probably have to go several years farther since I've had Anchor Steam. So I guess I was part of the problem.

But it's still sad as hell.

Sad day, but they had to walk so others could run.

They had a tasting room in my hometown. Never went, but always seemed like an interesting stop. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on July 13, 2023, 07:07:18 AM

If I remember correctly it's pretty pricey.  Like $12 on the East Coast for a six pack.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2023, 08:27:14 AM

Decades ago I'd watch Wall Street Week on PBS every Friday evening seeking some investment advice worth nothing.  I chuckled every time someone would say "We're in a time of increasing market uncertainty" and then weasle words to that effect.  One guyu was constantly bearish as I recall, two other guests were the reverse.  Then I started reading "The Value Line" for advice and rankings, and that actually wasn't awful, I learned a bit, but in reality it wasn't providing any deep unique insights either.  I didn't have enough money at the time to invest much at all fortuntaly, but I kind of learned not to listen to "experts".  I figured the real experts, if any exist, aren't on TV.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2023, 08:41:03 AM

Opinion: It’s about the economy, and Biden’s team knows it | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/10/opinions/bidenomics-2024-presidential-election-challenge-chen/index.html)

This is a pretty lame "opinion" in my view, basically saying politicians like to shape opinions on the economy, duh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 13, 2023, 08:53:01 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 09:58:47 AM

After two years of painfully high prices, inflation in the United States has reached its lowest point in more than two years — 3% in June compared with 12 months earlier — a sign that the Federal Reserve’s interest rate hikes have steadily slowed price increases across the economy.

The inflation figure the government reported Wednesday was down sharply from a 4% annual rate in May, though still above the Fed’s 2% target rate. Over the past 12 months, gas prices have dropped, grocery costs have risen more slowly and used cars have become less expensive. From May to June, overall prices rose 0.2%, up from just 0.1% in the previous month but still comparatively mild.

At the same time, some underlying inflation pressures remain high and a nagging concern for the Fed, which is all but certain to increase its key interest rate again when it meets in two weeks. The Fed has raised its benchmark rate by a substantial 5 percentage points since March 2022, the steepest pace of increases in four decades. Its expected hike this month will follow the central bank’s decision to pause its rate increases last month after 10 consecutive hikes.

I guess that is good news. However, all they are saying is that that the rate of prices going up is slower than it has been. That doesn't mean that prices have come down, just that they are not going up as fast as they were. This is nothing but spin, trying to put lipstick on a pig. Consumer prices are still much higher than they were 3 years ago and are not coming down anytime soon. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2023, 08:57:32 AM

Prices overall won't come down, barring economic calamity, that isn't the goal of the Fed.  Some inflation is good, generally, the Fed likes the 2% figure.

The reason it's still not a great result at 3% is that the comparison is a year ago when inflation was quite high.  The Fed is going to tighten more because they view it as too high.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2023, 08:59:14 AM

A lot of the lower inflation figures relate to energy costs which of course had spiked a year or so back.  $5 gas wasn't sustainable.  So that set a figure high since it runs all through the economy, and now gas is more like $3.50, which is a long term gasoline price adjusted for inflation, on average.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 13, 2023, 09:04:53 AM

prices overall do not come down

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 13, 2023, 09:05:00 AM

Scientists at the University of Alberta spent seven years determining that human urine contains 3,079 different chemical compounds.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2023, 09:08:09 AM

Heh.  Once upon a time, it was thought that only a living thing could produce an organic compound, but then urea was synthesized (which really isn't all that organic).



German chemist Friedrich Wöhler first synthesized urea from ammonium cyanate in 1828. It was the first generally accepted laboratory synthesis of a naturally occurring organic compound from inorganic materials. Urea is now prepared commercially in vast amounts from liquid ammonia and liquid carbon dioxide.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 13, 2023, 10:17:52 AM

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/12/business/jamie-dimon-bidenomics/index.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2023, 03:02:42 PM

Disney TV assets could be for sale, Iger says (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/13/disney-ceo-iger-opens-door-to-unloading-tv-assets.html)

ESPN???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 13, 2023, 07:36:16 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 13, 2023, 03:02:42 PM

Disney TV assets could be for sale, Iger says (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/13/disney-ceo-iger-opens-door-to-unloading-tv-assets.html)

ESPN???

Yup, seems like a strange divestiture, considering live sports are among the few ad-worthy broadcasts anymore.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 13, 2023, 11:14:27 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 13, 2023, 07:36:16 PM

Yup, seems like a strange divestiture, considering live sports are among the few ad-worthy broadcasts anymore.

From a buyer perspective, I'd be gun-shy.

Despite all the negatives, ESPN is basically be the best company out there at doing a sports broadcast, and there's basically only 4-5 other companies in the space. So if you change and people are worried, talent goes to the other ones, ESPN's quality goes down, and you're having to answer to a bunch of clients why their product is worse to consume. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 14, 2023, 04:16:02 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 12, 2023, 03:33:27 PM

Anchor Brewing has shut down.

https://youtu.be/rM8tROzp4Dc

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2023, 07:53:41 AM

I think ESPN could try and understand their customer base and fore some more folks and do a better job on sports, rather than talk.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Kris60 on July 14, 2023, 09:05:02 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 13, 2023, 09:08:09 AM

Heh.  Once upon a time, it was thought that only a living thing could produce an organic compound, but then urea was synthesized (which really isn't all that organic).



German chemist Friedrich Wöhler first synthesized urea from ammonium cyanate in 1828. It was the first generally accepted laboratory synthesis of a naturally occurring organic compound from inorganic materials. Urea is now prepared commercially in vast amounts from liquid ammonia and liquid carbon dioxide.

In my freshman high school science class our teacher was talking about urea.  We had learned earlier in the year that that the prefix di meant two.  So, a buddy of mine raised his hand and asked the teacher if urea split in the body if we could say we had “diurea.”  The whole class roared.  Even got a laugh out of the teacher.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 14, 2023, 10:16:35 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 14, 2023, 07:53:41 AM

I think ESPN could try and understand their customer base and fore some more folks and do a better job on sports, rather than talk.

I would prolly agree with that but dropped cable 2 &1/2 yrs ago don't pay for streaming device either. Do have a smart TV that that pix up some good stuff

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 14, 2023, 01:43:16 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on July 14, 2023, 10:16:35 AM

I would prolly agree with that but dropped cable 2 &1/2 yrs ago don't pay for streaming device either. Do have a smart TV that that pix up some good stuff

Agreed.  After dropping YoutubeTV, I was surprised at how much there is outside of any apps or services.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 14, 2023, 01:43:38 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 14, 2023, 07:53:41 AM

I think ESPN could try and understand their customer base and fore some more folks and do a better job on sports, rather than talk.

Guess which one gets the ratings from the masses.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 14, 2023, 01:46:17 PM

Did Steven A. Smith get whacked yet?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 14, 2023, 01:51:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 14, 2023, 01:46:17 PM

Did Steven A. Smith get whacked yet?

No, he's the prime mover.  Attracts eyeballs, most of which hate him.  He's a 1-man facebook algorithm.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 14, 2023, 01:58:15 PM

He has a very punchable face.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 14, 2023, 02:00:55 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 14, 2023, 01:58:15 PM

He has a very punchable face.

If all ESPN wanted to do was cut budget, wouldn't get ax the guy they're paying the most?  
They're trimming all the fat in order to keep the loudmouth obnoxious guys they pay well and get clicks and eyeballs.
Guys who yell.
Guys who purposely have takes that are wrong, in order to incite.
Same as every absurd football post on my Facebook feed.....clicks and comments via ridiculousness. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 14, 2023, 02:45:28 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 14, 2023, 01:43:16 PM

Agreed.  After dropping YoutubeTV, I was surprised at how much there is outside of any apps or services. 

I haven't found any sports on it though but it is in the basement rec-room that Cindy inhabits more.That prolly doesn't snag as much reception in cyber space down in the subterranean recesses. It's a 65" SONY and she doesn't want it in the living room

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 14, 2023, 02:50:41 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 14, 2023, 02:00:55 PM

If all ESPN wanted to do was cut budget, wouldn't get ax the guy they're paying the most? 
They're trimming all the fat in order to keep the loudmouth obnoxious guys they pay well and get clicks and eyeballs.
Guys who yell.

Any poster here on their drunkest night would bring more accuracy and integrity than Screamin' A Smith to a broadcast. Not even sure if he is still with the World Wide Leaders though,if so another reason to ignore that gaggle of squawking twats

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2023, 02:51:38 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on July 14, 2023, 02:50:41 PM

Any poster here on their drunkest night would bring more accuracy and integrity than Screamin' A Smith to a broadcast. Not even sure if he is still with the World Wide Leaders though,if so another reason to ignore that gaggle of squawking twats

I doubt we'd bring the viewers though, which is the point of this.  Stoopid stuff gets clicks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 14, 2023, 02:56:13 PM

During CFB season I'd take that bet most knowledgeable fans know if he fell into a pool of tits he'd come up sucking his thumbs.
Can you see Mdot, Fearless and OAM in the booth together? I'd pay for the premier and see how it shakes out


(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia0.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FuqPDIEPMODKne%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=4fc3b9717233169df149501ba76b97d2869bcdd960013d4c736d7a7cd7d63b8a&ipo=images) (https://media0.giphy.com/media/uqPDIEPMODKne/giphy.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 14, 2023, 03:12:40 PM

Easiest place for all of us to meet would be Nashville. Atlanta and Charlotte also good possibilities. Pretty sure you can fly direct to those from pretty much anywhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 14, 2023, 03:18:18 PM

Horns play @Vandy in 2024...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 15, 2023, 12:10:41 PM

:57:


D.C. Residents Concerned Crack House On Pennsylvania Avenue Will Drag Down Housing Market | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/dc-residents-concerned-crack-house-on-pennsylvania-avenue-will-drag-down-housing-market?utm_source=The Babylon Bee)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 15, 2023, 03:03:02 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on July 14, 2023, 02:56:13 PM

During CFB season I'd take that bet most knowledgeable fans know if he fell into a pool of tits he'd come up sucking his thumbs.
Can you see Mdot, Fearless and OAM in the booth together? I'd pay for the premier and see how it shakes out


(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia0.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FuqPDIEPMODKne%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=4fc3b9717233169df149501ba76b97d2869bcdd960013d4c736d7a7cd7d63b8a&ipo=images) (https://media0.giphy.com/media/uqPDIEPMODKne/giphy.gif)

I think any group of us would actually work well on the football side of things.  If/when we strayed from that, THEN we'd get the deluge of clicks and eyeballs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 15, 2023, 10:42:15 PM

I just don't see any benefit to watch unhinged halfwits,screamin' A and Skip Clueless,who would bother? neither funny,informative or thought provoking. Go visit a stroke unit they'd make the same noise and at least we could maybe cheer some one up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 15, 2023, 11:00:47 PM

I got the covid again.  Slight fever w/ cold symptoms.  Annoying.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 15, 2023, 11:15:04 PM

Maybe it's the 117 degree temps

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 16, 2023, 12:03:25 AM

I'm guessing it was the 6-7 hours spent in the Orlando airport.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 16, 2023, 07:51:11 AM

A twitter thingie has a list of the best pizza joint in every college town.  I predicted the one for Gainesville correctly.
Can you guess any from your school's town or nearby site?  
It's not your "best," but likely just the one with that reputation.
.
I'm getting a deja vu feeling that I've posted something like this before, but whatever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 16, 2023, 08:27:12 AM

Valentinos is famous in Lincoln 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2023, 08:46:33 AM

Could probably put this in the "rankings" post too.  

I read a bit more about Michelin coming to ATL to rank restaurants.  They claim they visit several times, I don't know how they choose which one's make the first cut.  Anyway, it sounds expensive, to me.  One of the nice places in town is $105 pre fixe per person, no wine included of course.  The probably pay special attention to any single male (or female) who shows up to dine.  Anyway, if they target say 20 places to start, they'd be looking at quite he princely sum.  I'd volunteer to go if I knew how to do it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 16, 2023, 09:15:08 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 16, 2023, 08:27:12 AM

Valentinos is famous in Lincoln

Yup, that's what's on the list.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 16, 2023, 09:37:03 AM

Man I have no idea what they'd say for Austin.  Homeslice maybe?  Via 313 has gained in popularity in recent years.

My favorite is Conan's.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 16, 2023, 09:53:28 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 15, 2023, 11:00:47 PM

I got the covid again.  Slight fever w/ cold symptoms.  Annoying.

Congrats!!

More immunity for you.

But yeah. It's annoying.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 16, 2023, 09:56:01 AM

Best pizza we've found down here is a place called Chicago Pizza. Go figure.

In Chicago? Way too many good ones to even try and list.

Never had a good pizza in Madison, and it was not due to a lack of trying. They just suck at it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2023, 10:27:46 AM

The pizza thing is highly subjective and individual of course.  I doubt many places with "bad" or even "indifferent" pizza stay around long unless they are chains.  My kids liked Papa Johns a lot, so I'd get one from there fairly often.  Of course, kids' tastes are often "different".  A lot of Cincy folks liked LaRosa's pizza, I thought it was mediocre at best, PJs was better, to me.  Of course, a lot of those folks like their chili a lot too ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 16, 2023, 10:50:35 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 16, 2023, 09:56:01 AM

Best pizza we've found down here is a place called Chicago Pizza. Go figure.

In Chicago? Way too many good ones to even try and list.

Never had a good pizza in Madison, and it was not due to a lack of trying. They just suck at it.

Hmm, I want to say something about this, but I honestly haven’t had real pizza there as a sober adult. Which is something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 16, 2023, 11:31:31 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 16, 2023, 10:27:46 AM

The pizza thing is highly subjective and individual of course.  I doubt many places with "bad" or even "indifferent" pizza stay around long unless they are chains.  

You overestimate the refinement of the masses' palates. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2023, 11:34:05 AM

Maybe, I figure folks with indifferent tastes go to some major chain.  I mentioned going to Grana to my wife and she's up for it, always is.  They have a pizza with thin slices of potatoes on it which she likes a lot, I think it's fine, I prefer the marg.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 16, 2023, 01:37:45 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 16, 2023, 09:37:03 AM

Man I have no idea what they'd say for Austin.  Homeslice maybe?  Via 313 has gained in popularity in recent years.

My favorite is Conan's.

0 for 3.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 16, 2023, 01:39:28 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 16, 2023, 10:27:46 AM

The pizza thing is highly subjective and individual of course.  I doubt many places with "bad" or even "indifferent" pizza stay around long unless they are chains.  My kids liked Papa Johns a lot, so I'd get one from there fairly often.  Of course, kids' tastes are often "different".  A lot of Cincy folks liked LaRosa's pizza, I thought it was mediocre at best, PJs was better, to me.  Of course, a lot of those folks like their chili a lot too ...

Neither of those is the listed one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 16, 2023, 01:59:26 PM

Columbus has a robust pizza page on Facebook. I joined the pizza page and the wing page and now my feed is 90 percent food. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 16, 2023, 02:54:44 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on July 16, 2023, 01:59:26 PM

Columbus has a robust pizza page on Facebook. I joined the pizza page and the wing page and now my feed is 90 percent food.

Your feed is food? Kind of the idea I thought,got any stuffed skunk weasel in there?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 16, 2023, 04:47:24 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on July 16, 2023, 02:54:44 PM

Your feed is food? Kind of the idea I thought,got any stuffed skunk weasel in there?

Well the I like Facebook better with more food. Stuffed Michiganders isn't on the menu until fall.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 16, 2023, 04:50:46 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on July 16, 2023, 01:59:26 PM

Columbus has a robust pizza page on Facebook. I joined the pizza page and the wing page and now my feed is 90 percent food.

Somewhere along the way, my fb feed became 80% "suggested for you" things.

As if it's actively trying to drive me away.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 16, 2023, 04:56:20 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 16, 2023, 04:50:46 PM

Somewhere along the way, my fb feed became 80% "suggested for you" things.

As if it's actively trying to drive me away.

Yeah, same. It's actually pretty annoying. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 16, 2023, 06:58:45 PM

Ihttps://twitter.com/AABonNBC/status/1680697267710308352?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1680697267710308352%7Ctwgr%5E078a0582635a0794e0d63d27c378f06fcf5a504f%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.elevenwarriors.com%2Fforum%2Fohio-state-football%2F2023%2F07%2F139605%2Fcarnell-tatehorrble-news


Ugggh. 🥵.  OSU Freshmen sensation ( WR)
Carnell Yates’s mom was killed in a drive by shooting in Chicago. Sucks. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 16, 2023, 07:31:31 PM

FFS RIP Mrs Yates

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2023, 07:27:52 AM

I will click on something obscure to see how FB responds to it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2023, 07:52:09 AM

I clicked on an ad for "EMF blocking hats" a while back, now that's what I see.  I just cover my head with aluminium foil and it works fine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 17, 2023, 07:55:01 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on July 16, 2023, 06:58:45 PM

Ugggh. 🥵.  OSU Freshmen sensation ( WR)
Carnell Yates’s mom was killed in a drive by shooting in Chicago. Sucks. 

I'm not joking when I talk about Chicago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 17, 2023, 05:41:55 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 16, 2023, 01:37:45 PM

0 for 3.

OK well I'm not going to continue fruitless guessing so if you wanna spill, feel free.  As far as I know nobody else on this site lives in Austin so I'm the only one likely to guess anyhow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 17, 2023, 06:34:57 PM

Supreme Court Clarence Thomas appears to have more than one Texan billionaire benefactor.

In addition to real estate developer Harlan Crow, Dallas Cowboys owner — and some say NFL shadow commissioner — Jerry Jones has also been connected with the conservative justice, the New York Times reported.

Thomas, according to reporting by Pro Publica, cruised the world together for nearly 30 years. But Thomas did not disclose rides aboard the Bombardier Global 5000 private jet or the 162-foot superyacht. He also didn’t disclose the trips to Bohemian Grove, the volcanic archipelago in Indonesia or the private resort in the Adirondacks. Thomas didn’t pay for them, either.

The justice has also flown on Jones’s private jet, received a Super Bowl ring from Jones, and sat in the owner’s box when the Cowboys — Thomas’ favorite football team — played the Washington Football Club, the Times reported.


Meanwhile, in addition to the Cowboys, Jones is also owner of investment and development firm Blue Star Land, which recently started construction on a 638,000-square-foot industrial center at a 120-acre site in Waxahachie.

Blue Star Land is best known for the Dallas Cowboys’ $1.5 billion Star development in Frisco but has been busy with investment and development projects across Dallas-Fort Worth. The company is entrenched north of Dallas in Prosper with the 500-acre Gates of Prosper project, which will be the largest mixed-use development in the suburb. The firm is also planning 500 apartments, retail and a park at another Prosper site.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 17, 2023, 07:35:46 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 17, 2023, 05:41:55 PM

OK well I'm not going to continue fruitless guessing so if you wanna spill, feel free.  As far as I know nobody else on this site lives in Austin so I'm the only one likely to guess anyhow.

The Pizza Press

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 17, 2023, 07:38:29 PM

Wouldn't it be nice if we had 7 people whose vote wasn't automatic?  Having very liberal and conservative judges on the SCOTUS is embarrassing.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 17, 2023, 07:42:18 PM

that would also be nice in the house and the senate and the white house

broken system

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2023, 06:10:28 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 17, 2023, 07:38:29 PM

Wouldn't it be nice if we had 7 people whose vote wasn't automatic?  Having very liberal and conservative judges on the SCOTUS is embarrassing. 

Why only 7?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on July 18, 2023, 06:52:08 AM

It would not be nice to have judges who legislate from the bench.  That's how we got to where we are now in large part on many of the divisive issues.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 18, 2023, 07:47:15 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on July 18, 2023, 06:52:08 AM

It would not be nice to have judges who legislate from the bench.  That's how we got to where we are now in large part on many of the divisive issues.

Yep. Certain circuits/districts are evil.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2023, 08:46:57 AM

The most common SCOTUS decision historically has been 9-0, with 5-4 being next.  The others are comparatively rare in recent decades.  The first SCOTUS had 6 Justices.  They nearly always were unanimous.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2023, 08:52:04 AM

My wife has talked me into another try and pilates (reformer) today.  I tried two classes a while back, she keeps nagging me to do it again.  I didn't "get it" last times.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 18, 2023, 10:29:18 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 18, 2023, 08:52:04 AM

My wife has talked me into another try and pilates (reformer) today.  I tried two classes a while back, she keeps nagging me to do it again.  I didn't "get it" last times.

It's just fancy dressing around doing exercises to strengthen your core. Which is a good thing. Most of us who have spent our lives in mostly sedentary office jobs have weak core muscles. 

If you just ignore the flimflam and focus on the workout, I think you'll be more likely to "get it". After years knowing you on this forum, I'm pretty sure that all that excess flimflam is what you're not "getting". So just ignore it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2023, 11:48:45 AM

I survived Pilates, no flim flam?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 18, 2023, 12:55:40 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/0QKC39C.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 18, 2023, 02:41:12 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 18, 2023, 06:10:28 AM

Why only 7?

Best of 7.
Why 9?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 18, 2023, 03:41:07 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 18, 2023, 02:46:19 PM

A 5 year-old came up with this, right?
"I know, let's plant a bajillion trees!"
.
I love how the republicans' reluctantly acknowledging they were wrong is just glossed over.  FFS

That's an over-generalization.

I would like to see others acknowledging being wrong too.


Russia - I want pencil neck to show me his proof.

Covid Lab - When will Mr. Science surface?

Laptop - Russian disinformation? Oops.

And so much more. 

Now the cocaine in the White House.


Biden Blames White House Cocaine On Black Guy Who Lived There Before | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/biden-blames-white-house-cocaine-on-black-guy-who-lived-there-before?utm_source=The Babylon Bee)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2023, 03:49:35 PM

This "reformer Pilates" doesn't have anything I'd call flim flam, they are private lessons, the teacher lady asks me questions and instructs me to do various and sundry, mostly stretching in odd ways (to me).  I'd done two of them previously, my wife says I have to stay at it to see a benefit.  I guess.

And yes, it would be nice if all Justices were not at all political, but they are.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 18, 2023, 03:52:33 PM

I think planting trees can help

I think like a 5 year old at times - some of my better thoughts

I don't think there's any single silver bullet

it's gonna take everything humans can throw at it to make even a small difference

as for being right or wrong???

I don't think many republicans deny greenhouse gases are or could be a cause of some climate change (even Longhorn320)

is it right or wrong to simply throw money at an issue w/o calculating the benefits, if any?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 18, 2023, 04:03:01 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 18, 2023, 03:52:33 PM

I think planting trees can help

I think like a 5 year old at times - some of my better thoughts

I don't think there's any single silver bullet

it's gonna take everything humans can throw at it to make even a small difference

as for being right or wrong???

I don't think many republicans deny greenhouse gases are or could be a cause of some climate change (even Longhorn320)

is it right or wrong to simply throw money at an issue w/o calculating the benefits, if any?

It is wrong.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2023, 04:08:25 PM

A cost:benefit analysis of the various measures to combat climate change would be laughably off the wall and incredible, literally.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 18, 2023, 04:25:02 PM

Nuke plants. Build them. Create good jobs. Produce clean energy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 18, 2023, 04:33:39 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 18, 2023, 03:49:35 PM

This "reformer Pilates" doesn't have anything I'd call flim flam, they are private lessons, the teacher lady asks me questions and instructs me to do various and sundry, mostly stretching in odd ways (to me).  I'd done two of them previously, my wife says I have to stay at it to see a benefit.  I guess.

By "flimflam" or "dressing up" I don't mean that pilates is somehow deceptive or to dismiss it. It's more that they might dress it up with more "spirituality" or "building a mind/body connection" or other sorts of things to make it seem like it is more than simply working out. When it's just working out. 

It's kinda like seeing "Jack's Bakery" and across the street is "Jacques' Boulangerie" and making you think you should go the latter because it seems "fancy". "Pilates" is a exotic-sounding word with and often the workouts will have extra stuff that's basically just dressing up a core workout to make it sound more fancy. 

It seems like it's good exercise and will do good things to build core strength. So I agree with your wife. Stay at it, and you'll see a benefit. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 18, 2023, 04:37:05 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 18, 2023, 03:52:33 PM

I think planting trees can help

I think like a 5 year old at times - some of my better thoughts

Planting trees doesn't offer significant help unless you take those trees, after they grow, chop them down, and somehow "sequester" them in a way such that they cannot decompose. Because as soon as they die and start to decompose, they release that CO2 right back into the air. 

So more trees and larger forests mean that you have more temporary CO2 storage, which is a good thing, but it's a band-aid. 

It's like saying you've got a 5-gallon bucket with a 100 mL/hour spout allowing the water to flow out, but you're filling it with 150 mL/hour of water. Eventually it's going to overflow. Replacing it with a 10-gallon bucket doesn't change the fact that it's going to overflow, it just shifts it out into the future a little bit. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2023, 05:08:57 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 18, 2023, 04:33:39 PM

By "flimflam" or "dressing up" I don't mean that pilates is somehow deceptive or to dismiss it. It's more that they might dress it up with more "spirituality" or "building a mind/body connection" or other sorts of things to make it seem like it is more than simply working out. When it's just working out.

There was none of this, maybe because my wife warned here.  She did talk about the need for different muscle groups to strengthen at similar rates, which I think it accurate.  Any flim flam of ths above and it would be the last time for sure.  It wasn't especially hard, but I was sweating a bit at times.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 18, 2023, 05:32:28 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 18, 2023, 04:25:02 PM

Nuke plants. Build them. Create good jobs. Produce clean energy.

if only...
the cost benefit analysis on nuke plants compared to other options might begin to sway some thinking

the folks that really want to help the planet and mankind (you know, the good democrats, the left) should be  pushing nukes

perhaps, the left just isn't that good, well meaning, helpful

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2023, 05:36:00 PM

"We" simply aren't going to go nuclear, not fast enough, not broadly enough, and not basically at all.  China and India and a few others may build a few, but they are building coal plants faster.  Nuclear is not a real option.  Even France briefly talked about shutting their down.  Germany did.

Two new power reactors in GA are coming on line and that's it, maybe some SMRs might happen in a decade or more.

I was in San Diego looking at two fleet carriers docked across from downtown pondering how many folks new four nuclear reactors were a mile away.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 18, 2023, 05:55:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 18, 2023, 05:36:00 PM

"We" simply aren't going to go nuclear, not fast enough, not broadly enough, and not basically at all.  

well perhaps when things get bleak, in say 40-50 years and the climate is really causing problems and the other GREEN options have proven futile, maybe then

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 18, 2023, 06:19:37 PM

There are dozens of reactors that are unfinished across the country.  I don't know how many of those could just be continued, but if they were and the benefits were realized, it would likely get the general population to buy in.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2023, 06:26:43 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 18, 2023, 06:19:37 PM

There are dozens of reactors that are unfinished across the country.  I don't know how many of those could just be continued, but if they were and the benefits were realized, it would likely get the general population to buy in.

Dozens?  Do you believe this?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 18, 2023, 06:27:54 PM

the general population would buy in if the politicians and their money grubbing donors would actually give a damn to do the right thing and let the masses know that nukes are the only solution

by politicians, I mean both parties

let the really worried alarmists that are super gluing their hands to airport runways that nukes are the only feasible option

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 18, 2023, 06:33:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 18, 2023, 06:26:43 PM

Dozens?  Do you believe this?

There were like a hundred back in the mid-80s, but I assume some of those have simply been scrapped.  Perhaps it's most, but I think bringing one online that was already begun (site selected, cleared, leveled, permits, etc) would make more sense than something brand new.
But yes, there are dozens...or were dozens.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2023, 06:44:10 PM

There were many cancelled but very few ever started construction, one was converted to coal

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 18, 2023, 06:52:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 18, 2023, 06:44:10 PM

There were many cancelled but very few ever started construction, one was converted to coal

Here's a map of 40 of them.  There's 17 that are 26%+ constructed, whatever that means.  I assume some actual construction has been done with those, and there's 23 0-25%, of which I'd say some have actual construction done (but who knows?).
The point is that there are sites out there to continue on from if we wanted to.  Many.  

(https://i.imgur.com/V8aWPF3.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2023, 06:56:16 PM

Zimmer was converted to coal, the rest are dead and gone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 18, 2023, 07:52:17 PM

no chance to bring one back after it's been shut down?  Even if temporarily until it could be replaced 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2023, 08:06:02 PM

Nope

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 18, 2023, 08:31:42 PM

well, that seems like a poor design

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 18, 2023, 09:18:20 PM

You could, it would just take like 30 years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Hawkinole on July 18, 2023, 11:44:26 PM

Drunkest cities in the U.S.:

• Green Bay, Wisconsin
• Eau Claire, Wisconsin
• Appleton, Wisconsin
• Madison, Wisconsin
• Fargo, North Dakota
• Oshkosh, Wisconsin
• Missoula, Montana
• Grand Forks, North Dakota
• Wausau, Wisconsin
• La Crosse, Wisconsin

One of the United States' states is working on a monopoly. But, North Dakota is competing hard with fewer cities. One State Absolutely Dominates The List Of The Drunkest Cities In America (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/tripideas/one-state-absolutely-dominates-the-list-of-the-drunkest-cities-in-america/ar-AA1e24BS?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=579838ba20ff4263845be69aefda3894&ei=16)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2023, 07:43:24 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 18, 2023, 08:31:42 PM

well, that seems like a poor design

Once a facility is decommissioned, it's not longer licensed of course, and that can be for good reason, metal fatigue, old controls, obsolescence, radiation, etc.  It's worse than useless at that point.  You're much better off green fielding a new one.

The SMRs MIGHT be a thing in a decade, to some extent, but I'd guess it'll be slower in coming than that, a few of them dotted around doing relatively little.  This problem would require a comprehensive plan, with price tag, not just throwing money out there at EVs and wind and solar.  It has  been politicized of course and now everything is a political battle with posturing and gotcha questions and posing for media.  In 2020 or so, one of the agencies put out the outline of what would have to happen to "lick climate change" by 2050 and it was very clear it was impracticable.  One thing was to shutter EVERY coal power plant globally by 2020.  Sure, you can say that has to happen, but then note that it won't happen, at all, and more will be built.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2023, 08:06:18 AM

Maybe some hope. Maybe.

Donalds Introduces 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th And 20th Bills Of 2023-24 Nuclear Energy Package

 

WASHINGTON - Today, Congressman Byron Donalds (R-FL) introduced the 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th and 20th bills of the 2023-24 Donalds Nuclear Energy Package. These bills include H.R. 4674 – The Advanced Nuclear Feasibility Act, H.R. 4675 – The Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards (ACRS) Reform Act, H.R. 4676 – The Nuclear Red Tape Reduction Act, H.R. 4677 – The Leverage Obligated Appropriations for Advanced Nuclear (LOAN) Act, and H.R. 4678 – The Provide Logistical Airport Aid Via Advanced Nuclear Energy (PLANE) Act. Congressman Donalds released the following statement:

 

"Throughout the first seven months of the 118th Congress, I have worked hard to elevate the role of nuclear within the arsenal of American energy. Not only is nuclear the cleanest and greenest source of energy at our country's disposal, but it is an invaluable asset that we must utilize in order to efficiently power the future of our nation. My now twenty-bill and growing, nuclear energy legislative package promotes this critical and under-utilized solution to America's current and future energy demands.

 

"My five most recent bills seek to facilitate the licensing and deployment of advanced nuclear reactors, reduce licensing costs, slash unnecessary bureaucratic red tape, and establish regulatory clarity. They also include provisions to bolster efficiency and effectiveness within the nuclear energy industry by consolidating and streamlining various antiquated processes. Most importantly, I offered a proposal to encourage airports to consider using microreactors for back-up power in the case of natural disasters. As Southwest Florida's representative in the halls of Congress, the constant threat of hurricanes is an all-too-real threat for our community. Nuclear energy provides practical and commonsense solutions for our community, our state, and our nation. I look forward to further exploring the benefits of this technology."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2023, 08:14:14 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2023, 08:06:18 AM

Maybe some hope. Maybe.

. I look forward to further exploring the benefits of this technology."

Maybe, but exploring the benefits isn't what's really needed (I know some parts of his bills have more teeth, but would any Democrat vote for them?)

I noted years back that a part of a decent plan would be to replace coal with nuclear.  It would be expensive, need loan guarantees, and everything in the above bills, but it would take decades to do it.  Private companies are going to be loathe to dip their toes in the waters after seeing what happened with Vogtle 3/4.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2023, 08:41:35 AM

Byron Donalds needs to be MUCH more dramatic and plead to folks that this is the ONLY way to save the planet!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2023, 08:46:04 AM

He could be hyperdramatic, but all of this is entirely political at this point.  Your average liberal thinks nuclear is bad, I've chatted with some of them, they aren't entirely sure why (waste comes up often), but it's bad, so it has to be wind and solar.  If you note the issues with W&S they claim batteries will solve that.

My main point continues to be "we" simply aren't doing much more than papering all this over because there is no realistic plan because one cannot be formulated with any practality or doability.  The numbers don't lie.

We're engaged in a massive fraudulent kidding ourselves exercise.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2023, 09:21:25 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 19, 2023, 08:41:35 AM

Byron Donalds needs to be MUCH more dramatic and plead to folks that this is the ONLY way to save the planet!

He's not that kind of guy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2023, 09:22:47 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 19, 2023, 08:46:04 AM

We're engaged in a massive fraudulent kidding ourselves exercise.

Unfortunately, yes. And we all know who benefits from all the BS.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2023, 09:24:53 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 19, 2023, 08:14:14 AM

Maybe, but exploring the benefits isn't what's really needed (I know some parts of his bills have more teeth, but would any Democrat vote for them?)

I noted years back that a part of a decent plan would be to replace coal with nuclear.  It would be expensive, need loan guarantees, and everything in the above bills, but it would take decades to do it.  Private companies are going to be loathe to dip their toes in the waters after seeing what happened with Vogtle 3/4.

Only need two in the Senate, and they are probably there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 19, 2023, 09:32:45 AM

It's kind of like immigration. Tough to combat people's imaginations. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2023, 09:35:44 AM

I don't think nuclear power is like immigration at all.

We've proven that nuclear power works.

We've proven that we suck at immigration.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2023, 09:40:10 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2023, 09:24:53 AM

Only need two in the Senate, and they are probably there.

I think you'd face a filibuster in the Senate, and a probable Presidential veto anyway.  It's optics.  Immigration is about optics as well.  Both "sides" have entrenched themselves in optics for the most part.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2023, 09:41:08 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2023, 09:21:25 AM

He's not that kind of guy.

the left seems to have tons of those guys

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2023, 09:43:52 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2023, 09:35:44 AM

I don't think nuclear power is like immigration at all.

We've proven that nuclear power works.

We've proven that we suck at immigration.

nukes just have the fear of 3-mile and chernobyl
I think much of that can be over come with some logic and the larger fear of global warming

lesser of two evils

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2023, 09:45:32 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 19, 2023, 09:41:08 AM

the left seems to have tons of those guys

Notice the fear mongers and shriller Congressmen and women don't seem to get much legislation passed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2023, 09:46:26 AM

I nearly deleted that political post

wasn't needed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2023, 09:48:36 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 19, 2023, 09:43:52 AM

nukes just have the fear of 3-mile and chernobyl
I think much of that can be over come with some logic and the larger fear of global warming

I really don't think "logic" has much of a role in any of this kind of thing.  I've chatted with some anti-nuclear types, some with a technical background, they simply don't want it, end of story, no "logic" or fact pattern seems able to change that.  Democrats by and large would not support any significant nuclear effort, they won't, the optics preclude that.  They have largely sold their base that W&S is the only thing we need.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2023, 09:59:56 AM

and when W&S fail miserably ........ just throw more money after bad money???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 19, 2023, 10:05:51 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 19, 2023, 09:59:56 AM

and when W&S fail miserably ........ just throw more money after bad money???

Yeah, when it's OPM, who really cares how much you're throwing around? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2023, 10:05:59 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 19, 2023, 09:59:56 AM

and when W&S fail miserably ........ just throw more money after bad money???

The won't fail miserably, I suspect.  The various power companies will do "stuff" that makes sense to them.  Some of it will fail miserably I suspect, in time.  Some areas COULD get into a situation where brownouts become more common.  Then folks will react accordingly.

But the problems will be pretty easy to foresee and will happen on a smaller scale and others will avoid them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2023, 10:27:27 AM

Quote from: SFBadger96 on November 03, 2020, 01:11:16 PM

I saw an interesting opinion piece the other day that said that when asked in a professional survey, only 3-4% of Democrats or Republicans believe that violence is appropriate if the "other side" wins, but that about 48-50% think that the other side thinks it is.

As Badge is fond of saying, the reality is that we are a much more moderate and unified nation than the agitators would have you believe, but the agitation has led to a great deal more mistrust of "the other side" than we have previously had. This is an interesting conundrum that I truly hope that our leaders--on both sides--will work to remedy.

I know that in politics--as in any competition--the actors play to win, but unlike other competitions, the overarching point of politics isn't supposed to be winning, it's supposed to be good governance. If that's not what the politician is in it for, then they shouldn't be in it. Alas, we all have different opinions about who that last statement should apply to, and unquestionably, power is a corrupting influence.

This is almost 3 years old now, and it's still true.

Maybe "we" could throw agitators in prison.

The leaders on both sides are not working to remedy anything.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2023, 10:30:39 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 19, 2023, 10:05:59 AM

The won't fail miserably, I suspect.  The various power companies will do "stuff" that makes sense to them.  Some of it will fail miserably I suspect, in time.  Some areas COULD get into a situation where brownouts become more common.  Then folks will react accordingly.

But the problems will be pretty easy to foresee and will happen on a smaller scale and others will avoid them.

it will fail miserably at the goal of shutting down coal plants by 2050 and all other goals of the Paris Agreement

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 19, 2023, 10:46:47 AM

Does anyone else get really annoyed by people who include "<time zone> standard time" when scheduling things when we're on DST? 

I just had it happen with a customer, so I couldn't snarkily correct them. But they were wanting to schedule a meeting for 4:30 EST in a little over a week. 

So... Will it show up on my calendar at 1:30 PDT? I think it will. But 4:30 EST will be 12:30 PDT. 

I'm pretty sure they asked about 4:30 EST because they don't realize what that S means and that we're not currently on it. 

I just replied and said "4:30 Eastern will work for me". 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2023, 10:53:41 AM

it annoys the shit outta me when I'm late or early for the meeting

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2023, 11:01:25 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 19, 2023, 10:46:47 AM

Does anyone else get really annoyed by people who include "<time zone> standard time" when scheduling things when we're on DST?

I just had it happen with a customer, so I couldn't snarkily correct them. But they were wanting to schedule a meeting for 4:30 EST in a little over a week.

So... Will it show up on my calendar at 1:30 PDT? I think it will. But 4:30 EST will be 12:30 PDT.

I'm pretty sure they asked about 4:30 EST because they don't realize what that S means and that we're not currently on it.

I just replied and said "4:30 Eastern will work for me".

Yes, it's annoying. I'm the only worker in the Eastern time zone. Everyone else is Central.

When Teams meetings are scheduled, it's almost always before their lunch break.

What about my f'ing lunch break?

Oh, and don't call me with an "emergency" at 5PM central, unless you want me to call you back at 7AM Eastern.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 19, 2023, 11:03:54 AM

I usually just say "Central Time" or "Eastern Time" and omit the "Daylight" or "Standard" unless specifically talking to someone in one of those states or districts that doesn't change for Daylight Savings.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2023, 11:42:57 AM

Could not resist.

Secret Service 'Unable To Identify A Suspect' In Case Of Ronald McDonald's Missing Hamburgers | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/secret-service-unable-to-identify-a-suspect-in-case-of-ronald-mcdonalds-missing-hamburgers?utm_source=The Babylon Bee)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2023, 12:06:06 PM

Sure, the "war on CO2" will fail, and we'll be constantly reminded of how we are failing year after year after year, and yet no one will propose a substantive plan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2023, 12:41:10 PM

Florida’s Chief Financial Officer, Jimmy Patronis, is displeased with a major insurance provider leaving the state in the middle of hurricane season. Farmers Insurance recently announced that it would discontinue its coverage for cars and homes across the state in order to “effectively manage risk exposure.”

But the state’s CFO blamed “wokeness” for the insurer’s retreat.

"Farmers has become the Bud Light of the insurance industry," Patronis told Fox late last week. "They've been prescribing to the United Nations proclamations and edicts that they've been pushing out."

The CFO has threatened fines and an investigation. But there’s evidence to suggest the ongoing insurance retreat isn’t exactly limited to Florida or Farmers Insurance.


Sunsetting insurance in the Sunshine State
On Monday, July 10, the Florida Office of Insurance Regulation said it received a “market reduction notice” from Farmers Insurance Group. Details were not provided because the information is considered trade secrets based on Florida insurance statutes.

However, this wasn’t the first sign of retreat from Farmers. A month ago, the company announced it would stop issuing new homeowners’ policies in the sunshine state. “This business decision was necessary to effectively manage risk exposure,” said the group’s director of public relations, Trevor Chapman in a statement issued about the latest move to cut back.

The move is expected to impact 2% of Floridian homeowners — or about 100,000 people.

Regulators such as Florida Insurance Commissioner Michael Yaworsky said they were “disappointed by the hastiness in this decision.” Meanwhile, CFO Jimmy Patronis indicated that the dispute could be ramped up. “My office is going to explore every avenue possible for holding them accountable,” he said in a Tweet.

In a press release, Patronis indicated that “woke” political ideology could have played a part in Farmer’s latest move.

“While they’re bad at helping people, they’re good at virtue signaling…I sincerely believe that with today’s actions, Farmers Insurance is well on its way to becoming the Bud Light of insurance.”

However, Farmers isn’t just retreating from Florida. It’s also cutting back operations in (famously woke) California. At the same time, other insurance giants cut back too. This all indicates that there’s a more significant trend playing out.


Climate change
Three major home insurers left Florida before Farmers Insurance — including AAA which said it would no longer renew some policies in the state. “Unfortunately, Florida’s insurance market has become challenging in recent years,” AAA said in a statement. “Last year’s catastrophic hurricane season contributed to an unprecedented rise in reinsurance rates, making it more costly for insurance companies to operate.”

Florida has always been prone to hurricanes but the severity of weather-related issues has ramped up in recent years. Record-breaking temperatures in the Atlantic Ocean coupled with an El Nino event are expected to make this hurricane season particularly troublesome.

Climate risk is reflected in the premiums homeowners pay. Floridians pay an average of $6,000 to insure their home, compared to the national average of $1,700. Environmental risk has also pushed State Farm and Allstate out of the insurance market in disaster-prone California.

The entire industry could be on the verge of a “crisis of confidence around the ability to predict loss,” according to Aon PLC President Eric Andersen. Weather patterns are becoming less predictable and the insurance industry is based on predictability.

“Just as the U.S. economy was overexposed to mortgage risk in 2008, the economy today is over-exposed to climate risk,” Andersen told a Senate committee during a recent hearing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2023, 01:42:30 PM

We will be moving to the minimum to satisfy the mortgage credit union. We will self-insure hurricane crap moving forward.

Instead of paying $6.5K we will pay $1.2K.

Farmer's and many others have pulled out of California too. Wildfires. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2023, 01:43:04 PM

Very happy to live in such a terrible place.

CNBC declares Florida, Texas among 'worst' in nation to live and work, despite huge migration numbers (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cnbc-declares-florida-texas-among-worst-in-nation-to-live-and-work-despite-huge-migration-numbers/ar-AA1e4kYL?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=80ad57ba271c464c9eaae5590f3318b8&ei=9)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2023, 01:44:34 PM

CNBC

I'm sure they used an "expert"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2023, 01:50:58 PM

Of course.

It's just a hit piece on Abbott and Ron.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on July 19, 2023, 02:11:38 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 19, 2023, 10:46:47 AM

Does anyone else get really annoyed by people who include "<time zone> standard time" when scheduling things when we're on DST?

I just had it happen with a customer, so I couldn't snarkily correct them. But they were wanting to schedule a meeting for 4:30 EST in a little over a week.

So... Will it show up on my calendar at 1:30 PDT? I think it will. But 4:30 EST will be 12:30 PDT.

I'm pretty sure they asked about 4:30 EST because they don't realize what that S means and that we're not currently on it.

I just replied and said "4:30 Eastern will work for me".

I always us mSt because I am always on MST.  It the rest of the crazy country who can still to one time all year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2023, 02:54:13 PM

Fl keeps talking about staying on daylight. I support this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 19, 2023, 02:58:57 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2023, 01:50:58 PM

Of course.

It's just a hit piece on Abbott and Ron.

Yup.  They weighted "Cost of Living" at 2% and  "Life Health and Inclusion" at 14%.  Pretty obvious to see they had a desired outcome and then created and weighted the item categories in a way to achieve it.

That's not to say that Texas doesn't have some serious issues, because it most certainly does.  But this "study" doesn't really illuminate anything other than the publication's agenda. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 19, 2023, 02:59:43 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2023, 02:54:13 PM

Fl keeps talking about staying on daylight. I support this.

I'd love it.  My dad has always referred to Standard Time as "Daylight Wastings Time."  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 19, 2023, 03:08:59 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 19, 2023, 02:54:13 PM

Fl keeps talking about staying on daylight. I support this.

Yeah, I'd prefer it. I like to have the daylight extend later in the afternoon rather than earlier in the morning. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2023, 03:10:51 PM

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/07/14/these-are-americas-10-best-states-to-live-and-work-in.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 19, 2023, 04:06:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 19, 2023, 03:10:51 PM

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/07/14/these-are-americas-10-best-states-to-live-and-work-in.html

😂😂😂.  Places I wouldn’t even travel too 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2023, 04:10:37 PM

I would, and I have.  Parts of New Jersey are pretty nice, parts of course are not.  Vermont is fine.  Washington and Oregon have some good wine country and mountains.  I do agree the criteria appear to be, um, selected and weighted so as to produce that output.

Fortunately, this is another kind of ranking no one really pays any attention to.  I use CNBC pretty often just to get stock quotes without logging on, I don't view them as particularly biased politically.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 19, 2023, 04:14:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 19, 2023, 04:10:37 PM

I would, and I have.  Parts of New Jersey are pretty nice, parts of course are not.  Vermont is fine.  Washington and Oregon have some good wine country and mountains.  I do agree the criteria appear to be, um, selected and weighted so as to produce that output.

Fortunately, this is another kind of ranking no one really pays any attention to.  I use CNBC pretty often just to get stock quotes without logging on, I don't view them as particularly biased politically.

There are beautiful parts to pretty much every state.  

But between high taxes, not recognizing crime as illegal, and numerous other crazy policies- no thanks       

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2023, 04:21:54 PM

Usually, when visiting, local politics don't  have a lot to do with one's visitation.  Now, if crime is very high, you probably won't be prone to visiting.  I'd have no problem visiting any of the US states, I would likely avoid certain cities and definitely certain areas.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 19, 2023, 04:23:52 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 19, 2023, 04:21:54 PM

Usually, when visiting, local politics don't  have a lot to do with one's visitation.  Now, if crime is very high, you probably won't be prone to visiting.  I'd have no problem visiting any of the US states, I would likely avoid certain cities and definitely certain areas.

I have been to all of them.  ( except Alaska). 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2023, 04:25:05 PM

I've been to 49 states (not ND).  There are several I enjoy VISITING but would not live there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2023, 04:25:55 PM

I've always avoided big cities

I'll avoid them much more going forward

My daughter is in Minneapolis, brother in the Dallas/Ft Worth metro
I visited the eastern outskirt of Denver a few months back
Visited San Diego waterfront a few months back

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on July 20, 2023, 07:40:17 AM

China is cutting recently planted trees to prepare for war.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/clue-china-preparing-war-230138303.html. (https://www.yahoo.com/news/clue-china-preparing-war-230138303.html.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2023, 08:36:33 AM

CALCULATOR EDGE is a FREE calculator website for Engineers and Students worldwide. It features more than a few hundred calculators for solving complex equations and formulas in Electrical, Mechanical, Chemical, Electronics, Civil, Metallurgy, Oil & Gas, Optical, Plastics, Ceramics, Physics, Maths many more to come.

http://www.calculatoredge.com/ (http://www.calculatoredge.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 08:47:52 AM

Home | Engineering.com (https://www.engineering.com/home)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 09:32:48 AM

Report: Four Florida markets named as 'at risk for home price decline' (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/report-four-florida-markets-named-as-at-risk-for-home-price-decline/ar-AA1dXR3q?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=8c423a53d1ad4f0d87824343900d9aec&ei=30)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 09:38:49 AM

This is interesting. I'd say give it a go and see what happens. As we've discussed, college isn't for everyone anymore.

As recruitment flounders, this small change to GI Bill would make kids 'flock to the military,' teen says | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/recruitment-flounders-small-change-gi-bill-make-kids-flock-military-teen-says)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 10:05:32 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 09:32:48 AM

Report: Four Florida markets named as 'at risk for home price decline' (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/report-four-florida-markets-named-as-at-risk-for-home-price-decline/ar-AA1dXR3q?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=8c423a53d1ad4f0d87824343900d9aec&ei=30)

I'd say EVERY market is at risk.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 20, 2023, 11:02:28 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 10:05:32 AM

I'd say EVERY market is at risk.

Good. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 11:38:39 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 20, 2023, 11:02:28 AM

Good.

(https://i.imgur.com/gZqzfV5.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 11:46:30 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 10:05:32 AM

I'd say EVERY market is at risk.

Some more than others. I'm not at all concerned with the market around here.

Prices are going down in Northport and Cape Coral due to the national builders coming in with less expensive (and smaller) product, and more variety to include townhomes and condos rather than just single-family.

This is a good thing for people wanting to move here (to the tune of 1,600 per day, still).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 11:59:49 AM

Yeah, single family here remains tight on inventory, and demand is high.  The metro is adding about 80,000 new folks a year, I don't really know where they are going except further out.  My sports lessons are in Cumming to our north 37 miles, it used to be a small country town, now it has a Costco.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on July 20, 2023, 12:04:10 PM

Inventory is still very tight here in MSP, especially at the lower sizes and price points. 

There also seemed like there was a lot of resistance at $500K. Houses that were actually worth $500K sold at the price, but there were a bunch of pumped-up 350s or 400s that sat on the market for a long, long time. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 12:14:58 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on July 20, 2023, 12:04:10 PM

Inventory is still very tight here in MSP, especially at the lower sizes and price points.

There also seemed like there was a lot of resistance at $500K. Houses that were actually worth $500K sold at the price, but there were a bunch of pumped-up 350s or 400s that sat on the market for a long, long time.

I think we're seeing that everywhere, including around here.

Everyone thinks their home is worth more than it is. It's really only worth what people are willing to pay. Easily forgotten rule in buying/selling.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2023, 12:16:37 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 11:38:39 AM

[img width=500 height=355.98]https://i.imgur.com/gZqzfV5.png[/img]

folks moving from Phoenix to Chicago?
Good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 12:29:49 PM

I fear lending appraisers are going along for the ride ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 12:44:38 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 20, 2023, 12:16:37 PM

folks moving from Phoenix to Chicago?
Good

Nah. Texas is moving them to Chicago. Heh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 12:45:17 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 12:29:49 PM

I fear lending appraisers are going along for the ride ...

I hear it's quite the opposite. The lenders are watching them with a microscope.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 12:50:42 PM

My friend here who is an RE told me a few scary stories, houses getting 20 offers 20% over ask, and he warns the seller it shouldn't appraise that high, and then it does.  So, some fairly modest 60 year old ranch with 1400 sf goes on the market for $300 K and gets bid up and then appraised OK.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 20, 2023, 12:53:43 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 12:45:17 PM

I hear it's quite the opposite. The lenders are watching them with a microscope.

This.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 20, 2023, 12:55:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 12:50:42 PM

My friend here who is an RE told me a few scary stories, houses getting 20 offers 20% over ask, and he warns the seller it shouldn't appraise that high, and then it does.  So, some fairly modest 60 year old ranch with 1400 sf goes on the market for $300 K and gets bid up and then appraised OK.

Well a house is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. So- 20 offers over asking price supports a higher appraisal.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 01:07:49 PM

Maybe so, but it's obviously a risky proposition.  The market could turn south in a hurry, and then spiral into a real mess.  Again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 01:08:26 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on July 20, 2023, 12:55:32 PM

Well a house is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. So- 20 offers over asking price supports a higher appraisal. 

Exactly.

And we're not seeing those kinds of bidding wars as much we were two years ago. Still some, but not as nuts.

How are things on your side, and to your South? Still nuts?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2023, 01:09:42 PM

20 offers is a good number to suggest the market is OK for at least a few months

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 01:10:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 01:07:49 PM

Maybe so, but it's obviously a risky proposition.  The market could turn south in a hurry, and then spiral into a real mess.  Again.

There is no subprime lending to cause another 2008.

Mass layoffs and a deep recession would cause big problems.

There is no basis for thinking this will happen at this time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 01:11:48 PM

I think these are "forced buyers", they are in a situation where they need a house soon, so they have to outbid everyone else, with very tight inventory.  It's not in my mind a rational market.

Will housing prices go down Atlanta | 11alive.com (https://www.11alive.com/article/news/regional/will-housing-prices-go-down-atlanta-georgia-south-region/85-8e5e7dfe-fb00-46cf-8488-ad369595a688)

Prices may be cooling off a bit now.

[color=var(--global-color-action)]realtor.com has the market essentially flat[/color] (https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Atlanta_GA/overview) from a year ago - with a median listing price of $439,945 and a median sale of $435,000 in May 2022 versus $439,000 and $438,000 in May 2023.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 01:15:40 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on July 20, 2023, 12:04:10 PM

Inventory is still very tight here in MSP, especially at the lower sizes and price points.

There also seemed like there was a lot of resistance at $500K. Houses that were actually worth $500K sold at the price, but there were a bunch of pumped-up 350s or 400s that sat on the market for a long, long time.

Here in Mission Viejo, I have a search set up on Zillow.

Constraints are SFH, 3 bd / 2 ba or more, hide 55+ communities, max $1M list price. 

In a town of almost 100,000 people, there is only (1) property listed w/in that criteria. $995K. And it's only 1600 sf. 

(There's actually one more, at $899K, but when you look at the pictures it's not a SFH). 

Don't know what it will take to get a positive inventory shock at this point. It's been like this for a VERY long time. Nothing for sale. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 20, 2023, 01:18:20 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 01:10:35 PM

There is no subprime lending to cause another 2008.

Mass layoffs and a deep recession would cause big problems.

There is no basis for thinking this will happen at this time.

All correct.  
if we have a housing problem, it will not be anything like the one in the mid-2000s which was caused by unstable lending practices, speculation, and predatory lending   
None of those things exist now and in fact, I would say quite the opposite. The big problem we have now is lack of inventory and high interest rates so those who would sell are not willing to, leaving those who want to buy out in the cold.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 20, 2023, 01:19:44 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 01:08:26 PM

Exactly.

And we're not seeing those kinds of bidding wars as much we were two years ago. Still some, but not as nuts.

How are things on your side, and to your South? Still nuts?

Price is stabilized for a while, but are now inching back up again mostly due to lack of inventory versus high demand. 40% of the buyers are cash buyers. Most of those are moving here from other states.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 01:32:40 PM

Four things to know about the rapidly changing housing market | The Hill (https://thehill.com/business/4101601-four-things-to-know-about-the-rapidly-changing-housing-market/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 01:36:57 PM

Our building of 120 units has one on the market right now, which is about typical.  It's 1,000 sf listed for $470 K, it looks reasonably updated on the 14th floor.

The condo market of course is softer than single family.  A new condo building near us opened about a year ago with 1 bdr units starting at $865, the sign now says "$1.2 and up".  It's a high end building, SubZero and Wolff all that stuff.

I of course am a bit slow in catching up with these trends.  We have zero desire to move anywhere else.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on July 20, 2023, 01:44:01 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 12:50:42 PM

My friend here who is an RE told me a few scary stories, houses getting 20 offers 20% over ask, and he warns the seller it shouldn't appraise that high, and then it does.  So, some fairly modest 60 year old ranch with 1400 sf goes on the market for $300 K and gets bid up and then appraised OK.

Our old house was similar to this. 14 bids, all of which were over what we thought was an aggressive posting price. We didn't take the high bid because they were 20 percent over post with no appraisal gap coverage. As it was, we were both worried sick that our house wouldn't appraise at the sale price.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 01:48:53 PM

Rising prices, mortgage rates push monthly payments to all-time high: report | The Hill (https://thehill.com/business/4107748-rising-prices-mortgage-rates-push-monthly-payments-to-all-time-high-report/)

A problem could arise when this changes, if it does, "trees don't grow to the sky" etc.  If we hit an economic downturn and unemployment goes up, obviously some won't be able to cover their payments.  IF lending agencies get stuck with foreclosures, suddenly demand has dropped just as new supply appears, and prices start to drop, perhaps spiraling down rather quickly.  The Fed as usual reacts slowly.  Folks find their loans exceed any valuation of their property, some with seconds or credit lines secured by the house could end up getting hammered as well.  Then it all piles on top of each other and we have a bad drop.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 01:52:52 PM

Or, you know, if such a high % of the population can't afford to buy or rent a place to live start burning shit down.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 02:00:52 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 01:52:52 PM

Or, you know, if such a high % of the population can't afford to buy or rent a place to live start burning shit down.

(https://i.imgur.com/dLidv0E.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 02:02:05 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 01:52:52 PM

Or, you know, if such a high % of the population can't afford to buy or rent a place to live start burning shit down.

What percentage would that be?  What is it today?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:04:35 PM

Well the people that lack the ability or willingness to work the problem with a job or multiple jobs may lay around surviving and bicker amongst themselves.  That's your normal homeless population growing as it is now.
But once you have industrious, motivated people unable to secure housing......they're not going to simply nap all day and bicker among themselves.  People with jobs are priced out of even renting crap apartments and that will not stand for long.
.
50 years ago we had a middle class with 1 income and 2 kids per family.....that's a sick joke today, thanks to the 1%ers getting better and better at extracting as much money as possible from their worker bees.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:07:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 02:02:05 PM

What percentage would that be?  What is it today?

I don't know.
Not much higher than it is today.
.
Let's find out together, in real time!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 02:11:20 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 01:52:52 PM

Or, you know, if such a high % of the population can't afford to buy or rent a place to live start burning shit down.

Easy there, Comrade. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:12:20 PM

Is it not clear to everyone here that the greed of the few is going to make Karl Marx correct?
.
I don't want it, but what other result is there?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 02:19:09 PM

Stopping the flow of Chinese drugs through Mexico would help.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 02:19:54 PM

Our economic system is based on greed.  So is every other economic system.  It's a human trait,  and it isn't worse today than in the past.

But if we don't know the current percentage who can't afford an apt, and we don't know what it would be to cause folks to burn things down, we don't know enough to discuss that possibility.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 02:23:51 PM

Sheltered homelessness declined over the past decade but unsheltered homelessness rose.
The Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) (https://www.huduser.gov/portal/sites/default/files/pdf/2022-AHAR-Part-1.pdf) counted around 582,000 Americans experiencing homelessness in 2022. That’s about 18 per 10,000 people in the US, up about 2,000 people from 2020.


How many homeless people are in the US? What does the data miss? - USAFacts (https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-homeless-people-are-in-the-us-what-does-the-data-miss/#:~:text=The Department of Housing and,about 2%2C000 people from 2020.)


Not much of a trend at this point.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 02:23:56 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:12:20 PM

Is it not clear to everyone here that the greed of the few is going to make Karl Marx correct?
.
I don't want it, but what other result is there?

As it relates to the housing market, the greed of who? 

It's not Warren Buffett, or Elon Musk, or Jeff Bezos that are making housing expensive. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:27:17 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 02:23:56 PM

As it relates to the housing market, the greed of who?

It's not Warren Buffett, or Elon Musk, or Jeff Bezos that are making housing expensive.

Uh, you're right.....1%ers make $400K+, no need to cite those guys.  
No private entity builds new affordable housing, which is what is needed.  Every new property is luxury housing.
Any affordable housing is handcuffed to the government.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:28:01 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 02:23:51 PM

Sheltered homelessness declined over the past decade but unsheltered homelessness rose.
The Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) (https://www.huduser.gov/portal/sites/default/files/pdf/2022-AHAR-Part-1.pdf) counted around 582,000 Americans experiencing homelessness in 2022. That’s about 18 per 10,000 people in the US, up about 2,000 people from 2020.


How many homeless people are in the US? What does the data miss? - USAFacts (https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-homeless-people-are-in-the-us-what-does-the-data-miss/#:~:text=The Department of Housing and,about 2%2C000 people from 2020.)


Not much of a trend at this point.

Yeah, it's fine.  This is all fine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 02:31:49 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:27:17 PM

Uh, you're right.....1%ers make $400K+, no need to cite those guys. 
No private entity builds new affordable housing, which is what is needed.  Every new property is luxury housing.
Any affordable housing is handcuffed to the government. 

Now you're getting into what I do for a living.

You're not correct. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 02:32:51 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:27:17 PM

Uh, you're right.....1%ers make $400K+, no need to cite those guys. 
No private entity builds new affordable housing, which is what is needed.  Every new property is luxury housing.
Any affordable housing is handcuffed to the government. 

1%ers aren't buying more than 1% of the housing, are they?

And everyone's for affordable housing. As long as it's "somewhere else". Try to zone existing spaces to allow more density, and (non-1%er) residents will fight tooth and nail.

https://www.npr.org/2023/02/11/1155094278/states-cities-end-single-family-zoning-housing-affordable

There are reasons we don't have enough housing, nor enough affordable housing. But I think you're pointing in the wrong direction.

(Edit: Actually I'm sure the 1%ers are buying more than 1% of the housing, given investing in rental properties, second/vacation homes, and the fact that only 65% of the US own homes. So 1%ers would be actually higher than 1% of property owners.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 02:35:06 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 02:32:51 PM

1%ers aren't buying more than 1% of the housing, are they?

And everyone's for affordable housing. As long as it's "somewhere else". Try to zone existing spaces to allow more density, and (non-1%er) residents will fight tooth and nail.

https://www.npr.org/2023/02/11/1155094278/states-cities-end-single-family-zoning-housing-affordable

There are reasons we don't have enough housing, nor enough affordable housing. But I think you're pointing in the wrong direction.

Exactly. I'm doing some of them now. It's maddening what these people say at public meetings. And it's not like they live in Newport. More like Compton.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:36:41 PM

Yeah, they but a ton of housing, some of which is to redevelop existing affordable housing into something expensive and pretty.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:37:08 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 02:31:49 PM

Now you're getting into what I do for a living.

You're not correct.

Tell me more.
Be sure to add in the gentrification happening where a new coat of paint and new management = increasing rest $200/mo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 02:37:40 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:28:01 PM

Yeah, it's fine.  This is all fine.

I work off available data, if you have other data, share it.  

As usual, you post things that simply are not true.

The majority of homeless I see around here are mentally ill or under the influence.  I am told we have plenty of shelters but these folks don't like them.  And yes, there are too many folks who had an adverse circumstance and can't afford an apartment, at least for a while.  I see a lot of places claiming to feature low income apartments.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 02:42:20 PM

States With the Most Homeless People | Best States | U.S. News (usnews.com) (https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/states-with-the-most-homeless-people)

These are the 10 states with the most homeless people, according to the Annual Homeless Assessment Report:

• California (171,521)
• New York (74,178)
• Florida (25,959)
• Washington (25,211)
• Texas (24,432)
• Oregon (17,959)
• Massachusetts (15,507)
• Arizona (13,553)
• Pennsylvania (12,691)
• Georgia (10,689)

The list is close to following population size, per capita would be better.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 02:43:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:36:41 PM

Yeah, they but a ton of housing, some of which is to redevelop existing affordable housing into something expensive and pretty.

Ahh, you're referring to gentrification? Yeah... How dare these developers try to make neighborhoods NICER?!

That said, I'd argue that a lot of gentrification occurs in high-density areas. And in a lot of cases, they're replacing existing housing stock with higher density offerings (usually apartments / condos). While those new offerings may be nicer than what was there and price out existing residents, those new offerings would be FAR more affordable than dropping single family homes on those lots. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:44:28 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 02:37:40 PM

I work off available data, if you have other data, share it. 

As usual, you post things that simply are not true.

The majority of homeless I see around here are mentally ill or under the influence.  I am told we have plenty of shelters but these folks don't like them.  And yes, there are too many folks who had an adverse circumstance and can't afford an apartment, at least for a while.  I see a lot of places claiming to feature low income apartments. 

As usual, you cite your personal anecdote as some sort of evidence.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 02:46:20 PM

Gentrification is slowing down greatly as crime increases in the big cities.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 02:46:38 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:37:08 PM

Tell me more.

About what?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:46:49 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 02:43:26 PM

Ahh, you're referring to gentrification? Yeah... How dare these developers try to make neighborhoods NICER?!

That said, I'd argue that a lot of gentrification occurs in high-density areas. And in a lot of cases, they're replacing existing housing stock with higher density offerings (usually apartments / condos). While those new offerings may be nicer than what was there and price out existing residents, those new offerings would be FAR more affordable than dropping single family homes on those lots.

This phrase is just part of a definition for most people.
For those actual people, this "gift" of developers making a neighborhood nicer = homelessness
.
You can't suggest what's happening is good AND not admit it's causing homelessness.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 02:46:55 PM

I cited plenty of DATA, you haven't cited anything but some notional opinion based of falsities.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:47:49 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 02:46:20 PM

Gentrification is slowing down greatly as crime increases in the big cities.

I'll give you 1 guess why crime increases in the ever-shrinking bad areas of big cities. 
GENTRIFICATION!
When you herd the criminals into smaller parcels of land, yeah, those areas aren't going to be fun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:48:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 02:46:55 PM

I cited plenty of DATA, you haven't cited anything but some notional opinion based of falsities.

You cited one post of homeless numbers, which are universally known to be undercounted.
You're my hero.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 20, 2023, 02:49:06 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 02:19:54 PM

Our economic system is based on greed.  So is every other economic system.  It's a human trait,  and it isn't worse today than in the past.

It is worse than the past,many of the 1% ers already well off collared the Government( and Conglomerates) into allowing themselves to acrue even more at the expense of a dwindling middle class that once enjoyed good incomes from healthy companies. But the creeps that ran those companies shipped the jobs elsewhere but didn't lose their windfalls and write offs that came with them. Left a hole in the taxbase also.Watched them do it in both the steel and automotive industries. happened to textiles before that. And their wealth falls to their descendants along with the accomadating writeoffs. They act like they slayed some evil ne'er do-wells who dared demand a decent wage as barons make off with billions that they hardly needed. As 94 said - I weep for the future. If you can manipulate markets or grab government contracts you're in like Flynn ability and ethics be damned

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 02:49:16 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:37:08 PM

Be sure to add in the gentrification happening where a new coat of paint and new management = increasing rest $200/mo.

Supply and demand. If the market doesn't support those rents, then they'll have low occupancy. If they are at full or near full occupancy at those rents, the rents are fair market value. 

Remember, people have options. Some of those options might not be great, i.e. living farther away from a city and commuting because you can't afford to live closer. Some of those options might be disruptive, such as leaving where you live for another state where cost of living is lower (as the Texans and Floridians here keep bragging about). 

But you know what DOESN'T work? Limiting the amount of rent that can be charged to below-market rates. Because that reduces the economic return on investing in what will actually improve the affordability, which is BUILDING MORE HOUSING STOCK. 

If you disincentivize building new housing stock, don't be shocked when demand (which keeps rising) and supply (which you're restricting) get out of whack and prices go up. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:50:33 PM

I just want to note this pushback I'm getting from the echo chamber.  

You guys are right.  It's fine.  People driven to homelessness will just bend over and take it forever.  It's their fault.  Perpetual growth is possible. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 02:50:58 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:47:49 PM

I'll give you 1 guess why crime increases in the ever-shrinking bad areas of big cities. 
GENTRIFICATION!

That's talking in circles.

Gentrification is slowing. People are leaving big cities behind in favor of suburbs. Yes, even those who are not rich.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:53:21 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 02:49:16 PM

Supply and demand. If the market doesn't support those rents, then they'll have low occupancy. If they are at full or near full occupancy at those rents, the rents are fair market value.

Remember, people have options. Some of those options might not be great, i.e. living farther away from a city and commuting because you can't afford to live closer. Some of those options might be disruptive, such as leaving where you live for another state where cost of living is lower (as the Texans and Floridians here keep bragging about).

But you know what DOESN'T work? Limiting the amount of rent that can be charged to below-market rates. Because that reduces the economic return on investing in what will actually improve the affordability, which is BUILDING MORE HOUSING STOCK.

If you disincentivize building new housing stock, don't be shocked when demand (which keeps rising) and supply (which you're restricting) get out of whack and prices go up.

Yeah, I always wondered why Somalis don't just move.
Just move.  You literally have 37 cents in your bank account?  Just move.
Oh, it costs money to move? 
Hell, I'll move you out further where it's cheaper.  You're welcome.
Oh, you don't have a car? 
Shit, uh, take the bus?
Oh, we moved you out too far and public transporation doesn't come out here?  
Er....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:54:15 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 02:50:58 PM

That's talking in circles.

Gentrification is slowing. People are leaving big cities behind in favor of suburbs. Yes, even those who are not rich.

Let's turn the circle into a spiral and continue......gentrifcation is slowing because ___________.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 02:54:49 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:48:24 PM

You cited one post of homeless numbers, which are universally known to be undercounted.
You're my hero.

Maybe they're undercounted. But by whatever methodology they're using, they're not increasing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States

(https://i.imgur.com/Bsywm4U.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:55:55 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 02:54:49 PM

Maybe they're undercounted. But by whatever methodology they're using, they're not increasing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States

(https://i.imgur.com/Bsywm4U.png)

Can you think of a sad reason homeless numbers aren't increasing?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 02:57:26 PM

Around here, gentrification is blasting ahead, and folks are moving back into the city.  The racial balance is shifting as well.  A new large park opened up on the west side and is attracting all sorts of development now.  That area had been semi-industrial and lightly populated for being in a city, and now it's going crazy, mostly new developments more than fixing up houses.

Visuals emerge for large-scale Marietta Boulevard development | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/marietta-boulevard-development-renderings-first-look)

Near Westside Park, massive residential project enters pipeline | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/near-westside-park-massive-development-proposed-project)

(https://i.imgur.com/kCkj2ih.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:57:39 PM

Homelessness has increased 25% in AZ since 2020.
I guess my eyes see the worst of it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 02:59:19 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:50:33 PM

I just want to note this pushback I'm getting from the echo chamber. 

You guys are right.  It's fine.  People driven to homelessness will just bend over and take it forever.  It's their fault.  Perpetual growth is possible.

Most of us try and work off data, you work off feelings.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2023, 03:00:20 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:12:20 PM

Is it not clear to everyone here that the greed of the few is going to make Karl Marx correct?
.
I don't want it, but what other result is there?

bringing up Karl.......

this has been the warning for 150 years

The Panic of 1873 was a financial crisis that triggered an economic depression in Europe and North America that lasted from 1873 to 1877 or 1879 in France

same as 40 years ago

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 03:00:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 02:59:19 PM

Most of us try and work off data, you work off feelings. 

You're a comedian.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 03:01:34 PM

Why Arizona's homelessness crisis is among the worst in U.S. (azcentral.com) (https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2023/01/05/federal-report-shows-arizona-has-one-of-the-worst-homelessness-crises/69778359007/)

Homelessness across the country increased by less than 1% between 2020 and 2022, the report showed. Yet Arizona saw a 23% jump in its homeless population.
Of the more than 13,000 people experiencing homelessness in Arizona, most were unsheltered, meaning they were living on the street, in a car or in another place not meant for sleeping.
Arizona was one of just four states where more than two-thirds of unaccompanied youth under age 25 did not have a place to sleep.

Impressions and numbers in AZ may be bad, but they are not aligned with the national trend.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 03:01:53 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 20, 2023, 03:00:20 PM

bringing up Karl.......

this has been the warning for 150 years

The Panic of 1873 was a financial crisis that triggered an economic depression in Europe and North America that lasted from 1873 to 1877 or 1879 in France

same as 40 years ago

And as long as those who suffer most during these panics and crises aren't you, then it's fine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 03:03:08 PM

I surmise his simple point didn't make it into OAM's level of consciousness, or comprehension.

It's not at all fine to me that I see folks suffering.  I try and do my part to ameliorate that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 03:04:12 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 02:49:16 PM

Supply and demand. If the market doesn't support those rents, then they'll have low occupancy. If they are at full or near full occupancy at those rents, the rents are fair market value.

Remember, people have options. Some of those options might not be great, i.e. living farther away from a city and commuting because you can't afford to live closer. Some of those options might be disruptive, such as leaving where you live for another state where cost of living is lower (as the Texans and Floridians here keep bragging about).

But you know what DOESN'T work? Limiting the amount of rent that can be charged to below-market rates. Because that reduces the economic return on investing in what will actually improve the affordability, which is BUILDING MORE HOUSING STOCK.

If you disincentivize building new housing stock, don't be shocked when demand (which keeps rising) and supply (which you're restricting) get out of whack and prices go up.

Florida is not affordable in most places.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 03:05:57 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 02:57:39 PM

Homelessness has increased 25% in AZ since 2020.
I guess my eyes see the worst of it.

Ok... So what did the 1% in AZ do in the last three years to cause that? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2023, 03:06:48 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 03:01:53 PM

And as long as those who suffer most during these panics and crises aren't you, then it's fine.

never thought that

just pointing out that this is not a new thing just because the 1% now has more $$$ than the 1% a century ago

hopefully, the world is a slightly better place for mankind than it was in the past
I don't think it's much worse

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 03:07:08 PM

The larger point is that when a studio apartment costs $1000/mo to live in, maybe shrugging and saying "supply and demand" isnt' the proper response.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2023, 03:08:28 PM

what is the proper response?

In your considered opinion

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 03:08:43 PM

What is the "proper response"?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 03:09:43 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 03:07:08 PM

The larger point is that when a studio apartment costs $1000/mo to live in, maybe shrugging and saying "supply and demand" isnt' the proper response.

Maybe it's the fact that we injected $5T in fiscal stimulus into the economy in a very short time, creating a massive inflationary asset appreciation, that has thrown prices out of whack?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 03:11:34 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 03:05:57 PM

Ok... So what did the 1% in AZ do in the last three years to cause that?

A LOT of gentrification.
I've twice moved due to drastic rent increases the past year and a half, just due to principle.  I was able to move, but many aren't.
All, and I mean ALL new housing construction in the city are "luxury apts."  The last thing we need.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 03:13:55 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 03:08:43 PM

What is the "proper response"?

You have to ask.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2023, 03:14:58 PM

they'll quickly stop building luxury apts when they can't sell or rent them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 03:17:39 PM

Let's do solutions.

Caveat: 

Giving away things for free is a non-starter here. 

"We" know it doesn't work because "we've" been doing it for 100+ years.

All it does is keep people down. It's proven.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 03:22:23 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 03:11:34 PM

A LOT of gentrification.
I've twice moved due to drastic rent increases the past year and a half, just due to principle.  I was able to move, but many aren't.
All, and I mean ALL new housing construction in the city are "luxury apts."  The last thing we need.

A lot of gentrification? In three years? 

Perhaps you think "gentrification" means slapping a coat of paint on and raising rent. I think it reflects more than that:

gentrification
[color=var(--lightgray)][ jen-truh-fi-key-shuhn ][/font][/size][/color]

(https://www.dictionary.com/0b29c1db2f0b1c9452c7.svg)

noun

• the buying and renovation of houses and stores in deteriorated urban neighborhoods by upper- or middle-income families or individuals, raising property values but often displacing low-income families and small businesses.

You can't remake a neighborhood in three years. Especially in the middle of a pandemic when you're facing lockdowns, supply chain issues and rapid increase in the cost of building materials. You simply can't do it that fast. It's a decadal process. 

It's inflation / asset appreciation. Not gentrification. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 03:24:03 PM

Even if the national homeless rate stays the same, that's still more homeless people year over year.  At some point, it's going to blow up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 20, 2023, 03:24:47 PM

The truth of the matter is that there is no such thing as "affordable housing".  The Gov't being neck deep in the housing market, either via Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae or other financial mechanisms, only makes things worse.  If the markets were left strictly alone, and the gov't only played referee enforcing free market rules and not doling out money there would be plenty of AA. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 03:25:44 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 03:22:23 PM

A lot of gentrification? In three years?

Perhaps you think "gentrification" means slapping a coat of paint on and raising rent. I think it reflects more than that:

gentrification
[color=var(--lightgray)][ jen-truh-fi-key-shuhn ][/font][/size][/color]

(https://www.dictionary.com/0b29c1db2f0b1c9452c7.svg)

noun

• the buying and renovation of houses and stores in deteriorated urban neighborhoods by upper- or middle-income families or individuals, raising property values but often displacing low-income families and small businesses.

You can't remake a neighborhood in three years. Especially in the middle of a pandemic when you're facing lockdowns, supply chain issues and rapid increase in the cost of building materials. You simply can't do it that fast. It's a decadal process.

It's inflation / asset appreciation. Not gentrification.

You can't remake a neighborhood in three years?
Yeah, you don't live in Phoenix.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 03:26:19 PM

Quote from: Gigem on July 20, 2023, 03:24:47 PM

The truth of the matter is that there is no such thing as "affordable housing".  The Gov't being neck deep in the housing market, either via Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae or other financial mechanisms, only makes things worse.  If the markets were left strictly alone, and the gov't only played referee enforcing free market rules and not doling out money there would be plenty of AA. 

And we'd have a segregated country.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 03:28:30 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 03:24:03 PM

Even if the national homeless rate stays the same, that's still more homeless people year over year.  At some point, it's going to blow up.

The national data that I've shown had a reduction in homelessness of over 60,000 people between 2007 and today. That's a reduction of just over 10%. 

The US population has grown by about 40M people since 2007, an increase of about 13%. 

The rate is NOT staying the same. It's decreasing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 03:29:01 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 03:26:19 PM

And we'd have a segregated country. 

We already do, and always have, unfortunately.

Seeking solutions, por favor.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 03:30:01 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 03:28:30 PM

The national data that I've shown had a reduction in homelessness of over 60,000 people between 2007 and today. That's a reduction of just over 10%.

The US population has grown by about 40M people since 2007, an increase of about 13%.

The rate is NOT staying the same. It's decreasing.

That's great news.  Let's hope its only undercountng a small amount.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 03:32:38 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 03:29:01 PM

We already do, and always have, unfortunately.

Seeking solutions, por favor.

Ask those who keep moving away from people that look differently than them to stop doing so.  HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 03:39:27 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 03:32:38 PM

Ask those who keep moving away from people that look differently who commit violent crimes than them to stop doing so.  HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

Fixed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 03:45:29 PM

Seems like the problem is mostly in Arizona, it's stable or decreasing in other locations.  So, OAM can get right on solving it all, somehow.

I would personally start by looking at factors that limit "affordable housing" and see if those can be reduced.  Some of the factors could well be government misguided policies, like growing cotton in the desert, or get local approvals.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 03:48:53 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 03:32:38 PM

Ask those who keep moving away from people that look differently than them to stop doing so.  HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

It's not about color. It's about socioeconomic class. 

Which is why 50 years ago, the concern was that the richer (mostly white) people moving out of the cities was being decried because they were abandoning the neighborhoods that the poorer (mostly POC) people lived in. And why today, the concern was that the richer (mostly white) people moving back into the cities is called "gentrification" and is bad because it's pricing poorer (mostly POC) people out of neighborhoods. 

Rich white people don't want to live near Jim Bob and Betty Sue in the trailer park either, even though they're white. They'd be perfectly fine living next to Jamaal who has a nice tech job and Kalisha who is a loan officer at the local bank. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 03:49:37 PM

It all starts with being informed. 

The masses are pretty uninformed, no matter the education level.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 03:50:43 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 03:48:53 PM

It's not about color. It's about socioeconomic class.

Which is why 50 years ago, the concern was that the richer (mostly white) people moving out of the cities was being decried because they were abandoning the neighborhoods that the poorer (mostly POC) people lived in. And why today, the concern was that the richer (mostly white) people moving back into the cities is called "gentrification" and is bad because it's pricing poorer (mostly POC) people out of neighborhoods.

Rich white people don't want to live near Jim Bob and Betty Sue in the trailer park either, even though they're white. They'd be perfectly fine living next to Jamaal who has a nice tech job and Kalisha who is a loan officer at the local bank.

You nailed this, Mr. Hammer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 03:52:04 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 03:45:29 PM

Seems like the problem is mostly in Arizona, it's stable or decreasing in other locations.  So, OAM can get right on solving it all, somehow.

I would personally start by looking at factors that limit "affordable housing" and see if those can be reduced.  Some of the factors could well be government misguided policies, like growing cotton in the desert, or get local approvals.

Housing stock doesn't rise or fall quickly. So here's the median home price in Phoenix:

https://realestate.usnews.com/real-estate/housing-market-index/articles/phoenix-housing-market-forecast

(https://i.imgur.com/kUz9Jnp.png)
Gone up about 40% in three years.

Median rent has moved similarly. I don't see the crossover point from the start of 2020 but it looks to be about $1300, which $1858 now would be about 43%.

(https://i.imgur.com/stHlPQX.png)

Doesn't seem like "gentrification" could cause such a big move in such a short time. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 03:56:54 PM

About Columbia Residential Management & Integrated Real Estate Co. (https://www.columbiares.com/about/)

Tenth & Juniper - Senior Apartments Atlanta | Columbia Residential (https://www.columbiares.com/senior-apartments-atlanta/tenth-and-juniper/)

This company does affordable housing, they have a place very near us.  It looks fine to me, the folks sitting outside there seem friendly.  They are nearly all black, no big deal, and it's for 55 and up.  Presume they do a good job, find out what they need to do more.

But around here, a one acre parking lot will go for tens of millions, and you can't build AH with that kind of pricing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 03:58:36 PM

AH can, and is, being built in old malls and office buildings.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 20, 2023, 04:00:30 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 03:25:44 PM

You can't remake a neighborhood in three years?
Yeah, you don't live in Phoenix.

The hell with the high prices the temps will kill you 1st

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 20, 2023, 04:01:40 PM

Me: “why is this place in the mix of a garbled shouting match over housing/homelessness/apparently crime and gentrification?”

/Jumps back six pages  

Me: “Ahhh, someone spouted off in a way that drives us this particular way and continued to push things. No need to put in too much effort to catch up.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 20, 2023, 04:03:37 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 03:58:36 PM

AH can, and is, being built in old malls and office buildings.

Where I live, not very affordable housing is being built in old mills. I’ve heard office buildings are tricky because of plumbing issues. But hopefully some American ingenuity could help that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 04:03:50 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 03:58:36 PM

AH can, and is, being built in old malls and office buildings.

North DeKalb Mall gets a new name as part of redevelopment, demolition to begin later this year – Decaturish - Locally sourced news

 (https://decaturish.com/2023/05/north-dekalb-mall-gets-a-new-name-as-part-of-redevelopment-demolition-to-begin-later-this-year/)This is more demolish and build, probably not much AH  there.  I remember when this mall opened in 1965, it was a wonder.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 20, 2023, 04:09:39 PM

Why do you spend so much effort on someone whose motto is:

“ I don’t have, because you do”

And who can never present facts, nor respond in kind when facts are presented to counter his emotional rantings

And who clearly has no knowledge about the actual subject matter 

And whose solution is to burn it all down

What a waste.    

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 04:12:59 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on July 20, 2023, 04:09:39 PM

Why do you spend so much effort on someone whose motto is:

“ I don’t have, because you do”

Entertainment value.  And to understand how some folks try and "think".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 04:19:54 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 03:48:53 PM

It's not about color. It's about socioeconomic class.

Which is why 50 years ago, the concern was that the richer (mostly white) people moving out of the cities was being decried because they were abandoning the neighborhoods that the poorer (mostly POC) people lived in. And why today, the concern was that the richer (mostly white) people moving back into the cities is called "gentrification" and is bad because it's pricing poorer (mostly POC) people out of neighborhoods.

Rich white people don't want to live near Jim Bob and Betty Sue in the trailer park either, even though they're white. They'd be perfectly fine living next to Jamaal who has a nice tech job and Kalisha who is a loan officer at the local bank.

I agree.  Jim Bob and Betty Sue don't look like rich white people, either.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 04:20:47 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 20, 2023, 04:01:40 PM

Me: “why is this place in the mix of a garbled shouting match over housing/homelessness/apparently crime and gentrification?”

/Jumps back six pages 

Me: “Ahhh, someone spouted off in a way that drives us this particular way and continued to push things. No need to put in too much effort to catch up.”

Yeah, but I want solutions, and this is not a solution:

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 01:52:52 PM

Or, you know, if such a high % of the population can't afford to buy or rent a place to live start burning shit down.

Not even close.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 04:21:55 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 04:19:54 PM

I agree.  Jim Bob and Betty Sue don't look like rich white people, either.

What do "rich" white people look like?

But first we need to define rich. Maybe we already did.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 04:23:51 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on July 20, 2023, 04:09:39 PM

Why do you spend so much effort on someone whose motto is:

“ I don’t have, because you do”

And who can never present facts, nor respond in kind when facts are presented to counter his emotional rantings

And who clearly has no knowledge about the actual subject matter

And whose solution is to burn it all down

What a waste.   

Ah.
Here we are.
Always letting your hatred of me to cloud your eyes.
I never once said that was my solution, just that I'm finding it more and more likely.  As in don't be surprised when it happens.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 04:24:37 PM

I notice when folks do "burn S---- down" it often is their own neighborhoods, and the outcome is not good for anyone, other than looters.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 04:24:41 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 20, 2023, 04:03:37 PM

Where I live, not very affordable housing is being built in old mills. I’ve heard office buildings are tricky because of plumbing issues. But hopefully some American ingenuity could help that.

It's not all going to be AH.

The building needs to be in foreclosure, and the bank needs to cut a deal with a new buyer to get itself out from under said foreclosure. Banks cannot keep/sit on properties.

I learned a lot about receivership from 2008-2012.

@Honestbuckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=37) surely can tell us more about this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 04:25:36 PM

And the data once again show it is not more and more likely due to homelessness.  But, when feelings supplant data, one can assert anything.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 04:25:39 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 04:23:51 PM

Ah.
Here we are.
Always letting your hatred of me to cloud your eyes.
I never once said that was my solution, just that I'm finding it more and more likely.  As in don't be surprised when it happens.

It doesn't have to.

There are solutions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 04:27:38 PM

Most of the solutions here involve shrugging and ragging on me.  Useful.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 04:29:44 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 04:25:36 PM

And the data once again show it is not more and more likely due to homelessness.  But, when feelings supplant data, one can assert anything.

What floor are you on?  May I call it your ivory tower?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 04:31:24 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 04:29:44 PM

What floor are you on?  May I call it your ivory tower?

I would bet I do more for the homeless than you do.

I work off data and logic, not feelings.  I try and propose some possible approaches to a posed problem instead of just whining.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2023, 04:32:48 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 20, 2023, 04:01:40 PM

Me: “why is this place in the mix of a garbled shouting match over housing/homelessness/apparently crime and gentrification?”

/Jumps back six pages 

Me: “Ahhh, someone spouted off in a way that drives us this particular way and continued to push things. No need to put in too much effort to catch up.”

and to think I almost missed it
makes me shudder

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 04:38:32 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 04:27:38 PM

Most of the solutions here involve shrugging and ragging on me.  Useful.

Well, most of us talk about problems and solutions, and the economic and political causes of those problems, and the incentives and hurdles that are hard to change but need to change to implement a solution. 

We rag on you when you say "waah waah waah rich people and Republicans are at fault and if I just had their money I could fix it all because every problem is as simple in reality as it is in my brain!" 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 04:40:53 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 20, 2023, 04:03:37 PM

Where I live, not very affordable housing is being built in old mills. I’ve heard office buildings are tricky because of plumbing issues. But hopefully some American ingenuity could help that.

Getting back to this...

What I know about office space is that generally there is 12' of spacing between the concrete floor and the floor above it. Ceilings are dropped 2 feet to accommodate mechanical, plumbing, electrical and HVAC.

For individual apartments, the floor would be raised 6-8" using wood joists, allowing for waste plumbing. Potable water plumbing is dropped from above. Or course you need waste risers so those would be in the walls and sent to the main building riser. Pipes may need to be upsized to accommodate the increased flow, as residential water use is roughly 10 times that of office, in population equivalents.

You'd probably end up with 8-9 foot ceilings, all things considered.

The other factor is the structural concerns, which I'm certain @GopherRock (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=47) knows a helluva lot more than me about.

And it may not be a concern, as commercial live loads are generally 3-5 times more than that of residential loads.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 04:41:33 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 04:27:38 PM

Most of the solutions here involve shrugging and ragging on me.  Useful.

This is bullshit, and you know it. You're smarter than this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 04:44:47 PM

For me to consider buying an office building for conversion, I'd need to see the structural, mechanical, plumbing and electrical plans.

SMEP plans, we might say, in the business.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 04:47:17 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 04:38:32 PM

Well, most of us talk about problems and solutions, and the economic and political causes of those problems, and the incentives and hurdles that are hard to change but need to change to implement a solution.

We rag on you when you say "waah waah waah rich people and Republicans are at fault and if I just had their money I could fix it all because every problem is as simple in reality as it is in my brain!"

I don't find this an accurate portrayal at all.  
.
I do have to say that almost everyone here is or acts like they're inside the circle and blindly, feverishly defend the status quo and shrug when it comes to those outside the circle.  
.
But that's just me whining again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2023, 04:49:52 PM

those plans are usually readily available

and probably don't differ too awful much from office buildings in the same region and the same timeframe

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 05:07:47 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 04:47:17 PM

I don't find this an accurate portrayal at all. 
.
I do have to say that almost everyone here is or acts like they're inside the circle and blindly, feverishly defend the status quo and shrug when it comes to those outside the circle. 
.
But that's just me whining again.

Except we're NOT all defending the status quo. 

If you want to keep something affordable, you have to allow supply to increase to meet demand. We have talked, at length, about how zoning and NIMBYism, and land use restrictions, constrain supply and hold it way below demand.

We had this same discussion related to San Francisco (https://www.cfb51.com/big-ten/in-other-news-18271/msg517098/#msg517098) 2 1/2 months ago. 

The natural result of zoning and NIMBYism is to build out, not up, which creates sprawl, traffic, very high prices, long commutes for anyone who can't afford to live close, etc. 

We recognize the status quo, but that's not defending it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 20, 2023, 05:16:56 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 04:24:41 PM

It's not all going to be AH.

The building needs to be in foreclosure, and the bank needs to cut a deal with a new buyer to get itself out from under said foreclosure. Banks cannot keep/sit on properties.

I learned a lot about receivership from 2008-2012.

@Honestbuckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=37) surely can tell us more about this.

For bank owned buildings- very accurate. 
Also for info- the bank has almost always already lost money as the payments have not been made, they have spent legal money to initiate foreclosure proceedings, they have paid to market the property- and more often than not- they need to bring resorts to the property.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2023, 05:19:46 PM

At a news conference on Wednesday, North Dakota authorities said that the shooter responsible for the death of a Fargo Police Department officer and the injury of two other officers used 1,800 rounds of ammunition, a grenade and other explosives to unleash a "murderous barrage of fire."

Mohamad Barakat, 37, was fatally shot by Officer Zachary Robinson, 31, authorities said. Officer Jake Wallin, 23, was killed, while officers Andrew Dotas, 28, and Tyler Hawes, 22, were critically injured. A woman was also shot, but authorities have not said who shot her.

"In the wake of Mohamad Barakat’s murderous, unprovoked attack, Officer Zach Robinson’s use of deadly force was reasonable, it was necessary, it was justified, and in all ways, it was lawful," North Dakota Attorney General Drew Wrigley told reporters. "Mohamad Barakat engaged in a savage attack. ... He unleashed what can only be described fairly as a murderous barrage of fire. But that isn’t to say it wasn’t precise. In fact, it was."

Wrigley said Barakat’s vehicle was "loaded" with 1,800 rounds of ammunition, three long rifles, four handguns, canisters of gasoline, a vest with loaded magazines in every pocket and a live homemade hand grenade.

Officials released a photograph showing that eight of the magazines bore American flag stickers or decals.

Wrigley said Barakat also had a "shooting vest" that wasn't bulletproof, but had magazines in every pocket, and he had a suitcase of weapons, which he had rolled out of his apartment right before getting into his car. There was no mention of whether Barakat had any protective gear.

"When you look at the amount of ammunition this shooter had in his car, he was planning on more mayhem in our community," Fargo Mayor Tim Mahoney said. Police Chief David Zibolski said Barakat's target was unknown.

Wrigley said Robinson displayed "absolute courage under fire" as he moved away from the cover of his vehicle and exchanged fire with Barakat, including a shot that "incapacitated" the suspect’s rifle — leaving roughly 20 rounds unused that could have been fired at other people.

"He said, ‘We have three officers down. Send everybody,’" Wrigley said. "And send everybody they did."

At some point Barakat was wounded, and was down on the ground, but he rearmed himself with a 9 mm handgun that he kept waving around, protected by his car, Wrigley said. Barakat continued to disobey Robinson’s repeated commands to drop his gun. Robinson continued to move in and gave him one final command.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 20, 2023, 05:23:00 PM

Fro- whether you believe this or not, I have no hatred for you. Far from it.

I am not a hateful person, and I find hatefulness to be very wasteful.

And I totally agree with you that this whole issue of affordability for people is an enormous problem that needs to somehow move in a better direction, and eventually get fixed. I totally worry about it. Like- all the time.  I see it a lot, because that happens to be the business I am in; helping people move into homes. 

We likely disagree strongly on what the root causes are or what some of the solutions are. But I believe in your right to express your opinion about it even if I don’t agree with it and I will defend that right every chance I get in with rigor. 

But you call all of us an echo chamber. That’s a real in accurate characterization. There are a wide variety of views here on this topic and other topics.

In contrast, we could call you a “focus group of one“ because you always want to point to the same people in the same tribe for all the problems that our country faces. It’s so predictable.

To be honest with you, it just gets tiresome. It’s very challenging to try to have a constructive debate with a person who is as close minded as you are.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2023, 05:26:00 PM

Affordable???  Move to NW Iowa

4 Beds 2 Baths - House - $1,400.00

House for rent.  4404 Polk st in sioux city.  4bdrm/2bath with central air and kitchen appliances included.  1400/mo with a matching security deposit.  W/d not included but hookups are in basement.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on July 20, 2023, 05:44:58 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 04:40:53 PM

Getting back to this...

What I know about office space is that generally there is 12' of spacing between the concrete floor and the floor above it. Ceilings are dropped 2 feet to accommodate mechanical, plumbing, electrical and HVAC.

For individual apartments, the floor would be raised 6-8" using wood joists, allowing for waste plumbing. Potable water plumbing is dropped from above. Or course you need waste risers so those would be in the walls and sent to the main building riser. Pipes may need to be upsized to accommodate the increased flow, as residential water use is roughly 10 times that of office, in population equivalents.

You'd probably end up with 8-9 foot ceilings, all things considered.

The other factor is the structural concerns, which I'm certain @GopherRock (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=47) knows a helluva lot more than me about.

And it may not be a concern, as commercial live loads are generally 3-5 times more than that of residential loads.

This is part and parcel with the structural concerns. In discussions like this, it's easy to forget that water is heavy. It weighs ~62 pounds per cubic foot, and moving water has an inertia of it's own..

I'll admit that my structural knowledge is a little rusty, but when you're increasing the water flow by a factor of 10, both coming and going, it doesn't take very long before any weight gains in conversion to residential live load are wiped out.

Like Badge, before we can talk conversion, I need to see all original plans. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 05:53:24 PM

Atlanta Retrofitting Prominent Office Tower to Residential (strongtowns.org) (https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2023/3/21/atlanta-retrofitting-prominent-office-tower-to-residential)

But, as often happens when you do the math, this feel-good story has a rub: “Converting offices to residential is a great idea, it’s just really hard and really expensive,” says Eric Kronberg, an Atlanta-based developer (https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2021/10/18/where-did-all-the-small-developers-go) with Kronberg Urbanists + Architects (https://www.kronbergua.com/). Kronberg points to numerous physical challenges with such a project. “The floor plates can be deep, so it’s hard to design units with bedrooms and living spaces that have glass. Building codes require ventilation, and people like to be able to open a window. That’s not easily achievable in most office building skins.”
Even after a successful renovation, the economics of converting office to residential is still problematic. “As crazy as our rents are [in Atlanta], they're still not high enough to support this kind of development,” says Kronberg. For the 2 Peachtree Street project, the city hasn’t yet provided “any breakdown of price points for the rents,” according to Atlanta Civic Circle (https://atlantaciviccircle.org/2022/10/22/atlanta-two-peachtree-repurposed-affordable-housing/). Kronberg says many developers would struggle to make a profit with this type of project even if they were given the office building for free, citing another building Atlanta bought eight years ago that’s still vacant for want of a development partner.
Kronberg would like to see the city work with developers to turn “a huge surplus of vacant land” into a greater mix of housing types, which would be more economical than the hefty expenditures for the Peachtree Street project. He also expresses frustration at how slow the permitting process is in a city with a “wretched housing crisis (https://www.strongtowns.org/housing).”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 05:57:55 PM

Converting offices into housing has not worked out the way we hoped. (slate.com) (https://slate.com/business/2022/12/office-housing-conversion-downtown-twitter-beds.html)

Sounds difficult, and pricey.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 20, 2023, 06:00:33 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2023, 04:20:47 PM

Yeah, but I want solutions, and this is not a solution:


Not even close.

Correct, but alas, yelling at the nonsense descends us into unseriousness on all sides. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 20, 2023, 07:09:21 PM

what the hell is going on here?

Anyway...

(https://i.imgur.com/ti9l1T0.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 20, 2023, 07:23:01 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 20, 2023, 06:00:33 PM

Correct, but alas, yelling at the nonsense descends us into unseriousness on all sides.

Well, yelling at the nonsense is about as useful as seriousness. 

Because everyone is against NIMBYism in theory, but in practice once something intrudes on their own backyard, they find a reason to make an exception. 

It's the fun of humanity. 

Just like everyone knows that a balanced diet and regular exercise is necessary to be healthy and fit, and often say they plan to do exactly that... But to paraphrase Iron Mike, "Everyone has a plan until they want to shove a Big Mac in their mouth."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 20, 2023, 07:29:37 PM

(https://media.makeameme.org/created/wait-a-minute-5aa979.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2023, 08:04:04 AM

Well, we have learned that the major increase in the unhoused seems to be local to Arizona, so it's their problem.  The other 49 appear to be dropping slightly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2023, 08:09:01 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 05:57:55 PM

Converting offices into housing has not worked out the way we hoped. (slate.com) (https://slate.com/business/2022/12/office-housing-conversion-downtown-twitter-beds.html)

Sounds difficult, and pricey.

Again, it depends on the circumstances.

My firm is working on 3 such redevelopments in the West suburbs of Chicago. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2023, 08:13:17 AM

I'm sure it can work in some instances, but perhaps not in every.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2023, 08:16:10 AM

What about conversions of older hotels in city centers?  You already have the plumbing.  You could make a decent suite with two typical rooms.  I've seen some converted to "Embassy Suites" this way.  How many older hotels are past their prime?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 21, 2023, 08:31:43 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 21, 2023, 08:13:17 AM

I'm sure it can work in some instances, but perhaps not in every. 

works less often for "affordable" housing because of high expense 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2023, 08:41:57 AM

One isssue is that the authorities can't take a person off the streets just because he's crazy (unless he commits a crime, and even then they usually overlook it).  We no longer have involuntary mental hospitals.  I've called 311 a few times and they call me back (usually).  The individuals have never accepted their offers of help or housing.  These are folks living outside, no tent or anything beyond maybe a shopping cart.  Then cities have tent villages like in SF, I saw some in Vancouver (which seems to have a real problem as well).  If you have a tent, you are "covered" and probably have possessions you wish to retain, most of which would be gone if you accepted a housing offer.

To the extent these folks are "crazy", free housing of whatever type won't be appealing by and large.  Crazy includes both mentally deranged as well as drug addled, they don't know where they are basically.  This is probably a small percentage of folks in tent villages, but significant for the homeless.  The tent thing is not very apparent around here, I see some on occasion when driving, but the next time I come through they are gone, I don't know exactly why.

And of course the notion that at some point these folks will "rise up and burn everything down" is not one I think has much to it, nor is the risk of communism very high in my view.  The burning arises usually from some police incident which leads to protests which can degrade into riots and then looting and burning.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2023, 08:47:43 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 21, 2023, 08:16:10 AM

What about conversions of older hotels in city centers?  You already have the plumbing.  You could make a decent suite with two typical rooms.  I've seen some converted to "Embassy Suites" this way.  How many older hotels are past their prime?

Concern there would be the electrical requirements, I'd think. That's not a super-hard fix though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 21, 2023, 09:02:19 AM

affordable housing isn't a fix for the homeless, for the most part

It's more for folks with lower incomes having a decent place to live w/o spending a high percentage of their income.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 21, 2023, 09:14:35 AM

I would like to see significant economic incentives that promote lower cost, quality housing.  

For example- give those with moderate incomes a FULL tax deduction for their entire home or rent payment- for the first 5 years in a home.  

Give home builders a tax incentive to build affordable homes that is so significant it makes it more profitable to build affordable homes than luxury homes.  

Finally- give investors a tax deduction for rental income to affordable borrowers to stimulate that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2023, 09:21:33 AM

As noted above, there are two or more issues with the "unhoused" that are separate things.  If "we" would like to make housing more affordable for the "working poor", that's a more solvable problem with money.  What is HUD's budget?  

Do we need to spend more on K-12 education?  We already spend more than any other major western country.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 21, 2023, 09:23:25 AM

I'm all for 1st time home buyers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 21, 2023, 09:24:44 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 21, 2023, 09:21:33 AM

Do we need to spend more on K-12 education?  We already spend more than any other major western country.

same can be said for many things, such as military

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2023, 10:02:50 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on July 21, 2023, 09:14:35 AM

I would like to see significant economic incentives that promote lower cost, quality housing. 

For example- give those with moderate incomes a FULL tax deduction for their entire home or rent payment- for the first 5 years in a home. 

Give home builders a tax incentive to build affordable homes that is so significant it makes it more profitable to build affordable homes than luxury homes. 

Finally- give investors a tax deduction for rental income to affordable borrowers to stimulate that.

Is there a Government role for this, aside from the tax code?

And tax code is a whole new topic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2023, 10:04:12 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 21, 2023, 09:24:44 AM

same can be said for many things, such as military

Our spending on K-12 is per capita, and it's a lot.  Our other spending is also a lot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 21, 2023, 10:05:12 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2023, 10:02:50 AM

Is there a Government role for this, aside from the tax code?

And tax code is a whole new topic.

Nope.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 21, 2023, 10:10:30 AM

oh, I feel there's a huge Government role in this

that's eliminating the government's role

Get out!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2023, 10:11:07 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 21, 2023, 09:02:19 AM

affordable housing isn't a fix for the homeless, for the most part

It's more for folks with lower incomes having a decent place to live w/o spending a high percentage of their income.

That's what the mental institutions were for, but that was inhumane.

As if homelessness is humane.

Solutions?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 21, 2023, 10:17:36 AM

solutions for mental illness or affordable housing?

I'd like to see more effort to help folks with mental illness

a big thing for many of society's issues
homeless
mass shootings
suicide
domestic abuse
addiction

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on July 21, 2023, 10:18:31 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 20, 2023, 12:16:37 PM

folks moving from Phoenix to Chicago?
Good

The drop was temporary here in Phoenix.  We had a massive surge in prices over the last few years and then a drop over a short period about 6 months and over the last 2 months inventory is down and demand is up and prices are rising again

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2023, 10:26:24 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on July 21, 2023, 10:05:12 AM

Nope. 

How about abolishing the IRS? I like the idea.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on July 21, 2023, 10:31:40 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 03:45:29 PM

Seems like the problem is mostly in Arizona, it's stable or decreasing in other locations.  So, OAM can get right on solving it all, somehow.

I would personally start by looking at factors that limit "affordable housing" and see if those can be reduced.  Some of the factors could well be government misguided policies, like growing cotton in the desert, or get local approvals.

Arizona's problem, imho, is the influx of Californians who have sold their million dollar houses which would have been a 350K house pre influx, driving housing prices for the equivalent house to $500K.  Prices people out of the housing market and into the rental market. So the demand for rental is increasing causing an increase in pricing.  This increase causing those who can't afford it to either team up or move or be homeless. 

It really is a vicious cycle with no end in sight unless California does something about the reason they people are fleeing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2023, 10:35:47 AM

The authorities cannot legally take someone off the streets simply because they are very clearly mentally ill UNLESS they pose a threat to themselves or others.

Crazy people
Drug addicted people
Folks struggling to get enough money for rent and food
Probably a few folks who enjoy the lifestyle, like the old Hobboes

The third category can be helped, and generally do get help.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2023, 10:38:59 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on July 21, 2023, 10:31:40 AM

Arizona's problem, imho, is the influx of Californians who have sold their million dollar houses which would have been a 350K house pre influx, driving housing prices for the equivalent house to $500K.  Prices people out of the housing market and into the rental market. So the demand for rental is increasing causing an increase in pricing.  This increase causing those who can't afford it to either team up or move or be homeless.

It really is a vicious cycle with no end in sight unless California does something about the reason they people are fleeing.

Hey now, they've done a good job of changing Arizona!


Probably too late. The train has left the station.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 21, 2023, 10:46:45 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on July 21, 2023, 10:31:40 AM

It really is a vicious cycle with no end in sight unless California does something about the reason they people are fleeing.

Nobody lives here anymore. It's too crowded. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 21, 2023, 11:42:15 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 21, 2023, 10:46:45 AM

Nobody lives here anymore. It's too crowded.

ok Yogi

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 21, 2023, 01:48:52 PM

I was amazed when I saw people starting to rent shared bedrooms.  
It's alarming.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 21, 2023, 01:54:09 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 21, 2023, 01:48:52 PM

I was amazed when I saw people starting to rent shared bedrooms. 
It's alarming. 

Very.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 21, 2023, 07:45:55 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 21, 2023, 01:48:52 PM

I was amazed when I saw people starting to rent shared bedrooms. 
It's alarming. 

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/elites-own-nothing-take-away

check this out. ( don’t be fooled by the source)

To high degree Fro- it supports your original statement.  This has been going on for a while now and is only increasing. I have been seeing it daily for roughly 2 years.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 21, 2023, 09:15:43 PM

Many apartments no longer have an office.  They have a phone number of the company with hundreds? of properties across the country.
No one to give you a quick price quote or ask questions important to you, just a shut-down office and that phone number.

Every single dip in housing prices = gobbled up by companies

The wealthy/corporations take advantage of every opportunity while the masses don't even know there's an opportunity (and the ones who do have no way of taking advantage). 

Actions don't have to be illegal to be unethical.  And even when you have the right to do something doesn't mean you should.  I don't even fault the wealthy really, but the system in place promotes a snowball effect in wealth.  
I could be wrong, but I feel like turning $1 million into $10 million used to be difficult and risky, but nowadays, it always seems inevitable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 21, 2023, 09:27:31 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 21, 2023, 09:15:43 PM

Many apartments no longer have an office.  They have a phone number of the company with hundreds? of properties across the country.
No one to give you a quick price quote or ask questions important to you, just a shut-down office and that phone number.

Every single dip in housing prices = gobbled up by companies

The wealthy/corporations take advantage of every opportunity while the masses don't even know there's an opportunity (and the ones who do have no way of taking advantage). 

Actions don't have to be illegal to be unethical.  And even when you have the right to do something doesn't mean you should. I don't even fault the wealthy really, but the system in place promotes a snowball effect in wealth. 
I could be wrong, but I feel like turning $1 million into $10 million used to be difficult and risky, but nowadays, it always seems inevitable.

Yes. It’s like a snowball down hill. Apartments and houses. 

And they can go in with cash and bypass the mortgage process and leave a qualified consumer in the dust.  It’s happening a lot now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 22, 2023, 12:18:44 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on July 21, 2023, 10:31:40 AM

Arizona's problem, imho, is the influx of Californians who have sold their million dollar houses which would have been a 350K house pre influx, driving housing prices for the equivalent house to $500K.  Prices people out of the housing market and into the rental market. So the demand for rental is increasing causing an increase in pricing.  This increase causing those who can't afford it to either team up or move or be homeless.

It really is a vicious cycle with no end in sight unless California does something about the reason they people are fleeing.

What you have described is basic capitalism in action. People leave expensive places for cheaper places. Fallout happens.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 22, 2023, 12:24:19 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on July 21, 2023, 07:45:55 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/elites-own-nothing-take-away

check this out. ( don’t be fooled by the source)

To high degree Fro- it supports your original statement.  This has been going on for a while now and is only increasing. I have been seeing it daily for roughly 2 years. 

The blaming of “elites” feels like a bit of a straw man. “Elites” are illusory. A convenient boogie man of sorts.

This seems to blame hedge funds for making unfortunately shrewd investments, because we’ve kind of reached the logical end of “home as asset” theory. Someone with more resources and expertise will leverage that efficiently. 

It’s what you’d call an externality of an efficient market.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 22, 2023, 12:30:35 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2023, 10:11:07 AM

That's what the mental institutions were for, but that was inhumane.

As if homelessness is humane.

Solutions?

Hmmm. If we used the mental institution framework, one solution would be building a lot of basically free housing.

There’s a sort of paradox with homelessness. Most of it is the kind you don’t see on the street, and that sort is far easier to solve. The issue with the mental hospitals is they made a mockery of very real rights (and a lot were unfit for habitation with staff issues).

In the end, a certain level of homelessness is just an end result of rights. There’s a high, high bar to force people into treatment they don’t want. And until they do something bad, they still have rights.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 22, 2023, 12:59:07 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2023, 10:11:07 AM

That's what the  were for, but that was inhumane.

As if homelessness is humane.

Solutions?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 22, 2023, 01:00:43 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 21, 2023, 10:11:07 AM

That's what the mental institutions fan forums are for, but that was inhumane.

Solutions?

FIFY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 22, 2023, 03:02:49 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 22, 2023, 12:18:44 AM

What you have described is basic capitalism in action. People leave expensive places for cheaper places. Fallout happens.

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 22, 2023, 12:24:19 AM

The blaming of “elites” feels like a bit of a straw man. “Elites” are illusory. A convenient boogie man of sorts.

This seems to blame hedge funds for making unfortunately shrewd investments, because we’ve kind of reached the logical end of “home as asset” theory. Someone with more resources and expertise will leverage that efficiently. 

It’s what you’d call an externality of an efficient market.

Can I combine the end of one post with the beginning of another?
.
The fallout is people's well-being.  The cost is another million for someone else.
I have no problem with some people succeeding and others failing.  That's completely normal and fine.
But the numbers are getting absurd.  The number of impoverished people vs the cartoony numbers of the wealthy.  We've all heard the stats on additional billionaires during the pandemic.
As restaurants and stores closed down, the truly wealthy gained a windfall.  
There's a reason you can't be middle class on one income like you could back in the 60s and early 70s.  Wages largely stagnated for decades as profits soared.  So then the masses want a minimum wage jump, and those against it cite that it's too large a jump.  It's a jump because the wealthy didn't do it incrementally over the years.  
.
How much wealth is enough?  Not in terms of government overreach suppressing one's freedom for wealth, but if another million suppresses 15 families well-being, is it worth it?  Or 150 families.  Or 1,500.  Yes, the wealthy person is free to earn or create as much money as they'd like, but just because you're free to do something doesn't mean you should.  Our publicly-traded companies system requires quarterly perpetual growth, which is impossible.  
.
They're having trouble inventing shit for the ultra-wealthy to buy.  1 Lamborghini is a joke now, you need 15 of them.  A yacht?  Pish-posh, you need a super-yacht with its own sub.  You need a ride into outer-fucking space.  A private jet?  Please!  You need your own 767.  
.
There's no such thing as enough  Boo-hoo.  Work harder, losers.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 22, 2023, 05:56:44 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on July 22, 2023, 12:24:19 AM

The blaming of “elites” feels like a bit of a straw man. “Elites” are illusory. A convenient boogie man of sorts.

This seems to blame hedge funds for making unfortunately shrewd investments, because we’ve kind of reached the logical end of “home as asset” theory. Someone with more resources and expertise will leverage that efficiently. 

It’s what you’d call an externality of an efficient market.

Yes. I agree with you in the sense that the article actually casts blame and points at something sinister and intentional.  That’s not true IMHO.

The part that I know is true is extremely large corporations and hedge funds making shrewd investments- a byproduct of which is less homes available ( and apartments) for the individual consumer.  On a now massive scale. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 22, 2023, 06:12:41 AM

https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/live-local-act-makes-it-easier-to-8716912/

Here is an example of a bipartisan, robust effort to creat more affordable housing. Live Local Act. 

It leverages incentives, zoning and rules around new development to attempt to create massive new opportunities for real affordable housing. 

It’s new- so too early to know how successful it will be.   I was at a public meeting with all constituents in attendance.   There was wide agreement that this will cause pretty rapid change, and moderately strong agreement that it will substantially improve the situation.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 22, 2023, 09:12:55 AM

My 'hood.

https://www.redfin.com/CA/Mission-Viejo/23321-Via-Burriana-92691/home/5081720

Rigoddamndiculous.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2023, 10:02:04 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 22, 2023, 09:12:55 AM

My 'hood.

https://www.redfin.com/CA/Mission-Viejo/23321-Via-Burriana-92691/home/5081720

Rigoddamndiculous.

All that money and no fridge?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2023, 10:11:53 AM

I'd gladly pay $1.2 mil for a 'home that has everything' ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 22, 2023, 10:50:02 AM

And you get the nice water retention pond with a big black tarp over it view. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2023, 11:19:02 AM

That's bad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2023, 01:14:21 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on July 22, 2023, 06:12:41 AM

https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/live-local-act-makes-it-easier-to-8716912/

Here is an example of a bipartisan, robust effort to creat more affordable housing. Live Local Act.

It leverages incentives, zoning and rules around new development to attempt to create massive new opportunities for real affordable housing.

It’s new- so too early to know how successful it will be.  I was at a public meeting with all constituents in attendance.  There was wide agreement that this will cause pretty rapid change, and moderately strong agreement that it will substantially improve the situation. 

Just got through all of that. I think it has a great chance of working. I like that it takes a lot of NIMBY out the process too.

It's a real problem here. The people who want to work cannot not find places to live in order to do so.

Kudos to the legislature on this.

Next, let's get the Brightline to Fort Myers (from West Palm) and Tampa (from Orlando). Lots of people in the middle of the state would use that to get to work on either coast, I'd think. Especially East coast

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 22, 2023, 01:46:01 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 22, 2023, 01:14:21 PM

Just got through all of that. I think it has a great chance of working. I like that it takes a lot of NIMBY out the process too.

It's a real problem here. The people who want to work cannot not find places to live in order to do so.

Kudos to the legislature on this.

Next, let's get the Brightline to Fort Myers (from West Palm) and Tampa (from Orlando). Lots of people in the middle of the state would use that to get to work on either coast, I'd think. Especially East coast

Thank you for actually reading it. It’s one thing to piss and moan about a problem, but it’s a while other  thing to do some research and see what’s going on out there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2023, 02:21:57 PM

We had a storm with wind and lightning and this happened over in the park:

(https://i.imgur.com/FM1yceY.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 22, 2023, 03:34:19 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on July 22, 2023, 01:46:01 PM

Thank you for actually reading it. It’s one thing to piss and moan about a problem, but it’s a while other  thing to do some research and see what’s going on out there.

Sounds great.  
But they're doing fuck-all here in AZ.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 23, 2023, 08:06:33 AM

AZ needs a better governor.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2023, 09:15:00 AM

It's a bit ironic that the increase in homelessness appears to be concentrated in AZ.  The influx of residents from CA sending up prices sounds like a reason for it.

I was a bit surprised to see quite a bit of it in Vancouver, BC, which of course is famous for high housing prices.  My daughter has a pretty nice 2 bdr townhouse there in a great part of town and pays $3700 CA which I thought was a deal.  She also gets an allowance from her company that covers it, but that ends next year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2023, 09:15:57 AM

From the Weird History thread today:

THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

12th Street Riot Begins (1967)
In 1967, racial tensions spurred by high unemployment rates and poor housing conditions in Detroit exploded when police officers raided a speakeasy on the corner of 12th Street and Clairmount. The confrontation with the patrons developed into one of the deadliest and most destructive riots in modern US history, lasting five days and resulting in 43 deaths, 467 injuries, more than 7,200 arrests, and the destruction of more than 2,000 buildings.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 23, 2023, 09:32:52 AM

sounds familiar? This guy talks about how Britain is wrecking it's economy going full electric - that isn't really ready as China/India continues burning coal/oil/gas around 4:25 of the video

https://youtu.be/HSWQrL8N480

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 23, 2023, 09:35:17 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 23, 2023, 09:15:57 AM

From the Weird History thread today:

 destruction of more than 2,000 buildings.

I wonder how many of those buildings had been affordable housing?
I blame the 1%

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2023, 09:56:06 AM

My general take is countries MOSTLY do smaller stuff for optics, and set "goals" years or decades off that somebody else would have to manage.  The recent US legislation authorized "only" $37 billion a year for fixing CC, which is a lot of money on the one hand, but a pittance relative to anything real.  Then some states declare only EVs can be sold after 2035 (somebody else's watch by then of course).  And even if that happened in the US, it would take until 2050 before even half the cars on the road are EVs, much less trucks.

If you really really believe CC is a major major crisis, the ONLY real option is nuclear with fast permitting etc.  And that won't happen of course.  They will build more W&S which is mostly Ok with me, but still we'll be burning coal in 2050 is a major way in the US!  At least nuclear could replace coal in a decade with a real plan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 24, 2023, 07:24:10 AM

Twitter is now called X. Maybe the plan is to turn it into a competitor with Pornhub.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 24, 2023, 07:44:55 AM

I'll see your Meta and raise you an X.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 25, 2023, 08:48:39 AM

Landmark downtown building to become homeless agency's HQ | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/downtown-atl-historic-building-homeless-agency-headquarters-first-look)

Sort of interesting, they seem to have some funds for a nonprofit to do this.  

Georgia Works’ plans call for beginning construction in January and opening the Auburn Avenue facility in March 2025.
Once renovated, the Odd Fellows Building will house all of Georgia Works’ operations under one roof, including the nonprofit’s offices and programming space.
Other sections will house up to 164 men at any given time. That will include 40 spaces for Georgia Works program participants, plus transitional housing for 124 recent graduates of the program. Those men will be housed in 60 shared apartments, each with two or three beds, according to Invest Atlanta.
At street level, most of the discounted retail spaces are already spoken for.
Georgia Works has secured letters of intent from nutrition provider Open Hand to operate a convenience store that will serve fresh, prepackaged meals; current Atlanta nonprofits Civil Bikes and Bearings Bike Works plan to share a retail space; elsewhere, existing tenants The Skate Shop and Lee’s Boutique are expected to consolidate into a single storefront.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 25, 2023, 10:44:03 AM

This is another pandemic result, I think. So many people bought dogs to keep them company. 

Now they don't want/need/can't afford them any longer.

Pet surrenders soar across Tampa Bay area (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/pet-surrenders-soar-across-tampa-bay-area/ar-AA1ejl1J?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=cc337777d3f9493c972e911cd04cb561&ei=34)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 25, 2023, 11:53:56 AM

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hillary-clinton-blames-maga-republicans-making-hot-outside


I was never (nor will I ever be) a fan of Trump.  But I am forever grateful to him for one thing:

Keeping this complete moron from getting near the White House.  What an idiot she is.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 25, 2023, 11:55:11 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 24, 2023, 07:44:55 AM

I'll see your Meta and raise you an X.

What does that term mean 🥴 ? The only way I've heard it used was "you a better META the bookie and pay him or your knee caps will swing the other way"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 25, 2023, 12:02:01 PM

Bit of personal news, been in the hospital since Sunday with diverticulitis. 

No Sunday at the park, that’s for sure. About to be released. Wish me luck! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 25, 2023, 12:03:43 PM

Good luck indeed, and best wishes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 25, 2023, 12:07:02 PM

Quote from: Gigem on July 25, 2023, 12:02:01 PM

Bit of personal news, been in the hospital since Sunday with diverticulitis.

No Sunday at the park, that’s for sure. About to be released. Wish me luck!

Good luck!


My wife has been in the hospital since Tuesday (a week ago, 7/18) so I'm getting pretty familiar with hospital routines.

I hope all is well!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 25, 2023, 12:09:23 PM

Quote from: Gigem on July 25, 2023, 12:02:01 PM

Bit of personal news, been in the hospital since Sunday with diverticulitis.

No Sunday at the park, that’s for sure. About to be released. Wish me luck!

95% of the time this will go away in about a week

heres hoping youre one of those 95%ers

get well

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 25, 2023, 12:09:48 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on July 25, 2023, 11:55:11 AM

What does that term mean 🥴 ? The only way I've heard it used was "you a better META the bookie and pay him or your knee caps will swing the other way"

Not sure if a serious question, but I'll answer. 

(https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=meta)

Quote

[color=rgb(19 79 230 / var(--tw-text-opacity))]meta (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=meta)[/iurl][/size]
[/font][/size][/color]

• (https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=http%3A%2F%2Fmeta.urbanup.com%2F11080521)
• (https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmeta.urbanup.com%2F11080521)

1. [color=rgb(19 79 230 / var(--tw-text-opacity))]Meta[/color] (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Meta)[/size][/iurl] means about the thing itself. It's seeing the thing from a higher perspective instead of from within the thing, like being [color=rgb(19 79 230 / var(--tw-text-opacity))]self-aware[/color] (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=self-aware)[/size][/iurl].

1. There's a lot of bad examples here, so I'll fix those.

[color=rgb(19 79 230 / var(--tw-text-opacity))]Making a movie (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Making a movie)[/iurl] about the film industry isn't meta. Making a movie about making movies is.

Using a [color=rgb(19 79 230 / var(--tw-text-opacity))]footnote[/color] (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=footnote) to explain another footnote isn't meta. Using a footnote to explain what footnotes are is meta.

Metaphysics, probably the most common use of meta, means that instead of talking about the physics of the real world, you're talking about the physics itself (for example, why should there even be gravity).[/i][/font][/size][/color]

Now, in this case the term is meant to refer to the metaverse. Which is basically defined as a virtualized online version of the universe where we can all interact with each other digitally despite not being in the same place physically. Which is kinda a terrible use of the term "meta" because it's not self-referential with respect to the universe. It's just a boring VR video game. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 25, 2023, 12:12:28 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on July 25, 2023, 11:55:11 AM

What does that term mean 🥴 ? The only way I've heard it used was "you a better META the bookie and pay him or your knee caps will swing the other way"

Ya couldnt leave it alone could ya

had to ask what it means

sheeeeesh

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on July 25, 2023, 12:15:42 PM

Thanks for the well wishes. Can’t wait to get out, but I’ll be on a restricted diet for awhile. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 25, 2023, 12:18:05 PM

Quote from: Gigem on July 25, 2023, 12:02:01 PM

Bit of personal news, been in the hospital since Sunday with diverticulitis.

No Sunday at the park, that’s for sure. About to be released. Wish me luck!

Brother had that and it was painful according to him

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 25, 2023, 12:24:48 PM

Anyone see Lebron's son had a cadiac arrest but in stable condition

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 25, 2023, 12:49:41 PM

Brdy of luck to @medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) and @Gigem (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1706) .

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 25, 2023, 01:03:24 PM

Quote from: Gigem on July 25, 2023, 12:15:42 PM

Thanks for the well wishes. Can’t wait to get out, but I’ll be on a restricted diet for awhile.

Get better!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 25, 2023, 04:20:31 PM

Landmark downtown building to become homeless agency's HQ | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/downtown-atl-historic-building-homeless-agency-headquarters-first-look)

Speaking of homeless efforts, this sounds like a good one, to  me, they must have some funding.  I might send some more.

Plans call for turning the 111-year-old Odd Fellows Building at 250 Auburn Avenue into a range of stable housing and the headquarters of Georgia Works (https://georgiaworks.net/), a donor-funded nonprofit that helps homeless men transition into more productive members of society.

According to Invest Atlanta, another component of the renovation would include four retail spaces at street level with below-market leasing rates, an effort to increase Auburn Avenue’s vibrancy and help local businesses.

History | Georgia Works (https://georgiaworks.net/history/)

I read some more and did donate to them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 25, 2023, 06:23:58 PM

There is no Such Thing as Terroir in Beer (https://www.pelliclemag.com/home/2023/6/7/there-is-no-such-thing-as-terroir-in-beer)

Drink a few, then discuss. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 25, 2023, 07:53:26 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 25, 2023, 06:23:58 PM

There is no Such Thing as Terroir in Beer (https://www.pelliclemag.com/home/2023/6/7/there-is-no-such-thing-as-terroir-in-beer)

Drink a few, then discuss.

You know, we have a Beer Thread...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 25, 2023, 07:59:46 PM

Yeah, everyone just stay healthy, please.  Each and every one of you is an important part of this place.  Even __insert name__.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 25, 2023, 09:33:38 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 25, 2023, 07:59:46 PM

Yeah, everyone just stay healthy, please.  Each and every one of you is an important part of this place.  Even __insert name__.

Thanks man, I knew you actually liked me all along.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 26, 2023, 07:29:27 AM

Quote from: utee94 on July 25, 2023, 09:33:38 PM

Thanks man, I knew you actually liked me all along.

(https://i.imgur.com/Q5kI4pi.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2023, 10:11:36 AM

Giuliani concedes he made ‘false’ statements about two Georgia election workers  | The Hill (https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4120295-giuliani-concedes-he-made-false-statements-about-georgia-election-workers/)

I think Rudy has "issues" ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2023, 10:14:31 AM

More say violence could be necessary to restore Trump to White House: survey | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4119386-more-say-violence-could-be-necessary-to-restore-trump-to-white-house-survey/)

The report, titled “Dangers to Democracy” and released by the Chicago Project on Security Threats (CPST) earlier this month, found that 7 percent of Americans from April 6 to June 26 agree that “the use of force is justified to restore Donald Trump  (https://thehill.com/people/donald-trump/)to the presidency.”

I would note that 7% is around the polling number for random comments.  You can ask "Would you rather be paid $10 or $100 for completing this poll?" and get 5-15% saying $10.  They don't read the question or spend any time considering a response.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 26, 2023, 10:23:18 AM

ESPN College GameDay heads to Charlotte, North Carolina for Week 1 this season for UNC's anticipated clash with South Carolina at Bank of America Stadium, the network announced. Earlier this summer, 247Sports predicted every College GameDay location and noted that the Tar Heels and Gamecocks could be the pick by ESPN.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 26, 2023, 10:23:56 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 25, 2023, 06:23:58 PM

There is no Such Thing as Terroir in Beer (https://www.pelliclemag.com/home/2023/6/7/there-is-no-such-thing-as-terroir-in-beer)

Drink a few, then discuss.

Quote from: utee94 on July 25, 2023, 07:53:26 PM

You know, we have a Beer Thread...

But I will say, I pretty much agree with the article, and for all of the reasons outlined.  Making beer is more complex than making wine, and the final product of beer is more complex than wine.  So there's just not much opportunity for terroir to make it all the way through the process, in the same way it does for wine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2023, 10:29:20 AM

Quote from: utee94 on July 26, 2023, 10:23:56 AM

But I will say, I pretty much agree with the article, and for all of the reasons outlined.  Making beer is more complex than making wine, and the final product of beer is more complex than wine.  So there's just not much opportunity for terroir to make it all the way through the process, in the same way it does for wine.

I know you know quite a bit about wine, but I'm not sure I agree, while noting I don't know that much about beer.

Terroir of course is a broad term, you don't grow cab in Burgundy, or pinot noir in hot regions, mostly because of weather factors (which are part of terroir).  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 26, 2023, 11:18:22 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 26, 2023, 10:11:36 AM

Giuliani concedes he made ‘false’ statements about two Georgia election workers  | The Hill (https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4120295-giuliani-concedes-he-made-false-statements-about-georgia-election-workers/)

I think Rudy has "issues" ...

Obviously in a civil complaint there can be a LOT of claims that turn out to not be true... But if even 25% of this is true (https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/ViewDocument?docIndex=ayMPHcCh5eCKqo1g4gB42A==&TSPD_101_R0=08533cd43fab20008fbb656a5d13627d35c9f45bd457ddd0ff2b5fd6c21a9c0f5b951939753f904408fd6985ae143000e7f44e045748c488b24ad3c8e9943e6f430a9a92a6e04473a30e72c74d959bc633ebd8fb090f2982d42a76b1d992b4db), it suggests Rudy has lots of issues.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2023, 11:21:38 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 26, 2023, 11:18:22 AM

Obviously in a civil complaint there can be a LOT of claims that turn out to not be true... But if even 25% of this is true (https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/ViewDocument?docIndex=ayMPHcCh5eCKqo1g4gB42A==&TSPD_101_R0=08533cd43fab20008fbb656a5d13627d35c9f45bd457ddd0ff2b5fd6c21a9c0f5b951939753f904408fd6985ae143000e7f44e045748c488b24ad3c8e9943e6f430a9a92a6e04473a30e72c74d959bc633ebd8fb090f2982d42a76b1d992b4db), it suggests Rudy has lots of issues.

I had a feeling Rudy was suffering from dementia some years ago.  In this case, I think his lawyers contrived a kind of fall back defense, much as Sidney Powell's lawyers claimed "no rational person would believe" what she attested.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 26, 2023, 11:28:51 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 26, 2023, 10:29:20 AM

I know you know quite a bit about wine, but I'm not sure I agree, while noting I don't know that much about beer.

Terroir of course is a broad term, you don't grow cab in Burgundy, or pinot noir in hot regions, mostly because of weather factors (which are part of terroir). 

In general, the ingredients used in beer are much more substantially transformed by the brewing process than grapes in the winemaking process. Those transformations make it a lot harder for any sort of terroir to shine through. 

I can think of some examples, though:

• Very crisp light-colored beers like pilsner or Kolsch. The barley used in these beers is very lightly treated during the malting process relative to any sort of darker malt, and perhaps terroir might be detectable. However, once you start throwing in darker malts, which have more dominant flavor, it will overwhelm any base grain. 
• Beers which are dry-hopped. As the article points out, the same strain of hop (Cascade) will have very different characteristics if grown in the PacNW vs grown in the UK. If you're throwing that in a beer as a bittering agent, it won't matter much. But if you're using that as a dry-hopping ingreadient post-fermentation, differences would be more likely to come through. 
• Spontaneous fermentation beers (such as those mentioned from Belgium) depend on the mix of natural yeast and other organisms in the air where a beer is fermented, and yeast is one of the MOST important determinants of beer flavor. Most beer is fermented with cultured strains of yeast that are maintained and consistent, and won't have terroir. But those few that are based upon spontaneous fermentation will be different depending on where they are brewed, what season they are brewed, etc. 

But as a general rule, beers made from the same recipe in San Diego vs Portland vs Asheville vs Boston will have little to no unique character based upon place, even if they try to source things like malt locally. The ingredients are too homogenized and too transformed to shine through in beer. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2023, 11:35:35 AM

I agree terroir is far less important in beer, I just would have thought making wine was far more complex  than beer.  I suppose it is a tough comparson and subjective.

The range of tastes one can get from wines even made from the same varietal can be extremely large depending on how it is vinified (and terroir of course).  A New Zealand sauvignon blanc if way different from a Sancere or a California or Argentinian wine made differently.  And that's from the same varietal.

Then you have the range of chardonnays that go from a crisp Chablis to an oaky buttery California chard to Champagne, which of course is made quite differently.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 26, 2023, 01:32:43 PM

"Complex" is a difficult term. I would say that the two are both complex, but in VERY different ways. 

That's why I focused on the degree to which the ingredients are transformed in the brewing process relative to winemaking. I think this is a lot of what strips the terroir out of beer. 

Brewing: 

• You're growing barley and possibly other cereal grains. 
• You're malting that barley (allowing it to germinate and then kilning it to stop the germination process). 
• Depending on how you kiln it, you can end up with very pale malt or you can end up with caramelized malt, or roasted malt. The roasted malt in a stout, for example, blows away any mild variation in flavor that you'd have in a pale malt. 
• The malt is then "mashed", meaning immersed in hot water where the enzymes inherent in the malt activate and convert the starchy malt to sugar. 
• The liquid (wort) is pulled out from the mash, and boiled. At this point hops are typically added.
• The hops, ESPECIALLY those added at the beginning of the boil, may be boiled for quite some time, extracting their bitterness and driving off their flavor and aroma. Only the hops added around the very end of the boil, or those added post-boil or post-fermentation (dry hopping), actually retain the flavor and aroma of the varietal. 
• The wort is fermented and becomes beer. 

Winemaking:

• You grow the grapes. 
• You harvest the grapes, press them. They are either immediately removed from the skins (white wine) or they're left on the skins for a little bit (red wine), a couple of days IIRC. 
• The grapes are naturally full of sugar (not starch) so you don't have to boil or otherwise transform them into another form before fermentation.
• You add yeast and let them ferment. 
• Post-ferment, some wines are aged in oak barrels, although some may be done entirely in stainless steel. 
• Tremendous complexity and winemaker interpretation can then be involved in both knowing when the wine is "ready" as well as blending various amounts of wine to achieve an intended flavor profile. 

Thus in beer, the ingredients are significantly transformed at multiple steps of the process (malting, mashing, boiling), which is unnecessary for wine. 

I often suggest beer vs wine is akin to baking vs cooking. Baking is very process-oriented, and cooking is more interpretive. Baking requires quality ingredients, but how much the weather affects flour from wheat grown in Iowa vs Oklahoma, for example, isn't easily evident in the final product. Cooking, in many ways, is about combining ingredients transformed as little as necessary to make them shine. 

Wine is about taking the best grapes, from the places where weather/climate/soil are ideal, doing as little to transform them as possible, and letting them shine. Vintage to vintage, the "same" named wine from the same winery will taste different because the weather is different, so the grapes are different. Brewing is about combining largely standardized ingredients and pushing them through a tightly-controlled process to end up with the same result every time. Year to year, the "same" beer from the same brewery should taste identical. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 26, 2023, 01:43:22 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 26, 2023, 01:32:43 PM

"Complex" is a difficult term. I would say that the two are both complex, but in VERY different ways.

That's why I focused on the degree to which the ingredients are transformed in the brewing process relative to winemaking. I think this is a lot of what strips the terroir out of beer.

Brewing:

• You're growing barley and possibly other cereal grains.
• You're malting that barley (allowing it to germinate and then kilning it to stop the germination process).
• Depending on how you kiln it, you can end up with very pale malt or you can end up with caramelized malt, or roasted malt. The roasted malt in a stout, for example, blows away any mild variation in flavor that you'd have in a pale malt.
• The malt is then "mashed", meaning immersed in hot water where the enzymes inherent in the malt activate and convert the starchy malt to sugar.
• The liquid (wort) is pulled out from the mash, and boiled. At this point hops are typically added.
• The hops, ESPECIALLY those added at the beginning of the boil, may be boiled for quite some time, extracting their bitterness and driving off their flavor and aroma. Only the hops added around the very end of the boil, or those added post-boil or post-fermentation (dry hopping), actually retain the flavor and aroma of the varietal.
• The wort is fermented and becomes beer.

Winemaking:

• You grow the grapes.
• You harvest the grapes, press them. They are either immediately removed from the skins (white wine) or they're left on the skins for a little bit (red wine), a couple of days IIRC.
• The grapes are naturally full of sugar (not starch) so you don't have to boil or otherwise transform them into another form before fermentation.
• You add yeast and let them ferment.
• Post-ferment, some wines are aged in oak barrels, although some may be done entirely in stainless steel.
• Tremendous complexity and winemaker interpretation can then be involved in both knowing when the wine is "ready" as well as blending various amounts of wine to achieve an intended flavor profile.

Thus in beer, the ingredients are significantly transformed at multiple steps of the process (malting, mashing, boiling), which is unnecessary for wine.

I often suggest beer vs wine is akin to baking vs cooking. Baking is very process-oriented, and cooking is more interpretive. Baking requires quality ingredients, but how much the weather affects flour from wheat grown in Iowa vs Oklahoma, for example, isn't easily evident in the final product. Cooking, in many ways, is about combining ingredients transformed as little as necessary to make them shine.

Wine is about taking the best grapes, from the places where weather/climate/soil are ideal, doing as little to transform them as possible, and letting them shine. Vintage to vintage, the "same" named wine from the same winery will taste different because the weather is different, so the grapes are different. Brewing is about combining largely standardized ingredients and pushing them through a tightly-controlled process to end up with the same result every time. Year to year, the "same" beer from the same brewery should taste identical.

Yes to all of this.

And regarding the bit highlighted, this is why my friend Chip who owns and operates the Live Oak Brewery here in Austin, always says that Budweiser is the best brewer on the planet.  Their beers taste identical batch to batch, line to line, site to site, location to location, all around the world.

Not the best BEER in the world, but the best BREWER, for sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 26, 2023, 01:55:42 PM

Quote from: utee94 on July 26, 2023, 01:43:22 PM

Yes to all of this.

And regarding the bit highlighted, this is why my friend Chip who owns and operates the Live Oak Brewery here in Austin, always says that Budweiser is the best brewer on the planet.  Their beers taste identical batch to batch, line to line, site to site, location to location, all around the world.

Not the best BEER in the world, but the best BREWER, for sure.

Yep. 

And highlights a difference. With beer, you're getting malt and hops that are different year-to-year. Malt from one crop may have a different starch content from a previous season. Hops from one season may contain different concentrations of alpha acids. For them, you also add in the variance of rice crops. 

But a brewery like Budweiser is adjusting their process to make those differences invisible. They take different ingredients and aim to make identical beer. Most small craft breweries are trying to adjust to smooth those differences, Budweiser is trying to make them disappear. 

Takes a hell of a lot of science, but it's also a completely different mindset to what a winery is trying to do. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 26, 2023, 02:03:55 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 26, 2023, 01:55:42 PM

Yep.

And highlights a difference. With beer, you're getting malt and hops that are different year-to-year. Malt from one crop may have a different starch content from a previous season. Hops from one season may contain different concentrations of alpha acids. For them, you also add in the variance of rice crops.

The ingredient they should have left out was Dylan Mulvaney

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2023, 02:11:23 PM

Winemaking:

• You grow the grapes.
• You harvest the grapes, press them. They are either immediately removed from the skins (white wine) or they're left on the skins for a little bit (red wine), a couple of days IIRC.
• The grapes are naturally full of sugar (not starch) so you don't have to boil or otherwise transform them into another form before fermentation.
• You add yeast and let them ferment.
• Post-ferment, some wines are aged in oak barrels, although some may be done entirely in stainless steel.
• Tremendous complexity and winemaker interpretation can then be involved in both knowing when the wine is "ready" as well as blending various amounts of wine to achieve an intended flavor profile.

To me, this is pretty over simplified, but it covers the basics.  What about malolactic fermentation?  Secondary fermentation?  Riddling?  Type of oak barrels used and for how long?  Making a rose'?  Which yeast to use?  Which alcohol level to achieve?  What kind of cork to use?  Which pretty label do you pay for?



Four wine makers given the exact same batch of grapes COULD make rather different wines from them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 26, 2023, 02:31:21 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 26, 2023, 02:11:23 PM

Winemaking:

• You grow the grapes.
• You harvest the grapes, press them. They are either immediately removed from the skins (white wine) or they're left on the skins for a little bit (red wine), a couple of days IIRC.
• The grapes are naturally full of sugar (not starch) so you don't have to boil or otherwise transform them into another form before fermentation.
• You add yeast and let them ferment.
• Post-ferment, some wines are aged in oak barrels, although some may be done entirely in stainless steel.
• Tremendous complexity and winemaker interpretation can then be involved in both knowing when the wine is "ready" as well as blending various amounts of wine to achieve an intended flavor profile.

To me, this is pretty over simplified, but it covers the basics.  What about malolactic fermentation?  Secondary fermentation?  Riddling?  Type of oak barrels used and for how long?  Making a rose'?  Which yeast to use?  Which alcohol level to achieve?  What kind of cork to use?  Which pretty label do you pay for?



Four wine makers given the exact same batch of grapes COULD make rather different wines from them.

Variants of all of those are present for brewing as well, and then some.  Bwar kept it VERY simple but a non-exhaustive list includes a variety of top-fermenting yeasts for ales, a variety of bottom-fermenting yeasts for lagers, but then there are brewers that use lager yeasts at ale fermenting temps (steam beers fit here). And there's bottle fermenting.  And there's wild yeasts across all of the farmhouses in Belgium and around the world, but there's also carefully controlled yeasts, there's wet-hopping and dry-hopping, with over 200 varieties of hops that can be used, there's toasted malt, roasted malt, smoked malt, and that malt is typically barley but could be any cereal grain and they all taste different in the final product, there's adjuncts like corn and rice, then there's aged beers in oak barrels, used wine barrels, used whiskey barrels, and there's all kinds of different alcohol level targets from 2% to 20%.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2023, 02:32:36 PM

So, they might use used wine barrels after wine makers dispose of them?  Enough said ...:)

Interesting discussion, I'm learning stuff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 26, 2023, 02:40:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 26, 2023, 02:11:23 PM

To me, this is pretty over simplified, but it covers the basics.  What about malolactic fermentation?  Secondary fermentation?  Riddling?  Type of oak barrels used and for how long?  Making a rose'?  Which yeast to use?  Which alcohol level to achieve?  What kind of cork to use?  Which pretty label do you pay for?

Four wine makers given the exact same batch of grapes COULD make rather different wines from them.

Of course. That's why I moved away from the word "complex" related to the two. There is a TON of complexity involved in winemaking. A ton of interpretation and choice. 

That said, I'm guessing that most winemakers look at winemaking as "how do I let this particular crop of grapes express their qualities in the best way?" 

Most brewers are thinking more of a recipe based on ingredients that are supposed to be homogenized. I don't worry about which state Great Western Malting sourced their Barley, and which farm my Simcoe hops came from. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 26, 2023, 02:48:05 PM

Brewing beer involves more process steps and more ingredients than making wine.

I don't feel it's an insult to wine, to say that the process of beer-making is more complex than the process of wine-making. 

It doesn't mean that the resulting wines don't have tremendous complexity and variety, because obviously they do. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2023, 02:51:54 PM

They seem incomparable to me, really, without a lot of assumptions, both are complex, I'd be fine with letting it go with that.  Can you get a college degree in making beer?  

Obviously, the high end wines are usually produced in situ, they use grapes from the estate (there are exceptions), so the viniculture is a factor as well in terms of how the grape are grown and tended.  They have experts just for that part of their equation.  If all the hops and barleys are about the same thing, it's not the case with wine obviously.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 26, 2023, 02:53:07 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 26, 2023, 02:51:54 PM

They seem incomparable to me, really, without a lot of assumptions, both are complex, I'd be fine with letting it go with that.  Can you get a college degree in making beer? 

Obviously, the high end wines are usually produced in situ, they use grapes from the estate (there are exceptions), so the viniculture is a factor as well in terms of how the grape are grown and tended.  They have experts just for that part of their equation.  If all the hops and barleys are about the same thing, it's not the case with wine obviously.

Probably.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 26, 2023, 02:55:01 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 26, 2023, 02:32:36 PM

So, they might use used wine barrels after wine makers dispose of them?  Enough said ...:)

Interesting discussion, I'm learning stuff.

For example, here are some recipes of award-winning American IPAs. So bear in mind this is just ONE subcategory (American IPA) of ONE style of beer (IPA). 

https://byo.com/article/awardwinning-ipa-recipes/

You can see a lot of different malts, a lot of different hop amounts and hopping schedules.

You can also see things like a single recipe giving a choice of yeast. I.e. you can use Wyeast 1056, White Labs WLP001, or SafAle US-05 yeast. It's the same strain of yeast, cultured and maintained by three different companies. With two being liquid yeast and one being dry yeast. The beer should turn out the same whichever you use. 

In homebrew competition, judging is based upon the Beer Judges Certification Program style guidelines (https://www.bjcp.org/download/2021_Guidelines_Beer.pdf). They have 34 different "styles" for judging, with as few as 2 subcategories under each style and as many as a half-dozen or more. Although some of those styles like Specialty Beer are a sort of catch-all for things that don't fit elsewhere, and others like Fruit Beer is usually referring to variants of another established style, but with an addition like fruit. 

Beer is pretty much FAR more variable in styles and flavors than wine... Many argue that this variability means there is a lot more optionality and variability in trying to do a gastronomic "beer pairing dinner" than trying to pair wine with food.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 26, 2023, 02:57:11 PM

The head-gear picks will go ahead as scheduled this fall, as legendary college football analyst Lee Corso will be on site for the start of the 2023 season when ESPN's College GameDay kicks off in Week 1, the network announced.

ESPN said that College GameDay will premier this season from Charlotte, N.C., where North Carolina and South Carolina will renew their rivalry in the regular season opener, the first stop for the long-time show, which will once again feature Corso as a full-time analyst and game picker for this season.

Rece Davis will resume his position as the host of College GameDay, with analysis from Kirk Herbstreit, Desmond Howard, and Pat McAfee. College football insider Pete Thamel will provide news updates, and Jen Lada and Jess Sims will be featured as reporters.


Corso, 87, missed five editions of College GameDay last season, first on Oct. 1 in Clemson when he woke up feeling unwell, and then again for the Kansas trip the following weekend.

Corso also missed the show's visit to Jackson State and the clash between Georgia and Tennessee, when GameDay was in Athens, Ga.

A featured analyst on the GameDay program since its inception in 1987, Corso suffered a stroke in 2009, suffering partial paralysis, and requiring three days of intensive care followed by a week's stay in the hospital.

The stroke impacted Corso's speech, as he was unable to talk for a month after the incident. Since returning to the air, he has been scripting his appearances on the program.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 26, 2023, 02:57:38 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 26, 2023, 02:51:54 PM

They seem incomparable to me, really, without a lot of assumptions, both are complex, I'd be fine with letting it go with that.  Can you get a college degree in making beer? 

Obviously, the high end wines are usually produced in situ, they use grapes from the estate (there are exceptions), so the viniculture is a factor as well in terms of how the grape are grown and tended.  They have experts just for that part of their equation.  If all the hops and barleys are about the same thing, it's not the case with wine obviously.

Yes. UC-Davis has a very well known brewing program. 

https://brewing.ucdavis.edu/academic-programs/undergraduate

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2023, 03:06:44 PM

Maybe I'll go back to school ... but I was playing pool ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 26, 2023, 03:15:19 PM

steal your daddy's cue?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2023, 05:21:56 PM

I mailed a letter to my kid in Columbus two weeks ago.  Yesterday, he got an email from USPS that the letter would arrive today, two weeks later.  It didn't.  He gets an email showing the mail he's supposed to receive the next day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on July 27, 2023, 05:32:45 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 27, 2023, 05:21:56 PM

I mailed a letter to my kid in Columbus two weeks ago.  Yesterday, he got an email from USPS that the letter would arrive today, two weeks later.  It didn't.  He gets an email showing the mail he's supposed to receive the next day.

I have that feature. I don’t know why I like it, but I kind of do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2023, 06:08:29 PM

We got word a few days ago that a transformer outside our building is running hot and they have to replace it, tonight, hopefully for 6-8 hours as promised, so we'll have no power.  I'm running the temperature inside down now in prep.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2023, 06:46:26 PM

I survived my second pilates reformer session, and my fifth pitching session with Pete.  

The technique of pitching reminds me (and him) a lot of golf, you have to commit a bunch of things to muscle memory so you can focus on one thing, which is location.  It's important in real estate I hear.

My release has been awful for 60 years I'd guess, and it's tough to correct it.  I focus on that and then my arm angle is wrong, or my weight is wrong, or balance is off, or follow through is off ...

I am throwing a pretty decent slider now and change up.  Of course, a change up for me is, well, pretty slow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 27, 2023, 06:48:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 27, 2023, 06:08:29 PM

We got word a few days ago that a transformer outside our building is running hot and they have to replace it, tonight, hopefully for 6-8 hours as promised, so we'll have no power.  I'm running the temperature inside down now in prep.

at least you got a warning

around here the first anyone knows a transformer is in trouble is when it blows sky high

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2023, 06:49:55 PM

Yeah, I was slightly surprised, and then they claim to fix it at night.  So, I'm somewhat impressed.

Of course, it's directly below our bedroom, so the noise could be a thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 28, 2023, 05:23:39 AM

They got the power back on a bit ahead of time, great, but I can't get either AC compressor to engage. 

So, I cycled them several times and one is working now.  Cool air is almost as useful as hot water.  we watched them last night for a bit prepping the site etc., it's right below us, they were scurrying around quite a bit.  They opened the old transformer and pulled out three good sized "pins" which I gather conducted the current from A to B, and pulled out some other stuff.  We got tired and went to sleep, woke up at 4 when the power kicked back on.  The new transformer is quite a bit larger than the old, both sat on the ground, the new one is about 3 feet cubed I'd guess?  They told us our building and the one next door were impacted, so perhaps 200 units?  

I wonder what the population distribution would be without Mr. Carrier.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 28, 2023, 09:16:13 AM

https://www.realtor.com/news/trends/the-housing-shortage-has-hit-crisis-levels/?utm_source=ExactTarget&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=mnw-072823

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 28, 2023, 09:18:06 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 27, 2023, 06:49:55 PM

Yeah, I was slightly surprised, and then they claim to fix it at night.  So, I'm somewhat impressed.

Of course, it's directly below our bedroom, so the noise could be a thing.

Does your HOA permit you to have a portable generator on your balcony?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 28, 2023, 09:24:31 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 28, 2023, 09:18:06 AM

Does your HOA permit you to have a portable generator on your balcony?

I have three now, if you need one! :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 28, 2023, 09:25:57 AM

We have a whole-house 24KW monster. And we needed it 10 months ago. We also have a 6.5KW as a backup to the backup. We're good.

:)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 28, 2023, 09:31:49 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 28, 2023, 09:18:06 AM

Does your HOA permit you to have a portable generator on your balcony?

Nope, not at all, no gas grill, no gas anything.  We have a backup diesel generator but it only powers the elevators and emergency lighting and security elements.  We don't seem to lose power often at all, and when it happens it's over in 30 minutes usually.  I'd guess we lose power once a year?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 28, 2023, 09:39:42 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on July 28, 2023, 09:16:13 AM

https://www.realtor.com/news/trends/the-housing-shortage-has-hit-crisis-levels/?utm_source=ExactTarget&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=mnw-072823

Yep, it's a big problem and it all be traced to the pandemic.

Printing money, inflation, high interest, supply chain. It all adds up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 28, 2023, 10:11:48 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 27, 2023, 05:21:56 PM

I mailed a letter to my kid in Columbus two weeks ago.  Yesterday, he got an email from USPS that the letter would arrive today, two weeks later.  It didn't.  He gets an email showing the mail he's supposed to receive the next day.

I ordered a dumbbell rack from Amazon on 7/12, and since I was going out of town for a few days picked the non-Prime delivery date of 7/21. On 7/20 they told me it was shipped, via USPS, and Amazon's tracking says "the carrier has picked up the package". USPS's tracking says "USPS currently awaiting package." It's been like that ever since. 

It got to be long enough that Amazon allowed me to request a refund yesterday, and I re-ordered with Prime next-day delivery and already have a tracking number with an Amazon delivery company, not USPS. I trust that it will ACTUALLY show up today. 

I don't trust USPS.



(https://i.imgur.com/H7yogug.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on July 28, 2023, 11:09:36 AM

New buses apparently run over a mil each.

MARTA pushes forward three transit projects around Atlanta, DeKalb | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/marta-three-transit-projects-atl-dekalb-approved)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 28, 2023, 03:46:01 PM

The Russian Mafia is “furious” with Vladimir Putin and reportedly looking to kill the Russian leader over his “disastrous” war against Ukraine, RadarOnline.com has exclusively learned.

In a shocking development to come 17 months after Putin’s forces first invaded Ukraine in February 2022, the Russian leader has seemingly found himself in the crosshairs of the dangerous Russian mob.


According to one international intelligence agent who spoke exclusively to RadarOnline.com, Putin is “bad for business” and “must go.”

“He has cut off the oligarchs and their criminal associates from legitimate and underground dealings with Ukraine, the rest of Europe, and the United States,” the source told us. “They’re furious.”

Even more shocking was the international intelligence agent’s claim that the Russian Mafia has already tried to kill Putin on at least three separate occasions.

“Twice, they tried to take out his car in a motorcade with RPG grenades and missed,” the insider spilled. “Another attempt involved rigging an elevator Putin was due to enter but didn’t.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on July 28, 2023, 05:44:17 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on July 28, 2023, 09:16:13 AM

https://www.realtor.com/news/trends/the-housing-shortage-has-hit-crisis-levels/?utm_source=ExactTarget&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=mnw-072823

makes sense when you think about it.

I think I read something that 92% of Americans who own homes currently have mortgages locked in at rates under 6%.

61% have rates locked in at under 4%.

23% have rates locked in at under 3%.

So that's about 84% of all Americans with rates at 4% or less. The going rate right now is what, 7.7 - 8%? Basically double the rates of what 84% currently have. Why on earth would anyone sell their home to turn around and buy a new house that will just cost more per sq ft than what they paid and with an interest rate that is double. No one would. And no one is.

This doesn't even take into account any of the many problems builders are having delivering new construction homes due to rising costs, labor & supply shortages/crunches, people deciding to Airbnb/VBRO second and third homes instead of selling them like they would have done in the past (tools/options that didn't exist for them 10-15 years ago), or with private equity buying up single family homes in the most desirable markets in order to rent them thereby bypassing them off the market.

All this crap has lead to record low supply on the market and well when all the dollars are chasing the same little supply- prices get pushed up up up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 28, 2023, 06:31:23 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on July 28, 2023, 05:44:17 PM

makes sense when you think about it.

I think I read something that 92% of Americans who own homes currently have mortgages locked in at rates under 6%.

61% have rates locked in at under 4%.

23% have rates locked in at under 3%.

So that's about 84% of all Americans with rates at 4% or less. The going rate right now is what, 7.7 - 8%? Basically double the rates of what 84% currently have. Why on earth would anyone sell their home to turn around and buy a new house that will just cost more per sq ft than what they paid and with an interest rate that is double. No one would. And no one is.

This doesn't even take into account any of the many problems builders are having delivering new construction homes due to rising costs, labor & supply shortages/crunches, people deciding to Airbnb/VBRO second and third homes instead of selling them like they would have done in the past (tools/options that didn't exist for them 10-15 years ago), or with private equity buying up single family homes in the most desirable markets in order to rent them thereby bypassing them off the market.

All this crap has lead to record low supply on the market and well when all the dollars are chasing the same little supply- prices get pushed up up up.

Facts. We would consider moving - our income is up and our oldest daughter will graduate soon. But our rate is 2.5 and everything is about double what was on the market when we bought 6 years ago. So lol hell no. I just need Biden to increase immigration so we can get a remodel for a competitive price and done on time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 29, 2023, 07:58:07 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on July 28, 2023, 06:31:23 PM

Facts. We would consider moving - our income is up and our oldest daughter will graduate soon. But our rate is 2.5 and everything is about double what was on the market when we bought 6 years ago. So lol hell no. I just need Biden to increase immigration so we can get a remodel for a competitive price and done on time.

Have you seen the quality of construction in Mexico? ;)


Heck, even in Cabo's most luxurious area where we stay you can see the way the cobble things together.

Oh, and they work REALLY slow. We've been watching one house being built for the last two times we were there. Maybe this time it will be done. We go every January.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on July 29, 2023, 08:33:31 AM

The oldest continuously operating brewery in the world is located at Weihenstephan Abbey in Bavaria, Germany. The Benedictine monks at Weihenstephan began brewing beer in 1040 AD.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 29, 2023, 09:02:26 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 29, 2023, 08:33:31 AM

The oldest continuously operating brewery in the world is located at Weihenstephan Abbey in Bavaria, Germany. The Benedictine monks at Weihenstephan began brewing beer in 1040 AD.

Been there :72:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on July 29, 2023, 03:08:28 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on July 28, 2023, 06:31:23 PM

Facts. We would consider moving - our income is up and our oldest daughter will graduate soon. But our rate is 2.5 and everything is about double what was on the market when we bought 6 years ago. So lol hell no. I just need Biden to increase immigration so we can get a remodel for a competitive price and done on time.

There are already plenty of unlicensed illegal immigrants that will do a super shitty job for you on your remodel without pulling permits and for dirt cheap. Hang around any Home Depot and you'll find them. You'll most likely wind up having to tear shit out and re-do it again, but hey you'll get a deal.

I laugh that people actually think Democrats differ from Republicans in any substantial way. They are virtually the same, and many times they are actually worse. It's all talking points, demagoguery, political theater, and optics. Biden is not pro immigration nor has he ever been. When people show you who they are, believe them. And Biden has shown his ass for 50 years. He's a racist white supremacist at his core- this is the same man who partnered with reprehensible people like Jesse Helms and voted down federal funding of desegregating of schools via busing children and blathered on about not wanting his kids to grow up in a "racial jungle"- the same man who told black people they aren't black if they don't vote for him- which is ironic as all hell considering he wrote bill after bill after bill which devastated the Black community and locked up mostly brown and black inner city Americans for petty drug possession crimes. Crimes which fitting of destiny or irony or both- his own crack head failure of a son has broken a hundred thousand times over and never served a day in a jail cell over. Biden has not and will not increase immigration. His administration has bloated an already despicable heinous wasteful useless DHS (and therefore ICE's) budget by $6.5 billion per year (nearly $1 billion of which said increase will go directly to ICE) and his administration has already deported more people than the Trump administration I believe. Remember, this was a guy who was VP of the Obama administration that deported twice as many people in it's first term as Trump did in his sole term.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 29, 2023, 03:13:43 PM

MDot-I bet if I met you in person I could get you to come out of your shell and say what you really think.  😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on July 29, 2023, 03:16:44 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on July 29, 2023, 03:13:43 PM

MDot-I bet if I met you in person I could get you to come out of your shell and say what you really think.  😂😂

Ive said it before he would fit right in the middle sixties war protesters movement

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on July 29, 2023, 03:29:24 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on July 29, 2023, 03:08:28 PM

There are already plenty of unlicensed illegal immigrants that will do a super shitty job for you on your remodel without pulling permits and for dirt cheap. Hang around any Home Depot and you'll find them. You'll most likely wind up having to tear shit out and re-do it again, but hey you'll get a deal.

I laugh that people actually think Democrats differ from Republicans in any substantial way. They are virtually the same, and many times they are actually worse. It's all talking points, demagoguery, political theater, and optics. Biden is not pro immigration nor has he ever been. When people show you who they are, believe them. And Biden has shown his ass for 50 years. He's a racist white supremacist at his core- this is the same man who partnered with reprehensible people like Jesse Helms and voted down federal funding of desegregating of schools via busing children and blathered on about not wanting his kids to grow up in a "racial jungle"- the same man who told black people they aren't black if they don't vote for him- which is ironic as all hell considering he wrote bill after bill after bill which devastated the Black community and locked up mostly brown and black inner city Americans for petty drug possession crimes. Crimes which fitting of destiny or irony or both- his own crack head failure of a son has broken a hundred thousand times over and never served a day in a jail cell over. Biden has not and will not increase immigration. His administration has bloated an already despicable heinous wasteful useless DHS (and therefore ICE's) budget by $6.5 billion per year (nearly $1 billion of which said increase will go directly to ICE) and his administration has already deported more people than the Trump administration I believe. Remember, this was a guy who was VP of the Obama administration that deported twice as many people in it's first term as Trump did in his sole term.

I know. Both parties seem intent on gumming up the economy to placate idiots. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 29, 2023, 03:33:34 PM

Eh, decent rant, but as a product of "desegregation via busing" I can declare that stupid-ass experiment to be a complete failure, and an extremely costly one.  I support anyone and everyone who voted against it. Let's go, Biden!

Racism is bad.  Busing was a total failure at addressing it.

Won't comment on the rest of the content of the rant, but I will never allow an opportunity to blast the dumbshittery that was busing, to pass.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 29, 2023, 05:52:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on July 28, 2023, 05:23:39 AM

They got the power back on a bit ahead of time, great, but I can't get either AC compressor to engage.

So, I cycled them several times and one is working now.  Cool air is almost as useful as hot water.  we watched them last night for a bit prepping the site etc., it's right below us, they were scurrying around quite a bit.  They opened the old transformer and pulled out three good sized "pins" which I gather conducted the current from A to B, and pulled out some other stuff.  We got tired and went to sleep, woke up at 4 when the power kicked back on.  The new transformer is quite a bit larger than the old, both sat on the ground, the new one is about 3 feet cubed I'd guess?  They told us our building and the one next door were impacted, so perhaps 200 units? 

I wonder what the population distribution would be without Mr. Carrier.

In the 1940 census (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1940_United_States_census) Georgia’s population was just over 3M and Florida's was under 2M. By comparison, Ohio's population was substantially more than GA and FL combined. 

In the most recent census (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_census) Florida is the third most populous state and Georgia is 8th, immediately behind Ohio and gaining. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on July 29, 2023, 07:15:34 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on July 29, 2023, 08:33:31 AM

The oldest continuously operating brewery in the world is located at Weihenstephan Abbey in Bavaria, Germany. The Benedictine monks at Weihenstephan began brewing beer in 1040 AD.

They have the best Hefe Weissbier and Festbier also
:singing:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 31, 2023, 10:29:11 AM

The numbers don't lie.

1 in 4 U.S. homebuyers want to move to a different city—here's the No. 1 place they're looking (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/1-in-4-u-s-homebuyers-want-to-move-to-a-different-city-here-s-the-no-1-place-they-re-looking/ar-AA1ey3cg?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=c0382cac5fa546e798bdb89df251b93d&ei=11)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on July 31, 2023, 10:56:04 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on July 29, 2023, 05:52:31 PM

In the 1940 census (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1940_United_States_census) Georgia’s population was just over 3M and Florida's was under 2M. By comparison, Ohio's population was substantially more than GA and FL combined.

In the most recent census (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_census) Florida is the third most populous state and Georgia is 8th, immediately behind Ohio and gaining.

Give it a few more years. Georgia will pass Ohio soon enough.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on July 31, 2023, 10:56:10 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on July 28, 2023, 06:31:23 PM

Facts. We would consider moving - our income is up and our oldest daughter will graduate soon. But our rate is 2.5 and everything is about double what was on the market when we bought 6 years ago. So lol hell no. I just need Biden to increase immigration so we can get a remodel for a competitive price and done on time.

We beat the mortage rate increase somewhat.  We sold out 5 bedroom house  (almost double what we paid for it 3 years earlier)with a 3.25 mortgage.  Couldn't have touch a similar house, but we downsized and built a 2 bedroom house for about what we originally bought our 5 bedroom for and have a 4.5% mortgage. No way we would have sold our house with the housing prices, increasing mortgage rates if we weren't downsizing and substantially lowered the amount we mortgages. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on July 31, 2023, 11:04:10 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 31, 2023, 10:29:11 AM

The numbers don't lie.

1 in 4 U.S. homebuyers want to move to a different city—here's the No. 1 place they're looking (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/1-in-4-u-s-homebuyers-want-to-move-to-a-different-city-here-s-the-no-1-place-they-re-looking/ar-AA1ey3cg?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=c0382cac5fa546e798bdb89df251b93d&ei=11)

makes sense. 9 out of top 10 most desired new cities people want to move to....red states (typically tax & biz friendly) in the sun belt (nice weather). 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on July 31, 2023, 11:07:36 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 29, 2023, 07:58:07 AM

Have you seen the quality of construction in Mexico? ;)


Heck, even in Cabo's most luxurious area where we stay you can see the way the cobble things together.

Oh, and they work REALLY slow. We've been watching one house being built for the last two times we were there. Maybe this time it will be done. We go every January.

speaking in generalities and from own experience- obviously don't mean to paint them all this way- but in general in my experience the mexicans in construction in the US in general work very hard (harder than the white people), they'll get shit done and on time and charge less for their labor....but most of the time the quality of their work kinda fkn sucks. It's definitely not great. And as in everything in life- you most definitely get what you pay for.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on July 31, 2023, 11:19:48 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on July 29, 2023, 03:29:24 PM

I know. Both parties seem intent on gumming up the economy to placate idiots.

both parties have rigged the economy in order to serve their multi-national corporate donor masters. this has been going on for 40 years. it's nothing new. and the entire thing is such a rigged con man ponzi scheme of epic proportions there is no way for them to do anything but continually gum it up in order to try and keep the house of cards from collapsing.

mass immigration from Mexico and Central America into the US is largely a byproduct of things like NAFTA & CAFTA. We did not have this insane wave of illegal immigration from Mexico or Central America until after those "free trade agreements" (investors rights agreements) were passed. Why? NAFTA & CAFTA allowed big US agribusiness to go into those countries and literally wipe out the small farmers & ranchers and all the farm hands who worked for them in all the pueblos. And it was a chain reaction which affected every other interconnected local business/industry from rail to retail. Wiped millions of working people in those countries the fk out which put insane pressure on them to flee to the US in order to find opportunity to make money.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on July 31, 2023, 02:06:28 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/94qQlbC.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2023, 12:32:22 PM

Coming to Atlanta's largest greenspace: world-class mountain bike park | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/westside-park-mountain-biking-park-pump-track-first-look)

Ever hear of a "pump track"???

So what is a pump track? BikeTips (https://biketips.com/what-is-a-pump-track/) defines them as looped circuits of “banked corners and smooth rollers—plus any other features riders might want to throw in” designed so riders are powered by their own momentum (i.e., pumping the bike) with no pedaling required.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 02, 2023, 12:44:56 PM

Money saving tips for Southwest Florida gas hike (winknews.com) (https://winknews.com/2023/08/01/gas-saving-tips-southwest-florida/)


Prices up $0.50 since last month. How are your prices doing around the US?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 02, 2023, 12:53:14 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 02, 2023, 12:44:56 PM

Money saving tips for Southwest Florida gas hike (winknews.com) (https://winknews.com/2023/08/01/gas-saving-tips-southwest-florida/)


Prices up $0.50 since last month. How are your prices doing around the US?

Haven't noticed much change here. Typically buy at Costco. We were sitting around 4.55 and I think the last time I was there (Friday) it was 4.75, but we certainly haven't seen a 0.50 rise. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 02, 2023, 02:09:13 PM

US Average Regular Gas Price Comparison by State (gasbuddy.com) (https://www.gasbuddy.com/usa)

Seems almost every state is seeing a rise.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 02, 2023, 02:30:31 PM

It's still right around $3 here.  $2.95-$3.10 is what I'm seeing around my hood.

For those that don't know, that Gasbuddy site that bf linked is really helpful when looking for the cheapest gas around you (or, when there are shortages, for the ONLY gas around you).  There's also a Gasbuddy app for you phone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 02, 2023, 02:34:11 PM

Greenpeace report finds most plastic goes to landfills as production ramps up : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2022/10/24/1131131088/recycling-plastic-is-practically-impossible-and-the-problem-is-getting-worse)

A lot of energy is being wasted here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 02, 2023, 02:47:35 PM

Was 3.09 monday went up and now at 3.19 in Cleveland. Burbs add another 30-50 cents

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 02, 2023, 06:27:22 PM

On the brighter side it won't be long before the OktoberFest beers are out.That enticing dark orange color malty, with toasty autumn flavors perfect for the season will be cascading over my receptive buds

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 02, 2023, 08:16:05 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 02, 2023, 06:27:22 PM

On the brighter side it won't be long before the OktoberFest beers are out.That enticing dark orange color malty, with toasty autumn flavors perfect for the season will be cascading over my receptive buds

Already saw several at the grocery store.  I love the flavor, but 105 degrees is a little too warm for Fest.  I'll give it a month.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 02, 2023, 09:06:58 PM

I have no idea what gas prices are doing, because it's irrelevant to me.  I fill up when I'm empty.  The price doesn't affect that at all.  
Because it's a need.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 03, 2023, 08:33:25 AM

It's relevant to a lot of people.

We're at $3.88 here, for regular. 91 is $4.38, which is what we need.

These are WaWa prices. They are generally the cheapest.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 03, 2023, 08:57:04 AM

Prices are up a decent bit here. Maybe $.30 or $.40 a gallon.

Interestingly, the price of the bread I usually buy has dropped, which is unusual. And for some reason flight prices are down considerably. Not sure if that’s a seasonal thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2023, 10:00:49 AM

South Dakota broke the record for the lowest unemployment rate in the U.S., registering 1.8 percent in June.

The state shares the new record with New Hampshire. The national jobless rate in June was 3.6 percent, down from 3.7 percent the previous month and the same as a year ago.

The unemployment rate for the Sioux Falls metro area in June was unchanged at 1.7 percent – its record-tying low and the lowest in the country along with four metropolitan areas in New England.


The state has more than 24,000 job openings, according to a news release from the governor’s office.

In June, Gov. Kristi Noem started a Freedom Works Here national workforce recruitment advertising campaign, leading to more than 3,500 applicants by late July, according to the governor’s office. Of those, 675 are in the final stages of moving to South Dakota. The most applications have come from California at 603, Texas at 260, Florida at 245, Minnesota at 208 and New York at 148.

This month, the Labor Department is offering help to businesses and those working for jobs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 03, 2023, 10:54:32 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 03, 2023, 08:33:25 AM

It's relevant to a lot of people.

We're at $3.88 here, for regular. 91 is $4.38, which is what we need.

These are WaWa prices. They are generally the cheapest.

Well, it might be relevant, but for many, short-term fluctuations in gas prices aren't very actionable. 

Higher prices can be addressed in multiple ways:

• Drive less (or carpool, or use annoying af strategies like hypermiling).
• Drive the same amount, economize elsewhere. 
• Ride it out with higher monthly costs hoping it drops.

I left off "buy a higher mpg vehicle" because while that might have long-term benefit, it usually doesn't pencil out for seasonal or short-term price jumps. 

But OAM's point is that for MANY people in this world, driving is a necessity for work, school, childcare, daily life, etc. Many have limited ability to reduce their overall monthly mileage. For those people, it doesn't matter what the cost is, because you simply have to pay it. It's relevant in that you feel it in the pocketbook, but not relevant in that there's much you can do about it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2023, 11:04:42 AM

Make sure your tires are properly inflated, drive a bit slower and smoother, avoid use of AC when possible, park in shade ...

Normal gas stations here are $3.50 to $3.99 (near the freeways).  I don't know where Costco is now, probably $3.30.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 03, 2023, 11:06:39 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 03, 2023, 10:54:32 AM

Well, it might be relevant, but for many, short-term fluctuations in gas prices aren't very actionable.

Higher prices can be addressed in multiple ways:

• Drive less (or carpool, or use annoying af strategies like hypermiling).
• Drive the same amount, economize elsewhere.
• Ride it out with higher monthly costs hoping it drops.

I left off "buy a higher mpg vehicle" because while that might have long-term benefit, it usually doesn't pencil out for seasonal or short-term price jumps.

But OAM's point is that for MANY people in this world, driving is a necessity for work, school, childcare, daily life, etc. Many have limited ability to reduce their overall monthly mileage. For those people, it doesn't matter what the cost is, because you simply have to pay it. It's relevant in that you feel it in the pocketbook, but not relevant in that there's much you can do about it.

If you're paycheck to paycheck, it matters.

It certainly doesn't affect me (or probably any of us here) at all, but it matters to some.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 03, 2023, 11:10:10 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 03, 2023, 11:04:42 AM

Make sure your tires are properly inflated, drive a bit slower and smoother, avoid use of AC when possible, park in shade ...

Normal gas stations here are $3.50 to $3.99 (near the freeways).  I don't know where Costco is now, probably $3.30.

Ha!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 03, 2023, 11:16:48 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 03, 2023, 11:04:42 AM

avoid use of AC when possible

BTW one change that occurred over the last maybe decade+ is that due to aerodynamic drag, it's now more efficient for most cars (I assume at highway speed) to operate with the windows closed and the AC on, than the AC off and the windows open. 

I don't have data on it, but my guess would be that around-town driving is far more affected by the constant acceleration/deceleration than running the AC. 

So I highly doubt the use of AC makes much of a dent either way. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2023, 11:19:21 AM

AC doesn't these days, but around town it might save 0.2 mpg or so, maybe, not at freeway speeds.

Driving smoothly probably makes more difference.  i routinely see a red light ahead of me and other drivers seem to race to it and then hit the brakes, often when I get there the light is green and I don't have to stop.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 03, 2023, 11:32:06 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 03, 2023, 11:19:21 AM

AC doesn't these days, but around town it might save 0.2 mpg or so, maybe, not at freeway speeds.

Driving smoothly probably makes more difference.  i routinely see a red light ahead of me and other drivers seem to race to it and then hit the brakes, often when I get there the light is green and I don't have to stop.

Yeah, if you really want to conserve gas, you should be looking into hypermiling. 

Just be aware that everyone else on the road will want to kill you, slowly, and painfully. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 03, 2023, 11:35:07 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 03, 2023, 11:32:06 AM

Yeah, if you really want to conserve gas, you should be looking into hypermiling.

Just be aware that everyone else on the road will want to kill you, slowly, and painfully.

yeah I used to work with a guy who drove like that. He was an extremist.  I went to lunch one day with him, in his car, and it was  the first and last time I ever did THAT.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2023, 01:38:21 PM

PS At ATL: New Private Luxury Airport Facility - One Mile at a Time (https://onemileatatime.com/news/ps-atl-private-airport-facility/)

I  guess there is a market for this?

You can also become a member of PS, which costs $4,850 per year, and then you can expect to pay:

• $750 per person to use The Salon
• $3,550 for up to four people to use a Private Suite

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 03, 2023, 02:59:38 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 03, 2023, 01:38:21 PM

PS At ATL: New Private Luxury Airport Facility - One Mile at a Time (https://onemileatatime.com/news/ps-atl-private-airport-facility/)

I  guess there is a market for this?

You can also become a member of PS, which costs $4,850 per year, and then you can expect to pay:

• $750 per person to use The Salon
• $3,550 for up to four people to use a Private Suite

people who have a lot of $$$$ but not quite private jet $$$$? Idk. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2023, 09:34:55 PM

I'd rather charter the jet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2023, 10:52:57 PM

Well crap

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 04, 2023, 08:07:48 AM

Prices are still well under where they were a year ago. However, the national average price for a gallon of regular gasoline hovered at $3.82 on Thursday, up 11 cents from a week ago and up nearly 30 cents from a month ago, according to data from AAA. One year ago, the national average sat at $4.16.

The cost of crude oil, which accounts for nearly half of what consumers pay at the pump, shot up $11 per barrel over the last month, Lipow Oil Associates President Andy Lipow said.

For instance, on June 26, prices were at $69.37. As of Thursday, they are around $80, which "is equivalent to a 26 cent per gallon rise in gasoline raw material costs," Lipow told FOX Business.

He blamed the uptick in part on the heat index. In extremely hot temperatures, refineries "must cut their production rates and that impacts gasoline and diesel supply," Lipow said.

At first, "refineries boil the crude oil into various fractions that are then upgraded at a variety of processing units into gasoline, jet fuel and diesel fuel," according to Lipow. However, at some point, that oil will need to be cooled down.

"The hotter it is outside, the harder it is to cool it down and have the equipment working properly," he said.

Refineries in Southern Europe, Greece and Italy have also been affected by hot weather. This means that when they process less crude oil, less gasoline is available for export to the U.S.

Lipow also pointed out that several refineries on the Gulf, East and West Coasts had unscheduled outages, which further limits supply.

"Some refineries also depend on their local utilities for electricity. If those utilities trip offline, the refineries can lose power and that affects gasoline and diesel supply," Lipow added.

Supply issues don't appear to be easing either, all while demand is up compared with a year ago, according to the Energy Information Administration (EIA). Demand is up 3% compared with a year ago, according to EIA data.

Since October 2022, OPEC+ announced substantial production cuts from its quota that equate to more than 5 million barrels per day.


Meanwhile, 450,000 barrels per day of Kurdish oil has been taken off the market since the end of March as a result of disputes between the Kurds and the Turkish government, according to Lipow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 04, 2023, 12:01:50 PM

Here in Houston reg goes for $3.00 to $3.30 / gal

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 04, 2023, 12:30:59 PM

yeah so finally saw the movie Oppenheimer. thought it was terrific. is there are a better director in the game at the moment than Christopher Nolan? cause I don't think so. maybe Tarantino? if there is, it's a really short list.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 04, 2023, 12:40:51 PM

Nolan does the big movies really well.  

I tend to like the smaller, more quirky, Indie-type films, so I rate Wes Anderson ahead of Nolan.  But I enjoy the work of both.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 04, 2023, 12:50:14 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 04, 2023, 12:40:51 PM

Nolan does the big movies really well. 

I tend to like the smaller, more quirky, Indie-type films, so I rate Wes Anderson ahead of Nolan.  But I enjoy the work of both.

Wes Anderson is a good choice, he's definitely up there imo. 

I think it's really hard to do the big movies really well. Much easier to screw those up than the smaller ones. Nolan's movies really are just beautiful for lack of a better word- the camera shots and the colors- visually stunning- and the music in his movies are terrific as well. Also love that he hates CGI and will try to do practical effects and large scale stunts in a day and age where 99.9% of big budget Hollywood movies are like 99.9% CGI. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 04, 2023, 04:12:53 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 04, 2023, 12:50:14 PM

Wes Anderson is a good choice, he's definitely up there imo.

I think it's really hard to do the big movies really well. Much easier to screw those up than the smaller ones. Nolan's movies really are just beautiful for lack of a better word- the camera shots and the colors- visually stunning- and the music in his movies are terrific as well. Also love that he hates CGI and will try to do practical effects and large scale stunts in a day and age where 99.9% of big budget Hollywood movies are like 99.9% CGI.

I think this is true, but not based on style, but rather based on pressure and expectations and environment.  So on this I agree with you 100%, Nolan knows exactly how to do the big movie.  If I were a major studio investing hundreds of millions, he's absolutely my #1 go-to guy.  He just gets it, and isn't going to make any mistakes.  He's going to make big beautiful movie and protect your investment at the same time.  That's extremely rare in the industry.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2023, 04:55:52 PM

The ESPN web site now has NCAAF on the top line for clicking.

I clicked.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 04, 2023, 05:15:07 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 04, 2023, 04:12:53 PM

I think this is true, but not based on style, but rather based on pressure and expectations and environment.  So on this I agree with you 100%, Nolan knows exactly how to do the big movie.  If I were a major studio investing hundreds of millions, he's absolutely my #1 go-to guy.  He just gets it, and isn't going to make any mistakes.  He's going to make big beautiful movie and protect your investment at the same time.  That's extremely rare in the industry.

Idk if you've ever seen Memento, Insomnia, or The Prestige- but those were all good smaller budget movies Nolan did before he became a giant director in Hollywood. I think basically ever since he did the Batman movies and nailed those- just about every movie he's done including those and since then has been a big $150+ million budget blockbuster- and they've all mostly been big hits with the exception of Tenet- which I think was honestly pretty meh and probably his worst movie.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2023, 05:16:47 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/BBVlayb.png)

Name that stadium ... heh, sort of a giveaway, but looks like a nice place to play.  Unless you're Michigan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 04, 2023, 05:20:40 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 04, 2023, 05:16:47 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/BBVlayb.png)

Name that stadium ... heh, sort of a giveaway, but looks like a nice place to play.  Unless you're Michigan.

that's still gotta be the biggest upset in P5 history...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 04, 2023, 05:22:53 PM

1st I thought of WV color scheme is the same. Not sure of the Name

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 04, 2023, 05:23:58 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 04, 2023, 05:15:07 PM

Idk if you've ever seen Memento, Insomnia, or The Prestige- but those were all good smaller budget movies Nolan did before he became a giant director in Hollywood. I think basically ever since he did the Batman movies and nailed those- just about every movie he's done including those and since then has been a big $150+ million budget blockbuster- and they've all mostly been big hits with the exception of Tenet- which I think was honestly pretty meh and probably his worst movie.

Absolutely, I loved Memento, even before it became cool to love Memento. ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 04, 2023, 05:35:44 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 04, 2023, 04:55:52 PM

The ESPN web site now has NCAAF on the top line for clicking.

I clicked.

My favorited ESPN link IS the NCAAF page :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 06, 2023, 01:32:34 PM

Supreme Court affirmative action poses challenges in hiring (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/06/supreme-court-affirmative-action-ruling-corporate-hiring.html)

I found diversity of thought useful, diversity of skin color was not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 06, 2023, 02:04:38 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 06, 2023, 01:32:34 PM

Supreme Court affirmative action poses challenges in hiring (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/06/supreme-court-affirmative-action-ruling-corporate-hiring.html)

I found diversity of thought useful, diversity of skin color was not.

The Univ of Texas has been on both sides of this issue and lost in court both times

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on August 06, 2023, 02:28:06 PM

Oppenheimer was good though felt it got stuck on super dense subplot re Strauss.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 06, 2023, 02:29:30 PM

Strauss a scientist on the Project?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 06, 2023, 02:36:09 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 06, 2023, 02:29:30 PM

Strauss a scientist on the Project?

no, he was the head of the now defunct AEC (Atomic Energy Commission) - which was replaced by the DOE (Department of Energy).  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 06, 2023, 02:38:11 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on August 06, 2023, 02:28:06 PM

Oppenheimer was good though felt it got stuck on super dense subplot re Strauss.

believe that was kinda necessary to tell the story of Oppenheimer's life though- movie wasn't about the Manhattan Project- it was about Oppenheimer. his battle with Strauss and losing his security clearance and going from hero to outcast is an important part of Oppenheimer's life story. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on August 06, 2023, 02:57:18 PM

I don't disagree, indeed it was the story of Oppenheimer and not just about the bomb.  Just felt the intensity of the Strauss angle was overdone.   Too much Strauss.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 06, 2023, 03:53:22 PM

I went last night. I found it extremely boring a difficult to hear ( I’m extremely hard of hearing but usually do ok in movies). Not sure if I just wasn’t in the mood or not, but I walked out about an hour in. All the jumping around really messed with me, although I come to expect it in a CN movie. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 07, 2023, 07:20:04 AM

One of our most celebrated and critically lauded brews has returned! Oktoberfest (https://www.greatlakesbrewing.com/oktoberfest) is back for another season of tailgates, cookouts, and bonfires.
 (https://i.imgur.com/RA2whFl.jpg)
Great Lakes Brewing released their OKTOBERFEST this week.A celebration of malty goodness

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 07, 2023, 09:14:12 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIpXkQhq1ps

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 07, 2023, 09:22:24 AM

Still too hot for Fest.  I'll check back in a month.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 07, 2023, 09:27:31 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 07, 2023, 07:20:04 AM

One of our most celebrated and critically lauded brews has returned! Oktoberfest (https://www.greatlakesbrewing.com/oktoberfest) is back for another season of tailgates, cookouts, and bonfires.
(https://i.imgur.com/RA2whFl.jpg)
Great Lakes Brewing released their OKTOBERFEST this week.A celebration of malty goodness

I better pick some up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2023, 10:01:57 AM

I have nat had Great Lakes in a while, it used to be a favorite, I don't think it's prominent down heah.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 07, 2023, 10:09:05 AM

unfortunately, as they've ruined everything, the Octoberfest beers are gone by October when the weather turns.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 07, 2023, 10:25:36 AM

Wolfram Alpha

Wolfram Alpha is the awesome artificially intelligent graphing calculator that you wish you had in high school. Want to know what a function looks like? Done. Want to see how to solve an equation, step by step? Can do. Want to know the nutrition facts of a cubic parsec of fried chicken? Not a problem. Wolfram Alpha has a bizarrely broad and sophisticated suite of features, and is the student's best friend.

https://www.wolframalpha.com/ (https://www.wolframalpha.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 07, 2023, 11:00:09 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 07, 2023, 10:09:05 AM

unfortunately, as they've ruined everything, the Octoberfest beers are gone by October when the weather turns.

It's all about marketing.  They can't sell an Oktoberfest after the month of October, nobody will buy them.  So they bring them out earlier and earlier, to maximize the selling season for this popular beer style.

And it's regional too of course.  The predicted high temp in Portland, Maine today, is 69 degrees.  I could definitely drink some Oktoberfest in that weather.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 07, 2023, 01:27:35 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 02, 2023, 12:53:14 PM

Haven't noticed much change here. Typically buy at Costco. We were sitting around 4.55 and I think the last time I was there (Friday) it was 4.75, but we certainly haven't seen a 0.50 rise.

Cheapest I saw in the LA area was in El Segundo. $5.39 for 87. Santa Monica was $5.59.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 07, 2023, 01:33:34 PM

I just filled up at $3.25 which is the highest I've seen for a while. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 07, 2023, 01:38:02 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 07, 2023, 01:27:35 PM

Cheapest I saw in the LA area was in El Segundo. $5.39 for 87. Santa Monica was $5.59.

LA is usually higher than down here in OC. BTW my Costco price did jump to 4.85. 

Oddly enough the Costco near my wife's office (only ~10 mi away as the crow flies) is usually .30 cheaper than the Costco I typically go to. Don't really understand that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 07, 2023, 01:52:54 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 07, 2023, 11:00:09 AM

It's all about marketing.  They can't sell an Oktoberfest after the month of October, nobody will buy them.  So they bring them out earlier and earlier, to maximize the selling season for this popular beer style.

And it's regional too of course.  The predicted high temp in Portland, Maine today, is 69 degrees.  I could definitely drink some Oktoberfest in that weather.

fine, just make enough that it's still available the first week of October - in Iowa

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 07, 2023, 01:55:37 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 07, 2023, 01:52:54 PM

fine, just make enough that it's still available the first week of October - in Iowa

Yeah, I can't speak to that.  There's always plenty for sale in Austin in October.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 07, 2023, 01:59:55 PM

I'm just not thinkin bout Octoberfest in early August and then it's all gone.

:91:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 07, 2023, 02:23:37 PM

You do realize that beer is pretty damn shelf-stable, right? IPAs and other hop-forward beers really benefit from being consumed fresh, but most other beer is not necessary to consume immediately. 

You could buy the Oktoberfestbier now...

...and consume the Oktoberfestbier when the weather is more to your liking. 

:singing:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 07, 2023, 02:28:18 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 07, 2023, 02:23:37 PM

You do realize that beer is pretty damn shelf-stable, right? IPAs and other hop-forward beers really benefit from being consumed fresh, but most other beer is not necessary to consume immediately.

You could buy the Oktoberfestbier now...

...and consume the Oktoberfestbier when the weather is more to your liking.

:singing:

IPAs do not benefit from being consumed fresh, their entire purpose was to sit in the hold of a ship for 6 months and mellow.  That's the whole reason they were over-hopped.

Only a bunch of dumb Americans could later decide "Hey, you know that horrible flavor that IPAs have when they're fresh?  Yeah, we should make a lot more just like that!"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 07, 2023, 03:09:30 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 07, 2023, 02:23:37 PM

You do realize that beer is pretty damn shelf-stable, right? IPAs and other hop-forward beers really benefit from being consumed fresh, but most other beer is not necessary to consume immediately.

You could buy the Oktoberfestbier now...

...and consume the Oktoberfestbier when the weather is more to your liking.

:singing:

I'm aware that the beer will last just fine in my basement
I'm just not always aware that I need to stock up in August

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2023, 03:12:51 PM

You might need to stock up in August ... make a note to self.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 07, 2023, 03:30:49 PM

Luckily I don't, shelves will be plenty stocked with Festbiers throughout the month of October, here in the ATX.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 08, 2023, 07:47:25 PM

https://ktla.com/sports/stone-brewing-usc-partner-for-schools-first-official-beer/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 08, 2023, 08:25:52 PM

I had a couple Oktoberfests today while grilling. Pretty breezy, beautiful day in Columbus. By October everyone will start filling up with Christmas Ales.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 08, 2023, 10:02:17 PM

The rare time I turn on network television in the evening to see how Issue 1 in Ohio turned out. My Lord, is network television basically just The Game Show Channel now?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 08, 2023, 10:18:00 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 08, 2023, 10:02:17 PM

The rare time I turn on network television in the evening to see how Issue 1 in Ohio turned out. My Lord, is network television basically just The Game Show Channel now?

Its summer with a writers strike

lucky to get the game show

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 08, 2023, 11:09:01 PM

Issue 1?

Trump or Biden??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 09, 2023, 04:30:12 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 08, 2023, 11:09:01 PM

Issue 1?

Trump or Biden??

Constitutional amendment to make it harder to amend the State Constitution.

If it had passed it would have required a 60% majority to change the Constitution rather than 50% as now.

There are credible reasons to do this and apparently a lot (most?) States do but in this case it was a transparently obvious effort to stop an impending pro abortion amendment that will be voted on in November. Consequently, instead of a rational discussion of the merits of requiring 50% or 60% to amend the Constitution we got a proxy fight over abortion. 

It failed roughly 57-43.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2023, 09:44:52 AM

Historic Supreme Court case could imperil the entire US tax code | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/4140521-historic-supreme-court-case-could-imperil-the-entire-us-tax-code/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 09, 2023, 01:37:16 PM

Anheuser-Busch to Sell Off Eight Beer, Beverage Brands amid Falling Bud Light Sales. Anheuser-Busch InBev is selling eight beer and beverage brands to cannabis company Tilray Brands, just one month after the beer giant laid off hundreds of its U.S. workers amid a slump in U.S. sales of Bud Light.Last week, Anheuser-Busch reported a drop in sales and profit in the last quarter as it continues to face fallout over Bud Light’s controversial partnership (https://www.nationalreview.com/news/anheuser-busch-marketing-team-is-learning-a-lot-after-bud-light-dylan-mulvaney-controversy-cmo-says/) with transgender influencer Dylan Mulvaney.

All that to satisfy some bent freaks that don't even patronize their brand

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 09, 2023, 03:09:29 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 09, 2023, 01:37:16 PM

Anheuser-Busch to Sell Off Eight Beer, Beverage Brands amid Falling Bud Light Sales. Anheuser-Busch InBev is selling eight beer and beverage brands to cannabis company Tilray Brands, just one month after the beer giant laid off hundreds of its U.S. workers amid a slump in U.S. sales of Bud Light.Last week, Anheuser-Busch reported a drop in sales and profit in the last quarter as it continues to face fallout over Bud Light’s controversial partnership (https://www.nationalreview.com/news/anheuser-busch-marketing-team-is-learning-a-lot-after-bud-light-dylan-mulvaney-controversy-cmo-says/) with transgender influencer Dylan Mulvaney.

All that to satisfy some bent freaks that don't even patronize their brand

go woke, go broke. that's the saying, right? don't think I've ever seen a company sh!t the bed so hard when it comes to being in tune with their brand and it's relationship to the actual customers who actually go out and buy their crappy product.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 09, 2023, 03:15:39 PM

Yeah, this is great.

Cook shortage at Army post shutters some mess halls, leaving hungry soldiers scrambling: report | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/cook-shortage-army-post-shutters-some-mess-halls-leaving-hungry-soldiers-scrambling-report)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2023, 03:16:35 PM

Forunately, for AB, a lot of folks don't know all their brands, so they could have shifted from Bud Light to Stella or Land Shark or whatever.

I don't see a way to bring Bud Light back now except a long interval of time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 09, 2023, 03:31:44 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 09, 2023, 03:09:29 PM

go woke, go broke. that's the saying, right? don't think I've ever seen a company sh!t the bed so hard when it comes to being in tune with their brand and it's relationship to the actual customers who actually go out and buy their crappy product.

Disney is finding that out too. Their attendance numbers suck right now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 09, 2023, 04:09:11 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 09, 2023, 01:37:16 PM

Anheuser-Busch to Sell Off Eight Beer, Beverage Brands amid Falling Bud Light Sales. Anheuser-Busch InBev is selling eight beer and beverage brands to cannabis company Tilray Brands, just one month after the beer giant laid off hundreds of its U.S. workers amid a slump in U.S. sales of Bud Light.Last week, Anheuser-Busch reported a drop in sales and profit in the last quarter as it continues to face fallout over Bud Light’s controversial partnership (https://www.nationalreview.com/news/anheuser-busch-marketing-team-is-learning-a-lot-after-bud-light-dylan-mulvaney-controversy-cmo-says/) with transgender influencer Dylan Mulvaney.

All that to satisfy some bent freaks that don't even patronize their brand

Truly, they overestimated the intelligence of their customers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2023, 04:51:52 PM

This can happen when "managers" live in a microcosm of "cultural elite" and don't know their customer, at all.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 09, 2023, 05:16:20 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 09, 2023, 04:51:52 PM

This can happen when "managers" live in a microcosm of "cultural elite" and don't know their customer, at all. 

I dunno. I'm not sure even the most connected person would expect a random trans tiktoker drinking a Bud Light would lead to Kid Rock shooting up his yard and several beer cases.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 09, 2023, 05:23:37 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 09, 2023, 05:16:20 PM

I dunno. I'm not sure even the most connected person would expect a random trans tiktoker drinking a Bud Light would lead to Kid Rock shooting up his yard and several beer cases.

Might want to choose a different bar to clear there tho...

...because "Kid Rock shooting up his yard and several beer cases" seems like a pretty low one. 

He might do that just for shits'n'grins!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2023, 05:25:46 PM

This was the most predictable screw up in corporate history 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 09, 2023, 05:27:20 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 09, 2023, 05:25:46 PM

This was the most predictable screw up in corporate history

Lol well that night be the silliest statement I've seen in years. Bravo!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 09, 2023, 05:28:02 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 09, 2023, 05:25:46 PM

This was the most predictable screw up in corporate history

It is up there with New Coke. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 09, 2023, 05:32:48 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 09, 2023, 05:28:02 PM

It is up there with New Coke.

And Enron!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 09, 2023, 05:38:17 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 09, 2023, 04:09:11 PM

Truly, they overestimated the intelligence of their customers

If you're talking about trannies who sip rather than slug then yes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 09, 2023, 07:04:03 PM

From afar, the Bud Light thing is odd.
.
So if the social message of the ad causes customers to no longer purchase a food/drink item, they were drinking it because........????
It wasn't the taste.  No one would be pro-taste. 
Had Bud Light previously proclaimed to be conservative/traditional/etc in previous ad campaigns?  Or does cheap beer simply live under that umbrella at all times?
.
I'm always befuddled when this kind of backlash happens with a food/drink.  For me, it's simply "does it taste good?"
I'm weird.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 09, 2023, 07:12:30 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 09, 2023, 05:23:37 PM

Might want to choose a different bar to clear there tho...

...because "Kid Rock shooting up his yard and several beer cases" seems like a pretty low one.

He might do that just for shits'n'grins!

Yeah Kid Rock calls that "Tuesday morning."

I must not know all the details though, because this whole thing seems really odd.  Are these the facts?

1) Bud Light sends some specially printed cans to a transgender person who is popular (I guess?) on social media
2) This person posts pictures to social media with the cans, saying "thank you" to Bud
3) This person is not in any other way associated with Budweiser AB/Inbev-- this person has not been announced as a spokesperson, or any other type of official affiliation with Budweiser.  They just got some special cans and posted pics
4) Random conservative and/or anti-trans Bud drinkers took offense that Budweiser would send this person a handful of specially printed cans
5) Boycott and chaos ensue

Is that about right?  If so, I just don't get it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 09, 2023, 07:14:19 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 09, 2023, 07:12:30 PM

Is that about right?  

Yep. Spot on. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 09, 2023, 07:17:15 PM

Talk about snowflakes...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 09, 2023, 07:21:12 PM

I've never heard of this person outside of this boycott. So she is doing better and people are drinking less Bud Light. Wins all around.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 09, 2023, 07:23:55 PM

Didnt Bud Light use this person via a partnership agreement for promotion of Bud Light

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 09, 2023, 07:24:44 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 09, 2023, 03:31:44 PM

Disney is finding that out too. Their attendance numbers suck right now.

that one might be because the price to go to their parks is like insane now. and to stay on property at one of their hotels? ludicrous. shit has no reason being as expensive as it is if you ask me. Disney+ subscribers have stalled and gone negative as well losing nearly 12 million worldwide. A lot of their new big budget Marvel movies have tanked as well....that was predictable however once they lost RDJ imo. dude was the whole franchise.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 09, 2023, 07:25:32 PM

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-pop-culture/bud-light-partnership-trans-influencer-dylan-mulvaney-prompts-rightwin-rcna78295

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 09, 2023, 07:27:06 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 09, 2023, 07:14:19 PM

Yep. Spot on.

Sheesh.  I figured I was missing something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 09, 2023, 07:27:58 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 09, 2023, 04:09:11 PM

Truly, they overestimated the intelligence of their customers

Lulz nah. pretty obvious the retard in their marketing department overestimated their own intelligence- which is why it blew up in her stupid face and she no longer works at the company.

it's pretty simple shit. the frat boys, muscle meat heads, rednecks, and sports bros who drink their garbage don't want to see ads/promos featuring trannys. you can debate all you want if that's right or wrong- whatever. this is capitalism baby. customer is always right. know your customer. know your product. it's honestly that fkn simple.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 09, 2023, 07:29:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 09, 2023, 04:51:52 PM

This can happen when "managers" live in a microcosm of "cultural elite" and don't know their customer, at all. 

this is exactly what happened...and it's largely a function of these massive corporations hiring retards who get useless degrees and get indoctrinated in colleges by left wing nutjob professors. 90% of these people are fkn morons with degrees that aren't worth wiping their own asses with the paper they are written on.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 09, 2023, 07:30:52 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 09, 2023, 05:32:48 PM

And Enron!

Enron? yeah uh that was pure massive fraud. and not very many on wall street predicted it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 09, 2023, 07:31:45 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 09, 2023, 07:21:12 PM

I've never heard of this person outside of this boycott. So he is doing better and people are drinking less Bud Light. Wins all around.

fixed it for you. this person can take all the hormones he wants and cut his dick off....that's still a man.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 09, 2023, 07:33:20 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 09, 2023, 07:23:55 PM

Didnt Bud Light use this person via a partnership agreement for promotion of Bud Light

Is "printing a handful of cans and posting them on social media" a "partnership agreement?"

And even if it is, it would be just one out of scores of thousands of "partnership agreements" that exist.  The vast majority of which do not involve a transgender person.

Bud Light and its distributors support tailgate parties all over the country via such "partnership agreements."  If I walk by a Bud-sponsored tailgate party on the Texas A&M Campus, am I supposed to get offended?  How DARE they give some cans of beer to an Aggie-oriented group in a "partnership agreement" for the promotion of their product???  Because that's not going to happen.  If anything, I'll accept a free beer from those Aggies (as long as it's one of their faux craft brands, there's no way I'm gonna drink a Bud Light under any circumstances, naturally).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 09, 2023, 07:35:17 PM

I just find it strange that so many people care about other folks gender when they grew up loving the song "A Boy Named Sue"...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 09, 2023, 07:42:42 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 09, 2023, 07:35:17 PM

I just find it strange that so many people care about other folks gender when they grew up loving the song "A Boy Named Sue"...

Yeah, I guess I'll just never understand the stupid meathead douchebag culture.

But it's a fair point that Budweiser probably should have.  Over the decades, through numerous multifaceted marketing campaigns, they've specifically cultivated a relationship with the "Average Joe" of "Middle America."  They've created campaigns celebrating the geography of the heartland, the mainstream blue collar workers, and even hate-ads specifically targeted at the "elitists" who would dare to drink "dark, hand-crafted" beers.

They've definitely targeted a specific demo over the decades.  Is it fair to assume that everyone in that demo is a hate-filled bigot?  Maybe not.  But, obviously a lot of them are.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 09, 2023, 07:44:31 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 09, 2023, 07:35:17 PM

I just find it strange that so many people care about other folks gender when they grew up loving the song "A Boy Named Sue"...

don't think they care so much about what other people choose to do with their bodies. i personally don't give a shit. but i'm not calling someone a woman who isn't. because they're not. i am not down for rewriting the language and mass formation psychosis to bend/change reality to satisfy the whims/feelings of a tiny minority. and no one is going to force me or shame me into doing so. 

trans don't belong playing sports with women either. they don't belong going into bathrooms with women either. and all this shit should sure as shit be off limits pertaining to children. giving hormone blockers to children and performing surgery on children is batshit fkn crazy and absolutely fkn nuts. you're an adult and you want to take hormones and cut your dick off and dress up like a woman and call your self a woman? have at it. knock yourself out. but don't expect the entire world to just go along with your delusions that you're an actual woman with a vagina that can give birth to babies. cause you're not. you're just some dude who cut his dick off, took drugs, and had a bunch of surgeries. that's it.

not saying those people should be treated nasty or bullied or shamed or shunned- everyone should be respected and treated with dignity. but yeah, shit just seems insane out here and motherfkers going way over board on all sides.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 09, 2023, 07:45:03 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 09, 2023, 07:33:20 PM

Is "printing a handful of cans and posting them on social media" a "partnership agreement?"

And even if it is, it would be just one out of scores of thousands of "partnership agreements" that exist.  The vast majority of which do not involve a transgender person.

Bud Light and its distributors support tailgate parties all over the country via such "partnership agreements."  If I walk by a Bud-sponsored tailgate party on the Texas A&M Campus, am I supposed to get offended?  How DARE they give some cans of beer to an Aggie-oriented group in a "partnership agreement" for the promotion of their product???  Because that's not going to happen.  If anything, I'll accept a free beer from those Aggies (as long as it's one of their faux craft brands, there's no way I'm gonna drink a Bud Light under any circumstances, naturally).

Im not taking a side on this other then to say for Bud Light to think that Bubba and JR wont get offended being associated with a transgender spokesman is just stupid. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 09, 2023, 07:46:09 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 09, 2023, 07:31:45 PM

fixed it for you. this person can take all the hormones he wants and cut his dick off....that's still a man.

Man...woman...I'm not nearly as obsessed with his/her genitals as Bud Light drinkers are. That's why I stick to IPAs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 09, 2023, 07:55:36 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 09, 2023, 07:46:09 PM

Man...woman...I'm not nearly as obsessed with his/her genitals as Bud Light drinkers are. That's why I stick to IPAs.

GDit.  Now all this shit has me agreeing with filthy IPA drinkers.

I hate this timeline.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 09, 2023, 07:57:24 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 09, 2023, 07:45:03 PM

Im not taking a side on this other then to say for Bud Light to think that Bubba and JR wont get offended being associated with a transgender spokesman is just stupid.

That's fair, and I addressed exactly that in a subsequent post.

MDot is right about one thing-- that Budweiser should know its product, and should know its market. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 09, 2023, 07:58:08 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 09, 2023, 07:35:17 PM

I just find it strange that so many people care about other folks gender when they grew up loving the song "A Boy Named Sue"...

Johnny punched him out for it,didn't take estrogen or get facial reconfiguration - his old man did though

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 09, 2023, 08:02:11 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 09, 2023, 07:27:58 PM

it's pretty simple shit. the frat boys, muscle meat heads, rednecks, and sports bros who drink their garbage don't want to see ads/promos featuring trannys. you can debate all you want if that's right or wrong- whatever. this is capitalism baby. customer is always right. know your customer. know your product. it's honestly that fkn simple.

Spot on - you get a Yuengling

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 09, 2023, 08:24:49 PM

I read that Bud Light will stop being the nation's top selling beer this year. It will be replaced by...Modelo Especial.

Build the wall

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 09, 2023, 08:50:56 PM

A least drink Canadian Biere spring fresh water, fields of grain on prarie farms.Not ladling dysentery from wagon ruts in the infernal regions below the Border,so bad ya gotta cram a lime in it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 09, 2023, 10:10:50 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 09, 2023, 04:51:52 PM

This can happen when "managers" live in a microcosm of "cultural elite" and don't know their customer, at all. 

So, I don't think this is the case. Honestly, this whole thing doesn't say a whole ton about AB. It says a lot about where the culture is, how we wear our politics, how we channel being offended. It also says something about the flavor of Bud Light and beer in general. 

If you look at this kerfuffle, the two offending points are a one-off influencer promotion (with someone you likely didn't know unless you were on Gen Z social media) and an out of context quote on a podcast that could be read in a way that offended. That's it. This is far from the most militantly "woke" thing Bud Light has done. If it was simply that, people would've noticed and packed up a long time ago. 

But we're living in a certain age where we are extremely politics forward. We let our politics dictate our lifestyles. We often treat our politics like boosters treat their teams. Watching Bud Light sales crater has been like watching a scoreboard. People are taking their low-stakes financial choices as a chance to make a statement. 

And it's borne from a kind of offense that seemed to be a little directionless. The desire for being offended needs something to be offended by. This specific event is for the most part a case of good influencer work (from folks who taste make in that space of being offended). In a logical world, Bud Light would've driven away conservatives long ago, but I think people on both sides were different iin approach a few years ago. In this case, a couple small pieces of info made it to the right information bloodstreams during a moment when nothing else was top of mind. And thus, Bud Light got sucked up into the cancel culture jet engine. 

Bud light was particularly vulnerable for two reasons. The first is that beers are very substitutable, and light beers are especially so. There's very little compelling difference between Bud Light, Coors Light and Miller Lite. Bud Light's dominance was also weak because it was built on being bland and plain. There's a joke that in movies people will just go up and order "a beer," despite that not being a thing you can do. But Bud Light was that beer. A near-faceless placeholder. 

The whole thing also gave rise to two myths. 1. Bud light was in good shape before this. It was an ailing brand, losing market share, with young people not picking it up and seltzers eating into the market. The losses it's taken were accelerated, but they were coming. 2. There's this idea Bud Light was the beer of "frat boys, muscle meat heads, rednecks, and sports bros." As far as I can tell, it was a beer mostly for old people and cheap people. Its ads didn't radiate manliness. No one identified with the Bud Light night. But the thing about being a cheap but not too cheap beer is the price point is low enough, even the slightest shift in preference is gonna crush you. And boy has it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 10, 2023, 04:37:55 AM

I think most of us could have easily predicted this sort of reaction had this been proposed as any kind of marketing strategy and stopped it.

It had zero potential to add business.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on August 10, 2023, 05:38:55 AM

Anheuser-Busch put this ad out for the Super Bowl in 2017. Those whining about Bud Light now were whining about Bud Light then, too.

https://youtu.be/IZaQQvfIfPQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 10, 2023, 06:10:02 AM

It's not the "whining" that matters, it's the purchasing, or lack thereof, on a remarkably broad scale.  I might whine about Product X and even buy an alternative, but unless I get millions of others to do the same ...

The New Coke example is not really on point as they could go back to Coke, and did, with no damage, in fact, sales increased.  Some folks even think the move was intentional from the start.  Bud Light is now stuck, no "man's man" is going to order one at the local bar or be seen buying any or have any to serve friends.  It's an image thing now, majorly so.  If you buy it, you probably are "gay", and I know for most of us here we wouldn't care, but a LOT of men do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 10, 2023, 06:59:05 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 10, 2023, 04:37:55 AM

I think most of us could have easily predicted this sort of reaction had this been proposed as any kind of marketing strategy and stopped it.

It had zero potential to add business.

I mean, we would’ve said the same of their long history of gay-friendly advertising, and somehow, it never sank them before. But the world is different now. 

Now they did add to the damage in one way. They tried to apologize, which both didn’t work and offended the set of angry lefties who still bought the beer. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 10, 2023, 07:05:39 AM

Again, this relates to knowing your customer.  If you employ gay friendly ads for yogurt, it won't do a thing bad, but if you did it for say men's work boots, it probably would.

Some products are more geared to men who want to think of themselves as virile and are probably conservative, don't do gay ads for them.  I would stay away from any ads that are "socially relevant" for just about any product.  Quite a few men are basically anti-gay, covertly or openly, they don't want anything to do with it.  

Don't try and sell Camaros or F150s using two guys who are more than buds.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 10, 2023, 07:12:25 AM

Coors Lite is a main sponsor for the Denver Pride Parade.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 10, 2023, 07:14:13 AM

Sure, and how widely is that known? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 10, 2023, 07:20:49 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 10, 2023, 07:14:13 AM

Sure, and how widely is that known?

Pretty widely if you live in Denver, I imagine. Like Dylan Mulvaney's Instagram page, a niche audience

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on August 10, 2023, 07:25:04 AM

Why all the gay support from lite beers?  Why not the flagship beers?  Is this is a subtle form of discrimination or stereotype?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 10, 2023, 07:57:55 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 09, 2023, 10:10:50 PM

2. There's this idea Bud Light was the beer of "frat boys, muscle meat heads, rednecks, and sports bros." As far as I can tell, it was a beer mostly for old people and cheap people

Agree with a lot of what you're saying, but in my part of the country at least, Bud Light is very much a redneck beer. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 10, 2023, 08:07:01 AM

A large part of light beer drinkers are "red necks", not all of course, but I'd bet the profile of BL drinkers leans conservative and more rural and male.  We have a large "Pride Festival" here as well, quite large, with a lot of sponsors, nobody seems to pay any attention to them.  I don't recall who they are, I do recall seeing a large sign somewhere with their emblems on it.  And of course I live in an area with a lot of gay "life" all over.  I rarely notice anything about it, in part because I don't care, in part because PDAs are not frequent.  I see gay flags all around, it's good marketing, HERE.  Probably not so much in Chatsworth.

Know your customer, this was all readily preventable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 10, 2023, 08:15:59 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 10, 2023, 07:57:55 AM

Agree with a lot of what you're saying, but in my part of the country at least, Bud Light is very much a redneck beer.

Well, then they were practicing some accidental inclusion. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 10, 2023, 08:20:26 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 09, 2023, 07:33:20 PM

If anything, I'll accept a free beer from those Aggies (as long as it's one of their faux craft brands, there's no way I'm gonna drink a Bud Light under any circumstances, naturally).

Hear me out here:
Maybe, just maybe, if you were THAT anti-Bud Light then you weren't their target market to begin with.

Quote from: utee94 on August 09, 2023, 07:42:42 PM

Yeah, I guess I'll just never understand the stupid meathead douchebag culture.

But it's a fair point that Budweiser probably should have.  Over the decades, through numerous multifaceted marketing campaigns, they've specifically cultivated a relationship with the "Average Joe" of "Middle America."  They've created campaigns celebrating the geography of the heartland, the mainstream blue collar workers, and even hate-ads specifically targeted at the "elitists" who would dare to drink "dark, hand-crafted" beers.

They've definitely targeted a specific demo over the decades.

Agree with all of this. Bud Light was America's most popular beer for decades. During those decades they had a long string of silly and sometimes "fratty" ads such as:

• Farting horses
• Frogs
• Lizards
• Wassssup
• Etc

So this new marketing employee looks at this situation and apparently says:
"The brand I work for has the most successful marketing of any of the cheap, mass market light beers so naturally what I should do is to totally upend the marketing strategy, that makes sense."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 10, 2023, 08:22:47 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 09, 2023, 07:58:08 PM

Johnny punched him out for it,didn't take estrogen or get facial reconfiguration - his old man did though

Note also that in Shel Silverstein's song the boy having a girl's name IS the joke.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 10, 2023, 08:24:53 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 10, 2023, 07:05:39 AM

Again, this relates to knowing your customer.  If you employ gay friendly ads for yogurt, it won't do a thing bad, but if you did it for say men's work boots, it probably would.

Some products are more geared to men who want to think of themselves as virile and are probably conservative, don't do gay ads for them.  I would stay away from any ads that are "socially relevant" for just about any product.  Quite a few men are basically anti-gay, covertly or openly, they don't want anything to do with it. 

Don't try and sell Camaros or F150s using two guys who are more than buds.

You seem to not know, and maybe the not knowing is the point.

Bud Light has been employing gay friendly ads for DECADES. It had some decidedly more militant ones at points. If there really is a case that many men are simply too proud or insecure to drink a beer associated with gay folks, then this was inevitable. The only thing that changed was these folks being made aware of something. 

Shit, this particular "gay ad" was not targeted at this cadre of men, nor would they have ever seen it, but for the need for content. I guess the lesson is that in a past era, a company like Bud Light could quietly chug along with its socially relevant ads, and for some reason, folks didn't get offended in that same way. And now, for reasons probably beyond a company's control, it cannot. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 10, 2023, 08:29:04 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 10, 2023, 08:20:26 AM

Hear me out here:
Maybe, just maybe, if you were THAT anti-Bud Light then you weren't their target market to begin with.Agree with all of this. Bud Light was America's most popular beer for decades. During those decades they had a long string of silly and sometimes "fratty" ads such as:

• Farting horses
• Frogs
• Lizards
• Wassssup
• Etc

So this new marketing employee looks at this situation and apparently says:
"The brand I work for has the most successful marketing of any of the cheap, mass market light beers so naturally what I should do is to totally upend the marketing strategy, that makes sense."

But the bolded isn't the case. Their marketing strategy has involved Pride Month and Gay Friendly ads for a looooonnnngggg time. 

This company literally made a graphic celebrating the gay marriage Supreme Court decision within a day of it coming down. And a year later ran an ad where two shrill Hollywood actors demanded you respect gay marriage. 

What's fascinating is that apparently some people just had no idea this happened. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 10, 2023, 08:32:06 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 10, 2023, 08:15:59 AM

Well, then they were practicing some accidental inclusion.

Not really.  Long string of targeted ads for Middle America/heartland/traditional values types of people, plus years worth of targeted ads against "elitist craft beer snobbery."  Both campaigns are firmly entrenched in cultivating average joe, middle america, redneck types.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 10, 2023, 08:33:29 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 10, 2023, 08:29:04 AM

But the bolded isn't the case. Their marketing strategy has involved Pride Month and Gay Friendly ads for a looooonnnngggg time.

This company literally made a graphic celebrating the gay marriage Supreme Court decision within a day of it coming down. And a year later ran an ad where two shrill Hollywood actors demanded you respect gay marriage.

What's fascinating is that apparently some people just had no idea this happened.

This is precisely how, and WHY, targeted advertising works.

You said it yourself earlier, somehow THIS one slipped through and made an impression.  Most of them never did.

Why? Why did this one create the Perfect Storm?  Couldn't tell you.  I'm not in touch with douchebag bigotry.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 10, 2023, 08:36:08 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 10, 2023, 08:29:04 AM

But the bolded isn't the case. Their marketing strategy has involved Pride Month and Gay Friendly ads for a looooonnnngggg time.

This company literally made a graphic celebrating the gay marriage Supreme Court decision within a day of it coming down. And a year later ran an ad where two shrill Hollywood actors demanded you respect gay marriage.

What's fascinating is that apparently some people just had no idea this happened.

I don't care to go searching for a link right now but the employee responsible talked in interviews about moving away from the "fratty" campaigns. She literally was trying to completely upend the marketing strategy of the most successful light beer marketer in America. 

It wasn't just another thing added on, there was an underlying effort to change the culture. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 10, 2023, 08:39:34 AM

It's possible this was a minor thing and somehow caught fire in SM, I dunno.  I would have vetoed it entirely were I in position to do so.

Stick with frogs or lamps.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 10, 2023, 08:53:15 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 10, 2023, 08:39:34 AM

It's possible this was a minor thing and somehow caught fire in SM, I dunno.  I would have vetoed it entirely were I in position to do so.

Stick with frogs or lamps.

You would've upended that longtime marketing strategy. Would've been an interesting choice. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 10, 2023, 08:56:14 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 10, 2023, 08:36:08 AM

I don't care to go searching for a link right now but the employee responsible talked in interviews about moving away from the "fratty" campaigns. She literally was trying to completely upend the marketing strategy of the most successful light beer marketer in America.

It wasn't just another thing added on, there was an underlying effort to change the culture.

Again, this pride month thing has been part of "the marketing strategy of the most successful light beer marketer in America." It's been part of it for a long time. 

I did see that out of context quote. I was interested in the context. She's talking about this ad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azCNwGnxq0s

It's a married couple dancing. It's no Bud Light knight, this is true. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 10, 2023, 08:57:46 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 10, 2023, 08:33:29 AM

This is precisely how, and WHY, targeted advertising works.

You said it yourself earlier, somehow THIS one slipped through and made an impression.  Most of them never did.

Why? Why did this one create the Perfect Storm?  Couldn't tell you.  I'm not in touch with douchebag bigotry.

The impression part fascinates me, only because some of the other ads were clearly more looking to be divisive. But those are sort of whitewashed over. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 10, 2023, 09:01:56 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 10, 2023, 08:57:46 AM

The impression part fascinates me, only because some of the other ads were clearly more looking to be divisive. But those are sort of whitewashed over.

Maybe the other ads weren't airing in areas where the rednecks and frat bros would see them?

That's why I've now become interested in why THIS one caught fire.  Perhaps social media crosses more boundaries, is tougher to keep targeted and restricted, or something?

I do a lot of marketing in my job, but I'm no advertising expert, that's for sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 10, 2023, 09:22:17 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 10, 2023, 09:01:56 AM

That's why I've now become interested in why THIS one caught fire.  

Only reason I can think is that this didn't involve something "gay", it involved "trans". I was talking to a very good friend last weekend and his wife was saying that they were thinking of sending their kids to private school or home-schooling because the schools are telling little boys they might be girls and vice versa. Which... As a parent of 3 in a MUCH more liberal state than where they live (NC), I've heard none of this. But it's something that she finds so terrifying that she's talking about home-schooling to avoid it. 

It's easy to lump all of LGBTQ+ into one group. But although most of the country has learned that LGB isn't the big scary bogeyman that they thought it was 20 years ago, "T" still very much is. So bigotry is still "safe" when it comes to that one. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 10, 2023, 09:28:42 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 10, 2023, 09:22:17 AM

Only reason I can think is that this didn't involve something "gay", it involved "trans". I was talking to a very good friend last weekend and his wife was saying that they were thinking of sending their kids to private school or home-schooling because the schools are telling little boys they might be girls and vice versa. Which... As a parent of 3 in a MUCH more liberal state than where they live (NC), I've heard none of this. But it's something that she finds so terrifying that she's talking about home-schooling to avoid it.

It's easy to lump all of LGBTQ+ into one group. But although most of the country has learned that LGB isn't the big scary bogeyman that they thought it was 20 years ago, "T" still very much is. So bigotry is still "safe" when it comes to that one.

This is an excellent point and is probably the root of it.

Even on this site, the most serious reactions are coming from the perspective of "men are men and women are women regardless of cutting off penises."  

I'm not bothered by the LGB stuff, but I'm also not bothered by the T stuff, so it doesn't hit any different to me. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 10, 2023, 09:48:35 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 10, 2023, 09:22:17 AM

Only reason I can think is that this didn't involve something "gay", it involved "trans". I was talking to a very good friend last weekend and his wife was saying that they were thinking of sending their kids to private school or home-schooling because the schools are telling little boys they might be girls and vice versa. Which... As a parent of 3 in a MUCH more liberal state than where they live (NC), I've heard none of this. But it's something that she finds so terrifying that she's talking about home-schooling to avoid it.

It's easy to lump all of LGBTQ+ into one group. But although most of the country has learned that LGB isn't the big scary bogeyman that they thought it was 20 years ago, "T" still very much is. So bigotry is still "safe" when it comes to that one.

I think some of it is that we are just a lot more politics forward in terms of personalities for a lot of people.

Bud Light spiking the football on gay marriage was a thing, but it didn’t inspire backlash as a cause in the same way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 10, 2023, 10:02:26 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 10, 2023, 09:48:35 AM

I think some of it is that we are just a lot more politics forward in terms of personalities for a lot of people.

Bud Light spiking the football on gay marriage was a thing, but it didn’t inspire backlash as a cause in the same way.

Eh. I think it was because the ship had already sailed on gay marriage. 

I've got a saying. "Bigotry loves company." It's easy to be openly bigoted when that's the majority position. But there's a tipping point, and once it's reached, people walk that crap back FAST. 

In 2005 it was easy to find people who were openly against gay marriage. I'm sure many still exist. How many will openly admit that now in 2023? 

We're at the 2005 level when it comes to dealing with the trans community. Maybe even the 1995 level. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 10, 2023, 10:10:57 AM

5 pages on Bud Light ???

geez

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 10, 2023, 10:53:26 AM

Let's talk about good beer instead.

(https://i.imgur.com/XV5GM6W.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 10, 2023, 11:48:33 AM

Who is this @eltigrerex (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1580) who liked your post but has apparently never actually posted?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 10, 2023, 11:50:43 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 10, 2023, 11:48:33 AM

Who is this @eltigrerex (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1580) who liked your post but has apparently never actually posted?

@eltigrerex (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1580) ? Never heard of the guy.

Although I had a dream that I once shared some Live Oak beer with him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 10, 2023, 11:56:52 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 10, 2023, 11:50:43 AM

@eltigrerex (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1580) ? Never heard of the guy.

Although I had a dream that I once shared some Live Oak beer with him.

Speaking of which, for any of you that were at that board meeting in Austin, and might recall that I missed out on some of the festivities because I had a newborn baby at the time (who did make an appearance at the tailgate along with my i s c & a aggie wife)... well... that baby turns 16 and will be an officially licensed driver next month.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 10, 2023, 12:41:27 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 10, 2023, 11:56:52 AM

Speaking of which, for any of you that were at that board meeting in Austin, and might recall that I missed out on some of the festivities because I had a newborn baby at the time (who did make an appearance at the tailgate along with my i s c & a aggie wife)... well... that baby turns 16 and will be an officially licensed driver next month.

I remember those days well

Scary as Hell

right of passage for both the child and the parents

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 10, 2023, 01:41:07 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 10, 2023, 12:41:27 PM

I remember those days well

Scary as Hell

right of passage for both the child and the parents

She's a really great driver, we take her out driving all the time.  She's smart and conscientious, so experience is all she lacks, and we're constantly working on that. 

Her 13-yo brother on the other hand... whew.  I'm just glad we still have a while to prepare for that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 10, 2023, 01:44:11 PM

you usually get one of each

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 10, 2023, 01:47:41 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 10, 2023, 01:41:07 PM

She's a really great driver, we take her out driving all the time.  She's smart and conscientious, so experience is all she lacks, and we're constantly working on that.

Her 13-yo brother on the other hand... whew.  I'm just glad we still have a while to prepare for that.

Our daughter is 4 years older then her brother and really learned to drive from drivers ed

we really spent very little time teaching her how to drive

Our son on the other hand didnt pick it up very well from drivers ed and we had many sessions in empty parking lots for his driving education as well as driving around on Sunday mornings

Its amazing how different your kids can be

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 10, 2023, 02:07:44 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 10, 2023, 07:57:55 AM

Agree with a lot of what you're saying, but in my part of the country at least, Bud Light is very much a redneck beer.

So Lonestar or Pabst put Dylan up to it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 10, 2023, 02:10:07 PM

Busch light is embraced by rednecks in Iowa

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 10, 2023, 02:13:54 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 10, 2023, 02:07:44 PM

So Lonestar or Pabst put Dylan up to it?

does anyone really drink Lone Star

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 10, 2023, 02:14:28 PM

I've had a few

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 10, 2023, 02:19:17 PM

John Mueller (RIP) used to hand cans of ice cold Lone Star out for free if you were waiting in line at his BBQ restaurant.  It would be rude not to accept and drink it.  Especially when a guy with a Lone Star in one hand and a brisket carving knife in the other, who is alternatively known as "Captain Stabby," is the one handing you the beer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 10, 2023, 02:46:33 PM

I've waited in that line a few times

not lucky enuff to get a free beer or meet Captain Stabby

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 10, 2023, 03:04:38 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 10, 2023, 02:19:17 PM

John Mueller (RIP) used to hand cans of ice cold Lone Star out for free if you were waiting in line at his BBQ restaurant.  It would be rude not to accept and drink it.  

I'd like another,Sir if it wouldn't be too much trouble and can I have a chair by the sink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 10, 2023, 03:12:36 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 10, 2023, 02:19:17 PM

John Mueller (RIP) used to hand cans of ice cold Lone Star out for free if you were waiting in line at his BBQ restaurant.  It would be rude not to accept and drink it.  Especially when a guy with a Lone Star in one hand and a brisket carving knife in the other, who is alternatively known as "Captain Stabby," is the one handing you the beer.

Are those carving knives stabby? Or is that the joke?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 10, 2023, 03:43:51 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 10, 2023, 03:12:36 PM

Are those carving knives stabby? Or is that the joke?

The joke is that he might stab you if you bother him.  His personality was always somewhat... prickly... one might say.  So some of the old hornfans.com/shaggybevo/surlyhorns posters who knew him or at least interacted with him regularly, nicknamed him Captain Stabby.

As far as I know he never actually stabbed anyone.  And also, I might have been exaggerating a bit when I suggested he'd actually come out to pass out beers whilst still holding his carving knife.

But he was still an ornery son of a gun.  Free beer, though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 10, 2023, 09:36:50 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 10, 2023, 01:47:41 PM

Its amazing how different your kids can be

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/365296518_860930325396933_8729791142724072667_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=waayxK_TXDkAX-EgcIG&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBc2W7qtonPnhc959hTv5Mw0yjXv9XpxvLznmTCg1u2Jg&oe=64D9D8E5)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 10, 2023, 10:42:55 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 10, 2023, 03:43:51 PM

The joke is that he might stab you if you bother him.  His personality was always somewhat... prickly... one might say.  So some of the old hornfans.com/shaggybevo/surlyhorns posters who knew him or at least interacted with him regularly, nicknamed him Captain Stabby.

As far as I know he never actually stabbed anyone.  And also, I might have been exaggerating a bit when I suggested he'd actually come out to pass out beers whilst still holding his carving knife.

But he was still an ornery son of a gun.  Free beer, though.

I definitely like the vibe. It was only top of mine because I got Texas style barbecue last weekend, and all the knives had rounded edges.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2023, 07:43:58 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 10, 2023, 11:50:43 AM

@eltigrerex (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1580) ? Never heard of the guy.

Although I had a dream that I once shared some Live Oak beer with him.

I was in that dream too.

16 years?

Time really does fly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2023, 07:46:20 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 10, 2023, 11:48:33 AM

Who is this @eltigrerex (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1580) who liked your post but has apparently never actually posted?

That's Tiger King from a past life/board.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2023, 07:48:11 AM

It's good to be home. Happy the fridge contains no Bud Light.

To be fair, there is no beer in the fridge.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 08:09:34 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 10, 2023, 10:42:55 PM

I definitely like the vibe. It was only top of mine because I got Texas style barbecue last weekend, and all the knives had rounded edges.

I slice brisket with a roast slicer like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/P4ZCPqU.png)

Rounded tip but I keep the blade very, very sharp.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 11, 2023, 08:37:39 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 10, 2023, 08:33:29 AM

This is precisely how, and WHY, targeted advertising works.

You said it yourself earlier, somehow THIS one slipped through and made an impression.  Most of them never did.

Why? Why did this one create the Perfect Storm?  Couldn't tell you.  I'm not in touch with douchebag bigotry.

Can you define "douchebag bigotry"?

I ask this because your choice of words seems to indicate that you believe that if a segment of people object to the far left wing, anti-family, LGTBQX@!#% lifestyle and the notion that we should all celebrate it that they are some how a bunch of douchebag bigots. 

From my standpoint, and from what I can tell, all of my friends and people with whom I associate, I could care less what a person does in the privacy of their own home or if they want to be seen in public dressing and portraying themselves of the opposite gender. 

But when our elected officials and companies begin to tell me that I have to celebrate how someone has sex or agree to play along with their mental illness by using pronouns that indicate a lie, that is where I, and my like minded people, draw the line. 

Now you may call people such as me douchebags, bigots or anything you like. However, I am not the one living in a fantasy world, trying to upend the natural world by getting people to believe that this mental illness being pushed down our throats'.  

And Anheuser Busch is not the only company that will see their profits drop. People are beginning to wake up and push back against this lunacy and are rejecting much of this push to insanity. The reason that Disney is suffering is not because their prices are high, they've always been high. They're suffering because people are getting tired of their woke BS injected into what should be a safe haven for family friendly entertainment and are refusing to spend their money on such nonsense. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 11, 2023, 08:45:09 AM

Family friend has his own Q shop - it's just take out,anyway,the guy's mom gave us some smoked meatloaf yesterday. That was GOOD,just a hint of smoke- which i'm not crazy about but dayum - 2 thumbs up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 08:48:19 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 11, 2023, 08:37:39 AM

Can you define "douchebag bigotry"?

I ask this because your choice of words seems to indicate that you believe that if a segment of people object to the far left wing, anti-family, LGTBQX@!#% lifestyle and the notion that we should all celebrate it that they are some how a bunch of douchebag bigots.

From my standpoint, and from what I can tell, all of my friends and people with whom I associate, I could care less what a person does in the privacy of their own home or if they want to be seen in public dressing and portraying themselves of the opposite gender.

But when our elected officials and companies begin to tell me that I have to celebrate how someone has sex or agree to play along with their mental illness by using pronouns that indicate a lie, that is where I, and my like minded people, draw the line.

Now you may call people such as me douchebags, bigots or anything you like. However, I am not the one living in a fantasy world, trying to upend the natural world by getting people to believe that this mental illness being pushed down our throats'. 

And Anheuser Busch is not the only company that will see their profits drop. People are beginning to wake up and push back against this lunacy and are rejecting much of this push to insanity. The reason that Disney is suffering is not because their prices are high, they've always been high. They're suffering because people are getting tired of their woke BS injected into what should be a safe haven for family friendly entertainment and are refusing to spend their money on such nonsense.

Nah I'm pretty sure you already know what I mean when I say douchebag bigotry.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 11, 2023, 08:54:09 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 11, 2023, 08:37:39 AM

 I could care less what a person does in the privacy of their own home or if they want to be seen in public dressing and portraying themselves of the opposite gender.But when our elected officials and companies begin to tell me that I have to celebrate how someone has sex or agree to play along with their mental illness by using pronouns that indicate a lie, that is where I, and my like minded people, draw the line.

Good Post I think that is where alot of the resentment comes from.There are young men competing in womans/girls sports and calling themselves such is just bent horseshit catering to freaks.Wearing tight fitting female spandex with their 'package" clearly outlined wanting to use the girls restrooms/lockerooms is JUST SIMPLY WRONG. Run the damn government quit legislating/celebrating morally bankrupt stances.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:00:14 AM

What does any of that have to do with a transgender person thanking Bud Light for a few cans of beer?

When you project all of your anger about sports or the government or whatever, onto a person posting pictures of Bud Light on the internet, you tell ME what that looks like.

Because I've already told YOU what it IS.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 11, 2023, 09:03:17 AM

He was hitting the heart of the broader subject and I happen to agree with that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:03:55 AM

But don't worry, I call out douchebag bigots of all kinds, on all sides, without any prejudice.  Anti-religious bigotry is just another form of douchebag bigotry, and we have one poster on this site that regularly engages in such.

Guys, bigotry is bad.  You should all know this, it's simple stuff.  Doesn't matter whether you're hating on the gays or the trans or people with different religious views than you, it's all bad.

All that hate's gonna burn you up, kid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on August 11, 2023, 09:07:57 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 11, 2023, 08:37:39 AM

Can you define "douchebag bigotry"?

I ask this because your choice of words seems to indicate that you believe that if a segment of people object to the far left wing, anti-family, LGTBQX@!#% lifestyle and the notion that we should all celebrate it that they are some how a bunch of douchebag bigots.

From my standpoint, and from what I can tell, all of my friends and people with whom I associate, I could care less what a person does in the privacy of their own home or if they want to be seen in public dressing and portraying themselves of the opposite gender.

But when our elected officials and companies begin to tell me that I have to celebrate how someone has sex or agree to play along with their mental illness by using pronouns that indicate a lie, that is where I, and my like minded people, draw the line.

Now you may call people such as me douchebags, bigots or anything you like. However, I am not the one living in a fantasy world, trying to upend the natural world by getting people to believe that this mental illness being pushed down our throats'. 

And Anheuser Busch is not the only company that will see their profits drop. People are beginning to wake up and push back against this lunacy and are rejecting much of this push to insanity. The reason that Disney is suffering is not because their prices are high, they've always been high. They're suffering because people are getting tired of their woke BS injected into what should be a safe haven for family friendly entertainment and are refusing to spend their money on such nonsense.

Exactly where I stand.  Could not care less what you do with yourself, but just don't push it on me or my family.  

If I came out and declared I was black I would be laughed off the stage, ostracized, and ridiculed.  Yet somehow these people can declare they are the opposite sex and we should just go along with it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 11, 2023, 09:09:11 AM

And I'm just as pissed at the government for allowing Biden and Finestein keep office when they are obviously disabled. Just saw a video on her getting assistance to read her vote on the floor how she's vote for sending another 813 BILLION to defense industry. Like that couldn't put to better use. I'm sure the bitch's portfolio includes some of those companies

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 11, 2023, 09:10:59 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 08:48:19 AM

Nah I'm pretty sure you already know what I mean when I say douchebag bigotry.

Well if opposing the celebration of the way people have sex or the mentally ill parading around in front of kids is douchebag bigotry, I will happily wear that label. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:11:10 AM

Quote from: Gigem on August 11, 2023, 09:07:57 AM

Exactly where I stand.  Could not care less what you do with yourself, but just don't push it on me or my family. 

If I came out and declared I was black I would be laughed off the stage, ostracized, and ridiculed.  Yet somehow these people can declare they are the opposite sex and we should just go along with it. 

Please explain to me-- How is posting a picture on the internet with some Bud Lights, "pushing it on you or your family?"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:12:12 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 11, 2023, 09:10:59 AM

Well if opposing the celebration of the way people have sex or the mentally ill parading around in front of kids is douchebag bigotry, I will happily wear that label.

Please explain to me-- How is posting a picture on the internet with some Bud Lights a "celebration of the way people have sex or the mentally ill parading around in front of kids?"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:13:19 AM

If you simply can't stand the sight-- can't stand the existence-- of a transgendered person, well then there's a word for you, and I keep saying it over and over.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 11, 2023, 09:14:27 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:00:14 AM

What does any of that have to do with a transgender person thanking Bud Light for a few cans of beer?

When you project all of your anger about sports or the government or whatever, onto a person posting pictures of Bud Light on the internet, you tell ME what that looks like.

Because I've already told YOU what it IS.

Why did Bud Lite pick this mentally ill person to put on a few beer cans? Why not an average jane or joe? In today's political environment, Bud Lite made a conscious decision to "celebrate" a person's mental illness and by extension, telling it's customers to do the same. It's says that Bud Lite values the mentally ill over it's base. Their decision and they have to live with the consequences. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:15:38 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 11, 2023, 09:14:27 AM

Why did Bud Lite pick this mentally ill person to put on a few beer cans? Why not an average jane or joe? In today's political environment, Bud Lite made a conscious decision to "celebrate" a person's mental illness and by extension, telling it's customers to do the same. It's says that Bud Lite values the mentally ill over it's base. Their decision and they have to live with the consequences.

Quote from: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:13:19 AM

If you simply can't stand the sight-- can't stand the existence-- of a transgendered person, well then there's a word for you, and I keep saying it over and over.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 11, 2023, 09:16:17 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:03:55 AM

But don't worry, I call out douchebag bigots of all kinds, on all sides, without any prejudice.  Anti-religious bigotry is just another form of douchebag bigotry, and we have one poster on this site that regularly engages in such.

Guys, bigotry is bad.  You should all know this, it's simple stuff.  Doesn't matter whether you're hating on the gays or the trans or people with different religious views than you, it's all bad.

All that hate's gonna burn you up, kid.

So if I don't embrace the Trans or gay culture, I'm now a bigot?

I clearly stated in my post that I could care less how people behave in their homes, just don't be upset when I don't embrace it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:18:36 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 11, 2023, 09:16:17 AM

So if I don't embrace the Trans or gay culture, I'm now a bigot?

I clearly stated in my post that I could care less how people behave in their homes, just don't be upset when I don't embrace it.

Getting bent out of shape that a trans person dares to post some pictures to the internet, is intolerance.

That intolerance is a result of bigotry.

You're allowed to feel any way you want, just don't be upset when I call it out for what it is-- bigotry.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2023, 09:20:10 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:13:19 AM

If you simply can't stand the sight-- can't stand the existence-- of a transgendered person, well then there's a word for you, and I keep saying it over and over.

I don't think anyone has stated that they cannot stand anything.

More like, "Hey you do you, but don't tell me I have to like it or go to a parade or spend a whole month celebrating it."

If one says they don't like it, they are labeled a bigot...

By a bigot.

As the world turns, so to speak.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 11, 2023, 09:22:15 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:13:19 AM

If you simply can't stand the sight-- can't stand the existence-- of a transgendered person, well then there's a word for you, and I keep saying it over and over.

It has nothing to do with whether or not I can stand his existence, it has to do with WHO Bud Lite chooses to celebrate and why. 

If Bud Lite chose's to cater to the mentally ill community, that is their call. I can choose to not buy their product.  Does that make me a bigot? (Not being a beer drinker any more, it really does not affect me anyway).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:23:36 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2023, 09:20:10 AM

I don't think anyone has stated that they cannot stand anything.

More like, "Hey you do you, but don't tell me I have to like it or go to a parade or spend a whole month celebrating it."

If one says they don't like it, they are labeled a bigot...

By a bigot.

As the world turns, so to speak.

Bull

Fucking

Shit

Nobody is forcing any of the people on this site to have a parade or celebrate anything.  They are offended that Bud Light sent some cans of shitty beer to a transgender person and that this person had the audacity NOT to hide in their own home, but rather post come pictures on social media.

How on earth is that "forcing" it on anyone? 

You can't say "You do you" and then get offended when a trans person dares to make a perfectly acceptable statement on an open public forum.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 11, 2023, 09:24:50 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:18:36 AM

Getting bent out of shape that a trans person dares to post some pictures to the internet, is intolerance.

That intolerance is a result of bigotry.

You're allowed to feel any way you want, just don't be upset when I call it out for what it is-- bigotry.

Who is bent out of shape? I'm not. However I do have an opinion. Again, I could care less what this mentally ill person does, it does not change my day one way or the other. However, I can still have an opinion. 

And by the way, I am intolerant of a few other things. I don't care for theft, murder and pedophilia. Am I a bigot in those cases also? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:25:24 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 11, 2023, 09:22:15 AM

It has nothing to do with whether or not I can stand his existence, it has to do with WHO Bud Lite chooses to celebrate and why.

If Bud Lite chose's to cater to the mentally ill community, that is their call. I can choose to not buy their product.  Does that make me a bigot? (Not being a beer drinker any more, it really does not affect me anyway).

Yes.  Of course it does.  If you choose not to drink Bud Light because a black person is promoting it, you're a bigot.  If you choose not to drink Bud Light because a trans person is promoting it,  you're a bigot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:25:56 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 11, 2023, 09:24:50 AM

Who is bent out of shape? I'm not. However I do have an opinion. Again, I could care less what this mentally ill person does, it does not change my day one way or the other. However, I can still have an opinion.

And by the way, I am intolerant of a few other things. I don't care for theft, murder and pedophilia. Am I a bigot in those cases also?

I'm not even going to bother answering this stupid question.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 11, 2023, 09:26:08 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:18:36 AM

Getting bent out of shape that a trans person dares to post some pictures to the internet, is intolerance.

That intolerance is a result of bigotry.

You're allowed to feel any way you want, just don't be upset when I call it out for what it is-- bigotry.

You are the one getting bent out of shape again read a whole post before jumping to conclusions.Are you alright with a transgender competing against your daughter and dressing in the same locker room? I have friends who are furious over this as it was attempted and they and others boycotted

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 11, 2023, 09:27:22 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:23:36 AM

Bull

Fucking

Shit

Nobody is forcing any of the people on this site to have a parade or celebrate anything.  They are offended that Bud Light sent some cans of shitty beer to a transgender person and that this person had the audacity NOT to hide in their own home, but rather post come pictures on social media.

How on earth is that "forcing" it on anyone?

You can't say "You do you" and then get offended when a trans person dares to make a perfectly acceptable statement on an open public forum.

Please show me where I said that this mentally ill person cannot post pictures on SM. I didn't. I was discussing Bud Lite celebrating him for his mental illness and why that action was the reason that many people no longer drink Bud Lite. Perhaps you missed my point. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2023, 09:27:53 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:23:36 AM

Bull

Fucking

Shit

Nobody is forcing any of the people on this site to have a parade or celebrate anything.  They are offended that Bud Light sent some cans of shitty beer to a transgender person and that this person had the audacity NOT to hide in their own home, but rather post come pictures on social media.

How on earth is that "forcing" it on anyone?

You can't say "You do you" and then get offended when a trans person dares to make a perfectly acceptable statement on an open public forum.

I think you are reading my post wrong.

My post is not about the Bud Light thing at all - which didn't bother me in the least. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2023, 09:30:05 AM

I think I'd rather drink bunny piss than _____ light or any other swill. If I'm gonna drink a beer, it's got to be beer. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:30:40 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 11, 2023, 09:26:08 AM

Are you alright with a transgender competing against your daughter and dressing in the same locker room? I have freinds who are furious over this as it was attempted and they and others boycotted

Why do some of you keep bringing in things that have nothing to do with the instance we're discussing?  This is a red herring logical fallacy and is irrelevant to the point at hand-- that a bunch of people started boycotting a product because they don't like transgendered people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:32:09 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 11, 2023, 09:27:22 AM

Please show me where I said that this mentally ill person cannot post pictures on SM. I didn't. I was discussing Bud Lite celebrating him for his mental illness and why that action was the reason that many people no longer drink Bud Lite. Perhaps you missed my point.

The fact that you think Bud Light simply sending pics to a transgendered person and allowing that person to post on the internet is "celebrating" them is the crux of the problem and it's entirely on you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 11, 2023, 09:32:32 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:25:24 AM

Yes.  Of course it does.  If you choose not to drink Bud Light because a black person is promoting it, you're a bigot.  If you choose not to drink Bud Light because a trans person is promoting it,  you're a bigot.

I don't believe that I ever buy or use a product based upon who is promoting it. It is more likely that I will shy away from a product due to some idiot telling me that I should us it. 

When I drank beer, I preferred Labatt Blue. Not because anyone endorsed it or any other bear, but because of the beers that I tried, I liked it the best. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2023, 09:33:00 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:30:40 AM

Why do some of you keep bringing in things that have nothing to do with the instance we're discussing?  This is a red herring logical fallacy and is irrelevant to the point qt hand-- that a bunch of people started boycotting a product because they don't like transgendered people.

I think the conversation goes past that. I also think that the posters here don't really care about the Bud Light deal. Rather, the underlying theme of these "movements" or whatever.

Kinda like the schoolbook thing, etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 11, 2023, 09:33:41 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:32:09 AM

The fact that you think Bud Light simply sending pics to a transgendered person and allowing that person to post on the internet is "celebrating" them is the crux of the problem and it's entirely on you.

If they are not celebrating it, what other purpose does it serve? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2023, 09:34:12 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 11, 2023, 09:32:32 AM

I don't believe that I ever buy or use a product based upon who is promoting it. It is more likely that I will shy away from a product due to some idiot telling me that I should us it.

When I drank beer, I preferred Labatt Blue. Not because anyone endorsed it or any other bear, but because of the beers that I tried, I liked it the best.

That I would drink.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:34:53 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 11, 2023, 09:32:32 AM

When I drank beer, I preferred Labatt Blue. Not because anyone endorsed it or any other bear, but because of the beers that I tried, I liked it the best.

Well I certainly agree with you on this.  People should drink what they like.  Even if it's Budweiser. I'd be a beer bigot if I thought less of Fearless for drinking his macroswill.  I think less of him for many other reasons, but not his choice in beer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 11, 2023, 09:35:41 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:30:40 AM

Why do some of you keep bringing in things that have nothing to do with the instance we're discussing?  This is a red herring logical fallacy and is irrelevant to the point at hand-- that a bunch of people started boycotting a product because they don't like transgendered people.

Why are you not reading whole posts it was certainly mentioned regarding the government's involvement of it many posts ago that you somehow didn't read or want to.Good Day~Whatever~OLE

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 11, 2023, 09:36:53 AM

I'll still have a bud light as often as I ever did.  if the Bud heavy runs out and there aren't better options

I still drink Bud heavy, some think all products from that parent company should be boycotted.
I don't care.

It doesn't bother me a tall about a marketing issue with transgender folks.

I do feel that men shouldn't be allowed to compete in women's sports or use women's restrooms.
some folks may give up bud light for those reasons

I have no problem with transgenders and have bought a few of them a beer or two.
I can respect the way they feel about themselves.
I believe in tolerance for others as long as their actions don't infringe on the rights of others.

Are trans folks mentally ill????
Hell, I don't know.  very possibly

but, I have tolerance for folks with all types of mental illness.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:40:15 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2023, 09:33:00 AM

I think the conversation goes past that. I also think that the posters here don't really care about the Bud Light deal. Rather, the underlying theme of these "movements" or whatever.

Kinda like the schoolbook thing, etc.

But that's exactly the point.  They're using this Bud Light deal to champion all of their other issues.

I'm talking about Bud Light sending some cans to a transgender person, and that person posting it to social media, and then a boycott that occurred simply because a transgender person was allowed to promote Bud Light.  If you stop drinking Bud Light because you don't like transgendered people, you're a bigot.  It's just that simple.  It's no different than refusing to drink it if an African-American is promoting it, or an Irishman, or a female.

I've already stated and agreed that Bud Light should have known better, but really all that's admitting is that Bud Light should have understood the deep-seated bigotry and hatred within its core market base.  And well, that's a pretty damning indictment all the way around, isn't it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 11, 2023, 09:40:37 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:34:53 AM

Well I certainly agree with you on this.  People should drink what they like.  Even if it's Budweiser. I'd be a beer bigot if I thought less of Fearless for drinking his macroswill.  I think less of him for many other reasons, but not his choice in beer.

beer snob

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:42:43 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 11, 2023, 09:40:37 AM

beer snob

Guilty as charged.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 11, 2023, 09:52:39 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 09:40:15 AM

But that's exactly the point.  They're using this Bud Light deal to champion all of their other issues.

I'm talking about Bud Light sending some cans to a transgender person, and that person posting it to social media, and then a boycott that occurred simply because a transgender person was allowed to promote Bud Light.  If you stop drinking Bud Light because you don't like transgendered people, you're a bigot.  It's just that simple.  It's no different than refusing to drink it if an African-American is promoting it, or an Irishman, or a female.

I've already stated and agreed that Bud Light should have known better, but really all that's admitting is that Bud Light should have understood the deep-seated bigotry and hatred within its core market base.  And well, that's a pretty damning indictment all the way around, isn't it?

And all I was saying is that if Bud Lite wants to use the mentally ill to promote their product, they should not be surprised when people choose not to buy their product. 

But the real issue is that the Bud Lite promotion was just the straw that broke the camels back. This is a retaliation against the entire woke agenda that is being pushed by Hollywood, the Main Stream Media, schools and politicians. People are fed up with it and are looking to make a statement that they are tired of this crap being pushed on them. Bud Lite was just the hill that those opposed to the woke agenda decided to take a stand. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 10:02:10 AM

Tilting at windmills and hiding from bogeymen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 11, 2023, 10:06:20 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 10:02:10 AM

Tilting at windmills and hiding from bogeymen.

I guess that having topless women on the lawn of the White House is nothing but bogeymen. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 10:09:24 AM

I just call that Tuesday

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 11, 2023, 10:15:52 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2023, 09:33:00 AM

I think the conversation goes past that. I also think that the posters here don't really care about the Bud Light deal. Rather, the underlying theme of these "movements" or whatever.

Kinda like the schoolbook thing, etc.

Well said you get a Yuengling

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on August 11, 2023, 11:04:17 AM

Oklahoma just added the University of Maine Black Bears to their 2024 football schedule.  It would be hard to find a more lopsided game.

https://soonersports.com/news/2023/8/11/ou-adds-final-two-football-opponents-for-2024 (https://soonersports.com/news/2023/8/11/ou-adds-final-two-football-opponents-for-2024)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 11, 2023, 11:08:50 AM

well, all the other lopsided opponents are taken by other SEC teams

the Sooners are just trying to fit in

probably scheduled for November

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 11, 2023, 11:10:04 AM

How to Win the Mega Millions Jackpot: Expert Advice from a Harvard Scientist

this is the type of headline I click on every time

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/lifestyle-buzz/how-to-win-the-mega-millions-jackpot-expert-advice-from-a-harvard-scientist/ss-AA1eXZJ4?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=6e82df60301d45a6b36f05b977ba79f0&ei=8#interstitial=1 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/lifestyle-buzz/how-to-win-the-mega-millions-jackpot-expert-advice-from-a-harvard-scientist/ss-AA1eXZJ4?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=6e82df60301d45a6b36f05b977ba79f0&ei=8#interstitial=1)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 11, 2023, 11:31:14 AM

Has this expert won the mega? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 11, 2023, 11:44:06 AM

probably not he's a Scientist

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 11, 2023, 12:13:59 PM

So a scientist and obviously not an expert,maybe I'll just ask at the Pub

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 11, 2023, 12:25:49 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 11, 2023, 11:10:04 AM

How to Win the Mega Millions Jackpot: Expert Advice from a Harvard Scientist

this is the type of headline I click on every time

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/lifestyle-buzz/how-to-win-the-mega-millions-jackpot-expert-advice-from-a-harvard-scientist/ss-AA1eXZJ4?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=6e82df60301d45a6b36f05b977ba79f0&ei=8#interstitial=1 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/lifestyle-buzz/how-to-win-the-mega-millions-jackpot-expert-advice-from-a-harvard-scientist/ss-AA1eXZJ4?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=6e82df60301d45a6b36f05b977ba79f0&ei=8#interstitial=1)

That was one of the dumbest things I've read in a long time. And some of it was factually wrong. 

They pointed out that picking random numbers reduces your odds of winning a non-shared jackpot. But it doesn't change your odds of winning a jackpot, only whether you share it. Also that when more people are buying tickets, it lowers your odds. Which isn't true, it just lowers your odds of winning a non-shared jackpot. 

I'm pretty sure that if the jackpot is $1.3B and you win only half of it, you're not gonna be that upset that you have to share. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 11, 2023, 12:35:40 PM

Just Give 50 people 20 million apiece,spread the wealth

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 11, 2023, 12:38:52 PM

I'm in

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 11, 2023, 12:42:46 PM

A few weeks ago @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) made a comment that was not altogether atypical for him, but it got me thinking about something that I want to try running past this group. 

Fro's comment was one of his usual tirades against religion and he scoffed at (I think it was directed at Christianity specifically but most religions agree on this) religious focus on sex. 

I have little kids so it occurred to me that this might be analogous to the tale of Hansel and Gretl. 

For the purpose of this discussion let's just set aside any religious beliefs that any of us may have and accept the atheistic premise that religion is totally false and no different from a Grimm Brothers Fairy Tale such as Hansel and Gretl. That way we are meeting Fro, @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) and the rest on their terms. 

The analogy:
In Hansel and Gretl the children wander into the forest where they are captured by a cannibalistic witch who intends to fatten them up and eat them. 

Now we all know that there aren't ACTUALLY cannibalistic witches residing in the forest. That said, I don't want my young children wandering off into the forest anyway because despite the lack of witches, there ARE dangers lurking in the forest. Some of these dangers are even lethal. If my kids wandered into the forest they could get killed by a wild animal, drown in a pond, or simply die of exposure if not found soon enough.

The witch in the Grimm Brothers story effectively stands in for these actual dangers and the story was told in part to keep kids from wandering into the forest where they might suffer from the actual dangers that the witch is meant to represent. 

In other words, even though the witch isn't real, I still don't want my kids wandering into the forest. 

So now I'll bring it back to Fro's comment. Maybe the religious focus on sex was never actually about sex so much as it was about raising the next generation. 

We all know that being from a single-parent background has a massive detrimental impact on expected outcomes. Kids from single parent households are VASTLY more likely to be criminals, victims of crime, unemployed, incarcerated, addicted, etc. 

Maybe the focus of most religions on sex was a lot like the Grimm Brothers focus on the witch. 

Maybe a whole lot of societies figured out that single parent households were terrible building blocks for a successful society so they came up with "fairy tales" that demonized premarital sex simply to avoid single parent households. 

We've effectively done away with the religion and discovered that there isn't REALLY a witch but without stopping to think that maybe the witch was just a stand-in for REAL dangers that are out there.

For thousands of years the "sinfulness" of non-marital sex helped to minimize single-parent households in sucessful societies all over the globe.  Even if the "sinfulness" isn't real, there are still detrimental outcomes that we haven't come up with an alternative method to minimize. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 11, 2023, 12:51:59 PM

It's Friday do you really expect us to read all of that? ;D

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 11, 2023, 12:57:13 PM

@medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) I don't have time for a substantive response right now, so I'll just drop this one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55h1FO8V_3w

I'll take some time for a real response this afternoon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: TyphonInc on August 11, 2023, 01:22:45 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 11, 2023, 12:51:59 PM

It's Friday do you really expect us to read all of that? ;D

See ya on Monday?

Whether God is real or not, I think the No Sex till Marriage is/was a huge warning, that we as a modern society choose to ignore. ...
But we moderns know so much more than those silly backwater peasants, we have birth control and condoms.
And yet the percentage of people have abortions or having kids as a single parent has never been higher. 
With all of our intelligence, we have lost our wisdom. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 11, 2023, 01:34:39 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 11, 2023, 12:42:46 PM

A few weeks ago @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) made a comment that was not altogether atypical for him, but it got me thinking about something that I want to try running past this group.

Fro's comment was one of his usual tirades against religion and he scoffed at (I think it was directed at Christianity specifically but most religions agree on this) religious focus on sex.

I have little kids so it occurred to me that this might be analogous to the tale of Hansel and Gretl.

For the purpose of this discussion let's just set aside any religious beliefs that any of us may have and accept the atheistic premise that religion is totally false and no different from a Grimm Brothers Fairy Tale such as Hansel and Gretl. That way we are meeting Fro, @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) and the rest on their terms.

The analogy:
In Hansel and Gretl the children wander into the forest where they are captured by a cannibalistic witch who intends to fatten them up and eat them.

Now we all know that there aren't ACTUALLY cannibalistic witches residing in the forest. That said, I don't want my young children wandering off into the forest anyway because despite the lack of witches, there ARE dangers lurking in the forest. Some of these dangers are even lethal. If my kids wandered into the forest they could get killed by a wild animal, drown in a pond, or simply die of exposure if not found soon enough.

The witch in the Grimm Brothers story effectively stands in for these actual dangers and the story was told in part to keep kids from wandering into the forest where they might suffer from the actual dangers that the witch is meant to represent.

In other words, even though the witch isn't real, I still don't want my kids wandering into the forest.

So now I'll bring it back to Fro's comment. Maybe the religious focus on sex was never actually about sex so much as it was about raising the next generation.

We all know that being from a single-parent background has a massive detrimental impact on expected outcomes. Kids from single parent households are VASTLY more likely to be criminals, victims of crime, unemployed, incarcerated, addicted, etc.

Maybe the focus of most religions on sex was a lot like the Grimm Brothers focus on the witch.

Maybe a whole lot of societies figured out that single parent households were terrible building blocks for a successful society so they came up with "fairy tales" that demonized premarital sex simply to avoid single parent households.

We've effectively done away with the religion and discovered that there isn't REALLY a witch but without stopping to think that maybe the witch was just a stand-in for REAL dangers that are out there.

For thousands of years the "sinfulness" of non-marital sex helped to minimize single-parent households in sucessful societies all over the globe.  Even if the "sinfulness" isn't real, there are still detrimental outcomes that we haven't come up with an alternative method to minimize.

There are many experts who attribute the challenges faced by minorities in this country to being raised by one parent

It appears to be the source of many problems

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 01:48:26 PM

Excellent points and discussion, medina.  I, too, will take some time for a considered response.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 11, 2023, 02:40:51 PM

Quote from: TyphonInc on August 11, 2023, 01:22:45 PM

Whether God is real or not, I think the No Sex till Marriage is/was a huge warning, that we as a modern society choose to ignore. ...
But we moderns know so much more than those silly backwater peasants, we have birth control and condoms.
And yet the percentage of people have abortions or having kids as a single parent has never been higher.

I think if you got in a DeLorean, travelled back to 1955, and told an adult (like my grandparent's generation, born 1900-1910) that in 20 years time abortion would be legal nationally, condoms would be much more effective and readily available, and there would be a magical pill that women could take that would be almost 100% effective at preventing pregnancy, that person would naturally assume that by the middle-1970's there would be almost zero out-of-wedlock births.  Instead, as you pointed out, the percentage of people having kids as a single parent has never been higher.  

This is something that has long fascinated me for multiple reasons.  

Condoms have been around for a while but their effectiveness has gotten better over time.  The pill didn't become widely available until the middle-60's depending on where you lived.  Prior to Roe, Abortion was gradually being legalized again depending on where you lived and was the law of the land from 1973 until very recently.  

That may sound like ancient history but it isn't.  That is all within the lifetimes of some of our posters and others that we know.  

My dad was born in 1940 so when he was a teenager and then a young Marine from 1953-1961 there were no birth control pills and abortion was totally illegal in most of the country.  For the men and women of that generation (and every generation prior) having sex led to a VERY high probability of becoming a parent.  

A couple thoughts about it:
First, I think generally what happened is that the cultural changes brought about by the pill and legal abortion swamped the functional changes.  Ie, yes people have that choice now but instead of the choice leading to less single-parent births it led to VASTLY more single sex and that overwhelmed the reduction.  

Second, this is terrible for society not only because coming from a single-parent household has a terrible impact in average outcomes but also because it has exacerbated a massive divide between the haves and the have nots.  Today nearly half of first time mothers are unmarried.  I think most people just assume that this is relatively equal across society.  I used to think so, but it most definitely is NOT.  Among white college graduates more than 90% of first time mothers are married.  The percentages aren't that much lower for non-white college graduates.  The divide is less racial than class-based.  Among the lower classes the percentages are almost completely reversed.  

Functionally what this means is that there are basically two types of children born today: 

• Children born to two college educated parents, and
• Children born to a HS educated (at best) mother with no father in the picture.  

Even if we assumed that the children had equal average intelligence (they don't because the college educated parents are smarter on average and that is at least partially heritable), but even if they did, the children in group #1 have a VASTLY better support network than those born in group #2.  

Worse, this has been going on for several generations now so the difference is actually even bigger than it seems at first.  In addition to having two college educated parents rather than one non-college parent, the kids in group #1 are also much more likely to have college educated grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 11, 2023, 02:53:50 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 11, 2023, 02:40:51 PM

I think if you got in a DeLorean, travelled back to 1955, and told an adult (like my grandparent's generation, born 1900-1910) that in 20 years time abortion would be legal nationally, condoms would be much more effective and readily available, and there would be a magical pill that women could take that would be almost 100% effective at preventing pregnancy, that person would naturally assume that by the middle-1970's there would be almost zero out-of-wedlock births.  Instead, as you pointed out, the percentage of people having kids as a single parent has never been higher. 

This is something that has long fascinated me for multiple reasons. 

Condoms have been around for a while but their effectiveness has gotten better over time.  The pill didn't become widely available until the middle-60's depending on where you lived.  Prior to Roe, Abortion was gradually being legalized again depending on where you lived and was the law of the land from 1973 until very recently. 

That may sound like ancient history but it isn't.  That is all within the lifetimes of some of our posters and others that we know. 

My dad was born in 1940 so when he was a teenager and then a young Marine from 1953-1961 there were no birth control pills and abortion was totally illegal in most of the country.  For the men and women of that generation (and every generation prior) having sex led to a VERY high probability of becoming a parent. 

A couple thoughts about it:
First, I think generally what happened is that the cultural changes brought about by the pill and legal abortion swamped the functional changes.  Ie, yes people have that choice now but instead of the choice leading to less single-parent births it led to VASTLY more single sex and that overwhelmed the reduction. 

Second, this is terrible for society not only because coming from a single-parent household has a terrible impact in average outcomes but also because it has exacerbated a massive divide between the haves and the have nots.  Today nearly half of first time mothers are unmarried.  I think most people just assume that this is relatively equal across society.  I used to think so, but it most definitely is NOT.  Among white college graduates more than 90% of first time mothers are married.  The percentages aren't that much lower for non-white college graduates.  The divide is less racial than class-based.  Among the lower classes the percentages are almost completely reversed. 

Functionally what this means is that there are basically two types of children born today:

• Children born to two college educated parents, and
• Children born to a HS educated (at best) mother with no father in the picture. 

Even if we assumed that the children had equal average intelligence (they don't because the college educated parents are smarter on average and that is at least partially heritable), but even if they did, the children in group #1 have a VASTLY better support network than those born in group #2. 

Worse, this has been going on for several generations now so the difference is actually even bigger than it seems at first.  In addition to having two college educated parents rather than one non-college parent, the kids in group #1 are also much more likely to have college educated grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc. 

well said

Its unfortunate that we as a country dont put funds toward solving this issue instead of the bone head stuff we do spend money on

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 11, 2023, 03:06:23 PM

the question is, how do you fix the issue?

throwing money at an issue rarely resolves said issue

do we support Christianity and therefore the Catholic church?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 11, 2023, 03:31:10 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 11, 2023, 03:06:23 PM

the question is, how do you fix the issue?

throwing money at an issue rarely resolves said issue

do we support Christianity and therefore the Catholic church?

That really is the question but unfortunately I think a lot of these things are like trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 11, 2023, 03:42:33 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 11, 2023, 03:06:23 PM

the question is, how do you fix the issue?

throwing money at an issue rarely resolves said issue

do we support Christianity and therefore the Catholic church?

its not a question of religion but more of a question of government money making it too convienent to be an unmarried mother

there should be more government promotion for a two parent family

I really need to think more on the subject to make any actual solutions

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 11, 2023, 04:11:13 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 11, 2023, 03:42:33 PM

its not a question of religion but more of a question of government money making it too convienent to be an unmarried mother

there should be more government promotion for a two parent family

I really need to think more on the subject to make any actual solutions

I'm not sure how out of hand the single mother on welfare issue is today.  It may be a little overblown or not.
The old stories of mothers getting pregnant and having many children to make more money are obviously based in some truth.

so, filing jointly with children should be rewarded monetarily?

I'm not sure taking money from one group and giving it to another group is the answer but it would provide some motivation and incentive.

Obviously, many fathers split the scene because they don't want the responsibility, financially and otherwise. I'm not convinced you can pay them enough to take on the rest of the responsibility.  (maybe)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 11, 2023, 04:17:17 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 11, 2023, 04:11:13 PM

I'm not sure how out of hand the single mother on welfare issue is today.  It may be a little overblown or not.
The old stories of mothers getting pregnant and having many children to make more money are obviously based in some truth.

so, filing jointly with children should be rewarded monetarily?

I'm not sure taking money from one group and giving it to another group is the answer but it would provide some motivation and incentive.

Obviously, many fathers split the scene because they don't want the responsibility, financially and otherwise. I'm not convinced you can pay them enough to take on the rest of the responsibility.  (maybe)

The key question is why is this more of a problem for the Black community?  Is it the fact that many times they live in an economically depressed area? Is it a big city vs small town issue?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 11, 2023, 04:27:52 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 11, 2023, 04:11:13 PM

I'm not sure how out of hand the single mother on welfare issue is today.  It may be a little overblown or not.
The old stories of mothers getting pregnant and having many children to make more money are obviously based in some truth.

so, filing jointly with children should be rewarded monetarily?

I'm not sure taking money from one group and giving it to another group is the answer but it would provide some motivation and incentive.

Obviously, many fathers split the scene because they don't want the responsibility, financially and otherwise. I'm not convinced you can pay them enough to take on the rest of the responsibility.  (maybe)

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 11, 2023, 03:42:33 PM

its not a question of religion but more of a question of government money making it too convienent to be an unmarried mother

there should be more government promotion for a two parent family

I really need to think more on the subject to make any actual solutions

Here is an example . . . and then why I'm not really sure that it makes any difference.  

My wife works for a school so she is off in the summer.  When she is at work we have three kids (4, 2, 1) in daycare.  Here in Ohio that was costing me $650/week.  

The Federal Tax Code has some help for me!  If your employer provides for it you can set up a childcare account and have some money deducted from your paycheck pre-tax to use to pay daycare.  That is great.  The problem is that it is capped at $5,000 per year.  I mentioned that my daycare bill is $650/week.  I go through $5,000 before the end of March so that cap could be a lot higher.  My annual daycare bill (even with summer off) is on the order of $25K.  

So the Feds could increase the cap on childcare accounts to $25K.  That would be GREAT for me because it would reduce my taxable income by an additional $20K.  That is a tax preference for families, right.  

Well, here is the thing.  I and nearly every other parent who would benefit from this in any meaningful way are ALREADY married.  That change in the tax code would reward me for doing that but it wouldn't functionally encourage me because I ALREADY did.  

Nearly all of the non-married parents are non-College graduates and with only a few exceptions most of them don't make enough money for tax issues like that to be all that big of a deal.  

As I noted above, this is much more of a class than a racial issue.  The higher earning people of all races are mostly married when they have kids and the lower earning people of all races mostly aren't.  You can't encourage low earners with changes to the tax code because they simply aren't paying enough in taxes to even notice let alone care or plan things around it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 11, 2023, 04:31:58 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 11, 2023, 04:17:17 PM

The key question is why is this more of a problem for the Black community?  Is it the fact that many times they live in an economically depressed area? Is it a big city vs small town issue?

The differences between races at the same income are nowhere near as large as the differences between income brackets within the races so I think that most of it is simply because a higher percentage of the black community is in the lower income brackets.  

As a practical matter, across races, marriage has become a luxury that only the relatively rich manage to avail themselves of.  Lower class women no matter their race generally have children without being married.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 11, 2023, 04:57:06 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 11, 2023, 12:42:46 PM

A few weeks ago @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) made a comment that was not altogether atypical for him, but it got me thinking about something that I want to try running past this group.

Fro's comment was one of his usual tirades against religion and he scoffed at (I think it was directed at Christianity specifically but most religions agree on this) religious focus on sex.

I have little kids so it occurred to me that this might be analogous to the tale of Hansel and Gretl.

For the purpose of this discussion let's just set aside any religious beliefs that any of us may have and accept the atheistic premise that religion is totally false and no different from a Grimm Brothers Fairy Tale such as Hansel and Gretl. That way we are meeting Fro, @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) and the rest on their terms.

The analogy:
In Hansel and Gretl the children wander into the forest where they are captured by a cannibalistic witch who intends to fatten them up and eat them.

Now we all know that there aren't ACTUALLY cannibalistic witches residing in the forest. That said, I don't want my young children wandering off into the forest anyway because despite the lack of witches, there ARE dangers lurking in the forest. Some of these dangers are even lethal. If my kids wandered into the forest they could get killed by a wild animal, drown in a pond, or simply die of exposure if not found soon enough.

The witch in the Grimm Brothers story effectively stands in for these actual dangers and the story was told in part to keep kids from wandering into the forest where they might suffer from the actual dangers that the witch is meant to represent.

In other words, even though the witch isn't real, I still don't want my kids wandering into the forest.

So now I'll bring it back to Fro's comment. Maybe the religious focus on sex was never actually about sex so much as it was about raising the next generation.

We all know that being from a single-parent background has a massive detrimental impact on expected outcomes. Kids from single parent households are VASTLY more likely to be criminals, victims of crime, unemployed, incarcerated, addicted, etc.

Maybe the focus of most religions on sex was a lot like the Grimm Brothers focus on the witch.

Maybe a whole lot of societies figured out that single parent households were terrible building blocks for a successful society so they came up with "fairy tales" that demonized premarital sex simply to avoid single parent households.

We've effectively done away with the religion and discovered that there isn't REALLY a witch but without stopping to think that maybe the witch was just a stand-in for REAL dangers that are out there.

For thousands of years the "sinfulness" of non-marital sex helped to minimize single-parent households in sucessful societies all over the globe.  Even if the "sinfulness" isn't real, there are still detrimental outcomes that we haven't come up with an alternative method to minimize.

Okay... There might be a lot to unpack here. Note that a lot of this was based on thoughts I had inklings of, but were really crystallized by Yuval Harari's book Sapiens (https://www.amazon.com/Sapiens-Humankind-Yuval-Noah-Harari-ebook/dp/B00ICN066A/). If you have not read that book, I absolutely recommend it. I can't say that more strongly. Read the book!

One of its key points is that underpinning modern society is humanity's ability to coalesce around shared myths. There are many of these myths. Human rights / civil rights. Money. Government. The Social Contract. Political parties. And, yes, religion. 

Note that when I call religion a myth, it's akin to what I think CD always says: "All models are wrong. Some of them are useful." The word "myth" is triggering for some, because they think myths are false. But that's not true. Government exists. Money exists. But their power is only supported by the shared belief in the myth. Generally when those myths break down, things are bad. WRT money, think Weimar republic or Zimbabwe. Money is incredibly valuable and useful, until people don't believe it. Then it's worthless. 

Also note that when I call religion a myth, that is NOT a statement on the existence or nonexistence of any supreme being we might call "God". Obviously you all know I don't believe in such a being. But I also can't definitively prove or disprove that. And in the end, it's irrelevant. And I mean that; it's irrelevant. The value of the myth is just as powerful whether there is a God or not. As long as enough people BELIEVE in the God and the myth, it can fulfill its intended purpose. 

So let's think about the purpose. And this goes straight to your point about non-marital sex. Whether there's a God or not, religion has historically served a very critical purpose as it relates to setting the rules of a functional society. Like the Patton Oswalt example, the state of nature is that the biggest and the strongest can take whatever they want. You can't have a functional complex society if that is the governing myth. So we needed something else. It was a set of rules where most people kinda realized "if we all agree to do this, society works." And if you can enforce that with the reward of eternal bliss for conformity, and the threat of eternal damnation for non-conformity, well, that's a pretty powerful carrot and stick. 

So, yes, I absolutely believe that a lot of what religion has to say about sex is trying to create rules that align with a successful and functional society. As you point out, there are MANY problems caused by single-parent households, and so religion would have an incentive to have rules that discourage that.

But, there can be some major problems when you involve humans who can shape that myth. Religion, corrupted by humans, is a way to make people rich and powerful. With religion, converting adults is hard. But indoctrinating youth is easy. So religion is a numbers game--if you can't convert others, might as well out-breed them. So anything that supports breeding is good; anything that gets in the way is bad.

So you have a conundrum trying to apply this in modern society. Single parents are bad, so you're against non-marital sex. But breeding is good, so you're against abortion (or anything similar, like publicly mandating insurance funding of birth control, as we see with the fights over Obamacare). It's a cognitive dissonance problem; someone shouldn't have gotten pregnant in the first place, but now, she HAS to have the baby. 

It gets messy. And given that the social order exists because of the myth, anything that threatens the myth is a threat to the social order and must be opposed. Gays and lesbians are non-conforming because they don't breed, so we have to do everything we can to discourage them. I think the whole issue with trans right now is almost that nobody knows what to do with them, but they are an even more extreme non-conformance, so they they are a threat to the social order and must be opposed. 

The myth doesn't deal well with non-conformity. So the myth has to have built-in ways to discourage it. And we see that with religion, IMHO. 

But the fact is that we can adjust the myths. We're adaptable. We can create new myths as we see fit. Or we can tweak or ignore old myths. But that's hard for people who are emotionally invested in the old myths, or those who are incentivized or benefity from the old myths. As it relates to religion, religion/myth is a core portion of most peoples identity. When you threaten their religion/myth, you threaten their identity, and that is going to get a visceral and angry reaction. Which is, of course, what we see. 

Human society exists because we've coalesced around shared myths. But it also creates dysfunction because people become attached to those myths and so change and conflict between competing myths causes discord. 

And so we are where we are.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2023, 05:09:19 PM

Quote from: TyphonInc on August 11, 2023, 01:22:45 PM

See ya on Monday?

Whether God is real or not, I think the No Sex till Marriage is/was a huge warning, that we as a modern society choose to ignore. ...
But we moderns know so much more than those silly backwater peasants, we have birth control and condoms.
And yet the percentage of people have abortions or having kids as a single parent has never been higher.
With all of our intelligence, we have lost our wisdom.

You can say that again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2023, 05:12:15 PM

Ya know, we have some really thoughtful and smart people here.

I'm impressed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 11, 2023, 05:21:11 PM

I've been impressed for decades

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 11, 2023, 05:22:06 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 11, 2023, 04:31:58 PM

The differences between races at the same income are nowhere near as large as the differences between income brackets within the races so I think that most of it is simply because a higher percentage of the black community is in the lower income brackets. 

agreed, I don't think it's a race issue

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 06:25:01 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 11, 2023, 05:22:06 PM

agreed, I don't think it's a race issue

Right, it's only a race issue insofar as minorities are overrepresented in the lower economic classes, as medina points out.

BUT, that doesn't mean you can't address it through a racial approach.  There are pro-minority groups that already have the means and an audience.  Someone like the NAACP could assert itself in promoting the merits of the two-parent family, for example.

Ultimately I think we're already so far down this road then I'm not sure there's any way to reverse it.  Maybe we can slow it down.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 11, 2023, 06:29:17 PM

maybe not anyway to reverse it in our lifetime, but slowing it down is the first step

similar to Carbon emissions 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 12, 2023, 07:54:39 AM

Not sure if we covered this
https://www.yahoo.com/news/man-crushed-death-falling-wheels-114904358.html

An Italian man has been crushed to death under thousands of vast wheels of a Parmesan-style hard cheese, firefighters said Monday.
Giacomo Chiapparini, 74, was buried under the cheeses, each of which weighed almost 90 pounds, when a shelf broke in his warehouse in the northern Lombardy region on Sunday, creating a domino effect that brought down thousands of wheels, firefighter Antonio Dusi from Bergamo told AFP.
Rescuers "had to move the cheeses and the shelves by hand," Dusi said, adding that it "took about 12 hours" to finally find Chiapparini.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 12, 2023, 08:53:48 AM

That's a lot of cheese

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 12, 2023, 11:17:34 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 12, 2023, 08:53:48 AM

That's a lot of cheese

That's not the worst of it.

In order to free him they had to . . .

Cut the cheese 🧀 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 12, 2023, 02:37:11 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 11, 2023, 12:42:46 PM

For thousands of years the "sinfulness" of non-marital sex helped to minimize single-parent households in sucessful societies all over the globe.  Even if the "sinfulness" isn't real, there are still detrimental outcomes that we haven't come up with an alternative method to minimize.

I appreciate the post, but I think you're giving ancient societies WAAAYYYYYY too much credit here.  Like absurdly too much.
First of all, prior to 100-150 years ago, women didn't decide anything.  About anything.  Ever. 
Men decided if they were going to be a couple or not.  And men, in this specific example, had no accountability, either.  The woman was saddled with the pregnancy.  If they both survived, the woman was saddled with the child.  And as a single mother, the woman was literally shunned and cast out of the family/village. 
Now, you could be suggesting that the culture came up with the witch in the forest religious story of judgement to dissuade both sides from producing this result, but there's a problem there.......men want to fuck and everyone knows we want to and will.
Insert the gender divide in islam to this day.

No one wants to shun their daughter or sister or whoever.  But that single mother may have begged and pleaded to be part of a couple.  She may have been duped beforehand by the unethical man.  She may be great until opening her mouth to talk and driven him away.  But none of that matters.  Thee man does and always has dictated whether or not a coupling occurred.  He may act aloof and drive her away, or lazy, aggressive, or may just move along and his infidelity would do it.  But it's his actions/inactions whether intentional or not that dictate the coupling.

Second, human history didn't exactly live in a single-family home.  Family groups grew into villages, and everyone was family or like family, so a single mother's child was raised by a group.  It was less of a problem back then.  This is mostly a last-50-years-American problem.  A luxury of a problem, if you will.
Everywhere else, they just go with it.  Whether it's sad, unfortunate, or banal, no matter.  They just move on about their lives.  That's all they can do.  But they're not basically required to have a full-time job to pay for an extra mouth to feed AND child care, when a tiny apartment costs 50% plus of her income.  At least back in the 80s, she could afford it.  No longer.

And if religion is strictly just some lesson to be learned, the lesson can be taught without the avalanche of baggage that comes with a god.
It's 2023.
This 2000 year old ball-and-chain needs to be released.  ALL of its positives can be recreated without ANY of its minuses.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 12, 2023, 02:41:01 PM

I often listen to podcasts and watch videos discussing atheism/religion and one thing often said by believers is how without religion, they fear they'd go around murdering and stealing and pillaging.  As if their belief in a god is the only thing that prevents it.
They simply can't fathom acting ethically without a god threatening them.
Do you know what would happen if they stopped believing?  Nothing.
They'd rape and murder and pillage just as much as they do now.  Not at all.  They simply lack self-confidence in their own self-control.  It's kind of funny.  Their fear is worse than the potential reality.

But that's kind of off-topic, sorry.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 13, 2023, 10:00:48 AM

Tyler Perry's New House - Epic 1,000 Acre Home in Georgia (madmansions.com) (https://madmansions.com/tyler-perrys-new-house/?fbclid=IwAR3ToraxwzfVWurJJOj2Fnny_816Bnl9RIk5-WQQlC-4gUOhCzeB0WMbIvg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 13, 2023, 10:12:54 AM

no idear who that is but he must have some $$$

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 13, 2023, 10:21:00 AM

He has been in the industry for years and contributed as an actor, writer, director, as well as a producer, but is mostly adored for his Madea franchise. According to multiple sources, Tyler Perry's net worth in 2023 is estimated at around $1 billion USD through his thriving career in the entertainment industry.

(https://i.imgur.com/9Rcvv69.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 13, 2023, 11:02:23 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 12, 2023, 02:37:11 PM

This 2000 year old ball-and-chain needs to be released.  ALL of its positives can be recreated without ANY of its minuses.

To me this sounds like the typical leftist refrain that Communism will work . . .
next time. 

Much like Communism, Atheism is theoretically great. I think that is why both are so popular among academics. Academically/Theoretically both make perfect sense. Obviously the reality hasn't been such a great experience. 

In the 19th Century Freud warned that due to atheism, the 20th would see some terrible things. Well Communists killed hundreds of millions. The somewhat less militantly atheistic Nazis couldn't match that but they did their best.

On a more micro level for literally thousands of years religion helped to minimize one-parent families. Now we have less religion and more one-parent families. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 13, 2023, 11:09:06 AM

The European wars in history were mostly between "Christian" nations fighting each other, of course with lower overall death rates for various reasons.  

And obviously religious beliefs existed long before 2,000 years ago.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 13, 2023, 11:33:42 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 11, 2023, 12:42:46 PM

Maybe a whole lot of societies figured out that single parent households were terrible building blocks for a successful society so they came up with "fairy tales" that demonized premarital sex simply to avoid single parent households.

We've effectively done away with the religion and discovered that there isn't REALLY a witch but without stopping to think that maybe the witch was just a stand-in for REAL dangers that are out there.

For thousands of years the "sinfulness" of non-marital sex helped to minimize single-parent households in sucessful societies all over the globe.  Even if the "sinfulness" isn't real, there are still detrimental outcomes that we haven't come up with an alternative method to minimize.

This feels like it's applying a very modern lens to history without a lot of context. 

It gives a lot of credit to "successful" societies. It discounts the fact that women were treated as de facto property for most of human history. It discounts the fact that an average "household" was five people living in a tiny hovel for most of human history. 

And even these "successful" societies had crime and violence and war and whatever else. 

I do think single-parent households lead to bad outcomes, and that the family unit is an important building block. But I also think most previous societies had a mess of problems, honestly more than we have now. They're different problems, but it's not as if they figured out how to root out premaital sex or single parenthood. They just attached more baggage to it.

And shoot, we could do that. If a man has a kid out of wedlock, his bank accounts are tied to the baby mama. He can't have his own (this would reflect older laws wherein a wife couldn't do a bunch of stuff without a husband's sign off). We could also look to folks in the middle east. Plenty of societies there that take a hard line on single parent households. Do we feel they're very successful?

(Interestingly, older societies also made it a sin to eat pig. They did so because it could kill you, a real good use of religious law. But today, people seem to have strayed)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 13, 2023, 12:08:53 PM

pig tastes good!

hasn't killed me yet

supposedly it's more healthy than beef

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 13, 2023, 01:05:44 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 13, 2023, 12:08:53 PM

pig tastes good!

hasn't killed me yet

supposedly it's more healthy than beef

You should read the reviews of pre-marital sex!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 13, 2023, 01:24:44 PM

hasn't killed me either

did get me a great daughter

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 13, 2023, 03:10:05 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 13, 2023, 11:02:23 AM

To me this sounds like the typical leftist refrain that Communism will work . . .
next time.

Much like Communism, Atheism is theoretically great. I think that is why both are so popular among academics. Academically/Theoretically both make perfect sense. Obviously the reality hasn't been such a great experience.

In the 19th Century Freud warned that due to atheism, the 20th would see some terrible things. Well Communists killed hundreds of millions. The somewhat less militantly atheistic Nazis couldn't match that but they did their best.

On a more micro level for literally thousands of years religion helped to minimize one-parent families. Now we have less religion and more one-parent families.

You have a very skewed "knowledge" of things.


Atheism is a take on one and only one claim.  It doesn't have a dogma, it's not a world view.  It's simply not being convinced that a god exists.  Just because a few influential people took that and ran with it, bastardizing it along the way, doesn't mean it's wrong or evil or bad.  Those individuals were/are wrong or evil or bad. 
It's like Nietzsche's super man....he was describing a renaissance man, not an aryan race tasked with exterminating Jews.  Hilter took the ball and ran with it, doing things unthinkable by Nietzsche.  He couldn't have fathomed what an individual would do by bastardizing his idea. 

It's nonsensical to DO anything in the name of atheism.  There's no there there.  It'd be like going out and invading Canada because you lack a belief in fairies.  It's the most absurd idea possible. 

Communism wants to put atheism under its umbrella because religion is a great big fat lie.  It says, "dont worry, if justice isn't served in this life, the bad people holding you down will suffer FOREVER after they die."  As if "this life" and "forever" mean a god damned thing, lol.  Communism simply (and sure, poorly) suggested that if everyone has an equal share, there's no need for such silly lies.

OMG, OAM is a Marxist!!!  Well, no.  I'm certain he held many tenants I'd disagree with, but we're living out a big one he's probably right about:  when the few have so much and the masses have so little, the shit is going to hit the fan.  To me, that's not a radical idea.  It's pretty predictable, imo. 

Anyway, you can say Hitler pushed athiest views (again, a nonsensical term) and I can say there's tons of evidence he was a christian.  But at least I'm honest and decent enough to know that he didn't do what he did in the name of christianity.  I know he might have killed a son if god told him to or he'd enslave those around him since the bible literally tells you to, etc......but doing what he did is not something a ho-hum christian would suggest.

You say atheism is theoretically great.  It's functionally great, too, when you're part of the 99.999999% of atheists who are nice, normal people.  I've had multiple people now tell me I'm the best christian they know, as a compliment.  I'm a good person because it's the right thing to be.  I simply don't need the threat of hell or promise of heaven.  And living forever, even in a paradise, sounds awful.

Religion was invented (yes, invented) by the meek to trick the powerful into fearing the reprisal of their unethical actions.  The meek couldn't fight off the bandits and warlords, so they tricked them.  They duped them into thinking natural processes (rain, lightning, floods, disease, droughts, earthquakes, infant mortality, etc) were controlled by the gods and that bad things happened because of their bad actions.  For simple people, that connection made sense, and it put a literal fear of god in them.  And the rest is history.  Except despite now knowing infinitely more about the world we live in, much of humanity still cling to that silly lie that while shrewd, was simply conjured by people just trying to live their lives without being erased by bigger, meaner, more savage people.
****I'm not using meek and powerful as negative and positive descriptors, respectively....meek as in unable to fight off attackers and attackers being bigger and more powerful and thus - good at attacking

I know for a fact that this post will receive all the eye-rolls, but it's reeeeeally unremarkable in my eyes and plain as day.  If you can't see it, that's cool.  You do you.  But atheism doesn't change you, it just frees you up.  If you're a good person believing in a god, you'd be a good person if you don't.  If you're a corrupt shithead child-molesting thief as a believer, you'll be the same as an atheist. 

(shrug)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 13, 2023, 05:17:35 PM

Hitler didn't leave much of his opinion on religion or economics around, I suspect they weren't of interest to him.  Folks like to claim he was a socialist because of the name.  I don't think he was, or much of anything.  I'd call his "System" more related to crony capitalism in extreme.  He sure liked the industrialists who could and would produce war materiel.  He didn't like communists, at all.

Some of his ranking officials dabbled in the occult and the old pagan rituals.  Some of the Nazy pageantry resembles some of those rituals and did have a cult like quality to them.  Hitler was pretty complex and not at all dumb.  His main theme rested on the superiority of the Aryan "race" of course, including folks living in GB and the Nordic countries and their need to lebensraum out East.  In June 1940, nearly any other British politician would have accepted Hitler's rather modest terms for peace and let Hitler turn east with a vengeance.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 14, 2023, 12:03:22 PM

The Biggest Pros And Cons Of Living In Each State | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/the-biggest-pros-and-cons-of-living-in-each-state?utm_source=The Babylon Bee)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 14, 2023, 12:11:10 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/6Iskpbo.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 14, 2023, 12:13:10 PM

I hate those things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 14, 2023, 12:55:14 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 13, 2023, 11:33:42 AM

This feels like it's applying a very modern lens to history without a lot of context.

It gives a lot of credit to "successful" societies. It discounts the fact that women were treated as de facto property for most of human history. It discounts the fact that an average "household" was five people living in a tiny hovel for most of human history.

And even these "successful" societies had crime and violence and war and whatever else.

I do think single-parent households lead to bad outcomes, and that the family unit is an important building block. But I also think most previous societies had a mess of problems, honestly more than we have now. They're different problems, but it's not as if they figured out how to root out premaital sex or single parenthood. They just attached more baggage to it.

And shoot, we could do that. If a man has a kid out of wedlock, his bank accounts are tied to the baby mama. He can't have his own (this would reflect older laws wherein a wife couldn't do a bunch of stuff without a husband's sign off). We could also look to folks in the middle east. Plenty of societies there that take a hard line on single parent households. Do we feel they're very successful?

(Interestingly, older societies also made it a sin to eat pig. They did so because it could kill you, a real good use of religious law. But today, people seem to have strayed)

I don't think it was so much about single-parent households. It was about hereditary succession and stability. It's why religion often had a blind eye for powerful men screwing around outside of marriage, but divorce wasn't allowed. Divorce is too messy from a societal aspect.

Amongst the elite, marriage was usually not about love--it was about families forging relationships with each other. 

And that's why women were treated as de facto property. Husbands led and supported the family. Wives produced offspring and cared for them. Each side had their "duty", and it didn't much matter whether they liked it or not, whether they were happy or not, or anything. But you do your duty and you conform. And religion gave you the rules to conform to. And one of those is "wives, obey your husbands" because it's a lot easier to have ONE decision maker than two. Same reason businesses don't have two CEOs, or the United States doesn't have two Presidents. It's messy. 

It's the same reason that in the Bible, there are a LOT of descriptions and rules about how you treat your slaves. What is okay and not okay with your slaves. How to handle it if you kill another man's slaves. Yet it doesn't say slavery is bad. 

Religion gives you rules to follow, usually in service of the needs of the elites in society at the time, and threatens you with horrible consequences for non-conformity. Some of those rules weren't exactly friendly to womens' needs, but since men ran the world, and wrote the rules, what did you think you'll get?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 14, 2023, 01:04:26 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 13, 2023, 11:02:23 AM

To me this sounds like the typical leftist refrain that Communism will work . . .
next time.

Much like Communism, Atheism is theoretically great. I think that is why both are so popular among academics. Academically/Theoretically both make perfect sense. Obviously the reality hasn't been such a great experience.

In the 19th Century Freud warned that due to atheism, the 20th would see some terrible things. Well Communists killed hundreds of millions. The somewhat less militantly atheistic Nazis couldn't match that but they did their best.

On a more micro level for literally thousands of years religion helped to minimize one-parent families. Now we have less religion and more one-parent families.

Authoritarian societies cannot have two masters to serve. It's a lesson that you know well from your points about Henry VIII. We had all that talk about the divine right of kings, but a conflict ensued when a King wanted to do one thing while the Pope said another. If you have two competing authorities, and they're in conflict, the people don't know which one to follow. So Henry VIII broke the Church of England away from Catholicism to unite the authorities within the English monarchy. 

Stalin and Mao understood this. The State has to not only be the primary, but the ONLY, authority for the people. They had the power to enforce their authority, and didn't need to rely on threats of eternal suffering for non-conformity when they had MORE than enough capability (and little compunction against) to enforce threats with earthly suffering. If you introduce something that conflicts, especially something that can offer eternal reward for adherence, it can give people hope that if the religion says one thing and the state says another, that the religion is the one to be followed. 

The idea was to create a vacuum of authority that can only be filled by the State. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 14, 2023, 01:41:01 PM

Interestingly, perhaps, the European Kings relied on religion to solidify their right to the throne.  When the French revolted, they also ejected religion and took over the churches.  All the churches in France even today are state owned, and marriages are civil affairs entirely (that can be followed by a religious service).  GB went the other way, and of course retains a monarchy.

A totalitarian state can exist with religion propping up said state.  That probably is more common in history than not.  The native Americans often had a chief and a religious leader.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 14, 2023, 02:01:14 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 14, 2023, 12:03:22 PM

The Biggest Pros And Cons Of Living In Each State | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/the-biggest-pros-and-cons-of-living-in-each-state?utm_source=The Babylon Bee)

Reading this, I was reminded of high school friends worked at KFC explaining about deboning unsold chicken to make pot pie.

You take the leftover corny jokes, scramble them all together into a bland listicle. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 14, 2023, 02:08:29 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 14, 2023, 02:01:14 PM

Reading this, I was reminded of high school friends worked at KFC explaining about deboning unsold chicken to make pot pie.

You take the leftover corny jokes, scramble them all together into a bland listicle.

Similarly, at a BBQ restaurant, brisket trimmings become "chopped beef on a bun."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 14, 2023, 02:09:55 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 14, 2023, 01:41:01 PM

Interestingly, perhaps, the European Kings relied on religion to solidify their right to the throne.  When the French revolted, they also ejected religion and took over the churches.  All the churches in France even today are state owned, and marriages are civil affairs entirely (that can be followed by a religious service).  GB went the other way, and of course retains a monarchy.

A totalitarian state can exist with religion propping up said state.  That probably is more common in history than not.  The native Americans often had a chief and a religious leader. 

I'd say that a portion of this is more due to history than anything else. The Catholic Church had dominant adherence in most of Europe. Being as powerful as it was, nation-states had to "play nice" with them for a very long time. They've had a relationship going back centuries. 

Russia didn't have that. Looking around Wikipedia, they had something like 500K Catholics at the time of the Bolshevik revolution. Which from the little I can tell of the Russian Empire from the googles, was well <1% of their population. Much easier to slough off a foreign authority structure. 

Also, I agree that a totalitarian state can exist with religion propping it up. But it's REALLY hard to do if that religion can't be controlled by said State, which is the case with Christianity. If it's Catholicism, it's a very organized outside group. If it's Christianity in general (Protestantism), it's more splintered but still outside of their control. A heck of a lot easier to get rid of it as a first strike and remove the threat. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 14, 2023, 02:18:18 PM

The Russkis had the Eastern Orthodox version far more than Roman Catholicism.  And they propped up the Tsars big time.

This has been a cozy relationship throughout much of history.  Each hand washed the other.

It avoids the question "Why does he get to be king anyway?".  I think in most earlier human cultures you'd find a "king" and a "shaman" operating the same way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 14, 2023, 03:59:52 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 14, 2023, 02:08:29 PM

Similarly, at a BBQ restaurant, brisket trimmings become "chopped beef on a bun."

It offends me down to my core when places only offer chopped brisket. (although, on a sandwich good brisket Chopt does have some advantages over sliced)

I live in an area where the preference of local rural barbecue places is to do chopped pork instead of pulled. This is also hot trash

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 14, 2023, 04:03:54 PM

If it's on a bun, I prefer chopped.

With pickles and onions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 14, 2023, 04:47:12 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 14, 2023, 03:59:52 PM

It offends me down to my core when places only offer chopped brisket. (although, on a sandwich good brisket Chopt does have some advantages over sliced)

I live in an area where the preference of local rural barbecue places is to do chopped pork instead of pulled. This is also hot trash

Here in Texico you'd never find a place that offers just chop and not sliced, because the chop is mostly just trimmings from the sliced.  It's just a way to monetize the waste.

Don't get me wrong, I love a good chopped beef sandwich. You just have to understand that it's probably 40%-50% fat, simmered in sauce.

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 14, 2023, 04:03:54 PM

If it's on a bun, I prefer chopped.

With pickles and onions.

Pickles are the devil. Pickled jalapenos, on the other hand, are delicious alongside onions on a chopped beef sandwich.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 15, 2023, 08:35:00 AM

I'd rather have my jalapenos grilled.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 15, 2023, 08:59:17 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 15, 2023, 08:35:00 AM

I'd rather have my jalapenos grilled.

That's good, too.  Either are acceptable.  Pickled cucumbers are the devil.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2023, 09:02:06 AM

The French make really delicious pickles.  They call them couches or something akin to that.  They make great mustard as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 15, 2023, 09:16:07 AM

From the WSJ:

Prominent Wall Street firms, including Goldman Sachs, Cohen & Steers, EQT Exeter and BGO, are raising billions of dollars for funds to target distressed assets and other real estate with slumping values, according to regulatory filings. Until recently, most sellers hadn’t been willing to cut their prices to the levels that buyers are demanding. Now, some office owners have begun to capitulate, unloading distressed properties to lenders or taking what they can get, rather than hold out hope for an eventual recovery. This wave of fundraising (https://10point.cmail19.com/t/d-l-vjdttjy-tdukikihdt-w/) is the latest sign that sales activity is expected to increase as more sellers yield on price.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 15, 2023, 10:09:51 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 15, 2023, 08:59:17 AM

That's good, too.  Either are acceptable.  Pickled cucumbers are the devil.

The devil worshippers must be right

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 15, 2023, 10:22:33 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 15, 2023, 10:09:51 AM

The devil worshippers must be right

Not sure if there are any religions that are anti-pickle, but if there... I guess I'm crossing that one off my list too. 

(Along with any religion that won't let me have pork, beer, or coffee.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 15, 2023, 11:28:17 AM

The 20 cities where home prices are dropping the most right now (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/the-20-cities-where-home-prices-are-dropping-the-most-right-now/ar-AA1fdiAU?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=a60ca0a2b6ae4d4faa502771a1d44c8d&ei=12)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 15, 2023, 01:12:51 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 15, 2023, 11:28:17 AM

The 20 cities where home prices are dropping the most right now (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/the-20-cities-where-home-prices-are-dropping-the-most-right-now/ar-AA1fdiAU?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=a60ca0a2b6ae4d4faa502771a1d44c8d&ei=12)

Interesting. A lot of CA there, but what's interesting is that unless one slipped by me, every single one of those is Bay Area, and not a single one in SoCal... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 15, 2023, 01:16:49 PM

Here's another one that just came up in my neighborhood.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/23322-Via-Burriana-Mission-Viejo-CA-92691/25627869_zpid/

For only a cool mil you, too, can have a 51 year old, 1370 square feet, 3/2 house on a postage stamp lot!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 15, 2023, 01:33:24 PM

But it's charming!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 15, 2023, 01:42:05 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 15, 2023, 01:12:51 PM

Interesting. A lot of CA there, but what's interesting is that unless one slipped by me, every single one of those is Bay Area, and not a single one in SoCal...

Yep, I noticed that too. Seattle area not faring much better.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2023, 01:42:15 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 15, 2023, 01:16:49 PM

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/23322-Via-Burriana-Mission-Viejo-CA-92691/25627869_zpid/

For only a cool mil you, too, can have a 51 year old, 1370 square feet, 3/2 house on a postage stamp lot!

My step daughter just bought one of thosein San Diego for about that much.  I think it's smaller.

Even around here prices seem stratospheric, this is a 3 bdr near me, built in 1910, property tax is almost $20 K, the lot is listed at 5,663 sf.  The lot, not the house.  $1.2M.

75 Inman Cir NE Unit 1233, Atlanta, GA 30309- Homes.com

 (https://www.homes.com/property/75-inman-cir-ne-atlanta-ga-unit-1233/hpmn8bhsbfr2e/?l=8mngncgpdcd9g)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 15, 2023, 01:47:45 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 15, 2023, 01:16:49 PM

Here's another one that just came up in my neighborhood.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/23322-Via-Burriana-Mission-Viejo-CA-92691/25627869_zpid/

For only a cool mil you, too, can have a 51 year old, 1370 square feet, 3/2 house on a postage stamp lot!

Nice open concept. I like the look.

Looks like the flipper bought it for $810K about a year ago. $188K increase means they probably spent around $100K on the reno, which likely means that the fixtures and cabinetry might not be all that great (made in China). Can't tell the appliance brand from the pictures. Looks like vinyl plank flooring, which is nice.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 15, 2023, 02:04:44 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 15, 2023, 01:47:45 PM

Nice open concept. I like the look.

Looks like the flipper bought it for $810K about a year ago. $188K increase means they probably spent around $100K on the reno, which likely means that the fixtures and cabinetry might not be all that great (made in China). Can't tell the appliance brand from the pictures. Looks like vinyl plank flooring, which is nice.

Yeah, same floorplan as where I live, with the exception that I don't have a "sitting room" beyond the kitchen. I *think* that was an addition and wasn't available on the original plans. 

If I owned this place rather than rented, I would do the same thing to open it up between the front room and the kitchen. I have a solid wall between the oven and the front room, with just a 5' wide 6'8" tall opening to walk through beyond the countertop. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 15, 2023, 04:22:02 PM

In panic mode after ruble plunges below a penny, Russia rescues Vladimir Putin from humiliating currency collapse with emergency hike (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/in-panic-mode-after-ruble-plunges-below-a-penny-russia-rescues-vladimir-putin-from-humiliating-currency-collapse-with-emergency-hike/ar-AA1fjelz?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=8d478afc4ec64a2a82d8a0826c9b57ad&ei=14)

How much longer can dickface last in power?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 15, 2023, 04:42:16 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 15, 2023, 04:22:02 PM

How much longer can dickface last in power?

You never know...

"Markets can remain irrational a lot longer than you and I can stay solvent."
-A. Gary Shilling

Even if everything points to him being a target for removal (i.e. motive), it's unclear when--or even if--something might happen (i.e. opportunity). 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 15, 2023, 05:25:55 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 15, 2023, 11:28:17 AM

The 20 cities where home prices are dropping the most right now (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/the-20-cities-where-home-prices-are-dropping-the-most-right-now/ar-AA1fdiAU?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=a60ca0a2b6ae4d4faa502771a1d44c8d&ei=12)

Love reading that 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 15, 2023, 05:58:52 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 15, 2023, 04:42:16 PM

 it's unclear when--or even if--something might happen (i.e. opportunity).

There's a reason he holds meetings at tables like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/kO6AjVi.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 16, 2023, 08:18:43 AM

Nice houses for relatively cheap in rural Nebraska 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 16, 2023, 08:40:15 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 15, 2023, 05:25:55 PM

Love reading that

Do you love why?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 16, 2023, 08:52:20 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 16, 2023, 08:40:15 AM

Do you love why?

I mean, I suppose I love basic economics, so I guess I would.

(I look forward to hearing about the why you're thinking of)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 16, 2023, 09:01:33 AM

Maybe over a few drinks sometime.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 16, 2023, 09:13:59 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 16, 2023, 09:01:33 AM

Maybe over a few drinks sometime.

I got the first round. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 16, 2023, 09:36:04 AM

I got the next 5 then.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 16, 2023, 10:18:41 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/r6Qjuz7.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 16, 2023, 10:20:09 AM

That ain't gonna be done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 16, 2023, 10:30:46 AM

It's Vandy-- will anyone really notice?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 16, 2023, 10:43:57 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 16, 2023, 10:30:46 AM

It's Vandy-- will anyone really notice?

I was gonna say no. But then I realized some parents might bring kids. And some kids love construction equipment. So yes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 16, 2023, 11:10:29 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 16, 2023, 10:43:57 AM

I was gonna say no. But then I realized some parents might bring kids. And some kids love construction equipment. So yes.

Just be sure to dress 'em for the occasion and let 'em have at it.

(https://i.imgur.com/4yyyEEj.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 16, 2023, 11:24:59 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 16, 2023, 10:43:57 AM

I was gonna say no. But then I realized some parents might bring kids. And some kids love construction equipment. So yes.

Not sure Vandy parents will let their kids play with construction toys. They might get the idea that they shouldn't be a lawyer or doctor. 

Let the Vol kids play with bulldozers, right? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 16, 2023, 11:29:15 AM

Good point.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 16, 2023, 01:24:11 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 16, 2023, 10:30:46 AM

It's Vandy-- will anyone really notice?

Vandy usually sells out SEC games ....  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 16, 2023, 02:08:53 PM

With opposing fans?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: jgvol on August 16, 2023, 02:16:30 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 16, 2023, 11:24:59 AM

Not sure Vandy parents will let their kids play with construction toys. They might get the idea that they shouldn't be a lawyer or doctor.

Let the Vol kids play with bulldozers, right?

We've been steamrolling them there for 100 years.  :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 16, 2023, 02:27:12 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 16, 2023, 11:24:59 AM

Not sure Vandy parents will let their kids play with construction toys. They might get the idea that they shouldn't be a lawyer or doctor.

Let the Vol kids play with bulldozers, right?

Children must like bulldozers to understand why they should own construction companies. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 16, 2023, 02:41:01 PM

I was and still am partial to backhoes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 16, 2023, 09:19:22 PM

I heard that about you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 16, 2023, 11:04:02 PM

Quote from: jgvol on August 16, 2023, 02:16:30 PM

We've been steamrolling them there for 100 years.  :)

I dunno in '17 & '18 Vandy won by 18 & 25 respectively. From 1892–1927, Vanderbilt went 19–2–3 against Tennessee.:cheer:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 17, 2023, 08:32:03 AM

Vandy has a winning record against Texas.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 17, 2023, 09:55:03 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 17, 2023, 08:32:03 AM

Vandy has a winning record against Texas.

Yes CD we are very much aware of that

thanks

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 18, 2023, 06:47:55 AM

Good idea.

NYC Kicks Off Plan to Rezone Midtown, Turn Offices to Houses (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/nyc-kicks-off-plan-to-rezone-midtown-turn-offices-to-houses/ar-AA1fpbe8?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=50eb896742cf44c5a79cb436cbf4bcca&ei=14)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 18, 2023, 09:00:18 AM

Grand jurors in Georgia Trump case face threats, racist attacks | The Hill (https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4156983-grand-jurors-in-trump-georgia-case-face-threats-racist-abuse/)

I guess this is predictable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 18, 2023, 09:38:31 AM

yup, not the first time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 18, 2023, 01:25:09 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/ndbph5A.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 18, 2023, 01:56:08 PM

I do not find that stadium very attractive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 18, 2023, 02:10:56 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 18, 2023, 01:56:08 PM

I do not find that stadium very attractive.

You would if it had a GMC logo on it.


;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 18, 2023, 02:46:58 PM

Quote from: TyphonInc on August 11, 2023, 01:22:45 PM

See ya on Monday?

Whether God is real or not, I think the No Sex till Marriage is/was a huge warning, that we as a modern society choose to ignore. ...
But we moderns know so much more than those silly backwater peasants, we have birth control and condoms.
And yet the percentage of people have abortions or having kids as a single parent has never been higher.
With all of our intelligence, we have lost our wisdom.

My dad always used to say that we had replaced a lot of things that worked with a lot of things that sounded good.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 18, 2023, 03:42:12 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 18, 2023, 01:56:08 PM

I do not find that stadium very attractive.

They offer cheap food inside.  It looks ok to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 18, 2023, 03:45:49 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 11, 2023, 06:25:01 PM

Right, it's only a race issue insofar as minorities are overrepresented in the lower economic classes, as medina points out.

BUT, that doesn't mean you can't address it through a racial approach.  There are pro-minority groups that already have the means and an audience.  Someone like the NAACP could assert itself in promoting the merits of the two-parent family, for example.

Ultimately I think we're already so far down this road then I'm not sure there's any way to reverse it.  Maybe we can slow it down. 

So I found this site with some numbers (https://www.childtrends.org/publications/dramatic-increase-in-percentage-of-births-outside-marriage-among-whites-hispanics-and-women-with-higher-education-levels).  It is a little dated but here is what they show:
Percent of births to unmarried mothers:
White:

• 15% in 1990
• 28% in 2016

Hispanic:

• 34% in 1990
• 52% in 2016

Black:

• 63% in 1990
• 69% in 2016

Then they break it by education:
<HS:

• 46% in 1990
• 62% in 2016

HS or GED:

• 29% in 1990
• 59% in 2016

Assoc Degree or some college:

• 17% in 1990
• 43% in 2016

Bachelor's Degree or higher:

• 5% in 1990
• 10% in 2016

Then they have a table that combines both race (at least black/white/hispanic) and education.  
(https://i.imgur.com/eV7cKjG.png)

The striking thing to me in all of this is that among white women with a college degree the percentage of unmarried mothers is in the single digits.  Basically white people with degrees are forming families the same way they were back when Leave it to Beaver and I Love Lucy were on TV.  

Hispanics have higher percentages of unmarried mothers at all education levels and blacks even higher still but the trend exists for all three and note that the percentage of black women with degrees who are single mothers is LOWER than the percentage for ANY group of white or hispanic women other than those with Bachelors degrees.  This, I think, supports my assertion that it is MUCH more of a class issue than a racial issue because higher class blacks are more similar to higher class whites than they are to lower class blacks.  Similarly, lower class whites are more similar to lower class hispanics and blacks than they are to upper class whites.  

One cruel irony in all of this is that the women who would be most able to successfully raise a child without a partner are the women who are the least likely to actually attempt it.  Conversely the women least able to successfully raise a child without a partner are the MOST likely to be in that situation.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 18, 2023, 03:46:10 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 18, 2023, 02:10:56 PM

You would if it had a GMC logo on it.


;)

Or Chevrolet or Cadillac.  Let's not discriminate.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 18, 2023, 03:46:14 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 12, 2023, 02:37:11 PM

I appreciate the post, but I think you're giving ancient societies WAAAYYYYYY too much credit here.  Like absurdly too much.
First of all, prior to 100-150 years ago, women didn't decide anything.  About anything.  Ever. 
Men decided if they were going to be a couple or not.  And men, in this specific example, had no accountability, either.  The woman was saddled with the pregnancy.  If they both survived, the woman was saddled with the child.  And as a single mother, the woman was literally shunned and cast out of the family/village. 
Now, you could be suggesting that the culture came up with the witch in the forest religious story of judgement to dissuade both sides from producing this result, but there's a problem there.......men want to fuck and everyone knows we want to and will.
Insert the gender divide in islam to this day.

Of course men want to . . . have intimate relationships.  I'm no prude and I'm not saying that I'm against pre-marital sex.  However, think of it this way:
When my dad was a teenager and a young and single marine (1953-1961) the question of intimate relationships was only ONE question:
Do you want to have sex and start a family?  

Today, of course, that is two questions.  The cultural norm is for people to have sex before they are married.  I assume that nearly everyone posting here did.  However, for some reason (see above figures in response to @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) ) the upper classes (defined by education) figured out how to do exactly that.  I doubt that reliable figures could be obtained but I think we all know that unmarried people had a LOT more sex in the 1980's-2020's than they did pre-pill and before generally legal abortion in the 1950's and early 1960's.  Among whites with college degrees this did NOT increase the number of unmarried mothers in any meaningful way.  The percentage I listed in the above post was just 7% for white women with degrees as of 2016.  

The problem is that among the lower classes marriage has more-or-less disappeared.  59%, 61%, and 82% respectively of white, hispanic, and black women without a HS diploma are unmarried when having kids.  

This cultural divide is catastrophic.  The kids born to HS dropout moms with no father in the picture face a massive uphill climb without anywhere near the support network that all of us here who are parents are able to provide for our kids.  

Your aside into women's rights is certainly an important issue but as it relates to societal function I'm not sure that it is all that important.  Society functions best with families raising kids rather than single moms.  Whether you get there by compelling the men to stay with a woman they knock up or providing the women with the choice but impressing on them that they need to have a long-term partner before they have kids, you get to the same end-point.  

I know enough history to know that the bulk of western European children have been raised in families for at least a millennia.  Ie, it worked.  Which brings me to:
Second, human history didn't exactly live in a single-family home.  Family groups grew into villages, and everyone was family or like family, so a single mother's child was raised by a group.  It was less of a problem back then.  This is mostly a last-50-years-American problem.  A luxury of a problem, if you will.
Everywhere else, they just go with it.  Whether it's sad, unfortunate, or banal, no matter.  They just move on about their lives.  That's all they can do.  But they're not basically required to have a full-time job to pay for an extra mouth to feed AND child care, when a tiny apartment costs 50% plus of her income.  At least back in the 80s, she could afford it.  No longer.

This was probably true for most of human history but I specifically referenced successful civilizations.  The way that humans lived before creating civilization isn't really germane to the topic at hand.  

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 12, 2023, 02:37:11 PM

And if religion is strictly just some lesson to be learned, the lesson can be taught without the avalanche of baggage that comes with a god.
It's 2023.
This 2000 year old ball-and-chain needs to be released.  ALL of its positives can be recreated without ANY of its minuses.

Well, how?  It most certainly hasn't been.  We HAD a system that helped to minimize single-parent situations and it worked for literally thousands of years.  When we dropped it the upper classes still continued by-and-large to have kids as married couples but the HS dropouts:
White:

• 38% of mothers unwed in 1990
• 59% of mothers unwed in 2016.  

Hispanic:

• 41% of mothers unwed in 1990
• 61% of mothers unwed in 2016.  

Black:

• 82% of mothers unwed in 1990
• 82% of mothers unwed in 2016.  

Husbands/fathers in the ghettos (not just black, this includes poor hispanics and whites) of America today are basically unicorns.  Everyone has heard of them and knows conceptually what they are but confirmed sightings are rare events.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 18, 2023, 03:46:30 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 13, 2023, 03:10:05 PM

You have a very skewed "knowledge" of things.

Atheism is a take on one and only one claim.  It doesn't have a dogma, it's not a world view.  It's simply not being convinced that a god exists.  Just because a few influential people took that and ran with it, bastardizing it along the way, doesn't mean it's wrong or evil or bad.  Those individuals were/are wrong or evil or bad. 
It's like Nietzsche's super man....he was describing a renaissance man, not an aryan race tasked with exterminating Jews.  Hilter took the ball and ran with it, doing things unthinkable by Nietzsche.  He couldn't have fathomed what an individual would do by bastardizing his idea. 

It's nonsensical to DO anything in the name of atheism.  There's no there there.  It'd be like going out and invading Canada because you lack a belief in fairies.  It's the most absurd idea possible. 

Communism wants to put atheism under its umbrella because religion is a great big fat lie.  It says, "dont worry, if justice isn't served in this life, the bad people holding you down will suffer FOREVER after they die."  As if "this life" and "forever" mean a god damned thing, lol.  Communism simply (and sure, poorly) suggested that if everyone has an equal share, there's no need for such silly lies.

OMG, OAM is a Marxist!!!  Well, no.  I'm certain he held many tenants I'd disagree with, but we're living out a big one he's probably right about:  when the few have so much and the masses have so little, the shit is going to hit the fan.  To me, that's not a radical idea.  It's pretty predictable, imo. 

Anyway, you can say Hitler pushed athiest views (again, a nonsensical term) and I can say there's tons of evidence he was a christian.  But at least I'm honest and decent enough to know that he didn't do what he did in the name of christianity.  I know he might have killed a son if god told him to or he'd enslave those around him since the bible literally tells you to, etc......but doing what he did is not something a ho-hum christian would suggest.

You say atheism is theoretically great.  It's functionally great, too, when you're part of the 99.999999% of atheists who are nice, normal people.  I've had multiple people now tell me I'm the best christian they know, as a compliment.  I'm a good person because it's the right thing to be.  I simply don't need the threat of hell or promise of heaven.  And living forever, even in a paradise, sounds awful.

Religion was invented (yes, invented) by the meek to trick the powerful into fearing the reprisal of their unethical actions.  The meek couldn't fight off the bandits and warlords, so they tricked them.  They duped them into thinking natural processes (rain, lightning, floods, disease, droughts, earthquakes, infant mortality, etc) were controlled by the gods and that bad things happened because of their bad actions.  For simple people, that connection made sense, and it put a literal fear of god in them.  And the rest is history.  Except despite now knowing infinitely more about the world we live in, much of humanity still cling to that silly lie that while shrewd, was simply conjured by people just trying to live their lives without being erased by bigger, meaner, more savage people.
****I'm not using meek and powerful as negative and positive descriptors, respectively....meek as in unable to fight off attackers and attackers being bigger and more powerful and thus - good at attacking

I know for a fact that this post will receive all the eye-rolls, but it's reeeeeally unremarkable in my eyes and plain as day.  If you can't see it, that's cool.  You do you.  But atheism doesn't change you, it just frees you up.  If you're a good person believing in a god, you'd be a good person if you don't.  If you're a corrupt shithead child-molesting thief as a believer, you'll be the same as an atheist. 

(shrug)

First of all, I agree at least generally that if you are a crappy person you'll be a crappy person and if you are a good person you'll be a good person irrespective of your belief or lack of belief in a divine being.  However, I will say that I think you are trying to have it both ways here because I've seen you blame religion for countless wars and my view is that with VERY few exceptions those wars had a lot more to do with secular issues with religion just tacked on as extra justification.  Ie, the people who prosecuted those wars generally would have irrespective of their religious beliefs.  You admitted as much in the context of Hitler while trying to claim he was a Christian but your "tons of evidence he was a Christian" would conflict with the facts that he was not known to have attended and I've read a lot about the final days in the bunker and I've NEVER seen any mention of the guy who KNEW he was going to die very soon asking to see a Priest or Minister.  That, to me, is a pretty clear indication.  Someone who KNOWS they are about to die and who believes in a divine being is going to want to prepare to meet that divine being, Hitler didn't.  

I think that @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) 's take on communism's atheism is a lot closer to the mark than yours.  You say they just jettisoned it because "it is a big fat lie" makes no sense because if that was all there was to it, why bother?  Why inflame opposition among the huge portion of the population who were believers when a substantial portion of those believers might otherwise support your economic theories? 

I read a book about the Catholic Church's dealings in the run-up to WWII and having an understanding of the time is very helpful.  When it got to the point where it was more-or-less unavoidable that Germany's democracy was going to be replaced by either Nazi's or Communists, the Catholics were compelled to lean Nazi if for no other reason than that the devil you know is worse than the devil you don't.  They had seen what the Soviets did to religious leaders and adherents.  They KNEW what that looked like.  If the communists hadn't been so militantly atheist, they may have taken over Germany.  Their atheism cost them the chance.  The idea that they did that just because they believed that religion was a big fat lie is simply preposterous.  

Communists were atheists because they saw a belief in something bigger than the state as an existential threat.  THAT was why they couldn't just jettison their atheism when it suited their goals.  

Freud's warning came true.  I think it was in part because he understood that once religion was removed there was no higher power on which to rely when questioning the state.  That helped the Nazi's and Communists to prosecute their 20th century crimes because their subjects didn't have a higher power to appeal to.  Note in this context that while the Nazi's were not as militantly atheistic as the communists nearly all high-ranking Nazi's were at most agnostic.  Himmler dabbled in pagan religions and the occult, Hitler said almost nothing on religion (probably by design).  I'm sure there were a great number of Nazi functionaries who regularly attended Catholic or Protestant services but I know of no upper-level Nazis who did.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 18, 2023, 03:56:17 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 13, 2023, 11:33:42 AM

This feels like it's applying a very modern lens to history without a lot of context.

It gives a lot of credit to "successful" societies. It discounts the fact that women were treated as de facto property for most of human history. It discounts the fact that an average "household" was five people living in a tiny hovel for most of human history.

And even these "successful" societies had crime and violence and war and whatever else.

I do think single-parent households lead to bad outcomes, and that the family unit is an important building block. But I also think most previous societies had a mess of problems, honestly more than we have now. They're different problems, but it's not as if they figured out how to root out premaital sex or single parenthood. They just attached more baggage to it.

And shoot, we could do that. If a man has a kid out of wedlock, his bank accounts are tied to the baby mama. He can't have his own (this would reflect older laws wherein a wife couldn't do a bunch of stuff without a husband's sign off). We could also look to folks in the middle east. Plenty of societies there that take a hard line on single parent households. Do we feel they're very successful?

(Interestingly, older societies also made it a sin to eat pig. They did so because it could kill you, a real good use of religious law. But today, people seem to have strayed)

As I said in response to @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) , I think the women's rights issue is a sideline compared to the overall question of how society raises their next generations.  On a micro level it is obviously incredibly important but on a macro level the question is whether or not you have families and how you achieved that result is inconsequential.  

Of course successful societies have crime and violence and war and whatever else but it is a question of degree.  A successful society can deal with a certain amount of disruption but there is a tipping point.  

The concept that single-parent households lead to bad outcomes isn't an opinion, it is a well documented fact.  Of course there are exceptions but the overall numbers make it clear that this is NOT the best way to raise children.  

Older societies (religions) had rules against eating pigs because it could kill you and they didn't understand why.  

That brings me back to my Hansel and Gretel example that I started this whole chain with.  As I see it, our society without religion is like my four year old and a bunch of his friends standing at the edge of a forest and scared to wander into it because they've heard that a witch lives in the forest who wants to fatten them up and eat them.  Then they suddenly realize that the witch isn't real and take off into the forest.  

Even though we all agree that the witch isn't real, we still don't want four year olds running off into the forest.  It is the same thing here.  Even if we all concede for the sake of discussion that religion isn't real, we still need to be more careful in how that impacts our actions.  We still don't want four year olds running into the forest and single-parent households still lead to bad outcomes even if the reasons aren't the witch and sin.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 18, 2023, 04:00:58 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 18, 2023, 03:45:49 PM

This, I think, supports my assertion that it is MUCH more of a class issue than a racial issue because higher class blacks are more similar to higher class whites than they are to lower class blacks.  Similarly, lower class whites are more similar to lower class hispanics and blacks than they are to upper class whites. 

One cruel irony in all of this is that the women who would be most able to successfully raise a child without a partner are the women who are the least likely to actually attempt it.  Conversely the women least able to successfully raise a child without a partner are the MOST likely to be in that situation. 

Very well summarized and stated.

And while I agree it's a cruel irony,  it's not by happenstance that this is the case.  Because the women who would be most able to successfully raise a child without a partner, are the women who are smart enough to know they don't really want to attempt to do so.  

I dated a girl in college who was wild, a total firecracker-- in the parlance of the kids these days, she was DTF at any time, in almost any environment.  She was also a 4.0 Chemical Engineering pre-med student who went on to become a very successful plastic surgeon in NYC.  And every time we hooked up, she insisted on at least two forms of birth control.  She knew exactly what risks an unwanted pregnancy posed to her future plans.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 18, 2023, 04:03:04 PM

Some deep stuff here.

And very good exchanges.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 18, 2023, 04:12:13 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 18, 2023, 04:03:04 PM

Some deep stuff here.

And very good exchanges.

Well, it's certainly no "Is a Hamburger a Sandwich" discussion, but I guess it's alright.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 18, 2023, 04:16:52 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 18, 2023, 04:00:58 PM

Very well summarized and stated.

And while I agree it's a cruel irony,  it's not by happenstance that this is the case.  Because the women who would be most able to successfully raise a child without a partner, are the women who are smart enough to know they don't really want to attempt to do so. 

I dated a girl in college who was wild, a total firecracker-- in the parlance of the kids these days, she was DTF at any time, in almost any environment.  She was also a 4.0 Chemical Engineering pre-med student who went on to become a very successful plastic surgeon in NYC.  And every time we hooked up, she insisted on at least two forms of birth control.  She knew exactly what risks an unwanted pregnancy posed to her future plans.

It is most definitely not happenstance. As the #'s I provided show, the upper classes (You and the future Plastic Surgeon) have figured out how to have all the sex they want without having more than a trivial number of unwanted children. The lower classes weren't able to make that leap.

This brings me to my underlying reason for being interested in the topic. As the #'s show, the vast majority of mothers with bachelor's degrees are married when they have kids and the vast majority of HS dropout mothers aren't.

That reality pours gasoline on the fire that is the discrepancy between the upper and lower classes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 18, 2023, 04:30:12 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 18, 2023, 04:16:52 PM

That reality pours gasoline on the fire that is the discrepancy between the upper and lower classes.

This ties into another problem in our modern society:

As I see it, technology is increasingly eliminating (or reducing) the number of middle class jobs.

As I understand it, @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) is a Civil Engineer and I know enough about that to at least use it as an example so for my example I'll use accounting (my profession) and Civil Engineering:

50+ years ago a Civil Engineers office would have needed three classes of employees to function:

• Upper class, college educated: The actual Engineers like Badge.
• Middle class, generally HS or maybe some technical education beyond HS: Basically draftsman.
• Lower class, HS or less: Janitors to empty trash and scrub toilets.

It was similar in an accounting office half a Century ago:

• Upper class, college educated: The actual accountants like me.
• Middle class, generally HS or maybe some beyond HS: Bookkeepers.
• Lower class, HS or less: Janitors to empty trash and scrub toilets.

In today's offices we still need #1 and #3. There are still Engineers/Accountants and we still need Janitors but the drafting and number crunching people have mostly been replaced by CAD/Excel.

This, IMHO, is a major problem for society because the middle class was a bridge. They had shared concerns with both the upper and the lower classes. As they become less and less prevalent there is an ever-widening gap between the Engineers/Accountants and their Janitors.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 18, 2023, 04:32:24 PM

It's okay, I allow my janitors to eat cake.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 18, 2023, 04:35:28 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 18, 2023, 04:30:12 PM

This ties into another problem in our modern society:

As I see it, technology is increasingly eliminating (or reducing) the number of middle class jobs.

As I understand it, @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) is a Civil Engineer and I know enough about that to at least use it as an example so for my example I'll use accounting (my profession) and Civil Engineering:

50+ years ago a Civil Engineers office would have needed three classes of employees to function:

• Upper class, college educated: The actual Engineers like Badge.
• Middle class, generally HS or maybe some technical education beyond HS: Basically draftsman.
• Lower class, HS or less: Janitors to empty trash and scrub toilets.

It was similar in an accounting office half a Century ago:

• Upper class, college educated: The actual accountants like me.
• Middle class, generally HS or maybe some beyond HS: Bookkeepers.
• Lower class, HS or less: Janitors to empty trash and scrub toilets.

In today's offices we still need #1 and #3. There are still Engineers/Accountants and we still need Janitors but the drafting and number crunching people have mostly been replaced by CAD/Excel.

This, IMHO, is a major problem for society because the middle class was a bridge. They had shared concerns with both the upper and the lower classes. As they become less and less prevalent there is an ever-widening gap between the Engineers/Accountants and their Janitors.

I'm not sure it's so much an elimination of jobs, as a redistribution of them.  Because along with CAD and Excel (distributed and scaled across ever-larger organizations), came a large amount of IT infrastructure, and the IT specialists that are associated with that.

However, I don't think that disproves your point-- when it comes to socioeconomic class, the IT specialists are going to be more like the engineers and accountants, than they are like the janitors.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 18, 2023, 04:51:38 PM

It's a matter of 'when not if' Apple buys ESPN, says Wedbush's Dan Ives (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/video/2023/08/16/its-a-matter-of-when-not-if-apple-buys-espn-says-wedbushs-dan-ives.html?&recirc=taboolainternal)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 18, 2023, 05:02:03 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 18, 2023, 03:46:14 PM

This was probably true for most of human history but I specifically referenced successful civilizations.  The way that humans lived before creating civilization isn't really germane to the topic at hand.  Well, how?  It most certainly hasn't been.  We HAD a system that helped to minimize single-parent situations and it worked for literally thousands of years.  When we dropped it the upper classes still continued by-and-large to have kids as married couples but the HS dropouts:

Big issue I've got here is that to an extent I think you're creating a concept of a "we" that "acts". 

"We" didn't have a system. Religion existed, a lot of people in America believed in it, and so more people conformed to religious norms than today. But "we" didn't drop it. Religion still existed, fewer people in America believed in it, and so fewer people conformed to religious norms than before. 

Nobody decided to change the system. People individually changed. And now you're looking at aggregate statistics of the results of that change as if the "system" changed.

---------------------

Second thing I'd say is that I highly doubt we can point to the rise in unmarried mothers as being due to a lack of religion. You do point out some increases in single mother families across demographics, but those increases MASSIVELY dwarf any rise in atheism.

This is particularly egregious from a statistical standpoint because religious belief seems to be more sticky in the lower classes:

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/income-distribution/

For people with household incomes <$50K, 85% believe with absolute or reasonable certainty that god exists. That number drops to 75% with the >$100K crowd, and the number that affirmatively state they don't believe has jumped from 7-9% for those <$50K up to 14% >$100K.

IMHO a growth in the lack of religious belief may be *a* factor in what is going on, but it doesn't seem, demographically, likely to be the *dominant* factor.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 18, 2023, 05:33:09 PM

I don't think it's "due to a rise in atheism" but it is almost certainly due to a "decrease in strict adherence to religious norms."  

Functionally, I don't think one attributed cause is any different than the other.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 18, 2023, 07:27:51 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 18, 2023, 04:51:38 PM

It's a matter of 'when not if' Apple buys ESPN, says Wedbush's Dan Ives (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/video/2023/08/16/its-a-matter-of-when-not-if-apple-buys-espn-says-wedbushs-dan-ives.html?&recirc=taboolainternal)

So the PAC 10? should have taken the AppleTV deal, parlayed it into a sweetheart ESPN deal and added UNC, UVA, and ND?!?!?!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 18, 2023, 07:34:55 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 18, 2023, 05:02:03 PM

Big issue I've got here is that to an extent I think you're creating a concept of a "we" that "acts".

"We" didn't have a system. Religion existed, a lot of people in America believed in it, and so more people conformed to religious norms than today. But "we" didn't drop it. Religion still existed, fewer people in America believed in it, and so fewer people conformed to religious norms than before.

Nobody decided to change the system. People individually changed. And now you're looking at aggregate statistics of the results of that change as if the "system" changed.

---------------------

Second thing I'd say is that I highly doubt we can point to the rise in unmarried mothers as being due to a lack of religion. You do point out some increases in single mother families across demographics, but those increases MASSIVELY dwarf any rise in atheism.

This is particularly egregious from a statistical standpoint because religious belief seems to be more sticky in the lower classes:

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/income-distribution/

For people with household incomes <$50K, 85% believe with absolute or reasonable certainty that god exists. That number drops to 75% with the >$100K crowd, and the number that affirmatively state they don't believe has jumped from 7-9% for those <$50K up to 14% >$100K.

IMHO a growth in the lack of religious belief may be *a* factor in what is going on, but it doesn't seem, demographically, likely to be the *dominant* factor.

Yeah.

Most of the icky or unfortunate portions of our populace are of the most religious ilk.  I'd even link it to the poor people buying lottery tickets.
They're not dumb, they can see that there will be no fairness or actual justice in their lifetimes.  They realize they're stuck and the only way they'll celebrate in shangri-la is in an afterlife.  The only place they can rest easy is in heaven.

Prisons are like 98/2 religious to non-religious.  The general pop is like 84/16 or 80/20.  
Poor single mothers, minorities, etc are all more religious than the overall general population.  That could just be a stat, but it's not...it's part of the problem.
A believer who prays and thinks the invisible man in the sky is one day going to help them isn't going to DO much.  Just waiting.  Hoping.  Praying.  Waiting.  
The people who need to be the most proactive become the least.  It's sad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 18, 2023, 07:37:41 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 18, 2023, 03:45:49 PM

One cruel irony in all of this is that the women who would be most able to successfully raise a child without a partner are the women who are the least likely to actually attempt it.  Conversely the women least able to successfully raise a child without a partner are the MOST likely to be in that situation. 

Sort of like potential presidential candidates.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 18, 2023, 08:00:17 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 18, 2023, 03:46:14 PM

Let's find a way to get poor people's needs and wants taken care of so that they can begin to put their energies into some important, peripheral aspects of their lives.

I was thinking more about this last, important point of a previous post.

Way back when, you could simply go out into the world and live.  You could create your own home, grow and hunt your own food.  It was a big, wide open world.

Then we settled the whole country and chopped up the land into parcels and now everywhere belongs to someone.  You can't go out and make your own way like before. 
With this total land ownership, everyone was then automatically opted-in to a system where money matters most.

Our system requires (for the most part) that you do well in school when you're a young person.  Education isn't valued in your home?  Tough shit.  You lose.  You'll still work hard, likely harder than those who did well in school.  You'll work harder and for less money until you die.

If we're all opted into a system in which a certain amount of money is required to live, then that should be the minimum everyone has or starts from.
I think it's the best case for UBI.  Just get people to a financial level that they're able to care about wearing condoms and caring about their neighbors and instilling a value for education in one's children.

This has nothing to do with ethics or a lack thereof.  Plenty of great people are poor and work hard.  Even if they try to emphasize education to their children, the lack of evidence in their daily lives makes it a hard message to believe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 18, 2023, 08:09:59 PM

That post was kind of all over the place and I don't even think I tied it into medina's reply, but I'm tired.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 18, 2023, 10:02:06 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 18, 2023, 05:33:09 PM

I don't think it's "due to a rise in atheism" but it is almost certainly due to a "decrease in strict adherence to religious norms." 

Functionally, I don't think one attributed cause is any different than the other.

This, exactly.

It isn't so much a micro issue of individual religiosity, it is a macro/cultural issue. Our culture used to insist, largely for religious reasons, that premarital sex was wrong. Now our culture is MUCH less religious and no longer makes that assertion.

Aa it turns out that change had no real bearing among the upper classes. Your anecdote above matches the data. Future Plastic Surgeons are smart enough such that the cultural guidance was unnecessary as demonstrated by the fact that white women with college degrees are almost always (93%) married when they have children.

HS dropouts, OTOH, DID need that guidance. We stopped providing it and now white, hispanic, and black HS dropouts are unmarried when having children 59%, 61%, and 82% of the time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 18, 2023, 10:29:47 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 18, 2023, 07:34:55 PM

Prisons are like 98/2 religious to non-religious.  The general pop is like 84/16 or 80/20. 
Poor single mothers, minorities, etc are all more religious than the overall general population.  That could just be a stat, but it's not...it's part of the problem.
A believer who prays and thinks the invisible man in the sky is one day going to help them isn't going to DO much.  Just waiting.  Hoping.  Praying.  Waiting. 

it's just a stat

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on August 18, 2023, 10:38:08 PM

Went to a HS football game tonight.   Very little has changed in terms of the social experience in my 4 decades of going. 

Kids running around the perimeter,   side games of catch.  Social moms dressed to impress.   Intense Dads watching along the fence at field level.  One team always fielding a God awful kicker somehow.

I'd say 90% of middle/high school Kids wear all white sneakers these days.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 18, 2023, 10:40:36 PM

Social moms dressed to impress

nice!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 18, 2023, 10:46:38 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 18, 2023, 08:00:17 PM

2 - poor people don't give a shit about anything but their next x-minutes of life.

My hypothesis for number 2 is that when your needs aren't met/are up in the air you drop all of the other peripheral stuff.  All of it.
They don't plan.  Because they're inherently poor planners?  No, because they have so little in their lives that is enduring/consistent that planning is a perceived waste of time.

The causation arrow is actually a pretty important question. Are they poor planners because they are poor or are they poor because they are poor planners?

Frankly, I think you are absolutely wrong on this. @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) 's future Plastic Surgeon was ALWAYS pretty good at planning. That is why she didn't get herself knocked up and it is also part of the reason she expended the time and effort to become a Plastic Surgeon.

The ones who are even remotely decent at planning aren't in the poor areas because they got themselves out.

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 18, 2023, 08:00:17 PM

Aside from that, sorry, if the effective 2-parent household relies on believing in the invisible man in the sky, no thanks.

I said from the beginning that for the sake of discussion I'll meet on your terms and just assume that religion isn't real and yet you still feel the need to repeatedly demean every believer with your "invisible man in the sky" comments.

Whatever.

My point is that even under the assumption that you are right, we've effectively thrown out the baby with the bathwater.

As I explained it metaphorically, even though the witch from Hansel and Gretl isn't real, we still don't want four year olds running off into the woods. Similarly, even if the "sin" of premarital sex isn't real, we still are worse off as a society with single parents raising kids.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 18, 2023, 10:56:33 PM

obviously, the "Church" is not innocent

obviously, the Church is not the root of all evil

greed and coveting of $$$ is changing college football

Religion is not

except maybe for BYU and ND

they don't really move the needle 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 01:30:03 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 18, 2023, 10:46:38 PM

The causation arrow is actually a pretty important question. Are they poor planners because they are poor or are they poor because they are poor planners?

Frankly, I think you are absolutely wrong on this. @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) 's future Plastic Surgeon was ALWAYS pretty good at planning. That is why she didn't get herself knocked up and it is also part of the reason she expended the time and effort to become a Plastic Surgeon.

The ones who are even remotely decent at planning aren't in the poor areas because they got themselves out.I said from the beginning that for the sake of discussion I'll meet on your terms and just assume that religion isn't real and yet you still feel the need to repeatedly demean every believer with your "invisible man in the sky" comments.

Whatever.

My point is that even under the assumption that you are right, we've effectively thrown out the baby with the bathwater.

As I explained it metaphorically, even though the witch from Hansel and Gretl isn't real, we still don't want four year olds running off into the woods. Similarly, even if the "sin" of premarital sex isn't real, we still are worse off as a society with single parents raising kids.

The plastic surgeon likely had 2 college grads for parents modeling planning.  But you miss the point - it's not about being a good planner or not, it's that poor people don't feel they have the luxury of planning.  It's the same reason they don't have stamp collections or let another car in ahead of them in traffic.  They live in the now because either they have to or feel they have to.

Premarital sex doesn't cause single mothers, unprotected sex does.  

And I'm not demeaning anyone.  I'm demeaning an absurd idea.  Myths are simply past religions.  At some point, the masses won't require them.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 01:39:57 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 18, 2023, 10:29:47 PM

it's just a stat

Explain that.

Yes, the college educated people create 2-parent homes, but they also have less religious belief.  
Coincidence?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 02:02:19 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 18, 2023, 08:00:17 PM

I was thinking more about this last, important point of a previous post.

Way back when, you could simply go out into the world and live.  You could create your own home, grow and hunt your own food.  It was a big, wide open world.

Then we settled the whole country and chopped up the land into parcels and now everywhere belongs to someone.  You can't go out and make your own way like before. 
With this total land ownership, everyone was then automatically opted-in to a system where money matters most.

Our system requires (for the most part) that you do well in school when you're a young person.  Education isn't valued in your home?  Tough shit.  You lose.  You'll still work hard, likely harder than those who did well in school.  You'll work harder and for less money until you die.

If we're all opted into a system in which a certain amount of money is required to live, then that should be the minimum everyone has or starts from.
I think it's the best case for UBI.  Just get people to a financial level that they're able to care about wearing condoms and caring about their neighbors and instilling a value for education in one's children.

This has nothing to do with ethics or a lack thereof.  Plenty of great people are poor and work hard.  Even if they try to emphasize education to their children, the lack of evidence in their daily lives makes it a hard message to believe.

This posted upthread somehow, but it's my latest post.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2023, 06:48:16 AM

When I was a kid, divorce was nearly unthinkable, and scandalous.  If a girl in HS got pregnant, she went somewhere else.  That was scandalous, I don't recall knowing anyone who had that happen.  I think it was more social norms than religion (though the two intersect).

By the time I was married, divorce, fortunately for me, was more the norm.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2023, 07:22:43 AM

The College Football Offseason Support Group - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL6POF-a5iU)

One of the better ones I think ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 19, 2023, 07:50:27 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 01:39:57 AM

Explain that.

Yes, the college educated people create 2-parent homes, but they also have less religious belief. 
Coincidence?

yes, Coincidence

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 19, 2023, 08:11:03 AM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/366816871_697995392341611_4784716319151894217_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=WH4gKhPoRXMAX-lWD7u&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAzL1yWmSeJJpSV9slY9f_JJvJtaw7S_CYu3OOh38mUlA&oe=64E63319)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 19, 2023, 08:35:41 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 18, 2023, 04:30:12 PM

This ties into another problem in our modern society:

As I see it, technology is increasingly eliminating (or reducing) the number of middle class jobs.

As I understand it, @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) is a Civil Engineer and I know enough about that to at least use it as an example so for my example I'll use accounting (my profession) and Civil Engineering:

50+ years ago a Civil Engineers office would have needed three classes of employees to function:

• Upper class, college educated: The actual Engineers like Badge.
• Middle class, generally HS or maybe some technical education beyond HS: Basically draftsman.
• Lower class, HS or less: Janitors to empty trash and scrub toilets.

It was similar in an accounting office half a Century ago:

• Upper class, college educated: The actual accountants like me.
• Middle class, generally HS or maybe some beyond HS: Bookkeepers.
• Lower class, HS or less: Janitors to empty trash and scrub toilets.

In today's offices we still need #1 and #3. There are still Engineers/Accountants and we still need Janitors but the drafting and number crunching people have mostly been replaced by CAD/Excel.

This, IMHO, is a major problem for society because the middle class was a bridge. They had shared concerns with both the upper and the lower classes. As they become less and less prevalent there is an ever-widening gap between the Engineers/Accountants and their Janitors.

Honestly, we do have people with tech education working for us. They are CAD operators and survey technicians. Most of the latter work outside, collecting data or pounding stakes in the ground for construction. They are highly compensated.

We have a cleaning service every Saturday. If your personal trash is full before that, you take it to the dumpster outside.

Trucks are inspected randomly for cleanliness.

We're kinda old school.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 19, 2023, 08:56:11 AM

I love how my former college girlfriend and now plastic surgeon has become such an integral part of the discussion.  I haven't actually thought about her in years.  Good times though, that's for sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 19, 2023, 09:11:46 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 18, 2023, 10:02:06 PM

It isn't so much a micro issue of individual religiosity, it is a macro/cultural issue. Our culture used to insist, largely for religious reasons, that premarital sex was wrong. Now our culture is MUCH less religious and no longer makes that assertion.

Are you sure that it has much of anything to do with religiosity? 

Or could it be MUCH more due to the pill and the women's lib movement?

Roundabout the 1960s, we started telling women they have agency and they should be in control of their own decisions. That desiring sex was actually natural and something they shouldn't be ashamed of. And that about that time, we gave them a very easy and reliable contraceptive that gave them the OPTION to have sex w/o having kids.  

I think it's far more likely that those two things were dominant factors, and a reduction in religiosity is a smaller factor. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2023, 09:14:13 AM

I think it reflects more societal pressures than religiosity, though the two are conflated of course.  

I think today some younger women are both religious in some sense and sexually active outside marriage.  I knew a few like that back in the day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 19, 2023, 09:28:54 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 01:30:03 AM

And I'm not demeaning anyone.  I'm demeaning an absurd idea.  Myths are simply past religions.  At some point, the masses won't require them. 

If you think the masses don't require myths, you have a higher opinion of humanity than I do. But the way I have heard you deride the masses, I actually don't think you have a very high opinion of them, so I'll dig in. 

People, especially "the masses", often don't have the time or inclination to think for themselves. They have agency to decide plenty of things in their life. Whether/where to go to college. What job they want to do. Who they want to marry. But when it comes to the BIG questions, very few people in this world are truly philosophical and can handle the idea that "it's all made up bullshit and I have to face a world that is almost entirely myth-based."

So they NEED myths. They CRAVE it. The myths underpinning society are the only reason we have society. 

Now, you may say that religion are old-school myths, out of date, and not based on objective reality (i.e. existence of the invisible man in the sky). Upon that, I agree. However, they were for a very long time, VERY effective at giving people a stable and clear idea of how to act in the world (morals/ethics), an authority structure to follow (clergy), and an unfalsifiable reward/punishment system built in to enforce compliance (heaven/hell). 

But if you eliminate religion, you have NOT eliminated the masses' need for myths. The myths exist, to give people who don't have the time, capability, or inclination to think philosophically, a coherent structure in which to understand the world and their place in it.

So in the absence of religion, you need new myths to replace it. You have a vacuum that needs filling. And I don't think we, as described as "American society in general", have done a very good job of that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2023, 09:31:12 AM

And of course, many myths are unrelated to past religions.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 19, 2023, 11:27:16 AM

I've talked about myths, but I think there's something that we see in sports that is driven by a similar human need--everything has to be a narrative. 

I was struck watching one of the preseason games where a player--the second of the game--had to be put on a stretcher and carted off the field. And the commentator (who I think was a former player) was talking about when that sort of thing happened, the first play after such a terrible injury is weird. But by the second play... You're just playing football. 

I think we often talk about things in sports because we need a narrative to explain something. I.e. let's say OSU finishes the year with PSU, Northwestern, and Michigan. They're 10-0 after the PSU game, and just have to get through Northwestern to play The Game for to win the division, got to the CCG, and get into the playoff. 

And then they lose to Northwestern. And we can't explain it. They're not SUPPOSED to lose to Northwestern. So we claim "they got caught looking ahead". 

But... Did they really? I think much like the example of the on-field injury, once you get into those pads and you get onto the field, you're not thinking about next week's game. You're thinking about the play that's called, performing your job, and beating the guy across from you. There's no such thing as "looking ahead".

Why do I say this? Because OSU probably has a win probability of 0.95 over Northwestern, but we never need a narrative for the 19 times out of 20 that OSU wins. But when OSU loses, we can't just accept that there's a probability function and Northwestern is going to win some. Because they're not supposed to. OSU is supposed to win. So we need to create a narrative as to "why". 

Humans tell stories. We tell stories as ways to shield ourselves from the randomness of life. It's a coping mechanism. Some of those are mere narratives to explain an unexpected outcome. Others grow to become the myths that allow us to create a society. But it's all just telling stories that help us make sense of a random world. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 11:38:26 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 19, 2023, 07:50:27 AM

yes, Coincidence

So the most-educated of us are the least religious.  And you think it's a coincidence?  
I bet religious rates dropping off a cliff with the advent and spread of the internet is a coincidence, too?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2023, 11:40:03 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 19, 2023, 11:27:16 AM

But it's all just telling stories that help us make sense of a random world.

This is the core of it.  Back in the day, folks wanted things like storms and lightning and the stars and planets explained to them.  Someone got creative.  And the myths didn't help us make sense in reality, but they fooled us into thinking they did.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 11:40:50 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 19, 2023, 09:14:13 AM

I think it reflects more societal pressures than religiosity, though the two are conflated of course. 

I think today some younger women are both religious in some sense and sexually active outside marriage.  I knew a few like that back in the day.

This is very common and the results are highly predicatable, as is the case every time you have a group of people suppressing natural feelings.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2023, 11:42:09 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 11:38:26 AM

So the most-educated of us are the least religious.  And you think it's a coincidence? 
I bet religious rates dropping off a cliff with the advent and spread of the internet is a coincidence, too?

(https://i.imgur.com/BQT6tSk.png)

I think something dropped off a cliff would have a much sharper change in direction.  This to me looks like a downward slow drift, really starting around 2012.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2023, 11:43:55 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/naPG1xz.png)

Here we can see a correlation of course, but it's perhaps not as strong as some might have thought, going from 55% for HS degreed folks to 47% for college grads.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 11:52:59 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 19, 2023, 09:28:54 AM

If you think the masses don't require myths, you have a higher opinion of humanity than I do. But the way I have heard you deride the masses, I actually don't think you have a very high opinion of them, so I'll dig in.  correct

People, especially "the masses", often don't have the time or inclination to think for themselves. They have agency to decide plenty of things in their life. Whether/where to go to college. What job they want to do. Who they want to marry. But when it comes to the BIG questions, very few people in this world are truly philosophical and can handle the idea that "it's all made up bullshit and I have to face a world that is almost entirely myth-based."  a huge reason for this is that time to wonder about random shit is a luxury most don't have, they have to work or hustle or whatever just to have a place to live

So they NEED myths. They CRAVE it. The myths underpinning society are the only reason we have society.  they only need them for the things they don't understand - god of the gaps.......we have very few gaps left

Now, you may say that religion are old-school myths, out of date, and not based on objective reality (i.e. existence of the invisible man in the sky). Upon that, I agree. However, they were for a very long time, VERY effective at giving people a stable and clear idea of how to act in the world (morals/ethics), an authority structure to follow (clergy), and an unfalsifiable reward/punishment system built in to enforce compliance (heaven/hell).

But if you eliminate religion, you have NOT eliminated the masses' need for myths. The myths exist, to give people who don't have the time, capability, or inclination to think philosophically, a coherent structure in which to understand the world and their place in it.  we could work on providing them with the luxury of time in order to wonder and think and evolve past this

So in the absence of religion, you need new myths to replace it. You have a vacuum that needs filling. And I don't think we, as described as "American society in general", have done a very good job of that.

The vacuum is filled with knowledge.  Honestly, the 2 biggest reasons religions persist isn't your well-put, well-thought-out post about myths, but 1) tradition and 2) god of the gaps (essplainin' things the don't understand)

We understand most of the big questions besides the origin of the cosmos, they just don't know that or care about it or are freed up to know it.  And tradition is simply a bad idea on how to keep everything the same.

I look forward to freeing up a lot of that untaxed church land for public/private use, I must admit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 11:54:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 19, 2023, 11:42:09 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/BQT6tSk.png)

I think something dropped off a cliff would have a much sharper change in direction.  This to me looks like a downward slow drift, really starting around 2012.

Show a 100 year graph.
The cliff is more noticeable.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 11:55:09 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 19, 2023, 11:43:55 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/naPG1xz.png)

Here we can see a correlation of course, but it's perhaps not as strong as some might have thought, going from 55% for HS degreed folks to 47% for college grads.

Again, put this up against the same info from 30 years ago.
You're like the king of half-data.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 19, 2023, 12:35:26 PM

I don't think people readily admit or understand that anti-atheist sentiment may have correlated to there being a lot more "closeted" atheists back in the day. 

People who didn't admit--often not even to themselves--that they really didn't believe in god, but they felt like something was wrong with them because they saw everyone around them seeming to believe in it. You watch people who really seem to know there is a God, down to the core of their being, and you wonder "what are they seeing that I'm not?"

And then because that number who openly said they didn't believe was small, and also because so many of them were raging assholes about it, you look at them and say "well that's not my identity either." 

But times change. The number of people admitting it grew. The number of them who are seemingly normal people in every other facet of life, but just don't have religion, grew. You start seeing that less of them are some sort of weird "other", and that maybe your identity doesn't need to involve God when you were never really invested in the belief in the first place. 

People who didn't really feel any connection to religion, and were just going through the motions, just stopped feeling so "alone" in that belief and could admit--first to themselves and later to survey takers--that reality. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 19, 2023, 12:41:13 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 19, 2023, 08:35:41 AM

Honestly, we do have people with tech education working for us. They are CAD operators and survey technicians. Most of the latter work outside, collecting data or pounding stakes in the ground for construction. They are highly compensated.

We have a cleaning service every Saturday. If your personal trash is full before that, you take it to the dumpster outside.

Trucks are inspected randomly for cleanliness.

We're kinda old school.

To add on to this.. when we first started the company it was me, my partner, a CAD tech and a survey tech.

My partner and I took turns doing janitor tasks every Friday after work.

Needless to say, I think people like us really have a ton of respect for janitors/cleaning people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 12:48:23 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 19, 2023, 12:35:26 PM

I don't think people readily admit or understand that anti-atheist sentiment may have correlated to there being a lot more "closeted" atheists back in the day.

People who didn't admit--often not even to themselves--that they really didn't believe in god, but they felt like something was wrong with them because they saw everyone around them seeming to believe in it. You watch people who really seem to know there is a God, down to the core of their being, and you wonder "what are they seeing that I'm not?"

And then because that number who openly said they didn't believe was small, and also because so many of them were raging assholes about it, you look at them and say "well that's not my identity either."

But times change. The number of people admitting it grew. The number of them who are seemingly normal people in every other facet of life, but just don't have religion, grew. You start seeing that less of them are some sort of weird "other", and that maybe your identity doesn't need to involve God when you were never really invested in the belief in the first place.

People who didn't really feel any connection to religion, and were just going through the motions, just stopped feeling so "alone" in that belief and could admit--first to themselves and later to survey takers--that reality.

Good point.

People reeeeeally hate atheists.  Atheists' approval ratings rank alongside rapists.  Perfectly fine.  Nothing to see here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 19, 2023, 12:51:27 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 11:52:59 AM

The vacuum is filled with knowledge.  Honestly, the 2 biggest reasons religions persist isn't your well-put, well-thought-out post about myths, but 1) tradition and 2) god of the gaps (essplainin' things the don't understand)

We understand most of the big questions besides the origin of the cosmos, they just don't know that or care about it or are freed up to know it.  And tradition is simply a bad idea on how to keep everything the same.

I'm not talking about the "where did the universe come from" kind of questions. It's not so much a "god of the gaps" discussion. 

It's the inherent fact that humans are just animals. We're social animals, but we're just animals. We're driven by base urges. Jealousy. Hate. Wanting to screw. And those base urges need to be restrained and channeled in order to have a functional society. 

We needed myths in antiquity to explain why the tribal chief deserved to be chief, or later why the king deserved to be king and we should follow him. We need myths today to explain why we should give our income to the taxman. We create myths out of whole cloth involving things like "human rights" or "civil rights" in order to try to make a working society where people feel safe. 

But we're just animals. You may claim you have a right to life, but that claim doesn't mean a thing when someone murders you. It's a myth. At best, because we've built a society around that myth, someone down the road can punish the murderer. But that doesn't protect your "right"; you're dead. 

Think about the Ten Commandments:

• I am the authority and you should have no others: I'm establishing credibility for why you should listen to MY rules and not some other competing set.
• Thou shalt not take my name in vain: speak only highly of me so that others will revere my rules.
• Keep the sabbath holy: show fealty to me such that all around you know that you follow my rules.
• Honor thy father and mother: Everything you're thinking of doing, idiot, your parents have either already tried and have the physical/emotional scars to prove they failed, or were smart enough not to try. Talk to them and maybe they'll help you follow my rules.
• Don't murder people: Well, yeah. Hard to have a society if you have people going around offing each other.
• Don't screw other people's spouses: Yeah, leads to breakup of families, leads to jealousy, and a whole bunch of bad things.
• Don't steal: Well, yeah. Hard to have a society if you are always worried your neighbor is gonna come walk off with your goat.
• Don't lie about others: Well, yeah. Hard to have a society if you don't trust each other to speak truth.
• Don't covet your neighbor's wife: If you're thinking about it, you might break rule #6. So don't think about it or it's almost like you're doing it. 
• Don't covet your neighbor's stuff: If you're thinking about it, you might break rule #7. So don't think about it or it's almost like you're doing it. 

Pretty much "here's why the rules matter (God made 'em), and here are the rules that basically give you a society that doesn't have a bunch of murder, theivery, or men running off with other men's wives--which will probably lead to some murders."

Should we all be able to live in a polite and safe society without that? YES. But it sure was a pretty basic framework to start with, right? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 01:03:06 PM

Idk, to me, myth means lie.  We don't have to lie in order to feel safe.  
We are animals.  Anyone who thinks otherwise, let me drop you in the middle of a jungle naked and see how evolved you feel after a week.
We (humans) made up a lie about the sun moving across the sky...until we learned that it doesn't.  We're on a spinning sphere.  There was resistance when we learned this.  But eventually, it was accepted because it's true.

We originally made up a lie about gods to feel safe.  But we no longer need to.  We can have the expectation that people treat each other with decency because it's ethical and what's best for us all.  I don't have a special right to life, but I have as much a right to life as anyone else.  When that is reciprocated, we can progress as a society.  No gods needed.

And I reeeeally don't understand the 10 commandments being cited here.  4 of them are concerning a jealous god.  The rest are covered by the golden rule.
The 10 commandments are a shitty list.  Add in the other 603 commandments, none of which tell you not to own other people as property, and it's still a shitty list.
Just treat others as you'd want to be treated.  Or treat people as nicely as you would your grandma.  It's not difficult to understand.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2023, 01:05:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 11:54:14 AM

Show a 100 year graph.
The cliff is more noticeable. 

You said since the Internet 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2023, 01:07:19 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 11:38:26 AM

So the most-educated of us are the least religious.  And you think it's a coincidence? 
I bet religious rates dropping off a cliff with the advent and spread of the internet is a coincidence, too?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 01:09:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 19, 2023, 01:05:26 PM

You said since the Internet

I did.
I guess the cliff includes the people who'd have labeled religion as "somewhat important."  
But your graph only has "very important."
Another incomplete effort.
I'm assuming it's accidental.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 01:11:24 PM

My point is that the % of people who are/were believers was very consistent and very high (like 98% or so) for decades and decades....and since the mid-90s, it's lowered to as little as 80%.

If a % is consistently around 98% for 80 or 200 or 1,000 years and drops nearly 20 points in 20 years, yes, that's a major drop-off. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 19, 2023, 01:32:42 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 01:03:06 PM

Idk, to me, myth means lie.  We don't have to lie in order to feel safe. 

Yeah, I know the word "myth" triggers people. But it's not intended to. Perhaps the better idea would be the word "model". As CD always says, "all models are wrong; some of them are useful."

Religion is a model that is very imperfect, but what we're saying is that in some ways it served humanity well for a long time. I don't believe that we would be the society we are today without centuries of religion leading up to it, even if we perhaps don't need the "God" part now. 

Quote

We originally made up a lie about gods to feel safe.  But we no longer need to.  We can have the expectation that people treat each other with decency because it's ethical and what's best for us all.  I don't have a special right to life, but I have as much a right to life as anyone else.  When that is reciprocated, we can progress as a society.  No gods needed.

You act as if "ethics" exist a priori. I'm saying that's false. I would call ethics a myth, but as you consider that synonymous with a lie, it would be better to describe ethics as a model. 

We come up with a model that we try to use to facilitate a good society. That model is, like all models created by man, imperfect. We call that model "ethics". But it's really hard to get people to follow the model without a threat. That threat used to be "eternal damnation". And we replace it with "laws" based on those ethics and "jails" that you can throw people into if they violate it. Another model called the "social/contract".

But why should anyone respect the laws? Well, we construct another model, which we call government. And we say that government makes the laws and can enforce them. And like the model of "ethics", government is another model that is imperfect. Sometimes we elect shitty people. Sometimes they do really bad things. And when they do, all we have to rely on to compel obedience is "well, they're the government." End of story. 

----------

It's all fiction on the veneers of human nature, that only works because we agree it does. Like money. Money is a model. Money works because we all agree it does. But occasionally we don't. Like Weimar Germany, or Zimbabwe, or Brazil. Myths are not inviolate. 

I can respect religion as a model for one reason: it's based on theoretical perfection, and because it's supernatural, it's unfalsifiable. That's pretty damn powerful. Whereas most of our other models are based on empirical imperfection. We can point to government screwing up. We can point to misplaced ethics, like the idea that people were owned as property in the US only ~160 years, and that was not only legal, it was written into the founding document of our government.

But in the end, they're all just stories we tell each other to try to agree on how we should all get along with each other. 

I agree with you that The Golden Rule is a hell of a model for society. But it's just a model. It's not "true" or "false". It's something we tell each other to agree on how we can all get along. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 01:55:00 PM

I don't disagree with any of that.

I just don't deem religion a useful myth or model today.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 19, 2023, 01:58:38 PM

What does mean to be religious?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 02:06:13 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 19, 2023, 01:58:38 PM

What does mean to be religious?

I'd argue that it doesn't affect your actions, people do what they're gong to do.  Religious people simply do the good and bad acts and have an invented guilt tacked on to their bad acts, lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 02:13:28 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 19, 2023, 01:58:38 PM

What does mean to be religious?

Well it's not any one thing, it's different things to different people.  Hell, you could pick and choose from a checklist:
church-goer
belief in the supernatural
if you think prayer actually does anything
belief in a heaven/hell
belief in cosmic justice
if OAM's posts on religion offend you
spirituality (whatever that means)
if the Bible is a thing
if the Quran is a perfect book
if Jesus actually existed
if Poseidon determines the safety of your boat trip
etc
etc
etc

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 19, 2023, 02:18:30 PM

I guess I'm a Golden Rule guy, and I do believe there is something "out there", a higher power.

Not a churchgoer. Used to be but got jaded on it. Long story.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 02:22:07 PM

Let me guess....
(https://i.gifer.com/FU8l.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2023, 02:32:42 PM

THE WAY WE WEREN'T: RELIGION IN COLONIAL AMERICA - The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1995/11/26/the-way-we-werent-religion-in-colonial-america/6cb64903-30f4-435e-a415-6be0f0465bfe/)

In 1776, only about 17 percent of the country were church members, compared to about 65 percent today, said Stark, who has tallied church membership as a percentage of the population over the past 250 years using church records and census figures.

Even in the populated cities and towns, colonial Americans were not particularly religious. "It's safe to say that most people walking around had some nebulous notion of God even though they had never been in a church and were just vaguely Christian -- nobody had ever instructed them."
Why didn't early Americans go to church? Part of the reason is that most of America even in the 18th century was still untamed frontier filled with untamed frontiersmen who preferred drinking and wenching to tithing and praying.

Women, churches and schools came later. Even by the first U.S. Census in 1790, men still significantly outnumbered women in the United States and its colonies, Stark reported in his book, "The Churching of America," which he wrote with Purdue sociologist Roger Finke.
Besides, congregations need clergy to lead them, and men of the cloth were in short supply in colonial America. What few there were left much to be desired: Many had fled from Europe or Scandinavia to escape debts, scandal or unhappy marriages. "Why else would you want to leave Norway or Germany?" Stark said. And once here, these scoundrels continued their dissolute ways. "The clergy was pretty notorious."


Church Membership In America Percentage of population that belongs to a church:
1776 17%
1850 34
1860 37
1870 35
1890 45
1906 51
1916 53
1926 56
1952 59
1980 62
1995 65

* *Estimated. Source: "The Churching of America: 1776-1990" by Roger Finke and Rodney Stark and Gallup Organization data. Don't Call Me Raoul

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 19, 2023, 02:36:20 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 19, 2023, 01:58:38 PM

What does mean to be religious?

Different things to different folks, I suppose. 

To me, it involves following rituals somewhat strictly. It gets somewhat stickier when it comes to the good faith efforts to follow the rules. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2023, 02:37:46 PM

Pew study shows acceptance of atheists is low but gradually increasing - Freedom From Religion Foundation (ffrf.org) (https://ffrf.org/news/news-releases/item/42136-pew-study-shows-acceptance-of-atheists-is-low-but-gradually-increasing)

Americans continue to rate atheists more negatively than positively but atheists have edged up slightly above Muslims and Mormons in terms of favorability ratings. Only 20 percent of Americans have favorable opinions of atheists, and more — at 24 percent — hold unfavorable opinions. Muslims command slightly less favor at 17 percent, with 22 percent unfavorable, and Mormons 15 percent positive and 25 percent negative. What may be surprising, given concerns about growing anti-Semitism, is that Americans express the most favorable feelings toward Jews, who receive the highest plurality — 35 percent — of favorable ratings and lowest unfavorable ratings at 6 percent.

Most Americans are neutral overall about religions, however.

Not surprisingly, Pew found that people tend to rate their own religious group positively. So Pew adjusted findings to examine how people rate religious groups other than their own. The most significant revelation is that among Americans who are not born-again or evangelical Protestants, the balance of opinion toward evangelical Christians is negative (32 percent unfavorable vs. 18 percent favorable). Evangelical Christians are among the most negatively rated religious groups by people outside that group. Likewise, “the balance of opinion is negative in the case of Mormons,” Pew cites, with a quarter holding very or somewhat unfavorable views.

Also not surprising in our religion-deferential nation is that public attitudes toward Jews, Catholics and mainline Protestants are relatively warm, including by people with other identities. About four-in-10 Americans (41 percent) do not express an unfavorable view toward any group studied in the survey. Roughly one-quarter express a negative view of just one group, with atheists and evangelical Christians most likely to be singled out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 19, 2023, 02:43:11 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 02:22:07 PM

Let me guess....
(https://i.gifer.com/FU8l.gif)

That's part of it, honestly, but not all of it and not the most disturbing part.

You'd need to increase the zeroes on those things, by the way, and I'd have paid if not for the other parts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 19, 2023, 02:44:54 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 19, 2023, 11:27:16 AM

And then they lose to Northwestern. And we can't explain it. They're not SUPPOSED to lose to Northwestern. So we claim "they got caught looking ahead".

But... Did they really? I think much like the example of the on-field injury, once you get into those pads and you get onto the field, you're not thinking about next week's game. You're thinking about the play that's called, performing your job, and beating the guy across from you. There's no such thing as "looking ahead".

Why do I say this? Because OSU probably has a win probability of 0.95 over Northwestern, but we never need a narrative for the 19 times out of 20 that OSU wins. But when OSU loses, we can't just accept that there's a probability function and Northwestern is going to win some. Because they're not supposed to. OSU is supposed to win. So we need to create a narrative as to "why".

So this kind of fascinates me because it’s sometimes true and sometimes not.

In a lot of cases, we make up myths about our teams as a bit of a pacifier to justify outcomes. But there are also moments that are far more interesting where a team really just does think it’s hot shit and totally drop the bag.

I’m always interested in moments of the latter, when people actually have those human things happen. (There’s a ton of myth making about coach decision making, when 90 percent of the time it’s about a player not being good or messing up. And learning actual good stuff about how they do things is always interesting)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 19, 2023, 02:47:15 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 19, 2023, 02:36:20 PM

Different things to different folks, I suppose.

To me, it involves following rituals somewhat strictly. It gets somewhat stickier when it comes to the good faith efforts to follow the rules.

I don't believe anyone really does that, to a tee. We're all human.

Going to "confession" or whatever doesn't undo a very bad deed. Or even a little one, for that matter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 02:55:17 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 19, 2023, 02:37:46 PM

Pew study shows acceptance of atheists is low but gradually increasing - Freedom From Religion Foundation (ffrf.org) (https://ffrf.org/news/news-releases/item/42136-pew-study-shows-acceptance-of-atheists-is-low-but-gradually-increasing)

Americans continue to rate atheists more negatively than positively but atheists have edged up slightly above Muslims and Mormons in terms of favorability ratings. Only 20 percent of Americans have favorable opinions of atheists, and more — at 24 percent — hold unfavorable opinions. Muslims command slightly less favor at 17 percent, with 22 percent unfavorable, and Mormons 15 percent positive and 25 percent negative. What may be surprising, given concerns about growing anti-Semitism, is that Americans express the most favorable feelings toward Jews, who receive the highest plurality — 35 percent — of favorable ratings and lowest unfavorable ratings at 6 percent.

Most Americans are neutral overall about religions, however.

Not surprisingly, Pew found that people tend to rate their own religious group positively. So Pew adjusted findings to examine how people rate religious groups other than their own. The most significant revelation is that among Americans who are not born-again or evangelical Protestants, the balance of opinion toward evangelical Christians is negative (32 percent unfavorable vs. 18 percent favorable). Evangelical Christians are among the most negatively rated religious groups by people outside that group. Likewise, “the balance of opinion is negative in the case of Mormons,” Pew cites, with a quarter holding very or somewhat unfavorable views.

Also not surprising in our religion-deferential nation is that public attitudes toward Jews, Catholics and mainline Protestants are relatively warm, including by people with other identities. About four-in-10 Americans (41 percent) do not express an unfavorable view toward any group studied in the survey. Roughly one-quarter express a negative view of just one group, with atheists and evangelical Christians most likely to be singled out.

Thank God!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 02:56:14 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 19, 2023, 02:47:15 PM

I don't believe anyone really does that, to a tee. We're all human.

Going to "confession" or whatever doesn't undo a very bad deed. Or even a little one, for that matter.

How are you going to throw out Catholicism like that?!?
Next you'll be saying a wafer cracker thing isn't the literal flesh of Jesus!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 19, 2023, 03:08:22 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 01:55:00 PM

I don't disagree with any of that.

I just don't deem religion a useful myth or model today. 

Understood. But you have to think about a replacement. And how to SELL that replacement to the masses. We've already agreed they're not sophisticated, so you need easy answers that they can all readily fall in line behind. 

"Hey y'all, just follow the Golden Rule." isn't a good replacement. It's not a myth that has any shock and awe to it. It's not built around an institution. It's not easily something that can be turned into identity. It's a great idea, but it's not enough. 

I assume perhaps your answer is "secular humanism", which is a fine answer. And to an extent its moral code is pretty much the Golden Rule. I'd probably consider myself a secular humanist. Nobody's managed to sell it, tho. Even the name sucks. 

"The masses" NEED myths. I understand and share your issues with the religious ones. But I don't really have an answer for how to sell one better than the religious folks are doing right now. And I don't have an answer for how to sell a myth based on love, tolerance, compassion, and acceptance, over division, hate, fear, etc. The ones selling those seem to be in a golden age. 

So I'll ask... How would you market secular humanism (assuming that's near your worldview) better? How would you structure that myth to outcompete others?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2023, 03:09:11 PM

My wife is pretty close to someone who is religious in the sense of following most of the various dictates of Roman Catholicism.  I'd definitely say she follows them "somewhat strictly".  It works for her, doesn't seem to do any harm.  She's about to go to Mass here shortly.  I tend to forget she goes on Saturdays.

The US is more religious than most European countries (aside from Poland etc.).  I don't think we'd elect a President who didn't at least pretend to be Christian.  Some of them have not been very good about pretending, but they do it well enough to fool enough folks I guess.

I think of the primal origins of religion, it was a way to explain the unexplainable.  And then was a source of authority and power.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2023, 03:12:27 PM

For me, the Golden Rule is flawed, seriously.  I have learned I absolutely cannot treat people how I want to be treated (except around here maybe).  Most people like their comfort zone.  Take my step son in law, he commented that CO2 levels today are highest in the history of the planet.  I asked where he heared that and he said "Al Gore's movie".  I couldn't resist a guffaw.  He likely thinks I'm a denier now, instead of just knowing we've had higher CO2 levels long before of course.  MUCH higher.

I should have kept my mouth shut.  If I say something so egregiously wrong, I like to be corrected.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 19, 2023, 03:16:32 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 19, 2023, 02:44:54 PM

So this kind of fascinates me because it’s sometimes true and sometimes not.

In a lot of cases, we make up myths about our teams as a bit of a pacifier to justify outcomes. But there are also moments that are far more interesting where a team really just does think it’s hot shit and totally drop the bag.

I’m always interested in moments of the latter, when people actually have those human things happen. (There’s a ton of myth making about coach decision making, when 90 percent of the time it’s about a player not being good or messing up. And learning actual good stuff about how they do things is always interesting)

I think those instances are rare. Now, maybe the stories about Michigan players getting high or whatever before the App State game are true. Or the fictional example from "Varsity Blues" where they go out boozing the night before a game and then can't play b/c they're hung over. And I'd say if true, that would almost be the seminal example of what you're talking about. Because certain physical aspects would carry over. 

And maybe there are instances where a coach thinks they can be on autopilot, so they prep for the next game instead of the one in front of them, and then the opposing coach starts throwing out things that are unexpected and he can't adjust. But does that really happen? I'm assuming Ryan Day isn't going to do that... He's going to argue to his team that you'd better focus on Northwestern b/c if you think about Michigan, NU is more than capable of beating you. 

But I'd argue that absent something like that, once the pads go on, the bright lights shine, the fans cheer and the band plays... Those players are locked and loaded. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 19, 2023, 03:20:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 19, 2023, 01:58:38 PM

What does mean to be religious?

I don't really know...

But I think it's more this (https://www.scarymommy.com/jen-hatmaker-church-mom-hugs-pride):


(https://i.imgur.com/ZsRkg2b.jpg)

Than this:

(https://i.imgur.com/QsCTmdZ.jpg)

But maybe that's just me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2023, 03:42:14 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/s4iODhm.png)

This, to me, is interesting, assuming it is correct.  I already showed that this was pretty low before 1800, remarkably so, so perhaps religiosity here has gone up and down and up and down a few times for some reason.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2023, 03:44:29 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/ymsfzJB.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2023, 03:56:21 PM

Presuming religiosity here peaked around 1960, the decline is only about to the point we were in 1940, a bit lower apparently.  And maybe there were peaks and valleys before 1940.  I don't know why.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 07:36:41 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 19, 2023, 03:08:22 PM

Understood. But you have to think about a replacement. And how to SELL that replacement to the masses. We've already agreed they're not sophisticated, so you need easy answers that they can all readily fall in line behind.

"Hey y'all, just follow the Golden Rule." isn't a good replacement. It's not a myth that has any shock and awe to it. It's not built around an institution. It's not easily something that can be turned into identity. It's a great idea, but it's not enough.

I assume perhaps your answer is "secular humanism", which is a fine answer. And to an extent its moral code is pretty much the Golden Rule. I'd probably consider myself a secular humanist. Nobody's managed to sell it, tho. Even the name sucks.

"The masses" NEED myths. I understand and share your issues with the religious ones. But I don't really have an answer for how to sell one better than the religious folks are doing right now. And I don't have an answer for how to sell a myth based on love, tolerance, compassion, and acceptance, over division, hate, fear, etc. The ones selling those seem to be in a golden age.

So I'll ask... How would you market secular humanism (assuming that's near your worldview) better? How would you structure that myth to outcompete others?

If I rephrase it as people need this lie and if you remove the lie they need.....what?  A replacement for the lie?  How about the truth?!?
Believers need a fucking pep-talk.  You will not suddenly start robbing convenience stores when you no longer believe in a god.  You will not love your family any less.  You will not try a new drug or turn gay or any of it.  You'll still be plain ole boring you.  
Believe in yourself to be ethical for the sake of being ethical.  
Do the right thing because it's the right thing.  Stop requiring a fictional carrot and a fictional stick.  
Grow up.

.
You may say that it won't work.  They need something.....what?  Sexier than "secular humanism" in order to what.....go on living their lives?  What other option do they have?  If all gods were proven false tomorrow, there wouldn't be mass suicides.  There would just be confused people.  But they'd wake up, go to work, and live their lives.  Because that's all there is.
And by the way....if this religion myth is so vital, why doesn't it improve anyone's behaviors?  Why are all the people in prison believers?  Why do many find religion while in prison?  It doesn't help.  If the big fat lie doesn't even affect outcomes, why advocate for it's continuance?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 07:38:14 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 19, 2023, 03:42:14 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/s4iODhm.png)

This, to me, is interesting, assuming it is correct.  I already showed that this was pretty low before 1800, remarkably so, so perhaps religiosity here has gone up and down and up and down a few times for some reason.

You didn't show it was pretty low before 1800.
A lot fewer people are going to church when there's only a church if you physically help build it yourself.
That graph was silly.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 07:39:49 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 19, 2023, 03:12:27 PM

For me, the Golden Rule is flawed, seriously.  I have learned I absolutely cannot treat people how I want to be treated (except around here maybe).  Most people like their comfort zone.  Take my step son in law, he commented that CO2 levels today are highest in the history of the planet.  I asked where he heared that and he said "Al Gore's movie".  I couldn't resist a guffaw.  He likely thinks I'm a denier now, instead of just knowing we've had higher CO2 levels long before of course.  MUCH higher.

I should have kept my mouth shut.  If I say something so egregiously wrong, I like to be corrected.

You're absolutely lost in a fog.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 19, 2023, 08:30:15 PM

graph what you will 

religion isn't the issue with society

it's more of a positive impact on society than a negative

for the un-washed masses

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Volbrigade/oU on August 19, 2023, 10:02:55 PM

Howdy, fellers…

I hope y’all don’t mind my dropping in on the proceedings.  I was directed here to this thread as being an example of “religious ignorance on display”. 

That intrigued me.  I’ve read a page or two of the comments.  Most of your names are familiar, from ’51.  It gets a little turgid over there.  If I may, I’d like to add a few thoughts to the mix, here.  As a change of scene, if nothing else.

Brief intro:  I am a professed, believing, doctrinal Christian.  College educated. 

I wasn’t a Christian in college.  Rather, a standard issue atheo-secular.  Like most of my generation, I was hauled off to denominational church/Sunday School as a child.  A terrific place to become inoculated against saving faith.  Especially if you’re bright, inquisitive (I was a National Merit Semi-Finalist, so I suppose that is some kind of credential in regard to the former claim, applied to myself).  So many of us found our questions were discouraged and unanswered, other than with a vague and general “don’t question, just believe.”

That, of course, won’t do.

So, I spent my adolescence and young adulthood happily playing for the “other team”.  God was a fairy tale, Jesus Christ (in the words of a Flannery O’Connor character) a “trick on (n-words)”.  Chesterton (I think) said that “in the absence of God, all things are permitted (Hitler and Stalin concurred)”.  And if there is a behavior that religious folk call “sinful” that I didn’t engage in, I can’t think of what it would be.  Other than what Bud Light drinkers do — an activity that had no appeal to me.  But didn’t bother me a particle, in others.  “To each his own”.  What people did to themselves, or with others, was of no consequence.  Either to me, them, or in general.  How could it, in an accidental universe in which complex bags of chemicals evolved from randomly-assembled microbes, by mindless forces?  Yes, there was the generally observed gentleman’s agreement to try not to hurt each other — at least when convenient.  A mere suggestion, though.  And the world’s most commonly violated agreement.

What I discovered, as I got older, and the pursuit of pleasure began to become less pleasurable in itself, is that the standard atheo-secularist view — what I came to call “Whateverism” (the belief in something, nothing, anything, everything — “Whatever” — as long as it’s not the Biblical God) —

was as useless in providing answers to the big questions of life — why am I here?  Were did I come from?  What is my destiny/purpose?  Is there a meaning/purpose to all of this, and if so, what? —

as my “religious” indoctrination.

This, I’ll be frank to say, produced in me  level of unhappiness.  Which I attempted to assuage by unbridled intellectual and carnal pursuits.

Things came to a head when I stumbled upon — as a Christian, I now prefer “God led me to” — the works of C. S. Lewis.  “Mere Christianity”, and “The Screwtape Letters”.  I no longer remember which was first.  But they were in rapid succession.

My reaction was as follows:

“Why has no one told me any of this before?”  And:

“This is undeniably true.  I give it my full intellectual assent.  But I have to keep it at arm’s length.”  I was still in my early 20s.  And had a LOT of sinning to do.

There followed a protracted period, during which I was what an old hell-raising reprobate buddy of mine later described as a “closet Christian”.  He made that announcement at a party he invited me to, after I had gone public with my faith (writing letters to the editor in rebuttal of mischaracterizations of Christian belief) thinking to put me on the spot in front of a room full of Whateverists.  “Brig here is a Christian!  You always were a closet Christian, though, weren’t you?”

I countered with “I’m out of the closet now, Bill.”

All that to say, that in regard to this:

Quote

So the most-educated of us are the least religious.  And you think it's a coincidence? 

I bet religious rates dropping off a cliff with the advent and spread of the internet is a coincidence, too?

I completely concur with those who would assign that to be a positive thing.

All religions are false.  With one exception.  And that exception isn’t even a religion.

It has been well-said that Jesus Christ is the least religious person who ever lived.  He was adored, and worshipped, by virtually all.  Especially sinners.  And even a Roman centurion.  “All”, that is — except for the religious authorities of His day.  Who persuaded the political authorities to have Him executed.

Jesus did not come to establish a religion.

He came to establish a CHURCH.  A church is a body of believers.  The belief of the Christian church — which transcends all boundaries of denomination, nationality, class, race, or gender — is that Jesus is the embodiment, the manifestation, the incarnation, in human form, of  the Primal Force which created the universe.

God became man.  And willingly suffered death.  Why?

I’ll be glad to go into that, if anyone’s interested. 

Religion is about man justifying himself with “God” (or “god”), however (erroneously) conceived.  Secular humanism, for instance (a wide variety of the encompassing Whateverism), is a (very informal) religion.  Which puts man at the center of things, and denies the existence of God.  It has its creeds:  the universe has mindless, unguided cause(s), dirt became alive and organized itself into microbes, which turned into men over time… all sexual behavior is not just permissible, but sacrosanct… and the value of human life is relative, and assigned by the state.  The last, so that the product of hetero sexual unions can be terminated as “non-human”. 

Etc.

Okay.  That’s enough for now.

Thanks for “listening” — if anyone did.

I’ll be happy to entertain any questions that are brought forth in a sincere, civil manner. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 10:07:57 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 19, 2023, 08:30:15 PM

graph what you will

religion isn't the issue with society

it's more of a positive impact on society than a negative

for the un-washed masses

Have fun proving that one, lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 10:16:12 PM

Quote from: Volbrigade/oU on August 19, 2023, 10:02:55 PM

Howdy, fellers…

I hope y’all don’t mind my dropping in on the proceedings.  I was directed here to this thread as being an example of “religious ignorance on display”. 

That intrigued me.  I’ve read a page or two of the comments.  Most of your names are familiar, from ’51.  It gets a little turgid over there.  If I may, I’d like to add a few thoughts to the mix, here.  As a change of scene, if nothing else.

Brief intro:  I am a professed, believing, doctrinal Christian.  College educated. 

I wasn’t a Christian in college.  Rather, a standard issue atheo-secular.  Like most of my generation, I was hauled off to denominational church/Sunday School as a child.  A terrific place to become inoculated against saving faith.  Especially if you’re bright, inquisitive (I was a National Merit Semi-Finalist, so I suppose that is some kind of credential in regard to the former claim, applied to myself).  So many of us found our questions were discouraged and unanswered, other than with a vague and general “don’t question, just believe.”

That, of course, won’t do.

So, I spent my adolescence and young adulthood happily playing for the “other team”.  God was a fairy tale, Jesus Christ (in the words of a Flannery O’Connor character) a “trick on (n-words)”.  Chesterton (I think) said that “in the absence of God, all things are permitted (Hitler and Stalin concurred)”.  And if there is a behavior that religious folk call “sinful” that I didn’t engage in, I can’t think of what it would be.  Other than what Bud Light drinkers do — an activity that had no appeal to me.  But didn’t bother me a particle, in others.  “To each his own”.  What people did to themselves, or with others, was of no consequence.  Either to me, them, or in general.  How could it, in an accidental universe in which complex bags of chemicals evolved from randomly-assembled microbes, by mindless forces?  Yes, there was the generally observed gentleman’s agreement to try not to hurt each other — at least when convenient.  A mere suggestion, though.  And the world’s most commonly violated agreement.

What I discovered, as I got older, and the pursuit of pleasure began to become less pleasurable in itself, is that the standard atheo-secularist view — what I came to call “Whateverism” (the belief in something, nothing, anything, everything — “Whatever” — as long as it’s not the Biblical God) —

was as useless in providing answers to the big questions of life — why am I here?  Were did I come from?  What is my destiny/purpose?  Is there a meaning/purpose to all of this, and if so, what? —

as my “religious” indoctrination.

This, I’ll be frank to say, produced in me  level of unhappiness.  Which I attempted to assuage by unbridled intellectual and carnal pursuits.

Things came to a head when I stumbled upon — as a Christian, I now prefer “God led me to” — the works of C. S. Lewis.  “Mere Christianity”, and “The Screwtape Letters”.  I no longer remember which was first.  But they were in rapid succession.

My reaction was as follows:

“Why has no one told me any of this before?”  And:

“This is undeniably true.  I give it my full intellectual assent.  But I have to keep it at arm’s length.”  I was still in my early 20s.  And had a LOT of sinning to do.

There followed a protracted period, during which I was what an old hell-raising reprobate buddy of mine later described as a “closet Christian”.  He made that announcement at a party he invited me to, after I had gone public with my faith (writing letters to the editor in rebuttal of mischaracterizations of Christian belief) thinking to put me on the spot in front of a room full of Whateverists.  “Brig here is a Christian!  You always were a closet Christian, though, weren’t you?”

I countered with “I’m out of the closet now, Bill.”

All that to say, that in regard to this:



I completely concur with those who would assign that to be a positive thing.

All religions are false.  With one exception.  And that exception isn’t even a religion.

It has been well-said that Jesus Christ is the least religious person who ever lived.  He was adored, and worshipped, by virtually all.  Especially sinners.  And even a Roman centurion.  “All”, that is — except for the religious authorities of His day.  Who persuaded the political authorities to have Him executed.

Jesus did not come to establish a religion.

He came to establish a CHURCH.  A church is a body of believers.  The belief of the Christian church — which transcends all boundaries of denomination, nationality, class, race, or gender — is that Jesus is the embodiment, the manifestation, the incarnation, in human form, of  the Primal Force which created the universe.

God became man.  And willingly suffered death.  Why?

I’ll be glad to go into that, if anyone’s interested. 

Religion is about man justifying himself with “God” (or “god”), however (erroneously) conceived.  Secular humanism, for instance (a wide variety of the encompassing Whateverism), is a (very informal) religion.  Which puts man at the center of things, and denies the existence of God.  It has its creeds:  the universe has mindless, unguided cause(s), dirt became alive and organized itself into microbes, which turned into men over time… all sexual behavior is not just permissible, but sacrosanct… and the value of human life is relative, and assigned by the state.  The last, so that the product of hetero sexual unions can be terminated as “non-human”. 

Etc.

Okay.  That’s enough for now.

Thanks for “listening” — if anyone did.

I’ll be happy to entertain any questions that are brought forth in a sincere, civil manner. 

Welcome to the convo.
I'm worried you're preoccupied by atheism supposedly being some excuse to go out and sin.  I think you'll find believers sin as much or more.  The "I don't want to believe in god so I can go sin a lot" is an invention by believers.  For an atheist, the notion is silly.  
As for Jesus, we don't even know if he actually existed.  He could easily have been a compilation of people from that time or from that time's history.  The bible authors offer zero firsthand accounts of him.  


I would ask, though, what specifically in those texts you mentioned steered you towards believing?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Volbrigade/oU on August 20, 2023, 12:21:56 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 10:16:12 PM

I would ask, though, what specifically in those texts you mentioned steered you towards believing?

 A penetrating intellect expressing unassailable logic and reason, with wit and humor and a warmth and generosity of spirit, utilizing an unsurpassed command of the English language that is a joy to consume.

TSL is a... well, diabolically accurate portrayal of man's perpetual spiritual and psychological condition.

MC is a collection of radio addresses delivered by Lewis during WWII, as the Nazi Blitz rained bombs on England.  He calmly and cheerfully, but forcefully, gave what I consider the most satisfying intellectual case for Christianity ever made.  One of the great minds of all time, skillfully crafting his argument to be understood by the common man.

There will be a long line in Heaven of former Whateverists who were enlightened by Lewis, waiting their turn to express their gratitude to this incomparable man.

I will be in it.
 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 20, 2023, 01:52:11 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 19, 2023, 03:16:32 PM

I think those instances are rare. Now, maybe the stories about Michigan players getting high or whatever before the App State game are true. Or the fictional example from "Varsity Blues" where they go out boozing the night before a game and then can't play b/c they're hung over. And I'd say if true, that would almost be the seminal example of what you're talking about. Because certain physical aspects would carry over.

And maybe there are instances where a coach thinks they can be on autopilot, so they prep for the next game instead of the one in front of them, and then the opposing coach starts throwing out things that are unexpected and he can't adjust. But does that really happen? I'm assuming Ryan Day isn't going to do that... He's going to argue to his team that you'd better focus on Northwestern b/c if you think about Michigan, NU is more than capable of beating you.

But I'd argue that absent something like that, once the pads go on, the bright lights shine, the fans cheer and the band plays... Those players are locked and loaded.

I mean, we’re talking about people in their early 20s who think they are invincible and assuming a lot of focus. Plus more than a few are head cases. (Some kids also react badly to a punch in the mouth)

I had a few friends who worked in the building with college teams. There’s a lot of nonsense and shenanigans.

Coaches are obviously more focused, but more than a few of them have their own foibles. Does it always come home to roost? No. I don’t think it would lead to a NW-OSU upset, But there are absolutely moments when kids get super high in their own hype and don’t do what they’re supposed to.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 07:22:09 AM

The Surprising Religious Diversity of America's 13 Colonies (history.com) (https://www.history.com/news/religion-13-colonies-america)

A bit rambling, to me, but it's a rambling subject.  Back in the day, "we" were all over the place, which is perhaps the main rason for the First Amendment.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 20, 2023, 08:29:30 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 02:56:14 PM

How are you going to throw out Catholicism like that?!?
Next you'll be saying a wafer cracker thing isn't the literal flesh of Jesus!

It isn't, but it is blessed and is symbolic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 08:40:00 AM

College Football Premier League: 28 teams survive in standalone football product - The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/4776402/2023/08/15/college-football-realignment-premier-league/?source=fbpcadsbc&ad_id=23857529512270092&fbclid=IwAR22cfHRbaTXS5tBwUgLVAnRtmrrT5NA0lpll_EjjbLicKJGH3KdutFI-Mg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 20, 2023, 08:44:39 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 10:16:12 PM

As for Jesus, we don't even know if he actually existed.  He could easily have been a compilation of people from that time or from that time's history.  The bible authors offer zero firsthand accounts of him. 

Have fun proving that Christ did not exist

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 08:46:29 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 20, 2023, 08:44:39 AM

Have fun proving that Christ did not exist

I wouldn't think that possible, is it?  Something about proving a negative (which can be done in some cases).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 20, 2023, 08:48:33 AM

a great many things can not be proven, one way or another

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 09:01:47 AM

Actually,  very little is subject to real "proof" in life.  Descartes simplified it down to one thing.  Folks generally accept the physical Laws of Nature as proven, but there is some debate over parts of them.  Newton's Law of Gravitation could be incomplete, maybe there is an additional term we don't yet know that applies at long range.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 20, 2023, 09:49:19 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 19, 2023, 07:36:41 PM

If I rephrase it as people need this lie and if you remove the lie they need.....what?  A replacement for the lie?  How about the truth?!?

Yes. The truth.

Act like I've spent my entire live believing in God, and that's just been shattered. I've now accepted that when I die, it's all over. By the time my grandkids pass away, I'll be completely unremembered and nothing I do in my life, good or bad, is of any importance whatsoever, in the grand scheme of things. 

What "truth" do you have that replaces existential despair? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 20, 2023, 10:22:19 AM

could you guys pick another topic

its a pointless discussion

maybe try do we really need billion dollar machines to remove co2

or why did ants pick this day to march into my house and go dumpster diving

Mr Raid took care of that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 10:53:53 AM

Think trillion dollar machines to remove CO2 and you might be close.

Someone out there needs to read up on Mr. Entropy.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 20, 2023, 10:55:48 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 10:53:53 AM

Think trillion dollar machines to remove CO2 and you might be close.

Someone out there needs to read up on Mr. Entropy. 

He used to post here. Had drinks with him in Lincoln. Good dood.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 11:01:44 AM

One of my favorite equations is the Gibbs equation:

 ΔG = ΔH − TΔS.

It says a lot about how things work, or don't.  The S of course is Entropy.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 20, 2023, 11:35:39 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 20, 2023, 08:44:39 AM

Have fun proving that Christ did not exist

He had to of,I always heard about him at the Browns & Indians Games and the Horse Track too

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 20, 2023, 11:42:15 AM

So Cindy yesterday drove out of the burbs to where the buses don't run and found a road side stand.Ya know the kind with the sign made out of cardboard and permanent marker.Any way she procured grown on the adjacent farm cukes,Heirlooms and sweet corn. I picked up from the butcher some smoked cheddar/jalapeno Bratwurst .So I lightly steamed the brats and corn,she sliced up the heirlooms and cukes and just salt & peppered them and butter on the corn. I can't recall something so simple & easy yet delicious - the most satisfying meal in I don't know when .Chased that down with a Molson Canadian .Nice day to sunny mid 70s with a nice breeze off the lake 😎

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 12:01:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 08:46:29 AM

I wouldn't think that possible, is it?  Something about proving a negative (which can be done in some cases).

Correct.
It's called "unfalsifiable" and instead of being the plus he probably thinks it is, it actually makes his claim fallacious, lol.  
But I bet he doesn't let that deter him!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 12:03:03 PM

Quote from: Volbrigade/oU on August 20, 2023, 12:21:56 AM

A penetrating intellect expressing unassailable logic and reason, with wit and humor and a warmth and generosity of spirit, utilizing an unsurpassed command of the English language that is a joy to consume.

TSL is a... well, diabolically accurate portrayal of man's perpetual spiritual and psychological condition.

MC is a collection of radio addresses delivered by Lewis during WWII, as the Nazi Blitz rained bombs on England.  He calmly and cheerfully, but forcefully, gave what I consider the most satisfying intellectual case for Christianity ever made.  One of the great minds of all time, skillfully crafting his argument to be understood by the common man.

There will be a long line in Heaven of former Whateverists who were enlightened by Lewis, waiting their turn to express their gratitude to this incomparable man.

I will be in it.
 

That's a lot of good stuff, but I don't see the word "evidence" anywhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 12:05:27 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 20, 2023, 08:29:30 AM

It isn't, but it is blessed and is symbolic.

Buuuuuut they think it is literally the flesh of Christ.  
What makes you (Protestants) right and them wrong?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 12:07:04 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 20, 2023, 08:44:39 AM

Have fun proving that Christ did not exist

I don't have to because I didn't make the claim that he didn't exist.
I said we don't know that he did exist.
You make the claim, so the burden of proof is on you, friend.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 20, 2023, 12:10:09 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 20, 2023, 09:49:19 AM

What "truth" do you have that replaces existential despair?

https://youtu.be/LARx7M9s15w?t=111

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 12:14:03 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 20, 2023, 09:49:19 AM

Yes. The truth.

Act like I've spent my entire live believing in God, and that's just been shattered. I've now accepted that when I die, it's all over. By the time my grandkids pass away, I'll be completely unremembered and nothing I do in my life, good or bad, is of any importance whatsoever, in the grand scheme of things.

What "truth" do you have that replaces existential despair?

For a time, sure.
But it's the same as with any bad news - the sooner you hear it, the sooner you can move on. 
The great thing about there being absolutely no reason for our existence is that the only thing you should do is live your one and only life in the most enjoyable way you can.
This doesn't mean a life of hedonism, as religious people seem to assume, but simply a good, enjoyable life with loved ones and proactively seeking happiness.  Your life becomes more precious when you're convinced you're worm food when you die.
.
I can't believe I'm debating the promotion of an obvious colossal lie to make people feel better.  We're adults.  We can deal.  We're not ignorant hunter-gatherers worried that the apple we stole caused the tornado that happened.
Prolonging the big fat lie will only make it worse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 20, 2023, 12:20:46 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 12:05:27 PM

Buuuuuut they think it is literally the flesh of Christ. 
What makes you (Protestants) right and them wrong?

I've eaten a lot of those stale wafers in my day.

Never thought I was cannable. 

Same with the watered-down wine.

I've never had a sip of blood, unless it was my own wound I was trying to stop.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 12:22:34 PM

If a religious belief set comforts a person and gives them useful purpose, I have no objection to it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 20, 2023, 12:28:45 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 12:22:34 PM

If a religious belief set comforts a person and gives them useful purpose, I have no objection to it.

some folks are not satisfied keeping their religious beliefs to themselves

They feel the need to either spread the word or spread the non belief word

either way there is nothing being spread but pointless dialogue

very similar to ranking one team above another prior to the start of the season

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 12:31:15 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 12:22:34 PM

If a religious belief set comforts a person and gives them useful purpose, I have no objection to it.

I feel the same way, except....we have politicians and decision-makers steering their actions with those religious beliefs.  If they kept it to themselves and kept it at home - NO problem with that.  But they don't.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 20, 2023, 12:37:15 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 12:31:15 PM

I feel the same way, except....we have politicians and decision-makers steering their actions with those religious beliefs.  If they kept it to themselves and kept it at home - NO problem with that.  But they don't. 

what law has been passed reflecting a religious belief hurting this country

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 12:37:54 PM

Well, I have no control over politicians obviously.  If they didn't do that, they'd do something else I dislike.  I suspect many of them are not very religious but see it as a key to being reelected.  So, they pander to a crowd.

They all do it, or nearly all.  Look at how the Democrats pander to the climate change alarmists with fake actions that are expensive and basically pointless.  That is a kind of religion, to me, a belief in a thing with no real knowledge of it.

Ban soft cheese.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 12:38:39 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 20, 2023, 12:37:15 PM

what law has been passed reflecting a religious belief hurting this country

I think we're at a limit here, you previously suggested we move on, and I agree.  This leads into another hot button topic we'd best leave alone, I think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 12:40:14 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 20, 2023, 12:37:15 PM

what law has been passed reflecting a religious belief hurting this country

It's funny, those laws tend to harm individuals not in the religious tribe.  Fun wording in your question, though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 20, 2023, 12:41:48 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 12:37:54 PM

Ban soft cheese.

Them's fightin' words.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 20, 2023, 12:43:56 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 12:40:14 PM

It's funny, those laws tend to harm individuals not in the religious tribe.  Fun wording in your question, though.

name one law that does that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 12:44:31 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/nXJiNz3.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 12:51:32 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 20, 2023, 12:43:56 PM

name one law that does that

There are none that you would accept.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 20, 2023, 01:01:58 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 12:51:32 PM

There are none that you would accept. 

ok MR All Hat and no Cattle

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 01:06:00 PM

I have a nice Stetson I never wear and no cattle.

I have way too many Braves caps.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 01:08:00 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 20, 2023, 01:01:58 PM

ok MR All Hat and no Cattle

There are none that you'd accept.
Have you met you?!?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 20, 2023, 01:20:06 PM

About 7 years ago we bought a $5K mattress. Probably never have to buy one again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 01:54:38 PM

But you poo-poo being wealthy.
Mmmmmkay.
I'm done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 20, 2023, 02:21:04 PM

When a company offers you 0% interest for 60 months, you do it. Free money.

$92/month for 5 years for a forever mattress seems like a smart move to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 20, 2023, 02:43:08 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 12:14:03 PM

.I can't believe I'm debating the promotion of an obvious colossal lie to make people feel better.  We're adults.  We can deal.  We're not ignorant hunter-gatherers worried that the apple we stole caused the tornado that happened.Prolonging the big fat lie will only make it worse.

I wouldn't call it a colossal lie,maybe religion is mistaken.But I wouldn't state with my dying breath "send me to eternal hell fire and unbearable anguish if a creator is really out there" either 😈

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 20, 2023, 02:45:19 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 20, 2023, 01:20:06 PM

About 7 years ago we bought a $5K mattress. Probably never have to buy one again.

Quit sleeping on the couch

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 20, 2023, 02:56:36 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 20, 2023, 12:43:56 PM

name one law that does that

Blue laws. Arbitrarily deciding *I* can't buy beer on Sunday because it's *your* sabbath. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 03:14:22 PM

In other news, I survived more pilates sessions.    My pitching coach has really taught me a LOT, and I'm still learning.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 03:17:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 20, 2023, 02:21:04 PM

When a company offers you 0% interest for 60 months, you do it. Free money.

$92/month for 5 years for a forever mattress seems like a smart move to me.

Just reinforcing my point.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 20, 2023, 03:22:04 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 20, 2023, 02:56:36 PM

Blue laws. Arbitrarily deciding *I* can't buy beer on Sunday because it's *your* sabbath.

we did away with that in Texas can by beer after 12 noon on Sunday

Not talking about weird State laws however

Im talking about Federal Law

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Volbrigade/oU on August 20, 2023, 04:43:04 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 12:03:03 PM

That's a lot of good stuff, but I don't see the word "evidence" anywhere.

Well thanks.  But you didn't ask for "evidence". 

Quote

I would ask, though, what specifically in those texts you mentioned steered you towards believing?

So that's what I tried to address.  That's about as "specific" as I can get.  I'm not sure I have the capacity to condense or abridge either Lewis work mentioned, without doing it injustice.  And not sure I would, if I could.
Tell you what -- if you're really interested, I'll be happy to address specific topics that he covers.  Here's the table of contents of Mere Christianity, if that's helpful.  One thing -- if you want to continue this conversation, do me a favor and PM that you've responded.  This is a monster thread -- four or five pages added, since my last post.  Most of it stuff I don't have the slightest interest in.  So I won't know if you've responded, unless I get a notification.

Quote

Mere Christianity
By C.S. Lewis
[img width=31.03125 height=0.703125 alt=page1image1524815568]http://blob:https://www.cfb51.com/47e9d3fa-612b-438a-9f11-9f0d7a3af0ca[/img] [img width=29.46875 height=0.703125 alt=page1image1524815888]http://blob:https://www.cfb51.com/453990e9-fedc-4f61-a8a1-e18f117e4723[/img] [img width=98.3125 height=0.703125 alt=page1image1524816464]http://blob:https://www.cfb51.com/c494d2ed-d2fc-445c-b89f-64c5a17849fa[/img] [img width=42.671875 height=0.703125 alt=page1image1524816656]http://blob:https://www.cfb51.com/b7d67280-ede9-4e6c-b618-e56994318efe[/img]
Book I. Right And Wrong As A Clue To The Meaning Of The Universe
1. The Law of Human Nature
2. Some Objections
3. The Reality of the Law
4. What Lies Behind the Law
5. We Have Cause to Be Uneasy
Book II What Christians Believe
1. The Rival Conceptions of God 2. The Invasion
3. The Shocking Alternative
4. The Perfect Penitent
5. The Practical Conclusion Book III. Christian Behaviour
1. The Three Parts of Morality 2. The "Cardinal Virtues"
3. Social Morality
4. Morality and Psychoanalysis 5. Sexual Morality
6. Christian Marriage 7. Forgiveness
8. The Great Sin
9. Charity
10. Hope 11. Faith 12. Faith
[img width=359.59375 height=0.703125 alt=page1image1524868064]http://blob:https://www.cfb51.com/4441f3b3-1052-4731-a366-0167e1f8ced2[/img] [img width=137.578125 height=0.703125 alt=page1image1524868384]http://blob:https://www.cfb51.com/5cde9410-330a-464b-bee8-b1fceb237c39[/img] [img width=113.859375 height=0.703125 alt=page1image1524868640]http://blob:https://www.cfb51.com/dc706454-0df5-450e-aca4-c584eda3e3a2[/img]
Book IV. Beyond Personality: Or First Steps In The Doctrine Of The Trinity
[img width=374.78125 height=0.703125 alt=page1image1524875232]http://blob:https://www.cfb51.com/5c4a011d-8232-48e2-9077-acdf8c74f721[/img]

1. Making and Begetting
2. The Three-Personal God
3. Time and Beyond Time
4. Good Infection
5. The Obstinate Toy Soldiers 6. Two Notes
7. Let's Pretend
8. Is Christianity Hard or Easy? 9. Counting the Cost
10. Nice People or New Men 11. The New Men

Now, my experience is that these conversations tend to peter out at this point.  And -- all due respect -- but when people begin to demand "evidence" for the existence of God -- as in "empirical evidence" -- what they're really looking for are confirmations for their unbelief.  The evidence for God is necessarily inferential.  When it becomes "empirical", faith will no longer be needed.  Or possible.  Even the evidence for the existence of Jesus is inferential, as it is for nearly ALL figures from antiquity (the Egyptian Pharaohs would be exceptions.  We have their mummies).  We infer that Julius Caesar existed, because of historical writings.  Stuff named after him.  Etc.

Same with Jesus.  We infer that a story that features actual historical figures -- Pilate, Nicodemus, Joseph of Arimetha, Peter, Paul, John (the Baptist and the Apostle), Felix, Herod(s), Festus -- on and on -- has historical basis.  And the fact that He had followers who lived lives of toil and deprivation, and came to agonizingly bad ends, is further inference and indication of Jesus' existence.  People don't die for something they know to be untrue.

Let me know if any of the above provokes a response. 

Otherwise:  my work here is done.

Y'all be good -- heah?

Oh -- one last thing.  A really good presentation of MC, in video form, if anyone wants to get a taste.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmHXYhpEDfM

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 20, 2023, 06:06:53 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 20, 2023, 03:22:04 PM

we did away with that in Texas can by beer after 12 noon on Sunday

Not talking about weird State laws however

Im talking about Federal Law

I don't think OAM was complaining ONLY about federal law. It's wrong whether done on the federal OR the state level.

Seems convenient that you're asking for an example, I provided one, and then you want to reframe and narrow the discussion to ONLY be federal. Nice dodge!

------------------

Edit: One more question. Does Texas bar sales of alcohol before noon on Monday through Saturday? If not, then you're still discriminating with a religious law barring sales before noon on Sunday. The only rationale I can think of is "well we shouldn't let people drink when they should be in church!"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 20, 2023, 06:25:01 PM

You can buy beer and wine in Texas on Sunday, but not hard liquor.

Yes, the blue laws are clearly religious in origin, and they're antiquated and stupid.

Not sure why anyone would argue otherwise.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 07:38:01 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 20, 2023, 06:06:53 PM

Seems convenient that you're asking for an example, I provided one, and then you want to reframe and narrow the discussion to ONLY be federal. Nice dodge!

This is why I don't bother with him.  Unreachable.  Unreasonable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 20, 2023, 07:40:27 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 20, 2023, 06:25:01 PM

You can buy beer and wine in Texas on Sunday, but not hard liquor.

Yes, the blue laws are clearly religious in origin, and they're antiquated and stupid.

Not sure why anyone would argue otherwise.

I never considered local laws in this discussion cause of course people are going to govern locally in accprdance with their own preference which many times is based on religion

But the other side to that coin is its local and does not affect other areas of the country


This country was founded on certain freedoms such as speech and religion and local laws often reflect that


Thats why some parts of Texas are dry alcohol wise to this day

Its interesting that on a national level you cant give an example of this but only on a local level

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 07:43:04 PM

@Volbrigade/oU (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1836) Faith is the thing people cite when they lack a good reason. 
We can just draw the line right there.

Is there any opinion a person could not hold, based on faith?
I could have faith that Asian people are better than Brazilian people.
I could have faith I won't be hit by a vehicle if I don't look both ways before crossing the road.
I could have faith Florida will go 12-0 this year.

So if you're a proponent of something that requires a lack of evidence, you're right, the conversation is over.  You're demonstrably unreasonable and I'm not a fan of a method which is an extremely poor way of finding the truth.  Faith is not a good way of finding the truth.  Might as well flip a coin.

The bible is true because the bible says it's true.
You need faith to believe in god and faith can be used to believe in anything. 
This isn't hard. 
It's silly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 07:45:45 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 20, 2023, 07:40:27 PM

I never considered local laws in this discussion cause of course people are going to govern locally in accprdance with their own preference which many times is based on religion

But the other side to that coin is its local and does not affect other areas of the country


This country was founded on certain freedoms such as speech and religion and local laws often reflect that


Thats why some parts of Texas are dry alcohol wise to this day

Its interesting that on a national level you cant give an example of this but only on a local level

You're advocating for something like if 60% of locals want to ban furnikayshun out of wedlock, they can, and it's cool.  Because it's local.  Fuck the other 40%, they don't count.

My issue was never with federal laws, that's something you brought up.  I was talking about the president praying about important decisions.  That scares the hell out of me.  And so do you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 07:52:35 PM

Florida had a starting DE and our 3rd-string RB tear their knees, out for the year.  
Fun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 20, 2023, 07:56:53 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 07:45:45 PM

You're advocating for something like if 60% of locals want to ban furnikayshun out of wedlock, they can, and it's cool.  Because it's local.  Fuck the other 40%, they don't count.

My issue was never with federal laws, that's something you brought up.  I was talking about the president praying about important decisions.  That scares the hell out of me.  And so do you.

People feel the way they do about various issues for many reasons one of which might be religion and if that scares you just find out if a candidate ever prays and dont vote for him

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 20, 2023, 08:33:03 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 20, 2023, 07:40:27 PM

Its interesting that on a national level you cant give an example of this but only on a local level

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_Marriage_Act

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 20, 2023, 08:55:38 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 20, 2023, 08:33:03 PM

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_Marriage_Act

good example fortunately this was replaced

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Volbrigade/oU on August 20, 2023, 09:12:46 PM

Thanks for the tag, @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) .

Sorry to hear the conversation’s over.  Breakin’ up is hard to do…

I’ll even graciously defer from pointing out it would be impossible for you to keep up…

I’ll just address your main point — such as it is — while leaving your pointless — and baseless — allegations aside.

 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?topic=18271.msg541186#msg541186)

Quote

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?topic=18271.msg541186#msg541186) 8/20/2023, 7:43:04 PM
Is there any opinion a person could not hold, based on faith?

Can’t think of one.

That’s why I joined the convo.  To concur with the derision of “religion”.  As I mentioned earlier — all are false.  They all have faith in the wrong things — e.g., human sacrifice, to appease some “god”.  That applies to secular faith issues, as well (M2M; and seculars have their own “sacrament” — abortion on demand).  As I mentioned.  I find myself having to repeat myself a LOT to secular Whateverists.  They have programmed, ingrained, indoctrinated patterns of thinking that are nearly impossible to work around.  Hardened, narrow ideologies that are nearly impossible to penetrate.

“Faith is only as good as its object.”

That faith in that rusted old Corvair, that it’ll get you across the country? Maybe not so good.

That faith in that stripper or porn star that you’ve been dating, that she’ll remain faithful to you?  Highly doubtful.

But faith in things we know to be true has value.  Agreed?

Faith that the hammer you drop from a 10-story building will hit the ground?  Pretty well-placed.  Faith that it won’t injure anyone in the process?  A little shaky.

So.  What we want is truth.  Is it not?  So that we can put our FAITH in it?

The question, then, is:  does God exist?  A LOT depends on the answer to that question.  Everything, in fact.  All other questions — what is He like?  What does He want?  Why did He make all this?  What are we supposed to do? —

derive from the answer to the first question.

There’s only two ways God could reveal His existence to us:

directly.  Or indirectly.

Now you will deny that He’s ever revealed Himself directly.  Fine.

But any reasonable person can assess His existence by indirect means.  The Cosmological argument.  The Teleological Argument…

Summed up:  for there to be a Creation, there’s got to be a Creator.  The only question is — what IS it?

Science can’t tell us.  As I explained here, on a Christian facebook group, to a professed Christian who said:

Quote

Quote

//I’m with science...//

I’m with science, as well. Along with its handmaidens, reason and logic.
They can only be properly employed within the context of informed FAITH. Else they are doomed to culminate in error.
Logic says that “everything that HAS A BEGINNING must have a cause.”
Logic also states that the universe had a beginning. If it were infinitely old, it would be uniformly cold, at absolute zero. And “no further ‘work’ could be done.”
“Science” expresses this truth in the various Big Bang theories — all of which have insurmountable problems, addressed by fabricated, ad hoc solutions.
People of faith assign the CAUSE of the universe to God.
“Science” has nothing to say on this matter. Science is the systematic, analytical study of Nature — space, time, matter (that God created, wink). It has nothing to say about a “Cause” that lies outside of that Nature.
What we refer to as the secular model of “Evolution” — the idea that living microbes emerged from non-life, in a universe necessarily billions of years old, in order to accommodate this process by “natural”, uniformitarian means —
has been exposed to be scientifically invalid and logically impossible. There is not enough time or bandwidth to go into why, here. There are many excellent information ministries that can be accessed for that purpose (CMI, AIG, ICR). Simply put: even the “simplest cell” is far too complex, and requires far too many “chicken or egg” conundrums for it to have arisen by “natural”, mindless, random processes. Or to have climbed any fictitious “evolutionary ladder” (by persistently undiscovered processes) in order to arrive from microbe to microbiologist. Yet the entire M2M paradigm — including the cosmological setting in which it takes place — is nothing more than an irrational rationalization to provide an explanation of our existence that excludes that of God. Or, even more irrationally and absurdly, insists that even if God exists, it makes no difference to “scientific” observations and theories.
Perhaps even more irrationally, compromising Christians embrace this paradigm, that all of us have been conditioned and programmed to accept from infancy by the education/media/gov’t nexus. It is the “intellectual” atmosphere that we breathe. And dissent from it is not allowed.
You therefore essentially have professing Christians who are apologists for the M2M fallacy. They merely smear a thin and unconvincing “God did it that way” veneer over it.
For those with the intellectual courage to question and challenge their lifelong secular indoctrination, it quickly becomes apparent that the Biblical source of origins and history is the ONLY explanation that accords with God’s gifts of “Science”, logic, and reason.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 20, 2023, 10:27:51 PM

I bought a $500 mattress almost 30 years ago

might not have to buy another one

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 11:14:36 PM

When you eventually move those 900 year old mattresses someday, think about why they're so heavy.

That's nasty.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 11:18:45 PM

Quote from: Volbrigade/oU on August 20, 2023, 09:12:46 PM

Thanks for the tag, @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) .

Sorry to hear the conversation’s over.  Breakin’ up is hard to do…

I’ll even graciously defer from pointing out it would be impossible for you to keep up…

I’ll just address your main point — such as it is — while leaving your pointless — and baseless — allegations aside.

 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?topic=18271.msg541186#msg541186)
Can’t think of one.

That’s why I joined the convo.  To concur with the derision of “religion”.  As I mentioned earlier — all are false.  They all have faith in the wrong things — e.g., human sacrifice, to appease some “god”.  That applies to secular faith issues, as well (M2M; and seculars have their own “sacrament” — abortion on demand).  As I mentioned.  I find myself having to repeat myself a LOT to secular Whateverists.  They have programmed, ingrained, indoctrinated patterns of thinking that are nearly impossible to work around.  Hardened, narrow ideologies that are nearly impossible to penetrate.

“Faith is only as good as its object.”

That faith in that rusted old Corvair, that it’ll get you across the country? Maybe not so good.

That faith in that stripper or porn star that you’ve been dating, that she’ll remain faithful to you?  Highly doubtful.

But faith in things we know to be true has value.  Agreed?

Faith that the hammer you drop from a 10-story building will hit the ground?  Pretty well-placed.  Faith that it won’t injure anyone in the process?  A little shaky.

So.  What we want is truth.  Is it not?  So that we can put our FAITH in it?

The question, then, is:  does God exist?  A LOT depends on the answer to that question.  Everything, in fact.  All other questions — what is He like?  What does He want?  Why did He make all this?  What are we supposed to do? —

derive from the answer to the first question.

There’s only two ways God could reveal His existence to us:

directly.  Or indirectly.

Now you will deny that He’s ever revealed Himself directly.  Fine.

But any reasonable person can assess His existence by indirect means.  The Cosmological argument.  The Teleological Argument…

Summed up:  for there to be a Creation, there’s got to be a Creator.  The only question is — what IS it?

Science can’t tell us.  As I explained here, on a Christian facebook group, to a professed Christian who said:



I’m with science, as well. Along with its handmaidens, reason and logic.
They can only be properly employed within the context of informed FAITH. Else they are doomed to culminate in error.
Logic says that “everything that HAS A BEGINNING must have a cause.”
Logic also states that the universe had a beginning. If it were infinitely old, it would be uniformly cold, at absolute zero. And “no further ‘work’ could be done.”
“Science” expresses this truth in the various Big Bang theories — all of which have insurmountable problems, addressed by fabricated, ad hoc solutions.
People of faith assign the CAUSE of the universe to God.
“Science” has nothing to say on this matter. Science is the systematic, analytical study of Nature — space, time, matter (that God created, wink). It has nothing to say about a “Cause” that lies outside of that Nature.
What we refer to as the secular model of “Evolution” — the idea that living microbes emerged from non-life, in a universe necessarily billions of years old, in order to accommodate this process by “natural”, uniformitarian means —
has been exposed to be scientifically invalid and logically impossible. There is not enough time or bandwidth to go into why, here. There are many excellent information ministries that can be accessed for that purpose (CMI, AIG, ICR). Simply put: even the “simplest cell” is far too complex, and requires far too many “chicken or egg” conundrums for it to have arisen by “natural”, mindless, random processes. Or to have climbed any fictitious “evolutionary ladder” (by persistently undiscovered processes) in order to arrive from microbe to microbiologist. Yet the entire M2M paradigm — including the cosmological setting in which it takes place — is nothing more than an irrational rationalization to provide an explanation of our existence that excludes that of God. Or, even more irrationally and absurdly, insists that even if God exists, it makes no difference to “scientific” observations and theories.
Perhaps even more irrationally, compromising Christians embrace this paradigm, that all of us have been conditioned and programmed to accept from infancy by the education/media/gov’t nexus. It is the “intellectual” atmosphere that we breathe. And dissent from it is not allowed.
You therefore essentially have professing Christians who are apologists for the M2M fallacy. They merely smear a thin and unconvincing “God did it that way” veneer over it.
For those with the intellectual courage to question and challenge their lifelong secular indoctrination, it quickly becomes apparent that the Biblical source of origins and history is the ONLY explanation that accords with God’s gifts of “Science”, logic, and reason.

@Volbrigade/oU (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1836) 
You seemed nice in your initial post.  Now I see that's gone.

Saying "I'm with science" when it comes to not knowing the origins of existence = saying "I don't know."  It is not looking around for the most pleasant fiction you can find and tossing your lot in with that.
When we don't know something, the answer isn't to turn to faith.  We don't have faith that your hammer is going to hit the ground, we have endless examples of gravity happening.  We don't turn to faith, we simply are stuck at "I don't know" until we learn more.

I have the sneaking suspicion that like 90% of believers are simply guilty of the argument from incredulity (another fallacy).  You simply cannot fathom there not being a god, so there must be one.

Do you know what a godless universe would look like?  Look around. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 21, 2023, 12:18:24 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 07:43:04 PM

I could have faith Florida will go 12-0 this year.

You don't have a Prayer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Volbrigade/oU on August 21, 2023, 12:26:16 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 11:18:45 PM

@Volbrigade/oU (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1836)
You seemed nice in your initial post.  Now I see that's gone.

Saying "I'm with science" when it comes to not knowing the origins of existence = saying "I don't know."  It is not looking around for the most pleasant fiction you can find and tossing your lot in with that.
When we don't know something, the answer isn't to turn to faith.  We don't have faith that your hammer is going to hit the ground, we have endless examples of gravity happening.  We don't turn to faith, we simply are stuck at "I don't know" until we learn more.

I have the sneaking suspicion that like 90% of believers are simply guilty of the argument from incredulity (another fallacy).  You simply cannot fathom there not being a god, so there must be one.

Do you know what a godless universe would look like?  Look around.

I wasn't nice?
Hunhh.

Okey dokey.  Thanks for the responses.  And the tags.  I'll return the favor, @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) 

This probably won't sound nice, either -- sorry -- but I've had a zillion convos with guys just like you, on a variety of sites.  You're pretty interchangeable.  And I've heard it all before.  And held pretty much the same views you have now.  We've all been fed the same materialist dogma, right?

It doesn't hold water.  Which is fine, I guess, as long as you don't examine it.  As long as you're not interested in truth.  Your standard-issue Whateverist is like the guy who's been shot in the gut.  He's afraid to look down. 

I just dropped by when I was linked here.  The education-"religion" thing.  I just wanted to point out that as a Christian, I'm definitely anti-religion.  Christianity has been perverted by men into becoming a "religion", with rules, rites, etc.  Legalism and Christianity are in opposition, however.  Christ never forced anyone to do anything.  And the only rule, once one has accepted Christ as Savior, by accepting the gift of grace and mercy afforded by His death and resurrection -- and ANYONE can accept a gift -- is to love God.  And your neighbor as yourself.

Past that -- since I'm not interested in anything you have to say, and you clearly reciprocate, and don't have any questions for me...

Let's just leave it at that, eh?

Adios, amigo. 

(EDIT) -- one last thing:

Quote

Do you know what a godless universe would look like?  Look around.

  

You're confusing a Godless society with a "Godless universe".

God is a prerequisite for both the universe.  And the human society that resides in it.

He has given man the capacity, and choice, to worship or deny Him.

Farewell.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 21, 2023, 12:40:39 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 20, 2023, 08:55:38 PM

good example fortunately this was replaced

You mean declared unconstitutional by SCOTUS. Not like lawmakers suddenly just came to their senses.

Which proves OAM's point. Politics has many people who are looking to codify Christian rules into law.

And BTW the state/federal dichotomy holds no water. Generally the Feds don't have much in the way of "police powers", so that's gonna be state or local 95% of the time...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 21, 2023, 01:42:46 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 21, 2023, 12:40:39 AM

You mean declared unconstitutional by SCOTUS. Not like lawmakers suddenly just came to their senses.

Which proves OAM's point. Politics has many people who are looking to codify Christian rules into law.

And BTW the state/federal dichotomy holds no water. Generally the Feds don't have much in the way of "police powers", so that's gonna be state or local 95% of the time...

youre wrong here

Obamacare requirement to purchase insurance is an example

The Fed has plenty of police powers over anything not reserved for the states

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 21, 2023, 01:47:39 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 21, 2023, 12:40:39 AM

You mean declared unconstitutional by SCOTUS. Not like lawmakers suddenly just came to their senses.

Which proves OAM's point. Politics has many people who are looking to codify Christian rules into law.

And BTW the state/federal dichotomy holds no water. Generally the Feds don't have much in the way of "police powers", so that's gonna be state or local 95% of the time...

One example does not mean this is true at the Fed level

sure there are all kinds of hairbrained stupid ideas proposed by various groups but fortunately most never actually become law

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 21, 2023, 08:28:35 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 20, 2023, 10:27:51 PM

I bought a $500 mattress almost 30 years ago

might not have to buy another one

Me also Original Matress Factory is located here and that's about what I paid for their top of the line Xtra-Firm Matress. And that it is indeed what it is - almost too firm. After about 26 yrs of rotating between that,the recliner in and the coach it's just getting broke in

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 21, 2023, 08:52:18 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 11:14:36 PM

When you eventually move those 900 year old mattresses someday, think about why they're so heavy.

That's nasty.

Oh, I flip it each way occasionally
I also use mattress pads and sheets which are laundered regularly

There are many things in life that are down right nasty.

I've not encountered the disposable mattress that has an expiration date.

do you also dispose of pillows and couches and recliners? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 21, 2023, 09:37:54 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 21, 2023, 01:42:46 AM

youre wrong here

Obamacare requirement to purchase insurance is an example

The Fed has plenty of police powers over anything not reserved for the states

Not true. In fact, the argument made before SCOTUS was that the mandate was just a tax. Not a matter of police powers. 

Historically, police powers have MOSTLY been handled by the states. It's why all the states that have legalized marijuana, still illegal at the federal level, aren't being canvassed by federal agents---the Feds don't have close to the manpower on the streets to enforce such a thing. The only teeth that federal prohibition has ever had, at least at the street level, is that local and state cops were enforcing their own state laws against marijuana. 

The feds get involved with things like trafficking, money laundering, etc but simply don't have the time or the people to do much at all. So *most* of the police powers devolve to the states. Perhaps I was wrong to say "they don't have much", but it would not be wrong to say that they have a minority share in policing relative to the states. 

So it is ENTIRELY appropriate to talk about these laws at the state level. It's where the laws would generally be made, and it's where they would generally be enforced. 

In fact, the DOMA was really about the federal government not recognizing same-sex marriage. It didn't even stop the states from performing them, because marriages aren't even a federal concern except for limited areas like taxation and things like spousal privilege in a court of law. 

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 21, 2023, 01:47:39 AM

One example does not mean this is true at the Fed level

sure there are all kinds of hairbrained stupid ideas proposed by various groups but fortunately most never actually become law

Also changing the subject. OAM was saying that he has no problem with religious people who consider it their personal domain. He has a problem (as do I) with people in power even attempting to make laws based on religion. Because at that point it is expressly NOT a personal domain and trying to restrict the rights of others based on their belief in religion. 

I provided one example at the fed level. I could provide hundreds at the state and local level. 

Is it hard for you to admit that it happens and it's improper, rather than just saying "well I was talking about the feds and yeah you got me with DOMA but it was struck down by SCOTUS after 20 years of mucking up people's private lives so it doesn't count."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2023, 09:42:04 AM

We've had various laws based on religious beliefs in the past, I think it safe to say.

The scope of what is a Federal crime has expanded a lot over the past century.  Before that point, there were very few, things like treason.  Murder was not, and still is not in the general sense.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 21, 2023, 09:47:38 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 03:17:07 PM

Just reinforcing my point.

Point?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 21, 2023, 09:52:09 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 11:18:45 PM

@Volbrigade/oU (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1836)
You seemed nice in your initial post.  Now I see that's gone.

WTF did you expect when you posted this in response to his prior post?

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 07:43:04 PM

  
This isn't hard. 
It's silly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 21, 2023, 09:53:17 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2023, 11:14:36 PM

When you eventually move those 900 year old mattresses someday, think about why they're so heavy.

That's nasty.

Mattress pads are your friend. So is a mattress that you don't sweat on, because it has cooling gel built in.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 21, 2023, 02:28:48 PM

Replying to this post from the weather/environment thread here because this gets more into political economy rather than actually having anything to do with the environment...

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 21, 2023, 02:20:20 PM

Jeb Bush did away with emissions testing in Florida. Too expensive ($50Mil/year) and the State met all Federal clean air standards.

At the time did you run into a sort of "Baptist and the bootlegger" fight against him doing that? 

Idea that the Baptists want to ban booze for moral reasons and the bootleggers profit wildly when booze is illegal, so while the two would never see eye to eye in general, they are both in favor of booze being illegal. 

I'd think ending emissions testing would piss off the environmentalists who would predict we're all gonna die from pollution, with an entrenched lobby of emissions testers who know they'll be out of jobs if the testing is no longer mandatory--whether that's independent testers (like in CA) worried about revenue, or whether they're a state-owned enterprise perhaps having some sort of public sector union fighting for them. 

Would love to know how that played out...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 21, 2023, 02:37:51 PM

I didn't even know they did it until I moved here, so I have no idea how it played out here.

Florida was much more purple in those days than it is now.

There are no liquor bans here, unless maybe some local thing, which I don't know.

What I don't like is having to go to two stores for booze and food. Grocery stores cannot sell sprits - only beer and wine. That's weird to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2023, 02:42:46 PM

Ohio had some 300 feet blue law, and there was a nice restaurant inside that zone near a church, they couldn't serve alcohol until noon on Sunday, or something.  I think that law was banned.  North Carolina and some other states have "ABC" stores that sell hard liquor, you can't get it elsewhere.  Here, the Krogers can't/don't either, but private liquor stores abound.  There is a good one near me, I think the prices are all the same.  The liquor stores don't see any food items, but they sell beer/wine.

My buddy who owned the wine shop told me the Ohio laws were beyond arcane and bizarre.  He had to get one license called a "tasting license" and then another one that enable on premise consumption, and had to put up a railing around the area where it was legal.  Most places have open container bans.  The one here was dropped during COVID and I never heard if it came back.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 21, 2023, 03:39:57 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 21, 2023, 02:37:51 PM

What I don't like is having to go to two stores for booze and food. Grocery stores cannot sell sprits - only beer and wine. That's weird to me.

Same thing in Texico.  

I was surprised the first time I wandered through a grocery store in California and found an aisle with all hard liquor.  Surprised-- and delighted!

And also the same thing for convenience stores.  7-11 in Texas doesn't carry booze, just beer and wine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 21, 2023, 03:52:26 PM

I blame the religious freaks

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2023, 07:21:29 PM

I once tried buying beer in Gallup, NM on a Sunday.  After visiting several places and being amazed that you can't buy it at all, I was told to "go up the hill and there's a place on the left."  
I had to go through the back of a bar at like 9am to get it illegally, I guess.

Because Jesus.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2023, 07:24:58 PM

Quote from: Volbrigade/oU on August 20, 2023, 09:12:46 PM

Thanks for the tag, @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) .

Sorry to hear the conversation’s over.  Breakin’ up is hard to do…

I’ll even graciously defer from pointing out it would be impossible for you to keep up…

I’ll just address your main point — such as it is — while leaving your pointless — and baseless — allegations aside.

 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?topic=18271.msg541186#msg541186)
Can’t think of one.

That’s why I joined the convo.  To concur with the derision of “religion”.  As I mentioned earlier — all are false.  They all have faith in the wrong things — e.g., human sacrifice, to appease some “god”.  That applies to secular faith issues, as well (M2M; and seculars have their own “sacrament” — abortion on demand).  I'll bet you my annual salary that believers get more abortions per capita than atheists do. 
As I mentioned.  I find myself having to repeat myself a LOT to secular Whateverists.  They have programmed, ingrained, indoctrinated patterns of thinking that are nearly impossible to work around.  Hardened, narrow ideologies that are nearly impossible to penetrate.  I had to read this twice...you're suggesting there's secular indoctrination with narrow ideologies?!?  This is precisely backwards.  You're describing religion, of which your faith belief is a part of (not apart from).

“Faith is only as good as its object.”

That faith in that rusted old Corvair, that it’ll get you across the country? Maybe not so good.

That faith in that stripper or porn star that you’ve been dating, that she’ll remain faithful to you?  Highly doubtful.

But faith in things we know to be true has value.  Agreed?

Faith that the hammer you drop from a 10-story building will hit the ground?  Pretty well-placed.  Faith that it won’t injure anyone in the process?  A little shaky.

So.  What we want is truth.  Is it not?  So that we can put our FAITH in it?

The question, then, is:  does God exist?  A LOT depends on the answer to that question.  Everything, in fact.  All other questions — what is He like?  What does He want?  Why did He make all this?  What are we supposed to do? —

derive from the answer to the first question.

There’s only two ways God could reveal His existence to us:

directly.  Or indirectly.

Now you will deny that He’s ever revealed Himself directly.  Fine.

But any reasonable person can assess His existence by indirect means.  The Cosmological argument.  The Teleological Argument…

Summed up:  for there to be a Creation, there’s got to be a Creator.  The only question is — what IS it?  you asserting everything was created doesn't make it so

Science can’t tell us.  As I explained here, on a Christian facebook group, to a professed Christian who said:



I’m with science, as well. Along with its handmaidens, reason and logic.
They can only be properly employed within the context of informed FAITH. Else they are doomed to culminate in error.
Logic says that “everything that HAS A BEGINNING must have a cause.”
Logic also states that the universe had a beginning. If it were infinitely old, it would be uniformly cold, at absolute zero. And “no further ‘work’ could be done.”
“Science” expresses this truth in the various Big Bang theories — all of which have insurmountable problems, addressed by fabricated, ad hoc solutions.
People of faith assign the CAUSE of the universe to God.
“Science” has nothing to say on this matter. Science is the systematic, analytical study of Nature — space, time, matter (that God created, wink). It has nothing to say about a “Cause” that lies outside of that Nature.
What we refer to as the secular model of “Evolution” — the idea that living microbes emerged from non-life, in a universe necessarily billions of years old, in order to accommodate this process by “natural”, uniformitarian means —  that isn't evolution, it's abiogenesis
has been exposed to be scientifically invalid and logically impossible. There is not enough time or bandwidth to go into why, here. There are many excellent information ministries that can be accessed for that purpose (CMI, AIG, ICR). Simply put: even the “simplest cell” is far too complex, and requires far too many “chicken or egg” conundrums for it to have arisen by “natural”, mindless, random processes. Or to have climbed any fictitious “evolutionary ladder” (by persistently undiscovered processes) in order to arrive from microbe to microbiologist. Yet the entire M2M paradigm — including the cosmological setting in which it takes place — is nothing more than an irrational rationalization to provide an explanation of our existence that excludes that of God. Or, even more irrationally and absurdly, insists that even if God exists, it makes no difference to “scientific” observations and theories.  argument from incredulity (fallacy)
Perhaps even more irrationally, compromising Christians embrace this paradigm, that all of us have been conditioned and programmed to accept from infancy by the education/media/gov’t nexus. It is the “intellectual” atmosphere that we breathe. And dissent from it is not allowed.
You therefore essentially have professing Christians who are apologists for the M2M fallacy. They merely smear a thin and unconvincing “God did it that way” veneer over it.
For those with the intellectual courage to question and challenge their lifelong secular indoctrination you're joking here, right?? , it quickly becomes apparent that the Biblical source of origins and history is the ONLY explanation that accords with God’s gifts of “Science”, logic, and reason. if you were raised in Indonesia, you'd sing a different tune

I'll believe in the very first god that provides evidence it exists.
@Volbrigade/oU (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1836)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2023, 07:30:57 PM

I've got to say, you are the very first person I've seen to ever suggest secular indoctrination.  Hell, you've probably invented the term!

You pulled it out of your ass.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 21, 2023, 07:32:41 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 21, 2023, 02:37:51 PM

I didn't even know they did it until I moved here, so I have no idea how it played out here.

Florida was much more purple in those days than it is now.

There are no liquor bans here, unless maybe some local thing, which I don't know.

What I don't like is having to go to two stores for booze and food. Grocery stores cannot sell sprits - only beer and wine. That's weird to me.

Don't you have to go to the liquor store to buy beer in Chicago? 

I remember trying three different gas stations there, none had beer. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on August 21, 2023, 08:12:27 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2023, 07:30:57 PM

I've got to say, you are the very first person I've seen to ever suggest secular indoctrination.  Hell, you've probably invented the term!

You pulled it out of your ass.

(https://external-preview.redd.it/ddRk4MMZVqW5L9cRPUVa1gd1EVGVLbuq-R8jyoxVsnY.jpg?auto=webp&s=99bacd64bf42d351910bfdf17e9d1c817415468d)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2023, 08:21:59 PM

This is one helluva thing......believers citing the indoctrination of secular ideas.  I've seen it all now.  

One thing you can say about all of those evils in your image there, only the church starts them so young.  How noble.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: jgvol on August 21, 2023, 08:26:14 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2023, 08:21:59 PM

This is one helluva thing......believers citing the indoctrination of secular ideas.  I've seen it all now. 

One thing you can say about all of those evils in your image there, only the church starts them so young.  How noble.

You must have missed drag queen story hour.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 21, 2023, 09:24:09 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2023, 07:21:29 PM

I had to go through the back of a bar at like 9am to get it illegally, I guess.

Because Jesus.

Well praise the Lord you found it, see God worx in mysterious wayz

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Volbrigade/oU on August 21, 2023, 09:38:27 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2023, 07:24:58 PM

I'll believe in the very first god that provides evidence it exists.
@Volbrigade/oU (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1836)

@OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58)    :

LOL.  Read through your response.  Never heard any of that before...
I've been through all of this so many times, with so many interchangeable secular Whateverists.  Some of them quite bright and credentialed -- others, not so much.
I'm not really inclined to do so again. 
What I've found is that unless someone is earnestly searching for, seeking after, answers and truth --
then there's no point in engaging.
The vast majority are not.  They accept, and are comfortable with, their secular indoctrination.  it requires no effort on their part.  And it benefits them financially and socially.  Why rock the boat?

If someone is satisfied with the idea that the universe just sorta happened, we know not how; that dirt organized itself into the precise alignment of the amino acids to form the precise alignment of proteins to fashion a precision information code for the formation of life, by random and accidental and mindless processes, before there was a living cell to form the code;

and then once formed, that first living cell proceeded to turn into every living thing on one randomly ideal privileged planet -- including the cellular biologist who decided that's how it musta happened -- by processes that haven't been identified;  

in a cosmos that is void of Intelligence or Design:

go for, it guv.  Have at it.  Cheers.

Now.  I'm going to tell you something that I'm afraid you're not going to like. 

There is probably nothing you know -- or think you do -- on this topic that I don't know already.  And have long since rejected as being insufficient and fallacious.

Ergo:  you have no information to provide to me.

I have mountains of information to provide to you.

You're not interested in it.

And there's an end to it.

If you really want to carry this, er... discussion forward though, I suggest it take place on Area 51.  This is a sports page we're on now (with, I see, a lot of latitude).  But I'm a great believer in quarantining topics such as we've embarked on away from the purity and beauty of sports.  That's what '51 is for.

I take it you weren't interested in the Lewis material.  Not surprising.

You won't be interested in this, either, but I'll offer it anyway.  It's an open, non-anonymous debate with a professed atheist that took place on the fb page of my (formerly) local paper.  And was published on the website of a prominent neuro-surgeon, which is frequented by some pretty highly credentialed intellectual heavy hitters.

Why not glance over it, and see if there's anything we could talk about that is not touched on here?  Or if it provokes any dialogue you want to carry over to '51?

Vaya con Dios.

https://www.cfb51.com/area-51/vbou-vs-prominent-atheist!/

 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2023, 10:58:44 PM

Quote from: Volbrigade/oU on August 21, 2023, 09:38:27 PM

@OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58)    :

LOL.  Read through your response.  Never heard any of that before...  but you told me I'm like all the others...
I've been through all of this so many times, with so many interchangeable secular Whateverists.  Some of them quite bright and credentialed -- others, not so much.
I'm not really inclined to do so again. 
What I've found is that unless someone is earnestly searching for, seeking after, answers and truth --  science has nothing to do with truth, simply models supported by current evidence
then there's no point in engaging.
The vast majority are not.  They accept, and are comfortable with, their secular indoctrination.  it requires no effort on their part.  And it benefits them financially and socially.  Why rock the boat?
you're really fond of that fantasy phrase (secular indoctrination)
If someone is satisfied with the idea that the universe just sorta happened, we know not how; that dirt organized itself into the precise alignment of the amino acids to form the precise alignment of proteins to fashion a precision information code for the formation of life, by random and accidental and mindless processes, before there was a living cell to form the code;

and then once formed, that first living cell proceeded to turn into every living thing on one randomly ideal privileged planet -- including the cellular biologist who decided that's how it musta happened -- by processes that haven't been identified; 

in a cosmos that is void of Intelligence or Design:

go for, it guv.  Have at it.  Cheers.

You could discover that all scientific models of how things came to be this way are false.  You could disprove evolution, reveal the big bang as an elaborate hoax, etc..........but that wouldn't mean god did it.

The time to believe in a god (any god) is when the available evidence supports it.  Not simply because you choose not to believe the scientific model based on the best available evidence.

Your entire reason for believing seems to be simple incredulity.  It'd be fascinating if it wasn't so common.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 22, 2023, 08:06:25 AM

"science has nothing to do with truth" is an interesting comment.

"We" seem to rely on science a lot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 22, 2023, 08:11:01 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on August 21, 2023, 07:32:41 PM

Don't you have to go to the liquor store to buy beer in Chicago?

I remember trying three different gas stations there, none had beer.

You have to have a liquor license to sell alcohol and those are REALLY expensive in Chicago. And the cost is not just the license. There's a bag of cash for the alderman involved.

Almost all grocery stores sell the full gamut up there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 22, 2023, 08:12:29 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 22, 2023, 08:06:25 AM

"science has nothing to do with truth" is an interesting comment.

"We" seem to rely on science a lot.

Get it right.


It's THE science.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 22, 2023, 08:39:45 AM

This really happened, after it took him so long to get out there? 

Oh man...

(https://i.imgur.com/RIq1QJ3.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 22, 2023, 08:46:31 AM

And imagine if this was your house? Could you still live in it? I'm not sure I could I'd want to, always knowing that everything around me got destroyed. 

(https://i.imgur.com/ofaE2FV.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 22, 2023, 08:53:03 AM

I could still live there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 22, 2023, 08:57:40 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 22, 2023, 08:39:45 AM

This really happened, after it took him so long to get out there?

Oh man...

(https://i.imgur.com/RIq1QJ3.png)

would expect nothing less from the guy considering 

a) he's old AF, clearly senile, and not all there mentally 

b) he's a corrupt politician and garbage human being and massive piece of shit- always has been, always will be

c) he's way too wrapped up and concerned with literally one of the most corrupt foreign governments on earth- an authoritarian shithole 3rd world eastern european country and his sugarbabby boyfriend Zelensky to actually- you know- put the country he was elected to lead first and you know- actually give a flying fk about his own country and the people in it....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 22, 2023, 10:05:32 AM

Home sales fall again in July, as supply drops to near quarter-century low

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 22, 2023, 10:11:38 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 22, 2023, 10:05:32 AM

Home sales fall again in July, as supply drops to near quarter-century low

Between inventory shortages and high mortgage rates, things are obviously going to slow down.

Even the builders are giving some pause these days.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 22, 2023, 10:15:55 AM

Construction is still going like crazy around me, mostly apartment high rises, but some office buildings (which I don't understand).  The only new single family homes are where they bought up an old one for the lot and demo'd.

We drive 37 miles north for my lessons every two weeks and it's solid suburbia out there, craziness and traffic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 22, 2023, 10:18:15 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 22, 2023, 10:05:32 AM

Home sales fall again in July, as supply drops to near quarter-century low

well it is kinda impossible for home sales to increase when literally nobody is selling their houses bc they are already have interest rates on their mortgages locked in well below the current rates and builders can't deliver new product on time. 

don't think it's a great thing- especially for people that want to buy homes because it's keeping prices high- but it also is not a thing of doom and gloom sky is falling oh no we're all gonna die. it just is what it is. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 22, 2023, 10:25:24 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 22, 2023, 10:15:55 AM

Construction is still going like crazy around me, mostly apartment high rises, but some office buildings (which I don't understand).  The only new single family homes are where they bought up an old one for the lot and demo'd.

We drive 37 miles north for my lessons every two weeks and it's solid suburbia out there, craziness and traffic.

it's a renters market right now and will probably stay that way for awhile, so kinda makes sense that apartments are booming everywhere. self-storage and industrial/warehouse is blowing up everywhere as well- those make sense as well too. people moving and relocating all the time- especially with COVID people fleeing shithole California and the rustbelt NY/NJ/MI/IL/OH/PA/MA for the southeast and southwest in even higher numbers than before- they need storage- and warehouse makes sense as more and more shopping goes to online year over year which is causing shopping malls and retail centers to die a slow death- those goods sold online need to be warehoused and shipped from somewhere right? 

office makes zero sense to me either- huge developers like Related are going all in on office high rises in downtown West Palm Beach- they are flying up right now and that just makes no sense to me- the work from home stuff isn't ever going completely away- there's already a ticking time bomb on existing office space- lot of commercial RE landlords in office space are going to take a freaking blood bath here soon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 22, 2023, 10:31:24 AM

The 10 Biggest Office Buildings Underway In Atlanta, Which Have Nearly All Their Space To Fill (bisnow.com) (https://www.bisnow.com/atlanta/news/construction-development/11-under-construction-office-buildings-in-atlanta-120054)

Atlanta’s love affair with growth may explain why developers, despite facing an office market flooded with the most empty space (https://www.bisnow.com/atlanta/news/office/office-market-sharply-deteriorates-in-atlanta-in-q2-119732) in its history, are under construction with more than 2.5M SF of prime office space in the city. But only 11% of that space is pre-leased, according to Avison Young data, compared to the pre-leased average of 48% (https://view.usa.colliers.com/?qs=67649332d3fa396fa125648d26fe212db06d714cdbdad48a3efc4dc6f997d0db7feaaaf0756debce16a32dad79436117afd6e668de7da7277b009490e672f4dc4dfadb5ec3e43e51) in the biggest U.S. office markets, according to Colliers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 22, 2023, 10:35:56 AM

Things are still moving over here on the Gulf Coast, albeit not at the high rates of the recent past. Most buyers are cash. Builders are still going at a pretty good clip too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 22, 2023, 10:41:20 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 22, 2023, 10:31:24 AM

The 10 Biggest Office Buildings Underway In Atlanta, Which Have Nearly All Their Space To Fill (bisnow.com) (https://www.bisnow.com/atlanta/news/construction-development/11-under-construction-office-buildings-in-atlanta-120054)

Atlanta’s love affair with growth may explain why developers, despite facing an office market flooded with the most empty space (https://www.bisnow.com/atlanta/news/office/office-market-sharply-deteriorates-in-atlanta-in-q2-119732) in its history, are under construction with more than 2.5M SF of prime office space in the city. But only 11% of that space is pre-leased, according to Avison Young data, compared to the pre-leased average of 48% (https://view.usa.colliers.com/?qs=67649332d3fa396fa125648d26fe212db06d714cdbdad48a3efc4dc6f997d0db7feaaaf0756debce16a32dad79436117afd6e668de7da7277b009490e672f4dc4dfadb5ec3e43e51) in the biggest U.S. office markets, according to Colliers.

sheesh. that's pretty bad....gonna be problem down the road.....

I know San Fransisco is worst in the nation right now for any major city with empty office space- over 30% completely empty- which makes sense when you think about it bc you had a lot of companies just say F this over-taxed, over-regulated, crime infested zero law and order enforced shithole- I'm out- while simultaneously having the most socially awkward assbackwards fkface shitlib twat dickwad supernerds- who are all literally so computer science smart that they are autistic and lack any common sense and are basically retarded- basically idiot savants- in oh only the entire world- there running all those giant tech monopolies- and they basically have all told their employees yeah y'all never have to come into the office for work ever again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 22, 2023, 11:07:21 AM

Crazy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 22, 2023, 11:17:45 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 22, 2023, 10:41:20 AM

sheesh. that's pretty bad....gonna be problem down the road.....

I know San Fransisco is worst in the nation right now for any major city with empty office space- over 30% completely empty- which makes sense when you think about it bc you had a lot of companies just say F this over-taxed, over-regulated, crime infested zero law and order enforced shithole- I'm out- while simultaneously having the most socially awkward assbackwards fkface shitlib twat dickwad supernerds- who are all literally so computer science smart that they are autistic and lack any common sense and are basically retarded- basically idiot savants- in oh only the entire world- there running all those giant tech monopolies- and they basically have all told their employees yeah y'all never have to come into the office for work ever again.

:D that's a wrap it!!!
Fooking Hellosi moves to FLA but bragged how great her policies are/were there,ya right 🤮

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 22, 2023, 11:19:03 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 22, 2023, 11:17:45 AM

:D that's a wrap it!!!
Fooking Hellosi moves to FLA but bragged how great her policies are/were there,ya right 🤮

Is that really true? I thought she denied that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 22, 2023, 11:20:48 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 22, 2023, 11:19:03 AM

Is that really true? I thought she denied that.

don't remember but I think that was a made up story.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 22, 2023, 11:27:40 AM

Pelosi's husband is of course majorly wealthy, they can "live" anywhere they want, as often as they want.  The really wealthy can easily avoid income taxes by not having any  taxable income.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 22, 2023, 11:29:21 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 22, 2023, 11:20:48 AM

don't remember but I think that was a made up story.

A made up story? perhaps but I don't believe anything decent about that muckracking yeast infected Wuhan Witch

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 22, 2023, 11:35:20 AM

Pelosi didn’t purchase $25 million mansion in Florida | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-481310246813)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 22, 2023, 11:41:33 AM

Portal Innovations Signs First Lease at Science Square Labs | What Now Atlanta (https://whatnowatlanta.com/portal-innovations-signs-first-lease-at-science-square-labs/?fbclid=IwAR3VbFK25l2Hl6XPE0IGwcnSrzV8Q55cT3Ga-56yIA_d7thvSip6sN_aBFo)

This is maybe 2 miles from me, kind of an interesting concept I think, "mixed use" next to Tech.  Tech has really expanded a lot over the years, it surprised me when I came back.  Student population has quadrupled and then some over the decades.  I guess that's good, they don't offer many garbage majors.

(https://i.imgur.com/RSwptth.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 22, 2023, 12:17:28 PM

We go here a lot by boat and rent a golf cart. It really is a gem of a place.

Boca Grande on Gasparilla Island Florida Is America's Best Small Beach Town of 2023 (travelandleisure.com) (https://www.travelandleisure.com/guide-to-boca-grande-gasparilla-island-florida-7629361)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 22, 2023, 12:25:23 PM

Atlanta is gentrifying fast. Can nightlife survive it? – WABE (https://www.wabe.org/atlanta-is-gentrifying-fast-can-nightlife-survive-it/?fbclid=IwAR0lfk6YawcvYH5H6KChKHNLrIfwXNZ7_aCKzdtC_36csQ0tPMKDdFoqIxU)

Long winded article noting how gentrification is replacing hip hop nightclubs, e.g., de white folks are comin'.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 22, 2023, 01:04:45 PM

in the hotel resort bar in Deadwood last night

last call at 9:30pm

of course you could still get a drink in the casino are that was attached

but, 9:30?!?!?

hey, worked well for this old guy when 6am arrived this morning

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 22, 2023, 01:06:45 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 22, 2023, 12:17:28 PM

We go here a lot by boat and rent a golf cart. It really is a gem of a place.

Boca Grande on Gasparilla Island Florida Is America's Best Small Beach Town of 2023 (travelandleisure.com) (https://www.travelandleisure.com/guide-to-boca-grande-gasparilla-island-florida-7629361)

how long before it's underwater and is relocated?
300-400 years?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 22, 2023, 01:13:13 PM

I'm going to be down that way Jan. 9 through 21 with a 3 day break in between.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 22, 2023, 01:20:45 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 22, 2023, 01:06:45 PM

how long before it's underwater and is relocated?
300-400 years?

Probably. It may be a reef someday. Who knows.

It won't be relocated though. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 22, 2023, 01:22:38 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 22, 2023, 01:13:13 PM

I'm going to be down that way Jan. 9 through 21 with a 3 day break in between.

Cell phone I have for you is no good. Mine hasn't changed since 1993 (except for the area code when they added 847).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 22, 2023, 01:27:48 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 22, 2023, 01:06:45 PM

how long before it's underwater and is relocated?
300-400 years?

yeah and in a billion or two years the sun will turn into a red giant expand, boil the entire planet and all life on earth will die.

who cares. we'll all be dead in 400 years. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 22, 2023, 01:29:12 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 22, 2023, 12:25:23 PM

Atlanta is gentrifying fast. Can nightlife survive it? – WABE (https://www.wabe.org/atlanta-is-gentrifying-fast-can-nightlife-survive-it/?fbclid=IwAR0lfk6YawcvYH5H6KChKHNLrIfwXNZ7_aCKzdtC_36csQ0tPMKDdFoqIxU)

Long winded article noting how gentrification is replacing hip hop nightclubs, e.g., de white folks are comin'.

bunch of dumbasses....gentrification isn't a problem unique to Atlanta....it's happened and is happening in every major growing city in the US.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 22, 2023, 01:33:56 PM

They didn't claim it to be unique to ATL of course, and it is happening widely.  Whether it's a problem is subject to debate.

Where I live, for example, has gentrified majorly and I think nearly all is for the better.  The area no doubt lost some "charm" I suppose, along with high crime and drug use and trash and run down buildings.  I certainly wouldn't have lived here circa 1990, my buddy did.

A big factor here has been the Belt Line, which has opened up large new areas for new development.  It amazes me what such a project can do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 22, 2023, 02:08:54 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 22, 2023, 01:33:56 PM

They didn't claim it to be unique to ATL of course, and it is happening widely.  Whether it's a problem is subject to debate.

Where I live, for example, has gentrified majorly and I think nearly all is for the better.  The area no doubt lost some "charm" I suppose, along with high crime and drug use and trash and run down buildings.  I certainly wouldn't have lived here circa 1990, my buddy did.

A big factor here has been the Belt Line, which has opened up large new areas for new development.  It amazes me what such a project can do.

I am 100% PRO gentrification....and for the reasons you stated which I highlighted lol. Cleaning up run down, crime infested, drug riddled shitholes can only ever be good thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 22, 2023, 02:51:22 PM

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/the-ohio-state-university/2023/08/140252/ohio-state-board-of-trustees-appoints-walter-ted-carter-jr-as-the-schools-17th-president

What can you tell us Fearless?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 22, 2023, 03:42:06 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 22, 2023, 02:51:22 PM

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/the-ohio-state-university/2023/08/140252/ohio-state-board-of-trustees-appoints-walter-ted-carter-jr-as-the-schools-17th-president

What can you tell us Fearless?

Thanks for the link, from that article:
"Carter, 64, has been Nebraska's president since Jan. 1, 2020. He previously served as the 62nd superintendent of the U.S. Naval Academy and the 54th president of the U.S. Naval War College. A 1981 graduate of the Naval Academy where he studied oceanography and lettered four times in ice hockey, Carter was a designated naval flight officer in 1982. Three years later, in 1985, Carter graduated from the Navy Strike Fighter Tactics Instructor program (TOPGUN), where he earned the call sign and nickname "Slapshot."

A native of Newport, Rhode Island, Carter commanded several squadrons in his naval career from 1981-2019 and achieved the rank of vice admiral. He accumulated 6,150 hours in the back seat of F-4, F-14 and F/A-18 aircraft and accompanied pilots in 2,016 carrier-arrested landings – a record among all active and retired U.S. Naval Aviation designators. Carter also flew on 125 combat missions in American military operations in Bosnia, Kuwait, Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan."

So, increased emphasis on hockey, maritime, and aerial pursuits?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 22, 2023, 03:43:05 PM

OSU rowing is gonna be a force.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 22, 2023, 06:03:59 PM

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-08-22/peloton-to-forge-deals-with-colleges-starting-with-university-of-michigan

Quote

Peloton Interactive Inc. is looking to college campuses as a new source of growth, starting with the University of Michigan.

The fitness company is kicking off a new college strategy that includes co-branding of apparel and bikes, discounts on its app for students, and social media campaigns that feature athletes. Michigan will be the first such partnership — a deal that includes replacing the current bikes at the school’s football stadium, known as the Big House, with Peloton equipment.

The agreement follows a push to sell more Peloton equipment and services to businesses. The company unveiled a business-to-business program last week, aiming to work with employers to offer Peloton as a perk to workers. It’s also looking to get more Peloton bikes into places like hotels, apartment buildings and local gyms.

After a rocky couple of years, the New York-based company is trying to rely less on the home-fitness buffs that initially made its stationary bikes a hot commodity. Peloton saw demand surge during the early days of the pandemic, only for sales to slump after people began returning to offices and gyms. The company is expected to report its sixth straight quarter of declining sales when it posts results on Wednesday.

Chief Executive Officer Barry McCarthy — a veteran of Netflix Inc. and Spotify Technology SA — took the helm last year and has been trying to turn Peloton around. His overhaul has included layoffs, management changes and offloading businesses.

Expanding into colleges brings an opportunity to sell both to students and well-heeled alumni. With the Michigan partnership — negotiated by the sports marketing firm Learfield — Peloton will support football, basketball and hockey, as well as Olympics-bound athletes. The company will provide fitness instruction and in-venue activations of Peloton services.

Peloton bikes in Michigan colors — blue and maize — will be visible on the sidelines of football games. And the company will be sponsoring the “Maize Rage” student cheering section at men’s and women’s basketball games. Students will be able to get Peloton’s App One for $6.99, rather than the usual $12.99.

The company also will launch social media campaigns featuring student-athletes — with an eye toward getting its brand in front of more Gen Z consumers.

“Gen Z is a very attractive audience for us,” said Greg Hybl, general manager of Peloton for Business. “Any opportunity to get in front of them while they’re in college — it is really appealing to us."

Don't know how successful this will be, but it's interesting...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 22, 2023, 06:48:14 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 22, 2023, 03:42:06 PM

So, increased emphasis on hockey, maritime, and aerial pursuits? 

Aerial pursuits - so more passing?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 22, 2023, 10:18:53 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 22, 2023, 02:51:22 PM

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/the-ohio-state-university/2023/08/140252/ohio-state-board-of-trustees-appoints-walter-ted-carter-jr-as-the-schools-17th-president

What can you tell us Fearless?

I can say his name wasn't in the news much

so, he didn't screw anything up academically 
or mess with the athletic department

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 22, 2023, 11:50:14 PM

he hates volleyball

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2023, 07:06:03 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/MKmrbg2.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2023, 08:28:03 AM

THOUGHT OF THE DAY:

"Long ago, Ben Graham taught me that 'Price is what you pay; value is what you get.' Whether we're talking about socks or stocks, I like buying quality merchandise when it is marked down." - Warren Buffett

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 23, 2023, 08:29:44 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 23, 2023, 08:28:03 AM

THOUGHT OF THE DAY:

"Long ago, Ben Graham taught me that 'Price is what you pay; value is what you get.' Whether we're talking about socks or stocks, I like buying quality merchandise when it is marked down." - Warren Buffett

Very wise. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 23, 2023, 08:44:31 AM

Why would anyone do this? Seems really dumb.

Florida county bans ‘Carolina Squat’ trucks on beaches (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/florida-county-bans-carolina-squat-trucks-on-beaches/ar-AA1fCTdE?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b9a49faa04ac407db6af10a1a33c2298&ei=47)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 23, 2023, 09:15:07 AM

Reggie Bush suing the NCAA for defamation. Go Reggie, go. Hope he nails those scumbag fktards to the cross in court. Can't wait til the NCAA finally dies the death it deserves, I'll be dancing on their grave laughing uncontrollably while simultaneously crying tears of joy. Fk the NCAA.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38242433/ex-usc-star-reggie-bush-file-defamation-lawsuit-ncaa

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 23, 2023, 09:19:25 AM

Just who funds those twits anyway?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2023, 10:33:31 AM

Reggie's lawyers?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2023, 10:44:38 AM

If the NCAA died, it would be replaced by something which is effectively the same thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 23, 2023, 10:48:38 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 23, 2023, 09:15:07 AM

Reggie Bush suing the NCAA for defamation. Go Reggie, go. Hope he nails those scumbag fktards to the cross in court. Can't wait til the NCAA finally dies the death it deserves, I'll be dancing on their grave laughing uncontrollably while simultaneously crying tears of joy. Fk the NCAA.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38242433/ex-usc-star-reggie-bush-file-defamation-lawsuit-ncaa

It all depends on if the statement by the NCAA were true or not

Everything Ive read indicates they are

If he can show they are false then he deserves to win

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 23, 2023, 10:49:39 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 23, 2023, 10:44:38 AM

If the NCAA died, it would be replaced by something which is effectively the same thing.

nah. 


B1G/SEC going to swallow up what's rest of the conferences and break away from the NCAA, which will effectively kill it.

This new B1G/SEC mega-entity will expand the playoff to 16 teams and have a commissioner and they'll have a salary cap and pay the players and probably even let recruits get a little piece of the action. 

Can't get here f'ng fast enough.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2023, 10:51:54 AM

The universities are the NCAA in effect, it's a collective "rules" body.  You need something, and it would be effectively the same thing.  Maybe the rules would be different.  And of course you also have all the other NCAA sports to consider.  Are you going to have two major basketball operations at the same time?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 23, 2023, 10:55:23 AM

No chance whatsoever Bush succeeds. He has to go beyond showing statements were false. As a public figure, he'll also have to clear the "actual malice" burden in a defamation case. 

My guess is that this lawsuit is a publicity lawsuit designed to bring more media attention to his case, more than actually expecting to win. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2023, 10:58:40 AM

Has he written a book recently?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on August 23, 2023, 11:39:47 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 23, 2023, 10:55:23 AM

No chance whatsoever Bush succeeds. He has to go beyond showing statements were false. As a public figure, he'll also have to clear the "actual malice" burden in a defamation case.

My guess is that this lawsuit is a publicity lawsuit designed to bring more media attention to his case, more than actually expecting to win.

Vince Young should have gotten that Heisman instead.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2023, 11:55:22 AM

most Hypesmans are given to the wrong players

does Reggie want his trophy back?

or is this just a money grab?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2023, 12:01:56 PM

I don't know about "most", maybe, but it's an opinion of course.  Should it be given to some linemen every few years?  Not agonna happen.

The criteria are so subjective it's hard to say much about it.  Just pick a QB or RB having a nice year on a great team and be done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 23, 2023, 12:12:40 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on August 23, 2023, 11:39:47 AM

Vince Young should have gotten that Heisman instead.

he 1000% would've had they awarded the Heisman after the bowl games.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2023, 12:43:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 23, 2023, 12:01:56 PM

I don't know about "most", maybe, but it's an opinion of course.  Should it be given to some linemen every few years?  Not agonna happen.

The criteria are so subjective it's hard to say much about it.  Just pick a QB or RB having a nice year on a great team and be done.

the criteria is the best player
not a QB having a nice season on a great team

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2023, 12:49:28 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 23, 2023, 12:43:59 PM

the criteria is the best player
not a QB having a nice season on a great team

"Most outstanding player", which obviously is qualitative and subjective.  And nearly every year it means an offensive back having a nice season on a great team.

Preferably a flashy season with highlights that look incredible and some impressive numbers.  Manziel.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2023, 12:51:33 PM

What is Reformer Pilates? What to Know About the Low-Impact Workout (today.com) (https://www.today.com/health/diet-fitness/reformer-pilates-rcna37066)

In other news, I had my last session this morning.  I really don't know what to think of it, I went 6 times.  And it's expensive ($80/hr).  I don't  get any sense of improvement in anything, maybe some stretching.  I can stretch on my own, maybe get some clues from the Interwebz.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2023, 01:20:00 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/nTK2EH6.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 23, 2023, 01:33:45 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 23, 2023, 12:51:33 PM

What is Reformer Pilates? What to Know About the Low-Impact Workout (today.com) (https://www.today.com/health/diet-fitness/reformer-pilates-rcna37066)

In other news, I had my last session this morning.  I really don't know what to think of it, I went 6 times.  And it's expensive ($80/hr).  I don't  get any sense of improvement in anything, maybe some stretching.  I can stretch on my own, maybe get some clues from the Interwebz.

Honestly, a good way to have instructor-led exercise is Peloton. You don't need a bike or treadmill. The app (https://www.onepeloton.com/app) is $12.99/mo and would include all strength (which includes Pilates), stretching, and other non-equipment (i.e. no bike/tread/rower) classes. The full version which includes equipment-based cardio is $24/mo, which could be used on third-party bikes/treadmills etc if you have a gym in your building. And some health insurance companies will pay some/all towards it. You can use the app on a phone or tablet, although I have the Peloton app installed on my Roku so I can use the big screen for it. 

Honestly I *hated* going to the gym but I look forward to doing these workouts. A lot of it is that I can do it at home, whenever it fits into my day. 

And being instructor-led, there's no guessing about what to do. Pick a class and you're good to go. 

If you're interested in giving it a shot, let me know. The standard trial period with the app is 30 days, but I can send a referral code extending that to 60 days. (Note: there is no financial incentive for me on that--they have a financial incentive for referrals if people buy equipment, but not for the app. So this isn't motivated by anything benefiting me.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 23, 2023, 02:29:14 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 23, 2023, 12:43:59 PM

the criteria is the best player
not a QB having a nice season on a great team

Jonathan Taylor didn't even get an invite to NYC. 2 unanimous AA, two Doak Walker awards.

I'm NOT saying there weren't other deserving players invited. Not that at all.

(https://i.imgur.com/oyw4zN0.png)

Look at those numbers. Not even an invite. Tells me that a tailback will never win it again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 23, 2023, 02:40:11 PM

Another accident... Yep.

(https://i.imgur.com/deYXqoB.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2023, 02:43:48 PM

well, the last non-QB was only 2020 (Covid) DeVonta Smith Alabama - WR

the last RB was 2015 Derrick Henry Alabama

the last non-Bama RB was our buddy Reggie Bush in 2005

before that it was your buddy Ron Dayne 1999

I guess I feel it could still happen, but it's not likely 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2023, 02:47:08 PM

I think more teams are going to RB by committee, so no one guy gets enough carries any more, usually.  Maybe if a true superstar appears that could change.  Flashy, ya gotta be flashy.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 23, 2023, 02:50:50 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 23, 2023, 02:29:14 PM

Jonathan Taylor didn't even get an invite to NYC. 2 unanimous AA, two Doak Walker awards.

I'm NOT saying there weren't other deserving players invited. Not that at all.

(https://i.imgur.com/oyw4zN0.png)

Look at those numbers. Not even an invite. Tells me that a tailback will never win it again.

Not so sure it's just because he was a tailback. I think it was probably that Wisconsin went (pre-bowl game) 7-5 in 2018 and 10-3 in 2019. 

They don't give Heisman Trophies to players that aren't on one of the best teams, especially when that team isn't a helmet. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2023, 02:57:31 PM

Paul Hornung

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 23, 2023, 03:21:53 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 23, 2023, 02:29:14 PM

Jonathan Taylor didn't even get an invite to NYC. 2 unanimous AA, two Doak Walker awards.

I'm NOT saying there weren't other deserving players invited. Not that at all.
[img width=274.381 height=238]https://i.imgur.com/oyw4zN0.png[/img]
Look at those numbers. Not even an invite. Tells me that a tailback will never win it again.

Beta mentioned the need to be on a team in the NC hunt and that is a factor but it goes beyond that and this applies to Helmets too.

Last year CJ Stroud completed 2/3 of his passes for ~4,000 yards and had a TD/INT ratio of 41/6. Those are great numbers and he'd have won the Heisman but for two things:

• Ohio State lost to Michigan, and
• His stat line against Michigan was meh: 31/48, 350 yards, 2TD, 2INT.

He could have won the Heismann with mediocre numbers against Michigan if Ohio State won anyway or he could have won with a loss to Michigan if he had great numbers and Ohio State lost a shootout but he couldn't win it with mediocre numbers in a loss on his biggest stage of the season.

In 2017 Wisconsin was in the NC hunt at 12-0 and #4 heading into the B1GCG but they lost to Ohio State and Taylor's stat line was 15 carries for 41 yards (2.7 avg, 7 long) with no TD.

In 2018 as @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) mentioned the Badgers went 7-5 so Taylor never really had a big stage opportunity.

In 2019 the Badgers played two big stage games. The first was a 38-7 road loss as #13 to #3 Ohio State. In that game Taylor had 20 carries for 52 yards (2.6 avg, 14 long) with no TD.

The second was a 34-21 loss to tOSU in the B1GCG. In this game Taylor's stat line was solid, 20 carries for 148 yards (7.4 avg, 45 long) and a TD BUT, his team still lost.

To win the Heisman what you need is:

• To be on a team good enough to get you into "Big Stage" games, and
• Either to put up video game numbers in a loss on the big stage or to put up at least decent numbers in a win on the big stage.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2023, 03:39:15 PM

we all know this

most of us think it's not right

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 23, 2023, 04:02:33 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 23, 2023, 03:39:15 PM

we all know this

most of us think it's not right

I get it and I partially agree but to play devil's advocate:

If you are putting up great numbers on a crappy team, who cares? What did you actually accomplish?

This is an old debate. When I was in school Iowa State had a RB named Troy Davis who put up gaudy #'s. He had back-to-back 2,000 yard rushing seasons in 1995 and 1996 but in those two seasons the Cyclones finished dead last in the old Big8 then dead last in the B12-N. 

The argument is that if ISU had not had Troy Davis they wouldn't have been appreciably worse because they were already terrible so who cares? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2023, 04:17:24 PM

to do what Troy did on those crap teams is much more impressive to me than what Eddie did in 95 or Danny Wuerffel in 96 on great teams

Was Eddie the reason tOSU was that good in 95?
In Spurrier's system on the 96 team, could another QB put up those numbers?

the bigger question......... would Eddie have run for 2,000 yards for ISU in 95?
I'm not so sure

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 23, 2023, 04:33:15 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 23, 2023, 04:17:24 PM

to do what Troy did on those crap teams is much more impressive to me than what Eddie did in 95 or Danny Wuerffel in 96 on great teams

Was Eddie the reason tOSU was that good in 95?
In Spurrier's system on the 96 team, could another QB put up those numbers?

the bigger question......... would Eddie have run for 2,000 yards for ISU in 95?
I'm not so sure

I would argue that George and Wuerffel were responsible for more wins over replacement than Troy Davis.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 23, 2023, 04:51:47 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 23, 2023, 04:33:15 PM

I would argue that George and Wuerffel were responsible for more wins over replacement than Troy Davis.

I always find this interesting... How so? 

In 1995 with Eddie George, OSU went 11-2. In 1996 w/o George, they went 11-1, scoring 1.4 more ppg, while playing musical chairs at QB it looks like from the stats. Admittedly, they were better on defense in 1996. But it seemed like they were just fine w/o George. 

Wuerffel I can get if I look at the stats. The 1997 team dramatically dropped scoring per game, went from 8-0 in the SEC to 6-2, and the production from the QB position was DRAMATICALLY worse. 

 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2023, 04:52:35 PM

and I might argue the other way with Eddie and Troy

1994 and 1995 Eddie was leading rusher for the Buckeyes - 20-6 record

1993 10-1-1 
1996 11-1
____________________
95 & 96 the Cyclones were 5-17

1994 0-10-1
1996 1-10

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 23, 2023, 05:01:25 PM

Did Troy have Orlando Pace blocking for him?

Just checking.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 23, 2023, 05:18:38 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 23, 2023, 05:01:25 PM

Did Troy have Orlando Pace blocking for him?

Just checking.

One of the biggest NFL decision mistakes ever was the RB who followed George. 

Pace was a three-year player from 1994-1996.  I don't know if this is true but I read once that in three years starting on the tOSU O-line, Orlando Pace Never gave up a sack.  It might be true, he was that good. 

So funny little Eddie George story.  This was pre NIL of course so college football players weren't supposed to be getting paid at all and even if they were getting cash it had to be kept to a minimal level so as to not be too obvious.  Anyway, Eddie's last year at tOSU was 1995 when he won the heismann.  That year during the SuperBowl Eddie appeared in an AD for some painkiller.  It was a cute ad.  It had a bunch of NFL guys and Eddie and basically was saying "you'll need this once you get here, rookie". 

The day after the Super Bowl I was walking down High Street headed for a class when a HUMONGOUS and BRAND NEW Land Rover approached on one of the side streets.  Eddie George was driving. 

Back to the story:
Pretty much the entire tOSU O-line from 1995 returned for 1996 and Ohio State's leading rusher was a guy named Pepe Pearson who carried 286 times for 1,373 yards (4.8 avg).  The thing is that any of us could probably have averaged at least 3 yards because following Orlando Pace isn't all that complicated.  The 1996 tOSU O-line was THAT good. 

Pearson opted NOT to go to the NFL after the 1996 season and probably still regrets it.  His 1997 season was a dropoff.  He didn't get worse but he lost his starting QB and most of his line.  

Now to get to @FearlessF (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10) 's point, in 1995 Eddie rushed 303 times for 1,826 yards (6.0 avg) so I think that was a LOT better than Pearson's 4.8 avg a year later.  It is an even bigger difference when you consider that Pearson's O-line was a year older and BETTER than the line that blocked for George in 1995. Eddie's extra 1.2 yards per carry is a BIG difference. 

The extra ppg in 1996, to address @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) 's point, were mostly because tOSU had a LOT more short fields due to the 1996 defense being stifling.  The passing and rushing stats were around the same or worse. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2023, 05:31:01 PM

gee, I wonder how the guy that followed Troy Davis did in 1997?

maybe not 2,000 yards?
just a guess

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2023, 05:54:06 PM

I've heard it said that coaches don't do their polls.  They don't have time.  Some GA does it and they glance at it and nod.

I wonder if that is somewhat true with the Heisman voters as well, probably not as true, if true at all.  They watch Sportscenter and maybe look at some stats.  Then it comes down to four "finalists" chosen somehow and maybe they do a bit of dilligence, but I'd guess nowhere near the analytical detail youse guys are doing here (which is interesting to me).

Last year the Dawgs had 3-4 guys I'd rank as more "outstanding" than SBIV.  But he was the QB on a good team and made some plays that probably surprised some folks.  So, he got the invite.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 23, 2023, 07:18:36 PM

B12 commissioner pulling no punches about how he feels about OU/TX....not a great look

https://twitter.com/josephcook89/status/1694443421786591268?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 23, 2023, 07:30:04 PM

Man, I know the narrative stuff went to VY, but damn did Reggie have a hell of a season that year. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 23, 2023, 07:37:24 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 23, 2023, 07:18:36 PM

B12 commissioner pulling no punches about how he feels about OU/TX....not a great look

https://twitter.com/josephcook89/status/1694443421786591268?s=20

Yeah, and this is the guy who the head of B12 officiating reports to.  I'm sure all the games are going to be called clean and fair.

If this stuff is being said publicly, then what's being said behind closed doors?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 23, 2023, 07:43:39 PM

Heisman voters seem to be among the worst ranking bodies in existence, but only because of what the Heisman proports to reward.
"The most outstanding player"
If that was true, half the Heismans would have been given to linemen and LBs.  With 80-something awarded, there should be like 12 Charles Woodsons.  
All they have to do is change the description.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 23, 2023, 07:56:31 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 23, 2023, 07:30:04 PM

Man, I know the narrative stuff went to VY, but damn did Reggie have a hell of a season that year.

they both had amazing seasons. VY threw for over 3,000 yards in an era where that was kind of a big deal. He also ran for over 1,000 yards. Give me the generational QB over the generational RB everyday of the week and twice on Saturdays.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 23, 2023, 08:02:14 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 23, 2023, 07:43:39 PM

Heisman voters seem to be among the worst ranking bodies in existence, but only because of what the Heisman proports to reward.
"The most outstanding player"
If that was true, half the Heismans would have been given to linemen and LBs.  With 80-something awarded, there should be like 12 Charles Woodsons. 
All they have to do is change the description. 

I agree 100%. There should have been multiple defensive players to have won it. Ndamukong Suh should've won it in 2009. Mark Ingram was probably the weakest winner I can recall in recent memory. 

Woodson only got the award because he moonlighted sparringly on offense and special teams- and every time he happened to moonlight it was in big games and he made big plays with the ball in his hands. He would've deserved it just as a CB alone- he was that insanely good- but he would've never gotten a whiff let alone won it had he not gotten that run on O/STs and scored TD's in big games.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 23, 2023, 08:04:14 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 23, 2023, 07:37:24 PM

Yeah, and this is the guy who the head of B12 officiating reports to.  I'm sure all the games are going to be called clean and fair.

If this stuff is being said publicly, then what's being said behind closed doors?

yeah, it's not a great look. low class and honestly can't believe a commissioner of a major sports league actually said that publicly. and I can't blame OU/TX for wanting to get off that sinking ship for greener pastures in the SEC...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 23, 2023, 08:14:57 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 23, 2023, 07:30:04 PM

Man, I know the narrative stuff went to VY, but damn did Reggie have a hell of a season that year.

The narrative stuff went to VY after the RB.  Bush's season was superior.
8.7 ypc on 200 carries is nuts.
.
Players like Troy Davis get the shaft.  People don't seem to understand that he had his seasons while not facing Iowa State's horrible defense, while everyone else in his conference did.  That Coleman kid at IU....same thing.  
.
Herschel Walker has mostly been considered the top RB of all time because no one had ever had the volume and production he did in just 3 seasons....until Jonathan Taylor.  As noted in a previous post, Taylor suffered from underwhelming performances in his biggest games.
We have the game logs for Walker, but he didn't have a "big game" in 1980 until the Sugar Bowl.  UGA played a pretty shit schedule.  But vs a great ND rush D, he went for 150 yards and 2 TDs despite a separated shoulder on the 2nd play.  Much like Vince Young, Walker would have probably won the Heisman if it was held post-bowl, even as a true FR.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 23, 2023, 08:16:18 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 23, 2023, 07:56:31 PM

they both had amazing seasons. VY threw for over 3,000 yards in an era where that was kind of a big deal. He also ran for over 1,000 yards. Give me the generational QB over the generational RB everyday of the week and twice on Saturdays.

Young scored 38 total TDs.
Just 2 years later, Tebow won it with 55 TDs. 
.
Generational?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 23, 2023, 08:19:06 PM

The fact that Woodson echoed Desmond Howard with a punt return TD vs OSU is one of those "you just have to shrug and give it to him" things. 

I just re-watched it, and Keith Jackson and Greise are lauding the punter leading up to the return, lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 23, 2023, 08:23:51 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 23, 2023, 05:31:01 PM

gee, I wonder how the guy that followed Troy Davis did in 1997?

maybe not 2,000 yards?
just a guess

Troy's brother, Darren Davis, rushed for 1,005 yards and 5 TDs.  4.7 ypc.
He went on to have 2 more 1000 yard seasons on a ton of carries.
So technically, he had more 1000 yard seasons than Troy did, lol (but 600 fewer yards overall).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 23, 2023, 08:24:33 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 23, 2023, 08:16:18 PM

Young scored 38 total TDs.
Just 2 years later, Tebow won it with 55 TDs. 
.
Generational?

Tim Tebow wears Vince Young underoos.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 23, 2023, 08:28:53 PM

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/JDbx0yICUNdPW/200w.gif?cid=790b761112g7fz6fu5g9xdfkxedia66nkgbgib19pfkuo233&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 23, 2023, 08:32:49 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 23, 2023, 08:16:18 PM

Young scored 38 total TDs.
Just 2 years later, Tebow won it with 55 TDs. 
.
Generational?

stats don't tell the entire story. for one Florida had a lot more talent at the skill positions around Tebow than VY had around him at Texas. Tebow also had a better system/coaches scheming things up with Urban Meyer- whose offense was revolutionary at that time. VY was far more talented. Had a much better arm and was far more explosive as a runner.

Look Tebow was a great college player, not taking anything away from him, but Tebow wasn't even the best player on his own offense. Percy Harvin was. I was at the Mich-UF bowl game. I was at the OU-UF national title game. I saw Tebow throw live. Tebow was NOT a good passer- I'll just leave it at that and be kind. Anybody with a set of eye balls could see he'd never be an NFL QB. 

Percy Harvin to this day might be the fastest human being and biggest freak show and with the football in his hands that I've ever seen in person at a college football game. The speed he moved at was not normal. Complete freak show. How many of Tebow's rush TD's were from near the goal-line when he became basically a glorified fullback and punched it in? How many of his pass TD's were dumps, screens, or swings he threw behind the LOS or 3 yards in the air and Percy Harvin took to the house?

VY had WAY more pop in his arm to push the ball downfield and he was WAY more explosive and dangerous as a runner with the football in his hands. Plus dude was 6'5/6'6 and could RUN. Freak show. Generational talent. Dude made the Pro Bowl as a rookie and was the NFL rookie of the year. Damn shame he had to have a complete asshole failure of a head coach perennial loser .500 retread offensively retarded/challenged Jeff Fisher as his NFL coach and ruin what should've been an outstanding NFL career.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 23, 2023, 08:43:31 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 23, 2023, 08:32:49 PM

Percy Harvin to this day might be the fastest human being and biggest freak show and with the football in his hands that I've ever seen in person at a college football game. 

Ted Ginn would disagree until his teamates broke his leg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 23, 2023, 08:45:00 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 23, 2023, 08:19:06 PM

The fact that Woodson echoed Desmond Howard with a punt return TD vs OSU is one of those "you just have to shrug and give it to him" things.

I just re-watched it, and Keith Jackson and Greise are lauding the punter leading up to the return, lol.

he didn't just score a punt return TD on special teams, he also took points off the board from OSU with an interception in the end zone when OSU was near the goal line, and he also set up Michigan's only TD on offense of the day when he caught a pass at WR for 40 yards but got tripped up near Michigan's end-zone on a TD saving shoe string tackle by Antoine Winfield- and then A-Train punched in the TD for Michigan right after.

Michigan won 20-14 and Woodson almost single-handedly beat Ohio State. He was incredible that game. What a fkn football player that guy was. 1st ballot HOF type player in college & pros.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 23, 2023, 08:46:45 PM

My favorite 2 parts when people try to say _____ was better than Tebow:
1 - player X's team sucked around him.  I guess Jamaal Charles sucked.  Ramonce Taylor sucked that year.
2 - somehow, Urban Meyer's system was SO good, a glorified FB wound up with the 2nd-best career passer rating EVER
.
Wow, I guess Meyer was underpaid.
Young scored 38 TDs on a team that averaged 50 ppg.  Hmm...that's weird.  And if running for TDs near the goalline was so easy, why didn't Young do it?

Harvin was really great.  But he didn't play vs Bama in 08.  Timmy beat #1 Alabama without him.  And he wasn't around in 09, when Florida went 13-1 AGAIN.  

Vince Young gets put on a pedestal because of one game vs USC.  
People throw the stats out when they don't support their opinion.  Young kind of sucked his soph year.  But let's sweep that under the rug.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 23, 2023, 08:47:28 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 23, 2023, 08:43:31 PM

Ted Ginn would disagree until his teamates broke his leg

oh he's way up there too. gimme Harvin overall though. Percy was more versatile and much more physical and built. dude was jacked. a ball of muscle. strong af. could play RB as well as WR/KR/PR. Ginn was more lanky/slender, couldn't play RB.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 23, 2023, 10:33:14 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 23, 2023, 08:45:00 PM

he didn't just score a punt return TD on special teams, he also took points off the board from OSU with an interception in the end zone when OSU was near the goal line, and he also set up Michigan's only TD on offense of the day when he caught a pass at WR for 40 yards but got tripped up near Michigan's end-zone on a TD saving shoe string tackle by Antoine Winfield- and then A-Train punched in the TD for Michigan right after.

Michigan won 20-14 and Woodson almost single-handedly beat Ohio State. He was incredible that game. What a fkn football player that guy was. 1st ballot HOF type player in college & pros.

Woodson was incredible in that game.  He was the difference.  Almost perfect- but he did get burned for a long TD by Germaine to Boston.

I remember gasping when Michigan threw a sure pick 6 deep in their own territory very late in the 4th quarter.  Hit Katzenmoyer right in the numbers- and he dropped it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2023, 10:58:44 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 23, 2023, 08:23:51 PM

Troy's brother, Darren Davis, rushed for 1,005 yards and 5 TDs.  4.7 ypc.
He went on to have 2 more 1000 yard seasons on a ton of carries.
So technically, he had more 1000 yard seasons than Troy did, lol (but 600 fewer yards overall).

so, I guessed right

half the yards and half the TDs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2023, 11:01:19 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 23, 2023, 07:18:36 PM

B12 commissioner pulling no punches about how he feels about OU/TX....not a great look

well, at least the commish back when Nebraska and Mizzuo and Ralphie left pulled some punches "publicly"
it wasn't a horrible look, unless you watched the games

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 24, 2023, 12:32:42 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 23, 2023, 07:56:31 PM

they both had amazing seasons. VY threw for over 3,000 yards in an era where that was kind of a big deal. He also ran for over 1,000 yards. Give me the generational QB over the generational RB everyday of the week and twice on Saturdays.

That’s true. But when they vote for Heismans, he was a 2,769-yard passer and 850 yard rusher. 

Now posting an average day of 230 passing yards and an 70.8 rushing yards a game ain’t nothing to shake a stick at. 

Neither is 8.9 per carry, nor 170 yards from scrimmage. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2023, 07:43:16 AM

Were I this Russian Wagner dude, I would think up crashing my own plane with my name on the passenger list to "disappear" quietly somewhere in Africa maybe with $$$.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2023, 08:14:02 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/z2aWYQZ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 08:37:55 AM

South Africa on the beach

https://www.timbuktutravel.com/blog/best-beaches-in-south-africa (https://www.timbuktutravel.com/blog/best-beaches-in-south-africa)

(https://timbuktutravel.imgix.net/2017/08/fainepearl_16_8_2017_9_46_15_296_1440x960.jpg?auto=compress%2Cformat&fit=scale&h=600&ixlib=php-1.1.0&q=50&w=900&wpsize=large)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 09:11:58 AM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/369305484_860437278997294_2713005157180737802_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=KiJv9n4EIUUAX-9PnbK&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCp-Hu84OKAW7TUp3Sy3YgUDkoDAYPJ8qvSPURf0lWixw&oe=64ED3398)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2023, 09:17:20 AM

Eastern Carolina sauce has no tomato in it.

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.95)]Ingredients[/color]

• [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.95)]1 cup white vinegar
  
  [/color]
• [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.95)]1 cup cider vinegar
  
  [/color]
• [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.95)]1 tablespoon brown sugar
  
  [/color]
• [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.95)]1 tablespoon cayenne pepper
  
  [/color]
• [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.95)]1 tablespoon hot pepper sauce (e.g. Tabasco™), or to taste
  
  [/color]
• [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.95)]1 teaspoon salt
  
  [/color]
• [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.95)]1 teaspoon ground black pepper[/color]

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 09:31:30 AM

some of it is inaccurate but interesting

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 24, 2023, 09:34:18 AM

I've never heard of Kentucky bbq featuring lamb. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2023, 09:37:22 AM

Me either.

And that EC sauce recipe posted above has too much vinegar - about twice what it should be.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 09:38:36 AM

probably thoroughbred disguised as lamb

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on August 24, 2023, 09:48:12 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 24, 2023, 09:34:18 AM

I've never heard of Kentucky bbq featuring lamb.

I've never heard of American BBQ that is lamb based. Halal cooking uses lamb and goat as their base, but no one is calling that BBQ.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2023, 09:56:20 AM

Mutton? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 09:58:37 AM

https://youtu.be/gqeM34zSQ4c

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 10:01:53 AM

Next, you need to source your lamb.  Get in touch with a local farmer, butcher shop, or slaughterhouse.  You won’t be able to pick this up at the supermarket.  If you are in the Louisville, Kentucky area, I recommend Freedom Run Farm.  They did not sponsor this post; I happen to like their lamb.  My preference is an 80-100 pound lamb.  I can maneuver this size around myself if I can’t find any help.

    Before we prep, let’s get the fire going.  I like cooking whole lamb bbq at 275-300 degrees.

https://ilovemeat.com/whole-lamb-bbq/#:~:text=We%20will%20cook%20at%20275,I%20start%20checking%20the%20lamb. (https://ilovemeat.com/whole-lamb-bbq/#:~:text=We will cook at 275,I start checking the lamb.)

https://youtu.be/LBuIr02___U

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 24, 2023, 10:23:30 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2023, 09:56:20 AM

Mutton?

This site (https://www.bbqhub.net/features/Kentuckys-Regional-Barbecue-Styles-and-Sauces) suggests mutton... 

I would think you'd avoid lamb. Lamb is tender. And expensive. Seems like you'd be wasting it. 

Adult sheep with tougher meat would tend to lend itself to BBQ, no?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 10:26:39 AM

https://youtu.be/fHdIhMiefBY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 24, 2023, 10:33:56 AM

Goat BBQ is common in Mexico and South Texas, and it's delicious.

Cabrito.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2023, 10:36:27 AM

I've had that and yes, it's fantastic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 24, 2023, 10:37:09 AM

And I guess it's time to post this classic again, this still cracks me up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ubTQfr_tyY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on August 24, 2023, 10:52:14 AM

In North Dakota, a barbecue is a sloppy joe, preferrably as bland as possible.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2023, 10:55:42 AM

What about East Dakota?

:57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 10:57:54 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 24, 2023, 10:33:56 AM

Goat BBQ is common in Mexico and South Texas, and it's delicious.

Cabrito.

common in some areas here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on August 24, 2023, 10:59:35 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2023, 10:55:42 AM

What about East Dakota?

:57:

There are large swatches of western Minnesota, mostly up in the Red River country, that look just like North Dakota. And their definition of a barbecue, sadly, is the same.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 24, 2023, 11:07:12 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on August 24, 2023, 10:52:14 AM

In North Dakota, a barbecue is a sloppy joe, preferrably as bland as possible.

When my kids were younger, one night I decided to make them Tater Tot Hotdish (https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/food-network-kitchen/hotdish-tater-tot-casserole-7518131). Despite it being a midwestern dish, I'd never had it (I guess it wasn't well known in Chicago), but even the oldest was <10 years old at the time, so I thought... "It's bland and boring, but it's got tater tots, and they're kids, so it should be a hit!"

Nope. Epic fail. Never tried again. 

I've considered making it again with leftover smoked pulled pork, BBQ sauce instead of cream of mushroom, some cheddar cheese in there, etc... I think I could do it justice and make something decent. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 11:10:12 AM

just make sure the tots are on top and you crank up the temp to brown them up and make em crunchy on top

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 24, 2023, 11:33:49 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 24, 2023, 11:07:12 AM

When my kids were younger, one night I decided to make them Tater Tot Hotdish (https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/food-network-kitchen/hotdish-tater-tot-casserole-7518131). Despite it being a midwestern dish, I'd never had it (I guess it wasn't well known in Chicago), but even the oldest was <10 years old at the time, so I thought... "It's bland and boring, but it's got tater tots, and they're kids, so it should be a hit!"

Nope. Epic fail. Never tried again.

I've considered making it again with leftover smoked pulled pork, BBQ sauce instead of cream of mushroom, some cheddar cheese in there, etc... I think I could do it justice and make something decent.

Sounds like the children need totchos.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 24, 2023, 12:24:15 PM

I make a BBQ tater tot poutine from time to time.  Leftover smoked brisket or pulled pork, tater tots, a very small amount of BBQ sauce, and Longhorn cheddar cheese.

(Yes, I realize that this dish indeed has not even one of the required elements of true poutine.  If someone wants to vocabulary-shame me, I will accept my lumps).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 12:31:39 PM

gotta have gravy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 24, 2023, 12:32:41 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 12:31:39 PM

gotta have gravy

The cheese and BBQ sauce combine into a gravy like substance.

Ish.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2023, 12:38:32 PM

Not poutine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 24, 2023, 12:42:48 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2023, 12:38:32 PM

Not poutine.

Of course not.  It's BBQ tater tot poutine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 24, 2023, 12:42:55 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 24, 2023, 12:24:15 PM

I make a BBQ tater tot poutine from time to time.  Leftover smoked brisket or pulled pork, tater tots, a very small amount of BBQ sauce, and Longhorn cheddar cheese.

(Yes, I realize that this dish indeed has not even one of the required elements of true poutine.  If someone wants to vocabulary-shame me, I will accept my lumps).

Quote from: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 12:31:39 PM

gotta have gravy

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2023, 12:38:32 PM

Not poutine.

But is it a sandwich?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 24, 2023, 12:44:22 PM

I'd say it's closer to poutine than it is to a sandwich.

Now, if you took some of that mess and threw it between two pieces of bread...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: eltigrerex on August 24, 2023, 12:46:18 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 10, 2023, 11:50:43 AM

@eltigrerex (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1580) ? Never heard of the guy.

Although I had a dream that I once shared some Live Oak beer with him.

Funny, I had the same dream . . . *cheers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 24, 2023, 12:53:15 PM

Quote from: eltigrerex on August 24, 2023, 12:46:18 PM

Funny, I had the same dream . . . *cheers

Hello old friend.



Hey, I have to tell you that I still have the Auburn bottle koozie you gave me, and I bust it out any time I'm watching an SEC game.  I will say that it mildly irritates my i s c & a aggie wife when I'm using it whilst watching the TAMU-Auburn game... :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2023, 01:24:26 PM

Howdy!!

I still have the Auburn mug and the Frank Thomas bobblehead!!

I remember that Live Oak dream too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2023, 01:38:43 PM

The Nook Restaurant In Atlanta Has A Massive Food Challenge You Can Try To Conquer - Narcity (https://www.narcity.com/atlanta/the-nook-restaurant-in-atlanta-has-a-massive-food-challenge-you-can-try-to-conquer#:~:text=The Nook on Piedmont Park,and cheese and cajun Tatchos.)

(https://i.imgur.com/BZzU4tp.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2023, 01:45:07 PM

I think I saw that place on TV once. Maybe a good challenge show. We don't normally like watching those. It's kinda gross really.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2023, 01:52:37 PM

The Nook actually is pretty good, it's better bar food than most places have.  Their totchos are tasty, but filling, used to be $10 per, and I could eat maybe half.  Not a diet food at all.  They have 5-6 types.

During COVID, I'd get lunch from them for take out to help them survive.  Now they are packed nearly all the time.

They usually have a Michigan State flag flying outside.  I chatted with the owner, she said she did go there, and to UGA for her MBA.  She has the same first name as my wife.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2023, 02:16:41 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/hwCvySG.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2023, 02:28:11 PM

Buffalo looks good to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 24, 2023, 02:36:07 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 23, 2023, 08:45:00 PM

Michigan won 20-14 and Woodson almost single-handedly beat Ohio State. He was incredible that game. What a fkn football player that guy was. 1st ballot HOF type player in college & pros.

While woodson was good it can be said Jackson singal handedly thru two pix right into the defenders chest causing them at least 10-14 points off the board the one pick was on a 1st and goal. Next set of down he thru a pix 6 With joe Germaine on the bench had statistally the highest QB rating in the BIG but he was splitting time for God knows what reason that John Stupor thought wise

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: eltigrerex on August 24, 2023, 02:41:35 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 24, 2023, 12:53:15 PM

Hello old friend.



Hey, I have to tell you that I still have the Auburn bottle koozie you gave me, and I bust it out any time I'm watching an SEC game.  I will say that it mildly irritates my i s c & a aggie wife when I'm using it whilst watching the TAMU-Auburn game... :)

That's fantastic and makes me quite pleased to hear :72: I still have all the collectibles I was gifted in Austin, myself. Good times, man. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2023, 02:43:17 PM

I sat with Gatorama in Texas at the tailgate and watched UGA whip UF while we dog sat Pearl, the Bulldawg.  I needed that trip at that time.

Really impressed with that TG.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: eltigrerex on August 24, 2023, 02:43:59 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2023, 01:24:26 PM

Howdy!!

I still have the Auburn mug and the Frank Thomas bobblehead!!

I remember that Live Oak dream too.

AUsome! ;) I actually fished out an old Bucky's Big Red Tailgate cup last week! Still can't find my infamous lost shirt, though... :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2023, 02:45:50 PM

I don't know that I've laughed that hard since that night. Holy crap that was funny.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: eltigrerex on August 24, 2023, 02:53:48 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2023, 02:45:50 PM

I don't know that I've laughed that hard since that night. Holy crap that was funny.

And FAST, too! LOL Every time I hear someone telling their best football story, I patiently wait until they're finished -- and then tell that one. Over the years, it's ended up getting more mileage than I did touring the campus that night. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: eltigrerex on August 24, 2023, 02:54:16 PM

Damn, I miss yous guys. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2023, 02:58:09 PM

That was an early morning in Madison, and we had a long drive to get him to the airport in time.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: eltigrerex on August 24, 2023, 03:13:21 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 24, 2023, 02:58:09 PM

That was an early morning in Madison, and we had a long drive to get him to the airport in time. 

Very early! But, you got me there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2023, 04:37:30 PM

What $7K+ (per month) apartments look like at Ponce City Market | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/ponce-city-market-7000-month-apartments-look-like)

I am all astonishment.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2023, 04:38:59 PM

Quote from: eltigrerex on August 24, 2023, 02:54:16 PM

Damn, I miss yous guys.

You don't have to!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 04:39:14 PM

hell, I could own the golf course and sleep in the clubhouse for that kinda change

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: eltigrerex on August 24, 2023, 05:32:44 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2023, 04:38:59 PM

You don't have to!

Fair enough... when's the next meeting? Aren't you down thisaway now, anyhow?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 24, 2023, 05:35:53 PM

I'm in Punta Gorda, FL. Burnt Store Marina.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 05:52:00 PM

in other news.......... when's the next meeting?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 24, 2023, 06:34:03 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/TcWc8RD.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 06:35:09 PM

well, there was a pandemic and very little driving with the lockdowns and no commutes to and from work

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 06:38:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 24, 2023, 01:38:43 PM

The Nook Restaurant In Atlanta Has A Massive Food Challenge You Can Try To Conquer - Narcity (https://www.narcity.com/atlanta/the-nook-restaurant-in-atlanta-has-a-massive-food-challenge-you-can-try-to-conquer#:~:text=The Nook on Piedmont Park,and cheese and cajun Tatchos.)

Diners, drive ins and dives

The Nook
492 Hamline Ave S, St. Paul, MN 

http://www.crnook.com (http://www.crnook.com)

The Nook is a no-fuss burger joint that has mastered the art of stuffed burgers. The Spanish Fly consists of a 50/50 blend of beef and Spanish-spiced pork filled with queso. In honor of Guy, they created Guys Big Bite, a pepper Jack-stuffed burger with bacon, topped with roast beef and cheddar.

Special Dishes: The Juicy Nookie Burger, Guy's Big Bite Burger, Hand-Cut French Fries

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 24, 2023, 06:55:21 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 06:35:09 PM

well, there was a pandemic and very little driving with the lockdowns and no commutes to and from work

the pandemic ended almost 2 years ago

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 24, 2023, 07:20:12 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 04:39:14 PM

hell, I could own the golf course and sleep in the clubhouse for that kinda change

Prolly let you eat over the sink too

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 07:23:26 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 24, 2023, 06:55:21 PM

the pandemic ended almost 2 years ago

nov 7th 2020

not many folks buying gas
pandemic

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 24, 2023, 08:29:51 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 12:31:39 PM

gotta have gravy

I have this tattooed on my chest outside of my heart.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 08:38:30 PM

another reason to avoid fast food

hardly ever an option for gravy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 24, 2023, 08:54:03 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 08:38:30 PM

another reason to avoid fast food

hardly ever an option for gravy

You go to the wrong spots.  Whataburger has gravy. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 08:57:51 PM

no whataburger here

nearest is in KC, 4 hour drive

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2023, 06:34:12 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 06:35:09 PM

well, there was a pandemic and very little driving with the lockdowns and no commutes to and from work

Not here. Not where you live.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2023, 06:49:56 AM

This is good stuff.

Charlotte Technical College prepares students for living-wage careers - (gulfshorebusiness.com) (https://www.gulfshorebusiness.com/charlotte-technical-college-prepares-students-for-living-wage-careers/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on August 25, 2023, 08:03:04 AM

Japan to release radioactive water to Pacific ocean.  Commence cliff diving.

https://www.npr.org/2023/08/24/1195419846/fukushima-radioactive-water-japan (https://www.npr.org/2023/08/24/1195419846/fukushima-radioactive-water-japan)


Seriously, I haven't found any report of the amount of tritium in the water being released.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 25, 2023, 08:06:21 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 07:23:26 PM

nov 7th 2020

not many folks buying gas
pandemic

Agreed. However, prior to the start of the ScamDemic, the prices were nowhere near the $3.50/gal that they are today. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2023, 08:10:42 AM

expert comment on release of waste water from Fukushima into the Pacific | Science Media Centre (https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-comment-on-release-of-waste-water-from-fukushima-into-the-pacific/#:~:text=The Fukushima water discharge will,per year planned for Fukushima.)

The Fukushima water discharge will contain only harmless tritium and is not a unique event. Nuclear power plants worldwide have routinely discharged water containing tritium for over 60 years without harm to people or the environment, most at higher levels than the 22 TBq per year planned for Fukushima.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 25, 2023, 08:25:29 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 08:57:51 PM

no whataburger here

nearest is in KC, 4 hour drive

Then you should move. Just, not here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2023, 09:06:49 AM

The Ultimate Hot Dog Consumption Stats (thehotdog.org) (https://www.thehotdog.org/ultimate-hot-dog-consumption/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 25, 2023, 09:25:58 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/L7SahkM.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 25, 2023, 10:10:52 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 25, 2023, 08:06:21 AM

Agreed. However, prior to the start of the ScamDemic, the prices were nowhere near the $3.50/gal that they are today.

Take it from someone who is directly in the middle of a very boom/bust industry (NAND flash and DRAM)... The swings that suppliers see from being just a few percentage points oversupplied to a few percentage points undersupplied in a global market are dramatic. 

In this industry, it's driven by technological development driving investments in new fabs that cost billions of dollars each. When those fabs come online and start pumping out supply, you need supply and demand to still be in balance or things get ugly. 

The problem is that with the number of NAND and DRAM suppliers in the world (for NAND it's actually only 5, which is probably too many), they tend to all feel the same pressures at the same time, and respond to it in the same way.

• When the market gets oversupplied, they can't take supply out very quickly due to long lead times, so prices crater and they lose a LOT of money (BTW we're in that part of the cycle now, and it fucking sucks). When that happens, they cut back on investments to bare minimum to conserve cash. They do this at the same time their competitors are also losing money, also cutting back on investment, and also trying to conserve cash. 
• The natural result of this is that they underinvest for the return of demand, and when that comes, prices jump due to undersupply, profits jump, and all that investment starts flowing--which gets us to an oversupply about 2-3 years later. 
• The cycle repeats. 

The 2020 pandemic was a very unique (lack of) demand signal that oil producers didn't know what to do with. They didn't know how long it was going to last. They couldn't predict prices 2-3 years down the road because of the unknown. So they pulled back investment. They cut back new exploration/development projects. They shut down uneconomic wells. 


So they actively cut back supply--to well BELOW 2019 levels--because of uncertainty that they would ever see ROI. 

But once pandemic fears eased, we had a couple of problems. First, you had a global populace that had mostly put off travel and other things that cause gasoline demand for a year or more, and they now REALLY wanted to travel. Second, you had a populace who were in many cases more flush cash-wise because they had been cooped up for a year or more and so they had discretionary income to spend. Third, you had governments across the entire world that had injected fiscal stimulus into the economies which causes, you guessed it, price inflation!

So we're in an inflationary economic market with demand that has returned to previous levels but supply that hasn't caught up. 

I can't imagine why prices are higher than 2019! It's probably all Biden's fault, I guess...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2023, 10:15:42 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 25, 2023, 08:06:21 AM

Agreed. However, prior to the start of the ScamDemic, the prices were nowhere near the $3.50/gal that they are today.

agreed, but stating nov 7th 2020

ruins their argument
shows laziness at best
irgnorance for sure
Biden might be smarter than that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 25, 2023, 10:17:08 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 25, 2023, 10:10:52 AM

Take it from someone who is directly in the middle of a very boom/bust industry (NAND flash and DRAM)... The swings that suppliers see from being just a few percentage points oversupplied to a few percentage points undersupplied in a global market are dramatic.

In this industry, it's driven by technological development driving investments in new fabs that cost billions of dollars each. When those fabs come online and start pumping out supply, you need supply and demand to still be in balance or things get ugly.

The problem is that with the number of NAND and DRAM suppliers in the world (for NAND it's actually only 5, which is probably too many), they tend to all feel the same pressures at the same time, and respond to it in the same way.

• When the market gets oversupplied, they can't take supply out very quickly due to long lead times, so prices crater and they lose a LOT of money (BTW we're in that part of the cycle now, and it fucking sucks). When that happens, they cut back on investments to bare minimum to conserve cash. They do this at the same time their competitors are also losing money, also cutting back on investment, and also trying to conserve cash.
• The natural result of this is that they underinvest for the return of demand, and when that comes, prices jump due to undersupply, profits jump, and all that investment starts flowing--which gets us to an oversupply about 2-3 years later.
• The cycle repeats.

The 2020 pandemic was a very unique (lack of) demand signal that oil producers didn't know what to do with. They didn't know how long it was going to last. They couldn't predict prices 2-3 years down the road because of the unknown. So they pulled back investment. They cut back new exploration/development projects. They shut down uneconomic wells.


So they actively cut back supply--to well BELOW 2019 levels--because of uncertainty that they would ever see ROI.

But once pandemic fears eased, we had a couple of problems. First, you had a global populace that had mostly put off travel and other things that cause gasoline demand for a year or more, and they now REALLY wanted to travel. Second, you had a populace who were in many cases more flush cash-wise because they had been cooped up for a year or more and so they had discretionary income to spend. Third, you had governments across the entire world that had injected fiscal stimulus into the economies which causes, you guessed it, price inflation!

So we're in an inflationary economic market with demand that has returned to previous levels but supply that hasn't caught up.

I can't imagine why prices are higher than 2019! It's probably all Biden's fault, I guess...

This is why I got out of semiconductors and moved into the computer manufacturing industry.  The further out on the supply chain you get, the worse the "bullwhip effect" becomes.  Being closer to the final product and end-user customer, minimizes that volatility.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 25, 2023, 10:26:06 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 25, 2023, 10:17:08 AM

This is why I got out of semiconductors and moved into the computer manufacturing industry.  The further out on the supply chain you get, the worse the "bullwhip effect" becomes.  Being closer to the final product and end-user customer, minimizes that volatility.

Yeah, and it generally was never as MUCH of a boom/bust on the HDD side as it is in flash. Until the pandemic, when the biggest datacenter companies in the world kept buying HDDs expecting to deploy them but couldn't get OTHER parts of their supply chain until they all collectively realized they were sitting on massive inventories and said "nah, we don't need to buy for a while". And then hit their own economic troubles, and THEN got distracted by the shiny thing (AI) and decided to spend as much of their investment as possible on compute and try to extend their storage utilization farther rather than spend CapEx on storage. 

The good news is that towards the end of this calendar year we should at least return to growth, with the demand situation normalizing by mid-2024. So as long as I keep my job another few months, I should be safe. 

Of course, with HDD supplier CapEx being restrained to maintain cash during this downturn, and with demand potentially jumping as companies need to buy more storage to reduce their storage utilization levels, we might get into shortages. Those are a lot more fun from the supplier end lol. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 25, 2023, 10:32:22 AM

anyone catch the Swamp Kings doc yet on Netflix about Urbz, Tebow, and their run at Florida? It's a 4 part series and I'm 3 in and it just seems like nothing but a puff piece extoling the virtues of Urban Meyer and lionizing him as a patron saint of college football, father figure to these fatherless kids from the ghetto, an all-around amazing human being who also just happens to be a hard ass football coach and just loves to win him some football games but also really hates to lose! Whatta swell guy!

Completely glosses over Hernandez, the insane amount of arrests and off-field issues, Percy Harvin beating the actual fk out of one of their coaches, and just how absolutely reckless, out of control, and wild that team was- and how Urbz looked the other way and didn't give a flying you know what bc they were winning at an insane clip.

Typical Netflix product....it's fkn trash that sucks ass.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2023, 10:36:26 AM

I've never watched netflix

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 25, 2023, 10:37:39 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 25, 2023, 10:26:06 AM

Yeah, and it generally was never as MUCH of a boom/bust on the HDD side as it is in flash. Until the pandemic, when the biggest datacenter companies in the world kept buying HDDs expecting to deploy them but couldn't get OTHER parts of their supply chain until they all collectively realized they were sitting on massive inventories and said "nah, we don't need to buy for a while". And then hit their own economic troubles, and THEN got distracted by the shiny thing (AI) and decided to spend as much of their investment as possible on compute and try to extend their storage utilization farther rather than spend CapEx on storage.

The good news is that towards the end of this calendar year we should at least return to growth, with the demand situation normalizing by mid-2024. So as long as I keep my job another few months, I should be safe.

Of course, with HDD supplier CapEx being restrained to maintain cash during this downturn, and with demand potentially jumping as companies need to buy more storage to reduce their storage utilization levels, we might get into shortages. Those are a lot more fun from the supplier end lol.

Yeah, in my forecasting role I've called the bottom of the current valley and the turnaround toward growth as mid-Q4.  And things should really be cooking by Q2 of next year-- I've already placed heavy forecasts on my suppliers for March-August or so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2023, 10:37:57 AM

LONDON (AP) — Google, Facebook, TikTok and other Big Tech companies operating in Europe must comply with one of the most far-reaching efforts to clean up what people see online.

The European Union’s groundbreaking new digital rules took effect Friday for the biggest platforms. The Digital Services Act is part of a suite of tech-focused regulations crafted by the 27-nation bloc — long a global leader in cracking down on tech giants.

The DSA is designed to keep users safe online and stop the spread of harmful content that’s either illegal or violates a platform’s terms of service, such as promotion of genocide or anorexia. It also looks to protect Europeans’ fundamental rights like privacy and free speech.


___________________________________________

why are this social media companies referred to as Big Tech?
I don't see them as being real technical
It's a website

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 25, 2023, 10:38:31 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 25, 2023, 10:36:26 AM

I've never watched netflix

good for you. I envy you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2023, 10:40:10 AM

my daughters had or have an account
I no longer pay for it

I figured it was a thing for teenagers and chick flicks

no live sports - as far as I know

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 25, 2023, 10:41:04 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 25, 2023, 10:37:57 AM

LONDON (AP) — Google, Facebook, TikTok and other Big Tech companies operating in Europe must comply with one of the most far-reaching efforts to clean up what people see online.

The European Union’s groundbreaking new digital rules took effect Friday for the biggest platforms. The Digital Services Act is part of a suite of tech-focused regulations crafted by the 27-nation bloc — long a global leader in cracking down on tech giants.

The DSA is designed to keep users safe online and stop the spread of harmful content that’s either illegal or violates a platform’s terms of service, such as promotion of genocide or anorexia. It also looks to protect Europeans’ fundamental rights like privacy and free speech.


___________________________________________

why are this social media companies referred to as Big Tech?
I don't see them as being real technical
It's a website

They buy and use MASSIVE amounts of compute and storage.  They're also heavily into developing algorithms, data anlaysis, and these days AI.  They're definitely high tech companies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2023, 10:43:29 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 25, 2023, 10:36:26 AM

I've never watched netflix

What's a netflix?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 25, 2023, 10:45:34 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 25, 2023, 10:32:22 AM

anyone catch the Swamp Kings doc yet on Netflix about Urbz, Tebow, and their run at Florida? It's a 4 part series and I'm 3 in and it just seems like nothing but a puff piece extoling the virtues of Urban Meyer and lionizing him as a patron saint of college football, father figure to these fatherless kids from the ghetto, an all-around amazing human being who also just happens to be a hard ass football coach and just loves to win him some football games but also really hates to lose! Whatta swell guy!

Ya I really wasn't Big on him coming in Gatorama had him figured out - URBZ narcisist tendencies kept bleeding thru.Great coach and recruiter but once he got a a Championship head line he seemingly got to complacent and/or arrogant. Tried bs'ing adults like they were kids,should have stayed hungry & focused like Saban. but he did reel in Day who brought back Hartline so they've stayed competitive

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 25, 2023, 10:46:30 AM

honestly I was pissed watching that Netflix doc on Florida bc that had so much potential to be incredible and it probably would've been incredible had it been done by HBO or even a 30 for 30 by ESPN. There was SO much shit they should've dove into and they just glossed right over it or completely ignored it. Shit could've been the greatest cfb sports doc ever. It's just a rehabilitation PR campaign blowjob fest of Urban Meyer. Fk Netflix to hell forever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 25, 2023, 10:51:26 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 25, 2023, 10:40:10 AM

my daughters had or have an account
I no longer pay for it

I figured it was a thing for teenagers and chick flicks

no live sports - as far as I know

Cindy use to get it and could at least fetch some old movies. We watched Holy Grail and Kelly's Heroes with it. But they changed things up and charge xtra for some of the content

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 25, 2023, 11:04:47 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 25, 2023, 10:46:30 AM

honestly I was pissed watching that Netflix doc on Florida bc that had so much potential to be incredible and it probably would've been incredible had it been done by HBO or even a 30 for 30 by ESPN. There was SO much shit they should've dove into and they just glossed right over it or completely ignored it. Shit could've been the greatest cfb sports doc ever. It's just a rehabilitation PR campaign blowjob fest of Urban Meyer. Fk Netflix to hell forever.

To be honest I had you pegged as a Netflix fan due to their support for stand up comedy... They even stood up to the woke with the Chappelle special. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 25, 2023, 11:18:41 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 25, 2023, 11:04:47 AM

To be honest I had you pegged as a Netflix fan due to their support for stand up comedy... They even stood up to the woke with the Chappelle special.

the stand up specials are the only reason I haven't canceled Netflix. They keep raising the price and now I think for screen sharing I'm paying $26/mo. I remember the glory days when it was $10/mo, there was no extra charge for screen sharing, and they weren't pumping out their own god awful horseshit just to have content but instead were licensing the best tv & movie products from every major studio. Nothing lasts forever....

HBO still seems to do it right. That new Game of Thrones series was OK but it has potential- and it's still miles better than anything Netflix is doing. Then of course HBO has some real outstanding new shows like Last of US and Righteous Gemstones- which both shit all over anything that Netflix has ever done or ever could hope to do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 25, 2023, 11:22:39 AM

Stranger Things on Netflix is outstanding.

Drive to Survive is interesting but as a longtime F1 fan, it's definitely a shallow and formulaic take on the sport.  Still, it's well-produced and it's about Formula1 auto racing, which I love.

I can't say I've really watched anything else on Netflix so can't comment further.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 25, 2023, 11:28:04 AM

Quote from: utee94 on August 25, 2023, 11:22:39 AM

Stranger Things on Netflix is outstanding.

Drive to Survive is interesting but as a longtime F1 fan, it's definitely a shallow and formulaic take on the sport.  Still, it's well-produced and it's about Formula1 auto racing, which I love.

I can't say I've really watched anything else on Netflix so can't comment further.

We watched Full Swing, which was basically the PGA version of Drive to Survive. It was interesting largely because of the stuff at the time going on with the LIV tour. But beyond that, seeing the realities of PGAT life and what it's like beyond the tournaments was IMHO a good production. However, for non-golfers or non-fans of pro golf, I'm guessing it wouldn't be interesting. 

We also watched Quarterback, which was I think more of a puff piece, but decent enough that we didn't quit it--although it was only ~8 episodes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2023, 11:38:51 AM

We no longer pay for anything. Our HOA now provides fiber and streaming sticks.

Of course, the HOA went up $100/month, but that seems well worth it for fiber and 250 free channels (including ACC, BTN, SEC and LHN - no Pac).

We used to pay $55/month separately just for internet, and $90/month for Hulu.

Now I guess I'm gonna have to buy Peacock. Oh well.

Paramount+ is free with the 247 sports membership, so I guess I'll keep that for $100/year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 25, 2023, 11:56:27 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2023, 11:38:51 AM

We no longer pay for anything. Our HOA now provides fiber and streaming sticks.

Of course, the HOA went up $100/month, but that seems well worth it for fiber and 250 free channels (including ACC, BTN, SEC and LHN - no Pac).

We used to pay $55/month separately just for internet, and $90/month for Hulu.

Now I guess I'm gonna have to buy Peacock. Oh well.

Paramount+ is free with the 247 sports membership, so I guess I'll keep that for $100/year.

absolute horseshit the B1G let Comcast/NBC strong arm them into putting football games on Peacock. They should've told them to shove it where the sun don't shine. 

I believe only one Michigan game is on peacock this year, so I'll try to get a free trial and cancel it right after the game or at worst just sign up for one month then immediately cancel the day after the Michigan game.

F them bastards.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 25, 2023, 11:58:36 AM

honestly this cord cutting sucks. it was GREAT at first when there was just a few options and it was cheaper than cable. now there are 279 different streaming services and new ones coming out all the gd time and you wind up paying more than you did when you had cable with HBO and the sports packages if you get all the different streaming services.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2023, 11:58:42 AM

The Dawgs were on TV I could access last year except one game, I walked over to a sports bar to see it, spent about $20.  Thhe OSU-UM game was on as well, so I got to watch that some too.  It was decent.  The bar chick was pretty, not that I would notice.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 25, 2023, 11:59:08 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 25, 2023, 11:56:27 AM

absolute horseshit the B1G let Comcast/NBC strong arm them into putting football games on Peacock. They should've told them to shove it where the sun don't shine.

I believe only one Michigan game is on peacock this year, so I'll try to get a free trial and cancel it right after the game or at worst just sign up for one month then immediately cancel the day after the Michigan game.

F them bastards.

That's why they're paying the big bucks, so they can dump your games onto Peacock and attempt to force subscriptions.  I regularly see B1G fans crowing about the huge media contracts, but this is what comes along with it.  It's no different than the addition of Maryland and Rutgers-- you took the money, so you have to take all the downside, too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2023, 12:00:31 PM

I wonder how much hoops Peacock will take.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 25, 2023, 12:01:54 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 25, 2023, 11:59:08 AM

That's why they're paying the big bucks, so they can dump your games onto Peacock and attempt to force subscriptions.  I regularly see B1G fans crowing about the huge media contracts, but this is what comes along with it.  It's no different than the addition of Maryland and Rutgers-- you took the money, so you have to take all the downside, too.

unfortunately you're right. but I do wonder how hard the negotiators for the B1G even tried to fight that. would Comcast/NBC really blow up the deal and pass on securing the only content people watch on live tv anymore? don't know but it would've been interesting to see/know. my guess is B1G just said yeah ok cool whatever, no problem. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 25, 2023, 12:02:45 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2023, 12:00:31 PM

I wonder how much hoops Peacock will take.

they can take as much of any other sport they want as far as I'm concerned....just leave B1G football the hell off yer shitty streaming service.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2023, 12:05:57 PM

Comcast ain't paying all that $$$ for gymnastics.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 25, 2023, 12:06:21 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 25, 2023, 12:01:54 PM

unfortunately you're right. but I do wonder how hard the negotiators for the B1G even tried to fight that. would Comcast/NBC really blow up the deal and pass on securing the only content people watch on live tv anymore? don't know but it would've been interesting to see/know. my guess is B1G just said yeah ok cool whatever, no problem.

Does B1G Leadership care about the fans, or the money?  You have the answer to your question, right there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 25, 2023, 12:13:21 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2023, 12:05:57 PM

Comcast ain't paying all that $$$ for gymnastics.

true. if they can get 1 million B1G football fans to force subscribe to Peacock that's $72 million a year in new added revenue for their bs streaming platform. And it's $5.99/mo, so my guess is 99% of the new subscribers who sign up just forget or say meh it's $6 a month- less than a McDonald's meal now- and never cancel that ish. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2023, 12:20:29 PM

I have to sign up for one game (so far) and that game is Rutgers/homecoming.

Probably gonna have to keep it from then until hoops is over. Oh well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 25, 2023, 12:32:18 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 25, 2023, 10:10:52 AM

Take it from someone who is directly in the middle of a very boom/bust industry (NAND flash and DRAM)... The swings that suppliers see from being just a few percentage points oversupplied to a few percentage points undersupplied in a global market are dramatic.

In this industry, it's driven by technological development driving investments in new fabs that cost billions of dollars each. When those fabs come online and start pumping out supply, you need supply and demand to still be in balance or things get ugly.

The problem is that with the number of NAND and DRAM suppliers in the world (for NAND it's actually only 5, which is probably too many), they tend to all feel the same pressures at the same time, and respond to it in the same way.

• When the market gets oversupplied, they can't take supply out very quickly due to long lead times, so prices crater and they lose a LOT of money (BTW we're in that part of the cycle now, and it fucking sucks). When that happens, they cut back on investments to bare minimum to conserve cash. They do this at the same time their competitors are also losing money, also cutting back on investment, and also trying to conserve cash.
• The natural result of this is that they underinvest for the return of demand, and when that comes, prices jump due to undersupply, profits jump, and all that investment starts flowing--which gets us to an oversupply about 2-3 years later.
• The cycle repeats.

The 2020 pandemic was a very unique (lack of) demand signal that oil producers didn't know what to do with. They didn't know how long it was going to last. They couldn't predict prices 2-3 years down the road because of the unknown. So they pulled back investment. They cut back new exploration/development projects. They shut down uneconomic wells.


So they actively cut back supply--to well BELOW 2019 levels--because of uncertainty that they would ever see ROI.

But once pandemic fears eased, we had a couple of problems. First, you had a global populace that had mostly put off travel and other things that cause gasoline demand for a year or more, and they now REALLY wanted to travel. Second, you had a populace who were in many cases more flush cash-wise because they had been cooped up for a year or more and so they had discretionary income to spend. Third, you had governments across the entire world that had injected fiscal stimulus into the economies which causes, you guessed it, price inflation!

So we're in an inflationary economic market with demand that has returned to previous levels but supply that hasn't caught up.

I can't imagine why prices are higher than 2019! It's probably all Biden's fault, I guess...

I agree with everything you said. However, you conveniently leave out the actions that Biden took that help drive up prices. On his first day in office, he signed EO's that greatly hampered the ability to explore and transport oil in this country, not something one would do if they were generally wanting to help stave off inflation. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2023, 12:43:27 PM

Despite whatever Joe did, we're nearing record oil production in the US now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2023, 12:46:07 PM

should be 20% over the record right now

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2023, 01:16:53 PM

The peak was November 2019 at 13 million BPD.  If we look at when it was 20% lower than that, it would be 10.4, March 2018.  So it's possible to increase it 20% in a year and a half, historically.  Some of this is because the oil majors pulled in their investments, globally, not just in the US, fearing an over supply and price yoyos.

U.S. Field Production of Crude Oil (Thousand Barrels per Day) (eia.gov) (https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M)

Oddly enough, the large increase occured when Obama was President.  Either way, the "war on oil" is being lost.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 25, 2023, 02:23:33 PM

@Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) and  @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) :
You both said upthread that you were planning to subscribe (at least temporarily) to Peacock so that you could see games that your teams play on that platform. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but our teams each only have one game on Peacock, right?

• Wisconsin, Rutgers 
• Michigan, ECU
• Ohio State, Maryland 

Maybe I'm just not as big a fan as I used to be but I'm not doing it.

I can listen on the radio and I can usually find the games almost immediately after they are played on YouTube and I'm just not going to pay to get a game where my team will probably be favored by 3TD+ in real-time rather than a few hours later.

I guess the reason I'm raising this question is this:

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 25, 2023, 12:13:21 PM

true. if they can get 1 million B1G football fans to force subscribe to Peacock that's $72 million a year in new added revenue for their bs streaming platform. And it's $5.99/mo, so my guess is 99% of the new subscribers who sign up just forget or say meh it's $6 a month- less than a McDonald's meal now- and never cancel that ish.

If it works, they'll keep doing it. If it doesn't, they'll stop. 

We (posters on this board) are not a good representative sample of the populous. We are CFB fanatics (maybe former fanatics in a few cases @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) , @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) ) but we aren't "average". 

I'm not sure that Peacock's idea is going to work. I think that Mdot21's analysis above is EXACTLY their thinking. I'm just not sure there are enough UW/M/tOSU fans who care THAT much about games that aren't "big". 

Part of it for me is that with the advent of the CFP, Ohio State's mid-season game against Maryland simply doesn't have the impact that it used to. If Ohio State beats Penn State and Michigan they'll almost certainly go to the B1GCG with a shot at the CFP and if they lose one or both of those then they probably won't and the Maryland game doesn't change that except in a few relatively unlikely scenarios. 

I've never had BTN and it has been years since I've had any cable at all. In football it rarely bothers me. The tOSU games on BTN are generally games that I'm willing to miss/watch later on YouTube because the Buckeyes were favored by 3TD+ and the only games on ESPN lately have been CFP/Bowl games that are "events" where I'm usually going to a party anyway. 

I will say that BB is different, in BB season I would like to have BTN/ESPN.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2023, 02:42:37 PM

Still pondering, I guess.

I work, so weekends are my only time to boat. That Rutgers game would interfere as it's at Noon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2023, 03:07:56 PM

I have to ponder when the weather is good for golf

watching the Huskers is something to ponder now

hopefully, Rhule will change that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2023, 03:59:23 PM

Are these games usually "minor" games?  Radio would work for me OK for them.  I don't need to watch the UT Martin game for much, see the new OC and QB and whether there are any RBs unhurt.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2023, 04:10:28 PM

I'd have to figure out how to get the radio call. I don't even know what station they are on anymore.

would I have to pay to stream the radio call??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2023, 04:12:14 PM

In Florida, you'd be SOL I suspect, unless it's streamed, and maybe it is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 25, 2023, 04:16:48 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 25, 2023, 11:58:36 AM

honestly this cord cutting sucks. it was GREAT at first when there was just a few options and it was cheaper than cable. now there are 279 different streaming services and new ones coming out all the gd time and you wind up paying more than you did when you had cable with HBO and the sports packages if you get all the different streaming services.

Yup and thing is the cable commpanies do the servicing so these slime balls in a sea of puss are in fact gouging unchecked blatant profiteering. It's time congress take down Monopolies but now they call them "Umbrellas" and Congess has them in their stock portfolio - so we're not paranoid - the fix is in

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2023, 04:19:26 PM

Seems like I can stream a radio call.

♫ 1310 WIBA | News/Talk 1310, WIBA! (iheart.com) (https://www.iheart.com/live/1310-wiba-2661/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 25, 2023, 04:29:18 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 25, 2023, 03:59:23 PM

Are these games usually "minor" games?  Radio would work for me 

Yup amazing how much better most of their broadcasters are than the Boob tube.Specially in the fall when raking leaves

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2023, 04:32:21 PM

Husker radio calls are blacked out from streaming w/o a subscription
gotta pick it up over the air waves
Which I can do in NW Iowa

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 25, 2023, 04:36:52 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 25, 2023, 04:32:21 PM

Husker radio calls are blacked out from streaming w/o a subscription
gotta pick it up over the air waves
Which I can do in NW Iowa

WTF well ya that's why it's a radio - when they start charging then it's time to bring out the knives, pitchforks and torches

:character0029:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 25, 2023, 04:38:58 PM

Peacock is what, six bucks for a month? I don't really have a problem paying that, plus I can watch old Ric Flair matches.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 25, 2023, 05:19:08 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 25, 2023, 04:38:58 PM

Peacock is what, six bucks for a month? I don't really have a problem paying that, plus I can watch old Ric Flair matches.

true. $6 isn't much. but i am legit sick of paying for streaming services though. shit adds up for me when I'm already paying Netflix, HBOMax (refuse to call it MAX), YouTubeTV, and Disney/ESPN+. might have to start canceling this shit. always say I am going to and I never do. I'm one of those assholes who signs up for something, rarely uses it, gets billed every month and then never cancels. Comcast/NBC is hoping to get another sucker like me with this bullshit....and not gonna lie they probably will.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 25, 2023, 05:19:47 PM

Not caring about CFB has opened up a lot of extra Saturday time... But I usually golf on Sunday. And I pay attention to the NFL for fantasy football, so that can be a bit of a conflict. 

But at least we usually tee off in the morning (between 8 and 9 AM), so if I miss any of the NFL action, it's usually only the early games which start at 10 AM PT. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 25, 2023, 05:31:47 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on August 25, 2023, 05:19:08 PM

true. $6 isn't much. but i am legit sick of paying for streaming services though. shit adds up for me when I'm already paying Netflix, HBOMax (refuse to call it MAX), YouTubeTV, and Disney/ESPN+. might have to start canceling this shit. always say I am going to and I never do. I'm one of those assholes who signs up for something, rarely uses it, gets billed every month and then never cancels. Comcast/NBC is hoping to get another sucker like me with this bullshit....and not gonna lie they probably will.

And this is EXACTLY what all of us predicted when everyone thought a la carte cable was a good idea. 

The people who didn't think things through thought "I spend $100/mo for cable with 100 channels but only watch 20; if I can get a la carte I'll get everything I want for $20/mo!" The idea that unbundling cable was going to be a huge money saver didn't actually pan out. 

And it was buttressed by the live TV streaming services in the early days which were largely loss leaders and underpriced, and ever since have been climbing up, up, up nearly to cable rates. 

And then everyone complains about cost like:


(https://i.imgur.com/uZmRB2x.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on August 25, 2023, 06:25:16 PM

Streaming may cost less, but it is way easier to cancel, and you can watch almost anything whenever you want. I will piss on cable's grave. Good riddance.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2023, 06:32:02 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 25, 2023, 05:31:47 PM

And this is EXACTLY what all of us predicted when everyone thought a la carte cable was a good idea.

 The idea that unbundling cable was going to be a huge money saver didn't actually pan out.

doesn't pan out for fans of live sports or other valuable content.
It's great for the little ol lady that watches Matlock reruns.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 25, 2023, 06:45:50 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on August 25, 2023, 06:25:16 PM

Streaming may cost less, but it is way easier to cancel, and you can watch almost anything whenever you want. I will piss on cable's grave. Good riddance.

Yeah, the Dish Network lady first acted like I kicked her dog when I called to cancel.  By the end of the call, she was treating me like I murdered her children.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 26, 2023, 03:05:07 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 25, 2023, 04:10:28 PM

I'd have to figure out how to get the radio call. I don't even know what station they are on anymore.

would I have to pay to stream the radio call??

You can simply go to the UW radio station website and listen for free. 
For Florida, it's WRUF AM 850.  
It's nice to hear your team's announcer from afar.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2023, 08:29:12 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/xCmV9jV.png)

They are putting up "Holiday lights" already.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: jgvol on August 26, 2023, 08:45:09 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 25, 2023, 06:32:02 PM

doesn't pan out for fans of live sports or other valuable content.
It's great for the little ol lady that watches Matlock reruns.

This ^^^

I keep cable for this very reason. 

Brother in law kicks me in the nuts about it frequently. 

He invited us over for the SB a couple years back to watch on his Hulu.  That bullshit buffered for hours, and we were stuck in the 1st qtr as the actual 4th qtr was starting.

He apologized profusely as I was leaving.  With a shit eating grin on my face….”You get what you pay for —- not much.”

I’m sure things have improved, but I’m taking no chances yet. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2023, 08:48:01 AM

Hulu was great - and then it was $90/month.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2023, 09:05:08 AM

you have to pay for content

the delivery method doesn't matter

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on August 26, 2023, 09:06:30 AM

only reason I have YouTubeTV is so I can watch live sports. I literally have not watched anything else but sports on it. It's like $75/mo, used to be $55, price just kept going up. 

wish there was a streaming service that was strictly just live sports. Mainly just NFL and college football. That's all I want, don't want anything else YouTubeTV has to offer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2023, 09:08:15 AM

I have YouTube TV for the same reason

it's expensive, but I get my sports

the interface with the remote sucks, but I'm saving about $30/month

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2023, 09:08:27 AM

Mixed-Use Hilton Hotel Planned Along the Stitch | What Now Atlanta (https://whatnowatlanta.com/mixed-use-hilton-hotel-planned-along-the-stitch/?fbclid=IwAR2IPMT_BuecmNN7_tsOWGKJOznlbI1-uccaominlnH4llk1zEaj6Ziq7a4)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2023, 09:09:25 AM

The over the air channels are still "free".  I doubt anyone here gets those.  My wife's TV in her office does now, but she's mostly using her computer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2023, 09:40:29 AM

I've thought about putting up an antenna

I get locals on YouTube TV

not sure how youtube allows sharing
can two watch at the same time?

if not, I might get Viking football over the antenna while my uncle Skeeter in Minnesooota watches Chiefs football on youtube

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2023, 09:47:08 AM

Her TV isn't large, so I could move it into the living room where my larger TV resides and watch two if one was over the air.

I've never done that, but it might work during bowl season for example.  I bought one of those smaller antenna gadgets that works fine around here.  I could pick up a 25" flat screen anyway and do that permanently.  We get one channel box for free and the second one is about $7 per month, we have one, I don't want another.

It's not free of course, our sat TV is in the HOA, maybe they get a "deal deal" on it.  It goes out pretty often in bad weather.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2023, 10:25:38 AM

Biden's boys want to limit you to 2 beers a week

They want to be involved in everything we do

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12438233/Americans-limited-two-beers-strict-new-alcohol-guidelines-Bidens-booze-czar.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2023, 10:29:59 AM

an article from the UK???

I'll bet the government doesn't pass regulations to limit you and I to two beers a week in our lifetime.
I'll also bet the government doesn't try to take away your semi-automatic rifle or shotgun

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 26, 2023, 10:41:06 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 26, 2023, 09:09:25 AM

The over the air channels are still "free".  I doubt anyone here gets those.  My wife's TV in her office does now, but she's mostly using her computer.

AHEM

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 26, 2023, 10:43:25 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 26, 2023, 10:29:59 AM

I'll bet the government doesn't pass regulations to limit you and I to two beers a week in our lifetime.

DA FUQ - even Budweiser isn't that ignorant

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2023, 10:51:22 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 26, 2023, 10:29:59 AM

an article from the UK???

I'll bet the government doesn't pass regulations to limit you and I to two beers a week in our lifetime.
I'll also bet the government doesn't try to take away your semi-automatic rifle or shotgun

I agree but it does show just how much Brandon wants to mess around with your daily life

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2023, 10:57:29 AM

If they change their recommendations, I don't care, at all.  

As for "taking my gun", I suspect they will be trying, rather constantly, to do just that.

As for "doing", which is more relevant, probably not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2023, 11:09:49 AM

Brandon doesn't even know what he's doing in his daily life.

banning the sale of new semi-autos that "look" like assault weapons is one thing.

banning the sale of a semi-auto hunting rifle is another

making it illegal to own or possess a semi-auto hunting rifle isn't going to happen in my lifetime

Searching everyone's house to "take them away" is more ridiculous.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2023, 11:09:57 AM

you got to wonder why pick beer

Im sure the hard stuff is worse for you

I think he picked beer just before football season to target a certain group of folks

Its like they cant stand the idea of a group of people watching the game having some cool ones and enjoying themselves

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2023, 11:11:34 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 26, 2023, 11:09:57 AM

I think he picked beer just before football season to target a certain group of folks

(https://i.imgur.com/z2SCBKv.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: jgvol on August 26, 2023, 11:12:30 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 26, 2023, 11:09:57 AM

you got to wonder why pick beer

Im sure the hard stuff is worse for you

I think he picked beer just before football season to target a certain group of folks

Its like they cant stand the idea of a group of people watching the game having some cool ones and enjoying themselves

You’ve got.  Brandon and the Left want you to be as miserable as possible.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2023, 11:13:23 AM

It's not just beer, it's alcoholic drinks of whatever ilk.

Current US recommendations say women can have up to one bottle of beer, small glass of wine or shot of spirit a day while men can have two. 

But those guidelines are up for review in 2025. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2023, 11:14:59 AM

yer also not supposed to eat a 12 oz sirloin

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2023, 11:15:32 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 26, 2023, 11:13:23 AM

It's not just beer, it's alcoholic drinks of whatever ilk.

Current US recommendations say women can have up to one bottle of beer, small glass of wine or shot of spirit a day while men can have two.

But those guidelines are up for review in 2025.

this is 2 beers a week

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2023, 11:16:16 AM

My doc told me one a day was probably a positive, 2 a day he thought was neutral, and more than that was starting to get bad.

I think that's about right, which doesn't mean I do it.  We have all sorts of "recommendations" for this and that, no many of "us" follow all of them, or even know they exist.

I mean, it's ILLEGAL to drive over 70 on most freeways, not just a recommendation.  Around here, that'll get you run over unless you're in the right lane and/or traffic is clogged.  I try and hit the median speed when on a freeway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2023, 11:18:20 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 26, 2023, 11:15:32 AM

this is 2 beers a week

The CDC currently recommends that, in the U.S., men limit themselves to two drinks per day and women to one. Current U.S. guidelines are under review but may not be updated and released until 2025.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2023, 11:18:34 AM

yup, Biden or any other president is not "controlling" the population

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2023, 11:18:54 AM

Ive probable had at least 4 family doctors in my adult life and all of them advised me to drink less

so far Ive out lived 3 of them and working on the 4th

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2023, 11:19:18 AM

couldn't even force everyone to take a COVID shot

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2023, 11:20:13 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 26, 2023, 11:18:54 AM

Ive probable had at least 4 family doctors in my adult life and all of them advised me to drink less

so far Ive out lived 3 of them and working on the 4th

my Doc is a year older than me
he doesn't even bring up the topic

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2023, 11:23:51 AM

A problem I have is if I start, Katie bar the door.  Abstinence is easier than moderation.  I don't get drunk, don't get a hangover, but I will consume quite a bit sitting on the couch.  If I can just drink water all night, which I do sometimes, it's all good, I have more trouble getting to sleep though.

We all know things we "should" do to be more healthy.  I do some of them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2023, 11:27:20 AM

If all of a sudden beer drinkers in this country went to only 2 beers a week it would put thousands out of work and completely wreck the industry

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2023, 11:28:03 AM

Dietary Guidelines for Americans, 2020-2025 and Online Materials | Dietary Guidelines for Americans (https://www.dietaryguidelines.gov/resources/2020-2025-dietary-guidelines-online-materials)

I suppose all these "guidelines" might do some good, somebody somewhere is probably spending money reviewing them.  But I'd guess those who should listen to these are also those who completely ignore them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2023, 11:28:33 AM

The beer lobby is now activated.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2023, 11:29:39 AM

Overall U.S. beer consumption per adult age 21 and over is around 28.2 gallons per person, per year. Breaking these numbers down further, the average adult over the age of 21 is consuming about 10 ounces of per day, or roughly one six pack per week.

This is just beer of course, not including wine/liquor.  So, if folks drank as recommended, it would cut the beer business by more than half, 3x.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2023, 11:31:49 AM

I only drink coffee, water, and beer

and I'm cutting down on the 2 cups of coffee a morning

none this morning

I may have a scotch or gin martini or glass of wine with dinner once a month or so

trying to live long enough to cash a SS check

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2023, 11:32:54 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 26, 2023, 11:28:03 AM

Dietary Guidelines for Americans, 2020-2025 and Online Materials | Dietary Guidelines for Americans (https://www.dietaryguidelines.gov/resources/2020-2025-dietary-guidelines-online-materials)

I suppose all these "guidelines" might do some good, somebody somewhere is probably spending money reviewing them.  But I'd guess those who should listen to these are also those who completely ignore them.

well we dont have to worry bout those guideline cause Brandon's guy is revising all that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2023, 11:33:51 AM

I predict any revised guidelines will have zero impact on beer consumption.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2023, 11:35:27 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 26, 2023, 11:31:49 AM

I only drink coffee, water, and beer

and I'm cutting down on the 2 cups of coffee a morning

none this morning

I may have a scotch or gin martini or glass of wine with dinner once a month or so

trying to live long enough to cash a SS check

dont blame you

my goal is to take more money back from the Gov then they took from me

still have a few years to go

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2023, 11:36:38 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 26, 2023, 11:33:51 AM

I predict any revised guidelines will have zero impact on beer consumption.

Same.

The government has guidelines for almost everything, including fentanyl.

I'm not gonna quit drinking but should cut back.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2023, 11:36:50 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 26, 2023, 11:33:51 AM

I predict any revised guidelines will have zero impact on beer consumption.

of course not

but the point is seeing Brandons desires

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2023, 11:37:19 AM

I'll cross that bridge much later if possible

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2023, 11:37:46 AM

My guess is we here know far more about this than brandon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2023, 11:38:14 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 26, 2023, 11:36:50 AM

of course not

but the point is seeing Brandons desires

shit, you desire to take all your money back from the government

doesn't mean anything

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2023, 11:39:58 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 26, 2023, 11:38:14 AM

shit, you desire to take all your money back from the government

doesn't mean anything

maybe not to you but Ive got my goals and thats one of them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2023, 11:50:12 AM

Being self-employed since 2001 and paying the employer contribution for every employee, I'll never see what I've paid in. 

It's impossible.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2023, 11:51:42 AM

you've got as much control over your goal as Brandon does his

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2023, 12:36:39 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 26, 2023, 11:29:39 AM

Overall U.S. beer consumption per adult age 21 and over is around 28.2 gallons per person, per year. Breaking these numbers down further, the average adult over the age of 21 is consuming about 10 ounces of per day, or roughly one six pack per week.

This is just beer of course, not including wine/liquor.  So, if folks drank as recommended, it would cut the beer business by more than half, 3x.

The logic here is flawed

Not every person over 21 drinks beer so the average per beer drinker is much higher

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2023, 12:57:49 PM

Of course the average per beer drinker is higher.  I just wondered how much this would cut beer consumption if everyone adhered to the new guidelines.  It's huge.  And irrelevant I think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2023, 01:20:55 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 26, 2023, 12:57:49 PM

Of course the average per beer drinker is higher.  I just wondered how much this would cut beer consumption if everyone adhered to the new guidelines.  It's huge.  And irrelevant I think.

my point is that because actual beer drinkers are less then the amount of average consumption would be higher and thus the amount of reducing actual beer drinkers to 2 a week would be even greater

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2023, 01:26:08 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 24, 2023, 06:34:03 PM

[img width=393.997 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/TcWc8RD.png[/img]

here's a better example from my phone

December 27th, 2018


(https://i.imgur.com/jQ1HXuM.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 26, 2023, 01:29:32 PM

i drink a lot less beer than I did ten years ago.  

(more wine, though)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2023, 01:32:33 PM

the same station on March 17, 2020 - COVID hadn't really shut things down yet


March 13, 2020

The Trump Administration declares a nationwide emergency and issues an additional travel ban on non-U.S. citizens traveling from 26 European countries due to COVID-19.

(https://i.imgur.com/lgiaFlT.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2023, 01:33:18 PM

I drink a lot less alcohol in any form than I did 10 years ago

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2023, 01:35:06 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 26, 2023, 01:20:55 PM

my point is that because actual beer drinkers are less then the amount of average consumption would be higher and thus the amount of reducing actual beer drinkers to 2 a week would be even greater

Gotcha.  Yes, if beer drinkers went from ~4 six packs a week to 0.3 it would matter a lot.  But of course they won't.  I don't think the Beer Lobby needs to enlist aid from the Egg Lobby over this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 26, 2023, 01:36:45 PM

If anyone needs info on homebrewing, I'm here...

...just in case Biden's gestapo start tracking your alcohol purchases. 

(https://i.imgur.com/j5UFXLi.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2023, 01:37:07 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 26, 2023, 01:35:06 PM

Gotcha.  Yes, if beer drinkers went from ~4 six packs a week to 0.3 it would matter a lot.  But of course they won't.  I don't think the Beer Lobby needs to enlist aid from the Egg Lobby over this.

I agree


Just another pie in the sky item on a wish list

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2023, 01:38:17 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 26, 2023, 01:36:45 PM

If anyone needs info on homebrewing, I'm here...

...just in case Biden's gestapo start tracking your alcohol purchases.

(https://i.imgur.com/j5UFXLi.png)

We stand at the ready Commander

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2023, 01:38:38 PM

Oil prices briefly went negative when COVID first hit.

Demand had gone to near zero and a lot of tankers were en route, and not wanted.  Storage was full.  

The price started falling pretty early in the COVID scare before it was known what would happen.  Weird times, I'm glad to be now.

(https://i.imgur.com/P3tCujk.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2023, 01:42:42 PM

that's why dec of 2018 is a much better example of Trump doing good and Biden doing bad

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 26, 2023, 04:26:06 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 26, 2023, 11:09:57 AM

I think he picked beer just before football season to target a certain group of folks

A rather large group of people that will vote his misguided arse out of office

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 26, 2023, 04:28:04 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 26, 2023, 01:36:45 PM

If anyone needs info on homebrewing, I'm here...

Hell I'll even use the IPA recipes - Desperado I am

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 26, 2023, 05:00:16 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 26, 2023, 01:36:45 PM

If anyone needs info on homebrewing, I'm here...

...just in case Biden's gestapo start tracking your alcohol purchases.

(https://i.imgur.com/j5UFXLi.png)

I tried home brewing and had a lot of fun

at the time my cost was abour 25 cents a beer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 26, 2023, 07:06:27 PM

As I've said before, the inequality between the number of homebrewers who love their own beer, and the number of homebrewers who actually produce palatable beer, is... well... vast. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 26, 2023, 07:14:51 PM

Quote from: utee94 on August 26, 2023, 07:06:27 PM

As I've said before, the inequality between the number of homebrewers who love their own beer, and the number of homebrewers who actually produce palatable beer, is... well... vast. :)

Well, yeah... Because a lot of people who would be attracted to homebrewing are, well, not exactly the kind of people that you'd think would be successful at homebrewing. You know... Drunken morons. 

I, on the other hand, am a drunken engineer. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on August 26, 2023, 07:16:21 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 26, 2023, 07:14:51 PM

Well, yeah... Because a lot of people who would be attracted to homebrewing are, well, not exactly the kind of people that you'd think would be successful at homebrewing. You know... Drunken morons.

I, on the other hand, am a drunken engineer.

Oh yeah, of course YOUR homebrew is excellent.  EEs Rule!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 27, 2023, 01:20:48 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 26, 2023, 10:51:22 AM

I agree but it does show just how much Brandon wants to mess around with your daily life

I think it probably shows how much people want to be offended, and how content that stokes that is good for clicks and shares. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 27, 2023, 01:23:11 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 26, 2023, 11:36:38 AM

Same.

The government has guidelines for almost everything, including fentanyl.

I'm not gonna quit drinking but should cut back.

On the fentanyl? Probably. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 27, 2023, 01:34:41 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 27, 2023, 01:20:48 AM

I think it probably shows how much people want to be offended, and how content that stokes that is good for clicks and shares.

Yes I get offended anytime some other person wants to control my life

The only person other then me who controls my life is my wife of which I gave up being offended long ago

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 07:36:37 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 26, 2023, 07:14:51 PM

I, on the other hand, am a drunken engineer.

How about those who can brew a Märzen drunken or otherwise

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2023, 07:49:59 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 27, 2023, 01:34:41 AM

Yes I get offended anytime some other person wants to control my life

The only person other then me who controls my life is my wife of which I gave up being offended long ago

I support this sentiment, but you (and I) only have the illusion of control, regardless of who is president.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 27, 2023, 08:15:03 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 27, 2023, 01:34:41 AM

Yes I get offended anytime some other person wants to control my life

The only person other then me who controls my life is my wife of which I gave up being offended long ago

So I am to take it that you hate stop signs? And speed limit? And not being able to drive on the sidewalk or snort cocaine in elementary school classrooms? And cops. Guessing you loathe those.

Can’t imagine the anger you feel toward laws coming from your preferred side of the political aisle that seek to punish various things.

(those are actual things where we’re controlled. This is basically the percentages in the grocery store nutrition facts, but maybe those offend you too?)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 08:30:34 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 27, 2023, 01:34:41 AM

Yes I get offended anytime some other person wants to control my life

The only person other then me who controls my life is my wife of which I gave up being offended long ago

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 27, 2023, 08:15:03 AM

So I am to take it that you hate stop signs? And speed limit? And not being able to drive on the sidewalk or snort cocaine in elementary school classrooms? And cops. Guessing you loathe those.

That's perplexing are you hung over? Just how in the hell do you weave that into what he posted? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2023, 08:41:10 AM

We all are controlled to some degree obviously in order to live in "civilized ordered society".  We get annoyed when it seems others are not being similarly "controlled".

Controls like traffic signals make sense to us, and we largely obey them.  Speed limits largely don't, and we largely break them.

We can't legally obtain and use marijuana in all 57 states, it's still against Federal law.  It's hardly enforced, which is another peeve of mine.  Have fewer laws and then enforce them equally.  Ha.

Even freedom of speech etc. is limited and controlled.  Beer drinking is not unless in so doing we endanger others.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2023, 09:51:52 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 27, 2023, 01:34:41 AM

Yes I get offended anytime some other person wants to control my life

The only person other then me who controls my life is my wife of which I gave up being offended long ago

If the dietary guidelines controlled *anyone's* life, we wouldn't be a nation of fatasses and there'd be no market for fast food restaurants. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 27, 2023, 10:07:28 AM

Biden would do better trying to control the nutrition for school breakfast and lunches

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 27, 2023, 10:18:22 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 08:30:34 AM

That's perplexing are you hung over? Just how in the hell do you weave that into what he posted?

Government guidance is not controlling someone’s life. It’s hot air. 

Whereas there are a bunch of laws that *actually* control your life, with punishments and everything. And people don’t give it much thought. 

So if the former earns more than an eye roll, while the latter doesn’t bother you, I’m going to assume it’s a case of getting “mad” because it’s fun to get mad at the folks across the aisle. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2023, 10:24:15 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 27, 2023, 10:18:22 AM

Government guidance is not controlling someone’s life. It’s hot air.

It can be, depending, but it's optional.  Imagine a person who relies heavily on such guidance, it does then control  their life.

But I'm agreeing with your basic point of course.  I've known folks who "religiously" did stuff because of 'expert advice'.  They wanted to "live forever" etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2023, 10:27:23 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 27, 2023, 10:18:22 AM

Government guidance is not controlling someone’s life. It’s hot air.

Agree. Mandates, on the other hand... Grrr...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2023, 10:46:04 AM

What mandates did we have during COVID broadly?  I know there were some locally for certain occupations.

We had a few events where we had to show that card thingee.  They were optional.  My recollection is most of the broad mandates were shot down legally.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2023, 10:51:40 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 27, 2023, 10:46:04 AM

What mandates did we have during COVID broadly?  I know there were some locally for certain occupations.

We had a few events where we had to show that card thingee.  They were optional.  My recollection is most of the broad mandates were shot down legally.

Masks on planes. Masks depending on where you lived. Vaccines, depending on where you worked (or served our country). Vaccines for travel. Non-"essential" businesses forced to close.

There was a lot of broadness.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 10:52:35 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 27, 2023, 10:18:22 AM

Government guidance is not controlling someone’s life. It’s hot air.

Whereas there are a bunch of laws that *actually* control your life, with punishments and everything. And people don’t give it much thought.

So if the former earns more than an eye roll, while the latter doesn’t bother you, I’m going to assume it’s a case of getting “mad” because it’s fun to get mad at the folks across the aisle.

he never remotely stated anything close to what you surmised - taking that totally out of context. At least not on that page

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on August 27, 2023, 11:13:49 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2023, 10:51:40 AM

Masks on planes. Masks depending on where you lived. Vaccines, depending on where you worked (or served our country). Vaccines for travel. Non-"essential" businesses forced to close.

There was a lot of broadness.

How soon they forget.  Unreal.  So many still today who lost their job because it vaccine mandate. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 11:26:21 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on August 27, 2023, 10:07:28 AM

Biden would do better trying to control the nutrition for school breakfast and lunches

Seeing as he's demented he should have checked in to lead paint chips he was munching on 1st

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 27, 2023, 11:30:13 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 10:52:35 AM

he never remotely stated anything close to what you surmised - taking that totally out of context. At least not on that page

But he did. 

He used this as an example of the government trying to control him and noted The only one who can control him is his wife.

but the government controls him and all sorts of ways, in ways that go well beyond suggesting what you should do, to which you can easily answer “eff that” and no one will care. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2023, 11:41:32 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2023, 10:51:40 AM

Masks on planes. Masks depending on where you lived. Vaccines, depending on where you worked (or served our country). Vaccines for travel. Non-"essential" businesses forced to close.

There was a lot of broadness.

By "broadly", I guess I meant universallly.  A person could have avoided all of the above unless he wanted to retain employment with whatever agency.

We did have a lot of specific mandates, no doubt.  And there were many states that "shut down" a lot of stuff.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 11:47:05 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 27, 2023, 11:30:13 AM

But he did.

NO he didn't his remark was generic/innocuos . And if he was remarking on anything Brandon has barked specially the Beer and getting rid on Natural Gas use in the near future - then he's certainly right. So going down your path Biden's strategies appear in line with his CCP overlords that has been paying him/Hunter off and putting America's working class last. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2023, 11:48:56 AM

They are getting rid of natural gas in the "near future"?  I know folks talk wildly about such things, but I think this is false.  We're not even getting rid of coal any time soon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2023, 11:52:42 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 27, 2023, 11:41:32 AM

By "broadly", I guess I meant universallly.  A person could have avoided all of the above unless he wanted to retain employment with whatever agency.

We did have a lot of specific mandates, no doubt.  And there were many states that "shut down" a lot of stuff. 

Per the discussion we had a few days ago, there are very few areas where FedGov can implement universally. Badge brought up masks on airplanes, which is one area they can (via FAA regulations based on CDC guidance). Another was masks for servicemembers. One area they tried (and failed IIRC) was mandating that anyone working for a company with Federal contracts would be required to get the vaccine. Don't quote me on that last one--it's how I remember it but I'm not going to put the time into looking it up. 

However, pretty much everything else falls under the state police powers area. Which is why CA mandates were different than FL, of course. Even here in CA, it was a STATE rule that people in healthcare had to wear masks. While that aligned with CDC guidance, the CDC can't force that on the states. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 11:57:48 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 27, 2023, 11:48:56 AM

They are getting rid of natural gas in the "near future"?  I know folks talk wildly about such things, but I think this is false.  We're not even getting rid of coal any time soon.

Just going on what the blisterhead barked,I didn't say it was going to happen.And how bent is his party to allow him to tell us how much/many suds we should consume? When it's obvious  he's a puupet at best a traitor at worst - and I didn't vote for TRUMP either

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2023, 12:03:46 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 11:47:05 AM

NO he didn't his remark was generic/innocuos . And if he was remarking on anything Brandon has barked specially the Beer and getting rid on Natural Gas use in the near future - then he's certainly right. So going down your path Biden's strategies appear in line with his CCP overlords that has been paying him/Hunter off and putting America's working class last.

No, this is all a damn nothingburger. 

Dietary Guidelines are published by the USDA on a 5 year schedule. They are not regulations. They are not binding. They are not controlling your life in any way, shape, or form. They are basically a technocratic make-work program so the government can say "here is what we believe the science says is the most healthy diet."

Biden has largely nothing to do with this, beyond appointing the head of the USDA. He doesn't care how much beer you drink. For all of you who think he's a senile, doddering old fool, do you really think he's digging his claws into non-binding USDA dietary guidelines? Of course not. My 99.999% guess is that Biden found out about the new alcohol guidelines at the same time the rest of us did. There's no reason it would even have crossed his desk. 

Then 320 whined about Brandon controlling his life. Like he was going to regulate American beer consumption. Yet that's nothing even remotely like what is going on here. As I said, if the USDA Dietary Guidelines were actually controlling everyone's life, we wouldn't be a nation of damn fatasses. The obesity levels in this country largely occur because nobody pays attention to those guidelines anyway. 

And now you're bringing up a COMPLETELY unrelated aspect, natural gas stoves, which might actually be worth complaining about if it becomes a real REGULATION. But it's a red herring because the dietary guidelines are not regulations, have never been regulations, and nobody is talking about making them regulations to control every American's diet. 

Don't worry, conservatives... The gov't isn't coming for your Bud Light Coors Light. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 27, 2023, 12:15:05 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 27, 2023, 11:13:49 AM

How soon they forget.  Unreal.  So many still today who lost their job because it vaccine mandate.

tit or tat


no one lost their job because of the mandate
folks lost their job because they refused to get a shot

I don't remember a federal mandate forcing anyone to get a shot.
Unless of course you worked for the federal government

I didn't work for the government, but if my employer had mandated a shot, like my employer mandates many things like dress code.  Then I have a decision to make.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2023, 12:19:51 PM

I think we can all agree this beer thing is advisory, not mandatory, and unlikely to influence anyone's behaviors.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 12:28:05 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2023, 12:03:46 PM

No, this is all a damn nothingburger.

yes and Lonhgorn commented he did not want to hear such drivel and BAB somehow took offense. But Brandon did state such outlandish things

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2023, 12:40:34 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 12:28:05 PM

yes and Lonhgorn commented he did not want to hear such drivel and BAB somehow took offense. But Brandon did state such outlandish things

Really? You have a quote from Biden on this?

All I can see is that this is supposedly attributed to Dr George Koob, and some people call him Biden's "alcohol czar". 

However, it's strange... He doesn't show up on the list of Biden's political appointments (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_appointments_by_Joe_Biden). 

But I get that... Maybe he's Biden's hand-picked alcohol czar and he got one of his underlings to appoint him... 

...BUT...

Dr George Koob got his current role in 2014 (https://drugfree.org/drug-and-alcohol-news/nih-announces-new-head-of-niaaa-after-several-years-of-acting-director/), when Biden wasn't POTUS. 

So... Exactly what does Biden have to do with this again? 

It's a nothingburger. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 27, 2023, 12:42:49 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2023, 12:03:46 PM

Then 320 whined about Brandon controlling his life. Like he was going to regulate American beer consumption. Yet that's nothing even remotely like what is going on here. As I said, if the USDA Dietary Guidelines were actually controlling everyone's life, we wouldn't be a nation of damn fatasses. The obesity levels in this country largely occur because nobody pays attention to those guidelines anyway.

You are wrong.  I never suggested this potted plant controlled my life.  Only that he would like to. This guy has weaponized the DOJ to step on citizens rights and needs to be watched closely

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2023, 12:44:51 PM

A LOT of what politicians say is simply noise not backed up by anything of substance, maybe a fig leaf or two.  I don't see any realistic chance the US will somehow abandon natural gas in the coming decades.  It's really not possible (short of massive economic breakdown).  This is the EIA projection to 2050.  

(https://i.imgur.com/4tdFTJ1.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2023, 12:44:56 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 27, 2023, 12:42:49 PM

You are wrong.  I never suggested this potted plant controlled my life.  Only that he would like to. This guy has weaponized the DOJ to step on citizens rights and needs to be watched closely

Well, don't worry. I don't think he's gonna be sending the DOJ after you if you have 3 beers a week. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 12:46:24 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2023, 12:40:34 PM

Really? You have a quote from Biden on this?

I had read it in mass media and they shanguied brandon's name didn't bother reading any further but enough outlets ran with it  can YOU state absolutely he didn't? check back later a friend a couple of streets over lost power

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 27, 2023, 12:47:37 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2023, 12:44:56 PM

Well, don't worry. I don't think he's gonna be sending the DOJ after you if you have 3 beers a week.

maybe not but you better not protest anything at the next school board meeting

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2023, 12:48:55 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 12:44:47 PM

I had read it in mass media and they shanguied brandon's name didn't bother reading any further but enough outlets ran with it  can state absolutely he didn't? check back later a friend a couple od streets over lost power

Great. So you're making political accusations based on clickbait headlines for news stories you didn't read? 

I expect better here. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2023, 12:50:29 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 27, 2023, 12:47:37 PM

maybe not but you better not protest anything at the next school board meeting

Plenty of folks have been complaining at such meetings, just as they did years ago.  And nobody has been arrested for complaining.  Maybe a few were arrested or banned for making threats.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2023, 12:51:43 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 27, 2023, 12:47:37 PM

maybe not but you better not protest anything at the next school board meeting

So you can't claim that Biden has anything to do with this bad thing, so you'll bring up another bad thing to distract us from the fact that your initial position was baseless? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 27, 2023, 12:53:24 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2023, 12:48:55 PM

I expect better here.

well, Nubbz and I are here to disappoint you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 27, 2023, 12:54:45 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 27, 2023, 12:50:29 PM

Plenty of folks have been complaining at such meetings, just as they did years ago.  And nobody has been arrested for complaining.  Maybe a few were arrested or banned for making threats.

Wrong

https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/education-news/hisd/2023/06/21/454893/houston-isd-board-meeting-teacher-arrested-charged-criminal-trespassing/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2023, 12:57:41 PM

Was he arrested for complaining, or some other act?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 27, 2023, 12:58:14 PM

trespassing

just being there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2023, 01:01:52 PM

I know for a fact that plenty of folks continue to complain at school board meetings.  It's common.  And not something new.

I've complained at school board meetings.  They sort of listened and ignored me.

Waste of time.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 27, 2023, 01:08:36 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 27, 2023, 12:57:41 PM

Was he arrested for complaining, or some other act?

if I wanted to I could site several other examples but I trust you could do that too and youre good at it so charge

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2023, 01:26:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 27, 2023, 12:57:41 PM

Was he arrested for complaining, or some other act?

From the article:


"Eugene declined to provide additional details about what led to his arrest, citing advice from his attorney."

But you can find more here (https://original.newsbreak.com/@david-e-1662766/3069944943089-teacher-arrested-at-hisd-board-meeting-charged-with-trespassing-sparks-controversy-over-public-participation):

Quote

The meeting was held at the Hattie Mae White Educational Support Center, with limited capacity due to COVID-19 restrictions, allowing only 35 people inside. Unfortunately, Eugene and numerous other speakers and members of the public were denied entry into the auditorium. Witnesses reported that Eugene, along with two other Black men, were escorted out of the building when they refused to relocate to an overflow room, where participants were required to deliver their comments via webcam.


Eyewitnesses claim that Eugene, maintaining a peaceful demeanor, attempted to reenter the support center but was swiftly apprehended. He was subsequently released from custody the following day, as court records confirm. Both Eugene and HISD have refrained from commenting on the arrest, citing the ongoing nature of the case.

So... Sounds like he wasn't arrested for saying he was complaining about something the school board wanted to do. 

Not defending the school board here BTW. Only pointing out that this is clearly misconstrued by 320 about someone being arrested for voicing an opinion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 27, 2023, 01:49:32 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 12:46:24 PM

I had read it in mass media and they shanguied brandon's name didn't bother reading any further but enough outlets ran with it  can YOU state absolutely he didn't? check back later a friend a couple of streets over lost power

I think this comes back to my main point.

That article was catnip for people was wanted to be offended by a particular thing. That thing being the side of the political aisle they don’t agree with. It’s basically “senile man bad” to counter “orange man bad.”

and if we want to indulge in sort of fluffy “senile man bad” complaints, hey, it’s a free country. But I’ll point out what it is if I feel like.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2023, 01:55:16 PM

This isn't going anywhere...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 02:45:42 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 27, 2023, 01:49:32 PM

I think this comes back to my main point.

That article was catnip for people was wanted to be offended by a particular thing. That thing being the side of the political aisle they don’t agree with. It’s basically “senile man bad” to counter “orange man bad.”

and if we want to indulge in sort of fluffy “senile man bad” complaints, hey, it’s a free country. But I’ll point out what it is if I feel like.

Again I didn't read it but enough media services were/are stating it and back to the original point 320 wasn't discussing any particular of this when he made a vague comment and you piled on with assumptions,Good Day

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 02:51:36 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2023, 12:48:55 PM

Great. So you're making political accusations based on clickbait headlines for news stories you didn't read?

I expect better here.

I commented that's what this is a comment section,am I guitly of character assasination state your case counsel !!!

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2023, 12:44:56 PM

Well, don't worry. I don't think he's gonna be sending the DOJ after you if you have 3 beers a week.

Great that would be nice to wash down the 6 dollar a dozen eggs that some how has happened under his magnificent watch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2023, 03:07:20 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 02:51:36 PM

I commented that's what this is a comment section,am I guitly of character assasination state your case counsel !!!Great that would be nice to wash down the 6 dollar a dozen eggs that some how has happened under his magnificent watch.

Now I've seen it all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 27, 2023, 03:11:11 PM

https://www.dailysignal.com/2023/08/14/exclusive-court-upholds-texas-dads-free-speech-claim-school-board-had-him-arrested/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2023, 03:13:17 PM

Remember:  school board members are separate from the schools themselves and are elected members of the community.  Just normal people who seek it out.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 27, 2023, 03:19:07 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2023, 03:13:17 PM

Remember:  school board members are separate from the schools themselves and are elected members of the community.  Just normal people who seek it out. 

so what is your point

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 03:20:55 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2023, 03:07:20 PM

Now I've seen it all.

Glad you pulled the scale from your eyes amongst pulling other things

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2023, 03:22:04 PM

Because some people out there are going to lump school boards in with teachers and principals and such, when we're separate entities.  They're not paid.  They're from the same pool of people who show up each month to bitch at them.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 27, 2023, 03:28:07 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2023, 03:22:04 PM

Because some people out there are going to lump school boards in with teachers and principals and such, when we're separate entities.  They're not paid.  They're from the same pool of people who show up each month to bitch at them. 

school boards have overall decision power over what is taught and how you teach it

matters not if they get compensation

these folks can have agendas just like any other elected officials can have

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2023, 03:28:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2023, 03:13:17 PM

Remember:  school board members are separate from the schools themselves and are elected members of the community.  Just normal people who seek it out. 

The equivalent of HOA tyrants then?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2023, 03:29:43 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 27, 2023, 03:28:07 PM

school boards have overall decision power over what is taught and how you teach it

matters not if they get compensation

these folks can have agendas just like any other elected officials can have

This has nothing to do with what I said.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2023, 03:29:50 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2023, 03:28:26 PM

The equivalent of HOA tyrants then?

Basically.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 03:30:18 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2023, 03:22:04 PM

Because some people out there are going to lump school boards in with teachers and principals and such, when we're separate entities.  They're not paid.  They're from the same pool of people who show up each month to bitch at them. 

Ya the people like us who aren't anarchists cheering BLM on as Sheybogan went up in smoke

And go blow smoke up someone else's ass school board members in Florida, California, New York, Virginia, North Carolina, and Alabama receive salaries. Perhaps why that your left

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2023, 03:30:55 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 27, 2023, 03:28:07 PM

school boards have overall decision power over what is taught and how you teach it

matters not if they get compensation

these folks can have agendas just like any other elected officials can have

I do believe we call this "federalism"...

...because I'm quite sure you're not advocating for centralized control of education in Washington DC. 

The school board is elected by the community. If they're not teaching what the community wants, shouldn't they vote them out? Or should we allow tyranny of the minority where every crank in the community can veto what the REST of the community wants to be taught?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 27, 2023, 03:35:58 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2023, 03:30:55 PM

I do believe we call this "federalism"...

...because I'm quite sure you're not advocating for centralized control of education in Washington DC.

The school board is elected by the community. If they're not teaching what the community wants, shouldn't they vote them out? Or should we allow tyranny of the minority where every crank in the community can veto what the REST of the community wants to be taught?

yes they should follow what the community wants and voted out if they dont

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 03:40:25 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2023, 03:30:55 PM

...because I'm quite sure you're not advocating for centralized control of education in Washington DC.

That would be so disconcerting I just might drink IPAs, 3 a week or not

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on August 27, 2023, 03:45:07 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 03:40:25 PM

That would be so disconcerting I just might drink IPAs, 3 a week or not

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2023, 03:30:55 PM

I do believe we call this "federalism"...

...because I'm quite sure you're not advocating for centralized control of education in Washington DC.

The school board is elected by the community. If they're not teaching what the community wants, shouldn't they vote them out? Or should we allow tyranny of the minority where every crank in the community can veto what the REST of the community wants to be taught?

I think that would be held unconstitutional as this is reserved for the states

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 03:51:11 PM

If not we could always secede - which considering the current state of affairs may not be a bad idea .Or drain the swamp

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2023, 04:05:46 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 03:30:18 PM

Ya the people like us who aren't anarchists cheering BLM on as Sheybogan went up in smoke

And go blow smoke up someone else's ass school board members in Florida, California, New York, Virginia, North Carolina, and Alabama receive salaries. Perhaps why that your left

So in a discussion about school boards, you bring up BLM?  Then list 6 states that pay their school board members, leading us to understand 44 don't?

Are you frothing at the mouth?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 04:26:56 PM

No after you fired shots across the bow, and truth stands no matter how many years later. And you stated They're not paid. so good to see you have math down stay away from social studies

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2023, 05:24:46 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2023, 03:07:20 PM

Now I've seen it all.

You are too young to have seen it all. give it time, young grasshopper.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2023, 05:26:43 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 03:30:18 PM

Ya the people like us who aren't anarchists cheering BLM on as Sheybogan went up in smoke

And go blow smoke up someone else's ass school board members in Florida, California, New York, Virginia, North Carolina, and Alabama receive salaries. Perhaps why that your left

Kenosha. Watched it happen from my boat. AR and 357 at the ready.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2023, 05:29:32 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 27, 2023, 03:28:26 PM

The equivalent of HOA tyrants then?

You know what I do with those? 

I kill them with kindness, and perfect plans. I've never lost.









And never will.



Key work: Kindness.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2023, 05:43:13 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 04:26:56 PM

No after you fired shots across the bow, and truth stands no matter how many years later. And you stated They're not paid. so good to see you have math down stay away from social studies

I have no earthly clue what you're on about.  Are you okay?

I didn't realize simply stating school board members are normal people from the community and not under the umbrella of school employees was firing shots cross the bow.  How bizarre.

And they're not paid in AZ.  Where I live.  And in 88% of all states.  But somehow you "got me" there?  
Go see a doctor, bud.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 27, 2023, 06:10:01 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2023, 05:43:13 PM

And they're not paid in AZ.  Where I live.  And in 88% of all states.

They aren't?

This is an honest question, not trying to mix in this debate, this just surprised. 

For reference, in Ohio they are paid. To be fair the compensation is nominal for most. I *THINK* some very large districts have significant compensation but in Suburban districts like mine the compensation is nominal. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 27, 2023, 06:15:10 PM

FWIW, I've long said that School Board is a job I wouldn't wish on anyone. 

It is like being the long snapper. Nobody ever says "Our team is doing great because every time we need to punt that @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) puts the ball right in the punter's hands." People only ever talk about the long snapper when he launches one over the punter's head. School Board is the same way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 27, 2023, 06:28:08 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 27, 2023, 06:15:10 PM

FWIW, I've long said that School Board is a job I wouldn't wish on anyone.

It is like being the long snapper. Nobody ever says "Our team is doing great because every time we need to punt that @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) puts the ball right in the punter's hands." People only ever talk about the long snapper when he launches one over the punter's head. School Board is the same way.

That’s true, but you also have people screaming bloody murder about the perfectly acceptable snaps. I would not enjoy that job.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 27, 2023, 06:29:09 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 27, 2023, 03:11:11 PM

https://www.dailysignal.com/2023/08/14/exclusive-court-upholds-texas-dads-free-speech-claim-school-board-had-him-arrested/

Oooo, thank for reminding me about that. I’m interested to see how that falls from a First Amendment perspective. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 07:11:03 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2023, 05:43:13 PM

I have no earthly clue what you're on about.  Are you okay?

Listen you pop off make a blankett statement and eat your words and Florida pays their Boards - should have known that might explain why you left there. I'd like to invite some of the citizens in your community out there to read what kind of remarks their tax dollar gets them - what was that zip again?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 07:13:43 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 27, 2023, 06:10:01 PM

For reference, in Ohio they are paid. To be fair the compensation is nominal for most.

There is another one OBE WAN missed,might call my community and see what they make,nominal or not

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2023, 07:50:22 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 07:11:03 PM

Listen you pop off make a blankett statement and eat your words and Florida pays their Boards - should have known that might explain why you left there. I'd like to invite some of the citizens in your community out there to read what kind of remarks their tax dollar gets them - what was that zip again?

Something is obviously up your butt.  I don't know what it is, but I'm not the source.

If you feel vindicated that 6 states pay their school board members a nominal sum and that 44 don't pay anything, then that's on you.

You're conscientiously ignoring the actual (unremarkable) point.  Go pray or something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 09:09:10 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2023, 03:07:20 PM

Now I've seen it all.

And what would that be when you are done getting your knickers in a knot? you left this steaming pile by my post like it was obvious for all to see/understand. Even 320 asked what's your point,

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2023, 03:22:04 PM

Because some people out there are going to lump school boards in with teachers and principals and such, when we're separate entities.  They're not paid.  They're from the same pool of people who show up each month to bitch at them.

Then you leave this ornament,oh really what people?Men,woman,black,white,oriental,asian,hispanic..... would you like of list of professions,religions and salaries also. How about some data on demographics & specifics  but instead we get this carnival barking from your backside "we're separate entities.  They're not paid" a blanket bullshit statement would you like the link?.And then when that is pointed out You double down and present this gift hoping nobody noticed: Then list 6 states that pay their school board members, leading us to understand 44 don't?Are you frothing at the mouth?
No I'm scratching my head wondering why you stated NONE then all of a sudden there are 7 states - but somehow I'm confused - "conscientiously ignoring the actual (unremarkable) point".So it's unremarkable when you're wrong and busted?  You just failed your own composition - there weren't any caveats. So I am sure the school board doesn't want to be lumped with you that is ONE thing you got right but not for the reasons you think. Let's just keep that here lest they find out what a mushroom you really are - kept in the dark and fed a bunch of shit

And I get these comments from you - Are you frothing at the mouth? Are you okay?Go see a doctor, bud.

What other rare gems would you like to share with the congregation you poltroon? Should I pray the school board doesn't read your demented drivel?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2023, 09:30:50 PM

I post those questions because your reaction is absurd and extreme.  For an otherwise benign post, you're flipping out.

It doesn't compute.  You're bitching at me like your dog died or your wife left you.  It's fucking weird.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 09:35:55 PM

LMAO Twain was right - don't argue with an idiot,he'll drag you down to his level and win with experience. you're an ebola chimp that has found a poppy field and realizing hallucinations again. So precious when is the next board meeting,perhaps we can share your smashing new insights

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2023, 09:40:27 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 09:35:55 PM

LMAO Twain was right - don't argue with an idiot,he'll drag you down to his level and win with experience. you're an ebola chimp that has found a poppy field and realizing hallucinations again. So precious when is the next board meeting,perhaps we can share your smashing new insights

Am I the only one here finding his posts oddly severe?  Was my post about the make-up of school boards inflammatory or radical?  
I'm honestly mystified right now.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2023, 09:54:00 PM

What? oh you're so hopelessly misunderstood what could you possibly ever have said to provoke a similar response?
    (https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/720/647/9647720.gif) 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2023, 09:59:36 PM

You're obviously objective....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2023, 11:00:21 PM

Stop the madness please.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 27, 2023, 11:26:23 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on August 27, 2023, 06:28:08 PM

That’s true, but you also have people screaming bloody murder about the perfectly acceptable snaps. I would not enjoy that job.

Oh for sure.

You are dealing with people's kids so emotions are high. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on August 28, 2023, 12:20:36 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 27, 2023, 11:00:21 PM

Stop the madness please.

Not even March yet. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2023, 09:48:26 AM

Police departments and sheriff's offices across Minnesota that contract with school districts are reconsidering those relationships as concerns swirl over a new law restricting the use of force and restraints on students.

In some cases, that may mean the suspension of longstanding programs that use school resource officers.

"In some schools, school resource officers wear school attire," said Keith Ternes, a spokesman with the Anoka County Attorney's Office. "They may be wearing a polo with the school name on it. They occupy an office that is provided by the school."

Now with the new law, many law enforcement agencies may look for ways to minimize or eliminate formal associations with a school. That's because officers and even law enforcement agents providing security for sporting events fear they would open themselves up to lawsuits if they respond to criminal conduct with any kind of physical force.

Many agencies interpret the ban on restraints to mean that officers working in schools can respond only if they perceive an imminent threat of violence or death.

Meanwhile, police officers and sheriff's deputies on duty elsewhere — who have no contract with the school — won't be bound by those rules, effectively creating two sets of standards in responding to campus incidents.

"If they're acting as an agent of a school, the new legislative changes puts them in a position where in all practicality they have to remain hands-free," said Jeff Potts, executive director of the Minnesota Police Chiefs Association. "That's the rub."


https://m.startribune.com/fate-of-school-resource-officers-in-minnesota-up-in-air-police-still-respond-to-incidents/600300230/?clmob=y&c=n&clmob=y&c=n (https://m.startribune.com/fate-of-school-resource-officers-in-minnesota-up-in-air-police-still-respond-to-incidents/600300230/?clmob=y&c=n&clmob=y&c=n)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 28, 2023, 01:09:46 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 27, 2023, 06:10:01 PM

They aren't?

This is an honest question, not trying to mix in this debate, this just surprised.

For reference, in Ohio they are paid. To be fair the compensation is nominal for most. I *THINK* some very large districts have significant compensation but in Suburban districts like mine the compensation is nominal.

I served on our local school board for a couple of terms. Yes were were paid a nominal sum based on the number of board meetings in which we were in attendance. It worked out to about $1,000 per years of which I donated to the school booster club (of which I was also the President). 

As for protests, we would occasionally have an angry parent or other member of the community sign up to speak to an issue near and dear to their heart at our meetings. Sometimes, it didn't really even have anything to do with the school, but we gave them a few mins to speak and that generally made them feel better. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2023, 01:57:55 PM

Complaining to your school board won't get you in trouble, trespass obviously can, threats can, etc.  I knew several of the members of ours, they seemed like OK folks overall.  Nobody is going to call the police because a parent has a gripe.  And maybe somewhere there is a single exception.

So much gets distorted these days, but it generate interest and clicks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2023, 09:28:52 AM

CNN names former New York Times CEO Mark Thompson as its chief (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/30/warner-bros-discovery-names-mark-thompson-ceo-cnn.html)

Decades ago when I traveled a fair bit on business, CNN was my "go to" in the morning to listen to when getting dressed for the day.  It was a way to "keep up".  We didn't have much internet news, it was cable.  I have toured the CNN facility here a couple times, the first was pretty interesting.  There is a downtown street here renamed for Ted Turner.  Now it all seems to "yesterday".

The article above mentions cord cutting, a think we all know is going to be quite a shift overall.  I could see a day when watching CFB means paying for an Internet subscription rather than cable/sat.  and it's nearly all streamed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2023, 02:08:16 PM

Giuliani loses Georgia election worker defamation suit by default, judge rules | The Hill (https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4178903-giuliani-loses-georgia-election-worker-defamation-suit-by-default-judge-rules/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2023, 03:20:07 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/rea9tjJ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 30, 2023, 03:38:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 30, 2023, 03:20:07 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/rea9tjJ.png)

Some context might be nice...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 02, 2023, 02:40:06 AM

https://www.gofundme.com/f/urgent-help-the-stauth-family-battle-cancer

I doubt this is what we want posted here, but I have to share this all over the place.  He's my good friend in Vegas.  Football nerd like us.  Aside from his ailments, his family is in a pinch right now.  If you can donate or share with others who might, please do.

Sorry for posting, but I can't not exhaust my meager online presence for him.  
Thank you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2023, 08:38:03 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 02, 2023, 02:40:06 AM

https://www.gofundme.com/f/urgent-help-the-stauth-family-battle-cancer

I doubt this is what we want posted here, but I have to share this all over the place.  He's my good friend in Vegas.  Football nerd like us.  Aside from his ailments, his family is in a pinch right now.  If you can donate or share with others who might, please do.

Sorry for posting, but I can't not exhaust my meager online presence for him. 
Thank you.

Done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 02, 2023, 10:42:19 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 02, 2023, 02:40:06 AM

https://www.gofundme.com/f/urgent-help-the-stauth-family-battle-cancer

I doubt this is what we want posted here, but I have to share this all over the place.  He's my good friend in Vegas.  Football nerd like us.  Aside from his ailments, his family is in a pinch right now.  If you can donate or share with others who might, please do.

Sorry for posting, but I can't not exhaust my meager online presence for him. 
Thank you.

Complete👍

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 02, 2023, 10:49:49 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on September 02, 2023, 10:42:19 AM

Complete👍

All I can say is WOW!! That's huge brother.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 02, 2023, 12:40:15 PM

Thank you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 03, 2023, 12:24:28 PM

I have zero problem with a post asking for help for anyone somewhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 03, 2023, 03:14:40 PM

He doesn't have much time left, but his inability to work lately, it's imperative his wife and daughters are able to figure things out.
He's a great friend.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 03, 2023, 04:52:56 PM

Threw him a little. Maybe it's not much, but hope it helps. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 03, 2023, 04:56:23 PM

Hit the links today. OMG what a tale of two nines. 

Played the front +7. Nothing spectacular. Missed a few par save putts, but made a nice birdie putt on 3 and a nice par save putt on 4, and stuffed my 3rd shot on par-4 #6 to a foot and made an easy par. 

Then on the back... Holy smokes. I'd say the "wheels fell off" but it was more like I forgot that the wheel had even been invented. Played the back at +23(!). Literally halfway between double-bogey golf and triple-bogey golf. Every possible thing that could go wrong, did. Four balls OOB, and one in the drink. 

Terrible to feel competent for 9 holes and then feel like the worst duffer that's ever picked up a damn club for 9 holes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 03, 2023, 05:05:20 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 03, 2023, 04:56:23 PM

Hit the links today. OMG what a tale of two nines.

Played the front +7. Nothing spectacular. Missed a few par save putts, but made a nice birdie putt on 3 and a nice par save putt on 4, and stuffed my 3rd shot on par-4 #6 to a foot and made an easy par.

Then on the back... Holy smokes. I'd say the "wheels fell off" but it was more like I forgot that the wheel had even been invented. Played the back at +23(!). Literally halfway between double-bogey golf and triple-bogey golf. Every possible thing that could go wrong, did. Four balls OOB, and one in the drink.

Terrible to feel competent for 9 holes and then feel like the worst duffer that's ever picked up a damn club for 9 holes.

Been there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 04, 2023, 08:39:04 AM

that's golf

I'm going back out this morning
fingers crossed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 04, 2023, 08:41:03 AM

in other news............

my brother suckered me into NFL Fantasy football

Draft is tonight

any tips or a website I can trust just for a list of players I should draft?

otherwise I'll just go with ESPN.  I don't feel good about that

haven't been in a fantasy league in over 20 years

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 04, 2023, 08:42:41 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on September 03, 2023, 05:05:20 PM

Been there.

Know when to fold 'em. Head to the clubhouse after 9 and don't come back out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2023, 12:02:19 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 04, 2023, 08:41:03 AM

in other news............

my brother suckered me into NFL Fantasy football

Draft is tonight

any tips or a website I can trust just for a list of players I should draft?

otherwise I'll just go with ESPN.  I don't feel good about that

haven't been in a fantasy league in over 20 years

I like using a draft board like this: https://fantasyfootballcalculator.com/adp/ppr/12-team/all?view=draftboard

As the draft is going on, I mark off players who are taken with a sharpie. This allows me to see if there are any players who are falling too far on the draft board (i.e. we're in late round 5 and there's a player who is being taken early round 4 who hasn't gone off the board yet). 

Standard scoring or PPR? Assuming it's not a 2QB or superflex league, because that changes strategy significantly... Any weird scoring settings for the league? 

Here's your basic primer:

• Despite QB being the most important position in football, it's usually not all that important in fantasy (unless you're in a 2QB or superflex league). You can still take a QB early if it's one of the big ones (Mahomes/Hurts/Allen), shoot for mid-round if you get the right value, or pick it late and hope your WRs/RBs taken early can get you through average QB play. In fantasy, rushing QBs are overvalued relative to the NFL, so you'll see guys like Fields higher on the draft board than you'd probably think of them. 
• Defenses and kickers are useless. Punt them to the very end of the draft (last two rounds). If your draft system supports it (NFL.com allows this), you can even finish the draft without a defense/kicker and fill that in before this weekend's games. 
• Investigate your platforms IR spots, if the league uses them. Picking up a player who is currently injured or suspended but expected to come back and perform well (such as Alvin Kamara who is suspended) can be a sneaky strategy *especially* if you don't draft a defense or kicker. You can move those players to the IR spot once the draft is complete giving you more WR/RB depth. 
• The goal of every draft IMHO is depth at that WR and RB spot. That's where most of your points come from. Being able to sustain bye weeks and injuries is key. In most leagues you don't need a backup QB, backup TE, and never a backup defense or kicker, so load the hell out of the WR and RB spot.
• Strategy-wise, a growing popularity strategy is called "ZeroRB", especially in PPR leagues. It's basically hitting WR/QB/TE early (usually first 5-6 rounds to load those up) and then filling in mid-round RBs from there on. The idea is that it's easier to find RBs on the waiver wire through the season as other RBs get injured, than to find WRs there. I personally like ZeroRB, with one caveat--if you have one of the first few picks in the first round, it can be useful to use what's called "HeroRB" strategy, where you take a bell cow running back with your first pick and then pivot to WR/QB/TE. I had the 2nd pick in a draft Saturday and took McCaffrey, and then didn't take another RB until the 7th round. 

The biggest advice is to go into the draft not with "a list of players to draft", but more to think about roster construction, players you like (and what round you'd like them), and how the draft might fall to you based on draft order. The draft board link I provided helps with that more than a list as it's better visually IMHO. 

For example, my draft Saturday I was the 2nd pick in the first round, which meant I was the 11th pick in the second round. I was hoping that Mahomes/Hurts/Allen wouldn't all be gone at that point, because I like to have a top QB if I can. But they were gone, which meant that instead of panicking and taking a QB in the 2nd/3rd round, I knew I'd hold off until my picks in the 4th/5th. So I loaded up on WR with those 2nd/3rd picks. I was hoping for Herbert at the end of the 4th, but he was gone. Burrow was still there, so I got him. If both were gone, I would have given up on QB and planned to take one in the late rounds (8th-12th). 


Hope this helps. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2023, 12:28:50 PM

I stopped doing fantasy leagues when the no-sports nerd NASA guy in our group who only did it because the rest of us did won the league.
He let it autodraft for him and made no trades. 

There's no skill to it, there's so much noise in the system, that it becomes something fun, yet random.  Sort of like picking games played by 20 year olds.

You can work hard at it and turn knobs and pull levers every week....if you win, it's because you made the right moves.....if you don't, well at least you tried your best.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2023, 12:47:47 PM

Trump wouldn't be the first person to run for president from jail (msnbc.com) (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/trump-jail-2024-presidential-election-eugene-debs-rcna102249)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 04, 2023, 01:50:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 04, 2023, 12:47:47 PM

Trump wouldn't be the first person to run for president from jail (msnbc.com) (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/trump-jail-2024-presidential-election-eugene-debs-rcna102249)

just another hit piece posted by CD

good work

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2023, 02:01:26 PM

I found the history part interesting, to me.  I didn't see it as some "hit piece", but perhaps I missed that part.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 04, 2023, 02:05:40 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2023, 12:28:50 PM

I stopped doing fantasy leagues when the no-sports nerd NASA guy in our group who only did it because the rest of us did won the league.
He let it autodraft for him and made no trades. 

There's no skill to it, there's so much noise in the system, that it becomes something fun, yet random.  Sort of like picking games played by 20 year olds.

You can work hard at it and turn knobs and pull levers every week....if you win, it's because you made the right moves.....if you don't, well at least you tried your best. 

To me, this man is a hero. He is in some ways smarter than all of us, which makes sense with the NASA thing. It also speaks well to a quality auto draft set up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 04, 2023, 02:06:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 04, 2023, 02:01:26 PM

I found the history part interesting, to me.  I didn't see it as some "hit piece", but perhaps I missed that part.

one of MSNBCs best

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 04, 2023, 02:25:40 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 03, 2023, 04:56:23 PM

 Played the back at +23(!). Literally halfway between double-bogey golf and triple-bogey golf. Every possible thing that could go wrong, did. Four balls OOB, and one in the drink.

Terrible to feel competent for 9 holes and then feel like the worst duffer that's ever picked up a damn club for 9 holes.

Atta boy get your licks and some aerobics in don't let them short you. Prolly would have beat me by 10-15 stokes if I could flatter myself that much

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on September 04, 2023, 02:53:07 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on September 04, 2023, 02:05:40 PM

To me, this man is a hero. He is in some ways smarter than all of us, which makes sense with the NASA thing. It also speaks well to a quality auto draft set up.

None of us could beat AI at anything.

Actually my best fantasy football year ever was like 2001(?)  I was in high school, and was on a corporate retreat with my family.  Turned out we had no internet access, so I missed the draft.  So I got autodrafted for, and got Kurt Warner.  I hated it, so I traded him for a different QB, and the Bears defense thrown in, in a league that had 2 starting defense.  That was the year they kept scoring off turnovers.  I went undefeated with an autodrafted team, and trading Kurt Warner for the Bears defense and I think Aaron Brooks and AhmanGreen

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on September 04, 2023, 02:59:39 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 04, 2023, 02:01:26 PM

I found the history part interesting, to me.  I didn't see it as some "hit piece", but perhaps I missed that part.

Everything against your candidate is a hit piece now.  Makes it easier to swallow than to admit that maybe the top candidates are extremely comprimised

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 04, 2023, 03:01:39 PM

Quote from: ELA on September 04, 2023, 02:59:39 PM

Everything against your candidate is a hit piece now.  Makes it easier to swallow than to admit that maybe the top candidates are extremely comprimised

Look at ELA getting political

You have gone over to the dark side

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2023, 03:17:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2023, 12:28:50 PM

I stopped doing fantasy leagues when the no-sports nerd NASA guy in our group who only did it because the rest of us did won the league.
He let it autodraft for him and made no trades. 

There's no skill to it, there's so much noise in the system, that it becomes something fun, yet random.  Sort of like picking games played by 20 year olds.

You can work hard at it and turn knobs and pull levers every week....if you win, it's because you made the right moves.....if you don't, well at least you tried your best. 

To an extent, I think of it like poker. Skill is useful and it will tend to make you more successful over time, but the cards are out of your control and a bead beat can take you out in an instant. 

I'm typically at the top of my leagues, and can only count one time in the last decade where I missed the playoffs--and I was the top scoring team for most of that year and just kept catching other teams on their really good weeks. But getting the championship comes down to a LOT of luck. I recall in last year's championship game I was down 10 points going into MNF, with Stefon Diggs on my side and my opponent having someone from Cincy (don't recall who). I made up 5 of those 10 points on the opening drive. And then, well, Damar Hamlin happened. So I ended up taking second place. 

Skill gets you most of the way, but luck in a single-elimination playoff situation can knock you right back out. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on September 04, 2023, 03:25:37 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on September 04, 2023, 03:01:39 PM

Look at ELA getting political

You have gone over to the dark side

Nah, when Tucker Carlson releases something, it's slanted, but its not a "hit piece".  it's all true.  They are all dirty.  South Park was ahead of its time with the 2004 election satire.  It still holds true.  Actually championing anyone should disqualify someone from voting.  At best you have to figure out which one makes you hold your nose the least when you pull the lever

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on September 04, 2023, 03:28:31 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2023, 03:17:26 PM

To an extent, I think of it like poker. Skill is useful and it will tend to make you more successful over time, but the cards are out of your control and a bead beat can take you out in an instant.

I'm typically at the top of my leagues, and can only count one time in the last decade where I missed the playoffs--and I was the top scoring team for most of that year and just kept catching other teams on their really good weeks. But getting the championship comes down to a LOT of luck. I recall in last year's championship game I was down 10 points going into MNF, with Stefon Diggs on my side and my opponent having someone from Cincy (don't recall who). I made up 5 of those 10 points on the opening drive. And then, well, Damar Hamlin happened. So I ended up taking second place.

Skill gets you most of the way, but luck in a single-elimination playoff situation can knock you right back out.

That's a good take.  My firm used to do poker nights, and initially we had enough takers for multiple tables.  I don't like poker, but if the partners are doing a poker night, you do the poker night.  I made it to the main table the first time, and made it to the final 4.  Sometimes you get good cards, and good breaks.  But over time, you will lose.  I lost everything every game after that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 04, 2023, 03:31:41 PM

Quote from: ELA on September 04, 2023, 03:25:37 PM

Nah, when Tucker Carlson releases something, it's slanted, but its not a "hit piece".  it's all true.  They are all dirty.  South Park was ahead of its time with the 2004 election satire.  It still holds true.  Actually championing anyone should disqualify someone from voting.  At best you have to figure out which one makes you hold your nose the least when you pull the lever

+1

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2023, 03:41:06 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on September 04, 2023, 02:05:40 PM

To me, this man is a hero. He is in some ways smarter than all of us, which makes sense with the NASA thing. It also speaks well to a quality auto draft set up.

He didn't set anything up.  He simply recognized that he knew nothing about football and didn't get in the way of the computer.
And he didn't edit his team during the season.
If that wins you the league, the entire exercise is simply a fun activity to keep you busy.  It's not actually a skill-based competition.
Some of you might be thinking "duh" with the last part there, but sorry, if we're keeping score, I want to win.  If I win, I want it to be based on what I did, not a random outcome of 73 different variables out of my control.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2023, 03:45:07 PM

Poker is pretty easy when playing with friends and colleagues.  Just don't bluff.  Be in when you have good cards, be out when you don't.
Let everyone else bluff
Let everyone else make their hand on the river.
Let everyone else follow hunches.

You will come out ahead every time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on September 04, 2023, 03:50:11 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2023, 03:45:07 PM

Poker is pretty easy when playing with friends and colleagues.  Just don't bluff.  Be in when you have good cards, be out when you don't.
Let everyone else bluff
Let everyone else make their hand on the river.
Let everyone else follow hunches.

You will come out ahead every time.

Problem is two of my colleagues were in Vegas for the WSOP

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2023, 03:52:45 PM

Quote from: ELA on September 04, 2023, 03:50:11 PM

Problem is two of my colleagues were in Vegas for the WSOP

As in they're really good or as in they had disposable income?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 04, 2023, 03:57:29 PM

Quote from: ELA on September 04, 2023, 03:50:11 PM

Problem is two of my colleagues were in Vegas for the WSOP

as the song says every hand is a loser and every hand is a winner

the challenge is not to bluff but to decide which one your hand is

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on September 04, 2023, 04:00:37 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2023, 03:52:45 PM

As in they're really good or as in they had disposable income?

Both.

Both are single, love it, and get really pissed when they play with me and I fly by the seat of my pants

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2023, 04:28:07 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2023, 03:41:06 PM

He didn't set anything up.  He simply recognized that he knew nothing about football and didn't get in the way of the computer.
And he didn't edit his team during the season.
If that wins you the league, the entire exercise is simply a fun activity to keep you busy.  It's not actually a skill-based competition.
Some of you might be thinking "duh" with the last part there, but sorry, if we're keeping score, I want to win.  If I win, I want it to be based on what I did, not a random outcome of 73 different variables out of my control.

Aren't you the one who says we shouldn't try to justify our opinions based on anecdote? :57:

The odds are the odds, but smart management over the course of a season can stack those odds in your favor. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 04, 2023, 05:46:31 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2023, 12:02:19 PM

I like using a draft board like this: https://fantasyfootballcalculator.com/adp/ppr/12-team/all?view=draftboard

As the draft is going on, I mark off players who are taken with a sharpie. This allows me to see if there are any players who are falling too far on the draft board (i.e. we're in late round 5 and there's a player who is being taken early round 4 who hasn't gone off the board yet).

Standard scoring or PPR? Assuming it's not a 2QB or superflex league, because that changes strategy significantly... Any weird scoring settings for the league?

Here's your basic primer:

• Despite QB being the most important position in football, it's usually not all that important in fantasy (unless you're in a 2QB or superflex league). You can still take a QB early if it's one of the big ones (Mahomes/Hurts/Allen), shoot for mid-round if you get the right value, or pick it late and hope your WRs/RBs taken early can get you through average QB play. In fantasy, rushing QBs are overvalued relative to the NFL, so you'll see guys like Fields higher on the draft board than you'd probably think of them.
• Defenses and kickers are useless. Punt them to the very end of the draft (last two rounds). If your draft system supports it (NFL.com allows this), you can even finish the draft without a defense/kicker and fill that in before this weekend's games.
• Investigate your platforms IR spots, if the league uses them. Picking up a player who is currently injured or suspended but expected to come back and perform well (such as Alvin Kamara who is suspended) can be a sneaky strategy *especially* if you don't draft a defense or kicker. You can move those players to the IR spot once the draft is complete giving you more WR/RB depth.
• The goal of every draft IMHO is depth at that WR and RB spot. That's where most of your points come from. Being able to sustain bye weeks and injuries is key. In most leagues you don't need a backup QB, backup TE, and never a backup defense or kicker, so load the hell out of the WR and RB spot.
• Strategy-wise, a growing popularity strategy is called "ZeroRB", especially in PPR leagues. It's basically hitting WR/QB/TE early (usually first 5-6 rounds to load those up) and then filling in mid-round RBs from there on. The idea is that it's easier to find RBs on the waiver wire through the season as other RBs get injured, than to find WRs there. I personally like ZeroRB, with one caveat--if you have one of the first few picks in the first round, it can be useful to use what's called "HeroRB" strategy, where you take a bell cow running back with your first pick and then pivot to WR/QB/TE. I had the 2nd pick in a draft Saturday and took McCaffrey, and then didn't take another RB until the 7th round.

The biggest advice is to go into the draft not with "a list of players to draft", but more to think about roster construction, players you like (and what round you'd like them), and how the draft might fall to you based on draft order. The draft board link I provided helps with that more than a list as it's better visually IMHO.

For example, my draft Saturday I was the 2nd pick in the first round, which meant I was the 11th pick in the second round. I was hoping that Mahomes/Hurts/Allen wouldn't all be gone at that point, because I like to have a top QB if I can. But they were gone, which meant that instead of panicking and taking a QB in the 2nd/3rd round, I knew I'd hold off until my picks in the 4th/5th. So I loaded up on WR with those 2nd/3rd picks. I was hoping for Herbert at the end of the 4th, but he was gone. Burrow was still there, so I got him. If both were gone, I would have given up on QB and planned to take one in the late rounds (8th-12th).


Hope this helps.

thanks

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 04, 2023, 07:03:05 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2023, 03:41:06 PM

He didn't set anything up.  He simply recognized that he knew nothing about football and didn't get in the way of the computer.
And he didn't edit his team during the season.
If that wins you the league, the entire exercise is simply a fun activity to keep you busy.  It's not actually a skill-based competition.
Some of you might be thinking "duh" with the last part there, but sorry, if we're keeping score, I want to win.  If I win, I want it to be based on what I did, not a random outcome of 73 different variables out of my control.

I meant that some auto drafts will fill out lineups weirdly. Like they will draft three quarterbacks or no kickers or something.

And when you say didn’t edit his team, I assume you mean he did not engage in the waiver wire or anything. Obviously he did tinker with his team some.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2023, 08:07:19 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2023, 04:28:07 PM

Aren't you the one who says we shouldn't try to justify our opinions based on anecdote? :57:

The odds are the odds, but smart management over the course of a season can stack those odds in your favor.

Of course.

But I was explaining one reason I stopped doing fantasy football.  There are other reasons.  I was sharing an anecdote, not expecting an anecdote to convince someone not to play.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on September 04, 2023, 08:35:41 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2023, 03:45:07 PM

Poker is pretty easy when playing with friends and colleagues.  Just don't bluff.  Be in when you have good cards, be out when you don't.
Let everyone else bluff
Let everyone else make their hand on the river.
Let everyone else follow hunches.

You will come out ahead every time.

Pretty much my strategy with a couple caveats. Bluff occasionally. Because if you don’t, they know you’ll only go deep with a good hand. If you do bluff, be prepared to lose big. If you win a bluff hand, show ‘‘em sometimes. So they know you were bluffing. Got to keep them guessing once in awhile. And sometimes nothing turns into something. I’d say I won my fair share of games with friends , maybe a little more. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2023, 09:31:31 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 04, 2023, 08:07:19 PM

Of course.

But I was explaining one reason I stopped doing fantasy football.  There are other reasons.  I was sharing an anecdote, not expecting an anecdote to convince someone not to play.

Yes, but the only evidence you offered for it being entirely luck-based and not being a skill-based endeavor was anecdotal. You said:

Quote

If that wins you the league, the entire exercise is simply a fun activity to keep you busy.  It's not actually a skill-based competition.

But now you want to be "well, that's not exactly what I meant, and I can't explain EVERYTHING to you dolts, so I'm going to justify that my actual position was evidential and not anecdotal so there!"

Uh huh. 

I guess with the 10+ FF leagues I've played over the last decade, the fact that I've only missed the playoffs in one of them, won the league in several, and finished runner-up or 3rd place in a few more, must mean I'm the luckiest SOB in the world, huh? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 04, 2023, 09:35:19 PM

Quote from: ELA on September 04, 2023, 03:50:11 PM

Problem is two of my colleagues were in Vegas for the WSOP

They bluff don't listen to man behind the curtain 😎. USE to watch Norm Chad when that 1st came out on ESPiN yrs back

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 04, 2023, 09:37:00 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2023, 09:31:31 PM

I guess with the 10+ FF leagues I've played over the last decade, the fact that I've only missed the playoffs in one of them, won the league in several, and finished runner-up or 3rd place in a few more, must mean I'm the luckiest SOB in the world, huh?

Rather be lucky than good where is this ouija board you consult?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 04, 2023, 09:48:03 PM

Quote from: ELA on September 04, 2023, 03:25:37 PM

 At best you have to figure out which one makes you hold your nose the least when you pull the lever

Just got an idea - trap doors 😈 shanghai the opposing voters 😎 thanx for the heads up counsel Jalen Watts-Jackson would be proud of you. You get a Yuengling 🥂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 05, 2023, 01:37:48 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2023, 09:31:31 PM

Yes, but the only evidence you offered for it being entirely luck-based and not being a skill-based endeavor was anecdotal. You said:



But now you want to be "well, that's not exactly what I meant, and I can't explain EVERYTHING to you dolts, so I'm going to justify that my actual position was evidential and not anecdotal so there!"

Uh huh.

I guess with the 10+ FF leagues I've played over the last decade, the fact that I've only missed the playoffs in one of them, won the league in several, and finished runner-up or 3rd place in a few more, must mean I'm the luckiest SOB in the world, huh?

I don't know why you're acting like this is a "gotcha."  
My anecdote could be considered under the topic of luck vs skill, but was shared as one reason I don't play fantasy football anymore.

Why are you suggesting it's more than that?  
The criticisms I get here baffle me most times.  

Why you've consistently done well could be due to any number of reasons.  You could be spending 20% more time on it week to week than other people.  You may check on it more often or have more time to kill or pay attention to the scoring system more carefully.
There's dozens of reasons people do well or don't do well at anything, including fantasy football.


My friend winning with no knowledge of football could have simply been the last straw.  I don't really remember, because it was 100 years ago.

But your angling that I'm hypocritical is fucking weird.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 05, 2023, 08:07:32 AM

I have no idea what you guys are talking about.

No gambling for me. 

I played fantasy one or two years here, when ELA (AAA back then) used to run a league and didn't know WTF I was doing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 05, 2023, 08:37:46 AM

my brother, the commish, decided I could pick last as to not seem like preference

not a great draft for me, but you don't know until you play the games

took a gamble on Cooper Kupp, hope he can play

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 05, 2023, 09:24:15 AM

Good lord can you goobers start a Fantasy Football Dorks thread already??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 05, 2023, 11:50:13 AM

I remember on Cheers when the waitress won the NFL pools picking by team color.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 05, 2023, 01:05:17 PM

Quote from: utee94 on September 05, 2023, 09:24:15 AM

Good lord can you goobers start a Fantasy Football Dorks thread already??

Don't tempt me to post a recap every week of how my fantasy teams did. 

You already know I don't really follow Purdue any more. 

I've got the time. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 05, 2023, 01:27:07 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 05, 2023, 01:05:17 PM

Don't tempt me to post a recap every week of how my fantasy teams did.

You already know I don't really follow Purdue any more.

I've got the time.

Reminds me of that period of time around 2003-2008 or so, when online poker had become huge and there were dozens of poker shows on TV.  All of a sudden people who'd never heard the words "no limit hold 'em" were recounting their previous evening's winnings with tremendous drama on the flop or the river.  A bunch of instantaneous poker experts, these schmoes were.

Made me want to cut my eardrums out with a spoon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 05, 2023, 11:57:55 PM

The masses and their fads.  Sheep.  Baaa aaa baaa.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 06, 2023, 12:03:40 AM

Quote from: utee94 on September 05, 2023, 09:24:15 AM

Good lord can you goobers start a Fantasy Football Dorks thread already??

you found us

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on September 06, 2023, 09:23:48 AM

Would be a good nomination for the Darwin award.


https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-man-arrested-coast-guard-trying-cross-atlantic-human-sized-hamster-wheel (https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-man-arrested-coast-guard-trying-cross-atlantic-human-sized-hamster-wheel)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 06, 2023, 09:40:14 AM

Florida Man!

(https://i.imgur.com/5rYGWCm.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 06, 2023, 10:01:06 AM

least it wasn't Nebraska Man...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIR3NU3P_bU

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on September 06, 2023, 10:27:05 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on September 06, 2023, 10:01:06 AM

least it wasn't Nebraska Man...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIR3NU3P_bU

That's how I feel every time I fly in coach.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 06, 2023, 10:29:44 AM

You're too tall to fly in coach. Premium economy at a minimum.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on September 06, 2023, 11:39:50 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 06, 2023, 10:29:44 AM

You're too tall to fly in coach. Premium economy at a minimum.

For overseas trips, absolutely yes. Oddly enough, when we flew to Jeju on a Korea Air A330, the coach seat was quite large. 

Ever since Northwest/Delta stopped flying widebodies on domestic routes I've had to be stuffed into 757 seats for the last 20 years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 08, 2023, 09:06:46 PM

https://youtu.be/qw6aWbXL5Mc

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 09, 2023, 08:37:46 AM

The Feynman Lectures on Physics Audio Collection

These are the tape recordings of Richard Feynman's 1961-64 Caltech Introductory Physics lectures, which form the basis of the book The Feynman Lectures on Physics. The original recordings were made on 1/4" reel-to-reel tapes, now preserved in Caltech's Archive. In 2010 the entire collection was digitized by media preservationist George Blood.

https://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/flptapes.html (https://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/flptapes.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 09, 2023, 11:20:10 AM

Those are amazing 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 09, 2023, 12:16:23 PM

Went to Buffalo Wild Wing for lunch yesterday. Ended up that the kids and I all had lunch specials, which were not ridiculous, but I looked at the prices for wings when not on lunch special. 

10 wings for $20.49. 

WTF? 

Is this just super-high CA prices, or are y'all paying $2+ per wing where you live? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 09, 2023, 12:26:51 PM

super-high CA prices

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 09, 2023, 01:11:39 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 09, 2023, 12:16:23 PM

Went to Buffalo Wild Wing for lunch yesterday. Ended up that the kids and I all had lunch specials, which were not ridiculous, but I looked at the prices for wings when not on lunch special.

10 wings for $20.49.

WTF?

Is this just super-high CA prices, or are y'all paying $2+ per wing where you live?

They are pricey around here,prolly not that high tho.Haven't went in there 7-8 yrs product for the price just didn't shake out

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 09, 2023, 01:32:02 PM

Wings are like $1 each here at Wingstop. 

Gone are the days of 30 or 50-cent wings or all-you-can-eat.  Thank god for AYCE wins in high school, lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on September 10, 2023, 07:33:06 AM

Ugh. Buffalo Wild Wings. Doesn’t agree with my constitution. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 10, 2023, 07:44:55 AM

nuttin wrong with beer, wings and giant screens with sports

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 10, 2023, 10:02:43 AM

Quote from: Gigem on September 10, 2023, 07:33:06 AM

Ugh. Buffalo Wild Wings. Doesn’t agree with my constitution.

I'm not a big fan, either.  The wings are fine, but their boneless wings and other chicken has way too much breading. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 10, 2023, 10:07:39 AM

The Korean Fried Chicken place near us has the best wings I've ever had.  Other than that, I'm not much of a fan.  It's a way to sell a byproduct in effect at great upcharge.

My buddy and I went to a nearby sports bar to watch UGA last week and Ohio State, I had a Rueben which was tolerable but greasy and three beers.  I generally don't like sports bar food.  

In other news, I took my step son and his GF and my wife to a high end restaurant here on Thursday and the tab was over $700.  They claimed it was good.  Dinner alone is $110 fixed and two bottles of wine and tip ...  at least he's a really neat fellow.  He works for that fruit company in CA but told me another tech outfit offered him a job with total comp at a cool mil, so maybe he can take us out when we're visiting them.  He was consulting me as to whether he should take it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 10, 2023, 10:09:25 AM

Yeah, the meal was underwhelming. When combined with expensive, it's not a place I'll be likely to go again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 10, 2023, 10:18:16 AM

Around here, the two of us can dine nicely for $100 or so, the wine is why it's that high.  Wine prices are killer at decent places, the cheapest is usually $40 for something that retails for $15.  If we go out, it's usually for lunch which is cheaper but still pricey.  I really hate spending $16 for two at McDs if we're on the road.

Inflation.

~???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 10, 2023, 10:58:52 AM

My wife wants to go to France in Feb.  A flight from here to Marseille is $1219 in comfort, not bad, a flight from here to Paris same dates and seats is $1340. 

The flight to Marseille changes planes in Paris ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 10, 2023, 11:44:39 AM

We're looking at Ireland next year. Either late spring (May) or early fall (Sept)...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 10, 2023, 11:59:50 AM

We're doing a cruise around the UK in October with stops in Ireland.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 10, 2023, 12:26:06 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 10, 2023, 10:18:16 AM

Inflation.

~???

I just paid over $200 for a battery in the 2017 Impala

installed it myself

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 10, 2023, 12:30:58 PM

Ouch, I have not bought a battery in a long time, decades.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 10, 2023, 02:07:52 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 10, 2023, 12:26:06 PM

I just paid over $200 for a battery in the 2017 Impala

installed it myself

Yup, the most recent battery for our Jeep Wrangler woulda been $279 new.  With warranty/core exchange it was only $80, but still...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 10, 2023, 02:08:42 PM

warranty won't help me but I will get the core

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 10, 2023, 03:41:11 PM

seems like just 5 years ago they were about $120

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 10, 2023, 03:43:52 PM

3-4 years ago I paid $150 for the battery in my truck but, that was installed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 10, 2023, 04:40:50 PM

Seriously? Batteries have jumped that much? 

Thankfully I haven't had to buy one for a while, but I think it was maybe 3-4 years ago and they were definitely <$100. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 10, 2023, 05:27:14 PM

Batteries were not under $100 3-4 years ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 10, 2023, 05:39:14 PM

Hmm. Looking at my local AutoZone online, the lowest-price battery for my 2009 Jeep Wrangler would be 89.99. One step up is 129.99. Both of those are brands I've never heard of... Gotta go up 179/189 for AC Delco or Duralast.

For the 2014 Ford Flex, it's the same price points and brands. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on September 11, 2023, 10:32:23 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 10, 2023, 07:44:55 AM

nuttin wrong with beer, wings and giant screens with sports

The Buffalo Wild Wings not too far from me in the Phoenix area is a Ohio State Bar. Every Saturday a large gathering of transplanted Buckeyes have Beer, Wings and Giant Screen with the BUckeyes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on September 11, 2023, 10:34:48 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 10, 2023, 11:59:50 AM

We're doing a cruise around the UK in October with stops in Ireland.

We are doing a cruise in the Eastern Mediterrean in October than going up to Ireland, England and Paris after before flying back. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 11, 2023, 10:52:19 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on September 11, 2023, 10:34:48 AM

We are doing a cruise in the Eastern Mediterrean in October than going up to Ireland, England and Paris after before flying back.

Im doing a trip to Giddings and buying a case of beer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 12, 2023, 09:42:23 AM

One of the neat features around here is the Beltline, a 23 mile loop around downtown that used to be railroad beds, now converted simply to a concrete path.  It has sparked a ton of development near it, and is very crowded on weekends and well used on weekdays by folks walking, jogging, riding bikes, whatever.  Now there are plans to put a street car on parts of it, which concerns me unless they leave room for the path itself somehow.  The current streetcar is barely used and goes nowhere, so the extension might make it more usable, dunno, but I fear losing what made the Beltline a thing.  In places there doesn't seem to be room for two streetcar lines and the path.  The streetcar concept, to me, is not a very good one.

BeltLine launches study for nearly 14 miles of transit around loop | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/beltline-study-nearly-14-miles-transit-around-loop-rail-buses)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 12, 2023, 11:43:16 AM

Student housing ain't what it used to be ....

29 images: Deluxe student tower debuts near Centennial Olympic Park | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/downtown-tower-images-deluxe-student-housing-debuts-near-centennial-olympic-park)

The apartments are being marketed as “lavish” and examples of the “ultimate comfort” in downtown high-rise living, with floorplans ranging from one to five bedrooms. Amenities in the building include a zero-edge pool and heated spa (both situated next to a Jumbotron television), a fitness center and yoga studio, a multi-sport simulator, sky-high fire pits, and a game room.
According to promotional materials, all one-bedroom options in the building (ranging from 471 to 573 square feet) have been claimed by renters.
Meanwhile, five-bedroom units start at $1,255 per month—and that’s per person/bed. The largest five-bedroom option, at 2,026 square feet, is called the Fulham. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 12, 2023, 12:17:32 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 10, 2023, 05:27:14 PM

Batteries were not under $100 3-4 years ago.

I paid $95 for the Interstate battery in my Benz in 2019. I know I'll need one soon with the extreme heat, so I've priced them out.

$265 if I do it myself.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 12, 2023, 12:23:24 PM

Why Are Car Batteries So Expensive? - Modded (https://modded.com/cars/why-are-car-batteries-so-expensive/)

Ours is original, so 5+ years old now, I'll probably have it changed in January with the oil.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 12, 2023, 12:27:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 12, 2023, 12:23:24 PM

Why Are Car Batteries So Expensive? - Modded (https://modded.com/cars/why-are-car-batteries-so-expensive/)

Ours is original, so 5+ years old now, I'll probably have it changed in January with the oil.

I don't do proactive battery swaps. I wait for a failure. 

Granted I have the advantage that we have three vehicles and hell, I could easily walk to and from Autozone (from even with a heavy-ass battery in my arms) because it's like 1/4 mi away. 

Is it typical for people to proactively swap out a battery that hasn't yet failed? I hadn't heard of people doing this...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 12, 2023, 12:33:58 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 10, 2023, 05:27:14 PM

Batteries were not under $100 3-4 years ago.

A few years ago, I had to replace my lawn tractor battery. It was in the neighborhood of $40 -$45. I then had to replace it this spring and it was $120. I also need to replace the battery in my 4-wheeler that a few years back (6 or 7) was about $60. It is now $180. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 12, 2023, 12:51:09 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 12, 2023, 12:27:03 PM

I don't do proactive battery swaps. I wait for a failure.

Granted I have the advantage that we have three vehicles and hell, I could easily walk to and from Autozone (from even with a heavy-ass battery in my arms) because it's like 1/4 mi away.

Is it typical for people to proactively swap out a battery that hasn't yet failed? I hadn't heard of people doing this...

Not me (anymore). M-B's have a backup battery, and the car tells you when the main battery fails.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 12, 2023, 12:53:51 PM

My GTI will be almost 6 years old by January.  How much longer might the battery last?  Seven years?  Maybe, and maybe by then I'll be an unhappy SAV owner.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 12, 2023, 12:56:13 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 12, 2023, 12:27:03 PM

I don't do proactive battery swaps. I wait for a failure.

Granted I have the advantage that we have three vehicles and hell, I could easily walk to and from Autozone (from even with a heavy-ass battery in my arms) because it's like 1/4 mi away.

Is it typical for people to proactively swap out a battery that hasn't yet failed? I hadn't heard of people doing this...

Pretty sure I've never had a battery last 5 years. Not in this environment.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 12, 2023, 12:57:40 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 12, 2023, 12:53:51 PM

My GTI will be almost 6 years old by January.  How much longer might the battery last?  Seven years?  Maybe, and maybe by then I'll be an unhappy SAV owner.

I think given that it sounds like you don't drive much, and that your car is in a temperate parking garage and not regularly exposed to extreme heat or cold, that you might expect it to last more than a typical driver who is taking a LOT of trips, particularly short trips and therefore cranking the engine constantly, and parks it out in the hot summer sun or on cold winter nights often. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 12, 2023, 01:03:33 PM

My F-250 is a 2016 with the original battery and is showing no signs of needing replaced. Granted I don't drive often, less than 5000 miles per year. But the truck sits outside all year experiencing extreme cold and warms summers. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 12, 2023, 01:06:28 PM

I take it to the dealer for oil changes (once a year), I suspect they check it.

I hardly ever open the hood.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 12, 2023, 01:20:55 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 12, 2023, 12:27:03 PM

I don't do proactive battery swaps. I wait for a failure.

Granted I have the advantage that we have three vehicles and hell, I could easily walk to and from Autozone (from even with a heavy-ass battery in my arms) because it's like 1/4 mi away.

Is it typical for people to proactively swap out a battery that hasn't yet failed? I hadn't heard of people doing this...

I didn’t know there was another option besides driving it until it failed, jumping it two to three times and finally accepting that I need to replace it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 12, 2023, 01:27:13 PM

The core charge was $16
Bullshit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 12, 2023, 01:27:52 PM

Back when I did my own maintenance, I'd change the battery proactively after six years or so.  They didn't cost much then.  I kept my cars a long time, not so much of late though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 12, 2023, 01:32:34 PM

I've always waited for the battery to fail. 
I carry jumper cables 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 12, 2023, 01:58:16 PM

HA! great minds and all that. Crap the new vehicles you need blueprints to find the damn thing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 12, 2023, 02:07:14 PM

An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 12, 2023, 03:11:30 PM

Wondering why new car batteries cost so much? Here’s the reason and how to save (news4jax.com) (https://www.news4jax.com/money/2021/11/24/wondering-why-new-car-batteries-cost-so-much-heres-the-reason-and-how-to-save/)

You probably grew up with a battery such as a lead-acid, or “flooded,” battery. But many new cars now come with absorbed glass mat (AGM) batteries. Some lead-acid batteries have been enhanced with advanced materials and design, but the other type, AGM batteries, use a glass mat separator to allow an electrolyte solution to move between the thin battery plates. It makes them well-suited to repeated draining and recharging.

Why are carmakers using these new and more expensive batteries? Today’s high-tech cars need more electrical power. As vehicle technology evolves, cars need more and more electric power to operate features such as today’s stop/start technology, safety and convenience features, and all the additional power outlets that charge our devices.

Not surprisingly, these enhanced batteries also come with an enhanced price tag. AGM batteries can cost between $200 and $300, twice as much as traditional lead-acid batteries, so you want to make sure you’re buying one that will last.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 12, 2023, 06:13:32 PM

My battery was a 2016 in a 2017 impala.

Enhanced???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 12, 2023, 08:36:23 PM

I can't jump other people in my car.  Freakin' battery is halfway up under the dashboard.

Reason 49283834294 I miss my Jeep.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 13, 2023, 07:22:29 AM

Chevy truck and Chevy impala are up on top and easily accessible for jumping or replacing 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on September 13, 2023, 09:27:11 AM

My Subaru has the battery behind the headlight assembly, where it can be easily jumped.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 13, 2023, 09:33:48 AM

I read in my car's manual a while back that they should NOT be jumped.  This was the CTS not the GTI.  I presume an inadvertent spark could knock out some electronics.

The order in attaching cables is important of course and some folks don't know it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on September 13, 2023, 10:04:56 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 12, 2023, 08:36:23 PM

I can't jump other people in my car.  Freakin' battery is halfway up under the dashboard.

Reason 49283834294 I miss my Jeep.

I guess that means you can't be jumped either if the battery dies?  Yikes.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: LetsGoPeay on September 13, 2023, 01:21:09 PM

I had a Chevy Traverse where the battery was in the floor behind the front passenger seat. It was a tremendous pain to access and even worse to replace for someone with big hands like me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 13, 2023, 01:28:19 PM

Which car has the worst battery location? : r/Justrolledintotheshop (reddit.com) (https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/comments/ferdz9/which_car_has_the_worst_battery_location/)

(https://i.imgur.com/uxBdmOM.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 13, 2023, 01:30:36 PM

The second way is the battery can go bad while supplying a slow decline of voltage. This results in slow than normal engine cranking sound that you will notice in the morning or after the car has been sitting for a long period of time. Once you notice this it's up to you to be preventive and change the battery before total failure occurs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 13, 2023, 02:04:28 PM

Music Midtown – Sept. 15-17, 2023 | Piedmont Park | Atlanta, GA (https://www.musicmidtown.com/)

My age is showing.  My wife and I strolled through the park today and I was ASTONISHED at how much is being constructed, a number of enormous sets and stages all around.  There was even a ferris wheel, probably more rides we didn't see.  It was a real mess, and we have various street closures this weekend all around us.  And the basic ticket is $280.

My wife took some photos, I'll see if I can post a few.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 13, 2023, 02:13:23 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/OYYEpuF.jpg)

The tall black thing upper right is temporary staging also.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 13, 2023, 02:13:54 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/zfYR9wc.jpg)

Another stage half a mile distant.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 13, 2023, 02:14:22 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/7kXhoyb.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 13, 2023, 02:14:53 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/79v82Wj.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 13, 2023, 02:32:46 PM

Do these groups play at the same time?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 13, 2023, 02:37:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 13, 2023, 02:32:46 PM

Do these groups play at the same time?

If they do, then those stages are all WAY too close together.  We do a ton of music festivals here in Austin, the biggest one being the ACL Fest, and the stages are MUCH more spread out than that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 13, 2023, 02:39:43 PM

My guess, they set up on one while another plays.  There are two more large stages being built a ways away.

19115460285332 (2048×1365) (musicmidtown.com) (https://support.musicmidtown.com/hc/article_attachments/19115460285332)

I have a feeling my ears will be ringing all weekend.  There was a long line of portapotties already in place.

They have had 300,000 people in past years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on September 13, 2023, 04:09:11 PM

Batteries & Tires don't last here in Phoenix.  Another good reason to trade in a lease every 3 years

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 13, 2023, 09:56:06 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on September 13, 2023, 04:09:11 PM

Batteries & Tires don't last here in Phoenix.  Another good reason to trade in a lease every 3 years

Neither do windshields.
In their wisdom, they lined every major highway with tiny pebbles.  On purpose.  Cars driving 70 mph with pebbles flying at you.  
it's a racket.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 14, 2023, 09:32:39 AM

From the NYT today:

Google certainly looks like a monopoly by many measures. More than 90 percent of web searches worldwide are done on Google.

This level of dominance can create problems for anybody who isn’t a Google executive or shareholder. The company is so profitable that it can shape government policies through lobbying and donations. Google can potentially hold down wages for anybody who wants to work in internet search: Where else is that person going to go? Google can also essentially force consumers to turn over their personal data to the company; to exist in today’s economy, you need to interact with Google’s various services, like search, Gmail, Google Cloud and YouTube.

“For the past decade, Google and other tech giants have become incredibly powerful and entwined in just about every aspect of our lives,” Cecilia Kang, one of the Times reporters covering the Google trial, told me.

The Justice Department’s case against the company (and a related lawsuit brought by 38 states and territories) argues that Google has unfairly maintained its dominance by paying other companies billions of dollars a year. Payments to Apple, for example, are the reason that Google is the default search engine on iPhones. As a result, the Justice Department says, competitors to Google cannot establish themselves.

Google responds that its success is simply a reflection of the quality of its products. “People don’t use Google because they have to,” Kent Walker, Google’s top lawyer, has written. “They use it because they want to.”

The government’s biggest challenge in winning this case is closely connected to Bork’s framework for antitrust policy. He argued that the most rigorous standard for judging potential monopolies was consumer prices. Only when economic analysis proved that a company was so powerful that it could raise consumer prices should regulators step in, Bork and his allies said. Otherwise, the government was just guessing about when a company was so big as to be problematic.

Who benefits?

Google, of course, charges consumers nothing for its main products. The company makes money in other ways, such as advertisements. The same dynamic exists elsewhere in the technology industry. Facebook does not charge consumers for an account, either. Amazon does charge for products on its site, but often not any more than other retailers.

In recent years, a rising generation of legal scholars has tried to overturn the Bork consensus by arguing that large companies can still do damage even without increasing prices. They can hold down wages, warp government policy, trample on privacy or spread misinformation.

(One member of this rising generation is Lina Khan (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/newsletter/wasaeQX021ekOqv_UhW8Jg~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRm5Ws8P0TtaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMjAxOC8wOS8wNy90ZWNobm9sb2d5L21vbm9wb2x5LWFudGl0cnVzdC1saW5hLWtoYW4tYW1hem9uLmh0bWw_Y2FtcGFpZ25faWQ9OSZlbWM9ZWRpdF9ubl8yMDIzMDkxNCZpbnN0YW5jZV9pZD0xMDI3MTMmbmw9dGhlLW1vcm5pbmcmcmVnaV9pZD0xNTMzNjg5MTAmc2VnbWVudF9pZD0xNDQ3MDQmdGU9MSZ1c2VyX2lkPThlNWQyYTJiNWU0OGE2OTY1NjE5MmNjM2FmMGE5MDBjVwNueXRCCmT6POYCZSMOF-9SEWpjZG9vbTlAZ21haWwuY29tWAQAAAAD), whom President Biden named to run the Federal Trade Commission.)

As part of their argument, these critics of big business — the intellectual heirs to Theodore Roosevelt — can point to macroeconomic data. In the four decades since Bork’s view triumphed, wages for most Americans have grown more slowly (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/newsletter/tsE3zV4v5u-PcO8FO77i3w~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRm5Ws8P0TraHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMjAxOS8wMi8yNC9vcGluaW9uL2luY29tZS1pbmVxdWFsaXR5LXVwcGVyLW1pZGRsZS1jbGFzcy5odG1sP2NhbXBhaWduX2lkPTkmZW1jPWVkaXRfbm5fMjAyMzA5MTQmaW5zdGFuY2VfaWQ9MTAyNzEzJm5sPXRoZS1tb3JuaW5nJnJlZ2lfaWQ9MTUzMzY4OTEwJnNlZ21lbnRfaWQ9MTQ0NzA0JnRlPTEmdXNlcl9pZD04ZTVkMmEyYjVlNDhhNjk2NTYxOTJjYzNhZjBhOTAwY1cDbnl0Qgpk-jzmAmUjDhfvUhFqY2Rvb205QGdtYWlsLmNvbVgEAAAAAw~~) than either corporate profits or the incomes of the wealthy. Corporate consolidation seems to have been better for a small slice of privileged people, including Google executives, than for most Americans.

In the long term, these critics hope to change the legal standard for evaluating large companies, much as Bork and other scholars slowly did in the late 20th century. Doing so will probably require new laws as well as different attitudes among regulators and judges. Such a project might take decades, if it ever succeeds.

In the meantime, the Justice Department’s lawyers hope to persuade Amit Mehta, the federal judge hearing the case (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/newsletter/dzKO-oJVG0-JN48vTu939g~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRm5Ws8P0TnaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMjAyMy8wOS8xMS90ZWNobm9sb2d5L2dvb2dsZS10cmlhbC1qdWRnZS1wbGFpbnRpZmZzLmh0bWw_Y2FtcGFpZ25faWQ9OSZlbWM9ZWRpdF9ubl8yMDIzMDkxNCZpbnN0YW5jZV9pZD0xMDI3MTMmbmw9dGhlLW1vcm5pbmcmcmVnaV9pZD0xNTMzNjg5MTAmc2VnbWVudF9pZD0xNDQ3MDQmdGU9MSZ1c2VyX2lkPThlNWQyYTJiNWU0OGE2OTY1NjE5MmNjM2FmMGE5MDBjVwNueXRCCmT6POYCZSMOF-9SEWpjZG9vbTlAZ21haWwuY29tWAQAAAAD), that Google has violated even the lenient antitrust laws of today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 14, 2023, 09:45:12 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on September 13, 2023, 04:09:11 PM

Batteries & Tires don't last here in Phoenix.  Another good reason to trade in a lease every 3 years

I've never been one to lease, but I may start for that reason.

The Benz has the auxiliary battery in the trunk. Very accessible. Had to replace that one once. Lasted 7 years up North. $145.00.

That thing is probably $250-300 now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 14, 2023, 09:47:40 AM

My wife used to lease, new car every three years.  Expensive route of course, relatively.  Car "tech" is changing rapidly today, I think, so leasing may be the better option, but not versus keeping a car for a decade or more (which I'd prefer to do if it's a good car).  Most automakers are going HforL to EVs of course, none of us can be sure where that ends up in a few years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 14, 2023, 09:49:41 AM

We had a Hyundai salesman explain leasing to us a while back, simply.  They calculate the expected value of the car three years out versus the sales price and you pay that amount (plus interest).  They were promoting a 0% lease option at the time, which made no sense to me, but does now.

If you buy a Porsche for example, depreciation is relatively small so leasing can appear to be a very good option for that one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 14, 2023, 10:57:33 AM

I think there are situations where it can be more financially viable to lease rather than buy. 

That said, I think most individuals who lease cars do it in order to drive a better car than they could afford to buy. 

Why buy a 7-year old Honda Civic for $15K (maybe $500/mo over 36 month financing) when you could be driving a BRAND NEW BMW for just $499 a month? 

I mean, sure, in 3 years you'll have a Honda Civic worth $10K that'll probably run reliably at least another 5 years, or you'll have nothing at all to show for it. 

But you'll look sexy a f in that 3-series!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 14, 2023, 11:00:09 AM

Yeah, I agree, most lease because of that.  Car payments are much higher obviously than a lease payment.

My daughter leased a Hyundai Tucson because she wasn't sure what she'd need in three years.  Fair enough.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on September 14, 2023, 11:13:21 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 14, 2023, 10:57:33 AM

I think there are situations where it can be more financially viable to lease rather than buy.

That said, I think most individuals who lease cars do it in order to drive a better car than they could afford to buy.

Why buy a 7-year old Honda Civic for $15K (maybe $500/mo over 36 month financing) when you could be driving a BRAND NEW BMW for just $499 a month?

I mean, sure, in 3 years you'll have a Honda Civic worth $10K that'll probably run reliably at least another 5 years, or you'll have nothing at all to show for it.

But you'll look sexy a f in that 3-series!

I lease purely for the fact that I don't want to deal with car issues. I was one who use to never have a car payment.  If I needed a car and had a couple thousand dollars that was the car value that I purchased. If it was $500, I bought a beater.  I would drive them into the ground, nurse than until it couldn't be.  One time I had a clutch going out of a car. It was already badly beat up by an airborne express driver hitting me. (wasn't worth putting the money from the settlement back into the car), so I crawled along to a junk yard and traded it for a radiator for my other car.  Back in those days I did all my own repairs, these days with all the computerization, repairs are beyond me and my time is more valuable than what it would take to do the repairs even if I could.  About 10 years ago, living here in Phoenix, I had a car with 250K miles on it, both front window mechanisms were broken so they windows wouldn't go down. My AC went out and was going to cost a few thousand dollars to fix.  I decided that that point I was tired of dealing with all the crap and decided to have a car payment. I had managed to get to 53yo without ever having a car payment.  When exploring I decided that a lease was better than a purchase and that I would rather just exchange the lease every 3 years knowing that the car wouldn't have time to develop mechanical problems. And I get the latest and greatest inovations. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 14, 2023, 11:22:09 AM

It seems a lot of us used to do m ost of our own repairs.  I'd spend several hours a month on my '73 Nova once it got past 3-4 years.  It needed a lot of stuff a modern car doesn't need.  They were maintenance nightmares back then but we didn't notice.

I take the GTI to the dealer once a year for about $100 for an oil change and that has been it, so far.  Knock knock.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 14, 2023, 11:26:27 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on September 14, 2023, 11:13:21 AM

I lease purely for the fact that I don't want to deal with car issues. I was one who use to never have a car payment.  If I needed a car and had a couple thousand dollars that was the car value that I purchased. If it was $500, I bought a beater.  I would drive them into the ground, nurse than until it couldn't be.  One time I had a clutch going out of a car. It was already badly beat up by an airborne express driver hitting me. (wasn't worth putting the money from the settlement back into the car), so I crawled along to a junk yard and traded it for a radiator for my other car.  Back in those days I did all my own repairs, these days with all the computerization, repairs are beyond me and my time is more valuable than what it would take to do the repairs even if I could.  About 10 years ago, living here in Phoenix, I had a car with 250K miles on it, both front window mechanisms were broken so they windows wouldn't go down. My AC went out and was going to cost a few thousand dollars to fix.  I decided that that point I was tired of dealing with all the crap and decided to have a car payment. I had managed to get to 53yo without ever having a car payment.  When exploring I decided that a lease was better than a purchase and that I would rather just exchange the lease every 3 years knowing that the car wouldn't have time to develop mechanical problems. And I get the latest and greatest inovations.

If you made it to 53 without ever having a car payment, you're not the type I'm talking about lol :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 14, 2023, 12:19:47 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 14, 2023, 10:57:33 AM

But you'll look sexy a f in that 3-series!

3 series is not good. 5 series minimum.

Feel the same about the M-B C class. E class minimum. S Class optimum. We'll see.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 14, 2023, 12:24:46 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 14, 2023, 11:26:27 AM

If you made it to 53 without ever having a car payment, you're not the type I'm talking about lol :)

Been 30 or so years since I've had a car payment.

That could change. We'll see.

Bought a 1995 Volvo 850 GLT in 1997 for $18K cash. Drove it until 2016 (when I got the Benz I have now, which was bought by my company).

I put 454K miles on that Volvo and sold it for $3.5K!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 14, 2023, 12:41:01 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 14, 2023, 12:19:47 PM

3 series is not good. 5 series minimum.

The kind of people I'm talking about couldn't come close to affording to lease a 5-series. 

My point is that they *shouldn't* be stretching just to afford the lease payment on a 3-series because if they have to lease just to afford it, well, they can't actually afford it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 14, 2023, 12:52:02 PM

Vanity will do that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 14, 2023, 01:19:01 PM

The 3 series back in the day was a competent sports sedan, they basically defined that market.  But most who had one drove it like they would a Camry.  We've all followed some on a cloverleaf and see it.  Cadillac makes better sports sedans than BMW today but it's a dying market.

There are a lot of competent durable sedans today available for not much but hardly anyone wants one.  We stroll through a parking lot and everything seems like an "SUV
 kind of thing, often RAV4s and CRVs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 14, 2023, 01:26:14 PM

I like SUV's too, but not a Rav 4. That's not useful for much. It's non-utility at best.

The Volvo XC 90 is nice. I like the XT 6. M-B GLE will likely be the choice. GLS is just a little too big.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 14, 2023, 01:38:42 PM

A small "SUV" thing is fine for us I reackon, boring but fine.  I guess.  I showed a RAV 4 to my wife and she said it was too large for her.  The even smaller "quasiSUV' things have poor acceleration and that's a no for her (and me).  She likes Bimmers so it's probably the X1 for us if they fix their start=stop gadget.  I've yet to look at one or sit in one and with some cars that is a no for me also, just sitting in it.

We might do some light looking around this fall some time.  I try and avoid the topic with her.

It's a bit amazing to me that a RAV 4 looks quite a bit larger than a GTI, and I guess it is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 14, 2023, 01:47:06 PM

X3. You will not like the X1. Trust me. My wife wanted one. She drove one. Then she drove the GLK (precursor to the GLC), and it was over.

X1 rides like a tin can.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 14, 2023, 02:04:28 PM

When did she drive one?  They have a new model out.  I'm used to the ride in a GTI anyway.  Neither of us want a larger "SUV".  The various reviews of  the X1 are quite good except for the start-stop aspect of it.

I don't really know what a "tin can" rides like.  Our previous Caddy had a pretty stiff ride, I'm OK with it.


2023 BMW X1 vs 2023 Mercedes-Benz GLA Class - The Car Connection (https://www.thecarconnection.com/car-compare-results/bmw_x1_2023-vs-mercedes-benz_gla-class_2023)

2023 BMW X1 Specs, Price, MPG & Reviews | Cars.com (https://www.cars.com/research/bmw-x1-2023/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 14, 2023, 02:17:03 PM

Not exactly a glowing review.

(https://i.imgur.com/IvIyDwJ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 14, 2023, 02:26:23 PM

I look through car mag and other on line reviews rather than info from anecdotal accounts.  I'm sure some buyers dislike any car they buy.  The car mags can be pretty good at surfacing areas of concern, and they of course have opportunity to drive a lot of vehicles on test tracks and on the road.

But ultimately I'll drive them myself and see how they feel.  I'd rather keep the GTI.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 14, 2023, 03:26:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 14, 2023, 02:26:23 PM

But ultimately I'll drive them myself and see how they feel.  I'd rather keep the GTI.

Have you considered the Lexus NX if you're looking at the small SUV market? They've got a couple models (I think it's the NX450 hybrid) that is peppy enough to be 0-60 in 6 seconds. So that should have you covered for acceleration. 

That said, I know you're tall but not sure how tall. I will say that the last generation NX was something we were looking at in 2018 when we bought my wife's RX. At 6'5" I couldn't fit in the NX. Depending on your proportions some of those small SUVs may not be viable...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 14, 2023, 04:00:45 PM

I'm down to 6'3" now, but I fit into the GTI without even having the seat all the way back.  Aside from fitting, seat comfort is a key metric for me, ability to reach major controls, where the steering wheel is, etc.  The Caddy had steering wheel controls that were useful, and when my wife unlocked it, they returned to her position.  The GTI does not have memory seats.

I used to have a Chevy Sonic (with a stick) that I fit in just fine.  That was a decent car for the money.  The GTI is like the Sonic on 'roids.

I tend to think of the Lexus models as fancier versions of Toyotas.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 14, 2023, 04:02:13 PM

C&D had this to say:

Lexus's (https://www.caranddriver.com/lexus/) brand is centered on comfort, and the 2024 NX SUV plays right into that ethos, effectively hiding the plebeian platform it shares with the Toyota RAV4 (https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/rav4) and Venza crossovers (https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/venza). Unless it's parked next to the Venza, it's hard to see the similarities. Most NX models come handsomely appointed with high-quality materials. A plethora of powertrain options is available, including a hybrid and plug-in hybrid. The latter is a 302-hp setup pulled from the muscled-up RAV4 Prime (https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/rav4-hybrid). Don't get confused, though, the NX is a softie, prioritizing compliant ride quality over apex-nipping aptitude. That means enthusiast drivers will likely find rivals such as the Audi Q3 (https://www.caranddriver.com/audi/q3), the BMW X1 (https://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/x1), or the Mercedes-Benz GLA-class (https://www.caranddriver.com/mercedes-benz/gla-class) more satisfying. If your use case skews more towards road trips and quiet commutes, though, the Lexus is well-suited for such tasks and features comfortable front seats that are perfect for long drives.

I might check it out, but the softie comment is not my taste.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 14, 2023, 04:47:50 PM

Masked 'Boot Girls' Are Freeing Booted Cars All Over Atlanta (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a45123358/masked-boot-girls-are-freeing-booted-cars-all-over-atlanta/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&fbclid=IwAR0TBaCu1K2Mfd5qc2WVXz3y8bTQee7fXE5Is0FlVG4Frt7YGHCxxxGAzvc)

We walked by a fairly small parking lot, maybe 35 car capacity, and three of the ten or so cars there were booted.  They have a sign saying you will get booted if you don't patronize one of the 5 or so places in the small shopping strip mall.  It was an odd place to park to go somewhere else.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 14, 2023, 07:10:08 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 14, 2023, 03:26:05 PM

Have you considered the Lexus NX if you're looking at the small SUV market? They've got a couple models (I think it's the NX450 hybrid) that is peppy enough to be 0-60 in 6 seconds. So that should have you covered for acceleration.

That said, I know you're tall but not sure how tall. I will say that the last generation NX was something we were looking at in 2018 when we bought my wife's RX. At 6'5" I couldn't fit in the NX. Depending on your proportions some of those small SUVs may not be viable...

Plus they're all really ugly!!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 14, 2023, 07:40:58 PM

Quote from: utee94 on September 14, 2023, 07:10:08 PM

Plus they're all really ugly!!!!

The previous generation Lexus NX and RX looked good. Not a fan of the redesign. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 15, 2023, 04:10:24 AM

I don't value "ugly" in a car all that much.  Granted, a handful are not to my liking and it becomes a factor.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 15, 2023, 05:42:21 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 14, 2023, 04:00:45 PM

I tend to think of the Lexus models as fancier versions of Toyotas.

Well prolly cause they are- -sarcasm duly noted Bodega

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 15, 2023, 06:02:29 AM

My neighbor has a Lexus sedan that he asked me to drive on occasion as he's out of the country for 4 months.  The steering is truly awful, in my opinion, that would be a nonstarter for me.  Zero feedback over boosted.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 15, 2023, 09:16:29 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 15, 2023, 04:10:24 AM

I don't value "ugly" in a car all that much.  Granted, a handful are not to my liking and it becomes a factor. 

I'd be sad driving something I thought was ugly.  Aside from my very first car of course, which I was just happy to have, as a 16-year-old.

i just look at it this way-- I paid my dues.


(https://i.imgur.com/LuMwJz6.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 15, 2023, 10:07:43 AM

Oh, we're doing that now? 

(https://i.imgur.com/YIaQAoF.png)

Four speed manual. Top speed: 93 mph. Know that because although the speedo tops at 85, my buddy was driving on a road trip and got a ticket in St Joseph, MI doing 93. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 15, 2023, 10:15:49 AM

I don't think the Omnis looked bad for the time.  The GTIs back then looked pretty similar.

Sure, I'd like to have a swoopy 2 door sporty thing, but it's not going to happen.  I don't like the large nostrils on BMW sedans these days.  I don't care for that new Lexus grill thing either.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 15, 2023, 10:51:15 AM

My first car:

(https://i.imgur.com/eqncRce.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on September 15, 2023, 10:54:52 AM

My First Car 1973 Chevy Impala.  Pushed the gas petal, Speedometer went up fast and the gas gauge went down as fast

(https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.CuUkWtN-nUZJK-A2PMbosgHaFj&pid=Api&P=0&h=180)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 15, 2023, 10:57:43 AM

Mine was a 1968 Nova with a 307 and two speed transmission.  It was pretty sad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 15, 2023, 11:13:54 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 15, 2023, 10:57:43 AM

Mine was a 1968 Nova with a 307 and two speed transmission.  It was pretty sad.

The Chevy Power-glide which is typically known by car-guys as the power-slush, LoL.  

The really pathetic part was that it was the ONLY transmission available on the original Corvette.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: LetsGoPeay on September 15, 2023, 11:23:18 AM

This was my first car except that it was tan with a brown roof.

(https://totallythatstupid.files.wordpress.com/2023/04/oldsdelta88_9.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 15, 2023, 11:33:04 AM

My Dad bought a 1969 Belaire 327 which my Mom drove and it had the TH transmission, which to us meant it had a "passing gear".  I didn't know about transmissions at that time.  That car got about 13 mpg highway.  It was cavernous and wobbly with drum brakes of course.  My Dad got kind of hooked on buying new cars about then, everything GM, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1974.  I recall the house payment was $125 a month.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 15, 2023, 11:55:34 AM

This is an out-in-the-weeds topic but I was doing some HVAC calculations and it reminded me of a conversation that I had here mostly with @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) a while back so I figured I'd share this with him and anyone else who might be interested.  

One of my biggest complaints with our education system is that, as I see it, the administrators and the Education leadership in general seem to want to teach EVERYBODY a college prep education and this is silly because only around 1/3 of American Adults have a college degree.  On top of that, I would argue that even that 1/3 is too many.  A lot of them have useless degrees and are working in fields where their degree does them no good whatsoever.  

Vocational Education is, IMHO, woefully under-emphasized and under-utilized and we end up with WAY too many college drop-outs and people who barely graduated with a degree in Sociology or Art History who have the same useable job skills they would have had if they had dropped out of HS.  

Anyway, along those lines I was talking about learning the Pythagorean theorem (sides of a triangle, A^2+B^2=C^2 where A and B are the sides of a right triangle that DO intersect each other at a right angle).  

I had actually learned that working construction many years earlier from guys who couldn't have pronounced, spelled, nor cared about Pythagoras.  I learned it as something referred to in the trades as the "rule of three, four, five".  In that context it was explained to me that when you are building a house or a deck or staking it out, if you measure 3" down one leg and 4" down the other leg the distance between those two will be exactly 5" if your corner is exactly square.  

Now I'm sure that the Architects who designed the houses you all live in knew about Pythagoras and his theorem but I'm equally sure that the corner of your house is ACTUALLY square because the guys who staked it out knew the rule of three, four, five.  

My point was that for guys who are NOT going to college, boring them to death with useless information about some long-dead greek dude is a complete and total waste of time for everyone involved.  It would make a LOT more sense and would probably interest them a LOT more to teach them that if they are building something they can check the square of the corner by using the rule of three, four, five.  

Anyway, another example of this kind of thing came up as I was working out some things for an HVAC:
When you run HVAC ducts you have a trunk or several trunk lines and then you split off from there.  It is important to balance those lines.  Ie, you have to have as much area in the feeder as you have in the fed lines.  

Now I learned Pi in some long-ago college prep math class.  Off the top of my head I can go out to 3.1415926.  The only reason I know it that far is that in 2015 I took my (then) girlfriend (now wife) to Chicago for the B1G Basketball Tournament and we ended up going to the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry on Pi Day March 14.  At 9:26 in the morning we took a picture of ourselves eating a piece of pie because the date/time lined up with Pi.  

Ok, back to the story.  In reality I've NEVER done anything where I actually needed to know Pi beyond 3.14.  In fact, I think that for everything I've ever actually needed it for, simply 3 would have been close enough.  I'm sure if you are designing parts for the space station you need to know it pretty far out but I'm not and even those guys are using computers so the ability to recite Pi to the 15th digit is completely and totally academic.  

Back to my HVAC.  The final line (serving one vent) is typically a 6" line so you need to know what it takes to feed two, three, four etc 6" lines.  If you are only using round lines then Pi is actually completely irrelevant.  All you need to be able to do is:

• Know that a radius is half of a diamater, and
• Multiply the radius by itself.  

That is it.  

• So for a 6" round pipe this is 9 (6/2=3x3=9)
• For an 8" pipe this is 16 (8/2=4x4=16)
• For a 10" pipe this is 25 (10/2=5x5=25)
• For a 12" pipe this is 36 (12/2=6x6=36).  

Then from there, an 8" will feed two 6" pipes.  This isn't exact because the area of a 6" is actually 28.27 square inches so two of them are 56.55 square inches and the area of an 8" pipe is only 50.27 square inches but that is all completely irrelevant because:

• I'm not designing parts for the space station here, I'm just running HVAC lines for a house, and
• If you actually did the calculation exactly you would discover that the appropriately sized pipe to feed two 6" pipes is a pipe with an exact diameter of 8.4853 inches.  If you want you can go to your local Home Depot and ask them for a 8.4853" HVAC pipe but be ready for them to laugh at you.  We aren't building spaceships here, HVAC pipes come in 6", 8", 10", and 12".  They also make them bigger but those are industrial/commercial things that I really don't deal with.  In a residential home you are just dealing with the aforementioned round pipes and some square and rectangular pipes.  

Similarly, it isn't exact but you can feed three 6" pipes with a 10" pipe and you can feed four of them (this one is exact) with a 12" pipe.  

The square and rectangular pipes are where you actually sorta need to know Pi but again, 3 is close enough.  If I'm feeding 6" round pipes off of a 14x10 rectangular (that is sized to fit between joists) line I need some way to compare areas of circles to areas of rectangles.  The 14x10 pipe has an area of 140 square inches and (see above) a 6" round pipe has an area of a little over 28 square inches so the 14x10 rectangle will feed five 6" round pipes (140/28=5).  If I had simply ignored the decimals and used 3, I would have calculated a value of 27 for the 6" pipe and 140/27 is a little over 5 so it literally makes no difference because either way the 14x10 rectangular pipe will feed five 6" round pipes.  That is close enough and it is all I need to know to do HVAC.  

Guys who were taught things like the rule of three, four, five, and how to balance HVAC runs in Tech school generally have a lot better job prospects and a lot less debt than guys who got a Sociology degree with a C average from a mediocre school.  One is a sought-after HVAC tech, the other gets you your coffee at Starbucks.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on September 15, 2023, 12:14:33 PM

My first looked like this.  1990 cavalier.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 15, 2023, 12:16:20 PM

I've noted before that US kids go to college at nearly double the rate European kids do.  The other difference is over there if you major in chemistry, nearly every course you take will be chemistry something, so they get a more intensive degree.  They wouldn't have to take history and English and sociology as I did.  One reason is their HS curriculum for college track kids is also pretty intense, so they are expected to have learned history in HS.  Our colleges seem to be more like European HS for at least the first year.  They also stream kids pretty early, by 12 or so you pretty much know if you're headed to college.  So, they have fewer colleges per capita and lower costs (and no sports to speak of of course).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 15, 2023, 01:29:39 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 15, 2023, 10:15:49 AM

I don't think the Omnis looked bad for the time.  The GTIs back then looked pretty similar.

I don't like the GTI from then either.  I don't like hatchbacks or "hot hatches" at all.

Back seat wasn't particularly roomy but somehow I managed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 15, 2023, 01:30:32 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 15, 2023, 10:51:15 AM

My first car:

(https://i.imgur.com/eqncRce.jpg)

Man some of y'all had some kickass first cars.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 15, 2023, 02:04:56 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/fWmr63G.jpg)

This is the color we have.  The wheels have picked up some road rash, not too bad.  I really like the combination of fun to drive/comfortable/volume in the back/mpgs.  The only thing my wife doesn't like is the low to the ground aspect vs "SUVs".   I had to replace two tires on it to punctures and annual oil changes, so far.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 16, 2023, 08:38:48 AM

Senate Stock Watcher

See the stock trades US Senators are making as they are reported. Get notifications when new reports are uploaded.

https://senatestockwatcher.com/ (https://senatestockwatcher.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 16, 2023, 09:07:14 AM

My wife got me this for my Bday:

(https://i.imgur.com/nQg6MfU.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 17, 2023, 09:45:08 AM

Hmmm, I'd be alright with this:

(https://i.imgur.com/YlgSDAp.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 17, 2023, 09:50:11 AM

Quote from: utee94 on September 15, 2023, 01:30:32 PM

Man some of y'all had some kickass first cars.

I wish I still had it. 455. Very powerful, very heavy and drank gas like I drink Tito's.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 17, 2023, 09:56:21 AM

wish I still had mine.  I paid $700.  It would be worth some $$$

1970 Chevrolet Nova SS

Sale Price: $50,925 

Event: Bring a Trailer
Lot Number: 112510

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 17, 2023, 10:00:55 AM

The History Of The Oldsmobile 455: GM's 'Other' Big Block Muscle Car Monster | DrivingLine (https://www.drivingline.com/articles/the-history-of-the-oldsmobile-455-gms-other-big-block-muscle-car-monster/)

In 1971 the Oldsmobile 455 V8 would begin to fade from the high performance landscape. Compression would drop from 10.5:1 to 8.5:1 even in W30 package cars, and camshafts would slide back to the streetable side of the ledger. This knocked torque down to 460 lb-ft and horsepower to 350, both gross ratings. The 442 would carry in one form or another throughout the decade, but after 1973 its was a shadow of its former self, and by 1975 it couldn't even break the 200hp barrier (albeit judged by the less forgiving SAE net rating, which tested engine output fully-dressed with exhaust and accessories).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 17, 2023, 10:06:04 AM

Here's the version of the Nova I had in HS (2nd car):
(https://i.imgur.com/qoJMCzw.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 17, 2023, 10:10:46 AM

makes me happy I grew up in the 60s

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2023, 10:14:01 AM

Quote from: utee94 on September 15, 2023, 01:30:32 PM

Man some of y'all had some kickass first cars.

:043: I'd post an image if I had one but then you couldn't unsee it.My older brother was a ATC stationed in N.Michigan AFB in the late '70s picked up a piss yellow 66 4 dr Impala, and if you took a magnet to it - it wouldn't pull - a bondo beauty beast. But it had a 327 in it and he rebuilt the carb so it moved - and so did the gas guage.Had it for a year or so when my dad gave me a '67 white implala 327 4dr that I had for another yr. out of that. He was a 32 yr Employee at CHEVY. We sold the 1st one to a guy from H.S. who wanted the engine.And I had the 2nd one until my one uncle unfortunately had passed away and I got  his 2dr '72 NOVA with the 250 in it. So for zero dollars investment I had cars for my 1st 6yrs or so of driving. Then I got a '71 Dodge Dart with a slant 6 225 but that's a different story and don't feel like typing

A real stable show pieces I tell you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 17, 2023, 10:15:14 AM

The 70s and 80s were bad times for performance cars, at least after about 1973.  Fuel injection started to get a handle on emissions and performance, and then DOHC engines with electronics helped.  Then along came pressurizing with less lag.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 17, 2023, 10:37:38 AM

the 300hp 350 in my 70 Nova got 20 mpg
4 speed, power steering and power brakes

if not for the 411 gears in the 12 bolt posi rear end it might have done better

3,000 rpm at 55 mph

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 17, 2023, 10:48:07 AM

[th]Performance[/th] [th]Engine[/th] [th]0 to 60[/th] [th]Quarter Mile[/th] [th]Source[/th]
Nova SS	350ci/270hp	8.5 sec	15.9 sec @  87.63 mph	Motor Trend

That's a 1971, by the standards of today, not very fast.  Probably an automatic.  By 1973, the 350 4 bbl had only 185 hp, but that's SAE Net instead of Gross.


My little 4 banger hits 60 in 6.1 seconds according to the mags.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on September 17, 2023, 11:24:11 AM

Mine. (https://i.imgur.com/VoLPJac.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 17, 2023, 12:27:50 PM

My neighbor had an S10 he'd let me use any time.  Very useful neighbor.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 17, 2023, 12:47:33 PM

I learned to drive on an S-10, stick shift.  Useful little truck.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 17, 2023, 07:53:31 PM

56th season premiere of 60 minutes

Deion

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 17, 2023, 11:07:56 PM

From a textbook:
(https://i.imgur.com/FdNBis7.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 18, 2023, 07:16:56 AM

I really hated thermodynamics. That class sucked.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 18, 2023, 08:24:55 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 18, 2023, 07:16:56 AM

I really hated thermodynamics. That class sucked.

I watched someone take it secondhand. Did not seem like fun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 18, 2023, 08:44:34 AM

One of the best things I ever did before taking my preliminary oral exam was to read my freshman chemistry book and solve all the problems in it.  Surprisingly, I had never done that before.  It was/is a good book, and covered a lot of stuff I had "learned for the test" and forgotten.  And it was basic enough that I could read and follow along, mostly.  I got asked several thermo questions and managed, though if you get the first question right, they then ask a tougher one, and then tougher, until you don't know, and then they give hints to see how well you think.

I don't think my boss expected me to pass, the pass rate was about 50%.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 18, 2023, 10:07:51 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on September 15, 2023, 10:54:52 AM

My First Car 1973 Chevy Impala.  Pushed the gas petal, Speedometer went up fast and the gas gauge went down as fast

(https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.CuUkWtN-nUZJK-A2PMbosgHaFj&pid=Api&P=0&h=180)

That looks a lot like the 72 I had. Same color at least and the same characteristics (speed and gas usage). 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 18, 2023, 10:10:33 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 15, 2023, 10:57:43 AM

Mine was a 1968 Nova with a 307 and two speed transmission.  It was pretty sad.

I had a 64 Nova with a 327 and the 2 speed power glide trans with a 4/11 posi-traction rear end.  It was set up for the drag strip but was cool to drive to school. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 18, 2023, 10:24:11 AM

I had a high school friend who used to take his parents Dodge Dart to the drag races and he won several races

he kept his trophies at his friends house

you cant write this stuff

(https://i.imgur.com/N7DnZSt.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 18, 2023, 11:43:24 AM

so the US Gov't is asking if anybody has seen an $80 million missing F-35 fighter jet. How do you lose one of those? Joe Biden has lost his mind, now he's losing fighter jets. Jeez. 

https://twitter.com/rawsalerts/status/1703587129253670938?s=20
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6RdK42XQAEceK8?format=jpg&name=medium)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 18, 2023, 11:48:49 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on September 18, 2023, 11:43:24 AM

so the US Gov't is asking if anybody has seen an $80 million missing F-35 fighter jet. How do you lose one of those? Joe Biden has lost his mind, now he's losing fighter jets. Jeez.

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.JOXjihf-C-zlRM8E3oqRvwHaGe%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=86c09eb65978196312ec92d76be36d190d5c085ca02f2fcd3082a42842ce2b4d&ipo=images)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 18, 2023, 12:20:04 PM

what we dont know is what the pilot is saying

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on September 18, 2023, 02:55:52 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC6J4T_hUKg

I'm bummed that you can't actually sword-fight with it because it's not solid and the plasma beams would just pass through each other, but I still want one.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on September 18, 2023, 03:06:20 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on September 18, 2023, 02:55:52 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC6J4T_hUKg

I'm bummed that you can't actually sword-fight with it because it's not solid and the plasma beams would just pass through each other, but I still want one. 

holy shit that looks like fun. and seems like a giant law suit just waiting to happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 18, 2023, 07:14:58 PM

will it cut trees?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 18, 2023, 07:45:05 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 18, 2023, 07:14:58 PM

will it cut trees?

How much time ya got?

(No liability offered for forest fires caused.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on September 18, 2023, 07:48:29 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 18, 2023, 07:14:58 PM

will it cut trees?

It will.  Check out their follow up video where they test it out on various materials/objects. But it's slower than a quick stroke like in the movies. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 18, 2023, 10:26:26 PM

I obviously prefer the quick stroke

just ask her

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 20, 2023, 02:07:53 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on September 18, 2023, 07:48:29 PM

It will.  Check out their follow up video where they test it out on various materials/objects. But it's slower than a quick stroke like in the movies.

What kind of movies are you watching?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 20, 2023, 09:39:56 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/gePTAir.jpg)

DYK that at intersections where roundabouts have been installed to replace existing intersections, crashes have been reduced by over 35%, and injury-related crashes have been reduced by over 60%.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 20, 2023, 09:41:52 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 20, 2023, 09:39:56 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/gePTAir.jpg)

DYK that at intersections where roundabouts have been installed to replace existing intersections, crashes have been reduced by over 35%, and injury-related crashes have been reduced by over 60%.

That's really interesting, and overall good news. I'd be interested to see what the throughput comparisons look like, especially at peak traffic times. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 20, 2023, 09:44:31 AM

Most of them are in the boonies, no traffic to speak of, it's a bit to me to encounter one way out in the country.  There is one just north of us now that works better than the old system.  Around town there isn't room for them now with a few exceptions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 20, 2023, 09:49:47 AM

Yeah in dense urban areas you can't really retrofit them into the road plan.

I've seen some go in at major suburban interchanges though, where there was plenty of land.  I'm interested because I expect that throughput is superior, but I've never seen any data to prove it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 20, 2023, 09:52:19 AM

Yeah, they take up a lot of space, especially when you factor in the stormwater management required. I've designed some in the past. They work.

The one below has been in place since the beginning of time. It was part of my driving test back in the day. The configuration has been modified since then, of course. When I was driving it, it was simply a circle with roads intersecting. It was a mess. Looks much better now, but it would probably confuse me since I grew up with the mess.

(https://i.imgur.com/NDTp3tk.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 20, 2023, 10:13:17 AM

I like'em, except the huge ones in Paris that are 8 lanes wide with zero lane markings, those are a bit scary.

(https://i.imgur.com/eunwyYw.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 20, 2023, 10:15:07 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/sklQaMy.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 20, 2023, 10:29:39 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 20, 2023, 10:13:17 AM

I like'em, except the huge ones in Paris that are 8 lanes wide with zero lane markings, those are a bit scary.

(https://i.imgur.com/eunwyYw.png)

Agree, those are terrifying.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 20, 2023, 10:53:57 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 20, 2023, 10:13:17 AM

I like'em, except the huge ones in Paris that are 8 lanes wide with zero lane markings, those are a bit scary.

(https://i.imgur.com/eunwyYw.png)

At least the French know which way to go round them. The truly terrifying ones are in Britain where they go round the wrong way.
https://youtu.be/iAgX6qlJEMc?feature=shared

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 20, 2023, 10:58:55 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 20, 2023, 09:39:56 AM

[img width=274.381 height=281]https://i.imgur.com/gePTAir.jpg[/img]
DYK that at intersections where roundabouts have been installed to replace existing intersections, crashes have been reduced by over 35%, and injury-related crashes have been reduced by over 60%.

Interesting.

From my anecdotal experience I thought that crashes were UP because I see plenty of fender-benders.

I assumed that ODOT simply accepted that because the severity of crashes is WAY down because instead of deadly 50 MPH T-Bone crashes you are seeing ~30 MPH merger sideswipes which are highly unlikely to be fatal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on September 20, 2023, 11:44:30 AM

The throughput on roundabouts is crazy high. 

Fender benders may be up a bit, but I'm skeptical of that based on MnDOT/State Patrol's crash data.  YMMV based on your jurisdiction. However, serious injury wrecks and fatals (which are almost always high-speed T-bones) have disappeared. A merging collision below 20 MPH in which both cars are going roughly the same direction is a much more acceptable outcome.

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on September 20, 2023, 10:58:55 AM

Interesting.

From my anecdotal experience I thought that crashes were UP because I see plenty of fender-benders.

I assumed that ODOT simply accepted that because the severity of crashes is WAY down because instead of deadly 50 MPH T-Bone crashes you are seeing ~30 MPH merger sideswipes which are highly unlikely to be fatal.

The biggest thing I've noticed that is way up re: roundabouts is bellyaching about roundabouts from truck drivers with trailers who don't know how to drive their load.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 20, 2023, 11:56:59 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on September 20, 2023, 11:44:30 AM

The throughput on roundabouts is crazy high.

Fender benders may be up a bit, but I'm skeptical of that based on MnDOT/State Patrol's crash data.  YMMV based on your jurisdiction. However, serious injury wrecks and fatals (which are almost always high-speed T-bones) have disappeared. A merging collision below 20 MPH in which both cars are going roughly the same direction is a much more acceptable outcome.
The biggest thing I've noticed that is way up re: roundabouts is bellyaching about roundabouts from truck drivers with trailers who don't know how to drive their load.

We actually had a fatal at one near me, right after it was installed.

The intersection is a 90° three-way of two State Highways. One of the highways jogs so there are actually two 90° three-way intersections of State Highways about a half a mile apart.

This is an area outside of my town that was pretty rural when I was a kid 40 years ago but has become increasingly suburbanized as the local population has grown.

When I was a kid both intersections were one-way stops with the straight-through highway travellers not required to stop.

Anyway, now one is a four-way intersection with a signal (new development at the new fourth-way.

The other is a three-way roundabout.

Right after it was installed a truck driver flipped and died. I *THINK* he was familiar with the old intersection, didn't realize it had changed, and went barreling through at 50+MPH. When he hit the curves, he flipped.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 20, 2023, 12:05:37 PM

We've got a standard 4-way stop light right near my house that is HORRIBLY dangerous. 

Somehow all four directions are downhill approaching the intersection. 3 lanes each way one direciton, 2 lanes each way the other. Double left turn lanes at all four directions. 

Seems to be a collision here near daily, and there have been some VERY nasty ones too. 

When going down Alicia from my house, I no longer stay in the right hand lane because people stopping to get into and out of the Arco gas station causes a lot of fender benders; I've actually been rear-ended there before when I had to slow down because people were entering the gas station and the guy behind me didn't notice. 

I don't know what makes this one so prone to major accidents except maybe that everything is downhill, but I get nervous every time I approach this intersection--which is bad because my typical routes have me using it VERY frequently. 

(https://i.imgur.com/xpj2kUw.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 20, 2023, 12:17:19 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 20, 2023, 12:05:37 PM

We've got a standard 4-way stop light right near my house that is HORRIBLY dangerous.

Somehow all four directions are downhill approaching the intersection. 3 lanes each way one direciton, 2 lanes each way the other. Double left turn lanes at all four directions.

Seems to be a collision here near daily, and there have been some VERY nasty ones too.

When going down Alicia from my house, I no longer stay in the right hand lane because people stopping to get into and out of the Arco gas station causes a lot of fender benders; I've actually been rear-ended there before when I had to slow down because people were entering the gas station and the guy behind me didn't notice.

I don't know what makes this one so prone to major accidents except maybe that everything is downhill, but I get nervous every time I approach this intersection--which is bad because my typical routes have me using it VERY frequently.

(https://i.imgur.com/xpj2kUw.jpg)

Yeah that intersection definitely looks like it sucks.  I'd probably go far out of my way to avoid it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 20, 2023, 12:22:47 PM

Top 10 Dangerous Intersections in Atlanta You Should Avoid (enjuris.com) (https://www.enjuris.com/blog/ga/most-dangerous-atlanta-intersections/)

1Memorial Drive & North Road, Stone Mountain22
2East Park Place & Stone Mountain Highway, Stone Mountain20
3Covington Highway & Lithonia Road, Lithonia19
4Cobb Place Boulevard & Earnest Barrett Parkway, Kennesaw18
5Jimmy Carter Boulevard & Peachtree Industrial Boulevard, Norcross17
6State Bridge Road & Medlock Bridge Road, Johns Creek15
7Briarcliff Road & North Druid Hills Road, DeKalb County13
8Butner Road & Camp Creek Parkway, Fulton County13
9Steve Reynolds Boulevard & Venture Drive, Duluth13
10Piedmont Avenue & Monroe Drive, Atlanta12

We drive through the last one frequently, the rest are in the 'burbs aside from 7.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 20, 2023, 12:51:30 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/U8EJkEp.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on September 20, 2023, 01:36:35 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 20, 2023, 12:05:37 PM

We've got a standard 4-way stop light right near my house that is HORRIBLY dangerous.

Somehow all four directions are downhill approaching the intersection. 3 lanes each way one direciton, 2 lanes each way the other. Double left turn lanes at all four directions.

Seems to be a collision here near daily, and there have been some VERY nasty ones too.

When going down Alicia from my house, I no longer stay in the right hand lane because people stopping to get into and out of the Arco gas station causes a lot of fender benders; I've actually been rear-ended there before when I had to slow down because people were entering the gas station and the guy behind me didn't notice.

I don't know what makes this one so prone to major accidents except maybe that everything is downhill, but I get nervous every time I approach this intersection--which is bad because my typical routes have me using it VERY frequently.

(https://i.imgur.com/xpj2kUw.jpg)

Based on the lane layouts, sheer volume is one of the reasons for this being a problematic intersection.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 20, 2023, 02:08:21 PM

Quote from: utee94 on September 20, 2023, 12:17:19 PM

Yeah that intersection definitely looks like it sucks.  I'd probably go far out of my way to avoid it. 

What's odd is that this is actually a pretty typical intersection around here. I don't know what leads to such a high crash rate. I'm sure when you came out to Irvine often you'd see that 3 lanes in every direction with double protected left turn lanes was not exactly uncommon...

I think the gas station access tends to lead to more fender benders and minor crashes (as I experienced), but I don't think it explains the many serious crashes that happen here. 

Quote from: GopherRock on September 20, 2023, 01:36:35 PM

Based on the lane layouts, sheer volume is one of the reasons for this being a problematic intersection.

Definitely high volume. But it's SoCal--everywhere is high volume lol. Again, I can think of many other intersections of similar size and high volume in the area that don't have such a high crash rate. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 20, 2023, 02:13:21 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 20, 2023, 02:08:21 PM

I think the gas station access tends to lead to more fender benders and minor crashes (as I experienced), but I don't think it explains the many serious crashes that happen here.
Definitely high volume. But it's SoCal--everywhere is high volume lol. Again, I can think of many other intersections of similar size and high volume in the area that don't have such a high crash rate.

You mentioned all of the approaches are downhill? That contributes. It's harder to stop.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 20, 2023, 02:17:49 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 20, 2023, 02:13:21 PM

You mentioned all of the approaches are downhill? That contributes. It's harder to stop.

Yeah, definitely think that contributes. Especially b/c in addition to being harder to stop downhill, I'd say that a lot of people may be carrying a little more speed coming in hot b/c of the downhill, so there's more stopping power needed. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on September 20, 2023, 03:01:34 PM

Also, the fact that all the approaches are downhill means that depending on where the hill break is, oncoming drivers can't see the signal heads. Which means that many of them are carrying too much speed too late to make an informed decision.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 20, 2023, 03:13:17 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on September 20, 2023, 10:58:55 AM

Interesting.

From my anecdotal experience I thought that crashes were UP because I see plenty of fender-benders.

I assumed that ODOT simply accepted that because the severity of crashes is WAY down because instead of deadly 50 MPH T-Bone crashes you are seeing ~30 MPH merger sideswipes which are highly unlikely to be fatal.

I always assumed they were a way to redirect traffic. Like if I had a neighborhood I wanted people to be slower in/avoid, throw those in. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 20, 2023, 10:48:54 PM

I'd just be happy with drivers making driving their main focus while driving.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 21, 2023, 06:53:13 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 20, 2023, 10:48:54 PM

I'd just be happy with drivers making driving their main focus while driving.

No shit.

I saw a woman driving while eating a bowl of cereal last week. It's bad enough driving around here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 21, 2023, 07:01:05 AM

It’s incredible. 

I have a VERY busy roundabout near my house that I have to use pretty much daily.  

It is scary- people that don’t know how to use it or- this is worse- don’t give a shit about the rules.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 21, 2023, 07:18:09 AM

I forgot about a residential area just north of us, it was started in 1904 when this was farmland.  It has very wide streets which are attractive, and round abouts at most intersections.  I don't know if they were added later, I suspect the "island" in the middle was.  Of course traffic is rather light, it's a nice place to walk or bike, the homes often are impressive.  Some sketchy ones get bought up and demo'd and replaced with a real mansion.  It was a time when land was cheap, especially out here, and they didn't pile houses on top of each other.

I was musing about where a RAB could be constructed anywhere else near us, and I think not.

I could see that going downhill into an intersection might encouarge folks to "beat the light" and get caught on red.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 21, 2023, 07:40:56 AM

Well... Duh.

How U.S. Households Got Turned Upside Down by Higher Interest Rates - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/finance/how-u-s-households-got-turned-upside-down-by-higher-interest-rates-e680d1a1?mod=djem10point)

(https://i.imgur.com/zVYL6wD.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 21, 2023, 08:13:32 AM

What Is the Difference Between an SUV and a Crossover? (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/features/what-is-the-difference-between-an-suv-and-a-crossover/?sm_id=organic%3Asm_id%3Afb%3AMT%3Atrueanthem&fbclid=IwAR2DTgnBF9b4uy0Rctm0ccyo6LW-_ygfrDmoJpk4VU5bMTVyIU23LiOWUig)

If you were a Jeopardy contestant and shouted "What is the difference between an SUV and a Crossover?" Alex would announce, "Correct!" You'd win the $300, and then shoot a knowing wink at the home audience. Saying that SUVs ride on ladder frames and crossovers have unibodies is the simplest, correct-est answer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 21, 2023, 08:58:07 AM

What is-- SUVs are useful.  Crossovers are ugly and stupid?

CORRECT, what category next, utee94?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on September 21, 2023, 09:00:24 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 20, 2023, 10:48:54 PM

I'd just be happy with drivers making driving their main focus while driving.

Having spent a great deal of time on the side of Twin Cities freeways, I wholeheartedly agree.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 21, 2023, 09:04:20 AM

so, a pickup truck has a ladder frame?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 21, 2023, 09:21:46 AM

My F150 does.  Body-on-frame construction.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on September 21, 2023, 09:31:45 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 21, 2023, 06:53:13 AM

No shit.

I saw a woman driving while eating a bowl of cereal last week. It's bad enough driving around here.

Beats the women I occasionally catch putting on their makeup, looking at themselves in the visor mirror.  

I wonder how many can no longer be seen doing that because they got removed from the gene pool already.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 21, 2023, 09:34:56 AM

Quote from: utee94 on September 21, 2023, 09:21:46 AM

My F150 does.  Body-on-frame construction.

Most pickups and SUVs based on them are body on frame, as noted in the article.  That has some advantages, and dis of course depending on usage.  If you want a vehicle to drive around town and on trips on the freeway with no towing, the monocoque is going to be better.

If you need to tow or go off road ....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 21, 2023, 09:44:27 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 21, 2023, 09:34:56 AM

Most pickups and SUVs based on them are body on frame, as noted in the article.  That has some advantages, and dis of course depending on usage.  If you want a vehicle to drive around town and on trips on the freeway with no towing, the monocoque is going to be better.

If you need to tow or go off road ....

Body on frame is superior for heavy payloads in the bed, as well.

But for me, it's mostly the towing and a little off-road.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 21, 2023, 09:48:22 AM

Interestingly, the Airstream travel trailer is a semi-monocoque.  It has a light steel ladder frame, but the upper exterior aluminum shell and bottom aluminum bellypan are constructed in such a way that they assume some of the support of the vehicle as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 21, 2023, 09:49:10 AM

smart

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 21, 2023, 12:02:40 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on September 21, 2023, 07:01:05 AM

It’s incredible.

I have a VERY busy roundabout near my house that I have to use pretty much daily. 

It is scary- people that don’t know how to use it or- this is worse- don’t give a shit about the rules. 

I find the differing roundabouts problematic.  Some have the inner lane have the option to turn off onto a certain road, but when in that lane, I have ZERO confidence the driver in the outer lane realizes it and may try to continue around, thus having me turn into them while it being their fault.
I simply don't think the average person can handle them.

(https://i.imgur.com/OSZyQDk.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 21, 2023, 05:51:48 PM

The French can handle them.  I saw we can too.  Maybe not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 23, 2023, 07:26:13 AM

Badge,HB,Mdot - WTF
https://nypost.com/2023/09/22/10-foot-alligator-caught-carrying-lifeless-floridian-down-a-canal/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 23, 2023, 07:33:04 AM

Damn, it grew 4 feet in the time it takes the article to load!

There are no such thing as runaway dogs in FL.  Just missing, eaten dogs.  And people, apparently.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 23, 2023, 07:34:25 AM

I'm not moving there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 23, 2023, 07:37:28 AM

Track Space Craft on Mars

This visualization shows the current location and communication activity of all operating landers, rovers, and orbiters at Mars that transmit data to Earth via NASA’s Mars Relay Network.

https://mars.nasa.gov/explore/mars-now/ (https://mars.nasa.gov/explore/mars-now/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on September 23, 2023, 07:45:30 AM

No need to kill that gator - could have relocated him in a petting zoo behind Brandon's house

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 23, 2023, 08:50:07 AM

Just another thing to bite the secret service guys.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 24, 2023, 11:09:07 AM

Fresh concept emerges for Georgia Tech's revised football stadium | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/images-georgia-tech-bobby-dodd-football-stadium-expansion)

$82 million upgrade at Tech, which is badly needed.  The stadium dates from 1913 and looks like it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 24, 2023, 11:19:35 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 23, 2023, 07:37:28 AM

Track Space Craft on Mars

This visualization shows the current location and communication activity of all operating landers, rovers, and orbiters at Mars that transmit data to Earth via NASA’s Mars Relay Network.

https://mars.nasa.gov/explore/mars-now/ (https://mars.nasa.gov/explore/mars-now/)

I'm not moving there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 24, 2023, 02:37:47 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/iLTYFpk.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 24, 2023, 02:38:52 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/HHPABAM.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 24, 2023, 02:39:33 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/ujmUXS1.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 24, 2023, 02:40:29 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/RaYkUye.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 25, 2023, 07:48:00 AM

The Hunza Valley, found in the Pakistan-controlled region of Kashmir, contains a type of glacier water known as the "fountain of youth." People who live in the valley have an average life span of 90 years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 25, 2023, 08:19:31 AM

Water is water, it often contains various impurities, most of which are bad for you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 25, 2023, 08:43:07 AM

but follow the science......... average life span of 90 years

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 25, 2023, 08:54:56 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 25, 2023, 08:43:07 AM

but follow the science......... average life span of 90 years

I'd look into their diet and lifestyle, rather than the mysterious glacier water.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 25, 2023, 09:09:28 AM

A KEY step in science is to consider all plausible explanations consistent with the data (and to confirm "data"), leading to a second step.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 25, 2023, 09:41:35 AM

nonsense 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 25, 2023, 07:53:17 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 25, 2023, 07:48:00 AM

The Hunza Valley, found in the Pakistan-controlled region of Kashmir, contains a type of glacier water known as the "fountain of youth." People who live in the valley have an average life span of 90 years.

Bottle it.  Sell it.  Enjoy your 90 years.  
How do you say "snake oil" in Pakistani?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on September 26, 2023, 09:57:36 PM

https://twitter.com/unusual_whales/status/1706746523911176566?t=5PGyRCOgVAPGjPy7W7RwKg&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on September 26, 2023, 10:01:08 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 25, 2023, 07:53:17 PM

Bottle it.  Sell it.  Enjoy your 90 years. 
How do you say "snake oil" in Pakistani?

I feel like the focus has rightfully shifted to good years over longevity.  I had two great grandmothers live to be 98 and 97.  They were unable to care for themselves from about the age of 75, and I don't think they knew where they were after 85.  Rather than extending their lives to nearly 100, I wish we had worried more about their quality of life in their 60s, 70s and 80s

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 27, 2023, 12:02:22 AM

I was just thinking about this on my drive home from work today.

Thinking about retirement stuff and this and that.....if you don't make it to 55 or 65 or whatever your magic number is in good health, then what was the point if you only start to enjoy it then?

I want to die the moment I can't take care of myself.
Take my body and do whatever's cheapest to get rid of it.
Whoever is saddest I'm gone can decide what to do in terms of a ceremony.  

All of that stuff is for the living, not for the deceased.  
I'd rather have 60 good years than 90 'normal' ones where I deteriorate badly for the last 20.

Ralph Kiner career > Craig Biggio 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 27, 2023, 07:42:39 AM

Quote from: ELA on September 26, 2023, 09:57:36 PM

https://twitter.com/unusual_whales/status/1706746523911176566?t=5PGyRCOgVAPGjPy7W7RwKg&s=19

This should surprise nobody, but it will - and there will be manufactured outrage, made for TV.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 27, 2023, 08:05:38 AM

defund sanctuary cities

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on September 27, 2023, 08:16:17 AM

Pirates on San Francisco Bay?   Gov. Face needs to draw his cutlass and get out there!



https://www.foxnews.com/us/seabound-bandits-terrorize-san-francisco-bay-amid-surge-homeless-camps (https://www.foxnews.com/us/seabound-bandits-terrorize-san-francisco-bay-amid-surge-homeless-camps)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 27, 2023, 08:17:17 AM

(https://scontent-msp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/381933246_818772876918541_7144292913476438207_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5614bc&_nc_ohc=TkZyn7GWyqEAX9BxQKn&_nc_ht=scontent-msp1-1.xx&oh=00_AfCf-ukwu0XrZnlUu-rhUCdm2cjN9FaDwRoyVQh2SqxBQA&oe=65191B14)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 27, 2023, 08:27:35 AM

I really don't have an understanding of this stuff.

https://www.wsj.com/finance/currencies/the-worlds-biggest-crypto-firm-is-melting-down-338b8e17?st=glt9bjv7erh14gr&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 27, 2023, 08:49:44 AM

hopefully, won't affect me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on September 27, 2023, 11:09:45 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 27, 2023, 12:02:22 AM

I was just thinking about this on my drive home from work today.

Thinking about retirement stuff and this and that.....if you don't make it to 55 or 65 or whatever your magic number is in good health, then what was the point if you only start to enjoy it then?

I want to die the moment I can't take care of myself.
Take my body and do whatever's cheapest to get rid of it.
Whoever is saddest I'm gone can decide what to do in terms of a ceremony. 

All of that stuff is for the living, not for the deceased. 
I'd rather have 60 good years than 90 'normal' ones where I deteriorate badly for the last 20.

Ralph Kiner career > Craig Biggio

Which is why My wife and I are retiring early (Well me not so early).  My wife's late husband died at 59, her brother retired and was dead 3 months later.  We have decided we are retiring and going to enjoy what we can as we can. Next years "retirement" date can't come soon enough, already have 3 trips planned next year including 30 days over in Europe. 

BTW I don't think deteriorating badly has to be "normal".  I know too many people in their 80s still going strong. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 27, 2023, 11:14:20 AM

Drones may be the answer to Sarasota's traffic congestion woes (heraldtribune.com) (https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/opinion/columns/2023/09/27/drones-may-be-the-answer-to-sarasotas-traffic-congestion-woes/70968704007/)

There's a reason people don't come here anymore. It's too crowded.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 27, 2023, 11:15:40 AM

The key single item in retirement I think is being able to walk (aside from brain issues).  If you can walk, do it, a lot, as you age.  Retire some place that encourages you to get out and about.  

Like everyone, I see folks 80+ out walking, at least slowly, and they can manage pretty well, and others maybe 65 or less, who may be obese and using carts to navigate Walmart etc.  

Obviously some stretching and light resistance work is also great.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 27, 2023, 11:56:38 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 27, 2023, 11:14:20 AM

Drones may be the answer to Sarasota's traffic congestion woes (heraldtribune.com) (https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/opinion/columns/2023/09/27/drones-may-be-the-answer-to-sarasotas-traffic-congestion-woes/70968704007/)

There's a reason people don't come here anymore. It's too crowded.

Hey @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) , if you don't mind me asking, are you in Sarasota?  

I ask because my maternal grandparents spent the winters there from around 1970.  I'm somewhat familiar with the area from trips dating back to the late 1970's when I was a little kid.  

On the subject of the post, Mr. Carrier's invention sure has changed the way we live, hasn't it?  

When I first went to Florida it had a lower population than Ohio:

• In the 1960 census Ohio had just under 10M people and Florida was about half that at just under 5M.  
• In the 62 years since Ohio has added about 2M and is now just under 12M, Florida has added more than 17M and is now over 22M.  

When you just keep growing and growing that much for that long, congestion is going to be an issue.  

More specifically related to Sarasota County, when I was a kid Sarasota County had around 150k people and that has trebled.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 27, 2023, 12:35:21 PM

We are halfway between Naples and Sarasota, but we can get to Sarasota much faster due to traffic.

(https://i.imgur.com/SmSLBJD.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 27, 2023, 12:44:15 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 27, 2023, 12:35:21 PM

We are halfway between Naples and Sarasota, but we can get to Sarasota much faster due to traffic.

[img width=274.381 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/SmSLBJD.png[/img]

I remember going to Edison's Winter Home down there ~40 years ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 27, 2023, 12:49:42 PM

We generally do not go South. I think I've been across that river maybe 10 times, not counting travel to the airport. 

We have yet to see the Edison house. We've not been to FM Beach, Sanibel or Captiva since Ian, and we won't. Gotta leave them alone.

We had friends in Bonita Springs (next to Naples) but they just bought up here because they like it better (mainly the people).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 27, 2023, 01:48:44 PM

Florida man.

Florida man bit 41 times by rabid otter, report says (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/florida-man-bit-41-times-by-rabid-otter-report-says/ar-AA1hjalh?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=eb0f963741c74db1887bf5926dfdd7f9&ei=37)

(https://i.imgur.com/v3NnGd8.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 27, 2023, 01:56:35 PM

Did he bite it back?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 27, 2023, 02:02:09 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 27, 2023, 01:56:35 PM

Did he bite it back?

No.

So not a true Florida man then.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on September 27, 2023, 03:08:40 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 27, 2023, 01:48:44 PM

Florida man.

Florida man bit 41 times by rabid otter, report says (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/florida-man-bit-41-times-by-rabid-otter-report-says/ar-AA1hjalh?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=eb0f963741c74db1887bf5926dfdd7f9&ei=37)

(https://i.imgur.com/v3NnGd8.png)

I assume after the first bite, he thought, well that's the one.  I get it, you encounter an animal in their habitat.  But I enjoy that he gave that animal 40 more chances to move along without realizing this animal was just going to keep biting him

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on September 27, 2023, 03:14:42 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 27, 2023, 12:35:21 PM

We are halfway between Naples and Sarasota, but we can get to Sarasota much faster due to traffic.

(https://i.imgur.com/SmSLBJD.png)

My parents have become snow birds, living closer to Fort Myers than Naples, but I think we are taking the kids down this March to see some Red Sox spring training games.  I'm a little jealous of my sister and her husband, who now both work mostly remotely, and don't have kids, so they go down for 2 weeks and work from there.

We have some friends that spent the whole virtual semester in Savannah, because they could both work remotely, and the Fall 2020 semester, all schools offered the full virtual option.  Granted I do not miss trying to make a 5 and 7 year old learn math.  It was this, except I neither went to school, not signed up for it

https://youtu.be/dqQK6HtDmV4?si=wCoNEvNBSN4E1ihP

And for the record, my wife is a teacher, and she signs off on this video

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 27, 2023, 03:14:56 PM

I recall as a kid being told that if you got rabies, the treatment involved multiple shots into your stomach.

I'd rather just go ahead of be afraid of water.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on September 27, 2023, 03:17:12 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 27, 2023, 03:14:56 PM

I recall as a kid being told that if you got rabies, the treatment involved multiple shots into your stomach.

I'd rather just go ahead of be afraid of water.

Things like that, and how to escape quicksand are things that very much might be true, but probably aren't, and I'm too old to ask my parents whether they were shitting me, because I'm 40

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on September 27, 2023, 03:22:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 27, 2023, 03:14:56 PM

I recall as a kid being told that if you got rabies, the treatment involved multiple shots into your stomach.

This is true. A co-worker got bitten by a bat a few years ago, and spent much of the next four days getting multiple giant-needle shots while going from one room at Mayo to another.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 27, 2023, 03:28:23 PM

Did they check the bat or was this precautionary?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 27, 2023, 03:29:22 PM

I actually was bit by a rattlesnake when I was 20, it was a timber rattlesnake.

After three days of pure agony, the snake died.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on September 27, 2023, 03:29:46 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 27, 2023, 03:28:23 PM

Did they check the bat or was this precautionary?

That requires catching the bat.  Which both Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger could tell you is tough to do

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 27, 2023, 03:30:59 PM

I've caught a few bats.  Tennis rackets are useful 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 27, 2023, 03:31:24 PM

Postexposure prophylaxis (PEP) consists of a dose of human rabies immune globulin (HRIG) (https://www.cdc.gov/rabies/medical_care/hrig.html) and rabies vaccine (https://www.cdc.gov/rabies/medical_care/vaccine.html) given on the day of the rabies exposure, and then a dose of vaccine given again on days 3, 7, and 14. For people who have never been vaccinated against rabies previously, postexposure prophylaxis (PEP) should always include administration of both HRIG and rabies vaccine. The combination of HRIG and vaccine is recommended for both bite and non-bite exposures, regardless of the interval between exposure and initiation of treatment.

People who have been previously vaccinated or are receiving pre-exposure vaccination (https://www.cdc.gov/rabies/prevention/pre-exposure_vaccinations.html) for rabies should receive only vaccine.

Adverse reactions to rabies vaccine and immune globulin are not common. Newer vaccines in use today cause fewer adverse reactions than previously available vaccines. Mild, local reactions to the rabies vaccine, such as pain, redness, swelling, or itching at the injection site, have been reported. Rarely, symptoms such as headache, nausea, abdominal pain, muscle aches, and dizziness have been reported. Local pain and low-grade fever may follow injection of rabies immune globulin.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 27, 2023, 03:33:54 PM

What's it like: To get a rabies shot (oklahoman.com) (https://www.oklahoman.com/story/lifestyle/health-fitness/2013/07/14/whats-it-like-to-get-a-rabies-shot/60899910007/)

Several years ago, treatment for rabies included 21 injections into a person's stomach. It was extremely painful and involved a long needle. However, since the early 1980s, there's a much different rabies vaccine to treat humans for rabies exposure.

Generally, to treat rabies, you're given a dose of human rabies immune globulin, which provides immediate antibodies until your body can respond to the vaccine and produce its own antibodies.
You're also given four doses of rabies vaccine. Generally, you're given a shot on the day of the exposure, and then again on days three, seven and 14. The vaccine is given in a muscle, usually in the upper arm. This set of vaccinations has proved to be highly effective at preventing rabies if given as soon as possible after an exposure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on September 27, 2023, 03:50:20 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 27, 2023, 03:28:23 PM

Did they check the bat or was this precautionary?

It was precautionary.


It also came on the back side of a bachelor party on a Mississippi River houseboat which featured 3 full days of hard drinking. Adding a stint at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester was merely adding insult to the injury of severe hangover.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 27, 2023, 04:37:11 PM

Quote from: ELA on September 27, 2023, 03:29:46 PM

That requires catching the bat.  Which both Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger could tell you is tough to do

Don't start.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 27, 2023, 07:01:42 PM

Oh man, Wuhan leaked rabies?!?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 28, 2023, 07:29:30 AM

The German word "Kummerspeck" literally translates to "grief bacon" or "sorrow fat." It refers to weight gain due to emotional eating.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 28, 2023, 08:18:15 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 27, 2023, 03:30:59 PM

I've caught a few bats.  Tennis rackets are useful

Same here. We've had multiple bats in rentals and tennis rackets work great.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 28, 2023, 09:14:24 AM

I think I've noticed kickoffs going further over the past 30 years or so, and they of course moved the line back.  I have not noticed punts going further, maybe I'm wrong.  Is this the effect of soccer or the soccer style kickoff?

Mizzou kicker last week nailed a 61 yarder that looked to be good from 65+.

Maybe rugby will have a similar impact on punting?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 28, 2023, 02:04:23 PM

Multifunction printer on a budget question...

When I regularly worked in my office, I always had access to a scanner and color laser printer. Now that I primarily WFH, and we don't have a printer at home, it can get a little annoying. Especially when I find out on short notice I have to print some stupid thing for kids/school. 

I'm looking at the decision of a color inkjet model vs a monochrome laser printer. I haven't owned a printer in over a decade, so I don't know where the current technology is. But pricing for laser printers (at least monochrome) is quite reasonable. 

I don't print often, and my bias from the past is that inkjet is just a constant hassle with ink cartridges drying out from lack of use, being expensive to replace, and generally being an annoying user experience. I've long preferred laser to avoid that, and because the output looks more crisp as well, but given that "budget" laser printers didn't exist when I looked in the past, I don't know if they're as good as what I remember about laser printers or if they're just as much a nightmare as budget inkjets.

Thoughts?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 28, 2023, 02:09:53 PM

I bought a Brother Laser B&W printer a few years back, I think it was around $100 which seemed like a real deal.  It has worked fine, I replaced the cartridge once (the one it comes with is light on toner).  It scans and copies.  I thought about the color version which was $200, I think, but was cheap.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 28, 2023, 02:26:05 PM

Interesting. If I get rid of the scanner requirement there's one color laser I can find for $199. However a set of all four color toners is another $200 if I need to replace them :'(

So maybe that's not gonna work. 

But glad to hear that you've had good luck with a very budget printer. 

And the Brother monochrome one I'm looking at has a much more reasonable toner replacement cost... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 28, 2023, 02:29:55 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/ZvvMJed.png)


This is what I use. Paper up to 11x17 and scan up to 11x17.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 28, 2023, 02:35:47 PM

Thanks. I assume you have more need for 11x17 than I would. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 28, 2023, 02:37:10 PM

I've had good luck with a home color laser but I did NOT combine with scanning.

The all-in-one is a great idea in theory but (IMHO) in practice it just means that you have to pay for a new scanner every time your printer quits.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 28, 2023, 02:38:28 PM

The only thing that sucks about separating your printer and scanner is that making a copy is a multi-step process.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 28, 2023, 02:44:00 PM

I don't have room for two devices. Hell, I don't have room for one! So I definitely want a combo unit. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 28, 2023, 02:47:11 PM

Make sure it comes with a fax machine too.











;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 28, 2023, 03:10:10 PM

I think "they" sell printers near cost to get you hooked on cartridges.  It's best if there are off brands available for replacement.

I used to have an HP inkjet printer that cost a fortune replacing the ink, and I mostly used it for B&W printing anyway.  My wife has a color printer on her rig.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 28, 2023, 03:15:55 PM

I've had this printer for 42 months - no issues at all.

Probably spend $100/year on ink. It gets a lot of use for my business.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on September 28, 2023, 04:25:38 PM

https://www.officedepot.com/a/products/7049485/Epson-EcoTank-ET-2800-All-in/

Epson Eco Tank.  Ink lasts forever, no bullshit expensive cartridges to refill.  Scanner works fine.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 28, 2023, 04:28:01 PM

Quote from: Gigem on September 28, 2023, 04:25:38 PM

https://www.officedepot.com/a/products/7049485/Epson-EcoTank-ET-2800-All-in/

Epson Eco Tank.  Ink lasts forever, no bullshit expensive cartridges to refill.  Scanner works fine. 

Let me run that one by my IT guy:


(https://i.imgur.com/0AexCcs.jpg)

Oh wait, I'm my own IT guy :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 28, 2023, 04:38:26 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 28, 2023, 04:28:01 PM

Let me run that one by my IT guy:



Oh wait, I'm my own IT guy :57:

If you're anything like me, you're not only your own IT guy, you're the IT guy for your aging parents, and your aging inlaws, and your sister, and your brother, and your tech-incompetent friends, and sometimes the next door neighbor or guy down the street.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on September 28, 2023, 04:47:51 PM

I like the Brother monotone laser i have.   ...w scanning/copying. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 28, 2023, 04:48:48 PM

Quote from: utee94 on September 28, 2023, 04:38:26 PM

If you're anything like me, you're not only your own IT guy, you're the IT guy for your aging parents, and your aging inlaws, and your sister, and your brother, and your tech-incompetent friends, and sometimes the next door neighbor or guy down the street. 

At least you guys are actually in tech. A lot of us are the IT guy for our parents and in-laws despite NOT being in tech.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 28, 2023, 05:00:33 PM

Quote from: utee94 on September 28, 2023, 04:38:26 PM

If you're anything like me, you're not only your own IT guy, you're the IT guy for your aging parents, and your aging inlaws, and your sister, and your brother, and your tech-incompetent friends, and sometimes the next door neighbor or guy down the street. 

I was. Now I don't answer my phone, and it's been SO much better. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 28, 2023, 05:05:48 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on September 28, 2023, 04:48:48 PM

At least you guys are actually in tech. A lot of us are the IT guy for our parents and in-laws despite NOT being in tech.

I try to hide it from anyone new that I meet.  I already have enough IT clients, I'm not taking on any new ones. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 28, 2023, 05:15:47 PM

I just call my kids.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 28, 2023, 09:18:46 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 28, 2023, 04:28:01 PM

Let me run that one by my IT guy:


(https://i.imgur.com/0AexCcs.jpg)

Oh wait, I'm my own IT guy :57:

I spent a FORTUNE on cartridges for 2 years on Whoa Nellie orders before buying one of these.  Now, ink cost is probably negligible.  
It's insane how much you can print in comparison.  Cartridges are criminal.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 29, 2023, 05:17:49 AM

A while back, we got a building wide email from a resident wanting help in setting up a printer.  I demurred.

I bought a new stereo receiver a while back and it was tough enough to set up, it was a bit crazy with all the stuff on the back panel, most of which of course I'd never use.  I gaze at the new TVs in Costco each visit and then think about setting one up in the house.  Nope.  Even cars today can be "set up" and personalized.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 29, 2023, 06:53:44 AM

As a kid, I worried about quicksand a lot, rabies, polio, being shot at in some war (which curiously sounded alluring at age 7), amd snakes of course, a lot about snakes.

The mosquito already kills more people every year than any other creature does, and the toll is rising. Malaria deaths rose about 8 percent between 2019 and 2021, the first increases in decades.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 29, 2023, 07:02:25 AM

Charlotte County ranked fifth-fastest growing region in the nation - Gulfshore Business (https://www.gulfshorebusiness.com/charlotte-county-ranked-fifth-fastest-growing-region-in-the-nation/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 29, 2023, 07:07:52 AM

These Are the Fastest-Growing Counties in the US - Marketing Charts (https://www.marketingcharts.com/demographics-and-audiences-229290)

The Census Bureau release also identified the 10 counties with the largest numeric increase in population between 2021 and 2022. Counties in Texas occupied 6 of the top 10 spots, followed by Florida with 3 and Arizona the other. Maricopa County in Arizona was the fastest-growing in terms of numeric growth, adding 56,831 to its population, followed by Harris County in Texas (+45,626) and Collin County in Texas (+44,246).

In terms of percentage growth year-over-year, and limiting the analysis to counties with a resident population of at least 20,000, the Census Bureau finds that Whitman County in Washington was the fastest-growing last year, and the only to break the double-digit mark (+10.1%). It was followed by Kaufman County in Texas (+8.9%), Sumter County in Florida (+7.5%), Dawson County in Georgia (+5.8%) and Lumpkin County, also in Georgia (+5.8%). Not surprisingly, the counties with the biggest relative growth tended to be smaller ones, with none featuring more than 200,000 residents in 2022. For context, about one-fifth (19.5%) of US counties have a population of at least 100,000.

Turning to declines, and large counties – not surprisingly – feature on the list of those with the biggest numerical declines, led by the 2 largest counties, LA County (-90,704) and Cook County (-68,314). Rounding out the top 5 were 3 counties in New York: Queens County (-50,112), Kings County (-46,970), and Bronx County (-41,143).

Given the size of these counties (the top 4 each with at least 2.5 million residents), these declines were only a small fraction of their total population. On a percentage basis, Lassen County in California (-6%) had the largest decline, followed by 3 counties in Louisiana: St. John the Baptist Parish (-5.1%); Terrebonne Parish (-3.9%); and Plaquemines Parish (-3.3%).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 29, 2023, 07:31:25 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 29, 2023, 07:07:52 AM

These Are the Fastest-Growing Counties in the US - Marketing Charts (https://www.marketingcharts.com/demographics-and-audiences-229290)

The Census Bureau release also identified the 10 counties with the largest numeric increase in population between 2021 and 2022. Counties in Texas occupied 6 of the top 10 spots, followed by Florida with 3 and Arizona the other. Maricopa County in Arizona was the fastest-growing in terms of numeric growth, adding 56,831 to its population, followed by Harris County in Texas (+45,626) and Collin County in Texas (+44,246).

In terms of percentage growth year-over-year, and limiting the analysis to counties with a resident population of at least 20,000, the Census Bureau finds that Whitman County in Washington was the fastest-growing last year, and the only to break the double-digit mark (+10.1%). It was followed by Kaufman County in Texas (+8.9%), Sumter County in Florida (+7.5%), Dawson County in Georgia (+5.8%) and Lumpkin County, also in Georgia (+5.8%). Not surprisingly, the counties with the biggest relative growth tended to be smaller ones, with none featuring more than 200,000 residents in 2022. For context, about one-fifth (19.5%) of US counties have a population of at least 100,000.

Turning to declines, and large counties – not surprisingly – feature on the list of those with the biggest numerical declines, led by the 2 largest counties, LA County (-90,704) and Cook County (-68,314). Rounding out the top 5 were 3 counties in New York: Queens County (-50,112), Kings County (-46,970), and Bronx County (-41,143).

Given the size of these counties (the top 4 each with at least 2.5 million residents), these declines were only a small fraction of their total population. On a percentage basis, Lassen County in California (-6%) had the largest decline, followed by 3 counties in Louisiana: St. John the Baptist Parish (-5.1%); Terrebonne Parish (-3.9%); and Plaquemines Parish (-3.3%).

There are subsets to these number that nobody likes to talk about.

People are leaving. Simple, right? Well, no it's not.

Who is leaving, and how many tax dollars are going with them?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 29, 2023, 07:34:01 AM

How will we ever get over not being wanted in these countries?

“Stay Away!” – 8 Countries Where Americans Aren’t Wanted (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/stay-away-8-countries-where-americans-aren-t-wanted/ss-AA1hp9ff?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=2a6aef627d97489d8cb385004dd36127&ei=7#image=2)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 29, 2023, 08:22:49 AM

Yet some Americans feel like they need to visit or vacation in those countries 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 29, 2023, 08:32:09 AM

They should just move. They're great.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 29, 2023, 08:56:57 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 29, 2023, 07:31:25 AM

There are subsets to these number that nobody likes to talk about.

People are leaving. Simple, right? Well, no it's not.

Who is leaving, and how many tax dollars are going with them?

These areas have elected pro-crime leaders and that chases the productive classes away. Chicago went all-in on pro-crime and the city is a war zone.

This would all be hilarious if it were not so deadly (literally) serious. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 29, 2023, 09:06:53 AM

So, I've been to one of them.

I've also been on Oman, which is the most obscure place I've ever visited.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 29, 2023, 10:40:44 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 29, 2023, 07:31:25 AM

People are leaving. Simple, right? Well, no it's not.

Who is leaving, and how many tax dollars are going with them?

It's an interesting question... I'm not sure it's who I suspect you're thinking of (the rich and business owners). 

I suspect that those people are rich enough to live in the nicer areas and be insulated from all the negative stuff we've talked about endlessly. If you've got a lot of money, LA County is a terrific place to live. 

I think the ones that are leaving are those in the middle to upper middle class who, due to cost, can't "get ahead" in those places, but have enough job mobility to relocate to a lower-cost area for higher quality of life. Especially those who are raising families.

I.e. for my rent I could move out of my 1200 sf 3bdr house on a postage stamp lot and buy a house next to @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) -- with likely a lower monthly take despite higher property taxes once you account for the fact that I'd no longer pay state income tax.

(Granted I'm not in LA County of course, so I'm not exactly who you're talking about.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 29, 2023, 11:12:37 AM

The money is walking away. 

Whether it's out of state or to another county in the state or to another city in the county that's safer.

It's leaving the troubled areas, which will cause more trouble, as there will be less money in property and sales tax coming in. Stores are closing. Gas stations are closing. None of this is good for anyone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 29, 2023, 11:32:31 AM

The truly wealthy can live anywhere just fine.  As noted, the middle and upper middle get squeezed.  And they have collectively more money than the one percent.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on September 29, 2023, 12:05:14 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 29, 2023, 10:40:44 AM

It's an interesting question... I'm not sure it's who I suspect you're thinking of (the rich and business owners).

I suspect that those people are rich enough to live in the nicer areas and be insulated from all the negative stuff we've talked about endlessly. If you've got a lot of money, LA County is a terrific place to live.

I think the ones that are leaving are those in the middle to upper middle class who, due to cost, can't "get ahead" in those places, but have enough job mobility to relocate to a lower-cost area for higher quality of life. Especially those who are raising families.

I.e. for my rent I could move out of my 1200 sf 3bdr house on a postage stamp lot and buy a house next to @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) -- with likely a lower monthly take despite higher property taxes once you account for the fact that I'd no longer pay state income tax.

(Granted I'm not in LA County of course, so I'm not exactly who you're talking about.)

My next door neighbor is actually selling and moving out to the lake.

But don't get any ideas...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 29, 2023, 12:16:05 PM

@betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) and @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) make a VERY important point. It isn't the super rich who face the consequences of pro-crime policies. They have gates and guards to insulate themselves from the consequences. The middle and upper middle classes are the ones who get squeezed along with the poor, of course. The poor can't do anything about it but the middle and upper middle class can. It is why we have sprawling suburbs. The middle class and up were forced to abandon city life by the high crime rates.

For a while we got control of it. Far-left NYC elected tough-on-crime Republicans then Republicans-turned-independents in five consecutive Mayoral elections and NYC went from a war-zone when I visited in 1994 to a very pleasant and livable place a few years ago. Now, unfortunately, they are heading back.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 29, 2023, 12:25:23 PM

NYC also had strict gun laws and stop and frisk options for police back when.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 29, 2023, 12:30:45 PM

There also is my point that INCOME taxes may not impact the truly wealthy.  Imagine I live in CA and own $100 million in some company, and I need $2 million a year in cash to "survive".  I can borrow off my $100 million for the cash, if the company is growing at 2+%, I can do that indefinitely.  I have zero income to be taxed.  So the state top tax rate if 13.3%?  That gouges folks who have a salary, but not me.

Maybe after 50 more years I am borrowed out, or not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 29, 2023, 12:33:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 29, 2023, 12:25:23 PM

NYC also had strict gun laws and stop and frisk options for police back when.

The gun laws aren't materially different.  

Stop and frisk is gone so the lower classes are MUCH more likely to carry since they have little to fear from the police.  This becomes a feedback loop because when the worst of them carry then more of the not-quite worst carry for self defense then more of the next group carry for self defense, etc.  

Not only is stop-and-frisk gone but shoplifting has been effectively legalized and police interactions have fallen off a cliff because the officers have more to fear from the criminals than the criminals have to fear from the police so the cops have retreated to the donut shop (I don't blame them) and the criminal class is settling their own disputes.  

In-and-of itself, I honestly wouldn't care about the above.  If Tony Soprano and Tony Montana want to settle their beef with bullets, the world is frankly better off without either of them so great.  The problem is that the criminal class doesn't actually engage in precision "wackings".  Instead, they generally utilize spray-and-pray tactics against a person or people who "dissed" them and these spray-and-pray shootings result in insane collateral damage.  

Thus you have war zones in the big cities.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 29, 2023, 12:39:01 PM

They are different from here:

Residents of NYC who wish to obtain a firearms license must apply online through the New York Police Department (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Police_Department) License Division.^{[40] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_York#cite_note-PERMITS-AND-LICENSES-NYPD-40)}
There are currently six types of pistol licenses: Premise License, Carry Business License, Limited Carry Business License, Special Carry License, Carry Guard License, and Law Enforcement Retiree License.^{[41] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_York#cite_note-NYPD-LICENSING-FAQ-41)}
NYC premises-only licenses are the licenses issued to average citizens who cannot show a need for self-defense greater than any other average citizen. They are clearly marked: RESTRICTED - NOT FOR CARRY. Most licenses issued in NYC are for on-premises possession only, for self-defense within the home or business.
Security guards and business people who regularly carry valuables may be issued a Restricted Business Carry License which is valid only while conducting the business specifically as it was described, in great detail, on the application for the license.
There is also a rifle/shotgun permit, issued for the purchase and possession of rifles and shotguns.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 29, 2023, 12:52:51 PM

I prefer to stay were I live now. Almost every home around my area has multiple firearms and people proficient in their use. We also have almost zero crime in our area. I wonder if there is a correlation? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 29, 2023, 07:21:42 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 29, 2023, 11:32:31 AM

The truly wealthy can live anywhere just fine.  As noted, the middle and upper middle get squeezed.  And they have collectively more money than the one percent.

For how much longer?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on September 29, 2023, 08:29:14 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 29, 2023, 12:25:23 PM

NYC also had strict gun laws and stop and frisk options for police back when.

Oh stop and frisk. What a profoundly unAmerican thing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 30, 2023, 05:42:37 AM

Wealth distribution U.S. 2023 | Statista (https://www.statista.com/statistics/203961/wealth-distribution-for-the-us/#:~:text=In the second quarter of,percent of the total wealth.)

According to this, the top one percent own 18.6% of the total wealth in the US.  The 50-99% group owns over 66%.  That second group would include high income earners, and thus folks who pay income taxes.  This is why Buffet says he pays a lower tax rate than his secretary.  He or she earns a nice income I'd guess.  He only has unearned income of any consequence, maybe he gets a salary but it's inconsequential to his wealth.

When you are poorer, you often face significant barriers to getting wealthier.  You take out loans, or car leases, and can never really get ahead of the game without significant sacrifice.  You may have to shop at more expensive stores because of location and inability to access a "walmart".  You can't really buy in bulk.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2023, 08:59:50 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 29, 2023, 07:21:42 PM

For how much longer?

If the Coastal elites and their cronies in DC had their way?

Today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 30, 2023, 09:20:27 AM

heard on the radio earlier this week in Eastern Iowa

to be top 1% in Iowa the 9th state in the ranking...... you only need to make $450,000/year

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on September 30, 2023, 09:21:51 AM

No need to turn on ryder cup either. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 30, 2023, 09:22:35 AM

fer sure

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2023, 09:32:39 AM

Quote from: MarqHusker on September 30, 2023, 09:21:51 AM

No need to turn on ryder cup either.

They getting their asses kicked as expected?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on September 30, 2023, 09:35:19 AM

I saw a 9&7 score.    Does that answer your question?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2023, 09:40:32 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/e9N2COy.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 30, 2023, 10:30:53 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2023, 09:40:32 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/e9N2COy.png)

Embarrassing 😳

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 30, 2023, 10:31:56 AM

I was oblivious, so it didn't embarass me at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on September 30, 2023, 10:32:46 AM

Being poor is very expensive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 30, 2023, 10:45:29 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2023, 08:59:50 AM

If the Coastal elites and their cronies in DC had their way?

Today.

Never thought you a puppet until now.
Where do you live again?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 30, 2023, 10:48:13 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 30, 2023, 05:42:37 AM

Wealth distribution U.S. 2023 | Statista (https://www.statista.com/statistics/203961/wealth-distribution-for-the-us/#:~:text=In the second quarter of,percent of the total wealth.)

According to this, the top one percent own 18.6% of the total wealth in the US.  The 50-99% group owns over 66%.  

You specified middle and upper-middle.  That'd be more like the 30-60%, right?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 30, 2023, 10:49:54 AM

I mentioned they had more wealth than the top one percent.  I stated that the middle and upper middle get clipped, not the one percent.  You can define middle and upper middle however you wish.

Folks who rely on earned income get clipped in income taxes.  Those who don't, don't care.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 30, 2023, 10:50:53 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on September 30, 2023, 10:32:46 AM

Being poor is very expensive.

And this is my biggest problem with our financial system.  

A poor person pays more for the same thing as a rich person.
I'm not going to try to convince anyone that should be reversed (it should), but if anyone has a reasonable argument why it shouldn't be equal, I'm all ears.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 30, 2023, 10:51:32 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 30, 2023, 10:49:54 AM

I mentioned they had more wealth than the top one percent.  I stated that the middle and upper middle get clipped, on the one percent.

Gonna need to see that data, then.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2023, 11:04:36 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 30, 2023, 10:45:29 AM

Never thought you a puppet until now.
Where do you live again?

I don't live between Virginia and Boston, and I don't live on the Pacific Coast.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2023, 11:06:11 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 30, 2023, 10:50:53 AM

And this is my biggest problem with our financial system. 

A poor person pays more for the same thing as a rich person.
I'm not going to try to convince anyone that should be reversed (it should), but if anyone has a reasonable argument why it shouldn't be equal, I'm all ears.

It starts with education, and I will die on that hill.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 30, 2023, 11:12:48 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2023, 11:06:11 AM

It starts with education, and I will die on that hill.

Our education system's finances put poor people in a hole from day one. 
Tax $$$ from wealthy areas > tax $$$ from poor areas

No one has to die on any hill, you could just stop pretending that there's anything equal about anything when it comes to our country and finances.
Hard work doesn't equal success.  It's required for it, but by and large, if you're starting out from a certain point, your hard work yields nothing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 30, 2023, 11:15:29 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2023, 11:04:36 AM

I don't live between Virginia and Boston, and I don't live on the Pacific Coast.

So your coast is okay and those coasts are elite and hate America and are the villains, right?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2023, 11:16:06 AM

Policy puts people in holes. 

Then the people in the holes look to the clowns who make policy to help them.

Vicious cycle.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2023, 11:18:18 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 30, 2023, 11:15:29 AM

So your coast is okay and those coasts are elite and hate America and are the villains, right?

In my view, yes.

The "elite" do everything they can to control and consolidate power.

Just look around.


In other news, we have football today. Go Gators!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on September 30, 2023, 11:20:19 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2023, 11:18:18 AM

In my view, yes.

The "elite" do everything they can to control and consolidate power.

Just look around.


In other news, we have football today. Go Gators!!

Kentucky and Middle America fighting back against the coastal elite Gators

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 30, 2023, 11:22:42 AM

I agree that school funding is "unfair", to use the term.  The US still spends more overall on K-12 than any larger western country.  And we get poorer results.  (Norway, Luxembourg, Austria, and South Korea spend more per capita.)

COE - Education Expenditures by Country (https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cmd/education-expenditures-by-country)

Maybe we should have a Federal Department of Education to fix all this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2023, 11:55:25 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 30, 2023, 11:22:42 AM

I agree that school funding is "unfair", to use the term.  The US still spends more overall on K-12 than any larger western country.  And we get poorer results.  (Norway, Luxembourg, Austria, and South Korea spend more per capita.)

COE - Education Expenditures by Country (https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cmd/education-expenditures-by-country)

Maybe we should have a Federal Department of Education to fix all this.

They're the ones who F'd it all up in the first place.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2023, 11:56:19 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on September 30, 2023, 11:20:19 AM

Kentucky and Middle America fighting back against the coastal elite Gators

Someone hasn't been to Gainesburgh...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on September 30, 2023, 12:01:59 PM

Shirely if you create some Cabinet level department it solves the problem, no?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2023, 12:03:54 PM

No.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 30, 2023, 12:31:24 PM

Let's leave education to the local level, so that the rural kids in Mississippi and Alabama can help the south rise again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 30, 2023, 12:57:46 PM

the loss of family structure

no leadership at home

thats your problem and no amount of money will overcome that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 30, 2023, 03:04:27 PM

Poor people have more single mothers AND more kids.  

It's brilliant.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 30, 2023, 03:22:53 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2023, 11:06:11 AM

It starts with education, and I will die on that hill.

I'm actually not sure that's true. For education to have an effect, you have to have students who want to be there and apply themselves. Students who have positive role models around them to show them what having an education is worth. It's usually good if the entire community around a student is the same, such that they have those same values of education, and not living up to that ideal is looked down upon. 

Consider a community where effectively no parents have gone to college. Where most kids are raised by single moms, and unwed teen motherhood is effectively normalized. Where a large portion of the populace is on public assistance so "having a job" is seen as optional. Where very few students even think of going to college. Where so many students are disaffected by education that it's effectively impossible for a teacher to control a classroom, making it harder for the few students who want to apply themselves to succeed. For those kids whose parents actually do work, they're latch-key kids who can't come home at the end of the day and ask a parent for help with homework because the hours the parent works to survive make them largely absentee parents. 

Edward James Olmos or Michelle Pfeiffer aren't going to turn that around. Their life is not a movie. 

Education is a tool. If the local culture doesn't value the tool, nobody is going to use it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on September 30, 2023, 03:57:20 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 30, 2023, 03:04:27 PM

Poor people have more single mothers AND more kids. 

It's brilliant.

choices

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 30, 2023, 07:31:21 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on September 30, 2023, 03:57:20 PM

choices

environment, familiarity, observation


No one learns a language in silence.  
If everyone around you makes bad choices, so will you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on September 30, 2023, 07:48:19 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 30, 2023, 07:31:21 PM

environment, familiarity, observation


No one learns a language in silence. 
If everyone around you makes bad choices, so will you.

especially when theres no one there to show you the right way

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on September 30, 2023, 07:53:15 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 30, 2023, 03:22:53 PM

Consider a community where effectively no parents have gone to college. Where most kids are raised by single moms, and unwed teen motherhood is effectively normalized. Where a large portion of the populace is on public assistance so "having a job" is seen as optional. Where very few students even think of going to college. Where so many students are disaffected by education that it's effectively impossible for a teacher to control a classroom, making it harder for the few students who want to apply themselves to succeed. For those kids whose parents actually do work, they're latch-key kids who can't come home at the end of the day and ask a parent for help with homework because the hours the parent works to survive make them largely absentee parents.

You just described most of rural America. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 30, 2023, 08:21:41 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on September 30, 2023, 07:53:15 PM

You just described most of rural America.

Indeed.  Country kids aren't exactly doing well, either. 

One thing I hate about those "ask a random person some easy trivia questions" acts are that they're always in a big city.
Go do that in a small town and get just as comedic/embarrassing content. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 30, 2023, 09:12:47 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on September 30, 2023, 07:53:15 PM

You just described most of rural America.

They don't call it "public assistance."

They call it "farm subsidies."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 01, 2023, 06:42:40 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 30, 2023, 11:22:42 AM

I agree that school funding is "unfair", to use the term.  The US still spends more overall on K-12 than any larger western country.  And we get poorer results.  (Norway, Luxembourg, Austria, and South Korea spend more per capita.)

COE - Education Expenditures by Country (https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cmd/education-expenditures-by-country)

Maybe we should have a Federal Department of Education to fix all this.

I assume the $$$ to run the Federal Department of Education is calculated in the expenditure?
it shouldn't. it's not getting close to a classroom

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 01, 2023, 06:47:07 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 30, 2023, 09:12:47 PM

They don't call it "public assistance."

They call it "farm subsidies."

someone has to grow cotton outside of Phoenix 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2023, 07:31:16 AM

Ethonal sucks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 01, 2023, 07:34:43 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 01, 2023, 06:42:40 AM

I assume the $$$ to run the Federal Department of Education is calculated in the expenditure?
it shouldn't. it's not getting close to a classroom

Well, I'd guess a lot of "other" doesn't  get near a classroom either.  It's spending on "education", or intended to be, and it's a small percentage anyway.


(https://i.imgur.com/uqSvnUR.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2023, 07:38:57 AM

Look at all the DO_ in this country, and the number of agencies under them. It's astonishing.

A-Z index of U.S. government departments and agencies | USAGov (https://www.usa.gov/agency-index)

What I then like to do is go back and see when they were created, and by whom.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 01, 2023, 07:43:17 AM

I'd just like to cut the fat and spending

placing blame isn't real important

all politicians are guilty of reckless spending

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2023, 07:45:42 AM

I'll pick one. 

Why was HUD created?

Do we need HUD?

And if we do, why do we?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 01, 2023, 07:50:15 AM

I can't see any politician of whatever stripe really cutting the scope of Federal government, so whether it's needed or not is basically irrelevant.

It's a bit amusing to note how many were created under Nixon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2023, 08:05:39 AM

So, the House passed a bill to avoid a shutdown. Oh well.

They've shut down before (4 years ago??) and I never noticed.

Now all of those lemmings get to go suck the clock on Monday. 

Not that I'd notice.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 01, 2023, 08:16:39 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on September 29, 2023, 08:29:14 PM

Oh stop and frisk. What a profoundly unAmerican thing.

It worked. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 01, 2023, 08:21:49 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 30, 2023, 10:45:29 AM

Never thought you a puppet until now.
Where do you live again?

His point was that higher taxes hit the say 30-99% MUCH harder than the 1%. This is unavoidable for at least two reasons:

• Taxable income is a MUCH larger fraction of wealth for them than the 1%. 
• The higher you are the more flexibility you have to avoid taxes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 01, 2023, 08:25:18 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 30, 2023, 03:04:27 PM

Poor people have more single mothers AND more kids. 

It's brilliant.

We are evolving backwards

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 01, 2023, 09:22:26 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on October 01, 2023, 08:21:49 AM

His point was that higher taxes hit the say 30-99% MUCH harder than the 1%. This is unavoidable for at least two reasons:

• Taxable income is a MUCH larger fraction of wealth for them than the 1%.
• The higher you are the more flexibility you have to avoid taxes.

this is a problem

but, it's not going away

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2023, 09:30:31 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on October 01, 2023, 08:21:49 AM

His point was that higher taxes hit the say 30-99% MUCH harder than the 1%. This is unavoidable for at least two reasons:

• Taxable income is a MUCH larger fraction of wealth for them than the 1%.
• The higher you are the more flexibility you have to avoid taxes.

Hence my statement on the coastal elites. They hold their money, and they hold their power.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 01, 2023, 09:32:20 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/6TGlCA5.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 01, 2023, 09:43:09 AM

I suspect the wealthy often have many of the same troubles we have, though with money some of that can be bought off of course.  If somehow I won some lotto thing, I'd spend most of my efforts trying to give it away to causes that seem to be doing some good, I do that now but obviously with a relative pittance.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 01, 2023, 09:43:27 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on October 01, 2023, 08:16:39 AM

It worked.

Think anything like that would have existed for 5 seconds if it largely targeted rich white people in a similar way? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2023, 09:43:44 AM

See?

Oprah Winfrey, Meghan Markle reportedly floated as potential replacements for Dianne Feinstein | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/oprah-winfrey-meghan-markle-reportedly-floated-potential-replacements-dianne-feinstein)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 01, 2023, 09:44:32 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on October 01, 2023, 08:21:49 AM

His point was that higher taxes hit the say 30-99% MUCH harder than the 1%. This is unavoidable for at least two reasons:

• Taxable income is a MUCH larger fraction of wealth for them than the 1%.
• The higher you are the more flexibility you have to avoid taxes.

His words were copied  and pasted from FoxNews, too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 01, 2023, 09:45:00 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2023, 09:43:44 AM

See?

Oprah Winfrey, Meghan Markle reportedly floated as potential replacements for Dianne Feinstein | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/oprah-winfrey-meghan-markle-reportedly-floated-potential-replacements-dianne-feinstein)

Yes, celebrity worship is dumb.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 01, 2023, 09:45:51 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2023, 09:30:31 AM

Hence my statement on the coastal elites. They hold their money, and they hold their power.

Regardless of party affiliation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2023, 09:48:03 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 01, 2023, 09:44:32 AM

His words were copied  and pasted from FoxNews, too.

Wrong.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2023, 09:48:49 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 01, 2023, 09:45:51 AM

Regardless of party affiliation.

The uniparty, you mean?

We know who they are.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 01, 2023, 09:54:13 AM

Newsom has said a replacement for Feinstein would be temporary, not one of the current candidates.  I don't think it matters at all, anyone appointed would vote in lock step with their party.  The way I look at all of this is Democrats want to fix the deficit by more spending, Republicans want to fix the deficit by cutting taxes.  They end up doing both over time, except for fixing the deficit of course.

We still have most of the Bush tax cuts in place, and most of the Trump tax cuts in place, etc.  As for spending, well, Republicans like to TALK about cutting it.  Somehow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 01, 2023, 09:55:22 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2023, 09:48:03 AM

Wrong.

Demonizing "coastal elites" suggests middle America is somehow innocent or victimized.  
There's plenty of big corporations in the midwest and Texas.  
Pretending rich people on the coasts are any different than ones inland is bastardizing things and increasing the polarization of the urban and rural divide.  

It doesn't help anything.  It's inaccurate.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2023, 09:56:03 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 01, 2023, 09:54:13 AM

Newsom has said a replacement for Feinstein would be temporary, not one of the current candidates.  I don't think it matters at all, anyone appointed would vote in lock step with their party.  The way I look at all of this is Democrats want to fix the deficit by more spending, Republicans want to fix the deficit by cutting taxes.  They end up doing both over time, except for fixing the deficit of course.

We still have most of the Bush tax cuts in place, and most of the Trump tax cuts in place, etc.  As for spending, well, Republicans like to TALK about cutting it.  Somehow.

They are mostly ALL FoS.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 01, 2023, 09:57:40 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 01, 2023, 09:54:13 AM

Newsom has said a replacement for Feinstein would be temporary, not one of the current candidates.  I don't think it matters at all, anyone appointed would vote in lock step with their party.  The way I look at all of this is Democrats want to fix the deficit by more spending, Republicans want to fix the deficit by cutting taxes.  They end up doing both over time, except for fixing the deficit of course.

We still have most of the Bush tax cuts in place, and most of the Trump tax cuts in place, etc.  As for spending, well, Republicans like to TALK about cutting it.  Somehow.

Agreed.
Both parties' ideas on this are hot garbage.  The republicans go a little further by pretending they'd actually spend less than the Dems, but that's an obvious lie.  It's hard to cut spending when you wage perpetual war.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2023, 09:58:50 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 01, 2023, 09:55:22 AM

Demonizing "coastal elites" suggests middle America is somehow innocent or victimized. 
There's plenty of big corporations in the midwest and Texas. 
Pretending rich people on the coasts are any different than ones inland is bastardizing things and increasing the polarization of the urban and rural divide. 

It doesn't help anything.  It's inaccurate. 

1. Of course there are. And they mostly keep to themselves and don't dive into trying to change this country (save for some plumber butt governor in Illinois).

2. Newsflash!! This has been going on since 1776.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2023, 09:59:59 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 01, 2023, 09:57:40 AM

Agreed.
Both parties' ideas on this are hot garbage.  The republicans go a little further by pretending they'd actually spend less than the Dems, but that's an obvious lie.  It's hard to cut spending when you wage perpetual war. 

Eisenhower warned "us", and "we" didn't listen.

The Military Industrial Complex is evil. Pure evil.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 01, 2023, 10:00:09 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/V5Ch4E4.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 01, 2023, 10:00:39 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2023, 09:58:50 AM

1. Of course there are. And they mostly keep to themselves and don't dive into trying to change this country (save for some plumber butt governor in Illinois).

I respect you enough to not believe you're this naive.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 01, 2023, 10:00:50 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/nLYoD7T.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2023, 10:03:12 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 01, 2023, 10:00:39 AM

I respect you enough to not believe you're this naive. 

Warren Buffet exists. The Ricketts exist.

But you wouldn't really know it. There are plenty more examples.

Musk puts himself out there for sure - mostly as a weirdo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 01, 2023, 10:09:54 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2023, 09:59:59 AM

Eisenhower warned "us", and "we" didn't listen.

The Military Industrial Complex is evil. Pure evil.

It's especially bad now because technological advances should allow us to pare down the bloated walrus of war while maintaining or improving its effectiveness.

Idk if it's because our presidential choices are old as shit, but we don't need any more tanks.  We don't need 750 bases in 80 countries.  We don't need to spend more than the next 10 countries.  It's embarrassing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 01, 2023, 10:11:17 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2023, 10:03:12 AM

Warren Buffet exists. The Ricketts exist.

But you wouldn't really know it. There are plenty more examples.

Musk puts himself out there for sure - mostly as a weirdo.

There are those who want a spotlight and those who do not.  But their actions behind the scenes are the same.  Looking out for their best self-interests, taking measures to get the outcomes they want, and bending the law as much as possible to get it done.
That's how they got in the positions they are in.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2023, 10:12:30 AM

Interesting.

The 11 American States That Never Happened (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-11-american-states-that-never-happened/ss-AA1hv4nv#image=1)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 01, 2023, 10:20:02 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 01, 2023, 10:09:54 AM

Idk if it's because our presidential choices are old as shit, but we don't need any more tanks.  We don't need 750 bases in 80 countries.  We don't need to spend more than the next 10 countries.  It's embarrassing.

The core of the problem, in my view, if the scope of our commitments overseas.  We need a lot of bases in order to project power and provide security for others.  If we reviewed those commitments, critically, and pared them down, we could cut military spending accordingly, but I think the one has to precede the other.  I'm not an advocate of isolationism, or even whatever Trumpism is (it seems to vary).  But I do think we could "pull in our horns" over time and let others do their own defending, maybe with some critical exceptions.  (I'm hesitant to pull out of NATO.)

At the extreme position, we'd pull back and defend just the US and its territories, and could do so a lot more cheaply.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2023, 10:35:30 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 01, 2023, 10:20:02 AM

At the extreme position, we'd pull back and defend just the US and its territories, and could do so a lot more cheaply. 

That doesn't seem extreme at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 01, 2023, 10:39:13 AM

Loss of income => less tax income.

(https://i.imgur.com/F9HGQrK.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 01, 2023, 10:40:14 AM

It's extreme in the sense we couldn't do more.  I think today we're at the other extreme, or nearly so.  Overseas commitments require ability to project power which is VERY expensive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 01, 2023, 11:12:42 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 01, 2023, 09:43:27 AM

Think anything like that would have existed for 5 seconds if it largely targeted rich white people in a similar way?

If rich white people were killing each other at the same rate as the poor in Chicago this would be a relevant discussion but since they aren't, let's stick to reality. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 01, 2023, 11:23:13 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 01, 2023, 10:20:02 AM

At the extreme position, we'd pull back and defend just the US and its territories, and could do so a lot more cheaply.

It would be nice if we would defend our country but we aren't.

At the same time we are willing to defend Ukraine and a few dozen other countries.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 01, 2023, 11:41:53 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on October 01, 2023, 11:12:42 AM

If rich white people were killing each other at the same rate as the poor in Chicago this would be a relevant discussion but since they aren't, let's stick to reality.

It's not hard to relate it to rich white people.  Unannounced police raids of corporate financial books. Whenever they choose to.  Just kick the tires and look behind the curtains.  Make sure everything adds up.  Then they can go on about their way.  

Think they'd stand for that?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 01, 2023, 11:47:11 AM

750 bases in 80 countries.  
I bet there are countries that consider themselves allies or neutral to us that would like to see us pare that down.  If we had something like 10 big bases around the world, it would help us seem like we want to keep the peace as we suggest we do.

750 bases in 80 countries looks more like psychotic overkill and the need to be the world's daddy.  
We don't project power, we project complete dominance.  
Easy to be put off by that, if you're in Italy or India or Bolivia.  Even if you have no other problems with the U.S.

Both parties nitpick about spending, but idk why we all can't agree that the war machine needs downsizing.  I believe it would make everyone in the world happier and just let them breathe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 01, 2023, 01:28:39 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 01, 2023, 11:41:53 AM

It's not hard to relate it to rich white people.  Unannounced police raids of corporate financial books. Whenever they choose to.  Just kick the tires and look behind the curtains.  Make sure everything adds up.  Then they can go on about their way. 

Think they'd stand for that?

The "police" wouldn't have any clue about corporate books, which of course are audited routinely.  Large corporations really have no reason to cheat and the downside for them is draconian, and personal.  The CEO can go to jail.  He's not going to be interested in that risk to make another million or so for himself.  Do they have large internal financial folks looking for every legal option?  Of course.

Small companies?  I'd guess a lot of cooking going on there somewhat because they don't know better or think there is no way they'll get caught.  I'm convinced a couple restaurants near us are laundering money, they almost never have customers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 01, 2023, 02:57:03 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on September 30, 2023, 09:12:47 PM

They don't call it "public assistance."

They call it "farm subsidies."

Welfare by any other name is still welfare.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 01, 2023, 03:44:41 PM

and it's good for Minnesoota and Iowa

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 02, 2023, 12:09:45 PM

My wife came to me last night showing Jupiter on her phone just to the right of the moon.  She wanted me to get my telescope out, something I don't often do, but did.  I don't use it enough to be familiar with it and it took me a while and a few lenses but I finally found the moon, and then Jupiter.  That was pretty cool, we could see the four major moons.  She bought it for me a while back so I was glad to be able to use it, but I need to practice with it more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 02, 2023, 12:22:14 PM

Congress Passes Trillion Dollar Stopgap Bill That Will Fund Government Until About 2 PM Tomorrow | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/congress-passes-trillion-dollar-stopgap-bill-that-will-fund-government-until-about-2-pm-tomorrow?utm_source=The Babylon Bee)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 02, 2023, 12:23:00 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 02, 2023, 12:09:45 PM

My wife came to me last night showing Jupiter on her phone just to the right of the moon.  She wanted me to get my telescope out, something I don't often do, but did.  I don't use it enough to be familiar with it and it took me a while and a few lenses but I finally found the moon, and then Jupiter.  That was pretty cool, we could see the four major moons.  She bought it for me a while back so I was glad to be able to use it, but I need to practice with it more.

How bad is the light pollution living in the middle of ATL? I would think that would make viewing nearly anything pretty difficult. 

BTW here's a pretty cool site showing some stuff one of my coworkers from NH does:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/192507025@N03/

He's got a photo put together of the ISS transitiing across the sun, as well as across the moon. 

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51043700488_fab5c36ae1_k.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 02, 2023, 01:48:33 PM

Light pollution is bad of course, but the telescope punches through it.  What makes it hard is trying to view an object that isn't readily visible to the naked eye, which is nearly everything.  We can see Venus and Mars and Jupiter unaided, often as not.  Saturn is tough to see generally.  Any other star is just a point of light anyway.  The tripod on this scopre is not quite stable enough in the mounting, to there is a lot of jitter at higher mags.  I don't know a way to fix that in order to do any astrophotography.  My wife snaps photos with her phone.  THey arne't very good.  Mine is similar to this one, not the same.

Celestron StarSense Explorer DX 130AZ Reflector Telescope | High Point Scientific (https://www.highpointscientific.com/celestron-starsense-explorer-dx-130az-newtonian-reflector-telescope-22461?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=CEL-22461&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=18147526044&utm_content=142198545324&utm_term=&gclid=Cj0KCQjw1OmoBhDXARIsAAAYGSFmiQVZMwFftSDGbdOQnfTeeqCdiGjG-i-ZmbYzDDDI8EaWxUeJwc4aAno1EALw_wcB)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 02, 2023, 03:56:06 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 30, 2023, 11:18:18 AM

In my view, yes.

The "elite" do everything they can to control and consolidate power.

Just look around.


In other news, we have football today. Go Gators!!

The "elite" are a made up bogie man that changes depending on who one wants to be mad at. They are, on balanced, illusory.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 02, 2023, 03:57:14 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on October 01, 2023, 08:16:39 AM

It worked.

Was there much evidence it did? Or a lot of feelings?

And if pissing all over basic constitutional rights works, I suppose I can't agree those ends justify those means. But it is what it is. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 02, 2023, 04:16:29 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 02, 2023, 03:57:14 PM

Was there much evidence it did? Or a lot of feelings?

And if pissing all over basic constitutional rights works, I suppose I can't agree those ends justify those means. But it is what it is.

There is a lot of evidence. Look at homicide rates before, during, and after.

I visited NYC in 1994. It was a crime-infested shithole.

Gulliani and then Bloomberg made it livable. I visited a few years ago.

Now it is heading back.

As far as basic Constitutional rights, the Constitution states:
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated"

That doesn't say "No stop and frisk" and I wouldn't interpret it to say that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 02, 2023, 04:41:12 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on October 02, 2023, 04:16:29 PM

There is a lot of evidence. Look at homicide rates before, during, and after.

I visited NYC in 1994. It was a crime-infested shithole.

Gulliani and then Bloomberg made it livable. I visited a few years ago.

Now it is heading back.

As far as basic Constitutional rights, the Constitution states:
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated"

That doesn't say "No stop and frisk" and I wouldn't interpret it to say that.

From what I'm seeing, the massive improvement in homicide rate proceeded stop and frisk?

And if that's the standard for rights, it would argue we have functionally none at all. If I have a right that my person can't be searched unreasonably, and the reason can be as vague as "the government wants to" then it's no protection at all. 

I mean, if you're fine and dandy with getting felt up and having your pockets gone through for the greater good, God bless you. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 02, 2023, 05:04:13 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on October 02, 2023, 04:16:29 PM

As far as basic Constitutional rights, the Constitution states:
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated"

That doesn't say "No stop and frisk" and I wouldn't interpret it to say that.

I think the part I emphasized actually says that. Wouldn't you agree that the government having the right to search you, without probable cause, just because you're in public, is unreasonable?

And as BAB says, we saw a marked decrease in all violent crime starting about that same time, nationwide. There are multiple possible explanations for that, but stop & frisk in NYC obviously didn't have a nationwide effect. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 02, 2023, 05:12:00 PM

1994 Crime Bill, as promised during the 1992 Clinton Campaign. Joe Biden wrote most of it.

Of course, things change we are where we are now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 02, 2023, 05:19:03 PM

I disagree with both of you because it IS interconnected.  

Starting as far back as the 1950's left wing crime policies started to take over.  There were a lot of aspects to this but generally lenient sentencing was one along with SCOTUS interpretations changing in a direction allowing a lot more to criminals and a lot less to government.  Miranda rights appeared out of nowhere.  The police were prohibited from using lethal force against fleeing felons.  At one point the death penalty was almost deemed unconstitutional and there were four votes on the SCOTUS for exactly that despite the death penalty being explicitly authorized by the constitution.  

Left wing crime policies made nearly every large city in America effectively unlivable.  

We had to spend literally trillions of dollars to build suburbs because the policies of our elites FORCED working people out of the cities.  

That started to turn around in the 1970's and by the 1990's it had reversed.  People saw the results of left wing policies and said "no thanks, I'd like to live."  NYC elected tough on crime republican and republican-turned-independent mayors in five consecutive elections.  Three strikes laws were passed in most states.  Criminal penalties were toughened up.  

Crime dropped and cities became livable again.  

Then people forgot why they started voting for tough-on-crime politicians and went back to the left wing policies and guess what?  

Chicago is a war zone.  Crime is skyrocketing.  Shocking, isn't it?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 02, 2023, 05:20:05 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 02, 2023, 05:04:13 PM

I think the part I emphasized actually says that. Wouldn't you agree that the government having the right to search you, without probable cause, just because you're in public, is unreasonable?

If you are in a high crime area, not unreasonable at all.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 02, 2023, 05:39:03 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on October 02, 2023, 05:20:05 PM

If you are in a high crime area, not unreasonable at all. 

Well we might have to agree to disagree on that one. 

Now, that doesn't mean that I'm advocating "soft on crime". It seems the pendulum has now swung to the point where the cops won't even attempt to stop crime, and the prosecutors can't be bothered to prosecute it. That's ridiculous, and it leads to what we see. 

However, I think "stop & frisk" is a bridge too far. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 02, 2023, 05:40:44 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on October 02, 2023, 05:19:03 PM

Despite the death penalty being explicitly authorized by the constitution. 

Is that a reading of the life, liberty, or property bit in the due process parts?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 02, 2023, 06:49:31 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 02, 2023, 05:39:03 PM

However, I think "stop & frisk" is a bridge too far.

And just to clarify on this... "Stop & frisk" not being synonymous with "tough on crime"... It's just a really visible tactic for the voters to see from a PR perspective. 

But did it work? Some say no (https://crim.sas.upenn.edu/fact-check/does-stop-and-frisk-reduce-crime)... 

Quote

NYPD’s deployment of extra police to high crime neighborhoods contributed far more to the crime reduction than the use of stop, question, and frisk. Research on the NYPD’s program of Operation Impact found that extra police deployed to high crime areas in New York was a major factor in the crime decline: a 12% to 15% reduction. The additional use of stop, question, and frisk made almost no difference. The stops only had a detectable impact on crime when the stops were based on probable cause, and these kinds of stops were very rare. Other research by Weisburd and colleagues also showed that stop, question, and frisk practices had only small associations with crime reduction (on the order 2%). And this study did not measure the effects of stops over and above increased officer deployment.

Emphasis added. 

You can be tough on crime without violating your citizens' constitutional rights against unreasonable search & seizure. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 02, 2023, 11:58:26 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on October 02, 2023, 04:16:29 PM

As far as basic Constitutional rights, the Constitution states:
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated"

That doesn't say "No stop and frisk" and I wouldn't interpret it to say that.

Thank god you're not a judge.  Holy shit, man.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 03, 2023, 03:50:52 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 02, 2023, 11:58:26 PM

Thank god you're not a judge.  Holy shit, man.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_stop

Earl Warren
HUgo Black
John Harlan
William Brennan
Potter Stewart
Byron White (played football at Colorado)
Abe Fortas
Thurgood Marshall

Judges

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 03, 2023, 10:57:05 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on October 03, 2023, 03:50:52 AM

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_stop

Well, that's not just "you're in a crime-ridden neighborhood so you surrender all rights"...

Quote

The United States Supreme Court held that where: (1) a police officer observes unusual conduct by a subject; (2) the subject's conduct leads the Officer reasonably to conclude that criminal activity may be afoot, and that the subject may be armed and presently dangerous; (3) the officer identifies himself as a policeman; (4) the officer makes reasonable inquiries; and (5) nothing in the initial stages of the encounter serves to dispel the officer's reasonable fear for safety, the officer may conduct a carefully limited search of the outer clothing of the subject in an attempt to discover weapons, and that such a search is a reasonable search under the Fourteenth Amendment, so that any weapons seized may properly be introduced in evidence.

I have a personal example I've talked about here before. Back in ~2003-04 when I rode a motorcycle, I had left work and was headed home, including a stop at the bank. In my haste, I parked the bike and was halfway into the door of the bank before I took my helmet off. I conducted my business, and as I was leaving the bank, already had my helmet on. So for any reasonable observer outside the bank, they never saw me without my helmet, and there could be reasonable suspicion that I had worn a helmet into a bank for the purposes of non-identification. 

Two officers happened to be there and saw me come out of the bank. My conduct was unusual (1), a reasonable observer could conclude criminal activity may be afoot (2). They were uniformed so didn't need to verbally identify themselves (3), detained me briefly, and made reasonable inquiries as to my behavior (4), and ensured that no, the bank had not in fact been robbed. So based on #5 (the initial stages of the encounter where I explained myself and didn't give them reason to feel threatened), plus the fact that the bank hadn't actually called the police and reported a robbery, they did not attempt to search me. 

This is a lot different then being hassled and searched because you happen to be a young black man in Manhattan wearing something other than a suit, which is my understanding of what most of stop & frisk was. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 03, 2023, 11:43:33 AM

Whatever they did in NYC worked.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 03, 2023, 11:46:08 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 02, 2023, 05:40:44 PM

Is that a reading of the life, liberty, or property bit in the due process parts?

There are others, but yes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 03, 2023, 11:48:00 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 02, 2023, 06:49:31 PM

And just to clarify on this... "Stop & frisk" not being synonymous with "tough on crime"... It's just a really visible tactic for the voters to see from a PR perspective.

But did it work? Some say no (https://crim.sas.upenn.edu/fact-check/does-stop-and-frisk-reduce-crime)...


Emphasis added.

You can be tough on crime without violating your citizens' constitutional rights against unreasonable search & seizure.

A bunch of left-wing academics conducted a study and found what they wanted to find. I'm shocked.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on October 03, 2023, 11:52:23 AM

It's the Buckeye fans turn to pony up for Peacock.


https://ohiostatebuckeyes.com/news/2023/10/2/football-streaming-platform-peacock-to-carry-ohio-state-at-purdue (https://ohiostatebuckeyes.com/news/2023/10/2/football-streaming-platform-peacock-to-carry-ohio-state-at-purdue)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 03, 2023, 11:54:14 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on October 03, 2023, 11:52:23 AM

It's the Buckeye fans turn to pony up for Peacock.


https://ohiostatebuckeyes.com/news/2023/10/2/football-streaming-platform-peacock-to-carry-ohio-state-at-purdue (https://ohiostatebuckeyes.com/news/2023/10/2/football-streaming-platform-peacock-to-carry-ohio-state-at-purdue)

Originally they were going to do that for this weekend's game (Maryland) but with the Terps still undefeated Fox picked that up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 03, 2023, 12:01:13 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 03, 2023, 10:57:05 AM

This is a lot different then being hassled and searched because you happen to be a young black man in Manhattan wearing something other than a suit, which is my understanding of what most of stop & frisk was.

On the rare occasion with a rouge and over-aggressive cop, yes it was. But it was rare.

There are bad cops in amongst the many good ones. Lots of examples of this in Chicago, under Jon Burge.


Jon Burge - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Burge)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 03, 2023, 12:26:38 PM

Canadians...

(https://i.imgur.com/VM6xNKK.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 03, 2023, 12:43:27 PM

I could be wrong, but my understanding of Stop and Frisk was the the officer had to have probable cause to Stop and Frisk someone without their consent. I don't believe that they could simply pick a person at random and search them, they had to have a valid reason for the search. 

If that is NOT the case, then I would agree that it is a violation of a person's rights. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 03, 2023, 12:46:24 PM

A growing school here is "SCAD", Savannah College of Art and Design.  They have built a number of student residence towers near me.  I was amused by this comment by a poster about a recent one just finished:

The average cost of a SCAD degree is $205k. The average starting salary is $33k. Paula Wallace received $9.6 million in compensation in 2014, and 13 members of her family have received $60 million over the past 20 years. At one point, Business Insider described SCAD as the biggest rip off in education. (https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Fworst-value-colleges-2012-4%3Af9J7jZiHYgfOJLE1m3JI4WVJDV0&cuid=6589550) I guess some of the money is going to buildings too.

Photos: SCAD's massive Midtown expansion is officially finished | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/photos-scad-midtown-expansion-finished-savannah-college-art-design)

I don't know if that is the case, it well may be, anyway, word of warning perhaps.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 03, 2023, 03:15:03 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on October 03, 2023, 11:52:23 AM

It's the Buckeye fans turn to pony up for Peacock.
https://ohiostatebuckeyes.com/news/2023/10/2/football-streaming-platform-peacock-to-carry-ohio-state-at-purdue (https://ohiostatebuckeyes.com/news/2023/10/2/football-streaming-platform-peacock-to-carry-ohio-state-at-purdue)

All of us are going to need Peacock if we want to watch our basketball 🏀 teams. According to 11w (https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-basketball/2023/10/141345/ohio-state-mens-basketball-to-play-five-games-on-peacock-this-season), the following five tOSU BB games will be exclusively on Peacock:

• Vs aTm, Friday, November 10 at 7pm
• At Nebraska, Tuesday, January 23 at 7pm
• Vs Illinois, Tuesday, January 30 at 7pm
• Vs Indiana, Tuesday, February 6 at 7pm
• At Wisconsin, Tuesday, February 13 at 9pm

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 03, 2023, 05:09:36 PM

I'm gonna go after that House Speaker gig. 

Of course I will accept input from all of you kind folks here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 03, 2023, 05:19:19 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 03, 2023, 05:09:36 PM

I'm gonna go after that House Speaker gig.

Of course I will accept input from all of you kind folks here.

I don't think I can do politics. I have a nasty habit of telling the truth. 

People REALLY love that level of honesty...

...right up until the truth is something they don't want to hear. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 03, 2023, 05:26:09 PM

McCarthy had a complete crap job.  I don't mean that because of the ideologies, it would be true if you flipped it.  

He was House Speaker with a VERY slim majority and with the Senate and White House controlled by the other party.  

Doesn't matter if that situation is held by a D or an R, it is going to be a mess.  The party in the (slim) majority in the HoR is naturally going to have people from the wing that want to "burn it all down" but the grown ups need to actually get the business of government done and there are naturally going to HAVE to be compromises because the other party controls the Senate and the White House so the Speaker in that situation is going to have a constant mess on their hands.  

Gaetz' criticism is basically that McCarthy passed a budget with more Democrat than Republican votes so his solution was to oust the speaker with more Democrat than Republican votes.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 03, 2023, 05:29:41 PM

Yeah I'd be a terrible politician because I loathe bullshit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 03, 2023, 08:34:05 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 03, 2023, 05:09:36 PM

I'm gonna go after that House Speaker gig.

Of course I will accept input from all of you kind folks here.

My ass would be nodding off at every State of the Union.  Like badly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 03, 2023, 08:55:02 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on October 03, 2023, 03:15:03 PM

All of us are going to need Peacock if we want to watch our basketball 🏀 teams. According to 11w (https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-basketball/2023/10/141345/ohio-state-mens-basketball-to-play-five-games-on-peacock-this-season), the following five tOSU BB games will be exclusively on Peacock:

• Vs aTm, Friday, November 10 at 7pm
• At Nebraska, Tuesday, January 23 at 7pm
• Vs Illinois, Tuesday, January 30 at 7pm
• Vs Indiana, Tuesday, February 6 at 7pm
• At Wisconsin, Tuesday, February 13 at 9pm

Those f$&*%s

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 03, 2023, 08:57:07 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on October 03, 2023, 11:46:08 AM

There are others, but yes.

Could you point them out? Should be an easy copy/paste.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 03, 2023, 09:01:57 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 03, 2023, 12:43:27 PM

I could be wrong, but my understanding of Stop and Frisk was the the officer had to have probable cause to Stop and Frisk someone without their consent. I don't believe that they could simply pick a person at random and search them, they had to have a valid reason for the search.

If that is NOT the case, then I would agree that it is a violation of a person's rights.

This gets to a sort of hazy area. “Probable cause” is an often low standard. But that’s in most cases.

We are a people pretty deferential to certain types of government, at least in a sort of abstract sense. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 03, 2023, 09:45:23 PM

“Probable cause” has always been a stupid low standard.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 03, 2023, 09:47:03 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 03, 2023, 09:45:23 PM

“Probable cause” has always been a stupid low standard.

Yeah, like pass interference, targeting, and “hate” speech. 😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 03, 2023, 09:48:54 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 03, 2023, 12:01:13 PM

On the rare occasion with a rouge and over-aggressive cop, yes it was. But it was rare.

There are bad cops in amongst the many good ones. Lots of examples of this in Chicago, under Jon Burge.

I'm not sure it's nearly as rare as some folks want to think
might be many bad cops in amongst the few good ones

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 03, 2023, 11:09:08 PM

Probable cause just changes "you're wearing a hoodie" to "suspicious activity."

And I don't think it's a simple most cops are good and only a few are bad, either.  A good cop with a good track record of things could be playing the percentages or be confident he's doing the right thing AND still be overreaching and ignoring the rights of citizens - especially if given so much leeway and ambiguity.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 04, 2023, 12:56:10 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 03, 2023, 09:47:03 PM

Yeah, like pass interference, targeting, and “hate” speech. 😂

Don’t get me started on hate speech. A real level of appearance chasing nonsense that is

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 04, 2023, 02:24:03 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 03, 2023, 08:57:07 PM

Could you point them out? Should be an easy copy/paste.

Most obvious is:
"nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law
"

That creates limitations on depriving someone of life which pretty obviously means that someone can be deprived of life with due process.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 04, 2023, 07:01:21 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on October 02, 2023, 05:19:03 PM

I disagree with both of you because it IS interconnected. 

Starting as far back as the 1950's left wing crime policies started to take over.  There were a lot of aspects to this but generally lenient sentencing was one along with SCOTUS interpretations changing in a direction allowing a lot more to criminals and a lot less to government.  Miranda rights appeared out of nowhere.  The police were prohibited from using lethal force against fleeing felons.  At one point the death penalty was almost deemed unconstitutional and there were four votes on the SCOTUS for exactly that despite the death penalty being explicitly authorized by the constitution. 

Left wing crime policies made nearly every large city in America effectively unlivable. 

We had to spend literally trillions of dollars to build suburbs because the policies of our elites FORCED working people out of the cities. 

That started to turn around in the 1970's and by the 1990's it had reversed.  People saw the results of left wing policies and said "no thanks, I'd like to live."  NYC elected tough on crime republican and republican-turned-independent mayors in five consecutive elections.  Three strikes laws were passed in most states.  Criminal penalties were toughened up. 

Crime dropped and cities became livable again. 

Then people forgot why they started voting for tough-on-crime politicians and went back to the left wing policies and guess what? 

Chicago is a war zone.  Crime is skyrocketing.  Shocking, isn't it? 

One easy thing would be to allow immigrants to move to the "unlivable cities" and work. That has always been an easy way to reduce crime and increase economic opportunities in cities, currently on hold due to our insane policies on immigration.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 04, 2023, 09:18:55 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 04, 2023, 07:01:21 AM

One easy thing would be to allow immigrants to move to the "unlivable cities" and work. That has always been an easy way to reduce crime and increase economic opportunities in cities, currently on hold due to our insane policies on immigration.

One of my coworkers immigrated in his late teens from El Salvador... To South Central LA. In I'm guessing the late 80s / early 90s. 

The helicopters didn't bother him. They were news choppers, not military-grade Sikorsky like at home. 

The sound of distant gunfire didn't bother him. It was piddly little handguns, not fully automatic machine gun fire. 

Perspective is everything, no?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 04, 2023, 09:38:59 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 04, 2023, 09:18:55 AM

One of my coworkers immigrated in his late teens from El Salvador... To South Central LA. In I'm guessing the late 80s / early 90s.

The helicopters didn't bother him. They were news choppers, not military-grade Sikorsky like at home.

The sound of distant gunfire didn't bother him. It was piddly little handguns, not fully automatic machine gun fire.

Perspective is everything, no?

My understanding is that immigrants like your coworker have almost completely displaced the previous population of South Central Los Angeles. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 04, 2023, 09:39:16 AM

Construction of Atlanta's first bus-rapid transit line finally starts soon | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/marta-construction-summerhhill-first-bus-rapid-transit-line-finally-starts-soon?fbclid=IwAR3iBqajltwFimO8um0_kI7faYdwjpeH1S14MobJhRdMIhms4c70pIYnpwI)

I lean to thinking bus "rapid" transit is a better option to street cars, which have tracks and can't easily move to another route.

One issue is that I think a lot of folks view buses as somehow beneath them.  These will be new electric buses so maybe that won't play?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 04, 2023, 09:47:43 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on October 04, 2023, 09:38:59 AM

My understanding is that immigrants like your coworker have almost completely displaced the previous population of South Central Los Angeles.

Mostly true.

We are partners in some properties in that area. Those people work, have strong families, and they pay their rent.

Most of our stuff is in Compton or Long Beach. Same ethics.

And no - we are not subsidized.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 04, 2023, 09:51:20 AM

Here in south east Florida. There is a substantial population of both legal and illegal immigrants.

The majority are extremely hard-working people, they contribute substantially to the economy, and are very friendly and approachable.

There is also some percentage that are at the other end of the spectrum. Career, criminals, or gang members who contribute more to crime and other problems.

It’s always been about the vetting. Or lack there of.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 04, 2023, 09:54:16 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 04, 2023, 09:51:20 AM

Here in south east Florida. There is a substantial population of both legal and illegal immigrants.

The majority are extremely hard-working people, they contribute substantially to the economy, and are very friendly and approachable.

There is also some percentage that are at the other end of the spectrum. Career, criminals, or gang members who contribute more to crime and other problems.

It’s always been about the vetting. Or lack there of.

This.

Immigrants around here are mostly Cuban and (some) Venezuelan. Very hard-working people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 04, 2023, 10:37:29 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on October 03, 2023, 05:26:09 PM

Doesn't matter if that situation is held by a D or an R, it is going to be a mess.  The party in the (slim) majority in the HoR is naturally going to have people from the wing that want to "burn it all down" but the grown ups need to actually get the business of government done and there are naturally going to HAVE to be compromises because the other party controls the Senate and the White House so the Speaker in that situation is going to have a constant mess on their hands. 

Gaetz' criticism is basically that McCarthy passed a budget with more Democrat than Republican votes so his solution was to oust the speaker with more Democrat than Republican votes. 

You may dispose of the both-sides-ism at this time. This mess is all Republican and nothing but Republican.

Nancy Pelosi has had multiple razor-thin majorities featuring a much larger left flank than the Freedom Caucus is to the current GOP. While there are certainly differences in stances, even substantial and loud ones, there's a big gap between large differences of opinion and shutting down the government or deposing the Speaker.

The GOP's conduct since throwing McCarthy out isn't helping their case to why the Democrats should bail them out. 

Speaking of Matt Gaetz, he's your next governor of Florida.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on October 04, 2023, 10:41:14 AM

A lot of Republican voters liked what Rep. Gaetz was saying:  return to the regular order budgeting process and no more giant pork saturated Omnibus bills just before Christmas.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 04, 2023, 10:44:57 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on October 04, 2023, 10:37:29 AM

You may dispose of the both-sides-ism at this time. This mess is all Republican and nothing but Republican.

Nancy Pelosi has had multiple razor-thin majorities featuring a much larger left flank than the Freedom Caucus is to the current GOP. While there are certainly differences in stances, even substantial and loud ones, there's a big gap between large differences of opinion and shutting down the government or deposing the Speaker.

The GOP's conduct since throwing McCarthy out isn't helping their case to why the Democrats should bail them out.

Speaking of Matt Gaetz, he's your next governor of Florida.

The difference is the D's are mostly in lockstep with their leaders.

Nope. Too polarizing. My way-too-early prediction is Byron Donalds.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 04, 2023, 10:47:35 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on October 04, 2023, 10:41:14 AM

A lot of Republican voters liked what Rep. Gaetz was saying:  return to the regular order budgeting process and no more giant pork saturated Omnibus bills just before Christmas.

McC removed the omnibus stuff and went to individual spending.

I can't remember the last time there was a real budget. Late '90's maybe?

Gaetz screwed the pooch here, in my opinion. R's had enough chaos in their party. And now this happens.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 04, 2023, 11:06:09 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 04, 2023, 10:44:57 AM

Nope. Too polarizing. My way-too-early prediction is Byron Donalds.

Have you seen the Republican primary electorate in Florida? Gaetz checks all of their boxes. At minimum he's the Republican nominee in '28.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 04, 2023, 11:10:42 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on October 04, 2023, 11:06:09 AM

Have you seen the Republican primary electorate in Florida? Gaetz checks all of their boxes. At minimum he's the Republican nominee in '28.

Is that really a question? I mean, I looked in the mirror this morning. ;)

Anyway, he unchecks more boxes than he checks.

2028? No chance. Unelectable. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 04, 2023, 01:25:01 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 04, 2023, 10:44:57 AM

The difference is the D's are mostly in lockstep with their leaders.

Nope. Too polarizing. My way-too-early prediction is Byron Donalds.

It’s interesting how that changes. Rs used to be great at keeping the group together, while ads bickered.

It seems like some of the new blood is a little immature and attracted to chaos.

I don’t know about Donalds, but I agree Matt would be a tough sell. Maybe senate.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 04, 2023, 01:42:42 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 04, 2023, 01:25:01 PM

I don’t know about Donalds, but I agree Matt would be a tough sell. Maybe senate.

Scott is running again this year (he's 70 and needs to sit down). Rubio just got re-elected last cycle.

That and I don't think Gaetz is Senate-worthy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 04, 2023, 01:44:49 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 04, 2023, 01:42:42 PM

Scott is running again this year (he's 70 and needs to sit down). Rubio just got re-elected last cycle.

That and I don't think Gaetz is Senate-worthy.

Didn’t realize no opening was coming. Interesting. I was thinking he’d be a winnable candidate more than worthy. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 04, 2023, 01:56:03 PM

I don't think he could win here. I'll actually state that he just can't.

Florida is a conservative red state but it's not ultra-right like some (many??) think. Thus, I don't think there is appetite for a far-right guy in high office - albeit Senate or Governor.

Consider me your boots on the ground Gulf Coast eyeballs and ears. @Honestbuckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=37) on the Atlantic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 04, 2023, 02:41:28 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 04, 2023, 01:56:03 PM

I don't think he could win here. I'll actually state that he just can't.

Florida is a conservative red state but it's not ultra-right like some (many??) think. Thus, I don't think there is appetite for a far-right guy in high office - albeit Senate or Governor.

Consider me your boots on the ground Gulf Coast eyeballs and ears. @Honestbuckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=37) on the Atlantic.

Ending up with hard right burn-it-all-down MAGAs as the Republican candidate in a general election is a big reason why the House is in the state it's in.

https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1709216698186744171?s=20

You can also credit the Supreme Court with an assist too. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 04, 2023, 02:50:25 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on October 04, 2023, 02:41:28 PM

Ending up with hard right burn-it-all-down MAGAs as the Republican candidate in a general election is a big reason why the House is in the state it's in.

https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1709216698186744171?s=20

You can also credit the Supreme Court with an assist too.

That’s funny.  The only “ burn it all down” people ( the ones who not only think it- they do it) are not Rs.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 04, 2023, 02:51:13 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 04, 2023, 01:56:03 PM

I don't think he could win here. I'll actually state that he just can't.

Florida is a conservative red state but it's not ultra-right like some (many??) think. Thus, I don't think there is appetite for a far-right guy in high office - albeit Senate or Governor.

Consider me your boots on the ground Gulf Coast eyeballs and ears. @Honestbuckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=37) on the Atlantic.

Agreed.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on October 04, 2023, 03:01:45 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 04, 2023, 01:56:03 PM

Florida is a conservative red state but it's not ultra-right like some (many??) think. Thus, I don't think there is appetite for a far-right guy in high office - albeit Senate or Governor.

Someone better let DeSantis know this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 04, 2023, 03:17:48 PM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on October 04, 2023, 03:01:45 PM

Someone better let DeSantis know this.

?

He's definitely not moderate but he's also not ultra-right.

And he has lost some support here, including some of mine, since the landslide win.

I'm sure you've noticed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 04, 2023, 03:20:38 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 04, 2023, 03:17:48 PM

?

He's definitely not moderate but he's also not ultra-right.

And he has lost some support here, including some of mine, since the landslide win.

I'm sure you've noticed.

You know how it is 847.  If you think weird things like crime should be illegal, and parents should have a voice in the materials that are being taught to their child- you’re a bogeyman right winger. Lol

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 04, 2023, 03:21:01 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on October 04, 2023, 02:41:28 PM

Ending up with hard right burn-it-all-down MAGAs as the Republican candidate in a general election is a big reason why the House is in the state it's in.

So long as it's mostly peaceful.


(https://i.imgur.com/XSJretI.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 04, 2023, 03:24:46 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 04, 2023, 03:20:38 PM

You know how it is 847.  If you think weird things like crime should be illegal, and parents should have a voice in the materials that are being taught to their child- you’re a bogeyman right winger. Lol

This is what bothers me most.

I've been reading a lot about Ronald Reagan lately. Was he a right-winger? Some today would say yes.

He predicted most of this shit that's going on today (A slow move toward socialism with medicine, education, energy, etc.).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 04, 2023, 04:50:16 PM

The US has been moving towards a larger more powerful central government for most of our history, much faster during some periods of course.  About half of all health care spending in the US is paid for by government.  And the projected spending for 2023 is 24.2% of GDP, some $6,3 trillion, of which only 4.2 is covered by receipts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 04, 2023, 05:17:01 PM

Doomed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 04, 2023, 05:46:45 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on October 04, 2023, 10:41:14 AM

A lot of Republican voters liked what Rep. Gaetz was saying:  return to the regular order budgeting process and no more giant pork saturated Omnibus bills just before Christmas.

I would say voters aren't really sending coherent messages. Most people would like regular work by Congress to resume, but also they tend to want Republicans/Democrats to never win. Compromise and legislate and also kill the other party.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on October 04, 2023, 09:10:41 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 04, 2023, 03:17:48 PM

?

He's definitely not moderate but he's also not ultra-right.

And he has lost some support here, including some of mine, since the landslide win.

I'm sure you've noticed.

I haven't been following the politics on this board to be honest.

He certainly tries to pander to far right conservative voters.  It's a tactic he stole from Trump, and he has done a poor job of recreating the strategy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on October 04, 2023, 09:18:18 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 04, 2023, 03:20:38 PM

You know how it is 847.  If you think weird things like crime should be illegal, and parents should have a voice in the materials that are being taught to their child- you’re a bogeyman right winger. Lol

I have 2 kids in elementary school.  My daughter has 2 friends whose parents both teach.  We hang out with those teachers and their teacher friends.

All the nonsense about what conservatives say is trying to be taught in school is pure bs.  It simply is not happening.

It's a scare tactic to get you to go out and vote for Republicans.  Conservative leaders in our state have manufactured it, and the media has blown it out of proportion.

I've lived in Florida for 22 years now and this is the absolute worst condition this state has ever been in politically.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 04, 2023, 09:43:16 PM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on October 04, 2023, 09:10:41 PM

I haven't been following the politics on this board to be honest.

He certainly tries to pander to far right conservative voters.  It's a tactic he stole from Trump, and he has done a poor job of recreating the strategy.

Does he, though?  Or is he just a conservative politician?

If he's done a "poor job of recreating that strategy" could it be because he's not actually trying to do so? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 04, 2023, 09:43:51 PM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on October 04, 2023, 09:18:18 PM

I have 2 kids in elementary school.  My daughter has 2 friends whose parents both teach.  We hang out with those teachers and their teacher friends.

All the nonsense about what conservatives say is trying to be taught in school is pure bs.  It simply is not happening.

It's a scare tactic to get you to go out and vote for Republicans.  Conservative leaders in our state have manufactured it, and the media has blown it out of proportion.

I've lived in Florida for 22 years now and this is the absolute worst condition this state has ever been in politically.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion

I just need to ignore the factual evidence I see every single day, showing things in different school districts that parents do not agree with and the fights that go on between the school boards and the parents.  I don’t care what any politician says, but I see what I see.  And for the record, I don’t blame the teachers.

of course, people vote with their feet in their wallets, and if they’re voting on the state of Florida, you’re definitely in the substantial minority on your opinion. 

I would also add your about phase 2 or three behind.  The “ oh- the bogeyman is just making it up to scare you” memo and narrative has passed.

They are now in the “ parents who disagreed are domestic terrorists, and we don’t care what you think because the school board knows better than parents do” phase- openly and proudly. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on October 04, 2023, 11:08:14 PM

Quote from: utee94 on October 04, 2023, 09:43:16 PM

Does he, though?  Or is he just a conservative politician?

If he's done a "poor job of recreating that strategy" could it be because he's not actually trying to do so?

He was certainly trying to do so, and it backfired.  Let me preface this by saying that I'm definitely not a Trump supporter.

Trump at least has some personality.  DeSantis has the personality of a warm corpse.  He can't sell anything.

He was late to announce his run for President.  Trump was already out there verbally abusing him, and DeSantis had to play catch up.

A few things he did to pander to the far right (or at least the right wingers that are beyond moderate)...

He passed a very restrictive abortion ban in Florida.  He didn't realize it alienated a lot of conservative women voters.  He lost some major donors over this as well.  He publicly endorsed it to try to secure religious voters in Iowa.

He spoke in favor of cutting Medicare, Social Security, and raising the retirement age.  Which, of course, pissed off senior conservative voters.  Trump took advantage and bashed him for it.

He declared a "War on Woke".  Whatever that means.  Which is funny, because the woke culture is born out of black culture and the black experience in America.  So essentially DeSantis declared war on black culture.  He doesn't know any better, of course, because he's pandering to a certain crowd.

He declared war on Disney over their rights to free speech.  He then used his power as governor to punish them over it.  He accused them of the typical far right allegations of child grooming, etc.

Speaking of using government power...DeSantis has also taken control of the state’s environmental protection agency.  He's deployed our state’s police force out of state.  He's bussed and flown immigrants to other states. He created a law enforcement team to monitor voting.  He removed democratically elected local prosecutors.  He staged the takeover of a liberal arts college.

All of those actions just seem to scream for attention from the far right, or right of center, conservatives

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 05, 2023, 12:44:51 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 04, 2023, 09:43:51 PM

You are certainly entitled to your opinion

I just need to ignore the factual evidence I see every single day, showing things in different school districts that parents do not agree with and the fights that go on between the school boards and the parents.  I don’t care what any politician says, but I see what I see.  And for the record, I don’t blame the teachers.

Every 6-8 years, school districts tend to buy a new reading or math curriculum.  They get a few different companies to send preview packs of their materials.  Admin and teachers review them and pick the one that makes sense.

Those chosen materials are then REQUIRED to be on display for ANYONE to check out/review for at least 2 weeks before being approved by the school board.

No one ever checks them out.  No one ever reviews them.  Yet there they sit, for 2 weeks, alone and isolated.  Because it's required.
The scare tactic bullshit you hear about are individual cases of individual teachers or schools breaking the rules.  These individuals are a handful out of MILLIONS of teachers, staff, admin across the country.

Yes, vending machines kill 2-3 people every year.  No, you should not live in fear of them.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2023, 07:45:15 AM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on October 04, 2023, 11:08:14 PM

A few things he did to pander to the far right (or at least the right wingers that are beyond moderate)...

He passed a very restrictive abortion ban in Florida.  He didn't realize it alienated a lot of conservative women voters.  He lost some major donors over this as well.  He publicly endorsed it to try to secure religious voters in Iowa.

He spoke in favor of cutting Medicare, Social Security, and raising the retirement age.  Which, of course, pissed off senior conservative voters.  Trump took advantage and bashed him for it.

He declared a "War on Woke".  Whatever that means.  Which is funny, because the woke culture is born out of black culture and the black experience in America.  So essentially DeSantis declared war on black culture.  He doesn't know any better, of course, because he's pandering to a certain crowd.

He declared war on Disney over their rights to free speech.  He then used his power as governor to punish them over it.  He accused them of the typical far right allegations of child grooming, etc.

Speaking of using government power...DeSantis has also taken control of the state’s environmental protection agency.  He's deployed our state’s police force out of state.  He's bussed and flown immigrants to other states. He created a law enforcement team to monitor voting.  He removed democratically elected local prosecutors.  He staged the takeover of a liberal arts college.

All of those actions just seem to scream for attention from the far right, or right of center, conservatives

1. 6-week (heartbeat) ban. It was at 15 weeks. My wife says 6. She's given birth. Lots of states have a complete ban, and lots of states have a full-term, for comparison.

As an adopted kid, I'd prefer that women do not abort and then later give their child up for adoption. People are lined up to adopt kids. But who am I to tell someone what to do with their body? I wish this was not a political topic.

2. Those things need to be fixed, right? So, what do you do?

As far as raising the retirement age, that would not piss off seniors because he said he would raise the age for people under 40. Seniors are older than 40.

3. All governors have control over the state EPA - and all state agencies/departments. He didn't take control. He already had it.

I'm not going to speak to the rest of your post, but I will generally say that curriculums for K-5 should be reading, writing, math and science. Nothing more.

Disney spoke out against that idea. Why?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2023, 07:56:57 AM

Not to change the subject, but I am surprised that the US will now continue to rightly build a border wall. 

What changed?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2023, 08:11:59 AM

This is BIG news!!

Taylor Swift Traded To The Jets | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/taylor-swift-traded-to-the-jets?utm_source=The Babylon Bee)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 05, 2023, 08:13:18 AM

The good news is, it's pouring rain at my house for the first time since June 21st.  We've already had 1.5" since 2 AM. 

The bad news, my 16yo daughter is driving to school alone for the first time ever today.  And because it never rains here, she has almost no experience driving in the rain. BUT, she did okay and got to school fine.  Good thing it's only like 0.4 miles away.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2023, 08:17:01 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 05, 2023, 08:13:18 AM

The good news is, it's pouring rain at my house for the first time since June 21st.  We've already had 1.5" since 2 AM.

The bad news, my 16yo daughter is driving to school alone for the first time ever today.  And because it never rains here, she has almost no experience driving in the rain. BUT, she did okay and got to school fine.  Good thing it's only like 0.4 miles away.

Lots of those roads will be very slippery. Glad she's close to home.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2023, 08:18:30 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2023, 07:56:57 AM

Not to change the subject, but I am surprised that the US will now continue to rightly build a border wall.

What changed?

This made some news for obvious reasons, but of course it's a small section of "barrier", note they don't want to refer to it as a wall.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2023, 08:21:20 AM

Trump gives the game away about his U.S.-Mexico ‘border wall’ (msnbc.com) (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/trump-immigration-mexico-republicans-2024-rcna118785)

I glance at MSNBC for "entertainment", but this piece is largely my own view.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2023, 08:31:04 AM

Biden administration waives 26 federal laws to allow border wall construction in South Texas | CNN Politics (https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/05/politics/biden-administration-border-wall/index.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 05, 2023, 08:32:10 AM

good for Joe

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 05, 2023, 08:48:07 AM

Too little too late

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 05, 2023, 08:57:17 AM

better late than never

at least it sends a message

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 05, 2023, 09:05:36 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 05, 2023, 08:13:18 AM

The good news is, it's pouring rain at my house for the first time since June 21st.  We've already had 1.5" since 2 AM.

The bad news, my 16yo daughter is driving to school alone for the first time ever today.  And because it never rains here, she has almost no experience driving in the rain. BUT, she did okay and got to school fine.  Good thing it's only like 0.4 miles away.

It is all about the tires.  Knowing you- that’s been thoroughly attended to.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 05, 2023, 09:08:19 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2023, 08:17:01 AM

Lots of those roads will be very slippery. Glad she's close to home.

Yeah way slippery since it's been so long since we had any rain 'tall.  I drove the boy to middle school a few minutes after she left and it's about .5 mile further down the road, people were driving like absolute buffoons and sliding around a lot.

But 1.5" in the past 6 hours, and all the cars driving on it now, is removing the slickness.  All I can say is, Hooray for some rain!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 05, 2023, 09:16:20 AM

any tire will hydroplane with enough water and enough speed

not that I'd know anything about that

drove through a thunderstorm Tuesday afternoon in Southwestern Nebraska...
old asphalt 2-lane with worn tracks and pushing the speed limit to get trough the storm east to west
best to ride the center line and stay out of the trough

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 05, 2023, 09:25:44 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 05, 2023, 09:16:20 AM

any tire will hydroplane with enough water and enough speed

not that I'd know anything about that

drove through a thunderstorm Tuesday afternoon in Southwestern Nebraska...
old asphalt 2-lane with worn tracks and pushing the speed limit to get trough the storm east to west
best to ride the center line and stay out of the trough

True that any tire wheel hydroplane given substantial enough water.

But some tires perform way way better than others in the rain.

If you have good tires that throw the rain off, then it just becomes being smart and understanding that pavement, especially blacktop, has months and months of built-up exhaust gases that create a film, and then, when mixed with heavy rain, it can affect almost the same as black ice. So just allowing substantial distance from other vehicles, substantial distance for breaking and turning, and no sudden Lane changes, etc. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 05, 2023, 09:30:06 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 05, 2023, 09:25:44 AM

True that any tire wheel hydroplane given substantial enough water.

But some tires perform way way better than others in the rain.

If you have good tires that throw the rain off, then it just becomes being smart and understanding that pavement, especially blacktop, has months and months of built-up exhaust gases that create a film, and then, when mixed with heavy rain, it can affect almost the same as black ice. So just allowing substantial distance from other vehicles, substantial distance for breaking and turning, and no sudden Lane changes, etc. 

Yeah it's very common here since we get rain so infrequently.  Greasy roads are a part of life with the onset of any new rain event.

You'd think folks would drive better in it, but alas, they do not.  I blame all the the yankee transplants.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2023, 09:31:18 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 05, 2023, 09:30:06 AM

Yeah it's very common here since we get rain so infrequently.  Greasy roads are a part of life with the onset of any new rain event.

You'd think folks would drive better in it, but alas, they do not.  I blame all the yankee Cali transplants.

Fixed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2023, 09:41:48 AM

My mom had a Buick Regal from about 1991 that she barely drove and finally gave to my daughter.  I drove it back from Georgia and noticed the car was "unstable", I thought.  It had original tires, probably 12 years old, plenty of tread, but oxidized, and very poor traction.  I changed the tires for new and it handled like new.  

Old tires with good tread are awful.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 05, 2023, 09:48:46 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2023, 09:31:18 AM

Fixed.

Nah, here in CA we have the same phenomenon. Months without rain, followed by a few hours of extreme slippery conditions when it finally does. 

Definitely different than the Midwest where it rains frequently enough that you don't get that buildup.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on October 05, 2023, 09:55:30 AM

Definitely getting a good soaking here 50 miles south of Houston.  We needed it, but a drought is very good for my business.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on October 05, 2023, 10:05:07 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2023, 07:45:15 AM

2. Those things need to be fixed, right? So, what do you do?

As far as raising the retirement age, that would not piss off seniors because he said he would raise the age for people under 40. Seniors are older than 40.

3. All governors have control over the state EPA - and all state agencies/departments. He didn't take control. He already had it.

I'm not going to speak to the rest of your post, but I will generally say that curriculums for K-5 should be reading, writing, math and science. Nothing more.

Disney spoke out against that idea. Why?

For starters we can't tell entire generations that they will be working a few years closer to their death beds because the previous generation (who will be enjoying earlier retirement) couldn't figure it out.

If it were up to me, marijuana would be federally legalized and taxed.  That's billions in revenue that could be put towards SS, medical, and infrastructure.

I generally agree with what you say about the K-5 curriculum.  And that was my point when I replied to HB.  Those things are what's being taught.  The other things you're hearing about are isolated or over exaggerated instances being blown up by conservative media and used as talking points by Republicans to get elected.

Disney spoke on the matter because of the industry that they run.  In that line of work, there are far more people that fall into the LGBT and whatever else spectrum.  Those employees expected Disney to speak on their behalf, and yes that was the result of overdramatic reactions to the legislation .  I understand what's in the bill.

That said, none of the above should matter at all regarding Disney.  They have a right to say whatever they want, whenever they want, about any piece of legislation or politician.  They were afforded that right under A1 of the constitution, which was confirmed by SCOTUS. 

DeSantis can't handle any criticism whatsoever, so he uses his power as governor to punish them for it.  That's government overreach.  Thats big government.  That's something conservatives claim to be against, yet they support it if it falls in line with their beliefs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 05, 2023, 10:16:43 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 05, 2023, 09:48:46 AM

Nah, here in CA we have the same phenomenon. Months without rain, followed by a few hours of extreme slippery conditions when it finally does.

Definitely different than the Midwest where it rains frequently enough that you don't get that buildup.

Yup, I blame the California transplants for plenty, but not this.  At least in Southern California, they're used to the same conditions we are.  

This one goes squarely on the yankees.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2023, 10:28:09 AM

Regarding Disney, they have enjoyed great status in terms of the land they sit on, courtesy of the State of Florida. I'm sure you are aware of this. They can't just say whatever they want.

They (and all corporations) should have stayed in their lane and out of the classrooms. 

We're talking about K-3 here, for God's sake. Let the kids be kids. They can worry about LGBTQRSTUVWXYZ stuff later, when they are capable of understanding it. Maybe 7-8 grade.

That said, it is my view that the war on Disney was unnecessary and petty. Sometimes you just gotta let shit go.

As for raising the retirement age for those under 40, I can see an argument either way. People are living WAY longer than they used to. 

And I don't know about you, but my age to retire with enhanced benefits is 70. Regular benefit is 67. 

Somehow that got raised for my generation (in 1983), and that's OK? 

How about we be reasonable here. If they can raise the age for me (and probably you??), they can raise it for the next group. Yes??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 05, 2023, 10:32:43 AM

NCAA tackling the tough problems....banning recruit photoshoots on unofficial visits....lmao these guys really need to die and fk off already.

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/ncaa-bans-photoshoots-for-recruits-on-unofficial-visits/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 05, 2023, 10:47:12 AM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on October 05, 2023, 10:05:07 AM

For starters we can't tell entire generations that they will be working a few years closer to their death beds because the previous generation (who will be enjoying earlier retirement) couldn't figure it out.

If it were up to me, marijuana would be federally legalized and taxed.  That's billions in revenue that could be put towards SS, medical, and infrastructure.

I generally agree with what you say about the K-5 curriculum.  And that was my point when I replied to HB.  Those things are what's being taught.  The other things you're hearing about are isolated or over exaggerated instances being blown up by conservative media and used as talking points by Republicans to get elected.

Disney spoke on the matter because of the industry that they run.  In that line of work, there are far more people that fall into the LGBT and whatever else spectrum.  Those employees expected Disney to speak on their behalf, and yes that was the result of overdramatic reactions to the legislation .  I understand what's in the bill.

That said, none of the above should matter at all regarding Disney.  They have a right to say whatever they want, whenever they want, about any piece of legislation or politician.  They were afforded that right under A1 of the constitution, which was confirmed by SCOTUS. 

DeSantis can't handle any criticism whatsoever, so he uses his power as governor to punish them for it.  That's government overreach.  Thats big government.  That's something conservatives claim to be against, yet they support it if it falls in line with their beliefs.

An opinion straight out of the far left playbook.  Full is false statements, opinions stated as facts, etc.    my goodness- you are hooked on MSNBC aren’t you. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on October 05, 2023, 11:32:25 AM

I call bullshit on all of it.  First of all there is enough money already coming into the Federal Gov't we could fund medicare/SS/everything else if we just cut the waste and the bullshit.  

Do we really need to spend $600 (or is it $800) billion on "defense"?  I'd opt for a much smaller, well equipped, well trained miliitary that would be not as spread out all over the world.  Because what good would it do to spend all this money on "defense" and not have enough money to fight a war?  Of course, if a real war broke out we'd just borrow or print more money.  

My solution is simple.  Representatives and senators can only be re-elected if the federal budget is x% of GDP.  What that number is is debatable.  Need more money or go into debt?  Fine, but you can't be reelected.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 05, 2023, 11:57:08 AM

Quote from: Gigem on October 05, 2023, 11:32:25 AM

I call bullshit on all of it.  First of all there is enough money already coming into the Federal Gov't we could fund medicare/SS/everything else if we just cut the waste and the bullshit. 

Do we really need to spend $600 (or is it $800) billion on "defense"?  I'd opt for a much smaller, well equipped, well trained miliitary that would be not as spread out all over the world.  Because what good would it do to spend all this money on "defense" and not have enough money to fight a war?  Of course, if a real war broke out we'd just borrow or print more money. 

My solution is simple.  Representatives and senators can only be re-elected if the federal budget is x% of GDP.  What that number is is debatable.  Need more money or go into debt?  Fine, but you can't be reelected. 

US spends more than $1+ trillion per year on defense if everything is included (interest payments on borrowing for 7 wars, nuclear weapons programs- which is part of DoE budget and not DoD). More than the next 12 countries combined, 10 of which are officially "allies". The US has over 800 military bases around the world. Russia and China probably have less than 10. Combined. We have literally 300 bases encircling China alone- ready to bomb on that ass if need be. They have exactly zero encircling us. We've destroyed country after country across the globe over the last 70+ years. But they're the boogey man and we're suppose to be afraid of them. Lol.

Problem is the blatant and out and out corruption in the Pentagon. The Pentagon has yet to pass an audit and can't account for half of it's f**king assets. They spend $1,200 on a hammer and $500 on a toilet seat. $1.7 trillion on a fighter jet program that only flies 50% of the time. Lol. Pentagon's latest pet project is using Ukraine as cannon fodder to launder hundreds of billions of dollars in weapons contracts to it's largest defense contracting benefactors.

Close the bases. Defund Ukraine. Cut the military budget from $1+ trillion to $100 billion. Don't stop there. Start taking a hatchet to every bloated unnecessary gov't bureaucracy. Dismantle the IRS. CIA. FBI. Homeland Security. Blow it all up, scale it all back, fire literally everyone, restart and rebuild them with more tightly constrained controls, get rid of the bloat, the waste, the rot, and the dogshit waste of space piece of shit human beings who work in most of these bloated corpse useless corrupt gov't agencies. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2023, 12:07:31 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 05, 2023, 11:57:08 AM

US spends more than $1+ trillion per year on defense if everything is included (interest payments on borrowing for 7 wars, nuclear weapons programs- which is part of DoE budget and not DoD). More than the next 12 countries combined, 10 of which are officially "allies". The US has over 800 military bases around the world. Russia and China probably have less than 10. Combined. We have literally 300 bases encircling China alone- ready to bomb on that ass if need be. They have exactly zero encircling us. We've destroyed country after country across the globe over the last 70+ years. But they're the boogey man and we're suppose to be afraid of them. Lol.

Problem is the blatant and out and out corruption in the Pentagon. The Pentagon has yet to pass an audit and can't account for half of it's f**king assets. They spend $1,200 on a hammer and $500 on a toilet seat. $1.7 trillion on a fighter jet program that only flies 50% of the time. Lol. Pentagon's latest pet project is using Ukraine as cannon fodder to launder hundreds of billions of dollars in weapons contracts to it's largest defense contracting benefactors.

Close the bases. Defund Ukraine. Cut the military budget from $1+ trillion to $100 billion. Don't stop there. Start taking a hatchet to every bloated unnecessary gov't bureaucracy. Dismantle the IRS. CIA. FBI. Homeland Security. Blow it all up, scale it all back, fire literally everyone, restart and rebuild them with more tightly constrained controls, get rid of the bloat, the waste, the rot, and the dogshit waste of space piece of shit human beings who work in most of these bloated corpse useless corrupt gov't agencies. 

Eisenhower warned us.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on October 05, 2023, 12:13:16 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 05, 2023, 10:47:12 AM

An opinion straight out of the far left playbook.  Full is false statements, opinions stated as facts, etc.    my goodness- you are hooked on MSNBC aren’t you.

This is not the way to have a conversation.  It would seem you are the one hooked on a certain point of view.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 05, 2023, 12:27:07 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 05, 2023, 08:57:17 AM

better late than never

at least it sends a message

It sure does. It says that it is a joke of a gesture that will absolutely nothing to prevent illegal crossings. It also says that this admin cares more about illegal immigrants than they care about American citizens. The guy is a clown. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 05, 2023, 01:00:16 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 05, 2023, 10:32:43 AM

NCAA tackling the tough problems....banning recruit photoshoots on unofficial visits....lmao these guys really need to die and fk off already.

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/ncaa-bans-photoshoots-for-recruits-on-unofficial-visits/

This is something I'm absolutely fine with.  I'm about 99% certain this was something the coaches asked for.  You know they've got to be absolutely sick and tired of wasting their precious recruiting time doing these god-awful photo shoots for every slapdick big-timer wannabe that blows through campus.  How would the NCAA even know about them and bother with them, if the coaches hadn't tipped them off?

I side with the coaches and NCAA on this one.  Stop wasting time, get on with more important stuff like taking the recruits by the sorority houses and getting them laid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 05, 2023, 04:50:40 PM

Quote from: utee94 on October 05, 2023, 01:00:16 PM

This is something I'm absolutely fine with.  I'm about 99% certain this was something the coaches asked for.  You know they've got to be absolutely sick and tired of wasting their precious recruiting time doing these god-awful photo shoots for every slapdick big-timer wannabe that blows through campus.  How would the NCAA even know about them and bother with them, if the coaches hadn't tipped them off?

I side with the coaches and NCAA on this one.  Stop wasting time, get on with more important stuff like taking the recruits by the sorority houses and getting them laid.

I hear you, but is that something really that important that the NCAA has to regulate it? The answer to that is an obvious no.

Photoshoots! OMGGGG NOOOOOOOO!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 05, 2023, 05:01:54 PM

speaking of more NCAA shit-baggery....they finally reverse their decision and allow UNC WR transfer Tez Walker to play. Only after half the season is already over...

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38575487/tez-walker-allowed-play-2023-ncaa-reverses-decision-wr

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2023, 05:09:55 PM

I feel fancy, and uncomfortable, just put on a tux for the first time in years, opening night at the Symphony with a donor dinner beforehand.  Have to look the part, which I'm not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 05, 2023, 05:13:10 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2023, 10:28:09 AM

Regarding Disney, they have enjoyed great status in terms of the land they sit on, courtesy of the State of Florida. I'm sure you are aware of this. They can't just say whatever they want.

They (and all corporations) should have stayed in their lane and out of the classrooms.

We're talking about K-3 here, for God's sake. Let the kids be kids. They can worry about LGBTQRSTUVWXYZ stuff later, when they are capable of understanding it. Maybe 7-8 grade.

That said, it is my view that the war on Disney was unnecessary and petty. Sometimes you just gotta let shit go.

As for raising the retirement age for those under 40, I can see an argument either way. People are living WAY longer than they used to.

And I don't know about you, but my age to retire with enhanced benefits is 70. Regular benefit is 67.

Somehow that got raised for my generation (in 1983), and that's OK?

How about we be reasonable here. If they can raise the age for me (and probably you??), they can raise it for the next group. Yes??

Disney has been given insane special privileges to act as it's own local government. No corporation should have that power, period.

Have to laugh out-loud that it's the disgusting chubby they/thems, LBGTQRETARDS+, shitlibs/libtards, college deadbeat Marxist "capitalism must die", and vote blue no matter who crowd who are all of a sudden in love with out of control corporate power. 

Don't care why DeSantis is going after Disney. He should be. And quite frankly he did not hit at them nearly hard enough. Disney has been getting away with murder in the state of Florida for nearly the last 60 years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 05, 2023, 05:25:58 PM

Rivian, Ford, GM, and Chrysler losing billions every year selling EVs. Ford loses $60,000 on every EV they sell.

Ya don't say....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USVd_k6lQ_c

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 05, 2023, 05:39:04 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 05, 2023, 04:50:40 PM

I hear you, but is that something really that important that the NCAA has to regulate it? The answer to that is an obvious no.

Photoshoots! OMGGGG NOOOOOOOO!

Eh, they're pretty toothless and ineffectual otherwise.  Which is good, because it limits the damage they can do.

I'm fine with them providing relief and some air cover to my coaching staff so they can just start denying these kids their photoshoots.

"Oh, you want some live tigers and a helicopter and the head coach serving you couscous on a platter for your photo shoot?  Man, we would totally love to do that for you, because you are SO important.  But alas, the NCAA has decide it's not allowed.  They're so terrible right?"

Silly stupid photoshoots are absolutely NOT how I want my coaches spending their time when recruits are present.  It's a case of saving the kids from their own naivete and silliness.  That's a good thing.

Like I said, I'm 99% sure that the coaches themselves are the ones who brought it up and asked for some help.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 05, 2023, 05:50:40 PM

Quote from: utee94 on October 05, 2023, 05:39:04 PM

Eh, they're pretty toothless and ineffectual otherwise.  Which is good, because it limits the damage they can do.

I'm fine with them providing relief and some air cover to my coaching staff so they can just start denying these kids their photoshoots.

"Oh, you want some live tigers and a helicopter and the head coach serving you couscous on a platter for your photo shoot?  Man, we would totally love to do that for you, because you are SO important.  But alas, the NCAA has decide it's not allowed.  They're so terrible right?"

Silly stupid photoshoots are absolutely NOT how I want my coaches spending their time when recruits are present.  It's a case of saving the kids from their own naivete and silliness.  That's a good thing.

Like I said, I'm 99% sure that the coaches themselves are the ones who brought it up and asked for some help.

The coaches don't need a rule from the NCAA not to do photoshoots. They can say hey we don't do that here, we're a big boy football team that wins football games, not takes pictures. There is no need for an NCAA bylaw outlawing photoshoots....

NCAA has huge problems with photoshoots, but doesn't care about schools spending $300k on an official visit for a 5* QB....make it make sense.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 05, 2023, 05:58:41 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 05, 2023, 05:50:40 PM

The coaches don't need a rule from the NCAA not to do photoshoots. They can say hey we don't do that here, we're a big boy football team that wins football games, not takes pictures. There is no need for an NCAA bylaw outlawing photoshoots....

NCAA has huge problems with photoshoots, but doesn't care about schools spending $300k on an official visit for a 5* QB....make it make sense.

Texas can't say "no, go pound sand" if Alabama is saying, "sure, bring on the helicopters."  That's just not the way it works.

It started with one coach bending over too far, and then next thing you know everyone has to do it.

Now they have air cover and can say "your idea of a photoshoot sitting on top of an Aztec pyramid with thousands of topless slave women sounds great, but darn that mean old NCAA just won't let us."

Simple solution that gets the coaching staffs off the hook.

And the reason the NCAA "doesn't care" about schools spending $300K on an an official visit, is because the schools haven't told them to care.  The schools are fine with that.  And no it doesn't make sense but there you have it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 05, 2023, 11:24:17 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 05, 2023, 05:50:40 PM

The coaches don't need a rule from the NCAA not to do photoshoots. They can say hey we don't do that here, we're a big boy football team that wins football games, not takes pictures. There is no need for an NCAA bylaw outlawing photoshoots....

NCAA has huge problems with photoshoots, but doesn't care about schools spending $300k on an official visit for a 5* QB....make it make sense.

It’s a fine rule. It’s silly it has to exist. But if college teams had the ability to self regulate and say no to fans, we’d be in a whole different space.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 06, 2023, 04:46:47 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 05, 2023, 11:57:08 AM

US spends more than $1+ trillion per year on defense if everything is included (interest payments on borrowing for 7 wars, nuclear weapons programs- which is part of DoE budget and not DoD). More than the next 12 countries combined, 10 of which are officially "allies". The US has over 800 military bases around the world. Russia and China probably have less than 10. Combined. We have literally 300 bases encircling China alone- ready to bomb on that ass if need be. They have exactly zero encircling us. We've destroyed country after country across the globe over the last 70+ years. But they're the boogey man and we're suppose to be afraid of them. Lol.

Problem is the blatant and out and out corruption in the Pentagon. The Pentagon has yet to pass an audit and can't account for half of it's f**king assets. They spend $1,200 on a hammer and $500 on a toilet seat. $1.7 trillion on a fighter jet program that only flies 50% of the time. Lol. Pentagon's latest pet project is using Ukraine as cannon fodder to launder hundreds of billions of dollars in weapons contracts to it's largest defense contracting benefactors.

Close the bases. Defund Ukraine. Cut the military budget from $1+ trillion to $100 billion. Don't stop there. Start taking a hatchet to every bloated unnecessary gov't bureaucracy. Dismantle the IRS. CIA. FBI. Homeland Security. Blow it all up, scale it all back, fire literally everyone, restart and rebuild them with more tightly constrained controls, get rid of the bloat, the waste, the rot, and the dogshit waste of space piece of shit human beings who work in most of these bloated corpse useless corrupt gov't agencies. 

I'm with you on a lot of this, but the bolded part....no.  That's the worst idea possible.  You can trim the fat and reorganize without taping a bunch of dynamite to it and blowing it up.  Starting back at zero would be self-inflicted harm to the country.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on October 06, 2023, 09:46:27 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2023, 10:28:09 AM

Regarding Disney, they have enjoyed great status in terms of the land they sit on, courtesy of the State of Florida. I'm sure you are aware of this. They can't just say whatever they want.

They (and all corporations) should have stayed in their lane and out of the classrooms.

There are 1,900 special districts in Florida.  Yet DeSantis shut down only 1 of them, and it happened to be the 1 that spoke out about his legislation.

Its a bit troubling that you would say "they can't just say whatever they want".

Yes, they absolutely can.  It's free speech protected by Amendment 1 of the constitution.

Are we to the point where we are talking about shutting down free speech because we don't think the source should be able to say what they said?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 06, 2023, 09:58:40 AM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on October 06, 2023, 09:46:27 AM

There are 1,900 special districts in Florida.  Yet DeSantis shut down only 1 of them, and it happened to be the 1 that spoke out about his legislation.

Its a bit troubling that you would say "they can't just say whatever they want".

Yes, they absolutely can.  It's free speech protected by Amendment 1 of the constitution.

Are we to the point where we are talking about shutting down free speech because we don't think the source should be able to say what they said?

You take this the wrong way.

Someone beholden to me (my employees, for example) can't just say whatever they want to me. They are nails and I have the hammer.

(Simple example. I have great people so this would not happen.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 06, 2023, 10:09:38 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 06, 2023, 09:58:40 AM

Someone beholden to me (my employees, for example) can't just say whatever they want to me. They are nails and I have the hammer.

We're all beholden to the government. They're a big effing hammer and see all of us as nails. But that's why we have the First Amendment--to protect us.

Your argument is effectively "if we give anyone any sort of privilege, i.e. a special administrative district (which as pointed out there are 1900 statewide) then they lose all rights to criticize us."

Well, you can extend that to ALL sorts of areas where the government gives out some sort of benefit or privilege, whether it's to individuals, corporations, non-profits, etc. Do all those groups forfeit their right to free speech? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 06, 2023, 10:12:54 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 06, 2023, 09:58:40 AM

You take this the wrong way.

Someone beholden to me (my employees, for example) can't just say whatever they want to me. They are nails and I have the hammer.

(Simple example. I have great people so this would not happen.)

I am hesitant to weigh in here, but your employer-employee relationship is not that of a company in a state and a state (even a company given a great deal of historical largesse).

The government is not supposed to punish you for most speech, especially speech redressing the government. That whole kerfuffle was directly described as punishment and an effort to control what was being said.

Now, one can say that act was poor form, but like the pol overall. But it was an attempt by government to tamp down speech it didn’t like. If we want to argue that the government should have broad ability to do that, it’s a conversation. But it is what it is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 06, 2023, 10:14:37 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 06, 2023, 10:09:38 AM

We're all beholden to the government. They're a big effing hammer and see all of us as nails. But that's why we have the First Amendment--to protect us.

Your argument is effectively "if we give anyone any sort of privilege, i.e. a special administrative district (which as pointed out there are 1900 statewide) then they lose all rights to criticize us."

Well, you can extend that to ALL sorts of areas where the government gives out some sort of benefit or privilege, whether it's to individuals, corporations, non-profits, etc. Do all those groups forfeit their right to free speech?

Nope. Anyone can say whatever they want at any time. Consequences may follow.

Another example. If I publicly praised #45, the FBI would be on me. 

But no, that's not suppression.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 06, 2023, 10:24:02 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 06, 2023, 10:14:37 AM

Nope. Anyone can say whatever they want at any time. Consequences may follow.

Another example. If I publicly praised #45, the FBI would be on me.

But no, that's not suppression.

Exactly. 

Free speech is such a nuanced concept.

If an NFL owner says “ I like white people better than black people” will there be consequences.  Very serious consequences?  Off course. What if a governor said that? A mayor?   

Yes- that is an extreme example and obviously racist. 

But what if it’s the other way around. What if the comment was “ I like black people better than White people”.    Would there be consequences?  Serious ones?  Our real life examples tell us that there would not be.    So who really has “ Free Speech”

If Disney wants to make a public stand on a highly contentious issue- they are free to do so. But, like Bud Light- you should weigh what the potential consequences might be. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 06, 2023, 10:26:42 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 06, 2023, 10:14:37 AM

Nope. Anyone can say whatever they want at any time. Consequences may follow.

Another example. If I publicly praised #45, the FBI would be on me.

But no, that's not suppression.

Hey, I get you. It's gotta be hard. You come from a state that treats corporations like the mafia... "Nice business ya got here... Shame if something were to, uhh, regulate it. With extreme prejudice."

And now you moved to Florida and you're so used to it that you can't imagine a state government actually respecting freedom. 

Typical transplant behavior... Try to make the new place just like the place you fled. :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 06, 2023, 10:29:48 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 06, 2023, 10:24:02 AM

Exactly. 

Free speech is such a nuanced concept.

If an NFL owner says “ I like white people better than black people” will there be consequences.  Very serious consequences?  Off course. What if a governor said that? A mayor?   

Yes- that is an extreme example and obviously racist. 

But what if it’s the other way around. What if the comment was “ I like black people better than White people”.    Would there be consequences?  Serious ones?  Our real life examples tell us that there would not be.    So who really has “ Free Speech”

If Disney wants to make a public stand on a highly contentious issue- they are free to do so. But, like Bud Light- you should weigh what the potential consequences might be. 

There are, of course, consequences for unpopular speech. An NFL owner might, like Dan Snyder, have so much public outcry that they have to sell their team. A governor or a mayor will probably get drilled in the next election. Bud Light saw a major drop in sales. If people don't like what Disney said, they can respond appropriately by boycotting Disney. 

The idea of the First Amendment is that there shouldn't be *government* consequences/punishment for unpopular speech. I don't see any nuance we have to explore there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 06, 2023, 10:32:05 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 06, 2023, 10:26:42 AM

Hey, I get you. It's gotta be hard. You come from a state that treats corporations like the mafia... "Nice business ya got here... Shame if something were to, uhh, regulate it. With extreme prejudice."

And now you moved to Florida and you're so used to it that you can't imagine a state government actually respecting freedom.

Typical transplant behavior... Try to make the new place just like the place you fled. :57:

Where did I ever say I supported the actions of the Governor?

Because I do not.

What I support is government and corporations staying in their lane and out social affairs.

If the parents in Florida don't want their very young kids reading about sexual orientation, that's fine. It's a damn shame that the State had to take action to protect them in the first place. It's insanity at best.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 06, 2023, 10:33:10 AM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on October 06, 2023, 09:46:27 AM

There are 1,900 special districts in Florida.  Yet DeSantis shut down only 1 of them, and it happened to be the 1 that spoke out about his legislation.

this is not exactly true. yes there are 1,800+ special districts in Florida- and I'd wager that the vast majority of those are cdd's (community development districts- aka master planned communities) - and absolutely none of them operate like Disney's Reedy Creek Improvement District- which has essentially allowed for nearly 60 years for a single corporation to be it's own fu*king county government in perpetuity. Disney has the right to seize land via eminent domain even if the land falls outside the district’s boundaries, it has the right to build a nuclear power plant, airport, create conservation areas, build its own public utilities- rights other special districts in the state do not have. And to make matters even more preposterous, Disney controls who sits on the five-member board that governs the district. This is the actual definition of fascism. When corporations = the state. Yet you actually have people cheering Disney on, thinking it's A-OK. Newsflash. It's not OK. #DeathtoDisney. 

There is a major push right now from state legislators in Florida to put every single special district in the state to a referendum. I'm cool with that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 06, 2023, 10:40:14 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 06, 2023, 04:46:47 AM

I'm with you on a lot of this, but the bolded part....no.  That's the worst idea possible.  You can trim the fat and reorganize without taping a bunch of dynamite to it and blowing it up.  Starting back at zero would be self-inflicted harm to the country.

You may be right. All I'm saying is, those government agencies didn't always exist. They are modern creations of the 20th century. They don't have to exist. We can easily get rid of them, start new ones with more tightly controlled constraints on power. Many government agencies have come and gone through the years. The IRS/FBI/CIA/NSA/Homeland Security, etc., etc., does not have a right to exist. They can be scrapped to the dust bin of history whenever. The US survived without them before, and would survive without them again. I think when things are as bad as they are- probably a better idea to just fire everyone, close them down, and restart from scratch. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 06, 2023, 10:48:12 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 06, 2023, 10:29:48 AM

There are, of course, consequences for unpopular speech. An NFL owner might, like Dan Snyder, have so much public outcry that they have to sell their team. A governor or a mayor will probably get drilled in the next election. Bud Light saw a major drop in sales. If people don't like what Disney said, they can respond appropriately by boycotting Disney.

The idea of the First Amendment is that there shouldn't be *government* consequences/punishment for unpopular speech. I don't see any nuance we have to explore there.

 Nice concept. It only woks if it applies to both major tribes.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 06, 2023, 11:45:26 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 06, 2023, 10:48:12 AM

Nice concept. It only woks if it applies to both major tribes. 

Got an example of someone in your tribe being prosecuted for protected speech? 

(And no, the big orange thing in the room doesn't count--whether he is convicted for that or not will rest on whether his speech was "incitement", which is one of the very few exceptions that is not afforded protection.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on October 06, 2023, 11:46:11 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2023, 10:28:09 AM

We're talking about K-3 here, for God's sake. Let the kids be kids. They can worry about LGBTQRSTUVWXYZ stuff later, when they are capable of understanding it. Maybe 7-8 grade.

How about we be reasonable here. If they can raise the age for me (and probably you??), they can raise it for the next group. Yes??

I agree with your first point.  However, it leads us back to what I said earlier...this was never an issue to begin with.

No teachers or school districts were creating curriculum based on teaching this stuff to elementary kids.  It simply wasn't happening.
DeSantis passed this type of legislation to score points for his presidential run.

Btw, how do all our Florida people feel about DeSantis making and exemption to Florida law so that he would not have to resign as governor in order to run for president?  This was a law that stood for many years and he obviously did it for himself.

How do Floridians feel about DeSantis using millions  of tax payer money to fund his trips to Japan, Iowa, etc, etc?  The guy is a total hypocrite clown.

To your second point, at what point do we stop raising the age?  There has to be a line drawn somewhere, otherwise retirement will take place in the grave.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 06, 2023, 11:48:26 AM

I'm shocked a politician would publically "solve" a nonexistent problem for political points.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 06, 2023, 12:11:21 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 06, 2023, 10:29:48 AM

There are, of course, consequences for unpopular speech. An NFL owner might, like Dan Snyder, have so much public outcry that they have to sell their team. A governor or a mayor will probably get drilled in the next election. Bud Light saw a major drop in sales. If people don't like what Disney said, they can respond appropriately by boycotting Disney.

The idea of the First Amendment is that there shouldn't be *government* consequences/punishment for unpopular speech. I don't see any nuance we have to explore there.

It’s also worth noting, the speech is not just “unpopular” (at least with the powers that be). It was also speech that focused on redressing the government, which is considered some of the most protected.

I hope that in our heart of hearts, we can all say that it is a bad, bad thing when the consequences for speech against policy is punishment from the government. Even if the find that policy morally upstanding and right.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 06, 2023, 12:13:13 PM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on October 06, 2023, 11:46:11 AM

I agree with your first point.  However, it leads us back to what I said earlier...this was never an issue to begin with.

No teachers or school districts were creating curriculum based on teaching this stuff to elementary kids.  It simply wasn't happening.
DeSantis passed this type of legislation to score points for his presidential run.

Btw, how do all our Florida people feel about DeSantis making and exemption to Florida law so that he would not have to resign as governor in order to run for president?  This was a law that stood for many years and he obviously did it for himself.

How do Floridians feel about DeSantis using millions  of tax payer money to fund his trips to Japan, Iowa, etc, etc?  The guy is a total hypocrite clown.

To your second point, at what point do we stop raising the age?  There has to be a line drawn somewhere, otherwise retirement will take place in the grave.

1. My brother back up North would beg to differ.

2. Pretty sure that's a crime. His campaign fund should be paying for anything not related to official Florida business.

3. It was raised 40 years ago, to 67, for people born after 1960. It's 2023. Raise it to 69, for people born after 2000.

When Social "Security" was enacted in 1935, life expectancy was 61 for men and 65 for women. Retirement in the grave, as you put it, since the age was 65 then.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 06, 2023, 12:14:30 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 06, 2023, 12:11:21 PM

I hope that in our heart of hearts, we can all say that it is a bad, bad thing when the consequences for speech against policy is punishment from the government. Even if the find that policy morally upstanding and right.

I'm sure we can do that here.

I'd hope "equality for all" comes into play too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 06, 2023, 12:49:43 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 06, 2023, 12:14:30 PM

I'm sure we can do that here.

I'd hope "equality for all" comes into play too.

Oh yeah.

If someone says, “I will try to stop this liberal policy from going into effect” and is punished for doing so, that is some trash. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 06, 2023, 12:59:03 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 06, 2023, 12:49:43 PM

Oh yeah.

If someone says, “I will try to stop this liberal policy from going into effect” and is punished for doing so, that is some trash.

How about the woman in London arrested because she appeared to be preying outside an abortion clinic

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 06, 2023, 01:01:19 PM

who was she preying on?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 06, 2023, 01:04:19 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 06, 2023, 12:59:03 PM

How about the woman in London arrested because she appeared to be preying outside an abortion clinic

Depending on what that woman was doing, attempting to prey on someone in a vulnerable position is a bad idea at best and serious criminal charges at worst. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 06, 2023, 01:52:52 PM

https://www.ncregister.com/cna/woman-arrested-for-silent-prayer-at-uk-abortion-clinics-gets-police-apology

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 06, 2023, 02:07:15 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 06, 2023, 12:59:03 PM

How about the woman in London arrested because she appeared to be preying outside an abortion clinic

It's a good argument for why the First Amendment is so damn important. Because, ya know, these are the kinds of things that you get when you don't have it. 

Always remember... When you try to take away someone else's right to freedom of speech, you're inherently admitting that yours might be up for debate too... That's true even if "someone else" is a collection of individuals in a corporate form. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 06, 2023, 03:00:20 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 06, 2023, 12:59:03 PM

How about the woman in London arrested because she appeared to be preying outside an abortion clinic

Some real trash that is. 

Shoot, we have people who stand outside such clinics and scream at people going in and out. And that’s textbook, “I find this distasteful, but believe it falls within the bounds of protection.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 06, 2023, 03:07:01 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 06, 2023, 11:45:26 AM

Got an example of someone in your tribe being prosecuted for protected speech?

(And no, the big orange thing in the room doesn't count--whether he is convicted for that or not will rest on whether his speech was "incitement", which is one of the very few exceptions that is not afforded protection.)

First I hate both tribes with a passion. 
second- I am not, never was and never will be a fan of the big orange thing in the room.

Lastly- why are choosing prosecution.  As your benchmark. Do you think anyone who was at the capitol on January 6th, and who did nothing but protest, has been prosecuted? ( hint- it is a big number)

Lastly again- can you not admit that powerful arms of the US Government ( CIA, DOJ, FBI, FHFA ) are not fully weaponized and controlled by one tribe right now?  Trying to control online speech, media, who gets prosecuted for what and who doesn’t, who has their home raided with TV cameras ther coincidentally?

Because if you can’t admit that- I can’t take you seriously on this topic. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 06, 2023, 03:08:33 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 06, 2023, 03:00:20 PM

Some real trash that is.

Shoot, we have people who stand outside such clinics and scream at people going in and out. And that’s textbook, “I find this distasteful, but believe it falls within the bounds of protection.”

How an out people who burn down pro life facilities??   Do you think they are rigorously pursued and prosecuted?   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 06, 2023, 03:12:57 PM

Disney is not being prosecuted. WTF are some of yous rambling on about?

They were granted EXTREME special privileges in 1967 by an act of legislation in the state of Florida. The state can decide to enact new legislation and revoke those EXTREME SPECIAL PRIVILEGES at any time it deems it wants to. Disney does NOT have the inalienable right to be it's own motherfu*king COUNTY GOVERNMENT.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 06, 2023, 03:28:34 PM

First, figure out where any overseas security commitments should be retained, and only then figure what sort of military we need for that.  As I noted before, if we pulled back entirely from everything, we could spend a lot less on the military.  There are some probable reactions by other countries out there we might find disagreeable, but perhaps it's worth the cost.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 06, 2023, 03:30:49 PM

How do the people of Florida feel?

According to exit polls (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edison_Research), DeSantis won 65% of White voters (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Americans), 13% of Black voters (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Americans), and 58% of Latinos (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_and_Latino_Americans); of the latter group, DeSantis won 69% of Cubans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_migration_to_Miami) and 56% of Puerto Ricans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stateside_Puerto_Ricans).^{[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Florida_gubernatorial_election#cite_note-:0-6)} DeSantis' large margin of victory was in part due to him flipping Democratic stronghold Miami-Dade County (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami-Dade_County) for the first time since 2002 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Florida_gubernatorial_election), and Palm Beach County (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_Beach_County) for the first time since 1986 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_Florida_gubernatorial_election), as well as winning Hillsborough (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_County,_Florida), Osceola (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osceola_County,_Florida), Pinellas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinellas_County,_Florida), and St. Lucie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Lucie_County,_Florida) counties for the first time since 2006 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Florida_gubernatorial_election); this was also the first gubernatorial election since 2006 in which a candidate received over 50% of the vote. His 19.4% margin of victory was the largest since 1982 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Florida_gubernatorial_election) and the largest for a Republican since 1868 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1868_Florida_gubernatorial_election). It was also the first time the governorship was won by double digits since 2002, and the first time it was won by over one million votes."

You call him  clown- fine.  But look who the other party is putting up there to run against him.   Gillum...are you kidding me.   And you wonder why Desantis got reelected so easily. Corruption, drugs, underage men in his room... but DeSantis is the clown.  :72:

After losing to DeSantis, Andrew Gillum crashed and burned, taking the Florida Democratic Party with him | Opinion BY THE MIAMI HERALD EDITORIAL BOARD UPDATED APRIL 19, 2023 10:04 AM

Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/editorials/article274402735.html#storylink=cpy




Gillum lost to Republican candidate DeSantis, then an unknown quantity in South Florida, by fewer than 34,000 votes, or 0.41 percentage points. If federal prosecutors are right, behind that enthusiastic, young candidate hid a different version of Gillum. The former mayor of Tallahassee and a former political adviser went to trial on corruption-related charges on Monday. It’s hard not to be relieved a sitting governor was not indicted. Although the Herald Editorial Board recommended him in 2018, it’s a stroke of luck Gillum didn’t win. Imagine the chaos and instability his arrest would have created were he in office. Gillum bears a big share of the blame for delivering us the semi-autocratic DeSantis. He was dogged during the 2018 campaign by an FBI public corruption investigation into Tallahassee City Hall. There were the tickets to Broadway’s hit musical “Hamilton” he got from undercover agents posing as developers. It’s likely that cost him at least some of those 34,000 votes that gave DeSantis a win. A Gillum governorship would have looked very different, minus the scandals. No culture wars in the state, no “Don’t say gay” law, no attacks on academic freedom at state universities, no six-week bans on abortion — a different, but, unfortunately, fantasy world. After his loss, Gillum promised to continue his fight, saying that, although he had lost to DeSantis, he would sign up 1 million more Democratic voters. It didn’t happen, then he unraveled. In 2020, Gillum was found by police in a South Beach hotel room in the company of a man who appeared to have overdosed on drugs. Rehab followed. And last year, he was indicted by a federal grand jury, accused of lying to FBI agents and defrauding campaign mega-donors and organizations that believed they were donating to legitimate political causes. He denies wrongdoing and accuses the investigation of being political, the same trope we have heard from Donald Trump about his legal issues. Gillum could have made history as the first Black governor of Florida, but his own


Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/editorials/article274402735.html#storylink=cpy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on October 06, 2023, 04:16:17 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 06, 2023, 03:30:49 PM

How do the people of Florida feel?

You call him  clown- fine.  But look who the other party is putting up there to run against him.  Gillum...are you kidding me.  And you wonder why Desantis got reelected so easily. Corruption, drugs, underage men in his room... but DeSantis is the clown.  :72:

DeSantis did not run against Gillum for reelection.  The exit polls you posted are ancient at this point, from 2018.

I'm well aware of what happened with Gillum.  Maybe you didn't notice, but the contest Between DeSantis vs Gillum was decided by a count of 49.6% to 49.2%.

What does that say about DeSantis if can barely beat a drug addict passed out in a South Beach hotel? Clown is what I'd call him.

You claim to "hate both tribes" but you sure are triggered when I criticize DeSantis.

DeSantis ran against Charlie Crist for reelection in 2022.  Crist is a former Republican governor propped up by Democrats like Weekend at Bernies because they decided to abandon Florida to contest MAGA candidates elsewhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 06, 2023, 04:28:12 PM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on October 06, 2023, 04:16:17 PM

DeSantis did not run against Gillum for reelection.  The exit polls you posted are ancient at this point, from 2018.

I'm well aware of what happened with Gillum.  Maybe you didn't notice, but the contest Between DeSantis vs Gillum was decided by a count of 49.6% to 49.2%.

What does that say about DeSantis if can barely beat a drug addict passed out in a South Beach hotel? Clown is what I'd call him.

You claim to "hate both tribes" but you sure are triggered when I criticize DeSantis.

To be fair, that happened after the election...

I'd say Florida dodged a bullet.

I used to like DeSantis, but much like #45, I find him to be not likeable anymore.

Getting past that hurdle, I like most of the policies that are in place now.

I do not like the new Constitutional carry law, for example. I believe everyone should be required to take training courses to have that right. It's one thing to be in possession in your home. Completely different animal to be out and about carrying a gun with no training.

I do not like that he changed the rules so he could run for POTUS while being Governor here. He should be Governing here and doing the job he was elected to do - FULL TIME. 

In my castle, <<looks behind to make sure the wife isn't watching>> of which I am king, we don't vote for politicians. We vote for policies.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 06, 2023, 04:42:44 PM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on October 06, 2023, 04:16:17 PM

DeSantis did not run against Gillum for reelection.  The exit polls you posted are ancient at this point, from 2018.

I'm well aware of what happened with Gillum.  Maybe you didn't notice, but the contest Between DeSantis vs Gillum was decided by a count of 49.6% to 49.2%.

What does that say about DeSantis if can barely beat a drug addict passed out in a South Beach hotel? Clown is what I'd call him.

You claim to "hate both tribes" but you sure are triggered when I criticize DeSantis.

DeSantis ran against Charlie Crist for reelection in 2022.  Crist is a former Republican governor propped up by Democrats like Weekend at Bernies because they decided to abandon Florida to contest MAGA candidates elsewhere.

Jesus.  Talk about triggered.

Reading comprehension is your friend

If you look at what I posted, I’m telling you that the reason DeSantis was able to win so heavily in reelection is exactly because of who the opposition put up to run against him in 16.  The title of the article is that Gilliam brought the whole party down because of the shit he did after the election.
If you’re going to complain about the current governor, maybe you need to support a candidate that can hold his water

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 06, 2023, 04:48:43 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 06, 2023, 04:28:12 PM

To be fair, that happened after the election...

I'd say Florida dodged a bullet.

I used to like DeSantis, but much like #45, I find him to be not likeable anymore.

Getting past that hurdle, I like most of the policies that are in place now.

I do not like the new Constitutional carry law, for example. I believe everyone should be required to take training courses to have that right. It's one thing to be in possession in your home. Completely different animal to be out and about carrying a gun with no training.

I do not like that he changed the rules so he could run for POTUS while being Governor here. He should be Governing here and doing the job he was elected to do - FULL TIME.

In my castle, <<looks behind to make sure the wife isn't watching>> of which I am king, we don't vote for politicians. We vote for policies.

I never found him likable. Like you, I do agree with the majority of his policies. 

but what makes me root for him is the unwavering, generally false narratives in attacks by the media, and the people who believe it like certain people in this forum. 

“ oh- he is against black people”.  Yeah. Ok. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 06, 2023, 04:55:59 PM

say whatever you want about DeSantis, in the scheme of things he has been a solid governor for his state and he is without question an infinitely better governor than gigantic pieces of human shit like Gretchen Whitmer or Gavin Newsome- who have been nothing but epic failures and disastrous for their respective states.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 06, 2023, 05:00:21 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 06, 2023, 03:28:34 PM

First, figure out where any overseas security commitments should be retained, and only then figure what sort of military we need for that.  As I noted before, if we pulled back entirely from everything, we could spend a lot less on the military.  There are some probable reactions by other countries out there we might find disagreeable, but perhaps it's worth the cost.

overseas security commitments is a cute way of not saying what it's all about....empire.

our bases have nothing to do with "security commitments" and everything to do with...empire. we're the new Romans. except with way better weapons. and we're way f**king fatter and way f**cking dumber.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: WhiskeyM on October 06, 2023, 05:09:45 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 06, 2023, 04:28:12 PM

To be fair, that happened after the election...

I'd say Florida dodged a bullet.

I used to like DeSantis, but much like #45, I find him to be not likeable anymore.

Getting past that hurdle, I like most of the policies that are in place now.

I do not like the new Constitutional carry law, for example. I believe everyone should be required to take training courses to have that right. It's one thing to be in possession in your home. Completely different animal to be out and about carrying a gun with no training.

I do not like that he changed the rules so he could run for POTUS while being Governor here. He should be Governing here and doing the job he was elected to do - FULL TIME.

In my castle, <<looks behind to make sure the wife isn't watching>> of which I am king, we don't vote for politicians. We vote for policies.

I agree 100% on the constitutional carry.  My wife and I both own guns can't stand the fact that ignorant people can now be almost anywhere with them.

Honestly don't have too much issue with HB 1557 at its core.  As I've said in previous posts, my problem is that it is totally unnecessary.  It was done as a political sideshow in Florida to score points for a national election.  And it lead to a critical fight on free speech.  Totally avoidable by a bill that had no need to exist in the first place.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 06, 2023, 05:30:26 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 06, 2023, 03:07:01 PM

Lastly- why are choosing prosecution.  As your benchmark. Do you think anyone who was at the capitol on January 6th, and who did nothing but protest, has been prosecuted? ( hint- it is a big number)

There are people who didn't trespass inside the Capitol Building and didn't destroy property, who were just protesting outside the Capitol Building, who were prosecuted? Got a source? 

Quote

Lastly again- can you not admit that powerful arms of the US Government ( CIA, DOJ, FBI, FHFA ) are not fully weaponized and controlled by one tribe right now?  Trying to control online speech, media, who gets prosecuted for what and who doesn’t, who has their home raided with TV cameras ther coincidentally?

I have lots of issues. Including the efforts of the administration to control "disinformation", much of which eventually was proven at least plausible as true, if not determined correct. The efforts to control online speech and media is something I've railed against constantly. 

Beyond that, I don't think there's a whole lot of efforts to weaponize prosecutions or protect people from them. After all, Menendez in NJ is part of one tribe and it's his own colleagues trying to get him to resign. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 06, 2023, 05:52:16 PM

Quote from: WhiskeyM on October 06, 2023, 05:09:45 PM

Honestly don't have too much issue with HB 1557 at its core.  As I've said in previous posts, my problem is that it is totally unnecessary.  It was done as a political sideshow in Florida to score points for a national election.  And it lead to a critical fight on free speech. 

bolded part....agreed. I believe DeSantis planned on running for President basically the day Trump lost the 2020 election and everything he's done since has been calculated to boost his profile and try to win the GOP nomination for 2024.

Underlined part...not seeing a critical fight on free speech. What are you referring to?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 06, 2023, 07:07:37 PM

so anyone else find this whole civil case with Trump in New York completely insane?

Not only was every cent of every loan paid back, but the preposterous idea that any bank would just give him a loan because he wrote down a made up value on a piece of paper is absolutely insane. No large commercial bank is going to give anyone a loan secured against property without hiring a 3rd party licensed appraiser. Where's the fraud?

This judge who ruled against Trump is a motherf**king RETARD by the way. Trying to use the Palm Beach County property appraisers tax assessment of $18-21 million for Mar-A-Lago as proof that Trump committed some sort of fraud. EL OH F*CKING EL. Mar-A-Lago is 20 acres on Palm Beach island and spans from Oceanfront to Intercostal. Palm Beach is only the most exclusive, expensive real estate market in oh, maybe the entire f**cking world. Mar-A-Lago is worth $1 billion right now, today. AT LEAST.

If anyone needed anymore proof they are really out to get this guy by any means necessary and bastardizing the law to do it- well, that bullshit case is proof positive of it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on October 06, 2023, 10:06:07 PM

https://twitter.com/HimymCraig/status/1709328479278243955?t=L9wSo_I6OUhW-svxd_D7cA&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 07, 2023, 12:03:20 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 06, 2023, 03:08:33 PM

How an out people who burn down pro life facilities??  Do you think they are rigorously pursued and prosecuted? 

I don't think that counts as a free speech issue. I think the folks who burn down those buildings are generally bad. I clump them with the pro-life folks who shoot abortionists. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 07, 2023, 12:13:38 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 06, 2023, 03:07:01 PM

Lastly again- can you not admit that powerful arms of the US Government ( CIA, DOJ, FBI, FHFA ) are not fully weaponized and controlled by one tribe right now?  Trying to control online speech, media, who gets prosecuted for what and who doesn’t, who has their home raided with TV cameras ther coincidentally?

Because if you can’t admit that- I can’t take you seriously on this topic. 

I suppose that word is an interesting one to me. 

What the fella down in Florida seems to do is to weaponize all sorts of parts of government against folks he wants to go after. His government tried to control online speech. It used the threat of third-party lawsuits to chill minor speech in schools. But it doesn't get categorized as weaponization. 

It's sort of weird. Sometimes we want crime to be illegal. But then when you can say "this is plausibly crime" it's weaponized. 

(The home raiding is interesting because of course it happens to a lot of folks. Some folks here would probably cheer about. Some are mostly innocent people who go through some real unpleasantness. Cops often tip TV folks. Sometimes even walk out with empty boxes to make themselves look good)

I guess what I'm saying is, one tribe's weaponization seems to end up another's righteous pursuit of justice or whatnot. As does relatively common police practice, until it is turned on a famous pol. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 07, 2023, 12:16:03 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 06, 2023, 04:28:12 PM

I do not like the new Constitutional carry law, for example. I believe everyone should be required to take training courses to have that right. It's one thing to be in possession in your home. Completely different animal to be out and about carrying a gun with no training.

I'm always interested in this sort of thing, as I've moved toward being a nihilist on the subject. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 07, 2023, 09:12:58 AM

Damn.  More violence in the Middle East.   

My better half is in Israel right now- but took a couple day excursion to the Red Sea in Egypt.   Not sure if/ when they can return to Tel Aviv.  

I hate this shit.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 07, 2023, 09:26:16 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 07, 2023, 09:12:58 AM

Damn.  More violence in the Middle East. 

My better half is in Israel right now- but took a couple day excursion to the Red Sea in Egypt.  Not sure if/ when they can return to Tel Aviv. 

I hate this shit. 

Damn poor timing

Hope for the best for your loved ones Honestbuckeye

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on October 07, 2023, 10:02:07 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 07, 2023, 12:16:03 AM

I'm always interested in this sort of thing, as I've moved toward being a nihilist on the subject.

I've never carried a gun. I don't even own a handgun, just rifles and shotguns.  I was shocked to learn how many people I know carried guns on their person on a regular basis.  Like they're in some kind of war zone, when in reality none of them I know have even been robbed or assaulted.  I don't even worry about it.  And I've always thought that if I did carry I would always carry concealed.  

One minor correction- the only time I carried a gun on my person was when my brother was making threats towards me.  Given his history or assault and violence I carried for a short time, about 2 weeks.  

If I felt the need, I would not hesitate to carry and I've often thought I probably should get some kind of carry-able self defense, but then I realize the news over-blows so much shit.  Even if society breaks down due to a new pandemic or some other threat I'd feel much better with my shot guns and other long rifles.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 07, 2023, 10:05:15 AM

I never carry either.  I got my CCL in Ohio a while back, and toted one around for a day or two.  It was heavy and inconvenient.  I really got the CCL to be able to carry one to the shooting range without any issues.

We don't need a CCL here any more.  I think it very important for folks who carry to understand the legal requirements involved in actually using one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 07, 2023, 10:15:17 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 07, 2023, 10:05:15 AM

I never carry either.  I got my CCL in Ohio a while back, and toted one around for a day or two.  It was heavy and inconvenient.  I really got the CCL to be able to carry one to the shooting range without any issues.

We don't need a CCL here any more.  I think it very important for folks who carry to understand the legal requirements involved in actually using one.

This is what most people don't get.

IF you use it, understand that you WILL be going to the cop shop, regardless of circumstance, even if you don't shoot.

If you are completely justified, you go home. If there is any doubt, you will spend at least one night in jail.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 07, 2023, 10:16:04 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 07, 2023, 09:12:58 AM

Damn.  More violence in the Middle East. 

My better half is in Israel right now- but took a couple day excursion to the Red Sea in Egypt.  Not sure if/ when they can return to Tel Aviv. 

I hate this shit. 

Well the important thing is she is safe. Have you been in communication?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 07, 2023, 10:25:00 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 06, 2023, 07:07:37 PM

Trying to use the Palm Beach County property appraisers tax assessment of $18-21 million for Mar-A-Lago as proof that Trump committed some sort of fraud. EL OH F*CKING EL. Mar-A-Lago is 20 acres on Palm Beach island and spans from Oceanfront to Intercostal. Palm Beach is only the most exclusive, expensive real estate market in oh, maybe the entire f**cking world. Mar-A-Lago is worth $1 billion right now, today. AT LEAST.

I just did some looking, and yeah, you're close to being right about the Billion thing.

This is just down the road. Probably won't get $150 Million, but more like $75 Million - $32.9 Million per acre.

(https://i.imgur.com/1lgBKWR.png)

This one is just up the road and not on any water.


(https://i.imgur.com/qi5N7tA.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 07, 2023, 10:25:41 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 07, 2023, 10:16:04 AM

Well the important thing is she is safe. Have you been in communication?

Text yes.  She has made the decision to get out of Egypt because they are likely going to close the border. I have her location live on my phone. 

in a taxi now- driving towards border into southern Isreal.   Scares the hell out of me because this attack is different- not just rockets.  Hamas militants on the ground, killing and kidnapping civilians 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2023, 10:27:47 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 07, 2023, 10:15:17 AM

This is what most people don't get.

IF you use it, understand that you WILL be going to the cop shop, regardless of circumstance, even if you don't shoot.

If you are completely justified, you go home. If there is any doubt, you will spend at least one night in jail.

Another issue is when people are carrying and trained on their weapon of HOW to use it, that training needs to heavily involve WHEN to use it.
I assume it has some component of that, but I hope it's a major portion of it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 07, 2023, 10:29:51 AM

I had the 16 hours of training for the CCL.  We spent a fair bit of time on the law, questions and answers, some of it was murky.  The law is murky in Ohio in spots.

There was time spent on gun safety which most of us knew OK, some on history (not much), and some practical.

There was another 30 hour course offered that I signed up for but never took.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 07, 2023, 10:30:37 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2023, 10:27:47 AM

Another issue is when people are carrying and trained on their weapon of HOW to use it, that training needs to heavily involve WHEN to use it.
I assume it has some component of that, but I hope it's a major portion of it. 

Exactly correct.

All of my training talked about the law and the when-to-use thing and how it BETTER be absolutely necessary.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 07, 2023, 10:31:12 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 07, 2023, 10:25:41 AM

Text yes.  She has made the decision to get out of Egypt because they are likely going to close the border. I have her location live on my phone.

in a taxi now- driving towards border into southern Isreal.  Scares the hell out of me because this attack is different- not just rockets.  Hamas militants on the ground, killing and kidnapping civilians

Will she come directly home? I really hope that answer is yes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2023, 10:31:33 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 07, 2023, 10:25:00 AM

I just did some looking, and yeah, you're close to being right about the Billion thing.

This is just down the road. Probably won't get $150 Million, but more like $75 Million - $32.9 Million per acre.

(https://i.imgur.com/1lgBKWR.png)

This one is just up the road and not on any water.


(https://i.imgur.com/qi5N7tA.png)

I'm guessing those are nice inside, too, and would remain when purchased.

Mar-a-Lago is likely very dated and probably tacky as shit and would be gutted or demolished by someone spending that much money.  That knocks down the value considerably if that's the general consensus of the property.  
That ignores the fact that it's Trump's, and may be kept intact due to his being a past president, etc.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 07, 2023, 10:31:52 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2023, 10:27:47 AM

Another issue is when people are carrying and trained on their weapon of HOW to use it, that training needs to heavily involve WHEN to use it.
I assume it has some component of that, but I hope it's a major portion of it. 

It is. But your point is well taken.  It is difficult to stay calm in situations where life threatening things are potentially happening. 

I have been robbed at gunpoint once and by knife once.  

I never owned a weapon until I started watching the BLM riots on TV and saw so many white people or otherwise innocent people, being beaten, and some fire.  

Although I live in Florida and could easily, Carrie, I choose not to.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 07, 2023, 10:33:39 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 07, 2023, 10:31:12 AM

Will she come directly home? I really hope that answer is yes.

Tough question. She is not scheduled to fly back until the 17th. But her girlfriend, person she’s traveling with, lives in Tel Aviv, and that’s where they would need to get to. Hard to tell right now if travel, there is safe, especially having to drive by bus or taxi through the southern part of Israel, where it’s wide-open spaces and not very well policed by the Israeli army, or the is Isreali police. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 07, 2023, 10:33:44 AM

I've told the story about my most critical situation before and how my mind was mushed, but my training saved me, it has to be automatic, not something you can think your way through.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 07, 2023, 10:33:48 AM

There is no open carry in Florida. Only concealed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 07, 2023, 10:34:47 AM

We were fortunate to be in Israel when things were "calm".  I realize of course that was not guaranteed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 07, 2023, 10:36:56 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 07, 2023, 10:33:44 AM

I've told the story about my most critical situation before and how my mind was mushed, but my training saved me, it has to be automatic, not something you can think your way through.

Very accurate.  I can honestly tell you that in both cases where I was robbed by a person with a weapon I surprise myself by how calm I remained. 
I am confident in saying that in either case, had I’ve been carrying a concealed weapon, I will have chosen not to use it. I think it’s because I got the definite feeling the person robbing me wanted money and jewelry more than they wanted to hurt me.  Who knows though.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2023, 10:41:35 AM

I'd be trying to keep the robber calm and not doing anything stupid.

"Alright, hold on, I'll give you want you want, just give me a second..."

They're the desperate person in the exchange.  They're in a bad situation and taking a huge risk.  They're on edge, so me acting similarly would only make things worse.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 07, 2023, 10:55:40 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2023, 10:31:33 AM

I'm guessing those are nice inside, too, and would remain when purchased.

Mar-a-Lago is likely very dated and probably tacky as shit and would be gutted or demolished by someone spending that much money.  That knocks down the value considerably if that's the general consensus of the property. 
That ignores the fact that it's Trump's, and may be kept intact due to his being a past president, etc. 

Some of is but it's not all the same throughout. We only see that main room that is all gold.

Regardless, it's the dirt that has the value. 20 acres in that spot is about $700,000,000 by itself. And if someone could buy that, they could afford to get rid of the tacky.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 07, 2023, 11:23:26 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 07, 2023, 10:25:00 AM

I just did some looking, and yeah, you're close to being right about the Billion thing.

This is just down the road. Probably won't get $150 Million, but more like $75 Million - $32.9 Million per acre.

(https://i.imgur.com/1lgBKWR.png)

This one is just up the road and not on any water.


(https://i.imgur.com/qi5N7tA.png)

I know I'm right lol. I'm in the biz as they say, I've done work on the island and I live in the area. Palm Beach island is the most exclusive real estate enclave in the entire US. It makes Bel Air or Beverly Hills look like poor crack house neighborhoods. The money on that island is inconceivable.

And that lot will probably get north of $100+ mil.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 07, 2023, 11:33:09 AM

Yep, I'm in the biz too, as you probably know.

Much of our work comes from developers - from Lennar to the custom guys.

Mar-a-Lago is easily worth a half bil.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 07, 2023, 11:34:36 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2023, 10:31:33 AM

I'm guessing those are nice inside, too, and would remain when purchased.

Mar-a-Lago is likely very dated and probably tacky as shit and would be gutted or demolished by someone spending that much money.  That knocks down the value considerably if that's the general consensus of the property. 
That ignores the fact that it's Trump's, and may be kept intact due to his being a past president, etc. 

Lol. Nah. Mar-A-Lago is THE trophy property on THE most exclusive real estate enclave in the entire country. The value is in the dirt, not the existing 64,000 sq ft home. And that home is actually the style in Palm Beach. The home has crazy history behind it as well, it was the brainchild of Post food heiress and was actually donated to the US gov't after her death and was used as a "winter white house" by US Presidents until the federal gov't returned it to the Post estate in the 80s and Trump was able to buy it from said estate for basically peanuts.

Trump sold a 90,000 sq ft home on like 2 acres on the ocean back in the mid 2000s for $90 million. The guy who bought that house tore it down and re-entitled the land and broke the 2 acres into 4 single family lots and sold each one of the lots for over $35 million. One of the lots was purchased by an heir to the Pulte fortune and homie built a 11,000 sq ft house on about 1/3rd acre which he sold for around $125 million a couple years ago.

Wall Street titan Ken Griffin has been acquiring single family homes over the last 10 years on Palm Beach island and has spent about $500 million just buying homes to tear down and do assemblage to build himself a massive private estate on Palm Beach island.

Mar-A-Lago is worth close to $1 billion. EASILY. The idea that the true market value = the county property appraiser tax assessment is completely and utterly asinine. In fact it's not even asinine....as Stephen A Smith would say....it's ASS-A-TEN.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 07, 2023, 11:35:27 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 07, 2023, 11:33:09 AM

Yep, I'm in the biz too, as you probably know.

Much of our work comes from developers - from Lennar to the custom guys.

Mar-a-Lago is easily worth a half bil.

that's a bare bones minimum. if it went for sale- who knows what it could fetch. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 07, 2023, 12:50:51 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 07, 2023, 11:34:36 AM

Lol. Nah. Mar-A-Lago is THE trophy property on THE most exclusive real estate enclave in the entire country. The value is in the dirt, not the existing 64,000 sq ft home. 

Art of the deal man signed a deed preventing it from being developed or used for anything but as a social club. So whoever buys it must really like the home 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 07, 2023, 01:56:40 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 07, 2023, 12:50:51 PM

Art of the deal man signed a deed preventing it from being developed or used for anything but as a social club. So whoever buys it must really like the home

YAWN. that is virtually meaningless in the scheme of things and irrelevant to the topic at hand- the value of the dirt. the deed restrictions could be removed rather easily by any random billionaires all-star legal team.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 07, 2023, 02:28:59 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 07, 2023, 01:56:40 PM

YAWN. that is virtually meaningless in the scheme of things and irrelevant to the topic at hand- the value of the dirt. the deed restrictions could be removed rather easily by any random billionaires all-star legal team.

Lol, it's very relevant, because the dirt presently cannot be legally developed for anything beyond what it is already being used for. Though Trump did try that exact argument, which is probably a sign you shouldn't pick your lawyers because you think they are hot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 07, 2023, 02:42:28 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 07, 2023, 02:28:59 PM

Lol, it's very relevant, because the dirt presently cannot be legally developed for anything beyond what it is already being used for. Though Trump did try that exact argument, which is probably a sign you shouldn't pick your lawyers because you think they are hot.

Yeah, no. It’s not. Trust me. Stick to your lane. I know what I’m talking about here. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 07, 2023, 02:45:18 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 07, 2023, 02:42:28 PM

Yeah, no. It’s not. Trust me. Stick to your lane. I know what I’m talking about here.

In the context of whether the property could ultimately be sold for whatever, sure. In the context of Trump's legal defense, no, not even close.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 07, 2023, 05:03:24 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 07, 2023, 02:28:59 PM

which is probably a sign you shouldn't pick your lawyers because you think they are hot.

So the ugly attorney's are the best? Then we have a Dream Team here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 07, 2023, 06:33:22 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 07, 2023, 05:03:24 PM

So the ugly attorney's are the best? Then we have a Dream Team here

Goddamn right

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 07, 2023, 06:39:59 PM

Nice guys like me need real bastards for attorneys. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 07, 2023, 08:29:20 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on October 07, 2023, 02:45:18 PM

In the context of whether the property could ultimately be sold for whatever, sure. In the context of Trump's legal defense, no, not even close.

"The walls are closing in."

Ss said in 2016.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2023, 10:35:27 PM

Hamas must really hate its own people.

After today, Israel is going to erase Gaza and break it off into the sea.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on October 07, 2023, 10:39:06 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2023, 10:35:27 PM

Hamas must really hate its own people.

After today, Israel is going to erase Gaza and break it off into the sea. 

Eh, the foreign money was for a very specific purpose.  The people who will feel the retaliation aren't part of the decision making process.  And those who took the money will be long gone

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2023, 10:41:07 PM

I know, but they have to retaliate and they have the firepower (thanks to us) to visit back damage 10-fold.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on October 07, 2023, 10:46:11 PM

Sure, but that's the point.  Take these missiles, money and visas, and be far away when the retaliation and diverted aid come in

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2023, 11:05:43 PM

That's why I said they hate their own people.  They'll be the ones dying.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 08, 2023, 07:44:46 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2023, 11:05:43 PM

That's why I said they hate their own people.  They'll be the ones dying. 

You need to understand how those people think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2023, 07:46:28 AM

I don't understand how most people think.  I'm not even sure how I think.

I bet we all agree the "leaders" don't suffer, generally speaking, while the people do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 08, 2023, 07:54:23 AM

Cost of Living Comparision

Numbeo is the world’s most considerable cost of living database. Numbeo is also a crowd-sourced global database of quality of life information, including housing indicators, perceived crime rates, and healthcare quality, among many other statistics.

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/ (https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 08, 2023, 07:54:48 AM

FACT OF THE DAY:

Afghan poppy farmers have switched to solar power to run their irrigation systems. This has significantly increased the world's supply of heroin. Provided by FactRetriever.com

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 08, 2023, 07:59:40 AM

I blame the sun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 08, 2023, 09:28:25 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 08, 2023, 07:44:46 AM

You need to understand how those people think.

So it is pretty obvious that Hamas is funded by Iran. Nobody disputes that.  So is Hezbolah 

We ( USA) just gave a pile of money to Iran. Sadly- we seem to be funding both sides of it. 

in the meantime-civilian hostages have been taken and disbursed throughout Gaza ( a place already full of secret caves and tunnels).  So that complicates things For Israel.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2023, 09:46:05 AM

I read somewhere the ^ 6 billion we freed up for Iran is still in some Qatari bank, as yet untouched.  I doubt this is related to the Hamas thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 08, 2023, 09:48:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 08, 2023, 09:46:05 AM

I read somewhere the ^ 6 billion we freed up for Iran is still in some Qatari bank, as yet untouched.  I doubt this is related to the Hamas thing.

No. Not directly.   Nobody thinks that.  This attack was well planned for some time.  

That’s not the point.  

before we agreed to give them the 6 billion for the five hostages, we declared that it can’t be used to find terrorism.   But once the transfer took place, the ayatollah came right out in public and said “I use the money, however, I want to”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2023, 09:52:20 AM

Sure, money is fungible anyway, Iran would replace $6 billion they now spend on "hospitals" and move that to military spending, it's easy.  But IF the money hasn't yet been touched, it's not a factor in the Hamas thing.  I don't think the two things are related, except as a political football.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 08, 2023, 09:56:38 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 08, 2023, 09:52:20 AM

Sure, money is fungible anyway, Iran would replace $6 billion they now spend on "hospitals" and move that to military spending, it's easy.  But IF the money hasn't yet been touched, it's not a factor in the Hamas thing.  I don't think the two things are related, except as a political football.

Nobody has said it was. 

But it doesn’t change the FACT that Hamas has been well funded and armed by Iran for years.  That is not disputed by any authoritative or credible person. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 08, 2023, 09:57:34 AM

https://twitter.com/MeidasTouch/status/1710741316643049860?t=5IMuPTRmH90U-WCIjO2lcA&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 08, 2023, 10:01:16 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on October 08, 2023, 09:57:34 AM

https://twitter.com/MeidasTouch/status/1710741316643049860?t=5IMuPTRmH90U-WCIjO2lcA&s=19

Like I said NOBODY of credibility has said that this $6B that was indeed “ unfroze”  was used for this attack.  Why are you guys do hung up on that?  

Now- back to the conversation.  Hamas ( and Hezbolah) are funded and armed by Iran, and everyone knows that. The intelligence community, Dems, Republicans- hell even Iran. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2023, 10:02:04 AM

The Republican field is blaming Joe Biden for dealing with Iran after Hamas' attack on Israel - ABC News (go.com) (https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/republican-field-blaming-joe-biden-dealing-iran-after-103811261)

Obviously, it's a political talking point.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2023, 10:03:21 AM

And it "sounds good", Biden "gives" $6 billion to Iran who funds Hamas who then attacked Israel.  And a lot of folks believe this is directly related.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 08, 2023, 10:04:47 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 08, 2023, 10:02:04 AM

The Republican field is blaming Joe Biden for dealing with Iran after Hamas' attack on Israel - ABC News (go.com) (https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/republican-field-blaming-joe-biden-dealing-iran-after-103811261)

Obviously, it's a political talking point.

I said nobody of credibility lol.   

It has nothing to do with Biden.  Hell- it was under Bush that Gaza was turned over to Hamas. 

This goes way back. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 08, 2023, 10:14:07 AM

I just watched Mike Pence on CNN

He said nothing of the kind.  Never blamed it on anyone here. Just talked about what we need to do to support Israel effort to get hostages back. 

The idiot Trump is the one who said it was US taxpayers money.  Idiot. 

DeSantis just blamed it on soft policies- very debatable but not an reasonable opinion 

DeSantis, in a video statement, accused Biden of “policies that have gone easy on Iran” and have “helped to fill their coffers. Israel is now paying the price for those policies. We’re going to stand with the State of Israel, they need to root out Hamas and we need to stand up to Iran.”

I was trying to keep this conversation non political.  Saying Iran funds Hamas and has for years is not political- it is established fact. 

Cinci- you and Gopher turned it political. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2023, 10:16:41 AM

I turn everything political.

Just trying to get some facts straight.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 08, 2023, 10:19:37 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 08, 2023, 10:16:41 AM

I turn everything political.

Just trying to get some facts straight.

😂😂

my girl is there.   It is nerve racking for me- but not political.   She just finished a bus ride from Egypt/ through southern Israel, ( very near the fighting) and into Tel Aviv.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2023, 10:22:34 AM

I mentioned that to my wife at breakfast today, noting we were fortunate to be there when things were calm.

I never was nervous about anything, but I knew the situation could get volatile.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 08, 2023, 10:29:43 AM

Ticking time bomb. We'll never go there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 08, 2023, 10:34:15 AM

By definition, anything relating to government is political. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2023, 10:38:06 AM

My wife really wanted to go, and I found it interesting in parts.  After seeing Egypt and Jordan in long bus rides, the difference in Israel is striking in terms of infrastructure.

I assessed the risk as low, at the time, but not negligible.  We also sailed through the Straits of Hormuz and around that pirate region off Yemen, the boat captain announced we were entering a pirate area.  They have a radar repeating station where one can view the bridge, and someone pointed to a ship off the horizon they said was a French frigate about 25 miles away.  It would be tough to take on a cruise liner of that size doing 20 knots.

We're leaving Tuesday for another cruise, this time around Great Britain, so I suppose the risk is much lower though we have a stop in Belfast.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2023, 10:39:37 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on October 08, 2023, 10:34:15 AM

By definition, anything relating to government is political.

I think there are aspects of our government that are close to apolitical, take the Patent and Trademark Office for example.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 08, 2023, 10:45:59 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on October 08, 2023, 10:34:15 AM

By definition, anything relating to government is political.

It shouldn't be.

Government makes policy, which should not be political either.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 08, 2023, 11:31:39 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 08, 2023, 10:29:43 AM

Ticking time bomb. We'll never go there.

Missing out, my friend.

I remember fondly being there in HS. We had a weekend with the family of a friend of a friend. The trip had been more cavalier than most, considering we were only a few years into the Second Intifada, but we still weren't going to public gatherings, obviously. 

The host family was going to a big street fair in Jerusalem. Valuable lesson in living. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 08, 2023, 11:35:20 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 08, 2023, 09:48:14 AM

No. Not directly.  Nobody thinks that.  This attack was well planned for some time. 

That’s not the point. 

before we agreed to give them the 6 billion for the five hostages, we declared that it can’t be used to find terrorism.  But once the transfer took place, the ayatollah came right out in public and said “I use the money, however, I want to”

I think this is a bit of misdirecting attention. 

The $6 billion is the political point it is, but the link is tenuous. Iran may fund Hamas, but the coordination and hierarchy isn't exactly there. 

The blood feud goes back decades. Our timing with their ally is at best a footnote. (Ironically, the only way that peace tends to settle is when we bribe someone to settle the F down, but that's another matter)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 08, 2023, 11:46:43 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 08, 2023, 11:35:20 AM

I think this is a bit of misdirecting attention.

The $6 billion is the political point it is, but the link is tenuous. Iran may fund Hamas, but the coordination and hierarchy isn't exactly there.

The blood feud goes back decades. Our timing with their ally is at best a footnote. (Ironically, the only way that peace tends to settle is when we bribe someone to settle the F down, but that's another matter)

No.  You are precisely misdirecting the conversation that was going on.

I’ll say this again so maybe you’ll understand at this time  Take your conversation about the $6 billion to a new thread or start a new conversation. That’s not what I’m talking about nor was I ever talking about that. 

Fro and others were correctly discussing how we help arm and fund Israel- who is likely about to drill Hamas. 

I simply pointed out that Hamas has been funded by Iran for years, and that is not in dispute by anyone of any authoritative credibility.

Thats the conversation. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 08, 2023, 11:47:42 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 08, 2023, 11:35:20 AM

I think this is a bit of misdirecting attention.

The $6 billion is the political point it is, but the link is tenuous. Iran may fund Hamas, but the coordination and hierarchy isn't exactly there.

The blood feud goes back decades. Our timing with their ally is at best a footnote. (Ironically, the only way that peace tends to settle is when we bribe someone to settle the F down, but that's another matter)

Or we just stay out of it.

Or commit to it - for real.

The peace with the Saudis could have led to so much more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 08, 2023, 12:10:09 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 08, 2023, 11:46:43 AM

No.  You are precisely misdirecting the conversation that was going on.

I’ll say this again so maybe you’ll understand at this time  Take your conversation about the $6 billion to a new thread or start a new conversation. That’s not what I’m talking about nor was I ever talking about that. 

Fro and others were correctly discussing how we help arm and fund Israel- who is likely about to drill Hamas. 

I simply pointed out that Hamas has been funded by Iran for years, and that is not in dispute by anyone of any authoritative credibility.

Thats the conversation. 

It sounds like you're saying weren’t trying to use that as a reference to our current politics or leadership, and I guess I misread it. Sorry bout that.

I assure you, I’m not trying to tie anything we did with Iran to this at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2023, 03:16:33 PM

The Biden administration has said that Iran has pledged to only use the funds for humanitarian purposes, but Iranian leaders have said they would decide what was best for their people. Secretary of State Antony Blinken  (https://thehill.com/people/antony-blinken/)on Sunday said those funds remain unspent in a frozen account in the weeks after the prisoner exchange was conducted.

“President Joe Biden’s  (https://thehill.com/people/joe-biden/)kowtowing for the last two and a half years to the mullahs in Iran, lifting sanctions, begging them to get back in the Iran nuclear deal, and then paying $6 billion in a ransom for hostages, I think, set the conditions for this unprecedented terrorist attack by Hamas against Israel,” Pence said.

But the Biden administration has maintained unwavering support for Israel in the wake of an attack by Hamas on Saturday that took Israel by surprise. The prisoner exchange freed Americans who had been jailed in Iran under harsh conditions for years.
Still, Pence laid heavy criticism on the White House.

“There’s no question in my mind that Iran is behind, has subsidized, has approved and in the last day has even applauded this extraordinary terrorist attack by Hamas against Israel,” he said.

U.S. officials said Sunday they could not yet determine if Iran was behind the attack.

Pence also criticized the foreign policy positions of some of his fellow GOP presidential candidates, including former President Trump, biotech entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy  (https://thehill.com/people/vivek-ramaswamy/)and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis.

“But I also believe this is what happens when we have leading voices like Donald Trump, (https://thehill.com/people/donald-trump/) Vivek Ramaswamy and Ron DeSantis signaling retreat from America’s role as leader of the free world. Look, what happened in Ukraine was an unprovoked invasion by Russia. What happened this weekend was an unprovoked invasion by Hamas into Israel,” Pence continued in the interview.
“And I really believe now more than ever, both the debate within the Republican Party and the debate within America is whether or not we’re going to once again stand without apology as the leader of the free world, as the arsenal of democracy,” he continued.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 08, 2023, 03:39:44 PM

Cincy, that formatting is a nightmare 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 08, 2023, 04:25:24 PM

Democracy?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2023, 04:35:03 PM

Any time something bad happens, there is a rush to cast blame to the other side.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 08, 2023, 07:06:14 PM

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/hamas-hezbollah-say-iran-helped-plan-deadly-attack-on-israel-report/ar-AA1hToj1

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on October 08, 2023, 07:50:24 PM

I learned something new today.  We tried something new in our garden this year:  sweet potatoes.
We planted 6 sweet potato plants in our raised garden, expecting 6 sweet potatoes.

Turns out, one sweet potato plant, when located in nice watered, loose soil can produce multiple tubers per plant.  Apparently, even 10 per plant.

Weve got 60 usable potatoes.  Roughly 40 pounds.

I'm going to start looking at recipes because we are going to be eating sweet potatoes for the next three months.....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on October 08, 2023, 07:51:26 PM

I blame the British for this giant shitshow with Israel vs. Palestine that has been going on for nearly 80 years.

I say if they can’t figure this shit out like civilized people we just turn the entire former British territory of Mandatory Palestine into a fcking parking lot and make it uninhabitable for anyone. 

I am so over it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 08, 2023, 08:31:27 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on October 08, 2023, 07:51:26 PM

I blame the British for this giant shitshow with Israel vs. Palestine that has been going on for nearly 80 years.

The shit they pulled led to the 2nd WW that is a fact. MFers dished more crap out than anyone and when it came crashing back on them they scream help like somehow their aristocracy deserved sympathy or favor

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 08, 2023, 09:30:24 PM

Quote from: grillrat on October 08, 2023, 07:50:24 PM

I'm going to start looking at recipes because we are going to be eating sweet potatoes for the next three months.....

Wife's recipe. 1/2 in dice, along with slightly finer chopped onion, some minced garlic, olive oil, S&P. Roast on a baking sheet at 400 until tender. 

Great side dish for all sorts of things. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 08, 2023, 10:03:40 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 08, 2023, 09:30:24 PM

Wife's recipe. 1/2 in dice, along with slightly finer chopped onion, some minced garlic, olive oil, S&P. Roast on a baking sheet at 400 until tender.

Great side dish for all sorts of things.

Yeah I do this but also add in all kinds of other fall vegetables and root vegetables.  Carrots, parsnips, butternut squash.  You can halve Brussels sprouts and throw them in, too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 09, 2023, 06:58:03 AM

$6B in frozen Iranian funds remain unspent in wake of Hamas attack, Blinken says | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/international/4244543-6b-in-frozen-iranian-funds-remain-unspent-in-wake-of-hamas-attack-blinken-says/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 09, 2023, 06:59:21 AM

I like sweet potatoes and wonder why we don't have them more often.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 09, 2023, 08:38:34 AM

I order sweet tater fries often as opposed to reg french fried taters

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 09, 2023, 08:46:08 AM

Sweets are only good in certain ways. On their own I cannot eat them. Too sweet.

I'll post a recipe in the proper thread, that I adapted from a Bobby Flay version.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 09, 2023, 08:47:44 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 08, 2023, 07:06:14 PM

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/hamas-hezbollah-say-iran-helped-plan-deadly-attack-on-israel-report/ar-AA1hToj1

Did your wife get out?


Major US airlines suspend flights to Israel after massive attack by Hamas ignites heavy fighting (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/major-airlines-suspend-flights-to-israel-after-massive-attack-by-hamas-ignites-heavy-fighting/ar-AA1hV9Il?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=423470a973d94e80af629e6bd49bec2c&ei=9)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 09, 2023, 08:50:20 AM

I don’t know why, I really never liked sweet potatoes. Granted I don’t totally like potatoes that much, and sweet potatoes always tasted like a diet dessert to me. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 09, 2023, 08:52:12 AM

salt & pepper to taste

you can overpower the sweet

also, many recipes add sugar, some by melting marshmallows on them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 09, 2023, 08:53:12 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 09, 2023, 08:52:12 AM

salt & pepper to taste

you can overpower the sweet

also, many recipes add sugar, some by melting marshmallows on them

Gross.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 09, 2023, 08:55:48 AM

yup, sweet tater fries at most places aren't too sweet

just don't dip them in sugar, like ketchup or something

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 09, 2023, 09:37:02 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 09, 2023, 08:38:34 AM

I order sweet tater fries often as opposed to reg french fried taters

My wife does as well, I find them usually soggy.  I try and get a side other than fries anyway if possible.  The Korean place has mac and cheese with kimchi and bacon which is killer good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 09, 2023, 09:55:18 AM

Sweet potato pie is delicious, a Fall staple of course.

At Thanksgiving we always have the following: sweet potato pie, pumpkin pie, pecan pie, apple pie.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 09, 2023, 10:01:55 AM

America is now paying more in interest on its record $33 trillion debt than on national defense — here's who holds the IOUs (yahoo.com) (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/america-now-paying-more-interest-113000593.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 09, 2023, 10:09:27 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 09, 2023, 09:55:18 AM

Sweet potato pie is delicious, a Fall staple of course.

At Thanksgiving we always have the following: sweet potato pie, pumpkin pie, pecan pie, apple pie.

Served with a side of turkey?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 09, 2023, 10:23:43 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 09, 2023, 10:09:27 AM

Served with a side of turkey?

But of course.  Two side turkeys in fact-- one smoked, and one deep-fried!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 09, 2023, 10:25:02 AM

We're thinking of doing Steaksgiving this year instead of making a turkey. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 09, 2023, 10:28:00 AM

The past two years we bought a half turkey breast from Costco with all the sides for not that much, it was easy and quick and "cheap", maybe $22 or so.  Limits the leftover problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on October 09, 2023, 10:31:12 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 09, 2023, 10:28:00 AM

The past two years we bought a half turkey breast from Costco with all the sides for not that much, it was easy and quick and "cheap", maybe $22 or so.  Limits the leftover problem.

You and I have very different definitions of problem

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on October 09, 2023, 10:34:25 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 09, 2023, 10:28:00 AM

The past two years we bought a half turkey breast from Costco with all the sides for not that much, it was easy and quick and "cheap", maybe $22 or so.  Limits the leftover problem.

The past couple of years it's just been the wife, my two boys, and myself for Thanksgiving, so we've been going with 2 Cornish game hens.  Essentially mini turkeys, but they still have the cavity for adding stuffing.

For the sweet potatoes, we've been doing the roasted root veggies thing for a while now (usually with sweet potatoes, beets, red potatoes, carrots, and parsnips.  Seasoned with salt, garlic, rosemary, and a little paprika).  We've also done sweet potato fries in the air fryer.

I'm just going to need to find different ways to do it so I don't get sick of them.  Sweet potato pie is an option.  My aunt also apparently has a recipe for quiche that uses sweet potatoes for the pie crust.

(https://i.imgur.com/HPoCLID.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 09, 2023, 10:46:07 AM

We know you all wanted this… Limited Edition Pumpkin Spice Malört is now available! 🎃 This Malört is available ONLY at @chbarandtable at 564 W Randolph St, Chicago, IL. The shot will cost $7 with all proceeds being donated to @Punkrocksaveslives , a catalyst at events for the punk rock community.
Pumpkin Spice Malört shots are available now through the end of October, or until supply runs out.

CH Bar and Table is open Tuesday - Saturday at 564 W Randolph St.


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/386147999_18387753622045142_6105081286233208541_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=49d041&_nc_ohc=9YJOE1u6E9gAX-k9VDN&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCyAao5OG0CngeGB8LS2_WBLZlFRZHeZNrl9R2E61b5IA&oe=6529C0C8)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on October 09, 2023, 10:46:41 AM

Also, as a quick add-on.  As can be seen from the picture, I've got some hot peppers in the bottom left corner.

Turns out, we are victims of "pepper-gate".

Those were supposed to be bell peppers, but there apparently was a huge mix up at a factory this year and there were thousands of seed packets that went out mislabeled.  I have absolutely no clue for sure what those are.  They are a little big for cayenne or hatch peppers.  I'm thinking Fresno maybe.  They ARE hot though, I know that for sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 09, 2023, 11:55:48 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 09, 2023, 10:46:07 AM

We know you all wanted this… Limited Edition Pumpkin Spice Malört is now available! 🎃 This Malört is available ONLY at @chbarandtable at 564 W Randolph St, Chicago, IL. The shot will cost $7 with all proceeds being donated to @Punkrocksaveslives , a catalyst at events for the punk rock community.
Pumpkin Spice Malört shots are available now through the end of October, or until supply runs out.

CH Bar and Table is open Tuesday - Saturday at 564 W Randolph St.


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/386147999_18387753622045142_6105081286233208541_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=49d041&_nc_ohc=9YJOE1u6E9gAX-k9VDN&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCyAao5OG0CngeGB8LS2_WBLZlFRZHeZNrl9R2E61b5IA&oe=6529C0C8)

This is vile and beautiful and I love it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 09, 2023, 11:56:54 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 09, 2023, 10:25:02 AM

We're thinking of doing Steaksgiving this year instead of making a turkey.

My kids would kill me.  They ask for turkey all the time.  It's simple enough to smoke one, honestly I should do it more often.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 09, 2023, 11:59:08 AM

Israeli counteroffensive against Hamas ‘just getting started’: Netanyahu | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/international/4245646-israeli-counteroffensive-against-hamas-just-getting-started-netanyahu/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 09, 2023, 12:03:27 PM

Quote from: grillrat on October 09, 2023, 10:46:41 AM

I have absolutely no clue for sure what those are.  They are a little big for cayenne or hatch peppers.  I'm thinking Fresno maybe.  They ARE hot though, I know that for sure.

Put one on with your Jeppson's Malort.
Like a slice of lime with shitty Mexican Beer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 09, 2023, 12:09:50 PM

Quote from: utee94 on October 09, 2023, 11:56:54 AM

My kids would kill me.  They ask for turkey all the time.  It's simple enough to smoke one, honestly I should do it more often.

Honestly I've never cared for turkey. But although my wife has a poultry allergy, she's always insisted on making turkey for traditional reasons. While I've grilled her a filet every Thanksgiving anyway. 

I think given that she's cooked one I think 7 years running and it's always been excellent, she knows she has nothing left to prove and I'd rather eat steak anyway. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 09, 2023, 12:12:52 PM

I like turkey if not dry.  You'd think the turkey lobby would be on it encouraging us to eat it more often.

We all have chicken pretty often.  We eat turkey sandwiches.  But not turkey, it's what for dinner.

I'm not a big fan of stuffing while I'm stuffing myself.

I like a crisp white wine with it all, or perhaps a lighter pinot noir.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 09, 2023, 12:13:58 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 09, 2023, 11:59:08 AM

Israeli counteroffensive against Hamas ‘just getting started’: Netanyahu | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/international/4245646-israeli-counteroffensive-against-hamas-just-getting-started-netanyahu/)

U.S. sends aircraft carrier group to eastern Mediterranean (winknews.com)

 (https://winknews.com/2023/10/08/u-s-sends-aircraft-carrier-group-to-eastern-mediterranean-in-response-to-hamas-attack-on-israel/)Great.

"Austin also announced steps to augment U.S. Air Force fighter aircraft squadrons in the region. USAF aircraft are going into bases in the Middle East where they will be available for operations against Iran. "

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 09, 2023, 12:28:17 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 09, 2023, 12:12:52 PM

I like turkey if not dry. 

The biggest thing I've noticed is that properly cooked turkey breast is very moist and succulent if it goes onto your plate IMMEDIATELY after you slice it. If someone slices the turkey, and then it gets put out onto a platter, and then 15+ minutes go by while the family all gets seated, and then you FINALLY get it on your plate to eat... It's dried out. And what do you think usually happens in most houses on Thanksgiving? So you gotta douse it in gravy. 

In this way it's a lot like brisket. If you slice a brisket and then it sits a while before it gets eaten, it can go from the most moist and decadent BBQ meat in existence, worth eating without any additional liquid, to dry and requiring BBQ sauce to hydrate it in a VERY short time. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 09, 2023, 12:31:57 PM

Our oven has a T probe that is quite effective I find.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 09, 2023, 12:32:59 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 09, 2023, 10:25:02 AM

We're thinking of doing Steaksgiving this year instead of making a turkey.

I've done this a few times.
My daughters love steak and when they are scheduled to have turkey at 2 or 3 other meals with grandparents and friends, they appreciate a nice steak instead of the 4th meal of turkey at the holiday

I've also done this at Xmas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 09, 2023, 12:58:50 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 09, 2023, 12:32:59 PM

I've done this a few times.
My daughters love steak and when they are scheduled to have turkey at 2 or 3 other meals with grandparents and friends, they appreciate a nice steak instead of the 4th meal of turkey at the holiday

I've also done this at Xmas

We do all kinds of different stuff at Christmas.  Enchiladas, tamales, standing rib roast, pork tenderloin, beef tenderloin.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 09, 2023, 01:01:01 PM

Quote from: utee94 on October 09, 2023, 12:58:50 PM

We do all kinds of different stuff at Christmas.  Enchiladas, tamales, standing rib roast, pork tenderloin, beef tenderloin. 

I might come over ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 09, 2023, 01:03:07 PM

just don't move there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 09, 2023, 01:21:00 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 09, 2023, 12:28:17 PM

The biggest thing I've noticed is that properly cooked turkey breast is very moist and succulent if it goes onto your plate IMMEDIATELY after you slice it. If someone slices the turkey, and then it gets put out onto a platter, and then 15+ minutes go by while the family all gets seated, and then you FINALLY get it on your plate to eat... It's dried out. And what do you think usually happens in most houses on Thanksgiving? So you gotta douse it in gravy.

In this way it's a lot like brisket. If you slice a brisket and then it sits a while before it gets eaten, it can go from the most moist and decadent BBQ meat in existence, worth eating without any additional liquid, to dry and requiring BBQ sauce to hydrate it in a VERY short time.

Alton Brown has a remedy for this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 09, 2023, 02:25:19 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 09, 2023, 01:21:00 PM

Alton Brown has a remedy for this.

Brining? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 09, 2023, 02:32:54 PM

Ribbon-cutting set for key new Atlanta BeltLine section | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/ribbon-cutting-new-atl-beltline-section-northeast-trail)

This was based on a master's thesis by a Tech guy oddly named Ryan Gravel.  It's getting there, this is very close to us, less than a mile.  Take old RR rights of way and make a pedestrian and bike path, it has been hugely impactful, heavy development wherever it goes, 22 miles all the way around.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 09, 2023, 02:33:27 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 09, 2023, 02:25:19 PM

Brining?

Good Eats Roast Thanksgiving Turkey Recipe | Alton Brown (https://altonbrown.com/recipes/good-eats-roast-thanksgiving-turkey/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 09, 2023, 02:48:15 PM

the turkey roasting recipe I always use

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 09, 2023, 02:51:40 PM

I still don't think brining (which I've done) solves the issue that once that meat is sliced and sitting out on a platter, it starts drying out quickly... 

I certainly think it's an improvement over not brining. And agree with Alton that you need a good probe and to pull it at 155, not 160, as you'll get carryover and it'll be safe if you pull at 155. And DEFINITELY not to go on time or those cheap-ass pop-up thermos... Going too high on temp is always going to kill it no matter whether you brine or not, and I think overcooked is the norm for too many kitchens...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 09, 2023, 03:00:09 PM

especially with birds and pork

folks are leery

I have been eating underdone (Rare/ med rare) pork and fowl for decades

much better than well done 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 09, 2023, 04:47:34 PM

I don't really cook or eat underdone fowl, not by more than 5 degrees or so anyway.

But things like pork chops and pork tenderloin I cook well below the old-school recommendations.  I'll pull at 135 and let it carryover to 140.  And it is FAR superior to anything cooked even 5-8 degrees more.  And 160?  Forget it, there's zero moisture left.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 09, 2023, 05:24:52 PM

Well-cooked turkey might be my favorite meat.  I know that sounds crazy, but I'm afraid it's true.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 09, 2023, 05:29:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 09, 2023, 12:12:52 PM

I like turkey if not dry.  You'd think the turkey lobby would be on it encouraging us to eat it more often.

We all have chicken pretty often.  We eat turkey sandwiches.  But not turkey, it's what for dinner.

The turkey lobby is weak.  
They SHOULD be advocating for buying whole turkeys year-round, but have settled for being bloated and sliced and simple sandwich meat.
They should go the whole roasted chicken route you can get at any grocery store for like $7.00.  Have a family of 6?  That chicken won't do!  Get a $10.00 turkey instead, and feed everyone and then some!  

Plus they don't have the egg lobby to attach to like the chicken lobby does.  The egg lobby does the thumb-breaking for the chicken lobby.  The turkey lobby has no such threat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 09, 2023, 05:30:31 PM

Quote from: utee94 on October 09, 2023, 04:47:34 PM

I don't really cook or eat underdone fowl, not by more than 5 degrees or so anyway.

But things like pork chops and pork tenderloin I cook well below the old-school recommendations.  I'll pull at 135 and let it carryover to 140.  And it is FAR superior to anything cooked even 5-8 degrees more.  And 160?  Forget it, there's zero moisture left.

Duck can be (and generally is) eaten closer to rare. I wouldn't know that I'd trust that with either chicken or turkey. I might consider it if I do a sous vide prep where I can actually know it's safe though. You can hold chicken at 140 for ~30 minutes and you've killed any salmonella...

https://www.amazingfoodmadeeasy.com/info/sous-vide-safety/more/sous-vide-safety-salmonella-and-bacteria

But I'm not sure what sort of texture you'd get with chicken at that temp. It might be safe, but also disgusting...

Agree 100% on pork though. It's an old myth that it needs to be 160. I generally pull at 135 and let it come up the rest of the way as well. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 09, 2023, 05:38:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 09, 2023, 05:29:22 PM

They should go the whole roasted chicken route you can get at any grocery store for like $7.00.  Have a family of 6?  That chicken won't do!  Get a $10.00 turkey instead, and feed everyone and then some! 

Problem IMHO is that a whole turkey is a lot more difficult to deal with than a whole chicken...

• The drumstick has a whole bunch of stringy connective bits that are hard to eat around. Chicken drumstick has one piece of cartilage but that's it.
• The same is true of turkey wings. There's a lot more meat than chicken wings, but there's also a lot more inedible stuff in there. 
• Taking a chicken apart into wings/breast/thigh/drum when it's cooked is freakin' child's play. I'm not gonna call turkey "hard" by any means, but it's a bigger effort to be sure. 
• Turkey is going to take significantly longer to cook than chicken. In a two-parent household with four kids (who have homework, might have after-school activities, other BS, etc), do you want to commit to a multi-hour cook when you can do a whole chicken in an hour easy? 

For that family (and bear in mind I'm a family of 5 about 40% of the time, with a 16 yo son who basically makes that 6 from an appetite perspective) it's a lot easier to just buy two chickens. Spatchcock them, season them (10 minutes tops), toss them on the outdoor grill indirect or in the oven at 350-375 for about an hour, and you're good to go. 

When my wife (again, poultry allergy) has other plans, or when she and I decide we're going to cook something for ourselves we don't think the kids will eat (rare because we do that on the 60% of the time they're not here), throwing a spatchcock chicken on the grill is WAY easier than dealing with a turkey. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 09, 2023, 06:02:08 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 09, 2023, 05:30:31 PM

Duck can be (and generally is) eaten closer to rare. I wouldn't know that I'd trust that with either chicken or turkey. I might consider it if I do a sous vide prep where I can actually know it's safe though. You can hold chicken at 140 for ~30 minutes and you've killed any salmonella...

https://www.amazingfoodmadeeasy.com/info/sous-vide-safety/more/sous-vide-safety-salmonella-and-bacteria

But I'm not sure what sort of texture you'd get with chicken at that temp. It might be safe, but also disgusting...

Agree 100% on pork though. It's an old myth that it needs to be 160. I generally pull at 135 and let it come up the rest of the way as well.

Yes that's my problem with undercooked fowl, the texture is disgusting.

Duck is awesome and doesn't count, but there's no way I'm eating chicken or turkey that's not cooked to at least 155 or so.  Makes me wanna puke just thinking about it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 09, 2023, 06:06:00 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 09, 2023, 05:38:26 PM

Problem IMHO is that a whole turkey is a lot more difficult to deal with than a whole chicken...

• The drumstick has a whole bunch of stringy connective bits that are hard to eat around. Chicken drumstick has one piece of cartilage but that's it.
• The same is true of turkey wings. There's a lot more meat than chicken wings, but there's also a lot more inedible stuff in there.
• Taking a chicken apart into wings/breast/thigh/drum when it's cooked is freakin' child's play. I'm not gonna call turkey "hard" by any means, but it's a bigger effort to be sure.
• Turkey is going to take significantly longer to cook than chicken. In a two-parent household with four kids (who have homework, might have after-school activities, other BS, etc), do you want to commit to a multi-hour cook when you can do a whole chicken in an hour easy?

For that family (and bear in mind I'm a family of 5 about 40% of the time, with a 16 yo son who basically makes that 6 from an appetite perspective) it's a lot easier to just buy two chickens. Spatchcock them, season them (10 minutes tops), toss them on the outdoor grill indirect or in the oven at 350-375 for about an hour, and you're good to go.

When my wife (again, poultry allergy) has other plans, or when she and I decide we're going to cook something for ourselves we don't think the kids will eat (rare because we do that on the 60% of the time they're not here), throwing a spatchcock chicken on the grill is WAY easier than dealing with a turkey.

I believe he's talking about pre-cooked "rotisserie turkeys" in the same manner you find rotisserie chickens at your local grocery store. Some of the problems with prep and cooking that you mention still exist, but they're transferred to the professional kitchens which are better equipped to handle them at scale.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on October 09, 2023, 06:25:18 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 09, 2023, 05:30:31 PM

Duck can be (and generally is) eaten closer to rare. I wouldn't know that I'd trust that with either chicken or turkey. I might consider it if I do a sous vide prep where I can actually know it's safe though. You can hold chicken at 140 for ~30 minutes and you've killed any salmonella...

https://www.amazingfoodmadeeasy.com/info/sous-vide-safety/more/sous-vide-safety-salmonella-and-bacteria

But I'm not sure what sort of texture you'd get with chicken at that temp. It might be safe, but also disgusting...

Agree 100% on pork though. It's an old myth that it needs to be 160. I generally pull at 135 and let it come up the rest of the way as well.

Duck is one of those things I've made once, and was so nervous about how it should be cooked, that I wound up overcooking it.  I'll order it out sometimes, but I'll never make it again

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 09, 2023, 06:26:35 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 09, 2023, 05:29:22 PM

The turkey lobby is weak. 

Stop egging him on 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on October 09, 2023, 06:27:11 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 09, 2023, 05:38:26 PM

Problem IMHO is that a whole turkey is a lot more difficult to deal with than a whole chicken...

• The drumstick has a whole bunch of stringy connective bits that are hard to eat around. Chicken drumstick has one piece of cartilage but that's it.
• The same is true of turkey wings. There's a lot more meat than chicken wings, but there's also a lot more inedible stuff in there.
• Taking a chicken apart into wings/breast/thigh/drum when it's cooked is freakin' child's play. I'm not gonna call turkey "hard" by any means, but it's a bigger effort to be sure.
• Turkey is going to take significantly longer to cook than chicken. In a two-parent household with four kids (who have homework, might have after-school activities, other BS, etc), do you want to commit to a multi-hour cook when you can do a whole chicken in an hour easy?

For that family (and bear in mind I'm a family of 5 about 40% of the time, with a 16 yo son who basically makes that 6 from an appetite perspective) it's a lot easier to just buy two chickens. Spatchcock them, season them (10 minutes tops), toss them on the outdoor grill indirect or in the oven at 350-375 for about an hour, and you're good to go.

When my wife (again, poultry allergy) has other plans, or when she and I decide we're going to cook something for ourselves we don't think the kids will eat (rare because we do that on the 60% of the time they're not here), throwing a spatchcock chicken on the grill is WAY easier than dealing with a turkey.

And I think that's why it isn't made more often.  Anti-turkey folks always lean into the "why don't you make it more than once a year then?" argument.  Now, when we were younger, we did eat it more often.  Family of 6, with grandparents close by, and a stay at home mom.  That's a great dinner for 6-10 folks, if you have the time to do it right

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 09, 2023, 07:16:18 PM

Quote from: utee94 on October 09, 2023, 06:06:00 PM

I believe he's talking about pre-cooked "rotisserie turkeys" in the same manner you find rotisserie chickens at your local grocery store. Some of the problems with prep and cooking that you mention still exist, but they're transferred to the professional kitchens which are better equipped to handle them at scale.

Ahh, got it. I guess I didn't consider that as on a normal week, our O/U on home-cooked dinners is 6.5 lol...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 09, 2023, 09:19:10 PM

Minnesota is the #1 turkey producing state in the country. 

Gobble gobble, ya bastages.

https://youtu.be/Q9zvgcOrTtw?si=LTmla0a44m1w6u5R

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 09, 2023, 09:25:30 PM

how different can duck be from chicken?

and why aren't turkey eggs sold?

birds are birds

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 09, 2023, 10:24:38 PM

As ostrich egg could feed a Little League team...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 09, 2023, 10:32:06 PM

I've had Ostrich meat and egg

not great but not bad

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on October 09, 2023, 10:48:34 PM

Duck is my favorite protein.  Very easy to cook breast with the nice fat cap.   Definitely not past medium or it is ruined.   I keep it med rare.

Whole duck is a different cook.  Wife does not like smell of duck fat rendering.  

Usda can F off.   Pork trichinosis is exceptionally rare in US.  Pork is leaner these days.  I would never cook a chop or tenderloin to well.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 10, 2023, 08:09:18 AM

Documentary Heaven

A really interesting website boasting of a comprehensive collection of documentaries that you can watch for free.

https://documentaryheaven.com/ (https://documentaryheaven.com/)

Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE) is a debilitating neurodegenerative condition that primarily affects individuals who have experienced repeated head trauma, particularly athletes engaged in contact sports like American football, boxing, hockey, and soccer. CTE is characterized by the accumulation of abnormal proteins in the brain, leading to severe cognitive...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 10, 2023, 08:26:42 AM

Favorite protein is an interesting thought, I'd guess tofu is not going to get mentioned affirmatively.

Good smoked salmon would be near the top, for me.  Obviously a really good steak.  A lot of types CAN be good of course, really good BBQ is tough to beat as well.  I had ribs once that spoiled me.  Really good brisket, pulled pork, works for me.

Actual fresh fish cooked properly would be up the list but very hard to access these days, walleye, NP, mountain trout, yup, arctic char, ...  then scallops, probably my favorite seafood, king crab lags, not so much for lobster, really good Calabash style shrimp works for me, but tough to access of course.  Lamb and duck are common in France and usually excellent.

A bit of an oddity, I used to go bird hunting, dove mostly, they are really good if small. 

Of course, the universal favorite would be eggs, I have to think that so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2023, 08:44:49 AM

Stone crab claws.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 10, 2023, 08:52:31 AM

#1 - dry aged prime NY Strip med rare

BBQ would be a beef rib

pork would be thick cut smoked bacon or belly

fresh fish is good, but lacks some chew and flavor

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2023, 08:58:10 AM

You're eating the wrong fish.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 10, 2023, 09:03:56 AM

I think I'd go with any fish fresh caught over any frozen, we have great luck with the steelhead trout from Costco of the frozen type.

We had some terrific smoked fish up in the UP a while back, Marquette had a place.  Outstanding.  The hotel had a patio and dinner was smoked fish and crackers and a Sancere and a spot of cheese, which I also forgot to mention.

I like being an omnivore.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 10, 2023, 09:11:09 AM

I've had shark that had more chew

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2023, 09:19:58 AM

Try black grouper, triple tail, hogfish... Anything caught around here is fantastic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 10, 2023, 09:28:00 AM

oh, I'm sure it's fantastic

I'm less sure it's better than that dry aged steak

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2023, 09:33:57 AM

Ya know, these days I honestly prefer a great burger over a great steak.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 10, 2023, 09:35:13 AM

I prefer a great burger over a decent steak.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2023, 09:41:37 AM

There are some places around that use trimmings for their burgers. I'll order one with no bun and eat it like a steak. Love it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 10, 2023, 09:43:43 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2023, 09:41:37 AM

There are some places around that use trimmings for their burgers. I'll order one with no bun and eat it like a steak. Love it.

(https://i.imgur.com/19dRk0H.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2023, 09:44:53 AM

In a pinch, sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 10, 2023, 09:50:52 AM

man, I really enjoy a good burger, but...........

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 10, 2023, 09:54:38 AM

I like a good burger.  I like a good steak.

I love perfectly smoked brisket.  That is the Lord Emperor of all beef dishes.

But my favorite protein, or to put it differently if I could just have one protein the rest of my life-- is shrimp.  It's so versatile, can be cooked in so many ways, can hold so many different flavor profiles.  That's my #1.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2023, 09:59:44 AM

Steak is really expensive down here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2023, 10:00:30 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 10, 2023, 09:54:38 AM

I like a good burger.  I like a good steak.

I love perfectly smoked brisket.  That is the Lord Emperor of all beef dishes.

But my favorite protein, or to put it differently if I could just have one protein the rest of my life-- is shrimp.  It's so versatile, can be cooked in so many ways, can hold so many different flavor profiles.  That's my #1.

Plenty of that in the waters here. We eat it a lot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 10, 2023, 10:01:28 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 10, 2023, 09:54:38 AM

But my favorite protein, or to put it differently if I could just have one protein the rest of my life-- is shrimp.  It's so versatile, can be cooked in so many ways, can hold so many different flavor profiles.  That's my #1.

https://youtu.be/jXKSDtLFBEU?si=R1ow_An7bAI47mY2

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 10, 2023, 10:06:36 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2023, 09:59:44 AM

Steak is really expensive down here.

seafood is expensive here
especially fresh seafood

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 10, 2023, 10:16:07 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2023, 10:00:30 AM

Plenty of that in the waters here. We eat it a lot.

Yup, same here.  Lotsa scrimps, lotsa ersters, in the gulf.

When I was working at AMD I worked with a bratty, cocky young kid from San Francisco, who once told me that he wouldn't eat seafood in Texas because Texas is "landlocked."  He literally said that.  I just laughed at him and walked away.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2023, 10:21:32 AM

Wow.

Talk about ignorance.

I'd say Texas has more coastline than any other states besides Florida and California.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on October 10, 2023, 10:29:21 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2023, 10:21:32 AM

Wow.

Talk about ignorance.

I'd say Texas has more coastline than any other states besides Florida and California.

Umm, just for the record, you forgot the state that has more coastline than California and Florida combined.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on October 10, 2023, 10:29:32 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2023, 09:33:57 AM

Ya know, these days I honestly prefer a great burger over a great steak.

Yes definitely burger over steak and I prefer meat ground up and in some kind of sauce with cheese. Just never could get into a slab of meat, whatever kind it is. 

I think I would eat cardboard covered in sauce and cheese.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 10, 2023, 10:30:49 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2023, 10:21:32 AM

Wow.

Talk about ignorance.

I'd say Texas has more coastline than any other states besides Florida and California.

Yup.

He was a stereotypical coastal elite.  Born and raised in the Bay Area, went to one of those snooty private colleges on the east coast that rich people think are good but are really just a bought diploma.  He'd have been a perfect 80s teen movie popped-collar douchebag villain.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on October 10, 2023, 10:37:13 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 10, 2023, 10:30:49 AM

Yup.

He was a stereotypical coastal elite.  Born and raised in the Bay Area, went to one of those snooty private colleges on the east coast that rich people think are good but are really just a bought diploma.  He'd have been a perfect 80s teen movie popped-collar douchebag villain.

In fairness, something like 30% of this country couldn't point to where Texas is on a map of the United States, so not knowing whether it is "land-locked" or not isn't exactly surprising.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 10, 2023, 10:41:12 AM

Rhode Island should get mentioned here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2023, 10:50:50 AM

Quote from: grillrat on October 10, 2023, 10:29:21 AM

Umm, just for the record, you forgot the state that has more coastline than California and Florida combined.

That's the place to be for King Crab, for sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2023, 10:52:03 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 10, 2023, 10:41:12 AM

Rhode Island should get mentioned here.

For what?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 10, 2023, 10:58:24 AM

Quote from: grillrat on October 10, 2023, 10:37:13 AM

In fairness, something like 30% of this country couldn't point to where Texas is on a map of the United States, so not knowing whether it is "land-locked" or not isn't exactly surprising.

He had been living in Texas for about 3 years at the time.  I mean, if you're trying to make an argument against him being a complete dumbass, you're not really succeeding...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 10, 2023, 11:00:16 AM

New Hampshire has the shortest coastline in the United States at roughly 18 miles 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 10, 2023, 11:01:40 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/BSfcw4R.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2023, 11:06:53 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 10, 2023, 11:00:16 AM

New Hampshire has the shortest coastline in the United States at roughly 18 miles

Beautiful area regardless.

And more coastline than Montana.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 10, 2023, 11:10:30 AM

Does Alaska count?

Hawaii is fourth ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 10, 2023, 11:12:36 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 10, 2023, 10:58:24 AM

He had been living in Texas for about 3 years at the time.  I mean, if you're trying to make an argument against him being a complete dumbass, you're not really succeeding...

fairness??

it's not fair that 30% of the folks are dumbasses

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on October 10, 2023, 11:13:59 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 10, 2023, 10:58:24 AM

He had been living in Texas for about 3 years at the time.  I mean, if you're trying to make an argument against him being a complete dumbass, you're not really succeeding...

Not arguing he's not a dumbass, just arguing that our nation is filled with people who are extremely ignorant of geography, regardless of whether they are coastal elite or not.

I don't know if I've said this story here or not, but every Halloween I ask the kids that come to our house (that are over age 12 or so) to name the capitol cities of states I name.  If they get it right, they get double candy.  I live in a pretty nice suburb neighborhood, so I probably get about 40 to 50 kids over aged 12 per year (depending on weather).

I would say that the success rate is probably in the 10 to 15% range (and we're talking about easier examples like Indiana and Michigan, not Vermont or Montana).  Even worse, the amount of answers of a different state (ie. I ask what the capitol of California is and get an answer of "Nevada") is almost as high as correct answers (5 to 10%).

It truly makes me scared for the future of our society.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 10, 2023, 11:16:47 AM

I used to give quizzes in the lab courses I taught, and I'd include an extra credit question, like "When did the Civil War begin in the US?".  I'd get answers from 1500 to 1950.

These kids were mostly quite smart, many headed to medical school in the upper level courses.  History and geography would stump nearly all of them.

They did better on the tough technical questions, but they had studied and memorized.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on October 10, 2023, 11:20:49 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 10, 2023, 11:10:30 AM

Does Alaska count?

Hawaii is fourth ...

Looked it up, and Texas is actually 6th.  Louisiana has them beat (which is a little surprising until you remember that the New Orleans / Mississippi delta area is huge morass of indentions that increase the measurable coastline distance significantly).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2023, 11:24:46 AM

Quote from: grillrat on October 10, 2023, 11:20:49 AM

Looked it up, and Texas is actually 6th.  Louisiana has them beat (which is a little surprising until you remember that the New Orleans / Mississippi delta area is huge morass of indentions that increase the measurable coastline distance significantly).

I was looking at it as the bird flies and did not consider states that are not in the Lower 48.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 10, 2023, 12:18:04 PM

Quote from: grillrat on October 10, 2023, 11:13:59 AM

I would say that the success rate is probably in the 10 to 15% range (and we're talking about easier examples like Indiana and Michigan, not Vermont or Montana).  

I've been to Indianapolis. Nice town if a little boring.

Still haven't made it to Michiganapolis. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 10, 2023, 12:53:32 PM

Leaving here at 2:30 for 6 PM flight to NYC then to Gatwick, arriving noon their time, no doubt tired and grimy.  I guess that's 6 AM our time.  I hope I can get a few winks.  I arranged a ride from there to Southhampton, hope that works OK.  Should be able to check into the hotel when we arrive, get cleaned up, and maybe nap a bit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 10, 2023, 01:58:06 PM

Safe travels.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 10, 2023, 03:18:23 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 09, 2023, 12:28:17 PM

The biggest thing I've noticed is that properly cooked turkey breast is very moist and succulent if it goes onto your plate IMMEDIATELY after you slice it. If someone slices the turkey, and then it gets put out onto a platter, and then 15+ minutes go by while the family all gets seated, and then you FINALLY get it on your plate to eat... It's dried out. And what do you think usually happens in most houses on Thanksgiving? So you gotta douse it in gravy.

In this way it's a lot like brisket. If you slice a brisket and then it sits a while before it gets eaten, it can go from the most moist and decadent BBQ meat in existence, worth eating without any additional liquid, to dry and requiring BBQ sauce to hydrate it in a VERY short time.

If you cook your turkey breast down in a roaster oven, the breast will stay moist for quite a while. I also inject butter into the breast which also helps. I have sliced the turkey, put in on the tray and it was still moist a couple of hours later and even the next day. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 10, 2023, 04:27:06 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 10, 2023, 03:18:23 PM

If you cook your turkey breast down in a roaster oven, the breast will stay moist for quite a while. I also inject butter into the breast which also helps. I have sliced the turkey, put in on the tray and it was still moist a couple of hours later and even the next day.

Thanks. I might have to try the butter injection. 

Or I'll just stay out of my wife's way... She does what The Queen (Ina Garten) says, not what I say :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 10, 2023, 04:51:18 PM

We always inject the deep fried one, never any issues with lack of moisture.

I always brine the BBQ bird, and also never have any issues with moisture.

My mom, grandma, and mother-in-law used to cook turkeys in the oven.  ALWAYS had issues with moisture.

So there you have it. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 10, 2023, 05:09:00 PM

Got upgraded 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 10, 2023, 05:27:35 PM

It just occurred to me they might have tanked it intentionally to force someone else to do that job... clever women!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 10, 2023, 05:39:30 PM

Interesting:  just received text and an automated voicemail from the county sheriff’s office. 

Apparently they found two apparentl smugglers boats very near where I live.   They were abandoned- and they were able intercept the passengers from one of them.  It was 18 illegal aliens from Ecuador.  

Meanwhile- my better half is stuck in Tel Aviv.  Going into bomb shelters multiple times a day.   What a world. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 10, 2023, 05:41:48 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 10, 2023, 05:39:30 PM

Interesting:  just received text and an automated voicemail from the county sheriff’s office.

Apparently they found two apparentl smugglers boats very near where I live.  They were abandoned- and they were able intercept the passengers from one of them.  It was 18 illegal aliens from Ecuador. 

Meanwhile- my better half is stuck in Tel Aviv.  Going into bomb shelters multiple times a day.  What a world.

Yikes, best wishes for your better half.  That's really scary stuff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 10, 2023, 05:49:56 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 10, 2023, 05:39:30 PM

Meanwhile- my better half is stuck in Tel Aviv.  Going into bomb shelters multiple times a day.  What a world.

Brother, been thinking about you a lot through this. It's even worse than what I dealt with two months ago when my kids were in Maui just miles away from the fires--as horrible as that was, there was a level of predictability and I knew that as long as I didn't see news stories about resorts ablaze, they were fine. 

Glad to hear she made it from Egypt to Tel Aviv safely. As terrifying as this must be for both of you, I'm sure that was the riskiest part and she's through it. 

And yeah... What a world. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 10, 2023, 06:23:06 PM

Safe travel important 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 10, 2023, 06:54:02 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 10, 2023, 05:39:30 PM

Interesting:  just received text and an automated voicemail from the county sheriff’s office.

Apparently they found two apparentl smugglers boats very near where I live.  They were abandoned- and they were able intercept the passengers from one of them.  It was 18 illegal aliens from Ecuador. 

Meanwhile- my better half is stuck in Tel Aviv.  Going into bomb shelters multiple times a day.  What a world.

She is in all of our thoughts until you give the 'all safe' post....we're with you.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 10, 2023, 08:06:29 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 10, 2023, 05:39:30 PM

Interesting:  just received text and an automated voicemail from the county sheriff’s office.

Apparently they found two apparentl smugglers boats very near where I live.  They were abandoned- and they were able intercept the passengers from one of them.  It was 18 illegal aliens from Ecuador. 

Meanwhile- my better half is stuck in Tel Aviv.  Going into bomb shelters multiple times a day.  What a world.

The good news is that at least you know she is safe

Now for the get the hell out of there part to come

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 10, 2023, 10:14:10 PM

I used the Oven bag on turkeys before Alton Brown

could probably do both

very moist

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2023, 07:19:59 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 10, 2023, 05:39:30 PM

Meanwhile- my better half is stuck in Tel Aviv.  Going into bomb shelters multiple times a day.  What a world.

Definitely been in my thoughts. I was hoping for the best, but at least she is safe. Best wishes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 11, 2023, 07:29:34 AM

High school students’ scores on the ACT college admissions test have dropped to their lowest in more than three decades, showing a lack of student preparedness for college-level coursework, according to the nonprofit organization that administers the test.

Scores have been falling for six consecutive years, but the trend accelerated during the COVID-19 pandemic. Students in the class of 2023 whose scores were reported Wednesday were in their first year of high school when the virus reached the U.S.

“The hard truth is that we are not doing enough to ensure that graduates are truly ready for postsecondary success in college and career,” said Janet Godwin, chief executive officer for the nonprofit ACT.

The average ACT composite score for U.S. students was 19.5 out of 36. Last year, the average score was 19.8.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2023, 07:43:41 AM

Sadly, there are so many people out there who will wonder why. And they probably don't know where Texas is either.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 11, 2023, 09:34:28 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2023, 07:43:41 AM

Sadly, there are so many people out there who will wonder why. And they probably don't know where Texas is either.

Let's keep it that way.  If they can't find it on a map, perhaps they won't move here.

Overall I'm not surprised though.  Anyone paying attention knew the remote school model was dramatically inferior to in-school model.  There's just no way it could be comparable. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 11, 2023, 10:06:02 AM

Made to hotel ok.  Got through customs in 2 minutes 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2023, 11:08:28 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 10, 2023, 05:39:30 PM

Meanwhile- my better half is stuck in Tel Aviv.  Going into bomb shelters multiple times a day.  What a world.

I just read about a non-profit out of Miami that has become involved in evacuating Americans from Israel and Gaza. They prefer to use planes but can also do boats. Hopefully that will help, @Honestbuckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=37) .

Veteran-Led International Rescues - Project DYNAMO (https://www.projectdynamo.org/)

The US Navy is enroute with their strike force. Maybe they can take a few thousand out too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 11, 2023, 12:04:51 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 11, 2023, 10:06:02 AM

Made to hotel ok.  Got through customs in 2 minutes

Without brandishing a weapon?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 11, 2023, 12:05:38 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2023, 11:08:28 AM

I just read about a non-profit out of Miami that has become involved in evacuating Americans from Israel and Gaza. They prefer to use planes but can also do boats. Hopefully that will help, @Honestbuckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=37) .

Veteran-Led International Rescues - Project DYNAMO (https://www.projectdynamo.org/)

The US Navy is enroute with their strike force. Maybe they can take a few thousand out too.

Thank you!!!!!!

Right now all of the major airlines have stopped going into Tel Aviv. 

after much online time- I have found and booked her on a flight Monday. Bucharest to Rome.  Next day Rome to Miami.

Monday is a long way off- each passing day the risk of the airport closing increase. 

If it does - I am contacting that organization. 

Thank you again!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2023, 03:26:50 PM

I'd call them now and get her on the wait list - regardless. Sounds like they are overwhelmed with requests, and not just from Israel. Ukraine, Afghanistan (yes, even still, after the cluster).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Drew4UTk on October 12, 2023, 12:57:16 AM

some fellas from my old walk of life have put together teams to extract folks... i don't know if that's a good thing, or simply profiteering. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 12, 2023, 07:05:10 AM

Quote from: Drew4UTk on October 12, 2023, 12:57:16 AM

some fellas from my old walk of life have put together teams to extract folks... i don't know if that's a good thing, or simply profiteering.

The outfit I posted about is non-profit, but of course the guys doing the extracting get paid. How much, I don't know.

But they don't charge. They accept donations only.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 12, 2023, 08:00:46 AM

better donation
better spot on the list

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 12, 2023, 08:01:53 AM

Probably, but don't know for sure.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 12, 2023, 08:03:51 AM

I'm obviously guessing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 12, 2023, 05:16:38 PM

Hey @Honestbuckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=37) I just saw on the local news (Wink Fort Myers) that Governor Ron has authorized the Florida emergency management office to charter planes to Israel to a) bring supplies to front line fighters and b) to return home with Florida residents.

Please look into this.

Executive order to rescue Americans in Israel (winknews.com) (https://winknews.com/2023/10/12/ron-desantis-executive-order-israel/)

(https://i.imgur.com/CFgNsVJ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 12, 2023, 05:21:03 PM

For sure!!    They don’t give up emoji permission about how and why but I’ll just contact the governors office

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 12, 2023, 05:24:24 PM

Hell yes!!

Tell him 847 said howdy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 15, 2023, 09:01:04 AM

Saw on the news that the first flights for Floridians leaving Israel start today.

Any news @Honestbuckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=37) ?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 15, 2023, 09:05:24 AM

She is booked on a flight from Tel Aviv to Rome tomorrow evening.  Then Rome to Miami next day.  

The hope is this doesn’t escalate before that- as both Hezbolah and Syria are saber rattling- and both have precision guided missiles. They can easily strike Tel Aviv and close that airport. Fingers crossed.

She is on the list with the US as someone that wants to come back, but has not heard a thing from them 

The Florida one was great except I can’t get past their website. It’s very glitchy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 15, 2023, 09:14:30 AM

Fingers crossed is right.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 15, 2023, 09:51:59 AM

I keep having the weirdest dissonance about this. 98% of the time, accidentally stuck in Tel Aviv is pretty high upside outcome. But these times we live in, instead a nightmare.

Ugh

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 15, 2023, 09:55:30 AM

just one reason I don't care much about traveling internationally

not the top reason

I would certainly avoid any hot spot regions of the world, or probably warm in most folks view

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 15, 2023, 10:23:24 AM

Dirt farming is a wholesome venture

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 15, 2023, 10:27:53 AM

low risk/reward

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on October 16, 2023, 12:20:35 AM

As a quick callback...
I went with my boys on a boy scout camp / trip to Kings Island over the weekend.  Had to carpool 4 kids from the campsite to KI, so I thought I would ask:  answering one at a time and not getting the answer till I asked all four of them, is Texas a landlocked state?  The first three all said yes.  The fourth (and this was a surprise to me because he is the one that I would have attributed the least amount of confidence in for getting the answer right) looks at the other three and says "Heck no, what are you people idiots?"
I cringe for the next generation....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 16, 2023, 12:38:12 AM

Texas is not land locked

In fact the port of Houston ranks 1st in the US in foreign waterborne tonnage and 15th in the world

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 16, 2023, 12:49:45 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 16, 2023, 12:38:12 AM

Texas is not land locked

Whew, thanks.  We were all going to overload Google looking it up.

Those kids will figure it out in college, when they're going to South Padre Island...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on October 16, 2023, 07:15:27 AM

It’s because the Texas coastline gets almost no coverage in TV and movies. When you think of Florida it’s all alligators, Key West, Destin, Daytona Beach, and Pensacola. 

California is all LA, Beach Boys, Malibu, Alcatraz, Golden Gate Bridge. 

Texas is the Alamo, Cowboys, John Wayne movies, tumble weeds, and Dallas (TV show not the city). Galveston falls on nobody’s must visit bucket list. SPadre is pretty nice I hear.  Never really been there myself. But it gets no press. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 16, 2023, 07:54:19 AM

Quote from: grillrat on October 16, 2023, 12:20:35 AM

As a quick callback...
I went with my boys on a boy scout camp / trip to Kings Island over the weekend.  

what age are the boys?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 16, 2023, 08:09:23 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 16, 2023, 07:54:19 AM

what age are the boys?

I remember being taught geography in 1st grade. It was a map showing our school on it, and you could point out your house/apartment building.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 16, 2023, 08:09:41 AM

Floridians return from Israel on state-coordinated planes (winknews.com) (https://winknews.com/2023/10/15/floridian-return-home-israel-ron-desantis/)


Good news.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on October 16, 2023, 08:15:55 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 16, 2023, 07:54:19 AM

what age are the boys?

Two were 15, two were 18.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 16, 2023, 08:46:19 AM

Quote from: grillrat on October 16, 2023, 08:15:55 AM

Two were 15, two were 18.

Just... Wow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 16, 2023, 09:11:30 AM

yup, was hopin 5 and 8

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 16, 2023, 09:14:51 AM

That would have been better.

"We" all fear for the next generation.

But why? 

"We" are allowing to happen.

But why?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 16, 2023, 10:21:11 AM

same as our parents and grandparents

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 16, 2023, 10:26:21 AM

Seems different today. 

We had very little concern for our kids.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 16, 2023, 11:02:45 AM

Quote from: Gigem on October 16, 2023, 07:15:27 AM

It’s because the Texas coastline gets almost no coverage in TV and movies. When you think of Florida it’s all alligators, Key West, Destin, Daytona Beach, and Pensacola.

California is all LA, Beach Boys, Malibu, Alcatraz, Golden Gate Bridge.

Texas is the Alamo, Cowboys, John Wayne movies, tumble weeds, and Dallas (TV show not the city). Galveston falls on nobody’s must visit bucket list. SPadre is pretty nice I hear.  Never really been there myself. But it gets no press.

This is all true.

But it doesn't excuse this level of stupidity. 

All you have to do is look at a map, look at the largest piece of the lower 48, and you'll clearly see that it's on the Gulf. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 16, 2023, 11:08:12 AM

The vast majority of the Lower 48 is not landlocked. If a barge can get there, you're good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 16, 2023, 11:09:08 AM

barge traffic both sides of Iowa

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 16, 2023, 11:26:19 AM

In general, the Rocky Mountain states are landlocked. I think Vermont is too (with respect to shipping).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 16, 2023, 11:36:37 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 16, 2023, 11:08:12 AM

The vast majority of the Lower 48 is not landlocked. If a barge can get there, you're good.

I was going to post a question of whether states / countries with only river access to an ocean are considered "landlocked". I was thinking specifically of states on the Mississippi river that are otherwise considered landlocked but one of their borders is defined by the river. But instead of posting here I googled it. 

Apparently they are. Because where the river empties into the ocean is controlled by a state/nation other than themselves, they are considered landlocked. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 16, 2023, 11:43:28 AM

That is not how the Army Corps defines it, and they are the ones who control navigation for shipping.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 16, 2023, 11:56:09 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 16, 2023, 11:43:28 AM

That is not how the Army Corps defines it, and they are the ones who control navigation for shipping.

And in the US, that does make a lot of sense, because for Louisiana, for example, to bar barges originating in Iowa from accessing the Gulf would both be preposterous and be a massive violation of the Constitutional protections on barriers on interstate commerce. 

However, they're still considered landlocked because they don't have direct access to coastline.


https://www.geographyrealm.com/which-u-s-states-are-landlocked/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 16, 2023, 12:14:32 PM

I could get in my boat right now and get to all but 8 US states.

I won't and wouldn't, but I could.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 16, 2023, 12:18:06 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 16, 2023, 11:56:09 AM

However, they're still considered landlocked because they don't have direct access to coastline.


https://www.geographyrealm.com/which-u-s-states-are-landlocked/

And that is why, up to the Civil War, New Orleans was bought, sold, and fought over for most of European settlement of the Americas.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on October 16, 2023, 12:30:15 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 16, 2023, 11:36:37 AM

I was going to post a question of whether states / countries with only river access to an ocean are considered "landlocked". I was thinking specifically of states on the Mississippi river that are otherwise considered landlocked but one of their borders is defined by the river. But instead of posting here I googled it.

Apparently they are. Because where the river empties into the ocean is controlled by a state/nation other than themselves, they are considered landlocked.

They were landlocked until the Union took Vicksburg back from the Rebels. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 16, 2023, 12:36:01 PM

BTW, I'm not condoning what was done and is still being done by the Army Corps.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 16, 2023, 12:43:30 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 16, 2023, 12:14:32 PM

I could get in my boat right now and get to all but 8 US states.

I won't and wouldn't, but I could.

Right, but it's the difference between physically navigable and politically navigable. 

Belarus has a river connection to the Black Sea, which has a connection to the Mediterranean through the Turkish Straits (and other large seas). But in order for Belarusian ships to reach the Black Sea, they must be granted access by Ukraine. 

Iowa relies on the fact that the federal government won't allow any states south of them on the Mississippi to impede their access to the Gulf, since they don't politically control passage down that river. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 16, 2023, 01:47:39 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 15, 2023, 09:14:30 AM

Fingers crossed is right.

She took off from Tel Aviv about one hour ago, thankfully.

Well, she was waiting at the gate that bomb sirens went off and everyone in the airport went downstairs underneath the airport to the bomb shelter.  She could hear booms in the background, so naturally, she was quite nervous to get on the plane.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 16, 2023, 02:06:08 PM

That's great news. I bet you can't wait to pick her up from MIA.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 16, 2023, 02:21:59 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 16, 2023, 02:06:08 PM

That's great news. I bet you can't wait to pick her up from MIA.

Yes- other than driving in that insane traffic.  😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 16, 2023, 02:31:43 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 16, 2023, 02:21:59 PM

Yes- other than driving in that insane traffic.  😂

Bright Line??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on October 16, 2023, 02:45:00 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 16, 2023, 02:31:43 PM

Bright Line??

It is a good option.  I have used it before and it’s quite a nice set up a very reasonable too.  

This one requires my personal pick up and delivery. 😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 16, 2023, 02:45:37 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 16, 2023, 02:21:59 PM

Yes- other than driving in that insane traffic.  😂

Given all that she's been through, I'm sure you'd walk if it was necessary lol...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 16, 2023, 02:55:41 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 16, 2023, 02:45:00 PM

It is a good option.  I have used it before and it’s quite a nice set up a very reasonable too. 

This one requires my personal pick up and delivery. 😂

Agree 100 percent. You take the Tri Rail and meet her outside of customs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 16, 2023, 04:11:54 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on October 16, 2023, 12:18:06 PM

And that is why, up to the Civil War, New Orleans was bought, sold, and fought over for most of European settlement of the Americas.

I thought it was for control of the delicious Creole food.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 16, 2023, 06:55:39 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 16, 2023, 11:56:09 AM

And in the US, that does make a lot of sense, because for Louisiana, for example, to bar barges originating in Iowa from accessing the Gulf would both be preposterous and be a massive violation of the Constitutional protections on barriers on interstate commerce.

However, they're still considered landlocked because they don't have direct access to coastline.


https://www.geographyrealm.com/which-u-s-states-are-landlocked/

Don't underestimate a group of drunk cajuns....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 16, 2023, 07:07:35 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 16, 2023, 06:55:39 PM

drunk cajuns....

redundant

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 16, 2023, 07:16:16 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 16, 2023, 04:11:54 PM

I thought it was for control of the delicious Creole food. 

It was actually for control of all the corn dogs in Baton Rouge.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 16, 2023, 08:28:55 PM

You just made me think of Nawlins' style corndogs.......oh, the possibilities!
(https://i.imgur.com/FafbjKm.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on October 16, 2023, 08:36:13 PM

I work for a large, multinational company based in the mid west. We get lots of Midwest transplants and people from all over the country. They all tell me they’re shocked at how Texas is vs how they imagined. They expected a more deserty, western scene and instead they’re greeted by green flatlands and 50” of annual rain. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 16, 2023, 09:26:11 PM

Texas is only green where all the people live, lol.

Go west out of San Antone and then turn off your brain for the next 600 miles.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on October 17, 2023, 07:48:07 AM

No shit Sherlock. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 17, 2023, 08:22:25 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 16, 2023, 01:47:39 PM

She took off from Tel Aviv about one hour ago, thankfully.

Well, she was waiting at the gate that bomb sirens went off and everyone in the airport went downstairs underneath the airport to the bomb shelter.  She could hear booms in the background, so naturally, she was quite nervous to get on the plane.

We are ecstatic to see this!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 17, 2023, 08:40:20 AM

Actually, west of San Antonio for about the next 150 miles, is the Texas Hill Country, which is quite beautiful.  It's the next 400 miles beyond that, that are more like southern New Mexico and Arizona.

Texas Hill Country:

(https://i.imgur.com/4uN3bY7.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/ne6ExIg.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/DFjRkcw.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/h55SxmR.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 17, 2023, 09:52:36 AM

LINCOLN, Neb. (KOLN) - Lincoln is home to over 75 roundabouts. CNBC released a special highlighting Nebraska’s capital as having the most traffic circles, right after Carmel, Ind., which has 145.

Dan Carpenter is the manager of traffic engineering at Lincoln Transportation and Utilities.

Carpenter said the safety of Lincoln residents is the driving force behind the implementation.

“It demonstrates a significant investment into both our city streets as well as the safety and citizens around Lincoln,” Carpenter said.


Carpenter said the roundabout at 56th and Yankee Hill Road is the most successful project. He said before the construction, from 2016 to 2020, there were 20 car wrecks on that road, eight of which resulted in injury.

Since the roundabout opened in 2021, there have been two crashes reported, none of them serious.

“We’ve seen pretty instant benefits from this intersection alone at 56th and Yankee Hill,” Carpenter said.

Carpenter said the roundabout also cost the city less money. A standard four-way intersection can cost up to $1.4 million, however, roundabouts can cost between $750-$950,000.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on October 17, 2023, 10:10:21 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 17, 2023, 08:40:20 AM

Actually, west of San Antonio for about the next 150 miles, is the Texas Hill Country, which is quite beautiful.  It's the next 400 miles beyond that, that are more like southern New Mexico and Arizona.

Texas Hill Country:

(https://i.imgur.com/4uN3bY7.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/ne6ExIg.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/DFjRkcw.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/h55SxmR.jpg)

I've rarely spent much time West of San Antone.  Once to Big Bend in 1986/87 (just before 4th grade).  And then a few trips over the years towards Uvalde (Frio River area).  But this picture matches my experience.  Can be very beautiful in places and certain times of year.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 17, 2023, 10:12:46 AM

Quote from: Gigem on October 17, 2023, 10:10:21 AM

I've rarely spent much time West of San Antone.  Once to Big Bend in 1986/87 (just before 4th grade).  And then a few trips over the years towards Uvalde (Frio River area).  But this picture matches my experience.  Can be very beautiful in places and certain times of year. 

Third from top is the Frio River at Garner State Park.  It's fantastic.  We get there at least once per year and we go more often when we can.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 17, 2023, 10:21:19 AM

I took the family to The Flying L ranch in Bandera about 30 miles west of San Antonio twice in the 1990s

This is a really great Hill Country dude ranch with a golf course

We went horse back riding, tubing and I got in a few rounds of golf

We took a day trip to Fredericksburg and had a blast

I really recommend that place for the family looking for something different for a vacation

bring money cause it aint cheap

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 17, 2023, 03:37:49 PM

Quote from: utee94 on October 17, 2023, 08:40:20 AM

Actually, west of San Antonio for about the next 150 miles, is the Texas Hill Country, which is quite beautiful.  It's the next 400 miles beyond that, that are more like southern New Mexico and Arizona.

Texas Hill Country:

(https://i.imgur.com/4uN3bY7.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/ne6ExIg.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/DFjRkcw.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/h55SxmR.jpg)

Interesting.

I’ve been reading a good LBJ biography that spends a bunch of time talking about parts of hill country that looked like this but got desecrated by agriculture. Though I’m guessing that might be a different part of the area

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 17, 2023, 06:18:48 PM

I’m at a restaurant with a bar and some drunk dink is getting plastered with his pistol hanging out the back pocket of his cargo pants. 

Dipshit. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 17, 2023, 06:35:29 PM

SEC country?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 17, 2023, 08:04:40 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 17, 2023, 06:18:48 PM

I’m at a restaurant with a bar and some drunk dink is getting plastered with his pistol hanging out the back pocket of his cargo pants.

Dipshit.

Thought that was a felony carrying while under the influence?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 18, 2023, 12:20:35 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 17, 2023, 06:35:29 PM

SEC country?

Not quite. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 18, 2023, 12:21:46 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 17, 2023, 08:04:40 PM

Thought that was a felony carrying while under the influence?

I dunno. Doesn't matter if you're not caught. 

I more just rolled my eyes at the cavalier-ness of it. Rarely do I say "That person would be better off shoving a gun in his waistband." But here we are. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 18, 2023, 06:56:33 AM

Check your state's carry rules:


Bars. In some other places, such as establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed, firearms are prohibited unless they're handguns carried by people with concealed carry permits and the establishment doesn't post otherwise.

Consumption of alcohol. Even with a permit, it's always illegal to carry a concealed handgun away from your own property while you're drinking alcohol or while you still have any alcohol or illegal drugs in your blood.


It's illegal, so next time step outside and call the police. That dipshit is a menace to society.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 18, 2023, 07:40:35 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 17, 2023, 03:37:49 PM

Interesting.

I’ve been reading a good LBJ biography that spends a bunch of time talking about parts of hill country that looked like this but got desecrated by agriculture. Though I’m guessing that might be a different part of the area

I suppose there might be some, but you can tell by looking at it that it's not really ideally suited for farming.

These days there are tons of vineyards out there, though.   The land is pretty good for that.

For the most part it's about 31,000 square miles of the above.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 18, 2023, 07:42:04 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 18, 2023, 06:56:33 AM

Check your state's carry rules:

Consumption of alcohol. Even with a permit, it's always illegal to carry a concealed handgun away from your own property while you're drinking alcohol or while you still have any alcohol or illegal drugs in your blood.

It's illegal, so next time step outside and call the police. That dipshit is a menace to society.

Good Work,you get a Yuengling 847

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 18, 2023, 07:44:05 AM

Can I have Scotch instead? I promise to not carry afterward.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 18, 2023, 08:13:54 AM

All I have right now is Eagle Rare,Reverend Jim Beam,Weller's Reserve and some Great Lakes Oktoberfests,no Scotch or Yuengling - sorry. I'll try to up my game - in the mean time up yours

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 18, 2023, 08:19:07 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 17, 2023, 06:18:48 PM

I’m at a restaurant with a bar and some drunk dink is getting plastered with his pistol hanging out the back pocket of his cargo pants.

Dipshit.

Just because you can carry firearms doesn't mean you should. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 18, 2023, 08:27:30 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on October 18, 2023, 08:19:07 AM

Just because you can carry firearms doesn't mean you should.

Correct.

If I know I'm going to be drinking, I don't carry. Which means I never carry, unless I'm headed to the range (before drinking).

Priorities. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 18, 2023, 08:42:36 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 18, 2023, 08:27:30 AM

Correct.

If I know I'm going to be drinking, I don't carry. Which means I never carry, unless I'm headed to the range (before drinking).

Priorities.

I can't imagine a situation where I'm headed out on the town and would feel the need to take any guns.

Going camping?  Sure, I'll bring it.

Going clubbing?  Uh, no.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 18, 2023, 09:14:50 AM

more folks shot at the club than the camp ground

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 18, 2023, 09:16:09 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 18, 2023, 09:14:50 AM

more folks shot at the club than the camp ground

More folks shot at the club by people who cannot legally have guns.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 18, 2023, 09:19:20 AM

yup

don't have to worry about those types at the campround

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 18, 2023, 09:30:32 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 18, 2023, 08:42:36 AM

I can't imagine a situation where I'm headed out on the town and would feel the need to take any guns.

Going camping?  Sure, I'll bring it.

Going clubbing?  Uh, no.

Clubbing,I guess the VFW counts and they do not allow one in,no need to either

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 18, 2023, 10:04:20 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 18, 2023, 07:40:35 AM

I suppose there might be some, but you can tell by looking at it that it's not really ideally suited for farming.

Having worked for about a year in west Austin doing landscaping and sprinkler systems, I can tell you the hill country is definitely not suited for farming.  Buncha rocks with grass growing deceptively on top of it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 18, 2023, 10:07:49 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 18, 2023, 09:19:20 AM

yup

don't have to worry about those types at the campround

Oh I could tell you stories about the types you see at the campground.

Pretty sure I do more camping than anyone else on this site...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 18, 2023, 10:09:21 AM

agreed, but those types are not going to the club

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 18, 2023, 10:11:43 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 18, 2023, 10:09:21 AM

agreed, but those types are not going to the club

You're talking in circles here.

And I'm not sure what clubs you're going to, but the ones I end up at, I'm not worried about getting shot.

Y'all must be living some crazy lifestyle if that's a worry for you.  My suggestion would be, stop going to that kind of club.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 18, 2023, 10:24:56 AM

All the "clubs" around here close at 9.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 18, 2023, 10:27:56 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 18, 2023, 10:11:43 AM

You're talking in circles here.

And I'm not sure what clubs you're going to, but the ones I end up at, I'm not worried about getting shot.

Y'all must be living some crazy lifestyle if that's a worry for you.  My suggestion would be, stop going to that kind of club.

I'm not going to those types of clubs, don't even have them in this area

types of clubs filled with Rappers and NBA players and illegally carried weapons

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 18, 2023, 10:30:03 AM

I used to walk around Austin at all hours without much worry, or any seeming need to be. 

I don't know that I'd feel that way anymore, based on the footage and stories coming out of there during 2020's Summer of Love. 

I don't even like being in Beaumont in the evening most of the time, and the time is coming I may decide to carry even there.  Seems like a hassle though, and at this point, I'm rarely "out" at night.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 18, 2023, 10:32:34 AM

You would like it here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 18, 2023, 10:39:20 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 18, 2023, 10:04:20 AM

Having worked for about a year in west Austin doing landscaping and sprinkler systems, I can tell you the hill country is definitely not suited for farming.  Buncha rocks with grass growing deceptively on top of it. 

There’s some interesting history there. Settlers saw the lush parts of it, got to farming, wondered why the plants were so small. The farming upset the fragile soil, rains came, washed always the farms. Led to some very hard times, but of course those folks didn’t know 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 18, 2023, 02:36:49 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 18, 2023, 10:30:03 AM

I used to walk around Austin at all hours without much worry, or any seeming need to be. 

I don't know that I'd feel that way anymore, based on the footage and stories coming out of there during 2020's Summer of Love. 

I don't even like being in Beaumont in the evening most of the time, and the time is coming I may decide to carry even there.  Seems like a hassle though, and at this point, I'm rarely "out" at night. 

Well you know you have to stay away from Dirty 6th-- they'll steal your kidneys.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 18, 2023, 02:56:44 PM

Quote from: utee94 on October 18, 2023, 02:36:49 PM

Well you know you have to stay away from Dirty 6th-- they'll steal your kidneys.

So there are kidneys to steal? 
 
I may have to look at property down there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 18, 2023, 04:43:41 PM

Must be why I haven't peed since 2008.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 18, 2023, 05:19:03 PM

Hooky was actually the ring leader of a kidney-harvesting gang.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 19, 2023, 05:51:34 PM

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) — The number of former Californians who became Texans dropped slightly last year, but some of that slack was picked up by Arizona and Florida, which saw their tallies of ex-Californians grow, according to new state-to-state migration figures released Thursday.

The flow of Californians to Texas has marked the largest state-to-state movement in the U.S. for the past two years, but it decreased from more than 107,000 people in 2021 to more than 102,000 residents in 2022, as real estate in Texas’ largest cities has grown more expensive. In Florida, meanwhile, the number of former Californians went from more than 37,000 people in 2021 to more than 50,000 people in 2022, and in Arizona, it went from more than 69,000 people to 74,000 people during that same time period.

California had a net loss of more than 113,000 residents last year, a number that would have been much higher if not for people moving to the state from other countries and a natural increase from more births than deaths. More than 343,000 people left California for another state last year, the highest number of any U.S. state.


Housing costs are driving decisions to move out of California, which with 39 million residents is the most populous U.S. state, according to Manuel Pastor, a professor of sociology and American Studies & Ethnicity at the University of Southern California.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 19, 2023, 05:59:14 PM

An old friend and his wife/kids moved to Phoenix a year ago to get closer to her family. He said the real estate market has went thru the roof

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 19, 2023, 06:29:07 PM

Yep. Everyone's fleeing. 

Yet there isn't a single unattached SFH here in Mission Viejo with 3bdr/2ba that's not in a retirement community for less than $1M. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 19, 2023, 06:44:48 PM

one reason they're leaving

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 19, 2023, 06:54:22 PM

I'd love to live in a 55+ community.  Can be very nice, cheap, and quiet.  
Ageism keeps me out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 19, 2023, 06:55:19 PM

FL and TX have 3-4-5 big cities to absorb all those people.  AZ has Phoenix and Phoenix.  
They're not moving to Winslow, Yuma, or Strawberry.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 19, 2023, 07:30:19 PM

Water supply would be a guess

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 19, 2023, 07:39:58 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 19, 2023, 06:44:48 PM

one reason they're leaving

Right, but it's like the Yogi Berra quote... "Nobody lives there anymore. It's too crowded."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 19, 2023, 10:49:40 PM

Smart people leaving, dummies moving in.  You know how it is. Certain recipe for success.

:)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on October 19, 2023, 11:42:16 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 19, 2023, 06:54:22 PM

I'd love to live in a 55+ community.  Can be very nice, cheap, and quiet. 
Ageism keeps me out.

Plus you could leave near people who remembered when Florida football didn't underachieve. :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 19, 2023, 11:44:49 PM

Hey computer nerds, I'm looking to replace my 3 year-old pedestrian computer that I only use for surfing the internets and saving thousands of documents on.  Just looking to spend like $300-500.  
What RAM and storage should I expect?  
What processor won't be obsolete 5 min after buying?
.
Right now, I have an Intel Core i5-62000 @ 2.3GHz
8 GB RAM
240 GB storage
.
All I literally use it for is excel docs and www.internet.com........and of course youtube videos and what-not.
What should I avoid?  
Is this $300 HP thing I found on Amazon with much of the storage by way of micro SD a bad buy?  

HELP

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 19, 2023, 11:45:05 PM

Quote from: ELA on October 19, 2023, 11:42:16 PM

Plus you could leave near people who remembered when Florida football didn't underachieve. :57:

Rutgers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 19, 2023, 11:51:23 PM

You get what you pay for.  Sometimes less.

Do you ever carry this thing around?  Or does it stay 100% at your home on your couch or kitchen table or home desktop or whatever?

If it's ever moving, at all, I'd avoid the entry-level brands, coming from ANY manufacturer.  They're just not very well built and don't withstand the punishment of moving around.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 19, 2023, 11:52:20 PM

I move it from my desk to my chair, but that's about it.  Otherwise, I treat it like a desktop.  No home-to-work or anything like that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 19, 2023, 11:59:38 PM

If the i5 has been working for you so far then it should work for you going forward.

Here's the entry-level Dell Inspiron spec'd similarly to what you're looking for, not a bad deal, but this is definitely not something that is going to withstand any punishment.  Same would be true for the equivalent HP or Lenovo or whatever. 

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/inspiron-15-laptop/spd/inspiron-15-3520-laptop/nn3520gmqdh

This one has 16G RAM which is a little better than some others.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on October 20, 2023, 12:50:28 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 19, 2023, 11:45:05 PM

Rutgers.

They also remember?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2023, 06:56:30 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 19, 2023, 05:51:34 PM

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) — The number of former Californians who became Texans dropped slightly last year, but some of that slack was picked up by Arizona and Florida, which saw their tallies of ex-Californians grow, according to new state-to-state migration figures released Thursday.

The flow of Californians to Texas has marked the largest state-to-state movement in the U.S. for the past two years, but it decreased from more than 107,000 people in 2021 to more than 102,000 residents in 2022, as real estate in Texas’ largest cities has grown more expensive. In Florida, meanwhile, the number of former Californians went from more than 37,000 people in 2021 to more than 50,000 people in 2022, and in Arizona, it went from more than 69,000 people to 74,000 people during that same time period.

California had a net loss of more than 113,000 residents last year, a number that would have been much higher if not for people moving to the state from other countries and a natural increase from more births than deaths. More than 343,000 people left California for another state last year, the highest number of any U.S. state.


Housing costs are driving decisions to move out of California, which with 39 million residents is the most populous U.S. state, according to Manuel Pastor, a professor of sociology and American Studies & Ethnicity at the University of Southern California.

I feel better knowing that is the only reason people are leaving California.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2023, 09:06:39 AM

Florida man!!

Florida street racer loses control and crashes into canal | Watch (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/florida-street-racer-loses-control-and-crashes-into-canal/vi-AA1iyIFu?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=2c0d0fb3f80f43e19cf90e10489b2274&ei=30)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 20, 2023, 09:17:06 AM

Ok kids, I'm headed into the racing track grounds at COTA, for the Formula 1 United States Grand Prix practice and qualifying.  Y'all have an excellent day.

If you're watching on TV, look for me in the main grandstands.  I'll be the dude wearing Ferrari gear and a Longhorn baseball cap.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2023, 09:20:29 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2023, 06:56:30 AM

I feel better knowing that is the only reason people are leaving California.

according to Manuel Pastor, a professor of sociology and American Studies & Ethnicity at the University of Southern California.

"EXPERT"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2023, 09:22:33 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 20, 2023, 09:20:29 AM

according to Manuel Pastor, a professor of sociology and American Studies & Ethnicity at the University of Southern California.

"EXPERT"

Even better.


He should talk to some of the refugees I've talked to.


EXPERT!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2023, 09:29:14 AM

OMAHA, Neb. —
Omaha police said in the six weeks since Nebraska’s constitutional carry law took effect they've arrested several people for failing to tell police they have a gun on them when they're contacted.

You may remember that Omaha police testified against the bill, saying its implications for a bigger city could lead to issues.

A misdemeanor charge laid out in the bill is still offering police some ability to deal with concealed guns locally.

A new constitutional carry law on the books in Nebraska is a learning curve for both the public and police.


https://www.ketv.com/article/omaha-police-making-arrests-failure-to-disclose-after-constitutional-carry-law-goes-into-effect/45578378# (https://www.ketv.com/article/omaha-police-making-arrests-failure-to-disclose-after-constitutional-carry-law-goes-into-effect/45578378#)

“You have the right to carry the gun on you. But you also need to let law enforcement know, for their protection, everything else, so that that you have the firearm on you,” said Capt. Keith Williamson, with the Omaha Police Department.

Williamson leads the Omaha Police Department gang unit.
Over the past several weeks, he's also spent time learning about LB77 and its impacts on policing.
He said many people don't know that the law requires immediate notification and an ID, which can lead to citations.


"It's not it's not uncommon,” Williamson said.

In fact, according to law enforcement booking information, at least one person has been charged with "failure to disclose" a concealed weapon every day in the last week.
It's a misdemeanor for the first offense, an elevated misdemeanor for the second offense, and a felony for any additional offense.

"This was the will of the legislature and it passed. So, we will enforce the law with that. And we'll do our best to work within the confines of the law to respect people's constitutional rights and to keep the public safe,” Williamson said.

Williamson said if you tell an officer you have a gun on you or in your car right when they contact you, you're usually in the clear.
But he said these charges are often tacked on with other serious charges.

"I see those reports from what my officers do know and we are making arrests for that with people that we know are gang members,” Williamson said.

The bill forced the city to repeal some ordinances around firearms.
Williamson said that's made it more difficult trying to track guns in the wrong hands.
But as for the failure to disclose portion of the law, he said it's one tool in OPD’s arsenal.

"I would echo what both our mayor and chief’s said, is, we want more local control just to deal with the crime factors that we see locally that are different than other cities across our state,” Williamson said.

Williamson said the law still requires a concealed handgun carrier to be 21.
So, even if someone younger than that discloses, they could face a more serious charge.
And for any prohibited person carrying, they face a harsher penalty, too, even if they disclose.
He stresses it's still too early to tell any trends on these charges.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 20, 2023, 09:42:12 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2023, 09:22:33 AM

Even better.


He should talk to some of the refugees I've talked to.


EXPERT!!

Yep. And the best way to learn about someone is to talk to their exes, right? Completely unbiased source...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 20, 2023, 09:45:18 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 19, 2023, 11:44:49 PM

Hey computer nerds, I'm looking to replace my 3 year-old pedestrian computer that I only use for surfing the internets and saving thousands of documents on.  Just looking to spend like $300-500. 

Why are you replacing? If it hasn't stopped working, chances are you're not going to find much of a difference with something only 3 years newer. Esp. since you're only doing browser-based work and basic documents/etc. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2023, 09:49:20 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 20, 2023, 09:42:12 AM

Yep. And the best way to learn about someone is to talk to their exes, right? Completely unbiased source...

I mostly hear crime, homelessness and taxes.

You're in a safe area, isolated from 2 of those (I assume??).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 20, 2023, 09:50:47 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2023, 09:49:20 AM

I mostly hear crime, homelessness and taxes.

You're in a safe area, isolated from 2 of those (I assume??).

No homeless in this area. Not much crime, but there are reports of South American organized crime rings robbing homes. Don't think they come around to my neighborhood though... Not ritzy enough. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 20, 2023, 10:57:56 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 19, 2023, 11:44:49 PM

Hey computer nerds, I'm looking to replace my 3 year-old pedestrian computer that I only use for surfing the internets and saving thousands of documents on.  Just looking to spend like $300-500. 
What RAM and storage should I expect? 
What processor won't be obsolete 5 min after buying?
.
Right now, I have an Intel Core i5-62000 @ 2.3GHz
8 GB RAM
240 GB storage
.
All I literally use it for is excel docs and www.internet.com........and of course youtube videos and what-not.
What should I avoid? 
Is this $300 HP thing I found on Amazon with much of the storage by way of micro SD a bad buy? 

HELP

If literally all you do is web surfing and aren't averse to storing documents in the cloud, you could consider a Chromebook.  You can probably get a new one for a few hundred dollars, should be cheaper than any decent Dell, HP, etc.  If you need to run any software other than MS Office, it's not the way to go.  But could be something to consider, based on your needs.  If you like to store docs locally, it's also probably not the way to go.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on October 20, 2023, 10:58:21 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 19, 2023, 06:54:22 PM

I'd love to live in a 55+ community.  Can be very nice, cheap, and quiet. 
Ageism keeps me out.

My 55+ community is quiet, but not cheap. And then you live with a bunch of 75-80yo busybodies.  It is as bad as high School.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 20, 2023, 11:09:40 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 20, 2023, 09:17:06 AM

If you're watching on TV, look for me in the main grandstands.  I'll be the dude wearing Ferrari gear and a Longhorn baseball cap.

Thought you would have made the pit crew by now 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2023, 11:36:17 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on October 20, 2023, 10:58:21 AM

My 55+ community is quiet, but not cheap. And then you live with a bunch of 75-80yo busybodies.  It is as bad as high School.

Yeah, not cheap. And yeah... busybodies are a pain in the ass. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 21, 2023, 06:10:49 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 20, 2023, 09:22:33 AM

Even better.


He should talk to some of the refugees I've talked to.


EXPERT!!

Feeling, man people got their feelings. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 21, 2023, 07:42:08 AM

I absolutely hate that song. Gave me a headache as a kid.

Man, so much '70's music just sucked.

Exceptions to hard rock and hard rock only.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on October 24, 2023, 11:19:46 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 19, 2023, 06:54:22 PM

I'd love to live in a 55+ community.  Can be very nice, cheap, and quiet. 
Ageism keeps me out.

Sometimes I wonder if that's really legal.  Like if somebody challenged the law would it hold up?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 24, 2023, 12:07:06 PM

Quote from: Gigem on October 24, 2023, 11:19:46 AM

Sometimes I wonder if that's really legal.  Like if somebody challenged the law would it hold up? 

That’s an interesting question. I wonder if there are certain services or what not that you have to offer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 24, 2023, 12:24:41 PM

I'm sure it's been challenged. Dell-Webb has been doing them for at least 30 years, since I began doing work for them.

The idea behind it was common interests among older people, with amenities to match, and reduced property taxes for those who have no kids in schools.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 24, 2023, 01:15:12 PM

Interesting.

https://www.wsj.com/tech/states-sue-meta-alleging-harm-to-young-people-on-instagram-facebook-f9ff4641?st=bw9u20lagogjmsy&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 24, 2023, 01:20:35 PM

Well we were talking about the increased cost of car batteries... Unfortunately I just had to pay it. 

Got into the Flex with the kids to take them to school this morning--wouldn't start. Thankfully we hopped in the Jeep and got them there and on time, perhaps a little colder than planned, but overall fine. 

Battery was >5 years old and out of warranty, tested as poor health, and so $208 later I've got a brand new one. 

Yay. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 24, 2023, 02:11:38 PM

Yup.  They're significantly more expensive lately.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 24, 2023, 02:13:44 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 24, 2023, 01:15:12 PM

Interesting.

https://www.wsj.com/tech/states-sue-meta-alleging-harm-to-young-people-on-instagram-facebook-f9ff4641?st=bw9u20lagogjmsy&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

From a legal sense, that feels dubious. Or at least weirdly niche. Will be interesting to see how it goes, and will no doubt bleed meta’s resources as good bit. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on October 24, 2023, 04:42:52 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 24, 2023, 12:07:06 PM

That’s an interesting question. I wonder if there are certain services or what not that you have to offer.

I thought it was an amendment to the constitution, but I guess it's not an amendment but more of a civil rights law that you cannot discriminate based on color, sex, age, race or religion.  So for example, if you wanted to have a community that ONLY caters to people of a certain race that would definitely be illegal.  

I guess it kinda falls under the same type of exemption that will let you have a .357 magnum hand-gun but not a bazooka.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 24, 2023, 06:36:55 PM

We looked at a couple 55+ communities, they'll sell to anyone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 25, 2023, 08:07:12 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 24, 2023, 06:36:55 PM

We looked at a couple 55+ communities, they'll sell to anyone.

That's might be true in some cases too. But if I'm 30 I wouldn't want to be in a 55+ community. No appeal.

It's kinda like the cruise line we use exclusively. They tell you flat out that if you are under 40, it's probably not for you. And it's not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 25, 2023, 08:12:58 AM

Sure, these are tailored swiftly for older folks, but there is no discrimintion based on age.  A retired 54 year old might like the place.

I recall looking at one in Nocatee south of Jacksonville.  They had a huge and expensive club house and a smallish 2 BDR house on tiny lot.  My wife didn't like it at all, which is kinda funny considering we live in a condo now.  (Our condo is larger than their house.)

I can see the appeal, but I prefer this place by a lot personallly.  Most folks around us are 30-somethings and I think it helps not to be around solely older folks.  

Del Webb Nocatee Active Retirement Community | Senior Living Near Me | Del Webb (https://www.delwebb.com/homes/florida/jacksonville/ponte-vedra/del-webb-nocatee-210299?cmp=BPS-_-GO-_-NEFL-_-JAC-_-DW-_-NA-_-ASM-_-NA-_-&gad=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw-eKpBhAbEiwAqFL0mgOmsJDuhAi5BKKu090p5Wo7gyVpq8MbUooMXjLjbf91LBzSVL67tRoCS4gQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds)

It's obviously a successful concept.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 25, 2023, 08:43:46 AM

Quote from: Gigem on October 24, 2023, 04:42:52 PM

I thought it was an amendment to the constitution, but I guess it's not an amendment but more of a civil rights law that you cannot discriminate based on color, sex, age, race or religion.  So for example, if you wanted to have a community that ONLY caters to people of a certain race that would definitely be illegal. 

I guess it kinda falls under the same type of exemption that will let you have a .357 magnum hand-gun but not a bazooka. 

I guess the question would be what area of flexibility would that fall into.

Like, you can say 30 year olds can’t go to kindergarten. You can charge 17 year olds more for car insurance.

But I suppose it’s also possible a lot are technically available to under 55 if they throw a fit. But if you have the money to do such a thing, you probably just won’t bother. And if you did, you would be like a 45 year old he goes back to high school. An oddity and a rarity.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 25, 2023, 08:47:31 AM

Southern Stars Shine in Premiere of MICHELIN Guide Atlanta :: Michelin North America, Inc. (michelinmedia.com) (https://michelinmedia.com/c0/southern-stars-shine-premiere-michelin-guide-atlanta/)

We've been to one of these, never even heard of three of them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 25, 2023, 08:58:42 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 25, 2023, 08:43:46 AM

I guess the question would be what area of flexibility would that fall into.

Like, you can say 30 year olds can’t go to kindergarten. You can charge 17 year olds more for car insurance.

But I suppose it’s also possible a lot are technically available to under 55 if they throw a fit. But if you have the money to do such a thing, you probably just won’t bother. And if you did, you would be like a 45 year old he goes back to high school. An oddity and a rarity.

25 to rent a car.


(https://i.imgur.com/miDRPGL.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 25, 2023, 02:00:13 PM

Well, they finally did it.

(https://i.imgur.com/TyLX2wJ.jpg)

We have a House Speaker.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 25, 2023, 02:53:49 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 25, 2023, 02:00:13 PM

Well, they finally did it.

[img width=234.333 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/TyLX2wJ.jpg[/img]

We have a House Speaker.

Let's see how long he lasts before he gets shanked by his own caucus.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 25, 2023, 03:02:36 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 25, 2023, 08:58:42 AM

25 to rent a car.


(https://i.imgur.com/miDRPGL.jpg)

Interestingly, that hasn’t really been true for a long time. When I was 22, I rented a car in Madison to go to a job interview in Minnesota. I had an extra fee of $20 per day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 25, 2023, 04:07:57 PM

Yeah, you're right. Thinking about that, I did rent a car at 21 in Florida for my honeymoon. It did cost around double though.

Stupid idea to get married at 21. Such an idiot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 25, 2023, 04:11:33 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on October 25, 2023, 02:53:49 PM

Let's see how long he lasts before he gets shanked by his own caucus.

I don't think that will happen to this guy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 25, 2023, 04:13:40 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 25, 2023, 04:07:57 PM

Stupid idea to get married at 21. Such an idiot.

I was just shy of 26 and I was an idiot also.  I did better on round 2, by  a lot.  You did too I suspect.

They should have a "learner's permit" for marriage.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 25, 2023, 04:23:02 PM

And a written exam.

And yeah, round 2 is wonderful. Coming up on 30 years soon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 25, 2023, 04:26:33 PM

We just passed ten.  The last thing on my mind was every remarrying, from 1993 to 2010 or so.

I kid her about being my French trophy wife.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 25, 2023, 08:55:09 PM

I'll never understand marriage.
Just be together.

When have you ever been in a great situation and thought, "gee, a bunch of paperwork would make this even better!"

Have a wedding.

Share a bank account.

But just be together.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 25, 2023, 09:26:06 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 25, 2023, 04:26:33 PM

I kid her about being my French trophy wife.

Ya and she got a Dog Dawg in return

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 26, 2023, 06:01:13 AM

There are pretty clear financial advantages and protections in being married instead of being together.  The latter was fine with us in fact, but I felt marriage was financially and legally the better option for various reasons.  I wanted to ensure my wife was protected so far as possible to any untimely events.

There also can be financial downsides depending.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 26, 2023, 07:48:24 AM

"Nothing" doesn't exist. Instead, there's "quantum foam" - Big Think (https://bigthink.com/hard-science/nothing-exist-quantum-foam/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1dyBP0KkQITcKzm7IF5l-vfFXQqv5hAmeL2rDO8z4ByzS-hz9tvPjv6hU#Echobox=1698097567)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 26, 2023, 08:13:58 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 26, 2023, 06:01:13 AM

There are pretty clear financial advantages and protections in being married instead of being together.  The latter was fine with us in fact, but I felt marriage was financially and legally the better option for various reasons.  I wanted to ensure my wife was protected so far as possible to any untimely events.

There also can be financial downsides depending.

All of this is truth.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 26, 2023, 09:29:39 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 26, 2023, 06:01:13 AM

There are pretty clear financial advantages and protections in being married instead of being together.  The latter was fine with us in fact, but I felt marriage was financially and legally the better option for various reasons.  I wanted to ensure my wife was protected so far as possible to any untimely events.

There also can be financial downsides depending.

I can't say there was much paperwork involved when I got married.  We had to get a marriage license from the courthouse beforehand, which was quick and easy.  If we filled anything out it was so little that I don't remember it.  The guy who did our wedding signed the license, we signed it as well, I believe a couple of witnesses had to sign also.  5 minutes to go file it at the courthouse later.  

The government can take 3 basic stances toward any action.  1) Endorse  2) Allow  3) Prohibit.  Generally, a good government wants to prohibit only what actively harms society, and endorse whatever actively helps society.  Everything else, they're wise to stay out of and merely allow it (insert argument here about gub'ment increasingly not staying out of things).  The institution of marriage was historically endorsed by governments due to the belief that marriage is a key component in the perpetuation and stabilization of society, different than merely being together.  While there is a plethora of sociological research that gives credence to that, it increasingly is not the view of citizens or the government, though the advantages you mention--or government "endorsements" if you will--still remain.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 26, 2023, 09:35:00 AM

I do chuckle when I think about having to get a marriage license. It's just a fee (tax) for the governmental jurisdiction you are in.

We paid two of them. We got married in Deerfield, IL - most of which is in Lake County - so we got that license.

We then found out that the venue was about 300 feet into Crook County, so we got that license too.

Silly shit.

Anyway, how do people feel about having to get a marriage license? 

How about a license to give birth? Nope, don't need that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 26, 2023, 09:38:51 AM

it's how I feel about most things the government requires

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 26, 2023, 09:43:09 AM

I don't recall that getting said license was anything of consequence at all.  But MARRIAGE does afford protections to both parties, mostly the one less financially secure.  It also means you inherit any spousal financial issues of course.

We were married in our back yard by a friend who is a lawyer and had the license to marry us.  If you asked me where our license was, I'd say "Ask my wife".

There usually are decent reasons for government "licenses" which often get expanded into just a money grab for no reason.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 26, 2023, 09:48:41 AM

I'd be okay with a license to vote, as long as it was only granted when you pass an intelligence test.  

An intelligence test designed and administered by ME, obviously.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 26, 2023, 09:48:47 AM

I'm actually permitted to marry people. 

Only one has ever asked and I politely declined because I thought the girl was a scary bitch. Of course, I didn't put it that way...

I was right. They lasted 11 months.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 26, 2023, 09:50:07 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 26, 2023, 09:43:09 AM

There usually are decent reasons for government "licenses" which often get expanded into just a money grab for no reason.

My guess is the gub'ment can claim they need something filed so they have record of who gets the "advantages" they're offering.  Thus, filing a license. 

My other guess is you are correct, they probably inflate any fees involved beyond what's necessary not to lose money, because if you're going to require a license, you might as well turn it into a money grab.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 26, 2023, 09:51:25 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 26, 2023, 09:48:41 AM

I'd be okay with a license to vote, as long as it was only granted when you pass an intelligence test. 

An intelligence test designed and administered by ME, obviously.

I can help you with the design if you want.

Speaking of... Have you seen the news out of Oregon, and their graduation requirements? Those people will be allowed to vote.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 26, 2023, 09:54:03 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 26, 2023, 09:48:41 AM

I'd be okay with a license to vote, as long as it was only granted when you pass an intelligence test. 

An intelligence test designed and administered by ME, obviously.

I've seen one or two of the presidential candidates say they're in favor of citizens passing the same civics test immigrants are required to pass to become citizens in order to be eligible to vote. 

Out of curiosity, I took a few citizenship tests online, surprisingly I did very well even though I don't remember much from high school Civics class. 

I don't know if I could pass your test, though. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 26, 2023, 09:58:14 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 26, 2023, 09:54:03 AM

I've seen one or two of the presidential candidates say they're in favor of citizens passing the same civics test immigrants are required to pass to become citizens in order to be eligible to vote. 

Out of curiosity, I took a few citizenship tests online, surprisingly I did very well even though I don't remember much from high school Civics class. 

I don't know if I could pass your test, though. 

I love the State Fair so there'd be some questions about corny dogs, you'd do just fine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 26, 2023, 10:00:45 AM

My wife took said citizenship test.  She had been worried about it, we reviewed the various questions they might ask, some of which are fairly specific and detailed.  They didn't ask her anything "tough", she said it seemed more about how well she spoke the language, and it was over quickly.

One question as I recall was to name the three major parts of our government.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 26, 2023, 10:02:30 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 26, 2023, 10:00:45 AM

My wife took said citizenship test.  She had been worried about it, we reviewed the various questions they might ask, some of which are fairly specific and detailed.  They didn't ask her anything "tough", she said it seemed more about how well she spoke the language, and it was over quickly.

One question as I recall was to name the three major parts of our government.

That's easy.

CIA, FBI, IRS.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on October 26, 2023, 10:24:17 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 26, 2023, 10:00:45 AM

My wife took said citizenship test.  She had been worried about it, we reviewed the various questions they might ask, some of which are fairly specific and detailed.  They didn't ask her anything "tough", she said it seemed more about how well she spoke the language, and it was over quickly.

One question as I recall was to name the three major parts of our government.

Does that mean we can deport Tuberville?  ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 26, 2023, 10:35:10 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 26, 2023, 09:58:14 AM

I love the State Fair so there'd be some questions about corny dogs, you'd do just fine.

Fortunately, as an LSU fan, I am an expert on corndogs.  

Voter status ACHIEVED!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 26, 2023, 10:51:15 AM

Quote from: grillrat on October 26, 2023, 10:24:17 AM

Does that mean we can deport Tuberville?  ;)

Back to Auburn??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 26, 2023, 11:36:09 AM

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/395232822_1554943048646017_7624994871489623779_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=GQ9qM3q_Y0IAX_sE3Fz&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBpe9AmMzGVhXhDabdACpyvwv_Hf3gTN8uybTRFLnUxtw&oe=65401337)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 26, 2023, 11:42:22 AM

Smoke Rises Over Capitol Indicating Congress Has Resumed Setting Taxpayers' Money On Fire | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/smoke-rises-over-capitol-indicating-congress-has-resumed-setting-taxpayers-money-on-fire?utm_source=The Babylon Bee)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 26, 2023, 02:00:49 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 26, 2023, 09:48:47 AM

I'm actually permitted to marry people.

Only one has ever asked and I politely declined because I thought the girl was a scary bitch. Of course, I didn't put it that way...

I was right. They lasted 11 months.

A friend up in the Lake Erie Islands got his Pilot/Captain's License and he does tours/charters and evidently that is one of the perks. You can marry people on the Vessel.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 26, 2023, 02:02:54 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 26, 2023, 10:02:30 AM

That's easy.

CIA, FBI, IRS IOU

FIFY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 26, 2023, 02:03:04 PM

Maybe I can marry folks on my Cessna?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 26, 2023, 02:04:02 PM

I don't think it goes for pilots.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 26, 2023, 02:14:02 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 26, 2023, 02:03:04 PM

Maybe I can marry folks on my Cessna?

I thought the crop duster was in mothballs and you were done dodging drones?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 26, 2023, 02:40:06 PM

Yeah, I'm not current at all, haven't been for 15+ years.  I'd need a medical, which would be fine, and a biennial flight review, which I could not pass currently of course, I thought about it, I'd need maybe 5-8 hours of dual with an instructor at $160 an hour.  It's kind of expensive to maintain your currency.  I did send in to get my license replaced, somehow I left it and all my gear back in Cincy.  That's another item or ten, a headset, maps, log book, ...

Not gonna happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 26, 2023, 02:59:31 PM

My buddy was ordained by the internet to marry my wife and I. 

Given the [lack of] religious beliefs of all three of us, there was no need for an actual religious person lol...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 26, 2023, 03:01:38 PM

In France, any wedding takes place at the Marie, or other civil building by a civil procedure.  That's it, many couples may then have a religious ceremony after that.  I prefer that system, it's a civil wedding (leading to a civil marriage is another story).  The religious ceremony is just for show basically and to comply with religious beliefs.

I've attended two, they are elaborate affairs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 26, 2023, 03:19:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 26, 2023, 02:40:06 PM

It's kind of expensive to maintain your currency.

Are you saying it takes a lot of currency to retain your currency?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 26, 2023, 03:32:01 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 26, 2023, 03:01:38 PM

In France, any wedding takes place at the Marie, or other civil building by a civil procedure.  That's it, many couples may then have a religious ceremony after that.  I prefer that system, it's a civil wedding (leading to a civil marriage is another story).  The religious ceremony is just for show basically and to comply with religious beliefs.

I've attended two, they are elaborate affairs.

So in France the only way to get married is if done by the Government? amazing

God bless America

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 26, 2023, 03:33:12 PM

Yes. Works for me. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 26, 2023, 03:35:06 PM

I'm good with the only governmental involvement in my wedding, is the license I have to procure.  Preferably not event that but we can't go backwards I suppose.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 26, 2023, 03:38:13 PM

We were married by some dood we found in the phone book, at a hotel. 30 people maybe.

Turns out the dood was a Jehovah. 

Interesting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 26, 2023, 03:48:38 PM

One of my closest friends is the Methodist minister who married my wife and me.  He was the assistant youth director at my church when I was in high school and we remained best friends thereafter.

He's an amazing dude, an unbelievable character, I could tell you stories about him and you'd think I'm making them all up.

Nowadays he's a retired minister and sports writer, who inherited family oil money and so now he does whatever he wants, including owning a giant mansion in downtown Austin, traveling the world, and most recently writing and producing plays in New York.  Nothing on Broadway yet, but I won't be surprised when it happens.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 26, 2023, 04:41:15 PM

And here we go. Just super.

Iran-backed militants bomb US base in Iraq and declare 'we are ready for a long war' (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/iran-backed-militants-bomb-us-base-in-iraq-and-declare-we-are-ready-for-a-long-war/ar-AA1iUaqM?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=d31619a4bd8f4eedb19834bb1e4dfc68&ei=11)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 26, 2023, 04:42:57 PM

But wait, there's more!

Video shows Chinese jet flying within 10 feet of B-52, U.S. says (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/video-shows-chinese-jet-flying-within-10-feet-of-b-52-u-s-says/ar-AA1iUuDJ?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=0248246d8c2b4ba78a4ee8076ebcd2b2&ei=15)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 26, 2023, 06:41:40 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 26, 2023, 03:32:01 PM

So in France the only way to get married is if done by the Government? amazing

Same thing here. If you don't have a gov't marriage license, you ain't married. 

They've effectively "deputized" clergy to perform the ceremony, but it's the gov't license that determines you get all the benefits of being married. 

You can't just go to your church w/o a license, get "married", and have that recognized anywhere in the US. You might be married in the eyes of God when you die, but you ain't married as far as the US and our 50 states are concerned. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on October 26, 2023, 06:58:13 PM

https://twitter.com/chamath/status/1717668004199330081?t=-76pT8R42_Y9aejUi1QmGg&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 27, 2023, 06:51:04 AM

Yup, the lawyer who married us told me it was a purely unnecesssary "celebration", we were married as soon as we signed that document.  I don't recall the details of that well at all.  So, I  guess it is the same way here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2023, 08:06:15 AM

At its current pace, South Dakota is on pace to have 1 million residents as early as 2030 (909,824 as of July 2022, according to the U.S. Census). While almost 29,000 people chose to leave the Mount Rushmore State last year, even more decided to move in.

An estimated 34,859 people moved into South Dakota from another state last year, according to Census data released earlier this month.


Most didn’t have far to travel. Over 6,900 people relocated from Minnesota last year — that’s more people than from any other state. Minnesota is also the state South Dakota lost the most residents to, according to the Census.

The next-highest source of new residents wasn’t a state at all. Instead, Census estimates show nearly 3,600 people moved to South Dakota from a foreign country. The data set did not specify which countries people immigrated from.

Another nearby state, Iowa, supplied the third-most new South Dakotans at over 2,900. Roughly 2,100 new residents traveled much further to come here, as they moved from Georgia.

Others with short moves included the 2,109 from Nebraska, 1,512 from Wyoming, and 1,363 from Montana.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 28, 2023, 09:01:05 AM

So they found the guy in Maine, dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. Not only were his actions heinous, he's also a coward.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2023, 09:07:07 AM

I would think he was seriously mentally ill.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 28, 2023, 09:14:47 AM

As is often the case, but we don't really have anything in place for these people anymore. They just get lost in the system and then this stuff happens.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2023, 09:34:46 AM

I'd like to see more effort to help folks with mental illness

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2023, 09:44:16 AM

A key problem with treating the mentally ill is a SCOTUS decision making it difficult to "lock" anyone up.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 28, 2023, 09:47:58 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 28, 2023, 09:44:16 AM

A key problem with treating the mentally ill is a SCOTUS decision making it difficult to "lock" anyone up. 

Can you post this decision for us? I can't remember when that happened, or why.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2023, 09:49:37 AM

O'Connor v. Donaldson, 422 U.S. 563 (1975), was a landmark decision (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_landmark_court_decisions_in_the_United_States) of the US Supreme Court (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Supreme_Court) in mental health law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_health_law) ruling that a state cannot constitutionally confine a non-dangerous individual who is capable of surviving safely in freedom by themselves or with the help of willing and responsible family members or friends. Since the trial court jury found, upon ample evidence, that petitioner did so confine respondent, the Supreme Court upheld the trial court's conclusion that petitioner had violated respondent's right to liberty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_liberty).^{[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O'Connor_v._Donaldson#cite_note-findlaw-1)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O'Connor_v._Donaldson#cite_note-2)[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O'Connor_v._Donaldson#cite_note-3)} The case was important in the deinstitutionalization (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalization_in_the_United_States) movement in the United States.^{[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O'Connor_v._Donaldson#cite_note-4)}

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2023, 09:53:52 AM

I understand it may be difficult to treat someone that refuses treatment, but I think a helluva lot more could be done for those seeking treatment or open to the idea, at least at times.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2023, 10:03:56 AM

I've had some experience in this area with a young kid and it's not pretty.  One major issue is that we have little medical abilities to treat much of this beyond things like thorazine.

But if you are not deemed a physical threat to yourself or others, any treatment has to be voluntary.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2023, 11:02:15 AM

most people have had some experience in this area and it's not pretty.  One major issue is that there is no easy "silver bullet" like thorazine.

maybe an effort the like that of developing a COVID vaccine would lead to a step in the direction of improved treatment?

maybe not, but I think it is worth the effort

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 28, 2023, 11:08:57 AM

If the person in question does not WANT the help, there is nothing we or anyone can do.

This event is a fail on may levels. He was in the reserves. He was a firearm instructor. 

He was in an institution in July!!

How was this allowed to happen, for God's sake?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2023, 11:19:22 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 28, 2023, 11:08:57 AM

If the person in question does not WANT the help, there is nothing we or anyone can do.

He was in an institution in July!!

agreed

my point is that he was in an institution in July.
He may not have been willing but, he was in a place to get treatment/help.
Perhaps if there would have been an option for a more helpful treatment this might have been avoided.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 28, 2023, 12:50:55 PM

I heard he recently lost his job, and if so, I don't think it's mental illness at all.

Guy loses his job, freaks out, and says, "fuck it, I'm going to do what I couldn't do before:  I'm going to matter.  People are going to know I exist!"

Goes out, kills a bunch of people, and comes back down to earth, with no step 2 of his plan.  And like 847 said, he's ultimately a coward, and offs himself.
.
I think it's hopelessness. People who can't even keep a shitty job.  People looking at homelessness in the eye.  Men who are invisible to women.  
I give it a 90% chance he kept getting turned down in that sports bar or whatever place.  Or someone talked shit at him and no one backed him up.

Sad, lonely, and hopeless people lashing out isn't mental illness.  It's the sign of a broken society.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2023, 01:10:48 PM

I'm not ready to blame society for the mentally deranged actions of an individual that struggles with mental illness

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 28, 2023, 01:14:28 PM

having lost a job in my prior life one of the first things I wanted to do was not pick up a gun and kill scores of people

this guy had a history of mental illness 

he was not somebody society just 

turned its back on

sometimes the fault lies with the individual themselves and not those around him

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2023, 03:28:38 PM

Another misic festival across the way this weekend, rattling my windows with the bass.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 28, 2023, 03:31:14 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 28, 2023, 01:10:48 PM

I'm not ready to blame society for the mentally deranged actions of an individual that struggles with mental illness

An individual?

Uhh...what?!?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 28, 2023, 03:33:49 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 28, 2023, 01:14:28 PM

having lost a job in my prior life one of the first things I wanted to do was not pick up a gun and kill scores of people

this guy had a history of mental illness

he was not somebody society just

turned its back on

sometimes the fault lies with the individual themselves and not those around him

I doubt that was the first thing he wanted to do, too.  

You guys are focusing on this one person.  I'm considering the epidemic of mass killings.  

Let me ask this:  how many people would it take to be unwell for you to change the label from mental illness to societal problem/cause?
A million?  Ten million?  How many?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 28, 2023, 03:34:40 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 28, 2023, 01:14:28 PM

having lost a job in my prior life one of the first things I wanted to do was not pick up a gun and kill scores of people

One of these days, you'll learn that your personal anecdotes don't really warrant inclusion into these discussions.  I guess it's not today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2023, 03:37:26 PM

I'll lobby for more help with mental illness

you lobby for help with fixing the broken society

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 28, 2023, 03:38:56 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 28, 2023, 03:37:26 PM

I'll lobby for more help with mental illness

you lobby for help with fixing the broken society

Non-answer.
Thanks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2023, 03:47:55 PM

answer to how many folks need to be diagnosed with mental illness?

many more than there are today

100 million?

where are you going with this?
the society in the USA is causing mental illness?

society of western civilization?

Conservatives society?

Religion's affect on society?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 28, 2023, 03:57:11 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 28, 2023, 03:47:55 PM

answer to how many folks need to be diagnosed with mental illness?

Not exactly.

We designate those with radical, extreme thoughts/behaviors as having mental illness, right?
But at some point, there's a tipping point where there are so many people like this, that it's not a special designation, but merely the norm.

Are wife-beaters mentally well?  Are negligent or abusive parents?  Are alcoholics?  Are drug addicts?  Are people who hate their lives 5 days a week and only feel 'normal' 2 days a week mentally well?

My point is that there are roughly 250 million adults in the U.S.  My question was how many of those would it take for you to change your label of problematic people from 'mental illness' to 'societal problem'?

If you include all of the groups of people I listed, you're getting close to 100 million already.  Scoff if you want, but there's a larger problem here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2023, 04:02:10 PM

I agree that there are societal problems

 wife-beaters, negligent or abusive parents,  alcoholics and drug addicts

all problems

not all mentally ill in my opinion

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 28, 2023, 04:23:59 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 28, 2023, 04:02:10 PM

I agree that there are societal problems

 wife-beaters, negligent or abusive parents,  alcoholics and drug addicts

all problems

not all mentally ill in my opinion

If you think of 'mental illness' meaning crazy people, sure.  But all these people shooting a bunch of people aren't all crazy.  It's a crazy act, sure. 
But there's a gray area that bleeds from 'crazy person' to 'crazy act,' and that's the problem, imo.

I personally don't know where a person begins to be 'crazy,' and I don't particularly care.  I care about actions.  
If you hit your spouse, yes, I think that's a crazy act.  A person you profess to love, and you're hitting them?  What?!?
I don't care if they're clinically ill or not, they're committing a crazy act.

When too many people are committing crazy acts, that's not a time to shake your head and offer thoughts and prayers.  It's not a time to shrug and say "mental illness."  
It's time to take stock in the larger problems of the society and make a plan to remedy them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2023, 04:27:02 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 28, 2023, 04:23:59 PM

I don't care if they're clinically ill or not, they're committing a crazy act.

always has been issues with Society

I care if they're clinically ill, BECAUSE those are the vast majority of mass shootings

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 28, 2023, 04:39:27 PM

Source?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2023, 04:44:04 PM

I'm guessing

the recent guy in Maine obviously fits the bill

you Google it

I'll be shocked and eat my posts if it's not true

the press certainly has led me to believe this

and I'd guess those liberals would like to portray a different story 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 28, 2023, 05:24:43 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 28, 2023, 04:39:27 PM

Source?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/family-maine-shooting-suspect-says-mental-health-deteriorated-rapidly-rcna122353

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: DunkingDan on October 28, 2023, 06:06:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 28, 2023, 09:44:16 AM

A key problem with treating the mentally ill is a SCOTUS decision making it difficult to "lock" anyone up. 

Unwillingness by mental health staff to do so is a major issue as well.


Lot more than SCOTUS decision. Laws changed as well that dictate a lot as well as other lower court decisions. This is before you consider who pays the cost, as soon as the insurance runs out they want to kick them out even if they are still manic, hallucinating, etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 28, 2023, 06:08:04 PM

His family are clinical psychiatrists?  

If he started hearing voices saying horrible things when he got powerful hearing aids put in, I'd hate to be captain obvious, buuuuuuut I'd look at the hearing aids.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 28, 2023, 06:10:25 PM

None of this matters, we're not going to fix anything on this board.

Fearless and I had a discussion from different sides and it ended nicely.....at least I thought so.  But I was wrong again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2023, 06:16:05 PM

our discussion ended well

but internet boards  give others a chance to interject their thoughts

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2023, 06:17:03 PM

Quote from: DunkingDan on October 28, 2023, 06:06:57 PM

Unwillingness by mental health staff to do so is a major issue as well.


Lot more than SCOTUS decision. Laws changed as well that dictate a lot as well as other lower court decisions. This is before you consider who pays the cost, as soon as the insurance runs out they want to kick them out even if they are still manic, hallucinating, etc.

it's always about the money
I wish more oney went to help with mental illness

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 29, 2023, 12:54:48 AM

How Latinos pronounce college football teams (say them out loud):

We Cousin Baggers
Nort Cadolina Haheely
Walker Forest Damon Bakers
Geo Gia Boodogs


Maddilan Therapy
Oheo Estay Bookeye

Nebraka Corn Hookers
Clemezone Tiggers
Pissbird Ponthur
You Claw Brooms
Washy Tone Who's Keys
Dookie Blu Debbie
Sadacoosee Orey

Flodida Gatos
Kentookie Wowcat
I Can Sis Rasirbak
Penestate Nitani Leon
Mini Soda Godan Golfers
Saul Cadolina Gameh Coke
Alabama Creamzone Tiday
Oota Ootez
Oh They Gone Duke
You Sexy Trohan

Oh They Gone Estay Big Bird

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2023, 12:01:45 PM

Should Congress have term limits? Researchers broadly say no : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2023/10/29/1207593168/congressional-term-limits-explainer)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2023, 12:02:54 PM

well, perhaps after 20 years

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2023, 12:15:02 PM

Eh, the main thing for me is that it simply isn't going to happen, it's a nonissue, akin to going back to preplayoff bowl games.

Not going to happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 29, 2023, 12:16:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 29, 2023, 12:01:45 PM

Should Congress have term limits? Researchers broadly say no : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2023/10/29/1207593168/congressional-term-limits-explainer)

NPR??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2023, 07:11:29 PM

Quote from: DunkingDan on October 28, 2023, 06:06:57 PM

Unwillingness by mental health staff to do so is a major issue as well.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/397431927_10160263927898611_4650760454280340022_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=mG11IIuw35UAX9j6KL0&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBGRPZ2UZF_r8nAbpWQRbnRLzOdnw9R4zZ2mejTLINpTQ&oe=65438D56)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 29, 2023, 09:42:33 PM

That's what it's all about!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2023, 06:58:35 AM

Like most here, I get U Tube on my TV.  And when I'm bored I pull up some videos talking about my team, and boy there are a lot of them, I watch parts of some of them, usually 2-3 guys yammering on about whatever, rarely insightful at all.  There must be a considerable market for this sort of thing, guys in their basements apparently with fancy looking mikes yammering.

I know several folks here could do this, mostly better than the public ones.  It would be a bit of work.  

I prefer to read stuff than listen, it's easier to "edit", skip around, take a glance and see if I want to read the whole thing.  So thanks for all the good "analysis" around here, stuff like "remaining undefeated teams" etc.

I was musing Sat. morning how years ago I watched Game Day pretty often, then I found I'd have it on but barely listening, maybe if they talked about my team I would, then only if they were on my campus, then I just skipped it entirely.  So much of this is entertainment of course, I liken it to our "news" outlets.  You have to get clicks.  $$$$

The way of the world.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 30, 2023, 07:59:20 AM

I think that’s the point of game day. It’s something nice to have on at your tailgate. Or at the gym when you’re working out in the morning.

I know some people watch it religiously, which I don’t understand. The idea of sitting through that unless I was an aggregator seems very pointless. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 30, 2023, 08:00:30 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 29, 2023, 12:15:02 PM

Eh, the main thing for me is that it simply isn't going to happen, it's a nonissue, akin to going back to preplayoff bowl games.

Not going to happen.

If it did, we would be up in arms in like three years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 30, 2023, 08:04:38 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on October 29, 2023, 09:42:33 PM

That's what it's all about!

What if it really is what it's all about?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2023, 08:22:59 AM

Another "funny thing" is rankings of course.  I'm not really against them, not that it matters, but they don't matter.  The initial CFP ranking is meaningless beyond giving a hint as to what they appear to value.

And notice how computer rankings, once the rage, are almost ignored completely now.  ESPN has this FPI thing which is often bizarre (and ignored).  The show tomorrow will get some decent "rankings" (eyeballs) and discussion about a thing that doesn't matter really.  I understand that whoever is Numero Uno gets a probable shot with a loss if it's not critical.  UGA could lose again in the SEC CG perhaps and get a 3/4 seed (again).

Anyway, it's all a bit amusing at times, including the core fact that "we" care about how our team does.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2023, 08:26:28 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/xf8NUgT.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 30, 2023, 09:11:30 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 30, 2023, 08:22:59 AM

Another "funny thing" is rankings of course.  I'm not really against them, not that it matters, but they don't matter.  The initial CFP ranking is meaningless beyond giving a hint as to what they appear to value.

same as our very own "Big Ten Power Rankings" here

they change from week to week depending on the latest wins and losses

they certainly don't matter, but they are somewhat interesting and/or entertaining

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2023, 09:23:52 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 30, 2023, 09:11:30 AM

they certainly don't matter, but they are somewhat interesting and/or entertaining

Yes, but these are for internal discussion and consumption, nobody gets upset about them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 30, 2023, 09:40:50 AM

as long as Afroman doesn't check them too closely ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 30, 2023, 10:07:25 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 30, 2023, 08:22:59 AM

Another "funny thing" is rankings of course.  I'm not really against them, not that it matters, but they don't matter.  The initial CFP ranking is meaningless beyond giving a hint as to what they appear to value.

And notice how computer rankings, once the rage, are almost ignored completely now.  ESPN has this FPI thing which is often bizarre (and ignored).  The show tomorrow will get some decent "rankings" (eyeballs) and discussion about a thing that doesn't matter really.  I understand that whoever is Numero Uno gets a probable shot with a loss if it's not critical.  UGA could lose again in the SEC CG perhaps and get a 3/4 seed (again).

Anyway, it's all a bit amusing at times, including the core fact that "we" care about how our team does.

Those ranking remain “content.” They matter in as far as someone might have feelings about them. And you have shows and writers who cater to folks with feelings, so it’s sort of a thing.

FPI is interesting. I wonder if they got more translatable metrics, or if the proliferation of taking about gambling made FPI less of a point.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 30, 2023, 12:09:49 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 30, 2023, 06:58:35 AM

I prefer to read stuff than listen, it's easier to "edit", skip around, take a glance and see if I want to read the whole thing.  So thanks for all the good "analysis" around here, stuff like "remaining undefeated teams" etc.

Yeah... I realize I'm an outlier these days because I'd rather read something than watch a video about it. And certainly don't like "listening" to something without video. 

About the only time I seek out videos on something is when it's a how-to type of video. I.e. how to fix something, build something, cook something, etc. That's the area where visuals help. For nearly everything else, I'd rather read. 

Quote

I was musing Sat. morning how years ago I watched Game Day pretty often, then I found I'd have it on but barely listening, maybe if they talked about my team I would, then only if they were on my campus, then I just skipped it entirely.

I put it on the TV on Saturday morning. Because there's nothing else on worth watching. Usually I'm sitting on my computer or reading a book. It's background noise. 

At least until the last few minutes, b/c my wife is always excited to see the Corso headgear. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 30, 2023, 12:14:22 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 30, 2023, 12:09:49 PM

I put it on the TV on Saturday morning. Because there's nothing else on worth watching. Usually I'm sitting on my computer or reading a book. It's background noise.

FOX's Big Noon Kickoff is a better show these days, imo.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 30, 2023, 01:16:41 PM

yup, I don't need background noise

and unfortunately, Nebraska gets NO airtime since they haven't had a winning record in a decade or so

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 30, 2023, 10:47:21 PM

I don't think people could handle the computers once they realized that some of them held SOS in such high value that your "rating" would go down when you played a weak opponent, no matter how badly you beat them. 
I think that was mostly due to altered computer rankings, bastardizing the margin of victory component.  I really just wished they left the computers alone instead of compromising them here and there the whole reign of the BCS. 
.
Anyway, the humans then did the same thing in 2014, with TCU destroying some shit team 55-3 and moving them down 3 spots - from IN the playoff to OUT of the playoff.  That was fucked up.
.
As far as Gameday, I think it's just "football talk" noise when you're in a football mood. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 31, 2023, 04:59:31 AM

I suspect a lot/most folks who have GD on zone out until they talk about their team.  Then they might take umbrage if someone says something adverse.  As if.

Long ago I had a subscription to Sports Ill, I think I mostly just read about my team, and maybe a funny short item.  How many folks have Nat Geos stacked up in he basement?

I recall the pleasure of morning coffee with the Charlotte Observer back in the day, it was a pretty good paper I thought.  A tradition.  Back in 1977.  Tempis fugit.

I did some dumb things and mostly got away with them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2023, 08:17:27 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 28, 2023, 06:08:04 PM

His family are clinical psychiatrists? 

If he started hearing voices saying horrible things when he got powerful hearing aids put in, I'd hate to be captain obvious, buuuuuuut I'd look at the hearing aids.

LEWISTON, Maine (AP) — Five months before the deadliest mass shooting in Maine’s history, the gunman’s family alerted the local sheriff that they were becoming concerned about his deteriorating mental health while he had access to firearms, authorities said Monday.

After the alert, the Sagadohoc County Sheriff’s Office reached out to officials of Robert Card’s Army Reserve unit, which assured deputies that they would speak to Card and make sure he got medical attention, Sheriff Joel Merry said.

The family’s concern about Card’s mental health dated back to early this year before the sheriff’s office was contacted in May, marking the earliest in a string of interactions that police had with the 40-year-old firearms instructor before he marched a Lewiston bowling alley and a bar last Wednesday, killing 18 people and wounding 13 others.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 31, 2023, 08:26:44 AM

Why don't Canada, the UK, and Australia have mass shootings by mentally ill people?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2023, 08:39:34 AM

I'm guessing they do

It took only 11 months for Ontario to experience its next mass shooting after the one in Vaughan in December 2022.

Sault Ste. Marie residents are contending with the loss of five lives in Ontario’s latest mass shooting on Oct. 24. Police say the shooting was a case of intimate partner violence.

A man allegedly killed three young children and one woman, and wounded another woman, before taking his own life. The shooter has been identified as the father of the children.

https://theconversation.com/the-latest-mass-shooting-in-sault-ste-marie-highlights-ontarios-epidemic-of-gender-based-violence-216605 (https://theconversation.com/the-latest-mass-shooting-in-sault-ste-marie-highlights-ontarios-epidemic-of-gender-based-violence-216605)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 31, 2023, 09:28:25 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 30, 2023, 10:47:21 PM

 
I think that was mostly due to altered computer rankings, bastardizing the margin of victory component.  I really just wished they left the computers alone instead of compromising them here and there the whole reign of the BCS. 

This.  Pick a methodology and have the courage of your convictions to stick with it.  Nothing says "invalid" like constantly changing your formula to make it come out more like people wished it would've come out.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2023, 09:52:03 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 31, 2023, 08:26:44 AM

Why don't Canada, the UK, and Australia have mass shootings by mentally ill people?

Well, they do have mass killings, and it's not just with guns, which don't pull their own triggers. The same goes for the US.

We only hear about mass killings when a gun(s) is involved.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 31, 2023, 09:52:56 AM

This is what happened on back when "we" concocted our own computer poll (with ftbobs).  It was simply, and goofy, at first, so "we" modified it.  Why?  To make it come out more like human polls, or what we thought was right.

This is often the curse of computer models.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2023, 10:14:54 AM

we have AI now

what could go wrong?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2023, 10:18:03 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 31, 2023, 10:14:54 AM

we have AI now

what could go wrong?

Alot of people with garbage degrees lose their jobs (assuming they have a job)?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 31, 2023, 10:18:38 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 31, 2023, 09:52:56 AM

This is what happened on back when "we" concocted our own computer poll (with ftbobs).  It was simply, and goofy, at first, so "we" modified it.  Why?  To make it come out more like human polls, or what we thought was right.

This is often the curse of computer models.

Mr. PacTen used to have a computer model poll as well, which was as good as anything else, for what it was trying to accomplish.  

Pick a philosophy of how teams should be rank-ordered, justify it, figure out how to implement it, and then stick with it.  Six different BCS computers had six different methodologies with six different results, largely because the philosophies of the designer were different.  And that was fine.  

I don't even mind some tweaking...most things need tweaking as you test them for validity and realize a model has deficiencies that aren't hitting what you're aiming for. 

But fundamentally changing the goal of the model only undermines its own usefulness and admits that your philosophy must have been crap to start with.  Which was the problem with the overall BCS formula.  Every time it did something the pollsters didn't like, they changed it so that it would've come out like the pollsters wanted.  Why even bother with a BCS formula, then?  It would've been more honest to just have polls. 

Which is basically what we have now in the playoff committee, whose methodology, best as I can tell, is 1) Whatever we feel like, 2) Whatever makes for the most entertaining tv draw.  

Well.....now we're gonna have 12 playoff teams, which combined with NIL and xfer portal means we just have another NFL.  Yay.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2023, 10:19:53 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2023, 10:18:03 AM

Alot of people with garbage degrees lose their jobs (assuming they have a job)?

you mean like 90% of the talkin heads in sports?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 31, 2023, 10:23:01 AM

This probably won't surprise you, but I'm actually an early proto-version of ChatGPT.  Designers have been testing me out on this board for years.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 31, 2023, 10:24:30 AM

To make the inevitable early mistakes and incoherent output more plausible, it was determined that I should be posed as an LSU fan.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on October 31, 2023, 10:24:47 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 31, 2023, 10:23:01 AM

This probably won't surprise you, but I'm actually an early proto-version of ChatGPT.  Designers have been testing me out on this board for years. 

VERY early ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2023, 10:26:23 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 31, 2023, 10:23:01 AM

This probably won't surprise you, but I'm actually an early proto-version of ChatGPT.  Designers have been testing me out on this board for years. 

Had I not met you a few times and shaken your hand, I might believe this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 31, 2023, 11:46:22 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 31, 2023, 10:23:01 AM

This probably won't surprise you, but I'm actually an early proto-version of ChatGPT.  Designers have been testing me out on this board for years. 

Are you the version "Crap for Brains" or the latest version "Dont Know Shit" ?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on October 31, 2023, 12:31:49 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 31, 2023, 10:23:01 AM

This probably won't surprise you, but I'm actually an early proto-version of ChatGPT.  Designers have been testing me out on this board for years. 

I didn't know ChatGPT ran on corn dogs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 31, 2023, 12:44:52 PM

Corndogs and gumbo.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2023, 12:50:32 PM

So, if I don't like corn dogs or Gumbo, is a trip to Louisiana out?

Because I don't like either. Those and red BEANS and rice. WTF is that?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 31, 2023, 12:53:16 PM

How can anyone not like gumbo????

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 31, 2023, 12:59:36 PM

Quote from: utee94 on October 31, 2023, 12:53:16 PM

How can anyone not like gumbo????

thats unAmerican

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2023, 01:02:14 PM

Give me a good Cioppino or Bouillabaisse any time over gumbo.

Sorry not sorry.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 31, 2023, 01:02:23 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2023, 12:50:32 PM

So, if I don't like corn dogs or Gumbo, is a trip to Louisiana out?

Because I don't like either. Those and red BEANS and rice. WTF is that?

:-(

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 31, 2023, 01:08:04 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2023, 01:02:14 PM

Give me a good Cioppino or Bouillabaisse any time over gumbo.

Sorry not sorry.

I like all of them.  No need to choose.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2023, 01:56:38 PM

I don't see the point of putting rice into a pot of soup.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on October 31, 2023, 01:59:02 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2023, 01:56:38 PM

I don't see the point of putting rice into a pot of soup.

we serve ours over rice and add more seafood then just shrimp

course thats just us

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: rolltidefan on October 31, 2023, 02:04:48 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2023, 12:50:32 PM

So, if I don't like corn dogs or Gumbo, is a trip to Louisiana out?

Because I don't like either. Those and red BEANS and rice. WTF is that?

(https://media.tenor.com/dWF0J1tvAiIAAAAC/rob-schneider-waterboy.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2023, 02:46:41 PM

Gen Z meets real world. I mean, LIKE real world. LIKE.


One young American TikTok user recently took to the social site to showcase her stress and despair over not having time "to do anything" after working her 9-to-5 job.


"I want to shower, eat my dinner and go to sleep. I don't have time or energy to cook my dinner either. Like, I don't have energy to work out, like that's out the window. Like I'm so upset," the young woman says in the now-viral TikTok. "Nothing to do with my job at all, but just like the 9-to-5 schedule in general is crazy."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 31, 2023, 03:46:31 PM

Quote from: rolltidefan on October 31, 2023, 02:04:48 PM

(https://media.tenor.com/dWF0J1tvAiIAAAAC/rob-schneider-waterboy.gif)

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tenor.com%2Fimages%2Ff5d5b18f6a80345af63d1f7ed13d26d9%2Ftenor.gif&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=d380f34a10a551ddcd2611b71ea4eec1b217bba70ace5e74430a9bbb3d608eba&ipo=images) (https://media.tenor.com/images/f5d5b18f6a80345af63d1f7ed13d26d9/tenor.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 31, 2023, 03:54:04 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2023, 02:46:41 PM

Gen Z meets real world. I mean, LIKE real world. LIKE.


One young American TikTok user recently took to the social site to showcase her stress and despair over not having time "to do anything" after working her 9-to-5 job.


"I want to shower, eat my dinner and go to sleep. I don't have time or energy to cook my dinner either. Like, I don't have energy to work out, like that's out the window. Like I'm so upset," the young woman says in the now-viral TikTok. "Nothing to do with my job at all, but just like the 9-to-5 schedule in general is crazy."

Yeah, I heard that girl on our morning radio show last week. 

And she thinks it's bad now... Just wait for kids... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2023, 03:56:24 PM

Like, kids?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 31, 2023, 04:29:30 PM

Fur sure,fur sure - the more things change the more they stay the same

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 31, 2023, 04:37:06 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2023, 01:56:38 PM

I don't see the point of putting rice into a pot of soup.

Who on earth puts rice into a pot of soup?

When served, some folks put rice in the bowl and pour the gumbo over it.

Some folks don't.

Are you sure you actually know what gumbo is?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 31, 2023, 04:50:20 PM

Quote from: utee94 on October 31, 2023, 04:37:06 PM

Who on earth puts rice into a pot of soup?

Minnesota wild rice soup
(https://i.imgur.com/Fpe42v1.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on October 31, 2023, 04:51:02 PM

This reminds me that it's almost congee weather

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on October 31, 2023, 04:54:38 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 31, 2023, 04:50:20 PM

Minnesota wild rice soup
(https://i.imgur.com/Fpe42v1.png)

Ok, I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2023, 05:53:00 PM

it's filler

comes from poor folk and the dust bowl and the great depression

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 31, 2023, 06:10:44 PM

Again, it goes to my theory that poorer cultures produce some damn delicious food because of working around their limited means. 

Rich people can just buy good ingredients and let them shine. Poor people can't afford good ingredients so they have to doctor it up to make it taste good. 

The end result is that poorer cultures make more use of spice and flavoring and cooking methods to get the most out of it, and end up with some gems. 

The ingredients needed to make red beans and rice are cheap. If you look at this recipe (https://www.budgetbytes.com/louisiana-red-beans-rice/), it looks like they quote it as making 6 servings for about 10 bucks. Even to the extent they add sausage, you can see the recipe is designed to stretch that sausage to feed many. But it's packed full of flavor and hearty enough to coat your insides. 

It may not win any Michelin stars, but if you're trying to meet a tight budget and feed a family, you at least want to make something that tastes good. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 31, 2023, 06:40:15 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on October 31, 2023, 11:46:22 AM

Are you the version "Crap for Brains" or the latest version "Dont Know Shit" ?

:57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2023, 06:41:35 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 31, 2023, 06:10:44 PM

Again, it goes to my theory that poorer cultures produce some damn delicious food because of working around their limited means.

Rich people can just buy good ingredients and let them shine. Poor people can't afford good ingredients so they have to doctor it up to make it taste good.

The end result is that poorer cultures make more use of spice and flavoring and cooking methods to get the most out of it, and end up with some gems.

smoking brisket is a prime example

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 31, 2023, 06:45:22 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW7m6G9evRU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW7m6G9evRU)

On gumbo:
"It's a little like religion and a lot like sex, 
you should never know when you're gonna get it next!"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 31, 2023, 06:58:02 PM

Quote from: utee94 on October 31, 2023, 04:54:38 PM

Ok, I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

Quit eating your own offerings,ask Bwarb for tips,maybe 847 - and make sure you eat it over the sink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 31, 2023, 07:12:14 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on October 31, 2023, 06:41:35 PM

smoking brisket is a prime example

Yeah, I was going to expound that BBQ in general is a prime example. You take a bunch of cuts of meat that were usually scrap or grinder fodder because they were so tough, and you've turned it into an entire category of cuisine that people go nuts over. 

Brisket is cheap as hell, when compared to tenderloin, ribeye, strip, etc. Even cheap compared to tri tip, flank, and even chuck roast, another tough meat--largely supply and demand on that last one because chuck roast is used so often for braised / crock pot roasts.

So people who can't afford the nice cuts still want to eat meat, and they learn that cooking low and slow over woodfired pits turns it into something that's pretty damned remarkable.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 31, 2023, 07:16:28 PM

Cooking meat that requires 10 hours in order to be tasty is the thing.  People of means don't want to wait (by and large, over time, etc).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on October 31, 2023, 07:23:21 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 31, 2023, 02:46:41 PM

Gen Z meets real world. I mean, LIKE real world. LIKE.


One young American TikTok user recently took to the social site to showcase her stress and despair over not having time "to do anything" after working her 9-to-5 job.


"I want to shower, eat my dinner and go to sleep. I don't have time or energy to cook my dinner either. Like, I don't have energy to work out, like that's out the window. Like I'm so upset," the young woman says in the now-viral TikTok. "Nothing to do with my job at all, but just like the 9-to-5 schedule in general is crazy."

Ohhh, this is some nice work of the capitalistic nature of media. Folks can kvetch about clickbait, but they really want the media to make them feel something. In this case, righteous and special. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 31, 2023, 07:40:14 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 31, 2023, 07:16:28 PM

Cooking meat that requires 10 hours in order to be tasty is the thing.  People of means don't want to wait (by and large, over time, etc).

Well it's a weird thing.

As you've discussed previously, one of the things the less well off have less of is free time--the schedules of work/etc to make ends meet, potentially of more difficult commuting scenarios (public transit rather than a car), etc can lead to having less time for this kind of stuff. For many on the poorer end of the spectrum, just getting a healthful meal on the table for a family, in a rush, is a big deal. 

Whereas those of means can often devote this kind of time. I'm not in a job where I am working weekends, so if I choose to smoke a brisket or do some slabs of ribs for a weekend meal I can absolutely do it. My wife and I both work, but for many in our demographic they are a one-income household where as soon as the kids are home from school the stay-at-home parent can get to cooking. 

I don't generally try to, well, generalize. Some poor people have lots of time, and some richer people have none. For some it's the opposite. 

But my point was more about the cuisine pressures that come from the lower-income groups who are forced into trying to make cheap ingredients into something delicious. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 31, 2023, 09:35:25 PM

Jake is ready to greet trick or treaters...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on October 31, 2023, 09:41:57 PM

Prolly Cujo after some of your QUE with hot peppers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 31, 2023, 09:44:36 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 31, 2023, 07:40:14 PM

Well it's a weird thing.

As you've discussed previously, one of the things the less well off have less of is free time--the schedules of work/etc to make ends meet, potentially of more difficult commuting scenarios (public transit rather than a car), etc can lead to having less time for this kind of stuff. For many on the poorer end of the spectrum, just getting a healthful meal on the table for a family, in a rush, is a big deal.

Whereas those of means can often devote this kind of time. I'm not in a job where I am working weekends, so if I choose to smoke a brisket or do some slabs of ribs for a weekend meal I can absolutely do it. My wife and I both work, but for many in our demographic they are a one-income household where as soon as the kids are home from school the stay-at-home parent can get to cooking.

I don't generally try to, well, generalize. Some poor people have lots of time, and some richer people have none. For some it's the opposite.

But my point was more about the cuisine pressures that come from the lower-income groups who are forced into trying to make cheap ingredients into something delicious.

I was thinking more 19th century, lol.  Back when most of the foods we're mentioning were being born of necessity.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 01, 2023, 07:13:37 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 31, 2023, 07:23:21 PM

Ohhh, this is some nice work of the capitalistic nature of media. Folks can kvetch about clickbait, but they really want the media to make them feel something. In this case, righteous and special.

???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2023, 07:50:29 AM

One fairly common FB meme is something about SS not being an entitlement.  Is that term somehow perjorative?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 01, 2023, 07:56:20 AM

Pejorative? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 01, 2023, 08:08:39 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 31, 2023, 06:10:44 PM

Again, it goes to my theory that poorer cultures produce some damn delicious food because of working around their limited means.

Rich people can just buy good ingredients and let them shine. Poor people can't afford good ingredients so they have to doctor it up to make it taste good.

The end result is that poorer cultures make more use of spice and flavoring and cooking methods to get the most out of it, and end up with some gems.

The ingredients needed to make red beans and rice are cheap. If you look at this recipe (https://www.budgetbytes.com/louisiana-red-beans-rice/), it looks like they quote it as making 6 servings for about 10 bucks. Even to the extent they add sausage, you can see the recipe is designed to stretch that sausage to feed many. But it's packed full of flavor and hearty enough to coat your insides.

It may not win any Michelin stars, but if you're trying to meet a tight budget and feed a family, you at least want to make something that tastes good.

A couple of years ago, I made a week long trip to Louisiana with a friend to visit some of his relatives. We stopped at his cousins house outside of Shreveport and she had just made a big pot of red beans and rice. Having never tried it before, I was curious. But I can tell you, it was probably one of the best meals I had on that trip.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 01, 2023, 08:14:15 AM

Quote from: utee94 on October 31, 2023, 04:37:06 PM

Who on earth puts rice into a pot of soup?

When served, some folks put rice in the bowl and pour the gumbo over it.

Some folks don't.

Are you sure you actually know what gumbo is?

I've only ever seen served with rice in it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2023, 08:17:16 AM

Chicken and rice soup can be excellent.  I like beef barley, but for some reason beef and rice sounds weird, probably due to the Barley Lobby.

I can't think of another use for barley beyond animal feed.

John Barleycorn?  

"We" use a lot of starch things in our foods.  Starch and cellulose are quite similar in one way, and critically different in another.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2023, 08:24:25 AM

Stanley Druckenmiller says government needs to stop spending like 'drunken sailors,' cut entitlements (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/01/stanley-druckenmiller-says-government-needs-to-stop-spending-like-drunken-sailors-cut-entitlements.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2023, 08:28:07 AM

one of the entitlements being SS?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2023, 08:30:04 AM

One of the world’s largest winemakers, Australia’s Treasury Wine Estates (TWE), has acquired a California vineyard for $1 billion that it hopes to make the linchpin in its efforts to enter the U.S. premium market.

https://fortune.com/2023/10/31/australian-winemaker-twe-winery-vinyard-acquisition-daou/ (https://fortune.com/2023/10/31/australian-winemaker-twe-winery-vinyard-acquisition-daou/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2023, 08:43:50 AM

Daou makes pretty good stuff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 01, 2023, 08:44:12 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 01, 2023, 08:28:07 AM

one of the entitlements being SS?

It's only an entitlement if you get it and never worked. For the rest of us, it's just a return of our own money with zero interest.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2023, 08:47:19 AM

I figure an entitlement is simply something to which one is entitled.  An annuity, an insurance payment, SS, a tax refund, even welfare.  The rules are out there for whatever and if they favor you with payments, it's an entitlement.  Somehow the term became a negative.

I could get back more in SS than I paid into it, unadjusted for inflation it's probable if I live long enough.  I figured I was paying into it so my parents would draw their share.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2023, 09:10:31 AM

Only Newsom can go to China and embarrass himself this badly | The Hill (https://thehill.com/opinion/education/4285472-only-gavin-newsom-can-go-to-china-and-embarrass-himself-that-badly/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 01, 2023, 09:54:19 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/g2GTrC2.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2023, 10:16:48 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 01, 2023, 08:17:16 AM

I can't think of another use for barley beyond animal feed.

I can think of a pretty damn good use of barley...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2023, 10:21:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 01, 2023, 08:43:50 AM

Daou makes pretty good stuff.

When I went to Daou, I wasn't overly impressed with their stuff. Their grounds are absolutely amazing, and the winery is perched on top of a hill with some of the best views in Paso Robles. But during the tasting, I honestly didn't really feel that the wine was all that great. The only bottle that I'd consider purchasing wasn't worth the price they wanted for it. 

I do know they are the winery behind Pessimist and other labels that are pretty popular, so I can see why they'd be primed for a buyout. Especially for the stated purpose (getting a foothold in the US market with distribution/etc). But it reminds me a little of someone making a "splash" purchase like Constellation Brands did with Ballast Point brewery during the heyday of the craft beer boom. It won't surprise me if this doesn't end up panning out and being worth a billion dollars when we look at it down the road...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 01, 2023, 10:24:59 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2023, 10:16:48 AM

I can think of a pretty damn good use of barley...

As long as it has a malty base you are on the right track

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2023, 10:30:39 AM

A bottle of Daou at Costco here is $20, and I think it's a good value there.  I have not had any of their higher end stuff.  I USUALLY don't think a $200 bottle is really that much better than a $40.  Diminishing returns etc.  A properly aged Insignia is however pretty larruping.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 01, 2023, 10:32:11 AM

Daou is $19 at Total Wine. We get it sometimes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2023, 11:04:12 AM

Yeah, not saying Daou is bad, of course. Just wasn't impressed enough by the smaller-batch things we were served in their tasting. The one I liked most was selling for about $80/bottle, and I didn't like it that much. 

Heck, the only one that my wife really liked was the rosé (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosé) they were serving when people arrived b/c it was a very hot day. She doesn't normally like rosé much but figured we'd buy a little of that... And they told us they don't sell it at the winery--but you can buy it at the Albertson's grocery store in town! :57:

So they have their bespoke on-premises wines and they have their high production wines. I think the high production wines are probably a much better quality/value proposition. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2023, 12:51:14 PM

I find my taste in wine varies, sometimes back and forth, and there is some variability bottle to bottle in the same year.  I usually get a case of wine at Tower (or more) as they confer a 10% discount (Costco does not).  I find I may like a wine and pick up a case and over time find it's not that great, still quaffable but not transcendent.

I usually look at some of the $10 or so types, I find Josh to be a decent label in that range.  I may snag a $20-40 for a weekend here or if we expect company.  I have not bought anything over $50 other than Champagne in eons.  I have some stashed away that probably need drinking by now.  I used to buy some $100 types and lay them down, which is fine, but then I'd never drink them.  Then I find them and discover I bought it in 2002 and it's really past due.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2023, 01:47:15 PM

Yeah, our typical wine comes from Beverages & More (BevMo), where between case sales, their regular promotions, etc, there's always some deal. My wife's regular wines are a Chardonnay from a winery called Unruly (which is a house BevMo brand) that ends up being $8/bottle and a cab from The Buccaneer (possibly also a house brand?) at $10.50/bottle. She'll have a couple slightly more expensive bottles rotated in here or there, but that's the bulk of it. And most days I'm drinking beer, not wine. 

We only get into pricier bottles when we're doing wine trips. And then those bottles are the ones we break out when we're cooking something fancier that pairs well with wine, on the days when I decide to drink wine instead. The biggest issue we've had is that we've often had the low-end (those listed above), the mid-grade (reds in the $20-40 range), and the high end (bottles in the $50+ range) and we'd almost never drink the top end. Since I keep the low end stocked and the top end rarely would be opened, we'd constantly be hollowing out that mid-grade range. So we've been trying to be better about being willing to open those nicer bottles. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 01, 2023, 01:54:36 PM

My wife has a tendency to open the higher end bottles to finish the night. 

The exact opposite of what should be done, of course.

It's like starting with JW Red and finishing with JW Blue. That's just dumb.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 01, 2023, 01:58:41 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 01, 2023, 01:54:36 PM

My wife has a tendency to open the higher end bottles to finish the night.

The exact opposite of what should be done, of course.

It's like starting with JW Red and finishing with JW Blue. That's just dumb.

Same here.  I typically get ahead of this by ensuring that *I* am the one selecting the next bottle.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 01, 2023, 02:17:01 PM

She has this little guy sitting on her shoulder.

His name is Mr. Fuck It and he says that to her all the time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2023, 02:22:15 PM

and she listens

good for her

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2023, 02:25:12 PM

I need to improve at enjoying some of the finer things more often

had a nice dry aged strip steak at this place last night.......

https://firebirdsrestaurants.com/locations (https://firebirdsrestaurants.com/locations)

seems to be a decent chain

of course I was on the company tab

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2023, 02:30:45 PM

I stopped dining out at fast food and anything like Applbies years back.  If we go out, it's to a decent place.  I took my kids to places like Bob Evans fairly often just to not have to cook for them.  We have some pretty good options around us, except no French.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2023, 02:33:16 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 01, 2023, 02:25:12 PM

I need to improve at enjoying some of the finer things more often

had a nice dry aged strip steak at this place last night.......

https://firebirdsrestaurants.com/locations (https://firebirdsrestaurants.com/locations)

seems to be a decent chain

of course I was on the company tab

BTW I just looked it up to see the menu and locations (if there was anything out here), and noticed that the menu said 21-day-aged... And that's a little ambiguous, so I googled and apparently one of the restaurant owners confirmed they're wet aged, not dry aged. 

https://www.yelp.com/questions/firebirds-wood-fired-grill-is-steak-dry-aged/MzzQrVZF9VT98RzbUI993Q

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2023, 02:39:54 PM

hmmm, dry aged has seemed to be more common in these parts so I didn't ask last night.
I did ask the server a couple questions about the steaks and menu, she didn't have much for answers.

looking back, the steak didn't have that noteworthy dry aged flavor.  I should have guessed it was wet aged.  I assumed it was because it was 21-day aged and not 30 or more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2023, 02:57:23 PM

I'm sure the price is often an indicator as well :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: LetsGoPeay on November 01, 2023, 02:57:38 PM

I like to patronize local wineries and will almost always stay away from big brands. My favorites in my area are Belgian Horse (Middletown, IN), Brown County Winery (Nashville, IN), and Oliver (Bloomington, IN). Oliver has really blown up and I might have to exclude them if they keep that crap up. I guess I'm a wine hipster.

We do the same for restaurants. We steadfastly refuse to go to any chain and will go to a local place as a rule. This is doubly important for pizza. There's a place called Jack's Pizza that's in a very rough part of the east side of Indy that is fantastic. The only time we do a chain restaurant is if it's a quick stop on a road trip or if someone wants to meet us there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 01, 2023, 03:13:20 PM

It’s not too early to order my Great Lakes Christmas Ale, is it?

Good.  Just did!  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2023, 03:16:17 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2023, 02:57:23 PM

I'm sure the price is often an indicator as well :57:

well, obviously there will be some shrinkage while aging
I assume wet aging retains more water weight, not certain

I've done wet aging in my fridge
I leave the dry aging to folks with walk in lockers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 01, 2023, 03:20:37 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 01, 2023, 03:16:17 PM

well, obviously there will be some shrinkage while aging
I assume wet aging retains more water weight, not certain

I've done wet aging in my fridge
I leave the dry aging to folks with walk in lockers

Tell Mike I said howdy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2023, 03:21:27 PM

will do

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2023, 03:48:55 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 01, 2023, 03:16:17 PM

well, obviously there will be some shrinkage while aging
I assume wet aging retains more water weight, not certain

I've done wet aging in my fridge
I leave the dry aging to folks with walk in lockers

Yeah, wet aging retains pretty much the entirety of the weight. I've really only done wet aging with whole packer brisket, because it's rare that I get full cryo packages with most other cuts of beef. 

I did use the Umai dry aging bags as an experiment once. I thought it worked "fine", and didn't kill anyone. But I don't think I was working with a high enough quality cut of beef to feel like I ended up with a game-changer. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 01, 2023, 04:10:21 PM

Isn't the point of the aging to concentrate the beef flavor, which is what happens when the water dissipates, during the dry aging process?

So if wet aging doesn't shrink the product and concentrate the flavor, then what is its purpose?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2023, 04:18:32 PM

the mold, enzymes, stuff helps breakdown tissues and tenderize the meat as well

kinda like low temp smokin

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2023, 05:10:44 PM

Yep. I don't think wet-aging is nearly as impactful to the product as dry-aging. But it can help with things like tenderness, which is why understand a lot of BBQ cooks like to wet-age brisket for a few weeks. 

Only thing is that it has to be in the original cryo or you risk spoilage. 

Question... Has anyone ever tried the faux dry aging trick with fish sauce? I haven't yet but have been curious... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 01, 2023, 05:19:02 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 01, 2023, 04:18:32 PM

the mold, enzymes, stuff helps breakdown tissues and tenderize the meat as well

kinda like low temp smokin

So mold instead of smoke? - stay on the back 9 with your bud fat and let 94 tend the fire

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 01, 2023, 05:20:11 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2023, 05:10:44 PM

Question... Has anyone ever tried the faux dry aging trick with fish sauce? I haven't yet but have been curious...

Shooting for surf and turf taking that short cut.Sounds like a good way to ruin a Ribeye

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 01, 2023, 05:24:49 PM

I bet that fish sauce would be pretty stellar. Lots of flavor. An Oscar topping tips it in.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2023, 05:28:49 PM

I guess maybe at some point I should try it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on November 01, 2023, 05:37:46 PM

Expensive wine is wasted on me.  I can't tell the difference between a $10 bottle of wine and a $200 bottle

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 01, 2023, 05:58:54 PM

Pitmasters have been NOT wet aging briskets for generations and turned out delicious product.  I'm not sold on it.  

But lots of the modern pitmasters seem to believe in it.  To each his own.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2023, 06:25:07 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on November 01, 2023, 05:37:46 PM

Expensive wine is wasted on me.  I can't tell the difference between a $10 bottle of wine and a $200 bottle

well, with a handle like Riffraff........ not surprising

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2023, 06:32:38 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on November 01, 2023, 05:37:46 PM

Expensive wine is wasted on me.  I can't tell the difference between a $10 bottle of wine and a $200 bottle

I hear this a lot from folks who usually have never had a $200 bottle.  I used to do a blind tasting with wines ranging from $5 ti $100 with folks.  Many were surprised at how good the latter wine was.  It really doesn't require some unusual experience or palette to discriminate.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2023, 06:49:43 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on November 01, 2023, 05:37:46 PM

Expensive wine is wasted on me.  I can't tell the difference between a $10 bottle of wine and a $200 bottle

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 01, 2023, 06:32:38 PM

I hear this a lot from folks who usually have never had a $200 bottle.  I used to do a blind tasting with wines ranging from $5 ti $100 with folks.  Many were surprised at how good the latter wine was.  It really doesn't require some unusual experience or palette to discriminate.

I've quite often found that price and whether or not I like a wine don't correlate very well. I like what I like. Sometimes I find a $25 bottle that I love.

Back in the old days I went to Napa to Beringer, and did their specialty tasting. I was a big fan of their Knights Valley Cab at the time (not sure if they still make this, it was 2001-02 timeframe) at about $25. The specialty tasting were their ~$100/bottle wines. They were all delicious, but I didn't like them more than the Knights Valley. And they weren't $75/bottle better, at least to my palate. 

If I like a wine enough, I won't let a $60-80 price tag scare me off. But as I've said, there are wines that I like and would buy at a $20-40 price point, but that I don't like enough for that higher price point. 

I find wine pricing isn't always about quality as much as it's about the production capacity of a winery. When I go tasting, it's completely common to hit small wineries that might have a specific wine listed on their tasting sheet with a total production of 1000 cases. You're not getting that wine for $19.99. They didn't make enough to sell it that cheap. So then you have to decide whether it's worth it at say $50 vs a higher production winery that CAN sell the same varietal for $19.99. Those higher-production wines can be very, very good, but they're often homogenized because of the scale and where they must get their grapes. Sometimes the unique flavor of a wine that is more local and has growing conditions for the grapes that are expressed in the final product are worth it. 

But I never assume I'm going to enjoy a $50 bottle more than I'll enjoy a $20 bottle based on the sticker price. The only difference is that if I find that $50 bottle that I like, I'll buy a couple bottles. If I find a $20 bottle that I enjoy just as much, I'll buy a case lol...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2023, 07:03:41 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 01, 2023, 05:58:54 PM

Pitmasters have been NOT wet aging briskets for generations and turned out delicious product.  I'm not sold on it. 

But lots of the modern pitmasters seem to believe in it.  To each his own.

But as with all things, decisions don't exist in a vacuum. They must always be balanced against economics.

Let's say you're Aaron Franklin. I don't know if he ages his briskets or not. But if he does, he has to have fridge space for 3+ weeks of unused brisket sitting there. He has to float the cost of all that brisket 3 extra weeks and carry that inventory. He has to look at the advantage of the aging vs the premium he'll get from customers for the quality of his brisket, and whether it's worth it. If it's a miniscule advantage, he might choose not to do it, NOT because it doesn't make the product better, but because it doesn't do so to the extent that is economically justifiable. 

Now let's say you're a competition pitmaster. The number of briskets you're holding as inventory is much smaller, so all the refrigeration costs are much lower. You're looking not for revenue, but for trophies--and bragging rights. A miniscule advantage may be worth it if it's the difference between finishing 2nd and 5th. If you think it gives you an edge, it's worth it.

For me, I don't know if it makes a difference. But the idea that it *might* improve the product, and the knowledge that it doesn't diminish it, makes me start looking for brisket 3-4 weeks in advance of when I'm planning to use one. Not being in Texas (and BTW I got to go to HEB in San Antonio--and I'm jealous) I might not see a brisket that's the right size/shape/marbling 3-4 weeks in advance. But I start looking because I know that if it sits in the fridge over that time, it'll potentially be even better than if I find one 1 week before. And if I don't see one? It's not enough of a difference-maker IMHO to worry about. I look the next week. The idea of wet-aging brisket gives me the flexibility to start looking for meat before I would have ordinarily done so, because prior to hearing about it I thought that brisket was like most other meat--have to use it or freeze it pretty quickly after you take it home. 

Whether you choose to wet age or not depends a lot on who you are, what problem you're solving for, and what constraints you live under.

I don't have a "belief" on whether wet aging is great or not. If everything aligns for me schedule-wise, I'll do it. But it's not a hill I'm going to die on that it's some insane difference-maker.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 01, 2023, 09:35:34 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on November 01, 2023, 05:37:46 PM

Expensive wine is wasted on me.  I can't tell the difference between a $10 bottle of wine and a $200 bottle

Same.
Refridgerate your grape juice, people!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on November 01, 2023, 10:46:50 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 01, 2023, 06:32:38 PM

I hear this a lot from folks who usually have never had a $200 bottle.  I used to do a blind tasting with wines ranging from $5 ti $100 with folks.  Many were surprised at how good the latter wine was.  It really doesn't require some unusual experience or palette to discriminate.

I have had very expensive wine many times. I have a friend who is a vinophile who always breaking open some fine wine just can't tell.

Maybe a blind taste test might prove different.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 01, 2023, 11:17:15 PM

Same with cigars, for me.  My uncle is always happy to share one of his good ones, but it would just be wasted on me. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 01, 2023, 11:43:05 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 01, 2023, 07:03:41 PM

But as with all things, decisions don't exist in a vacuum. They must always be balanced against economics.

Let's say you're Aaron Franklin. I don't know if he ages his briskets or not. But if he does, he has to have fridge space for 3+ weeks of unused brisket sitting there. He has to float the cost of all that brisket 3 extra weeks and carry that inventory. He has to look at the advantage of the aging vs the premium he'll get from customers for the quality of his brisket, and whether it's worth it. If it's a miniscule advantage, he might choose not to do it, NOT because it doesn't make the product better, but because it doesn't do so to the extent that is economically justifiable.

Now let's say you're a competition pitmaster. The number of briskets you're holding as inventory is much smaller, so all the refrigeration costs are much lower. You're looking not for revenue, but for trophies--and bragging rights. A miniscule advantage may be worth it if it's the difference between finishing 2nd and 5th. If you think it gives you an edge, it's worth it.

For me, I don't know if it makes a difference. But the idea that it *might* improve the product, and the knowledge that it doesn't diminish it, makes me start looking for brisket 3-4 weeks in advance of when I'm planning to use one. Not being in Texas (and BTW I got to go to HEB in San Antonio--and I'm jealous) I might not see a brisket that's the right size/shape/marbling 3-4 weeks in advance. But I start looking because I know that if it sits in the fridge over that time, it'll potentially be even better than if I find one 1 week before. And if I don't see one? It's not enough of a difference-maker IMHO to worry about. I look the next week. The idea of wet-aging brisket gives me the flexibility to start looking for meat before I would have ordinarily done so, because prior to hearing about it I thought that brisket was like most other meat--have to use it or freeze it pretty quickly after you take it home.

Whether you choose to wet age or not depends a lot on who you are, what problem you're solving for, and what constraints you live under.

I don't have a "belief" on whether wet aging is great or not. If everything aligns for me schedule-wise, I'll do it. But it's not a hill I'm going to die on that it's some insane difference-maker.

Oh I understand all this.  I've mentioned that I grew up in the BBQ business right?  My parents owned a BBQ restaurant from the time I was 6 until I was 16, and I worked pretty much every job in the joint.

Aaron Franklin does wet age his product, and it does increase the price.  I was slow-playing all of that a bit, intentionally, because brisket prices have become outrageous at the "premier" places.  He's also using prime brisket, which is completely unnecessary.  I have personally run a blind taste test on my family and friends 2x over, with a prime brisket vs. a select/ungraded brisket, prepared and cooked exactly the same way.

Wanna guess how many folks could tell the difference?  Yeah, you got it.

Anyway, if Aaron is buying and holding meat for 2-3 weeks at a time, that's an unbelievable amount of refrigerator space.  He sells almost 11,000 lbs per week.

And yes, HEB is awesome.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2023, 07:44:38 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on November 01, 2023, 10:46:50 PM

I have had very expensive wine many times. I have a friend who is a vinophile who always breaking open some fine wine just can't tell.

Maybe a blind taste test might prove different.

Blind tasting really uncovers a lot of biases in people, in my experience.  I did one once with about 40 folks from France who visited here, my wife and son in law were pouring from bottles that were covered up.  One was French, one American, same price within a dollar or so.  They really whiffed on the chardonnay, and I had selected one that was in the "California style" versus a Burgundy, both about $20.  Then Pinot Noir and a Bordeaux style blend, they were about 50-50 on that one.

Several wanted to inspect the bottles, I think they thought I switched them up or something.  They seemed to have fun, we drank the rest of the wine.

I'd do this with our local group pretty often, mostly testing folks on naming the varietal.  It's tougher than most think, I'm not very good at it either.  

I would also do one with different types of glasses, that is the most amazing event ever.

Anyway, I personally find that $20 is a good price point, for me.  I get interested in the wine there, whereas at $10 I may just think it's pretty good, fine for drinking, at $20 it usually starts to be interesting.  If you tasted a $200 and a $10 back to back I think you'd note a difference, and you could well prefer the $10.  This presumes the $200 is properly aged and served of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2023, 07:49:38 AM

Any wine lover would be remised to not go here at least one time.

Premium Steaks in Tampa | Largest Wine Collection | Bern's Steak House (bernssteakhouse.com) (https://bernssteakhouse.com/)

BSH-Wine-List-July-2023-web.pdf (bernssteakhouse.com) (https://bernssteakhouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/BSH-Wine-List-July-2023-web.pdf)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 02, 2023, 07:50:33 AM

This barbecue conversation is reminding me that back home in California someone has opened a “Texas style“ place that is currently all the rage. 

Every time I’ve got home of late, I’ve been too busy to make it over there. But I will be back there for Thanksgiving so maybe I can sneak over.

I don’t have the highest hopes. The last restaurant in that style I tried out there was very mid. Living in the semi-deep south, i’ve been to a couple places that do it really, really well. In a bunch that do it well enough.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2023, 08:09:26 AM

The whole proce:value thing is always interesting, to me.  Take airline tickets, Delta One to France is something around $6,000.  Economy can be $1,200, Comfort Plus around $1,500.  Then they have "Premium" around $2,200.  We were in "Delta One" once, a flight to Seattle where we got upgraded and the plane was fitted with that as first class.  It's pretty neat, we played with the seats for much of the trip, but $6K?  Nope.

And travel has a lot of those price points, hotels, rental cars, tours ...  my wife doesn't like a hotel room that isn't really clean, so that means we avoid "motel 6" etc.  I'm looking at a hotel in Tokyo for two nights, one is $650 a night, but it's centrally located, and I have enough points for it fortunately.  Probably use taxis to get there from airport.

I don't mind using MARTA to get to the airport, my wife is not a fan, but she will tag along.  A cab is fixed at $35 from here to there.  Our friend usually drives us (and we him).  MARTA is one dollar, and a walk a bit less than a mile.

Restaurants.  Most of us here can fix pretty good dinners, there is no reason to dine out really, except some of us may enjoy the experience at times.  I can get two nice steaks at the butchers for $35, my wife just got a large flat iron at Kroger for $28, enough for four people.  If we go to STK or Bones or wherever, it'll be over $100 for two of us, plus maybe $65 for wine.  We don't do that often at all, I can fix steak reasonably well myself.  

I can't really do BBQ, and it's not so expensive, two of us can dine at Fox Bros. for maybe $50 if we have a beer.

Then of course there is store brand vs branded product, beans, laundry detergent, shampoo, toilet paper.  A good thing is "we" usually have choices and personal preferences and some latitude hopefully in spending.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2023, 08:21:56 AM

You gotta go to Bern's CDawg. Make it part of your next camp trip.

Also, store brand is my friend. I have a story about this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 02, 2023, 08:28:32 AM

I've saved a lot of money over the past 40 years by going less expensive on these things

I've "earned" the right to splurge a little more on some of the finer things that I enjoy.
It's just reminding myself to do it and break the habit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 02, 2023, 09:20:41 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 02, 2023, 07:50:33 AM

This barbecue conversation is reminding me that back home in California someone has opened a “Texas style“ place that is currently all the rage.

Every time I’ve got home of late, I’ve been too busy to make it over there. But I will be back there for Thanksgiving so maybe I can sneak over.

I don’t have the highest hopes. The last restaurant in that style I tried out there was very mid. Living in the semi-deep south, i’ve been to a couple places that do it really, really well. In a bunch that do it well enough.

Many years ago I used to travel a lot for work.  When I was at AMD, I spent a lot of time at our Sunnyvale office, and also visiting customers in San Jose, Menlo Park, etc.  Invariably our local staff would take us Texans to various new BBQ spots that had opened, telling us "this one's the real deal."  Most of them were pretty average, one or two were outright bad.

But there was one that a coworker/friend of mine took me to, that was very, very good.  I don't remember which of those towns it was, and I don't recall the name. But I have personally experienced very good Texas-style BBQ, in California.  So it CAN happen. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2023, 09:22:23 AM

I lean to going to seafood restaurants if I'm near the coast.  I'm still looking for one that doesn't just buy frozen fish from Sysco et al. even in Florida.

They used to be dime a dozen.

And great.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2023, 09:28:27 AM

We were in Austin years back, I was driving around wine country there and found a really nice spot, I forget which now, they had pretty good wines at decent prices.  We drove away thinking about lunch and were on some 4 lane highway south of Austin maybe 30 miles and saw a BBQ joint that was crowded and stopped there.  I since learned it was a chain of some sort, and was mediocre, which surprised me why it was so crowded.  I usually find decent restaurants in places but we misfired in Austin overall.  We were staying with a friend of the wife's and took her out to her favorite place and it too was mediocre we thought (not Q).

I couldn't find it on google maps.  Maybe they closed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 02, 2023, 09:45:53 AM

Was it Rudy's?  Rudy's is a pretty big chain, started in a town outside of San Antonio and now has locations all over Texas and even up into Colorado, I've heard.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 02, 2023, 09:47:54 AM

I'm no foodie, but I've always just assumed that if you want the best representation of something, some private citizen will have to make it for you.  I've been to many fine Cajun and BBQ establishments and found plenty acceptable food, but nothing like even a middling offering from an Acandian's kitchen or a Texan's pit. 

Well....they don't have to be Texan, anybody who knows what they're doing applies, but you get the point.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 02, 2023, 09:49:44 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 02, 2023, 09:47:54 AM

I'm no foodie, but I've always just assumed that if you want the best representation of something, some private citizen will have to make it for you.  I've been to many fine Cajun and BBQ establishments and found plenty acceptable food, but nothing like even a middling offering from an Acandian's kitchen or a Texan's pit. 

Well....they don't have to be Texan, anybody who knows what they're doing applies, but you get the point. 

Sure, and they don't have to be Acadian to make good Cajun food either!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2023, 09:55:22 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 02, 2023, 09:45:53 AM

Was it Rudy's?  Rudy's is a pretty big chain, started in a town outside of San Antonio and now has locations all over Texas and even up into Colorado, I've heard.

I don't think so, I recall it was a white building, I think.


Austin, TX | Rudy's "Country Store" and Barbecue | Real Texas Bar-B-Q | Now Shipping BBQ (rudysbbq.com) (https://rudysbbq.com/location/detail/austin-360-tx)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 02, 2023, 09:57:55 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 02, 2023, 09:49:44 AM

Sure, and they don't have to be Acadian to make good Cajun food either!

But it helps :)

One of the difficult things about that genre is defining it.  What is Cajun food?  Seems like every family has a different gumbo recipe--sometimes drastically different--and while they're all delicious to me, it's not uncommon to find people who really like one and are really averse to another.  So does that person like gumbo or not?  Difficult to say when it's a free-for-all. 

It also explains why my most favorite gumbos will never be served in restaurants.  The further into the backwoods you go, you'll find things in their pots that I don't know what it is and I'm afraid to ask.....parts of it don't look like anything I want to eat.  And it's amazing.  But no restaurant inspection and compliance entity is ever gonna let things like that pass.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 02, 2023, 10:01:04 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 02, 2023, 09:20:41 AM

But there was one that a coworker/friend of mine took me to, that was very, very good.  I don't remember which of those towns it was, and I don't recall the name. But I have personally experienced very good Texas-style BBQ, in California.  So it CAN happen. :)

didn't think I'd ever see this post from utee

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2023, 10:01:47 AM

As for "home cookin'", I agree with that, mostly.  We stayed with friends in a tiny town in England and she was a great cook, just basic food, and England isn't known for cuisine outside Indian.  The most memorable BBQ ribs I ever had was in my backyard, I had three fellers from Missouri bring their pit in and do ribs for a work group.  Dry run and all that, they were exceptional.  And that group included about ten coworkers from Japan, the weather was great, they sat outside on the grass and ate.

Our current favorite nearby is this place, it's one of a small chain each place having a different theme.  It's solid, gets noisy.

Midtown | Hours & Location | Ecco Atlanta, GA (ecco-atlanta.com) (https://www.ecco-atlanta.com/midtown-hours-and-location/)

We usually get 3-4 appetizers and are done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 02, 2023, 10:02:36 AM

And while I'm in the mood to disparage my people.....

I love boiled crawfish, and when so inclined, I put on a pretty good Crawfish Boil if I say so myself (Badger is not invited to my next one, 'cuz he doesn't know good food when it bites him on the butt). 

But I wonder about the origins.  Like....who was the first guy to see a bug crawling in a ditch and say "You know....I bet I could eat that thing's tail and claws and it'd be awesome"  ?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 02, 2023, 10:03:49 AM

guy was hungry as hell

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2023, 10:04:56 AM

Oysters, the same, and seiche.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 02, 2023, 10:07:42 AM

chitterlings?? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2023, 10:11:55 AM

When you get hungry, you look at all parts of the animal.  Hogs are pretty easy to raise, and then kill for meat.  Sausage of course can use intestines.  Hot dogs?

Pig's feet?  What's the weirdest thing you've ever eaten?

I've had escargot, raw oysters, seiche, foie gras, the seiche was really bizarre, to me.  I had a chance at haggis in Scotland and demurred.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 02, 2023, 10:13:51 AM

I've had rather good pork BBQ from restaurants in parts of Arkansas and eastern Tennessee.  Makes me wonder what the locals can do in their backyard.  I've had tons of homemade brisket.  Pork not so much. 

utee needs to get his tailgating spot back and I need to get over there.  Had some excellent brisket there several times, as I recall.  Also, he fed me cow tongue one time.  That was a one-and-done for me.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 02, 2023, 10:19:26 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 02, 2023, 10:01:04 AM

didn't think I'd ever see this post from utee

Well, it was a Texan who owned it and operated it, if that helps you temper your incredulity.

In general, I agree on the commentary about home cooking, versus restaurants.  Franklin here in Austin makes the best commercial brisket I've ever had.  And Louis Mueller in Taylor makes the best commercial beef rib I've ever had.  And Black's in Lockhart makes the best commercial pork spare ribs I've ever had.

But I'm not bragging when I say that I produce better on my pit at home. Like Aaron Franklin, I know what I'm doing, but I also have the advantage of NOT having to cook for hundreds or thousands of people per day.  I'm focused on 1 or 2 briskets or a couple of racks of ribs.  And I can hold exactly how long I want, and slice exactly when I want.  It's much easier for me.

But it's also true that I don't have access to all of the abuelitas out there making great Mexican food, nor would I dare storm the backyard of a Cajun in Breaux Bridge, so while they might make better Mexican or Cajun food than restaurants, I can't eat it.  All I can do is settle for the best possible commercial stuff out there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 02, 2023, 10:25:52 AM

That is a shame, 'cuz you can't not eat your fill at a Cajun's house.  Feeding people is their version of shaking hands.  Indeed, they're usually offended if you don't eat their food. 

I really shoulda got my great-grandmother's recipes, if she used recipes.  I wasted my youth.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 02, 2023, 10:41:18 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 02, 2023, 10:25:52 AM

That is a shame, 'cuz you can't not eat your fill at a Cajun's house.  Feeding people is their version of shaking hands.  Indeed, they're usually offended if you don't eat their food. 

I really shoulda got my great-grandmother's recipes, if she used recipes.  I wasted my youth. 

I was young and dumb and self-involved and immature in my 20s and into my 30s, but by my mid-30s I figured out that I didn't know everything, and I should probably set about to start learning the important stuff.  That's when I finally started asking my parents about their recipes and learned to cook their signature dishes. That's when I learned how to make my dad's enchilada gravy, and really perfected BBQ brisket and ribs, and worked on my chile relleno technique.

I did it with intent, with purpose, and I'm really glad I did.  Not only because I can now make those delicious dishes without having to wait for my parents to get around to it, but also I'm preserving their legacy, and hopefully someday my kids will want to learn how, as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2023, 10:47:17 AM

I have perfected Mexican spaghetti sauce.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 02, 2023, 10:48:35 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 02, 2023, 10:47:17 AM

I have perfected Mexican spaghetti sauce.

Amen brutha.  We've all got to find that one thing we're good at.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 02, 2023, 10:56:00 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 02, 2023, 10:41:18 AM

I was young and dumb and self-involved and immature in my 20s and into my 30s, but by my mid-30s I figured out that I didn't know everything, and I should probably set about to start learning the important stuff.  That's when I finally started asking my parents about their recipes and learned to cook their signature dishes. That's when I learned how to make my dad's enchilada gravy, and really perfected BBQ brisket and ribs, and worked on my chile relleno technique.

I did it with intent, with purpose, and I'm really glad I did.  Not only because I can now make those delicious dishes without having to wait for my parents to get around to it, but also I'm preserving their legacy, and hopefully someday my kids will want to learn how, as well.

Yeah, I never really tried to learn to cook until about a decade or so ago. And then, obviously, I did as I usually do, and went deep down the rabbit hole. 

But one thing I have NOT tried to do is to learn my parents' recipes. I wanted to learn to cook good food instead.

We do have an extended family cookbook that my mom put together a couple decades ago, preserving some of the family recipes. A lot of it isn't very good (based on the time there are a surprising number of jello mold recipes), but every once in a while I get a hankering to take all the good stuff, add some more from both myself, my wife (& her family), and others, and try to modernize it to pass on to my kids and my wife's nieces/nephews... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2023, 11:06:45 AM

My goal when I had the kids was to cook with one pot, two at the most.  I did a fair bit of beef and chicken stew, all in one.  I didn't count grilling as a pot if I grilled, which I did a fair bit also.  I still favor one pot meals.  Our deal now is usually whoever cooks doesn't clean up after.

One trick I use is to offer to fix "spaghetti" for dinner, which my wife thinks we have too often, so she then says she'll fix something.  She's on to me now though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 02, 2023, 11:44:09 AM

My mom cooked most of our weekday meals.  With three kids, simple, fast, and cheap were always her goals.  She wasn't a gourmet chef but she managed to make a lot of meals that tasted good and filled us up.  The recipes I grabbed from her were some of my favorites but they're by no means magazine-print-worthy.

My dad cooked more on weekends.  Sunday breakfast before church was always a big deal-- migas or scrambled eggs with chorizo, home fries, homemade biscuits and gravy, with bacon or breakfast sausage or thick-cut fried ham.  And of course lots of grilling and BBQ, and then his homemade enchiladas.  Chili when it got cold, and chile relleno for special occasions, because they're a lot of work.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2023, 12:59:31 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/H8ntQOr.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 02, 2023, 01:44:08 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/idDv5g0.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 02, 2023, 06:54:44 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 02, 2023, 10:47:17 AM

I have perfected Mexican spaghetti sauce.

Idk what that means.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on November 02, 2023, 07:47:31 PM

Has anyone noticed the price spike on deodorant?  Just a regular stick of deodorant cots like $8 now.  Eggs are getting all of the headlines, but Jesus Christ, I'm about to drag my smelly, sweaty ass into my representatives office to figure out what's going on here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 02, 2023, 08:39:11 PM

Quote from: ELA on November 02, 2023, 07:47:31 PM

Has anyone noticed the price spike on deodorant?  Just a regular stick of deodorant cots like $8 now.  Eggs are getting all of the headlines, but Jesus Christ, I'm about to drag my smelly, sweaty ass into my representatives office to figure out what's going on here

100%. 

The dove men's spray deoderant used to be like $6-7. It's $10+ now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2023, 08:17:33 AM

Deodorant or antisperspirant?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2023, 09:00:43 AM

Dove make's men's products???

Deodorant for me

I feel like your body is supposed to perspire

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2023, 09:25:54 AM

I sweated a lot when I was a teen, just being nervous about everything in life.  I tried AP once and it made me sweat more.  So, I never used it again.  AP uses aluminum chloride to clog your sweat glands, which sounds like a bad idea, to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2023, 09:59:37 AM

Quote from: ELA on November 02, 2023, 07:47:31 PM

Has anyone noticed the price spike on deodorant?  Just a regular stick of deodorant cots like $8 now.  Eggs are getting all of the headlines, but Jesus Christ, I'm about to drag my smelly, sweaty ass into my representatives office to figure out what's going on here

Yep. I use the Gillett stuff. Triple what it used to be.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2023, 10:02:05 AM

I use whatever's on sale

except Dove or other women's stuff (Secret)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2023, 10:07:05 AM

I checked on Amazon briefly, the prices looked about normal to me, but I don't buy this stuff often.  I naturally smell great.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 03, 2023, 10:13:45 AM

i haven't noticed. The 4-pack just goes into the cart at Costco whenever I run out, and that's so infrequently that I don't even bother looking at the price. I'm gonna buy it anyway. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2023, 10:56:26 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 03, 2023, 10:13:45 AM

i haven't noticed. The 4-pack just goes into the cart at Costco whenever I run out, and that's so infrequently that I don't even bother looking at the price. I'm gonna buy it anyway.

You are the consumer they love.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 03, 2023, 11:22:57 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2023, 10:56:26 AM

You are the consumer they love.

Eh. There are a lot of things to which I am price conscious. There are a lot of things to which I try to look at when they're going to be on sale and stock up. 

The price of deodorant is such a small part of my budget that it doesn't pay to think about. I have to buy it. I buy a 4-pack (maybe it's even a 5-pack idk) about once a year for something like $20... When I run out, I need it. When I run out, I buy it. It's Costco so it's their wholesale price + small cost-of-business adder, and it's in bulk, so I just assume it's the best option I can have at the time I need it. 

I'm not going to quit wearing deodorant because the spot price is up 20%. It's a necessity so it goes in the cart when I need it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2023, 11:25:36 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2023, 10:56:26 AM

You are the consumer they love.

When I went off to college I asked my mom which laundry detergent to use and she said "Just use Tide.".  Now that's a consumer they love.

I agree with Beta here, some things are not worth the mental effort.  I usually use Old Spice, same deal, I've tried some off brands that are cheaper and I don't care for them.  We do buy a fair number of Kirkland Brand items, and Kroger has some good private label brands on some things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 03, 2023, 11:34:50 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 03, 2023, 11:22:57 AM

Eh. There are a lot of things to which I am price conscious. There are a lot of things to which I try to look at when they're going to be on sale and stock up.

The price of deodorant is such a small part of my budget that it doesn't pay to think about. I have to buy it. I buy a 4-pack (maybe it's even a 5-pack idk) about once a year for something like $20... When I run out, I need it. When I run out, I buy it. It's Costco so it's their wholesale price + small cost-of-business adder, and it's in bulk, so I just assume it's the best option I can have at the time I need it.

I'm not going to quit wearing deodorant because the spot price is up 20%. It's a necessity so it goes in the cart when I need it.

You and I have that luxury, at the moment.  Still concerning for those whose budgets have less margins.

Incidentally, I have not noticed that about deodorant.  I have noticed the skyrocketing prices of meat and dairy over the past year or two.  Don't know if that's everywhere or just here.  Wife is a foodie who doesn't believe in lesser quality grocery items, and groceries are a glaring part of our budget.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2023, 11:39:29 AM

I certainly noticed meat prices going up a lot except fish.  We're eating at home more often now I think.  

Wifey fixed a large pot of lentils with lamb the other day I've been eating over and over.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2023, 11:41:31 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2023, 11:25:36 AM

When I went off to college I asked my mom which laundry detergent to use and she said "Just use Tide.".  Now that's a consumer they love.

my 100 level  chemistry prof explained how Tide worked and why it was successful - Marketing

I doubt he got a kickback
My mother also used Tide back in the 70s

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2023, 11:42:18 AM

I don't eat as much beef as a few years ago

because of price

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2023, 11:48:36 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 03, 2023, 11:41:31 AM

my 100 level  chemistry prof explained how Tide worked and why it was successful - Marketing

I doubt he got a kickback
My mother also used Tide back in the 70s

Tide worked better "back in the day" mostly because of a chemical called "STP", sodium tripolyphosphate.  It's a good builder, it chelates calcium and magnesium.  Nobody uses it any more though.  And I think every laundry detergent now is either liquid or capsules.  I was around when Tide Liquid was first developed, it has a different cleaning profile from the powder.  And without STP, the powder got a lot worse and started leaving white residue.

We use Gain, now, liquid.  It seems fine.  It's actually difficult to tell much difference in detergents in terms of cleaning.  A really cheap one will show up over time.

And marketing is a massive part of the business.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2023, 11:57:02 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 03, 2023, 11:34:50 AM

You and I have that luxury, at the moment.  Still concerning for those whose budgets have less margins.

We are by no means hurting, but we have come to be more conscious of pricing since 3/2020 when my wife retired. She does get a nice pension - about 60% of what she was making, and now is getting SS payments.

The pension is fixed, and our healthcare is substantially more than when she was working.

Meat is crazy in Florida, including beef, chicken and pork. Fish is up due to fuel costs. It's a 30-50 mile run for those captains to get out to where the good fish are, each way. That adds up and we pay for it.

I do Publix. Sometimes I do Aldi, but mostly that's her. And she does Walmart, because I generally refuse to go into Walmart unless it's 7 AM.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 03, 2023, 12:00:22 PM

Detergent and fabric softener are two things that I just use Kirkland. 

And per Badge's point and my response, this is something that when we get the Costco ad in the mail, if we see that either is going on sale we'll end up buying it in advance of when we need it. It's not like $3 off (or whatever is) will change our lives, but but it's non-perishable and is stored in the garage where it's out of the way. 

Unlike deodorant, we go through detergent/softener quickly enough and thus buy them often enough that taking advantage of the sale makes sense.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2023, 12:16:29 PM

Kirkland in my experience is nearly always a great value.  Their paper towels are close enough to Bounty to be fine.

My wife likes these Downy bead things (I don't).  They are pricey, I'm not sure what they really do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2023, 01:56:19 PM

SEC Roll Call - Week Nine (and I guess eight) | 2023 Season - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXIOC2tsX1c)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: LetsGoPeay on November 03, 2023, 03:19:19 PM

I used to use Old Spice antiperspirant. It started to cause a terribly itchy rash in my armpits. I've switched to deodorant now and haven't had any problems since. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 03, 2023, 05:36:57 PM

Quote from: LetsGoPeay on November 03, 2023, 03:19:19 PM

I used to use Old Spice antiperspirant. It started to cause a terribly itchy rash in my armpits. I've switched to deodorant now and haven't had any problems since.

Their deodorant sometimes does that too. 

I had some HS science teachers that lamented the aluminum in antiperspirants. Stuck in my mind, so I’ve never really used them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 03, 2023, 06:37:16 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 03, 2023, 11:57:02 AM

I do Publix. Sometimes I do Aldi, but mostly that's her. And she does Walmart, because I generally refuse to go into Walmart unless it's 7 AM.

You don't want to visit the human zoo?!?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2023, 07:34:19 PM

7am there's too many animals in there

1am or 2am, but the local zoo here isn't open 24hrs like before COVID

I might have been in a Walmart 3 times in the last 7 or 8 years

too much

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 03, 2023, 07:38:52 PM

How many times you've been in the Tractor Supply?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 03, 2023, 07:49:25 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 03, 2023, 07:38:52 PM

How many times you've been in the Tractor Supply?

We met my parents in Circleville sometimes and I take my kids in there to look at the baby chicks and ducks

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2023, 08:12:41 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 03, 2023, 07:38:52 PM

How many times you've been in the Tractor Supply?

not nearly enuff

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2023, 08:13:22 PM

SPENCER, Neb. (KOLN) - Huffy’s Airport Windsocks is a unique business found in downtown Spencer, and owners sell their products to a global market.

Greg Whisler manages the Seward airport with his wife, and also runs Whisler Aviation. Because pilots want to depart into the wind, he says windsocks are an important tool to help determine the direction of the wind.

“Without having any electronic instrument, we can look at a windsock and know we are between 3 and 15 knots of wind, and what direction it’s coming from, just by how the windsock is hanging,” Whisler said. Whisler has two windsocks at the Seward airport. He gets them from Huffy’s Airport Windsocks in Spencer.

You might not think of Spencer as a place to find a global leader in windsock production. But this family business now sells windsocks around the world.


“It started back in 1988 with my mother Karen and father Gary,” owner Mike Hoffman said. “He was a pilot, and we had a farm strip on our farm. They were having trouble having windsocks holding up.” Hoffman says his mom decided to take a windsock apart. His parents handed out an improved version to a couple of pilot friends. “(Those friends) called back and said that was the best windsock they ever had, because they would only last for 4 to 6 months at the time.”

Soon, the family had a contract with the state of Iowa, and the business grew.

“About 12 years ago, my wife and I moved back from Omaha and took the business over,” Hoffman said. Many people are surprised to find this kind of business in Spencer. “A lot of custom windsocks are made,” Hoffman said. “They want their logos on them, and they will hand them out to customers, and their customers will put them up. That’s a big part of our business is to silkscreen logos on windsocks.” The company also makes brackets to fly the windsocks. “They are a metal bracket with hoops, and they get painted or powder-coated, either way,” Hoffman said. “There are three different phases to it all, from the fabric and sewing, to screen printing and the welding.”

Huffy’s Windsocks does some of the work at the family farm, and some at the shop on main street. But the business is expanding to a bigger facility where most operations will be under one roof. “The sewing shop will have a bigger sewing area, the welding shop will be bigger, and the silk screen shop that is currently at the farm will be in another portion of this facility,” Hoffman said.


You might think there’s a limited market for windsocks. But, they are used in a variety of ways.

“You start thinking about, well, who needs windsocks?” Hoffman said. “It’s not just airports. It’s very diverse, from oil fields, to manufacturing facilities, cold storage, military, hospitals, off-shore drilling, they all need windsocks. It’s a real broad business.”

Owners say the business has a global footprint.

“Saudi Arabia, Dubai, lots of different customers in the Middle East or Australia, the Maldives, Ghana,” co-owner Jacky Hoffman said. “I’ve sometimes had to google to find out where some of these places are from. When the people call, there is a language barrier, and time difference barrier.” Owners are proud to maintain their small town roots. “Mike grew up grommeting on stumps on a log,” Jacky Hoffman said. “Our kids have been involved, and people appreciate that. We take a lot of pride in answering the phone, helping our customers out and I think in general people appreciate that we are knowledgeable about our product and they tell their family and friends about us.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 04, 2023, 09:48:33 AM

15 Things Broke People Always Seem To Have Money For (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/personalfinance/15-things-broke-people-always-seem-to-have-money-for/ss-AA1jkpT4?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=eca8b84e32c8465f9d7fb9e1628929c3&ei=18#image=1)


I've noticed this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 04, 2023, 09:53:03 AM

just guessin

Cigarettes, beer, lotto tickets, and fast food

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 04, 2023, 09:56:33 AM

You forgot tats, TV payments, the latest I phone, debt travel, purple hair, etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 05, 2023, 06:52:59 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/Ke4G2Lj.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 05, 2023, 11:26:32 AM

FORE!!!

suds and stogies!!

and poor swings

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 05, 2023, 01:43:43 PM

I'm all for as much DST as possible, but it seems like the switch back to standard time would be a little less depressing if it happened the weekend before Halloween instead of the weekend after, when the notion of eternal darkness is a little more fitting to the ambiance. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 05, 2023, 03:25:08 PM

No time-switching in AZ (except for the Navajo Rez)!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 05, 2023, 03:30:30 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 04, 2023, 09:56:33 AM

You forgot tats, TV payments, the latest I phone, debt travel, purple hair, etc.

Bro, you should be happy about this.  Why?

Because you and I figure that if your money is limited, you should spend it on your needs, right?  And that makes perfect sense if you make enough money to pay for your needs.
But when you don't make enough money for your needs, that idea no longer applies to a poor person.
.
So to keep themselves sane, they say "fuck it" and spend money on their wants.  We should all be VERY thankful for this, because for most, it provides enough of a distraction or checks enough boxes to NOT go out into the world and burn it all down.

If they didn't have a phone or purple hair or a big TV, AND failed to pay for all of their needs with all the money they have in the first place, our world would be very different.
I know you'll all dismiss this as another wacky idea from OAM, but please believe me.  It is true.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 05, 2023, 03:33:32 PM

I can't much condone spending money on trivialities when kids are involved and going wanting.  Maybe it makes the adults happier, I guess.  

I don't think "they" fail to "burn it all down" because they can get tatooed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 05, 2023, 03:40:33 PM

How many tattoos do you have?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 05, 2023, 05:18:28 PM

Actual photo of Cincydawg when I met him back in 2007:

(https://i.imgur.com/POBfwal.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 05, 2023, 08:17:09 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 05, 2023, 03:25:08 PM

No time-switching in AZ (except for the Navajo Rez)!

A few of the towns along the Utah border go by Utah time, albeit unofficially. Maybe it's the same way along some of the other borders as well. 

Being stuck on standard time all year round must be one of the seven layers of Hell.  I'd a lot rather be gifted permanent DST.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 05, 2023, 08:25:39 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 05, 2023, 08:17:09 PM

A few of the towns along the Utah border go by Utah time, albeit unofficially. Maybe it's the same way along some of the other borders as well.

Being stuck on standard time all year round must be one of the seven layers of Hell.  I'd a lot rather be gifted permanent DST.

Are they those fundamentalist LDS towns?  Colorado City n such?  
I always wanted to visit to gauge the creepiness factor of that place.

I love not having to change times twice a year.  It's antiquated and dumb now.  One less thing to worry about.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 05, 2023, 10:27:20 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 05, 2023, 05:18:28 PM

Actual photo of Cincydawg when I met him back in 2007:

Naw,he would have had a tat of the Allman Bros Band or Charlie's Angel's

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 05, 2023, 10:28:54 PM

Any way USC has dismissed defensive coordinator Alex Grinch.He'd pair up well with Brian Ferentz for a 1-2 punch in O & D coordinators

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 05, 2023, 10:58:20 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 05, 2023, 08:25:39 PM

Are they those fundamentalist LDS towns?  Colorado City n such? 
I always wanted to visit to gauge the creepiness factor of that place.

I love not having to change times twice a year.  It's antiquated and dumb now.  One less thing to worry about.

Colorado City is definitely on Utah time.

It's nowhere near anything in Arizona except Fredonia, which is also unofficially on Utah time.

I've ridden an electric scooter through every nook and cranny in Colorado City. It's a pretty surreal place. They have an old abandoned zoo in the middle of town, that still has monkey cages. There's also a giant wavy slide that goes down the side of a hill. Lots of really unusual buildings all over town, mostly housing designed for dozens of occupants. Lots of unusual characters all over town as well, mostly the occupants of the peculiar housing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 06, 2023, 07:47:11 AM

https://youtu.be/aXOZecj_oyI

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 06, 2023, 08:31:49 AM

classic

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 06, 2023, 10:37:51 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 05, 2023, 10:28:54 PM

Any way USC has dismissed defensive coordinator Alex Grinch.He'd pair up well with Brian Ferentz for a 1-2 punch in O & D coordinators

We'll take him.  We'll take anything.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 06, 2023, 12:47:20 PM

You do not want Grinch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 06, 2023, 01:01:22 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 06, 2023, 12:47:20 PM

You do not want Grinch.

No, I don't, but they've put a better product on the field so far than we have, so it'd still be an upgrade, no matter how crappy it remains.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 06, 2023, 01:02:32 PM

Doesn't LSU have a slew of injuries on D?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 06, 2023, 01:17:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 06, 2023, 01:02:32 PM

Doesn't LSU have a slew of injuries on D?

In the secondary, mostly at corner.  

I don't think it matters, the guys who are out were getting Moss'd by Grambling's WRs in week 2.  There's no dropoff at rock bottom.  Amazingly, Milroe didn't throw a single impressive ball Saturday (I expected he would land some like he has been doing) and yet it was enough to only punt once the entire game. 

The front 7 isn't lacking talent or bodies.  Most of these guys have been proven commodities in either '21 or '22.  They're deeper there than they were last year, when I was rather pleased with how the starters played against UGA, for example.  They line up too far off the ball, they have no leverage or technique, they take terrible angles, they can't tackle, they have no pass rushing moves to speak of, they don't know how to maintain their lanes, they can't get off blocks....literally every aspect a front 7 player can have that I can think of, these guys suck at it.  Alabama ran two plays for nearly the entire game.  They still couldn't figure out where they needed to be, and on the occasions they did, they got manhandled by players who made them look appreciably physically inferior even though in the past they've proven not to be.  They're not injured, they just suck.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 06, 2023, 01:21:46 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 06, 2023, 01:17:24 PM

The front 7 isn't lacking talent or bodies.  Most of these guys have been proven commodities in either '21 or '22.  They're deeper there than they were last year, when I was rather pleased with how the starters played against UGA, for example. 

They still couldn't figure out where they needed to be, and on the occasions they did, they got manhandled by players who made them look appreciably physically inferior even though in the past they've proven not to be.  They're not injured, they just suck. 

These two bits seem in contrast to each other... Was there a coaching or schematic change that would make previously-productive players suddenly not productive? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 06, 2023, 01:41:52 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 06, 2023, 01:21:46 PM

These two bits seem in contrast to each other... Was there a coaching or schematic change that would make previously-productive players suddenly not productive?

Last year's DL coach took another job.  The DL coach Kelly hired had some medical thing that forced him to quit shortly before the season.  A guy who has never coached DL was promoted to the spot.  That's the only thing I know of on the coaching front.  Still, when you see dropoff like this, you know it has to be coaching.  

House was not impressive as a DC last year, but he wasn't awful either.  Biggest glaring weakness is he has no idea what to do with linebackers.  There doesn't seem to be a defined plan for them.  They're listless and mostly react to plays once the blocking has already been set and they're caught in the wash.  The one bright spot there was a LB who was a human scud missile sacking and spying QBs.  He's elite at it.  What has House had him doing this year, mostly?  Dropping back into coverage in a futile effort to help a pitiful secondary, while the line generates less than zero pass rush.  The secondary sucks anyway, an extra LB hasn't been helping.  It should be obvious to keep him near the line and at least apply some QB pressure.  

Apparently combining a listless defensive gameplan with languishing line technique is a poor recipe. 

Usually when something is this bad it's not just one thing.  Indeed, some of the secondary's problems is a talent deficiency.  We've seen a lot of guys in the front 7's two-deep be quite good either here or at other schools the last couple of years.  They never look like they're playing as a unit, like they know what the scheme on any given play is supposed to accomplish, so sometimes you get different guys making individually impressive plays, but to no discernible end.  Most of the time they just suck, as described above.  

I didn't think it was possible for LSU to rank 120 out of 130 in yards per play allowed, but there you have it.  Bright side is since I last checked Vanderbilt has overtaken us as the worst D in the conference, so at least we're not on the bottom anymore......yay?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 06, 2023, 02:08:47 PM

Got it. That makes sense. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 06, 2023, 02:31:27 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 06, 2023, 12:47:20 PM

You do not want Grinch.

stink,stank,stunk

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 06, 2023, 03:22:14 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 06, 2023, 02:31:27 PM

stink,stank,stunk

I'm looking for a 39 1/2 foot pole. Anyone got one?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 06, 2023, 06:16:40 PM

There's the set...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 06, 2023, 06:20:53 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on November 06, 2023, 03:22:14 PM

I'm looking for a 39 1/2 foot pole. Anyone got one?

Well it's not THAT big, but...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 06, 2023, 06:23:53 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 06, 2023, 01:41:52 PM

Last year's DL coach took another job.  The DL coach Kelly hired had some medical thing that forced him to quit shortly before the season.  A guy who has never coached DL was promoted to the spot.  That's the only thing I know of on the coaching front.  Still, when you see dropoff like this, you know it has to be coaching. 

House was not impressive as a DC last year, but he wasn't awful either.  Biggest glaring weakness is he has no idea what to do with linebackers.  There doesn't seem to be a defined plan for them.  They're listless and mostly react to plays once the blocking has already been set and they're caught in the wash.  The one bright spot there was a LB who was a human scud missile sacking and spying QBs.  He's elite at it.  What has House had him doing this year, mostly?  Dropping back into coverage in a futile effort to help a pitiful secondary, while the line generates less than zero pass rush.  The secondary sucks anyway, an extra LB hasn't been helping.  It should be obvious to keep him near the line and at least apply some QB pressure. 

Apparently combining a listless defensive gameplan with languishing line technique is a poor recipe. 

Usually when something is this bad it's not just one thing.  Indeed, some of the secondary's problems is a talent deficiency.  We've seen a lot of guys in the front 7's two-deep be quite good either here or at other schools the last couple of years.  They never look like they're playing as a unit, like they know what the scheme on any given play is supposed to accomplish, so sometimes you get different guys making individually impressive plays, but to no discernible end.  Most of the time they just suck, as described above. 

I didn't think it was possible for LSU to rank 120 out of 130 in yards per play allowed, but there you have it.  Bright side is since I last checked Vanderbilt has overtaken us as the worst D in the conference, so at least we're not on the bottom anymore......yay?

Perkins has got to be hating life.
As a FR, he's basically told to go get the QB and just make plays on whoever has the ball.
This year, he's saddled with responsibilities and pass coverage and crap like that.  His stats have taken a drop from last year.
Doesn't seem very fun.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 07, 2023, 07:05:49 AM

Tenderizing a steak with baking soda was a success, see cooking thread for details.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 07, 2023, 08:19:12 AM

A thing I don't understand is "coffee shops", like Starbucks etc.  I can see a few of them, but they are everywhere.  I saw another one is opening up near me.  I gather the appeal is with the 20-40 crowd, which lets me out of course.  I still don't grok it.

My step son and his GF went every afternoon to one.  My wife has one of those machines to make her own, she doesn't like the shops either.  I don't know if it's a social thing or folks really like $4 coffee.

Midtown Atlanta is Getting a Foxtail Coffee Co. | What Now Atlanta (https://whatnowatlanta.com/midtown-atlanta-is-getting-a-foxtail-coffee-co/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 07, 2023, 08:41:20 AM

I get the social aspect
there is a nice place in Lincoln where people meet and study
I had a business meeting there mid-morning

I don't get sitting in the drive thru for 15 minutes to pay $5 for coffee

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 07, 2023, 09:12:52 AM

I could understand a few coffee shops around for whatever, but the number of them astonishes me, with more on the way.

I counted 17 within a mile of me, including 3 Starbucks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 07, 2023, 09:15:46 AM

almost like bars, or fast food joints, or 7/11

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 07, 2023, 09:22:34 AM

We don't have anything like that many bars here, and of course the ones we have are mainly restaurants with a bar.  As for fast food, we have two that I can think of, in a mile, a Panera and a Chipotle.  No 7/11, but there is a "Quickstop" which is kind of the same.

I count 7 places with bar, pub, or tavern in their names.  Charles Barkley is known to hang in the Eleventh Street Pub at times.

I gather these are "places to go and meet up" and whatnot.  It just amuses me a bit.  You can of course go to most restaurants and sit at a bar and order coffee to your hearts content.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 07, 2023, 07:37:17 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 07, 2023, 09:12:52 AM

I could understand a few coffee shops around for whatever, but the number of them astonishes me, with more on the way.

I counted 17 within a mile of me, including 3 Starbucks.

I was thinking about this just this morning.

I think a major component of it is that everyone can make whatever they're buying at Starbucks.  But they get to feign ignorance about the absurd ingredients in it that they'd never concoct on their own.
No one would put a bunch of vanilla syrup and caramel sauce in a coffee they made at home.  At least I hope not.

I don't drink coffee, so I could be wrong.  But yeah, you get a sugared-up caffeine guilty pleasure made a lil less guilty bc another person is making it for you, and you get a nice little addiction going.  

Fun stuff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 08, 2023, 06:43:14 AM

When Starbucks went public I thought it was a scam/fad.  Later I noticed a line of cars outside the Starbucks I drove by each morning, waiting on coffee.

I could understand some around college campuses (and I'm near one, about 2 miles).  Of course, I don't really understand steak houses much either.  Or salad places.

"Hey, let's dine out at that new salad place."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 08, 2023, 06:46:02 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 07, 2023, 09:22:34 AM

We don't have anything like that many bars here, and of course the ones we have are mainly restaurants with a bar.

Poor Bastards

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 08, 2023, 06:48:51 AM

I think bars here have to serve a certain amount of food.  I don't know of any bars that don't.  There is a new very fancy cigar bar that just opened near us. 

(https://i.imgur.com/IFG5rax.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 08, 2023, 06:48:57 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 07, 2023, 08:41:20 AM

I get the social aspect
there is a nice place in Lincoln where people meet and study
I had a business meeting there mid-morning

I don't get sitting in the drive thru for 15 minutes to pay $5 for coffee

Here's the deal. You take $5/day for let's say 25 days/month. That's $125/month. You hire an adviser to open a managed investment account for you and you write the advisor a check for $125.00 every month. After 40 years, it looks like this - at a modest interest rate of 5 percent.



(https://i.imgur.com/SpudfZU.png)

At 8 percent, it's $440K!!!

I wish everyone understood this stuff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 08, 2023, 07:21:07 AM

I went out to the track to run a bit yesterday, and a fellow walked by with rap music, not all that loud, but I could hear it and make out some words as we walked along.  I'd say every fifth word was the F word or the N word.  The "music" was a drum beat, the usual stuff, and the same tune over and over and over.  He seemed to be enjoying it, and maybe it kept him from burning everything down.

On weekends, some folks rent these tricycle motorbike things and they often have the music turned WAY up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 08, 2023, 07:47:50 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/A71yvXR.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 08, 2023, 08:31:40 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 08, 2023, 06:48:57 AM

Here's the deal. You take $5/day for let's say 25 days/month. That's $125/month. You hire an adviser to open a managed investment account for you and you write the advisor a check for $125.00 every month. After 40 years, it looks like this - at a modest interest rate of 5 percent.
At 8 percent, it's $440K!!!

I wish everyone understood this stuff.

many people understand it
they just choose not to
lazy, undisciplined, no patience
poor choices in life

coffee, cigarettes, lotto tickets, McDonalds, tatoos
fools that make life harder than it needs to be

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 08, 2023, 11:22:18 AM

In Other News-- my daughter's high school marching band just won State for 5A Classification.  (5A is the second-largest classification in Texas, behind 6A at the top).

Cedar Park High School has now won the last five Texas 5A state championships in a row.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 08, 2023, 11:25:40 AM

Congrats, proud papa.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 08, 2023, 12:38:15 PM

Covid again.....yay. 

Went to a wake back in Louisiana monday night for a lady that passed whose family I'm close to.  After I got home that night I started getting a little sick and then by last night it was full blown.  Meaning I was likely contagious at the funeral home, hugging and talking to all those people, half of whom were elderly.  Brilliant. 

Second time to get it.....still would much rather catch this than the flu.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 08, 2023, 02:09:21 PM

I just had lunch with a friend who got Covid after attending his sister's funeral in Detroit.  He said nobody else in the group got it, yet.  Probably the plane he thinks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SuperMario on November 08, 2023, 02:19:48 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 08, 2023, 06:43:14 AM

When Starbucks went public I thought it was a scam/fad.  Later I noticed a line of cars outside the Starbucks I drove by each morning, waiting on coffee.

I could understand some around college campuses (and I'm near one, about 2 miles).  Of course, I don't really understand steak houses much either.  Or salad places.

"Hey, let's dine out at that new salad place."

I would argue that some of what's in them are highly addictive. When you go through weird brain trauma like I did, you start researching every part of food and drink that goes into your body. If you really want to raise an eyebrow, look into what Chick-fil-A puts on their food and it will also help you understand that "fad" as well.

Eventually, food and drink places will face similar consequences to what the cigarette industries faced, but we're probably decades away from people facing that reality

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 08, 2023, 02:31:58 PM

Chick-Fil-A to me is quite amazing service and decent sammiches.

I don't know what chemicals they use other than the usual.

I see brominated veggie oil may be on the way out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on November 08, 2023, 02:39:15 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 08, 2023, 02:31:58 PM

Chick-Fil-A to me is quite amazing service and decent sammiches.

I don't know what chemicals they use other than the usual.

I see brominated veggie oil may be on the way out.

Their sandwiches are good.  But I think below Popeye's, and on par with Wendy's.  But their level of service is beyond what any other fast food offers.  As a father of three, if there is even 1 car in front of you at any other fast food, that could be anywhere between a 2 minute or 20 minute wait.  You see a Chick-Fil-A line, you know what you are getting.  It might be long, and we keep going, but if it's short, you know its a quick wait.  They keep it moving, and if there is an issue, they handle it, and keep it moving.  If Wendys or Popeyes has an issue, the whole operation shuts down

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 08, 2023, 02:43:02 PM

I'll go if we're on a trip and they are off the freeway.  I'll very rarely go around here, too many good options for us.  There is one up the street that oddly is not open for dinner.  It used to be.  

Our stomachs are pretty amazing chemical plants.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on November 08, 2023, 02:51:24 PM

Our oldest plays in house football, basketball, soccer and baseball; travel basketball, soccer and baseball; and multi-state club level baseball.

Our next is incredibly engaged in theater, but also plays local baseball and basketball.

Our youngest is 3 1/2 so it's coming.

Would I choose to eat at a Chick-Fil-A?  Nope.  When we are driving from a soccer game to a baseball game 2 hours apart, do I know what a line means?  Absolutely

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 08, 2023, 02:55:02 PM

Quote from: SuperMario on November 08, 2023, 02:19:48 PM

I would argue that some of what's in them are highly addictive. When you go through weird brain trauma like I did, you start researching every part of food and drink that goes into your body. If you really want to raise an eyebrow, look into what Chick-fil-A puts on their food and it will also help you understand that "fad" as well.

Eventually, food and drink places will face similar consequences to what the cigarette industries faced, but we're probably decades away from people facing that reality

What do they put in their food?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 08, 2023, 03:04:15 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 08, 2023, 12:38:15 PM

Covid again.....yay. 

Congrats!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SuperMario on November 08, 2023, 04:34:22 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 08, 2023, 02:55:02 PM

What do they put in their food?

The big one is monosodium glutamate. Food industry gets away with calling it a "flavor enhancer" but in reality it's an excitotoxin that overstimulates the neuron receptors and creates addictions and does harms the brain over time. Chicken and breading both have it. 

Chicken also has sodium aluminum phosphate, linked to brain issues, dimethylpolysiloxane which is a silicone ploymer.. yeah lets put that in our body. Emulsifier like monoglycerides which are starting to be tied to brain issues like cavernous malformations, Soy lecithin.. potassium iodate.. banned in europe. 

Potassium sorbate.. polysorbate 80.. again, any type of emulsifier is starting to be tied to brain issues.

Lastly - when any company uses the term "natural flavor" it's a giant red flag. It's a proprietary "flavor" produced by that company and a way to bypass the FDA. 

Obviously after I suffered multiple brain tumors and bilateral craniotomy, i went down an extensive rabbit hole of causes and issues that could have lead to it and the food industries and what they do opened my eyes, yet scared me at the same time. I used to make fun of friends of mine that were farmer's market shoppers and what I thought were weirdos about their shopping and now i get my vegetables, meats, milk and everything possible from local farms.  Just a lot of bad things that happen in our food chains.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 08, 2023, 05:24:36 PM

Wow, thanks.

I've never eaten at Chick Filet. Now I know I never well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 08, 2023, 06:22:38 PM

I thought the concerns over MSG were completely unfounded... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 08, 2023, 07:30:51 PM

Quote from: SuperMario on November 08, 2023, 02:19:48 PM

I would argue that some of what's in them are highly addictive. When you go through weird brain trauma like I did, you start researching every part of food and drink that goes into your body. If you really want to raise an eyebrow, look into what Chick-fil-A puts on their food and it will also help you understand that "fad" as well.

Eventually, food and drink places will face similar consequences to what the cigarette industries faced, but we're probably decades away from people facing that reality

TRUTH,talking today to a bank rep,she has a 1yr old boy who has been in/out of ICU 3/4 times for heart/lung problems.She related to me how bad canola oil was even the organic stuff - I never knew that.Her pediatrician warned her against using it,no corn oil either,dayum

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on November 08, 2023, 08:44:36 PM

I assume it's only 6/7 the amount of MSG that every other fast food joint uses in their chicken

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 08, 2023, 09:06:52 PM

Quote from: SuperMario on November 08, 2023, 02:19:48 PM

Eventually, food and drink places will face similar consequences to what the cigarette industries faced, but we're probably decades away from people facing that reality

This.
They knowingly put things in the food that exploits our physiologies.  Everything in the middle aisles of the grocery store is either slow-motion poison and/or a physiological manipulation.  
Same with fast food.
.
It's cheap.  Makes sure to hit the pleasing stimuli of the tongue.  Gets you hooked young.  
Every single company that produces it knows it.  And they rake in the money.  Especially from the poor.
.
It's as bad as cigarettes or worse, and far more widespread.  
All for greed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SuperMario on November 08, 2023, 11:11:04 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 08, 2023, 09:06:52 PM

This.
They knowingly put things in the food that exploits our physiologies.  Everything in the middle aisles of the grocery store is either slow-motion poison and/or a physiological manipulation. 
Same with fast food.
.
It's cheap.  Makes sure to hit the pleasing stimuli of the tongue.  Gets you hooked young. 
Every single company that produces it knows it.  And they rake in the money.  Especially from the poor.
.
It's as bad as cigarettes or worse, and far more widespread. 
All for greed.

Spot on. For me I was forced with a life change to face that reality, but now every single meal is cooked fresh, i buy nothing that can sit on shelves, make my own bread, pasta, etc and anything with an emulsifier or sugar can go to hell.

sugar is one of the greatest toxic chemicals out there. Every day for 3 years I started my day with a cliff bar before my workout and a pedialyte during my workout and by 8 am I had already surpassed approved daily sugar consumption.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SuperMario on November 08, 2023, 11:18:06 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 08, 2023, 06:22:38 PM

I thought the concerns over MSG were completely unfounded...

The FDA says it’s “safe in moderation.” Over the last year I’ve connected with neurosurgeons, neurologists and a group of people that have also suffered from cavernous malformations and across the board the feedback is avoid msg as much as you can.

with a year under my belt of ensuring chemicals are nowhere near my food, my body outside of recovery issues from surgery feels like I’m 20 years old again. Too many times we get stuck with the word “diet” when we should focus on our way of life.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 09, 2023, 01:00:34 AM

Fuck the FDA and the USDA, the classic food pyramid, and honestly, fuck 3 meals a day.  
It's all born of greed and bullshit.

Soda shouldn't exist.  Neither should soda-burger-fry kid's meals with a toy.  It's mental warfare with the masses.  
It's another broken industry that kills untold scores of people with no consequences.  
No one needs 3 square meals a day, unless you're like a construction worker or outdoor laborer.  

$
$
$
$
$

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 09, 2023, 07:32:26 AM

I think a good part of the issue is misinformation and "fads".  "I heard from Joe's cousin's GF on FB that gluten is bad, so I'm avoiding it in food now.  I feel so much better."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 09, 2023, 08:28:17 AM

I eat 5-6 times per day. Only when I'm hungry, and almost never after about 6PM.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 09, 2023, 08:33:06 AM

This apparent notion that "greed" is some new thing sort of amuses me.  Our entire economic system is based on greed, which is inherent in human beings.

Communism is the perfect system for perfect people.

We're not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 09, 2023, 08:39:02 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 09, 2023, 08:33:06 AM

Communism is the perfect system

Said by nobody, except the ones at the top.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 09, 2023, 09:04:39 AM

If humans were perfect, communism would be great.  We wouldn't even need any economic system or government at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 09, 2023, 10:07:20 AM

Athens' new $126M arena gears up for topping out | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/athens-classic-center-arena-construction-topping-out-images)

9,000 seat arena for music in Athens.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 09, 2023, 10:44:08 AM

friggin egg lobby

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 09, 2023, 10:53:10 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 09, 2023, 08:33:06 AM

This apparent notion that "greed" is some new thing sort of amuses me.  Our entire economic system is based on greed, which is inherent in human beings.

Communism is the perfect system for perfect people.

We're not.

Exactly. If humans were different, communism might work. But we are what we are. Capitalism is a system that takes our human nature and channels it into a [mostly] productive and [mostly] positive direction. The "flaws" of capitalism are merely a reflection of the "flaws" of humanity. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 09, 2023, 11:01:23 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 09, 2023, 08:33:06 AM

This apparent notion that "greed" is some new thing sort of amuses me.  Our entire economic system is based on greed, which is inherent in human beings.

Communism is the perfect system for perfect people.

We're not.

wanting to work hard and be paid fairly for your efforts is not greed

under communism you are not paid based on the amount of work you do

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: grillrat on November 09, 2023, 11:45:22 AM

I remember a large argument on the MSU board a while back where the thread got into a debate about traffic merging.

AKA, which is better, the "zipper" method where the two lanes merge at the point where the lane ends, or do you attempt to get over as early as possible so as to avoid a crunch at the end where someone is forced to cut someone off and cause all traffic to suddenly come to a near stop (but at the same time, not using the ending lane to its full capacity)

There have been studies that say that the zipper method is the better way, but I highly doubt that because of the same argument as above.

The zipper method is akin to Communism.  In an ideal system, it would work really well.  Especially if people aren't greedy, selfish aholes.

Newsflash:  alot of people are greedy, selfish aholes.

IF people leave a gap in front of them (instead of riding the bumper), and 
IF people fill in the gaps near the end when available and don't wait until the very last second to pull over,
THEN the zipper method works well.

My route home from work that I drive every day has a merge point.  I generally try to get over earlier and leave a gap.  It chaps my ass to no end to see, EVERY. SINGLE. DAY., cars that are flying up the ending lane, within 30' to 40' before the lane ends, just blithely fly past the open spot and then force themselves over at the last second.

I don't think that I would ever truly succumb to road rage, but seeing people who have merged already, and then pull out to jump into the ending lane, just so that they can move forward about 10 car lengths, comes really close to my definition of justifiable homicide.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 09, 2023, 11:47:09 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 09, 2023, 11:01:23 AM

wanting to work hard and be paid fairly for your efforts is not greed

under communism you are not paid based on the amount of work you do

Under capitalism you are also not paid based on the "amount" of work you do. 

You are paid based on the economic value of the work that you do and the supply/demand balance between people willing/capable to do a job and the employers looking to fill that position. 

One of the reasons that we have so many debates around a "living wage" in this country is the number of people who work extremely hard but the value of that labor (and lack of differentiation which limits supply) is too low to actually survive based on that hard work.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 09, 2023, 12:09:27 PM

We're not perfect, we like our own stuff, we don't like working hard to give to others who are lazy.  I donate to help folks out down on their luck, as they say, and some of those folks no doubt are really lazy.

This is the key flaw in communism, in my view.  Capitalism has some flaws which folks try and mitigate with regulations etc.

I had some interesting conversations with my French friend about folks who worked for him back in the day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 09, 2023, 12:25:05 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 09, 2023, 11:47:09 AM

Under capitalism you are also not paid based on the "amount" of work you do.

You are paid based on the economic value of the work that you do and the supply/demand balance between people willing/capable to do a job and the employers looking to fill that position.

One of the reasons that we have so many debates around a "living wage" in this country is the number of people who work extremely hard but the value of that labor (and lack of differentiation which limits supply) is too low to actually survive based on that hard work.

being paid based on the value of the  economic work you do is the same as being paid on the amount of work you do

why would anyone work hard at something with no economic value

as far as a living wage is concerned this is not capitalism at all in fact its closer to communism

its a way of spreading wealth

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on November 09, 2023, 12:29:07 PM

so, Nick Saban is really rich...

https://twitter.com/JoePompliano/status/1722617709392011266?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 09, 2023, 12:31:46 PM

I routinely see FB posts advocating for a "living wage", but when I ask how much that is, I have never gotten a quantitative response.  I used to hear $15 which today seems quaint to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 09, 2023, 12:37:42 PM

Also, the zipper merge works substantially better than going over as soon as possible, and it's not close.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 09, 2023, 12:40:07 PM

I used to get rather incensed about the merging thing, now I just acquiesce, which drives my wife crazy.  I figure it takes me another minute, if that, no big deal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 09, 2023, 12:43:47 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 09, 2023, 12:40:07 PM

I used to get rather incensed about the merging thing, now I just acquiesce, which drives my wife crazy.  I figure it takes me another minute, if that, no big deal.

if that kind of thing causes one to be incensed they couldnt drive in Houston

one thing you learn real quick here is that you never signal to change lanes cause if you do drivers will speed up to keep you from getting in front of them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 09, 2023, 12:47:12 PM

I signal to change lanes and usually folks let me in around here.  Some drives are very aggressive of course, but most seem pretty rational.

I was up north a ways at 3:30 PM and realized I had forgotten how bad traffic gets out in the 'burbs around that time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 09, 2023, 12:55:39 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 09, 2023, 12:47:12 PM

I signal to change lanes and usually folks let me in around here.  Some drives are very aggressive of course, but most seem pretty rational.

I was up north a ways at 3:30 PM and realized I had forgotten how bad traffic gets out in the 'burbs around that time.

around here its not always happy city

there are all kinds of nuts around here and they all seem to come out to play when Im driving

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 09, 2023, 01:03:00 PM

I think folks here ara used to being stuck somewhere and needing someone to let them in, so they do it.  I see it pretty often when it's someone else, and folks stop short to let them merge or join traffic.  I see it when someone cuts someone off too of course, but it's more rare in my experience.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 09, 2023, 01:05:54 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 09, 2023, 01:03:00 PM

I think folks here ara used to being stuck somewhere and needing someone to let them in, so they do it.  I see it pretty often when it's someone else, and folks stop short to let them merge or join traffic.  I see it when someone cuts someone off too of course, but it's more rare in my experience.

you lead a blessed life

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 09, 2023, 01:11:23 PM

I have learned not to get upset over trivial things, it has made my life a lot better and easier.

My wife says I'm too soft a touch.  

We had a meeting yesterday to "meet" the candidates running for the HOA Board, she went, I didn't.  She's pretty motivated about it, but she told me they all seemed pretty decent, so we have 5 running for 4 spots, and they all seem decent, pick any four and move on.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 09, 2023, 01:36:31 PM

In on page:

(https://i.imgur.com/ILtj3bH.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 09, 2023, 01:43:11 PM

Very clever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 09, 2023, 03:02:30 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 09, 2023, 12:25:05 PM

being paid based on the value of the  economic work you do is the same as being paid on the amount of work you do

why would anyone work hard at something with no economic value

Because even something with low economic value still needs to be done. But you missed the second part of what I said--it's also about supply.

This comes up in a number of cases:

• Unskilled labor. If your job is basically something that can be learned in a day, there's no reason to value one employee's skills over another, so you offer as little as possible. Offer as little as it takes to fill the position, because if you can find someone who will take less, you'd rather hire them.
• Jobs where there are many more people "capable" of performing the job than jobs available. Think for example of elementary school teachers. It's not an unskilled position; far from it. And it's a position of tremendous social importance. But a high number of people are able and willing to do the job, which reduces the bargaining power of them, and so we probably are underpaying school teachers relative to their actual value, but we can get away with it because we can find enough people who will work for that amount to keep the jobs filled. 
• The opposite occurs, for example, with NFL quarterbacks. The 25th-best QB in the league isn't actually generating enough economic value to be "worth" his contract, but is good enough to be a starting quarterback and the market for starting QBs is millions of dollars because there's still a big dropoff between the 25th-best QB in the league and the 50th-best QB in the league such that he's not immediately replaceable. 

Low-paying jobs need to be done, and unskilled workers need to eat. But they can't demand any more than a low wage for their labor because literally anyone else pulled in off the street could replace them in a second. 

Quote

as far as a living wage is concerned this is not capitalism at all in fact its closer to communism

its a way of spreading wealth

Of course. However there are multiple ways of spreading wealth that we already are doing. Food stamps, welfare, EITC, and all sorts of other things are spreading wealth. We have all sorts of transfer payment systems in this country. Heck, the minimum wage is no different than a living wage in your argument--it's just a way of spreading wealth. 

The argument from living wage supporters is that employers are getting a "free lunch" by not paying their people enough and expecting the taxpayer to make up the difference. 

I personally don't buy that argument. I think the actual result of a living wage would be both distorting the labor market such that we don't have as much visibility into actual value from a job, and that instead of it being "the taxpayers" paying for it to the government, it's just "the customers" paying for in higher prices--but across an entire economy it's probably a wash. I'd prefer that we try NOT to distort the labor market and if we deem it necessary to correct inequalities caused by that labor market, treat that as a separate thing as we do now with the various transfer payment schemes we have. The more we try to muck with the market, the less efficient it is, so let the market do its thing and if you have to help people based on the outcome, then help them separate from the market function. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 09, 2023, 03:51:44 PM

How experts say my brain and body are better after giving up Diet Coke (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/08/how-experts-say-my-brain-and-body-are-better-after-giving-up-diet-coke.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 09, 2023, 04:10:09 PM

fall-2023-public-safety-report-v3.pdf (ctycms.com) (https://ctycms.com/ga-midtown/docs/fall-2023-public-safety-report-v3.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0OmX90TmnRGdVUXuhSenWURAZGKhl3lGpwQT7x3AdFuq2HLrEX4ztHmyA)

Pretty good crime report in my 'hood.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 09, 2023, 06:20:23 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 09, 2023, 12:55:39 PM

around here its not always happy city

there are all kinds of nuts around here and they all seem to come out to play when Im driving

don't move to Texas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 09, 2023, 06:33:33 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on November 09, 2023, 12:37:42 PM

Also, the zipper merge works substantially better than going over as soon as possible, and it's not close.

Only if everyone is on board.

That's why it's kind of a bullshit either/or......either is better than a mix of both.  In reality, we have a mix of both.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 09, 2023, 06:34:46 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 09, 2023, 12:25:05 PM

why would anyone work hard at something with no economic value

Is this a serious question???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 09, 2023, 06:36:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 09, 2023, 01:11:23 PM

I have learned not to get upset over trivial things, it has made my life a lot better and easier.

Amen


I don't really want to be more crabby as I get older

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 09, 2023, 06:37:09 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 09, 2023, 06:34:46 PM

Is this a serious question???

you know it is, so I question if your question is serious

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 09, 2023, 06:42:19 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 09, 2023, 06:37:09 PM

you know it is, so I question if your question is serious

There are so many obvious answers to that question that makes my question unnecessary, but considering the source, it's quite serious.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 09, 2023, 07:25:32 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 09, 2023, 06:42:19 PM

There are so many obvious answers to that question that makes my question unnecessary, but considering the source, it's quite serious.

Exactly.

• "Why would anyone go down into coal mines and risk black lung? It's a crap job." -- For some people, they have no other options and they need to feed their family. 
• "Why would any poor rice paddie farmer work in a Nike sweatshop making $1/day? It's a crap job." -- For some people, $1/day is better than being a subsistence rice paddie farmer. And they need to feed their family. 
• "Why would anyone work the fry station at McDonald's for minimum wage? It's a crap job." -- For some people, minimum wage is better than no wage... And they need to feed their family. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 09, 2023, 08:09:49 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 09, 2023, 06:34:46 PM

Is this a serious question???

yes it is

what is your answer

notice I didnt mention that the job was min wage I said no economic value

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on November 09, 2023, 08:14:57 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 09, 2023, 07:25:32 PM

Exactly.

• "Why would anyone go down into coal mines and risk black lung? It's a crap job." -- For some people, they have no other options and they need to feed their family.
• "Why would any poor rice paddie farmer work in a Nike sweatshop making $1/day? It's a crap job." -- For some people, $1/day is better than being a subsistence rice paddie farmer. And they need to feed their family.
• "Why would anyone work the fry station at McDonald's for minimum wage? It's a crap job." -- For some people, minimum wage is better than no wage... And they need to feed their family.

life is full of choices some make smart choices and some dont

and dont try and tell me these folks werent able to make choices

sometimes these choices are made in early adulthood sometimes later in life

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 09, 2023, 08:27:06 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on November 09, 2023, 08:09:49 PM

notice I didnt mention that the job was min wage I said no economic value

Notice in what you responded to, I didn't say "no economic value". I said "too low" economic value. You invented that "no" economic value bit.

And I also said that it was a supply/demand issue, where there is a degree to which the economic value of a job is decoupled from the market price for that job if there is an overabundance of supply of people willing/able to do the job. 

But either way, if the answer is "work a job with low economic value at a low wage, or starve" -- people might be inclined to pick the job. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 09, 2023, 08:48:11 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 09, 2023, 08:27:06 PM

Notice in what you responded to, I didn't say "no economic value". I said "too low" economic value. You invented that "no" economic value bit.

And I also said that it was a supply/demand issue, where there is a degree to which the economic value of a job is decoupled from the market price for that job if there is an overabundance of supply of people willing/able to do the job.

But either way, if the answer is "work a job with low economic value at a low wage, or starve" -- people might be inclined to pick the job.

Well that used to be the case, anyway.  Nowadays, they'll just take a stab at being a social media influencer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 09, 2023, 08:59:40 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 09, 2023, 08:27:06 PM

But either way, if the answer is "work a job with low economic value at a low wage, or starve" -- people might be inclined to pick the job.

Obviously.......to some of us.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on November 09, 2023, 09:02:50 PM

I advocate for legalized sports betting, because we are all adults here, and yet here come the Barstool trolls with Daddy's money, ruining it for everyone


https://twitter.com/kyletheboone/status/1722656454090363384?t=CC_bY50UBe4PTyh-cFrrXg&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SuperMario on November 09, 2023, 09:15:58 PM

Quote from: ELA on November 09, 2023, 09:02:50 PM

I advocate for legalized sports betting, because we are all adults here, and yet here come the Barstool trolls with Daddy's money, ruining it for everyone


https://twitter.com/kyletheboone/status/1722656454090363384?t=CC_bY50UBe4PTyh-cFrrXg&s=19

How to lose a bet and job at the same time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on November 09, 2023, 09:34:51 PM

Quote from: SuperMario on November 09, 2023, 09:15:58 PM

How to lose a bet and job at the same time.

I mean those are.the principal owners of that garbage site.  There are plenty of podcasts that do simulcasts during games.  If you want to do a gambling centric simulcast from your house, knock yourself out. But this is neither entertaining, or on the up and up. They are literally yelling at players to do things to help the bets they have already put on games.  This is the shit the NCAA should monitor more.closely

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 09, 2023, 09:53:20 PM

in other news.......

Virginny has made a game out of this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 09, 2023, 10:13:36 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 09, 2023, 09:53:20 PM

in other news.......

Virginny has made a game out of this

Nasty injury though.  Man I hope that kid is ok.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 09, 2023, 10:24:52 PM

yes, dangerous hit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2023, 09:11:54 AM

in other news in Cincy............

CINCINNATI (WXIX) - Hathaway’s Diner has closed its doors for good after nearly 70 years in downtown Cincinnati.

The restaurant shuttered Wednesday at the Hilton Cincinnati Netherland Plaza on Fifth Street after serving their final meals.

“Very sad day for me personally,” Hathaway’s Diner wrote in a post on its Facebook page.

“Between the city with all the food trucks. Plus not as many people working downtown. It just killed our business.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 10, 2023, 09:15:02 AM

I have never heard of Hathaway's.  I've stayed in that hotel a couple times and dined at their main restaurant (which is pricey), and somehow never saw this other place, or noticed it.

Downtown Cincinnati is struggling.  A friend told me recently that Detroit is now thriving downtown.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2023, 09:17:15 AM

probably never made the Triple "D" show with the red Camaro 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 10, 2023, 02:44:40 PM

I didn't feel too bad about missing the Vandy game and the bye week, but tomorrow we have a concert I don't want to miss that starts at 8 PM.  I might be sneaking a few looks at my phone.

It looks like an awesome concert, to me anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 10, 2023, 02:50:29 PM

Bachelor night meal ideas? 

Sunday night my wife will be at a birthday thing for her best friend, the kids are at their mom's so it's just me and the dog hanging out and watching football. 

I want to cook something delicious, that's easy enough to be worth cooking for one... 

One thing that sounds good is something quite spicy--I have a much higher heat tolerance than my wife, so when we cook at home I don't cook anything to my level because she won't be able to eat it. 

Any thoughts?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 10, 2023, 02:54:26 PM

I'd go something Asian noodles shrimp ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2023, 03:02:04 PM

I'd go with pork - I find the pork fat/grease holds the spice and delivers it to the right areas of the tongue

Pork belly, Cutlets, sausage, any Mexicana Carnitas dish simmered in flavor

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 10, 2023, 03:06:05 PM

Duck breast and make a chutney , you could make that spicy. 

Or make a very spicy sauce for the duck breast and then have some kind of a cool salad or vegetable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 10, 2023, 03:22:22 PM

Hunan beef.

(https://i.imgur.com/wmqWt3C.jpg)


Also, not spicy, but I have to indulge, I love making roasted bone marrow. Mmmm..

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 10, 2023, 03:23:33 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 10, 2023, 02:54:26 PM

I'd go something Asian noodles shrimp ...

Yeah, I find that any time I make an Asian dish it's like 17 different steps of mise en place and a ton of ingredients. Plus then you add the cooking of the noodles. I like the idea, but looking for something easier. But I could pivot from that and make some other fun shrimp dish. It cooks so insanely fast that it's convenient. 

Quote from: FearlessF on November 10, 2023, 03:02:04 PM

I'd go with pork - I find the pork fat/grease holds the spice and delivers it to the right areas of the tongue

Pork belly, Cutlets, sausage, any Mexicana Carnitas dish simmered in flavor

That might be a good idea... I do enjoy pork belly burnt ends, and that's something I could just toss on the smoker for a few hours and it's mostly set and forget. 

Quote from: MarqHusker on November 10, 2023, 03:06:05 PM

Duck breast and make a chutney , you could make that spicy.

Or make a very spicy sauce for the duck breast and then have some kind of a cool salad or vegetable.

Duck is intriguing. In addition to my wife's lack of spice tolerance, she has a poultry allergy... So duck is one of those things I never actually eat as we don't cook it at home, and it's also not a very common menu item at restaurants we go to (on the rare occasion we go out). 

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 10, 2023, 03:22:22 PM

Hunan beef.

(https://i.imgur.com/wmqWt3C.jpg)


Also, not spicy, but I have to indulge, I love making roasted bone marrow. Mmmm..

That looks delicious. Again may avoid just due to prep time, but I do love some good Hunan food. My favorite of the Chinese regional cuisines...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 10, 2023, 03:45:17 PM

Nuttin' wrong with a week's worth of Hunan leftovers.

You could do the prep and make 3-4 dishes. Beef, pork, chicken and shrimp.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 10, 2023, 04:02:55 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 10, 2023, 03:45:17 PM

Nuttin' wrong with a week's worth of Hunan leftovers.

You could do the prep and make 3-4 dishes. Beef, pork, chicken and shrimp.

But then when do I drink beer and watch football? :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 10, 2023, 05:12:25 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 10, 2023, 02:50:29 PM

Bachelor night meal ideas?

Sunday night my wife will be at a birthday thing for her best friend, the kids are at their mom's so it's just me and the dog hanging out and watching football.

I want to cook something delicious, that's easy enough to be worth cooking for one...

One thing that sounds good is something quite spicy--I have a much higher heat tolerance than my wife, so when we cook at home I don't cook anything to my level because she won't be able to eat it.

Any thoughts?

Shrimp fra diavolo.

https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/giada-de-laurentiis/shrimp-fra-diavolo-recipe-1942481

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 10, 2023, 05:19:30 PM

My wife hates duck so it is my go to when she's gone.  My favorite protein,  I could make it in my sleep.  Easy solo meal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 10, 2023, 05:26:32 PM

4x

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 10, 2023, 05:33:18 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 10, 2023, 05:12:25 PM

Shrimp fra diavolo.

https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/giada-de-laurentiis/shrimp-fra-diavolo-recipe-1942481

That looks solid and easy, and I think we have everything already in the house for it. That might be a winner.

Quote from: MarqHusker on November 10, 2023, 05:19:30 PM

My wife hates duck so it is my go to when she's gone.  My favorite protein,  I could make it in my sleep.  Easy solo meal.

If I decide to go buy some duck, this might be the answer too... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 10, 2023, 05:39:47 PM

Weather's getting colder, about time for some smoked duck enchiladas I'd say.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 10, 2023, 05:43:38 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 10, 2023, 02:50:29 PM

Bachelor night meal ideas?

Sunday night my wife will be at a birthday thing for her best friend, the kids are at their mom's so it's just me and the dog hanging out and watching football.

I want to cook something delicious, that's easy enough to be worth cooking for one...

One thing that sounds good is something quite spicy--I have a much higher heat tolerance than my wife, so when we cook at home I don't cook anything to my level because she won't be able to eat it.

Any thoughts?

How's the weather? Cooler - congee with shrimp and pork and sambal olec. Warmer - grilled or fried spicy chicken sandwich. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2023, 05:58:48 PM

I've only cooked duck after I shot it.
Never bought it at the market
I've had it in the restaurant 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 10, 2023, 06:01:31 PM

All the local Asian markets have tons of duck around here.

I've never hunted duck.  Hunted lots of dove and quail though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 10, 2023, 06:08:55 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 10, 2023, 05:58:48 PM

I've only cooked duck after I shot it.
Never bought it at the market
I've had it in the restaurant

Read interesting articles on the market hunters up/down the Mississippi Flyways.Back in the day they would coat their dusters,trench coats in parafin as a rain repellant.I'd like to go back to the day,never actually Duck hunted though,grouse,pheasant,quail and deer of course.Oh i forget wabbit & squirell - I was really no danger to them could have but didn't.Deep in the recesses of the woods,hills,meadows was reward enough - excersize,suck down some suds afterwards and talk about the ones we missed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 10, 2023, 06:52:00 PM

Wild duck can be trouble especially if you're getting a diver like merganser. Blech.  Oily dirty bird.   You want a puddle duck.  Better yet a maple leaf farm duck.  You should have decent butcher options in so cal to find a pack of two breasts with the fat on side.
Score the fat, season s&p
7min in hot pan on fat side med high heat , 1 min on meat side, back in oven on fat side for 7 min at 350.
Rest for 5ish.

Med rare best doneness.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2023, 08:37:15 PM

They aren't just normal buoys that will remain in the Great Lakes this winter.

New technology has enabled scientists that study the region's hydrology to do so during the harshest times of the year by allowing buoys to operate during the winter and even under the ice.

"These are smaller buoys that are very robust. They're all encased in a plastic container. They can handle the icy conditions, we hope," said Steve Ruberg, a researcher with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration told FOX Weather. "This is a first we're trying to do this."

The buoys are designed to survive sub-zero temperatures and withstand ice cover. They're capable of measuring temperatures, wave height and direction. Meanwhile, there will be robots that can collect data underneath ice that forms over the lakes.

Ruberg, who works as a Great Lakes researcher for NOAA, says they're going to put the buoys to the test in Lake Michigan this winter and plan on expanding the operation to Lake Erie next.


He said the data they collect will be helpful to the commercial shipping industry and the coast guard, which will be breaking ice.

The robots that will travel underwater will measure things like ice thickness, chlorophyll content, temperatures, fish, and zooplankton - all data points that until recently scientists could never study.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2023, 08:53:03 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on November 10, 2023, 06:52:00 PM

Wild duck can be trouble especially if you're getting a diver like merganser. Blech.  Oily dirty bird.  You want a puddle duck.  Better yet a maple leaf farm duck.  

Wood Duck, Mallards, Teal, Black Duck, & Pintails mostly

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2023, 07:41:43 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 10, 2023, 05:39:47 PM

Weather's getting colder, about time for some smoked duck enchiladas I'd say.

It is?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2023, 07:43:52 AM

41 already here this morning - headed for a high of 60

not cold enuff for a pot of chili

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2023, 07:50:26 AM

Good morning Fearless.

73 here right now. Headed up to 89 or so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 11, 2023, 07:52:34 AM

73 is nice you can have 89 - 847

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 11, 2023, 07:55:28 AM

I'll keep it, for sure. It's not humid, so it's perfect. The pool beckons. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2023, 08:09:01 AM

yup, too hot for me.
and I'd guess it's humid there
Just relatively, not humid compared to last month

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 11, 2023, 09:17:21 AM

49 here right now. 

High of 79 today. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2023, 09:33:27 AM

THAT's golfing weather!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 11, 2023, 09:40:02 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 10, 2023, 05:58:48 PM

I've only cooked duck after I shot it.
Never bought it at the market
I've had it in the restaurant

Actual picture of @FearlessF (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10) duck hunting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2023, 09:53:35 AM

spot on

never did any "real" duck hunting in a boat or a blind

just pheasant hunting and often walked up on a stock pond

Gotta be careful to wait until they get over dry land if you don't have a dog trained in retrieving in water

may or may not have had the required duck stamp

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 12, 2023, 08:20:17 AM

Arcturian Healing Technology - Star Magic (starmagichealing.org) (https://www.starmagichealing.org/arcturian-healing-technology/)

Geesh, there are pages and pages of this stuff on the Interwebz.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 12, 2023, 09:24:55 AM

Jimbo gone???

https://twitter.com/billyliucci/status/1723694746575442027?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1723694746575442027%7Ctwgr%5E479389dfcccdcbcf1b5281c9a6ddf08508093d47%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.elevenwarriors.com%2Fforum%2Fcollege-sports%2F2023%2F11%2F142875%2Fthe-jimbo-era-at-am-is-over

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 12, 2023, 09:38:44 AM

"multiple sources"  ....

And Maybe So.  I tend to wait for confirmation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on November 12, 2023, 10:58:19 AM

He gone. For the record I’m not excited about this. Maybe Fisher checked out after 2020, sure seemed like it. $70 something million dollars, sheesh. And you almost always have to pay the next coach more. And who are you gonna hire?  Honestly I guess I just don’t care much anymore. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 12, 2023, 11:05:14 AM

Quote from: Gigem on November 12, 2023, 10:58:19 AM

He gone. For the record I’m not excited about this. Maybe Fisher checked out after 2020, sure seemed like it. $70 something million dollars, sheesh. And you almost always have to pay the next coach more. And who are you gonna hire?  Honestly I guess I just don’t care much anymore.

I'm pretty shocked too, Gigem.

When counting all of the assistants' salaries (several of which were JUST extended, why????), plus hiring new coach, plus hiring new staff, the total cost to ag big money donors is going to be over $100M.  With probably around $30M-$40M to be executed immediately.

I feel for you, I really do, because Texas has put ourselves in a similar spot over and over and over again.  Not quite as expensive, but same net result-- firing a guy and then, who the heck do you hire that's any better?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 12, 2023, 11:06:31 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 12, 2023, 09:38:44 AM

"multiple sources"  ....

And Maybe So.  I tend to wait for confirmation.

If Billy Liucci is reporting it, then it's a done deal.  His "sources" are the AD and the university president.

And I'll add, if the TAMU athletics department is letting Liucci break the story, then there's a calculated reason for it.  It's part of their plan, likely related to how they want to approach their potential hires.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 12, 2023, 11:08:13 AM

Yeah, this probably is true, it can be, I just prefer to wait on the official word.

Texas A&M set to fire Jimbo Fisher? Sixth-year coach would be owed more than $75 million in buyout - CBSSports.com (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/texas-a-m-set-to-fire-jimbo-fisher-sixth-year-coach-would-be-owed-more-than-75-million-in-buyout/)

And of course the buy out is enormous and it's not clear who they can get there who will be better, unless they can attract the Iowa OC.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 12, 2023, 11:14:40 AM

It's definitely true.  Texags isn't like other school-oriented websites/subscriber services.  Texas A&M basically uses it as an extension of their SID.  They let Liucci break the "dirty" news that they don't really want to release through official channels, at least not until it's been adequately socialized.  It's quite a clever setup, really.

Liucci is a true insider who gets his marching orders directly from the university's athletic director and university president.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 12, 2023, 12:02:00 PM

My wife dropped it last night that she'd like another Hermes scarf for Christmas, so I just priced a few.

It's either that or a good ticket to the SEC CG ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 12, 2023, 12:12:12 PM

You can get a scarf any year no guarantee they get back to the dance.Specially with the Tide seemingly crawling back into the ring

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2023, 12:33:12 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 12, 2023, 12:02:00 PM

My wife dropped it last night that she'd like another Hermes scarf for Christmas, so I just priced a few.

It's either that or a good ticket to the SEC CG ...

buy em both

put off the SUV another 12 months

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 12, 2023, 12:48:14 PM

Or he can hit Jimbo up for a good cause,not like it's seal or mink fur

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 12, 2023, 01:30:26 PM

Wikipedia says Dan Lanning is the TAMU head coach - lol, nice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 13, 2023, 09:22:15 AM

Although they occur naturally in many foods, the flavor contributions made by glutamic acid and other amino acids were only scientifically identified early in the 20th century. The substance was discovered and identified in the year 1866 by the German chemist Karl Heinrich Ritthausen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Heinrich_Ritthausen), who treated wheat gluten (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluten) (for which it was named) with sulfuric acid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfuric_acid).^{[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamic_acid#cite_note-13)} In 1908, Japanese researcher Kikunae Ikeda (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kikunae_Ikeda) of the Tokyo Imperial University (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Imperial_University) identified brown crystals left behind after the evaporation of a large amount of kombu (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kombu) broth as glutamic acid. These crystals, when tasted, reproduced the ineffable but undeniable flavor he detected in many foods, most especially in seaweed. Professor Ikeda termed this flavor umami (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umami). He then patented a method of mass-producing a crystalline salt of glutamic acid, monosodium glutamate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate).^{[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamic_acid#cite_note-guardian-14)[15] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamic_acid#cite_note-15)}

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 13, 2023, 09:49:29 AM

yummy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 13, 2023, 12:01:43 PM

Welp.....made through another bout of covid relatively unscathed.  Worse than the first time I had it, but it wasn't that bad and I'd still rather deal with that than the flu.  Only thing with this that I notice....it happened last time and seems to be happening this time.....the fatigue is hanging on well after other symptoms are gone.  Last time I dealt with this for several weeks.  Looking forward to snapping out of it and being able to go about a normal day without constantly feeling like I need to crash for a nap.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 13, 2023, 12:05:00 PM

I worry about this "long COVID" thing, whatever it is.

Going to see my doc later this month for an annual "wellness check".  I had one last week with an NP here in the condo, they give me $50 for doing it, it's pretty silly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 13, 2023, 12:12:12 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 13, 2023, 12:05:00 PM

I worry about this "long COVID" thing, whatever it is.

Going to see my doc later this month for an annual "wellness check".  I had one last week with an NP here in the condo, they give me $50 for doing it, it's pretty silly.

Pretty common, and not that silly.  Patients have quite a bit of problems headed off and dealt with more effectively due to early detection because of annual wellness checks, and insurance companies pay out less in claims in the long run, so they frequently incentivize customers.  Some companies require it.  The main insurances accepted at "my" clinic offer a choice of gift certificates....$50 gift card for Amazon, Walmart, or some restaurant, I believe.  

Why do you have to do another check if you just had one last week?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 13, 2023, 12:29:25 PM

The in home wellness check is just a Nurse Practitioner asking questions about this and that.  I find the questions mostly silly, and it's not anything I'd use to evaluate my health situation.  She took my pulse, which is always pretty low, in the 50s, and listened to my breathing, meh.

I'm going to the doc to get an RSV vaccination and to get blood tests and for him to check my heart.  He's the one who spotted my heart issue a couple years back.  I may need a tetanus shot too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 13, 2023, 12:49:21 PM

I'm just not understanding two annual wellness checks, one in-home and one in-office.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 13, 2023, 01:09:52 PM

Well, I get the $50 for the former.  I wouldn'tdo it otherwise, it's a waste oftime.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 13, 2023, 09:44:01 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 13, 2023, 12:49:21 PM

I'm just not understanding two annual wellness checks, one in-home and one in-office. 

For the in-office, you swipe a card of some kind and for the in-home, you needs some one-dollar bills.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2023, 09:58:49 AM

Trump power grab comes into focus in leaked Georgia videos | The Hill (https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4309830-trump-power-grab-leaked-georgia-videos/)

So, I go to post this on FB as well, and it won't let me, something about Canada now allowing it.  Very weird, their bots are off their feed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2023, 10:21:34 AM

you have friends in Canada?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 15, 2023, 10:26:24 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 13, 2023, 12:49:21 PM

I'm just not understanding two annual wellness checks, one in-home and one in-office. 

Too many Po' Boys and Fried Chicken and watching the Bayou Bengals is prolly stressful.And fer god sakes stay away from football forums. Also you can have all the BEER you'd like don't believe those woke pinkos

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2023, 10:27:16 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 15, 2023, 10:21:34 AM

you have friends in Canada?

My daughter lives in Canada, but I have no clue why this pops up now.  It says I can't post ANY new items any more.

I have my home listed as being in Brazil (anything else about me is false also).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2023, 10:31:09 AM

You're in FB jail for being conservative 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2023, 10:36:44 AM

That would be hilarious, to me.  My liberal friends do think I'm a con, my con friends think I'm a lib.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2023, 11:12:41 AM

seems to be FB's opinion

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 15, 2023, 11:25:30 AM

I deleted my FB account years ago. I haven't missed it at all. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2023, 11:39:15 AM

I got into FB in 2006 when my kids went off to college and didn't respond to my emails.  They told me everyone conversed on "My Space", and then FB popped up.

My kids don't use FB any more, ironically, not that I blame them.  I find it occasionaly useful.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 15, 2023, 12:17:22 PM

My parents and lots of aunts/uncles/cousins use Facebook, so for me it's always been a good way to keep up with them, keep them in the loop, post some pictures of the kids, and all without having to make dozens of phone calls or whatever.

Although I'll admit as the kids have gotten older, we're having fewer photo ops, so my updates have grown less frequent.  Might be approaching a time when I'll abandon it as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 15, 2023, 12:25:29 PM

Feels like 90% of my Facebook feed is about Columbus restaurants now, which is honestly fine

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SuperMario on November 15, 2023, 12:37:23 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 15, 2023, 12:25:29 PM

Feels like 90% of my Facebook feed is about Columbus restaurants now, which is honestly fine

What's your top 3 in CBUS? I'm still a little leery to fly for medical reasons so we are thinking about sneaking off to Cbus in the coming month. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 15, 2023, 12:45:06 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 15, 2023, 11:25:30 AM

I deleted my FB account years ago. I haven't missed it at all.

About ten years ago I came across some study which claimed that there was an negative correlation between happiness and the amount of facebook usage.  I was having all kinds of problems at the time, so I thought I'd quit cold turkey for a while to see if it helped.  To my mild surprise, it did.  I didn't use it at all for about 3 months.  Sporadically since then, I've used it more, but never like I used to, and for a while now, only barely.  It is a great tool for tracking all my friends' birthdays, I like to log on in the mornings and wish people a happy birthday.  I always like it when people remember and mention my birthday, so I do it in hopes that it adds a little to someone's day.  Mostly I immediately log out after that.  

I have been considering doing more with FB lately, but I haven't been able to bring myself to do it yet.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 15, 2023, 12:54:31 PM

Quote from: SuperMario on November 15, 2023, 12:37:23 PM

What's your top 3 in CBUS? I'm still a little leery to fly for medical reasons so we are thinking about sneaking off to Cbus in the coming month.

What do you like? I'm not really a big fine dining person - my favorite meal is still probably the beef patacon at El Arepaza, which is a griddled sweet plantain covered in salad and beef and cilantro sauce. We've been to most of the restaurants in the Short North - getting a hotel downtown and eating and drinking your way down High Street is pretty easy and fun. There is an Italian place called Speck that I've heard great things about but haven't tried yet. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: SuperMario on November 15, 2023, 01:08:10 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 15, 2023, 12:54:31 PM

What do you like? I'm not really a big fine dining person - my favorite meal is still probably the beef patacon at El Arepaza, which is a griddled sweet plantain covered in salad and beef and cilantro sauce. We've been to most of the restaurants in the Short North - getting a hotel downtown and eating and drinking your way down High Street is pretty easy and fun. There is an Italian place called Speck that I've heard great things about but haven't tried yet.

Its funny as I haven't really even thought about this topic. I'm definitely not a chain restaurant type of guy and I would probably say I leaned towards fine dining but always liked steakhouses and Italian.

That being said, my life journey changed a ton last year and I haven't eaten out since and my food intake is crazy different. I basically make everything from scratch at home including bread and pasta and buy local vegetables, fruit, meats, eggs, milk, etc.  So I guess fine dining is probably not the concern, but maybe scratch restaurants which i certainly don't expect you to have a list like that lol. 

Interesting that you like the plantains.. that was definitely a common food for me living overseas but I haven't had one in nearly 20 years. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2023, 01:09:34 PM

I used to visit Ohio State once a year for three days on the company dime.  I dined here at least once.

A Columbus Staple for Over 40 Years - Refectory Restaurant (https://refectory.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 15, 2023, 01:27:50 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 15, 2023, 12:45:06 PM

It is a great tool for tracking all my friends' birthdays, I like to log on in the mornings and wish people a happy birthday.  I always like it when people remember and mention my birthday, so I do it in hopes that it adds a little to someone's day.  

Funny. I actually kept my birthday private, because I had the opinion that if you have to use Facebook to remember my birthday, my birthday isn't that important to you and I'd rather not you give me a pity mention online. 

But... I'm a little weird. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 15, 2023, 01:29:57 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 15, 2023, 01:27:50 PM

Funny. I actually kept my birthday private, because I had the opinion that if you have to use Facebook to remember my birthday, my birthday isn't that important to you and I'd rather not you give me a pity mention online.

But... I'm a little weird.

No shit?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 15, 2023, 01:54:43 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 15, 2023, 01:27:50 PM

Funny. I actually kept my birthday private, because I had the opinion that if you have to use Facebook to remember my birthday, my birthday isn't that important to you and I'd rather not you give me a pity mention online.

But... I'm a little weird.

This is true of close friends and I agree with you there.  I've lived a number of places in my life and have many friends I wouldn't call close friends, but still people I like to wish happy birthday to.  I may be one of those rare cases that I actually know all those people, remember them pretty well, and for the most part like them pretty well.  But it's completely unfeasible for me to ever remember their birthdays. 

There is a lot of things I wish I had kept private on the internet, but I unwittingly sold my soul to Google and Facebook years and years ago.  It probably doesn't matter now.  If you have a smart phone, some combination of the MANGA collective (or FAANG some prefer to call it) has everything on you.  I sort of knew that already but recently to complete a techy-type degree I had to take an ethics class, and it was eye-opening the sheer level of their ability to collect data on us.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 15, 2023, 01:57:46 PM

I don't need Facebook to remember birthdays. My wife does that. It's one of her superpowers that she never forgets a birthday :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2023, 01:59:30 PM

I make a post in January saying "Happy Birthday to everyone who has a birthday this year."

The one I have listed is wrong.  It is often a security question.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 15, 2023, 02:00:03 PM

My i s c & a aggie wife doesn't remember birthdays.  She also rarely remembers our anniversary.  It's a blessing and a curse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2023, 02:03:28 PM

My wife remembers our first date, our engagement date, and our wedding date, plus a zillion birthdays.

My standing "wish" for presents is not to be asked what I want for my birthday/Christmas.  I never get that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2023, 02:04:30 PM

World Peace - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3st-Hai1y54)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on November 15, 2023, 06:44:49 PM

Quote from: SuperMario on November 15, 2023, 01:08:10 PM

Its funny as I haven't really even thought about this topic. I'm definitely not a chain restaurant type of guy and I would probably say I leaned towards fine dining but always liked steakhouses and Italian.

That being said, my life journey changed a ton last year and I haven't eaten out since and my food intake is crazy different. I basically make everything from scratch at home including bread and pasta and buy local vegetables, fruit, meats, eggs, milk, etc.  So I guess fine dining is probably not the concern, but maybe scratch restaurants which i certainly don't expect you to have a list like that lol.

Interesting that you like the plantains.. that was definitely a common food for me living overseas but I haven't had one in nearly 20 years.

Heh understood. We don't eat out a ton, though that's mostly because we have annoying picky kids and I hate spending money to watch them not eat. Well there are no shortage of steakhouses or Italian restaurants. The Top (https://thetopsteakhouse.com/) is pretty cool in a throwback way, though I'm not sure they will be able to tell you how they make their food. For Italian my favorite is La Tavola (https://cdn.qr-code-generator.com/account8697397/41679461_1.pdf?Expires=1700175774&Signature=UEFp5ZIDDg0wvLuqs3SqTNQhq3Odc~16KASr1VuU0RsCOgKrFrVSTSR~D1iRO0OFe7o-YfrdysvYLFMZ~~WjEdRi2lCVQ6ct-UIpy8i6DAlFSsMFf2Sr65piHpKMPn6oHZvdgTRHaXj1e7y5J-W4UPMbEL2~mRFHg3r7Oq1PZtbjgTKwAL5coeUH2JHOnckmCOqds6LJ99mJ-Ad5SfBg11Q~nPEBn8FiCtss0PbmuC4gbSOGJ4ZlojjPJlT5XD1P2piUqcjBwLcS~p2oQ0kfw5suU8ac3sFyh-xc-LaaeKdnGtAMZK136btmwuQwI0ND9xjGGgWOFvU88~3ZmA-OOg__&Key-Pair-Id=KKMPOJU8AYATR), though I've heard great things about Speck (https://speckrestaurant.com/about-modern-italian-restaurant). I ate at Fyr  (https://www.fyrshortnorth.com/)the other day, a place that is cool because they have actual big fires going on in the kitchen, plus you can order an entire tomahawk ribeye. CD mentioned The Refectory (https://refectory.com/dinner-menu/), which is indeed pretty fancy. They also have tasting menus, which is always cool.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 15, 2023, 08:05:19 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 15, 2023, 02:03:28 PM

My standing "wish" for presents is not to be asked what I want for my birthday/Christmas.  I never get that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2023, 06:53:38 AM

Yup.  Earlier, I'd think of a thing I might want, maybe a tool of some sortI saw advertised, and then forget about it.  Now, I probably order it on line, done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2023, 08:45:28 AM

Only two Georgia Bulldogs -- legends Charlie Trippi and Herschel Walker -- have ever won the prestigious Maxwell Award, given each year to the overall best college football player in the nation. This year, we actually have two semi-finalists in the group of 17 -- Brock Bowers and Carson Beck.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 16, 2023, 09:04:36 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 16, 2023, 06:53:38 AM

Yup.  Earlier, I'd think of a thing I might want, maybe a tool of some sortI saw advertised, and then forget about it.  Now, I probably order it on line, done.

just ordered a fancy toothbrush at bestbuy.com
deal of the day
didn't think either of my daughters wanted to gift me a toothbrush for xmas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2023, 09:26:54 AM

I'm looking at getting either an air fryer or a vaccum cleaner for the wife, she has brooms already.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 16, 2023, 09:33:08 AM

air fryer is a good choice

don't you have a cleaning lady come in regularly?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 16, 2023, 09:36:42 AM

Get her a mop and pail, and some knee pads, and say "Woman, get to work."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 16, 2023, 09:41:18 AM

Tonight's headline:

Woman in jail for assaulting man with mop and pail.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 16, 2023, 10:21:48 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 16, 2023, 09:04:36 AM

didn't think either of my daughters wanted to gift me a toothbrush for xmas

It's a fine gift if it's something you've asked them for. 

If not... 

...it's a hint. :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 16, 2023, 10:31:16 AM

Christmas.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 16, 2023, 10:36:12 AM

Quote from: utee94 on November 16, 2023, 09:36:42 AM

Get her a mop and pail, and some knee pads, and say "Woman, get to work."

I frequently tell my wife to get in the kitchen and bake me a hot apple pie.  Which is--I think--a Cartmann line from an old South Park episode.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 16, 2023, 10:52:29 AM

xmas

y'all know I do that just because I know it bothers a certain someone

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 16, 2023, 10:54:07 AM

Bastage.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 16, 2023, 10:56:12 AM

My mental image of FF:

(https://media.tenor.com/jdE9_SubeYcAAAAC/stirring-the-pot-stir.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 16, 2023, 11:00:10 AM

Pretty close.

(https://i.imgur.com/Knd16Fr.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 16, 2023, 11:36:50 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 16, 2023, 10:52:29 AM

xmas

y'all know I do that just because I know it bothers a certain someone

I've known a number of Christians who are bothered by that because they think secularists are intentionally slighting the "Christ" part of Christmas, but I believe the etymology goes back rather far, predating any modern secularist, and was actually first used by the Catholic church due to the Greek letter "chi" ("X") which is first letter in the Greek word for Christ.  Thus, Xmas.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 16, 2023, 11:46:50 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 16, 2023, 11:36:50 AM

I've known a number of Christians who are bothered by that because they think secularists are intentionally slighting the "Christ" part of Christmas, but I believe the etymology goes back rather far, predating any modern secularist, and was actually first used by the Catholic church due to the Greek letter "chi" ("X") which is first letter in the Greek word for Christ.  Thus, Xmas. 

Yup.  X has also been used to represent the cross, over the years.  So XMas is appropriate.  Sure doesn't bother me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: jgvol on November 16, 2023, 11:48:17 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 16, 2023, 10:36:12 AM

I frequently tell my wife to get in the kitchen and bake me a hot apple pie.  Which is--I think--a Cartmann line from an old South Park episode. 

I yell this into the kitchen while my wife is cooking.


https://youtu.be/7kKvlv-IY7k?si=e4KPxcVYLHkiyQ82 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 16, 2023, 11:48:49 AM

Billionaire Ken Griffin says Miami could unseat New York as the world's financial center - after moving his Citadel empire from Chicago | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12754603/Ken-Griffin-Miami-financial-center.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 16, 2023, 12:12:01 PM

Fla generally.   The number of huge asset managers which have slowly moved Ops to Tampa, St Petersburg, plus the entire South Florida region has been quite noteworthy. 

Many of our largest clients have done this in the past few years.  Candidly many have fled from LA and Chicago too.  Citadel is just one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2023, 02:40:20 PM

Any brand of air fryers best?  I see a zillion types.  Cuisinart?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 16, 2023, 02:42:31 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 16, 2023, 02:40:20 PM

Any brand of air fryers best?  I see a zillion types.  Cuisinart?

That's the one I got my wife for her birthday. The biggest one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2023, 03:30:36 PM

I'm getting her a yard stick also.

I read they won't be making them any longer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 16, 2023, 03:49:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 16, 2023, 03:30:36 PM

I'm getting her a yard stick also.

I read they won't be making them any longer.

True, but they may make them shorter if congress does something stupid... again...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 16, 2023, 04:49:12 PM

Huh? What's this? I googled "yard stick Congress" and didn't get anything...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 16, 2023, 11:15:19 PM

...because they don't measure up!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 16, 2023, 11:16:52 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 16, 2023, 02:40:20 PM

Any brand of air fryers best?  I see a zillion types.  Cuisinart?

Whichever one that actually gets some use.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 16, 2023, 11:17:56 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 16, 2023, 10:31:16 AM

Christmas.

Jimmy Buffett's birthday.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2023, 04:14:38 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 16, 2023, 04:49:12 PM

Huh? What's this? I googled "yard stick Congress" and didn't get anything...

Google "Congress and stupid" and let me know what you find.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 17, 2023, 07:35:48 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 16, 2023, 10:31:16 AM

Christmas.

People focus too much on complaining about the Christ and not enough about the mass. Get your backside to Christmas Eve mass or GTFO. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2023, 07:36:35 AM

My wife goes for me...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2023, 09:36:35 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 17, 2023, 07:35:48 AM

People focus too much on complaining about the Christ and not enough about the mass. Get your backside to Christmas Eve mass or GTFO.

We used to avoid "the mass" and Easter because that's when all the yahoos came out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 17, 2023, 09:50:04 AM

yup, I usually went to church 50 weeks a year
leave the other 2 weeks to the folks that wanted a crowded pew

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 17, 2023, 10:09:45 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2023, 04:14:38 AM

Google "Congress and stupid" and let me know what you find.

(https://i.imgur.com/o7Gr5gY.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2023, 10:36:59 AM

That's IT??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2023, 10:38:53 AM

"congress and smart"

About 359,000,000 results (0.36 seconds) 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 17, 2023, 11:36:33 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 17, 2023, 07:35:48 AM

People focus too much on complaining about the Christ and not enough about the mass. Get your backside to Christmas Eve mass or GTFO.

On our honeymoon, we went to the night Mass on Christmas Eve at the Vatican with Papa Frankie.

We stood in line for security next to a family from North Dakota whose son was a seminarian doing a year in Rome at the American seminary. Us tall English speakers have a tendency to draw other English speakers nearby.

The mood inside St Peter's was a blend of respectful Mass with the background intensity of a winner-take-all South American football match. Maybe that came from being seated next to a large group of Brazilians. Add in the organ kicking you in the chest every time it fired up, and it was a very memorable experience. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 17, 2023, 11:45:11 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on November 17, 2023, 11:36:33 AM

On our honeymoon, we went to the night Mass on Christmas Eve at the Vatican with Papa Frankie.

We stood in line for security next to a family from North Dakota whose son was a seminarian doing a year in Rome at the American seminary. Us tall English speakers have a tendency to draw other English speakers nearby.

The mood inside St Peter's was a blend of respectful Mass with the background intensity of a winner-take-all South American football match. Maybe that came from being seated next to a large group of Brazilians. Add in the organ kicking you in the chest every time it fired up, and it was a very memorable experience.

I pretty much only enter a church when it's part of an event for someone I care about (i.e. baptism, wedding, funeral), but even I'd probably go to Christmas Mass at the Vatican. That sounds like a very cool experience.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 17, 2023, 11:53:50 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 17, 2023, 09:50:04 AM

yup, I usually went to church 50 weeks a year
leave the other 2 weeks to the folks that wanted a crowded pew

Yup.  We always called 'em "C and E" people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2023, 12:06:40 PM

We were in an outdoor market in Edinburg and I spotted some blokes selling BBQ.  I had to have some, it was the real thing, not bad, served on a bun with slaw.  I chatted with them a bit.  They were almost sold out, which is a good sign.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2023, 02:17:53 PM

3376 Peachtree Rd NE #57/58, Atlanta, GA 30326 - MLS 7300541 - Coldwell Banker (coldwellbankerhomes.com) (https://www.coldwellbankerhomes.com/ga/atlanta/3376-peachtree-road-ne-57-58/pid_56472278/?fbclid=IwAR2MnSFbLqgnRqsINrFgt0UKrCbw5fKsL-fyJ52PKxDjC0tNVBCLIhIt3P0)

I might be interested, but it's in Buckhead, so we'll stay put.

(https://i.imgur.com/07A4eYA.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 20, 2023, 02:08:13 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/z8LxRP7.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 20, 2023, 06:37:46 PM

Found a little turn of phrase I wrote somewhere back in 2016 and tickled my own fancy reading it again:

Quote

feckless group of sniveling brats simultaneously looking for self-aggrandizement while avoiding responsibility

Who can guess who I was referring to?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 20, 2023, 06:54:31 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 20, 2023, 06:37:46 PM

Found a little turn of phrase I wrote somewhere back in 2016 and tickled my own fancy reading it again:



Who can guess who I was referring to?

UM fans?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 20, 2023, 06:58:02 PM

Congress?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 20, 2023, 07:01:52 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 20, 2023, 06:58:02 PM

Congress?

DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNAH!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 21, 2023, 06:24:15 AM

Sad, but true.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 21, 2023, 06:59:48 AM

Why was this guy on the streets in the first place?

Charges filed, victim remains unresponsive following log attack on the Mag Mile - CWB Chicago (https://cwbchicago.com/2023/11/chicago-magnificent-mile-log-attack-flight-attendant-remains-unresponsive.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 21, 2023, 08:11:40 AM

my youngest daughter is hosting thanksgiving in Lincoln Thursday

I'm bringing the wine.  easy prep.

I have a few favorite reds, but I'd like a couple recommendations for whites and chardonnays that pair well with roasted bird and thanksgiving type meal.

oh, the inexpensive stuff, of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 21, 2023, 08:22:28 AM

I like Josh Chardonnay, all their wines are decent values.  They go for about $10 around here.

Hess is another solid.  If you want a bit upscale, La Crema is good, around $18.  Chateau St. Michelle is solid.  

I personally prefer a sauvignon blanc with a meal that can be a bit greasy, I think it "cuts" better than chard, especially those from CA.

I drink SB with steak on occasion.  

If you can find an affordable Chablis, that's another crisp white chard that can work well.  Costco has one mid-teens priced that is decent.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 21, 2023, 08:24:38 AM

Agree on Le Crema and Chateau wines. Very good. Josh is fine.

I like reds with turkey, actually. I think most would agree.

You don't need a white, really, unless you're doing delicate fish or something like that.

A turkey with all the trimmings? RED.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 21, 2023, 08:27:31 AM

I'll be sippin Red

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 21, 2023, 08:29:32 AM

A friend of mine prefers carbernet franc with turkey etc.  It works.  I'd go with a pinot noir, or maybe a nebbiolo, the pinot noir prices get a bit stiff these days for a decent one.  Louis Jadot makes some burgundies, red and white, that are values.  

I'll probably go with a Sancerre for turkey day, if we have turkey.

And a sparkler, something we Americans tend to overlook when it comes to wines with meals.  A cava or cremant de bourgogne works well.  The carbonation helps cut any grease.  Try one with fried chicken sometime.

(Then there is rose' of course.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 21, 2023, 08:29:44 AM

When in Rome, do as the Romans.

When eating turkey in Nebraska, drink a big bold red.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 21, 2023, 10:02:32 AM

I've found Bordeaux goes with pretty much any and every food.

I might do a "lighter" right bank Bordeaux with fowl or fish, and a "heavier" left bank with meats and stews.

But no matter the pairing, I believe there's a Bordeaux for all occasions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 21, 2023, 10:28:53 AM

Is there a Bordon't?  Or Pinot More?  Chardanoway?

Bold reds to me include zinfandel, Rhone varietals, malbec, Rioja, and a few others.

Incidentally, one of the most overlooked varietals is Gamay/Beaujolais.  There is a nouveau reason for that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 21, 2023, 10:37:42 AM

I like a lot of the Tuscan wines too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 21, 2023, 10:45:58 AM

Brunello di Montalcino is one of my favorites.  They tend to be pricey.

It's kind of a fancy expensive Chianti.

I should mention Barollo as well, a wine that can range from fairly light to really heavy.  And Super Tuscans.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 21, 2023, 11:03:28 AM

This is probably my personal favorite wine.

(https://i.imgur.com/RC0wc0s.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 21, 2023, 11:32:46 AM

To me, Chardonnay is a tricky one to bring. If you don't know Chardonnay, you may not know which one is more clean vs more buttery. And if you don't know your daughters' (or other guests') preferences, you don't know if they prefer a cleaner or more buttery Chardonnay. A lot of people love buttery Chard. My wife drinks a lot of Chard but can't stand buttery. I don't drink a lot of white in general, but if it's a Chard, buttery is an immediate no for me. 

I don't know if you can find it, but there's a dry riesling called "Kung Fu Girl" that would be good, and isn't very expensive. Avoid other riesling if you don't know if it's dry or sweet--huge difference; bringing a sweet riesling will not look good but a dry riesling might blow someone's mind if they say "I don't like sweet wines" and then they realize it's not sweet. Sauvignon Blanc IMHO will be a cleaner wine if you're trying to avoid the buttery Chard minefield, and there should be a lot of good options at an approachable price point. I've grown to enjoy Viognier, however I don't know how many options you'll be able to find at an acceptable price point.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 21, 2023, 11:46:14 AM

I think Chardonnay is the varietal with the greatest range of flavors.  It can be austere (Chablis) or very elegant (white Burgundy) or overly oaky/buttery (KJ) or sparkling (Champagne) or just weird/flabby/tasteless.  The Burgundies vary a fair bit from south to north (and Chablis is technically Burgundy).

Viognier is an interesting option too I think, though the cheaper ones tend to be flabby to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 21, 2023, 11:50:36 AM

I have a great sensible wife.  We had expressed interest in a trip to Paris and London to hear symphonies directed by our local music director.  We were pretty excited about it, and booked our air travel for two weeks planning to do some other family stuff.

We finally got the price, over $10K for the two of us, not including air.  I couldn't believe it.  The hotels are nice but not terrific.  It included some meals and tours.  My wife said "Let's just bag it."  She said the TGV from Marseille to Paris was $500.

So, we shortened up the trip to a week and a bit and are just going around Marseille (where her daughter lives).  Air fare in Comfort was $1840 for two of us.

We'll stay in Marseille and then Aix for four nights and then back to an airport motel our last night.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 21, 2023, 12:45:11 PM

Be sure to pound gallons of bouillabaisse whilst in Marseille.  Man I love that stuff.

 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 21, 2023, 12:54:59 PM

Bouillabaisse, the traditional fish soup | Marseille Tourism (marseille-tourisme.com) (https://www.marseille-tourisme.com/en/discover-marseille/gastronomy-in-marseille/bouillabaisse/)

Brown the onion, garlic and tomatoes over a high heat in olive oil. Add the soup fish, cleaned and cut up, and stir to obtain a paste-like consistency (about 15 minutes). Add boiling water and leave to boil for at least 1 hour.
Add fennel and parsley, salt and pepper. Pass through a food mill, then through a sieve, without forgetting to press the bottom so that the juice runs out.
Add the raw potatoes cut into large slices (2 slices per person), then the fish according to their size and the firmness of their flesh (scorpion fish, Saint-Pierre, fielas, anglerfish).
Boil for 20 minutes. 5 minutes before serving, add the galinettes and the spiders.
Once cooked, remove the fish and potatoes, add salt and pepper, saffron and arrange on serving dishes.
The usual recipe is based on aïoli to which saffron and hot pepper are added.

Another recipe can be made with potatoes and chilli.

Some restaurants have signed the ‘Bouillabaisse charter’ created in 1980 by certain restaurateurs to define the basic ingredients and presentation of this dish in order to ensure its quality. Indeed, this charter was invented because some unscrupulous restaurateurs were using the name ‘bouillabaisse’ to serve any fish soup. Nevertheless, there are some restaurateurs who serve it in the rules of the art, but they did not wish to subscribe to this charter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 21, 2023, 01:09:12 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 21, 2023, 12:45:11 PM

Be sure to pound gallons of bouillabaisse whilst in Marseille.  Man I love that stuff.

 

I like it too, but never had it in Marseille.

Honestly, I prefer cioppino. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 21, 2023, 02:01:21 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 21, 2023, 01:09:12 PM

I like it too, but never had it in Marseille.

Honestly, I prefer cioppino.

It's the Chicagoan in you.

Both are tasty but there's nothing like bouillabaisse in Marseille. 

And much as I love Bordeaux, the local rose' wines from provence are the ultimate pairing for that dish.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 21, 2023, 02:06:38 PM

I've only had it in restaurants here in the States, and one time in Corsica. 

I've never been to mainland France. Not sure if I will, but if I do, Provence it is.

Cioppino is a dish that originated in San Fran. I make it a lot, with Gulf seafood, of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 21, 2023, 02:11:00 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 21, 2023, 02:06:38 PM

I've only had it in restaurants here in the States, and one time in Corsica.

I've never been to mainland France. Not sure if I will, but if I do, Provence it is.

Cioppino is a dish that originated in San Fran. I make it a lot, with Gulf seafood, of course.

Sure but its origins are in Liguria. You Chicagoans love your Italian food.

And I have to say that the Ligurian fisherman's stew I had at a small seaside restaurant in Riomaggiore, Cinque Terre, is among the best dishes I've ever had in all my trips to Europe.

I'd like to try to make some seafood dishes with fresh Gulf fare, but I'm told Texas is landlocked, so what are you gonna do?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 21, 2023, 02:13:44 PM

The seafood in the Cinque Terre was amazing.

Loved this place: https://www.ristorantetortuga.it/en-gb/home

I do love some good Italian food...

...I guess because I'm Chicagoan?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 21, 2023, 02:17:05 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 21, 2023, 02:13:44 PM

The seafood in the Cinque Terre was amazing.

Loved this place: https://www.ristorantetortuga.it/en-gb/home

I do love some good Italian food...

...I guess because I'm Chicagoan?

I mean, lots of people love Italian food, but it does seem to be part of the fabric of Chicago culture, yes?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 21, 2023, 02:37:30 PM

The Italian food you get in Chicago (or New York, or...) is not what you get in Italy.

We all know this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 21, 2023, 02:55:35 PM

There are differences, and there are similarities, of course.

Italian food in NY or Chicago is still based on Italian food from Italy.

And American-Italian is more like Italy-Italian than it is like French or German or Moroccan or Vietnamese food.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 21, 2023, 03:15:01 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 21, 2023, 02:17:05 PM

I mean, lots of people love Italian food, but it does seem to be part of the fabric of Chicago culture, yes? 

I think Chicago has a certain Italian culture, just like pretty much any big city that took in a lot of immigrants around the turn of the 20th century. Not sure that we consider it a "core" identity the way that the NY/NJ or Boston areas do. But yeah, there were a lot of Italians in Chicago and it certainly is part of Chicago's very rich food and cultural scene. And Chicagoans love food, and Italians love food, so there is that commonality :72:

Definitely a strong contrast to nearly anywhere in the South or west of the Mississippi. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 21, 2023, 03:22:47 PM

Lots of Italian food down here. 

There are a lot of Boston, Detroit, Philly, New York and Chicago people here too, which explains the number of Italian restaurants here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 21, 2023, 03:24:01 PM

I haven't spent much time in Boston but as a visitor to the core areas of the three cities, I found Chicago and NY to be much more "Italian" then Boston.  Could be I just missed the Italian-ness in Boston.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 21, 2023, 03:44:36 PM

North End neighborhood in Boston, but there is a lot elsewhere too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 21, 2023, 03:54:38 PM

North End of Boston is the closest I've felt like Italy in the States. The removal of the freeway is doing a number of the grittiness of that end of town. Gentrification and all that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 21, 2023, 03:56:54 PM

We have places called "Little Italy" and "Over the Rhine" and of course "Chinatown", but nothing called "Frenchtown" that I know of, in the US.  I guess it's Quebec.

Baton Rouge?

I'll give a full report on Aix-en-Provence, I just made hotel reservations for four nights there.  We're at the Intercontinental in Marseille.

Aside from daughter, we have a good friend who lives there as well and we'll have lunch with him and his husband (not that there's anything wrong with that).  They both are professors.  He's here right now and coming for dinner here tomorrow.  He does a lot of stuff with Tech.

My wife wanted to go with him to Bacchanalia, but since Michelin chimed in, getting a table any time in a month is impossible.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 21, 2023, 04:14:20 PM

Looking for ideas. The family plays a game called "Mt Rushmore" where we have a topic and we each go around coming up with 4 things that meet that topic--of course if someone takes one you intend to say, it's burned and so you need to have more than 4 things prepared.

Topic tonight: "Historical events that you would change the outcome if you had the power."

I'm drawing a blank...

Thoughts?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 21, 2023, 04:17:50 PM

OK, here's a provocative one, I'd have Germany win WW One ...

And go.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 21, 2023, 04:41:58 PM

Napoleon defeats and conquers Russia, might be a good one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 21, 2023, 05:02:23 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 21, 2023, 04:17:50 PM

OK, here's a provocative one, I'd have Germany win WW One ...

And go.

That isn't terribly unrealistic and it would have had a dramatic impact on history from there forward.  

According to the first random internet search result that I came up with the largest economies in the world as of 1910 were:

• USA
• China
• Germany
• India
• UK
• Russia
• France
• Italy
• Japan
• Poland
• Dutch East Indies
• Spain
• Belgium
• Canada
• Argentina

This particular list, I think, is using modern borders and estimating.  I say that because Poland didn't exist in 1910 (modern territory was part of Germany, Russia, and the Austro-Hungarian Empire.  Similarly, India was part of the UK and the Dutch East Indies were a Dutch possession.  

Also, China, India, the Dutch East Indies, and to a lesser extent Russia are listed here largely because they had really big populations.  In terms of war-making potential the list is something closer to:

• USA
• Germany
• UK
• France
• Italy
• Russia
• Austria-Hungary
• Japan

#2 Germany and #7 Austria-Hungary ended up at war with all the rest.  They couldn't possibly win and they didn't.  However, after Britain's ambassador informed Berlin that the UK would fight for Belgian neutrality there was a last-ditch effort in Berlin to abandon the Schliefen plan (which included invading Belgium solely as a means to get to France) and invade France directly along the short Franco-German border between Luxembourg and Switzerland.  

It would have been an incredible gamble for the Germans because knocking France out quickly was imperative.  If they had respected Belgian neutrality and failed to knock the French out quickly their situation would have been dramatically worse than it was in the actual timeline because the British and Americans would likely have gotten involved if the war dragged on more than a few years anyway.  

On the other hand, given the VAST superiority of German arms over French arms in 1914 it is entirely possible that the Germans could have knocked the French out without going through Belgium so long as the French were unassisted by the British.  Additionally, while the German Fleet was no match for the Royal Navy they would have completely overwhelmed the French Fleet and could possibly have blockaded France and provided support to their army so long as the British were not involved.  Better yet, without the British blockade, the Germans would have been able to continue trading with the British and the Americans.  

The next obvious domino to fall is that with Britain not in the war, Italy would NEVER have joined France and if France's fall became apparent the Italians may well have joined with the Germans and Austro-Hungarians just to get Corsica and some French Mediterranean provinces.  

IF (that is a big IF) the UK had stayed out then there is basically no chance that the USA would have gotten involved leaving Germany with by far the largest and most advanced economy of the combatants.  France and Russia would have had little or no chance of defeating Germany and Austria-Hungary and if the Germans successfully knocked out France then Russia's fall would have just been a matter of time.  

At the conclusion of this war Germany likely annexes a few French border provinces and a whole lot of Eastern territory.  At that point the German economy would have been easily the second largest in the world behind only the USA and Germany was the most technologically advanced nation even before WWI.  

With no Central Powers defeat in WWI there is no Versailles Treaty and thus no Nazi takeover of Germany.  Hitler remains a more-or-less anonymous German veteran of WWI.  Russia probably doesn't become communist because without the French and British in the West to worry about the Germans don't need to send Lennin in to destabilize Russia.  Additionally, with no British Ally and with France falling, the Czar would have known that he had to end the war.  What happens to Russia after that is anyone's guess.  

Fascism may well have taken over in France instead of Germany but France's economy and technology would have made it much less dangerous to the rest of Europe.  

My best guess is that the German Empire would have become more democratic over time.  They already had a Parliament but the Kaiser was much more powerful than the British monarchs.  Germany would likely have become the world's preeminent power as they had the economy and technology to do so with only the USA having a sufficiently large economy to challenge them.  

The USA would be much different today without WWI and WWII.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 21, 2023, 06:43:16 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 21, 2023, 04:14:20 PM

Looking for ideas. The family plays a game called "Mt Rushmore" where we have a topic and we each go around coming up with 4 things that meet that topic--of course if someone takes one you intend to say, it's burned and so you need to have more than 4 things prepared.

Topic tonight: "Historical events that you would change the outcome if you had the power."

I'm drawing a blank...

Thoughts?

Maybe Bush v. Gore in 2000, and not for the obvious political reasons.


I think that election outcome started a paradigm shift for the worse, for everyone.
Regardless of the FL count, it was the first time since 1888 the winner had fewer overall votes (by 500K).  I think that matters in the backs of peoples' minds.  It seems off, even given the electoral college.

It had SCOTUS intervene and seem not to value accuracy as much as timeliness.  Sort of like doing away with instant replay.  I'm not sure that was a good call.

And frankly, Dubya was the first president many people were confident they'd beat at Jeopardy.  I just don't think that having "a guy you'd want to have a beer with" is a plus for a world leader.  I'd prefer they be really smart and boring. 

But the reason I really suggest this event is that maybe we'd be less bi-polar now.  Maybe if everyone had confidence we got the vote tally correct.  Maybe if it was a more status-quo transition.  Maybe a Dem would have been less likely to attack a country that wasn't involved with 9/11. 
Maybe our norms would be stronger now, not having been called into question in 2000 and into 2001.

Maybe?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 21, 2023, 06:45:07 PM

hillary vs Trump????

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 21, 2023, 06:57:22 PM

Maybe just not having 9/11 happen.  Aside from the 3,000+ innocent lives lost, EVERYTHING went sideways after that.  The avalanche of freedoms taken from us.....is just obscene.
.
I'm still embarrassed it happened without guns.  Fucking box-cutters?!?  They hijacked 2 planes with box-cutters.  Try doing that today.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 21, 2023, 07:20:06 PM

What if we never made the Louisiana purchase?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 21, 2023, 09:58:45 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 21, 2023, 06:57:22 PM

Maybe just not having 9/11 happen.  Aside from the 3,000+ innocent lives lost, EVERYTHING went sideways after that.  The avalanche of freedoms taken from us.....is just obscene.

the world as we knew it changed a bit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 21, 2023, 10:52:38 PM

What if Lincoln doesn't win the election?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 21, 2023, 11:01:58 PM

What if Turner Gill starts the 1981 season opener vs Iowa instead of Mark Mauer?
what if the PSU receiver is called out of bounds and no catch in 1982?
What if Jeff Smith catches the 2-point conversion pass in the Orange Bowl after the 1983 season?

what if Osborne doesn't retire after the 97 season?
what if Solich isn't fired after the 2003 season?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 22, 2023, 12:05:44 AM

What if Vince Young came back in 2006?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on November 22, 2023, 12:24:51 AM

Had some deep dish in CA today. Was exquisite. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2023, 05:29:45 AM

Quote from: MarqHusker on November 21, 2023, 10:52:38 PM

What if Lincoln doesn't win the election?

That's a good one indeed ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 22, 2023, 07:52:32 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/TAPjnGg.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2023, 08:10:27 AM

I think most in Congress who are wealthy were that way at point of entry, or married wealth, or wrote some book.  They stay in office for the power feeling important part.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 22, 2023, 09:04:56 AM

https://www.wsj.com/world/china-steps-up-support-for-palestinian-cause-in-challenge-to-u-s-mideast-policy-0cadf1d3?st=khj04a7xj3ll6bn&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink


Interesting read on China's position with the Gaza war.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2023, 09:09:53 AM

Seems like just talk and posturing to me.  China is playing to an audience.

While Beijing can exert some influence in Middle East affairs, thanks to its ties with Iran, its “power to shape events in the region is quite limited,” said Nurettin Akçay, a guest researcher at Shanghai University who has studied China-Middle East relations. “The ongoing crisis has presented certain opportunities for China, but it has also underscored the reality that China lacks the required hard power to pursue its objectives.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 22, 2023, 09:11:43 AM

Correct. But, in this instance, which country is NOT posturing?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2023, 09:14:39 AM

Israel.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 22, 2023, 09:16:11 AM

The only thing term limits accomplish is make the Legislature more reliant on Big Lobby than they already are.

A bigger what if: what if the IJN doesn't raid Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941? The biggest Japanese strategic goal in the early going of the war was to keep the US out of it as long as possible. 

It's one thing for the Japanese to bring the war to Hawaii and drop casus belli into our lap. What is the reaction when the Japanese first direct strike is in the Philippines, a place that 9 out of 10 Americans, then and now, couldn't find on a map with both hands?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 22, 2023, 09:17:18 AM

guest researcher at Shanghai University who has studied China-Middle East relations

EXPERT!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on November 22, 2023, 09:17:29 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 22, 2023, 08:10:27 AM

I think most in Congress who are wealthy were that way at point of entry, or married wealth, or wrote some book.  They stay in office for the power feeling important part.

Ya pelosi,finestein and their ilk dropping their investment portfolio's before the housing market crash and covid.Makes one wonder what other nefarious ways those racketeers compiled their wealth.Always comes in handy once in office they vote themselves lifetime healthcare,never mentioned that on the campaign trail.Yes honest,slow & steady model for capital asset building

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 22, 2023, 09:18:22 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on November 22, 2023, 09:16:11 AM

the Philippines, a place that 9 out of 10 Americans, then and now, couldn't find on a map with both hands?

landlocked

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2023, 09:22:37 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/PCMQ2MN.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 22, 2023, 09:30:29 AM

What if in the early morning of October 12, 1492, the rowboats of Columbus' fleet were attacked and turned away?  Or the ships attacked and burned?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 22, 2023, 09:31:45 AM

The first Thanksgiving Day (actually, a three-day celebration) was held in 1621 in Plymouth, Massachusetts after a successful corn harvest by the Pilgrims. Guests included Chief Massasoit of the Wampanoag tribe.

Abraham Lincoln issued the first proclamation for a nationwide celebration in 1863, at the height of the Civil War. He was responding to a decades-long effort by a noted magazine editor and writer, Sara Josepha Hale to launch Thanksgiving as a national holiday. Interestingly, Ms. Hale is best known for authoring the nursery rhyme “Mary Had a Little Lamb.” Apparently, “Mary Cooked a Big Turkey” was not as popular.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 22, 2023, 09:34:40 AM

Great.

Now I have "Mary Had a Little Lamb" playing in my head now.

Dammit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 22, 2023, 09:37:05 AM

In on page:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rblt2EtFfC4

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 22, 2023, 09:57:22 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 22, 2023, 09:14:39 AM

Israel.

I don't necessarily agree.

This conflict has put our country in a very awkward position. It's been very divisive here, as we've seen.

Pretty effective disruption, fueled by Iran (IMO) to weaken the USA from within itself.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 22, 2023, 10:51:30 AM

Normally, I wouldn't be all gung-ho for any country based on a religion.  But when all your neighbors' goal is to erase you from the planet, yeah, you get a waiver.
I'm glad we blindly? support Israel, because NO ONE else will. 

Thanks to religion, we have a never-ending conflict in the middle east.  Great idea!

But I digress. 

Everyone suggesting Israel is going overboard has never experienced an ongoing nuisance.
Once that nuisance that you could destroy in 2 weeks actually hits you hard, an equal retaliation is no longer gonna cut it.
Hamas, you want to fire rockets and mosquito-bite Israel every few weeks or months, whatever, stop it.  Pew-pew.  Go away.

Oh.....Hamas, now you want to invade, kill, kidnap, and hide? 
NOPE.
Israel should show what "full force" looks like, just in case Hamas doesn't realize the absurd amount of restraint they've benefitted from.  Squash the bug.  Kill it, so it can never harm you again.

Dead innocents? 
Talk to Hamas.  The first words out of my mouth the moment I heard they attacked, killed, and kidnapped Israelies was "welp, a lot of innocent Palestinians are going to die."
Because it was guaranteed.  And Hamas guaranteed it with their actions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2023, 10:55:44 AM

Hamas Israel: Which countries support Israel? Which countries oppose Israel? (smh.com.au) (https://www.smh.com.au/world/middle-east/which-side-countries-that-back-israel-and-those-that-oppose-it-20231011-p5ebiz.html)

In an unusual move, the leaders of France, Germany, Italy and Britain joined the US in making a joint statement of “steadfast and united support to the state of Israel” which condemned Hamas’ “appalling acts of terrorism”.
“Our countries will support Israel in its efforts to defend itself and its people against such atrocities,” said Biden, French President Emmanuel Macron, British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz.
Other Western nations, including [color=var(--colorInlineAnchorAction)]Australia (https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/wong-albanese-urge-restraint-on-civilian-targets-as-conflict-escalates-20231009-p5eaqi.html)[/iurl][/b][/font][/b], Canada and New Zealand have condemned Hamas and made statements of solidarity with Israel.[/font][/size][/color]

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 22, 2023, 10:59:00 AM

Ironically, this is about exactly what I said to my wife when this broke.

The first words out of my mouth the moment I heard they attacked, killed, and kidnapped Israelis was "welp, a lot of innocent Palestinians are going to die."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 22, 2023, 11:09:16 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 22, 2023, 10:59:00 AM

Ironically, this is about exactly what I said to my wife when this broke.

The first words out of my mouth the moment I heard they attacked, killed, and kidnapped Israelis was "welp, a lot of innocent Palestinians are going to die."

I wasn't with anyone to talk to but, those were my exact thoughts

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 22, 2023, 11:25:02 AM

BTW, this is one point at which it's useful to make a reminder... Everyone, everywhere, is all the damn same.

I call it the "Anthony Bourdain model of the world". On his show, he traveled ALL over the place. Sometimes to glitz and glamour (i.e. Copenhagen). Sometimes to war-torn or otherwise shitholes (Haiti, Cambodia, Cuba, Detroit). He traveled to places that we consider our enemies (Iran) as well as those who are sorta(?) our friends in the shadow of our enemies (Kurdistan).

And you know what his show brought to us? The idea that everyone, everywhere, is the damn same. On the ground. The real people. They're just like us. We're just like them.

They want peace and safety for their families. They want enough freedom to offer a better life for their children. They come together as families or communities and share food, merriment, and grief.

It doesn't matter what side of a border you're on. It doesn't matter what religion your parents are (which is the one you "chose" to believe in, >>90% of the time). It doesn't matter what economic system your nation purports to follow. It doesn't matter what color your skin is. All the stuff we layer on top is bullshit that's fed to us by people who want to control us by dividing us.

Everyone, everywhere, is all the damn same.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2023, 11:37:57 AM

Everyone isn't, but most are, in my experiences.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on November 22, 2023, 11:39:38 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 22, 2023, 10:51:30 AM

Normally, I wouldn't be all gung-ho for any country based on a religion.  But when all your neighbors' goal is to erase you from the planet, yeah, you get a waiver.
I'm glad we blindly? support Israel, because NO ONE else will. 

Thanks to religion, we have a never-ending conflict in the middle east.  Great idea!

But I digress. 

Everyone suggesting Israel is going overboard has never experienced an ongoing nuisance.
Once that nuisance that you could destroy in 2 weeks actually hits you hard, an equal retaliation is no longer gonna cut it.
Hamas, you want to fire rockets and mosquito-bite Israel every few weeks or months, whatever, stop it.  Pew-pew.  Go away.

Oh.....Hamas, now you want to invade, kill, kidnap, and hide? 
NOPE.
Israel should show what "full force" looks like, just in case Hamas doesn't realize the absurd amount of restraint they've benefitted from.  Squash the bug.  Kill it, so it can never harm you again.

Dead innocents? 
Talk to Hamas.  The first words out of my mouth the moment I heard they attacked, killed, and kidnapped Israelies was "welp, a lot of innocent Palestinians are going to die."
Because it was guaranteed.  And Hamas guaranteed it with their actions.

Well spoken, and right on the money. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 22, 2023, 11:56:38 AM

Israel doesn't seem to need a lot of support militarily from anyone

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2023, 11:57:11 AM

JFK assassination: 60 years later we know the truth about the real killer (foxnews.com) (https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/jfk-assassination-60-years-later-we-know-truth-about-real-killer)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 22, 2023, 12:08:44 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 22, 2023, 11:57:11 AM

JFK assassination: 60 years later we know the truth about the real killer (foxnews.com) (https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/jfk-assassination-60-years-later-we-know-truth-about-real-killer)

Haven't clicked but I'm guessing based on the source of the article, it was Hunter Biden?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2023, 12:12:48 PM

Paul Gregory is a research fellow at the Hoover Institution and author of "The Oswalds: An Untold Account of Marina and Lee (https://www.hoover.org/research/oswalds-untold-account-marina-and-lee__;!!PxibshUo2Yr_Ta5B!yp_UYpIIi7A5bugRfkvWZbintOKolC3lmJKdafv5--xM4KFGoHrBC26T_swNtSGEfCEHsPk7hDyOcG4_GkU1KJqXfQ$)."

Dude claims he knew Oswald somewhat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on November 22, 2023, 02:28:08 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on November 21, 2023, 10:52:38 PM

What if Lincoln doesn't win the election?

I always wondered how long slavery would have existed in the south had the Union not won the civil war. 

I feel that mechanized labor would have slowly eroded a lot of manual labor and slavery as a whole was winding down at the end of the 1800’s. 

10 more years ? 
20 more years ? 

I’d venture to say it would have been abolished by 1880-1895. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 22, 2023, 02:36:43 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on November 22, 2023, 11:56:38 AM

Israel doesn't seem to need a lot of support militarily from anyone

I heard from some expert person somewhere that while this is true, they need substantial support with ammo.  They have all the fun toys to kill and maim, but lack the volume to use them for very long without help.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 22, 2023, 02:37:19 PM

Quote from: Gigem on November 22, 2023, 02:28:08 PM

I always wondered how long slavery would have existed in the south had the Union not won the civil war.

I feel that mechanized labor would have slowly eroded a lot of manual labor and slavery as a whole was winding down at the end of the 1800’s.

10 more years ?
20 more years ?

I’d venture to say it would have been abolished by 1880-1895.

Just another generation.  No biggie.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2023, 02:37:55 PM

I'd guess before 1900, but the blacks would have remained in bad shape even so.  The remainder of the US could well have split again with states west of the Appalachians going off on their own, and states on the Pacific doing the same.  Lincoln worried about this as well and pushed for the TC RR even during the war.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 22, 2023, 02:46:50 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 22, 2023, 02:37:55 PM

I'd guess before 1900, but the blacks would have remained in bad shape even so. 

All blacks?


(https://i.imgur.com/szEwdSf.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2023, 04:43:27 PM

I had my physical, and had an interesting discussion with my Doc about the RSV vaccine.  He says he is the Vaccine King, but basically talked me out of getting it.

I did get the Prevnar 20 pneumonia update.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 23, 2023, 08:26:39 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 22, 2023, 11:25:02 AM

BTW, this is one point at which it's useful to make a reminder... Everyone, everywhere, is all the damn same.

I call it the "Anthony Bourdain model of the world". On his show, he traveled ALL over the place. Sometimes to glitz and glamour (i.e. Copenhagen). Sometimes to war-torn or otherwise shitholes (Haiti, Cambodia, Cuba, Detroit). He traveled to places that we consider our enemies (Iran) as well as those who are sorta(?) our friends in the shadow of our enemies (Kurdistan).

And you know what his show brought to us? The idea that everyone, everywhere, is the damn same. On the ground. The real people. They're just like us. We're just like them.

They want peace and safety for their families. They want enough freedom to offer a better life for their children. They come together as families or communities and share food, merriment, and grief.

It doesn't matter what side of a border you're on. It doesn't matter what religion your parents are (which is the one you "chose" to believe in, >>90% of the time). It doesn't matter what economic system your nation purports to follow. It doesn't matter what color your skin is. All the stuff we layer on top is bullshit that's fed to us by people who want to control us by dividing us.

Everyone, everywhere, is all the damn same.

(https://i.imgur.com/Jlxf7P7.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 23, 2023, 10:09:53 AM

https://www.chron.com/culture/article/how-many-texans-move-california-18509867.php

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 23, 2023, 10:13:22 AM

coming back home to roost?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 23, 2023, 10:15:01 AM

Young men, often, are pretty easily swayed with constant propaganda.  They can be, and often are, manipulated into rather heinous behaviors by others, usually older men clinging to power.  They are not "like us", I'd submit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 23, 2023, 11:13:23 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 23, 2023, 10:09:53 AM

https://www.chron.com/culture/article/how-many-texans-move-california-18509867.php

I Thank Them For Their Support

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 23, 2023, 11:33:10 AM

I just communicated with razorchique on FB and she say's they are in for Nashvegas.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 23, 2023, 12:53:36 PM

I'm old enough to recall water fountains labeled White Only and "Negro".  I asked my Dad why they were like that and he said "Shouldn't be".

The latter water fountain was unpleasant.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2023, 07:44:33 AM

As is tradition, today is continuing education day. Need 6 more hours to renew my P.E. license next week, and the topics for today are storm surge and coastal hydraulics.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2023, 08:01:26 AM

Black Friday Sale - Page 1 - Tastes of Chicago | Tastes of Chicago (https://www.tastesofchicago.com/black-friday-sale/)

Some good stuff here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2023, 08:04:35 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/2SkPHyd.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2023, 08:24:39 AM

My wife has used the new air fryer twice now, she says she's going to use it often.  She has it in a prominent spot in our small kitchen.  

It quit working yesterday for a minute.  I discovered it threw a breaker.  We have a small fridge on that circuit and have to turn it off if we fire up the electric grill or the AF.

Anyway, she likes it.  We haven't really used it for frying air yet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 24, 2023, 08:52:39 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 24, 2023, 08:01:26 AM

Black Friday Sale - Page 1 - Tastes of Chicago | Tastes of Chicago (https://www.tastesofchicago.com/black-friday-sale/)

Some good stuff here.

I'll check it out

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on November 24, 2023, 10:33:36 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 24, 2023, 08:24:39 AM

My wife has used the new air fryer twice now, she says she's going to use it often.  She has it in a prominent spot in our small kitchen. 

It quit working yesterday for a minute.  I discovered it threw a breaker.  We have a small fridge on that circuit and have to turn it off if we fire up the electric grill or the AF.

Anyway, she likes it.  We haven't really used it for frying air yet.

Air Fryer is nice, but cleaning it up is a pain, so we dont use it very often

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 24, 2023, 11:13:22 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 24, 2023, 08:24:39 AM

My wife has used the new air fryer twice now, she says she's going to use it often.  She has it in a prominent spot in our small kitchen. 

It quit working yesterday for a minute.  I discovered it threw a breaker.  We have a small fridge on that circuit and have to turn it off if we fire up the electric grill or the AF.

Anyway, she likes it.  We haven't really used it for frying air yet.

The best part is you can throw both thawed or frozen meat in.  Convenient.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2023, 02:21:28 PM

We went for a walk and stopped at a place we like a lot, the sun was out, we sat outside, had an excellent meal.

Apres Diem | Atlanta| Socially distanced tables outdoors and indoors : Apres Diem (https://apresdiem.com/)

This is on the other side of the park from us, about a mile, nice walk.

I had seafood linguini and my wife had a gyro.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 24, 2023, 02:40:47 PM

For page 2001:

https://youtu.be/e-QFj59PON4?si=bblXYcT6zFCongqj

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 24, 2023, 04:27:19 PM

For USCe?
(starts at 4:00)
2001: A Cock Odyssey (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFmXn4jNA6c)
.
Or Ric Flair?
Woooo! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjWCZ6btzW4)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 25, 2023, 06:50:16 AM

We cooked the Kroger turkey and stuff.  Turkey was very good.  It was supposed to be cooked frozen but my wife had it in the fridge.  It was to be cooked in the bags, turned out there were two of them.  I poked the themoprobe through them and set it for 160°F and let it rest 30 minutes in the bags.  One of the best turkey meat I've had.

She tried to make her mom's famous dressing but frankly it was not very good, to me, I didn't say anything.  The Kroger green bean casserole was so so.  Turned out to be pretty easy overall and not too much left over for the two of us.

I thought a bit about going to the Tech game.  Turns out face value for bad seats are $100.  Is that normal for games these days?  End zone upper deck.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 25, 2023, 07:05:38 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 25, 2023, 06:50:16 AM

We cooked the Kroger turkey and stuff.  Turkey was very good.  It was supposed to be cooked frozen but my wife had it in the fridge.  It was to be cooked in the bags, turned out there were two of them.  I poked the themoprobe through them and set it for 160°F and let it rest 30 minutes in the bags.  One of the best turkey meat I've had.

She tried to make her mom's famous dressing but frankly it was not very good, to me, I didn't say anything.  The Kroger green bean casserole was so so.  Turned out to be pretty easy overall and not too much left over for the two of us.

I thought a bit about going to the Tech game.  Turns out face value for bad seats are $100.  Is that normal for games these days?  End zone upper deck.

When Georgia is in the house? 

Seems cheap.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 25, 2023, 07:07:36 AM

I finished the Coastal hydraulics and design stuff.

Lots of assumptions, is what I gleaned. I would not call myself qualified to practice in that area, is what I also gleaned. I'd have to learn more, from experts. Not doing that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 25, 2023, 07:11:01 AM

I dunno if they price tickets according to opponent.  I saw an ad from Tech about single tickets being available, and their cheapest was $100.  

Stubhub has one for $85 right now.  They generally only sell out against UGA and Clemson.  Whatever, it's a night game and supposed to be cold here.  OK, chilly anyway.

I'll watch at home.

It's an old stadium that isn't very attractive.  Supposedly Tech isn't good against the run, which is probably not a good recipe for them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 25, 2023, 07:24:07 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 25, 2023, 07:11:01 AM

I dunno if they price tickets according to opponent.  I saw an ad from Tech about single tickets being available, and their cheapest was $100. 

Stubhub has one for $85 right now.  They generally only sell out against UGA and Clemson.  Whatever, it's a night game and supposed to be cold here.  OK, chilly anyway.

I'll watch at home.

It's an old stadium that isn't very attractive.  Supposedly Tech isn't good against the run, which is probably not a good recipe for them.

Most (if not all) B1G schools are doing that. Mine does.

Ohio State was more expensive than Rutgers. Duh.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 25, 2023, 07:39:22 AM

It makes sense to do it.  I'd guess Tech doesn't sell out often.

Georgia Tech football on track for lowest attendance in over 30 years (sportsbusinessjournal.com) (https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Daily/Issues/2021/11/16/Colleges/Georgia-Tech.aspx)

That is for 2021.  It may be up this year as they did get bowl eligible.  They just aren't going to be competitive in the future I think.  

The announced attendance for Georgia Tech's game last Saturday against Boston College was 31,511, the "lowest for a Tech home game since a November 1989 game." Average attendance for the team's six home dates this season, including the game at Mercedes-Benz Stadium against North Carolina, "is 34,956." 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on November 25, 2023, 07:54:44 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 25, 2023, 07:24:07 AM

Most (if not all) B1G schools are doing that. Mine does.

Ohio State was more expensive than Rutgers. Duh.

The single game price for my seats for today's Axe game is $95.

Speaking of which, anyone want to go today? We've suddenly got a bunch of tickets that aren't being used. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 25, 2023, 08:15:08 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on November 25, 2023, 07:54:44 AM

The single game price for my seats for today's Axe game is $95.

Speaking of which, anyone want to go today? We've suddenly got a bunch of tickets that aren't being used.

Wait for me. I'll be up in a minute.


(https://i.imgur.com/ZTDXCLj.png)

Eh... not gonna make it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 25, 2023, 08:50:02 AM

Dynamic pricing has been in heavy use in sports for some time now.  The slightly different practice of pricing single games of specific opponents in college is older than dynamic pricing models.

Airlines were really the first large scale industry to introduce it to retail about 45 years ago.

Many popular attractions now use dynamic pricing, ex museums, theaters, zoos, theme parks,  etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 25, 2023, 08:57:52 AM

I figure airlines and hotels use an algorithm computing whether a flight/hotel is filling up as fast as the model predicts, and if not, the price drops, and vice versa.  We've experienced the obvious huge shifts in prices flying to France in summer versus winter.  I'd guess they have fewer flights in winter as well.  Hotels can't do that of course.

I just booked a Doubletree in Gainesville, FL for $111 (pretax) for January.  We like to break up the drive to North Port going down.

College football programs could make more if they priced the way Stubhub does, I'd guess.  Maybe they will offer that at some point.  Maybe TV is so dominant it's not worth it.

There are no stadium expansions going on now, are there?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on November 25, 2023, 09:08:58 AM

I'd argue just about every stadium should be going in the other direction and right size in some effort to compete to keep the fan coming to the game. I'm not aware of any major expansion projects in flight.  There are a ton of old and not very accommodating big stadiums in the P5.  

Nebraska's pending project will be very very disruptive but it is much more of a rebuild of large sections than anything else.   There will be a reduction in seating capacity. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 25, 2023, 09:19:18 AM

Cincinnati Football: John Cunningham to consider expanding Nippert Stadium (cincyontheprowl.com) (https://cincyontheprowl.com/2022/06/18/cincinnati-football-john-cunningham-consider-expanding-nippert-stadium/)

UC is looking at expanding, but it's small today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 25, 2023, 09:25:12 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 25, 2023, 08:57:52 AM

I figure airlines and hotels use an algorithm computing whether a flight/hotel is filling up as fast as the model predicts, and if not, the price drops, and vice versa.  We've experienced the obvious huge shifts in prices flying to France in summer versus winter.  I'd guess they have fewer flights in winter as well.  Hotels can't do that of course.

I just booked a Doubletree in Gainesville, FL for $111 (pretax) for January.  We like to break up the drive to North Port going down.

College football programs could make more if they priced the way Stubhub does, I'd guess.  Maybe they will offer that at some point.  Maybe TV is so dominant it's not worth it.

There are no stadium expansions going on now, are there?

TV is catching up but at Texas >50% of the budget or >$100M per year of revenue still comes from football game ticket sales, parking, concessions, merchandise, etc.  

I suppose you could try and price stadium tickets that way but athletic departments need consistency of revenue streams, about as much as they need the money itself.  PRe-selling tickets, and requiring foundation donations for season ticket priority, provides consistent revenue.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 25, 2023, 09:39:47 AM

I paid $40 yesterday for a seat in row 10 on the 20 yard line.
Good seat for the money 

Shitty game 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 27, 2023, 08:30:24 AM

TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Jimi Hendrix (1942)
One of the tragic figures of 1960s pop music, the left-handed Hendrix taught himself to play the guitar, which he held upside down. His appearance at the Monterey Pop Festival in 1967 and the success of the album Are You Experienced? lifted him to instant stardom. A year after his legendary performance at Woodstock in 1969, Hendrix died at age 27 of an apparently accidental barbiturate overdose.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 28, 2023, 07:40:33 AM

Gas prices drop more than 60 days in a row | CNN Business (https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/28/economy/gas-prices-drop-consumer-spending/index.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 28, 2023, 05:20:59 PM

let's go Joe!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 29, 2023, 02:42:30 PM

In other news, I've been trying to varied success to reduce my consumption of alcohol.  I usually don't feel hung over, but Sunday morning I did feel a bit like my hair was on fire.  So, I've had zero since Saturday night.  I got into bourbon after some wine watching foosball, which is from de Debil.

I'm hoping to drop a few lbs before baseball starts up in six weeks.  My pitching lessons exceeded any expectation of productivity.;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 29, 2023, 03:07:26 PM

Restauranteur unveiled for historic, converted Midtown funeral home | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/portman-restaurant-unveiled-historic-midtown-funeral-home-images?fbclid=IwAR21HAjRIIfhlBSg1XNuKqXJk_MwzrKe5GCy6peHcsReBf0hN1ks-H45IPY)

Kinda weird, my wife is not very up for this, the funeral home was designated "historical" so they built buildings all around it and now plan for it to be a restaurant, a rather large one by floor space.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 29, 2023, 03:26:01 PM

This happened this morning in my neighborhood: https://patch.com/california/missionviejo/house-fire-breaks-out-mission-viejo-wednesday-morning

It's <1/4mi as the crow flies. Apparently whatever started it was loud enough that my wife woke up and so did the dog, but since there was no continued noise, she thought nothing of it--and then heard tons of sirens but didn't realize they were in our neighborhood. 

I got up at my normal time and on my dog-walking route went right past that cross street, seeing it blocked off with sheriff's tape and TONS of emergency vehicles on that street. Based on the normal gossip dog-walking circuit, people think it might have been a gas line which went kaboom... 

So that's been my excitement for the day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 29, 2023, 03:34:20 PM

Wow!  If it's natural gas, it's not usually pressurized to more than like 1/4 PSI for residential delivery lines.  So it if went BOOM then it must have been building up in a poorly ventilated space for a while.  That's scary stuff!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 29, 2023, 03:45:52 PM

Yeah, from the discussions I had walking the dog, there was someone else who said her house shook. 

Of course, we're talking about people who don't know anything, so it could just be rumor and the cause was something else exploding. 

It also looks like the house was under contract for sale, as of 2 days ago. Not sure what to make of that. But I'm guessing the buyer no longer wants it :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on November 29, 2023, 04:12:48 PM

yikes

Reminds me of the client of a realtor friend of mine.  We had a hailstorm back in June that messed up a lot of roofs in the Austin area.  His client had a pretty high deductible but knew he wasn't going to be able to sell the house with the old roof, so he went ahead and paid $10,000 to replace the $30,000 roof.

He put it on the market, had a pending sale, and then another hailstorm hit.  The second was much worse and was enough to damage even brand new shingles.

So the client is out another $10,000 out of pocket to replace the roof.

Ooof, that sucks.

Coincidentally, I too had roof damage from that first storm, and finally got around to calling it in a couple months ago.  Just this morning, 3 pallets of shingles and other roof materials were delivered to my driveway and tomorrow the install should occur.

Big difference for me-- my $30,000 roof replacement is only costing me $1,000 on the deductible.

Lesson-- it ALWAYS hails in Central Texas, a big one every 6-8 years.  Better make sure it doesn't bankrupt you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on November 29, 2023, 04:16:22 PM

Quote from: utee94 on November 29, 2023, 04:12:48 PM

yikes

Reminds me of the client of a realtor friend of mine.  We had a hailstorm back in June that messed up a lot of roofs in the Austin area.  His client had a pretty high deductible but knew he wasn't going to be able to sell the house with the old roof, so he went ahead and paid $10,000 to replace the $30,000 roof.

He put it on the market, had a pending sale, and then another hailstorm hit.  The second was much worse and was enough to damage even brand new shingles.

So the client is out another $10,000 out of pocket to replace the roof.

coulda been smarter and just caused a small gas leak - BOOM
collect the insurance!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 29, 2023, 04:56:44 PM

This could be the best ad of the season — or, maybe, the decade - Deacon Greg Kandra (thedeaconsbench.com) (https://thedeaconsbench.com/this-could-be-the-best-tv-ad-of-the-season-or-maybe-the-decade/?fbclid=IwAR2Edc4qNNvVGOgqOms8xTu-xtl56MPail5aAkS6IIF6WUMVuDiUXhTuyOc)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2023, 12:17:13 PM

U.S. life expectancy rose in 2022, but not enough to erase the pandemic's toll (nbcnews.com) (https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/us-life-expectancy-rose-2022-not-enough-erase-pandemics-toll-rcna127024)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on November 30, 2023, 05:20:41 PM

https://twitter.com/ChrisVannini/status/1730336311209279511?t=aVxrI0uO3TPrmZNCLF9OhA&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 01, 2023, 06:35:32 PM

https://youtu.be/EB1ZRU6QVao

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2023, 05:55:45 AM

Travel planning can be exhausting at times, but I recall when we had to phone for reservations and stuff.  No email confirmations.

I was a AAA member so I could get those books with motels in them in places we were going.

Our traveling is about to get somewhat intense.  We just got our air for Japan, so I'm making hotel reservations in Tokyo and Seoul.  It's on American Airlines, which is a pity as we have zero status with them.  But it's way cheaper than doing it myself.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 02, 2023, 09:21:47 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 02, 2023, 05:55:45 AM

Travel planning can be exhausting at times, but I recall when we had to phone for reservations and stuff.  No email confirmations.

I was a AAA member so I could get those books with motels in them in places we were going.

Our traveling is about to get somewhat intense.  We just got our air for Japan, so I'm making hotel reservations in Tokyo and Seoul.  It's on American Airlines, which is a pity as we have zero status with them.  But it's way cheaper than doing it myself.

Get this while you are on board:

AAdvantage® Aviator® Red World Elite Mastercard® | Barclays US (barclaycardus.com) (https://cards.barclaycardus.com/banking/cards/aadvantage-aviator-red-world-elite-mastercard/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2023, 09:30:04 AM

Meh, our problem is that 90% of flights we would take from here are on Delta.  I doubt I'd use AA again unless we got booked bia the cruise line.

I got the United card for that reason before our flights on Air Canada.  Now I have some miles on United I likely would never use.

I think my wife said she had applied for that card already.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 02, 2023, 09:38:13 AM

They have two - Barclay's and Citi. I have Barclay's and my wife has Citi.

It's nice to board Group 2 and sit in the better seats for no upcharge. Two free checked bags each, if we wanted (we don't) that come out before anyone else's do. This is a nice thing at the bigger airports.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 04, 2023, 09:23:02 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/DC2vZqV.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 04, 2023, 09:51:11 AM

Guy never heard of straps, apparently.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 05, 2023, 08:13:34 AM

This might be good news.

https://www.wsj.com/health/healthcare/prescription-drug-costs-cvs-pharmacy-56acb623?st=bnjgndhl7edc628&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 05, 2023, 03:24:11 PM

A bit of weirdness here ... a Lyft ride to the airport is $56.46 from here.  Checker Cab charges $38.

It would be $2 on MARTA, but my wife says we have too much luggage to walk to the station.

Some resident gave my wife a phone number to call some dude and he charged us $65 a while back, nice enough dude and all, but not worth the extra money, at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 05, 2023, 03:28:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 05, 2023, 03:24:11 PM

A bit of weirdness here ... a Lyft ride to the airport is $56.46 from here.  Checker Cab charges $38.

It would be $2 on MARTA, but my wife says we have too much luggage to walk to the station.

Some resident gave my wife a phone number to call some dude and he charged us $65 a while back, nice enough dude and all, but not worth the extra money, at all.

Does Lyft have some sort of surge pricing going on b/c it's busy right now? Is it normally lower than this for Lyft? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 05, 2023, 03:33:29 PM

A few years back, I used Lyft exclusively for this, then post COVID, the rates about doubled.  They no longer are close to competitive with cabs, and the cabs are just as nice/clean/whatever.  The cab company has a fixed rate by area.  I'm not sure how Lyft/Uber are hanging around now, what once was a really neat phone feature now is pricey crap.  Maybe a shorter cab ride is pricier.

I'm fine walking to the MARTA station, but my wife is apparently delicate.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 05, 2023, 03:52:15 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 05, 2023, 03:28:35 PM

Does Lyft have some sort of surge pricing going on b/c it's busy right now? Is it normally lower than this for Lyft?

I don't know about here, but in Illinois, Lyft/Uber must charge rates comparable to cabbies when going to/from the airports. It's a union thing, of course.

A private driver from here to RSW is $60.00. Uber was $35.00 when we used it last. It's 45 minutes without traffic.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 05, 2023, 03:58:17 PM

Speaking of MARTA, they are slowly rebuilding the various stations often incorporating retail and residential with them.  The main downtown station is due to a $206 million overhaul, which will be interesting.  I'd probably put the money elsewhere, but whatever.

(https://i.imgur.com/LrMyB0N.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on December 05, 2023, 05:54:15 PM

Just rolled into Vegas. 

First time to take an Uber. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 05, 2023, 06:27:18 PM

in my limited experience... cabs are less expensive than uber

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 05, 2023, 06:39:25 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 05, 2023, 03:52:15 PM

I don't know about here, but in Illinois, Lyft/Uber must charge rates comparable to cabbies when going to/from the airports. It's a union thing, of course.

A private driver from here to RSW is $60.00. Uber was $35.00 when we used it last. It's 45 minutes without traffic.

I think the venture capital ran out. They actually have to try to turn a profit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 05, 2023, 07:00:47 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 05, 2023, 03:24:11 PM

A bit of weirdness here ... a Lyft ride to the airport is $56.46 from here.  Checker Cab charges $38.

It would be $2 on MARTA, but my wife says we have too much luggage to walk to the station.

Some resident gave my wife a phone number to call some dude and he charged us $65 a while back, nice enough dude and all, but not worth the extra money, at all.

Damn!
I paid $60 for a van from H-J to Augusta.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on December 05, 2023, 08:20:33 PM

Uber from Las Vegas airport to Venetian hotel $25. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 05, 2023, 09:46:48 PM

That’s a shorter ride. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 05, 2023, 10:12:18 PM

Breaking news- Michigan self-imposes bowl ban.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2023, 08:52:57 AM

I amuse myself each morning by scanning the web sites of most US news outfits.  They often describe very different worlds out there.  The network news sites are the same, mostly, eager reports on the latest Taylor Swift news and  of course photos of some babe in a scanty bathing suit somewhere.

I find the "straightest" news sources are the business news channels/outlets, maybe because that's mostly the news of interest to me.

I get an email from the NYT each morning which is free, and at times interesting, often not really.  They mangle some things at times of course, often relating to gun crime.

A person who looks only at news he likes is going to live in a different world than someone similar who is on the other side.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 06, 2023, 09:11:14 AM

Wall Street Journal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 06, 2023, 09:47:38 AM

Yup.  It, too, has some political leanings, but I believe it to be more objective than all of the other MSM outlets.

And unlike the other outlets, whatever political leanings it has, tend to be policy-based rather than infantile identity-politics-based.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2023, 09:48:23 AM

I just scan web sites and open anything that looks to be of interest.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 06, 2023, 10:01:52 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 06, 2023, 09:47:38 AM

Yup.  It, too, has some political leanings, but I believe it to be more objective than all of the other MSM outlets.

And unlike the other outlets, whatever political leanings it has, tend to be policy-based rather than infantile identity-politics-based.

That's why I have it.

And the lean goes both ways with the WSJ.

Editorials and commentary lean right. Other sections lean left. I like the balance - which is rare these days.

I used to religiously read the Chicago Tribune. It had balance. Now, it's impossible to read for many, unless you really like what's happening to Chicago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2023, 10:10:09 AM

I scan the WSJ at my brokerage firm up the street at times.  For me, it's really TMI.  I prefer to sit here and scan on line whatever I want to read.

I generally find the business sites less often with a clear agenda than the so called "news" sites, any of them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on December 06, 2023, 10:10:21 AM

Quote from: Gigem on December 05, 2023, 05:54:15 PM

Just rolled into Vegas.

First time to take an Uber.

Always found cabs much easier in vegas.  Easy to get anywhere and quickly

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2023, 10:22:14 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/p0gQwCQ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 08, 2023, 10:44:41 AM

Speaking of billionaires, this Blank fellow has spread his money around town, often with his name attached (which is OK with me).

Images: Glassy tower named for Arthur Blank tops out over Peachtree | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/shepherd-center-tower-arthur-blank-tops-out-peachtree-road?fbclid=IwAR0Olxfu1a4lh3OEZWf8xJpEBQvpKPyZa2tfg47SQywJgvFxqKLULF1ZltE)

This one is for families with patients being treated next door at the hospital for whatever.  He also largely funded the new Children's Hospital,.  I'm told his partner (Home Depot) does the same without the publlicity.

Arthur M. Blank Hospital | Children's Healthcare of Atlanta (choa.org) (https://www.choa.org/about-us/arthur-m-blank-hospital)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 09, 2023, 02:25:32 AM

I just let the algorithm decide which articles will piss me off the most, then go out into the world.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2023, 10:00:37 AM

New high-speed rail could link to Atlanta airport, White House says | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/new-high-speed-rail-atl-airport-charlotte-white-house-says)

Looks to me like political spin, not something with any reality (or funding) to it.

I still lean to thinking HSR will be obsolete before it's finished anywhere, unless you count Brightline in FL.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2023, 10:03:58 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/dYsvoOZ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 11, 2023, 10:19:17 AM

That's pretty much our setup when we go camping. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2023, 10:24:33 AM

My wife is very opposed to RVs of any ilk.  As you know, in France, it has different connotations.

Before I met her, I considered "pulling the plug" on living in one place and residing solely in some reasonably small but comfortable RV.  I'd drive about seeing sights and perhaps find a place I liked for a while and then move on.  It still sounds a bit appealing to me now, but not to her, at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 11, 2023, 10:42:08 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 11, 2023, 10:24:33 AM

My wife is very opposed to RVs of any ilk.  As you know, in France, it has different connotations.

Before I met her, I considered "pulling the plug" on living in one place and residing solely in some reasonably small but comfortable RV.  I'd drive about seeing sights and perhaps find a place I liked for a while and then move on.  It still sounds a bit appealing to me now, but not to her, at all.

My i s c & a aggie wife absolutely wants to pull the plug and travel, so that's basically our plan as we near retirement and beyond.  

We'll have a reasonably-sized house on some property out in the middle of nowhere, to act as a homebase and a place where the kids can return and meet us should they choose to.  It'll also have a shed/barn for storing the RV.    Beyond that, we'll  be traveling quite a bit.

Unless we scrap that plan entirely, buy some property on a tropical island in the Caribbean, and cut ties from all you gringos forever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 11, 2023, 10:44:02 AM

I can't envision doing it before retiring. I look at RVs in the same way as I look at boats--if you're not going to use it a TON, it's not really worth owning. And I know with my lifestyle that I would be using one sparingly, which makes it not worth it. 

Post-retirement, I could definitely see it. Especially if I've moved away from my kids, or if my kids have moved away from me. The ability to travel whenever I want, with everything I "need", never having to worry about hotels or whatnot, would be enticing. Especially with a dog (assuming we still have dogs at that point), since I wouldn't want to be traveling constantly if my dog had to be boarded each time... With an RV we could just bring the dog(s) with us. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2023, 10:50:57 AM

My notion was post retirement, though I considered getting an RV ahead of time to "try it out" and get used to it.  I know there is some work associated with maintenance of the various and sundry.  I could decide it was too much hassle and I'd just stay in Hiltons instead (as I do pretty much today).

We had a family reunion in Townsend, TN 20+ years ago.  My cousins had RVs, I rented a little cabin in the RV park for me and my kids.  It was nice (until my son put some poison ivy in the fire we had going).  We of course explored their RVs, they were all monsters, 28+ feet as I recall.

When we pass one on the road I say on occasion "That could be us!" and my wife says "That could be YOU."

We do a fair bit of travel now outside NA where an RV really isn't an option.  Of course, our hotels in France this next trip are running $250 a night and up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 11, 2023, 10:55:13 AM

Yeah I say pre-retirement since in my current job and a range of similar jobs for this company, or similar companies, I could do it from anywhere.

But of course that's not really true for my wife, she has to build up a base for her clientele and changing geography all the time isn't really conducive to that.

As far as the practicality of a boat or RV, it's not.  There's no way to justify owning either, if you're thinking about ROI or net usage.  On a bad year, we'll only use the RV for about 2-3 weeks total, which includes maybe one solid week, and a bunch of weekends.  On a good year, it's more like 3-5 weeks.  Even still, the RV is sitting idle for 90% of the year.

HOWEVER, when I'd decided to get rid of the Airstream and was balking at the cost of buying new, more modern replacement, my mom of all people-- who is decidedly frugal-- told me this: "Your kids are not going to be small forever, you're running out of time to spend with them, and if they love it and you love it, then this is one of the best ways you're going to have, to make some lasting memories with them."  And she was completely right.  The only ROI you have on something like that, is making memories.

So I get the RV out as much as our schedules allow, and we have a great time, and then it sits idle most of the year, and that's okay with me.  Because the memories are worth it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on December 11, 2023, 11:12:12 AM

Vegas was OK.  We did a lot of walking, ~9 miles on one day.  We did take a few ubers, no cabs.  And we rode the train/tram, whatever they call it.  We also took Elon Musks tunnel.  

Two days was great, 3rd day could not get out of there fast enough.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 11, 2023, 11:21:51 AM

Two days in Vegas has always been enough for me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 11, 2023, 11:33:11 AM

0 days in Vegas is already too many for me. 

I try to avoid going there unless there's something I can't do anywhere else. I.e. when we went to Vegas for Adele, we left Saturday morning, drove in, had dinner, saw the show, and we were on the road headed back home by ~8 AM Sunday morning. 

It's an outrageous city full of outrageous people and I have very little use for it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 11, 2023, 12:11:26 PM

yup, if I go there I try to do other things than vegas things

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on December 11, 2023, 12:14:59 PM

I haven't been to Vegas in ten years, and I couldn't stand being there for very long then.

That said, the first time I went to Vegas was in 2007, and the town was full of drunk Brits cheering on Ricky Hatton.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2023, 12:31:25 PM

We usually go for three days, and gamble one night, usually for an hour.  Aside from casinos, the weather can be nicer than here at times and one can lounge by the pool.  There also are two very nice state parks not far away we like.  We've used it as a base to journey to the various NPs in Utah and Grand Canyon and Pace, AZ, etc.  Rental cars are usually cheap.  I had a Mustang convertible and we drove through Death Valley and into Yosemite and down through King's Canyon and Sequoia.  Nice trip.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 11, 2023, 12:36:19 PM

yup, if you stay away from the strip and Fremont Street and the casinos, which isn't easy, it's a fine city with good weather.
I've even given thought to retiring there.
Cheap flights and lodging and transportation for friends and family to visit or for me to travel to see them
Plenty of golf courses and no snow, to speak of

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2023, 12:52:24 PM

I was looking for a Terminator doll and found them, finally, on Aisle B, back.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 11, 2023, 02:20:01 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 11, 2023, 11:33:11 AM

0 days in Vegas is already too many for me.

I try to avoid going there unless there's something I can't do anywhere else. I.e. when we went to Vegas for Adele, we left Saturday morning, drove in, had dinner, saw the show, and we were on the road headed back home by ~8 AM Sunday morning.

It's an outrageous city full of outrageous people and I have very little use for it.

A TV commercial for Vegas is plenty for me.

BUT

Mrs. 847 is a Raider fan (puke) and wants to go see them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 11, 2023, 02:26:00 PM

Raider fan?  Ewwwwwww

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 11, 2023, 02:33:00 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 11, 2023, 02:26:00 PM

Raider fan?  Ewwwwwww

Born and raised in Walnut Creek, CA.

It's really her only fault.

Went to St. Cloud State in Minnesota, but I'm truly thankful she didn't go my school's most hated rivel. ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2023, 02:34:34 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 11, 2023, 12:36:19 PM

I've even given thought to retiring there.

We did too, a while back, spent some time looking around.  The suburbs were typical, really, not much walkable.  Downtown was not appealing.  There might be a golf oriented area that would be OK for golfers.  No income tax state.

We considered basically everywhere we traveled in the US.  My wife is a very firm NO on living in France, which is interesting.  We take a lot for granted.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 11, 2023, 03:01:31 PM

How's the property taxes, I wonder?

I've always thought as much as I don't want to, retiring in Louisiana might be a good way to go.  Property taxes are so low they are effectively negligible, and you can get more housing/land for your money than in many other places. 

I can't figure out how anybody ever retires in Texas, with the property taxes we have here. 

"Texas" is "taxes" with the vowels inverted.  Although we don't have income or grocery tax here, which is nice for the working years.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 11, 2023, 03:19:49 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 11, 2023, 10:19:17 AM

That's pretty much our setup when we go camping. :)

Went out in tent,little coleman stoves and one propane heater between 3 of us.Roughed it in Ohio Wayne National Forest,very Deep Woods - December Deer Camp,got greeted with sleet and rain on/off from Sunday - Thursday.Temps stayed from 28-40 Never really got dry once both sets of Walls/Carhart Coveralls got damp needed a cabin,hotel room for that.Even with using polypropylene underwear and wool over that,when it's 20/30s and your damp or wet game-set-match.Of course the deer weren't moving much either so you had to huff it thru the brush to push them out that just got you more soaked.So we did it just to prove we were roughing it as real Nanooks of the North do. Eating mostly jerky and smoked salmon/trout and Burbot caught in Lake Erie and Ontario - Freaking waste of vacation time is what it was

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 11, 2023, 03:22:49 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 11, 2023, 10:42:08 AM

Unless we scrap that plan entirely, buy some property on a tropical island in the Caribbean, and cut ties from all you gringos forever.

The Horror,hope you like Rum and Hippy Lettuce

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 11, 2023, 03:23:32 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 11, 2023, 03:01:31 PM

How's the property taxes, I wonder?

I've always thought as much as I don't want to, retiring in Louisiana might be a good way to go.  Property taxes are so low they are effectively negligible, and you can get more housing/land for your money than in many other places. 

I can't figure out how anybody ever retires in Texas, with the property taxes we have here. 

"Texas" is "taxes" with the vowels inverted.  Although we don't have income or grocery tax here, which is nice for the working years. 

About half the national average or so. One of my friends just moved there from here, and they are comparable to here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 11, 2023, 03:24:20 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 11, 2023, 12:36:19 PM

Cheap flights and lodging and transportation for friends and family to visit or for me to travel to see them
Plenty of golf courses and no snow, to speak of

No water either,the resevoirs are drying up,the hell is everyone portaling

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 11, 2023, 03:29:21 PM

Another thing to consider:

9 States With No Income Tax (investopedia.com) (https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0210/7-states-with-no-income-tax.aspx)


Some states tax retirement income too - pensions and social security. Gotta watch out for those too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 11, 2023, 03:34:30 PM

I've done plenty of tent-camping in my time. Still do several times per year when going with my son and his Boy Scout troop.

But our family setup is a little different.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 11, 2023, 03:41:31 PM

In fact,  my buddy Bald Greg (some of you met him here in Austin years ago) who we often go camping with, has a really good projector and a large blow-up movie screen, so we'll often show movies for the kids at night, whilst out camping.  This year we'll be winter camping from 12/26 thru 1/1, and it's likely we'll also watch some of the evening bowl games on the big blowup screen.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 11, 2023, 03:50:02 PM

I will say that while the tax burden in Florida is VERY low, insurance is VERY high.

We carry 300/300 on everything as that is required to have the umbrella coverage.

Still, $2,100/year for one car is a lot - almost double what we paid up North for TWO cars (both M-B).

$1,100/year for a 26' boat here. $750/year up North for a 40' boat.

$5,000+/year here for the house (have not got the new bill after Ian yet). $1,200/year for a comparably valued home up North.

So that comes to roughly $5K more per year than up there, but my property taxes here are 1/5 of what I paid up there. We are ahead by far, but I'm worried about that new home insurance bill.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 11, 2023, 04:05:14 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 11, 2023, 03:41:31 PM

In fact,  my buddy Bald Greg (some of you met him here in Austin years ago) who we often go camping with, has a really good projector and a large blow-up movie screen, so we'll often show movies for the kids at night, whilst out camping.  This year we'll be winter camping from 12/26 thru 1/1, and it's likely we'll also watch some of the evening bowl games on the big blowup screen. 

Damn back in the day we made our own waffles in those cast forms ya stuck in the fire.One of the scout leaders was a butcher.He froze the cheap cuts saved from the dumpster and we would take turns grinding them up with the old hand crank grinder - usually twice.But it made good Sloppy Joes,Goulash & Chili for the troup. Weather permitting we had snow shoes and cross country skis that actually looked more like boards they pulled off the privy in the state park. Mostly did orienteering in the winter woods,not as challenging when you can follow footprints back to camp though.Only entertainment as I recall was scout leaders bringing their Philco radios and guitars.They sang like elk bellowing after getting their nads caught in a barbed wire fence - America's got talent. That was enough roughing it for me.....until deer camp

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 12, 2023, 07:35:46 AM

Revenue has to come from somewhere.  Tourists are a good target if you have enough of'em.

Our sales tax here is 8.9%.  We get a 10% discount if we dine in the local area, so that offsets it.  It hits groceries also.  My property tax is about the same rate as it was in Cincy but the property is about double the value.  No state income taxes on the first $130 K retirement income.  State income tax rates are a bit higher than they are in Ohio, but they are drifting down now.  My kid told me property taxes on this place in Austin would be 2.5X higher.

The mayor in office when we moved here like to travel around the world, pretty extravagantly.  The current one doesn't seem to, or it doesn't get reported.  Maybe he's OK.  I think they all appointed their "cousins" to various positions with high salaries.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 12, 2023, 08:59:48 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 11, 2023, 11:33:11 AM

0 days in Vegas is already too many for me.

I try to avoid going there unless there's something I can't do anywhere else. I.e. when we went to Vegas for Adele, we left Saturday morning, drove in, had dinner, saw the show, and we were on the road headed back home by ~8 AM Sunday morning.

It's an outrageous city full of outrageous people and I have very little use for it.

B.R.A.D. is correct, though I have heard some of the full-time residents are just fine folk. The visitors and people who love visiting, just eye rolls. 

I had a bachelor party that was supposed to be there, with one person trying to get it out of hand. Best outcome of the pandemic was losing that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on December 12, 2023, 09:17:10 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 11, 2023, 10:50:57 AM

My notion was post retirement, though I considered getting an RV ahead of time to "try it out" and get used to it.  I know there is some work associated with maintenance of the various and sundry.  I could decide it was too much hassle and I'd just stay in Hiltons instead (as I do pretty much today).

We had a family reunion in Townsend, TN 20+ years ago.  My cousins had RVs, I rented a little cabin in the RV park for me and my kids.  It was nice (until my son put some poison ivy in the fire we had going).  We of course explored their RVs, they were all monsters, 28+ feet as I recall.

When we pass one on the road I say on occasion "That could be us!" and my wife says "That could be YOU."

We do a fair bit of travel now outside NA where an RV really isn't an option.  Of course, our hotels in France this next trip are running $250 a night and up.

The wife and I have come close a couple of time buying an RV for retirement, but ultimately decided it just wasn't the lifestyle we wanted.  We fill just fly where we want to go and stay in a nice hotel or AirBNB.  We rent a homeaway apartment in Rome and it was nice and wasn't too expensive particular compared to the hotels. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 12, 2023, 09:20:42 AM

When I started work, they had a monthly newsletter that came about, and one portion was interviews with about to retire employees (a thing which seemed far far far off for me).  They were remarkably similar, in nearly every case, the folks were going to travel, play golf and/or bridge, move to a sunnier clime, and read a lot.

I enjoy bridge and golf but don't play either now.  Travel is a thing for us.  And I do read quite a bit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 12, 2023, 10:00:05 AM

Tennesee Tornado anyone heard from DREW? Hope things are well on his and their end

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poNwrmPFrow&list=RDNS7F8WR4TpNC0&index=3

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 12, 2023, 10:14:39 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 12, 2023, 10:00:05 AM

Tennesee Tornado anyone heard from DREW? Hope things are well on his and their end

Drew lives in NC. I checked and didn't see anything posted in the A51 forum about it. Most of those guys are from/went to Tennessee. Maybe @DunkingDan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1552) knows more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 12, 2023, 10:15:02 AM

Man that looks really bad.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 12, 2023, 10:20:19 AM

Federal Government F***ING around worried about immigrants and other countries problems and forget about it's own people.That !@#$*&^ DC swamp can't be drained fast enough

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 12, 2023, 10:34:57 AM

The DC swamp will never be drained.  It's been there for ages, and will survive for ages.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: DunkingDan on December 12, 2023, 10:48:51 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 12, 2023, 10:14:39 AM

Drew lives in NC. I checked and didn't see anything posted in the A51 forum about it. Most of those guys are from/went to Tennessee. Maybe @DunkingDan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1552) knows more.

I have seen Drew post on his Facebook page in the last 48 hrs.

The tornadoes were mainly in West Tn and northwestern Central Tn. While it is not the common time of year of an outbreak like this there it is not unusual either in those areas. I have been camping during deer season there a couple times in outbreaks like this. Storms like this are one of the few things I miss about my native state.

Someone made a post about the storms, https://www.cfb51.com/area-51/tennessee-tornadoes-leave-at-least-6-dead/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: LetsGoPeay on December 12, 2023, 12:00:58 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 12, 2023, 10:00:05 AM

Tennesee Tornado anyone heard from DREW? Hope things are well on his and their end

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poNwrmPFrow&list=RDNS7F8WR4TpNC0&index=3

I was still in college at Austin Peay when the last big tornado hit Clarksville. I woke up at about 4AM to the wind blowing really hard. My cat was going nuts. I never thought of it being a tornado. I just thought it was a windstorm. I was doing my student teaching in Nashville at the time so I just got up and took my time getting ready to leave for that. It wasn't until I stopped for gas on my way out of town that I started hearing whispers of a tornado. My car radio didn't work and getting on the internet meant popping in my AOL desk and listening to the old dial-up connection sound. My car broke down on I-24 just outside of Nashville and a police officer eventually came along to help. I didn't have a cell phone because they weren't the ubiquitous and ever-present conveniences they are now. I called a friend from a gas station pay phone to come and get me and then called the school to tell them I wouldn't be in that day. The secretary answered and started crying when I told her it was me. She said they thought I'd been killed in the tornado. It turns out I was just about four blocks outside the radius of that storm that did this damage:

Clarksville F3 Tornado-1/22/99 (https://www.tornadotalk.com/clarksville-tn-f3-tornado-january-22-1999/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 12, 2023, 12:19:55 PM

Checked in with Burnt Eyes and he's ok, he doesn't live in the same area as the storms.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 12, 2023, 12:59:45 PM

1945 Romanée-Cont: The most expensive bottle of wine ever sold (foxnews.com) (https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/most-expensive-wine-ever-sold)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on December 12, 2023, 01:45:26 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 12, 2023, 09:20:42 AM

When I started work, they had a monthly newsletter that came about, and one portion was interviews with about to retire employees (a thing which seemed far far far off for me).  They were remarkably similar, in nearly every case, the folks were going to travel, play golf and/or bridge, move to a sunnier clime, and read a lot.

I enjoy bridge and golf but don't play either now.  Travel is a thing for us.  And I do read quite a bit.

Wife officially retired at the end of October she is 59, I have 129 days until I retire I am 63.  We already play golf together pretty regularly.  We have 6 cruises schedule for the next year with 2 of the cruises being in Europe where it will be combined with other European travel beyond the cruises.  I already live in a sunnier climate and read a lot. 

The wife's late husband died at 59, her brother retired at 70 and died a couple of months later, my brother-in-law could have retired years ago, he is 65, but kept putting it off and now has terminal brain cancer.  We decided we are going to retire, travel, do the things we want to do until we can't do it.  No idea if we have tomorrow so why put it off if you don't have to.  Don't think I will run out of money, but if I do it will be when I can't do all the things I want to anyway. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 12, 2023, 02:05:49 PM

Usually, before a person "runs out of money", they have done what they wanted to do, and they can see it coming 2-3 years out anyway and can cut back.  The danger, I think, is becoming in such poor health that you have to enter a full time care facility.  I have some insurance for that possibility, my wife does not.  It's expensive insurance.

For better or worse, my ancestors were long lived, generally.  Several that I know of went past 100, my uncle hit 104.  His ambition was to get past his grandmother who died at 102.  I think my Dad would have made it also but he had some ailments that caused his decline that aren't genetic.

The other major health related item is being able to walk.  We walk a lot, and being able to walk basically opens a lot of doors.  My wife has had three hip replacements, but she does pilates three times a week.  My major advice on retirement is to go somewhere where you will like to walk about a lot.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 12, 2023, 02:07:47 PM

Quote from: LetsGoPeay on December 12, 2023, 12:00:58 PM

I was still in college at Austin Peay when the last big tornado hit Clarksville. I woke up at about 4AM to the wind blowing really hard. My cat was going nuts. I never thought of it being a tornado. I just thought it was a windstorm. I was doing my student teaching in Nashville at the time so I just got up and took my time getting ready to leave for that. It wasn't until I stopped for gas on my way out of town that I started hearing whispers of a tornado. My car radio didn't work and getting on the internet meant popping in my AOL desk and listening to the old dial-up connection sound. My car broke down on I-24 just outside of Nashville and a police officer eventually came along to help. I didn't have a cell phone because they weren't the ubiquitous and ever-present conveniences they are now. I called a friend from a gas station pay phone to come and get me and then called the school to tell them I wouldn't be in that day. The secretary answered and started crying when I told her it was me. She said they thought I'd been killed in the tornado. It turns out I was just about four blocks outside the radius of that storm that did this damage:

Clarksville F3 Tornado-1/22/99 (https://www.tornadotalk.com/clarksville-tn-f3-tornado-january-22-1999/)

That's one helluva story. Glad you made it!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 12, 2023, 02:09:51 PM

Quote from: Riffraft on December 12, 2023, 01:45:26 PM

Wife officially retired at the end of October she is 59, I have 129 days until I retire I am 63.  We already play golf together pretty regularly.  We have 6 cruises schedule for the next year with 2 of the cruises being in Europe where it will be combined with other European travel beyond the cruises.  I already live in a sunnier climate and read a lot.

Where in Europe? Travel to there has me a little spooked at this time.


(https://i.imgur.com/MfI0x1o.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 12, 2023, 02:13:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 12, 2023, 02:05:49 PM

The other major health related item is being able to walk.  We walk a lot, and being able to walk basically opens a lot of doors.  My wife has had three hip replacements, but she does pilates three times a week.  My major advice on retirement is to go somewhere where you will like to walk about a lot. 

Agree with this. And what you do 20+ years before retirement might have a lot of impact on whether you can walk when you reach it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 12, 2023, 02:14:30 PM

We're headed to France in February.  I'm not overly concerned.  

Busy travel schedule ahead for first part of 2024.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 12, 2023, 02:37:15 PM

I don't think there's any issue with travel to Western Europe right now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 12, 2023, 02:42:51 PM

I was musing about our cruise to Israel last February ….

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 12, 2023, 03:21:12 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 12, 2023, 02:37:15 PM

I don't think there's any issue with travel to Western Europe right now.

Western is fine. Anything East of this line is my limit.


(https://i.imgur.com/93EoXsP.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 12, 2023, 03:33:18 PM

I wouldn't feel particularly at-risk going to Prague right now.

Budapest, on the other hand, is a powder keg.  Orban is a stooge and a sociopath.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 12, 2023, 03:39:23 PM

I considered that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 12, 2023, 05:33:40 PM

Western Europe.....hellz......I ain't leaving Texas.  Can't even trust the coonasses next door, no way am I giving the Europeans the chance to trap me in their socialist utopias.  Ron Swanson had a lot to say about Europe, and Ron Swanson was a smart man.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 12, 2023, 05:38:46 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/WG4Dwjg.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 12, 2023, 05:55:21 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 12, 2023, 05:33:40 PM

Western Europe.....hellz......I ain't leaving Texas.  Can't even trust the coonasses next door, no way am I giving the Europeans the chance to trap me in their socialist utopias.  Ron Swanson had a lot to say about Europe, and Ron Swanson was a smart man. 

He seemed to enjoy Scotland tho...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on December 12, 2023, 06:00:39 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 12, 2023, 02:09:51 PM

Where in Europe? Travel to there has me a little spooked at this time.


[img width=500 height=423.976]https://i.imgur.com/MfI0x1o.jpg[/img]

Athens, Crete. Santorini, Kusadasi, istanbul, Mykonos, Alexandria, Port Saad, Jerusalem, Tel Aviv (obvious Israel stops are in question) Paris and vicinity, London and Vicinity, Amsterdam, Brussels, LaRochelle, Bordeaux, Bilibao, LaCoruna, Oporot, Lisbon.  The Paris and london are the non-cruise part of the trip.  Haven't set the exact iternary for that part yet. going to be about 5 weeks total time. 

Isn't scheduled until next fall, wife is a bit concerned. Personallly I think much will die down by then. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 12, 2023, 06:36:28 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 12, 2023, 05:33:40 PM

Western Europe.....hellz......I ain't leaving Texas.  Can't even trust the coonasses next door, no way am I giving the Europeans the chance to trap me in their socialist utopias.  Ron Swanson had a lot to say about Europe, and Ron Swanson was a smart man. 

I have a trip planned to Texas in a couple weeks.
Gonna spend Xmas and the New Year in Colleyville

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 12, 2023, 06:40:23 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 12, 2023, 06:36:28 PM

I have a trip planned to Texas in a couple weeks.
Gonna spend Xmas and the New Year in Colleyville

You're lucky that DFW finally has some really good BBQ places.

Also, I think there's still one or two Bonedaddy's locations up there in the area.  Make Slick proud and grab some while you're there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 12, 2023, 06:49:09 PM

yup, the Bonedaddy's on the south side of Arlington on I-20 is a good one.
Slick would also approve of a place in Frisco named "Wild Pitch"

Brother visited Hurtados a couple days ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 12, 2023, 11:34:44 PM

Colonoscopy prep f'ing sucks. Very shitty.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on December 13, 2023, 12:38:13 AM

I was ready to go 10 hours before the actual procedure.    but yeah, it sucks.  another 10 years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 13, 2023, 07:42:06 AM

Not looking forward to my next one.   Maybe 5 years through the 10.
Time Flys 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 13, 2023, 08:18:59 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 12, 2023, 11:34:44 PM

Colonoscopy prep f'ing sucks. Very shitty.

If you'd eaten enough Texas "RED" prepared proper this wouldn't be a problem

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 13, 2023, 08:25:16 AM

I have skipped them, and they "say" you don't need one after 75 anyway.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 13, 2023, 09:28:01 AM

From Bonedaddy's to colonoscopy prep.  Let's go back to the former.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on December 13, 2023, 09:52:27 AM

Quote from: MarqHusker on December 13, 2023, 12:38:13 AM

I was ready to go 10 hours before the actual procedure.    but yeah, it sucks.  another 10 years.

Father had colon cancer, so I get the priviledge every 5 years

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: LetsGoPeay on December 13, 2023, 11:07:05 AM

Had my first colonoscopy a couple years ago. I went into the room and they had music playing, "Shooting Star" by Bad Company. I told them I was just glad they weren't playing "Feel Like Making Love".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 13, 2023, 11:27:00 AM

5 years I get to do it again. And I'm not talkin' Bonedaddy's.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 13, 2023, 11:31:04 AM

To boldly go where no man has gone before

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 13, 2023, 11:43:39 AM

Quote from: LetsGoPeay on December 13, 2023, 11:07:05 AM

Had my first colonoscopy a couple years ago. I went into the room and they had music playing, "Shooting Star" by Bad Company. I told them I was just glad they weren't playing "Feel Like Making Love".

Judgment free zone

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 13, 2023, 11:47:41 AM

Quote from: LetsGoPeay on December 13, 2023, 11:07:05 AM

Had my first colonoscopy a couple years ago. I went into the room and they had music playing, "Shooting Star" by Bad Company. I told them I was just glad they weren't playing "Feel Like Making Love".

Reminds of the 1st/only time I got an MRI,I'm lectured that I absolutely have to sit still.So what is the 1st freaking tune that spills out over the speakers - Twist and Shout by the Beatles. The Technologist swore it was Satellite Radio and not her personal collection - can't make that shyt up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 13, 2023, 11:50:03 AM

I had one MRI on my shoulder a while back.  It was interesting as I did a lot of "NMR" back in the day, far far more rudimentary stuff but same concept.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 13, 2023, 11:53:59 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 13, 2023, 11:50:03 AM

I had one MRI on my shoulder a while back.  It was interesting as I did a lot of "NMR" back in the day, far far more rudimentary stuff but same concept.

Got my shoulder done too - cracked labrum.I buggered out of the skull scan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 13, 2023, 11:57:21 AM

I had torn labrum from 50 years ago, plus a lot of junk in the shoulder.  Had a biceps tenodesis operation that helped a lot.  I've been throwing pretty well of late anyway.  I'm going to go now and throw off the wall.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 13, 2023, 01:14:19 PM

Uh huh...

Millennials, Gen Z go on tirades over jobs climate: 'A bone to pick with America' (foxbusiness.com) (https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/millenials-genz-tirade-jobs-climate-bone-pick-america)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 13, 2023, 02:08:28 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 13, 2023, 01:14:19 PM

Uh huh...

Millennials, Gen Z go on tirades over jobs climate: 'A bone to pick with America' (foxbusiness.com) (https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/millenials-genz-tirade-jobs-climate-bone-pick-america)

I think young folks today sometimes make two big mistakes when deciding on a career choice

1 Not researching what career choices actually pay and the public need for the career under consideration
Society will always need doctors lawyers engineers and accountants but not so much some degrees in economics or English literature

2 The desire to start out at the top of their chosen career and not wanting to gain experience and work their way up the ladder

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 13, 2023, 02:13:44 PM

Both of those are very true.

We get kids who interview and imply that they want to take my job.

I'm thinking "You really want THAT?" while also thinking WTF have you ever done?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 13, 2023, 02:18:52 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 13, 2023, 02:08:28 PM

I think young folks today sometimes make two big mistakes when deciding on a career choice

1 Not researching what career choices actually pay and the public need for the career under consideration
Society will always need doctors lawyers engineers and accountants but not so much some degrees in economics or English literature

It's why electrical engineering was my major, and philosophy was my minor. One of the two doesn't pay. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 13, 2023, 02:25:45 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 13, 2023, 08:25:16 AM

I have skipped them, and they "say" you don't need one after 75 anyway. 

good to know
I'll wait until I'm 66 for the next one and then done!
2 is enough

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 13, 2023, 02:54:23 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 13, 2023, 02:25:45 PM

good to know
I'll wait until I'm 66 for the next one and then done!
2 is enough

I too take my medical advice from guys on message boards.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 13, 2023, 03:14:25 PM

Not just any old message board dammit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 13, 2023, 03:22:33 PM

I interviewed a LOT of candidates back in the day, BS level and higher.  It was depressing how many had good grades and didn't appear to know anything about anything.  I'd hold up a piece of glassware and ask them if they knew what it was.  Or ask how a GC works, or if they had ever used a rotovap.

I had one recommendation by a professor at Ohio State for a graduate student that said, simply "X has enjoyed good health at Ohio State.".  End.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 13, 2023, 03:32:49 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 13, 2023, 02:18:52 PM

It's why electrical engineering was my major, and philosophy was my minor. One of the two doesn't pay.

So putting shadows on a cave is your money maker?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 13, 2023, 03:38:15 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 13, 2023, 02:08:28 PM

I think young folks today sometimes make two big mistakes when deciding on a career choice

1 Not researching what career choices actually pay and the public need for the career under consideration
Society will always need doctors lawyers engineers and accountants but not so much some degrees in economics or English literature

2 The desire to start out at the top of their chosen career and not wanting to gain experience and work their way up the ladder

1.) Quick fix is you don't pay a dime for college at the time.  Not loans, just a deferred payment, based on your salary.  Colleges would quit convincing kids to spend 7 years in college triple minoring in three different regional studies real quick.

2.) I think there is some truth to this.  However, there are a couple of barriers.  First, a lot of larger firms hire kids straight out of college just as cheap labor, with no desire to promote them.  A lot of them, from engineering firms, to accounting firms, to law firms, want those new hires to burn the candle, and then leave.  Then upper management is all laterals that bring their own book with them.  The other end is the back end not retiring.  I can't tell you how many partners at our firm are "retired".  They still manage their large clients, but don't actually ever bill any hours, but are also unwilling to hand the client off to anyone.  The junior partner on our largest client is 52.  The managing partner is in his 80s

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 13, 2023, 03:53:07 PM

Unrealistic expectations here, clearly.  But this probably is a smallish minority of whiney people out there.  But they are "influencers" I reckon.

I was nearly 26 when I started my first real job.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 13, 2023, 03:54:25 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 13, 2023, 02:54:23 PM

I too take my medical advice from guys on message boards. 

much improved from where I previously got my medical advice

don't ask - I didn't even play a doc on TV

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 13, 2023, 03:57:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 13, 2023, 03:53:07 PM

I was nearly 26 when I started my first real job.

I got a summer job while in college.
Turned it into a real job
maybe 22

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 13, 2023, 04:22:11 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 13, 2023, 03:14:25 PM

Not just any old message board dammit.

Just a message board filled with old people.

If anything, the lack of new blood over the past 20 years has certainly improved the medical experiences discussions

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 13, 2023, 04:36:08 PM

Quote from: ELA on December 13, 2023, 03:38:15 PM

2.) I think there is some truth to this.  However, there are a couple of barriers.  First, a lot of larger firms hire kids straight out of college just as cheap labor, with no desire to promote them.  A lot of them, from engineering firms, to accounting firms, to law firms, want those new hires to burn the candle, and then leave.  Then upper management is all laterals that bring their own book with them.  The other end is the back end not retiring.  I can't tell you how many partners at our firm are "retired".  They still manage their large clients, but don't actually ever bill any hours, but are also unwilling to hand the client off to anyone.  The junior partner on our largest client is 52.  The managing partner is in his 80s

Our firm is different.

We encourage growth and seasoning with the goal of the older guys (me) handing off clients (I don't have any clients now) to those who stayed and grew. Then the older guys (me) get slowly bought out (wish it was faster) while we (me) spend our time supporting the younger guys in the form of actually doing land surveying and civil engineering work.

Very happy to still be able to perform that work - and I still tell the young guys that I've forgotten more than they know. They agree, which is good, because they ask questions and take advice.

Those who stay will be champions, so to speak.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 13, 2023, 04:39:26 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 13, 2023, 03:57:32 PM

I got a summer job while in college.
Turned it into a real job
maybe 22

I got my first real job working (not so much really) at IDOT (gubmint) while I was still in high school. 

Had a hard time finding a private firm to take me on, as IDOT was (is?) noteworthy for employing people with low work ethics.

My boss used to give me work to do on Monday morning and at the end of the day I went to him to tell him I was done. He said that was supposed to last all week.

I got really good at shooting flies with rubber bands.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 13, 2023, 04:45:22 PM

Yeah, my first job was being a caddie at the age of 13 b/c there was no other legal work available. Not sure if that's considered a "real" job or not. But from the time I was 14 and could get a work permit from my guidance counselor (needed until 16 in IL at the time) I've been filing income tax returns every year. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 13, 2023, 04:50:27 PM

I started working at age 8 at our family restaurant, washing dishes and bussing tables.  Didn't file any income tax returns for that though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 13, 2023, 05:42:19 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 13, 2023, 04:36:08 PM

Our firm is different.

We encourage growth and seasoning with the goal of the older guys (me) handing off clients (I don't have any clients now) to those who stayed and grew. Then the older guys (me) get slowly bought out (wish it was faster) while we (me) spend our time supporting the younger guys in the form of actually doing land surveying and civil engineering work.

Very happy to still be able to perform that work - and I still tell the young guys that I've forgotten more than they know. They agree, which is good, because they ask questions and take advice.

Those who stay will be champions, so to speak.

That's awesome.  And without knowing much, I think you own a small to midsize firm?  And I think that is somewhat true.  The funny thing is the large firms that come in, scoop the top 2% out, and then just replace them with lateral hires from small and mid size firms.  I think that's the market issue that I'm shocked hasn't fixed itself yet.  I can't speak to other arenas, but in law, I think the major issue is that 1L and 2L summer hires are a huge prestige issue.  Small and midsize firms don't have the capacity to take on interns often.  Even unpaid, you are talking about lost costs from the attorneys that train them, and the certainly can't afford to pay them.  The large firms can, and they can hand them off to some 3rd year associate to find them work.  It's hard to tell a 22 year old not to take a (relatively) well paying summer job with a large firm.  Then, when they get an offer, early in their 3L year, when no small or midsize firms are handing out offers to students who are 10 months away from taking the bar, you are asking them to throw away a well paying guaranteed offer, for the chance to work at a firm where they could grow their practice.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 13, 2023, 05:45:21 PM

I got day work catering UM's various college graduation parties starting at 15.  I made maybe $500 working 2 weeks around campus.  But my dad sure as shit sat me down and taught me how to file a tax return.

Fast forward 10 years, and my wife's family outsourced theirs to some random "accountant" who only worked through her one uncle.  I took them over, and reviewing her previous year returns I told her, she was lucky she didn't make enough money for them to care, but her dad needed to take his taxes elsewhere, and walked him through all of the issues I found.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 13, 2023, 09:06:00 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 13, 2023, 02:13:44 PM

Both of those are very true.

We get kids who interview and imply that they want to take my job.

I'm thinking "You really want THAT?" while also thinking WTF have you ever done?

Did you ever consider WHY they act that way???

Back in the day, you could support a 4-person family on one sub-supervisory income.  Now you can't support shit on one income.
There's a lot of goofy shit younger workers say, think, and do, but on this, they're just trying to financially stay afloat.  All the decades of efficiency large companies have implemented has trimmed A LOT of monies going to the worker bees.  Corporations used to be fat, bloated entities gettng by on high volume.  Now, they're smart and shrewd, and the worker bees get bent.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 13, 2023, 09:40:30 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 13, 2023, 09:06:00 PM

Did you ever consider WHY they act that way???

Back in the day, you could support a 4-person family on one sub-supervisory income.  Now you can't support shit on one income.
There's a lot of goofy shit younger workers say, think, and do, but on this, they're just trying to financially stay afloat.  All the decades of efficiency large companies have implemented has trimmed A LOT of monies going to the worker bees.  Corporations used to be fat, bloated entities gettng by on high volume.  Now, they're smart and shrewd, and the worker bees get bent.

sometimes the worker bee wants to go directly to Queen and while ambition is good some of these worker bees honestly dont understand what getting experience is and the need for it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 13, 2023, 10:11:02 PM

It's not 1967.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 13, 2023, 10:26:21 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 13, 2023, 10:11:02 PM

It's not 1967. 

meaning?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 13, 2023, 10:30:56 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 13, 2023, 01:14:19 PM

Uh huh...

Millennials, Gen Z go on tirades over jobs climate: 'A bone to pick with America' (foxbusiness.com) (https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/millenials-genz-tirade-jobs-climate-bone-pick-america)

I mean this nicely to whoever compiled this piece of ... fun content for older folks. 

People complain all the time every day about all sorts of nonsense. You can round up a mess of people complaining about damn near everything. Some people are saying they deserve more of a thing? Oh wow. That's people. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 13, 2023, 10:36:26 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 13, 2023, 02:08:28 PM

I think young folks today sometimes make two big mistakes when deciding on a career choice

1 Not researching what career choices actually pay and the public need for the career under consideration
Society will always need doctors lawyers engineers and accountants but not so much some degrees in economics or English literature

So that's actually interesting. 

While the world will always need lawyers, we actually had a surplus for a while. Law schools, needing funding, minted too many. It was a whole thing.

The other two are sort of on the other side of things. They're professions with higher levels of gatekeeping because we want really, really good accountants and engineers. So many, many people, no matter how much research they do, ain't making that cut. (Accounting is also interesting because that job just knocks people around, so that might be a sign of surplus, since you can't just fly off to an easier job).

In the end, I am doubtful people are getting an english lit degree because they were able to be engineers or accountants but simply didn't realize. Econ is an odd one because it's a good precursor to a lot of white collar work, as it involves a modest amount of math and such. Better than history, for sure. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 13, 2023, 10:39:59 PM

Young folks have been makings the two mistakes I mention for a long time no matter what generation the are a member of

I guess saying it another way some of the roadblocks in their way are a result of poor planning and bad career strategy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 13, 2023, 10:51:13 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on December 13, 2023, 10:36:26 PM

So that's actually interesting.

While the world will always need lawyers, we actually had a surplus for a while. Law schools, needing funding, minted too many. It was a whole thing.

The other two are sort of on the other side of things. They're professions with higher levels of gatekeeping because we want really, really good accountants and engineers. So many, many people, no matter how much research they do, ain't making that cut. (Accounting is also interesting because that job just knocks people around, so that might be a sign of surplus, since you can't just fly off to an easier job).

In the end, I am doubtful people are getting an english lit degree because they were able to be engineers or accountants but simply didn't realize. Econ is an odd one because it's a good precursor to a lot of white collar work, as it involves a modest amount of math and such. Better than history, for sure.

Im simply trying to point out that young people often do not plan properly to enter a career that will give them what they want in life

If a person wants job security they should pick a profession which is needed by society that meets their interests and future earning potential

some degrees are a nonstarter and yet folks still go after them and this could be avoided with proper planning

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 13, 2023, 11:22:03 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 13, 2023, 10:26:21 PM

meaning?

Meaning wages have been stagnant since 1970.  
They crept up for the 20 years before that, incrementally, and were enough to provide for a family.  
Since then, people make the same amount of money, while the cost of everything has increased.  
.
So we wind up with the generation that had it financially easy bitching about the young generation that has it financially impossible (when talking one-income families).  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 14, 2023, 12:14:08 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 13, 2023, 11:22:03 PM

Meaning wages have been stagnant since 1970. 
They crept up for the 20 years before that, incrementally, and were enough to provide for a family. 
Since then, people make the same amount of money, while the cost of everything has increased. 
.
So we wind up with the generation that had it financially easy bitching about the young generation that has it financially impossible (when talking one-income families). 

The only problem with your theory is that its just wrong

Both my children were born in the mid 80s and had a very well thought out plan for their careers

My son is a CPA and makes more then I ever did

My daughter is an attorney for a large law firm in Houston and again does very well salary wise

I say all this not to brag but to support that their successful careers was  not an accident of luck but the reward from a very well thought out plan

Do all children have the same opportunity sadly no but Im speaking about the ones that do and just blow it through poor planning

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 14, 2023, 03:01:55 AM

Please change your name to Captain Small Sample Size or Mr Anecdotal Evidence.

Sheeesh.  We can't even have a conversation.
My post involves tens of millions of people (conservatively) and yours addresses 2.  
I mean seriously.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 14, 2023, 07:34:16 AM

Having a plan beyond which house party to go to on Saturday is important.

Having a plan before entering the post-secondary world is even more critical.

The process:

What program am I best qualified for? What fields interest me most? Can I get into the college of engineering? 

No? But that's my interest! 

Maybe I should consider an associate degree in manufacturing or construction technology. 

Man, that would cost me 1/10 of going to the University of ____________ - double bonus!

I can make $60-70K/year out of the gate doing this?

Now I have a plan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 14, 2023, 07:39:14 AM

Quote from: ELA on December 13, 2023, 05:42:19 PM

That's awesome.  And without knowing much, I think you own a small to midsize firm?  And I think that is somewhat true.  The funny thing is the large firms that come in, scoop the top 2% out, and then just replace them with lateral hires from small and mid size firms.  I think that's the market issue that I'm shocked hasn't fixed itself yet.  I can't speak to other arenas, but in law, I think the major issue is that 1L and 2L summer hires are a huge prestige issue.  Small and midsize firms don't have the capacity to take on interns often.  Even unpaid, you are talking about lost costs from the attorneys that train them, and the certainly can't afford to pay them.  The large firms can, and they can hand them off to some 3rd year associate to find them work.  It's hard to tell a 22 year old not to take a (relatively) well paying summer job with a large firm.  Then, when they get an offer, early in their 3L year, when no small or midsize firms are handing out offers to students who are 10 months away from taking the bar, you are asking them to throw away a well paying guaranteed offer, for the chance to work at a firm where they could grow their practice.

We have around 30 people today. We've been as many as 35, and as little as 3 (2008 took us from about 20 down to 3). And yes, we've lost some to the big boys - after we trained them. We do take interns even though it's painful.

My first job was working at an Italian Beef joint when I was 14 (work permit from HS). Pay was not much but some of the food was free.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 14, 2023, 07:40:47 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 13, 2023, 11:22:03 PM

Meaning wages have been stagnant since 1970. 
They crept up for the 20 years before that, incrementally, and were enough to provide for a family. 
Since then, people make the same amount of money, while the cost of everything has increased. 
.

I think you should note that wages have cre[t up but so have prices, rather than wages are stagnate and prices have gone up.

I've pointed to the chart showing real median income growth as perhaps the most important metric in judging the economy.  Clearly we've have significant periods when it has done pretty well, and then others when it hasn't (called recessions).


(https://i.imgur.com/dKQg2Wx.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 14, 2023, 08:02:56 AM

Speaking of football schedules .... the Dawgs play at Texas and at Alabama, in addition to Clemson (ATL) and at Ole Miss and Tennessee in Athens.

They don't play USCe or Vandy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 14, 2023, 10:55:35 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 14, 2023, 03:01:55 AM

Please change your name to Captain Small Sample Size or Mr Anecdotal Evidence.

Sheeesh.  We can't even have a conversation.
My post involves tens of millions of people (conservatively) and yours addresses 2. 
I mean seriously.

I know you cant believe my example also represents anyone in your millions that have the opportunity to choose their career and control their destiny but it does

you are a teacher and thats the result of a plan

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 14, 2023, 11:45:40 AM

There are a lot of really good paying jobs right now that are not being filled. This is disturbing to me, because the requirements to fulfill many of these jobs, in most cases, require a 2-year degree, or less.

For example, healthcare. There are shortages in just about all of the below programs.

(https://i.imgur.com/RfvSt2G.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 14, 2023, 11:52:21 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 14, 2023, 11:45:40 AM

There are a lot of really good paying jobs right now that are not being filled. This is disturbing to me, because the requirements to fulfill many of these jobs, in most cases, require a 2-year degree, or less.

For example, healthcare. There are shortages in just about all of the below programs.

(https://i.imgur.com/RfvSt2G.png)

Yep. My wife's office lost their medical assistant and she needed to hire a new one about 6 months ago. She previously would have gotten 40-50 resumes the first day a posting went up. She might have had 2 dozen over the course of 10 days this time, and only two were even remotely appropriate. 

It's not the MOST high paying job in healthcare, but it only takes a HS diploma and less than a year of additional schooling to get the MA certificate. And that can get you a job with predictable hours and be a stepping stone if you want to try to advance requiring additional study in your off time (as several of my wife's previous employees have done). 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 14, 2023, 11:57:02 AM

It seems kids are not getting good counseling, often as not.  I've noted in the past that about 65% of HS grads in the US go to college.  In Europe, it's closer to 35%.  College here is kind of an expectancy, for anyone who is even a half decent HS student, not even average for graduates.   When I started, it seemed like half the freshman class was "premed", a thing which didn't last very long.  

I admit to expecting my own to attend college.  They weren't elite students but they were certainly in the top level of class work in HS.  And they did well at THE Ohio State.

Expectations.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 14, 2023, 11:59:08 AM

the diploma printing lobby is strong

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 14, 2023, 12:02:25 PM

And that can be a problem. A lot of them go to college to get a degree that prepares them for little more than being a barista. So they're not qualified for the kinds of higher-paying jobs they think should be open to them as a college graduate. But they didn't learn a skill (skilled trades, medical certification, etc), so they have to go BACK to school to become qualified for one of these other jobs that pays more than being a barista. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 14, 2023, 12:19:19 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 14, 2023, 12:02:25 PM

And that can be a problem. A lot of them go to college to get a degree that prepares them for little more than being a barista. So they're not qualified for the kinds of higher-paying jobs they think should be open to them as a college graduate. But they didn't learn a skill (skilled trades, medical certification, etc), so they have to go BACK to school to become qualified for one of these other jobs that pays more than being a barista.

My point exactly

When they get out there and find there are very few jobs open to them they want to blame America and its class system as the reason when they really did it to themselves

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 14, 2023, 12:21:56 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 14, 2023, 12:02:25 PM

And that can be a problem. A lot of them go to college to get a degree that prepares them for little more than being a barista. So they're not qualified for the kinds of higher-paying jobs they think should be open to them as a college graduate. But they didn't learn a skill (skilled trades, medical certification, etc), so they have to go BACK to school to become qualified for one of these other jobs that pays more than being a barista.

Well, like, yeah...

Another thing... How come I can't get a job?


(https://i.imgur.com/VivqIUL.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 14, 2023, 12:25:05 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 14, 2023, 12:21:56 PM

Well, like, yeah...

Another thing... How come I can't get a job?


(https://i.imgur.com/VivqIUL.png)

You can get a great job looking like that. 

Well, as long as you also have an engineering degree. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 14, 2023, 12:30:10 PM

I hired a guy once who showed up his first day with purple hair.  He turned out to be one of my best hires.  The purple didn't last that long.

We had another guy my buddy hired as a temp.  We shared a larger lab, and I saw this fellow working quite effectively.  The weird thing was he had a degree in archeology.  The good thing is he learned stuff quickly and was a hard worker.  So I hired him too.

He and the purple hair dude would often stay out late and then show up a bit late to work, so I had on occasion to suggest they make it in by 9 AM.  Then I got a boss, an Italian lady, who would show up around 10 AM, maybe, and then often leave around 2 or so.  If there was any hint of a snow flake she'd go home earlier.  Fortunately, she was worse than worthless, so having her not be around was a plus.  She made my top 3 worst bosses.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 14, 2023, 12:46:34 PM

Yep. I realize that perhaps my experience (tech companies in CA) might be different than Badge. But literally if you have the skills that are relevant in this industry, nobody really cares what color your hair is. 

It might limit *some* think, for example you might not exactly be first in line for customer-facing roles. But if your job is writing firmware, all anyone cares is whether your code works. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 14, 2023, 12:57:50 PM

I didn't care, but he got razzed about is some, which didn't bother him.  In such a straight laced company it was a bit odd.  When I started, all "staff" wore ties, and the technicians didn't.  All staff would carry a briefcase home each day.  

After a year or so, I quit with the briefcase thing, I almost never worked at home.  The tie thing lasted about five years.

Ah, memories of working.  I think about work maybe once a week, briefly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 14, 2023, 01:34:10 PM

(https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-4c04193aadacf7a2752133a9f067b8a0-lq)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 14, 2023, 03:29:54 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 14, 2023, 12:25:05 PM

You can get a great job looking like that.

Well, as long as you also have an engineering degree.

Our firm is not in Cali, and our clients tend to be stodgy old conservatives, in general.

I could not put that girl in front of our clients. No way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 14, 2023, 05:28:53 PM

IMO, there's another part of the problem OAM referenced in addition to the skills-track y'all are talking about.  Financial literacy.  It's true that it's harder right now to achieve the baseline middle class standard of living we think of as "normal," but the problem has also been exacerbated by a total lack of knowledge of what a plan looks like, how to implement it, how to budget for it, and then the discipline to stick with it (that last part maybe doesn't fall under financial literacy). 

Recently my youngest stepson has complained a lot about what the world, Boomers, Xers, politicians, etc. have done to him and how hard it is now to make ends meet.  I got tired of it and just the other day sat down with he and his gf and crunched the numbers on what they make right now, what they stand to make with potential entry level jobs in their fields once they get them, and what realistic bills and expenses look like in our little corner of the country.  Lined it all out for them, including savings, all the way through to hitting retirement goals, both individually and a scenario where they're married and have two incomes.  It does seem harder than when I was starting out, but still very doable.  I told him the worst part at the moment is he won't have the "luxury" he's used to here while we pay all his bills, for a while, anyway. 

He still grumbles about it, but now with some awareness that he doesn't really have very good points.  I'd like to tell him we'd be doing better than we're doing right now if he'd quit taking his sweet time through college, seemingly unaware I don't feel like paying tuition forever, or of the boon he's being handed by getting out without any debt/student loans.  But I don't.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: jgvol on December 14, 2023, 05:38:27 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 14, 2023, 05:28:53 PM

IMO, there's another part of the problem OAM referenced in addition to the skills-track y'all are talking about.  Financial literacy.  It's true that it's harder right now to achieve the baseline middle class standard of living we think of as "normal," but the problem has also been exacerbated by a total lack of knowledge of what a plan looks like, how to implement it, how to budget for it, and then the discipline to stick with it (that last part maybe doesn't fall under financial literacy). 

Recently my youngest stepson has complained a lot about what the world, Boomers, Xers, politicians, etc. have done to him and how hard it is now to make ends meet.  I got tired of it and just the other day sat down with he and his gf and crunched the numbers on what they make right now, what they stand to make with potential entry level jobs in their fields once they get them, and what realistic bills and expenses look like in our little corner of the country.  Lined it all out for them, including savings, all the way through to hitting retirement goals, both individually and a scenario where they're married and have two incomes.  It does seem harder than when I was starting out, but still very doable.  I told him the worst part at the moment is he won't have the "luxury" he's used to here while we pay all his bills, for a while, anyway. 

He still grumbles about it, but now with some awareness that he doesn't really have very good points.  I'd like to tell him we'd be doing better than we're doing right now if he'd quit taking his sweet time through college, seemingly unaware I don't feel like paying tuition forever, or of the boon he's being handed by getting out without any debt/student loans.  But I don't. 

You should.  If for no other reason than illustrating what the Boomers/X'ers ARE doing for him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 15, 2023, 07:16:42 AM

I'd certainly tell him.

These kiddies that bitch about us drink too much Starbucks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 15, 2023, 07:36:24 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 14, 2023, 05:28:53 PM

 I'd like to tell him we'd be doing better than we're doing right now if he'd quit taking his sweet time through college, seemingly unaware I don't feel like paying tuition forever, or of the boon he's being handed by getting out without any debt/student loans.  But I don't. 

"You must do the thing you think you cannot do." Eleanor Roosevelt

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 15, 2023, 07:51:26 AM

Boo hoo.

(https://i.imgur.com/wm7xf8t.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 15, 2023, 08:06:19 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on December 15, 2023, 07:36:24 AM

"You must do the thing you think you cannot do." Eleanor Roosevelt

Hey, if it were my kid I'd have plenty to tell him.  When it's the wife's kid, I choose my battles very carefully.  And fortunately, he's an overall good kid who doesn't require many battles.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2023, 08:07:35 AM

I'm pretty sure I cannot become a major league baseball pitcher.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 15, 2023, 08:19:34 AM

Heck, I'm pretty sure I can't become a minor league one.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 15, 2023, 08:27:45 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 15, 2023, 08:07:35 AM

I'm pretty sure I cannot become a major league baseball pitcher. 

Somewhere Phil Niekro be like "The hell you say"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 15, 2023, 08:28:43 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 15, 2023, 08:07:35 AM

I'm pretty sure I cannot become a major league baseball pitcher. 

Probably not, but if you make a plan and put your mind to it, you'd have a good chance to become a high-level chemist.

I have a lot of confidence in you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 15, 2023, 08:28:53 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 15, 2023, 08:07:35 AM

I'm pretty sure I cannot become a major league baseball pitcher. 

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 15, 2023, 08:19:34 AM

Heck, I'm pretty sure I can't become a minor league one. 

I'm pretty sure I'll be pouring a Pitcher later on

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 15, 2023, 03:21:19 PM

The 50 greatest innovations of 2023

Here at Popular Science we celebrate innovation. Whether it’s a new medical treatment, infrastructure project, consumer product, or big idea, they almost always spring up as the solution to a problem. Some honorees address age-old annoyances while others speak to larger and even existential issues that profoundly affect people around the globe. This year, we’ve selected honorees that exemplify this desire to improve people’s lives, just as we have every year since 1988.

https://www.popsci.com/technology/best-of-whats-new-2023/ (https://www.popsci.com/technology/best-of-whats-new-2023/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 15, 2023, 04:05:45 PM

That server water heater is a cool concept... I can tell you from being in that world that cooling a data center is a MASSIVE portion of the power draw of a data center--literally everything inside the data center is generating heat, and you need a lot of airflow to cool it. There's a lot of research being done on liquid immersion as a cooling method but there are a lot of issues with that. 

I can't imagine the logistical problems of distributing your compute across a bunch of residential homes... But to actually use the waste heat of compute for something that today has to be done with NG or electricity is solving two problems.

And the aquatic carbon capture could be interesting... Of course PopSci doesn't have much info on the economics of it other than it being more economical than taking it out of the air. But that's a discussion for the environment thread...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 15, 2023, 04:23:56 PM

stuff is way over my head

but, I thought some of you Nerds might enjoy it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 16, 2023, 10:47:55 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 13, 2023, 11:22:03 PM

Meaning wages have been stagnant since 1970. 
They crept up for the 20 years before that, incrementally, and were enough to provide for a family. 
Since then, people make the same amount of money, while the cost of everything has increased. 
.
So we wind up with the generation that had it financially easy bitching about the young generation that has it financially impossible (when talking one-income families). 

Surprise: Wage growth has actually outpaced the crushing inflation over the past 2.5 years. ‘The economy appears to be doing better than a lot of people might realize’

https://fortune.com/2023/12/12/wage-growth-exceeded-inflation-jec-democrats/ (https://fortune.com/2023/12/12/wage-growth-exceeded-inflation-jec-democrats/)

The average American might not have much faith in the current U.S. economy, what with the cost-of-living increase over the past few years and persistent recession warning bells. But Americans have many reasons to feel confident—including that wage and salary growth are now outpacing inflation, according to myriad government data.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 16, 2023, 11:19:23 AM

Far be it from me to argue with the government--I'm sure they have no reason to obfuscate or ineptitude to overcome--but that has not been our experience.  The price of multiple things, food being chief amongst them, have gotten a little out of control the past couple years and our wages haven't increased one penny.  And it's painfully obvious when I do the budget each month.  Wherever this great wage growth is happening, I gotta get in on that.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 16, 2023, 11:27:49 AM

Go work for the government. Their wages always increase.

I haven't had one in about 6 years. So, decrease.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 16, 2023, 12:16:44 PM

My dream job, to be a weatherman here:

Waikoloa Beach Resort, HI 10-Day Weather Forecast - The Weather Channel | Weather.com (https://weather.com/weather/tenday/l/02e9f5bd9196d3bb34cc52a558e78f876619918b237519208e7d8fe1ccb8f74d)

That's where we're headed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 16, 2023, 01:22:13 PM

Millions of Americans to Lose Their Jobs in 2024 (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/millions-of-americans-to-lose-their-jobs-in-2024/ar-AA1lzJuQ?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=c957d40d214f4d2ca957b4c91b131b3e&ei=17)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 16, 2023, 02:08:23 PM

Congressional Budget Office (CBO) report on Friday forecasts a rise in U.S. unemployment from the current 3.9 percent to 4.4 percent by the end of 2024, signaling potential job losses for millions amidst a contracting gross domestic product (GDP).


Their track record on predictions is not much better than mine.  And a 4.4% UE rate is still pretty low.  A LOT of folks (including me) have been expecting a recession for some time now, even preCOVID, year after year after year.  An old saw is "An invested yield curve has predicted 9 out of the last 5 recessions."

Certainly, Fed actions have made a slow down more likely, that has been their intent.  I'm just not sure at all how anybody can predict a year in the future reliably without a lot of guesswork.

Costco stock rose $28 a share on Friday.  I dunno what that means if anything.  I'm a bit wealthier.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2023, 08:10:38 AM

I’ve never seen this airport so busy. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 17, 2023, 08:56:52 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 16, 2023, 01:22:13 PM

Millions of Americans to Lose Their Jobs in 2024 (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/millions-of-americans-to-lose-their-jobs-in-2024/ar-AA1lzJuQ?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=c957d40d214f4d2ca957b4c91b131b3e&ei=17)

Ahh, the power of basic economics at work. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2023, 09:29:46 AM

An hour to clear security with Clear. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2023, 09:31:01 AM

Folks boarding with huge carryon. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2023, 09:31:53 AM

The Iowa Western football team crushed East Mississippi 61-14 on Wednesday in the National Junior College Athletic Association Division I championship game.

The Reivers finished the season with a 12-1 record after the blowout victory in Little Rock, Arkansas. This was the third national championship for Iowa Western (2012, 2022) and coach Scott Strohmeier.

Iowa Western led 27-7 at halftime and poured it on in the second half with five more touchdowns. The Reivers' 61 points was the most scored in a national championship game since 2015, and second-most all-time.


Iowa Western entered the playoffs as the No. 2 overall seed, with its only loss on the season coming to the No. 1 seed Hutchinson. The Reivers outscored their semifinal and championship game opponents by a combined score of 108-21.
______________________________________________

Only 65 miles to Memorial Stadium in Lincoln

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2023, 09:32:16 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 17, 2023, 09:29:46 AM

An hour to clear security with Clear.

have a great time!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 17, 2023, 10:15:03 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 17, 2023, 09:31:53 AM

The Iowa Western football team crushed East Mississippi 61-14 on Wednesday in the National Junior College Athletic Association Division I championship game.

The Reivers finished the season with a 12-1 record after the blowout victory in Little Rock, Arkansas. This was the third national championship for Iowa Western (2012, 2022) and coach Scott Strohmeier.

Iowa Western led 27-7 at halftime and poured it on in the second half with five more touchdowns. The Reivers' 61 points was the most scored in a national championship game since 2015, and second-most all-time.


Iowa Western entered the playoffs as the No. 2 overall seed, with its only loss on the season coming to the No. 1 seed Hutchinson. The Reivers outscored their semifinal and championship game opponents by a combined score of 108-21.
______________________________________________

Only 65 miles to Memorial Stadium in Lincoln

I watched a chunk of that game, granted it was already pretty out of hand. Had to do a double take because Iowa western‘s quarterback shares the name of a local quarterback in a town I lived in like a decade ago.

Hell of a program right there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2023, 10:34:17 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 17, 2023, 09:29:46 AM

An hour to clear security with Clear.

An hour? Jeez. We haven't waited more than 20 minutes since we got Global Entry.

Have a safe flight and nice trip.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2023, 11:25:00 AM

Long long lines. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2023, 11:54:41 AM

traveling is all the rage

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2023, 12:29:52 PM

I’ve seen it packed before of course but not like this. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2023, 12:33:56 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on December 17, 2023, 08:56:52 AM

Ahh, the power of basic economics at work.

It's not good news.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2023, 12:56:01 PM

it was MSN - probably fake news

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 17, 2023, 01:26:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on December 16, 2023, 02:08:23 PM

Costco stock rose $28 a share on Friday.  I dunno what that means if anything.  I'm a bit wealthier.

SELL

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2023, 01:36:41 PM

Saw this on one of the board game groups I'm a part of, thought some of you might be interested...
(https://i.imgur.com/4sNi2vV.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2023, 02:51:57 PM

Not interested. 

:sorry:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2023, 05:28:59 PM

I'm really not sorry

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 17, 2023, 05:48:04 PM

https://youtu.be/XA8PXbTb7OQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 17, 2023, 08:57:58 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 17, 2023, 12:33:56 PM

It's not good news.

True, but it's also gravity. That level of unemployment never sustains. It was gonna come down at some point. Perhaps this is the time. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 18, 2023, 08:20:26 AM

There are so damn many jobs available. Unemployment should not be a thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 18, 2023, 10:48:00 AM

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/14/health/onion-kurlansky-wellness/index.html

Love onions. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 18, 2023, 11:01:19 AM

Maui grows really good onions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 18, 2023, 11:09:39 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 18, 2023, 11:01:19 AM

Maui grows really good onions.

And weed!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 18, 2023, 11:15:56 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 18, 2023, 11:01:19 AM

Maui grows really good onions.

And cattle.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on December 18, 2023, 11:19:11 AM

My mother has an irrational phobia about onions, and refused to eat or serve anything that had onions in any capacity. 

While I don't put them on everything, there are certainly times and places for their use. It took me a long time to come around on that.

I prefer raw onions on hot dogs.

As for Hawaii, for a very long time their primary exports were beef and fresh water.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 18, 2023, 11:29:59 AM

I bet @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) could afford this one.

Gingerbread House In California Listed On Zillow For $1.9 Million | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/gingerbread-house-in-california-listed-on-zillow-for-19-million?utm_source=The Babylon Bee)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 18, 2023, 12:01:33 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 18, 2023, 11:29:59 AM

I bet @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) could afford this one.

Gingerbread House In California Listed On Zillow For $1.9 Million | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/gingerbread-house-in-california-listed-on-zillow-for-19-million?utm_source=The Babylon Bee)

'(https://i.imgur.com/ueYht5N.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 18, 2023, 12:30:19 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 18, 2023, 11:29:59 AM

I bet @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) could afford this one.

Gingerbread House In California Listed On Zillow For $1.9 Million | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/gingerbread-house-in-california-listed-on-zillow-for-19-million?utm_source=The Babylon Bee)

Yeah, just can't handle the commute from LA... But that's a smokin' deal! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 18, 2023, 01:45:33 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/zOewTc6.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 18, 2023, 01:51:22 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/fyh562x.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 18, 2023, 02:37:44 PM

looks like a golf course!

FORE!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 18, 2023, 03:03:28 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/TqCcIps.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 18, 2023, 03:29:19 PM

kinda doubtful of Chi-town

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 18, 2023, 03:33:45 PM

Yo tambien

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 18, 2023, 03:37:01 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 18, 2023, 03:29:19 PM

kinda doubtful of Chi-town

There are some good places. This one is the best.

Home - Smoque (smoquebbq.com) (https://smoquebbq.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 18, 2023, 03:54:49 PM

I think there can be good BBQ anywhere. Heck, utee begrudgingly admitted he's been to a legit place in California. Even though I'm sure to him, that sounds like picante sauce made in New York City...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 18, 2023, 04:32:13 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 18, 2023, 03:37:01 PM

There are some good places. This one is the best.

Home - Smoque (smoquebbq.com) (https://smoquebbq.com/)

Daniel Vaughn says it's legit, so it's legit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 18, 2023, 04:33:04 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 18, 2023, 03:54:49 PM

I think there can be good BBQ anywhere. Heck, utee begrudgingly admitted he's been to a legit place in California. Even though I'm sure to him, that sounds like picante sauce made in New York City...

(https://i.imgur.com/ZAqbVSg.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 18, 2023, 10:45:02 PM

FACT OF THE DAY:

German-born American illustrator Thomas Nast (1840-1902) helped create the modern version of Santa as jolly, chubby, and dressed mainly in red. Coca-Cola further solidified his image in the mainstream media in 1931 when they used him in their advertising.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 19, 2023, 12:06:52 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 18, 2023, 03:54:49 PM

I think there can be good BBQ anywhere. Heck, utee begrudgingly admitted he's been to a legit place in California. Even though I'm sure to him, that sounds like picante sauce made in New York City...

What was that place? (I swear, I’ve actually had pretty good barbecue in New York City. But I think everyone who did the work there learned in Texas)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 19, 2023, 07:59:24 AM

There are two competing claims as to which president was the first to place a Christmas tree in the White House. Some scholars say President Franklin Pierce did in 1856; others say President Benjamin Harrison brought in the first tree in 1889. President Coolidge started the White House lighting ceremony in 1923.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 19, 2023, 08:12:06 AM

I don't recall this thread getting buried on the 3rd or 4th page..........

why pin this thread?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 19, 2023, 08:26:18 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 18, 2023, 04:32:13 PM

Daniel Vaughn says it's legit, so it's legit.

Mostly unrelated, but I used to live in a town that had a Texas-style barbecue truck pop-up. The guy who owned it spent a lot of time going down to Texas to learn the craft. Did some really good stuff.

after about seven years, get established a really nice little business. Someone convinced Vaughn to drop by on a swing through the south. The man came away saying good things, and oh man it was nice to see that. Just to see the reaction from the owner, who is a great guy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 19, 2023, 08:58:30 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 19, 2023, 08:12:06 AM

I don't recall this thread getting buried on the 3rd or 4th page..........

why pin this thread?

Not sure how that happened. It's unpinned now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 19, 2023, 09:03:13 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on December 19, 2023, 12:06:52 AM

What was that place? (I swear, I’ve actually had pretty good barbecue in New York City. But I think everyone who did the work there learned in Texas)

I don't remember the name of the place, it was probably around 2006, 2007, when I was traveling to the Bay Area most often.  The joint was somewhere between San Jose and Palo Alto.  And it was legitimately quite good, not just "good for being in California." ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on December 19, 2023, 10:39:08 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 19, 2023, 09:03:13 AM

I don't remember the name of the place, it was probably around 2006, 2007, when I was traveling to the Bay Area most often.  The joint was somewhere between San Jose and Palo Alto.  And it was legitimately quite good, not just "good for being in California." ;)

I’ll have to look into that. The last Texas style place I went in California was just a horrendous dud. There was a really well regarded place in Oakland, and I was going to try it over Thanksgiving. But then they had a fire and might be in debt up to their eyeballs, so I’m not sure how much longer that will last

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 19, 2023, 11:43:14 AM

I think there's a good local place down here. It's called Brad's Backyard BBQ or something like that...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 19, 2023, 12:18:51 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/NDPdB05.jpg)

My view this morning.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 19, 2023, 12:49:42 PM

Hawaii has some good BBQ

pig in a pit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 19, 2023, 01:49:01 PM

The pig is OK I guess. They are better at chicken.

And PLEASE do not put that purple shit on my plate.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 19, 2023, 02:00:57 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 19, 2023, 12:49:42 PM

Hawaii has some good BBQ

pig in a pit

Many, many cultures have traditions of low & slow cooked meats, and lots of them are VERY delicious. But I thought we were primarily discussing traditional American southern BBQ. 

Hawaii doesn't do that, which doesn't mean it's not delicious and wonderful, but it's a different discussion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2023, 02:18:55 PM

Pineapples and spam aren't bad - don't even need wet banana or palm leaves or a sand pit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 19, 2023, 03:06:15 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 19, 2023, 02:00:57 PM

Many, many cultures have traditions of low & slow cooked meats, and lots of them are VERY delicious. But I thought we were primarily discussing traditional American southern BBQ.

Hawaii doesn't do that, which doesn't mean it's not delicious and wonderful, but it's a different discussion.

Have you ever heard of BBQ shrimp in NOLA? It never touches any fire.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 19, 2023, 03:13:11 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 19, 2023, 03:06:15 PM

Have you ever heard of BBQ shrimp in NOLA? It never touches any fire.

I have not... Until now. Looked up a recipe and looks delicious. 

But it ain't BBQ. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 19, 2023, 03:35:35 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 19, 2023, 02:00:57 PM

Many, many cultures have traditions of low & slow cooked meats, and lots of them are VERY delicious. But I thought we were primarily discussing traditional American southern BBQ.

Hawaii doesn't do that, which doesn't mean it's not delicious and wonderful, but it's a different discussion.

Correct.   We were

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 19, 2023, 03:36:19 PM

NOLA style BBQ shrimp is indeed delicious.

And it is not BBQ.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 19, 2023, 03:39:28 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 19, 2023, 03:36:19 PM

NOLA style BBQ shrimp is indeed delicious.

And it is not BBQ.

Lots of people refer to a grill as a BBQ. The same people say they are throwing a BBQ. Dogs and burgers! BYOB!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 19, 2023, 03:53:58 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 19, 2023, 03:39:28 PM

Lots of people refer to a grill as a BBQ. The same people say they are throwing a BBQ. Dogs and burgers! BYOB!

Words are used to transmit ideas from person to person. And as such, context matters. 

"Hey man, I'm hosting a BBQ Saturday, wanna swing by?" can carry a different meaning than "Hey man, wanna come by for dinner Saturday? I'm serving BBQ." In the former, I'm probably expecting burgers & dogs, in the latter, I'm expecting a more traditional BBQ dish. 

That New Orleans dish can be called "BBQ Shrimp" which conveys meaning to anyone from or familiar with NOLA who will understand what that nomenclature means, while still not "being" BBQ. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 19, 2023, 03:57:12 PM

Demand perfection!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 19, 2023, 05:24:42 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 19, 2023, 03:39:28 PM

Lots of people refer to a grill as a BBQ. The same people say they are throwing a BBQ. Dogs and burgers! BYOB!

lots of uneducated yankees from up north

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on December 19, 2023, 05:35:19 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 19, 2023, 03:53:58 PM

Words are used to transmit ideas from person to person. And as such, context matters.

"Hey man, I'm hosting a BBQ Saturday, wanna swing by?" can carry a different meaning than "Hey man, wanna come by for dinner Saturday? I'm serving BBQ." In the former, I'm probably expecting burgers & dogs, in the latter, I'm expecting a more traditional BBQ dish.

That New Orleans dish can be called "BBQ Shrimp" which conveys meaning to anyone from or familiar with NOLA who will understand what that nomenclature means, while still not "being" BBQ.

The dictionary does not define a word, context does.  When I use to teach Biblical exegesis, I would use the example of the word ball.  I would ask what was the meaning of the word?  I would get different answers.  A round cylindrical item, A good time, A formal Dance, etc.  Then I would explain that the only thing that gave the word meaning and understanding is the context.  We have to understand the context to understanding the meaning.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 19, 2023, 05:48:11 PM

yes there can be such a thing as BBQ shrimp

You can BBQ any meat out there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 19, 2023, 05:49:38 PM

regardless of context.........

grilling something is not BBQing something or smokin something

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 19, 2023, 05:59:15 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 19, 2023, 05:49:38 PM

regardless of context.........

grilling something is not BBQing something or smokin something

however its possible to BBQ any meat

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 19, 2023, 06:11:01 PM

sure, you can also smoke cheese

it's also possible to grill any meat but, grilling a whole brisket isn't going to be tasty

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 19, 2023, 06:20:03 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 19, 2023, 06:11:01 PM

sure, you can also smoke cheese

it's also possible to grill any meat but, grilling a whole brisket isn't going to be tasty

Not talking about cheese not talking about just grilling Im talking about BBQing any meat

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 19, 2023, 06:27:01 PM

True Texas BBQ is done using a PIT burning wood (hickory etc) with a rotating rack using a rub and some other things

and again you can use any meat

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 19, 2023, 06:35:54 PM

Heres an example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceW75aDaV-k

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 19, 2023, 06:38:43 PM

What would happen if you tried to smoke shrimp?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 19, 2023, 06:51:10 PM

you'd end up with smokey shrimp

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 19, 2023, 07:26:25 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 19, 2023, 06:38:43 PM

What would happen if you tried to smoke shrimp?

You can certainly do it. You'd have to be careful and think it through. Two problems with smoking shrimp:

• Shrimp is a delicate flavor that could easily be overwhelmed trying to smoke it. 
• Because shrimp cooks very quickly, a low indirect heat method will not give you any browning or color. So depending on how you do it, it might not be all that appetizing to look at. 

If I did it, I'd probably consider doing it shell-on with the goal to make it sort of a peel & eat shrimp. Cooking in the shell is generally good for flavor, and the shell will also protect the shrimp from taking on too much smoke IMHO. I'd probably also marinade prior to cooking to add to probably both color and flavor. 

Looking at the googles, there are a lot of hits for "smoked shrimp recipes", so it's definitely something that is done. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 19, 2023, 07:48:04 PM

just not in Texas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 19, 2023, 08:17:51 PM

https://www.texasmonthly.com/food/smoked-and-grilled-shrimp/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 19, 2023, 09:03:44 PM

blasphemy!

where's the beef?!?

Texas is landlocked!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 19, 2023, 09:05:44 PM

I don't see any reason to smoke shrimp.  Either fry it, boil it and eat it or throw it in a cajun dish. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 19, 2023, 09:18:11 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 19, 2023, 09:05:44 PM

I don't see any reason to smoke shrimp.  Either fry it, boil it and eat it or throw it in a cajun dish. 

sometimes you guys are just too easy


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXKSDtLFBEU

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 20, 2023, 01:45:46 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 19, 2023, 09:03:44 PM

blasphemy!

where's the beef?!?

Texas is landlocked!

From Iowa

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 20, 2023, 07:19:00 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 19, 2023, 09:05:44 PM

I don't see any reason to smoke shrimp.  Either fry it, boil it and eat it or throw it in a cajun dish. 

Marinate it and grill it.

Season it and bake it (the best way to make shrimp cocktail).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on December 20, 2023, 07:24:52 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 19, 2023, 09:05:44 PM

I don't see any reason to smoke shrimp.  Either fry it, boil it and eat it or throw it in a cajun dish. 

If you have the grill going, why not? Throw a handful of wood chips in there for a smoky blast.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on December 20, 2023, 07:51:12 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 19, 2023, 06:27:01 PM

True Texas BBQ is done using a PIT burning wood (hickory etc) with a rotating rack using a rub and some other things

and again you can use any meat

And I’m kinda sure LH320 works for a BBQ company !  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 20, 2023, 08:15:10 AM

Quote from: Gigem on December 20, 2023, 07:51:12 AM

And I’m kinda sure LH320 works for a BBQ company ! 

Im retired now but was a CFO of one for 15 years here in Houston

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 20, 2023, 10:38:06 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 19, 2023, 06:27:01 PM

True Texas BBQ is done using a PIT burning wood (hickory etc) with a rotating rack using a rub and some other things

and again you can use any meat

Our restaurant had two big smoking chambers with rotating racks.

Most of the new places use very large offsets.

Of course you can smoke any protein.  You can smoke cheese.  You can smoke vegetables.

Doesn't change the fact that New Orleans style "BBQ Shrimp" is not BBQ.

But it's still tasty.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 20, 2023, 11:05:35 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/hOWyQzp.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 20, 2023, 11:07:14 AM

I was never highly involved with the actual cooking process as we had 24 locations in 3 states so I will never know as much about the art of BBQing like utee does

I was more involved with various contract negotiations and human resource management

and obviously financial statement creation

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 20, 2023, 11:28:10 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 20, 2023, 11:07:14 AM

I was never highly involved with the actual cooking process as we had 24 locations in 3 states so I will never know as much about the art of BBQing like utee does

I was more involved with various contract negotiations and human resource management

and obviously financial statement creation

Yup, we only had one location with I guess around  40-50 employees.

I started off as a youngster working in the back mopping floors and washing dishes.  Then I was bussing tables. Later I started working in food prep and catering, and finally I did a little part-time waiting tables in the final year or two before we sold it.

Of all those jobs the one I liked least, was waiting tables.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 20, 2023, 11:32:46 AM

Shut up and get me a Beer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 20, 2023, 11:52:56 AM

Quote from: utee94 on December 20, 2023, 10:38:06 AM

Doesn't change the fact that New Orleans style "BBQ Shrimp" is not BBQ.

I'm not sure why it's called BBQ shrimp.  I thought that dish is baked most of the time.  Why even put "bbq" into the name?  

Probably has an origin story, probably involving alcohol.  Some Cajun woke up from a drunken stupor one morning to the delicious creation he concocted in his inebriated state.  Asks his buddy--who was also drinking, of course--"Did I BBQ that?  I don't remember."  Buddy replies, "Um....yeah, I think so.  Maybe.  Probably.  Let's call it bbq shrimp." 

Something like that.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 20, 2023, 11:59:15 AM

Some restaurants sell "BBQ" chicken strips. Chicken fingers with a side of "BBQ" sauce.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 20, 2023, 12:30:16 PM

When you go to a BBQ restaurant when you get out of the car if you dont smell BBQ aroma turn around and drive to a place that you do cause that place cant be a real BBQ restaurant

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on December 20, 2023, 12:38:34 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 20, 2023, 11:59:15 AM

Some restaurants sell "BBQ" chicken strips. Chicken fingers with a side of "BBQ" sauce.

Better than them dousing them in BBQ sauce after frying before they bring them out to you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 20, 2023, 12:44:08 PM

Quote from: ELA on December 20, 2023, 12:38:34 PM

Better than them dousing them in BBQ sauce after frying before they bring them out to you

Right!! At least use Buffalo sauce. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 20, 2023, 01:00:09 PM

I love breaded Buffalo chicken wings, the kind that Hooter's makes.  I know that nekkid wings are the more traditional way to serve them, and I like them just fine, but not as much as the breaded kind.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 20, 2023, 01:03:24 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 20, 2023, 11:52:56 AM

I'm not sure why it's called BBQ shrimp.  I thought that dish is baked most of the time.  Why even put "bbq" into the name? 

Probably has an origin story, probably involving alcohol.  Some Cajun woke up from a drunken stupor one morning to the delicious creation he concocted in his inebriated state.  Asks his buddy--who was also drinking, of course--"Did I BBQ that?  I don't remember."  Buddy replies, "Um....yeah, I think so.  Maybe.  Probably.  Let's call it bbq shrimp." 

Something like that. 

https://americanshrimp.com/what-you-mean-barbecue-shrimp-arent-barbecued/

Quote

Most sources agree that the original recipe for barbecue shrimp was invented in a New Orleans restaurant called Pascal’s Manale in the mid-1950s. A customer who had recently come back from Chicago told the restaurant’s chef about a dish he had eaten there comprised of shrimp, butter and pepper. The chef whipped up a similar recipe, which the customer acknowledged was even better than the original, and it was added to the Pascal’s Manale menu where it remains to this day and has since spread across New Orleans and throughout the United States.

The “barbecue” in barbecue shrimp refers not to the process of barbecuing shrimp on a grill, but rather the sauce in which the shrimp are prepared that results in a smokey red, or “barbecued,” color!

I read this on the internet, so it must be true.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 20, 2023, 01:04:24 PM

Quote from: utee94 on December 20, 2023, 01:00:09 PM

I love breaded Buffalo chicken wings, the kind that Hooter's makes.  I know that nekkid wings are the more traditional way to serve them, and I like them just fine, but not as much as the breaded kind.

I prefer no breading, but I like them all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 20, 2023, 01:05:38 PM

I buy that, it's an apt description of the dish.  Anyway, they're really, REALLY tasty.  Ever since we took the kids to NOLA last summer, the kids beg for "BBQ shrimp" all the time and my i s c & a aggie wife has gotten pretty good at making it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 20, 2023, 01:06:06 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 20, 2023, 01:04:24 PM

I prefer no breading, but I like them all.

Yeah I think most people prefer them nekkid.  But not me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 20, 2023, 02:09:47 PM

Looks nice. Maybe I'll take a look at it.

A Miami Beach Home With Two Docks to List for $36 Million - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/real-estate/luxury-homes/a-miami-beach-home-with-two-docks-to-list-for-36-million-703a883c?mod=real-estate_lead_story)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 20, 2023, 02:15:52 PM

This is... not good.

Millions of student loan borrowers still aren’t paying their bills (foxbusiness.com) (https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/millions-student-loan-borrowers-still-arent-paying-their-bills)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 20, 2023, 02:49:25 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 20, 2023, 02:15:52 PM

This is... not good.

Millions of student loan borrowers still aren’t paying their bills (foxbusiness.com) (https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/millions-student-loan-borrowers-still-arent-paying-their-bills)

Good maybe the loans will stop or the college themselves will make them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 20, 2023, 07:00:47 PM

Going to top of Mauna Kea now.

Hit a blizzard on top. Rangers sent us down. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 21, 2023, 01:11:21 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 20, 2023, 02:15:52 PM

This is... not good.

Millions of student loan borrowers still aren’t paying their bills (foxbusiness.com) (https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/millions-student-loan-borrowers-still-arent-paying-their-bills)

Maybe the decades-long stagnant wages come into play here....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 21, 2023, 02:56:53 AM

Maybe we should use real data. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 21, 2023, 09:14:35 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 20, 2023, 02:15:52 PM

This is... not good.

Millions of student loan borrowers still aren’t paying their bills (foxbusiness.com) (https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/millions-student-loan-borrowers-still-arent-paying-their-bills)

back in the 90s when the ex wasn't paying her student loans they were preparing to garnish her husband's wages
so, I paid for that diploma from the U of Iowa

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on December 21, 2023, 10:12:11 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 20, 2023, 02:15:52 PM

This is... not good.

Millions of student loan borrowers still aren’t paying their bills (foxbusiness.com) (https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/millions-student-loan-borrowers-still-arent-paying-their-bills)

It would help if the loan services had their act together. They don't. 

https://thehill.com/homenews/education/4357918-borrowers-sue-student-loan-servicer/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 21, 2023, 10:12:55 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 21, 2023, 01:11:21 AM

Maybe the decades-long stagnant wages come into play here....

Wages are stagnant for some, but not all. Anyone with a real degree or trade certificate does just fine.

Have you looked at the cost of education versus inflation in the past 30 or so years? 

My guess is you haven't, based on your statement.

Colleges have raised tuition because they know that students can get Government (taxpayer) backed loans, no matter the means or cost.

Maybe this will help you.


(https://i.imgur.com/OwVMN7R.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 21, 2023, 10:15:30 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on December 21, 2023, 10:12:11 AM

It would help if the loan services had their act together. They don't.

https://thehill.com/homenews/education/4357918-borrowers-sue-student-loan-servicer/

It would help more if students got real degrees or certificates.

Too many kids go to college in this country, and many go just to go, or for all the wrong reasons.

CDawg has said 65% of US kid go to college, while that number is 35% in Utopia (Europe).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 21, 2023, 10:19:36 AM

Student loan forgiveness for government workers (or anyone else) is not good.

You buy a car and don't pay? Here comes the repo man.

You buy a house and don't pay? Here comes the bank for your keys.

Why should student loans be forgiven (to gain voters)? 

How about "we" forgive all mortgages too?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on December 21, 2023, 10:39:33 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 21, 2023, 10:15:30 AM

It would help more if students got real degrees or certificates.

Too many kids go to college in this country, and many go just to go, or for all the wrong reasons.

CDawg has said 65% of US kid go to college, while that number is 35% in Utopia (Europe).

Yes in Europe they decide around 8th grade or so, whether you're likely to end up on a university track, or go into trades.  Then they start tailoring the secondary education toward those objectives, and feed students into the appropriate post-high-school educational facilities.  For 35%, that's university.  Everyone else is steered toward a trade that is better suited to their talents/desires/capabilities.

But unlike, here, the "trades" don't have so much of a negative connotation.  They're much more respected than here.  And the "trades" are better but also more widely defined.

For example, "Hopsitality/Service" is a well-respected trade.  Restaurant workers, hotel workers, bartenders-- they start out on this track in late high school and then have specific vocational training over the course of a year or two or three, underpinned by a strong job placement staff at most of the trade schools.  My friend and bartender at my hotel where I lived in France, had gone through secondary school targeted at hospitality, then a 2-year post-high-school program, and then basically served an apprenticeship of a couple of years, on cruise ships out of Port Canaveral, FL.  He was a bad-ass bartender who spoke multiple languages fluently, and could cook just a about anything.  Some of my favorite meals in France, were when he'd invite mt to his home and cook all sorts of French specialties.

Anyway, TL; DR -- universities were never meant to be used as vocational schools and they do a poor job of it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on December 21, 2023, 10:54:41 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 21, 2023, 10:19:36 AM

Student loan forgiveness for government workers (or anyone else) is not good.

You buy a car and don't pay? Here comes the repo man.

You buy a house and don't pay? Here comes the bank for your keys.

Why should student loans be forgiven (to gain voters)?

How about "we" forgive all mortgages too?

Student loan forgiveness means that talented people can afford to work in public service.

Maybe not so much for engineers, who can start right away and don't need a MS for a license, but especially when required to get six-figure masters degrees before becoming eligible to practice at pay rates that make Ebenezer Scrooge look benevolent. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on December 21, 2023, 11:09:37 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 21, 2023, 10:19:36 AM

Student loan forgiveness for government workers (or anyone else) is not good.

You buy a car and don't pay? Here comes the repo man.

You buy a house and don't pay? Here comes the bank for your keys.

Why should student loans be forgiven (to gain voters)?

How about "we" forgive all mortgages too?

Counterpoint: you can get all sorts of debt forgiven for a variety of reasons. That has helped businesses and people move on from bad deals without being destitute, and increases risk taking and the economy. So why should young people increasing their education be treated differently?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 21, 2023, 11:14:01 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on December 21, 2023, 11:09:37 AM

Counterpoint: you can get all sorts of debt forgiven for a variety of reasons. That has helped businesses and people move on from bad deals without being destitute, and increases risk taking and the economy. So why should young people increasing their education be treated differently?

because they are reaching into our pockets and spending our money without approval

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 21, 2023, 11:55:40 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 21, 2023, 10:12:55 AM

Have you looked at the cost of education versus inflation in the past 30 or so years?

I graduated in '02 from one of the smaller state schools...not as expensive as LSU.  My tuition was ~$1100 per semester for five 3-credit-hours classes.  It was a little more than that after you factor in textbooks and some other fees, but in the terms people usually refer to, it was about that much.  

About 7-8 years ago I was talking to a friend of mine in Louisiana and she mentioned her daughter being at that same college and they paid $5k per semester.  I couldn't believe it because that way outpaced inflation, but she assured me that's what they paid.  Now we pay half of my stepson's tuition at a comparable university in Texas, not far away from the school I went to.  It's about $5.5k per semester.  I know for a fact that people at this school back when I was in school were also paying about $1100, just as I did.  So in about 15 years, that's how much tuition ballooned at these schools.  

I think tuition right now at LSU is something like $10k per semester, double what it is at these smaller universities.  But I'm not positive about that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 21, 2023, 07:58:12 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 21, 2023, 10:12:55 AM

Wages are stagnant for some, but not all. Anyone with a real degree or trade certificate does just fine.

Have you looked at the cost of education versus inflation in the past 30 or so years?

My guess is you haven't, based on your statement.

Colleges have raised tuition because they know that students can get Government (taxpayer) backed loans, no matter the means or cost.

Maybe this will help you.


(https://i.imgur.com/OwVMN7R.png)

Everyone knows higher education has skyrocketed 1000+%.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 21, 2023, 08:00:54 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 21, 2023, 10:19:36 AM

Student loan forgiveness for government workers (or anyone else) is not good.

You buy a car and don't pay? Here comes the repo man.

You buy a house and don't pay? Here comes the bank for your keys.

Why should student loans be forgiven (to gain voters)?

How about "we" forgive all mortgages too?

17 year olds aren't legally held accountable as children, but 2 years later you want them held to lifelong debt?  
What sense does that make?

Your one-size-fits-all bullshit attitude of "handle your shit" is vapid.  You're smarter than it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 21, 2023, 08:48:42 PM

17 year olds are only a small fraction of student loan holders and if thats your only defense for forgiveness it really is minor

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 22, 2023, 07:52:18 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 21, 2023, 08:48:42 PM

17 year olds are only a small fraction of student loan holders and if thats your only defense for forgiveness it really is minor

Correct. That and their parents must co-sign for the loan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 22, 2023, 07:56:47 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 21, 2023, 08:00:54 PM

17 year olds aren't legally held accountable as children, but 2 years later you want them held to lifelong debt? 
What sense does that make?

Your one-size-fits-all bullshit attitude of "handle your shit" is vapid.  You're smarter than it.

One size fits all is very close. Too many kids go to college for the wrong reasons.

See my post above, about 65% in the US versus 35% in Utopia (Europe).

Utopia decides for you around the 8th grade whether you are college material. Here, everyone gets a trophy and can go to college.

Maybe we really should be more like Utopia after all!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 22, 2023, 09:43:08 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 22, 2023, 07:56:47 AM

Maybe we really should be more like Utopia after all!!

You shut your whore mouth.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 22, 2023, 09:45:56 AM

Italy is looking better and better...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 22, 2023, 09:55:03 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 21, 2023, 11:55:40 AM

I graduated in '02 from one of the smaller state schools...not as expensive as LSU.  My tuition was ~$1100 per semester for five 3-credit-hours classes.  It was a little more than that after you factor in textbooks and some other fees, but in the terms people usually refer to, it was about that much. 

About 7-8 years ago I was talking to a friend of mine in Louisiana and she mentioned her daughter being at that same college and they paid $5k per semester.  I couldn't believe it because that way outpaced inflation, but she assured me that's what they paid.  Now we pay half of my stepson's tuition at a comparable university in Texas, not far away from the school I went to.  It's about $5.5k per semester.  I know for a fact that people at this school back when I was in school were also paying about $1100, just as I did.  So in about 15 years, that's how much tuition ballooned at these schools. 

I think tuition right now at LSU is something like $10k per semester, double what it is at these smaller universities.  But I'm not positive about that.

When I started at UW, my OOS tuition was $11K/year.

I got residency in my second year as I had a studio apartment up there and paid state income tax and was working part time as a test grader and TA (yes, as an undergrad) in hydraulics labs. Changed my DL and license plates. I lived there 3 nights/week - sometimes 2 because I was working full-time in Rosemont, IL - 120 miles away.

My in-state tuition was $2200/year then, for the last two years.

Now, in-state is $10K and OOS is $40K.

This is 30+ years ago when I was there.

My community college was $30/credit hour when I started 40 years ago. It is now $135/credit hour.


Do the math.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 22, 2023, 10:10:55 AM

Time to start dropping rates now. I hope the Fed is paying attention.

https://www.wsj.com/economy/what-to-watch-in-fridays-spending-report-inflation-closing-in-on-feds-target-0778037d?st=z41kss3vilah5hs&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 22, 2023, 10:49:03 AM

According to the Interwebz, in-state tuition for a year at LSU is $11,954, not much more than some of these smaller schools I reference.  It doesn't say how many hours that's for or what exactly a "year" means, but I'm assuming that's a spring and a fall semester, no summer, for five classes each.  Out of state tuition is $28,631 annually. 

But then it lists something called "Other Expenses" which is thousands of dollars, and is not the same as Books & Supplies or Room & Board.  With all those things added in, in-state students pay $35,158/yr and out of states pay $51,836/yr. 

Jeez. 

No way in hell I'd recommend somebody go to a place like that.  It's not like they know a better kind of math, history, or whatever, than somewhere else.  The "prestige" of a more well-known university also doesn't hold water when the research is clear that students who excel wherever they are succeed at a much higher rate post-school-career than students who are run-of-the-mill wherever they are.  i.e., take a Valedictorian at Podunk U and an average kid from Harvard, the Podunk U kid has a much higher success rate. 

Go somewhere cheap and excel.  If a university is where you need to be in the first place.  $140 - 175k for in-state or $208 - 260k for out-of-state for a degree from a place that largely makes you dumber and doesn't even teach you how to boil crawfish?  Nah.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 22, 2023, 12:31:37 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 21, 2023, 08:48:42 PM

17 year olds are only a small fraction of student loan holders and if thats your only defense for forgiveness it really is minor

I meant 17 year olds in general, not that they're any fraction of those holding debt, lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 22, 2023, 12:50:39 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 22, 2023, 12:31:37 PM

I meant 17 year olds in general, not that they're any fraction of those holding debt, lol.

The subject was forgiveness of student loans not 17 year olds in general

if your point is the gov should not loan money to 17 year olds I agree but again thats not what we are discussing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 22, 2023, 12:53:46 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 22, 2023, 12:50:39 PM

The subject was forgiveness of student loans not 17 year olds in general

if your point is the gov should not loan money to 17 year olds I agree but again thats not what we are discussing

Jesus Christ.
My point was that 17 year olds aren't expected to be held accountable for anything, but 2 years later, they're free to take on life-long crippling debt.
That's a bad system.
.
Nothing to do with 17 year olds getting loans.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 22, 2023, 12:55:18 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 21, 2023, 10:15:30 AM

It would help more if students got real degrees or certificates.

Too many kids go to college in this country, and many go just to go, or for all the wrong reasons.

CDawg has said 65% of US kid go to college, while that number is 35% in Utopia (Europe).

They were told they should go to college from the time they were 5 years old.
How is it on them?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 22, 2023, 01:05:09 PM

Because we all listened to our parents out of High School or didn't take our own path

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 22, 2023, 01:27:24 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 22, 2023, 12:55:18 PM

They were told they should go to college from the time they were 5 years old.
How is it on them?

You are building a straw man
nobody here thinks 17 year olds should be signing contracts

again the subject which for some reason youre trying to change is forgiveness of all student debt which is in the trillions

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 22, 2023, 02:47:52 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 22, 2023, 12:55:18 PM

They were told they should go to college from the time they were 5 years old.
How is it on them?

Parents are stupid too, but from what I can see around my rather large circle of friends, associates and colleagues is that they are wising up to the farce.

Enrollment in technical schools and trade schools is rising rapidly. This is good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on December 22, 2023, 02:56:27 PM

Private colleges are free to charge whatever they want to in my opinion. However state supported colleges and universities should be looked at closely over their tuition and other expenses.

enough is enough

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 22, 2023, 03:16:34 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on December 22, 2023, 02:56:27 PM

Private colleges are free to charge whatever they want to in my opinion. However state supported colleges and universities should be looked at closely over their tuition and other expenses.

enough is enough

Events over the past 2+ months are going to change enrollment at many of the "elite" colleges. Donors have already reacted.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on December 22, 2023, 03:57:35 PM

I have permanently banished higher ed from any donations.    I feel less connected each passing year.  The obstinance and hubris is other worldly.

I am not looking forward to my daughter's college selection process.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 22, 2023, 05:20:17 PM

My mother believed strongly in education. 

She insisted that I attend a 4 year university. 

I wanted to go to a tech school for auto body and paint.

So I dropped out of the engineering college at UNL.

Probably best I didn't learn to paint cars.  Found out I was color blind 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 22, 2023, 07:56:45 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 22, 2023, 02:47:52 PM

Enrollment in technical schools and trade schools is rising rapidly. This is good.

I agree.


But if a certain generation is so damned awful, one need only to look at the previous generation for why.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 22, 2023, 09:33:29 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/nvCCqDc.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 22, 2023, 09:34:28 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/bOIxf6f.jpg)

Kilauea 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 22, 2023, 10:08:13 PM

If you zoom in, you'll see some future Utah defensive linemen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 23, 2023, 08:58:56 AM

Interesting read.

Gen Z Doesn't Value Higher Education. Colleges Should Be in Freak-Out Mode. (businessinsider.com) (https://www.businessinsider.com/gen-z-value-of-college-higher-education-student-debt-tuition-2023-12)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on December 23, 2023, 09:08:21 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 22, 2023, 05:20:17 PM

My mother believed strongly in education.

She insisted that I attend a 4 year university.

I wanted to go to a tech school for auto body and paint.

So I dropped out of the engineering college at UNL.

Probably best I didn't learn to paint cars.  Found out I was color blind

You and Earl Scheib on the same team would have cornered the market

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 23, 2023, 10:41:06 AM

I only took out student loans for about $3,000 total.
Something I could easily afford.
When the alternative to dropping out was more loans I made the right decision.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 23, 2023, 12:25:30 PM

I view a college degree as a magical piece of paper you have to earn, not any particular knowledge base it's supposed to come with.
With the piece of paper, you can get this career job that earns you many more dollars than the alternative.  

I kind of look at it like our money being disconnected from the gold standard.  The degree is the dollar and the knowledge is the gold backing it.  
Not a great plan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 23, 2023, 12:26:51 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 23, 2023, 12:25:30 PM

I view a college degree as a magical piece of paper you have to earn, not any particular knowledge base it's supposed to come with.
With the piece of paper, you can get this career job that earns you many more dollars than the alternative. 

I kind of look at it like our money being disconnected from the gold standard.  The degree is the dollar and the knowledge is the gold backing it. 
Not a great plan.

Depends on the degree.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 23, 2023, 02:10:12 PM

and depends on the magician 

some folks think the paper holds more magic than others

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 27, 2023, 11:26:05 AM

Haven't heard the word much since we left Chicago.

Urban Dictionary: Chumbolone (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Chumbolone)

The Neapolitan Barber and the Origins of the Legendary “No Chumbolone” Cap - John Kass (johnkassnews.com) (https://johnkassnews.com/the-neapolitan-barber-and-the-origins-of-the-legendary-no-chumbolone-cap/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 27, 2023, 11:58:58 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on December 23, 2023, 02:10:12 PM

and depends on the magician

some folks think the paper holds more magic than others

Most (many?) jobs have a prerequisite right on the application.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on December 27, 2023, 12:04:58 PM

I know we interviewed folks. A degree was necessary but not sufficient. We hired about one in 8 interviewed after selecting the 8 based on campus interviews.  


Dunno how else to do it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 27, 2023, 12:11:49 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 27, 2023, 11:58:58 AM

Most (many?) jobs have a prerequisite right on the application. 

yup, some magicians think folks w/o the magical paper aren't worthy

don't know anyway else to do it 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on December 31, 2023, 10:36:01 AM

On December 29 1975 Rush opens for Ted Nugent at Cobo Hall in Detroit

(https://i.imgur.com/kut0jDY.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 31, 2023, 11:02:27 AM

Weird history!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 01, 2024, 03:09:29 AM

Have WiFi at 32,000 feet. On time. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 03, 2024, 07:58:36 AM

I took the GTI to the dealer for an oil change, and they told me it needed:

New spark plugs
New brake pads and rotors
New battery
New air filter

Total cost over $2K.  I said nyet, might be moving up the CUV purchase.  I had the battery checked this AM by AAA and dude said it read fine.  Brake pads should last longer, it has under 34 K miles, no squealing.  Air filter, OK, maybe so, I can do that myself.

I was a bit amused, and not in a good way.  

There are hardly any Hyundai Tuscon Limited Hybrids anywhere around.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 03, 2024, 08:21:22 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 23, 2023, 12:26:51 PM

Depends on the degree.

Or the paper - you can buy gold and get a stock certificate saying you own it.But unless it's in a your basement vault - i call bullshit. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 03, 2024, 09:23:46 AM

it doesn't need spark plugs either

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 03, 2024, 09:34:38 AM

Nope.  I might change the air filter myself, it's easy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 03, 2024, 09:49:02 AM

might want to inspect it
you might need it as badly as the other items

with less than 40,000 miles and not much driving on dirt/gravel....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 03, 2024, 10:16:26 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 03, 2024, 07:58:36 AM

I took the GTI to the dealer for an oil change, and they told me it needed:

New spark plugs
New brake pads and rotors
New battery
New air filter

Total cost over $2K.  I said nyet

I follow a an online sensation(at least to me) a mechanic on YT by the name of Scotty Kilmer.Guy is in his 70's and been around the block so to speak he has had some stellar videos - outs the automotive industry for the kleptos they are. Amazing how the dealerships have basically turned into scam artists that would put Mt Haney to shame.

One guy emailed Scotty he had bought some upscale ride all oil changes lubes for the 1st 10 k were free by the dealer .Think the manufacture recommended at least 2 oil changes by that time.So the Dealer said they did all the recommended/scheduled maintenance but the oil engine light came on not long after leaving - so he took it to an independent shop.They not only didn't change the oil but it was low and they didn't change the cabin air filter like they stated on the service sheet either. Take those chodes out back blind fold them and give them their last smoke :violent-smiley-007:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 03, 2024, 10:26:24 AM

My dad always told me never to take my vehicle to the dealer for repair.  I did it one time anyway and they wanted $3000 to fix the camshaft, which they said was bad and needed replacing.  I took it to a diesel mechanic in south Austin I trusted more and he said he had bad news, my camshaft sensor was bad and it would be about $300 to replace it.  I told him what the dealership told me, and he asked how long they kept my truck.  I told him I was only there for a little bit before they told me the problem.  He then told me the only way to know if the actual part is bad is to tear into the truck and get to it and look at it, which would take hours, and there's no way they did that in the time they had it.  He surmised they ran their little electronic diagnostic thingy and the sensor showed a faulty part.  Then he told me it would be very rare for the camshaft to really need replacing, but my model truck was notorious for the camshaft sensor going bad, and he had checked the sensor itself and was confident it needed replacing no matter what was going on with the camshaft itself.  He suggested I let him replace it and see what happens.  So I did and it was fine.  New sensor showed everything was A-ok.  So I could've let the dealership replace a part that didn't need replacing, and I'd still have had a bad sensor, and I'd have spent $2700 more dollars than I actually wound up spending. 

Short version--I never took a vehicle to a dealer again.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 03, 2024, 10:48:20 AM

After the warranty expires => no dealer.

I found a good mechanic down here. Only works on German cars, and Volvo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 03, 2024, 10:57:48 AM

I have a good relationship with my Chevy dealer

I've known one of the service managers since we were both 15 or 16.
Kurt started working there in high school washing & cleaning cars
The other service manager is a personal friend - his daughter and my youngest were in the same class and very good friends.
know 3 of the salesmen very well - golfers and Husker fans
I purchased all the fleet vehicles for my past company there for 20 years.
Also know a couple of the mechanics in the shop.

They treat me very well and I can trust them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 03, 2024, 11:26:54 AM

Well if they're such good friends why are they letting you drive Chevy's? Back in the day hell ya but you couldn't give me a Silverado now

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 03, 2024, 11:38:58 AM

Why do you say that about Chevys?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 03, 2024, 11:50:28 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 03, 2024, 11:26:54 AM

Well if they're such good friends why are they letting you drive Chevy's? Back in the day hell ya but you couldn't give me a Silverado now

Shut your WHORE mouth!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 03, 2024, 12:05:51 PM

I won't be going back.  I only went to change the oil, once a year, the first three were free.  The problem is finding out who you can trust, usually by finding out who you can't.  I called AAA this morning, they have "decent" battery prices ($189).  The dude came out and measured stuff and said the bat is still good, 5.5 years old.

It was slowish starting when we returned from our trip, I think it was just undercharged with drainage while we were gone.  We probably didn't drive it for 17 days or so.  Parasites.  

It starts fine now.  I'm kind of amazed how few CUV hybrids are available in the metro area, like nearly none, and almost zero at the top equipment level.  The closest Kia is in Kentucky.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 03, 2024, 01:12:41 PM

I've had Fords and Chevys and Chrysler/MOPAR.  None have been particularly better or worse than the others.

Best car we've had by far was the Honda Accord.

Worst car by far was the Toyota Solara.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 03, 2024, 01:46:51 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 03, 2024, 12:05:51 PM

It was slowish starting when we returned from our trip, I think it was just undercharged with drainage while we were gone.  We probably didn't drive it for 17 days or so.  Parasites. 

It starts fine now.  I'm kind of amazed how few CUV hybrids are available in the metro area, like nearly none, and almost zero at the top equipment level.  The closest Kia is in Kentucky.

Not sure if you have an outlet in/near your car with your parking situation, but I bought a relatively inexpensive trickle charger off Amazon for the Jeep, since I can sometimes go a few weeks w/o driving it. Good thing to have if you have a vehicle that may sit a while at a time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 03, 2024, 02:20:12 PM

yup, bought the popular battery tender for my 4x4 truck that rarely is driven -only to haul/tow something or when the snow gets deep.

Twice this past summer & fall

(https://www.batterytender.com/Battery%20Tender%20Website%20Images/021-0123.BatteryTender.02.SideView.NH.jpg?resizeid=11&resizeh=545&resizew=545)

about $40
set it and forget it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 03, 2024, 02:31:13 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 03, 2024, 01:12:41 PM

Worst car by far was the Toyota Solara. 

That's unfortunate.  I would expect that was a random lemon.  Isn't that basically a Camry?  In which case, I've known many people who loved theirs and never had problems with them, and their service record is really good.  

Also everybody with Hondas I've known have also liked theirs, and had hardly any problems with them.  For some reason my back never did well in Honda seats, so they're a no for me, but the wife likes hers.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 03, 2024, 02:54:17 PM

On college and the magical piece of paper:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/srEsT5h4gdo (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/srEsT5h4gdo)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 03, 2024, 02:57:38 PM

spot on

but there are tons of folks that truly believe there's much more magic in the paper than that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 04, 2024, 09:26:11 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 03, 2024, 02:31:13 PM

That's unfortunate.  I would expect that was a random lemon.  Isn't that basically a Camry?  In which case, I've known many people who loved theirs and never had problems with them, and their service record is really good. 

Also everybody with Hondas I've known have also liked theirs, and had hardly any problems with them.  For some reason my back never did well in Honda seats, so they're a no for me, but the wife likes hers. 

Maybe it was a lemon but I'm sure as shootin' never gonna buy another Toyota again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 04, 2024, 09:29:53 AM

I might get by in life with never owning a Japanese vehicle

that was a big negative back in the 70s when the invasion started

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 04, 2024, 09:47:34 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 03, 2024, 01:46:51 PM

Not sure if you have an outlet in/near your car with your parking situation, but I bought a relatively inexpensive trickle charger off Amazon for the Jeep, since I can sometimes go a few weeks w/o driving it. Good thing to have if you have a vehicle that may sit a while at a time.

Yeah, nope, good idea though, moot now.

I had a friend who had a Solara back when, he liked me to drive him around in it at times.  I thought it was junk, but he liked it.  He owned a repair shop and I bought an older Honda CRV from him.  I think any car can be a lemon.  I just signed some "Lemon Law" paperwork last night.  The guy said they had one a year they couldn't fix, usually electronic related.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 04, 2024, 10:50:20 AM

In other news..........

I'm pointing the Impala north in a few minutes.
The Texans won't miss me.
Headed to Manhattan, KS for the night - about 7 hours away
Maybe I'll shoot SkiCat a text - see if I can buy him a beer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 04, 2024, 10:52:12 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 04, 2024, 10:50:20 AM

In other news..........

I'm pointing the Impala north in a few minutes.
The Texans won't miss me.
Headed to Manhattan, KS for the night - about 7 hours away
Maybe I'll shoot SkiCat a text - see if I can buy him a beer

Safe travels FF!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 04, 2024, 10:09:10 PM

Safe in Manhappy

Ski wouldn't let me buy him a beer
meeting him in the morning for breakfast

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 06, 2024, 09:14:36 AM

Skicat report:::::

The guy is doing well. 
Had a weird health issue a while back but seems to be on the right track for good health. 
Great breakfast at the Chef.
Sat next to a table of 6 kstate football coaches.   Skicat knew 5 of them. 

Ski was interested in all of us and other posters.  He says hi. 
Yes, I told him about the board meeting next fall. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 06, 2024, 12:30:23 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 04, 2024, 09:29:53 AM

I might get by in life with never owning a Japanese vehicle

that was a big negative back in the 70s when the invasion started

3 Corolla's have lasted me 33 yrs so far and that was with rust taking the 1st one after 16 yrs. The 2nd was taken after 8 yrs because of an accident and I bought that used.Took the insurance money and bought a 3rd used also that I'm still driving today. And I was Chevrolet guy as were my dad/brothers but their lack of detail,design and staying on top of quality pushed me over. The Japanese Companies did what we used to so well as the BIG 3 was just looking for big and quick paydays

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 06, 2024, 01:06:16 PM

I think most new cars today are quite reliable and trouble free (I hope anyway).

They do have a LOT of computerized stuff on them now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 06, 2024, 01:39:06 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 06, 2024, 09:14:36 AM

Skicat report:::::

The guy is doing well.
Had a weird health issue a while back but seems to be on the right track for good health.
Great breakfast at the Chef.
Sat next to a table of 6 kstate football coaches.  Skicat knew 5 of them.

Ski was interested in all of us and other posters.  He says hi.
Yes, I told him about the board meeting next fall.

Were the Chiefs' scouts there?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 06, 2024, 04:06:31 PM

unfortunately, no

we did git the Hayfield lawyer on the group text

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 06, 2024, 04:07:26 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 06, 2024, 12:30:23 PM

3 Corolla's have lasted me 33 yrs so far and that was with rust taking the 1st one after 16 yrs. The 2nd was taken after 8 yrs because of an accident and I bought that used.Took the insurance money and bought a 3rd used also that I'm still driving today. And I was Chevrolet guy as were my dad/brothers but their lack of detail,design and staying on top of quality pushed me over. The Japanese Companies did what we used to so well as the BIG 3 was just looking for big and quick paydays

traitor! 
American manufacturing union killer!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 06, 2024, 04:14:28 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 06, 2024, 04:07:26 PM

traitor!
American manufacturing union killer!

Ya as GM had moved I forget how many jobs to Mexico claiming a world car and all that BS. Not only weren't they taxed as imports because they were US Companies but those kind men at Corporate never came down on the price of the cars as quality of workmanship took a hit. I wonder where all the money they saved went to as they didn't pass it along to consumers,hmm real (https://www.cfb51.com/Smileys/fantasticsmileys/017.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 06, 2024, 04:16:41 PM

remember Pearl Harbor!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 06, 2024, 04:19:23 PM

Corporate should have remembered The Alamo then :celebrate:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 06, 2024, 04:22:00 PM

you remember the old daze

pulling up in a rice burner at the local pub was similar to buzzing the Hell's Angels with a Kawasaki

caused some family members to be excluded from holiday gatherings

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 06, 2024, 04:28:26 PM

As I remember it, the Japanese automakers were already eating the Big Three's lunch when it came to reliability well before NAFTA. Problem was everything looked like a shitty econobox. Once they hired some decent designers and made their cars look on par with modernity, they actually gained serious traction...

I've always used the below heuristic when looking at the various options:

• Domestic: cheap to acquire, breaks regularly, cheap to fix
• Japanese: a little more expensive to acquire, rarely breaks, cheap to fix
• German & Euro in general: expensive to acquire, breaks regularly, arm&leg to fix

The Koreans are in an interesting place, sort of finding their way like the Japanese automakers were doing in the 90s. My take is that they tend to be cheap and reliable, but they've been sorta all over the map when it comes to styling so far. In general I've been impressed with the cars overall but some of them are ugly as sin. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 06, 2024, 04:33:27 PM

BTW I've almost always found my way to domestics, because they're cheaper to acquire and I can handle a lot of the basic work myself--and when I don't, there are plenty of quality mechanics outside the dealerships that I can find someone competent and trustworthy. But my wife wanted a Lexus, and I know a local Lexus dealer from homebrewing so I knew I'd get a good deal, so she has a Lexus. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 06, 2024, 04:34:57 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 06, 2024, 04:22:00 PM

you remember the old daze

pulling up in a rice burner at the local pub was similar to buzzing the Hell's Angels with a Kawasaki

caused some family members to be excluded from holiday gatherings

Wha...are you eating sponge cake and drinking schnapps with your runzas? Never owned a bike came too close to becoming a hood ornament peddling one

And my 1st Corolla was a '90 as I was going to buy a Geo Prizm which were actually Corolla drive tranes made in Fremont Cali.My dad got the A-Plan thru Chevy but for kicks and giggles I stopped at a Toyota Dealership that a few friends were wrenches at. I actually cut a better deal than that.That car only broke down like the last year I had it,something in the ignition module had corroded

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 06, 2024, 04:37:15 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 06, 2024, 04:28:26 PM

The Koreans are in an interesting place, sort of finding their way like the Japanese automakers were doing in the 90s. My take is that they tend to be cheap and reliable, but they've been sorta all over the map when it comes to styling so far. In general I've been impressed with the cars overall but some of them are ugly as sin.

I'd by the ugliest car on the lot if it lasted the longest with the fewest problems

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 06, 2024, 05:15:04 PM

I'll take yer word for it if ya drove this..........

(https://i.imgur.com/ypeoUwb.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 06, 2024, 05:27:01 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 06, 2024, 04:34:57 PM

Wha...are you eating sponge cake and drinking schnapps with your runzas? Never owned a bike came too close to becoming a hood ornament peddling one

And my 1st Corolla was a '90 as I was going to buy a Geo Prizm which were actually Corolla drive tranes made in Fremont Cali.My dad got the A-Plan thru Chevy but for kicks and giggles I stopped at a Toyota Dealership that a few friends were wrenches at. I actually cut a better deal than that.That car only broke down like the last year I had it,something in the ignition module had corroded

I can't really imagine owning either of them

in 1990 I was probably driving a mid 80's Caprice Classic

(https://i.imgur.com/M9oiwxY.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 07, 2024, 06:29:16 AM

I was driving a minivan for years.  They were quite functional, and boring.  The good news is my wife says she really really likes the Tuscon.  I like it "OK", it's certainly not very exciting, but boring can be OK for long drives, and it's much quieter than I expected.

And it has a lot of features, some of which I'll never use.  A couple nice to have are memory driver's seat and cooled seats and a power rear tailgate that opens handsfree if you need that.  The height is also adjustable which is a nice feature so it doesn't clunk off the ceiling.  She wanted the ventilated seats.  We had them in the CTS but I couldn't tell they were on, these in the new car are pretty noticeable.

The steering is pretty numb, which is predictable.  Handling and acceleration are in the adequate range.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 08, 2024, 09:53:48 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/9KMdKzg.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 08, 2024, 10:22:15 AM

I'll wait til MDT stops by to see if it checks out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 08, 2024, 10:59:09 AM

https://youtu.be/GTWjp4iJsQg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 08, 2024, 11:02:52 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 08, 2024, 10:22:15 AM

I'll wait til MDT stops by to see if it checks out.

Sometimes stereotypes are true.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on January 08, 2024, 12:29:13 PM

Would have assumed this was a lifetime deal

https://www.nbcsports.com/golf/news/tiger-woods-announces-his-longtime-nike-partnership-has-ended

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 08, 2024, 12:41:44 PM

his golf life is over

and Nike has been out of golf equipment a long time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 08, 2024, 02:46:09 PM

This is a topic we discuss around here from time to time.  Interesting data, doesn't include private schools.

(https://i.imgur.com/M3TkHxV.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on January 08, 2024, 03:18:37 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 08, 2024, 12:41:44 PM

his golf life is over

and Nike has been out of golf equipment a long time

Oh I'm not questioning it, I'm just surprised it could just end like this

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 08, 2024, 03:20:15 PM

bama is surprisingly low

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 08, 2024, 03:21:12 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 08, 2024, 03:20:15 PM

bama is surprisingly low

Apparently they don't gouge their fans as badly as other schools...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on January 08, 2024, 03:21:45 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 08, 2024, 02:46:09 PM

This is a topic we discuss around here from time to time.  Interesting data, doesn't include private schools.

(https://i.imgur.com/M3TkHxV.jpg)

So I'm assuming this is reported data, so parking would only be in university controlled lots?  UM likely loses a lot there, aside from the smallish lot next to the stadium, I would think their golf course (which is frequently closed if the grass is soft) is their only source of parking revenue.  Thinking of the campuses I'm familiar with, MSU, Penn State and Indiana (to a slightly lesser degree) control all of the parking lots near the stadium.  Particularly Penn State.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 08, 2024, 03:22:44 PM

Bama needs more parking

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 08, 2024, 03:27:23 PM

Quote from: ELA on January 08, 2024, 03:21:45 PM

So I'm assuming this is reported data, so parking would only be in university controlled lots?  UM likely loses a lot there, aside from the smallish lot next to the stadium, I would think their golf course (which is frequently closed if the grass is soft) is their only source of parking revenue.  Thinking of the campuses I'm familiar with, MSU, Penn State and Indiana (to a slightly lesser degree) control all of the parking lots near the stadium.  Particularly Penn State.

Yeah it would only count revenue going in to the university's coffers.

UT also has very few university-owned lots and garages, it's almost entirely State-owned (state capital and all state offices nearby) and city-owned (city hall and all city offices nearby).    So none of that revenue goes to the university.

But what few lots and garages the university DOES own, are priced at an extreme premium.  I'm sure they still make a decent chunk on it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on January 08, 2024, 03:27:41 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 08, 2024, 03:22:44 PM

Bama needs more parking

Not enough room on campus for all of their fans' homes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on January 08, 2024, 05:51:46 PM

Minnesota's revenue almost certainly does not include parking. 

Parking and Transportation Services, easily the most despised department at the university, gets all of that cash. 

Those who donate enough as part of their season ticket package get the opportunity to pay for season parking. The donation goes to the athletic department, the fee goes to PTS. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 08, 2024, 06:01:12 PM

they must get new Cushmans every season

(https://i.imgur.com/GIWxDic.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 09, 2024, 09:37:09 AM

FACT OF THE DAY:

Finland consumes more caffeine than any other country, with the average adult consuming 400 mg each day. Following Finland are Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, and France.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 10, 2024, 10:24:54 AM

I can't remember where Badger was putting the articles talking about the shifting landscape and state of the game, so I'm just gonna put this here.  Thought it was worth reading. 

https://www.theringer.com/college-football/2023/11/27/23976931/conference-realignment-pac-12-pac-2-oregon-state-washington-state

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 10, 2024, 10:59:37 AM

90% of the parking in Madison is private.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 10, 2024, 11:05:04 AM

I'd guess 90% of parking is private most places and at the few places it's not....... prolly don't move the needle

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 10, 2024, 09:35:34 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/D1x7wTe.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on January 10, 2024, 10:02:55 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 10, 2024, 11:05:04 AM

I'd guess 90% of parking is private most places and at the few places it's not....... prolly don't move the needle

Ohio State is all public parking. (insert favorite needle moving joke) 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 11, 2024, 07:38:05 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 10, 2024, 09:35:34 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/D1x7wTe.jpg)

Good PR, but what are they doing in the shadows?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 11, 2024, 09:43:20 AM

keeping you from getting pork chops for breakfast

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 11, 2024, 09:52:58 AM

Product From

There is a common belief that almost everything is made in China. We will help you to find out that the truth is quite different. Manufacturing industry has never died in many countries, and elsewhere reborn. Just select a country from the list and check.

https://www.productfrom.com/countries (https://www.productfrom.com/countries)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 11, 2024, 01:53:26 PM

There are a lot of companies that are currently in the process of moving their manufacturing out of China.  I mentioned  a couple of years ago just after the worst of the pandemic, that I knew this to be true, but now it's getting traction in the MSM.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/why-production-of-apple-iphones-has-been-moving-from-china-to-india#:~:text=It%20cost%20Apple%20an%20estimated,out%20of%20China%20into%20India.

Of course, I'm not certain that moving to India is much better, but certainly spreading around the sites to various countries, decreases the risk from having everything concentrated in just one-- especially a country that has countless times openly admitted it is fighting an economic war against the USA.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 12, 2024, 09:30:51 AM

Ouch.

Historic College Football Program Hit With Major NCAA Penalties (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/historic-college-football-program-hit-with-major-ncaa-penalties/ar-AA1mQpfA?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=ec95dc91e7724ec1d43120ae02511b26&ei=14)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 12, 2024, 09:33:52 AM

historic penalties for NIL

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 12, 2024, 09:43:51 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 12, 2024, 09:30:51 AM

Ouch.

Historic College Football Program Hit With Major NCAA Penalties (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/historic-college-football-program-hit-with-major-ncaa-penalties/ar-AA1mQpfA?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=ec95dc91e7724ec1d43120ae02511b26&ei=14)

Seems ridiculous for the NCAA to hang on to arcane regulations like this in the age of free-agency.  This strikes me as the NCAA trying to flex, hoping everybody else in the room notices and still cares they're a thing.  I'm waiting for the first school that gets hit with stuff like this who says "No," and then proceeds to do business as normal.  What's the NCAA gonna do about it?  Jack squat.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 12, 2024, 09:47:11 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 12, 2024, 09:30:51 AM

Ouch.

Historic College Football Program Hit With Major NCAA Penalties (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/historic-college-football-program-hit-with-major-ncaa-penalties/ar-AA1mQpfA?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=ec95dc91e7724ec1d43120ae02511b26&ei=14)

Good to see the NCAA is catching up to them for Jameis Winston

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on January 12, 2024, 10:48:38 AM

DEI wasteful?  Shocking


https://nypost.com/2024/01/11/opinion/dei-boondoggle-costs-us-millions-and-harms-students-it-claims-to-help/ (https://nypost.com/2024/01/11/opinion/dei-boondoggle-costs-us-millions-and-harms-students-it-claims-to-help/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on January 13, 2024, 09:59:22 AM

So ESPN owns its own sports book, and now the NFL would own an equity stake in ESPN? What could go wrong?

https://twitter.com/AndrewMarchand/status/1745963938636820966?t=s_CS28Lqp2SAWd6wQuTKvA&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 13, 2024, 10:13:41 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/yC6pYTc.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on January 13, 2024, 11:24:13 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 13, 2024, 10:13:41 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/yC6pYTc.jpg)

https://twitter.com/StepnerWMAR/status/1745898223393276399?t=aYJp6afQ8Gdq_hRz2IuVLw&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 14, 2024, 09:50:12 AM

to celebrate what I hope is the coldest day of the year.........

I'm brewing a poor man's pot of chili this afternoon

substituting ground beef for cubed tri-tip

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 14, 2024, 03:27:41 PM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=WOSqCjMRXWA&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fmobilesms.apple.com&embeds_referring_origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com&source_ve_path=NzY3NTg&feature=emb_yt_watermark

Fun stuff😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 14, 2024, 03:34:45 PM

what about testing the left's theory? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 14, 2024, 03:43:53 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 14, 2024, 03:34:45 PM

what about testing the left's theory?

Yeah- was wondering that.  But was too busy laughing.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 15, 2024, 10:41:18 AM

Good, or bad?

Florida bill to age-restrict social media passes first hurdle (winknews.com) (https://winknews.com/2024/01/15/social-media-children-bill/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2024, 11:08:08 AM

I don't think 7-year olds need to be on tik tok or whatever

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 15, 2024, 11:11:13 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 14, 2024, 09:50:12 AM

to celebrate what I hope is the coldest day of the year.........

I'm brewing a poor man's pot of chili this afternoon

substituting ground beef for cubed tri-tip

Fired the Crock up with 80% Ground Beef added V-8 for flavor, 4 cloves of garlc,2 large onyion,3 green Pepper,1 caribbean red habanero,added couple of sprinkles of Fiery 5 Pepper flakes(McCormick Grill Mates). Had a 3lb can of San Marzano whole tomatoes -took a 3rd of the can ran it thru the processor with tortilla chips - best thickener i ever used got that from Test Kitchen and 3 cans of black beans for filler

(https://media.tenor.com/images/e4ae71099eeeccdaaf1495af637ac4c7/tenor.gif)         

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 15, 2024, 11:13:14 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 15, 2024, 11:08:08 AM

I don't think 7-year olds need to be on tik tok or whatever

Ed Zachery won't be long before they'll be punching a time clock....if they can find one

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2024, 11:28:31 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 15, 2024, 11:11:13 AM

Fired the Crock up with 80% Ground Beef added V-8 for flavor, 4 cloves of garlc,2 large onyion,3 green Pepper,1 caribbean red habanero,added couple of sprinkles of Fiery 5 Flakes Pepper flakes(McCormick Grill Mates). Had a 3lb can of San Marzano whole tomatoes -took a 3rd of the can ran it thru the processor with tortilla chips - best thickener i ever used got that from Test Kitchen and 3 cans of black beans for filler

I'd eat that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2024, 11:29:23 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 15, 2024, 11:13:14 AM

Ed Zachery won't be long before they'll be punching a time clock....if they can find one

I'd allow that.
Pretty sure my mother had me doing household chores at 7

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2024, 11:39:56 AM

well, it's finally Iowa caucus Day!

begining at 7 p.m. Caucus participants will gather inside more than 1,500 schools, churches and community centers to debate their options, in some cases for hours, before casting secret ballots.

at 7pm it's forecast to be 5 below with a 14mph breeze.  Hah!

Trump,  DeSantis,  & Nikki Haley have been in the media WAY too much for months.


I'm very happy it's almost over!

Ramaswamy has been mentioned a bit and some guy that seems to be running on religion.

Good riddance!!! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 15, 2024, 12:37:48 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 15, 2024, 11:08:08 AM

I don't think 7-year olds need to be on tik tok or whatever

No one does.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2024, 02:05:47 PM

agreed, I'm not on tik tok or whatever it's called

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Entropy on January 15, 2024, 02:09:20 PM

Not sure no one does... and that's the problem...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 15, 2024, 02:24:39 PM

Tik Tock should be banned, period.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2024, 02:26:02 PM

and snapchat?
and FB?
and X or twit?
and college football message boards?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 15, 2024, 03:02:06 PM

Tik Tock. It's a Chinese company, with the CCP gathering as much information and distributing as much misinformation as they can.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2024, 03:04:47 PM

just like FB and Twit

well, not "just like"  but, not much different

their motivation and end goals are just a bit different

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 15, 2024, 03:09:30 PM

FB is far worse than Twitter for misinformation (now), which is one of the reasons I quit.

I'm not on Twitter/X.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: TyphonInc on January 15, 2024, 03:14:35 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 15, 2024, 03:04:47 PM

just like FB and Twit

well, not "just like"  but, not much different

their motivation and end goals are just a bit different

I guess for me the biggest difference is BookFace and Twat's are companies collecting and spreading misinformation for profit, which is an evil I'm used to (See CNN, Fox News etc.) Where TikTok is a rival government collecting and spreading misinformation for their benefit (which may or may not be to undermine the government of the country I support.).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2024, 04:09:00 PM

not just the biggest difference, the only difference

I'm sure tik tok makes a few dollars as well

the Chinese, could easily be stealing info from X and FB for their evil use as well as gleaning info from cellphones on Verizon, AT&T. or T-mobile 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on January 15, 2024, 04:13:07 PM

Also, Twitter is being run by a meth-riddled junkie cleaning out his Tesla holdings for his next score. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 15, 2024, 04:19:08 PM

So long as they no longer censor correct information on behalf of the alphabet agencies, I don't care if they are run by these guys.

(https://i.imgur.com/n7ZLeFM.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 15, 2024, 06:28:19 PM

Was just helping my oldest with his AP Chem homework. I haven't taken a Chem class in 28 years. 

He was trying to figure out an energy transfer problem where he'd be putting 100C metal into 20C water and trying to find the final temperature of both.

He kept setting up the problem as Tlost=Tgained and just kept beating his head against it (for a day and a half). 

I looked it over and his math looked right. I said "bring me the book". He brought me a homework packet... Something looked wrong (a positive that "should" be negative if you do the problem Tlost=Tgained). So I reiterated: "bring me the book."

Looked it over, and there it was...

Tlost = -Tgained

I still don't know sh!t about chemistry, but I know if the math looks right and you're getting a completely impossible answer, you're not setting up the problem right. And the book should show you how to set up the problem. And it did... 

And he'd have saved a lot of time if he'd looked closely at it. 

So he learned a valuable lesson. RTFM, son.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2024, 06:32:38 PM

nice work, Pops

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 15, 2024, 09:26:43 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 15, 2024, 06:28:19 PM

Was just helping my oldest with his AP Chem homework. I haven't taken a Chem class in 28 years.

He was trying to figure out an energy transfer problem where he'd be putting 100C metal into 20C water and trying to find the final temperature of both.

He kept setting up the problem as Tlost=Tgained and just kept beating his head against it (for a day and a half).

I looked it over and his math looked right. I said "bring me the book". He brought me a homework packet... Something looked wrong (a positive that "should" be negative if you do the problem Tlost=Tgained). So I reiterated: "bring me the book."

Looked it over, and there it was...

Tlost = -Tgained

I still don't know sh!t about chemistry, but I know if the math looks right and you're getting a completely impossible answer, you're not setting up the problem right. And the book should show you how to set up the problem. And it did...

And he'd have saved a lot of time if he'd looked closely at it.

So he learned a valuable lesson. RTFM, son.

my son would have failed that class if he looked to me for help

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 16, 2024, 12:57:23 AM

All social media is poison.
it's demonstrable.
This isn't an opinion.
.
Limits are prudent.
Unfettered free speech isn't a good idea (yelling "fire" in a crowded space).
Unfettered free speech, guided by a money-making scheme and influenced by every dishonest interlocutor on the planet?
Nope.
.
If it all went away tomorrow, the world would be a better place.  And people would have their lives back.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 16, 2024, 08:56:10 AM

many folks said the same about the Television back in the day

obviously a different animal.  Not interactive, but media in your face.

influenced by money grubbers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2024, 10:02:36 AM

I think social media is a huge plus in society. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 16, 2024, 11:18:57 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 16, 2024, 10:02:36 AM

I think social media is a huge plus in society.

You don't have a teenage daughter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 16, 2024, 11:19:56 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 16, 2024, 08:56:10 AM

many folks said the same about the Television back in the day

obviously a different animal.  Not interactive, but media in your face.

influenced by money grubbers

The TV was intake only.  Entertainment and ads.  The biggest sins were obesity and being influenced to buy a specific cereal.
Not even close.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 16, 2024, 11:46:17 AM

My teenage daughter doesn't give a rat's ass about social media.  I raised her right.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 16, 2024, 12:14:52 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 16, 2024, 12:57:23 AM

All social media is poison.
it's demonstrable.
This isn't an opinion.
.
Limits are prudent.
Unfettered free speech isn't a good idea (yelling "fire" in a crowded space).
Unfettered free speech, guided by a money-making scheme and influenced by every dishonest interlocutor on the planet?
Nope.
.
If it all went away tomorrow, the world would be a better place.  And people would have their lives back.

Couldn’t agree more.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 16, 2024, 12:15:40 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 16, 2024, 10:02:36 AM

I think social media is a huge plus in society.

 That blows my mind coming from you- clearly a very balanced, no nonsense dude.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on January 16, 2024, 12:25:03 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on January 16, 2024, 12:15:40 PM

That blows my mind coming from you- clearly a very balanced, no nonsense dude. 

He funds his European trips with his TikTok videos

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 16, 2024, 12:25:30 PM

Honest Buckeye and Afroman agreeing????

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 16, 2024, 01:15:47 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 16, 2024, 11:46:17 AM

My teenage daughter doesn't give a rat's ass about social media.  I raised her right.

So she's an Aggie?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 16, 2024, 01:38:57 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 16, 2024, 01:15:47 PM

So she's an Aggie?

Not likely, she's been to the campus in College Station and was not overly impressed with the Eastern Bloc Soviet-era architecture.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 16, 2024, 01:50:04 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 16, 2024, 01:38:57 PM

Not likely, she's been to the campus in College Station and was not overly impressed with the Eastern Bloc Soviet-era architecture.

Yeah, it was funny... My wife visited Purdue with me in 2019 for the TCU game and she was impressed by how the campus architecture/design makes it look like a "real" college. Big brick buildings around the main quad, etc...

I visited her alma mater (UCSB) and was impressed because the ocean was right.effing.there! The architecture was decidedly more modern and not evoking that traditional "college" feal. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 16, 2024, 04:34:14 PM

Texas A&M's campus architecture examples:

(https://i.imgur.com/gIO1FRk.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/nhbufEw.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/BO8sNDa.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 16, 2024, 04:40:50 PM

Is that a prison?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 16, 2024, 04:41:24 PM

University of Texas:

(https://i.imgur.com/9a5Cn5Q.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/FHOI6lk.png)


(https://i.imgur.com/VhlrnCB.png)

And when UT does modern architecture, it's interesting and unique rather than brutalist and depressing.


(https://i.imgur.com/7rtQBFL.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 16, 2024, 04:42:54 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 16, 2024, 04:40:50 PM

Is that a prison?

You'd think?

But actually, people PAY to go there...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 16, 2024, 04:48:58 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 16, 2024, 04:34:14 PM

Texas A&M's campus architecture examples:

(https://i.imgur.com/gIO1FRk.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/nhbufEw.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/BO8sNDa.jpg)

Ahh, the brutalist school played heavily there huh?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brutalist_architecture

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 16, 2024, 04:49:57 PM

(https://sweetwaterinn.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/AdobeStock_UF-drone.jpg)
UF

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 16, 2024, 04:57:00 PM

Madison is like Austin. A mix of old and new, but there are some very bad 1960's buildings too. Some of them are slated for demo.

(https://i.imgur.com/kFqO1ac.png)

How do you build THAT next to that beautiful worm and lake?

(https://i.imgur.com/pOlcPnM.jpg)

This the "Humanities Building" so maybe just knock it down and leave it as open space?

(https://i.imgur.com/1DcDXdb.jpg)

New School of Business in the forefront. Some 1960's crap mixed in and around.

(https://i.imgur.com/A4p19Xf.jpg)

Bascom Hill, with Bascom Hall centered. This is where the C suites are.

(https://i.imgur.com/IY2Nkzv.png)

Engineering Hall.

(https://i.imgur.com/xtvLHBG.jpg)

Agriculture Hall.

(https://i.imgur.com/83x1Tb9.png)

My home building. Biological Systems Engineering. 

Ugly 1960's Horticulture Building in the background.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 16, 2024, 05:01:09 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 16, 2024, 04:48:58 PM

Ahh, the brutalist school played heavily there huh?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brutalist_architecture

Oh yeah, I'm quite familiar with the brutalist movement in modern architecture.  My best friend growing up is an architect who loves modern styles (as do I) but I've always taken great fun in beating him up over the existence of brutalism (which he doesn't actually favor, either).

Honestly I don't mind the idea of the movement, and there are a handful of really aesthetically pleasing examples of the style.  But for the most part, it's just really, really ugly and depressing.

From your linked article, here's one I like:

(https://i.imgur.com/RigNYMp.jpg)

And here's a legendary and iconic brutalist cathedral in Brazil that I think is quite striking:

Outside:

(https://i.imgur.com/NxDrEe7.jpg)

Inside:

(https://i.imgur.com/UavAIYF.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 16, 2024, 08:00:14 PM

most architects are not morons, but try WAY TOO hard

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 16, 2024, 08:39:44 PM

My dad was an architect. He was a big fan of Frank Lloyd Wright, but an even bigger fan of Mies van der Rohe:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_Mies_van_der_Rohe

He ended up in Chicago and taught at the Illinois Institute of Technology, where my dad studied architecture. I've never actually asked if he studied under him directly or not, but possibly so given the timeline of that Wiki article. 

I actually don't really know much about architecture, though. I think I learned more when I took my wife to Chicago and we did one of the Chicago River boat architecture tours than I probably learned from him. Mostly because I guess I wasn't interested and didn't ask. 

But the one thing I did pick up from him was the idea that architectural "style" should be more about adapting to a setting than trying to build something for its own stylistic sake. I think that might be more of a Wright influence as I don't know how much van der Rohe did residential work. Which is why my ex never understood that when we'd be walking around Newport Beach, CA I would chafe so much at certain designs--particularly for houses that were on the water:

• Houses built as A-frames with a lot of roof slope. Uhh, it's not gonna snow. You don't need a design that will minimize snow load. 
• One particular house would have been a PERFECT house in New Orleans. Big wraparound (covered) porch with beautiful wrought iron railings. Which is important when you live in the humid South pre-AC and you want to avoid getting too much sunlight into the house. Stupid when you live in arid Newport Beach, where it barely ever gets hot enough for AC, and you want to bring in all the light you can. Great house; stupid to build it in that location. 
• Houses that had small segmented windows, and few of them. You live in a place that is freaking gorgeous. You should have floor-to-ceiling windows anywhere you can. 

I really hate beautiful houses built in the wrong location for their design style. You build the house to fit a place, not try to shoehorn a "style" from somewhere else where it's not appropriate.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 16, 2024, 09:04:01 PM

yup, do the right thing, not the "look at what I did " thing

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 17, 2024, 07:59:31 AM

Not a big fan of Mies' work.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 17, 2024, 10:36:13 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 17, 2024, 07:59:31 AM

Not a big fan of Mies' work.

I'm cool with his work.  Of course I'm on record as wanting my next house to be "a glass box in the middle of a huge green space" so it tracks...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 17, 2024, 10:46:21 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 16, 2024, 04:41:24 PM

University of Texas:

(https://i.imgur.com/9a5Cn5Q.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/FHOI6lk.png)

This is some kind of sleight of hand.  The A&M pics are ground level view of hum-drum or ugly buildings.  Not to offend, but this is just mostly hum-drum or ugly buildings, dressed up under the guise of an aerial shot which makes it all seem more aesthetically pleasing.  

I'm sure UT has some gorgeous buildings, but I don't think these are the photos that prove it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 17, 2024, 10:53:50 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 17, 2024, 10:46:21 AM

This is some kind of sleight of hand.  The A&M pics are ground level view of hum-drum or ugly buildings.  Not to offend, but this is just mostly hum-drum or ugly buildings, dressed up under the guise of an aerial shot which makes it all seem more aesthetically pleasing. 

I'm sure UT has some gorgeous buildings, but I don't think these are the photos that prove it. 

Thanks for your input

Its always nice to hear from a LSU fan on how the UT campus looks

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 17, 2024, 10:56:57 AM

IIT Campus:

(https://i.imgur.com/nYFHbYW.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 17, 2024, 12:29:29 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 17, 2024, 10:56:57 AM

IIT Campus:

(https://i.imgur.com/nYFHbYW.jpg)

Yeah.  Personally, I like that one, but I'm not someone to insist that modern architecture should be for everyone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 17, 2024, 12:59:23 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 16, 2024, 05:01:09 PM

And here's a legendary and iconic brutalist cathedral in Brazil that I think is quite striking:

Outside:

(https://i.imgur.com/NxDrEe7.jpg)

JESUS be like "I multiply the loaves and the fishes then turn water into wine and feed the masses then you give me this shit"???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 17, 2024, 01:37:13 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/2zrANEb.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 17, 2024, 01:58:47 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/1Cm6iDz.png)

Look at the top of that - designed after a mower blade balancer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 17, 2024, 02:13:36 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on January 17, 2024, 10:53:50 AM

Thanks for your input

Its always nice to hear from a LSU fan on how the UT campus looks

I was always told that nearly 2/3 of UT's....I guess not "campus", but classrooms?  Square footage inside buildings?....was underground.  

I just assumed it's because the buildings are ugly and they had to be buried where they couldn't be seen.  



Actually, due to space restrictions within the downtown area, but why let reality get in the way of a good jab?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 17, 2024, 02:15:14 PM

perhaps it's that the staff and student body are mostly ugly?

;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 17, 2024, 02:17:34 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 17, 2024, 02:15:14 PM

perhaps it's that the staff and student body are mostly ugly?

;)

I can't comment on staff, and technically I can't comment on the vast majority of the student body.  I can only tell you that the wimminz who show up to game days there are most definitely not ugly.

Longhorn wimminz are a gift from God.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 17, 2024, 02:19:24 PM

Then they open their mouths?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 17, 2024, 02:40:36 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 17, 2024, 02:17:34 PM

I can only tell you that the wimminz who show up to game days there are most definitely not ugly.

they might not be students

I've heard ya gotta be pretty smart to get through the admission requirements

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 17, 2024, 02:45:37 PM

Pretty girls can be smart too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 17, 2024, 02:46:18 PM

absolutely, I know a few

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 17, 2024, 02:48:47 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 17, 2024, 02:45:37 PM

Pretty girls can be smart too.

(https://i.imgur.com/YUVMaFt.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 17, 2024, 02:54:22 PM

I lack an articulate definition of what constitutes brutalist architecture, but I know it when I see it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on January 17, 2024, 05:53:42 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 17, 2024, 02:13:36 PM

I was always told that nearly 2/3 of UT's....I guess not "campus", but classrooms?  Square footage inside buildings?....was underground. 

I just assumed it's because the buildings are ugly and they had to be buried where they couldn't be seen. 



Actually, due to space restrictions within the downtown area, but why let reality get in the way of a good jab?

Thats interesting

I went there for 4 years and never had an underground class

In all the years you spent there did you?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 17, 2024, 07:00:49 PM

That doesn't sound right.  A handful of buildings on campus have some underground sections, but the limestone is just a few inches below the soil across pretty much the entire city, so basements aren't very common.  You basically have to use dynamite to blast anything more than a small hole, and dynamite blasting is pretty heavily regulated.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on January 17, 2024, 07:33:02 PM

Some of those buildings you posted have either been completely remodeled or torn down, I think. The problem with A&M’s architecture is that it’s never been consistent. We grew leaps in every decade after the 50’s and the campus is massive, over 5,000 acres. So you can be in West Campus, which was almost all built after the 80’s and it looks completely different than main campus, much of which was built in every era from the 1800’s to present. 

Aggies we’re mostly a practical people, I think we valued simplicity over style. It never even occurred to me the buildings were ugly.  

They have built so much since I’ve been gone I hardly recognize campus. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on January 17, 2024, 07:36:27 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/3mHVAK7.jpg)

This is the Zachary building, one of the major engineering buildings that they completely remodeled. I literally did not recognize it when I was there last. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on January 17, 2024, 07:39:33 PM

Here is another modern building. 

(https://i.imgur.com/zvkkbrt.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 17, 2024, 10:58:03 PM

Ed Zachery!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 17, 2024, 11:37:25 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 17, 2024, 02:54:22 PM

I lack an articulate definition of what constitutes brutalist architecture, but I know it when I see it. 

Like pornography?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on January 18, 2024, 10:51:03 AM

https://twitter.com/JAHeale/status/1747919636702671224?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 18, 2024, 11:08:28 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 17, 2024, 07:00:49 PM

That doesn't sound right. 

Never did to me either.  In general, if you lack horizontal space to grow into, you build up....higher buildings with more stories, instead of digging down.  And that's without the limestone, which, trust me...I know from my days as a landscaper there how miserable that stuff is to deal with.  

I just Google'd it and all I could find was info about an extensive tunnel network below campus used for utilities.  

I obviously never spent much time there other than DKR on game days.  That was told to me by some undergrad chicas and a law student and I assumed they knew what they were talking about.  From this I conclude that Longhorn wimminz are beautiful, but possibly susceptible to urban legends about campus.  tbf, it's possible they said 1/3, not 2/3...I could easily be misremembering that, but I still can't find any info on anything like that.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 18, 2024, 11:44:01 AM

UNL's campus has underground tunnels from building to building to escape the sub-zero temps

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 18, 2024, 11:50:05 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 18, 2024, 11:44:01 AM

UNL's campus has underground tunnels from building to building to escape the sub-zero temps

I am always intrigued by downtown Minneapolis with all the elevated footbridges between buildings... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 18, 2024, 11:53:04 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 18, 2024, 11:50:05 AM

I am always intrigued by downtown Minneapolis with all the elevated footbridges between buildings...

Ever been in Chicago's underground?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 18, 2024, 12:04:43 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 18, 2024, 11:50:05 AM

I am always intrigued by downtown Minneapolis with all the elevated footbridges between buildings...

we call em skywalks here in Iowa
once a winter we have mini-golf tournaments from building to building

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 18, 2024, 12:43:40 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 18, 2024, 11:53:04 AM

Ever been in Chicago's underground?

Don't think I have... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 18, 2024, 01:52:40 PM

PedwayEdit12112012.cdr (chicago.gov) (https://www.chicago.gov/content/dam/city/depts/cdot/pedestrian/Pedway/PedwayMap2013.pdf)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 18, 2024, 06:53:30 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 18, 2024, 11:53:04 AM

Ever been in Chicago's underground?

I mean, I know some folks who are connected, if that's what you're asking?

You want a toe?  I can get you a toe, believe me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 18, 2024, 08:15:41 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 18, 2024, 06:53:30 PM

I mean, I know some folks who are connected, if that's what you're asking?

You want a toe?  I can get you a toe, believe me

Gonna poke around the stock yards where you get your brisket?Butchers-band saw's

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 18, 2024, 09:36:45 PM

By 3:00, with nail polish.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 20, 2024, 12:41:06 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/NlPuZKe.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 20, 2024, 12:42:42 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/XPW6qdU.png)


My only bomb for the week …..

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 20, 2024, 12:57:43 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 20, 2024, 12:41:06 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/NlPuZKe.jpg)

looks horrible

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 20, 2024, 01:06:52 PM

Didn't they leave Disney World?  Where did they go?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 20, 2024, 01:15:26 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 20, 2024, 12:42:42 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/XPW6qdU.png)


My only bomb for the week …..

What's this a Niekro Bros. look a like contest

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 20, 2024, 03:04:49 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/lC6NfJd.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 20, 2024, 03:16:56 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 20, 2024, 01:06:52 PM

Didn't they leave Disney World?  Where did they go?

Northport.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 20, 2024, 05:10:47 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/ItNu97y.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 20, 2024, 06:02:36 PM

Took the family to Five Guys for lunch before going to the bookstore. Five burgers. Two large fries. We only had water to drink. 

How did this cost me $85.69?!?!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 20, 2024, 06:03:50 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 20, 2024, 06:02:36 PM

Took the family to Five Guys for lunch before going to the bookstore. Five burgers. Two large fries. We only had water to drink.

How did this cost me $85.69?!?

Bidenflation. Thanks a lot to everyone who voted for that rotting corpse.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 20, 2024, 06:13:47 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 20, 2024, 06:02:36 PM

Took the family to Five Guys for lunch before going to the bookstore. Five burgers. Two large fries. We only had water to drink.

How did this cost me $85.69?!?!

What's a book store?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 20, 2024, 06:14:58 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 20, 2024, 06:03:50 PM

Bidenflation. Thanks a lot to everyone who voted for that rotting corpse.

Just needs some bronzer and more fast food, I guess.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 20, 2024, 06:43:28 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 20, 2024, 06:14:58 PM

Just needs some bronzer and more fast food, I guess.

And a brain.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 20, 2024, 06:52:48 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 20, 2024, 06:13:47 PM

What's a book store?

Bookstore you say? isn't that what Amazon is for? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 20, 2024, 07:11:03 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 20, 2024, 06:02:36 PM

Took the family to Five Guys for lunch before going to the bookstore. Five burgers. Two large fries. We only had water to drink.

How did this cost me $85.69?!?!

you live and eat in Cali

Five Guys doesn't cost that much here

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 20, 2024, 07:13:14 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 20, 2024, 06:03:50 PM

Bidenflation. Thanks a lot to everyone who voted for that rotting corpse.

S&P 500 closes at record high for first time in two years

It took a while, but it's built back better

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 20, 2024, 07:18:34 PM

Neighbor Roger Pringle hadn't eaten at Five Guys in about a year and when he got there and saw the prices this afternoon he and the family enjoyed a filling meal of peanuts and went home.

Roger is our Effing Problem Solver of the Week.


(https://i.imgur.com/yhLTbxJ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 20, 2024, 08:44:47 PM

If Five Guys is too expensive, don't eat there.  
There's only a hundred other options.  Isn't that the beauty of the free market?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 20, 2024, 11:54:33 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 20, 2024, 08:44:47 PM

If Five Guys is too expensive, don't eat there. 
There's only a hundred other options.  Isn't that the beauty of the free market?

Yep. Lesson learned. Should have gone to In & Out.

I was just shocked. Decent burger & fries, but leaving value for money. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 21, 2024, 06:58:00 AM

How much is a burger there?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 21, 2024, 07:00:56 AM

Twice what it was 4 years ago.

That is what inflation and ridiculous minimum wage rates will do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 21, 2024, 07:14:48 AM

We stopped at McDs for breakfast on the drive down and it was $16, near a small town in Georgia. I was shocked.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 21, 2024, 08:25:12 AM

Sounds like you conveniently ordered meals, when you can get 2 items and a drink for under $5.00.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 21, 2024, 08:26:36 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 21, 2024, 08:25:12 AM

Sounds like you conveniently ordered meals, when you can get 2 items and a drink for under $5.00.

Where?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 21, 2024, 09:26:59 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 21, 2024, 07:00:56 AM

Twice what it was 4 years ago.

That is what inflation and ridiculous minimum wage rates will do.

And no immigration

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2024, 09:35:15 AM

Parents wouldn't take my brother and I to McDonalds back in the late 60s and 70s because it was too expensive

same as today

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 21, 2024, 09:37:41 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 21, 2024, 09:26:59 AM

And no immigration

The border is secure...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2024, 09:46:42 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/WO4Z0sB.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 21, 2024, 09:52:20 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 21, 2024, 09:37:41 AM

The border is secure...

Too bad...government regulation making labor more expensive and less efficient

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2024, 09:55:14 AM

Five Guys prices here in Sewer Falls SD

(https://i.imgur.com/Ay7Hkto.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/6Yb35zU.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/zHcQwke.png)

So, about $19/person plus tax and tip = $100

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2024, 09:56:37 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/87yDsLK.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 21, 2024, 10:06:57 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 21, 2024, 09:52:20 AM

Too bad...government regulation making labor more expensive and less efficient

Higher minimum wages apply to everyone, when it comes to fast food employees. Notice which state is the highest.

I don't believe in minimum wage. The market should dictate this.


Minimum Wage Rates by State 2024 (minimum-wage.org) (https://www.minimum-wage.org/wage-by-state)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2024, 10:21:11 AM

Five Guys prices in Orange, CA

(https://i.imgur.com/uoNpIWs.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/lk9gez9.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/OJraldr.png)

So, $26/person plus tax and tip
I'm sure the tax is more

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2024, 10:24:11 AM

$7/person plus more tip plus more tax

$30/$35 more for a family of 4

but, It's not below zero

and of course their minimum wage workers aren't struggling and they don't have a homeless issue

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 21, 2024, 10:31:42 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 21, 2024, 06:58:00 AM

How much is a burger there?

At In n Out, I think a Double Double is $5.55, and a Cheeseburger is $3.85. That's up quite a bit as the Double Double was <$4 before COVID. 

The Bacon Cheeseburger at Five Guys, which to be fair is substantially larger than the Double Double and had bacon, was $14 tho... Just not even close. Could have two Double Doubles AND an order of fries for that at In n Out. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 21, 2024, 10:37:20 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 21, 2024, 10:21:11 AM

Five Guys prices in Orange, CA

(https://i.imgur.com/uoNpIWs.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/lk9gez9.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/OJraldr.png)

So, $26/person plus tax and tip
I'm sure the tax is more

Yep. 5 people. Two bacon cheeseburgers. Two little cheeseburgers. One little bacon cheeseburger. Two large fries (plenty for us, split 5 ways). Water. $85. 

I don't know if tipping for counter service is ever really necessary, so I didn't. They're probably making $18/hr. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2024, 10:40:32 AM

Dude, $20/hr isn't going to be enough for a family of 4 to live on comfortably

tip em a twenty

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 21, 2024, 10:42:41 AM

The fast food places around here are paying more than minimum wage, just so they can find people to work. Minimum wage is $13 here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2024, 10:50:33 AM

$7.25 here in Iowa

Nebraska's minimum wage increased to $12 an hour, making it the 18th highest state minimum wage in the country and one of 25 states increasing its minimum wage this year. Jan 2, 2024

$11.20 in South Dakota

I'm guessing fast food workers in Iowa get paid similar to Nebraska.
Or they would work across the river

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 21, 2024, 12:33:13 PM

$7.25 today????

That's criminal.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 21, 2024, 12:34:55 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 21, 2024, 10:21:11 AM

Five Guys prices in Orange, CA

(https://i.imgur.com/uoNpIWs.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/lk9gez9.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/OJraldr.png)

So, $26/person plus tax and tip
I'm sure the tax is more

If anyone buys a 20 oz Coke for 4 dollars deserves to be punched in the face.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 21, 2024, 12:38:43 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 21, 2024, 12:34:55 PM

If anyone buys a 20 oz Coke for 4 dollars deserves to be punched in the face. 

if Biden gets another 4 years, that $4 20oz coke is going to be more like $10 before you know it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 21, 2024, 12:57:07 PM

I can get a great burger in our local bar for $13.99, including a side. Not going to 5 guys or whatever. 

Shit, I was in a pinch on our last travel and paid $14.50 for double whopper combo. That's sick.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 21, 2024, 01:16:08 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 21, 2024, 12:38:43 PM

if Biden gets another 4 years, that $4 20oz coke is going to be more like $10 before you know it.

Don't even.......now that's someone you can introduce to OJ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 21, 2024, 01:18:31 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 21, 2024, 12:38:43 PM

if Biden gets another 4 years, that $4 20oz coke is going to be more like $10 before you know it.

Inflation has already drastically fallen from what it once was.  Your low-hanging fruit has spoiled.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 21, 2024, 01:19:28 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 21, 2024, 12:57:07 PM

I can get a great burger in our local bar for $13.99, including a side. Not going to 5 guys or whatever.

Shit, I was in a pinch on our last travel and paid $14.50 for double whopper combo. That's sick.

I try to stay away from fast food like the plague, but last time I had a late flight back in and all that was open was McDonald's and I was starving so I was forced to go, and I noticed this as well. Their prices are OUTRAGEOUS now for what the fk they are serving. It's all highly processed low quality cheap GARBAGE that they are buying and serving and they have INSANE economies of scale on. They have to be the single largest purchaser of beef, potatoes, and Coca Cola on planet earth- if not #1 then they are VERY near the very top 3 in all those categories. Which means: they get the best deals. Not only do they get the best deals but they are getting the cheapest low quality beef if you can even call it beef, the cheapest potatoes & cheapest produce- and in terms of the soda it costs them literally pennies to fill up a paper cup of soda. HOW the F do they charge what they charge and get away with it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 21, 2024, 01:20:54 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 21, 2024, 01:18:31 PM

Inflation has already drastically fallen from what it once was.  Your low-hanging fruit has spoiled.

yeah, no it hasn't. inflation is still a massive problem for the every day person. 

just 'cause Premier Biden's corrupt phony gov't rigs #'s on the economy, doesn't mean it's true pal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 21, 2024, 01:28:49 PM

I will say, Five Guys is usually pretty high quality.....from my experience. it's a pretty high price for fast food- but it's not that much more than like Burger King or McDonald's- but it's FAR better.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2024, 01:49:34 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 21, 2024, 12:33:13 PM

$7.25 today????

That's criminal. 

not many folks working for $7.25 - including kids flippin burgers

the state of Iowa seems to be doing alright

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 21, 2024, 02:03:23 PM

Last time I has Five Guys it was gross

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 21, 2024, 02:13:18 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 21, 2024, 02:03:23 PM

Last time I has Five Guys it was gross

well guess like every big chain, it all depends on who is running said location. last couple times I had Five Guys, it was pretty damn good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 21, 2024, 02:17:40 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 21, 2024, 01:49:34 PM

not many folks working for $7.25 - including kids flippin burgers

the state of Iowa seems to be doing alright

Even the individuals making $7.25?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 21, 2024, 02:18:01 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 21, 2024, 01:20:54 PM

yeah, no it hasn't. inflation is still a massive problem for the every day person.

just 'cause Premier Biden's corrupt phony gov't rigs #'s on the economy, doesn't mean it's true pal.

If you're going to claim rigged numbers, then provide evidence, please.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2024, 02:37:31 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 21, 2024, 02:17:40 PM

Even the individuals making $7.25?

hard to find them to ask or judge

I don't know how many of them there are, but it's not many

very easy to find a job paying $10/hour or more

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 21, 2024, 02:49:02 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 21, 2024, 02:37:31 PM

hard to find them to ask or judge

I don't know how many of them there are, but it's not many

very easy to find a job paying $10/hour or more

Lots $10, $12, $15/hr jobs sitting unfulfilled in our part of the country right now.  Apparently being an influencer pays more these days.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Entropy on January 21, 2024, 02:53:01 PM

Being an influencer sounds great but most people have no idea the time and effort it takes to make a living out of it and then.... it's even tougher to remain fresh and keep up with trends or set them.

My son is 13 and makes $20/hr as a ref for little kids' soccer games— which ends up being one game per hour with breaks and half time.   On really hot or cold days, they push it to $35.    

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 21, 2024, 03:10:52 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 21, 2024, 02:49:02 PM

Lots $10, $12, $15/hr jobs sitting unfulfilled in our part of the country right now.  Apparently being an influencer pays more these days.

And so does being a whore on camera on OnlyFans. if you're an even moderately sexy woman- never been a better time to be alive than now and earn easy money.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 21, 2024, 03:15:04 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 21, 2024, 12:57:07 PM

I can get a great burger in our local bar for $13.99, including a side. Not going to 5 guys or whatever.

Shit, I was in a pinch on our last travel and paid $14.50 for double whopper combo. That's sick.

Yeah, we were originally talking about going to Stadium Brewing Co (https://stadiumbrewco.com/), which is very close to the bookstore. Great food. But it was cold and rainy, so we weren't going to sit in their outdoor seating, and we though it would not only take a bunch more time, but it would end up being WAY more expensive, which is why we ended up at Five Guys. 

Hell, a burger there is only $20, comes with fries, and is pretty damn good. So that covers the oldest and I. My wife LOVES their Greek tacos at $21. The two younger ones would probably be kids' menu at $12 each and includes drinks. Total of $85 and more worth it. 

(Granted, the bill might jump a bit since, ya know, it's a brewery and all. But I'd stomach the cost of lunch a lot more easily with a brew or three in my belly, so it's worth it.)

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 21, 2024, 01:28:49 PM

I will say, Five Guys is usually pretty high quality.....from my experience. it's a pretty high price for fast food- but it's not that much more than like Burger King or McDonald's- but it's FAR better.

Read upthread... It's *WAY* more expensive than McD's, BK, or our local favorite, In n Out. But it's also a different style of fast casual, larger, higher end burger. 

That's what surprised me. It's obviously way better than McD's and BK, and I think you can make a claim that it's "better" than In n Out (but I always argue they're a different category so shouldn't be compared directly). 

But I was FLOORED by the fact that it cost so damn much. Even with costly fast food around here given SoCal, feeding the family at McD's would probably end up around $40-45. I did it not too long ago on a morning my son and I played golf and my wife wanted me to pick up food instead of making anything... I think it was almost exactly $45--and it's arguable I bought too much food. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 22, 2024, 08:16:11 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 21, 2024, 02:18:01 PM

If you're going to claim rigged numbers, then provide evidence, please.

Go out to dinner or to a grocery store for your answer. It's not that hard to figure out that things today are far more expensive than things were 4 years ago. Prices have not - and will not - go down, and wages have not kept up (unless you work for the government).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 22, 2024, 10:05:17 AM

https://www.investopedia.com/inflation-rate-by-year-7253832

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 22, 2024, 10:18:26 AM

Vaguely related:

I wish Thomas Sowell's "Basic Economics" was required reading for high school or at least undergrad studies.  Although it's long, it's extremely readable and understandable.  It addresses multiple topics in depth, but seriously, it reads at like a 9th grade level, or less.  I've lent mine to friends over the years who argued for higher minimum wages, UBI, socialist economic principles, or just complained about the prohibitive cost of luxury items as relates to low-income individuals.  It's really a brilliant primer on how basic supply and demand and the allocation of resources affects things downstream on an everyday level, and, indirectly it also shines a light on how political types sometimes go wrong in their thinking when implementing policy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on January 22, 2024, 10:38:15 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on September 27, 2023, 08:16:17 AM

Pirates on San Francisco Bay?  Gov. Face needs to draw his cutlass and get out there!
https://www.foxnews.com/us/seabound-bandits-terrorize-san-francisco-bay-amid-surge-homeless-camps (https://www.foxnews.com/us/seabound-bandits-terrorize-san-francisco-bay-amid-surge-homeless-camps)

Pirates, and now: "Yacht owners are abandoning vessels in San Francisco's Bay Area when they get too old and costly to repair - and hide their identify by scratching off registration numbers"

Daily Maily—
"Many of the abandoned boats are being commandeered as makeshift shelter in communities known as 'anchor-outs,' while others, set adrift and often filled with garbage, eventually wreck or sink. With their registration numbers scratched off to conceal the owner's identity, it is often impossible to hold irresponsible boat owners accountable..."

"Earlier this year, boat owners in the Oakland Estuary had to contend with a 'pirate' crime wave blamed on the residents of illegal anchor-outs, who launched sorties into marinas to strip vessels for parts. In addition to the crime issue, the abandoned boats pose navigational and environmental hazards, cluttering waterways and spilling fuel and trash into the bay."


https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1749147695007125946

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 22, 2024, 11:07:09 AM

Wow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 22, 2024, 11:28:24 AM

Just heard that CA fast food worker minimum wages are going up to $20/hr starting in April. So prices will just keep rising :96:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 22, 2024, 11:48:11 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 22, 2024, 11:28:24 AM

Just heard that CA fast food worker minimum wages are going up to $20/hr starting in April. So prices will just keep rising :96:

It goes into effect 4/1/2024, so you can always hope it's an April Fool's joke.....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 22, 2024, 12:20:01 PM

Guess I gotta get to Cali in the next few months to get some In n Out that doesn't cost $18 per burger.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 22, 2024, 12:48:24 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 22, 2024, 12:20:01 PM

Guess I gotta get to Cali in the next few months to get some In n Out that doesn't cost $18 per burger.

You don't have to.


(https://i.imgur.com/NrjihvL.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 22, 2024, 12:55:37 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 22, 2024, 12:48:24 PM

You don't have to.


(https://i.imgur.com/NrjihvL.png)

...yeah... I was joking...

We have InO here.  I don't ever go.  It's better than McDonald's but not as good as Whataburger or a couple other more local hamburger chains, so I really have no reason to visit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on January 22, 2024, 01:13:02 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 22, 2024, 12:20:01 PM

Guess I gotta get to Cali in the next few months to get some In n Out that doesn't cost $18 per burger.

Speaking of In-N-Out Burger…

…and the Bay Area…

…and Crime…

...for the first time ever In-N-Out is closing a location:

"Despite taking repeated steps to create safer conditions, our Customers and Associates are regularly victimized by car break-ins, property damage, theft, and armed robberies."

https://twitter.com/BahlestKimmie/status/1749250146687455476

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 22, 2024, 01:17:19 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 22, 2024, 12:55:37 PM

...yeah... I was joking...

We have InO here.  I don't ever go.  It's better than McDonald's but not as good as Whataburger or a couple other more local hamburger chains, so I really have no reason to visit.

Whataburger is MEH to me. Never had it in Texas, but the few times I've had it in FL & GA- thought it was better than like a McD's but nothing that great. To me I much prefer In-N-Out over Whataburger- even though I think In-N-Out's fries SUCK royally. There was this place I went to in Austin called P Terry's Burger Stand that had a really cool looking building that I thought was pretty damn good for a fast food burger joint. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 22, 2024, 01:24:14 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 22, 2024, 01:17:19 PM

Whataburger is MEH to me. Never had it in Texas, but the few times I've had it in FL & GA- thought it was better than like a McD's but nothing that great. To me I much prefer In-N-Out over Whataburger- even though I think In-N-Out's fries SUCK royally. There was this place I went to in Austin called P Terry's Burger Stand that had a really cool looking building that I thought was pretty damn good for a fast food burger joint.

Can't speak for Whataburgers outside of the CenTex area, but it's way better than InO.  Also, it's different because the menu is MUCH larger than InO.  Not only can I customize any of their sandwiches and get them on a bun, or Texas toast, but the amount of options I can add is a lot larger than InO.  I can add onions or grilled onions, pickled jalapenos or grilled jalepenos, bacon, all of the normal toppings like lettuce-tomato-pickles, all kinds of different types of sauces including a more-than-decent BBQ sauce.  And beyond the burger they have all kinds of chicken sandwiches and chicken biscuits, a fish sandwich, and they're open 24 hours and they serve breakfast from 11  PM to 11 AM.  It's really not a fair comparison for InO, they can't come anywhere close to that kind of menu.

P Terry's is one of the other local chains I was referring to.  It's probably a better comparison to InO due to it being basically just a hamburger stand, and I consider it to be much better than InO.  There's another local chain called Dan's that's also much better.  Basically, if I had to choose between McDonald's and InO I'd go with InO.  But I don't have to make that choice.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 22, 2024, 01:47:56 PM

I think I've been to Whataburger once or twice while traveling, and I can't say I recall it very well. Certainly not enough to offer an opinion on the burger quality. 

However, I disagree with the idea that having a more expansive menu necessarily makes one place better than another. 

I.e., just like Whataburger, McDonalds has a much more expansive menu than In n Out, but I don't think anyone here (incl utee who made the expansive menu point) is going to claim that a McDonalds burger is better than an In n Out burger. 

Quality and variety are orthogonal attributes when evaluating a restaurant. I don't want to eat at a place that has an expansive menu if all they serve is various flavors of sh!t. And I'm not going to avoid eating at a place if they only have serve one item I like but that one thing makes the visit worthwhile for me because it's so good. 

Maybe that makes Whataburger a better place for a family of five trying to successfully accommodate disparate tastes, but it's a different discussion than whether a core menu item from one place is better than a similar core menu item from another. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 22, 2024, 01:57:13 PM

Is the burger griddled to order?

Is the bun toasted?

They get those two things right, everything else is just minor details. You can screw it up - I noted the last time at Five Guys was miserable. That was because I ordered whatever their "all the way burger" was, but it had way too much crap on it and the bun disintegrated. But fresh burger with a fresh toasted bun is pretty can't miss.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2024, 02:12:35 PM

I just don't eat fast food

healthier and less expensive

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 22, 2024, 02:56:59 PM

Ron D is out, which makes me happy. He can now focus on Florida. I wish he'd never got in. Oh well.

https://www.wsj.com/politics/elections/ron-desantis-ends-presidential-bid-in-crushing-political-setback-for-the-republican-candidate-8f021131?st=yn1pl9mrg779dp6&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 22, 2024, 03:05:36 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 22, 2024, 01:47:56 PM

I think I've been to Whataburger once or twice while traveling, and I can't say I recall it very well. Certainly not enough to offer an opinion on the burger quality.

However, I disagree with the idea that having a more expansive menu necessarily makes one place better than another.

I.e., just like Whataburger, McDonalds has a much more expansive menu than In n Out, but I don't think anyone here (incl utee who made the expansive menu point) is going to claim that a McDonalds burger is better than an In n Out burger.

Quality and variety are orthogonal attributes when evaluating a restaurant. I don't want to eat at a place that has an expansive menu if all they serve is various flavors of sh!t. And I'm not going to avoid eating at a place if they only have serve one item I like but that one thing makes the visit worthwhile for me because it's so good.

Maybe that makes Whataburger a better place for a family of five trying to successfully accommodate disparate tastes, but it's a different discussion than whether a core menu item from one place is better than a similar core menu item from another.

Whataburger is better, and has a larger and better menu.  There, I've settled the debate.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2024, 03:06:42 PM

in your considered opinion 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2024, 03:07:53 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 22, 2024, 02:56:59 PM

Ron D is out, which makes me happy. He can now focus on Florida. I wish he'd never got in. Oh well.

wish Trump and Biden were out so they could focus on other things
I wish neither of them had ever been in
Oh well

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 22, 2024, 03:15:30 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 22, 2024, 03:05:36 PM

Whataburger is better, and has a larger and better menu.  There, I've settled the debate.

I do not concede that Whataburger has a better burger. However, I am also not debating it, as I do not have enough experience with Whataburger to evaluate the claim. 

As performing the required evidentiary collection to make a claim involves eating delicious burgers, I look forward to having an opportunity to do so. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 22, 2024, 03:24:53 PM

It's pointless to debate matters of personal taste.  I was acting a little silly and trying to get that across.

But back to the initial point, brad's Five Guys experience seems pretty outrageously overpriced.  I haven't eaten at one in years, and I liked it fine when I did, but no way at those price points.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 22, 2024, 03:43:34 PM

I've mostly never liked restaurant hamburgers.  Almost always too greasy for me.  In an objective sense, Whataburger has got to be better than, say, McDonald's, but for my tastes, they're effectively equal, in that I don't want either one of them and both are likely to make me yak. 

I've had many homemade hamburgers that I really liked, so it's not that I don't like hamburgers. 

I've always claimed not to be a food snob, but on burgers I probably am.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 22, 2024, 03:51:29 PM

Hmmm, I like lots of restaurant burgers.

Believe it or not, Tex-Mex places make some of the absolute best burgers you can get.  Awesome gringo breakfasts too.  Something about the seasoning of the flat top, and probably violating some health codes by never cleaning them...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2024, 03:59:21 PM

I don't eat burgers out very often
too easy to make myself at home

I'll have another sammich
Rueben, or chicken or something I don't make at home often

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on January 22, 2024, 04:44:35 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 22, 2024, 10:18:26 AM

Vaguely related:

I wish Thomas Sowell's "Basic Economics" was required reading for high school or at least undergrad studies.  Although it's long, it's extremely readable and understandable.  It addresses multiple topics in depth, but seriously, it reads at like a 9th grade level, or less.  I've lent mine to friends over the years who argued for higher minimum wages, UBI, socialist economic principles, or just complained about the prohibitive cost of luxury items as relates to low-income individuals.  It's really a brilliant primer on how basic supply and demand and the allocation of resources affects things downstream on an everyday level, and, indirectly it also shines a light on how political types sometimes go wrong in their thinking when implementing policy.

Thomas Sowell, one of the great economic minds

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 22, 2024, 05:17:58 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 22, 2024, 03:59:21 PM

I don't eat burgers out very often
too easy to make myself at home

I'll have another sammich
Rueben, or chicken or something I don't make at home often

Man I love a good Reuben

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on January 22, 2024, 05:20:01 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 22, 2024, 05:17:58 PM

Man I love a good Reuben

Me as well.  And a Turkey Reuben or A Rachel 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2024, 05:20:19 PM

yup, anything with Kraut is good.

had some VERY good Reuben pizzas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2024, 05:20:58 PM

I usually only eat turkey at thanksgiving

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 22, 2024, 05:51:19 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 22, 2024, 03:43:34 PM

I've mostly never liked restaurant hamburgers.  Almost always too greasy for me.  In an objective sense, Whataburger has got to be better than, say, McDonald's, but for my tastes, they're effectively equal, in that I don't want either one of them and both are likely to make me yak. 

I've had many homemade hamburgers that I really liked, so it's not that I don't like hamburgers. 

I've always claimed not to be a food snob, but on burgers I probably am. 

I honestly feel like most menus have something better or more interesting than the burger. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 22, 2024, 07:34:17 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 22, 2024, 05:20:19 PM

yup, anything with Kraut is good gross.

I'll never ever understand the consumption of fermented things.  Ever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 22, 2024, 07:41:08 PM

Whataburger is good, but you'd better like mustard and onions.  
Their double burger is a lot of beef for a fast food burger.

In and Out is good, but I don't know why it's a whole big thing.  And the line is always long, which makes it "not worth it" in my eyes.
Same with Raisin' Canes chicken tenders.  Long-ass lines often....for chicken tenders.  Okay.  Whatever.

I view burgers like I do baseball managers:  you can't do much to make it great, but you can definitely screw things up.  A fast-food burger has a ceiling no one is bypassing.  But you can make a cylinder of bread, meat, and unholiness if you're not careful.  Especially quickly.  Especially made by kids.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 23, 2024, 08:25:54 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 22, 2024, 05:17:58 PM

Man I love a good Reuben

I'm right with you on that. Go-to if it's on the menu.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on January 23, 2024, 09:51:03 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 22, 2024, 07:41:08 PM

Same with Raisin' Canes chicken tenders.  Long-ass lines often....for chicken tenders.  Okay.  Whatever.

It's the cane Sauce

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 23, 2024, 10:27:54 AM

We have Canes around here.  Nobody lines up for it. Chick fil A, on the other hand-- lines all the way out the parking lot, down the access road, and onto the freeway, at noon or 6.

I love Reubens, too.

Quote from: FearlessF on January 22, 2024, 05:20:58 PM

I usually only eat turkey at thanksgiving

Oh man, you're missing out.  Smoked turkey is a truly wonderful item and it's delicious year-round.  Seriously underrated BBQ protein.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 23, 2024, 10:40:45 AM

I love turkey in general, and smoked turkey is amazing and one of life's great pleasures.

Looking forward to smoking some turkey when my smoker gets here :)


In my family, we typically do turkey and sausage gumbo, instead of chicken and sausage.  Not that I'm downplaying chicken and sausage gumbo in any way.  I love it, most people do chicken, and it's really great.  I just happen to prefer my grandmother's recipe, who also prefers turkey over chicken in her gumbo.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 23, 2024, 10:46:29 AM

I think gumbo is the next dish I'm going to try to perfect.  I've made it a few times, using various recipes of questionable authenticity.  It's always turned out decent, but I think I'd like to put some focus on it and see if I can bring it up to my same standard for BBQ, enchiladas, and chili.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2024, 10:53:45 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on January 23, 2024, 09:51:03 AM

It's the cane Sauce

never had it
one opened up here a couple years ago
big excitement and lines the first couple months

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2024, 10:55:05 AM

I've only been to Chick fil a or Starbucks if I'm with my daughters and they insist

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 23, 2024, 11:01:45 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 23, 2024, 10:55:05 AM

I've only been to Chick fil a or Starbucks if I'm with my daughters and they insist

My kids ar too young for coffee so Starbucks isn't a thing for them yet. Chick fil A was pretty heavy in the rotation when the kids were younger because they were a bit picky and it was something quick that would make them happy.  It was typically a quick-grab-after-soccer-practice kind of meal, when we didn't have time or energy to cook at home.  We rarely go there anymore though, maybe if we're out shopping and we need to grab lunch while we're out.  I'll admit I really love their spicy chicken biscuit.

But the other day my 16yo daughter said something that made me really happy and proud as a parent.  She said, "You know, I really love that we almost always have home-cooked meals for dinner.  It's so much better than restaurant food."  That was a true warm fuzzy moment.

We really try to make sure that on week-nights at least, we have home-cooked meals, and we sit down at the table and eat together.  It's become a little more different with the kids at different schools and their schedules diverging, but next year when they're both at the high school and they're both doing marching band as their primary extracurricular, it's going to get a little easier again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 23, 2024, 11:46:13 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 23, 2024, 10:46:29 AM

I think gumbo is the next dish I'm going to try to perfect.  I've made it a few times, using various recipes of questionable authenticity.  It's always turned out decent, but I think I'd like to put some focus on it and see if I can bring it up to my same standard for BBQ, enchiladas, and chili.

IMO, one of the great things about gumbo is that by definition, there's a lot of leeway.  Go to 5 different coonass's house and eat their gumbo, and you'll get 5 different versions.  I guess I'd categorize into two basic types, the turkey/chicken & sausage kind, and the okra kind.  Past that, you can kind of do whatever you want, so long as it's in roux and over rice.  Some folks like a lighter, thicker roux, and some like a darker, thinner roux, and all points in between have a fan, somewhere.  You can make your own roux, or there's good storebought pre-made roux.  You can spice the hell out of it (my mom does this, it's not really for me) or you can tone it way down (my great-grandmother, full-Cajun, swore that real Cajun food was not spicy, contrary to popular belief).  Whatever other ingredients you think match and you want to throw in there, it's mostly allowed.  

Point is, I don't think I've ever known two people who did it the same*, so as long as you like it, I believe I can speak for the Cajuns and give you the official Corrupt Louisiana Stamp of Approval.  The real trick is, can you make it outside in a small vat on a cold day for friends and family, to be the winter version of a crawfish boil?  When the answer is yes, you have achieved Maximum Honorary Cajun.  

*Well....except for Mrs. DeTiger, who has adjusted her recipe some to be more like my grandma's, because she's knows it's my fave.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 23, 2024, 11:54:56 AM

Yeah in general I know I prefer the darker roux.

And I've never thought of Cajun food as being particularly spicy. I mean, you can throw Tobasco or Crystal on anything to spice it up, but I honestly prefer NOT to add those types of hot sauces to a soup or stew, because they're so vinegary they dramatically change the flavor of whatever you're putting them on.  

I like to put hot sauces on sandwiches though.  The vinegar is welcome in that setting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2024, 11:56:28 AM

a little Cayenne pepper doesn't contain vinegar 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 23, 2024, 11:58:42 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 23, 2024, 11:56:28 AM

a little Cayenne pepper doesn't contain vinegar

Well sure.  I put a little cayenne in my chili.

But in general the Cajun food I've had in my life, both in the state of Louisiana, in its bastard sister-city of Houston, and here in the ATX, isn't particularly spicy.  There's always a bottle of Tobasco or Crystal or Louisiana Hot Sauce on the table, which folks tend to use to add some heat.  But that's  not my thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2024, 12:11:11 PM

I like it hot

I'll add either or both

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 23, 2024, 12:14:40 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 23, 2024, 11:46:13 AM

The real trick is, can you make it outside in a small vat on a cold day for friends and family, to be the winter version of a crawfish boil?  When the answer is yes, you have achieved Maximum Honorary Cajun. 

I doubt I will ever reach this mystical status, but if I can make a consistent pot that doesn't scream "n00b!" then I'll be happy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 23, 2024, 01:09:34 PM

Hmm... Gumbo could be a fun one to try. That's one that my wife probably can't eat in a restaurant due to her poultry allergy, but if I could make it at home with some substitution, it could open up a whole new thing to add to the rotation. I'd bet the kids would be fans too. 

Quote from: utee94 on January 23, 2024, 11:01:45 AM

But the other day my 16yo daughter said something that made me really happy and proud as a parent.  She said, "You know, I really love that we almost always have home-cooked meals for dinner.  It's so much better than restaurant food."  That was a true warm fuzzy moment.

Yep. And I think for my kids, they get to experience this as a SERIOUS contrast between what we do at our house and what their mom does at hers. First thing they do when they come to my house is look at the menu up on the wall. Hell, I'm not even sure they like me, but they certainly like the food over here!

Usually for their birthdays, we ask them if they want to go out to dinner or have us cook--and they choose our cooking. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 23, 2024, 01:15:36 PM

Crap, just realized the recipes I see for gumbo not only have chicken, they also have shrimp. Fine it it's just for my wife and I, but the middle child has a shellfish allergy. 

How much modification is too much before it's no longer "gumbo" lol?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on January 23, 2024, 01:30:59 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 23, 2024, 01:15:36 PM

Crap, just realized the recipes I see for gumbo not only have chicken, they also have shrimp. Fine it it's just for my wife and I, but the middle child has a shellfish allergy.

How much modification is too much before it's no longer "gumbo" lol?

I'm not sure, though I think gumbo is more about the sauce than the protein. Be a real cajun and use rabbit you shot in your backyard. Or some swamp frogs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 23, 2024, 01:39:17 PM

Yeah you can just make straight up sausage gumbo.  In Louisiana,  Andouille sausage is the most common, but I think you could use just about anything.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 23, 2024, 01:42:07 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on January 23, 2024, 01:30:59 PM

I'm not sure, though I think gumbo is more about the sauce than the protein. Be a real cajun and use rabbit you shot in your backyard. Or some swamp frogs.

I bet true cajuns would use nutria.  If you've never heard of nutria, look it up.  Mmmm mmm good eats.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2024, 02:05:02 PM

mud bugs!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 23, 2024, 02:56:17 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 23, 2024, 01:15:36 PM

Crap, just realized the recipes I see for gumbo not only have chicken, they also have shrimp. Fine it it's just for my wife and I, but the middle child has a shellfish allergy.

How much modification is too much before it's no longer "gumbo" lol?

Like I said, you can pretty much do whatever you want, but I tend to keep chicken/sausage and shrimp separated.  That's by common usage around here, and thus acquired preference, but not a rule you need to follow.  In my mind there's chicken and sausage gumbo (or turkey and sausage in my case), and there's okra gumbos, which I should probably call seafood gumbos because that's what most people would call what I'm thinking of.  Those tend to have shrimp.  And okra, if there's going to be okra.  In my opinion, one doesn't really go with the other, but as I say, that's just me, and if it floats your boat, it's not wrong.  In general I like different roux with each of those, and that's probably why I don't want to mix them.  I like a thinner roux in seafood gumbo.  Chicken/turkey/sausage...I like a very thick roux.  But, mix in shrimp with the chicken and sausage, if you like.  Nobody from the Boot is judging you.  

I feel like if its got rice and roux, you're only wrong if you don't like it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 23, 2024, 03:30:00 PM

No comment.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 23, 2024, 06:26:11 PM

laissez le bon temps rouler!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on January 23, 2024, 06:32:22 PM

I had some gumbo at a waterside restaurant in Destin last weekend. It was right tasty. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2024, 10:57:35 PM

so, Okra goes with shrimps or chicken?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 23, 2024, 11:17:36 PM

All this talk of cajun food has me wanting jambalaya. (Well, I always want jambalaya, to be honest) 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2024, 11:31:12 PM

jambalaya and/or gumbo

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 24, 2024, 01:00:43 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyoh2QQut-A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyoh2QQut-A)

Clarity in song.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 24, 2024, 05:14:37 AM

Italian food is superior to all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 24, 2024, 08:17:23 AM

FACT OF THE DAY:
The world’s oldest bottle of wine dates back to A.D. 325 and was found near the town of Speyer, Germany, inside one of two Roman sarcophaguses. It is on display at the town’s Historisches Museum der Pfalz.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 24, 2024, 09:17:01 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 24, 2024, 05:14:37 AM

Italian food is superior to all.

I love me some Italian food.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 24, 2024, 09:31:43 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 24, 2024, 09:17:01 AM

I love me some Italian food.

This place.


Home - Buca Mario Restaurant (https://www.bucamario.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 24, 2024, 10:08:14 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 24, 2024, 05:14:37 AM

Italian food BBQ is superior to all.

Fixed that for ya.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 24, 2024, 10:11:12 AM

I love me some BBQ.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 24, 2024, 11:12:42 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 24, 2024, 10:08:14 AM

Fixed that for ya.

You are wrong. But that's OK.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on January 24, 2024, 11:31:04 AM

I'm a little late the the discussion, but one of the foods that I get a craving for once in a while is a fried bologna sandwich from the G & R Tavern in Waldo Ohio. The bologna is NOT what most people would imagine, it is a recipe that the owner of the tavern came up with and is specially made for his tavern. Some would call it a spiced bologna, but this bologna, grilled on a grilled bun with a slice of swiss cheese and a slice of onion is to die for.

We have some friend who were flying out of Columbus with us on an afternoon flight. I suggested we stop in Waldo for a sandwich. They were skeptical but decided to give it a try. Now we get together with them and usually we consider driving to Waldo for a sandwich, which we have done on more than one occasion even thou it is about an 1-1/2 hour drive.

Have any of you posters living in Columbus been there?

EDIT: Add a link to their website. https://www.gandrtavern.com/menu/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 24, 2024, 11:42:18 AM

Ask them nicely,they'll take you in the back where you can eat it over the sink,proper like.With a schooner of Draught

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 24, 2024, 05:34:43 PM

tastes even better that way

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on January 25, 2024, 02:38:44 PM

It isn't so much willful viewership but rather what programs the networks schedule for primetime over and over - 50% of football viewership comes from just 18 teams:

(https://i.imgur.com/lzAkWej.jpg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 25, 2024, 03:10:39 PM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on January 25, 2024, 02:38:44 PM

It isn't so much willful viewership but rather what programs the networks schedule for primetime over and over 

You don't think the one drives the other?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 26, 2024, 11:59:05 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 25, 2024, 03:10:39 PM

You don't think the one drives the other?

I reckon it's slightly circular.  Some teams get more eyeballs, the networks know that, so they get primetime slots over and over, and end up picking up some new eyeballs over time, which makes them even better candidates for more primetime slots.  But I'd imagine the built-in base that is the initial viewership audience is the biggest factor, and remains so over time, even with add-on viewers gained over time.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: TyphonInc on January 26, 2024, 12:03:41 PM

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on January 25, 2024, 02:38:44 PM

It isn't so much willful viewership but rather what programs the networks schedule for primetime over and over - 50% of football viewership comes from just 18 teams:

(https://i.imgur.com/lzAkWej.jpg)

and 15 of those 18 are in 2 conferences.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2024, 10:49:47 AM

THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW IF YOU MOVE TO THE APPALACHIANS.
1. A possum is a flat animal that sleeps in the middle of the road.
2. There are 5,000 types of snakes and 4,998 of them live in the South.
3. There are 10,000 types of spiders. All 10,000 of them live in the South, plus a couple no one's seen before.
4. If it grows, it'll stick ya. If it crawls, it'll bite cha.
5. Onced and Twiced are words.
6. It is not a shopping cart, it is a buggy!
7. Jawl-P? means: Did you all go to the bathroom?
8. People actually grow, eat, and like okra.
9. Fixinto is one word. It means I'm going to do something.
10. There is no such thing as lunch. There is only dinner and then there's supper.
11. Iced tea is appropriate for all meals and you start drinking it when you're two. We do like a little tea with our sugar. It is referred to as the Wine of the South.
12. Backwards and forwards means I know everything about you.
13. The word jeet is actually a question meaning, 'Did you eat?'
14. You don't have to wear a watch, because it doesn't matter what time it is, you work until you're done or it's too dark to see.
15. You don't PUSH buttons, you MASH em.
16. Y'all is singular. All Y'all is plural.
17. All the festivals across the state are named after a fruit, vegetable, grain, insect, or animal.
18. You carry jumper cables in your car for your OWN car.
19. You only own five spices: salt, pepper, mustard, Tabasco, and ketchup.
20. The local papers cover national and international news on one page, but require 6 pages for local high school sports, motorsports, and gossip.
21. Everyone you meet is a Honey, Sugar, Miss (first name), or Mr (first name)
22. You think that the first day of deer season is a national holiday.
23. You know what a hissy fit is..
24. Fried catfish is the other white meat.
25. We don't need no dang Driver's Ed. If our mama says we can drive, we can drive!!!
26. You understand these jokes and forward them to your Appalachian friends and those who just wish they were from the Appalachians.
AND one more:
27. Why did the chicken cross the road? To show that stupid possum that it CAN be done!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2024, 07:29:30 AM

Georgia dormitory bat infestation welcomes students back to campus: ‘It’s very alarming’ | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/georgia-dormitory-bat-infestation-welcomes-students-campus-alarming)

This was a private off campus dorm when I was there, and I resided here for two of my three years.  It was more expensive but closer to my classes and had a pool and cafeteria (which wasn't awful).

I didn't know bats were a protected species.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2024, 07:52:35 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 27, 2024, 10:49:47 AM

THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW IF YOU MOVE TO THE APPALACHIANS.
1. A possum is a flat animal that sleeps in the middle of the road.

27. Why did the chicken cross the road? To show that stupid possum that it CAN be done!

Hey easy on Opposum's I've taken a liking to one of the waddlers from the woods behind my house,feed it damn near every nite in the cold

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2024, 08:00:14 AM

Gotta protect bats. Can't design Covid without them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2024, 08:01:38 AM

More important than bees!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 28, 2024, 08:16:03 AM

pest control guy told me

if you need to kill one in your house, dispose of it discretely and don't brag about it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 28, 2024, 08:23:53 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on January 28, 2024, 07:52:35 AM

Hey easy on Opposum's I've taken a liking to one of the waddlers from the woods behind my house,feed it damn near every nite in the cold

I'd feed it lead

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 28, 2024, 08:24:30 AM

PARIS (AP) — Two climate activists hurled soup Sunday at the glass protecting the Mona Lisa at the Louvre Museum in Paris and shouted slogans advocating for a sustainable food system. This came amid protests by French farmers against several issues, including low wages.

In a video posted on social media, two women with the words “FOOD RIPOSTE” written on their t-shirts could be seen passing under a security barrier to get closer to the painting and throwing soup at the glass protecting Leonardo da Vinci’s masterpiece.

“What’s the most important thing?” they shouted. “Art, or right to a healthy and sustainable food?”

“Our farming system is sick. Our farmers are dying at work,” they added.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2024, 12:23:07 PM

Live updates: US troops killed in Jordan, Israel-Hamas war, Gaza crisis (cnn.com) (https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-01-28-24/index.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2024, 12:30:41 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 28, 2024, 12:23:07 PM

Live updates: US troops killed in Jordan, Israel-Hamas war, Gaza crisis (cnn.com) (https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-01-28-24/index.html)

This is a huge mess. Could escalate at any time. Iran is a major problem for the free world.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 29, 2024, 09:37:48 AM

UN employees involved in Gaza's attack.

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/at-least-12-u-n-agency-employees-involved-in-oct-7-attacks-intelligence-reports-say-a7de8f36?st=xbvqvqj4vha5oji&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2024, 10:56:12 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2024, 12:30:41 PM

This is a huge mess. Could escalate at any time. Iran is a major problem for the free world.

We knew this would eventually happen with things as they are, and our presence as it is, in the ME.

I hope that our Leaders had a plan for this eventuality.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 29, 2024, 10:59:54 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 28, 2024, 08:23:53 AM

I'd feed it lead

A pox on your Bugeaters,bastage.........oh wait there already is

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 29, 2024, 11:22:04 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 29, 2024, 10:56:12 AM

We knew this would eventually happen with things as they are, and our presence as it is, in the ME.

I hope that our Leaders had a plan for this eventuality.

This shit is so deep-rooted over there. I'm not sure any fix is possible. 

Even a two-state solution doesn't fix things. Iran wants Israel wiped off the face of the earth.

 Until one of those two fall, this is a forever problem.

Period.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2024, 11:23:59 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 29, 2024, 11:22:04 AM

This shit is so deep-rooted over there. I'm not sure any fix is possible.

Even a two-state solution doesn't fix things. Iran wants Israel wiped off the face of the earth.

 Until one of those two fall, this is a forever problem.

Period.

Sure but U.S. presence there is of our own choosing.  I'd expect multiple contingency plans based on actions and outcomes. There was zero doubt this would eventually happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 29, 2024, 11:41:30 AM

I'd like to see the US pull out of all ME operations. Enough already.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 29, 2024, 12:27:15 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 29, 2024, 11:41:30 AM

I'd like to see the US pull out of all ME operations. Enough already.

For better or worse, probably can't be done. 

We're the only ones who can threaten folks into mildly behaving (we're not gonna trust Europe to do it). If we drop backing Israel, the Islamic world will try to wipe them out. And if things get that dire for Israel, they'll nuke 4-5 Arab capitals, and then we're all in a heap of trouble. 

Such is life. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 29, 2024, 12:44:04 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 29, 2024, 11:22:04 AM

This shit is so deep-rooted over there. I'm not sure any fix is possible.

Yup and soldiers sent would just be one long troubled police state

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2024, 12:44:08 PM

We're tied to Israel (and Egypt) via the Camp David Accords from back in the 1970s.  And of course we tend to give Israel military aid when asked.

Another factor is interest is sea lanes for commerce.  The US Navy is practicably the only force able to ensure them, and when they get imperiled, it does impact the US.

I suspect most of "us" would prefer seeing a lower level of US commitment overseas, but it's just not going to happen, realistically, no matter who gets elected.  This is also one main reason our military spending is so high.  No other country has anything like the US' ability to "project power".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on January 29, 2024, 12:47:44 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 29, 2024, 12:44:08 PM

I suspect most of "us" would prefer seeing a lower level of US commitment overseas, but it's just not going to happen, realistically, no matter who gets elected.  This is also one main reason our military spending is so high.  No other country has anything like the US' ability to "project power".

Those cocks have been overcharging since day one - Even IKE called them out in his farwell address.They could give a crap if the rest of this country burns as long as their coffers have been obscenely lined

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 29, 2024, 12:54:38 PM

Yep, Ike warned us. And here we are.

And why can't we leave it to Europe to protect Israel? Or have Israel protect itself?

What happens if "we" take out Yemen? Lebanon? All hell breaks loose is what happens.

If "we" go after Iran, now China, Russia and Rocket Man get involved.

There is NO solution.

Just need to keep the shipping lanes open and that's it. Enough with the arms supplying and boots on the ground.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2024, 12:57:31 PM

LOL at expecting Europe to do anything about it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2024, 01:14:49 PM

I feel bad for the people in Gaza but, I don't want Americans over there losing their lives trying to prevent both sides from killing each other as they've done for centuries and will be doing centuries from now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2024, 02:02:08 PM

Europe lacks the ability to project power. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on January 29, 2024, 02:22:45 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 29, 2024, 12:54:38 PM

And why can't we leave it to Europe to protect Israel? Or have Israel protect itself?

Because until we (the US) began guaranteeing their security under the umbrella of NATO, there was a major, wholesale shooting war on the Continent about ever 30-40 years. Considering that Europe had been destroyed twice in the 35 years prior to the formation of NATO, it was a good investment then and remains so now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2024, 04:03:45 PM

My wish, which is futile, would be to have a comprehensive review of our overseas commitments.  We can't keep spending on this military like this forever.  I can understand that keeping 2 ID in South Korea MAY have prevented another conflict there, OK, but even today is that necessary?  And we have 2 MarDiv in Okinawa as well.

I dunno, I'd get 'experts' to sort it out (ha ha) and trim.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 29, 2024, 06:53:15 PM

Interesting of Bill Maher by Reason Magazine: 

https://reason.com/2024/01/29/the-last-liberal/

Bill Maher is one of my favorites because whether you agree with him or disagree (and I disagree a fair bit), he's pretty much always insightful, funny, and gives you something to think about. And apparently he's generally seen that way by most:

Quote

December, the public research firm WPA Intelligence came out with a small survey (https://twitter.com/WPAIntel/status/1738332293159092610) with potentially huge—and widely ignored—implications for institutional media, entertainment, and government.

Asking 1,000 registered voters which of eight listed media personalities they trusted, the firm found podcast iconoclast Joe Rogan—who has been serially singled out by the Joe Biden White House for COVID-19 "misinformation"—in second place with 36 percent, just edging out former Fox News host Tucker Carlson's 35 percent and Daily Wire impresario Ben Shapiro's 33, and far ahead of the industry-respected CNN anchor Jake Tapper (23 percent).

In first place, with 40 percent, including the highest ratings of the group among political independents? Comedian Bill Maher.

Thought some of you might enjoy this one. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2024, 07:19:40 PM

That is interesting.

Also interesting that 30 years ago, the top 3 probably would have been the news anchors for NBC, ABC, and CBS.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2024, 01:12:43 AM

I like Maher, but it's not tough to top that list.  
Carlson is a clown who acknowledges blatantly lying.
Shapiro is a fast-talking religious zealot with aspergers.
.
At least Maher isn't blindly on either end.  He's not bigger because he's 60+ years old and all of his references are ancient, but he's doing okay for himself.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 30, 2024, 06:33:37 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2024, 01:12:43 AM

I like Maher, but it's not tough to top that list. 
Carlson is a clown who acknowledges blatantly lying.
Shapiro is a fast-talking religious zealot with aspergers.
.
At least Maher isn't blindly on either end.  He's not bigger because he's 60+ years old and all of his references are ancient, but he's doing okay for himself.

Name them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 30, 2024, 06:36:21 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on January 29, 2024, 02:22:45 PM

Because until we (the US) began guaranteeing their security under the umbrella of NATO, there was a major, wholesale shooting war on the Continent about ever 30-40 years. Considering that Europe had been destroyed twice in the 35 years prior to the formation of NATO, it was a good investment then and remains so now.

NATO. We own it.

UN too. We own it.

I'm calling for a rummage sale.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 30, 2024, 10:05:54 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 29, 2024, 01:14:49 PM

I feel bad for the people in Gaza but, I don't want Americans over there losing their lives trying to prevent both sides from killing each other as they've done for centuries and will be doing centuries from now.

I don’t think we will. We will put some economic pressure on Israel to knock it the hell off. That’s probably not the kind of situation we get directly involved in.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 30, 2024, 10:30:49 AM

Why should the US put pressure on Israel to stop?  If a guy repeatedly breaks into your house and tries to kill you, and he tells everyone, loudly, for three quarters of a century that he's going to kill you, and you finally pick up a shotgun and fire at him as he's breaking in one of your windows, and I tell you to knock it off, you'd have every right to tell me to F off and go to hell.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 30, 2024, 10:36:06 AM

fine, but they're obviously not just killin the guy

they are killin women and children

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 30, 2024, 10:36:40 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 30, 2024, 10:30:49 AM

Why should the US put pressure on Israel to stop?  If a guy repeatedly breaks into your house and tries to kill you, and he tells everyone, loudly, for three quarters of a century that he's going to kill you, and you finally pick up a shotgun and fire at him as he's breaking in one of your windows, and I tell you to knock it off, you'd have every right to tell me to F off and go to hell. 

It shouldn't. It should step the hell out and let the kids fight in their sandbox.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 30, 2024, 10:43:24 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 30, 2024, 10:36:06 AM

fine, but they're obviously not just killin the guy

they are killin women and children

Yeah, that happens in war.  It's horrible.  But I don't know what part of "We are going to keep coming to kill you" is hard to understand.  This isn't a one-off.  This is a repeated, sustained, pattern of behavior over decades by a group of people so militantly radical that when a group of them tried to get into Saudi Arabia, the Saudis kicked them out and said "Hell no."  Do you know how crazy and dangerous you have to be for the Saudis to boot you?  

There are undoubtedly innocent people in Gaza.  Whoever's left that Hamas hasn't used as human shields, anyway.  They also voted for Hamas and put them in power there.  And none of it takes away Israel's right to combat an enemy that, again, wants to kill them, unashamedly.  And....you know.....put Israeli babies in ovens and baked them back in the most recent horrific attack.

If you want to extend the example of "the guy," well he's coming through your window, again, to kill you, again, but he's got his wife and kid hostage in front of him, but hey......totally let him come in and kill your kids, because hey, if there's innocent people involved on his end you have no choice but to give up and let him keep coming.  Screw the innocent people you're charged with protecting.  

Or not.  

Also, most reports I've seen of civilian casualties in Gaza come from....wait for it.....Hamas.  Hamas, who has proven to be....less than reliable with their info, over the years.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 30, 2024, 10:51:53 AM

And by "innocent," I mean civilians who aren't directly involved in Hamas' terrorist activities.  But it's still misrepresenting the situation, because almost every Gazan civilian hates Israel, loves it when Hamas attacks them, and is happy to chant "Death to Israel" to anyone, for any occasion. 

"Innocents" don't condone that kind of thing, or indirectly participate/fund/facilitate it, or perpetuate its ideology.  Which Gazans almost universally do. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 30, 2024, 10:59:10 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 30, 2024, 06:36:21 AM

NATO. We own it.

UN too. We own it.

I'm calling for a rummage sale.

yup.

The entire purpose of NATO's existence was as the first secretary General of NATO stated in 1952- "to keep the Soviet Union out, the Americans in, and the Germans down" - welp, Soviet Union disintegrated in 1991, and instead of scaling it back the fking IDIOTS who run the US stupidly and recklessly kept expanding it East.

NATO's only reason for existence now is to maintain US dominance in Europe and to secure energy pipelines & shipping lanes in that region of the world. That's it. It's all just US Empire.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 30, 2024, 11:01:20 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on January 30, 2024, 10:05:54 AM

I don’t think we will. We will put some economic pressure on Israel to knock it the hell off. That’s probably not the kind of situation we get directly involved in.

US is already directly involved in it. Israel would not be able to maintain it's illegal occupation of Palestine for the last 70 years nor exist as a state or be able to function without the extreme and direct support it receives from the United States. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 30, 2024, 11:02:16 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 30, 2024, 10:36:06 AM

fine, but they're obviously not just killin the guy

they are killin women and children

yeah, no shit. they are literally destroying all of Gaza. they've turned it into a parking lot, indiscriminately bombing schools, hospitals- fking everything. believe over 50% of the population of Gaza are children. they are being slaughtered. it's fking disgusting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 30, 2024, 11:04:40 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 30, 2024, 10:36:40 AM

It shouldn't. It should step the hell out and let the kids fight in their sandbox.

Too late. US is already directly in it. Has been for decades. Israel doesn't produce Tomahawk cruise missiles, F-16's, Apache attack helicopters, tanks, etc., etc., they get all the weapons they use to occupy and slaughter Gaza from the US. Not to mention free $$$$$$ and loan guarantees.

We've got to be the dumbest nation on planet earth. Should've told the Israeli's to fk right off decades ago. Good time would've been right after our "ally" attacked one of our ships in the '60s.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 30, 2024, 11:05:39 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 30, 2024, 10:43:24 AM

Yeah, that happens in war.  It's horrible.  But I don't know what part of "We are going to keep coming to kill you" is hard to understand.  This isn't a one-off.  This is a repeated, sustained, pattern of behavior over decades by a group of people so militantly radical that when a group of them tried to get into Saudi Arabia, the Saudis kicked them out and said "Hell no."  Do you know how crazy and dangerous you have to be for the Saudis to boot you? 

There are undoubtedly innocent people in Gaza.  Whoever's left that Hamas hasn't used as human shields, anyway.  They also voted for Hamas and put them in power there.  And none of it takes away Israel's right to combat an enemy that, again, wants to kill them, unashamedly.  And....you know.....put Israeli babies in ovens and baked them back in the most recent horrific attack.

If you want to extend the example of "the guy," well he's coming through your window, again, to kill you, again, but he's got his wife and kid hostage in front of him, but hey......totally let him come in and kill your kids, because hey, if there's innocent people involved on his end you have no choice but to give up and let him keep coming.  Screw the innocent people you're charged with protecting. 

Or not. 

Also, most reports I've seen of civilian casualties in Gaza come from....wait for it.....Hamas.  Hamas, who has proven to be....less than reliable with their info, over the years. 

Lol. Yeah, no dude. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 30, 2024, 11:07:08 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 30, 2024, 10:36:40 AM

It shouldn't. It should step the hell out and let the kids fight in their sandbox.

Agree.  No need for us to be involved in that.  Israel, though an ally who could potentially be embroiled in conflicts I'd say the US does have an interest and obligation to help them, is more than capable of dealing with this without any help from us.  

It just sucks when I see people demeaning them for rooting out murderers they have finally--FINALLY--had enough of, after repeated terrorist attacks spanning decades, each one of which afterwards Israel magnanimously did not wipe Gaza from the map, but instead gave them resources, food, electricity, etc.  

This pansy bs attitude would look at Hitler in WWII and say "Well gee, if France and Poland and the Jews would just quit pissing Hitler off, this would all stop.  Let's tell them to knock if off.  Because peace, and stuff." 

"Oh, but Hitler was a military leader and head of state who encroached in other sovereign terrories and sought to take them over."

Yeah, exactly like Hamas.  I wonder, did the Allies liberate Poland and France and say that's enough, no need to risk anymore civilians, or did they go into Germany and deal with the problem?  

We live in a time when most people can't fathom ideologies of hate, and evil, and so whoever is doing the shooting at the moment is unpalatable and they must need to quit.  We can't get our heads around entities that want to harm, and for whom no olive branches extended will ever pacify.  In utopia, committing to not militarizing against something/someone pans out.  In reality, unfortunately it doesn't.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 30, 2024, 11:07:13 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 30, 2024, 11:01:20 AM

US is already directly involved in it. Israel would not be able to maintain it's illegal occupation of Palestine for the last 70 years nor exist as a state or be able to function without the extreme and direct support it receives from the United States.

That's on the Brits. They started it off after WW1.

Let them deal with it now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 30, 2024, 11:09:01 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 30, 2024, 10:51:53 AM

And by "innocent," I mean civilians who aren't directly involved in Hamas' terrorist activities.  But it's still misrepresenting the situation, because almost every Gazan civilian hates Israel, loves it when Hamas attacks them, and is happy to chant "Death to Israel" to anyone, for any occasion. 

"Innocents" don't condone that kind of thing, or indirectly participate/fund/facilitate it, or perpetuate its ideology.  Which Gazans almost universally do.

Israel is not innocent. They have been occupying the Palestinian people for decades. 

You do know there were like basically no Jews in that entire region until the late 1920's, right? Israel is a colonizer nation that's happened right before our very eyes in the last 100 years- they've wiped out an entire population and just taken their land and established a new nation that did not and would not exist if it wasn't for the British and the US supporting it. 

I'm sure you'd just love it and be A OK if a bunch of Mexicans came into the US, set up shop, declared a new nation, then just decided to occupy all the land because 1/3rd of the US used to be part of Mexico- so hey- they have a right to reclaim it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 30, 2024, 11:10:29 AM

Israel has a right to exist.

So does Palestine.

Therein lies the problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 30, 2024, 11:11:06 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 30, 2024, 11:05:39 AM

Lol. Yeah, no dude.

Brilliant argument.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 30, 2024, 11:12:15 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 30, 2024, 11:07:13 AM

That's on the Brits. They started it off after WW1.

Let them deal with it now.

it's 100% on the Brits. They fked everything up in the entire world basically. 

They can't deal with it anymore. The Brits are a bunch of has beens. They are nothing but our little lapdog poodle. A powerless, useless, pathetic nation. 

It's up to us to deal with it. And unfortunately the current administration has done a SH*T fking job of that. Hate Trump all you want- but the Middle East wasn't on fire and Europe wasn't in chaos when he was running the show. Dude got results. Who cares if he's a bully who mean tweets and is a despicable human being. Can he do the job well is all that matters. Are his policies effective is all that matters. And he CLEARLY did a MUCH better job than this brain dead nursing home patient has done. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 30, 2024, 11:13:35 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 30, 2024, 11:10:29 AM

Israel has a right to exist.

So does Palestine.

Therein lies the problem.

no nation has a right to exist. they exist in the fact that they exist bc they can.

people do have a right not to be slaughtered like cattle however IMO.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 30, 2024, 11:19:33 AM

I think y'all are really going to settle this debate, finally, right here on this forum.

Thousands of years of conflict and murder from both sides, but you'll be able to solve it.  

Good job!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 30, 2024, 11:24:34 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 30, 2024, 11:19:33 AM

I think y'all are really going to settle this debate, finally, right here on this forum.

Thousands of years of conflict and murder from both sides, but you'll be able to solve it. 

Good job!

truth. 

:043:

my personal opinion? US should've ethered Israel after it's attack on the USS Liberty in 1967. Only country that's ever attacked the US and we never hit them back 100x harder. I'm sorry but you attack one of our ships and kill 40 US servicemen and injury hundreds more- we typically wax that ass, kick ass and take names. But yeah, nothing happened to them. Not even a slap on the wrist.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 30, 2024, 11:27:50 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 30, 2024, 11:19:33 AM

I think y'all are really going to settle this debate, finally, right here on this forum.

Thousands of years of conflict and murder from both sides, but you'll be able to solve it. 

Good job!

Touche, but I honestly don't think it's that complicated of a subject, as people want to make it.  

I will say, I'm probably one of the few people on "my side," in my experience anyway, who acknowledges the Arabs have a claim. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 30, 2024, 11:29:37 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 30, 2024, 11:13:35 AM

no nation has a right to exist. they exist in the fact that they exist bc they can.

people do have a right not to be slaughtered like cattle however IMO.

Kinda like what Hamas did to a bunch of civilians recently.....again?  

So since Israeli citizens have the right not to be slaughtered like cattle, you must support their right to ensure that doesn't happen again. 

Glad we agree.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: jgvol on January 30, 2024, 11:37:16 AM

You want the truth?  LOL -- we are owned by Israel, and run by Israel.  Time to open your peepers.



https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jews-in-the-biden-administration


Aaron Keyak   Deputy Envoy to Monitor and Combat Anti-Semitism
Alan Leventhal   U.S. Ambassador to Denmark
Alejandro Mayorkas   Secretary of Homeland Security
Amos Hochstein   Bureau of Energy Resources Special Envoy
Amy Gutmann   U.S. Ambassador to Germany
Anne Neuberger   Deputy National Security Adviser for Cybersecurity
Avril Haines   Director of National Intelligence
Constance Milstein   U.S. Ambassador to Malta
Dan Shapiro   Adviser on Iran (2021-2023), Senior Advisor for Regional Integration (2023), Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Middle East Policy (2023-2024)
Daniel Rosenblum   U.S. Ambassador to Kazakhstan
David Cohen   CIA Deputy Director
David Cohen   U.S. Ambassador to Canada
David Kessler   Co-chair of the COVID-19 Advisory Board and Head of Operation Warp Speed
David Pressman   U.S. Ambassador to Hungary
Deborah Lipstadt   Special Envoy to Monitor and Combat Anti-Semitism
Edward Siskel   White House Counsel
Ellen Germain   U.S. Special Envoy for Holocaust Issues
Eric Garcetti   U.S. Ambassador to India
Eric Lander   Science and Technology Adviser
Gary Gensler   Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) Chairman*
Genine Macks Fidler    National Council on the Humanities
Jack Lew   U.S. Ambassador to Israel (replaced Thomas Nides)
Jack Markell   U.S. Ambassador to Italy and San Marino
Janet Yellin   Secretary of Treasury
Jared Bernstein   Council of Economic Advisers
Jed Kolko   Under Secretary of Commerce for Economic Affairs at the Department of Commerce
Jeffrey Zients   COVID-19 Response Coordinator (2021-2023), Chief of Staff (2023)
Jennifer Klein   Co-chair Council on Gender Policy
Jessica Rosenworcel   Chair of the Federal Communications Commission
Jonathan Kanter   Assistant Attorney General in the United States Department of Justice Antitrust Division
Jonathan Kaplan   U.S. Ambassador to Singapore
Mandy Cohen   Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (2023) replaced Rochelle Walensky
Marc Nathanson   U.S. Ambassador to Norway
Marc Ostfield   U.S. Ambassador to Paraguay
Marc Stanley   U.S. Ambassador to Argentina
Mark Gitenstein   U.S. Ambassador to the European Union
Merrick Garland   Attorney General
Michael Adler   U.S. Ambassador to Belgium
Michèle Taylor   U.S. Representative to the United Nations Human Rights Council
Mira Resnick   State Department Deputy Assistant Secretary for Regional Security
Ned Price**   State Department Spokesperson
Polly Trottenberg   Deputy Secretary of Transportation
Rachel Levine   Deputy Health Secretary
Rahm Emanuel   U.S. Ambassador to Japan
Randi Charno Levine   U.S. Ambassador to Portugal
Roberta Jacobson   National Security Council “border czar”
Rochelle Walensky   Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (2021 - resigned July 2023)
Ron Klain   Chief of Staff (2021-2023), replaced by Jeffrey Zients
Sharon Kleinbaum   Commissioner of the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom
Shelley Greenspan   White House liaison to the Jewish community
Stephanie Pollack   Deputy Administrator of the Federal Highway Administration (resigned February 2023)
Steven Dettelbach   Director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
Stuart Eizenstat   Special Adviser on Holocaust Issues
Tony Blinken   Secretary of State
Wendy Sherman   Deputy Secretary of State (resigned July 2023)
Yael Lempert   U.S. Ambassador to Jordan
*Nominated by Biden but serves a five-year term and not technically a member of the administration.
**Price has a Jewish father and Christian mother and identifies as Jewish.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 30, 2024, 11:40:37 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 30, 2024, 11:29:37 AM

Kinda like what Hamas did to a bunch of civilians recently.....again? 

So since Israeli citizens have the right not to be slaughtered like cattle, you must support their right to ensure that doesn't happen again. 

Glad we agree. 

we definitely agree. 

stack up the body counts however over the last 70+ years. Israel is like the Michael Jordan of killing and the Palestinians are like G-League scrubs who can barely make the roster. 

The Palestinians have been living under occupation in what is essentially an open air prison. Of course there is going to be blowback from that. Obviously not saying the blowback is warranted- as terror attacks and murder of civilians is disgusting and immoral. But it's not as if they are just happening because. Palestinians are living in absolute shit conditions- and have been for 70+ years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 30, 2024, 11:40:44 AM

I'm just sayin be a little more selective of targets

Hamas killin a bunch in a day or two is horrible and should be punished and deterred to doing that shit again.

Israel killin Thousands in bunches for months with no end in sight isn't any better.

We're led to believe by our press that when the US retaliates vs a terrorist state or organization that we go out of our way to limit collateral damage to civilians.
Hopefully, this is mostly true.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 30, 2024, 11:42:20 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 30, 2024, 11:27:50 AM

Touche, but I honestly don't think it's that complicated of a subject, as people want to make it. 

I will say, I'm probably one of the few people on "my side," in my experience anyway, who acknowledges the Arabs have a claim.

Oh how nice of you to acknowledge that Palestinians have a claim to not live under occupation in open air prisons and live on lands that they and their families have been living on for thousands of years until 1948. Kind of crazy how an American of Jewish descent has a guaranteed right by birth to return to Israel but Palestinians who were forced to flee their homes during war in the 40's and 60's- and have documents proving land ownership from the days of the British Mandate do not have the right to return.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 30, 2024, 11:48:08 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 30, 2024, 11:40:44 AM

I'm just sayin be a little more selective of targets

Hamas killin a bunch in a day or two is horrible and should be punished and deterred to doing that shit again.

Israel killin Thousands in bunches for months with no end in sight isn't any better.

We're led to believe by our press that when the US retaliates vs a terrorist state or organization that we go out of our way to limit collateral damage to civilians.

Hopefully, this is mostly true.

look at the drone shots of Gaza before and after.

they are not being selective. they are purposely turning the entire strip into rubble and ruins. they are purposely turning it into an uninhabitable wasteland. the Israeli military/gov't simply does not care about the life of Palestinian women and children. they aren't merely just "mowing the lawn" as they call it- every few years - they are out to level everything in sight regardless of who gets killed and maimed in the process.

30,000 people have been killed in the last couple months of Israel's invasion, most of them women & children, and almost 2 million people have been displaced from their homes because of the constant bombings, most of them women & children.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on January 30, 2024, 12:28:18 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 30, 2024, 10:59:10 AM

The entire purpose of NATO's existence was as the first secretary General of NATO stated in 1952- "to keep the Soviet Union out, the Americans in, and the Germans down" - welp, Soviet Union disintegrated in 1991, and instead of scaling it back the fking IDIOTS who run the US stupidly and recklessly kept expanding it East.

Vladimir Putin's actions in Ukraine have been the best advertisement for NATO since Stalin.

As I said, it's in the US' interest to not have Europe destroyed every 30-40 years, and is money well spent.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 30, 2024, 12:30:45 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on January 30, 2024, 11:40:37 AM

we definitely agree.

stack up the body counts however over the last 70+ years. Israel is like the Michael Jordan of killing and the Palestinians are like G-League scrubs who can barely make the roster.

The Palestinians have been living under occupation in what is essentially an open air prison. Of course there is going to be blowback from that. Obviously not saying the blowback is warranted- as terror attacks and murder of civilians is disgusting and immoral. But it's not as if they are just happening because. Palestinians are living in absolute shit conditions- and have been for 70+ years.

It's not me....history just fundamentally disagrees with you on the "Palestine being occupied by Israel" narrative.  Although I don't blame you, because it is very much a strongly perpetuated narrative, and one anyone who views any legacy media or goes to college has probably heard.  And like the best falsehoods, it actually does have a kernel of truth to it.  But, I think it's shown to be false in a wider context.  

It's far too much to type here, and I've also learned facts don't sway people nearly as much as they should (on either side), so I'll spare you the diatribe.  But I don't agree with that narrative, for various reasons.  

Your second point is worth addressing.  Palestinians do love in shit conditions, and have been for years.  That's because they do that to themselves.  Every single thing Palestinians attempt to better themselves, Hamas blocks them or screws it up, just like the civilians who tried to leave the area when Israel announced their retaliation well in advance and for civilians to leave in case they were caught in crossfire, and Hamas blocked all the exits.  The a-holes literally kept their own people from leaving the impending strikes.  The worst part is their circumstances are in addition to a multitude of supplies Israel is has given them over the years to better themselves.  One example is pipes to build and repair sewage lines.  What happened to those pipes?  Hamas took it all and built rocket launchers and pipe bombs out of it.  There is a long, long list of the Israeli state giving supplies to Gaza that the citizens never see and get no benefit from.  

It is crap conditions, and the people responsible for it are unfortunately the people the Gazans elected, and still support.  It is highly questionable at this point whether the Gazans could vote out Hamas if they wanted to, but look at interviews with anyone from the Gaza strip, or read their writing, or meet someone from there.....they do seem to still support Hamas in spite of it all, probably because they are taught literally from birth that Israel is their evil oppressor.  But blaming Israel for the crap conditions Hamas causes isn't helpful.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 30, 2024, 12:31:00 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 30, 2024, 10:30:49 AM

Why should the US put pressure on Israel to stop?  If a guy repeatedly breaks into your house and tries to kill you, and he tells everyone, loudly, for three quarters of a century that he's going to kill you, and you finally pick up a shotgun and fire at him as he's breaking in one of your windows, and I tell you to knock it off, you'd have every right to tell me to F off and go to hell. 

I love Israel as a place, but I wouldn’t describe them as just a passive person getting put upon until it snaps.

Israel gives it pretty good and has for a long time. In this analogy, they break plenty of windows and doors.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on January 30, 2024, 12:46:39 PM

No such thing as a one sided peace.  Not between Israel and Hamas or the US and Iran.  But that may be news to some people in DC and NYC.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 30, 2024, 02:00:40 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on January 30, 2024, 12:46:39 PM

No such thing as a one sided peace.  Not between Israel and Hamas or the US and Iran. But that may be news to some people in DC and NYC.

yeah no shit.

we make peace with our enemies, not our friends. this idea that we can't/shouldn't negotiate with our enemies is just stupid.

speaking of Iran- wonder where that country is today if the US doesn't use it's CIA to overthrow a secular Democratically elected gov't at the behest of oil companies in 1953 and then install a repressive dictator puppet and back said dictator to the hilt for nearly 30 years. They'd probably be A LOT better off, needless to say. There's pretty good reasons why they hate us....and it's not because we're just so awesome and free....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on January 30, 2024, 02:01:29 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on January 30, 2024, 12:28:18 PM

Vladimir Putin's actions in Ukraine have been the best advertisement for NATO since Stalin.

As I said, it's in the US' interest to not have Europe destroyed every 30-40 years, and is money well spent.

Yeah, or not. It's not nearly the advertisement you think it is.

Ukraine is in complete ruins in large part because of it's insane death march to join NATO/EU- and the US never actually you know- went to bat for Ukraine. Sure- we sent them a bunch of newly printed money, loan guarantees, weapons, and slapped some sanctions on Russia. Even blew up a Russian pipeline or two. Bye bye NordStream. But that's it. US didn't get directly involved and put boots on the ground or actually attack Russia. And US never will/would. Not for Ukraine. Ukraine's corrupt and stupid leaders took the line of BS America was selling them and just listened to the Americans- even listened to US' lapdog idiot bitchboys over at the UK when Boris Johnson flew to Kiev and pressured Zelensky not to soothe for a peace deal- all while many of the corrupt dipshits running Ukraine lined their pockets with free US cash all whilst letting their country get destroyed and blown to pieces. Russia? Well, they're just fine. Most of Europe's economies however have been in the toilet and inflation has been sky high for most of them because of the insane cost of energy & food due to said war.

Europe doesn't need NATO to prevent itself from going to war every 30-40 years. Newsflash: the imperial powers that were participating and causing all of those wars throughout the centuries- the British Empire, Holy Roman Empire, German Empire, Third Reich, Austria-Hungary Empire, French Empire, Spanish Empire, Portuguese Empire- have all long been dead. Virtually all of the countries in Western Europe are representative democracies, use the same currency, and are part of the EU. They ain't going to war with each other hombre. Western Europe is just fine without us there.

NATO doesn't need to keep expanding. If anything it should have ceased to exist after the fall of the Soviet Union. And the EU can do whatever it wants. The US doesn't need to babysit for them or use it's CIA to help them overthrow governments and push countries that aren't in Western Europe into the EU.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 30, 2024, 03:26:50 PM

fortunately, the stock market has decided to ignore the wars over there

all-time high again today for the S&P

gasoline did jump a dime in the past couple days - I'm sure there's a good reason

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2024, 11:12:59 PM

The U.S. loves short-sighted fixes and then has to deal with the ramifications for decades.  We'd wake ourselves up to take a sleeping pill. 
We act like every little tiny aggressor is some titanic threat to our safety and well-being...yet we're the ones with dozens of bases placed strategically around the world.  We are manning the seas at all times.  Satellites, drones, allied with 90% of the 1st world countries....yet we're at all times the elephant scared of the mouse.
.
Why is it so expensive to be this embarrassing?
It's like we've spent a million dollars to protect a 1-story ranch-style house worth $250K.  
It's vapid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 31, 2024, 01:59:35 AM

FYI, aside from a handful of teams (LA, SF, CHC), the '24 Spring Training ticket prices have lowered, and it's great.
There are $8, 10, 12 tickets again. 
Thanks, President Biden!  :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2024, 07:42:41 AM

You're thanking the wrong guy.

You can thank baseball.

Go woke = go broke.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2024, 08:14:33 AM

Iran warns of decisive response to any attack (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/iran-warns-of-decisive-response-to-any-attack/ar-BB1hxdBm?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=5a03f86c05054797a37404ab7c0d9741&ei=17)

Decisive, like how?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on January 31, 2024, 08:33:58 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2024, 07:42:41 AM

You're thanking the wrong guy.

You can thank baseball.

Go woke = go broke.

Wait, what did baseball do?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2024, 08:45:04 AM

Google "Georgia voting law and All-Star Game".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 31, 2024, 08:46:51 AM

voting laws are "woke"?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2024, 08:47:45 AM

?????????

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 31, 2024, 09:04:35 AM

WTH is going on around here?

Anyway, I guess it's nice that it costs less now to see teams... practicing?  Seems like that should be free but whatever.  Baseball fans are weird.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 31, 2024, 09:08:37 AM

Quote from: utee94 on January 31, 2024, 09:04:35 AM

WTH is going on around here?

Anyway, I guess it's nice that it costs less now to see teams... practicing?  Seems like that should be free but whatever.  Baseball fans are weird.

Don't judge us harshly, in the 90's it was the only thing we were good at.  

Now we're good at Wominz Basketball and gym.  

#gymschool

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 31, 2024, 09:25:03 AM

Can't remember if I was talking about this here or the recipes thread, but whatever.  In other news.....

My Traeger smoker came in yesterday and I think I picked a good model....size-wise it's about exactly what we'll need for routinely cooking for only 4, as we do, and the price was a few hundred dollars less than some other models which aren't even much bigger. 

This weekend will be the real break-in, but for a quick test-run I threw some kosher hotdogs on last night because they're quick and--let's face it--being basically already cooked, I figured they're nearly impossible to screw up.  After a false start with the pellets not loading correctly, it went quick and easy.  Added to some spicy mustard, jalepeno relish, side-fries and toasted buns, and it was all good.  I'd picked up a bag of hickory pellets (cuz that's what the wife wanted first) but I'm gonna grab some mesquite pellets shortly.  

This weekend, hopefully, come the real tests.  She wants to grill some chicken this weekend and I'm aiming for fish.  Once I graduate from the easy stuff and have gathered a few tips, then it'll be on to brisket!  (I want to work up to brisket carefully, you see, because I married a Texan, and I think they divorce you if you screw up brisket.  Or you're penalized in property taxes, or something like that.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on January 31, 2024, 09:29:20 AM

penalized with no nooky for you

but, maybe you're in that boat most of the time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2024, 10:12:47 AM

For a first run with a smoker, try pulled pork. It's nearly impossible to screw up. 

BTW if you don't already have a Food Saver, get one. I normally cook ~35 lbs of pork at once, and what isn't used for dinner gets bagged up in 8 oz and 1 lb bags and frozen. My wife has tons of recipes to use up that pork.

For brisket, there are also a lot of good ways to handle the leftovers, but this is my favorite:

https://www.vindulge.com/brisket-grilled-cheese-sandwiches/
https://www.vindulge.com/smoked-tomato-bisque/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 31, 2024, 10:23:51 AM

Leftover brisket usually goes into tacos, enchiladas, and chili, for me.

I don't know anything about pellets or pellet smokers.  For stick-burners, I always avoid mesquite because it burns hot and fast and imparts a LOT of overwhelming flavor. Post oak, pecan/hickory, and the fruit woods are all great choices for standard BBQ.

I do like to grill over mesquite coals, because the meat can pick up a lot of flavor in the short time it's on the fire.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 31, 2024, 10:25:34 AM

Oh and I totally agree with bwar, pork butt is a great pilot run for a smoker, it's really hard to mess it up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2024, 11:32:04 AM

The good thing about pellet smokers is that for a lot of new smokers, learning temperature control is the hardest part. That's one reason I say pulled pork. You can cook it at 225 or at 375 and it'll come out delicious either way. But with a pellet smoker, temp control is handled for you, so they're like pressing the easy button. 

I use mesquite charcoal in the kamado. It's nice that right at the Smart & Final around the corner I can buy 40# bags of it for $20. My view is that the process of turning it into charcoal basically tames the beast that is mesquite. I don't use mesquite as smoking wood for flavoring though--usually hickory chunks. And like you, if I was running a stick-burner I wouldn't use mesquite for that for the same reason. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 31, 2024, 11:46:30 AM

With Fish I recommend a mild wood because otherwise the smoke flavor will be overwhelming. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2024, 11:57:29 AM

I don't generally smoke fish. When I grill fish, I only use the charcoal and don't add any smoking wood. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2024, 12:16:20 PM

My fish always gets cooked in a cast iron pan.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 31, 2024, 12:25:36 PM

I've never smoked fish myself.  I've had plenty of cold-smoked salmon in my life but apparently hot-smoking is a thing, too.  I know nothing about how to perform either one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 31, 2024, 12:50:23 PM

Quote from: utee94 on January 31, 2024, 12:25:36 PM

I've never smoked fish myself.  I've had plenty of cold-smoked salmon in my life but apparently hot-smoking is a thing, too.  I know nothing about how to perform either one.

I'm 'bout tuh find out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CnhW9V5euc

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 31, 2024, 12:53:19 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2024, 11:32:04 AM

The good thing about pellet smokers is that for a lot of new smokers, learning temperature control is the hardest part. That's one reason I say pulled pork. You can cook it at 225 or at 375 and it'll come out delicious either way. But with a pellet smoker, temp control is handled for you, so they're like pressing the easy button.

I use mesquite charcoal in the kamado. It's nice that right at the Smart & Final around the corner I can buy 40# bags of it for $20. My view is that the process of turning it into charcoal basically tames the beast that is mesquite. I don't use mesquite as smoking wood for flavoring though--usually hickory chunks. And like you, if I was running a stick-burner I wouldn't use mesquite for that for the same reason.

I'm assuming something similar with the pellets, as mesquite pellets seem to be fairly popular.  

Mine obviously doesn't burn sticks or charcoal, so I'm out of the market for those top secret tips.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 31, 2024, 01:16:52 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 31, 2024, 12:53:19 PM

I'm assuming something similar with the pellets, as mesquite pellets seem to be fairly popular. 

Mine obviously doesn't burn sticks or charcoal, so I'm out of the market for those top secret tips.

Lots of folks use mesquite on their stick-burners, too-- it just doesn't taste very good. 

I believe I've mentioned here before, but probably the best BBQ meal I've ever had in my life, was when I was 13 or 14 and on a boy scout trip to Mexico for a week over Spring Break.  We camped on the grounds of a massive hacienda, the owner was a major contributor to Boy Scouts of Mexico and had invited us along with a local troop of Mexican scouts, to spend the week there.

One day we started fairly early and we dug out two trenches-- one, where we burned mesquite logs into mesquite coals, and one where we shoveled those coals, under several spits where we had whole goat kids roasting.  Mesquite coals have already burned off their initial heat and they've also burned off the majority of their overwhelming flavor, but they still have more than enough to flavor the meat.  So between the 40 or so kids for cheap labor, and the 10 or 12 adults "supervising" we made a ton of cabrito, and then feasted that afternoon/evening. 

Absolutely the best BBQ I've ever put in my face.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2024, 01:45:50 PM

One of the downsides of pellet smokers is that they generally don't impart very much "smoke" flavor. Definitely not as much as I get in a kamado, which is less than what you'll get from a stick burner. I have a Traeger that I use for various grilling tasks, but I always use the kamado for smoking. 

I could see mesquite pellets being a way to work around that, i.e. knowing the produce a MUCH more pronounced flavor, they are used to give more flavor than you can get from other woods. But if you tried the same thing in a kamado or stick burner, it would just be way too much. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 31, 2024, 02:00:03 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2024, 01:45:50 PM

One of the downsides of pellet smokers is that they generally don't impart very much "smoke" flavor.

Now you tell me. 

I probably don't get the point of a smoker that doesn't input much smoke flavor. 

I'm not excited about it anymore.  Nevermind.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 31, 2024, 02:06:42 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 31, 2024, 02:00:03 PM

Now you tell me. 

I probably don't get the point of a smoker that doesn't input much smoke flavor. 

I'm not excited about it anymore.  Nevermind. 

Ha!  No worries, you'll cut your teeth on the pellet smoker, and then move along to a full-sized competition offset in no time.


(https://i.imgur.com/EZEGz9e.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 31, 2024, 02:21:12 PM

I may be disappointed, but it was still the right choice, I reckon. 

1)  We needed a new grill and weren't particularly interested in propane like the old one. 
2)  Stick/charcoal doesn't seem right due to the time/attention/expertise required.  At this point I'm after more of a set-it-and-forget-it experience.  
3)  I could taste some smoke flavor in the hotdogs last night, and they were in there basically no time.  Any smoke flavor is better than none. 

That's the story I'm telling myself, anyway.

******************************************************************

I can tell I'm not in SEC company when I've gone this many posts and nobody has made a corndog joke.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2024, 02:21:37 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 31, 2024, 02:00:03 PM

Now you tell me. 

I probably don't get the point of a smoker that doesn't input much smoke flavor. 

I'm not excited about it anymore.  Nevermind. 

LOL... They're good smokers. I didn't want you to think I'm criticizing it. I'm not saying there's no smoke flavor, or that there isn't enough to make you happy and make good Q... 

Just that in comparison to other smoker designs, it's less. 

One thing I'd definitely state is that they make more smoke at lower temps. So I wouldn't recommend on a pellet smoker to be smoking a pork butt at 350 (which I do on the kamado b/c I don't have to run it overnight at that temp), and you may even want to set the Traeger depending on model to a "smoke" setting for the first part of cooking to give more smoke flavor. I know my Traeger, which is quite old, has a 180 degree setting. That's basically it's "smoke" setting. If I was trying to smoke on it I might consider running it at 180 for 2 hours before then cranking it up to 225.

I know other folks have used a separate smoker inside the pellet grill from a company named A-MAZE-N (https://pitboss-grills.com/accessories/a-maze-n-smokers). They're cheap and simple, so it's not like buying "a new smoker". It's a small metal tray or tube. Basically you load it up with the same pellets that fuel your Traeger, light it, and set it in the Traeger while you're cooking. You'll get more smoke flavor using that. 

I mean, Alton Brown made a smoker from a cardboard box and a hot plate (https://altonbrown.com/how-to-build-alton-browns-cardboard-box-smoker/). BBQ'ers are a resourceful bunch. You're already ahead of the game with the Traeger...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 31, 2024, 02:24:02 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2024, 02:21:37 PM

I mean, Alton Brown made a smoker from a cardboard box and a hot plate (https://altonbrown.com/how-to-build-alton-browns-cardboard-box-smoker/). BBQ'ers are a resourceful bunch. You're already ahead of the game with the Traeger...

Great episode. I wish he was still making shows.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on January 31, 2024, 02:39:57 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 31, 2024, 02:21:12 PM

I may be disappointed, but it was still the right choice, I reckon. 

1)  We needed a new grill and weren't particularly interested in propane like the old one. 
2)  Stick/charcoal doesn't seem right due to the time/attention/expertise required.  At this point I'm after more of a set-it-and-forget-it experience. 
3)  I could taste some smoke flavor in the hotdogs last night, and they were in there basically no time.  Any smoke flavor is better than none. 

That's the story I'm telling myself, anyway.

******************************************************************

I can tell I'm not in SEC company when I've gone this many posts and nobody has made a corndog joke.

Nah you're gonna be fine.  I think it'll be a perfect setup for you.  They're super-easy to use*, and you'll get plenty of flavor**. 

* as evidenced by a friend that has one and I've seen him "work" at it :)

** as evidenced by eating the BBQ produced by the above-mentioned friend,  and it being pretty tasty.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on February 02, 2024, 11:30:56 AM

Last night's smoked chicken breasts were a rousing success, I'd say.  I took @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) 's advice threw them on about 2 hours before I wanted them ready.  I tried the Smoke setting, which Traeger's webpage tells me is supposed to be about 160, floating between 160 and 180.  That was a bust, because for some reason the temp just kept climbing and climbing.  So after I realized it wasn't working as I expected, I switched it to 180, and the temp duly dropped and stayed there.  And indeed, that seemed to be the magic number on this model for lots of smoking. 

I kept them there about an hour and a half before knocking it up pretty high to go ahead and finish them off.  Real smokes, the ones where I can just slow-cook them the whole way, will probably be weekend affairs....not something I can pull off on a weekday, because we eat pretty early.

Anyway, they came out great, I thought.  I could really taste the hickory flavor of the pellets, and a nice amount of smoke flavor, although I could've done with a little more of that.  I'm sure they can be better.....since I'm not much of a griller of any kind at this point, I wondered if basting them up front might've helped some.  They weren't dry, but they were a little dryer than I am ultimately aiming for.  I was wondering if basting sooner would make them more moist and also if the sauce would help retain more of that smoke flavor.  I dunno. 

Anyway, good run to gauge how long that particular meat takes to do what it does at that temp, and got a pretty good sense of how many pellets will be required for smoking that long at those temps.  All good info.  And....I ain't mad at the chicken breasts.  Definitely better than just baking in the oven or doing them on the stove. 

Family liked them as well, and the wife did some good sides to go with.  Success!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 02, 2024, 11:38:46 AM

Good to hear! 

I do know that having the surface of the meat be as cold as possible during the smoking stage helps with smoke uptake, as well as basting (the liquid gives the smoke something to hold on to). Might try throwing them in the freezer 15 minutes before you start them, then baste, then throw them on. 

Can't help you much with the dryness. With a wife with a chicken allergy, I don't make chicken breast much. When for whatever reason I'm cooking for the kids and she's not home, I'm usually doing thighs, or wings, or roasting a whole spatchcock chicken, in which case the breasts are still on the bone... 

Generally it's believed that once the surface gets hot enough, the meat won't really take up much smoke. So you might be able to shorten the smoke step (especially with the freezer/baste trick) and then finish them hotter and quicker... Might help with the moisture content to not go low and slow for as long? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 02, 2024, 11:47:13 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on February 02, 2024, 11:30:56 AM

Last night's smoked chicken breasts were a rousing success, I'd say.  I took @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) 's advice threw them on about 2 hours before I wanted them ready.  I tried the Smoke setting, which Traeger's webpage tells me is supposed to be about 160, floating between 160 and 180.  That was a bust, because for some reason the temp just kept climbing and climbing.  So after I realized it wasn't working as I expected, I switched it to 180, and the temp duly dropped and stayed there.  And indeed, that seemed to be the magic number on this model for lots of smoking. 

I kept them there about an hour and a half before knocking it up pretty high to go ahead and finish them off.  Real smokes, the ones where I can just slow-cook them the whole way, will probably be weekend affairs....not something I can pull off on a weekday, because we eat pretty early.

Anyway, they came out great, I thought.  I could really taste the hickory flavor of the pellets, and a nice amount of smoke flavor, although I could've done with a little more of that.  I'm sure they can be better.....since I'm not much of a griller of any kind at this point, I wondered if basting them up front might've helped some.  They weren't dry, but they were a little dryer than I am ultimately aiming for.  I was wondering if basting sooner would make them more moist and also if the sauce would help retain more of that smoke flavor.  I dunno. 

Anyway, good run to gauge how long that particular meat takes to do what it does at that temp, and got a pretty good sense of how many pellets will be required for smoking that long at those temps.  All good info.  And....I ain't mad at the chicken breasts.  Definitely better than just baking in the oven or doing them on the stove. 

Family liked them as well, and the wife did some good sides to go with.  Success!

Do you have a thermometer? Chicken breasts are pretty easy to overcook. You probably want them off at around 155 degrees. Or use fattier cuts that are harder to dry out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on February 02, 2024, 11:55:39 AM

It came with one, but I didn't use it last night.  I had not yet looked into what temp they should be so I didn't bother.  Thanks for the tip!  I'll try that next time and see how it goes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 02, 2024, 12:03:54 PM

Yeah, I was just getting in the shower and thought "oh I should have mentioned temp". If you left them in low for ~90 minutes and then did 30 minutes at 350, you might have just overcooked them. Get a chicken breast up to internal temp of 170, and there's nothing you're going to do to save that. It's going to be dry. In fact, when I do a whole chicken, I pull it when the breasts are at 155 and let carryover cooking bring up the rest of the way. If you wait until the internal temp is 160, it'll be 165 or higher when you serve it and dry. 

Two things you need: a good instant-read thermometer, and a good leave-in thermometer. Without testing temp, everything you cook will be guesswork. Being new, that's just going to be frustrating. Even though I've been doing this a while, I'm not a line cook doing 150 steaks a night, so I rely on my thermometers for pretty much everything I cook anyway. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 02, 2024, 12:32:57 PM

I recommend something like this for when you're getting into long smokes.  It's a wireless multi-probe thermometer.  You set one probe in the cooking chamber to measure ambient smoking temperature, and put one (or more) probes into the various meats you're cooking, to have instant access to their temps at all times.

This one has a transmitter that sits on your smoker/grill, and a separate receiver that you can put anywhere in your house, as long as it's within range.  The one I have actually omits the receiver and just uses Wifi or Bluetooth to connect to an app on your phone, so your phone is effectively the receiver and you can remove one piece of new hardware from the equation.

https://www.amazon.com/ThermoPro-Wireless-Digital-Thermometer-Grilling/dp/B08KZR4F23/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=7YNJGWIUVC9H&keywords=4+probe+meat+thermometer&qid=1706895013&sprefix=4+probe+ther%2Caps%2C314&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MikeDeTiger on February 02, 2024, 03:24:12 PM

Just to clarify again, they weren't dry, just a tad bit dryer than I was envisioning.  I was actually very pleased for a first try. 

The Traeger has a thermometer and a LED display that measures the cooking chamber temp at all times, if that's what you're talking about.  I do need to start using the meat probe thermometer thingys, and learn what temps are best for what meats.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 02, 2024, 03:27:42 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on February 02, 2024, 03:24:12 PM

Just to clarify again, they weren't dry, just a tad bit dryer than I was envisioning.  I was actually very pleased for a first try. 

The Traeger has a thermometer and a LED display that measures the cooking chamber temp at all times, if that's what you're talking about.  I do need to start using the meat probe thermometer thingys, and learn what temps are best for what meats. 

Yeah, I was referring to the meat probes not the Traeger cooking chamber probe. 

Having the chamber temp is more important for a stick burner or kamado, or any other smoker that's not automated; the Traeger will take care of the chamber temp for you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 02, 2024, 04:37:32 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on January 30, 2024, 03:26:50 PM

fortunately, the stock market has decided to ignore the wars over there

all-time high again today for the S&P

gasoline did jump a dime in the past couple days - I'm sure there's a good reason

stock market doesn't = economy. stock market basically just reflects rich people's feelings on different companies/industries. it's mostly hype and bullsh*t not tied to any reality whatsoever. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 03, 2024, 02:05:14 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 02, 2024, 03:27:42 PM

Yeah, I was referring to the meat probes not the Traeger cooking chamber probe.

Having the chamber temp is more important for a stick burner or kamado, or any other smoker that's not automated; the Traeger will take care of the chamber temp for you.

I'll take your word for it, like I said I've never used a pellet smoker.

I do know from experience that automated temp sensors like ovens have, can quite frequently be wrong, by as much as 10-20%.  I'd probably want to at least run a separate, precise chamber probe once or twice, to make sure the pellet smoker's temp sensor was correct.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 03, 2024, 07:24:08 AM

Brining is your friend when it comes to chicken.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2024, 09:53:46 AM

buttermilk brine

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 03, 2024, 10:54:07 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 03, 2024, 07:24:08 AM

Brining is your friend when it comes to chicken.

well problem for me when it comes to chicken is that I'd much rather eat steak or pork.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2024, 10:57:28 AM

I know a couple people that won't eat birds of any feather

they are odd ducks

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 03, 2024, 12:28:59 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 02, 2024, 12:32:57 PM

I recommend something like this for when you're getting into long smokes.  It's a wireless multi-probe thermometer.  You set one probe in the cooking chamber to measure ambient smoking temperature, and put one (or more) probes into the various meats you're cooking, to have instant access to their temps at all times.

This one has a transmitter that sits on your smoker/grill, and a separate receiver that you can put anywhere in your house, as long as it's within range.  The one I have actually omits the receiver and just uses Wifi or Bluetooth to connect to an app on your phone, so your phone is effectively the receiver and you can remove one piece of new hardware from the equation.

You techno Rebel - kinda removes the mystique of you being a Pit Master ;D . Not sure if it was Lopez-Alt(Food Lab),Alton Brown or ATK but they liked the instant read sticks - reasoning being that supposedly the probes themselves heat up and may accelerate internal temps. Perhaps the concern was finishing before the proper bark could form - I dunno. Far beyond my talents though - as the only low/slow I do is in the Crock Pot, since Fearless didn't catch this thought I'd do his job for him

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 03, 2024, 01:25:30 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 03, 2024, 12:28:59 PM

You techno Rebel - kinda removes the mystique of you being a Pit Master ;D . Not sure if it was Lopez-Alt(Food Lab),Alton Brown or ATK but they liked the instant read sticks - reasoning being that supposedly the probes themselves heat up and may accelerate internal temps. Perhaps the concern was finishing before the proper bark could form - I dunno. Far beyond my talents though - as the only low/slow I do is in the Crock Pot, since Fearless didn't catch this thought I'd do his job for him

Oh, I'm sure utee also uses an instant read... I know I do. 

The leave-in thermometer is what tells you when it's about time to start monitoring with the instant read. The leave-in isn't necessarily always at the coldest part of a piece of meat so when I'm getting close to temp I'll probe with the instant and gauge what sort of adjustment I need to make. I.e. if the target temp to pull it off the heat (let's say chicken) is 155, when the leave-in reads 150 or so I'll probe a few places to check. If I find a place that's 147, for example, I know not to pull it off until the instant read is closer to 157-158 because the leave-in therm isn't in the coldest part of the meat. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 03, 2024, 01:56:40 PM

Yup, the leave-in just kinda gives you a general idea.  Really it's most useful in measuring The Stall on a brisket.  Some briskets stall for a long time and others almost not at all.  If you're counting on a 2 hour stall and it cruises past 170 in minutes, you know you've got one of THOSE and you need to be on the lookout.

I use the instant read for fowl and for pork tenderloins.  Don't need it on brisket or pork butt, I can tell those just by sticking in a finger-- no lie. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2024, 01:57:34 PM

thermometers are cheating, but less over done meat is a good thing and worth the cheat

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 03, 2024, 02:27:38 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 03, 2024, 01:57:34 PM

thermometers are cheating, but less over done meat is a good thing and worth the cheat

never used a thermometer, but reckon it's probably not a bad idea for pork or chicken- which have a much higher risk of getting you sick if it's not cooked properly than say steak or fish. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 03, 2024, 03:07:03 PM

Pork isn't like it used to be. You can eat it medium/medium-well now.

Chicken... no.

And why are we eating something you can't eat raw? But you can eat a raw egg?

Weird.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2024, 03:19:14 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 03, 2024, 02:27:38 PM

never used a thermometer, but reckon it's probably not a bad idea for pork or chicken- which have a much higher risk of getting you sick if it's not cooked properly than say steak or fish.

underdone I can put back on the heat and fix it
overdone sucks

I've had plenty of underdone pork and poultry 
no problems so far

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 03, 2024, 03:32:07 PM

I "undercook" almost all pork, like tenderloin and pork chops.  Juicier, more tender, better flavor.

But my poultry always gets to proper doneness because the texture of undercooked poultry is disgusting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2024, 03:35:00 PM

a bit rubbery

yup, like my wings cooked well

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 03, 2024, 03:51:01 PM

Yeah, the thermometer seems a little nerdy to me as well. 

Do it caveman style. Cook it until it looks good, then eat it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 03, 2024, 04:03:26 PM

Steak is expensive. Especially when I go to the fancy butcher. 

Why chance screwing it up? 

With a thermometer I get a nice med-rare every time. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 03, 2024, 04:52:10 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 03, 2024, 04:03:26 PM

Steak is expensive. Especially when I go to the fancy butcher.

Why chance screwing it up?

With a thermometer I get a nice med-rare every time.

idk man you cook enough steak you can get pretty damn good at getting the temp right just by touch/feel and timing inside your head. I hit medium rare pretty much 99% of the time. rare instances I don't it's just a notch below medium rare on the more rare side- which doesn't bother me at all.

take it out of the fridge for at least an hour or two so it's not ice cold, pat the sob dry obsessively until it's completely dry, then rub it very lightly with extra virgin olive oil to act as a binder for the seasoning, season it heavily with coarse kosher sea salt & freshly cracked black pepper and very lightly with garlic powder- that's it- mop up all that seasoning and really work it in- make sure it's on the fat cap and all sides too- then throw it in a ripping hot cast iron/stainless steel with a neutral oil and turn it as much as you have to in order to get an even crispy crust-  get that fat cap on it's side and tilt the pan and crisp that bitch up and render out the fat, then kill the heat and throw in lightly crushed garlic cloves still in the skin, thyme, shallot, and a lot of high quality grass fed unsalted butter and baste that steak off the heat for a good minute or two- back on the cutting board and let it rest. one of the easiest, most simple things there is to make and by far the best way of making a steak if you ask me- grill, oven/broiler, smoker, whatever. only thing better is sous vide and vacuuming sealing the steak with crushed garlic clove, butter, thyme inside- then searing it off once it's done cooking in the water in the cast iron/stainless steel and basting to get the crust. but who has time for all that jam?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 03, 2024, 04:57:17 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 03, 2024, 03:07:03 PM

Pork isn't like it used to be. You can eat it medium/medium-well now.

Chicken... no.

And why are we eating something you can't eat raw? But you can eat a raw egg?

Weird.

I still don't take chances on pork. has to be done nearly perfectly or I ain't eating it.

chicken is the worst thing to cook if you ask me. has to be absolutely perfect or I absolutely won't eat it. and once it's overcooked and goes dry- it's basically like eating rubber.

I eat chicken. I like chicken. But could do without it. Certainly don't love it.

I LOVE steak. And I think I might actually love pork even more. Both are just WAY more flavorful than chicken.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 03, 2024, 05:06:22 PM

Figuring out you can cook pork butt like low and slow or do it like a steak was a game changer for me. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 03, 2024, 10:57:15 PM

Oh my God, someone dared comedy that reached across the aisle?

MAGA is now going to boycott Babylon Bee, and presumably every Biden supporter is incapable of laughing at anti-left humor, so that site is done

https://twitter.com/TheBabylonBee/status/1753946479486480812?t=79a6LzuNy3QEZGA5PfNOpw&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 04, 2024, 09:52:05 AM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on February 03, 2024, 03:51:01 PM

Yeah, the thermometer seems a little nerdy to me as well.

Do it caveman style. Cook it until it looks good, then eat it.

Yeah, precision is nerdy.  :67:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 04, 2024, 10:56:06 AM

Exactly. 

It's the sabermetrics of cooking. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 04, 2024, 01:29:40 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 03, 2024, 03:32:07 PM

I "undercook" almost all pork, like tenderloin and pork chops.  Juicier, more tender, better flavor.

I haven't done a T'Loin in a while I used AB's method get a good med-hi heat going then every minute and a half roll it 4X - perfect and almost as good as a rotisserie chicken.Usually when they come in 2 packs twine them together tapered ends in 
:character0029:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 04, 2024, 04:01:00 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on February 04, 2024, 10:56:06 AM

Exactly.

It's the sabermetrics of cooking.

It's kind of funny.....the game of baseball has been described by many as perfect - the 90' between bases, pitchers' needing to throw hard and be over the plate enough so that they don't create a ton of baserunners, batters' ranging from drag-bunting speedsters to muscle-bound sluggers, etc.

It's not sabermetricians' fault that they revealed baseball is actually not a great spectator sport, when maximized for winning.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on February 05, 2024, 10:56:50 AM

Quote from: ELA on February 03, 2024, 10:57:15 PM

Oh my God, someone dared comedy that reached across the aisle?

MAGA is now going to boycott Babylon Bee, and presumably every Biden supporter is incapable of laughing at anti-left humor, so that site is done

https://twitter.com/TheBabylonBee/status/1753946479486480812?t=79a6LzuNy3QEZGA5PfNOpw&s=19

Not sure if it's 50/50, but they pick on "conservative" issues pretty often.  Honestly, I think it's just easier to pick on the left most days.  

I quoted "conservative" because I don't agree with many of the policies of people who paint themselves as conservative.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on February 06, 2024, 12:27:38 AM

Why was there a cnn headline 'Chapman finally gets the standing ovation she deserves.'?

Why are people memory holing or are otherwise clueless of the beautiful song's tremendous popularity 35 years ago and Chapman's multiple Grammy wins in 1989? You know the year that other chick was born?

The ultimate two movies on one screen moment.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2024, 02:17:57 AM

Quote from: Gigem on February 05, 2024, 10:56:50 AM

Not sure if it's 50/50, but they pick on "conservative" issues pretty often.  Honestly, I think it's just easier to pick on the left most days. 

I quoted "conservative" because I don't agree with many of the policies of people who paint themselves as conservative. 

The radical left are young and fringe.
The radical right owns their party.

Big difference.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 06, 2024, 08:16:18 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2024, 02:17:57 AM

The radical left are young and fringe.
The radical right owns their party.

Um no the CCP,Suckerman or Bozos maybe but they are a completely different group of shit stains

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2024, 08:54:38 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2024, 02:17:57 AM

The radical left are young and fringe.
The radical right owns their party.

Big difference.

You could not be more wrong.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on February 06, 2024, 11:14:37 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2024, 08:54:38 AM

You could not be more wrong.

The Squad never deposed the Speaker of the House.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2024, 11:41:09 AM

Probably wouldn't have had the votes to do it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2024, 06:46:40 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2024, 11:41:09 AM

Probably wouldn't have had the votes to do it.

Exactly........which goes against your retort.  lol

Only-Trumpers run the GOP.  

What radical Dem has done anything?  Elizabeth Warren fell off a cliff.  Bernie's gone.  AOC doesn't actually do anything major.  She's just a caricature to fear-monger.  No actual power.  

Meanwhile, Trump has 37% of people who would vote for him no matter what.  And they'll want him to go for a 3rd term.  No Rep. candidate with actual policy ideas has a chance.  Actual governing is not even a factor, they just vote for the celebrity with crass verbal exchanges.  

Please tell me how I'm wrong besides saying "you're wrong."  Back it up with SOMETHING.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 06, 2024, 07:39:28 PM

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/02/06/espn-fox-and-warner-bros-discovery-to-launch-joint-sports-streaming-platform-this-year.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 06, 2024, 08:19:38 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2024, 02:17:57 AM

The radical left are young and fringe.
The radical right owns their party.

Big difference.

yeah, so this isn't true. at all.

the big donors (billionaires, Wall Street, AIPAC, US multi-nationals) own both parties.

The nutjob left infiltrates Dems only up to a certain extent. Trump wing infiltrates the Repubs only up to a certain extent. The Republicans have tried everything possible to not have Trump win the primary and be the nominee of the party. It hasn't worked. Obviously. Why? Because a lot of the stuff Trump says lands with the voters- and pretty much everyone else running against him was a flaccid penis. 

There is a lot more to a political party than a President or Presidential primary nominee. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 06, 2024, 08:20:47 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on February 06, 2024, 11:14:37 AM

The Squad never deposed the Speaker of the House.

the squad never even tried....they are nothing but a pack of frauds led by the biggest fraud of them all, their MIC (that's moron in charge) AOC.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 06, 2024, 08:22:22 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2024, 11:41:09 AM

Probably wouldn't have had the votes to do it.

well they never even tried so it's a moot point. they 100000% could've swung their dicks and tried to extract something from Pelosi to secure their votes. they didn't even do that. AOC votes in lock step with Pelosi (the establishment) on every major issue and even calls Pelosi "Mama Bear". Yuck.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 06, 2024, 08:26:57 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2024, 06:46:40 PM

Exactly........which goes against your retort.  lol

Only-Trumpers run the GOP. 

What radical Dem has done anything?  Elizabeth Warren fell off a cliff.  Bernie's gone.  AOC doesn't actually do anything major.  She's just a caricature to fear-monger.  No actual power. 

Meanwhile, Trump has 37% of people who would vote for him no matter what.  And they'll want him to go for a 3rd term.  No Rep. candidate with actual policy ideas has a chance.  Actual governing is not even a factor, they just vote for the celebrity with crass verbal exchanges. 

Please tell me how I'm wrong besides saying "you're wrong."  Back it up with SOMETHING.

Elizabeth Warren was never a radical Dem, she used to be a Republican and switched to the Democratic party and has been nothing but a Democratic party-line toter loyal to the party above all else. Bernie was never even a Dem, he caucused with them. And he sold his soul to support that party because: Trump bad and he didn't want to be viewed as the next Ralph Nader, even though the Dem party screwed him over time and time again and flat out rigged it for Hilary and cheated him out of the nomination in 2016. 

Trump will have people voting for him no matter what so long as the Republican field is as weak and pathetic as it has been post W. Seriously...nothing but a field of sh*tstains in 2016, 2020, and 2024- which is why we have Trump. And where is this 3rd term BULLSH*T everyone spouts about Trump? Lol. Would never happen. Not changing that constitutional amendment any time soon....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 07, 2024, 07:42:15 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2024, 06:46:40 PM

Exactly........which goes against your retort.  lol

Only-Trumpers run the GOP. 

What radical Dem has done anything?  Elizabeth Warren fell off a cliff.  Bernie's gone.  AOC doesn't actually do anything major.  She's just a caricature to fear-monger.  No actual power. 

Meanwhile, Trump has 37% of people who would vote for him no matter what.  And they'll want him to go for a 3rd term.  No Rep. candidate with actual policy ideas has a chance.  Actual governing is not even a factor, they just vote for the celebrity with crass verbal exchanges. 

Please tell me how I'm wrong besides saying "you're wrong."  Back it up with SOMETHING.

I was not talking about politicians.

When the radical right walks into the nation's capital (doing no real harm, taking selfies) they get prosecuted. Some are still sitting in jail waiting to be charged. 3 years later.

When the radical left burns down cities, courthouses, police stations, it's OK.

(Something I lived through, fearing for my life and my wife's life.)


(https://i.imgur.com/hf06CTJ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 07, 2024, 06:22:09 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/city-home-americas-new-favorite-pizza-check-out

This is what I’ve been trying to say for a long time. This is Detroit style Pizza is the bomb.  Especially Buddy’s

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 07, 2024, 06:38:14 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 06, 2024, 08:20:47 PM

the squad never even tried....they are nothing but a pack of frauds led by the biggest fraud of them all, their MIC (that's moron in charge) AOC. 

See?

Just a caricature to use as target practice.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 07, 2024, 06:40:49 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 06, 2024, 08:19:38 PM

yeah, so this isn't true. at all.

the big donors (billionaires, Wall Street, AIPAC, US multi-nationals) own both parties.

The nutjob left infiltrates Dems only up to a certain extent. Trump wing infiltrates the Repubs only up to a certain extent. The Republicans have tried everything possible to not have Trump win the primary and be the nominee of the party. It hasn't worked. Obviously. Why? Because a lot of the stuff Trump says lands with the voters- and pretty much everyone else running against him was a flaccid penis.

There is a lot more to a political party than a President or Presidential primary nominee.

Duh.

But look at your examples:
the nutjob left has done nothing and has no power
the nutjob right is Trump and has all their power

The Republicans fighting against Trump (all 7 of them) have failed (again).  So they're irrelevant.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 07, 2024, 06:43:44 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 07, 2024, 07:42:15 AM

I was not talking about politicians.

When the radical right walks into the nation's capital (doing no real harm, taking selfies)

If you believe this, you're lost.
If you're just saying it, you don't warrant respect.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2024, 10:06:49 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 07, 2024, 06:43:44 PM

If you believe this, you're lost.
If you're just saying it, you don't warrant respect.

First off, OAM calling 847 lost is gold. Thanks for the morning chuckle.

Secondly, I do not and will never condone the actions taken that day.

Lastly, the fact that you chose to not comment on my part 2 tells me you condone it.


(https://i.imgur.com/e0a1i84.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2024, 10:08:02 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 07, 2024, 06:22:09 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/city-home-americas-new-favorite-pizza-check-out

This is what I’ve been trying to say for a long time. This is Detroit style Pizza is the bomb.  Especially Buddy’s

I'm gonna have to try and find a place that has it. It almost looks like a Sicilian style.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 08, 2024, 10:25:42 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 07, 2024, 06:22:09 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/city-home-americas-new-favorite-pizza-check-out

This is what I’ve been trying to say for a long time. This is Detroit style Pizza is the bomb.  Especially Buddy’s

Buddy's is great.  It's funny, I never heard of it called "Detroit style" when I lived in Michigan.  I bet at least 4 Detroit style places have popped up around Pittsburgh in the past few years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 08, 2024, 12:16:43 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 07, 2024, 06:22:09 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/city-home-americas-new-favorite-pizza-check-out

This is what I’ve been trying to say for a long time. This is Detroit style Pizza is the bomb.  Especially Buddy’s

Oh yeah, back in 2011 a couple of brothers from Detroit opened a Detroit-style pizza place in Austin, named Via313.  It was just a food trailer on 6th Street, but since then they've grown and opened multiple other locations in town.  It's great, one of my favorite places in Austin now. 

Quote from: ELA on February 08, 2024, 10:25:42 AM

Buddy's is great.  It's funny, I never heard of it called "Detroit style" when I lived in Michigan. 

Well you know, in China they don't call it "Chinese food" it's just "food." So there ya have it. :)

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2024, 10:08:02 AM

I'm gonna have to try and find a place that has it. It almost looks like a Sicilian style.

I don't know about any truly local places that you might have access to, but Jet's pizza is a national fast-food-pizza chain that makes a decent version of it.

Pizza Hut or Domino's tried to make a version but theirs was... not good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2024, 12:39:11 PM

I've heard about Jet's. There's one about 10 miles from here. Maybe I'll check it out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2024, 12:56:39 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2024, 12:39:11 PM

I've heard about Jet's. There's one about 10 miles from here. Maybe I'll check it out.

Try their square meat lovers version.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2024, 01:01:19 PM

I can get a great burger at a lot of bars around here for $15 or less. Big Mac combo here is around $13. I can see why their sales are not up to snuff.

McDonald's Big Mac combo now 'unaffordable' for those on low incomes as prices soar (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/mcdonald-s-big-mac-combo-now-unaffordable-for-those-on-low-incomes-as-prices-soar/ar-BB1hYZGk?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=7a7d6114f3194f79ab3b7c873c6702cc&ei=14)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 08, 2024, 01:28:03 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 08, 2024, 12:16:43 PM

Well you know, in China they don't call it "Chinese food" it's just "food." So there ya have it. :)

Ha, I thought of that as soon as I wrote it.

Per Wikipedia, which whatever, it is a recent thing, and was for a while referred to as Sicilian style

Detroit-style pizza was developed in 1946 at Buddy's Rendezvous, a former speakeasy owned by Gus and Anna Guerra located at the corner of Six Mile Road and Conant Street in Detroit. Sources disagree whether the original Sicilian-style recipe was based on Anna Guerra's mother's recipe for sfincione or a recipe from one of the restaurant's employees, a Sicilian woman named Connie Piccinato. The recipe created a "focaccia-like crust" and the restaurant baked it in blue steel pans available from local automotive suppliers because baking pans available at the time were not appropriate for the dish. The steel pans were made by Dover Parkersburg in the 1930s and 1940s and were originally used as drip trays or to hold small parts or scrap metal in automobile factories. Some 50- to 75-year-old pans are still in use.

The restaurant was later renamed Buddy's Pizza. In 1953, the Guerras sold it and opened the Cloverleaf in Eastpointe, Michigan. Former Buddy's employee Louis Tourtois made pizzas at Shield's before founding Loui's Pizza in Hazel Park, Michigan. The Detroit News called Tourtois the "king of pizzas" in 1978. National chain Jet's, local chain Shield's, and Luigi's the Original of Harrison Township are other locally-notable restaurants serving the style.

Buddy's Pizza chief brand officer Wesley Pikula, who started at Buddy's as a busboy in the 1980s, said that he had never heard the term "Detroit-style" before the 1980s when a trade magazine used it and that even afterward it was seldom used except in national trade articles. As late as 2007, some local media were referring to the style as "Sicilian-style". Some makers of Detroit-style pizza in other areas questioned whether to call their pizza by that name, as "sometimes people have negative thoughts about Detroit."

The Detroit-style pizza was popular throughout the Detroit area but until the 2010s was not often found at restaurants outside the area. In 2011 two Detroit brothers opened a Detroit-style pizza restaurant in Austin, Texas, using the "Detroit-style" name as a point of differentiation. In 2012, a New York restaurateur created a pizza he called "Detroit-style", though he had never visited Detroit, using focaccia dough, mozzarella, and ricotta

In 2012, local restaurant cook Shawn Randazzo won the Las Vegas International Pizza Expo world championship with a Detroit-style pizza, and according to pizza educator Tony Gemignani, the reaction was immediate. "After he won, I must have had six phone calls from operators, from guys who are big in the industry, saying, 'Give me a recipe for Detroit. How do I figure this out?'"

According to Serious Eats, "in early 2016 or so, everyone seemed to be talking about it or writing about it or opening up restaurants devoted to it. Trade journal Pizza Today wrote in 2018 that "Perhaps no pizza style has entered the public consciousness in quite the way that Detroit-style pan pizza has."[16] Trade journal Restaurant Hospitality said the style had become popular on Instagram.

In 2019, Esquire called the style "one of the hottest food trends across America", and both the Detroit Free Press and Eater said Detroit-style pizza was "having its moment". Eater wrote that pizzerias offering the style were spreading across the US, but that the new pizzas were different:

On one side are the local Detroit pizzerias and restaurants devoted to their normcore, family-restaurant roots with toppings directly on the crust, a layer of processed brick cheese, and sauce on top. Then there are the "artisanal" square pizzas, with their aged doughs, organic toppings, unprocessed cheeses, and "frico" crust. These designer square slices are sometimes baked in a wood-fired oven and often served on Instagrammable metal trays in perfect lighting—a departure from the checkered tablecloths, no-frills boat drinks, and generous displays of bocce ball plaques at Buddy's. And in this new era of Detroit-style pizza, it's this photogenic version that many Americans are discovering first.

Eater said the artisanal trend was slow to catch on in Detroit. Along with the Coney Island hot dog and the Boston cooler, the traditional Detroit-style is one of Detroit's iconic local foods.

According to a 2021 forecast report, Yelp.com noted that Detroit-style pizza was national and reported that reviews mentioning "Detroit-style pizza" were up 52%. In 2023, Detroit-based author Karen Dybis published Detroit-Style Pizza: A Doughtown History covering three waves of Detroit-style pizza, ranging from the original innovators up through current pizzerias around the count

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 08, 2024, 06:59:19 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2024, 01:01:19 PM

I can get a great burger at a lot of bars around here for $15 or less. Big Mac combo here is around $13. I can see why their sales are not up to snuff.

McDonald's Big Mac combo now 'unaffordable' for those on low incomes as prices soar (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/mcdonald-s-big-mac-combo-now-unaffordable-for-those-on-low-incomes-as-prices-soar/ar-BB1hYZGk?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=7a7d6114f3194f79ab3b7c873c6702cc&ei=14)

A California guy I work with says they have a different higher minimum wage for fast food workers 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 08, 2024, 07:03:56 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 08, 2024, 06:59:19 PM

A California guy I work with says they have a different higher minimum wage for fast food workers

Coming soon. Will go from $16/hr (I believe) to $20/hr starting Apr 1. 

It'll be really good for the workers who survive after 50% of all fast food restaurants fail over the next 2-3 years because people can't afford to eat there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2024, 07:45:12 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 08, 2024, 07:03:56 PM

Coming soon. Will go from $16/hr (I believe) to $20/hr starting Apr 1.

It'll be really good for the workers who survive after 50% of all fast food restaurants fail over the next 2-3 years because people can't afford to eat there.

It's gonna happen.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 09, 2024, 07:46:45 AM

healthy alternatives

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2024, 07:55:59 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 09, 2024, 07:46:45 AM

healthy alternatives

At home, maybe. Certainly not eating out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2024, 07:57:43 AM

In France (!!!), you order off a kiosk at McDs, and the burgers are smaller than ours, not that much more expensive.  They are quite popular there.

I think a LOT of fast food prep can be done robotically with zero humans, maybe one to supervise.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2024, 08:14:51 AM

There are kiosks McD's here. 

Robots are next.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2024, 08:27:05 AM

Yeah, I've noted kiosks here as well, but you can still order at the counter.

And it's not very cheap any more.

Dining out seems to have inflated more than anything else I use.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2024, 08:42:24 AM

For now, you can. I think that will end soon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2024, 08:44:02 AM

I expect a new kind of fast food place to crop up that is almost entirely robotic, maybe one human being involved.  Maybe burgers and fries etc., somewhat limited menu.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 09, 2024, 09:42:07 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/KCiBQlW.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 09, 2024, 09:50:37 AM

Joe Rogan signs a $250 million deal with Spotify after his initial $100 million deal expired. 

By the way I believe those deals are a baseline, the minimum Spotify paid/will pay him. And it’s a straight licensing deal, which means they don’t own shit- he owns all his content. 

Dude has literally the biggest media platform on planet earth and it’s wild. I always remembered him as a shitty standup comic and the fear factor guy. Now he’s the biggest thing in media. Almost like the new Howard Stern but 10x bigger than Stern ever was.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2024, 09:53:57 AM

I have heard of Joe Rogan but know basically nothing about him.  I thought he was a pro "rastler" or somesuch.

I'm last to know.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 09, 2024, 09:55:41 AM

haven’t watched it yet because it just dropped, but Tucker Carlson interviews Russian President/Dictator Vladimir Putin. 

Love the fact that everyone in the establishment corporate fake news media is freaking out over it. No doubt borne mostly out of jealousy, as they have all requested to interview Putin repeatedly and he’s denied them. 

Whatever your stance is on the war or on Putin, the idea that it’s not newsworthy and you shouldn’t interview a head of state of one of the most powerful nations on earth is absolutely retarded. Of course any US newscaster/fake tv journalist actor should interview him if given the chance…. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2024, 10:04:03 AM

Do you think Putin said anything at all we couldn't predict ahead of time?

In Tucker Carlson interview, Putin urges US to push Ukraine to talks | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/russia-putin-carlson-interview-0cad1c98255cb17953326de7ff8509b7)

This is obviously a brief AP "summary", but it's not as if Putin appears to have said anything new or notable.

Putin tells Tucker Carlson Russia has no interest in attacking Poland or Latvia | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-rare-us-interview-says-russia-has-no-interest-attacking-poland-or-latvia-2024-02-09/)


I'm fascinated by how many folks in the US base their "opinions" almost exclusively on the rantings of a single individual I won't name here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on February 09, 2024, 10:39:42 AM

You would do well to ignore Tucker Carlson entirely.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2024, 10:51:16 AM

I do well, indeed.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 09, 2024, 10:58:51 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on February 09, 2024, 10:39:42 AM

You would do well to ignore Tucker Carlson entirely.

Yeah, he’s not a real newsman like that tranny Rachel Maddow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 09, 2024, 11:19:33 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 09, 2024, 10:58:51 AM

Yeah, he’s not a real newsman like that tranny Rachel Maddow.

I don't give a lick about Rachel Maddow, couldn't even spot her in a lineup.  But why do you think it's okay to use the word "tranny" as an intentional insult?  1975 called and wants its bigotry back.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2024, 11:38:29 AM

I view any and all "opinionators" as entertainers.  They figure out what their audience wants to hear and feeds it to them.  On occasion, some will throw out some non sequitur, but I think that is to get noticed.

I'll READ opinion pieces, some can be thought provoking, but I don't need or want someone to just parrot what I already think.

They are all divisive, so far as I know, and look to drive division, and ratings.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on February 09, 2024, 11:51:08 AM

Opinions are like rectums. Everyone's got one, and they're all full of fecal matter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2024, 12:02:22 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on February 09, 2024, 11:51:08 AM

Opinions are like rectums. Everyone's got one, and they're all full of fecal matter.

well thats just like your opinion man

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 09, 2024, 12:03:13 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/iu7ynPB.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2024, 12:05:43 PM

Speaking of underrated movies ... first time I saw that I thought it was weird and not good, then I sorta got it.

They had Oppenheimer on the plane, my wife and I watched it, neither of us liked it much.  I realize it wasn't meant to be a documentary, OK, but it wondered all over the place, to me, and I didn't understand that secondary character at all.  The sound quality isn't great on a plane even with my noise cancellers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on February 09, 2024, 12:15:32 PM

Oppenheimer was a biopic, a treatise on nuclear weaponry, and a courtroom drama all rolled into one. I agree, even in the theater it was hard to keep track of.

Robert Downey Jr. couldn't have played the instigator if he hadn't spent the previous 10+ years playing Tony Starke.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 09, 2024, 12:27:05 PM

I actually think Lebowski is pretty overrated.  It's among my least favorite Coen Brothers movies.

Raising Arizona, on the other hand, is pure brilliance!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2024, 12:46:52 PM

It probably is over rated by some, I agree.  Good quotes though at times.

RA was quite good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 09, 2024, 12:47:55 PM

In unrelated news, Happy National Pizza Day.

Seems like we were JUST talking about pizza yesterday.  How topical.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2024, 02:51:28 PM

So, I went to McD's today for a Big Mac meal. I allow it once per month. I love that sandwich.

$8.99 was the price. About $9.50 with tax.

This location has signs for pay of $14/hour to start.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 09, 2024, 03:04:15 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 09, 2024, 08:27:05 AM

Yeah, I've noted kiosks here as well, but you can still order at the counter.

can't order at the counter at McD's in Nebraska, South Dakota, and Iowa

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 09, 2024, 03:51:46 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 09, 2024, 12:27:05 PM

I actually think Lebowski is pretty overrated.  It's among my least favorite Coen Brothers movies.

Raising Arizona, on the other hand, is pure brilliance!

Thank you.  Fargo is my all time favorite movie.  And I love just about everything they've done.  But I've always thought Lebowski is just good

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 09, 2024, 03:52:24 PM

https://twitter.com/JudiciaryGOP/status/1755764130374693270?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2024, 03:52:51 PM

That's gold.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: DunkingDan on February 09, 2024, 05:30:30 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 09, 2024, 12:02:22 PM

well thats just like your opinion man

(https://i.imgur.com/6rac7BI.jpg)
~:P

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 09, 2024, 06:11:16 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 09, 2024, 12:27:05 PM

I actually think Lebowski is pretty overrated.  It's among my least favorite Coen Brothers movies.

Raising Arizona, on the other hand, is pure brilliance!

The fight scene in the trailer where Cage's going over his head with fists clenched and rips his knuckles on the the stucco ceiling and Goodman pummels his face - gold,jerry, gold. Speaking of over rated Seinfeld definitely is i was going to start a sit com Thread then the movie one came out

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 10, 2024, 07:17:54 AM

Biden's rough week highlights his biggest vulnerability in the campaign: his age : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2024/02/10/1230591708/biden-age-special-counsel-report-classified-documents)


Shirely we could find someone somewhere better?  Things are broken.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 10, 2024, 07:53:50 AM

Things have been broken for 24 years but are now more broke than ever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 10, 2024, 09:29:49 AM

Atlanta BeltLine Design and Construction Updates: January 2024 // Atlanta Beltline (https://beltline.org/2024/02/01/atlanta-beltline-design-and-construction-updates-january-2024/?fbclid=IwAR3FbDG8GRuFZVBF_8siiEMFrYe1bS4KRaG4VEfrITfzeE3LFHKkJDPb1vg)

The local Beltline is making good progress, which I find is a good thing.  A section near us is almost complete, much of it is complete, we may stroll over today if rain holds off.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 10, 2024, 09:35:26 AM

I was driving thru Des Moines on Thursday afternoon

wide load truck was jammin things up a bit
I noticed it was carrying what appeared to be a refurbished BART rail car.

it was headed West - seemed a bit odd

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 10, 2024, 09:40:20 AM

The old MARTA cars are being dumped in the ocean for reefs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 10, 2024, 09:50:27 AM

Could become tiny homes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 10, 2024, 09:51:10 AM

recycling at it's finest

If I dumped it in there I'd be arrested - probably a felony

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 10, 2024, 10:21:07 AM

I'm sure they need various approvals, in addition to "cleaning out" the cars of anything toxic.  The new cars look quite a bit better, but are pricey (duh).

(https://i.imgur.com/hbgtqfl.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/iR6xSw8.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 10, 2024, 10:50:13 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 09, 2024, 02:51:28 PM

So, I went to McD's today for a Big Mac meal. I allow it once per month. I love that sandwich.

$8.99 was the price. About $9.50 with tax.

This location has signs for pay of $14/hour to start.

I only order it when it's buy one, get another for $1.00.
The best thing about McDonalds is that it's the only fast food place that has cheap large drinks.  $1.39.  Everywhere else is $3.00+ for whatever reason.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 10, 2024, 11:00:20 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 10, 2024, 10:21:07 AM

I'm sure they need various approvals, in addition to "cleaning out" the cars of anything toxic.  The new cars look quite a bit better, but are pricey (duh).

Seems an expensive ride to the reef
also seems there would be significant scrap metal worth

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 10, 2024, 02:25:11 PM

A question of great social impact for y’all.  And one that has come up several times recently in social settings at my home, with visitors:

Is better to put silverware handles up, or handles down, in the dishwasher?

What say you?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 10, 2024, 03:15:57 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 10, 2024, 02:25:11 PM

A question of great social impact for y’all.  And one that has come up several times recently in social settings at my home, with visitors:

Is better to put silverware handles up, or handles down, in the dishwasher?

What say you?

I always thought Handles down was the correct way, though I'm not sure why

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on February 10, 2024, 03:29:21 PM

I do handles down, because it is easier and I do all the dishes. But handles up is probably more sanitary.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 10, 2024, 03:36:33 PM

Dishwashers are stupid.  You have to clean them 80% of the way just to put the dishes in them.  Just do the final 20% yourself.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 10, 2024, 04:01:36 PM

Handles down. 

My theory is by putting the "dirty" parts (fork tines, spoon bowl, knife blade) up above the level of the top of the basket will maximize water/soap contact with those parts. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 10, 2024, 04:14:52 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 10, 2024, 03:36:33 PM

Dishwashers are stupid.  You have to clean them 80% of the way just to put the dishes in them.  Just do the final 20% yourself.

Just like I learned in the restaurant business-- that machine is the dish sanitizer.  YOU are the dish washer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 10, 2024, 05:11:01 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 10, 2024, 04:01:36 PM

Handles down.

My theory is by putting the "dirty" parts (fork tines, spoon bowl, knife blade) up above the level of the top of the basket will maximize water/soap contact with those parts.

Ed Zachery

Trust the science

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 10, 2024, 05:18:30 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 10, 2024, 05:11:01 PM

Ed Zachery

Trust the science

But then you put yer grubby meat hooks on the usable part of the silverware when you unload it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Entropy on February 10, 2024, 05:44:43 PM

handles up... why grab what will be touching food?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 10, 2024, 06:23:26 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 10, 2024, 05:18:30 PM

But then you put yer grubby meat hooks on the usable part of the silverware when you unload it.

wash your grubby meat hooks before unloading
your plates, bowls and other usable things need to be unloaded too

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 10, 2024, 08:31:49 PM

https://youtu.be/nK1ckwEo5Bg?t=407

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 10, 2024, 09:47:36 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 10, 2024, 08:31:49 PM

https://youtu.be/nK1ckwEo5Bg?t=407

Nubbz- that dude talks a lot like you write your posts.  That’s not you is it?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 10, 2024, 10:49:25 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 10, 2024, 05:18:30 PM

But then you put yer grubby meat hooks on the usable part of the silverware when you unload it.

Builds immunity.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2024, 05:15:01 AM

Haley slams Trump after he hit her over absence of deployed husband | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4460858-haley-slams-trump-after-he-hit-her-over-absence-of-deployed-husband/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 11, 2024, 08:04:53 AM

So, he really didn't hit her

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 11, 2024, 08:32:04 AM

Should stay off of twitter... or whatever.

Probably everyone should.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 11, 2024, 08:39:10 AM

how long do we need to keep referencing as "previously known as Twit"?

someone may have screwed up the renaming

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2024, 08:40:16 AM

It is dumb, to me, though I suspect some parts of "X" are useful to some folks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 11, 2024, 08:42:00 AM

and Haley really didn't slam Trump

the entire headline is BS except the "deployed husband"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2024, 08:45:36 AM

“Michael is deployed serving our country, something you know nothing about,” Haley said (https://twitter.com/nikkihaley/status/1756434033108549955?s=46&t=ektXd67_6ZztJYFn1shVzg) in a post on X, the platform formerly known as Twitter. “Someone who continually disrespects the sacrifices of military families has no business being commander in chief.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 11, 2024, 09:00:39 AM

I've said this many times before and I'll say it again after the conventions:

330 million people and these are our two choices?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2024, 09:19:29 AM

It is truly hard to believe, our allies and enemies probably think the same, though some are in similar shape.

I got an earful about French politics on our trip and it's not looking good there either.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 11, 2024, 10:27:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 11, 2024, 05:15:01 AM

Haley slams Trump after he hit her over absence of deployed husband | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4460858-haley-slams-trump-after-he-hit-her-over-absence-of-deployed-husband/)

she should probably just shut the fk up....and she should have already been done drop out. what a delusional out of touch egotistical brain dead bitch and billionaire ball-licker sell out corporate establishment shill she is. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 11, 2024, 10:29:13 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 11, 2024, 09:19:29 AM

It is truly hard to believe, our allies and enemies probably think the same, though some are in similar shape.

I got an earful about French politics on our trip and it's not looking good there either.

our allies and enemies don't want to see Trump. they will actually have someone formidable to go up against. they want the senile geriatric fk who shits his diapers and doesn't know where he is to stay in office so they can continue to take advantage of the united states of america.  Biden has been the best thing that has ever happened to our enemies and "allies" who wish to see us slip. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2024, 10:38:16 AM

To me anyway, Trump's comments were ill advised, all too typical, pointless, and another example of how negative he is at heart.  His actual "proposals" are to drill drill drill and close the border, which I guess plays well with his base.  Maybe he'll "ban Muslims from entering while he's at it.

Meanwhile, the US today has record high oil production, and it's up to the drilling companies to drill, or not, usually depending on pricing.  As for closing the border, I can't even imagine what is meant by that.  Mexico today is our largest trading partner.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 11, 2024, 10:53:25 AM

I'd rather we didn't get too far into the weeds on this.

I will say that I don't think "drill drill drill" is correct. It's more about energy independence rather than begging the Saudis to produce more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 11, 2024, 10:53:41 AM

we really don't need to be "trading" human beings (cheap labor)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 11, 2024, 12:33:32 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 11, 2024, 09:00:39 AM

I've said this many times before and I'll say it again after the conventions:

330 million people and these are our two choices?

or the old saying there are 50 contestants for Miss America and 2 for the POTUS? :017:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 11, 2024, 12:36:30 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 11, 2024, 05:15:01 AM

Haley slams Trump after he hit her over absence of deployed husband | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4460858-haley-slams-trump-after-he-hit-her-over-absence-of-deployed-husband/)

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 11, 2024, 10:27:14 AM

she should probably just shut the fk up....and she should have already been done drop out. what a delusional out of touch egotistical brain dead bitch and billionaire ball-licker sell out corporate establishment shill she is.

Why don't you clean trump's cack out of your eye sockets already.Her husband is serving did you or Trump? What the hell did the red headed step child even open his blow hole regarding that for? She has ripped Obama on how his policies fell far short of the talk. Also she was a child of legal immigrants but is in favor of strong immigration policies. She also voted against a Boeing when she was on their BoD for them about receiving a stimulus package favoring them during the covid 19 - she resigned. So at least she has to have some scruples. And her husband is stationed over seas,so what's that asshole's point about him? Haley's have been married 25yrs what's the longest the redheaded step child donnie has stayed committed to one woman? His next wife hasn't been born yet.You got all the answers why don't you run?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 11, 2024, 01:56:43 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 11, 2024, 10:38:16 AM

To me anyway, Trump's comments were ill advised, all too typical, pointless, and another example of how negative he is at heart.  His actual "proposals" are to drill drill drill and close the border, which I guess plays well with his base.  Maybe he'll "ban Muslims from entering while he's at it.

Meanwhile, the US today has record high oil production, and it's up to the drilling companies to drill, or not, usually depending on pricing.  As for closing the border, I can't even imagine what is meant by that.  Mexico today is our largest trading partner.

Trump doesn't just go on the attack for fun. He's an egomaniac- if someone strokes his ego, he loves them. Someone attacks him- well he hits back 100x harder as most psychopaths do. And she has been attacking him non-stop, all in a pathetic attempt to win a nomination she has a less than zero shot of winning. She's nothing but joke. She's getting crushed in all the polls- she's down by like 38 points in her own state, she lost 2.5x to 1 in Nevada to NONE OF THE ABOVE. She's an establishment right-wing war hawk shill being propped up by the billionaires she boot licks for. Nothing more. 

And closing the border is exactly what it sounds like...trying to stop mass illegal immigration from Mexico. And it's not like all of the illegals crossing are Mexican. The Chinese are the fastest growing set of peoples crossing into the border. And of course there are plenty of other people from Central and South American countries coming in through Mexico.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 11, 2024, 02:02:43 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 11, 2024, 10:53:25 AM

I'd rather we didn't get too far into the weeds on this.

I will say that I don't think "drill drill drill" is correct. It's more about energy independence rather than begging the Saudis to produce more.

it's not even so much about energy independence. it's more diplomatic competence. having the ability to get the Saudis to cut-back on oil production when you want them to is just as important as getting them to ramp up production when you want them to. and unfortunately our senile geriatric president shits-his-diapers has alienated the saudis to the point where they are now making deals to trade their oil in other currencies and continually embarrass him on the worlds stage, continually give him the finger for the entire world to see and basically do not co-operate on anything in the US interest, and that relationship was literally the complete opposite under Trump.

saudis trading their oil in US dollars exclusively and ramping production up or down based on when it benefits us is vital to US world economic dominance and our national security. President Shits-his diapers has done so much damage to that relationship in under 4 years- that it's downright insane. how can someone fk it up that bad in such a short amount of time? JFC.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 11, 2024, 03:37:09 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 11, 2024, 02:02:43 PM

it's not even so much about energy independence. it's more diplomatic competence. having the ability to get the Saudis to cut-back on oil production when you want them to is just as important as getting them to ramp up production when you want them to. and unfortunately our senile geriatric president shits-his-diapers has alienated the saudis to the point where they are now making deals to trade their oil in other currencies and continually embarrass him on the worlds stage, continually give him the finger for the entire world to see and basically do not co-operate on anything in the US interest, and that relationship was literally the complete opposite under Trump.

saudis trading their oil in US dollars exclusively and ramping production up or down based on when it benefits us is vital to US world economic dominance and our national security. President Shits-his diapers has done so much damage to that relationship in under 4 years- that it's downright insane. how can someone fk it up that bad in such a short amount of time? JFC.

Your first sentence is directly related (backwards) to the rest of your post.
Energy independence nullifies the importance of voting in our own smarmy guy to talk up the smarmy country.
Not needing the Saudis is a valid goal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2024, 04:44:57 PM

I think the Saudis adjust oil production based more on demand by the market than any President's wishes.  They want reasonably stable and predictable pricing, drifting higher over time.

I do find it ironic that US oil production is setting records despite a "war on oil".  It's a thing Democrats can't really claim as an asset.

I had hopes at one point that EVs would be a "solution" to much of this, but now I view it as a "maybe longer term" maybe.

The price action of gold over the past three years puzzles me some.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2024, 05:05:38 PM

I get "news" from the bar next to us, today they are adverting $4 PBRs, as if.

They do feature some specials at times that look good.

I had what is called a Turkish breakfast today at another place.  It was solid.

AGORA (agoracuisine.com) (https://www.agoracuisine.com/?gclid=CjwKCAiA_aGuBhACEiwAly57MQzLefHrmzUKrfoC-ZQZEkRMoX8FWmF0Afgwl3p5KHPuyMuxyL4iGRoC4PcQAvD_BwE)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2024, 08:34:02 AM

Maybe if we all chip in?

100 Bay Rd, Naples, FL 34102 | MLS #224011822 | Zillow (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/100-Bay-Rd-Naples-FL-34102/43737577_zpid/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 12, 2024, 08:34:24 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/FDCfRZd.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 12, 2024, 08:35:16 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2024, 08:34:02 AM

Maybe if we all chip in?

100 Bay Rd, Naples, FL 34102 | MLS #224011822 | Zillow (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/100-Bay-Rd-Naples-FL-34102/43737577_zpid/)

There is nothing like it, anywhere. Gordon Pointe is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to own a private oasis located in the exclusive neighborhood of Port Royal which is the ultimate setting for creating a lifestyle of custom luxury. This extraordinary property features pristine beaches bordering the crystal-clear waters of the Gulf of Mexico, a private 231-foot yacht basin and your own 111-foot T-dock. Gordon Pointe lends itself to many possibilities with incredible flexibility which could be an ideal private and gated family compound with a few incredible homes or the potential for several special home sites that feature an incomparable 728 feet of Beach frontage and 927 feet of Bay frontage for an incredible total of 1655 feet of water frontage. This compound features one primary home and two extensive guest homes. Gordon Pointe offers endless possibilities for future generations to create their own memories.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 12, 2024, 08:53:30 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2024, 08:34:02 AM

Maybe if we all chip in?

100 Bay Rd, Naples, FL 34102 | MLS #224011822 | Zillow (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/100-Bay-Rd-Naples-FL-34102/43737577_zpid/)

I call dibs on the guest house 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2024, 08:55:45 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 12, 2024, 08:53:30 AM

I call dibs on the guest house

Yeah, that one's worth only $50 Million.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 12, 2024, 09:36:35 AM

I hope the $4 PBRs are tallboys

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 12, 2024, 10:22:19 AM

This morning, I was up early and unloaded the dishwasher.  I was starting with the cutlery when I determined the machine had indeed not been run.  I had to take all the plates and bowls back out and turn it on.

As for knife positioning, I learned not to put sharp knives in facing down.  It wears holes in the baskets and they are pricey to replace.  

I'm getting younger all the time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 12, 2024, 11:03:36 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2024, 08:34:02 AM

Maybe if we all chip in?

100 Bay Rd, Naples, FL 34102 | MLS #224011822 | Zillow (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/100-Bay-Rd-Naples-FL-34102/43737577_zpid/)

ha, that's peanuts. hedge fund gazillionaire Ken Griffin is building a $1 billion compound on Palm Beach island.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 12, 2024, 11:04:47 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 12, 2024, 08:34:24 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/FDCfRZd.png)

no wonder why the traffic has been more insane than ever before. PSA...go back to New York....thanks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2024, 11:07:54 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 12, 2024, 11:04:47 AM

no wonder why the traffic has been more insane than ever before. PSA...go back to New York....thanks.

They are coming here too. Lots of Illinois and California in the past couple of years.

I've met Ken Griffin. Seems like a really good guy. Glad to have him as a Florida resident.

That listing, by the way, is the highest in the country right now. How many buyers are there for a $300,000,000 home? Like 10?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 12, 2024, 11:08:34 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 11, 2024, 03:37:09 PM

Your first sentence is directly related (backwards) to the rest of your post.
Energy independence nullifies the importance of voting in our own smarmy guy to talk up the smarmy country.
Not needing the Saudis is a valid goal.

yeah, no. has nothing to do with energy independence at all. we hardly import energy from the saudis. haven't really gotten much from them for decades. read it all over again and then think about it long and hard.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 12, 2024, 11:13:00 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2024, 11:07:54 AM

They are coming here too. Lots of Illinois and California in the past couple of years.

I've met Ken Griffin. Seems like a really good guy. Glad to have him as a Florida resident.

That listing, by the way, is the highest in the country right now. How many buyers are there for a $300,000,000 home? Like 10?

yeah I've seen a lot of Chicago area, Boston area, and NYC area people come down in droves this way. most of which have $$$$. those areas are bleeding population to Florida- and it's mainly people with money. thankfully I haven't seen very many Californians. they can go ruin other parts of this country- stay the fk out of Florida please. 

my hope is that these people who are fleeing the Democrat run sh*tholes they are escaping from remember why they are fleeing those shitholes and don't fk this amazing place up. If not I say we deport 'em back.

there's more than 10 people that could afford to buy that house. how many of them that can afford it actually would buy it? probably not very many. Naples has the disadvantage of being on the other coast. Seems like all the billionaires want to live in Palm Beach or Miami right now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2024, 11:42:36 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 12, 2024, 10:22:19 AM

This morning, I was up early and unloaded the dishwasher.  I was starting with the cutlery when I determined the machine had indeed not been run.  I had to take all the plates and bowls back out and turn it on.

As for knife positioning, I learned not to put sharp knives in facing down.  It wears holes in the baskets and they are pricey to replace. 

I'm getting younger all the time.

I learned that you NEVER put good sharp knives in the dishwasher, period. Hand-wash only.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2024, 11:44:35 AM

I like this coast better then the other side. I wouldn't want to be anywhere in Miami-Palm Beach. Traffic is bad enough over here, to me. That side... ouch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 12, 2024, 11:56:25 AM

Heh, telling New Yorkers to leave south Florida. For generations the way they do that is in a casket.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 12, 2024, 12:09:47 PM

there's your side hustle!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 12, 2024, 12:18:58 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 12, 2024, 11:56:25 AM

Heh, telling New Yorkers to leave south Florida. For generations the way they do that is in a casket.

that's changing. unfortunately. they aren't coming down just for season anymore. they aren't fking leaving now. New Yorkers in their 30s, 40s, and 50s are moving down here permanently in record numbers. And it's mostly ones with money. It's not just the retirees who will die off in 10 years or less or the seasonal crowd. can deal with that. now they just aren't fking leaving and it sucks. 

#dontfaucimyflorida

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2024, 12:34:41 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 12, 2024, 12:18:58 PM

that's changing. unfortunately. they aren't coming down just for season anymore. they aren't fking leaving now. New Yorkers in their 30s, 40s, and 50s are moving down here permanently in record numbers. And it's mostly ones with money. It's not just the retirees who will die off in 10 years or less or the seasonal crowd. can deal with that. now they just aren't fking leaving and it sucks.

#dontfaucimyflorida

I've seen these bumper stickers around. And yes, many are perma-residents. 


(https://i.imgur.com/L2CSWFl.png)


I've seen some California ones too, but not as many.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 12, 2024, 01:00:57 PM

I’ll laugh again at “my” Florida. 

Silly entitlement from the interlopers, 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2024, 01:14:02 PM

It's very true - not many people are actually from here. 

But most of us came for more than just the weather. No state income tax, no pension debt, budget surpluses every year, low property tax, lower crime, etc. A well-run state and we'd like to keep it that way.

We wish we could have moved here 20 years ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 12, 2024, 01:14:27 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2024, 11:42:36 AM

I learned that you NEVER put good sharp knives in the dishwasher, period. Hand-wash only.

I don't put my good knives in it, but steak knives and some cheap paring knives I do.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 12, 2024, 01:16:26 PM

Georgia works for us, no state income tax on retirement conversions up to $130 K.  Property tax rates are about the same as we had in Cincy.  Sales tax locally is high.  We shop at a Costco just over the line.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2024, 01:21:49 PM

I need to look into doing a conversion. I'm not sure what it would take to convert a $750K IRA into a Roth. Need to talk to an accountant about this.

The rest of our stuff is all Roth already.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 12, 2024, 01:29:21 PM

For you, the Federal tax bite would bite.  Years ago, I did a partial conversion in 2007 just before the market tanked.  So, I switched it all back, paid no taxes or anything, so you can change your mind within some period.  I also borrowed from my IRA to help pay for the condo and paid that back when other funds freed up.  You can borrow tax free for 30 days?  Some period.  Currently most of my wealth is in a regular IRA.

If Congress raised the top tax bracket, I'd look to transfer more one year and pay the lower rate.  The "Trump tax cuts" are slated to expire in a couple years.  I'm looking at that, but the increase isn't that dramatic.

Tax brackets for income earned in 2024

tax bracket income ranges for twenty twenty four are shown in this table
Table with 3 columns and 7 rows.
Tax rate
Single filers
Married filing jointly


37%

$609,350 or more	$731,200 or more

35%

$243,725 - $609,349.99	$487,450 - $731,199.99

32%

$191,950 - $243,724.99	$383,900 - $487,449.99

24%

$100,525 - $191,949.99	$201,050 - $383,899.99

22%

$47,150 - $100,524.99	$94,300 - $201,049.99

12%

$11,600 - $47,149.99	$23,200 - $94,299.99

10%

$11,599.99 or less

$23,199.99 or less

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2024, 01:35:35 PM

Probably best off to wait until I stop working, it seems, and just do a slower trickle every year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 12, 2024, 01:54:17 PM

Keep an eye on future tax rate changes.

Trump Era Tax Cuts Are Set To Expire — Here’s How Much More You’ll Pay (yahoo.com) (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-era-tax-cuts-set-160750197.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAANlmdOJZcgm7OFZN2Am0FTQu96CYLMB-jw-MZxMoAd4FExzuW3GHnUrA55BySKoSocNy4Y-mF8upKBZh25ZynvYnOCpXinHSGfHWCTvYbk_tcmnbKSoj3p6SQzjO5oDPSL-P4nBzVZJim0AHy1RX2H5dJq250Tor5iYm38hPKG0i)

The TCJA spawned a bunch of changes to the tax code, but here are three key tax adjustments that you’ll need to consider before they turn back at the end of 2025.
Income Tax Rates
Although it kept seven income brackets, the TCJA lowered tax rates across the board and restructured bracket spans, making them more agreeable under the TCJA. With the exception of those who were at 10% (those making $11,000 or less) and 35% (those earning $231,251 to $578,125) tax rate levels prior to 2018, all income tax rates decreased when the new laws came into effect.
The top individual tax rate dropped from 39.6% to 37% under the terms of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (single filers making $578,126 and over), the 33% bracket fell to 32% ($182,101-$231,250), the 28% bracket to 24% ($95,376-$182,100), the 25% bracket to 22% ($44,726-$95,375) and the 15% bracket to 12% ($11,001-$44,725).
These bracket backslides will mean that every American will need to reassess their spending and tax returns to pay 1% to 4% more in personal taxes unless provisions are extended, revised or made permanent over the next 28 months.
Standard Deduction
Under the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act for the tax years beginning after December 31, 2017, and before January 1, 2026, the standard deduction was nearly doubled for all filing statuses. This led to fewer people itemizing deductions and instead opting for the standard deduction.
The TCJA significantly changed the standard deduction amounts for individuals and families. The standard deductions before the 2017 Tax Year were $6,350 for single filers, $9,350 for heads of household and $12,700 for those married filing jointly.
After the TCJA (2018-2025 tax years), these amounts jumped dramatically. The standard deductions for the 2023 tax year are $13,850 for those single or married filing separately, $27,700 for those married filing separately and surviving spouses and $20,800 for heads of household.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 12, 2024, 05:51:26 PM

Thanks, Obama!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2024, 07:31:48 AM

I'm paying around 20% when I dip into my IRA each year, little or nothing to the state.  I can deal with that.  I'll run some numbers before the rates go up, but I think I'm better off dipping into it year by year instead of all at once.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2024, 08:27:52 AM

if "all at once" bumps you up a tax bracket or 3 it could be expensive

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2024, 08:29:38 AM

It would depend a lot on how much income you have in that higher tax bracket of course.  Maybe your top tax bracket goes from 24% to 28%, but you only have say $10 K in income in that bracket.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2024, 08:59:22 AM

why not just convert $10K less?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2024, 09:41:06 AM

You might need the extra $10 K, and the additional tax would only be $400.  "Only".  Better if you can manage under the limit of course.

I chuckle when I hear this was a tax cut for billionaries.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2024, 09:53:26 AM

I'd hafta need it pretty bad to pay $400 to get it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 13, 2024, 09:54:16 AM

Speed costs money.  How fast do you want to go?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2024, 09:57:28 AM

If you waited a year, you'd pay $2400 in that lower bracket anyway vs $2800.  If you can manage with $44 K a year you'd pay even less of course.

For a person with a "stash" in a pretax IRA, there is a question as to how best to take the money out or convert to a Roth.  I think it's best to do it piece by piece, but IF "they" raised tax rates by a lot, I'd convert before that took effect.

I'd prefer some kind of system where "we" tax enough to cover the deficit, and reduce spending enough to make that possible, but that ain't agonna happen.  And it would likely crash the economy anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2024, 09:58:25 AM

YARN | I wanna go fast. | Talladega Nights: The Ballad of Ricky Bobby (2006) | Video gifs by quotes | f1f0570c | 紗 (getyarn.io) (https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/f1f0570c-3128-450f-9c19-f3925939ea46/gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2024, 09:58:42 AM

As comedies go, I rather enjoyed that one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 13, 2024, 09:58:54 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 13, 2024, 09:41:06 AM

You might need the extra $10 K, and the additional tax would only be $400.  "Only".  Better if you can manage under the limit of course.

I chuckle when I hear this was a tax cut for billionaries.

yeah, lot of them don't pay income taxes. they use their stock holdings/property portfolios as collateral and borrow at super cheap interest rates from banks that desperately want their business and spend, take out new loans, refinance debt, rinse and repeat til they die.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 13, 2024, 10:01:05 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 13, 2024, 09:54:16 AM

Speed costs money.  How fast do you want to go?

how much does an SR-71 cost? cause I wanna go that fast. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2024, 10:26:13 AM

I'm a bit amazed we don't have faster air travel today.  I know we could at a high cost.  I just paid for upgraded seats on our upcoming flights to Japan and back from Seoul.  Both trips basically take ~24 hours.

I want to try that train we're building from here to India, I heard about it a while back.

Biden Roasted for 'Ambitious' Railroad Plan from the Pacific to Indian Ocean; '...Train to India' (youtube.com) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUVKSqZAZng)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 13, 2024, 11:05:45 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 13, 2024, 10:26:13 AM

I'm a bit amazed we don't have faster air travel today.  I know we could at a high cost.  I just paid for upgraded seats on our upcoming flights to Japan and back from Seoul.  Both trips basically take ~24 hours.

I want to try that train we're building from here to India, I heard about it a while back.

Biden Roasted for 'Ambitious' Railroad Plan from the Pacific to Indian Ocean; '...Train to India' (youtube.com) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUVKSqZAZng)

It's getting worse...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2024, 11:07:08 AM

$50 minimum wage? Here's what U.S. Senate candidates for Calfiornia say (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/poverty/4464365-50-minimum-wage-heres-what-us-senate-candidates-for-california-say/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 13, 2024, 11:58:29 AM

More stupid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 13, 2024, 11:59:30 AM

Sounds amazing.  Everyone should move to California!!!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2024, 12:05:33 PM

My proposal is to set the MW to the highest point it's ever been adjusted for inflation, and then add a COLA.  Done.

Anyone care to guess how much that would be?  It's 1968, as I recall.

(And yes, I do think the concept is flawed anyway, but it's not going away.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 13, 2024, 12:15:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 13, 2024, 12:05:33 PM

My proposal is to set the MW to the highest point it's ever been adjusted for inflation, and then add a COLA.  Done.

Anyone care to guess how much that would be?  It's 1968, as I recall.

(And yes, I do think the concept is flawed anyway, but it's not going away.)

History of Federal Minimum Wage Rates Under the Fair Labor Standards Act, 1938 - 2009 | U.S. Department of Labor (dol.gov)

 (https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/minimum-wage/history/chart)$7.25 as of 2009.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 13, 2024, 12:31:18 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 13, 2024, 11:59:30 AM

Sounds amazing.  Everyone should move to Austin California!!!!!

FIFY.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2024, 12:34:33 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/tt5oYgp.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2024, 12:39:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 13, 2024, 09:57:28 AM

If you waited a year, you'd pay $2400 in that lower bracket anyway vs $2800.  If you can manage with $44 K a year you'd pay even less of course.

I'm your Huckleberry

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2024, 12:41:49 PM

I could "manage" on $44 K a year given we both get SS as well.  I keep trying to spend what I have before the kids get it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2024, 12:43:09 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 13, 2024, 11:07:08 AM

$50 minimum wage? Here's what U.S. Senate candidates for Calfiornia say (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/poverty/4464365-50-minimum-wage-heres-what-us-senate-candidates-for-california-say/)

moving there for my retirement job

fast food workers would get $60/hour

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 13, 2024, 01:01:04 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 13, 2024, 12:31:18 PM

FIFY.

Lulz you're talking about Texas.  Ain't gonna be any $50 minimum wage here any time soon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2024, 01:01:44 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/iF3UPJN.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 13, 2024, 01:16:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 13, 2024, 12:34:33 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/tt5oYgp.png)

I'd say $14 is fair. States can supplement or make people pay more. Whatever works for those states.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 13, 2024, 02:07:40 PM

I had to do a 12 hour fast for a blood draw this morning.  I didn't remember to pick a cause

https://twitter.com/nickgillespie/status/1757182711045697648?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 13, 2024, 02:27:30 PM

Wow... Apparently when I forget to eat (or just don't feel like it) between the previous night and the next night's dinner, it means I'm an activist? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 13, 2024, 02:31:51 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 13, 2024, 02:27:30 PM

Wow... Apparently when I forget to eat (or just don't feel like it) between the previous night and the next night's dinner, it means I'm an activist?

Be the change you want to see

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 13, 2024, 02:34:08 PM

I had a minor back surgery this morning.

15 hour fast.

Activate!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 13, 2024, 02:37:14 PM

How much credit as an activist do I get for liking this song? I mean, Eddie Vedder is #woke , so it must be worth something, right? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUb450Alpps

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 13, 2024, 02:57:22 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 13, 2024, 02:37:14 PM

How much credit as an activist do I get for liking this song? I mean, Eddie Vedder is #woke , so it must be worth something, right?

(https://i.imgur.com/RX5dN7B.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 13, 2024, 03:05:30 PM

#okboomer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 13, 2024, 03:09:49 PM

Quote from: ELA on February 13, 2024, 02:07:40 PM

I had to do a 12 hour fast for a blood draw this morning.  I didn't remember to pick a cause

Be sure to mark yourself safe from fasting on Facebook.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2024, 09:37:09 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 13, 2024, 03:05:30 PM

#okboomer

boomers are ALWAYS OK
just aske them

and Badge isn't old enough to be a boomer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on February 13, 2024, 10:01:18 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 13, 2024, 02:37:14 PM

How much credit as an activist do I get for liking this song? I mean, Eddie Vedder is #woke , so it must be worth something, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUb450Alpps

Stealing bread though.   Peaceful protests. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2024, 07:18:38 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/iGx2Zw3.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2024, 08:43:48 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 13, 2024, 09:37:09 PM

boomers are ALWAYS OK
just aske them

and Badge isn't old enough to be a boomer

I've been self-employed for 23 years. I'm much older than my birth certificate says.

BOOM!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 14, 2024, 08:49:51 AM

self employment can age a fellow

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on February 14, 2024, 09:05:12 AM

❤️❤️ Happy Valentine's Day to @longhorn320 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=16) & @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) - BJ Thomas sings his hit Hooked On A Feeling wearing a Texas Longhorns jersey for a talk show performance in 1974 to discuss abusing drugs.

(https://i.imgur.com/9ojhXEh.png)

Two points:

1) I think BJ Thomas is from Oklahoma?

2) Does 1974 seem rather early to casually wear team jerseys? Obviously I can't remember that far back, but when did wearing jerseys as regular clothes become a mainstream trend? The 90s?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTUAh4bQYKE

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2024, 09:08:49 AM

I don't recall wearing team jerseys when I was in college ca. 1972.  They were $$$ and/or not really available.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2024, 09:17:13 AM

Jerseys are for players.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2024, 09:25:41 AM

I wore a jersey fairly recently.  Talk about looking old, I don't feel that old.

(https://i.imgur.com/QTaz7ms.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 14, 2024, 09:54:04 AM

Ive always liked BJ Thomas so thanks for the valentine wheres my candy

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 14, 2024, 10:07:12 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2024, 09:17:13 AM

Jerseys are for players.

and little kids

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2024, 10:18:34 AM

Too expensive for little kids, who grow out of them quickly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2024, 11:09:32 AM

Estonia is worried.

Intel Warns Putin Is Prepping for a Military Clash with NATO (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/intel-warns-putin-is-prepping-for-a-military-clash-with-nato/ar-BB1iemay?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=d6a2af3d88b045d29855ed7d49cf748b&ei=10)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2024, 11:19:39 AM

Maybe longer term, I think today the Russian forces are "fully engaged"...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2024, 11:41:12 AM

I'm pretty sure you are right about that. I think they underestimated Ukraine's will too. 

Although Ukraine would not be Ukraine any more without foreign money.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2024, 11:53:05 AM

Ukraine did hold out with the initial attack which was before they got any real foreign aid.  I think they could have held on but without their counterattack which regained some territory in the first year.  The second counteroffensive appears to have been a poor choice militarily.

I suspect as much as anything today they need ammunition.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2024, 01:19:47 PM

10 Financial Tips From Leading Politicians For Amassing Amazing Wealth | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/10-financial-tips-from-leading-politicians-for-amassing-amazing-wealth?utm_source=The Babylon Bee)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 14, 2024, 01:50:53 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2024, 11:09:32 AM

Estonia is worried.

Intel Warns Putin Is Prepping for a Military Clash with NATO (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/intel-warns-putin-is-prepping-for-a-military-clash-with-nato/ar-BB1iemay?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=d6a2af3d88b045d29855ed7d49cf748b&ei=10)

it’s from the daily beast, which means it’s not worth the fake internet paper it’s written on. 

Putin can take Ukraine and Estonia and any other shithole Slavic/eastern European country out there. I literally do not give a single fk and I would seriously not be ok with a single American being injured or killed fighting in a war over there. We have enough problems here. Not our problem. 

Putin can’t take the whole of Ukraine, which is not a NATO member and has had a real life army for like not even a decade. Highly doubt he’s going to try to start a war with NATO, which would mean getting into a direct hot war with the US, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Turkey and like 20 additional countries.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2024, 01:59:19 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 14, 2024, 01:50:53 PM

it’s from the daily beast, which means it’s not worth the fake internet paper it’s written on.

Putin can take Ukraine and Estonia and any other shithole Slavic/eastern European country out there. I literally do not give a single fk and I would seriously not be ok with a single American being injured or killed fighting in a war over there. We have enough problems here. Not our problem.

Putin can’t take the whole of Ukraine, which is not a NATO member and has had a real life army for like not even a decade. Highly doubt he’s going to try to start a war with NATO, which would mean getting into a direct hot war with the US, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Turkey and like 20 additional countries.

I don't know what that is. I just saw it on my MSN feed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 14, 2024, 02:20:26 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 14, 2024, 01:50:53 PM

it’s from the daily beast, which means it’s not worth the fake internet paper it’s written on.

Putin can take Ukraine and Estonia and any other shithole Slavic/eastern European country out there. I literally do not give a single fk and I would seriously not be ok with a single American being injured or killed fighting in a war over there. We have enough problems here. Not our problem.

Putin can’t take the whole of Ukraine, which is not a NATO member and has had a real life army for like not even a decade. Highly doubt he’s going to try to start a war with NATO, which would mean getting into a direct hot war with the US, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Turkey and like 20 additional countries.

Yeah, we know you don't give a single fk about anything Putin does. 

That said, Estonia IS a NATO member. So I don't think we should signal that he can take them and we're going to stand down. Nor should we encourage him to do so, as someone recently suggested. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 14, 2024, 04:42:12 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2024, 11:41:12 AM

I'm pretty sure you are right about that. I think they underestimated Ukraine's will too.

Although Ukraine would not be Ukraine any more without foreign money.

Same can be said for France, Poland, Belgium, etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on February 14, 2024, 05:40:18 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 14, 2024, 04:42:12 PM

Same can be said for France, Poland, Belgium, etc.

Yup. The EU and all of it's predecessors were all organized and built at considerable expense, as well as considerable benefit, to the American taxpayer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 14, 2024, 05:53:50 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 14, 2024, 01:50:53 PM

it’s from the daily beast, which means it’s not worth the fake internet paper it’s written on.

Putin can take Ukraine and Estonia and any other shithole Slavic/eastern European country out there. I literally do not give a single fk and I would seriously not be ok with a single American being injured or killed fighting in a war over there. We have enough problems here. Not our problem.

Putin can’t take the whole of Ukraine, which is not a NATO member and has had a real life army for like not even a decade. Highly doubt he’s going to try to start a war with NATO, which would mean getting into a direct hot war with the US, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Turkey and like 20 additional countries.

You're not wrong but who the hell knows what/who these steaming piles in washington are capable of whoring themselves out/up to

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 14, 2024, 06:38:17 PM

I don't want it to happen, of course, but.....



...an official war vs an official country would be a lot easier than the last 20 years of bullshit our military has had to push through.
I don't think Russia wants anything to do with us putting down the scalpels and endoscopes for our operations and picking up the bone saw to git 'er done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 14, 2024, 07:23:30 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 14, 2024, 06:38:17 PM

I don't want it to happen, of course, but.....

...an official war vs an official country would be a lot easier than the last 20 years of bullshit our military has had to push through.

I don't think Russia wants anything to do with us putting down the scalpels and endoscopes for our operations and picking up the bone saw to git 'er done.

Hey, at least if there's a nuclear exchange, we won't have to debate college football playoff models any longer...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 14, 2024, 10:39:08 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 14, 2024, 02:20:26 PM

That said, Estonia IS a NATO member. So I don't think we should signal that he can take them and we're going to stand down. Nor should we encourage him to do so, as someone recently suggested.

would it really be a big deal

are we really gonna start WWIII or a nuclear exchange over Estonia???
I hope not

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on February 15, 2024, 12:16:10 AM

https://youtu.be/NpBPm0b9deQ?si=ZoMkMPCaXWSUaeQY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2024, 05:22:11 AM

If we fail to honor our treaty obligations, nobody would trust us any more for much of anything.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2024, 07:16:49 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on February 14, 2024, 05:40:18 PM

Yup. The EU and all of it's predecessors were all organized and built at considerable expense, as well as considerable benefit, to the American taxpayer.

What's the benefit to the American taxpayer?

Is it travel, for those of us who can afford to?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2024, 07:23:58 AM

I think we benefit by having a stable group of trading partners in Europe.  The alternative situation with little to no US "interest" could be pretty dire.

We also benefit in having military allies in the region instead of foes, or even neutral parties.  I do think the US should review all it's overseas commitments realizing we can't continue spending like this forever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2024, 07:36:48 AM

Allies? 

The ones who don't meet their NATO spending obligations? 

Those allies?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2024, 07:54:39 AM

Yes, I include those as well.  The 2% level is obviously arbitrary, a reasonable figure  when the Soviet Union was an apparent threat.  And I agree countries like Germany should be "forced" to hit 2%, as they claim to be doing now.  I just read that 18 NATO countries will now hit the 2% level, Germany was really the one missing because their economy is so large relatively speaking.  It doesn't matter much if Portugal is low.

NATO: Record 18 states expected to meet 2% defense spending threshold this year | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/14/europe/nato-defense-spending-target-intl/index.html)

I think we benefit from having a stable Europe no matter what.  The alternative would not be pretty.

The US tax payer benefits in my view when as much of the world is stable and not at war.  The core idea in all this spending is to try and ensure there are no conflicts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 15, 2024, 08:08:06 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2024, 07:16:49 AM

What's the benefit to the American taxpayer?

Is it travel, for those of us who can afford to?

Stable trade partners are fairly important to an economy like ours.  We're about to find out just how important, as China's instability intensifies.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 15, 2024, 08:12:58 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2024, 05:22:11 AM

If we fail to honor our treaty $$$$$ obligations, nobody would trusts us any more for much of anything.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2024, 08:30:37 AM

^^^This.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2024, 11:29:49 AM

What I worry about:

Russia moves into NATO countries, say the Baltics. Now we are in a war with Russia as a NATO member.

China decides to take Taiwan and moves on the Philippines, Guam and even Hawaii.

Iran and North Korea are helping China and Russia.

Can Japan, Australia and South Korea stand up to China? Very doubtful.

Does the US have enough power to fight on two fronts, like it did in WWII? Very doubtful.

Maybe I worry too much. Maybe not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2024, 11:39:14 AM

China at this point lacks much ability to project power over much distance from mainland China.  They are trying to build up because even taking Taiwan is, I think, outside their capability, today.  To attack the PI or Japan etc. is well outside their abilities.  A major need would be air support, which means carriers, which they don't have in amount and quality needed.  

Japan has a pretty credible self defense force that is expanding.  The logistics of sending a significant force across a major body of water and keeping it supplied is "difficult", especially if contested by submarines and/or air attack.

I don't think Russia has any current interest in the Baltics.  That is subject to change depending on what happens with Ukraine.  But I think it would be years out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on February 15, 2024, 12:49:41 PM

I wonder, has China's modern military ever been in any kind of a real shooting war? Not the Korean war, because as I understand it, they simply threw bodies in there with no real military strategy.  

The US and some of it's allies have had: WW I and II (obviously), Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War I and II, Afghanistan, and countless military operations and skirmishes throughout the last 30+ years.  I'm talking Panama, Somalia, OPS in Pakistan and all the Stans.  

What military conflict has China done?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2024, 12:54:07 PM

They attacked Vietnam a while back, didn't go so well.  They did have some strategy in the Korean War, their tactics were unimaginative, but so were ours often as not.

I wonder how many of their top generals are political appointees in effect.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: jgvol on February 15, 2024, 01:19:20 PM

How about we re-elect Trump in November and put all these assholes back to sleep for 4 more years?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2024, 03:03:25 PM

Gorgeous day here, I went to the park for a bit, a lot of young female types strolling and jogging about.  And one old man.  I threw some against the tennis practice wall, my arm is ... well, old.

We're cooking up a trip in September to Istanbul with our semi-crazy neighbor, he'll be there anyway.  I have a zero Bday that month.  I was checking plane fares and remain astonished at how expensive it is to fly up front.  We'll stay in comfort seats.  Or main cabin if I get exit rows.  Also have a 3 day jaunt up into the mountains here in April.

The world, and particularly college football, seem determined to GTH with me watching.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2024, 03:13:46 PM

Man, I just don't see us ever doing Turkey. We're not interested in going to places where "we" are generally not liked.

More Western Europe or Asia is on our radar now.

South Korea, Japan, maybe Taiwan (if it exists). Travel there is a beast. Probably visit family in the LA area for a break, then hit Hawaii for a bit. Break it up a little.

There are some nice cruises down the line over there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2024, 03:19:54 PM

We spoke with several folks who have been, including one fellow who is Greek.  They are unanimous that it's a fabulous place to visit.  And with our neighbor there to show us about, it probably will work well.  But then, I've also visited Oman, Turkey sounds positively western.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2024, 03:48:28 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/u2Ycwjv.png)

I think I've made this point differently before.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2024, 03:56:28 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2024, 03:13:46 PM

South Korea, Japan, maybe Taiwan (if it exists). Travel there is a beast. Probably visit family in the LA area for a break, then hit Hawaii for a bit. Break it up a little.

Taiwan is fantastic. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2024, 04:05:55 PM

Tell me more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2024, 04:32:19 PM

There are a lot of cool things to see there. Obviously some temples open to the public that are really neat. There are museums devoted to Chaing Kai-Shek and Sun Yat-Sen that are really good. As an engineer you'll want to go up to the observation deck in the Taipei 101 tower to see the tuned mass damper. And of course you'll want to check out the night market. Get yourself some stinky tofu or even an oyster omelet lol... Maybe head out there during the dragon boat races (https://publicholidays.tw/dragon-boat-festival/)...

Culturally, Taiwan is a melting pot. Obviously there is a ton of Chinese influence, but Taiwan was conquered by the Japanese for a portion of history so there's Japanese influence. As Taiwan became an electronics powerhouse, and obviously wasn't importing workers from mainland China, they brought in a lot of people from all over Southeast Asia. 

With all those "melting pot" influences, the food in Taipei is wonderful--all sorts of options. Thai, regional Chinese cuisines that are hard to find here (like Hunan), and of course you'll want to find a place for their national dish (https://thewoksoflife.com/taiwanese-beef-noodle-soup-instant-pot/). I recall eating that one day for lunch when it was raining and it was the absolute perfect thing for that day. (I've made that recipe and it's fantastic--I've also asked Taiwanese expats I know and they confirm that recipe is legit.)

One of the places I liked near my usual hotel was a brewery (https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g13806900-d939660-Reviews-Jolly_Brewery_Restaurant-Songshan_Taipei.html), serving mostly German beers, Thai food, playing American pop music, and watching the Taiwanese Super Basketball League on the TV over the bar. Just a wild mishmash of everything in that joint. 

To be honest I'd say it's a city that you can get a good run of the place in maybe 4-5 days and see quite a bit. And it's very American-friendly. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2024, 04:39:43 PM

Thank you!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 15, 2024, 04:52:27 PM

Oh, and right down the street from the brewery is Hooters Taipei...

...in case you're there with Fearless.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2024, 04:57:47 PM

I just put the stuff for that recipe in my Amazon cart. No way I'd find some of those ingredients here. I don't even know if there is an Asian market around here. Not many Asians here, like out by you. Not even close.

But we DO have a great Pho place. Weird.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 15, 2024, 05:31:10 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2024, 03:48:28 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/u2Ycwjv.png)

I think I've made this point differently before.

Mencken is one of my favs!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 15, 2024, 05:56:42 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2024, 03:48:28 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/u2Ycwjv.png)

I think I've made this point differently before.

24-hour news channels.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 15, 2024, 06:03:06 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 15, 2024, 11:29:49 AM

What I worry about:

Russia moves into NATO countries, say the Baltics. Now we are in a war with Russia as a NATO member.

China decides to take Taiwan and moves on the Philippines, Guam and even Hawaii.

Iran and North Korea are helping China and Russia.

Can Japan, Australia and South Korea stand up to China? Very doubtful.

Does the US have enough power to fight on two fronts, like it did in WWII? Very doubtful.

Maybe I worry too much. Maybe not.

We would beat the rest of the world in a knock-down, drag-out fight.  But that's full-bore, bloody-nose, taking heavy losses war.

Our problem is that we're used to squirmishes "over there."  Our society is soft and would bitch about a war that increased the price of mustard by 50 cents.  Our society won't get its hands dirty and lacks buy-in.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2024, 07:18:10 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 14, 2024, 02:20:26 PM

Yeah, we know you don't give a single fk about anything Putin does.

That said, Estonia IS a NATO member. So I don't think we should signal that he can take them and we're going to stand down. Nor should we encourage him to do so, as someone recently suggested.

Yeah, no. I only care about what Putin does in relation to HOW IT AFFECTS the United States. That's it. Whether you believe him invading Ukraine in a bid to conquer them because he's a real life evil movie baddie or to stop them from pivoting away from Russia's sphere of influence and into the NATO/EU- doesn't affects the US at all. Not one motherfcking iota. So in that regard, I literally do not care.

And instead of you know, maybe NOT using our CIA to illegally overthrow a DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED GOVERNMENT in Ukraine in 2014 and hand-picking the puppet government that followed said illegally overthrown DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED GOVERNMENT and also maybe NOT floating NATO-Ukraine talks since 2004 (thanks a lot W- you motherfcking retard)- there probably isn't a war today.

And hey here's an idea, maybe we DON'T use this war to launder well over 100 BILLION in US taxpayer dollars mostly to defense contractors and CROOKED AS F*CK Ukrainian politicians. Just a thought.

Yes Estonia is a NATO member- and we can think dipsh*t for brains W for that. Yeah, let's pledge American blood & treasure to protect some shithole completely useless country that strategically gains us literally less than nothing and means absolutely nothing to us. At all. GREAT fcking idea W. He was the worst President in US history, until Biden came along. How can one country be so lucky to have two giant sh*t stains not even 20 years apart. Gee, thanks god. Not to pick on Estonia, because basically every new country added to NATO since the fall of the USSR has been a useless twat that does nothing but cause us more headache and potential grief than they are worth.

And that part about Trump "encouraging him to do so" is downright laughable. But- if you watch fake news media- that's what you get. Trump said what he's been saying for years. The world needs to stop free loading off the US and pay up. He said he'd tell NATO member states to pay you're share- or he doesn't care what the hell Russia or anyone does to you. And the man has a fcking point. The free loading Euro trash can pony up or they can fck right off. This country is $34 TRILLION in debt and a good chunk of that is war. We spend over $1 TRILLION a year on the war machine for the empire. These free loading Euro trash fks can pay up or they can fk off.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2024, 07:24:40 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 14, 2024, 11:53:05 AM

Ukraine did hold out with the initial attack which was before they got any real foreign aid.  I think they could have held on but without their counterattack which regained some territory in the first year.  The second counteroffensive appears to have been a poor choice militarily.

Yeah, so none of this is actually true. Ukraine has been getting aid from the US gov't since '91. And they've been getting weapons systems and training and help building up their armed forces from the US since at least 2014.

Their counter offensives have been duds and they are no closer to retaking any territory Russia took from them since the start of the war- and they will never retake Crimea and they are bound for failure and they will lose this war. Just a matter of time. Not an if. Just a when. No amount of wasted billions of US taxpayer dollars can change that. Only thing that could change the outcome of this war is US getting directly involved and fighting for them- and that just ain't happening. No US President would sacrifice US life to protect Ukraine. You know why? Cause it ain't fcking worth it to us. Never has been, never will be. End of story. Bye bye now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2024, 07:34:02 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 14, 2024, 04:42:12 PM

Same can be said for France, Poland, Belgium, etc.

yeah, no. France was at one point one of the worlds main super powers. They are a major country. Ukraine is literally none of those things. get back to me when any of those countries are basically a dead country that the US is propping up like a zombie. Ukraine would've ceased to exist if the US hadn't been giving going on hundreds of billions to it now going on the last couple of years. we aren't giving any country in EU that- not even close.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 15, 2024, 07:34:23 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on February 14, 2024, 05:40:18 PM

Yup. The EU and all of it's predecessors were all organized and built at considerable expense, as well as considerable benefit, to the American taxpayer.

yeah, no. EU doesn't benefit us at all. don't know where you're getting that bullsh*t, but it's not true. only thing in Europe that benefits the US is NATO. and it's questionable how beneficial that is anymore.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2024, 07:38:39 AM

Yes, Ukraine was receiving a modest level of mostly nonlethal aid before Russia invaded.  Obviously that changed, but before this happened Ukraine did a solid job of resisting the Russian invasion in the first few months.

To me, keeping Russia "tied down" in Ukraine is in our national interest until such point that both sides tire of this mess and agree to real negotiations.  The end result will likely involve "land for peace" and western recognition of Crimea as being Russian.

I think our overall global strategic objective should comprise having as many countries "stable" and at least quasi-democratic as possible.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 16, 2024, 08:19:25 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 15, 2024, 07:18:10 PM

And hey here's an idea, maybe we DON'T use this war to launder well over 100 BILLION in US taxpayer dollars mostly to defense contractors and CROOKED AS F*CK Ukrainian politicians. Just a thought.

If I'm not mistaken that propped up scarecrow Dianne Feinstein in her last bellowings to the House appropriations committee voted for 719 or 819 billion dollars.Not sure in her land of make believe if that was available or went thru,but she went toes up and hope she's get pitchforks from the red host.Soon to be joined by Pelosi,Cheney,Branden,Hunter and a chain of chiselers from both sides of the isle

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 16, 2024, 09:56:34 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 16, 2024, 07:38:39 AM

Yes, Ukraine was receiving a modest level of mostly nonlethal aid before Russia invaded.  Obviously that changed, but before this happened Ukraine did a solid job of resisting the Russian invasion in the first few months.

To me, keeping Russia "tied down" in Ukraine is in our national interest until such point that both sides tire of this mess and agree to real negotiations.  The end result will likely involve "land for peace" and western recognition of Crimea as being Russian.

I think our overall global strategic objective should comprise having as many countries "stable" and at least quasi-democratic as possible. 

Ukraine was receiving much more than a modest level of aid before Russia invaded. I believe from 2017-2019 alone they received almost $1.5 billion in "security assistance" aid- and that included "lethal arms". I would hardly call $1.5 billion in free sh*t modest, but hey that's just me.

And while it's true that the aid that was sent to Ukraine from 2014-2016 was "non-lethal", as Obama smartly recognized the situation was a powder keg and resisted pressure from nutjobs within his own party and the pentagon to flood Ukraine with lethal arms- they did receive military assistance and training from the US.

By the way, it was Trump the "Russia puppet" that flooded Ukraine with lethal arms. Kind of funny that a "Russian puppet" would expel so many Russians from US soil, sanction the f**k out of Russian nationals & corporations, and flood Ukraine with lethal arms. Seems like something a Russian puppet wouldn't do. But hey, we only wasted 8 years of our lives having the fake news media push that hair brained conspiracy theory down everyones throats.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 16, 2024, 11:33:40 AM

so according to special counsel Robert Hur- after a 15 month investigation- Joe Biden is too senile and not mentally fit enough to be charged with and stand trial for mishandling of classified documents. but he's A-OK to remain President of the United States of America. Make it make sense.

We truly do live in a motherfcking clown world.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 16, 2024, 12:03:44 PM

https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-lifestyle/video-captures-brewer-blasted-backward-by-beer-at-minnesota-brewery

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 16, 2024, 02:01:13 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 15, 2024, 07:34:02 PM

yeah, no. France was at one point one of the worlds main super powers. They are a major country. Ukraine is literally none of those things. get back to me when any of those countries are basically a dead country that the US is propping up like a zombie. Ukraine would've ceased to exist if the US hadn't been giving going on hundreds of billions to it now going on the last couple of years. we aren't giving any country in EU that- not even close.

Nothing you've said refutes my assertion that France, Poland, and Belgium would have been dead, invaded countries after WII, were it not for US supporting them through finances, firepower, and American lives.

You're subjectively arguing the relative worth of Ukraine versus those other countries, which is fine, but it has nothing to do with my point.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 17, 2024, 10:06:23 AM

Should have stopped in 1990, with the reunification of Germany. I don't understand why Turkey was added either.

(https://i.imgur.com/PmJAe7J.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 17, 2024, 10:12:22 AM

Dickface Putin is just plan evil. 

Alexei Navalny, a thorn in Vladimir Putin's side, died. What does it mean for Russia? (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/alexei-navalny-a-thorn-in-vladimir-putins-side-died-what-does-it-mean-for-russia/ar-BB1inmrx)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Entropy on February 17, 2024, 10:17:41 AM

Putin has always been evil.  He's a con artist who deep down believes he's justified  in his atrocities.  He creates justifications of moral authority and those delusions are adopted by the Russian culture.

I typically lean right, but when it comes to Russia, I do not align with the idea he's misunderstood.  Russia is still what it was in the cold war.  They should never be trusted. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 17, 2024, 10:21:46 AM

Yup

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 17, 2024, 10:24:27 AM

probably just bad luck for Navalny

maybe fell out a window or a plane just exploded or something

too bad Putin isn't so lucky

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2024, 07:34:09 AM

Nicolaus Copernicus: The man who stopped the sun and moved the earth | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/world/nicolaus-copernicus-the-man-who-stopped-the-sun-and-moved-the-earth)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 18, 2024, 07:51:34 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 16, 2024, 12:03:44 PM

https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-lifestyle/video-captures-brewer-blasted-backward-by-beer-at-minnesota-brewery

Evidently that vat had to take a piss,I usaully do with that much suds in my gut

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 18, 2024, 08:15:34 AM

my tip of the day...........

If someone reports their company for tax evasion in the U.S., he or she will receive 30% of the amount collected.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2024, 08:45:07 AM

Only of said outfit was shown to have evaded taxes.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 18, 2024, 08:46:48 AM

yes, and only 30% of collected 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 18, 2024, 09:26:30 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/TQjBdbE.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 19, 2024, 09:56:49 AM

My roof is being Demo'd today. It's loud in here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2024, 09:57:29 AM

Hurricane ??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 19, 2024, 10:01:40 AM

Yep. Finally got a settlement on the claim I filed October 2, 2022.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 19, 2024, 10:43:20 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 19, 2024, 10:01:40 AM

Yep. Finally got a settlement on the claim I filed October 2, 2022.

Not in the same league of course, but we just got our work finished from a massive hailstorm that hit in June 2023.  Entirely new roof shingles and flashing, new gutters, new screens, new window sealant/caulking, two new windows, and a new garage door. 

Luckily all cars were in the garage at the time, I had JUST cleared it out so that my truck could fit in next to the wife's Jeep and we didn't have my daughter's car yet.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 19, 2024, 10:54:45 AM

Shingles are not allowed here, per HOA rules.

We had concrete barrel tiles, which I don't care for. We are going with flat concrete now.

No other major damage as the house is concrete block with stucco finish. We put in hurricane windows when we bought the house. Cars were in the garage.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 20, 2024, 08:38:37 AM

Students Of 1 In 4 Higher Ed Programs Earn Less Than High School Graduates, Study Finds

CBS Money Watch reports according to a new analysis of earnings data “from almost 4,000 colleges and other higher education programs,” Americans may be justified for becoming “increasingly skeptical of the value of a post-secondary education at a time when college attendance costs are soaring.” The HEA Group, which analyzed Education Department data to track students’ earnings outcomes, found that a decade after enrolling, “attendees of 1 in 4 higher education programs are earning less than the median annual income of $32,000 for high school graduates.” About 8 percent of institutions “show their students’ median income a decade after enrolling is less than $22,000 a year, or about 150% of the federal poverty line,” The HEA Group found.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 20, 2024, 08:43:23 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 19, 2024, 10:54:45 AM

Shingles are not allowed here, per HOA rules.

3-tab asphalt shingles or luxury asphalt shingles are required here, per HOA rules. :)


There are some variances granted for metal roofs but the design/color must be approved by the HOA Architect Committee.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2024, 08:56:20 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 19, 2024, 10:54:45 AM

Shingles are not allowed here, per HOA rules.

I hear it can be very debilitating.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 20, 2024, 08:56:47 AM

Same here on the metal. There is only one on the block and it looks like those barrels, which I do not like at all. Metal is about 30% lighter, I'm told.

I'm thinking that the concrete tiles are best for hurricane protection. More down force on the roof would help keep it in place.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2024, 09:00:01 AM

Just as we moved in here, the roof was being redone.  It turned out to be much more expensive than had been forecast because it had been covered with loose stones, maybe they were glued.  Anyway, the city said those had to be removed.  There was an assessment on owners to pay for the increase, but we slid in under the time limit.

Most condos require a 2x payment of a month's HOA dues here when a condo changes hands, this place had been at 1x, which they changed a few months after we moved in.  It's not the end of the world, but both were pretty significant.  I spent half the savings on good booze, wild women, and fast cars, the other half ...

... I wasted.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 20, 2024, 02:02:18 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 17, 2024, 10:06:23 AM

Should have stopped in 1990, with the reunification of Germany. I don't understand why Turkey was added either.

(https://i.imgur.com/PmJAe7J.png)

Turkey was one of the early members, they were added because of the Bosphorus Straits, and we used them to stash nuclear missiles on their land- which is one of the many factors in the Cuban missile crisis.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2024, 02:19:33 PM

One oddity in history was when Turkey and Greece were going at it on Cyprus when both were NATO members.

I'm a bit surprised Sweden wants to be added.  I had a chance to talk this briefly last year with a Swedish army officer, he was pretty noncommital about it.

I also think folks missed a chance to revise the whole Treaty when the SU clearly fell apart.  It at least merited a discussion, I think.  Instead, folks cut defense spending to the bone and took the money elsewhere without changing the military requirements.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 20, 2024, 02:19:45 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 17, 2024, 10:12:22 AM

Dickface Putin is just plan evil.

Alexei Navalny, a thorn in Vladimir Putin's side, died. What does it mean for Russia? (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/alexei-navalny-a-thorn-in-vladimir-putins-side-died-what-does-it-mean-for-russia/ar-BB1inmrx)

meh. I'm not one who buys into the movie caricature baddie evil villain guy of every world leader who the US happens to be at odds with. Putin is a dictator. Basically a modern day king. Nothing more or less. Newsflash: those people tend to have people in their country who don't fall in line killed.

Every leader kills people. Every single one. Even ours. Zero leaders of nations have clean hands. And FYI, our leaders have more blood on their hands than most. I'd guess that few leaders in history have been pure evil. Sure there have been sick ones that seem to enjoy it and kill to ethnically cleanse- but those are few and far between- someone like Hitler obviously is plain evil- wanting to kill people just because they are Jewish, Polish, Gay, Handicap, etc.., pretty fcking sick and twisted. I don't see the evidence that Putin falls in line with this lot.

Alexei Navalny certainly did not deserve his fate, but Russia isn't a western democracy or some bastion of freedom. It's a dictatorship with limited rights. I'm sure Navalny knew this would eventually be his fate, and he had some serious cajones to stand up for what he believed in and speak out. And if you really look into the guy, he's not exactly a saint. Serious racist, ultra-white christian nationalist, xenophobe, and homophobe. Does that mean he deserved to be imprisoned and killed for criticizing Putin, yeah not saying that. Of course not. No one deserves that. But the guy wasn't some leftist flower power hero- he had very little to no support in Russia, his views on race, religion, and sexual orientation definitely were shall we say extreme- and seems to me like he was basically nothing but a useful tool of the filthy corrupt criminal organizations known as CIA/MI6.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 20, 2024, 02:21:49 PM

Quote from: Entropy on February 17, 2024, 10:17:41 AM

Putin has always been evil.  He's a con artist who deep down believes he's justified  in his atrocities.  He creates justifications of moral authority and those delusions are adopted by the Russian culture.

I typically lean right, but when it comes to Russia, I do not align with the idea he's misunderstood.  Russia is still what it was in the cold war.  They should never be trusted.

Every leader believes they are justified in their atrocities. I'm sure US Presidents/Senators definitely felt they were justified in destroying entire countries and killing millions of people in Vietnam (newsflash: they weren't), Iraq twice (newsflash: they weren't), Afghanistan (newsflash: they weren't), Libya (newsflash: they weren't), and Syria (newsflash: they weren't). 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 20, 2024, 02:29:08 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 20, 2024, 08:56:47 AM

Same here on the metal. There is only one on the block and it looks like those barrels, which I do not like at all. Metal is about 30% lighter, I'm told.

I'm thinking that the concrete tiles are best for hurricane protection. More down force on the roof would help keep it in place.

the ultra modern looking houses with flat roof look best to me imo. 

but on a standard home/roof- between shingle, tile, and metal- metal looks best in Florida imo. and metal is also best for hurricane protection. the tiles can become dangerous- wind will rip them right off and turn them into heavy concrete projectiles slamming into buildings & cars and wreaking havoc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2024, 02:50:39 PM

The bit coin thing appears to be gaining, again, which sort of worries me.  I have a very small position in the ether stuff (ETHE), I don't really understand the whole concept.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 20, 2024, 03:09:14 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 20, 2024, 02:29:08 PM

the ultra modern looking houses with flat roof look best to me imo.

but on a standard home/roof- between shingle, tile, and metal- metal looks best in Florida imo. and metal is also best for hurricane protection. the tiles can become dangerous- wind will rip them right off and turn them into heavy concrete projectiles slamming into buildings & cars and wreaking havoc.

Ian took about 5-6 barrel tiles from my roof, which was built in 1994. Those tiles probably ended up in your back yard over on that side.

Hah!

I like having more weight, and the flat tiles are more aerodynamic than the barrels. This roof is gonna be around long after I'm gone. I'm having it beefed up to Miami codes too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 20, 2024, 10:08:01 PM

FORT MYERS, Fla. —
The popular competition series, "Great Food Truck Race" by Food Network, will be filming an episode in Fort Myers on Wednesday, February 21st.

In this thrilling final episode, two food trucks will compete head-to-head, showcasing their culinary skills in a lively scene set at Centennial Park and downtown First Street.


From approximately 9 am to 11 am, Centennial Park will serve as the backdrop for host Tyler Florence's welcome to the final two chef teams, offering locals a chance to witness the excitement firsthand.

Following this, starting around 11:30 am, the food trucks will hit historic downtown First Street, filming and selling their delectable fare for several hours.

To make this episode memorable, the producers are seeking bustling crowds and enthusiastic patrons. Residents are encouraged to invite friends and family to join in the fun, savor delicious food, and potentially make an appearance on camera!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 20, 2024, 10:35:05 PM

Quote from: ELA on February 15, 2024, 12:16:10 AM

https://youtu.be/NpBPm0b9deQ?si=ZoMkMPCaXWSUaeQY

that was absolutely fcking hilarious. the guy seriously is the GOAT of political comedy in the US. it's not close. my god his first day back and already dropping haymakers. what a massive sea change from that bland unfunny flaccid penis Trevor Noah. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 20, 2024, 10:38:29 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/ubR6rzo.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 21, 2024, 12:04:24 AM

I don't love that branding but it's definitely clean.  I'd give it a try.  They should try a Vienna-style lager as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 21, 2024, 06:31:20 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 20, 2024, 10:35:05 PM

that was absolutely fcking hilarious. the guy seriously is the GOAT of political comedy in the US. it's not close. my god his first day back and already dropping haymakers. what a massive sea change from that bland unfunny flaccid penis Trevor Noah.

😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 21, 2024, 08:22:42 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 21, 2024, 12:04:24 AM

I don't love that branding but it's definitely clean.  I'd give it a try.  They should try a Vienna-style lager as well.

Yup, the animal names are brutal. 
Its like a 7 year old was in charge 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 21, 2024, 08:57:03 AM

An example of really clean branding, done well:

(https://i.imgur.com/ZGt8nDc.png)

Unfortunately their beer is just so-so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2024, 08:58:00 AM

Rock bands seemed to vie for ever more weird names, I guess beer is doing the same.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 21, 2024, 09:00:14 AM

Live Oak's branding isn't quite as clean, but it's fairly distinctive.  And the beer is world-class which is all that really matters to me:


(https://i.imgur.com/7oc72Ko.jpeg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 21, 2024, 09:01:09 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 21, 2024, 08:58:00 AM

Rock bands seemed to vie for ever more weird names, I guess beer is doing the same.

Absolutely, anything to try to stand out from a very large pack.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 21, 2024, 09:03:10 AM

young people ruining the world

just wait until today's 4th graders are in charge

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 21, 2024, 09:15:11 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 21, 2024, 09:03:10 AM

young people ruining the world

just wait until today's 4th graders are in charge

No wait required. They already are.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2024, 09:16:55 AM

What if we held a lottery every four years and winners would be "elected" to the House and Senate (each 6) and Presidency.  You'd need to be a US citizen and you'd need to enter the lottery.  You'd get chosen at random, each time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 21, 2024, 09:21:42 AM

I'd quit buying lotto tickets

save some $$$$

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2024, 10:28:13 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 21, 2024, 09:03:10 AM

young people ruining the world

just wait until today's 4th graders are in charge

yeah, not buying that at all. that has always been a line of horse shit. not when our entire gov't is literally geriatric central. Old Nancy SaggyTits, Chuckie the RatFck, Mitch Stroke-on-the-job, Elizabeth Pocahontas, Sass Queen Misses Lindsey Graham herself, and President Shits-His-Diapers are the ones with any real power running this country and simultaneously ruining this country and the world at large, and have been for oh, only decades. Literally.

The post wars/boomers inherited literally the greatest, most prosperous country on planet earth in recorded history. And proceeded to systematically fck it all up and destroy it within a couple decades. It's downright fcking astonishing and impressive at the staggering levels of ineptitude and corruption. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2024, 10:31:37 AM

I personally do not view the USA as being "destroyed" in any real sense.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2024, 10:45:38 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 21, 2024, 10:31:37 AM

I personally do not view the USA as being "destroyed" in any real sense.

$34 trillion in national debt and counting, completely broken and corrupt food & drug system, highest obesity rates in the world, highest infant mortality rate in the developed world, highest maternal mortality rate in the developed world, illegal immigrant crisis with immigrants invading a wide open border, highest levels of wealth/income inequality in the developed world and rising- at levels not seen since the 'roaring 20's, 4 decades plus of wage stagnation, people forced to take an experimental medical drug in order to keep their jobs, crumbling out-dated infrastructure, rampant homelessness, crime, & drug abuse in every major city in the country, completely broken health care system, completely broken higher education system, student debt & personal debt crisis constantly looming over an economy like a ticking time bomb, endless forever wars of occupation that have cost trillions of dollars and killed millions of people around the world, rampant inflation at the grocery store and gas pump, unaffordable home prices in any decent place to live, but yeah, things are A Oh fcking K and just mighty swell in this country.

the only people that think this country is just fine and dandy are those with their heads in the sand. This country can be so much better. It should be so much better. It isn't. Hmmm...wonder why that is that? Maybe because our leaders are god awful and the system has been completely and utterly corrupted by mega-corporations and their lobbyists. Unfortunately, money talks and bullsh*t walks in America in all things in life, but most especially when it comes to our politicians.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2024, 10:53:25 AM

I'm not into "absolutes" for most things.  The USA is still here, that isn't the same as claiming we have no major issues.  

My personal life is much the same as it was last year, the year before, and two decades back.  I'm in better financial shape, personally, than 20 years ago.  I can still choose to do this or do that in relative freedom.  The country still has elections of a sort, the area where I live is relatively safe and crime free, in fact, it's improving quite a bit overall, even since we moved here 6 years ago.  

I'm of he opinion that large enterprises of any ilk tend to, well, corruption, because self interest starts to override interest in the operation of whatever it is.  I saw plenty where I worked.  For a while, I thought other large companies would be better.  They aren't.  And I agree generally that out "System" is broken, has been broken, and will be broken, and yet somehow the country muddles along.

I've lived through worse times, and history is replete with worse times for this country.  I'd opine things continue to grind down, overally, the debt is a major concern for me, but the System is not going to change radically until some day when it really does collapse and we can say the USA no longer exists.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 21, 2024, 11:11:29 AM

Yup I've lived through worse times as well.  The only people clamoring that the sky is falling, are people who have some financial incentive to do so-- like putting eyeballs on their content, clicks into their webspace, listeners for their podcasts.  The usual suspects.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't remain vigilant and try to improve things.

Right now we should be sharply focused on China and its coming economic collapse that will have repercussions around the world.  Fortunately for us the 2020 pandemic already gave us a small preview of what that could look like and the smart money is making moves to mitigate those risks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 21, 2024, 11:12:48 AM

https://sports.yahoo.com/ashley-scoggin-former-nebraska-wbb-player-sues-over-inappropriate-relationship-192412156.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAEzVWGWO_99vp8zRvRkFAM4AKBKPyG_Ss1cByazVuAcNrAcci5SVavKDhUPPm-9SOdRJl8CyrJlE3EN_Klrp0schn8zqWy1zrgWmzttJvP8cSTvE1UP3bIX7nTKdqb3kk3lfGQ0x3A97D1B7Pe_iQAvYWz_7HZChTxT1la5yea9O

What is going on @FearlessF (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10) ?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 21, 2024, 04:00:01 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 21, 2024, 11:11:29 AM

Right now we should be sharply focused on China and its coming economic collapse that will have repercussions around the world.  Fortunately for us the 2020 pandemic already gave us a small preview of what that could look like and the smart money is making moves to mitigate those risks.

Pretty easy to see they are enemy #1, threat #1 to the United States' world hegemony and our way of life and have been for decades. And seems like all any hair-brained idiot politicians in this country want to talk about is Russia. China/CCP linked companies have increased their holdings of farmland outside of China by 1,000% in the last few years alone. Chinese ownership of US farmland has increased more than 20x from $81 million in 2010 to around $2 billion by 2022. To have the CCP owning any of our food supply is a national security risk imo. Much of said farm land they've bought up has been not far from US military bases as well. Red flag alert. Fastest growing sector of illegal immigrants crossing the US border from Mexico? Chinese. China is a major problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 21, 2024, 04:44:25 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 21, 2024, 04:00:01 PM

Pretty easy to see they are enemy #1, threat #1 to the United States' world hegemony and our way of life and have been for decades. And seems like all any hair-brained idiot politicians in this country want to talk about is Russia. China/CCP linked companies have increased their holdings of farmland outside of China by 1,000% in the last few years alone. Chinese ownership of US farmland has increased more than 20x from $81 million in 2010 to around $2 billion by 2022. To have the CCP owning any of our food supply is a national security risk imo. Much of said farm land they've bought up has been not far from US military bases as well. Red flag alert. Fastest growing sector of illegal immigrants crossing the US border from Mexico? Chinese. China is a major problem.

I'm not worried about the total volume of farmland that China owns within the USA.  If your figures are correct, than that still only represent about 0.05% of all US farmland.  It's not even mice nuts.  And even so, with the bottom dropping out of their real estate market and their top 2 commercial real estate companies failing spectacularly, their ability to support investment in foreign real estate is being cut off at the knees.

The strategic location of that land, and the border crossings, are definitely something I'd put a spotlight on and see if there's anything meaningful going on.

Overall though I'm far less worried about any of THAT, and more worried about what their egotistical autocrat of a dictator is going to do, as his economy fails around him. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 21, 2024, 07:15:17 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on February 21, 2024, 11:12:48 AM

https://sports.yahoo.com/ashley-scoggin-former-nebraska-wbb-player-sues-over-inappropriate-relationship-192412156.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAEzVWGWO_99vp8zRvRkFAM4AKBKPyG_Ss1cByazVuAcNrAcci5SVavKDhUPPm-9SOdRJl8CyrJlE3EN_Klrp0schn8zqWy1zrgWmzttJvP8cSTvE1UP3bIX7nTKdqb3kk3lfGQ0x3A97D1B7Pe_iQAvYWz_7HZChTxT1la5yea9O

What is going on @FearlessF (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10) ?

just a little ill advised relationship between player and asst coach

player thinks maybe there's some money to be made.
she's probably right

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 21, 2024, 07:23:26 PM

I wonder how many dozens (hundreds) of places this happens every year?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 21, 2024, 09:53:16 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/xrylPHl.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2024, 01:07:10 PM

A couple blocks over from me ...  I see this everywhere around us today.  I suspect it's getting over built, but we'll see.

(https://i.imgur.com/Wha2MOE.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 22, 2024, 02:32:56 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 21, 2024, 04:44:25 PM

Overall though I'm far less worried about any of THAT, and more worried about what their egotistical autocrat of a dictator is going to do, as his economy fails around him.

I'm worried about this:


Rubio warns Chinese cyberattack 'will be 100 times worse' than AT&T outage: 'Your power, your water' | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rubio-warns-chinese-cyberattack-will-be-100-times-worse-than-att-outage-power-water)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2024, 02:56:24 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 22, 2024, 02:32:56 PM

I'm worried about this:


Rubio warns Chinese cyberattack 'will be 100 times worse' than AT&T outage: 'Your power, your water' | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rubio-warns-chinese-cyberattack-will-be-100-times-worse-than-att-outage-power-water)

I'm not overly worried.  They're trying this stuff all day long, every day, 365.  Every now and then something gets through but it's not like they can try harder than they already do.  They've been doing this for decades now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 22, 2024, 03:06:05 PM

My wife had no cell service today.

A major pharmacy got hacked today too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 22, 2024, 03:08:02 PM

Roughly half of college graduates end up in jobs where their degrees aren’t needed, and that underemployment has lasting implications for workers’ earnings and career paths.

(https://i.imgur.com/ReTEqk1.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 22, 2024, 03:21:11 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 22, 2024, 02:56:24 PM

I'm not overly worried.  They're trying this stuff all day long, every day, 365.  Every now and then something gets through but it's not like they can try harder than they already do.  They've been doing this for decades now.

The CCP is prolly too paranoid or realizes their hackers just might turn on those Beijing slimeballs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2024, 03:39:23 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 22, 2024, 03:06:05 PM

My wife had no cell service today.

A major pharmacy got hacked today too.

And the cell service is already back up, most folks lost it for about 3 hours.

Like I said, one slips by every now and then.  They are throwing everything they have at us 24/7.  It's not like they can "step up the attacks."  They're doing this every day and have been for about the past two decades.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 22, 2024, 03:40:47 PM

Shouldn't this be considered an act of war?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2024, 03:41:36 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 22, 2024, 03:21:11 PM

The CCP is prolly too paranoid or realizes their hackers just might turn on those Beijing slimeballs

It's not beyond the realm of possibility.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2024, 03:45:45 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 22, 2024, 03:40:47 PM

Shouldn't this be considered an act of war?

It's absolutely an act of war.

But, how should we respond?  It's difficult to prove where an attack came from, it's highly technical, and if we publicly accuse them, they'll just deny it.

Should we respond in kind?  We don't really have any major divisions of the armed forces set up to do that, although I have zero doubt we have some secret orgs that are already doing it. That's about the most we can do, I think.

Well that, and make sure we maintain robust digital security for all sensitive infrastructure.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2024, 03:52:14 PM

https://twitter.com/ALostrich/status/1760737337888362747?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1760737337888362747%7Ctwgr%5E030e305be0567b8fd759d94db0fe1baab7ec2749%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FALostrich%2Fstatus%2F1760737337888362747%3Ft%3D4_AST362ohOB_AxH-iP6Dg26s%3D19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 22, 2024, 04:11:32 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 22, 2024, 03:45:45 PM

It's absolutely an act of war.

But, how should we respond?  It's difficult to prove where an attack came from, it's highly technical, and if we publicly accuse them, they'll just deny it.

Should we respond in kind?  We don't really have any major divisions of the armed forces set up to do that, although I have zero doubt we have some secret orgs that are already doing it. That's about the most we can do, I think.

Well that, and make sure we maintain robust digital security for all sensitive infrastructure. 

You're in the tech industry, so you clearly know more than most of us here.

How do "we" accomplish this?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 22, 2024, 05:10:01 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 22, 2024, 04:11:32 PM

You're in the tech industry, so you clearly know more than most of us here.

How do "we" accomplish this?

Who is "we" in this case? 

Individual enterprises (companies) should have a significant incentive already to maintain security. I'm not sure there is a "we" that has to do anything. It's the responsibility of the CIO/CSO (or equivalent position in smaller companies) to figure it out. That involves both security policies and employee training. Hell, about once every month or two I get an email that's designed to mimic a phishing attack and I hit the little "report phishing" button in Outlook, and get a congratulations email from our IT department for catching it. In that case there is no "we". And last year we went to a specific two-factor authentication protocol on top of existing security measures.

Anything owned by the government, it's the government's responsibility to make sure it is appropriately secure and hardened against attack. Same thing re: security policies and employee training. In that case the "we" is obvious--the government entity is responsible. 

As it relates to anything non-government involved in government contracting, utilities, "critical infrastructure", and the like? I'd probably make sure that all of those entities have either via regulation or via their contracts with the government, adequate cybersecurity protections and training programs in place and that they're regularly audited to remain in compliance. In this case the "we" is government, but indirectly via regulation of those third parties / critical infrastructure. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2024, 05:54:49 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 22, 2024, 04:11:32 PM

You're in the tech industry, so you clearly know more than most of us here.

How do "we" accomplish this?

Yeah it's really up to the government and the private companies that happen to own/maintain key infrastructure.  And the dangers aren't typically the mega-corps, they tend to have good security because it's in their best interests not to have downtime and/or lose billions of dollars.

The real security threats tend to creep up where you're not looking, or forget to look, like maybe there's a small bit player who is  a vendor to a city or maybe they contributed a piece of middleware a decade ago and it's so small that nobody thought to patch it over the years.  I'd say our local municipal power and water are the most vulnerable to attack, but even then, that's exactly what terrorist hackers are constantly trying to expose every day, anyway.  

It's not like a Russian or Chinese hacking group is waiting for some formal declaration of war to "get started."  They're already doing it.  They've been doing it for decades.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2024, 06:01:17 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 22, 2024, 05:10:01 PM

Who is "we" in this case?

Individual enterprises (companies) should have a significant incentive already to maintain security. I'm not sure there is a "we" that has to do anything. It's the responsibility of the CIO/CSO (or equivalent position in smaller companies) to figure it out. That involves both security policies and employee training. Hell, about once every month or two I get an email that's designed to mimic a phishing attack and I hit the little "report phishing" button in Outlook, and get a congratulations email from our IT department for catching it. In that case there is no "we". And last year we went to a specific two-factor authentication protocol on top of existing security measures.

Anything owned by the government, it's the government's responsibility to make sure it is appropriately secure and hardened against attack. Same thing re: security policies and employee training. In that case the "we" is obvious--the government entity is responsible.

As it relates to anything non-government involved in government contracting, utilities, "critical infrastructure", and the like? I'd probably make sure that all of those entities have either via regulation or via their contracts with the government, adequate cybersecurity protections and training programs in place and that they're regularly audited to remain in compliance. In this case the "we" is government, but indirectly via regulation of those third parties / critical infrastructure.

I shouldn't admit to this, it's embarrassing,  but a couple of years ago I actually got caught by one of our IT department's fake phishing emails.  It was really, REALLY well done.  But even so, I should have caught it.  Honestly our corporate filtering is so good that REAL ones never make it to me.

They warned me and said if I missed another one I'd get reported to my manager and have to go through some extended compliance training. Ugh.  Suffice to say I've never missed another one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 22, 2024, 06:25:25 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 22, 2024, 06:01:17 PM

I shouldn't admit to this, it's embarrassing,  but a couple of years ago I actually got caught by one of our IT department's fake phishing emails.  It was really, REALLY well done.  But even so, I should have caught it.  Honestly our corporate filtering is so good that REAL ones never make it to me.

They warned me and said if I missed another one I'd get reported to my manager and have to go through some extended compliance training. Ugh.  Suffice to say I've never missed another one.

I hear you. I *almost* got caught by one. Every other time I've spotted them just from the email and report, but I actually clicked the link on one because I wasn't thinking and didn't get the heebie-jeebies until then... Didn't put in my credentials though, so it doesn't count as a fail :57:

And nobody took away any of my access, so I guess they didn't think less of me lol...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2024, 06:29:16 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 22, 2024, 06:25:25 PM

I hear you. I *almost* got caught by one. Every other time I've spotted them just from the email and report, but I actually clicked the link on one because I wasn't thinking and didn't get the heebie-jeebies until then... Didn't put in my credentials though, so it doesn't count as a fail :57:

And nobody took away any of my access, so I guess they didn't think less of me lol...

They had me upon first click, didn't even get to a credentialing page, just a pop-up that said:

(https://i.imgur.com/UEwevkW.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 22, 2024, 06:37:22 PM

@847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) This is one of the biggest issues... Hacking security is hard. Fooling people is easy. Phishing schemes are getting more and more advanced (including becoming "spearphishing" where they're individually-targeted based on known information about the target--possibly often scraped from LinkedIn). 

It's easier to compromise people and bypass security than it is to compromise security. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 22, 2024, 06:38:35 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 22, 2024, 06:29:16 PM

They had me upon first click, didn't even get to a credentialing page, just a pop-up that said:

(https://i.imgur.com/UEwevkW.png)

LOL... They went Candace and Vanessa on your ass?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2024, 06:59:30 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 22, 2024, 06:38:35 PM

LOL... They went Candace and Vanessa on your ass?

Well, it's possible I added that bit of color myself, for the sake of a good story.  I'm sure it was something much more sterile and corporate.

HOWEVER

New Phineas and Ferb season coming sometime in 2024.  I'm so excited!  We're gonna throw a themed/costume party for the debut, my daughter already has a Perry onesie, and I'm sure I can find a white lab coat somewhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 22, 2024, 07:27:07 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 22, 2024, 06:59:30 PM

Well, it's possible I added that bit of color myself, for the sake of a good story.  I'm sure it was something much more sterile and corporate.

HOWEVER

New Phineas and Ferb season coming sometime in 2024.  I'm so excited!  We're gonna throw a themed/costume party for the debut, my daughter already has a Perry onesie, and I'm sure I can find a white lab coat somewhere.

LOL... My oldest (16) has traded in Phineas and Ferb for physics videos on YouTube. My middle child (14) is all-in on Star Wars. And the youngest (11), well, all she cares about at this point is Taylor Swift. 

I did always enjoy Phineas and Ferb perhaps more than I should have at my age when the kids were still watching it, though...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2024, 07:35:09 PM

Oh yeah, my kids have all kinds of new interests now, but they're still excited about a new season.  My brother and his wife are the ones that turned us on to the series, and my niece and my kids watched it together all the time (along with my brother and his wife).  We always got together especially for the movies or hour-long episodes.

Anyway, it's all kind of tongue in cheek but when we heard they were bringing it back, we decided we'd throw a theme party, for nostalgia if nothing else.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 23, 2024, 06:12:46 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 22, 2024, 05:54:49 PM

The real security threats tend to creep up where you're not looking, or forget to look, like maybe there's a small bit player who is  a vendor to a city or maybe they contributed a piece of middleware a decade ago and it's so small that nobody thought to patch it over the years.

Something like this happened I believe it was around here like 10-15 yrs ago. With a local Target if I'm recalling correctly.And it involved a HVAC company who getting paid from them for contract work.Turns out that company's security had been compromised and the hacks got past their clients security and grabbed a bunch of credit card info and such

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 23, 2024, 07:49:24 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 22, 2024, 06:25:25 PM

I hear you. I *almost* got caught by one. Every other time I've spotted them just from the email and report, but I actually clicked the link on one because I wasn't thinking and didn't get the heebie-jeebies until then... Didn't put in my credentials though, so it doesn't count as a fail :57:

And nobody took away any of my access, so I guess they didn't think less of me lol...

I solved this problem by barely reading my email.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2024, 07:51:16 AM

My cousin's husband was in the computer side of a large bank here back in the day.  I recall him chatting about how folks try and break their security ~20 years ago, broadly, it was interesting.  It was a nonstop effort by their department.

The blackmail attempt apparently just hit Fulton County, it's not known if the county paid ransom or not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 23, 2024, 09:17:58 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on February 23, 2024, 06:12:46 AM

Something like this happened I believe it was around here like 10-15 yrs ago. With a local Target if I'm recalling correctly.And it involved a HVAC company who getting paid from them for contract work.Turns out that company's security had been compromised and the hacks got past their clients security and grabbed a bunch of credit card info and such

Yup, you gotta find the weakest link, which is likely going to be the least invested party in the final security solution.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2024, 09:57:01 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 23, 2024, 09:17:58 AM

Yup, you gotta find the weakest link, which is likely going to be the least invested party in the final security solution.

Yep. And this is why you should NEVER use the same password for multiple web sites. If you do, you are exposing every single website using those credentials to the weakest link website's security. 

Ever wonder why your employer makes you change passwords every 90 days (or whatever)? Because of this. They know lazy people use the same password all over the place, but you're unlikely to change your OTHER passwords every 90 days to keep up with this one, so by forcing you to change it often it nearly guarantees it'll be unique. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 23, 2024, 09:58:55 AM

hate friggin passwords

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2024, 01:22:31 PM

Pregnant great white shark washes up on Florida beach (winknews.com) (https://winknews.com/2024/02/23/great-white-shark-pregnant-florida-beach/?utm_source=winknewsapp&utm_medium=pushalert&utm_campaign=2024-02-23-Just-In)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 23, 2024, 02:43:17 PM

pregnant great white shark - could be my next password, but no special characters or numbers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2024, 02:45:11 PM

I wonder if the sharks get as far West in the Gulf as Texas and Mexico. Never heard much about that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2024, 03:42:34 PM

[color=var(--COEmY)]Tokyo, Japan is 14 hours ahead of Eastern Time[/color]

3:41 PM Friday, in Eastern Time is
5:41 AM Saturday, Tokyo, Japan (GMT+9)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2024, 04:05:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 23, 2024, 03:42:34 PM

[color=var(--COEmY)]Tokyo, Japan is 14 hours ahead of Eastern Time[/color]

3:41 PM Friday, in Eastern Time is
5:41 AM Saturday, Tokyo, Japan (GMT+9)

Yeah, a good portion of life in a multinational corporation is "who gets to be shafted by the weird time for a conference call this week?"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 23, 2024, 05:59:49 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 23, 2024, 02:45:11 PM

I wonder if the sharks get as far West in the Gulf as Texas and Mexico. Never heard much about that.

Fishing West Bay in Galveston with my dad we were wade fishing with several fish on our stringers

we had a hammerhead make several circles around us at a distance of 50 feet

Most of the time these guys will go away but this time he didnt

My Dad made me tie my stringer to the end of my fishing rod as he did also

We then walked slowly back to the boat about 200 feet away holding our fish well away from us

Fortunately nothing happened as we go back to our boat without incident

While shark attacks are rare in Galveston they do happen

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2024, 06:48:26 PM

If you like reading check out John Sanford.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 23, 2024, 08:46:11 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 23, 2024, 09:57:01 AM

Yep. And this is why you should NEVER use the same password for multiple web sites. If you do, you are exposing every single website using those credentials to the weakest link website's security.

Ever wonder why your employer makes you change passwords every 90 days (or whatever)? Because of this. They know lazy people use the same password all over the place, but you're unlikely to change your OTHER passwords every 90 days to keep up with this one, so by forcing you to change it often it nearly guarantees it'll be unique.

P@$$w0rd!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2024, 06:21:40 AM

We stopped by a construction site during one of our strolls and watched them pouring concrete.  It's impressive to me the coordination needed for this, they had concrete trucks lined up ready to feed the pourer, and as one finished and left, another would show up, all during midday traffic.  This building is barely at ground level for now but slated to get pretty tall so should be fun to watch.  I couldn't guess how many tons of concrete are needed, along with rebar and steel "posts" and then glass panels and all the rest.

(https://i.imgur.com/G8uu2Ft.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 24, 2024, 09:21:35 AM

I wonder if anyone has ever sued Cambell's, because there is really no way to get all of the cream of _______ soup out of the can. So, you're not really getting 12 oz, or whatever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on February 24, 2024, 09:33:51 AM

Hmm,  a tort claim for unreasonably high levels of viscosity.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 24, 2024, 09:41:44 AM

Yeah, but it'll keep your engine going for another 100 miles in a pinch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 24, 2024, 10:22:32 AM

Quote from: MarqHusker on February 24, 2024, 09:33:51 AM

Hmm,  a tort claim for unreasonably high levels of viscosity.

You taking the case then?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 24, 2024, 10:50:28 AM

We've been to the one at St. Armond's Circle and it is really great food.

Florida landmark, Columbia Restaurant, flavored by 'passionate, patriotic' immigrant experience | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/florida-landmark-columbia-restaurant-flavored-passionate-patriotic-immigrant-experience)

Home | Columbia Restaurant (https://www.columbiarestaurant.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2024, 11:55:57 AM

This is our music director, she's French.

(https://i.imgur.com/UWhKvp1.png)

Nathalie Stutzmann, conductor and contralto (https://nathaliestutzmann.com/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2024, 12:27:40 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/OC47iKN.png)+

Biomolecules such as amino acids and sugars occur in two mirror-image forms—in all living organisms, however, only one is ever found.

Magnetic effects at the origin of life? It's the spin that makes the difference (phys.org) (https://phys.org/news/2024-02-magnetic-effects-life-difference.html?fbclid=IwAR3VCHz_GsB0ufi1GXakCAGHpWR2YR69s7fhS4oyk-QgyWBg85yNkkVtHIU)

The so-called homochirality of life—the fact that all biomolecules in living organisms only ever occur in one of two mirror-image forms—has puzzled a number of scientific luminaries, from the discoverer of molecular chirality, Louis Pasteur, to William Thomson (Lord Kelvin) and Nobel Prize winner Pierre Curie.

A conclusive explanation is still lacking, as both forms have, for instance, the same chemical stability (https://phys.org/tags/chemical+stability/) and do not differ from each other in their physicochemical properties. The hypothesis, however, that the interplay between electric and magnetic fields could explain the preference for one or the other mirror-image form of a molecule—so-called enantiomers—emerged early on.

It was only a few years ago, though, that the first indirect evidence emerged that the various combinations of these force fields can indeed "distinguish" between the two mirror images of a molecule. This was achieved by studying the interaction of chiral molecules with metallic surfaces (https://phys.org/tags/metallic+surfaces/) that exhibit a strong electric field over short distances.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 24, 2024, 12:58:52 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 24, 2024, 11:55:57 AM

This is our music director, she's French.

(https://i.imgur.com/UWhKvp1.png)

Nathalie Stutzmann, conductor and contralto (https://nathaliestutzmann.com/)

Of course. With a name like Stutzmann, what else could she be? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on February 25, 2024, 06:34:18 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 23, 2024, 05:59:49 PM

Fishing West Bay in Galveston with my dad we were wade fishing with several fish on our stringers

we had a hammerhead make several circles around us at a distance of 50 feet

Most of the time these guys will go away but this time he didnt

My Dad made me tie my stringer to the end of my fishing rod as he did also

We then walked slowly back to the boat about 200 feet away holding our fish well away from us

Fortunately nothing happened as we go back to our boat without incident

While shark attacks are rare in Galveston they do happen

I love fishing and wade fishing.  But sometimes spooky stuff can happen in the water.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 25, 2024, 07:04:35 PM

Sharks can swim pretty fast. 

They tend to suffer in the other two legs of a triathlon, though. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 25, 2024, 07:14:03 PM

What's the lowdown on Peruvian food? I tried some last week, and it was pretty good. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 25, 2024, 07:36:04 PM

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on February 25, 2024, 07:14:03 PM

What's the lowdown on Peruvian food? I tried some last week, and it was pretty good.

Soooooo good... Kind of a cultural fusion cuisine of a bunch of different sources... South American (obv), but with some Asian influence, and almost Italian at times (i.e. a lot of noodles/spaghetti). 

I attached a recipe we make often. It's a nicely-spiced beef dish stir fried with vegetables (red onion, tomatoes, scallions, chile pepper), with a slightly thickened sauce using red wine, soy sauce, and beef broth, and then tossed with spaghetti noodles. 

Freakin' delicious. Below picture is actually our version. 

(https://i.imgur.com/DuVnzyV.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 26, 2024, 11:27:39 AM

Sylvester Stallone ditched California for Florida. He says it's a personal move, but he'll likely enjoy the lower taxes, too. (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/sylvester-stallone-ditched-california-for-florida-he-says-its-a-personal-move-but-hell-likely-enjoy-the-lower-taxes-too/ar-BB1iUgSb)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 26, 2024, 11:31:28 AM

I didn't know Guy Fieri moved to Florida.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 26, 2024, 11:32:50 AM

everybody is moving there

except the Texans

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 26, 2024, 11:40:48 AM

yep everybody should move to Florida not Texas

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 26, 2024, 02:37:38 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 26, 2024, 11:40:48 AM

yep everybody should move to Florida not Texas

I agree. Need more US House seats over here. ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 26, 2024, 05:27:05 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 25, 2024, 07:36:04 PM

Soooooo good... Kind of a cultural fusion cuisine of a bunch of different sources... South American (obv), but with some Asian influence, and almost Italian at times (i.e. a lot of noodles/spaghetti).

I attached a recipe we make often. It's a nicely-spiced beef dish stir fried with vegetables (red onion, tomatoes, scallions, chile pepper), with a slightly thickened sauce using red wine, soy sauce, and beef broth, and then tossed with spaghetti noodles.

Freakin' delicious. Below picture is actually our version.

(https://i.imgur.com/DuVnzyV.png)

there are a bunch of peruvian places in south florida, and well they are pretty awesome. most of them here seem to be pretty much latin/asian fusion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 26, 2024, 05:27:38 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 26, 2024, 11:40:48 AM

yep everybody should move to Florida not Texas

no. Florida sucks. move to Texas everyone. please.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2024, 05:44:38 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 26, 2024, 05:27:38 PM

no. Florida sucks. move to Texas everyone. please.

Hmmm just counting posters on this message board, I'm curious where our stats end up.

As far as I know MDT is the only poster who currently lives in Texas but isn't from here. lh320, Tulip, UTErin, and I, are all from Texas originally.

And then there's Florida, where badgerfan, HonestBuckeye, and MDot are all transplants.  Am I missing anyone?

So by my count, the state of Florida is "winning" this race 3-1. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 26, 2024, 06:28:56 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 26, 2024, 11:27:39 AM

Sylvester Stallone ditched California for Florida. He says it's a personal move, but he'll likely enjoy the lower taxes, too. (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/sylvester-stallone-ditched-california-for-florida-he-says-its-a-personal-move-but-hell-likely-enjoy-the-lower-taxes-too/ar-BB1iUgSb)

pretty much anyone with the means to get the f out has ditched California. it's a sinking shithole.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 26, 2024, 06:29:45 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 26, 2024, 11:31:28 AM

I didn't know Guy Fieri moved to Florida.

didn't know that either, but I know he has restaurants in Orlando.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 26, 2024, 07:10:51 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 26, 2024, 05:27:05 PM

there are a bunch of peruvian places in south florida, and well they are pretty awesome. most of them here seem to be pretty much latin/asian fusion.

Yeah, the crazy thing about Peruvian is that it's sorta organically latin/asian fusion. Peru, like a lot of places on the West Coast of North America, ended up with a lot of Chinese laborer immigrants in the mid-1800s (https://perusim.com/blog/chinese-cultural-influence-peru/). That ended up infusing into the culture, including the cuisine. So you end up with influences that you wouldn't find in a lot of other South American cuisine. 

I think a lot of people if you asked them about fusion cuisine between Latin and Asian cooking might be "uhhh, huh? You mean beyond kimchi tacos (https://kogibbq.com/)?" But turns out it's really freakin' good. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 26, 2024, 07:17:10 PM

There's a restaurant here in Austin that does Tex-Mex/Hawaiian fusion.  It's pretty great.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 26, 2024, 08:22:46 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 26, 2024, 02:37:38 PM

I agree. Need more US House seats over here. ;)

I'm guessing Texas is more red.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 26, 2024, 09:47:59 PM

Widow of top Warren Buffett investor donates $1 billion to cover tuition for all future students of Albert Einstein College of Medicine

https://fortune.com/2024/02/26/ruth-gottesman-david-sandy-warren-buffett-albert-einstein-college-of-medicine-bronx/ (https://fortune.com/2024/02/26/ruth-gottesman-david-sandy-warren-buffett-albert-einstein-college-of-medicine-bronx/)

some billionaires are good people - most simply wives of billionaires

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 27, 2024, 06:50:53 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on February 26, 2024, 08:22:46 PM

I'm guessing Texas is more red.

I think that has changed.

In 2022, Abbott got 54% of the vote. DeSantis got 60%.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 27, 2024, 06:58:04 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 26, 2024, 07:10:51 PM

Yeah, the crazy thing about Peruvian is that it's sorta organically latin/asian fusion. Peru, like a lot of places on the West Coast of North America, ended up with a lot of Chinese laborer immigrants in the mid-1800s (https://perusim.com/blog/chinese-cultural-influence-peru/). That ended up infusing into the culture, including the cuisine. So you end up with influences that you wouldn't find in a lot of other South American cuisine.

I think a lot of people if you asked them about fusion cuisine between Latin and Asian cooking might be "uhhh, huh? You mean beyond kimchi tacos (https://kogibbq.com/)?" But turns out it's really freakin' good.

Exactly. We too have a good number of choices for Peruvian. It's great stuff.

One of the biggest disappointments during Covid was our cruise being cancelled. Lima to Miami. We were going to Lima 3 days early. Sucks.

It was cancelled on March 13, a week before we were to go (March 20). The people who were on the ship from Argentina to Lima got our cruise for free (minus the stops, but still got the Panama Canal). Nobody tested positive when the ship debarked in Miami.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 27, 2024, 07:28:16 AM

https://www.wsj.com/economy/consumers/food-is-taking-a-bite-out-of-your-income-these-consumers-are-getting-creative-e51a3d46?st=ph8gi23q1iesknb&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink


My takeaway here is that while some are eating differently than in the past, some are also having to decide between eating or medicine.

We give to the local food bank of our choice, but not as much as we used to.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2024, 07:44:35 AM

Our trip to Istanbul was cancelled due to COVID, but we just rebooked it for September, which will be my zero birthday while we're there.  We'll have a side trip for 2 days to the Dardanelles.

Going to places like Peru takes more bravery than I have ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 27, 2024, 08:25:05 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 24, 2024, 09:21:35 AM

I wonder if anyone has ever sued Cambell's, because there is really no way to get all of the cream of _______ soup out of the can. So, you're not really getting 12 oz, or whatever.

Sure there is use a paint mixer attached to a drill a few hints of behr's interior latex never hurt anyone

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 27, 2024, 09:43:38 AM

This is real.

Florida Condo Prices Drop as Insurance Crisis Deepens (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/florida-condo-prices-drop-as-insurance-crisis-deepens/ar-BB1iW0Xm?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=32a2ffb5a9b247c595f023f2b8faeb8c&ei=17)

My insurance went up 40 percent this year. Just got the bill.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on February 27, 2024, 11:16:57 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 26, 2024, 05:44:38 PM

Hmmm just counting posters on this message board, I'm curious where our stats end up.

As far as I know MDT is the only poster who currently lives in Texas but isn't from here. lh320, Tulip, UTErin, and I, are all from Texas originally.

And then there's Florida, where badgerfan, HonestBuckeye, and MDot are all transplants.  Am I missing anyone?

So by my count, the state of Florida is "winning" this race 3-1. :)

Ahem. 

I can trace some of my people back to 1850 when they got off the boat in Galveston. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2024, 11:23:13 AM

My kid just moved from near Austin to Columbus, OH, so there's one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2024, 11:42:57 AM

Quote from: Gigem on February 27, 2024, 11:16:57 AM

Ahem.

I can trace some of my people back to 1850 when they got off the boat in Galveston.

AAARRRGGHHH!  Sorry Gigem!  My deepest apologies, and of course you are a native son of the land.

Shiner rarely posts around here anymore but he, too, is a native Texican.

Still leaves us at 3-1, Florida is "winning" the "New Additions" game.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2024, 11:44:09 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2024, 11:23:13 AM

My kid just moved from near Austin to Columbus, OH, so there's one.

Thank You For Your Support :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on February 27, 2024, 11:53:17 AM

Quote from: utee94 on February 27, 2024, 11:42:57 AM

AAARRRGGHHH!  Sorry Gigem!  My deepest apologies, and of course you are a native son of the land.

Shiner rarely posts around here anymore but he, too, is a native Texican.

Still leaves us at 3-1, Florida is "winning" the "New Additions" game.

Yeah, I noticed you only listed 'horn posters as native Texans, even the ones who are rarely seen here anymore.  
:) 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2024, 01:48:41 PM

AND this is just one of many reasons why I hate NATO and wish we would just fcking dissolve it already.

French leader/smelly dirty euro trash bitchboy cumstain Emmanuel Macron pops off at the mouth and says he is ruling nothing out, including sending troops on the ground to stop Russia from "winning" the war in Ukraine. Russia immediately responds and says NATO troops would essentially = making a third world war inevitable.

The German Chancellor, German defense minister, White House, and NATO Secretary general all immediately said Macron is tripping and there are no plans to send boots on the ground and that there basically never will be.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2024, 01:57:04 PM

Macron says ‘nothing ruled out,’ including using Western troops, to stop Russia winning Ukraine war | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/27/europe/france-macron-troops-ukraine-intl/index.html)

Sounds like just talk, nothing real in it.  "Nothing should be ruled out" is just talk.

Though the possibility of Western democracies putting boots on the ground in Ukraine remains remote, Macron’s comments following a summit in support of Ukraine prompted a hawkish response from the Kremlin and sent European leaders scrambling to backtrack. A NATO official told CNN the alliance had “no plans” to deploy combat troops in Ukraine.

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, who attended the meeting in Paris on Monday, said that while there was a good debate and detailed discussion on the topic, summit participants were “unanimous” in their opinion against deploying troops

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2024, 02:02:47 PM

The French can send troops without it being a NATO action.  Only a Russian incursion into NATO space would trigger Article 5.

France and other Euro nations can do whatever they like, as long as they don't involve NATO.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 27, 2024, 02:19:35 PM

Just listed in my neighborhood:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/26769-Avenida-Shonto-Mission-Viejo-CA-92691/25627796_zpid/

I don't know that they'll get $1.65M for it in this neighborhood. The remodel makes it look completely unlike anything else in the entire development, and even with that square footage that's MILES higher than anything here has recently sold for. The only other full reno is a little smaller, and only got $1.24M...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2024, 02:26:22 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 27, 2024, 02:19:35 PM

Just listed in my neighborhood:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/26769-Avenida-Shonto-Mission-Viejo-CA-92691/25627796_zpid/

I don't know that they'll get $1.65M for it in this neighborhood. The remodel makes it look completely unlike anything else in the entire development, and even with that square footage that's MILES higher than anything here has recently sold for. The only other full reno is a little smaller, and only got $1.24M...

That's a really nice house and a nice reno.  Lots of quality and expensive materials and finishes used.  Only design choice I question is the stair railing, I don't think it matches the overall design aesthetic and it looks comparatively cheap, like, I think it's the exact same one used in my kids' high school.

Closer to the peak, a year ago, that house would have gone for probably $1.2M-$1.3M in my neighborhood. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2024, 02:59:05 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2024, 01:57:04 PM

Macron says ‘nothing ruled out,’ including using Western troops, to stop Russia winning Ukraine war | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/27/europe/france-macron-troops-ukraine-intl/index.html)

Sounds like just talk, nothing real in it.  "Nothing should be ruled out" is just talk.

Yeah, it's not just talk. It's completely irresponsible and downright asinine especially since it's coming from someone who should really just keep his mouth shut and go sit at the kids table while the grown ups talk as he is nothing more than an errand boy bitch of the United States. 

US leaders are the only one who should be talking about this at all. Not the smelly euro trash french bitchboy midget that has a thing for grandmas. He ought to keep his god damn mouth shut and not throw even a hint of fumes on an already burning fire.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2024, 03:05:27 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 27, 2024, 02:02:47 PM

The French can send troops without it being a NATO action. Only a Russian incursion into NATO space would trigger Article 5.

France and other Euro nations can do whatever they like, as long as they don't involve NATO.

except he didn't say french troops, he said Western troops, which implies NATO troops.

The French ain't sending shit in the way of troops. They are barely even sending monetary support and weapons to Ukraine as is. This is tantamount to like your scrawny stupid bitch of a cousin talking mad shit and popping off at the mouth because he knows his cousin is the biggest baddest mf on the block. It's a bitch move, really.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2024, 03:12:42 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 27, 2024, 03:05:27 PM

The French ain't sending shit in the way of troops. They are barely even sending monetary support and weapons to Ukraine as is.

Right.  So why are you getting all spun up about it?

You, more than any other poster I've encountered on any other message board I've ever frequented, going back to my BBS days in the 80s, seem to constantly be looking for something to be angry about. 

Approaching things like that would absolutely wear me out, but you have to do you, as they say.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2024, 03:17:49 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 17, 2024, 10:12:22 AM

Dickface Putin is just plan evil.

Alexei Navalny, a thorn in Vladimir Putin's side, died. What does it mean for Russia? (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/alexei-navalny-a-thorn-in-vladimir-putins-side-died-what-does-it-mean-for-russia/ar-BB1inmrx)

kind of crazy, thought for sure he was probably executed in jail as you know dictator gonna dictator, but Ukraine's top spy- the head of the Main Directorate of Intelligence- says that Navalny died of natural causes- a blood clot. WSJ also reporting that Navalny was going to be a part of a prisoner swap for a Russian hitman that Germany is holding in prison. WSJ isn't exactly a bastion of reporting, but it's at least significantly more credible/reliable than say the New York Times or Washington Post.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2024, 03:41:29 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 27, 2024, 03:12:42 PM

You, more than any other poster I've encountered on any other message board I've ever frequented, going back to my BBS days in the 80s, seem to constantly be looking for something to be angry about. 

He might have a bit of competition on the "other board" at times, but they are more negative about life than angry, in my view.  I was kind of "angry" about life when I was much younger.  Oddly enough, an event that merited being very very angry, and I was for a bit, changed me around.

I don't waste time chasing around the interwebz looking for such stuff about which I can only be angry, call people names, and use profanity.  The real world is challenging enough without invoking weird conspiracy notions all day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2024, 03:51:09 PM

Apple pulls the plug on it's electric car. They've spent about a decade and who knows how many countless billions on the project in R&D. Probably should've just bought Tesla when they had the chance like 7-8 years ago for what would've been pennies on the dollar now....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2024, 04:16:23 PM

I suspected my son in law was working on the Apple car.  He knows a ton about cars, and works for them.  He won't talk about work.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2024, 04:25:49 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 27, 2024, 04:16:23 PM

I suspected my son in law was working on the Apple car.  He knows a ton about cars, and works for them.  He won't talk about work.

have a cousin who worked on it, he told me they made everyone sign NDA's and they were explicitly not allowed to talk about it.  only thing he told me was that the car was freaking ugly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2024, 04:27:51 PM

Seemed like a pretty severe mismatch of core competency vs. product deliverable.  And a pretty arrogant play for a market they don't belong in.

But hey, at times Apple's hubris has been the secret to its success, so ya never know.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2024, 04:35:24 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 27, 2024, 04:27:51 PM

Seemed like a pretty severe mismatch of core competency vs. product deliverable.  And a pretty arrogant play for a market they don't belong in.

But hey, at times Apple's hubris has been the secret to its success, so ya never know.

Apple had more cash on hand than most small countries GDPs at one point and could've bought Tesla, Netflix, and Disney in cash and still had cash left over. Instead....CEO Tim Cook's big acquisition was a company that made overpriced shitty headphones for $3 billion.

Apple already is a freaking machine that prints money, but to think what it'd be had it scooped up Tesla and Netflix when they had the chance is a little scary.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2024, 04:38:23 PM

I've had stock in Apple for a few years, am glad I did.  They stalled out a bit of late.  My financial adviser on back didn't want to buy Costco, said it was too expensive, but when I took over, I bought some, and then some more, glad I did.  Costco has been a rocket of late.  I wrote some call options on them as I thought they were over bought, and then they went up near the strike price in a week.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 27, 2024, 05:01:56 PM

I find it astounding that Apple is as much a "lifestyle brand" as it is an electronics company. People with iPhone/iPad/MacBook/Airpods think they're cooler than those "nerds" who buy Android / PC.

You know who is most proud to let everyone else know which electronics they buy? "Nerds". 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 27, 2024, 05:11:27 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 27, 2024, 04:27:51 PM

Seemed like a pretty severe mismatch of core competency vs. product deliverable.  And a pretty arrogant play for a market they don't belong in.

never made sense to me that they would even try to get into the headache and absolute landmine that is manufacturing automobiles. 

what also never made sense to me is Apple never went after the gaming console market. they have such a loyal fanboy fanatical fan base and they are the cool "hip" tech company of the entire world. the odds they'd overtake the kingshit of that market Sony are pretty high imo. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2024, 05:18:55 PM

Profit margins on gaming consoles are a lot lower than what Apple typically likes to see in its hardware business.  I'm not sure they'd be able to command the same premium on an Apple PS/XBox competitor, that they do for their core PC and mobile products.  Maybe if they'd grown up as a brand alongside Sony and Sega and Nintendo and Microsoft, they might have been able to establish a premium brand.

I don't know much about the gaming industry but I'm guessing the content is the most important part.  So your hardware platform has to support the games that people want, and if you try to go all in-house closed ecosystem in gaming, as Apple does in the personal computing world, I'm not sure that gamers would follow them simply because they're Apple.  Not now, anyway.  Maybe if they'd established that as part of their brand 30 years ago, then they could command the kind of premium margins they like to see.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 27, 2024, 05:19:11 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on February 27, 2024, 05:11:27 PM

never made sense to me that they would even try to get into the headache and absolute landmine that is manufacturing automobiles.

Admittedly if the target was an L5 self-driving vehicle, that's the damn white whale of automotive tech. 

If that's not what Apple was working on, then everyone involved in the decision-making path to invest should be fired. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 27, 2024, 06:50:42 PM

Imma get me one of those Alibaba cars....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 27, 2024, 11:40:34 PM

the electric car might not make it too much further into the future

batteries seem to be a problem

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on February 27, 2024, 11:45:51 PM

Batteries were always going to be the problem.  Our advances in technology for something like microprocessors has been exponentially larger and faster than our advances in battery technology over the same timespan.

Comparing battery technology to something like transistor fabrication, batteries are effectively not too far removed jamming two dissimilar metals into a potato and calling it a day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 28, 2024, 07:07:29 AM

Apple sucks. That is all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 28, 2024, 07:23:06 AM

Hyundai is building a huge EV plant in GA, it should be running by end of year, or so I read.  They all put a ton of money into EVs.  They may be wrong, longer term, I certainly don't know that.  No doubt government pressure is a factor.

Norway is a good example of having a large EV infrastructure (government incentives were significant).  It can work, at least in Norway.

Twenty or so years back I attended a seminar our battery people put on for the unwashed masses like me.  The issues were daunting in terms of putting more storage capacity into a small volume and having it be stable and durable.  They were intended to be "duracells" so to speak.

It means a lot of reactive chemistry in a small vessel, no way around that.  I said "huh".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on February 28, 2024, 07:30:02 AM

The key thing that is missing is that while battery capacity has increased incrementally the price has dropped by a good amount every year. The last figure I saw a few years ago is that the price has dropped 10% every year since 2013. 

Even if the capacity never goes up 10% with current technology, battery powered cars will get cheaper and cheaper until they are on par with ICE and then fall below it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 28, 2024, 07:31:03 AM

Meanwhile, hybrids today are a decent option, I think (obviously, since I bought one).  A downside is quite a bit more complexity and some additional cost.  The upside aside from better mpg in town is better acceleration (usually).  And while the "news" has a lot in it about EVs not meeting goals, sales are still increasing pretty steeply.

But as I've said, it'll be a while before seeing an EV on the road isn't a kind of near novelty, I'd guess we're near 5% around here., one in 20.  It's not much higher in Europe aside from Norway.  And of course we see some utilities going pretty hard for unreliable wind and solar and wonder where all the juice can come from if the wind don't blow at night.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 28, 2024, 08:32:45 AM

Quote from: Gigem on February 28, 2024, 07:30:02 AM

The key thing that is missing is that while battery capacity has increased incrementally the price has dropped by a good amount every year. The last figure I saw a few years ago is that the price has dropped 10% every year since 2013.

Even if the capacity never goes up 10% with current technology, battery powered cars will get cheaper and cheaper until they are on par with ICE and then fall below it.

cheaper for initial purchase

but, if the battery needs to be replaced after 12 years..............

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 28, 2024, 08:35:04 AM

Not only after 12 years, but the range will of course degrade over time, maybe 3-5% each year depending.  So your lofty 300 mile range turns into ~200 miles in ~7-8 years?


The deal breaker for me is the cost to charge away from home.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 28, 2024, 08:35:18 AM

That was easy!

(https://i.imgur.com/gPj6gvs.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on February 28, 2024, 08:37:30 AM

there are a significant number of vehicles on the road today that are older than 15 years

I can see why the automakers would want to bring that number down and force folks to buy new much more often

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 28, 2024, 08:44:25 AM

I think they'd prefer batteries lasted longer, but they don't.  I don't know about suspension components, tires are said to wear faster.  The EVs are heavy vehicles.  Designwise, when you add weight, you have to add more weight to support that additional weight.

I don't see EVs taking over, so to speak, for many many years, at best (?).  The number will creep up of course, but it will take a while even if government requires new cars to be EVs by 2035 (which I suspect gets modified).  One projection says HALF by 2050, and that may be optimistic.

The first barrier I suspect will be getting two car HHs to have one of them be an EV, which might work for most.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 28, 2024, 08:56:23 AM

Do we have an electric car thread?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 28, 2024, 09:06:13 AM

had the EV Porsche for like a week and got rid of it. range on a full charge is only 240ish miles, which is a joke and you won't get anywhere close to that if you really drive it, because the battery life drains fast if you actually punch it and enjoy it. car is seriously gorgeous and the interior is beautiful and it's fast as hell, but...it sucks.

you have to download an app on your phone to find the fast chargers that are compatible, you can't just go to a Tesla supercharger station- which seem to be everywhere- and when you do find the compatible fast chargers there are lines sometimes for the chargers and you have to wait a long time to use them. takes like 40-50 minutes to charge from 38-40% to 95+% on the fast chargers- and who has time to do this all the time? and it's not cheap, about $16-$17 every time you have to charge, and you'll have to charge like every other day if you really drive it- which adds up. 

EVs are just not practical. At all. Range sucks on pretty much all of them except the long range Teslas. The charging infrastructure isn't there in the public- except for Tesla. EVs only make sense if you have the charging set up in your garage and you can charge the car every night and if you are only driving the EV locally maybe 40-50 miles a day. If you really drive and drive all around- an EV sucks.

I'd never get an EV, but if I did I would only get a Tesla. Even though I feel like the Tesla isn't that great looking and the interior of all their cars are complete and utter garbage. They just have better tech, better batteries and range, and better infrastructure for the charging in the public than any other company making EVs and it's not close imo. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on February 28, 2024, 11:55:45 AM

Sweden cleared the final hurdle earlier this week with the vote in Hungary and will officially join NATO shortly.  Huge upgrade for the alliance.  As with Finland, there's not much love loss between Sweden and Russia.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 28, 2024, 12:16:33 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on February 28, 2024, 11:55:45 AM

Sweden cleared the final hurdle earlier this week with the vote in Hungary and will officially join NATO shortly.  Huge upgrade for the alliance.  As with Finland, there's not much love loss between Sweden and Russia.

yeah, not really. Just means US is on the hook financially for even more than they already contribute to NATO and are now responsible for the security of yet another Eurotrash freeloading country that brings nothing to the table. We don't need any military personnel or equipment from any of the pathetic militaries in Europe. We could beat the ever loving shit out of every other country in NATO in a war if all 28 or 29 of them or whatever the hell that number is now ganged up and tried to fight us. We'd smoke dat ass.

Like to see this countries defense resources focus on China and Mexican cartels if I'm being honest. China is the only real peer competitor in the world with the US. They want to supplant us as the worlds superpower- it's a stated goal of that regime- they aren't shy about it. And as far as the cartels go, the fentanyl crisis is real. I'm sure everyone here knows people who have died or addicted. I believe the opioid death toll is about 100k per year in the US now. Most of it from street opioids, most of which come from Mexico. Mexico is completely corrupt on levels that are astounding and that countries ineptitude is affecting our country and we share a large border with them. If they won't smash and destroy the cartels, US should go do it for them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on February 28, 2024, 12:27:33 PM

funniest stuff I've seen that trash bag dogshit show SNL put out in years....YEARS...99% it's cause they were probably written by Shane Gillis, a guy they hired for 5 minutes and then fired 5 years ago over jokes he made on a podcast....and who is now arguably the biggest stand up comic in the world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI3RhwSF8mo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFM9-Mq2Fuw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwgzcXnOHyI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YnonYf463s

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 28, 2024, 12:39:15 PM

Quote from: utee94 on February 27, 2024, 03:12:42 PM

Right.  So why are you getting all spun up about it?

You, more than any other poster I've encountered on any other message board I've ever frequented, going back to my BBS days in the 80s, seem to constantly be looking for something to be angry about. 

Approaching things like that would absolutely wear me out, but you have to do you, as they say.

At a point, I have to marvel at not only constantly finding things, but being white hot angry at them. It’s not just your everyday anger, but there’s usually some real rageful tone behind it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 28, 2024, 12:43:37 PM

I think Sweden will contribute more to NATO than their addition will somehow cost the US.  They have a competent military and largely make their own equipment, much of which is first rate, or close to it.  It's a good addition in my view.  The Baltics are pretty dicey because they are very small and very exposed.  Sweden is sizeable and not really exposed, and the can control the Baltic pretty effectively.

Sweden is not a place the Russians would attack first, or even second, if they were to attack.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 28, 2024, 12:44:41 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 27, 2024, 05:01:56 PM

I find it astounding that Apple is as much a "lifestyle brand" as it is an electronics company. People with iPhone/iPad/MacBook/Airpods think they're cooler than those "nerds" who buy Android / PC.

You know who is most proud to let everyone else know which electronics they buy? "Nerds".

I’m reminded of a coffee place in my hometown. As Starbucks was building its hegemony, people would proudly say they drank at the local chain instead of the corporate place.

At some point I learned Starbucks had bought the local chain. Later in life, I learned that purchase happened before I was born.

(I will say, I think there’s a sort of yin/yang there, as people who principally don’t buy apple will also let you know and let you know why. And alas the reason are often on the nerdy side. Anyway, I will say, Apple made enough of their products stupid-proof, and that turned out to be a good approach FWIW)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 28, 2024, 12:47:04 PM

I have a Dell desktop, and an iPad and iPhone.  My old iPad was about useless now, but my wife got a new one for Christmas.  Then she dropped it and the screen splintered a bit, she wanted a new one, and got one, and I got her old one.  She wants to have the screen replaced, but it's $200 or so, and it works just fine.  I mostly use it with Libby to read library books.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 28, 2024, 02:09:28 PM

Quote from: Gigem on February 28, 2024, 07:30:02 AM

The key thing that is missing is that while battery capacity has increased incrementally the price has dropped by a good amount every year. The last figure I saw a few years ago is that the price has dropped 10% every year since 2013.

Even if the capacity never goes up 10% with current technology, battery powered cars will get cheaper and cheaper until they are on par with ICE and then fall below it.

Past performance is not indicative of future results.

I would have to understand why pricing has been on that trend. I have some theories, but I'm not close enough to that market to know.

What I do know is this:

Prices can never, long term, decline faster than production costs. 

So pricing essentially will be based on the following, long term: cost of inputs + manufacturing/distribution costs + profit.

But there are other things which affect this. There's something known as Wright's Law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience_curve_effects) which basically states that as volumes increase, costs decrease. This is due to a lot of things, but battery production volumes have increased SIGNIFICANTLY over the last decade. Wright's law may suggest that operational efficiencies, supply chain efficiencies, fixed costs amortization across larger volumes, etc all improved to reach that 10% annual reduction. There could of course be reductions due to technology improvements allowing use of less costly anode metals or other aspects that brought it down as well. 

However I would argue that Wright's Law reaches a steady-state or point of diminishing returns once volumes reach certain points, because at some point you've teased out the operational efficiencies and it just comes down to cost of inputs. So at some point battery cost declines might slow if they were driven by things like Wright's Law more than they were driven by inherent improvements in battery chemistry (i.e. storage capacity gains). 

Which is a long way of saying that I'm not sure we can predict a solid 10% annual price decline for the next decade just because we saw it in the last decade. The market was going through a rapid volume increase and market maturation period, and eventually all of the low hanging fruit will already be picked. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 28, 2024, 02:24:26 PM

It's about damn time.

https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/mitch-mcconnell-to-step-down-as-senate-minority-leader-in-november-7e9ca478?st=zjr2smz0q8lnc79&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 28, 2024, 02:27:15 PM

I'm not a Mitch fan at all, but I tend to view them as 'all the same', whoever replaces him won't make much if any real difference.

McConnell to step down as Senate GOP leader | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4494536-mcconnell-to-step-down-as-senate-gop-leader/)

McConnell’s retirement from leadership sets the stage for an intense competition to replace him, with Thune, Cornyn and Senate Republican Conference Chair John Barrasso (Wyo.) expected to vie for the top job.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 28, 2024, 02:28:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 28, 2024, 02:24:30 PM

I'm trying pretty hard to stay in shape, or get back into shape, once you let yourself go and put on some years, it seems impossible without draconian measures.

I went over to the tennis practice court today and threw against the wall for half an hour, worked up quite a good sweat, and then ran a few sprints coming back.  Well, they are sprints for me anyway.  I'm thinking I should work my way back to running 5k three times a week, it's a slow 5k, but that's some energy.

I hit the gym on alternate days, nothing major, but some lighter weights going hither and yon, better than nothing.  And I type a lot.  I've about finished my next book.

Yes, it is hard. When I broke my leg, I couldn't do much of anything for a while. And then it became a pattern. I've taken action. I've lost 40 pounds since Labor Day and going for another 40. 80 pounds is a small person!


Diet (portion control), exercise, and just moving more. Visits to the chiropractor and massage. Start PT on Monday to regain strength in my left leg, which is half dead from an asshole neurosurgeon fuck up 11 years ago.

It's not easy. Not whatsoever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 28, 2024, 02:30:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 28, 2024, 02:27:15 PM

I'm not a Mitch fan at all, but I tend to view them as 'all the same', whoever replaces him won't make much if any real difference.

McConnell to step down as Senate GOP leader | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4494536-mcconnell-to-step-down-as-senate-gop-leader/)

McConnell’s retirement from leadership sets the stage for an intense competition to replace him, with Thune, Cornyn and Senate Republican Conference Chair John Barrasso (Wyo.) expected to vie for the top job.

Tim Scott would be my choice. Backups would be Marco Rubio or Ted Cruz.

Or Steve Garvey.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 28, 2024, 02:40:52 PM

I have little to no hope any change will make any real difference.  They changed the House Speaker a while back, same thing.

He might sounds a bit different, but he's still minority leader for now.  And even as majority leader...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 28, 2024, 03:08:21 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 28, 2024, 03:02:56 PM

Yeah, I've finally found something that I both like and that I'll actually do. And I don't want to end up like my parents. I want to still be capable and active in my future years.

I absolutely hate running. I don't do it.

So I do a core strength class every day (typically anywhere between 10 and 20 minutes), ride the Peloton bike 4-5x per week (ranging 30m to 120m, my average class is a little over 40 minutes), and try to do dumbbell strength classes 4+ times per week (either 20 or 30 minutes) per class.

I hate running too. Elliptical is good for my hips and gets the blood moving. We have a nice fitness center in our development. It's 800/year and classes are all free. I do the functional stretch classes now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 28, 2024, 03:24:38 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 28, 2024, 03:08:21 PM

I hate running too. Elliptical is good for my hips and gets the blood moving. We have a nice fitness center in our development. It's 800/year and classes are all free. I do the functional stretch classes now.

I've been slacking off on stretching. And that's not good. 

My accountability system basically consists of two pillars:

• I have to do something EVERY DAY. Even if it's just a stretch, or a core workout, or whatever. Peloton provides daily streak badges up to 60 days, so I will do something 60 days in a row, take one day off (today is actually my day), then start new 60 day streak the next day. 
• I have to hit a predetermined annual minute target. For 2023 it was 15K (and I made it). For 2024 I've only officially committed myself to 15K, but I'm pushing to try to get either the 18K or 20K badge. 

The first pillar is because I'm the type of person that if I say I'll work out 6 days a week, after a month it'll be 5 days, and another month 4, and then I'll be a lazy bum again. I can't do that. The second pillar is to not allow the first pillar to be slacking. 15K is just over 40 minutes a day. Every time I have a day that's just a 10 minute core or stretch, that means I have to work out more on other days to make up for it and keep my average above that 40ish per day. So while I have the grace to allow myself rest / active recovery days, I have a built-in target that doesn't let them be too plentiful. 

But I decided for 2024 to make core an every day thing. Which means that my "rest" days which were previously "just a stretch" are likely now "just a core". So I'm doing fewer stretches. And my body can feel the difference, so I need to improve the willpower to add more of those in. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 28, 2024, 03:45:46 PM

Stretching helps the hell out of me. And this "functional stretch" class is perfect, because it combines stretch and balance training in one 45 minute class. It's Tuesdays and Thursdays at 8:30AM. Very helpful - especially the balance part with my half-dead left leg.

When I broke it, I didn't really feel it. The next day I walked on it into the clinic. They gave me Tramadol. Didn't take much, even after the surgery a week later. That's how dead it is.

Balance is good for getting on and off boats.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 28, 2024, 04:08:53 PM

A lot of the time, I also hate running. 

But I just signed up for a half marathon. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 28, 2024, 04:11:00 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 28, 2024, 04:08:53 PM

A lot of the time, I also hate running.

But I just signed up for a half marathon.

I hope your knees/hips don't hurt you when you're 50.

Be careful my friend.

I have a buddy who did marathons. He's got two new knees and is doing the hips next. Might need ankle too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 28, 2024, 06:32:10 PM

Marathon runners are like the people who think Romeo & Juliet was a great love story.  

The alleged first person to run that distance with haste dropped dead.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on February 28, 2024, 06:46:19 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 28, 2024, 08:35:04 AM

Not only after 12 years, but the range will of course degrade over time, maybe 3-5% each year depending.  So your lofty 300 mile range turns into ~200 miles in ~7-8 years?


The deal breaker for me is the cost to charge away from home.

In 12 years the battery may cost half of what it does today. It costs 10% of what it did 12 years ago. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on February 28, 2024, 06:54:49 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on February 28, 2024, 02:09:28 PM

Past performance is not indicative of future results.

I would have to understand why pricing has been on that trend. I have some theories, but I'm not close enough to that market to know.

What I do know is this:

Prices can never, long term, decline faster than production costs.

So pricing essentially will be based on the following, long term: cost of inputs + manufacturing/distribution costs + profit.

But there are other things which affect this. There's something known as Wright's Law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience_curve_effects) which basically states that as volumes increase, costs decrease. This is due to a lot of things, but battery production volumes have increased SIGNIFICANTLY over the last decade. Wright's law may suggest that operational efficiencies, supply chain efficiencies, fixed costs amortization across larger volumes, etc all improved to reach that 10% annual reduction. There could of course be reductions due to technology improvements allowing use of less costly anode metals or other aspects that brought it down as well.

However I would argue that Wright's Law reaches a steady-state or point of diminishing returns once volumes reach certain points, because at some point you've teased out the operational efficiencies and it just comes down to cost of inputs. So at some point battery cost declines might slow if they were driven by things like Wright's Law more than they were driven by inherent improvements in battery chemistry (i.e. storage capacity gains).

Which is a long way of saying that I'm not sure we can predict a solid 10% annual price decline for the next decade just because we saw it in the last decade. The market was going through a rapid volume increase and market maturation period, and eventually all of the low hanging fruit will already be picked.

You’re right about the costs coming down much slower. But, even if they do continue to drop incrementally as I think they will we could still see significant cost decreases over the next decade. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on February 28, 2024, 07:01:58 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 28, 2024, 04:11:00 PM

I hope your knees/hips don't hurt you when you're 50.

Be careful my friend.

I have a buddy who did marathons. He's got two new knees and is doing the hips next. Might need ankle too.

The last time I entered a long race I had women pushing baby strollers passing me by

I was so slow the cops following the race made me get off the road

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 28, 2024, 07:12:09 PM

Quote from: Gigem on February 28, 2024, 06:54:49 PM

You’re right about the costs coming down much slower. But, even if they do continue to drop incrementally as I think they will we could still see significant cost decreases over the next decade.

I agree that we could see that. And I think it's a key enabler to the adoption rates of EVs that some people are predicting. I'm not knowledgeable enough on the battery industry to predict it either way myself.

I just wanted to throw out a contrary viewpoint as a discussion point. There are many economic and technology factors affecting the future cost/pricing of batteries. And the battery/BEV industry is in a MUCH different place than it was in 2014. 

I'm in an industry (data storage) that has seen a significant technology upheaval over the past decade (growth of SSDs vs HDDs). And I see a LOT of people making very poor predictions about the future of this industry because they don't understand the fundamental economics and are mistakenly extrapolating trends in one area thinking it will hold in others. 

I see a lot of parallels to the BEV/ICEV industry changes. Based on how many other people I've seen go astray in the area of my own expertise, I am reticent to put a stake in the ground for my own beliefs and throw out these sorts of things to challenge others to think more deeply about their own...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on February 28, 2024, 07:37:45 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 28, 2024, 04:11:00 PM

I hope your knees/hips don't hurt you when you're 50.

Be careful my friend.

I have a buddy who did marathons. He's got two new knees and is doing the hips next. Might need ankle too.

They sometimes hurt now! 

I’ve laid off a lot of running after some injuries, and likely will cut back some post-half. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 28, 2024, 08:35:13 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 28, 2024, 07:01:58 PM

The last time I entered a long race I had women pushing baby strollers passing me by

I was so slow the cops following the race made me get off the road

I was on a pub crawl and think I passed you 🥂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 29, 2024, 07:42:03 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/FXtkNol.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 29, 2024, 07:45:52 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/iHcQoTZ.png)

The Biden administration has never published that chart. The president isn’t bragging about record oil and gas production.
His reluctance highlights a political problem for him and other Democrats. Biden wants to phase out oil and gas eventually to fight global warming. But domestic oil and gas production is expanding on his watch. That brings political benefits: It helps reduce energy costs, and polls show Americans largely support it. But more drilling also means more pollution — and more fury from young progressive voters.
“It is a tough balancing act,” said Ryan Cummings, the economist who created the energy chart. “You want to reduce emissions, but you need a bridge to get there.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on February 29, 2024, 08:14:25 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/9re46PV.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on February 29, 2024, 08:39:53 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 28, 2024, 04:08:53 PM

A lot of the time, I also hate running.

But I just signed up for a half marathon.

I don't much care for running, yet I (along with the Mrs.) will be running the Detroit International Half Marathon in October. Not because I love running (I much prefer biking and swimming), but because of the setting. Run over the Ambassador Bridge to Windsor, then along the Windsor waterfront to the tunnel, then through the tunnel back to Detroit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 29, 2024, 08:54:32 AM

Jogging gives me the runs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on February 29, 2024, 09:24:04 AM

Ya I wouldn't put up with that crap

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2024, 12:49:44 PM

The U.S. national debt is rising by $1 trillion about every 100 days (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/01/the-us-national-debt-is-rising-by-1-trillion-about-every-100-days.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2024, 03:46:07 PM

It's a pretty small percentage of overall revenue generated by Federal taxes.

(https://i.imgur.com/TB7ScUM.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2024, 01:48:13 PM

I finally got my next book out in paperback.  That is getting to be a slog, though at times I feel like writing, and others ...  and I never feel like proofing.

I need to go back and fix my earlier books.

Well, it's not as if they are best sellers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 07:01:10 AM

Rent prices impacted by 'apartment-building boom,' Redfin chief economist says | Fox Business (https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/rent-prices-impacted-apartment-building-boom-redfin-chief-economist-says)

I sold my house in 2010, which wasn't the ideal time of course, but I figured I got out about what I put in to it in terms of improvements etc.  I'm not counting going costs, taxes etc.  Overall, it wasn't too different from renting a similar place, I think.

It had been the "American dream" to own, but I see that changing, perhaps longer term, with some consequences down the road.  One issue today is most of us can't deduct mortgage interest from our taxes (for now).  A lot of home owners now have ultra low interest loans they don't want to give up, so they are "stuck" in their current house, so to speak, which is probably good for Home Depot.

Nearly everything being built around us is apartments, high rise glass towers.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Entropy on March 04, 2024, 08:11:21 AM

We still have housing developments going up but everything is labeled 500k+ which actually means 700k+.    We also have a lot of apartments going up and people say there are wait lists in good neighborhoods.    

We did have a developer who put in apartments and then smaller 350K-400K homes.   They were basically sold before built.   A lot of retirees wanted them to downsize yet still have a new home.  I know the money is better with the larger homes, but you'd think someone would realize the untapped market for smaller, affordable homes for retirees or even better, DINK's.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 08:27:03 AM

Port St Lucie Florida Homes for Sale | PGA Village Verano | Kolter Homes PSL (https://www.kolterhomes.com/new-homes/port-saint-lucie-florida-active-adult-pga-village-verano/homes/?msclkid=da119c334afb11864f81f9d683474459&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PGA Village Verano - Search - US-Targeted (Best)

These are pretty common in Florida. $320 K and up.  A lot of up.  We looked at some back in 2010 that were $220K ish.  My wife thought they were too small and the lots were tiny and you were on top of your neighbors.  Heh, now our neighbors are even closer.

Around us, a decent two bedroom apartment is going to push $3 K.  They come with nice amenities.  A two bedroom condo in our building is $400 and up for 1,100 sf if you can find one.  They seem to get sold quickly.  And  there is a steep premium for higher floors with views even though your pricey view could end up being another building in  few years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 08:47:13 AM

Majorities in new poll doubt Biden, Trump mental capabilities | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4506130-majorities-doubt-biden-trump-mental-capabilities/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2024, 09:08:16 AM

neither of them should be on the ballot IMO

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 04, 2024, 09:23:07 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on February 28, 2024, 07:01:58 PM

The last time I entered a long race I had women pushing baby strollers passing me by

I was so slow the cops following the race made me get off the road

I tell people that if they see me running, please kill whatever it is that is chasing me. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 04, 2024, 10:50:15 AM

https://youtu.be/25PIgsJTYMM

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 04, 2024, 10:54:09 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 08:47:13 AM

Majorities in new poll doubt Biden, Trump mental capabilities | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4506130-majorities-doubt-biden-trump-mental-capabilities/)

Uncle Jed and Jethro are somehwere going WTF 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 11:07:17 AM

Supreme Court hands Trump victory in Colorado 14th Amendment ballot challenge | The Hill (https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4506318-supreme-court-trump-colorado-14th-amendment-ballot-challenge/)

9-0.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 11:21:35 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/ScrQDgi.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2024, 11:28:32 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 11:07:17 AM

Supreme Court hands Trump victory in Colorado 14th Amendment ballot challenge | The Hill (https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4506318-supreme-court-trump-colorado-14th-amendment-ballot-challenge/)

9-0.

damn it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2024, 11:32:07 AM

Update on the exploding house in my neighborhood... I was walking the dog and got into a chat with the elderly next-door neighbor of that house... Note that all of the below should be considered "allegedly" because it's the PoV of a really old dude who may not have the entire picture. 

Apparently, it's a goddamn mess. Guy and his wife were separated. Neighbor had heard the two of them having all sorts of rows before the separation. She was scared of him, and apparently parked several houses down to walk up to their house to ask questions about him (before the fire). He apparently didn't want to leave the house, but probably didn't want to sell and let her have half the equity, and stopped paying the mortgage. So the house was under a notice of foreclosure and apparently the bank was selling, not him / his wife. The fire happened two days after the house went pending sale. Hmm... Suspicious?

Guy had two vehicles, one of which was a pristine Corvette. The vehicles were always garaged. The night of the fire, the Corvette was parked several houses away. The fire started around 4 AM. The guy said the house across the street (the one selling right now for $1.65M) had a Ring doorbell and the video caught the guy leaving/walking away down the street shortly before the fire started. Hmm... Suspicious? 

Neighbor said that after the fire, it was still under investigation for arson. They thought the guy was going to try to leave and go to Michigan where he had family (and potentially try to get into Canada), but apparently sometime between then and now he went and offed himself. 

So... Yeah... As I said... A mess. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 11:34:01 AM

A definite mess.  It's not that easy to mask arson.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 04, 2024, 11:41:42 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2024, 11:32:07 AM

Update on the exploding house in my neighborhood... I was walking the dog and got into a chat with the elderly next-door neighbor of that house... Note that all of the below should be considered "allegedly" because it's the PoV of a really old dude who may not have the entire picture.

Apparently, it's a goddamn mess. Guy and his wife were separated. Neighbor had heard the two of them having all sorts of rows before the separation. She was scared of him, and apparently parked several houses down to walk up to their house to ask questions about him (before the fire). He apparently didn't want to leave the house, but probably didn't want to sell and let her have half the equity, and stopped paying the mortgage. So the house was under a notice of foreclosure and apparently the bank was selling, not him / his wife. The fire happened two days after the house went pending sale. Hmm... Suspicious?

Guy had two vehicles, one of which was a pristine Corvette. The vehicles were always garaged. The night of the fire, the Corvette was parked several houses away. The fire started around 4 AM. The guy said the house across the street (the one selling right now for $1.65M) had a Ring doorbell and the video caught the guy leaving/walking away down the street shortly before the fire started. Hmm... Suspicious?

Neighbor said that after the fire, it was still under investigation for arson. They thought the guy was going to try to leave and go to Michigan where he had family (and potentially try to get into Canada), but apparently sometime between then and now he went and offed himself.

So... Yeah... As I said... A mess.

Sounds like the wife just inherited a nice car

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 04, 2024, 11:46:25 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 04, 2024, 11:28:32 AM

damn it

what did you expect

Colorado has no constitutional basis for its actions

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2024, 01:10:48 PM

yup, I understand the issue

I just wish there was a way to keep both of them off the ballot

obviously the parties they represent aren't willing to do it for the sake of the country or their own party

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 02:49:28 PM

A thing about allowing a state to remove someone from a ballot without some kind of "due process" would worry me.  It was too subjective for my tastes, and I could see states removing a candidate basically because they didn't like him/her without any conviction or finding or legislative action.

I can see it if a person was convicted of a felony or impeached and found guilty.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2024, 03:17:13 PM

Gold rises above $2,100 to highest level ever as traders bet on interest rate cuts

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 03:24:53 PM

It's the highest numerically but not adjusted for inflation of course.

Atlanta BeltLine Design and Construction Updates: February 2024 // Atlanta Beltline (https://beltline.org/2024/03/01/atlanta-beltline-design-and-construction-updates-february-2024/)

I'm reading a book about the history of this project, including some stuff about the history of the city of which I was unaware.  It's a sign of what can get done, I think, starting with a handful of folks.  I'll be interested in how this all plays out longer term.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2024, 03:59:00 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 02:49:28 PM

A thing about allowing a state to remove someone from a ballot without some kind of "due process" would worry me.  It was too subjective for my tastes, and I could see states removing a candidate basically because they didn't like him/her without any conviction or finding or legislative action.

I can see it if a person was convicted of a felony or impeached and found guilty.

It's an interesting legal question. The counterargument would be that the states are not barring anyone from Federal office--they're barring them from the ballot in their own. States are allowed to conduct their own elections, and make their own qualification criteria for putting someone on a ballot. You see this all the time with third party Presidential candidates--most don't make it onto all 50 state ballots (https://reason.com/2024/02/02/presidential-ballot-will-be-crowded-with-third-party-candidates/), with perhaps the Libertarian and Green parties, regularly or coming closest.  

So you could make an argument that the states themselves should be the one who determine whether someone participated in an insurrection. They can't bar someone from Federal office (that would violate the supremacy clause as I believe SCOTUS alleged), but MAYBE could be enough to allow them to bar someone from the ballot in their own state. 

To me it was all a bit of a mess, because any state that would have the balls to remove that particular candidate from the ballot was a state that he had no chance to win, so it wouldn't meaningfully affect the outcome of anything except the popular vote. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2024, 04:01:04 PM

well, if felons couldn't hold public office we wouldn't have many folks in office

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 04, 2024, 04:09:39 PM

the 7 to 0 vote from SCOTUS speaks volumes IMHO

wonder why the other 2 justices didnt vote

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2024, 04:11:31 PM

they are afraid of Hillary?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2024, 04:30:01 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 04, 2024, 04:09:39 PM

the 7 to 0 vote from SCOTUS speaks volumes IMHO

wonder why the other 2 justices didnt vote

It was 9-0. 

BTW you can read the court opinion, Barrett's concurrence, and Sotomayor/Kagan/Jackson's concurrence here: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-719_19m2.pdf

It's 20 pages in total, so nothing too crazy. I'm going to get to it a little later today (or tomorrow AM if I can't today)...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 04, 2024, 04:56:56 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2024, 04:30:01 PM

It was 9-0.

BTW you can read the court opinion, Barrett's concurrence, and Sotomayor/Kagan/Jackson's concurrence here: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-719_19m2.pdf

It's 20 pages in total, so nothing too crazy. I'm going to get to it a little later today (or tomorrow AM if I can't today)...

Ill pass but thanks just the same

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 04, 2024, 06:13:07 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2024, 03:59:00 PM

It's an interesting legal question. The counterargument would be that the states are not barring anyone from Federal office--they're barring them from the ballot in their own. States are allowed to conduct their own elections, and make their own qualification criteria for putting someone on a ballot. You see this all the time with third party Presidential candidates--most don't make it onto all 50 state ballots (https://reason.com/2024/02/02/presidential-ballot-will-be-crowded-with-third-party-candidates/), with perhaps the Libertarian and Green parties, regularly or coming closest. 

So you could make an argument that the states themselves should be the one who determine whether someone participated in an insurrection. They can't bar someone from Federal office (that would violate the supremacy clause as I believe SCOTUS alleged), but MAYBE could be enough to allow them to bar someone from the ballot in their own state.

To me it was all a bit of a mess, because any state that would have the balls to remove that particular candidate from the ballot was a state that he had no chance to win, so it wouldn't meaningfully affect the outcome of anything except the popular vote.

Yeah I don't really have a problem with a state deciding who can and can not be on its ballot.  

In this case, as you point out, it makes no difference, because we all know how the state in question is going to vote anyway.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 06:16:33 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/AS1L96S.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 06:20:37 PM

I think there should be some level of due process for removing a candidate, not just a decision by a single person, or small group, but due process.  If a person is convicted of a felony, fine with me.  If they just said mean things, well, no.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 06:37:45 PM

=AZWBoJ84VqMp-SIr9l0N6YUixqVieqiBuOrmUu6LZolgBoMobrBsf8gcIop5LgHrMHoAoUgUHqwlX3dtel461k8gVCUwI7gtE3DDIWv3i3E3-DUzdgJk8JS2cy7otmDvx_FE3NeJn2c5S-u8nc5JFdan3uiomvBvSPGPlAIvhKXg70c8ui5XRQGs1XB2y0-XUvk&__tn__=-UC%2CP-R"][color=var(--primary-text)]Wall Street Journal Opinion (http://"https://www.facebook.com/WSJOpinion?__cft__[0)[/iurl] [/color][/size][/color]

[color=var(--secondary-text)]=AZWBoJ84VqMp-SIr9l0N6YUixqVieqiBuOrmUu6LZolgBoMobrBsf8gcIop5LgHrMHoAoUgUHqwlX3dtel461k8gVCUwI7gtE3DDIWv3i3E3-DUzdgJk8JS2cy7otmDvx_FE3NeJn2c5S-u8nc5JFdan3uiomvBvSPGPlAIvhKXg70c8ui5XRQGs1XB2y0-XUvk&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R"] (http://"https://www.facebook.com/WSJOpinion/posts/pfbid0S584JFPoptr7wVnHsQMqegbhT3hfybJfod7eHjpWS3CdiVhU6kHNJEYm5Wjz4fsnl?__cft__[0)  · [/font][/font][/size][/color]

 (https://www.facebook.com/#)

 (https://www.facebook.com/#)

[color=var(--primary-text)]If supporting Ukraine is expensive, the cost of failing to do so will be much higher, writes Maia Sandu[/font][/font][/size][/color]

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2024, 07:04:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 06:20:37 PM

I think there should be some level of due process for removing a candidate, not just a decision by a single person, or small group, but due process.  If a person is convicted of a felony, fine with me.  If they just said mean things, well, no.

Colorado voters (interestingly, brought by four Republican voters and two unaffiliated) filed a petition, effectively suing, the Colorado State government and naming the Colorado Secretary of State in the proceedings. The matter was heard by a District Court who, after 5 days of trial, said that Trump engaged in an insurrection but that he was not named as an "officer" under the United States because the office of the Presidency was not named in the 14th Amendment. The matter was appealed (I think, I'm not sure exactly how it ended up in front of the Colorado Supreme Court), and Colorado SC reversed the decision and ordered him removed from the ballot (with the order stayed pending SCOTUS review). 

So, two questions...

• The matter was brought in a legal fashion, went through a Colorado District Court, found a decision after a 5-day trial, was appealed or somehow came before the Colorado Supreme Court, and was reversed upon decision of a more powerful court. Is this not due process? This wasn't a decision made by one person on a whim. It was a legal suit, learned judges made a decision based on their understanding of the facts and the law, and rendered an order enforcing their decision.
• Had SCOTUS affirmed, rather than overruled, the Colorado Supreme Court, would that in any way have changed your opinion that the actions of the Colorado District Court and Colorado Supreme Court were sufficient to be "due process"?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2024, 07:37:41 PM

Okay... So I've read the opinion and the concurring opinions... Allow me to summarize:

• The five conservatives (minus Barrett): We need an opinion that keeps Trump on ballots. We're going to create one. And then we're going to go one step farther and say that only Congress can stop Trump from holding office, because there's a chance he'll be convicted in Federal court for being an insurrectionist. If he is, then we can rely on a Congressional requirement for enforcing the 14th Amendment Section 3 to forestall any reason to get rid of Trump if he's convicted.
• The three liberals: We have to support federal power supremacy over the states, because the entire idea of "states' rights" is anathema to us. So we have to say a State can't remove a Federal candidate from a ballot. But the majority goes too far because they're clearly doing whatever they can to prop up their future decisions keeping Trump in power even if he's freakin' convicted of being an insurrectionist.
• Amy Coney Barrett: Hey, did y'all know I'm a Supreme Court Justice? I wrote a two paragraph concurrence to remind y'all. It was kinda all about how we as a Court agreed on some stuff but disagreed on others, but we're all a big happy family, y'all!

So that's my take in short.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 08:07:14 PM

I think of due process as including both sides, maybe they did.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 04, 2024, 08:41:12 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 04, 2024, 11:28:32 AM

damn it

you should be happy this happened and not saying damn it, as some small measure of fairness/justice/whatever you want to call it was served and order restored in these times of utter insanity

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 04, 2024, 08:42:14 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 04, 2024, 01:10:48 PM

yup, I understand the issue

I just wish there was a way to keep both of them off the ballot

obviously the parties they represent aren't willing to do it for the sake of the country or their own party

there is a way to keep both of them off....which is why we have these things called primaries....someone in their respective parties has to beat them at the ballot box. 

unfortunately the democratic party is nothing but a sewer of filth and wouldn't allow for even a split second a challenger to President Shits-his-Diapers and the major donors and establishment wing of the republican party have tried everything in their power to get anyone else but Trump and all they could muster was someone as daft and unimpressive as Nikki fcking Haley....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 04, 2024, 08:43:15 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 02:49:28 PM

A thing about allowing a state to remove someone from a ballot without some kind of "due process" would worry me.  It was too subjective for my tastes, and I could see states removing a candidate basically because they didn't like him/her without any conviction or finding or legislative action.

I can see it if a person was convicted of a felony or impeached and found guilty.

+1. exactly this. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 04, 2024, 08:43:55 PM

My understanding is that SCOTUS ruled as it did because a state has no authority under the amendment they based their opinion on to affect a federal election but only state elections due process or no due process

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2024, 08:45:59 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 04, 2024, 08:42:14 PM

establishment wing of the republican party have tried everything in their power to get anyone else but Trump and all they could muster was someone as daft and unimpressive as Nikki fcking Haley....

gotta be smarter than that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 04, 2024, 08:46:24 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 04, 2024, 08:43:55 PM

My understanding is that SCOTUS ruled as it did because a state has no authority under the amendment they based their opinion on to affect a federal election but only state elections due process or no due process

SCOTUS ruled as it did because a state was interferring in a FEDERAL election via a completely novel and radical interpretation of section 3 of the 14th amendment.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 04, 2024, 08:49:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 06:16:33 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/AS1L96S.png)

It really is the end of an era. CNN created 24/7 tv news and had resources and a network of reporters all over the globe that was the envy of every news organization. CNN is on life support now and has been for years, they are not quite dead but nearly there. CNN is a laughing stock these days. CNN+ streaming service was a major disaster, their tv ratings are in the toilet, and their "reporting" is about as credible as The National Enquirer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 04, 2024, 08:54:16 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 07:01:10 AM

Rent prices impacted by 'apartment-building boom,' Redfin chief economist says | Fox Business (https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/rent-prices-impacted-apartment-building-boom-redfin-chief-economist-says)

I sold my house in 2010, which wasn't the ideal time of course, but I figured I got out about what I put in to it in terms of improvements etc.  I'm not counting going costs, taxes etc.  Overall, it wasn't too different from renting a similar place, I think.

It had been the "American dream" to own, but I see that changing, perhaps longer term, with some consequences down the road.  One issue today is most of us can't deduct mortgage interest from our taxes (for now).  A lot of home owners now have ultra low interest loans they don't want to give up, so they are "stuck" in their current house, so to speak, which is probably good for Home Depot.

Nearly everything being built around us is apartments, high rise glass towers.

lot of reasons why the apartment building boom is happening. 

you will own nothing and be happy. 

the "American dream" heh...

(https://preview.redd.it/2j1gcwfexfg01.jpg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=d0b45168bcbbd6c7439fc13ccde2adb93fb4b695)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 04, 2024, 08:56:06 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 01, 2024, 12:49:44 PM

The U.S. national debt is rising by $1 trillion about every 100 days (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/01/the-us-national-debt-is-rising-by-1-trillion-about-every-100-days.html)

MUST...GIVE....THE UKRAINE.....MOAAAAR MONEEEEEY!!!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 04, 2024, 08:59:38 PM

Quote from: Entropy on March 04, 2024, 08:11:21 AM

We still have housing developments going up but everything is labeled 500k+ which actually means 700k+.    We also have a lot of apartments going up and people say there are wait lists in good neighborhoods.   

We did have a developer who put in apartments and then smaller 350K-400K homes.  They were basically sold before built.  A lot of retirees wanted them to downsize yet still have a new home.  I know the money is better with the larger homes, but you'd think someone would realize the untapped market for smaller, affordable homes for retirees or even better, DINK's.

new single family homes around these parts say starting at $900k....which means....over $1 million. And that's for like 2,300 sq ft production garbage house. there just isn't any land anywhere, and the little bit that's left....very expensive and very much a pain in the ass to deal with the county or city to get it rezoned or get the densities.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 04, 2024, 09:04:00 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 08:47:13 AM

Majorities in new poll doubt Biden, Trump mental capabilities | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4506130-majorities-doubt-biden-trump-mental-capabilities/)

very odd. seems like a bunch of bullsh*t to me. have yet to meet anyone in real life that doubts Trump's mental capabilities. maybe his character, attention span, personality, or his temperament, sure.

If only 6 out of 10 people question or doubt Biden's mental capabilities this country is surely fcked. That number needs to be at least 9 out of 10. Biden is so obviously visibly senile and decrepit. No lights on upstairs there. Poor bastard can't even stand up without falling over on a stage or walk up a flight of stairs. Or complete coherent sentences.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 04, 2024, 09:11:08 PM

I think more then 6 out of 10 votes know Brandon has dementia but they hate Trump so much they dont care.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 04, 2024, 09:14:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 08:27:03 AM

Port St Lucie Florida Homes for Sale | PGA Village Verano | Kolter Homes PSL (https://www.kolterhomes.com/new-homes/port-saint-lucie-florida-active-adult-pga-village-verano/homes/?msclkid=da119c334afb11864f81f9d683474459&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PGA Village Verano - Search - US-Targeted (Best)

These are pretty common in Florida. $320 K and up.  A lot of up.  We looked at some back in 2010 that were $220K ish.  My wife thought they were too small and the lots were tiny and you were on top of your neighbors.  Heh, now our neighbors are even closer.

Around us, a decent two bedroom apartment is going to push $3 K.  They come with nice amenities.  A two bedroom condo in our building is $400 and up for 1,100 sf if you can find one.  They seem to get sold quickly.  And  there is a steep premium for higher floors with views even though your pricey view could end up being another building in  few years.

Yeah those look like zero lot lines and those houses are like 1,250 sq ft under A/C....starting at $321k....which means....the nice pics they show on the website from the model probably more like $450-500k with all the options. St Lucie is not too bad, it's getting packed though and it's growing like a weed and the traffic is nuts. Pretty good location, not that far from West Palm Beach. Crazy though...best part of St Lucie might be Tradition and you could've got fully developed 1/3rd acre lots in there back in like 2009-11ish for like $10k. 

Kolter is a pretty big regional production builder from south florida. they build a better house than the huge publicly traded national builders like DR Horton, Pulte, or Lennar....which are all pretty much build straight up garbage for the most part.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2024, 10:57:54 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 04, 2024, 08:43:55 PM

My understanding is that SCOTUS ruled as it did because a state has no authority under the amendment they based their opinion on to affect a federal election but only state elections due process or no due process

Your understanding is based on not reading the SCOTUS decision. So it's hearsay at best.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 04, 2024, 11:12:52 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2024, 10:57:54 PM

Your understanding is based on not reading the SCOTUS decision. So it's hearsay at best.

have you read it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 04, 2024, 11:48:15 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2024, 10:57:54 PM

Your understanding is based on not reading the SCOTUS decision. So it's hearsay at best.

that's actually exactly what the SCOTUS says in regards to the Colorado courts novel and radical interpretation of section 3 of the 14th amendment of the constitution (an amendment by the way which was designed to keep high ranking Confederate politicians out of the US government after reconstruction post the fcking CIVIL WAR- not to keep the leading opposition candidate off ballots in 2024) on page 1 of their 20 page opinion....

Because the Constitution makes Congress, rather than the States, responsible for enforcing Section 3 against federal officeholders and candidates, we reverse.

Colorado way over stepped their bounds on something that is not within their authority nor jurisdiction to do so. No need to read a single thing after that sentence. What Colorado did was wholly unconstitutional, radical, extreme, and reckless- which is why they got their clocks cleaned in the Supreme Court of the United States of America 9-0.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 04, 2024, 11:51:47 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 04, 2024, 11:12:52 PM

have you read it

Another's actions have nothing to do with yours.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 04, 2024, 11:52:39 PM

if anyone wants to read it...

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-719_19m2.pdf

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 04, 2024, 11:58:25 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 04, 2024, 11:51:47 PM

Another's actions have nothing to do with yours. 

o thank you wise one

now fk off

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2024, 12:11:25 AM

Both candidates are shitty.  If you can't admit that, then you're a shill for one party (side of the same coin) over the other.

Both parties are radical bastardizations of themselves.

And CNN showed there wasn't 24 hours of news to perpetually cover.  Its anchor program was a talk show.  It was bailed out by the first Gulf War.  We'd all be better off and less polarized if it (and those that followed) never existed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2024, 12:11:59 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 04, 2024, 11:58:25 PM

o thank you wise one

now fk off

Not a fan of mirrors?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2024, 12:43:06 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 04, 2024, 11:12:52 PM

have you read it

Yes. My summary above was a very concise overview of my thoughts, but yes I read it. It's 20 pages. It's not War and Peace (which I've also read.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 05, 2024, 01:04:14 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2024, 12:43:06 AM

Yes. My summary above was a very concise overview of my thoughts, but yes I read it. It's 20 pages. It's not War and Peace (which I've also read.

youve got too much time on your hands

No I have not read it but I listened to several others that have and as can be seen from my prior post have a pretty good understanding what the meat of it is

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2024, 03:42:33 AM

How lazy can a person be?!?

He took the time to read the thing and you criticize THAT??  
Jesus Christ.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 05, 2024, 06:58:57 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2024, 12:11:25 AM

Both candidates are shitty.  If you can't admit that, then you're a shill for one party (side of the same coin) over the other.

I think anyone will admit that - if they are truly being honest.

Everyone cares about inflation so it's not worth mention.

My vote will be based on policies - mainly two. 

1. Border security.
2. No endless, pointless or proxy wars (i.e. NO WARS).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 07:33:22 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/aXN0shs.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2024, 07:38:04 AM

seems like somewhere in the middle would be preferred for most

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 05, 2024, 07:42:31 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 07:33:22 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/aXN0shs.png)

Is this to stay under the 80% threshold (no PMI)?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 07:44:05 AM

Folks often live where the job is, or where they are from.  I imagine many folks who grew up n Des Moine stay there unless they get a nice job offer somewhere else.

I recall fairly often in Cincy being asked which high school I attended, it was a mark of locals, you were east side or west side or Catholic.  Around here of course not many are "from here".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 08:58:20 AM

Biden to launch joint FTC-DOJ task force to crack down on 'unfair and illegal pricing' (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/05/biden-to-launch-joint-ftc-doj-task-force-to-crack-down-on-unfair-and-illegal-pricing-.html)

What law is on the books regarding "illegal pricing"?  Who determines what is or is not legal?

Is this just another gimmick?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 05, 2024, 09:01:45 AM

Gimmick.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 09:09:35 AM

The New York Times is facing backlash over its coverage of Donald Trump and the 2024 election | CNN Business (https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/05/media/new-york-times-trump-coverage-backlash/index.html)

Apparently, its readers think it has not focused negatively on Trump enough.  A good question is whether it would make any difference as I'd guess nearly all NYT readers won't vote for DJT.  But, they can be more negative to appease their readers of course, which is how news organizations operate (usually).

Life is all irony and I'm against all over generalizations.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2024, 09:27:22 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 08:58:20 AM

Biden to launch joint FTC-DOJ task force to crack down on 'unfair and illegal pricing' (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/05/biden-to-launch-joint-ftc-doj-task-force-to-crack-down-on-unfair-and-illegal-pricing-.html)

What law is on the books regarding "illegal pricing"?  Who determines what is or is not legal?

Is this just another gimmick?

well price fixing is illegal in terms of federal law. monopolies are suppose to be. those certainly affect prices consumers pay. 

but as far as “illegal pricing” or price gouging is what I’m assuming this bs gimmick useless taskforce is going to address- don’t believe there is a US law on the books about price gouging. some states might have laws- but that would be out of the jurisdiction of the doj-ftc. 

The disastrous policies of the Biden admin is affecting what people pay for the sh*t they have to buy to live than any “illegal pricing” cockamamie this idiot is spouting off about and creating useless tasks forces over.

Hey who knew that printing money like it’s going out of style, draconian sanctions on Russia backfiring on us, and alienating the Saudis to the point where they continually tell him to completely and utterly fk right off at every turn- all while smack dab coming off a pandemic which completely disrupted world supply chains- poured gasoline on the fire of inflation causing people to have to pay more and more for goods and services they need to live. 

Nothing but PR gimmick to shift blame away from himself.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 05, 2024, 09:32:52 AM

Yes many states and/or municipalities have laws on the books against price gouging in times of emergency.  For example, we know a hurricane is coming to Florida and the local Home Depot starts selling plywood at triple the price.  That would be a pretty clear case of breaking those types of laws.

I don't know of any Federal equivalent but that doesn't mean there isn't one.  Still, if there were one, I'd expect it to be cited in the announcement of such a task force.

Collusion is illegal yet it happens all the time.  Tacit collusion is the most common form.

But I don't see much evidence of that happening right now. I see many companies in high tech currently cutting prices to acquire market share from their competitors, which is pretty much the opposite of collusion.  I don't follow consumer package goods all that closely but collusion isn't part of their usual bag of tricks, either.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 09:32:58 AM

Oddly enough, a granted US patent confers a monopoly to the holder, legally.  

My guess is this "task force" meets a few times and perhaps tries to jaw bone a few companies about something, but they won't be able to act in any forceful fashion.  It might make some news.  Maybe they could try and go after Target.

Target (TGT) earnings Q4 2023 (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/05/target-tgt-earnings-q4-2023.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2024, 09:35:40 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 09:09:35 AM

The New York Times is facing backlash over its coverage of Donald Trump and the 2024 election | CNN Business (https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/05/media/new-york-times-trump-coverage-backlash/index.html)

Apparently, its readers think it has not focused negatively on Trump enough.  A good question is whether it would make any difference as I'd guess nearly all NYT readers won't vote for DJT.  But, they can be more negative to appease their readers of course, which is how news organizations operate (usually).

Life is all irony and I'm against all over generalizations.

NYT is a joke, it’s complete propaganda, fake news if you will, a tool of the establishment of the Democratic Party, and the people who actually read it and believe it are legit retarded.

Their entire Gaza reporting is falling apart at the seams and blowing up in their face. Just like all their fake news stories about Russiagate. Or the Iraq War and WMDs. Or that Hunter Biden’s laptop was Russian propaganda. Or it’s many outright lies about COVID.

Nothing to see there, retards gonna retard.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2024, 09:40:22 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 09:32:58 AM

Oddly enough, a granted US patent confers a monopoly to the holder, legally. 

My guess is this "task force" meets a few times and perhaps tries to jaw bone a few companies about something, but they won't be able to act in any forceful fashion.  It might make some news.  Maybe they could try and go after Target.

Target (TGT) earnings Q4 2023 (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/05/target-tgt-earnings-q4-2023.html)

Biden’s big thing he’s going on about is “shrinkflation” - consumers paying the same price for a bag of Doritos, Oreos, or box of cereal that is 15-20% smaller.

They are giving you less of poisonous highly processed garbage food for the same price! Even though that might help improve your health! THOSE BASTERDS. 

As if that is a bad thing in the fattest, unhealthiest country on planet fcking earth. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 09:42:36 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 05, 2024, 09:35:40 AM

NYT is a joke, it’s complete propaganda, fake news if you will, a tool of the establishment of the Democratic Party, and the people who actually read it and believe it are legit retarded.

Do you often read the NYT? 

Most of it, in my view, is apolitical, and well written, and can be interesting (or not).  I read it rarely myself, usually when it's free from a hotel or something.  I do get a daily email from one of their writers that can be pretty good.

I guess I'm retarded.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2024, 10:42:51 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 04, 2024, 11:48:15 PM

that's actually exactly what the SCOTUS says in regards to the Colorado courts novel and radical interpretation of section 3 of the 14th amendment of the constitution (an amendment by the way which was designed to keep high ranking Confederate politicians out of the US government after reconstruction post the fcking CIVIL WAR- not to keep the leading opposition candidate off ballots in 2024) on page 1 of their 20 page opinion....

Because the Constitution makes Congress, rather than the States, responsible for enforcing Section 3 against federal officeholders and candidates, we reverse.

Colorado way over stepped their bounds on something that is not within their authority nor jurisdiction to do so. No need to read a single thing after that sentence. What Colorado did was wholly unconstitutional, radical, extreme, and reckless- which is why they got their clocks cleaned in the Supreme Court of the United States of America 9-0.

I'm aware of what SCOTUS said. I'm also aware that SCOTUS, being quite learned and persuasive, can often reason backwards from a conclusion to find the justification that they want. Try reading an opinion sometime... Often you read the majority opinion and it seems absolutely simple and forthright why the Court decided the case. Then read the dissenting opinion, and you might suddenly find yourself starting to believe that the majority decided the case by cherry-picking and misapplying legal precedents from other cases and in fact the case should have gone the other way. 

They relied heavily on the Enforcement Act of 1870 as their reasoning for why this must be Congress' job. But if you read the history around the Enforcement Acts, they were only passed because it was [very rationally] believed that the Southern states would abrogate their duty to enforce the 14th and 15th Amendments and so they must be enforced upon them. But now it is used to say that the states cannot enforce them, and further that NOBODY but Congress CAN enforce the Amendments. That is the area where it is quite possible that they went WAY too far--as evidenced by the concurring opinions of Sotomayor/Kagan/Jackson, and even the milquetoast two-paragraph concurrence from Barrett. 

I also think there's an inherent contradiction. 14AS3 gives Congress the power, upon two-thirds vote, to reinstate someone who is removed from office under the insurrection clause. Why would it require a two-thirds majority to reinstate someone, when Congress is the ONLY body with the power to enforce the order and remove someone, which they could do by simple majority? 

I understand the main finding. I think it does create a patchwork of inconsistent and potentially contradictory sets of election conditions for what is a national election. I'm not sure I'm entirely swayed by it--we've always had inconsistent and potentially contradictory rules regarding elections state-to-state, even with the Electoral College (i.e. most states assign all electors to the state popular vote winner, but Maine for example does not; they split their electors). But along the same lines I understand Cincy's point about due process; in that very same state of Maine the ruling came from a single person (the state AG I believe) to remove him from the ballot. That doesn't seem to be due process IMHO. 

While it was 9-0 on the main finding of the case, it was basically 5-4 on how far the majority opinion was willing to go beyond the main finding essentially saying nobody but Congress has any enforcement power. 

I think they wrote it this way for two reasons:

• If Trump wins the election, but perhaps between Election Day and Inauguration (so he can't yet pardon himself) he is convicted in federal court of engaging in insurrection, SCOTUS can invalidate any attempt by anyone except Congress (such as the Attorney General) to stop him from taking office and/or remove him when he does. And if Republicans can hold 50%+1 seats in either house (potentially likely if their party takes the White House), then that won't happen. I think it was quite clearly motivated reasoning. 
• I think they realize that they can't stomach the idea of granting full legal immunity to anything and everything a President does while in office, which is on their docket and so they're going to have to rule against Trump. So by not allowing anyone but Congress to enforce 14AS3, it's possible that he might still face trial for the insurrection, still be convicted, and still end up in the White House. 

I think it's an interesting legal case. I think there are areas where SCOTUS went too far and there may be political motivation to go above and beyond the findings necessary to conclude this case. And I think that can be clearly and rightly criticized even if you agree with the main finding.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2024, 10:45:19 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 05, 2024, 01:04:14 AM

youve got too much time on your hands

No I have not read it but I listened to several others that have and as can be seen from my prior post have a pretty good understanding what the meat of it is

Question: did you listen to "several others that have" from both sides of the aisle, or only conservative media outlets?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 10:48:29 AM

Trump presses Supreme Court to rule for him on presidential immunity | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4507027-trump-presses-supreme-court-to-rule-for-him-on-presidential-immunity/)

"If a president does a good job, a president should be free and clear and, frankly, celebrated for having done a good job,” Trump said Monday. “Not indicted four times and not gone after on a civil basis and not demanded to pay hundreds of millions of dollars in fines.”


I don't know how one can clearly define with is, or is not, "a good job", and it has nothing to do with immunity of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 05, 2024, 10:57:30 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2024, 10:45:19 AM

Question: did you listen to "several others that have" from both sides of the aisle, or only conservative media outlets?

I listen to the ones that have been proven right many times in the past

with so many folks out there giving opinions you included its not hard to spot the ones who prove correct much more then incorrect

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 05, 2024, 11:00:22 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 10:48:29 AM

Trump presses Supreme Court to rule for him on presidential immunity | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4507027-trump-presses-supreme-court-to-rule-for-him-on-presidential-immunity/)

"If a president does a good job, a president should be free and clear and, frankly, celebrated for having done a good job,” Trump said Monday. “Not indicted four times and not gone after on a civil basis and not demanded to pay hundreds of millions of dollars in fines.”


I don't know how one can clearly define with is, or is not, "a good job", and it has nothing to do with immunity of course.

Sure it does

The President has to make many difficult decisions and should not be afraid to do so

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2024, 11:05:57 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 05, 2024, 11:00:22 AM

Sure it does

The President has to make many difficult decisions and should not be afraid to do so

Yeah, and if the SCOTUS grants complete and total Presidential immunity to anything a President does while in office, what's to stop Biden from sending a SEAL team to kill Trump? 

Sometimes ya just gotta make difficult decisions for the good of the country. You don't want to be subject to some prosecutor on a "witch hunt" after your term ends.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 05, 2024, 11:06:21 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2024, 10:42:51 AM

I think they wrote it this way for two reasons:

• If Trump wins the election, but perhaps between Election Day and Inauguration (so he can't yet pardon himself) he is convicted in federal court of engaging in insurrection, SCOTUS can invalidate any attempt by anyone except Congress (such as the Attorney General) to stop him from taking office and/or remove him when he does. And if Republicans can hold 50%+1 seats in either house (potentially likely if their party takes the White House), then that won't happen. I think it was quite clearly motivated reasoning.
• I think they realize that they can't stomach the idea of granting full legal immunity to anything and everything a President does while in office, which is on their docket and so they're going to have to rule against Trump. So by not allowing anyone but Congress to enforce 14AS3, it's possible that he might still face trial for the insurrection, still be convicted, and still end up in the White House.

I think it's an interesting legal case. I think there are areas where SCOTUS went too far and there may be political motivation to go above and beyond the findings necessary to conclude this case. And I think that can be clearly and rightly criticized even if you agree with the main finding.

there was no insurrection

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 05, 2024, 11:09:14 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2024, 11:05:57 AM

Yeah, and if the SCOTUS grants complete and total Presidential immunity to anything a President does while in office, what's to stop Biden from sending a SEAL team to kill Trump?

Sometimes ya just gotta make difficult decisions for the good of the country. You don't want to be subject to some prosecutor on a "witch hunt" after your term ends.

which is happening right now and interfering in the election

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 05, 2024, 11:37:53 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 05, 2024, 09:35:40 AM

NYT is a joke, it’s complete propaganda, fake news if you will, a tool of the establishment of the Democratic Party, and the people who actually read it and believe it are legit retarded.

Their entire Gaza reporting is falling apart at the seams and blowing up in their face. Just like all their fake news stories about Russiagate. Or the Iraq War and WMDs. Or that Hunter Biden’s laptop was Russian propaganda. Or it’s many outright lies about COVID.

Nothing to see there, retards gonna retard.

Dude. You really need to quit reading the Epoch Times, the RNC day sheets, and whatever other sources that have you hair-trigger angry all the time. Being hair-trigger angry all the time is a really lousy way to live.

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 05, 2024, 11:06:21 AM

there was no insurrection

Many Americans need to learn how to lose.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2024, 11:39:11 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 05, 2024, 11:09:14 AM

which is happening right now and interfering in the election

Maybe if you don't want to be subjected to trials during election season, try not to commit crimes? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 05, 2024, 11:40:11 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2024, 11:39:11 AM

Maybe if you don't want to be subjected to trials during election season, try not to commit crimes?

or by running against Brandon

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 05, 2024, 11:42:32 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 05, 2024, 11:37:53 AM

Dude. You really need to quit reading the Epoch Times, the RNC day sheets, and whatever other sources that have you hair-trigger angry all the time. Being hair-trigger angry all the time is a really lousy way to live.

Many Americans need to learn how to lose.

or how to not lose

weve taken notes on harvesting

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 05, 2024, 11:52:31 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 05, 2024, 11:40:11 AM

or by running against Brandon

You're gonna have to explain who this Brandon dude is you keep talking about. No one in the higher reaches of the current administration is named Brandon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 12:01:01 PM

Let’s go Brandon!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 05, 2024, 12:09:13 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 05, 2024, 11:06:21 AM

there was no insurrection

It seems like that woulda been the easiest out for the court. But doesn’t sound like they took that path. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 05, 2024, 12:10:02 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 05, 2024, 11:52:31 AM

You're gonna have to explain who this Brandon dude is you keep talking about. No one in the higher reaches of the current administration is named Brandon.

From this
listen very carefully to what the crowd is saying


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9UjgITXUJ4

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 05, 2024, 12:11:27 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 05, 2024, 12:09:13 PM

It seems like that woulda been the easiest out for the court. But doesn’t sound like they took that path.

They dont have to cause everybody knows it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 05, 2024, 12:44:23 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 05, 2024, 12:11:27 PM

They dont have to cause everybody knows it

That is decidedly not how this works.

If this simply wasn’t an insurrection, the court could clearly and narrowly define an “insurrection” in a 14th amendment context and say this wasn’t it. Would’ve been easy.

Instead, we catch this kind of knotty thing that limits the power of states. I guess there’s certain value in handing that kind of thing over to the federal government. It does lead to some oddities (states have long had some hand in this kind of thing, but apparently that was illusory or wrong).

But at a point, it is what it is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2024, 12:50:27 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 05, 2024, 12:10:02 PM

From this
listen very carefully to what the crowd is saying


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9UjgITXUJ4

The "Let's Go Brandon" thing is just dumb. 

It would be one thing if it was Biden who was saying that's what a crowd was chanting. It would be another if it was a Democrat or even a left-leaning media member saying that's what a crowd was chanting. Then it would be dunking on Biden / the left. 

But it's not. It's a goddamn NASCAR reporter playing to a (likely mostly conservative) NASCAR viewing audience trying to deflect and thinking she was clever because a guy named Brandon won the race. 

It's not clever. It's not funny. It's not even mocking Biden or the left because they were completely uninvolved in it. 

I'd tell people that use it "you can do better", but I'm not sure they can...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 12:51:17 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 05, 2024, 12:11:27 PM

They dont have to cause everybody knows it

Not "everybody".  Clearly quite a few folks "know" it was an insurrection.  As with most things today, it's in the eye of the beholder.  (I personally am not concerned with what to call the thing, I'll leave that for the courts or jurists to define.)


January 6 U.S. Capitol Attack| Background, Events, Criminal Charges, & Facts | Britannica


Because its object was to prevent a  (https://www.britannica.com/event/January-6-U-S-Capitol-attack)[color=var(--link-color)]legitimate[/color] (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/legitimate) president-elect from assuming office, the attack was widely regarded as an [color=var(--link-color)]insurrection[/color] (https://www.britannica.com/topic/insurrection-politics) or attempted [color=var(--link-color)]coup d’état[/color] (https://www.britannica.com/topic/coup-detat).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 05, 2024, 12:53:38 PM

Name-calling is childish, immature behavior in any context.

Brandon or potted plant or orange man.  Stupid, immature name-calling.

Everyone on this forum should be better than that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2024, 12:55:02 PM

It was a poor attempt at insurrection 

The attempt failed miserably 

Why did it fail???

Not because the capital police stopped it.

It really wasn't much of an attempt in my opinion 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 12:55:07 PM

What caused the Facebook, Instagram outages today? (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/homenews/nexstar_media_wire/4509645-what-caused-the-facebook-instagram-outages/)

This apparently constituted a major crisis for the Republic, the entire world in fact.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on March 05, 2024, 01:01:48 PM

Welp, I just voted in the R primary. 

President -none of the above. I don’t like any of them. 

Most candidates didn’t earn my vote either. I just skipped most of them. 

Voted for sheriff,  precinct   commissioner. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 01:06:05 PM

I'd say when I vote I have zero clue about 90% of the races, none.  It gets annoying, but I'm lazy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2024, 01:11:31 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 05, 2024, 12:55:02 PM

It was a poor attempt at insurrection

The attempt failed miserably

Why did it fail???

Not because the capital police stopped it.

It really wasn't much of an attempt in my opinion

That's kinda true with all insurrections. Every single insurrection in history has failed. 

If they succeed, they're called revolutions. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 01:15:27 PM

18 U.S. Code §2383, which provides that:

Quote

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

Insurrections and other acts of violence against governments by their own citizens or subjects (some of which are not clearly distinguishable from revolutions, coups d’état (https://www.britannica.com/topic/coup-detat), civil wars (https://www.britannica.com/topic/civil-war), or resistance to foreign rule) are commonplace in world history (https://www.britannica.com/topic/world-history). Among many historically significant insurrections of the 20th and 21st centuries are the March on Rome (https://www.britannica.com/event/March-on-Rome) of 1922, which brought Benito Mussolini (https://www.britannica.com/biography/Benito-Mussolini) and his National Fascist Party (https://www.britannica.com/topic/Fascist-Party) to power in Italy; the July Plot (https://www.britannica.com/event/July-Plot) against Adolf Hitler (https://www.britannica.com/biography/Adolf-Hitler) in 1944; the briefly successful Hungarian Revolution (https://www.britannica.com/event/Hungarian-Revolution-1956) of 1956; the student revolt in Paris in May 1968 (https://www.britannica.com/event/events-of-May-1968); the Zapatista (https://www.britannica.com/topic/Zapatista-National-Liberation-Army) rebellion in Mexico beginning in 1994; and the United States Capitol attack of January 2021 (https://www.britannica.com/event/January-6-U-S-Capitol-attack).

Insurrection | Definition, Laws, Examples, & Facts | Britannica (https://www.britannica.com/topic/insurrection-politics)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 05, 2024, 01:17:57 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2024, 01:11:31 PM

That's kinda true with all insurrections. Every single insurrection in history has failed.

If they succeed, they're called revolutions.

The American people were not fooled

they know it was never an insurrection

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 05, 2024, 01:19:59 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 05, 2024, 12:55:02 PM

It was a poor attempt at insurrection

The attempt failed miserably

Why did it fail???

Not because the capital police stopped it.

It really wasn't much of an attempt in my opinion

Yeah, a bunch of weirdos entered the capitol unarmed and taking selfies does not constitute an insurrection in my mind. I don't think that was on the minds of most of those dumbasses when they did it.

But here we are.

The far-right is paying for their actions that day. Locked up and held without bail.

The far-left burns down court houses and walks away.

That's the biggest thing in my mind. The DOJ is politicized. CIA and FBI too. That's a problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 05, 2024, 01:22:17 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 05, 2024, 01:19:59 PM

Yeah, a bunch of weirdos entered the capitol unarmed and taking selfies does not constitute an insurrection in my mind. I don't think that was on the minds of most of those dumbasses when they did it.

But here we are.

The far-right is paying for their actions that day. Locked up and held without bail.

The far-left burns down court houses and walks away.

That's the biggest thing in my mind. The DOJ is politicized. CIA and FBI too. That's a problem.

1st thing Trump is going to do is pardon those folks

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 01:22:43 PM

I hear two very disparate stories about January 6.

1.  Some folks wondered through the building taking selfies, and

2.  An angry mob attacked the Capitol with the intent of overturning the electoral process.

I think some of the folks were in Part 1, but quite a few were in Part 2.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2024, 01:24:06 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 05, 2024, 01:17:57 PM

The American people were not fooled

they know it was never an insurrection

Ahh, yes, it was just a peaceful tour of the Capitol that got a little out of hand. 

It was a language thing. They didn't threaten to hang Mike Pence to get him to abrogate his duties and not certify the election, prevent the peaceful transfer of power, and award the loser of the election four more years in the White House. They just wanted to hang out with Mike Pence because he's such a cool dude. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 05, 2024, 01:27:41 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 01:22:43 PM

I hear two very disparate stories about January 6.

1.  Some folks wondered through the building taking selfies, and

2.  An angry mob attacked the Capitol with the intent of overturning the electoral process.

I think some of the folks were in Part 1, but quite a few were in Part 2. 

and yet after reviewing all the video we have yet to see version 2 people

kinda like those covid bats

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 01:30:56 PM

You've never seen video of violence on January 6?  Really?  Huh.

Some of it looked awful, to me anyway.  Maybe that was CGI or something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 05, 2024, 01:39:26 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 01:22:43 PM

I hear two very disparate stories about January 6.

1.  Some folks wondered through the building taking selfies, and

2.  An angry mob attacked the Capitol with the intent of overturning the electoral process.

I think some of the folks were in Part 1, but quite a few were in Part 2. 

I would suggest that a few participated in Part 2 while a majority were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2024, 01:45:16 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 05, 2024, 01:27:41 PM

and yet after reviewing all the video we have yet to see version 2 people

kinda like those covid bats

All the video? You've reviewed it all? 

You can't even take the time to read a 20 page SCOTUS opinion. I guess because you were reviewing hundreds of hours of footage? 

I guess you must have missed this one... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXnHIJkZZAs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 05, 2024, 01:48:56 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 05, 2024, 01:39:26 PM

I would suggest that a few participated in Part 2 while a majority were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.

That's where I'm at with this. And they were stupid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 02:01:53 PM

There were enough violent types to overcome barriers and the Capitol Police and others.  There must have been hundreds who were engaged in the attack, the videos all suggest there were a lot of them.  I don't think 20 or 50 could have done all that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 05, 2024, 02:05:23 PM

Do we know exactly how many got inside? I don't think I ever saw a count.

And yes, there were some very bad (unarmed) actors involved. The zip tie thing hit me the most. That is bad intention.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2024, 02:08:34 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2024, 11:05:57 AM

Yeah, and if the SCOTUS grants complete and total Presidential immunity to anything a President does while in office, what's to stop Biden from sending a SEAL team to kill Trump?

Oh or you mean like Obama from sending drones to kill American citizens? Cause he did that. Five times. One of which was a fcking 15 year old boy. Where was the due process there to deny American citizens life? Let's not forget his illegal wars of aggression in Syria and Libya which displaced, maimed, or killed millions and lead both to becoming essentially failed states. Was he charged for those crimes? Or about his governments massive illegal warrantless spying program. Charged with any of those crimes?

What about George W Bush from illegally lying the US into a war of aggression and occupation in Iraq in which as many as a million Iraqi's were killed as a result of that illegal war and many millions more displaced and maimed. If that wasn't bad enough, the son of a bitch ordered a world wide torture program- a violation of our own laws let alone international law.

Presidents are never charged for their crimes. Ever. If the laws from the Nuremberg trials were applied then just about every US President post WWII would be hung.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2024, 02:11:23 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 05, 2024, 11:37:53 AM

Dude. You really need to quit reading the Epoch Times, the RNC day sheets, and whatever other sources that have you hair-trigger angry all the time. Being hair-trigger angry all the time is a really lousy way to live.

Many Americans need to learn how to lose.

I've never even heard of the Epoch Times and I am not a republican by any stretch of the imagination.

Oh you mean like the Democrats, who claimed for 8+ years after Hillary lost that Russia was behind it all and the President was a Putin puppet? Yeah, I agree, the psycho Democrats need to learn how to lose.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2024, 02:13:15 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 09:42:36 AM

Do you often read the NYT? 

Most of it, in my view, is apolitical, and well written, and can be interesting (or not).  I read it rarely myself, usually when it's free from a hotel or something.  I do get a daily email from one of their writers that can be pretty good.

I guess I'm retarded.

I've read it for years. I still do. It's GREAT for a laugh. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 02:13:21 PM

Wiki says more than 2,000 entered the building.  And some nenver engaged in violence or destruction, but clearly a goodly number did.

More than 1,230 people have been charged with federal crimes in the riot, ranging from misdemeanor offenses like trespassing to felonies like assaulting police officers (https://apnews.com/article/matthew-kroll-militia-sentence-capitol-riot-3fabdbebfe992d818e36eac6699a6e5d) and seditious conspiracy (https://apnews.com/article/jan-6-enrique-tarrio-seditious-conspiracy-trial-f8738f17552cda21eef6d89504da2a0e). Roughly 730 people have pleaded guilty to charges, while another roughly 170 have been convicted of at least one charge at a trial decided by a judge or a jury, according to an Associated Press database.

Only two defendants have been acquitted of all charges, and those were trials decided by a judge rather than a jury.
About 750 people have been sentenced, with almost two-thirds receiving some time behind bars. Prison sentences have ranged from a few days of intermittent confinement to 22 years in prison. The longest sentence (https://apnews.com/article/enrique-tarrio-capitol-riot-seditious-conspiracy-sentencing-da60222b3e1e54902db2bbbb219dc3fb) was handed down to Enrique Tarrio, the former Proud Boys national chairman who was convicted of seditious conspiracy for what prosecutors described as a plot to stop the transfer of power from Trump, a Republican, to Joe Biden, a Democrat.

Many rioters are already out of prison after completing their sentences, including some defendants who engaged in violence. Scott Fairlamb — a New Jersey man who punched a police officer during the riot and was the first Jan. 6 defendant to be sentenced for assaulting law enforcement (https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-sentence-scott-fairlamb-8fef3ecc6888ace1b9f949f21b625363) — was released from Bureau of Prisons’ custody in June.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2024, 02:14:41 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2024, 11:39:11 AM

Maybe if you don't want to be subjected to trials during election season, try not to commit crimes?

being charged with a crime does not = committing a crime. people are innocent until proven guilty.

some of these alleged crimes, not all, some- especially the NY civil cases- are complete and utter horseshit and aren't crimes at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2024, 02:18:47 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 12:55:07 PM

What caused the Facebook, Instagram outages today? (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/homenews/nexstar_media_wire/4509645-what-caused-the-facebook-instagram-outages/)

This apparently constituted a major crisis for the Republic, the entire world in fact.

pretty odd this happened like not even a week or so after ATT has massive outages. I didn't have cell service for an entire day that day. was actually kind of nice.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2024, 02:20:18 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 05, 2024, 12:09:13 PM

It seems like that woulda been the easiest out for the court. But doesn’t sound like they took that path.

not really. they went with the easiest out. the constitution. read section 5 of article 14 of the US constitution. case closed. end of story. no need to say more. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2024, 02:32:55 PM

kinda crazy how people throw around words where they don't belong and then words start to lose their meanings.

insurrection is a very specific thing with a very specific meaning.

putting that aside, even if it was an insurrection (it wasn't) but even if it was- would be impossible to pin that on Trump. his public statements were always "protest peacefully" which is his 1st amendment right to say and those people have 1st amendment rights to protest (peacefully of course). Pretty open and shut, cased close. He never publicly stated- hey guys- go commit trespassing, property damage, or assault. His exact words were "protest peacefully".

But OMERG it was such an insurrection these dipshits forgot to bring their guns or kill anyone! What an insurrection! LULZ.

By the way in regards to the FBI there is 1000000% way more to that story than they are letting on. They likely had agents on the ground. And they FOR SURE had intelligence this could happen and ignored it all instead of beefing up security. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2024, 02:40:50 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 05, 2024, 02:08:34 PM

Oh or you mean like Obama from sending drones to kill American citizens? Cause he did that. Five times. One of which was a fcking 15 year old boy. Where was the due process there to deny American citizens life? Let's not forget his illegal wars of aggression in Syria and Libya which displaced, maimed, or killed millions and lead both to becoming essentially failed states. Was he charged for those crimes? Or about his governments massive illegal warrantless spying program. Charged with any of those crimes?

What about George W Bush from illegally lying the US into a war of aggression and occupation in Iraq in which as many as a million Iraqi's were killed as a result of that illegal war and many millions more displaced and maimed. If that wasn't bad enough, the son of a bitch ordered a world wide torture program- a violation of our own laws let alone international law.

Those are very different situations. While we can argue the particulars about every one of those individual cases, there is really no argument whatsoever that those actions were taken as part of the President's official capacity and duties to protect national security. You can argue they were wrong, you can argue the violate international law, and it's STILL a completely different situation. 

Quote

Presidents are never charged for their crimes. Ever. If the laws from the Nuremberg trials were applied then just about every US President post WWII would be hung.

So if Presidents are never charged with their crimes, and have total immunity, what's to stop Biden from having Trump killed? Biden should have nothing to fear doing so, right? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2024, 02:47:18 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 05, 2024, 02:20:18 PM

not really. they went with the easiest out. the constitution. read section 5 of article 14 of the US constitution. case closed. end of story. no need to say more.

And yet they did say more. 

Section 5 says that Congress has power to enforce. It doesn't say nobody else can enforce. And the entire purpose of the Enforcement Act of 1870 was the [very rational] fear that the Southern states, who SHOULD be able to enforce this, wouldn't do so. And so you had to create new law to enforce upon them what they were supposed to enforce themselves. 

And then SCOTUS went above and beyond that and said that ONLY Congress can ever enforce 14AS3. If Trump is convicted, a Federal Court can't issue an order barring him from office as part of the sentence. The Attorney General of the United States cannot issue an order barring him from office. They didn't need to say that. It was plainly an additional layer of protection for Trump, and one that 4 of the 9 justices called out as an unnecessary overreach.

So if they were going to overreach, why not just declare that the Colorado courts were wrong and Trump wasn't engaging in an insurrection, and end the matter entirely? Oh, yeah, because it would make SCOTUS look like fools. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 05, 2024, 02:49:07 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 05, 2024, 12:53:38 PM

Name-calling is childish, immature behavior in any context.

Brandon or potted plant or orange man.  Stupid, immature name-calling.

Everyone on this forum should be better than that.

Pot stirrer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 02:57:58 PM

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4506250-sentinel-icbm-air-force-skyrocketing-cost/


Military program goes over budget.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 05, 2024, 03:20:22 PM

Obvious is obvious.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2024, 03:31:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 02:57:58 PM

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4506250-sentinel-icbm-air-force-skyrocketing-cost/


Military program goes over budget. 

just another day in paradise

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 05, 2024, 03:45:44 PM

best Jan 6th report Ive seen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2e5av7amog

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2024, 03:50:39 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 05, 2024, 03:45:44 PM

best Jan 6th report Ive seen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2e5av7amog

not surprisingly coming from Glenn Greenwald. by far the most important American journalist since Sy Hersh and the most important of this era for sure, and one of the last remaining actual journalists and not a pure propagandist of the state like most of the rest.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 05, 2024, 05:29:52 PM

https://alaskapublic.org/2024/03/04/the-2024-iditarod-starts-saturday-heres-what-to-know/

The race is on: What to know about the 2024 Iditarod
March 4, 2024

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/iditarod-champion-dallas-seavey-kills-moose-in-self-defense-after-incident-with-dog-team/ar-BB1jn8Hr

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 05:32:57 PM

Seems like a lot of mush to me ....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2024, 06:08:28 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 01:22:43 PM

I hear two very disparate stories about January 6.

1.  Some folks wondered through the building taking selfies, and

2.  An angry mob attacked the Capitol with the intent of overturning the electoral process.

I think some of the folks were in Part 1, but quite a few were in Part 2. 

A lot of #2s turned into #1s once they didn't find any lawmakers anywhere and they were barred from exploring any further.
Think they'd have switched over if they found Pence walking in the hallway?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2024, 06:26:36 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2024, 06:08:28 PM

A lot of #2s turned into #1s once they didn't find any lawmakers anywhere and they were barred from exploring any further.
Think they'd have switched over if they found Pence walking in the hallway?

well there's really no way to charge them with pre-crime....we can only charge them with crimes they actually committed, this ain't minority report, hombre.

Mike Pence could use an ass whooping or two if you're asking me. He should also probably come out of the closet. No one can hate gay people that much without being a closeted gay who is ashamed and hates themselves. The right-wing nutjob Jesus Freaks like Pence are typically the ones with the craziest skeletons in the closet...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 06:32:57 PM

Pence should be physically assaulted?  To what end?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2024, 06:35:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 06:32:57 PM

Pence should be physically assaulted?  To what end?

yeah, uhm, I was kidding. I really don't condone violence.

Pence is a major douche however.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2024, 11:09:45 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 01:22:43 PM

I hear two very disparate stories about January 6.

1.  Some folks wondered through the building taking selfies, and

2.  An angry mob attacked the Capitol with the intent of overturning the electoral process.

I think some of the folks were in Part 1, but quite a few were in Part 2. 

1. some folks wondered through the building taking selfies
2. an angry mob attacked the Capitol because they were angry with little idea what they were doing
3. a very few people in groups like the proud boys and a few others hoped they'd be able to overturn the electoral process without guns or other means of force and no other plan.  They were there mostly hoping they'd be noticed by Trump as supporters.

it was a complete farce

the entire event had ZERO chance of overturning the electoral process even though the capitol police put up very little resistance.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on March 06, 2024, 07:28:01 AM

I still have no clue wtf the capitol police were even doing. It was their job to protect the capitol. They had guns. People were breaching a secure area. 

I tend to agree with #1, like 95%, because the protesters didn’t have guns. If they would’ve been armed it could have gotten really ugly. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2024, 07:33:12 AM

Police are not allowed to use firearms (legally) except to protect themselves or others from serious bodily harm.  This is why they don't fire into crowds who are clearly rioting and destroying property.  The Capitol Police were attempting to use barricades and some nonlethal methods (tear gas, pepper spray) to deter the crowds.  This seems to have further enraged and already angry crowd.  

There was the one incident of course where a CP fired his weapon (which remains controversial in terms of its use).  I continue to be struck by the two such very different views of this event.  I see both on social media fairly often if the topic comes up (along with the usual "what about this!!!" bringing in how government responded to some entirely different situation).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 06, 2024, 08:02:47 AM

#45 offered up the National Guard to the former House Speaker and was rejected.

What does that tell you?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2024, 08:09:14 AM

If it was true, I don't make anything from it, other than that mistakes were made by various and sundry. But I don't think it's true as the NG operates at the behest of governors, not the President (unless Federalized).  This is yet another claim I don't find to be credible.

Banks Discusses Claim That Trump Ordered National Guard Troops to Deploy on Jan. 6 in AP Article (syr.edu) (https://www.maxwell.syr.edu/news/article/banks-discusses-claim-that-trump-ordered-national-guard-troops-to-deploy-on-jan-6-in-ap-article)

Trump White House aide points finger at Jan. 6 National Guard call-up in 14th Amendment trial | The Hill (https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4288201-trump-jan-6-national-guard-14th-amendment-trial/)

Trump alleges Pelosi turned down 10,000 soldiers ahead of Capitol riot: 'She’s responsible for Jan 6' | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-alleges-pelosi-turned-down-10000-soldiers-capitol-riot-responsible-jan-6)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 06, 2024, 08:13:36 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 06, 2024, 07:33:12 AM

Police are not allowed to use firearms (legally) except to protect themselves or others from serious bodily harm.  This is why they don't fire into crowds who are clearly rioting and destroying property.  The Capitol Police were attempting to use barricades and some nonlethal methods (tear gas, pepper spray) to deter the crowds.  This seems to have further enraged and already angry crowd. 

yet, the crowd did nothing but take a few selfies
even extremists like the proud boys had no real plan and did really nothing 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2024, 08:28:21 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/hhvD9kE.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 06, 2024, 08:30:58 AM

Matt Finkes on Twitter suggesting Barry Alvarez has passed away. But haven't seen any confirmation

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 06, 2024, 09:30:51 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 06, 2024, 08:30:58 AM

Matt Finkes on Twitter suggesting Barry Alvarez has passed away. But haven't seen any confirmation

I've seen nothing on that. Can you post a link?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 06, 2024, 09:43:04 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 06, 2024, 09:30:51 AM

I've seen nothing on that. Can you post a link?

He took it down and said it was wrong. Barry is back alive.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 06, 2024, 09:53:38 AM

Love live the King.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 06, 2024, 10:16:41 AM

you tube does that all the time

they should ban this type of crap

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 06, 2024, 11:12:48 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 06, 2024, 09:53:38 AM

Love live the King.

There are a lot of people I'd wouldn't object to the Angel of Death visiting - he's not one of them.Barry gets a Yuengling

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2024, 11:13:08 AM

We all see click bait and usually recognize it ahead of time.  Usually.  I don't click on anything "sensational" in SM.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 06, 2024, 11:15:11 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 06, 2024, 11:13:08 AM

We all see click bait and usually recognize it ahead of time.  Usually.  I don't click on anything "sensational" in SM.

Definitely. Which is why it caught my interest because it definitely wasn't clickbait.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2024, 11:17:38 AM

Global Entry is a scam IMHO.  My wife wanted this, I have not found the regular lines to be excessive of late, but she signed me up, or thought she did.  She waited for an "appointment" for months, literally, and got one this morning.  So, we trapse to the airport and the lady tells us it's ONE appointment, not for both of us.  That was not clear at all.

So, she goes in, has a one minute "appointment" and then chit chats a bit.  I'm outside, and another couple come in saying they drove 4 hours for their "dual" appoinment, learn the same thing we did.  My wife said there is almost nothing to the "interview", they could have slid me in easily in the time allotted.

I was not amused.  She wants to get me an appointment and I said "no thanks".  An hour and a half wasted, not counting all the time spent trying to get this silly appointment.  We'll see in two weeks if she gets through any faster than me enough to make up for the time lost today.

Guvmint.....  and of course in the office were 4-5 "officers" doing nothing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 06, 2024, 11:23:20 AM

It was easy at ORD when we did it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2024, 11:26:15 AM

Just getting an appointment is a drawn out mess.  Everyone who came in made some comment like "Whew, it took me a year to get this appointment.".

The other couple that had the same deal as us was unhappy after driving so long to get there.  Anyway, we'll find out if it saves any time in two weeks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 06, 2024, 11:30:16 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 06, 2024, 11:17:38 AM

Global Entry is a scam IMHO.  My wife wanted this, I have not found the regular lines to be excessive of late, but she signed me up, or thought she did.  She waited for an "appointment" for months, literally, and got one this morning.  So, we trapse to the airport and the lady tells us it's ONE appointment, not for both of us.  That was not clear at all.

So, she goes in, has a one minute "appointment" and then chit chats a bit.  I'm outside, and another couple come in saying they drove 4 hours for their "dual" appoinment, learn the same thing we did.  My wife said there is almost nothing to the "interview", they could have slid me in easily in the time allotted.

I was not amused.  She wants to get me an appointment and I said "no thanks".  An hour and a half wasted, not counting all the time spent trying to get this silly appointment.  We'll see in two weeks if she gets through any faster than me enough to make up for the time lost today.

Guvmint.....  and of course in the office were 4-5 "officers" doing nothing.

I suggest you just make the appointment. 

• If she stops using Global Entry because you didn't do it (and she wants you two to stay together through customs), she's going to be pissed at you for not doing it. 
• If you two go through different lines and she's stuck waiting for you because the normal line is slower, she's going to be pissed at you. 
• If you two go through different lines and you get done first DESPITE her having Global Entry, she's going to be pissed at herself and it's going to manifest at being pissed at you. 

There are times it's worth being firm, and times it's not. This will irk her about you for the next 5 years of travel, to save an hour and a half. Just suck it up and do it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 06, 2024, 11:35:46 AM

We came back from Italy one time. I had GE and the wife only had TSA.

We tested it.

I waited for her for 90 minutes at the tram terminal and had 2 bloodies and a beer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2024, 11:37:40 AM

We travel maybe twice a year internationally.  Of late, the time to get through the regular lines has been 2-3 minutes.  Last time I watched a person go through GE and they finished MAYBE a minute ahead of me, at best.  I'm sure she will complain she had to wait 2 extra minutes.  The last time we came in we waited 30 minutes for our luggage anyway.

The ATL has a glitch in that the International Terminal built a great expense only has 11 gates, so at least half the time, you arrive on Concourse F instead.  Then you walk "forever" to get to the Intl Terminal to go through customs, and then for whatever reason your luggage takes forever.  If you come in from Canada, you deplane at the regular terminal because you already cleared customs, BUT your luggage goes to the Intl Terminal, and they don't tell you that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2024, 11:38:25 AM

I've never waited more than 10-15 minutes in the US to get through customs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 06, 2024, 12:10:21 PM

Dallas is a joke. Customs there absolutely sucks, and nobody knows what they are doing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on March 06, 2024, 12:14:30 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 06, 2024, 11:26:15 AM

Just getting an appointment is a drawn out mess.  Everyone who came in made some comment like "Whew, it took me a year to get this appointment.".

The other couple that had the same deal as us was unhappy after driving so long to get there.  Anyway, we'll find out if it saves any time in two weeks.

I have Global entry and it has saved me sitting in a line of over a hundred people at customs at least once and gotten me through TSA much quicker almost all the time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2024, 01:59:18 PM

Kinda funny, also, my wife also wanted CLEAR.  OK fine, I guess we picked the wrong day to travel.  The Clear line was slower than the TSA Precheck line.  And we had to waste time entering our biometric data.  We used it in Hawaii, but he TSA line was empty anyway.  I didn't say anything.  At least it works even if it's a bit wonky in my view.

And our returm flight comes through DFW so hopefully their immigration has improved, some.

I was shocked how fast it was in England, you scan your PP and you're done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 06, 2024, 02:43:04 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 06, 2024, 01:59:18 PM

Kinda funny, also, my wife also wanted CLEAR.  OK fine, I guess we picked the wrong day to travel.  The Clear line was slower than the TSA Precheck line.  And we had to waste time entering our biometric data.  We used it in Hawaii, but he TSA line was empty anyway.  I didn't say anything.  At least it works even if it's a bit wonky in my view.

And our returm flight comes through DFW so hopefully their immigration has improved, some.

I was shocked how fast it was in England, you scan your PP and you're done.

We just did it through there on American, coming back from Mexico.

You will probably land in Terminal D. You'll then have to go to the customs area to get your bags. Then you find the line for American citizen entry and go through customs (not through the Global Entry line). You will encounter an extremely long line if it's anything like we experienced.

Then you re-check your bags at the American Counter and get your boarding passes.

Hopefully for you, your connection time is at least 3 hours. Ours was 2 hours and we barely made it - WITH Global Entry.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 06, 2024, 03:03:54 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 06, 2024, 01:59:18 PM

Kinda funny, also, my wife also wanted CLEAR.  OK fine, I guess we picked the wrong day to travel.  The Clear line was slower than the TSA Precheck line.  And we had to waste time entering our biometric data.  We used it in Hawaii, but he TSA line was empty anyway.  I didn't say anything.  At least it works even if it's a bit wonky in my view.

And our returm flight comes through DFW so hopefully their immigration has improved, some.

I was shocked how fast it was in England, you scan your PP and you're done.

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 06, 2024, 02:43:04 PM

We just did it through there on American, coming back from Mexico.

You will probably land in Terminal D. You'll then have to go to the customs area to get your bags. Then you find the line for American citizen entry and go through customs (not through the Global Entry line). You will encounter an extremely long line if it's anything like we experienced.

Then you re-check your bags at the American Counter and get your boarding passes.

Hopefully for you, your connection time is at least 3 hours. Ours was 2 hours and we barely made it - WITH Global Entry.

Ugh. That's one thing I'm worried about when we do the Ireland trip this year. Which will also be on American. 

We'd choose different routing, but the goal is for us and my in-laws from San Antonio to all be on the same flight into and leaving Dublin despite starting at different airports. So we'll probably do John Wayne -> DFW while they'll do San Antonio -> DFW and converge from there, and then Dublin -> DFW on the way back and split. 

I know the return is going to be annoying. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 06, 2024, 03:14:54 PM

You should consider everyone meeting at ORD. Very easy to navigate that airport.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 06, 2024, 03:27:29 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 06, 2024, 03:14:54 PM

You should consider everyone meeting at ORD. Very easy to navigate that airport.

I just saw a butterfly flap its wings. That will cause a cascading series of events over the course of the next 6 months leading to a 5 hour delay at ORD the day we travel. 

Because that always seems to be the case at ORD. 

(To be honest, we'll actually probably pick the connecting airport based on price / time. But given the number of SNA->DFW and SAT->DFW flights available on American, I'm just assuming that's the most likely routing. But if it's ORD, then it's all good.) 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 06, 2024, 03:34:41 PM

The only times we have trouble at ORD is when it's snowing. Other than that, it's a breeze.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on March 06, 2024, 04:34:56 PM

We are heading on a trans-Atlantic cruise at the end of April. Going to fly back out of Paris to Boston.  Haven't done customs there but I know Global entry was great coming back from Mexico and coming back from Rome. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2024, 04:36:46 PM

Good to know DFW may be a Charlie Foxtrot, but if we miss that flight, at least we're back in the US.

Paris (CDG) is my least favorite airport by far, but last time going through immigration was quite easy, but it was January.  That place gets unbelievable in August.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 06, 2024, 05:22:54 PM

DFW wasn't too bad when we went through there back in August to/from Seoul. The worst part was trying to do all of the aforementioned movements through customs on a freshly sprained ankle.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 06, 2024, 05:42:40 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 06, 2024, 01:59:18 PM

I was shocked how fast it was in England, you scan your PP and you're done.

Well if they're up to it so am I

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 06, 2024, 06:21:19 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 06, 2024, 11:35:46 AM

We came back from Italy one time. I had GE and the wife only had TSA.

We tested it.

I waited for her for 90 minutes at the tram terminal and had 2 bloodies and a beer.

so, it worked!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2024, 06:22:22 PM

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/4513801-jan-6-rioter-guilty-assaulting-capitol-officers/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on March 06, 2024, 08:29:49 PM

F me. Now I know why my brother went so crazy. Dealing with people in the public as a business owner can be difficult. 

I have a job for a customer, new construction. Not much there except a few dozers etc. I knew it was getting late, after 6 pm. I called him, no answer. I then texted him I was going to swing by to do a site visit real quick, 6:24 PM. Stopped by in a truck with signs on the side, parked in the driveway, walked to the house pad. Still daylight, but obviously the last little bit. In and out, 5 minutes. At 6:58 he texted me back that he was pissed and called the cops, I assume because he saw me on his trail cam, which I already knew was there. Which is the reason I texted him. I then called him and explained that I did call, and then texted..he hung up on me. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 06, 2024, 08:34:07 PM

seems just like another reasonable Texan to me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 06, 2024, 08:36:51 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/Nuxw2JX.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 06, 2024, 09:36:14 PM

texans

Karens

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 07, 2024, 07:17:17 AM

Quote from: Riffraft on March 06, 2024, 04:34:56 PM

We are heading on a trans-Atlantic cruise at the end of April. Going to fly back out of Paris to Boston.  Haven't done customs there but I know Global entry was great coming back from Mexico and coming back from Rome.

I love trans-Atlantic cruises coming back from Europe. Not going. I like it when we get home and there's no jet lag. They change the clocks every two days.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 07, 2024, 07:19:21 AM

Quote from: Gigem on March 06, 2024, 08:29:49 PM

F me. Now I know why my brother went so crazy. Dealing with people in the public as a business owner can be difficult.

I have a job for a customer, new construction. Not much there except a few dozers etc. I knew it was getting late, after 6 pm. I called him, no answer. I then texted him I was going to swing by to do a site visit real quick, 6:24 PM. Stopped by in a truck with signs on the side, parked in the driveway, walked to the house pad. Still daylight, but obviously the last little bit. In and out, 5 minutes. At 6:58 he texted me back that he was pissed and called the cops, I assume because he saw me on his trail cam, which I already knew was there. Which is the reason I texted him. I then called him and explained that I did call, and then texted..he hung up on me.

Those are the type of clients I fire.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2024, 08:46:42 AM

https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/4509410-states-are-banning-lab-grown-meat-theyre-making-a-big-mistake/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 07, 2024, 08:48:03 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 07, 2024, 07:17:17 AM

I love trans-Atlantic cruises coming back from Europe. Not going. I like it when we get home and there's no jet lag. They change the clocks every two days.

I get much worse jet lag headed east to Europe, than I do headed back west to the States.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on March 07, 2024, 08:51:41 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 07, 2024, 07:19:21 AM

Those are the type of clients I fire.

I'm considering it, and may do it, but I really do need the work after the slow start to the year we had.  

To give a little backstory...this guy is from Dallas, moved to Houston (for unknown reasons).  He actually has a business himself as well.  He told me he wanted to move out of the city into the country, he's building a pretty nice place in the country.  The particular area he is building in is kinda close to meth central.  In fact, I have a cousin who is serving about 40 in the pen for murdering somebody (with a knife) on some kind of meth induced craziness, that happened right down the road from there. 

He told me when we met up he had been broken into a couple of times.  He has a storage container or two there, and some equipment.  This is very much in the country, 1-10 acre spreads on backroads, a trailer park/RV park across the street.  I practically grew up there, the school bus went by there everyday.  

So I knew he had cameras from our conversation.  Which is why I called him first and then texted him, at 6:24 PM that I was going to swing by for a site visit, to see how far they've come on the house pad and if we would be ready to drill next week.  Still daylight, albeit the very end of daylight.  I am going to chat with him this week.  If I get any more bad vibes, I may bail.  But I can see why he maybe would be pissed, since he did get broken into before.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2024, 09:17:06 AM

Maybe he'll say he misread your text, or didn't see it, or the dog ate it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2024, 09:17:51 AM

I would have a hard time having income that wasn't pretty much locked in, e.g., as you have running your own business.  It's a mental thing for me, I'm not much of a risk taker.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2024, 09:20:33 AM

Social Security, Medicare: What to expect in 2024 State of the Union (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/07/social-security-medicare-what-to-expect-in-2024-state-of-the-union.html)

I personally don't look at what "leaders" say, I figure that will be 99% meant for political uptake, not real action, with a few notable exceptions.  This indeed is a third rail, and any solution is going to involve some pain for someones.  And any proposal will get pilloried by the "other side" for political purposes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2024, 09:21:33 AM

What COULD be attempted anyway, is to "compromise", and take some ideas from one side and some from the other and combine them into a package most could abide.  But it's too powerful an issue to simply do nothing and blame the other side.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 07, 2024, 09:29:51 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 07, 2024, 09:17:51 AM

I would have a hard time having income that wasn't pretty much locked in, e.g., as you have running your own business.  It's a mental thing for me, I'm not much of a risk taker.

It has not been easy, at all. We started this company in 2005 (I first was on my own in 2000). Things were great and then 2008 happened. That was a very rough stretch - I went with no pay for 30 months. Thankfully my wife had a great income that we could live off of. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 07, 2024, 09:30:56 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 07, 2024, 09:21:33 AM

What COULD be attempted anyway, is to "compromise", and take some ideas from one side and some from the other and combine them into a package most could abide.  But it's too powerful an issue to simply do nothing and blame the other side.

Tonight is going to be a shit show.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2024, 09:41:33 AM

It won't be for me.  I'll be on a thin aluminum tube somewhere over the Pacific at 500 knots risking life and limb and sleep.

I wouldn't watch or listen anyway.  One can read the speech later if one so desires in a lot less time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 07, 2024, 09:43:57 AM

I was talking about the Badger game against Rutgers (OK, not really).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on March 07, 2024, 10:06:30 AM

As is often the case, instead of getting into an angry exchange I decided to do nothing last night and this morning my customer called me and apologized.  He told me he did not see my text, but he did see where his camera let him know someone was on the property.  He has had a lot of nosy neighbors milling around his place for no good reason other than to be nosy and is getting irritated at this and other things.  He did apologize, and I let him know I will be very cognizant to let him know when we will be in there late and make sure to receive a text or call back.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2024, 10:24:45 AM

Great to hear, I kind of figured that might be the case, good to be a bit patient.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 07, 2024, 10:25:36 AM

Quote from: Gigem on March 07, 2024, 10:06:30 AM

As is often the case, instead of getting into an angry exchange I decided to do nothing last night and this morning my customer called me and apologized.  He told me he did not see my text, but he did see where his camera let him know someone was on the property.  He has had a lot of nosy neighbors milling around his place for no good reason other than to be nosy and is getting irritated at this and other things.  He did apologize, and I let him know I will be very cognizant to let him know when we will be in there late and make sure to receive a text or call back. 

You have more patience than me. Maybe 15 years ago I'd keep him as a client. Not now.

Too old for that shit, and I hate people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2024, 10:31:55 AM

I've mentioned this before, but IF you are blessed one year with higher income than is typical, look into setting up a Charitable Fund, it's pretty easy and doesn't incur fees (a tiny amount).  Then you can make future charitable donations from said fund.

And it's tax deductable in the year you fund it if you find more than your standard deduction (which today is pretty high).

$50,000 would do it, for most, more if you can manage of course.  Then you can donate however you want without worrying about not having a tax deduction.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 07, 2024, 10:37:13 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 07, 2024, 08:46:42 AM

https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/4509410-states-are-banning-lab-grown-meat-theyre-making-a-big-mistake/

Lol

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 07, 2024, 10:38:11 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 07, 2024, 10:31:55 AM

I've mentioned this before, but IF you are blessed one year with higher income than is typical, look into setting up a Charitable Fund, it's pretty easy and doesn't incur fees (a tiny amount).  Then you can make future charitable donations from said fund.

And it's tax deductable in the year you fund it if you find more than your standard deduction (which today is pretty high).

$50,000 would do it, for most, more if you can manage of course.  Then you can donate however you want without worrying about not having a tax deduction.

We did exactly this after 2018 - my record $$$$ year. Brought us down a bracket. We contribute when we can now. It gives to community colleges, private hospitals, food banks, veteran causes and other things we find compelling. Certainly nothing to politicians.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 07, 2024, 10:39:18 AM

Mike Tyson who is nearly 60 years old is fighting a 20-something YouTuber Paul brother in a boxing match live on Netflix at the Dallas Cowboys stadium. 

Make it make sense. Massive cash grab and it astounds me that this has even become a thing...YouTubers fighting ex-pro UFC fighters and boxers that are way past their primes and over the hill. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2024, 10:40:08 AM

Good to know.  There is a charity here that has a good record of getting folks off the street and cleaned up I support often.  The symphony gets a chunk, the park, some other items.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 07, 2024, 10:50:32 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 07, 2024, 08:46:42 AM

https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/4509410-states-are-banning-lab-grown-meat-theyre-making-a-big-mistake/

Dummies. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 07, 2024, 11:00:50 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 07, 2024, 10:50:32 AM

Dummies.

I agree. The guy who wrote that article is a dummie and anyone that would eat lab grown meat instead of you know, just eating the real thing is a mongoloid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2024, 11:27:22 AM

I have no inherent issue with lab grown meat in terms of eating it.  My issue really is cost.  You can grow meat cells as a culture, fine, but the protein and other ingredients have to come from somewhere.  And all that is very expensive today.    So, how do you get protein efficiently and cost effectively?

It's a "lab" thing literally, today.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 07, 2024, 11:30:34 AM

Just give me a damn cow, a damn chicken, a damn pig, and fresh seafood.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2024, 11:33:30 AM

At least the current plant based meats are, well, based on plants, fine with me, if you like them.  But to generate this in a lab?  It can be done, but at high cost.  No need to ban the stuff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 07, 2024, 11:34:20 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 07, 2024, 11:30:34 AM

Just give me a damn cow, a damn chicken, a damn pig, and fresh seafood.

yeah, no sh*t. lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 07, 2024, 11:36:07 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 07, 2024, 11:27:22 AM

I have no inherent issue with lab grown meat in terms of eating it.  My issue really is cost.  You can grow meat cells as a culture, fine, but the protein and other ingredients have to come from somewhere.  And all that is very expensive today.    So, how do you get protein efficiently and cost effectively?

It's a "lab" thing literally, today.

well first off, the sh*t looks disgusting and the texture is completely off. and even if they scaled up to bring costs down- production of the disgusting sludge fake meat would likely pollute at levels 4-25x higher than what cattle/poultry farms are right now according to a study done by the University of California. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 07, 2024, 11:37:21 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 07, 2024, 11:33:30 AM

At least the current plant based meats are, well, based on plants, fine with me, if you like them.  But to generate this in a lab?  It can be done, but at high cost.  No need to ban the stuff.

I agree. Let stupid people eat stupid things. If someone wants to eat lead or lab grown sludge "meat", more power to 'em. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2024, 11:39:15 AM

It looks like regular meat.  That's a  point of it, versus plant based "meat".  I doubt any of us have seen it in person.  

What is cultivated meat? | The Good Food Institute (gfi.org) (https://gfi.org/cultivated/?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA6KWvBhAREiwAFPZM7qI48sPHgzsjY8gtt2JdtnT4Ow7Z7erCnO11uO3DeMncUEI9UR_X-xoCCQsQAvD_BwE)


(https://i.imgur.com/I12eYKT.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: jgvol on March 07, 2024, 11:39:22 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 07, 2024, 11:36:07 AM

well first off, the sh*t looks disgusting and the texture is completely off. and even if they scaled up to bring costs down- production of the disgusting sludge fake meat would likely pollute at levels 4-25x higher than what cattle/poultry farms are right now according to a study done by the University of California.

We are truly the dumbest motherf**ckers on the planet.  Good Lord.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2024, 11:41:09 AM

Getting riled up about lab grown meat is way premature in my view.  WAY.  I don't see how they get past the cost issue.  If they do, it's years and years away from being commercial, if ever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 07, 2024, 11:47:58 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 07, 2024, 11:00:50 AM

I agree. The guy who wrote that article is a dummie and anyone that would eat lab grown meat instead of you know, just eating the real thing is a mongoloid.

I don't want to eat lab grown meat. But banning it is stupid and unnecessary. It's entirely a political stunt. 

Pun intended, it's just throwing out "red meat" for their constituencies. 

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 07, 2024, 11:33:30 AM

At least the current plant based meats are, well, based on plants, fine with me, if you like them.  But to generate this in a lab?  It can be done, but at high cost.  No need to ban the stuff.

Some of the stuff that goes into "impossible" or "beyond" meat products isn't really all that good for you to eat in quantity. 

My view is that if you're going to eat meat, eat meat. If you're not going to eat meat, don't eat meat. Eating fake meat is probably not the ideal option. 

We have portobello "burgers" on the menu for next week. I'm under no delusions that it will taste like a "burger". To me it's not a burger "replacement". We like them because portobello mushroom sandwiches on a burger bun are, quite frankly, delicious. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 07, 2024, 11:50:23 AM

My wife tried to get me to eat fake meat. Even she said it was disgusting. And it is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2024, 11:51:22 AM

Not lab grown meat though. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2024, 11:52:34 AM

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/03/07/europe/sweden-join-nato-official-intl/index.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 07, 2024, 11:56:45 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 07, 2024, 11:27:22 AM

I have no inherent issue with lab grown meat in terms of eating it.  My issue really is cost.  You can grow meat cells as a culture, fine, but the protein and other ingredients have to come from somewhere.  And all that is very expensive today.    So, how do you get protein efficiently and cost effectively?

It's a "lab" thing literally, today.

you may have spent too much time in a lab :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 07, 2024, 11:57:23 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 07, 2024, 11:51:22 AM

Not lab grown meat though.

IMHO the problem with lab grown meat would be texture, not flavor. You *might* be able to work around that somewhat for a ground beef substitute if you can also grow fat cells in there with it, but I don't know how you're ever going to get the texture of a ribeye or NY strip out of lab grown meat. 

But like you, I think the bigger issue is the cost to scale up the production to meaningful levels. If it's impossible to be anywhere near cost-competitive with real meat, it's a non-starter. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2024, 12:33:46 PM

A.  Regular meat.

B. Plant based meat.  Most of us have tried this.  Some may like it.  Many don't.

C.  "Lab grown" or cultured meat.  Not at all available anywhere, and won't be if ever for years.  No reason to ban it I can discern, or worry about it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 07, 2024, 03:33:04 PM

I wish my would have let me try lab-grown diamonds. I'd be retired.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 07, 2024, 03:34:43 PM

I moved this here @Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) 

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 07, 2024, 03:08:18 PM

well yeah sure, that tends to happen when you stretch yourself thin and give away bunch of your munition stockpiles in a proxy war and can't reproduce new ones fast enough.

having said that, US certainly still has a significantly stronger, more advanced, more capable military than China and just about the entire world combined lol.

Tell me. When was the last time is the US actually won a war.?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 07, 2024, 03:43:52 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 07, 2024, 03:34:43 PM

I moved this here @Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595)


Tell me. When was the last time is the US actually won a war.?

tell me when was the last time the US actually fought a war that was justified and wasn't complete and utter horsesh*t based off nothing but a pack of lies. probably that one.

we're really good at running through a foreign countries military like a hot knife through butter in a conventional war. not so good at playing occupier and trying to install puppet governments and imposing our way of life on countries thousands of miles away from ours that don't want it. no one is though. pretty much impossible for any military to occupy a population that doesn't want them there to begin with.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 07, 2024, 03:46:51 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 07, 2024, 03:33:04 PM

I wish my would have let me try lab-grown diamonds. I'd be retired.

I should have done that when I got my wife a pendant necklace... I swapped to lab grown when I bought her earrings, though. They look fantastic and were WAY less expensive for the quality level. 

I can't really comment on the taste though. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 07, 2024, 04:00:19 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 07, 2024, 03:46:51 PM

I should have done that when I got my wife a pendant necklace... I swapped to lab grown when I bought her earrings, though. They look fantastic and were WAY less expensive for the quality level.

I can't really comment on the taste though.

diamonds aren't that rare, shouldn't cost what they do. pretty awesome marketing campaign + impressive shenanigans by a worldwide diamond cartel to artificially control demand and supply. pretty god damn impressive actually. have to hand it to em.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 07, 2024, 05:25:20 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 07, 2024, 10:39:18 AM

Mike Tyson who is nearly 60 years old is fighting a 20-something YouTuber Paul brother in a boxing match live on Netflix at the Dallas Cowboys stadium.

Make it make sense. Massive cash grab and it astounds me that this has even become a thing...YouTubers fighting ex-pro UFC fighters and boxers that are way past their primes and over the hill.

I've been reading about Tyson. So many see he threw the hardest punch ever for a boxer.

I'll bet they never saw Ernie Shavers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 07, 2024, 05:55:57 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 07, 2024, 04:00:19 PM

diamonds aren't that rare, shouldn't cost what they do. pretty awesome marketing campaign + impressive shenanigans by a worldwide diamond cartel to artificially control demand and supply. pretty god damn impressive actually. have to hand it to em.

I used to think that, too.  But they work their way down under intense pressure for a billion years and only rise back up near the surface in specific cones sprinkled around the world.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 07, 2024, 06:20:32 PM

On par with the egg lobby 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2024, 08:42:50 AM

Anyone watch anything meaningful last night?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2024, 08:51:30 AM

nope, dinner at BWW, not much on for basketball

then a 2 hour drive home and straight to bed at 10

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 08, 2024, 09:40:24 AM

Dune 2 in theaters.

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2024, 08:42:50 AM

Anyone watch anything meaningful last night?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 08, 2024, 10:29:48 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2024, 08:42:50 AM

Anyone watch anything meaningful last night?

My wife and I watched The Other Woman (comedy with Leslie Mann, Cameron Diaz, Kate Upton). Couldn't find much else that was compelling viewing. She'd seen it before; I hadn't. 

Moderately funny movie, but I wouldn't call it meaningful in any sense. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2024, 10:31:21 AM

Kate Upton could be cornsidered meaningful

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 08, 2024, 12:36:23 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2024, 08:42:50 AM

Anyone watch anything meaningful last night?

Wisconsin basketball! Also some of the show “Shogun.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2024, 12:51:59 PM

I watched the Badgers. Hard to watch sometimes, but the runs were nice and holy crap McGee!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 08, 2024, 02:44:47 PM

You guys didnt watch the State of the Union Address???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: LetsGoPeay on March 08, 2024, 02:47:16 PM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 08, 2024, 12:36:23 PM

Wisconsin basketball! Also some of the show “Shogun.”

Shogun is on my list to watch. I read the book and remember the 80's miniseries well. I've been watching Masters of the Air. It's pretty good. Not Band of Brothers good but definitely solid. I also finished up the newest season of the NetFlix F1 show. It's always entertaining. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 08, 2024, 03:50:04 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2024, 12:51:59 PM

I watched the Badgers. Hard to watch sometimes, but the runs were nice and holy crap McGee!!!

It’s weird because he’s not all that good, but he played that way last night. 

Will be very interested if he transfers next season. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 08, 2024, 03:50:28 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 08, 2024, 02:44:47 PM

You guys didnt watch the State of the Union Address???

Forgive my language, but fuck no. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2024, 05:37:48 PM

Forgiven.

I gave it about 20 minutes of my time (he was 30 minutes late starting), and in those 20 minutes he mentioned his "predecessor" about 5 times. My understanding is that #45 was mentioned 17 times.

It was not a State of the Union Adress. It was a campaign speech. I've never witnessed such a political SOTU. I'll never get those 20 minutes back.

I turned it off and went to bed, slightly buzzed and happy with the Badger win.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 09, 2024, 11:09:22 AM

If we got a handful of you guys to react live to the SOTU speech and put it on youtube, the algorithm would love us.  

It would get all the views.  We need to monetize your displeasure for anyone with a -D by their name.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 09, 2024, 11:23:38 AM

It wasn't about the D. It was a campaign speech. Never saw anything like it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 09, 2024, 12:17:49 PM

certainly doesn't surprise me

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 09, 2024, 02:02:46 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 08, 2024, 02:44:47 PM

You guys didnt watch the State of the Union Address???

I've never busted in a TV screen my whole life - for a Cleveland Sports fan that is an accomplishment. So I chose not to tempt fate

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2024, 07:07:46 AM

Joe Biden says he was WRONG to describe Laken Riley's accused murderer as an 'illegal' and vows to never treat migrants with 'disrespect' | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13178043/joe-biden-wrong-laken-riley-illegal.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2024, 10:11:23 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 09, 2024, 11:23:38 AM

It wasn't about the D. It was a campaign speech. Never saw anything like it.

Shakespeare could have penned the speech and you'd bitch about it.
Don't pretend you're moderate.  It's insulting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 10, 2024, 10:27:55 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2024, 07:07:46 AM

Joe Biden says he was WRONG to describe Laken Riley's accused murderer as an 'illegal' and vows to never treat migrants with 'disrespect' | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13178043/joe-biden-wrong-laken-riley-illegal.html)

Joe Biden refuses to use the proper terminology for gross restrictions on the free market. News at 11.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 10, 2024, 12:01:58 PM

I just watched it. Was even worse than I was expecting. President Shits-his-Diapers leads off a state of the union speech with Ukraine. Jesus. F*cking. Christ. Yeah, cause that's like SO important to the state of OUR UNION and OUR PEOPLE. Lol. Average Americans are struggling more and more to afford homes, gas, groceries, and health care- like they really give a flying fck about the Ukraine. They don't.

Tried to divide and campaign instead of I don't know, just giving a speech about the state of the union and bringing people together? I guess when you suck at the job so much and have nothing positive to point to that you've done while in office to talk about all you can do is talk about motherfcking Ukraine and shit talk the other side.

This country needs to get this fking clown out of office and into a nursing home ASAP.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2024, 12:17:12 PM

Wall Steet Journal.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/bidens-partisan-state-of-disunion-891a9a62?st=pzqnlx23sabyuec&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2024, 12:21:43 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2024, 10:11:23 AM

Shakespeare could have penned the speech and you'd bitch about it.
Don't pretend you're moderate.  It's insulting.

You don't know me at all. I'm center-right in every political metric test I've taken.

I've voted for democrats in the past. Last one was Bill Clinton. I've voted for libertarians in the past (in 2016).

You don't know WTF you are talking about. Period.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2024, 12:27:08 PM

If you're center-right, you must feel like an orphan.  
And you wouldn't dare vote for Trump.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2024, 12:49:41 PM

We'll see what else is out there when November rolls around. 

#46 will certainly not be my choice. And he may not be a choice anyway. Same goes for #45, that latter regard.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 10, 2024, 12:50:03 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2024, 12:27:08 PM

If you're center-right, you must feel like an orphan. 
And you wouldn't dare vote for Trump.

if the choice is Trump or a potted plant there is no choice

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 10, 2024, 12:51:42 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 05, 2024, 06:58:57 AM

I think anyone will admit that - if they are truly being honest.

Everyone cares about inflation so it's not worth mention.

My vote will be based on policies - mainly two.

1. Border security.
2. No endless, pointless or proxy wars (i.e. NO WARS).

Based on his 2 stated criteria- not sure he has a choice.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2024, 01:00:35 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 10, 2024, 12:50:03 PM

if the choice is Trump or a potted plant there is no choice

Agreed.
A potted plant isn't power-hungry or suffer from multiple psychological disorders.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 10, 2024, 01:52:27 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2024, 01:00:35 PM

Agreed.
A potted plant isn't power-hungry or suffer from multiple psychological disorders.

Power Hungry???


Biden has weaponized almost every law enforcement government department to keep Trump off the ballot



 Multiple psychological Disorders???

Biden's mental ability is worse then my cat

Hes delusional and his VP is a joke

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2024, 01:55:22 PM

I would take a person chosen at random over Trump.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 10, 2024, 01:58:47 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2024, 01:55:22 PM

I would take a person chosen at random over Trump. 

it would by better then what we have now

course its a very low bar

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 10, 2024, 03:07:37 PM

I felt Trump's policies on immigration were a complete and utter joke. Though I admire him at least making a deal to get out of Afghanistan. And I admire Biden for following through with it. Trump now says he wouldn't have left, so not sure how to feel about that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 10, 2024, 03:15:31 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 10, 2024, 03:07:37 PM

I felt Trump's policies on immigration were a complete and utter joke. Though I admire him at least making a deal to get out of Afghanistan. And I admire Biden for following through with it. Trump now says he wouldn't have left, so not sure how to feel about that.

not sure having a secure border is a joke

Biden has allowed over 10 mil illegals into this country

The way Biden left Afghanistan was a disgrace 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 10, 2024, 03:20:10 PM

Bidens support for allowing transgender men to participate in women sports is also a disgrace

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 10, 2024, 03:22:17 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2024, 10:11:23 AM

Shakespeare could have penned the speech and you'd bitch about it.
Don't pretend you're moderate.  It's insulting.

Just because you're offended doesn't mean you're right. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2024, 03:29:01 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 10, 2024, 03:20:10 PM

Bidens support for allowing transgender men to participate in women sports is also a disgrace

I have a question.......is the amount that this bothers you = how much it affects your daily life?

I think not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2024, 03:29:49 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 10, 2024, 03:15:31 PM

not sure having a secure border is a joke

How did Trump secure the border?  Besides not building a wall.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 10, 2024, 03:39:11 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 10, 2024, 03:07:37 PM

I felt Trump's policies on immigration were a complete and utter joke. Though I admire him at least making a deal to get out of Afghanistan. And I admire Biden for following through with it. Trump now says he wouldn't have left, so not sure how to feel about that.

Biden stated in a town hall meeting I believe in '08 that if he was president he would take time to withdraw from Afghanistan. Like 6 months to load all provisions,personell and equipment. That's not exactly what he did the 1st chance he got - one of his provable lies leaving untold billions behind. Or does he get a mulligan for forgetting. Looks like I'll be going Ind. for my 4th straight Presidential election

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 10, 2024, 03:43:22 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2024, 03:29:01 PM

I have a question.......is the amount that this bothers you = how much it affects your daily life?

I think not.

paying $20 for a hamburger affects my daily life

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 10, 2024, 03:50:31 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 10, 2024, 03:39:11 PM

Biden stated in a town hall meeting I believe in '08 that if he was president he would take time to withdraw from Afghanistan. Like 6 months to load all provisions,personell and equipment. That's not exactly what he did the 1st chance he got - one of his provable lies leaving untold billions behind. Or does he get a mulligan for forgetting. Looks like I'll be going Ind. for my 4th straight Presidential election

He did take his time - he extended the timeline that Trump agreed on to make it as orderly as it was. I don't think there was any practical way to withdraw from a war that was ongoing in an "orderly" fashion, so a lot of the criticisms of Biden on that I think are hogwash.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 10, 2024, 04:57:48 PM

https://x.com/DavidSpade/status/1764791208654893451?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 10, 2024, 05:08:11 PM

https://www.tiktok.com/@ilypierce/video/7344395582263315754?_t=8kZ8NiyQDaI&_r=1

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 10, 2024, 05:23:23 PM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zH4MDxBd5sQ

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 10, 2024, 05:24:07 PM

It is unbelievable.  This is our choice?
🤮🤮🤮🤮

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 10, 2024, 05:30:13 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 10, 2024, 03:50:31 PM

He did take his time - he extended the timeline that Trump agreed on to make it as orderly as it was. I don't think there was any practical way to withdraw from a war that was ongoing in an "orderly" fashion, so a lot of the criticisms of Biden on that I think are hogwash.

Agreed, there was no way it was going to go well, but it was critical to get out of it regardless, so I'm on-board with the actions of both Trump and Biden on this particular subject.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2024, 06:27:02 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2024, 03:29:49 PM

How did Trump secure the border?  Besides not building a wall.

"Remain in Mexico" was one #45's EO's that was immediately deleted. It was working. Allowing Title 42 to expire (while still requiring US citizens be Covid tested upon entry into the US) was a mistake. Ordering contractors to stop building the border wall was a mistake.

Also, #46 openly invited migrants to come.

Just listen to what the border patrol has to say on the subject, and what mayors around the country are saying. 

The mayors and #46 (his handlers, I mean) all blame Congress. They are barking up the wrong tree. The amount of taxpayer money is being spend on these migrants could easily pay for thousands more border patrol personnel and immigration judges, but that's not where we are.

The wall would be done right now, by the way, and we would not have this massive problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2024, 06:34:14 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 10, 2024, 03:43:22 PM

paying $20 for a hamburger affects my daily life

Trans people are inflating the cost of beef?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2024, 06:36:41 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2024, 06:34:14 PM

Trans people are inflating the cost of beef? 

No.

Reducing production, high demand, higher fuel and grain costs are doing that.

With all meats, not just beef.

Fish too, based on high fuel costs alone.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 10, 2024, 06:44:38 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2024, 06:34:14 PM

Trans people are inflating the cost of beef? 

separate issue of which there are many

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 10, 2024, 06:45:58 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2024, 06:27:02 PM

"Remain in Mexico" was one #45's EO's that was immediately deleted. It was working. Allowing Title 42 to expire (while still requiring US citizens be Covid tested upon entry into the US) was a mistake. Ordering contractors to stop building the border wall was a mistake.

Also, #46 openly invited migrants to come.

Just listen to what the border patrol has to say on the subject, and what mayors around the country are saying.

The mayors and #46 (his handlers, I mean) all blame Congress. They are barking up the wrong tree. The amount of taxpayer money is being spend on these migrants could easily pay for thousands more border patrol personnel and immigration judges, but that's not where we are.

The wall would be done right now, by the way, and we would not have this massive problem.

I don't think the wall would do a single thing, and I mean a single thing, to help at all. 45's policy was basically to say that immigration was bad. All immigration. The inflation and lack of people available to work was pretty predictable, though by no means the sole contributing factor. But inflation absolutely is affected by 45's policy on immigration which was and remains a complete joke. Obama was the last president with a policy on immigration that was somewhat effective and actually addressed the issue in a semi-coherent way. 

With Trump we get the braindead policy that immigrants are bad. I'm not sure what Biden's policy is, it seems to bounce all over the place. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on March 10, 2024, 06:51:45 PM

The knowing surrender of our soverignty as it relates to controlling our nation's border is as reckless of an act as I've ever seen by our federal Govt in my lifetime and that is one tough competition.   

It's not even an oversight issue, it's intentional.   

It's not racist it's not anti-immigration, it's not Maga nationalism it's none of those things.    Nobody in their right mind should operate a border like this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2024, 06:55:40 PM

#45 never said immigration was bad, he said it needed to be controlled - and it was. He enhanced #44's progress, really.

Immigration is like abortion. It will never be fixed because there would be less issues to bitch about.

Neither side honestly gives a shit. They just want to stay in power.

BTW...

Try to immigrate to New Zealand. Get back to me on how that goes for you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 10, 2024, 06:57:14 PM

Quote from: MarqHusker on March 10, 2024, 06:51:45 PM

The knowing surrender of our soverignty as it relates to controlling our nation's border is as reckless of an act as I've ever seen by our federal Govt in my lifetime and that is one tough competition. 

It's not even an oversight issue, it's intentional. 

It's not racist it's not anti-immigration, it's not Maga nationalism it's none of those things.    Nobody in their right mind should operate a border like this.

I truly feel its an act of treason at worst and very unAmerican at best

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 10, 2024, 07:00:00 PM

Quote

#45 never said immigration was bad, he said it needed to be controlled - and it was. He enhanced #44's progress, really.

He enhanced it like I would enhance my car if I started trying to "improve" the engine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 11, 2024, 12:25:33 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 10, 2024, 06:44:38 PM

separate issue of which there are many

Why can't you stay on-point?!?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 11, 2024, 01:35:04 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 11, 2024, 12:25:33 AM

Why can't you stay on-point?!?

my only point is that Biden needs to go

hes bad for the country

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 11, 2024, 03:21:45 AM

Yes, we know.  Cave man talk.  Parroting what you're told.  Got it.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 11, 2024, 03:55:42 AM

People with different points of view may no more be parroting than others with different points of view.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 11, 2024, 07:49:43 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 10, 2024, 03:29:01 PM

I have a question.......is the amount that this bothers you = how much it affects your daily life?

I think not.

I see what you’re saying, this likely affects very few people’s life at all. Still does not make it right.

If you had a daughter and she was participating in women’s sports competing against other women and then all of a sudden she had to start sharing a locker room and competing against Danny- who one day out of the blue decides he feels like a girl so that means he is one and starts taking hormones, cuts off his dick and changes his name to Danielle- I doubt you’d be so cavalier about it. 

Men have many physical advantages over women, and letting them compete in sports competition with them is just flat out stupid and can even be dangerous and harmful to women if it’s any kind of contact sport. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2024, 10:41:37 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 10, 2024, 07:00:00 PM

He enhanced it like I would enhance my car if I started trying to "improve" the engine.

I disagree.

Things were working. Many good people were processed in a legal way and were allowed entry. #44 deported more people than #45 did.

Now we have no border at all, and a country without a border is NOT a country. We are losing our country. 11 million people in 3.2 years and counting. Who are these people? We don't know. That's scary to me.

I'm sure most of the people coming across are good and well-intentioned. But we just don't know who all are coming across.

There could be a terror cell in your neighborhood, and you wouldn't know it until it's too late.

To be very clear, I'm not against immigration at all. It just has to be done within the rules already on the books.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 11, 2024, 11:55:43 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 11, 2024, 03:21:45 AM

Yes, we know.  Cave man talk.  Parroting what you're told.  Got it. 

What a silly accusation.  He clearly doesn't like Biden's policies or Biden's actions.  He doesn't need someone else to tell him that "Biden must go" in order to come to that conclusion.  

You are certainly free to maintain a different opinion of Biden's policies and actions, and you are free to believe that "Biden must stay" or whatever conclusion you draw from your opinions of those policies and actions.  

If you truly believe he's just parroting then you should ask him WHY does he think Biden must go?  Which specific policies and actions are driving that opinion?  

That's how you actually have an adult conversation.

Name-calling, denigration, and ad hominem attacks are the actions of children.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2024, 12:05:37 PM

^^^ Post of the day, at least.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 11, 2024, 01:10:13 PM

it's early

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 11, 2024, 03:02:43 PM

So I spent about half the day yesterday helping my son clean and re-season 3 cast iron Dutch ovens from his Boy Scout troop.  I have no idea what those kids did to them (other than fail to clean them out, and then let them sit for a week).  Tons of flaking inside, lots of rust inside and out.  Ooff.

One of them was just cornbread so it cleaned out and seasoned pretty easily, only took a couple of cycles.  But in the other two they made a fruit cobbler, and some kind of tomato-based stew.  The acids in the fruits and vegetables really did a number on the seasoning.  I did 5 cycles on each of those.

All three look almost brand new now, but man what a mess.

Be sure to take good care of your cast iron.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2024, 03:13:03 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 11, 2024, 03:02:43 PM

So I spent about half the day yesterday helping my son clean and re-season 3 cast iron Dutch ovens from his Boy Scout troop.  I have no idea what those kids did to them (other than fail to clean them out, and then let them sit for a week).  Tons of flaking inside, lots of rust inside and out.  Ooff.

One of them was just cornbread so it cleaned out and seasoned pretty easily, only took a couple of cycles.  But in the other two they made a fruit cobbler, and some kind of tomato-based stew.  The acids in the fruits and vegetables really did a number on the seasoning.  I did 5 cycles on each of those.

All three look almost brand new now, but man what a mess.

Be sure to take good care of your cast iron.

I felt comfortable raising children before I felt comfortable owning cast iron.  :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2024, 03:27:16 PM

Cast iron doesn't like salty air much. I left mine in the cabinet of my grill, think it would be OK.

It was not OK, and I f'd up the re-seasoning cycle. So I had to start over.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 11, 2024, 03:33:22 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2024, 03:27:16 PM

Cast iron doesn't like salty air much. I left mine in the cabinet of my grill, think it would be OK.

It was not OK, and I f'd up the re-seasoning cycle. So I had to start over.

Yeah I had one that stayed out in the Airstream for one winter.  No salty air, but just too many hot-cold cycles with condensation and evaporation from the humid air.  It rusted out petty badly.  That was probably ten years ago and it's the last time, before now, I had to completely recondition any cast iron.

I will say, however, there's something satisfying about taking a wrecked piece of cast iron and making it almost new again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2024, 03:34:46 PM

I set mine up in the oven, on the cleaning cycle. Oops. What a mess. They are no longer with us.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 11, 2024, 03:42:26 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2024, 03:34:46 PM

I set mine up in the oven, on the cleaning cycle. Oops. What a mess. They are no longer with us.

The nice thing is, you can get quality cast iron, for not too much money.  A 12" Lodge skillet is only around $25.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 11, 2024, 03:43:46 PM

And that's exactly what I did.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2024, 05:09:03 PM

IMHO Lodge is fantastic. I've even gotten my wife convinced that if Lodge has a size of some sort of cast iron pan / dutch oven, that it's worth it to save the money and not buy Le Creuset. I only wish they had more of what I needed. 

I.e. the 15.5 quart dutch oven. I got a smoking deal at the Le Creuset outlet (35% off the reduced outlet price), but it was still, uhh, NOT cheap. 

This is the next one I'm eyeing: https://www.zwilling.com/us/staub-cast-iron-15.75-inch-double-handle-fry-pan-cherry-1314006/40501-044-0.html

Being enameled on the interior and being so large, it would be really useful...

Anyone know of a Lodge-ish alternative that's not so heavy on the wallet? (Note: I've looked and haven't seen one, so just throwing out a lifeline on a whim...)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 11, 2024, 05:28:45 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2024, 05:09:03 PM

IMHO Lodge is fantastic. I've even gotten my wife convinced that if Lodge has a size of some sort of cast iron pan / dutch oven, that it's worth it to save the money and not buy Le Creuset. I only wish they had more of what I needed.

I.e. the 15.5 quart dutch oven. I got a smoking deal at the Le Creuset outlet (35% off the reduced outlet price), but it was still, uhh, NOT cheap.

This is the next one I'm eyeing: https://www.zwilling.com/us/staub-cast-iron-15.75-inch-double-handle-fry-pan-cherry-1314006/40501-044-0.html

Being enameled on the interior and being so large, it would be really useful...

Anyone know of a Lodge-ish alternative that's not so heavy on the wallet? (Note: I've looked and haven't seen one, so just throwing out a lifeline on a whim...)

Lodge, Staub, Le Creuset.  You've already named the heavy hitters of big iron.

But there are a lot of knockoff brands out there nowadays.  We got our current 8 quart enameled Dutch oven for around $70 about 20 years ago at Marshall's or Tuesday Morning or one of those cheap-deal stores.  It's been fantastic.  

I see quite a few knockoffs on Amazon but can't speak to their quality.  Here's something similar to what you're looking for, for a lot less:

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/valor-17-merlot-enameled-cast-iron-skillet-with-dual-handles/825RSK17MRLT.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=GoogleShopping&gclid=CjwKCAjw17qvBhBrEiwA1rU9w2pxS99sEmOMLelvm2DVYuVSqLpeJbuVAvOzyHgpGZdHR7sug6LzsRoCYXwQAvD_BwE

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2024, 05:33:16 PM

Thanks @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) ! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 11, 2024, 05:38:51 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2024, 05:33:16 PM

Thanks @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) !

Or you might also look into a cast iron enameled casserole-- they're shallower than Dutch oven, could probably work nicely as a fry pan, plus it has a lid.  It's not quite the 15.5" you were looking at but it looks to be bigger than a 12" skillet:


https://www.amazon.com/Lodge-Casserole-Enamel-Handles-Carribbean/dp/B000N4UX4Q/ref=asc_df_B000N4UX4Q/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167129094649&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1832605028265428534&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028226&hvtargid=pla-187772982983&psc=1&mcid=41a3ad1813f6369b9934204bd26a001d&gclid=CjwKCAjw17qvBhBrEiwA1rU9w0vQf5F-oJ9MMDrOP8vBRBQ2FAKsQasg-LNghwvJi0F7LD1RpbdeNRoCeWkQAvD_BwE

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2024, 05:50:55 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 11, 2024, 05:38:51 PM

Or you might also look into a cast iron enameled casserole-- they're shallower than Dutch oven, could probably work nicely as a fry pan, plus it has a lid.  It's not quite the 15.5" you were looking at but it looks to be bigger than a 12" skillet:


https://www.amazon.com/Lodge-Casserole-Enamel-Handles-Carribbean/dp/B000N4UX4Q/ref=asc_df_B000N4UX4Q/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167129094649&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1832605028265428534&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028226&hvtargid=pla-187772982983&psc=1&mcid=41a3ad1813f6369b9934204bd26a001d&gclid=CjwKCAjw17qvBhBrEiwA1rU9w0vQf5F-oJ9MMDrOP8vBRBQ2FAKsQasg-LNghwvJi0F7LD1RpbdeNRoCeWkQAvD_BwE

Already got it (in red). Honestly my cast iron collection is already large...

• 15.5 qt Le Creuset oval dutch oven
• 6.5 qt Lodge round dutch oven
• 5.75 qt Le Creuset oval dutch oven (was my wife's before we met)
• 3.6 qt Lodge braiser (the one you linked)
• 12" Lodge cast iron skillet
• 10" Lodge cast iron skillet
• Lodge rectangular skillet (not checking dimensions, maybe 11"x22", w/ flat side and "grill mark" side)
• Kamado Joe half-circle cast iron skillet for Big Joe (half of a 24" circle)

There might be something I'm overlooking in there lol...

We were looking one day at the outlet for the Le Creuset "everyday pan" which is an enameled cast iron pan, but it was TINY. Hence looking for something like the Staub. The sort of idea for this would be doing something like schnitzel or salmon cakes with the kids. Need a lot of surface area to cook multiple portions without working in batches more than necessary, but shallow as working inside a 15.5 qt dutch oven with high walls might be a little cumbersome. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 11, 2024, 06:37:24 PM

You've certainly got me beat.  I only have a couple of 8-quart Dutch ovens and a couple of 12" skillets.  Oh and one of those reversible griddle/flat top pans like you mentioned, but we rarely use that one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2024, 07:12:15 PM

Yeah, I hate the reversible flat top / griddle pan and should probably donate it to Goodwill or something. I never use it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 12, 2024, 02:42:17 AM

Random thing:

I've been looking at different AI image generating sites and such, and I discovered one that takes regular photos and kind of makes it look like they're watercolor paintings.

It's actually https://animefilter.com/ (https://animefilter.com/) but I don't care about anime or anything.  It just looks neat to alter photos that way.



(https://i.imgur.com/B2RMM18.jpeg)


(https://i.imgur.com/IjXW8aZ.jpeg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 12, 2024, 09:07:56 AM

Read the whole thing. Very interesting.

https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/a-new-terror-threat-is-emerging-in-europe-linked-to-iran-gaza-war-fb297119?st=2bigwlzqo1fqaz9&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 12, 2024, 09:16:59 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 11, 2024, 07:12:15 PM

Yeah, I hate the reversible flat top / griddle pan and should probably donate it to Goodwill or something. I never use it.

I have one too that was an impulse buy from Costco. I've used it a couple times, but you can't really cook burgers or bacon on it (at least on the stovetop) due to the grease. But it is good for eggs and pancakes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 12, 2024, 09:25:18 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 12, 2024, 09:16:59 AM

I have one too that was an impulse buy from Costco. I've used it a couple times, but you can't really cook burgers or bacon on it (at least on the stovetop) due to the grease. But it is good for eggs and pancakes.

We have a very large electric griddle that we use for breakfast items like eggs and pancakes.  It can handle large groups much better than any of our stovetop options.

I've been really tempted to pick up a Blackstone flattop griddle but it's hard to justify with how little I'd probably use it, compared to the price.  I might rationalize it as a camping expense, though... :)

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Blackstone-36-Culinary-Omnivore-Griddle-with-Hood-4-Burner-Liquid-Propane-Flat-Top-Grill/5013690483

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 12, 2024, 09:29:24 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 12, 2024, 09:25:18 AM

We have a very large electric griddle that we use for breakfast items like eggs and pancakes.  It can handle large groups much better than any of our stovetop options.

I've been really tempted to pick up a Blackstone flattop griddle but it's hard to justify with how little I'd probably use it, compared to the price.  I might rationalize it as a camping expense, though... :)

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Blackstone-36-Culinary-Omnivore-Griddle-with-Hood-4-Burner-Liquid-Propane-Flat-Top-Grill/5013690483

Yeah I've heard people really rave about the Blackstones. And they would be handy to have, but I try to keep the garage at least hypothetically able to handle at least one car. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: LetsGoPeay on March 12, 2024, 10:12:13 AM

I have a blackstone. It is great and can be used for a wide variety of foods. I love the very large surface which allows me to cook one thing on one end and another on the other end, at different temperatures. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 12, 2024, 10:37:07 AM

I'd like to have one. I wonder if there is something I could get as a topper for my Weber Summit?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 12, 2024, 10:47:39 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 12, 2024, 10:37:07 AM

I'd like to have one. I wonder if there is something I could get as a topper for my Weber Summit?

https://www.amazon.com/Weber-7404-Cast-Iron-Griddle/dp/B0036OQK2Y/ref=asc_df_B0036OQK2Y/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=385240152170&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2134366493923100740&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028226&hvtargid=pla-430903771643&psc
=1&mcid=3a9d1bffe06f3ec79c6f95505ce21ec2&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=78287729253&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=385240152170&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2134366493923100740&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028226&hvtargid=pla-430903771643&gclid=Cj0KCQjw-r-vBhC-ARIsAGgUO2BRzAraCzm0vTXqme_ETD7UEQfNKv5RR-dpU5TfA6h1N-H4oRw3aHkaAsqmEALw_wcB

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 12, 2024, 10:51:47 AM

I had that. It rusted out completely. No place to keep it inside.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 12, 2024, 11:45:40 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 12, 2024, 10:51:47 AM

I had that. It rusted out completely. No place to keep it inside.

Well then I guess there aren't any toppers or standalone cast iron flattops that would work for you.

Maybe stainless steel?

https://www.amazon.com/Onlyfire-Universal-Stainless-Rectangular-Griddle/dp/B06Y4LWYNJ/ref=asc_df_B06Y4LWYNJ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=642169435642&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15454200517022496805&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028226&hvtargid=pla-1081646666288&mcid=60ffc3a912af32b6942bf51437697247&th=1

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 12, 2024, 11:55:25 AM

We also have the electric griddle for breakfast items, grilled cheese, etc... 

I'd like a Blackstone but I have no room. I'd probably have to get rid of the Traeger for it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 12, 2024, 12:33:45 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 12, 2024, 11:45:40 AM

Well then I guess there aren't any toppers or standalone cast iron flattops that would work for you.

Maybe stainless steel?

https://www.amazon.com/Onlyfire-Universal-Stainless-Rectangular-Griddle/dp/B06Y4LWYNJ/ref=asc_df_B06Y4LWYNJ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=642169435642&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15454200517022496805&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028226&hvtargid=pla-1081646666288&mcid=60ffc3a912af32b6942bf51437697247&th=1

Possibly. My grill gets up to 950-1000 degrees so I'd have to check on whether or not it would stand up to that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 13, 2024, 11:53:56 AM

Has anyone noticed that it seems like every 4th commercial on TV or radio these days is for whole body deodorant? When did that become a thing?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2024, 12:26:11 PM

I've noticed. Not buying it. Shower more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 13, 2024, 01:51:26 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 13, 2024, 11:53:56 AM

Has anyone noticed that it seems like every 4th commercial on TV or radio these days is for whole body deodorant? When did that become a thing?

don't watch much tv or radio. have noticed that spotify and youtube have INSANE amounts of ads however now though. much more than in the past.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2024, 01:55:22 PM

The only TV I really watch involves local news, sports and cooking.

Probably the same things BRAD watches.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 13, 2024, 01:58:28 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2024, 01:55:22 PM

The only TV I really watch involves local news, sports and cooking.

Probably the same things BRAD watches.

the only thing i watch on tv is live sports. that's why i have YouTubeTV during football season, and cancel it after. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 13, 2024, 01:59:53 PM

Seems silly to me. But I also hate the sort of marketing aspect that we all as people now have one more thing that's "wrong with us" that we need a new product to solve. 

Eff em. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2024, 02:00:28 PM

No local news?

I like one station in particular over here. They never get into political shit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 13, 2024, 02:01:24 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2024, 01:55:22 PM

The only TV I really watch involves local news, sports and cooking.

Probably the same things BRAD watches.

I don't watch local news :57:

It's mostly sports and cooking, and then some shows on Max / Netflix / etc that aren't full of commercials. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 13, 2024, 02:11:28 PM

yeah, I can't do local news either. local news is astoundingly corny, stupid, and lame most of the time if you ask me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 13, 2024, 02:17:14 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2024, 02:00:28 PM

No local news?

I like one station in particular over here. They never get into political shit.

Agreed.  They do get corny with local “ piddly” stuff but they stay balanced and unbiased on the big national stories and politics.  it’s nice hearing the facts without having somebody telling us what we are supposed to think!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2024, 02:41:06 PM

Exactly.

There are fluff stories, of course, and stuff on crime in Fort Myers and Cape Coral. Not much crime anywhere else around here.

They do some good investigative reporting and were fantastic during Ian and other storms. Weather is top notch. And they have some really good talent, if you will.

WINK News Team - WINK News (https://winknews.com/wink-news-team/)

Wink News.

What is your local news over there @Honestbuckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=37) and @Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) ? All out of Miami?

Just lost a great field reporter to a station in Miami. I miss his work.

Michael Hudak – WSVN 7News | Miami News, Weather, Sports | Fort Lauderdale (https://wsvn.com/7news-team/michael-hudak/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 13, 2024, 03:08:01 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 13, 2024, 02:41:06 PM

Exactly.

There are fluff stories, of course, and stuff on crime in Fort Myers and Cape Coral. Not much crime anywhere else around here.

They do some good investigative reporting and were fantastic during Ian and other storms. Weather is top notch. And they have some really good talent, if you will.

WINK News Team - WINK News (https://winknews.com/wink-news-team/)

Wink News.

What is your local news over there @Honestbuckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=37) and @Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) ? All out of Miami?

Just lost a great field reporter to a station in Miami. I miss his work.

Michael Hudak – WSVN 7News | Miami News, Weather, Sports | Fort Lauderdale (https://wsvn.com/7news-team/michael-hudak/)

WPTV West Palm.    

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 13, 2024, 08:54:26 PM

There are a couple of local news stations here that do a pretty good job.  A little bit of fluff, but plenty of important local stories that actually affect my family and me directly, plus very good coverage of national and international news with almost zero bias.  

I'd gotten away from local news after moving out from my parents, but then maybe 7 or 8 years ago decided to start watching it.  After decades of crazily slanted national network news and CNN and Fox, it was such a welcome change.  Really remarkable to see actual news being reported with almost no editorializing.  It  CAN be done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 14, 2024, 10:02:44 AM

Happy PI day everyone!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on March 14, 2024, 10:41:53 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 12, 2024, 11:45:40 AM

Well then I guess there aren't any toppers or standalone cast iron flattops that would work for you.

Maybe stainless steel?

https://www.amazon.com/Onlyfire-Universal-Stainless-Rectangular-Griddle/dp/B06Y4LWYNJ/ref=asc_df_B06Y4LWYNJ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=642169435642&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15454200517022496805&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028226&hvtargid=pla-1081646666288&mcid=60ffc3a912af32b6942bf51437697247&th=1

Things age differently for us coasties. 

im about 10-15 miles inland, and we still get a lot of rust from the ocean breeze. Right on the water, its like dog years. Things rust fast!  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 14, 2024, 10:44:24 AM

Yep, we're a mile or so away from the water here. Had to spend double on the hood for my outdoor kitchen, otherwise the standard one would rust - fast.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 14, 2024, 10:51:18 AM

It's also why you never buy used cars from Florida. Every car I've looked at that came from Florida, even ones that aren't flooded out, have worse salt rust on the undercarriage than ones that have seen multiple Minnesota winters.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 14, 2024, 10:55:06 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 14, 2024, 10:51:18 AM

It's also why you never buy used cars from Florida. Every car I've looked at that came from Florida, even ones that aren't flooded out, have worse salt rust on the undercarriage than ones that have seen multiple Minnesota winters.

Funny story about that... My first job out here I worked with a girl who was also from Illinois. She apparently took her car in for some sort of service and the mechanic started freaking out once he got it up on the lift due to all the undercarriage rust from the salted roads in the winters. Saying everything needed to be replaced, etc...

A more experienced mechanic came over, asked her where the car was from, and said "don't worry, you're fine."

Oddly out here I'd say I'm well under 10 miles from the coast as the crow flies, but we don't have any problems with rust from being where we are. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 14, 2024, 10:56:06 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 14, 2024, 10:51:18 AM

It's also why you never buy used cars from Florida. Every car I've looked at that came from Florida, even ones that aren't flooded out, have worse salt rust on the undercarriage than ones that have seen multiple Minnesota winters.

No problem for us with the M-B in our four years here. Clean as a whistle.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 14, 2024, 10:56:12 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 14, 2024, 10:51:18 AM

It's also why you never buy used cars from Florida. Every car I've looked at that came from Florida, even ones that aren't flooded out, have worse salt rust on the undercarriage than ones that have seen multiple Minnesota winters.

Does Minnesota use a lot of road salt or is it too cold?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 14, 2024, 11:10:22 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 13, 2024, 08:54:26 PM

 Really remarkable to see actual news being reported with almost no editorializing.  It  CAN be done.

I don't even mind when it's being done- but just be upfront and honest about it. none of these jokers on cable news are, and always try to pretend like they aren't doing it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 14, 2024, 11:12:24 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 14, 2024, 10:51:18 AM

It's also why you never buy used cars from Florida. Every car I've looked at that came from Florida, even ones that aren't flooded out, have worse salt rust on the undercarriage than ones that have seen multiple Minnesota winters.

yeah, lived here 20 years, never had this problem once. ever. 

would NEVER buy a car from the midwest. the roads are complete and utter dogshit up there and the pot holes, salt, snow, ice, and sledge freaking RUIN cars up there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 14, 2024, 11:12:44 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on March 14, 2024, 10:56:12 AM

Does Minnesota use a lot of road salt or is it too cold?

Illinois used a ton and my car was in Illinois for 4 years before moving here. Still no rust at all, anywhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 14, 2024, 11:40:46 AM

it's not too cold for the new "salt" they have these days

can be well under zero and the stuff still works

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 14, 2024, 12:18:15 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on March 14, 2024, 10:02:44 AM

Happy PI day everyone!

(https://i.imgur.com/wgAnn93.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on March 14, 2024, 12:24:23 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 14, 2024, 10:55:06 AM

Funny story about that... My first job out here I worked with a girl who was also from Illinois. She apparently took her car in for some sort of service and the mechanic started freaking out once he got it up on the lift due to all the undercarriage rust from the salted roads in the winters. Saying everything needed to be replaced, etc...

A more experienced mechanic came over, asked her where the car was from, and said "don't worry, you're fine."

Oddly out here I'd say I'm well under 10 miles from the coast as the crow flies, but we don't have any problems with rust from being where we are.

I think it depends on which way the breeze tends to blow. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on March 14, 2024, 12:26:13 PM

MDot21 shot game 

-says dog shit, take a shot

-italicizes a word, take a shot

-bold, take a shot

-italicizes and bold , take a double shot 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 14, 2024, 12:29:17 PM

Quote from: Gigem on March 14, 2024, 12:26:13 PM

MDot21 shot game

-says dog shit, take a shot

-italicizes a word, take a shot

-bold, take a shot

-italicizes and bold , take a double shot

just did this game, now I'm wasted

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 14, 2024, 12:31:10 PM

for older folks like me

MDot21 beer game
-says dog shit, drink a beer
-italicizes a word, drink a beer
-bold, drink a beer
-italicizes and bold , drink two beers

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 14, 2024, 01:08:54 PM

Gonna look into this one. Not cheap, but if it works...

Weber Genesis Griddle 300 Series | Griddle Inserts for Gas Grill (https://www.weber.com/US/en/griddle/full-size-griddle-inserts/genesis-full-size-griddle-–-300-series/6788.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 14, 2024, 01:30:32 PM

oh, it'll work

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 14, 2024, 04:15:25 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 14, 2024, 01:08:54 PM

Gonna look into this one. Not cheap, but if it works...

Weber Genesis Griddle 300 Series | Griddle Inserts for Gas Grill (https://www.weber.com/US/en/griddle/full-size-griddle-inserts/genesis-full-size-griddle-–-300-series/6788.html)

So you're saying the answer to your Weber question, was with Weber all along...? :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 14, 2024, 05:42:44 PM

dude is pretty god damn amazing....is there anything he can't do...other than build a luxury priced EV with a luxury interior that is?

SpaceX successfully launched the its giant Starship and Super Heavy rocket early Thursday. Largest rocket ever built and successfully launched in history, it has more than twice the thrust of the Saturn V rockets that brought NASA to the moon and it's taller than the Statue of Liberty.


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/elon-musks-spacex-successfully-launches-third-starship-flight-test-5f3a9ba5

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 14, 2024, 08:43:11 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 10, 2024, 03:50:31 PM

He did take his time - he extended the timeline that Trump agreed on to make it as orderly as it was. I don't think there was any practical way to withdraw from a war that was ongoing in an "orderly" fashion, so a lot of the criticisms of Biden on that I think are hogwash.

So using his words as he said one thing and didn't honor them wouldn't attest to that fact when it's been filmed? So is he a liar or does he have dementia? BTW if you can get your hands on one of these do so. Second IPA that i've actually admired
(https://i.imgur.com/dyGzwXx.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 14, 2024, 08:50:28 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2024, 06:55:40 PM

Try to immigrate to New Zealand. Get back to me on how that goes for you.

Absolutely accurate - but if the CCP decides to curb stomp the Kiwis I'm guessing the constraints will be lifted

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 14, 2024, 09:05:42 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 14, 2024, 12:29:17 PM

just did this game, now I'm wasted

Thought you didn't  drink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 15, 2024, 08:06:25 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 14, 2024, 04:15:25 PM

So you're saying the answer to your Weber question, was with Weber all along...? :)

The site says it works with 2014-present Genesis models and 2024 Summit models.

My Summit is a 2021. I have to check with Weber.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 15, 2024, 01:58:59 PM

Hoe does this happen?

Seems like it is more and more common in recent years.

Fire Engulfs American Chicken Farm, Containment Efforts Expected To Last Days (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fire-engulfs-american-chicken-farm-containment-efforts-expected-to-last-days/ss-BB1jWJ8J?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=781214743ae348039d057d177b6764ac&ei=28)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2024, 07:37:58 AM

Some chatter about EU NATO countries sending troops into Ukraine. 

This is not an attack on NATO - it's an attack by NATO.

If Russia were to respond, would that trigger Article 5?

I would say no. These few NATO countries would be the aggressors. It has nothing to do with the rest of the NATO countries, including ours.

Thoughts?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2024, 10:13:11 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2024, 07:37:58 AM

Thoughts?

perhaps NATO should send some troops to Gaza

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2024, 10:17:56 AM

FACT OF THE DAY:

Half of the names of U.S. states are derived from Amerindian words, such as Arizona, Connecticut, Kentucky, and Missouri.

__________________________________

hadn't heard the term before
I suppose language is evolving

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 16, 2024, 02:50:45 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 16, 2024, 10:17:56 AM

FACT OF THE DAY:

Half of the names of U.S. states are derived from Amerindian words, such as Arizona, Connecticut, Kentucky, and Missouri.

__________________________________

hadn't heard the term before
I suppose language is evolving

so I guess Native american is no more

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 16, 2024, 07:50:32 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 16, 2024, 07:37:58 AM

Some chatter about EU NATO countries sending troops into Ukraine.

This is not an attack on NATO - it's an attack by NATO.

If Russia were to respond, would that trigger Article 5?

I would say no. These few NATO countries would be the aggressors. It has nothing to do with the rest of the NATO countries, including ours.

Thoughts?

you're correct, it would not trigger an article 5 situation. however, not sure that matters. if idiot leaders like that short smelly little weirdo macron who married his grandma send troops into ukraine- nice knowing y'all...good chance ww3 gets kicked off shortly after that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 16, 2024, 07:55:41 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 16, 2024, 10:13:11 AM

perhaps NATO should send some troops to Gaza

yeah no shit, would be nice if they can actually be a peace keeping force and stop the slaughter there......would also be cool if the US would just stop handing out free $$$$/loan guarantees to Israel and stop arming Israel to the teeth and providing cover for them at the UN by vetoing down every god damn UN resolution ever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 17, 2024, 01:08:41 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 16, 2024, 10:13:11 AM

perhaps NATO should send some troops to Gaza

No thanks.

I'm cool with humanitarian drops, though.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 18, 2024, 08:25:54 AM

The world produces an average of 430 million metric tons of plastic each year. The United States alone produces tens of millions of tons of plastic waste annually. Yet on average, only about 5 to 6 percent of plastic in the U.S. is recycled. NPR correspondent Michael Copley joins Ali Rogin to discuss a new report on the plastic industry’s tactics to push recycling and avoid regulation.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/the-plastic-industry-knowingly-pushed-recycling-myth-for-decades-new-report-finds (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/the-plastic-industry-knowingly-pushed-recycling-myth-for-decades-new-report-finds)

A new report by the Center for Climate Integrity and environmentalist group says newly uncovered statements from oil and plastics executives underscore the industry's decades long secret skepticism about the viability and efficacy of recycling.

The authors of the report reviewed old investigations and new documents, including previously unknown assertions from industry executives. In 1994, one Exxon chemical executive put the industry support for plastics recycling in blunt terms, saying, quote, we are committed to the activities, but not committed to the results.

Another representative from DuPont noted in 1992, that recycling goals were set, knowing full well quote, they were unlikely to meet them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 19, 2024, 01:12:16 PM

Slow going around here.

I guess @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870)  is the straw that stirs the drink.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 19, 2024, 01:16:48 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 19, 2024, 01:12:16 PM

Slow going around here.

I guess @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870)  is the straw that stirs the drink.

All you B1G folk seem to want to talk about is boring-ass basketball.  Blech.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 19, 2024, 01:29:12 PM

Well, after basketball it's back to Covid, government POLICY, conference realignment, and more cooking and hotties.

:57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 19, 2024, 01:30:26 PM

Cool let's talk about cooking and hotties!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 19, 2024, 01:36:00 PM

I'm just coming off a bout with Norovirus. Sunday was particularly bad. 

To make matters worse, we were at a friend's house, and it came on FAST. 

Pretty embarrassing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 19, 2024, 01:38:22 PM

Ok, no food discussions today with Badge then...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 19, 2024, 01:53:50 PM

Food is staying down now. Even had some spicy salsa with lunch.

HABANERO – Papalote Salsa (https://papalotesalsa.com/products/habanero)

(https://i.imgur.com/2p9rgUF.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 19, 2024, 01:56:59 PM

Local BBQ joint is doing 1/2 price ribs on Thursday nights.  They also have local pints for only $4.  Last week my i s c & a aggie wife and I got out of there splitting a rack of ribs, with two pints of sides, and two beers, for under $35.  And we had enough ribs and sides for lunch the next day.

In a world where I'm regularly spending almost $40 for BBQ lunch just for myself, that's a heck of a deal.  Ribs are excellent, too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 19, 2024, 02:00:45 PM

On the flipside, due to last year's super long drought and some untimely freezes since then, this year's crawfish crop is going to be the worst in years, maybe decades. They're smaller and way more expensive than usual. 

My wife was dying for some over the weekend so we went to one of our usual restuarants and they were $19/lb cooked.  This is a little early in the season, but in a typical year by April, that same restaurant will be down to $8/lb cooked.

Crazy times.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 19, 2024, 02:06:25 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 19, 2024, 01:56:59 PM

Local BBQ joint is doing 1/2 price ribs on Thursday nights.  They also have local pints for only $4.  Last week my i s c & a aggie wife and I got out of there splitting a rack of ribs, with two pints of sides, and two beers, for under $35.  And we had enough ribs and sides for lunch the next day.

In a world where I'm regularly spending almost $40 for BBQ lunch just for myself, that's a heck of a deal.  Ribs are excellent, too.

I’m not the biggest ribs guy (compared to other BBQ), but a deal with leftovers is always a good idea. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 19, 2024, 02:06:52 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 19, 2024, 01:56:59 PM

Local BBQ joint is doing 1/2 price ribs on Thursday nights.  They also have local pints for only $4.  Last week my i s c & a aggie wife and I got out of there splitting a rack of ribs, with two pints of sides, and two beers, for under $35.  And we had enough ribs and sides for lunch the next day.

In a world where I'm regularly spending almost $40 for BBQ lunch just for myself, that's a heck of a deal.  Ribs are excellent, too.

THAT is a fantastic deal. What's it called? I will tell my nephew about it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 19, 2024, 02:13:09 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 19, 2024, 02:06:52 PM

THAT is a fantastic deal. What's it called? I will tell my nephew about it.

Slab BBQ.  Three locations in Austin.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 19, 2024, 02:22:51 PM

He lives near campus. I'll tell him about it. Thanks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 19, 2024, 02:46:31 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 19, 2024, 02:22:51 PM

He lives near campus. I'll tell him about it. Thanks.

Cool, I didn't know you had kin in Austin.  If he's ever looking for recs or advice on anything else, feel free to send him my way

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 19, 2024, 04:01:39 PM

Will do.

He's from Chandler, AZ but he went to UT. Smart kid. Computer Engineering with a Computer Science minor.

Was working for some big tech firm in SF and he told them he'd quit if he couldn't move and work remote.

They paid for his move. Been in ATX for 5 years now, I think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 19, 2024, 11:09:13 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 19, 2024, 01:56:59 PM

Local BBQ joint is doing 1/2 price ribs on Thursday nights.  They also have local pints for only $4.  Last week my i s c & a aggie wife and I got out of there splitting a rack of ribs, with two pints of sides, and two beers, for under $35.  And we had enough ribs and sides for lunch the next day.

In a world where I'm regularly spending almost $40 for BBQ lunch just for myself, that's a heck of a deal.  Ribs are excellent, too.

I'm on my way
should be there by Thursday night

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 19, 2024, 11:10:40 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 19, 2024, 01:16:48 PM

All you B1G folk seem to want to talk about is boring-ass basketball.  Blech.

you scroll through my posts????

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 20, 2024, 10:40:21 AM

Making the rounds this morning is the new World Happiness Report. The main headline you'll see is that the U.S. dropped from 15th to 23rd.
What's not as clear, except for this WSJ article (paywalled: [color=rgb( var(--theme-link) )]https://www.wsj.com/health/wellness/world-happiness-report-americans-top-20-0f59cf98 (https://www.wsj.com/health/wellness/world-happiness-report-americans-top-20-0f59cf98)[/url]) and this Gallup article ([color=rgb( var(--theme-link) )]https://news.gallup.com/poll/612125/happiest-country-earth.aspx[/color] (https://news.gallup.com/poll/612125/happiest-country-earth.aspx)) is that the drop is largely due to Americans under 30 years old.

[/size][/font][/size][/color]

Quote

"The report, which ranks countries by age group for the first time, shows the U.S. decline is at least partly attributable to Americans under age 30 feeling worse about their lives. The U.S. still ranks in the top 10 countries for those 60 and older, with a score of 7.258 out of 10. But for those under 30, it ranks 62nd, with a score of 6.392."

This is a concerning trend, regardless of the cause.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2024, 10:53:49 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/bFgRYjk.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2024, 11:04:22 AM

It shouldn't be surprising that the under 30 set is unhappy in this (and other) countries.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 20, 2024, 11:10:53 AM

perhaps we could cheer them up with student loan forgiveness

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 20, 2024, 11:15:11 AM

Yup there are all sorts of reasons for them to feel less happy than their older counterparts.

Many of those reasons are legitimate.

Some, not so much.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2024, 11:17:19 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 20, 2024, 11:15:11 AM

Yup there are all sorts of reasons for them to feel less happy than their older counterparts.

Many of those reasons are legitimate.

Some, not so much.

Our system of education is failing us. We all know this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 20, 2024, 11:51:02 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2024, 11:17:19 AM

Our system of education is failing us. We all know this.

To a certain extent, sure.  But some of them just have completely unrealistic expectations, that seem to come from social media sources, and/or their insistence on living within their own echo-chambers.

I have one nephew, he's now 30. He can't bother himself to wake up in the morning to get to a job, so he's usually out of work.  He likes to have long, philosophical discussions about how "creatives" are tremendously under-appreciated in society, there's no place for them to earn a living.  He's always been on the artsy side, was in theater and choir in high school, but he doesn't currently do anything "creative" so I have no idea what he really means or what his expectations are.  He's not an artist or a writer or an actor or a singer, has never tried to be any of those things.

He waves me off when I point out that our current society has all kinds of paying outlets for "creatives."  Graphic design, for example, is absolutely booming compared to where it was 20 or even 10 years ago.  And then of course there are the standard jobs for artsy folks, those I mentioned above, like actors/writers/artists. 

But what I really think he honestly believes, is that he should be compensated for thinking.  For philosophizing.  That society should place such high value on his thoughts that he is paid for thinking them and talking about them.

But even THEN, there ARE potential outlets where he might be traded something of value-- cash, lodging, food, whatever-- if he actually bothered to try and spread his "creative visions" through some consumable medium. It's possible, if he wrote a book about his ideas, that it might be published. It's possible, that if he started a Youtube channel or a podcast about his ideas, that he might get monetized.  There are now more opportunities than EVER BEFORE IN HISTORY, for people to be compensated for non-traditional work.  More opportunities than ever before, for the widespread distribution and potential monetization of "content" that is of value only to a select few, because it's easier to reach people now, than ever before.

And yet, he does none of those things.  He seems to think that just his existence and enthusiasm for talking about his philosophies, should be enough for society to be willing to support him.

I know he's unhappy with our current society, as are his many similar friends I've encountered.  I have no doubt they're among the ones expressing their unhappiness with current American society.

And it's all complete bullshit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 20, 2024, 11:58:54 AM

this isn't new

20 year olds in the 60s didn't like society much

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 20, 2024, 12:00:33 PM

And don't get me wrong, I absolutely love my nephew and love talking with him.  He's bright and genuine in his thoughts.

He's just completely out of touch with reality when it comes to... well... Life.

He's a sometimes home-brewer so one time when he was out of work, I hooked him up with my friend who owns the very successful Live Oak Brewery.  I got him a 1:1 sit-down, which isn't all that easy to do.  After the sit-down, I asked him how it went, and he said he didn't really want to start at the bottom of the ladder.  He has absolutely zero experience in an actual brewery, but felt like starting out with cleaning tanks and lines and transporting materials, was beneath him.  Nevermind that the current head brewer who's now doing quite well for himself, started out exactly that way.

Maybe he's just lazy, I don't know, but blaming society for your own laziness is pretty crappy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 20, 2024, 12:04:56 PM

I think it's bullshit. 

Unfortunately this clip isn't on YouTube, but Bill Maher had as his first guest a few weeks back a lady by the name of Dr Jean Twenge who wrote a book called Generations (https://www.amazon.com/Generations-Differences-Millennials-Silents-Americas-ebook/dp/B0B3Y9RSFP/). One of the points she made during the interview is that millennials, for all the doom and gloom, are on track to have the highest inflation-adjusted salaries in US history. 

I realize Gen Z is that "under 30" crowd, not millennials, but I think if they're unhappy it's not because of a lack of opportunity. There's more opportunity than there has ever been. Hell, you can have a job title of "influencer" and make more money than I do. Even if you're a dog! (https://nypost.com/2023/05/20/meet-the-golden-retriever-raking-in-1-million-a-year/)

Why are they unhappy? Social media, and media, telling them about how horrible everything is even when the world around them is more full of amazement and opportunity than ever before. 

They should be the happiest generation in history, quite frankly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2024, 12:10:01 PM

I think they are being taught to not be happy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 20, 2024, 01:22:29 PM

Well the MSM and many forms of social media certainly blast them with doom and gloom 24/7.  They blast us all, of course, but young people lack the experience and wisdom to be able to put it all in perspective.

Beyond that, I think so many youtube videos and ticktocks show young people with extraordinary wealth at a very early age, and then other young people try to compare themselves, which can lead to feelings of unhappiness and discontent.  In my youth I was really only exposed to local folks who had more than I did, but with the internet it can be ubiquitous.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2024, 01:26:29 PM

To get back to this (work distracted me).

Much has to do with the school districts. There are so many, and so many differences.

My brother's kids had/have a largely positive experience in high school. The teaching of history and social studies is balanced, but largely based on the positive things Western societies have accomplished around the world. They also include the negatives - and they should.

(My experience in HS was all about the positives, but that's a long time ago.)

Regardless, my brother's kids are generally happy and have a positive outlook about our country and values.

To the contrary, my best friend's son had a more CRT-based HS curriculum. He was taught about the bad, and not much of the good at all. 

He is a bit like UTee's nephew. His outlook is terrible against our society, and he is also down on himself. He struggles with his identity. He struggles socially. Struggles to hold a job. He feels like he is owed.

His father says a lot of this is due to his HS education (I think he should own up too, but he was working 60+ hours/week in his ambition to be at the top. A lot of good that has done for his kid, right?).

Anecdotal of course, but I felt it important to bring up these two very different scenarios.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 20, 2024, 02:10:53 PM

I don't know that much about the current HS landscape... Obviously south Orange County isn't representative of a lot of the rest of CA schools or attitudes. I certainly don't get the sense that my kids are being "taught to be unhappy". 

However it does remind me that I need to be more proactive about making sure they understand how manipulative things like social media and conventional media can be, and that they need to build a suit of emotional armor in this modern world to handle it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2024, 02:12:25 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 20, 2024, 02:10:53 PM

I don't know that much about the current HS landscape... Obviously south Orange County isn't representative of a lot of the rest of CA schools or attitudes. I certainly don't get the sense that my kids are being "taught to be unhappy".

However it does remind me that I need to be more proactive about making sure they understand how manipulative things like social media and conventional media can be, and that they need to build a suit of emotional armor in this modern world to handle it.

We did not have that to contend with. Makes it all that much harder to be a parent these days.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 20, 2024, 02:17:19 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 20, 2024, 02:10:53 PM

I don't know that much about the current HS landscape... Obviously south Orange County isn't representative of a lot of the rest of CA schools or attitudes. I certainly don't get the sense that my kids are being "taught to be unhappy".

However it does remind me that I need to be more proactive about making sure they understand how manipulative things like social media and conventional media can be, and that they need to build a suit of emotional armor in this modern world to handle it.

We talk about this with our kids all the time.

The irony is that, while we currently have more access to more information and more news than ever before, it's easy to look at only the things you're being fed by the algorithms, or only the things you've chosen to surround yourself with in your own echo chambers, and get a VERY distorted view of the world around you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 20, 2024, 02:24:30 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 20, 2024, 02:17:19 PM

We talk about this with our kids all the time.

The irony is that, while we currently have more access to more information and more news than ever before, it's easy to look at only the things you're being fed by the algorithms, or only the things you've chosen to surround yourself with in your own echo chambers, and get a VERY distorted view of the world around you.

Yeah, I've highlighted to them many times the dangers of confirmation bias, and how you need to think about things from multiple sides and you can't do that if you surround yourself with an echo chamber of info...

But I haven't gotten as much into the emotional side of it. The good news is that my oldest (16) doesn't do any social media, or want to, so he's at least on a good track there. My youngest (11) doesn't have a phone, so she's not doing any of that stuff, but I'm sure it's worse for girls on many fronts including that one when they get up to high school age...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 20, 2024, 03:12:44 PM

Participation trophies don't make you happy 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 20, 2024, 03:17:33 PM

Yeah my kids have no personal social media presence, their main interaction is doing snapchat with their closest group of friends.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 20, 2024, 04:43:43 PM

I'll go ahead and post this, at the risk of setting off yet another anger-filled rant of spewed underlines, italics, and capitalizations from MDot...

(https://i.imgur.com/5gcfynT.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2024, 04:48:47 PM

Florida is starting to get really expensive to live in. Unless you are coming from the North with cash, it's really hard. The average home price in my general area has increased more than 40% in 4 years. Throw in higher interest rates, and yeah, it's a no-go for a lot of people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 20, 2024, 04:55:26 PM

Similar story here. I bought this house in 2012 for $400,000.  At the peak of the market 12-18 months ago, my neighbors with identical houses were selling for $1.2M.  Mine would still go for around $1M today.

 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 20, 2024, 05:27:32 PM

Just another couple hundred thou more leaving here, and maybe it'll get affordable again!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 20, 2024, 06:14:52 PM

I think it'd take a couple mil to really make a dent.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 20, 2024, 07:17:13 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 20, 2024, 06:14:52 PM

I think it'd take a couple mil to really make a dent.

Well I was thinking Orange County specifically since it's called out on the graphic... We've got like 3.1M here... A couple hundred thou just in this county would make a dent.

Statewide, yes... A couple mil. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 20, 2024, 11:57:05 PM

Seoul is a really big city.  May take tour tomorrow to the DMZ. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2024, 06:31:56 AM

New film calling White people 'most dangerous animal' on planet bombs at box office | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/media/new-film-calling-white-people-most-dangerous-animal-planet-bombs-box-office)

Does anyone think this would fly if the script was flipped, calling black people the most dangerous animals?

Does anyone think a movie like this helps the current divisions in our society?

Why was this allowed to be made? Who thought it was a good idea to fund it?

It's disgusting at best. Unreal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2024, 06:42:48 AM

I don't get this. They could take the Baltic States in 48 hours, but can't take Ukraine in 48 months?

UBN: Russia could take the Baltic states in 48 hours (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ubn-russia-could-take-the-baltic-states-in-48-hours/ar-BB1kgE8l?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=40c0a36691b046e4a7da242db40813fc&ei=23)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 21, 2024, 07:06:52 AM

"The American Society of Magical Negroes (https://www.foxnews.com/media/american-society-magical-negroes-trailer-sparks-anger-saying-white-people-most-dangerous-animal)"
took the 9th spot at the box office last weekend, grossing $1,304,270 while playing in 1,147 locations around the U.S.
The film centers around a young man who is recruited to be part of a "society" where Black people use their magical powers to make White people comfortable, so that they don't hurt Black people.

From that link

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on March 21, 2024, 07:16:51 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2024, 06:42:48 AM

I don't get this. They could take the Baltic States in 48 hours, but can't take Ukraine in 48 months?

UBN: Russia could take the Baltic states in 48 hours (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ubn-russia-could-take-the-baltic-states-in-48-hours/ar-BB1kgE8l?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=40c0a36691b046e4a7da242db40813fc&ei=23)

Russian leadership already believes they are at war with the West and are preparing and acting accordingly.   I doubt Russia could re-take the Baltic States at this time.  Maybe in a few years if NATO doesn't get serious about defending itself.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 21, 2024, 07:21:12 AM

Ya as long as get seriuos doesn't mean "we" foot the freight

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 21, 2024, 09:25:04 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2024, 06:31:56 AM

New film calling White people 'most dangerous animal' on planet bombs at box office | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/media/new-film-calling-white-people-most-dangerous-animal-planet-bombs-box-office)

Does anyone think this would fly if the script was flipped, calling black people the most dangerous animals?

Does anyone think a movie like this helps the current divisions in our society?

Why was this allowed to be made? Who thought it was a good idea to fund it?

It's disgusting at best. Unreal.

Hey honky, why don't you just check your white privilege at the door and get with the times?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2024, 10:44:30 AM

Yeah, OK. I'm on it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 21, 2024, 04:10:21 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 21, 2024, 07:21:12 AM

Ya as long as get seriuos doesn't mean "we" foot the freight

Which makes it even more important for the Ukrainians to get the armaments they need from the US stockpile to clean the Russians out, sooner than later. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 21, 2024, 04:10:39 PM

For the first time since late last year, prices at the pump are now higher on a year-over-year basis. It's a trend that industry experts expect to continue in the coming weeks and months, especially if Russian oil facilities continue to get hit by drone attacks.

This is an unwanted development for consumers heading into the spring. It's also a problem for White House and Federal Reserve officials hoping to declare victory over inflation.

The recent jump in gas prices is already causing headaches on the inflation front. Gas was the main culprit behind last week's hotter-than-expected consumer price index and a disappointing wholesale inflation report.


All of this is casting doubt on when the Fed will be able to start cutting interest rates. Hopes for a March rate cut have faded, and investors are now betting on June or July.

"Gas prices are going to keep going up," said Andy Lipow, president of Lipow Oil Associates. "This is going to cost the consumer more money. And that of course is not good for the administration."

The national average price for regular gas climbed to $3.47 a gallon on Monday, according to AAA. That's up from $3.45 a year ago and the highest price since Halloween.


The last time gas prices were up on a year-over-year basis was late December 2023, according to AAA.

The highest recorded price for unleaded gas was in June of 2022, when a gallon averaged $5.02, according to AAA.

The national average has jumped by seven cents in the past week and 19 cents over the past month. Gas prices are up by 40 cents since mid-January.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2024, 04:44:12 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 21, 2024, 04:10:21 PM

Which makes it even more important for the Ukrainians to get the armaments they need from the US stockpile to clean the Russians out, sooner than later.

We might need that stockpile.

If France really does go into Ukraine with troops, all hell will break loose.

Then China goes after Taiwan and we have two fronts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 21, 2024, 04:45:07 PM

we can make more

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 21, 2024, 04:47:14 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 21, 2024, 04:45:07 PM

we can make more

If China tries to take Taiwan, and Taiwan sabotages TSMC so that China can't get their hands on it, we can't make shit. 

Global economic collapse if TSMC dies. They're trying to diversify to other regions, but in the semiconductor game those aren't facilities that you stand up in 6 months. It's measured in years. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 21, 2024, 04:50:43 PM

some armaments don't require semiconductors

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 21, 2024, 04:52:41 PM

The industry never should have allowed consolidation into one region like that.   Even if there were no geopolitical issues, from a purely geographic standpoint, it's an example of terrible risk mitigation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2024, 04:56:26 PM

This isn't 1945. We can't do two fronts right now. Russia ain't gonna help out this time either. They are out to take us down.

Hell, we cannot even manage a pullout from a third-world country to get out of a war that should have never happened in the first place.

Our military is not competent. Nobody wants to join it anymore. Our allies are not strong.

If Russia goes all out on NATO and China goes all out on Taiwan and the Philippines, we are f*cked.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 21, 2024, 04:58:38 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2024, 04:44:12 PM

We might need that stockpile.

If France really does go into Ukraine with troops, all hell will break loose.

Then China goes after Taiwan and we have two fronts.

The stockpiles we've been sending to Ukraine are mostly old stuff that was set to be decommissioned anyway.  And that was going to cost the US taxpayers billions to dismantle and dispose of them safely.  Instead of that, those bombs are being sent overseas to do exactly what they were designed to do.  Kill Russians.

Meanwhile, we've kept the good stuff at home.

And finally, China doesn't have the capability for physical occupation of Taiwan, it'd be an absolute bloodbath and not even China has enough men to throw at it.  All they could do is bomb the island, but then they'd completely screw their own manufacturing supply chains if they did so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 21, 2024, 05:02:36 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2024, 04:56:26 PM

This isn't 1945. We can't do two fronts right now. Russia ain't gonna help out this time either. They are out to take us down.

Hell, we cannot even manage a pullout from a third-world country to get out of a war that should have never happened in the first place.

Our military is not competent. Nobody wants to join it anymore. Our allies are not strong.

If Russia goes all out on NATO and China goes all out on Taiwan and the Philippines, we are f*cked.

Get a hold of yourself, man.  Ukraine has stalemated Russia's "Second Army of the World" for 2 years using NATO's 3-generations-old technology strung together with clothes pins and bailing wire.  By itself Poland could take what little is left of the Russian army, and you better believe they're itching to do so.

And China won't make a move on Taiwan because they can't.  They can't get their forces across the ocean to occupy it, they'd be sitting ducks.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 21, 2024, 05:06:07 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 21, 2024, 04:52:41 PM

The industry never should have allowed consolidation into one region like that.  Even if there were no geopolitical issues, from a purely geographic standpoint, it's an example of terrible risk mitigation.

Yep. But you know as well as I do that it was never anyone's intent. Truth is that they were the best. If you're a fabless semi company and you need a fab, who do you go with? To update the old saw (https://www.origina.com/blog/nobody-ever-got-fired-for-buying-ibm), "Nobody ever got fired for buying TSMC."

I think the world started to wise up to the risk a while back, which is why Samsung got into the foundry business and Intel is trying. The world is trying to diversify...

...which incidentally could spur China to act sooner rather than later because of how much it would damage the West economically. It'll screw themselves too, but they might believe that post-reset their domestic capability can more effectively compete.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 21, 2024, 05:10:27 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 21, 2024, 05:06:07 PM

Yep. But you know as well as I do that it was never anyone's intent. Truth is that they were the best. If you're a fabless semi company and you need a fab, who do you go with? To update the old saw (https://www.origina.com/blog/nobody-ever-got-fired-for-buying-ibm), "Nobody ever got fired for buying TSMC."

I think the world started to wise up to the risk a while back, which is why Samsung got into the foundry business and Intel is trying. The world is trying to diversify...

...which incidentally could spur China to act sooner rather than later because of how much it would damage the West economically. It'll screw themselves too, but they might believe that post-reset their domestic capability can more effectively compete.

I might have agreed with this a couple or three years ago, but China's got about 4 different domestic economic crises crashing in on it at the same time.  If they take out TSMC, they're effectively finished as a world technology manufacturer.  Everyone will rebuild outside of any footprint that could fall under Chinese influence, and China's only options for export will be the other pariah states of the world like Russia, Iran, and North Korea.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 21, 2024, 05:23:35 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 21, 2024, 05:10:27 PM

I might have agreed with this a couple or three years ago, but China's got about 4 different domestic economic crises crashing in on it at the same time.  If they take out TSMC, they're effectively finished as a world technology manufacturer.  Everyone will rebuild outside of any footprint that could fall under Chinese influence, and China's only options for export will be the other pariah states of the world like Russia, Iran, and North Korea. 

Probably agree with this... The question is whether this makes them desperate enough to do something, though? 

I don't know what sort of propaganda is thrown around inside China. My current exposure to the entirety of China is people I work with, and some work trips I made over there in the mid-2010s. 

Standard playbook of any authoritarian state is to define (or invent) an enemy to blame your problems on, so your people don't blame them on you. Are they / have they been ramping that up re: the west over the last decade? Are their people insulated enough from opposing messages to buy it? 

I'm honestly and sincerely asking--I don't really know the situation on the ground over there...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 21, 2024, 05:31:49 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 21, 2024, 05:23:35 PM

Probably agree with this... The question is whether this makes them desperate enough to do something, though?

I don't know what sort of propaganda is thrown around inside China. My current exposure to the entirety of China is people I work with, and some work trips I made over there in the mid-2010s.

Standard playbook of any authoritarian state is to define (or invent) an enemy to blame your problems on, so your people don't blame them on you. Are they / have they been ramping that up re: the west over the last decade? Are their people insulated enough from opposing messages to buy it?

I'm honestly and sincerely asking--I don't really know the situation on the ground over there...

I don't know the exact state either, I interact with quite a few of our Chinese employees but there's zero political talk.

I expect the CCP can probably convince them of anything they like.

But I also don't think the CCP wants to put itself in permanent exile.  They'll rattle sabers but ultimately they need the rest of the world, they can't exist in isolation. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 21, 2024, 06:09:53 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 20, 2024, 04:43:43 PM

I'll go ahead and post this, at the risk of setting off yet another anger-filled rant of spewed underlines, italics, and capitalizations from MDot...

(https://i.imgur.com/5gcfynT.png)

why does Miami feel like there are 430,000 more though? go back to New York, Chicago, New Jersey, wherever the fk you fckers came from, please.

or just leave here and move to Texas :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 21, 2024, 06:15:32 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 21, 2024, 06:09:53 PM

why does Miami feel like there are 430,000 more though? go back to New York, Chicago, New Jersey, wherever the fk you fckers came from, please.

Like, say... Michigan? :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 21, 2024, 06:25:02 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 20, 2024, 04:48:47 PM

Florida is starting to get really expensive to live in. Unless you are coming from the North with cash, it's really hard. The average home price in my general area has increased more than 40% in 4 years. Throw in higher interest rates, and yeah, it's a no-go for a lot of people.

south florida was always expensive, now it's just insane. this place is becoming like Southern California/Bay area in terms of home prices. Palm Beach island was always nutty expensive- so you have to separate that little enclave out- now it's just pretty much bananas everywhere in terms of pricing and you're seeing areas like Delray Beach, Fort Lauderdale, Boca Raton, Miami, Miami Beach, Coral Gables having home sales in those areas for $30+ million, $40+ million, $50+ million, $60+ million, $70+ million- which was basically only ever happening in Palm Beach island before. Most you'd see houses sell for on those previously mentioned areas might've been $20 million. Now there are houses going for that all day and way more. The amount of wealth that has poured into the area in the last 5 years is straight up retarded- and there was already a sh*t ton of it before COVID.

Shit box houses in Pompano Beach that used to go for like $250k are now $500k. You can't get a new 2,400 sq ft under a/c home from either a regional or national production builder (aka the shittiest builders there are) anywhere that isn't 15 miles west that builds cookie cutter shitbox same houses for under $1 million now. And that's with no options basic cookie cutter. And the houses 15 miles west might start at $700k instead of $1 million. And some of the neighborhoods 15 miles out west are actually even more than $1 mil off the but- there are some like Boca Bridges where it's nearly $3 million off rip for a giant turd box cookie cutter shitbox house from a big production builder. And people pay for it because of it's a huge gated community with landscaping, entrance, amenities, club houses, etc., but the fking neighborhood is 15 miles west of 95 the traffic is more of a nightmare going west than it is south or east- and the houses are giant pieces of shit.

feel like people aren't moving down this way in FL anymore unless they already have tons of money.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 21, 2024, 06:29:39 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 21, 2024, 06:15:32 PM

Like, say... Michigan? :57:

I'm 20+ years deep so I don't count. Lol.

hardly any people from Michigan down this way period and almost zero last 5 years post-covid. it's mainly all north easterners both before covid and post covid, New Yawkuz, Jersey, Philly, Boston, Rhode Island, Connecticut, very tiny bit of Illinois/Chicago, and even tinier bit of Detroit/MI. 

feel like the vast majority of midwesterners go to the other coast. don't know why that is. maybe I-75? which makes sense, most of the northeasterns come down this way and what's up that way....I-95.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 21, 2024, 06:31:34 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 21, 2024, 06:29:39 PM

I'm 20+ years deep so I don't count. Lol.

Suuuuure....

Seems *everyone* says that the ones after them count, but they don't :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 21, 2024, 06:37:07 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 21, 2024, 07:21:12 AM

Ya as long as get seriuos doesn't mean "we" foot the freight

of course we will continue to foot the freight of the bill when it comes to NATO as we always have, because: our nation is lead by a bunch of corrupted individuals/dumbasses.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 21, 2024, 06:57:41 PM

I wish I lived in those places where people only kind of want to live

Columbus fastest growing city in the country (https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-news/columbus/study-names-columbus-as-the-fastest-growing-city-in-the-u-s/#:~:text=COLUMBUS%2C Ohio (WCMH) –,we're excited about growth.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 21, 2024, 07:03:24 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 21, 2024, 06:57:41 PM

I wish I lived in those places where people only kind of want to live

Columbus fastest growing city in the country (https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-news/columbus/study-names-columbus-as-the-fastest-growing-city-in-the-u-s/#:~:text=COLUMBUS%2C Ohio (WCMH) –,we're excited about growth.)

That's just because of Urban Meyer's offspring

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 21, 2024, 07:43:42 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2024, 06:42:48 AM

I don't get this. They could take the Baltic States in 48 hours, but can't take Ukraine in 48 months?

UBN: Russia could take the Baltic states in 48 hours (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ubn-russia-could-take-the-baltic-states-in-48-hours/ar-BB1kgE8l?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=40c0a36691b046e4a7da242db40813fc&ei=23)

don't get what? there's nothing to get. it's nothing but fear mongering/war propaganda to nudge US/EU populations into thinking "must fight russia!" from some nothing media outlet that no one has ever heard of called UBN and some jerkoff named Mark McNamee that no one has ever heard of.

Russia can't take the Baltic states in 48 hours, everyone with half a brain knows this. Not to mention all the Baltic states are members of NATO, and if Russia attacked those states could invoke article 5 and then WWIII is likely upon us, and Russia doesn't want to fight the US or NATO. They can't. And if they did, they'd probably resort to using nukes and then well sayonara to all us, nice knowing you world.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 21, 2024, 07:54:46 PM

click bait

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 21, 2024, 08:11:46 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 21, 2024, 04:10:21 PM

Which makes it even more important for the Ukrainians to get the armaments they need from the US stockpile to clean the Russians out, sooner than later.

Lolwut. Yeah, no. US stockpile? What US stockpile? We don't have sh*t in the way of artillery stockpiles. And we can't manufacture them fast enough here because we don't manufacture jacksh*t here anymore thanks to 40+ years of hollowing out our industrial base and sending it over seas. Russia? Well they only manufacture 3x's the amount of artillery shells per month than the US/EU can....combined.

What is most important for Ukrainians is that their crooked ass leaders stop being lapdogs of a US foreign policy establishment (swamp creature goons like Victoria Nuland) that doesn't give a single fcking sh*t about Ukraine or how many Ukrainians that die- and go to the negotiating table while they still can and negotiate a peace and end to the war. Otherwise they'll just run out of fighting age men sooner rather than later- Russia will take another 20% chunk of territory and annex it- and the country will become a failed rump state that has been destroyed beyond recognition, lost entire generations of men, and will have about 40% less territory than they had before the start of this horrific war.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 21, 2024, 08:20:28 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 21, 2024, 04:44:12 PM

We might need that stockpile.

If France really does go into Ukraine with troops, all hell will break loose.

Then China goes after Taiwan and we have two fronts.

France ain't doing shit. It's extremely reckless and stupid for that puny little hornball grandma loving freakazoid loser leader to run his mouth and write checks his ass most certainly can't cash, and it just throws gasoline onto a flaming fire- but that little bitch ain't doing shiiiiiiiit.

China would have a hell of a time invading Taiwan and taking it. Honestly don't think they can do it. That island is a hard MF to take. And if they tried they'd very likely fail and well Taiwan is something USA will fight over. Taiwan is actually of vital importance to US national security and US world hegemony. Ukraine is not. Ukraine means literally nothing to the US. US gains/loses nothing from Ukraine. Ukraine is being used as cattle for slaughter to weaken Russia via proxy by the US. Taiwan on the other hand = vitally important to US and it's future.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 21, 2024, 08:22:47 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 21, 2024, 04:45:07 PM

we can make more

we actually can't though. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 21, 2024, 08:34:31 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 21, 2024, 04:52:41 PM

The industry never should have allowed consolidation into one region like that.  Even if there were no geopolitical issues, from a purely geographic standpoint, it's an example of terrible risk mitigation.

agree 100%. 

US should codify into law that certain industries that are of vital national importance be based primarily in the US. US should also spend public money to get that jumpstarted ASAP. Whether it be direct low interest guaranteed loans or crazy tax breaks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 21, 2024, 08:56:29 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 20, 2024, 11:51:02 AM

To a certain extent, sure.  But some of them just have completely unrealistic expectations, that seem to come from social media sources, and/or their insistence on living within their own echo-chambers.

I have one nephew, he's now 30. He can't bother himself to wake up in the morning to get to a job, so he's usually out of work.  He likes to have long, philosophical discussions about how "creatives" are tremendously under-appreciated in society, there's no place for them to earn a living.  He's always been on the artsy side, was in theater and choir in high school, but he doesn't currently do anything "creative" so I have no idea what he really means or what his expectations are.  He's not an artist or a writer or an actor or a singer, has never tried to be any of those things.

He waves me off when I point out that our current society has all kinds of paying outlets for "creatives."  Graphic design, for example, is absolutely booming compared to where it was 20 or even 10 years ago.  And then of course there are the standard jobs for artsy folks, those I mentioned above, like actors/writers/artists. 

But what I really think he honestly believes, is that he should be compensated for thinking.  For philosophizing.  That society should place such high value on his thoughts that he is paid for thinking them and talking about them.

But even THEN, there ARE potential outlets where he might be traded something of value-- cash, lodging, food, whatever-- if he actually bothered to try and spread his "creative visions" through some consumable medium. It's possible, if he wrote a book about his ideas, that it might be published. It's possible, that if he started a Youtube channel or a podcast about his ideas, that he might get monetized.  There are now more opportunities than EVER BEFORE IN HISTORY, for people to be compensated for non-traditional work.  More opportunities than ever before, for the widespread distribution and potential monetization of "content" that is of value only to a select few, because it's easier to reach people now, than ever before.

And yet, he does none of those things.  He seems to think that just his existence and enthusiasm for talking about his philosophies, should be enough for society to be willing to support him.

I know he's unhappy with our current society, as are his many similar friends I've encountered.  I have no doubt they're among the ones expressing their unhappiness with current American society.

And it's all complete bullshit.

yeah, no shit. his thing about creatives not being able to make money.....well guess he has never heard of YouTube, Instagram, or TikTok? NFT's? Soundcloud? how many multi-multi millionaires have those outlets for "creatives" created that never would have been able to be made in the past? 

only thing I think he might have a leg to stand on- though I didn't see you mention it so he probably never did- student debt, health insurance, auto insurance, automobiles, housing- you know costs a person needs to um....live- which are all way out of whack and any adjusted for inflation gains in income don't come remotely close to making up the gap in the rise of those costs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 21, 2024, 08:58:41 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 21, 2024, 05:02:36 PM

Get a hold of yourself, man.  Ukraine has stalemated Russia's "Second Army of the World" for 2 years using NATO's 3-generations-old technology strung together with clothes pins and bailing wire.  By itself Poland could take what little is left of the Russian army, and you better believe they're itching to do so.

And China won't make a move on Taiwan because they can't.  They can't get their forces across the ocean to occupy it, they'd be sitting ducks. 

pretty much agree with all this. Russia can't take on Europe by itself, they have had a hell of a time taking just 20% of Ukraine and holding it over the last 2 years.

China probably can't take Taiwan. And if they tried, the US would fight them to protect Taiwan. And they know this. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 21, 2024, 09:03:22 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 21, 2024, 05:31:49 PM

But I also don't think the CCP wants to put itself in permanent exile.  They'll rattle sabers but ultimately they need the rest of the world, they can't exist in isolation.

China might just be done for as a super power sooner rather than later. Their population is aging off rapidly and they don't have the young blood to replace it, they are about to go into population decline over the next couple decades and it's only projected to get worse each decade- I want to say their population is projected to like cut in half in roughly 75 years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on March 22, 2024, 06:48:35 AM

The Financial Times reports that the Biden administration is urging Ukraine to halt strikes on Russia's oil refineries.  I wonder what their motive is?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 22, 2024, 06:55:02 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 21, 2024, 09:03:22 PM

China might just be done for as a super power sooner rather than later. Their population is aging off rapidly and they don't have the young blood to replace it, they are about to go into population decline over the next couple decades and it's only projected to get worse each decade- I want to say their population is projected to like cut in half in roughly 75 years.

Prolly because they are packed in like sardines and kind of polluted.Their peoples party evidently thinks things like the clean air/water acts and sustaining healthy ecosystems are capitalist pigdog concerns & propaganda

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 22, 2024, 07:03:10 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on March 22, 2024, 06:48:35 AM

The Financial Times reports that the Biden administration is urging Ukraine to halt strikes on Russia's oil refineries.  I wonder what their motive is?

Prices at the pump have been trending up and Blisterhead Biden's bent buddies realize their woke energy agenda is circling the drain

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 22, 2024, 07:32:06 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 21, 2024, 05:02:36 PM

Get a hold of yourself, man.  Ukraine has stalemated Russia's "Second Army of the World" for 2 years using NATO's 3-generations-old technology strung together with clothes pins and bailing wire.  By itself Poland could take what little is left of the Russian army, and you better believe they're itching to do so.

And China won't make a move on Taiwan because they can't.  They can't get their forces across the ocean to occupy it, they'd be sitting ducks. 

Putin is Crazy.

He WILL use the nukes before he goes down.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 22, 2024, 07:37:52 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 21, 2024, 07:43:42 PM

don't get what? there's nothing to get. it's nothing but fear mongering/war propaganda to nudge US/EU populations into thinking "must fight russia!" from some nothing media outlet that no one has ever heard of called UBN and some jerkoff named Mark McNamee that no one has ever heard of.

Russia can't take the Baltic states in 48 hours, everyone with half a brain knows this. Not to mention all the Baltic states are members of NATO, and if Russia attacked those states could invoke article 5 and then WWIII is likely upon us, and Russia doesn't want to fight the US or NATO. They can't. And if they did, they'd probably resort to using nukes and then well sayonara to all us, nice knowing you world.

That's my fear. Putin is nuts enough to do it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 22, 2024, 07:44:34 AM

There is one reason, and one reason alone, why we are propping up Ukraine, and everyone with a brain knows it.

They have dirt. Lots and lots of dirt.

Same goes for going easy on China.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 22, 2024, 07:45:41 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 22, 2024, 07:32:06 AM

Putin is Crazy.

He WILL use the nukes before he goes down.

well, I'm glad he rigged the election isn't going down for a while

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 22, 2024, 08:09:27 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 22, 2024, 07:45:41 AM

well, I'm glad he rigged the election isn't going down for a while

I'm talking about Russia going down. He'll release his arsenal while Russia goes down.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on March 22, 2024, 08:14:28 AM

Russia has been evacuating towns on the border with eastern Ukraine.   Said reason is cross border skirmishes but I wonder if Putin is getting ready to put a nuke in eastern Ukraine being as paranoid as I am.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 22, 2024, 08:17:49 AM

Good point.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 22, 2024, 08:27:18 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/TE1H8E1.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 22, 2024, 10:14:09 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on March 22, 2024, 08:14:28 AM

Russia has been evacuating towns on the border with eastern Ukraine.  Said reason is cross border skirmishes but I wonder if Putin is getting ready to put a nuke in eastern Ukraine being as paranoid as I am.

I don't believe dickface putin cares enough about his own people to bother with it.  I don't believe he thinks about them, at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 22, 2024, 10:15:37 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 22, 2024, 10:14:09 AM

I don't believe dickface putin cares enough about his own people to bother with it.  I don't believe he thinks about them, at all.

I agree that he doesn't care about his people.

He does care about having enough people to fill out his army though. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 22, 2024, 10:21:32 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 22, 2024, 10:15:37 AM

I agree that he doesn't care about his people.

He does care about having enough people to fill out his army though.

He already doesn't have that.  He's conscripting 60 year olds and emptying the prisons.  A complete shitshow.

On the bright side, there's a whole new batch of scores of thousands of newly single Russian brides coming online, for those who are into such things.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 22, 2024, 10:27:28 AM

boy howdy!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 22, 2024, 11:00:13 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 22, 2024, 10:21:32 AM

He already doesn't have that.  He's conscripting 60 year olds and emptying the prisons.  A complete shitshow.

On the bright side, there's a whole new batch of scores of thousands of newly single Russian brides coming online, for those who are into such things.

That's why I'm concerned that he will use his nukes!

He does the Belarus army at his disposal. Belarus is a Putin puppet. 1/2 of their population is between 25 and 45, as I understand it. North Korea might help him with numbers. They have big numbers.

China would probably stay out of it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 22, 2024, 11:16:08 AM

Belarus is nearing an internal revolution as it is.  I'd be surprised if any Belarus troops are actually pulled into the war against Ukraine.

And if Belarus DID make a move, I am pretty convinced that Poland will find an excuse to storm the border and end it, with haste.  They wouldn't be making a move against Russia proper so dickface putin wouldn't have any leverage for engaging against them.

Honestly I'm more worried about Poland right now, than I am about most other factors.  They're better armed and better-trained than Russia or Belarus, and they really, really hate the Russians.  They are just itching to get into it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 22, 2024, 11:24:40 AM

They sure seem to be.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 22, 2024, 11:43:58 AM

almost as much as the French :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 22, 2024, 11:44:30 AM

I'm all for European nations standing up for themselves in all of this.  Despite my belief that the US and the rest of the globe needs stability in Europe and therefore we DO have an interest in supplying military equipment to Ukraine, ultimately this is a European war and the countries in Europe will be far more affected than the US, if Russian aggression is permitted to go unchecked.

It's time for them to get off the bench.

But, ya know, still try to avoid provoking the nukes.  That would be bad.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 22, 2024, 12:32:11 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 22, 2024, 11:44:30 AM

I'm all for European nations standing up for themselves in all of this.  Despite my belief that the US and the rest of the globe needs stability in Europe and therefore we DO have an interest in supplying military equipment to Ukraine, ultimately this is a European war and the countries in Europe will be far more affected than the US, if Russian aggression is permitted to go unchecked.

It's time for them to get off the bench.

But, ya know, still try to avoid provoking the nukes.  That would be bad.

If Dickface is as crazy as we think he is, it might be hard to avoid. Especially if he has no choice and is failing.

He's not gonna make like Hitler and kill himself in a bunker. He's gonna take everyone else out with him.

Assuming he is that crazy. And I assume that he is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 22, 2024, 02:10:22 PM

He's definitely crazy.  Hopefully there are some layers between him and the button, some folks that might think twice about a desire to erase all life on Earth.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 22, 2024, 04:30:18 PM

We just visited Nagasaki ……

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 22, 2024, 05:15:25 PM

they built it back better?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 22, 2024, 06:11:20 PM

It was a city.  Hilly. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 23, 2024, 02:34:30 PM

https://www.earth.com/news/dark-matter-does-not-exist-universe-27-billion-years-old-study/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 23, 2024, 03:20:05 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on March 22, 2024, 06:48:35 AM

The Financial Times reports that the Biden administration is urging Ukraine to halt strikes on Russia's oil refineries.  I wonder what their motive is?

seriously? isn't it obvious. Biden admins motive is clearly not to further disrupt the global oil trade any further than this stupid easily avoidable war already has. last thing President Shitshis Diapers wants is for Ukraine to start blowing away Russian oil refineries and prices at the pump and at the grocery store to go up. President Fckface is up for re-election and he's getting his clocked cleaned in all the polls, losing every swing state he needs and is down like 6-7 points right now to Trump. 

he's behind in all the polls to win re-election at this point, and he doesn't want inflation at the pump to creep back up and bury him- because it will.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 23, 2024, 03:28:15 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 22, 2024, 07:32:06 AM

Putin is Crazy.

He WILL use the nukes before he goes down.

Yeah, I don't think he is crazy. He's been in office for 25 years and has been an effective leader for Russia bringing it back from the absolute brink of being a failed state when he took over. He's basically just your run of the mill strong man dictator. He's far more intelligent, cunning, shrewd, and calculating than any leader we've had since probably the first Bush. Willy Clinton was about as corrupt as they come and more interested in getting his willy touched than leading. W was an absolute retard and one of the worst Presidents we've ever had. Obama was probably the biggest scam artist I've ever seen and a really weak and ineffective leader to boot. Trump's saving grace was he didn't get us into a bunch of new wars. And he was much better on trade than all those previous jokers. Biden is without question one of the worst Presidents we've ever had. Can't tell who is worse between W and Biden, but man it's fcking close.

Putin could use nukes if US/Europe get involved- and I'd say he probably would use them if US/Europe/NATO went to war with him- because at that point he would be backed into a corner with nothing to lose and likely have no other choice if he wanted any prayer of halting NATO from just wiping Russia out wholesale or in negotiating any kind of settlement. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 23, 2024, 03:33:09 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 22, 2024, 07:44:34 AM

There is one reason, and one reason alone, why we are propping up Ukraine, and everyone with a brain knows it.

They have dirt. Lots and lots of dirt.

Same goes for going easy on China.

it has nothing to do with them having dirt.

neo-libs and neo-cons alike from Hillary Clinton to Bill Kristol have openly stated the goal in regards to Ukraine. US is using Ukraine as cannon fodder to bleed Russia dry and weaken Russia and contain them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 23, 2024, 03:35:58 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 22, 2024, 10:15:37 AM

I agree that he doesn't care about his people.

He does care about having enough people to fill out his army though.

what leader does care about their own people? lol. you think our leaders give a single fck about the people of this country? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 23, 2024, 03:40:31 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 22, 2024, 05:15:25 PM

they built it back better?

holy shit that made me LOL......I'm imaging a Japanese version of a stuttering babbling incoherent moronic diaper shitting tripping falling on a stage Joe Biden using that dumbass slogan trying to sell the people of Japan on rebuilding a nuked city back better

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 23, 2024, 03:48:41 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 23, 2024, 03:35:58 PM

what leader does care about their own people? lol. you think our leaders give a single fck about the people of this country?

Good point.


Anyway, a list of presidents in my lifetime:

Johnson - Too young to remember.

Nixon - A little too young. I remember Watergate.
Ford - Nice guy.

Carter - Disaster in all facets. Gave away the Panama Canal and terrible foreign policy.

Reagan - The best I've seen.

Bush 1 - Nice guy. Not a fan of the Gulf War (or any war).

Clinton - Not terrible as a leader, but corrupt and there's that Arkancide thing. Big trail of death. Decent foreign policy. Perdue got him elected.

Bush 2 - Disaster in all facets. Ramped up the Military Industrial Complex in ways never before seen.

Obama - Community organizer turned president. Weak foreign policy.

Trump - Tried to clean up the Swamp - didn't realize how deep it was. Shoulda stayed off of Twitter.

Biden - Disaster in all facets. Covid got him elected. Doesn't know his policies on anything. Puppet. Who's running the country? It ain't him.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 23, 2024, 03:50:43 PM

Maybe, just maybe, that ISIS attack in Moscow can bring the USA and Russia together on something. Maybe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2024, 04:17:40 PM

nah, not while they're in Ukraine

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 24, 2024, 05:17:59 AM

Not while Putin is blaming Ukraine, lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 24, 2024, 06:34:49 AM

I officiated my 2nd wedding today.  So that's something.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 24, 2024, 08:09:28 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 24, 2024, 06:34:49 AM

I officiated my 2nd wedding today.  So that's something.

May I ask what your qualifications are for that?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2024, 08:24:12 AM

In the past year, I've been around the Horn of Africa, in the Persian Gulf and near Iran (Strait of Hormuz), in Israel twice, downtown Atlanta, and at the Korean DMZ, and am headed to Istanbul in September and Taiwan next March.  We were on a plane flight once that had the flight tracker going over Ukraine, but we deviated from that (duh).  

Danger is my middle name.

Whoever plans the cruise line routes won't like me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 24, 2024, 08:38:36 AM

Those are good travel impressions. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 24, 2024, 10:31:17 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 24, 2024, 08:09:28 AM

May I ask what your qualifications are for that?

The internet and $17.00.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 24, 2024, 10:37:21 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 24, 2024, 10:31:17 AM

The internet and $17.00. 

Is this a great country or what.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2024, 10:42:14 AM

We had an attorney friend officiate ours.  She told me once we resgistered at the whatever office, we were married, the rest was frou frou and completely unnecessary for legal purposes.  I found this ... unusual or unexpected, but apparently it's the case.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2024, 10:42:41 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 24, 2024, 08:24:12 AM

In the past year, I've been around the Horn of Africa, in the Persian Gulf and near Iran (Strait of Hormuz), in Israel twice, downtown Atlanta, and at the Korean DMZ, and am headed to Istanbul in September and Taiwan next March.  We were on a plane flight once that had the flight tracker going over Ukraine, but we deviated from that (duh). 

Danger is my middle name.

or maybe something else

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2024, 10:43:53 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 24, 2024, 10:42:14 AM

We had an attorney friend officiate ours.  She told me once we resgistered at the whatever office, we were married, the rest was frou frou and completely unnecessary for legal purposes.  I found this ... unusual or unexpected, but apparently it's the case.

yup, go to the county courthouse
sign the paperwork
have a witness sign the paperwork

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2024, 10:49:48 AM

Georgia running back Trevor Etienne arrested, charged with DUI (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/georgia-running-back-trevor-etienne-arrested-charged-with-dui-229244209/?fbclid=IwAR1hxyYNLh42Mb_FWmpGdlHeoHcKEsoWiSSJ5BCWv2TlLpuOo5sO6ZaD5HY)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 24, 2024, 11:12:32 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 24, 2024, 10:31:17 AM

The internet and $17.00. 

😂😂😂

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 24, 2024, 11:40:05 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 24, 2024, 10:31:17 AM

The internet and $17.00. 

Interesting.

I am allowed to marry people on the water. Licensed Master Captains (USCG) can do that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2024, 11:45:01 AM

cost more than $17.00

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 24, 2024, 11:53:48 AM

Can also do a lot more with it.

The school alone was $2,500.00.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 24, 2024, 01:48:35 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 23, 2024, 04:17:40 PM

nah, not while they're in Ukraine

Yup, this.

US two weeks ago: Hey Russia, we have intel that ISIS is planning an attack on you.  We know approximately when and almost exactly where.  You should probably check into it.  We've openly warned all American citizens still in Russia to avoid gatherings in the meantime,

ISIS: Attacks

Russia: Huh... what?

US: You idiots, we told you so.

ISIS: We did it.

Russia: It was probably those nazis in Ukraine, expecailly their Jewish nazi president

ISIS: No really, we did it

dickface putin: We're convinced it was Ukraine.  Now we're going to increase our age for conscription, from age 60 up to age 80

US: Facepalm.  Fucking idiots.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2024, 02:01:52 PM

I don't expect Russia to admit "we" were right, they can't, so they need a story for internal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 24, 2024, 05:07:10 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 24, 2024, 10:49:48 AM

Georgia running back Trevor Etienne arrested, charged with DUI (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/georgia-running-back-trevor-etienne-arrested-charged-with-dui-229244209/?fbclid=IwAR1hxyYNLh42Mb_FWmpGdlHeoHcKEsoWiSSJ5BCWv2TlLpuOo5sO6ZaD5HY)

Never should have left Gainesville.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 24, 2024, 06:09:00 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 24, 2024, 02:01:52 PM

I don't expect Russia to admit "we" were right, they can't, so they need a story for internal.

there's defintiely that...and what might also be at play...what every government does...even our own does it... governments never let a crisis go unused to push it's agenda and grab for more power. they are just going to use this to go harder at the ukraine. it's very predictable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 24, 2024, 06:20:17 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 24, 2024, 01:48:35 PM

Yup, this.

US two weeks ago: Hey Russia, we have intel that ISIS is planning an attack on you.  We know approximately when and almost exactly where.  You should probably check into it.  We've openly warned all American citizens still in Russia to avoid gatherings in the meantime,

ISIS: Attacks

Russia: Huh... what?

US: You idiots, we told you so.

ISIS: We did it.

Russia: It was probably those nazis in Ukraine, expecailly their Jewish nazi president

ISIS: No really, we did it

dickface putin: We're convinced it was Ukraine.  Now we're going to increase our age for conscription, from age 60 up to age 80

US: Facepalm.  Fucking idiots.

I don't doubt that US had some kind of intel that some type of attack could be imminent, the NSA collects literally every type of communication in the entire world and stores it on databases.

Can also see why Russia would be skeptical of US at this point, they are effectively at war with each other. 

It also definitely makes sense as to why ISIS would want to attack Russia, seeing as how Russia has been fighting against ISIS branches in Syria and Africa.

Come to think of it- just clicked in my head now talking about this- but it also kind of makes sense why that little smelly grandma fcking weirdo Macron is flapping his gums trying to play mr tough guy big d*ck with Russia as well- over Africa. The French have long been disgusting pigs in Africa who have colonized and raped and pillaged the natural resources of the people of Africa and have controlled the economies, natural resources, governments, cash reserves & monetary policy of a dozen plus countries in Africa- and well they've been starting to get kicked out of many of those countries one by one over the last 4 or 5 years- all while Russia has been welcomed in with open arms to provide security and training and fight ISIS. France is not a country with abundant natural resources, they don't have magnesium, lithium, nickel, uranium, silver, diamond, gold mines or oil and natural gas fields. Their former colonies in Africa do though. France losing monetary control, influence over governments there, and access to abundant cheap natural resources in their former colonies is really bad news for a country that has rapidly been becoming a minor insignificant country trying desperately to hang on to it's long lost past glory as a great power.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2024, 06:40:54 PM

It seems pretty straightforward to me without resorting to some devious complex government plot.  Governments, in my limited experience, aren't very good at intricate plots, devious or otherwise.  Russia simply wants to blame someone else.

Of course, it's possible governments are so sneaky good that they pretend to be largely ineffective while in reality are deviously competent and plotting all the time to achieve dark goals.  In that case, I would of course lack any reliable information relating to their sneakiness.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 24, 2024, 06:46:01 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 24, 2024, 06:40:54 PM

It seems pretty straightforward to me without resorting to some devious complex government plot.  Governments, in my limited experience, aren't very good at intricate plots, devious or otherwise.  Russia simply wants to blame someone else.

Of course, it's possible governments are so sneaky good that they pretend to be largely ineffective while in reality are deviously competent and plotting all the time to achieve dark goals.  In that case, I would of course lack any reliable information relating to their sneakiness.

yeah, re-read what I said. there is no resorting to some devious complex government plot. wtf?

it's pretty basic simple sh*t actually.

governments never fail to use a crisis to their benefit. it's a tale as old as time. the putin gov't is going to use this crisis to their benefit and blame ukraine and push harder into exacting punishment on ukraine and in pushing public opinion harder into going along with it's war aims in ukraine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2024, 07:07:52 PM

Macron - flapping gums - something about Africa and colonies they lost many decades ago, talking about sending NATO troops into Ukraine - something something something about ISIS attacking Russia, or something.

I admit, I can't make it out.  But governments like that of the French could be just that sneaky devious and it would all be beyond me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 24, 2024, 07:46:25 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 24, 2024, 07:07:52 PM

Macron - flapping gums - something about Africa and colonies they lost many decades ago, talking about sending NATO troops into Ukraine - something something something about ISIS attacking Russia, or something.

I admit, I can't make it out.  But governments like that of the French could be just that sneaky devious and it would all be beyond me.

yeah, except France never lost any those colonies many decades ago. French influence over their governments and French economic & monetary policy control persists to this day in most of them- and the French were only very recently pushed out and completely expelled out of a handful of them.

Even after the "independence" of said colonies they were forced to sign agreements with the French gov't which gave French multi-nationals what was essentially exclusive access to natural resources, rights of first refusal to buy any new mines/oil/nat gas fields discovered in those countries, France maintained rights to have permanent military bases in all of them, France still controlled all the cash reserves of those countries in the French treasury, and France controls the currency and monetary policy of all those countries to this day. Read up about it a bit. Fascinatingly horrible stuff.

By the way, the French were also instrumental in the toppling of Libya and turning it into a failed state. US has to take center stage for the blame on that one, but France is very close behind. Gaddafi had aimed to create an African central bank with an African currency backed by gold which would be used to trade African oil exclusively in. This is obviously something the French did not want. Nor the Americans, for different reasons though. The French also wanted more control/access to Libyan oil- which they have gotten after overthrowing Gadaffi. See: French multi-national Total buying a huge chunk of the Waha Oil Company- a subsidiary of NOC- the state owned oil giant of Libya which produces nearly 3/4ths of all the oil in Libya. Which is fascinating by the way considering Sarkozy's rat bastard ass was the head of the French government at the time which helped to topple Gaddafi- meanwhile Gaddafi had bankrolled Sarkozy's fcking campaign and had secretly paid him something like 50 million euros to get his Presidential campaign off the ground in France with the understanding that Libya would get favor from the new French government.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2024, 08:33:30 PM

More devious plots intricately effected.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 24, 2024, 10:09:20 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 24, 2024, 06:09:00 PM

there's defintiely that...and what might also be at play...what every government does...even our own does it... governments never let a crisis go unused to push it's agenda and grab for more power. they are just going to use this to go harder at the ukraine. it's very predictable.

Sure but nobody's buying their shit.  Nobody outside of the other pariah states like North Korea and Iran, and a few other individual bad actors out there, believe even half a word that comes out of dickface putin's pustular piehole.

He can use it internally to attempt to whip his constituents into a fervor and justify further mobilizations, but the truth is he can and will do that anyway, without any reason at all-- the "cause" is irrelevant.  And it also doesn't change the fact that the only people left to conscript are those in the over-60 category.  He's thrown everyone else he can at the war and he's still been stalemated for 2 years.

He's a dead man walking and the Russian state is already effectively over.  The only damage he can do globally at this point, is if he decides to use nukes.  And I hope what you said earlier is right and that he won't do that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 24, 2024, 10:12:01 PM

I don't think you need to come up with plots as to why France would want to prevent Russian imperialism in Europe. 

And I'm not sure why someone who insists that the European countries should stand up for themselves without US backing, would complain about a European country standing up for itself without US backing.  That's silly and contradictory.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2024, 10:22:46 PM

It’s a devious intricate plot. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 24, 2024, 10:43:30 PM

Yeah....I mean, European countries are our bitch for a reason.  The reason is that we're their big bully friend standing right behind them when they get into an altercation.  If we don't back them up, there's no reason for them to be our bitch.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on March 25, 2024, 06:52:32 AM

I approve of Macron becoming a twist in Putin's knickers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 07:21:44 AM

The French with whom I have spoken disdain Macron, a lot, but they disdain any plausible replacements even more. 

I think for Macron to speak up as he did about Ukraine and NATO troops was a rather bad unforced silly error.  There was no upside for him at all.

I'd like to know more about how Swedes view joining NATO.  That is a large step for them, out of historical character.  I chatted briefly with one fellow who is a LT in their army and he was noncommital.  Sweden has a pretty competent military and their gear is pretty solid and up to date. 

Sweden NATO poll 2024 | Statista (https://www.statista.com/statistics/660842/survey-on-perception-of-nato-membership-in-sweden/)

Looks like they are pretty much in favor of it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 07:50:30 AM

Trump tax cuts set to expire – will you be affected? | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/4530402-trump-tax-cuts-set-to-expire-will-you-be-affected/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 08:07:51 AM

I "may" move more than normal monies from my IRA to taxable accounts this year, and next.  I'll need to look at the possible tax plans if the tax cuts end or get changed differently.

Like most things, a reasonable "compromise" could be met with this sort of stuff, but it doesn't play well with the base(s).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 25, 2024, 08:52:38 AM

We're going to do a Roth conversion with some of our stuff. That will happen between now and December 31, 2025.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on March 25, 2024, 10:08:43 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 20, 2024, 11:51:02 AM

To a certain extent, sure.  But some of them just have completely unrealistic expectations, that seem to come from social media sources, and/or their insistence on living within their own echo-chambers.

I have one nephew, he's now 30. He can't bother himself to wake up in the morning to get to a job, so he's usually out of work.  He likes to have long, philosophical discussions about how "creatives" are tremendously under-appreciated in society, there's no place for them to earn a living.  He's always been on the artsy side, was in theater and choir in high school, but he doesn't currently do anything "creative" so I have no idea what he really means or what his expectations are.  He's not an artist or a writer or an actor or a singer, has never tried to be any of those things.

He waves me off when I point out that our current society has all kinds of paying outlets for "creatives."  Graphic design, for example, is absolutely booming compared to where it was 20 or even 10 years ago.  And then of course there are the standard jobs for artsy folks, those I mentioned above, like actors/writers/artists. 

But what I really think he honestly believes, is that he should be compensated for thinking.  For philosophizing.  That society should place such high value on his thoughts that he is paid for thinking them and talking about them.

But even THEN, there ARE potential outlets where he might be traded something of value-- cash, lodging, food, whatever-- if he actually bothered to try and spread his "creative visions" through some consumable medium. It's possible, if he wrote a book about his ideas, that it might be published. It's possible, that if he started a Youtube channel or a podcast about his ideas, that he might get monetized.  There are now more opportunities than EVER BEFORE IN HISTORY, for people to be compensated for non-traditional work.  More opportunities than ever before, for the widespread distribution and potential monetization of "content" that is of value only to a select few, because it's easier to reach people now, than ever before.

And yet, he does none of those things.  He seems to think that just his existence and enthusiasm for talking about his philosophies, should be enough for society to be willing to support him.

I know he's unhappy with our current society, as are his many similar friends I've encountered.  I have no doubt they're among the ones expressing their unhappiness with current American society.

And it's all complete bullshit.

The difference is that a lot of these "kids" are being enabled by their parents.  He can't bother to wake himself up in the morning because he doesn't need a job.  Mommy and Daddy probably pay all his bills, and he probably lives at home.  Thus, his warped view of reality continues to get worse.  

Few of us "like" getting up early in the morning and going to work.  While I bet we almost all enjoy a job or career, do you just jump out of bed everyday, and race to work?  It's all part of being an adult, and my kids all know that their days at home in the nest are numbered. My oldest is out there busting his ass in our business, from 6-7 AM to 7-8 PM some nights.  And on top of that he's a full time college student.  

One of the things that I have learned in life is that there is a difference in intelligence and wisdom.  Anybody can be smart, but not everybody can be wise.  Sounds like to me he is just lazy, or unmotivated, or both.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 10:09:49 AM

Life sucks and then you die.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 25, 2024, 10:28:10 AM

Quote from: Gigem on March 25, 2024, 10:08:43 AM

The difference is that a lot of these "kids" are being enabled by their parents.  He can't bother to wake himself up in the morning because he doesn't need a job.  Mommy and Daddy probably pay all his bills, and he probably lives at home.  Thus, his warped view of reality continues to get worse. 

I know one of the trends in this younger generation is that they don't seem to place a lot of emphasis on getting a driver's license. My son is a good example. He's already past 16 1/2 and didn't get his permit until 5 months after his birthday, and now has to wait through 6 months of driver training before he can take his test. He could have gotten his permit at 15 1/2 and then taken the test before this school year. But he didn't. And he doesn't seem to care that he'll go an entire school that he COULD have been licensed and wasn't. 

It's the exact opposite of me. At the time Illinois offered driver training at school, but since I had a summer birthday I couldn't take the school-offered training until the fall. So I begged and pleaded with my parents to put me into a public non-school driver training program, and then on the day of my 16th birthday, went to take my test. I was absolutely going to get that license as SOON as humanly possible. 

Honestly, I know the difference between us. I've made his life too comfortable. When I was that age, I had to bum rides off an upperclassman to get to/from school or take the bus. My parent's weren't driving me. When I was that age, and I wanted to get somewhere, I had a bicycle. There were some things my parents would drive me to (esp. in the winter) but sometimes they couldn't, and I had to get there myself. Him? He gets chauffeured around anywhere he needs to go. 

I made the point to him yesterday. He volunteered at the local senior tour golf tournament over the weekend. It's 30 minutes from my house and required dropoff and pickup each day. Yesterday when I had to pick him up, shortly before I arrived he texted me and said they were keeping him an hour late (turns out it was only ~30 minutes). I highlighted to him that HIS inability to get his drivers license situation basically took away 4 1/2 hours of MY weekend that wasn't necessary. And that he needs to get off his ass and prioritize driver training (practice time) so that he's going to be ready when the 6 month clock expires and he can take the test. 

Next school year, he's going to be expected not only to get himself around, but to drive his brother and sister to/from school. Hopefully he'll learn how "fun" it is to be someone's chauffeur. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 25, 2024, 10:42:53 AM

Yeah when we were kids, it was absolutely expected that you'd skip school the morning of your 16th birthday, take your driver test, and have your license. It was a rite of passage.

If you were fortunate or extremely hard-working, you might also have a car of your own, but if nothing else, you at least had the capability to borrow a parent's car on evenings/weekends when they weren't using it.  The point being, that license and that car represented freedom-- the teenaged American dream. 

Modern kids really don't have that same motivation.  I guess they're able to keep up with their friends well enough through facetime, texting, snapchat, and social media, that they don't feel the need to share physical space with their friends.  Which is something I view to be unhealthy-- people need time outdoors, time away from home, time shared physically in the presence of other people.  It forms stronger, healthier, more mature bonds.

Luckily for me, my 16yo daughter is completely the opposite.  She approached it just like we did back in the day.  She figured out what drivers ed class she wanted, she figured out the cheapest way to do it, she made sure we got her signed up for the class and made sure I made the appointment with the DMV so that by her 15th birthday she could get her learner's permit.  Then she made sure she finished her online class and driving hours with me, as well as made the appointment with the DMV for her driver's test, so that she could have her license exactly on her 16th birthday. She was MOTIVATED and now she's looking for a summer job, which will be easy for her to attend, since she has her license and a car.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on March 25, 2024, 11:38:32 AM

My oldest son was slow to get his license. His birthday was in May, I started warning him he would feel pretty stupid not having a license when summer started. You have to have your permit I think 6 months before getting your license. He ended up getting it about July. He told me later I was right, he felt pretty stupid missing half the summer with no license. 

Youngest son was all over it, got his as soon he could. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 25, 2024, 11:43:02 AM

https://nypost.com/2024/03/25/business/california-chains-slash-workers-as-20-an-hour-minimum-wage-looms/

Hmm. Who could possibly have predicted this???

GrubHub and the like benefit. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 11:43:43 AM

I recall we got our learner's permit at 15 and then could get the DL at 16, and most took the test on their birthday as noted.  I dimly recall taking a DE course that summer, it was of course mostly silly, but one kid I was with had never driven before, and another had only drive a clutch, so he kept stepping on the nonexistent clutch.

We had a huge Olds 88 and I recall it didn't move right away, you pressed on the gas and nothing happened and then it would lurch ahead.  I didn't get to drive it much because the teacher had to spend more time with the newbie.

We had to watch some movie that was pretty scary for 30 minutes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 11:47:01 AM

I glanced at the McDs in Seoul the other day, thought about ordering a burger, but you had to use kiosks to order and pay and it was all in Greek, or somesuch.

We ran into a fair bit of language problems in Korea, mostly because I don't speak Korean.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 25, 2024, 11:49:04 AM

Quote from: Gigem on March 25, 2024, 11:38:32 AM

My oldest son was slow to get his license. His birthday was in May, I started warning him he would feel pretty stupid not having a license when summer started. You have to have your permit I think 6 months before getting your license. He ended up getting it about July. He told me later I was right, he felt pretty stupid missing half the summer with no license.

Youngest son was all over it, got his as soon he could.

Yeah, not only do you have to have your learner's permit for a full 6 mos before you can get your actual license, but these days with everything being by appointment, in the urban areas, those appointments can book up 6 months ahead of time.  So if you're not anticipating those dates and planning accordingly, you can end up not being able to get an appointment on or close to the kid's birthday.

A friend and his daughter had to drive about 60 miles to a rural DMV because they didn't make their appointments in time at the nearby ones.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 25, 2024, 11:51:09 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 25, 2024, 11:43:02 AM

https://nypost.com/2024/03/25/business/california-chains-slash-workers-as-20-an-hour-minimum-wage-looms/

Hmm. Who could possibly have predicted this???

GrubHub and the like benefit.

having fast food chains do less business or go out of business is probably a good thing for most people
unhealthy and expensive

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 25, 2024, 11:52:28 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 25, 2024, 11:49:04 AM

A friend and his daughter had to drive about 60 miles to a rural DMV because they didn't make their appointments in time at the nearby ones.

could have possibly saved them some time and trouble

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 25, 2024, 11:55:51 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 25, 2024, 10:42:53 AM

Yeah when we were kids, it was absolutely expected that you'd skip school the morning of your 16th birthday, take your driver test, and have your license. It was a rite of passage.

If you were fortunate or extremely hard-working, you might also have a car of your own, but if nothing else, you at least had the capability to borrow a parent's car on evenings/weekends when they weren't using it.  The point being, that license and that car represented freedom-- the teenaged American dream. 

Modern kids really don't have that same motivation.  I guess they're able to keep up with their friends well enough through facetime, texting, snapchat, and social media, that they don't feel the need to share physical space with their friends.  Which is something I view to be unhealthy-- people need time outdoors, time away from home, time shared physically in the presence of other people.  It forms stronger, healthier, more mature bonds.

Luckily for me, my 16yo daughter is completely the opposite.  She approached it just like we did back in the day.  She figured out what drivers ed class she wanted, she figured out the cheapest way to do it, she made sure we got her signed up for the class and made sure I made the appointment with the DMV so that by her 15th birthday she could get her learner's permit.  Then she made sure she finished her online class and driving hours with me, as well as made the appointment with the DMV for her driver's test, so that she could have her license exactly on her 16th birthday. She was MOTIVATED and now she's looking for a summer job, which will be easy for her to attend, since she has her license and a car.

There may be some “luck involved” with your daughter, big motivated, but I am going to make an educated guess that it’s coming from her parents.  👍

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 25, 2024, 11:57:34 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 25, 2024, 11:51:09 AM

having fast food chains do less business or go out of business is probably a good thing for most people
unhealthy and expensive

Yeah but a pretty substantial part of the economy.  Something like $382 billion in 2022.

I guess they can all just go become influencers and replace that revenue stream quick and easy-like.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 25, 2024, 12:11:03 PM

I got my DL as soon as I could and bought a car as soon as I could - as well as being able to afford the insurance. My dad would not let me on his policy and forced me to get 100/300 on my own policy so long as I lived at home. I moved out at 19, but still kept the 100/300.

My kids were the same, but I bought their cars. I made them get their own 300/300 because that's what my umbrella required (and still does).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 12:28:45 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 10:09:49 AM

Life sucks and then you die.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4Df4L6lAgs

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 25, 2024, 12:30:50 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 25, 2024, 11:57:34 AM

Yeah but a pretty substantial part of the economy.  Something like $382 billion in 2022.

I guess they can all just go become influencers and replace that revenue stream quick and easy-like.

they can all just do more business in Texas and Florida

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 12:55:55 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 25, 2024, 11:43:02 AM

https://nypost.com/2024/03/25/business/california-chains-slash-workers-as-20-an-hour-minimum-wage-looms/

Hmm. Who could possibly have predicted this???

GrubHub and the like benefit.

awe schucks, too bad the completely corrupt governor of California couldn't push through a carve out for McD's, Taco Bell, or BK franchisees to avoid $20/hr min wage. guess only his close personal friend/top donor gets those. lmao.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 01:40:57 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 25, 2024, 12:30:50 PM

they can all just do more business in Texas and Florida

no thanks. 99.9% of fast food sucks. although it would be cool to have in-n-out here. their burgers are good for fast food. fries suck though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 25, 2024, 01:43:08 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 25, 2024, 11:51:09 AM

having fast food chains do less business or go out of business is probably a good thing for most people
unhealthy and expensive

Putting people out of business often isn't good for their health. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 01:43:35 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 25, 2024, 11:51:09 AM

having fast food chains do less business or go out of business is probably a good thing for most people
unhealthy and expensive

while probably true, QSR is an important chunk of the US economy. a better solution would be for the FDA to you know, do it's actual fcking job instead of tweeting about one of the safest, most widely used human medicines in history- and actually start to get a lot tougher and more stringent on food standards. follow the Europeans but go further. whole bunch of preservatives, food dyes, chemicals, artificial disgusting high-fructose corn syrup and bunch of other sh*t in US food and especially fast food that flat out should not be allowed. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 01:46:03 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 25, 2024, 01:43:08 PM

Putting people out of business often isn't good for their health.

California does not care about businesses, that much has been obvious for a long time now. fast food chains won't go out of business, workers will get fired and they'll cut back on staff or do only temp or part-time and they'll switch to more automation even faster than they were already planning, and they'll raise prices. the workers and end customer will wind up getting the shaft, as always. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 01:57:15 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 24, 2024, 10:12:01 PM

I don't think you need to come up with plots as to why France would want to prevent Russian imperialism in Europe. 

And I'm not sure why someone who insists that the European countries should stand up for themselves without US backing, would complain about a European country standing up for itself without US backing.  That's silly and contradictory.

I wasn't trying to make a comment on France wanting to prevent Russian imperialism in Europe.

Ukraine being in the EU sphere of influence or Russian sphere of influence really doesn't mean jack you know what to France at the end of the day, much like it doesn't mean jack to the US. 

I was more trying to make a comment however on France most definitely wanting to see Russia fall flat on it's face and the Putin regime crumble, as Russia is becoming a major threat to ending French hegemony in resource rich Africa.

I 100% believe it's about time the Europeans go at it alone and grow up and leave Daddy America the fck out of all their bullshit. I just don't buy for a second that would happen. I think Macron is probably bluffing. Think it's doubtful that France is getting involved militarily without Daddy America.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 25, 2024, 02:03:25 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 01:40:57 PM

no thanks. 99.9% of fast food sucks. although it would be cool to have in-n-out here. their burgers are good for fast food. fries suck though.

Culver's is good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 02:03:52 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 24, 2024, 10:43:30 PM

Yeah....I mean, European countries are our bitch for a reason.  The reason is that we're their big bully friend standing right behind them when they get into an altercation.  If we don't back them up, there's no reason for them to be our bitch. 

yup. they are our bitch because of NATO. 

As the first Secretary General of NATO Hastings Ismay said- the reason for NATO's existence was "to keep the Soviet Union out, the Americans in, and the Germans down."

Which is why NATO continued on and expanded since the fall of the Soviet Union, to not only maintain US hegemony in Europe but grow it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 02:05:35 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 25, 2024, 02:03:25 PM

Culver's is good.

yeah I think they are pretty good as well. definitely much better than your McD, Wendy, BK. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 02:19:50 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 24, 2024, 10:09:20 PM

Sure but nobody's buying their shit.  Nobody outside of the other pariah states like North Korea and Iran, and a few other individual bad actors out there, believe even half a word that comes out of dickface putin's pustular piehole.

He can use it internally to attempt to whip his constituents into a fervor and justify further mobilizations, but the truth is he can and will do that anyway, without any reason at all-- the "cause" is irrelevant.  And it also doesn't change the fact that the only people left to conscript are those in the over-60 category.  He's thrown everyone else he can at the war and he's still been stalemated for 2 years.

He's a dead man walking and the Russian state is already effectively over.  The only damage he can do globally at this point, is if he decides to use nukes.  And I hope what you said earlier is right and that he won't do that.

they don't need anyone on the outside to buy their bullsh*t. no one already does. it's obvious as day that it was ISIS that did this. it's propaganda used to gin up support inside Russia to fight their illegal war vs Ukraine. they'll blame Ukraine and try to use the crisis to boost support within for the war effort.

I don't think the Russian state is effectively over. It's been bled and weakened for sure, but it's not done for. I think they're very likely going to win this thing- sort of direct US/NATO involvement. US sanctions have not worked and have in fact backfired. It's caused an acceleration of US dollar flight- many other countries have seen how the US weaponized the US dollar and world financial system the US controls and are having second thoughts thinking- do we really want to be part of that- do we really want one country to have that much control. Ukraine is running out of men and has lost 20% of it's territory and have not been able to gain an inch back with their counter-offensive. The US population most definitely does not want to get directly involved in fighting a war in Ukraine vs Russia and are running out of patience with cutting blank check after blank check and want an end to the war.

I won't pretend to get inside Putin's head, but I would guess the only likely scenario he's using nukes is if he's backed into a corner- and that corner would be the US sending troops on the ground to fight Ukraine's war for them and attacking targets inside Russia with missile strikes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 25, 2024, 02:31:27 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 02:19:50 PM

I won't pretend to get inside Putin's head, but I would guess the only likely scenario he's using nukes is if he's backed into a corner- and that corner would be the US sending troops on the ground to fight Ukraine's war for them and attacking targets inside Russia with missile strikes. 

Ukraine will absolutely attack sites within Russia with missiles.  They're already hitting refineries with drones and such, I expect them to do it much more often going forward.  Ukraine is fighting an existential war for its very existence.  The less aid sent by the US, the less they'll do what we want.  So far they've only held back because we've kept them on a leash. The nastiness hasn't even begun. 

But there won't be any US troops on the ground in Ukraine or Russia.  There won't be, there can't be, and there shouldn't be.  We agree on that much at least.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 02:38:14 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 25, 2024, 02:31:27 PM

Ukraine will absolutely attack sites within Russia with missiles.  They're already hitting refineries with drones and such, I expect them to do it much more often going forward.  Ukraine is fighting an existential war for its very existence.  The less aid sent by the US, the less they'll do what we want.  So far they've only held back because we've kept them on a leash. The nastiness hasn't even begun.

But there won't be any US troops on the ground in Ukraine or Russia.  There won't be, there can't be, and there shouldn't be.  We agree on that much at least.

I hear that, and you'd think Ukraine should be trying to attack sites within Russia- they are at war after all and trying to prevent total collapse and total occupation by Russia. I was merely saying- that the troops we have and the missiles and bombs we have- are a lot better than what we've given Ukraine- and Putin knows that. He's fcked if Ukraine is keeping him stalemated where he's at and then the US starts sending in troops on the ground, drones with hellfire missiles, F-22's, F-35's, and all the crazy missiles and bombs and sh*t we have. He'd be backed into a corner, and back someone in a corner you just never know wtf they might do.

My hope is that there is an end to this war much sooner than later.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 03:04:51 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 24, 2024, 08:33:30 PM

More devious plots intricately effected.

yeah, not really.

source (https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/12660): an email Hillary Clinton sent as secretary of state to an underling at the state department...


On April 2, 2011 sources with access to advisors to Saif al-Islam Qaddafi stated in strictest confidence that while the freezing of Libya's foreign bank accounts presents Muammar Qaddafi with serious challenges, his ability to equip and maintain his armed forces and intelligence services remains intact. According to sensitive information available to this these individuals, Qaddafi's government holds 143 tons of gold, and a similar amount in silver. During late March, 2011 these stocks were moved to SABHA (south west in the direction of the Libyan border with Niger and Chad); taken from the vaults of the Libyan Central Bank in Tripoli.

This gold was accumulated prior to the current rebellion and was intended to be used to establish a pan-African currency based on the Libyan golden Dinar. This plan was designed to provide the Francophone African Countries with an alternative to the French franc (CFA).

(Source Comment: According to knowledgeable individuals this quantity of gold and silver is valued at more than $7 billion).

UNCLASSIFIED U.S. Department of State Case No. F-2014-20439 Doc No. C05785507 Date: 01/07/2016

French intelligence officers discovered this plan shortly after the current rebellion began, and this was one of the factors that influenced President Nicolas Sarkozy's decision to commit France to the attack on Libya. According to these individuals Sarkozy's plans are driven by the following issues:

a. A desire to gain a greater share of Libya oil production,

b. Increase French influence in North Africa,

c. Improve his internal political situation in.France,

d. Provide the French military with an opportunity to reassert its position in the world,

e. Address the concern of his advisors over Qaddafi's long term plans to supplant France as the dominant power in Francophone Africa.)

Oh and as far as the rat bastard Sarkozy goes....well he's only been convicted multiple times and the evidence is overwhelming that he took 50 million euros from Gaddafi to jump start financing of his presidential campaign- with the obvious quid pro quo that Gaddafi would receive favor from the French gov't once Sarkozy took power.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/frances-sarkozy-found-guilty-illegal-campaign-financing-appeals-court-confirms-2024-02-14/

Knowledge is your friend. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 06:26:02 PM

I thought the topic was French former colonies, but then, I admit to being confused.  Macron, Ukraine, NATO, French colonies, raw materials, something linking it all together. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 25, 2024, 07:20:47 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 06:26:02 PM

I thought the topic was French former colonies, but then, I admit to being confused.  Macron, Ukraine, NATO, French colonies, raw materials, something linking it all together.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Someone points out "holy crap Putin is bad and doing bad things". The whataboutist says "well look at all these other bad things others have done" to distract and deflect. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 07:31:46 PM

Yeah, it's pretty consistent, along with the various epithets attached to various world "leaders".  I could mention I think little of Macron without calling him childish names.  I might let slip one about Bush 2 for personal reasons, but not usually.

I'm not sure Putin has real designs on the Baltics, I think that would be crazy.  Moldova, yes, Baltics probably not as much.  I don't view him as crazy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 07:34:23 PM

So in other news today...Trump wins an appeal in court in his NY civil case today and gets a 10 day extension to post bond, and the bond is reduced from $454 million to $175 million. 

Absolute biggest crock of shit case I have ever seen in my entire fcking life- the criminal AG who brought the bogus case and the fcking weirdo Judge who brought forth that bullsh*t ruling he pulled out of his fcking ass in a jury free trial (gee, that sounds fair) all because the radical criminal AG abused her powers and filed the civil suit under a state consumer protection law that denies a defendant the right to a jury. Yeah, cause this civil case was really all about protecting consumers....lmfao. Those poor consumer Wall Street banks surely need protection! :043:

This news comes just days after Trump's media company which owns his dumbass twitter knockoff Truth Social won approval by shareholders of a publicly traded SPAC called DWAC to merge- the merger was finalized today- share price of the company stock went up 35% on the NASDAQ today- and will net Trump billions of dollars- possibly allowing him to a secure a loan against his stock holdings in the new company to put up that $175 million bond so he won't have to put up his own cash. Which honestly is probably not something he'd want to do- because even if he wins his appeal vs the state of NY in that civil case- and he most definitely will- it'd be fcking YEARS before he ever got that money back from the state of NY. He'll be dead before that money is returned.

Liberal tears have to be flowing and heads exploding right now. You almost hate to see it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 07:36:35 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 25, 2024, 07:20:47 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Someone points out "holy crap Putin is bad and doing bad things". The whataboutist says "well look at all these other bad things others have done" to distract and deflect.

yeah, no. whataboutism is not a real thing. it's just some stupid propagandistic term some dumb asshole made up and pulled out of his asshole to get stupid people to avoid seeking truth. it's a very effective tool, because: people are mostly very stupid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 07:39:29 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 07:34:23 PM

This news comes just days after Trump's media company which owns his dumbass twitter knockoff Truth Social won approval by shareholders of a publicly traded SPAC called DWAC to merge- the merger was finalized today- share price of the company stock went up 35% on the NASDAQ today- and will net Trump billions of dollars- possibly allowing him to a secure a loan against his stock holdings in the new company to put up that $175 million bond so he won't have to put up his own cash.

Trump praises Truth Social after DWAC stock plunge (cnbc.com)

 (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/23/trump-says-i-love-truth-social-after-dwac-stock-plunges-.html?&qsearchterm=truth social)I've seen speculation some deep pocket types are trying to funnel money to Trump via this SPAC and the merged company, which would start trading tomorrow.  I can't find any real value in the proposition, at all.


TMTG, which owns the Trump Social platform that Trump used Saturday to proclaim his love for the app, reported losses of nearly $50 million over the first three financial quarters of 2023. It booked less than $3.5 million in revenue during that time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 07:40:15 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 07:36:35 PM

yeah, no. whataboutism is not a real thing. it's just some stupid propagandistic term some dumb asshole made up and pulled out of his asshole to get stupid people to avoid seeking truth. it's a very effective tool, because: people are mostly very stupid.

It's nice that you're so very very smart as compared with the rest of us here.

But, you need to dumb things down a bit so "we" can follow along.  I am easily confused.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 25, 2024, 07:57:38 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 07:36:35 PM

yeah, no. whataboutism is not a real thing. it's just some stupid propagandistic term some dumb asshole made up and pulled out of his asshole to get stupid people to avoid seeking truth. it's a very effective tool, because: people are mostly very stupid.

It's absolutely a real thing. Putin has been criticized for saying that the terror attack was Ukraine when most of the world's intelligence communities believes it's ISIS, and ISIS claimed credit for it.

So you want to suddenly talk about Macron and France's colonial history and how they're trying to protect their Francophile colonial African domination.

Which all may be true. But which has NOTHING to do with Putin claiming that Ukraine was behind or ordered the terror attack. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 07:59:19 PM

But "we" mistreated the native Americans also (and continue to do it in large part).  What about THAT!?!?!?!?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 08:09:07 PM

Last time a Trump company went public it didn't go well for investors (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/23/last-time-a-trump-company-went-public-it-didnt-go-well-for-investors.html?&qsearchterm=djt)

I predict gloom and doom on this one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 08:36:02 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 08:09:07 PM

Last time a Trump company went public it didn't go well for investors (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/23/last-time-a-trump-company-went-public-it-didnt-go-well-for-investors.html?&qsearchterm=djt)

I predict gloom and doom on this one.

comparing apples to oranges.

tech/social media/app companies are typically ridiculously overvalued. look at twitter, no way that piece of sh*t was worth anywhere near what Musk ponied up for it. look at uber or lyft. dogshit companies that lose money like it's going out of style. yet valuations in the tens of billions.

casino/hotel companies with a dozen or so massive properties with massive overhead & losses- huge mortgage payments, huge construction, maintenance, operating expenses, property taxes? ehhh....not so much.

i have no idea how many users that stupid app has nor what their ad revenue is like, but he doesn't need it to be a successful company to be a success for him. all he needs to do is sell the stock in 6 months when his lockup is over and he'll make a shitload in profit.

This new merger ought to try and secure the funding to take over TikTok. Whoever buys that sh*t and takes it public going to make stupid money.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 08:38:43 PM

I’m able to converse without profanity.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 08:38:49 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 07:40:15 PM

It's nice that you're so very very smart as compared with the rest of us here.

But, you need to dumb things down a bit so "we" can follow along.  I am easily confused.

brother I'm an idiot. you are most definitely way smarter than me. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 08:42:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 07:39:29 PM

Trump praises Truth Social after DWAC stock plunge (cnbc.com)

 (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/23/trump-says-i-love-truth-social-after-dwac-stock-plunges-.html?&qsearchterm=truth social)I've seen speculation some deep pocket types are trying to funnel money to Trump via this SPAC and the merged company, which would start trading tomorrow.  I can't find any real value in the proposition, at all.

TMTG, which owns the Trump Social platform that Trump used Saturday to proclaim his love for the app, reported losses of nearly $50 million over the first three financial quarters of 2023. It booked less than $3.5 million in revenue during that time.

anyone who wants to support him can just buy stock and hold it. no doubt he'll have a bunch of crazy ass fans who love him buy $500 here or $1,000 here. and wouldn't doubt for a second he'd have people with deep pocket types who support him buy the stock to prop up the value either.

i haven't been able to find anything on Truth Social, how many users it has, how much ad revenue it has. i can't imagine it's more than a 5 or 10 million users. if that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 08:44:06 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 08:38:43 PM

I’m able to converse without profanity. 

I'm not. Sorry, I am ashamed to admit it. I'll try to tone it down. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 25, 2024, 08:48:50 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 08:42:08 PM

anyone who wants to support him can just buy stock and hold it. no doubt he'll have a bunch of crazy ass fans who love him buy $500 here or $1,000 here. and wouldn't doubt for a second he'd have people with deep pocket types who support him buy the stock to prop up the value either.

i haven't been able to find anything on Truth Social, how many users it has, how much ad revenue it has. i can't imagine it's more than a 5 or 10 million users. if that.

That will end when it goes public

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 08:53:31 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 25, 2024, 08:48:50 PM

That will end when it goes public

yeah, they'll have to release reports on all that good stuff. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 09:06:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 07:59:19 PM

But "we" mistreated the native Americans also (and continue to do it in large part).  What about THAT!?!?!?!?

we don't have to go back that far. that's all not on us either- the Spanish, British, Portuguese, and French pretty much wiped them out, we just finished off the job.

let's just stick to recent history. last 20 years would be fine. in that timespan we have destroyed Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and Syria. Aided and armed the Saudi's to the teeth and helped them wipe out Yemen, have aided and armed Israel to the teeth and helped them commit a brutal inhumane occupation of the Palestinian people for the last 7-8 decades and are complicit in the absolutely horrific crimes being committed in Gaza these past few months.

stack up the body counts, no one comes close to the US. we ain't the good guys. there's no such thing as good guys. we're a nation of propagandized hypocrites. doesn't make much sense to me for Americans to point at this evil bad guy over there in the world and condemn him. what good does that do? make you feel like a good person? point out those crimes over there while ignoring your own? makes no sense to me. not much we can do about the affairs of other nations or crimes other nations commit or effect those outcomes. we can however do something here in this country to effect change in this country and move outcomes in this country with our votes. don't like the direction the republic is going? change it with your vote. we can and should recognize the crimes we commit and stop committing them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 25, 2024, 09:12:37 PM

Of course whataboutism is a real thing.  It's an extension of the tu quoque or ad hominem logical fallacy.  Using the logical fallacy of whataboutism immediately negates the counter-argument of the whataboutist.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on March 25, 2024, 09:25:37 PM

Also known as whataboutery    

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 25, 2024, 09:25:45 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 20, 2024, 11:51:02 AM

I have one nephew, he's now 30. He can't bother himself to wake up in the morning to get to a job, so he's usually out of work.  He likes to have long, philosophical discussions about how "creatives" are tremendously under-appreciated in society, there's no place for them to earn a living.  He's always been on the artsy side, was in theater and choir in high school, but he doesn't currently do anything "creative"

And it's all complete bullshit.

A very good/old friend of mine has a 28 yr old son - same-same. He has no mental affliction,just a smug detached aloofness as he is not to be bothered. Work would interfere with longing around & doing God knows what on his cell phone all day over at either mom's or dad's place. Well his mother actually visits the food pantry that I've been volunteering at. So I told her to send Lax (lex is his name)so she wouldn't have to endure the torure of waiting in line for 15-45 minutes for 3 bags of groceries(I see where lax gets it from).

His father and the two other sons are polar opposites,Joe worked thru college and by 29 finished his master's.The other sons - one still in H.S. the other works warehouse/drives for UPS, both worked,played football,lacrosse or rugby. But lax was giving me flak and being difficult because he had to help us unload bulk food items,seperate and bag all of it(he's a weight lifter BTW) I tried to tell him he'd feel better about himself working at least 3 hrs one day to eat all week.He's one of the reason's I don't conceal/carry but I know his deceased Irish immigrant brick layer Grand dad would have shot him in the ass by now

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 25, 2024, 09:28:46 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 08:44:06 PM

I'm not. Sorry, I am ashamed to admit it. I'll try to tone it down.

Bastage

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 09:34:56 PM

What about whataboutery?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 09:35:04 PM

https://www.schwab.com/learn/story/when-should-i-collect-social-security?cid=31236036%7C6069808%7C207810558%7C384506874

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 09:37:17 PM

Anyone here own or have fired a Staccato?

https://staccato2011.com

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 25, 2024, 09:40:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 09:37:17 PM

Anyone here own or have fired a Staccato?

https://staccato2011.com

Burny probably has.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 25, 2024, 09:50:53 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 07:36:35 PM

yeah, no. whataboutism is not a real thing. it's just some stupid propagandistic term some dumb asshole made up and pulled out of his asshole to get stupid people to avoid seeking truth. it's a very effective tool, because: people are mostly very stupid.

Whataboutism was the entire explanation of the Iraq War, once the WMD BS was laughed out of the room.

It's real. It's a diversion tactic.  

It's extremely common.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 09:52:23 PM

Indeed. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2024, 05:38:53 AM

Baltimore’s Francis Scott Key Bridge collapses after being struck by ship; video – WSB-TV Channel 2 - Atlanta (wsbtv.com) (https://www.wsbtv.com/news/trending/baltimores-francis-scott-key-bridge-collapses-after-being-struck-by-ship/CJPBZOUEURGDJC3DRTQIJDAWPQ/?fbclid=IwAR3lBUw_cId2t4jShHACytPL6jHwb7BWokFIz0uHwXMk6BNh18pR-dyNo_w)

This does not look good at all.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2024, 05:54:39 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 25, 2024, 08:44:06 PM

I'm not. Sorry, I am ashamed to admit it. I'll try to tone it down.

The thing is, you can't seem to mention any world leaders without a blast of profane epithets, except Putin and Trump.

It's one thing to dislike some world leader, fine with me, the barrage of epithets seems, to me, both unbalanced and puerile, and also dilutive of effect due to overuse.  Many of "us" might post "that poor excuse for a President X" once or twice, fine, but the constant "f-ing dopehead incompetent senile s-head Macron" is in my view counterproductive and not conducive to intelligent discourse, if indeed, such a thing can exist.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2024, 05:57:13 AM

Truth Social owner Trump Media to begin trading under DJT ticker (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/25/truth-social-owner-trump-media-will-begin-trading-under-djt-ticker-tuesday.html)

If ever there was a modern example of Dutch tulip bulbs .... this looks like one to me.  Perhaps that means it's a great investment bound to explode upwards, but I think not.

Hopefully, the scam artists get taken in this one, and the deep pockets who may be propping it up to help DJT get fleeced, but they probably expect and can afford it.

This is a unique way to funnel money from A to B, from what I can discern.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2024, 06:01:36 AM

Stetson Bennett update: Rams QB, who missed all of his rookie season, set to participate in offseason workouts - CBSSports.com (https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/stetson-bennett-update-rams-qb-who-missed-all-of-his-rookie-season-set-to-participate-in-offseason-workouts/?fbclid=IwAR1zAOmm0vuW8v7iUfBneHPhDz6x3_PGJj5MtCSjXTVEKAlv5pA-U1LRG4w)

They really managed to keep this story submerged, I'm surprised.  I think most believe it's alcohol related.  I don't feel some need to "know", and wish other "celebrities" could somehow get needed treatment without all the pub, but we know that rarely happens.

Hopefully, he's OK, of course.  At times, on TV, he could come across as rather arrogant and might not be the most pleasant of teammates, I don't know.    Maybe he learned something?  On physical talent alone, you might not view him as an NFl QB.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2024, 06:17:53 AM

McDonald's to sell Krispy Kreme doughnuts nationwide by end of 2026 (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/26/mcdonalds-to-sell-krispy-kreme-doughnuts-nationwide-by-end-of-2026.html)

Every time I come back to the US, I notice our relative obesity more than when I stay here.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2024, 06:20:17 AM

Putin looks to exploit Moscow terror attack | The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/international/4554964-putin-moscow-terror-attack-ukraine/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on March 26, 2024, 08:33:39 AM

Baltimore Bridge collapse is awful.    I-695 gone.  Incredible video.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2024, 08:48:54 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 09:37:17 PM

Anyone here own or have fired a Staccato?

https://staccato2011.com

Yeah. My buddy has this one (on like it). Nice action. Recoil is good.


Staccato P - Staccato 2011

W (https://staccato2011.com/products/staccato-p)hy do you ask?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2024, 08:54:38 AM

Quote from: MarqHusker on March 26, 2024, 08:33:39 AM

Baltimore Bridge collapse is awful.    I-695 gone.  Incredible video. 

Unreal. Bridges need to better fortified, like the new(ish) Sunshine Bridge over Tampa Bay.

Do you remember that collapse? Holy crap...


Sunshine Skyway Bridge - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunshine_Skyway_Bridge#:~:text=On the morning of May 9%2C 1980%2C the,a Greyhound Bus) plunged into Tampa Bay.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2024, 09:13:03 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2024, 08:48:54 AM

Yeah. My buddy has this one (on like it). Nice action. Recoil is good.


Staccato P - Staccato 2011

W (https://staccato2011.com/products/staccato-p)hy do you ask?

I'm reading a book (again) by John Sanford.  The main character is one Letty Davenport, and she carries one.  They cost about $2500 apparently.  I was idly curious as to how they were "better" than say a Sig, or even a Taurus.  I guess it's a bit like a car, a Honda will get you there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2024, 09:16:02 AM

S&W for me. You can get a nice 9mm for $650 or so.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2024, 09:26:12 AM

I have a couple Taurus 9 mm, but I have not shot in years.  I should get them out and clean them.

I have a .357 up there also, internal hammer.  It's a small one and kicks.  And a .22 Ruger target pistol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2024, 09:29:04 AM

This old stock ticker DJT (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/25/truth-social-owner-trump-media-will-begin-trading-under-djt-ticker-tuesday.html) is new again for Donald Trump (https://www.cnbc.com/donald-trump/)’s social media (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/23/trump-says-i-love-truth-social-after-dwac-stock-plunges-.html) company.
Trump Media & Technology Group (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/DWAC/) is set to begin trading Tuesday on the NASDAQ stock market with a stock ticker the former president (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/25/trump-new-york-fraud-bond-cut-to-175-million-in-appeal-from-454-million.html) debuted nearly three decades ago.

Trump launched his publicly traded hotel and casino company to great fanfare in 1995 (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/30/watch-trumps-casino-company-ipo-in-1995-then-file-for-bankruptcy.html), only to see it ignominiously delisted from the New York Stock Exchange nine years later.

Trump Media’s merger (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/22/trump-social-dwac-stock-falls-after-merger-approved.html) with the shell company Digital World Acquisition Corp. was completed Monday, allowing it to become publicly traded, it added almost $4 billion in paper profits to Donald Trump’s net worth.

Trump Media’s market valuation could be $6 billion at Tuesday’s opening bell, despite the company reporting less than $3.5 million — that’s million, not billion — in revenue over the first three quarters of 2023.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2024, 09:30:53 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/9kEWj5u.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 26, 2024, 09:34:47 AM

An oldie, this one is reviewed and studied in every physics class of the past 80 years...



(https://i.imgur.com/Q5r60Xd.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/uYxGKv4.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 26, 2024, 09:40:03 AM

I have a few handguns. But my favorite is my Israeli Arms Baby Dessert Eagle 9mm. I am a much better shot with that gun than I am with most any other I've tried.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2024, 09:42:16 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 26, 2024, 09:34:47 AM

An oldie, this one is reviewed and studied in every physics class of the past 80 years...



(https://i.imgur.com/Q5r60Xd.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/uYxGKv4.png)

I really don't like driving over bridges. But Florida has a lot of bridges. A LOT.

Been on that Sunshine bridge a few times. That thing is up in the sky!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 26, 2024, 09:46:20 AM

Quote from: MarqHusker on March 26, 2024, 08:33:39 AM

Baltimore Bridge collapse is awful.    I-695 gone.  Incredible video. 

That's just unbelievable.  Stunning video.

Including a twitter link below, if you posted one @MarqHusker (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=41) , it didn't come through on my view.


https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1772514015790477667?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1772514015790477667%7Ctwgr%5E1f8b1956c1f968ddf7751c0fd0bde034f26f3d6e%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fx.com%2Fsentdefender%2Fstatus%2F1772514015790477667%3Fs%3D4626t%3DcH-LvFrUDSIxqTdoyXUTxg

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2024, 09:49:26 AM

That is chilling.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 26, 2024, 09:50:11 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2024, 09:42:16 AM

I really don't like driving over bridges. But Florida has a lot of bridges. A LOT.

Been on that Sunshine bridge a few times. That thing is up in the sky!

The Mississippi river bridge in Baton Rouge is pretty terrifying.  @MikeDeTiger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1588)  tells me it's about to come down at any moment, and I don't doubt him.  No matter what time of day, you can count on about 45 minutes to an hour of traffic through there eastbound, where 3 interstate lanes inexplicably collapse to one lane on the other side of the bridge.

(https://i.imgur.com/9aJ11Ih.jpeg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2024, 09:54:23 AM

I wouldn't like that one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 26, 2024, 09:56:24 AM

Here's another view of video from Baltimore.  It looks like the cargo ship lost power at least twice.  Also, this video shows pretty light traffic on the bridge, it was very late at night after all, would have been far worse at rush hour I'm assuming.

https://twitter.com/MonicaCrowley/status/1772589971662094629?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1772589971662094629%7Ctwgr%5E4fa1522a213f5a83f81f0b6bcb4f89d9fc6c2e94%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FMonicaCrowley%2Fstatus%2F1772589971662094629%3Ft%3DSPEBThaxVk-tpi20gcVxbw26s%3D19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2024, 09:57:47 AM

Presidents have been promising to fix this bridge for years. Now it's Biden's turn. (nbcnews.com) (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/joe-biden/presidents-have-been-promising-fix-bridge-years-now-it-s-n1263684)

This one in Cincy is critical, and functionally obsolete.  



(https://i.imgur.com/qpSnfZE.jpeg)

It is rather shocking how fast that bridge collapsed in Baltimore.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2024, 09:59:19 AM

Could you imagine being one of the lucky ones who made it across by mere seconds?

Holy crap. Gives me the chills.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2024, 10:01:05 AM

Here you can see how well the Sunshine bridge is fortified.

(https://i.imgur.com/EHdhKZz.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 26, 2024, 10:16:31 AM

Yeah, the one in Baltimore didn't seem to have any protective fortifications around that pylon base, unless the ship just crashed through them?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2024, 10:19:04 AM

"We" clearly need to increase spending on infrastructure in this country.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2024, 10:21:46 AM

Congress recently passed a bill on that.  The thing is when you divide the monies among 50 states, and thousands of needed projects, you dilute it to nearly nothing.

You get a few sidewalks and maybe some road gets paved.

One approach would be to raise the gasoline tax, which is anchored at 18.5 cents per gallon of gasoline not even adjusted for inflation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 26, 2024, 10:22:38 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2024, 10:19:04 AM

"We" clearly need to increase spending on infrastructure in this country.

We probably need to request aid from Russia cause we are giving all our money to Ukraine

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2024, 10:25:02 AM

Biden pulls even with Trump as economic view improves slightly, CNBC survey shows (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/26/biden-pulls-even-with-trump-as-economic-view-improves-slightly-cnbc-survey-shows.html)

National polls of course are irrelevant (aside from its being March).  The only ones that matter are those in pivotal BG states, you can't include CA and NY and make any sense of Nat polls.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 26, 2024, 11:05:45 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 26, 2024, 10:25:02 AM

Biden pulls even with Trump as economic view improves slightly, CNBC survey shows (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/26/biden-pulls-even-with-trump-as-economic-view-improves-slightly-cnbc-survey-shows.html)

National polls of course are irrelevant (aside from its being March).  The only ones that matter are those in pivotal BG states, you can't include CA and NY and make any sense of Nat polls.

CNBC claims Brandon and Trump are even.  If CNBC says it then it must be true

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2024, 11:11:07 AM

A  lot of folks like polls when they have their guy ahead, and disparage those that don't.  My point is this poll really doesn't matter except perhaps for a bit of imagery.  This site has some useful analysis, I think.

Trump is leading the polls, but there's plenty of time for Biden to catch up - ABC News (go.com) (https://abcnews.go.com/538/trump-leading-polls-plenty-time-biden-catch/story?id=108062780)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 26, 2024, 11:21:00 AM

I don't have "a guy" and I don't like any poll that would have Trump OR Biden ahead.

It's just unbelievable to me that the idiots in both of the parties can't come up with someone better.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2024, 11:22:49 AM

"We" more or less choose the candidate, sort of ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2024, 11:23:48 AM

This is good other news.

https://www.wsj.com/politics/florida-passes-law-banning-social-media-for-minors-under-14-abae4ce3?st=ekt8pl5wvsq4w6y&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2024, 11:24:30 AM

How can that be enforced?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 26, 2024, 11:29:57 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 26, 2024, 11:22:49 AM

"We" more or less choose the candidate, sort of ...

You got a mouse in your pocket?

I have no voice in that decision.  It ain't "we."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 26, 2024, 12:01:04 PM

Quote

Foreign investment flows into China shrink 19.9% in Jan-Feb

So a 20% reduction Year Over Year from Jan-Feb 2023, to Jan-Feb 2024.

And this is after an 8% reduction YoY from 2022 to 2023.


https://www.reuters.com/markets/asia/foreign-investment-flows-into-china-shrink-199-jan-feb-2024-03-22/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 26, 2024, 12:09:20 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 26, 2024, 11:21:00 AM

I don't have "a guy" and I don't like any poll that would have Trump OR Biden ahead.

It's just unbelievable to me that the idiots in both of the parties can't come up with someone better.

Yeah, but inevitable.

• If Biden was going to seek a second term, he was going to win the nomination. No mainstream alternatives are going to primary a sitting President from their own party. Doing so would be them admitting that the last 4 years have been a failure, and no party does that. 
• Trump sucks the air out of every room, every discussion, every media outlet. Whether it's good or bad, everything, all the time, is about Trump. When Trump skipped the primary debates the story was NEVER about what the people at the debates said, or even who they were, the story was about Trump skipping the debates. Even all the coverage of Trump's legal issues was starving the other candidates of attention. So the other candidates simply suffocated due to lack of oxygen. 

There was no way other than this that it would have played out.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2024, 12:13:42 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 26, 2024, 12:09:20 PM

Yeah, but inevitable.

• If Biden was going to seek a second term, he was going to win the nomination. No mainstream alternatives are going to primary a sitting President from their own party. Doing so would be them admitting that the last 4 years have been a failure, and no party does that.
• Trump sucks the air out of every room, every discussion, every media outlet. Whether it's good or bad, everything, all the time, is about Trump. When Trump skipped the primary debates the story was NEVER about what the people at the debates said, or even who they were, the story was about Trump skipping the debates. Even all the coverage of Trump's legal issues was starving the other candidates of attention. So the other candidates simply suffocated due to lack of oxygen.

There was no way other than this that it would have played out. 

I thought Scott, Ron D, and Vivek were the best among the challengers. I still have hope for them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 26, 2024, 12:22:48 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2024, 10:19:04 AM

"We" clearly need to increase spending on infrastructure in this country.

yeah, no shit.

instead we have to give billions of dollars every year in aid to an already very rich country- Israel- and build a port in Gaza so aid can be delivered so people won't starve to death when we could you know- just tell Israel to knock it the fck off and let aid trucks in...what a novel concept! And who knows how many hundreds of billions to Ukraine before it's all said and done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2024, 12:29:56 PM

The Camp David Accords secured annual aid to Israel, and Egypt, as part of the agreement.

As part of the agreement, the U.S. began economic and military aid to Egypt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Egypt#Military_cooperation), and political backing for its subsequent governments. From the Camp David peace accords in 1978 until 2000, the United States has subsidized Egypt's armed forces with over $38 billion worth of aid. Egypt receives about $1.3 billion annually.^{[17] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt–Israel_peace_treaty#cite_note-17)}

And if we redirected ALL foreign aid, it still would be a relative pittance.  That bridge in Cincinnati has a replacement cost nearing $3 billion, likely to go higher.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 26, 2024, 12:34:48 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 26, 2024, 11:21:00 AM

I don't have "a guy" and I don't like any poll that would have Trump OR Biden ahead.

It's just unbelievable to me that the idiots in both of the parties can't come up with someone better.

the idiots who run the Republican party tried to no avail. Trump was always going to win that primary. The idiots who run the Democratic party on the other hand are all-in on Biden, he's their guy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 26, 2024, 12:36:54 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2024, 11:23:48 AM

This is good other news.

https://www.wsj.com/politics/florida-passes-law-banning-social-media-for-minors-under-14-abae4ce3?st=ekt8pl5wvsq4w6y&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

think it's great news, young kids shouldn't be on social media. Texas law banning porn sites for under 18 year olds is also good if you ask me. 

From what I understand in Texas they are going to make people do age verification when they go to porn sites. Not sure how you enforce that social media ban in Florida though.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 26, 2024, 12:39:15 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 26, 2024, 12:01:04 PM

So a 20% reduction Year Over Year from Jan-Feb 2023, to Jan-Feb 2024.

And this is after an 8% reduction YoY from 2022 to 2023.


https://www.reuters.com/markets/asia/foreign-investment-flows-into-china-shrink-199-jan-feb-2024-03-22/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fwgVUfW_O4

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2024, 12:58:48 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/gKhFmJX.png)

Hmmm.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 26, 2024, 01:05:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 26, 2024, 12:29:56 PM

And if we redirected ALL foreign aid, it still would be a relative pittance.  That bridge in Cincinnati has a replacement cost nearing $3 billion, likely to go higher.

that's not exactly true. we run huge deficits here and are $34 trillion in debt. we need to make every single penny spent count- and take hair cuts and trim everywhere. we flat out don't have the money to be sending to Israel or Ukraine or anyone, we just don't have it.

And we wouldn't have to cash out any infrastructure projects like that bridge in Cincinnati, we would use said public funds that should go here- but we send overseas like morons- to finance them.  

Israel will have received something like $350 billion in foreign aid from the US (adjusted for inflation) since the close of WWII by the time their current MOU runs out in 2028. By far the largest of any foreign nation. Israel is a very rich highly developed nation- we don't need to be giving them aid for jack. They can buy weapons from the US with their cold hard cash if they need them. And not only do we give them aid, but they have been in the top 5 of countries we give aid virtually every year since the 1960's.

Israel receives around $4 billion a year in aid from US and that's just baseline. There is often supplemental military aid sent as they are often bombing the living sh*t out of one of their neighbors and need more money from us to buy more bombs- and things that aren't counted in that aid like grants for r&d, missile defense (DoD doesn't report those figures), loan guarantees, etc.. Oh yeah not to mention the Biden admin has been trying to get an additional $17.6 billion in aid to Israel right now as we speak.

We flat out don't have the money to be throwing in the toilet and giving away to other nations (especially ones that are rich) when we have a million and one problems at home and run $1.7 trillion deficits.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2024, 01:09:13 PM

My point, simply, is that our infrastructure needs would cost a lot more than what we spend on foreign aid.  I thought that was clear in my post.

And of course, neither party would seriously cut foreign aid, nor come anywhere close to a balanced budget.  It's all some theoretical impracticable stuff.  Any actual spending solutions would guarantee the party in charge would not be for long.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2024, 01:49:53 PM

Interesting. First thing I thought of - redundancy and fortification. Sound like this bridge had neither.

Structural engineer 'surprised' cargo ship collapsed Baltimore bridge | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/media/structural-engineer-surprised-cargo-ship-able-take-baltimore-francis-scott-key-bridge)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 26, 2024, 03:58:18 PM

rapper Sean "Diddy" Combs aka Puff Daddy aka Puffy has his mansions in LA and Miami raided by the Department of Homeland Security as part of an ongoing sex trafficking investigation by federal authorities. Yikes.

He's worth about a billion dollars. Diddy has had like 5 civil suites filed against him in the past few months and lot of rumors about his awful behavior in the past. He's a known rip off artist who never credited or paid producers that made hit records for him at his company Bad Boy Records- basically took all the producer/writer credits from them and propelled that success in music into a billion dollar fortune. There has always been talk about him possibly being complicit in the murder of rival rapper Tupac Shakur as well. And let's not forget he probably shot someone at a nightclub when he was dating Jennifer Lopez back in 1999 and got off scot-free.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/sean-diddy-combs-allegations-b2518917.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 26, 2024, 06:46:06 PM

That video of the bridge strike and collapse is terrifying. 

When i saw the video of this I immediately thought of the first Sunshine Skyway Bridge strike. None of the dolphins around that new one were even in anyone's mind when the first one was designed. 

The only "it could have been worse" moment is that it was at 130AM instead of having a deck full of cars. 

That's going to be a long, painful recovery.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 26, 2024, 07:00:21 PM

Took 7 years for the Sunshine recovery.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 26, 2024, 08:47:17 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 26, 2024, 06:46:06 PM

That video of the bridge strike and collapse is terrifying.

Supposedly sent out a Mayday right before striking the bridge,seems they were in immediate damge control for crap operations. National news reported they had previous accident hitting a wharf or sum such.

This from Reuters:

*A later inspection in June 2023 carried out in San Antonio in Chile found the vessel had "propulsion and auxiliary machinery" deficiencies, according to data on the public Equasis website, which provides information on ships.*

That was less than a year ago

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 26, 2024, 08:54:01 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 26, 2024, 12:22:48 PM

yeah, no shit.

instead we have to give billions of dollars every year in aid to an already very rich country- Israel- and build a port in Gaza so aid can be delivered so people won't starve to death when we could you know- just tell Israel to knock it the fck off and let aid trucks in...what a novel concept! And who knows how many hundreds of billions to Ukraine before it's all said and done.

Uhhhh, we're not taking the money from one to do the other, lol.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 26, 2024, 08:57:04 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 26, 2024, 01:05:29 PM

Israel will have received something like $350 billion in foreign aid from the US (adjusted for inflation) since the close of WWII by the time their current MOU runs out in 2028. By far the largest of any foreign nation. Israel is a very rich highly developed nation- we don't need to be giving them aid for jack. They can buy weapons from the US with their cold hard cash if they need them. And not only do we give them aid, but they have been in the top 5 of countries we give aid virtually every year since the 1960's.

This is a big part of why Israel still exists.  
It's probably worth it to them.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 26, 2024, 09:08:32 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 26, 2024, 08:54:01 PM

Uhhhh, we're not taking the money from one to do the other, lol. 

Uhhh, yes the fck we are. We're taking money away from the American taxpayer and spending it on- not the American taxpayer. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 26, 2024, 09:11:45 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 26, 2024, 08:57:04 PM

This is a big part of why Israel still exists. 
It's probably worth it to them. 

cool story? why should I or any American for that matter care if that is a big part of why Israel exists or if it's it worth it to them? Lol.

Israel may have needed that aid in the past, they don't now. Economic aid to Israel has pretty much ceased since the early 2000s. It's 99.9% military aid now. Israel is now a thriving, very rich country. They can write checks or borrow money from private capital if they want to buy American weapons that they need to commit it's illegal occupation, war crimes and slaughter of civilians en masse. Why is the American taxpayer paying for this?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 26, 2024, 09:24:17 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 26, 2024, 09:11:45 PM

cool story? why should I or any American for that matter care if that is a big part of why Israel exists or if it's it worth it to them? Lol.

Because people are people.  You're letting imaginary lines dictate your thinking.  I'll chalk it up to that instead of the ugly alternative.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 26, 2024, 09:24:56 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 26, 2024, 09:08:32 PM

Uhhh, yes the fck we are. We're taking money away from the American taxpayer and spending it on- not the American taxpayer.

Yeeesh.
This isn't even a 2-dimensional understanding of things.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 26, 2024, 09:28:54 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 26, 2024, 09:24:17 PM

Because people are people.  You're letting imaginary lines dictate your thinking.  I'll chalk it up to that instead of the ugly alternative. 

I let one thing and one thing alone dictate my thinking. what is best for the people of THIS COUNTRY. period. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 26, 2024, 09:29:51 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 26, 2024, 09:24:56 PM

Yeeesh.
This isn't even a 2-dimensional understanding of things. 

JFC guy. where do you think the money comes from? who ultimately foots the bill? the American taxpayer. Again, why is this something that the American taxpayer should be paying for? newsflash: it isn't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 26, 2024, 10:34:16 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 26, 2024, 09:28:54 PM

I let one thing and one thing alone dictate my thinking. what is best for the people of THIS COUNTRY. period.

I'd pray for you, but....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 27, 2024, 01:15:17 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 26, 2024, 09:28:54 PM

I let one thing and one thing alone dictate my thinking. what is best for the people of THIS COUNTRY. period.

youre not alone

We need to do more of that

from immigration policy to foreign aid

currently the whole world is laughing at us

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 07:07:21 AM

Before 1967, Israel got relatively little from the US.  Their military gear was mostly French or British based stuff.  The Six Day War changed that.  Egypt et al. was in the Soviet sphere, and we wanted to counter that, Israel was a proxy.

Over time, Israel became a political focal point.  Evangelicals for various reasons decided it was worth supporting, as did most Jews, both groups usually voting for the other party in bloc, so no politician could afford to alienate his "side".  Camp David then secured aid to Israel AND Egypt.

I personally see some value in foreign aid, value for Americans.  This is a global economy, things that happen over there have an impact on us here.  And it really is a small part of overall spending (which I agree should be cut, but won't be, and taxes should go up, but that won't happen either to any real degree).  So, focus on foreign aid, to me, is focusing on your third string long snapper when your QB room is a problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 27, 2024, 07:50:20 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 26, 2024, 09:28:54 PM

I let one thing and one thing alone dictate my thinking. what is best for the people of THIS COUNTRY. period.

Sometimes the best for this country is to help others, but I think "we" go too far much of the time. It's maddening to see how much "we" waste (here, and overseas).

My priorities:

1. Close the borders.
2. Get hold of the fentanyl problem, which will help...
3. Solve the homeless problem.
4. Strengthen our military (enough with the DEI crap).
5. Stop printing money.
6. Drain the swamp.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 07:52:45 AM

I doubt any of that really happens no matter who is elected.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 27, 2024, 08:09:24 AM

Those are my priorities. I don't give a crap who executes them.

I know one guy who would try his best. My Governor.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 27, 2024, 08:23:16 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 27, 2024, 07:50:20 AM

1. Close the borders.

Romanian mob is coming for your debit cards, with ATM-style skimmers now at self-checkouts: authorities warn | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/romanian-mob-coming-debit-cards-atm-style-skimmers-now-self-checkouts)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 08:26:32 AM

It's pretty easy for any European to "visit" the US and then simply stay here.  I think nearly every other country checks your passport when you LEAVE, we don't (the airline checks to see you have one).

Closed borders sound nice and all, but a bit more detail as to how would be useful too I think.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 27, 2024, 08:34:42 AM

The article cites details of how they are getting in. It's no coincidence that a lot of this crime is occurring in... California.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 09:06:21 AM

I bought my wife some new earrings on the cruise, they weren't that expensive, and she liked them, fine.  Yesterday, she told me she was cleaning them and dropped one into the sink drain.  Bummer.

She took everything out under the sink and fortunately the piping is the PVC "quick" connection stuff, so I did recover the ring.  Thhe U trap was filthy, gray scum on it, and smelly.  I mean to drop some bleach down the sinks hoping to clear that but forgot to do it.  I did wipe some of it off by finger.  And washed my fingers a lot.

They are studs, I don't know why I called them "rings".  Whatever.

I'm a plumber now, and a lawyer, and a worst selling author.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 27, 2024, 09:09:26 AM

Open the borders

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 27, 2024, 09:13:26 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 27, 2024, 09:09:26 AM

Open the borders

Yes, to people who want to legally cross, possibly obtain a path to citizenship, and come with good intentions.

I'm all for it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 27, 2024, 09:14:44 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 27, 2024, 09:13:26 AM

Yes, to people who want to legally cross, possibly obtain a path to citizenship, and come with good intentions.

I'm all for it.

I wish our government was. Both parties are intent on reducing legal immigration and making us all poorer as a result

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 09:16:23 AM

How are both parties trying to reduce legal immigration?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 27, 2024, 09:18:58 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 09:16:23 AM

How are both parties trying to reduce legal immigration?

Trump's presidency was quite hostile to legal immigration, and he is running for president again and I have seen no evidence he plans to change. The Dems would seem to be more open to it but seem mostly interested in combatting illegal immigration in a more humanitarian way. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 27, 2024, 09:22:56 AM

I don't think #45 was against legal immigration. If he was, well, his wife...

Anyway, I think he knows we need positive legal immigration. Hell, even his own enterprise depends on legal migrant workers. We need those people to do the jobs most people don't want to do. Farming is top of mind.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 27, 2024, 09:23:35 AM

Interesting.

China's Xi issues a positive message in meeting with U.S. business leaders as relations improve (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-s-xi-issues-a-positive-message-in-meeting-with-u-s-business-leaders-as-relations-improve/ar-BB1kCCN8?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=5983552df41942d89307b8d85155dc9b&ei=16)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 09:25:35 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 27, 2024, 09:18:58 AM

Trump's presidency was quite hostile to legal immigration, and he is running for president again and I have seen no evidence he plans to change. The Dems would seem to be more open to it but seem mostly interested in combatting illegal immigration in a more humanitarian way.

I don't know specifically what he tried to do to limit legal immigration, but that would be only one party if he did.  Being "hostile" to a thing is a sentiment, not an action.

What specific actions did Trump take hostile to LEGAL immigration?  He did limit the visitation rights of folks from a few countries, but that isn't immigration.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 27, 2024, 09:44:49 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 09:25:35 AM

I don't know specifically what he tried to do to limit legal immigration, but that would be only one party if he did.  Being "hostile" to a thing is a sentiment, not an action.

What specific actions did Trump take hostile to LEGAL immigration?  He did limit the visitation rights of folks from a few countries, but that isn't immigration.

Hostile = unfriendly, antagonistic, opposed

https://www.cato.org/blog/president-trump-reduced-legal-immigration-he-did-not-reduce-illegal-immigration#:~:text=Trump%20was%20wildly%20successful%20in,first%20term%20through%20November%202020.

President Trump entered the White House with the goal of reducing legal immigration by [color=var(--bs-link-color)]63 percent[/color] (https://www.cato.org/blog/trump-against-legal-immigration-too). Trump was wildly successful in reducing legal immigration. By November 2020, the Trump administration reduced the number of green cards issued to people abroad by at least 418,453 and the number of non‐immigrant visas by at least 11,178,668 during his first term through November 2020. President Trump also entered the White House with the goal of eliminating illegal immigration but Trump oversaw a virtual collapse in interior immigration enforcement and the stabilization of the illegal immigrant population. Thus, Trump succeeded in reduce legal immigration and failed to eliminate illegal immigration.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 27, 2024, 09:48:19 AM

Lies,damn lies and statistics - what's going on the last 3 years could be disasterous

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 09:55:15 AM

So what are Dems doing to limit legal immigration?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 27, 2024, 09:58:43 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 09:55:15 AM

So what are Dems doing to limit legal immigration?

I don't know that they are actively preventing it, but they seem to be campaigning more on closing the border compared to much else

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 27, 2024, 10:00:46 AM

Governor Abbott would get it done.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 27, 2024, 10:01:51 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 27, 2024, 09:58:43 AM

I don't know that they are actively preventing it, but they seem to be campaigning more on closing the border compared to much else

If they are its only because they know the border situation will bite them in the ass come November

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 10:02:29 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 27, 2024, 09:58:43 AM

I don't know that they are actively preventing it, but they seem to be campaigning more on closing the border compared to much else

OK, closing the border to legal immigration, is that their focus?

I think Biden is "campaigning" on the economy more than anything else, but I admit to not paying much attention.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 10:05:25 AM

Article: The “Trump Effect” on Legal Immigrati.. | migrationpolicy.org (https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/trump-effect-immigration-reality)

I don't know if the above is entirely accurate.  COVID obviously was a large factor in limiting legal immigration.

The number of people receiving green cards, either through adjustments of status of immigrants already in the United States or through visa processing abroad, has remained remarkably steady for the past ten years (see Figure 1). There have been two exceptions: an uptick in FY 2016, occurring in a relatively unchanged policy landscape from previous years, and a sharp decline in FY 2020, in the midst of the coronavirus outbreak. While FY 2020 numbers cannot yet be definitively compared with past years, as full-year data on green cards issued within the United States has not yet been released, significant drops are already apparent. The number of green cards issued within the country in the first three quarters of FY 2020 (October 2019 through June 2020) dropped 25 percent compared with the same period in FY 2019. And the 62,000 issued in the third quarter of FY 2020, at the height of COVID-19 lockdowns, was less than half the 153,000 issued during the third quarter of FY 2019. As mentioned above, the number of green cards issued abroad in the full year dropped 45 percent. 

(https://i.imgur.com/A4VDPuv.png)

I can't think of any positions by Democrats that would reduce legal immigration.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 27, 2024, 10:08:47 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 09:55:15 AM

So what are Dems doing to limit legal immigration?

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 27, 2024, 09:58:43 AM

I don't know that they are actively preventing it, but they seem to be campaigning more on closing the border compared to much else

They effing rolled out the red carpet, now they want help pulling the rug out,SMDH. Both sides of the political Isle need a meteor strike - the quicker the better. Hell I'll even settle for Krakatoa eruption or New Madrid quake :banghead:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 10:10:04 AM

Bad News For Employers, Immigrants And H-1B Visas In Second Trump Term (forbes.com) (https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2024/01/17/bad-news-for-employers-immigrants-and-h-1b-visas-in-second-trump-term/?sh=1f1d1ad33583)

A second Donald Trump term would bring new restrictions on legal immigration that would affect employers and likely drive more work and tech talent out of the United States. Trump’s actions during his first term, his rhetoric during campaign rallies and statements by allies signal unwelcome news for companies that rely on foreign-born scientists and engineers to grow and innovate. With Donald Trump winning the Iowa Caucus (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/01/15/us/elections/results-iowa-caucus.html) and leading Joe Biden in some polls (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4318846-trump-expands-lead-over-biden-in-2024-match-up-poll/), employers may wish to include the prospect of a Trump presidency in their contingency plans.

I concur that Trump talks about limiting LEGAL immigration.  I don't think that is a broader Repubican party position (to the extent that is different from Trump).  And I don't think it's the position of any Democrat I know of.

I personally am "pro" legal immigration and think our current system needs a complete overhaul.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 10:10:55 AM

Talk of "closing the border", to me, is completely separate from limiting legal immigration.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 27, 2024, 10:20:34 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 09:25:35 AM

What specific actions did Trump take hostile to LEGAL immigration?  He did limit the visitation rights of folks from a few countries, but that isn't immigration.

He gutted the system that processed immigration.

Earlier this year, he instructed his lackeys in the House to spike the border deal.

And you are more likely to win $7 playing the Powerball than to come to the US legally. From the Cato Institute:

https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/why-legal-immigration-nearly-impossible

Closing the border accomplishes nothing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 10:27:09 AM

That Cato article seemed misleading to me.  Of course, a lot of folks WANT to come to the US, no doubt, and relatively few immigrate here legally.  That isn't a shock, nor is it something caused by Trump. The issue would be how many of those trying to become legal immigrants are thwarted, not those not trying but wishing.

It is entirely possible to immigrate here legally, it's just not that easy, it wasn't preTrump either.  The border deal spiked by Trump was not about legal immigration unless there was something in it I missed.

But, if we stipulate that Trump limited LEGAL immigration, I'm still wondering what Democrats want to do to limit it as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 27, 2024, 10:29:49 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 10:10:55 AM

Talk of "closing the border", to me, is completely separate from limiting legal immigration.

I find them very related. I rather admired Obama's approach, which was to have policies with other countries, as well as proactively affirming "illegal" immigrants who arrived as children while also being pretty harsh to illegal immigrants who committed crimes. Trump's policy was "we're full." Biden's policy is...not locking up illegal immigrants in cages? I'm unsure to be honest.

In any event, neither party is making any case for expanding illegal immigration even in the face of labor shortages and inflation. Kind of nuts if you ask me, but I get that closing the border is the flavor of the month for politicians.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2024, 10:35:09 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 27, 2024, 09:14:44 AM

I wish our government was. Both parties are intent on reducing legal immigration and making us all poorer as a result

I don't blame you because the money on BOTH sides of the aisle tell you this all the time. They even buy studies that purport to "prove" it, but this is wildly untrue.

The welfare state and benefits like Social Security and Medicare make nearly any additions to the pool of recipients a net negative for us all economically.

Social Security and Medicare are substantially underwater. Ignore immigrants for a moment and just consider the economics of those programs for people born here:

• Social Security charges 6.2% of your wages.
• Medicare charges 1.45% of your wages.
• If you are self-employed you pay double that.
• If you work for someone else they pay the other half.

Thus, the total collected by the systems is 12.4% of earnings for Social Security and 2.9% of earnings for Medicare.

The two programs are theoretically separate but in practice they function together so, in total the Federal Government collects 15.3% of earned income for Social Security and Medicare.

As already mentioned both programs are massively underwater so that 15.3% is nowhere close to sufficient. This is despite the fact that each American pays it from their very first day flipping burgers at McDonald's in their teens until their very last day passing out carts at Wal-Mart in their old age (McDonald's and Wal-Mart are merely examples, the point is that Americans pay $1.53 of every $10 they earn from cradle to grave into SS/Medicare).


Since both systems are drowning in red ink we know that the average American isn't paying enough into the systems to cover their own costs.

Now back to immigrants:
Since we already know that the average American is a net drain in SS/Medicare, we also know that adding additional average Americans can only make those problems worse. You can't lose money on each person and make it up on volume, math doesn't work that way.

In theory we could benefit from high earning immigrants so long as their earnings are sufficient but there are additional problems spawned by immigration. The first is age. Even if SS/Medicare had some combination of higher rates or lower benefits such that the average American did pay for themselves, the numbers would still only work for immigrants who came here right at the start of their working lives. Anybody older than that couldn't possibly catch up without earnings way above average.

A prospective immigrant in their early 20's who has a job lined up with a six figure salary *MIGHT* pay for themselves but all other immigrants both legal AND illegal are a net drain on the economy. Anybody who tells you otherwise is either ignorant, lying, or a shill working for the Koch brothers or some similar person or entity.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 10:35:17 AM

To me, "closing the border" (while a bit vague) means limiting illegal immigration, unrelated to legal immigration.  It means things like "build a wall" etc. and enforce border restrictions on crossings by ILLEGALS.

And I don't see Democrats nor "mainstream" Republicans wanting to reduce LEGAL immigration.  I agree Trump appears to want to reduce both.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 27, 2024, 10:35:24 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 27, 2024, 10:29:49 AM

I find them very related. I rather admired Obama's approach, which was to have policies with other countries, as well as proactively affirming "illegal" immigrants who arrived as children while also being pretty harsh to illegal immigrants who committed crimes. Trump's policy was "we're full." Biden's policy is...not locking up illegal immigrants in cages? I'm unsure to be honest.

In any event, neither party is making any case for expanding illegal immigration even in the face of labor shortages and inflation. Kind of nuts if you ask me, but I get that closing the border is the flavor of the month for politicians.

Obama locked immigrants in cages, and he deported far more than anyone wants to believe.

BOLD: 100 percent agree.

We need immigration reform and will likely never get it - just like we will never get abortion codified. We all know the reasons.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on March 27, 2024, 10:36:34 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 27, 2024, 07:50:20 AM

Sometimes the best for this country is to help others, but I think "we" go too far much of the time. It's maddening to see how much "we" waste (here, and overseas).

My priorities:

1. Close the borders.
2. Get hold of the fentanyl problem, which will help...
3. Solve the homeless problem.
4. Strengthen our military (enough with the DEI crap).
5. Stop printing money.
6. Drain the swamp.

1. Close the borders.
Simple enough, IMO.  Enforce the laws we already have, stop the whole amnesty ridiculousness, fine employers who hire illegals en masse, Put up a fence where it can do real good, hire more border patrol, increase penalties and fines for those caught.

2. Get hold of the fentanyl problem, which will help...
End the war on Drugs, legalize, tax, and regulate.  

3. Solve the homeless problem.
IMO, homeless problem is really a drug problem. 
4. Strengthen our military (enough with the DEI crap).
I'd prefer a smaller, more capable military that is well equipped. What good is it to have all the best equipment if you can't afford ammo and bankrupting the nation. 

5. Stop printing money.
Pass a constitutional amendment that Reps can't run for reelection if the deficit exceeds a certain level.  Link it to GDP, or whatever metric fits the cause the best.  

6. Drain the swamp.
Nobody can do this.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 10:38:51 AM

I think some folks are conflating LEGAL versus ILLEGAL.  I doubt many here support the latter, most probably think the former is needed (I do).

We could debate all year and then some how to change the "System", but I agree Congress is unable to get much of anything done.


A person can be for legal immigration and against the other kind.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 27, 2024, 10:39:20 AM

Quote from: Gigem on March 27, 2024, 10:36:34 AM

6. Drain the swamp.
Nobody can do this. 

(https://i.imgur.com/GUWBKAk.jpeg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 10:39:47 AM

Quote from: Gigem on March 27, 2024, 10:36:34 AM

1. Close the borders.
Simple enough, IMO.  Enforce the laws we already have, stop the whole amnesty ridiculousness, fine employers who hire illegals en masse, 

The amnesty ridiculousness is codified in US law.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 27, 2024, 10:59:57 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 10:39:47 AM

The amnesty ridiculousness is codified in US law.

Which can be changed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 11:01:36 AM

Sure, but he posted this:

Enforce the laws we already have, stop the whole amnesty ridiculousness

And of course I have minimal hope for Congress to adjust the laws sensibly no matter who is President.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 27, 2024, 11:10:58 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 27, 2024, 10:35:24 AM

Obama locked immigrants in cages, and he deported far more than anyone wants to believe.

Obama was the deporter in chief. He deported 2x as many illegals in his first term as President than Trump did in his. Obama deported more people than any President in history.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 27, 2024, 11:15:37 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 10:10:55 AM

Talk of "closing the border", to me, is completely separate from limiting legal immigration.

agreed. any country has to be able to control it's borders. we have chaos at our southern border, not control.

legal immigration is a necessary and vital part of this country and a huge part of what has made it so great. we literally would not have a country without it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 27, 2024, 11:18:56 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 10:35:17 AM

To me, "closing the border" (while a bit vague) means limiting illegal immigration, unrelated to legal immigration.  It means things like "build a wall" etc. and enforce border restrictions on crossings by ILLEGALS.

And I don't see Democrats nor "mainstream" Republicans wanting to reduce LEGAL immigration.

The top part should have always been enforced. What gets me is how/when government agencies proccess illegals into receiving benefits if they in fact are not citizens?Being too lazy or stoopid to apply properly is not what Emma Lazarus was referring to at the feet of Lady Liberty

 Don't continually hand them shit they haven't earned by at least applying and starting the process. Squatting and dropping a child isn't the taxpayers problem.Sent them back,but if the damn border was secured,wall was in place and secured by force as any soveign nation should this still would be a problem

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 11:22:34 AM

I crossed our border last week, it clearly wasn't "open" for me anyway.  And that was in Texas.  (It took maybe 10 minutes standing in line.)

Full disclosure, I think most here know I'm married to a legal immigrant (and US citizen).  I also hired a fair number of immigrants back in the day, going through the green card process a few times (greatly abetted by lawyers).  

I have stamps on my passport for most countries I visited but not the US (and not Canada I think).  The stamp in Japan and Korea is an actual sticky thingee.  They check you on the way out too.  There is one stamp for Oman, the most obscure place I've visited.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 11:25:57 AM

I really doubt a President Trump would do much more than say Obama in reducing illegal border crossings. I do think some things Biden said early on stimulated it greatly.  

The amnesty thing as noted is in our code (as well as international law, which really isn't a thing).  

Most of what I hear politicians SAY I treat as guff, not reality, pandering to the base, which doesn't include me.  

I also don't think Democrats want to limit LEGAL immigration, nor do some Republicans (Koch was mentioned).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 27, 2024, 11:26:20 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 27, 2024, 07:50:20 AM

Sometimes the best for this country is to help others, but I think "we" go too far much of the time. It's maddening to see how much "we" waste (here, and overseas).

100%. i'm all for helping others, don't get me wrong. we unfortunately most often don't help others that really need it- and much of our help is not economic & development. unfortunately most of our "help" is sowing discord and discontent or even overthrowing gov'ts we don't like and giving rich countries free money to buy weapons from us. this helps no one but us defense contractors and us multi-nationals only causes problems and death and destruction. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 27, 2024, 11:26:56 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 27, 2024, 11:15:37 AM

agreed. any country has to be able to control it's borders. we have chaos at our southern border, not control.

Then why did your man Trump order the bipartisan border deal shanked in the House? 

Getting the border control agencies the manpower and equipment they need to do said border enforcement had wholesale support from all quarters in the Senate.

This is not the argument you want to make.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 11:27:37 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 27, 2024, 11:26:56 AM

Then why did your man Trump order the bipartisan border deal shanked in the House?

I think it's pretty clear why, don't you think?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 27, 2024, 11:29:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 07:07:21 AM

Before 1967, Israel got relatively little from the US.  Their military gear was mostly French or British based stuff.  The Six Day War changed that.  Egypt et al. was in the Soviet sphere, and we wanted to counter that, Israel was a proxy.

Over time, Israel became a political focal point.  Evangelicals for various reasons decided it was worth supporting, as did most Jews, both groups usually voting for the other party in bloc, so no politician could afford to alienate his "side".  Camp David then secured aid to Israel AND Egypt.

I personally see some value in foreign aid, value for Americans.  This is a global economy, things that happen over there have an impact on us here.  And it really is a small part of overall spending (which I agree should be cut, but won't be, and taxes should go up, but that won't happen either to any real degree).  So, focus on foreign aid, to me, is focusing on your third string long snapper when your QB room is a problem.

yeah, I get the history. 

I definitely see value in foreign aid. Foreign military aid? Nah. Israel is a very wealthy country. They don't need $4 billion a year from us to buy our weapons. They can raise taxes on their civilians or raise debt and deficit spend like any other rich country. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 27, 2024, 11:34:20 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 27, 2024, 11:26:56 AM

Then why did your man Trump order the bipartisan border deal shanked in the House?

Getting the border control agencies the manpower and equipment they need to do said border enforcement had wholesale support from all quarters in the Senate.

This is not the argument you want to make.

Trump is not "my man".

He is just so clearly an INFINITELY better alternative to the fantastically corrupt, incompetent, diaper shitting, weak ineffective senile President we have now. In my opinion.

Biden has had 3 PLUS FCKING YEARS to try and get something done on illegal immigration at the border. He's only doing it right now because the election is in less than 8 months and he's way down in all the polls and illegal immigration is one of the top 2 priorities for virtually every American voter according to most polling. So spare me.

And it's quite obvious why the House shanked the deal. The Republicans don't want to give Biden any perceived "W's" before the election and they want him out. Both sides are assholes for this. Biden should've done something day one on the border instead of let it fester into the disaster it is. And the Republicans should've worked with him right now to get something done for America.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 27, 2024, 11:38:00 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 27, 2024, 09:23:35 AM

Interesting.

China's Xi issues a positive message in meeting with U.S. business leaders as relations improve (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-s-xi-issues-a-positive-message-in-meeting-with-u-s-business-leaders-as-relations-improve/ar-BB1kCCN8?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=5983552df41942d89307b8d85155dc9b&ei=16)

I say this with all sincerity, fck China. Sooner US companies get out, the better for this country.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on March 27, 2024, 11:40:07 AM

Biden wanted the immigration bill because it gave him more to process illegal immigrants, not curtail illegal immigration.   The Biden administration doesn't need any further law or funding to stop the disaster at the border.  They created the disaster all by themselves and can undue it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 11:40:26 AM

I figure foreign aid of whatever type is fungible.  If we send aid to buy food, it means the country could divert monies it spent on food to buying weapons.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on March 27, 2024, 11:43:07 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 27, 2024, 11:26:56 AM

Then why did your man Trump order the bipartisan border deal shanked in the House?

Getting the border control agencies the manpower and equipment they need to do said border enforcement had wholesale support from all quarters in the Senate.

This is not the argument you want to make.

The so called "Bipartisan Border deal" did nothing to stop illegal immigration. The money allocated was simply to process those that came across the border faster allowing for yet more aliens to be processed. I wrote to my congressman and senators begging them to vote no on this prior to hearing anything Trump had to say about it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 11:51:04 AM

"Bipartisan Border Deal: Key Details and Impact on US Immigration Law" (newsbusters.org) (https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/curtis-houck/2024/02/05/abc-cbs-nbc-go-all-out-fluff-senate-border-deal-omits-key-details?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwh4-wBhB3EiwAeJsppP56JS1DzBHeN11Qr1ttABZo7waldyZHPhtUEiZR4e5m0KzRg9yhhxoCfM8QAvD_BwE)

I don't know if this is accurate, but it does feature some funding to stop illegal immigration and changes some laws.  Maybe it wouldn't do enough, but it appears to have been able to do something.

“This is a massive package, $118 billion. That includes $20 billion for border security, sweeping immigration restrictions, including shutting down the border when migrant encounters reach 5,000 a day and making it difficult to claim asylum in the U.S.,” she added.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 27, 2024, 11:52:12 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 27, 2024, 11:34:20 AM

Trump is not "my man".

He is just so clearly an INFINITELY better alternative to the fantastically corrupt, incompetent, diaper shitting, weak ineffective senile President we have now. In my opinion.

Biden has had 3 PLUS FCKING YEARS to try and get something done on illegal immigration at the border. He's only doing it right now because the election is in less than 8 months and he's way down in all the polls and illegal immigration is one of the top 2 priorities for virtually every American voter according to most polling. So spare me.

And it's quite obvious why the House shanked the deal. The Republicans don't want to give Biden any perceived "W's" before the election and they want him out. Both sides are assholes for this. Biden should've done something day one on the border instead of let it fester into the disaster it is. And the Republicans should've worked with him right now to get something done for America.

There was other garbage tied to the deal that many didn't like.

They don't do deals. There is always shit attached to any piece of legislation - and both sides do it.

Drives me nuts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 11:52:53 AM

I'd note AOC was critical of the bill, somewhat vaguely.

AOC says bipartisan immigration bill would contribute to ‘worsening border crisis’ | The Independent (the-independent.com) (https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/aoc-ocasio-cortez-immigration-bill-border-b2491144.html)

“It also sets a very dangerous precedent to give Republicans everything they want on the border in exchange for temporary funds for Ukraine and Israel,” Ms Ocasio-Cortez said.
Ms Ocasio-Cortez isn’t the only Democrat coming out against the bill, standing in opposition to the Biden administration’s approval of the legislation.

Senator Alex Padilla of California, one of three Mexican-American Senators, criticised the fact that no Latino Democrats were included in the process.
“I think it was a missed opportunity to have some more thoughtful perspectives at the table,” he told The Independent. “So, I’m not surprised at the result.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 27, 2024, 11:57:22 AM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2024, 10:35:09 AM

I don't blame you because the money on BOTH sides of the aisle tell you this all the time. They even buy studies that purport to "prove" it, but this is wildly untrue.

The welfare state and benefits like Social Security and Medicare make nearly any additions to the pool of recipients a net negative for us all economically.

Social Security and Medicare are substantially underwater. Ignore immigrants for a moment and just consider the economics of those programs for people born here:

• Social Security charges 6.2% of your wages.
• Medicare charges 1.45% of your wages.
• If you are self-employed you pay double that.
• If you work for someone else they pay the other half.

Thus, the total collected by the systems is 12.4% of earnings for Social Security and 2.9% of earnings for Medicare.

The two programs are theoretically separate but in practice they function together so, in total the Federal Government collects 15.3% of earned income for Social Security and Medicare.

As already mentioned both programs are massively underwater so that 15.3% is nowhere close to sufficient. This is despite the fact that each American pays it from their very first day flipping burgers at McDonald's in their teens until their very last day passing out carts at Wal-Mart in their old age (McDonald's and Wal-Mart are merely examples, the point is that Americans pay $1.53 of every $10 they earn from cradle to grave into SS/Medicare).


Since both systems are drowning in red ink we know that the average American isn't paying enough into the systems to cover their own costs.

Now back to immigrants:
Since we already know that the average American is a net drain in SS/Medicare, we also know that adding additional average Americans can only make those problems worse. You can't lose money on each person and make it up on volume, math doesn't work that way.

In theory we could benefit from high earning immigrants so long as their earnings are sufficient but there are additional problems spawned by immigration. The first is age. Even if SS/Medicare had some combination of higher rates or lower benefits such that the average American did pay for themselves, the numbers would still only work for immigrants who came here right at the start of their working lives. Anybody older than that couldn't possibly catch up without earnings way above average.

A prospective immigrant in their early 20's who has a job lined up with a six figure salary *MIGHT* pay for themselves but all other immigrants both legal AND illegal are a net drain on the economy. Anybody who tells you otherwise is either ignorant, lying, or a shill working for the Koch brothers or some similar person or entity.

Wow, that sounds terrible. And we let Americans have CHILDREN adding more burden to this system? 

I heard about a country with a one-child policy... Perhaps we should try that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 27, 2024, 12:00:14 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 27, 2024, 11:57:22 AM

Wow, that sounds terrible. And we let Americans have CHILDREN adding more burden to this system?

I heard about a country with a one-child policy... Perhaps we should try that.

I think they did away with that policy. They have an aging population as a result.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 12:03:34 PM

Various items I've read suggest immigration, even illegal, is a net plus for our economy.  I realize they may well be false, I can't tell.  I think more legal immigrants would help our SS situation.  Bear in mind your SS benefits relate to how much you paid into the system over 35 years.  If you live longer, you do get back more than you put in of course.  

Japan has a MAJOR population crisis, they average 1.3 kids per couple, and the population is declining, and they basically don't allow immigration to any extent.  It is one factor that is limiting their economy.  My impression of Japan vicariously is that they are a declining country, not doing well at all.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 27, 2024, 12:12:11 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 27, 2024, 12:00:14 PM

I think they did away with that policy. They have an aging population as a result.

Yeah, they did away with that policy. 

And as you and CD point out, while medina thinks people are a net drain on an economy, failing to replace those people certainly seems to be a... Much worse drain on an economy. 

I was being flippant because I wanted to express the opposite position (more workers is a good thing for an economy) but didn't have the time to go into a longer economic argument. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 12:28:45 PM

If you don't replace your population over time, bad things happen.  I think if it's not growing at a decent rate, bad things happen.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 27, 2024, 12:29:41 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 12:28:45 PM

If you don't replace your population over time, bad things happen.  I think if it's not growing at a decent rate, bad things happen. 

Exhibit A is South Korea.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 12:34:22 PM

38(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/Flag_of_South_Korea.svg/23px-Flag_of_South_Korea.svg.png) South Korea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Korea)0.2340(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Flag_of_Thailand.svg/23px-Flag_of_Thailand.svg.png) Thailand (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thailand)0.2041(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fa/Flag_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China.svg/23px-Flag_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China.svg.png) China (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China)0.1842(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5b/Flag_of_Hong_Kong.svg/23px-Flag_of_Hong_Kong.svg.png) HKG (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong)0.1543(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/72/Flag_of_the_Republic_of_China.svg/23px-Flag_of_the_Republic_of_China.svg.png) Taiwan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan)0.0344(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/Flag_of_Maldives.svg/23px-Flag_of_Maldives.svg.png) Maldives (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maldives)-0.1745(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/9e/Flag_of_Japan.svg/23px-Flag_of_Japan.svg.png) Japan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan)-0.41

It's really Japan where it's a major issue today.  RoK is growing albeit slowly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2024, 12:34:27 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 27, 2024, 12:12:11 PM

Yeah, they did away with that policy.

And as you and CD point out, while medina thinks people are a net drain on an economy, failing to replace those people certainly seems to be a... Much worse drain on an economy.

I was being flippant because I wanted to express the opposite position (more workers is a good thing for an economy) but didn't have the time to go into a longer economic argument.

You are smarter than this. 

If we had a CFN community of 10 people who each earned an average of $150,000 our "GDP" would be $1.5M and our per-capita GDP would be $150k. If we added an immigrant who earns $40k our "GDP" would grow by $40k to $1,540,000 but our per-capita GDP would shrink to $140k. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2024, 12:37:51 PM

According to Google the fastest growing countries in the world are Rawanda, Ethiopia, and Guyana. Should we try to be more like them?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 12:38:58 PM

The per capita would shrink, but the total would increase.  The same is true in reverse if some higher wage earner retires.  Maybe these analyses are flawed, I can't tell, but broadly speaking, folks seem to think it's a net benefit.

The Effects of Immigration on the United States’ Economy — Penn Wharton Budget Model (upenn.edu) (https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2016/1/27/the-effects-of-immigration-on-the-united-states-economy)

Economists generally agree that the effects of immigration on the U.S. economy are broadly positive.

Immigrants, whether high- or low-skilled, legal or illegal, are unlikely to replace native-born workers or reduce their wages over the long-term, though they may cause some short-term dislocations in labor markets. Indeed, the experience of the last few decades suggests that immigration may actually have significant long-term benefits for the native-born, pushing them into higher-paying occupations and raising the overall pace of innovation and productivity growth. Moreover, as baby boomers have begun moving into retirement in advanced economies around the world, immigration is helping to keep America comparatively young and reducing the burden of financing retirement benefits for a growing elderly population. While natives bear some upfront costs for the provision of public services to immigrants and their families, the evidence suggests a net positive return on the investment over the long term.

How does immigration affect the U.S. economy? - The Science Behind It. (https://thesciencebehindit.org/how-does-immigration-affect-the-u-s-economy/)

This seems to be the general consensus (which doesn't mean it's right).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 27, 2024, 12:44:09 PM

Which one of us are natives?

We are all immigrants or decedents thereof.

We need more immigrants. I just want it done the right way. Look at the Cubans in Florida as an example.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 12:45:03 PM

I'm not yet a decedent at all, maybe tomorrow.;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 27, 2024, 01:20:24 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2024, 12:34:27 PM

You are smarter than this.

If we had a CFN community of 10 people who each earned an average of $150,000 our "GDP" would be $1.5M and our per-capita GDP would be $150k. If we added an immigrant who earns $40k our "GDP" would grow by $40k to $1,540,000 but our per-capita GDP would shrink to $140k.

The addition of that $40K immigrant doesn't reduce my income at all. In fact, that immigrant may provide goods and/or services that I prefer to spend a portion of my income on. 

Let's put it another way--what's better? An immigrant or a native-born American child?

• The immigrant comes pre-educated. None of my tax dollars need to be spent to educate them.
• The immigrant comes ready to work. The child spends 18(+) years as a non-producing dependent of other people, just draining the system of resources.
• The immigrant doesn't mean that any existing workers have to remove themselves from the workforce in order to be a parent. We can have more single-person or two-person households where both are working and adding to the tax system, instead of one working part-time or perhaps leaving the workforce entirely to be a full-time parent. 

I think if we assume people are bad for the economy, we should prioritize which is worse. Let's have more immigrants and fewer babies!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 27, 2024, 01:45:05 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2024, 10:35:09 AM

I don't blame you because the money on BOTH sides of the aisle tell you this all the time. They even buy studies that purport to "prove" it, but this is wildly untrue.

The welfare state and benefits like Social Security and Medicare make nearly any additions to the pool of recipients a net negative for us all economically.

Social Security and Medicare are substantially underwater. Ignore immigrants for a moment and just consider the economics of those programs for people born here:

• Social Security charges 6.2% of your wages.
• Medicare charges 1.45% of your wages.
• If you are self-employed you pay double that.
• If you work for someone else they pay the other half.

Thus, the total collected by the systems is 12.4% of earnings for Social Security and 2.9% of earnings for Medicare.

The two programs are theoretically separate but in practice they function together so, in total the Federal Government collects 15.3% of earned income for Social Security and Medicare.

As already mentioned both programs are massively underwater so that 15.3% is nowhere close to sufficient. This is despite the fact that each American pays it from their very first day flipping burgers at McDonald's in their teens until their very last day passing out carts at Wal-Mart in their old age (McDonald's and Wal-Mart are merely examples, the point is that Americans pay $1.53 of every $10 they earn from cradle to grave into SS/Medicare).


Since both systems are drowning in red ink we know that the average American isn't paying enough into the systems to cover their own costs.

Now back to immigrants:
Since we already know that the average American is a net drain in SS/Medicare, we also know that adding additional average Americans can only make those problems worse. You can't lose money on each person and make it up on volume, math doesn't work that way.

In theory we could benefit from high earning immigrants so long as their earnings are sufficient but there are additional problems spawned by immigration. The first is age. Even if SS/Medicare had some combination of higher rates or lower benefits such that the average American did pay for themselves, the numbers would still only work for immigrants who came here right at the start of their working lives. Anybody older than that couldn't possibly catch up without earnings way above average.

A prospective immigrant in their early 20's who has a job lined up with a six figure salary *MIGHT* pay for themselves but all other immigrants both legal AND illegal are a net drain on the economy. Anybody who tells you otherwise is either ignorant, lying, or a shill working for the Koch brothers or some similar person or entity.

• Fatal flaw #1: Conflating SS/Medicare with "the economy". SS/Medicare are government transfer payment programs that, yes, pay out more than people pay in on average. That doesn't mean that they are "the economy", or even a reasonable proxy for the economy. 
• Fatal flaw #2: This has always been true of SS/Medicare. They are not retirement investment accounts. The design of the program has ALWAYS required a certain ratio of active workers to retired benefit recipients in order to self-fund. 15.3% has never been about "how much do *I* need to put in to fund my retirement?", it's "how much do we need to tax current workers to pay the recipients?" This is why I spun it around on you. If immigrants are bad for the economy because of the structural nature of SS/Medicare, people are bad for the economy. American children are worse because they cost us much more up front to obtain. 
• Fatal flaw #3: Tying this to SS/Medicare makes it very easy for me to turn this around on you again. Let's say we increase the combined SS/Medicare tax to 20.8%. Oh, and we'll make it more spicy by saying that we reduce income taxes to make it revenue-neutral. Now SS/Medicare are self-sustaining and well-funded, and being revenue-neutral, the government total tax revenue is unchanged. Now magically by putting money into a different bucket, immigrants become great for the economy!

You may be able to make arguments that immigration is bad for the economy. We could have a spirited debate on that. 

But you swung and whiffed with this one. Sorry. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 27, 2024, 02:36:09 PM

Betting has become a hot-button topic in sports. Now, the NCAA is looking to limit the types of bets that can be placed on college sports, with NCAA President Charlie Baker seeking to remove college prop bets from all betting markets.

Now, Baker has released a statement about why the NCAA is seeking to end prop bets on college athletics.

“Sports betting issues are on the rise across the country with prop bets continuing to threaten the integrity of competition and leading to student-athletes and professional athletes being harassed,” Baker said in the statement. “The NCAA has been working with states to deal with these threats and many are responding by banning college prop bets.”

“This week we will be contacting officials across the country in states that still allow these bets and ask them to join Ohio, Vermont, Maryland, and many others and remove college prop bets from all betting markets. The NCAA is drawing the line on sports betting to protect student-athletes and to protect the integrity of the game — issues across the country these last several days show there is more work to be done.”

This comes after the Ohio Casino Control Commission (OCCC) granted a request in February by the NCAA to prohibit wagering on prop bets. Sportsbooks in the state had until the start of March to implement the change for college athletics.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 27, 2024, 02:56:24 PM

I'm getting crushed betting on HS girls prop bets because they don't seem to care

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 02:58:50 PM

In gambling, a "proposition bet" (prop bet, prop, novelty, or a side bet) is a bet made regarding the occurrence or non-occurrence during a game (usually a gambling game) of an event not directly affecting the game's final outcome.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 27, 2024, 03:03:29 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 02:58:50 PM

In gambling, a "proposition bet" (prop bet, prop, novelty, or a side bet) is a bet made regarding the occurrence or non-occurrence during a game (usually a gambling game) of an event not directly affecting the game's final outcome.

Making it easier for players to tinker with them without impacting the W/L outcome

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2024, 03:31:47 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 27, 2024, 01:20:24 PM

The addition of that $40K immigrant doesn't reduce my income at all. In fact, that immigrant may provide goods and/or services that I prefer to spend a portion of my income on.

Let's put it another way--what's better? An immigrant or a native-born American child?

• The immigrant comes pre-educated. None of my tax dollars need to be spent to educate them.
• The immigrant comes ready to work. The child spends 18(+) years as a non-producing dependent of other people, just draining the system of resources.
• The immigrant doesn't mean that any existing workers have to remove themselves from the workforce in order to be a parent. We can have more single-person or two-person households where both are working and adding to the tax system, instead of one working part-time or perhaps leaving the workforce entirely to be a full-time parent.

I think if we assume people are bad for the economy, we should prioritize which is worse. Let's have more immigrants and fewer babies!

• The immigrant comes pre-educated:  Well . . . some of them.  My dad's cardiologist was an Indian immigrant.  Whether or not he came pre-educated, I'm sure he contributed a lot more to the economy than he took out of it.  A large fraction of our current immigrants, especially the illegal ones, have at best a rudimentary education and work menial low-paying jobs.  The math is a LOT different at the extremes on either end.  Immigration policy should benefit us not the politicians (Democrats through more Democratic voters) and their paymasters (Democrats AND Republicans who want cheap labor and more A-Holes*).  
• Immigrants ready to work:  Kids are only a resource drain on the economy to the extent that the State pays for them.  If you or I pay for our own kids that is only mixing up what we spend out money on.  Ie, if we weren't parents that would be better for brewers and sellers of the type of expensive toys and luxury goods that non-parents with our incomes could afford but us being parents is better for childcare providers, Pediatricians, and all the other stuff we spend money on for our kids.  
• Immigrants allowing people into the workforce:  On a Macro level in our country it simply isn't working that way.  A ridiculously high percentage of stay-home moms have college degrees.  IIRC you lean libertarian and in some sort of theoretical libertarian paradise I wouldn't care.  We don't live in a libertarian paradise.  Here in reality college is highly subsidized which means that for the stay home moms with college degrees we (through the subsidy) effectively paid a boatload of money for a ridiculously inefficient dating service to get the stay home mom in question an "MRS Degree" so that she'd have a husband who made enough money so that she could stay home and NOT produce anything in the economy.  

Your argument that kids are a drain on the economy doesn't work.  We (parents) spend money but that money is back in the economy same as it would have been if we had stayed single and childless and bought more beers and toys with it.  On a micro level it is good for some and bad for others but on a macro level it just rearranges things.  

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 27, 2024, 01:45:05 PM

• Fatal flaw #1: Conflating SS/Medicare with "the economy". SS/Medicare are government transfer payment programs that, yes, pay out more than people pay in on average. That doesn't mean that they are "the economy", or even a reasonable proxy for the economy.
• Fatal flaw #2: This has always been true of SS/Medicare. They are not retirement investment accounts. The design of the program has ALWAYS required a certain ratio of active workers to retired benefit recipients in order to self-fund. 15.3% has never been about "how much do *I* need to put in to fund my retirement?", it's "how much do we need to tax current workers to pay the recipients?" This is why I spun it around on you. If immigrants are bad for the economy because of the structural nature of SS/Medicare, people are bad for the economy. American children are worse because they cost us much more up front to obtain.
• Fatal flaw #3: Tying this to SS/Medicare makes it very easy for me to turn this around on you again. Let's say we increase the combined SS/Medicare tax to 20.8%. Oh, and we'll make it more spicy by saying that we reduce income taxes to make it revenue-neutral. Now SS/Medicare are self-sustaining and well-funded, and being revenue-neutral, the government total tax revenue is unchanged. Now magically by putting money into a different bucket, immigrants become great for the economy!

You may be able to make arguments that immigration is bad for the economy. We could have a spirited debate on that.

But you swung and whiffed with this one. Sorry.

I'm going to combine these three because they are basically different prongs of the same argument.  

I completely agree with your implied point that the distinction between Social Security and Medicare and all other Government benefits is imaginary.  Government takes a portion of our incomes in various ways including:

• Social Security at 12.4% of earned income
• Medicare at 2.9% of earned income
• Gas and other excise taxes every time we buy gas or pay a cellphone bill, etc
• Income Taxes at different rates based on income and deductions
• etc.  

Then Government provides us with certain services including:

• Defending our borders - just kidding, they don't bother to do that.  
• Defending Ukraine's borders - They do this!
• Defending Israel's borders - They do this too!
• College assistance (see above).  
• Social Security Benefits if we become disabled or achieve the necessary age.  
• Medicare benefits if we achieve the necessary age.  
• Roads and other infrastructure.  
• Welfare if we need it - Or if we can trick them into thinking we need it, the amount of welfare fraud in this country is staggering.  
• National Parks - Does anyone else find it funny that the Agency in charge of everything outdoors is called the Department of the Interior?  
• etc.  

Here is the thing:  
Even taking out the SS/Medicare items, we all know that the Federal Government has had one year in the black in IIRC something like the last 70 years.  So we, all of us on average, are contributing less than we are getting.  Ok, I didn't phrase that well.  There is so much inefficiency inherent in the system that all but the lowest contributors probably pay more than we get so I'll rephrase that as:  We, all of us on average, are contributing less than the government spends on services for us.  


It doesn't matter how you slice it, the average American pays less, a LOT less than the government spends on them.  No matter how hard you try, you can't make that up on volume.  Each individual immigrant incrementally increases revenue and also incrementally increases expenditures.  An immigrant earning an average income increases the deficit incrementally.  A particularly low-earning immigrant increases the deficit more.  A particularly high-earning immigrant increases the deficit less.  A few REALLY high-earning immigrants actually decrease the deficit.  

We get by because some Americans contribute WAY over the average.  A rational immigration policy would aim to allow ONLY those immigrants who are likely to pull the average up.  

My ancestors all arrived before the Civil War.  There was no Social Security, no Medicare, no welfare, few roads, no National Parks, we weren't defending Ukraine's borders, there wasn't an Israel, there was no federal college assistance aside from the Service Academies and recipients paid that back through service in the Armed Forces.  The early United States and earlier British Colonial American Governments that people immigrated to back then didn't need to worry about whether or not those immigrants would be net contributors or net sponges of governmental benefits because there weren't enough governmental benefits to sponge for that to be a concern.  Our modern nation is VERY different.  There are a plethora of governmental benefits and beyond that benefits provided by private actors under governmental mandate (ie, ER care).  

I'll concede without argument that SOME immigrants are net contributors but you cannot possibly argue that no immigrant is a net sponge.  As a society we shouldn't let in ANY net sponges.  There is no shortage of welfare recipients and unskilled laborers.  We have plenty already and don't need any more.  

I'm much less favorable to legal immigration than basically everyone here for four main reasons:

• Because our Immigration Policy is nothing close to rational.  We *SHOULD* favor educated young people so that they will contribute to the economy in a major way and for a LONG time before they need retirement benefits.  Instead we favor family reunification that frequently brings in elderly relatives of people already here (this is a fiscal disaster) and we have almost zero functional favoritism aimed at bringing in high earners.  
• Even if we did have a rational immigration policy, I wouldn't trust the Government to actually stick to it and enforce it based on their track record.  
• Because I have a lot of blue-collar relatives and associates.  While immigration is possibly a net benefit for guys like me (and most everyone on this board) because we are net consumers of unskilled labor, it is an abject disaster for a net provider of unskilled labor who sees greater competition for jobs AND benefits.  
• I live in Ohio.  It is one of the lowest immigration states in the Union.  My county in Ohio is one of the lowest immigration counties in Ohio.  Years ago (long before Trump if anyone is wondering), I noticed that our Municipal Court spends a significant amount of money on interpreters for destitute immigrant defendants who do not speak English.  Now if that is true in one of the lowest immigration Counties in one of the lowest immigration States then I can conclude that it is a MUCH bigger problem in areas with more immigrants and why are we importing criminals?  Even more than with welfare recipients and unskilled laborers, we have plenty of domestic criminals, we don't need any more.  

*Up in the top portion I mentioned Republican donors who want more A-holes.  This was a specific shot at the Koch Brothers.  One of their businesses is producing toilet paper and they have a near monopoly in that.  Thus, they quite literally make more money every time the number of A-holes in America increases.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 27, 2024, 03:38:18 PM

I would just add immigrants tend to be hard working, more likely to start a business, and less likely to commit crime. Turns out, someone who would risk prison or death just to make things better for their family are good bets for society. A good policy would be to leave people alone who aren't committing crime and spend most of your resources restricting immigration on the idiots. Illegal immigrants aren't getting social security anyhow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 03:38:26 PM

Koch Industries doesn't have anything close to a "near monopoly" on toilet paper.  I used to work in that specific industry.  Charmin is the leading brand (unless you consider it as two brands).

And of course the Koch "brothers" now is just "brother", not that is matters.

I'll probably get more out of SS than I paid into it if I live a bit longer.  Younger folks working of course support me in that, just as I did back in the day.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 03:39:06 PM

I still wonder how Democrats are restricting legal immigration, maybe they are.  I miss a lot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 27, 2024, 03:41:06 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 03:39:06 PM

I still wonder how Democrats are restricting legal immigration, maybe they are.  I miss a lot.

Google is a wondrous invention

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 03:52:37 PM

I was unable to find any evidence that Democrats are calling for restrictions on legal immigration.  I agree Trump is, and has done so, the "Koch" wing of the Republican party is opposed to that.  Democrats from what I can see oppose that as well.  I've seen proposals from some of them advocating opening up more avenues for legal immigration.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 27, 2024, 04:25:08 PM

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2024, 03:31:47 PM

• The immigrant comes pre-educated:  Well . . . some of them.  My dad's cardiologist was an Indian immigrant.  Whether or not he came pre-educated, I'm sure he contributed a lot more to the economy than he took out of it.  A large fraction of our current immigrants, especially the illegal ones, have at best a rudimentary education and work menial low-paying jobs.  The math is a LOT different at the extremes on either end.  Immigration policy should benefit us not the politicians (Democrats through more Democratic voters) and their paymasters (Democrats AND Republicans who want cheap labor and more A-Holes*). 
• Immigrants ready to work:  Kids are only a resource drain on the economy to the extent that the State pays for them.  If you or I pay for our own kids that is only mixing up what we spend out money on.  Ie, if we weren't parents that would be better for brewers and sellers of the type of expensive toys and luxury goods that non-parents with our incomes could afford but us being parents is better for childcare providers, Pediatricians, and all the other stuff we spend money on for our kids. 
• Immigrants allowing people into the workforce:  On a Macro level in our country it simply isn't working that way.  A ridiculously high percentage of stay-home moms have college degrees.  IIRC you lean libertarian and in some sort of theoretical libertarian paradise I wouldn't care.  We don't live in a libertarian paradise.  Here in reality college is highly subsidized which means that for the stay home moms with college degrees we (through the subsidy) effectively paid a boatload of money for a ridiculously inefficient dating service to get the stay home mom in question an "MRS Degree" so that she'd have a husband who made enough money so that she could stay home and NOT produce anything in the economy. 

Your argument that kids are a drain on the economy doesn't work.  We (parents) spend money but that money is back in the economy same as it would have been if we had stayed single and childless and bought more beers and toys with it.  On a micro level it is good for some and bad for others but on a macro level it just rearranges things. 
I'm going to combine these three because they are basically different prongs of the same argument. 

The point about kids was meant to be humorous and a reductio ad absurdum, because obviously we're not going to stop having kids. 

But it's also true. My kids have lived a combined 41 years in this country and have not combined produced goods or services useful to other humans on par with what my unskilled/manual labor gardening crew does in a month. They absolutely ARE a drain on resources... Until they reach the age to actually participate in the productive side of the economy, that is. 

On a micro level, paying someone to dig a hole and then fill it back up can be good for some and bad for others. But on a macro level, that's just a drain on resources because it's not actually productive work. 

And I'm going to highlight one bit from your quote because again I think it's a fatal flaw:

Quote

Kids are only a resource drain on the economy to the extent that the State pays for them.  If you or I pay for our own kids that is only mixing up what we spend out money on.

Government spending is not "the economy." Government spending is ONE PART of the economy. Obviously it's the one that is tax-funded (which I'll address below) and thus the one where MY kids can cost YOU money, which I understand why it's important to talk about. 

Those people who choose to have kids are doing so out of personal preference, but I think the point still stands that until those kids reach an age where they are able to contribute to the productive side of the economy, you can't describe them economically as anything but a drain.

Quote

I completely agree with your implied point that the distinction between Social Security and Medicare and all other Government benefits is imaginary.  Government takes a portion of our incomes in various ways including:

• Social Security at 12.4% of earned income
• Medicare at 2.9% of earned income
• Gas and other excise taxes every time we buy gas or pay a cellphone bill, etc
• Income Taxes at different rates based on income and deductions
• etc. 

Then Government provides us with certain services including:

• Defending our borders - just kidding, they don't bother to do that. 
• Defending Ukraine's borders - They do this!
• Defending Israel's borders - They do this too!
• College assistance (see above). 
• Social Security Benefits if we become disabled or achieve the necessary age. 
• Medicare benefits if we achieve the necessary age. 
• Roads and other infrastructure. 
• Welfare if we need it - Or if we can trick them into thinking we need it, the amount of welfare fraud in this country is staggering. 
• National Parks - Does anyone else find it funny that the Agency in charge of everything outdoors is called the Department of the Interior? 
• etc. 

Here is the thing: 
Even taking out the SS/Medicare items, we all know that the Federal Government has had one year in the black in IIRC something like the last 70 years.  So we, all of us on average, are contributing less than we are getting.  Ok, I didn't phrase that well.  There is so much inefficiency inherent in the system that all but the lowest contributors probably pay more than we get so I'll rephrase that as:  We, all of us on average, are contributing less than the government spends on services for us. 


It doesn't matter how you slice it, the average American pays less, a LOT less than the government spends on them.  No matter how hard you try, you can't make that up on volume.  Each individual immigrant incrementally increases revenue and also incrementally increases expenditures.  An immigrant earning an average income increases the deficit incrementally.  A particularly low-earning immigrant increases the deficit more.  A particularly high-earning immigrant increases the deficit less.  A few REALLY high-earning immigrants actually decrease the deficit. 

We get by because some Americans contribute WAY over the average.  A rational immigration policy would aim to allow ONLY those immigrants who are likely to pull the average up. 

My ancestors all arrived before the Civil War.  There was no Social Security, no Medicare, no welfare, few roads, no National Parks, we weren't defending Ukraine's borders, there wasn't an Israel, there was no federal college assistance aside from the Service Academies and recipients paid that back through service in the Armed Forces.  The early United States and earlier British Colonial American Governments that people immigrated to back then didn't need to worry about whether or not those immigrants would be net contributors or net sponges of governmental benefits because there weren't enough governmental benefits to sponge for that to be a concern.  Our modern nation is VERY different.  There are a plethora of governmental benefits and beyond that benefits provided by private actors under governmental mandate (ie, ER care). 

I'll concede without argument that SOME immigrants are net contributors but you cannot possibly argue that no immigrant is a net sponge.  As a society we shouldn't let in ANY net sponges.  There is no shortage of welfare recipients and unskilled laborers.  We have plenty already and don't need any more. 

I'm much less favorable to legal immigration than basically everyone here for four main reasons:

• Because our Immigration Policy is nothing close to rational.  We *SHOULD* favor educated young people so that they will contribute to the economy in a major way and for a LONG time before they need retirement benefits.  Instead we favor family reunification that frequently brings in elderly relatives of people already here (this is a fiscal disaster) and we have almost zero functional favoritism aimed at bringing in high earners. 
• Even if we did have a rational immigration policy, I wouldn't trust the Government to actually stick to it and enforce it based on their track record. 
• Because I have a lot of blue-collar relatives and associates.  While immigration is possibly a net benefit for guys like me (and most everyone on this board) because we are net consumers of unskilled labor, it is an abject disaster for a net provider of unskilled labor who sees greater competition for jobs AND benefits. 
• I live in Ohio.  It is one of the lowest immigration states in the Union.  My county in Ohio is one of the lowest immigration counties in Ohio.  Years ago (long before Trump if anyone is wondering), I noticed that our Municipal Court spends a significant amount of money on interpreters for destitute immigrant defendants who do not speak English.  Now if that is true in one of the lowest immigration Counties in one of the lowest immigration States then I can conclude that it is a MUCH bigger problem in areas with more immigrants and why are we importing criminals?  Even more than with welfare recipients and unskilled laborers, we have plenty of domestic criminals, we don't need any more. 

*Up in the top portion I mentioned Republican donors who want more A-holes.  This was a specific shot at the Koch Brothers.  One of their businesses is producing toilet paper and they have a near monopoly in that.  Thus, they quite literally make more money every time the number of A-holes in America increases. 

Again, the fatal flaw here is that "government spending" is not "the economy". Combined state/federal/local expenditures (going with pre-2020 due to COVID fiscal stimulus) was stable from 2014-2019 at 33% of GDP (https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statistics/government-current-receipts-and-expenditures). 

Immigrants, even low-skilled ones, produce goods and services that are of value to other Americans and in that, they're contributing to the economy. Whether they pay less in taxes than the government provides in services is a different but related factor. Now I don't think that means that we should just start importing hordes of unskilled immigrants, because again, I actually agree with you that some of them WILL be a net drain on "the economy", not just on "the government".

But I don't think you can make an argument that any immigrant who isn't in the top 1% and can finance our government faster than the government spends on goods and services should be shunned. That's not the dividing line for "net sponge" IMHO. Because if it is, you can say that almost everyone in this country--and almost everyone on this board--is a "net sponge" and should go suck off the government teat somewhere else. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 04:44:59 PM

Kari Lake seeks to forfeit her defense in defamation case | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4558409-kari-lake-seeks-to-forfeit-her-defense-in-defamation-case/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 27, 2024, 05:41:08 PM

Quote from: ELA on March 27, 2024, 03:03:29 PM

Making it easier for players to tinker with them without impacting the W/L outcome

so, ban this but continue with betting on the W/L outcome that can also be tinkered with?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2024, 07:56:18 AM

Every day, police rely on common tactics that, unlike guns, are meant to stop people without killing them, such as physical holds, Tasers and body blows. But when misused, these tactics can still end in death — as happened with George Floyd in 2020, sparking a national reckoning over policing. And while that encounter was caught on video, capturing Floyd’s last words of “I can’t breathe,” many others throughout the United States have escaped notice.

Over a decade, more than 1,000 people died after police subdued them through means not intended to be lethal, an investigation led by The Associated Press found. In hundreds of cases, officers weren’t taught or didn’t follow best safety practices for physical force and weapons, creating a recipe for death.


https://apnews.com/article/associated-press-investigation-deaths-police-encounters-02881a2bd3fbeb1fc31af9208bb0e310 (https://apnews.com/article/associated-press-investigation-deaths-police-encounters-02881a2bd3fbeb1fc31af9208bb0e310)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 28, 2024, 08:34:23 AM

Not a good subject. That was a bad year on so many levels.

Saving grace for us is we moved to Florida.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 28, 2024, 08:43:47 AM

Rather comical.

Russian State TV Proposes Seizing Alaska and California (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-state-tv-proposes-seizing-alaska-and-california/ar-BB1kGLOJ?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=986018016436471cbfeefd47281878a6&ei=18)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on March 28, 2024, 08:50:31 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 27, 2024, 12:44:09 PM

Which one of us are natives?

We are all immigrants or decedents thereof.

We need more immigrants. I just want it done the right way. Look at the Cubans in Florida as an example.

Is that an example of the right way or the wrong way?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2024, 09:09:34 AM

Baltimore disaster may be largest ever marine insurance payout: Lloyd's (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/28/baltimore-disaster-may-be-largest-ever-marine-insurance-payout-lloyds-.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 28, 2024, 09:10:25 AM

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 28, 2024, 08:50:31 AM

Is that an example of the right way or the wrong way?

They do it right. They flee communism, come here legally, are vetted, and are productive people on a path to become citizens. Many already have. 

It works if it's done right.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 28, 2024, 09:25:30 AM

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/28/baltimore-disaster-may-be-largest-ever-marine-insurance-payout-lloyds-.html

That's gonna leave a mark.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 28, 2024, 09:33:23 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 28, 2024, 09:25:30 AM

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/28/baltimore-disaster-may-be-largest-ever-marine-insurance-payout-lloyds-.html

That's gonna leave a mark.

Lots of question marks on this one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 28, 2024, 10:15:14 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 28, 2024, 09:33:23 AM

Lots of question marks on this one.

Maybe on the second-order effects, but not on some things.

The bridge is easily going to be $2B itself, and the federal government and State of Maryland will be in admiralty court to get this out of Lloyd's. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 28, 2024, 10:17:50 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 28, 2024, 10:15:14 AM

Maybe on the second-order effects, but not on some things.

The bridge is easily going to be $2B itself, and the federal government and State of Maryland will be in admiralty court to get this out of Lloyd's.

will they? Biden said the US gov't will pay for the entire cost of reconstructing that bridge. That's a direct quote from President Shits-His-Diapers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 28, 2024, 10:22:02 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on March 27, 2024, 03:38:18 PM

I would just add immigrants tend to be hard working, more likely to start a business, and less likely to commit crime. Turns out, someone who would risk prison or death just to make things better for their family are good bets for society. A good policy would be to leave people alone who aren't committing crime and spend most of your resources restricting immigration on the idiots. Illegal immigrants aren't getting social security anyhow.

definitely agree. immigrants are the life blood of the US, it's what has made this country the greatest in the world and will continue to make it great.

definitely need to secure the border however and make sure we know who is coming in and out of the country. can't have an open border that is a wild free for all where anyone can just cross.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 28, 2024, 10:23:58 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 28, 2024, 08:43:47 AM

Rather comical.

Russian State TV Proposes Seizing Alaska and California (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-state-tv-proposes-seizing-alaska-and-california/ar-BB1kGLOJ?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=986018016436471cbfeefd47281878a6&ei=18)

that's funny. they have had a hell of a time taking 20% of their tiny little startup fighting with scraps next door neighbor Ukraine over the last 2 years.

now imagine them trying to cross an ocean and taking on a military that has the most advanced weapons systems in the world and spends like a trillion dollars a year. lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 28, 2024, 10:37:35 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 12:28:45 PM

If you don't replace your population over time, bad things happen.  I think if it's not growing at a decent rate, bad things happen. 

yup. which is why China is screwed. One Child policy for decades has lead to an aging rapidly declining population and they don't have millions and millions of immigrants dying to move there (like we do here) to make up the gaps- nor do they really allow much legal immigration- people who think legal immigration is tough here- look into what it takes to legally immigrate to other countries.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 28, 2024, 10:50:21 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 28, 2024, 10:17:50 AM

will they? Biden said the US gov't will pay for the entire cost of reconstructing that bridge. 

Since the federal government is going after the estates of Medicare and Medicaid beneficiaries to claw back costs, you can be damn sure they will be going after a much, much larger target.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on March 28, 2024, 11:36:29 AM

by far the greatest, most important, most significant news publisher of our times, Julian Assange wins a small victory in a UK court yesterday which ruled that a final ruling on his extradition to the US would be delayed three weeks in order to receive assurances from the US pertaining to Assange’s 1st amendment rights and that the US would not seek the death penalty. If the US fails to give these assurances to the UK then Assange would be allowed to appeal his extradition to the US at a hearing in May.

There has been talk floated by the media (WSJ, NYT, Guardian, WaPo) from "anonymous sources" in the DoJ about them offering Assange some kind of plea deal for a misdemeanor charge of mishandling classified material and being able to walk free. Gee how generous of them. Here's a better idea, why not go f*ck yourselves and just drop all the bullsh*t charges and stop trying to kill the guy? What a thought.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 28, 2024, 12:22:36 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 28, 2024, 10:37:35 AM

yup. which is why China is screwed. One Child policy for decades has lead to an aging rapidly declining population and they don't have millions and millions of immigrants dying to move there (like we do here) to make up the gaps- nor do they really allow much legal immigration- people who think legal immigration is tough here- look into what it takes to legally immigrate to other countries.

How many got whacked over the years for opposing CCP policy.Or how many did they trap in Apt. or Condo buildings during Wuhan Flu by blockading or welding entrance/exit doors?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 28, 2024, 12:25:43 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on March 28, 2024, 11:36:29 AM

 Gee how generous of them. Here's a better idea, why not go f*ck yourselves and just drop all the bullsh*t charges and stop trying to kill the guy? What a thought.

If he has listened to Brandon's babbled State of Union Speeches nothing will kill him

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2024, 12:54:45 PM

I don't view the Assange story as significant, at all, sorry.  Whatever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 28, 2024, 01:15:10 PM

Love this.

[color=var(--primary-text-color)]FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried was sentenced Thursday to 25 years in prison for fraud tied to the collapse of his digital exchange, capping the onetime crypto king’s meteoric rise and fall.[/color]

[color=var(--primary-text-color)]Less than two years ago, the moptop millennial hobnobbed with heads of state, soaked up Caribbean views from his $30 million penthouse and vowed to use his wealth to better humanity.[/color]

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2024, 01:32:19 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/00oNcvQ.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 28, 2024, 02:59:11 PM

This is pretty damn funny, @Honestbuckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=37) and @Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) .

DeSantis Kicked Out Of Republican Party For Accomplishing Too Many Things | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/desantis-kicked-out-of-republican-party-for-accomplishing-too-many-things)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 28, 2024, 03:02:40 PM

https://twitter.com/OrganizerMemes/status/1773159061917208815?t=_oQNqmvht1rqg-TEvEddEg&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 28, 2024, 04:45:03 PM

https://www.mlive.com/sports/2024/03/michigan-lawmaker-says-illegal-invaders-landed-in-detroit-but-they-were-ncaa-basketball-teams.html?utm_campaign=mlivesports_sf&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

We deserve the idiots we elect

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 28, 2024, 05:12:09 PM

Quote from: ELA on March 28, 2024, 04:45:03 PM

https://www.mlive.com/sports/2024/03/michigan-lawmaker-says-illegal-invaders-landed-in-detroit-but-they-were-ncaa-basketball-teams.html?utm_campaign=mlivesports_sf&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

We deserve the idiots we elect

nobody deserves Brandon

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2024, 05:18:16 PM

we didn't elect Brandon

the cheaters stole the election!!!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 28, 2024, 05:27:40 PM

Quote from: ELA on March 28, 2024, 04:45:03 PM

https://www.mlive.com/sports/2024/03/michigan-lawmaker-says-illegal-invaders-landed-in-detroit-but-they-were-ncaa-basketball-teams.html?utm_campaign=mlivesports_sf&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

We deserve the idiots we elect

If it had been the Ohio State basketball team, he'd keep his seat until he dies. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 28, 2024, 06:55:07 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 28, 2024, 05:18:16 PM

we didn't elect Brandon

the cheaters stole the election!!!!

Don't feed the animals.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2024, 07:38:49 PM

He just needed about 12,000 more votes here….

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 28, 2024, 09:12:39 PM

Biden:  81.3 million votes
Trump:  74.2 million votes, but only need 12K to win
.
Helluva system we got.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2024, 10:08:38 PM

Actually GA would not be enough anyway.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2024, 11:35:33 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 28, 2024, 06:55:07 PM

Don't feed the animals. 

just stirring the pot

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2024, 11:36:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 28, 2024, 09:12:39 PM

Biden:  81.3 million votes
Trump:  74.2 million votes, but only need 12K to win
.
Helluva system we got.

I prefer this system to a system that would give Cali and NY more influence than they already have

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 29, 2024, 12:24:18 AM

Yeah, best to give Wyoming and the Dakotas more power than they warrant.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2024, 03:44:11 AM

A lot of folks dislike the EC of course, I don't stress over it because I don't see anyway it can change.

There is a "plot" afoot among some states to get around it, but it's a bit odd, to me. 

(If it causes your side to lose, you probably dislike it more than if it leads to your side winning.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 29, 2024, 07:27:40 AM

Today is National Vietnam War Veterans Day
Much Thanx to those that served as Patrick Henry said "to the vigilant,the active,the brave."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 29, 2024, 07:37:01 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 29, 2024, 12:24:18 AM

Yeah, best to give Wyoming and the Dakotas more power than they warrant.

People actually moving there for work,instead of those sebaceos welfare hamlets whose idea is to charge those with a work ethic that manged to support themselves and payed their own way

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 29, 2024, 08:00:00 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 29, 2024, 12:24:18 AM

Yeah, best to give Wyoming and the Dakotas more power than they warrant.

Wyoming and the Dakotas have almost no power

Fly over states not swing states

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2024, 08:03:35 AM

Wyoming is the leading coal producing state, producing about 40% of total US production.

Which states produce the most coal? (energybot.com) (https://www.energybot.com/energy-faq/which-states-produce-the-most-coal.html#:~:text=The top coal-producing states,coal mined in the US.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 29, 2024, 08:05:57 AM

Wyoming doesn't produce enough electoral votes to matter

no politicians bothering those cowboys

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2024, 08:06:34 AM

They do get two Senators, same as California.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 29, 2024, 08:09:25 AM

thank god

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2024, 08:15:23 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 29, 2024, 12:24:18 AM

Yeah, best to give Wyoming and the Dakotas more power than they warrant.

Correct. They are states. California pretends it is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2024, 08:34:07 AM

California Fast Food Workers Laid Off in Droves as New Minimum Wage Requirement Takes Effect (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/california-fast-food-workers-laid-off-in-droves-as-new-minimum-wage-requirement-takes-effect/ss-BB1kIAlF?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=06ac8e9d5ec54475951639c7a30abe23&ei=7)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 29, 2024, 08:54:06 AM

government help

good intentions - poor results

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 29, 2024, 09:05:58 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 29, 2024, 03:44:11 AM

A lot of folks dislike the EC of course, I don't stress over it because I don't see anyway it can change.

There is a "plot" afoot among some states to get around it, but it's a bit odd, to me.

(If it causes your side to lose, you probably dislike it more than if it leads to your side winning.)

The easiest way to lessen the impact of the Electoral College is a sizable increase in the size of the House of Representatives.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 29, 2024, 09:12:33 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2024, 08:15:23 AM

Correct. They are states. California pretends it is.

Well state of confusion should count,no?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2024, 09:25:12 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 29, 2024, 09:05:58 AM

The easiest way to lessen the impact of the Electoral College is a sizable increase in the size of the House of Representatives.

Nah. No need.

Every ten years it rolls around. NY loses two. Cali loses two. Illinois loses two.

Gains in states that do things right.

That is what works. The people choose.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2024, 09:30:53 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 29, 2024, 09:05:58 AM

The easiest way to lessen the impact of the Electoral College is a sizable increase in the size of the House of Representatives.

I don't think that would be any easier than just doing away with the EC.  Both have very high hurdles.  And that wouldn't impact Presidential elections (unless there was a tie).

The "Compact of the States" is the most innovative way of eliminating the influence of the EC, but I think if it ever happened, folks would find they don't like it either.  And, it MAY be unconstitutional.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 29, 2024, 09:35:44 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2024, 09:25:12 AM

Nah. No need.

Every ten years it rolls around. NY loses two. Cali loses two. Illinois loses two.

Gains in states that do things right.

That is what works. The people choose.

Yup.  As long as the Constitutionally-mandated system of federalism remains intact, people can vote with their feet.

When the Federal government overreaches and usurps powers that should remain with the states and municipalities, the purpose of federalism is defeated (as is the Constitution).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 29, 2024, 09:44:31 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 29, 2024, 09:30:53 AM

I don't think that would be any easier than just doing away with the EC.  Both have very high hurdles.  And that wouldn't impact Presidential elections (unless there was a tie).

The "Compact of the States" is the most innovative way of eliminating the influence of the EC, but I think if it ever happened, folks would find they don't like it either.  And, it MAY be unconstitutional. 

It's much easier to expand the House than eliminate the Electoral College. The House is only set at 435 by a 1911 law and can be changed whenever Congress so chooses. Changes to the EC require a full constitutional amendment.

As for size, the population of Great Britain is ~1/6 that of the US, yet there are 650 seats in the Commons.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2024, 09:45:27 AM

Quote from: utee94 on March 29, 2024, 09:35:44 AM

Yup.  As long as the Constitutionally-mandated system of federalism remains intact, people can vote with their feet.

When the Federal government overreaches and usurps powers that should remain with the states and municipalities, the purpose of federalism is defeated (as is the Constitution).

Why do so many people not understand this?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2024, 09:46:42 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 29, 2024, 09:44:31 AM

It's much easier to expand the House than eliminate the Electoral College. The House is only set at 435 by a 1911 law and can be changed whenever Congress so chooses. Changes to the EC require a full constitutional amendment.

As for size, the population of Great Britain is ~1/6 that of the US, yet there are 650 seats in the Commons.

More people trying to come to a consensus is not a better way. Less is more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2024, 09:49:13 AM

Thanks, I had not known the House could be expanded more easily.

The Case for Enlarging the House of Representatives | American Academy of Arts and Sciences (amacad.org) (https://www.amacad.org/ourcommonpurpose/enlarging-the-house/section/1)

Pros and Cons of Expanding the House | American Academy of Arts and Sciences (amacad.org) (https://www.amacad.org/news/pros-and-cons-expanding-house)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 29, 2024, 09:53:07 AM

I've watched plenty of television clips from Parliament's House of Commons.  Whilst it can be a hilarious way to pass a few minutes, I can't say I recommend it as a system of government.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2024, 09:55:42 AM

It's the worst possible form of government ....




I watch Churchill's speech from time to time, the movie about it, it gives me chills.

Darkest Hour (2017) - We Shall Fight on the Beaches Scene (10/10) | Movieclips (youtube.com) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skrdyoabmgA)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2024, 10:04:27 AM

According to officials, between March 14 and April 7, over 7.6 million passengers are expected to pass through the Atlanta airport.

(https://track.roinattrack.com/87d00162-2214-4871-979b-1279f50d68f5)

 (https://track.roinattrack.com/87d00162-2214-4871-979b-1279f50d68f5) (https://track.roinattrack.com/87d00162-2214-4871-979b-1279f50d68f5)
 (https://track.roinattrack.com/87d00162-2214-4871-979b-1279f50d68f5) (https://track.roinattrack.com/87d00162-2214-4871-979b-1279f50d68f5) (https://popup.taboola.com/en/?template=colorbox&utm_source=cox-wsb-tv&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=video-reel-sc:Video Reel Mid Article:)
(https://popup.taboola.com/en/?template=colorbox&utm_source=cox-wsb-tv&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=video-reel-sc:Video Reel Mid Article:)

Skip 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 29, 2024, 10:53:10 AM

good luck to them

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 29, 2024, 10:55:10 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2024, 09:45:27 AM

Why do so many people not understand this?

They do. But most people are absolutely incensed that other people behave differently from how they want them to. They must either be forbidden from doing something they want or forced to do something they don't want. 

If you want power over other people, why settle for only getting power over 1-2M (small state), or 10-20M (large state), or 40M (CA), when you can just do it in Washington DC and you get power over 340M?

It's just more efficient to control other people when you buy in bulk. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2024, 10:59:29 AM

My guess is if Democrats benefitted from the EC, they'd be for it, and vice versa.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 29, 2024, 10:59:43 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 29, 2024, 10:55:10 AM

They do. But most people are absolutely incensed that other people behave differently from how they want them to. They must either be forbidden from doing something they want or forced to do something they don't want.

If you want power over other people, why settle for only getting power over 1-2M (small state), or 10-20M (large state), or 40M (CA), when you can just do it in Washington DC and you get power over 340M?

It's just more efficient to control other people when you buy in bulk.

Aye, there's the rub. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 29, 2024, 11:21:05 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 29, 2024, 10:59:29 AM

My guess is if Democrats benefitted from the EC, they'd be for it, and vice versa.

and the reason the Dems dont benefit from the EC is that a vast majority of Dems is located in large cities which means fewer states then the Repubs

doing away with the EC would destroy the idea of state rights and destroy the constitution as well

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2024, 11:22:57 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 29, 2024, 11:21:05 AM

and the reason the Dems dont benefit from the EC is that a vast majority of Dems is located in large cities which means fewer states then the Repubs

doing away with the EC would destroy the idea of state rights and destroy the constitution as well

That is a goal of many.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 29, 2024, 11:28:33 AM

I dont think we will see the dems get the popular vote next election

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2024, 11:39:00 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 29, 2024, 11:28:33 AM

I dont think we will see the dems get the popular vote next election

You sure?

(https://i.imgur.com/6Jeaw2D.jpeg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 29, 2024, 11:50:13 AM

fool me once shame on you

fool me twice shame on me

read the other day how the GOP is hard at work establishing ballet harvesting in swing states

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on March 29, 2024, 12:11:35 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 29, 2024, 11:28:33 AM

I dont think we will see the dems get the popular vote next election

Are you sure about that?

Republicans have won 3 popular votes for President in my lifetime, 2 of which were before I started kindergarten, with the third being 20 years ago. 

As for the RNC, they are spending all their money on Trump's criminal defense lawyers instead of doing groundwork.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 29, 2024, 12:20:03 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on March 29, 2024, 12:11:35 PM

Are you sure about that?

Republicans have won 3 popular votes for President in my lifetime, 2 of which were before I started kindergarten, with the third being 20 years ago.

As for the RNC, they are spending all their money on Trump's criminal defense lawyers instead of doing groundwork.

the dems have Brandon and the American would vote for my cat first rather then him

yes Brandon is doing everything he can to suppress the next election but it wont work

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 29, 2024, 12:32:30 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 29, 2024, 12:20:03 PM

the dems have Brandon and the American would vote for my cat first rather then him

yes Brandon is doing everything he can to suppress the next election but it wont work

I think you underestimate how many people were/are voting "against Trump" rather than "for Biden".

In 2020 do you really think all those voters who voted Dem were excited about voting for Joe Biden? No, they wanted literally anyone but Trump. Trump's antics after the election likely created even more "anyone but Trump" voters. 

I'd vote for your cat before casting a vote for Biden, but I'm even stronger than I was in 2020 in my "anyone but Trump" stance. Your cat may be better than Biden, but Biden's still not Trump, and your cat isn't on the ballot. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 29, 2024, 01:06:37 PM

I'll be voting for "anyone but Trump or Biden."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2024, 01:09:00 PM

I don't vote for people.

I vote for policy, with my wallet, freedom and the fate of our Republic top of mind.

It i also very important to vote local. That's where you can have the most impact.

Look at this 2020 election map by county. We know where the control is. Pretty easy to see.

(https://i.imgur.com/Ld3gDaR.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on March 29, 2024, 01:14:46 PM

Quote from: utee94 on March 29, 2024, 01:06:37 PM

I'll be voting for "anyone but Trump or Biden."

Even a Sooner?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2024, 01:15:52 PM

Quote from: ELA on March 29, 2024, 01:14:46 PM

Even a Sooner?

Rather than later?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 29, 2024, 01:43:26 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 29, 2024, 12:32:30 PM

I think you underestimate how many people were/are voting "against Trump" rather than "for Biden".

In 2020 do you really think all those voters who voted Dem were excited about voting for Joe Biden? No, they wanted literally anyone but Trump. Trump's antics after the election likely created even more "anyone but Trump" voters.

I'd vote for your cat before casting a vote for Biden, but I'm even stronger than I was in 2020 in my "anyone but Trump" stance. Your cat may be better than Biden, but Biden's still not Trump, and your cat isn't on the ballot.

youve got Trump Derangement Syndrome and Im afraid theres nothing anyone can do for ya

but I like the MAGA chances

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2024, 01:55:29 PM

I couldn't live with myself if I ever skipped a vote. It's a right and a civic duty and I take it very seriously.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 29, 2024, 02:19:12 PM

Yup voting local makes the most impact to your daily life.

And also, I'm a living testament to "voting with my feet."  I lived in Austin, TX for the first 40 years of my life.  I never really imagined living anywhere else.  But the local politics became so deranged and disjointed, I finally had to move.

The suburb I live in, is just outside of Austin, so I still get to enjoy the aspects of the city that I've always loved.  But I also now live in a city that focuses much more on the aspects of life I care about.  Rather than spending scores of millions of dollars on stupid pet projects like sectioning off bike lanes that nobody uses, subsidizing light rail that nobody uses, and purchasing hotels for the homeless a decade ago that still stand empty and nobody ever used-- my town actually spends money on police protection and processing criminals, building meaningful infrastructure, and reinvesting in the community rather than the rampant cronyism in Austin, whose "leaders" are focused on lining the pockets of their besties, and their own pockets, along the way.  The crime rate here is substantially lower than in Austin, and my neighborhood happens to have the lowest crime rate in my entire town.  It really is "idyllic" in a post-war kind of way.

I can meet and talk to my elected officials, the mayor's children go to my children's schools, they're active in the PTA and support extracurricular activities.  It's an entirely different feeling and I couldn't have made a better decision for my family.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2024, 02:37:11 PM

Exactly how I feel about our move to Florida from Illinois.

The local policies in our town there were fantastic. Always had a surplus. 

Chicago and Springfield were the problem.

My town had the largest police force per capita in the country.

It became that big after the Brown's Chicken massacre. That site is now a Chase Bank but stood vacant for almost 30 years.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 29, 2024, 02:46:28 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2024, 01:55:29 PM

I couldn't live with myself if I ever skipped a vote. It's a right and a civic duty and I take it very seriously.

I actually became permanent vote-by-mail because I had a couple of elections that I ended up having last minute business trips but it was too late to register absentee. I remember watching the 2012 election results come in from a bar in Canada. 

That said, here in California I might as well not even fill out my ballot for President or Senate, for all the good it will do. I don't have a problem with the electoral college, but I know full well that it renders my vote completely and utterly pointless. 

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 29, 2024, 01:43:26 PM

youve got Trump Derangement Syndrome and Im afraid theres nothing anyone can do for ya

but I like the MAGA chances

Yes, because between the two of us, I'm sure *I'm* the one with the reputation on this board for knee-jerk uninformed ideological reactions to everything. :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 29, 2024, 02:48:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2024, 02:37:11 PM

It became that big after the Brown's Chicken massacre. That site is now a Chase Bank but stood vacant for almost 30 years.

I miss Brown's Chicken... Their deep fried mushrooms were fantastic. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 29, 2024, 02:52:54 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 29, 2024, 02:46:28 PM

 because between the two of us, I'm sure *I'm* the one with the reputation on this board for knee-jerk uninformed ideological reactions to everything. :57:

no need to attack

have you ever noticed that when someone disagrees with you they quickly become uninformed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2024, 03:00:38 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 29, 2024, 02:48:07 PM

I miss Brown's Chicken... Their deep fried mushrooms were fantastic.

They still are. And their coleslaw too!


(https://i.imgur.com/VK56pS7.jpeg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2024, 03:01:35 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 29, 2024, 02:46:28 PM

I actually became permanent vote-by-mail because I had a couple of elections that I ended up having last minute business trips but it was too late to register absentee. I remember watching the 2012 election results come in from a bar in Canada.

That said, here in California I might as well not even fill out my ballot for President or Senate, for all the good it will do. I don't have a problem with the electoral college, but I know full well that it renders my vote completely and utterly pointless.

Steve Garvey!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 29, 2024, 03:07:08 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 29, 2024, 02:52:54 PM

no need to attack

have you ever noticed that when someone disagrees with you they quickly become uninformed

No need to attack, when YOU called ME a sufferer of TDS? Was that not an attack?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 29, 2024, 03:30:03 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 29, 2024, 03:07:08 PM

No need to attack, when YOU called ME a sufferer of TDS? Was that not an attack?

yep you got me there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 29, 2024, 03:40:00 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q30Djc64LRo

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 29, 2024, 04:05:16 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 29, 2024, 02:46:28 PM

That said, here in California I might as well not even fill out my ballot for President or Senate, for all the good it will do. I don't have a problem with the electoral college, but I know full well that it renders my vote completely and utterly pointless.

Yeah, same here in Texico.  It is what it is, I suppose.  Which is precisely why I focus so much on local elections.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 29, 2024, 06:35:15 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 29, 2024, 12:20:03 PM

the dems have Brandon and the American would vote for my cat first rather then him

yes Brandon is doing everything he can to suppress the next election but it wont work

How is it that all of your opinions run contrary to what is?  There's exactly one party that would love to suppress voter turnout, and you're their victim member.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 29, 2024, 06:36:45 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 29, 2024, 01:43:26 PM

youve got Trump Derangement Syndrome and Im afraid theres nothing anyone can do for ya

but I like the MAGA chances

Do you have any original ideas?  You're a Fox News parrot, and it's embarrassing.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 29, 2024, 06:48:18 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 29, 2024, 06:36:45 PM

Do you have any original ideas?  You're a Fox News parrot, and it's embarrassing. 

would you like to make a sig bet on the next election

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 29, 2024, 07:45:49 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 29, 2024, 06:48:18 PM

would you like to make a sig bet on the next election

This is the exact reaction I expected.
It has nothing to do with the subject of my post.
JFC.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 29, 2024, 07:54:49 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 29, 2024, 07:45:49 PM

This is the exact reaction I expected.
It has nothing to do with the subject of my post.
JFC.

thats what I thought

all talk

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 29, 2024, 11:09:45 PM

The more I interact with you, the greater the chance I'll be called a bully.  
Pass.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 30, 2024, 12:12:35 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 29, 2024, 11:09:45 PM

The more I interact with you, the greater the chance I'll be called a bully. 
Pass.

its impossable for you to bully me

Mr All Talk

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2024, 12:40:08 AM

Correct.  You can't bully the oblivious.

I said accused of bullying.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 30, 2024, 01:38:19 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2024, 12:40:08 AM

Correct.  You can't bully the oblivious.

I said accused of bullying. 

is that like a life sentence in hell?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2024, 03:52:02 AM

How bout them Braves?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 30, 2024, 07:43:32 AM

The land of the free (for now), and the (former) home of the Braves!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 30, 2024, 08:37:49 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/kUQBDBg.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2024, 08:39:47 AM

probably wanted to enlist 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 30, 2024, 09:15:25 AM

Uh, yeah. OK.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2024, 09:18:17 AM

one man insurrection

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 30, 2024, 10:00:11 AM

It's more like an invasion.

California has experienced an increase in Chinese migrants (https://www.newsweek.com/california-surge-chinese-migrants-1865043) in recent years. There were approximately 15,700 Chinese migrant encounters at the U.S.-Mexico border in roughly the first three months of the current fiscal year, which began October 1. Those numbers already surpass the approximately 14,600 encounters in the entire 2023 fiscal year, according to CBP data.

Chinese Migrant Suddenly Found on California Military Base (newsweek.com) (https://www.newsweek.com/chinese-migrant-suddenly-found-california-military-base-1885133)


But yeah, the border is secure. Trust him.

(https://i.imgur.com/m9z4IcT.jpeg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2024, 01:02:53 PM

Wow, it's a miracle we're all still alive.  Being invaded by Mexicans, Central Americans, AND the Chinese!  

I guess we all better form a line at the edge of the farm and start loading our muskets!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on March 30, 2024, 03:36:00 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 29, 2024, 06:35:15 PM

How is it that all of your opinions run contrary to what is?  There's exactly one party that would love to suppress voter turnout, and you're their victim member.

Voter suppression?  What a joke. 

in Texas, we literally have weeks to vote with zero crowds. Then on voting day the longest I have waited is 30-45 minutes. You only have to be registered, obviously, and have a valid ID. 

if you can’t meet this criteria, imo, maybe you just shouldn’t vote. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2024, 03:46:53 PM

if you don't care enough to register and obtain an ID

ya just don't care enuff

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2024, 08:09:32 PM

Quote from: Gigem on March 30, 2024, 03:36:00 PM

Voter suppression?  What a joke.

in Texas, we literally have weeks to vote with zero crowds. Then on voting day the longest I have waited is 30-45 minutes. You only have to be registered, obviously, and have a valid ID.

if you can’t meet this criteria, imo, maybe you just shouldn’t vote.

Thanks for the anecdotal sample size of one.  Totally negates my point.  Darn.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2024, 05:28:19 AM

California fast-food workers will get $20 minimum wage, starting Monday : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2024/03/30/1241451631/california-fast-food-20-minimum-wage)

Setting aside the concept of whether there should be any MW at all, my "solution" would be to set it nationally at the highest it's ever been adjusted for inflation (1968) and attach a COLA and remove it from political 'discussion" on the national level.

I'd not such increases might not help workers much if they get fewer hours and/or find they have to pay more for goods and services because of this increase.

I support the concept of higher pay for workers rather than executives, but am not sure this is the best way to that.  Maybe it is.  It's already expensive in that state for most things.  MW in say Mississippi could well be lower with the same overall impact.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 31, 2024, 07:52:11 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2024, 08:09:32 PM

Thanks for the anecdotal sample size of one.  Totally negates my point.  Darn.

Verified mail-in voting here. In-person voting for weeks. Just need an ID.

That's voter suppression in a red state in action!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 31, 2024, 07:53:52 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 31, 2024, 05:28:19 AM

California fast-food workers will get $20 minimum wage, starting Monday : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2024/03/30/1241451631/california-fast-food-20-minimum-wage)

Setting aside the concept of whether there should be any MW at all, my "solution" would be to set it nationally at the highest it's ever been adjusted for inflation (1968) and attach a COLA and remove it from political 'discussion" on the national level.

I'd not such increases might not help workers much if they get fewer hours and/or find they have to pay more for goods and services because of this increase.

I support the concept of higher pay for workers rather than executives, but am not sure this is the best way to that.  Maybe it is.  It's already expensive in that state for most things.  MW in say Mississippi could well be lower with the same overall impact.

I say no minimum wage at all. Let the market dictate. It works.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2024, 07:55:59 AM

Sure, but it's not practicable to go to no MW, so I suggest a compromise.  I think folks on "each side" vie for absolutes instead of seeking compromise.  I suspect politicians who try and compromise don't get reelected.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 31, 2024, 08:06:35 AM

Let the free (well, it used to be free) market decide.

Should we have a maximum price on cars? Houses? Meat? T-shirts?

No.

Minimum wage in FL is now $12 and will be $15 by 2026.

The McD's in town put out a sign for workers. Now hiring: $14/hour minimum to start.

The BK next door, just a couple of days later, put up a $15/hour sign.

Culvers pays $17/hour to start.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 31, 2024, 08:18:43 AM

The American Egg Board (AEB) was created by an Act of Congress in 1976 at the request of America’s egg farmers, who desired to pool resources for national category-level egg marketing.

Home to The Incredible Egg and Egg Nutrition Center, AEB is dedicated to increasing demand for all U.S. eggs and egg products. For more than 40 years, America’s egg farmers have supported this mission by funding the AEB. The AEB is 100 percent farmer-funded, and those funds directly support the research, education and promotion necessary to market eggs.


We are honored to serve America’s egg farmers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2024, 08:35:24 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 31, 2024, 07:52:11 AM

Verified mail-in voting here. In-person voting for weeks. Just need an ID.

That's voter suppression in a red state in action!

You're a smart person.  
You're also being dishonest, pretending that not having an ID is the big deterrent to suppressing votes.
Thus, you make having the conversation unworthy of my time.

Once you're being honest and refrain from cherry-picking nonsense, then we can talk.
Don't be a shill.  Be thorough.  Be honest.  Be worthwhile.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2024, 08:36:34 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 31, 2024, 07:53:52 AM

I say no minimum wage at all. Let the market dictate. It works for the few, while the many suffer in severe poverty.

Fixed it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2024, 08:37:26 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 31, 2024, 07:55:59 AM

Sure, but it's not practicable to go to no MW, so I suggest a compromise.  I think folks on "each side" vie for absolutes instead of seeking compromise.  I suspect politicians who try and compromise don't get reelected.

This.
Today, compromise = weakness.  
That's how bad things are.  That's how broken our system is.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2024, 08:38:37 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 31, 2024, 08:18:43 AM

The American Egg Board (AEB) was created by an Act of Congress in 1976 at the request of America’s egg farmers, who desired to pool resources for national category-level egg marketing.

Home to The Incredible Egg and Egg Nutrition Center, AEB is dedicated to increasing demand for all U.S. eggs and egg products. For more than 40 years, America’s egg farmers have supported this mission by funding the AEB. The AEB is 100 percent farmer-funded, and those funds directly support the research, education and promotion necessary to market eggs.


We are honored to serve America’s egg farmers.

See?
It took an act of Congress to make the idea of a "breakfast food" a reality.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2024, 08:48:27 AM

I'm pretty sure folks ate eggs for breakfast here (and abroad as well) long before 1976.  I know I did.  My high school breakfast was 4 fried eggs, grits, toast, OK, and milk.  

I think most folks have an ID, and those who don't can still vote using other means of identification.  Maybe it's a hindrance for a handful of people out there, I dunno.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 31, 2024, 08:52:07 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 31, 2024, 05:28:19 AM

California fast-food workers will get $20 minimum wage, starting Monday : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2024/03/30/1241451631/california-fast-food-20-minimum-wage)

I support the concept of higher pay for workers rather than executives, but am not sure this is the best way to that.  Maybe it is.  It's already expensive in that state for most things.  MW in say Mississippi could well be lower with the same overall impact.

Exactly cut the Golden Parachutes,the nonsense where they run businesses into the ground and walk away richer than the combined workforce should land them in leg Irons.This just made the idea of stopping for a quick cheap meal unreachable. And the idiots - I mean real idiots running the government and economy into the ground should be joinging the afore mentioned in shackles

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2024, 08:58:15 AM

I tend to be cautious about having government tell private companies how to operate, e.g., "No golden parachutes", much as that concept does get abused.

I'd rather have a silk parachute if I needed one, or nylon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 31, 2024, 09:00:06 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2024, 08:38:37 AM

See?
It took an act of Congress to make the idea of a "breakfast food" a reality. 

Yep, a congress with a D supermajority in both chambers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 31, 2024, 09:04:33 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2024, 08:35:24 AM

You're a smart person. 
You're also being dishonest, pretending that not having an ID is the big deterrent to suppressing votes.
Thus, you make having the conversation unworthy of my time.

Once you're being honest and refrain from cherry-picking nonsense, then we can talk.
Don't be a shill.  Be thorough.  Be honest.  Be worthwhile.

WTF is wrong with having an ID in order to vote?

American citizens* are required to have an ID to enter the country from abroad. You must have one to fly. You must have one to drive. You must have one to get a loan. You must have one to do just about anything. That's honest and worthwhile. Now you try it.

* Does not apply to foreigners

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 31, 2024, 09:04:38 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2024, 08:38:37 AM

See?
It took an act of Congress to make the idea of a "breakfast food" a reality. 

not sure why congress would be worried about an egg marketing agency

apparently, they didn't have better things to do back in 76

were they saving the nation from low levels of Cholesterol?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 31, 2024, 09:05:28 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2024, 08:36:34 AM

Fixed it.

F'd it up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 31, 2024, 09:12:01 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 31, 2024, 09:04:33 AM

WTF is wrong with having an ID in order to vote?

American citizens* are required to have an ID to enter the country from abroad. You must have one to fly. You must have one to drive. You must have one to get a loan. You must have one to do just about anything. That's honest and worthwhile. Now you try it.

* Does not apply to foreigners

Suffrage continues to be especially restricted on the basis of age and citizenship status in many places. In some countries additional restrictions exist. In Great Britain and the United States a felon might lose the right to vote. As of 2022, Florida felons with court debts may not vote.
_________________________
having an ID is the easy way to show your not restricted

If the issue is that it is too difficult to obtain an ID then that problem should be solved.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2024, 09:26:10 AM

I think "both sides" try and stir up issues around voting, with considerable success.  It's another attempt to divide.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on March 31, 2024, 09:36:50 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 31, 2024, 08:48:27 AM

I'm pretty sure folks ate eggs for breakfast here (and abroad as well) long before 1976.  I know I did.  My high school breakfast was 4 fried eggs, grits, toast, OK, and milk. 

Cold pizza not good enough

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 31, 2024, 09:50:31 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 31, 2024, 09:04:33 AM

WTF is wrong with having an ID in order to vote?

American citizens* are required to have an ID to enter the country from abroad. You must have one to fly. You must have one to drive. You must have one to get a loan. You must have one to do just about anything. That's honest and worthwhile. Now you try it.

* Does not apply to foreigners

Dont you see?
If someone has to have an ID to vote then its much harder for illegal aliens to vote 
why do you think Brandon has created an open border

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2024, 09:55:58 AM

I really suspect those here "illegally" try and stay under the radar and very very rarely register to vote (usually if so by accident).  They won't want any attention.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 31, 2024, 10:31:49 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 31, 2024, 09:55:58 AM

I really suspect those here "illegally" try and stay under the radar and very very rarely register to vote (usually if so by accident).  They won't want any attention.

There are currently 16 states (all of them red) where undocumented immigrants can get a drivers license

there are several red states where undocumented immigrants can vote in local elections

We better wake up

Right now the US has aprox 12 million undocumented immogrants and the are growing at about 2 million per year.

This is an invasion spearheaded by the dems and we better act before its too late

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 31, 2024, 10:39:57 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 31, 2024, 05:28:19 AM

California fast-food workers will get $20 minimum wage, starting Monday : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2024/03/30/1241451631/california-fast-food-20-minimum-wage)

Setting aside the concept of whether there should be any MW at all, my "solution" would be to set it nationally at the highest it's ever been adjusted for inflation (1968) and attach a COLA and remove it from political 'discussion" on the national level.

I'd not such increases might not help workers much if they get fewer hours and/or find they have to pay more for goods and services because of this increase.

I support the concept of higher pay for workers rather than executives, but am not sure this is the best way to that.  Maybe it is.  It's already expensive in that state for most things.  MW in say Mississippi could well be lower with the same overall impact.

I just don't buy fast food any more, and price increases after this goes into effect will just dig me in farther on that. It's not that I can't afford it; it's that it's not worth it. Most of it isn't very good, so if it's priced as high as it's getting, there's no point.

I'll probably make the occasional exception for In & Out, and there are some really good independent Mexican joints with drive-thru around here that I don't know if it's quite something I'd call "fast food" but it's certainly close, that I'll still hit when convenient. But outside of road tripping, the main fast food chains aren't going to see my business. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 31, 2024, 10:46:09 AM

There's a few really good independent Mexican joints with drive-thru in this area.

I don't stop by often, but when I do I wonder why I'm not a regular

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 31, 2024, 11:06:00 AM

We have a lot of authentic Mexican drive thrus, yet there is still enough room in the market for Taco Bell, Del Taco and Taco Time to all exist simultaneously, along with Chipotle, Cafe Rio, etc. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2024, 11:09:54 AM

Until the 1920s (https://bppj.berkeley.edu/2019/03/04/spring-2019-journal-noncitizen-voting-rights-in-the-united-states/), when there was a wave of anti-immigrant sentiment, 22 states and federal territories allowed noncitizens to vote in state elections. Now only a few jurisdictions in California, Illinois and Maryland — notably Chicago and San Francisco — allow some form of noncitizen voting. Some states, such as Ohio and Louisiana, in recent years have enacted constitutional bans on noncitizen voting.

A majority of states — 36 — requests or requires voters to show some sort of identification when they vote, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Increasingly, states also are seeking ways to require proof of citizenship to vote or are considering ways to update voter lists to eliminate any noncitizens. 



I'm personally fine with legal noncitizens voting in local elections.  They pay taxes, their kids go to school, etc.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2024, 11:21:01 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 31, 2024, 10:31:49 AM

there are several red states where undocumented immigrants can vote in local elections

I only see this in certain voting districts, not states as a whole.  I may have missed one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 31, 2024, 11:23:54 AM

just to be clear Im not against legal immigrants in any way

Im against illegal immigrants being forced down our throuts to keep the dems in power

I do feel however that only citizens should be allowed to vote

Yes legal immigrants pay taxes for which they receive benefits

Let them go the correct route to citizenship and then they can vote

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 31, 2024, 11:26:09 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 31, 2024, 11:23:54 AM

Im against illegal immigrants being forced down our throuts to keep the dems in power

so, how are these illegals keepin the Dems in power if they're not allowed to vote?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 31, 2024, 11:31:20 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on March 31, 2024, 11:26:09 AM

so, how are these illegals keepin the Dems in power if they're not allowed to vote?

Its a step at a time

First flood the country with undocumented immigrants

then very slowly get them drivers licenses and vote in local elections then comes general amnesty

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 31, 2024, 11:32:58 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 31, 2024, 11:21:01 AM

I only see this in certain voting districts, not states as a whole.  I may have missed one.

yes you are correct I didnt mean a whole state just areas within the red state

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2024, 01:03:55 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 31, 2024, 11:31:20 AM

Its a step at a time

First flood the country with undocumented immigrants

then very slowly get them drivers licenses and vote in local elections then comes general amnesty

You figured out the master plan.....


(https://media1.giphy.com/media/10Jpr9KSaXLchW/200w.gif?cid=6c09b9528ilh03b00c96a2iq1s7c7fshhheoabuuw1xd8x2z&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 31, 2024, 01:09:04 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2024, 01:03:55 PM

You figured out the master plan.....


(https://media1.giphy.com/media/10Jpr9KSaXLchW/200w.gif?cid=6c09b9528ilh03b00c96a2iq1s7c7fshhheoabuuw1xd8x2z&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g)

pretty obvious 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2024, 01:10:44 PM

There's nothing wrong with requiring an ID to vote.  But that's not what voter suppression is.  But you don't want to have that conversation, you want to dwell on IDs.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2024, 01:11:04 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 31, 2024, 01:09:04 PM

pretty obvious

The world you live in and the actual world are radically different.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 31, 2024, 02:01:20 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2024, 01:11:04 PM

The world you live in and the actual world are radically different. 

what world would open the border and let their country drown in drugs terrists and taking away fair elections

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on March 31, 2024, 02:04:26 PM

Re: minimum wage, I'm much less interested in it than I used to be. People have much more access to information than they used to, so they are more well equipped to avoid getting screwed. Also, I'm strongly against the idea of trying to fix minimum wages onto things like Uber driving. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on March 31, 2024, 02:31:56 PM

ask Minneapolis

my liberal daughter is not happy about the attack on uber

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on March 31, 2024, 03:51:49 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2024, 08:09:32 PM

Thanks for the anecdotal sample size of one.  Totally negates my point.  Darn.

Ok then Mr Smarty. How do you suppress voters ?  

Weeks to vote, all day every day. 

Please don’t tell me requiring or having a valid ID is voter suppression.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2024, 03:57:27 PM

Quote from: Gigem on March 31, 2024, 03:51:49 PM

Please don’t tell me requiring or having a valid ID is voter suppression.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't read any posts following my response to yours.  
You're welcome.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on March 31, 2024, 04:05:43 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2024, 03:57:27 PM

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't read any posts following my response to yours. 
You're welcome.

3-4 pages after yours,  no I didn’t read them. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on March 31, 2024, 04:09:29 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2024, 03:57:27 PM

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't read any posts following my response to yours. 
You're welcome.

I just went back and re-read. Nothing but smart ass comments and vague references. 

Typical. 

My personal belief is that there are shenanigans on both sides ( vote harvesting, voter suppression). 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2024, 04:50:13 PM

Rubbin's racin'

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2024, 04:50:36 PM

Quote from: Gigem on March 31, 2024, 04:09:29 PM

I just went back and re-read. Nothing but smart ass comments and vague references.

Precisely what this warrants, lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 31, 2024, 09:12:48 PM

This is an example of what happens when you have a President who cant lead


https://www.newsweek.com/mexico-wants-biden-pay-20-billion-stop-migrants-1858294

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: CatsbyAZ on March 31, 2024, 10:04:46 PM

🌈 Before it's over, wanted to show off the magnificent rainbow arching over San Diego Harbor on this fitting Easter Day:

(https://i.imgur.com/md4neUZ.jpeg)

🌈 Another angle giving broader view of the faint double bow:

(https://i.imgur.com/DLEUl5m.jpeg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on March 31, 2024, 11:18:39 PM

Last couple pages of this thread = 

(https://i.imgur.com/GnFtmIW.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on March 31, 2024, 11:35:55 PM

well like thats your opinion man

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 05:00:20 AM

I'm going to drag out my golf clubs for a trip up into the mountains next week, I have not played in a decade or more.

Staying at some golf resort in NC.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 05:18:25 AM

I gotta believe the short interest on the new Trump stock "DJT" is huge.  I'm looking at some put options on it, but they are expensive because everyone else is as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on April 01, 2024, 07:01:53 AM

Russian assassination unit linked to Havana syndrome and the US allegedly covered it up because they don't want to confront Russia.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/5-year-havana-syndrome-investigation-finds-new-evidence-of-who-might-be-responsible-60-minutes/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/5-year-havana-syndrome-investigation-finds-new-evidence-of-who-might-be-responsible-60-minutes/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 07:19:05 AM

Tax the rich!!

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-income-taxes-top-1-percent-irs-tax-foundation-joe-biden-fair-share-3394355b?st=imntnctqmzl5jg4&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 07:34:22 AM

I've noted before how the truly wealthy don't need any taxable income (they usually will have some, but don't need to).  So, their tax rates are inherently going to be low, or even zero.  Imagine I own a hundred million dollars in Apple stock.  I need say $2 million a year for my lifestyle.  I borrow off my stock holding that $2 million tax free.  I can do this for a long time especially if the stock appreciates.  I may pay 5% interest or so, maybe less.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 07:39:34 AM

 So for the billionaire class, what's really important is how much their wealth grows in a given year. The rest of us, we have income, and we need income to live. But for the billionaire class, they don't actually need income. They avoid income. If you avoid income, you avoid taxes. And so it turns out that the billionaire class pays much less in tax than average people. And what we found is that Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk and Michael Bloomberg and Carl Icahn, they literally, in recent years, paid zero in federal income tax. And what you do is you let your mountain of wealth grow over time. You let Amazon stock grow. Or if you're Warren Buffett, you let Berkshire Hathaway go up and up and up. And you never sell. And if you never sell, you don't take any income.

And how are these people living if they don't sell? Well, often, what they do is they borrow against their wealth. And if you're borrowing against your wealth, that's not taxed. So ultimately, what we found was that the ultrawealthy in this country, they had wealth growth of $400 billion from 2014 to 2018, and they paid about $14 billion in taxes. And so average people pay roughly 15% in federal income taxes effectively, and the ultrawealthy paid 3.4% when compared to their wealth growth.


How the ultrawealthy devise ways to not pay their share of taxes : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2022/08/25/1119412217/how-the-ultrawealthy-devise-ways-to-not-pay-their-share-of-taxes)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 08:07:09 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 07:34:22 AM

I've noted before how the truly wealthy don't need any taxable income (they usually will have some, but don't need to).  So, their tax rates are inherently going to be low, or even zero.  Imagine I own a hundred million dollars in Apple stock.  I need say $2 million a year for my lifestyle.  I borrow off my stock holding that $2 million tax free.  I can do this for a long time especially if the stock appreciates.  I may pay 5% interest or so, maybe less.

Yes, we all know this and wish we were in that space.

Did you read the article?

The top 1% of earners pay almost half of the total revenue the IRS collects.

That's the point. The rich ARE being taxed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 08:23:02 AM

I make some distinction between the "rich" and "high income earners".  My glib definition of the former is "folks who need no taxable income".

Oddly enough, though, the US tax code is rather progressive as compared with most European tax codes which tend to hit the middle class much harder than in the US.  That's where one can raise the most tax revenue the easiest, in effect.  The overall tax on the middle class in Scandanavia is quite high when one includes the VAT.


How Scandinavian Countries Fund Social Programs | Tax Foundation (https://taxfoundation.org/blog/scandinavian-social-programs-taxes-2023/#:~:text=In 2021%2C the tax wedge,OECD average of 34.6 percent.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 08:25:51 AM

Ahh, Europe.

Utopia!

There is a big difference between being rich and being wealthy. We've discussed this at length in the past. The top 1% earners are rich, but possibly not wealthy. If they are both, that's great.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 08:31:08 AM

It's an interesting point, I think, about how we tax here vs Europeans.  It's also interesting how little corporate tax contributes to the overall.  


(https://i.imgur.com/djH8hf8.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 08:41:29 AM

Imagine, dream on, that the various political "parties"  in the US actually compromised on various issues like immigration, tax and SS reform, climate change, health insurance, education, crime, gun control, minimum wage, whatever.  Neither side would get everything, the extremes on each side would be screaming (let them), 

I think "we" would be less active, less willing to donate funds and time to "our side", less vocal on SM, etc.

Each party would lose influence, power, control.

Dream on.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 08:47:12 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 08:31:08 AM

It's an interesting point, I think, about how we tax here vs Europeans.  It's also interesting how little corporate tax contributes to the overall. 


(https://i.imgur.com/djH8hf8.png)

I'd like to know more about the background on this table.

For example, all corporations much contribute the other half of every employee's SS tax and Medicare tax. Where does that show up here? If it doesn't, it's very misleading.

Aside from our payroll, these contributions are our largest cost.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 09:00:05 AM

It should be incuded in the social insurance cost bar as that would reflect ALL such taxes, including those paid by employers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 09:04:27 AM

So, corporate taxes are more like 18% - not 6%.

Employees who work for corporations are paid and pay income taxes.

Corporations are evil?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 09:13:37 AM

Yeah, total corporate tax contributions would be greater.  It should say "corporate income taxes".

There is certainly a "feeling" that all corporations are evil, even though some are nonprofits.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 09:26:26 AM

Corporations are generally not evil. Of course, there are some. FTX comes to mind.

Unelected bureaucrats and government employees make up most of the evil in this country. 

Teacher unions are right there too, and AFSME.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2024, 09:27:39 AM

and the Sooners

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 09:38:54 AM

I thought my company was amoral, some of the higher level folks were what I'd consider immoral.  To get to that higher level almost required a person to do things I viewed as immoral, there were some exceptions.  I think if companies could "get away with it", most would do scketchy things for profit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 09:44:33 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 09:38:54 AM

I thought my company was amoral, some of the higher level folks were what I'd consider immoral.  To get to that higher level almost required a person to do things I viewed as immoral, there were some exceptions.  I think if companies could "get away with it", most would do scketchy things for profit.

Much of the amoral behavior is caused by tax codes. They need some fixing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 01, 2024, 09:59:07 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 05:18:25 AM

I gotta believe the short interest on the new Trump stock "DJT" is huge.  I'm looking at some put options on it, but they are expensive because everyone else is as well.

So you think its over valued?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2024, 10:01:19 AM

absolutely 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 01, 2024, 10:02:36 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 07:34:22 AM

I've noted before how the truly wealthy don't need any taxable income (they usually will have some, but don't need to).  So, their tax rates are inherently going to be low, or even zero.  Imagine I own a hundred million dollars in Apple stock.  I need say $2 million a year for my lifestyle.  I borrow off my stock holding that $2 million tax free.  I can do this for a long time especially if the stock appreciates.  I may pay 5% interest or so, maybe less.

as Ive pointed out sooner or later you would have tostart paying it off you can only do this for so long

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 01, 2024, 10:03:41 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 01, 2024, 10:01:19 AM

absolutely

not asking the pot stirrer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2024, 10:05:22 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 01, 2024, 10:02:36 AM

as Ive pointed out sooner or later you would have tostart paying it off you can only do this for so long

unless the stock just keeps going up

such as Berkshire

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 01, 2024, 10:11:21 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 01, 2024, 10:05:22 AM

unless the stock just keeps going up

such as Berkshire

you still have a debt burden to attend to or it would increase every year up to a point to become prohibitive

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 10:12:31 AM

Not if the stock goes up more than the rate of interest obviously, which is not uncommon.  And basically, with a billion in net assets, you're never going to run dry before you die.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 01, 2024, 10:14:22 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 10:12:31 AM

Not if the stock goes up more than the rate of interest obviously, which is not uncommon.  And basically, with a billion in net assets, you're never going to run dry before you die. 

then why borrow at two million a year with a billion nest egg theres no need

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 10:17:43 AM

To avoid paying income taxes.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 10:18:56 AM

Greed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 10:19:57 AM

I consider it smart money management, which is why it's prevalent among the wealthy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2024, 10:22:19 AM

avoiding taxes is smart

we should all be doing that

lawfully

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 01, 2024, 10:24:22 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 10:17:43 AM

To avoid paying income taxes. 

what taxes are you avoiding when you borrow instead of living off your own money?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2024, 10:37:45 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 09:04:27 AM

So, corporate taxes are more like 18% - not 6%.

Employees who work for corporations are paid and pay income taxes.

Corporations are evil?

I don't know that I'd say that... I think the chart is much more accurate putting them as "social insurance taxes" rather than corporate taxes. They're VERY different from a "corporate income tax". They're paid on behalf of the employee by the corporation, of course, but that's mostly an accounting trick to hide the actual cost of those programs from taxpayers. Since they only see the portion that shows up on their pay stub / W-2, they think those programs are half as costly as they truly are. 

Now, the one area I would quibble with is that social insurance taxes, whether paid by the employee or employer, are basically just "income taxes", and there's limited value in separating them out from that. Because they are by definition 15.3% of an employee's income (up to a limit for SS, which is 12.4% of that, of course). 

But for the purposes of the chart, I can understand why they're separating the two. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 10:38:53 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 01, 2024, 10:24:22 AM

what taxes are you avoiding when you borrow instead of living off your own money?

Any monies you withdraw from various accounts are taxed as income.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 10:40:14 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2024, 10:37:45 AM

I don't know that I'd say that... I think the chart is much more accurate putting them as "social insurance taxes" rather than corporate taxes. They're VERY different from a "corporate income tax". They're paid on behalf of the employee by the corporation, of course, but that's mostly an accounting trick to hide the actual cost of those programs from taxpayers. Since they only see the portion that shows up on their pay stub / W-2, they think those programs are half as costly as they truly are.

Now, the one area I would quibble with is that social insurance taxes, whether paid by the employee or employer, are basically just "income taxes", and there's limited value in separating them out from that. Because they are by definition 15.3% of an employee's income (up to a limit for SS, which is 12.4% of that, of course).

But for the purposes of the chart, I can understand why they're separating the two.

As the owner of a corporation, I find the table misleading.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2024, 10:41:19 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 01, 2024, 10:24:22 AM

what taxes are you avoiding when you borrow instead of living off your own money?

Income taxes and/or capital gains taxes. This isn't "money" in a bank account. It's shares of stock. There are two ways for a billionaire business owner get "paid":

• Take a multi-million dollar annual salary from the company you own. 
• Sell some of your billions in stock holdings.

They avoid #1 because it incurs income taxes. They avoid #2 because it incurs capital gains. They do this by borrowing against their stock holdings, which funds their life without either. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2024, 10:49:43 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 10:40:14 AM

As the owner of a corporation, I find the table misleading.

As the owner of a corporation, you're smarter than this. I think you're just triggered because, as the owner of a corporation, you think the purpose of the chart is to show that corporate taxes are too low. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 10:59:07 AM

Say I own $100 million in some stock.  I need say $2 million a year for my lifestyle.  I could sell stock and pay LT capital gains taxes on it which could be 30% if I reside in California.  OR, I could borrow, and pay 5% interest on it, per year.

Many owners of larger businesses who are "wealthy" prefer to retain their level of ownership of the business rather than selling it.  They can do this by borrowing, which avoids any income taxes.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 11:01:20 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2024, 10:49:43 AM

As the owner of a corporation, you're smarter than this. I think you're just triggered because, as the owner of a corporation, you think the purpose of the chart is to show that corporate taxes are too low.

I do think that. 

If anything, show the corporate and individual contributions to social stuff separately. I'd be satisfied with that. 

It would be an eye-opener for those who don't understand that their employers are paying their fair share. So many people don't get this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2024, 11:21:15 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 11:01:20 AM

I do think that.

If anything, show the corporate and individual contributions to social stuff separately. I'd be satisfied with that.

It would be an eye-opener for those who don't understand that their employers are paying their fair share. So many people don't get this.

Got it. We're aligned on that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2024, 11:22:51 AM

many people don't want to get it

us against them mentality

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2024, 11:27:53 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 01, 2024, 11:22:51 AM

many people don't want to get it

us against them mentality

Well, it's just the subtle subterfuge of government. 

They've set it up so that most people end up thinking each spring about how much they "got back" from the government that year. Never about how much they actually paid. They've turned tax filing into a HAPPY time of year.

This is the same. They think "they" pay 7.3% of their income for SS/Medicare and the employer portion (if they realizes it exists) is paid by "someone else"--when in reality if the government made the tax 15.6% entirely on the employee, it would just cause employees to demand higher wages to cover it. The total cost of an employee to their employer probably wouldn't change much after the market settled and adjusted to the change. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 11:37:27 AM

Lots of people (many more than not) think corporations are evil.

Where would people work if there were no corporations?

Not everyone can suck off the government. There would no way to fund it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2024, 11:39:25 AM

most don't think of corporations the size of Badger's as the EVIL corps

small corporations and small businesses aren't the evils

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 11:43:27 AM

Hollywood is replete with stories about evil corporations and corporate types.  It creates the impression of course.

I was just reading a John Grisham book "The Appeal", the corporation in it is very evil, I actually got bored with it, it's just too predictable.  I think now he's mostly writing tripe with some social message, I have not liked his books of late.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2024, 11:45:27 AM

well, there is some history of truth based on actual evil corporations

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 01, 2024, 11:47:19 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 10:38:53 AM

Any monies you withdraw from various accounts are taxed as income.

ya I just got bent over for moving my own money around,didn't withdraw a cent.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 11:49:16 AM

John Grisham is a misguided, talented writer.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 11:51:58 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 01, 2024, 11:47:19 AM

ya I just got bent over for moving my own money around,didn't withdraw a cent.

That happens to me all the time. You just hope the move pays off. Most of mine have turned out OK, but sucks having to pay taxes on money you never touched, aside from moving it.

Just doing a quick estimate, movement of monies last year cost me probably $25K in taxes. I'll be writing a check soon.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 01, 2024, 11:52:57 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 11:37:27 AM

Lots of people (many more than not) think corporations are evil.

Where would people work if there were no corporations?

Not everyone can suck off the government. There would no way to fund it.

Careful 847 a certain bent bedouin with bolshevik leanings will be by to correct thee

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 01, 2024, 11:53:30 AM

In the example your 100 million in stock example only works if you stay invested in your current stock and it goes up

I would say the vast number of large investors make their money by buying and selling so that would trigger taxes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 11:54:05 AM

I'm not sure how "moving money around" is taxable, unless it's coming out of an untaxed account like an IRA.

I transfer funds fairly often between accounts, and it's not taxable unless it's from my IRA.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 01, 2024, 11:55:30 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 11:54:05 AM

I'm not sure how "moving money around" is taxable, unless it's coming out of an untaxed account like an IRA.

I transfer funds fairly often between accounts, and it's not taxable unless it's from my IRA.

buying and selling stocks is probably what he means

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 11:58:42 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 01, 2024, 11:53:30 AM

In the example your 100 million in stock example only works if you stay invested in your current stock and it goes up

I would say the vast number of large investors make their money by buying and selling so that would trigger taxes

It helps if the stock appreciates, yes.  But, one can do this for a long time even if the stock price stays flat, or goes down.  And yes, INVESTORS will tend to buy and sell stock, ergo the term.  I'm not really talking about those folks, even if they are wealthy.  (And investors of course also can avoid income taxes using some other kinds of tactics if they wish, often as not.)

I'm speaking about wealthy people who may have inherited or may have worked early for some startup that made it big.  The fact is, this is a pretty common tax dodge, and entirely legal.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 11:59:57 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 11:54:05 AM

I'm not sure how "moving money around" is taxable, unless it's coming out of an untaxed account like an IRA.

I transfer funds fairly often between accounts, and it's not taxable unless it's from my IRA.

I have a sizable investment account that is not a retirement account. When you move money and incur gains on it, you pay taxes whether you take the money or simply reallocate it.

That stems from being self-employed and being limited on how much I could contribute to our 401K plan. Owners cannot have more money in the 401K then the employees. When the employees don't contribute (younger ones don't), it limits the owners.

So, the investment plan is it.

My Roth has been maxed every year for the past 30+ years. Made sure to do that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2024, 12:02:17 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 01, 2024, 11:53:30 AM

In the example your 100 million in stock example only works if you stay invested in your current stock and it goes up

I would say the vast number of large investors make their money by buying and selling so that would trigger taxes

We're not talking about large investors--we're talking about ultra-rich corporate guys. Guys like Bezos, Musk, Buffett. 

These guys aren't making their personal fortunes by moving their stock around. It's all in their own companies. 

Borrowing against it also has another advantage--as directors of their companies, they have to publicly report any stock purchases or sales in their own stock. Which always causes outside speculators to wonder "why is he selling??? what does he know???" Which can move the stock in itself. You can somewhat get around that if you have a very open and planned consistent sales, i.e. you sell a certain amount of stock every quarter and it's a planned distribution. But if you just borrow against your stock, you don't have to worry about that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 12:14:47 PM

This is a major undertaking. Unreal to think about. 

Auxiliary channel to Baltimore port expected to open Monday (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/auxiliary-channel-to-baltimore-port-expected-to-open-monday/ar-BB1kT7cB?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=179fa29996eb4df593aa5fa014e3cd54&ei=17)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 01, 2024, 12:48:25 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 11:59:57 AM

I have a sizable investment account that is not a retirement account. When you move money and incur gains on it, you pay taxes whether you take the money or simply reallocate it.

That stems from being self-employed and being limited on how much I could contribute to our 401K plan. Owners cannot have more money in the 401K then the employees. When the employees don't contribute (younger ones don't), it limits the owners.

So, the investment plan is it.

My Roth has been maxed every year for the past 30+ years. Made sure to do that.

I love to buy and sell stocks from my 401k account cause all gains are tax deferred

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 01:12:27 PM

401K's generally don't work for self-employed people. It didn't for me, hence the investment account.

I think about liquidating it from time to time to buy rental property(s).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2024, 01:28:13 PM

but, you don't want to be referred to as a "slumlord" and you don't need the headaches?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 01:37:34 PM

I wouldn't buy that kind of property. Probably another house or townhouse in here, where I live, so I can see it. Definitely not a condo. Condo HOA's are ridiculous down here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 01:44:27 PM

We;re getting hit with an assessment here.  It's not too bad, but the previous "board" spent money on optics and the lobby updating, and apparently our mechanical stuff needs replacing.  I see so many opinions on it, I decided not to vote yay or nay.  Our monthly fees are high, but I feel like I do "get stuff" for it.  

The previous board president moved out, down the street to another condo, because he was taking so much verbal abuse over it.  I got along with him fine.

We probably should spend the money, but some folks are saying there is a better way to do it.  And some folks claim without evidence that the previous board used "friends" to do the work.  I keep my head down.

I was musing yesterday I don't even remember how the lobby looked before the update, I guess it looks OK now, but the infrastructure would have been a better priority,

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2024, 01:50:35 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 01:12:27 PM

401K's generally don't work for self-employed people. It didn't for me, hence the investment account.

I think about liquidating it from time to time to buy rental property(s).

I'll almost certainly liquidate my 401K and put it into more real estate when I can do so without penalty.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 01, 2024, 02:07:14 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 12:14:47 PM

This is a major undertaking. Unreal to think about.

Auxiliary channel to Baltimore port expected to open Monday (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/auxiliary-channel-to-baltimore-port-expected-to-open-monday/ar-BB1kT7cB?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=179fa29996eb4df593aa5fa014e3cd54&ei=17)

I read somewhere that the piece of bridge that is currently sitting on the ship weigh approximately 9 million pounds. That is insane.

I've seen attempts to compare this with the 35W bridge here in Minneapolis. While both ended with the truss bridge in a twisted heap on the ground, that's where the comparison ends.

The remnants of 35W were recovered mostly onshore with the Corps of Engineers drawing down the level of the Mississippi River and bringing the flow down as low as possible. Badge may know more about the nature of the channel here than I do due to his USCG captaincy, but this salvage operation is hauling considerably more steel out of a lot of salt water unprotected from the elements. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 02:16:39 PM

Those waters are a little salty. Maybe 5 percent, if that, so nothing like the Sunshine Bridge that went down in 100 percent salt water.

695 is pretty far from the South end of the Bay and there are a ton of tributaries dumping fresh water into it. Virginia Beach is 100 percent and the farther you go up the Bay, the salt content rapidly goes down. Tide can also play a big part.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 02:18:46 PM

What is the most surprising to be is the lack of fortification around such an important bridge. 

It had to be about money. The people who made that decision have some explaining to do here, in my opinion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 01, 2024, 02:57:31 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 02:18:46 PM

What is the most surprising to be is the lack of fortification around such an important bridge.

It had to be about money. The people who made that decision have some explaining to do here, in my opinion.

That is indeed a question to be asked. However, they are almost certainly dead.

On top of that, assuming the ship was loaded to around 92,000 deadweight tons, would a tight spread of dolphins have worked? I certainly hope that it would, but...

Quote

Still, others feel that the force of the ship, given its size and weight, would overcome even the type of protection systems being built in Delaware with a direct hit.
When asked whether dolphin barriers that size would have averted a collapse in Baltimore, Khalid M. Mosalam, a structural engineer and professor of civil engineering at the University of California, Berkeley, said “probably not.”
Mosalam said he and a colleague ran calculations based on estimating the ship’s speed and weight that resulted in an impact force that would have overwhelmed those barriers.
“I’m not sure if any practical system (or even retrofit of the bridge) would have been efficient or even practical to prevent this disaster,” he said.

https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/key-bridge-dolphins-fender-protection-3LZVAL7HDVHBXAEF4G5LBFWZHE/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 03:04:23 PM

I don't know if they are dead. Maybe? It opened in 1977. 

Surely there are meeting minutes from the design meetings.

I'd like to know more.

Would dolphins have helped? I've read opinions that say yes, and also ones that say no. 

But could it hurt? That answer is a hard no.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2024, 03:12:01 PM

could have been added later, right?
wouldn't have to be part of the original design

I'd guess there has been a couple major maintenance events since 77

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on April 01, 2024, 03:38:02 PM

My question is...for the ultra rich who just borrow against their stock or whatever....they do eventually have to pay the bill.  You can't just keep rolling loans over forever.  So when and how do they eventually pay back the loans?  Buffet is like 85 years old...no way he's just been rolling loans for 60 years.  

Elon Musk had to pay a tax bill either last year or year before in the billions.  

Either way, those bellyaching about the rich not paying their fair share sometimes miss the point that the federal gov't really doesn't need their money anyways, because all they will do is waste it and run up more debt.  What the Feds need is some kind of check/balance system for keeping the gov't in some semblance of financial responsibility. 

Not keep running up the tab on "American People Express".  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 03:40:54 PM

They can borrow forever if the stock appreciates enough or is just huge.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on April 01, 2024, 03:42:19 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 03:40:54 PM

They can borrow forever if the stock appreciates enough or is just huge. 

And the bank gets paid when?  When they croak?  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2024, 03:48:17 PM

the bank gets an origination fee on the loan and any interest accrued 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2024, 03:49:17 PM

Bankers get paid better than the Fed government

because the banker doesn't allow stupid loopholes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 01, 2024, 04:32:59 PM

Opened 1977, 3 years of construction, which puts design from ~1970-72. Junior staff on the design would be in their mid-70s nowadays.

As for the effectiveness of the dolphins, they would have taken some of the kinetic energy out of the ship. But in this case, inertia is a cruel mistress. With that much tonnage aboard, the ship would almost have to be completely at rest at contact in order to not knock the bridge down.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2024, 05:13:20 PM

Quote from: Gigem on April 01, 2024, 03:38:02 PM

My question is...for the ultra rich who just borrow against their stock or whatever....they do eventually have to pay the bill.  You can't just keep rolling loans over forever.  So when and how do they eventually pay back the loans?  Buffet is like 85 years old...no way he's just been rolling loans for 60 years. 

Elon Musk had to pay a tax bill either last year or year before in the billions. 

Either way, those bellyaching about the rich not paying their fair share sometimes miss the point that the federal gov't really doesn't need their money anyways, because all they will do is waste it and run up more debt.  What the Feds need is some kind of check/balance system for keeping the gov't in some semblance of financial responsibility.

Not keep running up the tab on "American People Express". 

their stock appreciates...they then secure new loans at super low interest rates to pay off the old loans. rinse. repeat. 

banks are dying for not only the family/private banking business of people like Bezos, Musk, Buffett, Gates, etc., etc., but what they want even more is the corporate banking business of the companies they control/have massive sway over. 

these aren't regular people. the big banks cater to them like you would not believe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2024, 05:18:30 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 05:18:25 AM

I gotta believe the short interest on the new Trump stock "DJT" is huge.  I'm looking at some put options on it, but they are expensive because everyone else is as well.

shorting the stock of a dude who has followers in an almost cult-like religion is dangerous. ask the shorts who got wiped shorting Tesla with Elon Musk. That crazy shorting was before he bought Twitter and proceeded to publicly sh*t all over the Biden admin, the branch Covidians, and before all the shitlib blue-anons that used to worship him and lick the sweat from his balls started to hate him of course.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2024, 05:26:49 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on April 01, 2024, 07:01:53 AM

Russian assassination unit linked to Havana syndrome and the US allegedly covered it up because they don't want to confront Russia.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/5-year-havana-syndrome-investigation-finds-new-evidence-of-who-might-be-responsible-60-minutes/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/5-year-havana-syndrome-investigation-finds-new-evidence-of-who-might-be-responsible-60-minutes/)

JFC the media is still going on with this bullsh*t debunked into infinity "Havanna Syndrome"? 


:043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2024, 05:31:00 PM

dude,  some woman had surgery on her ear!
there were pictures!!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2024, 05:38:41 PM

of course the rich pay the most in tax. duh: they have all the god damn wealth. lol. but even if we "taxed the rich" - there still would not be enough money to keep up with the insane spending of the federal government. we're still running deficits. study after study has shown this.

I do tend to agree with Warren Buffett when he says it's not right that his secretary pays a higher % of her income in taxes than he does. That does not seem quite right to me. The way we tax doesn't seem right at all to me. Perhaps a VAT tax or consumption tax is the way to go. Also think some money from property taxes should go to the federal gov't- which provides a military to protect your property from would be foreign actors- the state doesn't do that. And if you really want to do something about climate change and "taxing the rich" - slap hefty taxes on private jets, megayachts, mansions over 10,000 sq ft (who the F**K needs a house bigger than this- even if you have 10 kids)- you know- excesses in consumption.

Social security and healthcare obviously need massive overhauling in this country. Not quite sure what the solution is there. But what we're doing, ain't working. Feels pretty stupid to me that the US doesn't have a sovereign wealth fund either. Most countries have them. Some states in the US have them, and they are relatively small- but the federal government doesn't. Would seem to make a lot of sense to me that we start one. We should have a soverign wealth fund with trillions in AUM by now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2024, 05:41:49 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 07:34:22 AM

I've noted before how the truly wealthy don't need any taxable income (they usually will have some, but don't need to).  So, their tax rates are inherently going to be low, or even zero.  Imagine I own a hundred million dollars in Apple stock.  I need say $2 million a year for my lifestyle.  I borrow off my stock holding that $2 million tax free.  I can do this for a long time especially if the stock appreciates.  I may pay 5% interest or so, maybe less.

yup. that plus don't forget the foundation/non-profit angle. Bill Gates' sweaty ass has been playing that angle for years to avoid paying taxes. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2024, 05:42:29 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 08:25:51 AM

Ahh, Europe.

Utopia!

There is a big difference between being rich and being wealthy. We've discussed this at length in the past. The top 1% earners are rich, but possibly not wealthy. If they are both, that's great.

Europe is awesome to visit, great to live in if you're rich. Other than that, the place sucks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2024, 05:47:32 PM

Smart guy.

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 01, 2024, 05:42:29 PM

Europe is awesome to visit, great to live in if you're rich. Other than that, the place sucks.

My new Director is from Venezuela, and has family in Spain where he has also spent many years of his life.  He doesn't brag but to live the lifestyle he does in Spain, his family has got to be wealthy.

And even then, he much prefers the USA in general and Texas specifically.  He talks about the socialist countries and how they just lull you to sleep, strip away your motivation to actually produce anything.  He describes it as "a prison... a beautiful prison."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2024, 05:49:51 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2024, 09:26:26 AM

Corporations are generally not evil. Of course, there are some. FTX comes to mind.

Unelected bureaucrats and government employees make up most of the evil in this country.

Teacher unions are right there too, and AFSME.

corporations aren't evil. governments aren't evil. people are evil. it's the people in them that are evil, which in turn make them evil. and it usually boils down to: power and greed. the more powerful and more money a corporation has the more prone it is to abusing it's power and participating in evil. this is why it's usually the very largest, most profitable corporations on earth which are typically the most fcked up, vile corporations on planet earth- and the people who run them are often corrupt assholes. governments are no different. the unelected bureaucrats in the US have WAY too much fcking power and the US gov't needs to be chopped in like half. we need to eliminate a bunch of federal agencies and lay off a ton of bureaucrats which are largely ineffective and mostly corrupt. the US gov't was never intended to be this large or have this many agencies or bureaucrats. for MOST of our history we had few agencies and bureaucrats, these are all new inventions of the last 75 years or so. they don't need to be around forever, they don't have a right to exist, they are NOT the government- they are agencies the elected government chartered and allows to exist- and we can vote a new government in who would promise to throw them to the trash bin of history if we wish.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2024, 05:54:40 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 01, 2024, 05:47:32 PM

Smart guy.My new Director is from Venezuela, and has family in Spain where he has also spent many years of his life.  He doesn't brag but to live the lifestyle he does in Spain, his family has got to be wealthy.

And even then, he much prefers the USA in general and Texas specifically.  He talks about the socialist countries and how they just lull you to sleep, strip away your motivation to actually produce anything.  He describes it as "a prison... a beautiful prison."

And Spain is one of the cheaper countries to live in Europe believe it or not. UK, France, Germany, pretty much all the Scandinavian countries- good bit more expensive. If I lived in Europe it would probably be the mediterranean coast in Spain or in Italy. Not just cheaper cost of living than the northern countries, but weather is obviously much better. So is the food. 

America is the only place I would ever live. I love this god damn place. And you don't realize how great we have it and how f'ing lucky we are until you get out and see other parts of the world.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2024, 05:56:41 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 01, 2024, 09:59:07 AM

So you think its over valued?

of course it is lol. few stocks on the NASDAQ or NYSE aren't. the question isn't is it over valued, question is by how much. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2024, 06:08:32 PM

Feds widening their probe into Sean "P Diddy" Combs. Looking into his shooting incident at a nightclub in New York in 1999 where he may of have used his then much less famous at the time girlfriend Jennifer Lopez as a gun mule.

https://nypost.com/2024/03/30/us-news/diddy-boasted-he-shot-people-used-j-lo-as-gun-mule/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on April 01, 2024, 06:14:59 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 01, 2024, 05:38:41 PM

of course the rich pay the most in tax. duh: they have all the god damn wealth. lol. but even if we "taxed the rich" - there still would not be enough money to keep up with the insane spending of the federal government. we're still running deficits. study after study has shown this.

I do tend to agree with Warren Buffett when he says it's not right that his secretary pays a higher % of her income in taxes than he does. That does not seem quite right to me. The way we tax doesn't seem right at all to me. Perhaps a VAT tax or consumption tax is the way to go. Also think some money from property taxes should go to the federal gov't- which provides a military to protect your property from would be foreign actors- the state doesn't do that. And if you really want to do something about climate change and "taxing the rich" - slap hefty taxes on private jets, megayachts, mansions over 10,000 sq ft (who the F**K needs a house bigger than this- even if you have 10 kids)- you know- excesses in consumption.

Social security and healthcare obviously need massive overhauling in this country. Not quite sure what the solution is there. But what we're doing, ain't working. Feels pretty stupid to me that the US doesn't have a sovereign wealth fund either. Most countries have them. Some states in the US have them, and they are relatively small- but the federal government doesn't. Would seem to make a lot of sense to me that we start one. We should have a soverign wealth fund with trillions in AUM by now.

No thanks to any more property tax to the feds. Or any kind of tax. We’re talking about the same institution that has a 3-4 trillion dollar budget and still fucks it up. And every other year the democrats blame the republicans for over spending , and then when they get in power they do the same , and the republicans cry foul but do the same every other election. 

Newsflash:  We don’t need anymore “ defense”. Our military budget is already many multiples higher than any other country on earth. Combined, almost. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2024, 06:19:13 PM

Quote from: Gigem on April 01, 2024, 06:14:59 PM

No thanks to any more property tax to the feds. Or any kind of tax. We’re talking about the same institution that has a 3-4 trillion dollar budget and still fucks it up. And every other year the democrats blame the republicans for over spending , and then when they get in power they do the same , and the republicans cry foul but do the same every other election.

Newsflash:  We don’t need anymore “ defense”. Our military budget is already many multiples higher than any other country on earth. Combined, almost.

a) none of your property tax goes to the feds. it's a local tax. my suggestion wasn't that the feds be in charge of collecting a property tax, or in charge of assessing it- keep it local- maybe add a small something to all across the board and kick it up to the fed. this is the United States of AMERICA, not the United States of some sh*tty little town in Kansas that you live in. JMO.

b) brother, you're preaching to the choir on the "defense" budget. I've railed against it for years. It's insane. We have the most costly and most advanced weapons system in the entire world and nearly 900 military bases all around the globe. We have like a few hundred alone encircling China. But we're suppose to be scared of them and everyone else. Lol.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2024, 06:34:18 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 01, 2024, 05:54:40 PM

And Spain is one of the cheaper countries to live in Europe believe it or not. UK, France, Germany, pretty much all the Scandinavian countries- good bit more expensive. If I lived in Europe it would probably be the mediterranean coast in Spain or in Italy. Not just cheaper cost of living than the northern countries, but weather is obviously much better. So is the food.

America is the only place I would ever live. I love this god damn place. And you don't realize how great we have it and how f'ing lucky we are until you get out and see other parts of the world.

Well, yeah.  From an infrastructure perspective, some parts of Spain and Italy are closer to third world than first. 
 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2024, 06:38:29 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 01, 2024, 06:34:18 PM

Well, yeah.  From an infrastructure perspective, some parts of Spain and Italy are closer to third world than first.

Same can be said of here, from infrastructure perspective some parts of the US are closer to third world than first....

I've traveled all around the major cities of Spain and Italy, they probably have better infrastructure than us here. Hey, I mean at least they have high speed trains! Now the islands, like Sicily or Ibiza? That's a different story.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on April 01, 2024, 06:42:07 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 01, 2024, 06:19:13 PM

a) none of your property tax goes to the feds. it's a local tax

No shit Sherlock. I don’t pay income tax to the state or county or city, and I damn sure don’t want anymore taxes going to the fed. The only tax I would be ok with increasing, very slightly, is the fuel tax because it hasn’t been raised in 30+ years and we need it for roads/infrastructure. And believe me, I spend $5-12,000 a month in fuel for my biz. So it would definitely be felt. 

My property tax goes toward school funding, county funding, and other local municipalities. I don’t even think any of it goes to the state , but I need to double check. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 02, 2024, 08:03:45 AM

I did not know Hawaii is not included in NATO's Article 5. It's the only state not included.

NATO's Hawaii Blindspot | Watch (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/nato-s-hawaii-blindspot/vi-BB1kTwAZ?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=382c76a1ee4347e5b68e677a1233b67d&ei=26)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 02, 2024, 08:28:05 AM

It was interesting being on very long bus rides and Egypt and Jordan last year, and then bus rides in Israel (two of them).

Europe has some very old "secondary" roads out there, maybe I should say "tertiary".  The RNs in France are usually fine, akin to US highways here.  If you get into the hinterlands, the roads get pretty dicey.  I agree the fuel tax should be increased, most of the tax is state, not Fed (18.5 cents on gasoline).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 02, 2024, 08:38:18 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 02, 2024, 08:03:45 AM

I did not know Hawaii is not included in NATO's Article 5. It's the only state not included.

NATO's Hawaii Blindspot | Watch (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/nato-s-hawaii-blindspot/vi-BB1kTwAZ?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=382c76a1ee4347e5b68e677a1233b67d&ei=26)

Cincy will be vacationing there next
man of danger

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 02, 2024, 08:44:49 AM

HELSINKI (AP) — A 12-year-old student opened fire at a secondary school in southern Finland on Tuesday morning, killing one and seriously wounded two other students, police said. The suspect was later apprehended.

Heavily armed police cordoned off the Viertola school — a large educational institution including lower and upper secondary schools with a total of about 800 students — in the city of Vantaa, just outside the capital, Helsinki, after receiving a call about a shooting incident at 09:08 a.m.

Police said both the suspect and the victims were 12 years old.

One of the students had died instantly after being shot, Chief of Police Ilkka Koskimäki from the Eastern Uusimaa Police Department told a news conference. The other two were seriously wounded, he said.

The weapon used in the shooting was a registered handgun that was licensed to the suspect’s relative, Koskimäki said.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 02, 2024, 09:46:20 AM

WTF is wrong with people.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2024, 10:55:27 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 02, 2024, 08:28:05 AM

It was interesting being on very long bus rides and Egypt and Jordan last year, and then bus rides in Israel (two of them).

a white man from America visiting those places? you have brass balls of steel my friend. I would love to visit Egypt, Jordan, and Israel, but I also value my life.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 02, 2024, 10:56:37 AM

he wasn't the only cracker on the bus

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 02, 2024, 11:02:01 AM

I never felt an iota of threat in Jordan and Egypt EXCEPT that when we landed in Aqaba, "they" took our passports, and then it was a very long day.  I had left my wallet in our cabin, so I had zero ID.  Then, our tour went quite late, and we were more than an hour late getting back to the ship.  

I had this fear the ship would depart on time, but as it was a tour provided by the cruise, they waited, and in fact said there were over 100 more people still out.  They don't leave without passengers on excursions booked through the cruise line.  So, there is that.  Otherwise, it was "safe" other than perhaps getting to close to a camel.

This was in Jordan, we got our passports back later and they were already stamped for entry into Egypt before we ported in Egypt.  The excursion there was over 8 hour, rather exhausting, long bus rides over uncertain roads to the Nile and back.

Israel at times felt a bit uncomfortable because there were serious looking IDF types in some places, especially inside old Jerusalem.  I wouldn't go to Israel today, but this was a year ago.  We also stopped in Oman, which also didn't feel at all unsafe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2024, 11:08:10 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 02, 2024, 08:03:45 AM

I did not know Hawaii is not included in NATO's Article 5. It's the only state not included.

NATO's Hawaii Blindspot | Watch (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/nato-s-hawaii-blindspot/vi-BB1kTwAZ?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=382c76a1ee4347e5b68e677a1233b67d&ei=26)

NORTH ATLANTIC treaty. Hawaii isn’t in the North Atlantic region, and it did not become a state until a decade after the NATO treaty was signed. 

And NATO wasn’t created for the defense of the US. It wasn’t really even created for defense purposes at all. It’s sole purpose for creation was as the first Secretary General of NATO Hastings Ismay said “to keep the Soviets out, the Americans in, and the Germans down.” Which it did. Served it’s purpose all the way up until the Soviet Union collapsed, and instead of scaling back, it grew like a weed. 

NATO is nothing but a tool of US imperialism and is used to maintain US based world order in Europe. And it’s worked quite effectively. Soviet Union fell, Russia is contained and on it’s toes, and Germany which was once one of the greatest military powers in the world is a sad shell of itself which takes marching orders from the US.  

I don’t see what the big deal is here to be honest. Nothing to see here folks.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 02, 2024, 11:19:54 AM

Alternate shipping channel opens after bridge collapse (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/alternate-shipping-channel-opens-after-bridge-collapse/ar-BB1kTVVQ?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=188a387e67184721b2539435fa85aad2&ei=23)

Plans for federal aid have yet to be announced, however Jean-Pierre told reporters that the White House is “going to certainly continue to talk to Congress to get some assistance here.”

*********************

This is the start of recovery. Good news. My only question:

Since when has this White House asked Congress to appropriate funds?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on April 02, 2024, 12:23:36 PM

I read somewhere else that this alternate channel only has a draft of 11 ft. so no cargo ships going through that.


https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/4569685-first-vessel-alternate-channel-baltimore-bridge/ (https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/4569685-first-vessel-alternate-channel-baltimore-bridge/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 02, 2024, 12:34:52 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on April 02, 2024, 12:23:36 PM

I read somewhere else that this alternate channel only has a draft of 11 ft. so no cargo ships going through that.


https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/4569685-first-vessel-alternate-channel-baltimore-bridge/ (https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/4569685-first-vessel-alternate-channel-baltimore-bridge/)

Yeah, what I read was that the channel was for salvage and recovery vessels to access the site, not for through commercial traffic.

The Corps of Engineers posted sonar images of the wreckage at the bottom of the channel. Yikes.

https://twitter.com/USACEBaltimore/status/1775140966455718181?s=20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 02, 2024, 12:57:57 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 02, 2024, 11:02:01 AM

Israel at times felt a bit uncomfortable because there were serious looking IDF types in some places, especially inside old Jerusalem.  I wouldn't go to Israel today, but this was a year ago.  We also stopped in Oman, which also didn't feel at all unsafe.

I think I'd feel pretty safe in Israel in general, as long as there aren't active hostilities going on as there are now. 

Truth is that no place is ever actually "safe". 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2024, 01:12:45 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 02, 2024, 12:57:57 PM

I think I'd feel pretty safe in Israel in general, as long as there aren't active hostilities going on as there are now.

Truth is that no place is ever actually "safe".

truth is Israel is an inherently unsafe place and will continue to be so until the Palestinian question is answered. Whether that's a two state solution (lulz..fantasy) or Israel pushing as many Palestinians out as they possibly can and annexing most or all of the occupied territories (most likely outcome). As long as Israel continues to break international law and illegally occupy and build new settlements on Palestinian territory- it will remain a dangerous place where terror attacks and war will break out in cycle after cycle for generations- as it has for like 8 decades now.

there may be no place that is ever actually 100% "safe" - but some places are much safer than others.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 02, 2024, 01:47:45 PM

I didn’t feel Israel was unsafe. Terror attacks there are rare in reality aside from the occasional brew up.  Statistically speaking. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 02, 2024, 01:58:41 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 02, 2024, 01:12:45 PM

there may be no place that is ever actually 100% "safe" - but some places are much safer than others.

Agreed. But we fear the things we don't know. As I brought up in another thread, people in the Midwest fear CA b/c of earthquakes but they just happen to "live with" tornadoes. People in CA fear the Midwest b/c of tornadoes but they "live with" the earthquake threat. 

People who went to that country concert in Vegas thought it was safe. People who were going to work at their jobs in the WTC towers on 9/11 thought it was safe. Students who went to Columbine HS that day in the 90s, and the parents that sent them, thought it was safe. 

I live in south Orange County which is "safe", but there are areas of OC that I wouldn't go at night. And then there was the time in the middle of the night that a crazy naked drunk (or drugged?) guy was going door to door and ended up on my front porch before the cops found him, in a nice quiet "safe" neighborhood--how many ways could that have ended badly? 

But yet everyone's scared of Israel. As I said, absent active hostilities, I wouldn't worry about it. If I'm going for a week, the odds of a terror attack happening when I'm there are already slim. The odds of it happening anywhere near where I am, given the size of the country, are slimmer. The odds of it happening locally enough to me that I might be affected are even slimmer. And even if it happens within, say, 1/2 mi of where I am, the odds that I'll be injured are killed are even slimmer than that. 

The big difference between Israel and someplace like Jordan or Egypt is that I know that in Israel I have virtually nothing to fear as a white American from the Israelis. In someplace like Jordan or Egypt I'd have something to fear from the locals, which is why CD ended up on a group tour on a bus rather than just strolling around the streets by himself. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on April 02, 2024, 02:10:14 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 02, 2024, 10:55:27 AM

a white man from America visiting those places? you have brass balls of steel my friend. I would love to visit Egypt, Jordan, and Israel, but I also value my life.

How do you know he's white?  It's racisist to presume.  

:smiley_confused1:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on April 02, 2024, 02:21:15 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 02, 2024, 10:55:27 AM

a white man from America visiting those places? you have brass balls of steel my friend. I would love to visit Egypt, Jordan, and Israel, but I also value my life.

I may have to actually schedule a different way to see these areas.  Twice now, I have had cruises that stop in Egypt and end in Israel cancelled. 

I wouldn't hesitate to go to any of those places

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2024, 02:52:29 PM

Quote from: Gigem on April 02, 2024, 02:10:14 PM

How do you know he's white?  It's racisist to presume. 

:smiley_confused1:

shoot, you got me. i'm a racist. the amazing racist.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 02, 2024, 02:57:59 PM

Quote from: Gigem on April 02, 2024, 02:10:14 PM

How do you know he's white?  It's racisist to presume. 

:smiley_confused1:

Well I've seen pictures of CD posted on this forum. He's either white or he's an albino PoC :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 02, 2024, 02:58:09 PM

I've met CD live in person. He is not white.

More like a tan or beige or maybe even a light peach.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2024, 02:59:22 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 02, 2024, 01:47:45 PM

I didn’t feel Israel was unsafe. Terror attacks there are rare in reality aside from the occasional brew up.  Statistically speaking.

don't get me wrong I'd love to visit there, but the problem is shit brews up every few years like clockwork, and Israel is a heavily militarized country with an extremist far-right government. Just me, but I'll pass on that until they get that government changed and the fundamental issue of Palestine resolved. I tend to like to visit places that are more stable, have less insanely far-right governments, are far less militarized and in a constant state of war, and that I don't have to even worry about for a second that some sh*t might go down. I have terrible luck. My luck, soon as I'd go there sh*t would hit the fan.

Lots of places I want to visit, very few that I actually will.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2024, 03:00:56 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 02, 2024, 01:58:41 PM

The big difference between Israel and someplace like Jordan or Egypt is that I know that in Israel I have virtually nothing to fear as a white American from the Israelis. In someplace like Jordan or Egypt I'd have something to fear from the locals, which is why CD ended up on a group tour on a bus rather than just strolling around the streets by himself.

tell that to Sacha Baron Cohen, a western white man (who is also jewish) who was almost beaten to death by a group of hasidic jews for the crime of walking down the street because he was dressed overly flamboyant and gay when he was filming his movie Bruno- where he plays a gay Austrian fashionista character. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 02, 2024, 03:08:13 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 02, 2024, 03:00:56 PM

tell that to Sacha Baron Cohen, a western white man (who is also jewish) who was almost beaten to death by a group of hasidic jews for the crime of walking down the street because he was dressed overly flamboyant and gay when he was filming his movie Bruno- where he plays a gay Austrian fashionista character.

I assure you I cannot pull off "fabulous", so I'm pretty sure I don't have to worry about that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 02, 2024, 03:19:07 PM

If they don't like me wearing my cargo shorts, running shoes, and Texas Longhorns baseball cap, they can go ahead and try to make a run at me...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 02, 2024, 03:26:27 PM

I'd also point that there are probably still more than a few places in the US that he might have gotten the same treatment...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 02, 2024, 03:26:43 PM

We did walk around about an hour in Egypt on free time. Nobody paid any attention.  They had a McDonalds there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 02, 2024, 03:51:46 PM

I view it in terms of probability, much as was mentioned earlier.  In a foreign country, USUALLY, nearly always, nobody cares about you either way, same as here.  Some gypsies in Paris have tried to get my attention, I am better at handling that now.  And of course, I live in a very urban area, being aware of surroundings is a good idea, especially at night, this is normal stuff.

I am pretty sure, e.g., high probability, we could visit Egypt on our own and have no issues.  Brazil, that's a different story, for me, Brazil in fact is dangerous.  Parts of Mexico?  Same thing of course, I've been in a couple, wouldn't do it that way again.

A meteor could fall on my head tomorrow of course, I don't worry about that for obvious reasons.  I'm not going to live my life cloistered because of some quite low probability of being harmed or killed somewhere if I'm interested and it seems to be reasonably safe.  

I wouldn't go to Lebanon or Syria, DUH, or Iran, or North Korea, I'm not anxious to go back to Brazil, but at least there we get driven around by folks who know the area.  Mexico?  Nope, not at the moment, I've been anyway.  

We're headed next year to some sort of sketchy places, Malaysia, India, Thailand, Qatar, the UAE,  I forget where all else.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 02, 2024, 04:00:01 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 02, 2024, 03:51:46 PM

We're headed next year to some sort of sketchy places, Malaysia, India, Thailand, Qatar, the UAE,  I forget where all else.

Ehh, I'm not sure most of those are bad. Malaysia is nice. I have heard India is quite dirty, but I haven't heard dangerous. Thailand doesn't want to kill you; they just want to $^@# you for money. Qatar and the UAE also don't want to kill you. They want to grow their "rich tourist" industry as well as their "center of international business" strategy and it's hard to do either if you get a reputation for killing rich tourists. 

You didn't mention Singapore but it's known for being VERY safe as long as you don't chew gum or spit in public. Then you might get the cane. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2024, 04:03:12 PM

so Israel just bombed an Iranian embassy in Damascus, Syria. That embassy by the way is literally right next door to the Canadian embassy. JFC the Israeli's really don't give two fcking sh*ts about international law or the rule of law and order. Takes some SERIOUS balls to airstrike an embassy, let alone one that is right next door to the Canadians. Likely with US drones and missiles no doubt. Biden admin will do zero about this. They'll probably just sell them more weapons actually. What's that? Oh yeah, President Shits-His-Diapers just announced he wants to give them another $18 billion (around $4 billion more than he was previously asking Congress for). WWIII here we come!

Have never seen a weaker, more ineffective US leader who commands absolutely ZERO respect from other world leaders like President Shits-His-Diapers in my life. Bibi basically gives him the finger at every turn, tells him to get fkt and fk off I'll do whatever the hell I want- and President Shits-His-Diapers just takes it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 02, 2024, 04:07:53 PM

Add to that Taiwan, Hong Kong, Vietnam, Singapore, and Sri Lanka, and I agree, all these places look pretty OK unless China decides, you know, ... and it starts in Seoul, so there's another flash point.  

It looks like a pretty neat cruise, to us anyway, 30 days.  Unless a meteor takes me out.

Brazil is really the only country I visited that concerned me, quite a bit more than Mexico.  Brazil was crazy.  

When my daughter lived in Manhattan, I walked from her place on 82nd to our hotel on 55th at night, about 11 PM.  I never felt in danger, a lot of people were out and about.  I might think about doing that again as things are today, or rather, think about not doing it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 02, 2024, 04:11:25 PM

The Israeli military told CNN it does not comment on foreign reports. However, a military spokesperson said Israel believes the target struck was a “military building of Quds forces” — a unit of the IRGC responsible for foreign operations.
“According to our intelligence, this is no consulate and this is no embassy,” Israel Defense Forces spokesperson Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari told CNN. “I repeat, this is no consulate and this is no embassy. This is a military building of Quds forces disguised as a civilian building in Damascus.”
Four unnamed Israeli officials acknowledged that Israel carried out the attack, the New York Times reported.


FYI, I obviously don't believe the above any more than I believe whatever Iranians are claiming at this point.  Maybe it was the consulate, maybe it wasn't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2024, 04:18:33 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 02, 2024, 04:11:25 PM

The Israeli military told CNN it does not comment on foreign reports. However, a military spokesperson said Israel believes the target struck was a “military building of Quds forces” — a unit of the IRGC responsible for foreign operations.
“According to our intelligence, this is no consulate and this is no embassy,” Israel Defense Forces spokesperson Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari told CNN. “I repeat, this is no consulate and this is no embassy. This is a military building of Quds forces disguised as a civilian building in Damascus.”
Four unnamed Israeli officials acknowledged that Israel carried out the attack, the New York Times reported.


FYI, I obviously don't believe the above any more than I believe whatever Iranians are claiming at this point.  Maybe it was the consulate, maybe it wasn't.

pretty much everything coming out of the state of Israel and the IDF is complete and utter bullsh*t right now....they commit atrocity after atrocity on the daily with complete impunity thanks to the backing of the US. this sounds like the exact same sh*t they say when they destroy hospitals and slaughter civilians....utter nonsense. 

it was an embassy, in a nation other than the one it was attacking- located right next to the Canadian embassy by the way. and if there are military personnel there- so what? every US embassy has military personnel on it....are those "military buildings".

US is already playing damage control pledging to the Iranians they had nothing to do with it, knew nothing about it. Even though it was likely done with US weapons systems. 

https://www.axios.com/2024/04/02/iran-embassy-syria-israel-strike-biden


(https://images.axios.com/MsJRkO4arpwWOLNXR8m9SwGJYLw=/0x0:1996x1123/1920x1080/2024/04/02/1712029409463.jpg?w=1920)

military building ^ lol. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 02, 2024, 04:21:38 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 02, 2024, 04:07:53 PM

Add to that Taiwan, Hong Kong, Vietnam, Singapore, and Sri Lanka, and I agree, all these places look pretty OK unless China decides, you know, ... and it starts in Seoul, so there's another flash point. 

It looks like a pretty neat cruise, to us anyway, 30 days.  Unless a meteor takes me out.

Brazil is really the only country I visited that concerned me, quite a bit more than Mexico.  Brazil was crazy. 

When my daughter lived in Manhattan, I walked from her place on 82nd to our hotel on 55th at night, about 11 PM.  I never felt in danger, a lot of people were out and about.  I might think about doing that again as things are today, or rather, think about not doing it.

Make sure you get a bowl of the Taiwanese national dish, beef noodle soup. It's fantastic. I recommend seeing a temple, the Chiang Kai-Shek museum, the Sun Yat-Sen museum, and going up to the top of Taipei 101 and seeing the tuned mass damper. Unfortunately if these are day excursions you probably can't visit the night market, which is a bummer. 

I think back to a couple times I walked around Shenzhen and Shanghai by myself, after visiting establishments and drinking, and thinking maybe that's not as safe as it seemed at the time. But they definitely were times that although I'm a white American, it helps to be a VERY LARGE white American. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2024, 04:25:24 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 02, 2024, 04:21:38 PM

Make sure you get a bowl of the Taiwanese national dish, beef noodle soup. It's fantastic. I recommend seeing a temple, the Chiang Kai-Shek museum, the Sun Yat-Sen museum, and going up to the top of Taipei 101 and seeing the tuned mass damper. Unfortunately if these are day excursions you probably can't visit the night market, which is a bummer.

I think back to a couple times I walked around Shenzhen and Shanghai by myself, after visiting establishments and drinking, and thinking maybe that's not as safe as it seemed at the time. But they definitely were times that although I'm a white American, it helps to be a VERY LARGE white American.

damn that sounds so good. now I'm hungry. Asian food is a top 3 food in the world imo. I'll go Italian, Middle Eastern, and Asian- not in any order. French and Indian round out the top 5 imo. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 02, 2024, 04:26:06 PM

I don't believe either side at this point, Israel or Iran.  It's possible it was a building near the Iranian embassy/consulate.  It's possible it was inside the embassy walls.  

I'll await more information.  I would guess the Israelis would not have gone after an embassy building without a lot of incentive of some sort.  The blow back could get bad.

But then, I am not one to jump on one side with both feet without a LOT of reliable information.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2024, 04:43:21 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 02, 2024, 04:26:06 PM

I don't believe either side at this point, Israel or Iran.  It's possible it was a building near the Iranian embassy/consulate.  It's possible it was inside the embassy walls. 

I'll await more information.  I would guess the Israelis would not have gone after an embassy building without a lot of incentive of some sort.  The blow back could get bad.

But then, I am not one to jump on one side with both feet without a LOT of reliable information.

you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. what are you even saying?

IDF did an air strike on an embassy compound. this is a fact. no one is disputing said fact. go online you can see plenty of videos of the destruction of the embassy compound and you can google map it- and it's right next door in the heart of Damascus to the....Canadian embassy. IDF just violated damn near every international law known to man and bombed an embassy in Syria order to try and assassinate high-ranking Iranian military personnel. whether there were military personnel at the embassy is immaterial...it's a fcking embassy...and every embassy has military personnel on it. can a nation bomb US embassy compounds and then claim "it's not an embassy, it's a military compound and we were trying to assassinate military targets" ummm.....hell to the fk no they can't.

there is no more information to await. it's beyond sad that US citizens are that propagandized they can't accept fact and reality that run counter to the narratives they have been propagandized and conditioned to wish to believe.

And of course the US just abstained from condemning Israel for the attack at the UN along with it's puppy dogs the UK & France.

Israel is just continuing down an insane path that makes it less safe. Iran will likely respond. And if they do, my sincere hope is the US stays out of it. That punk thug Netenyahu has been trying like hell to get the US to go to war with Iran for nearly 30 years. He might've just pulled it off.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2024, 06:31:02 PM

Israel should nuke Iran.  

Just stop this namby-pamby handfighting going on the last 60 years and get it over with, already.  
Honestly, just figure out who wins, once and for all.  Then we can all move on with our lives.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2024, 08:03:43 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2024, 06:31:02 PM

Israel should nuke Iran. 

Just stop this namby-pamby handfighting going on the last 60 years and get it over with, already. 
Honestly, just figure out who wins, once and for all.  Then we can all move on with our lives.

you same some awfully stupid things, but this one takes the cake. that is a fantastically terrible idea.

yeah, just nuke Iran. great idea. that'll solve it! hey, they should also just ramp up their war crimes to the next level and continue to ethnic cleanse the Palestinians and just annex the occupied territories while we're at it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 02, 2024, 08:58:02 PM

if a cruise line doesn't think it's safe, I'm out.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/places-the-us-government-warns-not-to-travel-right-now (https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/places-the-us-government-warns-not-to-travel-right-now)

Venezuela: Human rights abuses and lack of health care plague this South American nation, which has been in a political crisis since 2014. In 2019, diplomatic personnel were withdrawn from the U.S. Embassy in Caracas. Threats in the country include crime, civil unrest, kidnapping, wrongful detention and poor health infrastructure.

Yemen: Six of the nine risk factors defined by the State Department – terrorism, civil unrest, health risks, kidnapping, armed conflict and landmines – are all present in Yemen. Despite private companies offering tourist visits to the Yemeni island of Socotra, the U.S. government argues those arranging such visits “are putting tourists in danger.” Civil war and cholera are also both present throughout the country. The U.S. Embassy in Sanaa halted operations in 2015. The country has experienced a relative lull in the civil war fighting, but as peace negotiations have gotten traction, flare ups in the fighting have jeopardized progress. Most recently, the U.S. and U.K. have carried out a series of airstrikes in the country, targeting Iran-backed Houthi sites.

Other Countries to Watch

Since Jan. 1, the State Department has updated travel advisories for 17 different countries as well as for the West Bank and Gaza, adding information about specific regions or risk factors, or simply renewing an existing advisory. Travel advisory levels can change based on several factors in a nation, such as increased civil unrest, policies that affect human rights or higher risks of unlawful detention.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 02, 2024, 09:16:16 PM

The largest producer of fresh eggs in the U.S. said Tuesday it had temporarily halted production at a Texas plant after bird flu was found in chickens, and officials said the virus had also been detected at a poultry facility in Michigan.

Ridgeland, Mississippi-based Cal-Maine Foods, Inc. said in a statement that approximately 1.6 million laying hens and 337,000 pullets, about 3.6% of its total flock, were destroyed after the infection, avian influenza, was found at a facility in Parmer County, Texas.

The plant is on the Texas-New Mexico border in the Texas Panhandle about 85 miles (137 kilometers) southwest of Amarillo and about 370 miles (595 kilometers) northwest of Dallas. Cal-Maine said it sells most of its eggs in the Southwestern, Southeastern, Midwestern and mid-Atlantic regions of the United States.

“The Company continues to work closely with federal, state and local government officials and focused industry groups to mitigate the risk of future outbreaks and effectively manage the response,” the statement said.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 06:27:14 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 02, 2024, 04:43:21 PM

you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. what are you even saying?

IDF did an air strike on an embassy compound. this is a fact. no one is disputing said fact. go online you can see plenty of videos of the destruction of the embassy compound

I can't tell it's within some embassy compound.  I'm saying I find it better to wait a while before jumping to conclusions based on what Iran or Syria is claiming.  The same is true for whatever Israel is saying too.

It may well be Israel attacked the Iranian embassy, I just don't know at this point. I don't believe either side.  The photo below is, to me, unclear, as to what was damaged.

Israel hasn’t claimed responsibility for the attack but has argued that the target was a “military building of Quds forces” — a unit of the IRGC responsible for foreign operations. “This is no consulate, and this is no embassy,” Israel Defense Forces (IDF) spokesperson Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari told CNN.

(https://i.imgur.com/9Iv4035.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 06:30:05 AM

This is from wiki, which of course can be dubious, but we see competing claims.  Which is true?

On 1 April 2024, the Iranian consulate annex building adjacent to the Iranian embassy in Damascus was destroyed by an Israeli airstrike. Iranian ambassador Hossein Akbari alleged that the consulate building "was targeted with six missiles from Israeli F-35 warplanes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-35I)".[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Israeli_bombing_of_the_Iranian_embassy_in_Damascus#cite_note-14) Israeli officials claimed that the building was a legitimate military target as "an outpost of the Revolutionary Guards" that was disguised as a civilian consulate.[15] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Israeli_bombing_of_the_Iranian_embassy_in_Damascus#cite_note-15)[16] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Israeli_bombing_of_the_Iranian_embassy_in_Damascus#cite_note-16)

• (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Flag_of_Israel.svg/21px-Flag_of_Israel.svg.png) Israel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel): IDF spokesman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDF_Spokesperson's_Unit) Daniel Hagari (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Hagari) told reporters that, "According to our intelligence, this is neither a consulate nor an embassy." He further added that the target struck was a "military building of Quds forces disguised as a civilian structure in Damascus."^{[22] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Israeli_bombing_of_the_Iranian_embassy_in_Damascus#cite_note-22)} Minister of Defense (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Defense_(Israel)) Yoav Gallant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoav_Gallant) said that "Israel is working to make it clear to everyone who acts against us, all over the Middle East, that the price for acting against Israel will be a heavy price."^{[23] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Israeli_bombing_of_the_Iranian_embassy_in_Damascus#cite_note-23)}

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on April 03, 2024, 06:33:07 AM

Any location occupied by the enemy is a legitimate target.  Don't care if these IRGC officers were hiding under the Pope's bed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 06:34:59 AM

Legally, they are not, but "international law" is really a fiction, or whatever the winners decide it is.

I'm not sure what Iran can, or will, do here, that they are not already doing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on April 03, 2024, 06:50:44 AM

Any complaints from the world's largest sponsor of terror are at best comical. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 07:06:32 AM

Sure, in a way, but Iran will attempt to use this to whip up more frenzy in its minions, if that is possible.  Such things could hinder Iran's plans a bit by taking out top leaders, but enable them to foment more terrorism down the road.  It could be counterproductive.

I expect the UN to step in and use harsh language.

If the UN has any real purpose today, I'm not seeing it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 07:35:33 AM

It's interesting to me how some folks, many in fact, leap to conclusions based on confirmation bias.  They seem to think "their side" is always right and the other side always lies.  It's very akin to Ohio State and Michigan fandom.  If later information shades this in any way, they leap to making various excuses.  

I still don't know the status of that building in Damascus.  Looking at google maps, it is next to a building marked Iranian embassy and another marked Canadian embassy (nothing about a consulate, which would seem a bit odd to me to have next to an embassy, but maybe so(.  I don't see any walled in compound including both buildings.  So, I just don't know at this point.  It might well be an embassy residence next to the actual embassy.

But it certainly is possible it's part of the Iranian diplomatic mission.  I doubt Israel would much care if it was.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 03, 2024, 08:54:33 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/VF8AaHv.jpeg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 03, 2024, 08:59:23 AM

Prepare for your life to be changed forever.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 03, 2024, 09:06:15 AM

well, I rarely eat fast food, but I suppose there's a chance

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 03, 2024, 09:10:57 AM

You don't even live in Omaha.  Got any InO in Iowa?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 03, 2024, 09:17:05 AM

don't think so

Omaha will be the closest by far

I go through Omaha about once a month

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 09:27:47 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 03, 2024, 08:59:23 AM

Prepare for your life to be changed forever.

UTerin told me something like this about Buccees, as I noted, we stopped there once, I didn't really "get it".  The bathrooms were nice.

I've eaten at an IoO in CA and thought it was "OK", not particularly special, to me.  

I think at times, a person hears so much about a thing that the actual experience will come up short.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 03, 2024, 09:37:41 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 09:27:47 AM

UTerin told me something like this about Buccees, as I noted, we stopped there once, I didn't really "get it".  The bathrooms were nice.

I've eaten at an IoO in CA and thought it was "OK", not particularly special, to me. 

I think at times, a person hears so much about a thing that the actual experience will come up short.

Heh, I was being a tad facetious.  All of the California transplants told us this same thing about InO.  Turns out it's an average fast food burger joint with a lot of emotional/nostalgic attraction for Californians.

I only stop at Buccees when I'm towing the RV over long distances because it has vast, easily maneuverable lanes for its gas pumps, and it has really clean bathrooms.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 03, 2024, 09:54:55 AM

yup, I've had In & Out in Cali many years ago

I've been to Buccees

Neither impressed me

but, I have high standards

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 09:57:35 AM

Yup.  I know Atlantans who claim something similar about the Varsity here.  I hadn't been in eons, so I took my wife.  It's actually dated, not very clean, greasy over priced not very good "fast food" in a "unique" setting.  The funny thing is back in the day, ALL of the workers behind the counter were black, no exceptions, ever, now they are close to 50-50.

Anyway, i don't really recommend it.

The Varsity (https://thevarsity.com/)

(https://i.imgur.com/5G9XIS4.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 09:59:42 AM

We have some decent burger places in walking distance here, including my own kitchen or grill (which is the best of course).  There is a Shake Shack a block away, which I found to be "OK".  Farm Burger is probably our favorite, but Killer Burger is excellent as well, a bit further out, more like a short drive.  And there are some restaurants with usually over priced, like $20, burgers, though STK has or had a good value at $10, maybe they do now as well.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 03, 2024, 10:12:39 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 09:27:47 AM

I think at times, a person hears so much about a thing that the actual experience will come up short.

This is typically the problem with In-n-Out. People here talk so highly about it that you expect to walk in and have your mind blown. It's not mind-blowing. It's just a really good fast food burger. 

Quote from: utee94 on April 03, 2024, 09:37:41 AM

Heh, I was being a tad facetious.  All of the California transplants told us this same thing about InO.  Turns out it's an average fast food burger joint with a lot of emotional/nostalgic attraction for Californians.

It's a well above average fast food burger. Obviously years ago I wrote my treatise on In-n-Out (https://www.cfb51.com/big-ten/last-breaths-of-a-dying-season-soc-10618/msg73423/#msg73423). It is simply a fast food burger, priced as a fast food burger, but executed REALLY well with good fresh ingredients, unlike it's legitimate competition in the fast food burger category. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 10:25:09 AM

I personally didn't find it to be "really good".  It was decent, I had no complaints, but "really good" to me implies something exceptional, and to me, it was pretty ordinary.

I personally would be fine with having a Whopper in lieu of.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 03, 2024, 10:26:59 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 03, 2024, 10:12:39 AM

This is typically the problem with In-n-Out. People here talk so highly about it that you expect to walk in and have your mind blown. It's not mind-blowing. It's just a really good fast food burger.

It's a well above average fast food burger. Obviously years ago I wrote my treatise on In-n-Out (https://www.cfb51.com/big-ten/last-breaths-of-a-dying-season-soc-10618/msg73423/#msg73423). It is simply a fast food burger, priced as a fast food burger, but executed REALLY well with good fresh ingredients, unlike it's legitimate competition in the fast food burger category.

You can have your opinion and I'll maintain my own thank you very much.

I consider it to be better than McDonald's, Wendy's, Burger King.  I consider it to be worse than Whataburger, Culver's, Freddy's, and then a couple of local chains that are better than ANY of those.  So that makes it average, for me, in my location.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 10:30:21 AM

I don't like McDs for anything but breakfast, I'm OK with Whoppers and Wendys when we're traveling.  Whataburger is pretty good, to me, but we have very few around here.  Culver's, the one I tried, seems more a sit down kind of place.  It was OK.

If there was an I&O next to a BK, I'd probably choose the one on my side of the street.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 03, 2024, 10:35:02 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 10:30:21 AM

I don't like McDs for anything but breakfast, I'm OK with Whoppers and Wendys when we're traveling.  Whataburger is pretty good, to me, but we have very few around here.  Culver's, the one I tried, seems more a sit down kind of place.  It was OK.

If there was an I&O next to a BK, I'd probably choose the one on my side of the street.

Hmmm, maybe Culver's is different there.  Here, it's definitely a fast food, order at the counter, kind of place.  

Oh there's also the national chain Shake Shack, they opened some locations here, a few years ago.  I've never been so can't comment.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 10:37:32 AM

Shake Shack is OK, but the burger is more in the $7 range.  We dined at Culver's in Florida.  It seemed pricier than McDs, to me, next level up.

Then there is White Castle of course, which arguably is the worst burger being sold today, though Crystal is right there too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 03, 2024, 10:41:56 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 03, 2024, 10:26:59 AM

You can have your opinion and I'll maintain my own thank you very much.

I consider it to be better than McDonald's, Wendy's, Burger King.  I consider it to be worse than Whataburger, Culver's, Freddy's, and then a couple of local chains that are better than ANY of those.  So that makes it average, for me, in my location.

I think I've only been to Whataburger once, years ago, so cannot compare. Never been to Freddy's. 

I seem to remember Culver's the same way as CD. In addition, I thought it was more of an ice cream place. Not sure I've had their burger, but if I did, it was over two decades ago so I can't compare. 

One that arguably splits the line between "fast food" and "fast casual" that I believe to be significantly better than In-n-Out is Portillo's. Blows the doors off Five Guys too. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 03, 2024, 10:53:38 AM

Yeah we don't have Portillo's here, as far as I know, so no comment.

Agree that Five Guys is more fast casual than fast food.  I don't think it's all that great and apparently it's really expensive these days, I think you're the one that posted recent prices?  Whew, crazy.

We have a similar concept to Five Guys here locally in Austin and CenTex, called Mighty Fine, and I like it a lot better. But I'm not comparing it to fast food joints.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 03, 2024, 10:54:40 AM

To me the main difference in fast food burgers is whether they are cooked to order or not. Of the Nots, I'd probably say my favorite is Wendy's. Probably biased, being in Columbus. Of the cooked to order, Steak N Shake is surprisingly good, and so is Culver's. Never had In and Out, had Whataburger a long time ago and can't really remember much about it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 03, 2024, 11:00:47 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 03, 2024, 10:53:38 AM

Agree that Five Guys is more fast casual than fast food.  I don't think it's all that great and apparently it's really expensive these days, I think you're the one that posted recent prices?  Whew, crazy.

Admittedly all prices here in CA are crazy. A lot of times that I travel I'm surprised by the food prices. Five Guys just seemed especially crazy to me. 

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 03, 2024, 10:54:40 AM

To me the main difference in fast food burgers is whether they are cooked to order or not. Of the Nots, I'd probably say my favorite is Wendy's. Probably biased, being in Columbus. Of the cooked to order, Steak N Shake is surprisingly good, and so is Culver's. Never had In and Out, had Whataburger a long time ago and can't really remember much about it.

I also tend to prefer Wendy's over the alternatives from McD's and BK. But not enough to actually go eat there, given the crazy price increases we've seen here. Not worth it for what you get. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 03, 2024, 11:10:39 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 03, 2024, 11:00:47 AM

Not worth it for what you get.

Ain't that the truth.

My 14yo son loves fast food burgers, always begging for McDonald's or Wendy's or Whataburger or whatever.  So I had a very proud papa moment last night when he was hungry and begging for some crappy fast food, and I told him we were going to make a homemade burger that would blow away anything he could get at a restaurant, and cost less, too.

We had about 1/3 lb of ground beef leftover from something or other a couple nights before, and we had some hamburger buns in the pantry, and some cheese in the refrigerator.  I told him how to do it all, then made him throw the skillet on the burner, form the patty, season it, cook it to order (he wanted MW but now thinks he'd pefer M), add the cheese after flipping and tent a little foil to get it to melt nicely, butter and toast the bun on the skillet surface while letting the patty rest, and then throw on some lettuce, tomato, and whatever condiments he wanted.

He took his first bite and his eyes lit up and he said, "Dad, this is absolutely the greatest hamburger I've ever eaten."

So now I guess I'm gonna have to keep a lot more ground beef around the house...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 11:29:03 AM

We had burger last night, with my wife's cole slaw.  It was just the patty, no bun.  I spotted some day old 85-15 at Kroger half priced.

It's nearly as good a ssteak, to me.

We have Five Guys around here of course, I have not dined there in ages.  A good burger, no, a great burger, is just too easy to fix at home.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 03, 2024, 11:32:41 AM

And I guess our Culver's must be different than yours.  They do have ice cream but I wouldn't say it's marketed any more or less than Dairy Queen does (DQ is a burger place here, not solely the ice cream shop that you sometimes see around the country).  Here's the closest Culver's to me:

(https://i.imgur.com/5hvMqwL.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/o9hC297.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/rAIuhj9.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/smTo9in.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/PBZuQXj.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 03, 2024, 11:35:23 AM

Of course now I'm reminded of several more fast food burger chains I hadn't considered.  Dairy Queen, Sonic, Jack In The Box, and Carl's Jr/Hardees.  Man there sure are a lot of them.

Oh, and Checker Burger out in Florida.  For some reason I really liked those, when visiting my sister who lived there.  But I haven't had one in probably almost two decades.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on April 03, 2024, 11:36:16 AM

Best burger stand burger I ever had was a green chili burger about 40 years ago at Lucky Boy in Albuquerque.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 11:40:26 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 03, 2024, 11:32:41 AM

And I guess our Culver's must be different than yours.  They do have ice cream but I wouldn't say it's marketed any more or less than Dairy Queen does (DQ is a burger place here, not solely the ice cream shop that you sometimes see around the country).

That is exactly like the Culver's we tried for lunch in North Port.  I think because the seating area was pretty large I didn't think it overlapped with a McDs.  

We had just arrived and it's next to the motel.  I knew is was half decent.

There is a Portillo's across the street from where we stay in Orlando.  We tried it twice, I'd say that was enough, for me.  It was OK.

Of course, I dined at a 3 star Michelin place in January and didn't eat most of the food and the chef was eyeing me.  I eyed him back, and then walked outside.

There is a one star place that just relocated near us here, we stopped in to take a gander, they aren't open for lunch.  $205 per, pre fixe.  Holy Cow.  They encouraged us to bring our own wine as they don't have their permit yet, but holy cow, they have a $75 corkage fee.  That is insane.  I had some notion to try them.  Not now.

menu | Lazy Betty Atlanta

U (https://www.lazybettyatl.com/menu)tee and I and no doubt some others have had some "real" good meals in France, and often for a very reasonably price.  I'm making tacos here tonight.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 03, 2024, 11:40:57 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on April 03, 2024, 11:36:16 AM

Best burger stand burger I ever had was a green chili burger about 40 years ago at Lucky Boy in Albuquerque.

Yeah there's all sorts of local places that can blow the doors off the national chains.  I'm not really including those in the comparison, but I do love a local burger stand burger.  I really only eat chain food when we're on a road trip and trying to make a quick stop for lunch or something. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 03, 2024, 11:44:36 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 11:40:26 AM

U (https://www.lazybettyatl.com/menu)tee and I and no doubt some others have had some "real" good meals in France, and often for a very reasonably price.  I'm making tacos here tonight.

Amen, brutha.  So much good food and you don't have to go to a Michelin-starred restaurant to get it.  Just the neighborhood bistro very possibly has a highly trained chef with access to high quality locally sourced ingredients.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 11:45:33 AM

We used to have Hardee's and Burger Chef and a cheap place I can't remember, drive through only.  There is also Sonic, White Castle.  I'm not sure how some stay afloat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 03, 2024, 11:53:50 AM

Burger Chef has been gone from here since the early 80s, but I do remember it from my childhood.  They had an open salad bar where you could dress your own burger, choosing from lettuce, tomato, pickles, onions, and whatever else.  They were also the first chain to have a packaged kids' meal, even before McDonald's had the Happy Meal.

No White Castle or Crystal Burgers around here as far as I know.  I've had White Castle up north and I'm fine with never having it again...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 03, 2024, 11:55:34 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 03, 2024, 11:10:39 AM

So now I guess I'm gonna have to keep a lot more ground beef around the house...

And if you want to level up--grind it yourself. I usually go roughly even mix of brisket point and chuck roast, which leads to a REALLY nice fat content in there. Usually it's hard to find anything pre-ground at the supermarket with enough fat. Although I suppose you could ask them to custom grind something for you...

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 11:40:26 AM

There is a Portillo's across the street from where we stay in Orlando.  We tried it twice, I'd say that was enough, for me.  It was OK.

Although I really like the burger at Portillo's, I eat there rarely enough that I'm usually ordering a jumbo dog with everything. Err... Two of them, actually. It gets me my Chicago Dog fix. They have decent Italian Beef sandwiches too, but it was never my favorite place in Chicago for Italian Beef, so I usually stick with the hot dog. 

And if you go back, the cheese fries are key. The fries are good, but the fries with that cheese sauce are amazing. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 12:05:24 PM

Your Best Bet is THIS #Burger - the STK Signature Wagyu Burger, available for only $9.99 for takeout and delivery! Order now at… | Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/p/CSuLCqJshSr/?hl=en)

That one is in fact really good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: LetsGoPeay on April 03, 2024, 12:14:16 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 10:37:32 AM

Then there is White Castle of course, which arguably is the worst burger being sold today, though Crystal is right there too.

White Castle tastes better than most other laxatives. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 03, 2024, 12:20:44 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on April 03, 2024, 11:36:16 AM

Best burger stand burger I ever had was a green chili burger about 40 years ago at Lucky Boy in Albuquerque.

https://youtu.be/Awu7g7eQbdc

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 03, 2024, 01:09:05 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 03, 2024, 08:54:33 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/VF8AaHv.jpeg)

they need to open up In-N-Out in Florida already god damnit. Burgers are fantastic as far as fast food goes. Fries suck imo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 03, 2024, 01:39:24 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 06:34:59 AM

Legally, they are not, but "international law" is really a fiction, or whatever the winners decide it is.

I'm not sure what Iran can, or will, do here, that they are not already doing.

yeah, idk wtf you're going on about, but international law is not a fiction. it is a very real thing, to which the US and Israel are obligated to follow as signatories or parties to various international treaties.

some countries (US) are way too powerful to ever be held accountable for their actions and are even so powerful they can provide cover for their allies (Israel) fcked up heinous actions. 

 Iran will retaliate, and things will get more fcking crazy than they already are.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 03, 2024, 01:40:30 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 06:30:05 AM

This is from wiki, which of course can be dubious, but we see competing claims.  Which is true?

On 1 April 2024, the Iranian consulate annex building adjacent to the Iranian embassy in Damascus was destroyed by an Israeli airstrike. Iranian ambassador Hossein Akbari alleged that the consulate building "was targeted with six missiles from Israeli F-35 warplanes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-35I)".[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Israeli_bombing_of_the_Iranian_embassy_in_Damascus#cite_note-14) Israeli officials claimed that the building was a legitimate military target as "an outpost of the Revolutionary Guards" that was disguised as a civilian consulate.[15] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Israeli_bombing_of_the_Iranian_embassy_in_Damascus#cite_note-15)[16] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Israeli_bombing_of_the_Iranian_embassy_in_Damascus#cite_note-16)

• (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Flag_of_Israel.svg/21px-Flag_of_Israel.svg.png) Israel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel): IDF spokesman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDF_Spokesperson's_Unit) Daniel Hagari (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Hagari) told reporters that, "According to our intelligence, this is neither a consulate nor an embassy." He further added that the target struck was a "military building of Quds forces disguised as a civilian structure in Damascus."^{[22] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Israeli_bombing_of_the_Iranian_embassy_in_Damascus#cite_note-22)} Minister of Defense (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Defense_(Israel)) Yoav Gallant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoav_Gallant) said that "Israel is working to make it clear to everyone who acts against us, all over the Middle East, that the price for acting against Israel will be a heavy price."^{[23] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Israeli_bombing_of_the_Iranian_embassy_in_Damascus#cite_note-23)}

JFC man. For the last time, it was an embassy compound. 

Israel is lying, which is what any government does to try and justify it's actions. They are trying to play semantics saying because there were military personnel on the embassy compound, it's not an embassy. Newsflash: embassy compounds = diplomats, spies, and military personnel. Every single one, regardless of nation, and in every single nation. 

Air striking an embassy compound is a grave violation of international law and this will just create blowback and more instability and potential for larger war to breakout. Biden needs to grow a pair of balls get out of his nursing home pajamas and get Bibi on a fcking leash already. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 03, 2024, 01:47:24 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on April 03, 2024, 06:33:07 AM

Any location occupied by the enemy is a legitimate target.  Don't care if these IRGC officers were hiding under the Pope's bed.

yeah, how about no. Israel does not have a formal declaration of war against Iran- and even if they had- you don't go around bombing embassy compounds in other countries than the country you are aiming to attack. US does not even do this, and we bomb the sh*t out of everyone just for breakfast.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 03, 2024, 01:53:56 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 07:06:32 AM

Sure, in a way, but Iran will attempt to use this to whip up more frenzy in its minions, if that is possible.  Such things could hinder Iran's plans a bit by taking out top leaders, but enable them to foment more terrorism down the road.  It could be counterproductive.

I expect the UN to step in and use harsh language.

If the UN has any real purpose today, I'm not seeing it.

UN can't really do sh*t about sh*t because: the United States. Aside from having permanent veto power at the UN, we are just way too powerful militarily & economically to ever be held accountable for anything we do, and are even so powerful that we can provide cover for "friends of ours". It's like a big giant mafia, and the US is the king sh*t.

UN is basically worthless, but they do serve a function. They are like a marriage counselor trying to keep husbands from battering their wives by talking it out. They probably prevent much larger scale world wars from breaking out. So there's that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 01:57:23 PM

When was the last time international law held anyone to account?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 03, 2024, 01:59:47 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on April 03, 2024, 06:50:44 AM

Any complaints from the world's largest sponsor of terror are at best comical.

hate to break it to you pal, but the US is the world's largest sponsor of terror in the entire world, has been since the close of WWII and it's not even remotely fcking close. our gov't has created more havoc, destruction, and death in other countries around the globe with our military & intelligence services than basically every other country combined. it's actually scarily impressive just how powerful the US has been since close of WWII to the present. not sure any empire in history has ever been as downright scary or as powerful. 

i mean it's been great for the people who live here, we've reaped the benefits of world wide empire. been kinda sh*tty for most other countries though- and extremely sh*tty for anyone who doesn't fall in line and do what we say when we say. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 02:06:03 PM

I’m not convinced it was an embassy. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 03, 2024, 02:10:10 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 01:57:23 PM

When was the last time international law held anyone to account?

only small potatoes from poor countries in eastern europe, middle east, asia, africa, south america.

The major powers of the world: US, Russia, and China are all too powerful and all have veto power as permanent members of the UNSC and none of them recognize the ICC.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 03, 2024, 02:11:02 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 02:06:03 PM

I’m not convinced it was an embassy.

JFC man.....holy shit.........:043:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 03, 2024, 02:40:18 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 02:06:03 PM

I’m not convinced it was an embassy.

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 03, 2024, 02:11:02 PM

JFC man.....holy shit.........:043:

I'm convinced it was an embassy and I'm also convinced that it was also an Iranian military base running Iranian military operations under the protection of Iran's ally, Syria, from a much-closer range to their militaristic interests in Israel.

But it's also not unusual to stage special ops and even military operations from within an embassy, and it rarely leads to attacks.  It's always been understood that's a step too far.  So I agree that a direct attack on that militarized embassy is a tough action to defend, even if you know it's being used against you militarily, which history has proven is the exact thing Iran tends to do.

But what concerns me a lot more than Israel striking a known antagonistic militarized embassy that is almost certainly running operations against them, is what IDF did to the food/aid workers from the World Central Kitchen.  Systematically targeting and destroying an entire convoy of international civilian relief workers, as they're providing food to the starved Palestinians, is absolutely freaking terrible.  And the response has been near complete withdrawal of all food relief/aid in the area.  At this point it's hard not to question the intent of Israel, to think that they're intentionally preventing much-needed food from reaching the masses.  This is the one that makes me really, really angry.  They claim it's a mistake but the operation was a precision, surgical strike.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-68710515

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 04:49:40 PM

Can someone point out convincing evidence that building was part of the Iranian diplomatic embassy?

I failed to find any.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 03, 2024, 05:30:00 PM

hah, a "cork it" fee for a place that doesn't have a liquor license ????

The NERVE!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 05:33:36 PM

This is common for new places here before they get the license but not $75.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 03, 2024, 06:29:11 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 05:33:36 PM

This is common for new places here before they get the license but not $75.

I'd be tempted to bring a giant box of Franzia "Fruity Sangria" and tell them "cork this."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 03, 2024, 07:03:32 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 03, 2024, 11:35:23 AM

Of course now I'm reminded of several more fast food burger chains I hadn't considered.  Dairy Queen, Sonic, Jack In The Box, and Carl's Jr/Hardees.  Man there sure are a lot of them.

Oh, and Checker Burger out in Florida.  For some reason I really liked those, when visiting my sister who lived there.  But I haven't had one in probably almost two decades.

I was stoked when I saw a Rally's in Phoenix, being used to Rally's and Checkers in FL.  It's not some great thing, but I'm nostalgic for it because they'd throw us a few Checker burgers to eat during 3-a-day football practices in high school.  The fries are unique.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 03, 2024, 07:05:06 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 09:57:35 AM

Yup.  I know Atlantans who claim something similar about the Varsity here.  I hadn't been in eons, so I took my wife.  It's actually dated, not very clean, greasy over priced not very good "fast food" in a "unique" setting.  The funny thing is back in the day, ALL of the workers behind the counter were black, no exceptions, ever, now they are close to 50-50.

Anyway, i don't really recommend it.

The Varsity (https://thevarsity.com/)

(https://i.imgur.com/5G9XIS4.png)

100% spot-on

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 03, 2024, 07:09:05 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 02, 2024, 08:03:43 PM

you same some awfully stupid things, but this one takes the cake. that is a fantastically terrible idea.

yeah, just nuke Iran. great idea. that'll solve it! hey, they should also just ramp up their war crimes to the next level and continue to ethnic cleanse the Palestinians and just annex the occupied territories while we're at it.

It's not stupid, it's simply fast-forwarding to the end of the movie.  
Either the Jews will have a permanent state in the middle east or they won't.

Don't pretend decades of proxy-wars is any better.  It's just slower. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 03, 2024, 09:56:29 PM

sigh

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 04, 2024, 06:07:07 AM

I doubt we'll see any real peace in the ME in out lifetimes.  The area is set up for strife.  If one side is ascendant militarily, the other side will resort to "asymmetric means" to fight.  We often see the slogan "From the river to the sea" etc., but that literally would mean elimination of the Israeli state.  I can't see that happening.  Nor do I expect the "mullahs" and other influencers in the Arab states to decide enough is enough, many of them derive their power from the ongoing conflict.

As for one side nuking the other, well, that is an ultra simplistic nonsolution in my view.  Folks tend to view a nuclear weapon as being more destructive than it is, city busters, etc.  The Israeli nukes are probably in the 100-200 kiloton range, I'd guess, and probably weight 2,000 pounds, meaning they aren't that easy to get from A to B if much distance is involved.  And they may have 50 of them?  This presumes they are thermonuclear, which also isn't confirmed.

A country the size of Iran could withstand a complete nuclear attack by Israel and still have a lot left.  But this is entirely in the hypothetical range of course, not really worth much thought.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 04, 2024, 06:12:11 AM

As for the "embassy" attack, I find it a bit odd there isn't more in the news about it.  Some reports use the term "consulate", which to me sounds wrong.  It should be "embassy".  It definitely is a building next to the Iranian embassy, and could well be considered part of it, or not, which is my point above.  I don't see any wall or enclosure around both.  It's POSSIBLE it is an adjacent building the Iranians rent out that has no diplomatic status at al, and it's possible it's part of the embassy.  The "news" is unclear to me, or equivocal, or confusing, or just wrong (which is not a shock).

It's not a headline item on any major news source I peruse.  Most reports today are speculative about how iran will react, speculative meaning "Talking Heads are Guessing Again".

So, maybe it is, maybe it isn't, and maybe it doesn't matter much except legally, which also as noted doesn't really matter either.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 04, 2024, 06:30:51 AM

More than 800 pounds of meth seized from Stone Mountain home, DEA says – WSB-TV Channel 2 - Atlanta (wsbtv.com) (https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/dekalb-county/more-than-16-million-meth-seized-stone-mountain-home-dea-says/YV5ZORGAFVGJPGFHYKTXRHUQAU/?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3fNhPQh5RSeQZT1UmOl_r2WtLT7duyXc5Ir9GZT4AyfJRC0JesOrfu2pI)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 04, 2024, 07:39:36 AM

Interesting read.

My cargo ship briefly lost power at sea. Here's how merchant mariners are trained to deal with it. (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/my-cargo-ship-briefly-lost-power-at-sea-here-s-how-merchant-mariners-are-trained-to-deal-with-it/ar-BB1l0sEm?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=83fd0f552e1d49f7b89ac3ed6182c5e1&ei=34)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 04, 2024, 07:43:48 AM

Private colleges to cost up to $95,000 this fall | 11alive.com (https://www.11alive.com/article/news/nation-world/college-will-cost-up-to-95000-this-fall/507-6f503f6c-35c7-4b1f-9d92-67e990c14518?fbclid=IwAR2R-y5LtCKQ-EDEKtAFsiKS0lELT5dECUPiW7Bp6pA8lV4Xx_HJfdiGIPk)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 04, 2024, 09:11:22 AM

College is just... man.  I keep telling my kids that welding and plumbing are excellent careers.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 04, 2024, 09:38:28 AM

I might choose a $100 K a year college for my kid IFF I were wealthy and wanted my kid to marry another wealthy kid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 04, 2024, 09:46:14 AM

perhaps colleges will price themselves out of the degree printing press business

fewer will take out the loans and the US will be a better place

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 04, 2024, 09:46:51 AM

Yeah networking is probably the most important part of the experience at many of those upper crust private schools.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 04, 2024, 09:49:18 AM

How are today's kids gonna network? 

Get in a room full of other kids and snapchat each other from across the table?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 04, 2024, 09:55:01 AM

Yeah, I'd probably drop half a mil on "Suzie" to meet up with some rich dude, and she'd find a low life scum dude in the local bar or junior college.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 04, 2024, 11:26:04 AM

My youngest son recently gained Journeyman Electrician status. He is making bank. A one year certificate program. GI bill paid for it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 04, 2024, 11:58:02 AM

Trump defends Truth Social from critics as media stock whipsaws (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/04/trump-defends-truth-social-from-critics-as-media-stock-whipsaws.html)

Trump Media has become by far the most expensive stock in the U.S. to sell short, according to data firm S3 Partners.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 04, 2024, 01:52:00 PM

Have we talked about the eclipse at all?  The path of totality runs right through Central Texas.  Austin is at the edge, but we're headed out to my BIL's property outside of Fredericksburg that will be almost exactly on the center line.  The property is still mostly undeveloped so we'll be camping in our RV for the weekend.  Taking lots of food, drinks, and plenty of guns to entertain ourselves until the sun goes away for about 4 minutes on Monday afternoon. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 04, 2024, 02:00:11 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 04, 2024, 01:52:00 PM

Have we talked about the eclipse at all?  The path of totality runs right through Central Texas.  Austin is at the edge, but we're headed out to my BIL's property outside of Fredericksburg that will be almost exactly on the center line.  The property is still mostly undeveloped so we'll be camping in our RV for the weekend.  Taking lots of food, drinks, and plenty of guns to entertain ourselves until the sun goes away for about 4 minutes on Monday afternoon.

It runs almost to Columbus. We are going to someone's house fairly close to ours. I was going to try and go somewhere more central, but I hear traffic can be miserable and a house with bathrooms relatively close sounds good. Not sure the weather will cooperate, currently projected to be mostly cloudy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 04, 2024, 02:19:46 PM

I don't think we'll notice much over here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 04, 2024, 02:20:10 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 04, 2024, 02:00:11 PM

It runs almost to Columbus. We are going to someone's house fairly close to ours. I was going to try and go somewhere more central, but I hear traffic can be miserable and a house with bathrooms relatively close sounds good. Not sure the weather will cooperate, currently projected to be mostly cloudy.

Yeah, could be bad weather, but we're poised to have a good time anyway!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 04, 2024, 02:21:04 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 04, 2024, 02:19:46 PM

I don't think we'll notice much over here.

You won't.

(https://i.imgur.com/N8VX3Hw.jpeg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 04, 2024, 03:07:17 PM

I've seen a couple in my days. It's kinda neat.

I know people who've planned camping trips around them - like 8-10 hour drives. Not me. I'm good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 04, 2024, 03:27:04 PM

I've never seen a total eclipse, the last one in this part of the country was over 100 years ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: bayareabadger on April 04, 2024, 03:29:08 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 04, 2024, 11:26:04 AM

My youngest son recently gained Journeyman Electrician status. He is making bank. A one year certificate program. GI bill paid for it.

And you should see the hotties he met in that program. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 04, 2024, 03:44:14 PM

You should see his wife... Kid done good.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 04, 2024, 03:55:31 PM

I heard some radio hosts saying that people who have seen an eclipse are more likely to initiate travel to see it again, rather than feeling ho-hum like once is enough. So it must be pretty spectacular.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 04, 2024, 04:10:48 PM

For about 3 seconds, I thought about hopping a plane to Austin. ;)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 04, 2024, 04:28:14 PM

I've seen one total eclipse, I even looked at it, briefly, with my own eyes.  It got very dark and a bit eerie.  We have about 85% here, my wife wants to see it, I have the glasses for it, I have a telescope attachment as well, but we're on the road.  

I'm not all that excited about it, I can understand why ancient people would get into a froth over it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 04, 2024, 04:35:32 PM

Neighbors complain about people repeatedly having sex in parking lot of Atlanta adult business – WSB-TV Channel 2 - Atlanta (wsbtv.com) (https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/city-trying-shut-business-down-after-neighbors-say-people-are-having-sex-parking-lot/ISHVZ3L5Y5ESBGHVGVHI7QOLTU/?utm_campaign=trueAnthem_manual&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0HW57VoJ_PBfSfhC-sowfmpcnj80JHEQDtnjqFrt8LnUi_sIdVfewBWr0)

This is about two miles north of me.  There is about half a mile of sketchy stuff slowly being crowded out by new apartment buildings and retail and restaurants.  This place is from the outside the classiest of the strip clubs, one of which advertises "Life Females".  The liquor store I frequent is just north of this mess past the freeway.  Further north it starts to be residential and apartments again, not sketchy, and then in 4 miles or so very upscale.

It's a weird area still, three resturants nearby we dine at every few weeks.  At times around here, you can drive one block and go from upscale to sketchy and then sketchier.

I'm surprised strip clubs have any business these days other than just a place for hookers to hook up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 04, 2024, 04:57:47 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 04, 2024, 04:10:48 PM

For about 3 seconds, I thought about hopping a plane to Austin. ;)

Oh no you DIDN'T.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 04, 2024, 04:59:13 PM

I was gonna squat in some empty house with a pool and stuff.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 04, 2024, 05:29:17 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 04, 2024, 04:59:13 PM

I was gonna squat in some empty house with a pool and stuff.

On second thought, this sounds awesome.  I'll leave my nutjob dog here for you to manage... 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2024, 06:43:54 AM

I occasionally glance at coach comments about how things are going in practice (CFB).  I think they have some kind of standard lexicon they use, it's always basically "some things look good, very happy, a lot of things left to work on though".

The way too early rankings have been out of course, which, if a thing is WAY too early means it's pretty useless.

A thing I look for is a highly ranked team likely to be not good and vice versa, I don't much care who starts at #1.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 05, 2024, 07:12:57 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 04, 2024, 05:29:17 PM

On second thought, this sounds awesome.  I'll leave my nutjob dog here for you to manage...

Deal breaker.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 05, 2024, 07:42:36 AM

F China.

https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/china-is-targeting-u-s-voters-and-taiwan-with-ai-powered-disinformation-34f59e21?st=5jorp6b5vwkxzd3&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 05, 2024, 08:19:07 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/X5usMDz.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2024, 08:21:16 AM

Cincinnati had MAJOR cicada outbreaks, much more than here, maybe this year will be different.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 05, 2024, 08:29:51 AM

Cicadas aren't too bad here.  Grasshoppers are, though, in the Fall.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2024, 09:13:11 AM

we get em both, along with crickets and skeeters

the lightning bugs are OK

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 05, 2024, 09:32:39 AM

Not nearly as many lightning bugs as there used to be, around here.  I'm sure the regular use of pesticides hasn't helped, nor the urbanization of the area.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2024, 09:44:27 AM

they seem to like cornfields

I've also heard they like brush piles

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 05, 2024, 09:50:37 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 05, 2024, 09:44:27 AM

they seem to like cornfields

I've also heard they like brush piles

Makes sense.

There's a pretty large open field at the edge of my neighborhood, butted right up against a forested nature preserve that goes on for miles beyond.  That's a good place to see lightning bugs during the season, and there are definitely more of them when the brush is thick, compared to when it's been recently mowed down.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on April 05, 2024, 10:51:51 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 04, 2024, 11:26:04 AM

My youngest son recently gained Journeyman Electrician status. He is making bank. A one year certificate program. GI bill paid for it.

I use to handle the books for an electrical contractor.  Got one of my son's a job with them starting out as a grunt.  I told him to spend his money acquiring the tools needed to do the job, don't depend on company tools, because you can start doing side jobs and make some extra money. He spent the time, learned the trade, got licenced. Last year he decided to go out on his own. I am working on his taxes, I am amazed at how much money he cleared in his first year. He is doing much better than my kids who are college graduates.

I keep telling people, you don't have to college. Learn at trade, acquire tools and you can make good money

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2024, 11:37:05 AM

Lost in the hubbub surrounding California’s new $20-per-hour minimum wage for fast food workers is how that raise could impact public schools, forcing districts to compete with the likes of McDonald’s and Wendy’s for cafeteria workers amid a state budget crunch.

The minimum wage law that took effect Monday guarantees at least $20-per-hour for workers at fast food restaurant chains with at least 60 locations nationwide. That doesn’t include school food service workers, historically some of the lowest-paid workers in public education.


Yet demand for school meals is higher than ever in California, the first state to guarantee free meals for all students regardless of their family’s income. And demand is projected to fuel an increase of more than 70 million extra meals in California schools this year compared to 2018, according to the state Department of Education.

But these jobs typically have lots of turnover and are harder to fill. The minimum wage boost for fast food workers could make that even more difficult.

“They are all very worried about it. Most are saying they anticipate it will be harder and harder to hire employees,” said Carrie Bogdanovich, president of the California School Nutrition Association.


https://fortune.com/2024/04/04/california-20-hour-fast-food-minimum-wage-schools-compete-cafeteria-workers/ (https://fortune.com/2024/04/04/california-20-hour-fast-food-minimum-wage-schools-compete-cafeteria-workers/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 05, 2024, 11:41:40 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 05, 2024, 09:32:39 AM

Not nearly as many lightning bugs as there used to be, around here.  I'm sure the regular use of pesticides hasn't helped, nor the urbanization of the area.

Ed Zachery,mosquitoes,honey bees,butterflies even yellow jackets,not good.I haven't used any pesicdes or lawn fertilizer for about 5 yrs and won't.Time to tell people back to nature - if Al Bore wants to rail against something let it be that

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2024, 01:42:24 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 03, 2024, 02:40:18 PM

I'm convinced it was an embassy and I'm also convinced that it was also an Iranian military base running Iranian military operations under the protection of Iran's ally, Syria, from a much-closer range to their militaristic interests in Israel.

But it's also not unusual to stage special ops and even military operations from within an embassy, and it rarely leads to attacks.  It's always been understood that's a step too far.  So I agree that a direct attack on that militarized embassy is a tough action to defend, even if you know it's being used against you militarily, which history has proven is the exact thing Iran tends to do.

But what concerns me a lot more than Israel striking a known antagonistic militarized embassy that is almost certainly running operations against them, is what IDF did to the food/aid workers from the World Central Kitchen.  Systematically targeting and destroying an entire convoy of international civilian relief workers, as they're providing food to the starved Palestinians, is absolutely freaking terrible.  And the response has been near complete withdrawal of all food relief/aid in the area.  At this point it's hard not to question the intent of Israel, to think that they're intentionally preventing much-needed food from reaching the masses.  This is the one that makes me really, really angry.  They claim it's a mistake but the operation was a precision, surgical strike.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-68710515

100000%. 

It was an embassy compound, and every embassy compound in the world has military & intelligence personnel on it. Every single one. I have family members that were in the military, that were stationed: at US embassies. Diplomats aren't the only people stationed at embassies, spies & military personnel are there as well, and you can't just go around bombing embassies to try to get to them- not only does it violate international law, but that would be complete and utter chaos if it became common practice. 

I also agree that while that was terrible- what is MUCH worse is what Israel is doing to Gaza and the systemic slaughtering of aid workers and reporters (over 200 in the last 6 months) all in an attempt to choke the life out of Gaza and suppress what is really going on there is a crime against humanity. WCK convoy was targeted for nearly 2km with three different drones and struck three different times. Israel openly admits this- and says "well, we thought maybe one the armed security helping them might've been Hamas affiliated- although we haven't shown a single shred of evidence of this"- and even if that was the case- and it very likely isn't- that does not excuse for a second what they did. It is absolutely unfathomable to me what has taken place there and the fact that it's only possible because of US support chaps my ass to no end. Biden is a complete and utter failure as a President and a complete joke. He talks on and on about how he's concerned for the lives of innocents and that his wife is against the policy of the Israeli's- but he does nothing. Just supports the mass slaughter and starvation of mostly women and children in Gaza en masse and wants to keep giving them free weapons that the US taxpayer is on the hook for ($18 billion more) and keep granting them loan guarantees. 

Israel just annexed like 2,000 more acres in the West Bank to build settlements (which is against international law of course), and if you read this from an Israeli news magazine it's frightening- the AI system that Israel is using to conduct drone strikes- taking the human element almost out of strikes completely, basically a rubber stamp and human approves it so long as the target is male: and of course this system makes tons of errors ("AI" machine learning isn't actually sentient):  https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/

Also: UK state lawyers have told the Prime Minister that Israel is committing war crimes- which means by law UK is not allowed to sell them arms as they will be seen as complicit- and we only know about this because of leaked audio recordings. The UK gov't hasn't gone public with this: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/30/uk-government-lawyers-say-israel-is-breaking-international-law-claims-top-tory-in-leaked-recording

US has similar laws. Why is nothing being done and no pressure being put on them? Kinda weird. Oh wait, no it's not, AIPAC has enormous influence over the political landscape of this country. How is this even legal that what is essentially a foreign intelligence/lobbying operation allowed to have any say in the politics of this country? AIPAC should be banned, as should every single foreign lobby imo. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2024, 01:43:47 PM

I have seen it called an embassy (or consulate, which makes little sense), but I've yet to see any evidence anywhere it WAS part of the embassy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2024, 01:46:26 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2024, 01:43:47 PM

I have seen it called an embassy (or consulate, which makes little sense), but I've yet to see any evidence anywhere it WAS part of the embassy.

stop. just. stop. jfc man. for the love of god.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2024, 01:48:44 PM

Well, no one here has provided any evidence at all.  They just claim it was, over and over and over.  That isn't very convincing to me.

And I've looked on line for the information and find nothing at all except similar claims.  The google maps I examined is not very clear, there is no wall around that building that includes the actual embassy building which one might expect.

It might well just be a house next door.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2024, 01:50:32 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 03, 2024, 07:09:05 PM

It's not stupid, it's simply fast-forwarding to the end of the movie. 
Either the Jews will have a permanent state in the middle east or they won't.

Don't pretend decades of proxy-wars is any better.  It's just slower.

yeah, cause a nuclear war involving weapons significantly more powerful than the ones dropped on Japan is definitely the answer. 


:a102:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2024, 01:51:13 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2024, 01:48:44 PM

Well, no one here has provided any evidence at all.  They just claim it was, over and over and over.  That isn't very convincing to me.

And I've looked on line for the information and find nothing at all except similar claims.  The google maps I examined is not very clear, there is no wall around that building that includes the actual embassy building which one might expect.

It might well just be a house next door.

K. Tell that to the NYT and US gov't, who both say it's an embassy compound. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 05, 2024, 01:54:45 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2024, 01:43:47 PM

I have seen it called an embassy (or consulate, which makes little sense), but I've yet to see any evidence anywhere it WAS part of the embassy.

That's fair, too.  But it was at the very least embassy-adjacent.

It's possible that diplomatic missions were conducted there.  But it's also about 99% certain that military operations were being conducted from that facility, given the fact that a senior Iranian military officer and several other officers from Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps were the ones who were both targeted, and confirmed, among the dead.

It's hard for me to gin up much sympathy for the deaths of Iranian military officers running operations against Israel in the middle of a proxy war they're voluntarily participating in, nor anger against Israel for performing a military strike against an obvious military target.

The strikes against the WCK and other aid workers, on the other hand, are pretty much unfathomable to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2024, 01:55:17 PM

Yeah, sure, I don't consider seeing it written in the NYT as "evidence", it's at best an indication.  I have not see where the US government called it an embassy, maybe they have.

UN Security Council fails to condemn strike on Iran in Syria | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/world/un-security-council-fails-condemn-strike-iran-syria-2024-04-03/)

The U.S. says it has not confirmed the status of the building (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-us-warns-iran-not-target-it-over-syria-strike-2024-04-02/) struck in Damascus, but that it would be concerned if it was a diplomatic facility.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2024, 02:00:08 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 05, 2024, 01:54:45 PM

That's fair, too.  But it was at the very least embassy-adjacent.

It's possible that diplomatic missions were conducted there.  But it's also about 99% certain that military operations were being conducted from that facility, given the fact that a senior Iranian military officer and several other officers from Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps were the ones who were both targeted, and confirmed, among the dead.

It's hard for me to gin up much sympathy for the deaths of Iranian military officers running operations against Israel in the middle of a proxy war they're voluntarily participating in, nor anger against Israel for performing a military strike against an obvious military target.

The strikes against the WCK and other aid workers, on the other hand, are pretty much unfathomable to me.

and if you think that's bad...take a look at what they did to al-shifa the largest hospital in Gaza and really the last functioning artery of what was left of a healthcare system on life support. absolutely horrific doesn't even begin to describe it.

look at the before and after pictures of Gaza, they've leveled everything in sight into a parking lot, and have turned it into an uninhabitable wasteland. these were already some of the poorest, most food insecure, most oppressed people in the world to begin with....now it's just at a level that is unbelievable really.

And of course all the deliberate attacks on aid workers (over 200 killed in the last 6 months) has caused many of these aid organizations to stop their operations in Gaza and stop providing crucial life saving medical care and food to a desperate population that is mostly women and children.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2024, 02:00:14 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 05, 2024, 01:51:13 PM

K. Tell that to the NYT and US gov't, who both say it's an embassy compound.

The U.S. says it has not confirmed the status of the building (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-us-warns-iran-not-target-it-over-syria-strike-2024-04-02/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2024, 02:04:15 PM

My Marine friends talked about doing one of their summers in Israel.  They'd go out on practice exercises, and the Israelis would say "OK, this is how we do THIS.".  The Marines would say "Hold up, we're not allowed to do that in this situation, our ROEs are different."

They were impressed at how the IDF ROEs were quite a bit more "liberal" in terms of how to clear a building etc. than ours would be.  In other words, they aren't that concerned with either civilian casualties OR what the world thinks about them.

It's a small country with enemies on several sides and they are a bit paranoid and don't mess around.  And I don't think there is a whole lot the US can do about it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2024, 02:08:47 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2024, 01:55:17 PM

Yeah, sure, I don't consider seeing it written in the NYT as "evidence", it's at best an indication.  I have not see where the US government called it an embassy, maybe they have.

UN Security Council fails to condemn strike on Iran in Syria | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/world/un-security-council-fails-condemn-strike-iran-syria-2024-04-03/)

The U.S. says it has not confirmed the status of the building (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-us-warns-iran-not-target-it-over-syria-strike-2024-04-02/) struck in Damascus, but that it would be concerned if it was a diplomatic facility.

yeah, no. the UN security council failed to pass any kind of resolution on the strike because: the US has permanent veto power. As permanent members of the security council- they block and strike down every single UN resolution that even mildly chides Israel. Not only that- the airstrike was committed with US built planes and US made bombs that they gave to Israel for free. Gee, how nice, Daddy America. Don't make a modern rich nation buy weapons from you- give them to them for free and charge the US taxpayer for it! US has vetoed every single UN resolution calling for a cease fire since this war began. A pretty weak one finally just passed because the US abstained from voting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 05, 2024, 02:12:18 PM

Iran Tells US to Step Aside as It Readies Response to Israel (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/iran-tells-us-to-step-aside-as-it-readies-response-to-israel/ar-BB1l8pd7)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2024, 02:12:36 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2024, 02:04:15 PM

My Marine friends talked about doing one of their summers in Israel.  They'd go out on practice exercises, and the Israelis would say "OK, this is how we do THIS.".  The Marines would say "Hold up, we're not allowed to do that in this situation, our ROEs are different."

They were impressed at how the IDF ROEs were quite a bit more "liberal" in terms of how to clear a building etc. than ours would be.  In other words, they aren't that concerned with either civilian casualties OR what the world thinks about them.

It's a small country with enemies on several sides and they are a bit paranoid and don't mess around.  And I don't think there is a whole lot the US can do about it.

they don't have rules of engagement, there rules are killing everything and anything in sight.

the underlined is zero excuse for the mass slaughtering and forced starvation of innocent women and children and an illegal occupation that has been going for decades.

and you're dead wrong, there's a WHOLE LOT the US can do about it. see: the HW administration when he pulled their loan guarantees which WORKED in pausing illegal settlement expansion and threatened them further with a pause on arm sales- really not even arms sales- more like free arms giveaways that the US taxpayer is on the hook for.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2024, 02:15:07 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 05, 2024, 02:12:18 PM

Iran Tells US to Step Aside as It Readies Response to Israel (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/iran-tells-us-to-step-aside-as-it-readies-response-to-israel/ar-BB1l8pd7)

US insane support to the hilt for Israel harms US national security. Period. 

Not only is it THEFT from the US taxpayer, but it HURTS, not helps OUR national security.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2024, 02:20:45 PM

I'm not sure Iran has the power to attack Israel directly with much effect, so I expect some sort of asymmetric attack, again, probably using proxies.

Would Iran launch missiles from Iranian territory to Israel?  I doubt it, maybe.  Their precision is probably not that exact, and they might get intercepted.

Will they try and attack some Israeli embassy somewhere else?  Maybe, those will be hard targets.

And I don't believe the US has much influence over Israeli ROEs, which is what I was talking about.  Maybe we can plead and use "harsh language", and the Israelis would say "Yeah, sure thing." and carry on.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2024, 02:36:44 PM

we literally have the dumbest people in the room running this god damn country....it's so sad...that's ANTNY Blinkin the US secretary of state saying just two days ago to the world, Ukraine will be in NATO....JFC man.

https://twitter.com/ComicDaveSmith/status/1775990999279415558

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2024, 02:46:52 PM

This is stated policy and has been for a while.

NATO - Topic: Relations with Ukraine (https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_37750.htm)

• In response to Ukraine’s aspirations for NATO membership, Allies agreed at the 2008 Bucharest Summit that Ukraine will become a member of NATO. They also agreed that Ukraine’s next step on its way to membership was the Membership Action Plan (MAP), NATO’s programme of political, economic, defence, resource, security and legal reforms for aspirant countries. In 2009, the Annual National Programme was introduced as Ukraine’s key instrument to advance its Euro-Atlantic integration and related reforms.
• From 2010 to 2014, Ukraine pursued a non-alignment policy, which it terminated in response to Russia’s aggression. In June 2017, the Ukrainian Parliament adopted legislation reinstating membership in NATO as a strategic foreign and security policy objective. In 2019, a corresponding amendment to Ukraine's Constitution entered into force.
• In September 2020, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy approved Ukraine's new National Security Strategy, which provides for the development of the distinctive partnership with NATO with the aim of membership in NATO. In September 2022, following Russia’s illegal attempted annexations of Ukrainian territory, Ukraine reiterated its request for NATO membership.
• At the 2023 Vilnius Summit, Allies reaffirmed their commitment that Ukraine will become a member of NATO. Recognising Ukraine’s increased interoperability and substantial progress with reforms, they decided that Ukraine’s path to full Euro-Atlantic integration has moved beyond the need for the Membership Action Plan. Allies will continue to support and review Ukraine’s progress on interoperability as well as additional democratic and security sector reforms that are required on its path towards future membership. NATO Foreign Ministers will regularly assess progress through the adapted Annual National Programme. NATO will be in a position to extend an invitation to Ukraine to join the Alliance when Allies agree and conditions are met.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2024, 02:53:41 PM

Bringing Ukraine Into NATO Without World War III - CEPA (https://cepa.org/article/bringing-ukraine-into-nato-without-world-war-iii/)

I don't really agree with this position.  Well, I disagree entirely.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 05, 2024, 04:29:08 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 05, 2024, 02:36:44 PM

we literally have the dumbest people in the room running this god damn country....it's so sad...that's ANTNY Blinkin the US secretary of state saying just two days ago to the world, Ukraine will be in NATO....JFC man.

Dumb is a nice way to put it.

I cringed when he said that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 05, 2024, 04:54:46 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/Zc9eOp5.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2024, 04:55:59 PM

He stated long standing NATO policy.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 05, 2024, 04:58:50 PM

And he's dumb.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2024, 05:00:23 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2024, 02:46:52 PM

This is stated policy and has been for a while.

NATO - Topic: Relations with Ukraine (https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_37750.htm)

• In response to Ukraine’s aspirations for NATO membership, Allies agreed at the 2008 Bucharest Summit that Ukraine will become a member of NATO. They also agreed that Ukraine’s next step on its way to membership was the Membership Action Plan (MAP), NATO’s programme of political, economic, defence, resource, security and legal reforms for aspirant countries. In 2009, the Annual National Programme was introduced as Ukraine’s key instrument to advance its Euro-Atlantic integration and related reforms.
• From 2010 to 2014, Ukraine pursued a non-alignment policy, which it terminated in response to Russia’s aggression. In June 2017, the Ukrainian Parliament adopted legislation reinstating membership in NATO as a strategic foreign and security policy objective. In 2019, a corresponding amendment to Ukraine's Constitution entered into force.
• In September 2020, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy approved Ukraine's new National Security Strategy, which provides for the development of the distinctive partnership with NATO with the aim of membership in NATO. In September 2022, following Russia’s illegal attempted annexations of Ukrainian territory, Ukraine reiterated its request for NATO membership.
• At the 2023 Vilnius Summit, Allies reaffirmed their commitment that Ukraine will become a member of NATO. Recognising Ukraine’s increased interoperability and substantial progress with reforms, they decided that Ukraine’s path to full Euro-Atlantic integration has moved beyond the need for the Membership Action Plan. Allies will continue to support and review Ukraine’s progress on interoperability as well as additional democratic and security sector reforms that are required on its path towards future membership. NATO Foreign Ministers will regularly assess progress through the adapted Annual National Programme. NATO will be in a position to extend an invitation to Ukraine to join the Alliance when Allies agree and conditions are met.

yeah, no. the "fast track to NATO" bs ANTNY Blinken went on about publicly the other day was not stated policy nor has it "been for awhile". The stated policy since Bush II has been "Ukraine will be in NATO someday, but hey, that day is long out and who knows when". 

This entire sh*ts show goes back to the Bush II administration when that retard proposed NATO membership to Ukraine and Georgia. This set off a five alarm fire in Russian leadership- not just with Putin- with every damn body in Russian leadership. We know this because of the many insiders who worked for the Bush II administration have talked about it like Fiona Hill- who strongly advised him against it and has said the Germans and French were the ones who put the kibosh on fast-track membership- and basically blocked both from actually joining- and we know this because of leaked US gov't cables published by the most important publisher of our or any era- Julian Assange- over at WikiLeaks. One of which was a cable titled nyet means nyet- written by William Burns- then US ambassador to Russia under Bush II- now director of the CIA under Biden. You can read the memo here (https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html#efmBTnBfi), and he warns the Bush II administration about what would could happen if this policy was pursued- and everything he said in the memo 16 f*cking years ago happened almost word for word- yet no one wanted to listen to him. 

The Obama administration sparked a fuse with it's backing of an illegal coup d'etat of a democratically elected government, Trump administration ratcheted things up to 11 and started flooding Ukraine with lethal arms- something the Obama administration refused to do in order not to provoke Russia, and the dumpster fire Biden administration has done nothing but thrown gasoline on the dumpster fire. ANTY Blinkin and the rest of the Biden admin are bunch of monkies with a machine gun. Worse actually, they control nuclear weapons arsenals and the most powerful military on earth.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 05, 2024, 05:03:39 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2024, 02:53:41 PM

Bringing Ukraine Into NATO Without World War III - CEPA (https://cepa.org/article/bringing-ukraine-into-nato-without-world-war-iii/)

I don't really agree with this position.  Well, I disagree entirely.

it's a beyond stupid position. Russia will ramp up the levels of depravity and try to destroy Ukraine before it willingly let's it join NATO, and there's zero chance a larger war does not break out if Ukraine was shoved into NATO asap somehow.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2024, 06:29:54 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2024, 02:04:15 PM

My Marine friends talked about doing one of their summers in Israel.  They'd go out on practice exercises, and the Israelis would say "OK, this is how we do THIS.".  The Marines would say "Hold up, we're not allowed to do that in this situation, our ROEs are different."

They were impressed at how the IDF ROEs were quite a bit more "liberal" in terms of how to clear a building etc. than ours would be.  In other words, they aren't that concerned with either civilian casualties OR what the world thinks about them.

It's a small country with enemies on several sides and they are a bit paranoid and don't mess around.  And I don't think there is a whole lot the US can do about it.

Doesn't this make perfect sense, though?  

Hamas finally poked the bear one too many times.  And yes, there's extra, bad fallout from the response, but I understand Israel's response.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2024, 06:34:23 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 05, 2024, 01:50:32 PM

yeah, cause a nuclear war involving weapons significantly more powerful than the ones dropped on Japan is definitely the answer.


:a102:

Why does everyone act like a nuke is a slippery slope.  They've only been used once, and that was going on 80 years ago.
Excuse me for suggesting the band-aid be ripped off instead of gradually over decades.  My bad.
Let's pretend 3 or 4 generations being raised in fear and hate and danger and murder and death is preferable to a quick, single outcome (horrific, obviously).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2024, 06:50:49 PM

Use of nuclear weapons would be bad. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2024, 08:15:54 PM

Who said otherwise? 
It's not like Israel has any good options.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2024, 08:36:41 PM

They have many options short of nuclear war.   Who would they even attack?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2024, 08:42:19 PM

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/03/world/natos-next-challenge-underfunding-defense-intl-cmd/index.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2024, 09:28:19 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2024, 06:29:54 PM

Doesn't this make perfect sense, though? 

Hamas finally poked the bear one too many times.  And yes, there's extra, bad fallout from the response, but I understand Israel's response. 

I understand Israel's response
targeting and killing women, children and foreign aid workers is absolutely horrible and should not be allowed without punishment from the US and the rest of the world

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 05, 2024, 09:43:31 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2024, 06:34:23 PM

Why does everyone act like a nuke is a slippery slope.  They've only been used once, and that was going on 80 years ago.
Excuse me for suggesting the band-aid be ripped off instead of gradually over decades.  My bad.
Let's pretend 3 or 4 generations being raised in fear and hate and danger and murder and death is preferable to a quick, single outcome (horrific, obviously).

I think what drives a lot of the slippery slope view is the concern that Putin is crazy and has a huge ego

If you keep pushing him theres a valid concern he will do an irrational act

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2024, 11:49:39 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2024, 08:36:41 PM

They have many options short of nuclear war.  Who would they even attack?

Iran, the country behind all of the proxy attacks made on them.  
Just drop it on Bandar Abbas, their big port hub.  And if they start to fight back, drop another one on Tehran.  

You mess with Israel, this is what happens.  You send your toadies to mess with Israel, this is what happens.  
OR
Israel can go on playing defense, getting rocket shelled every other month for the rest of time.  I guess that's acceptable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 06, 2024, 07:22:18 AM

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/fast-food-workers-stunned-as-california-minimum-wage-increase-already-results-in-restaurant-closure/ss-BB1l87OR?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=5165f3292e6f483188d024ee933e2016&ei=21#image=1

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2024, 07:22:28 AM

I don't think a first use of nuclear weapons against Iran would do anything for Israel but make things much much worse, and they appear to think the same way, which is notable.  Iran is not their only problem of course.  Making new problems seems ill advised to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2024, 07:43:03 AM

Israel has problems on all sides and from far away. 

The UK really screwed the pooch.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2024, 07:47:34 AM

Their borders with Jordan and Egypt are probably in the "OK" range, if they nuked Iran (!!!) that could change.  Iran obviously encourages others to do their dirty work, which is a bit odd because Iranians and Arabs historically don't get along, at all, in fact, they despise each other.

I don't see some magical solution to any of this mess, certainly not one involving nuclear weapons (nor does anyone else).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2024, 08:01:18 AM

We need to pull out of that mess, and this mess.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-ukraine-oil-refineries-strikes-biden-administration-vladimir-putin-b0ef679c?st=xlvnxndyueuw5ex&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2024, 08:03:58 AM

I'm in favor of supporting Ukraine.  It's really a pretty small "donation" in relative terms and keeps them afloat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2024, 08:13:35 AM

Clearly, I'm not in favor of supporting Ukraine, which is not and has never truly been a US Ally. 

I fear a broader escalation.

The EU (not NATO) can support Ukraine and risk escalation.

********************************

Why did W force Ukraine to return all of its Nukes to Russia? I don't remember that story.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2024, 08:23:05 AM

There was a "deal" made with Russia, the nukes would go back and in return Russia agreed to leave Ukraine alone.  It looked like a good deal at the time.

Russia was starting to look more akin to a possible ally, and Bill Clinton was President.

The Trilateral Process: The United States, Ukraine, Russia and Nuclear Weapons | Brookings (https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-trilateral-process-the-united-states-ukraine-russia-and-nuclear-weapons/)

Later in 1993, the Ukrainian and Russian governments signed a series of bilateral agreements giving up Ukrainian claims to the nuclear weapons and the Black Sea Fleet, in return for $2.5 billion of gas and oil debt cancellation and future supplies of fuel for its nuclear power reactors.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2024, 08:30:09 AM

For some reason I thought it was W, since he did so much other damage around the world.

So, it was Clinton. Interesting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 06, 2024, 09:57:33 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2024, 08:30:09 AM

For some reason I thought it was W, since he did so much other damage around the world.

So, it was Clinton. Interesting.

Either way, it makes sense. The fewer countries with nukes, the fewer opportunities exist that one goes rogue and uses them. It made a small addition to Russia's nuclear stockpile, but it reduced Ukraine from "some" to "none". 

Granted, it may have led to this, but if Ukraine currently has weapons and Russia still invaded, how much more likely would it be that a desperate Ukraine uses them if they're in danger of being completely overrun? 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2024, 10:00:58 AM

Sure, no doubt, but it's reality.  I don't see how nuclear has much of a future in the US (aside from very long term, maybe).

MAYBE SMRs start getting built in numbers, but I doubt that happens.

This is one reason there is NO PLAN.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2024, 02:21:00 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 06, 2024, 07:22:28 AM

I don't think a first use of nuclear weapons against Iran would do anything for Israel but make things much much worse, and they appear to think the same way, which is notable.  Iran is not their only problem of course.  Making new problems seems ill advised to me.

How is attacking a country who's leaders have openly acknowledged wanting your country erased from existence cause 'more' problems? 
The Arabs don't care if you nuke Iran.  They'd understand it and understand they're not at risk.  Most would probably be happy about it.
Iran is a wart on the ass of the world.  Everything would be better if their threat-level matched their ideology:  back in the bronze age.

Israel has the world's biggest bully standing right beside it in support.  No, nuclear isn't a "good" idea, but it's better than further decades of inevitable skirmishes.  Enough with the generational fighting. 
We destroyed Germany, they're now an ally.  We destroyed Japan, they're now an ally.  Iran can get back to being a humdrum entity someday, but only if we (Israel, with our backing) press the reset button for them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2024, 03:51:48 PM

Well, whatever you think (???) is fine with me, clearly Israel is not going to launch a first nuclear strike on Iran, and for reasons I outlined, I view it as a ridiculous notion.

Fortunately, Israel understands that as well.

But I suppose some folks like to latch on to apparently simplistic convenient notions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2024, 04:11:55 PM

Excuse me for having a conversation.
You're right, they won't do it.  
They'll just continue to have to fight for their existence, constantly, for the next 80 years.  
That's way better.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2024, 04:14:35 PM

Your idea, in my opinion, is beyond ridiculous.  If you don't like my opinion, I really do not care.  Converse all you want.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 06, 2024, 05:07:11 PM

Great post.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 07, 2024, 07:44:56 AM

Iran has stated it will respond to the attack on its embassy. I would expect that to happen, no doubt.

The questions are what will they do, where, and when?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2024, 07:49:30 AM

It might well be something more symbolic than substantive so they can appease their followers while not inciting a broader war.  They likely want to keep things contained so they can remain "distant" and continue to use proxies.

Israel has an embassy in Jordan which might be an example of a target of some sort, it's already experiencing protests.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 07, 2024, 07:57:56 AM

So long as the US doesn't get involved, I'm good. Let the kids fight. 

Maybe the UK can intervene.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2024, 08:21:35 PM

Let's police the world, but not get involved.......

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on April 08, 2024, 06:57:36 AM

Just deserts

https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/iranian-general-killed-in-damascus-strike-reportedly-planned-october-7-attacks-urhpihbx (https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/iranian-general-killed-in-damascus-strike-reportedly-planned-october-7-attacks-urhpihbx)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 08, 2024, 07:43:47 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2024, 08:21:35 PM

Let's police the world, but not get involved.......

I'd rather we police our borders.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 08, 2024, 08:11:36 AM

This would have been a major problem.

Huge Shipping Container Loses All Power Near NYC Bridge Not Long After Baltimore Key Bridge Collapse (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/huge-shipping-container-loses-all-power-near-nyc-bridge-not-long-after-baltimore-key-bridge-collapse/ar-BB1leAGY?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=2047487b49ba445fac09b60a9d9c60e7&ei=13)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2024, 08:26:29 AM

nice headline

a shipping container?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 08, 2024, 08:28:15 AM

Nobody ever said writers are smart.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2024, 08:43:46 AM

I rarely click on headlines that are ridiculous

I figure the actual story isn't much better

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 08, 2024, 08:47:44 AM

The rest of the story was OK.

I wonder how often these ships lose power and we never hear about it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 08, 2024, 09:45:11 AM

There are a lot of ships out there. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 08, 2024, 09:51:06 AM

Buying votes with our money. Great.

Biden to announce new plans to provide student debt relief for millions (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-to-announce-new-plans-to-provide-student-debt-relief-for-millions/ar-BB1lgC9H)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2024, 11:10:48 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 08, 2024, 09:45:11 AM

There are a lot of ships out there.

perhaps they should be required to pass safety requirements to use our ports?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 08, 2024, 12:45:03 PM

Supposedly eastern Lorain County and western Cuyahoga County in Ohio will be right in the center of the 100 mile path of totality as Eclipse passes over between 3:12 pm - 3:15 pm. Cloud cover earlier, sun was out- now kind of spotty. For those who flocked here hope they get to see it,Birds were bellowing earlier now kind of silent. Maybe just happy to see the sun peek out like the rest of us

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 08, 2024, 12:56:06 PM

According to Cindy they are covering it in Texas now over Austin - don't move or watch there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 08, 2024, 01:40:10 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2024, 06:29:54 PM

Doesn't this make perfect sense, though? 

Hamas finally poked the bear one too many times.  And yes, there's extra, bad fallout from the response, but I understand Israel's response.

no, it does not make perfect sense, and it's a violation of international law as well as occupying armies are bound by international law to well, NOT illegally occupy- and all armies are bound to take measures to avoid killing women and children, not kill everything that moves and slaughter them en masse like Israel does. Big Bad evil Hitler Putin's war has killed around 500 children in Ukraine in over 2 years. Israel's war has killed TENS OF THOUSANDS OF THEM in.... 6 months.

you can also flip that really dumb sh*t you just said that I underlined on it's head and say, Israel poked the bear one too many times during it's illegal 57 year occupation of the territories of the land of the Palestinian people and I understand the Palestinian response. Both just wildly stupid things to say. Hamas terrorist attacks are not acceptable. Obviously. And neither is the response from Israel, which has been far more brutal, horrific, and taken far more innocent lives than anything Hamas could ever dream of pulling off.

people act like all this sh*t just started October 7th with Hamas. newsflash: it's been going on since the early 1900s, when the first wave of European jews immigrated to Palestine- which ended in 1903. Prior to that first wave of European jews immigrating which began in 1880- just 144 years ago- NOT THAT LONG AGO- there were only 25,000 Jews in the entire territory of what is now Israel and Palestine. By the start of WWI there was a 220% increase in population from 1880- but there were still only 80,000 Jews in what is now Israel and Palestine. It continued on to 1916 when the British reneged on a deal with the Arabs to support statehood for the Arabs who lived in what is now Israel-Palestine, if they revolted against Ottoman rule. Well they revolted and toppled their Ottoman overlords, only for the British to stab them in the back and secretly cut a pact with the French to divide the former Ottoman lands and control all the puppet states that followed. The British had no right to do this. To make matters worse- a year later in 1917 the British promised support for taking land from Palestinians for a future Jewish state in Palestine with the Balfour declaration- a promise they had no legal authority to make. An occupying country (UK) has no right to promise land it occupies to a 3rd party for a future statehood. This is an absurdity. The Balfour declaration was nothing more than out-right anti-semitism from a European power to "get them out of our country" and nothing more- the British didn't give two sh*ts about a Jewish state- they just wanted Jews out of their country. The biggest anti-semites in history by FAR has been the European Christian nations.

UK opened up the immigration flood waves and then it continued onto the Nakba in 1948- when what was mainly a band of highly armed militant immigrant colonizer settler Jews from Europe and their children- conquered land that DID NOT belong to them, drove out and ethnic cleansed nearly three quarters of a million Palestinians who had been living on that land for millennia- and establishing a state based off a partition plan from the UN- a plan which gave about 60% of the land to less than 1/3rd of the population and what again was mostly immigrant colonizing settler Europeans- when the Arabs who had been living there for thousands of years- who outnumbered the immigrant colonizer settler Europeans over 2 to 1- received around 40% of the land. This was unacceptable to the majority Arab population- and of course it would lead to: war. War broke out, Israel won- and not only did they claim the land the UN partition was proposing for Israel- they also took 60% of the land the UN was proposing for Palestine. The UN had no mandate or power or right to partition Palestinian lands and create states from whole cloth and thin air.

If the UN really wanted to give European jews a state- they probably should've just given them Germany- a state that quite frankly shouldn't even have the right to exist anymore in my opinion after what the Nazis did. And if that was not enough, it continued on to the the Naksa in 1967 when Israel drove out and ethnic cleansed over 350,000 more Palestinians from their lands and homes- and the Israeli government has been illegally occupying the West Bank and Gaza ever since- for 57 straight years. Fun fact: any Jew born anywhere in the world- even part jewish as long as one grandparent or parent is Jewish- have the "right of return" to Israel, yet the million plus Palestinians who were driven from their lands and homes- and in many cases can prove documents of ownership from the times of the Ottoman control- in the Nakba in 1948 and the Naksa in 1967 and the millions of their descendants- do not have the right to return to their homeland. Kind fcking WILD, ain't it? And it continues on even further- when after the fall of the Soviet Union when roughly 1,000,000 Central and Eastern European colonizing settlers immigrated into Israel with the help of the West- and Israel annexed yet even more land from the West Bank to build settlements and housing.

And it continues on to this day. Israel just announced not too long ago they are annexing another 2,000 acres in the West Bank to build settlements. The Palestinian people have been oppressed, slaughtered, driven from their lands, and have lived in what are essentially concentration camps for the last 57 years. I am not condoning any type of terrorist attacks on civilians, but I sure as hell don't know how I would respond if the shoe was on the other foot. I'm not sure you can say so either.

We are suppose to have been past European colonialism and genocide of an indigenous population. The fact that all this has happened in a little over the last 100 plus years is downright shocking to me. And spare me the bullsh*t about the Bible and how this was their land 3,000 years ago. Cause I really don't give a flying f**k about some cockamamy fairytales from some bullsh*t like the Bible that only morons believe actually happened. The historical accuracy of the Bible is like oh, only 0%. The Jews were never slaves in Egypt that built the pyramids. The Romans never executed Jesus. Kind of hard to execute someone who never existed. There was no max exodus from Judea after the Romans crushed their final rebellion. The Romans just destroyed Judea, slaughtered around 600,000 people, took some as slaves, deported any potential trouble makers from the royal family/nobility to Rome, and the Jews that remained there either eventually converted or maintained their religion. What is deeply ironic about this entire ordeal today is that many people calling themselves Palestinian Arabs are the descendants of the Jews and Samaritans who remained in Palestine and converted after the Islamic conquests.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 08, 2024, 01:43:30 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 06, 2024, 08:03:58 AM

I'm in favor of supporting Ukraine.  It's really a pretty small "donation" in relative terms and keeps them afloat.

I am not in favor of supporting this war. All that will happen if it continues on is that Russia will continue to slowly bleed and Ukraine will continue to be devastated and destroyed, lose more territory and become a shell of it's former self, an ineffective rump state. This benefits no one but arms manufacturers, US multi-national banks like JP Morgan Chase & PE like BlackRock,  and US military strategic interests via weakening a potential rival through proxy.

All the meanwhile it is the millions of innocent civilians in Ukraine that have paid the price and will continue to have paid the price. By the time it's all said and done, it'll probably be over $200 billion. Who knows, could be even more. That is NOT a small donation relative to any terms. The US taxpayer should NOT be on the hook for funding OTHER COUNTRIES GOVERNMENTS AND OTHER COUNTRIES WARS. Much of that money the US has given Ukraine has gone to propping up their government and paying salaries and pensions- and much of it has also, newsflash: been stolen by corrupt government officials and bureaucrats in Kiev. Why does the US gov't feel it is entitled to throw US taxpayers money down the toilet?

And the US is not exactly supporting Ukraine. Anyone with half a brain saw this situation coming, our leaders knew NATO expansion towards Ukraine was a hard redline for the entire Russian leadership and establishment- not just "crazy Hitler Putin!" they knew this outcome would inevitably happen. They pushed forward anyway. This tells me the US leadership at the highest levels were playing at a strategy to weaken a potential rival by using Ukraine as cannon fodder in a proxy war. It was the plan all along. And in case you haven't noticed, we have fantastically incompetent and immoral people in DC running this country and f'ing shit up all across the globe.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 08, 2024, 01:44:51 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2024, 08:13:35 AM

Clearly, I'm not in favor of supporting Ukraine, which is not and has never truly been a US Ally.

I fear a broader escalation.

The EU (not NATO) can support Ukraine and risk escalation.

********************************

Why did W force Ukraine to return all of its Nukes to Russia? I don't remember that story.

it was Clinton, and it was a good thing imo. the less countries that have nukes, the less chances there are of one going off.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 08, 2024, 01:46:23 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 05, 2024, 09:43:31 PM

I think what drives a lot of the slippery slope view is the concern that Putin is crazy and has a huge ego

If you keep pushing him theres a valid concern he will do an irrational act

Putin has been in power for 25 years. I don't see a ton of evidence of him being crazy. I see a ton of evidence of him being a ruthless calculating murderous bastard, but not some crazy mad man. This war was lunacy on his part, as it won't end well for him even if Ukraine is blocked forever from NATO, as Russia has been severely diminished on the world stage and will continue to remain so even after the end of the war imo.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 08, 2024, 01:49:06 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2024, 07:43:03 AM

Israel has problems on all sides and from far away.

The UK really screwed the pooch.

Israel in large part creates it's own problems with the way it behaves and it's ongoing and continued illegal occupation, apartheid, mass murder and ethnic cleansing of Palestine. 

yes the UK most certainly did, first they reneged on a deal to support an independent unified Arab kingdom in 1916, and then in 1917 the Balfour declaration was a disgrace. What right did the UK have to state they would support a Jewish state on land that was not there's? Oh yeah, none. 

Israel in reality should never have existed. It is a settler colonial state founded by European immigrant settler colonizers and their descendants. It exists though, so nothing you can do about that now. The only moral solution imo is for Israel to end it's apartheid, tear down all the prison walls and fencing of the open air concentration camp of Gaza- destroy all their settlements in the West Bank and let Gaza and the West Bank unify and create a state and have a two state solution. It's either that- or just continue on down the path they are on of ethnic cleansing and taking all the territory- which will just lead to it's destruction.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 08, 2024, 01:55:16 PM

It's weird to think about, but most of the world's countries occupy land that wasn't originally theirs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 08, 2024, 01:59:31 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 06, 2024, 08:01:18 AM

We need to pull out of that mess, and this mess.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-ukraine-oil-refineries-strikes-biden-administration-vladimir-putin-b0ef679c?st=xlvnxndyueuw5ex&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

US shouldn't just pull out support right now. Ukraine would collapse overnight and then they'd really be screwed. US leaders should be on the phone with Putin and his leadership trying to get to an acceptable peace plan, put together a treaty to create a neutral Ukraine and end the war. Unfortunately, US leaders are morons and won't even get on the phone with Russian leadership and try to negotiate and try to make a peace. 

You make peace with your enemies, not your friends. How is peace to be made when US leadership flat out refuses to even talk?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 08, 2024, 02:00:57 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 08, 2024, 01:55:16 PM

It's weird to think about, but most of the world's countries occupy land that wasn't originally theirs.

yes, I know. but you'd think human beings would be beyond that heinous crap by now. we're still savages.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 08, 2024, 02:02:10 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2024, 06:34:23 PM

Why does everyone act like a nuke is a slippery slope.  They've only been used once, and that was going on 80 years ago.
Excuse me for suggesting the band-aid be ripped off instead of gradually over decades.  My bad.
Let's pretend 3 or 4 generations being raised in fear and hate and danger and murder and death is preferable to a quick, single outcome (horrific, obviously).

this is just beyond stupid. don't even know where to begin. but yeah, sure let's pretend that Israel using a nuke on Iran doesn't have the high potential to create a scenario where a larger massive wear breaks out. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 08, 2024, 02:02:48 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 05, 2024, 08:15:54 PM

Who said otherwise? 
It's not like Israel has any good options.

Israel has one option and that's it. They need to destroy all their settlements in the West Bank and get out, and they need to stop their illegal occupation of Palestinian lands and stop the genocide they are committing in Gaza. That's it. Anything less than that will surely lead to nothing but bad for them in the long run. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 08, 2024, 02:03:11 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 05, 2024, 06:50:49 PM

Use of nuclear weapons would be bad.

understatement of the century. lol. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 08, 2024, 02:04:34 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 06, 2024, 07:47:34 AM

Their borders with Jordan and Egypt are probably in the "OK" range, if they nuked Iran (!!!) that could change.  Iran obviously encourages others to do their dirty work, which is a bit odd because Iranians and Arabs historically don't get along, at all, in fact, they despise each other.

I don't see some magical solution to any of this mess, certainly not one involving nuclear weapons (nor does anyone else).

The Iranians and the Arabs don't get along. The Saudis want the Americans to eliminate that regime just as badly as Israel wants. 

People acting like Arabs are against Israel because of some religious beef is just flat wrong. Jews were treated far better and lived much safer, better lives under Islam rule than they ever did under Christian rule in Europe. 

It's not about religion. It's about Israel taking what is most precious to a people, their land, their homes, the lives of their children, brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles, cousins. Israel taking their dignity and forcing them into what are essentially open air concentration camps. Their barbaric actions breed hate and contempt. It's a vicious cycle.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 08, 2024, 02:13:50 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 07, 2024, 07:57:56 AM

So long as the US doesn't get involved, I'm good. Let the kids fight.

Maybe the UK can intervene.

the US is already involved....Iran is the theocratic hell hole it is because of the US. Our CIA overthrew Iran's secular democratically elected government in 1953 and installed a brutal puppet dictator who oppressed the people of that country for 26 years until he was finally overthrown. And in that collapse a bunch of lunatic religious nut-jobs were able to fill the power vacuum and seize control. It continued on, as the US has declared constant economic warfare on Iran ever since the fall of the Shah in 1979. It continued on even further when the US directly supported Iraq in it's brutal 8 year invasion of Iran- even selling Iraq chemical weapons (how do you think Cheney and Rumsfield knew Saddam had WMD....they kept the receipts) in the '80s which devastated Iran and killed over 1 million Iranians. US even blew up an Iranian airlines Airbus killing nearly 300 passengers during that war. US kills Iranian targets with bomb drones to this day. Iranians really should hate the US. Our leaders in DC have given the people of that country plenty of reasons to hate the US. 

The US is directly involved in that Israel's military would not be able to wage this war without the full-stop backing of the US providing it free advanced weaponry at expense of the US taxpayer and giving it political cover on the worlds stage vetoing and blocking any kind of UN resolution or sanction. 

We're already directly involved. That ain't changing. UK intervening? UK is America's little toy lapdog. They don't do jacksh*t unless we say jump. They are weak, ineffective cowards who take their marching orders from the US.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 08, 2024, 02:23:36 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 08, 2024, 02:13:50 PM

the US is already involved....Iran is the theocratic hell hole it is because of the US. Our CIA overthrew Iran's secular democratically elected government in 1953 and installed a brutal puppet dictator who oppressed the people of that country for 26 years until he was finally overthrown. And in that collapse a bunch of lunatic religious nut-jobs were able to fill the power vacuum and seize control. It continued on, as the US has declared constant economic warfare on Iran ever since the fall of the Shah in 1979. It continued on even further when the US directly supported Iraq in it's brutal 8 year invasion of Iran- even selling Iraq chemical weapons (how do you think Cheney and Rumsfield knew Saddam had WMD....they kept the receipts) in the '80s which devastated Iran and killed over 1 million Iranians. US even blew up an Iranian airlines Airbus killing nearly 300 passengers during that war. US kills Iranian targets with bomb drones to this day. Iranians really should hate the US. Our leaders in DC have given the people of that country plenty of reasons to hate the US.

The US is directly involved in that Israel's military would not be able to wage this war without the full-stop backing of the US providing it free advanced weaponry at expense of the US taxpayer and giving it political cover on the worlds stage vetoing and blocking any kind of UN resolution or sanction.

We're already directly involved. That ain't changing. UK intervening? UK is America's little toy lapdog. They don't do jacksh*t unless we say jump. They are weak, ineffective cowards who take their marching orders from the US.

I don't US troops involved in this at all. I know we're involved. We're involved in almost every county's business.

The UK comment was flippant, because they are the ones who started all of this shit.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 08, 2024, 02:36:59 PM

Quote from: Temp430 on April 08, 2024, 06:57:36 AM

Just deserts

https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/iranian-general-killed-in-damascus-strike-reportedly-planned-october-7-attacks-urhpihbx (https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/iranian-general-killed-in-damascus-strike-reportedly-planned-october-7-attacks-urhpihbx)

maybe the IDF should've air struck Netanyahu too- as it's HIS GOVERNMENT that has been secretly funding Hamas for years and using the Qataris to do so.

Netanyahu wanted to use Hamas to weaken the Palestinian Authority and keep them at each others throats, vying for power, fractured so there would be even less chance than the already slim chance of a unification of the West Bank and Gaza and a two state solution. Divide and conquer.

Would expect nothing less from a proven liar wannabe dictator punk and his thug government that is under heavy influence and whose grip on power relies on a coalition with a dirtbag far-right extremist ultra-national fascist nazi like theocratic party the Shas.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 08, 2024, 02:44:18 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 07, 2024, 08:21:35 PM

Let's police the world, but not get involved.......

why do we have to police the world? let's stop trying to be the worlds hallway monitor and just take care of our business and things overseas that are only of vital interest to us. mmmmkay.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 08, 2024, 02:54:28 PM

And....this is why Israel hitting an embassy and receiving zero pushback from the UN or US was unacceptable and dangerous...creates a precedent that hey, it's OK, nothing'll happen to us.....

Ecuador just raided a Mexican embassy to arrest a former Vice President of there's. Mexico has condemned the attack and has severed all diplomatic ties with Ecuador.

Even the US/Soviets at the height of the cold war never dared to dream of trying any sh*t that reckless and crazy and going after each others embassy compounds.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2024, 03:15:56 PM

I don't have a problem with Israel hitting an embassy and killing soldiers/thugs/evil characters

I have a problem with Israel killing Civilians/Women/children/foriegn aid workers

barbaric bullshit

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 08, 2024, 05:05:38 PM

Eclipse 10/10 highly recommend 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 08, 2024, 05:06:22 PM

I say it’s spinach. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 08, 2024, 05:12:00 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 08, 2024, 05:05:38 PM

Eclipse 10/10 highly recommend

Got a little darker here. 52% eclipse at 3PM. It's all gone now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 08, 2024, 05:38:11 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 08, 2024, 05:12:00 PM

Got a little darker here. 52% eclipse at 3PM. It's all gone now.

It is pretty amazing how much light there is even when the moon blocks 99% of the sun. We were lucky to get a clear, really beautiful day. The total eclipse was pretty moving. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 08, 2024, 06:15:53 PM

Cloud deck in MSP was impenetrable. Streetlights didn't even come on here.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 08, 2024, 06:28:14 PM

https://willyorwonthe.wordpress.com/2020/01/31/i-say-its-spinach/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: LetsGoPeay on April 08, 2024, 06:44:42 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 08, 2024, 05:05:38 PM

Eclipse 10/10 highly recommend

The hype and overblown preparations for the eclipse around here kind of made me indifferent to it. But once it occurred and I was looking at the corona without any kind of eye protection I was all in on it. It was very cool. I can definitely see how ancient peoples absolutely lost their shit when total eclipses occurred. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2024, 06:46:07 PM

and I say the Hell with it

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 08, 2024, 09:32:58 PM

Quote from: LetsGoPeay on April 08, 2024, 06:44:42 PM

The hype and overblown preparations for the eclipse around here kind of made me indifferent to it. But once it occurred and I was looking at the corona without any kind of eye protection I was all in on it. It was very cool. I can definitely see how ancient peoples absolutely lost their shit when total eclipses occurred.

Oh yeah, if that happened just while I'm out in the field, minding the crops? Take my excess potatoes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 08, 2024, 09:57:32 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 08, 2024, 06:46:07 PM

and I say the Hell with it

(https://i.imgur.com/0aUQhMi.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MarqHusker on April 08, 2024, 10:41:29 PM

It was much more interesting than I anticipated. 

The amount of aircraft buzzing around was also pretty incredible.   We had around 3 1/2 minutes of totality.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 08, 2024, 10:52:49 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 08, 2024, 02:44:18 PM

why do we have to police the world? let's stop trying to be the worlds hallway monitor and just take care of our business and things overseas that are only of vital interest to us. mmmmkay.

We don't have to, we choose to.  Don't look at me, I didn't do it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 08, 2024, 10:59:18 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 08, 2024, 01:40:10 PM

no, it does not make perfect sense, and it's a violation of international law as well as occupying armies are bound by international law to well, NOT illegally occupy- and all armies are bound to take measures to avoid killing women and children, not kill everything that moves and slaughter them en masse like Israel does.Hamas causes this, so you're advocating for allowing their strategy of being among the innocent to work Big Bad evil Hitler Putin's war has killed around 500 children in Ukraine in over 2 years. Israel's war has killed TENS OF THOUSANDS OF THEM in.... 6 months.

you can also flip that really dumb sh*t you just said that I underlined on it's head and say, Israel poked the bear one too many times during it's illegal 57 year occupation of the territories of the land of the Palestinian people and I understand the Palestinian response. Both just wildly stupid things to say. Hamas terrorist attacks are not acceptable. Obviously. And neither is the response from Israel, which has been far more brutal, horrific, and taken far more innocent lives than anything Hamas could ever dream of pulling off.  The moment I heard what was happening on Oct 7, I said a lot of innocent Palestinians are going to die.

people act like all this sh*t just started October 7th with Hamas.Literally no one acts like this is anything new newsflash: it's been going on since the early 1900s, when the first wave of European jews immigrated to Palestine- which ended in 1903. Prior to that first wave of European jews immigrating which began in 1880- just 144 years ago- NOT THAT LONG AGO- there were only 25,000 Jews in the entire territory of what is now Israel and Palestine. By the start of WWI there was a 220% increase in population from 1880- but there were still only 80,000 Jews in what is now Israel and Palestine. It continued on to 1916 when the British reneged on a deal with the Arabs to support statehood for the Arabs who lived in what is now Israel-Palestine, if they revolted against Ottoman rule. Well they revolted and toppled their Ottoman overlords, only for the British to stab them in the back and secretly cut a pact with the French to divide the former Ottoman lands and control all the puppet states that followed. The British had no right to do this. To make matters worse- a year later in 1917 the British promised support for taking land from Palestinians for a future Jewish state in Palestine with the Balfour declaration- a promise they had no legal authority to make. An occupying country (UK) has no right to promise land it occupies to a 3rd party for a future statehood. This is an absurdity. The Balfour declaration was nothing more than out-right anti-semitism from a European power to "get them out of our country" and nothing more- the British didn't give two sh*ts about a Jewish state- they just wanted Jews out of their country. The biggest anti-semites in history by FAR has been the European Christian nations.  Christians have a greedy, fucked-up history?  Duh.

Every death of an innocent is on Hamas' hands.  Their attack created an inevitability.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 08, 2024, 11:06:54 PM

https://twitter.com/KwikTrip/status/1777409885216309370?t=v-V2E8nWQ84x3w0M3v7qKQ&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 08, 2024, 11:07:38 PM

I don't get the hullabaloo about the eclipse.  Google image search it.  OOOOHHH!!!!!!  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 09, 2024, 06:33:38 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 08, 2024, 11:07:38 PM

I don't get the hullabaloo about the eclipse.  Google image search it.  OOOOHHH!!!!!! 

It's similar to a naked woman

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on April 09, 2024, 07:14:49 AM

I was randomly thinking about how vulnerable and expensive our carrier fleet is. We have by far the most carriers of any nation.  I’m not even sure any other nation has “real” carriers that launch anything other than harrier type planes or less capable warplanes with ski jump setups. 

What would stop another nation from using a icbm type conventional weapon to take out a carrier?  With satellites I don’t think there is any mystery about where either ours or our adversaries major ships are at all times. It frightens me that an absurd amount of our military projected power could be easily taken out with relatively mature technology. I hope the military is prepared somehow for this possibility.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2024, 08:13:13 AM

A lot of stupid people watch stupid people and they become more stupid.


"The View" co-host Sunny Hostin blamed Monday’s solar eclipse, Friday’s earthquake and the expected cicada breeding season on "climate change."

"All those things together would maybe lead one to believe that either climate change exists or something is really going on," she said Monday.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 09, 2024, 08:19:26 AM

Carriers move fairly quickly which makes them hard to hit with a ballistic missile. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 09, 2024, 08:47:04 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2024, 08:13:13 AM

A lot of stupid people watch stupid people and they become more stupid.

"The View" co-host Sunny Hostin blamed Monday’s solar eclipse, Friday’s earthquake and the expected cicada breeding season on "climate change."

"All those things together would maybe lead one to believe that either climate change exists or something is really going on," she said Monday.

The sad thing there are many in our government/Presidents cabinet nodding in agreement

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2024, 09:25:07 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 09, 2024, 08:19:26 AM

Carriers move fairly quickly which makes them hard to hit with a ballistic missile.

Hypersonic?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 09, 2024, 09:25:47 AM

something is really going on

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 09, 2024, 09:26:20 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 08, 2024, 05:05:38 PM

Eclipse 10/10 highly recommend

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 08, 2024, 05:38:11 PM

It is pretty amazing how much light there is even when the moon blocks 99% of the sun. We were lucky to get a clear, really beautiful day. The total eclipse was pretty moving.

Yeah it was pretty awesome.  I've never seen anything like it, and it's highly likely I never will again.

For people who have only seen partial eclipses, or even saw as much as 99% yesterday but not totality, all I can say is-- it's a completely different experience.  There's just no way to compare it to anything else, unless I suppose you're an astronaut.

The clouds were patchy during the leadup, but we got lucky and got a cloud break through almost the entirety of totality.  

I also recommend, would see again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 09, 2024, 09:31:12 AM

I probably would have walked outside my house to take a gander if it had been a total thing here

I didn't bother to walk outside for whatever it was that folks here could see

I wouldn't drive a couple hours to see it.

And I drive a couple hours just to meet with a customer on a Tuesday

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 09, 2024, 09:39:02 AM

Man Fearless really is an eclipse-hater.  Negative responses every time someone so much as mentions it.

Do you need to show us on the doll, where the solar eclipse touched you?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2024, 09:42:11 AM

I did not know about this.

Bundle of Bats: Maternity season for Florida's nocturnal mammal (winknews.com) (https://winknews.com/2024/04/09/bat-maternity-season-florida/?utm_source=winknewsapp&utm_medium=pushalert&utm_campaign=2024-04-09-Bundle-of-Bats)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 09, 2024, 10:00:01 AM

not a hater

just not interesting to me

kinda like the CMT awards the other night

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 09, 2024, 10:06:59 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 09, 2024, 10:00:01 AM

not a hater

just not interesting to me

kinda like the CMT awards the other night

or golf

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 09, 2024, 10:16:11 AM

or marching bands

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 09, 2024, 10:20:48 AM

or B1G football

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 09, 2024, 10:28:45 AM

or the unicorn network

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 09, 2024, 10:38:22 AM

Or Nebraska athletics

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 09, 2024, 10:43:59 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/rBIcQlm.jpeg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on April 09, 2024, 10:54:44 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 09, 2024, 08:19:26 AM

Carriers move fairly quickly which makes them hard to hit with a ballistic missile.

Space X can land a orbital class rocket on a moving barge.  I think you're thinking in terms of old technology, where a missile is fed a target and just let fly there in a dumb way.  I'd think that you could have a spy satellite or similar station itself over the area the carrier is in and feed it live coordinates and it would be guided in.  Or you could have human control, similar to smart bombs we've had since the 90's.  

What I'm saying is that I don't see how it would really be that hard to take out a carrier with technology that is very common today.  I know the military is worried about hypersonic missiles, but a ballistic missiles IMO would be harder to stop.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 09, 2024, 11:04:51 AM

Aegis class.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on April 09, 2024, 11:07:52 AM

Quote from: Gigem on April 09, 2024, 10:54:44 AM

Space X can land a orbital class rocket on a moving barge.  I think you're thinking in terms of old technology, where a missile is fed a target and just let fly there in a dumb way.  I'd think that you could have a spy satellite or similar station itself over the area the carrier is in and feed it live coordinates and it would be guided in.  Or you could have human control, similar to smart bombs we've had since the 90's. 

What I'm saying is that I don't see how it would really be that hard to take out a carrier with technology that is very common today.  I know the military is worried about hypersonic missiles, but a ballistic missiles IMO would be harder to stop. 

Plus, you'd have to consider a MIRV, where one rocket/BM has multiple warheads, even if they are not nuclear.  You could blanket a larger area with multiple MIRV's, and multiple BM.  Not sure well it would work in practice, and if there would be enough explosive force in a MIRV to truly damage a carrier.  We haven't really had carriers sustain battle damage since WWII, and I'd water that most of the bombs dropped by prop planes are not nearly as powerful as what modern jets/ICBM can carry. 

Whether or not the missile would be detected from the other nation, and perceived as a nuclear threat, is unclear.  Other nations launch rockets all the time, so far few have been ICBM's ( we test launch our ICBM's all the time FWIW).  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on April 09, 2024, 11:11:51 AM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System

Ballistic Missile Defense[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Aegis_Combat_System&action=edit&section=4)]
The Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense System (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Ballistic_Missile_Defense_System) (BMD) program by the U.S. Missile Defense Agency (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missile_Defense_Agency) enables the Aegis system to act in a sea-based ballistic missile defense (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_missile_defense) function, to counter short- and medium-range ballistic missiles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_missile) of the variety typically employed by a number of potential opponent states. The program is part of the United States national missile defense (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_national_missile_defense) strategy and NATO European missile defense system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_missile_defence_system).^{[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System#cite_note-The_White_House-1)}
BMD capabilities allow vessels equipped with Mk 41 Vertical Launching System (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_41_Vertical_Launching_System) (VLS) to intercept ballistic missiles in post-boost phase and prior to reentry, using the RIM-161 Standard Missile 3 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-161_Standard_Missile_3) (SM-3) mid-course interceptors^{[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System#cite_note-13)} and the RIM-156 Standard Missile 2 Extended Range Block IV (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-156_SM-2ER_Block_IV) (SM-2ER Block IV)^{[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System#cite_note-14)} terminal-phase interceptors.^{[15] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System#cite_note-15)} The SM-2ER Block IV can engage the ballistic missiles within the atmosphere (i.e. endoatmospheric intercept) in the terminal phase of a missile's trajectory with a blast fragmentation warhead. The Standard Missile 3 is a development of the SM2-ER Block IV, capable of exo-atmospheric intercept (i.e. above the atmosphere) during the midcourse phase; its kinetic warhead (KW) is designed to destroy a ballistic missile's warhead by colliding with it. RIM-174 Standard ERAM (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-174_Standard_ERAM) (Standard Missile 6) extended range active missile is a further development of the SM-2ER Block IV, which adds a booster and an active radar homing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_radar_homing) seeker.^{[16] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System#cite_note-naval-technology.com-16)} SM-6 can be used for either air defense or ballistic missile defense, providing extended range and increased firepower; it is not intended to replace the SM-2 series of missiles.^{[17] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System#cite_note-17)} The SM-6 Block IB includes a larger 21-inch rocket motor that sits on top of the 21-inch booster.^{[18] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System#cite_note-news.usni.org-18)}
To enable Ballistic Missile Defense capabilities, signal processing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_processing) for the SPY-1 radar was upgraded using commercial off-the-shelf (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_off-the-shelf) components and open architecture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_architecture) standards.^{[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System#cite_note-19)} The Multi-Mission Signal Processor (MMSP) provides Anti-Air Warfare (AAW) and Ballistic Missile Defense (BMD) capability for the first 28 ships (DDGs 51–78) of the U.S. Navy's Arleigh Burke-class destroyers. This capability is also incorporated in USS John Finn (DDG-113) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_John_Finn) and following new construction, as well as Aegis Ashore. MMSP modifies transmitters of the SPY-1D (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPY-1) radar to enable dual-beam operation for reduced frame times and better reaction time, and provides stability for all waveforms (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waveform), allowing the radar system to detect, track, and support engagements of a broader range of threats. MMSP improves performance in littoral (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Littoral), ducted clutter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clutter_(radar)), electronic attack (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_attack) (EA), and chaff (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaff_(countermeasure)) environments and provides greater commonality in computer programs and equipment.^{[20] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System#cite_note-20)[21] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System#cite_note-21)}
As of April 2022, the U.S. and Japan are the only countries to purchase or deploy the Aegis BMD on their military ships.^{[22] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System#cite_note-RL33745-22)[23] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System#cite_note-23)[24] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System#cite_note-24)}
Flight III of Arleigh Burke class destroyers starting with USS Jack H. Lucas (DDG-125) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Jack_H._Lucas) are equipped with AN/SPY-6 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/SPY-6) AESA radar from Raytheon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raytheon), which is 30 times more sensitive and thus can handle 30 times more targets comparing to the SPY-1D radar, providing increased air and missile defense capabilities.^{[25] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System#cite_note-30xCapable-25)[26] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System#cite_note-spy6family-26)} Flight IIA ships will also be upgraded to SPY-6 in the future, giving them Aegis BMD capabilities.^{[26] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System#cite_note-spy6family-26)[25] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System#cite_note-30xCapable-25)}
Aegis Ashore (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Ashore) is a land-based version of Aegis BMD which includes the AN/SPY-1 radar and command systems, and Mk 41 VLS equipped SM-3 and SM-6 missiles. Test installation exists at the Pacific Missile Range Facility (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Missile_Range_Facility) in Hawaii (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii). A site (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deveselu_Military_Base) in Deveselu (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deveselu), Romania (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania) is operational since 2016, and a site near Redzikowo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redzikowo), Poland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland) will become operational in 2022. Japan intended to deploy two systems with an AN/SPY-7 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/SPY-7) AESA radar by 2021, but cancelled these plans in 2020. Possible deployments of Aegis Ashore include U.S. naval base at Guam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guam).^{[22] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System#cite_note-RL33745-22)}
U.S. Army Integrated Air and Missile Defense Battle Command System (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Futures_Command#Integrated_Air_and_Missile_Defense_Battle_Command_System) (IBCS) program aims to integrate Aegis BMD and its AN/SPY-1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/SPY-1) and AN/SPY-6 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/SPY-6) radars with MIM-104 Patriot (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-104_Patriot) (AN/MPQ-65 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/MPQ-65)A and GhostEye), NASAMS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASAMS) (GhostEye MR), AN/TPY-2 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/TPY-2) (THAAD (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THAAD) and GMD (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-Based_Midcourse_Defense)), and F-35 Lightning II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-35_Lightning_II) (AN/APG-81 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/APG-81)) radars to form a plug and fight (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug_and_fight) network of land, sea, and air-based sensors to help detect and track ballistic missile threats and select Patriot and THAAD surface-to-air launchers that are best positioned for a successful intercept.

Glad to know we have something to counter.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 09, 2024, 11:14:40 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 09, 2024, 09:26:20 AM

Yeah it was pretty awesome.  I've never seen anything like it, and it's highly likely I never will again.

For people who have only seen partial eclipses, or even saw as much as 99% yesterday but not totality, all I can say is-- it's a completely different experience.  There's just no way to compare it to anything else, unless I suppose you're an astronaut.

The clouds were patchy during the leadup, but we got lucky and got a cloud break through almost the entirety of totality. 

I also recommend, would see again.

I am jealous. Have never seen a total eclipse in person.   Can only imagine from photos how cool it is.   I did go look at it here in Florida, and even though it was roughly a half eclipse, it was still pretty cool to see it   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on April 09, 2024, 11:17:25 AM

We saw about a 94% eclipse here around Houston.  You're right, it really wasn't impressive.  I would have like to see the full eclipse in person, but it just wasn't in the cards yet.  Maybe next time.....in another part of the world.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 09, 2024, 11:22:54 AM

Yeah I've seen several partial eclipses, and they're been interesting.  I doubt I'd ever travel to see another partial but if one comes to my location I'll certainly go outside and look at it.  Especially now that I have several pair of eclipse glasses!

Now, for a total eclipse-- I might be tempted to travel for one again.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 09, 2024, 11:33:39 AM

Bear in mind the warhead from any ICBM will be without communication during reentry due to friction.  And you’d need to hit within a hundred meters or so to damage a carrier without a nuke. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 09, 2024, 11:53:41 AM

and almost all nuclear missiles from our enemies would be outdated older models

not sure how easy it would be to upgrade those things

war heads interchangeable?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 09, 2024, 12:13:42 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 09, 2024, 11:14:40 AM

I am jealous. Have never seen a total eclipse in person.  Can only imagine from photos how cool it is.  I did go look at it here in Florida, and even though it was roughly a half eclipse, it was still pretty cool to see it 

Mark your calendar - August 12, 2045. Right through Florida.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2024, 12:20:51 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 09, 2024, 12:13:42 PM

Mark your calendar - August 12, 2045. Right through Florida.

I'd be 78. She'd be 83.

Weird to think about this.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2024, 12:27:14 PM

C'mon now. Just do it.

Canada stuck in NATO penalty box through 2030 (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/canada-stuck-in-nato-penalty-box-through-2030/ar-BB1lkRoK?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=78c072b59b22435db2b008a58c57f888&ei=23)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 09, 2024, 12:33:08 PM

I'd be 83

just hope to be around

the goal now is 85

or I should just start taking SS at the end of the year

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 09, 2024, 12:36:19 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2024, 12:20:51 PM

I'd be 78. She'd be 83.

Weird to think about this.

My fraternity brother (fellow EE, who used to live down here in San Diego) who is a day older than me already sent my wife and I calendar invites for 2043 when we both turn 65 for a French wine tasting trip to kick off our retirements. 

Gonna have to start planning that, I guess :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2024, 12:36:42 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 09, 2024, 12:33:08 PM

I'd be 83

just hope to be around

the goal now is 85

or I should just start taking SS at the end of the year

I would have started at 62, but you're probably making too much money.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 09, 2024, 12:38:15 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 09, 2024, 12:13:42 PM

Mark your calendar - August 12, 2045. Right through Florida.

Forget all that, there's going to be two in a row that hit Spain in 2026 and 2027.  Easy peasy!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2024, 12:42:50 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 09, 2024, 12:38:15 PM

Forget all that, there's going to be two in a row that hit Spain in 2026 and 2027.  Easy peasy!

Just found a great excuse to get back to Barcelona!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 09, 2024, 12:58:35 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2024, 12:36:42 PM

I would have started at 62, but you're probably making too much money.

yup, would possibly bump me into the next tax bracket.
I'm not familiar with all the rules of SS.
I'll start asking those questions before the end of the year.
Turning 62 in July

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2024, 01:02:37 PM

How Much Can You Earn While on Social Security? - NerdWallet (https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/investing/social-security/how-much-can-you-earn-while-on-social-security#:~:text=People younger than full retirement age (67 for,earnings cap after hitting full retirement age)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 09, 2024, 01:25:01 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 09, 2024, 12:13:42 PM

Mark your calendar - August 12, 2045. Right through Florida.

There's one on August 23, 2044 out in western North Dakota.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2024, 01:25:59 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on April 09, 2024, 01:25:01 PM

There's one on August 23, 2044 out in western North Dakota.

That's no gouda for those of us who reside in Florida.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 09, 2024, 01:29:45 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2024, 01:25:59 PM

That's no gouda for those of us who reside in Florida.

Yeah I'd travel to Spain for one, not sure  I'd travel to Western North Dakota though. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 09, 2024, 01:34:39 PM

Board meeting, Barcelona 2026.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 09, 2024, 01:43:51 PM

Futbol

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 09, 2024, 03:20:48 PM

Can't fix stupid

https://twitter.com/TheWapplehouse/status/1777531757350281535

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 09, 2024, 10:26:23 PM

nothing wrong with Western North Dakota

I'll host

it'll be less expensive than Spain

no passport required

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 09, 2024, 10:38:43 PM

not yet

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 10, 2024, 06:58:32 AM

What's up with Boeing and how does it get fixed? Is it an engineering issue, or a factory issue?

'Airplanes Are Not Like Ikea Furniture': American Airlines Pilot Sounds Alarm On Boeing 'Mess' (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/airplanes-are-not-like-ikea-furniture-american-airlines-pilot-sounds-alarm-on-boeing-mess/ar-BB1lnqIr?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=1b6343089f614ed08916356449800e33&ei=14)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 10, 2024, 08:12:21 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 09, 2024, 10:26:23 PM

nothing wrong with Western North Dakota

I'll host

it'll be less expensive than Spain

no passport required

Well geography's not the only issue.  There's also the fact that in 2044 I'll be 72 and you guys will be... well... older than that, hopefully.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 10, 2024, 08:33:02 AM

94 the good news about the afterlife is they have beisbol/futbol there. The bad news is you'll be suiting up by then,no worries they have pho broth,beef ribs & Tito's 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 10, 2024, 09:32:54 AM

Quote from: Gigem on April 09, 2024, 07:14:49 AM

I was randomly thinking about how vulnerable and expensive our carrier fleet is. We have by far the most carriers of any nation.  I’m not even sure any other nation has “real” carriers that launch anything other than harrier type planes or less capable warplanes with ski jump setups.

What would stop another nation from using a icbm type conventional weapon to take out a carrier?  With satellites I don’t think there is any mystery about where either ours or our adversaries major ships are at all times. It frightens me that an absurd amount of our military projected power could be easily taken out with relatively mature technology. I hope the military is prepared somehow for this possibility. 

The introduction of the Type 093B signifies China’s strategic intent to deploy submarines as a counter to aircraft carriers and as a platform for land attacks, enabling strikes from significantly greater distances. This capability could alter the strategic balance in the Indo-Pacific region, as the Pentagon report suggests that up to three Type 093Bs could be operational within a year. China’s submarine fleet, now totaling 65 vessels, reflects the nation's continued naval expansion and the emphasis on enhancing its undersea warfare capabilities.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/type-093b-china-building-fleet-guided-missiles-submarines-210469 (https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/type-093b-china-building-fleet-guided-missiles-submarines-210469)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 10, 2024, 09:36:52 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 10, 2024, 06:58:32 AM

What's up with Boeing and how does it get fixed? Is it an engineering issue, or a factory issue?

'Airplanes Are Not Like Ikea Furniture': American Airlines Pilot Sounds Alarm On Boeing 'Mess' (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/airplanes-are-not-like-ikea-furniture-american-airlines-pilot-sounds-alarm-on-boeing-mess/ar-BB1lnqIr?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=1b6343089f614ed08916356449800e33&ei=14)

Management. Boeing is what happens when bean counters and MBAs run an engineering organization.

Go read 747: Creating the World's First Jumbo Jet (https://www.amazon.com/747-Creating-Worlds-Adventures-Aviation/dp/0060882425) by Joe Sutter, who was the chief engineer on the project. Boeing of the 50s and 60s is a very different animal from how it is now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 10, 2024, 09:39:24 AM

bean counters ALWAYS win

I can see that they should win sometimes, but not EVERYtime

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on April 10, 2024, 10:34:46 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on April 10, 2024, 09:36:52 AM

Management. Boeing is what happens when bean counters and MBAs run an engineering organization.

Go read 747: Creating the World's First Jumbo Jet (https://www.amazon.com/747-Creating-Worlds-Adventures-Aviation/dp/0060882425) by Joe Sutter, who was the chief engineer on the project. Boeing of the 50s and 60s is a very different animal from how it is now.

Is it really that bad?  Because it almost seems to me that a business that builds machines as complicated as Boeing does is always going to have some issues.  The door blowing out was bad, but nobody died.  The MCAS crashes have been acknowledged as a failure but there is some doubt about the ability of the pilots to understand the system that was operating mostly as intended.  There has to be thousands of their planes flying safely every day, with no issues, but now every time something happens it gets endless media coverage.  Almost as if the media has it in for them.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2024, 08:16:16 AM

The inflation thief.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/inflation-cpi-biden-federal-reserve-jerome-powell-321af383?st=r9mhgh7m1wghg76&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 11, 2024, 09:13:04 AM

Larry Robbins jokes he’s the last hedge fund manager to move to Florida.

But unlike those who relocated before him — most notably Citadel’s Ken Griffin — Robbins’ move comes with a twist. The founder of Glenview Capital Management is going to make Florida his family home and keep New York his professional one, at least for now.


Robbins, 54, will commute to Manhattan starting in August and largely abide by Glenview’s three-days-in-the-office policy — using his Alpine, New Jersey home as his base, he said in an interview. Meanwhile, he, his wife and three young children will temporarily live in a mansion in Palm Beach Gardens while building a house in Hobe Sound after his kids were admitted to the prestigious Benjamin School.

The decision by Robbins, a longtime leader at the Robin Hood Foundation, an antipoverty charity popular on Wall Street, ushers in a potentially new phase of the city’s wealth migration. While other Robin Hood board members like Paul Tudor Jones, Dan Och and Barry Sternlicht flocked to Florida in a more typical “snowbird” shift, Robbins is opting to relocate at a time when New York is trying to find its footing after the pandemic upended its economy.

“I know of no business that has generated long term success by driving away its highest paying customers,” Robbins said during an hour-long interview, his first since disclosing his plans to investors. “I am in fear for New York’s most vulnerable to become victimized by the great migration.”


https://fortune.com/2024/04/10/larry-robbins-hedge-fund-manager-moving-florida-from-new-york/ (https://fortune.com/2024/04/10/larry-robbins-hedge-fund-manager-moving-florida-from-new-york/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2024, 09:16:20 AM

Only a matter of time that the move is permanent.

Man, there is so much money coming in down here. Unreal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 11, 2024, 04:01:07 PM

Probably the biggest threat to our carriers is large torpedoes, many of them.  The problem with an ICBM kind of attack with conventional warheads is that the warhead when reentering is blinded, the "blackout" phenomenon.  The shielding gets very hot and cuts of any radio emissions in or out.  So, it can be redirected, and it can't use radar to ponpoint the carrier group.  By the time it comes out of blackout, a carrier group, being alerted to the attack, would be ten miles away from any possible point of impact.  This wouldn't require any Aegis screening of course.  You could saturate the area and maybe get lucky, but even that is improbable.

A carrier is a tough kill, the battle group would have of course a number of other vessels around it including a 688 class submarine.  The Soviet era Backfire bomber was designed to kill carrier groups, and the F-14 was designed to shoot down Backfires at extreme range.  That era is gone.  The Chinese no doubt have looked carefully at all of this, their most obvious approach is to build their own carriers, smaller ones, but plausibly capable in time.  Ours are spread over the globe, or being refurbished, or in quals, so it's not easy for us to put two of them together in one theater for a period of time.  I think we have ten now, and three are usually in dock, 3 are in quals, and 4 may be on station, that can be surged for a while.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2024, 07:07:38 PM

Andrew Zimmern just said:

"When you eat at a 3* Michelin restaurant, you get a child's portion meal designed by an interior decorator."

Pretty on point.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2024, 07:51:24 AM

So, the FBI director is warning us of a terror attack(s) within our borders. Not that we have those... I wonder how the supposed terrorists gained entry to our country?

What a cluster.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on April 12, 2024, 07:56:18 AM

Wray is worried that Congress wont re-authorize the FISA court.  Congress should re-authorize but reform FISA to require a warrant if a surveilled conversation includes a US citizen.  And immediate deletion of all data if there was no warrant.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2024, 08:03:51 AM

FISA has never been abused...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on April 12, 2024, 08:06:02 AM

Carter Page might disagree with you.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2024, 08:29:11 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 11, 2024, 07:07:38 PM

Andrew Zimmern just said:

"When you eat at a 3* Michelin restaurant, you get a child's portion meal designed by an interior decorator."

In my sole example, there was a LOT of food, more than my wife could eat.  But I agree each "dish" was served s a decoration.  The taste and any quality of the food was obliterated by that, in my view.  That's the main reason I disdained the experience.  

I fully prefer a dish be artfully prepared, no problem with that, but this was an extreme.  If it tastes good and is interesting, it wouldn't need to be served perched on a rock.

Of course, I also disdained "Hamilton", something apparently rare as an opinion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2024, 08:31:14 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on April 12, 2024, 08:06:02 AM

Carter Page might disagree with you.

You need to turn on your sarcasm meter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2024, 08:34:34 AM

If a warrant is obtained by using falsified information presented to a FISA court ....   ????

That strikes me as a major loophole that I think was used in the cited case.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2024, 08:49:04 AM

Exactly.

Back to the terror warning.

I was talking to my brother last night about this. Probably doesn't apply here since we are gated, but he is not.

There could be a terror cell in his neighborhood, and he wouldn't know it. The idea of that in itself is frightening. That's where we are now. They are here, without a doubt. 

But where?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on April 12, 2024, 08:51:34 AM

There one in Congress from Dearborn, MI.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2024, 09:01:22 AM

I'd think any covert terror cell would be a rare thing in the US, and more apt to try and target something of political interest, not isolated individuals or residential areas.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 12, 2024, 09:05:53 AM

political interest like a large gathering of national or world interest

College football playoff - Super bowl - Taylor Swift concert - Cornhusker Spring Scrimmage

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 12, 2024, 09:07:11 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 12, 2024, 09:01:22 AM

I'd think any covert terror cell would be a rare thing in the US, and more apt to try and target something of political interest, not isolated individuals or residential areas.

Well, or large/meaningful commercial centers and/or public icons like the World Trade Centers.

But yeah, private residential areas are probably are not high on the list of terror targets.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on April 12, 2024, 09:07:53 AM

I remember back in the mid-80s when I was in New Mexico a couple Chinese men in a rented car ran a security gate at Los Alamos National Labs.  This kind of thing is still going on and since, most recently with a military age illegal "immigrant" last month.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/chinese-illegal-immigrant-arrested-driving-military-base-california (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/chinese-illegal-immigrant-arrested-driving-military-base-california)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2024, 09:11:38 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 12, 2024, 09:07:11 AM

Well, or large/meaningful commercial centers and/or public icons like the World Trade Centers.

But yeah, private residential areas are probably are not high on the list of terror targets.

They gotta live and have a base somewhere. I'm not saying my brother will be attacked in his Schaumburg townhome.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 12, 2024, 09:19:52 AM

Guessing I'm in a low risk area

not just for terrorist targets but most types of bullshart

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2024, 09:21:29 AM

The danger around me would be more individually based, I suspect, but also quite low apparently.

The general area experienced some riots and looting a while back but it was pretty contained and had no impact on us directly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2024, 09:23:10 AM

Iconic targets. 

I should check the enrollment roster at the flight school up the road, in Venice.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2024, 10:05:24 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/K0FkKkC.png)

A history lesson ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2024, 10:08:36 AM

Please explain.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2024, 10:10:01 AM

It's a map of the famous Australian-Hungarian Empire .... I figured everybody here would know that.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2024, 10:16:41 AM

Not me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on April 12, 2024, 10:38:59 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 12, 2024, 10:10:01 AM

It's a map of the famous Australian-Hungarian Empire .... I figured everybody here would know that.

Always fun to learn about when studying WWI

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2024, 10:52:53 AM

I will admit to not knowing too much about WWI.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 12, 2024, 11:02:39 AM

I'm looking for a costume for a speakeasy party.
Prohibition era suit and hat.
Post WWI - roaring 20s

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 12, 2024, 11:05:23 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 12, 2024, 09:19:52 AM

Guessing I'm in a low risk area

not just for terrorist targets but most types of bullshart

Don't move there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 12, 2024, 11:08:02 AM

might just make a short move to southeastern South Dakota

tax advantages like Texas & Florida w/o all the trouble

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 12, 2024, 11:11:16 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 12, 2024, 11:02:39 AM

I'm looking for a costume for a speakeasy party.
Prohibition era suit and hat.
Post WWI - roaring 20s

https://www.partycity.com/adult-head-honcho-costume---20s-gangster-941086.html?extcmp=pla%7CLia%7CGoogle&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwt-OwBhBnEiwAgwzrUqc0k7iI8yvdBS7GDW2Oi44XSn7bridepkOcz33jj3kYQ_A72pUXchoCJbAQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 12, 2024, 11:27:17 AM

hah, $45

I suppose the hat is an additional $10

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 12, 2024, 11:35:46 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 12, 2024, 11:27:17 AM

hah, $45

I suppose the hat is an additional $10

Yup!

You could check Goodwill or some other thrift shops.  Any double-breasted pinstriped suit would work and I still occasionally see some out there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 12, 2024, 11:38:48 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 12, 2024, 10:10:01 AM

It's a map of the famous Australian-Hungarian Empire .... I figured everybody here would know that.

Weren't India and Australia British?

The geopolitics of World War I are far more influential to the current state of the world than one might suspect. 

My great grandfather was a Doughboy. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2024, 11:43:13 AM

Hmmm 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 12, 2024, 01:32:31 PM

I think biplanes are kick-ass.  That's the extent of my knowledge and opinions of WW1.

(https://i.imgur.com/c58VuX0.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2024, 01:51:13 PM

No, an Austrian airport doesn’t have a desk for travelers who thought they were going to Australia | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-austria-australia-salzburg-airport-counter-337704614289)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2024, 01:52:01 PM

For anyone interested, the book "Guns of August" is a fairly short well written history of the early part of WW I.  I've read quite a bit about the war and it's more interesting in some ways than I would have guessed beforehand.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 12, 2024, 01:52:57 PM

Never mind, I get the terrible map.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2024, 01:53:19 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/C06X7hC.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2024, 02:20:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 12, 2024, 01:52:01 PM

For anyone interested, the book "Guns of August" is a fairly short well written history of the early part of WW I.  I've read quite a bit about the war and it's more interesting in some ways than I would have guessed beforehand.

I do need to learn more. Just looking at maps from the time is really interesting to me. Doesn't look much like today's map, or even one from 1946.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2024, 02:37:13 PM

You can see a part of France then in German hands, and Germany extended well east into what is now Poland and Russia.

(https://i.imgur.com/kvw2HZu.png)

The Ottoman's got into all of this in part due to the German cruiser Goeben.  They chose poorly.

SMS Goeben (Yavuz Sultan Selim) Battlecruiser Warship Specifications and Pictures (militaryfactory.com) (https://www.militaryfactory.com/ships/detail.php?ship_id=SMS-Goeben)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2024, 03:47:23 PM

Crude oil prices today: WTI, Brent rise as Israel braces for Iran attack (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/12/crude-oil-prices-today.html)

Crude oil futures rose more than 1% Friday on reports that Israel is preparing for a direct attack by Iran this weekend, in what would be the biggest escalation of Middle East tensions since the start of the Israel-Hamas war last October.
The West Texas Intermediate (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/@CL.1/) contract for May delivery hit a session high of $87.67, while June Brent futures rallied to $92.18. Exxon Mobil (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/XOM/) stock hit an all-time intraday high of $123.74 as the oil rally lifted the energy sector.

U.S. crude was last up 98 cents, or 1.13%, at $85.98 a barrel, while the global benchmark was trading at $90.73, up 1.10% or 99 cents.
Israel is preparing for a direct attack by Iran on southern or northern Israel as soon as Friday or Saturday, a person familiar with the matter (https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/iranian-attack-expected-on-israel-in-next-two-days-42b0537c) told The Wall Street Journal. A person briefed by Iran’s leadership told the Journal that no final decision has been made, though plans for a strike are under discussion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: LetsGoPeay on April 12, 2024, 05:43:19 PM

Dan Carlin has an awesome podcast on WWI called Blueprint for Armageddon. It's currently unavailable on his website but if you can find it elsewhere it's highly recommended. It's roughly 12 hours in total. I tortured my oldest son with it as we drove down to Cartersville, GA for one of his basketball tournaments a few years ago. 

https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-50-55-blueprint-for-armageddon-series/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2024, 06:01:20 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/pwLRQPq.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 13, 2024, 09:20:20 AM

Used to drive to Wisconsin all the time to buy beer/liquor. 45 minutes each way. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2024, 09:28:37 AM

My first day at UNC we took some pretty extensive tests.  When I got out, I was exhausted and walked up into town to get a beverage.  I was 20.  I did not realize laws varied state by state.  I walked into a bar, clearly a bar, and ordered a G&T and the guy looked at me like I was crazy and said "We don't serve liquor."  They did have beer.

Coming from Athens, where bars were "bars", this was a bit of a shock.  And one could only buy liquor from an ABC (state) store or in some private club.  I later discovered that downtown Chapel Hill had only three "bars" worth naming, which also was a shock to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 13, 2024, 09:43:45 AM

used to drive to South Dakota to buy 3.2 beer

about 35 minutes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 13, 2024, 09:44:44 AM

SYDNEY (AP) — A man stabbed six people to death at a busy Sydney shopping center Saturday before he was fatally shot, police said, with hundreds fleeing the chaotic scene, many weeping as they carried their children. Eight people, including a 9-month-old, were injured.

The 40-year-old was stopped in the knifing attack at the Westfield Shopping Centre in Bondi Junction, which is in the city’s eastern suburbs, when a police inspector shot him after he turned and raised a knife, New South Wales Assistant Police Commissioner Anthony Cooke told reporters.

“They just said run, run, run — someone’s been stabbed,” one witness told ABC TV in Australia. ”(The attacker) was walking really calmly like he was having an ice cream in a park. And then he went up the escalators ... and probably within about a minute we heard three gunshots.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 13, 2024, 09:56:31 AM

Knife reform needed.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 13, 2024, 10:05:18 AM

it's not just an issue in the US of A

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2024, 10:12:20 AM

It is true that countries with much stricter gun control have much lower levels of homicide.  As oft noted, many Americans would like to emulate what they think Europe is like.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 13, 2024, 10:13:26 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 13, 2024, 10:05:18 AM

it's not just an issue in the US of A

Correct. People who want to kill will use any means to do so.

Guns
Cars
Knives
Pressure Cookers
Heavy blunt objects
And so on.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2024, 10:14:21 AM

US expects Iran to carry out direct attack on Israel, sources say, as Biden warns ‘don’t’ | CNN Politics (https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/12/politics/white-house-iran-threat-israel/index.html)

The US expects that Iran will carry out strikes against multiple targets inside Israel in the coming days and is prepared to help intercept any weapons launched at its ally, sources tell CNN, as the Biden administration is on high alert for what could be the eruption of a significantly volatile and unpredictable period in the Middle East.

President Joe Biden (https://www.cnn.com/politics/joe-biden) on Friday predicted that Iran’s attacks were coming “sooner than later” and sought to once again issue a stern public warning, saying that his message to Tehran was simply: “Don’t.”

The beginning of a state-on-state conflict between Iran and Israel would mark a serious escalation in the region – a scenario that the US has hoped to avoid since the start of the Israel-Hamas war (https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-04-12-24/index.html) in October.

As of late Friday, the US believed that Iranian proxies could also be involved in the forthcoming attacks, according to a senior administration official and a source familiar with the intelligence, and that targets would likely be both inside Israel and around the region. The US’ readiness to intercept weapons launched at Israel marked a clear indication of the level of ongoing cooperation between the two militaries.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 13, 2024, 10:26:19 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 13, 2024, 09:56:31 AM

Knife reform needed.

He killed 6 people.  How many more if he'd had a gun?  How many times more?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2024, 10:35:41 AM

Indeed, a gun generally affords an individual a greater opportunity to kill and maim more than most other weapons, I think this is accepted.

The question is what could be done about it.  Adopt European type restrictions?  I don't view that as practicable.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 13, 2024, 11:54:36 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 13, 2024, 10:26:19 AM

He killed 6 people.  How many more if he'd had a gun?  How many times more?

Depends on if he knew how shoot it, and what kind it was. A handgun generally takes no more than 6-8 bullets and is more difficult to shoot than a rifle. Getting a rifle into a mall is not as easy as a handgun, of course.

Most of these people do NOT know how to shoot.

I'm glad I DO know how.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 13, 2024, 11:55:20 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 13, 2024, 10:14:21 AM

US expects Iran to carry out direct attack on Israel, sources say, as Biden warns ‘don’t’ | CNN Politics (https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/12/politics/white-house-iran-threat-israel/index.html)

The US expects that Iran will carry out strikes against multiple targets inside Israel in the coming days and is prepared to help intercept any weapons launched at its ally, sources tell CNN, as the Biden administration is on high alert for what could be the eruption of a significantly volatile and unpredictable period in the Middle East.

President Joe Biden (https://www.cnn.com/politics/joe-biden) on Friday predicted that Iran’s attacks were coming “sooner than later” and sought to once again issue a stern public warning, saying that his message to Tehran was simply: “Don’t.”

The beginning of a state-on-state conflict between Iran and Israel would mark a serious escalation in the region – a scenario that the US has hoped to avoid since the start of the Israel-Hamas war (https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-04-12-24/index.html) in October.

As of late Friday, the US believed that Iranian proxies could also be involved in the forthcoming attacks, according to a senior administration official and a source familiar with the intelligence, and that targets would likely be both inside Israel and around the region. The US’ readiness to intercept weapons launched at Israel marked a clear indication of the level of ongoing cooperation between the two militaries.

I have a very bad feeling about this situation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2024, 12:01:06 PM

I don't have any feeling one way or the other, and obviously no inside knowledge or clever perceptions.  I do think it will be tough for Iran to attack Israel directly with any effectiveness, and they might realize such an attack would cause them more problems than it solved.  So, my own GUESS is they strike at some Israeli diplomatic facility somewhere, do some damage, claim victory, and quit.  Maybe that is more hope than reality.

But it would be a quid pro quo, mostly, give Iran cover, and then Israel would feel no special need to counter.

I read these accounts of some major Iranian missile strike on Israel, and I'm not sure that is likely, or feasible to much degree.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 13, 2024, 12:01:48 PM

Joe said, "don't"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 13, 2024, 12:03:01 PM

Could turn Iran into another Gaza

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2024, 12:10:09 PM

I keep looking at maps, and distances, and whatever known weapons each side may have.  It's about a thousand miles from Tehran to Tel Aviv, a distance that is greater than the effective range of aircraft on either side.  And you're looking at a transit of Iraq/Jordan/Saudi Arabia somehow.  This wouldn't be an issue for missiles in general, though the range is an issue along with payload.  Even a 1,000 kg warhead won't do all that much damage to a country.  Is either side likely to launch hundreds of them at the other?  Do WMDs come into play?  

(https://i.imgur.com/t1uxFiK.jpeg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 13, 2024, 12:10:58 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 13, 2024, 12:03:01 PM

Could turn Iran into another Gaza

And their neighbors wouldn't mind.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2024, 04:39:09 PM

So a drone attack?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 13, 2024, 05:51:42 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 13, 2024, 11:54:36 AM

Depends on if he knew how shoot it, and what kind it was. A handgun generally takes no more than 6-8 bullets and is more difficult to shoot than a rifle. Getting a rifle into a mall is not as easy as a handgun, of course.

Most of these people do NOT know how to shoot.

I'm glad I DO know how.

Avoids the question and makes it about yourself.
Awesome.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 13, 2024, 05:53:17 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 13, 2024, 04:39:09 PM

So a drone attack?

100+ drones/missiles in the "first wave" of attack.

This is MUCH better than crippling Iran.  Let them do whatever they want.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 13, 2024, 05:56:08 PM

Also, Iran is stupid.  US support of Israel is waning.....so they do something to reinvigorate our support for them.

Stupid on top of stupid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2024, 06:36:39 PM

Wouldn’t be prudent. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 14, 2024, 12:11:29 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 13, 2024, 11:55:20 AM

I have a very bad feeling about this situation.

so do I.

Netenyahu is a rat bastard lying scumbag punk thug ultra-right wing fascist wannabe dictator who has been poking and prodding and begging the US to go to war with Iran for 30 fcking years. He might've just pulled it off.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 14, 2024, 12:29:01 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 14, 2024, 12:11:29 AM

so do I.

Netenyahu is a rat bastard lying scumbag punk thug ultra-right wing fascist wannabe dictator who has been poking and prodding and begging the US to go to war with Iran for 30 fcking years. He might've just pulled it off.

After 9/11, we invaded 2 countries, one of which had nothing to do with the attack, and spent 20 years in each, ultimately changing nothing.
.
Israel suffered a similar attack on October 7, DURING A CEASEFIRE, and is doing half of what we did, at a much-smaller scale.  
.
Just some context.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2024, 06:48:17 AM

Maybe (?) Iran figured that mounting an inept but large attack would end this knowing nothing would get through.  They checked the box, and Israel checked theirs, something akin to what they did when the US offed Solemani.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 14, 2024, 07:25:49 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 13, 2024, 05:51:42 PM

Avoids the question and makes it about yourself.
Awesome.

I made it about me? That's what you gleaned from that post?

I'm going to assume you've never shot, because if you knew anything about it, you wouldn't have posed your "awesome" question in the first place.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2024, 07:30:44 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 13, 2024, 10:26:19 AM

He killed 6 people.  How many more if he'd had a gun?  How many times more?

It does depend quite a bit on type of gun and his proficiency in using it.  But, usually, a person with a gun can kill'wound more than a person with a knife.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2024, 07:33:43 AM

I channel surfed the news last night as we have one channel that has CNN/BBC/Fox News/MSNBC conviently on the same channel, one can switch between them easily.

They all spent most of the time with 'experts' speculating, as usual.  There was of course very little actual news, which it not surprising.

I do wonder if Iran knew this attack had little chance of doing much at all and hoped that would end it.  I hope this ends it as well, but fear it won't.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 14, 2024, 07:49:38 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 14, 2024, 07:30:44 AM

It does depend quite a bit on type of gun and his proficiency in using it.  But, usually, a person with a gun can kill'wound more than a person with a knife.

Only if they know how to use it. Plus, not all guns are not equal.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2024, 07:51:16 AM

Usually, a person with a gun can kill more people than a person with a knife.  That seems obvious to me, and is why folks carry guns more than knives.

There of course could be rare exceptions where an individual is highly skilled with a knife and doesn't know how to take the safety of or load the gun properly, if it has a safety.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 14, 2024, 07:54:19 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 14, 2024, 07:33:43 AM

I channel surfed the news last night as we have one channel that has CNN/BBC/Fox News/MSNBC conviently on the same channel, one can switch between them easily.

They all spent most of the time with 'experts' speculating, as usual.  There was of course very little actual news, which it not surprising.

I do wonder if Iran knew this attack had little chance of doing much at all and hoped that would end it.  I hope this ends it as well, but fear it won't.

I think they are in shock.

Israel can put an end to this if it wants to. They need air space - something I think Jordan and Iraq would grant.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 14, 2024, 08:00:34 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 14, 2024, 07:51:16 AM

Usually, a person with a gun can kill more people than a person with a knife.  That seems obvious to me, and is why folks carry guns more than knives.

There of course could be rare exceptions where an individual is highly skilled with a knife and doesn't know how to take the safety of or load the gun properly, if it has a safety.

This guy killed 6 - exactly what you could kill with most handguns.

Taking the time to change a magazine (assuming he/she had another one) would expose the shooter.

One thing to always pay attention to in a situation involving a shooting is how many have been shot. Keep count. Know when the shooter is vulnerable. Always know where the entries and exits are. Take nothing for granted.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2024, 08:10:10 AM

I think "most handguns" out there are semiautomatic with 10+ round magazines, but whatever.

10 Most Popular Handguns in America (refactortactical.com) (https://blog.refactortactical.com/blog/10-most-popular-handguns/)

Top Selling Pistols on Guns.com in 2020 :: Guns.com (https://www.guns.com/news/2020/12/29/top-selling-pistols-on-gunscom-in-2020)

This is based on purchases, not ownership.  Revolvers are fairly rare today.  I do have one, a five shot wheel.  It's kind of painful to shoot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 14, 2024, 08:29:55 AM

The 43 is probably the best for conceal out of that list. Lots of recoil on that gun, like most guns that are designed to concealed.

My bodyguard is painful to shoot, even after just 6 rounds. 

But, if you need more than 6 rounds to take out a target, you shouldn't be shooting.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2024, 08:32:23 AM

My 5 shooter can handle .357 and is "hammerless" and quite small.  I usually shoot +Ps at the range, if I'm at the range.  I've shot a few magnums loads and it isn't very nice.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2024, 08:39:12 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/kJ0XRiF.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 14, 2024, 08:46:42 AM

General George Custer must have been a scholar

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 14, 2024, 08:54:04 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 14, 2024, 08:00:34 AM

This guy killed 6 - exactly what you could kill with most handguns.

Taking the time to change a magazine (assuming he/she had another one) would expose the shooter.

One thing to always pay attention to in a situation involving a shooting is how many have been shot. Keep count. Know when the shooter is vulnerable. Always know where the entries and exits are. Take nothing for granted.

CHICAGO (AP) — Eight people were shot including a young girl who was killed in what Chicago police believe was gang-related violence on the city’s South Side on Saturday night.

The 7-year-old girl was shot in the head and died, while a 1-year-old boy and a 7-year-old boy were each shot multiple times and listed in critical condition, Chicago Police Department Deputy Chief Don Jerome said in a news briefing at the scene on a block of 52nd Street near Damen Avenue.

Police responding to a gunfire alert around 9 p.m. applied tourniquets and chest seals to victims, who also included adults between the ages of 19 and 40, Jerome said.

The victims, who were standing outside at a family gathering at the time of the shooting, were transported to area hospitals by the Chicago Fire Department.

The investigation was still in the preliminary stages but witness accounts described two possible shooters on foot, Jerome said.

“This was not a random act of violence. It was likely gang-related,” Jerome said. “Regardless of the motivation for this incident, three innocent children were struck tonight and one of them tragically succumbed to her wounds. The offenders’ actions, make no mistake, are horrific and unnaceptable in our city.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 14, 2024, 08:56:42 AM

So if they find them, they will be arrested and released. Perfect.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 14, 2024, 09:01:42 AM

stupid thugs with guns wound 8 and kill one

guy with knife kills 6

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2024, 09:13:06 AM

[color=rgba(13, 13, 13, 0.9)]According to the text of the bill, defendants can be denied pretrial release if a hearing finds that they meet any of the following criteria: (https://www.civicfed.org/iifs/blog/summary-provisions-illinois-house-bill-3653-criminal-justice-omnibus-bill)[/color]
[color=rgba(13, 13, 13, 0.9)]-The defendant is charged with a “forcible felony” that comes with a mandatory sentence of imprisonment without probation upon conviction, and that the release of that defendant would constitute a threat to any person or the community at large.[/color]
[color=rgba(13, 13, 13, 0.9)]“Forcible felonies” include “first degree murder, second degree murder, predatory criminal sexual assault, robbery, burglary, residential burglary, aggravated arson, arson, kidnapping, aggravated battery resulting in great bodily harm or permanent disability or disfigurement and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.”[/color]
[color=rgba(13, 13, 13, 0.9)]-If the defendant is charged with stalking or aggravated stalking, and their release would pose a threat to the community or to an individual.[/color]
[color=rgba(13, 13, 13, 0.9)]-If the defendant is charged with domestic battery or aggravated domestic battery, and their release would pose a threat to the community or an individual.[/color]
[color=rgba(13, 13, 13, 0.9)]-If the defendant is charged with a sex offense, and their release would pose a threat to the community or an individual.[/color]
[color=rgba(13, 13, 13, 0.9)]-If the defendant has a high likelihood of “willful flight to avoid prosecution” and is charged with a forcible felony.[/color]

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 14, 2024, 09:45:18 AM

LINCOLN, Neb. — Make no mistake, Saturday night is one of those rare occasions when Dan Whitney, better known as Larry the Cable Guy, won't be pulling for the bull riders.

"I'm rooting for Koolie," Whitney said Friday from his Lancaster County home.

That's Mr. Koolie to everyone else. To Whitney, his bull is known simply as Koolie, as in "he's a cool dude."

"You sit around and you just think of cool names, like Mr. Koolie," Whitney said. "Mr. Koolie is just a cool name."

And Mr. Koolie is one bad bull. Consider that Whitney's bull has appeared in 37 Professional Bull Rider events and there have been just two qualified rides in 47 attempts — giving him a 95.7% buck-off rate — and he has a current streak of 26 straight buck-offs.


"That's an amazing stat," said Whitney, an avid sports fan. "It's like Ronald Acuna stealing 73 bases in a season. It's really good. It's the top of the top."

On Saturday night, Whitney will pay $10,000 to anyone who can successfully ride Mr. Koolie at the Pendleton Whisky Velocity Tour event at Pinnacle Bank Arena.

"I don't think there's a cowboy out there that's going to get 10 grand because I don't think there's anybody who can ride him," Whitney said.

Still, that uncertainty, like Whitney himself, is good for the pro bull-riding tour, its commissioner and CEO says.

"We’re honored he’s part of the PBR family,” Sean Gleason said about Whitney in a written statement.

Whitney says he's hopeful people attend Saturday's event because pro bull riding is a sport worth watching and there are plenty of good rodeo athletes in Nebraska.

"It's something you should see," he said. "There are some very accomplished bull riders, and it's nice to showcase their abilities and get their names out there."

Whitney has always had a love for rodeo since growing up on an 80-acre farm in Pawnee City. After making it big with his comedy act, he began sponsoring rodeo athletes. He then took it a step further by forming the Git-R-Done rodeo team.

"I'd go to the National Finals Rodeo and I'd have two or three people competing," he said. "It was a lot of fun."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 14, 2024, 10:20:53 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/MK3Pk0O.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2024, 10:33:08 AM

I went back and redid my first book, found a ton of typos and errors, many of which CWS found and noted for me.

I think maybe I should finish a book and proof read it, and let it sit until I kind of forget about it, and then proof it again.

And I made $8.52 in royalties last month!  I think my kids bought my last book, I know one did.  Book 3 in that series is about to start I think.  i have some ideas.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2024, 11:07:49 AM

• Some analysts said that the attack was mostly performative. Michael Singh, a former senior director for Middle East affairs at the U.S. National Security Council, told The Wall Street Journal (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/a/zmITpKsb0qC8xdPOe2Js1Q~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRn_kjbP4Q6AWh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lndzai5jb20vbGl2ZWNvdmVyYWdlL2lzcmFlbC1pcmFuLXN0cmlrZXMtbGl2ZS1jb3ZlcmFnZS9jYXJkL2F0dGFja3Mtb24taXNyYWVsLWxhcmdlbHktcGVyZm9ybWF0aXZlLXNheXMtZm9ybWVyLXNlbmlvci11LXMtb2ZmaWNpYWwtTTBMaW00ODAwSEY2WlJMaTAyaXI_Y2FtcGFpZ25faWQ9OSZlbWM9ZWRpdF9ubl8yMDI0MDQxNCZpbnN0YW5jZV9pZD0xMjAxMTcmbmw9dGhlLW1vcm5pbmcmcmVnaV9pZD0xNTMzNjg5MTAmc2VnbWVudF9pZD0xNjM0MTgmdGU9MSZ1c2VyX2lkPThlNWQyYTJiNWU0OGE2OTY1NjE5MmNjM2FmMGE5MDBjVwNueXRCCmYQ28MbZlAEBIZSEWpjZG9vbTlAZ21haWwuY29tWAQAAAAD), that it was “a slow-moving, thoroughly telegraphed, and ultimately unsuccessful retaliation.”
• Other experts called the attack more significant. Ahron Bregman, an expert at King’s College in London, called it an “historic event.” It brought Iran’s long shadow war against Israel into the open (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/newsletter/GMMaS_WqZKkT44Cr8EXb6Q~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRn_kjbP0TraHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMjAyNC8wNC8xNC93b3JsZC9taWRkbGVlYXN0L2lyYW4tYXR0YWNrcy1pc3JhZWwtaGlzdG9yeS5odG1sP2NhbXBhaWduX2lkPTkmZW1jPWVkaXRfbm5fMjAyNDA0MTQmaW5zdGFuY2VfaWQ9MTIwMTE3Jm5sPXRoZS1tb3JuaW5nJnJlZ2lfaWQ9MTUzMzY4OTEwJnNlZ21lbnRfaWQ9MTYzNDE4JnRlPTEmdXNlcl9pZD04ZTVkMmEyYjVlNDhhNjk2NTYxOTJjYzNhZjBhOTAwY1cDbnl0QgpmENvDG2ZQBASGUhFqY2Rvb205QGdtYWlsLmNvbVgEAAAAAw~~). The two rivals have no direct channels of communication, which can lead to dangerous military miscalculations.
• One reason to believe Israel may respond: “Any normalization of direct strikes by Iran is intolerable to the Israeli public and leadership,” The Economist magazine wrote. Dana Stroul, the former top Middle East policy official at the Pentagon, said, “Given how significant this attack was, it is difficult to see how Israel cannot respond.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 14, 2024, 12:38:25 PM

Israel kicks this shits torm up by attacking Iran. Israel then acts horrified and shocked and vows revenge when Iran ultimately responds- ineffectively I might add. Believe nearly every drone or missile was shot down. Iran leadership was backed into a corner, they were always going to respond to Israeli aggression. It was inevitable. The question is how would they respond. 

The fact that Iran's strikes seem to have for the most part been neutralized hopefully that will be that, and they can call it a day, tit for tat.

Have zero faith in Biden admin however to reign in the ultra-right religious nutjob extremist fascists running Israel however. He's had zero success since he took office, that's not about to start happening now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 14, 2024, 01:07:49 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 14, 2024, 10:20:53 AM

[img width=343.996 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/MK3Pk0O.png[/img]

So basically, you were sold a country song.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 14, 2024, 01:11:03 PM

a country boy can survive

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 14, 2024, 01:11:18 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 14, 2024, 12:38:25 PM

Israel kicks this shits torm up by attacking Iran. Israel then acts horrified and shocked and vows revenge when Iran ultimately responds- ineffectively I might add. Believe nearly every drone or missile was shot down. Iran leadership was backed into a corner, they were always going to respond to Israeli aggression. It was inevitable. The question is how would they respond.

Kind of like how Israel was backed into a corner and was always going to respond to Hamas aggression, huh?

Only with that, because Hamas uses their own people as human shields, the only inevitability was a lot of dead Palestinians.....because of Hamas.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 14, 2024, 05:05:04 PM

Hamas actions are Iranian actions.  Iran started this portion of the conflict on October 7th when its proxy military organization went into Israel for a rape-and-murder festival.

The only thing new here is that Iran is finally acting openly rather than waging a shadow war through its proxies.  That is significant but it doesn't change the fact that Iran started it this time, back in October, using Hamas forces.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 14, 2024, 05:07:57 PM

This pisses me off.  ESPN has done it for about the past year or so - intermingling men's and women's scores.  This isn't feminism, it's stupid.  All it does is cause double-takes.
It's just invented stupidity.

(https://i.imgur.com/vwPChpN.jpeg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2024, 05:22:34 PM

The egg lobby in action. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 14, 2024, 07:52:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 14, 2024, 05:22:34 PM

The egg lobby in action.

Kind of.

Artificially limiting your food variety based on what the clock says is pretty stupid, too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2024, 07:57:29 PM

Maybe but I don’t do that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 14, 2024, 09:33:51 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 14, 2024, 07:52:03 PM

Kind of.

Artificially limiting your food variety based on what the clock says is pretty stupid, too.

Agree.  I eat eggs any time of day.  Why would I limit my egg intake to morning-time only?  Pure silliness.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 15, 2024, 06:35:58 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 14, 2024, 09:01:42 AM

stupid thugs with guns wound 8 and kill one

guy with knife kills 6

Good thing the thug doesn't know how to shoot.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2024, 08:04:28 AM

https://www.twz.com/this-is-what-the-b-52-will-look-like-with-its-new-rolls-royce-engines

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on April 15, 2024, 08:45:47 AM

IMO Iran acted stupidly with their ineffective broadside this past weekend.  It gave Israel the green light to do what needs to be done and shored up support for Israel in the US.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2024, 08:51:24 AM

I think it may have been brilliant, launch a large attack they should have known would be defended, claim victory, and hope Israel lets it go.  There wasn't really much else available to them but an attack they knew would largely fail.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 15, 2024, 09:12:15 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 15, 2024, 08:51:24 AM

I think it may have been brilliant, launch a large attack they should have known would be defended, claim victory, and hope Israel lets it go.  There wasn't really much else available to them but an attack they knew would largely fail.

I don't know if it's "brilliant" because I think it was really Iran's only option, but it probably served its purpose.  Sure everyone in the West knows how futile the attack was, but nobody in Iran is going to hear the Western news.

If nothing else they forced Israel to spend up to a $1 billion shooting down a bunch of $3,000 drones and a handful of missiles.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2024, 09:15:02 AM

I'd guess most drones were taken out by fighters with guns.  And, it was an excellent "system test".  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 15, 2024, 09:47:19 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 15, 2024, 09:15:02 AM

I'd guess most drones were taken out by fighters with guns.  And, it was an excellent "system test". 

Yup, I read an article that said fighters were mostly taking out the drones.

Made me wonder though, how do they do it?  Shouldn't fighter jets be a lot faster than these drones?  Do they just have to turn around a lot and make multiple runs?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2024, 09:54:09 AM

A fighter can fly pretty slowly before stall speed becomes a factor.  They can easily manage under 200 knots, even slower in special conditions.  A drone should be "jet powered" and making 400-500 knots.  The fighter would be vectored in by an AWACS and then use its own radar to take it out with guns or perhaps a Sidewinder.

Some pilots got to paint new targets on their aircraft.  

Folks might think a supersonic fighter like an F-16 zooms around at 1,000 mph all the time, but it doesn't, and can't, for long.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 15, 2024, 09:58:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 15, 2024, 09:54:09 AM

A fighter can fly pretty slowly before stall speed becomes a factor.  They can easily manage under 200 knots, even slower in special conditions.  A drone should be "jet powered" and making 400-500 knots.  The fighter would be vectored in by an AWACS and then use its own radar to take it out with guns or perhaps a Sidewinder.

Some pilots got to paint new targets on their aircraft. 

Folks might think a supersonic fighter like an F-16 zooms around at 1,000 mph all the time, but it doesn't, and can't, for long.

Gracias.  I figured you'd be able to answer my question.

Saw some video footage from (allegedly) Israeli fighters taking out drones, they used guns but also a missile at one point.  But the missile might have been used against another missile, it was tough to tell from the video.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2024, 10:02:35 AM

There were drones, which can be hardly different from cruise missiles, and then ballistic missiles.  The US drones are often used for reconnassaince but some have their own missiles or bombs that can be used.  These drones take off and return to base.  They are just unpiloted planes in effect.

The media started talking about "drones" in the Ukrainian conflict, and supposedly Iran was sending theirs to Russia for use.  The term, to me, is confusing.  If they are just one way guided bombs, I'd call them cruise missiles.  This is a "cruise missile".

(https://i.imgur.com/OaIllHG.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2024, 10:04:04 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/FKqSFz9.png)

This is stated to be Iranian drones, they look to me like cruise missiles, though perhaps they lack the ultra low terrain following of some cruise missiles.  These would use rocket motors to get up to speed and then a simple jet engine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2024, 10:05:33 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/hyysU07.png)

The main reason these are effective is they can fly at very very low altitude and are difficult to pick up from all the ground clutter.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 15, 2024, 10:07:55 AM

Yeah I couldn't tell you.  The Shahed drones that Iran is sending to Russia look more like small airplanes and less like a traditional "missile" but the terminology could certainly be interchangeable in some cases, it seems.

This is one of the original ones to be seen but apparently they're making jet-powered ones now, too.  

(https://i.imgur.com/CKJ42Pk.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 15, 2024, 10:11:35 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 15, 2024, 10:04:04 AM

[img width=500 height=325.994]https://i.imgur.com/FKqSFz9.png[/img]

This is stated to be Iranian drones, they look to me like cruise missiles, though perhaps they lack the ultra low terrain following of some cruise missiles.  These would use rocket motors to get up to speed and then a simple jet engine.

The Iranian drones that Russia has been using in Ukraine to date, are like the ones I posted, and not like these.  They're "kamikaze" drones or "suicide drones" that are more airplane-like.

That's not to say that the ones above haven't been used, or won't be used, but in Ukraine they now have plenty of broken/recovered Shaheds to look at, and determine what's being used against them.   Allegedly they're even reverse-engineering them and starting up manufacturing of their own.


(https://i.imgur.com/xHPFiNt.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2024, 10:12:21 AM

115 mph is of course pretty slow and could be something of a problem for an F-16.  I can see calling anything with a propeller a drone.  Interestingly, maybe, the F-35 B model can hover in "flight" and is VSTOL capable.

(https://i.imgur.com/k0cWQMG.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 15, 2024, 10:50:04 AM

drone - the new buzz word/term

obviously many different types

when I think of drones, I think of the little things with helicopter type blades that take pictures/video of golf courses and things

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on April 15, 2024, 11:16:15 AM

Lots of things in Iran to blow up from the Israeli perspective.  Facilities related to Iran's nuclear weapons program would probably be a priority.  Kind of hoping Israel hits Iran's petroleum production and refining facilities to give the Biden administration the middle finger more than anything else. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2024, 11:18:28 AM

Their nuke facilities apparently are mostly hardened and underground, not readily damaged with explosives.

They could damage oil facilities of course, and even take out tankers.  Israel has four submarines apparently.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 15, 2024, 11:41:12 AM

gas prices are high enuff

IMO

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 15, 2024, 12:19:44 PM

Not sure if I posted this here.

Pretty small home buying pool I'd imagine. Billionaire's only.

EDIT to add link, which is helpful.

Port Royal compound on market for record $295M - Gulfshore Business (https://www.gulfshorebusiness.com/port-royal-compound-on-market-for-record-295m/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 15, 2024, 01:35:23 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 15, 2024, 12:19:44 PM

Not sure if I posted this here.

Pretty small home buying pool I'd imagine. Billionaire's only.

EDIT to add link, which is helpful.

Port Royal compound on market for record $295M - Gulfshore Business (https://www.gulfshorebusiness.com/port-royal-compound-on-market-for-record-295m/)

I was wondering for a second about the lack of a link...

...and in that second as I realized I am NOT a billionaire, I figured I'd just let it be. :57:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 15, 2024, 01:46:47 PM

OrangeAfro thinks some guys here are rich

everything is relative and each of us has our own definitions

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 15, 2024, 01:48:35 PM

Rich does not mean wealthy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2024, 01:58:41 PM

A while back, I think most here agreed that a net worth of about $5 mil meant one was pretty wealthy.  It depends a lot on one's point in life of course.  A 30 year old making $250 K a year is doing quite well but his net worth might be quite small.

The old dream was to own your home by retirement age, sell it for a nice nest egg, buy something in FL and live on pension/SS and play golf.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 15, 2024, 02:01:13 PM

That Port Royal place looks nice.  Think I'll buy it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 15, 2024, 02:19:32 PM

https://modernrealestateco.com/510-s-64th-road?utm_source=social_studio&cpclid=17743950187069440&isBorrow=false&agentId=511389871607330&fbclid=IwAR1-I1xMz_mDfs2rlv2eLPcGuEKBywWSTVewSxEiebLP-ALse81IGfu5NG0_aem_AcbEFU1pEElo9rzMAY_zVfIakfinErb1UuGMbn6cO0TjPKwbFH2XvRo-Acn4ws3Z4SMGoPHGn9oqJw4NzNVq3gvd&isBot=false&isSpeedUA=false (https://modernrealestateco.com/510-s-64th-road?utm_source=social_studio&cpclid=17743950187069440&isBorrow=false&agentId=511389871607330&fbclid=IwAR1-I1xMz_mDfs2rlv2eLPcGuEKBywWSTVewSxEiebLP-ALse81IGfu5NG0_aem_AcbEFU1pEElo9rzMAY_zVfIakfinErb1UuGMbn6cO0TjPKwbFH2XvRo-Acn4ws3Z4SMGoPHGn9oqJw4NzNVq3gvd&isBot=false&isSpeedUA=false)

510 S 64th Road, Nebraska City, NE 68410 just hit the market!

Take a look at this awesome space: https://modernrealestateco.com/d8qyfseb

$330,000

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2024, 02:30:12 PM

Looks nice, does it get cold there?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 15, 2024, 02:39:33 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 13, 2024, 10:26:19 AM

He killed 6 people.  How many more if he'd had a gun?  How many times more?

Unless others were carrying guns also in which case there are more people able to shoot back. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 15, 2024, 02:50:41 PM

The hypotheticals are just that, IF he had a gun, yes, more might have been killed.  If someone else present had a gun, maybe fewer would have been killed.

But we live in a country where firearms are prevalent, and that isn't going to change no matter the hypotheticals.  I noticed the Administration is trying to close the so called gun show loophole, which basically is a fabrication that doesn't exist, but it SOUNDS good, to folks who never attended a gun show.

The new rules are so vague nobody will pay much attention to them, much less of course criminals.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 15, 2024, 03:02:08 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 15, 2024, 02:50:41 PM

The hypotheticals are just that, IF he had a gun, yes, more might have been killed.  If someone else present had a gun, maybe fewer would have been killed.

But we live in a country where firearms are prevalent, and that isn't going to change no matter the hypotheticals.  I noticed the Administration is trying to close the so called gun show loophole, which basically is a fabrication that doesn't exist, but it SOUNDS good, to folks who never attended a gun show.

The new rules are so vague nobody will pay much attention to them, much less of course criminals.

Exactly. Having been to a few gun shows, I can say that there is no "gun show" loophole. Everyone selling guns at a gun show follow the same laws as they do elsewhere. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 15, 2024, 04:49:39 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/WnQ6uv7.jpeg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 15, 2024, 04:49:53 PM

oops, wrong thread

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 15, 2024, 04:50:41 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 15, 2024, 04:49:53 PM

oops, wrong thread

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/959/755/391.gif)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 15, 2024, 05:11:24 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 15, 2024, 04:49:53 PM

oops, wrong thread

The discussion was about weapons and how to use them.  It fits.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on April 15, 2024, 09:53:20 PM

Damn. College season just ended and the WNBA just had their draft. That was fast. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 16, 2024, 12:04:44 AM

Quote from: Gigem on April 15, 2024, 09:53:20 PM

Damn. College season just ended and the WNBA just had their draft. That was fast.

WNBA plays over the summer, right?

I actually think the college stars are marketed better than the WNBA stars.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 16, 2024, 01:35:32 AM

I'm not sure you know what the word "stars" means....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 16, 2024, 07:19:27 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on April 15, 2024, 11:16:15 AM

 Kind of hoping Israel hits Iran's petroleum production and refining facilities to give the Biden administration the middle finger more than anything else.

That would be another reason for the Oil Barons to spike the prices however irrelevent it is to the US market

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2024, 07:38:56 AM

If the oil barons could spike prices at will, why wouldn't they be doing it all the time?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2024, 09:01:44 AM

they are doing it all the time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 16, 2024, 09:21:43 AM

Quote from: ELA on April 16, 2024, 12:04:44 AM

WNBA plays over the summer, right?

I actually think the college stars are marketed better than the WNBA stars.

They play over the summer, but they have to figure out how to have their playoffs finished by the Thursday after Labor Day. Right now their playoffs are in October, and they get buried.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2024, 10:21:06 AM

The price of oil, and gasoline, goes up and down routinely.  Why would it ever go down?  The price of gasoline today is very much in line with the prices over the past 50 years adjusted for inflation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2024, 10:21:24 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 16, 2024, 01:35:32 AM

I'm not sure you know what the word "stars" means....

What do you think it means?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 16, 2024, 10:27:07 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2024, 10:21:06 AM

The price of oil, and gasoline, goes up and down routinely.  Why would it ever go down?  The price of gasoline today is very much in line with the prices over the past 50 years adjusted for inflation.

thats just not true


https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=emm_epm0_pte_nus_dpg&f=m

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2024, 10:36:31 AM

Did you somehow miss the "adjusted for inflation" part?

(https://i.imgur.com/5jHra1S.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2024, 10:37:20 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/CWgFWCE.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2024, 10:44:10 AM

I'd guess the only reason gas isn't $10/gallon or more is the fear of government regulation such as other utilities

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2024, 10:57:15 AM

No, the primary reason is oil is a global market subject to global forces, and OPEC+ is the larger player in that.  Their aim is to adjust production to match demand as well as they can to support prices, as well as they can.  And they do a so so job of it.

If some "oil baron" could bump prices artificially, I'm sure they would, but they can't.  If say Exxon decides to charge more for refined products, other companies may decide it's a change to take more market share.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2024, 11:10:45 AM

no Collusion by refining companies?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 16, 2024, 11:11:41 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 14, 2024, 01:11:18 PM

Kind of like how Israel was backed into a corner and was always going to respond to Hamas aggression, huh?

Only with that, because Hamas uses their own people as human shields, the only inevitability was a lot of dead Palestinians.....because of Hamas. 

what you just said is not only fantastically stupid, you're comparing apples to oranges. if you want to get real about it- the creation of Hamas was a direct response to Israeli occupation and aggression. Israel forced elections in Gaza in 2006, tried obstructing said elections to make sure their preferred candidates won, Hamas won said election anyway and Israel said "nope, you're not allowed to vote for them, so we're going to blockade and lay siege to your land" and they have turned Gaza into an open air prison ever since.

The Israeli government under Netanyahu has funded Hamas to the tune of billions of dollars, and has for decades. Netanyahu has used Hamas to split the West Bank and Gaza and to ensure there will never be a two state solution.

Spare me the bullsh*t about Hamas using their own people as human shields. Israel targets civilians for mass slaughter, it's part of their policy. They do not care about "collateral damage" at all. They average Israeli does not view Palestinians as human beings. They call them animals and make fun of them on TikTok/Instagram.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 16, 2024, 11:11:47 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 14, 2024, 05:05:04 PM

Hamas actions are Iranian actions.  Iran started this portion of the conflict on October 7th when its proxy military organization went into Israel for a rape-and-murder festival.

The only thing new here is that Iran is finally acting openly rather than waging a shadow war through its proxies.  That is significant but it doesn't change the fact that Iran started it this time, back in October, using Hamas forces.

Hamas actions are not Iranian actions. That is just blatantly incorrect and false. Hamas and Iran have had many spats- they are not as closely linked as you just implied they were. Hamas = Sunni Arabs, Iranians = Shia Persians. They aren't exactly BFF's, there are serious tensions there and there continues to be a major riff between Hamas leadership and Iran over Iran's full-stop backing of Assad (Hamas strongly supports the Sunni overthrow of Assad) in Syria. It's more of the friend of my enemy is my friend type of situation. 

And really, that is all besides the point. EVEN if Hamas were Iranian proxies to the level you just implied (they aren't) - it was beyond reckless for Israel to hit directly at Iran at their embassy compound in Damascus. Iran was always going to have to respond to save face, and if Israel retaliates to something THE ISRAELIS STARTED- and an attack from Iran that by the way clearly looks to me like Iranian leadership intended to fail (Iran gave 72 hr warning of a strike- who does this) - it could cause a much greater war to break out that the US could get dragged into.

And by your own above reasoning, that means the Russians should just go ahead and attack the US and start WWIII, since Ukraine is effectively a colony of the United States- a complete proxy wholly dependent on the United States giving it military intelligence, cash, loans, and shitloads of weapons. Because whatever support Iran has given Hamas (and the evidence for that is minimal and full of contradictions) - US has given Ukraine 10000000000000x fold.

Said it before and I'll say it again, Netanyahu should've just drone striked himself. It was HIS DECISION to give Hamas upwards of a billion dollars over the years. Netanyahu has funded Hamas 10x compared to whatever scraps Iran has ever given them. Netanyahu and people close to him openly admit they've used Hamas to split the Palestinians and to prevent a two state solution from ever happening.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 16, 2024, 11:12:28 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on April 15, 2024, 08:45:47 AM

IMO Iran acted stupidly with their ineffective broadside this past weekend.  It gave Israel the green light to do what needs to be done and shored up support for Israel in the US.

yeah, no. US does not have the stomach nor capability to launch a full scale invasion of Iran. US is not going to war with Iran for Israel. Just isn't going to happen. Support for Israel in the US is declining rapidly. Never seen anything like it before in my life. And it's ABOUT GOD DAMN TIME. 

Israel does not = the United States of America. The United States of America's vital global strategic interests does not = Israel's. The United States of America's national security does not = Israel's. 

Israel is a drain on the United States of America. It's about god damn time we remove that parasitic worm.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 16, 2024, 11:13:22 AM

Quote from: utee94 on April 15, 2024, 09:12:15 AM

I don't know if it's "brilliant" because I think it was really Iran's only option, but it probably served its purpose.  Sure everyone in the West knows how futile the attack was, but nobody in Iran is going to hear the Western news.

If nothing else they forced the United States to spend up to a $1 billion shooting down a bunch of $3,000 drones and a handful of missiles.

FIFY

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 16, 2024, 11:15:57 AM

Quote from: Temp430 on April 15, 2024, 11:16:15 AM

Lots of things in Iran to blow up from the Israeli perspective.  Facilities related to Iran's nuclear weapons program would probably be a priority.  Kind of hoping Israel hits Iran's petroleum production and refining facilities to give the Biden administration the middle finger more than anything else.

What are you even saying here? Wtf? 

The Israeli's have given Biden the middle finger at every turn, and he's done nothing to reign them in and is complicit in a genocide. Not sure what you're going on about here. 

Iran is one of the worlds largest oil producers. Do you really want to pay even more for gas and everything else? cause gas prices inflate = price of everything inflates. yeah, I hate Biden as much as the next guy, but no thanks. Americans are already having a tough enough time to pay for sh*t as is. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 16, 2024, 11:17:05 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 15, 2024, 11:41:12 AM

gas prices are high enuff

IMO

this. lol. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2024, 11:29:34 AM

I'd guess most of the drones and cruise missiles were shot down with cannon, maybe some with Sidewinders.

The ballistic missiles would have required Aegis or equivalents from the Israelis.

As I noted, it was a useful systems test.

The US produces over 4.5 times as much oil as does Iran.  I think most of Iran's oil ends up in China and India.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 16, 2024, 11:38:18 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2024, 11:29:34 AM

I'd guess most of the drones and cruise missiles were shot down with cannon, maybe some with Sidewinders.

The ballistic missiles would have required Aegis or equivalents from the Israelis.

As I noted, it was a useful systems test.

The US produces over 4.5 times as much oil as does Iran.  I think most of Iran's oil ends up in China and India.

the US shot down the vast majority of those ballistic missiles and drones- not Israel- and Iran gave 72 hour notice that a strike was imminent. if they really wanted to strike successfully- they wouldn't have announced sh*t and just done it.

the price of oil is dictated upon a world wide market of supply and demand. Iran is the 3rd largest producer of oil in OPEC- the major player and market mover. Doesn't really matter if their oil ends up in the West (it doesn't, sanctions) - the price of oil- and in turn the price of everything else- will go up- if their oil producing capacity is destroyed and taken offline. will remove a chunk of global supply, and global demand ain't going anywhere- which will just cause a chain reaction to move prices upwards. China and India will still need to import shitloads of oil, and less oil for them to buy means more competition for the oil that's left- and prices of everything will go up.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2024, 11:41:50 AM

I have not seen any breakdown as to how many of the incoming were shot down by the US versus Israel. 

My GUESS would be Israel would have shot down the majority since they were the target and have a competent air force and antimissile capability.

Israel Iran conflict: US shot down most Iranian missiles and drones, not Israel - India Today (https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/israel-iran-conflict-majority-of-missiles-drones-shot-down-united-states-2527692-2024-04-16)

My guess appears to be incorrect.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2024, 11:48:03 AM

What was in wave of Iranian attacks and how were they thwarted? (bbc.com) (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68811273)

Of the 120 ballistic missiles fired by Iran, about half of them failed on launch or crashed mid-flight, one of the officials told CBS.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 16, 2024, 11:48:46 AM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 16, 2024, 11:11:47 AM

EVEN if Hamas were Iranian proxies to the level you just implied (they aren't) -

Sure they are.  Having ideological differences is one of the problems of using a private militia rather than a state military, but those problems go away when united against a common enemy.  Iran helped organize the October 7th massacre and Hamas enacted it.  Iran also uses Hezbollah and a dozen other proxies to help wage its wars. 

Syria is an Iranian ally and allows Iran to use Syria as a major hub for enabling its missions in Israel.

None of this is new.

Note: I'm not saying the US should become any more engaged in this conflict than we already are, and I see reasonable cause to diminish our activities there.  I'm just pointing out that neither Israel nor Iran and its numerous allies and proxies are innocent in this.  Both have been bad actors and it's silly and naive to white-knight for one over the other.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2024, 12:49:58 PM

When gun violence in America is discussed, people typically think about mass shootings, homicides or even domestic violence. But, in fact, the majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides.

In 2023, more than 42,967 people died from gun related injuries. Over half of those deaths were suicides.


Adam Garber, executive director of CeaseFirePA, a research group that advocates for stricter gun laws, says big cities have typically had the highest gun death rates. But that trend has started to shift. Last year, York, a small city in Pennsylvania, had a higher per capita gun death rate than Philadelphia, Garber said.

"It is really everywhere right now," Garber said.

Every year, more than 900 people in Pennsylvania die by gun suicides and 48 are wounded by gun suicide attempts. Suicides make up the majority of gun deaths in Pennsylvania.


https://www.npr.org/2024/04/16/1243924108/gun-violence-suicide-united-states (https://www.npr.org/2024/04/16/1243924108/gun-violence-suicide-united-states)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2024, 12:57:55 PM

Groups like Hamas/Hezbollah and the Houtis might not be strictly controlled by the Iranians, but they are enabled by them and have obvious common cause.  I don't know if Iran "orders them around", I doubt it, they might make suggestions of course.

Historically, Arabs and Persians don't get along, don't like each other, view the other with considerable disdain and suspicion.  The enemy of my enemy ...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 16, 2024, 01:04:35 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2024, 12:57:55 PM

Groups like Hamas/Hezbollah and the Houtis might not be strictly controlled by the Iranians, but they are enabled by them and have obvious common cause.  I don't know if Iran "orders them around", I doubt it, they might make suggestions of course.

Historically, Arabs and Persians don't get along, don't like each other, view the other with considerable disdain and suspicion.  The enemy of my enemy ...

Iran provides planning and operational/logistical support for missions.  They would never do this for missions they aren't aligned with.

Again, this is nothing new.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 16, 2024, 01:11:41 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 16, 2024, 11:48:46 AM

Sure they are.  Having ideological differences is one of the problems of using a private militia rather than a state military, but those problems go away when united against a common enemy.  Iran helped organize the October 7th massacre and Hamas enacted it.  Iran also uses Hezbollah and a dozen other proxies to help wage its wars. 

Syria is an Iranian ally and allows Iran to use Syria as a major hub for enabling its missions in Israel.

None of this is new.

Note: I'm not saying the US should become any more engaged in this conflict than we already are, and I see reasonable cause to diminish our activities there.  I'm just pointing out that neither Israel nor Iran and its numerous allies and proxies are innocent in this.  Both have been bad actors and it's silly and naive to white-knight for one over the other.

To be clear, I am not white-knighting one or the other. The theocratic lunatics that control Iran are an abomination. Netanyahu is a corrupt fascist lunatic wannabe dictator whose grip on power depends on the continuation of war and on a coalition with the Shas party, an ultra-right wing religious party that would love to wipe out every Muslim on earth if it could. They are basically Jewish Nazis. And Netanyahu is in bed with them. Both countries are bad actors and both of them f*cking suck. And neither are worth American treasure and for damn sure are not worth a drop of American blood.

US should cut the cord already and stop giving political cover for Israeli atrocities at the UN by vetoing every single resolution, condemnation, or ceasefire put forth and tell Israel they are on their own. And if they want weapons we can SELL THEM TO THEM, not give them to them for free at the expense of the American tax payer, and those weapons sales absolutely should have conditions. Use them to conduct yourself in accordance with international law or we aren't selling you them anymore.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 16, 2024, 02:07:14 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 16, 2024, 11:11:47 AM

Hamas actions are not Iranian actions. That is just blatantly incorrect and false. Hamas and Iran have had many spats- they are not as closely linked as you just implied they were. Hamas = Sunni Arabs, Iranians = Shia Persians. They aren't exactly BFF's

You forget the old maxim - "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". This was certainly true with emerging World War II Powers, the USA/USSR. Not sure if it was a joint effort with the two in October. But whoever should have let sleeping dogs lie.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2024, 02:11:28 PM

Not only did the USA/USSR pair up to fight Germany, Stalin paired up with Hitler in 1939 as well (before AHBL).  I read somewhere that German got more raw materials and support from the Soviet Union before the invasion than after.  Stalin was content to sit back and watch the western powers destroy each other.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2024, 02:11:52 PM

Current efforts to manage plastic pollution are falling far short. Globally, less than 10% of plastic is recycled, and 32% of plastic packaging escapes collection systems.

That’s why all eyes will turn towards Ottawa, Canada this month as an intergovernmental meeting known as INC-4 convenes in hopes of advancing a legally binding global agreement to end plastic pollution. Time is ticking: Few countries have any goals to limit or reduce plastic waste, reinforcing the urgency for a more rigorous and practical approach.

Dow, the world’s third-largest plastics producer, enthusiastically supports a solution that will eliminate plastic pollution from our planet by creating a socially inclusive, circular economy for plastics that recognizes the vital role these materials play in ensuring a low-carbon future. It’s an audacious yet achievable goal. The agreement being worked out could be an incredible catalyst for change if designed well. To be effective, it will need to drive innovation, promote environmentally sound recycling, and build an inclusive financial model to enable a circular ecosystem.

The first priority is driving innovation through design. Using plastics sustainably requires making them with circularity in mind from the beginning. We must design more high-performance plastics that use fewer raw materials while maximizing durability, reusability, and recyclability. Countries can help by promoting smarter design standards and setting recycled content requirements so that waste can be more easily sorted, recycled, and put back into use.


https://fortune.com/2024/04/16/dow-ceo-company-major-plastic-producer-end-plastic-pollution-leadership-environment/ (https://fortune.com/2024/04/16/dow-ceo-company-major-plastic-producer-end-plastic-pollution-leadership-environment/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2024, 02:17:10 PM

I wonder what "legally binding" could mean.

The first problem with plastic recycling is separation (generally after use).  Some mass of mixed plastic types is really a mess.  You can't separate it by type, and you can only recycle usefully if its separated.  Given a mass of nearly pure PE or PP or PET, recycling is pretty easy.

One possibility is to unzip the polymer chains into the constituent original parts and go from there, but it takes energy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 16, 2024, 02:20:15 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2024, 02:17:10 PM

I wonder what "legally binding" could mean.

The first problem with plastic recycling is separation (generally after use).  Some mass of mixed plastic types is really a mess.  You can't separate it by type, and you can only recycle usefully if its separated.  Given a mass of nearly pure PE or PP or PET, recycling is pretty easy.

One possibility is to unzip the polymer chains into the constituent original parts and go from there, but it takes energy.

It's a red line, man.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2024, 02:21:23 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 16, 2024, 02:20:15 PM

It's a red line, man.

"Don't" ....

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2024, 02:26:08 PM

What would be the possible negatives associated with a significant withdrawal from the world by the USA?  I'm not proposing this, I'm pondering it, but imagine the following happened, what would be some downsides?

1.  Withdrawal from every military alliance in which the US participates, including NATO.
2.  Withdrawal of troops based in South Korea/Okinawa, plus Europe/ME/wherever.
3.  Cut military budget by "half".  Maybe retain 10 AC carriers to be based on US territory, the nuclear "deterrent", subs,  smaller Army and Marine Corps and Air Force.
4.  Cut foreign aid to near zero.
5.  Withdraw from the UN, or perhaps remain for show, but don't pay the bills.  Maybe ask them to move out of NYC.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 16, 2024, 02:43:03 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2024, 02:26:08 PM

What would be the possible negatives associated with a significant withdrawal from the world by the USA?  I'm not proposing this, I'm pondering it, but imagine the following happened, what would be some downsides?

1.  Withdrawal from every military alliance in which the US participates, including NATO.
2.  Withdrawal of troops based in South Korea/Okinawa, plus Europe/ME/wherever.
3.  Cut military budget by "half".  Maybe retain 10 AC carriers to be based on US territory, the nuclear "deterrent", subs,  smaller Army and Marine Corps and Air Force.
4.  Cut foreign aid to near zero.
5.  Withdraw from the UN, or perhaps remain for show, but don't pay the bills.  Maybe ask them to move out of NYC.

Make sure you know Mandarin.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2024, 03:05:52 PM

was hoping to watch some Husker baseball this evening

Big Ten Network plus

(https://i.imgur.com/aW8o1BG.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2024, 03:12:25 PM

The Lesser of Two Weevils - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4PzpxOj5Cc)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 16, 2024, 03:17:17 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/nF3L3tA.jpeg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 16, 2024, 03:19:10 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2024, 02:26:08 PM

What would be the possible negatives associated with a significant withdrawal from the world by the USA?  I'm not proposing this, I'm pondering it, but imagine the following happened, what would be some downsides?

1.  Withdrawal from every military alliance in which the US participates, including NATO.
2.  Withdrawal of troops based in South Korea/Okinawa, plus Europe/ME/wherever.
3.  Cut military budget by "half".  Maybe retain 10 AC carriers to be based on US territory, the nuclear "deterrent", subs,  smaller Army and Marine Corps and Air Force.
4.  Cut foreign aid to near zero.
5.  Withdraw from the UN, or perhaps remain for show, but don't pay the bills.  Maybe ask them to move out of NYC.

The US government did this after the end of World War I. It ended up with another full-blown shooting war on the Continent 18 years later.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on April 16, 2024, 03:59:35 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 16, 2024, 02:11:52 PM

Current efforts to manage plastic pollution are falling far short. Globally, less than 10% of plastic is recycled, and 32% of plastic packaging escapes collection systems.

That’s why all eyes will turn towards Ottawa, Canada this month as an intergovernmental meeting known as INC-4 convenes in hopes of advancing a legally binding global agreement to end plastic pollution. Time is ticking: Few countries have any goals to limit or reduce plastic waste, reinforcing the urgency for a more rigorous and practical approach.

Dow, the world’s third-largest plastics producer, enthusiastically supports a solution that will eliminate plastic pollution from our planet by creating a socially inclusive, circular economy for plastics that recognizes the vital role these materials play in ensuring a low-carbon future. It’s an audacious yet achievable goal. The agreement being worked out could be an incredible catalyst for change if designed well. To be effective, it will need to drive innovation, promote environmentally sound recycling, and build an inclusive financial model to enable a circular ecosystem.

The first priority is driving innovation through design. Using plastics sustainably requires making them with circularity in mind from the beginning. We must design more high-performance plastics that use fewer raw materials while maximizing durability, reusability, and recyclability. Countries can help by promoting smarter design standards and setting recycled content requirements so that waste can be more easily sorted, recycled, and put back into use.


https://fortune.com/2024/04/16/dow-ceo-company-major-plastic-producer-end-plastic-pollution-leadership-environment/ (https://fortune.com/2024/04/16/dow-ceo-company-major-plastic-producer-end-plastic-pollution-leadership-environment/)

I work for one of the companies mentioned. 
My take…lots of buzzwords. Little action. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 16, 2024, 06:03:47 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 16, 2024, 02:26:08 PM

What would be the possible negatives associated with a significant withdrawal from the world by the USA?  I'm not proposing this, I'm pondering it, but imagine the following happened, what would be some downsides?

1.  Withdrawal from every military alliance in which the US participates, including NATO.
2.  Withdrawal of troops based in South Korea/Okinawa, plus Europe/ME/wherever.
3.  Cut military budget by "half".  Maybe retain 10 AC carriers to be based on US territory, the nuclear "deterrent", subs,  smaller Army and Marine Corps and Air Force.
4.  Cut foreign aid to near zero.
5.  Withdraw from the UN, or perhaps remain for show, but don't pay the bills.  Maybe ask them to move out of NYC.

#4 is where I would stop, to be honest.

1. A complete withdrawal from NATO is not in the cards at the moment. Putin would immediately act to put the Soviet band back together. It would be bloody in the Baltics.

2. Removal of troops from the Pacific would encourage China to take Taiwan, and it won't stop there. Taiwan is extremely important for the US, which is an unfortunate threat to our national security. South Korea is the same.

3. I don't know how you go about cutting the budget. There are already issues with the forces getting smaller. Gen Z is not buying in.

5. I'd pull back on the funding. And yes, tell them to move it to Geneva. The UN building can be a home for migrants that way.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2024, 06:45:48 PM

How To Tell Whether You’re Rich
Upper class: The top 20% of earners, with household incomes of $149,132 or more.
What sets the rich apart is that they aren’t worrying about whether they can afford a vacation, Van Alstyne said, they’re deciding on where to purchase a vacation home and can vacation in exotic locations for extended periods of time.

“Making ends meet and having conversations regarding weekly, monthly and annual lifestyle impacts isn’t a concern for the rich,” he said.


https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/net-worth-for-baby-boomers%3A-how-to-tell-whether-youre-poor-middle-class-upper-middle-class (https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/net-worth-for-baby-boomers%3A-how-to-tell-whether-youre-poor-middle-class-upper-middle-class)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 16, 2024, 07:10:19 PM

Ah, damn.  Some of you ARE rich!

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 16, 2024, 07:13:02 PM

Yeah, I'm now trying to figure out where to purchase a vacation home.

I mean, I rent my current house, so I don't actually own a home. But a vacation home sounds fun!

And I mean, my wife and I work and so we don't actually have "extended periods of time" to spend in exotic locales, OR the vacation home we don't own. 

But why let any of that stop me? The web site says I'm rich, so I need a vacation home! 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2024, 08:06:01 PM

is nasdaq.com right leaning or left leaning?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 16, 2024, 08:54:57 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 16, 2024, 08:06:01 PM

is nasdaq.com right leaning or left leaning?

Shouldn't it be like both parties:  money-leaning?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2024, 08:57:12 PM

wonder what they refer to as the top 10%

I'd probably go with upper middle for the top 20% and rich for the top 10

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 16, 2024, 08:59:54 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 16, 2024, 08:06:01 PM

is nasdaq.com right leaning or left leaning?

Doesn't matter. Vapid useless content that doesn't mean anything is not necessarily ideological. 

I'd say it was the produced by the party of "stupid", but that covers both the right and the left, so it doesn't answer your question. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 16, 2024, 09:58:12 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 16, 2024, 08:57:12 PM

wonder what they refer to as the top 10%

I'd probably go with upper middle for the top 20% and rich for the top 10

If middle is 50%, why would you use 'middle' anywhere near 20%?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2024, 10:12:41 PM

The party of stupid.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2024, 10:39:23 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 16, 2024, 09:58:12 PM

If middle is 50%, why would you use 'middle' anywhere near 20%?

because it doesn't fit my definition of rich

maybe we need an upper class and then a rich instead of jumping from upper middle to rich?

funny to me how we have 3 middle classes
_________________________________________________ _______


Lower class: The bottom 20% of earners with household incomes not exceeding $28,007.
Lower middle class: Those in the 20th to 40th percentile of household income, between $28,008 and $55,000.
Middle class: Those in the 40th to 60th percentile of household income, ranging from $55,001 to $89,744.
Upper middle class: Households in the 60th to 80th percentile, with incomes between $89,745 and $149,131.
Upper class: The top 20% of earners, with household incomes of $149,132 or more.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2024, 07:44:10 AM

Different sites break things out differently of course, there isn't one "right" way.

Hidden in this is wealthy folks who don't earn much taxable income.

(https://i.imgur.com/pbylPps.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2024, 08:14:46 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/jwQrObs.png)

Ddemocrats promise to raise taxes (on the rich) and Republicans promise to cut spending.  In my view, neither does either (to any extent).  So, we have a persistent deficit problem that won't go away and likely won't get much better.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 17, 2024, 08:24:56 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 16, 2024, 06:45:48 PM

How To Tell Whether You’re Rich
Upper class: The top 20% of earners, with household incomes of $149,132 or more.

That would make me under half way to rich,that number would definitely be considered comfortable. But taking the Federal Government's word for it reminds us of the old adage. Doing business with them is like wearing a rubber - gives one the feeling of security while being screwed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2024, 08:37:42 AM

I think folks who used terms like rich and wealthy should be required to define same.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 17, 2024, 08:42:49 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 16, 2024, 07:13:02 PM

Yeah, I'm now trying to figure out where to purchase a vacation home.

I mean, I rent my current house, so I don't actually own a home. But a vacation home sounds fun!

And I mean, my wife and I work and so we don't actually have "extended periods of time" to spend in exotic locales, OR the vacation home we don't own.

But why let any of that stop me? The web site says I'm rich, so I need a vacation home!

It does, until you figure out that you have to go to it all the time to justify the $$$ it costs. Talk to me about the boat we had on Lake Michigan (a vacation home that moved a lot). We went every weekend - sometimes even if we didn't want to go - to justify the cost, in our minds.

I disagree with the premise that the "rich" look to buy vacation homes.

The wealthy buy vacation homes, and don't care if they sit empty 50 weeks out of the year.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 17, 2024, 08:46:45 AM

Yup.  Vacation homes are for the wealthy. 

After I buy that Port Royal joint, I'll be looking at additional vacation homes in Nice, Switzerland, and Bora Bora.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2024, 09:06:37 AM

my financial guy asked me if I wanted a winter place in Texas or Florida

This was a few years ago
I assumed he wanted me to give him more $$$ to invest to make it happen.

I said, Nah, I'd settle for a red sports car

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 17, 2024, 09:20:17 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 16, 2024, 06:45:48 PM

How To Tell Whether You’re Rich

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/net-worth-for-baby-boomers%3A-how-to-tell-whether-youre-poor-middle-class-upper-middle-class (https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/net-worth-for-baby-boomers%3A-how-to-tell-whether-youre-poor-middle-class-upper-middle-class)

I'm F-F-Fu...I'm screwed

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2024, 09:26:57 AM

"It’s time that we give our daughters the same opportunities as our sons and ensure women are paid what they deserve." - J. Biden

OK, how should we determine what they deserve?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2024, 09:28:09 AM

equal to sons

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 17, 2024, 09:31:36 AM

doing the same work with no maternity leave unless they take it out of their sick time

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2024, 09:34:11 AM

I figure if I ran a business and could hire women to do the SAME JOB as men for 80% of the lay, I'd hire ONLY women.

I can't imagine any larger business who pays women less for he same work.  It makes no sense, and where I worked of course, being a woman was a major advantage in terms of promotion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2024, 09:56:48 AM

what wine pairs with coneys?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2024, 09:57:46 AM

If I had to choose, I'd probably go with zinfandel, but beer is better I think.  Maybe Champage would pair with Coneys, or 4 ways.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 17, 2024, 09:58:25 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 17, 2024, 09:56:48 AM

what wine pairs with coneys?

Maddog 20/20

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2024, 10:25:35 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/BfqeOrc.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 17, 2024, 10:50:16 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 17, 2024, 09:56:48 AM

what wine pairs with coneys?

Three buck Chuck. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 17, 2024, 11:23:42 AM

Man, a good coney sounds great right now. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2024, 11:58:57 AM

sounds better than a bottle of Three buck Chuck

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2024, 12:04:36 PM

I have this memory that White Castle once had Dom Perignon on their menu.

Menu - White Castle (https://www.whitecastle.com/menu)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 17, 2024, 12:05:23 PM

Interesting. My brother sent this to me. He thinks the same as I do on this. Good kid.

Defund the thing, or fire everyone and start over. A taxpayer-funded "news" outlet needs to be completely unbiased.

NPR whistleblower Uri Berliner resigns: ‘I cannot work in a newsroom where I am disparaged’ | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/media/npr-whistleblower-uri-berliner-resigns-i-cannot-work-newsroom-where-disparaged)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2024, 12:07:35 PM

My take is that every "news outlet" needs a clientel, at least it's preferable.  Some cater to the right, some to the left, others cater to special interests (business channels for example).  NPR caters to one of those groups, if they didn't, they probably not have many listeners.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2024, 12:08:07 PM

taxpayer funded news outlet??????

like Russia, or China, or Iran???

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 17, 2024, 12:08:29 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 17, 2024, 11:58:57 AM

sounds better than a bottle of Three buck Chuck

Hey I'll take both

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 17, 2024, 12:10:38 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 17, 2024, 12:07:35 PM

My take is that every "news outlet" needs a clientel, at least it's preferable.  Some cater to the right, some to the left, others cater to special interests (business channels for example).  NPR caters to one of those groups, if they didn't, they probably not have many listeners.

Half the country is paying for something they wouldn't listen to in this case. Out of 87 employees at NPR, there are 87 registered Democrats.

I don't want to pay for that, let alone listen/read/hear about it.

Trim the fat. They can go "work" elsewhere.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 17, 2024, 12:10:57 PM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 17, 2024, 12:08:07 PM

taxpayer funded news outlet??????

like Russia, or China, or Iran???

Pretty much.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2024, 12:11:20 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 17, 2024, 12:08:29 PM

Hey I'll take both

well, if you're buyin

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2024, 12:11:54 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 17, 2024, 12:10:38 PM

Half the country is paying for something they wouldn't listen to in this case. Out of 87 employees at NPR, there are 87 registered Democrats.

I don't want to pay for that, let alone listen/read/hear about it.

Trim the fat. They can go "work" elsewhere.

CNN

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2024, 12:17:48 PM

Supposedly, only like 7% of their funding is Federal, or so they say during fund raising.  I used to think that wasn't much, they could cut that out and just pay a bit less or whatever, have an occasional ad (which they do anyway).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Temp430 on April 17, 2024, 12:39:23 PM

How would the left react if US tax payers funded Breibart?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2024, 12:45:04 PM

If I started cutting government waste, this one would be on about Day 3 of my activities.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2024, 01:10:33 PM

better late than never

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2024, 01:25:15 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/PoToVOh.png)

Did Utee design this?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 17, 2024, 01:38:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 17, 2024, 01:25:15 PM

[img width=280.994 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/PoToVOh.png[/img]

Did Utee design this?

Nope.  My bathroom/telecoms distribution center has white marble floors.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2024, 02:29:34 PM

at least it's off the floor a couple feet

I've purchased and sold most to the stuff in that rack, including the racks

Never allowed one to be placed in the restroom but it happens
the other options for location might have been worse

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2024, 02:35:30 PM

What is all that stuff, comm gear or servers?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 17, 2024, 02:54:23 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 17, 2024, 02:35:30 PM

What is all that stuff, comm gear or servers?

Looks like primarily networking/telecom equipment. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2024, 02:56:40 PM

yup
patch panel, a switch, some voice gear, and some power on the bottom

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 17, 2024, 03:55:00 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 16, 2024, 06:03:47 PM

#4 is where I would stop, to be honest.

1. A complete withdrawal from NATO is not in the cards at the moment. Putin would immediately act to put the Soviet band back together. It would be bloody in the Baltics.

2. Removal of troops from the Pacific would encourage China to take Taiwan, and it won't stop there. Taiwan is extremely important for the US, which is an unfortunate threat to our national security. South Korea is the same.

3. I don't know how you go about cutting the budget. There are already issues with the forces getting smaller. Gen Z is not buying in.

5. I'd pull back on the funding. And yes, tell them to move it to Geneva. The UN building can be a home for migrants that way.

1) fail to see the evidence for this. Putin has been in power in Russia for 25 years, and his wars with Georgia and Ukraine were in large part fueled by US expansion of NATO and other various US shenanigans (CIA backed coup of a democratically elected gov't in Ukraine in 2014). Eastern Europe is of no concern to vital US global strategic interests or US national security. Zero. Zilch. Nada. The continual proxy war, sanctioning, and aggressive posture with Russia actually hurts US global strategic interests and US national security- as it's just driving the Russians deeper into the hands of China, which is a disaster scenario for the US longterm- which has always been worst case scenario for continual global hegemony of US- China & Russia aligning in an unholy military and economic alliance.

2) US will never remove troops from the Pacific. China is the only peer competitor in the world to the US, and the South China Sea is arguably the most important region to the US in terms of it's global economic strategic interests (Middle East right up there as well) and about a quarter of world trade flows through that region and 90%+ of advanced high-end microchips are manufactured in Taiwan. That much world trade flowing through there + chips our entire society, economy, and way of life are built around flowing through there = we are pretty screwed if that gets disrupted in anyway. 

3) it's not that hard to cut the military budget, close down a bunch of bases (hint: we don't need over 800 bases in 100 countries) and start cracking down on waste and out-right fraud in the Pentagon. Pentagon has never passed an independent audit and has $2 trillion worth of assets it can't account for. It's the only government agency that has failed to do so. You can actually prosecute fraud and waste or just pass budget cuts to the defense budget- but our weasel politicians do not have the stomach for any of that. 

4) UN has many flaws and issues- (permanent security council veto)- but it is an important world body that has largely worked in keeping another world war from blasting off since it's creation in 1945. I'd say we should probably keep it intact. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 17, 2024, 03:58:57 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 17, 2024, 12:05:23 PM

Interesting. My brother sent this to me. He thinks the same as I do on this. Good kid.

Defund the thing, or fire everyone and start over. A taxpayer-funded "news" outlet needs to be completely unbiased.

NPR whistleblower Uri Berliner resigns: ‘I cannot work in a newsroom where I am disparaged’ | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/media/npr-whistleblower-uri-berliner-resigns-i-cannot-work-newsroom-where-disparaged)

US gov't should not be funding news outlets at all imo. Even to the tune of a penny.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 17, 2024, 10:14:26 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 16, 2024, 01:35:32 AM

I'm not sure you know what the word "stars" means....

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1780779250054041652?t=6VRyLvlbqU-5ycmHd7lQCw&s=19

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2024, 11:55:30 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 17, 2024, 02:35:30 PM

What is all that stuff, comm gear or servers?

Well you've got the plunger there in the corner.  Looks to be a toilet brush as well...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2024, 11:57:20 PM

Quote from: ELA on April 17, 2024, 10:14:26 PM

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1780779250054041652?t=6VRyLvlbqU-5ycmHd7lQCw&s=19

I'll get you a pair.  What size do you wear in women's?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 18, 2024, 06:18:31 AM

ELA can afford to buy several pairs for his lovely wife. He's rich.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2024, 08:08:18 AM

NPR is not really a standard "news outlet", not that it matters with respect to Federal funding.  They spend most of their air time on "shows", interviews usually.  Some are quite good, I could and do live without them.  I used to listen on the way to work.  I don't any more.

I think "we" got into this back in the day when such radio channels were not widely available.  But, in terms of what to cut, this would be Day 3 on my list.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2024, 08:09:15 AM

I saw a fair number of comments comparing her salary with some NBA type's.  They nearly all missed a salient point.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2024, 08:31:57 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/dbzrwvd.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2024, 09:57:50 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/Y1FeQFC.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 18, 2024, 11:42:50 AM

This hurts.

https://www.wsj.com/economy/housing/home-sales-mortgage-rates-march-report-4a501537?st=f97cm5et9b4ia8k&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: LetsGoPeay on April 18, 2024, 11:53:04 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 18, 2024, 08:31:57 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/dbzrwvd.png)

Right now I'm loving the AI. I stumbled upon the AI assistant in Adobe Acrobat. It will scan and summarize a PDF document. It can also generate a list of the most important points or pretty much anything else you ask it to do. I'm working on my dissertation and it is invaluable. Well, I guess Adobe has determined it to be moderately valuable as it is only $4.99 a month for the annual plan. I'd pay REDACTED that amount. Don't want AI reading that and bumping up the cost on me. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2024, 02:44:37 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/h7LeqFs.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 18, 2024, 07:08:48 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 18, 2024, 11:42:50 AM

This hurts.

https://www.wsj.com/economy/housing/home-sales-mortgage-rates-march-report-4a501537?st=f97cm5et9b4ia8k&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Yes, the banks- and many businesses are hurting.

like all businesses, they project their earnings for the year, which includes their revenues and expenses. It’s especially sensitive for Banks because those forecasts were based on inflation being under control, and multiple fed rate cuts.

Now we see the inflation is not at all under control, government spending is on a runaway train, and the fed talking about no rate cut and possibly increasing rates.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 18, 2024, 07:51:04 PM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 18, 2024, 07:08:48 PM

Yes, the banks- and many businesses are hurting.

like all businesses, they project their earnings for the year, which includes their revenues and expenses. It’s especially sensitive for Banks because those forecasts were based on inflation being under control, and multiple fed rate cuts.

Now we see the inflation is not at all under control, government spending is on a runaway train, and the fed talking about no rate cut and possibly increasing rates.

Un-mitigated disaster. That's how I see it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 18, 2024, 09:22:34 PM

I haven't really seen inflation being an issue lately. The housing shortage has driven a lot of rising costs, though that's something with a different solution.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 18, 2024, 09:40:24 PM

Restaurant owners and managers from across the country were excitedly waving their paddles at this year’s annual trade-only Premiere Napa Valley (PNV) auction in February, each looking to secure one-of-a-kind lots of rare wines for their lists or to showcase at exclusive wine dinners.

“It’s exciting to walk away having bought something,” says Jason Cooper, the owner of Velvet 48, a restaurant and wine bar in Burlingame, California. “This year, I bought one lot of rosé made together by Cathy Corison, Rosemary Cakebread, and Steve Matthiasson. I understand it’s only the second or third lot of rosé ever sold at this auction.”

Robert Rand, the owner of Archie’s Waeside, a steakhouse in Le Mars, Iowa, says he comes to Napa each year to bid for rare wines that serve as a prime attraction to his rural restaurant. “We’ve only about 9,000 people where we live in northwest Iowa,” says Rand, “but we draw customers from more than 100 miles away because of our wine list.”



https://daily.sevenfifty.com/a-buyers-guide-to-wine-auctions/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR0a-_daPadpe90b70REogAS0uCywxvUwgPcdSA8361QPo95iyXFAee2n5w_aem_AdMxGjkv2aHy3AQ17H639DZOjS_C2FBz0drAK9iNxYNNE7AB8sJtsH62F89TbO7mrD0ZjtjMT48QhBO0sck2NScz (https://daily.sevenfifty.com/a-buyers-guide-to-wine-auctions/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR0a-_daPadpe90b70REogAS0uCywxvUwgPcdSA8361QPo95iyXFAee2n5w_aem_AdMxGjkv2aHy3AQ17H639DZOjS_C2FBz0drAK9iNxYNNE7AB8sJtsH62F89TbO7mrD0ZjtjMT48QhBO0sck2NScz)


While auctions can be exciting places to acquire important wines, experienced bidders such as Cooper and Rand have taken the time to understand the different types of auctions, which helps them maximize the benefits and avoid surprises.

There are two basic types of auctions. Consumer auctions allow anyone with the financial resources to bid, while trade auctions, such as PNV, are only open to professionals who make, buy, or sell wines. Consumer auctions usually consist of old and rare bottles from a collector’s cellar, although they sometimes include library wines that a producer has not yet released for sale.

Trade auctions, also known as barrel auctions, offer new vintages of unreleased wines still in barrel, which are often produced to support a local charity, or as a fundraiser for a regional association of wine producers. A successful bidder buys a lot of a predetermined number of cases, usually of a wine that’s exclusive to the bidder once pre-auction tastings have been completed. Although the bidder pays immediately, the wine won’t be bottled and shipped for months or years, depending on the wine.


Next, Rand says he does his homework. “I check out the wines being auctioned and their average prices before I get there,” he says, “then I look at what’s happening in online bidding.” Several sources track wine selling prices on the secondary market, including Liv-ex and Wine Market Journal.

The markup for auction wines is sometimes less than wines bought at retail, but Rand says that he always makes a profit. “They usually go on my lists at $300 to $600 a bottle.”

Even in states that don’t allow auction wines on restaurant wine lists, successful bidders may be able to feature wines at special dinners or as their contributions at local charity auctions.

“At trade auctions, the wines are still in barrels, so when they finally ship us the wines, I have them also send the barrel heads,” says Rand. “We keep them on the wall in one room of the restaurant. Our customers love it!”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 19, 2024, 07:14:05 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 18, 2024, 09:22:34 PM

I haven't really seen inflation being an issue lately. The housing shortage has driven a lot of rising costs, though that's something with a different solution.

Inflation came in hot at 3.5% in March, CPI report shows. Fed could delay rate cuts. (msn.com)

 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/inflation-accelerated-in-march-cpi-report-shows-whats-the-impact-on-fed-rate-cuts/ar-BB1lofCK)Fed Says Economy Continues to Expand, Underlying Recent Shift Away From Any Imminent Cut in Interest Rates (msn.com)

 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/fed-says-economy-continues-to-expand-underlying-recent-shift-away-from-any-imminent-cut-in-interest-rates/ar-BB1lNY0u)Interest rate cut odds dwindle as inflation progress stalls (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/economy/interest-rate-cut-odds-dwindle-as-inflation-progress-stalls/ar-BB1lNpWO)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 19, 2024, 07:17:00 AM

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on April 19, 2024, 07:14:05 AM

Inflation came in hot at 3.5% in March, CPI report shows. Fed could delay rate cuts. (msn.com)

 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/inflation-accelerated-in-march-cpi-report-shows-whats-the-impact-on-fed-rate-cuts/ar-BB1lofCK)Fed Says Economy Continues to Expand, Underlying Recent Shift Away From Any Imminent Cut in Interest Rates (msn.com)

 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/fed-says-economy-continues-to-expand-underlying-recent-shift-away-from-any-imminent-cut-in-interest-rates/ar-BB1lNY0u)Interest rate cut odds dwindle as inflation progress stalls (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/economy/interest-rate-cut-odds-dwindle-as-inflation-progress-stalls/ar-BB1lNpWO)

From the first article:

"driven largely by the rising cost of rent and gasoline"

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2024, 07:21:47 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 19, 2024, 07:17:00 AM

From the first article:

"driven largely by the rising cost of rent and gasoline"

The cost of fuel affects the cost of everything you buy.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 19, 2024, 07:25:39 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 19, 2024, 07:17:00 AM

From the first article:

"driven largely by the rising cost of rent and gasoline"

Basic economics:  the biggest driver of inflation is Fed policy and government spending.  

you said inflation is not a problem.  Clearly it is.  Now read up on stagflation- which we are rapidly approaching.   Not good.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 19, 2024, 07:25:56 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2024, 07:21:47 AM

The cost of fuel affects the cost of everything you buy.

Sure, all things are interconnected. The striking thing is the idea that Joe Biden can magically change the price of housing and gas, and it is just fine that the biggest issue facing Congress is border security. It's a joke. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 19, 2024, 07:27:19 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 19, 2024, 07:25:56 AM

Sure, all things are interconnected. The striking thing is the idea that Joe Biden can magically change the price of housing and gas, and it is just fine that the biggest issue facing Congress is border security. It's a joke.

My post is not political ( or intended to be).
Government over spending and printing money is not unique to anyone party.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2024, 07:28:16 AM

Drill more. Open up Alaska. The Alaskan people are begging for it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2024, 07:39:51 AM

In my view, COVID led to inflation, coupled with the various government bailouts, including the last one.  Households ended up spending a lot less than normal when much of travel and entertainment was shuttered.  A lot of folks then wanted to make up for lost time, and figured they had a year's worth of "savings" to spend.  So, demand spiked at about the same time that supply of various things was still limited (including fuel) by lingering COVID issues (oil production can't increase very rapidly).  And I think a lot of folks laid off during COVID weren't anxious to return to work, maybe they made other plans, so wage costs increases a lot.  There were help wanted signs everywhere.

Once inflation starts, it leads to more inflation, spiraling usually.  We're lucky that wasn't worse.

The current US inflation rate of something like 3.5% is more embedded, not due to some special cause, and the Fed trying to get to 2% is finding it is stubborn, and they have not managed to kick the economy into recession which MIGHT lower it more.  I also think the Fed acted about 9 months too late in tightening, one could see all this about to happen pretty readily I think.  I did anyway.

We spent about a year here with virtually no travel or dining expenses and I know we built up more "cash" than I planned, so we too were anxious to get out and hit the trail, and did.  

I don't think it likely we'll see consistent 2% inflation without an economic downturn.  And of course somehow magically the Federal government is now addicted to deficits of $2 trillion a year or more, that to seems unlikely to change any time soon, if ever.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2024, 08:25:49 AM

Hopefully the kid can make it work.

Inflation pushing next generation farmers out of the business: 'Can’t believe what things cost' | Fox Business (https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/inflation-pushing-next-generation-farmers-out-of-the-business-cant-believe-what-things-cost)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2024, 08:32:23 AM

Farming, from what I understand, now is commercial.  Family farms are dwindling.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 19, 2024, 08:43:52 AM

have been since my Grandparents were farming

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 19, 2024, 09:52:44 AM

https://youtu.be/l9TuAAISOVw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2024, 10:00:04 AM

That's of course one of many FB "fakes" I see from time to time, often some weird looking "plane" following AF One around, supposedly.

The new "Ford Class" is the newest Aircraft carrier, it looks pretty much like a Nimitz class on the surface.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2024, 10:54:49 AM

What would this look like?

China on brink of Taiwan invasion as NATO braces for World War 3 (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-on-brink-of-taiwan-invasion-as-nato-braces-for-world-war-3/ar-AA1njlH9?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=80b0f34f4705496eb1374318e944cf05&ei=10)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 19, 2024, 10:58:57 AM

would be ugly

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 19, 2024, 11:10:09 AM

China can't just bomb Taiwan, they'd have to occupy it.

To do so, they'd have to send their troops across the ocean.

They don't have the naval capability to do this from a troop transport perspective, and even if they did, those troops are absolute sitting ducks throughout their entire transit time.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2024, 11:11:13 AM

My personal opinion is that China is playing the "long game" on Taiwan (and everything else, mostly).  If they attack Taiwan, it's not at all certain they would win, at least not quickly.  And if they did, what would they have accomplished?  They'd have alienated most of their customer, including us.  They would have lost a good sized portion of their military.  They'd have gained a war torn island with some economic status, at least once it was fixed, if the rebelious natives could be "managed".

It's a nice Talking Point for them as it is.

A couple of LA class 688 subs could do a lot of damage to their fleet, and covertly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2024, 11:17:47 AM

Taiwan - Market Overview (trade.gov) (https://www.trade.gov/country-commercial-guides/taiwan-market-overview#:~:text=In 2022%2C U.S. exports of goods and services,trade deficit with Taiwan increased to %2450.4 billion.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2024, 03:46:18 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/jVIdP4g.png)

This came out today.  I do find the current oil production situation in the US to be full of irony and contradiction.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 19, 2024, 05:38:28 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2024, 08:25:49 AM

Hopefully the kid can make it work.

Inflation pushing next generation farmers out of the business: 'Can’t believe what things cost' | Fox Business (https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/inflation-pushing-next-generation-farmers-out-of-the-business-cant-believe-what-things-cost)

American agriculture policy has been "Get bigger or die trying" for over 100 years. 

There are a lot of farms that are huge, corporate operations where a family holds all the shares. If anyone in the family has any business savvy, the operation is split into about 40 LLCs, all of which are soaking off expenses from the other. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 19, 2024, 05:49:56 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2024, 10:54:49 AM

What would this look like?

China on brink of Taiwan invasion as NATO braces for World War 3 (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-on-brink-of-taiwan-invasion-as-nato-braces-for-world-war-3/ar-AA1njlH9?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=80b0f34f4705496eb1374318e944cf05&ei=10)

One under-appreciated aspect of their one child policy is that China has a LOT more men than women in their population. I read somewhere that the imbalance was on the order of 100 million more men than women in the population.

The problem is twofold: 1) the PRC has built their army to put down internal rebellion. 2) Even if the men could get equipped, the PRC has to get them across the Taiwan Strait. Unless things have significantly changed, they don't have the ability to get them there and keep getting them there.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 19, 2024, 06:19:56 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2024, 10:54:49 AM

What would this look like?

China on brink of Taiwan invasion as NATO braces for World War 3 (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-on-brink-of-taiwan-invasion-as-nato-braces-for-world-war-3/ar-AA1njlH9?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=80b0f34f4705496eb1374318e944cf05&ei=10)

seems like nothing but scare tactics and yellow journalism. no pun intended.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 19, 2024, 06:20:42 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 19, 2024, 07:25:56 AM

Sure, all things are interconnected. The striking thing is the idea that Joe Biden can magically change the price of housing and gas, and it is just fine that the biggest issue facing Congress is border security. It's a joke.

A President's policy actions both domestic and foreign most definitely influence the price of housing in the US and oil prices. No one is saying he can magically wave a wand- these things are affected in long drawn out processes, and Biden's domestic and foreign policies in large part have been nothing short of disaster.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 19, 2024, 06:21:20 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 19, 2024, 11:10:09 AM

China can't just bomb Taiwan, they'd have to occupy it.

To do so, they'd have to send their troops across the ocean.

They don't have the naval capability to do this from a troop transport perspective, and even if they did, those troops are absolute sitting ducks throughout their entire transit time.

this. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 19, 2024, 06:30:42 PM

so Israel struck an Iranian air base in Iran today, but apparently was just for show and to "check off a box" and nothing major....at least that is what this AP report is spinning. Hopefully that spin is correct and this can be the end of it. Hopefully....

https://apnews.com/article/iran-israel-mideast-tensions-4-19-2024-a7ccbae2e2844bab089e8e4377a24ddb

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2024, 06:47:43 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 19, 2024, 06:20:42 PM

A President's policy actions both domestic and foreign most definitely influence the price of housing in the US and oil prices. No one is saying he can magically wave a wand- these things are affected in long drawn out processes, and Biden's domestic and foreign policies in large part have been nothing short of disaster.

A disaster because oil prices are at record highs?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 19, 2024, 09:52:06 PM

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 19, 2024, 06:20:42 PM

A President's policy actions both domestic and foreign most definitely influence the price of housing in the US and oil prices. No one is saying he can magically wave a wand- these things are affected in long drawn out processes, and Biden's domestic and foreign policies in large part have been nothing short of disaster.

It's honestly a drop in the bucket and not even worth considering compared to the power of Congress. The legislature is largely absent and we are arguing over the crumbs of what the president can provide. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on April 19, 2024, 10:20:11 PM

Quote from: utee94 on April 19, 2024, 11:10:09 AM

China can't just bomb Taiwan, they'd have to occupy it.

To do so, they'd have to send their troops across the ocean.

They don't have the naval capability to do this from a troop transport perspective, and even if they did, those troops are absolute sitting ducks throughout their entire transit time.

I honestly don’t know what their capabilities are. Do you?  What are ours?  Some of you seem to have intimate knowledge of a foreign nations military capability, I don’t. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 19, 2024, 10:22:49 PM

Quote from: Gigem on April 19, 2024, 10:20:11 PM

I honestly don’t know what their capabilities are. Do you?  What are ours?  Some of you seem to have intimate knowledge of a foreign nations military capability, I don’t.

I feel pretty good about France not invading England

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 20, 2024, 01:00:24 AM

Why are we acting like China doesn't have planes?  lol

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 20, 2024, 06:40:38 AM

China has a very large navy. They have more ships than the US.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 20, 2024, 07:15:25 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 19, 2024, 09:52:06 PM

It's honestly a drop in the bucket and not even worth considering compared to the power of Congress. The legislature is largely absent and we are arguing over the crumbs of what the president can provide.

His administration could simply and easily enforce rules that are on the books, but that's not the playbook. He doesn't need anything from Congress to do many of the things that he is not doing - particularly with the border.

Blame Trump. That's the playbook.

As for the price of oil:

Biden administration moves to restrict oil and gas leases on 13m acres in Alaska | Alaska | The Guardian

A (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/19/biden-alaska-oil-gas-restrictions)nd other energy:

Unlocking America's energy potential by reversing Biden's LNG export ban - Washington Times

N (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/apr/17/unlocking-americas-energy-potential-by-reversing-b/)ext, we can talk student loans, for which he thinks he doesn't need Congress to appropriate funding for forgiving them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 20, 2024, 07:18:57 AM

WSJ: Biden Piles Sanctions on Alaska

https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-sanctions-alaska-oil-and-gas-dan-sullivan-mary-sattler-peltola-2fcc1a3e?st=7jrmvl7bl95trjn&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2024, 07:54:01 AM

These restrictions on drilling have not "yet" had much impact on US oil production because most of it happens on private lands.  And oil production companies are not going to explore and drill  excessively if they have other good options.  This stuff is mostly for show to pander to the enviro types without having much or any real impact.

At some point, production of private lands will of course "dry up" and these restrictions could have impact.

In my opinion, Biden has had little impact on gasoline prices in the US aside from the SPR release.  A ton of this stuff is pure imagery.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 20, 2024, 08:01:34 AM

Tell that to Alaskans.

You are also ignoring that the area is rich in minerals that that US greatly needs.

No drilling, no mining.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2024, 08:25:44 AM

Maybe so, but it's all somewhere in the future even if it was opened up.  I personally would open it up with restrictions, but I don't think this sort of thing impacts oil prices today, at all.  It's imagery.  Any actual production from those areas would be 5-6-7-8 years off in the future.  Meanwhile, they just will drill more on private lands instead, where it's probably a lot cheaper anyway.

OPEC+ does have a significant impact on oil prices, or they can at times.  They already claim to be cutting production to keep prices higher.  There usually is cheating going on.

Of course, we'll all be driving EVs in the "near future", so it's all moot.

(That comment is sarcasm of course but I've run across a few people who believe it despite hard numbers.  And maybe at some point, EVs could cut demand for oil, but I think that point is pretty far off, maybe 2040, maybe longer.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 20, 2024, 08:34:43 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 20, 2024, 08:25:44 AM

Maybe so, but it's all somewhere in the future even if it was opened up.  I personally would open it up with restrictions, but I don't think this sort of thing impacts oil prices today, at all.  It's imagery.  Any actual production from those areas would be 5-6-7-8 years off in the future.  Meanwhile, they just will drill more on private lands instead, where it's probably a lot cheaper anyway.

OPEC+ does have a significant impact on oil prices, or they can at times.  They already claim to be cutting production to keep prices higher.  There usually is cheating going on.

Of course, we'll all be driving EVs in the "near future", so it's all moot.

(That comment is sarcasm of course but I've run across a few people who believe it despite hard numbers.  And maybe at some point, EVs could cut demand for oil, but I think that point is pretty far off, maybe 2040, maybe longer.)

We can't just think about today. We should always be looking to the future because we don't know what will happen.

Control what we can control. We cannot control or rely on OPEC or China. We can definitely control what happens on our land.

China is in control from a mineral standpoint, and they are restricting or banning exports of critical components for chips and other technology.

Alaska is rich in... guess what? Why shoot ourselves in the foot? Why?!?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2024, 08:38:15 AM

As I said, it is imaging, largely, not substance (though it may have substance, but I never heard that ANWR was rich in minerals, but it's a huge area).

The Administration has to send out signals it's combatting climate change to appease its base.  At the same time, it cannot note that US oil production is at record levels, it hopes that fact is swept under some rug, and of course Republicans don't want that known either.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2024, 08:40:10 AM

We walk by this building almost daily and have commented about how well it is maintained, and it is in a great location.  That HOA fee is high, to me, for a small unit.

Who says a sweet pad in the middle of Midtown has to cost an arm + leg? A Frisbee’s toss from [color=var(--blue-link)]Piedmont Park ATL[/iurl][/font][/size][/color], this 2-story, 16-unit, 1923 building on 12th Street has charm to spare. Owning this smartly updated, 1-bedroom, 1-bath piece of it will cost $249K (plus $400 monthly HOA fees). With its contemporary-style kitchen and appliances, it’s modernized but not TOO modern, with perks that include refinished hardwoods, a communal deck, and bike rack in the basement. Bystandards, the 623 sq. ft. isn’t huge, but also by today’s ATL standards, neither is the price

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 20, 2024, 08:41:51 AM

Anyone with a pulse should know that fact.

Gotta play the long game HERE, when it comes to energy and technology. Playing for today is foolish and all it does is garner votes from one side or the other. 

"We're" stupid.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2024, 08:48:09 AM

Obviously it's an election year.  I don't expect "logical" actions out of DC, especially this year.  It's all predicated on appeasing one's base, or nearly all.  Biden, like Trump, has a fractured base.  It's an interesting situation, to me.  Usually, the Republicans and Democrats largely line up behind their candidate, with some grumbling, and the election is decided by turnout, the 20% in thhe middle, and key state outcomes.

In this one, we have quite a few who would normally check R or D but who really despise their candidate.  I think some will stay home, more than normal, or vote for "Goofy".  But usually as the day nears, most folks hold their noses and vote for "their guy" as the LOTE.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2024, 02:26:37 PM

After having dug to a depth of 10 feet last year outside of Buffalo, New York scientists found traces of copper cable dating back 120 years.

They came to the conclusion that their ancestors already had a telephone network more than 100 years ago.

Not to be outdone by the New Yorkers, in the weeks that followed, a Wheeling WV archaeologist dug to a depth of 20 feet somewhere just outside Woodsdale.

Shortly after, a story in the The Intelligencer read, "WV archaeologists, reporting a finding of 200 year old copper cable, have concluded that their ancestors already had an advanced high-tech communications network a hundred years earlier than the New Yorkers.

One week later, a local newspaper in Barton Ohio reported the following: "After digging down about 30 feet deep in his pasture near the community of Hell’s Kitchen, Pete Riley, a hell of an engineer and a self-taught archaeologist reported that he found absolutely nothing.

Riley has therefore concluded that 300 years ago, Ohio had already gone wireless."

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 20, 2024, 03:14:11 PM

This from Eleven Warriors a Buckeye Board

Did anyone else hear Nueheisal and Childress on College Sports Today this morning talking about Harbaugh?  That was one of the funniest segments I have ever heard. 

They were talking about how Jim Harbaugh’s living in an RV right now and they played some recent quotes from Jimmy boy.  Jimmy was talking about how proud he is that he learned how to empty the RV’s septic waste system and that you know you’ve become a real dad when you can empty your own septic waste system.

Childress said to Neuheisal, “Rick you spend a ton of time in LA and you know how when you’re in Southern Cal you see the strangest people….  Walking down Hollywood Blvd, muscle beach and all around LA you just see a lot of weird people.  Rick, don’t you think Jim Harbaugh may well be the weirdest one you see?”

Neuheisal said “he’s the weird guy trying to be old school and he somehow convinced the UM fan base that what he was doing was cool.  He like took them on the old fashioned tea cup ride at Disney and convinced the fan base isn’t this fun, this is the greatest thing ever””

They said eventually a documentary will come out about all of this and Jim Carey will need to play Harbaugh
------------------------------
other posters there chiming in
This resembles a Turd Ferguson post ;-)
-----------------------------
So Jim’s basically “LIVING IN A VAN, DOWN BY THE RIVER..!!”  Perfect.
-----------------------------
(https://i.imgur.com/y2uxJTl.png)
--------------------------------------
Harbaugh truly is the Cousin Eddie of football coaches, although I like Cousin Eddie a lot lot better.
------------------------------
BET
--------------------------------
LA deserves Crazy Jim Harbaugh. And you have to wonder; does  Crying Sharon Moore stiil 'fucking love' Jimmy?
---------------------------
They are(M Fans) as predictable as raccoons at garbage cans. Yeah, you can eat whatever garbage you want, but it's still garbage.....but hey, isn't a wolverine a racoon with a bad haircut?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 20, 2024, 03:33:27 PM

Winning is pretty cool.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 20, 2024, 07:47:23 PM

Get your check book ready

https://gop-waysandmeans.house.gov/the-biden-tax-hike-will-likely-exceed-7-trillion/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2024, 07:53:09 PM

These proposals never go anywhere. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 20, 2024, 07:57:02 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 20, 2024, 07:53:09 PM

These proposals never go anywhere.

How bout this program

300 million for Ukraines border but nothing for ours


https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/3704975/biden-administration-announces-urgent-security-assistance-for-ukraine/#:~:text=This%20Presidential%20Drawdown%20Authority%20(PDA,%2C%20and%20anti%2Dtank%20requirements.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2024, 08:27:23 PM

Presidential spending proposals are DOA.  Every time.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 20, 2024, 08:34:17 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 20, 2024, 08:27:23 PM

Presidential spending proposals are DOA.  Every time. 

many times they are reduced but not doa

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 20, 2024, 08:35:34 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 20, 2024, 07:57:02 PM

How bout this program

300 million for Ukraines border but nothing for ours


https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/3704975/biden-administration-announces-urgent-security-assistance-for-ukraine/#:~:text=This%20Presidential%20Drawdown%20Authority%20(PDA,%2C%20and%20anti%2Dtank%20requirements.

Proper equivalency if I've ever seen one.  :s_laugh:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 20, 2024, 08:37:26 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 20, 2024, 07:47:23 PM

Get your check book ready

https://gop-waysandmeans.house.gov/the-biden-tax-hike-will-likely-exceed-7-trillion/

How are these middle class tax cuts and I pondied up 2,100.00 to the feds 3 weeks ago because investments i had the balls to invest in actually turned a profit? but when they took a dive 3-4 yrs back I wasn't reimbursed? Oh that's right Pelosi gets lifetime healthcare as well as those crossing the border but I'm on the horn to pay 20% of whatever the hospitals feel like charging me. I've officially lost my religion and am now looking for a reckoning. A hard rain is gonna fall like Dylan said

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 20, 2024, 09:02:00 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 20, 2024, 08:35:34 PM

Proper equivalency if I've ever seen one.  :s_laugh:

lets see 300 million for Ukraines border
zero for US border

you are right there is no comparison there

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 20, 2024, 09:46:15 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 20, 2024, 09:02:00 PM

lets see 300 million for Ukraines border
zero for US border

you are right there is no comparison there

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/2022-03/U.S.%2520Customs%2520and%2520Border%2520Protection_Remediated.pdf

$17.5B annually is nothing?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 20, 2024, 09:53:12 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 20, 2024, 09:02:00 PM

lets see 300 million for Ukraines border
zero for US border

you are right there is no comparison there

One border is being attacked with weapons, tanks, and soldiers.

The other one is facing people in need who are willing to do jobs no one else wants.

Hard to spot the difference, I guess.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 20, 2024, 10:08:15 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 20, 2024, 09:46:15 PM

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/2022-03/U.S.%2520Customs%2520and%2520Border%2520Protection_Remediated.pdf

$17.5B annually is nothing?

please direct me to the place that indicates money being spent to send these folks back and not to a US city

the number of illegal immigrants has doubled under Brandon's office

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 20, 2024, 10:14:00 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 20, 2024, 09:53:12 PM

One border is being attacked with weapons, tanks, and soldiers.

The other one is facing people in need who are willing to do jobs no one else wants.

Hard to spot the difference, I guess. 

in both examples folks are entering the country illegally

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 20, 2024, 11:37:25 PM

Bless your heart

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2024, 06:40:48 AM

I think a lot of what has happened was a kneejerk reaction by this Administration to undo anything the previous Administration was doing or trying to do.

It seems pretty obvious to me that a wall or barrier in some areas is useful in helping Border Patrol "control" the border.  It's also obvious to me that in some parts of the border, a literal wall probably makes no sense.  But what we hear is one extreme or the other.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2024, 07:25:19 AM

Are the Russians bringing fentanyl and trafficking humans into Ukraine?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2024, 09:00:25 AM

In other news, we have good news!

Mike Rowe calls Gen Z the next 'toolbelt generation' amid increasing vocational enrollment | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/media/mike-rowe-calls-gen-z-next-toolbelt-generation-increasing-vocational-enrollment)

I was going to share the article from the WSJ a few weeks ago, but it was one of those that didn't offer a free share link. They do that sometimes.

How Gen Z Is Becoming the Toolbelt Generation - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/careers/gen-z-trades-jobs-plumbing-welding-a76b5e43?mod=Searchresults_pos1&page=1)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2024, 09:13:00 AM

“I’ll be honest, it took me a little bit mentally to get on board,” says Burgess’s mother, Lisa Hopkins, who studied drama and art history before obtaining an MBA. 

She never had much exposure to the trades, but she says she’s thrilled her son has found something he loves with good prospects: “He’s already thinking, ‘I want to buy my first house by the time I’m 24. I don’t have any debt, I’m off to the races.’”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2024, 09:22:17 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 20, 2024, 10:08:15 PM

please direct me to the place that indicates money being spent to send these folks back and not to a US city

the number of illegal immigrants has doubled under Brandon's office

Sure, just go ahead and change the subject when you get shown to be wrong.

You said Biden is spending $300M on Ukraine's border and none here. We spend $17.5B annually, here, on our border. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2024, 09:26:38 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2024, 09:22:17 AM

Sure, just go ahead and change the subject when you get shown to be wrong.

You said Biden is spending $300M on Ukraine's border and none here. We spend $17.5B annually, here, on our border.

Seems like a waste of money given what's going on down there right now.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2024, 09:28:46 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2024, 06:40:48 AM

It seems pretty obvious to me that a wall or barrier in some areas is useful in helping Border Patrol "control" the border.  It's also obvious to me that in some parts of the border, a literal wall probably makes no sense.  But what we hear is one extreme or the other.

give me an example

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2024, 09:49:22 AM

Along the Rio Grande for example there is a flood plain which can be extensive.  You can't build a wall directly on the river, it would wash out, but the general area may be used for say golf courses or ranches or even cities.  So, maybe you could build one 3-4-5 miles inland, but then you'd have a significant portion on the other side of the wall which folks would often desire to visit.

Another example would be a mountainous region which is intractable to anyone but experienced climbers.  And you have areas of desert which are sensitive ecological areas where perhaps you'd prefer to allow animals to go back and forth, if not humans.  There are parklands along the river in areas as well where a wall would despoil the intent of the park.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2024, 09:50:21 AM

Do you think a human made wall is needed here?

(https://i.imgur.com/Pwmmk1h.jpeg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2024, 09:54:16 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2024, 09:50:21 AM

Do you think a human made wall is needed here?

(https://i.imgur.com/Pwmmk1h.jpeg)

The man-made one seems to be fine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2024, 09:56:12 AM

good examples

ecological animals might have to adapt if I were in charge

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2024, 10:04:47 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/K83xMlQ.jpeg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2024, 10:07:08 AM

Rather than claiming one solution is best all along the border, I'd talk to Border Patrol and determine which areas need a wall, which need another kind of barrier, and which needs no barrier at all.  And of course, if the wall is set back from the river, anyone crossing the river short of the wall is on US territory and can make an asylum claim.

They turn themselves in to BP as soon as possible knowing they will get released.

I'd overhaul the entire immigration system, though I fear Congress  would mangle that badly.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2024, 10:14:35 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 21, 2024, 09:56:12 AM

good examples

ecological animals might have to adapt if I were in charge

You can build walls in floodplains. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2024, 10:19:40 AM

You can, but right on the river abutting it?  Probably not feasible everywhere, so you set it back some, even a few feet.  And folks who cross the river to those few feet are not in the US asking for asylum.

I think a wall is useful in some areas along the border, to say it isn't is fatuous, to me.  I also think it's unneeded on other parts of the border.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2024, 10:22:30 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2024, 09:26:38 AM

Seems like a waste of money given what's going on down there right now.

Probably, and I'm sure giving $300M to Ukraine for their border will probably be a waste too. 

But I responded to a simple complaint with a simple response. It was deliberately restricted in depth/breadth to merely show that the simple complaint was asinine and incorrect. 
 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2024, 10:27:09 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2024, 10:19:40 AM

You can, but right on the river abutting it?  Probably not feasible everywhere, so you set it back some, even a few feet.  And folks who cross the river to those few feet are not in the US asking for asylum.

I think a wall is useful in some areas along the border, to say it isn't is fatuous, to me.  I also think it's unneeded on other parts of the border.

So long as water can get through it (i.e. you cannot fill in a floodway) it can be done. This is called venting.

But technically, the border is generally the thalweg of the river (in Land Surveying theory).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2024, 10:31:50 AM

Why homicide rates are falling across the country | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/4606161-us-homicide-rates-falling/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2024, 10:44:23 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2024, 10:14:35 AM

You can build walls in floodplains.

yup, not a hill I wanted to defend

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2024, 10:46:26 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2024, 10:31:50 AM

Why homicide rates are falling across the country | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/4606161-us-homicide-rates-falling/)

because murderers aren't allowed to across the southern border and because of our restrictive gun laws??

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2024, 11:24:55 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2024, 10:22:30 AM

Probably, and I'm sure giving $300M to Ukraine for their border will probably be a waste too.

But I responded to a simple complaint with a simple response. It was deliberately restricted in depth/breadth to merely show that the simple complaint was asinine and incorrect.
 

it was very misleading as the DOHS does really very little to actually stem the tide os illegals

plenty of money being spent just not on protecting our southern border

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2024, 11:46:39 AM

Speaking of things I do not understand .... Bitcoin is halving and its miners are impacted.

Bitcoin miners get into AI to survive halving (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/21/bitcoin-miners-get-into-ai-to-survive-halving.html)

(https://i.imgur.com/54gB1Mw.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2024, 12:01:34 PM

similar to a stock splitting?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2024, 12:11:38 PM

Enrollment in vocational training programs is surging as overall enrollment in community colleges and four-year institutions has fallen. The number of students enrolled in vocational-focused community colleges rose 16% last year to its highest level since the National Student Clearinghouse began tracking such data in 2018. The ranks of students studying construction trades rose 23% during that time, while those in programs covering HVAC and vehicle maintenance and repair increased 7%. 

“It’s a really smart route for kids who want to find something and aren’t gung ho on going to college,” says Tanner Burgess, 20, who graduated from a nine-month welding program last fall. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2024, 12:13:38 PM

Though he’d originally figured he’d go to college, the route began to feel less appealing during the pandemic, when he watched his parents—both tech workers—gaze at their computers all day and realized he didn’t like the idea of spending his life seated before a screen. 

After reading up on the skilled trades, he settled on welding. “I thought it was cool because it had a lot of fire,” says Burgess, who’s now helping install pipes for a new hospital in San Diego. 


A secure job track and the prospect of steadily growing earnings didn’t hurt either. After five years at the profession, he says he expects to be making a six-figure annual income, based on what he sees others around him making. 


*************************

Sounds better than a multi six-figure debt, with a crap job, to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2024, 12:15:02 PM

Worker shortage

A shortage of skilled tradespeople (https://www.wsj.com/articles/construction-industry-has-work-needs-more-workers-da763703), brought on as older electricians (https://www.wsj.com/articles/america-is-trying-to-electrify-there-arent-enough-electricians-4260d05b), plumbers and welders retire, is driving up the cost of labor, as many sticker-shocked homeowners embarking on repairs and renovations in recent years have found. 

The median pay for new construction hires rose 5.1% to $48,089 last year. By contrast, new hires in professional services earned an annual $39,520, up 2.7% from 2022, according to data from payroll-services provider ADP. 


That’s the fourth year that median annual pay for new construction hires has eclipsed earnings for new hires in both the professional services and information sectors—such as accountants or IT maintenance workers—ADP says.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2024, 12:18:57 PM

I've mentioned before the percentage of European HS students who go to college, it's 35-40%, while in the US it's 65-70%.  There are various reasons why this happened.  But we're sending HS grads who are "below average" of the group to college.

It should be no shock when they drop out or get some degree in whatever that is basically nearly useless.

A thing about paying off their college loans, for me, is nothing is being done to prevent all this from happening again.  In fact, it would encourage more of it.  And in a few years, we're back in the same quandary.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 21, 2024, 12:20:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2024, 09:50:21 AM

Do you think a human made wall is needed here?

(https://i.imgur.com/Pwmmk1h.jpeg)

I backed away from the laptop - guy is nuts

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2024, 12:24:32 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2024, 12:18:57 PM

I've mentioned before the percentage of European HS students who go to college, it's 35-40%, while in the US it's 65-70%.  There are various reasons why this happened.  But we're sending HS grads who are "below average" of the group to college.

It should be no shock when they drop out or get some degree in whatever that is basically nearly useless.

A thing about paying off their college loans, for me, is nothing is being done to prevent all this from happening again.  In fact, it would encourage more of it.  And in a few years, we're back in the same quandary.

Bingo.

And it's just buying votes. It's not helping people who really need help. Those people don't send their kids to college.

So, who is really being helped? Those who live in places like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/Pky02qz.jpeg)

Not those who live in places like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/oEGYTGT.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2024, 12:24:42 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 21, 2024, 11:24:55 AM

it was very misleading as the DOHS does really very little to actually stem the tide os illegals

plenty of money being spent just not on protecting our southern border

This is what you said:

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 20, 2024, 07:57:02 PM

How bout this program

300 million for Ukraines border but nothing for ours


https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/3704975/biden-administration-announces-urgent-security-assistance-for-ukraine/#:~:text=This%20Presidential%20Drawdown%20Authority%20(PDA,%2C%20and%20anti%2Dtank%20requirements.

Nothing for ours? 

I mean, you only have to skip to page 8 to see that the Biden budget at $17.5B is over $1B larger than either 2021 or 2022. 

And then if you look at page 9 to read this:

Quote

The FY 2023 Budget includes $17.5B; 65,621 positions; and 61,049 full-time equivalents (FTE) for U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP).

CBP is responsible for securing America’s borders to protect the United States against terrorist threats and to prevent the illegal entry of inadmissible persons and contraband, while also facilitating lawful travel, trade, and immigration. In support of this mission, CBP is developing a well-informed, agile, and seamless global network of personnel, assets, and infrastructure that must constantly enhance and evolve its capabilities to (1) combat terrorism, (2) support and advance legitimate economic activities, (3) define, prioritize, and disrupt transnational criminal organizations (TCOs), and (4) prevent the spread of agricultural pests and diseases.

To support operational requirements and CBP’s mission, the FY 2023 Budget includes over $1B in new investments in modern border security technology; trade and travel enforcement and facilitation, mission capability enhancements and mission support enhancements as well as non-citizen processing and care to include the following key funding initiatives:

It then goes on to list those funding initiatives, QUITE a few of which are direclty related to modernizing/improving border security technology, hiring, etc. 

But go ahead. Persist in your belief. You won't read anything I linked anyway, so I know this will fall on deaf ears. As usual. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2024, 12:28:05 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2024, 12:24:42 PM

It then goes on to list those funding initiatives, QUITE a few of which are direclty related to modernizing/improving border security technology, hiring, etc.

Cliff notes version please. I have not been through all of it.

What else is in the budget? Does it include housing and such for migrants? Healthcare? Food? Clothing?

I'm genuinely curious.

If not, where does that come from?

Did Congress vote to appropriate the funds?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 21, 2024, 12:30:08 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2024, 12:15:02 PM

Worker shortage

A shortage of skilled tradespeople (https://www.wsj.com/articles/construction-industry-has-work-needs-more-workers-da763703), brought on as older electricians (https://www.wsj.com/articles/america-is-trying-to-electrify-there-arent-enough-electricians-4260d05b), plumbers and welders retire, is driving up the cost of labor, as many sticker-shocked homeowners embarking on repairs and renovations in recent years have found.

The median pay for new construction hires rose 5.1% to $48,089 last year. By contrast, new hires in professional services earned an annual $39,520, up 2.7% from 2022, according to data from payroll-services provider ADP.


That’s the fourth year that median annual pay for new construction hires has eclipsed earnings for new hires in both the professional services and information sectors—such as accountants or IT maintenance workers—ADP says. 

If only we had some source of people looking to train and work in blue collar jobs.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2024, 12:35:48 PM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 20, 2024, 09:53:12 PM

One border is being attacked with weapons, tanks, and soldiers.

The other one is facing people in need who are willing to do jobs no one else wants.

Hard to spot the difference, I guess. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2024, 12:38:41 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2024, 12:24:42 PM

This is what you said:
Nothing for ours?

I mean, you only have to skip to page 8 to see that the Biden budget at $17.5B is over $1B larger than either 2021 or 2022.

And then if you look at page 9 to read this:

It then goes on to list those funding initiatives, QUITE a few of which are direclty related to modernizing/improving border security technology, hiring, etc.

But go ahead. Persist in your belief. You won't read anything I linked anyway, so I know this will fall on deaf ears. As usual.

well so far they aint doing shit
fire their ass and build a wall

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2024, 12:41:12 PM

I think everyone who posts here is fine with immigration and immigrants.  Some of us, including me, would like a more ordered system to ensure the wrong types of people are not waltzing in, and to manage those who want to be here more astutely.  We can accomodate plenty of immigrants in the US, I'd like it to be done sensibly and in a controlled fashion.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 21, 2024, 12:44:53 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2024, 12:41:12 PM

I think everyone who posts here is fine with immigration and immigrants.  

oy vey

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2024, 12:48:47 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2024, 12:28:05 PM

Cliff notes version please. I have not been through all of it.

What else is in the budget? Does it include housing and such for migrants? Healthcare? Food? Clothing?

I'm genuinely curious.

If not, where does that come from?

Did Congress vote to appropriate the funds?

Honestly I haven't been through all of it, and don't plan to. It's 563 pages.

Here it is: https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/2022-03/U.S.%20Customs%20and%20Border%20Protection_Remediated.pdf

Here is the stuff summarized as being a big part of that extra billion. 

Quote

Modern Border Security Technology 

• $63.2M for Border Enforcement Coordination Network (BECN): Supports the modernization of IT systems, equipment, and services that support the planning, detection, classification, and analysis of illegal border activity, providing program confluence and database architecture enhancement. 
• $60.2M to fund three unmissionized aircraft, which will be the base aircraft for the first three Land Interdiction Multi-Role Enforcement Aircraft (MEA), as well as procure long lead time materials for the acquisition of the second and third Land Interdiction MEAs. 
• $36.7M for Common Operating Picture (COP): Funds maturation, testing, training, and transitioning to Initial Operational Capability (IOC) status for the COP installation at Douglas, Arizona USBP facility and three additional USBP locations. IOC is tentatively scheduled for the 4th quarter of FY 2023. 
• $13.5M for Integrated Surveillance Towers (IST): Establishes a program to consolidate all surveillance towers into a single program. Also supports the sustainment of 723 towers across the Northern and Southern Borders of the United States. 
• $13M for Aircraft Sensor Upgrades: Replaces obsolete, out-of-production, difficult, and expensive-to-support aircraft sensor integrated mission systems. 

Trade and Travel Enforcement and Facilitation:

• $70.3M for Combating Forced Labor: Supports requirements of the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act (UFLPA) through addition of enforcement personnel, technology, training, strategy, and outreach. This request supports hiring 300 additional positions, including 50 CBP Officers (CBPOs). 
• $41.4M for the Automated Commercial Environment (ACE): Funds incorporation of the entire Collections Entry Lifecycle in one ecosystem and the ability to utilize trade data from ACE modules will provide a holistic view for both the trade community and CBP. Also funds operations and maintenance activities. 
• $24.7M for Advanced Trade Analytics Platform (ATAP): Enables ATAP to develop, test, and deploy the Case Management modules and the development, testing, integration, and deployment of ATAP’s data platform application. 

Mission Capability and Mission Support Enhancements

• $145.4M for design and construction of two Border Patrol stations ($60.0M), AMO facilities ($23.5M), a Trade and Cargo Academy ($18.6M), the build-out of a mission support facility in Indianapolis ($8.0M), and facilities to house Office of Professional Responsibility agents requested in the 2022 Budget ($35.3M). 
• $104.8M for USBP Hiring/Training/Resiliency: Supports hiring an additional 300 BPAs ($65.3M) and basic training throughput ($29.5M). Funds will also support improvements and advances in CBP employees’ overall well-being ($10M). 
• $4.2M for USBP Intelligence Specialists: Supports hiring 33 Intelligence Specialists in FY 2023. 

Non-citizen Processing and Care 

• $129.5M for Medical Services at the Border: Funds contracted medical support to individuals in CBP custody at approximately 63 locations. Additionally, this funding supports the transition of responsibility for paying off-site medical claims for migrants in CBP custody from ICE to CBP ($31.5M), and the establishment of the Office of the Chief Medical Officer ($28.8M). 
• $26M for Unified Immigration Portal (UIP): Supports completion of Phase 4 for UIP which will enable completion of core capabilities that are necessary to prepare the program to achieve Full Operational Capability, expected in the 4 th quarter of FY 2023. Requested funding will also support the deployed Phases 1-3 of UIP. 
• $23M for Border Patrol Processing Coordinators: Funds the hiring of 300 additional Border Patrol Processing Coordinators. $17.7M for the Transportation Program: Funds transportation of non-citizens at the Southwest border. 

Three of the above initiatives indicate CBP’s ongoing work to build analytic capabilities in support of evidence-based decision making. In particular, BECN, ATAP, and UIP are examples of how CBP is prioritizing improving our database architectures, real time information sharing, and building analytic capability within the organization. However, there is still much work that needs to be done for CBP to become a data-driven enterprise, such as integrating analytic decision support into our Planning, Programming, Budgeting and Accountability process. CBP is working on identifying how that analytic support can be institutionalized and is currently formulating an enterprise-wide analytics strategy, in addition to other efforts, to support decision making that is relevant, repeatable, and defendable.

(Forgive me if my cut/paste is rough--the formatting didn't carry over nicely.)

I'm not an expert on government budgeting. I don't know if this is just proposed funding or was voted on and is actual. But these numbers are listed as part of "FY 2023 President's Budget". So for the purpose of answering 320 who suggests Biden is doing "nothing for our" border, this is at the very least what his admin was asking for. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2024, 12:49:26 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 21, 2024, 12:38:41 PM

well so far they aint doing shit
fire their ass and build a wall

You're about as fun to talk to as OAM. Different side of the aisle; same debate playbook. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2024, 12:50:46 PM

A President will forward a budget request to Congress annually.  It gets routinely described as "DOA" by the opposition.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2024, 12:52:52 PM

kakistocracy in American English
(ˌkækəˈstɑkrəsi)



government by the worst persons; a form of government in which the worst persons are in power

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2024, 12:55:22 PM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 21, 2024, 12:30:08 PM

If only we had some source of people looking to train and work in blue collar jobs.

We do, and they are not immigrants. They are kids finally getting smart and skipping useless degrees. Kids like mine.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 21, 2024, 01:01:53 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2024, 12:55:22 PM

We do, and they are not immigrants. They are kids finally getting smart and skipping useless degrees. Kids like mine.

Its good we are spending 17 billion a year to make sure inflation goes up

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2024, 01:22:52 PM

No comprende. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 21, 2024, 01:26:59 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2024, 01:22:52 PM

No comprende.

It's a union of the stuff about us spending 17 billion a year on the border plus costs are rising due to the shortage of labor

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2024, 01:37:02 PM

You need to read that WSJ article. 

The skilled labor shortage is being addressed right here at home, organically. And they don't need to take an ESL class or adapt to the culture to do so.

If immigrants are wanting to adapt, learn English, math, skills, and contribute? 

Welcome home. 

With wide OPEN arms.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 21, 2024, 02:01:40 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 21, 2024, 01:37:02 PM

If immigrants are wanting to adapt, learn English, math, skills, and contribute?

Welcome home.

With wide OPEN arms.

I wish the government agreed with you

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2024, 02:02:32 PM

I blame Brandon.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2024, 02:45:50 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2024, 12:49:26 PM

You're about as fun to talk to as OAM. Different side of the aisle; same debate playbook.

youre no bowl of cherries either

and I stand by my words

The Biden administration has done everything in its power to create the current border problem including bringing court action against the State being invaded for trying to protect its border

you are so busy trying to shelter the potted plant in offiice that you ignore the obvious

I think what Brandon is doing should be considered treason

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 21, 2024, 03:15:28 PM

Quote

I think what Brandon is doing should be considered treason

Definitely all of us supporting immigration

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2024, 03:21:57 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 21, 2024, 02:45:50 PM

youre no bowl of cherries either

and I stand by my words

The Biden administration has done everything in its power to create the current border problem including bringing court action against the State being invaded for trying to protect its border

you are so busy trying to shelter the potted plant in offiice that you ignore the obvious

I think what Brandon is doing should be considered treason

I'm honestly not interested in debating immigration. I find it a boring subject with both sides being incredibly entrenched and rarely arguing in good faith. It's about as bad of a topic as abortion. 

All I've done is pointed out that you said he's proposed $300M in spending for Ukraine's border and nothing for ours. And I showed you that you were wrong. In fact, a good portion of that $1B proposed spending is explicitly labeled as for border security. And I proved that by linking actual government documents showing the same. 

And when wrong you changed the subject to what the spending is doing--which may or may not be much. Which might be true. Just as $300M for Ukraine's border might not do much.  

But YOU made it about spending. And were wrong. And now you "stand by your words" which are new words AFTER you changed the subject. 
 
--------------

I guess I should have seen through the charade. You were never arguing about spending. You were arguing Biden is bad. On that front, I agree with you. I'm not a fan. 

But when you use statements for your argument that aren't supported by the facts, don't be surprised when someone calls you out on it. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2024, 03:53:04 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2024, 03:21:57 PM

I'm honestly not interested in debating immigration. I find it a boring subject with both sides being incredibly entrenched and rarely arguing in good faith. It's about as bad of a topic as abortion.

All I've done is pointed out that you said he's proposed $300M in spending for Ukraine's border and nothing for ours. And I showed you that you were wrong. In fact, a good portion of that $1B proposed spending is explicitly labeled as for border security. And I proved that by linking actual government documents showing the same.

And when wrong you changed the subject to what the spending is doing--which may or may not be much. Which might be true. Just as $300M for Ukraine's border might not do much. 

But YOU made it about spending. And were wrong. And now you "stand by your words" which are new words AFTER you changed the subject.
 
--------------

I guess I should have seen through the charade. You were never arguing about spending. You were arguing Biden is bad. On that front, I agree with you. I'm not a fan.

But when you use statements for your argument that aren't supported by the facts, don't be surprised when someone calls you out on it.

the money going to Ukraine is going directly to Ukraine no question

Biden's proposed budget does not have any direct tie in to stopping illegal immigration

Biden could close the border in a flash iuf he wanted to budget or no budget

again my statement was meant to show Biden's attitude of caring more about a foreign country then he does about the US

again you insist on building this straw man to win an arguement and its a smoke and mirrors approach

The American people see through all the crap Biden is pulling and come November we will be rid of his treasonous ass

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2024, 04:43:50 PM

The Ukraine aid bill passed the House.  Biden has yet to sign it.  Granted he will, once it passes the Senate, but I wouldn't call it his aid bill.  Right now it's a House aid bill.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2024, 05:00:27 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2024, 04:43:50 PM

The Ukraine aid bill passed the House.  Biden has yet to sign it.  Granted he will, once it passes the Senate, but I wouldn't call it his aid bill.  Right now it's a House aid bill.

when he signs it becomes his

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2024, 05:11:55 PM

I m not at all confident Biden will lose this election.  At the moment, I think it's virtually 50-50, but that will of course likely change.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 21, 2024, 06:29:19 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 21, 2024, 05:11:55 PM

I m not at all confident Biden will lose this election.  At the moment, I think it's virtually 50-50, but that will of course likely change.

Thats amazing to me

yep the race is neck and neck

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 21, 2024, 08:44:52 PM

We only have to worry about this for another 200 years anyway

https://www.wtae.com/article/ai-could-kill-us-in-200-years/60558545?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1HnT5_YIBxnneJAny1SaKOPYhSaCHOhjUcKJAl1aCwGtsSEI0xv2i4_8U_aem_AS7EMVd4zbfEmCelkG8Nezq4vxXWpNnh0t-BUub8DrdMdbqvlADrhMhLAF16SAN6Rw3r1-01xngw-6AvZZ32a8Pt

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2024, 09:07:16 PM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2024, 12:49:26 PM

You're about as fun to talk to as OAM. Different side of the aisle; same debate playbook.

Except that I have a brain.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2024, 09:09:35 PM

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 21, 2024, 12:20:59 PM

I backed away from the laptop - guy is nuts

You've never stared into the abyss?  I have.

(https://i.imgur.com/VCVqhHu.jpeg)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2024, 09:39:31 PM

and that makes all the difference

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on April 22, 2024, 04:53:15 AM

It occurs to me that we could spend $17 billion on border protection and still do a bad job of it. We could spend $100 billion and do a bad job. S lets not pretend that spending vast sums of money equals action. Often as the case with govt programs the opposite is true. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2024, 06:23:24 AM

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/22/heres-where-the-worlds-0point001percent-are-putting-their-money-according-to-wealth-experts.html

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 22, 2024, 08:39:37 AM

Quote from: Gigem on April 22, 2024, 04:53:15 AM

It occurs to me that we could spend $17 billion on border protection and still do a bad job of it. We could spend $100 billion and do a bad job. S lets not pretend that spending vast sums of money equals action. Often as the case with govt programs the opposite is true.

"Border protection" is essentially a large program to restrict the movement of labor. It's been pretty good at giving shady companies a cheap source of employees who can't complain.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2024, 08:43:06 AM

I view it more as a means to "vette" folks who enter the country and simply "control" or manage our borders and the stuff that comes in we don't want.  

Otherwise, we might just as well stop the hassle of immigration when we fly back into the country.

And I don't favor granting "shady companies" cheap labor.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 22, 2024, 09:08:12 AM

Quote

Otherwise, we might just as well stop the hassle of immigration when we fly back into the country.

The horror...

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2024, 09:11:09 AM

Yeah, I think folks entering the country should be checked out.  I guess that's a radical notion pretty much aligned with nearly any mainstream Democrat.

I think folks wanting a Green Card should be vetted, as well as folks who apply for citizenship.  I'm not at all in favor of "open borders".  

Or as I often see on Facebook, "boarders".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 22, 2024, 09:13:11 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 22, 2024, 09:11:09 AM

Yeah, I think folks entering the country should be checked out.  I guess that's a radical notion pretty much aligned with nearly any mainstream Democrat.

I think folks wanting a Green Card should be vetted, as well as folks who apply for citizenship.  I'm not at all in favor of "open borders". 

Or as I often see on Facebook, "boarders".

That's fine, I was just describing reality instead of stating a position. Immigration and border control are huge government restrictions on the market, and have all the costs associated with them.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2024, 09:14:32 AM

Not having them would also incur costs on "The System".  That's why every developed country has them, usually more stringent than ours.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2024, 09:16:04 AM

boarders reminds me of squatters

when did this become a thing?
does it help to have a no trespassing sign at the gate?

around here if someone returns home and a stranger is in the house, the stranger might get shot.
at least the sheriff would be called and the stranger arrested if they refuse to leave

or is this not the case anymore in any state?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 22, 2024, 09:17:38 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 22, 2024, 09:14:32 AM

Not having them would also incur costs on "The System".  That's why every developed country has them, usually more stringent than ours.

That's the conventional wisdom at least. I definitely question whether we are getting any bang for our buck

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 22, 2024, 09:19:07 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on April 22, 2024, 09:16:04 AM

boarders reminds me of squatters

when did this become a thing?
does it help to have a no trespassing sign at the gate?

around here if someone returns home and a stranger is in the house, the stranger might get shot.
at least the sheriff would be called and the stranger arrested if they refuse to leave

or is this not the case anymore in any state?

Feels like more urban legend than anything. Where it can come into play is in places with lots of rentals and leases and subleases. Imagine you are in a sublease and paying rent and then the owner of the property says get the hell out, you didn't have any agreement with me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2024, 10:07:37 AM

Some trespassers may not have to wait a full five years to claim adverse possession against your property.

Iowa Code § 560.2 allows squatters to pursue a color of title claim one year after they perform valuable improvements on the real estate they occupy. Similarly, if you didn’t pay your property taxes for two consecutive years and the civil trespasser pays the dues for you, the courts will allow the squatter to claim color of title earlier.

The Five Elements of Adverse Possession
Squatters must not only occupy your land, to secure a color of title, the civil trespassers must also satisfy five legal requirements before bringing their adverse possession claims to court:

Hostility. A simple occupation of the premise with or without awareness of the trespassing or a good faith occupation where the intruder honestly believes that he/she has a legal right to live there.
Actual Possession. Squatter must be physically present on the premise and maintain the property as if it was their own during the adverse possession period.
Open and Notorious. The occupation must be open and obvious (not hidden) where the public and the landowner can witness the squatting during a reasonable investigation.
Exclusivity. The civil trespasser must hold exclusive possession and not share property ownership with other intruders.
Continuous Possession. Intruders may not interrupt their occupation. The adverse possession clock stops ticking as soon as a squatter reasonably abandons your property.


https://iowaprobatelitigation.com/essential-guide-for-evicting-squatters-in-iowa-why-you-need-to-act-quickly/ (https://iowaprobatelitigation.com/essential-guide-for-evicting-squatters-in-iowa-why-you-need-to-act-quickly/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 22, 2024, 10:20:09 AM

The Sooners take pride in their squatting

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2024, 10:30:33 AM

and their cheating

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 22, 2024, 10:48:39 AM

"If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying."

-Barry $witzer

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2024, 11:00:49 AM

A thing I notice often on "the news" is some relatively minor rare event blown up into some massive threat to western civilization.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2024, 12:11:28 PM

Such as?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2024, 12:18:44 PM

The case in point, these folks squatting in houses.  It's real, but it's minor, infrequent, rare, and yet it's presented as a major issue.

I see something about some trans person doing whatever almost daily as if it too is a major problem ruining women's sports.  It's real, but rare.

Then there is this WNBA player who is very good but signed for a lot less than NBA players, duh.  It gets blown way out of relevance in reality.

I could go on, "news" about EVs and how folks don't like them.  OK, some folks don't like them, film at 11.  Don't buy one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2024, 12:32:06 PM

Here is perhaps another example:

Supreme Court will take up the legal fight over ghost guns, firearms without serial numbers (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/22/supreme-court-will-take-up-the-legal-fight-over-ghost-guns-firearms-without-serial-numbers.html)

I don't THINK "ghost guns" are often used to commit crimes.  These are "kit guns", not something your usual gang member would bother with.  Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's some significant causer of crime.

But, these serial numbers generally aren't registered anywhere, in most states, anyway.  If they find a gun at a crime scene, the serial number can't be tracked back to an individual except the original owner, if that, with few exceptions.  And of course, generally the shooter will not leave the weapon behind anyway except in TV shows.

But, you can't look up some serial number and know who owned it, with some exceptions.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2024, 12:37:00 PM

you can find who sold it originally

not that it matters most of the time, but there could be a pattern and lead to something

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2024, 12:43:29 PM

Yes, with some effort, you can locate the FFL who originally sold it, and if their records are retained (20 year requirement), you can determine a name they sold it to.

You might even find that person.  If it was used to commit a crime, that original owner is likely to claim "I lost it", or "It was stolen", or even "I sold it to some dude.".

I think most guns used to commit crimes are either stolen or from straw purchases.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2024, 12:53:20 PM

All of mine are legit and can be traced to me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2024, 12:54:30 PM

Anti-Gun Senator Kevin De Leon Makes a Fool of Himself (youtube.com) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJmFEv6BHM0)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2024, 01:23:01 PM

most Senators make a fool of themselves in short order

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2024, 01:37:15 PM

Usually not to that degree.   

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2024, 01:51:15 PM

MELBOURNE, Australia (AP) — Papua New Guinea’s Prime Minister James Marape accused Joe Biden of disparaging the South Pacific island nation by implying that an uncle of the U.S. president had been eaten by “cannibals” there during World War II.

Biden’s comments offended a key strategic ally as China moves to increase its influence in the region.

The president spoke at a Pennsylvania war memorial last week about his Army Air Corps aviator uncle Second Lt. Ambrose J. Finnegan Jr., whom he said was shot down over Papua New Guinea, which was a theater of heavy fighting.

“They never found the body because there used to be — there were a lot of cannibals for real in that part of New Guinea,” Biden said, referring to the country’s main island.

Marape said in a statement on Sunday that Biden “appeared to imply his uncle was eaten by cannibals.”

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2024, 02:02:24 PM

He’s not now a Senator.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2024, 02:47:36 PM

You just don't say that kind of stuff. You just don't. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2024, 02:49:14 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 22, 2024, 02:02:24 PM

He’s not now a Senator. 

so, De Leon aspires to be president?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 22, 2024, 03:02:00 PM

Yeah, it's rude to talk about shithole countries like that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2024, 03:04:35 PM

They probably think the US is a shithole country. Some of our own citizens think the same.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2024, 03:08:13 PM

they obviously think our esteemed leader is a shit head

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2024, 04:43:29 PM

I'm sure @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) is THRILLED with this other news.

(https://i.imgur.com/Y5QLJ5A.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 22, 2024, 04:49:47 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2024, 12:53:20 PM

All of mine are legit and can be traced to me.

All of mine are legit and none can be traced to me. :)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 22, 2024, 04:59:37 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2024, 04:43:29 PM

I'm sure @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) is THRILLED with this other news.

(https://i.imgur.com/Y5QLJ5A.png)

FF posted in the weather thread, and I almost replied. 

It's actually not a bad route for it, and they can follow the I-15 pretty much the whole way so most of the hard bit related to figuring out where it'll go, acquiring the land, and all that stuff is done/easy.

I don't know what it'll cost and if it'll get anywhere near the ridership numbers they need to make it work financially. My guess is that it'll have problems with that side of things, as is pretty common. 

I don't think it would make sense for me to ride it. I looked it up and I can take a Metrolink from the Irvine station (close) and either route it through downtown LA (3-3.5 hrs to Rancho Cucamonga) or route it through San Bernardino (2-2.5 hrs) to get there. Given that the portion of the drive that is most horrible--especially on a Friday afternoon which would be the most likely time I'd go to Vegas--is basically from here to right past Rancho Cucamonga, a little over 2 hours of just sitting on Metrolink isn't horrible. But I don't like those options as basically either one has me making two train swaps, hauling luggage at each one, etc. I'd personally rather drive or fly. Honestly I hate Vegas anyway and might go there once every 3-4 years if there's something I want to see, so it's pretty much a moot point for me. 

But for anyone who lives in the most populous corridors of LA, it's pretty much a straight Metrolink shot out to Rancho, and then hop one train to Vegas. Pretty easy. 

And I'll bet the bar car will make bank on that routing :72:

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2024, 09:14:45 AM

PARIS (AP) — Five people, including a child, died while trying to cross the English Channel from France to the U.K., French authorities said Tuesday, just hours after the British government approved a migrant bill to deport some of those who entered the country illegally to Rwanda.

The prefecture responsible for the north of France said in a statement authorities spotted several boats, packed with migrants, off the coast of Pas-de-Calais, attempting to depart in the early morning.

Several French navy ships, including assistance and rescue tug Abeille Normandie, intervened to rescue “a very overcrowded boat carrying more than one hundred people on board,” the statement emailed to The Associated Press said.


This came only hours after British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak’s latest effort to send some migrants to Rwanda finally won approval from Parliament. The U.K. government plans to deport some of those who enter the country illegally as a deterrent to migrants who risk their lives in leaky, inflatable boats in hopes that they will be able to claim asylum once they reach Britain.

Human rights groups have described the legislation as inhumane and cruel. Both the United Nations refugee agency and the Council of Europe called on the U.K. Tuesday to rethink its plans for fears they could damage international cooperation on tackling the global migrant crisis.

Migrants trying to cross the busy English Channel face drownings and sinking among other deadly incidents, often aboard crowded boats.

An estimated 30,000 people made the crossing in 2023, according to U.K. government figures.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2024, 09:22:44 AM

The problem for me on such trips is this is listed as a 4 hour drive, I realize traffic and where you are in LA can make that much longer.  But, if I leave early, I can drive 5 hours easily enough.  At 270 miles, it would take about 8 gallons of gas in my car.  So, in California, that is probably about $40, plus wear and tear.

OK, if traffic is just plain horrible, that could alter my calculus.

But there is also convenience in having your personal car with you.

I kinda look at Brightline in Florida where traffic can be really bad also to see how they are doing.  So far, it's no better than "OK".

Florida’s High-Speed Brightline Cuts 2024 Ridership Projections Again - Bloomberg (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-18/florida-s-high-speed-brightline-cuts-2024-ridership-projections-by-600-000)

Brightline’s high-speed hype machine hits another snag, slashes ridership forecasts (again) | The Capitolist (https://thecapitolist.com/brightlines-high-speed-hype-machine-hits-another-snag-slashes-ridership-forecasts-again/)

At least this is private though it gets subsidies from the Feds. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2024, 09:24:54 AM

A new laser-based propulsion technique developed by researchers at the Harbin Engineering University in China could help the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) build silent yet superfast submarines in the future.

The technology could also power underwater missiles and torpedoes, a South China Morning Post (SCMP) report said.

The concept of underwater laser propulsion isn’t new.  Japanese researchers first considered it more than twenty years ago. In principle, the technology works fairly simply.


Lasers are used to generate plasma inside water, which is then used to make a detonation wave by plasma expansion. The detonation wave is used to propel a craft or weapon ahead.

The greatest hurdle, though, was the application. Since detonation waves spread from a single point to all directions, scientists found it impossible to get the detonation wave to generate a force in a specific direction. This meant little progress was made on this concept until the Chinese funded extensive research.

Thrust of a commercial jet engine
A research team led by Ge Yang, a professor at the School of Engineering at Harbin University, has now found a way to improve the efficiency of laser propellers using a coating of optical fibers – also referred to as underwater fiber laser-induced plasma detonation wave propulsion.

Using this approach, the researchers claim to be able to generate 70,000 newtons of thrust using just two megawatts of laser power. The thrust generated is similar to that of a commercial jet engine.


In addition to generating thrust, the laser also vaporizes the seawater close to the vessel, creating bubbles on the submarine’s surface and reducing water resistance. This phenomenon, known as supercavitation, could potentially allow submarines to travel at supersonic speeds underwater.

More importantly, since the propulsion system is not mechanized, the submarine will not generate any noise, adding to its stealth.

Research drawing US ire
To solve the problem of the detonation wave, researchers have previously proposed using working media—tiny spherical particles that travel at a high speed in one direction and, per Newton’s laws, exert an opposing force on the submarine, propelling it.


Experiments attempted using working media and a one-watt laser generated only a small fraction of thrust than expected and were ineffective as a propulsion method. However, the laser engine designed by Ge’s team improved the output by up to four orders of magnitude.

The researchers used a device that resembled a gun barrel and adjusted its shape and internal structure to minimize the energy loss associated with the use of constraining devices.

The SCMP report added that a pair of such barrels were used to bombard the working medium particles. The protruding structures inside them reduced internal friction between shock waves.

A nuclear reactor on a submarine generates 150 MW of power, which is sufficient to power such a laser propulsion system. However, researchers still need to work on other components, such as heat dissipation of optical fibers and durability of the equipment in high salinity environments, before the tech can be transferred to real-world scenarios.

When ready, the same technology could also power a range of underwater projectiles, missiles, and torpedoes.

The recurrent output of high-end research from Harbin University in naval warfare has prompted blockades and sanctions on 30,000 students and staff associated with the educational institution from the US, the SCMP report added.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2024, 12:29:39 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/IO2JILN.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2024, 01:11:22 PM

Quite the shit show going on at college campuses around the country lately.

I wonder what the summer will bring? Hopefully not shades of 2020.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2024, 01:17:20 PM

I think the bad stuff is at a handful of mostly NE colleges.  Like most things, it attracts more coverage than universities with no or small protests happening.  Below looks like a pretty small "mostly peaceful" march, with no impact on anything.

Protestors call out UGA administration in ‘Shut it down for Palestine’ protest | Campus News | redandblack.com (https://www.redandblack.com/uganews/protestors-call-out-uga-administration-in-shut-it-down-for-palestine-protest/article_effc6e50-7f80-11ee-9e20-733b0e4aac45.html#:~:text=the Palestinian people.-,The march%2C rally and walkout were part of an international,Students for Justice in Palestine.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 23, 2024, 01:19:01 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2024, 12:53:20 PM

All of mine are legit and can be traced to me.

All of mine are legit, but only some can be traced back to me as the people that originally purchased them are deceased. I do have a few that I bought from an FFL that could be traced to me. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2024, 01:22:46 PM

My point is a gun left at the scene of the crime is unlikely to be traceable for obvious reasons.  

And if somehow they trace it to the listed owner, it's a bit of evidence, but not nearly enough.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2024, 01:24:46 PM

I now remember that one of mine cannot be traced to me. I got it from my son. Not sure where he got it - probably from a show in Wisconsin.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2024, 01:32:52 PM

It is likely he bought it at a gun show from an FFL.  About 2/3rds of gun show vendors are FFLs, usually.  Another portion sells accessories, not guns, and most of the rest trade in antique guns, which don't require the FFL.

One of mine I bought from a friend, I don't even recall his name.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2024, 01:34:11 PM

I'll find out. This was over 10 years ago.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 23, 2024, 01:35:00 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 23, 2024, 01:22:46 PM

My point is a gun left at the scene of the crime is unlikely to be traceable for obvious reasons. 

And if somehow they trace it to the listed owner, it's a bit of evidence, but not nearly enough.

A gun that was used to kill 2 Burnsville cops and a firefighter was traced back to the girlfriend of the perp, who is now facing federal straw buyer charges. Dakota County is also looking into potential accessory before the fact charges.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2024, 01:37:01 PM

Sure, it happens, but it's rare.  The girl friend is in trouble, and hopefully they have enough evidence on the perp to charge him.

She may claim he took it from her, she didn't know about it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2024, 01:40:05 PM

Burnsville shooting: Minnesota mourns after 2 police officers, 1 firefighter killed | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/officers-medic-shot-killed-burnsville-minnesota-76ae1cd7362b4bf3bca4e9598f9a968f)

If that is the case in point, the gun registration number was not relevant to the investigation.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2024, 01:45:10 PM

Quote from: GopherRock on April 23, 2024, 01:35:00 PM

A gun that was used to kill 2 Burnsville cops and a firefighter was traced back to the girlfriend of the perp, who is now facing federal straw buyer charges. Dakota County is also looking into potential accessory before the fact charges.

He left it at the scene? I guess anyone dumb enough to kill two cops is dumb enough to do that too.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2024, 01:52:46 PM

No, he committed suicide apparently, or so it is reported.  The registration number on the firearm is not material.  It was a domestic dispute.  After negotiations, the perp opened first and killed three men, and then himself.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2024, 01:54:01 PM

BCA Superintendent Drew Evans said Sunday that Burnsville police were called to the home around 1:50 a.m. Sunday about a “domestic situation where a man was reported to be armed and barricaded with family members in the home.” That included seven children ages 2 to 15 years. Evans declined to say which resident called. Arriving officers “spent quite a bit of time” negotiating with Gooden, he said.

At some point — he declined to specify when — Gooden opened fire, killing the two officers and the firefighter. Another officer, Sgt. Adam Medlicott, survived with injuries that were not life-threatening. He was released from a hospital and was recovering at home Monday, the city said.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2024, 02:07:55 PM

Omar’s daughter says she was sprayed with ‘chemical weapons’ during protest | The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/education/4615345-omar-daughter-says-she-was-sprayed-with-chemical-weapons-during-protest/)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 23, 2024, 02:15:27 PM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 23, 2024, 01:19:01 PM

All of mine are legit, but only some can be traced back to me as the people that originally purchased them are deceased. I do have a few that I bought from an FFL that could be traced to me.

Yeah that's why I say all of mine are legit, and none can be traced to me.  They're all given to me by relatives who are deceased.

Although I'm considering buying a new handgun that would put me "on the record." 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Riffraft on April 23, 2024, 02:15:37 PM

My only gun was owned by my grandfather (don't know how he got it) then my father and now me.  Unless it was registered by my grandfather, couldn't be traced to me.  And even with that, no way to know who received the gun after my grandfather died (fair number of options)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2024, 02:28:25 PM

Indonesia volcano: How Ruang eruption could impact weather and climate | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/23/climate/indonesia-volcano-eruption-weather-impact/index.html)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2024, 04:18:37 PM

Fundraiser by Kelly Jones : Fallen of Lima Company 3 25 - Mission Hometowns (gofundme.com) (https://www.gofundme.com/f/fallen-of-lima-company-3-25-mission-hometowns?attribution_id=sl:aa77a9fc-2a95-465b-bc57-00bef19b29c5&utm_campaign=m_pd+share-sheet&utm_content=off&utm_medium=copy_link_spp&utm_source=customer)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 23, 2024, 04:19:10 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 23, 2024, 01:52:46 PM

No, he committed suicide apparently, or so it is reported.  The registration number on the firearm is not material.  It was a domestic dispute.  After negotiations, the perp opened first and killed three men, and then himself.

 It was a domestic dispute in which the perp was unable to legally own firearms. Died by his own hand after shooting the cops and fireman.

Very sad situation all the way around.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2024, 04:34:26 PM

Mentally ill?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 23, 2024, 04:37:08 PM

CDawg.  

I thought it was forbotten, according to you, to discuss anything that was not a threat to western civilization?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2024, 04:38:41 PM

You can pretty much discuss anything you want in this thread, hopefully with civility.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2024, 04:42:36 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 23, 2024, 04:18:37 PM

Fundraiser by Kelly Jones : Fallen of Lima Company 3 25 - Mission Hometowns (gofundme.com) (https://www.gofundme.com/f/fallen-of-lima-company-3-25-mission-hometowns?attribution_id=sl:aa77a9fc-2a95-465b-bc57-00bef19b29c5&utm_campaign=m_pd+share-sheet&utm_content=off&utm_medium=copy_link_spp&utm_source=customer)

(https://i.imgur.com/7WLcxUa.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 23, 2024, 04:45:53 PM

Hard to believe we are coming up on 20 years that it happened. Damn.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 24, 2024, 10:54:58 AM

I will be following this closely. I saw it in some of the Chicago news feeds I get, but they are paywall. Just saw it come across on Fox.

Chicago native says residents livid over liberal mayor's new migrant funding, ready to vote for Trump | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/media/chicago-native-says-residents-livid-liberal-mayor-new-migrant-funding-ready-vote-trump)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 24, 2024, 06:43:39 PM

Recent polling suggests that if Biden wins Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, he wins the election.  If Trump wins even one of those he wins.  The other 47 states are polling at >6% one way or the other.  Hell, the only three that are even single digits are Arizona, Georgia and Nevada, where Trump still has a ~7-8% lead.

I'm not overturn the Electoral College guy.  The founder established a republic for a reason, but I do think we need to figure out something when 47 states are essentially decided 7 months out, simply due to the number of people who are solid red or solid blue, candidates be damned

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 24, 2024, 06:48:28 PM

Just have the candidates do an arm-wrestling contest.  Then Mike Judge will replace Nostradamus as the most famed prognosticator, just ahead of Punxsutawney Phil (Idiocracy nod).

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2024, 06:50:28 PM

Georgia was a lot closer a month ago. And might be in November. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 24, 2024, 06:52:27 PM

Quote from: ELA on April 24, 2024, 06:43:39 PM

Recent polling suggests that if Biden wins Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, he wins the election.  If Trump wins even one of those he wins.  The other 47 states are polling at >6% one way or the other.  Hell, the only three that are even single digits are Arizona, Georgia and Nevada, where Trump still has a ~7-8% lead.

I'm not overturn the Electoral College guy.  The founder established a republic for a reason, but I do think we need to figure out something when 47 states are essentially decided 7 months out, simply due to the number of people who are solid red or solid blue, candidates be damned

Voters often vote for a party and not the man. So what.  If elections are fair you will never change this. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 24, 2024, 06:52:59 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on April 24, 2024, 06:50:28 PM

Georgia was a lot closer a month ago. And might be in November.

He has dropped recently in general polling, but really only in widening the gap in already solidly blue states

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 24, 2024, 06:53:20 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 24, 2024, 06:52:27 PM

Voters often vote for a party and not the man. So what.  If elections are fair you will never change this.

The fact that a party candidate looks identical in every state is a problem.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 24, 2024, 09:20:52 PM

Quote from: ELA on April 24, 2024, 06:53:20 PM

The fact that a party candidate looks identical in every state is a problem.

its only a problem if you cant out vote him

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 24, 2024, 09:29:56 PM

Nope.  It's a problem that we have a bunch of identical awful candidates running on the same national platform, 90% of which has no bearing on the day to day life of their constituents

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 24, 2024, 10:22:24 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 24, 2024, 09:20:52 PM

its only a problem if you cant out vote him

Central Ohio needs labor and all we get nationally (and in Ohio) is how bad immigration is

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 24, 2024, 10:26:02 PM

Quote from: longhorn320 on April 24, 2024, 09:20:52 PM

its only a problem if you cant out vote him

Great case against a democracy.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Gigem on April 24, 2024, 10:42:43 PM

I don’t know what’s scarier, if Biden wins, or Trump. Still can’t believe this is the best we can do as a country. I don’t care for him as President, but I might just vote for RFK Jr. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: ELA on April 24, 2024, 11:05:55 PM

Quote from: Gigem on April 24, 2024, 10:42:43 PM

I don’t know what’s scarier, if Biden wins, or Trump.

Yes

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Mdot21 on April 24, 2024, 11:23:10 PM

Quote from: Gigem on April 24, 2024, 10:42:43 PM

I don’t know what’s scarier, if Biden wins, or Trump. Still can’t believe this is the best we can do as a country. I don’t care for him as President, but I might just vote for RFK Jr.

Trump was basically a run of the mil Republican who had a pretty mild Presidency despite 9 months of COVID and despite the intelligence community actively trying to sabotage him- and he actually did a pretty decent job of going after China on trade, repairing relations with the Saudis that had become strained under Obama, and of keeping the US out of any new disastrous foreign entanglements. Whatever one thinks of Trump, it is just a cold hard fact that he was a far more effective leader and vastly superior President to this f*cking sh*t head senile incompetent retard who can't even walk without falling over, sh*ts his diapers every 3rd sentence, and thinks his uncle was eaten by cannibals.

RFK Jr would be a great President imo. Unfortunately the Democratic party has done everything in it's power to subvert and sabotage him instead of ditching President Shits His Diapers and putting it's support fully behind RFK Jr. And if he ever did somehow get elected, dude better watch his ass 24/7 because CIA will probably come for him like they definitely came for his uncle and possibly his father.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2024, 06:25:19 AM

Being from Chicago, I was a "never Obama" guy, and I still am. The former community organizer has mansions everywhere. He was corrupt then, and he is worse now. "Made" in Chicago. That's all you need to know.

He's in his third term right now, as the puppet master. He has to go.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MrNubbz on April 25, 2024, 06:47:18 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 24, 2024, 10:22:24 PM

Central Ohio needs labor and all we get nationally (and in Ohio) is how bad immigration is

Where are all these labor Jobs? I mean ones with a living wage,even Amazon hasn't been hiring lately

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2024, 07:26:06 AM

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 24, 2024, 10:26:02 PM

Great case against a democracy. 

Good thing we aren't one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2024, 07:27:29 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on April 24, 2024, 10:22:24 PM

Central Ohio needs labor and all we get nationally (and in Ohio) is how bad immigration is

Lazy parents need to get their lazy kids off their asses and phones and joysticks and get them to work.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 25, 2024, 08:07:55 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on Today at 06:47:18 AM

Where are all these labor Jobs? I mean ones with a living wage,even Amazon hasn't been hiring lately

I can't swing a cat without hitting a help wanted sign in Columbus

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 25, 2024, 08:13:11 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on Today at 07:27:29 AM

Lazy parents need to get their lazy kids off their asses and phones and joysticks and get them to work.

Teenagers are what ruined Chipotle

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2024, 08:20:03 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on Today at 08:07:55 AM

I can't swing a cat without hitting a help wanted sign in Columbus

It's the same mostly everywhere.

Some people have simply left the workforce in favor of sitting at home (Covid), or they are doing odd jobs for cash (we see a lot of the latter here, with the construction still booming and contractors/labor hard to find - many of them are working for builders.). Odd jobs like painting, tree trimming, power washing, lawn care, car detailing, etc.

These "odd jobs" people are making a lot of money. Trust me. I know.

As far as immigrants, you can't just give them a job and say "go!".

They need to learn the language and adapt to the culture. They also need to find housing (and not at taxpayer expense for more than 3-6 months, perhaps). They also need to be tested for health and immunized. It's not as simple as you like to make it. There are also many who do not want to play by the rules. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2024, 08:20:36 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on Today at 08:13:11 AM

Teenagers are what ruined Chipotle

A lot of people were ruined by "Friends".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 25, 2024, 08:23:52 AM

Quote

As far as immigrants, you can't just give them a job and say "go!".

They need to learn the language and adapt to the culture. They also need to find housing (and not at taxpayer expense for more than 3-6 months, perhaps). They also need to be tested for health and immunized. It's not as simple as you like to make it. There are also many who do not want to play by the rules. 

People can be pretty resourceful when you give them freedom. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2024, 08:28:42 AM

Quote from: MrNubbz on Today at 06:47:18 AM

Where are all these labor Jobs? I mean ones with a living wage,even Amazon hasn't been hiring lately

What is a "living wage" and how is that defined?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 25, 2024, 08:40:53 AM

Quote

They need to learn the language and adapt to the culture. They also need to find housing (and not at taxpayer expense for more than 3-6 months, perhaps). They also need to be tested for health and immunized. It's not as simple as you like to make it. There are also many who do not want to play by the rules. 

If I hire someone to mow my lawn, I don't need them to speak much English, or have a house, and I don't care about their immunizations. I care about them mowing my lawn.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2024, 08:45:14 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on Today at 08:40:53 AM

If I hire someone to mow my lawn, I don't need them to speak much English, or have a house, and I don't care about their immunizations. I care about them mowing my lawn.

That's not a living wage, and why would you not care about immunization or their housing?

If they are out and about carrying infectious diseases, that spread doesn't bother you at all? Sleeping on the street doesn't bother you at all?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2024, 08:46:03 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on Today at 08:23:52 AM

People can be pretty resourceful when you give them freedom.

Being resourceful doesn't always equate to a positive. Lots of bad people are resourceful.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 25, 2024, 08:48:33 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on Today at 08:45:14 AM

That's not a living wage, and why would you not care about immunization or their housing?

If they are out and about carrying infectious diseases, that spread doesn't bother you at all? Sleeping on the street doesn't bother you at all?

All people carry infectious diseases. If I worried that much about them, I would never leave my house. Presumably, they are pretty motivated to not sleep on the street if they are mowing my lawn for money. I don't get how keeping them out of the country does anyone any good. I can't find anyone to mow my lawn, they are stuck somewhere they don't want to be, and we are both poorer for it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 25, 2024, 08:49:29 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on Today at 08:46:03 AM

Being resourceful doesn't always equate to a positive. Lots of bad people are resourceful.

Immigrants are pretty reliably good at being resourceful. This has been shown by pretty much everyone who studies them to any degree. It makes sense, because lazy shiftless people don't up and move to other countries with little assistance.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2024, 08:52:36 AM

My wife pays for maids to come clean the place every two weeks.  The ladies are all Hispanic, usually only one of the trio speaks English at all.  My wife speaks a bit of Spanish.  She finds it useful to be able to converse with them about what to do, and not do.

I have no idea of their status.  One of them can drive, it's difficult to get a DL here as an illegal, but I'm sure some manage it.  

I'm surprised that anyone would be for completely open borders.  I'm certainly not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2024, 08:58:13 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on Today at 08:49:29 AM

Immigrants are pretty reliably good at being resourceful. This has been shown by pretty much everyone who studies them to any degree. It makes sense, because lazy shiftless people don't up and move to other countries with little assistance.

The problem right now is that we don't know who is here, or why.

Some truly want to be here and become productive members of our society. Great for them, and great for us.

That is not all of them and that's what bothers me. I've done a lot of studying too. Most here have.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 25, 2024, 09:03:14 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on Today at 08:52:36 AM

My wife pays for maids to come clean the place every two weeks.  The ladies are all Hispanic, usually only one of the trio speaks English at all.  My wife speaks a bit of Spanish.  She finds it useful to be able to converse with them about what to do, and not do.

I have no idea of their status.  One of them can drive, it's difficult to get a DL here as an illegal, but I'm sure some manage it. 

I'm surprised that anyone would be for completely open borders.  I'm certainly not.

I'm surprised anyone would be for completely closed borders. I'm certainly not.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 25, 2024, 09:04:34 AM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on Today at 08:58:13 AM

The problem right now is that we don't know who is here, or why.

Some truly want to be here and become productive members of our society. Great for them, and great for us.

That is not all of them and that's what bothers me. I've done a lot of studying too. Most here have.

You can say the same about anyone who travels to Florida from South Dakota. A lot of our government policy is built around knowing everything about everyone, which certainly bothers me.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2024, 09:07:00 AM

A person from South Dakota, presuming they are here legally in the first place, is "known" to the government, with few exceptions.  He or she may have a criminal record if they are a criminal.  They will probably have a school record, a work record, etc. etc. etc.  They won't be a complete unknown.  If they commit a crime in Florida, the police will access those records which will be probative.

I think the notion we should have completely open borders is absurd.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 25, 2024, 09:14:41 AM

No one is for open borders.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 25, 2024, 09:16:29 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on Today at 09:07:00 AM

A person from South Dakota, presuming they are here legally in the first place, is "known" to the government, with few exceptions.  He or she may have a criminal record if they are a criminal.  They will probably have a school record, a work record, etc. etc. etc.  They won't be a complete unknown.  If they commit a crime in Florida, the police will access those records which will be probative.

I think the notion we should have completely open borders is absurd.

Maybe, if they reported whatever crime, and all entities paid for the reporting and access. But why should anyone be restricted from going to Florida based on someone else committing a crime?

I think the notion we should have completely closed borders is absurd.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 25, 2024, 09:18:49 AM

well, the border is not closed

so, nothing to worry about

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 25, 2024, 09:20:10 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on Today at 09:18:49 AM

well, the border is not closed

so, nothing to worry about

Nor is it open. The neither open nor closed border. Like Schrodinger's cat.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2024, 09:20:32 AM

The southern border is porous, for sure, but our borders at airports etc. are most certainly not open.

I waited an hour in the car to transit from Canada to he US last year.  

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 25, 2024, 09:26:07 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on Today at 09:03:14 AM

I'm surprised anyone would be for completely closed borders. I'm certainly not.

Who has proposed closed borders? All I have heard from people opposed to open borders is that we control who and how many come into our country and that they do so legally. I cannot fathom that you would be opposed to that. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on April 25, 2024, 09:29:13 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on Today at 09:20:10 AM

Nor is it open. The neither open nor closed border. Like Schrodinger's cat.

I find that take amusing as there are about 5,000 - 7,000 people illegally entering our country on a daily basis. Since Jan 20, 2021, I have seen estimates of at least 10 Million people have illegally entered the country. If that is not evidence of an open border, I don't know what is. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: FearlessF on April 25, 2024, 09:32:05 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on Today at 09:20:32 AM

The southern border is porous, for sure, but our borders at airports etc. are most certainly not open.

I waited an hour in the car to transit from Canada to he US last year. 

but, you were allowed in.  At the airport and the with the car

apparently those borders were open

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 25, 2024, 09:33:09 AM

I suppose open borders for legal citizens is a pretty normal and natural thing.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2024, 09:36:23 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on Today at 09:16:29 AM

I think the notion we should have completely closed borders is absurd.

I completely agree, it's absurd and impossible.  

I also think to have completely OPEN borders is absurd.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2024, 09:37:23 AM

Quote from: FearlessF on Today at 09:32:05 AM

but, you were allowed in.  At the airport and the with the car

apparently those borders were open

That isn't what I consider "open", like a store is "open".  I can walk in with no interference of any kind.  I would use the term "controlled".

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 25, 2024, 10:04:36 AM

Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on Today at 09:26:07 AM

Who has proposed closed borders? All I have heard from people opposed to open borders is that we control who and how many come into our country and that they do so legally. I cannot fathom that you would be opposed to that.

(https://i.imgur.com/m9Hopag.png)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 25, 2024, 10:06:34 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on Today at 09:36:23 AM

I completely agree, it's absurd and impossible. 

I also think to have completely OPEN borders is absurd.

I wonder how anyone ever came to our country in the first place

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2024, 10:29:16 AM

Why Brandon keeps our southern border open


https://thedailybs.com/2024/04/24/how-bidens-paroles-of-migrants-could-prompt-illegal-voter-registration/?utm_campaign=james&utm_content=4-25-24%20Daily%20AM&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_source=Get%20response&utm_term=email

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 25, 2024, 10:31:24 AM

WTF is Brandon?

And is that source really called "The Daily BS" ???  Just sayin.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2024, 10:40:44 AM

Quote from: utee94 on Today at 10:31:24 AM

WTF is Brandon?

And is that source really called "The Daily BS" ???  Just sayin.

Brandon comes from an old joke I'll post a link

This article was written by Fred Lucas who reports from The Daily Signal

Brandon link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jftcx3Nt8fw

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 25, 2024, 10:50:56 AM

The joke isn't funny when you have to explain it.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 25, 2024, 10:56:38 AM

Quote from: MaximumSam on Today at 10:06:34 AM

I wonder how anyone ever came to our country in the first place

I similarly wonder whether or not times have changed over the past 300-400 years?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: utee94 on April 25, 2024, 10:57:46 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on Today at 10:50:56 AM

The joke isn't funny when you have to explain it.

It was never funny anyway.  Childish and stupid.

No different than the other side with their "orange man" hysteria.  

A bunch of kids playing at being adults.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2024, 10:59:39 AM

According to my uncle, my forefathers came over in 1620 and duly checked in at immigration in Jamestown. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2024, 11:03:43 AM

Quote from: GopherRock on Today at 10:50:56 AM

The joke isn't funny when you have to explain it.

We Texans are always polite to another Texan

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 25, 2024, 11:05:01 AM

Quote from: utee94 on Today at 10:57:46 AM

It was never funny anyway.  Childish and stupid.

No different than the other side with their "orange man" hysteria. 

A bunch of kids playing at being adults.

Witless people think it's witty. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2024, 11:05:50 AM

Quote from: utee94 on Today at 10:57:46 AM

It was never funny anyway.  Childish and stupid.

No different than the other side with their "orange man" hysteria. 

A bunch of kids playing at being adults.

why utee didnt you know we are all children at heart

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2024, 11:07:02 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on Today at 11:05:01 AM

Witless people think it's witty.

some people just dont have the mental snap you have

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2024, 11:12:38 AM

did any of you see the latest Brandon flub

He read his speech from his teleprompter and included instructions from the speech writer

He said "Four more Years, pause"

It was a Ron Burgundy moment

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 25, 2024, 11:13:01 AM

Quote from: longhorn320 on Today at 11:07:02 AM

some people just dont have the mental snap you have

It's ok. Honestly, it's one of the things I admire about you. You never let your limitations affect your confidence. 

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2024, 11:17:23 AM

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on Today at 11:13:01 AM

It's ok. Honestly, it's one of the things I admire about you. You never let your limitations affect your confidence.

Well lets just say Ive grown used to your insults

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2024, 11:46:01 AM

I was wondering what was up with the S&P today. Now I know.

https://www.wsj.com/economy/central-banking/us-gdp-economy-first-quarter-2024-1675df05?st=ejrgbggmk99fzqe&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2024, 11:53:09 AM

I suppose the notion of some completely open border is about the same as the notion of having no nation states at all.  

European countries have quite strict border controls of course.  Schengen Zone and all that.  Imagine if all of that were completely dissolved.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: MaximumSam on April 25, 2024, 12:01:04 PM

Quote from: utee94 on Today at 10:56:38 AM

I similarly wonder whether or not times have changed over the past 300-400 years?

The Know Nothings knew

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2024, 12:05:17 PM

Quote from: ELA on April 24, 2024, 06:43:39 PM

Recent polling suggests that if Biden wins Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, he wins the election.  If Trump wins even one of those he wins.  The other 47 states are polling at >6% one way or the other.  Hell, the only three that are even single digits are Arizona, Georgia and Nevada, where Trump still has a ~7-8% lead.

I'm not overturn the Electoral College guy.  The founder established a republic for a reason, but I do think we need to figure out something when 47 states are essentially decided 7 months out, simply due to the number of people who are solid red or solid blue, candidates be damned

Trump tops Biden by 2 points in new Florida poll | The Hill

 (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4620441-trump-tops-biden-by-just-two-points-in-new-florida-poll/)Polls at this point are, well too early, in my view, to conclude much of anything.  Even massive leads dissipate.  Joltin' Joe apparently has been closing gaps of late.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2024, 12:34:37 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on Today at 12:05:17 PM

Trump tops Biden by 2 points in new Florida poll | The Hill

 (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4620441-trump-tops-biden-by-just-two-points-in-new-florida-poll/)Polls at this point are, well too early, in my view, to conclude much of anything.  Even massive leads dissipate.  Joltin' Joe apparently has been closing gaps of late.

I call BS on that poll.

Governor DeSantis won by 20% in 2022. Florida is solidly red.

Joltin' Joe is campaigning (not from his basement!) while Joltin' Joe's DOJ and NY puppets are keeping his opponent in courts.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: longhorn320 on April 25, 2024, 12:41:47 PM

Quote from: 847badgerfan on Today at 12:34:37 PM

I call BS on that poll.

Governor DeSantis won by 20% in 2022. Florida is solidly red.

Joltin' Joe is campaigning (not from his basement!) while Joltin' Joe's DOJ and NY puppets are keeping his opponent in courts.

true democracy at work

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2024, 12:47:33 PM

Folks nearly always call BS on a poll they don't like.

It's just a poll, the topic is about poll numbers.  The point is poll numbers can bounce all over the place.  So, the "three states" in play in the post might change completely by November.

(I don't get riled by ANY poll, no matter what it says.  Is it BS?  Maybe, maybe not, it doesn't matter to me, and certainly not in April.)

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2024, 01:13:06 PM

I draw no ire. I just know it's bunk. I know my new state, just like I knew my old one.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: GopherRock on April 25, 2024, 01:33:39 PM

Polling in April of 2022 also said that Republicans would gain 40 or more seats in the House, and we all know how that turned out.

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2024, 01:45:48 PM

https://thehill.com/latino/4618409-immigration-advocates-asylum-work-permits-bidens-border/

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2024, 01:50:20 PM

2022 turned out very bad for conservatives, obviously.

Abortion (which should not be a political issue).

Democrats could have codified it under Carter when they had a supermajority in the Senate.

Same goes with Obama from 2008-2010.

They had their chance. But they would have little else to run on now, would they?

Title: Re: In other news ...
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2024, 04:31:18 PM

Images: Next Portman tower reaches max height over Midtown | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/1020-spring-portman-midtown-tower-tops-out-images)

A new office tower, probably the last thing needed around here.  Apartments I can see, OK fine, but office space?